# Best Wheat Kit + Hoegaarden Yeast + Temp Question



## MVZOOM (11/6/06)

I have a couple of bottles of Hoegaarden here, so thought I might put them out of their misery - and at the same time make a wheat beer using their yeast.

So - couple of questions:

1) In your opinion, what's the best wheat kit out there, that's available now?

2) Ze ferment temp that I can pretty much count on will be around 17deg - is this too low for this yeast?

3) With the kit, coud / should I still add some extra coriander and orange peel zest?

I seached, found and read one topic on this one (around the yeast re-culture) - so any help appreciated.

Cheers - Mike


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## Bobby (11/6/06)

i have only ever used the esb fresh wort wheat kit. it was great however unfortunately it is a seasonal release.


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## Mr Bond (11/6/06)

ESB 3kg can of goo.


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## MVZOOM (11/6/06)

Ok, good stuff - so either the ESB or TCB Wetpack (I reckon I'll go the wetpack). Any comments regarding the temp range for that yeast?

Thanks- Mike


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## Mr Bond (11/6/06)

As with all ale yeasts it will work well @ that temp ,but will probably be subdued with the fruitiness factor.
20c is probably more realistic for a wheaty of belgian,but don't sweat it too much it will still make beer thats nice I'm sure.


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## mika (11/6/06)

Tried the ESB, don't think it was a 3kg can though.. could be wrong, it was OK, but I'm not a huge fan.
I'm a fan of the coopers brewmaster wheat beer kit, always turns out good. But then I'm a fan of Redback, which the coopers fits well (I think anyway).
So I guess it depends on what you're chasing, also I'd agree with Brauluver on the temps.

The coriander and orange zest would work a treat, but no idea how much of each you would use. Did have a recipe that mentioned it, but the computer crashed :angry" and I can't get to it at the mo.

For yeast propogation Try here

Also, some of the german brewers purposefully kill the yeast as part of the process, so you may have trouble propogating the yeast.... just a side note so you don't get too suicidal if you can't get the yeast to work.

Otherwise, Good luck and let us know how it goes

Edit: This is what I was thinking of...uses coriander and dried curacao orange peel to lend bitterness.


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## mhan7073 (11/6/06)

Hoegaarden is belgian and I don't think they kill their yeast. 

This may seem obvious, but wouldn't it be easier to use the Tarwebier kit by brewferm. www.brewferm.be or directly http://www.brewferm.be/en/brew_prod12.htm

I personally have not used the kit, but it was made to replicate hoegaarden. I've had success with the triple kit, and mixed results with the Gallia by brewferm.

If you buy the kit they often have extra instructions in a hybrid form of flemish/english, I like to call flenglish, (much like Ricky Martin's spanglish) which often gives additional information as to how to alter the kit. 

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Hoegaarden use the peel of an orange grown for that specific purpose. I think it might be those really pale small ones. As you can see I'm not a fruit expert.

Mic


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## tangent (11/6/06)

u can try to make a decent starter with the bottles, but I've found the resulting brews to be inconsistent. I prefer a decent smack-pack of the Belgian wit. 18-22C is fine with this yeast. Lovely yeast and hard to go wrong with. add a LITTLE orange or mandarin peel and some freshly ground coriander seed. If you're using goo, I'd use some wheat malt or use some wheat goo. it's the tart/sour wheat that goes well with the floral yeast. like the leffe tripel.


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## mika (11/6/06)

I had a quick search of the site and found this as well.

Smashed Jaffa recommending;

14g of orange zest (2 oranges)
16g crushed coriander seed

From here about halfway down.

Edit: And anothery been meaning to try this for ages.


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## Bobby (11/6/06)

the corriander is good. i tried 25g. adds the extra something. one thing though the flavour from it fades after about 3-4weeks in my experience.


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## mika (11/6/06)

And while we're at it, I don't think this has been posted anywhere and no point sitting in my folders, never got round to making any of them yet.



> Alright mate here are the recipes that I got a hold of while researching to make my wheaty. I ended up making the first one (the hoegaarden) but aparently it turns out much more like scofferhofer than hoegaarden and nothing like hoegaarden:
> 
> HOEGAARDEN WIT BIER
> 
> ...


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## MVZOOM (11/6/06)

Thanks all. I'm not trying to clone the Hoegaarden - but was reading that a wheat is a good 'fresh' beer - so while I have a bunch of lagers and ales (cc'ing and resting, respectively), I thought I'd bash a quick drinker into one of the kegs. 

So was struggling as bit with which yeast to use, then my eye fell on the three remaining (and somewhat lonely, I might add) bottles sitting above the pantry.

I'm a fan of Redback and generally like the style, so I'll start the yeast out tonight and go from there.

Thanks for the advice - all good!

Cheers - Mike


Edit - the other option is some re-juvinated Coopers Pale Ale yeast, which should produce a nice 'twang' - but that's going to srtuggle at 17-18deg, yeah?


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## sinkas (11/6/06)

I dont think the Hoegaarden yeast will taste much like redback, but then again redback hardly has any taste anyay...

Shoud be a nice combo.


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## tangent (11/6/06)

if you want redback, I'd use a packet of K97 yeast
the hoegaarden yeast is quite distinctive with or without coriander and orange.


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## mika (11/6/06)

MVZOOM said:


> Edit - the other option is some re-juvinated Coopers Pale Ale yeast, which should produce a nice 'twang' - but that's going to srtuggle at 17-18deg, yeah?



All the info I've seen would suggest so, probably need better than 20. But that is for the dried yeast in the packs. They might use a better one in their own beers ?
Guess you could try it and then we'd know for sure :huh:


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## Voosher (11/6/06)

MVZOOM said:


> Edit - the other option is some re-juvinated Coopers Pale Ale yeast, which should produce a nice 'twang' - but that's going to srtuggle at 17-18deg, yeah?



I brew all of my Coopers recultures at 18C. When it gets a little warmer (22C and above) it starts to impart banana flavours and aromas.
It should be fine at 17C - it will just be a little slower.


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## Benno-5 (11/6/06)

Try this one, I have done it in the past and its very close to the real thing

-Black rock whispering wheat
-1kg dried wheat malt
-15g coriander seeds (cracked open not crushed - treat as grain)
-2tbsp orange peel zest (thats the orange part of the peel not the white zest - about 2 aranges will give 2 tbsp)
- Safwheat Yeast

Boil extract and wheat malt for 30 mins with 2lt water, boil orange peel and corriander together with 500,l water for 20 mins then strain and add everything to fermenter, add water to 21lt and pitch. 

Final Volume 21lt

Ferment at 18c


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## Mr Bond (11/6/06)

Voosher said:


> MVZOOM said:
> 
> 
> > Edit - the other option is some re-juvinated Coopers Pale Ale yeast, which should produce a nice 'twang' - but that's going to srtuggle at 17-18deg, yeah?
> ...



Good advice voosher!

Iv'e said it b4 ,and I'll say it again.In my experience(nearly 100) ales of many varieties and strains.The best temp range is 15/18c max.Going higher is not a problem.It will just make it fruitier is all.The resultant beer will be cleaner and crisper @ those temps,and some ale yeasts like kolsch/alt, K97 will produce lager like characteristics.I only maintain temps of 20/22c for weizens as it brings out a flava profile i like.

All you noobs and k'n k experimenters,ignore the label instruction and try any ale yeast @ no more than 18c and taste the diff.


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## tangent (11/6/06)

the K97 (safwheat) is pretty damn ordinary IMO. (just like a redback)
it produces almost none of the clove or banana that wheat beer lovers look for. (although i haven't tried brewing with this yeast at 24C+ maybe that'd get something happening)
if you want phenols and flavours etc. i'd go the Belgian wit or the 3333 or 3056. great yeast taste to start with. add some grain to that, even better!


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## MVZOOM (11/6/06)

ok cool. So the Hoegaarden or the Coopers - either or. I'll try the Hoegaarden first, if it makes a good starter I'll use that then.

Cheers for the advice.


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## Weizguy (11/6/06)

To get the real Wit flava, you'll need to do at least a partial mash with some pils malt, rolled wheat and oats.

If U want weizen flava, you prob won't get what you're after with that yeast, and you'll need a specific weizen yeast, not K-97 (sorry).

There is a 3rd option and that's the American style wheat beer. Any wheat can o' goo will prob be OK and just use some Yank hops for flava, and ferment with a neutral (say US-56) yeast.

I'm happy to give any encouragement to wheat beer brewers and I hope to taste one some day in a comp.

Seth


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## Mr Bond (11/6/06)

MVZOOM said:


> ok cool. So the Hoegaarden or the Coopers - either or. I'll try the Hoegaarden first, if it makes a good starter I'll use that then.
> 
> Cheers for the advice.



Keep us posted on how you go with the hoey MV.

how did that other beer with the coopers turn out 4 ya?

If you are interested here is the White tail pale Link that I started ,IE a wheaty with coopers reculture.

Dave


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## mika (11/6/06)

Weizguy said:


> ..... a neutral (say US-56) yeast.



So you can use US-56 for more than just ales ? :blink:


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## MVZOOM (11/6/06)

Brauluver said:


> MVZOOM said:
> 
> 
> > ok cool. So the Hoegaarden or the Coopers - either or. I'll try the Hoegaarden first, if it makes a good starter I'll use that then.
> ...



Thanks Dave, will do. The Sparkling has been in a cube (space restraints, hope it does it some good!), settling for the last 4-6 weeks. Actually going to keg it tomorrow, so I'll def let you know how it goes. She's a bit potent, methinks - should be a nice warming ale!

Cheers- Mike


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## Mr Bond (11/6/06)

mika_lika said:


> Weizguy said:
> 
> 
> > ..... a neutral (say US-56) yeast.
> ...



wheat beers are by definition ales!Weizen/wit american wheat.If it uses an ale yeast its an ale.If its a top fermenter,and not a lager strain ,then its an ale.Wheat beers are simply ales with a %ge of wheat in the grist.


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## mika (11/6/06)

Cool... never even thought of using US-56 for a wheat before. Liked it's performance in the last Ale I did, so it might get a run in the next wheat beer.


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## Mr Bond (11/6/06)

mika_lika said:


> Cool... never even thought of using US-56 for a wheat before. Liked it's performance in the last Ale I did, so it might get a run in the next wheat beer.



Hey ML this link BJCP will clear up a lot of queries 4 ya.
Light ales 3b will help with the us wheat style.
if you want to be a real beer geek and learn a S#*t load about styles the easy way,try my trick.
I started At the first category and read through one per day for 24 days(didn't do ciders and meads).
it is an interesting study for 3 1/2 weeks and will help u understand much of the stuff posted here with out feeling like a dummy  

dave

Thanks for that ML(I'm a f'wit some times)I've changed it now


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## mika (11/6/06)

Cheers Brauluver, the link you posted is to a post you did on a wheat beer. But I have been meaning to check out the BJCP guidelines for a while, might go for a look see and check it out.


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## Mr Bond (11/6/06)

I've amended that post now :blink: DOH :excl:


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## Weizguy (11/6/06)

I'd be really keen to see how much you'll like an American/Aussie wheat beer.

Flavour it up with some aromatic hops (Cascade, Tettnang, Hallertau, Saaz, some of the new varieties, anything fresh), and go with a fairly low bitterness. I reckon you'll love it. The yeast still brings out the wheat flav' and the hops just give it that special finish. Great drinking in Summer, and (I'll say it again) I'm surprised that no-one offers these commercially due to their thirst-quenching capacity and the amount of wheat we grow in Oz.

* Edit - Ferment at 16C and add extra complexity with the US56 yeast. Work well with "bitter" style too.

My 2 cents.
Seth out


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