# Fermenter King Jr - review or feedback



## trustyrusty (19/1/21)

Hi I was thinking of getting one, even just for storage with neoprene cover. I was watching a review and the guy said it leaks through pvr? He didn’t say which company. Are there 2 versions now from different companies? According this site Keg King is 540mm and I saw dimensions in another drawing - looked very similar and was 586mm - but that was bottom to post top? So 540mm might not to top of post. Anyhow as I understand there is a new cap with mini lid, so locks inside and pressure keeps it sealed?

I would like to try pressure fermenter and I need 590m clearance for my bar fridge. Not sure how much clearance with spunding valve on .. I have 3 dimensions 540mm according to this site (ceo keg king) 559mm, and 586.9mm .. different sources on net.

Also cleaning with a heavy krausen sometimes can be stuck on, and not being able to boiling water might be hard to clean...
Thanks


----------



## Hangover68 (19/1/21)

Spunding valve is no higher than a standard ball lock fitting, as i understand it FK JR is only made/sold by one supplier/manufacturer. The neck is large enough to get a hand in to clean so you don't need use boiling water which would melt the tank.


----------



## Grmblz (19/1/21)

trustyrusty said:


> Hi I was thinking of getting one, even just for storage with neoprene cover. I was watching a review and the guy said it leaks through pvr? He didn’t say which company. Are there 2 versions now from different companies? According this site Keg King is 540mm and I saw dimensions in another drawing - looked very similar and was 586mm - but that was bottom to post top? So 540mm might not to top of post. Anyhow as I understand there is a new cap with mini lid, so locks inside and pressure keeps it sealed?
> 
> I would like to try pressure fermenter and I need 590m clearance for my bar fridge. Not sure how much clearance with spunding valve on .. I have 3 dimensions 540mm according to this site (ceo keg king) 559mm, and 586.9mm .. different sources on net.
> 
> ...


This is a KK FKJ, I'm not aware of any other manufacturer/supplier.
The pressure relief valve doesn't leak but is set quite low, mine holds 15psi no problem, starts to vent at about 25psi.
I've got 2 of them and they're really handy, highly recommended.
At 638mm high though it looks like they wont fit your fridge unfortunately.


----------



## carrobrew (19/1/21)

My local LHBS carries the Keg King Fermenters and says they are awesome.

He said as long as you clean them after you package and don't pressurize them up past reccommended then they work really well.

I have not personally used though so take with a grain of salt


----------



## trustyrusty (19/1/21)

Grmblz said:


> This is a KK FKJ, I'm not aware of any other manufacturer/supplier.
> The pressure relief valve doesn't leak but is set quite low, mine holds 15psi no problem, starts to vent at about 25psi.
> I've got 2 of them and they're really handy, highly recommended.
> At 638mm high though it looks like they wont fit your fridge unfortunately.


I guess you dont really need more than 25 psi, 

Thanks cheers


----------



## trustyrusty (19/1/21)

Grmblz said:


> This is a KK FKJ, I'm not aware of any other manufacturer/supplier.
> The pressure relief valve doesn't leak but is set quite low, mine holds 15psi no problem, starts to vent at about 25psi.
> I've got 2 of them and they're really handy, highly recommended.
> At 638mm high though it looks like they wont fit your fridge unfortunately.


I guess you could add a tube to the grey out let and it sits lower, or just turn them to lowest height,

How tall is it to the top of the post with grey ball lock? I need 610mm clearance ... 

thanks


----------



## kadmium (19/1/21)

You can buy 15PSI PRV and go with no spunding valve.


----------



## Grmblz (19/1/21)

That's a piece of copper pipe balancing on the top of the posts, pic 2 has a bit of parallax error it's exactly 603mm, pic 1 was an attempt to show the posts.
As per previous photo #3, it's 638mm to the top of the grey disconnect, I've got a few different disconnects, and none are any shorter than the one shown.


----------



## trustyrusty (19/1/21)

Grmblz said:


> That's a piece of copper pipe balancing on the top of the posts, pic 2 has a bit of parallax error it's exactly 603mm, pic 1 was an attempt to show the posts.
> As per previous photo #3, it's 638mm to the top of the grey disconnect, I've got a few different disconnects, and none are any shorter than the one shown.



Thanks


----------



## trustyrusty (19/1/21)

kadmium said:


> You can buy 15PSI PRV and go with no spunding valve.



Thanks sounds like a plan, is there a reason you would need more than 15psi anyway? When fermenting that is, ? I can anything I need in other cold fridge


----------



## kadmium (19/1/21)

In my opinion 15PSI is plenty. Also gives leeway if it's not exactly 15 if that makes sense.


----------



## trustyrusty (20/1/21)

What do you guys use for? Small batch or fresh worts,

I use kits, so I was think how I would be able to keep 5 litres wort and store until it adds up to 18 litres with extras, if I make same beer or maybe just add all together and make a mix...bit different. 

Its a pity they don't make a wider one that would take 23 lt? Its the height I need to bigger than 61cm, and for most people if using a small fridge would be the same.


----------



## Grmblz (20/1/21)

I use mine for small batch (12L) and cider (15L) little to no krausen on cider, FWK's are typically 15L due to shipping costs, and you usually add 3-5L of boiled water to make up the batch, if using a FWK I just dump it in without the extra water, ends up a bit stronger, and not exactly to style but still makes excellent beer.

Is there any way you could afford $200 for a different fridge? Mitsubishi Electric Frost Free Upright Freezer | Fridges & Freezers | Gumtree Australia Penrith Area - Claremont Meadows | 1266279966 is an indication of what's available, a freezer is preferable to a fridge, much better insulation helps with cooling, and also keeping the heat in if using Kveik or in the winter, and they usually have a better compressor, so are quite a bit cheaper to run than a fridge. 
The floor space is pretty much the same, small fridges just tend to be shorter. Gumtree or FB's market place are good starting places to look, one of mine actually cost $80 but it took a while for it to come up, so patience is necessary if you want a real bargain.
Let us know if it's something you'd look at, as there's a couple of things you need to watch out for.


----------



## trustyrusty (20/1/21)

mmmm It is a possibility, I have another beer/keg fridge - If I could swap for one of those fridges that have large freezer area/ and fridge. Would it be possible to control the temp of each section - somehow. Is there a controller for that, I have inkbird.. I cannot get another larger fridge, that's why I like the bar fridge size for fermenting. I had this crazy idea of getting two juniors and daisy change them when fermenting but will be about 20cm too large.


----------



## Staggerin (20/1/21)

Hi,

I have a couple of these now and I use them for normal and pressure fermenting and for serving kegs.

I know some on here won't like that but they work fine for me.

I have made kits to 18L in these and when the brew is finished I CC and then connect up to my taps. They have worked fine, my beer normally doesn't last very long so Im not worried about leaving the beer on the trub or oxidization.

For my AG I ferment in one of these and then closed transfer to another for serving.

The only tip I would have is to lubricate the posts that come with them as they can be a bit tight with some disconnects.

Ill be getting more of these soon.


----------



## Eric Beck (20/1/21)

Does anyone know why there is the outlet part near the neck with the small bung? I recently bought two and keen to try them for small batch ferments and also as kegs.


----------



## trustyrusty (20/1/21)

Staggerin said:


> Hi,
> 
> I have a couple of these now and I use them for normal and pressure fermenting and for serving kegs.
> 
> ...



So you dont mind losing 5 litres?, I was thinking of maybe 2 cans, and 1 fermentables to bring to 36 litres. Keep one under pressure and ferment, the other under pressure without yeast until other ready. Would a recipe like that work?


----------



## Grmblz (20/1/21)

The only way (practically) to have separate control of fridge and freezer is if it has two compressors, and only the really high end manufacturers do this.
I've got a Smeg dual compressor but in reality the temp difference when trying to use the freezer at -18c and the fridge at 18c+ just results in the compressors running almost continuously.
Have a look at some of my fridges for rough ideas about what height is required, the small one is a two tap serving fridge that doubles as a fermenting fridge if needed. The Smeg is really tall but having the fridge above the freezer makes for an easy height (no bending over)

If you fill a keg with wort without yeast it WILL become infected, sooner or later, probably sooner, don't confuse this with hot cubing, they're very different things, so no, it wont work.


----------



## Staggerin (20/1/21)

No, Im not worried about the 5lts, just makes it a bit stronger but not too much extra bitterness.

Why dont you just hold off on the other kit till the first is ready or are you talking about using two different extracts for one beer?

I dont know what the effects of leaving a kit open without yeast. Maybe it would be prone to infection if your process is not spot on? I would just run both at the same time if that was the case.


----------



## Staggerin (20/1/21)

Eric Beck said:


> Does anyone know why there is the outlet part near the neck with the small bung? I recently bought two and keen to try them for small batch ferments and also as kegs.


I believe that is because they use the same mould for something else


----------



## trustyrusty (20/1/21)

Staggerin said:


> I dont know what the effects of leaving a kit open without yeast


I was not going to leave it open, I was going to keep in 2nd Junior, under pressure with CO2, add yeast when ready to go into Fermenting fridge, it would the same as storing beer in a keg, just not carbonated - isn't that cubing or have I got the wrong terminology.


----------



## Staggerin (20/1/21)

I understand its under C02 but I would still be scared that it would get infected during the transfer etc.

I haven't tried cubing but I believe you do that with hot wort and then seal the cube with no air.

Why would do you need to do that anyway, can't you just make up the one kit or are you using two different extract cans?


----------



## Grmblz (20/1/21)

Eric Beck said:


> Does anyone know why there is the outlet part near the neck with the small bung? I recently bought two and keen to try them for small batch ferments and also as kegs.


They are also used as one way kegs in the commercial environment, and the outlet you're talking about houses a pressure relief valve.


----------



## Grmblz (20/1/21)

Hot cubing: 90c+ wort is poured into the cube, the cube is squeezed to remove any air and sealed, it is then inverted and rolled around so that all surfaces come into contact with the hot wort, this pasteurises the container (similar to sanitised, not to be confused with sterilised)
This can't be done with a PET container because it will melt with the heat, cubes are made from HDPE.
CO2, under pressure or not, offers NO protection against infection, air in the wort will support aerobic bacteria, and anaerobic bacteria will survive in an oxygen free environment.
Broadly speaking pasteurisation is 72c for 15sec's, there's a relationship between time and temp however it needs to be way above 50c which is the max temp for PET.
Don't forget that the air we breath is full of bacteria, one of the more common causes of infection is new brewers opening the fermenter for "a quick look" and exhaling.


----------



## trustyrusty (20/1/21)

I was not going to transfer, I am planning on having 2 vessels, the one waiting to be fermented, will have co2 in it, and pressurised, would that be ok. ? Same as storing beer after? but if no good as grmblz says I wont bother, So you are saying this is no good for storing beer, wouldnt the same rules apply - unless once its alcohol has less chance of infection, thanks


----------



## Grmblz (20/1/21)

Wort and beer are two very different things, wort is chock full of nutrients and sugars, this is what the yeast uses during fermentation, beer has very little by comparison (the yeast has used it) this is oversimplified, alcohol plays a role as does hops, and many other things, but I think you get the gist of why it's a bad idea.
Next time you do a brew half fill a sanitised bottle with wort before adding any yeast, plug it with cotton wool (do NOT cap it) and stick it on a shelf somewhere, watch the biology experiment


----------



## kadmium (20/1/21)

trustyrusty said:


> I was not going to transfer, I am planning on having 2 vessels, the one waiting to be fermented, will have co2 in it, and pressurised, would that be ok. ? Same as storing beer after? but if no good as grmblz says I wont bother, So you are saying this is no good for storing beer, wouldnt the same rules apply - unless once its alcohol has less chance of infection, thanks


Wort (unfermented beer) is a sugar rich, acceptable pH, alcohol free breeding ground for bacteria, wild yeast and other nasties. 

Beer, is the fermenter version which has alcohol (inhibits infection), no oxygen (used up during fermentation), low pH (adjusted by the yeast during fermentation) and no sugars (eaten by the yeast)

Co2 in the fermenter will not make any difference as its been introduced to oxygen and had wild yeast and bacteria introduced by pouring it, or simply opening the kits. 

You can't store wort that has been exposed to air, which is why cubing (hot cubing) is OK because it's at pasteurisation temps when placed in the cube and then sealed. Once it's open its game over.


----------



## HungryTradie (20/1/21)

Grmblz said:


> The only way (practically) to have separate control of fridge and freezer is if it has two compressors,


Or 2 refrigerant metering devices (TX valve IR capillary, or electronic expansion valve). 
Regardless, it is quite a stretch to get 1 machine to provide -18°c as well as +18°c to a +-2°c tolerance.


----------



## Grmblz (20/1/21)

Ahaaa, we have a fridgie on board


----------



## HungryTradie (20/1/21)

Grmblz said:


> Ahaaa, we have a fridgie on board


I came for some sous vide advice .... But you have my interest!


----------



## Grmblz (20/1/21)

Welcome to the forum HT, no such thing as too many tradie's imho.
Refrigeration/temp control is key in our hobby, so hopefully you'll stick around and share your expertise.
Way too many reports of Chinese kegerators gurgling along, whilst whining and whirring at the slightest provocation.
Looking forward to seeing some of the questions you will probably get.

Sous vide! what would you like to know? I've got a bath, and a stick, been playing around with it for a couple of years now.

I have an interest in cooking, was a London Landlord many years ago, and guess who does the cooking when the chef phones in sick, so I did a condensed chef's course, never worked as a chef for a living but did my fair share in the kitchen, and it sort of grew on me, now retired I love doing arty, farty, chefy, stuff just to bewilder my friends and relo's.

To be honest I've found it a bit over-rated, especially with steak's, but if I can be of assistance fire away.

Cheers G


----------



## Keg King (21/1/21)

Eric Beck said:


> Does anyone know why there is the outlet part near the neck with the small bung? I recently bought two and keen to try them for small batch ferments and also as kegs.


We utilise a keg mold so that contains a PRV when A or D type valves are used.


----------



## trustyrusty (21/1/21)

Thanks , that’s why you ask questions


----------



## Beer Tosser (4/4/21)

Hi Trustyrusty

I bought a Fermzilla All Rounder from Kegland then a few days later won a national competition with iKegger and won a Fermenter King and other beer gear. Very lucky and extremely grateful. I had initial problems maintaining pressure with my Fermzilla and I troubleshooted through it until I seemed to have fixed the issue and it's holding pressure well.
I hadn't used my Fermenter King until yesterday when I tried my first fresh wort kit. OMG so easy but probably less fun for you hardened enthusiasts. Anyway, this morning checked the Fermenter King and the gauge on the spunding valve is reading zero, with little or no pressure from the pressure release valve but Krausen is off and running nicely. First observation is the Fermenter King seems to have too many bits that could potentially be failing. Obviously the carbonation caps is a possibility, which for the FK you have to assemble. There is also the thermowell and the pressure release valve assembly which could both be culprits. If I was a gambling person I would lay money on the PRV assembly. 
I know this is an old post so you've probably made the right decision by now. Hope it's going well for you.


----------



## Keg King (5/4/21)

Beer Tosser said:


> Hi Trustyrusty
> 
> I bought a Fermzilla All Rounder from Kegland then a few days later won a national competition with iKegger and won a Fermenter King and other beer gear. Very lucky and extremely grateful. I had initial problems maintaining pressure with my Fermzilla and I troubleshooted through it until I seemed to have fixed the issue and it's holding pressure well.
> I hadn't used my Fermenter King until yesterday when I tried my first fresh wort kit. OMG so easy but probably less fun for you hardened enthusiasts. Anyway, this morning checked the Fermenter King and the gauge on the spunding valve is reading zero, with little or no pressure from the pressure release valve but Krausen is off and running nicely. First observation is the Fermenter King seems to have too many bits that could potentially be failing. Obviously the carbonation caps is a possibility, which for the FK you have to assemble. There is also the thermowell and the pressure release valve assembly which could both be culprits. If I was a gambling person I would lay money on the PRV assembly.
> I know this is an old post so you've probably made the right decision by now. Hope it's going well for you.


Before you use something like this we would suggest using a small amount of lube on all the O-rings. They can dry out over a period of time. Are you using our spunding valve or a Spundit? If not then check that what you have is working right. As the fermentation is happening you should not have any oxygen ingress.


----------



## yankinoz (12/9/21)

From the pictures and descriptions of the Fermenter King Junior, it looks like you need pressure from a gas tank to dispense the beer, whether by bottling, kegging or serving. Even if you pressure ferment or spund, the starting pressure won't be enough to empty the FKJ. Is that correct? Or are pumping or siphoning options?


----------



## Beer Tosser (12/9/21)

Keg King said:


> Before you use something like this we would suggest using a small amount of lube on all the O-rings. They can dry out over a period of time. Are you using our spunding valve or a Spundit? If not then check that what you have is working right. As the fermentation is happening you should not have any oxygen ingress.


Hi, Sorry I didn't see your reply earlier. I use a spunding valve and it's working fine on my other kit. The lid that came with the fermenter king leaked from around the pressure release valve and no amount of lube fixed it. In the end, I purchased a replacement lid for a fermentasaurus and that works fine.


----------



## Beer Tosser (12/9/21)

yankinoz said:


> From the pictures and descriptions of the Fermenter King Junior, it looks like you need pressure from a gas tank to dispense the beer, whether by bottling, kegging or serving. Even if you pressure ferment or spund, the starting pressure won't be enough to empty the FKJ. Is that correct? Or are pumping or siphoning options?


Yes, that is correct. Pressure would drop to zero and I needed to gas it up to get it into the corny. All is well now because I purchased a replacement lid for a fermentasaurus and that works fine.


----------



## Keg King (13/9/21)

Staggerin said:


> I believe that is because they use the same mould for something else


Mould has now been changed so you will not have those on future models.


----------

