# Tooheys New All grain recipe



## Seato (22/10/14)

Before casting judgement on the beer choice, please read on...

My old man has drank Tooheys Draught now New for at least 3 decades. He has quite enjoyed some of the APAs and IPAs that I have had on tap, this was a slow and painful process, but he now comes to our place without his own supply. I would like to pull off an New All Grain batch for Christmas for Dad and a big portion of the relatives. 

I know this has been covered before but I'll lay out my plan of attack and any advice would be appreciated.

50 lt batch in keg king two pot system. 

9kg Pilsner malt
3kg Munich malt
1kg medium crystal

Mash at 62-64 for 60 minutes. 

60g Pride of Ringwood for 60min
20g Pride of Ringwood for 0min

Chill to 18 degrees and ferment at 12 degrees for 14 days with W34/70 in fermenter fridge. 

Rack and add gelatine and chill at 2 degrees for 14 days. 

Keg and wait for judgement. 

Advice?


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## dblunn (22/10/14)

At the lower mash temp maybe 90 min might be better.
After all your hard work to enlighten him his response to your kind gesture might be "what's this shit?"
Dave


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## Eagleburger (22/10/14)

A lot of crystal. 

I tried a TN clone for my friend. 50-50 BB ale and BB pale, 1 g per litre por at 60 . It was very easy drinker but not TN.next time i try i am going to do 75-25 ale-pale and up the poo too. I was a little scard to drop it later in the boil, but I will try it.


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## marksy (22/10/14)

Let me know how you go, my dad loves his TN also.


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## Moad (22/10/14)

Eagleburger said:


> A lot of crystal.
> 
> I tried a TN clone for my friend. 50-50 BB ale and BB pale, 1 g per litre por at 60 . It was very easy drinker but not TN.next time i try i am going to do 75-25 ale-pale and up the *poo* too. I was a little scard to drop it later in the boil, but I will try it.


I try and drop them during the mash so to avoid boilovers while im away from the brewery


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## S.E (22/10/14)

Eagleburger said:


> and up the poo too.


Don’t know about the poo, most on here agree the dominant flavour is wee.

(sorry couldn’t resist, really didn't want to start the urine jokes in this thread though)


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## Spookhud (22/10/14)

Mine too


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## Midnight Brew (22/10/14)

Seen a few mega swill clone threads on AHB and this thread has some great advice. Different beer yes but wouldnt be far off. Worth PMing Bribie too for some advice as he has done a few himself and plenty of research. Here is a thread: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/82974-very-close-to-vb/

Also I think your grist would be more like just ale malt and a touch of roast barley. Cluster or Pride of Ringwood to bitter and a lager yeast fermented a bit warmer. Aim for 4.5% with a dry finish. Also worth reading through the XXXX clone threads and the Carlton Draught threads.


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## klangers (23/10/14)

I'd drop some of the pale and add dextrose. I'm also sceptical if they use any crystal. I'm out at Tooheys tomorrow- would you like me to ask the brewers what they actually use?


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## sluggerdog (23/10/14)

For what it's worth I made my first aussie lager recently using only a 60 min addition of POR to 25IBU. I was quite surprised how much the hop flavour came though with this. I'd be inclined to drop the 0 min hops and leave it as a 60 min additional only (or maybe a 60 min and a 30 min). Mine was a general aussie lager, not tooheys specific so I'm not sure on the differences.


My recipe was 85% Pale, 10% Munich, 5% Sugar and the 60 min POR. Mash low for 90 mins. Will be doing this again soon, very simple and easy to drink.


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## mkstalen (23/10/14)

I've got an Aussie Lager in the fermenter now. My recipe was.
80% Pilsner, 6% Carapils, 12% Rice, 2% Sucrose.
75min mash @ 65deg
60 min - POR for 15 IBU
20 min - POR for 5 IBU and Galaxy for 4 IBU
Fermenting with Czech Pilsner Wy#2278 yeast @ 11deg.
OG 1.044, est FG~1.008

Had a taste from the hydro reading the other day and it's tasting pretty mega swill-ish. Should be easy drinking on a hot summer day.


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## Seato (23/10/14)

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I was rethinking the crystal quantity anyway. Will repost once I've got my modified brew mate recipe. I am waiting till my Tooheys Intel comes in. 

Thanks for that Klangers


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## dicko (23/10/14)

sluggerdog said:


> For what it's worth I made my first aussie lager recently using only a 60 min addition of POR to 25IBU. I was quite surprised how much the hop flavour came though with this. I'd be inclined to drop the 0 min hops and leave it as a 60 min additional only (or maybe a 60 min and a 30 min). Mine was a general aussie lager, not tooheys specific so I'm not sure on the differences.
> 
> 
> My recipe was 85% Pale, 10% Munich, 5% Sugar and the 60 min POR. Mash low for 90 mins. Will be doing this again soon, very simple and easy to drink.


IMO sluggerdog is on the money. All those mega beers taste the same after the first half glass anyway :lol:

When I do one I keep the IBU's to around 22 (tinseth) with a 60 min addition or you could go a 45 min addition to the same IBU....I would not put POR in at the end of the boil.
Use a nice clean lager yeast as well. 2042 seems to be the popular one although S189 works well for a dry yeast.


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## pist (23/10/14)

Ive done a couple of aussie lagers, and from my experiences, the grain bill needs adjustment. Last time i used 100% bb pilsener and it came out being more malty than what was intended bittered to 25 ibu. next time ill ride closer to the style and sub 20% of the fermentables for white cane sugar. This would be closer to the mark, and i think bribie may have even suggested this in the past. Certainly would be close to what the big breweries do with their swill lagers


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## pist (23/10/14)

For the yeast, i used s189, was happy with this choice. It fermented nice and clean/neutral which is what you want


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## yum beer (23/10/14)

I have a batch I'm just finishing, almost spot on, a litle light on up front bitteness and a little dry

75% plis
14%dex
10%carapils
1% pale crystal

mash 61c 90 min
boil 90
.7gm/litre POR 60 min
Danish lager big pitch 7.8c fement for 16 days.

Is a little dry but its a bloody good crack at megaswill and actually has some nice character.
Would swap 2% of the carapils for extra pale for a New clone and up POR to .8/.9 gms a litre and mash a degree higher.

Your biggest problem is time, it took 4 months at .2c in the bottle to hit its prime.


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## Bribie G (23/10/14)

Thirsty Boy may shoot me down in flames but I understand that Aussie breweries traditionally have used roast barley, not crystal, to slightly darken their old school beers like Reschs original draught etc. No more than about 15 grams. As a Pom who came straight to QLD I didn't visit NSW until I'd been here for about 5 years and until then assumed that Aussie beers were very pale as with XXXX and Carlton.

On crossing the border to Tenterfield, Grafton and Yamba on holiday around 1980 I was surprised that so many NSW brews were not pale but amber. Hence the Barry Mckenzie-ism, "the amber fluid".

Roast barley gives a dry crispness without sweetening, I wouldn't mind betting that Tooheys New has a trace. The Joe White RB, not the UK variety.

And yes, sugar, and as little hops as you can get away with, to around 19 IBU.


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## /// (23/10/14)

Remember these are high gravity and high mash temp beers. Stand temp is likely 70c, why put in crystal for flavour and body when you can use the dextrins from high temp.

Correct on the RB, ave alc is 7% before cutting with deaerated water to trade gravity. Ferment with neutral lager yeast at 16 c for 4 days and away you go ...


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## dent (23/10/14)

I wonder what the difference is between diluting pre- or post-ferment. If there is anything to it other than making the yeast stress out a little more.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (24/10/14)

Takes up less fermenter space is about all. Space is money.


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## Jaded and Bitter (24/10/14)

Did not even bother to read other replies, though recipe sounds fine.

Here is my advice on outlaws who bring their own beer when they know you proudly brew your own from scratch:

"I have a pair of workboots and two pairs of motorcycle boots all with steel caps, drink whatever beer I serve you or you wont live to see your Grandchildren."

Cause I'll kick your ead in!

Then I'll do a burnout on you corpse with my Chevy Corvette you weak C#nt!

I could go further...

Edit: added about head kicking.


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## shaunous (24/10/14)

All your replies have all been outstanding this morning.

Kudos J&B


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## TheWiggman (24/10/14)

I'm stunned at the lack of urine references. You've changed AHB.

Believe it or not I love XXXX Bitter but find New awful. I'm a native NSWelshman too. My brother is a devout New drinker, and said he couldn't stand pale ales and didn't like pilsners. He's THE type of person that keep the big brewers going.

I put together a XXXX Bitter clone at a little over 5% (my first lager) and out of the bottle, he said "this is better than New". My proudest moment in brewing. I suppose what I'm saying is that even if he only drinks New you might be able to make something that tailers to a New drinker's tastes. Basic grain bill was -

5kg pils
200g crystal
350g raw sugaz
2042 at 13°C, with diacetyl rest starting at about 1.020
35g cluster flowers (AA 4.1%) at 60 mins
OG 1.048, FG 1.010
60 mins 63°C, 72° for 10, then mash out
If you want to New-a-rise it sub the cluster for PoR, but personally I much prefer cluster.
I've got this is in ther fermenting freezer doing its 4°C rest for a week and this is in week 4. I typically keg at week 5 or 6, and don't drink 'til week 8.
I love it.

If you really want to make a 'clone' I think you'll struggle, as is the nature of cloning the mega brewery's beers. They have their own yeasts, big fermenters, probably a proprietry malt etc. etc. so the best I think you can do is to get close.


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## TheWiggman (24/10/14)

Any feedback from the brewery Klangers?


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## Sambrew (24/10/14)

There are far better beers to brew than a Tooheys New clone. FFS thought this site was for beer lovers, not cats piss drinkers. (shudder)


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## Midnight Brew (24/10/14)

Sambrew said:


> There are far better beers to brew than a Tooheys New clone. FFS thought this site was for beer lovers, not cats piss drinkers. (shudder)


If you read the original post you will see that the beer is not for themselves and is intended for his old man.


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## waggastew (24/10/14)

My father in law is not a big drinker but likes a schooey of New when out. He has tasted beers I've brewed from blondes to IPA's and every time he says "It tastes like New". Now smoking since you were 14 doesn't do good things to your palate but still......

Recently brewed a very nice Premium Aussie lager that at least is in the ballpark of New (although without Megaswill funk) and guess what he said? "Tastes a bit like New" and I said "I agree!"

PS. Follow BribieG's advice. The man did very well at the Nat's with his Aussie lager last year


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## MHB (24/10/14)

Tooheys do I believe use Super Prides, about 30% sugar as a fraction of OG, mashed hot (vague memory if it being 4-5 steps) starting around 70oC
The grain bill is basically all Joe White Pilsner with just a touch of something for colour (I suspect its Caramel)
Would think seriously of using Mauri 497Y, pitch a shed load at around 8oC and let it rise to 12-ish after a couple of days, brewed roughly 1/3 over gravity and diluted after fermentation.

I may think they have their taste buds in there arses, but they are very good at doing something very difficult, there isn't much room in mega-swill to hide any mistakes, so think carefully and do invest in a lot of Lager yeast if you want to get anywhere near the commercial version.
Mark


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## Westo (25/10/14)

Sambrew said:


> There are far better beers to brew than a Tooheys New clone. FFS thought this site was for beer lovers, not cats piss drinkers. (shudder)


Did you even read the original Post before you made that retarded post or did you just want to tell people you don't like that style of beer?

hey seato dont forget to sub out some grain for sugar like the big aussie breweries do or just make that recipe i sent you but scale it up to your setup..... ive had a few people tell me that they thought it was a comercial beer they where drinking..... if my old man liked it and thought the TED was the homebrew in a blind taste test then i think your old man will enjoy it


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## Seato (25/10/14)

Thanks for all the info. Lots of excellent tips. 

Using dextrose is going to make part of me die inside, but I started this and I'm not quitting now. 

Attached is my revised recipe. I'll make 40 litres and this raise the volume to 50 prior to pitching the yeast. 

Mark, I will try and find that lager yeast, but if not I'm going back to W34/70

Bribe, I've added 30grams of roasted barley since I'm doing a double 

I've put in 25% dextrose. 

Have a look at the brew mate recipe.

Again, I appreciate everyone's help. 

Seato


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## klangers (25/10/14)

TheWiggman said:


> Any feedback from the brewery Klangers?


Sorry guys I couldn't track down one of the guys I know there. I'm out there reasonably regularly so I can try again next time.

From what I know already, Seato - your latest recipe is looking close.

Bear in mind they add all sorts of enzymes as well - but this is more related to extract efficiency than flavour.


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## mxd (25/10/14)

your bitterness may ?? be a little high.

I've tasted 1 4kg pils 400g sugur, POR 22ibu at 60 and that was "fine" as an aussie lager


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## Westo (26/10/14)

yeah drop the ibu down around to around 17 IBU that will get you in the aussie lager range... i know its hard to imagine a beer with that small amount of ibu being drinkable but if u make it too bitter your old man might not like it


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## black_labb (26/10/14)

What are you hoping to get out of the caramunich III?


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## Burt de Ernie (26/10/14)

Just buy cases of TN then poor them and claim them as your own.

Problem fixed.


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## pist (27/10/14)

Sambrew said:


> There are far better beers to brew than a Tooheys New clone. FFS thought this site was for beer lovers, not cats piss drinkers. (shudder)


These kinds of responses are what pisses me off about this site. The guy asked a legitimate question, if you don't have anything constructive to add, then don't bother. Kudos to everyone else that has contributed thus far, the lack of smart arse responses is great to see.


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## ekul (27/10/14)

Tasted an aussie lager at the last meeting (which was also my frst meeting). It tasted bang on for a commercial beer (and everyone else in the group thought it was a commercial brew snuck in). The brewer of it was sitting at our table and afterwards told us he'd made it with 4kg pale, 1k sugar and fermented with s23 at 19C Cant remember the Ibus but it POR @ 60 and low (17 maybe). He was trying to make a tooheys extra dry clone i think.


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## Smokomark (27/10/14)

It was a great aussie lager. Scored 46 points out of 50. 
Well brewed Westo.


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## Topher (27/10/14)

S23 at 19c?? Wow. Just got a lager crashing that used S23 and it fully attenuated in 7 days at 12c.


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## Seato (28/10/14)

black_labb said:


> What are you hoping to get out of the caramunich III?


just a bit of colour really


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## black_labb (28/10/14)

Seato said:


> just a bit of colour really


I'd probably go closer to the recipe below and use a little bit of the RB only for colour. The caramunich III will add more colour and more caramel/raisin flavour that isn't really suitable in an Australian lager.




ekul said:


> Tasted an aussie lager at the last meeting (which was also my frst meeting). It tasted bang on for a commercial beer (and everyone else in the group thought it was a commercial brew snuck in). The brewer of it was sitting at our table and afterwards told us he'd made it with 4kg pale, 1k sugar and fermented with s23 at 19C Cant remember the Ibus but it POR @ 60 and low (17 maybe). He was trying to make a tooheys extra dry clone i think.


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## thebigwilk (29/10/14)

Yes I have also being playing around with this style and have used a few different yeast strains starting at low temps then letting them raise, have done a few with the dry yeast but I felt they were still pretty far off the mark they still came through a bit to clean in flavour. I then used wyeast 2124 lager and just started fermentation at 19c it was done in 4 days from 1045 down to 1009 let it sit at 20c for a week then filtered, now in my opinion the combination of P.O.R hops and 2124 yeast at high temps were the two most important elements to that beer, the grain bill was mostly pils roughly 90% and a combo of crystal 30 and 60 a bit of munich and a bit of roast barley, plus cane sugar to help get it down below 1010 for that light mouth feel. I have brewed five batches of this now and I thought I would pass on what I have learnt so far. 

Cheers.


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## Westo (29/10/14)

smokomark said:


> It was a great aussie lager. Scored 46 points out of 50.
> Well brewed Westo.


Thanks Mate, bout to brew it again now that I finally brewed a beer the old man likes he wants a carton for his birthday


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## Topher (29/10/14)

Hey westo, can ya confirm the yeast was S23 as per the previous post?


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## Westo (29/10/14)

Topher said:


> Hey westo, can ya confirm the yeast was S23 as per the previous post?


Hey Topher that is correct it was s23


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## Topher (30/10/14)

Thanks. What was your fermentation schedule like? How much did ya pitch?


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