# Coopers Sparking Ale Kit Addition Reccommendations



## sinkas (27/4/05)

Hi all,
I am about to purchse products for my first brew.
I quite like the idea of a coopers Sparkilng ale, 
I thought I woudl try the CSA kit, but was wondering if anyone had any advice on add-ins or modifications I should make to give the best possibly outcome.
IE should I use a different yeast?
What should I use to prime with?

Sorry, but could not find anything on the net or here to assist in this quandry,

Cheers

Case


----------



## PostModern (27/4/05)

I'm about to brew one of these as well.

I am going precisely by the instructions on the can. Kit, 1.5Kg LME, 1Kg DME, 300g dextrose. I'll be boiling the extracts and dextrose in about 5 litres of water and adding 15g of NZ Hallertau flowers for 10 mins. 

This is not an easy kit for a first batch, as it's pretty high gravity - should produce 5.8% alc/vol, like the original.

Coopers prime their bottles with fresh wort, but I'll just be using DME (sort of wort-like I guess).

You could use White Labs Australian Ale yeast or culture up some yeast from bottles of Coopers. The latter should/would give you the best chances of replicating the Coopers Sparkling Ale taste. I'll be using the kit yeast and trying to keep the fermentation temp around 20C.

I'm trying this batch for a second time, as I borked around too much on my first attempt and made a pretty ordinary beer. I'd be happy to hear comments from others who've brewed this kit too.


----------



## shmick (27/4/05)

Hi sinkas

For a first brew just keep it simple.
You can grab one of those 'brew booster' type packs from a HBS. There are several types and they will contain pretty much what PostModern is specifying (light/amber malt + dextrose?).
Avoid using just straight sucrose or dextrose as the entire addition - they produce a cidery twang that isn't real nice.

As a simple alternative you can just dump 2 cans in and be done with it.
I found the CSA can be a bit harsh/unbalanced this way and used to do the Pale ale instead. You can also add 1/2 - 1 kg of dry malt extract as an option to boost the alc content if required. I've never found it necessary.

Use the dry yeast with the kit and you will end up with the basic Coopers flavour.

Extra hops are optional. The small foil pkts with the tea bag inside are ok - just bung it in a coffee mug, cover with boiling water for a few minutes then empty the entire contents into the fermenter (and stir) before pitching the yeast. Try not to rip the bag but not critical.

Ferment @ 20C for a week or 2 and bottle condition for as long as you can resist. It is however, beneficial to test a few during this conditioning just to see what changes are going on. I use longneck bottles (750ml) but also fill 4 or 5 stubbies just for testing.

Prime with whatever you have on hand - Dextrose, malt extract etc - it won't effect the flavour that much.

Invest in a second fermenter - you can then use it for bulk priming. Much easier.


----------



## Aaron (27/4/05)

Alien boy said:


> Just don't expect it to taste like the commercial product CSA.
> I did one when it first came out.Its much darker and has to much caramel type malt sweetness for my taste.
> [post="56469"][/post]​



I found the exact same thing. Got an overly sweet caramel beer. Made it similar to the instructions on the can. Did not suit my tastes at all and I do like the real thing. Maybe hopping it up to counter the sweet flavours would work.


----------



## jayse (27/4/05)

Iam not a brewer who does these brews but i have a reasonble handle on them after i guess you could say 'i cut my teeth on them'.
Anyway the final gravity is very very important and you will not reach that unless you use a reasonble amount of dextrose, i hear people say all the time i used the kit with malt extract and it didn't work out right, of course its not gunna work out right because with all malt extract it has no chance in hell of fermenting out to below 1.008, you'll be looking at more like 1.015 at best which will not be anything like CSA.
Anyway don't be affraid to use at least 500g of dextrose in your brew.
The only other suggestion is 15g of P.O.R in a coffee cup of hot water and dump that in with the rest.
Good luck, the only point i mean to make is you need a reasonble amount of dextrose to pull this beer off properly when you are basing it on malt extract.

Poor Tom
Jayse
PS i would stick to the yeast under the lid sinkas.


----------



## Trent (27/4/05)

Sinkas
This one was my house brew before i went AG, and although ya have already got good advice on what to do, I will put in my 2 cents. The kit, 1.5kg light LME, 500g light DME and 300g dextrose are what I used to use, and I also used yeast cultured from a bottle of CSA. I never boiled the extracts, or added any extra hops, I found it turned out really well, though only fermented to about 1015, as Jayse pointed out. I found with the cultured yeast, it was a little more florally than CSA, but very tasty none the less. If you use the kit yeast, it will taste a bit closer to the real thing. It tasted a bit ordinary after 2 and 3 weeks in the bottle (had to try it) but after about 4 weeks, it seemed to be a different beer overnight, and I lived on the stuff. I think that ya will be very happy with the results, I certainly was.
All the best
Trent


----------



## dickTed (27/4/05)

Well, I don't seem to use any other kits than this now, but I'll be trying Heritage lager in the winter. 

Love the bitterness, which gives you a bit of scope for adding more extract & crystal. I don't bother with dex, but then I've made it different each time anyway. SG's from 1039 to 1054. I ignore their recipe, because what I get tastes better than CSA-IMO.

Have tried it with it's own yeast, with Safale 04 and Muntons premium gold. Don't think I'll use the Coopers yeast again. Even after 2 weeks in secondary, and another 2 or 3 weeks bottled, I can still see a little stream of yeasty-poo's coming out the bottle.

This leaves me with the problem of what to do with my collection of Coopers yeast. Wonder how they'd go in the bread maker?

So yeah. I recommend it. You can't go wrong with it really.


----------



## Busboy (28/4/05)

I agree with Alien Boy and Aaron. I made it according to instructions and got a beer that was overly sweet and caramel-like. The problem, I guess, was that the FG was 1020. Nothing I did seemed able to get it to ferment out further. Maybe extra dextose is the key, as previously mentioned.


----------



## PostModern (28/4/05)

I don't know if sinkas is still reading this, but thanks to everyone for their input. I'll take it on board when sticking my brew on.

I'm boiling the LME because I bought the LHBS repackaged bulk malt (in takeaway-type containers) so I want to ensure it's sterile, as well as getting hot and cold break material out. 

Reading jayse's comments about achieving low FG, I will replace 220g of the DME with 200g of dextrose and swap the Hallertau for POR. Does this look right:

Kit (in fermenter)
1.5Kg LME
780g Light DME
500g Dextrose
15g POR 1 min


----------



## pint of lager (28/4/05)

Pomo, I am not sure if the first 1.5kg LME represents the kit or not. If it is extra LME on top of the kit, plus the DME, it will turn out way too sweet.

As has been previously pointed out, LME and DME does not ferment all the way out, the residual long chain malts remain in the beer to give body and flavour and will also contribute sweetness. This sweetness must be balanced by hop flavours and hop bitterness. The ratio of the fg (residual malt sweetness) and bitterness of the bittering hops (not the flavour hops) is very important to the overall final balance of the beer.

The amount of bitterness is already set by the contents of the kit. Too much extra LME or DME will not be balanced out.

I suggest:
1 tin of coopers sparkling ale into the fermenter

1kg LME
500gms dextrose
15 gms your choice of finishing hops, POR or hallertau

If you want a bit more oomph, maybe another 200gms dextrose. No more.

If you have DME rather than LME, use 800gms of DME rather than the 1kg of LME.

If you like this and it is not too sweetly balanced for you, up the LME or DME by 200gms next time.


----------



## warrenlw63 (28/4/05)

Another alternative is to go to your health food store and try and find some rice syrup. Good for lightening the body on kit beers without the residual cidery character of sugar or dextrose.

Add 500g of this with either 500g of dextrose or LME. I used to do this with some success.

Warren -


----------



## PostModern (28/4/05)

The kit instructions recommend the kit plus LME plus DME plus dextrose in order to get to the 5.8% of CSA. Maybe I misread it? The last (and only) time I brewed this kit, I used just 1.5Kg of DME and it came out WAAAAY too bitter. I assumed the Sparkling Ale kit is very high on the IBUs to balance all the fermentables as recommended on the can.

Now I realise there is an inherant danger in following kits' instructions, but in this case, the amount of additional fermentables seems justified.

We are all talking about the Coopers Heritage Series Sparkling Ale kit aren't we? This is from the Coopers website:



> Thomas Cooper's Premium Selection Sparkling Ale - The big brother of Coopers Original Pale Ale, displays fruity esters on the nose, full malty palate with a generously hopped clean finish.
> 
> Designed to be brewed with 1.5kg Light Malt Extract, 500g Light Dry Malt and 300g Dextrose/Sugar.



EDIT: Ah, I see my error, somehow got it into my head that I needed 1Kg of DME, not 500g


----------



## pint of lager (28/4/05)

My apologies Pomo, I had looked at the heritage lager and bitter instructions on the tins and they both recommended 1.5kg of LME. Hadn't realised the heritage sparkling ale instructions were different.

That is a gutfull of extras for a kit.


----------



## PostModern (28/4/05)

No worries PoL. My initial error of the 1Kg of DME started the whole confusion. It's probably the only kit on the market aiming for a 5.8% finished product!

I think I will still take a leaf from jayse's book and swing the DME:dextrose ratio towards the dextrose side, tho. A thin finish is what I'm after.

I bought this kit as a quick keg filler, for one of those brew-nights when I don't have the time or energy to put on a part mash. One keg of a thick syrupy Porter and one of CSA should be a good combo for winter.


----------



## sinkas (28/4/05)

Hi all,
Thankyou for all the replies,
I will definitely make use of the knowledge.
hopefully I can get the brew down in the next week or so.
Cheers

Case


----------



## PostModern (29/4/05)

sinkas,
Let's both post back here with what we did and tasting notes once the beers are down? 
Grain and Grape have this on their site:

1 Tin of Coopers Sparkling Ale
300g Light Dried malt extract
500g Dextrose
1.5 kg Light Malt Extract
Final Gravity 1016

Sounds OK to me.


----------



## sinkas (1/5/05)

Hi Postmodern,

My finances took a hit this last week, so I wont get mine down until next weekedn, but I will sure give an update when its up and running.
I will definitly add the 15G POR

Cheers

Case


----------



## sinkas (2/5/05)

Hi all, and Post modern,

I got a chance to visit TWOC today, and have since put down a sparkling ale,
I have used the Grain and Grape method, and I have added a tea bag of POR

SG 1060

The stick on temp guage said the brew was at 30C when I pitched the yeast and hops in, put I am sure it would be more like 20 degrees.


Is that ok?

Also some questions:

Shoud I have kept some yeast for bottling?

What sugar should I use for bottling?

At 20-22C how long should I wasit unitl I check the gravity again?

Cheers

Case


----------



## sinkas (3/5/05)

Bump
Anyone?


----------



## Gough (3/5/05)

G'day Sinkas,

Don't worry about keeping yeast back for bottling. Unless you lager it at -1 degrees for 6 months you will have plenty of yeast left in the brew for carbonation.

Dextrose is good for bottling, but if you are keen you can use dried malt extract. You will need more dme than dextrose because the dextrose is more fermentable. Personally I use dextrose.

Check the gravity whenever you like. You are obvoiusly wasting beer each time though. If this is an early brew then maybe checking each day or so will give you a good feel for how things taste over the ferm. process. You only really need to check when you think it is done or if you think you have a ferm. problem.

Hope that helped and good luck,

Shawn.


----------



## PostModern (4/5/05)

sinkas said:


> The stick on temp guage said the brew was at 30C when I pitched the yeast and hops in, put I am sure it would be more like 20 degrees.
> 
> [post="57148"][/post]​



How are you sure it's 20 when the thermometer shows 30?


----------



## RobW (4/5/05)

sinkas said:


> The stick on temp guage said the brew was at 30C when I pitched the yeast and hops in, put I am sure it would be more like 20 degrees.
> 
> 
> Is that ok?
> ...


----------



## fergi (4/5/05)

sinkas,
if the stick on said that your brew was 30 deg then you can bet it was very close to that,i have tested all my stick ons with a fowlers vacola stainless steel thermometer and they are always within 1 deg,i dont throw my yeast in now until i get the brew down to about 22 then get it down to 18/20 by the next day
cheers
fergi


----------



## sinkas (4/5/05)

Hi all,

Well it nlooks like I made a bit of a screw up, I was sure the stick on thermomenter, was just really slow reacting, but I think you were all right, it was about 26-30 when I pichted the yeast, will this screw the brew, I now have it down to 22, in a bath of water, with ice every morning and night.

If I was to rack this brew, does it matter If I leave it until sunday, 6 days?

Or do you have to rack before the SG drops too much?

Case


----------



## PostModern (4/5/05)

Some rack at half gravity, some rack at 3/4. Personally I rack a few days after fermentation is finished - 7-10 days.

Good that you've got the temp down.

I'll be putting mine on shortly.


----------



## sinkas (22/5/05)

Hi all,

Just a quick question or 2
1) I thought the brew had totally finished , as I had not seen a airlock bubble for a few days, then this morning, its back and brewing, even though the temperature is still as low as it was for the last few days..Should I be concerned that some sort of secondary effect is occuring?

2) I ma not really going to have time to bottle for a few weeks, will leaving it in the fermenter for the long be a problem?


Cheers

Case


----------



## Jovial_Monk (22/5/05)

Don't rely on the airlock, use your hydrometer.

Might be an idea to rack into a cube b4 heading off

Jovial Monk


----------



## sinkas (22/5/05)

Hi there,
Thanks for the tips Jovial monk,
I thought that it had stopped brewing, by hydrometer reading...
Where can I get a "Cube" at a HBS, or are they just 20litre water barrels?
Are you suggesting I refrigerate once in the "Cube"

Case


----------



## ausdb (22/5/05)

Hi Sinkas

the main reason to rack it is to get the beer off the yeast. Get a blue Willow 20L jerrycan from Supercheap autos, they fit in a fridge real well and have provision to fit a tap to the bottom if you want. I also find they work well as a primary fermenter, just use the cone shaped pourer with bung in it and a piece of beverage tube down into a blowoff bottle.

Nice to meet you yesterday

Cheers Ausdb


----------



## Jovial_Monk (22/5/05)

Yup, cube is a foodgrade plastic water container, about $15 at Bunnings--or Jovial Monk 

I tend to refridgerate my cubes for at least two weeks--good opportunity to dry hop with a plug or two

JM


----------



## PostModern (9/6/05)

I've finally got this bugger going.

Put in:

Kit

Boiled 30 mins:

1.5Kg LME (HBS packs)
400g light DME
400g dextrose
15g NZ Hallertau 15 mins
15g Hallertau flameout

22 litres. OG 1.056.

Pitched half a pint of recultured Coopers yeast slurry from an earlier brew. She's fermenting along nicely at 21C in a room about 18C ambient.

Will let this ferment until next week and see how she goes. 

Bottled yours yet sinkas?


----------



## sinkas (10/6/05)

Hi there Post Modern,
Have not bottled yet, I racked it afgter 2 weeks, and it was at about 1017 , its now down to 1014 or loer, adn settled, I will bottle late next week.
A couple of the WA members tasted a couple of bottle I capped when I racked, adn they said it tasted ok, so I am hoping it will be ok, clacuates to about 6-6.2 alch, but that is ok.

case


----------



## PostModern (28/6/05)

I put mine in the keg on the weekend and tasted it last night. Not bad. Might need a few more weeks on the CO2 to improve.


----------



## sinkas (28/6/05)

hi there Post Modern,
Mine has been in the bottle for a bit over a week now.
After one week, the bottles were still quite flat, and the beer is really quite sweet and a little raw flavoured. I think the extra POR was maybe a mistake, as it has become quite prominant, and gives a VB like aftertaste.

Cheers

Case


----------



## KillerRx4 (14/7/05)

Ive got the kitchen to myself tonight so its brew time  

Ive got a few things i can put down put I think i will go with the CSA.

I dont have a 1.5 can of LME however i do have a 1.7 can of coopers draught, Reckon this will suffice?

Also will add the 1kg of DME & 500g dex.

I also have some cascade pellets I could add if anyone thinks it will need some extra hoppyness....Im considering boiling the lot up for 10 odd mins so will chuck in some cascade towards the end of the boil.


Sound good?


----------



## BRAD T (30/9/05)

Hi Guys,
I am just about to have a go at a Thomas Coopers Sparkling Ale kit that I was given, I have read thru this thread and was wondering how you guys that brewed this in various ways found the finished product. I tend to drink CSA when I am out somewhere or I have nothing ready at home( seems to happen all too often, might have to start doing 40 litre batches) does the kit turn out like this? 
I like my own brews to have quite a lot of body and mouthfeel so usually add a bit of grain to a kit to boost it a bit, what thoughts on this?
Also I feel that CSA is not the same beer as it used to be, does any one else have this opinion. From memory it seems to have changed about the same time as they changed from the ring pull cap to a twistie. Is this just me?

Cheers 
Brad T


----------



## Steve (30/9/05)

Brad - In the past Ive just used a bag of "The Right Stuff" from Cols and maybe some extra hops (as a tea in primary) . Turns out good. Im also putting one of these down this weekend for a quick quaffer. I will be using w1968 this time though instead of dry yeast. I also wouldnt mind steeping some grains to add to it so would be interested to see what people suggest.
Cheers
Steve


----------



## BRAD T (30/9/05)

Hi Steve,
I was at Col's yesterday to get some LME and a bit of Cara Pils for a Best Bitter partial, at that stage I hadn't read the instruction leaflet inside the lid so I didn't get the LDM or dextrose, I guess I will have to take another trip. I also got a couple of POR rhizomes from Col.

Cheers
Brad T


----------



## PostModern (30/9/05)

I don't think steepable grains would be suitable. Maybe JW trad ale malt would go, but it certainly doesn't need any crystal. 1968 would probably drop too clear (not that I've used it yet see  here) for a true Coopers clone.

Best yeast would be Coopers recultured from the bottle.

But then, I've only done this kit twice.


----------



## Steve (30/9/05)

cheers for your thoughts PM
Steve


----------



## Steve (30/9/05)

PM - noticed in your "in primary" you have Coopers Aussie Pale Ale.... what did you use with that and what yeast?


----------



## BRAD T (30/9/05)

Thanks PM,
I was thinking of a steep with some pale ale malt and a bit of Carapils. I was just going to use the yeast that came with the kit but could culture up some from a bottle of CSA, I have a couple handy. Good reason to drink them I guess.

Cheers
Brad T


----------



## PostModern (30/9/05)

Steve said:


> PM - noticed in your "in primary" you have Coopers Aussie Pale Ale.... what did you use with that and what yeast?
> [post="80409"][/post]​



I should update my sig. It's in secondary now, waiting for my lazy arse to get up and keg it.

I used the kit yeast with 1Kg Light LME, 400g of DME, 250g of brown sugar and two plugs of EKG hops. I don't think it's really a Coopers kit any more 

I've made that kit in the past on the Coopers bottle yeast with a kilo of DME and 300g of dextrose (or close enough) and some dry hops (can't recall what I had on hand at the time, Goldings or Hallertau most likely) and it was great. 

I mostly brew part mashes, so when I put a kit on, I tinker them beyond all recognition


----------



## Mr Bond (30/9/05)

BRAD T said:


> Hi Guys,
> I am just about to have a go at a Thomas Coopers Sparkling Ale kit that I was given, I have read thru this thread and was wondering how you guys that brewed this in various ways found the finished product. I tend to drink CSA when I am out somewhere or I have nothing ready at home( seems to happen all too often, might have to start doing 40 litre batches) does the kit turn out like this?
> I like my own brews to have quite a lot of body and mouthfeel so usually add a bit of grain to a kit to boost it a bit, what thoughts on this?
> Also I feel that CSA is not the same beer as it used to be, does any one else have this opinion. From memory it seems to have changed about the same time as they changed from the ring pull cap to a twistie. Is this just me?
> ...



The kit is nothing at all like a CSA on tap or bottle.For a start its too dark and crystaly.If you read the blurb on the can it says it is like the traditional ale or somesuch crap.IMHO you would get a closer CSA clone with a can of draught and a recultured yeast.

And yes the CSA now is not like it used to be.Its much thinner and less fruity on the nose and palate,bit with an FG of 1002 what can u expect :excl:


----------



## PostModern (30/9/05)

I heard/read somewhere that Coopers lost their original blended yeast strain when they moved premises, which probably accounts for the lost fruitiness. It is nothing like the Coopers I used to drink at the Uni bar way back in the 80's. 

Is the current CSA really as thin as 1.002?


----------



## Mr Bond (30/9/05)

PostModern said:


> I heard/read somewhere that Coopers lost their original blended yeast strain when they moved premises, which probably accounts for the lost fruitiness. It is nothing like the Coopers I used to drink at the Uni bar way back in the 80's.
> 
> Is the current CSA really as thin as 1.002?
> [post="80440"][/post]​



Yeah I heard that story too,but wasn't sure if it was bonafide or just apocryphal :excl: 

The fg figures i got from a conversation i had with tdh(GT) about CSA.


Addendum......I recently had a CSA that was 12 months past its best b4 date and it was very lagerlike and superdry(almost generic) but still quite drinkable in an interesting way.


----------



## BRAD T (1/10/05)

Brauluver,
I don't know whyere yuo get your CSA But none that I have ever had have a Best before date. Mine only have a "Best After" date on them.

Cheers


----------



## Kai (1/10/05)

They didn't 'lose' their strain in the move, but I think they did select down to a single strain at some point. You can still get a good ester profile from it depending on how you treat it.


----------

