# C'mon Straya - you know you want one.



## roger mellie (19/8/14)




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## tavas (19/8/14)

Me------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------This conversation


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## indica86 (19/8/14)

What is it?
Looks like a coffee maker.
Does it take nescafe pods or another type?


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## Camo6 (19/8/14)

Can I borrow yours Roger? Let me guess. You don't shear your WW with anyone? :unsure: Sorry, piss poor effort on my behalf.


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## Phoney (19/8/14)

Its a williams warn personal brewery. $6000+ and I dont think it even does AG. 

http://www.williamswarn.com/The-WilliamsWarn/personal-brewing-vs-home-brewing#.U_MyU0ddaSM


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## indica86 (19/8/14)

Phoney said:


> Its a williams warn personal brewery. $6000+


For coffee? WTF? It must do that really fancy latte art I have seen in Melboring.


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## sp0rk (19/8/14)

$678 for a CPBF and 2 cases of bottles?
Grossly overpriced like the unit itself...


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## Blind Dog (19/8/14)

Apparently they've sold a bunch which just goes to show how F'ing stupid some peeps is

$6,000 to brew extract beer

PML

Reminds me of this


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## sp0rk (19/8/14)

C'mon, I'm sure it's working perfectly well for the people who own them and chose to purchase them




But I'm sure my ghetto brewed beer is better...


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## Blind Dog (19/8/14)

Just quietly, I know someone in UnZud that bought one. Typical kiwi whinger (the all blacks never lose - the ref cheats, they were poisoned blah, blah, blah).

Couldn't have happened to a nicer person

And sp0rk I am absolutely certain that your beer is better, but you could also send a few bottles so I can be sure


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## manticle (19/8/14)

While I can see this thread might not end well, I'm asking for people to please try and refrain from making exactly the same comments already made in every other WW thread.
It's expensive, it doesn't make wort.

We know. Move on. No I don't have one, nor will I.

Asked as both mod and member.


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## black_labb (19/8/14)

I saw the thread title and came in here to say "No I don't want a williamswarn, oh wait, this is about something else" but behold more williamswarn marketing.


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## Blind Dog (19/8/14)

manticle said:


> While I can see this thread might not end well, I'm asking for people to please try and refrain from making exactly the same comments already made in every other WW thread.
> It's expensive, it doesn't make wort.
> We know. Move on. No I don't have one, nor will I.
> Asked as both mod and member.


I'm sure everyone can see your point, but it's like the moment in a horror movie when someone says 'let's split up' and you know the chain saw wielding maniac is going to pick them off one by one starting with the blonde who's never been in any other movie. You want to tell them not to do it, but they can't hear you


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## verysupple (19/8/14)

Manticle, your post above came in as I was typing my response. I haven't read many other threads on the WW but decided not to post because it was basically as you pointed out.

But surely a thread entitled "C'mon Straya - you know you want one." deserves a lot of replies to the contrary when it's clearly the sentiment of the people of Australia (at least the homebrewing community).

Also, what type/quality of response do we really expect from an OP that is _only_ an image and is posted in 'gear and equipment'. If it was posted by a retailer in the retail shop, then fine, they can advertise whatever they like and don't deserve to be shouted down. But that isn't the case.


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## manticle (19/8/14)

Blind Dog said:


> I'm sure everyone can see your point, but it's like the moment in a horror movie when someone says 'let's split up' and you know the chain saw wielding maniac is going to pick them off one by one starting with the blonde who's never been in any other movie. You want to tell them not to do it, but they can't hear you


I can only try.

That blonde deserves the chainsaw.


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## verysupple (19/8/14)

manticle said:


> I can only try.
> 
> That blonde deserves the chainsaw.


I have to agree with you there. I quite often barrack for the psychopath because the main protagonist is a moron.


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## Blind Dog (19/8/14)

verysupple said:


> I have to agree with you there. I quite often barrack for the psychopath because the main protagonist is a moron.


I, on the other hand, quite often barrack for the psychopath because I am one...

Mwwwwahhhhahhhh


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## Westo (19/8/14)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuLvLnXiC_U

so the pro breweries use extract to brew all there beer........ lol


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## sp0rk (19/8/14)

I'd like to know what exactly is in this "clarification agent"...


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## Blind Dog (19/8/14)

I can't watch. But I can't stop. I'm literally wetting myself, it's hilarious. And I have to pay $40 for the gunk to brew each batch with?

This or 60 cases of SN torpedo? 

(Apologies manticle, but he started it)


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## tavas (19/8/14)

sp0rk said:


> I'd like to know what exactly is in this "clarification agent"...


Colloidal silica. It was discussed in one of the area threads. Common flocculating agent.


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## verysupple (19/8/14)

Sorry manticle for yet more WW bashing...

I'm a homebrewer and _love _anything that's stainless steel - I think most of us do - we're like magpies. But surely it says something about a product when it's that pretty and still we don't want it. 

To put into perspective how intense the allure of SS is, I've been eying the Blichmann BrewEasy. I've been waiting for the electric version of the TowerOfPower to go with the BoilerMaker with BoilCoil (I'm such a fanboi I know all the trademarks ). Logic tells me the Braumeister would end up cheaper and a better product for my needs, but my brain says, "But you get more stainless pots, bling gear and techy stuff to play with if you get the BrewEasy". Yet the WW still lacks the allure. Go figure.


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## TheWiggman (20/8/14)

Why assume people don't want one? Hell, I want one. Pressurised and temp controlled stainless fermentation vessel. Would beat the pants off my HDPE fermenters and busted fridge. I can tip whatever wort I want in there, no need to even consider kits. 
Will I pay for one? No.


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## shaunous (20/8/14)

TheWiggman said:


> Why assume people don't want one? Hell, I want one. Pressurised and temp controlled stainless fermentation vessel. Would beat the pants off my HDPE fermenters and busted fridge. I can tip whatever wort I want in there, no need to even consider kits.
> Will I pay for one? No.


This is about the nicest way you can say you dont want one, but respect what it does


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## Yob (20/8/14)

If I had one in the shed, it'd raise the shed value to $6000 

When I opened this thread, there was a groan and a oh not again.


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## Edak (20/8/14)

So they use sodium percarbonate as a no rinse sanitiser? Did I miss something?


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## Yob (20/8/14)

Totes.. It's called hype and bullshit. 

While sodium percabonate can be used no rinse, we all understand its not the best. Sodium percabonate breaks down to soda ash and hydrogen peroxide (from memory) it's the hydrogen peroxide that gives sanitation qualities


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## Edak (20/8/14)

And a nice filmy soapy feel that I am not comfortable with...


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## Yob (20/8/14)

Luckily, Starsan neutralises it..

I raised that here before somewhere and was reassured that it isnt an issue.. Im not comfortable with it either


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## QldKev (20/8/14)

For the price you think it would at least come with a Blichmann badge


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/14)

Got to give Roger credit.....

Its still an expensive K&K fermenter...


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## wobbly (20/8/14)

Roger Roger Roger

At least put some bait on the hook!!!!!

Cheers

Wobbly


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## Weizguy (20/8/14)

C'mon Straya - you know you want one.

Au contraire, Roger Mellie. I think that you (and WW) want us.

_Personally, I reject your reality, deny your assertion, and substitute actual reality._


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/14)

wobbly said:


> Roger Roger Roger
> 
> At least put some bait on the hook!!!!!
> 
> ...


Throw in a BM for an extra $3k....


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## goomboogo (20/8/14)

wobbly said:


> Roger Roger Roger
> 
> At least put some bait on the hook!!!!!
> 
> ...


It looks like he didn't need any bait.


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## SimoB (20/8/14)

i just watched that video... I would re build my 3v set up 10 times before considering one of those.


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## sp0rk (20/8/14)

SimoB said:


> i just watched that video... I would re build my 3v set up 10 times before considering one of those.


I think that's the point a lot of us aren't getting, this isn't a wort production machine
It's a fermenter/serving device
Still wouldn't buy one though...


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/14)

But does it produce spectacular beer compared to a cub in a fridge...


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## sp0rk (20/8/14)

Apparently...


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## Weizguy (20/8/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Throw in a BM for an extra $3k....


What size BM? Now I'm interested



Ducatiboy stu said:


> But does it produce spectacular beer compared to a cub in a fridge...


Tap King is Tooheys and has Lionel Richie in the fridge, and THAT will take some beating (edit: bad spelling)


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## SimoB (20/8/14)

sp0rk said:


> I think that's the point a lot of us aren't getting, this isn't a wort production machine
> It's a fermenter/serving device
> Still wouldn't buy one though...


I guess... but they still add malt and hops... by using a plunger and a pitcher, just a smaller (a lot) wort making machine... haha

It may be a fermenting device, but they call it a brewery.


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/14)

Les the Weizguy said:


> Tap King is Tooheys and has Lionel Richie in the fridge, and THAT will take some beating (edit: bad spelling)


Good point....


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## Blind Dog (20/8/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> But does it produce spectacular beer compared to a cub in a fridge...


I think it depnds on type of cub you're keeping in there


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## tavas (20/8/14)

Blind Dog said:


> I think it depnds on type of cub you're keeping in there


Lion (Nathan) cub I guess. *boom tish*





I'll show myself out....


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## Yob (20/8/14)

SimoB said:


> I guess... but they still add malt and hops


How many grams of hops do you think that pissy little bottle would hold? My IPA's would kill that thing..


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## 620rossco (20/8/14)

Perfect for us hipsters.
We're gonna need more accessories.


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/14)

Yob said:


> How many grams of hops do you think that pissy little bottle would hold? My IPA's would kill that thing..


There prob talking iso-hops..not real hops..


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## MastersBrewery (20/8/14)

Haven't we had enough WW bashing for one year guys?


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## Weizguy (20/8/14)

MastersBrewery said:


> Haven't we had enough WW bashing for one year guys?


Seriously?

Never enough. Oooohhh, I suspect that was an ironic question?


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## sp0rk (20/8/14)

MastersBrewery said:


> Haven't we had enough WW bashing for one year guys?


nooooooooope


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## barls (20/8/14)

MastersBrewery said:


> Haven't we had enough WW bashing for one year guys?


new financial year


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## Yob (20/8/14)

Im seeing a pattern..






View attachment 74126


thats right... you need to have glasses to own one :lol:


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## Edak (20/8/14)

MastersBrewery said:


> Haven't we had enough WW bashing for one year guys?


I only just got started! 

A shameless plug like that deserved to get picked on. For 6k I could get a BM, plus Fermenting Fridge, brauPi, keezer with flow control Perlick taps, ingredients and still have pocket change. This thing is a nice idea but the price seems unrealistic.


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## Camo6 (20/8/14)

I wonder how many ewes in NZ are sitting in front of the TV asking their hubbies 'what's so funny on that bloody unternet?'
Well played Mr Mellie...well played.


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## wobbly (20/8/14)

Don't get caught up in the rush guys the following retailers have seen the light and stocking their products
Harvey Norman Auburn
Absolute Home Brew
Asquith Home Brew
Northern Brew
The Hop and Grain
What's Brewing
And outlets in Brisbane coming soon
Obviously some smart business people can see an opportunity and are not complain about the noise it's making

Cheers

Wobbly


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## Yob (20/8/14)

wobbly said:


> The Hop and Grain


They also sell plastic FV taps for $4:50...

Im not surprised they have their hand out to sell over priced equipment..

 :lol: h34r:


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## sp0rk (20/8/14)

wobbly said:


> Don't get caught up in the rush guys the following retailers have seen the light and stocking their products
> 
> Harvey Norman Auburn
> Absolute Home Brew
> ...


So the usual haunts of bored retired blokes who've got nothing else to waste their money on?


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## Weizguy (20/8/14)

wobbly said:


> Obviously some smart business people can see an opportunity and are not complain about the noise it's making
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Wobbly


What?!!! It makes a lot of noise too?

You're not really selling this concept to me.

BTW, is Roger Mellie a retailer (just askin')


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/14)

I still cant find where the Kitten goes in the WW........must be a design fault...


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## panzerd18 (20/8/14)

Why are there some people on this forum that are trying to push this product? Its pretty obvious whats going on.


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## sponge (20/8/14)

The kitten costs another $1,387.


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/14)

Maybe they could get this bloke to act as there marketing director....its not like any poor people are going to buy it..


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/14)

sponge said:


> The kitten costs another $1,387.


I can go to the mad Cat Lady here and get one chipped & wormed for $30...

I dont see the value of a $1,387 Kitten....sorry...but I just dont...


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## sponge (20/8/14)

You've got a better cat lady than I do..

WW-Kittens are a thing of beauty, simplicity and affordability.




Or so Roger tells me..


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## SnakeDoctor (20/8/14)

Definitely the product for the retired - they should be selling these units at Caravan shops instead.


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## Florian (20/8/14)

panzerd18 said:


> Why are there some people on this forum that are trying to push this product? Its pretty obvious whats going on.


So what's going on then?

I think you will find that roger mellie is just having a laugh at the expense of everyone who took the bait.

Smart man he is...


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## SnakeDoctor (20/8/14)

The enjoyment of people laughing at roger mellie exceeds the amount he is getting from his negative trolling...


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## davedoran (20/8/14)




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## thehopandgrain (20/8/14)

Just thought we'd weigh in, as we've been thrown into the mix with Harvey Norman and other WW sellers.

Just for the record, we're not a stockist of the WW machine or affiliated with them at all, and we don't have any plans to be. They have a certain novelty to them, but for the price point, yikes! I'll stick to my ferment fridge and corny kegs.

We did get a couple of their beer kits to see if anyone was interested (6 kits in total). I actually brewed one of the Irish Red Ale kits myself, and for a kit beer it wasn't too bad at all, although it could've benefitted from some steeped crystal and dry hopping - like any concentrate kit, so nothing too stand out there. We still have most of those kits left though, so it's pretty clear there's not too much interest in them. I'll probably just brew them myself at some point.

Yob, those fermenter taps actually had the wrong image on our website (our bad!) and that's not the one we sell for $4.50. I've updated the picture on our website. It's actually a proper HDPE tap, the same as what you'd find at most other home brew shops for between $3 and $5. Hope that hasn't given you the wrong idea about our pricing. Whenever we get products in, we always try to keep prices comparable with other retailers.

Anyway, just wanted to try to set the record straight - we're not a seller of the WilliamsWarn machines and we've never tried to push people in their direction, or to buy any pricey equipment that they don't need.


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## Weizguy (20/8/14)

Florian said:


> So what's going on then?
> 
> I think you will find that roger mellie is just having a laugh at the expense of everyone who took the bait.
> 
> Smart man he is...


Yeah, but no. I think he is serious about liking the product.

Smart man he is not, or maybe... Nah, he's serious

Not as if it sounds cute, like rice gulls.


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## sp0rk (20/8/14)

thehopandgrain said:


> Anyway, just wanted to try to set the record straight - we're not a seller of the WilliamsWarn machines and we've never tried to push people in their direction, or to buy any pricey equipment that they don't need.


Well, isn't that a little embarrassing for the "look at all these peeps who will be pimping it" brigade...


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## indica86 (20/8/14)

I still can't work out what kind of coffee pods it uses.


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## Florian (20/8/14)

Les the Weizguy said:


> Yeah, but no. I think he is serious about liking the product.
> 
> Smart man he is not, or maybe... Nah, he's serious
> 
> Not as if it sounds cute, like rice gulls.


yes, he is serious about liking it, he owns one himself. doesn't mean he can't throw some bait around as he exactly knows the very predictable outcome on this forum.

if you read some of his previous posts you might indeed come to the conclusion that he is far from the dumbest homebrewer around. Far from it.


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## Yob (20/8/14)

@ thehopandgrian 

All good, wasn't meaning to single you out at all, glad you could clear the issue up for the sales reps on the forum and set the matter straight.


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## HBHB (20/8/14)

If I had 6K in my pocket, I'd be talking to a financial planner about investing. Not buying an extract brewing blingamejig.


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## Grainer (20/8/14)

nice fermenter.. buntings has a similar one for $23 :kooi:


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/14)

$6k buys a lot of Big W stock pots


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## sp0rk (20/8/14)

If you welded $4k worth of big w stockpots and some tubing together, you'd make a budget williamswarn clone and still have cash left over for a second hand BM


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## Vini2ton (20/8/14)

That logo? Just cries out to have ANKER scribbled on it. How much for the jousting sticks?


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## roger mellie (20/8/14)

Fellow Beer Lovers

No not a retailer

Humble apologies for the troll - couldn't resist. But jeepers you blokes are good for a wind up - you are all missing the point - that Elz made so succinctly - its a good work horse - it does what it says on the tin - brews wort into beer.

I have (probably like a few other here) spent a small fortune on Golf clubs/cricket bats/fishing rods/boats etc... over the years that a 6K purchase that will last until the bastard medics tell me to stop drinking or I curl my toes up - (whichever comes first) - so in my world that justifies this purchase as a good investment.

Indeed I wish I was sitting at home playing with my shiny WW - alas for my sins I am banished to the surat basin probably until November. There will be some power brewing before Xmas I tell ya.

So come on guys seriously - 50 months interest free - blah blah blah...

RM


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/14)

roger mellie said:


> its a good work horse - it does what it says on the tin - brews wort into beer.
> 
> 
> RM


kinda like this


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## panzerd18 (20/8/14)

I think its a good invention. Unfortunately I believe it prices most people out of the market unless you're a rich play boy with a lot of play money.


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## Pilchard (20/8/14)

I don't get it.. I may be a bit daft sometimes so I googled a 6k system that basically does what I did for kits and bits but cost about the same as a second hand corolla. Was I doing something wrong mixing my cans in the fermenter with a $4 spoon? I made beer, drank it got drunk. Cost me 0.050k.

Let's take into account my fridge and 4 kegs a gas bottle reg etc. I'm still in front and can buy not as good a corolla.


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/14)

The difference is thtat the $6k unit can turn kits into megaswill beer....THATS what you are paying for


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## Pilchard (20/8/14)

Stu I still don't get it. We have a good forum here, we are frugal bastards that strive for the best beer available and some members have gone on to brewing as a career. This thing seems a step backward to me. Even costing in a 3v or brewmister system with a dozen kegs and new fridge freezer, taps font etc, it's still overpriced for the working man.


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## SnakeDoctor (20/8/14)

wobbly said:


> Don't get caught up in the rush guys the following retailers have seen the light and stocking their products
> 
> Harvey Norman Auburn
> Absolute Home Brew
> ...





thehopandgrain said:


> Just thought we'd weigh in, as we've been thrown into the mix with Harvey Norman and other WW sellers.
> 
> Just for the record, we're not a stockist of the WW machine or affiliated with them at all, and we don't have any plans to be.


LOL! 

So who is making shit up, wobbly or Williamswarn? 

I'd say Wobby is kind of a retired, caravan towing old crazy person, but I wouldn't call him a liar. 

Given the absolute proven farce of most of the Williamswarn claims, i'd say it's the company.


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## roger mellie (20/8/14)

An HDPE fermenter is to a WW 
as a Ducati is to a Honda 90

The Honda 90 will take you down the shops to buy your Latte

But if you had the money you would buy the Ducati.

Right Stu?


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## tavas (20/8/14)

Pilchard said:


> Let's take into account my fridge and 4 kegs a gas bottle reg etc. I'm still in front and can buy not as good a corolla.


After $4k all Corollas are the same.


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/14)

Pilchard said:


> Stu I still don't get it. We have a good forum here, we are frugal bastards that strive for the best beer available and some members have gone on to brewing as a career. This thing seems a step backward to me. Even costing in a 3v or brewmister system with a dozen kegs and new fridge freezer, taps font etc, it's still overpriced for the working man.


Its just a pressurised fermenter with a build in cooler to control the temp. The concept of pressure fermenting is interesting and different to what we have traditionaly used..

But $6k.....um...yeah...


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/14)

roger mellie said:


> An HDPE fermenter is to a WW
> as a Ducati is to a Honda 90
> 
> The Honda 90 will take you down the shops to buy your Latte
> ...


Honda 90 is a damn good bike. One that I would be proud to ride.


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## SnakeDoctor (20/8/14)

roger mellie said:


> An HDPE fermenter is to a WW
> as a Ducati is to a Honda 90
> 
> The Honda 90 will take you down the shops to buy your Latte
> ...


Please answer the questions:

Are you retired?
Do you own or have you owned a Caravan?


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## roger mellie (20/8/14)

Irrelevant questions but since you ask

No and No although in my 20's I drove all over Europe in a VW Transporter

I own a Quintrex - does that count?

RM


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## roger mellie (20/8/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Honda 90 is a damn good bike. One that I would be proud to ride.


But you don't - your Motto Guzzi replica is most definitely a thing of beauty - 

Much like my WW

RM


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/14)

roger mellie said:


> your Motto Guzzi replica is most definitely a thing of beauty -
> 
> 
> 
> RM


What the **** are you rambling on about .....


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## roger mellie (20/8/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> What the **** are you rambling on about .....


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## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/14)

Nice bike the Guzzi, you should have a ride on one.


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## SnakeDoctor (20/8/14)

roger mellie said:


> I own a Quintrex - does that count?
> 
> RM



Ah, the old water caravan instead.


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## roger mellie (20/8/14)

The closest I get to classic italian sadly is my E61 Rocket

Sadly SWMBO has declared motorcycles of any shape or form off limits

Came very close to choosing between her and an S1000RR not so long ago

Unlike the WW I 'think' I made the right choice.

RM


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## Blind Dog (20/8/14)

Whereas with the WW you know you didn't?


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## Pilchard (20/8/14)

Ok. So this has turned into a slinging match... I'm watching in anticipation.

To the OP, with all the boffins on here reworking systems like 3v and brewmister, why have none of them done this one? I challenge you to answer the question. The mock up wouldn't be hard with a conical, gas bottle and old style bar fridge, would take up about the same footprint I think.

To the OP, look at the forum you are posting on, AG brewers with several thousand years combined experience between them. I can't see this type of system selling well, I assume this is a troll post meant to get people going...

Each to their own but hell you are in the wrong place to plug a REDUNDANT product.


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## warra48 (20/8/14)

SnakeDoctor said:


> Please answer the questions:
> 
> Are you retired?
> Do you own or have you owned a Caravan?


Yes, I'm retired.
No, I don't, nor will I ever, own a caravan.
No, I don't, nor will I ever own a WW, unless it's donated to me.

Does look like a pretty fancy fermenter and cp bottler though.


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## Wimmig (20/8/14)

$6k? I mean, I like gadgets and all but god damn. That's serious coin. For the cash left from the purchase of my BM I'll take the morebeer ultimate conical, blow $500 on grain and keep the change. Still though, it's an interesting device to those limited by space and a desire to brew with a can opener.


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## sp0rk (20/8/14)

I've been to plenty of commercial and micro breweries
They expose to oxygen a lot more than the WW does (a bunch of them don't ferment under pressure either)
But yet they still make award winning and well selling beers
WHAT ARE THEY DOING?!?!?!?!
Overstated benefit is overstated...


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## zappa (20/8/14)

The WW sure is getting a lot of attention. Every thread it's featured in seems to get more of a look in than any other. Hadn't seen much interest in fermenting in stainless under pressure until Wobbly's first WW thread, but now everyone wants a stainless fermenter and there's been a lot of interest in fermenting under pressure. I almost fell for the hype too, but then I remembered that my beer tastes pretty damn good out of a plastic fermenter anyway.

Ian Williams might have gotten a lot of us off side with his comments regarding homebrewers, but I reckon he's shaped up to be somewhat of a marketing genius. People won't stop talking about the bloody thing.

Don't feed the trolls.


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## nzefactor (20/8/14)

Wow I've never heard of these before. $6k huh? I thought a BM was out of my league...

I'm guessing whoever buys a WW doesn't have 'value' as the no.1 reason for purchasing on their list (probably doesn't even come into the top 5). 
It's something that they can use to make some beer at home, in a sleek blingy unit, show off to their mates, and (hopefully) enjoy using and looking at. If they've got the money then why not (I've got a bridge they might be interested in...).

You'd hope that people who buy them either aren't interested in getting into the details of the various ways of making beer at home, be it extract or AG, or don't like the look/are put off with the slightly more 'ghetto' or 'messy' aspects (old eskys, drilling fridges, boiling pots of wort, lots of bags of hops etc) of making beer at home. That intro video sure makes the whole process look really clean and fuss-free. I wonder if it get's old or boring quickly? 

All in all an interesting albeit expensive way to make extract beer and have it kegged and/or bottled in one unit. 

If you showed a potential buyer of a WW a side-by-side comparison of a WW unit, a 20L BM, and a stovetop boil extract kit with grains, and compare the beers that they produce, what would be the order of interesting for purchasing? 

I reckon the WW would still come out on top for a few because of the whole 'from fermenter to keg to tap in one unit' angle, price be buggered.


----------



## roger mellie (20/8/14)

Pilchard

Mate, and undoubtedly fine brewer.

I started brewing in 1980 aged 14 , in a bucket, using stinging nettle I plucked from the compost bin where the chickens in my back yard used to poo. When my mum gave me this silly book on how to home-brew by this english chap with mutton board chops - and I had zero money but a penchant for a mad science experiment. FWIW It tasted like shit except when you made it into a shandy. From that point on I was kind of hooked. Made many heinous brews using god knows what ingredients but it didn't matter - we all start somewhere.

I have brewed in systems ranging from Bucket 'o death, esky with a chunk of braided hose stolen from a BBQ burner hose, 2 Vessel, 3 Vessel - 10L, 20L, 50L the 2nd last system I had was a 100L tippy dump I brought of Rossco. I have fermented in 4.5l glass carboys, buckets, 30L fermenters, 30L stainless conicals, 60L black backbreakers. I made my own grain mill, my own CFWC, 'borrowed' 50L kegs, have more swagelock fittings than a modern process plant, STILL have a $100 4KG pretty red fire extinguisher that I brought from a place in perth as my CO2 supply. 

So its kind of been an obsession --> progression. Proud to say I still have most of the kit I used to use (except of the 100L system) - and would go back there in a heartbeat if I had to.

Now I have a BM20 and a WW basically because I like the minimal footprint and simplicity that it offers, and I make better beer than I could ever dream of - as reductive as I can be, very simple, set and forget fermentation, automatic carbonation, simple keg transfer - G2B in < 7 days.

More importantly - like a lot of the people I have met in the 8 years I have been on this forum prior to you joining, I have dragged a lot of people into this hobby/obsession.

So please don't tell me where I am posting - I refined my brewing methods by listening to a lot of people that for some reason don't post here anymore. Yes I enjoy a wind up - especially when there is a trans tasman flavour to it - I admitted that the OP was a troll.

Seriously I couldn't give a shit if WW never sold another fermenter - despite knowing the inventor a little bit and living 10 minutes from their factory. But they will sell them and is that such a bad thing? Some people tip goo and powder into theirs and win international awards. I labour endlessly over recipe design, ingredients, yeasts --> you know the score - aim for perfection - usually miss the target by a wide margin.

I can't actually think of a way to wrap this rant up.

So I won't - I will however enter the exclusive WW beer awards next time they are held - because I can.

RM


----------



## Edak (20/8/14)

Wario World. 

This is what I would build if the gods gave that kind of money to me. 
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/pimp-my-system/brew-pi-the-future-of-homebrew-fermentation/


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (20/8/14)

Yeah baby....

Suddenly the WW looks kinda...well....boring..


----------



## Edak (20/8/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Yeah baby....
> 
> Suddenly the WW looks kinda...well....boring..


Thanks for posting the pic. I linked because it was easier on mobile and it also contained his full BOM.


----------



## SnakeDoctor (20/8/14)

warra48 said:


> Yes, I'm retired.
> No, I don't, nor will I ever, own a caravan.


Thumbs up from me mate


----------



## Blind Dog (20/8/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Yeah baby....
> 
> Suddenly the WW looks kinda...well....boring..


My only quibble would be why keep that work of art in the garage?


----------



## wobbly (20/8/14)

The "Ones and Zeros" system cost $12,000 plus !!!! check out this topic for the details https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=16336.0 and you guys think owning a WW is over the top

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## Blind Dog (20/8/14)

wobbly said:


> The "Ones and Zeros" system cost $12,000 plus !!!! check out this topic for the details https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=16336.0 and you guys think owning a WW is over the top
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Wobbly


Yes


----------



## SnakeDoctor (20/8/14)

wobbly said:


> The "Ones and Zeros" system cost $12,000 plus !!!! check out this topic for the details https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=16336.0 and you guys think owning a WW is over the top
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Wobbly



WW gets you one beer and costs 6k, this system gets you 4 different beers and is 12k, it's therefore 50% better value than the FailWarn system.

I could afford either one, I'd definitely buy the 12k one, who wants to drink only one beer at a time? No thanks.


----------



## wobbly (20/8/14)

Sad point is that apart from Roger, Elz and myself it doesn't appear that any of the other commenters/detractors have either seen a WW or sampled a beer from one yet they claim to be all knowing and able to pass judgment on a machine/system that they know absolutely nothing about but I guess that's par for the course

Agreed the WW will only ferment around 25 litres at a time but then it can easily be transferred to kegs or bottled and another beer fermented

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## Pilchard (20/8/14)

Your pretty, your pretty, brew system a work of art,

It makes wort into beer from the start, it's brew mag pretty, it's groggy it's an art.

Your beer is pretty... It's not ww art... With an ugly wort....


----------



## SnakeDoctor (20/8/14)

wobbly said:


> Unlike every other homebrewer, I only get to drink a single type of beer at a time.



Fixed.


----------



## Pilchard (20/8/14)

How?

Do they now have a double vessels?


----------



## Blind Dog (20/8/14)

wobbly said:


> Sad point is that apart from Roger, Elz and myself it doesn't appear that any of the other commenters/detractors have either seen a WW or sampled a beer from one yet they claim to be all knowing and able to pass judgment on a machine/system that they know absolutely nothing about but I guess that's par for the course
> 
> Agreed the WW will only ferment around 25 litres at a time but then it can easily be transferred to kegs or bottled and another beer fermented
> 
> ...


I think the point you're missing is that nothing you, RM, WW website, previous threads etc, etc have said makes me (I won't speak for others) want to see a WW in action if involves any effort on my part. 

Do I want one? No. Do I even gave the vaguest interest in having/seeing one? No, as I don't see what the $5,975 more than the overpriced cube I bought from anaconda gets me, particularly if I need to bottle or keg to get the next brew on. Nothing that has been said here or elsewhere changes that. I do know someone who has one and I've heard him wax lyrical about it. But even he can't explain what the extra $5,975 gets me. The fact that he is also the biggest arse I ever met does not cloud my judgement ( ok it might a little)

I'm pretty sure most people were aware that RM was trolling and for the most part it's been fun, and the man does have balls of steel.

So long as nothing descends into personal attacks, I don't see anything wrong with taking the piss a little. If you're happy with the WW then fair play to you. But that doesn't stop it being an overpriced fermenting vessel

Plus the videos on their website are F'ing hilarious. You must admit to a little cringe when you watch them


----------



## manticle (20/8/14)

Watch cold steel videos if you really want a laugh.


----------



## Camo6 (20/8/14)

roger mellie said:


> Pilchard
> 
> Mate, and undoubtedly fine brewer.
> 
> ...


You know what Australians hate more than a smug New Zealander? A smug New Zealander who can afford a WW!
Sounds like you've got your system sorted mate and it works for you. Most probably paid for by our welfare system but as a fellow homebrewer I admire your resourcefulness.
Wether you were trolling or not, ewe don't seem such a baa'd bloke.


----------



## MastersBrewery (20/8/14)

Pilchard said:


> Ok. So this has turned into a slinging match... I'm watching in anticipation.
> 
> To the OP, with all the boffins on here reworking systems like 3v and brewmister, why have none of them done this one? I challenge you to answer the question. The mock up wouldn't be hard with a conical, gas bottle and old style bar fridge, would take up about the same footprint I think.
> 
> ...


Why hasn't it been cloned here? simple SS conicals aren't cheap and most available locally aren't pressure rated. There are several AHBers that pressure ferment, fewer using a WW. Most of us use some sort of temp control and I believe most would agree the tightest ferm control is that offered by BrewPI as linked above. There are reasonably price pressure conicals available from overseas and 95% of what the WW does has been done by brewers around the world for some years.

Clone one??? Challenge accepted!!!

Just note I was the one who started the whole Matho's controller thread, and **** me I've just about got that done!(however many years later). I'm a little poor, so you'll have to bare with me. I'll be sure to include a triclove with a ball lock post and a tap on the ferment fridge just in case I run out of kegs.

MB


----------



## Blind Dog (20/8/14)

manticle said:


> Watch cold steel videos if you really want a laugh.


Thank you
I can't work out if it's real or a piss take, but I've a nasty feeling it's the former


----------



## Blind Dog (20/8/14)

MastersBrewery said:


> Why hasn't it been cloned here? simple no one wants one
> 
> MB


FIFY


----------



## Blind Dog (21/8/14)

MastersBrewery said:


> Why hasn't it been cloned here? simple SS conicals aren't cheap and most available locally aren't pressure rated. There are several AHBers that pressure ferment, fewer using a WW. Most of us use some sort of temp control and I believe most would agree the tightest ferm control is that offered by BrewPI as linked above. There are reasonably price pressure conicals available from overseas and 95% of what the WW does has been done by brewers around the world for some years.
> 
> Clone one??? Challenge accepted!!!
> 
> ...


As someone who thinks a PID is something that people with a lisp do after drinking too much beer, I may not be best placed to question your judgement, but why would you want to clone a WW?


----------



## MastersBrewery (21/8/14)

Blind Dog said:


> As someone who thinks a PID is something that people with a lisp do after drinking too much beer, I may not be best placed to question your judgement, but why would you want to clone a WW?


WW invented very little with their machine.
Their process is without fault.
They also got very little wrong.
They just tied it to a single beer at a time(this is the bit that made it patentable)
Then they trebled the price for profit

MB


----------



## manticle (21/8/14)

If you were going to design a pressure fermenter (as opposed to an entire brewery) that utilised co2 from fermentation for dispensing (not a new idea) then you could do worse than a WW concept. Forget the wanky marketing, forget the price tag and look at the system itself. It ferments wort - whether wort made from their special tins or wort from joe's bucket o death, bill's braumeister or barry's sabco 3V. It ferments wort and dispenses beer within a closed system.

Like the braumeister (also pricey) it has many aspects worth cloning.

I could not, in a million years, even if I wanted to, afford an expensive fermentation system of this ilk but I'm interested in the principles and whether I can get some of the same benefits within my budget (around $5,858 less).

Criticise the system for its inadequacies by all means but don't pretend it has no positive features. Whether they are worth the cash or can be found in other ways for less is another story.


----------



## Elz (21/8/14)

raises hand meekly... Analysis. Forum generally tracking/ticking over at normal pace (normal level of piss taking etc). Someone introduces WW into the forum. This results in increased level of piss taking, polarised views, fanboyism and some would say views bordering on hate for WW. (Must also mention that there are some level headed comments scattered among the concrete views). Conclusion is that WW causes anxiety, stress and maybe even mild mental health problems for some. Simple cure is to take the edge by off by drinking some good home brew, or throw down a diazepam or seek professional help from psychiatrist!! However probably best to stick to some home brew. Take home message, chill a little, its just machine; probably not worth all the vitriol spewed on this this post. 
And just to throw a spanner in the works, it ferments to perfection.
Cheers
Elz


----------



## Elz (21/8/14)

Oh,also WW is fun and brings joy!


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## contrarian (21/8/14)

You need to take a long term view on this. I you currently hire a CO2 tank you could be spending $150 or more a year on gas. At this rate it would only 20 short years before the WW had paid for itself! Not to mention the benefit to the environment of not having that extra CO2 released into the atmosphere. 

Cost effective and environmentally friendly!


----------



## roger mellie (21/8/14)

Camo6 said:


> You know what Australians hate more than a smug New Zealander? A smug New Zealander who can afford a WW!
> Sounds like you've got your system sorted mate and it works for you. Most probably paid for by our welfare system but as a fellow homebrewer I admire your resourcefulness.
> Wether you were trolling or not, ewe don't seem such a baa'd bloke.


 Ah yes - the fallback position of a Austrayan 

1. Accuse Kiwi's of ripping off the Strayan Welfare system
2. Obilgatory reference to sheep 

FWIW - I live in New Zealand because it is after all the best country in the world, with the best rugby team, the cleanest air and the most attractive sheep, I work globally and even employ a couple of your fellow Austrayans - so I guess I am actually a nett contributor to the Strayan welfare system.

@Masters Brewery - good luck with it - this thing has some nifty engineering to reduce the footprint - but it is certainly possible to do some form of cloned system. The fermenter lid is ~10 inches in diameter allowing for ease of cleaning - so factor that into your design - the vessel has a PRV set at 300kPa.g - and if the lid let go at that pressure would do some damage.

RM


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## SnakeDoctor (21/8/14)

I wouldn't say progression RM, more like repeated failure until giving up and falling back to K&K megaswill style from a singe beer machine.


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## Yob (21/8/14)

Ive 2 comments...





or


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (21/8/14)

Can you use gladwrap on the WW..?

No one has answered the question of where the kitten goes. We all know you cant do a decent ferment without a kitten.

If you use AG beer in the WW will it be better than the WW Tins ?

Will WW users eventually climb down the ladder and submit their beers to general comps ?

If you use a Coopers tin, will it react with the WW ?

Do Hobbits brew with WW's ?

Is a fermenter that costs almost as much as a new car really worth it ?

Will the mere mention of a WW on AHB eventually bring praise and gratitude ( as opposed to laughter and head shaking )?

Is a WW like a Harley that needs polishing before use, and even when not being used ?

Now that the Liberals have stopped the carbon tax, is the recycling of C02 worth it ?

Does RM know the difference between Ducati & Moto Guzzi ?


----------



## sponge (21/8/14)

I have no interest in poking these smouldering embers, I just like this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emJyEa4z2Ec


----------



## Weizguy (21/8/14)

HBHB said:


> If I had 6K in my pocket, I'd be talking to a financial planner about investing. Not buying an extract brewing blingamejig.


What sort of homebrewer are you, to not invest in your brewery primarily?



roger mellie said:


> Fellow Beer Lovers
> 
> No not a retailer
> 
> ...


Soooo, you admit to being a troll?? (*a clever one, potentially, but nevertheless a plague/scourge upon the internets?*)


----------



## Blind Dog (21/8/14)

manticle said:


> If you were going to design a pressure fermenter (as opposed to an entire brewery) that utilised co2 from fermentation for dispensing (not a new idea) then you could do worse than a WW concept. Forget the wanky marketing, forget the price tag and look at the system itself. It ferments wort - whether wort made from their special tins or wort from joe's bucket o death, bill's braumeister or barry's sabco 3V. It ferments wort and dispenses beer within a closed system.
> Like the braumeister (also pricey) it has many aspects worth cloning.
> I could not, in a million years, even if I wanted to, afford an expensive fermentation system of this ilk but I'm interested in the principles and whether I can get some of the same benefits within my budget (around $5,858 less).
> Criticise the system for its inadequacies by all means but don't pretend it has no positive features. Whether they are worth the cash or can be found in other ways for less is another story.


Assuming you have kegs etc to start with, a spunding valve should cost less than $142
Pressurized fermentation is interesting and fermenting in a corny and then serving from the keg using mainly the trapped co2 is on my to do list, but it won't cost $6k. A side by side with cube fermented, force carbed in the blue corner and corny fermented, naturally carbed in the red would be interesting

I an see the point in cloning a BM (ie making an exact copy) as it's an elegant solution. I can't see the point in cloning a WW. As designed it allows only 1 brew at a time. Aspects of it are appealing, but If I was starting from scratch and wanted a closed system, a 3 font kegerator, 3 new kegs, taps, fittings, spunding valve and a bottle of co2 would set me back about $1500 not $18k for 3 WWs


----------



## lael (21/8/14)

Quote: 

humble apologies for the troll - couldn't resist. But jeepers you blokes are good for a wind up 

Truer words...


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## manticle (21/8/14)

I understand the expense and limitations - presumably if designing your own, you could take the positives and reduce/remove the negatives.


----------



## Blind Dog (21/8/14)

Just in case anyone takes any of my posts on this thread the wrong way, if you have $6k and want to buy a WW, then fair play to you and I wish you many pleasant pints.


----------



## roger mellie (21/8/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> No one has answered the question of where the kitten goes. We all know you cant do a decent ferment without a kitten.


No chance of kittens/cats/rats or anything fluffy and small getting stuck in the airlock Stuey

You see my house is a rodent free zone due to the dual spot patrol - cat shredders


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (21/8/14)

roger mellie said:


> No chance of kittens in the airlock Stuey


Well....as previously mentioned, it is a major design flaw.

Will this be rectified in the WW v2.0 ?


----------



## Feldon (21/8/14)

Seems to me, if I was in the market for something like the WW, I'd be looking further across the Pacific to North America and checking out the Brewha 3-in1 BIAC.

Its a system for recirculated mashing, boiling and fermenting all in the one double-skinned conical vessel (76 litres).

Vessel is pressure rated for 5psi so you can ferment under pressure (and transfer wort out to other fermenters, and beer out to kegs, to free up the vessel for further brews). I don't see why you couldn't also use the same vessel as a keg for dispensing.

You can make kit/extract beer in it, or go all-grain using the stainless 'colander' which acts like a solid-walled BIAB bag (or just use a BIAB bag instead). You can also use the vessel for wine making and (with a few extras) distilling (essential oils only, of course).

The double-skin jacket allows for temp control using chilled water - means extra cost for a freezer/fridge. Add that to the cost of US$3,260 + shipping and you still get a much more versatile system for about 60-70% of the cost of the WW.

Similar small footprint too. And if you think it doesn't look as sexy as the WW for permanent placement in the house, a little cabinet work would produce an enclosure to suit your taste.

http://brewha.co/products/biac-package


----------



## TheWiggman (21/8/14)

How is this thread 8 pages long?
Hasn't this all been said in two other threads already? Hang on... yes I am in the new thread.

Stop posting you clowns!


----------



## warra48 (21/8/14)

TheWiggman said:


> How is this thread 8 pages long?
> Hasn't this all been said in two other threads already? Hang on... yes I am in the new thread.
> 
> Stop posting you clowns!


This thread is too amusing to lock it, although it probably should be moved to the Pub.


----------



## Blind Dog (21/8/14)

warra48 said:


> This thread is too amusing to lock it, although it probably should be moved to the Pub.


Is RM buying?


----------



## sponge (21/8/14)

Only one beer at a time.


----------



## Adr_0 (21/8/14)

I'm gasping and covering my mouth in shock, but I can't look away... 

I guess quite simply: I won't be buying one neither the price nor function meet what I'm after at the moment in a brewery. Take that as feedback, but I suspect I am not WW's target market... Much like 99.99823% of the people on this forum sorry Roger. 

Happy brewing as always...

EDIT: And it's pronounced "Caa'arn Straya" btw...


----------



## roger mellie (21/8/14)

Feldon said:


> Seems to me, if I was in the market for something like the WW, I'd be looking further across the Pacific to North America and checking out the Brewha 3-in1 BIAC.
> 
> Its a system for recirculated mashing, boiling and fermenting all in the one double-skinned conical vessel (76 litres).
> 
> ...


Must 

Re frain

From

Answering 

But since you mentioned it

5Psi Feldon? Wont be very well carbonated (need about 20-25 pSi.g for that) - and at 5Psi you have 0.34 M of head to play with - aint going to be pumping much stuff around a brewery with that pressure.

RM


----------



## Whiteferret (21/8/14)

5 psi equals 34kpa and 3.5m of head pressure so I think that would be plenty to transfer. I set my gas reg to between 60 - 80 kpa bit of a top up with the gas and your good to go.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (21/8/14)

meh


I drink straight from the fermenter

If you hold the glass down low and let it froth, its like cask ale.

Can a WW do cask ale..?


Note:- My method of doing a cask ale may not actually be close to the actual method or very scientifphic...but.. it still tastes good...


----------



## Edak (22/8/14)

wobbly said:


> The "Ones and Zeros" system cost $12,000 plus !!!! check out this topic for the details https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=16336.0 and you guys think owning a WW is over the top
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Wobbly


Don't forget that you aren't supplying anything to actually create wort. I see $1700 for both fermenters, $1200 for both fridges and probably $1200 for keezer. I am being relatively conservative here. 

SO if i was to go down the path of creating the mother of breweries like that then yes 12k. However, if i wanted to go diy BM then I could still keep the total under 6k and have much more gear for my money to look at and admire. I would have 4 taps, ability to ferment 100L at a time, a much more awesome set up plus with all grain brewing using bulk ingredients saves hundreds over goop and brand name chemicals.

LOL at you for saying the gear in the photo cost 12k.


----------



## Adr_0 (22/8/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> meh
> 
> 
> I drink straight from the fermenter
> ...


Very close. I think a TRUE cask ale needs to have been on wood for some time, so a splash of your finest Fruity Lexia should add that dry finish. yuuuummm..


----------



## sp0rk (22/8/14)

Throw an oak domino into the fermenter halfway through fermentation
BAM, true cask ale!


----------



## Adr_0 (22/8/14)

sp0rk said:


> Throw an oak domino into the fermenter halfway through fermentation
> BAM, true cask ale!


And it would work in the WW too... If you wrap it in $100 notes. 

Ah this trolling game doesn't suit me...


----------



## mje1980 (22/8/14)

This is just another thing to add to the list of "things I'm stunned people actually pay for".


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies (22/8/14)

mje1980 said:


> This is just another thing to add to the list of "things I'm stunned people actually pay for".


Obviously Pro member ship is on the list too ? 
Hang on, I shouldn't give the marketing folk at WW the idea.
Nev


----------



## billygoat (22/8/14)

Adr_0 said:


> Very close. I think a TRUE cask ale needs to have been on wood for some time, so a splash of your finest Fruity Lexia should add that dry finish. yuuuummm..


Not many cask ales spend any time in wood.
The vast majority of casks have been SS for years.


----------



## Adr_0 (22/8/14)

billygoat said:


> Not many cask ales spend any time in wood.
> The vast majority of casks have been SS for years.


Ah, another one of those terminology thingies. 

Well then, to get the true cask ale flavour I guess you need to drop a stainless ignot into the fermenter... Or a stainless ignot wrapped in $100 notes if you use a WW.


----------



## tavas (22/8/14)

Adr_0 said:


> Ah, another one of those terminology thingies.
> 
> Well then, to get the true cask ale flavour I guess you need to drop a stainless ignot into the fermenter... Or a stainless ignot wrapped in $100 notes if you use a WW.


Use platinum instead. $100 notes block your taps.


----------



## Elz (22/8/14)

I like taking the piss as much as the next guy. But it's kinda sad that on the progressive forum where is normal to create or alter beer styles, make new equipment and generally innovate (get away from the main stream) that the majority of blokes, and I assume some gals as well, are soooo conservative towards the WW. For Fukcs sake, you may not like the owner but does that make it a bad product? It is expensive, but does that make it a bad piece of equipment. It does not ferment two brews at once, does that make unworthy of purchasing (ps get over this issue as it is so simple to bottle a some beer between brews it not funny).



I get that most members her enjoy making things from scratch, but people can walk and chew gum at the same time.

plus the people that have purchased a WW are overwhelming over the moon with their purchase. 

plus I love the original post was a troll, some irony in this.

Anyway cheers and heres to my perfectly fermented draught beer poured at the right temperature from a vessel that is easy to clean and use. (albeit costing a small fortune!)
Elz

PS probably buy a Grainfather when they are released in Aus as I couldn't be bothered making one from scratch (more wasted money? food for thought?)


----------



## sp0rk (22/8/14)

Elz said:


> PS probably buy a Grainfather when they are released in Aus as I couldn't be bothered making one from scratch (more wasted money? food for thought?)


A little birdie tells me they're going to retail for under $1k...


----------



## Blind Dog (22/8/14)

Whilt you



Elz said:


> I like taking the piss as much as the next guy. But it's kinda sad that on the progressive forum where is normal to create or alter beer styles, make new equipment and generally innovate (get away from the main stream) that the majority of blokes, and I assume some gals as well, are soooo conservative towards the WW. For Fukcs sake, you may not like the owner but does that make it a bad product? It to expensive, but does that make it a bad piece of equipment. It does not ferment two brews at once, does that make unworthy of purchasing (ps get over this issue as it is so simple to bottle a some beer between brews it not funny).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


[SIZE=medium]Whilst you may love your WW, not a lot of people see the point. It just seems to be a very expensive one of these: http://www.beermachine.com/[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]It’s designed to ferment 1 beer at a time, and costs a hell of a lot of money. Now if I could ferment and pour 3 or 4 beers at once, it would make more sense (still overpriced mind). If it fermented beer and allowed me to keg or bottle under pressure and didn’t cost 50 times more than a brand new keg and spunding valve set up that would do the same thing, it would make more sense. But it doesn’t, so it doesn’t.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]You love it and defend it like a proud father. Fair play and good on you and I wish you and everyone who ever owns one many happy, perfectly fermented pints. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]PS: just secretly I suspect that (just about) everybody was well aware that the 1st[/SIZE] post was a troll, but its fun…


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## Bridges (22/8/14)

sp0rk said:


> A little birdie tells me they're going to retail for under $1k...


Is it a birdie like this one Thats $995 un zud pesos. Or about $15.50 Australian.

Not that I'd deliberately fish for a response as I've nothing better to do...


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## Josh SA (22/8/14)

Blind Dog said:


> [SIZE=medium]It’s designed to ferment 1 beer at a time, and costs a hell of a lot of money. Now if I could ferment and pour 3 or 4 beers at once, it would make more sense (still overpriced mind). If it fermented beer and allowed me to keg or bottle under pressure and didn’t cost 50 times more than a brand new keg and spunding valve set up that would do the same thing, it would make more sense. But it doesn’t, so it doesn’t.[/SIZE]
> [SIZE=medium]You love it and defend it like a proud father. Fair play and good on you and I wish you and everyone who ever owns one many happy, perfectly fermented pints. [/SIZE]
> [SIZE=medium]PS: just secretly I suspect that (just about) everybody was well aware that the 1st[/SIZE] post was a troll, but its fun…


Agreed.

I think our temp controlled ferment fridges, plastic fvs, healthy yeast pitches & airlocks or glad wrap are more than capable of producing great beer.

The saying, "Brewers make wort & yeast make beer" sums up the creative part of brewing that most of us are attracted to.

I love monitoring the ferment but get a lot more satisfaction from producing the wort, especially when you get it spot on.


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## roger mellie (22/8/14)

"I think our temp controlled ferment fridges, plastic fvs, healthy yeast pitches & airlocks or glad wrap are more than capable of producing great beer."

Nah - Stainless Conicals are the shiznitz - everyone knows this

You just aren't a real brewer unless you are fermenting in a stainless conical.

RM


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## mje1980 (22/8/14)

Yeah but they only cost a couple of hundred bucks, so they can't produce as good a beer as a WW surely


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## Elz (22/8/14)

I kinda get where your coming from, but your argument falls down when it comes to money. It's such a subjective notion. For someone living in India and earning a couple of dollars a day reading this blog would think, WTF are these aholes talking about. Whilst some no the other end of the spectrum some of the top earners could spend 6K at a drop of the hat (but still not be invested in the mindset of trying to brew quality beer). This leaves us in the middle +/-. For me being a DINC, 6K is a lotta money, but working full-time in a very, very demanding job the simplicity of the WW, and the resulting quality beer, gives me great happiness. Agreed its a lot of money, and most likely aimed at a specific market, but its still a great product. I cannot afford an expensive car but do I say all Ferrai'owners are dickheads, no. (by the way in no way am I comparing Ferrai with WW). But I see the beauty that owner of such a car sees in such a vehicle. Likewise, a home brewer with a second hand fridge used as a fermenting vessel; great; good on you mate. There is a spectrum and within this space we prioritise where we wish to place our self in it. For me, my total brewing equipment outlay will be less then 10K, some will spend more, some less.
Cheers and here's to great beer.
Elz


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## Online Brewing Supplies (22/8/14)

I am happy to take your subjective notions, all the way to the bank :super:


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## Elz (22/8/14)

I'm not a fool though!


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## Elz (22/8/14)

Plus, love a good argument and a bit of banter! Plus plus you sell me something Shite, I won't be coming back!


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## Adr_0 (22/8/14)

The irony of all this is that a select few WW brewers have done more to tarnish the image than the unit itself ccould have ever done, and their attitude is far more negative and cynical than the piss-takers of AHB. 

(don't worry Elz , you are off the hook...)


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## roger mellie (22/8/14)

Adr_0 said:


> The irony of all this is that a select few WW brewers have done more to tarnish the image than the unit itself ccould have ever done, and their attitude is far more negative and cynical than the piss-takers of AHB.


I resemble that statement.


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## Ducatiboy stu (22/8/14)

Adr_0 said:


> The irony of all this is that a select few WW brewers have done more to tarnish the image than the unit itself ccould have ever done, and their attitude is far more negative and cynical than the piss-takers of AHB


Sounds like the Liberal Party


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## Blind Dog (22/8/14)

Elz said:


> I kinda get where your coming from, but your argument falls down when it comes to money. It's such a subjective notion. For someone living in India and earning a couple of dollars a day reading this blog would think, WTF are these aholes talking about. Whilst some no the other end of the spectrum some of the top earners could spend 6K at a drop of the hat (but still not be invested in the mindset of trying to brew quality beer). This leaves us in the middle +/-. For me being a DINC, 6K is a lotta money, but working full-time in a very, very demanding job the simplicity of the WW, and the resulting quality beer, gives me great happiness. Agreed its a lot of money, and most likely aimed at a specific market, but its still a great product. I cannot afford an expensive car but do I say all Ferrai'owners are dickheads, no. (by the way in no way am I comparing Ferrai with WW). But I see the beauty that owner of such a car sees in such a vehicle. Likewise, a home brewer with a second hand fridge used as a fermenting vessel; great; good on you mate. There is a spectrum and within this space we prioritise where we wish to place our self in it. For me, my total brewing equipment outlay will be less then 10K, some will spend more, some less.
> Cheers and here's to great beer.
> Elz


Anyone who calls you a dickhead for spending your $ as you see fit, is themselves a dickhead. I can't comprehend why anyone would buy one as I really can't see the point of a WW, but I truly hope you and everyone who buys one enjoys it and the beers you make with it. Because at the end of the day that's the whole point of what we all do. How you spend your $ does not affect me in any way shape or form, but it is good fun to take the Michael and wind you up a little. Particularly when I suspect that was the whole point of RMs original post.

And I'm sorry but someone needs to tell them that their testimonial videos are just hilarious. Get some bikini clad goddesses using it in the ads rather than lonely old blokes who look like they're getting ready to face the grim reaper and I reckon sales would go through the roof and you, RM and wobbly would be seen as visionaries. Maybe


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## manticle (22/8/14)

Elz said:


> I kinda get where your coming from, but your argument falls down when it comes to money. It's such a subjective notion. For someone living in India and earning a couple of dollars a day reading this blog would think, WTF are these aholes talking about. Whilst some no the other end of the spectrum some of the top earners could spend 6K at a drop of the hat (but still not be invested in the mindset of trying to brew quality beer). This leaves us in the middle +/-. For me being a DINC, 6K is a lotta money, but working full-time in a very, very demanding job the simplicity of the WW, and the resulting quality beer, gives me great happiness. Agreed its a lot of money, and most likely aimed at a specific market, but its still a great product. I cannot afford an expensive car but do I say all Ferrai'owners are dickheads, no. (by the way in no way am I comparing Ferrai with WW). But I see the beauty that owner of such a car sees in such a vehicle. Likewise, a home brewer with a second hand fridge used as a fermenting vessel; great; good on you mate. There is a spectrum and within this space we prioritise where we wish to place our self in it. For me, my total brewing equipment outlay will be less then 10K, some will spend more, some less.
> Cheers and here's to great beer.
> Elz


Yes..........


And no.

Subjectivity and relativity. Forget the 6k or the 3rd world for a sec. You are dealing with first worlders who have a decent understanding of brewing processes and equipment required. For most of them it's about value for money, balancing between product and effort (as it is for you, RM or wobbly for starters). While I have made it clear that I am not a fan of simply repeating 'spensivedoesntmakewort', there are points that could/should be addresed from a marketing petspective to make it appeal as more than a rich man's toy. 

I'd be far more interested talking about the engineering, design, manufacture and future possible improvements than the price but whether it does what it is supposed to do and is value for money ( whatever that money is) is a valid discussion point. If you're trying to sell something and someone, reasonably, with some knowledge of the subject suggests it's a bit pricey then it's not a great idea to dismiss them out of hand. Improvements can be made, marketability can increase.


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## pk.sax (22/8/14)

Has someone in this nine page wonder yet called it a Williams Wank yet?


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## manticle (22/8/14)

Yes


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## roger mellie (22/8/14)

manticle said:


> Yes..........
> 
> 
> And no.
> ...


Interesting point of view Manticle - and a voice of reason in what has really become a wind up thread. I think that was the point in the beginning - I appreciated Elz and my mate Wobbly for raking the coals. I completely disagree with some of the elitist comments made here - I can only speak for myself here - Im not ******* elitist.

I would make the point that I believe my beers have always been good - that I have made some ordinary beers in the WW - but that I can (IN MY OPINION) not put any blame on the fermenting/post boil temperature control/carbonation/introduction of any O2 now. The fact that post boil - I cool and dump in the WW - then set the temp and pitch at a consistent temp - knowing there is a minute change of an infection as the WW allows me to purge the headspace with CO2 and put a positive pressure on the wort prior to pitching. In other words - I believe I have made one aspect of beer making a given, ticked that box and moved my focus onto the first half of the puzzle - hitting targets, repeatability, you know what I saying. This is no bad thing and was the main reason for me buying one of these.

When I say I know Ian Williams - I have met him a number of times and I have brought up the cost of the WW and this being a barrier for 'acceptance by the masses'. Without giving too much away I think WW really struggled in their first years - they are probably only just solvent. I don't think Ian is getting rich off these things, but I know he is passionate and a pretty canny judge of what his market is. I don't think he sees this place as his market.

So the points you make about value engineering and possibly a more realistic price probably hinge on how many units he can sell and how that flows into increased sales, is a valid one.

I wouldn't expect a price reduction any time soon.

I did see one for sale 2nd hand in NZ for 3000 - which depressed me - I thought they would hold their value better than that - but this is a lifetime purchase - no question.

Time for this thread to die - along with the rest of them - for Stuey to polish up his shiny silver Moto Guzzi clone, pack his multimeter and set off for his Latte and dream about red bikes - as I shall.

Im the immortal words of the great man

Screw you guys - I'm going home.

RM


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## Blind Dog (22/8/14)

Can't let you have the last word though.


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## manticle (22/8/14)

roger mellie said:


> Interesting point of view Manticle - and a voice of reason in what has really become a wind up thread. I think that was the point in the beginning - I appreciated Elz and my mate Wobbly for raking the coals. I completely disagree with some of the elitist comments made here - I can only speak for myself here - Im not ******* elitist.
> 
> I would make the point that I believe my beers have always been good - that I have made some ordinary beers in the WW - but that I can (IN MY OPINION) not put any blame on the fermenting/post boil temperature control/carbonation/introduction of any O2 now. The fact that post boil - I cool and dump in the WW - then set the temp and pitch at a consistent temp - knowing there is a minute change of an infection as the WW allows me to purge the headspace with CO2 and put a positive pressure on the wort prior to pitching. In other words - I believe I have made one aspect of beer making a given, ticked that box and moved my focus onto the first half of the puzzle - hitting targets, repeatability, you know what I saying. This is no bad thing and was the main reason for me buying one of these.
> 
> ...


I'm sure he's very business savvy and knows his market well but knowing the future market is important (I won't suggest as important) as is knowing the current one.

The response here is fairly typical but if you dig deeper, there is info that could be useful. WW is marketed at homebrewers at some kind of level. That level could maybe be increased - price may not be the thing that needs reduction, just functionality might need to be increased. Add an optional feature for wort production, add a second/third vessel for maturation while a third is fermented, etc.

Braumeister was criticised for price when it first came out (and I can afford neither system) but its appeal is undeniable and the company acknowledges its market, accepts feedback and makes improvements based on that. WW is an HB system. Feedback, negative or positive from HB guys should help the product and its appeal grow.


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## Dan Pratt (22/8/14)

I wonder if it makes a nice hoppy IPA.....


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## Ducatiboy stu (22/8/14)

roger mellie said:


> Time for this thread to die - along with the rest of them - for Stuey to polish up his shiny silver Moto Guzzi clone, pack his multimeter and set off for his Latte and dream about red bikes -


Go f.......oh never mind


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## Yob (22/8/14)

Elz said:


> I like taking the piss as much as the next guy. But it's kinda sad that on the progressive forum where is normal to create or alter beer styles, make new equipment and generally innovate (get away from the main stream) that the majority of blokes, and I assume some gals as well, are soooo conservative towards the WW. For Fukcs sake, you may not like the owner but does that make it a bad product? It is expensive, but does that make it a bad piece of equipment. It does not ferment two brews at once, does that make unworthy of purchasing (ps get over this issue as it is so simple to bottle a some beer between brews it not funny).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gizoogled..

I wanna bust a nut on takin tha piss as much as tha next muthafucka. But itz kinda fucked up dat on tha progressive forum where be aiiight ta create or alter brew styles, make freshly smoked up shiznit n' generally innovate (get away from tha main stream) dat tha majoritizzle of blokes, n' I assume some gals as well, is soooo conservatizzle towardz tha WW. For Fukcs sake, you may not like tha balla but do dat make it a wack product, biatch? It be expensive yo, but do dat make it a wack piece of shit. Well shiiiit, it do not ferment two brews at once, do dat make unworthy of purchasin (ps git over dis issue as it is so simple ta forty a some brew between brews it not funky).



I git dat most thugz her trip off makin thangs from scratch yo, but playas can strutt n' chew gum all up in tha same time.

plus tha playas dat have purchased a WW is overwhelmin over tha moon wit they purchase. 

plus I gots a straight-up boner fo' tha original gangsta post was a troll, some irony up in all dis bullshit.

Anyway cheers n' heres ta mah perfectly fermented draught brew poured all up in tha right temperature from a vessel dat is easy as **** ta clean n' use. (albeit costin a lil' small-ass fortune!)
Elz

PS probably loot a Grainfather when they is busted out up in Aus as I couldn't be bothered makin one from scratch (more wasted scrilla, biatch? chicken fo' thought?)


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## Blind Dog (22/8/14)

manticle said:


> I'm sure he's very business savvy and knows his market well but knowing the future market is important (I won't suggest as important) as is knowing the current one.
> The response here is fairly typical but if you dig deeper, there is info that could be useful. WW is marketed at homebrewers at some kind of level. That level could maybe be increased - price may not be the thing that needs reduction, just functionality might need to be increased. Add an optional feature for wort production, add a second/third vessel for maturation while a third is fermented, etc.
> Braumeister was criticised for price when it first came out (and I can afford neither system) but its appeal is undeniable and the company acknowledges its market, accepts feedback and makes improvements based on that. WW is an HB system. Feedback, negative or positive from HB guys should help the product and its appeal grow.


It's Friday night, and you're making sensible cogent arguments? WTF is wrong with you? Uninformed opinion is the future


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## Blind Dog (22/8/14)

Yob said:


> Gizoogled..
> 
> I wanna bust a nut on takin tha piss as much as tha next muthafucka. But itz kinda fucked up dat on tha progressive forum where be aiiight ta create or alter brew styles, make freshly smoked up shiznit n' generally innovate (get away from tha main stream) dat tha majoritizzle of blokes, n' I assume some gals as well, is soooo conservatizzle towardz tha WW. For Fukcs sake, you may not like tha balla but do dat make it a wack product, biatch? It be expensive yo, but do dat make it a wack piece of shit. Well shiiiit, it do not ferment two brews at once, do dat make unworthy of purchasin (ps git over dis issue as it is so simple ta forty a some brew between brews it not funky).
> 
> ...


You're not meant to smoke the hops...


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## manticle (22/8/14)

Blind Dog said:


> It's Friday night, and you're making sensible cogent arguments? WTF is wrong with you? Uninformed opinion is the future


I'm drinking beer and whiskey, listening to weedeater and uncle acid and doing my very best to become an incoherent, babbling mess but it is only 9:30.

See you in an hour?


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## Blind Dog (22/8/14)

manticle said:


> I'm drinking beer and whiskey, listening to weedeater and uncle acid and doing my very best to become an incoherent, babbling mess but it is only 9:30.
> See you in an hour?


May be comatose in an hour. Stuffed up an EIPA by dry hopping with citra, damn it's smooth


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## pk.sax (22/8/14)

Blind Dog said:


> You're not meant to smoke the hops...


Don't knock what you haven't tried


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## Yob (22/8/14)

I like my hops in a drip


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## Blind Dog (22/8/14)

practicalfool said:


> Don't knock what you haven't tried


I'm not


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## Ducatiboy stu (23/8/14)

Could......not....resist...

The WW promo clip

http://youtu.be/GiHdpAVIHgo


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## wobbly (24/8/14)

Been absent for a couple of days travelling from Broome to Perth

Yes I am retired , own a 6.1 meter Boroma Caravan and yes you guessed it the "tug" is a Jeep as well

Next Question ---- What Colour !!!!!!

Back on topic

Not withstanding all the adverse posts/comments no one on this or the previous threads on the Williamswarn subject have been able to post or reference a product regardless of price/cost that is either commercially available or DIY that does everything (or anything like/close to) what the WW does

There have been many throw away comments that they or some one else could reproduce a similar system for significant less dollars but no one has put their hand up to do just that. Maybe some of the various technical issues are a "stretch too far"

Even the "Ones and Zeros'' system at $12,000 plus referenced above (whilst producing larger volumes) doesn't in a single vessel produce chilled carbonated beer ready for consumption without the need for additional steps of kegging and carbonating prior to serving via some sort of keggerator. The WW does this plus has the added advantage of being able to keg carbonated beer ready for consumption if desired

So come on guys (trolls) produce the goods rather than just rhetoric

Cheers

Wobbly


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## Yob (24/8/14)

wobbly said:


> There have been many throw away comments that they or some one else could reproduce a similar system for significant less dollars but no one has put their hand up to do just that. Maybe some of the various technical issues are a "stretch too far"


incorrect, read the thread through


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## Ducatiboy stu (24/8/14)

You may have to email the reasons in English..

The WW guys need a hard copy, which amounts to 378 pages, of reasons why most brewers wont, and never will, buy a wILLIAMS wANK.

Page 1

How NOT to piss AG Brewers off by telling them they dont know how to brew beer


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## pk.sax (24/8/14)

I'm sure if I automated the salt and ph measurement of my water it would produce brilliant beer again and again. I mean, the commercials tightly control that stuff, so should I. Right, I want a machine that'd plug into a braumeister and accurately measure and dose automatically all salts, ph adjustment, hops, bitterness units and colour adjustments etc.

Any machine that can't self contained do all that just is an inferior way to do things and those who persist in their primitive ways are cave trolls.

^ consider this idea copyrighted so Mr Wank can't claim it for his next 10k product. You've been warned. This site will date stamp my submission of this concept forever.


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## PaleRider (24/8/14)

Please stop... This is not your audience. I'm not sure what is your audience but eh bro this, clearly, is not.


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## Ducatiboy stu (24/8/14)

practicalfool said:


> I'm sure if I automated the salt and ph measurement of my water it would produce brilliant beer again and again. I mean, the commercials tightly control that stuff, so should I. Right, I want a machine that'd plug into a braumeister and accurately measure and dose automatically all salts, ph adjustment, hops, bitterness units and colour adjustments etc.
> 
> Any machine that can't self contained do all that just is an inferior way to do things and those who persist in their primitive ways are cave trolls.
> 
> ^ consider this idea copyrighted so Mr Wank can't claim it for his next 10k product. You've been warned. This site will date stamp my submission of this concept forever.


PF... your missing the point

WW says that you you can make Commercial Quality beer with their kits, tins and machine.

Ian Williams actually stated that in an email that was posted on AHB

If they want to make mega swill from a $6K machine, then ******* good on them

I can buy that shit for $33 Carton


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## Ducatiboy stu (24/8/14)

wobbly said:


> Been absent for a couple of days travelling from Broome to Perth
> 
> Yes I am retired , own a 6.1 meter Boroma Caravan and yes you guessed it the "tug" is a Jeep as well
> 
> ...


You need Joe Hockey on your side.


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## pk.sax (24/8/14)

I don't care. Wanker warn says you are a moron to question my superior intelligence. You don't argue with a rocket scientist. Piss off you troll.


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## Ducatiboy stu (24/8/14)

practicalfool said:


> I don't care. Wanker warn says you are a moron to question my superior intelligence. You don't argue with a rocket scientist. Piss off you troll.


Great marketing ploy to mention that....and let the WW fan club post it


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## Bridges (25/8/14)

wobbly said:


> Not withstanding all the adverse posts/comments no one on this or the previous threads on the Williamswarn subject have been able to post or reference a product regardless of price/cost that is either commercially available or DIY that does everything (or anything like/close to) what the WW does
> 
> There have been many throw away comments that they or some one else could reproduce a similar system for significant less dollars but no one has put their hand up to do just that. Maybe some of the various technical issues are a "stretch too far"
> 
> ...


What about this buy three and a temp controlled bar fridge and have plenty of change from $6k. Have three taps at once WOW!


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## Adr_0 (25/8/14)

wobbly said:


> Been absent for a couple of days travelling from Broome to Perth
> 
> Yes I am retired , own a 6.1 meter Boroma Caravan and yes you guessed it the "tug" is a Jeep as well
> 
> ...


Who are the trolls here? Perhaps read the original post and the subject of the thread to find the answer. 

The WW does look slick and has some great features. The blunt reality is that the vast majority of people here will not pay $6000 - no matter how good the fermenter, coming jacket, tap/dispensing system is - when you are limited to using extract. Or, you need to invest another few grand on a wort making machine of some sort. 

Are there not fermenters out there that are jacketed and can be pressurised? That would serve most of the function of the WW and you would at least get some change to spend on other things. 

This looked interesting when I saw it on Kickstarter, but not sure of the status/price:
http://www.picobrew.com/


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## MastersBrewery (25/8/14)

wobbly said:


> Been absent for a couple of days travelling from Broome to Perth
> 
> Yes I am retired , own a 6.1 meter Boroma Caravan and yes you guessed it the "tug" is a Jeep as well
> 
> ...


So your saying your willing to pay $4500 for a couple of tricloves with ball lock valves. As stated before a brewhemoth in Brew PI controlled fridge can do the same thing. Want bling get a fridge with a glass door! Oh wait all of that would take effort and would mean you need to learn stuff. If that is really where this is coming from hey just stop by the bottle shop and save ALL the effort

ED; typo


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