# Saflager S-23 questions



## Bribie G

I rarely make lagers, mostly because it ties up the brewing plant for such a long time. Also as I generally use Wyeast 2042 Danish Lager from a smack pack, the pack generally only yields one batch which means I have to order a fresh pack for each occasional lager brew. I haven't used a dry lager yeast for several years and then it was nearly always S-189.

Now that I'm in a colder Winter climate and comps coming up, I have an opportunity for a few months of doing a series of lager style beers, just running Saflager S-23 at garage ambient, holding at say 17 degrees. Current ambient in a cube of water that I keep on the floor of the brick n tile garage for the purpose is 19 degrees, so nearly there. This is my first Winter here so winging it at the moment of course.

The reason I'm looking at S-23 is because Ross at Bacchus Brewing gets excellent results using it at 19 degrees for ten days then transferring to cold room for a further ten days (no racking) as he has posted here in the past.

Checking Palmer's How to Brew he has some interesting thoughts on Saflager S-23 (I converted the Fahrenheit for easier reading):

Saflager S-23 (DCL Yeast)
This lager strain is used by several European commercial breweries. This yeast develops soft estery notes at the recommended temperature range of 9-15°F and more ale-like characteristics at warmer temperatures. From what I have read, I am speculating that this is a Kolsch or Alt-type yeast. This strain of yeast will produce a lager character at 12°F, and homebrewers have reported good results with this yeast. Given the recommended fermentation temperature range, these yeasts may not respond well to lagering (extended secondary fermentation at low temperatures) as described in Chapter 10, and probably should be maintained at 12°F for the duration of the time in the fermenter, approximately 2-3 weeks. I have not used this yeast myself and cannot say for certain.

I wouldn't say that Ross's 19 degree lagers that I sampled were ale like at all, I found them super-clean and not really estery - from memory I've tried the Bo Pils, XXXX tribute, Corona tribute and maybe another one.

He was thinking of putting in some more "traditional" lagering space - I wonder if he did that and what difference it made to his lager brews.

Do any other members run S-23 at ale fermentation temperatures?


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## bradsbrew

I use s-23 at 16-17 degrees. Been doing that quite a bit actually because I like the results and the character the yeasts brings to beer when fermented at those temps. Mind you I have not done it trying to achieve a perfect example of a European lager because I have never had one off a tap before.
I just kegged one last night that I threw a cube of my English session bitter onto a good cake of S23 (without the dry hop), it was fermented at 17 for ten days then another 11 days at -1 just went and had a taste and it is nothing like the version I normally use an English yeast with. You still get the lager yeast profile in the beer, had my normal schooner from the fermenter as the keg fills and it reminded me of the old carlton pilsener in the eighties which is exactly the style of beer I am trying to achieve - a malty dry aussie premium that visitors and I can enjoy.

edit- forgot to mention that I threw a big cube of my Victoria secret bitter lager onto that yeast cake last night, obviously way early but I am hoping to get the old fourex out of this one and will be throwing some oak chips in the keg and taking it to the swap this year.

Cheers


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## punkin

Been thinking about buying a brick of this yeast lately after reading up on steam beer. For the same reasons you are talking about bribie, that i can ferment in winter and hold an ale temp pretty easily.

I've read a bit about it and seems that people use it for everything from steam beers to belgians.


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## Bribie G

Brad you've sold me with that reference to Carlton Pilsener





<story>
When I was a sales rep in the early 80s I won a comp at work and received $100 cash. So I took that round to the Granville Hotel (a Blue Pub) and asked the landlord how many slabs I could get. In those days a slab was around $13 but he had over ordered on the Pilsener so he said he'd do 10 slabs.
Took them home "hey sweetie guess what I won at work" :lol:
</story>

Might fire one up with some POR and a wee hit of some crystal.


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## chewy

I'm going to rack and lager with S23 and bottle I was wondering how this yeast performs with lagering and then bottling without loss of carbonation?


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## brentice

Any feedback yet Bribie??? I am also thinking about making the next batch of beer with this yeast at similar temps. True story


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## Ross

Bribie, we use Swiss Lager (S-189) when we want a clean Euro stylelager. We use the S-23 when emulating Aussie style lagers.


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## Bribie G

Hi Brentice, I ordered some S-23 or so I thought. However I'd ticked the wrong box and actually got S-189, so better luck next time :lol: Looks like I'll have to do a Euro Style lager instead. Actually S-189 ferments really cleanly as Ross says, (edit: he put me onto it in the first place) and at ale temps if you want, haven't used it for about 3 years so looking forward to visiting it again.


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## Nick JD

Is S23 dried 2042?


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## chewy

I'm emulating a Australian mid strength lager


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## Florian

Nick JD said:


> Is S23 dried 2042?


I wouldn't think so from my experience.

Also, S-23 originates in Berlin, according to the blurb. It's close to Denmark but not quite there yet.


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## brente1982

Is there any lag time using this yeast? I made my wort up Monday night, and because it was so late and I was a wrecked, didn't have time to quickly cool it down to around 12 degrees so I stuck it in my temp controlled ffermenting fridge and let it do it for me. The next morning I went in and pitched the dried yeast on top. 24 hours later still no action. Is this normal or have I ruined it?


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## spryzie

Mine always starts within 24 hours.

But give it another day.

Your process shouldn't have affected it if you pitched at 12. That's what I pitch at.

The delay may have resulted in an infection though. Probably not - just may. Don't panic.

You could pitch again. s23 is cheap enough.


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## brente1982

Another thing I thought it could have been is I shocked the shit out of the yeast, as I had it sitting inside at who knows what temp, then took it to something that was quite colder


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## Ross

Assuming you've dry pitched (let's not go there) 1 sachet of S-23 at 12c into approx 20L, you've massively under pitched. Either pitch at least one more pack or warm the brew up to 18c & chill it back down as soon as you see activity.


Cheers Ross


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## brente1982

I see. So if I was to pitch another pack, which I assume would be safe to do since fermentation hasn't started yet, would it be better to rehydrate it first? And if so, would I use some of the wort to do so and warn it up first?


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## RelaxedBrewer

rehydrate it in 23C water, then add it to your fermenter


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## brente1982

I've rehydrated yeast before, but I've always been curious about how you maintain a temperature, like say 23 degrees?


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## gap

brente1982 said:


> I've rehydrated yeast before, but I've always been curious about how you maintain a temperature, like say 23 degrees?


You are only hydrating for 20 to 30 minutes .


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## MCHammo

gap said:


> You are only hydrating for 20 to 30 minutes .


And 23 degrees is so close to room temperature, that if you get somewhere close, it's going to stay somewhere close over only half an hour. Of all the things to fret about, this is very minor.


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## brente1982

No worries, thought I'd just ask as I was curious

Will it not shock it when I the pour the warmer hydrated yeast into 12 degree wort?


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## spryzie

you're allowed 10 degrees difference.

Your 23 degree yeast will be cooled to 22 I'm sure, sitting for 15 mins.


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## brente1982

Yeah, cheers, all done now, and in the fermenter. Hopefully she starts to kick off soon.


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## ScubaSteve15

I'm current;y using S-23 to make a dark lager (like Montieths Black) and have had the fermenter set to 12C for 2 weeks, it's at SG 1029.
Should I go warmer? I've just done a D-test and it smells a little buttery.
Any tips?


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## Martin Reeves

I've pitched this yeast into my lager wort today and have it sitting in the shed - currently 9 degrees and dropping to 7 overnight. Should I use my heat belt to try to keep the temp up around 12-14 or just let it do it's thing in the shed for three weeks? The ambient temp is unlikely to rise above 14. Appreciate any thoughts.


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## gaijin

The temp in the centre of your fermenter will probably sit around 2C higher than ambient, plus the yeast generates heat while fermenting. This should bring it into the low end of the recommended temp range. If you can provide a bit of insulation to stabilise the temperature fluctuations, it would do a bit better for the yeast health (thus flavour). I start the temp at the low range and begin to let it rise naturally to 18c towards the end of ferment and get great results.


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## Martin Reeves

gaijin said:


> The temp in the centre of your fermenter will probably sit around 2C higher than ambient, plus the yeast generates heat while fermenting. This should bring it into the low end of the recommended temp range. If you can provide a bit of insulation to stabilise the temperature fluctuations, it would do a bit better for the yeast health (thus flavour). I start the temp at the low range and begin to let it rise naturally to 18c towards the end of ferment and get great results.


Cheers. I've got a heat belt around the fermenter and it's currently sitting at 10-12c in the shed (Melbourne). Not much airlock activity, only seems to happen when I move the heat belt around then stops after a few mins. Should I be worried about no airlock activity or just trust the yeast is doing its thing?


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## Martin Reeves

Update - lots of airlock activity over days 2-4 at a steady 12 degree temp in shed. Occasionally turning heat belt on in the afternoon to prepare for the overnight drop but otherwise using ambient temps. Quietly confident with this brew.


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