# Merri Mashers IPA Comp 2017 Awards and Prizes



## Cerevisius (15/2/17)

We can now announce some of the amazing prizes up for grabs at this years *Merri Mashers IPA Comp* to be judged at The Terminus Hotel North Fitzroy on the *19th of March, 2017*.

Details of the comp can be found on this post including drop points and entry requirements.

All entries must be submitted online via Compmaster by *1pm *on* Saturday, 11th of March 2017.*

We have confirmed the following major sponsors:

*Clifton Hill BrewPub* are sponsors of the _CHBP's Choice Award. _Head Brewer Ben Simmons will select a winning beer to be brewed on his equipment at Clifton Hill.

*Home Make It* are sponsors of the _HMI's Choice Award_. The selected beer will be brewed on the flash new brewhouse at *Craft & Co*, Collingwood.

*Hawkers Beer* are this year's sponsor for _Champion Brewer. _The brewer amassing the most points across the competition will receive a Hawkers slab plus a 4 pack of special limited release beers (brand spanking new) and an option to spend a few hours with co-founder and chief spokesman Mazen Hajar talking business as part of a day at the brewery, in Reservoir.


*Grain & Grape* are again sponsoring the _Best Novice Prize_. The most successful brewer who has not previously placed at a BJCP-sanctioned event will receive a $250 voucher to be spent at Grain & Grape, Yarraville.

Category Prizes:

Category winners will all receive specially engraved IPA glassware.

In addition to providing the venue for judging the comp, *The Terminus Hotel North Fitzroy* are also sponsoring the _Black IPA __Specialty Category Prize_, offering a $100 bar tab.

Our friends (and erstwhile Merri Mashers committee members) at *Old Wives Ales* are sponsoring the _Rye IPA __Specialty Category __Prize_ to the tune of $100 value.

Our mates at *Co-conspirators Brewing Co* are sponsoring the _American IPA Category Prize_, again to the value of $100.

The excellent *Exit Brewing* are sponsoring the _Double IPA Category Prize_, and you guessed it, worth $100.

We are still waiting to hear back from some folks to confirm the remaining category and other prize sponsors, and you'll see it here first.

In the meantime, have a look at the Merri Mashers Official Webpage.


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## Cerevisius (17/2/17)

BeerCo are generously sponsoring Club of Show, offering the following incredible loot to the club accumulating the greatest points across the comp:

25Kg of Gladfield Malt split across 3 x 5Kg bags of Base Malt & 10 x 1Kg bags of Specialty Malt – RRP value of $100.35
5 x 100g of Hops – selection of NZ AU US & EU Hops – RRP value of $49.75
3 x GigaYeast Gold Pitches – selection – RRP - $44.85
$50 voucher for www.beerco.com.au
and a selection of Gladfield Malt & GigaYeast merch – shirts, caps, openers etc est. Prize value of $100+

www.beerco.com.au


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## moonhead (3/3/17)

We have now got confirmation of the rest of the sponsors for our category prizes.

A very big thanks and call out to *Cryer Malt*, who has provided prizes for 3 categories here!

White IPA - ~$115 worth of malts from *Cryer Malt*

Belgian IPA - $100 value sponsored by *Moondog*

Red IPA - ~$115 worth of malts from *Cryer Malt*

English IPA - $100 Bar tab at *Tallboy & Moose*

Brown IPA - ~$115 worth of malts from *Cryer Malt*

Specialty IPA - An exclusive case of Juicy IPA from *3 Ravens*

Our website has now been updated with all these details - 

http://merrimashers.org/ipa-comp-2017

Looking forward to seeing some awesome brews!


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## sharpcliff (8/3/17)

White IPA is now being sponsored by Clever Brewing with a $100 gift voucher on the line! Cheers Clever Brewing!

This also means that Cryer's awesome prize is only being split 2 ways, making the prize for Brown and Red IPA worth $175!!

Get your beers entered into compmaster before Saturday March 11 @ 1pm! There's lots of great prizes to be had!!

Check out our website for more details.

http://merrimashers.org/ipa-comp-2017


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## Cerevisius (19/3/17)

Please note Carwyn Cellars are confimed sponsors for the award for Champion Beer (Best of Show) with a Grand Prize of $250 to be spent over the bar or in their bottle shop in Thornbury.


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## Yob (19/3/17)

Glassware for other place getters?


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## Cerevisius (19/3/17)

Yob said:


> Glassware for other place getters?


Sorry Yob, there ain't no second prize!


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## Yob (20/3/17)

Nothing for second and third?

WTF?


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## wide eyed and legless (20/3/17)

I was disappointed too, called in there, thought the place would be humming with homebrewers, guy with a beard came in carrying a Guinness bag, turned out he was the musical gig for the arvo, ended up going to the Barley Crushers and Grinders tasting session.


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## NealK (20/3/17)

Yob said:


> Nothing for second and third?
> 
> WTF?


That is a bit disappointing.


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## Yob (20/3/17)

NealK said:


> That is a bit disappointing.


Utterly, every other comp provides place getters a trophy.

Unless this changes, I personally won't enter again.


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## 1974Alby (20/3/17)

With the amount of work involved in organising and running a competition (judges, stewards, venue, logistics, catering, timing, promotion/advertising, entry collection and storage etc etc), I think these guys have done a great job in obtaining significant sponsorship for their competition. Perhaps the booty could have been spread out a little to accommodate place getters, but I would hate to think comps are only entered based on the opportunity to win trophies.

Some form of recognition for a well brewed beer is always nice, but surely trophies is not the prime motivation for entering comps?..Although I rarely enter comps, when I do I appreciate the independent feedback and process improvement suggestions. 

It also needs to be recognised that these events are major fundraisers for clubs run by volunteers...(often the same volunteers year in/out). Whilst it would be great if they were sponsored by a benevolent trophy supplier, the reality is that securing any form of sponsorship involves a fair bit of unpaid work or that trophies etc are purchased. This is a significant cost and impacts on the fundraising success of the event. If these events don't raise a lot of money, they are probably not worth doing when you factor in the many hours of free labour required to make them happen!


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## Wolfman (20/3/17)

Yob said:


> Utterly, every other comp provides place getters a trophy.
> 
> Unless this changes, I personally won't enter again.


Great feedback Yob.

I suppose the Mashers can expect the Hop dealz Australia will sponsor the trophies for next year.


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## NealK (20/3/17)

Prizes for place getters do not need to cost a lot of money. I have a certificate from the Worthogs Pale Ale Mania that is on display with my other glasses and trophies. I think a nice bottle of saison came with it. The saison is long gone but the certificate remains as a reminder of my achievement. I think that giving out $175 worth of malt for first and an engraved IPA glass and having nothing for second or third is a bitter pill to swallow for second and third places. I enter competitions for the feedback and to support the other home brew clubs. If all the brew clubs started to put profit before rewards for efforts of those that enter a beer then the future of competitions is surely fucked. 
I understand the effort that goes in to organising and running a competition and would like to say a big thank you to everyone involved. While those of us that do volunteer to help when we can (unfortunately yesterday was Westgate's club meeting so our club were unable to help) I do it to support the organising club and all the home brewers that have entered the competition. If this turns out to benefit the club at the expense of the brewers then I think people from other clubs may think twice about helping. We all need to support each other, we are a community that has a great history of supporting each other but if profit before people is the way things are going then we risk losing this.


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## GrumpyPaul (20/3/17)

Not wanting to stir the pot but...

300 odd entries at $8 each is $2400

I dont know what trophie cost these days - but assuming 15ish trophies at $10 each is only a small chunk of change out to the takings.

Lucky for me i brew mediocre beer that doesnt ever place...i dont feel so hard done my as a result


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## Yob (20/3/17)

Wolfman said:


> Great feedback Yob.
> 
> I suppose the Mashers can expect the Hop dealz Australia will sponsor the trophies for next year.


I thought thats what part of the entry fee went towards.. certainly is in other comps Im involved with..

To me, it makes no sense to have a second and third if you arent awarding something for it, why not just call out first and be done with it if thats the way you guys are taking it..

and state it clearly so all entrants know, it seems as though my assumptions have the better of me on this one, would I have entered if it clearly said first place getters only will get anything for their entries? Probably, would I have my nose out of joint at this point, certainly not.

anyway, thanks for running it again and I look forward to reading my feedback when it's uploaded.


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## Wolfman (20/3/17)

NealK said:


> Prizes for place getters do not need to cost a lot of money. I have a certificate from the Worthogs Pale Ale Mania that is on display with my other glasses and trophies. I think a nice bottle of saison came with it. The saison is long gone but the certificate remains as a reminder of my achievement. I think that giving out $175 worth of malt for first and an engraved IPA glass and having nothing for second or third is a bitter pill to swallow for second and third places. I enter competitions for the feedback and to support the other home brew clubs. If all the brew clubs started to put profit before rewards for efforts of those that enter a beer then the future of competitions is surely fucked.
> I understand the effort that goes in to organising and running a competition and would like to say a big thank you to everyone involved. While those of us that do volunteer to help when we can (unfortunately yesterday was Westgate's club meeting so our club were unable to help) I do it to support the organising club and all the home brewers that have entered the competition. If this turns out to benefit the club at the expense of the brewers then I think people from other clubs may think twice about helping. We all need to support each other, we are a community that has a great history of supporting each other but if profit before people is the way things are going then we risk losing this.


Thanks for the great feedback mate. All points noted.

Just for the record we do this comp for the community not the profit, which none was made.



GrumpyPaul said:


> Not wanting to stir the pot but...
> 
> 300 odd entries at $8 each is $2400
> 
> ...


300 entries? The amount of entries was no where near that amount, for the record it was 77. Not a $ was made from the event.


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## mtb (20/3/17)

Wolfman said:


> 300 entries? The amount of entries was no where near that amount, for the record it was 77. Not a $ was made from the event.


I think the 300 figure was obtained from Cerevisius in the Results thread,



Cerevisius said:


> This is no small task with something like 300 scoresheets to be entered into the spreadsheet manually and each then scanned and uploaded.


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## mugley (20/3/17)

mtb said:


> I think the 300 figure was obtained from Cerevisius in the Results thread,


300 scoresheets. 4 scoresheets per entry. Works out to about $600 - reckon most of this would've gone on feeding the judges.


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## Wolfman (20/3/17)

Yob said:


> I thought thats what part of the entry fee went towards.. certainly is in other comps Im involved with..
> 
> To me, it makes no sense to have a second and third if you arent awarding something for it, why not just call out first and be done with it if thats the way you guys are taking it..
> 
> ...


With only 77 entries and stewards and judges to feed for their time makes sharing the limited money very thin. I hope you understand.

It is hard to know at the time of setting up the event that the numbers would be down. I'm in discussion with the committee re something for the place getters. With the budget already blown it will be a cost to the club. 

BTW big congrats to you on the second place.


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## Yob (20/3/17)

all good mate, I'll print out my image above and stick it to the wall in the shed brewery


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## mtb (20/3/17)

mugley said:


> 300 scoresheets. 4 scoresheets per entry. Works out to about $600 - reckon most of this would've gone on feeding the judges.



Yep I know, was pointing it out for Grumpy as he appeared under the impression that there were 300 entries.
I'm happy just paying a tenner to have my beer judged, personally. Not expecting to actually get a place in this comp, I entered solely for the feedback.


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## dave.wilton (20/3/17)

The problem with giving out prizes for second and third place is that it dilutes the main prize. Most sponsors give a $100 value prize which we are very grateful for (there was the one Bintani who gave a lot more malt and we split). $100 split between three people is really diluting the prize in my view (as an organiser of this comp). So we opt for one big prize per flight. Certificates is just more organisation for us and cost, printing them and posting them to winners. If people really want it we will have to look into it next year. Shoot for first! Then you will be in the chance to win a pro brew of your beer (not many clubs offer that!)

Glassware for 2nd and third becomes a big problem because each glass is a 'run' with it's own Artwork (to say the place). Glasses for 1st place totalled out at $200 for one 48 glass run, which gives us enough for three more years worth of glasses - hence not having the year on the glass. This was the minimum run size. If we'd printed 2nd and third place glasses that would have been $600, admittedly for 4 years worth but at a big upfront cost to the club. Perhaps next year we can run off second place glasses, the year after 3rd place. I don't know, but to do it upfront $600 was nearly as much as we take for the competition... $631. We used to engrave glasses so they could be personalised, but this worked out at $26 per glass. If anyone has any sources for glassware and custom printing let us know.

So after glasses we are down $200 to $431 off takings. We supplied lunch for judges and stewards at $15 per head (a very good discount obtained by our friends the Terminus). This I don't have the receipt to hand but we had 25 judges ($375) stewards (10 I believe $150) and you see we are already *in the red*. Add to that the various misc items and we are seriously in the red, we have never made a $ off this comp. 


There were plenty of people at the Termi, although obviously most were upstairs judging. We started lunch at 2 so there would have been people downstairs having lunch around that time. Many of the flights would have finished too. We have tried to have a gathering downstairs in the past but it's never really worked out. Everyone is always welcome upstairs to hear the results BUT we never know when that is going to be. And we were a lot later this year.

Organising a comp is a huge undertaking and there are many people who work very hard to make it happen. So whilst feedback for next year is always welcome please go easy on us! It's only our third year doing this and it's a lot of work for many people who have real jobs too!

Let's remember there would be no prizes at all if it wasn't for all our generous sponsors and you would be entering for nothing but the feedback and your name on the website! So cheers for to the sponsors!


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## GrumpyPaul (20/3/17)

GrumpyPaul said:


> Not wanting to stir the pot but...


Ok I admit....I was trying to stir the pot.

pot stirred I would say - ignore me an carry on.

In all seriousness - Thanks to all the organisers. It is a big undertaking to run the comp and the effort is appreciated. I generally enter to the feedback anyway, so looking forward to seeing it soon.

As a bit of serious feedback tot he MM team - can I suggest one thread for the whole comp instead of one for every aspect of the comp.

_I find it very hard to keep track of which threads Im trolling_


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## dave.wilton (20/3/17)

GrumpyPaul said:


> Ok I admit....I was trying to stir the pot.
> 
> pot stirred I would say - ignore me an carry on.
> 
> ...


Haha redeemed yourself by making me laugh. Yeah agree on the posts. I'm not frequent here but I'm sure we can keep it to one thread, makes sense to me. 

The full results tables are up now and we hope very soon to have the sheets up. You can take a look where you placed under Past Competitions in compmaster.

David


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## Cerevisius (20/3/17)

Yob said:


> Glassware for other place getters?





Yob said:


> Nothing for second and third?
> 
> WTF?





Yob said:


> Utterly, every other comp provides place getters a trophy.
> 
> Unless this changes, I personally won't enter again.





GrumpyPaul said:


> Not wanting to stir the pot but...
> 
> 300 odd entries at $8 each is $2400
> 
> ...


Unbunch those panties, friends.

There were 300 _scoresheets_ not entries. Each judge fills in one scoresheet. Most panels had four judges. Ergo, around 300 scoresheets for the 77 or so entries. Sheesh, these maths are not that hard. We _wish _we got 300 entries.

Entry fees go toward feeding the judges and stewards as well as subsidising glassware for category winners. We are not funding our overseas holidays here, folks. If we handed out a trophy for every place-getter across 10 categories (that would be 30 trophies, by the way) we would need to be charging entrants a lot more. The $10 fee has been set as the standard for 2017 by the VicBrew Committee to better reflect the costs of setting up and running comps, but remains low relative to many other similar competitions.

The overall top three beers in our comp were awarded with significant prizes. The overall best brewer, the best novice and club of show all get major prizes. And each category winner gets a trophy and a neato prize too. But prizes are not really what's at stake entering a beer into our comp.

These comps are for brewers seeking frank feedback from experienced judges. The prizes on offer reflect the great relationship ours and other clubs have with local homebrew shops, breweries and bars and the kind of support the industry is willing to provide the homebrewing community.

The idea that "every other comp" offers trophies for every place-getter is simply not borne out by reality. Every other comp struggles, to some degree, to get the entries to break even, as have we. Our comp has not awarded prizes or certificates for category 2nd or 3rd in the three years it's been running.

If you feel you need recognition for a place-getting beer, try brewing a better beer. Some of the place-getting beers were not stand-outs but demonstrated the low number of entries in some categories. Nonetheless, some were excellent and results for 1st, 2nd and 3rd were published to provide recognition for a job well done. I'm not sure where you would display your certificate for getting a category second or third, though. 2nd or 3rd in the comp overall, maybe...

Rant over, except to say that constructive feedback is always welcome. Ours is a new club with much to learn about efficiently running a succesful comp.


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## GrumpyPaul (20/3/17)

GrumpyPaul said:


> Lucky for me i brew mediocre beer that doesnt ever place...i dont feel so hard done my as a result





dave.wilton said:


> The full results tables are up now.....



BAHAAHA....the jokes on me.

Seems I was talking my self up.

Ive seen my score - I dont brew mediocre beer. I brew really shit beer.


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## GrumpyPaul (20/3/17)

GrumpyPaul said:


> Ok I admit....I was trying to stir the pot.
> 
> pot stirred I would say - ignore me an carry on.
> 
> ...





Cerevisius said:


> Unbunch those panties, friends.


I was taking the piss.....

My panties are so unbunched I'm virtually freeballing.

I think there's a bit of pot calling the panties black going on here...

Unbunch your own fella.

You've had a hard weekend - time to relax.

Once again - thanks for organising the comp, it truly is appreicated.

_Roolly trooly_


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## mtb (20/3/17)

I'd say a bit of panty-bunching is allowable for Cerevisius & Co as there was a direct implication earlier in the thread that they had run this comp for profit. It's been clarified now that the comp was run with very thin margins, but I feel they shouldn't have had to explain themselves in the first place.


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## GrumpyPaul (20/3/17)

mtb said:


> I'd say a bit of panty-bunching is allowable for Cerevisius & Co as there was a direct implication earlier in the thread that they had run this comp for profit. It's been clarified now that the comp was run with very thin margins, but I feel they shouldn't have had to explain themselves in the first place.


No there was a direct implication that not only do I brew crap beer - I do crap mathematics. Silly old me didnt make the connection that there was multiple feedback forms to be scanned for each entry.

Once again - organisers of comps do a great job.

_please dont try to justify someone elses implied right to bunch panties - it only serves to feed the troll_


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## mtb (20/3/17)

All good, mistakes happen. Trolling is a very different story though; it's intentional aggravation and prompts good people like Cerevisius / dave.wilton to have to spend valuable & unpaid time justifying themselves & defending their competition, as they've done in this thread.

If you make a mistake, it's not trolling and you shouldn't call it such, because trolls are pieces of shit who deserve little more than a punch in the throat.


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## Spiesy (20/3/17)

Yob said:


> Utterly, every other comp provides place getters a trophy.
> 
> Unless this changes, I personally won't enter again.


I got a certificate, not a trophy, for Pale Ale Mania last year.

I was just happy to get a place, tbh.

EDIT: I also got some sweet prizes; but not a trophy, per se.


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## SergeMarx (20/3/17)

I reckon a certificate would be a nice gesture - if the unlikely day ever comes I get a second or third, something to stick up in the brewery would be nice.


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## Yob (20/3/17)

I got a ribbon for first place in Grafton, like the primary school athletics ones.. You know, blue red green.. Old house mate even got one for a dance comp..

I should revise that statement above to read

Every other comp I've entered and actually managed a place has offered a prise for first, second and third, not every one has been a glass or a trophy but there has been something to pin to the wall or sit on a shelf, 

We spend our whole lives seeing medals for place getters and while I'm happy to let go and let this die, I stand by my comments that place getters should receive some form of physical acknowledgement of their effort. 

Peace yo


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## GrumpyPaul (20/3/17)

I would like to recommend an encourage award for last place getters.....especially in the Red IPA category


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## MartinOC (20/3/17)

Hey Guys,

I totally get everyone's comments here.

As a Vicbrew stalwart over the past God-only-knows how many years (Entrant/Steward/Judge/Chief Steward/Committee member/Imbiber of entries  ), I know how difficult it is to get a lot of this stuff together for a competition & how much it costs.

Club-based comps will often result in a very small profit, or a very small loss (if done correctly). It's a fine balancing-act.

Notwithstanding the feedback gained, there's something REALLY special in receiving an award/place/trophy (even if it's just a piece of laminated paper) that you can hold in your hand or put on a wall. We blokes are a competitive lot, so having something tangible that gives bragging-rights & acknowledges your efforts is significant to us. It doesn't have to be substantial, just something...

To the MM organising committee, could I suggest that in future, you ask for sponsorship in $'s rather than grain/hops etc. (which is going to cost your sponsors bugger-all & is a tax write-off for them) & put some of it towards trophies. You'll then be able to better balance the books & have something to "book" for next year. Vicbrew went through this in the first few years & we learned the lesson quickly.

LOVE the major prizes of having your beer brewed on Pro. equipment (WOW!!! Kudos exemplified!), but even the place-getters want/need some acknowledgement. Channelling everything into "only" a recognised FIRST prize does nothing to encourage improvement in the quality of the beer you're making (ie. "I got a 3rd place last year year & this year I got a 2nd. At least I placed & I got better, but I'm going to strive to make my beer even better next time"). 



GrumpyPaul said:


> I would like to recommend an encourage award for last place getters.....especially in the Red IPA category


Vicbrew has considered/discussed a "wooden-spoon" award for stone-motherless last as an encouragement, but haven't actually decided on anything. Maybe this year will be your lucky year, Paul... h34r:


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## moonhead (20/3/17)

MartinOC said:


> To the MM organising committee, could I suggest that in future, you ask for sponsorship in $'s rather than grain/hops etc. (which is going to cost your sponsors bugger-all & is a tax write-off for them) & put some of it towards trophies. You'll then be able to better balance the books & have something to "book" for next year. Vicbrew went through this in the first few years & we learned the lesson quickly.


Yeah, we certainly tried for that, unfortunately it didn't get over the line this year. Lots of interest from sponsors, but very little seemed keen to just give us a cheque. But, hey, there's always next year to give another go!


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## SergeMarx (20/3/17)

regardless, i reckon the judges got my score about right, I'm happy. looking forward to the score sheets being posted.

As one of the guys who kinda runs the Macedon Ranges Brew Club, we're keen to learn from any competition that runs as we're thinking of running our own in a year or so. Appreciate the effort that goes into making it happen. Well done. 

(and I doubt Paul would want a 2nd place certificate this year... *cough*)


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## MartinOC (20/3/17)

Sponsorship options are strictly:

$x

$xx

$xxx

If they offer product instead, politely decline.

Love the idea of BOS being offered the Pro-brew, but it doesn't help your club fund the next comp....


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## GrumpyPaul (20/3/17)

Did I mention my Red IPA may have been incorrectly categorised....it was actually entered as an English IPA


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## zeggie (20/3/17)

Lay off the organisers, judges, stewards, anyone who actually gave up their own valuable time to provide the comp for you. As some in this thread would know, it takes serious manpower to get comps like this over the line. There were very experienced judges present, there were epic prizes for the best beers. Well done gents.

How about put your hand up and volunteer next year? Offer to print up certificates (if that seriously is so important), offer to steward. Many hands make light work. Ask not what your comp can do for you, ask what you can do for your comp.


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## NealK (20/3/17)

Offer to print up certificates (if that seriously is so important),

Sorry but I think that is a bit harsh.


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## MartinOC (20/3/17)

That's very Khalil Gibran of you, but I'll second the sentiments.


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## zeggie (20/3/17)

NealK said:


> Offer to print up certificates (if that seriously is so important),
> 
> Sorry but I think that is a bit harsh.


Sorry but I think the fact half the posts in this thread are giving grief to the organisers is a bit harsh.


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## fcmcg (20/3/17)

zeggie said:


> Sorry but I think the fact half the posts in this thread are giving grief to the organisers is a bit harsh.





zeggie said:


> Sorry but I think the fact half the posts in this thread are giving grief to the organisers is a bit harsh.


I don't post in AHB much , anymore.
Yes I agree that the running of a competition is serious hard work.
I will say that there are three other brew clubs that have years of experience in running competitions and from my perspective, these clubs have always offered some sort of award for first , second and third. We do it to encourage people to brew.
I get that the Merri Mashers have only been around for three years but there is some standard that entrants expect.Perhaps it was a oversight to try something different without more publicity ,about what the prizes were ? Community expectations can often outweigh the reality . 
I will say given the ruckus this has caused a bit sad. From everyone's view. The Merri Mashers point of view and you the the brew communities point of view .
Some of the comments were not cool. From both sides . There are a lot of female brewers now and telling people to "unbunch their panties" is also not cool thing. 
I have no doubt that next year , Merri Mashers will put on a cracker of a competition.
And please , give them a chance next year, brew a beer and enter...I know I will .


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## Yob (21/3/17)

Score sheets were well filled our which is quite refreshing, often they aren't but these had a goodly amount of detail.


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## GrumpyPaul (21/3/17)

I was going to leave this thread alone...but this comment is confusing me.



fergthebrewer said:


> Some of the comments were not cool. From both sides . There are a lot of female brewers now and telling people to "unbunch their panties" is also not cool thing.


Can someone clarify for me....

Is the saying "unbunch your panties" really offensive to anyone? 

I was always of the impression it was just a modern take on a saying my old Gran used to say - "Dont get your knickers in a twist".

I never knew my old Gran was so sexist and derogative...

Its kind of ironic we enter comps for the feedback - but the issue of feedback for the comps can be such a sensitive issue.


There has been some valid feedback - which the organiser have acknoweldged.
There have been some misunderstandings (eg how many entries and the money taken) - which the organisers clarifed and the misunderstandees (me) acknowledge.
I know for my part the comments were made in a light hearted, tongue in cheek fashion - as most of my contrtibutions to this forum are.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...

Thanks for organising the comp - the effort put in is greatly aprreciated.

Now I think we should all lighten up...

_Disclaimer: For the purposes of this post the phrase "lighten up" is made in reference to lightening the mood. It is in no way intended to be derogatroy or offensive. No inference is intended to skin tone or race. I apoloigise up front for any unintend offence the may be caused to black people on this forum._


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## GalBrew (21/3/17)

Wow people who didn't volunteer to help out for a comp whinging about how said comp is run. Never seen that before.......


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## mtb (21/3/17)

Very happy with the feedback sheets - just what I was hoping for when entering my mediocre AIPA :lol:


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## fcmcg (21/3/17)

GrumpyPaul said:


> Can someone clarify for me....
> 
> Is the saying "unbunch your panties" really offensive to anyone?


Well , my girlfriend , who is a member of Westgate and this forum , thought it ordinary.


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## Yob (21/3/17)

I can testify that terms like, don't be a big skirt etc. Don't generally go down well these days.. 

I don't necessarily agree, but peoples perceptions are what they are, world gone mad? Possibly, reluctantly I can see the point.. Very ******* reluctantly.. Even so, I've had to temper the phrases I would, in years past, hand out at whim.

If ypu had of said jocks, the fairer, equally as competent yet not as physically as strong (in most cases) crowd would not have a reason to shout at me.. I mean you..

I personally find it a tough line to tread, I often throw such comments about because I'm yob, I see it as an Ozzi thing to poke shit, apparently it is also seen as degrading to a whole gender... Was an actual shock to me to discover that and while I see the point.. 

Lighten the **** up, I know neither I nor you perceive it as a gender slander and the world has gone a little fucked up in these ways.

There is a difference in a throw away line and a belief.

Well OT.. Sorry


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## zeggie (21/3/17)

fergthebrewer said:


> Perhaps it was a oversight to try something different without more publicity ,about what the prizes were ? Community expectations can often outweigh the reality .
> I will say given the ruckus this has caused a bit sad.


Agreed. Maybe a simple certificate could fix things for those who want bragging rights in future? 

HOWEVER, there's feedback, which is more than acceptable and I'm sure Mashers would appreciate and take on board, and then there are the insults/demands/bad maths posted in this thread that are not acceptable.




GrumpyPaul said:


> Long rant





Yob said:


> Short novel


Could you two please take your debate on whether people are allowed to be offended by your "aussie speak you've always done and no one used to be offended back in the good old days" and find another thread to debate it in? I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one to appreciate it if you did. Cheers.


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## timmi9191 (21/3/17)

GrumpyPaul said:


> I was going to leave this thread alone...but this comment is confusing me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Yob (21/3/17)

zeggie said:


> Agreed. Maybe a simple certificate could fix things for those who want bragging rights in future?
> 
> HOWEVER, there's feedback, which is more than acceptable and I'm sure Mashers would appreciate and take on board, and then there are the insults/demands/bad maths posted in this thread that are not acceptable.
> 
> ...


Politely.. For now.. No.

It has relevance to the evolution of this thread and while I agree it's OT. 

Can't really say you've been overly constructive in it anyway.. 

You seem to want to assert your opinion over others as far as I can see and if you think I'm not entitled to voice my opinion on the topic at hand, i have a number of choice words for you.

I'm just gunna put this down too, I was one of the first one's with my hand up to help the mashers put this comp together and help train them in how to run it in the first year, As was a whole bunch of other folks, so if you are just gunna sling mud, you best be making sure of just who you're ******* slinging it at.

And I think it was "big girls blowse"I actually got in the shot for... FFS


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## wide eyed and legless (21/3/17)

zeggie said:


> Could you two please take your debate on whether people are allowed to be offended by your "aussie speak you've always done and no one used to be offended back in the good old days" and find another thread to debate it in? I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one to appreciate it if you did. Cheers.


What a short memory you have zeggie, only last month you had a post removed for being offensive.


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## Droopy Brew (21/3/17)

Yob said:


> ..
> 
> Lighten the **** up,


Sound advice that is applicable to several posts on this thread.


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## manticle (21/3/17)

There is a moderator lurking in the wings hoping he doesn't need to do more than let this latest fizzle out and allow the topic discussion to return to its original intent.

I like to use a light, delicate hand. Restraint. That's what it's all about.


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## zeggie (21/3/17)

Yob said:


> You seem to want to assert your opinion over others as far as I can see and if you think I'm not entitled to voice my opinion on the topic at hand, i have a number of choice words for you.


Ah classic strawman argument. Where did I say you're not entitled to an opinion?

Which part of any of my posts did you not agree with?
The Mashers put in a lot of hard work?
Lay off the organisers in the thread?
Offer to volunteer?
Take your debate to a new thread and not clog up this one?



wide eyed and legless said:


> What a short memory you have zeggie, only last month you had a post removed for being offensive.


I'm curious to know what post that is, considering I was away with no internet access for most of Feb?


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## Yob (21/3/17)

Z-man, all I got is this..

thanks again to MM and you better believe Im going to enter next year..

ffs, I dont want to win hops though..


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## zeggie (21/3/17)

Yob said:


> Z-man, all I got is this..
> 
> thanks again to MM and you better believe Im going to enter next year..
> 
> ffs, I dont want to win hops though..


No worries. We'll hit you up to sponsor a category next year ($150 in hops? An IPA comp is perfect to sponsor!)


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## C-MOR (21/3/17)

GrumpyPaul said:


> I would like to recommend an encourage award for last place getters.....especially in the Red IPA category


Don't forget Double IPA category.

I would also like to introduce the notion of CHUMPion Beer, the beer judged as least best across all categories. Congratulations to Paul Chapman of MRBC on your second place getting EIPA. You will receive a personalised (in black shapie) wooden spoon at the next MRBC meeting.

Commiserations GrumpyPaul who narrowly missed out. 

With a little more honing you guys will reach the whole grail... a 50 point beer.


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## technobabble66 (21/3/17)

FWIW, i also ran the "unbunch your panties" comment past my wife just to check/confirm my thoughts on it.
It is questionable as it specifically references panties, so specifically girl's underwear, inferring you're being a girl, inferring it's negative to be a girl. Hence, it's objectionable to girls/women who pause to give a shit about some random guy's comment, because it's basically implying being a girl is a negative thing.
Yes, it's a common phrase from years ago. I've used it hundreds of times, and other similar phrases. FWIW, i went through a learning curve during my 20's (& probably 30's tbh as well) to put my comments through a more refined filter. The filter is: "is what i'm saying basically implying simply being female or gay or a certain race/religion is a negative thing." If so, then i'm basically being a ****. I choose to go through life trying not to be a c.&#46;&#46;/prick. So i choose to use different ways to express myself where i'm not being a c.&#46;&#46;/prick to someone, regardless if i'm not intending to be - it's not all about me - and there's plenty of alternative phrases.
I also appreciate the c-word might be derogatory to women as well. Apologies, but it more accurately gets across the severity of the sentiment.


On the other side of the equation:
FWIW, stomping down on someone who has said something pretty minor who clearly isn't intending the offence it might cause isn't really helping anyone. It takes 2 minutes to politely explain why the words they used might be interpreted in a way they don't intend. At least give them the credit to think about it for themselves. If they want to be a dick about it from there, then that's something to take further. And also might be worthwhile not leaping aggressively to the defence of people who have already politely responded to someone who's posted reasonable negative feedback again is not really helping the situation - it all just becomes a shit-fight from there on and everyone walks away angry without learning anything.

All just my opinion, offered in good faith.

-----------------
FWIW, my 2c on what happened:

The negative feedback was fair enough - someone's opinion given in a reasonable fashion. Might've been a bit strong in sentiment, but let's just say it simply conveys his disappointment at the time and at least isn't having a go at the organisers. It possibly could've been clarified "prizes" doesn't necessarily mean oodles of cash, and that a certificate might've been sufficient. In hindsight this might've headed off some emotions from the get-go.

The MM guys seem to have responded really well, particularly considering it was negative feedback on a huge gig that they would've slaved for many hours to see to completion. Credit to them for maintaining cool heads and taking it on board.
Their response was responded to in kind, discussion moved ahead reasonably well. Everything's peachy.

Then a couple of hours after it's all fairly happily resolved, a new post or 2 seemed to weigh in with additional emotions to muddy/antogionise the waters. Not really helpful, even if the best intentions were present. 
---------------

Finally & most importantly, a massive congratulations to the MM organisers for running the IPA comp. It sounds like it was a huge success, and will be even better next year. 
(& as a part-time, long-time MM member, i'll try to front a beer or 2 for next years comp. Honest! TBH, this/last year's IPA wasn't up to a standard i was happy with)



Edit: changed the c-bomb a little. Sounded like a good statement at the time, but not 20mins after posting [emoji6] ... Ironic example of needing to filter your words. [emoji1]
Cheers to TSMill for confirming a little twinge of doubt on how it was going to look to others [emoji57]


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## TSMill (21/3/17)

TLDR but....

Don't mention panties because of negative female inferences and it makes you a.......****?

I think part of the universe just collapsed in on itself.


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## manticle (21/3/17)

150 worth of hops = 1 yob entry.
Better make it 250.


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## technobabble66 (21/3/17)

TSMill said:


> TLDR but....
> 
> Don't mention panties because of negative female inferences and it makes you a.......****?
> 
> I think part of the universe just collapsed in on itself.


Yeah, it sounded fine when written. Especially after spending a Sunday with some gay friends who drop the c-bomb like confetti. 
But I'd agree, if nothing else it too easily overshadows the point I was trying to make. 
Edited it out.


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## Yob (22/3/17)

zeggie said:


> No worries. We'll hit you up to sponsor a category next year ($150 in hops? An IPA comp is perfect to sponsor!)


its unlikely that HDA will be around this time next year but tell ya what, I'll sponsor you for 10 x ribbons for first, second and third... 

>LIKE THIS<


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## Nullnvoid (22/3/17)

technobabble66 said:


> Yeah, it sounded fine when written. Especially after spending a Sunday with some gay friends who drop the c-bomb like confetti.
> But I'd agree, if nothing else it too easily overshadows the point I was trying to make.
> Edited it out.


I like how you still left a sneaky one in there


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## Nullnvoid (22/3/17)

Yob said:


> its unlikely that HDA will be around this time next year



Not this rubbish again  And then you go and order 50kg of hops  hahahaha


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## technobabble66 (22/3/17)

Nullnvoid said:


> I like how you still left a sneaky one in there


Oops [emoji15]
[emoji1]


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## GrumpyPaul (22/3/17)

Im too busy getting in trouble for sending innapropriate office wide emails to respond to this any further


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## GalBrew (22/3/17)

I'm more offended by the miss use of the word infer when the correct word is imply. Seriously it shits me and people do it all the time.


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## technobabble66 (22/3/17)

GalBrew said:


> I'm more offended by the miss use of the word infer when the correct word is imply. ...


infer
ɪnˈfəː/
verb
deduce or conclude (something) from evidence and reasoning rather than from explicit statements.

imply
ɪmˈplʌɪ/
verb
indicate the truth or existence of (something) by suggestion rather than explicit reference.


Yeah, massive difference in everyday usage [emoji15]

[emoji1]


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## manticle (22/3/17)

I draw inference from your implication


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## GalBrew (22/3/17)

technobabble66 said:


> infer
> ɪnˈfəː/
> verb
> deduce or conclude (something) from evidence and reasoning rather than from explicit statements.
> ...


There is actually quite a big difference namely the subject to whom you assign the verb to in a sentence. Yes they have a very similar meaning but even the definitions you have provided show the difference. Also why suggest that it's ok to be wrong just because it is 'everyday usage'. Anyway the point is you should have used 'imply' in that instance.

I am also aware of the irony that by posting this I have 'bunched my panties' as it were and I really should try to remedy this situation immediately. 

I also realise that no one cares, and I was just having a bit of an OT poke (as happens around here on occasion).


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## mtb (22/3/17)

Why does it affect you so much GalBrew?


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## GalBrew (22/3/17)

mtb said:


> Why does it affect you so much GalBrew?


Thank you for using 'affect' and not 'effect' in your post. Otherwise I think my panties may have re-bunched.


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## manticle (22/3/17)

I care


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## mtb (22/3/17)

Sh*t. Using "effect" is exactly what I intended to do, looks like I managed to bugger that up.


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## GalBrew (22/3/17)

mtb said:


> Sh*t. Using "effect" is exactly what I intended to do, looks like I managed to bugger that up.


No matter, worked out well in the end! [emoji106]


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## GrumpyPaul (22/3/17)

GalBrew said:


> There is actually quite a big difference namely the subject to whom you assign the verb to in a sentence. Yes they have a very similar meaning but even the definitions you have provided show the difference. Also why suggest that it's ok to be wrong just because it is 'everyday usage'. Anyway the point is you should have used 'imply' in that instance.
> 
> I am also aware of the irony that by posting this I have 'bunched my panties' as it were and I really should try to remedy this situation immediately.
> 
> I also realise that no one cares, and I was just having a bit of an OT poke (as happens around here on occasion).


You had to go and mention the panties again.

On behalf of Galbrew (and all ahb) I extend an apology to Fergthebewer's girlfriend, Mrs technobabble and any other ladies, or others, that may or may not be effected by any inferred implication that being a girl wearing panties (bunched our unbunched) is in any way a negative thing.

And...

Great job to the MM crew for organising a great comp even if it didn't have certificates, ribbons or other acknowledgement for place getters paid for out of any implied (did I get that right) profits whether they be real or imagined in the minds of internet dwelling forum readers regardless of there beer making abilities or lack thereof.

Let the grammar Nazis have a field day with that one.

And sorry if I offend any Nazis on this forum...I'm assure that's more offensive than panty bunching.


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## MartinOC (22/3/17)

GrumpyPaul said:


> I extend an apology to Fergthebewer's girlfriend, Mrs technobabble and any other ladies, or others, that may or may not be effected by any inferred implication that being a girl wearing panties (bunched our unbunched) is in any way a negative thing.
> 
> Let the grammar Nazis have a field day with that one.
> 
> And sorry if I offend any Nazis on this forum...I'm assure that's more offensive than panty bunching.


 :icon_offtopic: I'm surprised Galbrew's not already all over that one like a big black Rottweiler in heat.

Personally, I find girls NOT wearing panties a most pleasurable revelation 

Nazi's/Gays/Lesbians/Grammar Nazi's/Panties/Boxer-shorts/use of the word C**t etc..etc...

Can we just move on from this crap please & just let the MM guys digest the fallout from their comp?

It's gone beyond topic & not particularly funny/distracting any more (apart from my panty-less girls comment above, which I felt was particularly witty....Like a stream of Bat's Piss  ).


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## GrumpyPaul (22/3/17)

MartinOC said:


> :icon_offtopic:
> 
> Can we just move on from this crap please & just let the MM guys digest the fallout from their comp?
> 
> It's gone beyond topic & not particularly funny/distracting any more (apart from my panty-less girls comment above, which I felt was particularly witty....Like a stream of Bat's Piss  ).


Thankyou MorderatorOC


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## GalBrew (22/3/17)

MartinOC said:


> :icon_offtopic: I'm surprised Galbrew's not already all over that one like a big black Rottweiler in heat.
> 
> Personally, I find girls NOT wearing panties a most pleasurable revelation
> 
> ...


Sorry Martin, I'm in NZ and my internets are a bit sporadic. Anyway I agree, carry on Mashers and well done!


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