# Discarding Spent Grain & Fermentation Trub In The Garden - Acidity



## RobH (2/4/11)

I have been wondering what effects in terms of acidity the discarded grain & the trub from the bottom of the fermenter is having on my garden. If it increases acidity levels, then I will throw it towards my citrus & azaleas and avoid chucking it in the rest of the garden.

I once chucked a bunch of spent grin in my worm farm (2.5kg dry ... goodnes knows wht it was wet) and the worms appeared to shy away from it ... so I scraped most of it out and left only a little bit which the seemed to be ok with ... wondered if it was too acidc for them.


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## super_simian (2/4/11)

I've had the same issue in my wormfarm.


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## keifer33 (2/4/11)

I only put around a decent handful in for the worms weekly and have to scrap the rest as it just ends up smelling like sweaty socks after a few days.


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## gone_fishing (2/4/11)

Spread it thinly on the garden and it works fantastic. Big lumps tend to go skanky very quickly. If you are looking to grow wild maggots, just leave it in a big pile and wait a week (neighbours wont be amused). Worms in the garden love it so long as it is spread thinly.
gf


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## GrumpyPaul (2/4/11)

I always get in trouble from the missus when I throw the trub on the garden.

She reckons it smells like someone got really drunk and threw up in the garden. ha ha ha


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## [email protected] (2/4/11)

Mixed through existing compost heap works great.

Although most of the time i chuck it in the paddock and the horses go nuts on it!


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## Bada Bing Brewery (2/4/11)

I chuck it to the chooks - they love it and are still alive.
Cheers
BBB


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## dougsbrew (2/4/11)

ive occasionally chuck around 3 kg of spent grain on top of my worm farm. they dont go for it straight away 
and it can get quite smelly, however theyre lovin it after a couple of weeks.


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## pdilley (2/4/11)

In my worm farm I get Black Soldier Fly hitting it first which is great as they make great chook food. Then after the Soldier fly hit it once or twice the worms move in and its gone very quickly.

I also feed mine to the chooks at times, but was warned not to as it may block their cloaca. Again I never had it happen yet but be aware that it may be an issue.

Barley is used in balancing pH and nutrition nutters drink the juice of barley grass to neutralise acidity in the body. I have no idea what the pH of barley grains are (wheat flours are between 6.12 and 5.29) but I would not assume them to be acidic.

In fact most farmers have no idea that soil acidity is caused from nutrient depleted soils (bad land management practices) as the plants are forced to secret more organic acids from their roots to dissolve the minerals in rocks in the soils to get at nutrients that have been leached out of their soils.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## Hogan (2/4/11)

Just dump it in the garden and your dog will have a field day. A great disgestive tract cleaner. Just have a look at the land mines they leave.


Cheers, Hoges.


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## Pennywise (3/4/11)

I've found trub to kill the worms in my garden, pretty damn quickly to. Spent grain I don know as I make doggie biscuits out of it most of the time, and he one time I did mix it into the garden, I busted some mice from next door scratching through the soil to get at it. So I don't do it


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## Nodrog (3/4/11)

does anyone have any experience of using the spent grains in compost?
5kgs at a time, when it was dry....

Bit worried it would be a mice + rate nirvana?


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## dcx3 (3/4/11)

I dumped mine in the garden and it brought mice and of course snakes love to eat mice so we had a brown snake in the backyard for a while.
Im just ditching mine in the green bin now.


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## enoch (3/4/11)

Nodrog said:


> does anyone have any experience of using the spent grains in compost?
> 5kgs at a time, when it was dry....
> 
> Bit worried it would be a mice + rate nirvana?


I chuck it in the compost with a shovel or two of dynamic lifter. 
Steaming in a day or two.


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## bignath (3/4/11)

dcx3 said:


> Im just ditching mine in the green bin now.




Yeah that's where mine goes too. 

I've busted a few mice in my shed, and don't want to make it easier for them to populate by providing a food source. I don't actually know if they eat spent grain, but i'm damn sure they are in my shed because they can smell the grain that is safely stored in empty fermenters, off the ground, in my brewstand....


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## Charst (3/4/11)

i got a compost bin from the big green shed for like $30 an now add all my grain to it along with garden scraps and grass clippings. makes great compost!


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## Jazzafish (3/4/11)

I also add it to a compost bin... 5 to 8 KG at a time with all other food scraps, clippings, trub, old yeast cakes that have had their time and basically anything that is organic waste. Breaks down well and feeds the garden.


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## Harry Volting (3/4/11)

I think timing/pH? is the key.
I dump my spent grain in the back yard as soon as run-off is complete.
Chooks (Gang of Four) can't get enough of it and covet the pile until the steam has finished.
Mice and Bush Bandicoots feed overnight which keeps the Powerful Owls in business and the Flying Foxes away from the fruit trees.
Chooks lay the next morning which keeps McDonalds _out_ of business.
I find if the mash is left overnight to sour the animals (including the worms) don't want a bar of it and the only thing that prospers is the flies.
Everybody's happy. I love a Green beer.


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## Golani51 (3/4/11)

I give it to the Guinea Pigs and they are buried in it up to their necks. They love the stuff and don't move from it all day. 3 piggies devoured 5kg post brewday.
R


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## RobH (3/4/11)

Thanks guys, I hadn't considered the mouse/rat issue, but I am sure that would be an issue around my place - have seen several varieties of the rodent nature around here - ranging from the "quiet as a mouse" tiny brown mouse which darts from cover to cover on the kitchen floor at speeds that must be approaching the speed of light  - to the fist-sized dirty bush rats that probbly come up from the creek.

I have a "tumbleweed" composter, so I might chuck a load in there and see how it goes ... it is always steaming when I open it up, so I rekon the microbes are very alive and well in there.

We are also considering getting around four chooks - but that's a way off at least until I fence off some of the yard ... didn't know a chooks (and a range of other animals) bum was called a cloaca until I read the replies here and googled the word


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## QldKev (1/10/13)

GrumpyPaul said:


> I always get in trouble from the missus when I throw the trub on the garden.
> 
> She reckons it smells like someone got really drunk and threw up in the garden. ha ha ha



I dumped today's spent grain in the garden. I just got told not to do it in the garden next to our bedroom window. She must not like the smell coming in. :blink:


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## macca05 (1/10/13)

Pennywise said:


> I've found trub to kill the worms in my garden, pretty damn quickly to. Spent grain I don know as I make doggie biscuits out of it most of the time, and he one time I did mix it into the garden, I busted some mice from next door scratching through the soil to get at it. So I don't do it


Pennywise,
Any chance you have a recipe for those doggy biscuits. Would love to be able to use my spent grain for the something other than the bin. I too left a pile in the front yard and for a few days I thought something had died until I realised it was the grain.

Thanks
Macca


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## scon (1/10/13)

Hogan said:


> Just dump it in the garden and your dog will have a field day. A great disgestive tract cleaner. Just have a look at the land mines they leave.
> 
> 
> Cheers, Hoges.


Just watch it if you decide to First Wort Hop. Apparently hops are poisonous to dogs and this is the particular scenario that'll kill them (ie: they see a big bunch of spent grain, think yum and eat a shitload of it, along with a good hunk of hops).


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## of mice and gods (1/10/13)

I have a soil pH test kit here, so next time I brew, I'll use that to check the pH of the spent grain (although strips in the pre-boil wort would give a pretty good indication if someone has them for their swimming pool or check's their pH anyway).

I'm guessing it'd naturally be slightly acidic (5.5-7.5), which if added to a soil of differing pH would have to have some kind of effect. However dependant on how much grain, how often and over what area you spread it the effect may vary from very insignificant to mild/moderate. It may also naturally change it's pH during the decay process. It would be interesting to test.

The simplest way to neutralise your grain like other people have said are chooks/worms/compost. I find the trick to the worms is they don't like big thick layers, mix it in with some soil or compost (either way the BSF will find it too). For compost, the biggest thing is getting your mixture ratios right so you don't get stinky-ass-vermin-attracting anaerobic compost. To keep it simple, if you add wet/green stuff, add equal & a bit dry/brown (carbon-y) stuff. Turn it over occassionally to aerate it and you shouldn't have any pests or smells. Those rotating bins are the ducks guts when it comes to easy aeration.

Al


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## krausenhaus (1/10/13)

This is a little off topic in regard to the acidity issue, but seemed like as good a place as any to post this.

I dump all my grain, trub, yeast cakes etc. into the garden. The other night I noticed this strange cauliflower-like growth that I hadn't noticed the day before:



By the next day, it had gotten more red and was starting to show some yellow:


Later on, it was oozing yellow and smelling pretty offensive (cooked cabbage):


By night, it had become a slimy, stinky slug-fest:



Anyone know what the hell this is?


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## Rocker1986 (2/10/13)

scon said:


> Just watch it if you decide to First Wort Hop. Apparently hops are poisonous to dogs and this is the particular scenario that'll kill them (ie: they see a big bunch of spent grain, think yum and eat a shitload of it, along with a good hunk of hops).


Wouldn't this be mash hopping (or whatever it's called)? My understanding of first wort hopping was that these hops are added after the grains are removed while the wort is still at mash or mashout temps while bringing it to the boil.


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## NewtownClown (2/10/13)

Rocker1986 said:


> Wouldn't this be mash hopping (or whatever it's called)? My understanding of first wort hopping was that these hops are added after the grains are removed while the wort is still at mash or mashout temps while bringing it to the boil.


Correct


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## DJ_L3ThAL (2/10/13)

Pennywise said:


> I've found trub to kill the worms in my garden, pretty damn quickly to. Spent grain I don know as I make doggie biscuits out of it most of the time, and he one time I did mix it into the garden, I busted some mice from next door scratching through the soil to get at it. So I don't do it





macca05 said:


> Pennywise,
> Any chance you have a recipe for those doggy biscuits. Would love to be able to use my spent grain for the something other than the bin. I too left a pile in the front yard and for a few days I thought something had died until I realised it was the grain.
> 
> Thanks
> Macca


+1 recipe please, anything I can do from brewing that's not directly brewing related and helps around the house, helps me fund my inevitable brewery growth =D


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## 431neb (2/10/13)

Spent grain usually goes to the chooks. They seem to hop straight in no matter how hot it is. I worry that it'll burn the silly buggers. I have in the past dumped whole batches of grain on the worm farm (it's an old enamel bath so it's quite large) and never looked to see if they were upset but there is millions of the bastards in there now so I guess it's OK. They tend to get a feast or famine feeding regime anyway.

I've also put whole loads into a compost tumbler along with the krud that was in there and a heap of vegie scraps. It coped OK.

I think the only one of those systems that could cope with a fortnightly or weekly brew would be the chooks.

Currently I'm experimenting with tipping the yeast cake and rinsings under my lemon tree. No adverse reaction after about 6 or seven brews.

On the topic of waste yeast. The Japanese use a system called "Bokashi" that uses yeast and other micro-organisms to break down food scraps in a bucket resulting in liquid fertiliser and a "compost" of sorts that can be added to the soil.
Brewers yeast is favoured by some to accelerate the composting of plant material.


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## Mr. No-Tip (2/10/13)

Dog biscuits: http://byo.com/food-recipes/item/2368-grains-to-treats-last-call

Last time I had no eggs, I used honey to help bind. Was good, according to McKinley.

I also like doing variations on this for the humans: http://brewsmith.com.au/spent-grain-beer-bread-healthy-and-sustainable-and-did-we-mention-delicious/


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## real_beer (2/10/13)

Similar dog biscuits: http://www.love2brew.com/Articles.asp?ID=268


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## Mr. No-Tip (2/10/13)

krausenhaus said:


> This is a little off topic in regard to the acidity issue, but seemed like as good a place as any to post this.
> 
> I dump all my grain, trub, yeast cakes etc. into the garden. The other night I noticed this strange cauliflower-like growth that I hadn't noticed the day before:
> 
> ...


It's a fungus. I've seen it before - I was convinced cats were vomming in my front yard, but I was told it's not so...


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## GalBrew (2/10/13)

Be careful if you live in the burbs, not sure you or your neighbours will appreciate the rat infestation. :blink:


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## Bribie G (2/10/13)

I dispose of all my spent grain in the communal landscaping - I was actually asked to do this by the body corp lady who looks after the gardens, when she realised that I was a good source of mulch. 

I let it cool then thoroughly mix with the soil and spread a layer of existing mulch over the top to hide it. No offensive smells. If you just dump it, then it will turn to a fungus sludge, often with fine hairy filaments all over it. 

Yeast trub goes down the toilet. Yeast is a fruit fly magnet and if you have neighbours with fruit trees they will be less than impressed. I used to pour it down the sink or laundry tub and ended up with fruit fly (vinegar fly) infestations in the kitchen, laundry and bathrooms. Took weeks to eradicate them.


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## angus_grant (2/10/13)

Thanks Bribie. I generally tip the yeast trub down the outside drain and then tip the hot water + cleaner from the fermenter down the drain as well afterwards. Not had a noticeable problem with fruit flies after doing this.

I'll tip the yeast trub down toilet on the very odd occasion I don't clean the fermenter straight away..


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## 431neb (2/10/13)

Had to kill some time in Bunnings today. Whilst I was there I spotted this stuff on the shelf. The bag looks a lot like milled grain. It sure doesn't look fermented as the label says.







Have a read of this for a quick explanation of "Effective Microorganisms". Brewers are all over some of this stuff already.

Isolate your next infection!!

http://www.hawaiihealingtree.org/how-to-make-your-own-em-1-inoculant-and-bokashi/


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## adryargument (2/10/13)

I dump 12KG of spent grain in a pile in the corner of the yard.
Just wash it down very well after you remove it from the mash tun to clear any remaining sugars that are 99% of the skankyness.


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## Greg.L (2/10/13)

krausenhaus said:


> This is a little off topic in regard to the acidity issue, but seemed like as good a place as any to post this.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone know what the hell this is?



Might be a coral fungus. Perfectly harmless.


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## macca05 (10/10/13)

Mr. No-Tip said:


> Dog biscuits: http://byo.com/food-recipes/item/2368-grains-to-treats-last-call
> 
> Last time I had no eggs, I used honey to help bind. Was good, according to McKinley.
> 
> I also like doing variations on this for the humans: http://brewsmith.com.au/spent-grain-beer-bread-healthy-and-sustainable-and-did-we-mention-delicious/





real_beer said:


> Similar dog biscuits: http://www.love2brew.com/Articles.asp?ID=268


Thanks fellas. I know what ill be doing after my next brew day. Making my dog salivate


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## punkin (10/10/13)

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=spent+grain+dog+buscuits


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## Not For Horses (10/10/13)

Would the ph rise after a couple of days of being out in the weather? I can't think of a good reason aside from moisture in the air at ph7 mixing in with the grain. Maybe. I do know that chooks won't touch it for at least two days.


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## yankinoz (10/10/13)

Spent grains, trub and yeast sediment are all very high in nitrogen, which means they'll fire up biological activity in a compost heap or in the soil. That's why they soon turn sour. They will temporarily depress pH but have only a slight lasting effect on soil pH, easily counteracted with lime or wood ashes. They should be espeially useful in compost if the other ingredients are low in nitrogen, such as sawdust, dead leaves and straw. As Partial Man said, mix well. I dig them directly into soil well in advance of planting, mostly where leafy greens or sweetcorn are going in. In fruting plants such as tomatoes I found they encourage too much top growth and discourage fruiting.

I've seen no effects on worms, but it's possible. Probably the hops, which are toxic to so many forms of life other than us lucky few.

Look up the history of the word cloaca; it's a gem.


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## The Lords of Diacetyl (12/5/14)

dcx3 said:


> I dumped mine in the garden and it brought mice and of course snakes love to eat mice so we had a brown snake in the backyard for a while.
> Im just ditching mine in the green bin now.


Snakes!
Ahhh New Zealand, freezing ******* cold, but snakeless


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## GABBA110360 (12/5/14)

Not For Horses said:


> . I do know that chooks won't touch it for at least two days.


I dumped 10.5 kilo of spent grain in the chook pen at probably 50 deg c and they were into it full on cant get enough of it


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## pomsaleius (12/5/14)

Not sure if anyone has raised this yet as I'm reading on the tram on the dodgy iphone app, but apparently hops can be poisonous to dogs. If you google that you'll see there are reputable studies confirming it. So best not chuck spent hops where the dog can get them.


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## GalBrew (12/5/14)

The Lords of Diacetyl said:


> Snakes!
> Ahhh New Zealand, freezing ******* cold, but snakeless


Plenty of rats though......rats love spent grain.


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## Black Devil Dog (12/5/14)

Kevin Hawley said:


> Not sure if anyone has raised this yet as I'm reading on the tram on the dodgy iphone app, but apparently hops can be poisonous to dogs. If you google that you'll see there are reputable studies confirming it. So best not chuck spent hops where the dog can get them.


My hops go into the wheelie bin for this exact reason. Spent grains go to the chooks, but I'm not prepared to risk the hops being eaten by my dogs.

Plus they give my bin a nicer smell.


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