# Coffee Stout



## floydmeddler (24/3/09)

So... has anyone ever used coffee in a stout recipe? If so, what kind and how much?

Quite interested in this.

Cheers


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## Sully (24/3/09)

floydmeddler said:


> So... has anyone ever used coffee in a stout recipe? If so, what kind and how much?
> 
> Quite interested in this.
> 
> Cheers






Use a good brewed coffee, not instant. 500ml in 23L is a good starting point. Get a coffee plunger (also good for hop tea additions) and buy a coffee you like the taste of, some of the cheaper brands are just rubbish. make it as strong as you would drink it normally.reboiling coffee tends to sour so throw it in at fermenting stage, even better in at secondary. 

throw in a couple of tblspns of cocoa for a mocha stout :icon_drool2: 

Cheers

Sully


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## Supra-Jim (24/3/09)

Sully said:


> Use a good brewed coffee, not instant.



Hmmm i'd hate to try one made with instant coffee, international roast stout anyone? :icon_vomit: 

:icon_cheers: SJ


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## newguy (24/3/09)

Stout and porter. Find a fancy schmancy coffee bean shop and try/smell all of their stock. One or two will jump out at you. Some coffee varieties work well in beer, while others not so much.

I've brewed a strong pot of coffee and added that to the boil - didn't really taste all that good. A friend put some fresh coffee grounds into a bowl of cold water and stored it in the fridge for a couple of days, then strained it and added it to a keg of stout. That was fantastic - one of the best coffee stouts I've ever tasted. I've brewed a coffee porter and added freshly ground coffee to the mash and then also "dry hopped" the beer with more fresh coffee grounds. I added 40g to the mash and used another 40g to "dry hop". This was for a 20l batch. That beer turned out really nice. The coffee added a fresh cinnamon/chocolate note. Can't remember what the name of the coffee was though.

I've read that boiling the beans is bad because tannins will be extracted.


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## Sully (24/3/09)

Just a thought, how would that Chickory Extract go in a Stout/Porter? The stuff thats in the Coffee isle at the supermarkets in the blue & red (?) bottle.


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## RdeVjun (24/3/09)

Great ideas folks! 
Coffee is the next thing on my list to add to stout, cold steep sounds like a winner and chickory sounds interesting Sully. This is the time of year to experiment with these funky additions, I've got a toucan in the fridge just about to go into secondary, as soon as its primary is empty I'm doing another. We all want to be prepared and have a huge inventory of winter warmers!
FYI, I have done star anise before in irish, and loved it. 25 - 50g whole in the boil is a great start. Search these forums for anise, you'll find my efforts (have to go, otherwise I'd look it up myself!)... Cheers.


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## Sully (24/3/09)

I was just up the supermarket for the usual bread n milk, for the hell of it grabbed a bottle of the stuff mentioned earlier, to be precise it is "Bushells Sweetened Coffee & Chickory Essence" - ingredients Sugar - Caramel II - Water - Coffee (6%) - Chickory (0.004%).
I am having a cuppa made with it and it has notable molassess flavour about it, definately reminds me of a stout I had once tried also, but be buggered if I can remember what one though.
Im keen to give it a shot and report back. Although cant drink it as a cuppa, its a bit sweet for me as I dont have sugar in my coffee.
Any thoughts??
PS Sorry for the thread Hijack.. B)


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## captaincleanoff (24/3/09)

there was a coffee recipe in one of the latest BYO magazines.. can post the recipe when I get home tonight if you like. I was thinking of doing it as my next brew.

It tells you exactly what type of coffee to use. There were 2 different kinds from memory


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## Fourstar (24/3/09)

Get your hans on some jaspers coffee, my choice would be the 'Ethiopia Yirgacheffe' This is awesome when used as espresso or milk based espresso coffees. Gives a great honey, caramel flavour with a very smooth nutty palate and smooth bitterness.

_
"Pronounced honey almond tastes, a rich smooth clean body with luscious chocolate hints. From one of the world's top coffee growing regions, our partnership with World Vision is giving these farmers a fair price for their high quality produce, meaning World Vision can begin to withdraw from the area. The fair price provides an incentive for farmers to preserve one of the last remaining old growth forests of Ethiopia."_

Cheers!


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## Sully (24/3/09)

Fourstar said:


> Get your hans on some jaspers coffee, my choice would be the 'Ethiopia Yirgacheffe' This is awesome when used as espresso or milk based espresso coffees. Gives a great honey, caramel flavour with a very smooth nutty palate and smooth bitterness.
> 
> _
> "Pronounced honey almond tastes, a rich smooth clean body with luscious chocolate hints. From one of the world's top coffee growing regions, our partnership with World Vision is giving these farmers a fair price for their high quality produce, meaning World Vision can begin to withdraw from the area. The fair price provides an incentive for farmers to preserve one of the last remaining old growth forests of Ethiopia."_
> ...



Can you get that from the local supermarket? Sounds like a good one :icon_cheers: 


Cheers


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## Fourstar (24/3/09)

Sully said:


> Can you get that from the local supermarket? Sounds like a good one :icon_cheers:
> Cheers



Specialty supermarkets like 'Leo's' will stock it and some continental IGA's do too. Just keep your eyes peeled when you are around speciilty foodstores. FWIW Jaspers offer online ordering... their coffe isn't cheap but if you are happy spending $3 on a coffee at the local cafe` why not spend a few bucks on some decent beans for the coffee you make at home.... much like our brewing. 1/2 kilo costs around $25 bucks from memory

www.jaspercoffee.com


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## drsmurto (24/3/09)

Since Pomo is shying away from this one i will add my 2 c. h34r: 

You dont _need_ to add either coffee or chocolate to a stout. I am not against you doing so but if you want those flavours you can easily get them from the malt.

Give Warrens 4 shades of stout a go.

Roasted barley, carafa, pale choc, amber. Loads of coffee and chocolate. :icon_drool2: 

I bulked it up to OG 1.056 and used NZ green bullet and ringwood yeast.

Best stout i have ever made bar none. 

Reminds me, next batch i make will send a bottle your way Wazza. :icon_cheers:


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## Adamt (24/3/09)

Indeed Smurto...

However, if you want to add coffee to a stout (or anything to a beer) and are not sure how much... experiment with a commercial or other homebrewed stout, and add small amounts of coffee until you know how much you like per glass, then scale up.


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## kook (24/3/09)

I used either 80g or 100g (I can't remember) of coarse crushed (fresh) beans to 21L of oatmeal stout in secondary. Left it for a week and filtered.

Worked very well - coffee flavour is there, but not so strong that it overpowers other flavours.

This is the same method that Terrapin use for their Wake 'n' Bake Stout.


edit - BTW the coffee was 24/7 Blend from Five Senses Coffee.


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## Fermented (24/3/09)

+1 on the Yirgacheffe. Another that has a good robust flavour is Harrar. 

If you want more 'funk' try Monsooned Malabar. It spends the monsoon season lying in open sided shed, kinda like floor malting, and takes on the aroma of surrounding area. Indian jungle, anyone?  

I buy whole beans from Forsyths in Naremburn for $34 / kg. Same price for 100 g or 2 kg. They'll even grind it to spec for you. 

Generally, the product from the supermarket or bulk packers rather than roasters is not as fresh by quite a long shot. Tobys branded products are around in gourmet delis and the like and are about halfway in between on age and quality. 

Cheers - Fermented.


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## PostModern (24/3/09)

DrSmurto said:


> Since Pomo is shying away from this one i will add my 2 c. h34r:
> 
> <snip>
> 
> ...



I agree, but don't think that people who want to do this shouldn't. Personally, I enjoy coffee notes from the roast barley and speciality malts. Pretty sure many of coffee's aromas come from the roasted outer shell of the bean, which would be the same compounds on the husk of roasted barley. 

Interesting that people want to add coffee and liquorice to stout. I think we naturally associate flavours with colours of food, so see black stout, think black coffee and liquorice. That's the motivation for desiring those food flavours in a beer. You never (never say never, expecting someone to post a link to a coffee Vienna lager or somehting now) see people asking how to get coffee flavours into a pale beer or liquorice into an Amber Ale, although the flavours would probably work just as well as in a stout.

Anyway, enjoy the experimenting folks, it's all about the journey. If anyone finds the Holy Grail, send me a bottle, I might be convinced. Until then, I'll just live with boring old malt and hops.


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## kook (24/3/09)

DrSmurto said:


> You dont _need_ to add either coffee or chocolate to a stout. I am not against you doing so but if you want those flavours you can easily get them from the malt.
> 
> Roasted barley, carafa, pale choc, amber. Loads of coffee and chocolate. :icon_drool2:



None of those will give you caffeine though!


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## Kai (24/3/09)

PostModern said:


> Interesting that people want to add coffee and liquorice to stout. I think we naturally associate flavours with colours of food, so see black stout, think black coffee and liquorice. That's the motivation for desiring those food flavours in a beer. You never (never say never, expecting someone to post a link to a coffee Vienna lager or somehting now) see people asking how to get coffee flavours into a pale beer or liquorice into an Amber Ale, although the flavours would probably work just as well as in a stout.



I don't entirely agree with that, firstly because roasted grains to share a lot of similar flavour compounds to coffee and secondly because Matilda Bay's Crema was as pale as it was weird and uncomfortable.

Also I'm a big fan of dropping a shot of espresso into a pint of stout when I'm out and need a perk up.


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## kirem (24/3/09)

Kai said:


> Also I'm a big fan of dropping a shot of espresso into a pint of stout when I'm out and need a perk up.



Me too. I have introduced a few drinking mates to this and amazed them with the flavour.


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## Jakechan (24/3/09)

Dr Smurto was on the money. I have always thought that additions of actual coffee to achieve a coffee taste in a beer is an unecessary complication.
My Hearty Porter reeks of coffee, particularly when in the fermenter. It mellowed in the keg somewhat but has proven to me that these flavours are easily gained without having the resort to shortcuts.

As for good coffee in general, I would also recommend the Ethiopian Yirgacheffe. Have a gander at www.coffeesnobs.com.au where you can buy green beans online, and roast them youself. It takes about 5 minutes using a popcorn machine and the result is awesome.

Cheers,
Jake


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## dr K (24/3/09)

Oysters and a big stout are a remarkable combination, washed down together not brewed together.
I have never drunk a short black alongside a stout but I figure it would be a nice combination.
The chocolate, sometimes even roast coffee aromas (as pointed out above) come from a carefull use of grains. Adding coffee is, frankly, faking it.

K


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## Sammus (24/3/09)

Oyesters IN a big stout are also a remarkable combination. Potters had an oyster stout on for a while, probably one of the best beers I've tasted to date.


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## PostModern (24/3/09)

kook said:


> None of those will give you caffeine though!



And 40g of coffee in a 20L batch gives you bugger all anyway.


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## kook (24/3/09)

PostModern said:


> And 40g of coffee in a 20L batch gives you bugger all anyway.



I remember working it out when I did my batch, and 80g ended up being about 1/3 shot per pint. I wouldn't call that bugger all!




dr K said:


> The chocolate, sometimes even roast coffee aromas (as pointed out above) come from a carefull use of grains. Adding coffee is, frankly, faking it.



Is adding coriander to a witbier faking spice and fruit character that could come from a yeast? How is adding coffee to a _coffee stout_ "faking" anything?


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## PostModern (24/3/09)

Meh. What if you want a pint late in the evening without caffeine? If you make fresh coffee you can add it, but once it's in the batch, you can't take it back out.

These are just my reasons for not doing it. Each to their own.


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## kook (24/3/09)

PostModern said:


> Meh. What if you want a pint late in the evening without caffeine? If you make fresh coffee you can add it, but once it's in the batch, you can't take it back out.
> 
> These are just my reasons for not doing it. Each to their own.



Then you don't brew a coffee stout  Totally agree - but you could say the same with any ingredients.

Fair enough


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## Adamt (24/3/09)

If it's caffeine you want... get out the mortar and pestle and No-Doz. h34r:


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## RdeVjun (24/3/09)

Yep, "Each to their own." My sentiments precisely. 
Not many folks really go wild for the star anise- laced irish stout I brew, but I do sure as heck do and will continue to make it. So, whatever floats your boat!
I'll not get hung up on whether someone is faking flavours or if its artificial, or if a particular ingredient is or isn't in a style or rather, a recipe. It doesn't really matter how you achieve the end result if you're happy with the flavour, the process and the ingredients you use don't threaten the planet's or a species' survival. (Hmm, perhaps not quite the best argument with coffee in mind, but there you go!) Anyway, a diversity in methods and techniques for achieving a similar end result are kind of good, it means we're using our scones a bit rather than just being compliant little sheepies. Be different, think outside the box and bring out the goat in you. In particular, the giddy goat!


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## manticle (24/3/09)

I've done it twice with some extract brews. I just added about 200g of ground espresso at the end of the boil (also some organic cocoa). Both turned out beautifully although the second also has a honey flavour (yes I added honey) that seems unnecessary now as I drink it.

That said, the nicest coffee flavours I've come across in commercial stouts do come from the malts used and they are much better integrated than my versions so that's what I'll head for next time. Holgate springs to mind.

I second the who gives a shit thing though. If it's your brew put in what you want and leave out what you want.

If it's someone else's beer why are you making it?


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## Effect (24/3/09)

for the people that think that putting coffee into the beer is cheating or is really beer + x...that is all well and good, I am of the opinion as well.

But I still hold the same opinion for gelatine, polyclar and other adjuncts and fining agents. Its just not right in my books (sort of like the german purity law - but even that is a bit anal).

I don't at all discourage the use of any of these though...just think that if adding coffee to get a coffee flavour is thought by some as 'cheating' because it can be achieved by other means (i.e. the grain) - then so should the use of fining agents, where time and temperature can achieve the same result.

Cheers
Phil


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## manticle (24/3/09)

Who exactly are you cheating?


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## Muggus (25/3/09)

Bit OT, but isn't the flavour we call "coffee" a mix complex of flavours within itself anyway?
You get coffee buffs who give you big old run down of how there's notes of vanilla, spice, wood...etc.
Seems to me you could actually control these subtleties of the coffee flavour by adding specific beans/coffee, rather than depending on malt to give you some that tastes _like_ coffee. No doubt the you'll loose a bit of it during the brewing process, but if it's well made and is a strong coffee, I could imagine you could really get a more authentic coffee flavour.

Anyway, i've tried to make a couple of coffee stouts in my time.
Brewed one with a few cups of freshly brewed coffee in the primary...MISTAKE! 
Second I put beans in the mash and secondary. The nose is coffeeish, and there's a bit on the finish, but its lacking in the body.

The info in this thread has got me pondering one more...


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## manticle (27/3/09)

I just brewed a chocolate stout using chocolate malt grains rather than organic cocoa and roasted barley rather than coffee (both latter ingredients I've used before). It's just started fermenting but the initial flavour was strongly reminiscent of coffee and chocolate and I added neither.

I'm still not sure who I'd be cheating if I did though.


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## bradsbrew (27/3/09)

Phillip said:


> for the people that think that putting coffee into the beer is cheating or is really beer + x...that is all well and good, I am of the opinion as well.
> 
> But I still hold the same opinion for gelatine, polyclar and other adjuncts and fining agents. Its just not right in my books (sort of like the german purity law - but even that is a bit anal).
> 
> ...


Just like those cheating bastards at Youngs add oats and chocolate essence to thier Double Chocolate Stout. I dont know how they live with themselves.  

Brad


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## chappo1970 (27/3/09)

Has PoMo seen this yet? h34r: 
I feel a rant coming on.
Yep tooooo late!


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## manticle (27/3/09)

bradsbrew said:


> Just like those cheating bastards at Youngs add oats and chocolate essence to thier Double Chocolate Stout. I dont know how they live with themselves.
> 
> Brad



Not to mention those bastard belgians throwing fruit and sucrose and florally things in, all willy nilly and without a care.

Won't someone please think of the Germans?


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## Effect (27/3/09)

Youngs double chocolate stout and kreik - two of my favourite beers!


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## PostModern (27/3/09)

Muggus said:


> Bit OT, but isn't the flavour we call "coffee" a mix complex of flavours within itself anyway?
> You get coffee buffs who give you big old run down of how there's notes of vanilla, spice, wood...etc.
> Seems to me you could actually control these subtleties of the coffee flavour by adding specific beans/coffee, rather than depending on malt to give you some that tastes _like_ coffee. No doubt the you'll loose a bit of it during the brewing process, but if it's well made and is a strong coffee, I could imagine you could really get a more authentic coffee flavour.



I love coffee. I'm a stovetop guy myself coz I know if I had an espresso machine, I'd be wired on caffeine 24x7. You know how to get those really great bitter, spicy, tart, roasty flavours like you taste in a great espresso?? You drink a cup of freaking coffee...



bradsbrew said:


> Just like those cheating bastards at Youngs add oats and chocolate essence to thier Double Chocolate Stout. I dont know how they live with themselves.



I could only taste essence. Far from my favourite stout, and I was really looking forward to it.



Chappo said:


> Has PoMo seen this yet? h34r:
> I feel a rant coming on.
> Yep tooooo late!



Yeah yeah. How'd you like those raisins and chocolate flavours in my porter?

Hehe. Enjoy guys. Just espressing my view


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## sinkas (27/3/09)

chekc out AleSmith Speedway stout recipe, wicked RIS with coffee


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## bradsbrew (27/3/09)

Pomo whats ya favourite Stout then. I'm always open to get myself a new favourite.

Brad


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## bradsbrew (27/3/09)

sinkas said:


> chekc out AleSmith Speedway stout recipe, wicked RIS with coffee


Come on Sinkas wheres the link and is it available in Sunny Qld


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## kook (27/3/09)

bradsbrew said:


> Come on Sinkas wheres the link and is it available in Sunny Qld



It's not available in Australia 

It is an awesome stout though.

If you google "alesmith speedway stout recipe", the first result is a recipe. For Alesmith Speedway Stout.


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## dr K (27/3/09)

Let me set the record straight, the whole "cheating" thing may have sprung from my comments, but I specifically said "faking it" not 'cheating" and I was specific to coffee additions, not coriander or other spices nor chocolate. Certainly there are a few comercial examples of beer, usually stout with coffee added but specifically as a coffee beer. "coffee" notes are common in beers using roasted grains (wunda y), "coffee" is just one of the armory of smells and sensations that judges will use to describe a beer, I don't think anyone would seriously add passionfruit, or guava, or melon, or grapefruit to substitute for a hop that had those aromas and if they did they would not be cheating but they would be faking. !!!

K


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## Bizier (28/3/09)

PostModern said:


> I could only taste essence. Far from my favourite stout, and I was really looking forward to it.



+1 I felt let down when I tasted this drop, wasn't nearly as complex as I had hoped.


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## Bribie G (18/1/13)

Necro Alert,

This thread comes up on Search but as you can see it's petered out without anyone actually doing the deed and making a stout with coffee itself in the mash.
I'm thinking of doing this with a FES recipe today, friend has given me a couple of kilos of "Grinders" coffee fine grind which I guess is standard CBD-type latte-for-the-office-workers stuff but wondering how much to put in - 80g maybe? Has any stout freak like bradsbrew further explored coffee since the original thread?

_*Old Bar Foreign Extra Stout* (Foreign Extra Stout)

For 23 Litres

Original Gravity (OG): 1.063 (°P): 15.4
Final Gravity (FG): 1.016 (°P): 4.1
Alcohol (ABV): 6.19 %
Colour (SRM): 32.7 (EBC): 64.3
Bitterness (IBU): 34.7 (Average)

61.54% Pale Malt
7.69% Dry Malt Extract - Light
7.69% Munich I
7.69% Roasted Barley
7.69% Wheat Malt
3.85% Carapils (Dextrine)
3.85% Victory

COFFEE ?????????????????????????????

2.2 g/L Challenger (6.1% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)


Single step Infusion at 65°C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 20°C with Wyeast 1768 - IPA special edition


Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*_


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## Cosh (19/1/13)

Bribie G said:


> Necro Alert,
> 
> This thread comes up on Search but as you can see it's petered out without anyone actually doing the deed and making a stout with coffee itself in the mash.
> I'm thinking of doing this with a FES recipe today, friend has given me a couple of kilos of "Grinders" coffee fine grind which I guess is standard CBD-type latte-for-the-office-workers stuff but wondering how much to put in - 80g maybe? Has any stout freak like bradsbrew further explored coffee since the original thread?
> ...


I added coffee to a Schwartzbier once, and it was one of the best beers I've ever made.

I "cold soaked" 250g of freshly ground beans in a large coffee plunger/french press and left it in the fridge overnight. The next day I plunged it and poured the liquid directly into the keg, after I'd filtered the Schwartzbier.

The resultant brew had long lasting coffee flavour and aroma; the cold pressing / soaking helped immensely.


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## Bribie G (19/1/13)

Yes on balance I figured that if I added coffee to the mash, it probably wouldn't make it all the way to the glass, so I just brewed the stout without it and decided to do ultra late coffee like you did.
That cold pressing sounds interesting - does that give you the flavour and aroma without the bitterness / astringency?


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## Wolfman (19/1/13)

At the ANHC last year Christian ??(Can't remember his last name) had a session about dark beers. I think he also was talking about adding coffee to dark beers. It was on the first day of the conference so, as can be expected, I can' remember all the details as I would like.

Christian did say you could contact him at any time with any recipes, questions and advice @ [email protected] or if you can read Dutch www.beerhere.dk .

Let us know how you go Bribie.


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## felten (19/1/13)

I've tried the cold overnight steeping before and it comes out pretty good. Hoping to try the mash steeping in an upcoming batch.


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## Cosh (19/1/13)

Bribie G said:


> Yes on balance I figured that if I added coffee to the mash, it probably wouldn't make it all the way to the glass, so I just brewed the stout without it and decided to do ultra late coffee like you did.
> That cold pressing sounds interesting - does that give you the flavour and aroma without the bitterness / astringency?


Yep, you get all of the coffee flavour, without too much bitterness and minimal aroma loss.


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## pressure_tested (28/5/13)

I am adding coffee to half of my Oatmeal Stout which is fermenting right now. I'll bottle half, then add cold steeped coffee to the second half and bottle it.
Any suggestions on how much I should be putting in? I'm seeing mixed responses everywhere. http://www.madalchemist.com/archives/adding-cold-brewed-coffee-to-your-beer/
suggests 226 grams for a full batch. People here are suggesting 40-80 grams?

We only want a fresh coffee flavour and aroma to compliment the oatmeal stout, not to overpower it.

Cheers


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## Spiesy (7/7/13)

Cosh said:


> I added coffee to a Schwartzbier once, and it was one of the best beers I've ever made.
> 
> I "cold soaked" 250g of freshly ground beans in a large coffee plunger/french press and left it in the fridge overnight. The next day I plunged it and poured the liquid directly into the keg, after I'd filtered the Schwartzbier.
> 
> The resultant brew had long lasting coffee flavour and aroma; the cold pressing / soaking helped immensely.


Hey Cosh,

What size was your batch?

I have some amazingly beautiful, fresh coffee beans on me and a Dry Irish Stout bubbling away. I tasted a sample of it, and at risk of ruining what already tastes nice, I'm wanting to add some freshly ground coffee and maybe even throw a vanilla bean in for a couple of days.

With cold pressing/soaking - how are you able to ensure sanitation? Just relying on the alcohol present in the beer?


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## Maxt (7/7/13)

I added 1/2 a plunger of strong coffe to a porter once.. Was more like porter flavoured coffee. A little goes a long way. My advice is to add a bit, then taste, adjust as needed.


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## Tex083 (7/7/13)

There is a method of coffee production out there called "cold drip" and its all I drink in summer, cold and refreshing without the bitterness.
The plunger over night is the same basic theory, you get all the sweetness and none of the bitterness, one word of warning the longer a coffee is brewed for the higher the caffiene content 

Keen as to make a smoked coffee porter.


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## Cosh (8/7/13)

Spiesy said:


> Hey Cosh,
> 
> What size was your batch?
> 
> ...


It was a 23L brew; I really like coffee though, so maybe with yours I would try 50-100g.

The sanitation wasn't an issue, I used boiled water that had cooled in the fridge before adding the coffee. The coffee was freshly roasted and ground.


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## Droopy (8/7/13)

Sorry, coffee in beer is blasphemy !!


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