# bugger forgot to mash out



## stuartf (13/3/16)

Ok I was running up a pacific ale type brew today and forgot to raise up to mash out temp before I sparged. Will this have a big impact on the final beer? I was mashing at 66 for 60. I'm guessing this is why my post boil reading was a bit low 10.1 instead of 12.2 on the refractometer. Are there any other implications other than slightly lower efficiency?


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## manticle (13/3/16)

Don't worry


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## RdeVjun (13/3/16)

Won't be a biggie IMO either, so OG might be slightly lower, sun's still coming up tomorrow.


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## stuartf (13/3/16)

Good to know, I'll have another beer to help calm my nerves 
Cheers


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## Ducatiboy stu (13/3/16)

stuartf said:


> Ok I was running up a pacific ale type brew today and forgot to raise up to mash out temp before I sparged. Will this have a big impact on the final beer? I was mashing at 66 for 60. I'm guessing this is why my post boil reading was a bit low 10.1 instead of 12.2 on the refractometer. Are there any other implications other than slightly lower efficiency?


And then Aliens came and decided to start a war and destroy the place in order to turn earth into an Alien breading site. Along with that *CHUCK NORRIS retired* and then Metallica released another boring album. Kermit decided to become a monk because he finally figured out Miss Piggy was a female porn star.

All of things are more important than a mash out


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## bevan (13/3/16)

Did the same my first AG brew, tastes fantastic even if the OG was bit low. Just means I've got a mid-strength beer


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## ken_gilchrist (13/3/16)

If there is one thing that I have learned it is " relax, don't worry, have a home brew" (Charlie Papazian)

I am personally not really convinced that it is necessary. Being that you will raise the temp up to a boil anyway so that will halt any enzyme activity anyway. But I am certainly no expert by any means.


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## klangers (14/3/16)

The higher temperature of the mash out is intended to decrease the wort viscosity which in turn is intended to improve the run-off rate of your lauter. This aspect of the mashout isn't as relevant on a home brew scale as we can easily intervene.


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## Ducatiboy stu (14/3/16)

klangers said:


> The higher temperature of the mash out is intended to decrease the wort viscosity which in turn is intended to improve the run-off rate of your lauter. This aspect of the mashout isn't as relevant on a home brew scale as we can easily intervene.


The best thing to do to decrease wort viscosity is to add a few litres of boiling water to the mash. This is sort of a mashout as it will increase the temp ( by a little bit ) and makes sparging easier. Plus adding more water and recirculating will rinse more of da sugaz out


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## TimL (18/3/16)

I recall Jamil zainasheff at the first home brewers conference in Melbourne in 08 saying he thought the mash out was unnecessary.


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## Brendan_W (23/3/16)

So have we decided if a mash out improves efficiency? 

I've just started brewing using modified BIAB (i.e. including a sparge) and my efficiency was terrible, around 55%. I'm investigating ways to improve this and have noticed some people suggesting that mashing out will help. However it seems like the main reason to mash out is to halt enzyme activity and decrease wort viscosity for lautering (but as I'm BIABing this isn't a problem). From reading this thread it seems like there's little point in me completing a mash out but happy to be told otherwise.


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## earle (23/3/16)

Brendan_W said:


> So have we decided if a mash out improves efficiency?
> 
> I've just started brewing using modified BIAB (i.e. including a sparge) and my efficiency was terrible, around 55%. I'm investigating ways to improve this and have noticed some people suggesting that mashing out will help. However it seems like the main reason to mash out is to halt enzyme activity and decrease wort viscosity for lautering (but as I'm BIABing this isn't a problem). From reading this thread it seems like there's little point in me completing a mash out but happy to be told otherwise.


Check out this thread for some of the latest musings on BIAB and mashing out http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/90284-using-a-40l-electric-urn-for-biab-a-guide/#entry1360282


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## Ducatiboy stu (23/3/16)

TimL said:


> I recall Jamil zainasheff at the first home brewers conference in Melbourne in 08 saying he thought the mash out was unnecessary.


I thought brewers would be rioting in the streets over that comment....


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## manticle (23/3/16)

No riots - just robust discussion, mostly on the internet.
Many spectacles were adjusted.

I mash out every brew for a number of reasons but if I forgot, I would just remember next time.

Unnecessary for most single infusion mashes I reckon; I do it because I hochkurz most/every beer.


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## stuartf (23/3/16)

For what its worth my understanding would suggest the main reason to mash out is to improve extraction of the remaining sugars from the grain bed before and during sparge (or squeezing the bag or whatever you do with biab). Enzyme activity should be minimal once bulk of grains are removed from the wort and then denatured during the boil (depending how fast your temps ramp up). So yeah probably not essential assuming all of your mash schedule is working to plan but will help to get those last few % efficiency gains out of your mash. Just my guess based on a limits understanding of the whole process though.


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## Bribie G (23/3/16)

I forgot to mash out recently and just hoisted bag, efficiency and OG were spot on. I no longer mash out, but do take the mash up into the low 70s to complete any starch conversion.


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## Ducatiboy stu (24/3/16)

Bribie G said:


> I forgot to mash out


Your beer will be shit


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## welly2 (24/3/16)

I mash out for the same reasons as manctile - forget why but now it's just habit, and pretty easy to do on my GF.


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## buckerooni (24/3/16)

I like these type of threads, a 63 to 78c mash out on my 40L urn with a 6.5kg grain bill (and no overside element to help out) adds another 25 mins to mashing on a 'schoolnight brew'. gonna drop this step and see how I goes...struggling to get the schoolnight brew under 3 hrs but this may help!

Sparging with another hot water source at 78c with the double bucket technique may be a dodgey/half-assed workaround?


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## indica86 (24/3/16)

I stopped mash out - 15% rye causes a charred element cover that causes my urn to drop out, have not noticed any drop in gravity but I do a bucket drain sparge thing though.


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## RdeVjun (24/3/16)

Not necessarily buckerooni, specifics and context are everything- when talking about a sparge step in a bucket then in the MaxiBIAB context it is vital but in an urn context, perhaps not so, probably not in fact. But, if you just mean the mashout step then generally and on many accounts YMMV. It's important not to confound the two separate issues.
Nevertheless, the beauty of this caper is that you can try out this sort of variation for yourself and just see- 9 times out of 10 you still get beer, chances are it is bloody good beer at that!


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## tj2204 (24/3/16)

Just boiling up a no mashout BIAB now, should cut 30 mins off my brew day. If results are good I'll consider making the change permanently.

Edit: bloody autocorrect! A no mash BIAB would be a thing to behold


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## manticle (24/3/16)

This be jest, ja?

Or typo.


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## tj2204 (24/3/16)

Thanks for pointing that error out while I could still edit. No mash AG would revolutionise the homebrew world though.


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## manticle (24/3/16)

Happy I am that mashing remains essential.

Confused I was, yes.


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## tj2204 (25/3/16)

No mash out gave me a drop in efficiency, normally I'm at 70% and last night's batch was closer to 65%. Certainly the clearest wort I've had to the cube though. 

Still undecided if I'll mash out in future batches.


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## Ducatiboy stu (25/3/16)

A mashout wont effect efficiency. Once the grains have converted thats it.

Sparging will effect your efficiency


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## Goose (25/3/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> A mashout wont effect efficiency. Once the grains have converted thats it.
> 
> Sparging will effect your efficiency


to parrot Brad Smith:
"The main purpose of the mash-out is to halt conversion and to raise the temperature of the mash for a better lauter flow. "

one could argue that an inferior lauter flow if you do not mashout could mean a poorer lautering process and consequent deleterious effect on extraction ?


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## Ducatiboy stu (25/3/16)

Why would you want to stop conversion. At any rate, conversion would stop once you started the kettle boil

Adding more hot water aids lautering more than just a temp increase to " mash out "


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## Rocker1986 (26/3/16)

I always do a mash-out, not really sure why, just one of those habitual things I guess. Normally get around 75% efficiency.

Today I used acid malt in a grist (2%) for the first time and my efficiency jumped to 79% (would have been 82.3% if I got the full 25 litres I was aiming for). Linked, I wonder? Will experiment with it on more batches.


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## manticle (26/3/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Why would you want to stop conversion. At any rate, conversion would stop once you started the kettle boil
> 
> Adding more hot water aids lautering more than just a temp increase to " mash out "


Why would you want to stop conversion? To keep some longer chain dextrins in for body and mouthfeel.

Don't you 'sparge' with boiling water, raising the grain bed up to around 78?


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## technobabble66 (26/3/16)

^^ +1 this. 
I do a 3v kinda setup where I recirculate at mash out for 20mins then sparge. I can get all sorts of temp fluctuations, namely dropping below 70*c, and the last several liters may be down closer to 60*c. Ghetto system! 
But that's the reason I hit 78*c for a few mins: to denature any enzymes and halt conversion. I had beers accidentally ramp up to 70 for 10-15mins then finally get it down to, say 65*c. These always turn out a little thinner to my tastes. So in reflection of this, once I have my fermentables profile set (I generally do a 4 step mash), I don't want a drop in temp to then just negate the whole process. 

Apparently mash out helps with flushing out the sugars as well. I'm happy to go with this, though I'd be inclined to agree a sparge type step will do a lot more for this purpose. 
2c


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/3/16)

manticle said:


> Why would you want to stop conversion? To keep some longer chain dextrins in for body and mouthfeel.
> 
> Don't you 'sparge' with boiling water, raising the grain bed up to around 78?





manticle said:


> Why would you want to stop conversion? To keep some longer chain dextrins in for body and mouthfeel.
> 
> Don't you 'sparge' with boiling water, raising the grain bed up to around 78?


But this is not the " Mash out " in the classical sense, and it does not instantly raise the temp to 78*c

I have never had a mouthfeel or body issue.

Is it more perception because someone once said " You must mash out or your beer will turn to shit..."

Bit like re-hydrating yeats...they all say " You must ...yaydda..yadda...yadda....".....but do you REALLY need to....?

Yes I know your all going to shit can me as per usual, but **** it, I dont care


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## manticle (26/3/16)

Nothing will instantly raise it. The process is identical to mashing out by infusion.

No-one has claimed it's necessary (opposite in fact) but it does have a purpose that goes beyond 'I got told to'.

No-one is interested in shitting on you. I don't know what other forums you frequent but there'll be one or two others that are out there that will be obliging.

Yeast rehydration has **** all to do with the discussion.


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/3/16)

manticle said:


> Nothing will instantly raise it. The process is identical to mashing out by infusion.
> 
> No-one has claimed it's necessary (opposite in fact) but it does have a purpose that goes beyond 'I got told to'.
> 
> ...


Grab a snickers mants


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## manticle (26/3/16)

I even made a scat joke.
Also I hate snickers. Bacon and eggs for me once I mash in.


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/3/16)

manticle said:


> I don't know what other forums you frequent


You mean there are other Forums on the interwebs....well I never


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/3/16)

manticle said:


> I even made a scat joke.


I know what forums you frequent... :lol:


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## manticle (26/3/16)

Jazz?


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/3/16)

There are Jazz forums ?.....Man, just how big is the interweb...


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## Camo6 (26/3/16)

manticle said:


> Also I hate snickers.


Mods please lock this thread. This vile language has gone on long enough.


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/3/16)

manticle said:


> Bacon and eggs for me once I mash in.



Its OK..., Bacon & eggs was mentioned whilst brewing, The thread is safe


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## Camo6 (26/3/16)

Fair enough. Talking GOATSE is one thing but bagging Snickers will result in a 30 day ban. You have been warned.


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