# Mini Keg Discussion / Mods / Show Off - Dedicated Thread



## Zorco

We Aussie Home Brewers have certainly found our fancy of the little shiny Mini Kegs

Post pictures of your new rigs, ask a question of the community or come to discuss your problems.

Also share your excellent finds for handy modifications and customisations.


We are surrounded by the skilled, the experienced and the creative. On top of that, our supplier is a community member and will support us with problems right here...


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## Coldspace

Well early days for me..
But I recon the only way to fill these is what I did on Saturday before BBQ .

Purge with co2 , presurise to 15 psi at my main keezer. Sit on ground or table . Pressurise main keg. Don't have to move it at all.
Plug transfer jumper lead into mini out post and main keg out post.
Leave co2 on at 15 psi on main keg.
Use my pressure release spunding valve, 30 bucks from keg king but I already had one for my kegmenter.
Lock it on the gas post of the mini. Adjust back to approx 10 psi, beer transfers perfectly, takes about 5 mins maintains pressure and perfect carbonation. 
You can watch the condensation line creep up on the mini,
Once at top un click away you go.
No mess, no waste, perfect transfer. 

Easy as. Love these minis.

Been hassled next weekend to take them to a friends BBQ , I better start brewing faster this summer, lucky i got a kegmenter to help me out and bulk buys to keep the wallet in check

And a bracelet for missus birthday last week to keep the divorce lawyers away lol....


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## goatchop41

For those without a spunding valve, I assume this method will do the job?

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/16907-keg-transfer-made-easy/


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## Coldspace

I'm sure that would work fine. I used to do that with my 9 ltr kegs when I needed beer to take to bbqs from my main keg.

The problem is that sometimes when I lifted the big keg out it would stir a little sediment from the bottom.

With the spunding valve, no need to move main keg, and if you got a bad back this is handy.

But this method would work fine, so would a growler filler tube to bottom, fill like growler, seal and add abit of head pressure .


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## malt junkie

I have flow control tap, so I fill slowly with a silicone hose from the tap, and mini keg pre purged. I then cap and gas to 200 kpa, test if too low on carb skake.


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## EalingDrop

I'm talking to ikegger about those balland keg.com floats to fit our kegs. Currently they're too big to fit.

http://www.ibrew.com.au/products/keg-level-indicator-ballandkeg

These would work well for filling as well. At $26 , it's a bit of an overkill but we're brewers afterall. ..


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## micbrew

easier to just use scales or feel the temp of the keg.


just my 2c


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## EalingDrop

Fair enough.

I found it a bit tedious interrupting the fill as you get closer to the top, weighing several times towards the end to prevent over flow.
The condensation method is cool, but hard to read accurately, and it rules out anyone who aren't fortunate enough to cold crash before bottling.

In the end, I do it by sight.

As mentioned earlier, it also serves to monitor how much beer is left. 

Hopeful that our resident geniuses here can come up with a hack for the float idea.

I came across this:

52mm Magnetic Stainless Steel Float Ball For liquid level measurements

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/331527399735?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


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## Yob

if you tare the keg on the scales, you can VERY accurately measure how full it is.. 

its really not that hard a process even without scales... you can just look in the top


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## Batz

Yob said:


> its really not that hard a process even without scales... you can just look in the top


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## Zorco

I was walking down the road......


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## EalingDrop

:lol:

Thats what I ended up doing in the end as mentioned earlier (by sight).
Honestly though, it was harder in a dark basement bottling a Dunkleweizen. :blink: . There was a fair bit of horsing around...

The main thing was monitoring whats left (in a cool way to show off to the mates) :super:


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## goatchop41

EalingDrop said:


> The main thing was monitoring whats left (in a cool way to show off to the mates) :super:


Weigh the mini keg while empty with all bits and pieces attached (head unit + tap + reg + bulb). Then subtract that from total weight when beer is in it....obvious and easy, just not as 'cool'


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## Dae Tripper

Really odd there is no pictures in the show off thread. Pics people!


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## TJP

On a little bit of a tangent but related to the mini kegs, I am just getting back into brewing after more than a decade, I originally only did a few batch's but got over bottling. I don't really drink enough to justify running a second dedicated fridge at the moment so I had thought of using a hacked tapking set up but didn't collect enough bottles when they were available so I have thought of doing a similar setup with the mini kegs to this, with a soda stream bottle for the co2 but a few things I'm not sure about though are
1) would this be okay to lay horizontally.
2) I would only be using 1 keg at a time in the fridge? could I just force carb the other kegs and then use them when needed, would It be possible/better to maybe just get a corny for the brew and then transfer to a mini keg as needed? 
3) I' m assuming that after force carbing the keg it would need to be left under pressure? this would probably be harder with the mini kegs
4) Anything else I am missing/should be considering.


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## Kingy

I transferred from my chilled fermenter just like I do with my normal kegs. Forced carbed that day. Had 2 schooners to sample. Put in keezer hooked up to gas at 12-14psi with my cornys until the next day. Vented pressure , Hooked up co2 reg and bulb,Then went halves with the misses in it. A good arvo was had.
Edit: not hard to guess when it's near full if ya put your finger on the side of the keg you can feel the coldness rising.


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## EalingDrop

Found this to work quite well.
Using a old film case (which is HDPE conveniently).
A couple of magnets.


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## peteru

There you go! I never thought I'd have a reason to pull out the good old SLR and use the last roll of 36 exposure film stuck in the back of the fridge.


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## mmmyummybeer

Does stickering count as a mod.


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## bevan

Has anyone had any issues with the beer out disconnects (black one). Other than the ones supplied (which have "keg king" on them) I can't get the cheap ones I've got from my LBS to go on. No problems getting them on my corny kegs.


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## malt junkie

mmmyummybeer said:


> Does stickering count as a mod.


only when it looks that damn sexy!

Reminder bring some merch to the swap, I'll bring my wallet, need a new hat!


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## peteru

bevan said:


> Has anyone had any issues with the beer out disconnects (black one). Other than the ones supplied (which have "keg king" on them) I can't get the cheap ones I've got from my LBS to go on. No problems getting them on my corny kegs.


I'm using a stainless steel Keg King disconnect (90 degree) and have had no issue.


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## Mardoo

Man, these things work great if you get the disconnects on the right posts! Derp...

And I'm in for some Bandicoot swag too if it comes along.


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## Batz

peteru said:


> I'm using a stainless steel Keg King disconnect (90 degree) and have had no issue.



I like the look of these, they would keep the tap at the correct angle. I have heard people having issues with them, like the lock-in balls rusting? That's the main reason I haven't bought them.
So you are finding them OK?


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## peteru

The one on the mini keg is about a week old, so too early to tell. I have three pairs of these disconnects inside the KK4 and those are about 6 months old. I have taken the three beer disconnects apart for cleaning and lubrication about a month ago. I did this because two of them were getting harder to put on / take off. There were no visible issues anywhere and once they were lubed and put back, they are easy to work again.

If you do end up using one of these disconnects on the 5L minikeg, you'll find that the supplied tap sits nice and low and the end of the spout reaches just past the end of the rim. Pretty much exactly far enough so that any tap drips run down the side of the minikeg.

I'm now seriously contemplating one of those inline flow control adaptors that fit behind the tap. It should make the tap reach just that little bit further so that any drips clear the keg.

Got to keep that bling shiny! It certainly looks a lot smarter with the black disconnect replaced by a metal one. The grey gas disconnect looks fine.


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## trhr

yummybear: Stickers look great, they're transparent?

This is how I transfer since I don't have a spunding valve. Just use a ball or needle valve to let out a bit of pressure for flow.




The keg was blocked from a dry hop, so that's why its on it's side and I'm transferring out of the gas post.
Another great use for our mini-kegs, transferring the last of a blocked keg.


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## Zorco

Nice one mate!


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## Zorco

DP


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## Dan Pratt

Redman9 said:


> yummybear: Stickers look great, they're transparent?
> 
> This is how I transfer since I don't have a spunding valve. Just use a ball or needle valve to let out a bit of pressure for flow.
> 20160705_150302 (Medium).jpg
> 
> The keg was blocked from a dry hop, so that's why its on it's side and I'm transferring out of the gas post.
> Another great use for our mini-kegs, transferring the last of a blocked keg.


To prevent blockages, release the pressure, take the poppet out of the post and the pin out of the disconnect and it will flow no worries.

I dry hop around 100g into a corny keg and after 3 days pressure transfer to the serving keg using no poppets and pins, I run the first bit with hop debris into a jug, back off the pressure then connect and no worries.


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## Zorco

Pin out of the disconnect? I've got to figure out how to do that


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## Dan Pratt

^ ^ the top of the disconnect has a spot to fit a big flathead screwdriver, you can just undo it and the pin/spring will pop out then just screw it back in. There is a oring as well that needs to stay on to seal it up.


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## Batz

I took peteru's advise and tried the K.K. 90 Deg. disconnect. So much better than having the tap on some stupid angle. :super:

mmmyummybeer said personalized stickers on the kegs were the go as well.

Just need beer to put into them, just a few days........


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## Coldspace

Hey Batz,
Looks great. Thanks for the font today really impressed, can't wait to kit out my set up this weekend and the beers at the Bonsai brewery were great. Matt deff knows how to brew. Great to see someone giving it a red hot go , I will deff be dropping back into there for a few next time we pass that way. Your property was really tranquil.... Now I'm back down to the rat race....

And yes, I will save a nice spot somewhere to put your sticker
Cheers mate


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## Batz

Coldspace said:


> Hey Batz,
> Looks great. Thanks for the font today really impressed, can't wait to kit out my set up this weekend and the beers at the Bonsai brewery were great. Matt deff knows how to brew. Great to see someone giving it a red hot go , I will deff be dropping back into there for a few next time we pass that way. Your property was really tranquil.... Now I'm back down to the rat race....
> 
> And yes, I will save a nice spot somewhere to put your sticker
> Cheers mate


Great to meet you and have a few beers Matt. Lets do it again soon. :drinks:


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## Yob

Batz said:


> I took peteru's advise and tried the K.K. 90 Deg. disconnect. So much better than having the tap on some stupid angle. :super:
> 
> mmmyummybeer said personalized stickers on the kegs were the go as well.
> 
> Just need beer to put into them, just a few days........


Gold... :kooi:


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## mb-squared

bevan said:


> Has anyone had any issues with the beer out disconnects (black one). Other than the ones supplied (which have "keg king" on them) I can't get the cheap ones I've got from my LBS to go on. No problems getting them on my corny kegs.


yes, me too but my liquid disconnects are not cheapies. they fit all my cornies no probs, but will not fit the mini kegs at all. I guess I'll have to get some 'special' ones to fit the minis


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## Kingy

So I forced carbed an ordinary bitter and forgot to vent the pressure before hooking up the regulater and pretty sure it's fucked. As no pressure is getting through (changed canister just in case and it iced up when I undone it.). So to keep me and the misses entertained I had to use my big bottle for the arvo. 



A few of these in a bigger esky with through wall tap kits with a smaller gas bottle would be pretty good I reckon.


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## SBOB

>So to keep me and the misses entertained I

thats some decent entertainment


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## Batz

Kingy said:


> So I forced carbed an ordinary bitter and forgot to vent the pressure before hooking up the regulater and pretty sure it's fucked. As no pressure is getting through (changed canister just in case and it iced up when I undone it.). So to keep me and the misses entertained I had to use my big bottle for the arvo.
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1479534338.912860.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1479534375.454103.jpg
> 
> A few of these in a bigger esky with through wall tap kits with a smaller gas bottle would be pretty good I reckon.


Before you chuck it, you want to send it to me to have a look at? No charge if I can fix it.


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## Kingy

Haha I've got a box full of broken things that I'm gunna fix one day.


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## goatchop41

My setup for first use at a friend's place - mini keg in a cooler bag with ice packs around it. Worked a treat! Only problem is that 5L doesn't last as long as I thought!

Also, while we're talking about pimping them with stickers......


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## Yob

Nice, where'd you get the pl decal?


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## goatchop41

My brothers and a friend got them from the PL guys at Bendigo On the Hop.
I'm assuming that they got them for themselves, as they didn't mention them to me. But then they left them in my car....so I'm taking that as a fair exchange, seeing as though I put all of them up for the night here!


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## mmmyummybeer

malt junkie said:


> only when it looks that damn sexy!
> 
> Reminder bring some merch to the swap, I'll bring my wallet, need a new hat!


No worries, will do


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## mmmyummybeer

Redman9 said:


> yummybear: Stickers look great, they're transparent?
> 
> This is how I transfer since I don't have a spunding valve. Just use a ball or needle valve to let out a bit of pressure for flow.
> 
> 
> 
> 20160705_150302 (Medium).jpg
> 
> The keg was blocked from a dry hop, so that's why its on it's side and I'm transferring out of the gas post.
> Another great use for our mini-kegs, transferring the last of a blocked keg.


Yeah the stickers are transparent, they are printed on clear. We did some on white and the last ones on clear. I think I like the clear ones better as the colours come out more metallic on the kegs.


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## mmmyummybeer

Mardoo said:


> Man, these things work great if you get the disconnects on the right posts! Derp...
> 
> And I'm in for some Bandicoot swag too if it comes along.


No worries Mardoo. Will bring plenty along.


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## mtb

Anyone know of a cheap source of the double ball lock heads?
By that I mean these;





I can pick one up from iKegger for $60 but I guess after the bulk buy I have a taste for bargains and can't help but look for something cheaper.


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## Yob

mtb said:


> I can pick one up from iKegger for $60 but I guess after the bulk buy I have a taste for bargains and can't help but look for something cheaper.


why not go to our supplier?

He's the dude that came to the party and I'd support his business over ikegger any day..

*ed: Im sure he'll play nice if you contact him as a party to the BB to do follow on custom..



**ED: Ive said it before, ikegger were given the opportunity to quote for us and blatantly threw the racket at me/us, Mark gave a very good option and therefore won the gig and has done, in my book, exceptionally well in it. I'd happily give the guy any further runs we do, as far as I'm concerned he's our mini keg supplier. I feel weve been well looked after and if anyone wants to discuss the difference in the quotes, I'm happy to look them up again, but we saved big time with the deal we got... yes, Im biased, but I saw the numbers from the beginning and had even got quotes from OS to supply and import myself.. by FAR.. ATHB wins my custom hands down.. I'd urge anyone that was a part of the buy, or not, to continue to support him. He is one of us now. ikegger (bah, how the **** can you even name a business that) arent here or do they support us.

mini keg rant over.. :lol:


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## bevan

mtb said:


> Anyone know of a cheap source of the double ball lock heads?
> By that I mean these;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can pick one up from iKegger for $60 but I guess after the bulk buy I have a taste for bargains and can't help but look for something cheaper.


Have you tried ATHB (mark) who supplied the BB? Id give him a call. I called after the BB closed and he was happy to add to my original order for the same price as the BB.

Edit: just realised Yob just beat to the punch[emoji482]


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## Zorco

I think mtb is just being resourceful, not pro or anti supplier.

Mate, I'm interested in some more kit as well, let's get in touch and see what mark can arrange. I'll start a PM with you and Mark after I help one of my kids get back to sleep.


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## TJP

mtb said:


> Anyone know of a cheap source of the double ball lock heads?


I would be interested as well, haven't purchased mini kegs yet, but these are the heads I want.


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## mtb

Why did I not immediately think ATHB... thanks Yob for the shoutout.

Alright let's get on it. I'm in for two BL heads.

Separately - TJP - I really don't need three 5L minikegs, if you'd like one for $50 plus postage from Canberra then PM me. Then all you need is a BL head.


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## Kingy

Is this the start of a bulk buy. I'll take another head to.


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## Yob

Oh dear...


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## madpierre06

Yob said:


> Oh dear...


Like you didn't expect something like this was gonna happen.


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## Zorco

Pfft, wont be anything significant this close to Christmas. Just filling the gaps in our equipment.


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## Batz

Two more 5tl tanks please.


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## malt junkie

Hell I thought ATHB could do with a break at least till Feb before MKIII started up! :huh:


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## bevan

Thought I'd get it started

Heads

Bevan x1
Kingy x 1
mtb x 2

Pack of Bulbs

Bevan x1

5L tanks

Batz x 2 (spare tank)

Edit: probably should have started this over on the BB page


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## Zorco

Yeah, no more derailing this thread.... I'll set one up. But action is actually in a PM with ATHB. In any case, move over to the new BB thread in a tic and we'll take it from there.


Edit:

Over here http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/93197-mini-keg-bulk-buy-mkiii/


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## Jamesco

I just wanted to shout out for ATHB as our local supplier. I had a leaky keg and within 3 days had a replacememt keg at my front door. Cant beat that service. For that reason alone I wouldnt buy anywhere else.

On a seperate and more ontopic note, Im rigging up a 300micron ss filter for my 5L keg so I can dry hop directly in the keg. Fresh keg hopped beer incoming..


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## bingggo

Are there any issues with storing one of these kegs sideways in the fridge with the ball lock head. I'm thinking of taking it out when I need a glass, then repressurising from my main co2 cylinder before returning to the fridge.

Cheers.


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## TJP

bingggo said:


> Are there any issues with storing one of these kegs sideways in the fridge with the ball lock head. I'm thinking of taking it out when I need a glass, then repressurising from my main co2 cylinder before returning to the fridge.



I am planning a double ball lock head, picnic tap, a sodeatream bottle and one of these https://www.co2art.co.uk/products/advance-adapter-for-sodastream-cylinder-to-use-with-standard-aquarium-co2-regulators plus one of these https://www.ikegger.com/collections/accessories/products/full-size-co2-bottle-adaptor-for-professional-mini-regulator and that should save having to remove the keg every time to pour and then re-gass it.


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## GoodDuck

Having had some spillage due to accidental bumping of the tap handle - does anyone (Yob) have any more information on the spring loading of these taps?


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## bevan

GoodDuck said:


> Having had some spillage due to accidental bumping of the tap handle - does anyone (Yob) have any more information on the spring loading of these taps?


I just did the rubber band trick which seems to work.


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## Yob

what I was told was that you can place a spring between the screw connection to the disconnect and the back of the tap, if its pulled apart you can easily see where this will go..

sorry, I dont have pictures and I suspect there is a bit of ******* about to get the right size SS spring too.


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## mofox1

Yob said:


> what I was told was that you can place a spring between the screw connection to the disconnect and the back of the tap, if its pulled apart you can easily see where this will go..
> 
> sorry, I dont have pictures and I suspect there is a bit of ******* about to get the right size SS spring too.


There was a hbt thread that described this, also mentioned the effin about to get the right spring. Don't have the link handy though.


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## peteru

Yeah, that's how the autoclose springs work, they push the shuttle on one side and the collar/shank on the other side. The tricky part is finding the right spring. You need to get the diameter, length and stiffness right for it to work well. I was hoping that Yob might have a tip on where to find the right spring. The standard Intertap spring is too long.


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## sp0rk

peteru said:


> Yeah, that's how the autoclose springs work, they push the shuttle on one side and the collar/shank on the other side. The tricky part is finding the right spring. You need to get the diameter, length and stiffness right for it to work well. I was hoping that Yob might have a tip on where to find the right spring. The standard Intertap spring is too long.


If it's the right diameter and stiffness, it's nothing a dremel with a cutting wheel can't fix


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## malt junkie

side cuters so much simpler.


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## sp0rk

They are, but I'm thinking the end would possibly need to be flattened/smoothed so there's nothing stabbing into seals or whatnot


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## peteru

I'd have to have a spare first, which I don't.


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## nic0

I haven't got around to cutting the silicon tubing for the dip tube yet What's the optimal length?


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## mtb

Sounds like we need some sort of bulk purchase option for custom-made springs from overseas, for the AHB community


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## micbrew

dam springtime is nearly over


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## sp0rk

mtb said:


> Sounds like we need some sort of bulk purchase option for custom-made springs from overseas, for the AHB community


Plenty of springmakers in Aus


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## sp0rk

micbrew said:


> dam springtime is nearly over


Shutup dad


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## Yob

nic0 said:


> I haven't got around to cutting the silicon tubing for the dip tube yet What's the optimal length?


Just short of the bottom...

Depends of which tank eh? 2,4 or 5?


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## Lethaldog

peteru said:


> Yeah, that's how the autoclose springs work, they push the shuttle on one side and the collar/shank on the other side. The tricky part is finding the right spring. You need to get the diameter, length and stiffness right for it to work well. I was hoping that Yob might have a tip on where to find the right spring. The standard Intertap spring is too long.


im going to a company tomorrow that specializes in springs , I'll take a tap and get it fitted properly and let you know how I go, if I can get the right ones I'll post the dimensions so you can all source the right ones!


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## Mardoo

You ******* rock, mate.


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## Lethaldog

Ok I went down the spring joint and it wasn't quite as expected but I got there in the end, I ended up with a spring that's 20mm long and 10mm wide and it's a fairly solid little spring but works a treat just don't go too light, put it round the back of the tap then screw on the rest and bobs your uncle, I'm still not sure about photos but if someone in the know wants to pm me their number I'm happy to txt a photo through so you can post it !


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## sp0rk

This is fairly close to those measurements (just in imperial)
https://www.bunnings.com.au/century-spring-3-8-x-3-4-compression-spring_p3969320


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## crowmanz

Cheeky peak also has this one which will likely fit https://www.cheekypeakbrewery.com.au/304ss-auto-close-tap-spring.html


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## sp0rk

crowmanz said:


> Cheeky peak also has this one which will likely fit https://www.cheekypeakbrewery.com.au/304ss-auto-close-tap-spring.html


I think it'll most likely be too long
The one lethaldog found is only 20mm long, that Intertap one looks to be around 40-50mm long (plus it's tapered)


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## Lethaldog

crowmanz said:


> Cheeky peak also has this one which will likely fit https://www.cheekypeakbrewery.com.au/304ss-auto-close-tap-spring.html


they would be good for say a fridge door tap as the shanks are deeper, on the mini kegs though they are fairly shallow 20mm is good but could even be a few mm shorter but I tried one in my fridge door tap and it was nowhere near long enough!


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## crowmanz

sp0rk said:


> I think it'll most likely be too long
> The one lethaldog found is only 20mm long, that Intertap one looks to be around 40-50mm long (plus it's tapered)


Your right it is the intertap spring, which will be too long. I thought it was the same spring in they had in their self closing brumby kit (which I cant find on their updated site) that my old man has, pretty sure the spring on that kit was 20mm.


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## SBOB

hoping someone can offer some ideas on whats wrong with one of my mini regs i got from the group buy

I got two full kits, so I have two mini regs

One I have used once before, to serve a 2 litre keg and then turned to the off position and put away until today when I went to use it with my 5l keg and it didnt work

When disconnected from the ball lock quick-connect, turning it on results in a rather weak barely flowing stream of CO2. This happens with a new bulb also so its not a lack of co2.
On my other reg which I got out to compare, the flow out of reg is present and clearly working


Is there something in the reg that would cause it to barely flow? If i put my finger over the outlet, the pressure rises but with no restriction the flow is pretty much zero (and therefore it wont pressurise the mini keg or pour beer)


Any tips would be good, as having only used it once thats a pretty short life


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## Batz

Sounds like when you screw in down the diaphragm is not being depressed. There must be a pin that that knob pushes down on, perhaps it has become dislodged.

I haven't had the need to open one up as yet, and hope I get more than one serving before I have too. 

Best of luck with it.

Batz


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## Zorco

Hi mate, I was looking into this as well. What it ended up being was the bulb wasn't screwed in tight enough. There was choke flow of the gas from the cylinder. See if that helps.

Try tightening up the bush as well so the barb pushes deeper into the cylinder


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## Coldspace

Zorco said:


> Hi mate, I was looking into this as well. What it ended up being was the bulb wasn't screwed in tight enough. There was choke flow of the gas from the cylinder. See if that helps.
> Try tightening up the bush as well so the barb pushes deeper into the cylinder


And also screw bulb in fast towards the end to get a clean deep penetration...

Does that sound like something you see in a porno lol.

I have been using another mini reg for past year on my 9 ltrs kegs and found on occasion this. Screwed on tight and fast seems better...


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## SBOB

Zorco said:


> Hi mate, I was looking into this as well. What it ended up being was the bulb wasn't screwed in tight enough. There was choke flow of the gas from the cylinder. See if that helps.
> 
> Try tightening up the bush as well so the barb pushes deeper into the cylinder


yeah, tried both of those... couple of bulbs down and neither made a difference

one just seems to have a big restriction in it, while the other flows properly


any idea how to pull these apart, or whether its possible?


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## SBOB

Coldspace said:


> And also screw bulb in fast towards then end to get a clean penetration...
> 
> Does that sound like something you see in a porno lol.


dont think thats the issue
both regs seem to make the same size whole in both bulbs, and both bulbs spew a bunch of co2 when i take them off to compare



bit annoyed, as this was my first public use of the setup at work (and only the second time i have used it) and the reg wasnt working...
Its not the same pouring from the mini keg as it is through the tap


----------



## Zorco

Warranty...

Just thinking, is there a particle of something in the barb's hole?

No idea about disassembly but Mark will sort you out. I know the public embarrassment thing... but that had nothing to do with mini kegs[emoji14]


----------



## SBOB

Zorco said:


> Warranty...
> 
> Just thinking, is there a particle of something in the barb's hole?
> 
> No idea about disassembly but Mark will sort you out. I know the public embarrassment thing... but that had nothing to do with mini kegs[emoji14]


yeah, the Munich lager was only passable 

Is there a wiki/post somewhere with his contact details?


----------



## Zorco

Google all things home brew. The email is [email protected] just on the phone sorry mate otherwise would have found it.


----------



## SBOB

Zorco said:


> Google all things home brew. The email is [email protected] just on the phone sorry mate otherwise would have found it.


no problem...
email sent, hopefully its an easy fix or issue to sort out


----------



## peteru

Autoclose solved by a trip to Bunnings. The packet contains two springs. Tested "dry" and it works great. Haven't poured a beer through it yet, but I can't see why it would not work.


----------



## trhr

peteru said:


> Autoclose solved by a trip to Bunnings. The packet contains two springs. Tested "dry" and it works great. Haven't poured a beer through it yet, but I can't see why it would not work.
> 
> minikeg_autocolose_spring.jpg


The only problem is that is a zinc coated steel spring, it'll rust up nicely and I also wouldn't want zinc coated steel in something you drink out of.

I could get a bulk price for say a 100 of ss 304 springs if there was enough interest? Maybe chuck them in with zorcos extras BB?


----------



## Lethaldog

Redman9 said:


> The only problem is that is a zinc coated steel spring, it'll rust up nicely and I also wouldn't want zinc coated steel in something you drink out of.
> 
> I could get a bulk price for say a 100 of ss 304 springs if there was enough interest? Maybe chuck them in with zorcos extras BB?


the ones I got were stainless, does bunnings have stainless ones?


----------



## Zorco

I heard you loose 2/3 of your body's zinc content each ejaculation.

Peteru is simply being efficient.


----------



## Lethaldog

Zorco said:


> I heard you loose 2/3 of your body's zinc content each ejaculation.
> 
> Peteru is simply being efficient.


thought my socks were looking shiny[emoji3]


----------



## GoodDuck

Well then, I don't need to buy any zinc cream sunblock anytime soon.


----------



## peteru

I'll give the zinc supplement a good go. Of course, if someone can come up with a better alternative that is cost effective, I'm all ears, but for now, I'll just go with what I've got...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiHdpAVIHgo


----------



## Lethaldog

Noobie mini kegger mistake today, filled her up, burped with co2, all good till I realized I'd screwed the head on and forgotten to attach the dip tube [emoji51][emoji51] not a big one but annoying enough[emoji23][emoji23]


----------



## TJP

I think I have found an alternate (to the $29 shipped from ikegger) source of adapters to go from a standard co2 bottle to the mini regulators but need confirmation on thread size for the mini regulator, from what I have read they take both 16g and 74g bulbs but I believe these to be two different threads (3/8 and 5/8). Do they come with an adapter to fit one or the other? if so what would be the better thread to connect to the mini regulator, the 16g/3/8" or the 74g/5/8" ?


----------



## Zorco

Cool mate, I don't know but I bet someone does


----------



## mattyg8

Did anyone manage to find a spring that fits?

I've just been using a rubber band to help from accidental knocks


----------



## mtb

TJP said:


> I think I have found an alternate (to the $29 shipped from ikegger) source of adapters to go from a standard co2 bottle to the mini regulators but need confirmation on thread size for the mini regulator, from what I have read they take both 16g and 74g bulbs but I believe these to be two different threads (3/8 and 5/8). Do they come with an adapter to fit one or the other? if so what would be the better thread to connect to the mini regulator, the 16g/3/8" or the 74g/5/8" ?


Correct, two different thread sizes. There's a little adapter that should've come with your kit. I shamelessly plagiarised the below from EalingDrop's post in the MKII bulk buy thread which may help;


----------



## Zorco

Perfection


----------



## mtb

Zorco said:


> Perfection


Why yes Zorco, with my own two hands


----------



## TJP

mtb said:


> Correct, two different thread sizes. There's a little adapter that should've come with your kit. I shamelessly plagiarised the below from EalingDrop's post in the MKII bulk buy thread which may help;


Thanks, that's exactly what I was after. I haven't got mine (regulator) yet, it's coming in MKIII (or maybe it's MK2.5.) I had initially thought about using the soda stream bottle horizontally like I plan to with the mini keg but then realised it would kill the regulator, so now thinking of a more squat paintball bottle or maybe one with an anti syphon tube but not sure that would 100% save the regulator. I might even undo the valve on the SodaStream bottle and see if I could put an anti syphon tube in there as I already have the bottle.

The good news is the supplier on Alibaba has SodaStream(Aus), paintball and normal co2 bottle adapters to 5/8 for the mini regs.


----------



## Mardoo

Hey there, I've been filling my mini kegs and just leaving them in my fridge as a convenient indoor dispense option. However, I'm finding that after a week or so the beers get a metallic taste which is very similar to the flavour beers pasteurised in the bottle get - that kind of coppery, bottle-y taste, or just plain metallic. I don't get this flavour from my normal kegs when the beer sits in there for months. As I recall from my Whip-Its days (all four or so of them before I recognised the massive brain-cell death per experience), gas from this type of cartridge has a metallic flavour. Do you reckon it's the gas from the cartridges that is giving this flavour? Anyone else experiencing this?

There's zero flavour degradation when the beer is left in the original corny keg, gassed from my main 6kg cylinder. The flavour doesn't come on until a week or so after the beer has been transferred to the mini keg. The mini kegs are gassed from my main cylinder, bled, and gassed again before filling, just like for my normal kegs. Based on the flavour stability in the corny keg I'm confident it's not brewing or fermenting process. I've checked pressure-level stability and the mini-kegs hold 10psi for a couple weeks with no sign of loss. I'm confident it's not that they're gassing out and oxidation is starting. My beer transfer process into the mini keg is the same as my transfer process into the corny. The cartridge gas is the only thing I can come up with.

BTW, I don't leave the gas cartridges connected (hence the pressure-holding tests I mentioned). I only connect the cartridges when serving to ensure the gas level remains correct without leakage.

Any input, experiences or other ideas?

BTW, I stopped smoking crack years ago, so I'm not just smoking crack


----------



## mtb

Meth?


----------



## Mardoo

No, speed was never actually my thing. I don't seek to feel uncomfortable in my own skin.


----------



## Coldspace

Not sure , I've been filling mine on the day or day before use with no issues yet.

I've just filled one 5 ltr today after filling 2 cornies with my latest lager all pressure fermented and pressure filtered/ transferred from a 45 ltr batch from my kegmenter.
I won't be drinking these beers till next weekend, so I'll try a glass from 6 days in mini keg and one out if cornie to see if I see a diff...


----------



## Mardoo

Excellent, cheers. Yeah, I've filled and emptied a keg on the same day, and no flavour change whatsoever. It seem to become noticeable after a week or so.


----------



## technobabble66

Mardoo said:


> Hey there, I've been filling my mini kegs and just leaving them in my fridge as a convenient indoor dispense option. However, I'm finding that after a week or so the beers get a metallic taste which is very similar to the flavour beers pasteurised in the bottle get - that kind of coppery, bottle-y taste, or just plain metallic. I don't get this flavour from my normal kegs ...
> ... or other ideas?
> 
> BTW, I stopped smoking crack years ago, so I'm not just smoking crack


Fwiw, I found the kegs (& maybe the reg) had a slightly metallic aroma & flavour, maybe from a tiny amount of residual oil, etc. I found that using a brewing-appropriate detergent (from Brewcraft?) then hitting it with sod perc fixed it right up. So I'd suspect residue from the manufacturing process is the culprit. 
I think your CO2 bulbs will be fine. 

Good to hear it's not just the crack talking.


----------



## Mardoo

Yeah, I just now ran Boddington's Best's PBW clone through the taps. I had previously just run Starsanthrough , although I had cleaned the kegs with both hot Tricleanium and hot PBW clone, then Starsan, before ever putting anything in them.

Not quite sure how I'd clean a reg...is such a thing possible, or even necessary?


----------



## Batz

Jump in quick, on special for the next 20 minutes.

Fits a soda steam and the mini regulators.

https://www.ikegger.com/collections/sale-collection/products/soda-stream-adapter-for-professional-mini-regulator


----------



## crowmanz

They also have the mini reg to full bottle adapter on special

https://www.ikegger.com/collections/accessories/products/full-size-co2-bottle-adaptor-for-professional-mini-regulator


----------



## bingggo

Mardoo said:


> There's zero flavour degradation when the beer is left in the original corny keg, gassed from my main 6kg cylinder. The flavour doesn't come on until a week or so after the beer has been transferred to the mini keg.


Could this be from the brumby tap, if you use one? I read on ikegger that they recommend cleaning their brumby taps every week to avoid a flavour impact.


----------



## Mardoo

Thanks for the response. I use the Brumby that came with the mini-keg. I clean it every time I use it. Maybe I'll give my pluto gun a try with one of the metallic-tasting kegs and see whether the flavour is still there.


----------



## Lyrebird_Cycles

I used mine for the first time today and I'm a little disappointed.

Typical Chinese manufacturing issues, the threads on the keg weren't cut cleanly so there was a long sliver of stainless that was partially detached, I had to chase the threads by hand to get rid of this.

The two posts are slightly too close together so the fittings interfere, this can cause a small leak from the outlet fitting.

The above is probably exacerbated by the internal O rings in the posts being silghtly oversize so they don't seat well.

Overall a useable but far less than perfect bit of kit, I guess you get what you pay for.


----------



## Yob

I also note the poor finish, had the burrs etc.. totes agree that as a manufacturer, I'd have to make sure the product is as ready to go as possible and thread burrs is just sloppy.. I suspect par for the course though regardless of the supplier.

not noticed the disconnects touching though but at home I mostly use stainless disconnects and dont have the issue as they are a bit thinner.

didnt notice it last weekend in an 'outdoor' setting, but I was probably too pissed to notice.

I can see where your coming from LB, particularly with the attention to detail you give projects, overall I think they are pretty minor though and not without easy solution..

Im pretty chuffed with the little beasties.. though I did note the 5L doesnt hold 5L by weight, slightly less when I was filling the RIS keg and I can tell you 5kg was overflowing


----------



## Kingy

The finish doesn't bother me, it works good [emoji4] here I go again


----------



## SBOB

Kingy said:


> The finish doesn't bother me, it works good [emoji4] here I go again
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1481329166.563776.jpg


whats the point off the gas line there?

I've been pulling the PRV progressively when doing keg to keg transfers.. similar concept?


----------



## bevan

Looks like a valve/tap on it to manually regulate the flow into the minkeg


----------



## Kingy

Yea same as pulling the relief valve but with a bit more control. I vent and pressurise my mini keg to 8psi then hook my jumper cable up to my cornies which are at 10psi. Then just crack the inline valve until I get a slow steady flow.
Edit: gotta have the mini keg at a lower pressure than the corny or the mini keg will blast c02 into the corny disturbing the beer


----------



## Zorco

Kingy said:


> The finish doesn't bother me, it works good [emoji4] here I go again
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1481329166.563776.jpg


Ooooooooooo,

That frosting!!!!

[emoji11]


----------



## Lyrebird_Cycles

Yob said:


> not noticed the disconnects touching though but at home I mostly use stainless disconnects and dont have the issue as they are a bit thinner.


That's a good tip, thanks. Mine leaks slightly if the dispense tap is left connected, I think this is due to the interference as above. I'll try to find an appropriate SS fitting and see if that solves the problem.

I should make it clear these are minor issues and as I said, fairly typical of Chinese sourced product.


----------



## Batz

Lyrebird_Cycles said:


> That's a good tip, thanks. Mine leaks slightly if the dispense tap is left connected, I think this is due to the interference as above. I'll try to find an appropriate SS fitting and see if that solves the problem.
> 
> I should make it clear these are minor issues and as I said, fairly typical of Chinese sourced product.


I noticed the disconnects just touched on one keg, was not a problem.
Since I have changed the beer out to a stainless fitting, and these are 90deg. so the tap sits at the correct angle as well. Plenty of room between the disconnects now.


----------



## Kingy

Bohemian pilsner 5.4% at carols by candlelight with a bronco tap 
LG


----------



## LAGERFRENZY

Fala la la, la la la la


----------



## Lyrebird_Cycles

You missed a la.


----------



## SBOB

Kingy said:


> Bohemian pilsner 5.4% at carols by candlelight with a bronco tap
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1481353746.003342.jpg LG


Planning on doing the same when I get dragged to the Swansea ones next weekend...


----------



## LAGERFRENZY

Booze Technician, Yeast Policeman and Carol Auditor, damned you're tricky man!


----------



## cliffo

Surely the beer being a "La"ger adds your "missing" "La"? ...


----------



## Lyrebird_Cycles

I sing as a *. Although I hate carols ("The Holly and the Ivy" excepted) along with every other aspect of Xmas, I've had to sing a lot of them.




* I used to say I was a second rate countertenor, then I heard Andreas Scholl and I knew it was third. His breath control is extraordinary: that crescendo in that first line is incredibly difficult to do, most people run out of breath and have to shorten the last word.


----------



## SBOB

so using my working regulator, I went through a co2 bulb and only dispensed ~3.5L of a 5L keg...which seems low. And this is with the regulator off and disconnected for the majority of the time..took it off everytime it went into the fridge

how many dispenses should I get from a bulb? and where should i start looking for leaks?

considering the other reg is dead, im having a poor run


----------



## Zorco

When you screw in the bulb does it burst out around the thread before the face of the bulb compresses against the nylon seal?


----------



## Lyrebird_Cycles

That does seem low unless you are dispensing at high pressure.

16 g of CO2 is about 8 litres at STP.

If you had a top pressure of 20psi =~ 140kPa, that's an absolute pressure of 240 kPa, the volume would be reduced: 8 litres at STP becomes 3.3 litres at 240 kPa.


----------



## SBOB

Zorco said:


> When you screw in the bulb does it burst out around the thread before the face of the bulb compresses against the nylon seal?


nope
screws in without any noticeable leakage


----------



## barls

sbob. try contacting them I've already had one of my regs replaced. see if its doing the same thing as it.


----------



## Zorco

I'd try another couple of bulbs and see if it is consistent. To be honest, I sometimes notice a bulb emptying prematurely but I don't care. I just reload and start firing off more beers. 

Interested in how your leak tests go though. I might try the same.


----------



## peteru

When taking the 5L keg out, I fill it and match the head pressure to the serving pressure of the big kegs. Once I arrive at the venue, I use the PRV to completely vent the 5L keg, then connect the regulator with the dispensing bulb and slowly increase the pressure until it flows right. I am on my first bulb and have dispensed two kegs. No idea how much gas is left in the first bulb, but it was certainly enough to push out two loads of 5L.


----------



## Coalminer

I agree with Peteru. On my first attempt I emptied a full keg and had gas left over even with a bit of wastage as well due to setting too high an initial pressure and venting

Gave a keg to my son who had no keg experience whatsoever and he had no trouble emptying the keg with 1 bulb and found the setup easy to use


----------



## Batz

I did an experiment when mine arrived, first I just added water to the keg (5lt model) and gassed it and left for over a week. This was to check for leaks, I poured some water each day and it worked well, no leaks at all and bulb still had gas.

Next I used beer and removed the regulator after a pour and put the keg in the fridge, only just finished a keg on an empty bulb. (was a new bulb)

This does not really worry me as my idea was to use these as party kegs so I expect to finish one in a session. It would be great if removing the regulator each time did not somehow waste gas. ( yes I dialed the regulator right back each time before removing)

The 5lt keg filled to the top of the parallel walls holds 4.7lt out of interest.

Batz


----------



## Kingy

I pretty much get 1 bulb per keg 
A couple of pours from the next keg and it's done


----------



## Batz

Kingy said:


> I pretty much get 1 bulb per keg
> A couple of pours from the next keg and it's done


yep, but around $1.00 per bulb it's not a biggie for me.


----------



## barls

i did 2 4L with one bulb.


----------



## Batz

barls said:


> i did 2 4L with one bulb.


Did you leave it connected all the time?


----------



## barls

it was swapped between the two as needed but connected the whole time apart from when transported


----------



## madpierre06

The Coleman cooler bags on wheels that hold 2 x 4L kegs (without head fittings) are on a BCeffing decent special this week, should come in at around the $42/43mark with the 20% off.


----------



## gezzanet

Used mine for the first time today. Filled 2 days ago and left in fridge with head on till today. Found an esky at home that fits 1 5 l jobbie with the bulk head on, a 2 litre frozen milk bottle and a vino for swmbo. Turn up to the barbie and clip on the tap and co2. Works like a charm. Close fit with the plastic disconnects hitting each other but works fine. Prob go for the ss right angle connector next.


----------



## Batz

gezzanet said:


> Close fit with the plastic disconnects hitting each other but works fine. Prob go for the ss right angle connector next.



Worthwhile small investment IMO 

Plenty of room between the the disconnects, and the tap looks so much better at 90deg. Looks a little close in the picture but it's fine.


----------



## All Things Homebrew

Hey guys just a reminder to tag 'The beer Can' on Facebook in any photos you take with the unit. I have a sneaky suspicion that which ever photo gets the most likes before new years will get some sort of PRIZE!!!!

Good Luck


----------



## Hopsta

Anyone had any issue with gas leaking out of the hole on the side of the pressure relief valve? First time using it, I've got 5lt of beer in there that i cant carb. Every time i turn the gas on it pisses out of the relief valve. If i push down slightly on the valve it shuts of the leak. Cant see where to pull this bit apart, and not sure even if i did that i could fix it. Any suggestions before i hit up ATHB for a replacement?


----------



## Batz

Is the pin spring loaded? Just wondering if a spring or 'o' ring has been left out.


----------



## Hopsta

It is spring loaded, i can feel the spring in there, it just doesn't contract enough when you let it go. Pushing down on it shuts it off.


----------



## sp0rk

If you can, I'd disassemble the valve, lube the oring with food grade silicone grease, reassemble and rotate the valve a little to bed it in
may just be a raised bump on the oring not letting it seat quite right without extra pressure
rotating sometimes fixes this I've found


----------



## Batz

To remove the PRV you would need to grab it with vice grips or similar, this would mark it. Your better off returning it for replacement.


----------



## Hopsta

Thanks guys i'll go for the replacement.


----------



## Batz

Are the 2lt tanks a different shape now? I thought they were taller than the 5lt.

https://www.thebeercan.com.au/collections/nothing-but-the-can/products/beercan2l

I like the look of these.


----------



## Lethaldog

Batz said:


> Are the 2lt tanks a different shape now? I thought they were taller than the 5lt.
> 
> https://www.thebeercan.com.au/collections/nothing-but-the-can/products/beercan2l
> 
> I like the look of these.


the 4 litre ones are taller but pretty sure the 2litres ones weren't!


----------



## Zorco

Batz said:


> Are the 2lt tanks a different shape now? I thought they were taller than the 5lt.
> 
> https://www.thebeercan.com.au/collections/nothing-but-the-can/products/beercan2l
> 
> I like the look of these.


The 4Ls are taller Batz,

The 2Ls are the same as the 4Ls but half the height.


----------



## All Things Homebrew

Hopsta said:


> Anyone had any issue with gas leaking out of the hole on the side of the pressure relief valve? First time using it, I've got 5lt of beer in there that i cant carb. Every time i turn the gas on it pisses out of the relief valve. If i push down slightly on the valve it shuts of the leak. Cant see where to pull this bit apart, and not sure even if i did that i could fix it. Any suggestions before i hit up ATHB for a replacement?



looking at some of the ones i have in the shop, the PRV can be tightened and loosened with your fingers, no need for pliers, well at least not on the couple i tested. Just use your fingers and unscrew the base of the PRV dotn use the ring to screw it. and check everything looks ok and then screw it back on tight.


----------



## mofox1

If you need a little extra grip to twist the prv off, wrap one of those fat rubber bands around it a couple of times. Better grip on the metal and on your fingers.


----------



## hotmelt

If you've got a spare poppet valve .





Attach disconnect first ,place spring in centre ,line up tap and push together.It's a bit fiddly to put together but it works ok.
This one might be better if you have one.


----------



## Hopsta

All Things Homebrew said:


> looking at some of the ones i have in the shop, the PRV can be tightened and loosened with your fingers, no need for pliers, well at least not on the couple i tested. Just use your fingers and unscrew the base of the PRV dotn use the ring to screw it. and check everything looks ok and then screw it back on tight.


I took off the faulty PRV easy enough, everything looked fine. Screwed it back in but still leaky. I've two head units, to ensure i wasn't missing anything i unscrewed the PRV off the head unit that was working to compare with the faulty PRV. Nothing unusual, but now they both leak. Not having much luck here, i've only got them under 35 psi pressure nothing they shouldn't easily handle.


----------



## Zorco

I noticed one of my PRVs a little loose once and as mark says it was only finger tight. But when I did this I had some pressure in the tank and as I tightened the PRV base again the gas stopped flowing just fine. I've got one in my backpack so will have to look when I get on this next train


----------



## Zorco

Yeah, not loose at all this one. Don't use pliers though, put an Allen key into the relief port and try and rotate it. Better than scratching if possible


----------



## Hopsta

There's only so far you can screw the PRV in, its easy enough to see the limit, tightness is not the issue. The PRV fails after relieving then letting go of the ring. Instead of it shutting the gas off, it continues to leak, albeit slowly but very noticeably.


----------



## Zorco

Ok so not a leak through the PRV body but from the valve element of it.


----------



## Hopsta

Zorco said:


> Ok so not a leak through the PRV body but from the valve element of it.


 yeh, out of that small hole on the side of the PRV.


----------



## Kingy

I thought the prv was suppose to vent at 35psi?


----------



## goatchop41

Hopsta said:


> I took off the faulty PRV easy enough, everything looked fine. Screwed it back in but still leaky. I've two head units, to ensure i wasn't missing anything i unscrewed the PRV off the head unit that was working to compare with the faulty PRV. Nothing unusual, but now they both leak. Not having much luck here, i've only got them under 35 psi pressure nothing they shouldn't easily handle.


Mate......you've just provided the answer here!

Read the little instruction booklet that came with all of the bits and pieces. I recall it stating that the PRV on these will automatically vent at >30psi


----------



## goatchop41

There it is


----------



## Coldspace

Yeah, I have forced carb mine at only 25 - 2 6 psi max. I fill mine when filling my corny with 18 ltrs then 4.5 ltrs into one of my 5 ltr ones from a 23 ltr batch. Cold of course.
Presurise chilled beer to 26 psi, purge head of air out using the valve, shake the beer can like when you shake a soft drink bottle using a carb cap when making soda water. Shake vigorously for about 20 secs, turn gas off, shake till pressure drops to about 23-24 psi and stops, if it creeps lower give another 3 -5 sec burst of gas while shaking. Usually takes me 1 minute to gas a mini.
Disconnect and leave over night or at least several hours in fridge to stabilise . Usually perfect next day, and then only needs pouring pressure .

If you go past 30 psi then the valve will leak. As is designed for.

If pressure transfer and filtering out of my kegmenter then these little 5 ltr ones are ******* gold, I do 45 ltr batches, 2 cornies and one 5 ltr mini, all ready to go and skull!!!! Loving this stuff and my little shineys


----------



## Zorco

Pickup..


----------



## Hopsta

goatchop41 said:


> Mate......you've just provided the answer here!
> 
> Read the little instruction booklet that came with all of the bits and pieces. I recall it stating that the PRV on these will automatically vent at >30psi


Hahaha... rule #1 - Read the Manual. Thanks goatchop! At 25 PSI i'll sleep easy knowing i wont lose my 9lt cylinder to a leak. Cheers!


----------



## Kingy

Where are you guys buying replacement bulbs from?


----------



## Zorco

I won't run out till the MKIV bulk buy.

Then I was going to buy big. Not sure after that.


----------



## Batz

Kingy said:


> Where are you guys buying replacement bulbs from?



http://www.finewhip.com.au/buy/16g-threaded-beer-chargers-x-30/2945690_30


----------



## Yob

http://www.allthingshomebrew.com.au/co2-cylinders-gas-related/90-10-x-16g-co2-cartridge-for-charger-food-grade-threaded.html


----------



## Zorco

Batz said:


> http://www.finewhip.com.au/buy/16g-threaded-beer-chargers-x-30/2945690_30


Now $34.00
Was $39.95

*For 30 bulbs! That's just about bulk buy prices.....*


----------



## sp0rk

hotmelt said:


> If you've got a spare poppet valve .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20161212_163426.jpg1.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 20161212_163501.jpg2.jpg
> 
> Attach disconnect first ,place spring in centre ,line up tap and push together.It's a bit fiddly to put together but it works ok.
> This one might be better if you have one.


Can confirm this works, I used the bottom universal type one
Has anyone else noticed the taps flow at a tiny trickle if you have over 100kpa/14psi in the tank? 
I took my tap apart and lubed all orings with keg lube, don't know if it was just gummy from manufacture and my quick cleaning


----------



## mtb

Is there a reg out there which is set to a single pressure - ie 10psi? I realised lately that I only ever use my minikeg reg at pouring pressure so I don't really need an adjustable one, and I figure a non-adjustable reg would be cheaper / less prone to breakage (due to less moving parts)


----------



## Dae Tripper

Got some, woot!


----------



## Dae Tripper

The Myspace shot 
lol


----------



## mofox1

You got a bit of poppet showing there, Dae.


----------



## Hopsta

Dae Tripper said:


> The Myspace shot
> lol
> 
> 
> 
> 2016-12-14 22.41.13.jpg


NICE CANS


----------



## Batz

Just need to find a better esky, 5lt kegs sitting on a piece of timber here.


----------



## Yob

superb :icon_drool2:


----------



## Yob

I put a bit of time into decorating mine





:lol:


----------



## SBOB

Yob said:


> I put a bit of time into decorating mine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :lol:


you should setup a bulk buy for your decorating skills... you could sell a range of custom made stickers


----------



## Zorco

If it has been named yet, What is the name of your brewery Yob?


----------



## gezzanet

RISCo


----------



## Yob

Zorco said:


> If it has been named yet, What is the name of your brewery Yob?


Slaughterhaus of course


----------



## Kingy

My 2 litre job fits nice in my fridge View attachment 93722


----------



## Kingy

My 2 litre job fits nice in my fridge


----------



## Mardoo

What Yob?!? No umlaut? But you're into metal. :huh:


----------



## Mardoo

Kingy said:


> My 2 litre job fits nice in my fridge


Oh crap! You've just justified me buying more of these.


----------



## Batz

Kingy said:


> My 2 litre job fits nice in my fridge
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1481779367.026796.jpg


 Been humming and hawing over a 2lt jobbie, I think that photo has me convinced. 

Edit: Just like me old mate above


----------



## Kingy

It's only good for 1 person tho, my misses just robbed me of my last schooner lol. Now I'll have to walk down the shed in the rain [emoji299]️


----------



## Batz

Kingy said:


> It's only good for 1 person tho, my misses just robbed me of my last schooner lol. Now I'll have to walk down the shed in the rain [emoji299]️


Well I will have 4 of the 5lt ones, I was thinking a 2lt for BYO dinners?


----------



## peekaboo_jones

First time user here, my kegs arrived this week from ATHB. just fill directly from the fermenter, connect as per instructions?
Should I test a run with water before beer?


----------



## Kingy

Yea that's what I do but I don't take gas or a tap I just use the lid. Undo and pour as required then replace lid. I got my 2litre from the Australian brewery for $40 filled with one of there beers and the beer can heads fit. 
Next time I go I'll be getting another one. 
When my old man drops in I usually send him home with 2litres from the keg.
There is good use for the 2litre cans but I like my 5litre ones better.


----------



## Zorco

Yob said:


> Slaughterhaus of course


Where brain cells go to die with RIS


----------



## Zorco

German edge on mine too

Cosbräu


----------



## Batz

Yob said:


> Slaughterhaus of course



Nice friendly sounding brewery, drop in if you dare.


----------



## Mr B

Kingy said:


> My 2 litre job fits nice in my fridge
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1481779367.026796.jpg



Oooooh breakfast cereal dilemma right there

Milk, beer, milk, beer, milk.......beer......


----------



## barls

it is the breakfast of champions


----------



## 5150

I was wondering if anyone has tried the 16G No2 bulbs with their mini kegs and regs. I was thinking for RIS etc. I know it would take a couple to fully carbonate, or is it nitrogenate?, but it's still going to be cheaper in the short term that getting another bottle and reg.


----------



## 5150

I thought I may have found some threaded bulbs, but on further inspection they look like they aren't -_-


----------



## barls

you want nitrogen bulbs not no2. they will oxidise your beer very badly.


----------



## dannymars

Spring? 






(no affiliation)

Buying only one head unit was a mistake, one I'll have to rectify with the next bulk buy.


----------



## sp0rk

dannymars said:


> Spring?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (no affiliation)
> 
> Buying only one head unit was a mistake, one I'll have to rectify with the next bulk buy.


As has already been said a few times, the intertap spring is too long
a poppet valve spring is perfect


----------



## Batz

I transfer to the mini keg, top up the gas and let settle for a few hours or more. Remove the head unit and fit the cap that came with the keg. When ready to drink remove the cap and fit the head unit, top up gas again.
I have four 5lt tanks, two head units.


----------



## sp0rk

Batz said:


> I transfer to the mini keg, top up the gas and let settle for a few hours or more. Remove the head unit and fit the cap that came with the keg. When ready to drink remove the cap and fit the head unit, top up gas again.
> I have four 5lt tanks, two head units.


I was thinking of doing that, overcarbing ever so slightly, then just putting the old lid back on
Mrs has given me permission to grab a few more kegs in the MKIV BB, so I might just grab 1 or 2 more kegs and not get another head at this stage


----------



## Batz

sp0rk said:


> I was thinking of doing that, overcarbing ever so slightly, then just putting the old lid back on
> Mrs has given me permission to grab a few more kegs in the MKIV BB, so I might just grab 1 or 2 more kegs and not get another head at this stage


Well my thought was I could buy a 5lt tank for around the same price as a head unit. I have two head units already and really could not see myself running more than two kegs at a time.


----------



## Batz

If you carb up your 19lt corney it quite OK to remove the lid for a short period for whatever reason. What's the differance with a mini keg?


----------



## sp0rk

This is true, I guess


----------



## Bridges

Batz said:


> If you carb up your 19lt corney it quite OK to remove the lid for a short period for whatever reason.


How else are you supposed to keg hop? So has any one keg hopped one of these bad boys yet?


----------



## Batz

Bridges said:


> How else are you supposed to keg hop? So has any one keg hopped one of these bad boys yet?


Exactly Bridges, now keg hop a mini? Why not? Perhaps some sort of small tea ball or hop bag.


----------



## bevan

Best way of transferring!


----------



## Batz

What do you find the full weight to be, omitting the keg weight. Oh and is that a 5lt?

Batz


----------



## mtb

I'd love if Lyrebird_Cycles or someone with equivalent know-how could chime in on this. Is a material amount of carbonation lost from the beer when transferring carbed beer to a minikeg, screwing on the cap, allowing the CO2 to equilibrate and re-pressurise the headspace, then unscrewing the lid (purging the CO2 from the headspace) and attaching a ball lock head?

If it's a matter of limiting headspace to equilibrate with, I guess the aim is to fill as close to the neck as possible (while allowing room for the dip tube).
Obviously there'd be some loss, but maybe not enough to cause concern.


----------



## Batz

mtb said:


> I'd love if Lyrebird_Cycles or someone with equivalent know-how could chime in on this. Is a material amount of carbonation lost from the beer when transferring carbed beer to a minikeg, screwing on the cap, allowing the CO2 to equilibrate and re-pressurise the headspace, then unscrewing the lid (purging the CO2 from the headspace) and attaching a ball lock head?
> 
> If it's a matter of limiting headspace to equilibrate with, I guess the aim is to fill as close to the neck as possible (while allowing room for the dip tube).
> Obviously there'd be some loss, but maybe not enough to cause concern.


I'm sure there are all sorts of equations for this. Being a dumb arse fitter and brewer, I like to try it and see the results myself.
The proof is in the pudding, an old saying but one I believe in.

Batz


----------



## Kingy

I've filled mine with a pilsner and capped it and stored in fridge for a week then took it out and put the head on and drank it and noticed no loss in carbonation. I've stored my 2 litre a few weeks this way and noticed no difference either. You don't even need the gas to serve if your gunna drink it all that arvo. Just use it like a big growler. 
I've woke up in the morning and noticed a schooner of beer sitting in the fridge from the night before and I still drink it but.


----------



## Yob

I think I'll randalizer flow into the mini.. Seems safer to me


----------



## Batz

Kingy said:


> I've filled mine with a pilsner and capped it and stored in fridge for a week then took it out and put the head on and drank it and noticed no loss in carbonation. I've stored my 2 litre a few weeks this way and noticed no difference either. You don't even need the gas to serve if your gunna drink it all that arvo. Just use it like a big growler.
> I've woke up in the morning and noticed a schooner of beer sitting in the fridge from the night before and I still drink it but.



You sure Kingy? Really that does not work out.


----------



## Batz

Yob said:


> I think I'll randalizer flow into the mini.. Seems safer to me


Agree


----------



## peteru

I've keg hopped with the mini. Threw in a handful (maybe 20g) of Cascade pellets as I was filling it. I attached my usual mesh filter to the dip tube and pressurised. Gave it a good shake and popped it in a cooler bag in the boot of the car. It was served about 4 hours later and was delicious. It was gone in no time. The combo of the mesh filter and dip tube ended up picking up gas a bit early. There was about 0.5l of hop and beer left in the keg, but no easy way of separating the two. If I had a tea strainer, I could have poured the rest through it to get a hoppy overload.


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Hi gang,
I'm starting to put together and learn how these things work, after the recent MKIII bb. Does anyone use a one way check valve with the regulator?
does the regulator have one built in?
I currently bottle my beer, no experience with kegging


----------



## SBOB

So Mark came through with the replacement regulator...even included a return post bag to send the other one back

But, considering how lucky I am... This ones doing the same thing
Barely flowing with a brand new co2 cartridge and nothing on the outlet (so not a QD problem)

Anyone else had this issue?


----------



## Zorco

Something like that happened for me today. The pressure didn't rise immediately but I accidentally left the dial high and when I returned the pressure was right up there. I don't think this is a hardware fault anymore and I'm looking at the physics of the CO2 bulb. It is like the gas becomes gas very slowly, or that the barb doesn't pierce the metal sufficiently.

Maybe try this: screw in the build much harder. Compress that seal and drive the barb past the metal face of the bulb.


----------



## Batz

I think the regulators are the problem with these things, mine both work but take time to raise/lower the pressure. It does not show on the gauge for a while, and both seem somewhat different. I find them OK just the same, it took me all of 5 minutes to work them out.

I would be interested in obtaining a returned unit so I could pull it down and post pictures here on how to repair them. I have asked be not received a reply as yet.

Hope you have more luck with your next one. 

Batz


----------



## SBOB

Batz said:


> I think the regulators are the problem with these things, mine both work but take time to raise/lower the pressure. It does not show on the gauge for a while, and both seem somewhat different. I find them OK just the same, it took me all of 5 minutes to work them out.
> 
> I would be interested in obtaining a returned unit so I could pull it down and post pictures here on how to repair them. I have asked be not received a reply as yet.
> 
> Hope you have more luck with your next one.
> 
> Batz


Well depending on the answer from Mark, I might volunteer up this one for you  

I've asked them to test out the one I sent back to see whether they can determine what the issue is (me or the regulator)..


----------



## Zorco

Would the tear down be destructive? I have one that I'd be prepared to send you for this exercise


----------



## SBOB

Zorco said:


> Maybe try this: screw in the build much harder. Compress that seal and drive the barb past the metal face of the bulb.


To be honest, I couldn't screw it in any harder if I tried...well,maybe with some vice grips...


----------



## Batz

Zorco said:


> Would the tear down be destructive? I have one that I'd be prepared to send you for this exercise


Well possibly, that why I want one that's of little use to anyone. Given there are no overhaul kits it's a bit of 'suck it and see'


----------



## Batz

SBOB, when you turn the regulator up, do you give it sometime to adjust? I find it takes a little time for one of mine to come up to pressure, it's not the gauge but the regulator itself. I have an idea what this is.... maybe.

Just try turning it up, (disconnect off) and wait. Have a beer perhaps?  I'll like to know if it works after a couple of minutes.


----------



## SBOB

Batz said:


> Just try turning it up, (disconnect off) and wait. Have a beer perhaps?  I'll like to know if it works after a couple of minutes.


I'm testing without a disconnect attached, so it's just regulator and bulb... If I cover the outlet with my finger, the pressure rises, but the flow rate is incredibly low.. Like a grandma with emphysema...


----------



## SBOB

At least the working regulator makes Christmas carols enjoyable 
https://goo.gl/photos/ynPuMb3XtJmCrrhj6
Tasty scuplin-ish ipa..


----------



## bevan

I had a regulator that worked initially, but then was very hard to get anything out of it. I pulled it apart and gave it a clean and now it seems to be working (yet to try it on a keg). If you gently remove the top decal of the knob this allows you to remove a small set screw that acts as a stop for the knob, turn the knob further off until comes off. This gets you access to a spring and plunger that actuate's the valve. To remove the valve you use circlip pliers to turn the gas bulb piercing bit (on the other end) out and the valve then falls out. The valve can then be pulled apart. Sadly I didn't take any photos and now have a bulb attached that needs using.


----------



## EalingDrop

Great posts chaps, this thread is proving to be useful for some of the issues I've had with mine. :unsure:

On another note.
I'm the process of building a mini bar, and here's a pic of the 'internals'

Sodastream + Adaptor + Mini reg + 2 gas line split.
Testing with WATER the regulator is able to keep BOTH at set and forget pressure (8psi).


----------



## mofox1

Rough as guts, but she'll do for a week at the beach.


----------



## Batz

EalingDrop said:


> Great posts chaps, this thread is proving to be useful for some of the issues I've had with mine. :unsure:
> 
> On another note.
> I'm the process of building a mini bar, and here's a pic of the 'internals'
> 
> Sodastream + Adaptor + Mini reg + 2 gas line split.
> Testing with WATER the regulator is able to keep BOTH at set and forget pressure (8psi).


One reg. two kegs, nice idea.


----------



## EalingDrop

Seem to have trouble with Reg keep a constant PSI.

Works fine with WATER. Pulled pint after pint with no trouble, but with beer (naturally carbed in the keg) I can't seem to get it to stabalise.
Spent all arvo 'baby sitting' the Keg as had to adjust through PRV and dialing the knob constantly.

Any explanations or solutions would be great.

PS. I used the 16g Co2 soda chargers


----------



## technobabble66

Bit ghetto, but we're all systems go. 
Nice little 7.5% caraaroma Red Lager:


----------



## Lyrebird_Cycles

mtb said:


> I'd love if Lyrebird_Cycles or someone with equivalent know-how could chime in on this. Is a material amount of carbonation lost from the beer when transferring carbed beer to a minikeg, screwing on the cap, allowing the CO2 to equilibrate and re-pressurise the headspace, then unscrewing the lid (purging the CO2 from the headspace) and attaching a ball lock head?


Short answer: Yes.

Longer answer: The amount lost will depend on the ratio of headspace to beer volume. It's not hard to work out if you already know your beer CO2 level in g/l, just figure the headspace will be 2 g/l at STP and adjust for equilibrium pressure (remembering to use absolute pressure, not gauge)

Will it make enough difference for you to notice? I dunno.


----------



## Lyrebird_Cycles

EalingDrop said:


> Seem to have trouble with Reg keep a constant PSI.
> 
> Works fine with WATER. Pulled pint after pint with no trouble, but with beer (naturally carbed in the keg) I can't seem to get it to stabalise.
> Spent all arvo 'baby sitting' the Keg as had to adjust through PRV and dialing the knob constantly.
> 
> Any explanations or solutions would be great.


I've noticed the same thing, I think it's a combination of the regulator response being very slow and the minikeg eventually reaching the equilibrium pressure of the beer if you set the regulator to a value lower than that.


----------



## Lyrebird_Cycles

Bridges said:


> How else are you supposed to keg hop? So has any one keg hopped one of these bad boys yet?


Yep. Keg hopped with 5 g of Nelson Sauvin pellets in a bag as a trial. Worked well flavourwise but I found the hop particles in the beer a little distracting. Trying it again tomorrow with some flowers.


----------



## Lyrebird_Cycles

Yob said:


> Slaughterhaus of course


Winery I used to run has Slaughterhouse Paddock as a brand. Beer and wine are in separate Trademark classes (Class 32 and Class 33 respectively) so you are probably OK but it might be best to ask a lawyer first if this becomes a commercial enterprise.


----------



## Yob

Naa, I have another company set up for any commercial interests


----------



## N3MIS15

Batz said:


> What do you find the full weight to be, omitting the keg weight. Oh and is that a 5lt?
> 
> Batz


1 litre of water weighs 1kg at sea level. Beer weight changes with the gravity. I would guess a litre of 1.010 gravity beer would weigh 1.01kg. Just a guess though. :unsure:


----------



## Batz

N3MI said:


> 1 litre of water weighs 1kg at sea level. Beer weight changes with the gravity. I would guess a litre of 1.010 gravity beer would weigh 1.01kg. Just a guess though. :unsure:


I know that but the 5lt kegs don't hold 5lts. More like 4.7lt plus the weight of the empty keg.
Bevans looks more like a 2lt anyway.


----------



## N3MIS15

Batz said:


> I know that but the 5lt kegs don't hold 5lts. More like 4.7lt plus the weight of the empty keg.
> Bevans looks more like a 2lt anyway.


FWIW My 5l mini keg holds a touch over 5 litres of liquid at the the weld line.


----------



## Batz

N3MI said:


> FWIW My 5l mini keg holds a touch over 5 litres of liquid at the the weld line.


Hell! I might just check my other one. I admit that I did use a calibrated jug and not scales.


----------



## bevan

Batz said:


> I know that but the 5lt kegs don't hold 5lts. More like 4.7lt plus the weight of the empty keg.
> Bevans looks more like a 2lt anyway.


It is a 2Lt one


----------



## Yob

Does not hold 5kg of RIS.. Right to the top..

I've only checked the one


----------



## Batz

N3MI said:


> FWIW My 5l mini keg holds a touch over 5 litres of liquid at the the weld line.


If you have the same 5lt keg as we all bought on the last BB, I would be very surprised. I fact I really don't think you could get 5lt into one of these.

Photo using water filled to the bottom of the conical, I'll call it 4lt, give or take a few ml.

What do you others find?


----------



## Yob

I had 4.7kg of RIS in it, only a small space for gas but was adequate


----------



## bevan

Batz said:


> If you have the same 5lt keg as we all bought on the last BB, I would be very surprised. I fact I really don't think you could get 5lt into one of these.
> 
> Photo using water filled to the bottom of the conical, I'll call it 4lt, give or take a few ml.
> 
> What do you others find?


Possibly a silly question, you didn't get a 4Lt keg instead of the 5Lt by mistake. What are your dimensions and I'll compare it to my 4Lt one


----------



## Digga

Definitely looks like a 5L fro. What I understand is the is alot taller


----------



## Batz

Has 5lt printed on it. What do your 4lt kegs hold?


----------



## bevan

Yeah now that I looked at the photo it looks like the 5Lt. The 4Lt is tall and same diameter as the 2Lt.


----------



## bevan

Batz said:


> Has 5lt printed on it. What do your 4lt kegs hold?


I'll check them, won't be till tomorrow night though.


----------



## N3MIS15

Batz said:


> If you have the same 5lt keg as we all bought on the last BB, I would be very surprised. I fact I really don't think you could get 5lt into one of these.
> 
> Photo using water filled to the bottom of the conical, I'll call it 4lt, give or take a few ml.
> 
> What do you others find?


Sorry, mine is from ebay. But this is it filled to the brim.


----------



## Batz

OK point taken, yes filled to the brim 5lt. Quite surprised the conical bit holds a litre.
For use as intended I would personally not fill past the 4lt level. I'm not complaining at all, love these little kegs.! :drinks:


----------



## All Things Homebrew

Hi guys Sorry i haven't been keeping up to date in here, this is puzzling to hear about the 5L all holding different amounts, I just threw 5L of water in two of the ones at the shop and both filled it with about 55mm of head space to the very top on the neck. 

they all looked and felt the same size when packaging them all, would be interested to see how many people are finding them to not fit 5L in them. and by how much. there should not be so much variation between the same product.


----------



## SBOB

All Things Homebrew said:


> Hi guys Sorry i haven't been keeping up to date in here


If you get a chance, can you take a look at the reg I sent back that got delivered today..
The replacement one is doing the same ('emphysema grandma breathing output when turned on, as opposed to flowing freely), so would be good to see if its something obvious..


----------



## All Things Homebrew

&nbsp;


SBOB said:


> If you get a chance, can you take a look at the reg I sent back that got delivered today..
> The replacement one is doing the same ('emphysema grandma breathing output when turned on, as opposed to flowing freely), so would be good to see if its something obvious..


&nbsp;

yeah it got delivered today will try play around with it tonight, along with another one. I have had the issue once or twice before but it isn't consistent, sometimes it works fine other times it doesn't.


----------



## Kingy

SBOB said:


> If you get a chance, can you take a look at the reg I sent back that got delivered today..
> The replacement one is doing the same ('emphysema grandma breathing output when turned on, as opposed to flowing freely), so would be good to see if its something obvious..


That's what mine does !


----------



## Kingy

SBOB said:


> If you get a chance, can you take a look at the reg I sent back that got delivered today..
> The replacement one is doing the same ('emphysema grandma breathing output when turned on, as opposed to flowing freely), so would be good to see if its something obvious..


That's what mine does !


----------



## SBOB

Kingy said:


> That's what mine does !


hopefully Mark can identify the issue...


----------



## Yob

Batz said:


> OK point taken, yes filled to the brim 5lt. Quite surprised the conical bit holds a litre.
> For use as intended I would personally not fill past the 4lt level. I'm not complaining at all, love these little kegs.! :drinks:


I went to half cone last night (RIS) and stopped it about 4.4kg, wouldnt want to put more in it than that..


----------



## Coalminer

Batz said:



> For use as intended I would personally not fill past the 4lt level. I'm not complaining at all, love these little kegs.! :drinks:


Why not?


----------



## Fraser's BRB

All Things Homebrew said:


> &nbsp; &nbsp;
> 
> yeah it got delivered today will try play around with it tonight, along with another one. I have had the issue once or twice before but it isn't consistent, sometimes it works fine other times it doesn't.


Interested to hear results, I had the same issue on the weekend. Reg worked fine last time I used it, this time, no good. Ended up using mini-kegs as oversized growlers which was less than satisfying.

Haven't tried reg since, but tried two different bulbs for same result.


----------



## SBOB

Fraser's BRB said:


> Interested to hear results, I had the same issue on the weekend. Reg worked fine last time I used it, this time, no good. Ended up using mini-kegs as oversized growlers which was less than satisfying.
> 
> Haven't tried reg since, but tried two different bulbs for same result.


Well, im kind of glad I am not the only one...
Went through a few bulbs trying to work out what I was doing wrong, so hopefully Mark can identify some simple issue/cause


----------



## mattyg8

Yeah I had the exact same issue but wasn't sure if it was the reg, head or disconnect so I sent it back to him to look at. I see Keg king are selling what looks to be same mini reg in the store


----------



## Kingy

Haha yea I've lost a few bulbs to. I'm not plugging anymore into my unit in the hope it's going to work and sacrificing a bulb. And I'm not quick enough to unplug it and screw into my other regulator lol.


----------



## EalingDrop

technobabble66 said:


> Bit ghetto, but we're all systems go.
> Nice little 7.5% caraaroma Red Lager:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1481975234.166131.jpg


I like the element of 'danger' with this set up. :lol:

Barb + silicon option to consider:

The description taken from their website. (I'm no good with plumbing terms)
http://www.lelandgas..._valves_prd.htm

*1⁄4” hose barb outlet ISO-7 RP1/8” threaded with O ring.*


----------



## pat86

Hi guys, is anyone having success / issues priming directly and dispensing in these mini kegs?

If so, what is your set-up (kegs / how many heads with spears, etc.)? 

Cheers,


----------



## Lyrebird_Cycles

EalingDrop said:


> I like the element of 'danger' with this set up. :lol:
> 
> Barb + silicon option to consider:
> 
> The description taken from their website. (I'm no good with plumbing terms)
> http://www.lelandgas..._valves_prd.htm
> 
> *1⁄4” hose barb outlet ISO-7 RP1/8” threaded with O ring.*



If it's an O ring fitting, why is there tape on it?


----------



## EalingDrop

Lyrebird_Cycles said:


> If it's an O ring fitting, why is there tape on it?



Got mine from ikegger and it didn't come with an O ring (or missing?)... hence the tape. Did a soap bubble test, happy to report it's been leak free.
Don't know if he sells them specifically, threw one in when I ordered the SS gas disconnects.


----------



## All Things Homebrew

SBOB said:


> Well, im kind of glad I am not the only one...
> Went through a few bulbs trying to work out what I was doing wrong, so hopefully Mark can identify some simple issue/cause



been playing around with a couple of the faulty regs, I dont know much about how to fix them, I am going to send a couple of them back to the manufacturer so they can stop it from happening in the future and help supply a solution. I will also try get one to Batz, or if someone is in his area with a faulty one and is willing to let him pull it apart, that might be quicker.

after wasting a bunch of bulbs, it seems that the regulator doesn't like to release much if anything if it doesn't have resistance against it, sometimes it will work fine, other times it will release slowly or not at all.


reading through the instructions that came with the regs from the first BB but seemed to be missing from the second, the instructions recommend to have the reg attached to the disconnect but not connected to the post, set the pressure you want then connect it to the post,rather than connecting it and then setting the pressure. doing it this way the needle still moves slowly, but does stop at the pre-set pressure.


----------



## barls

All Things Homebrew said:


> been playing around with a couple of the faulty regs, I dont know much about how to fix them, I am going to send a couple of them back to the manufacturer so they can stop it from happening in the future and help supply a solution. I will also try get one to Batz, or if someone is in his area with a faulty one and is willing to let him pull it apart, that might be quicker.
> 
> after wasting a bunch of bulbs, it seems that the regulator doesn't like to release much if anything if it doesn't have resistance against it, sometimes it will work fine, other times it will release slowly or not at all.
> 
> 
> reading through the instructions that came with the regs from the first BB but seemed to be missing from the second, the instructions recommend to have the reg attached to the disconnect but not connected to the post, set the pressure you want then connect it to the post,rather than connecting it and then setting the pressure. doing it this way the needle still moves slowly, but does stop at the pre-set pressure.


are the ones that people are having trouble with the newer version aka the one without the adaptor for the disconnect?


----------



## Black n Tan

All Things Homebrew said:


> reading through the instructions that came with the regs from the first BB but seemed to be missing from the second, the instructions recommend to have the reg attached to the disconnect but not connected to the post, set the pressure you want then connect it to the post,rather than connecting it and then setting the pressure. doing it this way the needle still moves slowly, but does stop at the pre-set pressure.



I have the original Leland reg for which these seem to be a knock-off. Although I haven't experienced the problem that people have experienced here, I agree with the advice of setting the reg to pressure before connecting to the post. The reason is that with the Leland reg if you connect to the post before the press is set, it will simply vent the keg pressure and if the keg has been transported you risk being covered in beer or getting beer in the reg. So I am not sure it will fix the problems people have mentioned, but it is still a good idea (if they work the same way as the Leland reg).


----------



## Coldspace

I find that setting the pressure to pouring pressure then connecting onto keg works well for me, but using the supplied taps is a pita due to no line resistance so they pour way too fast unless you just have minimal gas pressure set , then the next problem is the volume of gas can't keep up with the pour and slows to a trickle plus less carb is held in solution due to this you crank up the pressure and it over pressurises and you get a cup of foam. So it's hard to get a balance with the taps.

If you've transported the mini, it takes some time for the beer to stabilise due to the shaking around, best to transport them to bbqs packed with heaps of ice to keep the beer at close to 0 otherwise if you've filled them up from mains keg at home via counter pressure fill, and the mini warms up even say 3 degrees higher than the beer at home, when pouring at party the co2 will come out of solution fast causing foam and also pressure diff inside the keg, so keep it cold as, packed in ice....

Use a pluto gun, and you'll be in heaven.... I might try a flow control tap, this would work better than the supplied taps, but I love my pluto gun... Especially because with my 5 ltr ones, I can keep the pluto connected and sitting on top of the ice and esky lid shut. 

I bought a mini reg, similar but diff coloured nob it's silver from ebay before this bulk buy for 85 bucks and love it. I'm yet to use the one I got in the latest bulk buy as it's like a spare for me. But will give it a run over the Christmas holidays but I suspect it should be ok. I'll give the mini reg I've got from the latest bulk buy a crack this weekend, and leave my other Leland nock off alone to see if there's a diff...

I've found using my pluto gun with half a meter of line with these mini kegs is far superior .plus the carbonation is held in the beer a lot better.

I personally have no issue using the taps etc once I dial it in, but when others are using them, they always have issues. 

I've shelved the taps that came with my 4 mini kegs, prob buy another quality pluto gun after Christmas , it's a lot better way to dispense out of these, especially at bbqs when your novice mates get into the beers


----------



## Coldspace

Another recommendation I can offer is,

Allways smear o ring lube over your posts on these, if you use a good quality silicone base oring lube, smear it between your fingers then over the posts and oring, each time you take these out for use.
Your posts,orings and more importantly disconnects will love you for it.

You should be lubing up your posts at home kegs all the time as well. I've seen mates setups I've been over to and they are as dry as a nuns nasty and they have all sorts of issues with leaks and disconnects jamming on etc...

I also smear it onto the oring of the ball locks head and also a bit onto the threads of the ball lock, makes for a nice smooth screw down fit. 
Lube it , and screw it she'll love ya for it...

I remember back in the 80's when doing my apprenticeship in refrigeration for coke, we always taught the bar girls in pubs about lube on the firestone kegs in the cellar rooms around brissy before coke phased them out to bag and box syrups...those were fun days
Just before kegs became fashionable with the homebrew market, I remember standing next to a pile of nearly 50000 kegs before the metal recyclers crushed them. Freaking waste, but I gots some

Lube it up guys....every time, your girls will love ya for it..


----------



## Kingy

Coldspace said:


> I've shelved the taps that came with my 4 mini kegs, prob buy another quality pluto gun after Christmas , it's a lot better way to dispense out of these, especially at bbqs when your novice mates get into the beers


Same with mine I brought a fridge shank and put it in my fridge. I use that now to sample my crash chilled force carbed beer fresh in 5litre kegs. 

But when I take a single 5litre keg with me somewhere my $5bronco tap works a treat.


----------



## nosco

I just picked up my 5lt from GnG today Can anyone tell me what this part is? Its not in the parts list for the keg or the reg?


----------



## Zorco

You use that adapter instead when you're using the 74g CO2 cylinder. 

Keep it, more options for your rig.


----------



## Zorco

Here, pics are always better


----------



## barls

who is stocking the 74g cartridges atm?


----------



## Zorco

IBrew. They sell double packs. 

http://www.ibrew.com.au/products/leland-c02-tapgas

Looks like Xmas got the better of their stock. I saw them there 6 weeks ago


----------



## nosco

Zorco said:


> You use that adapter instead when you're using the 74g CO2 cylinder.
> 
> Keep it, more options for your rig.


and thats the adapter to use a soda stream bottle as well?

SS bottles on special at bigW for $35 btw.


----------



## nosco

Zorco said:


> You use that adapter instead when you're using the 74g CO2 cylinder.
> 
> Keep it, more options for your rig.


and thats the adapter to use a soda stream bottle as well?

SS bottles on special at bigW for $35 btw.


----------



## bevan

Triple post!


----------



## bevan

View attachment 93895

S&W pacific ale in one and Yobs Aldi apple and mango cider in the other.


----------



## bevan

View attachment 93895

S&W pacific ale in one and Yobs Aldi apple and mango cider in the other.


----------



## peekaboo_jones

So I've hooked my new 5L all up. 
Dialled in 5psi and left it for 2 mins, turned it off and bled the prv a bit. Dialled 5 psi again and left it. 
Should I leave it for a few days to carbonate at this pressure and it'll be OK for serving?


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Update:
It lost all pressure overnight, I take it this isn't normal?


----------



## nic0

peekaboo_jones said:


> Update:
> It lost all pressure overnight, I take it this isn't normal?


Was your beer already carbonated? If it wasn't then yes it normal as your beer has adsorbed the Co2.


----------



## nic0

Was visiting the local IGA and spotted a heap of these foam tubs in the fruit and veg area. The 5lt tanks fit perfectly.


----------



## Batz

Great minds think alike!

I also found these foam boxes, the first I made was the same as what you did nic0, I made cuts to allow for the glass to be filled. Next I found slightly shorter boxes (in height) these worked out better for me. Any drips fall onto the tea towel rather than running down the side of the box, perhaps a drip tray next?

Anyway I'll be test driving it tomorrow with Christmas beers. :drinks:


----------



## Yob

Exactly what I've got marked out.. 

Nice one, the 5l's are made for this


----------



## Zorco

I rate the 2L versions for a quick transport. Such an easy fit.

Mini keg variety...[emoji106]


----------



## Zorco

Alright, mini reg warranty people... I just went to use my mini reg after loading a fresh cylinder for a 2L keg on Thursday, so plenty of gas left.

But it didn't flow. I thought maybe I had a leak and removed the cylinder -- at which point it vented and chilled.

Next cylinder and no flow again. So I unscrewed the bulb a bit and then the gas pressure shot up..

Try it out lads and see if it does anything for you


----------



## Batz

Zorco said:


> Alright, mini reg warranty people... I just went to use my mini reg after loading a fresh cylinder for a 2L keg on Thursday, so plenty of gas left.
> 
> But it didn't flow. I thought maybe I had a leak and removed the cylinder -- at which point it vented and chilled.
> 
> Next cylinder and no flow again. So I unscrewed the bulb a bit and then the gas pressure shot up..
> 
> Try it out lads and see if it does anything for you


I wonder if there is a rubber seal that can be compressed too much and block the outlet of the bulb?


----------



## Kingy

Thanks zorco [emoji120] my regulator seems to be working again.


----------



## Batz

peekaboo_jones said:


> So I've hooked my new 5L all up.
> Dialled in 5psi and left it for 2 mins, turned it off and bled the prv a bit. Dialled 5 psi again and left it.
> Should I leave it for a few days to carbonate at this pressure and it'll be OK for serving?


I think you are asking a little too much to expect a 5lt keg to carbonate on a 16gm C02 bulb. Most of us transfer brews already carbonated in a larger keg.
Perhaps someone has done this, if so I hope they offer you some advise.
Hope it works out and you have beer for tomorrow.

Batz


----------



## LAGERFRENZY

I asked the question about force carbing these and Mark from ATHB got back to me:


LAGERFRENZY, on 27 Sept 2016 - 8:44 PM, said:
One question that I have seen asked a lot but never answered is - has anyone force carbed these little beauties with the gas bulbs that come with them. If so how so, how long does it take, at what pressure, how many bulbs to carb a 5 litre jobbie - as much information as you can spare for a keg noob please.
I have tried once or twice to quick gas with the bulbs with mixed results still trying to fine tune it, there mainly ment for dispensing, 

what I tried: connected the bulb and set the reg to 20psi then rolled the keg on its side for about a minute, then left it at 20psi for about a day and then turned the reg off and released the head space. and set to about 4 psi for pouring, it was carbonated but could of been better. this used up most of a bulb.


----------



## nosco

When i picked up mine from Grain and Grape Matt said he carbonates in his 2lt keg. Not sure how it would work woth a 5 lt.


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Batz said:


> I think you are asking a little too much to expect a 5lt keg to carbonate on a 16gm C02 bulb. Most of us transfer brews already carbonated in a larger keg.
> 
> Perhaps someone has done this, if so I hope they offer you some advise.
> 
> Hope it works out and you have beer for tomorrow.
> 
> 
> Batz



Thanks, I'm new to this - I only have these 5L kegs. I guess I should've gotten into the 19L jobs first 

Oh well, I'll see how it goes otherwise I might try naturally carbing.


Interestingly I found a vid from the iKegger dude showing how to force carb these by connecting the mini reg to the liquid post, dialling in 20 psi and leaving overnight. 


https://youtu.be/Ql-3b7xiP5Q


----------



## Black n Tan

QldKev has a handy CO2 usage calculator on his site http://qldkev.net/co2.php?Grams=16&kegSize=5&do=Calculate


----------



## nic0

I added some paper towel to catch the drips. I find if i hold the lip of the glass on the edge of the tap after i have finished pouring i can drain the beer left in the tap and limit the drips.

Edit: Bloody tappatalk double posting


----------



## LAGERFRENZY

peekaboo_jones said:


> Thanks, I'm new to this - I only have these 5L kegs. I guess I should've gotten into the 19L jobs first
> 
> Oh well, I'll see how it goes otherwise I might try naturally carbing.
> 
> 
> Interestingly I found a vid from the iKegger dude showing how to force carb these by connecting the mini reg to the liquid post, dialling in 20 psi and leaving overnight.
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/Ql-3b7xiP5Q


I naturally carbed a 5 litre on Tuesday with 15 grams of Dextrose. Tried the Pressure Relief Valve today and it is definitely carbing up. Treat the same as you would with bottles - two weeks at 18 C.


----------



## nic0

Batz said:


> I wonder if there is a rubber seal that can be compressed too much and block the outlet of the bulb?


If one of the suppied seals was used between the reg and the disconnect i reckon it would restrict the flow when compressed. I used thread tape and set my regs to 5psi before i connect the disconnect to the tank and haven't had any problems so far.


----------



## Rocker1986

I don't have one of those fancy looking things but I do have a 10L keg as of the other day that I'll be blending the surplus of similar batches in, ~5L of each one. Probably doesn't really count for this thread though.


----------



## Zorco

Batz said:


> I wonder if there is a rubber seal that can be compressed too much and block the outlet of the bulb?


I think so or something just like this.

Kingy, elaborate on your experience more. I'm keen to see if we can help the whole community with this flow problem...


----------



## Batz

Well I used this Christmas Day and it worked great. I put already chilled kegs in there with a bag of ice at 8.30am. This morning there was still plenty of ice left.
These would be great for a weekend away, camping etc.

I'll be making another and moving the kegs nearer the edge to make it easier to get your glass under the tap.


----------



## mattyg8

I for one have not had much luck with the reg. First to times worked no issue and reg was really reponsive. I usually tranfet from keg to mini keg via outlet post.

Last few times the regulator just doesnt seem to move when connceted to the mini reg, Ive even had Mark swap it over. Hopefully there is a simple solution


----------



## bingggo

Howdy,

I'm a newbie to what keg posts are meant to look like. On the out-of-focus pic of the beer post, you can see the red seal is visible and the pin is off-centre. On the other pic of the gas post, the pin seems more depressed than other keg posts I've seen (not many!).

It's holding pressure and not leaking, but are these normal, or should I use a wrench to get them off and recenter?

Cheers,
B


----------



## Dae Tripper

bingggo said:


> Howdy,
> 
> I'm a newbie to what keg posts are meant to look like. On the out-of-focus pic of the beer post, you can see the red seal is visible and the pin is off-centre. On the other pic of the gas post, the pin seems more depressed than other keg posts I've seen (not many!).
> 
> It's holding pressure and not leaking, but are these normal, or should I use a wrench to get them off and recenter?
> 
> Cheers,
> B


It is fine champ, ignore it.


----------



## peteru

Don't ignore it. Use keg lube so that it seats properly. However, don't worry about it.


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Good outing in Melbourne today for #thebeercan.
Honestly Pale ale hopped with Galaxy & Azacca


----------



## Mr B

I recently enjoyed a 5l keg of smurtos via gas at normal (~100kpa) and a pluto gun with a couple of meters of line.

Went well, all good, no stuffing around with pressures etc.

Did it from the fridge, but I reckon will go as well from an esky.


----------



## husky

Nothing special but it was the first time I have had the mini kegs out and they worked great. Managed to empty both kegs on xmas eve and then again on xmas day which left space to brew again on boxing day. These little kegs are going to allow me to brew more often if I can get the beer mobile and let others drink it! Also good to get feedback from non craft drinkers that homebrew can be good.
Served @ 4psi or so and only hooked up the reg when it wouldn't pour anymore. Used close to 2 x 16g to dispense both kegs but I lost a bit of gas when screwing the first one in.
Bit of ice in the bottom and served cold all day.


----------



## barls

poured a 5 and a 4 over christmas on one gas bulb. was very happy.


----------



## Mardoo

husky said:


> These little kegs are going to allow me to brew more often if I can get the beer mobile and let others drink it!


Precisely why I got these. No way my drinking can keep up with how often I want to brew.


----------



## VP Brewing

Just got this portable setup going. Cooler bag was $39 from Kmart.


----------



## EalingDrop

Xmas...
Double kegs in action.




Carbonation Cap used as a connector



Dunkleweizen (2.5 Co2/Vol)



Hefeweizen (3.3 Co2/Vol)



NYE...
Mini Keg with tap only (forgot to bring the regulator h34r.
Decided not to use PRV as needed the carbonation pressure to dispense. Slow pour and 5 minute intervals, managed to serve 3/4 of 5L.




Happy 2017 folks!


----------



## Batz

Really stoked with these, I bought them from Beerkat who currently have them on special. I believe they will be fantastic for a BBQ with a few mates, take the keg out of your fridge, fit the stubby holder and away you go.
Very well made and a great fit.
Never bought from Beerkat before so no affiliation blar blar. Just a happy customer.

$16.00 for the 5lt one.

http://www.beerkat.com.au/product/keg-cooler-sleeves-s1-89l-m-3-78l-l-5l/


----------



## LAGERFRENZY

Just ordered two of these babies - on special as Batz says and free shipping to Brisbane.


----------



## Batz

I like these too, didn't notice them at my order.


http://www.beerkat.com.au/product/carbonation-cap-25/


----------



## bevan

Thanks Batz for letting us know about those, just order my self 3 of the stubby holders [emoji106][emoji482]


----------



## Batz

LAGERFRENZY said:


> Just ordered two of these babies - on special as Batz says and free shipping to Brisbane.


Yes free shipping to capital cities, although worked for me as well. :beerbang:


----------



## nosco

Dam couldnt get free shipping. Pretty sure I am in metro Melbourne.


----------



## Schooner_downunder

nosco said:


> Dam couldnt get free shipping. Pretty sure I am in metro Melbourne.


I just got free shipping to Glen Iris (3146). Maybe try a Australia Post Parcel Locker.


----------



## Glomp

I got free shipping to Bendigo so it probably depends who their courier is and if they have an office in the town you live in


----------



## nosco

Schooner_downunder said:


> I just got free shipping to Glen Iris (3146). Maybe try a Australia Post Parcel Locker.


Sorted. Thanks SD!


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Sweet I just ordered 2x 5L. Will work well till I build my kegski


----------



## Bones99

Soooo, anyone else have a problem with the welding on the top plate where the side seam meets? 

Pretty pissed off at the moment as I just filled my second 5l with some goodness to take to a meet tomorrow, whacked the gas on and heard air escaping and beer bubbling at the seam.

I have video but don't know how to upload. Hopefully the pic will show enough.


----------



## Zorco

Photo shows it just fine mate. I heard there was one other and Mark sorted it in a day. I can't remember if you're in Brisbane. I've got two spare if you want to borrow mine.


----------



## Bones99

Thanks Zorco, yep in Brisbane but I have another (just have to drink the 2l in it which won't be a problem and then transfer across, ) I could just do without it tonight after an arse kicking at work all week and receiving 4 out of 6 SN tulips delivered broken yesterday..... when it rains...

Thanks for the offer though, you're a champ.


----------



## Zorco

That's a shit grouping of beer problems. Well, good that you've paid up front and have a trouble free 2017 to enjoy.



If something else random happens, give me a shout.


----------



## Bones99

Such 1st World problems I'm having.... 

Cheers mate, what's your mobile number so next time I can't get a taxi I'll give you a call


----------



## Zorco

Or if you pull a Swedish tourist and are feeling a bit too sleepy to make it back to hers....


----------



## Bones99

That will never happen... The sleepy bit that is


----------



## mattyg8

Anyone had any more luck with the mini rega had it replaced and just not responsive. Such a bummer as its an awesome kit!


----------



## SBOB

still waiting on some answers/feedback from Mark/Matt at ATHB
I had one replaced, but the replacement had the same issue

Others on here have had the same problem, but I havent seen a conclusive 'solution' yet


----------



## Zorco

Did you catch my post on unscrewing the bulb a bit. It improved flowrate a lot on that occasion. It may be possible the flow choke is happening at the bulb face from the barb.


----------



## barls

could it be the hole on the gasket being too small and when the bulb screwed up it closes the passage for gas down to a minimum


----------



## SBOB

Zorco said:


> Did you catch my post on unscrewing the bulb a bit. It improved flowrate a lot on that occasion. It may be possible the flow choke is happening at the bulb face from the barb.


yep,tried that on mine with zero difference...until i unscrewed it too far and then the co2 came out much faster, but not in the direction i wanted  )


----------



## Kingy

I fixed mine it was a combination of screwing the bulb in to tight and screwing the regulator in to tight. Backed them both off a little and away she went.


----------



## Kingy

I fixed mine it was a combination of screwing the bulb in to tight and screwing the regulator in to tight. Backed them both off a little and away she went.


----------



## koolkuna

Hey guys where do you buy those co2 regulators from?? They take those mini co2 cartridges yeah


----------



## barls

we bought them in the bulk buy that we did.
theres a new one running atm in the bulk buy section.


----------



## koolkuna

Ok I'll have a look I've never purchased anything on this site before


----------



## mtb

Hi all


Having a leak issue with my minikeg reg (the one we got in the bulk buy - photo below). The nut on the side directly opposite the pressure gauge leaks when I screw in a bulb, and by "leak", I mean the bulb empties in about two seconds. Tried tightening it but it doesn't tighten any more, any ideas?


----------



## Batz

I would say there is a rubber seal missing, should be fairly obvious.


----------



## mtb

If there's a rubber seal on yours, then there's not on mine.. and that explains everything. Time to find a replacement 
Cheers Batz


----------



## mtb

Replacement seal was supplied with the kit, all is well

edit: all is not well, CO2 escapes from the pinholes in the nut itself, adding a ring seal to the thread changed nothing


----------



## Batz

OK perhaps your talking about the thread sealed with thread tape?


----------



## mtb

This guy. The nut labelled 1.8K. CO2 gushes out of the pinholes on either side.


----------



## bevan

mtb said:


> Hi all
> 
> 
> Having a leak issue with my minikeg reg (the one we got in the bulk buy - photo below). The nut on the side directly opposite the pressure gauge leaks when I screw in a bulb, and by "leak", I mean the bulb empties in about two seconds. Tried tightening it but it doesn't tighten any more, any ideas?


Are you taking about a small plug that from memory has 1.5K (could be another number) stamped on it? When I pulled my dud one apart it looked like a over pressure safety relief valve. When you remove the plug there should be a little burst disc behind it. It could be missing


----------



## mtb

Got it in one bevan.. that disc is burst. Strange because I only ever use it to dispense, but then again, I have idiot friends who like to bugger about with my gauges.
Probably not a warranty job since it's "self-inflicted", what are my options?


----------



## bevan

Wow, it would take a lot of pressure (I'm assuming that 1.8K(1800) is psi because the gauge is in psi) to burst it. When the next BB happens I'm getting another minireg so you can have the burst disc out of my dud one if I can't get it to work.


----------



## mtb

I'd say it's 1800kPa because that's approx 260psi. Maybe I connected it to a force carbing keg at one point (I brew, keg and shitpost on AHB lots after a few brews)

edit: hold on.. I sure as hell don't force carb at 260psi either. I think the pressure safety disc thing broke a little prematurely.


----------



## bevan

I'll let know if I can't get it working, haven't tried the fixes that have been posted on here yet.


----------



## mtb

An obvious option is to manually seal the relief valve, but in accordance with AHB forum rules I won't discuss that further here. It would also introduce some tangible danger when using the regulator so I definitely won't be doing that while we search for a permanent solution.


----------



## barls

one of my first ones did something similar and was replaced.


----------



## mtb

Sent an inquiry via ATHB's website, fingers crossed.


----------



## hotmelt

Did you screw the bulb on upside down?Maybe liquid CO2 in regulator?

Lyrebird_Cycles

Posted Today, 06:24 PM




TJP said:


> What is the reason people say getting liquid co2 into a reg can kill it.


I believe that the problem is actually with the equipment downstream of the regulator. If the regulator is allowed to pass liquid CO2 and the liquid then vaporises it will produce high pressure gas. This gas is unregulated and may exceed the pressure rating of the equipment.

As an example, if the regulator allowed half the sodastream cylinder to empty into a 4 litre minikeg in your fridge, the vaporised gas would hit a pressure of nearly 3 MPa (about 400 PSI in Septic units). You'd want to know the PRV was working.


----------



## mtb

mtb said:


> Sent an inquiry via ATHB's website, fingers crossed.


..and 40min later I receive a reply from Mark arranging a replacement & return of the faulty reg. Can't speak highly enough of these guys.


----------



## Bones99

Mine did this the first time too, but it was a combination of not screwing the bulb in fast enough or hard enough and having it connected to the mini keg when I did it. 

I have since made sure I do it off the keg (with the regulator turned off/down to minimum) and screw the bulb in fast and fully. 

Mine seems to work now..

They are made for use with the bulb & can't be used with pressure over 35psi (or 32 can't remember but it's somewhere) but shouldn't break, that's what the pressure relief valve is there for.

Maybe give that a go before sending back.


----------



## mtb

Bones the problem is that the "pressure relief valve" is just a solid disc which appears to be designed to puncture in the event of over-pressure. Mine burst prematurely so the regulator now simply vents the bulb through the perforated disc


----------



## damoninja

Yob said:


> if you tare the keg on the scales, you can VERY accurately measure how full it is..
> 
> its really not that hard a process even without scales... you can just look in the top


My kegs all have their tare weight written on them, I keep a set of analogue scales under each of my kegs in the keezer, offset the tare before dropping a keg on and I'm done.


----------



## Mardoo

Yep, just had a night of geeky fun checking the tare of all my kegs and writing it on them. So much easier.


----------



## Hopsta

for those looking for a solution to hop these kegs, i picked up one of these from t2 today. fits nicely inside. havnt used it yet but looks like it will work perfectly.


----------



## Hopsta

its called a tea stick.


----------



## Batz

I would like to get my hands on a failed regulator if anyone has one.


----------



## mtb

ATHB has requested my faulty one in return for the replacement, but I'm happy to be a guinea pig while I wait for the return parcel


----------



## Batz

ATHB are going to send me one I believe.


----------



## peekaboo_jones

That's a bugger mtb.
Mine is working a treat, force carbed aswell. Took one bulb to carb up and put a new one in to dispense (5L).
I'm going to try naturally priming with my next batch.
Now I need to get some 19L Corny's and all that get up...


----------



## Batz

I have two and never had a problem, in fact one still has gas since Christmas.


----------



## brianman

Hi guys mini keg fridge, notice not my mini keg _*beer *_fridge, at the moment only two lines, think that will become three, 1 for carbing, 2 pouring, via a two way manifold, can squeeze three kegs on that shelf, not allowed any more space, hence mini kegs, still have stubbies as well, in the door.
The one on the right is one of the two initial kegging attempts, other been emtied, pours ok now the carbonation is under control, both sugar primed, way too much. The left one is another brew CO2 carbed, been doing a lot of research on carbonation, unfortunately a lot slips through. Anyway, i had it at 14-15psi for a couple of days, took it to 20psi for 8hrs yesterday, back to 12-13psi, poured ok yesterday, seemed a bit flat, hence 20psi, today another sample at 10psi ok but not very fast, upped psi to 15 no faster but then foam, aah f!!??k, over carbed i think. Took off gas, released pressure, sat on top of the fridge for 1/2hr and poured 200ml ok, so when to put back on the gas?


----------



## mtb

The problem with using these minikegs in a setup like yours is, you've got no length of beer line between your keg and tap. Most online forums/resources discussing kegging will assume that you have beer line - and beer line introduces resistance, so when your beer flows out the keg and to your tap, it "slows" down and pours nicely. Without beer line, you'll pour way faster, and all that nice carbonation is probably escaping immediately - hence your flat pour.

By upping/reducing your pressure so much it's hard to say whether you've overcarbed. Set your pressure to 5psi and pour a glass and let me know how it looks.


----------



## brianman

mtb said:


> The problem with using these minikegs in a setup like yours is, you've got no length of beer line between your keg and tap. Most online forums/resources discussing kegging will assume that you have beer line - and beer line introduces resistance, so when your beer flows out the keg and to your tap, it "slows" down and pours nicely. Without beer line, you'll pour way faster, and all that nice carbonation is probably escaping immediately - hence your flat pour.
> 
> By upping/reducing your pressure so much it's hard to say whether you've overcarbed. Set your pressure to 5psi and pour a glass and let me know how it looks.


Drinking a stubby at the mo, will have to wait a few minutes for a new pour. Yeah was thinking the other day about line length or lack of with mini kegs, wonder how they would go with more pick up tube twirled around the bottom?, i think with carbonation under control shouldn't need to, as the other one pours ok set at around 8psi, so maybe too much pressure, will find out shortly.
Have ordered new gauges 0-30psi for a bit more accuracy


----------



## EalingDrop

Did the flow control help?
Just keep pouring until you need to put the gas in. A few weeks ago I managed to dispense half a 5L keg on it's own (forgetting to bring the Mini Reg), and since then managed to dispense the rest of it also without additional gas.


----------



## peekaboo_jones

This is why I've got a bronco tap and if all continues to go well I'll get a good quality Pluto gun


----------



## brianman

EalingDrop said:


> Did the flow control help?
> Just keep pouring until you need to put the gas in. A few weeks ago I managed to dispense half a 5L keg on it's own (forgetting to bring the Mini Reg), and since then managed to dispense the rest of it also without additional gas.


Hi Ealing, the one on the right is pouring ok and that's where i leave the control, i think they help, wouldn't know for sure as don't have a normal tap, at 8psi pours ok. Stupid me, put gas on and poured, foam, could hear the gassing going on inside the keg, turned gas off started to pour ok, so will just release pressure or pour periodically.


----------



## brianman

peekaboo_jones said:


> This is why I've got a bronco tap and if all continues to go well I'll get a good quality Pluto gun


Hey peekaboo, someone else said they use a picnic tap with no problems, maybe they also carbonate correctly, i think that's a big secret with mini kegs and very little hose length.


----------



## Mr B

Ive used a pluto gun with ahh, 3?m of ermm 5?mm line at normal pressure and it worked great.

Basically follow the normal line guidelines and you can dispense at normal gas pressure - if you want to use a pluto etc.

I reckon just have the whole shebang in an esky. Or fit an esky with taps and requisite line.


----------



## Batz

I have a couple of flow control taps left after my downsize, these work great. The only problem being if you take, say two kegs to a party, someone has to fu#ck with the flow control on the taps!.

I have ordered a couple of bronco's form China, complete with disconnects and line for $15.00. Maybe a little more idiot proof, if not I'm the idiot that did $15.00. :lol:


----------



## nifty

Batz said:


> I have a couple of flow control taps left after my downsize, these work great. The only problem being if you take, say two kegs to a party, someone has to fu#ck with the flow control on the taps!.
> 
> I have ordered a couple of bronco's form China, complete with disconnects and line for $15.00. Maybe a little more idiot proof, if not I'm the idiot that did $15.00. :lol:








What a great photo...


----------



## Zorco

He has posted it three times so far.. I still don't get tired of it. 

Photo request:
1. Pils
2. Porter
3. Red
4. Amber

[emoji16]


----------



## Zorco

I dearly hope he hosts the 2018 Xmas swap


----------



## nosco

Schooner_downunder said:


> I just got free shipping to Glen Iris (3146). Maybe try a Australia Post Parcel Locker.


Anyone received their keg cooler yet? Still waiting on mine with confirmation of it being sent.


----------



## Glomp

I received mine within about 3 business days.


----------



## Schooner_downunder

nosco said:


> Anyone received their keg cooler yet? Still waiting on mine with confirmation of it being sent.


Mine arrived in 3- 4 days, works like a charm


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Mine arrived yesterday. 6 business days to Mitcham vic


----------



## nosco

All good. Beerkat contacted me today. Excellent customer service. Because i used a parcel locker they had to send via Aus Post. Which explains the delay


----------



## wambesi

Thought I'd show where my 5L mini-keg has gone.

I recently downsized from a five tap keezer to a MJ kegerator but with a four tap font as I wanted to use 9.5L kegs instead of 19L ones (lifting up and over gets to you after a while).

I was initially lying one 9.5L on it's side to fit but now I've got the fourth tap connected to the mini-keg (far right at back) which will be 5 litres of experimental beers I do (I brew 11.5 litre batches more often now).

The other bonus now is the shelf fits back in and I can fit the excess I bottle in there as well, meaning I will have more on offer.

Some may say it's not enough beer, but for my consumption it's great and means I get to brew more!


----------



## mofox1

Upgrades for both my beauties... Neoprene jackets and replaced the disconnects with 90° SS ones. Also added flow control shank extenders which also give the tap a bit more clearance past the keg.

Emptied one of these at the folks place today... No dramas, so much less fiddling around with the damn pressure settings. Means I don't have to pour every beer (and possibly why it got emptied!).

Edit - also stylish rubber band close mechanism.


----------



## peteru

Is that the KK flow control adaptor? How does it work? I thought that you could adjust the flow control on the fly, but then someone told me that you have to set it at installation time and can not change the flow rate without taking the disconnect off.


----------



## mofox1

peteru said:


> Is that the KK flow control adaptor? How does it work? I thought that you could adjust the flow control on the fly, but then someone told me that you have to set it at installation time and can not change the flow rate without taking the disconnect off.


The fluted ring between the tap and the disconnect rotates to adjust the flow restriction, and is secured in place via two grub screws. You don't need to remove the tap to adjust, although it is a tad fiddly. I was going to pick up flow control intertaps to replace the tap entirely, but these things were only $30 or something so it saved a good wad of cash and probably perform the same.

Note the pour isn't as perfect as from the keezer, I was getting about 1/4 glass foam, but it was consistent through the keg and didn't require any extra faffing about. Big improvement from no flow control so calling it a win.


----------



## SBOB

mofox1 said:


> Edit - also stylish rubber band close mechanism.


you should setup a bulk buy for these


----------



## Glomp

peteru said:


> Is that the KK flow control adaptor? How does it work? I thought that you could adjust the flow control on the fly, but then someone told me that you have to set it at installation time and can not change the flow rate without taking the disconnect off.


I bought 2 of the kegking flow controls also. They work perfectly and you could easily leave the tap permanently on and just use the flow control to turn the beer on and off. My beers at christmas poured perfectly and it takes only a few seconds to get people up to speed on them.


----------



## nosco

I havnt received my keg cooler yet and havnt heard from Aus Post. I did get a text message from Beerkat though to say the tracking said it arrived on Friday. Excellent customer service from Beerkat and all for a $16 free delivery mini keg cozy.


----------



## Brownsworthy

Nice stainless splashback Mofox, I'm so farking jealous!!! The misses wouldn't allow it said it would be to much cleaning...fark!


----------



## Mardoo

Well, I've done a few trials with these and keg hopping them. The flavour results have been good. Getting a hop sock out is very difficult, and usually results in holes in the sock. I myself will stay away from pellets in these as there's just far too much fine hop matter that gets sucked into the glass. Perhaps if I cut the tubes a bit shorter that would work better, but I'm really inclined at this point to stick to flowers and rig up some sort of excluder on the end of the dip tube.


----------



## malt junkie

Mardoo said:


> Well, I've done a few trials with these and keg hopping them. The flavour results have been good. Getting a hop sock out is very difficult, and usually results in holes in the sock. I myself will stay away from pellets in these as there's just far too much fine hop matter that gets sucked into the glass. Perhaps if I cut the tubes a bit shorter that would work better, but I'm really inclined at this point to stick to flowers and rig up some sort of excluder on the end of the dip tube.


hop bag fishing line tied to the top of the dip tube.... sure it'll work. :blink:


----------



## Mardoo

The difficulty is more in the size of the re-hydrated hop mass compared to the size of the opening, rather than not being able to get to the bag. For me, I bagged them for parties, so I didn't need to worry about getting the bag out before the keg blew. It's not like it was impossible to get it out, but I ripped holes in each of the socks I used. That, balanced with the problem of the hop dust getting in each glass, makes it a bit more fiddly than I need. It's good for testing out different hop combos, and seeing how the same beer can become significantly different with different hop combos. Completely different aspects of the beer get emphasized. For example, roast with one combo, yeast esters with another, malt with another. I have a couple ideas for different ways to do it. If I manage to locate something that works I'll definitely post.


----------



## mtb

Large tea bags would work pretty well, since you'd only be adding a small amount of hops
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/351705146565


----------



## nosco

Anyone find a good spring for the taps? Ive had no luck with the poppet springs i have. Might have to rig up the rubber band job.


----------



## peteru

I'm still using the Bunnings spring and it still works just fine, even though it's not stainless steel.


----------



## gezzanet

Took a 5l mini keg with a coopers in it to a mates on 17/12/16. 
When I filled it I gave it a shot at 14 psi. Took it to the BBQ. Released the pressure and served at 2psi with one bulb. 
I wound the mini Reg back to 0 and disconnected it and the tap from the keg and bought it home. I gave it a shot of co2 at 14 psi when I got home and stuck it in the fridge and went away for a few weeks
Today 25/1/17 I wound the minireg with the bulb still connected from before Xmas to 2psi and reconnected to the same 5 l keg. The Reg went up to 12 psi and I poured another beer
Win. 
Still gas in mini keg holds pressure fine and also enough in old bulb


----------



## damoninja

Someone mind sharing some dimensions so I can plan for the next bulk buy? 

Need to know how big an esky I'll need to put in 2 x 5L, I'm planning on mounting 2 taps in the side of the esky with the lid closed, so would need to be relatively high for an esky.

Mainly need to know how high the assembly is with the double ball lock, reg, plastic disconnects (without tap) 

Cheers!


----------



## SBOB

did anyone come up with a solution for the regulators with issues (apart from the suggestion of unscrewing the bulb a bit which did nothing for me)

I still have one dodgy/useless regulator from the two I bought last bulk buy


----------



## Nullnvoid

Can you lie these bad boys down in the fridge and still use them? Or do they need to be upright?


----------



## Batz

Nullnvoid said:


> Can you lie these bad boys down in the fridge and still use them? Or do they need to be upright?


Should be upright.


----------



## Nullnvoid

Cheers, that's what I thought, but a video on the ikegger site showed different. 

Upright it is.


----------



## Kingy

SBOB said:


> did anyone come up with a solution for the regulators with issues (apart from the suggestion of unscrewing the bulb a bit which did nothing for me)
> 
> I still have one dodgy/useless regulator from the two I bought last bulk buy


I thought I fixed mine by unscrewing the bulb a little as mentioned earlier in the thread but it only worked that once. I've given up on it. I've wasted to many bulbs on the f$*ker hoping it would work.


----------



## Zorco

SBOB said:


> did anyone come up with a solution for the regulators with issues (apart from the suggestion of unscrewing the bulb a bit which did nothing for me)
> 
> I still have one dodgy/useless regulator from the two I bought last bulk buy


That Barleywine I put aside for you is due to be posted. I'll send you one of my working regulators mate, just to see how it goes. If it works well, then I'll sort something out with Mark from ATHB!

This will definitely be sorted.


----------



## SBOB

Zorco said:


> That Barleywine I put aside for you is due to be posted. I'll send you one of my working regulators mate, just to see how it goes. If it works well, then I'll sort something out with Mark from ATHB!
> 
> This will definitely be sorted.


I already have one working one (i bought 2 in the last BB), so no need to send me one of yours..
I've emailed Mark to chase it up, as my last email to him was back in December.

And im not alone with regards to non-working ones, so wouldnt seem fair for you to send yours to me while someone like Kingy also has a non-working one.


----------



## All Things Homebrew

hey guys sorry been quiet on here have had too many other things to sort out.



SBOB said:


> did anyone come up with a solution for the regulators with issues (apart from the suggestion of unscrewing the bulb a bit which did nothing for me)
> 
> I still have one dodgy/useless regulator from the two I bought last bulk buy


how many other people are having the same issue, would be nice to get a ruff number on how many faulty Regulators there were in the bulk buy, so i can address the issue properly with the manufacture



Nullnvoid said:


> Can you lie these bad boys down in the fridge and still use them? Or do they need to be upright?


you can lie them down when not being used just keep the regulator disconnected, then stand upright when you want to use then, laying them down might get beer into the regulator which isnt going to be healthy, and also wont get great use of the dip-tube unless the kegs on an angle


----------



## EalingDrop

You can get away with 4/5 of it. Add a SS nut to weight down the end of your dip tube, but you can't get it all out. Also you can't use your PVR when it's lying down.


----------



## SBOB

All Things Homebrew said:


> how many other people are having the same issue, would be nice to get a ruff number on how many faulty Regulators there were in the bulk buy, so i can address the issue properly with the manufacture


not 100% sure but there have been a few posts by others, though I assumed they would have chased it up with you directly like i did

thanks for responding to my email, hopefully the replacement will be all good. Can't fault the support/service from you.


----------



## hotmelt

Kingy said:


> I thought I fixed mine by unscrewing the bulb a little as mentioned earlier in the thread but it only worked that once. I've given up on it. I've wasted to many bulbs on the f$*ker hoping it would work.


I've attached a barb to mine to enable me to dispense from one keg and carb another corny keg.Saves the bulbs for when I need them.


----------



## EalingDrop

So I stumbled across an old futon bed frame and decided I would make a mini bar for my kegs...

Using the existing Willow Esky (fits two 5L minikegs)



Triple coat of dark vanish ($20)



Not the best brush work 



Installed 2 cheap Chinese taps from ebay (european style flow control with 60mm shank, which unfortunately doesn't fit on to the Mini Keg tap adaptor).



The inner workings (Soda Stream > Adaptor > Mini Reg > SS disconnect > Carbonation Cap with barb > 2 way Gas manifold > Mini Keg).

,



Old Ikea blackboard for kids (mounted upside down h34r: ) functions as a back cover, also for marking the event ( M & A is for my brother's wedding - Not sure what to brew yet, wedding in March so I need to get my s**t together soon)



Overall I'm pleased with it. But I need help with foaming issues (thanks PeterU for your help mate, I still having found that SS disconnect!)


----------



## damoninja

EalingDrop said:


> Overall I'm pleased with it. But I need help with foaming issues (thanks PeterU for your help mate, I still having found that SS disconnect!)


The cheap flow control taps might do it? Have heard some shit about those, however true that is I dunno.

What PSI you dispensing at?


----------



## damoninja

hotmelt said:


> I've attached a barb to mine to enable me to dispense from one keg and carb another corny keg.Saves the bulbs for when I need them.
> 
> 
> 
> 20161217_152048.jpg


Huh? you have full tank pressure in your line???


----------



## EalingDrop

It was ok when the beer was around 4c in the beginning but when we came back 20 minutes later it was downhill from there :lol: , (using the 5L keg).
6 bar (but I was told the dial might be dodgy).

Also, we thought the silicon tube surface isn't very good for beer transfer either. 

As for the taps, I dunno either. It doesn't look any better or worst then the Brumby taps I got from the BB :huh: . I'll post some pics later and find out whether I've wasted more $$ on crap bay.


----------



## malt junkie

EalingDrop said:


> 6 bar (but I was told the dial might be dodgy).


Stop trying to make shiny things go bang! :angry:

6 bar, 600kpa, are you trying to kill someone?!?! 

80-90kpa probably less for these little beauties.

start with real low pressure flow control wide open then maybe notch it up a lil to get the pour right.


In all seriousness these kegs are rated somewhere around 450kpa (zorco and yob would have the exact number) over pressurising is well dangerous, Australia has probably some of the toughest regulations regarding pressure vessel in the world- with good reason. 
Be safe
Enjoy beer.


----------



## Zorco

Can't over pressurise with the spear/head. I tried. The PRV did its job.

Awesome EarlingDrop, really impressive.


----------



## EalingDrop

Sorry for the confusion. Just checked the photo (of the dial), it was showing 0.6 Bar NOT 6 Bar. 

Zorco, I'm glad you've tested the PVR so we don't have to!

As MJ mentioned, safety is imperative, and I absolutely don't advocate mods that go OTT, especially with 3 year olds around. 

To paint a fuller picture, we dialed the gas with the tap open only to control flow, as mentioned when the tap was turned off the guage showed 0.6 bar.


----------



## malt junkie

ah cool! Be careful though three year olds have a habit of pulling on tap handles and retreating quietly.... ask me how I know. Any foam issues could be down to the tap being hotter than the beer. (usually worse in summer)


----------



## mattyg8

Anyone have a link to the springs being used for auto close?


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Auto close the taps?
I just use a rubber band, works well. Looped and taped to the disconnect side so she doesn't come off


----------



## mofox1

mattyg8 said:


> Anyone have a link to the springs being used for auto close?


Apparently poppet springs from the universal posts are the go... haven't tried it myself tho. Rubber bands FTW.


----------



## damoninja

mofox1 said:


> Apparently poppet springs from the universal posts are the go... haven't tried it myself tho. Rubber bands FTW.


I have a few of these sitting about, will give a shot when my kit arrives


----------



## bradsbrew

Not that stylish just yet. The 1.89 beerkat with modified lid to take gas from harris reg. Using the sodastream adapter from the bulk buy.


----------



## nosco

Do different brand kegs fit different brand spears? Are they universal? Seeing lots of different deals around for different brand kegs and gear.


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Most of them look the same diameter eh!


----------



## All Things Homebrew

mattyg8 said:


> Anyone have a link to the springs being used for auto close?


 the image attached shows the spring i have used to auto close the bumby taps, they are poppet springs. they are a little stiff but do the job.



nosco said:


> Do different brand kegs fit different brand spears? Are they universal? Seeing lots of different deals around for different brand kegs and gear.


as far as i know the mini kegs in this bulk buy from The Beer Can, are the same dimensions and thread as iKegger and BeerKat, the doubled walled 2L growlers(not part of the bulk buy) are a different thread, and wont work with the spears in the bulk buy.


----------



## mattyg8

All Things Homebrew said:


> the image attached shows the spring i have used to auto close the bumby taps, they are poppet springs. they are a little stiff but do the job.
> 
> 
> as far as i know the mini kegs in this bulk buy from The Beer Can, are the same dimensions and thread as iKegger and BeerKat, the doubled walled 2L growlers(not part of the bulk buy) are a different thread, and wont work with the spears in the bulk buy.


Cheers will pick one up


----------



## GoodDuck

If using the Flow Control Shank Adaptors (keg king) poppet springs may be too long


----------



## Nullnvoid

I may be a little excited and I may have just read this whole thread in anticipation for getting my minikeg!


----------



## SBOB

SBOB said:


> not 100% sure but there have been a few posts by others, though I assumed they would have chased it up with you directly like i did
> 
> thanks for responding to my email, hopefully the replacement will be all good. Can't fault the support/service from you.


still cant fault the service, but second replacement regulator received today has the same issues on its first use...Did a quick test when it arrived and there was flow, but connecting it to a QD the next day had it barely flowing...
Using it shows barely any flow and with no disconnect attached it seems only flow (barely) when just under 'Low' on the regulator with no output between 'low' and 'high'

I have one working regulator and a barely flowing one will work for dispensing (at a pinch), so I'm gonna chalk this up to fate and not bother hassling Mark for a replacement


Mark should have a few 'dodgy' regs now, so hopefully he can donate one to someone mechanically minded to pull apart and try and determine what the 'weak' link is for those of us that have had issues (Batz? ).. Im sure its somehow related to the the diaphragm the dial on top is connected to and somehow its not letting flow past, rather than the screwing in of the bulb and that opening...

It could be something I'm doing wrong and the other reg I have is just impervious to whatever I'm doing, but screwing in a bulb and a QD and snapping it onto the keg seems pretty simple to me


----------



## Lionman

Saw these on ebay and would mind a couple.

Much easier to take to parties etc than the 20L kegs, and can fit an an esky easier. Great for camping, which we do a lot of.

Was thinking a couple fo these http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5L-Beer-Stainless-Steel-Mini-Keg-Growler-Mini-Keg-Style-Home-Brew-Brewing-NEW-/302054226546?hash=item4653d5ba72:g:kBoAAOSwZVlXwULr
and these for ball lock posts http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Stainless-Steel-Beer-Dispenser-Replace-For-Mini-Keg-Homebrew-Spear-Craft-Beer/192099943120?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20140106155344%26meid%3D4fdbcd0fb6d348b5b1e62f24fe69de8d%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D302054226546

Is there a cheaper way to do it though that doesn't cost $125 a pop? I already have a small CO2 cylinder with reg and a couple of picnic taps.


----------



## Zorco

Lionman said:


> Saw these on ebay and would mind a couple.
> 
> Much easier to take to parties etc than the 20L kegs, and can fit an an esky easier. Great for camping, which we do a lot of.
> 
> Was thinking a couple fo these http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/5L-Beer-Stainless-Steel-Mini-Keg-Growler-Mini-Keg-Style-Home-Brew-Brewing-NEW-/302054226546?hash=item4653d5ba72:g:kBoAAOSwZVlXwULr
> and these for ball lock posts http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Stainless-Steel-Beer-Dispenser-Replace-For-Mini-Keg-Homebrew-Spear-Craft-Beer/192099943120?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20140106155344%26meid%3D4fdbcd0fb6d348b5b1e62f24fe69de8d%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D302054226546
> 
> Is there a cheaper way to do it though that doesn't cost $125 a pop? I already have a small CO2 cylinder with reg and a couple of picnic taps.


Search in the AHB forums for MKI or MKII or MKIII or MKIV


----------



## Zorco

SBOB said:


> still cant fault the service, but second replacement regulator received today has the same issues on its first use...Did a quick test when it arrived and there was flow, but connecting it to a QD the next day had it barely flowing...
> Using it shows barely any flow and with no disconnect attached it seems only flow (barely) when just under 'Low' on the regulator with no output between 'low' and 'high'
> 
> I have one working regulator and a barely flowing one will work for dispensing (at a pinch), so I'm gonna chalk this up to fate and not bother hassling Mark for a replacement
> 
> 
> Mark should have a few 'dodgy' regs now, so hopefully he can donate one to someone mechanically minded to pull apart and try and determine what the 'weak' link is for those of us that have had issues (Batz? ).. Im sure its somehow related to the the diaphragm the dial on top is connected to and somehow its not letting flow past, rather than the screwing in of the bulb and that opening...
> 
> It could be something I'm doing wrong and the other reg I have is just impervious to whatever I'm doing, but screwing in a bulb and a QD and snapping it onto the keg seems pretty simple to me


This is not normal. Send me one. also, email me. i did a short video of my issue for Mark a while back. ill send it to you.


----------



## SBOB

Zorco said:


> This is not normal. Send me one. also, email me. i did a short video of my issue for Mark a while back. ill send it to you.


yeah, im assuming its not normal

Mark has said he will send one of them to Batz who offered to pull one apart and see whats going on inside

And yeah, send me the vid and ill see if its the same as what this current one is doing


----------



## Zorco

You've got my email address, but I don't have yours.


----------



## SBOB

Zorco said:


> You've got my email address, but I don't have yours.


you do now


----------



## Kingy

I got a replacement sent to me and initial testing it has worked. I'm yet to use it to dispense tho.


----------



## Zorco

Attached is a video I made and just shared with SBOB. Why not post it.

Apologies, Apple rotated and compressed it badly. But it shows what's going on. 

View attachment IMG_0833.MOV


----------



## Kingy

Kingy said:


> I got a replacement sent to me and initial testing it has worked. I'm yet to use it to dispense tho.


Just hooked her up to dispense and this regulator is doing weird shit just like the other one. The same as your video zorco. Except sometimes it does nothing then it will shoot up off the scale but when you depress the needle in the disconnect hardly any pressure comes out. I know it's not marks fault but I'm done with these regulators. I'll be rigging up a soda stream with a regulator hopefully that way will be more reliable.


----------



## SBOB

Without the disconnect attached is the flow out of the reg really pathetic? 

I think the issue sounds the same as what I have seen on the 3 duds


----------



## Lionman

I just use a normal reg on a 400g bottle. 

It's not as compact but it's reliable. And it's only $15 to swap out a 400g bottle at the LHBS.


----------



## Kingy

SBOB said:


> Without the disconnect attached is the flow out of the reg really pathetic?
> 
> I think the issue sounds the same as what I have seen on the 3 duds


Yea just took it off and the c02 only comes out (slow) when the dial is in one position. But that position changes the next time I look for it if that makes sense.


----------



## Mardoo

Not sure, but I may have one of these regs too.


----------



## SBOB

Kingy said:


> Yea just took it off and the c02 only comes out (slow) when the dial is in one position. But that position changes the next time I look for it if that makes sense.


the only coming out barely, and only at one position, is exactly what mines doing at the moment...
didnt f*ck around with it enough to see if the position varied (but it seemed to be pretty much just below 'low' on the dial)

there must be some kind of common issue with the diaphragm inside these


----------



## Batz

I really need to look at one of these, please contact me before sending Mark.

Regulators are a fairly simple bit of gear, I did work in a section reconditioning B.O.C. ones in my youth. Boring as batz shit, moved to something more challenging in the plant quickly as possible.
I sure I can find out the problem with these, _remember_ what you pay for a industrial regulator compared to these little things.

Batz


----------



## SBOB

Batz said:


> I really need to look at one of these, please contact me before sending Mark.
> 
> Regulators are a fairly simple bit of gear, I did work in a section reconditioning B.O.C. ones in my youth. Boring as batz shit, moved to something more challenging in the plant quickly as possible.
> I sure I can find out the problem with these, _remember_ what you pay for a industrial regulator compared to these little things.
> 
> Batz


will be interesting to see someone pull one apart
While built to a price, hopefully identifying the common issue can lead to a possible DIY solution


----------



## Batz

SBOB said:


> will be interesting to see someone pull one apart
> While built to a price, hopefully identifying the common issue can lead to a possible DIY solution


Good ones work well, so let sort it out.


----------



## Lethaldog

Zorco said:


> Attached is a video I made and just shared with SBOB. Why not post it.
> 
> Apologies, Apple rotated and compressed it badly. But it shows what's going on.


i have two but so far have only used one and that's exactly the way mine behaved, will have to try the other one but so far seems I have at least one defective one also!


----------



## Zorco

Batz said:


> Good ones work well, so let sort it out.


My hunch is that it might have to do with the puncturing barb. Somehow it might be restricting flow into the regulator body.


----------



## Coalminer

Zorco said:


> My hunch is that it might have to do with the puncturing barb. Somehow it might be restricting flow into the regulator body.


Might have something there
I just replaced a bulb and started to get the same problem on a regulator previously working well
As I backed off the tightness of the bulb it seemed to start working properly


----------



## Zorco

It just occurred to me to ask, does anyone who adapted a sodastream cylinder to the regulator have this issue?


----------



## SBOB

Zorco said:


> My hunch is that it might have to do with the puncturing barb. Somehow it might be restricting flow into the regulator body.


maybe, but i'm seeing the current behaviour on my new reg from its initial bulb connection
- Opened pack, connected bulb, turned reg dial and flowed fine for my quick 1 second test..
- Next day, attached QD and went to use for dispensing... barely any flow and inaccurate dial control
- Removed QD and tested flow again...barely any flow and inaccurate dial control

so for the current bulb attached, it worked on day 0 for a quick 1 second test but now doesnt when I tried to use it for 'real'...


----------



## Zorco

This reg is good. New bulb for testing.

When blocking flow the needle moves quickly, perfectly.

When I let go, of course pressure drops to atmosphere but flow rate is slow- really slow, but I don't think this a flaw. I think these puny regulators are for slow dispensing of the beer and nothing else. Carb with your main cylinder and when ready to dispense let it trickle out.

I wonder if this is the same with the soda stream adaptation.


----------



## peekaboo_jones

My beer flow is also slow, with the reg set to 5psi and slightly adjust if it drops and stops flowing.
Doesn't bother me at all, works really well.
I'm about to naturally carb two of my 5L today, will leave for a couple of weeks then fridge them. Thinking this will reduce my 16g bulb consumption!


----------



## SBOB

Zorco said:


> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1486865169.873392.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1486865207.937661.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1486865254.569764.jpg
> 
> This reg is good. New bulb for testing.


though my 'good' reg flows fast

The 'not good' ones dont flow fast enough to maintain continual pours (I use my 5L for friday lunches at work.. so its pretty much pouring all 5L one after the other)


----------



## rncw

Anyone having ongoing issues with residue and metallic taste in these kegs?

I've thrown every homebrew cleaning method I can think of at mine:

Several washes with hot water + dishwashing detergent
Soak for several hours with PBW
Soak for a few hours with TSP
Soak overnight with TSP
Soak for a few hours with caustic soda
The end result wiping the inside edge of the keg after all of this is attached. It looked much worse to begin with.

Beer tastes fine for a week or two but gradually starts to get a metallic taste. Same beer in its original corny keg is fine. I've been using and cleaning corny kegs for several years (used and new) and never encountered anything like it.


----------



## Grott

SBOB said:


> so its pretty much pouring all 5L one after the other)


Is that really a bad thing?  :beerbang:


----------



## mofox1

rncw said:


> Anyone having ongoing issues with residue and metallic taste in these kegs?
> 
> I've thrown every homebrew cleaning method I can think of at mine:
> 
> Several washes with hot water + dishwashing detergent
> Soak for several hours with PBW
> Soak for a few hours with TSP
> Soak overnight with TSP
> Soak for a few hours with caustic soda
> The end result wiping the inside edge of the keg after all of this is attached. It looked much worse to begin with.
> 
> Beer tastes fine for a week or two but gradually starts to get a metallic taste. Same beer in its original corny keg is fine. I've been using and cleaning corny kegs for several years (used and new) and never encountered anything like it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> keg-grease.jpg


Yuck. Yes - mine still develop a metallic taste after a while. So far I've only got one solution for that: :chug:

Best bet might be to go for a BBQ degreaser, followed by the normal rinsing, perc soaking etc.

Edit: First post too, so welcome rncw... you've been lurking for a few years!


----------



## Zorco

Legendary lurkers..... come out and be known!!! 

On topic, I only dispense from a main keg for drinking that night or next day. As such, never experienced a taste change.


----------



## peteru

BBQ cleaner is usually caustic soda mixed with scents and surfactants.

I think you will need to passivate the stainless steel. This involves the use of acid, but I couldn't give you specific instructions. I'm sure there are people on the forums who could.


----------



## Lionman

This stuff will probably help

http://www.barkeepersfriend.com.au/

can you actually get your hand in these things to clean them?


----------



## peteru

Lionman said:


> can you actually get your hand in these things to clean them?


No. I think the diameter of the opening is somewhere around 35mm.


----------



## Lionman

peteru said:


> No. I think the diameter of the opening is somewhere around 35mm.


Green scourers are meant to be good, if you could attach one to some type of tool to reach in and polish the inside a bit it would likely help a lot.

Barkeepers friend will also passivise the stainless steel which is important for maintaining its stainless-ness.


----------



## rncw

Thanks guys. Looks like I might try a soak with Bar Keepers Friend next.

No chance of getting a hand inside to scrub them clean. Really need to find a cleaning solution that does the work for me. I've thought of maybe a growler cleaning brush or something though that's an investment in something that I probably wouldn't use ever again.

Yeah, long-time lurker. Thanks for the welcome


----------



## Zorco

peteru said:


> No. I think the diameter of the opening is somewhere around 35mm.


----------



## Batz

This stuff will clean it, works a treat on all home.brew equipment. I mix a small quantity in with my sodium perc., better and much cheaper than PBW.

https://www.bunnings.com.au/tricleanium-110g-all-purpose-cleaner-sachet_p1670280


----------



## Lionman

rncw said:


> Thanks guys. Looks like I might try a soak with Bar Keepers Friend next.
> 
> No chance of getting a hand inside to scrub them clean. Really need to find a cleaning solution that does the work for me. I've thought of maybe a growler cleaning brush or something though that's an investment in something that I probably wouldn't use ever again.
> 
> Yeah, long-time lurker. Thanks for the welcome


There are a lot of different style brushes on ebay for around a dollar. Not a big investment.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Bottle-Cup-Sponge-Brush-Glass-Tube-Retractable-Cleaner-Kitchen-Cleaning-Tool-/172417122057?hash=item2824dc7f09:g:F0AAAOSwB09YM6a1


----------



## rncw

Yeah might look at brushes a bit closer. I was looking at larger brushes designed for corny kegs or growlers from homebrew sites that seem to be in the $15-20+ range.



Batz said:


> This stuff will clean it, works a treat on all home.brew equipment. I mix a small quantity in with my sodium perc., better and much cheaper than PBW.
> 
> https://www.bunnings.com.au/tricleanium-110g-all-purpose-cleaner-sachet_p1670280


Tried Tricleanium several times at different strengths and soak lengths. Did a better job than PBW and definitely made a difference but far from got all of it and the metallic taste doesn't go away. Most concerning to me is the weld between the sides and conical top. It's anything but smooth.


----------



## Liam_snorkel

This is a little bit concerning. I was planning on using he ones I bought for semi-long term storage of strong beers (in the kegerator)


----------



## peekaboo_jones

It's obviously an issue, why not send it back rather than waste time?


----------



## Zorco

rncw said:


> Yeah might look at brushes a bit closer. I was looking at larger brushes designed for corny kegs or growlers from homebrew sites that seem to be in the $15-20+ range.
> 
> 
> Tried Tricleanium several times at different strengths and soak lengths. Did a better job than PBW and definitely made a difference but far from got all of it and the metallic taste doesn't go away. Most concerning to me is the weld between the sides and conical top. It's anything but smooth.


But many many are excellent. Send a photo to Mark mate.


----------



## Zorco

Liam_snorkel said:


> This is a little bit concerning. I was planning on using he ones I bought for semi-long term storage of strong beers (in the kegerator)


Only a few people out of a hundred have mentioned this. 

Concern less, science more


----------



## Zorco

I'll mention this to Mark if I get him today.

Tried to call once yesterday but time had to be shared with clients.


----------



## Zorco

This might be the reason

http://www.livescience.com/4233-coins-smell.html


----------



## Zorco

Perhaps the mammoth cleaning regime imposed on the steel inadvertently cleans the human and thus the smell goes away...

Only a bus trip hypothesis


----------



## Mardoo

Really gotta stop getting small and climbing inside the kegs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPgurvq6MIU


----------



## rncw

peekaboo_jones said:


> It's obviously an issue, why not send it back rather than waste time?


I wanted to throw it out there to everyone that has these kegs to figure out if it's a problem that warrants a different cleaning method, a replacement keg or a refund and forget the kegs altogether.

Don't really want to dick around with returns and/or replacements if there's an easy solution out there.


----------



## EalingDrop

I've got a pale ale which I've had in the 4L mini kegs for about 5 months, and the same beer in a bottle. Will do a side by side (maybe PeterU can help out).

I know it's not the best style to keep for long (bottle or keg) but in any case it's a light style of beer and any strange taste will show up. Hopefully it's just crap beer and they both turn out equally s**t!!


----------



## LAGERFRENZY

rncw said:


> I wanted to throw it out there to everyone that has these kegs to figure out if it's a problem that warrants a different cleaning method, a replacement keg or a refund and forget the kegs altogether.
> 
> Don't really want to dick around with returns and/or replacements if there's an easy solution out there.


I finally found a post in which Mardoo reported metallic tastes in beer that had been in his mini kegs for a week or more. Post 112:

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/93045-mini-keg-discussion-mods-show-off-dedicated-thread/page-6

I think he use Tricleanium and other products - might be worth a PM to him to see if it was resolved.


----------



## Mardoo

Seemed to be. I cleaned out the kegs and taps with tricleanium, pbw and Starsan, with both cold long soaks and and hour at 60C for the tricleanium and pbw. I haven't yet had the problem again. I wanted to test with a hefe I have on tap, but couldn't resolve the carb level and pouring issues. I need to get flow control taps before I can test with that beer, but by then it will be long gone.


----------



## mofox1

Mardoo... Unless you are keen on forking out for flow control taps, have a look at the shank flow restrictors from keg king.

They were around $30 from memory, and as a plus they give the tap a little extra horizontal reach.


----------



## mattyg8

Got my reg replaced and worked fine for one time, now it seems to be playing up. When I turn the dial it jumps from 5psi to 10psi and so on. Also after 3-4 pours after turning to off and back on the dial will not move as if the bulb is empty but then I unscrew it and it pours out Co2


----------



## Zorco

One time? Was it one session (a full keg) or one CO2 bulb?

Or only the first ever pressurisation?


----------



## mattyg8

Zorco said:


> One time? Was it one session (a full keg) or one CO2 bulb?
> 
> Or only the first ever pressurisation?


I transferred already carbed beer from my keg. First session of using it no issue, dial moved smoothly. For second session it started to just jump when turning the dial, Still worked for first 3 pours. Usually I turn the dial off after each pour, The next pour the dial did not move at all and I though I must have had a leak and that the bulb was empty as I just added a poppet spring to the tap. 
The bulb was this pretty full.


----------



## mstrelan

Try screwing the bulb in tighter, caught me out the first time as it wasn't fully penetrating the cap.


----------



## Zorco

I want to eliminate the bulb as a cause of problems...

Does anyone with a soda stream configuration have this issue?

It would be a huge help to know. That's why I'm buying one. I never intended to, but with so many problems we need answers


----------



## mattyh77

Zorco said:


> I want to eliminate the bulb as a cause of problems...
> 
> Does anyone with a soda stream configuration have this issue?
> 
> It would be a huge help to know. That's why I'm buying one. I never intended to, but with so many problems we need answers


I've had the issue with both bulbs and soda stream bottles. 
Didn't get mine in the BB. Got it from IKegger but it's the same regulator.


----------



## phildo

Zorco said:


> It just occurred to me to ask, does anyone who adapted a sodastream cylinder to the regulator have this issue?


Yes, I attached a soda stream bottle after issue with the bulbs. I managed to dispense one keg before the issue reoccured with the sodastream bottle attached


----------



## Parks

I only used my regulator for the second time on the weekend and it's doing similarly - it sometimes goes up to 5PSI then basically stops and goes back to zero.

Still full CO2 bulb.

Have you guys been sending them back to Mark?


----------



## nosco

Has anyone tried taking a mini keg to a byo eatery?


----------



## Mardoo

Oooo, now you're talking!


----------



## earle

nosco said:


> Has anyone tried taking a mini keg to a byo eatery?


Not yet but in the past I've seen people at BYO places with commercial 5L mini kegs. These mini kegs are pretty slick so shouldn't be a problem, maybe at real upmarket places but they tend to be licensed anyway.


----------



## gezzanet

Mardoo said:


> Seemed to be. I cleaned out the kegs and taps with tricleanium, pbw and Starsan, with both cold long soaks and and hour at 60C for the tricleanium and pbw. I haven't yet had the problem again. I wanted to test with a hefe I have on tap, but couldn't resolve the carb level and pouring issues. I need to get flow control taps before I can test with that beer, but by then it will be long gone.


Just cleaned out one that I still had a litre in since Xmas. Rubbed the inside with paper and it came out black. Silicone hose looked like attached picture. Like it's picked up metallics and beer stain. Did the overnight pbw wash and starsan. Might give it a hit with tricleanium tonight and then a high conc starsan to see how it goes. 
Looks like short term ok but long term storage might not be?


----------



## Liam_snorkel

hmmm :unsure:


----------



## Batz

nosco said:


> Has anyone tried taking a mini keg to a byo eatery?


Yes our local eatery, but then you can do anything you like in Kin Kin.


----------



## Digga

gezzanet said:


> Just cleaned out one that I still had a litre in since Xmas. Rubbed the inside with paper and it came out black. Silicone hose looked like attached picture. Like it's picked up metallics and beer stain. Did the overnight pbw wash and starsan. Might give it a hit with tricleanium tonight and then a high conc starsan to see how it goes.
> Looks like short term ok but long term storage might not be?
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1488434043.477609.jpg


Wow I've had some red ale in a keg since before Xmas it's now in the keg fridge on tap. Might have to pour it and see what's it's like. It's only had 4 beers out of it because I took it to work and had the same beer in big kegs that I drank first.

What was the beer style? Looks rather dark!

Seems strange that it would do that. I have carbed and drank from growlers months later with no issue. Surely the metal isn't of that low quality.


----------



## gezzanet

Actually an APA. Black was from keg I think. Possibly manufacturing? Anyway. I'll clean it up and see how it goes


----------



## Batz

gezzanet said:


> Just cleaned out one that I still had a litre in since Xmas. Rubbed the inside with paper and it came out black. Silicone hose looked like attached picture. Like it's picked up metallics and beer stain. Did the overnight pbw wash and starsan. Might give it a hit with tricleanium tonight and then a high conc starsan to see how it goes.
> Looks like short term ok but long term storage might not be?
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1488434043.477609.jpg


Personally I think it's the silicone hose. There's no way I would keg a beer in a 19lt keg and drop a bit of silicone hose in there for two months.


----------



## Digga

So if you are planning on longterm storage would beer line be a better option?


----------



## Coalminer

Have not had the black discolouration of the minikegs as yet (have not checked them all) but I did get that dark discolouration in one of my silicon tubes
They also turn an opaque colour when soaked in PBW or TSP
Also found out it's not a great idea to bulk prime them and screw the cap on without some lube on the thread or some form of PRV


----------



## damoninja

Coalminer said:


> Also found out it's not a great idea to bulk prime them and screw the cap on without some lube on the thread or some form of PRV


Minced the seal up when unscrewing it?


----------



## Coalminer

damoninja said:


> Minced the seal up when unscrewing it?


No, stainless threads bind on itself unless lubricant used (or threadtape)
Had to remove the caps with multigrips (probably the pressure buildup didn't help either)


----------



## earle

bradsbrew said:


> Not that stylish just yet. The 1.89 beerkat with modified lid to take gas from harris reg. Using the sodastream adapter from the bulk buy.


What mod do you need to do on the lid Brad? Is it as simple as pushing the gasline onto the gas-in thread instead of the co2 injector?


----------



## bradsbrew

Yes, obviously needs a clamp, but that is all that's required.


----------



## Lionman

Digga said:


> So if you are planning on longterm storage would beer line be a better option?


I would only use silicone where high-temperature resistance is needed.


----------



## Grott

Lionman said:


> I would only use silicone where high-temperature resistance is needed.


Or to transfer beer fermenter to keg, keg to keg etc then rinsed straight after.


----------



## earle

bradsbrew said:


> Yes, obviously needs a clamp, but that is all that's required.


Thanks. I'm thinking the other end of a short length of tube could be put onto the barb of a spare carb cap for a ghetto post set-up.


----------



## phildo

gezzanet said:


> Just cleaned out one that I still had a litre in since Xmas. Rubbed the inside with paper and it came out black. Silicone hose looked like attached picture. Like it's picked up metallics and beer stain. Did the overnight pbw wash and starsan. Might give it a hit with tricleanium tonight and then a high conc starsan to see how it goes.
> Looks like short term ok but long term storage might not be?
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1488434043.477609.jpg


I'm thinking of making up a stainless dip tube in place of the silicon hose


----------



## phildo

On the topic of the mini regs I placed a small o ring between the bulb and the reg. It worked for the first bulb and not for the second. I think that I might give up on the idea and just get a second dual guage reg and use the sodastream bottle configuration.


----------



## Zorco

phildo said:


> I'm thinking of making up a stainless dip tube in place of the silicon hose


Ummmmm, yes please.

You can make something that screws into the threaded barb?


----------



## phildo

Zorco said:


> Ummmmm, yes please.
> You can make something that screws into the threaded barb?


I'm going to talk to the fitters at work to determine if threading the tube directly or using a flange and locking nut would be a better approach


----------



## Fraser's BRB

Sigh, been off here for some time, came back hoping to find an easy answer to the great mini-reg problem of 2016.

Sadly no luck by the looks of it. Might have to get a big reg and go soda-stream.


----------



## SBOB

Yeah, no progress there.... Not sure whether any of the broken ones which have been returned have been dissected or one sent to someone like batz who offered to investigate the behaviour..


----------



## Zorco

I have been sent three new regulators for bench testing and comparison with mine. Spending a box of bulbs just to ensure they allow flow.

So far all is good. I have my dodgy on which I will open up as well as Batz.

You will be sent a working one or two this week SBOB


----------



## Zorco

Fraser's BRB said:


> Sigh, been off here for some time, came back hoping to find an easy answer to the great mini-reg problem of 2016.
> 
> Sadly no luck by the looks of it. Might have to get a big reg and go soda-stream.


I don't think these are fixable or tweakable. I think problems are manufacturer errors.


----------



## Zorco

And no concerns with Mark IMHO. I have been incredibly busy and sleep deprived. Catching up still but progress nonetheless.


----------



## Zorco

Some of the tests on these three regs I have include inverting the bulb so liquid CO2 passes directly into the reg.... aiming to break it. I end up seeing solid CO2 in chunks spit out the LP side at the moment so these three seem all good.


----------



## Parks

Zorco - mine is faulty too. What's the process to get it replaced? Go through you or straight to Mark?


----------



## Zorco

I think what I am doing is coming up with a short test procedure and being a fresh set of eyes on the issue. I'm not a partner for ATHB, but just helping with the quality and product integrity concern.

SBOB is the first priority due to his shit experience. 

To answer you more directly mate, I'd say you go through Mark in the first instance. If SBOB is happy with his and I have two good ones left over then of course you should get one from the pool I have.


----------



## Zorco

Agreement with Mark is required, he is honouring warranty and is having the subsequent conversations with the supplier


----------



## Parks

Sweet. I guess the issue is I don't have a receipt but he knows about them.


----------



## Zorco

You will be fine Parks.


----------



## Zorco

Problem Discussion Thread: Mini Keg Regulators

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/94448-problem-discussion-thread-mini-keg-regulators/


----------



## Liam_snorkel

Currently the MFL nut on my mini regular is positioned such that the reg is upside down when connected tight to the gas disconnect. 
The shitty old keg king regulator that I no longer use had a swivel connector, I've ripped it out and placed next to the reg in the 2nd pic. Does anyone know what this part is called, and if there would be an issue with me replacing the existing connector?


----------



## Liam_snorkel

looks like this is the piece:
https://ikegger.com/collections/accessories/products/m8-to-mfl-swivel-adapter


----------



## earle

Liam_snorkel said:


> looks like this is the piece:
> https://ikegger.com/collections/accessories/products/m8-to-mfl-swivel-adapter


I was looking for these yesterday. The Ikegger one was the only I could find sold separately.


----------



## mattyh77

For those who want to lay your mini keg down in your fridge. 
https://www.ikegger.com/collections/accessories/products/gas-disconnect-with-check-valve


----------



## mstrelan

Liam_snorkel said:


> Currently the MFL nut on my mini regular is positioned such that the reg is upside down when connected tight to the gas disconnect.


Me too, but only on the disconnect supplied by BeerKat. Two other disconnects were the right way up.


----------



## bradsbrew

mattyh77 said:


> For those who want to lay your mini keg down in your fridge.
> https://www.ikegger.com/collections/accessories/products/gas-disconnect-with-check-valve


Just spun the wheel on their website, if anyone wants the code to get a 4L keg for $39.50 send a pm.


----------



## Liam_snorkel

mstrelan said:


> Me too, but only on the disconnect supplied by BeerKat. Two other disconnects were the right way up.


interesting.

I've fitted the KK swivel connector to one of my mini regs and it works like a charm. All praise be to teflon tape


----------



## phildo

Liam_snorkel said:


> interesting.
> 
> I've fitted the KK swivel connector to one of my mini regs and it works like a charm. All praise be to teflon tape


I got my mini regs from ikegger and it shipped with the swivel adapter. I have also found that it is standard with chargers. I have given up on the craptasic mini regs in favour of using a normal 2 guage combined with a sodastream bottle because in my situation and opinion (not speaking for anyone else lol) 16g is pretty pointless for anything other than emergency dispensing or the odd occasion when it might be impractical to carry a sodastream bottle attached to a much more reliable and flexible dual guage.


----------



## phildo

bradsbrew said:


> Just spun the wheel on their website, if anyone wants the code to get a 4L keg for $39.50 send a pm.


Another thing that folks whom would like to lay down in the fridge should look at is attaching a stainless clunk to the silicone hose. If you combine the clunk with the check valve and a picnic tap you would have a sweet set up right there because it could stay layed down.


----------



## Liam_snorkel

Liam_snorkel said:


> looks like this is the piece:
> https://ikegger.com/collections/accessories/products/m8-to-mfl-swivel-adapter





earle said:


> I was looking for these yesterday. The Ikegger one was the only I could find sold separately.


Turns out it is the incorrect part. 

Ikegger swivel on the left, supplied part on the right.


----------



## earle

Ah, the ikegger was what I wanted though. To connect a CO2 injector with M8 outlet to a MFL thread on a gas disconnect.


----------



## Liam_snorkel

good news for you then 

I'm now after a 1/8NPT male to M8 female connector.


----------



## GoodDuck

Has anyone had any success with removing the black film from inside of these?
When rubbing my finger on the conical inside surface, this film looks silvery on a dry keg, black when it's wet.


----------



## Liam_snorkel

I got mine from beerkat and haven't noticed the black film.
I also gave them a hot sodium perc soak and rinse before using.


----------



## GoodDuck

Multiple hot soaks with sodium perc and Tricleanium have not helped much.
If anyone has had success with either / both, what dilution ratios did you use?


----------



## bradsbrew

I have not noticed this film on the beercat ones, however upon reading this, I have sat my mini kegs on the stove top and boiled them with sod perc for 15 minutes then let soak for 48rs before rinsing.


----------



## Zeener

Does anybody happen to know how much the ball lock spears weigh? 

Thanks


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Approximately 500g
I haven't got one to give you a firm weight but I have been looking at them and about to pull the trigger on buying a couple of 4 litre mini keg set ups from China.


----------



## Liam_snorkel

I'll weigh one when I get home tonight, if nobody beats me to it. They are fairly hefty for the size.


----------



## BKBrews

I didn't see this thread and all of the issues before now, but I have a 5L mini keg that never worked from the start and I just decided they were no good and stopped using it. I went through about 5 bulbs without a single pour (yes, I checked for leaks in every possible way). Then I got broken into and they stole the ball lock head, about 30 bulbs, tap and regulator, so I'm just left with a useless 5L keg


----------



## Batz

BKBrews said:


> I didn't see this thread and all of the issues before now, but I have a 5L mini keg that never worked from the start and I just decided they were no good and stopped using it. I went through about 5 bulbs without a single pour (yes, I checked for leaks in every possible way). Then I got broken into and they stole the ball lock head, about 30 bulbs, tap and regulator, so I'm just left with a useless 5L keg


Put it up for sale here if you don't want it, always someone looking for another.


----------



## BKBrews

Batz said:


> Put it up for sale here if you don't want it, always someone looking for another.


Might not be a bad idea... Probably going to replace it with a 9.5L ball lock keg when my insurance comes through anyway.


----------



## All Things Homebrew

Zeener said:


> Does anybody happen to know how much the ball lock spears weigh?
> 
> Thanks



just the ball lock spear by itself in its box with spare seals weighs in at 490g on my scales, if you wants plastic disconnects and a bumby tap to go with it then its 800g


----------



## Zeener

All Things Homebrew said:


> just the ball lock spear by itself in its box with spare seals weighs in at 490g on my scales, if you wants plastic disconnects and a bumby tap to go with it then its 800g


fantastic! thanks!!


----------



## Jack of all biers

Liam_snorkel said:


> I got mine from beerkat and haven't noticed the black film.
> I also gave them a hot sodium perc soak and rinse before using.


I did the same with my Beerkat 5L mini-kegs and no black film (which has to be metal corrosion of some sort surely). I have two kegs that are currently naturally carbonating at the moment and will be cracked in a week or so, but the posts here about the bulk buy ones makes me hope Beerkat don't have theirs from the same supplier. Time will tell I guess.


----------



## mstrelan

My BK one definitely had black film. When I first got it I cleaned with PBW then Star San the filled with beer. Beer was good that night but tasted metallic 36 hours later. Have cleaned since then with BKF and more Star San, which is when I noticed the black film. Haven't had a chance to use it since then.


----------



## Liam_snorkel

I'll keep an eye on mine. Currently got a crazy peat smoked beer in one so I'm not sure if metallic flavour would show through


----------



## Jack of all biers

mstrelan said:


> My BK one definitely had black film. When I first got it I cleaned with PBW then Star San the filled with beer. Beer was good that night but tasted metallic 36 hours later. Have cleaned since then with BKF and more Star San, which is when I noticed the black film. Haven't had a chance to use it since then.


Shit. :unsure:


----------



## peteru

Well, I can report that I am would not be willing to store beer in my 5L mini-keg for more than about 4-8 hours.

Here's the comparison of the same beer. It has been in a stainless steel Keg King 19L keg for three weeks, then the mini keg was filled two weeks ago from the main keg. I did a comparison pour from the main keg and the mini-keg. Both beers are 5 weeks old, but guess which one spent two out of the five weeks in the mini-keg!

YUCK! All the flavour is gone. My advice for the mini-kegs is either avoid completely or only use to fill and dispense on the same day. I'm glad I only got one 5L keg. I think I'd be better off lugging around a half-filled 19L keg.

For me the novelty has worn off and I'll be sticking to tried and tested methods - the mini-kegs are basically reserved for a fill and take to the park at then end of the street occasions (if I can get the effing mini-reg to work properly [another fail tonight, but I'll come back to that another day[)

Not a happy camper! I feel sorry for those who dropped a lot more money on these mini-kegs than I did, because at the end of the day it's just Chinese rubbish.


----------



## Jack of all biers

That's fu*ked. Where did you get your 5L mini's from?


----------



## peteru

Jack of all biers said:


> That's fu*ked. Where did you get your 5L mini's from?


ATHB, mini-keg bulk buy MK II.

However, I doubt that it makes any difference. From what I can see, all of these mini-kegs come from the same stable. The variations seem to mainly be confined to the accessories.


----------



## peteru

I should probably mention that I was very anal about filling the minikeg. It was filled to the top with filtered water, then all water was pushed out using CO2. Then the minikeg was filled from the main keg via beer-to-beer line and periodic pressure releases on the PRV until the condensation line reached the top of the vertical sides. The minikeg beer is definitely not oxidised and it has no sediment, since the main keg was pouring clear at the fill stage.

I was going to go out a couple of weeks ago and filled the keg. Then the event was cancelled. I kept the minikeg in the fridge and took it out with me to a different event tonight. It was a fail both in terms of the contents and in terms of dispensing. When I got home, I did a sanity check on the beer and as you can see from the above picture, storing the beer in the minikeg for just two weeks has ruined it in a very unsubtle way.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Thanks for the review peteru, I was going to buy, then I wasn't, I was being put off by the negative comments, looked into the cleaning of the kegs acid wash if done, no more than a couple of minutes then rinse and not keeping beer long term in them, I expect it's across the board. I was going for the 4 litres something that could be used fairly quickly, but now I will either consider the plastic 4 litres mini kegs or continue with my build of the ghetto beer engine which I have already finished but,I fitted the picnic tap and lost the pressure because of the wider opening of the tap.
So I will be fitting the Bunnings sparkler to the sprayer and use that while I look into the plastic mini's.




Alex from Tassie's photo


----------



## Coalminer

Seems to be caused by low pH
If I clean and dry they stay OK
If I clean and starsan and allow to dry they develop a black film - all from ATHB
Got another one coming from Beerkat (that makes 7 problems) h34r:
add the 3 poorly performing regulators and I'm not a happy camper
At least the head units and caps are good quality :lol:


----------



## earle

peteru said:


> Well, I can report that I am would not be willing to store beer in my 5L mini-keg for more than about 4-8 hours.
> 
> Here's the comparison of the same beer. It has been in a stainless steel Keg King 19L keg for three weeks, then the mini keg was filled two weeks ago from the main keg. I did a comparison pour from the main keg and the mini-keg. Both beers are 5 weeks old, but guess which one spent two out of the five weeks in the mini-keg!
> 
> YUCK! All the flavour is gone. My advice for the mini-kegs is either avoid completely or only use to fill and dispense on the same day. I'm glad I only got one 5L keg. I think I'd be better off lugging around a half-filled 19L keg.
> 
> For me the novelty has worn off and I'll be sticking to tried and tested methods - the mini-kegs are basically reserved for a fill and take to the park at then end of the street occasions (if I can get the effing mini-reg to work properly [another fail tonight, but I'll come back to that another day[)
> 
> Not a happy camper! I feel sorry for those who dropped a lot more money on these mini-kegs than I did, because at the end of the day it's just Chinese rubbish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One_beer_two_kegs.jpg


That's a very noticeable difference. I can understand why your pissed at it.

Couple of questions:
Is that your first beer in the mini-keg?
How did you clean it before use?

Reason for my questions is the earlier comments about a black residue inside some mini-kegs. Wondering if your beer removed the black residue over time.

I have an iKegger 4L mini keg which I just cleaned with hot water when I first received. (Before I read this thread about better ways to clean them). As I only have the picnic tap head I followed the suggestion of using some cheap beer to practice with. Bought a 6-pack of Uberbrau stubbies and poured them in - probably oxidised as I did (another story). Anyway, that was quite a few weeks ago and I only had the last glass of it on Friday night with no visible difference to the beer. Have checked just now and my keg does not appear to have the black residue.


----------



## Zorco

peteru said:


> Well, I can report that I am would not be willing to store beer in my 5L mini-keg for more than about 4-8 hours.
> 
> Here's the comparison of the same beer. It has been in a stainless steel Keg King 19L keg for three weeks, then the mini keg was filled two weeks ago from the main keg. I did a comparison pour from the main keg and the mini-keg. Both beers are 5 weeks old, but guess which one spent two out of the five weeks in the mini-keg!
> 
> YUCK! All the flavour is gone. My advice for the mini-kegs is either avoid completely or only use to fill and dispense on the same day. I'm glad I only got one 5L keg. I think I'd be better off lugging around a half-filled 19L keg.
> 
> For me the novelty has worn off and I'll be sticking to tried and tested methods - the mini-kegs are basically reserved for a fill and take to the park at then end of the street occasions (if I can get the effing mini-reg to work properly [another fail tonight, but I'll come back to that another day[)
> 
> Not a happy camper! I feel sorry for those who dropped a lot more money on these mini-kegs than I did, because at the end of the day it's just Chinese rubbish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One_beer_two_kegs.jpg


Hi Peter,

that doesnt look good. I can't say I've ever used a mini keg that way before. I've got an English Brown Ale coming off the yeast and I'll do the same experiment but at t=0 weeks and see what happens.

No need to stay an unhappy camper.... If there is a fault in the product then, as always, you can talk to Mark about a way forward. 


Coalminer,

The regulators have been a farking pain in the ass. Mine are shit as well. Mark has worked to resolve this and it seems the new batch of regs are performing fine. I've started another thread that tries to dive into this.
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/94448-problem-discussion-thread-mini-keg-regulators/

Go ahead and ask Mark about replacements.... I gather his supplier is on board.


In any case Peter, there is no point keeping at it if the mini-keg isn't working out; let me know if you don't get what you're after from Mark and maybe we could find someone interested in taking it off your hands for you.


Life's too short for feeling shit about infinitesimal things, happy to help if I can mate.


----------



## Coldspace

I've got 4 of these from last bulk buy. I've only been using 2 for weekend jobs but sometimes they come home with a few schooners left and have been fine by the next weekend. I used them at Christmas for 2 weeks filling them from main kegs at a camp site.

My other 2 haven't been used yet. I hope these are not duds. I'll be going away at Easter for 2 weeks, I'll fill all 4 up this week and leave till we go. I'll test a pot out of each one to make sure I'm not dragging crap beer away.

Good luck with it. Maybe a bad batch or something else.


----------



## Jack of all biers

peteru said:


> ATHB, mini-keg bulk buy MK II.
> 
> However, I doubt that it makes any difference. From what I can see, all of these mini-kegs come from the same stable. The variations seem to mainly be confined to the accessories.





mstrelan said:


> My BK one definitely had black film. When I first got it I cleaned with PBW then Star San the filled with beer. Beer was good that night but tasted metallic 36 hours later. Have cleaned since then with BKF and more Star San, which is when I noticed the black film. Haven't had a chance to use it since then.


Both of these products are advertised as 304 Stainless steel. That grade stainless should have enough chromium and nickel to be able to put up with the pH that beer sits at without any degradation. I would have thought that short periods in contact with the recommended concentrations of Starsan (phosphoric acid) or Sodium Percarbonate should also not cause tarnishing (ie corrosion). If this is the case, as it appears with you two, then the grade of 304 may not have been properly manufactured. I would think this is a warranty issue (ie protection under Australian consumer law) and your suppliers would be more than happy to deal with any real issues with the product. It may well be a case of a bad batch of stainless used in a batch of kegs and in that case they may have to recall that batch and sort it out with the manufacturers. I do know that the use of chlorine (not suggesting anyone here has done this) will cause blackening, so if this was used that would be user error.

EDIT - Just found this site which gave me an idea. What is the chloride and sodium levels or your water/beer?

_The two most common stainless steel grades are 304 and 316. The key difference is the addition of molybdenum—an alloy which drastically enhances corrosion resistance, especially for more saline or chloride-exposed environments. 316 stainless steel contains molybdenum, but 304 doesn’t._

AND;

_Solutions with as little as 25 ppm of sodium chloride can begin to have a corrosive effect._

Further info here


----------



## peteru

Just to clarify, the things I am not happy about is how fiddly the regulator is (probably a dud) and the fact that the beer I took with me last night ended up being sub-standard. My usual use case for the minikeg is to fill just before leaving for an event and drinking within a few hours, which seems to be fine. I know people who want to store beer in these for prolonged periods of time - I don't think they are suitable for that. I think owning one or two of these minikegs is fine if you intend to fill and drink within a day. Having half a dozen and cellaring beer in them could lead to (very expensive) tears.

This is not the first batch of beer, but it is the first time that the beer has been in the minikeg for more than 24 hours. I've had at least 6 batches go through, and this was the palest beer. Maris Otter and Columbus SMaSH.

Cleaning process was simple. When the minikeg arrived, I used hot tap water and normal dishwashing detergent (Morning Fresh) to wash everything. Rinsed with filtered tap water, then gave it a 15 minute soak of one teaspoon 100% sodium percarbonate to 5L luke warm water. Rinsed thoroughly with filtered tap water again and added about 30mL of Keg King phosphoric sanitiser diluted at a rate of 1.5mL per litre of filtered water. Shook for about 30 seconds, then drained the sanitiser. Filled with filtered water and expelled water using CO2.

The usual cleaning regime is to rinse minikeg with hot tap water and drain upside down overnight, then store opened so it can dry out properly. I usually smell the minikeg after it has been drained overnight. If I can detect any beer smell, I'll soak for 10 minutes with a fairly weak sodium percarbonate solution, rinse and drain again. When filling the keg, I just spray a bit of diluted StarSan, rinse, fill with filtered tap water, expel the water using CO2, then transfer beer using beer-to-beer disconnects while using the PRV to control the fill level.


----------



## goatchop41

peteru said:


> Well, I can report that I am would not be willing to store beer in my 5L mini-keg for more than about 4-8 hours.
> 
> Here's the comparison of the same beer. It has been in a stainless steel Keg King 19L keg for three weeks, then the mini keg was filled two weeks ago from the main keg. I did a comparison pour from the main keg and the mini-keg. Both beers are 5 weeks old, but guess which one spent two out of the five weeks in the mini-keg!
> 
> YUCK! All the flavour is gone. My advice for the mini-kegs is either avoid completely or only use to fill and dispense on the same day. I'm glad I only got one 5L keg. I think I'd be better off lugging around a half-filled 19L keg.
> 
> For me the novelty has worn off and I'll be sticking to tried and tested methods - the mini-kegs are basically reserved for a fill and take to the park at then end of the street occasions (if I can get the effing mini-reg to work properly [another fail tonight, but I'll come back to that another day[)
> 
> Not a happy camper! I feel sorry for those who dropped a lot more money on these mini-kegs than I did, because at the end of the day it's just Chinese rubbish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One_beer_two_kegs.jpg


I left a mid strength belgian blonde in one of my 5L jobbies from ATHB for about 2 months, and certainly didnt have this problem. Closed transferred while cold from one of my 19L kegs, then took it on an interstate trip with some mates. I completely forgot about it in the back of the motor home for 2 weeks, in which time it would have probably reached ~30oC once or twice. Put it in the fridge when I got home, then grabbed it out at the start of this month to drink with my mates. There was a metallic twang to it (not overriding, actually reminded me of the metallic note that most macro Aussie lagers have), but no change in colour, no loss of flavour (being yeast-derived flavours, not hoppy) to speak of.


----------



## barls

peteru said:


> Just to clarify, the things I am not happy about is how fiddly the regulator is (probably a dud) and the fact that the beer I took with me last night ended up being sub-standard. My usual use case for the minikeg is to fill just before leaving for an event and drinking within a few hours, which seems to be fine. I know people who want to store beer in these for prolonged periods of time - I don't think they are suitable for that. I think owning one or two of these minikegs is fine if you intend to fill and drink within a day. Having half a dozen and cellaring beer in them could lead to (very expensive) tears.
> 
> This is not the first batch of beer, but it is the first time that the beer has been in the minikeg for more than 24 hours. I've had at least 6 batches go through, and this was the palest beer. Maris Otter and Columbus SMaSH.
> 
> Cleaning process was simple. When the minikeg arrived, I used hot tap water and normal dishwashing detergent (Morning Fresh) to wash everything. Rinsed with filtered tap water, then gave it a 15 minute soak of one teaspoon 100% sodium percarbonate to 5L luke warm water. Rinsed thoroughly with filtered tap water again and added about 30mL of Keg King phosphoric sanitiser diluted at a rate of 1.5mL per litre of filtered water. Shook for about 30 seconds, then drained the sanitiser. Filled with filtered water and expelled water using CO2.
> 
> The usual cleaning regime is to rinse minikeg with hot tap water and drain upside down overnight, then store opened so it can dry out properly. I usually smell the minikeg after it has been drained overnight. If I can detect any beer smell, I'll soak for 10 minutes with a fairly weak sodium percarbonate solution, rinse and drain again. When filling the keg, I just spray a bit of diluted StarSan, rinse, fill with filtered tap water, expel the water using CO2, then transfer beer using beer-to-beer disconnects while using the PRV to control the fill level.


I've got to disagree. I've left beer in mine for well over 3 months. no metallic twang. 
i tsped mine when i first got them and then star saned to stabilise them. 
I've taken them to the isb meeting and had nobody pick up any off flavours well apart from one beer but that was a brett thing.
i found the reg much better than the other gas charger that i had.


----------



## Batz

barls said:


> I've got to disagree. I've left beer in mine for well over 3 months. no metallic twang.
> i tsped mine when i first got them and then star saned to stabilise them.
> I've taken them to the isb meeting and had nobody pick up any off flavours well apart from one beer but that was a brett thing.
> i found the reg much better than the other gas charger that i had.


Thank you Barls I was starting to think I was going batty.....more batty perhaps?

I've been reading this thread and was about to post my findings as well. I own 4x5lt kegs and one 2lt.

Now I have only used 2 of the 5lt, both these had beer in them for 4-5 days (that's the longest ATM)
I have not had off flavours or any discoloration. The 2 lt I filled with water and capped, after two weeks the water tastes fine.
I washed new kegs with detergent first then sodium perc. Two regulators and both are good, I have been sent a few that are totally u/s where though. (these were for my fault finding experiments)


I believe if you have a problem it is a warranty issue, contact your retailer. I'm sure the retailers used through this forum will be very responsive to your issues.

Batz


----------



## Zorco

Peteru is a clever man, and his kegs are firmly from the same metal batch MKII recipients received.

If not the steel, then what else could be going on? 

I've got no idea, but disagreement with a smart person's subjective experience doesn't do anything. 

Is there a way to add a solution to an empty clean keg that can leach metal molecules out and then process that fluid to quantify the level of contaminant? 

Is it as simple as first pour with yeast pickup and other trub? Too obvious... but trying to explore scientifically.

I wish I studied advanced chemistry... you should see my YouTube subscriptions.

Zorco


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Hey brewers,

I've had good results with my kegs. I generally bottle in PET and this has been a good novelty/upgrade for me.
Done a few kegs now. No bad taste same as bottles.

First one I force carbonated with good results but used 2 bulbs to carb and serve a 5L keg.
Since then I've naturally carbonated with about 50-60 g of white sugar, conditioned at room temperature for 2 weeks.
Currently serving with one bulb and the cheap plastic picnic tap or whatever they are called. Set to 5psi and then start pouring turn off pressure and serve till glass is full. Happy days

It's a shame there a few problems though for others. Hope it works out for you soon.

FYI this beer is a kit based Saison that had 10g rock salt solution added post yeast pitch.

My gear was purchased with bulk buy 3.


----------



## barls

Zorco said:


> Peteru is a clever man, and his kegs are firmly from the same metal batch MKII recipients received.
> 
> If not the steel, then what else could be going on?
> 
> I've got no idea, but disagreement with a smart person's subjective experience doesn't do anything.
> 
> Is there a way to add a solution to an empty clean keg that can leach metal molecules out and then process that fluid to quantify the level of contaminant?
> 
> Is it as simple as first pour with yeast pickup and other trub? Too obvious... but trying to explore scientifically.
> 
> I wish I studied advanced chemistry... you should see my YouTube subscriptions.
> 
> Zorco


i have kegs from the 1st and second buy


----------



## Zorco

Me too. Was Peteru's cleaners or sanitiser different, was it infection, has he done it deliberately, did his mini keg experience a different environment that catalysed the change in his photo, was it god, did too much residual cleaner do that to his second beer.

I didn't discount your experience, mine is similar. I'm only probing Peter's.

I'm just asking friggin' questions to investigate methodically. But I'm not knowledgable enough to know how to ask all the best questions within a chemistry focus.


beer is my alt learning journey. 
LC
Klang
Doc
Mark

Cheers

Edit: redundant crap removed


----------



## Batz

Zorco said:


> If not the steel, then what else could be going on?
> 
> I've got no idea, but disagreement with a smart person's subjective experience doesn't do anything.
> 
> Zorco


I was not disagreeing with a smart person at all. Not even a dumb fu%k...wait... yes I do disagree with myself at times. :blink: :blink:

Just posting my findings.

Hope all works out well.for all.


----------



## Zorco

Ohhh Batz, glad you think it's about you.. 




barls said:


> I've got to disagree.


----------



## Batz

Zorco said:


> Ohhh Batz, glad you think it's about you..



thank you.............


----------



## Zorco

THB, I only recently came across that gif... 

Gives me those love........feelings.....

:icon_chickcheers:


----------



## Jack of all biers

What were your Cl levels for that brew Peteru?

304 SS 
_Corrosion Resistance
Excellent in a wide range of atmospheric environments and many corrosive media. Subject to pitting and crevice corrosion in warm chloride environments, and to stress corrosion cracking above about 60°C. Considered resistant to potable water with up to about *200mg/L chlorides* at ambient temperatures, reducing to about 150mg/L at 60°C._

Do any of the welds on your mini keg appear to be 'sugared'. See pics for sugared welds. It may have been cleaned up on the outside, but not thoroughly on the inside and there may be tell tale signs (when the workforce are paid a pittance they may not know or care about the inside which is hard to QC). Sugaring of stainless can lead to 'Intergranular corrosion'. If this sugaring occurred on the welds at the factory and wasn't cleaned properly, then it could lead to black corrosion type material entering solution (ie your beer).


Read this to see about different corrosion on 304 SS inclduing 'intergranular corrosion'.

Sugared SS 



internal can look like this when external looks fine.


----------



## Batz

> internal can look like this when external looks fine.



That's how I remove an inner bearing race
as well.

But perhaps we shouldn't go there..


----------



## Zorco

Jack of all biers said:


> What were your Cl levels for that brew Peteru?
> 
> 304 SS
> _Corrosion Resistance
> Excellent in a wide range of atmospheric environments and many corrosive media. Subject to pitting and crevice corrosion in warm chloride environments, and to stress corrosion cracking above about 60°C. Considered resistant to potable water with up to about *200mg/L chlorides* at ambient temperatures, reducing to about 150mg/L at 60°C._
> 
> Do any of the welds on your mini keg appear to be 'sugared'. See pics for sugared welds. It may have been cleaned up on the outside, but not thoroughly on the inside and there may be tell tale signs (when the workforce are paid a pittance they may not know or care about the inside which is hard to QC). Sugaring of stainless can lead to 'Intergranular corrosion'. If this sugaring occurred on the welds at the factory and wasn't cleaned properly, then it could lead to black corrosion type material entering solution (ie your beer).
> 
> 
> Read this to see about different corrosion on 304 SS inclduing 'intergranular corrosion'.
> 
> Sugared SS
> 
> 
> 
> Figure-8-Sugaring-on-stainless-steel-90x90.jpg
> 
> internal can look like this when external looks fine.
> 
> 
> 
> GATW_Root.jpg


That's f$cking interesting.


----------



## peteru

Jack of all biers said:


> What were your Cl levels for that brew Peteru?


I'm brewing with untreated Sydney water from Ryde. The water analysis has Chloride at 25.0-35.5 mg/L



Jack of all biers said:


> Do any of the welds on your mini keg appear to be 'sugared'.


I think you may be onto something here. The top of the minikeg, where the conical section meets the cylinder with the thread, has a suspect weld. This keg was lying down, so this suspect weld would have been exposed to the beer.


----------



## barls

peteru said:


> I'm brewing with untreated Sydney water from Ryde. The water analysis has Chloride at 25.0-35.5 mg/L


so am i peter, so i think we can say its not the water
I'm going to have a good look at mine tomorrow mate when i get a chance


----------



## Jack of all biers

Yep, I was covering all bases and started to suspect the welds, the more I researched 304. But I did need to cover off that Peteru didn't just add a shit load of Cl to that particular brew.

Peteru, I would check out the internals of that weld as best you can. If there has been 'sugaring' then it will weaken the join and therefore won't be as strong as it should be. If there is obvious weld issues with a pressurized vessel then it is a defect and you SHOULD contact the retailer and have it returned as such.

All other people out there finding blackening on ANY keg, should also check the internal welds as best they can. Black crap in the beer is not the only issue that can arise from 'sugaring', but the integrity of the vessel COULD be affected.


----------



## Grott

"All other people out there finding blackening on ANY keg, should also check the internal welds as best they can. Black crap in the beer is not the only issue that can arise from 'sugaring', but the integrity of the vessel COULD be affected."


As a potential flaw with the product has been detected, shouldn't these be inspected before being sent to the buyers in the new bulk buy purchases?


----------



## Zorco

My guess is a rudimentary pressure test would take place. 

Jack, Husky et.al. to further


----------



## Jack of all biers

Yeah, I'm hoping that someone who knows more about SS welds and manufacturing processes can jump in and add a bit of expert knowledge. LC perhaps? But from what I have researched, it appears that the 'intergranular corrosion' I posted about can be caused by 'sugaring' of the welds (burning too hot with O2 present in too high concentrations) and the heat markings (discolouration). The black slag from the 'sugaring' itself should be manually chipped and ground off, before the nitric acid 'passivization process' takes place. Page 9 here

If that is not correctly done, then you could end up with something that will look like this.




Or if the chipping and grinding is not done properly and the acid passivization doesn't get to the affected internal area then it could look like this




I will add here that, my research and gut feeling on the black colour that a few people have found after cleaning with Sod.Perc or Phos.Acid or Peteru's devastating find, caused me to think it in may not be iron corrosion, but something that is well, black. Which made me think of the welds and my research shows this COULD be a cause. I note that people should check at this stage and not jump to conclusions that this is definitely the cause. Again I hope that LC or someone that might have seen this before could advise.


----------



## phildo

The black film:

I have never experienced black film in any of my kegs,I'm quite curious about it. 

Length of time beer spends in mini keg :

I generally use my mini keg (4l) to condition /store and dispense the beer that doesn't fit in my corny so given that the beer is in the mini keg for a minimum of four weeks I think that oxidisation may be the culprit for folks suffering from foul beer. 

Sodium percarbonate:

As far as I understand it is not recommended for contact with stainless steel. The ONLY cleaning agent I allow contact with the insides of my kegs is sodium metasilicate (brewers detergent) and the only sanitisers I use are phosphoric acid (for kegs to be naturally carbonated) and Iodophor (for kegs to be force carbonated) 

Metallic flavour :

Generally when a metallic flavour is detected I connect to a clean beer line and tap for an immediate remedy and perform a cip on the offending tap and line. 


Hope my 2 cents helps


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I am sure that on either the Beerkat website or somewhere in the Beerkat thread it was mentioned that the kegs had been passivated but if peteru had laid his down then the weld around the neck may not have been, though I would imagine that they would all be submerged in the acid bath.
Further reading about the metallic taste and solutions is to do the passivating at home before using a new keg, or as the keg starts to produce the metallic taste. It has been covered on this site before a couple of years ago and John Palmer covers it in his, 'How to Brew' book. 
http://www.beerandloafing.org/hbd/fetch.php?id=52083


----------



## Grott

Pildo - " Sodium percarbonate:

As far as I understand it is not recommended for contact with stainless steel. "



Interesting as to where you heard that, does a top job for me with no adverse problems.


----------



## RdeVjun

Agree with grott, that may come as some surprise to many.


----------



## Jack of all biers

Peteru,

This is the neck weld of one of mine (Beerkat) and as you can see it is not bad. I did look at the internals (prior to perc clean, Starsan and filling with brew) and couldn't see any discolouration or weld marks that were visible, but most of the welds would not be visible without a mini camera on a flexi-cable.







wide eyed and legless said:


> I am sure that on either the Beerkat website or somewhere in the Beerkat thread it was mentioned that the kegs had been passivated but if peteru had laid his down then the weld around the neck may not have been, though I would imagine that they would all be submerged in the acid bath.
> Further reading about the metallic taste and solutions is to do the passivating at home before using a new keg, or as the keg starts to produce the metallic taste. It has been covered on this site before a couple of years ago and John Palmer covers it in his, 'How to Brew' book.
> http://www.beerandloafing.org/hbd/fetch.php?id=52083


Yes one would expect passivization to have occurred to some degree, otherwise they would look bloody rough. It is the thoroughness of post weld clean and 'pickling' (acid bath) of the internal surfaces before passivization occurs that is in question with my hypothesis. 

I can seen from the outside of my kegs that passivization did occur, but when one looks as Peteru's neck weld and some of the clean up on mine below one can see that even on the externals that have been ground down and acid treated, there are some interesting welds (Peteru's) and black chromium carbide marks left that were not cleaned with grinding and acid wash properly so therefore passivization did not occur for those spots. 

This is one of my two mini-kegs showing a black weld mark in a divot (I assume this is chromium carbide from the weld). It is a sign that the acid pickling did not clean that divot. This is external, so if it is similar on the internal then that black carbide will leach into my beer or when I treat it with acid (one would expect if the outside was missed, then the inside may well be the same or worse). There is also some discolouration from heat around some of the spot welds that were not removed by pickling. Nothing terrible, but worrying that the inside might not have been checked at all. 

From top


From side, same divot continues down side.



Areas on the outside were missed, so I then question whether the inside was done thoroughly or not. A black film isn't a common indicator for corrosion of SS, so it must have come from somewhere. As chromium carbide can be caused by welding and is black and would be disolved by acidic solutions (beer included) it is a likely candidate. There have been a few who have posted about black films after Acid use or beer being left in the keg for a while, so this also fits chromium carbide as a candidate. A metallic taste would also fit it as a candidate. The only thing I could conceivably think of was that some of the welding produced intergranular corrosion, which if you read the links to my early posts indicates that if not removed cleanly, can cause structural integrity issues with the steel with further corrosion (worse than pitting corrosion). Given these are pressurized vessels then if that corrosion continues over time then this could conceivably be an issue. 

You can passivate those welds all you want, but when crevices and ridges are present in stainless, then future corrosion is invited, just like scratches and crevices hide bacteria in a plastic fermenter, scratches and crevices in SS invite corrosive substances to lodge, despite rinsing and they can remove the protective layer and cause pitting corrosion.

In short, if the SS is not shiny, it will corrode. If it is not smooth, then far more care needs to be taken when rinsing out. This can be passivized at home as you say, but when the potential corrosion issue is out of vision, how often should it be passivized and what damage has been done prior. To a pot or non-pressurized vessel this is not such a worry and can be lived with. To a certain extent so too could it be fine in this case, but there may well be a batch or a particular welder at the factory that can't do their job properly, which should be identified.

I for one will be checking both of my mini-kegs' internal surfaces with a small mirror and flash light as soon as they are empty of beer.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I think the welding would be done on an automatic welding machine, I doubt there is any high production items being welded manually nowadays especially anything that is round.
The paragraph in the linked article he says he leaves them dry and open for a couple of weeks for natural repassivation, maybe that or a chemical repassivation should be tried first before warranty claims are put in.


----------



## Jack of all biers

No, first the problem needs to be identified, before any warranty claim is put in. Mine is an educated guess until someone can confirm. But on the re-passivization, I argue that it may not be effective if there is sugaring that has not been physically chipped away and pickle cleaned first. We are talking about brand new items sold for brewing as 304 SS that are producing a black film or metallic appearance and taste in peoples beers. They should not need re-passivization by the buyer. Jeez, what kind of world do we live in where that would be acceptable. Surely it would not be accepted by you if you had bought one that was turning your beer black.


----------



## peteru

I did a simple finger test today. Stuck my finger inside the minikeg near the neck weld. I gently rubbed my finger against the side that seems to have good welding and it came out clean. I repeated the same thing on the side that has the black crevice. My finger came out with a black line on it. I repeated the same exercise with a clean white tissue. Again, one side comes out clean, the other side leaves a black metallic looking mark on the tissue.

The weld also felt different. The clean side felt like two surfaces meeting, but with a slight gap between them. The side that marked black felt "filled-in" and perhaps slightly bulgy. I wish I had a small inspection camera so that I could take a look inside. I don't seem to have anything else that I could use to look in there.

I shone a torch inside and had a look at the bottom and side wall welds. The joints look reasonably clean and have been ground. The finish is definitely nowhere near the quality on the inside when compared to the outside. You can clearly see the weld, a slightly darker strip in the middle, then shiny, then slight discolouration on each side of the weld on the side wall. It's a bit harder to evaluate the bottom weld, but again, it seems to have been cleaned up enough to not have any horrid looking crud on it.

I think the welds at the top may be the problem area. Presumably the top part is welded last and therefore would be the hardest to clean up properly. I suppose if you fill below the weld mark and keep the minikeg upright, you reduce the risk of contamination. If it's full and lying on the side, you are going to get the full effect.

I think that we are narrowing down the possible source of the issue, mainly thanks to Jack of all biers doing the research - thanks!


----------



## peteru

Well, maybe I'll just throw in a curve ball. I decided to see what would happen if I clean the keg as best as I can...

1. 10mL of Keg King phosphoric sanitiser (50% phosphoric acid, 15% sulphonic acid) diluted with 20mL filtered water. Into minikeg, shake for about 3 minutes. Rinse repeatedly until there is no foaming when keg with water is shaken.

2. 3g of 100% sodium percarbonate dissolved in 500mL of water. Shake for about 5 minutes. Rinse thoroughly. Let drip dry for about 10 minutes.

3. One tablespoon of uncooked rice and 200mL of filtered tap water. Add to minikeg and shake vigorously for 5 minutes. (I use this method to clean out kids drink bottles and other containers where some mechanical cleaning is required, but you just can't get in.) Pour resulting liquid into glass and be horrified by the results.

Simple enough test for anyone to try on their minikeg.





I'll rinse and have another pass, to see if it improves...


----------



## Mardoo

yikes


----------



## Jack of all biers

If that is your result, you should really contact your retailer and start a conversation. This is a food grade product and that is not acceptable. Keep it polite and explain, with photos, how you discovered your issue.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

From what I have read kegs are called for a thorough cleaning and passivising before use, like with Grainfather, BM etc new products do require a clean to be rid of the oils and such from the manufacturing, maybe the two sales (BB & BK)were from different manufacturers looking like the Bulk Buy's have been a hit and miss with the purchasers.
Just glad I didn't pull the trigger on my purchase after reading all the problems encountered.

From the previous thread.
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/82943-keg-king-new-corny-kegs-metallic-taste/


----------



## Zorco

Mark will be all over that like a rash. He would probably have replaced it as soon as you told him you were concerned but now you have plenty to go on.

Hopefully you take a cutting disc to the current one and show us the problem.


----------



## phildo

grott said:


> Pildo - " Sodium percarbonate:
> 
> As far as I understand it is not recommended for contact with stainless steel. "
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting as to where you heard that, does a top job for me with no adverse problems.


It states so on the product packaging and the MSDS states that it is highly reactive with metals


----------



## Zorco

I'm highly reactive to metal


----------



## Zorco

And crazy reactive with this metal


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## RdeVjun

That's interesting phildo.

These suppliers might be quite interested to hear that.
https://nationalhomebrew.com.au/brewers-library-beer-cleaning-and-sanitising-for-brewers
http://homebrewsuppliesandingredients.com.au/100-Pure-Sodium-Percarbonate-1kg.html
https://brewerschoice.com.au/sanitisers-and-cleaners/

And these brewers too maybe
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/50460-sodium-percarbonate-how-long/ 

Take home is that its probably nonsense, wouldn't be the first MSDS to be so. Are you sure its the correct MSDS, not for some other product perhaps?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Mild steel is reactive with perc, but not stainless steel.
https://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927598


----------



## LiquidGold

Finally put beer in my mini last weekend, after reading this thread and hearing all the issues I was hoping I got lucky. Beer tasted fine while drinking the keg although I didn't even bother testing out the mini reg. Was about to pour out the dregs when I thought I should check the colour and this is what came out. Beer on the right is from same batch but kept in large keg.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

So I suppose the question now is, being as we don't see these problems from other international sites, and being as we are small potatoes compared to Europe and USA, either we are the dumping ground for the shite, or the retailers are importing the shite, or is there someone importing the shite to sell on the shite to the retailers ?


----------



## Batz

wide eyed and legless said:


> So I suppose the question now is, being as we don't see these problems from other international sites, and being as we are small potatoes compared to Europe and USA, either we are the dumping ground for the shite, or the retailers are importing the shite, or is there someone importing the shite to sell on the shite to the retailers ?


Question does need to be asked. What's the story??


----------



## Parks

wide eyed and legless said:


> Mild steel is reactive with perc, but not stainless steel.
> https://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927598


Aluminium is very reactive to it too. 

I've got a 10L stainless pot which has aluminium rivets in the handles which I regularly soak stuff in, and once I filled it past the rivets and they got heavily pitted very quickly.


----------



## Zorco

wide eyed and legless said:


> So I suppose the question now is, being as we don't see these problems from other international sites, and being as we are small potatoes compared to Europe and USA, either we are the dumping ground for the shite, or the retailers are importing the shite, or is there someone importing the shite to sell on the shite to the retailers ?


Calm down WEAL,


----------



## Zorco

If a manufacturing fault results in a form of corrosion (the hypothesis) then it would be unreasonable to assume that there are not others.

I would still like to hear from Husky if he has a chance and/or wants to comment.

I spoke with Mark from ATHB this arvo and he had no problems replacing. 

I've got three 5L tanks here, I'll do up some tests.

Sanitiser
NaPerc
NaMetSilicate


----------



## Zorco

LiquidGold said:


> Finally put beer in my mini last weekend, after reading this thread and hearing all the issues I was hoping I got lucky. Beer tasted fine while drinking the keg although I didn't even bother testing out the mini reg. Was about to pour out the dregs when I thought I should check the colour and this is what came out. Beer on the right is from same batch but kept in large keg.


Glad you posted this. To me it looks the same as Peteru's result.

Would you mind inspecting the neck-cone weld and 'fingering' the inside surface?


----------



## trhr

I have a steel fab business and have had similar problems of late too.
I think it's a combo of poor non sanitary welds and poor grade SS.
I have 4 5L keg sets, but Im done bothering with them, great idea..poor execution.

Going back to 9L party kegs.


----------



## LiquidGold

I'll never say no to a 'fingering' proposition, although it didn't show much. After a quick rinse out there was noticeable texture on the inside surface hard to explain but kinda like when steel begins to rust, all blotchy like. Got a brush in there and another rinse and it looked better but still some black spots around. Neck weld has a minor fault but nothing too serious. Couple of pics attached although hard to see much.


----------



## LiquidGold

Also the keg was stored upright while dispensing and the dregs probly spent a few days at ambient temp before I poured them out and noticed the colour.


----------



## Jack of all biers

wide eyed and legless said:


> From what I have read kegs are called for a thorough cleaning and passivising before use, like with Grainfather, BM etc new products do require a clean to be rid of the oils and such from the manufacturing, maybe the two sales (BB & BK)were from different manufacturers looking like the Bulk Buy's have been a hit and miss with the purchasers.
> Just glad I didn't pull the trigger on my purchase after reading all the problems encountered.
> 
> From the previous thread.
> http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/82943-keg-king-new-corny-kegs-metallic-taste/


Sigh. Please go back and look at the first photo in post #604. That is the result of acid washing a sugared weld without first grinding it smooth. The area around that ugly weld is pock marked with corrosion. Why? Because of 'intergranular corrosion' or the breaking apart of the metal around the weld. This then encourages ongoing pitting corrosion as can be seen in that image. That orange discolouration is rust. Passivation of a sugared weld alone will result in this type of thing happening. It leaves a rough surface that invites further corrosion. Bugger it, don't go back here is the picture again.

EDIT - what is happening is in the high heat of the poor weld, the chromium is being striped from the iron to form Chromium carbide, which weakens the protection of the iron in that area, which causes this breaking apart and corrosion in that area.






LiquidGold said:


> I'll never say no to a 'fingering' proposition, although it didn't show much. After a quick rinse out there was noticeable texture on the inside surface hard to explain but kinda like when steel begins to rust, all blotchy like. Got a brush in there and another rinse and it looked better but still some black spots around. Neck weld has a minor fault but nothing too serious. Couple of pics attached although hard to see much.


Don't forget to check the weld around the top circumference of the keg also. Harder to get to see or feel, but I plan on using a small mirror on the end of a stick (they make them but blue tacking a small mirror to a stick will work and use a mini torch or reading light for light. If you see anything like the pictures posted above or below, then you know where the dark gritty crap came from. (Gritty texture is exactly what I would expect from a solution containing dissolved metal carbides (burnt weld material). All of that crystallized weld will slowly come away with acid and form a rough textured surface as you described.


----------



## All Things Homebrew

peteru said:


> Just to clarify, the things I am not happy about is how fiddly the regulator is (probably a dud)


sounds like you have one of the faulty regulators from bulk buy 2, I can send out a replacement from the new and improved batch.




Jack of all biers said:


> If there is obvious weld issues with a pressurized vessel then it is a defect and you SHOULD contact the retailer and have it returned as such.
> 
> All other people out there finding blackening on ANY keg, should also check the internal welds as best they can. Black crap in the beer is not the only issue that can arise from 'sugaring', but the integrity of the vessel COULD be affected.


Yep, anyone that is having this issue with the mini kegs please contact me to arrange a replacement.

Thanks for helping pin point the problem jack.




peteru said:


> I did a simple finger test today. Stuck my finger inside the minikeg near the neck weld. I gently rubbed my finger against the side that seems to have good welding and it came out clean. I repeated the same thing on the side that has the black crevice. My finger came out with a black line on it. I repeated the same exercise with a clean white tissue. Again, one side comes out clean, the other side leaves a black metallic looking mark on the tissue.
> 
> I think that we are narrowing down the possible source of the issue, mainly thanks to Jack of all biers doing the research - thanks!


This is definitely not cool and sorry that this has happened, I think the best thing to do will be send you out a replacement, by the photos and details you have already spoken about is enough to warrant a replacement. If you have the tools to cut the thing open please do and post some photos, if you cant then send it back to me and ill cut it open to inspect.




peteru said:


> Just to clarify, the things I am not happy about is how fiddly the regulator is (probably a dud)


 sounds like you have one of the faulty regulators from bulk buy 2, I can send out a replacement from the new and improved batch.




Jack of all biers said:


> If there is obvious weld issues with a pressurized vessel then it is a defect and you SHOULD contact the retailer and have it returned as such.
> 
> All other people out there finding blackening on ANY keg, should also check the internal welds as best they can. Black crap in the beer is not the only issue that can arise from 'sugaring', but the integrity of the vessel COULD be affected.


 Yep, anyone that is having this issue with the mini kegs please contact me to arrange a replacement.




peteru said:


> I did a simple finger test today. Stuck my finger inside the minikeg near the neck weld. I gently rubbed my finger against the side that seems to have good welding and it came out clean. I repeated the same thing on the side that has the black crevice. My finger came out with a black line on it. I repeated the same exercise with a clean white tissue. Again, one side comes out clean, the other side leaves a black metallic looking mark on the tissue.
> 
> I think that we are narrowing down the possible source of the issue, mainly thanks to Jack of all biers doing the research - thanks!


 this is definitely not cool and sorry that this has happened, and think the best thing to do will be send you out a replacement, by the photos and details you have already spoken about is enough to warrant a replacement. if you have the tools to cut the thing open please do and post some photos, if you cant send it back to me and ill cut it open to inspect.




peteru said:


> Minikeg_cleaning_liquid.jpg


 thats a scary result, ill be adding that to the photos i send through to the manufacturer to show them what has happened.



Redman9 said:


> I have a steel fab business and have had similar problems of late too.
> I think it's a combo of poor non sanitary welds and poor grade SS.
> I have 4 5L keg sets, but Im done bothering with them, great idea..poor execution.
> 
> Going back to 9L party kegs.


 Redman are you having the same issue? is there anything i can do to help to get you using them again?


----------



## All Things Homebrew

peteru said:


> Minikeg_cleaning_liquid.jpg


thats a scary result, ill be adding that to the photos i send through to the manufacturer to show them what has happened.



Redman9 said:


> I have a steel fab business and have had similar problems of late too.
> I think it's a combo of poor non sanitary welds and poor grade SS.
> I have 4 5L keg sets, but Im done bothering with them, great idea..poor execution.
> 
> Going back to 9L party kegs.


Redman are you having the same issue? is there anything i can do to help to get you using them again?




LiquidGold said:


> I'll never say no to a 'fingering' proposition, although it didn't show much. After a quick rinse out there was noticeable texture on the inside surface hard to explain but kinda like when steel begins to rust, all blotchy like. Got a brush in there and another rinse and it looked better but still some black spots around. Neck weld has a minor fault but nothing too serious. Couple of pics attached although hard to see much.


what happens if you do the same rice water test the Peteru? it sound like you have the same issue, and will send out a replacement if needed.




peteru said:


> Minikeg_cleaning_liquid.jpg


 thats a scary result, ill be adding that to the photos i send through to the manufacturer to show them what has happened.



Redman9 said:


> I have a steel fab business and have had similar problems of late too.
> I think it's a combo of poor non sanitary welds and poor grade SS.
> I have 4 5L keg sets, but Im done bothering with them, great idea..poor execution.
> 
> Going back to 9L party kegs.


 Redman are you having the same issue? is there anything i can do to help to get you using them again?




LiquidGold said:


> I'll never say no to a 'fingering' proposition, although it didn't show much. After a quick rinse out there was noticeable texture on the inside surface hard to explain but kinda like when steel begins to rust, all blotchy like. Got a brush in there and another rinse and it looked better but still some black spots around. Neck weld has a minor fault but nothing too serious. Couple of pics attached although hard to see much.


 what happens if you do the same rice water test the Peteru? it sound like you have the same issue, and will send out a replacement if needed.


----------



## Jack of all biers

All Things Homebrew said:


> Thanks for helping pin point the problem jack.


No worries. Jack of all trades, master of none, so I could be wrong, but I can't believe the steel is the cause.

Good on you for coming on and addressing your customers. Another good retailer being proactive, it's a good sign.


----------



## All Things Homebrew

Yeh it is disappointing that it seems to be the steel/welds thats the cause. and will be chasing it up with the manufacturer, thankfully for most it isn't an issue, but extremely unlucky for a couple with the issue, and those ones need to be replaced.


----------



## phildo

Zorco said:


> I'm highly reactive to metal


Gold!


----------



## phildo

RdeVjun said:


> That's interesting phildo.
> 
> These suppliers might be quite interested to hear that.
> https://nationalhomebrew.com.au/brewers-library-beer-cleaning-and-sanitising-for-brewers
> http://homebrewsuppliesandingredients.com.au/100-Pure-Sodium-Percarbonate-1kg.html
> https://brewerschoice.com.au/sanitisers-and-cleaners/
> 
> And these brewers too maybe
> http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/50460-sodium-percarbonate-how-long/
> 
> Take home is that its probably nonsense, wouldn't be the first MSDS to be so. Are you sure its the correct MSDS, not for some other product perhaps?


What's to take home mate? Sodium percarbonate is sodium percarbonate. The question should be concentration and contact Time. I wasn't saying that it's the wrong thing to do to allow sodium percarbonate to come into contact with stainless steel just sharing my experience and understanding in this Discussion


----------



## phildo

wide eyed and legless said:


> Mild steel is reactive with perc, but not stainless steel.
> https://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927598


^ this is an example of an intelligent and constructive response. I really appreciate the focus on sharing information for the betterment of our community.


----------



## gezzanet

All Things Homebrew said:


> Yeh it is disappointing that it seems to be the steel/welds thats the cause. and will be chasing it up with the manufacturer, thankfully for most it isn't an issue, but extremely unlucky for a couple with the issue, and those ones need to be replaced.


I think I've got the same issue. See post515

Moving house so all packed up and won't see it for another 4-5 weeks 

Only used 1 of the 2 so far.


----------



## RdeVjun

phildo said:


> What's to take home mate? Sodium percarbonate is sodium percarbonate. The question should be concentration and contact Time. I wasn't saying that it's the wrong thing to do to allow sodium percarbonate to come into contact with stainless steel just sharing my experience and understanding in this Discussion


That isn't quite what you said earlier, while I don't think its got anything to do with concentration or contact time either, perc simply isn't reactive with stainless.

If there's something that many of us have been doing wrong all this time then it would be great to understand why that might be the case. I sense though that there simply isn't any problem, that's certainly been my experience and is that of many others.

Its no biggie mate, helps inform the debate and understanding and all for the greater good.


----------



## Zorco

So, trying to summarise what I've picked up: 

the hypothesis for the beer discolouration is more or less a type of corrosion relating to poor welding skill / ingredients / process known as 'sugaring'

iron oxide, chrome oxide, nickel oxide production in an oxygen environment. Probably expected that purging with argon would be skipped to save money


----------



## peteru

I left the minikeg to dry out. Took a peek inside with a torch and it looks hazy and much darker than any of my full size stainless steel kegs. Even the ancient Coca-Cola ball-lock converted kegs look brighter inside than the minikeg. I did a second pass of the uncooked rice and water shake clean and this time it came out only slightly discoloured. Not clean, but not a filthy mess either.

I don't think I have enough information to be sure if it is the welding or the "stainless" steel itself. I suspect that it may be the steel. I recall reading somewhere that if the passivation process is not done correctly, it will result in something similar to what I'm seeing. I'd like to find out if there is a way to permanently fix the issue at home with some readily available products, for example a rinse with undiluted Starsan or with citric acid. It would be good to get a metallurgist or someone with the understanding of the chemistry involved.


----------



## damoninja

RdeVjun said:


> perc simply isn't reactive with stainless


It wouldn't want to be I left perc in a corny for a month once h34r: h34r:


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Batz said:


> Question does need to be asked. What's the story??


Google mini kegs blackening, metallic taste, weld faulty, etc the links lead back to AHB we are only a small market hundreds of thousands leave China each year destined for the bigger markets of Europe and America, how come they don't have the problems over there.
The welding examples shown here are from TIG, not PAW, which will give a by far superior weld and and minimal chance of oxidising
If it's anything to do with quality control the problem would be more widespread than Australia, but the only complaints are coming from here.


----------



## Zorco

I have made contact with the Australian Stainless Steel Development Association and an industry expert will call me back. 

My line of query will include 

their awareness of Stainless from China for mini kegs;

Stainless products fabrication issues leading to the outcomes put forward by us;

People in industry that can perform accurate testing of Stainless products to determine their grade and composition;

Remediation options for 'sugaring' type of corrosion and any advice on health impacts of consuming oxides.


Just taking this up a notch.

Redman9's comment bothers me.

Will keep you updated


----------



## GoodDuck

Umm yeah, I can confirm peteru's technique.
This 2L mini-keg had spent approx 24 hours soaking with sodium-perc, and then 24 hours soaking with StarSan.
Then performing the uncooked rice trick resulted in a glass of water with similar colour to peteru.





Using my middle finger to rub around the inside conical top, I can reach side top weld seam with the tip of my finger.
The tip of my finger comes out black with this unit, which would suggest the seam is the cause of the issue


----------



## Zorco

A primary school class action screen play.


----------



## Liam_snorkel

FMD, GoodDuck's photo is disturbing.


----------



## Grott

This is not good and suggest many a pissed off recipient. Am I right in thinking with this particular bulk buy not everyone has this problem?
Concern now has to be the current bulk purchases that should be about here.


----------



## mtb

So what you're saying is, these kegs are..





I couldn't help myself and Zorco was taking all the metal references.


----------



## barls

its a shame that its


----------



## peteru

wide eyed and legless said:


> If it's anything to do with quality control the problem would be more widespread than Australia, but the only complaints are coming from here.


Why is that suspect? Is it not possible that the manufacturer used a cheap and nasty batch of steel for this production run? Is it not possible that some kegs were passivated with a contaminated bath? Just those two issues alone, together with poor QC could result in one batch or part of a batch being bad.

As far as the complaints, it took a while to discover and identify the problem. There were some reports of off-flavours a little while ago from some people. It took me months to discover the discolouration. What's to say that even if the problem was present globally that only a few people here in Australia figured out the underlying issue and how to make it manifest in a very obvious way?

I guess my point is that absence of complaints in other markets does not imply absence of problems in those markets. It certainly doesn't preclude this being an isolated incident.


----------



## Batz

Well I am now just a little concerned, I own 4x 5lt ones two from the first BB and two from the second. Also a 2lt one from I Kegger.

Tonight I will do the test on all of them. One closer inspection and one of the 5lt kegs has a weld around the inlet tube, just above the conical, looks like a possible repair?

Fingers crossed for a good result.

See LiquidGolds post #632. Only one of my kegs has a weld visible like this, others are undetectable. 

Batz


----------



## peteru

grott said:


> Am I right in thinking with this particular bulk buy not everyone has this problem?


Not enough data to make a call on that. The patented "peteru Rice Rinse Test"TM is easy and cheap enough to perform, if you want to discover how your minikeg fares. Just about everyone will have the required materials.

1. Clean minikeg using your normal process.
2. Add one or two tablespoons of uncooked rice.
3. Add 300mL of clean water.
4. Seal keg and shake vigorously for 5 minutes, while turning so that all surfaces are "washed" by the rice.
5. Pour cleaning liquid into a glass.

On the first pass, I got almost black, metallic looking liquid. On the second pass, the liquid was milky white with light gray-blue discolouration.

I think my next step is going to be to put some shit beer into the minikeg (like Boags Premium that the father-in-law left here) and let it age for a few weeks. ( Serve it to him next time he's around - I doubt he would notice the difference ;-) ) I'll keep one bottle to compare the colour side by side, then, when the beer is gone, do the "peteru Rice Rinse Test"TM and see how it comes out. I guess this will show whether the contamination is a once off film that can be removed, or whether it's an ongoing chemical process that will keep on coming back.


----------



## malt and barley blues

Are we sure that it isn't Starsan that is the culprit here, I noticed on the Beerkat thread that someone had left their taps on for a 24 hours rinse in starsan and the internals discolored where the Starsan had pooled, Starsan is a 2 minute rinse I believe.


----------



## peteru

Advice on Starsan varies from 30 seconds to 2 minutes contact time. For most of my use, it's usually in that time window. Spray / splash, drain and either rinse with filtered water or fill with product.

However, I don't think Starsan is causing the issue. When I did the second "peteru Rice Rinse Test"TM , I left Starsan in the minikeg for about 5-10 minutes and it didn't seem to cause additional blackening. Even if Starsan was an issue, you would have the same problems with beer. Beer pH is still low enough (in the 4 range) to cause acidity related chemical reactions.


----------



## mtb

I use a stainless corny keg to store my starsan and there's no discolouration afterwards.


----------



## malt and barley blues

But the same problem has occurred in the Berkat buy so it isn't limited to the bulk buy.


----------



## Batz

OK my kegs have almost boiling water and sodium percarbonate in them ATM, I'll give them a few hours then do the "peteru Rice Rinse Test".

No phos. acid in this test.

I have inverted the kegs so the neck is getting the treatment as I have never filled them with beer passed the straight walled sides. I also know the two 5lt kegs from the first and second bulk buy and will post finding as such.

Batz


----------



## madpierre06

grott said:


> This is not good and suggest many a pissed off recipient. Am I right in thinking with this particular bulk buy not everyone has this problem?
> Concern now has to be the current bulk purchases that should be about here.


Gives good reason to get off my arse and put some beer in mine as well. A cheap SMaSH so I don't waste too much in the way of dollars.


----------



## Zorco

Batz said:


> OK my kegs have almost boiling water and sodium percarbonate in them ATM, I'll give them a few hours then do the "peteru Rice Rinse Test".
> 
> No phos. acid in this test.


Can someone do a test of phos. acid and Rice Rinse? Does that go black on its own?


----------



## mtb

Yeah I can do one tonight. Gotta test my kegs anyway.


----------



## malt junkie

malt & barley blues said:


> But the same problem has occurred in the Berkat buy so it isn't limited to the bulk buy.


That was on pparts that may well be chrome plated, try soaking your perlic PC taps in sodium perc or star san and there'll be little chrome left. These kegs are suposed to be stainless food grade like my 14 bigger kegs, 2 of which I left with perc in them 2 months ago. These two I'll empty rinse and star san tomorrow, I have no doubt they will be in pristine condition when I open them. My two mini kegs are nearly full, RIS, and a Dubble. Guess I just have to drink em myself Yobs a bit busy. Then test.


----------



## mtb

Emptied my 4L (from the ATHB bulk buy), was half full of beer previously. Black residue on my finger from wiping the weld from the inside. Peteru treatment underway


----------



## malt and barley blues

malt junkie said:


> That was on pparts that may well be chrome plated, try soaking your perlic PC taps in sodium perc or star san and there'll be little chrome left. These kegs are suposed to be stainless food grade like my 14 bigger kegs, 2 of which I left with perc in them 2 months ago. These two I'll empty rinse and star san tomorrow, I have no doubt they will be in pristine condition when I open them. My two mini kegs are nearly full, RIS, and a Dubble. Guess I just have to drink em myself Yobs a bit busy. Then test.


Being as Stainless 304 is 18% chromium (more suitable for any acidic liquid contact) if the chrome is discolouring what strength was the Starsan used, sodium carbonate is alkaline so should not present a problem.
Stainless 316 has more moly and less chromium more suited for salt air, beer kegs are manufactured from 304 for its resilience to acids.

No reason why we couldn't get this made up here.
http://www.brewcitysolutions.com/product/passivate-plus/


----------



## mtb

So it turns out that for some reason, there's no rice in the house. I'll have to get that part done tomorrow.

The black residue on my finger after wiping an in-use keg is unnerving though.


----------



## Batz

My suggestion to anyone would has a mini keg is to do the rice test now. Don't worry about the cleaner just rice 300ml water and shake for 5 minutes.

Keg one is from bulk buy #1

Keg two is from bulk buy #2 (this one had a _Howdy Doody weld)_

Keg #3 is an I Kegger 2 lt.

All washed with Sodium percarbonate for 2 hours and then 300ml filtered water and 2 TBSP of white rice. Shake 5 minutes.

Happy?? No, sort of wish I did not own 5 of these f&cking things right now.

Batz


----------



## mtb

Maybe we ought to get a Google spreadsheet going, to track the results of the rice tests? Easier than collaborating results via this thread. I'm happy to put one together but assume someone with experience will find it easier


----------



## Grott

Does this help.

https://www.vecom-group.com/en/services/stainless-steel/pickling/


----------



## Batz

mtb said:


> Maybe we ought to get a Google spreadsheet going, to track the results of the rice tests? Easier than collaborating results via this thread. I'm happy to put one together but assume someone with experience will find it easier



Sounds like a good idea.

To be fair there is one more test, I'll do it tomorrow.
One of my 9lt kegs, I've had them 15 years or so. I'll do the rice test on one of these and report findings.

Batz


----------



## mtb

I heard some awesome guy sold grott a 9lt keg for a steal about a year ago. Grott, maybe you can do some testing with it too?


----------



## Batz

mtb said:


> I heard some awesome guy sold grott a 9lt keg for a steal about a year ago. Grott, maybe you can do some testing with it too?





> I heard some awesome guy sold grott a 9lt keg for a steal about a year ago.


Some awesome guys out there hey?


I have several of them, the older US made ones not Chinese. Test tomorrw...or tonight.. but hell what about MKR??


----------



## Grott

mtb said:


> I heard some awesome guy sold grott a 9lt keg for a steal about a year ago. Grott, maybe you can do some testing with it too?


Got you, 
"Hey grott - I have a 10L one - would it suffice?"

You owe me a litre? 
Can't do test at the moment, keg filled with hoppy IPA. It is an American Coca Cola one - no crap in this.


----------



## malt junkie

Pickling paste would probably repair sugared welds, and is available from geordi...... in 2.5kg bottles..... for $86 before postage. I dare say the 2.5kg would be more than enough to resurface all the minikegs sold in BB's here on AHB. But pickling paste is very nasty stuff, not something I want around the house. :unsure:


----------



## Zorco

Water - Perc - Met


----------



## Batz

Zorco said:


> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1490777006.058670.jpg
> 
> Water - Perc - Met


Rice 5 minute shake.


----------



## Zorco

The inside of my kegs looked perfect and smelt fresh and sanitised... been three months like that. 

Let's stay open minded to all the possible chemistry


----------



## malt and barley blues

malt junkie said:


> Pickling paste would probably repair sugared welds, and is available from geordi...... in 2.5kg bottles..... for $86 before postage. I dare say the 2.5kg would be more than enough to resurface all the minikegs sold in BB's here on AHB. But pickling paste is very nasty stuff, not something I want around the house. :unsure:


Oxalic Acid from Bunnings cheaper and easy to use.
https://www.bunnings.com.au/diggers-2kg-rust-stain-cleaner_p0960276
That's what I use on my kegs when I spot some oxidisation works a treat let them dry and away you go


----------



## mstrelan

This is from my BeerKat keg after tipping out 3L of beer. Rice only, no chemicals. The finger test feels mostly smooth and looks fine. If I hold the phone torch on the right angle I can see what looks like a bullseye on the inside on each of the spots where the top is joined on the outside. The centre of these is black and can't tell if it's hollow, looks like a drill hole but could be an optical illusion. Around this is an almost perfect circle which is not as dark and kind of looks burnt.


----------



## mstrelan

I did the rice a second time with just water. It's shown in the smaller glass.


----------



## Jack of all biers

malt & barley blues said:


> Are we sure that it isn't Starsan that is the culprit here, I noticed on the Beerkat thread that someone had left their taps on for a 24 hours rinse in starsan and the internals discolored where the Starsan had pooled, Starsan is a 2 minute rinse I believe.


That was me and that was to do with my stupidity and thin chrome plating. Nothing to do with this issue, although mstrelan also has discovered a black residue on his beerkat mini keg. This has me worried as my 2 beerkat ones are almost two weeks in to a natural carb. Away for the next couple of days but come the weekend I'll be sampling. I'm still convinced this is a weld & QC issue, which is not great, and not an issue with the stainless material quality. All the talk of re passivating is not necessarily a great idea as my earlier pics show poor quality welds lead to further corrosion later on. Also has no one tried to get a small mirror into theirs yet to see rather than feel the dodgy welds?


----------



## Zorco

One of those dental mirrors, I don't think I have one


----------



## Jack of all biers

Just pipped me mstrelan. Yep, what you described sounds like the spot welds holding the grips on. Exactly the same as I described earlier being visible heat markings on the outside of mine.

Now I'm really nervous. Only 10L I guess. If my first pour even smells funny, I'm not risking it.


----------



## mstrelan

The markings are on the inside of mine.


----------



## Batz

9lt keg used many, many times over the years.
Lets not forget what happens to rice put into water and mixed for 5 minutes my guess that's the milky looking stuff here.

Just saying.


----------



## Zorco

Yeah, but no grey/black tones


----------



## Jack of all biers

Yep, understand, but I can't get to the inside of mine and heat markings on the outside can be an indicator of sugaring of the weld on the inside. It may not be, but given pickling should remove the heat markings, it's concerning to see.


----------



## Batz

Zorco said:


> Yeah, but no grey/black tones


Just posting the findings.

See my other tests with the mini kegs.


----------



## Coldspace

Just got home and wow, after seeing this thread unfold,
I've got 3 minis filled with beer for camping next week.
1 with a really light rice style lager and the other 2 with lc pale ale . I filled these to the max under pressure from my big kegs, so alittle seeped out the relief valves. Anyway they are full to the neck . I'll leave them till Friday as I filled them last night. I'll try a pot off them each on Friday and see what happens . These kegs were from the second bulk buy, they haven't been used since jan, I rinsed them yest arvo with just hot water, light spray with starsan, then shaken out and pressure filled 2 mins later. 

My 4th is empty, I'll do rice test with it tomm after work.

hope these hold up, but going on others here not looking good, but keen to find out what's happening


----------



## Zorco

Rice in and full to the brim.

Just noticed the ordinary weld on my third (met) keg.

All met and perc rinsed with three fill ups with cold water each.


----------



## Coldspace

I also have 2 with slight imperfection welds on the neck and 2 that look ok.
All were from same buy,
Will report back when I pour a beer


----------



## peteru

Batz said:


> Happy?? No, sort of wish I did not own 5 of these f&cking things right now.


When compared to my results, your kegs are squeaky clean!

If my rice rinse test came up that clean I probably wouldn't have even raised the issue.


----------



## Zorco

Batz said:


> Happy?? No, sort of wish I did not own 5 of these f&cking things right now.


Premature I would like to point out; we don't event know why it is doing what it's doing.

If it can't be solved, then I'd jump on board with this.

Heading down to see test results


----------



## Zorco

Fine - fine - fine

Now I want to see if sanitiser reacts with the starch in the rice to make a black product, and perc etc


----------



## Zorco

Very dilute sanitiser - perc - met

Perc and met have turned the rice juice a lot more yellow

I'm out of concentrate sanitiser so can't do the test I want. Will try later


----------



## Coldspace

Good experiment Zorco, keen to see more results, something's going on,


----------



## Dae Tripper

Going in with a endoscope as soon as it turns up in the post. Will post the results soon. 

Zorco, the right one looks discolored.


----------



## peteru

Zorco said:


> Now I want to see if sanitiser reacts with the starch in the rice to make a black product, and perc etc


From my tests, a 5 minute shake of rice and properly mixed Starsan will not blacken the rice.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

An interesting article from a British site on stainless steel in the food industry, also a quote from assda 
Chloride.
The guidelines allow for the presence, but assume that the surface has been passivated. In alkaline environments (pH 7) chloride levels can be tolerated. Higher temperatures over 60 degrees C are not recommended for 304 and 316 as they are at risk of sudden failure from chloride stress corrosion cracking.
So heating up tap water, not good. Lowering the pH of water containing chloride also not good.
[SIZE=large]*Chloride Attack on Stainless Steels*[/SIZE]
[SIZE=large]Chloride-induced corrosion is not bulk corrosion. We are all familiar with one of the most common forms of bulk corrosion: rust. When iron rusts, the attack is fairly uniform over the surface exposed to the corrosive environment. Chloride attack of stainless steel is exactly the opposite crevices and pits form and grow perpendicularly to the surface being attacked, rather than spreading out evenly as rust does. Some areas may appear essentially untouched by the corrosion, while others will be severely attacked. This means that thicker tubes and pipes will not necessarily last much longer than thin ones before failing due to chloride induced corrosion.[/SIZE]
_[SIZE=large]This is an example of pitting:[/SIZE]_





[SIZE=large]Stainless steels have excellent corrosion resistance. Water supplies will usually have chlorine or hydrochloric acid added to prevent bacterial growth, it is important to use a material that will resist corrosion by such harsh chemicals. 316 stainless is highly effective in resisting this corrosion.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=large]Stainless steel dissolves very slowly in water, even “RO” (reverse osmosis) water, so only a very small amount of chemical compound elements are added to the water. Using plastic, copper, or iron allows all kinds of unknowns to be added to the water. Plasticiser, from certain plastics, can be leached into the water system, especially when aggressive RO water is used.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=large]Stainless steel is a very clean material and can be sanitised easily. If dead spaces are minimized and surfaces polished to eliminate crevices and pits, bacteria growth is minimized. This is especially true when the piping system is flushed or has continuous water circulation at velocities high enough to cause turbulent flow. Turbulent flow is important because the turbulence creates a scouring of the pipe surface. Low flow or laminar flow leaves a stagnant film of water next to the pipe surface and a biofilm can form.[/SIZE]


----------



## peteru

Zorco said:


> Very dilute sanitiser - perc - met


What is perc and met?

Sodium percarbonate and sodium metasilicate?

Which sanitiser? Phosphoric and sulphonic acid blend?


----------



## Zorco

Coldspace said:


> Good experiment Zorco, keen to see more results, something's going on,


Ta, but only maybe.

I don't even know if the rice rinse does anything meaningful. I'm seeing a few people from the hundred owners show colours, but I don't think we have anything that resembles a consistent experiment procedure.

I doubt(respectfully) anything on the surface of the steel would change the colour of the rice rinse like that unless there was a pre-existing contaminant. 

The only thing I've a hunch on is that 'sugaring' may cause chromium oxide and iron oxide to be produced, being the colours green and rust red respectively. Arguably they could combine to create a blacky browny colour depending on proportions. 

Something seems to be happening, but far from clear to me at this stage


----------



## Zorco

peteru said:


> What is perc and met?
> 
> Sodium percarbonate and sodium metasilicate?
> 
> Which sanitiser? Phosphoric and sulphonic acid blend?


Spot on,

StarSan at 1.5x recommended concentration in a spray bottle.... only tipped in 50ml. I wanted to try and detect anything, but too weak probably.


----------



## Zorco

Dae Tripper said:


> Going in with a endoscope as soon as it turns up in the post. Will post the results soon.
> 
> Zorco, the right one looks discolored.


Lighting isn't uniform in the brewery, but agree, it seems more musty yellow than the Perc.

Not moving to black though.


----------



## Zorco

Dae Tripper said:


> Going in with a endoscope as soon as it turns up in the post. Will post the results


Good luck mate, let us know if the prostate is ok..

Good you're being proactive about these serious man issues[emoji13]


----------



## mtb

Let's just stick to fingering kegs, guys.


----------



## malt and barley blues

I think you may be onto something there WEAL, there are a few articles about chlorine, chloride and stainless steel, add to that overdoing it with Starsan i.e more than 300 ppm, mixing with tap water instead of RO or distilled and leaving on a surface longer than the 2 minutes as advised by 5 star chemicals.


----------



## Grott

Bit confused, are we not talking about a problem with brand new kegs?


----------



## Parks

FYI - when you sand your keg with 1000grit Wet-dry the water turns black. I would be suspicious that the rice is actually being abrasive to the inside of these mini-kegs.

(Note: I know this because I've been trying to polish my corny kegs  )


----------



## damoninja

malt & barley blues said:


> I think you may be onto something there WEAL, there are a few articles about chlorine, chloride and stainless steel, add to that overdoing it with Starsan i.e more than 300 ppm, mixing with tap water instead of RO or distilled and leaving on a surface longer than the 2 minutes as advised by 5 star chemicals.


Be keen to understand a bit more here, as I've been known to leave starsan in kegs overnight or sometimes longer after a clean between beers. 

Wonder if I should stop doing this


----------



## Zorco

malt & barley blues said:


> .... and leaving on a surface longer than the 2 minutes as advised by 5 star chemicals.


Damn, I've overlooked that. I'll adjust my practices.

My comment above was that I'd left sanitiser (only a few ml) in the keg for a few months. Glad there was no damage at all.

Cheers


----------



## Coalminer

Just looked inside 3 of my 6 kegs with a borescope and can see dark burn marks where the handle is spot welded to the body - not shiny as the rest of the insides
The welds that join the top conical section to the main body are not uniform and look like they are hand welded
Also the insides are not polished but are the same brushed finish as the outside
My other 3 kegs are in use one storing a brew and another naturally carbonated. In the interest of science I will attempt to sample them in the next couple of days
My borescope has a video facility but haven't worked out how to capture that yet and have no clue as to how to post the video


----------



## malt and barley blues

grott said:


> Bit confused, are we not talking about a problem with brand new kegs?


As an ex welder, mainly on gas lines, the weakest link is the weld, if a stainless weld is exposed for any length of time in acid it will be attacked, the mild steel exposed and deterioration speeds up, metallic taste, black coloring, after reading the information on s/steel chlorine and chloride, heat and pH levels, could this be the source of the problem?
It does make good reading, about something I believed was almost indestructible.


----------



## Zorco

I've tried to find something that would produce a similar result.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iC7-FcRVXDY


----------



## peteru

Parks said:


> FYI - when you sand your keg with 1000grit Wet-dry the water turns black. I would be suspicious that the rice is actually being abrasive to the inside of these mini-kegs.
> 
> (Note: I know this because I've been trying to polish my corny kegs  )


Yeah, but no, but yeah, but definitely no.

If the rice was so abrasive that it was removing enough solid metal to show discolouration, then repeating the process would continue to produce the same results - black water. It does not do that. A second rice rinse test performed straight after the first one will show significantly less discolouration. The questions is, will the black film come back after being exposed to air or beer for a few weeks?

I'd be also worried about the material if uncooked rice mixed with water could grind it. I certainly wouldn't expect solid 304 stainless steel to give way to rice.


----------



## Zorco

Have we seen this film? I've seen rice juice.

Could it be from infection?


----------



## Zorco

I left my rice solution in overnight. Will go and have another look shortly.


----------



## Batz

Zorco said:


> Premature I would like to point out; we don't event know why it is doing what it's doing.


Yes agree, I did get a little caught up in all the hype. To be truthful I forgot about the white coloured rice juice too. Well it's been raining and my bar did open a little earlier than usual. :lol: :lol: :chug: :chug:


----------



## peteru

The whole idea with using rice grains is not to produce some kind of a reaction, but to provide some mild mechanical action against the surface film and to help wear it off. Rice just happens to be the most convenient thing around the house that is safe to use on food stuff, will fit inside and is about the right hardness.

You can try other things instead of rice if you like. Small lego pieces, ball bearings, bunch PET bottle tops, whatever will fit and cause some mechanical forces against the walls of the keg.


----------



## Zorco

I liked how the white of the rice created contrast for the contaminant...


----------



## Zorco

Batz said:


> Yes agree, I did get a little caught up in all the hype. To be truthful I forgot about the white coloured rice juice too. Well it's been raining and my bar did open a little earlier than usual. :lol: :lol: :chug: :chug:


Work sent everyone home today. It is rare I get a Thursday lunchtime rumbo or four

Number two just prepared [emoji39]


----------



## mstrelan

peteru said:


> The questions is, will the black film come back after being exposed to air or beer for a few weeks?


That's exactly what I'm wondering. Can I just keep cleaning this or filling it with beer until it runs clear?


----------



## chrisluki

Hey guys, i am looking into doing some kegging with my new Brewie.

Where is the best place to source keg stuff from?

iKegger?


----------



## Zorco

mstrelan said:


> That's exactly what I'm wondering. Can I just keep cleaning this or filling it with beer until it runs clear?


What is the source of the black? That is the fundamental question!

If you blokes had stout in these things, let the kegs warm up and get syrupy then rinsed them with rice juice and complain about the colour my mind will explode and I'll have to get my wife to put it back together again.

(But know that's not the case....just emphasising the missing facts here)


----------



## bradsbrew

The Great Rice Test of 2017. 
Will be of legend, like kittens n stuff.


----------



## Zorco

I can't find the MSDS for the chemical in the video I pasted about an hour ago. I want to know if the chemicals in that product have any similarities to what we use in brewing world


----------



## Zorco

bradsbrew said:


> The Great Rice Test of 2017.
> Will be of legend, like kittens n stuff.


I'm all riced out.... and my wife is pissed off that I used all the Arborio


----------



## mstrelan

Zorco said:


> What is the source of the black? That is the fundamental question!


Has anyone had a brand new mini keg that they had beer in for a while, perhaps several times, and it eventually developed the blackness? That would suggest that something is causing it go turn black.

For me, when I first received it I didn't really check if it was black, I just cleaned it with Sodium Perc and Star San, then filled with beer. Was fine for the first day but the second day it tasted metallic. I figured I hadn't cleaned it properly the first time. That's when I gave it a thorough cleaning and first noticed the black film. I perceived that to be the cleaning solution doing it's job. I then filled with beer (dark lager) which sat for a week or two. It was undrinkable so I tipped it out, rinsed with water and then did the rice test. I'm hoping that the rice test(s) helped to clean out the left over black film and that subsequent fills will be more successful. But I don't have any beer I want to risk at the moment. I might try Sod Perc then Star San again and see how it comes out.


----------



## Nullnvoid

How many kittens do you need to put in to test this out?


----------



## Batz

peteru said:


> The whole idea with using rice grains is not to produce some kind of a reaction, but to provide some mild mechanical action against the surface film and to help wear it off. the keg.



And here I was thinking it was to feed any chooks in there. :lol:  :lol:


----------



## Batz

bradsbrew said:


> The Great Rice Test of 2017.
> Will be of legend, like kittens n stuff.


The peteru method, could rival the Ross method of years ago.


----------



## earle

bradsbrew said:


> The Great Rice Test of 2017.
> Will be of legend, like kittens n stuff.


My mini keg has stopped bubbling. Is it ready to drink?


----------



## Kingy

peteru said:


> The whole idea with using rice grains is not to produce some kind of a reaction, but to provide some mild mechanical action against the surface film and to help wear it off. Rice just happens to be the most convenient thing around the house that is safe to use on food stuff, will fit inside and is about the right hardness.
> 
> You can try other things instead of rice if you like. Small lego pieces, ball bearings, bunch PET bottle tops, whatever will fit and cause some mechanical forces against the walls of the keg.


My wife dropped her iPhone in the bath once, when I googled how to fix it,it came up, put the iPhone in a ziplock bag filled with rice and leave it for a few days in a warm environment and a Chinaman will come fix it. 
It actually worked. 
A little off topic but rice is a good way to fix things.


----------



## Batz

Kingy said:


> My wife dropped her iPhone in the bath once, when I googled how to fix it,it came up, put the iPhone in a ziplock bag filled with rice and leave it for a few days in a warm environment and a Chinaman will come fix it.
> It actually worked.
> A little off topic but rice is a good way to fix things.


----------



## Dae Tripper

Endoscope results!
One keg awesome one keg reasonable yet un-pickled. Both riced and come out ok. 
If you have a suspect one in the Hunter Valley area I would love to have a look inside... your keg! 

Pictures of the good one this post.


----------



## Dae Tripper

Somehow this keg seems it has missed out on some pickling time. The worst is where the handle is spot welded on.
Need to find a bad keg to inspect. 
Personally this is now my one day only keg.


----------



## Dae Tripper

Opps I forgot to look at the handle welds on the good keg. Not great.


----------



## malt and barley blues

Were they all from the same purchase?


----------



## peteru

The side weld on your bad keg looks a lot like what I can make out in my keg. Black line in the middle of the seam, then shiny area and discolouration on sides of the weld.

I contemplated buying an endoscope just for this, but the cheap ones (around $20-$30) will take weeks to get here. I'm not keen on spending $70+ for a locally sourced one.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Good penetration, shame about the pickling, does explain the mystery of the black beer, the acidity of the beer is pickling the weld, either send them back (I would do this) or make up a solution of citric acid and pickle.

Are these are the mini kegs bound for Australia.


----------



## Zorco

Again, a call for perspective..

We've bought each keg for a few tens of dollars and still have no facts on any risks.

The representative from the stainless steel industry called me yesterday, but I was getting home from the CBD. 

I'll try and speak with him today.


----------



## Coalminer

WEAL can you give details of pickling with citric acid? solution strength, times etc?


----------



## Jack of all biers

It has been provided elsewhere. I think it was MHB. 120 gm/L citric acid up at around 70C for 10 mins or 30 min at room temp. Rinse and leave to dry passivate for a few days. This would be for a standard passivation, but with those welds I'd be checking them first prior to letting it dry. To be honest though, I'd be at least letting your retailer know about it as there may be lots of customers effected who aren't following this thread.


----------



## trhr

Coalminer said:


> WEAL can you give details of pickling with citric acid? solution strength, times etc?


If they're as bad as some of my kegs, there's a few steps. 
They really need a SS commercial cleaner to remove the impurities, then some pickling bath fluid needs to diluted and poured into the keg, then I'd do the same with a passivation chemical to be sure. Then whatever cleaning process is required afterwards.

As said before, I run a construction business which specialises in steel fab and do some SS, but hardly any food grade work. So I won't bother trying, instead when I have time I'll drop them off to my SS pipe/tank welding friends to fix in exchange for some brew.

This all should have been done before we got the kegs. Im combination with the faulty regs, I'm feeling pretty underwhelmed. 

I may one day try them again, but for now I'm going back to 9L kegs and growlers.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

What Redman says is correct, if the pickling has been missed then what's to saY the degreasing which is the operation prior to pickling wasn't missed also,
the acid will not remove any manufacturing oils. The safest way is to use the citric acid but it does need to be heated to around 55 to 60 degrees C I believe
You will probably find something in Google


----------



## Grott

It would seem everyone but WEAL ignored my post #671. Just saying in a friendly way.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

You made the right call there grott, hard to believe that the pickling would be missed. I have used hydrofluoric acid before on brazed joints very effective and quick but not very nice to use.


----------



## Dae Tripper

malt & barley blues said:


> Were they all from the same purchase?


Yes, same purchase.


----------



## Dae Tripper

Ok so I am going to let some people know the difference between pickling and passivation as currently I disagree with using citric acid to pickle, yet it is a useful passivation acid, I could be wrong though. 

Waiting for a mate I emailed last night with the photos as he is a bit of a stainless guru.


Pickling

Pickling is the removal of any high temperature scale and any adjacent low chromium layer of metal from the surface of stainless steel by chemical means.

Where the steel has been heated by welding, heat treatments or other means, to the point where a coloured oxide layer can be seen, there is a chromium depleted layer on the surface of the steel underneath the oxide layer. The lower chromium content gives lower corrosion resistance. To restore the best corrosion resistant performance, the damaged metal layer must be removed, exposing a fully alloyed stainless steel surface. Mechanical removal may leave abrasive or other particles embedded (interfering with corrosion performance) or may be impractical, so chemical means are usually employed.

Procedures incorporating pickling solutions of nitric (HNO3) and hydrofluoric (HF) acids remove the scale and the underlying chromium depleted layer and restore the corrosion resistance. Pickling solutions also remove contaminants such as ferrous and ferric oxide particles. Pickling solutions other than mixtures of nitric and hydrofluoric acids exist and can be used for specialised applications.

Pickling pastes, where the solution is mixed with an inert carrier, are commonly used to treat selected areas such as welds.

Pickling involves metal removal and a change or dulling in the visual brightness of the metal.

Electropolishing is a useful alternative to pickling. Metal removal is achieved, but usually results in a bright, smooth and more highly corrosion resistant finish.

Passivation

Passivation is the treatment of the surface of stainless steels, often with acid solutions (or pastes), to remove contaminants and promote the formation of the passive film on a freshly created surface (e.g. through grinding, machining or mechanical damage).

Common passivation treatments include nitric acid (HNO3) solutions or pastes which will clean the steel surface of free iron contaminants. Care must be taken in selecting and using passivation treatments to ensure the selected treatment will target the contaminant. Passivation will also aid in the rapid development of the passive oxide film on the steel's surface. Passivation does not usually result in a marked change in appearance of the steel surface.

Both pickling and passivation solutions can employ dangerous acids that can damage both the operator and the environment if not handled correctly. Stainless pickling acids are highly corrosive to carbon steel.

It is essential that all acids are thoroughly removed by rinsing the component after completing the process. Residual hydrofluoric acid will initiate pitting corrosion.

It may be advantageous to neutralise the acid with an alkali before the rinsing step.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Yes, that's similar to what grott posted on post 671, citric acid may do it or it may not, that is why I suggested a return, the beer seemed to be pickling the kegs so the citric acid could work, I wouldn't want to advise anyone to go down the hydrofluoric acid route.


----------



## malt junkie

I wouldn't think the average Joe would have much luck with paste either considering the inaccessible location of the welds. I'm still to check mine.


----------



## Zorco

Alright, I don't see any compelling link between untreated Stainless welds and the black rice juice.

But the presence of chromium oxide is a concern

https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/a?dbs+hsdb[email protected]+1619


----------



## Dae Tripper

The beer isn't a pickle, and it is reacting with the metal. 

As above, the oxide layer can be seen, there is a chromium depleted layer on the surface of the steel. The lower chromium content gives lower corrosion resistance.

Basically it would be like putting beer into an iron keg.

Does anyone have a dud keg for me to inspect? I am going from Singleton to Gosford tomorrow morning so I could swing by.


----------



## peteru

Zorco said:


> I don't see any compelling link between untreated Stainless welds and the black rice juice.


I do. The poor welds are corroding and the rice rubs off the corroded layer much better than water alone. That also implies that as long as there is poor quality surface at and around the welds, corrosion will continue and the blackening will recur with time as the "rust" builds up.




Zorco said:


> But the presence of chromium oxide is a concern


Based on that paper, I wouldn't be any more concerned about it than I was before. The corrosion of the minikegs is a concern, but I don't think that there is any reason at all to single out chromium oxide.

My pragmatic take on this problem is that this is a manufacturing and quality control issue. The process was poorly executed. It should have been caught by QC and would have been trivial to fix at the factory - just send the minikegs through an electropolishing bath again and re-passivate. Now that the minikegs have been delivered to customers, remedying the problem is cost prohibitive. Imagine the overheads involved in collecting all the kegs and shipping them back to the factory or to a local business that can do this!

The most practical way to get those minikegs into a usable state would be to come up with a simple enough process that we could use at home to fix them. I am thinking along the lines of a poor mans home made electropolishing setup. Fill keg with appropriate acid solution (something accessible, like citric acid would be best), insert an electrode made of appropriate material through the opening at top and hook up to a battery for x hours. I think we need to get Lyrebird_Cycles involved in this topic - I suspect he'd have a pretty good idea of where to start...


----------



## Zorco

Agree we need an expert to correctly draw conclusion between the welds and the blackening - if any

Nope, not only considering chromium oxide, just the first evidence I've found that there is a health risk.


Your conclusion above has no merit. They do, however, make a good hypothesis. We'll get there I'm sure. I hope I don't get to throwing out all my kegs...


----------



## Zorco

OK, I've spoken with an industry expert and here are my notes.


- It is possible that the stainless steel may be a 200 grade which has a larger manganese component
1: We are going to cut a keg apart and send a sample to an analysis lab for a spectro test

2: We are to look inside a brand new keg and see that it hasn't been pickled

Health concerns part
- In food and very much so for beer, iron dissolving in only a few parts per million can be detected and is unplesant
- Chromium oxide has been extensively studied looking for leaching. On first use some acidic foods like rhubarb and tomatoes can show small levels of chromium oxide but a hot wash would clean new stainless 
-On the surface of the steel there is only a few nanometres of chromium oxide and it stays there, even unpickled weld areas. On the surface it is not Chromium6 which is known to be carcinogenic. It is Chromium3 with no evidence of health concerns; it exists in a relationship with a hydroxide.

Then I asked what could cause the black
It may be the iron as there are oxides of iron that are black. Anyone with a black film can try to use a strong magnet and it should stick. Some sulphides are black and he looked in his chemistry handbook while I was on the phone and checked that there are oxides of manganese which are black.

8We can send a sample to Spectrometer Services. An estimate of cost would be $150 for a simple sample. 
https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1CHBD_en-gbAU720AU720&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=spectrometer+services&*


So where to from here....

Finding a keg to destroy will be simple enough and I think it should be Peteru's or Batz's. As this may have serious outcomes, I'll speak with Mark about providing some/all of the testing fee.

We should also try and replicate the 'blackness' and see if it is magnetic... Peteru, I think that should be in your court.

- I'm leaning towards being happy that whatever is going on, it is safe for consumption - though undesirable.
- I'm also fairly confident that these can first be viewed as manufacturing errors and those who have a problem should get a replacement from Mark immediately.


I've got more to say but need to get lunch before a meeting.

Catch yas!


----------



## Parks

Well the magnet test show interesting results.

My ex hard rive magnet sticks like this:
My 2 iKegger growlers stick hard on the body but only very lightly on the cone.
My "The beer can" 4 L mini keg does not stick on the body but sticks hard on the cone.

So seems like they have 2 different grades on stainless used?


----------



## GoodDuck

It might be interesting to see what happens if you stick a magnet in the Black Rice Juice


----------



## mstrelan

This would have been perfect for me to test if it was a few hours earlier. I left my glass of black rice juice to settle and decanted of the rice water part. I then let that settle again and decanted it off so there was about a quarter teaspoon of pure blackness. It was quite thick and I suspect would have been magnetic. Unfortunately I tipped it down the sink thinking it was not useful.


----------



## hotmelt

Did any of the kegs with the black slime/dirty rice water have keg lube on the threads?Does keg lube dissolve in beer or starsan?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Dae Tripper said:


> The beer isn't a pickle, and it is reacting with the metal.


Your right Day Tripper beer isn't a pickle but the reaction of the beer (which is acid) with the ferrous metal which is on the surface of the weld is pickling, the pH of beer is about 4, Citric acid is about 2.5 pH Hydrochloric acid has a pH of 1, its a bit like putting old copper coins into Coca Cola to remove the oxidisation.


----------



## earle

peteru said:


> The side weld on your bad keg looks a lot like what I can make out in my keg. Black line in the middle of the seam, then shiny area and discolouration on sides of the weld.
> 
> I contemplated buying an endoscope just for this, but the cheap ones (around $20-$30) will take weeks to get here. I'm not keen on spending $70+ for a locally sourced one.


I just picked up an inspection mirror for $6 at super cheap auto. Combined with my LED torch which I can focus to a pencil beam. Managed to get a pretty good look in my Ikegger mini keg and the top welds look pretty good.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Could be where the kegs were bought from, the company I was talking to in China emailed me today and told me they are a premier producer and produce 1000 kegs a day under strict quality control, and never has anything like what has eventuated here has ever happened to them.
Still leaning towards the plastic kegs, double wall, 'D' connector, and away you go.


----------



## malt junkie

wide eyed and legless said:


> Could be where the kegs were bought from, the company I was talking to in China emailed me today and told me they are a premier producer and produce 1000 kegs a day under strict quality control, and never has anything like what has eventuated here has ever happened to them.
> Still leaning towards the plastic kegs, double wall, 'D' connector, and away you go.


Questions

Link to the plastic kegs?
Are the able to be disassembled for cleaning or are they one time use or are you thinking some sort of CIP?
What sizes?
What sort of cost?

I seriously considered Stout tanks 1/6th 'D' couple kegs but shipping was prohibitive. (this was when the dollar was at or better than parity) I was then and would still now consider building a CIP keg washer.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Might have to start another thread to cover the plastic kegs MJ, otherwise we will be interfering with what is going on here.
Check out plastic kegs on Alibaba for now.


----------



## Zorco

earle said:


> I just picked up an inspection mirror for $6 at super cheap auto. Combined with my LED torch which I can focus to a pencil beam. Managed to get a pretty good look in my Ikegger mini keg and the top welds look pretty good.


That's a good idea. I'll try and get one on my way home.


----------



## Zorco

hotmelt said:


> Did any of the kegs with the black slime/dirty rice water have keg lube on the threads?Does keg lube dissolve in beer or starsan?


Another good idea!! I had discounted a reaction between oils and sanitiser / cleaners. 

When I get some new StarSan I'll see what happens. 

Really appreciate the lateral thinking


----------



## Batz

Zorco said:


> Another good idea!! I had discounted a reaction between oils and sanitiser / cleaners.
> 
> When I get some new StarSan I'll see what happens.
> 
> Really appreciate the lateral thinking



Perhaps someone put beer into one of them???

Holy shit, these are suppose to be kegs we brewers can use, I personally would expect no less from a corny keg I have been using for 16 plus years. I use sodium perc., phos. acid. any other cleaner in them without a problem. Now keg lube?? Your gotta be kidding me.

Nanny kegs?

Besides all this I'm now happy with mine, but there does seem to be a problem with some others.


----------



## nosco

Could re-pickling the welds possibly cause a leak? I had to replace my first one (through a re seller) because a tiny leak that took me a long time discover. Seems my replacement may have the black stuff but I have to do the rice test.


----------



## SBOB

So, decided to give my 2 mini kegs a rice-ing and see what came out. Gave them a sodium perc clean, rinse then rice/water shake
I have a 2L and a 5L.. both have been used a handful of times prior

5L looks fine (white liquid, as expected from rice starch)
2L looks like some of those offending images from others (damn)

Going to leave them to dry and repeat again later and see whether the issue re-occurs or not


----------



## Zorco

Batz said:


> Perhaps someone put beer into one of them???
> 
> Holy shit, these are suppose to be kegs we brewers can use, I personally would expect no less from a corny keg I have been using for 16 plus years. I use sodium perc., phos. acid. any other cleaner in them without a problem. Now keg lube?? Your gotta be kidding me.
> 
> Nanny kegs?
> 
> Besides all this I'm now happy with mine, but there does seem to be a problem with some others.


 I was being funny - but not like that nanny you speak of.

Cheers Batz,


----------



## Zorco

SBOB said:


> So, decided to give my 2 mini kegs a rice-ing and see what came out. Gave them a sodium perc clean, rinse then rice/water shake
> I have a 2L and a 5L.. both have been used a handful of times prior
> 
> 5L looks fine (white liquid, as expected from rice starch)
> 2L looks like some of those offending images from others (damn)
> 
> Going to leave them to dry and repeat again later and see whether the issue re-occurs or not


Got a strong magnet?


----------



## Mardoo

I got a Monster Magnet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKj5cJ9_KSg


----------



## SBOB

Zorco said:


> Got a strong magnet?


only my personality 

I do have some small neodymium magnets from a stir plate build
Want to see if the suspended stuff is magnetic?


----------



## Zorco

Yep. Looking for iron oxide. 

Graham, the industry bloke, said it should "stick" to the magnet.

Can you make an instructional video like this too?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NHqN-Be5nlU

[emoji51]


----------



## SBOB

i have a heap of small ones so I'll let you know in a bit

Stuck a bunch in with a couple on the outside to suspend them 3/4 of the way down the glass


----------



## Zorco




----------



## nosco

Could you get Galvanic corrosion (not sure what its called) from 2 different grades of stainless? I tried 2 big magnets (i cant get them apart) on the keg. It wont stick to anything but I can move the keg when I put it near the handle or the bulk head. Nothing with the keg body.


----------



## SBOB

So, I guess that shows that whatever is suspended in my grey coloured liquid sample is magnetic

Magnets submerged for ~20mins show that black 'stuff' has been attracted to the small magnets in the line


----------



## Zorco

Evidence!


----------



## Bones99

No matter what the result, there is clearly a production problem and we shouldn't need to be the one's doing the testing and investigation.

These are meant to be food grade quality and some clearly are not.

Pickling, treating, etc should not be our issue, nor should the cost of doing so.

I've had one mini keg replaced due to it not holding pressure, but unsure if my replacement is the good or bad one out of the two I have.

Guess which one has shown 'rust' marks on the silicone dip tube, poured out black when rinsed and has a metallic rusty taste to the beer if stored for a period of time?

Instead of trying to solve the problem, I think our time would be better spent working out the health implications from drinking out of these. I'm sure the seller wouldn't want a class health case against them and will take the appropriate action to rectify, but I'm more concerned about my health after using these.

Pic 1 is one mini and pics 2&3 are the other.


----------



## Zorco

And sodium percarbonate as an oxidiser might be the worst thing to use.


----------



## Bones99

Yep. And guess what I use to clean......Sodium perc & I normally even store sodium perc in my kegs until I need to fill them


----------



## Zorco

Regarding health risk: This is not advice, but when I asked this today the expert thought not. 

But very much agree. It is looking like we know some of the facts now


----------



## Zorco

Best photos yet


----------



## SBOB

Bones99 said:


> Instead of trying to solve the problem, I think our time would be better spent working out the health implications from drinking out of these. I'm sure the seller wouldn't want a class health case against them and will take the appropriate action to rectify, but I'm more concerned about my health after using these.


if its just rust/iron oxide, I wouldn't be too worried

People would likely consume more from cooking on a slightly rusty cast iron bbq or from inadvertently consuming water from their old hot water system

In minimal quantities, its not a health risk (likely way less of one than the alcohol anyway  )


----------



## Zorco

I'll choose my most suspect looking keg and fill it with Perc to try and replicate these results. 

It is pretty fucked this situation now, but really satisfying that things are making sense all of a sudden.

Disagree with one thing bones, it is everyone's responsibility to figure things out.

Next week will be big, but I've spent a lot more energy on this than I wanted to and have had it.

Time for a beer.


----------



## Lyrebird_Cycles

Unfortunately your source is misinformed, that's not diagnostic of iron oxide: chromium oxide is strongly ferromagnetic (those of you who are old enough to remember tape audio media may remember that "chrome" tapes commanded a premium).

Similarly the magnetic permeability of the steel itself doesn't necessariy tell you anything: although 300 grade steels are austenitic and thus have magnetic permeabilities near 1 in the annealed state (eg they are apparently non-magnetic), they can form ferrite and / or martensite on cold working, both have much higher permeabilities (eg are apparently magnetic).


----------



## Zorco

Bout time you turned up!


----------



## Zorco

So what can SBOB do to confirm iron oxide with his sample?


----------



## nosco

Flame it and see what colour the sparks are?


----------



## Zorco

To be fair, Graham never said Chromium was/wasn't magnetic. I've still got some of those tapes..


----------



## Lyrebird_Cycles

Zorco said:


> So what can SBOB do to confirm iron oxide with his sample?



Send me a sample


----------



## Lyrebird_Cycles

nosco said:


> Flame it and see what colour the sparks are?


I thought of that, but not sure that an oxide will react (it being already oxidised).


----------



## SBOB

nosco said:


> Flame it and see what colour the sparks are?


----------



## mtb

Bones99 said:


> there is clearly a production problem and we shouldn't need to be the one's doing the testing and investigation


If this were some sort of monopoly we're dealing with, a faceless turd who is clearly ripping off their customer, I'd agree. But we're not; we're dealing with Mark from All Things Home Brew.

Clearly Mark's been duped to some degree by his suppliers. We have the option to leave him to the fate shared by many other importers here in Aus, but is that in our best interests? No, it's in our best interests to do what we can to figure this out (Zorco is doing a fantastic job coordinating root cause analysis btw) so we can ensure availability of sweet, sweet affordable kegs well into the future.


----------



## Zorco

My super High Gravity beer entry is ready, can I send that too?


----------



## GoodDuck

Sigh - we need a clear way forward with this issue.
If feels like we are going around in circles with, many opinions.
I tend to agree with Bones, there is obviously something wrong with a significant percentage of these units (too many to ignore), and the onus is NOT on us to democratically arrive at some conclusion.
These units (with heads) cost more than a new full size Corny keg, and are too costly to sit on a shelf looking pretty.


----------



## Zorco

It is clear to me. Read the MKIV thread I just posted.

Breathe goodduck, we are only an hour into evidence mode..... on a Friday night.

Until then it was the rice juice story.

I got this, we got this. I'll speak to Mark


----------



## Zorco

Keep calm and drink beer AHB....


----------



## GoodDuck

Sorry, am I supposed to be following the MKIV thread? 
i.e is there an official thread for this issue?


----------



## Zorco

Alrighty,

I've just knocked up a spreadsheet to track this issue, A good idea from earlier. 

A five second memory dump has about 5 people which I've invited. If you have an issue with your keg regarding metal taste, darkening of your beer etc. let me know and I'll add you to the PM.

Try and fill in all the fields as it may help with tracking a bad batch.


----------



## mtb

I feel it's worth raising separate threads to track the specific questions being asked and answered, seeing as we have more than one. Separate audiences have their own concerns so it's worth addressing separately.
1. are the already-purchased kegs safe to use, and
2. will this affect bulk buy MKIV.

I still think a tracking spreadsheet might be worthwhile, if we can settle on a reliable testing method for people to undertake and post their findings

ed: just realised there are two separate threads already.. that aspergers that nets me so much cash from IT also makes me over-think things before checking my facts. Another beer perhaps!


----------



## LiquidGold

Join me up, yet to do more rice tests and to check my 2L


----------



## mtb

.. too many beers while writing that post, just saw Costco's was added after I started writing it.. Please add me to the PM


----------



## GoodDuck

Please add me too


----------



## Zorco

Done, If you think of any other details to help with this, you have full edit permissions on the sheet.


----------



## Zorco

mtb said:


> .. too many beers while writing that post, just saw Costco's was added after I started writing it.. Please add me to the PM


You keep me on my toes mate..


----------



## peteru

As far as the magnetic properties are concerned, I did a magnet test on mine and as expected, it's mostly non-magnetic. The only parts that appear to be magnetic are those that were clearly cold worked, like the rolled edge of the handle, the domed bottom section, and the edges of the lid.


----------



## peteru

Oh, the weld line is also magnetic.


----------



## Liam_snorkel

Got my kegs from beerkat. Only used one so far, but it has developed a metallic taste after beer being in it for two weeks (at 3.7deg). It's a dark beer so can't comment on colour. 
It's also a commercial beer that I paid a silly amount for to fill the 5L so it's pretty disappointing.

Did nothing other than a hot sodium perc wash (can't remember dosage but it was one I found as recommended for stainless) followed by multiple water rinses prior to use. No starsan.


----------



## Zorco

Beerkat kegs are in the spreadsheet. I'll invite you in


----------



## gezzanet

Zorco said:


> Beerkat kegs are in the spreadsheet. I'll invite you in


pls add me to the list. See post 513. I have at least one dud


----------



## Mardoo

Me too. Hooray. Damn, I should have bought that new mill with the tax return. I know I have one that goes metallic. Now to figure out whether it's one or both. I also need to get the regulators sorted. 

Is visual inspection going to be best? Rice test? I certainly don't feel like potentially wasting 10L of beer to find out. I guess I could waste 10L of VB without too much damage to my conscience. I'd have to taste it though. How would I tell if it was off?


----------



## Coalminer

Add me into the spreadsheet please Zorco


----------



## wide eyed and legless

GoodDuck said:


> Sigh - we need a clear way forward with this issue.
> If feels like we are going around in circles with, many opinions.
> I tend to agree with Bones, there is obviously something wrong with a significant percentage of these units (too many to ignore), and the onus is NOT on us to democratically arrive at some conclusion.
> These units (with heads) cost more than a new full size Corny keg, and are too costly to sit on a shelf looking pretty.


Though only an observer and while it was interesting looking into the cause, under consumer laws a purchase has to be of merchantable quality, and a right to return if not, Good Duck and Bones raise the point that it is not up to the buyer to fix the problem but up to the retailer to fix the problem.
It is not negotiable.


----------



## Zorco

Edit: Grumpy Zorco said cranky words - corrected with a coffee


----------



## Zorco

Crew added to PM.


----------



## Bones99

Don't get me wrong here either guys, I was not taking aim at Mark in any way as I've had dealings with him privately in the past and he's been awesome, I was just pointing out the fact that there is clearly something wrong with these that needs to be rectified


----------



## Zorco

Yeah, any talk of consumer law in this matter is out of place..... never at one moment was it said that Mark would not help with this. In fact the opposite all the time. 

WEAL's lynch mob instincts are felt by others I'm sure. I hope he does move over to his plastic keg thread, run a bulk buy with a new product and see how it goes - I do hope it goes well, but commitment must be there when something goes wrong.

I've thought that the AHB community comes before us as AHB consumers.... I'll bring Mark into the PM so he can have all the details and evidence we've accumulated. What that actually does is support our retailer when he discusses with his supplier.


----------



## Grott

Mardoo said:


> I guess I could waste 10L of VB without too much damage to my conscience. I'd have to taste it though. How would I tell if it was off?


If the keg is ok then it will taste off, if the keg is faulty would suspect a VB improvement.


----------



## Jack of all biers

wide eyed and legless said:


> The paragraph in the linked article he says he leaves them dry and open for a couple of weeks for natural repassivation, *maybe that or a chemical repassivation should be tried first before warranty claims are put in*.





wide eyed and legless said:


> Though only an observer and while it was interesting looking into the cause, under consumer laws a purchase has to be of merchantable quality, and a right to return if not, Good Duck and Bones raise the point that *it is not up to the buyer to fix the problem but up to the retailer to fix the problem*.
> It is not negotiable.


I'm glad you agree. It's good to see opinions can be changed in the 4 days of discussion so far. It maybe the case that the current reference to Australian consumer law has already been intimated by Zorco and explicitly stated by me over 200 posts ago, but it is good to remind those who haven't read the multiple pages since then.

See Zorco, no cranky words needed.

EDIT - I see that in the time it took me to make this post there have been a flurry of other posts. To be fair, reference to Australian consumer law does not imply that the retailer has or will do anything wrong, but it gives all parties confidence in their standing on where they sit (stand/sit in the same sentence in that context. I see what I have done here h34r. It should ALWAYS begin and end in polite negotiation. Whether it be ATHB (clearly he has offered to replace any defect kegs 100's of posts ago) or Beerkat (who have been one of the best customer focused retailers I have dealt with in years) or another retailer, the law is just a clear statement of where all parties stand, not a large stick approach that some feel the law is (ie people should not begin with "I have rights and I demand compensation", but rather "I have a problem with a product I bought, how can we best resolve this"). Any other approach would be just rude of the customer (ie us)


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Zorco said:


> Yeah, any talk of consumer law in this matter is out of place..... never at one moment was it said that Mark would not help with this. In fact the opposite all the time.
> 
> WEAL's lynch mob instincts are felt by others I'm sure. I hope he does move over to his plastic keg thread, run a bulk buy with a new product and see how it goes - I do hope it goes well, but commitment must be there when something goes wrong.
> 
> I've thought that the AHB community comes before us as AHB consumers.... I'll bring Mark into the PM so he can have all the details and evidence we've accumulated. What that actually does is support our retailer when he discusses with his supplier.


Its not a lynch mob instinct zorco, plainly there are problems, you led an admirable charge in a bulk buy, but there are now issues which do need to be addressed by the retailer not a fix by the purchaser.

I never said I would be running any bulk buy of the plastic kegs just that I almost pulled the trigger on 2 x 4litre S/S kegs with double ball lock regulator etc but with no gas direct from a supplier in China, but all the problems the bulk buyers have had have turned me back to the plastic kegs even though I have had assurances from the supplier I contacted in China that there would be no problem with their kegs.


----------



## Zorco

That's nice. Glad you're here to help direct this wayward ship WEAL. We wouldn't have known what to do next!

By all means revert to your role as observer


----------



## goatchop41

Hey Zorco, can you add me in to the PM please! I had metallic flavours (but no discolouration) in one of my mini kegs


----------



## SBOB

FYI Magnets after a night in the grey murky depths








Looking at the glass it seems that the vast majority of dark sediment is either attached to the magnet or settled on the bottom.. So the simple solution is just to throw a bunch of magnets into any brew you put in, let it settle for ~24 hours and you're good to go (though you might want to shorten the dip tube  )


----------



## Jack of all biers

This probably will pick up the larger pieces of iron oxide, but not really a solution. The metal flavours will still be in the beer, so any unpleasant taste will remain. Good thinking outside the square, but probably not an effective solution to the core problems.


----------



## GoodDuck

Out of curiosity, how many magnets are there SBOB?


----------



## SBOB

Jack of all biers said:


> This probably will pick up the larger pieces of iron oxide, but not really a solution. The metal flavours will still be in the beer, so any unpleasant taste will remain. Good thinking outside the square, but probably not an effective solution to the core problems.


was about 0.0001% serious.. mostly sarcastic


----------



## SBOB

GoodDuck said:


> Out of curiosity, how many magnets are there SBOB?


 about 13x 2mm (i think) thick magnets


----------



## Jack of all biers

SBOB said:


> was about 0.0001% serious.. mostly sarcastic


Thank F**k for that. :lol: I was starting to worry. Some on this thread are taking some information and running in directions that are a little OT, so I just wanted to temper any one that took your statement seriously (I did and thought you were rockers  )

I have now tested my 2 mini kegs from Beerkat because of the welding heat marks that I can see on the outside spot welds of one of them (photos posted earlier) I was a little worried. Each keg was soaked in 10gm/L Sodium Percarbonate for a couple of hours, rinsed thoroughly, then treated with starsan (1.5ml/L) before being filled with beer. 

The brew has been naturally carbonating for 2 weeks in each of these and the only difference is that each keg holds the same recipe from two different fermenters with one being cloudier going into the kegs (as per this experiment). The results are no blackness in the beer and only one had a slight metallic taste, though it reminds me of Carlton Draught or West End type taste, so not necessarily good, but not shockingly over powering. That keg is the one with heat marks and one divot on the outside that appears to contain some oxide residue. I got the wife to compare the two without telling her which I thought tasted different and she also picked up a slight metallic taste. I will keep an eye on it, but all appears relatively quiet on the Western Front re my Beerkat kegs. I will still be physically looking inside these, when they are empty.

Left is the clearer, but slightly metallic tasting one.



Left is the clearer, but slight metallic tasting one.



EDIT - It came to me what the taste is like. A lager beer stored in a can, drunk from the can. That kind of metallic taste.


----------



## malt junkie

SBOB said:


> was about 0.0001% serious.. mostly sarcastic


 And note after so many site upgrades the sarcasm font still isn't working!


----------



## Batz

Talking of magnets

Magnets stick to my 1.89L keg but not any of my 4x5L kegs. Must be a different grade of stainless on the 1.89L.

Anyone else besides Brad (http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/93914-beerkat-kegs-growlers/page-10#entry1446736)
tried this?


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Zorco said:


> Alrighty,
> 
> I've just knocked up a spreadsheet to track this issue, A good idea from earlier.
> 
> A five second memory dump has about 5 people which I've invited. If you have an issue with your keg regarding metal taste, darkening of your beer etc. let me know and I'll add you to the PM.
> 
> Try and fill in all the fields as it may help with tracking a bad batch.


Hey Zorco, I've just got to the end of one of my kegs and a metallic taste seems to be present. I'll do the rice test tonight and post results


----------



## Jack of all biers

Batz said:


> Talking of magnets
> 
> Magnets stick to my 1.89L keg but not any of my 4x5L kegs. Must be a different grade of stainless on the 1.89L.
> 
> Anyone else besides Brad (http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/93914-beerkat-kegs-growlers/page-10#entry1446736)
> tried this?


I think LC may have explained this in post #789 (page 40). 300 SS can appear magnetic or not depending on how it is worked (or that is my take of what he said)


----------



## malt and barley blues

Just because it's stainless doesn't indicate it is not magnetic as LBC said, as a retired welder I could say that a lower grade stainless filler rod could have been used but I very much doubt it, why manufacture an item then skimp a few dollars on the filler.
http://www.australwright.com.au/stainless-steel-magnetism-corrosion-resistance/


----------



## SBOB

malt & barley blues said:


> why manufacture an item then skimp a few dollars on the filler.


because these things are made to a price in China


----------



## peekaboo_jones

peekaboo_jones said:


> Hey Zorco, I've just got to the end of one of my kegs and a metallic taste seems to be present. I'll do the rice test tonight and post results


Rice test done and result is CLEAR. Just yeasty beer residue from nat carbing. Hmm it was a Saison that was quite clean flavour, not sure maybe it just was mentally 'tinny'


----------



## malt and barley blues

Sorry didn't see that post from Joab. SBOB, hard to believe that a couple of cents in our money would influence them to forfeit what should be a prestige product to a piece of rubbish.


----------



## Zorco

Some interesting preliminary data on the keg corrosion issue.

*83.3%* of registered faulty kegs (From ATHB) were purchased in MKII. A few from Beerkat.... When were they bought approximately? - Might be good to correlate when Beerkat ordered them from the supplier and see if it aligned with the MKII order.

This is not conclusive, but a tiny trend which we will keep reviewing.


AND IT DOESN'T FOLLOW THAT EVERYONE IN MKII WILL HAVE A PROBLEM.

It might have been one unskilled dude on the production line from a team of fabricators.... Maybe he didn't know the argon tank was empty and purging was simply not happening.

All guesses, so nothing to conclude........


----------



## mstrelan

BK keg purchased late Jan this year.


----------



## Zorco

peekaboo_jones said:


> Rice test done and result is CLEAR. Just yeasty beer residue from nat carbing. Hmm it was a Saison that was quite clean flavour, not sure maybe it just was mentally 'tinny'


The industry expert said that only a few ppm will cause a problem for flavour. When your keg is rinsed maybe give it a dose of sodium percarbonate - oxidise whatever iron is vulnerable and do the Trademarked rinse again. 

I'll invite you to the PM anyway mate, feel free to register your suspect keg if / whenever you feel like it.

Which bulk buy did you get that one from? [MKI; MKII; MKIII]?


----------



## Jack of all biers

Zorco said:


> The industry expert said that only a few ppm will cause a problem for flavour.


NHMRC Guideline Value's have Aesthetic values for Iron at 0.3 ppm. Essentially anything higher than that will be tasted. My opinion is that 0.2 ppm or higher can be tasted by some, but this is more anecdotal than evidence based. Note that this is for Iron, not Iron Oxide or other Oxides, but I'd suggest it would be similar.

EDIT - Just re the whole magnet test. I know that Lyrebird_cycles has already alluded to this, but as some have still be using magnets as some sort of test indicator. From wikipedia.

_Chromium dioxide or chromium(IV) oxide is an inorganic compound with the formula CrO2. It is a black synthetic *magnetic solid.*[3] It once was widely used in magnetic tape emulsion.[4] With the increasing popularity of CDs and DVDs, the use of chromium(IV) oxide has declined. However, it is still used in data tape applications for enterprise-class storage systems. It is still considered by many oxide and tape manufacturers to have been one of the best magnetic recording particulates ever invented._


----------



## nosco

I got this inspection camera from Bunnings for about $35 I think to check a problem with our plumbing. I have been trying to find it. Sorry for the crap camera work but Im using a coat hanger wire to control it.

Edit: cant upload atm but there is clearly rust on the inside top of the keg. Near the weld and also on some scratches. Ill try and put it on Youtube and post but the internet is a bit slow.


----------



## nosco

Finally got it working. I have only used this keg a few times because a faulty reg so it has been cleaned with perc and stored with a starsan solution. Im the wrong person to be making any conclusions from this but I would have thought that the starsan would passivate the stainless. The rust spots at the end could maybe be fixed by re-passivating. Its hard to see the weld in the light but Ill have a go at it with some Tricleanium and starsan when I get the time. I hope the vid helps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?edit=vd&v=AqVfzvBB1vo

Edit:the camera is a usb camera from the plumbing section at Bunnings about $35. The vid is of the inside of the top of the keg.


----------



## peteru

nosco said:


> Finally got it working.


Computer says: No.


----------



## Zorco

Just added you to the PM nosco. When your photos and vids are all good, please upload them to the google drive.


----------



## bradsbrew

I cant accept that a product sold as 304 will hold a magnet. This is a 1.89L BK keg , holding a folded envelope, thats 4 sheets of paper and folded again, thats 8 sheets thick and still holding.
Showed this to my BIL yesterday, in over 20 years of fabricating SS he has never seen a magnet hold on 304 SS.


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Thanks Zorco, no worries I shall have another crack today.
Kegs purchased from bb MKIII.

Slightly off current topic feedback: I have 2 mini regs and work perfect every time, just using the small bulbs


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Reading the link from mbb the stainless becmes magnetic after being worked, rolled, pressed, folded etc.


----------



## bradsbrew

wide eyed and legless said:


> Reading the link from mbb the stainless becmes magnetic after being worked, rolled, pressed, folded etc.


Read a few articles as well. Tried the same magnet on cornie kegs, old brewery kegs, all my brew pots and another BK 5L keg and it did not stick, not even keg king products, which was a nice surprise. Assuming the mini kegs go through the same manufacturing process, surely it is a different metal?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Try the magnets on the kitchen sink.


----------



## bradsbrew

wide eyed and legless said:


> Try the magnets on the kitchen sink.


Not sure if the sink would be 304? Maybe 301 or a 400 type?
Tried it anyway. Magnet only holds to bends and folds, not on flat parts and the hold is not as firm as it is on the keg.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

The sink is 304 and the magnet is sticking where it was formed, a bit like work hardening but work magnetising.
Would be an interesting exercise for say a 4 litre Beercat and a 4 litre from the bulk buy to be measured and the dimensions checked against each other. If it came from the same tooling they would match and then it would give an indication whether they came from the same manufacturer.


----------



## Coalminer

Well the 2L kegs and 5L kegs that I have are different to each other
the 2L kegs are very magnetic on the main body and the top and bottom as well as the welds and handle
the 5L kegs (bought in the same bulk buy) are not magnetic apart from around the welds
So I would assume (I know I shouldn't) that they are different grades af metal to start with
I don't know if this is a proper way to prove quality and also may depend on how strong the magnet is
I have used a magnet out of a hard drive and testing around the brewery I have found magnetic areas in the following:

10 x 19L Cornies
3 x 9L Cornies
2 x 30L Aginox Olive oil drum fermenters
2 x 15L Aginox Olive oil drum fermenters
1 x 20L Braumeister
and various other equipment, spoons, funnels etc
The caps and head units are not

all this is mainly where the metal has been rolled or welded

But surprisingly the taps that came with the kegs are also magnetic. So if they are chrome plated brass then whats that about?


----------



## Zorco

bradsbrew said:


> I cant accept that a product sold as 304 will hold a magnet. This is a 1.89L BK keg , holding a folded envelope, thats 4 sheets of paper and folded again, thats 8 sheets thick and still holding.
> Showed this to my BIL yesterday, in over 20 years of fabricating SS he has never seen a magnet hold on 304 SS.


We are going to send a sample to the lab and find out


----------



## nosco

peteru said:


> Computer says: No.


It works with Chrome on my PC but not on the phone app.


----------



## Grott

I use 9.5 & 12 litre keg sets. 4 Chinese 9.5l & 3 x 12l are not magnetic. 2 x 12l &
1 x 9.5l Italian kegs (meant to be the best and are Imo) are magnetic. 
I have not had any problems with any of these kegs.


----------



## nosco

nosco said:


> It works with Chrome on my PC but not on the phone app.



Ok. The video was set to private on youtube. It should work now :unsure:


----------



## Zorco

Works on the Mac. No worries


----------



## nosco

I sometimes get rust spots on my brew kettles like the ones at the end of the vid so thats maybe not a huge concern if i can get rid of them. I would'nt know what to make of the spot near the weld or the weld itself.

Would citric acid work better as a passivator(?) than starsan?


----------



## Jack of all biers

nosco said:


> Finally got it working. I have only used this keg a few times because a faulty reg so it has been cleaned with perc and stored with a starsan solution. Im the wrong person to be making any conclusions from this but I would have thought that the starsan would passivate the stainless. The rust spots at the end could maybe be fixed by re-passivating. Its hard to see the weld in the light but Ill have a go at it with some Tricleanium and starsan when I get the time. I hope the vid helps.
> ...
> Edit:the camera is a usb camera from the plumbing section at Bunnings about $35. The vid is of the inside of the top of the keg.


Not sure on your welds, as they are hard to see, but where the obvious rust is are some fairly clearly defined scratch marks from machining. Cleaning with acid and re-passivation should work on these, though you will likely need to re-passivate every now and then as crevices tend to gather corrosive substances that will eventually lead to further rust over time.

EDIT - Nosco, just saw your post at #862. Citric acid is a more economical passivator than starsan (price wise) at the right concentration and temp should wash away the contaminants so that passivation can take place. There are a few commercial SS passivation solutions that use Citric acid, so you are on solid ground and it is a lot less dangerous (for you and the waste water) than nitric/fluoric acid solutions.


----------



## Coldspace

Well I thought I would add my discoveries, good for me so far...... maybe, and this is not knocking the good work from others or the bad luck from others as I may still have ticking time bombs.....

I bough 4 x 5 ltr kegs bulk buy 2. Cleaned with percarbonate soak for 1 hour then rinsed with water. I spray light starsan only if filling and leaving full for more than a few days like nows trip for easter, for bbqs over night I usually just rinse the mini with hot water then fill.

Ive used them solid last Christmas for 3 weeks. most of the time they carried beer for 1- 2 weeks. Ive used them over past several months sporadically for local social events including leaving beer fo upto 2 weeks in them, still no issues.
watching this thread has made me anxious that ive got sus ones but at this stage I'm still happy with them.
Ive kegged up some brews filled from my primary stocks for easter camp next week, these were filled to the absolute neck, under pressure till foam leaked out of the pressure valve 6 days ago. and I tested a pot of these today to make sure I wasn't dragging crap beer away, all tasted and appeared exactly the same as the ones in my primary cornies, so I'm either one of the lucky ones or I got kegs from the Monday/Tuesday welder and not Fridays one 
pictured is my lovely crisp rice lager and my LC pale ale abit darker due to the crystal , I also had my 3 rd mini yesterday filled with my nelson sav lager which I took to a friends house last night which dispensed amongst a few and was great and the same as the mother keg at home and no one knew any diff.

I feel for you guys after watching things unfold and hope at the same time mine don't fail in the next few years as one would hope at least a decade of use with stainless or more...
I'm still following this like the rest of yous
I have not tried the rice rinse test on these and my 4 th keg is full with a stout and I'm taking these all away next week , so I hope mine don't fail soon otherwise Ill be pissed lol


my mini reg has been OK with adjustments but does leak the bulbs out fast which I'm sure is an internal leak. BTW it has no serial number so its prob a dud anyway..

Carry on the good works guys, not taking anything away from this thread , just adding my observations with my gear, maybe it was poor workmanship on some and not others?

Edit". My minis are slightly magnetic in the rolls and bottom and non magnetic that I can feel in the sides and are marked beer can.. 

Another idea, is that I got mine from bulk buy2 , but maybe mine were made at an earlier date or later than some others and all shipped at the same time????
Cheers


----------



## nosco

Maybe OT but how does TSP differ from vinegar and citric? I realise its an alkaline cleaner (it is isnt it?). My current method to passivate my SS is to use TSP and then use starsan in stead of citric. So if we are talking about removing rust with vinegar or citric how would TSP work and how would temperature affect it?


----------



## peteru

TSP is mainly a degreaser. You use it first to clean the surface before passivation with an acid based solution.


----------



## Bones99

Zorco said:


> Alrighty,
> 
> I've just knocked up a spreadsheet to track this issue, A good idea from earlier.
> 
> A five second memory dump has about 5 people which I've invited. If you have an issue with your keg regarding metal taste, darkening of your beer etc. let me know and I'll add you to the PM.
> 
> Try and fill in all the fields as it may help with tracking a bad batch.


Hi Zorco, add me into the spreadsheet too thanks


----------



## Parks

Bones99 said:


> Hi Zorco, add me into the spreadsheet too thanks


Me too please mate. Mine is from the third buy I think and I get a lovely black smear when I run my finger inside the 4L one 

My 2 iKegger growlers are also bad but I'll contact them directly.


----------



## Jack of all biers

So, I finished the metallic tasting keg tonight and rinsed it out with hot water only. Rubbed my fingers on the inside of the neck weld and smooth as a baby keg should be. Rubbed a bit further in and around the top cone part and pull my fingers out. First photo is with the flash, second without.





It looks like a greasy film and after washing my hands thoroughly with soap, the black has remained in the recesses of my finger prints. It didn't have an oil type odour nor feel oily, but sure did shine like oil. The beer had a bit of a sharp after taste that hung on the tip of the tongue, but mostly the only taste was iron/metallic exactly like when you cut your lip and taste blood.

This has got me stumped as the welds I can see and feel are smooth and clean. I can see some scratch marks on the base (similar to Nosco's video, but no rust). I will get a mirror small enough to get in the thing and have a better gander at the top welds, but I have the feeling mine is minor and probably needs a better clean job to get rid of reside crud from the various acid washes and bathes it would have gone through in the factory to clean it up.


----------



## peteru

I've done a trial "electropolishing" run experiment. I put electropolishing in quotes because I have no clue if I'm doing it right or if it is actually electropolishing or just a similar process with observable results, but here it goes.

The test vessel is a stainless steel cooking pot that was at one stage left on the stove and boiled dry on maximum heat. This caused a black oxide layer on the bottom of the the pot that could not be cleaned with vinegar, caustic soda, trisodium phosphate or an abrasive cleaner, such as Jif.

For my test, I used a 12V / 1.5A DC power supply (from an external Seagate HDD), with the positive terminal hooked up to the pot and the negative terminal connected to a stainless steel (I think) bolt. In order to judge the effectiveness of the process, I tilted the pot so that only half of the surface was subject to the process. I used white distilled vinegar with additional extra citric acid, heated to 70-80C, as the electrolyte. The surface was treated for about 15 minutes. To have a control, I subsequently rotated the pot 90 degrees and left it subjected to the heated electrolyte for about 20 minutes without any current being applied.

The results are encouraging. There is a visible reduction in the blackening of the pot where the "electropolishing" took place. The control segments with just the hot acid show no visible improvement.


----------



## malt and barley blues

Friend of mine who doesn't brew is after a couple of mini kegs, wanted to know how much, where to buy, directed him to AHB he is not a member and I warned him that some of the the last batch was rusty. He called me this morning and told me that there was mention of rusty kegs in the first buy, directed me to a post by Crunch, post 27 Mini Keg and Growler EOI. Sure enough he warned of rusty kegs, so rusting not just an isolated incident.


----------



## nosco

Did you use straight vinegar with the citric peteru?


----------



## Zorco

I still trying to coordinate a ss grade test


----------



## peteru

nosco said:


> Did you use straight vinegar with the citric peteru?


Yes. It was undiluted white vinegar. Homebrand from Woolies. It comes in 2L bottles, but I only had about 50mL to hand.


----------



## nosco

So I tried a vinegar/citric acid wash tonight with no improvement on the rust. 

I tried a short bristle bottle brush first but it was to bendy to get any pressure on it. Then I did a glass of vinegar with some sand and as you'd expect it didnt do shit. Then I heated up a bit over 1.5lt of vinegar (white vinegar from Aldi) with 2 big tbsp of citric and the rest of water to 5lt. I heated it up to 75c. The I even got a 12v power supply and did the same as peteru for 20 minutes. I could hear the tiny bubbles as soon as I turned it on. The stainless bolt came up really well.

The seam welds and spot welds seem to have come up really well but it looks like absolutly no affect on the rust. The 3 pics below are just after the sand. The last 4 are after the hot vinegar soak.


Edit: I did give it clean with TSP on Sunday too.


----------



## peteru

The current density (total current / area) plays an important part in how effective and quick the electropolishing will be. I suspect that a large electrode and several Amps will be required. Maybe a welding power supply?

Whatever you do, make sure you don't arc or short circuit the electrode against the keg. Not only will you damage the surface (by effectively spot welding), but you also run a risk of explosion. The electrolysis will create hydrogen and oxygen and a spark will ignite the mix and go pop/bang/boom. Combine that with hot acid and you get yourself into an ugly mess.


----------



## Grott

Besides warranty issues, would it be worth talking to a plating factory as to the pickling process and cost per keg, batch of kegs?


----------



## nosco

The power supply i had was only 500mA. Yeah nah, thats enough experimenting for me.


----------



## Coalminer

grott said:


> Besides warranty issues, would it be worth talking to a plating factory as to the pickling process and cost per keg, batch of kegs?


Maybe so. I was wondering the same


----------



## GoodDuck

I think not, due to the mentioned warranty issues. i.e. who becomes responsible warranty wise?


----------



## Zorco

Yeah, I'm with GoodDuck on this. We have, after all, paid a fair price for the product. 

As I've always said, Mark will support this. Should his business collapse and go bankrupt then we will need to negotiate the disaster bulk buy with electroplating options I'd reckon.

Having said any of that rubbish, it is yours - you own it. Ask Mark though, it's not like he would send it back to China. Get your warranty replacement when he approves and you may be able to explore electroplating at your own expense with the surrendered keg.


----------



## Liam_snorkel

I just want them to not make my beer taste like metal after a week. Hopefully the Beerkat fellas get on top of it since their whole business is based around them.


----------



## Liam_snorkel

especially since my first fill was from a bar and cost $70. Not keen to repeat that.


----------



## Parks

Liam_snorkel said:


> especially since my first fill was from a bar and cost $70. Not keen to repeat that.


Farrrrrrrrrrrrrk :|


----------



## Liam_snorkel

2.5 x growler price for a 6.1% beer


----------



## bradsbrew

Ouch. 
Well I can't really complain about 4L of leftovers turning to shit, can I.


----------



## Liam_snorkel

I pulled 3 pints out of it while it still tasted good, so there is that.


----------



## bradsbrew

23 bucks a pint.........may as well go to archive


----------



## wide eyed and legless

malt & barley blues said:


> Friend of mine who doesn't brew is after a couple of mini kegs, wanted to know how much, where to buy, directed him to AHB he is not a member and I warned him that some of the the last batch was rusty. He called me this morning and told me that there was mention of rusty kegs in the first buy, directed me to a post by Crunch, post 27 Mini Keg and Growler EOI. Sure enough he warned of rusty kegs, so rusting not just an isolated incident.


Cian, if your mate is still interested he can have the 2 x 4litre I ordered, $195 AUD PM me and I will pay, the delivery is taken care of.


----------



## All Things Homebrew

Zorco said:


> Yeah, I'm with GoodDuck on this. We have, after all, paid a fair price for the product.
> 
> As I've always said, Mark will support this. Should his business collapse and go bankrupt then we will need to negotiate the disaster bulk buy with electroplating options I'd reckon.
> 
> Having said any of that rubbish, it is yours - you own it. Ask Mark though, it's not like he would send it back to China. Get your warranty replacement when he approves and you may be able to explore electroplating at your own expense with the surrendered keg.


this is correct I will accept warranty claims on this issue, Im still currently in discussions with the manufacturer about the exact problems and solutions, once I have some solid answers from them I will know how to proceed. 

they are doing some tests and going to trying some new things on their products, and have sent through a lot of descriptions and pictures from this thread. will update when I hear more.


----------



## Zorco

Alrighty, perspective check again,

Of all the people aware of this thread from the set of people who have ever bought a mini keg from ATHB, ten have registered a warranty concern. Not ten people, ten kegs sorry.

Most of these are from MKII.

There are three so far from Beerkat and two are Liam's. Around the time of MKIII I remember Liam? 

The remaining warranty claims are from MKIII and they total three. 

The proportion of claims for MKIII are much higher than for MKII and timing of MKIII is similar to the Beerkat buy which have a good proportion of claims.

One hypothesis is that bad batching began around the end of MKII and into MKIII with Beerkat's supply in that window (assuming they received from China relatively soon before sending to customers)

There will be much to know from the MKIV customers.

I'd like this saga to end with a shit batch and then all good again.

Then the regulator drama over as well.

I don't think that is a rose tinted view. Happy to be challenged.


----------



## Zorco

P.s. 

That was not a rant, that was my statistics voice


----------



## malt junkie

I still haven't been able to check mine though that should happen some time next week. Both are loaded with high ABV brews; kids and work have prevented a glutenous approach to this issue. Not that I haven't been temped! Camping next week I'm sure will resolve the matter.


----------



## Grott

malt junkie said:


> I still haven't been able to check mine......Not that I haven't been temped



Go on, go on, just a sip?


----------



## bradsbrew

Zorco said:


> Alrighty, perspective check again,
> Of all the people aware of this thread from the set of people who have ever bought a mini keg from ATHB, ten have registered a warranty concern. Not ten people, ten kegs sorry.
> Most of these are from MKII.
> There are three so far from Beerkat and two are Liam's. Around the time of MKIII I remember Liam?
> The remaining warranty claims are from MKIII and they total three.
> The proportion of claims for MKIII are much higher than for MKII and timing of MKIII is similar to the Beerkat buy which have a good proportion of claims.
> One hypothesis is that bad batching began around the end of MKII and into MKIII with Beerkat's supply in that window (assuming they received from China relatively soon before sending to customers)
> There will be much to know from the MKIV customers.
> I'd like this saga to end with a shit batch and then all good again.
> Then the regulator drama over as well.
> I don't think that is a rose tinted view. Happy to be challenged.


My 5L turns beer to shit, my 1.89L has rust spots and the vessel, apart from the handle,is 100% magnetic. I have not added myself to your spreadsheet because i will deal with the retailer when and if they give a response regarding the identified issues.


----------



## bradsbrew

So your statistic approach is fairly floored.


----------



## damoninja

Zorco said:


> Alrighty, perspective check again,
> 
> I don't think that is a rose tinted view. Happy to be challenged.


Thanks for the summary mate, I've been pretty flat out so barely been able to follow the saga. 10 out of however many is really not terrible

If I get a lemon I'm not going to cry about it (not saying anyone is), with the service from Mark and the folk at BK, I'm not worried about any issues going unresolved. 

Now kegs, get in my local lostralia post contractor's van!!1!


----------



## Zorco

P.s. 

That was not a rant, that was my statistics voice


----------



## Zorco

bradsbrew said:


> So your statistic approach is fairly floored.


It wasnt stats, that was just my voice.

I was reporting from the spreadsheet and came up with a hypothesis. 

Your concerns are fairly flawed.

You haven't arranged your replacement yet. This hasn't been established as a permanent fault. 

Lastly, Why not ask now for a refund and escape the drama?


----------



## Zorco

bradsbrew said:


> My 4L turns beer to shit, my 1.89L has rust spots and the vessel, apart from the handle,is 100% magnetic. I have not added myself to your spreadsheet because i will deal with the retailer when and if they give a response regarding the identified issues.


You're in the PM now, some catch up reading for you.


----------



## Zorco

And I'm getting a bit of buy in now for the Spectro test on the metal.

We can use your magnetic keg if you like. Sounds like the worst case example - good for the test?


----------



## Zorco

wide eyed and legless said:


> Cian, if your mate is still interested he can have the 2 x 4litre I ordered, $195 AUD PM me and I will pay, the delivery is taken care of.


I wondered if you could cancel your order with ATHB before he shipped, but didn't find you on the MKIV spreadsheet. Was it with Beerkat?


----------



## bradsbrew

Zorco said:


> You haven't arranged your replacement yet. This hasn't been established as a permanent fault.
> Lastly, Why not ask now for a refund and escape the drama?


How are my concerns flawed?

I have not arranged a replacement because the retailer i purchased them from has not said to do so.
I have not asked for a refund because i feel for the retailer that had built a business on these things and have been waiting for their response ie "the wholesalers will be refunding the retailer, so put in your claim"

This is not a drama, bigger thingsin life than a crappy keg purchase. If you want to see drama, come and spend a week with me at work.

Whilst i appreciate what you are trying to do, i really don't need someone to act on my behalf on a purchase i made by myself. Call me a loner.

Cheers


----------



## Coalminer

I will post more over the weekend as I am away from computer at home this week. 6 kegs to suss out


----------



## TJP

I haven't chimed in yet but I suspect my 4L keg from MKIII(?) might be affected. To date, I haven't brewed to put anything in it, what I did do when I got it was I just gave it a wash out with some regular dishwashing liquid and though I'd use it to make some soda water, the result was a very metallic taste in the water straight away but this could have just been because it hasn't been cleaned properly, I did the rice test on it and they was a minor darkening (had to do a control to compare) what's the best method for cleaning/testing to make sure

edit, I have some tricleanium here to use that I haven't got to using yet.


----------



## Zorco

bradsbrew said:


> How are my concerns flawed?
> 
> Whilst i appreciate what you are trying to do, i really don't need someone to act on my behalf on a purchase i made by myself. Call me a loner.



I can see your perspective

The MKIV bulk buy has been on the cusp of conclusion when the first concerns were raised. It needed to be understood if it was a product fault, and to what extent; by a rational approach.

The spreadsheet collates the data and informs everyone of the quantity of the problem. That way the community has access to essential information not only for MKIV, but for any future issues.

I don't think you understand what it is I'm actually doing or why. 

Loners or not, you and everyone have access to all accounts of the issue and direct conversation with the suppliers in a collaborative forum..


I'm serving the community as part of my commitment to MKIV with everyone in mind and leaving a framework of information and data.


As soon as I can get out I intend to, which will be soon and I've enjoyed every part of the challenges.


----------



## Jack of all biers

Zorco, You're doing a good job mate. It's appreciated that future buyers can see, both the issue (whatever that is, is yet to be confirmed) and the response from the retailers, which, one would not see if all the purchasers with issues went individually and privately to the retailer. 

So far I am satisfied with the responses from both retailers, that they are looking at the problem and will deal with it when there is a solution. We cannot expect this to be done immediately, nor to be communicated with every day about it.

However, Brad is also correct that normally an individual with a faulty product would approach the retailer for a solution. Different strokes and all that.


----------



## bradsbrew

Zorco said:


> I can see your perspective
> 
> The MKIV bulk buy has been on the cusp of conclusion when the first concerns were raised.
> 
> 
> *First concerns were raised on post 27 of the initial eoi before the first bbuy.*
> 
> 
> 
> It needed to be understood if it was a product fault, and to what extent; by a rational approach.
> 
> The spreadsheet collates the data and informs everyone of the quantity of the problem. That way the community has access to essential information not only for MKIV, but for any future issues.
> 
> *Why keep the spreadsheet secret squirrel in a pm environment, it would serve the whole community to have it in an open and transparent environment.*
> 
> I don't think you understand what it is I'm actually doing or why.
> 
> *A crusade?*
> 
> Loners or not, you and everyone have access to all accounts of the issue and direct conversation with the suppliers in a collaborative forum..
> 
> 
> *Not when its all by pm? How does everyone has access?*
> 
> 
> I'm serving the community as part of my commitment to MKIV with everyone in mind and leaving a framework of information and data for all to use.
> 
> As above.
> 
> 
> As soon as I can get out I intend to, which will be soon and I've enjoyed every part of the challenges.


----------



## Zorco

The only reason, and an important one, for the PM is that with Google Sheets if you share a link with write permissions you only need to click the link to access. In the public forum that will lead to too much nuisance.


----------



## Zorco

Cheers Jack,




Jack of all biers said:


> However, Brad is also correct that normally an individual with a faulty product would approach the retailer for a solution.


Approaching the retailer with an issue has always been the intended point. The retailer can now aggregate all the concerns to better and more fully address the issue with the supplier. In fact, handling it the way we have here encourages more people to look for the problem and add their evidence.. this supports any retailer with their conversation with the suppliers - which ultimately improves the support we all receive for our problems.

I'm not sure how many people have arranged their replacement kegs yet, but it should be almost everyone by now. There isn't anything stopping that happening

Pretty basic really. 

Anyone else who thinks I'm your proxy and revelling in that, go and work with Brad for a week and he will show you what drama is. For everyone else, I'm sure you'll get the best service you can from our retailers because of the information we've shared TOGETHER.


Brad didn't say how he contacted his retailer but if he bought it from Beerkat or ATHB then he would have got a quick response. But he will work it out.


If all the metal proves to be not the spec of SS I paid for, a refund will be on my radar as should everyone else.


P.S. If you haven't organised your replacement kegs, please hurry up and do so. It will go a very long way to helping solve the issue as we will learn if it solves the issue. And there is zero risk or cost to you..... puzzling to me actually.


----------



## bradsbrew

Brad didn't say how he contacted his retailer but if he bought it from Beerkat or ATHB then he would have got a quick response. But he will work it out.

.[/quote]

Actually have said it several times that it's a BK keg (BK is short for Beerkat) Even posted on the beerkat mini keg thread.
Sorry if my way of communicating does not meet your special needs. I will try harder in the future.


----------



## EalingDrop

Someone asked about long term storage a while back....
I had some Adnams Ghost ship clone in a 4L mini keg and in bottles. Stored for 9 months. Naturally carbonated.

My observations (Mini Keg vs Bottle)

Colour: No difference
Clarity: Yes, but if you unsettle the yeast sediment, they look exactly the same.
Taste/Aroma: Yes, the bitterness of the bottled is more pronounced whilst the mini keg retained more hop aroma. A little metallic taste, like drinking warm beer out of a can level.

This might be of interest to the rust/weld issue discussed in the forum- The keg was filled close to the brim, passed the weld joint.This particular mini keg however is 3 years old bought back from the UK.

I have a Pineapple Wheat beer currently stored in the ATHB mini kegs (BB MK 2) and in some bottles as well. Will do a side by side.
I'll rest this keg on the side so the weld is submerged in beer.
Hope this helps provide further understanding of the issue we've had with the recent dodgy batch of mini kegs.

Bottle conditioned (Left), Mini Keg conditioned (Right)


----------



## gezzanet

Pls add me to the spreadsheet. The photo in post 515. The one with the black silicon tube. Thanks


----------



## bradsbrew

EalingDrop said:


> Someone asked about long term storage a while back....
> I had some Adnams Ghost ship clone in a 4L mini keg and in bottles. Stored for 9 months. Naturally carbonated.
> 
> My observations (Mini Keg vs Bottle)
> 
> Colour: No difference
> Clarity: Yes, but if you unsettle the yeast sediment, they look exactly the same.
> Taste/Aroma: Yes, the bitterness of the bottled is more pronounced whilst the mini keg retained more hop aroma. A little metallic taste, like drinking warm beer out of a can level.
> 
> This might be of interest to the rust/weld issue discussed in the forum- The keg was filled close to the brim, passed the weld joint.This particular mini keg however is 3 years old bought back from the UK.
> 
> I have a Pineapple Wheat beer currently stored in the ATHB mini kegs (BB MK 2) and in some bottles as well. Will do a side by side.
> I'll rest this keg on the side so the weld is submerged in beer.
> Hope this helps provide further understanding of the issue we've had with the recent dodgy batch of mini kegs.
> 
> Bottle conditioned (Left), Mini Keg conditioned (Right)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20170406_205123.jpg


I am wondering if the problem occurs or is more pronounced when the kegs are not full?


----------



## Zorco

gezzanet said:


> Pls add me to the spreadsheet. The photo in post 515. The one with the black silicon tube. Thanks


You've got write access from the PM gezz, go for it.


----------



## EalingDrop

bradsbrew said:


> I am wondering if the problem occurs or is more pronounced when the kegs are not full?


I happen to have a keg half filled (also naturally carbonating). Will see how it goes.


----------



## EalingDrop

Actually I do have pics of the Pineapple Wheat, it was stored in a unbranded keg I bought off gumtree (naturally carbonated for a few week)

Had to use the Keg king style regs as the Leland style regs were being replaced by ATHB (which works much better now)

Pineapple Wheat (Had nothing else to use except the Missus' plastic champagne flute :lol: ).



Keg got shaken around a bit on way down to the site. But can't say the beer was ever really in contact with the weld area for any length of time.


----------



## pyroboy

I have 2 x 5L kegs from the ATHB BB MKII. Each has had a pale ale sitting in them for over a month (was intending to take them away for Easter).

Cracked them both last night.

First keg had a pronounced black ring around the dip tube and the beer a harsh iron/metallic taste.

Second keg's beer had a slight metallic taste but no visible effects.

Emptied both and performed the peteru incantations. Rice came out dirty grey. Not as black as some here but noticeably different to another keg I used as a control.

Would you add me to the PM please Zorco?

Cheers


----------



## Zorco

Sure, do you still have the black stuff? And a strong magnet?


----------



## Zorco

A ring? Where mate? Floating on the surface of the liquid and settled around the dip tube there?

Would be good info as iron oxide is five times heavier than water. I though it would have sunk or held to the walls. 

Keen to know


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Zorco said:


> I wondered if you could cancel your order with ATHB before he shipped, but didn't find you on the MKIV spreadsheet. Was it with Beerkat?


No mate,bought mine direct (Alibaba) then cancelled when all this started going down valves rust etc. As Cian's mate now wants 2 I paid through Alibaba Trade Assurance so it is going to be interesting. But I don't think it will get to that.
Unless you are in China it takes a bit of detective work to get through the fleas (on sellers) and find the dog (manufacturers)
Another point to consider especially after reading Brad's extra magnetic one, could be the S/Steel supplier to the factory slipping in low grade stainless, though it doesn't explain the un pickled kegs.


----------



## Liam_snorkel

Zorco said:


> There are three so far from Beerkat and two are Liam's. Around the time of MKIII I remember Liam?


Purchased at the same time as the current bulk buy (feb this year) was being organised. They effectively matched the prices with free delivery.
One keg hasn't had beer in it yet, but visually has some issues that others have correlated with changes to flavour. The other keg has made beer taste metallic & undrinkable.


----------



## Coldspace

Well, I'm away camping ATM , and dragged my 4 minis down. Previously I've stated that I've had no issues. The longest mine have been filled was about 2 weeks. Tested mine last week all was ok .
Started into 1 keg last night with a rice lager, drank the whole keg , was still good till I got to last couple of schooners where it did have a slight metallic taste and had that metallic yuck sensation in the mouth. Had to tip last out. 
I've got 2 more pales to go this week and will report back.
These issues were not around at Christmas and other times I've only used for weekends , but now I'm getting concerned that I will now have to shoot into town and buy a slab lol

I'll do rice test etc when I get home in a week. Hopefully it's only one keg for me out of my 4.

zorco , can you add me to the pm list now.

I've had no issues previously but now one keg is starting to show something??

I'll monitor these other 2 I've got here that have had beer in them for 2 weeks now

All kegs were filled to absolute brim as well. 

I'll open this empty one from last night and rub a clean tissue in around it today and report back...


----------



## Zorco

I'm seeing the time domain issue as well.

What if, because of poor metal (need to do that spectro test), EVERY one of the kegs are time bombs. 

A prediction we could make is that people buying in the MKIV BB SHOULD experience these symptoms in 9 months time assuming normal use.


From what I see, the spectro test MUST be made on a unit from the MKII bulk buy, MKIII bulk buy and one from this MKIV bulk buy. That will provide valuable data and improve our predictions. Or it is still something else.


----------



## peteru

Zorco,

I'm not sure if you are placing too much faith in the spectro tests. The results may provide a lot of raw data as to the alloy composition and you'll probably find that it's substandard Chinese steel because it won't match the typical composition of "standard" steel grades. However, such data may not leave you any wiser as to what the actual issue is with the kegs. It could be that the steel composition itself is not a factor worth worrying about and the fault is with the workmanship and surface treatment. Data is good, the more the merrier, but we also need a metallurgist (or a suitably qualified person) to make sense of the results.

Not trying to discourage you from going down that path, but just wanted to point out (mainly for the benefit of others) that having the spectro tests done is not a guaranteed way of getting an answer or a resolution.


----------



## Zorco

Really, that's not what I was lead to believe. A grade / class would be a result. Didn't think a metallurgist was needed; their experts are qualified to determine the material. I don't think it is a spectro for hire joint.

I'll check into it in more detail mate. 

I don't have any faith in anything. It's not ever going to be a trait of mine. 

I'm still a big fan of the idea.


----------



## Zorco

Also, a new piece of data.

The MKIII kegs are the same as the MKII kegs. Mark pulled them from his shop stock to help us!

So, that's significant.


----------



## bradsbrew

Here is a video of my 1.89L beerkat.
https://youtu.be/zagtR0aXtZw


----------



## Zorco

I suspect the way that fridge magnet creates a magnetic field will give you that weak effect on the corners.

The handle section to the main body difference. That looks totally wrong. The video does wonders for communicating.

That has to be the right candidate for spectro.


----------



## Grott

I'm not sure if we aren't getting a bit lost. I've had the cheap Chinese kegs in 9.5 & 12 litre kegs with absolutely not problems as to what is being experienced here. 
Isn't the issue with welding areas, haven't there been discussion about pickling issues?
All I'm saying is should a " defect keg" be taken to a plating factory that deal with the pickling of weld/ weld areas of stainless for an opinion?


----------



## Mr B

I've got two 5L kegs from the MkII (?) buy.

One is fine, and the other had a metallic taste and a slightly dirty grey head.

Not sure if there was a difference in fill, they have had the beer in them for about two months. I reckon the good one is about to blow.

Only had two beers from the grey one, as I changed to the other one to check it out, and well, I'm not going back to the other one until the good one is gone.

Two months? I know, dont worry, they have been a sideline to the main kegs.

The Dubbel is particularly attractive.

Perhaps could I be added to the pm?


----------



## Liam_snorkel

I second the points raised by Grott


----------



## bradsbrew

grott said:


> All I'm saying is should a " defect keg" be taken to a plating factory that deal with the pickling of weld/ weld areas of stainless for an opinion?


I posted a few pages back that my brother in law, who has 20 odd years of experience in fabrication food grade stainless vessels, commercial kitchens etc had a look and said the 1.89L was not true 304 and that passivation/pickling process had failed and hasn't been finished properly on the 5L. Not his exact words but his general opinion was you cant taste 304.


----------



## bradsbrew

Liam_snorkel said:


> I second the points raised by Grott


Pretty sure that's what the retailers would be doing?


----------



## Liam_snorkel

One would assume.


----------



## Zorco

I grabbed my 2l keg after watching your video and mine does exactly the same, though I used a smaller and stronger magnet. It held easily to the bottom parts.

I looked at the metal thickness of the body (pressure vessel) and the handle and there is a significant thickness difference. I suspect the metals are of the same type.

Comparing to the super thick walls of my Firestone kegs, they are magnetic too, especially at the dome and near the welds. But not to the same level as the little one.


----------



## Liam_snorkel

One would assume.


----------



## Zorco

I enjoyed reading this

https://greenwoodmagnetics.com/resource/what-is-the-difference-between-304-and-316-stainless-steel/

I might guess that the fabrication process for these tiny kegs, maybe a punch or cold press, could change the magnetic properties of that metal while it remaining 304.

Based on that article I'm reconsidering Peteru's metallurgist idea.


----------



## BKBrews

Can I please be added to this PM? I have a 5L keg tank (no ball lock head - got stolen). I drank 19L of a very nice pale ale that was legged at the same time as my 5L with the same processes. Ended up tipping the 5L keg after one pot - disgusting taste and colour had changed. It all makes sense after reading a bit here.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

damoninja said:


> For the price point, a brand new 9, 10 or 12L corny would come in a lot cheaper by the time you factor in the spear etc... a more convenient size in some cases perhaps.
> 
> Though the ikegger prices are pretty inflated so I'm sure BK can do it better, then coupled with existing kit might be worth while -_- -_-


Ikegger? Now that is a brand conspicuous by its absence in the rusted kegs saga, maybe the few extra dollars spent could have saved a lot of heart ache in these purchases. Anyone had a problem with Ikegger?


----------



## damoninja

wide eyed and legless said:


> Ikegger? Now that is a brand conspicuous by its absence in the rusted kegs saga, maybe the few extra dollars spent could have saved a lot of heart ache in these purchases. Anyone had a problem with Ikegger?


Suspect they're exactly the same supplier. 

Suspect given the price point, a lot less AHBers bought them. Odds being pretty small, unlikely there's affected ones on here...


----------



## Jack of all biers

wide eyed and legless said:


> Ikegger? Now that is a brand conspicuous by its absence in the rusted kegs saga, maybe the few extra dollars spent could have saved a lot of heart ache in these purchases. Anyone had a problem with Ikegger?


Really, Why would you post that here. What's the deal mate? As I have an affected keg, bought from Beerkat, I for one think that given you haven't even purchased one, why would you post that shit here. What exactly are you trying to say?

Beerkat and other suppliers are not to blame and the innuendo of your above post is too much. These blokes may have been sold a few bad kegs that they could not have known about and you posting that shit on their thread when the problem (I may add at this stage of 4 out of all the kegs they have sold) is not even known is bullshit.

I'm calling you on it. Bullshit. 

EDIT - Admin, if you wish to edit my post out then fair enough, but this is someones business that is being slandered and competition is being advertised with out a care to these blokes business. I'm F***ing over it.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd0iiOXDdGI


----------



## Jack of all biers

bradsbrew said:


> I posted a few pages back that my brother in law, who has 20 odd years of experience in fabrication food grade stainless vessels, commercial kitchens etc had a look and said the 1.89L was not true 304 and that passivation/pickling process had failed and hasn't been finished properly on the 5L. Not his exact words but his general opinion was you cant taste 304.


Pretty much, why I can't believe that IF this is 304 that it is the steel and it is likely poor welding and clean up. Noscos scratched to s**t internals show the lack of care taken in clean up, as internal industrial SS piping would not pass that kind of roughness. It doesn't have to be shiny, but it should be smooth and not scratched and scraped to shit otherwise it will lead to rust. Funnily enough that is exactly what seems to be happening. In saying that one lot of photos on the PM scare the crap out of me as the whole internal of the keg looks like an industrial waste product was stored in there for 40 years there's that much corrosion. This makes me re-think my whole theory. This is why it will be good when the suppliers get back to the retailers, who are the poor middle men/women in this whole sorry story.

EDIT - change 'would pass' to 'would not pass'


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Just asking as they have been around for awhile has anyone had a defective keg, can't see anything wrong with that, I still want to buy a couple of kegs so just putting the feelers out. I have already bought 2 x 4 litre kegs through the Alibaba Trade Assurance Program which I have sold on but will look forward to testing the ATAP should anything go wrong.


----------



## peteru

bradsbrew said:


> I posted a few pages back that my brother in law, who has 20 odd years of experience in fabrication food grade stainless vessels, commercial kitchens etc had a look and said the 1.89L was not true 304 and that passivation/pickling process had failed and hasn't been finished properly on the 5L. Not his exact words but his general opinion was you cant taste 304.


That's pretty much my conclusion based on zero industry experience, just stuffing about with the one 5L minikeg I have and doing some Google-fu.

I agree that in the end, this is a problem for the retailer and they will need to come up with a way of rectifying the issue for customers that have a complaint. From my experience, ATHB are doing just that. I contacted Mark and have agreed to wait until he can ship me a replacement from the next imported batch. We're working on the assumption that this was purely a bad batch and that it is not a persistent problem in the product. I'm sure that a refund would also be an option for those that don't want the product.

My personality is such that I like to tinker, fix things and solve problems. That is why I am spending some effort in investigating the problem and experimenting with DIY solutions. I'd like to learn and perhaps have the satisfaction of figuring out how the issue can be rectified.

Could you perhaps do us a favour and ask your brother in law if the botched passivation/pickling/surface treatment on the 5L minikegs can be fixed? If it can be fixed, does he have any suggestions for a DIY method or an inexpensive option for getting it done professionally? I am by no means suggesting that either of those are things that anyone needs to do, it's more along the lines of satisfying my curiosity as to what we have and what can be done.


----------



## bradsbrew

Will check with him. I can't remember exactly what he said but he did metion something about the electrolysis , if that was the system they used or another pickling process (?), and acid cleaning treatment my eyes glazed over at that point as i had no idea what he was babbling on about and i had no intention of trying.


----------



## Jack of all biers

That's crap and you know it. I suspect you enjoy spinning BS. The Mini keg thread is full of your flip flop and I was being polite when others were having a dig. Given you have had nil purchase from BK and now you are putting in a random BS bit about a non-BK related competitor as 'not having problems' in the BK thread, I say you are just trying to stir shit. There are terms for the like, but I know I will get a blasting for being too honest and stating them. I am usually a very restrained person, but right now I think you are just rude and should find somewhere else to post about competitors products that you know NOTHING about.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Just to remind you I wasn't the one to bring up Ikegger, wouldn't have even thought about it until it was mentioned.


----------



## Zorco

peteru said:


> I agree that in the end, this is a problem for the retailer and they will need to come up with a way of rectifying the issue for customers that have a complaint. From my experience, ATHB are doing just that.


Amazing to me that this ever became a point that required any sort of agreement.

All the ways to rectify the issue exist.


----------



## Zorco

I imagine the issue could be common to all suppliers.

The way I read WEAL's post didn't advertise a competitor, but indirectly shon a light on Beerkat. 

Their service, care and communication has been very well regarded. Quite special by my standards.


----------



## Zorco

Jack of all biers said:


> Beerkat and other suppliers are not to blame and the innuendo of your above post is too much. These blokes may have been sold a few bad kegs that they could not have known about


It depends, the question is 'Should they have known?'

In procurement of primary plant we perform due diligence on the product during manufacturing, perform independent testing and then sign off before accepting stock.

If your whole livelyhood rested on one product, and you didn't perform some inexpensive QA then risk is magnified.

This is often seen as too harsh for residential level procurement, but at commercial and industrial levels you're almost negligent without doing your own QA.

Knowing and living this has motivated the data gathering and sharing between competitors so the whole community can get the best result.

And maybe, Beerkat ATHB and the like will form a pseudo quality group going forward.

The prisoner dilemma.


The data is pointing to them having been sold a few bad kegs. I just hope that's the case and we can all move on with our lives ASAP.


----------



## bradsbrew

https://www.assda.asn.au/technical-info/surface-finishes/pickling-and-passivation

http://www.australwright.com.au/deep-drawing-stainless-steel/


----------



## bradsbrew

I am going to grab some oxalic acid to treat my 5L. 
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Keepers_Friend


----------



## Grott

bradsbrew said:


> I am going to grab some oxalic acid to treat my 5L.
> en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Keepers_Friend


You may well be onto something here. Read the Bar Keepers Friend article and it's supposed use and effect certainly supports a possible fix. Well done in any event.


----------



## pyroboy

Zorco said:


> Sure, do you still have the black stuff? And a strong magnet?


Magnet, yes. Black stuff, no. Went down the sink on Thursday night sorry.



Zorco said:


> A ring? Where mate? Floating on the surface of the liquid and settled around the dip tube there?
> 
> Would be good info as iron oxide is five times heavier than water. I though it would have sunk or held to the walls.
> 
> Keen to know


This was the tube straight out of the keg. Not the greatest pic I know.





Here's a better one, after a rinse and compared to the other keg's tube.




Apart from the metallic taste the beer looked and tasted OK so I don't think this was from some kind of infection.

Cheers


----------



## gezzanet

Same discolouration as mine. Post 515


----------



## bradsbrew

Ok. So i went and bought an inspection camera. These are from the 5L. Rust sopts on the vertical weld seam where it meets the bottom.

And some weird arse pitting or something on the base .


----------



## Kingy

Nice camera how much are they?
My beers taste good out of my kegs. 
It's probly better if I don't look inside tho. 
But safer if I do. I could think of many uses for that little thing.


----------



## bradsbrew

Supercheap had them on special for 98 bucks. Only bought because i had 96 bucks in store credit, so it cost 2 bucks. Plenty of uses here too.


----------



## Grott

Did you get some oxalic acid?


----------



## bradsbrew

grott said:


> Did you get some oxalic acid?


Yes had some in the shed. Only made a weak solution but let it soak for around 4 hours then rinsed. It is still wet but the rust spots are gone and ot seems that theweird pitting is reduced but i will have another look when it is completely dry. From what i have read it takes a week or so for the chromium oxide layer to form after oxalic? The video shows the weld , looks dodgy but i have no idea how it should look.
https://youtu.be/Kx9_g1kf2dA


----------



## Zorco

What if you filled the keg with oxygen? Would it accelerate the passivation?

Actually, feels unsafe... not a suggestion at all until someone who knows more informs


----------



## [email protected]

wide eyed and legless said:


> Ikegger? Now that is a brand conspicuous by its absence in the rusted kegs saga, maybe the few extra dollars spent could have saved a lot of heart ache in these purchases. Anyone had a problem with Ikegger?


We use the same supplier. As advised previously and communicated directly with each customer affected, we are working to find a solution with our supplier. Overall we have had a minimal number of kegs showing this issue from the same batch and we hope to have a solution asap. We appreciate the support of AHB.


----------



## Jack of all biers

Keg 2 of 2 had 4L of beer tipped. Metallic taste developed after 3 weeks (first keg after 2). After rinsing out with water only, I dipped my finger in and black film from the top cone part (not the neck weld, which was smooth). The photos weren't very representative of the black I could see, so I put a tissue in and rubbed around the inside of the top surface of the keg. Photos below. I haven't gotten around to getting an inspection mirror, but with the help of a torch I managed to get a glimpse of at least two of the spot welds internally near the top and they were black little circles. These are the spot welds holding the handle on, which I predicted might be a problem given the outside had heat markings on them (some pages ago while the beer was still conditioning). So I did the rice test and you can see the results below. Both kegs are the same. I'd say that in my case at least, the kegs were made, cleaned and pickled well, as the other welds I can see are reasonably good. Then the handles were put on and the clean up was not done on the inside and the pickling was not thorough or not done at all.

I'm not sure if a Oxalic acid, Citric acid or Acetic acid soak will get rid of all the black weld marks and leave them shiny, but I'll email Beerkat to seek permission to give it a try when I'm back from a work trip mid-week. Brad, did your Oxalic acid soaked kegs clean up all the black marks?


----------



## bradsbrew

Jack of all biers said:


> Brad, did your Oxalic acid soaked kegs clean up all the black marks?


Early indication is that yes it has, also has reduced the pitting. Will leave it a few more days and sacrifice another 5L of beer.


----------



## peekaboo_jones

pyroboy said:


> Magnet, yes. Black stuff, no. Went down the sink on Thursday night sorry.
> 
> 
> This was the tube straight out of the keg. Not the greatest pic I know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_6776 2.jpeg
> 
> Here's a better one, after a rinse and compared to the other keg's tube.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_6837.jpeg
> 
> Apart from the metallic taste the beer looked and tasted OK so I don't think this was from some kind of infection.
> 
> Cheers


My dip tubes have the same discoloration. Slight metallic taste...
No black residue in neck. Rice test is clean.


----------



## mstrelan

So how much Bar Keeper's Friend do you add you how much water, and how long do you leave it to soak?


----------



## bradsbrew

mstrelan said:


> So how much Bar Keeper's Friend do you add you how much water, and how long do you leave it to soak?


I used oxalic acid crystals, did not weigh it but would have been around 150g as that was all that was left in the container in the shed. I just 1/3 filled the 5L keg with cold water, added the crystals then added a kettle full of boiling water and topped up the keg to full with warm water and let it sit for around 4 hours. I also gave the outside of the top a clean with the solution using a chux cloth and the greasy film on the outside of the keg is gone.
After the 5L was done , I transfered the solution to the 2L keg and a saucepan, then sat the 2L keg in the saucepan, once again it cleaned the greasy film from the outside but it also faded the beerkat logo significantly.

Although I didn't, I would check with your supplier before to make sure you are still covered by warranty if doing this.


----------



## Jack of all biers

bradsbrew said:


> Altho<script id="gpt-impl-0.3277749971020967" src="https://securepubads.g.doubleclick.net/gpt/pubads_impl_113.js"></script>ugh I didn't, I would check with your supplier before to make sure you are still covered by warranty if doing this.


+1 to brass advice re checking with your retailer. Don't forget that any treatments we do might give the suppliers or manufacturers grounds to refuse the retailers claims, therefore making the customers claims difficult (ie wait for formal written advice about any treatments to the kegs if you are contemplating seeking replacementor refund). It will just make life easier for you and the retailers if the evidence of defect is there to display to the onward supplier.


----------



## Batz

So this stuff is oxalic acid crystals.


----------



## bradsbrew

Batz said:


> So this stuff is oxalic acid crystals.


Yes. But this is the one I had in the shed. http://www.floodaustralia.net/products/diy_paints/handycan-oxalic_acid.php 

Here is the MSDS for the recochem / diggers product that Batz has mentioned.- 100% oxalic acid. https://2ecffd01e1ab3e9383f0-07db7b9624bbdf022e3b5395236d5cf8.ssl.cf4.rackcdn.com/Product/1cee8eaf-1218-4b5a-9e56-4cd4aea11f60.pdf


----------



## bradsbrew

Ok. This where i am at. 

The 5L and the 2L still have the black stuff. The 5L way less than the 2L.
Simple method of dry wipe with paper towel, wipe with metho on towel then dry wipe with towel after. To give me an idea of what it should look like i wiped used the metho wet towel on one of my mytton rod kegs and that keg had no residue at all.
Here is the results.

2L



5L



Old 23L mytton rod




I am not sure what next?


----------



## Grott

grott said:


> All I'm saying is should a " defect keg" be taken to a plating factory that deal with the pickling of weld/ weld areas of stainless for an opinion?


bradsbrew has made a valiant attempt like others to try and fix this problem. As above and mentioned and agreed by others has this been activated on?


----------



## Batz

I have 5 of these kegs, currently brewing a clean lager that will go into all 5 (besides a corney as a test).

Really do hope to have no off flavours after 4-5 weeks, as this was the reason for buying these kegs. Going away for work, going away in the caravan, if they don't do that for me I don't want them.


----------



## bradsbrew

Yeah i am pretty disappointed with the outcome. Being an optimist, i really wanted to find a pony under the pile of horse shit.
I won't be putting anymore beer in these ones, who knows what the health effects are. Hopefully i just got a bad batch, the concept is great.


----------



## Zorco

The vast majority of people in the spreadsheet elected for the DIY. 

Brad's work is the first proper attempt at a solution in this vein. 

Thankfully the bad batch scenario is holding up at this stage. It could collapse, but I certainly hope not.


----------



## Coldspace

Not looking good on my minis
First keg at camping with rice lager last few days had a metallic twang
Second keg me and a mate cracked open tonite while away , has an Aussie lager in it
Undrinkable, twangy and metallic taste all through it...
So bad, we ended up going to pub to buy a carton ,
Got a third mini down here with a pale ale , we are chilling tonight and will try tomorrow 
These beers have been in kegs going on 3 weeks, never had an issue for weekend use but for my camping trips these are no good
I brought my rice lager camping in my 9 ltr Cornelius Italian keg as well , we drank the whole thing last night, beautiful beer , beer out of mini tonight ,crap ...which annoys me as I own 4.

Health reasons also concerns me, I'll be contacting the retailer next week when we get back for Advice
Will be reporting back over coming days when we try my 3 rd mini with the pale ale but not looking promising 
Cheers


----------



## Jack of all biers

grott said:


> bradsbrew has made a valiant attempt like others to try and fix this problem. As above and mentioned and agreed by others has this been activated on?


Do you know of any in the south of Adelaide Grott?


----------



## nic0

I have 4 5Lt from the second bulk buy. I will have a look this weekend. When they were used at xmas my wife compained about a metallic taste in her ginger beer. I drained my kegs fairly quick and they were upright the whole time and the beer seemed ok. She took alot long to get through hers and hers were laid flat in the fridge so the ginger beer would of had lots of contact with the welds.


----------



## Grott

Jack of all biers said:


> Do you know of any in the south of Adelaide Grott?


Korvest is probably the biggest company (but not in the south) and I believe offer technical advice. A Class Metal Finishers at Lonsdale has a good reputation and specialise in restoration work. They pickle etc.
Hopes this helps


----------



## Coldspace

Ok, cracked into my LC pale ale tonight , been in mini for 3 weeks. Metallic taste , yuck tipped straight away. Had to run into town and grab a slab of cricketers arms pale ale which was the best priced pale at the bottleshop. Buying slabs hurts when got heaps at home but these minis have kept me poor over our camp trip lol

3 minis, no good beer

Cheers


----------



## Zorco

Bummer...Thanks for the update mate.


----------



## Yob

Havnt had a chance to check any of mine yet, RIS in one still tastes good but how the hell you'd pick it in there is beyond me..

Zman, please add me to the pm so I can keep over issues


----------



## Coldspace

Cricketers arms is not a bad drop btw

Anyway , yeah a Ris would mask it abit

My Aussie lager and rice lager were the worst but these are crisp light flavoured anyway 
My LC pale ale we tried tonight is closer to a IPA was ok first sip but then the metallic taste showed its ugly head
It's a very hopped brew and been one of my staples on tap at home it's been one of my favourites including mates
My close mate and his wife who are way with us this week has had many before and picked it up sarvo when we poured 2 glasses
I think this keg must be the worst out of my lot, because my first mini was metallic but slightly with a rice style lager , we managed to drink it first night away but its last few glasses had to be tipped.
Second mini had a Aussie lager which made you spray it out after first glass, undrinkable
9 ltr Italian keg, same rice lager as mini as they were both pressure filled from my kegmenter, was awesome , mini version not so
Third mini today , yuk , spewing as we all felt like a few tonight of this fine ale

Anyway , I'll be home this weekend , will do rice tests etc and contact retailer

Cheers


----------



## mattyg8

I havent had a chance to test mine out. Zorco can you please add me to PM as I was in the BB in august


----------



## peekaboo_jones

I've just filled 2x5L mini kegs from bulk buy MKIII, so I will update once carbed.
One is a Belgian Wit other is American Amber ale.
Both naturally carbing.


----------



## damoninja

Yob said:


> Havnt had a chance to check any of mine yet, RIS in one still tastes good but how the hell you'd pick it in there is beyond me..


Yob's fix: fill with RIS,


----------



## wide eyed and legless

mtb, on 07 Apr 2017 - 3:13 PM, said:




mtb said:


> On a different tangent Beerkat - are you guys looking to stock the 10L "mini" kegs like those sold here? Faults aside (and maybe after all this is sorted out) I reckon a fair few people would get on board, seeing as they would assumedly take the same fittings as their smaller counterparts.


Hey MTB we are looking at stocking the 10L, we tried to get them in last year but they weren't manufacturing them yet. They do take the same fittings. We'll keep you posted! 
wide eyed and legless, on 07 Apr 2017 - 10:59 PM, said:





wide eyed and legless said:


> Ikegger? Now that is a brand conspicuous by its absence in the rusted kegs saga, maybe the few extra dollars spent could have saved a lot of heart ache in these purchases. Anyone had a problem with Ikegger?


We use the same supplier. As advised previously and communicated directly with each customer affected, we are working to find a solution with our supplier. Overall we have had a minimal number of kegs showing this issue from the same batch and we hope to have a solution asap. We appreciate the support of AHB.

Trying to get my head around why if you are using the same supplier as Ikegger, and Ikegger is already selling the 10 litre, why would that same supplier tell you they are not manufacturing them yet?
For me that would be the second reason I would be getting on a flight to China, the first being to sort out the poor quality with the manufacturer, to be able to sell a product or service, you MUST have confidence that the product is sound. The first report of a problem keg would have dented my confidence, the second would be causing me great concern, the rusty kegs coming out of China has been reported from18 months ago so it is nothing new.
I discounted the idea it was because you are a new business just starting, and whether they are trying it on, but I would definitely be sorting it all out over in China, even think about getting an agent.


----------



## [email protected]

wide eyed and legless said:


> mtb, on 07 Apr 2017 - 3:13 PM, said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey MTB we are looking at stocking the 10L, we tried to get them in last year but they weren't manufacturing them yet. They do take the same fittings. We'll keep you posted!
> wide eyed and legless, on 07 Apr 2017 - 10:59 PM, said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We use the same supplier. As advised previously and communicated directly with each customer affected, we are working to find a solution with our supplier. Overall we have had a minimal number of kegs showing this issue from the same batch and we hope to have a solution asap. We appreciate the support of AHB.
> 
> Trying to get my head around why if you are using the same supplier as Ikegger, and Ikegger is already selling the 10 litre, why would that same supplier tell you they are not manufacturing them yet?
> For me that would be the second reason I would be getting on a flight to China, the first being to sort out the poor quality with the manufacturer, to be able to sell a product or service, you MUST have confidence that the product is sound. The first report of a problem keg would have dented my confidence, the second would be causing me great concern, the rusty kegs coming out of China has been reported from18 months ago so it is nothing new.
> I discounted the idea it was because you are a new business just starting, and whether they are trying it on, but I would definitely be sorting it all out over in China, even think about getting an agent.


WEAL you seem to be rather invested in our business which seems questionable...in any case, just so you can get you're head around it, last year we enquired with our manufacturer about the option of making 10L kegs, at the time they were unable to however they are now manufacturing them and have been available from the beginning of this year. Stocking them is purely a commercial decision for our company as we haven't had as much interest or enquiries for larger kegs or the 10L. Any quality issues in any business is a concern. As already advised we are working directly with our supplier and manufacturer regarding the small batch that have experienced issues and working closely with the customers affected as are the other retailers affected.


----------



## Liam_snorkel

Wide Mouthed & Legless, more like it.


----------



## Zorco

It certainly is looking like a batch problem. The spreadsheet has not grown that much and of the people added to the PM, less than a half have made an entry.

Really looking forward to the MKIV deliveries this week and next.

That, coupled with the regulator issues, would make me say our suppliers are worth supporting in any and all cases. They have only done the same for us.

And that's what all of this is about.


----------



## Jack of all biers

+1 to zorco. I personally have had nothing but great communication from beerkat both on ahb and personally re this issue and prior to fault detection. They have bent over backwards to accommodate customer requests for non stocked items. I don't think they can be knocked in that department


----------



## SBOB

sent [email protected] an email asking what the go is with regards to my dodgy 2L

Havent received a response though (likely busy with bulk buy).. So not sure what the ATHB solution or supplier feedback is yet though


----------



## Batz

Jack of all biers said:


> +1 to zorco. I personally have had nothing but great communication from beerkat both on ahb and personally re this issue and prior to fault detection. They have bent over backwards to accommodate customer requests for non stocked items. I don't think they can be knocked in that department


Agree 100%, both Beerkat and ATHB have been fantastic through all this.

Still to give my kegs the test of time (with a brew in them for at least 1 month)


----------



## Digga

Zorco said:


> It certainly is looking like a batch problem. The spreadsheet has not grown that much and of the people added to the PM, less than a half have made an entry.


I think that alot of the possibly effected buyers (including myself) have not yet rice tested theirs and don't know if they are in the boat yet.

I'll do mine on the weekend and see if there is another on the list.


----------



## Zorco

True, though the main hypothesis is that the black product is iron oxide or potentially another oxide which we are very sensitive to.

I would imagine tasting is the first clue.

But the more people aware and looking the better


----------



## Liam_snorkel

Digga said:


> I think that alot of the possibly effected buyers (including myself) have not yet rice tested theirs and don't know if they are in the boat yet.
> 
> I'll do mine on the weekend and see if there is another on the list.


I did not notice discoloration with the rice test but definitely metallic taste to beer and dark looking spot welds etc. So yeah don't get too excited if you do that. 
I think people who haven't yet filled theirs with beer would be right to be hesitant.


----------



## Yob

for the sake of QC, I had to go check on the Imperial Cider ive got in a 5lt... seems fine but Im gunna have another to be sure..

testing continues


----------



## Zorco

Liam_snorkel said:


> I think people who haven't yet filled theirs with beer would be right to be hesitant.


Hesitant should be the opposite of what people feel.

Rooting out the problem and enjoying the support from the retailers is ahead of everyone.

If anyone has a problem let me know and I'll add you to the PM where you can register your problem (Beerkat or ATHB) and most importantly, upload your evidence onto the google drive... the suppliers have direct access to it all for their conversations with their suppliers.

Don't hesitate, and be aware of the statistics. Of the hundred or so (I forget MKI numbers) kegs sold, about 10 have been registered as having a problem. All from the MKII/MKIII buys (same order from China). Zero so far from MKI...... so far. 

This too shall pass

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qybUFnY7Y8w


----------



## nosco

I took mine in to G&G today. We tested out my reg and it worked perfectly. Would you expect 1 bulb to run out in about 5 minutes on an empty 5lt keg? I showed the guy the pictures of the rust and explained some of the other issues that people are having on here but I didnt get much response. I was mostly talking about the reg though. Maybe I spoke to the wrong person but he said they have never heard of any issues with the regs or the kegs. Perhaps they dont sell that many? I dont think G&G do have a rep on here that I know of Zorco.

I just filled it with about 4lt of crystal clear Bo Pils to take away with us tomorrow. Ill drink some over the next few days and leave about a liter in there and see what happens. If it does go bad I can take it in and they wont be able to argue with that. If it doesnt go bad then I all good and Ill continue to use it.


----------



## nosco

Digga said:


> I think that alot of the possibly effected buyers (including myself) have not yet rice tested theirs and don't know if they are in the boat yet.
> 
> I'll do mine on the weekend and see if there is another on the list.


I did the rice test before I cleaned it with vinegar and citric. I wasn't really dark but it did have a noticeable gray tinge to it. I gave it the finger test after I cleaned with Bar Kepper and my finger was clean. I gave it another wipe with metho this morning and did get a tiny bit of gray.


----------



## GoodDuck

I am finally in a position to test my remaining kegs.
Apart from my undeniably sub-par 2L, I have filled my other 2 x 2Ls, (one with a Pale Ale, the other with an IIPA).
I also have 2 x 5L in which I have sacrificed about 1L of pale ale to each.
Now to give them the "test of time". About 4 weeks should do it. (Sigh)

I am also suspicious of a min-reg from the MkII BB - the pressure seems to ramp up slowly, not easy to control.


----------



## Liam_snorkel

I have a question about these regulators. 
If you have a bulb hooked up, reg set to zero, but no disconnect attached to the reg, should it behave just like a full size regulator and allow gas to hiss out when the dial is turned up? Or do they have some kind of fail-safe that stops gas from escaping too quickly & freezing the bulb? Ie does it require some backpressure. 

Because ive noticed that whenever I hook them up to a half filled depressurised keg, the regulator doesn't send any gas in, meaning it won't pour beer.


----------



## Zorco

They should hiss to the point it spits out chunks of solid CO2


----------



## Liam_snorkel

sounds like my regulators are fucked too.


----------



## Zorco

All mine don't do that, the new ones I tested for a few guys sure did. They had serial numbers on the base and were consistently reliable. I think two or three bulbs went through them all great. 

But mine, nor anyone's, need to do that. 

When all the dust settles and Mark has had time to scratch his arse, I'll ask him about it.

I'm still wondering if Batz has been able to dismantle one.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Beerkat Pty Ltd said:


> WEAL you seem to be rather invested in our business .....


On the contrary, someone could be excused for seeing the Bulk Buys 1 and 2 take off and see a business opportunity, start up a business hoping to cash in. I do sincerely hope that there will not be a problem with replacement kegs and that all the customers who made a purchase end up happy, and you can continue in your business.


----------



## Zorco

+1to that. And we are certainly not there at the moment.


----------



## Liam_snorkel

Never mind, I have diagnosed the issue. Had a blockage in one of the nuts.


----------



## Zorco

Quote fest hey. Let's get to 52 ASAP!


----------



## Zorco

Have a read through the Regulator problems thread. I posted videos of testing, showing my old ones and the new ones. I don't think I videoed the good ones cranked up to 11, but the point is clear enough.

The regulators problem (as I understand from Mark) is a known one and well supported


----------



## Zorco

Liam_snorkel said:


> Never mind, I have diagnosed the issue. Had a blockage in one of the nuts.


OK cool, good luck with the forthcoming pregnancy


----------



## nosco

Theres a mini reg thread?


----------



## Zorco

nosco said:


> Theres a mini reg thread?


http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/94448-problem-discussion-thread-mini-keg-regulators/


----------



## Liam_snorkel

Liam_snorkel said:


> Never mind, I have diagnosed the issue. Had a blockage in one of the nuts.





Zorco said:


> OK cool, good luck with the forthcoming pregnancy


False alarm. It is actually faulty.


----------



## Zorco

That makes more sense... [emoji14]


----------



## Liam_snorkel

Yep.


----------



## Zorco

Did your bad reg have a bronze ish coloured serial number on the lowest layer of the body?


----------



## Yob

to be fair, my reg from the first BB is also a little weird, sits on 5 PSI not connected to a bulb but seems to dispense OK so Ive not worried about mentioning it...

mini regs in general seem to be tempromental, all the ones Ive had, about 4 different types, have been pricks of things.. this ones the best of the bunch by far though, it still works


----------



## Liam_snorkel

Zorco said:


> Did your bad reg have a bronze ish coloured serial number on the lowest layer of the body?


No serial number


----------



## Coldspace

Ok, just got home from camping and rinsed out my 3 minis that I've had issues with my beers while away. I've filled them up with tap water and added 3 spoons of percarb to each for an overnight soak as done in the past.

I got my 4th mini out of shed and borrowed a friends inspection camera and the images are similar to bradsbrew. Spot weld where handles are each with say 1-2 mm rust spot at each weld. I wiped my finger around the inside and didn't get any black stuff from this keg but will get some rice tommoz and do rice test on all 4 kegs. Will also run the camera around the inside of these kegs when I empty them tommoz.

I'm then thinking of buying some diggers crystals the same as Batz put up and doing what brad did and soak them with it, then rinse well with really hot water and leave to air dry for a day, then maybe fill 2 of the worst metallic ones I've had and try them in a couple of weeks. Hopefully not to waste another carton equilivant of beer.

Prob all we can do ATM and see how time goes. 

No idea on all this metal chemistry but is this aoxcylic crystals etc supposed to clean the rust off and then prevent further rust with the term passivation? That's been mentioned.

If this works then I'd be happy, if not then I'll be chasing a refund/exchange ,I will be calling ATHB to see what they say tomm before going down this pathway.

Any others have more ideas or any of the retailers following this thread have any reports back from the manufacturers?

Cheers


----------



## Pistolpete01

I ordered two 5L kegs from Beerkat on back order in mid March. I recieved them last Tuesday and washed with warm water and dishwashing liquid followed by a Starsan rinse. Filled one from a 19l keg of mid strength ale on Wednesday to have a little play. Reg seems good and beer was fine Wednesday night, by Friday it had developed a slight metallic taste and by tonight it was completely undrinkable. 

I will tip the rest of the keg tonight and give it a proper soak in sodium perc and refill when I get back from work on Friday.

Please ad me to the PM with the spreadsheet.

Cheers,
Pete


----------



## [email protected]

Hey Gentlemen,

Just a quick update regarding Metalic taste in kegs.

I have organised XRF materials recognition testing for random stock kegs across our range, I have also requested a couple of tainted kegs back for destructive testing.

XRF reading will determine the exact materials being used in the manufacture of the kegs, once we are confident in our materials this should help us determine a way forward with Passivation or Electro cleaning the kegs. I have sourced a Perth based company who we will work closely with to identify whats happening with the metallic taste coming from this batch of kegs. 

Basic discussion are pointing to potential passivation or electro cleaning issues. I will be getting a couple of kegs from the March batch re passivated and electropolished. I will then conduct a test on all three kegs, as packed, passivated and electropolished. 

I hope to have some results to show early next week. 

I have been away working for a couple of week. During this period, I have had a saison and American IPA sitting in a range of kegs and growlers. These have been kegged now for several weeks. I poured sample glasses from all of these kegs over the weekend and found none of the detailed issues. These kegs I have been using for several months now and have not seen this problem here. We are s
till on the side of batch issue from supplier.

I will transfer a 5 ltr batch to current stock keg and sample over the next week to see if I can get the metallic results.

Our Chinese supplier has sent a test keg for review.

We hope this helps, we will overcome this frustrating problem to help ensure we all have an awesome robust legging system.

We appreciate everyone's patents and hope to have a resolution soon.

Cheers 

Graham Boyd


----------



## Zorco

exemplary


----------



## nosco

Zorco said:


> exemplary


Indeed.


----------



## Coldspace

Great info, I'll hold off on doing anything more than my perc rinse...

Cheers


----------



## Liam_snorkel

Keen for these robust leggings


----------



## Yob

Beerkat Pty Ltd said:


> Cheers


My man..

anecdotal,

I emptied my 4lt ones, one of them smelled a bit weird... then I realized it had my 'suspicious stout' in it.. no feedback other that it didnt taste any weirder that the fucked up shit I put in it...

neither of them displayed any issues, I'm tryin really hard to finish my Imperial Cider and the RIS from my other 'in use mini's' so I can see if anything is amiss.. got help me though, they are both half full... but I havnt noticed any ill...

I'll keep pushing at it though... for the team..


----------



## [email protected]

Liam_snorkel said:


> Keen for these robust leggings


Yeah mate i've also put my order in for some robust leggings :blink:


----------



## [email protected]

Extract:

The good news is they all match 304 18/8 stainless steel. I was concerned with some of the magnetic ones so payed additional attention to those. The results make me feel a little more comfortable now. I will attach some photos of the scan results of 3 kegs and a growler. All other unassociated products checked out well, so happy with these results.

Using a WiFi HD720p Endoscope camera, Ive looked at the weld quality inside several kegs and growlers, these all check out really well, the welds look clean, the spots you see are from toe handle spot welds these are normal weld marks no cause for concern with these.


----------



## Liam_snorkel

the welds and seam look different to mine. The spot welds on mine are black in the centre of the brown circle, and the seam weld has blue/brown colour along each side.

View attachment 96739
View attachment 96740
View attachment 96741


----------



## damoninja

Rather than a complete repost, here's my setup 

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/94050-mini-keg-esky-build/?p=1450089


----------



## Liam_snorkel

Pics. Best I could do with phone camera


----------



## mstrelan

^ That's what mine looks like.


----------



## Batz

damoninja said:


> Rather than a complete repost, here's my setup
> 
> http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/94050-mini-keg-esky-build/?p=1450089


Did you recently buy that esky? and if so where and what brand is it? Really like that set up and would love to do something similar.

Batz


Edit: K-Mart esky? Saw it on the other post.


----------



## peteru

Yeah, the vertical weld on mine is similar to Liam_snorkel, only probably a bit worse.


----------



## Coalminer

My 6 kegs have those same spot weld marks where the handles are attached
BUT then again those same dark spots are in all 4 of my Aginox oil drum fermenters where the handles are attached and they don't give me any trouble


----------



## damoninja

Mine have fairly similar looking welds too, I did spot a couple of dents on the inside of the metal but hard to tell if there's an issue at the moment. Few other minor spots too but my cornies get these too. 

90 minutes in hot perc solution, it lightly bubbled the WHOLE time but the solution came out of the kegs as clear as it went in.


----------



## brianman

damoninja said:


> Mine have fairly similar looking welds too, I did spot a couple of dents on the inside of the metal but hard to tell if there's an issue at the moment. Few other minor spots too but my cornies get these too.
> 
> 90 minutes in hot perc solution, it lightly bubbled the WHOLE time but the solution came out of the kegs as clear as it went in.


I don't have any emptys at the moment, have had the rust/metallic odour/flavor and used EDTA, within 1/2hr the odd flavour has gone and the beer is ok. Will have to see if the EDTA treated kegs stay clear, in any case have an EDTA solution ready for rinsing any suspect or all kegs.


----------



## Batz

I don't believe the dark spots will do any harm, my first 3v system had these. I think you will find it is more from the heat generated during welding.
My kettle had a large dark mark around the welded nipples, I did use pickling paste on these and never had any rust develop. I bet my MLT and kettle are still going strong without issues.


----------



## damoninja

Batz said:


> Did you recently buy that esky? and if so where and what brand is it? Really like that set up and would love to do something similar.
> 
> Batz
> 
> 
> Edit: K-Mart esky? Saw it on the other post.


Yeah Kmart, was on clearance at the time but worth giving it a look if they still have any. Being kmart it'd be some generic thing so some other store might have taken up the line. 

With the steel disconnects there's more head space than I'd planned for, also a little more free space in general than I'd expected, the height is really the main constraint here... 

I did figure though if you can't get one both as high and compact as this you could actually just use these heads instead of the double ball lock, not quite as versatile but ultimately and might have some other challenges but reckon it'd be a suitable outcome. 

Other thing being the gas bottle, height on that was my biggest challenge.


----------



## Liam_snorkel

Batz said:


> I don't believe the dark spots will do any harm, my first 3v system had these. I think you will find it is more from the heat generated during welding.
> My kettle had a large dark mark around the welded nipples, I did use pickling paste on these and never had any rust develop. I bet my MLT and kettle are still going strong without issues.


the off flavours develop after 1-2 weeks contact time. Do you mash for over a week?

If it is purely due to heat, why do some appear black, and some not, when they're made in the same production facility from the same materials?


----------



## Danscraftbeer

Forgive me if this has been mentioned somewere in the 53 pages. I'd expect it has been thought of.

To use the regulator you get with the mini keg combo as a spunding valve? For pressure fermenting.
Obviously with no co2 bulb fitted it works that way and probably a lot better than the standard KK version that can be a bit fiddly and undependable for accuracy etc.
Of course you cant risk any blow off krausen going through. I will be using a mini keg as the collecting chamber for high krausen yeast with a spunding valve for pressure fermenting and playing with my new bewt mini kegs it just dawned on me.

Or is it just a bad idea? to allow co2 produced from fermenting to go backwards through this regulator? As in beer residue collecting in the regulator? Then again Its basically the same price as the KK version anyhow......What say you?


----------



## peteru

I wouldn't expect a regulator hooked up back to front to work properly.


----------



## Danscraftbeer

I didn't either but I'm testing the experiment right now.
*Obviously you void your warranty if you stuff up and ruin your regulator. * 

The only reason I got the idea is I was assembling 3 of them and had parts over the table etc. Connected the (reg with no co2 bulb) to a pressurized mini keg. I heard the hissing and then turned down the reg, stops releasing. Turn up the reg and releases again etc.
But it is backwards. I don't think it works for accuracy. Obviously the valve is only designed to work one direction etc, -_- 
Forget about this idea folks.
Don't do it.


----------



## [email protected]

Danscraftbeer said:


> Forgive me if this has been mentioned somewere in the 53 pages. I'd expect it has been thought of.
> 
> To use the regulator you get with the mini keg combo as a spunding valve? For pressure fermenting.
> Obviously with no co2 bulb fitted it works that way and probably a lot better than the standard KK version that can be a bit fiddly and undependable for accuracy etc.
> Of course you cant risk any blow off krausen going through. I will be using a mini keg as the collecting chamber for high krausen yeast with a spunding valve for pressure fermenting and playing with my new bewt mini kegs it just dawned on me.
> 
> Or is it just a bad idea? to allow co2 produced from fermenting to go backwards through this regulator? As in beer residue collecting in the regulator? Then again Its basically the same price as the KK version anyhow......What say you?



You'd really want to avoid any residue back through the regulator that would void warranty, I will try get you a photo of Fat-fish Brewing spunding valve, pretty cool.


----------



## Nullnvoid

Silly question but what is this piece for? Was in with the regulator box.


----------



## Danscraftbeer

Its a spare.

:unsure:

It fits in the bottom of the regulator were you screw in the bulb. Not sure why yet I have disgraced myself and not read the instructions back to front yuno totally over confident. 

Its a spare.


----------



## LiquidGold

Pretty sure its an adapter for a different size bulb


----------



## Jack of all biers

It's an adapter for the soda stream adapter.


----------



## Nullnvoid

Jack of all biers said:


> It's an adapter for the soda stream adapter.


An adapter for an adapter? I got the beer at soda stream adapter so it fits onto that? I could get it out to see but it's easier to ask here. Hahaha


----------



## Danscraftbeer

Its a bonus on a bonus! :beerbang:


----------



## Jack of all biers

It should also fit paint ball co2 canisters. Can't remember their size again, but supposed to anyway


----------



## [email protected]

Nullnvoid said:


> Silly question but what is this piece for? Was in with the regulator box.
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1492772455.550858.jpg


Thats an inlet adaptor to fit 74g C02 - Normally airgun cylinders.
We have soda stream adaptors that fit the inlet adaptor so you can use SS gas 


Hahaha - thanks guys didn't realise you had all replied.


----------



## [email protected]

Danscraftbeer said:


> Its a spare.
> 
> :unsure:
> 
> It fits in the bottom of the regulator were you screw in the bulb. Not sure why yet I have disgraced myself and not read the instructions back to front yuno totally over confident.
> 
> Its a spare.


Instructions ha! thats why they are at the top of the box, so they go in the bin first. :beerbang: :super:


----------



## Danscraftbeer

I'll keep one of the manuals. Its like a compulsive disorder I think.


----------



## damoninja

Nullnvoid said:


> Silly question but what is this piece for? Was in with the regulator box.


Like BK said it's for a paintball cylinder, I think it;s a great idea, this mini reg is one of the most versatile I've seen


----------



## goatchop41

damoninja said:


> Like BK said it's for a paintball cylinder, I think it;s a great idea, this mini reg is one of the most versatile I've seen


As they also said, the sodastream adaptor fits in to it as well. I was confused as hell about how on earth the SS adaptor was supposed to fit on the reg until I remembered about this piece (got my mini reg a good bit before this bulk buy, so forgot about my spare bits and pieces)


----------



## Bones99

Beerkat Pty Ltd said:


> We have soda stream adaptors that fit the inlet adaptor so you can use SS gas


I was playing with my mini reg this morning and came to the conclusion I needed an adaptor to fit a SS bottle, so thank you for answering my first question.

Can you please link to your adaptor for ease of ordering?

Cheers,
Bones


----------



## Nullnvoid

Beerkat Pty Ltd said:


> http://www.beerkat.com.au/product/soda-stream-converter/
> 
> Email us [email protected] and we'll apply the AHB discount
> 
> cheers [emoji482]
> Graham


There is an ahb discount? Cool.


----------



## Danscraftbeer

What is that right angle piece for the tap? (mini keg picture)
http://www.beerkat.com.au/product/brewers-3-78l-pack-free-metro-delivery/
I never realised there was that option. I would have gone that way instead since I assume it has a spring in it so the tap shuts off automatically etc. I have the standard disconnect set up but with no spring to shut the tap off automatic its really easy just to knock the tap and your beer just keeps pouring out. (all over the bench or in the fridge like)


----------



## Lionman

You can install a spring in most taps for auto shut off.


----------



## Danscraftbeer

Lionman said:


> You can install a spring in most taps for auto shut off.


Unless I'm missing something someone please tell me. Is there supposed to be a spring in the disconnect tap set up?
The disconnect tap set up cant have a spring. Its too small an area for a spring etc which I can accept but its a bit of a bummer as in not ideal.


----------



## nosco

I had to use a spring from a universal poppet. Not sure what its normally called. It goes in between the tap and the shank or whatever its called on the mini kegs.
I tried a few other springs, from the old style poppets, the intertap ones, but they either didnt work or were impossible to get in. These springs work very well. No more accidentally knocking the tap open and making a mess.

http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/products/category/KAIUEOMA-kegs-and-accessories/7KEG%20TANK%20PL%20POP%20KK--cornelius-post-poppet-assembly


----------



## Lionman

Danscraftbeer said:


> Unless I'm missing something someone please tell me. Is there supposed to be a spring in the disconnect tap set up?
> The disconnect tap set up cant have a spring. Its too small an area for a spring etc which I can accept but its a bit of a bummer as in not ideal.


http://www.intertap.beer/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/intertap-spring-with-short-shank-tap.jpg

Intertaps have a spring like this. Something similar will likely work for the tap on your mini. Looks like nosco has a solution.


----------



## Bones99

Thanks for that Nullnvoid as I didn't see that reply from Beerkat (and cannot see it now so not sure where its gone).


----------



## Danscraftbeer

nosco said:


> I had to use a spring from a universal poppet. Not sure what its normally called. It goes in between the tap and the shank or whatever its called on the mini kegs.
> I tried a few other springs, from the old style poppets, the intertap ones, but they either didnt work or were impossible to get in. These springs work very well. No more accidentally knocking the tap open and making a mess.
> 
> http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/products/category/KAIUEOMA-kegs-and-accessories/7KEG%20TANK%20PL%20POP%20KK--cornelius-post-poppet-assembly


Perfect. Glad I bought spares of them. Works a treat thanks nosco.


----------



## Grott

A cunning plan is in action at the moment for my 4L mini kegs.
Instead of filling from already chilled carbonated kegs in the fridge I'm currently fermenting a simple English Bitter. As I have a 19L keg not in use I intent to fill this and a 4l keg (23L brew) after fermentation. I will the draw off the 19L giving nearly another 5 x 4L fills to be chilled and carbonated.
What we think of when sitting back with a couple of beers.


----------



## Jack of all biers

Yep grott, that's what I got my 5 L minis for. 25 L brew fills corny, mini, with 1L for grub/yeast. When the minis are fixed/replaced that is.


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Hey all, can a liquid disconnect be used as a gas one? Obviously threads are all the same but I'm unsure about internals.
I only have 1 grey gas keg king disconnect but want to have 2 kegs gassed up this weekend.
This black liquid one hasn't been used before.
Cheers


----------



## Grott

The gas and liquid disconnects are not the same and is why there is a gas and liquid disconnect. You can put them on to opposite connections but try and get them off can be a different story.


----------



## earle

Pretty sure that liquid posts are a touch smaller than gas posts.You can get a gas disconnect onto both types of posts but not vice versa. If you manage to get a liquid disconnect onto a gas post they're hell to try to get off.


----------



## Zorco

earle said:


> Pretty sure that liquid posts are a touch smaller than gas posts.You can get a gas disconnect onto both types of posts but not vice versa. If you manage to get a liquid disconnect onto a gas post they're hell to try to get off.


But I've found that not all of my gas disconnects work this way perfectly, manufacturing quality probably. I save my most compatible ones for my gas cylinders.


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Cool thanks guys, exactly the info I was after.
I shall try and get the cook to drop into the LHBS and grab a grey one this week. Otherwise I may have to utilize the free shipping of $200 spend value at keg king


----------



## Schooner_downunder

nosco said:


> I had to use a spring from a universal poppet. Not sure what its normally called. It goes in between the tap and the shank or whatever its called on the mini kegs.
> I tried a few other springs, from the old style poppets, the intertap ones, but they either didnt work or were impossible to get in. These springs work very well. No more accidentally knocking the tap open and making a mess.
> 
> http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/products/category/KAIUEOMA-kegs-and-accessories/7KEG%20TANK%20PL%20POP%20KK--cornelius-post-poppet-assembly


Picked up a few from keg king for $1.49 each and worked like a charm, no more accidental losses 

http://kegking.com.au/poppet-for-ball-lock-kegs.html


----------



## Nullnvoid

Not sure if I have a dud regulator or just my inexperience showing through. 

It worked the first few times but now no gas is coming through when it's plugged in and the regulator turned on. The dial on the regulator doesn't move. I even changed the bulb to a new one thinking it was that and it's not. 

Not sure if it matters but keg lies down in fridge but with no tap or regulator on. 

What am I doing wrong?


----------



## Grott

Disconnect gauge from the keg, does the pressure rise back to the setting on the reg?


----------



## Nullnvoid

Sometimes. But not all the way. Only to 10-15psi


----------



## Nullnvoid

Scratch that it does work not plugged in. Just immediately stops working once plugged into the keg.


----------



## Grott

I found if you set reg before attaching to keg at say 10psi, when you attached it the pressure would drop to an amount the keg would absorb and stay there. Meaning if pressure in the was say 5psi the gauge would drop to that reading and if left on the keg would very slowly rise to the 10psi again.
The other day I was pouring beers at 8psi. As I did this the gauge would drop as I poured. It would slowly return to 8 psi again but I found it easier and better to pour the beer, disconnect the reg which then would shoot straight back to 8psi ready for the next pour. This was no big deal it's just these mini regs are sensitive.
Hope this helps


----------



## Nullnvoid

I'll give that a go. 

How long did it take to rise back up? (And that's the regulator not you after receiving your new kegs .)


----------



## Grott

Nullnvoid said:


> Scratch that it does work not plugged in. Just immediately stops working once plugged into the keg.


Yes as above I'd say. Straight away off the keg, fair while still attached. Remember it's only going to replace what is released from the keg. If you leave it on the keg and it's at zero, if you pour another beer it should rise on the gauge as the co2 pressure is used up but it's a slow pour therefore why easier and best to disconnect between pours.


----------



## Nullnvoid

Just tried that. Turns out I'm impatient. But leaving it on it does exactly as you said! Thanks Grott 

That's different from when I first used it. But anyway as long as it works. Going away middle of the week and need to have it all working


----------



## peekaboo_jones

So... found an esky on hard rubbish recently (slight bit of mould and had a cracked lid. All easily fixed) that fits 2x5L mini kegs, ice packs, disconnects, regulators.
I just use hose and plastic taps for serving. Worked well today at my daughter's 3rd birthday for the Dads!

Edit: beers were Belgian pale ale and American Amber ale.
Kegs MKIII purchase, Belgian had slight metallic taste (as described by someone else, I didn't pre warned anyone). 
Amber didn't but it was quite Hoppy


----------



## Lionman

Managed to get all the black grease out of mine. Soaking in starsan now until I use them.


----------



## brianman

Went out this morn'n to grab a keg to chill, Furphy clone only 9 days in, not carb'd, a little immature for me, she'll be right, a few more days to mature while carbing. It was sitting on the bottom shelf, so hadn't noticed anything. I have the kegs sitting on cloth, as not to get scratched on the perforated plate shelving. The cloth looked a bit strange, after clearing my eyes, the cloth and the keg had mould growing on them. No moisture above, a little below. No blown stubbies, must be the keg. Removed and cleaned, hit with 10psi, nothing from the spear, got me buggered, i'll compare weight with another one. Moisture on the scale, on further inspection small leak from the seam where the bottom rolled piece joins the barrel. Will contact ATHB tomorrow.
Will chill and transfer to stubbies if it tastes ok. This keg is from BBIV


----------



## Grott

That sucks. Obviously no quality control in China, what a stupid thing to say - of course there isn't.


----------



## brianman

grott said:


> That sucks. Obviously no quality control in China, what a stupid thing to say - of course there isn't.


I'll see what Mark says, could squeeze some glue in their, but the thought of infection, pops up. Hope no one else has this problem.


----------



## Grott

I was suprised at the vision of the weld,checked my 4l ones and can't even see the weld


----------



## brianman

The seam is only visible in part of keg, the photo of the bottom shows the opposite side. The top weld is even more visible, they must weld then machine back, this one must have been first up Monday morning joby.


----------



## brianman

briby said:


> The seam is only visible in part of keg, the photo of the bottom shows the opposite side. The top weld is even more visible, they must weld then machine back, this one must have been first up Monday morning joby.


Thank god the other 17 aren't as bad, Grott how are yours going as far as the metallic taste.


----------



## EalingDrop

I can't remember if this was mentioned in the previous pages. Does anyone know how to transfer from keg to keg? 

I've got some beers I'd like to transfer from the 5L to the 2L. Is this what they call a 'daisy chain' 

From what I've seen, it appears the liquid is received through the gas disconnect which doesn't make any sense to me unless that gas disconnect is sacificed as a dedicated liquid. Any ideas?


----------



## SBOB

EalingDrop said:


> I can't remember if this was mentioned in the previous pages. Does anyone know how to transfer from keg to keg?
> 
> I've got some beers I'd like to transfer from the 5L to the 2L. Is this what they call a 'daisy chain'
> 
> From what I've seen, it appears the liquid is received through the gas disconnect which doesn't make any sense to me unless that gas disconnect is sacificed as a dedicated liquid. Any ideas?


make up a hose with liquid disconnect on each end, 
gas both kegs to same pressure
connect liquid to liquid line
release some pressure from destination keg
release further pressure as needed using condensation line as a guide 

at least, thats my method


----------



## earle

Connect liquid to liquid, gas to gas. Full method here - http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/16907-keg-transfer-made-easy/


----------



## EalingDrop

Thanks for the tip SBOB. 

Presumably, let the receiving vessel settle a bit as the turbulence would have knocked CO2 out of solution during transfer?


----------



## EalingDrop

Perfect! Thanks both!


----------



## Grott

briby said:


> Thank god the other 17 aren't as bad, Grott how are yours going as far as the metallic taste.


No metallic taste as yet but so far I've only filled the kegs am for use pm therefore the brew has not been sitting long. But this will change next week when fermented brew will sit for 2 to 3 days in the kegs. Will let you know.


----------



## stilvia

I purchased 3x 5L kegs in the second group buy. I've been using two on rotation and filling them from my cornys as I need which has been brilliant.

January I brewed a smaller batch of stout which I carbed straight in the mini kegs. I tapped one tonight and it is foul. Poured out the keg and ran a rag around inside the top of the keg and I've got this black buildup others are describing. Second keg is the same. Third keg is unused but will check that out this weekend.

Kegs are perfect short term, not so much longer term. What's been arranged so far for the faulty kegs?


----------



## Mardoo

Zoroc can add you to the PM. Return and exchange has been organised.


----------



## Chap

I bought one 5L from the MKIV BB. It blew a week or 1 ago but let sit in the fridge gassed until today. Cleaned it out and ran my finger inside - black residue. No metallic taste though. Currently soaking in NaPerc and will leave overnight to hopefully resolve the issue. If not I'll be looking to be added to the PM.


----------



## EalingDrop

Same issue here with my 2L mini keg. Black film. Zorco, can you add me as well. Thanks mate


----------



## Grott

Am I correctly noting that the 5 litre kegs are the main problem with some 2l and no 4l? Or is proportional to sale numbers?


----------



## Parks

grott said:


> Am I correctly noting that the 5 litre kegs are the main problem with some 2l and no 4l? Or is proportional to sale numbers?


My 4L is rubbish - really poor quality weld around the top. No problem noticed with black film or metallic taste but still rubbish.


----------



## bradsbrew

I though the majority was 2 and 4 were dodgy.


----------



## Chap

EalingDrop said:


> Same issue here with my 2L mini keg. Black film. Zorco, can you add me as well. Thanks mate


Hey Zorco, can you please add me too, black film and some small rust spots. The welds look ok, but being my first mini experience I'm not sure what they're supposed to look like. Cheers


----------



## Lionman

People reporting the black grease film on the inside. Did your kegs have this prior to use and where they cleaned? Has the problem since returned?


----------



## A3k

[SIZE=medium]My BBIV 5L had heaps of black grease inside (and a couple of smallish rust spots that I’m not too worried about). I used napisan and boiling water about 3 times and Startsan a few times. I used soap and water soak, nothing made a difference, didn’t really change the colour of the liquid either, so that tells me it wasn’t doing much at all.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]i then used a some rice cold, water and soap several time and then napisan several times, then shook the hell out of it. This made a difference, but didn’t get it all. Came out dark everytime[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Finally I used a cloth on a stick and scrubbed for ages, then did the soap and napisan rice mix again.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Now I have no sign of it. I did this about 10 days ago as I’m in BBIV. I ran my finger on the inside yesterday and didn’t notice any issues.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]It’s a bit frustrating. I’m hesitant to use it in case I’m missing some though, but I don’t think I can return it now as I’ve probably removed all evidence of the problem.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]I think I’m going to have to fill it and see if it gets tainted and hope it’s not dangerous.[/SIZE]


----------



## brianman

A3k said:


> [SIZE=medium]My BBIV 5L had heaps of black grease inside (and a couple of smallish rust spots that I’m not too worried about). I used napisan and boiling water about 3 times and Startsan a few times. I used soap and water soak, nothing made a difference, didn’t really change the colour of the liquid either, so that tells me it wasn’t doing much at all.[/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=medium]i then used a some rice cold, water and soap several time and then napisan several times, then shook the hell out of it. This made a difference, but didn’t get it all. Came out dark everytime[/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=medium]Finally I used a cloth on a stick and scrubbed for ages, then did the soap and napisan rice mix again.[/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=medium]Now I have no sign of it. I did this about 10 days ago as I’m in BBIV. I ran my finger on the inside yesterday and didn’t notice any issues.[/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=medium]It’s a bit frustrating. I’m hesitant to use it in case I’m missing some though, but I don’t think I can return it now as I’ve probably removed all evidence of the problem.[/SIZE]
> [SIZE=medium]I think I’m going to have to fill it and see if it gets tainted and hope it’s not dangerous.[/SIZE]


That's not good at all, i was just talking to Mark, seems some must have snuck through QC, the 10 i bought in BBIV have no sign of black grease or even light film inside the top. I just cleaned/rinsed a keg i blew last night, was a BB2 joby, (they had metallic aroma), this keg has been used* twice*, now has no aroma, so just cleaning and sanitiser till needed and see how it goes. Have been using EDTA to get rid of aroma/taste in full kegs, works but shouldn't need to be using anything at all.


----------



## Lionman

The black greasy residue is probably black oxide, which is applied to stainless steel to prevent corrosion (among other things) but you don't want it in the keg. This is probably coated on the metal in its sheet form to protect it during manufacturing.

I'm worried that kegs that have it have not been correctly cleaned and passivated, so even if we do clean it out, there is a chance they will start to corrode or have some other negative impact on the contents.

Given the outside of the kegs appear to be fine, it seems as if the manufacturing process skipped any cleaning/treatment of the inside.


----------



## nosco

Finally got my 2lt today!

My SS Brewtech Brewbucket instructions say:

"Pre-Clean: Prior to first time use, thoroughly wash all surfaces of the Brew Bucket, including all valves and fittings, with Tri-Sodium Phosphate (TSP) in hot water, mixed to the manufacturer’s recommendations. Scrub with a soft terry cloth, and after the initial TSP wash, rinse thoroughly and dry all surfaces".

That would be the very least you should do for these kegs before use so thats what Im doing tonight. Then ill give it a clean with perc and then another clean with perc and then air dry to passivate. Then Ill give it a wipe with a cloth


----------



## brianman

nosco said:


> Finally got my 2lt today!
> 
> My SS Brewtech Brewbucket instructions say:
> 
> "Pre-Clean: Prior to first time use, thoroughly wash all surfaces of the Brew Bucket, including all valves and fittings, with Tri-Sodium Phosphate (TSP) in hot water, mixed to the manufacturer’s recommendations. Scrub with a soft terry cloth, and after the initial TSP wash, rinse thoroughly and dry all surfaces".
> 
> That would be the very least you should do for these kegs before use so thats what Im doing tonight. Then ill give it a clean with perc and then another clean with perc and then air dry to passivate. Then Ill give it a wipe with a cloth


Not taking umbrage with you Nosco, but to say the least you _should_ do in my mind is being a tad harsh, in hind sight is ok, but the manufacturer of these kegs says they have been passivated and a wash with mild soap is all that is needed, so that's what most are doing if not more.


----------



## bradsbrew

nosco said:


> Finally got my 2lt today!
> 
> My SS Brewtech Brewbucket instructions say:
> 
> "Pre-Clean: Prior to first time use, thoroughly wash all surfaces of the Brew Bucket, including all valves and fittings, with Tri-Sodium Phosphate (TSP) in hot water, mixed to the manufacturer’s recommendations. Scrub with a soft terry cloth, and after the initial TSP wash, rinse thoroughly and dry all surfaces".
> 
> That would be the very least you should do for these kegs before use so thats what Im doing tonight. Then ill give it a clean with perc and then another clean with perc and then air dry to passivate. Then Ill give it a wipe with a cloth


Yeah but it is alot harder to scrub the inside of the mini keg than a brewbucket.


----------



## Danscraftbeer

So I guess people are worried about drinking the coat of metal protectant? :unsure:

IMO Its mandatory to do as thorough cleaning as possible to a container at purchase prior to food containing.
Glass, Plastic, and especially Stainless Steal. 
Consider the manufacture of steal products to last the time before being sold it will have anti corrosion coating.
Unless Polished like the outside but no keg in the world that I know of is polished on the inside??????
Even if it was it can stain and still needs thorough cleaning.

I'll never think any other way than the every inch of the inside needs to be cleaner soaked for some time then the entire surface wiped/scrubed to get off the film of whatever including beer stone. (beer stain)

Think detailed tools like a right angle/bent cleaning brush to get up to this inside top etc. Elbow grease, one wipe is whimpy etc.
I'm thinking that peoples may run their finger under the rim inside and get a dark residue? Its simple that the common area you haven't cleaned properly. 

Consider Stainless Steal is a bit of a false name really.
It is the longest most durable but its only as clean as that it was cleaned etc.


----------



## nosco

Danscraftbeer said:


> IMO Its mandatory to do as thorough cleaning as possible to a container at purchase prior to food containing.
> Glass, Plastic, and especially Stainless Steal.


What he said. Before I put in the TSP I gave it the finger test and got a bit of black on my finger and interestingly it wasnt dry as there was a bit of condensation on the inside of the keg.


----------



## Danscraftbeer

Confessions challenge. 

Who thought that these things were good to fill with beer out of the box?


----------



## Danscraftbeer

I'll add to that these mini kegs are of the best stainless steal products I have purchased.
I have no affiliation to anyone involved. Yet! B)


----------



## brianman

Danscraftbeer said:


> I'll add to that these mini kegs are of the best stainless steal products I have purchased.
> I have no affiliation to anyone involved. Yet! B)


(IMO Its mandatory to do as thorough cleaning as possible to a container at purchase prior to food containing.)
I take it you mean after purchase prior to food containment, i agree, but hard to do in a small opening vessel, great idea, sure, until you have x amount of kegs leaving an unwanted flavour in your pride and joy. Hopefully everyone putting our heads together can come up with a solution, by the look of it there are a lot of people working on solutions. ATHB, Zorco, IKegger and anyone else, thanks for your efforts.


----------



## Zorco

Shout out to BeerKat. Best on ground.


----------



## nosco

Could oxalic acid _cause _rust?


----------



## Jack of all biers

nosco said:


> Could oxalic acid _cause _rust?


I doubt it, but you must have a reason for asking, so spit it out....


----------



## nosco

So I had a brilliant (stupid) idea of rinsing my 2lt keg with a heap of oxalic and hot water. I left it for about 30min and rinsed it out. It left a few dark grey marks on the top of the keg an the inside looked a bit more grey too (maybe my imagination) and it smelled metallic. So I figured I had nothing to lose so tonight I gave it another 30 min soak in hot perc and a big tea spoon of oxalic.

When I poured in the hot water it bubbled out and the liquid had a very noticeable orange tinge to it and the threads got instant rust stains as well as the cap and the area around the keg handle. After I rinsed it out again I had a quick look inside and I got a glimpse of a huge rust patch and I could see where rust had settled in the water on the bottom. So what the hell I gave it another 5 big teaspoons of oxalic and hot water which seemed to clean the rust away except for a tiny bit on the handle and Ill have to clean the cap again. So I dont know if the rust was already in there or it developed over night while drying out.?.

I just had a look inside with the camera and it looks crystal clean and the inside feels squeaky clean. Ill leave it over night again to dry and see how it goes. I should have taken pics of the rust but I baby sit the kids on week nights plus Im impatient as well.


----------



## Jack of all biers

nosco said:


> So I had a brilliant (stupid) idea of rinsing my 2lt keg with a heap of oxalic and hot water. I left it for about 30min and rinsed it out.


This was not a stupid idea.




nosco said:


> So I figured I had nothing to lose so tonight I gave it another 30 min soak in hot perc and a big tea spoon of oxalic.


This was probably not the best idea. Mixing Sodium Percarbonate (alkaline) and Oxalic (acid) won't necessarily F things up, but it sure as hell reduces the effect of both. What made you think this was a good idea? Sodium Percarbonate will clean up organic matter, NOT rust or corrosion. It is an OXIDIZER not a de-oxidizer. Corrosion or rust is the oxidation of the metal.

I would treat the keg again with Oxalic solution at 60-70C at the recommended solution and do your best to scrub the areas that have further oxidised. Then rinse with soft water (or DI water) then dry thoroughly (hair drier is good for this), then leave for a day before checking for black areas or rust. IF there are further signs of corosion, treat again with Oxalic solution and scrubing (the best you can as i know how difficult these kegs are to get into) and repeat the rinse, dry and wait period.

EDIT - and by scrub, I mean a non metallic scrub, or at least don't use iron, steel or stainless steel to scrub your keg. A green scrubby pad or other non metallic brush or similar will be best.


----------



## nosco

So the O2 in the perc probably created a heap of rust from whatever the oxaloc was taking of?


----------



## nosco

Ill get some scrubbys and repeat tomorrow nigjt minus the perc.


----------



## Lionman

nosco said:


> I baby sit the kids on week nights.


You mean your on parenting duties? You can't babysit your own kids unless your talking about kids that aren't yours.

Sorry for the OT. Lol


----------



## nosco

Yep parenting duties


----------



## peteru

Every article I read about proper passivation technique explicitly says that after you finish passivation you must rinse and then neutralise the acid to prevent unwanted corrosion. The recommended chemical for the neutralisation is sodium hydroxide aka caustic soda. You must rinse that off too.

So the steps are:

1. Clean with 70C caustic soda (possibly save this for acid neutralisation later)
2. Rinse with plenty of water
3. Passivate with 70C acid for around 30 minutes
4. Rinse with plenty of water
5. Neutralise with 70C caustic soda for 30 minutes
6. Rinse with plenty of water
7. Dry
8. Leave exposed to air for a few days

Make sure you don't mix caustic soda with the acid, unless you want dangerous, bad juju.


----------



## Jack of all biers

peteru said:


> Every article I read about proper passivation technique explicitly says that after you finish passivation you must rinse and then neutralise the acid to prevent unwanted corrosion. The recommended chemical for the neutralisation is sodium hydroxide aka caustic soda. You must rinse that off too.


Which acids though? Proper passivation with Nitric Acid yeah, but I don't think Oxalic or Citric will need neutralisation to prevent them corroding SS. A good thorough hot rinse with low mineral water will be fine for those acids.


----------



## peteru

I've seen neutralisation recommended for passivation using nitric, phosphoric and citric acids in particular. I don't actually recall oxalic (or acetic) acid being recommended for passivation.

At the end of the day, if the acid is capable of removing iron and it's oxides, then neutralising it when the goal is accomplished makes sense, regardless of which particular acid it was.

I think the theory is that with simple rinsing the acid can remain in crevices at high enough concentration to cause corrosion. Chemical neutralisation will work better - as long as you are not introducing anything (such as chlorine) that would promote corrosion.


----------



## Zorco

Well, it has been six months since the concept of this BB was born, and my set has finally arrived. Ohhhh boy I gleefully remember back to the original joy that these bad boys have brought many of us.

[Yob started MK BB.....................................................................................................................................................................................]

This time I wanted the 4 litre units and they are magnificent. Once I had thought that they would not have the low centre of gravity necessary to be a reliable pourer that the 5L and 2L were sure to be. The aspect ratio was not what I thought it should be...

But I was dead the frig wrong as wrong as wrong. (Thank you pints 4 and 5 for that extra "wrong" back there)

The keg holds up strong, looks bloody enchanting on the table and here is the best bit.

Perlick Flow Control........

Occasionally some shit happens to you that you can't go back from.....

A king bed, two monitors, sex with two women at once.... Life changing events... And I will tell you that Perlick flow control taps are firmly in this category.. Especially for mini kegs.

Whatever $40-50 you think isn't worth it for these..... just somehow make it happen.... Sell your cat, sell your wife. Get the Flow Control. Wait the extra 3-4 weeks and save that extra few buck.... quit smoking......don't go to the pub that month...... save that coin. Get the flow control Perlick taps..... 

Now.... where is my cult thermometer order.... NO! It isn't at that level..... Get the Flow Controls.


(Lights hypocritical virtual ciggy after the climax......)

And my welds are mint... Freaking mint. No colour, perfect lines and the handle section seam has been welded directly inline with the body weld seam. 

Get your weird ass stupid kegs replaced. I'm certain that Beerkat and ATHB have been the unlucky pallbearers for some stock. But the quality will eventually rise with the cream that is out there.


Mini Kegs at 8:00 o'clock...... Make it so!

Zorco.


----------



## nosco

Whats a cult thermometer? I want one!


----------



## brianman

So what's everyone using for oxalic acid, Diggers rust/stain remover?, is there anything cheaper, & how many times can you reuse. As i have a lot of kegs, wondering if i filled 4 then transfer and so on, and keep them warm in the oven. Am thinking that would be ok as mine don't have black gunk.


----------



## Zorco

Why all do this.

Why go into this

Let it be girls....... stop fiddling....


If you have a genuine product warranty claim.... Call the dude.


This thread has gone tropic. Chilllllllaxxxxxxx Yaaaaalllll. If said keg is fucked. Then contact said supplier about said fucked keg to get said fucked keg ******* actioned.


Now.....

Where is my crazy acid pokemon so I can cheerfully play with acids uselessly.



Zorco,

That Krunt


----------



## peteru

For me the best upgrade to the 5L minikeg was the Flow Control Intertap with the Keg King 90 degree stainless steel disconnect. Neat, good looking and very usable, even when the regulator is playing up.

The Intertap FC was definitely the right choice for me, I can use the stout nozzle from my main kegerator with the tap when needed.


----------



## brianman

Zorco said:


> Well, it has been six months since the concept of this BB was born, and my set has finally arrived. Ohhhh boy I gleefully remember back to the original joy that these bad boys have brought many of us.
> 
> [Yob started MK BB.....................................................................................................................................................................................]
> 
> This time I wanted the 4 litre units and they are magnificent. Once I had thought that they would not have the low centre of gravity necessary to be a reliable pourer that the 5L and 2L were sure to be. The aspect ratio was not what I thought it should be...
> 
> But I was dead the frig wrong as wrong as wrong. (Thank you pints 4 and 5 for that extra "wrong" back there)
> 
> The keg holds up strong, looks bloody enchanting on the table and here is the best bit.
> 
> Perlick Flow Control........
> 
> Occasionally some shit happens to you that you can't go back from.....
> 
> A king bed, two monitors, sex with two women at once.... Life changing events... And I will tell you that Perlick flow control taps are firmly in this category.. Especially for mini kegs.
> 
> Whatever $40-50 you think isn't worth it for these..... just somehow make it happen.... Sell your cat, sell your wife. Get the Flow Control. Wait the extra 3-4 weeks and save that extra few buck.... quit smoking......don't go to the pub that month...... save that coin. Get the flow control Perlick taps.....
> 
> Now.... where is my cult thermometer order.... NO! It isn't at that level..... Get the Flow Controls.
> 
> 
> (Lights hypocritical virtual ciggy after the climax......)
> 
> And my welds are mint... Freaking mint. No colour, perfect lines and the handle section seam has been welded directly inline with the body weld seam.
> 
> Get your weird ass stupid kegs replaced. I'm certain that Beerkat and ATHB have been the unlucky pallbearers for some stock. But the quality will eventually rise with the cream that is out there.
> 
> 
> Mini Kegs at 8:00 o'clock...... Make it so!
> 
> Zorco.


Yeah they're great Zorco, run mine full open @ about 4-5psi, if pressure seems too high or cracking a keg start off lower.


----------



## brianman

Zorco said:


> Why all do this.
> 
> Why go into this
> 
> Let it be girls....... stop fiddling....
> 
> 
> If you have a genuine product warranty claim.... Call the dude.
> 
> 
> This thread has gone tropic. Chilllllllaxxxxxxx Yaaaaalllll. If said keg is fucked. Then contact said supplier about said fucked keg to get said fucked keg ******* actioned.
> 
> 
> Now.....
> 
> Where is my crazy acid pokemon so I can cheerfully play with acids uselessly.
> 
> 
> 
> Zorco,
> 
> That Krunt


Lets see what you think in a few weeks time.


----------



## peteru

More or less what Zorco said. If you can be bothered with an attempt at DIY remedy, do not use any chemical that's stronger than what you can get from Coles/Woolworths. That pretty much translates to 10% by weight citric acid in water.

Depending on how much stuff the acid dissolves, it may be single use only. If you use contaminated solution you can cause "flash attack", which ruins the surface and actually puts a black coating on the stainless steel.

Just randomly throwing chemicals at the keg, without understanding at least some of the processes and risks, is only going to make things worse.


----------



## Zorco

briby said:


> Lets see what you think in a few weeks time.


I know what I think now...

Everyone who bought a minikeg should have an excellent, corrosion free, balls out, tit flashing, premium mini keg experience.


We, all and everyone, should be loving this kit.

And I think we should, hopefully everyone with problems calls their retailer and gets sorted.... I know they want the same.


Schlongdog.


----------



## brianman

peteru said:


> More or less what Zorco said. If you can be bothered with an attempt at DIY remedy, do not use any chemical that's stronger than what you can get from Coles/Woolworths. That pretty much translates to 10% by weight citric acid in water.
> 
> Depending on how much stuff the acid dissolves, it may be single use only. If you use contaminated solution you can cause "flash attack", which ruins the surface and actually puts a black coating on the stainless steel.
> 
> Just randomly throwing chemicals at the keg, without understanding at least some of the processes and risks, is only going to make things worse.


(Just randomly throwing chemicals at the keg, without understanding at least some of the processes and risks, is only going to make things worse.)
I understand that, i have done some research, am going to use 10% by weight, am going to keep at 65-70deg for 30 min.
I am waiting for one replacement keg, because of faulty/bad base seam that leaked. I will then return mine in that packaging, but am not paying for 18 returns.


----------



## Zorco

What do you mean "18 returns"? 

You own 18 kegs?

Forgive me, I don't have memory for things I do procedurally.


----------



## brianman

Zorco said:


> What do you mean "18 returns"?
> 
> You own 18 kegs?
> 
> Forgive me, I don't have memory for things I do procedurally.


No forgive me, for i don't have the gift of the gab, as you do, but yes 18, 8 from ATHB as BB2 was winding up, & 10 BB4. They do look prurdy though, & love the idea, especially for people like me who don't have, not allowed a beer fridge.


----------



## goatchop41

Zorco said:


> Perlick Flow Control........
> 
> Occasionally some shit happens to you that you can't go back from.....
> 
> A king bed, two monitors, sex with two women at once.... Life changing events... And I will tell you that Perlick flow control taps are firmly in this category.. Especially for mini kegs.
> 
> Whatever $40-50 you think isn't worth it for these..... just somehow make it happen.... Sell your cat, sell your wife. Get the Flow Control. Wait the extra 3-4 weeks and save that extra few buck.... quit smoking......don't go to the pub that month...... save that coin. Get the flow control Perlick taps.....
> 
> Now.... where is my cult thermometer order.... NO! It isn't at that level..... Get the Flow Controls.


I just wanna know where you're getting Perlick FCs for $50!!

....or have I interpreted that wrong, and you're actually referring to the _extra_ $40-50 that you would spend above a normal tap....yeah, probably that one


----------



## goatchop41

briby said:


> I am waiting for one replacement keg, because of faulty/bad base seam that leaked. I will then return mine in that packaging, but am not paying for 18 returns.


This is one of my beefs....we've ended up with a shonky product, and we have to pay from them to be returned and replaced? Doesn't seem right to me. I know that it's not the fault of the particular seller from the BB that some of the kegs were fucked, but still......


----------



## bradsbrew

goatchop41 said:


> This is one of my beefs....we've ended up with a shonky product, and we have to pay from them to be returned and replaced? Doesn't seem right to me. I know that it's not the fault of the particular seller from the BB that some of the kegs were fucked, but still......


I guess that's the risk attached to bulk buys ad b buy pricing.
Beerkat is organising and covering costs of returns/ replacements. Cant beat buying direct at retail price and service.


----------



## Grott

This is not afault but a maintenance issue. One of my 4l kegs from the last bulk buy was fairly flat after a force carb two days ago. No pressure in the keg and found the gas post on the spear was only finger tight and leaked slowly. Turned out all posts on my two units needed tightening.


----------



## goatchop41

grott said:


> This is not afault but a maintenance issue. One of my 4l kegs from the last bulk buy was fairly flat after a force carb two days ago. No pressure in the keg and found the gas post on the spear was only finger tight and leaked slowly. Turned out all posts on my two units needed tightening.


Yeah, those posts actually unscrew very easily. I've them come loose and lose a seal multiple times if I accidentally twist one of the disconnects when it's attached to the post


----------



## brianman

goatchop41 said:


> Yeah, those posts actually unscrew very easily. I've them come loose and lose a seal multiple times if I accidentally twist one of the disconnects when it's attached to the post


Another thing onto the prestart check sheet.


----------



## clarkie54

How's everyone going with BB4 kegs? Bloody impressive concept.

After leaving beer in mine for 3 weeks, the 2L one seems fine, but my two 5L jobbies have definitely given the beer a metallic taste. Only half filled those.

I did a TSP clean and scrubbed the inside as best I could, then a 1.5x star San rinse. Let to dry for a week. Repeated the process with Sodium Perc, a normal star San rinse and to minimise oxygen I ran the starsan out using gas. Half filled with beer in each keg.

Willing to give it another go, has anyone's improved second time round or am I just wishful thinking. Anyone suggest a different process?


----------



## Grott

Well my 2 x 4l ones are excellent. Had one with a brew in it for a week, the other 2 weeks - both without any off/metallic tastes. The mini gauge (Beerkat) works a treat so I'm happy. I rinse straight after use, soak with sodium percarbonate overnight and rinse with hot water.


----------



## Zorco

Same here mate. I am totally smitten on the 4L version.


----------



## SBOB

Still need to get around to sending my 2l back.. 
Anyone shipped theirs back to athb yet?


----------



## LiquidGold

I still haven't either. I'm waiting to find out if the one I got for my bro is also affected before I commit to sending any back. Hope there is no issue with being a bit slow on returns.


----------



## brianman

clarkie54 said:


> How's everyone going with BB4 kegs? Bloody impressive concept.
> 
> After leaving beer in mine for 3 weeks, the 2L one seems fine, but my two 5L jobbies have definitely given the beer a metallic taste. Only half filled those.
> 
> I did a TSP clean and scrubbed the inside as best I could, then a 1.5x star San rinse. Let to dry for a week. Repeated the process with Sodium Perc, a normal star San rinse and to minimise oxygen I ran the starsan out using gas. Half filled with beer in each keg.
> 
> Willing to give it another go, has anyone's improved second time round or am I just wishful thinking. Anyone suggest a different process?


I basically did the same, without scrubbing, as they had no black gunk but did have fluid remaining of differing amounts. So i assume they hadn't been passivated correctly, ie dried and aired for a reasonable time. After my attempt they smell the same as before, have filled a couple but not chilled yet.


----------



## clarkie54

Thanks everyone. None of mine showed any signs of blackness. 

Interestingly after having half the 2L last night, I attached the mini reg and bulb. Now the 2L is also tasting a bit metallic. I remember the first two pots of one of my 5L's were fine before attaching the reg. didn't think about it at the time. Could the gas be a cause? Sounds odd. Must admit didn't clean the reg, bulb or run cleaning solution through the gas post. Will do that next time.

Will also try boiling water next time instead of starsan as the final rinse.


----------



## brianman

clarkie54 said:


> Thanks everyone. None of mine showed any signs of blackness.
> 
> Interestingly after having half the 2L last night, I attached the mini reg and bulb. Now the 2L is also tasting a bit metallic. I remember the first two pots of one of my 5L's were fine before attaching the reg. didn't think about it at the time. Could the gas be a cause? Sounds odd. Must admit didn't clean the reg, bulb or run cleaning solution through the gas post. Will do that next time.
> 
> Will also try boiling water next time instead of starsan as the final rinse.


Don't think so, i've been using CO2 bottle, except for the playing around when i first received initial kegs and reg set up, and still have metallic taste. At one stage i thought my taste buds were tuned into metal, but glad i'm not alone.


----------



## peteru

Yep, I've had metallic taste and darkened beer when only used with normal kegerator CO2. It seems to be a factor of how long the beer spends in the minikeg. The longer it is in there, the more risk you run. Contamination is not apparent if you serve the same day as you fill. It is very noticeable if the beer sits in the minikeg for 4 weeks.


----------



## Gmoney

I've been looking at getting one of these mini kegs and I am not sure whether to get a 4 litre or a 5 litre one. What are the pro's and cons of each? Does the 4l fit in the fridge door (it must be tall once the tap is fitted) while the 5l one appears to too big for the door but well sized for an esky. I would buy several in each size if I could afford it but I am only looking at one at this stage. 

Is it safe to assume that quality issues were batch related and the Bulk Buys were just unlucky or is it a potential risk from any of the suppliers?


----------



## crowmanz

Gmoney said:


> I've been looking at getting one of these mini kegs and I am not sure whether to get a 4 litre or a 5 litre one. What are the pro's and cons of each? Does the 4l fit in the fridge door (it must be tall once the tap is fitted) while the 5l one appears to too big for the door but well sized for an esky. I would buy several in each size if I could afford it but I am only looking at one at this stage.
> 
> Is it safe to assume that quality issues were batch related and the Bulk Buys were just unlucky or is it a potential risk from any of the suppliers?


I got a 4L for my uncle in law as he wanted one to fit in the house fridge and he could more easily get commercial refills (4L would be 2 growlers). I went for the larger 5L ones because I don't have space concerns in my keg fridge and can homebrew. 

My 5L ones were bulk buy (maybe the 2nd?) and his was iKegger, no issues reported on ours.


----------



## Grott

If your kegging and have 19 litre kegs then the 4l mini is perfect for a 23l fermenter brew. I have 2 x 4l, excellent.


----------



## Gmoney

grott said:


> If your kegging and have 19 litre kegs then the 4l mini is perfect for a 23l fermenter brew. I have 2 x 4l, excellent.


This will be my first foray into kegging so I am starting from scratch. I guess it will be a test to see if I like it or prefer washing bottles...................


----------



## EalingDrop

I've found most of my solutions looking at normal kegging topics. 

Blacken metallic is a batch issue for me. I've stored a Wheat beer for several months and compared the beer side by side with a bottle one, as well as an IPA (stored even longer) no sign of darkening. Bought 4L, 5L from various suppliers over the years all of which had no issues (apart from foam - see above for noob keggers). As a concept they are very good for those not ready to go all out with bigger kegs (Co2, storage etc), and I've gone everywhere with them and even built a mini bar because they're so portable. However the last one (2L) has all the mentioned problems. Overall I'm very pleased with them. Someones picking up those old bottles tonight!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

A satisfying day in the garden followed by a coldie, not a big fan of freezing cold pish but happy with my purchase.


----------



## Zeener

Does anybody know where you can buy Nitrogen bulbs from? I’ve searched all over the internet with none it sight.

I’ve seen plenty that are threadless but none with a thread that is suitable to the mini-regs.


----------



## peteru

Even if you could find a bulb that would fit, it would be Nitrous Oxide (aka laughing gas), not Nitrogen/CO2 mix (aka beer gas).


----------



## mattyg8

Just went and visited keg king and look like they have an updated version of the mini regulator. Has what seemed like a better swivel adapter and a valve release.


----------



## Danp3d

Had a massive drama today - my minikeg (which was daisy chained to one of my corny kegs) decided to start shooting beer out of the liquid out post when I disconnected the beer line. Of course I wasn't expecting that, so I thought my disconnect was broken or something and ended up taking me a while to be able to stop the thing - results: ended up soaked in beer from head to toe, and the whole room was sprayed. There's beer in the carpet. There's beer dripping from the ceiling.

To make things worse, there's an inspection tomorrow morning (rental property).

Anyone had any similar dramas before or am I just lucky?


----------



## Grott

Hell, not to that extent. Have had leakers where the liquid post ring was letting beer out when the disconnect and hose were under pressure.
What caused the problem in your case? Cleaning up beer spills is the shits.


----------



## Danp3d

Yeah, in my case the internal o-ring from the liquid post somehow got displaced and part of it ended up on top of that pin that stops the flow (the one that gets pushed down by the disconnect). That's causing the post to be constantly slightly open.
Still happy it didn't happen at work today. A bunch of computers soaked in beer doesn't sound good.


----------



## Brewnicorn

Danp3d said:


> Had a massive drama today - my minikeg (which was daisy chained to one of my corny kegs) decided to start shooting beer out of the liquid out post when I disconnected the beer line. Of course I wasn't expecting that, so I thought my disconnect was broken or something and ended up taking me a while to be able to stop the thing - results: ended up soaked in beer from head to toe, and the whole room was sprayed. There's beer in the carpet. There's beer dripping from the ceiling.
> 
> To make things worse, there's an inspection tomorrow morning (rental property).
> 
> Anyone had any similar dramas before or am I just lucky?



Not for me. Good luck with the inspection mate.


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Bugger! That's a real pain.
Other than that issue is the Daisy chain system ok? 
Do you set the 19L corny to serving pressure and connect the liquid post to the mini keg gas post? Is there frothing issues from the transfer?

I don't have room for a bigger setup yet but have some counter space close by under a sink that can house a few 19L cornys and thinking of having 2 or 3x 5L mini kegs Daisy chained in my old bar fridge. 
It's in a pretty hot room in summer, so temp fluctuation also is another main concern.


----------



## mofox1

Danp3d said:


> Had a massive drama today - my minikeg (which was daisy chained to one of my corny kegs) decided to start shooting beer out of the liquid out post when I disconnected the beer line. Of course I wasn't expecting that, so I thought my disconnect was broken or something and ended up taking me a while to be able to stop the thing - results: ended up soaked in beer from head to toe, and the whole room was sprayed. There's beer in the carpet. There's beer dripping from the ceiling.
> 
> To make things worse, there's an inspection tomorrow morning (rental property).
> 
> Anyone had any similar dramas before or am I just lucky?


Damn... 

If / Next time that happens - don't try to stop it leaking by going straight for the post. Either whack the beer disconnect back on or pull the PRV to depressurise..

Get some lube onto those o-rings too.. will reduce the chance of it happening again.


----------



## Danp3d

peekaboo_jones said:


> Bugger! That's a real pain.
> Other than that issue is the Daisy chain system ok?
> Do you set the 19L corny to serving pressure and connect the liquid post to the mini keg gas post? Is there frothing issues from the transfer?
> 
> I don't have room for a bigger setup yet but have some counter space close by under a sink that can house a few 19L cornys and thinking of having 2 or 3x 5L mini kegs Daisy chained in my old bar fridge.
> It's in a pretty hot room in summer, so temp fluctuation also is another main concern.



I had it at almost serving pressure (a tiny bit higher to adjust the flow a bit).
I actually filled it up with beer first, then pressurised it and connected it (corny beer out -> mini gas in; mini beer out -> tap).
Worked well, and the idea of always having the minikeg ready to go sounded really good. Only problem is the, you know, beer bomb thing.


----------



## Danp3d

mofox1 said:


> Damn...
> 
> If / Next time that happens - don't try to stop it leaking by going straight for the post. Either whack the beer disconnect back on or pull the PRV to depressurise..
> 
> Get some lube onto those o-rings too.. will reduce the chance of it happening again.



Yeah, I didn't even know it had a big o-ring just sitting inside the post like that. My corny kegs have poppet valves with the o-ring being almost like an integral part to them, taking them out is pretty hard - that kind of thing would never happen. But this one seems to be a completely different beast.

The only way I could stop the leaking was to attach my picnic tap and leave it there. I'll disassemble it tonight to try to understand that post - that big o-ring still doesn't make sense to me, I don't get why it's there in the first place. Seems to be just bad design - I can probably fix it by using a regular poppet valve like the ones in my other kegs.


----------



## Lionman

If my keg ever starts leaking beer after disconnecting the beer line, I will be promptly reconnecting the beer line. 

Plenty of conies use o'rings on the poppets too. The universal poppet valves employ an oring, its just a cheaper way to get the job done.

I hope you go the beer smell out of the carpet in time for the rent inspection...


----------



## Danp3d

I wasn't home, but my wife said the bloke who came to inspect the property spent more time analyzing my brewing equipment and looking funny at the fermenters than actually inspecting the place, so I guess it's all good.

I reckon I should wait for the police to pay me a visit saying they've received an anonymous tip that I'm cooking methamphetamine .


----------



## Pugdog1

Hey guys. Been a few years since I've brewer. Got sick of bottling story I'm sure you've all heard haha. Looking to keg and thinking 5 of these 5 litre kegs might be the way to Go? Or a corny and a 5? 

Are they a good bit of kit? 

And where's the cheapest place everyone has found to buy them with the spear that has the two post?

Any other handy info is much appreciated. 

Cheers guys


----------



## Gmoney

Pugdog1 said:


> And where's the cheapest place everyone has found to buy them with the spear that has the two post?
> 
> Cheers guys



I found that beerkat.com.au was the cheapest (no affiliation) and they have been pretty responsive in my dealing with them. They offer a discount for AHB members (have a look in the Sales thread). The 5 litre is pretty handy to have sitting in a bar fridge or if you don't have much room in the main fridge. The 2litre is handy to take to a mate's place in stead of a 6 pack. Can be used with the dispensing tap or if it is carbed up you can just pour it into a glass (looks better with a tap).


----------



## Liam_snorkel

I've also had a good experience with beerkat.


----------



## Ronwales

wide eyed and legless said:


> A satisfying day in the garden followed by a coldie, not a big fan of freezing cold pish but happy with my purchase.
> View attachment 97675


I just purchased the 2litre and 4litre kegs, did you have to do any mods to yours or is that standard. Reading some of these comments have got me a little scared that I bought something that doesn't wrk. .. fingers crossed


----------



## Ronwales

Gmoney said:


> This will be my first foray into kegging so I am starting from scratch. I guess it will be a test to see if I like it or prefer washing bottles...................


 How did you go? I get my kegs today can't wait!!


----------



## Grott

No, don't be put off. I have 2 of the 4litre kegs with mini regulator and a tap without flow control. Works great.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Ronwales said:


> I just purchased the 2litre and 4litre kegs, did you have to do any mods to yours or is that standard. Reading some of these comments have got me a little scared that I bought something that doesn't wrk. .. fingers crossed


I just got a tap with flow control on it and just the bog standard tap on the other one. As Grott says works just as well with or without.
The only thing I found that didn't work was when I attempted to take mine to a BYO restaurant my wife wouldn't allow it , said shes not going to sit at a table with a 4 litre keg of beer perched on top of it.


----------



## Grott

Bloody Hell WEAL, that is cruel and just not on. That would look great. If not allow then your wife should be buying what ever you want to drink regardless of the cost.


----------



## Ronwales

Grott said:


> No, don't be put off. I have 2 of the 4litre kegs with mini regulator and a tap without flow control. Works great.
> 
> View attachment 108471
> View attachment 108472


Cheers for the reply. Can't wait to get these babies!!!


----------



## Grott

You will love them. I set one up in a bag with ice packs and sit in the lounge for the footy or rugby. Get 6 and a bit imperial pints from my 4l and have another ready for more.


----------



## Pnutapper

wide eyed and legless said:


> I just got a tap with flow control on it and just the bog standard tap on the other one. As Grott says works just as well with or without.
> The only thing I found that didn't work was when I attempted to take mine to a BYO restaurant my wife wouldn't allow it , said shes not going to sit at a table with a 4 litre keg of beer perched on top of it.



Tell her to sit at another table.


----------



## SnailAle

My missus really knocks my socks off these days (we're married so go figure  ) 

But last night when I was talking about her cider I said how it'd be good itd be this summer having people over for bbq and being able to put on some beer and cider. She said "wouldn't it be easier in kegs?". So i said I was being smart with money like she asked, and she said "as long as we can restump the house in November you can get some!" 

So looks like I'm in the market soon! No idea about them though so I'm trying to read through this thread. If anyone has suggestions on what to start with that'd be great. Ideally I'd like to have a bit of a bar in my shed with some taps popping out. Probably not going to buy a kegerator with 19 litre kegs just yet though. Some of these 8 or 9 litre jobs seem alright though?


----------



## laxation

I'd recommend you go for the 19L ones. They're actually cheaper ($60-75 second hand) and don't require as much work because you have double quantity in them - not as much cleaning, refilling, etc..


----------



## earle

laxation said:


> I'd recommend you go for the 19L ones. They're actually cheaper ($60-75 second hand) and don't require as much work because you have double quantity in them - not as much cleaning, refilling, etc..



Plus you could get a chest freezer pretty cheap off gumtree or FB, and set it up pretty easily for 19L kegs - picnic taps or pluto taps or a basic collar with some taps though it. Chesty could be repurposed under a bar and font later down the track.


----------



## Ronwales

Grott said:


> You will love them. I set one up in a bag with ice packs and sit in the lounge for the footy or rugby. Get 6 and a bit imperial pints from my 4l and have another ready for more.


Do you just set to 10psi and leave for 24 hrs ? I received the kegs yesterday and hoping to fill for tomorrow. Thankyou


----------



## SnailAle

I was just thinking that I might be better buying a smaller one in the meantime and saving up for a proper setup in the future.


----------



## Grott

Ronwales said:


> Do you just set to 10psi and leave for 24 hrs ? I received the kegs yesterday and hoping to fill for tomorrow. Thankyou


10psi for 24hrs won’t be enough (would be around 3 days) so I’d set it up at 30psi and in the morning turn down to dispensing pressure and take a sample for carbonation. If a bit flat still, give it a shake (with gas connected) for say 15 seconds and put back in the fridge, should be right by time you need it. It’s hard to advise under this situation but should work out ok. Let us know end result.


----------



## Ronwales

SnailAle said:


> I was just thinking that I might be better buying a smaller one in the meantime and saving up for a proper setup in the future.


I guess it depends on space and how much you drin


Grott said:


> 10psi for 24hrs won’t be enough (would be around 3 days) so I’d set it up at 30psi and in the morning turn down to dispensing pressure and take a sample for carbonation. If a bit flat still, give it a shake (with gas connected) for say 15 seconds and put back in the fridge, should be right by time you need it. It’s hard to advise under this situation but should work out ok. Let us know end result.


Thanks mate I will do that. I'll let you know how I go. The hardest part is the damn waiting game.


----------



## Grott

Ronwales said:


> I guess it depends on space and how much you drin
> 
> Thanks mate I will do that. I'll let you know how I go. The hardest part is the damn waiting game.



Forgot to say, when you test carbonation make sure you release the 30psi pressure before setting at dispensing pressure. And the wait continues


----------



## Ronwales

Grott said:


> Forgot to say, when you test carbonation make sure you release the 30psi pressure before setting at dispensing pressure. And the wait continues


Had too much carbonation I think these kegs might be made more for already carbonated beer or something. Or maybe my beer was too warm when I put in keg..


----------



## Grott

Sorry to hear, just release pressure every now and again to settle it down. Temperature does play a bigger part with these mini kegs.


----------



## Ronwales

Grott said:


> Sorry to hear, just release pressure every now and again to settle it down. Temperature does play a bigger part with these mini kegs.


I think I'll just carbonate in keg and carbonate from there. Im still drinking this frothy goodness, just takes a little bit of time. Do you normally force carbonate In your mini kegs?


----------



## Grott

Yes. I chill my 4l mini with beer, down to about 2 degrees then hook up to 30psi and lay keg on its side and roll back and forth for 60 seconds (you can hear the co2 bubbling). Return to fridge and after an hour or so release pressure and hook up to dispensing pressure. I do this early am and it’s all good for pm.


----------



## Ronwales

Grott said:


> Yes. I chill my 4l mini with beer, down to about 2 degrees then hook up to 30psi and lay keg on its side and roll back and forth for 60 seconds (you can hear the co2 bubbling). Return to fridge and after an hour or so release pressure and hook up to dispensing pressure. I do this early am and it’s all good for pm.


I just pulled apart and washed keg and realized the flow control was missing.. that would explain it.


----------



## Grott

Now we know as I was puzzled as to why it hadn’t worked for you. Good one


----------



## SnailAle

How long does the beer in these mini kegs last once carbonated generally?


----------



## homebrewnewb

keep it at serving temperature and you can safely say a very long time.
i've left kegs out at ambient for over a year, gassed and serverd and they were still as good as the sample a year ago, changed a bit, some of the more delicate hops aromas and yeast phenols pissed off but providing there is no sleeper infection in there, if you keep it at a low serving temp, you're safe.


----------



## Grott

I use a 19l keg of uncarbonated ale (purged with co2) to use in transferring to my 4l mini kegs. The 19l is kept at ambient temperature and the mini once filled (close transfer) is chilled then forced carbonated. The 19l could be 10 to 12 weeks before empty depending on requirements. No problems to date and shouldn’t be with top cleaning and sanitation procedures.


----------



## Gmoney

I've started my own mini kegging set up in a mini fridge. My fridge is too small for a 19l corny so the mini kegs do nicely.


----------



## Ronwales

Grott said:


> Yes. I chill my 4l mini with beer, down to about 2 degrees then hook up to 30psi and lay keg on its side and roll back and forth for 60 seconds (you can hear the co2 bubbling). Return to fridge and after an hour or so release pressure and hook up to dispensing pressure. I do this early am and it’s all good for pm.


How much head space do you leave in keg for co2? Cheers sorry for all these questions


----------



## Grott

No problems with questions. I leave about 10 to12mm from bottom of mini keg neck.


----------



## Grott

Gmoney said:


> View attachment 108551
> 
> 
> I've started my own mini kegging set up in a mini fridge. My fridge is too small for a 19l corny so the mini kegs do nicely.


I use sets of 9.5l and 12l kegs for a 23l brew (easy for me to handle, clean, mix and match brews in the fridge. Meaning can have 4 different brews in the fridge).


----------



## Pugdog1

Grott do you prefer the 9.5 cornys or the minis


----------



## Grott

Yes and no. Sounds funny but in summer sitting outside the 9.5l in an esk setup is handy for a couple of you but the 4l mini are great for a solo session. (But then again so are the 9.5 ). Also I can fit the 2 x 4l in the fridge with the others.


----------



## Pugdog1

Trying to convince the wife I need kegs and am thinking of going a 5L and a 19L to start with and add onto it as I go. I feel like a keg of raspberry vodka and soda would go a long way in my favour also.


----------



## Grott

Pugdog1 said:


> Trying to convince the wife I need kegs and am thinking of going a 5L and a 19L to start with and add onto it as I go. I feel like a keg of raspberry vodka and soda would go a long way in my favour also.


The 5l is a good choice and would prefer to my 4l ones. 2 x 5l will fit into a 33l esky which BigW have on special for $29. Easy set up with tap etc.


----------



## Pugdog1

Grott said:


> The 5l is a good choice and would prefer to my 4l ones. 2 x 5l will fit into a 33l esky which BigW have on special for $29. Easy set up with tap etc.


If i was to get them and use in my kitchen fridge which tap/gas setup is the most suitable? Probably needs to be a bit robust to take a few bumps etc


----------



## Grott

No affiliation with either but look at sponsors Ikegger site and Beerkat sites. Beerkat I know offers 10% off for members. You will need the tap ( but to cut costs at first, could go with the picnic tap set up ), mini regulator and I’d go with the soda stream adaptor as bulbs work out expensive and get a soda stream cylinder.


----------



## Brewnicorn

Grott said:


> No affiliation with either but look at sponsors Ikegger site and Beerkat sites. Beerkat I know offers 10% off for members. You will need the tap ( but to cut costs at first, could go with the picnic tap set up ), mini regulator and I’d go with the soda stream adaptor as bulbs work out expensive and get a soda stream cylinder.



Both sites are crackers. I’ve spoken with the Beerkat folks and they are great with advice and if you’re going to order a few things they may look after you with shipping/split orders. iKegger also offer the Afterpay 4 payment split option - no interest, just a lay-by style operation, but you get the goods upfront. No affiliation with either operation - they just look after people who love beer. Good luck! [emoji3]


----------



## Ronwales

Brewnicorn said:


> Both sites are crackers. I’ve spoken with the Beerkat folks and they are great with advice and if you’re going to order a few things they may look after you with shipping/split orders. iKegger also offer the Afterpay 4 payment split option - no interest, just a lay-by style operation, but you get the goods upfront. No affiliation with either operation - they just look after people who love beer. Good luck! [emoji3]


Before purchasing my beerkat I watched heaps of ikegger youtube vids. They look almost identical. I could be wrong but I think there both the same apart from the logo.


----------



## kaiserben

Grott said:


> I’d go with the soda stream adaptor as bulbs work out expensive and get a soda stream cylinder.



I'm tossing up between soda stream or a 2.6kg CO2 cylinder from a LHBS. What are people's thoughts on which way to go? 

I think I'm going to end up with at least 1 x 19L corny, plus a couple of ~9.5L mini kegs, and maybe a couple of smaller mini kegs ~4L or 5L depending on how it all fits in my fridges.


----------



## earle

Soda stream is great for portable setups but you'll pay about $20 for an exchange where you'll pay about $25 to fill the 2.6kg. If you can afford the 2.6kg go that way, you'll make back the difference in cheaper gas in the long run.


----------



## Grott

Earle is spot on. (I mentioned the soda stream vs bulbs as I believe Ronwales is looking at a mini keg setup system to start with).


----------



## EalingDrop

Ronwales said:


> Before purchasing my beerkat I watched heaps of ikegger youtube vids. They look almost identical. I could be wrong but I think there both the same apart from the logo.


Yup, all the same. Whatever ideas you have, they're probably trying it out so you don't have to. Until I finish off making the mini bar, my temporary solution is lying down a 5L keg in the kitchen fridge as per their tip.

No affiliation etc... there's 10L ones from ikegger. Looks like it's the same diameter as the 5L, so you could grow the system slowly and utilise the existing accessories.


----------



## EalingDrop

Keg is given a booster Co2 charge every now and then, which is all it takes to finish off a 5L. Absolutely love the Intertap flow control tap which helps massively.


----------



## Ronwales

EalingDrop said:


> Keg is given a booster Co2 charge every now and then, which is all it takes to finish off a 5L. Absolutely love the Intertap flow control tap which helps massively.


What psi do you carbonate your keg? That's a great way to sit the keg, means I don't need to remove the shelves


----------



## Pugdog1

I've seen some that fit in the fridge door itself where you sit the milk. That would be ideal


----------



## EalingDrop

About 10 psi (based on the mini reg reading). Only works if you have the Flow control tap though. Maybe for some of you guys, but even the 4L stretches out the milk cradle, but the height including the spear head plus disconnect is so tall that the cheese compartment had to go, and that's not going to happen in my household.


----------



## Ronwales

EalingDrop said:


> About 10 psi (based on the mini reg reading). Only works if you have the Flow control tap though. Maybe for some of you guys, but even the 4L stretches out the milk cradle, but the height including the spear head plus disconnect is so tall that the cheese compartment had to go, and that's not going to happen in my household.


10psi on already carbed beer and it's ready to go after that? Or do you let sit for a while


----------



## EalingDrop

Apologies, I meant to say already carbonated beer (2.5 Co2 vol, Hefeweizen). 10 PSI is for dispensing. No waiting, the flow control is adjusted accordingly.


----------



## Pugdog1

EalingDrop said:


> About 10 psi (based on the mini reg reading). Only works if you have the Flow control tap though. Maybe for some of you guys, but even the 4L stretches out the milk cradle, but the height including the spear head plus disconnect is so tall that the cheese compartment had to go, and that's not going to happen in my household.


Mine is more likely to be like yours I wish I could fit them standing


----------



## Ronwales

EalingDrop said:


> Apologies, I meant to say already carbonated beer (2.5 Co2 vol, Hefeweizen). 10 PSI is for dispensing. No waiting, the flow control is adjusted accordingly.


Do you carbonate in keg? I'm still new to this I got mine last week. Thanks


----------



## peekaboo_jones

I naturally carbonate mine in the keg. About 2.5-3.0g sugar per L, then just use sodastream cylinders to dispense


----------



## EalingDrop

peekaboo_jones said:


> I naturally carbonate mine in the keg. About 2.5-3.0g sugar per L, then just use sodastream cylinders to dispense


All natural here too. I stop trying to carbonate to style, preferring to stay on the lower end of CO2 vol, which is approx 90g of dextrose per 20L. Pretty much hit the sweet spot between mini keg/dispense/carbonation level.

Somewhere in this thread I think force carbonation was mentioned, otherwise I think ikegger have it on their YouTube channel.


----------



## koshari

is it just me or do these mini regulators suck, i have a couple and both ten to drift up to 20psi regardless how low i adjust them,


----------



## Mardoo

One of the batches has issues, the ones with no serial numbers. Where did you get them?


----------



## koshari

Mardoo said:


> One of the batches has issues, the ones with no serial numbers. Where did you get them?


yum cha special from china


----------



## Grott

If you don’t have a none return valve connected I believe if the pressure in the keg is greater than your co2 pressure setting then the gauge will go up. This could happen with a slightly over carbonated keg.


----------



## Ronwales

Grott said:


> Yes and no. Sounds funny but in summer sitting outside the 9.5l in an esk setup is handy for a couple of you but the 4l mini are great for a solo session. (But then again so are the 9.5 ). Also I can fit the 2 x 4l in the fridge with the others.


After trying the kegs again I must say I'm extremely happy with the product , cheers for the help buddy.


----------



## Grott

No problems, glad all working well.


----------



## Coalminer

Mardoo said:


> One of the batches has issues, the ones with no serial numbers. Where did you get them?



Hmmm. I had 3 faulty regs from BB2. Could not adjust them properly. They did not have serial numbers.
Just had them replaced with 3 new ones from ATHB.
Have only tried one and it works smoothly, no problems
None of the replacements have serial numbers


----------



## Grott

Mine was from BBIV, has no serial # and has worked well from day one. I have found the units to be sensitive and adjustments delicate to some degree but once realised with some patience it has been fine. By that I mean if I want to set at say 12psi then slight movement of the dial, then wait a bit for pressure reading to settle.
Note, these regs do not like the gas supply attached with the reg pressure dial on, always have it off otherwise damage can occur.


----------



## Pugdog1

When's BBV coming [emoji6]


----------



## Grott

I guess when someone is prepared to organise and coordinate it. Fair bit of work, particularly if problems with product quality. Ask poor Zorco.


----------



## Pugdog1

I'll be keen . Would myself but just did a bulk buy for one of my other hobbies and that's enough for a while. Lotttsss of work


----------



## Mardoo

I’ll be selling my two 5L ones with all the bits once I get the replacements - once I confirm they’re OK of course. During the to-ing and fro-ing I found another solution. Don’t have them yet though, but will post a thread when I do.


----------



## Pugdog1

Mardoo said:


> I’ll be selling my two 5L ones with all the bits once I get the replacements - once I confirm they’re OK of course. During the to-ing and fro-ing I found another solution. Don’t have them yet though, but will post a thread when I do.


I might very well be interested. Don't live anywhere near Toowoomba by any chance?


----------



## Mardoo

SE Melbourne


----------



## Pugdog1

Dang


----------



## Ronwales

EalingDrop said:


> All natural here too. I stop trying to carbonate to style, preferring to stay on the lower end of CO2 vol, which is approx 90g of dextrose per 20L. Pretty much hit the sweet spot between mini keg/dispense/carbonation level.
> 
> Somewhere in this thread I think force carbonation was mentioned, otherwise I think ikegger have it on their YouTube channel.


I am planning on bottling most of my beer as I only have 7litres of keg space would that amount of dextrose be ok for both? Thanks


----------



## goatchop41

Ronwales said:


> I am planning on bottling most of my beer as I only have 7litres of keg space would that amount of dextrose be ok for both? Thanks



Just look up a carbonation calculator online. Then you can suit it to what you want


----------



## Jack of all biers

Grott said:


> Note, these regs do not like the gas supply attached with the reg pressure dial on, always have it off otherwise damage can occur.



Can you explain grott? Do you mean when it's disconnected from the keg and not being used, or do you mean you've encountered damage from leaving it on when connected to the keg. Mine hasn't been used that much, but when connected to the keg I thought the idea was leave it at serving pressure.


----------



## EalingDrop

The portable version has provided some insights into the permanent one for the courtyard.

2 x 5L mini kegs fits into a bar fridge and a few bottled beers on the shelf. 2 x Flow control taps. 2 way gas splitter. Soda Stream to push the grog out at 8psi. Beer line is about 1m which doesn't affect the overall beer temp in the glass, interesting to see how this system copes with warmer weather. Info mostly gained from watching this thread and others on AHB forum. [emoji2]


----------



## EalingDrop

Ronwales said:


> I am planning on bottling most of my beer as I only have 7litres of keg space would that amount of dextrose be ok for both? Thanks


I bottle and keg as well, except I'm Keg centric and benefit from better foam control by using less dextrose. TBH I have less gushers with my bottles too. I've not had a very good experience with CO vol calculators.


----------



## Grott

Jack of all biers said:


> Can you explain grott? Do you mean when it's disconnected from the keg and not being used, or do you mean you've encountered damage from leaving it on when connected to the keg. Mine hasn't been used that much, but when connected to the keg I thought the idea was leave it at serving pressure.



Only when you screw the Soda Stream bottle onto the gauge to use, the gauge should be off. When not using the unit I unscrew the Soda Stream bottle so as the is no pressure thus not loose any gas if there be a small leak, again the gauge is to be off when reinstalling.


----------



## Gmoney

Mardoo said:


> I’ll be selling my two 5L ones with all the bits once I get the replacements - once I confirm they’re OK of course. During the to-ing and fro-ing I found another solution. Don’t have them yet though, but will post a thread when I do.



Let me know when you are ready as I might be interested.


----------



## Grott

Mardoo said:


> I’ll be selling my two 5L ones with all the bits once I get the replacements - once I confirm they’re OK of course. During the to-ing and fro-ing I found another solution. Don’t have them yet though, but will post a thread when I do.


Are these faulty with he “metal taste” syndrome?


----------



## Mardoo

Yep. So far reports are that the replacements don’t have the issue.


----------



## goatchop41

Grott said:


> Are these faulty with he “metal taste” syndrome?



Well he said that he is getting replacements, so no they won't be when he gets them


----------



## Grott

Yes the replacements will be ok, just asking if the ones he was going to sell had the metal taste fault.


----------



## knot_gillty

Grott said:


> Yes the replacements will be ok, just asking if the ones he was going to sell had the metal taste fault.



I think goatchop is trying to say when he sells the thread will read “all good, no metal taste”... haha. Having a stir I think.


----------



## Mardoo

Grott said:


> Yes the replacements will be ok, just asking if the ones he was going to sell had the metal taste fault.


No, I am not selling the bad ones. I wouldn't do that. I am selling the replacement ones once I get them and confirm they have no issues. I have a pale lager in the keg waiting for the chance to sacrifice itself to the gods.


----------



## Grott

Ha ha . Could be interested as well Mardoo along with Gmoney who has made first reference.


----------



## Ronwales

Has anyone tried the carbonation caps? Are they worth buying?


----------



## goatchop41

Ronwales said:


> Has anyone tried the carbonation caps? Are they worth buying?



Haven't tried them myself, but I'd be suss on them without any sort of PRV.
Personally, I would just spend the extra $ and get a ball lock head. Can still force carb with it, but have the option for using a tap on it too (and have the PRV on it). I just don't see the point of the carb caps


----------



## Milk-lizard84

Anyone have any problems with the out posts on there mini kegs? I can't connect a beer disconnect to save myself. I've tried 4 different ones to no avail. The machining on the outpost compared to one from my 19l keg is different. The mini keg one is the top one on the pic.
I've also attached a pic at my attempt at connecting beer disconnect.


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

Are they the wrong way around? Try the beer disconnect on the other post and try a gas one on that post


----------



## Liam_snorkel

EalingDrop said:


> Beer line is about 1m which doesn't affect the overall beer temp in the glass, interesting to see how this system copes with warmer weather.


if it doesn't - grab some 'k-flex' pipe insulation from the big green shed and run the line through that. Should act as sufficient lagging in warmer weather. Works for my portable setup in brisbane.


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Milk-lizard84 said:


> Anyone have any problems with the out posts on there mini kegs? I can't connect a beer disconnect to save myself. I've tried 4 different ones to no avail. The machining on the outpost compared to one from my 19l keg is different. The mini keg one is the top one on the pic.
> I've also attached a pic at my attempt at connecting beer disconnect.


Yes I've had a issues with the posts also.
No real dramas getting the disconnects on but getting them off is extremely difficult. 

I've tried both gas and liquid thinking they were mixed up bit that way certainly doesn't work.
It's a machine issue with mine at closer inspection too.

Are these the same posts as regular 5 gallon soda syrup posts?


----------



## EalingDrop

Was thinking that this morning! Can't argue with that if it works in Brissie, Im in Sydney.

The kids swimming noodle has survived the chop again[emoji1] .

Thanks LS


----------



## Milk-lizard84

peekaboo_jones said:


> Yes I've had a issues with the posts also.
> No real dramas getting the disconnects on but getting them off is extremely difficult.
> 
> I've tried both gas and liquid thinking they were mixed up bit that way certainly doesn't work.
> It's a machine issue with mine at closer inspection too.
> 
> Are these the same posts as regular 5 gallon soda syrup posts?


I actually switched the posts around last night and it worked a treat. Great unit but yeah the posts definitely aren't machined correctly. I got it working which im happy with though.


----------



## kaiserben

I've got some bottles of Belgian Dubbel that just didn't carb up properly. 

Could I put them into a mini keg then give them more carbonation? I've only got one of these manual CO2 injectors https://www.ikegger.com/products/co2-injector-manual-push-button-style


----------



## Batz

Milk-lizard84 said:


> t. Great unit but yeah the posts definitely aren't machined correctly.




I bet nobody has had a problem with stainless disconnects. I have found them much better than the plastic ones for mini kegs.



Lets ask who has stainless disconnects on their mini kegs and has had a problem getting them on or off??


----------



## Grott

Batz said:


> I bet nobody has had a problem with stainless disconnects. I have found them much better than the plastic ones for mini kegs.View attachment 109178
> 
> Lets ask who has stainless disconnects on their mini kegs and has had a problem getting them on or off??


No problems but keg lube a big help in reducing stiffness. Some don’t realise that to get disconnects off it is easier to push down on the top of the disconnect and lift the spring loaded part of the connector rather than just lifting it.


----------



## EalingDrop

Batz said:


> I bet nobody has had a problem with stainless disconnects. I have found them much better than the plastic ones for mini kegs.View attachment 109178
> 
> Lets ask who has stainless disconnects on their mini kegs and has had a problem getting them on or off??


I agree that getting them on/off is a breeze, you really feel the nice snap lock.

If you have a MFL disconnect, they do leak at the point where the swivel barb is connected to the MFL. I managed to get the Nylon flared olive washer from the folks at brewmart in Perth who are great because they're happy to use standard post and only 30 cents each.


----------



## Gmoney

I've got a little problem with my mini keg. I've got a 2l with a Pale Ale sitting in it. I "bottle conditioned" it with its normal lid on. After a few weeks i stuck it in the fridge for a week. Unfortunately I can't get the lid off. I don't have a shifter big enough. Any thoughts on how I can open it up without destroying it?


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Maybe try opening it with a Tupperware Jar grip opener. It's a rubber grip mat thingy, they work awesome for regular jars I reckon it'll work with the mini keg flat lid


----------



## Gmoney

peekaboo_jones said:


> Maybe try opening it with a Tupperware Jar grip opener. It's a rubber grip mat thingy, they work awesome for regular jars I reckon it'll work with the mini keg flat lid



I've got one of them and no luck. Also tried banging it on the table and hitting it softy with a hammer.


----------



## peteru

Try to put a little bit of pressure on the lid from the top as you try to turn it, to counter the pressure from inside.


----------



## Andy_27

Duck down to Bunnings and grab some vice grips for about $25.


----------



## Pnutapper

Gmoney said:


> I've got a little problem with my mini keg. I've got a 2l with a Pale Ale sitting in it. I "bottle conditioned" it with its normal lid on. After a few weeks i stuck it in the fridge for a week. Unfortunately I can't get the lid off. I don't have a shifter big enough. Any thoughts on how I can open it up without destroying it?


This may be a silly question as I am not familiar with the mini kegs, but is the vessel pressurised? Have you tried letting out the head pressure before attempting to unscrew?


----------



## Grott

Pnutapper said:


> This may be a silly question as I am not familiar with the mini kegs, but is the vessel pressurised? Have you tried letting out the head pressure before attempting to unscrew?


It seems the keg has been naturally carbonated and the plain cap put on, no relieve valve etc. Multi grips would be my choice.


----------



## Pugdog1

Multi grips and caution


----------



## TheSumOfAllBeers

Push down as you unscrew


----------



## Gmoney

Multi grips and caution were the winner. I'm glad I was able to liberate the Pale Ale trapped inside. Thank you to all for your support


----------



## Grott

Great, did it carbonate ok?


----------



## Gmoney

Carbed up nicely. The cap just needed something stronger than my office hands.


----------



## peteru

The screw cap is not a bright idea. You should really get one with a PRV if you are going to have contents under pressure.


----------



## Grott

Agree however should not be a real problem if not over carbonated just like a bottle (no PRV there)


----------



## Gmoney

Grott said:


> Agree however should not be a real problem if not over carbonated just like a bottle (no PRV there)



That was my thinking. There was no issue of over carbonation so I figured I wouldn't need a cap with a PRV. I might try it again this weekend.


----------



## Grott

I’d just put a bit of keg lube on the thread and cap seal and tighten by hand. When ready to open you should be able to just push down and undo, failing that you know the grips work.


----------



## Coalminer

Beerkat sell caps with either a PRV or gas post 

http://www.beerkat.com.au/product-category/accessories/


----------



## Grott

Actually for 22 bucks the cap with the gas post would be best value as you can still relieve the pressure but if extra or total carbonation is required it will do the job.


----------



## earle

Gmoney said:


> That was my thinking. There was no issue of over carbonation so I figured I wouldn't need a cap with a PRV. I might try it again this weekend.


The difference is that the mini keg and cap are both stainless steel, unlike the bottle and its cap. SS threads has a tendency to bind. Lube as suggested by Grott would hopefully make a bit f difference.


----------



## Batz

I've been a bit slack but finally finished my party box ready for Christmas.
Two kegs so just about a carton of two mixed beers, should prove popular. [/ATTACH]


----------



## Zorco

Batz, please put yourself down for hosting a case swap.... would love a resort retreat venue


----------



## Grott

And a pool?


----------



## peteru

Nice. CO2 bottle plus regulator is always a pain in the butt. Heavy and bulky :-(


----------



## EalingDrop

Batz said:


> View attachment 110109
> I've been a bit slack but finally finished my party box ready for Christmas.
> Two kegs so just about a carton of two mixed beers, should prove popular. [/ATTACH] View attachment 110108
> View attachment 110110


Nice touch with the long beer line for easy keg swaps


----------



## Batz

Zorco said:


> Batz, please put yourself down for hosting a case swap.... would love a resort retreat venue



Perhaps not a resort, and no pool, snakes and scary biting stuff no problem.
Yes time I did another case swap here. I've been out of the loop a while.

Batz


----------



## Pnutapper

Nice nut and stem on the reg, Batz!


----------



## Batz

Pnutapper said:


> Nice nut and stem on the reg, Batz!



Can't argue with that, and thank you good Sir.


----------



## Pnutapper

Batz said:


> Can't argue with that, and thank you good Sir.



Was a little worried the stem may have been a little short if it was a rear entry input.


----------



## Coldspace

Nice job, nice sticker adds the pro touch 

Is that esky from Kmart ?


----------



## Batz

Coldspace said:


> Nice job, nice sticker adds the pro touch
> 
> Is that esky from Kmart ?



Yes it was a clearance item at K-Mart, $25.00 I think. Someone here posted them while there where still a few around.


----------



## Zeener

Where does everybody buy the C02 cartridges from? Anybody know of any good deals going about? Thanks


----------



## barls

fine whip is where i got my last one


----------



## Grott

38gm for $4.95 is a special with them at the moment


----------



## EalingDrop

Cheapest I know is this at $1.75 each (not including delivery).


----------



## Batz

http://www.finewhip.com.au/buy/12g-co2-threaded-cartridges-x-50/3811825_50

$1.11 each, well as long as you want 50. last time I bought them they were in lots of 30.


----------



## Zeener

Thanks gents!


----------



## bingggo

I was wondering about tips for handling minikeg dispensing on their sides? I’ve got a 5 litre one with double ball post spear. Do you need a gas post with a check valve built in - I’m using a mini reg with bulbs. What’s a good tap to make balanced dispensing easy - I’ve been using a picnic on a 1m line but it’s a bit fiddly. How do you avoid yeast pickup - i was thinking about trying to make the dip tube float 

Merry Christmas!


----------



## Grott

Definetly get a non return valve. A tap connected directly to the beer post works well and spring loaded makes it easier. Unless fermenting in the keg any yeast should be sucked up in the first 250ml. Most of us drink and enjoy.


----------



## bingggo

Thanks, do I need a flow control tap? If carb pressure is 12 psi, do you vent and turn down the reg to serve?


----------



## Grott

If your going to buy a tap then yes, I had a normal tap and bought the flow control adaptor to make things easier and maintain the dispensing pressure. If you carbonate the keg at 12psi and then reduce the pressure to serve, your carbonation will drop and the beer will get flatter therefore the flow control tap allows the pressure to stay at 12psi.


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Has anyone used one of the premium mini regulators with a large (2.6kg or 6.0kg) gas co2 bottle? 
Wonder if it will work ok?
I've got two of the mini regs and using one splitting the gas (sodastream 400g) for 2x5L mini kegs in a fridge/Esky and I've just recently bought my first 19L corny and using another sodastream and the mini reg with that one.


----------



## Jack of all biers

peekaboo_jones said:


> Has anyone used one of the premium mini regulators with a large (2.6kg or 6.0kg) gas co2 bottle?
> Wonder if it will work ok?
> I've got two of the mini regs and using one splitting the gas (sodastream 400g) for 2x5L mini kegs in a fridge/Esky and I've just recently bought my first 19L corny and using another sodastream and the mini reg with that one.



I haven't, but don't see why it wouldn't work. The problem will be with fitting the reg to the bottle (problem being expense/hassle of obtaining the parts). Let us know how you go and if it's possible. (possible to get the parts).


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Will do. There is a great pnumatic shop near me and I've bought some fitting from them before to convert the mini reg swivel to a Barb fitting. 
I might drop in tomorrow


----------



## hotmelt

peekaboo_jones said:


> Has anyone used one of the premium mini regulators with a large (2.6kg or 6.0kg) gas co2 bottle?
> Wonder if it will work ok?
> I've got two of the mini regs and using one splitting the gas (sodastream 400g) for 2x5L mini kegs in a fridge/Esky and I've just recently bought my first 19L corny and using another sodastream and the mini reg with that one.



I added a barb to my reg so I could use it to carb a keg while dispensing from another.It was the only one they had in (Auto 1)and wasn't a perfect fit,so had to run over the thread with a die for a better fit.




Or you could use this which wasn't available at the time.
http://www.beerkat.com.au/product/t30-gas-bottle-adapter/


----------



## Wobbly74

peekaboo_jones said:


> Has anyone used one of the premium mini regulators with a large (2.6kg or 6.0kg) gas co2 bottle?
> Wonder if it will work ok?
> I've got two of the mini regs and using one splitting the gas (sodastream 400g) for 2x5L mini kegs in a fridge/Esky and I've just recently bought my first 19L corny and using another sodastream and the mini reg with that one.


I used one with a full sized bottle adapter for a short while when I was sorting out my full sized reg and it seemed to work fine.

Unrelated to that, my mini reg has gone out of calibration a while ago and reads about 3-4psi disconnected - anyone know how to manually adjust the dial calibration?


----------



## jimmysuperlative

[email protected] said:


> Thats an inlet adaptor to fit 74g C02 - Normally airgun cylinders.
> We have soda stream adaptors that fit the inlet adaptor so you can use SS gas
> 
> 
> Hahaha - thanks guys didn't realise you had all replied.



I think I've lost my paintball adaptor???... I ordered a soda stream adaptor for my 5L beerkat ages ago and I just tried to use ...but no paintball adaptor fitting

Do I contact the BK website to order one? I can't see them listed seperately on the site.
ATM all I've got is a screw in catridge connector.


----------



## jimmysuperlative

jimmysuperlative said:


> I think I've lost my paintball adaptor???... I ordered a soda stream adaptor for my 5L beerkat ages ago and I just tried to use ...but no paintball adaptor fitting
> 
> Do I contact the BK website to order one? I can't see them listed seperately on the site.
> ATM all I've got is a screw in catridge connector.
> View attachment 110903



Sorted! Thanks BEERKAT


----------



## bingggo

What are people’s cleaning approach to the double ended spear? Do you take off the posts and dunk in sodium perc, line and sanitise after each 5L, or... 

The manual talks about tightening the nut on the underneath of the spear for the beer post. Is that something to take off during cleaning?

How often do you replace the silicon dip tube?

Cheers,
B


----------



## bingggo

And yet another question 

I’m having trouble with my double ender pressure relief valve. The 5L keg kept losing pressure when left at 12psi and I found the prv was giving off a bubble every second or so when I upended the keg into a water bath. I took off the prv, replaced the o-ring, lubed the ring, replaced it. Still happens. Sometimes it seems to stop if I release a little pressure, but not reliably as sometimes I come back to find the keg flat. The keg is stored sideways, but the gas is forcing its way out - not the liquid.

Any suggestions? Guess I need a new prv thingy.

B


----------



## EalingDrop

bingggo said:


> What are people’s cleaning approach to the double ended spear? Do you take off the posts and dunk in sodium perc, line and sanitise after each 5L, or...
> 
> The manual talks about tightening the nut on the underneath of the spear for the beer post. Is that something to take off during cleaning?
> 
> How often do you replace the silicon dip tube?
> 
> Cheers,
> B


Keeping the spear head, dip tube and tap together I run hot water through the beer tap until the beer smell is gone then give the spear head a quick scrub with a tooth brush. 

The keg can be cleaned with a demi john brush (I don't know if we sell it here, as I brought that back from London). Works well cleaning the top 'cone' bit of the keg as well as the floor, but if I'm lazy it's hot water with a bit of detergent and a good shake/rinse until there's no beer smell.

No detectable effects on the next batch of beer as expected, so I'm sticking to this routine. The trick is to wash it as soon as you finish the beer and not let it dry out.


----------



## Grott

EalingDrop said:


> The trick is to wash it as soon as you finish the beer and not let it dry out.


 Spot on, I rinse keg straight away, put in a teaspoon of sodium percarbonate and add some hot water. Put lid on and shake the keg. I then put some pressure in the keg and attach an open line (or picnic tap set up) to the beer out post so cleaner flushes through. Release keg pressure, drop lid seal in the keg, dangle lid in keg opening and fill to top with water. Leave min of of an hour but usually until the next day. (I pour into washing machine to utilise the water) rinse keg/ drain and then sanitise when ready to reuse.


----------



## bingggo

Thanks folks. You’ve had no problems with your prv leaking?


----------



## Jack of all biers

No mate. When you pulled it apart and put new o-rings on did you look in the recess in the head itself. Look for gunk or manufacturing shavings of metal or scrapes on the recess itself. It could be the machining of the head that could be causing the o-ring to not seal properly. Also did you looked at the spring and ensure there is good resistance? Unlikely, but worth a look.


----------



## bingggo

Where do you folks get replacement dip tube from


----------



## phildo

LHBS but if you're happy to use vinyl you might be able to get some tubing with a small enough ID


----------



## Coalminer

I use standard 6mm ID x 10mm OD beerline. It will screw onto the spigot easily


----------



## phildo

That would be much better than the silicone hose that comes with the kegs. I found that the silicone stained and split easily


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Grott said:


> If your going to buy a tap then yes, I had a normal tap and bought the flow control adaptor to make things easier and maintain the dispensing pressure. If you carbonate the keg at 12psi and then reduce the pressure to serve, your carbonation will drop and the beer will get flatter therefore the flow control tap allows the pressure to stay at 12psi.



You can use the flow control taps but having uses a lot of flow control taps and also this new device I would seriously consider getting a flow control ball lock disconnect instead. These look like this:

https://www.kegland.com.au/flow-control-ball-lock-disconnect-flow-restrictor.html

From a cost perspective it's similar to the flow control tap but they do function significantly better as a flow control device. We only just developed this product so it would good to get your feedback on the product.


----------



## altone

KegLand-com-au said:


> From a cost perspective it's similar to the flow control tap but they do function significantly better as a flow control device. We only just developed this product.



Anyone see an issue here? new untested product is significantly better?

Don't get me wrong, I'll probably buy and try one of those units when I can, but the statement seems a bit off.

I've been happy with all my KL purchases so maybe it will be better.


----------



## trhr

Hi All,

If anyone still has any of these kegs and the blind welds aren't too bad, I've found you can clean with TSP and then do a redneck home passivation and it's much better.
I'd do multiple cleans with TSP first, seems to help. This link is useful for diy: http://beersmith.com/blog/2017/01/0...-beer-brewing-equipment-to-prevent-corrosion/

If you've got alot of black coming out of the keg or pretty bad tasting beer after a weeks storage, the welds aren't even close to sanitary and it will keep coming back. 
Suggest cutting the top off for revenge and throwing it out along with the crappy first run regulators.

If the mini keg experience hasn't completely traumatised you, Kegland has some decent robotic welded, passivated ones that will work nicely with our double ball lock heads which are fine.


----------



## Nullnvoid

trhr said:


> Hi All,
> 
> If anyone still has any of these kegs and the blind welds aren't too bad, I've found you can clean with TSP and then do a redneck home passivation and it's much better.
> I'd do multiple cleans with TSP first, seems to help. This link is useful for diy: http://beersmith.com/blog/2017/01/0...-beer-brewing-equipment-to-prevent-corrosion/
> 
> If you've got alot of black coming out of the keg or pretty bad tasting beer after a weeks storage, the welds aren't even close to sanitary and it will keep coming back.
> Suggest cutting the top off for revenge and throwing it out along with the crappy first run regulators.
> 
> If the mini keg experience hasn't completely traumatised you, Kegland has some decent robotic welded, passivated ones that will work nicely with our double ball lock heads which are fine.



Link or smoke signals to your double ball lock heads?


----------



## trhr

I meant the mini keg double ball lock head units that came with the bulk buy. Those, the cheap taps and some of the later regs were the only decent bits in the end.
Kegland have the best price these days (and seems like the best quality): https://www.kegland.com.au/mini-keg-ball-lock-tapping-head-with-silicone-dip-tube.html


----------



## wheat and hops

KegLand-com-au said:


> You can use the flow control taps but having uses a lot of flow control taps and also this new device I would seriously consider getting a flow control ball lock disconnect instead. These look like this:
> 
> https://www.kegland.com.au/flow-control-ball-lock-disconnect-flow-restrictor.html
> 
> From a cost perspective it's similar to the flow control tap but they do function significantly better as a flow control device. We only just developed this product so it would good to get your feedback on the product.



Hello KL,

I've submitted some feedback via the KL website on an order that I received earlier today. Two of the the three KL09041 flow control disconnects that I received have issues. The first one has a rapid steady leak from the top, the second has a less dramatic but still somewhat messy leak from the base. Neither can be used.

The third seems to be functioning as expected so far. It's a new product so I expect there may be some QC / teething issues. I've left details on the report and happy to discuss with your staff.

Apart from a few back ordered HOPs, the rest of the order was delivered to WA in record time. I think I put the order in Wednesday/Thursday and in delivered in Perth first thing Monday Morning, Great work.


----------



## Coalminer

trhr said:


> I meant the mini keg double ball lock head units that came with the bulk buy. Those, the cheap taps and some of the later regs were the only decent bits in the end.
> Kegland have the best price these days (and seems like the best quality): https://www.kegland.com.au/mini-keg-ball-lock-tapping-head-with-silicone-dip-tube.html



Do you know if the Kegland mini keg system has the same threads as the gear from the old bulk buys?


----------



## Nullnvoid

Coalminer said:


> Do you know if the Kegland mini keg system has the same threads as the gear from the old bulk buys?



Yep all the same!


----------



## Coalminer

Nullnvoid said:


> Yep all the same!


Thanks


----------



## fdsaasdf

Can confirm, the KL ball lock head units fit the mini kegs just fine - these mini kegs existed for many years before the AHB bulk buys btw


----------



## ceptic

Hi All, Just wondering how you guys manage your kegs? I have acquired 6 x 8L kegs and 3 x 5L kegs. I have 3 tapping heads and the remaining kegs have the blank caps. Do you just switch the tapping head to the next keg and if so how do you carbonate it beforehand?
Thanks


----------



## ceptic

PS I'm thinking of drilling and tapping the blank caps and putting these 0.3 MPa pressure relief valves in so I can naturally carbonate. 1/8" 1/4" BSP Male 0.3-1.5mpa Brass Air Safety Relief Pressure Release Valve | eBay


----------



## GoodDuck

ceptic said:


> Hi All, Just wondering how you guys manage your kegs? I have acquired 6 x 8L kegs and 3 x 5L kegs. I have 3 tapping heads and the remaining kegs have the blank caps. Do you just switch the tapping head to the next keg and if so how do you carbonate it beforehand?
> Thanks


yes - switching heads is what I would typically do (and then purge head space with CO2)
For carbonating you can get a carbonation cap for the mini kegs.
Not sure if any of the sponsors sell them, but ikegger do.
KEG CARBONATION CAP


----------



## KegLand-com-au

GoodDuck said:


> yes - switching heads is what I would typically do (and then purge head space with CO2)
> For carbonating you can get a carbonation cap for the mini kegs.
> Not sure if any of the sponsors sell them, but ikegger do.
> KEG CARBONATION CAP



We have some reluctance with putting a pressurisable cap on these without PRV. It's only $4 more expensive jut to get the proper ball lock post lid. Is there any reason you wouldn't just us this:








Mini Keg - Ball Lock Tapping Head (with Silicone Dip Tube)


This is the Tapping Head for the KegLand Mini Kegs The thread on these mini kegs is 1inch 16TPI.




www.kegland.com.au


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## ceptic

KegLand-com-au said:


> We have some reluctance with putting a pressurisable cap on these without PRV. It's only $4 more expensive jut to get the proper ball lock post lid. Is there any reason you wouldn't just us this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mini Keg - Ball Lock Tapping Head (with Silicone Dip Tube)
> 
> 
> This is the Tapping Head for the KegLand Mini Kegs The thread on these mini kegs is 1inch 16TPI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kegland.com.au



I have considered getting 6 x tapping heads for $174 plus delivery but I was thinking that for 6 x $5 ($30 plus delivery) I could turn the blank caps into 0.3 bar prv caps. Are you saying KL sells prv caps for $25/unit as I couldn't find them?


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## nic0

ceptic said:


> Hi All, Just wondering how you guys manage your kegs? I have acquired 6 x 8L kegs and 3 x 5L kegs. I have 3 tapping heads and the remaining kegs have the blank caps. Do you just switch the tapping head to the next keg and if so how do you carbonate it beforehand?
> Thanks


I have the 5L fill it and let it chill in the fridge overnight, then set you reg to 16PSI, tip it on its side and rock for 3 minutes, turn the gas off and rock of another 30sec. Let it sit in the fridge for a few hours then if you have flow control taps go nuts if not release the pressure and set your serving pressure. It’s not perfect but it will be pretty close. Use the tapping head, if you carb and then put the blank plate on it will be hard to remove.


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## Oz_UK

Holy thread resurrection, Batman!

And greetings from the UK.

I am posting here to see if anyone is still using these SS mini-kegs. There's not much on any UK forums regarding the kegs and certainly nothing as in depth as this thread that I can find.

By way of an introduction I have been using the cheap "easy kegs" for years and have about 20 on rotation. Four fit in an under counter fridge and I use the top taps (partystar deluxe/beer king 2000) to dispense. Fill from FV with some primings to condition and store until needed. Dispense around half the keg without additional CO2 until the pressure reduces then use a touch of CO2 as & when necessary to keep the beer flowing. I aim for "normal" UK cask beer levels of carbonation, so NOT warm and flat  but a little gentle tingle rather than an aggressive fizz.

I have had too many messy failures recently and have lost my supply of free kegs (new or used once) to replace the kegs as they get old and knackered so have looked as the 5L SS kegs as a natural (but more expensive!) replacement.

I have read the whole thread and it started nice and positively which led me to believe I was on to a winner, but then I hit the pages where people were having problems with poorly finished(?) kegs leading to tainting and discolouration of the beer and faulty regulators. I've come out the other side now but see updates on this thread have tailed off.

I have bought 1 keg so far and filled it on Tuesday before I found this thread so cannot now check the inside. THe outside all appears fine and dandy with no obvious defects.

What I would like to know, as above, is are people still using these and, if so, did the quality issues improve? Is anybody using these successfully for long term storage? My aim is to gradually replace all my old kegs over time and continue priming, conditioning and storing in kegs, and carry on with a 4 tap set up.

Any updates would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Oz (In The Garden of England, on the Other Side of the World.)


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## duncbrewer

@Oz_UK 
So it appears I'm on the other side of this issue you have. I'm wanting to use small kegs for cask conditioning of beer and then dispense via beer engine. I'd thought about using the 5 litre kegs that you have used a lot but they aren't available down here in NZ. Covid and brewery use in the rest of the world has stopped their export here. 
I have one of the 5 litre kegs which I use for carry arounds but it does seem an expensive option and would cost a fortune really for managing 25 litre batches. 

I have been looking around for alternatives and given the low pressure cask type ale have been considering these 








SCA Water Carry Can 10 Litre Blue


SCA Water Carry Can 10 Litre Blue




www.supercheapauto.co.nz





Not sure if Halfords or camping/ caravan supply in UK would have one.

A floating dip tube from the bottom port and an adjust to the lid to fit a corney keg bulkhead fitting ( ideally a gas and liquid post ) would allow closed filling, agreed not that necessary for cask conditioning but useful in some cases, can use a pressure gauge or spunding valve on the post it and inject gas. 

A little bigger than the 5 litre kegs but food grade as water container and could be propped up at an angle so the yeast accumulated below the exit bung. 

It's worth a try. What do you think?


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## clarkejw

Hello,
I've been using the Kegland mini kegs for the past twelve months. I have 2 x 2L, and 2 x 5L, all with tapping heads. I pressure transfer from my cornys kept in a fridge in the shed into the minis to keep inside the house. I find the KL minis to be extremely well- finished, with no deliterious effects on the beer whatsoever.


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## wide eyed and legless

duncbrewer said:


> @Oz_UK
> So it appears I'm on the other side of this issue you have. I'm wanting to use small kegs for cask conditioning of beer and then dispense via beer engine. I'd thought about using the 5 litre kegs that you have used a lot but they aren't available down here in NZ. Covid and brewery use in the rest of the world has stopped their export here.
> I have one of the 5 litre kegs which I use for carry arounds but it does seem an expensive option and would cost a fortune really for managing 25 litre batches.
> 
> I have been looking around for alternatives and given the low pressure cask type ale have been considering these
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SCA Water Carry Can 10 Litre Blue
> 
> 
> SCA Water Carry Can 10 Litre Blue
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.supercheapauto.co.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if Halfords or camping/ caravan supply in UK would have one.
> 
> A floating dip tube from the bottom port and an adjust to the lid to fit a corney keg bulkhead fitting ( ideally a gas and liquid post ) would allow closed filling, agreed not that necessary for cask conditioning but useful in some cases, can use a pressure gauge or spunding valve on the post it and inject gas.
> 
> A little bigger than the 5 litre kegs but food grade as water container and could be propped up at an angle so the yeast accumulated below the exit bung.
> 
> It's worth a try. What do you think?


That's what I use with the hand pump, well not exactly them but the no chill cubes.


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## duncbrewer

@wide eyed and legless 
That's good, the polypin is that just a CO2 reservoir collapsing as the beer is drawn ?
Can't quite work out if the bench is low or the Engine is quite high up. I'm thinking low bench given height of the crates.


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## wide eyed and legless

duncbrewer said:


> @wide eyed and legless
> That's good, the polypin is that just a CO2 reservoir collapsing as the beer is drawn ?
> Can't quite work out if the bench is low or the Engine is quite high up. I'm thinking low bench given height of the crates.


The collapsible water carrier is full of co2, so yes, as the beer is drawn off the vacuum is replaced by co2.


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## S.E

duncbrewer said:


> That's good, the polypin is that just a CO2 reservoir collapsing as the beer is drawn ?


If you don’t have bottled co2 you can fill the bag from your fermenter, just connect it to the airlock or whatever while you are fermenting.


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## S.E

duncbrewer said:


> That's good, the polypin is that just a CO2 reservoir collapsing as the beer is drawn ?


Here is an old thread, Polypins.. Anyone use them? in post #82 I posted a picture and instructions on how to suck all the air out of the bag and fill it with co2 from the fermenter.


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## Oz_UK

Thanks for the replies chaps. I'll see how I get on with my new keg before getting any more. Would prefer to stick to a SS set up for its longevity. 

I thought this might be a bit more lively. Some of the UK forums are not so busy these days as people have presumably drifted over to facebook and the like to pose their questions.

Happy brewing!


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