# Invert Sugar



## MattC (9/7/09)

Hi all brewers!! :beerbang: 

I have been looking at some recipes of late and have seen invert sugar listed as an ingredient in certain recipes. I believe it to be formed when sucrose is split into glucose and fructose???

Firstly what would it be used for in a recipe?

Where can you get it?

Can it be substituted for anything?

Cheers


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## A3k (9/7/09)

Invert sugar is used to add alcohol without adding flavor or colour.
adding table sugar (Edit: instead of invert sugar) adds a unfavorable cidery twang to beer.

Golden Syrup is invert sugar. Lyles is good to use.
I think you can make invert sugar at home by my heating table sugar with citric acid, but others will know more about this.

Cheers,
Al


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## manticle (9/7/09)

Your interpretation is correct. Basically you can make it yourself boiling sucrose and adding an acid. Othewrwise the process uses an enzyme.

I bring a kilo or so of sugar to the boil in a couple of litres of water and add lemon or orange juice. You can buy citric acid or use vinegar - it depends entirely on the flavours you want. Essentially it's just toffee.

A longer boil will add colour and flavour to a brew. Think Belgian Candy sugar and styles that may be used in and you'll have an indication but I think it can be used with success in any brew that requires/uses simple sugars.


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## Murcluf (9/7/09)

Sugar Water Citric acid plenty of how to's on the web make sure you have a candy thermometer when making it to get you consistencies rigth for the style your after or your just wasting your time.


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## manticle (9/7/09)

Re: thermometer - I disagree. A candy thermometer is great if you need to make spun toffee for an elaborate dessert in a michelin star restaurant but you can make invert sugar without one. Colour is as good a guide as temperature because hard or soft crack is pretty much irrelevant. Crack level has nothing to do with whether or not the molecules invert and it has nowt to do with colour either.

If I'm wrong I'll stick my finger in your candy sugar pot.


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## felten (9/7/09)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_sugar_syrup


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## manticle (9/7/09)

I have read that wikipedia link many times. It still doesn't explain why a candy thermometer is essential to making invert sugar. The only sentences relevant to temperature are:




> Hydrolysis of sucrose yields glucose and fructose about 85%, the reaction temperature can be maintained at 50-60oC.



(Doesn't specify for how long, why, what or whether _whatever_ it is, is ESSENTIAL to invert the sugar)


and:




> Invert sugar syrup may also be produced without the use of acids or enzymes by * thermal* means alone.



(also mentions simmering for 7 minutes so no need for fancy thermometers)


As I said - I'm happy to eat a hat, hot candy sugar or even an oven mitt if you want to send it through the post but I've made all different kinds of caramelised sugar for all different purposes, and while a thermometer has a useful place, I struggle to see its absolute, essential, necessary, cannot do without it, place in the world of (essentially) just making toffee for about $2 dollars and a couple of hours of your time.

I apologise if your response was a response to the OP rather than to myself.


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## Bribie G (9/7/09)

Wikipedia: inverted sugar syrup can be easily made by adding roughly one gram of citric acid or ascorbic acid, per kilogram of sugar

A gram would be about a third of a heaped teaspoon


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## Darren (9/7/09)

For those all-grain brewers amongst the previous posters, can you explain to me what there is about heating cane sugar on the stove under acididic conditions that is not emulated with a one hour boil in the wort? Its acidic (or should be), and is performed for more that an hour at 100 C resulting in darkening and caramelisation.

cheers

darren


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## manticle (9/7/09)

Darren said:


> For those all-grain brewers amongst the previous posters, can you explain to me what there is about heating cane sugar on the stove under acididic conditions that is not emulated with a one hour boil in the wort? Its acidic (or should be), and is performed for more that an hour at 100 C resulting in darkening and caramelisation.
> 
> cheers
> 
> darren




I'm not an AG brewer yet but I would say nothing. If you want to invert your sugar and add it early in ferment then adding to the boil would probably do it fine.

In instances where you want to incrementally feed yeast (as recommended in some Belgian styles) then making it separately makes sense.


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## Bribie G (10/7/09)

Darren said:


> For those all-grain brewers amongst the previous posters, can you explain to me what there is about heating cane sugar on the stove under acididic conditions that is not emulated with a one hour boil in the wort? Its acidic (or should be), and is performed for more that an hour at 100 C resulting in darkening and caramelisation.
> 
> cheers
> 
> darren



You would waste a bit of it because it remains in the trub in the kettle, only a few tens of cents for sure, otherwise not much difference.


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## thylacine (10/7/09)

MattC said:


> Hi all brewers!! :beerbang:
> 
> I have been looking at some recipes of late and have seen invert sugar listed as an ingredient in certain recipes. I believe it to be formed when sucrose is split into glucose and fructose???
> 
> ...



http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=radio Episode 8/5/09 "Making Homemade Candi Syrup". On Basic Brewing Radio. eg. free podacast via I-Tunes


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## RobW (10/7/09)

Darren said:


> For those all-grain brewers amongst the previous posters, can you explain to me what there is about heating cane sugar on the stove under acididic conditions that is not emulated with a one hour boil in the wort? Its acidic (or should be), and is performed for more that an hour at 100 C resulting in darkening and caramelisation.
> 
> cheers
> 
> darren



Your boil won't reach 127-135 degrees which is the temp you need to hold the sugar solution at to invert it.


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## felten (10/7/09)

manticle said:


> I apologise if your response was a response to the OP rather than to myself.



aye it was, i was just being tired/lazy and didn't bother quoting the op  no worries tho.


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## bconnery (10/7/09)

A3k said:


> Invert sugar is used to add alcohol without adding flavor or colour.
> adding table sugar (Edit: instead of invert sugar) adds a unfavorable cidery twang to beer.
> 
> Golden Syrup is invert sugar. Lyles is good to use.
> ...


1. No it isn't. Not entirely. Invert sugars in various forms are also used to add colour and flavour. Candy syrup/sugar in its various forms is an invert sugar and the darker versions certainly add plenty of flavour. Golden Syrup will add some colour and flavour to your beer. 

2. No it won't. I, and other brewers, have used various forms of table sugars, that is non inverted sugars, without any cidery twang. I think this is a myth from the days when homebrewers would add 1kg of sugar then ferment warm. 

I believe, but without looking it up I'm not certain, the golden syrup is partially inverted, but doesn't make that much difference. If a recipe calls for invert sugar Golden Syrup can be used with good effects.


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## buttersd70 (10/7/09)

bconnery said:


> I believe, but without looking it up I'm not certain, the golden syrup is partially inverted, but doesn't make that much difference. If a recipe calls for invert sugar Golden Syrup can be used with good effects.



You are correct. Golden syrup is a blend of inverted and non inverted syrup. I forget the actual ratio, but it is mentioned on the lyles website. CSR's quality control manager also advised that the same applies for their syrup, in response to an email from me about a year or so ago.


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## Darren (10/7/09)

RobW said:


> Your boil won't reach 127-135 degrees which is the temp you need to hold the sugar solution at to invert it.




My understanding is that temp is to acheive a "piss-like" colour not for invertion _perse_


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## Thirsty Boy (10/7/09)

Inverting sugar in brewing is about yeast not about flavour. Yeast metabolise inverted sugar and so if you feed them non inverted sugar, they have to invert it themselves with an enzyme (invertase) -- the purpose of feeding them inverted sugar is to make their little yeasty lives easier and then they will do their job better.

In practice it probably makes two thirds of stuff all difference


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## Screwtop (10/7/09)

Thirsty Boy said:


> In practice it probably makes two thirds of stuff all difference




That much?? Would have thought it closer to 5 fifths of f*&K all :lol:


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## warrenlw63 (10/7/09)

And it only took us 19 posts to derive at that. B) 

Warren -


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## buttersd70 (10/7/09)

warrenlw63 said:


> And it only took us 19 posts to derive at that. B)
> 
> Warren -



One should _never _dirink and derive.

:icon_drunk:


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## Swinging Beef (10/7/09)

buttersd70 said:


> One should _never _dirink and derive.
> 
> :icon_drunk:


 :icon_vomit:


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## warrenlw63 (10/7/09)

buttersd70 said:


> One should _never _dirink and derive.
> 
> :icon_drunk:



Yes there's always a chance one might spill some. :lol: 

Warren -


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## MattC (16/7/09)

Thanks for the helpful comments guys. If I really need it I will use Golden Syrup, but largely i just wont worry about using invert sugar!!

Cheers


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## Bribie G (16/7/09)

After a short period of inverting sugar a couple of months ago, now I just whack it in and have found SFA difference. Maybe the trace of citric acid would help the yeastie's citric acid cycle but probably not much.


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## manticle (16/7/09)

If you candy it as well as invert it it adds flavour and colour which is more than sfa.


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