# How long can you leave in the fermenter?



## No.42-jsb (24/7/17)

So I got asked this question by my brother in law. He's got a batch that he's had in the primary fermenter since January/February (he's not sure exactly when). It's kept in his garage. I can't vouch for that so just assume the temperature varies. After telling him to keep better track of his beers so he knows how long it's been there and so he can bottle them without having to buy VB (how he drinks VB after home brew I don't know) I said I'd find out. My suggestion was take the lid off and if it's not infected or mouldy try and bottle it.
I know you can lager for months but I'm unsure when the temp would be varying like it would have been since the start of the year.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.


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## n87 (24/7/17)

Taste it.

I would guess it tastes like liquid Vegemite.


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## homebrewnewb (24/7/17)

Well if it's sterile you will be right but you will need to re-prime with another starter, consider the yeast has depleted all it's food, unless it's dormant, but that's a bit of a long shot.
Drop some out and see if you can re-prime it after a week, if bottling's your thing.
if it's not re-priming, and still tastes good you might have to make a starter, or if it's going in a keg no worries.
i think it's too soon for autolysis, but 7 months who knows.
taste it and get back to us.


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## mtb (24/7/17)

Yeah I'm with n87, tell him to have some toast ready


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## wide eyed and legless (24/7/17)

I would be tipping it.


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## Lethaldog (24/7/17)

If he's a VB drinker maybe he did it on purpose, probably still wouldn't taste as bad[emoji23]


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## MitchD (24/7/17)

I'd say taste and see. I had a brew with an off flavour dms/underpitch that I racked to secondary march last year in the hope that the off flavours would clear over Canberra winter. Anyway it didn't so I left it until after summer, then may this year. Tried it again and the dms and other unwanted flavours remained, but nothing new. No oxidation, no Vegemite, lots of hop flavour and aroma remained (I used lots of home grown Chinook) I tipped it only because I couldn't stand the dms and needed the space.


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## Grott (24/7/17)

Just tell him to smell it and taste it. If it's off tell him to bottle it in VB bottles as he won't know the difference.


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## n87 (24/7/17)

MitchD said:


> I'd say taste and see. I had a brew with an off flavour dms/underpitch that I racked to secondary march last year in the hope that the off flavours would clear over Canberra winter. Anyway it didn't so I left it until after summer, then may this year. Tried it again and the dms and other unwanted flavours remained, but nothing new. No oxidation, no Vegemite, lots of hop flavour and aroma remained (I used lots of home grown Chinook) I tipped it only because I couldn't stand the dms and needed the space.



See, you racked into secondary. you didnt leave it on the full yeast cake that whole time


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## MitchD (24/7/17)

n87 said:


> See, you racked into secondary. you didnt leave it on the full yeast cake that whole time


There was a lot of yeast in the bottom of the fv when I did tip it. Not a full yeast cake but more than I thought there would be.


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## No.42-jsb (24/7/17)

Thanks, guys. Had a good laugh at some of the VB comments and have noted the others to pass on.


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## No.42-jsb (24/7/17)

homebrewnewb said:


> Well if it's sterile you will be right but you will need to re-prime with another starter, consider the yeast has depleted all it's food, unless it's dormant, but that's a bit of a long shot.
> Drop some out and see if you can re-prime it after a week, if bottling's your thing.
> if it's not re-priming, and still tastes good you might have to make a starter, or if it's going in a keg no worries.
> i think it's too soon for autolysis, but 7 months who knows.
> taste it and get back to us.



What would you recommend for a starter in this case?


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## MHB (24/7/17)

homebrewnewb said:


> Well if it's sterile you will be right but you will need to re-prime with another starter, consider the yeast has depleted all it's food, unless it's dormant, but that's a bit of a long shot.
> Drop some out and see if you can re-prime it after a week, if bottling's your thing.
> if it's not re-priming, and still tastes good you might have to make a starter, or if it's going in a keg no worries.
> i think it's too soon for autolysis, but 7 months who knows.
> taste it and get back to us.



Not even going to bother with most of the blather in your reply but after 7 months, odds of being "sterile" =0.
Would there be autolysis after 7 months - yes - guaranteed
Mark

Yes you can drink metho - it tastes like shit. someone pointed out that under Australian law tax evasion isn't/shouldn't be a capital offence so they no longer ad methanol nor other Toxic flavours.
M


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## No.42-jsb (24/7/17)

MHB said:


> Not even going to bother with most of the blather in your reply but after 7 months, odds of being "sterile" =0.
> Would there be autolysis after 7 months - yes - guaranteed
> Mark
> 
> ...



So your opinion is to tip it? Not much he could do to save it?


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## MHB (24/7/17)

Christ if it was a loaf of bread, no one would even ask the question. Just because its beer doesn't exempt it from the normal rules food safety or sanity.
Tip it the hell out and confiscate his equipment, you would be doing him a favour.
M


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## Stouter (24/7/17)

MHB said:


> confiscate his equipment
> M


 Get the homebrew task force onto this now before more atrocities happen.


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## manticle (24/7/17)

Taste it so you understand why leaving beer on the primary yeast cake for 7 months in variable, uncontrolled conditions is a bad idea.

Then you'll probably want to tip it.

You can leave beer for months but not on loads of yeast, not without reducing the exposure to oxygen and not without controlling the temperature.


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## mtb (24/7/17)

MHB said:


> confiscate his equipment, you would be doing him a favour.


Or, maybe, just help the guy learn how to brew properly. No need to be an arse about it.


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## Stouter (24/7/17)

mtb said:


> Or, maybe, just help the guy learn how to brew properly. No need to be an arse about it.



I'm guessing that he has limited interest in any improvement. Having said that, I found myself in a similar situation through bad circumstance and it wasn't until life conditions changed favourably that I gave Brewing another more serious try.


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## mtb (24/7/17)

Stouter said:


> I'm guessing that he has limited interest in any improvement. Having said that, I found myself in a similar situation through bad circumstance and it wasn't until life conditions changed favourably that I gave Brewing another more serious try.


We have no idea what sort of attitude this guy has to brewing - he could've had that batch in his garage for so long due to plenty of reasons - so to assume he's an idiot who doesn't deserve brewing gear is nothing short of arrogant. No.42-jsb has made an attempt to find some useful advice here, I guess I have an issue with him receiving the exact opposite.


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## Stouter (24/7/17)

mtb said:


> We have no idea what sort of attitude this guy has to brewing.


Kind of my point. Who knows what made him walk away from an active brew for that long. Dog died, relationship fell apart, lost his job? Could've been anything.
My first uninformed assumption though is that he just didn't really give a #*£!
You're right though, there should be more support and proactive suggestions so we can help this from never happening again.


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## abyss (25/7/17)

Run it though a still to save the alcohol and use the rest as weed spray.


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## Grott (25/7/17)

No.42-jsb said:


> Thanks, guys. Had a good laugh at some of the VB comments and have noted the others to pass on.



It is difficult sometimes to deal with a third party in attempting to provide advice and help. Is your brother in law able to join here so we could assist?


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## homebrewnewb (25/7/17)

MHB said:


> Not even going to bother with most of the blather in your reply but after 7 months, odds of being "sterile" =0.
> Would there be autolysis after 7 months - yes - guaranteed
> Mark
> 
> ...


but how do you know hes not doing a lambic in flat copper barrel in nelson new zealand where the ambient temp wasnt over 25 that summer, yes it's proabaly cactus but let's find out.


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## Danscraftbeer (25/7/17)

Hangovers! 
That is the basic question of getting bad alcohol in your brewing. 
If you brew well then you shall not get headache.


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## homebrewnewb (25/7/17)

Danscraftbeer said:


> Hangovers!
> That is the basic question of getting bad alcohol in your brewing.
> If you brew well then you shall not get headache.


there is no bad alcohol just bad processes, unless that's what you wanted... you get my point.


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## manticle (25/7/17)

homebrewnewb said:


> but how do you know hes not doing a lambic in flat copper barrel in nelson new zealand where the ambient temp wasnt over 25 that summer, yes it's proabaly cactus but let's find out.



So he's making a sterile lambic?


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## homebrewnewb (25/7/17)

bloke purges the fv with iso propl lets it evaporate and dumps the wort in, wort's innoculated by wild yeast. who knows?


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## manticle (25/7/17)

Presumably neither of us but refreshing your understanding of sterility in this context wouldn't hurt.


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## Rocker1986 (26/7/17)

He's got a way to go to beat my dad who left a batch of ginger beer in a fermenter for about 7 years.  Needless to say it was tipped out. Didn't even bother tasting it either. I think the fermenter was chucked as well.

I would suggest tasting this brew but I think it is destined for the drain myself. Not sure of the circumstances as to why it was left in there for so long but generally you'd be wanting to get it out of the primary fermenter in 2-3 weeks tops.


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## Rocker1986 (26/7/17)

Danscraftbeer said:


> Hangovers!
> That is the basic question of getting bad alcohol in your brewing.
> If you brew well then you shall not get headache.


Hangovers and headaches are mainly due to de-hydration by the alcohol... whether it's good, bad or indifferent doesn't matter. For every ounce of alcohol you consume you lose about 10 in fluids. That's why you're always pissing during a session. If you drink a fcukton of water after a reasonable session before sleeping then it reduces the effects quite a bit, at least for me. If I forget the water I always wake up with a splitting headache whether I've been drinking home brew or commercial beer or JD or whatever.


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## MHB (26/7/17)

I think its pretty safe to say that the brother-in-law (see OP) doesn't know a whole lot about brewing, if he knew what a Lambic or a flattened copper pot was he wouldn't be asking advice from a fairly evident noob.
We can dream up as many fantasy scenarios where the beer might be OK as we like - truth is if you know anything about brewing you know its stuffed.
Throw it out, its probably a good idea to toss the equipment to (plastic, nearly impossible to get sterilised), the best you could do is give the brother-in-law some tips on how to brew and to make a fresh start.
Mark


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## Grott (26/7/17)

Grott said:


> It is difficult sometimes to deal with a third party in attempting to provide advice and help. Is your brother in law able to join here so we could assist?


You can only try


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## TheWiggman (26/7/17)

At the end of the day if we're brewing beer we're brewing something to consume and enjoy. Why he's asking others whether or not it should be bottled baffles me a bit. Taste it and if it tastes good, bottle*. There's a pretty sure-fire certainty it won't but judging by the comments in this thread most of us would be tipping out Australia's 4th-highest selling beer. We don't need other people to tell us what we do or don't like, making your own beer is no different. 
The best advice OP's brother in law could receive is why leaving beer in the fermenter for a long time is bad and what best practice is. I'd also suggest the he has a taste to understand what an autolysed beer tastes like because understanding faults is an excellent way to determine how to prevent them occurring again.

*No.42-jsb - like MHB said look up autolysis, it's discussed a lot on this forum but that's what will have occurred in this beer.
If he's fermented in an HDPE container it's probably also started to oxidise. HDPE is not completely impenetrable to oxygen so oxygen will makes it's way into the beer especially over a few months.
As for infections - no home brew beer is completely sterile. The longer it's left, the greater the chances that some sort of infection has developed and at 7 months I'd agree with MHB and say it's a certainty. There doesn't need to be an ugly film on top for it to be infected, your taste will be the guide.


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## No.42-jsb (26/7/17)

Hey guys!

Thanks for the advice. While I've been home brewing for about 5 years the first 3 years I only brewed 2 different beers and it wasn't until I joined here in 2014 that I started to branch out into dry hopping, bulk priming etc. Only just added some steeped grains to a brew for the first time, pretty chuffed with myself actually. This question was something I hadn't come up against or read about so I wasn't sure what to suggest to my BIL. I knew you could lager for months but beyond that I had very little idea.

I did look up autolysis after MHB's post. You learn something new every day.

In regards to my BIL joining AHB I did suggest it when he started home brewing as I've always found it an excellent source of info. It's given me a lot of ideas and processes to improve my beer over the last few years.
No idea why he hasn't joined yet.

As to why he left it I have a feeling it was just a bit of laziness on his part. He's out in his shed enough fixing/installing stuff on his 4WD that he would have seen it sitting there every week and would have had time to bottle it. As I stated in my first post I did have a go at him about keeping better track of his brewing. I gave him a copy of my beer tracker spreadsheet when he started so he could track ingredients, costs, SG, ABV, SDs and a section for notes on each brew but he doesn't use it.

As for drinking VB after drinking home brew I have no explanation. lol. Each to their own I suppose.

On the bright side there's at least two people that understand what happens a bit better.

Suggested to him to taste it to understand what flavours come from leaving it for so long uncontrolled. Most likely he will tip it.


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## Droopy Brew (26/7/17)

No.42-jsb said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> 
> 
> As for drinking VB after drinking home brew I have no explanation. lol. Each to their own I suppose.



If this current batch is indicative of his brewing then I have half an idea. Probably makes the VB very palatable indeed.


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## manticle (26/7/17)

Rocker1986 said:


> Hangovers and headaches are mainly due to de-hydration by the alcohol... whether it's good, bad or indifferent doesn't matter.




Methanol/fusels and acetaldehyde are major contributors. Acetaldehyde is a pathway either to or from ethanol (can move both directions), methanol/fusels are alcohol types so in a way, there are good and bad alcohols (and byproducts and chemical pathways) and the bad can and will contribute.

My understanding is that some beverages will have a tendency to contain more or less of various types which is why some people will struggle after too many brandies or whiskies but be fine guzzling Vodka or gin. Badly made beer or poorly distilled spirits can both carry higher levels of fusel.


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## Danscraftbeer (27/7/17)

manticle said:


> Methanol/fusels and acetaldehyde are major contributors. Acetaldehyde is a pathway either to or from ethanol (can move both directions), methanol/fusels are alcohol types so in a way, there are good and bad alcohols (and byproducts and chemical pathways) and the bad can and will contribute.
> 
> My understanding is that some beverages will have a tendency to contain more or less of various types which is why some people will struggle after too many brandies or whiskies but be fine guzzling Vodka or gin. Badly made beer or poorly distilled spirits can both carry higher levels of fusel.


That's what I was thinking when I gave my vague post. Only because its on my mind with my latest beer on tap at the moment.
I got those _hot alcohol flavors_ this time when I never usually do. Recycled US-05 yeast. I didn't start it up, just used bottled slurry. This beer gives me an unusual hangover character even without drinking to an excess. I'm tipping that i will give in and tip this beer on the lawn.

Back to the topic : A reference from how to brew: http://howtobrew.com/book/section-4/is-my-beer-ruined/common-off-flavors
_
A sharp flavor that can be mild and pleasant or hot and bothersome. When an alcohol taste detracts from a beer's flavor it can usually be traced to one of two causes. The first problem is often too high a fermentation temperature. At temperatures above 80°F, yeast can produce too much of the higher weight fusel alcohols which have lower taste thresholds than ethanol. These alcohols taste harsh to the tongue, not as bad as cheap tequila, but bad nonetheless.

*Fusel alcohols can be produced by excessive amounts of yeast, or when the yeast sits too long on the trub. This is one reason to move the beer off of the hot and cold break when the beer is going to be spending a lot of time in the fermentor.*_


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## Chorba (11/8/17)

Bear with me here lads ... a newbie to home brewing. I have a batch of Morgans Canadian Light in the fermenter that's been there for 16 days, but I can't bottle for another 5 days or so.
Long story short, I don't have access to enough clean water to sterilise the bottles as the tanks have run dry and been filled with clear but sus creek water, which will be sterilised in a few days time. Hence it will be in the fermenter for about 3 weeks or so. From the above comments am I correct to assume this should not be a problem?


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## n87 (11/8/17)

3 weeks is unlikely to be a problem


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## Grott (11/8/17)

Try and keep temp below 20 degrees, below16 would be better.


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## Lionman (11/8/17)

Grott said:


> Try and keep temp below 20 degrees, below16 would be better.



Depends of what yeast you use. Some will go to sleep or be very sluggish under 16.

Kit yeasts - 18-20 is a good range.


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## Grott (11/8/17)

Yes, but I was referring to his leaving it in the fermenter from week 2 to end of week 3. Would help yeast etc settle out.


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## Sig Storm (27/8/17)

Hi guys I fermented a mangrove jacks blonde on the 1 august and didn't get a chance to bottle it till the 26 of August due to moving hose ect. It smelled and tasted great. Will it still go alright


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## manticle (27/8/17)

yes


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## Grott (27/8/17)

As manticle said. 

"due to moving hose" - Must have been a bloody big hose.  (we know you meant house, just got in first)


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## Sig Storm (27/8/17)




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## Dan_kville (29/8/17)

Chorba said:


> Bear with me here lads ... a newbie to home brewing. I have a batch of Morgans Canadian Light in the fermenter that's been there for 16 days, but I can't bottle for another 5 days or so.
> Long story short, I don't have access to enough clean water to sterilise the bottles as the tanks have run dry and been filled with clear but sus creek water, which will be sterilised in a few days time. Hence it will be in the fermenter for about 3 weeks or so. From the above comments am I correct to assume this should not be a problem?



If the bottles are clean, but not sterile, wrap some alfoil round the lid and then bake them. Put them in the oven when it's cold and heat it to 170. Once it gets there hold it for 1 hr. bottles stay sterile indefinitely if the top is covered securely.

Info taken from How To Brew: Everything you need to know


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## maclarkson (11/10/17)

Alternatively take your bottle and boil them in water for 20 mins


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## Chorba (11/10/17)

Dan_kville said:


> If the bottles are clean, but not sterile, wrap some alfoil round the lid and then bake them. Put them in the oven when it's cold and heat it to 170. Once it gets there hold it for 1 hr. bottles stay sterile indefinitely if the top is covered securely.
> 
> Info taken from How To Brew: Everything you need to know


 Thanks for the info. In this instance they were plastic "Coke" bottles. Which brings me to another issue .... How many times can you reuse them??


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## manticle (11/10/17)

Just not if they're PET.....


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## Dan_kville (20/10/17)

Chorba said:


> Thanks for the info. In this instance they were plastic "Coke" bottles. Which brings me to another issue .... How many times can you reuse them??


Not sure on that one sorry


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## Ben Hardman (20/10/17)

Droopy Brew said:


> If this current batch is indicative of his brewing then I have half an idea. Probably makes the VB very palatable indeed.



edit.


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