# Are Mongolian Burners Still Sooty On Low Flame?



## lordsnipe (22/7/09)

Hey all,

I'm currently researching natural gas burners for a "wok stove" that I wish to build. Whilst not for brewing beer, you guys seem to be the only forums who seem to discuss high power gas burners.

I've read threads on this forum (from 2004/2005) where people have complained that the Mongolian burners burn with a yellow flame (which then results in a sooty underside) when the gas is turned right down. Is this still the case?

I'd like to have a bit of range on this stove. I was thinking of the 23 jet Mongolian burner for the highest output on full whack, but am thinking about scenarios where I want medium/low heat. However, I think even using the 10 jet model would produce a yellow flame on low gas flow?

Anyone able to comment?


Cheers

Alex


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## komodo (22/7/09)

I dont know - but I am interested in your "wok stove" got pics or a drawing?


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## lordsnipe (22/7/09)

not as of yet. I've got ideas in my head. Basically taking ideas from rigs I've seen here to boil pots/kegs etc and adapting for a wok, making sure it's at a good height for stirfrying.


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## spog (22/7/09)

lordsnipe said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I'm currently researching natural gas burners for a "wok stove" that I wish to build. Whilst not for brewing beer, you guys seem to be the only forums who seem to discuss high power gas burners.
> 
> ...


regarding the yellow flame/sooting i reckon the problem there is the "wok" is too close to the flame,try lifting the wok higher so the tip of the flame is about 5mm below the heating surface/base of the wok,or close to the tip of the blue part of the flame,could also be due to not enough oxygen getting to the flame.
no doubt someone here will have more info ...cheers..spog....


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## lordsnipe (22/7/09)

thanks for the tip .. I haven't actually bought one yet, just asking whether people still experienced sooty pots after a low flame. I found some threads on here from a few years back but haven't heard anything since.


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## Back Yard Brewer (22/7/09)

lordsnipe said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I'm currently researching natural gas burners for a "wok stove" that I wish to build. Whilst not for brewing beer, you guys seem to be the only forums who seem to discuss high power gas burners.
> 
> ...



I use the 23 jet LPG and if I turn the flame to low, yes it does leave blooky sooty shit over the bottom of the pot. The pot is not that close to the flame, around 75mm. Can't see why it would be any different with a natural gas burner. But I do love my mongolian for those big 85ltr boils. Reckon it could easily do 100+

Cheers
BYB


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## absinthe (23/7/09)

they will always be dirty as the need high speed gas to suck in the air.. you should try and build a forced air burner like i use for my still and boil kettle.

it burns clean no matter how high or low you set it..

the "almost" finished burner:



the prototype:


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## Barramundi (23/7/09)

ive never had my mongolian soot up as described here , and i run a second hand unknown quantity BBQ regulator on it


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## absinthe (24/7/09)

absinthe said:


> they will always be dirty as the need high speed gas to suck in the air.. you should try and build a forced air burner like i use for my still and boil kettle.
> 
> it burns clean no matter how high or low you set it..
> 
> ...




sorry i ment to say will always run dirty at low settings, they are ment to be HOT, not to have fine control


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## pants (24/7/09)

I have the burner described (23 jet, natural gas), and it burns very cleanly. I haven't used it to brew with yet (first time will be tomorrow), but there has been no sign of soot whatsoever during testing, at any flame setting. I'm very pleased with it. The flame is controlled by a ball valve which is connected between the burner and the regulator for NG, apparently for LPG an adjustable regulator can be used.

Steve.


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## Back Yard Brewer (24/7/09)

pants said:


> apparently for LPG an adjustable regulator can be used.
> 
> Steve.






If that is the case my burner must be a dud. I have tried using two different types of adjustable reg's that I have and neither work. My mongolian will only work on the normal type barby reg and shit does it burn. (as you will see in my earlier post)

BYB


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## Darren (24/7/09)

Yep, Mine soots on low too. Apparently some people have put bolts in some of the jet holes to stop the problem (I think it was Asher)

cheers

Darren


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## cloudy (24/7/09)

yep as stated earlier they are designed to run flat out.


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## pants (26/7/09)

I used my Mongolian burner for the first time yesterday, and I was very pleased with the results. I ran it at low flame for a while when approaching strike temperature, the flame yellowed, but there was only a fine coating of soot on the bottom of the kettle, which wiped off with a sponge. I took some pictures so you can see my setup:

The complete setup:



A close up of the regulator:



Heating up the strike water:



Cheers, Steve.


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## reVoxAHB (26/7/09)

I have a 23 jet on NG and it does soot on low flame, but nothing excessive. I shoot it off at cleanup with the garden sprayer or as you say, a simple wipe with sponge, rinse and it's fine. 

The only time it played issue in my brewday was at a hardware change (was experimenting with false buttoms and my plate chiller clogged). With focus on the stuck chiller, general frustration coupled with not caring about the sooted bottom, I lifted my kettle for dump into fermenter(s) and completely ruined a new white t-shirt.. had soot over my arms and face when wiping forehead, knees of pants, etc. Came into the house and the wife laughed her ass off at my appearance. Was one of those brew days :lol: .

reVox


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## lordsnipe (27/7/09)

thanks for all your comments guys.. I have ordered a 23 jet NG burner from Grain and Grape. Found a place locally where I can buy the 1/2" piping, fittings and ball valve so will eagerly wait for it to arrive so I can put it all together! Just need to source a regulator, hose to bayonet and a stand and should be sweet!


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## Googs (7/10/09)

My 32 jet burner just arrived from Grain & Grape and I must say, I wasn't expecting it would be so BIG!! It looks impressive and I can't wait to see how it goes this weekend. Will be sure to post results.


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## Googs (7/10/09)

Furthermore, just a thought...

Rather than adjusting the gas flow for flame/temp, what about an adjustable tray for the burner to sit on? You could leave it running flat out or at a level that doesn't produce soot and then lower it from the base of the boiler when required.


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## Gopha (8/10/09)

Hi, Mongolian burners are designed to run flat out. Each burner has it own injecter and aeration port, reducing the gas flow restricts the air gas ratio hense a sooty flame. If you find your burner is touch hot for your needs de-tune it by removing a number of the burners and pluging the holes with bolts and sealant.
A good starting point is to remove the centre 4 burners and you will find it perfect. On a point of safety mongolian burners should be used inconjunction with a pilot light and flame fail device. I use a mongolian burner and it is my burner of choice. Cheers


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## IainMcLean (13/5/10)

Gopha, Can you elaborate on the 'flame fail device' you're talking about?


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## brettprevans (13/5/10)

despite BYB issues with adjustable reg (thats really wierd mate), its the way to go. no stuffing about with height/proximity to kettle etc. we used Brendo's mongolian with pressure adjustable reg and it worked a treat. Ive got a mongolian and have to put up with the soot etc but only until i finally get a adjustable reg. its the way to go. but until then the reliable BBQ reg does the trick


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## unrealeous (13/5/10)

Ok not quite on topic - but it does relate to mongolian burners - I have a 20 jet version - pumps out some serious heat, and it was cheap...

Slight issue getting the threaded join to seal on the burner - I'm using a proper tapered thread (which is meant to form a seal) but still a slight leak when you crank it... Is there a hot side equivalent of Teflon tape and where does one get it from... 

Ps - I'm actually thinking I could use teflon tape - it would melt in there and probably seal it up... dodgy though...


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## brettprevans (13/5/10)

Go the Teflon !!!


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## mr_tyreman (13/5/10)

I have the 23jet, using a rather common style 50L boil pot  some may remember my soot issue...when i was sold a NG burner to use with LPG, but since i got the LPG jetted version, i have zero soot issues with it, and its more than capable of boiling up the suspicious 50L pot worth....does it with such ease, i couldn't imagine how good the 32jet is....


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## unrealeous (13/5/10)

OK - I've gone with teflon.. if it doesn't work I'm coming after you CityMorgue  



mr_tyreman said:


> but since i got the LPG jetted version


Did you buy one ready for LPG or did you get your original one converted?


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## brettprevans (13/5/10)

unrealeous said:


> OK - I've gone with teflon.. if it doesn't work I'm coming after you CityMorgue
> 
> 
> Did you buy one ready for LPG or did you get your original one converted?


Bring some booze and well make a party


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## stew.w (14/5/10)

ive got teflon on mine and it hasnt melted or burnt. use the yellow stuff too
you could put loktite/loxeal in it if you were worried about it tho


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## mr_tyreman (15/5/10)

unrealeous said:


> Did you buy one ready for LPG or did you get your original one converted?



the shop i got it from just swapped it for the LPG version, you can buy the LPG/NG Jets and change them yourself, they just screw in/out.

cheers


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## klangers (6/4/17)

unrealeous said:


> Ok not quite on topic - but it does relate to mongolian burners - I have a 20 jet version - pumps out some serious heat, and it was cheap...
> 
> Slight issue getting the threaded join to seal on the burner - I'm using a proper tapered thread (which is meant to form a seal) but still a slight leak when you crank it... Is there a hot side equivalent of Teflon tape and where does one get it from...
> 
> Ps - I'm actually thinking I could use teflon tape - it would melt in there and probably seal it up... dodgy though...


Teflon/PTFE will not melt... it's used on non-stick cookwear! It's designed for exactly this purpose. Tapered threads are not designed to seal but rather to tighten. The PTFE tape does the sealing.

I built my new 23 jet natural gas mongolian burner set up yesterday. It plugs straight into my home natural gas bayonet and consists of a 3m hose, a ball valve (on/off) and a gate valve (for fine flow control). A regulator is not necessary. Flashback preventers are not necessary.

A couple of points that I've seen floating around the forums with respect to natural gas burners to clarify:

Soot is caused by incomplete combustion (yellow flames). This is caused by low air:fuel ratio. I could wind mine all the way down so that the flames were completely enclosed in the brass jets, and no yellow flame appeared. The burners should have open space beneath them so they can draw in combustion air. 
With the fuel consumption of these bad boys, a few metres of standard gas hose will give you all the pressure drop you need (2.5kPa --> 1kPa at burner WITH NAT GAS). There is no added safety benefit of including a regulator.
Flashback preventers are completely unnecessary. Firstly, they are only necessary where the oxidiser (air in our case, oxygen in gas welding) is under pressure and can possibly get pushed down the fuel line. Since the natural gas is at a higher pressure than atmospheric (2.5 kPa above), there is zero chance of this occurring. Secondly, flash back arresters are designed for high pressure gas lines. They will add so much pressure drop to your natural gas setup that it will most likely not pass enough fuel gas 
EDIT: a couple points to clarify that I'm talking about domestic natural gas, not LPG or anything else


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## RdeVjun (6/4/17)

Wow, seven year necro dredge, that has to be a record?!


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## Mardoo (6/4/17)

If you want a range of control that doesn't soot up get one of these burners:

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/261299666550 

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251632798489 

It's doesn't give a huge range of control - there's no simmering with these - but if medium up to blast furnace will do you, these are awesome. You can literally end up with a glowing red wok if you wander off for a minute. I used to use mine with my wok all the time, and actually originally got it for that purpose. Zero trouble handling big amounts of ingredients. I miss it a bit.

Either that or try to score a commercial one from Gray's or other auction house.

Edit: Derp, totally missed the necro.


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## klangers (6/4/17)

Mardoo said:


> If you want a range of control that doesn't soot up get one of these burners:
> 
> https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/261299666550
> 
> ...


Unfortunately these aren't available/suitable for low pressure natural gas. In fact the very reason why they have greater turn down ratio (finer control) is because the high pressure allows mixing of air before the jet. The mongolians mix air post-jet.

The mongolian burner in NG was the best burner I could find for natural gas use.


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## moonhead (6/4/17)

Well, considering this thread has been phoenixed, related question.

What are people using for stands with these burners?

I'm using some refractory bricks to hold up my kettle. Works quite well, but it's a bit of a hassle to set up and pull down. I'm wanting to create a more semi-permanent brew stand, something I can move as a whole, instead of needing to lug around bricks and pavers. Obviously some kind of stand for the pot and holding device for the burner would be needed in that case...

(also, in regards to soot, yea, sooty as a chimney sweeper. But that doesn't worry me much. I don't put my keggle anywhere where i'm precious about the soot coming off. Doesn't appear to have any impact on the overall performance)


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## klangers (6/4/17)

moonhead said:


> Well, considering this thread has been phoenixed, related question.
> 
> What are people using for stands with these burners?
> 
> ...


Yeah I prefer to reignite old threads rather than raise the ire of mods and start new threads on old topics 

I plan to make a kettle stand out of welded SHS steel, and have a shelf under this for the burner to sit on. Nothing terribly fancy as it's going to get rusty as hell once the flames start licking it. Main thing is a windshield, but also enough aperture below the burner to get air into the flame.


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## moonhead (6/4/17)

I was planning the same thing, just without welds, cause (still) no welder. Had a bit of a design in mind mainly to kinda hang the burner on a shelf below the kettle, via some threaded rod. That way I can dial in the exact right height for it instead of relying on pre-cut/made sections.


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## bradsbrew (6/4/17)

moonhead said:


> What are people using for stands with these


Not a mongolian, but this is a stand with a burner inserted.
Cheekypeak had this stand fabricated and delivered for nix, after the legs on the companion burner gave way and spilt 150L of boiling Ipa all over the shed.
Works great. Must get around to having the rest of the rig fabbed up.
That's a 170L kettle sitting on top.


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## Batz (6/4/17)

Try a regulator like this.

Need one? PM me.


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## mash head (6/4/17)

With that reg and a 32 jet burner I reckon you could fill a hot air balloon, I was shooting a 3 foot flame with the reg turned right up but that was only testing in the lets see what this thing can do phase.


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