# Pink Stain (psr) & Sugar Soap & Tsp



## rendo (18/4/10)

Hi Guys,

Would anyone care to comment on using sugar soap to clean brewing gear?

It "seems" from the research that I am doing that Sugar Soap has the same active ingredient as Pink Stain Remover, which is Tri Sodium Phospate?
I have used PSR quite a few times and it seems to be pretty good, even more powerful than napisan/sodium perc? (I guess that statement depends on many factors, eg concentration, soak times, temp etc, but u get my drift)
Anyway, I have soaked some demijohns (see below story) in bleach solution (non acidified...thats next if I have to), napisan solution, but I am still not happy. ALMOST good as new, but still not happy. Anyway....

Just chucking it out there what do people know about sugar soap being TSP and PSR being TSP? Interchangeable (depending on concentrations of course?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_soap

Anyway.....I have a few glass demijohns (2-3L - havent measured yet, at least 2L) that have been used for wine making and they were under a house for 15-20 (possibly more) years with wine still in them. (Wine no good)....so much crud and crap etc. 

Wanting to clean them up, prob wont use them for brewing, MAYBE for a yeast starter, but ONLY if i can get them sparkly clean  Plastic I would chuck, but there isnt any reason why I couldnt get glass back to good as new.

*Hey...check this link out...I dont see how he got the results he did with bleach (Streaking?) but the rest of what he says is food for thought. VINEGAR and RICE!!?!?!?! WTF.....I tried it though, looks like it works well  

**http://www.aeroandclarkie.co.uk/cleaningdemijohns.php*

*Rendo* 

EDIT: Upon closer inspection it looks like this vinegar/rice combo has come up really nicely in getting the caked on grime that the bleach and napisan wasnt shifting (note the bleach and napisan did get rid of nearly 100%....I am after 100% and nothing less ). I will experiment some more.
I know I will end up soaking with bleach, water and vinegar...potent stuff....f#$king awesome! BEWARE!


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## Wolfy (19/4/10)

Sugar soap did a great job of helping clean the grease off an old BBQ I had to clean up, but have not tried it on demijohns or brewing stuff, was a bit unsure if it would be food-safe even using it on the BBQ-bits.

We acquired some glass demijohns via FreeCycle, the only problem was they were still full of years-old-mead.
After washing the crud out they were filled with hot water, sodium percarbonate (nappisan) and a drop of dishwashing detergent and put out the back on the concrete in the summer sun for a few weeks. The sodium percarb soak took care of all the organic gunk and UV took care of everything else.
Before use they had another wash with sodium percarb, disinfected with acidified bleach rinse (bleach and vinegar) and then sanitised with StarSan.
At which time they were perfectly clean and ready to use.

I think the guy in that link is getting a little confused with cleaning and sanitising, I'm also not sure it's a good idea or required to use a combination of sodium percarb and bleach.
I've found that a soak in sodium percarb and hot water will take care of any organic buildup - but the vinegar and rice might be interesting to try as an abrasive before soaking.


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## MHB (19/4/10)

I would be wary of the sugar soap, I think from memory it has powdered pumice in it to act as an abrasive, fine silicates will scratch glass.

Note that "Pink" is Chlorinated-TSP, TSP is one of the most powerful cleaners known, without the Chlorine it isn't a steriliser.

Still my weapon of choice after all these years
MHB


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## Ducatiboy stu (19/4/10)

Sugar soap also has a detergent in it..... that is ONE thing you dont want near your brew gear.

Stick with TSP, Nappi-san, Bleach, PBW, star-san etc......you cant go wrong with these tried and tested products


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## rendo (19/4/10)

Thanks Wolfy, Stu and MHB...

AS always good food for thought.....

Wolfy your methods sounds alot like what I will do and have done. I am going to experiment more with the vinegar/rice thing, just for fun mainly. I cant ever picture myself really using it in the brewing world. BUT....if it does do a good job of removing the left over coating/crud that can barely be seen by the naked eye...then sweet. Even napisan after a two day soak doen twice, still wasnt shifting the very fine crud that could be seen when held up to bright light. It appears the vinegar/rice thing did...but jury is still out.

Once I am all done, they will get a smashing (not literally) of acidulated bleach and napisan and boiling water, just to be sure. Then capped ready to use when I want them (after a no-rinse sanitiser). Perfect bottles to be doing BIG yeast starters in!!

Rendo




Wolfy said:


> Sugar soap did a great job of helping clean the grease off an old BBQ I had to clean up, but have not tried it on demijohns or brewing stuff, was a bit unsure if it would be food-safe even using it on the BBQ-bits.
> 
> We acquired some glass demijohns via FreeCycle, the only problem was they were still full of years-old-mead.
> After washing the crud out they were filled with hot water, sodium percarbonate (nappisan) and a drop of dishwashing detergent and put out the back on the concrete in the summer sun for a few weeks. The sodium percarb soak took care of all the organic gunk and UV took care of everything else.
> ...


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## Wolfy (19/4/10)

rendo said:


> Perfect bottles to be doing BIG yeast starters in!!


Mine don't have flat-bottoms so I spend 1/2 hour trying to set it 'right' ontop of the stir-plate, only to bump it once to send the stir-bar flying off again.


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## rendo (19/4/10)

STIR PLATE :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2: 

I'd love one of those. Cant justify the cost at the moment. Maybe later down the track  or BONUS time.....come on september!!

rendo




Wolfy said:


> Mine don't have flat-bottoms so I spend 1/2 hour trying to set it 'right' ontop of the stir-plate, only to bump it once to send the stir-bar flying off again.


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## Ducatiboy stu (19/4/10)

NOTE : Nappi-san requires water above 75*c to be effective. Hot water from the tap is not hot enough...You will need to get the kettle out


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## rendo (19/4/10)

Hi Stu,

I have always had GREAT results with napisan, I am a big fan. Want to get pure sodium perc next time. My tap water is 65C so I might try to get the kettle out. Napisan has worked 100% with my brew stuff as I never let it get dirty (ALWAYS clean as u go), but these demijohns have one, probably two decades of gunk and crud in them (really speaking it could even be three decades, really dont know). I will have to get some pictures. Still have a few to clean. The ones that I have cleaned up look brand new. they were SERIOUSLY dirty man......MEGA DIRTY.

Rendo



Ducatiboy stu said:


> NOTE : Nappi-san requires water above 75*c to be effective. Hot water from the tap is not hot enough...You will need to get the kettle out


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