# East Kent Goldings



## Dazza_devil (17/8/09)

G'day Brewers,
I've got a nice fresh 90g packet of East Kent Goldings pellets and need a good extract recipe for an Ale which will showcase the flavour and aroma of this hop. I have some Northern Brewer to bitter if needed but would prefer to go all EKG if I have enough to bitter a full brew. Also have around 30g Styrian Goldings left over.
Grains I have left - 
40g Carafa II
50g Choc
280g Carapils
105g Caraaroma
365g Caramunich II
220g Roast Barley
480g Black Malt
I'm ordering a 500g bag of Pale Crystal today so I could add another bag to the order if needed. I initially wanted an Irish Red but not sure if it's really a style that would showcase the hop, and I don't have any Carared. I've got a CB twin pack of SO4 and holding off on liquid yeasts at the moment. Something to drink while I watch the cricket in the summer after we bring the ashes home, perhaps an English Bitter.
Cheers.
Edit - still half asleep.


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## gibbocore (17/8/09)

looks as though a stout could be up your alley.


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## Dazza_devil (17/8/09)

I love my stouts, hence the abundance of dark grains, but would it really showcase the hop flavour or aroma? Is there a particular style of stout that does? 
I bottled an Extra Stout 3-4 weeks ago but wasn't planning on drinking it for at least 6 months. Is it true stouts take longer to mature in the bottle?
I also have a nice Baltic Porter, an Imperial IPA and an Ozzie Pale Ale recipe planned, so perhaps I should up my grain order.


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## marlow_coates (17/8/09)

Depending on the stout you have made, it is likely that it will improve over a couple of months. (A RIS can improve for years)

I find mine do, and often save some bottles for a year or more if able.

It may be that at 2 months it is drinking nicely, and at 6 has passed it's prime, so have a test taste every month, and when you are happy with it, it's time to tuck in  

Can't help much with your recipe sorry.

Marlow


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## buttersd70 (17/8/09)

A stout probably wouldn't show off the hops the way you want...
You could go with a golden bitter, something along the lines of 

23L
1042 OG
27IBU

3kg pale liquid (or 1.5kg liquid and 1.2kg ldme)
160g caramunich ii
80g carapils
23g EKG 15min
23g EKG f/o
ekg or norther brewer for 60min to 27-28 IBU total. (actual weight will depend on your AA, and your boil volume, obviously).
s04 @ 19-20C

If you wanted to , you could chuck in the 50g of choc, too.


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## Bribie G (17/8/09)

Seeing as liquid malt is so outrageously expensive nowadays if you are spending a heap on the other ingredients why not spend a few shillings more and upgrade to a nice liquid yeast like Ringwood (I did a Ringwood based stout that got a place in a comp) or London 3 (both from Wyeast)


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## cwbrown07 (17/8/09)

For what it is worth, I just put in the fermenter on the weekend the following:

2kg dry light malt (500g boiled for 60mins, remainder added after boil)
400g Pale Chocolate Malt
300g Crystal (medium)
300g Carared
10g Target (10%) for 60
10g East Kent Goldings (5.8%) for 15
10g East Kent Goldings (5.8%) @ flameout

used s-04 as no other yeast around - ferment at 19

Grains placed in 4l cold water and slowly brought up to about 65 degrees, left for 30mins and then 'rinsed' grain bag into pot with another litre of cold water (5l boil total)

Tasted quite nice out of the hydrometer - looking for a sweet stout style.


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## drsmurto (17/8/09)

buttersd70 said:


> A stout probably wouldn't show off the hops the way you want...
> You could go with a golden bitter, something along the lines of
> 
> 23L
> ...



I'd add the choc and carafa II for some extra flavour! 

And bump the IBUs up to 30 but thats all about personal preferences!


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## Dazza_devil (17/8/09)

buttersd70 said:


> A stout probably wouldn't show off the hops the way you want...
> You could go with a golden bitter, something along the lines of
> 
> 23L
> ...



Thanks Butters that sounds like a nice one,
Would you dry hop that with another 23g EKG?
I may have a little trouble attenuating that down to 1.010 or so, should I sub some LDME for dextrose?
Edit - attenuation afterthought


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## buttersd70 (17/8/09)

Dry hopping would be a preference thing...I'd leave it until it's time to decide, then see what kind of flavour/aroma you're getting from the sample. If you think it needs a push, then do so.

As far as attenuation....if the wort is well aerated, if the extract isn't stale, and yeast health is good, I don't see the need to add any dextrose to dry it out. I would expect that it should attenuate to probably 1010-1012 ish, which to me is where I would be wanting it.

As smurto said, you could add the choc and some of the carafa as well, if you're after a darker result...I would go 80g combined total, myself. 

Oh, and don't overcarbonate it. 1.6-1.8vol CO2 if kegging, maybe 2vol if bottling.

(oh, and I hope Chappo doesn't see this thread....he knows how much I hate EKG :lol: ).


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## Dazza_devil (17/8/09)

BribieG said:


> Seeing as liquid malt is so outrageously expensive nowadays if you are spending a heap on the other ingredients why not spend a few shillings more and upgrade to a nice liquid yeast like Ringwood (I did a Ringwood based stout that got a place in a comp) or London 3 (both from Wyeast)



I know mate, and I will. It's a door that I will be opening and I expect it to be into a huge arena. I have a lot more reading to do on the subject and really want to get my technique and knowledge up to scratch. I've just ordered the 'Brewing Classic Styles' book and noticed another title, 'First steps in Yeast Culture' by Pierre Rajotte. Bit exy but may be worth while.
Anyone read it?


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## drsmurto (17/8/09)

buttersd70 said:


> SNIP
> 
> (oh, and I hope Chappo doesn't see this thread....he knows how much I hate EKG :lol: ).



Not enough for you to refuse to drink a beer that you are told contains EKG tho  

:lol:


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## buttersd70 (17/8/09)

DrSmurto said:


> Not enough for you to refuse to drink a beer that you are told contains EKG tho
> 
> :lol:


I never refuse _any _beer...I just whinge the whole time, and say 'it would be better with fuggle....' over and over and over again. I swear that Nige changed his bitter from EKG to fuggle, not cos he thinks it will be better, but just to get me to shut the hell up. :lol:


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## muckey (17/8/09)

buttersd70 said:


> , but just to get me to shut the hell up. :lol:




talk about trying to achieve the impossible h34r:


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## chappo1970 (17/8/09)

buttersd70 said:


> (oh, and I hope Chappo doesn't see this thread....he knows how much I hate EKG :lol: ).



I see you, you two timing tart features! You must have been taking lesson from KRudd with that backflip half twist! Oh read the sig before you backflip again... that quote is no more than 2 weeks old.

:lol: 

Chap Chap

EDIT: Added more stirring! ^_^


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## drsmurto (17/8/09)

Chappo said:


> I see you, you two timing tart features! You must have been taking lesson from KRudd with that backflip half twist! Oh read the sig before you backflip again... that quote is no more than 2 weeks old.
> 
> :lol:
> 
> ...



Ah, but Chappo, the quote says _use_ EKG. Its says nothing about drinking beers that someone else brewed using EKG...

And Muckey - i seem to recall a few big IPAs shut him up. Or does he still talk when he has passed out?


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## Bribie G (17/8/09)

Butter's next brew:

*Modern Golden Adelaide Ale:*

4kg Maris Otter
1kg Polenta
300g Carared

750g White Sugar
500g tub Chinese Maltose Syrup

30g EKG 60 min
20g EKG 10 min

Yeast from under a Tooheys Can Lid

....................... BIAB and bottled in 2L PET primed with sugar cubes


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## buttersd70 (17/8/09)

Sorry, Boagsy, that my little idiosynchracies give so much amusement to other less mature forum members that they feel it necessary to derail your thread.... <_<


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## Power Wolf (17/8/09)

Chappo said:


> You must have been taking lesson from KRudd with that backflip half twist!



Good one Chappo, Very funny!!


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## Bribie G (17/8/09)

Sorry for the hijack, as it happens I also, personally, find EKG to be a bit of a 'nowhere' hop and although there is nothing wrong with it as such I find that some of the more recently bred UK hops such as Northdown and Euro hops such as Styrian Goldings (actually bred from a Fuggle thanks for the confusion  ) give far nicer depth and complexities to beers and are well worth exploring for future brews. EKG to my way of thinking is a bit analogous to base malts. It's a good base hop. And just as we can go on to use special malts to dress up the base malt then there's a big range of hops that complement and extend EKG when used in combination. 

For those who came in late we rib Butters mercilessly because we do wuv him


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## np1962 (17/8/09)

buttersd70 said:


> I never refuse _any _beer...I just whinge the whole time, and say 'it would be better with fuggle....' over and over and over again. I swear that Nige changed his bitter from EKG to fuggle, not cos he thinks it will be better, but just to get me to shut the hell up. :lol:


Bitter V3 with Fuggles, V4 with Styrian, I'm still learning and actually want to see what each brings to a standard recipe. Am quite happy with the EKG version.
Will bring over a couple bottles of mild later in the week....... NB and EKG.. 
And don't expect I will ever shut you up  
Cheers
Nige


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## Bribie G (17/8/09)

NigeP62 said:


> Bitter V3 with Fuggles, V4 with Styrian, I'm still learning and actually want to see what each brings to a standard recipe. Am quite happy with the EKG version.
> Will bring over a couple bottles of mild later in the week....... NB and EKG..
> And don't expect I will ever shut you up
> Cheers
> Nige



Hold him down and pour it down his throat  

I actually have B's address and next week I'll post him a bottle of my Yorkshire Golden Summer Ale (see his post re a Golden) which has 35g EKG as bittering and Styrians for finishing. Drink it and suffer.

To OP, tweaking EKG with something like Styrian is a marriage made in heaven :icon_drool2:


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## buttersd70 (17/8/09)

Whilst it went off topic, I think in a kind of wierd way it's come back full circle....bitters can be great for showcasing hops, even though they're predominanlty a malt driven beer. imo, unlike their american counterparts (which are just hop hop hop), they have a balance with the malt, and with the phenolics and/or esters, which, to me, adds to the enjoyment of the hop rather than detracting from it. I've said in the past that sometimes less is more.....

Particularly if it's a golden bitter (aka summer bitter), which tends to have more hop in the profile. The amount of late hopping in the range of 0.75 - 1g/L really lets the hop come through, with the malt and the esters accentuating it.

Other hops that benefit from this treatment are, as others have said, fuggle, styrian goldings, Northern Brewer (which is used predominantly for bittering, but imo is underated for it's rather subtle flavouring ability), and Bramling Cross (one of my current favourites). And the combinations are great....I use NB+styrian, NB+fuggle, fuggle + styrian, and yes, I have even used EKG (in moderation....to qualify, my only real gripe with EKG is more that many beers, from other brewers, I've tried with it have been too heavy handed, rather than a problem with the hop itself).


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## haysie (17/8/09)

BribieG said:


> EKG to my way of thinking is a bit analogous to base malts. It's a good base hop. And just as we can go on to use special malts to dress up the base malt then there's a big range of hops that complement and extend EKG when used in combination.




I didnt understand a word of this :unsure: and for sure didnt have a clue on _analogous_


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## Dazza_devil (17/8/09)

Thanks for all the input and added amusement  
The history behind EKG intrigues me as much as it's uses and I'm yet to explore it and it's flavour and aroma in depth. 
Some of my English ancestors were farmers from East Kent region, perhaps they grew them. As for my other English ancestors I wouldn't like to comment on there association with the hop.
Would it be fair to say that EKG is one of the oldest hop varieties to have been used in beer and perhaps my ancestors from the late 1800's would have drunk an English Ale with the same hop profile that the EKG's of today impart to the brew? 
I've just ordered some Challenger pellets to try as well but as for the EKG, I'm looking forward to being familiarised with it and complimenting it with other hops in the future.
I would have to say that the Northern Brewer pellets do have a nice aroma and I wouldn't hesitate to use them in that function along with flavour. Same would have to go for Target from my limited experience. Just recently I bottled a Best Bitter that was bittered with Northern Brewer and has flavour, aroma and dry hop additions of Styrians, it's shaping up very nicely indeed.


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## Maple (17/8/09)

Boagsy said:


> snip
> I would have to say that the Northern Brewer pellets do have a nice aroma and I wouldn't hesitate to use them in that function along with flavour. Same would have to go for Target from my limited experience. Just recently I bottled a Best Bitter that was bittered with Northern Brewer and has flavour, aroma and dry hop additions of Styrians, it's shaping up very nicely indeed.


Was that the German Northern Brewer, or the American version? I am quite partial to the USA variant, purely for that resiny/piney spicyness that the German variety doesn't have.


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## Dazza_devil (17/8/09)

Maple said:


> Was that the German Northern Brewer, or the American version? I am quite partial to the USA variant, purely for that resiny/piney spicyness that the German variety doesn't have.


It was the German, yet to sample the US version but it sounds very interesting.
I wonder how both varieties differ from the original English variant.


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## Bribie G (17/8/09)

haysie said:


> I didnt understand a word of this :unsure: and for sure didnt have a clue on _analogous_



Rewrite:

Base malts such as Maris Otter, Joe White Ale etc can result in a nice beer by themselves but are usually 'embellished' with special malts such as Crystal Malts . In the same way, East Kent Goldings is a basic hop that has been used for yonks and despite the fact that it is often used by itself, many brewers add other hops that work in nicely with the EKG to produce a more aromatic and flavourful beer compared to using EKG by itself. 

Analogous = similar, alike, like, comparable, akin.


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## haysie (17/8/09)

BribieG said:


> Rewrite:
> 
> Base malts such as Maris Otter, Joe White Ale etc can result in a nice beer by themselves but are usually 'embellished' with special malts such as Crystal Malts . In the same way, East Kent Goldings is a basic hop that has been used for yonks and despite the fact that it is often used by itself, many brewers add other hops that work in nicely with the EKG to produce a more aromatic and flavourful beer compared to using EKG by itself.
> 
> Analogous = similar, alike, like, comparable, akin.



Relax BribieG, analogulous is similar. Settled.
What I have noticed in all the replies, is English beers. EKG makes a great Belgian, pale ale and blonde. I grabbed a 3rd at Beerfest for an all the way EKG pale ale, as someone else posted earlier, its quite often used too extremes which doesnt do it justice. I bittered an Alt with the same hop recently and finished with some Spalt, very good beer. Great hop!


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## Bribie G (17/8/09)

Relaxed thanks to Kegerator :lol: 

Funny you should mention it, the BABBs September beer style is Belgian. I have never brewed a Belgian and have no experience here... last time I was in Belgium many decades ago I spent an evening in a bar in Brussels drinking Maes Pils which I expect is Flemish for Mouse Piss.

In my wasted youth I didn't know that Belgium is a country of great beers and on checking out some recipes, as you rightly say EKG features in the recipes. And this is no surprise as Belgium is about as far away from Kent as Sydney is from Goulburn and I imagine that there has long been a cross-channel trade in hops.


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## buttersd70 (17/8/09)

Boagsy said:


> The history behind EKG intrigues me as much as it's uses and I'm yet to explore it and it's flavour and aroma in depth.



I have a pdf which is based mainly around american hops, but talks about the parantage of the different hop varieties, and has a fairly lengthy section about EKG, and the various sub varieties, which is an interesting read....

damn. slightly too large to upload directly. Hang about, I'll up it to rapidshare and put up the link.
available here. 2.2mB.


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## manticle (17/8/09)

Isn't EKG your favourite hop butters?


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## Dazza_devil (17/8/09)

buttersd70 said:


> I have a pdf which is based mainly around american hops, but talks about the parantage of the different hop varieties, and has a fairly lengthy section about EKG, and the various sub varieties, which is an interesting read....
> 
> damn. slightly too large to upload directly. Hang about, I'll up it to rapidshare and put up the link.
> available here. 2.2mB.




Cheers Butters,
Very interesting. I haven't had time to read it all but, from the info, my ancestors being from Wye, East Ashford would have probably been familiar with the Bramling, Eastwell (used in the breeding process of Target) and Amos's Early Bird cultivars of Goldings and definitely Fuggles would of been around. I don't know anything of the area historically or geographically but genetically, who knows. 

This bit got me;
"Fuggle was so extensively grown​throughout the U.K. that by 1949 it​reached 78% of the total English crop. In​the 20​​​​th Century, it was grown in the​
U.S., Tasmania, Canada, Belgium,​Austria and Yugoslavia (now Slovenian​Republic). I mention Yugoslavia​because it is not called Fuggle there but​Styrian Golding. The reason for this​mishap in names is as follows: In the​1930s, the Yugoslavian hop industry​went down with a Verticillium Wilt​strain that affected their aroma hops​which were of German origin. They then​looked to the U.K. for new plant​material and thought that they had​chosen an English Golding, hence called​it Styrian (originally Steirer, after a hop​growing area on the Austrian/Yugoslavia​border) Golding."

Looks like Fuggles is next on the list.


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## Bribie G (17/8/09)

Go for the New Zealand Fuggles Flowers. Frggggnnn spectacular. :icon_drunk: 

Damn not currently available from CB, <_< get them to notify you when available.


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## buttersd70 (18/8/09)

BribieG said:


> Go for the New Zealand Fuggles Flowers. Frggggnnn spectacular. :icon_drunk:
> 
> Damn not currently available from CB, <_< get them to notify you when available.



I'm slightly wary about some of the NZ flowers...good hops in their own right, don't get me wrong...but just not the same for the most part. How does the nz fuggle compare flavour wise to UK?

The irony is....all I can get locally atm in the way of fuggle is the NZ. BB has tons of NZ fuggle, and no English fuggle.


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## Bribie G (18/8/09)

:icon_offtopic: I know what you mean about some of the NZ hops, either they are voted piss poor compared to their namesakes (I have seen posts re Cascade and Styrians in particular) or they are nothing like the overseas versions (BSaaz thankfully renamed to Motueka). However some of them are really nice, I'm plannning an all-Green Bullet and Single Malt "SteinAle" shortly. And Motueka is beeoootiful if used cautiously, It's one of my favourite hops. Going back to the Fuggles I love the fact that they come in flowers and I have found them to be a really good sub for UK Fuggles. Probably ideal climate there like Herefordshire on a good Summer's day with the hop picking wenches travelled out from Birmingham for the fortnight, their golden tresses and rosy cheeks. ......

I'm outta here. :icon_cheers:


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## drsmurto (18/8/09)

BribieG said:


> :icon_offtopic: I know what you mean about some of the NZ hops, either they are voted piss poor compared to their namesakes (I have seen posts re Cascade and Styrians in particular) or they are nothing like the overseas versions (BSaaz thankfully renamed to Motueka). However some of them are really nice, I'm plannning an all-Green Bullet and Single Malt "SteinAle" shortly. And Motueka is beeoootiful if used cautiously, It's one of my favourite hops. Going back to the Fuggles I love the fact that they come in flowers and I have found them to be a really good sub for UK Fuggles. Probably ideal climate there like Herefordshire on a good Summer's day with the hop picking wenches travelled out from Birmingham for the fortnight, their golden tresses and rosy cheeks. ......
> 
> I'm outta here. :icon_cheers:



:icon_offtopic: 

The Adelaide Mash Brewers had a SMaSH challenge earlier in the year. Green Bullet and Pils malt. Some of us roasted varying quantities of the pils malt so the beers ranged from lagers thru pale ales, big IPAs and dark ales. Very nice hop IMO. 

We are currently undertaking a single hop challenge where everyone involved picks a different hop. Grist is fixed (simple pale ale) as is the yeast and the flavour/aroma additions. This way we get to learn a bit about hops that we may not have tried (or want to try). 

Back to EKG, i use it a lot, a few times as the only hop but more often i blend it with fuggles/styrians.


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