# Star-san replacement....



## MrGibbon (2/5/13)

Chaps, I’ve been looking around for an equivalent alternative to Star-san and have been in touch with some suppliers.

I’ve been given some information on Diverfoam Prokleen.
I’ve attached the data sheet for you to look at.

Maybe we could do a group buy in Brisbane if anyone is interested.

The cost per 20ltr is $293.20+Gst
Which works out to be about $15 a litre, less than half the price of Star-san.

Please have a read and let me know what you think.

Cheers!
Gib


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## Edak (2/5/13)

Why are you looking for a replacement? Star san is great and once you have a bottle it will last for a reallllllly loooooooong time.


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## QldKev (2/5/13)

If your going to re-invent a wheel, fix a broken one.


I wonder what ratio you use compared to starsan. Often these cheap alternatives work out more expensive.


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## booargy (2/5/13)

I pump boiling water through everything and anything that can't be boiled gets a spray of 70% ethanol. cheap as bloke. You can then drink your sanitizer when beer don't work.


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## Phoney (2/5/13)

Anyone here used saniclean?


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## QldKev (2/5/13)

phoneyhuh said:


> Anyone here used saniclean?



One of the brewers up here used it for a while, but he said it worked out more expensive than starsan (I assume different dilution ratio), so he went back to starsan.


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## Florian (2/5/13)

MrGibbon said:


> I’ve attached the data sheet for you to look at.


No, you haven't.


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## MrGibbon (2/5/13)

Odd. trying again.
View attachment Diverfoam Prokleen PSS AU.pdf


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## jaypes (2/5/13)

The bottle of Iodophor I have is the same dilution rate as starsan.

But that's a whole other argument!


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## drsmurto (2/5/13)

A cheaper alternative would be to buy concentrated orthophosphoric acid.

Starsan (and all acid based sanitisers) work by dropping the pH to a level that reduces the bacterial population to <0.1% (or whatever claims stated by the manufacturer).


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## QldKev (2/5/13)

DrSmurto said:


> A cheaper alternative would be to buy concentrated orthophosphoric acid.
> 
> Starsan (and all acid based sanitisers) work by dropping the pH to a level that reduces the bacterial population to <0.1% (or whatever claims stated by the manufacturer).


Don't they also include a high foaming surfactant?


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## JDW81 (2/5/13)

MrGibbon said:


> The cost per 20ltr is $293.20+Gst
> Which works out to be about $15 a litre, less than half the price of Star-san.


I took me nearly 2 years to get through a litre bottle of starsan. Think I payed about $35 for it. Cost per use would be bugger all. Why not stick with something that is thoroughly tested and widely recognised as one of the most effective brewing sanitising agents around? Risk doesn't seem worth it to save a few bucks IMO.

JD


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## benno1973 (2/5/13)

Diverfoam Prokleen looks to be a recognised commercial no-rinse sanitiser for the food, beverage and dairy industry, so I'd say that it's thoroughly tested and recognised as an effective sanitising agent (maybe just not by people here on AHB). However, the relevant point of dilution ratios has been raised by QldKev. Prokleen dilution is 1:200, while Starsan is more like 1:650, so while it's half the price of Starsan, you need to use 3 times as much.


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## Bribie G (2/5/13)

In a way, analogous to Sodium Percarbonate - "hey I've found a neat nappy san at Aldi and it's cheap.

Hang on it's only 30% perc, so I really paid twelve bucks a kilo for it :blink: - should have gone in the last bulk buy  "


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## wbosher (2/5/13)

I got my first bottle of starsan about 7 months ago, it's still about 3/4 full. Shit lasts forever...


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## brad81 (2/5/13)

Bribie G said:


> In a way, analogous to Sodium Percarbonate - "hey I've found a neat nappy san at Aldi and it's cheap.
> 
> Hang on it's only 30% perc, so I really paid twelve bucks a kilo for it :blink: - should have gone in the last bulk buy  "


It's good to get you over the line, AND keep it in the house


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## drsmurto (2/5/13)

QldKev said:


> Don't they also include a high foaming surfactant?


The 'active ingredient' is orthophosphoric acid.

The surfactant is there to help it cling to surfaces and provide a visible indicator of where you have sanitised. It is not necessary but it is useful.

You could add an equal amount of 'pure soap' or do as I do and just shake the container to be sanitised a few times and allow it to sit for an extra few minutes before draining.


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## Bribie G (2/5/13)

:icon_offtopic: pure perc is an absolute killer for soaking stubborn things like my Volleys, and zaps the dishwasher once a month.

I'd agree about the Starsan, I had a third of a bottle when I moved down here six months ago and put in an order at Xmas to CraftBrewer in case I ran out. I'm now only down to a quarter of a bottle :blink: which at this rate will last me till October.


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## drsmurto (2/5/13)

Sodium percarbonate mixed 2 parts to 1 with sodium metasilicate is an even better soaker/cleaner. I use it in the brewery, dishwasher, coffee machine etc.


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## HBHB (2/5/13)

There's already an economically viable alternative one blended in Australia by Keg King.


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## QldKev (3/5/13)

HBHB said:


> There's already an economically viable alternative one blended in Australia by Keg King.



I though it required more ml in the dilution ratio making less cost effective? Or was that just the old formula?


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## 6tri6ple6 (3/5/13)

I reuse my starsan. I keep a cube of starsan made up and just pour back in what I don't use. Every time I use it I just draw off a little first and test with my ph meter. If it's under 2.5 and still foamy, you're good to go. Never have any problems with it, even if its a little cloudy. When it gets too dirty I turf it. I bought my first 500ml bottle about 2 1/2 years ago, and I still got around 1/4 bottle left. If you use rain water or even distilled water, this shit will last forever.


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## wbosher (3/5/13)

6tri6ple6 said:


> snip...this shit will last forever.





wbosher said:


> Snip...Shit lasts forever...


See a theme developing here.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (3/5/13)

Like nuclear waste lasts for ever ? :blink:
There are better sanitisers out there, check peracetic acid sanitiser.
Nev


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## RobW (3/5/13)

Herlisil is good.

hydrogen peroxide 50%
complex silver ions <0.09%
phosphoric acid as H2PO4 <1ppm
water to 100%


There was a bulk buy a few years ago, lasted me about 4 years.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/14488-melbourne-herlisil-sanitiser-bulk-buy/


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## Wimmig (5/5/13)

I don't get it. Starsan is a fine product, and lasts ages. What sort of budget reduction issue do you have to need to find a cheaper like product?


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## Natdene (6/5/13)

I use Brew San from brewers choice. Only reason is that was what I used when i started and have never changed.

From the web site - It is a mixture of Phosphoric Acid and a suphonic acid. Brew San is a low foam Acid Sanitiser. It is biodegradable and only requires 5mls per litre.


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## QldKev (6/5/13)

Natdene said:


> I use Brew San from brewers choice. Only reason is that was what I used when i started and have never changed.
> 
> From the web site - It is a mixture of Phosphoric Acid and a suphonic acid. Brew San is a low foam Acid Sanitiser. It is biodegradable and only requires 5mls per litre.


That's the point of Starsan, it only needs 1.5ml per liter making it the most cost effective one I know of.


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## bum (6/5/13)

Let's be realistic here. The difference between a "cheap" one and an "expensive" one is going to be something in the order of 0.001 cents per glass, right?

How about we all stop focusing on the cost effectiveness of other peoples' sanitisers and just worry about the effectiveness of their sanitising properties?


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## Florian (6/5/13)

Add to that people's sanitising procedures.


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