# Rochefort 10, Westveletern 12



## Kleiny (17/1/10)

Right

I want to try and clone the great rochefort 10 or westveleteren 12

who has a recipe for either? i have searched this and many other references.

These are great beers somebody has to have something close (and talking somebody who has tried their recipes up against the original beer).

Share the recipe

Kleiny


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## Smashin (17/1/10)

Kleiny said:


> Right
> 
> I want to try and clone the great rochefort 10 or westveleteren 12
> 
> ...



Kleiny,

i lubs a tripple & double or two even have a Leffe Vieille Cuvee under under my belt as i type. Personally i found the roche 10 a tad over the top (and over carbonated), but if you luv it you luv it, Belgium styles are my fave.

Sorry i can't add to a specific clone, but i would start with determining the OG and FG (easy if you have a refractometer and hydrometer) and count on (in true Belgium style) candy sugar playing a large part. Either way I'll be keeping an eye on this thread, once the temps drop a bit it's time to get into some higher OG styles.

GL with it,


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## HarryB (17/1/10)

Westvleteren is made only with dingemans pale, dingemans pilsner and candi sugar (have read this in a few of the more well-know books). It gets the colour from a long boil and the sugar.

I'd guess that the rochefort is similar, maybe with some special B as well. I think both use only styrian goldings and or saaz. 3787 would be a good start for the yeast.

someone else might know more!


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## manticle (17/1/10)

Hey Kleiny,

Sinkas posted a recipe for Rochefort 10 in the 'mashing at 78' thread. It looked pretty good. Should be in recent AG posts.


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## RdeVjun (17/1/10)

You're in luck Kleiny, if you haven't got this data then "Brew Like a Monk" by Stan Hieronymus has both:


> Rochefort 10: OG 1.096 (23P), ABV% 11.3, AA% 89, 45 SRM/ 90 EBC, 27 IBU.
> Malts: Pilsener, caramel
> Adjuncts: White sugar, dark sugar, wheat starch
> Spices: Coriander
> ...


Oh wait, no other details for 12... sorry.

Hope that helps! :icon_cheers:


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## Gulpa (17/1/10)

The book Beer Captured has a recipe for the Westvleteren and the Rochefort. I made the Westvleteren last year and its delicious. Ive go no idea if its anything like the original but its so good I dont really care.

cheers
Andrew.


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## Vlad the Pale Aler (17/1/10)

Google is your friend.

Rochefort 10 clone

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
32.4 5.00 lbs. Gleneagle's Maris Otter Pale Great Britain 1.038 5
32.4 5.00 lbs. Pilsener Belgium 1.037 2
8.1 1.25 lbs. Honey Pennsylvania 1.042 0
6.5 1.00 lbs. Candi Sugar (clear) Generic 1.046 1
6.5 1.00 lbs. Candi Sugar (dark) Generic 1.046 275
9.7 1.50 lbs. CaraMunich Malt Belgium 1.033 75
3.2 0.50 lbs. Special B Malt Belgian 1.030 120
1.2 0.19 lbs. Carafa Special Germany 1.030 600

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.00 oz. Goldings - E.K. Whole 6.00 16.5 First WH
1.00 oz. Styrian Goldings Pellet 3.50 10.5 50 min.
0.50 oz. Fuggle Pellet 4.00 4.8 30 min.
1.00 oz. Hersbrucker Pellet 3.80 4.3 10 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.20 Oz Coriander Seed Spice 5 Min.(boil)
0.25 gm Grains of Paradise Spice 5 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

WYeast 1762 Belgian Abbey II


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## Vlad the Pale Aler (17/1/10)

..or this one



Rochefort 10 Clone
Brew Type: All Grain Date: 2/12/2006
Style: Belgian Dark Strong Ale Brewer: Sean Paxton
Batch Size: 6.00 gal Assistant Brewer:
Boil Volume: 7.23 gal Boil Time: 90 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %



Amount Item Type
6.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) (1.6 SRM) Grain
3.00 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain
1.50 lb Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain
1.50 lb Caravienne Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain
1.00 lb Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain
0.50 lb Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain
0.25 lb Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain


5 min Mash Ingredients
Step: Add 20.63 qt of water at 143.5 F
30 min - Hold mash at 135.0 F for 30 min
5 min Step: Decoct 3.24 qt of mash and boil it
30 min - Hold mash at 145.0 F for 30 min
5 min Step: Decoct 7.44 qt of mash and boil it
30 min - Hold mash at 165.0 F for 30 min
5 min Step: Decoct 3.71 qt of mash and boil it
15 min - Hold mash at 172.0 F for 15 min
-- Sparge with 3.72 gal of 172.0 F water.
-- Add water to achieve boil volume of 7.23 gal
-- Estimated Pre-boil Gravity is: 1.083 SG with all grains/extracts added


Boil for 90 min Start to Boil
Amount Item Type
1.00 lb Brown Sugar, Dark (50.0 SRM) Sugar
1.00 lb Candi Sugar, Clear (0.5 SRM) Sugar
1.00 lb Candi Sugar, Dark (275.0 SRM) Sugar
1.00 lb Dark Rock Candi Syrup (500.0 SRM) Sugar
1.00 lb Turbinado (10.0 SRM) Sugar
0.69 lb Date Sugar (3.0 SRM) Sugar

30 min into boil Add 1.00 oz Kent Goldings [5.90%] (60 min)
30 min into boil Add 1.50 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.90%] (60 min)
60 min into boil Add 0.50 oz Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.90%] (30 min)
75 min into boil Add 1.00 items Servomyces Yeast Nutrient (Boil 15.0 min)
75 min into boil Add 5.00 gm Coriander Seed (Boil 15.0 min)


1 Pkgs Belgian Abbey II (Wyeast Labs #1762) [Starter 125 ml] [Add to Secondary] Yeast-Ale


Notes
For Bottling, added 2 oz rock candy, 2 oz turbonado sugar and 2 oz dark candi syrup.


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## Duff (17/1/10)

After typing Rochefort into the search button above, in one of the 7 pages this link can be found.

Of particular interest is a post by Doc - post 3. Take a look at the attached pdf file.


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## lael (15/12/15)

ok, so a few people PM'd me to ask for the Westy XII, Quadruppel, Westvleteren 12 recipe I used and commented on. So... I am going to post it here after doing a search and noticing that this thread came up first (hence the triple naming for future searchers).

This post http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/17200-rochefort-10/#entry234240 looks interesting - "Inside Rochefort."

I've read the stuff in BLAM, and the notes I'm posting here are largely other people's notes, with links etc. I made my own candi syrup / candy syrup / candi sugar (search terms) - about three batches / four batches of around 1kg or more each. I would encourage you to make a lot if you do it as if you invert it correctly and raise the temp a final time you will get a nicely thick (condensed) syrup that is shelf stable and tastes great. I experimented with a bunch of recipes... actually - I'll post my notes on it here as well - also largely from other people, but hopefully it will save people research and time.

having trouble uploading. Will post and try to edit.

upload/attach isn't happy:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9mb769oyy5vw1ic/LaelsWestyXII%20notes.docx?dl=0 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/y5s1ml98bqo7zbs/LaelsCandySyrup%20notes.docx?dl=0 

With the Westy XII I used the top recipe - pious xii. It is delicious. Start with a big pitch (3787 into a 2L starter stepped 3 times for mine) and use a blow-off tube into sterilised water. Collect the 'top-cropped' yeast for bottling / re-pitching after the first lot starts to lag. Step the fermentation slowly to create the flavour profile and encourage full attenuation.

I didn't do anything special in the brewing process - standard mash (low for dry body) and stepped using the Brauduino controller. I put in most of the candi syrup during the boil and around a 1/3rd at flameout / a few mins before the end. (appx 5mins @100 + 5mins until it gets below 80C for me when chilling - works fine maybe throw it in 10mins if you are concerned about bacteria etc).

Candi syrup - I've found the best flavours are from triple heat to 290F (instructions were from USA and that is what I remember). If you go above 295/300 you will start to get acrid flavours from burning. You need to be attentive! I was reasonably liberal with the DAP - in the later batches putting in a tbsp just before it would hit maillard temps. One problem I did have was that you can get a layer of candi syrup forming on the temperature probe which insulates the probe and gives you false readings. Total time for a small batch or large was roughly similar (45mins to an hour) and large are easier to manage the temperature.

I didn't find much difference between using yeast nutrient vs using DAP, though with one batch of yeast nutrient it brought out stronger vanilla and chocolate flavours at lower temps. I found that once you heat through those flavour layers, that flavour disappears a little. From memory I was getting sugar, vanilla, light fruit, red wine, chocolate, plum, oakey combinations of the below with deep wine and plum as the rough progressions of flavour. Different sugars produce different flavours. I would recommend the organic brown sugar from woollies as cost effective and the best range of flavours (of course the process for each was not entirely identical). I haven't done it yet, but Bollington's is out now with muscavado and turbinado sugars (less processed - ie: not white sugar with molasses added back in) which should give better flavours (more $$). Palm sugar gave an interesting flavour. The one thing I didn't do, which I may do over Christmas is to make some with dehydrated date powder - apparently it amps the flavour up a LOT.

As I made a few batches, I mixed the three of them to get a flavour profile I liked and was quite liberal with it in the batch (it's a thicker syrup than you buy from D2 or CSI if you finish the syrup @ 240F ) - using appx 1.3 times the amount stated in the recipe. I'll probably make a very large batch (3-4Kgs) next time and pull a portion of the sugar at different flavours and blend them to see if it retains a more distinct flavour profile. It is time consuming and sticky to make, and relatively easy to destroy batches. I think I planned to spend an afternoon making a batch once and finished in the evening after some burnt batches and a couple of good ones. It is fun, and delicious though!

I'm pretty sure the FG is slightly higher than in the beer - as I was a couple of points higher than expected on both batches I've made. I think the commercial syrup may give a better result in that regard. In terms of saving money. To be honest - it is messy and time consuming to make your own. It's fun and you will save money and you can easily make more, but if you can get the syrup relatively easily with another brew order, it will be easier for sure.

Have fun!


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## Ferg (6/1/16)

This should make for some tasty research!
Lael you mentioned for the mash you stepped it - do you have any specific temps or times? Presumably you didn't do the decoction?
Excited to put my new controller through its paces!


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## lael (6/1/16)

Oooh... That looks good! I'm visiting some friends at the moment. I'll check when I get back. It was stepped, but from memory largely a low mash temp to get high ferment ability.


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## hairydog (6/1/16)

Candisyrup.com has some good clone recipes.


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## Mardoo (6/1/16)

They're great recipes, and they test them thoroughly before releasing them.


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## Ferg (8/1/16)

Yeah funny enough I'm probably going to go with one of the two recipes attached. I will be using the candi sugar from Grain & Grape though, probably a 50/50 mixture of Dark 1 & 2. 

View attachment westvleteren_12_clone_-_040.pdf


View attachment westvleteren_12_clone_-_single_malt_040.pdf


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## Mardoo (8/1/16)

I did a mini bulk buy of the Candisyrup.com syrups a couple years ago. They're lovely stuff, but I can't say it's worth the cost of getting them here.


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## lael (8/1/16)

Ferg - I didn't do any decoctions, though from memory some people talk about removing part of the wort (post sparge) and boiling it down to a thicker consistency to add flavour. I didn't try that, but might in the future. 

The only information I have on beersmith is a step at 64 for 75mins and mash out. To be honest I'm not sure if that is what I did or not... Sorry!

Edit: 
original thread: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f73/pious-westvleteren-12-style-quad-multiple-147815/ 

and the rest of the beersmith file looks right, so lets assume that the mash schedule is also right.


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## goatchop41 (8/1/16)

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=147815

I'm hesitant to plug a post from a different forum, but this is one of the highest rated recipes on HBT, and according to the poster, even beat the REAL Westvleteren 12 in a competition.
There are two recipes - the first uses specialty malts and a single infusion mash (this is the one that beat the original beer in the comp.), the second uses no spec. malts but has more dark Belgian candi sugar and a decoction mash


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## barls (8/1/16)

Mardoo said:


> I did a mini bulk buy of the Candisyrup.com syrups a couple years ago. They're lovely stuff, but I can't say it's worth the cost of getting them here.


what was shipping roughly?


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## goatchop41 (8/1/16)

Also, if you are interested in making your own authentic candi syrup, read this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/3sjgyy/advanced_brewers_roundtable_sugar/

There is extensive discussion on there regarding the difference between making inverted syrup/brewers caramel and actual candi syrup - there are multiple websites with instructions for making 'candi sugar', but apparently these all just show you how to make inverted sugar (they only add acid, whereas candi syrup requires the addition of acid first to invert the sugar, then a base to alkanlinise it).


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## Mardoo (8/1/16)

barls said:


> what was shipping roughly?


$80 US for 12 pounds, roughly 5.5 kg (12 bags, as they sell by the pound). At the time, when the exchange rate was MUCH more favourable it came out to be roughly equal to buying candi syrups currently available here. It was $159 US all up for 12 pounds and shipping, which is $225 AU today, and $169 AU when I bought them.

It looks like they have some shipping-included deals now for international orders, so it may be a better price now. Perhaps contact their re-seller if you're interested (look at the International value packs text halfway down the page).

I was seriously considering trying to distribute their syrups here. I talked to them about buying in bulk to re-package and they said that flavour would suffer after a month or so, whereas their 1-pound packs stay fresh for at least a year. Based on my experience I'd agree. I opened a pack, used some, left it a couple months, and then compared it to a freshly opened. They have some great subtleties, and adding their golden to pale ales became a favourite of mine, but I don't think the subtleties survive long ferments and long ageing to a degree that makes the extra effort and expense worth it. If I were in the States I'd choose them, hands down, but for the amount of difference they make - to my palate - it's just not worth it to Oz until the price is very close to the syrups currently available here.


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## barls (8/1/16)

Mardoo said:


> $80 US for 12 pounds, roughly 5.5 kg (12 bags, as they sell by the pound). At the time, when the exchange rate was MUCH more favourable it came out to be roughly equal to buying candi syrups currently available here. It was $159 US all up for 12 pounds and shipping, which is $225 AU today, and $169 AU when I bought them.
> 
> It looks like they have some shipping-included deals now for international orders, so it may be a better price now. Perhaps contact their re-seller if you're interested (look at the International value packs text halfway down the page).
> 
> I was seriously considering trying to distribute their syrups here. I talked to them about buying in bulk to re-package and they said that flavour would suffer after a month or so, whereas their 1-pound packs stay fresh for at least a year. Based on my experience I'd agree. I opened a pack, used some, left it a couple months, and then compared it to a freshly opened. They have some great subtleties, and adding their golden to pale ales became a favourite of mine, but I don't think the subtleties survive long ferments and long ageing to a degree that makes the extra effort and expense worth it. If I were in the States I'd choose them, hands down, but for the amount of difference they make - to my palate - it's just not worth it to Oz until the price is very close to the syrups currently available here.


thanks mate.


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## stomachshoulders (11/1/16)

I'm no expert but when starting all grain a quad was number 1 on my list of styles to brew. I went with White Labs trappist blend (575). I used a lot of Special B and dumped muscovado sugar during primary fermentation. This thing went gangbusters after 12hrs (crash course in blow-off tubes), and fermented all the way down very quickly.

here's my recipe if you'd like a gander - I'd say it sits somewhere between the biscuityness of a round chimay blue and the spice of a rochefort: tastes delicious after three months.

http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/990961/you-cant-deny-my-girth

20L batch size

6kg Pilsner
600g Caramunich
500g Special B
300g Aurora
100g Acidulated
100g Carafa
100g Oats

40g Styrian Goldings @ 60min
450g Light Candi Sugar @ flame-out

450g Muscovado sugar @ primary


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