# Banana Beer



## Katherine (2/6/09)

Was wondering if anybody has a recipe for a banana beer. A friend liked drinking it in Africa (Kenya and Tanzania) and would like to brew it for his girlfriend to get her off the TURKEY! 

I vaguely remember Ross has done one... any suggestions welcome!


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## bum (2/6/09)

If the smell coming out of my fermenter is any indication I have a wit recipe that should please.


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## brettprevans (2/6/09)

we have a winner - link


edit: also on Ross' beer


Ross said:


> My kegged Banana Amber (made with 2kg of bananas in 12L of beer) was great from day one - but after 2 months the aroma started to subside & after 4 months it started to take on the flavour of over ripe banannas - so my advice is enjoy young...
> 
> cheers Ross


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## Katherine (2/6/09)

Cheers... CM2

I knew he had done one... and yes I did search!


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## brettprevans (2/6/09)

No worries Katie

i used the AHB search, then found 'banana amber' then needed to use the google search. 

I dont think the search looks at the recipe database. not sure.


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## Katherine (3/6/09)

So Ive suggested to my friend a Amber Ale with banana... He is now thinking along the lines of a wheat beer and banana (im nearly gagging, I dont like wheat beer as it is) wouldnt that be to over powering?

I think this is the beer he was drinking in Africa


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## Bribie G (3/6/09)

I'm entering a couple of Australian Pale ale / sparkling ales in a comp shortly and I keep reading that 'pear' esters are typical and indeed sought after, so I've got myself a 800ml can of pear juice and I'm going to put that in one of them and ferment cool to see what happens :icon_cheers: more than one way to skin a cat, hey.

Troydo at BABBs made a potato beer, I reckon banana would be brilliant.


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## Mantis (3/6/09)

Just culture up some Coopers pale/sparkling ale yeast and use it to ferment a brew at 22C and you will gets lots of banana. 
I know, Ive done it, twice. 
Kept the temps down to 18C the second time and the banana was still there but not as pronounced


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## Ross (3/6/09)

BribieG said:


> I'm entering a couple of Australian Pale ale / sparkling ales in a comp shortly and I keep reading that 'pear' esters are typical and indeed sought after, so I've got myself a 800ml can of pear juice and I'm going to put that in one of them and ferment cool to see what happens :icon_cheers: more than one way to skin a cat, hey.



Bribie,

Just remember the winner gets to brew the beer commercially - The cost of 100 to 200 cans of pear juice might not sit to well with the brewery :unsure: 


cheers Ross


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## silas (3/6/09)

Hi I regularly drank bananna bread beer while i was in england was a lot nicer than it sounds will be interested to see where this thread goes


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## Ross (3/6/09)

Katie,

This is a recipe similar to Charles Wells Bananabread Bitter that I made - Tasty drop.

Bananabread Bitter 
Special/Best/Premium Bitter 
Type: All Grain
Date: 8/02/2008 
Batch Size: 27.00 L
Brewer: Ross 
Boil Size: 35.31 L 
Boil Time: 90 min 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 84.00 

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
2.70 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 61.36 % 
0.70 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) Grain 15.91 % 
0.40 kg Brown Malt (145.0 EBC) Grain 9.09 % 
0.40 kg Maize, Flaked (Thomas Fawcett) (3.9 EBC) Grain 9.09 % 
0.20 kg Caraaroma (390.0 EBC) Grain 4.55 % 
20.00 gm Challenger [7.90 %] (60 min) Hops 15.8 IBU 
30.00 gm Challenger [7.90 %] (15 min) Hops 11.7 IBU 
40.00 gm Challenger [7.90 %] (5 min) Hops 6.3 IBU 
1.50 kg Banana (Secondary 5.0 days) Misc 
2 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) Yeast-Ale 

Measured Original Gravity: 1.042 SG 
Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG 
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.2 % 
Bitterness: 33.8 IBU 
Est Color: 27.4 EBC Color: Color 

cheers Ross


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## Katherine (3/6/09)

Ross said:


> Katie,
> 
> This is a recipe similar to Charles Wells Bananabread Bitter that I made - Tasty drop.
> 
> ...




cheers Ross... I have forwarded the your amber banana rec to him but he wants a wheat beer. Wouldnt that be to overpowering???? Its for his girlfriend who hates beer and nothing bitter.


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## Scruffy (3/6/09)

Ross said:


> Bribie,
> 
> Just remember the winner gets to brew the beer commercially - The cost of 100 to 200 cans of pear juice might not sit to well with the brewery :unsure:
> 
> ...



In which case, we slap a posh label on an odd shaped bottle, call it limited, and sell it for $25 a pop... sound familiar?


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## Swinging Beef (3/6/09)

I would sooner use banana lollies than real bananas.




Having said that.. who made that excellent Red Skin beer I had a few years back?


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## Bribie G (3/6/09)

Ross said:


> Bribie,
> Just remember the winner gets to brew the beer commercially - The cost of 100 to 200 cans of pear juice might not sit to well with the brewery :unsure:
> cheers Ross



Nah I wouldn't do that to them :lol: I'll put it in our own minicomp. However, Ross, on that point - most of the entrants would, more than likely, be using yeast cultured from Coopers bottles. Coopers state that they don't mind home brewers trying out their yeast but how would that work with a commercial brewer pinching their yeast? So is there another yeast that is very similar to Coopers, say in the Wyeast range?? Otherwise the commercially brewed batch would not be a 'clone' of the entrant's winning beer.


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## PostModern (3/6/09)

Swinging Beef said:


> Having said that.. who made that excellent Red Skin beer I had a few years back?



It was the good Reverend, I do believe, and/or his cohort Jaydub.


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## Ross (3/6/09)

BribieG said:


> Nah I wouldn't do that to them :lol: I'll put it in our own minicomp. However, Ross, on that point - most of the entrants would, more than likely, be using yeast cultured from Coopers bottles. Coopers state that they don't mind home brewers trying out their yeast but how would that work with a commercial brewer pinching their yeast? So is there another yeast that is very similar to Coopers, say in the Wyeast range?? Otherwise the commercially brewed batch would not be a 'clone' of the entrant's winning beer.



The Coopers yeast is available at micro brewery level, so no problem.


cheers ross


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## Ross (3/6/09)

Katie said:


> cheers Ross... I have forwarded the your amber banana rec to him but he wants a wheat beer. Wouldnt that be to overpowering???? Its for his girlfriend who hates beer and nothing bitter.




The amber beer would be perfect, it's not bitter, or drop the IBU's to 25 on the Bananabread beer. That said, just brew them a wheatie with WY3068, they'll get all the banana they need.

cheers Ross


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## Swinging Beef (3/6/09)

PostModern said:


> It was the good Reverend, I do believe, and/or his cohort Jaydub.


That was mighty.
Bright pink, too.

I wonder if they would like to share that recipe with me.

I read a recipe from years back where someone used Apple lollies for a Lambic.


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## Katherine (3/6/09)

Ross said:


> The amber beer would be perfect, it's not bitter, or drop the IBU's to 25 on the Bananabread beer. That said, just brew them a wheatie with WY3068, they'll get all the banana they need.
> 
> cheers Ross



Thanks Ross... yeah Im thinking the amber. I will do a double brew day and leave the banana out on ours.


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## bum (3/6/09)

BribieG said:


> so I've got myself a 800ml can of pear juice and I'm going to put that in one of them and ferment cool to see what happens :icon_cheers:



Cider?


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## muckanic (4/6/09)

There's a reasonable chance the African brew would be using plantain bananas for the starch.


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## Thirsty Boy (4/6/09)

Katie = 

Traditional African beer brewed with bananas is called (in at least one part of Africa anyway) Mbege and is made with very ripe bananas or plantains.

There is a brewery in the states that brews one commercially http://www.sprecherbrewery.com/beer.php?cat=5

and they also have another version of an African beer made with corn and millet.

Here is the only other real info I was able to dig up on Mbege - I was researching this a bit a few nights ago.

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art52705.asp

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/africa...eservers/107734

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=VKlHKI...lt&resnum=3
I would appreciate info on any other traditional African styles people have managed to dig up or have tried to make. I.\'ve been doing a little poking about - and it seems that the africans have it all over us and the americans and indeed everybody else out there on the home brewing front - there is probably more volume of beer brewed in the home there than in commercial breweries. Households are brewing up to seven times a week _on average..._ and it is invariably one of the top few forms of household income

http://www.hedon.info/BrewingRuralBeerShouldBeAHotterIssue

Hope the Mbege info helps

Thirsty


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## Weizguy (5/6/09)

Swinging Beef said:


> That was mighty.
> Bright pink, too.
> 
> I wonder if they would like to share that recipe with me.
> ...


FWIW, the lambic was Steve Piatz's Jolly Rancher Apple lambic here

beerz,
Les


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## Katherine (5/6/09)

Thanks Thirsty I had come across some of those sites.....

I found this interesting....

Bananas are harvested and placed over the fireplace or in the ceiling of traditional Chagga huts where the temperature is high enough to speed the ripening. When they are ripe, usually after 5-7 days, the fruits are peeled and boiled in water until the mixture turns reddish brown. The level of browning is based on the person's preference with regard to the final product. After boiling, the mixture is allowed to cool before transferring to a plastic, earthen pot, or wooden container, where it is incubated for 4-5 days. The mash is mixed with more water and filtered through a bed of savannah grass and ferns on a bed of broad banana leaves mounted on a slopping trough. The filtrate is left for some hours prior to the inoculation with malted millet ('mbege') flour, hence its name 'mbege'

This is the exact beer my friend is after, Im not really up to brewing it. So Ive decided to do a amber ale Ill do a double batch so I can have the amber ale and I will put the bananas in his fermenter. Now I was going to blitz the banana in a food processor but was also thinking about cooking it. Any suggestions. And remember I dont have a thatched roof...

And thank you again.


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## muckanic (5/6/09)

Thirsty Boy said:


> Here is the only other real info I was able to dig up on Mbege - I was researching this a bit a few nights ago.
> 
> http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art52705.asp
> 
> ...



There's quite a bit of info around on African sorghum beer, eg, http://www.ianr.unl.edu/INTSORMIL/sm2007%2...m%20beer%20.pdf. Tannin levels seem to be a bit of a problem, although I don't recall Millet Man's gluten-free docs having much to say about that. It is interesting with those Mbege articles that the malted millet seems to be boiled, which would presumably deactivate the enzymes. I wonder if any of those wild microbes have an amylase capability? The articles also suggest that the microbes drop in from above rather than being derived from either the fruit or the grain. They could have their wires a bit crossed there, I suspect, or they have overlooked that some sort of ferment starter is being used.


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## Ross (5/6/09)

Katie said:


> So Ive decided to do a amber ale Ill do a double batch so I can have the amber ale and I will put the bananas in his fermenter. Now I was going to blitz the banana in a food processor but was also thinking about cooking it. Any suggestions. And remember I dont have a thatched roof...
> 
> And thank you again.




Katie,

I freeze the whole bananas (peeled) in plastic bags - When you defrost them, they will be half liquid & easy for the yeast to munch on. I droped straight into secondary, but they make so much mess (pulp) I'd be more inclined to put them in a Hop/grain bag.

cheers Ross


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## Katherine (5/6/09)

Ross said:


> Katie,
> 
> I freeze the whole bananas (peeled) in plastic bags - When you defrost them, they will be half liquid & easy for the yeast to munch on. I droped straight into secondary, but they make so much mess (pulp) I'd be more inclined to put them in a Hop/grain bag.
> 
> cheers Ross



Thanks Ross... that is what I will do. :icon_cheers:


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## Millet Man (5/6/09)

muckanic said:


> There's quite a bit of info around on African sorghum beer, eg, http://www.ianr.unl.edu/INTSORMIL/sm2007%2...m%20beer%20.pdf. Tannin levels seem to be a bit of a problem, although I don't recall Millet Man's gluten-free docs having much to say about that. It is interesting with those Mbege articles that the malted millet seems to be boiled, which would presumably deactivate the enzymes. I wonder if any of those wild microbes have an amylase capability? The articles also suggest that the microbes drop in from above rather than being derived from either the fruit or the grain. They could have their wires a bit crossed there, I suspect, or they have overlooked that some sort of ferment starter is being used.


One of the local bottle shops has Wells Banana Bread beer so might have to have a taste!

:icon_offtopic: Australian grown white sorghum is tannin free (I think nearly all oz sorghums are) so we don't have to worry about tannin extraction. I have a heap of articles on traditional African sorghum/corn/millet beers and IIRC part of the mash is boiled and then malted grain is added to it to create a sour mash / live ferment. The beer is typically low alc and drunk fresh while still cloudy/grainy - probably why they brew so often as it does not keep well. Fermentis actually have a yeast for traditional African beer but not available here AFAIK.

Cheers, Andrew.


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## muckanic (5/6/09)

Millet Man said:


> Australian grown white sorghum is tannin free (I think nearly all oz sorghums are) so we don't have to worry about tannin extraction.



Well, assuming the colour literally means what it says, my local farm supplier only had some red stuff for me to play with. Also known as milo. Actually, wasn't Red Sorghum a movie? I can't remember whether it was beer-related.

But back on topic. Bananas are known for their beta-amylase content. I wonder if any of these African techniques use bananas to dry the brew out? Presumably not if they're boiled.


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## Thirsty Boy (5/6/09)

muckanic said:


> There's quite a bit of info around on African sorghum beer, eg, http://www.ianr.unl.edu/INTSORMIL/sm2007%2...m%20beer%20.pdf. Tannin levels seem to be a bit of a problem, although I don't recall Millet Man's gluten-free docs having much to say about that. It is interesting with those Mbege articles that the malted millet seems to be boiled, which would presumably deactivate the enzymes. I wonder if any of those wild microbes have an amylase capability? The articles also suggest that the microbes drop in from above rather than being derived from either the fruit or the grain. They could have their wires a bit crossed there, I suspect, or they have overlooked that some sort of ferment starter is being used.



I suspect you are right - those articles are written by interested observers not brewers. I suspect there are a few gaps. Mind you I would be surprised if there weren't starch degrading enzymes in bananas - plantains especially are quite starchy and that starch has to get turned into sugar of some description to provide energy for a growing plant.

Maybe that's an interesting way to get around the need for malted grains... althougha few articles do mention the use of malted millet - at low temperatures, but it still gets used.

There really is quite a lot going on with sorghum brewing in africa at the moment - the recent IBD africa conference had quite a few talks etc about it IIRC. Check the IBD website and the journal of brewing. The IBD is probably the leading association for african brewers - so they are quite involved.

But most of that stuff is about brewing modern type beers with local ingredients ... I'm interested in brewing the traditional articles - and/or tweaks of them to bring them "slightly" closer to western beers, but still retain a decent portion of the original character.

c'mon Katie - surely you can find some straw, bracken and banana leaves - or a nice BIAB bag in a pinch


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## Thirsty Boy (5/6/09)

There you go - a bit of poking on te internet and I discover that...

Banana starches are mostly broken down by phosphorylases - resulting in the sugar fractions being prediminanly sucrose, fructose and glucose .... but both alpha amylase, beta amylase, alpha 1,4 and alpha 1,6 Glucosidase - are present in the fruit and importantly, the levels of those enzymes increase as the fruit becomes more ripe.... so hanging those fruit up under the roof till they turn black increases the level of enzymes that we know are good for breaking down cereal starches.

plantains being somewhat more enzymatically active (starch breakdown enzymes) than bananas

Interesting - I might do a little experiment with some oatmeal and a ripe banana ... see what sort of conversion and extraction I can get.

TB


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## chappo1970 (6/6/09)

I could get interested in this.


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## crundle (6/6/09)

Just wondering what Ross' recipe tastes like when it is done, this sounds like a beer to try, it has got my interest also!

Crundle


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## Ross (6/6/09)

Which one Crundle - The Banana Amber or the Bananabread Bitter?


cheers Ross


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## crundle (6/6/09)

Ross said:


> Which one Crundle - The Banana Amber or the Bananabread Bitter?
> 
> 
> cheers Ross



They both sound great Ross, I am tending towards giving the Banana Amber a try first though.

I love this forum, I would have never thought of making a banana beer otherwise!

Crundle


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## Thirsty Boy (6/6/09)

I've got me a banana in a paer bag right now - hopefuly nice and brown/black in a couple of days.

The plan is to mill some wheat flour and rolled oats (the only "raw" cereal I have on hand) and mash them at room temperature for half a day or so, with 3/4s of the ripe banana - raise to 62 stir and & hold at that temp for a while and then let it cool down and sit overnight.

The next day I will boil the mixture for a while to develop the colours and flavours - then when the mash has cooled down room temp or so - mix in the remaining banana portion and a wild yeast culture I have on hand (bit of yeast, bit of souring bacteria.. not sure what - I found it at the bottom of a bucket...) and let the remaining amylases and the culture work on the rest of it together.

I'll shoot for a 1.050 is gravity and only filter the mash (100micron filter cloth) after fermentation is done. Then bottle and prime and see what it comes out like.

Maybe - I will get a malted grain free "beer" - maybe (not likely though) it will even be palatable

TB


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## bconnery (6/6/09)

Chappo said:


> I could get interested in this.



Well it is a thread on AHB Chappo


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## scoundrel (6/6/09)

muckanic said:


> Actually, wasn't Red Sorghum a movie?


 red sorghum is the sreet name for high end cocaine.


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## Katherine (10/6/09)

Ive decided to do the Banana bread bitter. Though a little scared at having 19 litres of it on tap. HA!

Thirsty whats happening with your nanna's?


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## Thirsty Boy (11/6/09)

Katie said:


> Ive decided to do the Banana bread bitter. Though a little scared at having 19 litres of it on tap. HA!
> 
> Thirsty whats happening with your nanna's?



It too damn cold and the bloody thing wont go black... still waiting

While I am waiting I might see if I can pick up some millet and/or corn grits from the local asian and indian stores ... use that instead of wheat/oats. That way it will closer to the original Mbege and also gluten free.


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## Katherine (15/6/09)

Ended up going with Ross Banana Bread Bitter...

When the recipe says 5 days secondary does that mean 5 days in or 5 days in secondary???


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## Ross (15/6/09)

Katie said:


> Ended up going with Ross Banana Bread Bitter...
> 
> When the recipe says 5 days secondary does that mean 5 days in or 5 days in secondary???




Hi katie , probably both - lol.
Add the banana's once the krausen falls back in primary & ferment for approx 1 more week.

cheers Ross


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## winkle (15/6/09)

There's a couple of bunches of ladies finger bananas up the side of the house (stubbornly green ATM) that have a home in secondary, when ever they decide to colour up (prob Nov)  .


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## Katherine (24/6/09)

Tasted the BananaBread Bitter (without the banana) I love it, quite malty and a bitter finish. I LOVE the challenger hop!

Katie :icon_cheers:


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## Thirsty Boy (27/7/09)

So I am actually brweing a nano batc of a modified Mbege.

I have a couple of litres of weird banana / cereal gruel mashing atm.

2L batch

1.5L water 
250g of millet flour
100g of sorgum flour
100g of maize flour
1 very very ripe banana (it took a bloody month and a bit...) and half a green banana

All blitzed together with a bamix and currently mashing at 32C (for several hours at least, maybe over night)

Then I will do one of those fancy reverse decoction things that you do with gluten free beers to get the starches all properly gelatinised... cool down to 32C again and re-mix the enzyme liquid.

Then a very long slow (read several hours) ramp mash up to 78C and batch sparge through a 100micron filter bag - to give a pre-boil of 2.4L ... 90min boil with 10IBU (2g) of hersbrucker.

I'm guessing a 60% mash efficiency for a gravity of around 1.045

Or - - possibly nothing like that at all


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## winkle (27/7/09)

Thirsty Boy said:


> So I am actually brweing a nano batc of a modified Mbege.
> (snip)
> Then a very long slow (read several hours) ramp mash up to 78C and batch sparge through a 100micron filter bag - to give a pre-boil of 2.4L ... 90min boil with 10IBU (2g) of hersbrucker.
> 
> ...



 
Let us know how it goes.


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## drtomc (27/7/09)

Thirsty Boy said:


> So I am actually brweing a nano batc of a modified Mbege.
> 
> I have a couple of litres of weird banana / cereal gruel mashing atm.



Wow, TB, that's so weird, it makes the sliced square rubber in plastic bags at the supermarket look like bread!

Look forward to hearing how it goes. Hopefully it won't vanish in a puff of logic. Or worse undergo cold fusion and blow up in your face. :unsure: 

T.


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## Katherine (27/7/09)

I tried the banana beer we brewed over a month ago on Saturday, we used close to 2 kilos of banana... more banana aroma then anything. Nice beer.


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## jivesucka (7/2/10)

What is this i don't even


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