# Can You Reuse Yeast Cakes Like Beer ?



## vicelore (10/12/09)

Hey guys

Got a question for you.. Had a cider sitting in a fementer for the past week and im plannin on kegging it within the next few days.. My mates will be keen for some more ASAP so im thinking im going to chuck in another 40L the same day..

My question is.. i know with beer you can leave a cake on the bottom of the fementer after racking off and use the yeast in that to make your next brew by simply pooring the new brew onto the old yeast left overs

So can i do the same with cider ?? Iv read that it dosent have much krusen when fementing and wondering if this will be a problem.
This brew was made with 40L of Safeways home brand apple juice 2 satchets of S05 and a table spoon of yeast nutrent.
Thanks Guys looking forward to the responses and the tasting comming up soon 

Cheers Vice


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## jonocarroll (10/12/09)

vicelore said:


> and a table spoon of yeast nutrent.


Not sure about the yeast cake question (though I can't personally see why it would be a problem) but I will query the above point of adding yeast nutrient - presumably to the fermenter. Is that correct?

The only yeast nutrient I've seen (and admittedly, I haven't seen very many) needs to be boiled first. :blink:


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## drsmurto (10/12/09)

DAP (diammonium phosphate) is commonly used as a yeast nutrient and doesn't need to be boiled.

As for the yeast cake, the last run of ciders i did used Wyeast 4766.

After racking off each batch i simply poured another 20L of apple juice into the fermenter! 

No trub, its just clean yeast. I stopped after 3 batches.

Reminds me, i need to make another cider......


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## brettprevans (10/12/09)

ok so im not basis this on anything but logic

its the yeast that does the fermenting not the liquid providing the sugar. so it shouldnt matter what you stick ontop of a yeast cake/ so long as there is sugar it will ferment. (unless of the course the yeast has died, but im assuming you havent starved the yeast or killed them with extreme heat or cold).

so dump away

no in regards to nutrient. the one i have it just chuck in. read your nutirent and follw its directions. but yeah its a good idea to throw some nutrient in.

edit: beaten


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## vicelore (10/12/09)

Didnt know you needed to boil the stuff.. It went straight in the fementer with the yeast..

The stuff i used was this i think.. I just had it lieing around for ages..

http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product_in...roducts_id=7670

Hope its all good.. 

Cheers Vice


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## jonocarroll (10/12/09)

vicelore said:


> Didnt know you needed to boil the stuff.. It went straight in the fementer with the yeast..
> 
> The stuff i used was this i think.. I just had it lieing around for ages..
> 
> http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product_in...roducts_id=7670



Wyeast's opinion on the matter: 



> *Usage Instructions:* Dissolve Wyeast Nutrient in warm water. Add solution to kettle 10-15 minutes prior to end of boil.


from: http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_productdetail.cfm?ProductID=15

As for whether or not you _have_ to, well I dunno.


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## vicelore (10/12/09)

Iv been reading the simple cider thread going atm and allot of the guys use yeast nutrient and im pretty sure none of them boil anything in the brew.. so sounds like it should be ok. I think i read the directions on the tube and cant recall reading anything regarding boiling. Ill check tonight.

So regarding using the cake i can fully empty the fementer then just top it back up with new juice ?? or should i leave 1L or so in there ?? I was going to empty from the tap in the bottom, should i just rack from the top ?? I have a syphon so thats cool if thats best.


Cheers Guys, Vice


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## komodo (10/12/09)

I've never added nutrient never had trouble.
I do how ever add a bit of (sanitised) copper pipe to the fermenter when I put the juice in after a mate who does a bit of wine making a water purification suggested i do it when I complained on my first batch about fart smells...

As for reusing the yeast - why not?!


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## Infinitee (10/12/09)

Certainly repitch with cider yeast, very keen.

I pull mine while still actively fermenting, a short way from semi-dry ..
Bottle up (the unfermented apple juice is the primer) and use the dregs to start a new batch.
Or many new batches 

Yeast ferments apple juice pretty easy, no need for nutrient in this one imo.
Just ferment it cool.
(At least that works well for my wine-yeast version, anyway)


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## WarmBeer (10/12/09)

The fructose in apple juice will ferment faster and harder than maltose in wort.

I don't see any reason why you would need to add yeast nutrient.


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## Airgead (10/12/09)

Repitching should be OK is the yeast is healthy. You can over pitch so you might not want to use the whole yeast cake.

Boiling nutrient - depends on the type. Some (like DAP) are just a chemical that dissolves. No need to boil there. Others contain dead yeast cells which need to be boiled to break them down enough for your yeast to absorb their nutrients. Not sure what's in the wyeast one you are using.

There is nothing to stop you boiling it up in a little water and adding it to the brew though.

Cheers
Dave


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## cdbrown (10/12/09)

I'll be taking a few cups of slurry from my current cider and put them in stubbies, cap and put in the fridge for later use. So if you think that you'll be doing another cider down the track then keep a cup in storage.


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## RdeVjun (10/12/09)

DrSmurto said:


> DAP (diammonium phosphate) is commonly used as a yeast nutrient and doesn't need to be boiled.
> 
> As for the yeast cake, the last run of ciders i did used Wyeast 4766.
> 
> ...


Interesting and timely for me- spousie is adamant I'll be making her some cider over the next few weeks and was thinking seriously about this strain, so Dr S, would you use it again?

I'll certainly be using this method though, it sounds just so easy! Maybe harvest a bit of slurry into a Schott for later use, but there's no mashing, boiling and otherwise farting about with this stuff, just pour it in, pop the fermenter back in the fridge, sit back and watch. For someone getting a teensy bit AG- weary, this is just so attractive!
B) 

BTW, this is getting a bit OT, but I note plenty of other strains have been used successfully in cider, anyone used other ale strains, I was thinking of some 1469 with its stonefruit for a twist, or 1768 as a sweeter variant? :blink:


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## drsmurto (11/12/09)

DAP is ok but its not a complete nutrient.

Not sure exactly what my current yeast nutrient is which, for a scientist is a tad lazy but..... its from beerbelly and i add it with 5-10 mins to go in the boil. 

For ciders you could just boil it on the stove with some water or apple juice for a few mins.

And yes, cider making can be that easy. 10 x 2L berri preservative free apple juice (or a combo of the apple and pear). Next time i will be using Frankos idea and adding ~200g of LDME and some fresh apples (or juice).

If doing another run of ciders i would use a cup of the slurry rather than the whole yeast cake as after 2 consecutive dumps the temp was a bit hard to control!


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## RdeVjun (13/12/09)

DrSmurto said:


> DAP is ok but its not a complete nutrient.
> 
> Not sure exactly what my current yeast nutrient is which, for a scientist is a tad lazy but..... its from beerbelly and i add it with 5-10 mins to go in the boil.
> 
> ...


I can imagine the fridge would get a teensy bit warm at that pitching rate! And messy too I guess... I pitched on to a whole 1469 yeastcake once, it was finished in about three days and generated enough heat to give the three other fermenters in that big fridge a nice D-rest with ease (was actually well- timed!). Can't recommend this, but the beer was still quite OK though. 

What I was really wondering about though Dr S, was the Wy 4766- sorry I didn't make it very clear in my post. There's new stock arrived just this week, I want to fart about with some other ale yeasts that have been my bread and butter too, but to start things off again I'll use a specific cider yeast. I've seen conflicting reports about 4766, just curious what other folks have found.

:icon_cheers:


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## Airgead (15/12/09)

RdeVjun said:


> What I was really wondering about though Dr S, was the Wy 4766- sorry I didn't make it very clear in my post. There's new stock arrived just this week, I want to fart about with some other ale yeasts that have been my bread and butter too, but to start things off again I'll use a specific cider yeast. I've seen conflicting reports about 4766, just curious what other folks have found.
> 
> :icon_cheers:


I really like the 4766. The ciders I have done with it have turned out great. I make mine from apples though not shop bought juice and I blend varieties to taste. I know some who have used shop bought juice have had some mixed results with it though.

Cheers
Dave


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## drsmurto (16/12/09)

RdeVjun said:


> I can imagine the fridge would get a teensy bit warm at that pitching rate! And messy too I guess... I pitched on to a whole 1469 yeastcake once, it was finished in about three days and generated enough heat to give the three other fermenters in that big fridge a nice D-rest with ease (was actually well- timed!). Can't recommend this, but the beer was still quite OK though.
> 
> What I was really wondering about though Dr S, was the Wy 4766- sorry I didn't make it very clear in my post. There's new stock arrived just this week, I want to fart about with some other ale yeasts that have been my bread and butter too, but to start things off again I'll use a specific cider yeast. I've seen conflicting reports about 4766, just curious what other folks have found.
> 
> :icon_cheers:



Seem to have missed this question, sorry about that.

I really like WY4766 for ciders. It generally finishes quite dry although i have had it finish at 1.010 once. I

love a nice dry cider, i find it more refreshing than the sweet versions. 

My partner and i enjoy it during summer. Pint glass with ice (yes, the wanky magners serving) pour in the cider and yum. 

I wonder if i could have a cider on tap by NYE.......


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## RdeVjun (16/12/09)

Many thanks for the feedback about the 4766, I'll give it a whirl. I'm a dry cider fancier, spousie prefers hers slightly sweeter but we're still bottling so vary wary of stopping it early to retain some sweetness. Hence I'll do a small pilot batch with an ale yeast such as 1768, which for mine leaves a slightly sweeter and richer finish, albeit that's in ales and may not necessarily be the case in a cider.

Ice would be OK too Dr S- its your drink not anyone else's, so you can do with it what you damn well please! Good luck with the NYE batch, in the next few days I'm still quite hopeful of turning out yet another caramelised landlord for the same event, with 1469 being so vigorous there's a good chance. :beer: 

Oh, and sorry to hijack the thread...


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