# Fire Extinguisher Co2 Bottle



## Justin (18/4/04)

Hi guys, there has been a bit of talk lately about kegging systems etc, so I thought I would post some info on my fire extinguisher CO2 bottle that's currently powering my system in the hope it might help some. I purchased the whole thing for $138 filled and each fill will cost me $35. So I'm stoked to have gotten around the rental side of things.

This info and topic was wandering about on the grumpy's forum and I have finally got around to taking some pictures of it to post here.

Anyway, my bottle is a 5kg Aluminium Chubb fire extinguisher. A chat with the bloke and a bit of playing around with my regulator and the types of extinguisher heads (valves) revealed that he could order me in a head to suit the fire extinguisher in which the regulator would screw straight on to the head unit with out the need to manufacture a brass adapter. The head has written on it an identifying code: SV50-C 

Obviously the dip tube has been removed so as to draw gas from the top of the liquid. My cylinder head that I have also has the added bonus of being able to reinsert the safety pin into the squeeze valve handle so that it can be left permanently on.

Anyway hope it helps some others out there trying to do the same. Look for someone who services fire extinguishers to help you out.

Cheers. JD


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## Justin (18/4/04)

And a close up of the head.


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## JSB (18/4/04)

Justin,

I note that Goliaths has just started stocking 2kg units, may look further into
this solution to get out of renting the bottle scenario....

JSB


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## Justin (18/4/04)

And just one last one of it in action.

I love my kegs. At the moment I have a Boag Premium Clone, quick and easy kit Coopers draught, English Special Bitter and a hefeweizen kegged. I had a few too many beverages last night and now my head hurts a bit.  

JD

I can fit three kegs and my fire extinguisher in my chest freezer at once. The picture obviously only shows two.


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## sosman (18/4/04)

Is there any difference in the quality of CO2? 

I can only speculate but somewhere, someone would know whether it is generally as good as food grade.


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## Justin (18/4/04)

I talked to the fire extinguisher guy and he said there was no difference. Batz also said once on the Grumpy's site that he used to work for CIG and that they used to sell the Medical/Food grade CO2, which was filled out of exactly the same tank as the industrial CO2 bottles, just with a higher price tag , so there was no difference.

I'm not worried about it. I have heard often enough that there is no difference and I believe it.

JD


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## Hoops (18/4/04)

AWESOME  
Great work JD. Great pics too.
Good to see people improvising, adapting and overcoming problems.
$138 sound cheap, I may look into a small bottle for a portable/backup bottle for my setup.

I have also been told that the industrial and food grade CO2 are the same gas. I was a bar manager for a short time and when I took over there were 2 different gas bottles - beer gas (food grade) and CO2 (industrial). I queried with CIG and they confirmed both are filled from the same container - same with O2 if anyone's that keen to aerate their wort.

Hoops


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## Justin (19/4/04)

Don't know if you'll find many O2 extinguishers   he he

JD


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## JSB (19/4/04)

Hi Justin,

I was wondering what brand of regulator you are using ???

Regards
JSB


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## JSB (19/4/04)

Justin,

I phoned Chubb and their price was $432 + GST for the 5kg ????? What the !!!!

Anything I may have missed ???

JSB


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## Justin (19/4/04)

Hi JSB, my reg is your average CIGWELD Carbon dioxide Beverage Regulator. Has two dials and goes up to about 400-500kPa on the outlet I think (I don't know exactly). Anyway, if your worried about your reg thread fitting - all CO2 bottles have the same thread so it is just your normal CO2 gas bottle thread on the regulator (and of course the corresponding one on the fire extinguisher).

OK. Yep, new extinguishers are pretty pricey. I phoned up a guy that services extinguishers and asked about getting an extinguisher with a faulty head, in which the cylinder is ok. Explain that you want them to remove the dip tube so you can use it as a CO2 bottle. Anyway just explain that you are setting up a kegging system for your homebrew and that should spark some interest from the blokes.

Most places will have cylinders lying around without heads on them, my cylinder cost me $40 (no head, no gas, just the plain aluminium cylinder). The guy then just played around with my regulator on the various tank heads he had lying about until he found one that fitted it. It turned out that he didn't have one that he could give me there and then so he ordered me in one (cost about $45 delivered). You don't need a dip tube for it (which would cost extra if you needed it).

So basically if you can find someone around your area that services and fills fire extinguishers get talking to them. It is all perfectly safe and legal to do, so that should be of no concern the the guys there. Ideally it would be best to get the extinguisher head that allows the reg to screw straight on but worst case senario you could get a fitter and turner to make up a brass adapter for you.

Cheers, Justin


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## devilsaltarboy (19/4/04)

Justin said:


> Hi JSB, my reg is your average CIGWELD Carbon dioxide Beverage Regulator. Has two dials and goes up to about 400-500kPa on the outlet I think (I don't know exactly). Anyway, if your worried about your reg thread fitting - all CO2 bottles have the same thread so it is just your normal CO2 gas bottle thread on the regulator (and of course the corresponding one on the fire extinguisher).


 Just a question, at uni where we use all sorts of regulators there is apparently a change over occurring not sure if it affects CO2 but it affects N2 and comp air I know that, apparently we either have to buy new regulators or buy adaptors. Any idea what this is about, has anyone with CO2 botttles been told otherwise


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## jayse (20/4/04)

I have heard about what your talking about.
that doesn't affect C02. but there are some bottles that use the same stuff which has caused some problems.
basically they don't won't different types of gas bottles with the same threads, they all should be different.
Don't quote me on this but this is what i have got for the conversations i have had so far.
iv'e rigged up a Fire job, if you put your fingers inside the empty container you'll see what seems to be a carbon build up on the outside walls.
i don't know if my co2 bottle has this but it did worry me with the fire job.
but in the end the fire putaoutarer does a fine top.
only thing i fill it up from my co2 bottle so can only put enough gas into it to pour 2/3 of a keg. 
heres a pick of my party gear.
its just a ball valve and a hose going to a cheap air regulator for the fire put out thingamjig

jayse


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## jayse (20/4/04)

close up of the reg.


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## JWB (20/4/04)

:huh: Just one question guys????

Do you get any kick back or arguements from CIG or where ever you get the fireputtaoutterers filled.

The local GIG guy in my town is.... to put it mildly ...A PRICK with a capital P..
I know his answer before I even front up with a extingusher that has been modified...

Where are you getting them filled???

JWB


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## Justin (20/4/04)

I get mine filled where I got it. The guy was more than happy to help me out throughout the whole deal. Even the point where it looked like I may have had to have an adapter made up, he offered to sort it out for me. Ring around as many blokes as you can, particularly any small independent blokes that service extinguishers. It sounds like you'll get no where with this bloke anyway so look elsewhere. It's not a problem in doing the conversion, the problem comes in getting someone who is willing to donate a bit of extra time and effort to help you out.

Anyway, your not modifying the extinguisher in anyway so it's just a normal fill, you don't do anything different. Secondly, unless you tell them that it has no diptube then they would never know that either and thirdly there is nothing illegal/unsafe/ or troublesome about filling or using an extinguisher with out a dip tube. It just becomes an every day old gas cylinder. Everything still complies to the industry standards.

Cheers and keep trying. It took me a bit of messing around but it's been worth it for me. Hey I just noted your in Tassie. Give me a pm and I'll give you the name of my bloke.

Justin


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## Linz (20/4/04)

Jayse,

Your bottle is an old fire extinguisher, but not a co2 extinguisher. Its an old dry chemical powder bottle( a Quell brand one at that). It would have had a powder that was propelled by nitrogen gas. The powder that is used is Baking soda in one instance(BE or ABE).
Those bottles are usually pressure tested to 2MPa and run a holding pressure of 700- 900 KPa. The CO2 bottles(extinguishers) are filled to a liquid weight, not pressure.


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## Boots (21/4/04)

Guys,
I was speaking to Dave at Goliath's the other day (while admiring his $80 CFC'er) and he has this all sorted out for us.

You buy a (smallish - didn't ask the size)brand new fire extinguisher off him for about $90 -100 - this will last for 5 years before you need to get it safety checked.

When you need a gas refill, you take it into Dave, and he arranges the refill for you. (I assume you could bypass him here and get it filled yourself).

He said, for the first lot of gas you keep the extinguisher upside down so that the dip tup is pulling the gas from the top, and at the first refill, Dave's contact will pull out the diptube for you so you can stand it upright.

I'll be going this path when I get sorted.

*usual disclaimer about no affiliation with the HBS etc etc etc*

cheers


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## Justin (21/4/04)

Yep. 2kg bottle. Not a bad deal. Guess 2kg of gas would last a little while if 5-6kg bottles last most folks the best part of a year. Not a bad option I guess.

JD


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## Bigfella (4/5/04)

hey jayse I was wondering how you fill your bottle.
I'm trying to work out a good portable system at the moment.


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## jayse (4/5/04)

I fill mine from my boc Co2 bottle up too as high as the regulator goes.


Jayse


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## Bigfella (4/5/04)

What sort of hose do you use between the two.


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## jayse (4/5/04)

Just beer line thats it.


Jayse


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## GOLIATH (5/5/04)

Yep,

The extinguishers are 2.0 KG and are Brand New. The upside down thing is so you don't waste the gas that's in it.

The only reason you bring the bottle to me is that the Fire Guy is working for a fire crowd and doesn't want to be inundated with individual queries.

There is no margin in this for me, might sound odd but it's true. If more brewers are getting into kegging cheaply, then more brewers will brew more often so I have more sales opportunities. 

I reckon my product is terrific and represents good value for the brewer, but it's up to your palate to decide that, not me.

Incidentally, ANY fire crowd should be able to assist with supply AND filling.

Regards
Dave Stewart
Principal
Goliath Brewing Adelaide
www.brewgoliath.com.au Now Secure SSL!


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## DaveR (23/5/04)

NO MORE RENT.

I just got my 5kg alum on fri in Bris, works great. It was fun finding a shop that would sell me a second-hand ext. Most people I called said that it was illegal to sell a second-hand ext. But in the end it worked out, I got mine for $100 filled & pressure tested and the reg just screws straight on. The guy also said that the people that they get their gas from have pub beer gas on there truck. And they will fill it anytime for $35.


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## Snow (24/5/04)

DaveR, that looks fantastic. I live in Brisbane and want to get one. Can you post the details, or PM me? I definitely want a 5kg bottle, which sounds better than the 2kg job, which would require filling every few months, by the sound of it.

Cheers - Snow


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## Jase (20/6/04)

Guys,

They look great. Does anyone know of anyone who sells these in Sydney.

About to start kegging, and would be good not to pay annual rental on a cylinder.

Cheers,
Jase


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## barney (29/1/05)

DaveR said:


> NO MORE RENT.
> 
> I just got my 5kg alum on fri in Bris, works great. It was fun finding a shop that would sell me a second-hand ext. Most people I called said that it was illegal to sell a second-hand ext. But in the end it worked out, I got mine for $100 filled & pressure tested and the reg just screws straight on. The guy also said that the people that they get their gas from have pub beer gas on there truck. And they will fill it anytime for $35.


 Just trawling some old threads because I just got myself a keg syetup, but need a gas cylinder. DaveR, where did you get your extinguisher from, and how much?


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## grunter (31/1/05)

jase

i have rung a few places in syd and found a place called "betta fire" in northern beaches.

i still need to sort out my kegs, reg and fridge but was planning on sorting and giving the guys there a call in the near future.

initial feedback from them was that it should be possible and they would prob need a bottle or two of homebrew 

let me know where you end up suceeding as i wont be too far behind 

hopefully


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## Ross (31/1/05)

DaveR

would appreciate contact as well, if it's not too much trouble...


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## barney (31/1/05)

Ross said:


> DaveR
> 
> would appreciate contact as well, if it's not too much trouble...


 Don't know if we'll get a reply from DaveR, he hasn't been on here for a few months, from what I can see. However, I think he posted in another thread that he got his from Blaze Fire at Loganholme. I just went there today. Sounds like they have had a few enquiries from home brewers lately. DaveR got a second hand cylinder and was lucky that the adapter fits the regulator. Steve at Blaze is the man to talk to. I bought a brand new 5kg extinguisher, dip tube removed, with gas, delivered. It will be ready in a couple of days. Steve says that the 2nd-hand extinguishers are quite hard to get a hold of, because only some of them have the right fittings.

My new extinguisher is ~$250, which is a lot, but I can't be farked with BOC (Bunch of C*nts?), and if I only use it for 2 years it will have paid itself off. Give Blaze a call if you're on the Southside.


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## Ross (31/1/05)

Thanks Barney - At that price I'll wait a while - My BOC bottle is still on my old Company's books - just keep my fingers crossed they don't inspect the yearly bill too closely...


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## andysbrew (17/2/05)

couldn't be happier, last bit of keg setup I needed was the co2 bottle. I went to a couple of extingusher refit guys and on my second try got a 3kg aluminium bottle with 5 years to go before testing, head put on to fit my regulator, dip tube cut off and filled!

all for 6 of my best home brew and will refill any time for a couple more!


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## Vlad the Pale Aler (17/2/05)

Have any fellow Pertherts been down the co2 extinguisher track, if so spill the beans, I have acquired a couple of fire putter outers.


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## JasonY (17/2/05)

Not yet vlad ut interested, from what I gather if you get the right head for them your reg should screw straight on. Once that's the case I don't think gettng it filled should be a drama. 

Im paided up with BOC until Dec so its on my list but not too high atm.


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## barfridge (17/2/05)

Yesterday I accosted the guy from firemain who was servicing our fire system at work. He couldn't give me any useful info, only that they got thier extinguishers from Wormald or Chubb.

Sounds like we need a man on the inside.


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## KillerRx4 (12/3/05)

Yesterday I was working out in the store ( I work for a wholesale industrial supplier ) & booked in some 5Kg Co2 ex extinguishers for stock.
Opened the boxes to have a geezer & was happy to find they have the right head to accept a C02 reg  

By reading this thread it seems you cah use these unmodified if ya have them upside down? Then when its empty remove the syphon tube before having it refilled?

Looks like they sell for around $200.


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## dallas (12/9/05)

Guys,

sorry to pull up an old thread, but I have been going down this path recently, and have come across a hurdle that I hope you guys can help me with... 

I was talking with a extingushser service place, and they directed me to a bloke who had apparently done this to a few bottles... 

He told me that all fire extinguisher handles leak when used, and so if you screw the regulator to the head directly, then if you leave the handle 'on', the CO2 leaks out of the handle and so no good? (apparently all extingushsers are like this due to a simple o-ring seal in the handle

have any of you guys experienced Co2 leakage around the extintguisher handle, particularly when gassing the keg for a few days?? 


thanks


D


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## Justin (12/9/05)

Well mine hasn't leaked so far as much as I'm aware. Mine is a Chubb 5kg aluminium with a Fireguard valve/head (the reg screws directly to it) and I have had it over a year and it's still not empty so I'm guessing no leak, although it is bloody close to empty. I expect to have to fill it in the next week or two. I should have weighted it before the fill and once filled so I know how much gas remains.

I guess that possibility of leaking might exist with some of them. I know the valves aren't really designed to be open/closed often but I have used mine heaps and still haven't had problems. I assume there are rebuild kits for the valves too, even if there aren't for what BOC or Air Liquide charge for bottle rental here I could still replace the valve every year and be ahead. So far so good though.

Cheers, Justin


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## Jye (12/9/05)

Hey dallas,

When I gas up with my extinguisher I never leave the handle locked down (I do it out of fear of the regulator flying off and the aftermath that could occur  ... I know its stupid) I gas up using the Ross Method and then when the serving pressure starts to drop give it a squirt of co2 to top it up. I used to gas up at 300 for a couple of days but I wouldnt leave the handle locked, I would just top the gas back up to 300 each morning and night.

I am still relatively new to kegging only having done about 8 but I have never had a problem with my extinguisher.

Cheers
Jye :beer:


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## dallas (12/9/05)

justin, do you run your valve/head in the on position permanetnly? 

I'm wondering if turning it on/off regularly may contribute to the leak issue? 


D


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## Uncle Fester (12/9/05)

All,
What is the legality of filling one of these? My Father in law (an ex fire fighter) may be able to get hold of an in-date decomissioned fire extinguisher. Is there any problem filling them? or do you have to do something "shifty", and go to a shonky operator?  
M


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## dallas (12/9/05)

Jye said:


> I gas up using the Ross Method and then when the serving pressure starts to drop give it a squirt of co2 to top it up. I used to gas up at 300 for a couple of days but I wouldnt leave the handle locked, I would just top the gas back up to 300 each morning and night.



can you give me any more info on the 'ross' method?? 

mate, your about 8 kegs ahead of me... i'm only just trying to start kegging, so everything's new to me! :huh: 


D


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## KillerRx4 (12/9/05)

Yeah I noticed when i first got mine it leaked out the valve under the handle. I took it back & the guy replaced the valve.
It was good for a week or 2 & then started to leak again so I figure its a common thing.

I dont leave it on anyway. For carbonating i give it 300kpa initially, next morning squirt it to 300 again, that arvo another squirt to 300, next morning again etc.

Around 2-3 days its done.

To dispense I give it around 50kpa & every few days it needs a small squirt to bump it back to 50.


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## Justin (12/9/05)

Nothing dodgey in filling them, you just have to find someone that is happy to do it for you. It's usually a case of the blokes can't be stuffed. Just the dip tube has to be removed (very simple operation and the bloke will do it in 2 mins), bottle has to be empty of course.

Dallas, I do both depending on what I'm doing and the mood I'm in and how many kegs are in the fridge. If there is enough room for the bottle in the fridge then I hook it up to the kegs and often leave it on. If it wont fit in there then I'll just top up the keg pressures as needed. I also do a lot of other stuff with it like purging kegs and pushing beer between kegs under CO2 pressure so my valve has been cycled on and off HEAPS. I probably should test it to see if it's leaking but it's serving me well in this way. Also leave it on when carbonating.

Where are you from Dallas? If your in Melbourne I'd talk to Grain and Grape, as they have a nice deal with Air liquide. If your elsewhere then your in the same boat as everyone else. Goliaths used to also sell a 1.5kg bottle if you wanted to go that way (still have to find somewhere to fill it though).

Cheers, Justin


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## Jye (12/9/05)

The Ross Method


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## dallas (12/9/05)

Justin said:


> Where are you from Dallas? If your in Melbourne I'd talk to Grain and Grape, as they have a nice deal with Air liquide. If your elsewhere then your in the same boat as everyone else. Goliaths used to also sell a 1.5kg bottle if you wanted to go that way (still have to find somewhere to fill it though).
> 
> Cheers, Justin
> [post="76568"][/post]​



thanks Justin... i'm in wollongong, so G&G is out of the question... a few mobs sell bottles for around the $250 (like this place: http://www.mykegonlegs.com.au/co2Cylinders.html) but again, can pick up a fire ext. for sub $150 filled, so still persuing this option... either way there's no way i'm renting... :angry: 

at this stage dunno what option to go with... when i finish my bar reno's in about 2-3 wks, i'll have hopefully decided on what option to go with and take the plunge... a nice keg system should defo help me christen the bar! :chug: :beer: 


D


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## Linz (12/9/05)

Dallas,

There is a new operator on the market with and exchange program. You purchase a 9kg(approx) for $300 and take it back to HBS and swap. Saw this at Hop to it at Botany. I think the mob was called "my keg on legs"???
2ndly if the spindle of the extinguisher valve is well lubricated on removal of the dip tube/spear and again at pressure testing the issue of leaking "should" be nullified.


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## Thunderlips (13/9/05)

Jye said:


> I gas up using the Ross Method
> [post="76560"][/post]​



The Ross Method.
I wonder if this will make it into a chapter in some new home brew book?


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## dallas (13/9/05)

Linz said:


> Dallas,
> 
> There is a new operator on the market with and exchange program. You purchase a 9kg(approx) for $300 and take it back to HBS and swap. Saw this at Hop to it at Botany. I think the mob was called "my keg on legs"???
> 2ndly if the spindle of the extinguisher valve is well lubricated on removal of the dip tube/spear and again at pressure testing the issue of leaking "should" be nullified.
> [post="76693"][/post]​



thanks linz... ya, actually put up their link in my previous post!... they are my fall back position if I can't convince myself to get a exting... i'm 90% sold on it, except the leaking issue of it... prob just an overcautious keggine newbie! :huh: 

mmm.... So your saying that if I get the handle components well lubricated then it shouldn't leak? have you tried this and have been successfull??


D


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## Uncle Fester (13/9/05)

Justin said:


> a bit of playing around with my regulator and the types of extinguisher heads (valves) revealed that he could order me in a head to suit the fire extinguisher in which the regulator would screw straight on to the head unit with out the need to manufacture a brass adapter. The head has written on it an identifying code: SV50-C
> 
> [post="17051"][/post]​




Justin,
What are the relative merits of connecting your reg to the head of the extinguisher (and the apparent possibility of the handle leaking), versus replacing the whole assembly with a needle valve? Would this now make the bottle hard to fill?

Needle valve for fire extinguisher

For $30, it would seem to me that the whole shebang is now just like a normal bottle and reg. Am I looking at this too simplistically?

M


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## Justin (13/9/05)

Hi M,

When I took my reg into the fire extinguisher place to discuss what I wanted to do and to find a bottle (he refurbishes them) the guy just wandered around testing the fit of the reg to the different bottles and valves he had around the work shop. One fit directly on to a Fireguard brand head/valve. He didn't know the history or functionality of the valve he found so suggested he order me in a brand new one so I was starting fresh. I think the head cost about $40-$50, 5kg aluminium bottle was about the same and then some money for the CO2 (can't remember the exact price).

Now, as for the needle valve idea that may or may not work. I have no doubts the idea itself is fine but if you've got a fire extinguisher bloke that is even remotely hesitant about making a CO2 bottle out of a fire extinguisher for you then I guarantee he will not fill a bottle with some strange valve tacked onto it. You would have to ask sosman how he went with getting this bottle filled, I suspect everyones chances of getting it filled will be different. But if the right extinguisher head exists that accepts a reg directly why would you want to mess around fitting needle valves etc, as I said mine works flawlessly. If it ever leaks and I have to replace it I'm not too fussed to be honest but I don't expect it to leak. I suggest you talk to a couple of different fire extinguisher blokes, perhaps one will be happy to fit this kind of valve to a bottle-if he is then your set-if not he might have another idea to help. You really have to talk to them to see what they are willing to do for you. A six pack of your best homebrew can be a nice gift with very persuassive abilities. Never underestimate the connection between man and beer :beer: .

Edit: removed unnecessary photos. If you want to see them go to the first post of this thread.


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## ausdb (13/9/05)

> What are the relative merits of connecting your reg to the head of the extinguisher (and the apparent possibility of the handle leaking), versus replacing the whole assembly with a needle valve? Would this now make the bottle hard to fill?
> 
> Needle valve for fire extinguisher
> 
> For $30, it would seem to me that the whole shebang is now just like a normal bottle and reg. Am I looking at this too simplistically?



Take this page with a BIG grain of salt, the author seems to have forgotten that ALL valves on pressure cylinders must have some sort of relief valve/burst disc built in to them. His needle valve idea conveniently eliminates this and now turns the cylinder into a hydrostatic bomb. I have contacted him in the past suggesting that his info is not really in the best interest of the general public but it still there

There is no way an extinguisher company would fill a cylinder fitted with a valve like he has done.

Cheers ausdb


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## Uncle Fester (13/9/05)

Justin,
I have already sourced a local fire extinguisher place that also fills standard CO2 bottles. They may want to pressure test the beastie if it is close to date, but after that, they see no problem with the unit being treated as a standard bottle. I assume that the needle valve would for all intents and purposes simulate the neck fitting for a standard CO2 bottle.

For the $20.00 that they ask for a pressure test, I may bite the bullet, and get 6 years worth of insuance with the first fill anyway.

Thanks,

M


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## Justin (13/9/05)

He He. I went back to the first post to read what's been said so far and low and behold, I wrote this post with pics  Whoops.

Forget the needle valve idea as I suggested above, Ausdb just nailed the cruncher on that idea. I didn't pick up on it but with the needle valve you have NO WAY of bleeding off while filling the bottle. In my photos of my cylinder head you can see the bleed valve/screw at the back under the handle. You've got to have one of these for a proper CO2 fill or you wont end up with much CO2.

What they MAY be able to do is fit a "conventional" CO2 bottle valve to your extinguisher bottle but I have looked closely at the two and they don't appear to be compatible in the thread diameter that screws into the bottle neck (but perhaps there is a wide selection of different threads on conventional CO2 bottle valves, so perhaps they can get one to fit).

Best take the Extinguisher guys advice, not ours. Seems like you've already got it sorted.

Cheers, Justin


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## Boots (13/9/05)

My extinguisher leaks a lot and I have to give the handle a few squirts to get it to stop. I never leave it on constantly, only giving it a burst to bring the keg back up to pressure.

It's progressed to the point now where it leaks almost all the time, but it behaves really strangely ... i.e. if i leave teh reg at say 15psi, the cylinder keeps the pressure (the leak goes through the reg rather than through the handle pin), and once the keg is at pressure it doesn't leak. If i turn the reg off, it leaks out around the pin.

The mob i bought the cylinder from have replaced the pin / valve assembly twice now so it might just be time for a new head.


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## MAH (13/9/05)

I must be lucky. I haven't had any leaks with my fire extinguisher. I usually force carbonate using the rocking method, but while I'm serving I just depress the handle and put the pin in to keep it open. I leave it on like this for hours at a time no worries, and have even forgot about it and not turned it off for a couple of days. 

Cheers
MAH


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## ausdb (13/9/05)

Justin said:


> Forget the needle valve idea as I suggested above, Ausdb just nailed the cruncher on that idea. I didn't pick up on it but with the needle valve you have NO WAY of bleeding off while filling the bottle. In my photos of my cylinder head you can see the bleed valve/screw at the back under the handle. You've got to have one of these for a proper CO2 fill or you wont end up with much CO2.



Justin, I'm not so worried about a bleed valve. Its the lack of safety relief which is downright foolish. All of the AL/BOC CO2 botttles dont have a bleed valve but they do have something in them that will vent pressure safely if the bottle gets overpressured in any way. Even CO2 extinguisher bottles have a relief valve/burst valve built into the handle/valve

Plus you dont need a bleed valve to fill a cylinder

Cheers ausdb


----------



## Justin (14/9/05)

Cool banana's Ausdb if that's how it is then that's how it is, I'm no gas expert. I was of the understanding that in order to fill a bottle with "liquid" gas you needed to bleed the head space of gas in the receiving vessel to lower the pressure slightly allowing liquid to flow into the new vessel and fill from the bottom up. I didn't think you could just crank up the pressure and force it in like you do with a Scuba tank or compressed air tank. The reason behind this was because you can't compress a liquid and while transfering if you keep it cold enough with pressure on top of the liquid it remained a in liquid state thus giving you a larger fill.

This is how they do LPG cylinders and CO2 cyclinders as far as I'm aware. However, I could be wrong. It really is of little importance how they do it anyway, as long as my bottle gets filled and I can dispense my beer.

FWIW I picked up a new soda stream bottle the other day (the 330g alu), traded in the old steel bottle-Kmart wouldn't exchange the old steel bottle so I had to try elsewhere and eventually got it swapped over to a new bottle. It's doesn't appear to have a bleed off screw either like the old steel ones did. Portable 3 gallon kegs are go with my second reg and Hoops soda stream adapter.

Cheers, Justin


----------



## Snow (14/9/05)

MAH said:


> I must be lucky. I haven't had any leaks with my fire extinguisher. I usually force carbonate using the rocking method, but while I'm serving I just depress the handle and put the pin in to keep it open. I leave it on like this for hours at a time no worries, and have even forgot about it and not turned it off for a couple of days.
> 
> Cheers
> MAH
> [post="76754"][/post]​



I too haven't had any leaks from my extinguisher (...yet...touch wood :unsure: ) and in fact, I leave it on all the time, with my kegs sitting at pouring pressure. I guess I'm a bit concerned that the lever on the head is not designed to be turned on and off regularly, and that constant working of the lever might shorten its life span considerably.

- Snow


----------



## ausdb (14/9/05)

Justin said:


> Cool banana's Ausdb if that's how it is then that's how it is, I'm no gas expert. I was of the understanding that in order to fill a bottle with "liquid" gas you needed to bleed the head space of gas in the receiving vessel to lower the pressure slightly allowing liquid to flow into the new vessel and fill from the bottom up.
> 
> FWIW I picked up a new soda stream bottle the other day (the 330g alu), traded in the old steel bottle-Kmart wouldn't exchange the old steel bottle so I had to try elsewhere and eventually got it swapped over to a new bottle. It's doesn't appear to have a bleed off screw either like the old steel ones did. Portable 3 gallon kegs are go with my second reg and Hoops soda stream adapter.
> [post="77008"][/post]​



No worries Justin,

I'm not sure exactly how to do the big ones, Batz will pipe in possibly. To fill a new sodastream or paintball cyl you need a tee in the filling line which has a valve on it. You open the filling cylinder squirt a blast of CO2 in to the one to be filled. Close the valve on the main cylinder, crack the valve on the tee to let the CO2 out that you just blew in and it chills the bottle instantly. Close the tee valve and then quickly open the fill cylinder valve and fill your cylinder by weight. 

If you get the receiving cylinder cold enough you can just fill by pressure differential. We used to decant refrigerant gases at work this way all the time as you don't want to be venting refrigerant away to waste all the time. 1 it upsets the environmental types and 2 refrigerants are expensive!

I filled a steel sodastream the same way from a fire extinguisher last week with GL's dodgy fitting (which doesnt have the tee'd off valve, we decided this needs to be added for the new ones). I blew in a shot of CO2 from the extinguisher, cracked the bleed valve to let it out and the bottle got nice and cold. Nipped up the bleed valve and then let a nicely timed blast of CO2 into the sodastream from the extinguisher. As his fitting is solid copper tubing we couldnt weigh it but I put it on a set of scales after filling and had managed to get exactly 250g into it!


----------



## Joel (8/12/05)

Hi all Fire Extinguisher gas bottle Guru's,

I've just got my aquisitive hands on a 3.5kg Chubb type CO2 fire extinguisher.


----------



## Joel (8/12/05)

The end of my post got cut off...

Pressure tested August 2005, and only recently used.

What I want to know is can you get an adapter to get this to fit onto a standard Harris 601, or is it easier/better/less expensive to get one of those SV50-C heads that were mentioned at the start of this thread?

Just have to take out the dip tube...


----------



## KillerRx4 (8/12/05)

Do you have your reg? Have you tried it on?

You might find it fits without any modification.


----------



## Batz (8/12/05)

Joel said:


> Hi all Fire Extinguisher gas bottle Guru's,
> 
> I've just got my aquisitive hands on a 3.5kg Chubb type CO2 fire extinguisher.
> [post="96439"][/post]​



Looks like if you screw out that hose you maybe left with a female thread.
You will need to get the correct threaded nipple to fit both the bottle and the reg. this will probley be some type of reducing nipple.Just take it to your local extinguisher place with the reg. 
Sometimes they are helpful.

Batz


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## Uncle Fester (8/12/05)

There are 2 types of trigger mechanism for a 3.5 kilo bottle.

One fits a Harris reg straight on, the other requires an adaptor.

I am fortunate to have found a really handy fire extinguisher bloke. He sold me the right trigger (new) for $26.00. I guess that would have been comparable to a brass adaptor anyway.


Works a treat.


M


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## Joel (8/12/05)

So, the question now becomes can anyone recommend a fire extinguisher place that is receptive to homebrewers in distress in either Adelaide or Newcastle (moving to NSW in the new year).


----------



## halfinch (8/12/05)

howdy Joel,
batz is spot on . just unscrew hose and take it and your reg to a plumber/gas fitter, machinery parts shop even a mechanic and say i want something to join this (reg) to where this (hose) came from. I have a couple of the same bottles and did just this. If these guys dont have something they will probably tell you exact size and where to get it . should only cost a few bucks tops..

cheers halfinch.


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## Hillbilly (8/12/05)

You have three choices:

* Buy or get an adaptor machined to fit the regulator and use it upside down cost you about.
* If it has just been used anyway discharge it in full get a fire exinguisher mob to take off the trigger assy and remove the dip tube, reassemble and refill + adaptor.
* Discharge remove trigger assy & dip tube and replace with a C02 shut off valve.

Hillbilly


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## Uncle Fester (11/12/05)

To all who store their CO2 bottles in the fridge...

Noticed that when I stored my (unused) extinguisher in the fridge, the indicated high side pressure dropped from 1000 PSI to about 850.

Has anyone else noticed this? Only reason I ask, is that I have used this bottle to carbonate 1 keg via the Ross method, and it has maybe half dispensed it.

I would not have expected to see the high side pressure move at all for quite a few kegs yet (3.5 Kilo bottle)

Could the pressure inside the bottle drop as temp drops?
Could the reg change it's calibration with such a temp decrease?
Could I have been given a dud fill, and the bottle is actually close to being empty?


How long do the gurus get out of their extinguishers?


I have left the bottle connected, but with the trigger off, and reg wound down.

The low side has maintained a pressure of between 10-15 PSI.

Am I doing anything Numpty?


As always, advice welcomed...

M


----------



## vh_202 (11/12/05)

well yeah a decrease in temperature will result in a decrease in pressure as the gas will become denser. its quite likely that the gas bottle would show a drop in pressure


----------



## Guest Lurker (11/12/05)

The universal gas law is PV=nRT
For a fixed amount of gas molecules, pressure is indirectly proportional to volume (double the volume of the cylinder, halve the pressure).
Pressure and volume are directly proportional to temperature - double the temperature double the pressure.

Temperature is measured in Kelvin.
Room temp is about 298 Kelvin.
Your fridge is at about 277 Kelvin.

If the volume of headspace and number of molecules in the head space stayed the same, then the pressure change in the bottle by putting it in the fridge would be:

Pressure = 1000psi times 277K/298K
=930 PSI

You saw a bigger drop than that which I guess relates to an additional effect of less gas molecules, since at a cooler temp a few more gas molecules in the head space decided to rejoin the liquid.

Something like that anyway.


----------



## Uncle Fester (11/12/05)

Ok.... Then I guess what your'e trying to tell me, is that it is not too far out of the ordinary.

Phew! :huh: 

I guess the proof in the pudding thing will be the number of kegs I get to carbonate and push out before it actually runs dry....

Then I will reconsider getting a 5kg or not..... (and maybe a 2kg for the portable option...)

Thanks GL

Ps: I once knew all of those boyle's ish formulae, but its been well over 20 years since I have had to apply them. :beerbang: 

M


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## Linz (11/12/05)

mandrakar said:


> Then I will reconsider getting a 5kg or not..... (and maybe a 2kg for the portable option...)
> 
> [post="97006"][/post]​




Thats what I run....A 5kg for the keg fridge(freezer actually) and a 2kg for the party jobbie...and a few 3.5's for in-between times....


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## spycatcher (20/3/06)

Gday all first post here.I am going to brunie to live (just came back ) I am trying to set a keg system up .I cannot hire or buy a CO2 keg in Brunei .Would any be able to tell me where I can get a extinguisher in brisbane that can be set up for brewing.As brunei is a dry country it wont look to suspiciious if I am just filling up a fire extinguisher lol. B) B) B) java script:emoticon('B)')
smilie


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## Kiwi_Greg (20/3/06)

Give Steve at Blaze Fire Protection Loganholme a ring 3806 1000. He has helped other Brewers out


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## spycatcher (20/3/06)

Kiwi_Greg said:


> Give Steve at Blaze Fire Protection Loganholme a ring 3806 1000. He has helped other Brewers out
> [post="115390"][/post]​


Thanks I will


----------



## barney (20/3/06)

spycatcher said:


> Kiwi_Greg said:
> 
> 
> > Give Steve at Blaze Fire Protection Loganholme a ring 3806 1000. He has helped other Brewers out
> ...



I got my extinguisher from Steve, good job too. It's almost time to refill, can you take it back to Steve, or is there another place closer to the city that will refill extinguishers?


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## deadly (20/3/06)

Are you planning to get a pressure vessel on plane?


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## spycatcher (20/3/06)

No going by esa freight I work in airline industry and Know dg rules


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## Jye (23/3/06)

Its time to get my 3.5kg extinguisher filled and gave Blaze a call only to be told it would cost $65 :blink: (I wasnt talking to Steve) Is this the normal price? Has anyone found somewhere cheaper in Brisbane?

Cheers
Jye :beer:


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## Uncle Fester (23/3/06)

Jye said:


> Its time to get my 3.5kg extinguisher filled and gave Blaze a call only to be told it would cost $65 :blink: (I wasnt talking to Steve) Is this the normal price? Has anyone found somewhere cheaper in Brisbane?
> 
> Cheers
> Jye :beer:
> [post="115883"][/post]​




Jye,

For $50 you could send the bottle here to Canberra, and I would get my local bloke to fill it for the $14 that he asks for and you would the $1 better off!

I will ask my fire protection guy here if he has any affiliation in Brizzy.

BTW while you are calling your fire guy a bandit, my contact quoted me a 5kg reconditioned, re-tested and stamped, filled bottle, with the correct nozzle for a Harris 601 for (about) $65.00 I am running a 3.5, but may upgrade at some stage.


M


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## Steve (23/3/06)

Jeez mandraker - I might be PM'ing you soon to get me one too. Thats a bargain...how long does the 3.5kg one last you?
Cheers
Steve


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## Fingerlickin_B (23/3/06)

mandrakar said:


> get my local bloke to fill it for the $14 that he asks for



Holy sh*t that's cheap!

I'll be in touch when my smaller "food grade" cylinder runs out! :beer: 

PZ.


----------



## Jye (23/3/06)

> I will ask my fire protection guy here if he has any affiliation in Brizzy.



Cheers mandrakar, that would be great :beerbang: 

I managed to pick mine up for $100 filled, tested and with the correct fitting with a back door deal at Cubb... I was happy with the price until you came along


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## Joel (23/3/06)

Anyone know of a good fire extinguisher place in the Newcastle area that I can take my 3.5kg to?


----------



## Uncle Fester (23/3/06)

Steve said:


> Jeez mandraker - I might be PM'ing you soon to get me one too. Thats a bargain...how long does the 3.5kg one last you?
> Cheers
> Steve
> [post="115885"][/post]​




I have done about 10 kegs out of it so far, but I use a brumby tap, directly connected to a liquid out connector. As a result, I have to de-gas to about half a psi to dispense, and then crank it back up to 10 after I finish. Gets really wasteful when the keg is getting toward being empty, and you only draw a couple of beers. Having said that, it still is going strong, and if it runs out now, then it has cost me $1.50 a keg. Will be probably 3 or 4 times more efficient when I have a balanced system into proper font/taps.



M


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## Fingerlickin_B (23/3/06)

Hey Man, 

You can run a balanced system with the setup you have...in fact I did so for about 5 months before door-mounting my taps  

I tried using the pressure calcs available online, but they don't seem to work with this setup. 

You can call me and we'll get it working right for you :beer: 

PZ.


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## ozbloke (25/11/06)

Hi All,

I am new to this site so sorry if post is a bit screwy. I found the following site about CO2 and how it behaves. It also has information about thread sizes and what fits what and where to get adapters, screw valves and so on. (http://www.teamonslaught.fsnet.co.uk/co2_info.htm)

My interest is in finding out how I can get a scuba tank re valved and re tested as a high pressure (liquid) co2 container. I want it for home brewing, refilling soda stream and runing on my MIG welder! Not much to ask!? Anyone done such a thing?

Cheers to all, Ozbloke


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## Phrak (25/11/06)

Hi OzBloke, welcome to AHB 

That's a fantastic link to the CO2 info you put up there. It's answered a lot of my own questions as well. Cheers for that! 

I've been doing a little bit of research about the SCUBA tank idea as well. Over the last couple of months I've been collecting all sorts of pressure cylinders, mainly CO2 extinguishers of varying sizes, but I scored a large aluminium SCUBA tank as well.

I couldn't find any info on re-valving one, or anyone that has done it before either, but that's not to say it can't be done.

The bigger question is if you can get the SCUBA tank refilled with CO2 or not. I guess if you can decant the CO2 on your own, you'll be ok, but some of the gas suppliers can be a bit narky about non-standard bottles.

Please let us know what you find.
Regards,
Tim.


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## MHB (25/11/06)

There is a reason for that Phark it's called 

Duty of care

Funny, I have a customer in the shop right now who is an engineer; he was just saying that where he works they practice saying "Your Honour" after things, like we thought it would be OK "Your Honour".

If you arent comfortable explaining what you choose to do to a judge dont do it.

In my experience the same mind-set that can't bring it self to spend $300 or so on a safe approved pressure vessel, would sue at the drop of a hat, or any other minor disaster.

I am a refiller; I can't expose my business, my staff or my self to the risk, just so you can save a couple of dollars.

MHB


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## crozdog (25/11/06)

ozbloke said:


> My interest is in finding out how I can get a scuba tank re valved and re tested as a high pressure (liquid) co2 container. I want it for home brewing, refilling soda stream and runing on my MIG welder! Not much to ask!? Anyone done such a thing?
> 
> Cheers to all, Ozbloke



Oz, I wouldn't bother. Fire extinguishers are readily available & quite cheap. Even off the shelf cylinders such as My keg on legs are inexpensive when compared to the BOC alternative.

You need to consider the risk vs reward & amount of effort involved. I consider rethreading & retesting a scuba tank to be something that would require a fair amount of effort (& dollars) for a minimal return considering the risk you pose to yourself & others. This is especially so when you consider the alternatives available using pressure vessles which have been specifically designed & tested for the purpose of holding liquid CO2.

You should be able to do all of the things you list with a fire extinguisher / commercial bottle & a regulator safely without the hassle, time, effort, expense & uncertainty that surrounds converting a scuba tank.

One thing I learnt when I did my trade was "just because something is possible, doesn't mean that you should do it". I believe that premis is very apt here.

Thanks for the link.

Beers Crozdog


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## Screwtop (25/11/06)

MHB said:


> There is a reason for that Phark it's called
> 
> Duty of care
> 
> ...



Didn't think he asked you to fill it for him, tell your customers, not the forum.


----------



## MHB (25/11/06)

Screwtop
Phrak commented that some refillers were "getting a bit narky about non standard bottles".

I was simply giving a reason.
I thought that was obvious 


MHB


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## Screwtop (25/11/06)

MHB said:


> Screwtop
> Phrak commented that some refillers were "getting a bit narky about non standard bottles".
> 
> I was simply giving a reason.
> ...



I know that's your reason for not doing it MHB, I just get a serious case of the shits with this mentality. Check out your liability, ask questions of your legal advisor, check your risk exposure, you'll get a real surprise! You may find you'll have to install protective refill cages and all sorts of other equipment, maybe staff should wear blast jackets and face masks while refilling cylinders, if you want to be at least less than 50% responsible for anything happening on your premises. Look, on second thoughts why not stop refilling the bloody things altogether! was that the sky falling?

Any container under pressure can explode, within test or not, the test date is an indicative period for containers exposed to what could be considered reasonable storage environments. You'll still end up in court and you will still have legal costs. And the employee/person injured will still be injured, cylinder in test or not. No insurance company is going to let you off because of a date on a gas bottle, just go up against one, they'll find all sorts of other contributing factors, all of which will be completely your fault.

If someone doesn't want to fill a dreaded "non-standard" container then that's fine with me, I'll add him to the narks list and continue looking, we all understand why some won't do it, but some will, and that's what he's looking for. Thats it! Got it!

Add MHB to the Nark list Phrak


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## Batz (25/11/06)

Very helpful dude over our way Screwtop.will fill fire extinguishers and other bottles as well,also sells the extinguishers dip tude removed. :super: 

Batz


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## browndog (25/11/06)

Well said Mike,
unfortunately our great aussie culture has caught up with the yanks in the " it's not my fault" dept. When I buggered my grain mill rollers I was too embarassed to take them back to my mate that made them. I had them re-knurled by another mate and went to the local platers to get them replated. "What are they for?" I was asked... to make beer I said. They then refused to do it saying what if someone got some of the plating in their beer" I just stood there open mouthed thinking what is wrong with these wankers and what sort of a world is my boy going to grow up in.

cheers

Browndog


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## Screwtop (25/11/06)

Batz said:


> Very helpful dude over our way Screwtop.will fill fire extinguishers and other bottles as well,also sells the extinguishers dip tude removed. :super:
> 
> Batz




Maybe we should organise a B___ B__


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## crundle (6/9/07)

Hi all, first time poster, only found this website while looking for someone to make an adaptor for a Cornelius regulator to fit a refilled fire extinguisher for my new keg setup (long time plastic bottle beermaker before that).

For anyone in Adelaide who is after 5kg fire extinguishers, call Ken at Ceasefire on 0408 676 720 and he will be happy to tee it up for you - very helpful people there.

Cost me $120 for the extinguisher, filled up, and costs about $25 for each refill

I still need to find an adaptor though as the extinguisher has some thread much smaller than the Cornelius regulator. I know bugger all about the different types of threads, so will be taking both units along with me to the local gas/plumbing supplier and hoping this is something they stock.

If I am successful, I will post up later where to get them from.

Got myself a Corona clone going atm, will be gassing her up on Saturday for my birthday on Sunday, hence the urgency of finding an adaptor.

Hope this is useful to anyone in Adelaide who is after one of these units, maybe have a sticky put up with suppliers of them in each state?

Crundle


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## crundle (6/9/07)

OK, after spending several hours driving around trying to find an adapter for my CO2 bottle to the regulator, I have found nothing suitable. I went to BOC, Pirtek (gas and hydraulic fittings) and various hardware and plumbing suppliers. I will have to get an adapter machined up at work by one of our fitters (bet this will cost me at least a bottle of bourbon).

The guy who I bought the cylinder off of did mention that fire extinguishers are meant to sit there NOT being used, hence why it is better to only use it to gas when needed, not leave it on all the time.

Hoping this gets done before Sunday.....

Crundle


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## KGB (7/9/07)

I'd say a bottle of bourbon is not too bad for a custom machined adaptor. 
Alternatively I remember reading (maybe it was this thread...?) that the head can be changed on the cylinder, maybe see if Ken can sort you out with that.

Just a note - if your extinguisher hasn't been modified and still has the dip tube in it, its a good idea to mount it upside down so it draws gas, rather than liquid, CO2 into your req.


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## youngy (8/9/07)

Crundle,

Cheers for the info will give Ken at Ceasefire a call to fill up a 5kg I got given.

Also let us know about the adapter, because I am going to have to find one also for a MicroMatic regulator here in Adelaide.

Youngy


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## crundle (8/9/07)

KGB - I will check with Ken to be sure if the tube has been removed, but others at work who use them have them upright, so I am assuming (and I know that it is dangerous to ever assume anything!) that the tube has been removed. The cylinder is full of gas atm, so I will get the converter made up rather than trying to get a new head and then will be set, just a bit of a headache getting it done in the timeframe I wanted to, but not much I can do about that.

Youngy - The regulator I got for my setup came from ebay from a seller called KegConnections, great price but I am not sure what brand it is, comes from China (doesn't everything these days?), conforms to specifications OK, but I think the brand is UL. 

Just not sure what the thread actually is on the regulator or the cylinder, but will take into work tonight and get the fitters there to measure it up for me so I can post what they are, might be of use to the next person who gets the same setup as mine.

Going to chill my beer in the fridge today to get it ready in case the adapter gets made in time - fingers crossed!

Cheers for the feedback everyone, this forum looks amazing for the knowledge in it - can't believe I have only just come across it

Crundle


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## crundle (9/9/07)

The fitters have machined me an adaptor to connect my regulator to the cylinder, looks like I will be enjoying my first ever kegged beer when I get home from work tonight and get some sleep.

Crundle


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## crundle (9/9/07)

Well, did a quick gas up of the keg and it worked a treat, the beer came out a bit flat though, but I will learn to judge the pressure better as I go along. Going to take a bit of practice to get the beer pulling right, going to have many drinks learning the ropes.

BTW, it seems the thread in the CO2 cylinder is 1/4" BSP for what it is worth.

Crundle


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## Barramundi (10/9/07)

given the high working pressures of a co2 bottle and the fact that they can penetrate a brick wall and kill you on the other side of it when they do explode for whatever reason , i myself would be taking every precaution available to make sure i have a 'safe' cylinder even at the expense of saving a few dollars ... i dont want to be woken in the middle of the night with a rocket flying about my garage on a path of destruction for the sake of a minimal upfront saving ...

as crozdog said , just becoz it can happen doesnt mean it should happen ....


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## frednerk99 (2/10/07)

"For anyone in Adelaide who is after 5kg fire extinguishers, call Ken at Ceasefire on 0408 676 720 and he will be happy to tee it up for you - very helpful people there. Cost me $120 for the extinguisher, filled up, and costs about $25 for each refill"

Man this is excellent, I spoke to Steve from the above number and they have the fire extinguisher type for $125 filled and $25 for each fill after that. They remove the syphon tube and say that the Brass fitting to attach the regulator can be purchased form Bunnings.

What I really wanted was somewhere to get a new Co2 tank filled that I am buying form the states, they said they would fill it no problems. Tank 5 lb, regulator, tap, fittings and hoses for around $150 of ebay. I was going to buy 4 of these. I am also buying 100 corny softdrink kegs if anyone is interested, they land here in australia in around 2 months. I sould be able to sell them for around $50-60 ea plus postage. They are in "like" new condition new seals etc.

On another topic of filtering, I was going to use a 30 micron inline filter "pura tap like" you can get these of ebay AU for around $80 with a twin filter. My plan was to put the fresh dirty beer in a corny keg with the output line passing through the filter then into anthother corny keg. then using Co2 on the first keg to push the beer through the filter and into the clean keg. I have not found anything on filtering but was wondering what was the best way? Has anyone tried this?

Good job lads. It is excellent to brew good beers, this will take our 80l fortnight brews to a new level. Ps I am in Adelaide


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## KGB (2/10/07)

Your transfer method shouyld work well, and if I'me reading it correctly you should even be able to filter carbonated beer this way. There is an airlocked thread around here on keg-to-keg transfer that describes it, basically you are doing the same but with a filter in between, right?


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## Cracka (2/10/07)

MrCoward said:


> "For anyone in Adelaide who is after 5kg fire extinguishers, call Ken at Ceasefire on 0408 676 720 and he will be happy to tee it up for you - very helpful people there. Cost me $120 for the extinguisher, filled up, and costs about $25 for each refill"
> 
> Man this is excellent, I spoke to Steve from the above number and they have the fire extinguisher type for $125 filled and $25 for each fill after that. They remove the syphon tube and say that the Brass fitting to attach the regulator can be purchased form Bunnings.
> 
> ...






Always interested in cheap corny keg


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## pokolbinguy (2/10/07)

MrCoward said:


> "For anyone in Adelaide who is after 5kg fire extinguishers, call Ken at Ceasefire on 0408 676 720 and he will be happy to tee it up for you - very helpful people there. Cost me $120 for the extinguisher, filled up, and costs about $25 for each refill"
> 
> Man this is excellent, I spoke to Steve from the above number and they have the fire extinguisher type for $125 filled and $25 for each fill after that. They remove the syphon tube and say that the Brass fitting to attach the regulator can be purchased form Bunnings.
> 
> ...






Cracka said:


> Always interested in cheap corny keg




Same here...

Pok


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## turto77 (2/10/07)

MrCoward said:


> "For anyone in Adelaide who is after 5kg fire extinguishers, call Ken at Ceasefire on 0408 676 720 and he will be happy to tee it up for you - very helpful people there. Cost me $120 for the extinguisher, filled up, and costs about $25 for each refill"
> 
> Man this is excellent, I spoke to Steve from the above number and they have the fire extinguisher type for $125 filled and $25 for each fill after that. They remove the syphon tube and say that the Brass fitting to attach the regulator can be purchased form Bunnings.
> 
> ...



Me three, i'd look at taking a couple


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## frednerk99 (5/10/07)

Turto said:


> Me three, i'd look at taking a couple




Ok lads when they get here (the corny kegs) I will post again, eta 7 weeks.

For those of you who want to talk directly my email address is mailto:[email protected] or skype ID www.skype.com "frednerk99" PS: my name is not Fred it's Paul

PS have a look at these http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...DME:X:RTQ:AU:11

Cheers
:icon_drunk:


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## ozbloke (27/11/07)

Just purchased a 5kg ex fire extinguisher from Ceasefire in Adelaide. Ken and Steve are great to deal with and are very professional. I learned a lot from them about the co2 fire extinguisher business. It is unlawful for him to sell a second hand fire extinguisher to anyone. What he sold me is an in date co2 cylinder with a new valve (dip tube removed) and without any fire fighting attachments. I asked if I could repaint it to a co2 colour (grey I think) - I was advised this would not hamper refilling. I note that some other home brewers are concerned about the attitude of thier local co2 agent towards refills. Ken tells me he gets people refered from BOC as they fill his bulk tank and don't bother with small cylinders - perhapse others could contact their local BOC or Air Liquid office and ask for a referral. Besides you are not asking to fill a dodgy "fire extinguisher" but an approved, in date, co2 cylinder. Some people have posted that some valves (fireguard) will allow a regulator to screw straight on but the one I got needed a brass 1/4 inch to 1/2 inch BSP male/male nipple - in plain language you get it from a plumber supplies or hardware store and the thread is so common that your garden tap will screw onto it and it cost about 4 bucks - big deal!

Thankyou Fred (Paul) for pointing me toward Ken and Steve - full marks

Happy brewing all, Ian


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## bigholty (28/11/07)

Just be a bit careful using plumbing fittings to connect cylinder regulators. Yes, the 1/2" BSP thread from bunnings will fit into the nut on a Type 30 CO2 connection, but they are designed for the spigot to seal against the male portion of a proper Type 30 cylinder valve with a teflon washer, it's not a thread-seal. CO2 cyls sit at 5-6,000kPa and there have been many reported cases where CO2 has leaked from beverage systems in confined spaces (ie, cellars, coolrooms) and people have died as a result - an atmosphere of 3-3.5% CO2 can be fatal. I know this won't really deter anyone though  , so I offer the following safety tips:
- Leak-check any connections you make with a very weak detergent solution.
- Where possible, turn cylinders off at the cylinder valve when not in use.
- Try and have some ventillation in areas where CO2 is kept and used.
I don't want to sound like a pansy, but people often overlook the hazards associated with CO2 gas.
Cheers!


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## bigfridge (28/11/07)

bigh said:


> Just be a bit careful using plumbing fittings to connect cylinder regulators. Yes, the 1/2" BSP thread from bunnings will fit into the nut on a Type 30 CO2 connection, but they are designed for the spigot to seal against the male portion of a proper Type 30 cylinder valve with a teflon washer, it's not a thread-seal. CO2 cyls sit at 5-6,000kPa and there have been many reported cases where CO2 has leaked from beverage systems in confined spaces (ie, cellars, coolrooms) and people have died as a result - an atmosphere of 3-3.5% CO2 can be fatal. I know this won't really deter anyone though  , so I offer the following safety tips:
> - Leak-check any connections you make with a very weak detergent solution.
> - Where possible, turn cylinders off at the cylinder valve when not in use.
> - Try and have some ventillation in areas where CO2 is kept and used.
> ...



Pansy .... No. But please let me sound like a Metallurgist.

DO NOT USE STANDARD PLUMBING FITTINGS FOR CO2.

During dispense the fitting will be cooled by the escaping CO2 and this can approach the -80C boiling point of CO2 (ie the temperature at which CO2 goes from liquid to a gas). Metals get very brittle at low temperatures which is why special grades of stainless steel or brass are used. A sharp bump can snap them like a carrot.

I would not recommend using something barely designed for water by a foundry in China.

Now, back to talking like a brewer.

David


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## KGB (28/11/07)

So if the regular bunno's jobs are not suitable, does anyone know what we can get instead? And where we can get them?


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## bigfridge (28/11/07)

KGB said:


> So if the regular bunno's jobs are not suitable, does anyone know what we can get instead? And where we can get them?



I am not saying that they WILL fail, but just that they COULD. And we all love you too much to let you go like that  

Personally I wouldn't bother with the extinguisher now that there are viable and cost effective alternatives like Air-Up and Kegs on Legs available.


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## Guest Lurker (28/11/07)

Personally I would bother with an extinguisher, as long as you have a qualified extinguisher filler/inspector supply it to you with a valve not a trigger, no dip tube, and the correct thread for a reg. I very much agree that I wouldnt be putting Bunnings fittings on.


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## Mitternacht Brauer (28/11/07)

Guest Lurker said:


> Personally I would bother with an extinguisher, as long as you have a qualified extinguisher filler/inspector supply it to you with a valve not a trigger, no dip tube, and the correct thread for a reg. I very much agree that I wouldnt be putting Bunnings fittings on.



Well , I have just kegged my first beer and carbonated it with a micro matic reg that screwed directly to the a 2.5 kg fire extinquisher . Have been putting this off for a few days due to some concerns about connecting it all together but went off without a hitch . Just have to wait for it to condition and a test. Hope it lasts till Xmas day for the family Xmas lunch .


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## KGB (29/11/07)

bigfridge said:


> I am not saying that they WILL fail, but just that they COULD. And we all love you too much to let you go like that
> 
> Personally I wouldn't bother with the extinguisher now that there are viable and cost effective alternatives like Air-Up and Kegs on Legs available.



Thanks for caring BF  
I did a couple of years of Materials Engineering at uni before switching courses so know what you're saying and that its unlikely they will fail but I just figured if there is a better option out there I'd be glad to know. Changing the head and removing the dip tube seem to be the best way to go, that way you avoid any cheap, unsuitable materials in the adaptors and the reg will be drawing from the gas portion and not the liquid like with a dip tube (unless you mount it upside down, rocket style).

I still think an extinguisher is a viable option, even compared to MKOL etc if you can pick one up for the right price. 

EDIT 
Buster: Getting the dip tube removed is a good idea, otherwise securely mount it upside down so the reg is drawing from the gas portion rather than the liquid CO2. By securely, I would envisage a sturdy bracket bolted to a sturdy wall. Getting the head changed to a valve would also be handy but if your reg screws straight on I probably wouldn't bother. I have heard of handle type heads leaking slowly when left clamped permanently on though, so keep an eye out for that. 

********I take no responsibility for anyone following my dodgy advice*********​


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## frednerk99 (4/1/08)

For adelaide people: ken from ceasefire has asked that we take him down a sample if possible of one of your brews when getting a refil. He is a top bloke and is happy to help us out. Lets keep him happy 
He Also has 3.5kg for $90 full and $20 per fill after that. 1/4 inch female thread.
The 5kg is a 1/2 inch female thread.
Cheers

Quote:
"For anyone in Adelaide who is after 5kg fire extinguishers (syphon pipe removed), call Ken at Ceasefire on 0408 676 720 and he will be happy to tee it up for you - very helpful people there. Cost me $120 for 5kg extinguisher including filling, and costs about $25 for each refill"


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## Thorby (5/1/08)

Hi Guys,

i have just got onto a guy in Sydney who has 8 or so 3.5kg extinguishers like new tested and tagged and full if anyone is interested let me know.

Cheers
Craig


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## jimbo82 (14/3/08)

+1 for Ken at Ceasefire. Great service, great prices and great guys!!! I must remember to take a sample next time! Thanks to whoever got onto them in the first place. (I don't have any affiliation, I'm just a very happy customer)


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## paul d (20/3/08)

iam in adelaide and i get my co2 bottle filled at , a to z fire protection alan ph 82517297 , he said he would sell 5 kg for $100 full


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## MarkBastard (11/3/09)

Anyone know places that sell & refill in Brisbane (preferably north of the river)


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## Snow (11/3/09)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Anyone know places that sell & refill in Brisbane (preferably north of the river)


Don't know anyone north of the river, but you could try Blaze at Underwood, or Chubb in Archerfield. I bought mine at Blaze (5kg - $100 incl gas, dip tube removed. Ask for one that fits a homebrew regulator thread.), and get it refilled at Chubb ($30).

Cheers - Snow


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## joshuahardie (12/3/09)

Thorby said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> i have just got onto a guy in Sydney who has 8 or so 3.5kg extinguishers like new tested and tagged and full if anyone is interested let me know.
> 
> ...



What is the cost and pickup location?


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## TidalPete (12/3/09)

Did a lot of searching last time my stinguisher emptied & couldn't find a refiller on Northside. 
Our old stinguisher filler up here stopped filling so had to look further afield. :angry: 
Be aware that some fire extinguisher mobs will fill your bottle whilst others won't.

TP


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## MarkBastard (12/3/09)

Snow said:


> Don't know anyone north of the river, but you could try Blaze at Underwood, or Chubb in Archerfield. I bought mine at Blaze (5kg - $100 incl gas, dip tube removed. Ask for one that fits a homebrew regulator thread.), and get it refilled at Chubb ($30).
> 
> Cheers - Snow



Cheers mate. Think I'll go for a smaller bottle but will check these places out.


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## Screwtop (12/3/09)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Cheers mate. Think I'll go for a smaller bottle but will check these places out.



Some of the smaller ones need an adapter, ask them if they will rethread the cylinder and fit the standard tap valve, your reg will fit straight on, and the thing is not technically a fire extinguisher any more.


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## reviled (12/3/09)

Screwtop said:


> Some of the smaller ones need an adapter, ask them if they will rethread the cylinder and fit the standard tap valve, your reg will fit straight on, and the thing is not technically a fire extinguisher any more.


Thats what my ones like Screwy just explained it better


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## t_c (12/3/09)

Any1 got a ph. or adress for this mob 'blaze' at underwood.

cheers


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## Snow (12/3/09)

t_c said:


> Any1 got a ph. or adress for this mob 'blaze' at underwood.
> 
> cheers



They were called Blaze Fire Protection at 45 Chetwynd St, Loganholme. I just did a quick white pages search and can't find them. Maybe they folded.

- Snow


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## mxd (2/3/10)

are there any places n Melbourne, I've been offered a couple of co2 red bottles and wasn't sure about the thread/fillers etc.. Is there any one in Melbourne where the appropriate "stuff" can be done ?

thanks
Matt


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## Moray (3/3/10)

Hi Matt,

I got mine from UFE in Moorabin about 2 years ago.
http://www.ufeservices.com.au/

it ran out over christmas, so I got it refilled there last month.
It was cheaper than a LPG swap and go refill


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## Boots (6/3/10)

Hi all,

Has anyone picking up a 5KG extinguisher from Ceasefire had trouble getting a micromatic reg to screw on securely?

They recommended I get a 1/2" BSP male - male nipple for the reg which I did, however the adapter doesn't really want to screw on far enough to be secure imo. It's almost like the nylon washer on the reg is too thick to allow the reg to screw on with enough rotations.

Taking the nylon washer off lets me screw it on securely - but I don't want to / won't use the thing without the washer.


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## KGB (6/3/10)

I can't really solve the problem but it probably won't seal without the nylon washer anyway.


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## stillscottish (7/3/10)

KGB said:


> I can't really solve the problem but it probably won't seal without the nylon washer anyway.


From memory, with mine I had to screw in the inner bit of it with an allen key. just a mil or so but that's all it needed.


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## Screwtop (8/3/10)

Boots said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Has anyone picking up a 5KG extinguisher from Ceasefire had trouble getting a micromatic reg to screw on securely?
> 
> ...




The thread required is BSPP (parallel) most nipples are threaded BSPT (tapered)

Water relies on the threads binding up to tighten and become waterproof, high pressure requires tape. Gas relies upon a full thread length contact to withstand pressure and a sealing washer or O ring of some description.


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## Boots (8/3/10)

stillscottish said:


> From memory, with mine I had to screw in the inner bit of it with an allen key. just a mil or so but that's all it needed.



I don't *think* this is my problem - although I don't have the right sized allen key to try it . looking at it this would screw the entire shank into the body / housing further which I don't think will help.



Screwtop said:


> The thread required is BSPP (parallel) most nipples are threaded BSPT (tapered)
> 
> Water relies on the threads binding up to tighten and become waterproof, high pressure requires tape. Gas relies upon a full thread length contact to withstand pressure and a sealing washer or O ring of some description.
> 
> View attachment 36236



THIS makes a lot of sense. Thanks Screwtop - I reckon this is the bulk of my problem. Kind of explains why with the washer in it wobbles all over the place and an extra turn or two with the washer off locks it in tight. I'm guessing it'll be a much more solid connection. Now to find a place that will sell these. Will try ringing around tomorrow to find a 0.5" BSPP.

.On this topic also - I would seriously NOT recommend using a bunnings / plumbing store brass fitting (and not just because of the parallel vs tapered issue). Going by the difference in perceived strength / quality I wouldn't go near them for the extinguishers

Thanks for the responses guys.


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## hydroboy (1/9/10)

mandrakar said:


> Jye,
> 
> For $50 you could send the bottle here to Canberra, and I would get my local bloke to fill it for the $14 that he asks for and you would the $1 better off!
> 
> ...



Hi,

I am in Canberra and looking at CO2 bottle options, any one got any contacts / advice? Have tried sending Uncle Fester a PM about the above but so far haven't had a reply. Looks like fire extinguisher is the way to go if I can find the right supplier.

Thanks.


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## dkaos (17/9/10)

Well, I've just purchased two fire extinguishers on eBay. $30 total. One had C02 and the other had water. Not sure what the water one will be rated at, so I'll check with the fire guy once i've got my adapter sorted.

Will provide some further info to you blokes who are interested once I figure out my setup. Very exciting, but bloody hard to get any decent info that's up to date!

Cheers

Clint


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## Thorby (17/9/10)

Clints Gadgets said:


> Well, I've just purchased two fire extinguishers on eBay. $30 total. One had C02 and the other had water. Not sure what the water one will be rated at, so I'll check with the fire guy once i've got my adapter sorted.
> 
> Will provide some further info to you blokes who are interested once I figure out my setup. Very exciting, but bloody hard to get any decent info that's up to date!
> 
> ...



Hey Clint,

The water one wont hold C02 sorry dude.

Cheers


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## rock (17/9/10)

Thorby said:


> Hey Clint,
> 
> The water one wont hold C02 sorry dude.
> 
> Cheers


+1 the co2 is a compressed liquid under pressure and it needs a steel cylinder that is manufactured to withstand to contain that pressure, no one will fill it anyway,Sorry


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## dkaos (20/9/10)

rocket58 said:


> +1 the co2 is a compressed liquid under pressure and it needs a steel cylinder that is manufactured to withstand to contain that pressure, no one will fill it anyway,Sorry



LOL Yeah after my research I confirmed this. Luckily the guy was happy to swap it for C02. I've now got an empty one and a full one, both C02.

So the major problem I've been facing is that all fire places get them filled off-site. I don't want to do this as I will lose the brass adapter that I'm about to purchase to fit the reg on.

Does anyone have a contact in Sydney that can assist with doing this?

Cheers

Clint


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## mxd (20/9/10)

Clints Gadgets said:


> LOL Yeah after my research I confirmed this. Luckily the guy was happy to swap it for C02. I've now got an empty one and a full one, both C02.
> 
> So the major problem I've been facing is that all fire places get them filled off-site. I don't want to do this as I will lose the brass adapter that I'm about to purchase to fit the reg on.
> 
> ...




don't forget to run it upside down untill you remove the pickup tube.


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## dkaos (20/9/10)

mxd said:


> don't forget to run it upside down untill you remove the pickup tube.




Yeah thanks man, gotta be careful with that one! So I should just be able to run it and use all the gas until empty then when I get a refill, get them to remove the dip tube and bobs my uncle aye?

Do you think I'll be able to screw the reg straight on? Or are most people using adapters


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## mxd (20/9/10)

Clints Gadgets said:


> Yeah thanks man, gotta be careful with that one! So I should just be able to run it and use all the gas until empty then when I get a refill, get them to remove the dip tube and bobs my uncle aye?
> 
> Do you think I'll be able to screw the reg straight on? Or are most people using adapters




I've heard both some people need adaptors others don't ? If you speak to you fire station and ask where they get them filled.


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## dkaos (1/10/10)

Have abandoned the fire extinguisher idea. I've got an empty 5KG C02 extinguisher for anyone who is interested. I'm after 30 bucks.

Cheers

Clint


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## Thorby (1/10/10)

Clints Gadgets said:


> Have abandoned the fire extinguisher idea. I've got an empty 5KG C02 extinguisher for anyone who is interested. I'm after 30 bucks.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Clint



Clint,

I have a couple of full ones in date with the right thread reg screws straight on in Sydney South. PM me if you are still stuck and we can discuss coin.

Cheers


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## KGB (1/10/10)

I've been using a 3.5kg one for a while now and my MM reg screws straight on. I didn't bother inverting to deal with the dip tube and its been fine - its only a small amount of liquid being drawn at a time and it vapourises before it leaves the cylinder anyway. One time I was flushing an empty keg with CO2 and when it was cranking out for a while it started to ice up but that was the one and only time.
If anyone is thinking of using one upside down make sure its secure in case something goes wrong with the head (v unlikely) or it drops and smashes the head and you end up with a CO2 powered rocket.

If anyone knows where and how to get a CO2 extinguisher refilled in Sydney I'd love to know. Ideally I'd like the dip tube and squeeze handle removed and a tap head put on instead. I'm really not that concerned about the cost - I'm sure anywhere that would do it will be far far less than the $300 for a new cylinder anyway.


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## dkaos (1/10/10)

KGB said:


> I've been using a 3.5kg one for a while now and my MM reg screws straight on. I didn't bother inverting to deal with the dip tube and its been fine - its only a small amount of liquid being drawn at a time and it vapourises before it leaves the cylinder anyway. One time I was flushing an empty keg with CO2 and when it was cranking out for a while it started to ice up but that was the one and only time.
> If anyone is thinking of using one upside down make sure its secure in case something goes wrong with the head (v unlikely) or it drops and smashes the head and you end up with a CO2 powered rocket.
> 
> If anyone knows where and how to get a CO2 extinguisher refilled in Sydney I'd love to know. Ideally I'd like the dip tube and squeeze handle removed and a tap head put on instead. I'm really not that concerned about the cost - I'm sure anywhere that would do it will be far far less than the $300 for a new cylinder anyway.


KGB, Check out JB Brew Supplies at Cronulla. Once I am finished with the BOC rental I'm going to buy mine from there. Brand new 6KG is $225 with gas. Cheapest I've found, and I have been looking for weeks.

Cheers

Clint


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## dkaos (1/10/10)

Thorby said:


> Clint,
> 
> I have a couple of full ones in date with the right thread reg screws straight on in Sydney South. PM me if you are still stuck and we can discuss coin.
> 
> Cheers


Thanks Thorby, I ended up renting one from BOC. I'm going to buy one after that is all used, just didn't want to wait and stuff around with the extinguisher.

Cheers

Clint


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## Thorby (2/10/10)

Clints Gadgets said:


> KGB, Check out JB Brew Supplies at Cronulla. Once I am finished with the BOC rental I'm going to buy mine from there. Brand new 6KG is $225 with gas. Cheapest I've found, and I have been looking for weeks.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Clint



+ 1 dealt with JB Brew a few time now, great bloke and excellent service. Check out his psecials on Ebay. ( No Connection to seller just close to home)...Flame On Now.


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