# ultratap or intertap? is there a difference?



## bird (1/5/20)

Hi all. 
Looking to get some new taps for my keezer. Read an older thread comparing ultratap and intertap but it was a couple of years ago and was just wondering if there was anymore insight into the quality of the different taps. Really liking the black ultrataps. Look forward to hearing your advice. 
Thanks


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## Grmblz (2/5/20)

Don't forget to look at the new KL Nuka's
There was a comment last year about black chrome taps and someone asked KL when they were going to bring them in, the answer was that they weren't, sorry I can't remember why but they had a reason. I think it was in Kegland questions and answers but that thread is at 200 pages now! Maybe post a question there and see what they come up with.


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## wide eyed and legless (2/5/20)

bird said:


> Hi all.
> Looking to get some new taps for my keezer. Read an older thread comparing ultratap and intertap but it was a couple of years ago and was just wondering if there was anymore insight into the quality of the different taps. Really liking the black ultrataps. Look forward to hearing your advice.
> Thanks


If you like the black Ultratap then go with it, which one is better between the Ultratap and the Intertap? To give you peace of mind I doubt whether Micromatic in the US would put their name to anything inferior.


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## Grmblz (2/5/20)

But there's Ultra and then there's Ultra, not sure where you got the photo but there's no sign of an Ultra tap on either AU or US Micromatic site, and as we all know, you tell em what you want printed on your goods and it happens. Fonts & Taps | Micro Matic Beer Taps, Faucets Whatever these are Weal I doubt they are what you would get from a LHBS if you went in and ordered Ultra taps.


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## wide eyed and legless (2/5/20)

Grmblz said:


> But there's Ultra and then there's Ultra, not sure where you got the photo but there's no sign of an Ultra tap on either AU or US Micromatic site, and as we all know, you tell em what you want printed on your goods and it happens. Fonts & Taps | Micro Matic Beer Taps, Faucets Whatever these are Weal I doubt they are what you would get from a LHBS if you went in and ordered Ultra taps.


Only being released in America at the moment, shortly to go into Europe don't know about Australia yet.
Actually thinking about it there isn't much point having it here, Ultra tap is already here and it may cost more with Micro Matic branded on it.


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## CKK (2/5/20)

Grmblz said:


> But there's Ultra and then there's Ultra, not sure where you got the photo but there's no sign of an Ultra tap on either AU or US Micromatic site, and as we all know, you tell em what you want printed on your goods and it happens. Fonts & Taps | Micro Matic Beer Taps, Faucets Whatever these are Weal I doubt they are what you would get from a LHBS if you went in and ordered Ultra taps.


Grmblz - I can assure you that MicroMatic asked for and was granted the exclusive to our Ultrataps for the USA. Not about to discuss the details of the deal publicly but message me privately if you want proof. The first shipment should be with them soon but not sure if or when it will go on the US website.


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## CKK (2/5/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> Grmblz - I can assure you that MicroMatic asked for and was granted the exclusive to our Ultrataps for the USA. Not about to discuss the details of the deal publicly but message me privately if you want proof. The first shipment should be with them soon but not sure if or when it will go on the US website. There is only one Ultra and it’s a KK product.


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## bird (2/5/20)

Thanks for all the info. Think I'll be getting three of the black ultrataps. Reckon they will look pretty flash with the timber collar on the keezer. If your still watching Will - I've already got long shanks from some shity taps I brought a while ago. Will the self closing spring Work with the long shanks?


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## CKK (2/5/20)

bird said:


> Thanks for all the info. Think I'll be getting three of the black ultrataps. Reckon they will look pretty flash with the timber collar on the keezer. If your still watching Will - I've already got long shanks from some shity taps I brought a while ago. Will the self closing spring Work with the long shanks?


Not sure about the shanks but I think there is a reasonable chance they will.


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## wide eyed and legless (2/5/20)

Grmblz said:


> Don't forget to look at the new KL Nuka's
> There was a comment last year about black chrome taps and someone asked KL when they were going to bring them in, the answer was that they weren't, sorry I can't remember why but they had a reason. I think it was in Kegland questions and answers but that thread is at 200 pages now! Maybe post a question there and see what they come up with.


I had a look at the promo video for the Nukatap, KL, KK aside, 20% less material used equals less cost, a cheaper shuttle, less cost again. A machined stainless steel shuttle, which according to Kee will last 1,000,000 pours as he demonstrated in the robotic arm video of the Intertap. 
Well if I drink 2.5 litres a night, pouring into a 500ml glass equals 5 pours per night 35 pours per week, 1820 pours per year means my Intertap will last me 549 years! Call it 500 years for party nights. Why change something which is half the price of the cheaper to manufacture Nukatap, which you get a spare shuttle because they are cheap and are not going to last so long, when you have a perfectly good tap which is going to last in excess of 500 years?
Maybe its the thermal mass of the tap which makes it double the price of the Intertap while being cheaper to manufacture, less thermal mass means it cools quicker. Then again on the other hand less thermal mass means it heats up quicker too.


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## Grmblz (2/5/20)

I must admit I know nothing about the Nuka's, just that they exist and as such should be considered along side all the other taps, hence "don't forget to *look* at the Nuka's" I wasn't promoting them just pointing out their existence.
As for the black chrome, there WAS a negative comment about it, for the life of me I can't remember the thread or the content, I was in the process of building a serving fridge for a mate and he liked the look of them then saw something on the forum and went with SS instead, Yeees Weal the same tap just SS not black.
You raise some interesting points, spare shuttle??? wtf! WHY?............................... OK so that 12.5 mins of my life gone (the nuka vid)
NOW it's exactly the same price as the inter @ $24 so where's your "double the price"??
On something like this material cost is the least of your worries (unless you're making it out of unobtainium/gold) cmon weal you're not that stupid, casting and machining is easily where the coin is, after R&D of course.
Thermal mass heats up cools down? This is application specific, there will be times when the heavy weight performs better and vice versa, I disagree with Kee's assertion that the nuka will outperform the inter/ultra (I can't see the difference between them even though a comparison was done at the other place) in every circumstance, horses for courses but the nuka may be in front.
Spare shuttle? now THAT's a fkg worry, for a couple of reasons, 
first of course is "where the fk did I put that spare shuttle" in 3? 5? yrs
second given KL's propensity for improvement is when you can't find your spare shuttle in 5yrs time does their website say "superseded"? 
Having said that of course does it matter, because at these prices who gives a shit? The main reason I support KL is they have reduced the price of a tap from $200 to $24, a bottle of CO2 from $350 to $90 FULL! and all the other stuff that goes along with it, no longer is bottling the norm for the battler, and kegging for the better off, sure their gear isn't made to Rolls Royce standards, but you don't need to be a millionaire to drive one of their cars.
Personally I think you're being a bit one eyed here (no surprise) however Kee talking about roughness on the shuttle was a giggle, early last year I sent a couple back for being too rough (another build) after being told by KL that they would "bed in" they replaced them no problem but the real issue of course was QC and tolerances, I hope the cylinder that rubber (yeh whatever it is) shuttle is operating in is a LOT smoother than the inters I've used. If not well at $24 a tap just buy new ones.
Wish I could remember what the bloody issue was with black chrome. Bloody hell nearly 7.0pm time for a brew, decisions, decisions??? bugger it, been a large day gonna do a Belgium.


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## CKK (2/5/20)

Grmblz said:


> I must admit I know nothing about the Nuka's, just that they exist and as such should be considered along side all the other taps, hence "don't forget to *look* at the Nuka's" I wasn't promoting them just pointing out their existence.
> As for the black chrome, there WAS a negative comment about it, for the life of me I can't remember the thread or the content, I was in the process of building a serving fridge for a mate and he liked the look of them then saw something on the forum and went with SS instead, Yeees Weal the same tap just SS not black.
> You raise some interesting points, spare shuttle??? wtf! WHY?............................... OK so that 12.5 mins of my life gone (the nuka vid)
> NOW it's exactly the same price as the inter @ $24 so where's your "double the price"??
> ...


Grmblz you have been sold a pup if you think KL wanted to bring prices down. They started a price war to force us out of business and then the prices were to go up once we were out of biz. I can show you emails from Kee to prove this and put you in touch with the LHBS they were sent to. They were unable to achieve this because they underestimated our abilities and resources. We came back stronger and better. You bought a pup mate. The high prices in the past were down to those who started the war and if they had won it you could have kissed those prices good bye.


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## Grmblz (2/5/20)

The reality is that after years of prices that kept kegging as a bit of a luxury (just look at the price of a CO2 bottle or tap before KL) all of a sudden retail customers could buy at wholesale prices, THAT is what happened Will, I have no doubt there was/is an endgame strategy, BUT! at this point in time we as retail consumers are getting wholesale prices, there's still margin for importers just nothing for re sellers, does anyone really worry about Woollies $1 a Ltr milk or $5 doz eggs, no the middle guys get screwed, and no-one cares (well I do obviously but I'm a dying breed) Times change, change with em or join the dinosaurs.
Sounds harsh but "it is what it is" 
Might just wander down to the orchard and check for duck eggs, wish I had a cow to milk NOT! Bugger just realised it's pitch black outside, Oh well I'll just have to have another Belgian, then might be time for an early night.


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## CKK (2/5/20)

Grmblz said:


> The reality is that after years of prices that kept kegging as a bit of a luxury (just look at the price of a CO2 bottle or tap before KL) all of a sudden retail customers could buy at wholesale prices, THAT is what happened Will, I have no doubt there was/is an endgame strategy, BUT! at this point in time we as retail consumers are getting wholesale prices, there's still margin for importers just nothing for re sellers, does anyone really worry about Woollies $1 a Ltr milk or $5 doz eggs, no the middle guys get screwed, and no-one cares (well I do obviously but I'm a dying breed) Times change, change with em or join the dinosaurs.
> Sounds harsh but "it is what it is"
> Might just wander down to the orchard and check for duck eggs, wish I had a cow to milk NOT! Bugger just realised it's pitch black outside, Oh well I'll just have to have another Belgian, then might be time for an early night.


Grmblz we do not screw the resellers. We work on volumes and terms that give them a reasonable margin. They are very important to us as are the end customers, Whilst we need to make money to stay in biz we are not driven by it. That is why we keep growing and customers know they can trust us. Duck eggs are heavy duty. Had enough of milking when I was a kid. Careful those Belgians will keep you up all night and cannot be trusted. I call them Leopold’s.


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## Grmblz (2/5/20)

I didn't accuse KK of screwing the re-sellers, KL did that, I just meant to point out that the punters did well at the expense of the resellers, and to be honest most LHBS (mine is a BCF) don't have a fkg clue but still want their ridiculous mark up, mine in "MORUYA" there I've said it has a 6kg CO2 bottle for sale for $245, before you fall off your chair laughing 3 yrs ago that was the going rate, I read about LHBS's offering different crushes, I asked my guy for a kilo each (uncrushed) of 2 separate grains (admittedly both chocolate) and he proudly gave me a bag with a light and dark choc mix of grains, wtf and he deserves a 50% 100% depends how you do the math mark-up???


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## wide eyed and legless (3/5/20)

Grmblz said:


> As for the black chrome, there WAS a negative comment about it, for the life of me I can't remember the thread or the content, I was in the process of building a serving fridge for a mate and he liked the look of them then saw something on the forum and went with SS instead, Yeees Weal the same tap just SS not black.
> You raise some interesting points, spare shuttle??? wtf! WHY?............................... OK so that 12.5 mins of my life gone (the nuka vid)
> NOW it's exactly the same price as the inter @ $24 so where's your "double the price"??
> On something like this material cost is the least of your worries (unless you're making it out of unobtainium/gold) cmon weal you're not that stupid, casting and machining is easily where the coin is, after R&D of course.
> ...


Could it be that black chrome would be more easily applied to brass? The black taps are actually annodised stainless steel.
The price, maybe I looked at the flow control just saw they were in the $40 something range.
The point is when you buy raw material like 304 it is bought on weight, melted and cast into taps, fettling, polishing and machining remain at a constant value. Any saving would have to be made on weight, so a slightly bigger core will drop the weight. Next saving, the shuttle not stainless steel, a cheaper lighter material, so cheap the are willing to throw in a spare, remember the taps were weighed with shuttles in.
So a tap which has been proved to last over 500 years, to a tap with a spare shuttle with an unknown working life expectancy. Both the same price, which one would the punter be better off with?

OK I say that tongue in cheek, the robot didn't do a million pours, I timed its pull rate and it would have taken almost 2 months. Neither was there ever a robotic tig welder welding the inside of the mini kegs, going in through a 35 mm hole with cable and wire feed. (and doing it on a production line)
But people believe it, gullible people, and the sad part is, it is usually the gullible people who are usually those with little excess income.
But as a fact, when Brad Amidzich the inventor of the Intertap and Ultratap, owner of Vent-Matic he bought back from an establishment in Melbourne one of his original Flo taps which had been pulling beers commercially without any problems or 'O' ring changes for almost 15 years. Same principal as the two mentioned above with the stainless shuttle.

We have enjoyed good prices in the last couple of years, much to the loss of incomes to home brew shops, making things cheaper isn't a way forward, quality, quality control (difficult when a factory is in another country) and value for money is all a customer wants.
Not to listen to dribble about robotic arms doing a million pulls fictitious robots welding the inside of kegs, thermal mass etc.


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## CaptainMachSnot (3/5/20)

Why does every discussion about which tap to get turn into a slagging match between which SUPPLIER is better than the other, when the question asked is which TAP is better. I slogged my way through the last inter vs ultra thread, and came out none the wiser. I have my keezer at the stage of adding taps, and as such am interested if anyone has anything useful ABOUT THE TAPS to add to this thread. If you want to sling crap at each other, go do it somewhere else, or start a new thread about which supplier is better/more ethical.
Also, here is a couple of picks of my keezer


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## malt and barley blues (3/5/20)

There could just be another reason for the change in taps from Kegland.





Search Results | IP Australia | Trade Mark Search


Australian Trade Mark Search is the Australian Government’s trade mark search system.




search.ipaustralia.gov.au




The name is owned by MCH Australia.


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## onemorecell (4/5/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> Grmblz you have been sold a pup if you think KL wanted to bring prices down. They started a price war to force us out of business and then the prices were to go up once we were out of biz. I can show you emails from Kee to prove this and put you in touch with the LHBS they were sent to. They were unable to achieve this because they underestimated our abilities and resources. We came back stronger and better. You bought a pup mate. The high prices in the past were down to those who started the war and if they had won it you could have kissed those prices good bye.


keen to see those emails


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## onemorecell (4/5/20)

bird said:


> Hi all.
> Looking to get some new taps for my keezer. Read an older thread comparing ultratap and intertap but it was a couple of years ago and was just wondering if there was anymore insight into the quality of the different taps. Really liking the black ultrataps. Look forward to hearing your advice.
> Thanks


to actually answer your question:

1. Both taps are fine/good/the best/better than the other. Get whatever is convenient. Main thing is, from all accounts neither tap is shit and they're both cheap AF compared to perlics, without any real downside.

2. This will start a ******* war between kegland and keg king. grab your popcorn and god speed.


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## onemorecell (4/5/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> customers know they can trust us.


trust the guy that posts from fake accounts to denigrate another business? nice mate. well played.

props for finally talking shit from your proper account though.


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## Coalminer (4/5/20)

I've been stung by crap Perlicks as well
Just threw 6 545PC flow controls in the bin and replaced with FC Intertaps
Much happier now.


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## malt and barley blues (4/5/20)

onemorecell said:


> keen to see those emails


Go in and ask him.


onemorecell said:


> to actually answer your question:
> 
> 1. Both taps are fine/good/the best/better than the other. Get whatever is convenient. Main thing is, from all accounts neither tap is shit and they're both cheap AF compared to perlics, without any real downside.
> 
> 2. This will start a ******* war between kegland and keg king. grab your popcorn and god speed.


Both are probably as good, only the Ultra has the black colour, can't understand your thinking on starting a war if Kegland had no rights to the trademark. Don't know where it leaves those with a warranty who bought the Intertap from KL.


onemorecell said:


> trust the guy that posts from fake accounts to denigrate another business? nice mate. well played.


And Keg Land hasn't,? 
Have a read through the first section of the KL Q & A how they ran KK down when they had no right of reply.


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## Reg Holt (4/5/20)

You may not have read the recent thread about the Grand Deluxe how KL posted that the Super Deluxe was inferior and made up a whole cock and bull story about the model without ever having seen one. Easy to see who the perpetrator is denigrating another business and products.





Grand Deluxe 125 GD125


Hey everyone Im trying to find a grand deluxe 125. Kegking have sold out in the last week and are not going to stock them anymore. I live in Brisbane and waiting on a freight quote from one in Perth. Anyone know of any other places that stock them?




aussiehomebrewer.com





Back onto the taps I think there is not a lot of difference if any between the Ultra and Intertaps,
it is interesting to see Micro Matic has gone with the Ultra tap though. I wonder if the Intertap will now go out of existence.


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## CaptainMachSnot (4/5/20)

onemorecell said:


> to actually answer your question:
> 
> 1. Both taps are fine/good/the best/better than the other. Get whatever is convenient. Main thing is, from all accounts neither tap is shit and they're both cheap AF compared to perlics, without any real downside.



This is nice to know. Was the conclusion I was coming to.
Any bad points seem to be because someone doesnt like the company that makes them rather than a fault with the tap.


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## Grmblz (4/5/20)

Reg Holt said:


> You may not have read the recent thread about the Grand Deluxe how KL posted that the Super Deluxe was inferior and made up a whole cock and bull story about the model without ever having seen one. Easy to see who the perpetrator is denigrating another business and products.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


_Will be interesting to see how much Micromatic sell them for, might have to hoard a few._


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## wide eyed and legless (4/5/20)

malt and barley blues said:


> There could just be another reason for the change in taps from Kegland.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


After checking for myself, it also seems that besides Intertap, Fermentasaurus, Keg Master, and Beveridge Doctor also belong to MCH Australia. There has been more than one post by Keg Land they would prosecute anyone using their Trade Mark, when all the time it wasn't theirs to use!
So I suppose the question now would be, where does that leave retailers world wide who have bought merchandise, in good faith from Keg Land with Keg Land falsely using another company's brand names?


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## malt and barley blues (5/5/20)

CaptainMachSnot said:


> Why does every discussion about which tap to get turn into a slagging match between which SUPPLIER is better than the other, when the question asked is which TAP is better. I slogged my way through the last inter vs ultra thread, and came out none the wiser. I have my keezer at the stage of adding taps, and as such am interested if anyone has anything useful ABOUT THE TAPS to add to this thread. If you want to sling crap at each other, go do it somewhere else, or start a new thread about which supplier is better/more ethical.
> Also, here is a couple of picks of my keezer


I think most agree there is not enough difference in the taps to argue about, that's my opinion of what has been posted. I see you are new and wasn't aware of the members who left this forum to start another forum. So if you are comparing the infamous Ultra versus Intertap, well a few of those members would come back on this forum to disrupt it maltjunkie AKA mashmaniac to name one, there were others too. So I would ignore that thread, as I and others have said doesn't matter which ones you get, also pretty sure they are manufactured in the same factory, just going by the packaging.


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## Grmblz (5/5/20)

^ +1 I've got Inters, but used Ultra's on a friends build, no real difference, I found the Inters to be a bit grittier in action initially but that wears off pretty quick.


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## Meddo (5/5/20)

malt and barley blues said:


> I think most agree there is not enough difference in the taps to argue about, that's my opinion of what has been posted. I see you are new and wasn't aware of the members who left this forum to start another forum. So if you are comparing the infamous Ultra versus Intertap, well a few of those members would come back on this forum to disrupt it maltjunkie AKA mashmaniac to name one, there were others too. So I would ignore that thread, as I and others have said doesn't matter which ones you get, also pretty sure they are manufactured in the same factory, just going by the packaging.


Are you for real? The only contributions of value in that thread came from a bloke who dropped back in from the other side and put the two taps side-by-side for a comparison.

@CaptainMachSnot, have a look at posts from here: Ultratap versus Intertap


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## CKK (5/5/20)

Grmblz said:


> ^ +1 I've got Inters, but used Ultra's on a friends build, no real difference, I found the Inters to be a bit grittier in action initially but that wears off pretty quick.


The Ultra Taps are laminar flow whereas the Intertap is not. The Ultra pours with less foaming. We are happy that we can provide our brewing and drinking customers both as well as all the ancilliary spouts and bits that go with them.


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## malt and barley blues (5/5/20)

Just visited that old thread PCM Fisher put the photos up, a regular forum member not a blow in. I think if you read the post properly you would have seen that he has read the whole thread.





PCM Fishers photos.


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## wide eyed and legless (5/5/20)

Lets not turn this thread into a saga, the OP's questions been answered, whats the difference, not a lot, folk who have each are happy as pointed out above they are both still available, I remember I took 2 Intertaps apart they weren't interchangeable threads so there are some forgeries out there.


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## Meddo (5/5/20)

malt and barley blues said:


> Just visited that old thread PCM Fisher put the photos up, a regular forum member not a blow in. I think if you read the post properly you would have seen that he has read the whole thread.
> View attachment 118074
> 
> PCM Fishers photos.


My apologies, there was indeed one worthwhile post in the first ten pages, I forgot about that one after wading (again, I was there at the time) through all the shit-slinging between WEAL, BH and mashmaniac.

On-topic-ish I've got an Ultratap on the way, I've sold all my Intertaps (which were fine) but looking forward to doing a side-by-side with the trial Nukatap I've also got. One thing I can say before installing is looks-wise there's going to be a clear winner - Nukatap is UGLY. At this stage I'm looking for a tap to use for a full nine-tap kit-out of my new dispense rig, I'm not likely to go with Nukataps at this stage so I'm hoping the Ultra is a step up.

@CEO Keg King, a couple of questions please:

Are you going to continue supplying Intertaps, or is the listing on your website just clearing out old stock?
Is there any intention of releasing a flow-control version of the Ultratap?
Are you intending to release the stout spout and other alternative spouts for the Ultratap in all the different black / gold / etc. finishes?
Cheers


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## CKK (5/5/20)

Meddo said:


> My apologies, there was indeed one worthwhile post in the first ten pages, I forgot about that one after wading (again, I was there at the time) through all the shit-slinging between WEAL, BH and mashmaniac.
> 
> On-topic-ish I've got an Ultratap on the way, I've sold all my Intertaps (which were fine) but looking forward to doing a side-by-side with the trial Nukatap I've also got. One thing I can say before installing is looks-wise there's going to be a clear winner - Nukatap is UGLY. At this stage I'm looking for a tap to use for a full nine-tap kit-out of my new dispense rig, I'm not likely to go with Nukataps at this stage so I'm hoping the Ultra is a step up.
> 
> ...


Hi Meddo - yes we will continue to produce the Intertap which was always our product and whilst customers like it then we will have it together with its accessories. The Ultra Tap in other colours at the moment only have the standard spout but we may look at it if enough people are interested. I might get a few done to put them on display to see the customer reactions.

The Ultra Tap willnot be made with any flow control.


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## CaptainMachSnot (5/5/20)

Meddo said:


> On-topic-ish I've got an Ultratap on the way, I've sold all my Intertaps (which were fine) but looking forward to doing a side-by-side with the trial Nukatap I've also got. One thing I can say before installing is looks-wise there's going to be a clear winner - Nukatap is UGLY. At this stage I'm looking for a tap to use for a full nine-tap kit-out of my new dispense rig, I'm not likely to go with Nukataps at this stage so I'm hoping the Ultra is a step up.


Will be interested to see how this goes.
Any reason you got rid of the intertaps?


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## Meddo (5/5/20)

CaptainMachSnot said:


> Will be interested to see how this goes.
> Any reason you got rid of the intertaps?


I went through a downsizing phase - which lasted all of three months  At the moment my plan is to go with Chinese Euroball-style taps which I've got five of already, I love the looks and the pour but there's design issues that make me wonder how sanitary they are. If funds allowed I'd probably go Micromatic Debitaps, but they don't...


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## CaptainMachSnot (5/5/20)

Hahaha, downsize. What were you thinking? Did you go and get help for that?


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## CKK (5/5/20)

onemorecell said:


> trust the guy that posts from fake accounts to denigrate another business? nice mate. well played.
> 
> props for finally talking shit from your proper account though.


Let’s talk proper accounts then. Suggest you go to www.kegking.cn and see whose products come up. That is right none other than Kegland‘s through its associate AMCO in Hong Kong. Yes all you good people on here just go there and check it out. So save your faux outrage and get some real outrage when this kind of shit gets exposed. A real business does not need to stoop to these kind of low tactics.


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## MHB (5/5/20)

Yawn


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## blacktop™ (6/5/20)

I’ve got both taps, 2 x intertaps and 1 x ultratap. While I prefer the pour from the ultratap, I don’t like the feel of the tap. The tap itself feels loose and doesn’t quite “lock” into the open or closed position. Slight bumps have knocked the tap open 5-10% and beer has dribbled out.

The intertap on the other hand has a slightly worse pour. It’s probably more turbulent on the inside. But the handle and seal feels sturdier.

In the interest of an honest review, my kegerator with 2 x intertaps and 1 x FC intertap was purchased from keg king before the split. I didn’t like the FC intertap and thought i’d try a different tap so I bought the ultratap. I’ll most likely be replacing the ultratap for a nukatap in the near future. I don’t have a preference from which store I buy from. I have placed multiple others from both stores.


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## CKK (6/5/20)

blacktop™ said:


> I’ve got both taps, 2 x intertaps and 1 x ultratap. While I prefer the pour from the ultratap, I don’t like the feel of the tap. The tap itself feels loose and doesn’t quite “lock” into the open or closed position. Slight bumps have knocked the tap open 5-10% and beer has dribbled out.
> 
> The intertap on the other hand has a slightly worse pour. It’s probably more turbulent on the inside. But the handle and seal feels sturdier.
> 
> In the interest of an honest review, my kegerator with 2 x intertaps and 1 x FC intertap was purchased from keg king before the split. I didn’t like the FC intertap and thought i’d try a different tap so I bought the ultratap. I’ll most likely be replacing the ultratap for a nukatap in the near future. I don’t have a preference from which store I buy from. I have placed multiple others from both stores.


There was no split. Not sure why people think there was a split. Keg King was and remains totally intact.


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## blacktop™ (7/5/20)

The “split” was a reference to a bunch of the keg king employees leaving and starting their own business.

please keep politics out of this and keep the thread on track.


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## wide eyed and legless (7/5/20)

blacktop™ said:


> I’ve got both taps, 2 x intertaps and 1 x ultratap. While I prefer the pour from the ultratap, I don’t like the feel of the tap. The tap itself feels loose and doesn’t quite “lock” into the open or closed position. Slight bumps have knocked the tap open 5-10% and beer has dribbled out.
> 
> The intertap on the other hand has a slightly worse pour. It’s probably more turbulent on the inside. But the handle and seal feels sturdier.
> 
> In the interest of an honest review, my kegerator with 2 x intertaps and 1 x FC intertap was purchased from keg king before the split. I didn’t like the FC intertap and thought i’d try a different tap so I bought the ultratap. I’ll most likely be replacing the ultratap for a nukatap in the near future. I don’t have a preference from which store I buy from. I have placed multiple others from both stores.


Will you be getting the Nukatap FC?


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## CKK (7/5/20)

blacktop™ said:


> The “split” was a reference to a bunch of the keg king employees leaving and starting their own business.
> 
> please keep politics out of this and keep the thread on track.


By all means keep politics out of it and facts in. When a business is split it happens quite differently to what occurred.


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## fdsaasdf (7/5/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> By all means keep politics out of it and facts in. When a business is split it happens quite differently to what occurred.


just ask FreeBSD


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## blacktop™ (7/5/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Will you be getting the Nukatap FC?



Nah I’m not a fan of FC taps to be honest. That’s why I got rid of the FC intertap in the first place.


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## blacktop™ (7/5/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> By all means keep politics out of it and facts in. When a business is split it happens quite differently to what occurred.



whats your opinion on the tap situation? Why don’t you help the OP out.


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## bird (7/5/20)

Hey will. Do you know when you will be getting the 100mm shanks in. Had a look at my shanks and they are no good As they are hollow all the way through. Want to get the black ultrataps but want the self closing spring. Have lost to much beer in the past to my daughter hitting the tap by accident. Thanks


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## malt and barley blues (7/5/20)

blacktop™ said:


> whats your opinion on the tap situation? Why don’t you help the OP out.


To be fair to CEO KK, Keg King sell both, AND, has the sole right to both brands, the Ultratap and the Intertap. Probably better to leave it to the customer. As blacktop has stated he found the Ultra loose, I didn't but still put a return spring in the Ultra all the same. So a better pour from the Ultra and no worries about the tap being knocked or having to go out and buy something else, which could be inferior to both the Inter and the Ultra.


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## CKK (7/5/20)

blacktop™ said:


> whats your opinion on the tap situation? Why don’t you help the OP out.


Sorry I have missed something maybe? How can I help?


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## CKK (7/5/20)

bird said:


> Hey will. Do you know when you will be getting the 100mm shanks in. Had a look at my shanks and they are no good As they are hollow all the way through. Want to get the black ultrataps but want the self closing spring. Have lost to much beer in the past to my daughter hitting the tap by accident. Thanks


I think we should have them but would have to check. You can put a spring on an Ultra Tap no problem. Daughters hitting taps and wasting beer may be sold into slavery I heard ….


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## bird (7/5/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> I think we should have them but would have to check. You can put a spring on an Ultra Tap no problem. Daughters hitting taps and wasting beer may be sold into slavery I heard ….


She's an investment. Teaching her to brew beer so will pay off one day. Checked online today and the shanks where out of stock. Can get them elsewhere but would rather buy it all from you guys.


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## blacktop™ (7/5/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> Sorry I have missed something maybe? How can I help?



Check the thread title and post #1


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## CKK (7/5/20)

bird said:


> She's an investment. Teaching her to brew beer so will pay off one day. Checked online today and the shanks where out of stock. Can get them elsewhere but would rather buy it all from you guys.





bird said:


> She's an investment. Teaching her to brew beer so will pay off one day. Checked online today and the shanks where out of stock. Can get them elsewhere but would rather buy it all from you guys.


Yes I know they are investments. Have two daughters and still wondering when that investment matures - hehe. Save me looking up the part number if you have it I will do my best to find you some in the morning.


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## CKK (7/5/20)

blacktop™ said:


> Check the thread title and post #1


Sorry but OP is it other person perhaps? I have always helped out and doing my best for Bird. Running this business does keep me rather busy but I never want to forget the person who just needs a tap. Just ask Meddo.


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## bbqzookeeper (7/5/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I had a look at the promo video for the Nukatap ... which you get a spare shuttle because they are cheap and are not going to last so long ...



Ahh WEAL, I've got time for you.
However, it seems as if the spare shuttle is part of a separate product, the 'seal kit'.
They're not the clearest in language, and the video can readily lead you into believing you're getting a spare one...
Just facts for others reading the thread later on.


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## Grmblz (7/5/20)

Yes but it's an issue with propriety gear, a seal kit that is a set of o rings has a certain longevity (you can always get o rings, and in any type of material) that shuttle is going to be around for how long? Just look at their website (if you can be bothered waiting the 5 minutes for their "NEW" wizz bang site to load) and see how many "superseded" products there are.
At $24 the taps are a throw away item, it's just that not everyone is into throw away, despite having Inters I'm quite fond of my 50yr old Whitbread taps (the brewery not the tap manufacturer) and I can still just buy generic seals for them, not that I have because the bloody things are still going, the chrome has worn off the brass, and yet they're still not leaking. Just sayin.


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## wide eyed and legless (8/5/20)

bbqzookeeper said:


> Ahh WEAL, I've got time for you.
> However, it seems as if the spare shuttle is part of a separate product, the 'seal kit'.
> They're not the clearest in language, and the video can readily lead you into believing you're getting a spare one...
> Just facts for others reading the thread later on.


Sounds like you might have one, I'm sure it was stated that the shuttles were so cheap they throw in a spare, but you could be right it could mean the seal kit. I won't bother watching it again.


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## bird (8/5/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> Yes I know they are investments. Have two daughters and still wondering when that investment matures - hehe. Save me looking up the part number if you have it I will do my best to find you some in the morning.


Part code: 7506. 100mm stainless long shank.

Thanks will. Appreciate the assistance. You've always been very helpful when I've asked questions.


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## Meddo (8/5/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> Hi Meddo - yes we will continue to produce the Intertap which was always our product and whilst customers like it then we will have it together with its accessories. The Ultra Tap in other colours at the moment only have the standard spout but we may look at it if enough people are interested. I might get a few done to put them on display to see the customer reactions.
> 
> The Ultra Tap willnot be made with any flow control.


I would think that the stout spouts should be made in body matching colours as they'd be likely to stay on the tap long term, the other specific-use adapters (growler, ball lock etc) would be fine in stainless.

Opens up a can of worms having tap colours cos I reckon if you I were kitting out my rig with coloured taps I'd want matching colours on all of the components - spouts, shanks, collars, k-lok adapters...

I prefer stainless personally though.


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## CaptainMachSnot (8/5/20)

Noticed kegland has sold out of nukataps, and put the price up to $35.


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## Grmblz (8/5/20)

Oh well, there goes "throw away" although anything less than $100 for a decent beer tap a few years ago was unheard of, there's still a question mark over the shuttle, plastic (yeh whatever) v stainless steel? I've got 50yr old chrome plated brass taps that the chrome has worn off, and they still work perfectly, if that was some sort of rubber coating on a plastic "matrix" (been watching too many movies) what's the chances???


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## splitice (9/5/20)

Very interesting thread (excluding the politics). It would be really interesting to see some side-by-sides (same beer, same tube lengths) from people with different taps of anyone has the time.

Lots of marketing when it comes to taps, but how much does it really matter?


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## Grmblz (9/5/20)

splitice said:


> Lots of marketing when it comes to taps, but how much does it really matter?


One would think that the best pour would "A" be the primary consideration, and "B" fairly easy to quantify.
But we see comments such as "it's ugly" wtf!, or "I love the look but it has sanitary issues" wtf!! or "does it come in colours?" wtf!!!
Sorry guys no offence intended here just pointing out that what on the face of it should be a simple enough decision becomes rather complicated once we introduce the "human condition"


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## CKK (9/5/20)

Grmblz said:


> One would think that the best pour would "A" be the primary consideration, and "B" fairly easy to quantify.
> But we see comments such as "it's ugly" wtf!, or "I love the look but it has sanitary issues" wtf!! or "does it come in colours?" wtf!!!
> Sorry guys no offence intended here just pointing out that what on the face of it should be a simple enough decision becomes rather complicated once we introduce the "human condition"


The Ultra Tap is a true laminar flow tap which reduces foaming. We originally made the Intertap but that design was not able to achieve the laminar flow. So the Ultra Tap was made and it is the successor to the Intertap. We will soon have a bit more info coming out about this.


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## splitice (9/5/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> We will soon have a bit more info coming out about this.



Maybe you can do the requested side-by-side comparison then.


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## CKK (9/5/20)

splitice said:


> Maybe you can do the requested side-by-side comparison then.


Well we would be comparing our own product with our own product of course but why not. Our team works closely with Monash Brewlab so we might ask them to do this and give us something a bit more in depth.


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## Grmblz (9/5/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> Well we would be comparing our own product with our own product of course but why not. Our team works closely with Monash Brewlab so we might ask them to do this and give us something a bit more in depth.


The Inter/Ultra has long been debated with the misconception that one was from KK and the other was from KL, now that they are both confirmed to be KK products and any bias to one company or the other has been removed it would be good to get a professional opinion as to the effectiveness of each.
I admit to suffering from "the human condition" (see previous post #65) and prefer the look of the inter (which I use) over the debatable superior pour of the ultra (which I've used for friends builds) would love it if a comparison could include some of the other tap designs also, especially the micro matic roto type.
A consideration could also be life expectancy of the various types given the roto has a plastic insert/valve as does the KL Nuka, see my post #63 and the expected service intervals. 
Probably opening a can of worms, and creating conflicts of interest but it would be a very interesting exercise.
fwiw the inter/ultra's come apart really easily for cleaning with few parts and just a couple of seals.


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## CaptainMachSnot (9/5/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> Well we would be comparing our own product with our own product of course but why not. Our team works closely with Monash Brewlab so we might ask them to do this and give us something a bit more in depth.


Don't think it matters that you make both products, I for one am interested in the performance differences. Aesthetics is personal, so A looks better than B is not much use, unless there is an actual cosmetic design element not apparent via the web pictures. Personal experience with the taps is also of benefit, but as not many people seem to get one then replace them with the other and so are unable to do a side by side comparison, I am lead to believe that neither of these taps have any major defects that would make them a bad purchase. The internal seal differences is interesting as well in that some comments lead me to lean towards the intertap being better, but then hearing the shuttle mech is better performing in the ultra puts them back on par. Maybe when update time comes, create a Hypertap, with the best of both, and open it up for users of these taps to give some feedback on what they would like to see improved?
Then of course there is the Nukatap to consider in the mix, but now they have priced themselves above the competition.


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## CaptainMachSnot (9/5/20)

Grmblz said:


> The Inter/Ultra has long been debated with the misconception that one was from KK and the other was from KL, now that they are both confirmed to be KK products and any bias to one company or the other has been removed it would be good to get a professional opinion as to the effectiveness of each.


Hahaha, like this one. So what happens with the KL supporters that loved the Inters, and the KK supporters that hated the Inters now it comes out KK own them both?


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## Grmblz (9/5/20)

@CaptainMachSnot Obviously I don't know what your set up is but for $25 for an inter and $30 for an ultra why not buy one of each and see how they go, it's a very personal thing and either of these taps will see you out, unless you live to 100 so might as well get the right ones (for you) and if it means keeping a $25 tap as a spare well so be it.


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## Grmblz (9/5/20)

CaptainMachSnot said:


> Hahaha, like this one. So what happens with the KL supporters that loved the Inters, and the KK supporters that hated the Inters now it comes out KK own them both?


Probably a bit like Holden fans finding out they were weren't Aussie they were GM, look at the ignition key on a Gemini, it says Isuzu. It's called badge engineering, very common these days. People get sucked in, just look at the joke Bathurst has become.


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## CKK (9/5/20)

CaptainMachSnot said:


> Hahaha, like this one. So what happens with the KL supporters that loved the Inters, and the KK supporters that hated the Inters now it comes out KK own them both?


Not sure that there were many KK supporters who hated the Intertaps as they were always available from us. We just developed the Ultra Tap as we were able to buy the exclusive rights to those patents from Ventmatic and we wanted to offer a laminar flow tap. The Intertap is a good tap but the Ultra Tap gives you a bit more. Sadly though the Intertap name has been used by companies in China who are infringing patents and many people have purchased products which are not the real deal.


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## CaptainMachSnot (9/5/20)

Grmblz said:


> @CaptainMachSnot Obviously I don't know what your set up is but for $25 for an inter and $30 for an ultra why not buy one of each and see how they go, it's a very personal thing and either of these taps will see you out, unless you live to 100 so might as well get the right ones (for you) and if it means keeping a $25 tap as a spare well so be it.


This was what i was thinking. Was going to get two plated ones, then kit entire keezer with stainless ones when i knew which was better, but no pc in the ultratap range. Also debating between ultra and nuka since there had been a bit of a cloud around the inters, was going to cross them off the list. If kl, had been superseded by the nuka, and if kk, then superseded by the ultra. Wasnt sure how long they would be around, cause i am buying them as funds allow.


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## CKK (9/5/20)

CaptainMachSnot said:


> This was what i was thinking. Was going to get two plated ones, then kit entire keezer with stainless ones when i knew which was better, but no pc in the ultratap range. Also debating between ultra and nuka since there had been a bit of a cloud around the inters, was going to cross them off the list. If kl, had been superseded by the nuka, and if kk, then superseded by the ultra. Wasnt sure how long they would be around, cause i am buying them as funds allow.


There will be no plated chrome in the Ultra Taps. Plated is not very good for health reasons. It has been found that Brass used in taps often contains a small amount of Bismuth which can have very bad effects on people.


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## CaptainMachSnot (9/5/20)

Was only going for a short term test and then replacing, cause i have read about it and also cannot handle the harsh chemicals used in brewing. On a side note had a little chuckle to myself - my son has a bird called Bismuth (i know it is also an element), so a little bit of bird in every pour.


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## CaptainMachSnot (9/5/20)

Bit OT, but here is a bit of a funny story about birds in beer:
A couple of weeks ago I was making the Stone and Wood clone originally made by Earl, I had boiled the hop/wort and was letting it cool in the sink when my daughter asked me to help her print out a document to suspend her trainee-ship (stupid Covid). Went over to her computer, and found she had tried to print it a dozen times, cause thats what you do when it wont print, just keep sending it to the printer till it eventually comes out. Anyway, spent a good half hour trying to get it to work. She thought she would be helpful while I was doing this and got out a cloth and started wiping the table down. Walked over to the sink and dumped it in without looking what she was doing. I saw at the last second, but before I could do anything, it was too late. Rushed over to the sink to see seeds, feathers and little bits of bird shit floating around in my precious liquid. Thought about re-boiling, but was more turned off by the fact it would be too bitter more than the fact it had stuff in there that should NEVER go in any beer. I had to tip it out, but didnt want to waste the malt I had already poured into the fermenter with an unknown amount of water to dissolve - it was a Briess product, and I didnt want to tip $50 down the sink. I only had a tin of the coopers australian pale ale, and no idea how much of the malt to get rid of since it was 2.5kg of fermentables in there. Decided to pour it out into a sanitised saucepan and calculate how much to remove to bring it back down to 1.5kg. Added the pale ale tin and mixed up. Once I got it into the ferment fridge, I realised I had mis calculated and in fact had 2kg malt in there, turned out to be a bit over 6.5%. Dry hopped with galaxy at what I thought would be 4 days to go. Turned out that it needed almost 3 weeks in the fermenter to finish up. Looked nice and hazy, and tasted good, so didnt bother c'cing it. Kegged it, and the Australian Dumb Blonde was born. Was surprised, it is quite delicious. Might even make it again, sans bird shit.

Edit: add pic


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## Grmblz (9/5/20)

CaptainMachSnot said:


> Was only going for a short term test and then replacing, cause i have read about it and also cannot handle the harsh chemicals used in brewing. On a side note had a little chuckle to myself - my son has a bird called Bismuth (i know it is also an element), so a little bit of bird in every pour.


The problem here is they are not exactly the same, sure the design is the same but the rasp/grit that you get from a ss is not the same as on a cp, and then we get onto what is brass? or rather what is in it? I believe lead has been added in some brass alloys to aid in the machining process, ss? jeez how many variations of ss are there? Manufacturer's will provide a product on price irrespective of quality and I have so called ss that is rusting, apparently stain LESS means it does rust just not as much as ordinary steel, where one draws the line is debatable, marine grade does not "stain" at least not the stuff on my boat, so what is the difference? and how does it perform in our particular usage with chemicals etc. End of day we need a trusted supplier that produces good quality gear, and if that means paying more for the same product but made with superior material then such is life.


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## Grmblz (9/5/20)

Please tell us your daughter isn't blonde


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## CaptainMachSnot (9/5/20)

Hadn't thought about our first point, but definitely valid. Couldn't agree more about paying more for quality gear. Will always be a market for cheap as possible, no matter the quality. I am in the camp of paying a bit more for quality, but not extra just for a brand name.


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## CaptainMachSnot (9/5/20)

Grmblz said:


> Please tell us your daughter isn't blonde


I could, but then I'd be lying. And the condition isn't even caused by the peroxide soaking in and pickling her brain. That's my conclusion as to why blonds aren't as smart as others, nothing to do with hair colour, everything to do with leaching chemicals. Wait a minute, same could be said for inferior taps.


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## Meddo (9/5/20)

Grmblz said:


> One would think that the best pour would "A" be the primary consideration, and "B" fairly easy to quantify.
> But we see comments such as "it's ugly" wtf!, or "I love the look but it has sanitary issues" wtf!! or "does it come in colours?" wtf!!!
> Sorry guys no offence intended here just pointing out that what on the face of it should be a simple enough decision becomes rather complicated once we introduce the "human condition"


Hey @Grmblz, I agree with a lot of what you say but a few of those WTFs seem to be aimed at a few of my comments here - not sure if that's ambiguity on my part, misinterpretation on yours, or just disagreement. But here goes.

If it was that easy to quantify which tap has the best pour why don't we have the answer yet? I suspect that the reason is that most of these modern taps are VERY good at pouring beers and differences in laminar flow or whatever will turn out to be fairly minimal. If I'm correct then appearances may be a differentiating factor - I don't have a horse in any race but if Intertap, nukatap and ultratap pour about the same for about the same price then looks may be a valid differentiator. Also I'm not personally going to buy any variation of a tap that isn't plain stainless steel, but I would and did suggest that if someone (KK) offer a coloured tap then it's probably worth making matching accessories.

Re the Euroball, I said that they have the best pour of any tap I've had, not just that they look good therefore top of my list regardless sanitary issues. I also believe I said (I could be wrong, haven't checked, but if I am wrong the following is my actual intention) that there MAY be issues regarding how sanitary they are, the problem is that nobody seems to know how to dismantle the bloody things to find out. Hopefully I'll have an answer to that one soon though. One of my concerns at the time I made that comment was about potential brass contact with beer but I have since ruled that out - it does appear that everything in contact with beer is stainless or Teflon so not a concern. I also got a glimpse of the internal mechanism and my concerns are far less than what they were a couple of days ago.


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## CKK (10/5/20)

CaptainMachSnot said:


> Was only going for a short term test and then replacing, cause i have read about it and also cannot handle the harsh chemicals used in brewing. On a side note had a little chuckle to myself - my son has a bird called Bismuth (i know it is also an element), so a little bit of bird in every pour.


Your son must be very nerdy to name a bird after an element. A little bit of bird in every pour sounds funny.


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## CaptainMachSnot (10/5/20)

Science is his favourite subject in yr 8. He has almost memorised the entire periodic table, and always comes out with little fun facts for us. And he loves watching Steven Universe


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## CKK (10/5/20)

Grmblz said:


> The problem here is they are not exactly the same, sure the design is the same but the rasp/grit that you get from a ss is not the same as on a cp, and then we get onto what is brass? or rather what is in it? I believe lead has been added in some brass alloys to aid in the machining process, ss? jeez how many variations of ss are there? Manufacturer's will provide a product on price irrespective of quality and I have so called ss that is rusting, apparently stain LESS means it does rust just not as much as ordinary steel, where one draws the line is debatable, marine grade does not "stain" at least not the stuff on my boat, so what is the difference? and how does it perform in our particular usage with chemicals etc. End of day we need a trusted supplier that produces good quality gear, and if that means paying more for the same product but made with superior material then such is life.


There are definitely a lot of variations of SS. Couple of weeks ago we had to machine a part from our blow moulding plant and it was 316. Our lathe would barely touch it. Had to go to a top end machine shop who told us that not all 316 was the same and it can be further hardened. Looks like I am shopping for a new high end lathe next week. For our taps we use 304 and the supplier is required to give us the certificates for our engineer to check. More importantly though is that we have an extremely good relationship with the owners of the factory who would not want to mess with the idea of losing a lot of business in the future. In the past I have even had factories in China sending me plated stuff and insisting it was SS. Needless to say those suppliers never ever got the guernsey again. 

Pretty hard though doing a quality product if people want cheap. Its why with the Ultra Tap our target was really the professional dispensing scene. That takes a while to convince but I think we are there now and its in demand mainly from overseas.


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## CKK (10/5/20)

CaptainMachSnot said:


> Science is his favourite subject in yr 8. He has almost memorised the entire periodic table, and always comes out with little fun facts for us. And he loves watching Steven Universe


A kid after my own heart. Keep encouraging that and it can take him far. We badly need more children to study science and maths. We get so many job applicants who not only have trouble with visualising numbers and quantities but have a really basic view of how things work. One thing I found about most home brewers is that they love to build stuff and make things work so I can enjoy that.

When it comes to the periodic table you know it was one man by the name of Glenn T Seaborg who discovered 10 of the transuranium elements. I was one lucky student at a Sydney University Summer Science School many years ago to go to his lectures on this subject when I was 15 years old. In those two weeks us youngsters attended lectures by top scientists such as the vice chairman of Nasa (Mueller), Herman Bondi (mathematician), Sumner Miller (Why is it so TV demonstrator) and quite a few more. Left us (then young people) with a desire to just find out more and follow in their steps. Hope that something like that is still available to people like your son. Changed my life and left me thirsty for knowledge all of my life. Making brewing and dispensing equipment continues to throw up so many challenges and I am grateful for the grounding in sciences that help us find answers. Well and it makes you thirsty for beer too …...


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## CaptainMachSnot (10/5/20)

So is that how things are going, keep intertap as the budget item, and have the ultratap as the better one? I know that the ultra is also the next gen, and slightly improved model.


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## CKK (10/5/20)

CaptainMachSnot said:


> So is that how things are going, keep intertap as the budget item, and have the ultratap as the better one? I know that the ultra is also the next gen, and slightly improved model.


That is exactly right. Actually quite a number of improvements. One of the important things is to minimise the volume of beer retained in the tap as this is where the sudden reduction in pressure when its opened will allow the Co2 to come out of solution the quickest. So you will see the Ultra Tap has a very large shuttle to take up the available space.

Tell me about the bike in your pic?


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## Grmblz (10/5/20)

Meddo said:


> Hey @Grmblz, I agree with a lot of what you say but a few of those WTFs seem to be aimed at a few of my comments here - not sure if that's ambiguity on my part, misinterpretation on yours, or just disagreement. But here goes.
> 
> _Hi Meddo I did say "no offence intended" and I apologise if my comments caused any concern._
> 
> ...


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## FarsideOfCrazy (10/5/20)

Can someone please explain what 'laminar flow' is? It started when the Ultratap was released. I'd love to know what this means and how it effects the pour.

And before anyone thinks I'm having a go, I'm not, just curious how this is different/ better.


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## CaptainMachSnot (10/5/20)

Must say, this thread has actually been usefull. I now have an actual understanding about the different taps.

Its a '17 bmw s1000r. Only had my bike license for about 6 years. It is so much fun to ride, but unfortunately could be a quick way to loose said license. Mrs Capt. has one as well, pink flames on a ninja 250.


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## malt and barley blues (10/5/20)

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> Can someone please explain what 'laminar flow' is? It started when the Ultratap was released. I'd love to know what this means and how it effects the pour.
> 
> And before anyone thinks I'm having a go, I'm not, just curious how this is different/ better.


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## CaptainMachSnot (10/5/20)

I believe it is a less turbulent flow, resulting in more of the gas staying dissolved in the beer, and so you dont get massive unwanted heads and beer stays gassed in the glass


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## Grmblz (10/5/20)

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> Can someone please explain what 'laminar flow' is? It started when the Ultratap was released. I'd love to know what this means and how it effects the pour.
> 
> And before anyone thinks I'm having a go, I'm not, just curious how this is different/ better.


Actually it started in world war 2 with the wing design of the Mustang aircraft, just sayin.


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## CKK (10/5/20)

CaptainMachSnot said:


> Must say, this thread has actually been usefull. I now have an actual understanding about the different taps.
> 
> Its a '17 bmw s1000r. Only had my bike license for about 6 years. It is so much fun to ride, but unfortunately could be a quick way to loose said license. Mrs Capt. has one as well, pink flames on a ninja 250.
> View attachment 118121


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## CKK (10/5/20)

It is useful sometimes and its great to make contact with like minded people. I have an Aprilia Pegaso (650 single) with Akrapovich pipes on it that sound ever so sweet to me. However I have my eyes on the BMW RS1250 for some time now because that is one nice machine too.


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## CKK (10/5/20)

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> Can someone please explain what 'laminar flow' is? It started when the Ultratap was released. I'd love to know what this means and how it effects the pour.
> 
> And before anyone thinks I'm having a go, I'm not, just curious how this is different/ better.


On an aircraft wing you better have it because without it there will be no more lift and the machine will succumb to gravity. In a tap we want the beer to basically keep travelling forward and not deviating from its path which can cause tiny eddies where the pressure difference will help let the dissolved CO2 come out of solution and this results in foam. So places where the beer hits obstructions like the shuttle need to be the right shape to allow the flow to divide around it and keep moving forward rather than eddying. Also the contact surfaces for the liquid should not be completely smooth as this discourages the micro-eddies from forming where the liquid touches the surfaces. Same reason why you will never see an aircraft wing that is super smooth and shiny. Its all about stopping the fluid from curling back on itself when it moves.


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## Grmblz (10/5/20)

Hope this makes it easier to understand, imagine the air flow is beer, and turbulence brings CO2 out of solution, the bottom wing will create a lot more foam in the pour.




It's used on all sorts of things such as formula one racing cars. It's also how air brakes work on jet wings by disrupting the flow and creating drag to slow them down, wheel brakes alone would lead to some interesting landings.


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## Madscientist86 (10/5/20)

I personally don't care if beer comes out straight or sideways, laminar flow or not. As long as my beer gets from my kegs to my glass with some head. Beer has been poured into vessels for a very long time without laminar flow and has worked to please the masses. Maybe I just need laminar flow taps to be sold with free steak knives or a stand to hold my cup of tea while on my ladder to be convinced.


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## Grmblz (10/5/20)

@Madscientist86 Try using a beer engine to dispense pils, that might convince you. +1 for the steak knives though.


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## CKK (10/5/20)

Grmblz said:


> Actually it started in world war 2 with the wing design of the Mustang aircraft, just sayin.


You were sayin just right. My last aircraft was an Aerostar 600A and it had laminar flow wings. Makes for a very fast machine.


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## KegLand-com-au (11/5/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> The Ultra Tap is a true laminar flow tap which reduces foaming. We originally made the Intertap but that design was not able to achieve the laminar flow. So the Ultra Tap was made and it is the successor to the Intertap. We will soon have a bit more info coming out about this.




So what you are saying is that the Intertap is not as good as the Ultratap from this comment.

So what we need is a side by side test of the Nukatap and Ultratap to see which tap has laminar flow and reduces foaming the most. I can guarantee you that the Nukatap will win hands down every time. Just let us know when you would like to start the side by side testing and we would be more than happy to show the results in action.


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## KegLand-com-au (11/5/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> You were sayin just right. My last aircraft was an Aerostar 600A and it had laminar flow wings. Makes for a very fast machine.



I would say the nukatap shuttle looks much more aerodynamic and "wing" like than the shuttle from the ultratap.


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## CKK (11/5/20)

KegLand-com-au said:


> So what you are saying is that the Intertap is not as good as the Ultratap from this comment.
> 
> So what we need is a side by side test of the Nukatap and Ultratap to see which tap has laminar flow and reduces foaming the most. I can guarantee you that the Nukatap will win hands down every time. Just let us know when you would like to start the side by side testing and we would be more than happy to show the results in action.


The Ultra Tap is the next generation on from the Intertap for us and we are very happy with its performance. Its doing very nicely with its acceptance around the world. We don't need any of your tests as you have form in the past where you showed stuff purporting to be ours which was not (yes a tap was one of them). When www.kegking.cn shows our name hijacked in China pointing to your products then there is a credibitity problem that you need to address before trying this sort of stunt.


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## CKK (11/5/20)

KegLand-com-au said:


> I would say the nukatap shuttle looks much more aerodynamic and "wing" like than the shuttle from the ultratap.


I suppose you think a glossy wing is more laminar also. There is a bit more to aerodynamics than you think you can tell from looking at it.


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## KegLand-com-au (13/5/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> I suppose you think a glossy wing is more laminar also. There is a bit more to aerodynamics than you think you can tell from looking at it.



I don't think it's more laminate due to the glossy wing. I know it's produces more laminar flow because we have actually done the testing and we have already proven that it is more laminar which is why our customers get a better result with the Nukatap. 

Irrespective of what it looks like or how "glossy it is" the Nukatap is a superior product from a functional perspective and gives laminar flow and will save wasted beer that ends up going down the sink as foam. The Nukatap is truly innovative while the Ultratap is simply a re-branded Intertap with very little difference in performance.

I would agree with you there is a lot more to aerodynamics than being "glossy" which is why we have done so much work in this area to ensure the Nukatap actually functions better.


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## CKK (13/5/20)

KegLand-com-au said:


> I don't think it's more laminate due to the glossy wing. I know it's produces more laminar flow because we have actually done the testing and we have already proven that it is more laminar which is why our customers get a better result with the Nukatap.
> 
> Irrespective of what it looks like or how "glossy it is" the Nukatap is a superior product from a functional perspective and gives laminar flow and will save wasted beer that ends up going down the sink as foam. The Nukatap is truly innovative while the Ultratap is simply a re-branded Intertap with very little difference in performance.
> 
> I would agree with you there is a lot more to aerodynamics than being "glossy" which is why we have done so much work in this area to ensure the Nukatap actually functions better.


Well throw more lies and inaccuracies like you did on the Super Deluxe fridges and learn the difference between laminate and laminar. The Ultra Tap is not a re branded Intertap. It is a development based on the forward sealing principle but that is about it. Let’s leave it at that and let the results speak. You can assert whatever you like but we are content to let the products speak for themselves. We have bigger fish to fry.


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## splitice (13/5/20)

_Pics or it didnt happen._

But no seriously. This is exactly the point, people making claims. If the first pour is better, surely it can be shown in video...


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## CKK (13/5/20)

splitice said:


> _Pics or it didnt happen._
> 
> But no seriously. This is exactly the point, people making claims. If the first pour is better, surely it can be shown in video...


We did the video two years ago already with the inventor of the forward sealing tap whose patents we purchased to build the Ultra Tap and then refine it. Why would MicroMatic in the USA ask for the exclusive rights to sell it there and ask to put their name on it if it was not the goods. Doubtful that they would sell something with a plastic shuttle.


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## onemorecell (14/5/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> we are content to let the products speak for themselves.


Do the comparison then?


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## CKK (14/5/20)

onemorecell said:


> Do the comparison then?


We are against acquisition of Nukes - sorry


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## onemorecell (14/5/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> We are against acquisition of Nukes - sorry


I'm sure you guys can just each put a tap on a fridge and take it back after testing...


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## clickeral (14/5/20)

onemorecell said:


> I'm sure you guys can just each put a tap on a fridge and take it back after testing...



I'll happily take one of each and do an unbiased review  but I suspect some more well known people on here/youtubers should get first crack however 

Currently have 1 Perlick 540ss FC, 2x Kegking SS FC 2nd gen intertaps (I think) and 1x intertap SS FC from Kegland

All feel good and have had no issues with any of them, first 3 are currently in storage but will be back in service soon the last one is on my Ikegger Growler and gets used fairly often


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## Nullnvoid (14/5/20)

clickeral said:


> I'll happily take one of each and do an unbiased review



Sounds good, but I would love a biased review. Imagine both Kegland and Keg-King, just absolutely going to town on the competitors taps. It would be carnage. 

FWIW, I have the Kegland intertaps on my kegerator, which could be the same as the Keg-King ones and they pour fine, never had an issue, don't need to upgrade. Pull tap. Beer comes out. Beer gets drunk.


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## onemorecell (14/5/20)

Nullnvoid said:


> Sounds good, but I would love a biased review. Imagine both Kegland and Keg-King, just absolutely going to town on the competitors taps. It would be carnage.


i'll pay for that live stream


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## CKK (14/5/20)

onemorecell said:


> I'm sure you guys can just each put a tap on a fridge and take it back after testing...


Not taking the bait - sorry


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## onemorecell (14/5/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> Not taking the bait - sorry


What's the bait - you said you wanted to let the products speak for themselves?

Do you take us for a pack of morons, to suggest something and then just say some bullshit like "i dont want to buy a nukatap"?
And then now you pretend to take the high road?

Cmon mate it's your idea to let the products speak for themselves - why not do it?


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## CKK (14/5/20)

onemorecell said:


> What's the bait - you said you wanted to let the products speak for themselves?
> 
> Do you take us for a pack of morons, to suggest something and then just say some bullshit like "i dont want to buy a nukatap"?
> And then now you pretend to take the high road?
> ...


Short and sweet - they speak for themselves as they are selling very well and we have a lot of other things to do than to get into matches like this with businesses who have form of telling lies about our products (check the fridge thread) and even using our name in China to direct searches for Keg King to them (check www.kegking.cn).


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## KegLand-com-au (14/5/20)

onemorecell said:


> What's the bait - you said you wanted to let the products speak for themselves?
> 
> Do you take us for a pack of morons, to suggest something and then just say some bullshit like "i dont want to buy a nukatap"?
> And then now you pretend to take the high road?
> ...



I would totally agree with this. Just so we can be sure that the test are done in an unbiased way I think we need a representative from KK and KL during the testing and we take video of both. We have tried to ask the CEO for this type of comparison many times but all he comes up with is statements like "we are satisfied with our products" or "they are selling very well" or "we don't get into matches like this". 


So although the ceo makes big claims about his tap being "superior" its just strange to see him back down when asked to prove this. Our position remains the same. The Nukatap is a better designed tap that:
1. Reduces foaming especially on the first pour
2. Seals are more chemical resistant to wider range of beers such as very sour beers
3. When compared to the Ultratap the seals last longer meaning less maintenance

We are happy to do side by side comparison for all these tests and then release video on the topic but to avoid us being seen as biased we really need the CEO to participate.


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## wide eyed and legless (14/5/20)

I was half hoping that Keg Land would have done a side by side of the Nukatap and Ultratap, thats their usual MO. They are always good for a laugh. The keg one was the best, Robot arm doing 1,000,000 pulls on the tap a close second. 
Terminology all wrong, Pasivating, instead of pickling, the tiny robot welder they developed to go through the 35 mm hole. I suppose since John Guest told KL to retract a statement after they did a comparison they may be a little wary.


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## Garryg (14/5/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I was half hoping that Keg Land would have done a side by side of the Nukatap and Ultratap, thats their usual MO. They are always good for a laugh. The keg one was the best, Robot arm doing 1,000,000 pulls on the tap a close second.
> Terminology all wrong, Pasivating, instead of pickling, the tiny robot welder they developed to go through the 35 mm hole. I suppose since John Guest told KL to retract a statement after they did a comparison they may be a little wary.



You really are a one sided smart ass.


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## CKK (14/5/20)

KegLand-com-au said:


> I would totally agree with this. Just so we can be sure that the test are done in an unbiased way I think we need a representative from KK and KL during the testing and we take video of both. We have tried to ask the CEO for this type of comparison many times but all he comes up with is statements like "we are satisfied with our products" or "they are selling very well" or "we don't get into matches like this".
> 
> 
> So although the ceo makes big claims about his tap being "superior" its just strange to see him back down when asked to prove this. Our position remains the same. The Nukatap is a better designed tap that:
> ...


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## Madscientist86 (14/5/20)

I have reached out to brulosophy for their unbiased scientific commentary on this topic to see if there is actually any difference in taps for the modern day home brewer.


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## donald_trub (14/5/20)

I'd recommend not bringing the rest of the world into this. It's all getting a bit embarrassing for Aussie homebrewers. The market will sort itself out. YouTube reviews and comparisons will not doubt get released.


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## TheBeerBaron (14/5/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I was half hoping that Keg Land would have done a side by side of the Nukatap and Ultratap, thats their usual MO. They are always good for a laugh. The keg one was the best, Robot arm doing 1,000,000 pulls on the tap a close second.
> Terminology all wrong, Pasivating, instead of pickling, the tiny robot welder they developed to go through the 35 mm hole. I suppose since John Guest told KL to retract a statement after they did a comparison they may be a little wary.




WEAL do you really think the mini kegs (or any keg) aren't welded by some sort of machine? because the sure as sh*t aren't hand welded..


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## wide eyed and legless (15/5/20)

TheBeerBaron said:


> WEAL do you really think the mini kegs (or any keg) aren't welded by some sort of machine? because the sure as sh*t aren't hand welded..


I put a video up before you ever posted on AHB it was in the mini keg thread which one I can't remember. Now if that was a robot welding the mini-kegs then China is miles ahead of Japan in producing androids. I have been in lots of factory's in China and Vietnam most are very labour intensive. Being consistently loyal is one thing consistently gullible another, do you seriously believe that mini kegs are being welded from the inside by some sort of robot? On a production line!
If I had invented such a machine I wouldn't be importing cheap brewing gear from China, I would be cruising the world on a luxury yacht having drinks with Branson and the like.
Full size kegs being produced in China.

Kegs being produced in Germany, also notice no filler rod needed due to the thickness of the material far thicker than a mini keg which needs filler rod.


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## TheBeerBaron (15/5/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I put a video up before you ever posted on AHB it was in the mini keg thread which one I can't remember. Now if that was a robot welding the mini-kegs then China is miles ahead of Japan in producing androids. I have been in lots of factory's in China and Vietnam most are very labour intensive. Being consistently loyal is one thing consistently gullible another, do you seriously believe that mini kegs are being welded from the inside by some sort of robot? On a production line!
> If I had invented such a machine I wouldn't be importing cheap brewing gear from China, I would be cruising the world on a luxury yacht having drinks with Branson and the like.
> Full size kegs being produced in China.
> 
> Kegs being produced in Germany, also notice no filler rod needed due to the thickness of the material far thicker than a mini keg which needs filler rod.




There are machines doing the welds in these videos? So I am confused?


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## wide eyed and legless (15/5/20)

TheBeerBaron said:


> There are machines doing the welds in these videos? So I am confused?


From the inside? They are kegs, the video I posted on the mini keg thread the mini kegs were being welded by hand but they did revolve automatically. 
I do believe there probably are mini-kegs being welded on machines, there is automatic wire feed but definitely not from the inside. Even if you know nothing about welding, it still isn't logically sound.


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## Nullnvoid (15/5/20)

TheBeerBaron said:


> There are machines doing the welds in these videos? So I am confused?



Is there? Or are you only seeing what you want to see?


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## onemorecell (15/5/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I suppose since John Guest told KL to retract a statement after they did a comparison they may be a little wary.


companies should always be wary when doing any sort of comparison to another company's product - to the point where it's actually a stupid idea to do a comparison in any sort of marketing. the comparative advertising laws are strict af

That's why just about every comparison these days is to the same company's product (eg. duracell good ones run 10x longer vs their cheap shit)


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## TheBeerBaron (15/5/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> From the inside? They are kegs, the video I posted on the mini keg thread the mini kegs were being welded by hand but they did revolve automatically.
> I do believe there probably are mini-kegs being welded on machines, there is automatic wire feed but definitely not from the inside. Even if you know nothing about welding, it still isn't logically sound.



I am no welding expert, but you can get spot welders which reach in / around panels on cars for instance, the prongs of nozzles or whatever can be quite long and thin so it wasn't a great stretch of my imagination to thing something like this could be used to get inside a keg

all of this is definitely not relevant to this tap thread, but I am not sure it's relevant at all.. Is there an issue with the mini keg welds? I don't really care if a unicorn welded it. The welds in the 19l kegs I have look amazing so unless there's issues with the mini kegs, who really gives a sh*t?


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## Malted Mick (15/5/20)

Hi Guys I am suprised and amused by the crock regarding welding of kegs and even more suprised that their are no welders speaking up. With over 40 years of experience in the pressure welding industry I am amazed by some of the incorect comments on welding process's. Welding a stainless steel keg is a first year apprentice task is you have a qualified welding procedure/qualified welder and the right gear. It makes no difference if its a manual proceess, automated, robotic, orbital or whatever all long as you achieve the acceptance quality required. WEALS videos shows Tungsten Inert Gas Welding on a rotator, this gear has been around around for years. Their is no need to do internal welds if you have right gear, why weld from both sides if you can do from the outside. Piping is welded from the outside only all the time. These welds consistantly meet food grade or even oxygen service weld quality. No disrepect WEAL you are very knowledgeable but stick to brewing. The addition of filler material on no filler material is not dependent on thickness for starters, it depends on the procedure.


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## wide eyed and legless (15/5/20)

TheBeerBaron said:


> all of this is definitely not relevant to this tap thread, but I am not sure it's relevant at all.. Is there an issue with the mini keg welds? I don't really care if a unicorn welded it. The welds in the 19l kegs I have look amazing so unless there's issues with the mini kegs, who really gives a sh*t?


I never brought the kegs into it, you did. I posted the video to show how KL go about doing promotional videos by comparing a competitors product against their own and how unfair it is.
All my time in business I have never seen the like.
I can't fathom how you chose your allegiance being in Brisbane, and not knowing either company.
I am at the coal face in Springvale. I was buying from Keg King for years before Keg Land started, I saw lots of things, which I didn't like even then. You have seen how I have been called out for having a go at Keg Land, but when Keg Land started posting on this forum how much shit they threw at Keg King when Keg King had no right of reply. Maybe you like companies which act in an underhanded way, trying to get away with using others trade marks, or blatantly using another companies patent, without a thought for their wholesale/retail customers who have bought products in good faith using anothers trade mark or patent.
I have seen it called innovative, not what I would call it . There soon comes the day when the piper has to be paid.


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## MHB (15/5/20)

Malted Mick said:


> Hi Guys I am suprised and amused by the crock regarding welding of kegs and even more suprised that their are no welders speaking up. With over 40 years of experience in the pressure welding industry I am amazed by some of the incorect comments on welding process's. Welding a stainless steel keg is a first year apprentice task is you have a qualified welding procedure/qualified welder and the right gear. It makes no difference if its a manual proceess, automated, robotic, orbital or whatever all long as you achieve the acceptance quality required. WEALS videos shows Tungsten Inert Gas Welding on a rotator, this gear has been around around for years. Their is no need to do internal welds if you have right gear, why weld from both sides if you can do from the outside. Piping is welded from the outside only all the time. These welds consistantly meet food grade or even oxygen service weld quality. No disrepect WEAL you are very knowledgeable but stick to brewing. The addition of filler material on no filler material is not dependent on thickness for starters, it depends on the procedure.


Amazing how good the weld on the inside of a well purged keg can look.
I learned to purge a keg and weld all the fittings in before cutting the top off to make a keggel, saved a bunch of cleaning up and grinding.
Mark


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## MHB (15/5/20)

PS
Had a look at an Intertap on Wednesday, personal opinion is it was a piece of shit I wouldn't put beer through (know nothing about who made it and care less) the internal finish was as rough as guts. Particularly the shuttle, machining ridges all over it, there the slot was cut for the actuator handle goes there were metal feathers you coy cut yourself on.
The beer is coming out of a round tube being split into 4 flow paths over/through/around the shuttle and actuator then remerging into the spout. Any talk of laminar flow is a joke, not even an attempt as constant volume or non turbulent flow that I could see. The sort of thing you get when a machinist comes up with a design that is cheap and easy to make without any regard for the flow dynamics of beer. Design and build quality is guaranteed to cause breakout (that's foaming for the uninitiated) 
Ok they are cheap give them that, I have Brumby taps and I know they are 4 or 5 times the price but when you take both apart you can see why.
Not even suggesting people buy professional taps (I can hear asholes snapping shut all over the country) but Jesus 7 pages of detailed comparison between cow flop and horse turd.
Mark


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## CKK (15/5/20)

MHB said:


> PS
> Had a look at an Intertap on Wednesday, personal opinion is it was a piece of shit I wouldn't put beer through (know nothing about who made it and care less) the internal finish was as rough as guts. Particularly the shuttle, machining ridges all over it, there the slot was cut for the actuator handle goes there were metal feathers you coy cut yourself on.
> The beer is coming out of a round tube being split into 4 flow paths over/through/around the shuttle and actuator then remerging into the spout. Any talk of laminar flow is a joke, not even an attempt as constant volume or non turbulent flow that I could see. The sort of thing you get when a machinist comes up with a design that is cheap and easy to make without any regard for the flow dynamics of beer. Design and build quality is guaranteed to cause breakout (that's foaming for the uninitiated)
> Ok they are cheap give them that, I have Brumby taps and I know they are 4 or 5 times the price but when you take both apart you can see why.
> ...


There are a lot of things out there labelled Intertap. Many non-genuine ones imported from China. Some even had Intertap with Flow Control. So not sure what you have but does not sound like a real one. The Intertap was and is not a laminar flow tap.


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## MHB (15/5/20)

Right and I remember the fake Micromatic regs to, not to mention gas bottles with swarf in them, non functional residual pressure valves... talking about the tap I was looking at with intertap printed on it.
If you own the IP and someone is making crap knockoffs its your problem to fix, not mine to prove who made the tap before having an opinion on it.
Haven't looked at the internals of any of the others under discussion, wouldn't expect anything better.


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## CKK (15/5/20)

MHB said:


> Right and I remember the fake Micromatic regs to, not to mention gas bottles with swarf in them, non functional residual pressure valves... talking about the tap I was looking at with intertap printed on it.
> If you own the IP and someone is making crap knockoffs its your problem to fix, not mine to prove who made the tap before having an opinion on it.
> Haven't looked at the internals of any of the others under discussion, wouldn't expect anything better.


Well I have no idea where you bought your "Intertap" but we only sell the genuine article. Sadly we cannot control what is made in China. We are happy to stand behind the quality of our products and try our best to make sure our customers get value for their money. If you get a watch that says Rolex and look at it and its badly made do you blame the people who make and sell Rolex?


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## TheBeerBaron (15/5/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I never brought the kegs into it, you did. I posted the video to show how KL go about doing promotional videos by comparing a competitors product against their own and how unfair it is.
> All my time in business I have never seen the like.
> I can't fathom how you chose your allegiance being in Brisbane, and not knowing either company.
> I am at the coal face in Springvale. I was buying from Keg King for years before Keg Land started, I saw lots of things, which I didn't like even then. You have seen how I have been called out for having a go at Keg Land, but when Keg Land started posting on this forum how much shit they threw at Keg King when Keg King had no right of reply. Maybe you like companies which act in an underhanded way, trying to get away with using others trade marks, or blatantly using another companies patent, without a thought for their wholesale/retail customers who have bought products in good faith using anothers trade mark or patent.
> I have seen it called innovative, not what I would call it . There soon comes the day when the piper has to be paid.



You specifically mentioned the welding in your post and included a video link.. so, yeah, you bought up kegs champ!

I don't have an allegiance as you clearly do. Like I said to Captain Keg King elsewhere, the minute he has something I want & need, I will buy it

You obviously have been told a story or interpreted one about what happened with the divorce but I honestly could give two sh*ts. I think you've chosen sides and it it just burns you that KegLand make more stuff people want than KegKing 

This whole 'right of reply' Keg King was blocked blah blah blah line is so tired. You know what their right of reply is? making stuff people want that's better than the competition... and I am sorry, but on this topic of Inter/Ultra tap, the Ultra is the equivalent of copying someones homework and changing it a bit to try and get away with it. At least KegLand put some effort into attempting to improving the design. 

Also, It's funny that with your 'all your time in business' you are still somehow surprised that it is RUTHLESS and no one cares about anyones hurt feelings. 

Keg King should be thankful they got to keep the original Fermentasaurus design. Maybe the people at KegLand should stay on their Christmas Card list


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## CKK (16/5/20)

TheBeerBaron said:


> You specifically mentioned the welding in your post and included a video link.. so, yeah, you bought up kegs champ!
> 
> I don't have an allegiance as you clearly do. Like I said to Captain Keg King elsewhere, the minute he has something I want & need, I will buy it
> 
> ...


Why on earth should Keg King be thankful for something that was developed in house and paid for fully by Keg King??? In any business employees come and go and sometimes even get fired. That does not mean they can take things or ideas with them which the business paid for and owns. Both Intertap and the Ultra Tap have the original design coming from Ventmatic. Keg King paid for the rights to manufacture this and has improved it. These things are irrefutably provable and no amount of railing here can change this.


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## Madscientist86 (16/5/20)

KK were selling the intertap without the rights ever since the taps release, a chinese copy of the ventmatic before smoothing things over with the original inventor of the ventmatic. KK seemed to paid more to gain the rights for a product they originally copied in the first place to claim as their own. Made some tweaks and now we have the ultratap, an aerodynamically designed beer tap. I wonder how long they would have kept selling a counterfeited product if the divorced never happened. I'm still wondering who is Slugworth and who is Willy Wonka of this beer world.


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## CKK (16/5/20)

Madscientist86 said:


> KK were selling the intertap without the rights ever since the taps release, a chinese copy of the ventmatic before smoothing things over with the original inventor of the ventmatic. KK seemed to paid more to gain the rights for a product they originally copied in the first place to claim as their own. Made some tweaks and now we have the ultratap, an aerodynamically designed beer tap. I wonder how long they would have kept selling a counterfeited product if the divorced never happened. I'm still wondering who is Slugworth and who is Willy Wonka of this beer world.


When I became involved royalties were being paid but Ventmatic wished to sell the rights. We purchased them and with Ventmatic assistance a new design was implemented to make a laminar flow tap which became the Ultra Tap. There was no divorce or split despite what posters here keep repeating.


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## fdsaasdf (16/5/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> When I became involved royalties were being paid but Ventmatic wished to sell the rights. We purchased them and with Ventmatic assistance a new design was implemented to make a laminar flow tap which became the Ultra Tap. There was no divorce or split despite what posters here keep repeating.


Is that implying that before you were involved (in the days of kegking123) that royalties weren't being paid?


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## CKK (16/5/20)

fdsaasdf said:


> Is that implying that before you were involved (in the days of kegking123) that royalties weren't being paid?


What is kegking 123? Keg King paid all royalties due but there was a Hong Kong based business not belonging to Keg King which was selling these things internationally using our name and I know that Ventmatic had issues there. This business still uses our name as www.kegking.cn and I suggest you search it and see where it points you. We are really disgusted as I think any decent human being would be that the identity of an Australian company is being used and abused like this out of China even now. Totally shameless and opportunistic.


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## Ballaratguy (17/5/20)

onemorecell said:


> companies should always be wary when doing any sort of comparison to another company's product - to the point where it's actually a stupid idea to do a comparison in any sort of marketing. the comparative advertising laws are strict af
> 
> That's why just about every comparison these days is to the same company's product (eg. duracell good ones run 10x longer vs their cheap shit)


I used to be involved in sales in a highly competitive market and we were always taught to NOT shit can the competitors product
It only belittles your own standing


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## CKK (17/5/20)

Ballaratguy said:


> I used to be involved in sales in a highly competitive market and we were always taught to NOT shit can the competitors product
> It only belittles your own standing


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## CKK (17/5/20)

That is quite valid. Its also the reason why I have no interest to engage in any stunts as suggested earlier here no matter how the poster tried to frame it. Its just not a business like approach. Competition will always be with us but when things are done like they were with kegs and taps supposed to be ours but were not then its easy to see that desperation to score. The BS about the KK super deluxe fridges was just another example of the sort of ignorance and sour grapes to which people have already woken up to.


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## sponge (17/5/20)

MHB said:


> PS
> Had a look at an Intertap on Wednesday, personal opinion is it was a piece of shit I wouldn't put beer through (know nothing about who made it and care less) the internal finish was as rough as guts. Particularly the shuttle, machining ridges all over it, there the slot was cut for the actuator handle goes there were metal feathers you coy cut yourself on.
> The beer is coming out of a round tube being split into 4 flow paths over/through/around the shuttle and actuator then remerging into the spout. Any talk of laminar flow is a joke, not even an attempt as constant volume or non turbulent flow that I could see. The sort of thing you get when a machinist comes up with a design that is cheap and easy to make without any regard for the flow dynamics of beer. Design and build quality is guaranteed to cause breakout (that's foaming for the uninitiated)
> Ok they are cheap give them that, I have Brumby taps and I know they are 4 or 5 times the price but when you take both apart you can see why.
> ...


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## CKK (17/5/20)

That is quite valid. Its also the reason why I have no interest to engage in any stunts as suggested earlier here no matter how the poster tried to frame it. Its just not a business like approach. Competition will always be with us but when things are done like they were with kegs and taps supposed to be ours but were not then its easy to see the desperation to score. The bullshit about the KK super deluxe fridges was just another example of the sort of ignorance and sour grapes that


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## wide eyed and legless (17/5/20)

TheBeerBaron said:


> You specifically mentioned the welding in your post and included a video link.. so, yeah, you bought up kegs champ!
> You obviously have been told a story or interpreted one about what happened with the divorce but I honestly could give two sh*ts. I think you've chosen sides and it it just burns you that KegLand make more stuff people want than KegKing
> 
> This whole 'right of reply' Keg King was blocked blah blah blah line is so tired. You know what their right of reply is? making stuff people want that's better than the competition... and I am sorry, but on this topic of Inter/Ultra tap, the Ultra is the equivalent of copying someones homework and changing it a bit to try and get away with it. At least KegLand put some effort into attempting to improving the design.
> ...



I was pointing out the MO of KL videos full of untruths, unless you are The Beer Baron. Nothing to do with the bullshit spouted about the way they are welded.

Right of reply was blocked, even though KK was in credit with the sponsors payment. As for the Inter/ Ultra both designs belong to KK, both were designed by Brad Amidzich.
What improvements have Keg Land made to the design? I will say they have had a knee jerk reaction to losing what they have always claimed to be their Gold Standard flagship design the Intertap, and quickly come up with the Nukatap.

Business is ruthless, I have seen a lot of businesses fail, and I do feel sorry for those who have lost everything, money, house, marriage but at least they are still the right side of the grass, and if they are young enough they can have another crack. But I have never seen anyone using bullshit videos to make their product look better, it just isn't done.



Madscientist86 said:


> I'm still wondering who is Slugworth and who is Willy Wonka of this beer world.



I reckon you could just about hold your breath waiting to find out, dark clouds are already on the horizon.


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## Grmblz (17/5/20)

FACT! Intertap was pushed as "the dogs bollocks" beer tap by KL, just read the posts.
FACT! Turns out it wasn't theirs to sell, such is life.
FACT! Now they are pushing the Nuka as "the dogs bollocks" beer tap, believe what you want to, but looking at the Maltzilla, pushed as "the dogs bollocks" of mills yet needing one of its plastic mounting lugs snapped off because of a design flaw (just read the thread) it doesn't inspire confidence.

All the spruiking coming out of KL about stuff that is not fit for purpose, the 100L boiler that only had one 1.5" port??? either element or tap? Honestly what fkn use was it, Oh now it has two 2" ports, no worries Kee, happy to help out mate, maybe run yer next hair brained ideas past a few of the older hands here.
fwiw a badly designed plastic mill is about as much use as a one port electric boiler. and while we're at it how much are you paying the canzilla guys for the R&D work they're doing for you? Oh spray shield! That's a good idea. If you had used the bloody thing just ONCE! you would have been aware of the issue of foam being thrown everywhere, and yet it gets released and only after owners come up with with their own spray shields does KL come up with a solution (copied from a punter, did he get a consideration for his IP, no of course not, ideas are free aren't they?)

Advice for any noobs/tossers/morons/mouthbreeders about to comment on me being just a KL knocker, READ MY PREVIOUS POSTS! 
I'm over idiots reading a single post and banging on, read the thread! Then read other comments from the poster before commenting, and making a complete dick out of yourself.
Cheers G


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## Garryg (17/5/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I think with your lack of analytical/critical thinking your life must be hell on April Fools day.
> Why is it so hard for you to grasp, I was pointing out the MO of KL videos full of untruths, unless you are The Beer Baron. Nothing to do with the bullshit spouted about the way they are welded.
> 
> Right of reply was blocked, even though KK was in credit with the sponsors payment. As for the Inter/ Ultra both designs belong to KK, both were designed by Brad Amidzich.
> ...


I reckon your so far up their ass you must be cleaning their teeth.


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## wide eyed and legless (17/5/20)

Garryg said:


> I reckon your so far up their ass you must be cleaning their teeth.


Dental floss anyone. Is that the best you can come up with, no debate, no ideas of your own?


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## Garryg (17/5/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Dental floss anyone. Is that the best you can come up with, no debate, no ideas of your own?


I have purchased stuff from both and find KL to have a much better inventory and cheaper delivery prices. On 2 occasions I have received a product with a problem they replaced it no questions, in fact I received one before I had a chance to send the faulty one back. KK don't even stock oak Barrels of which I get a few. I don't know how you are connected to KK but you seem to impart your allergy superior knowledge about everything. Just put a sock in it and let the punters pick for themselves.


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## wide eyed and legless (17/5/20)

Garryg said:


> I have purchased stuff from both and find KL to have a much better inventory and cheaper delivery prices. On 2 occasions I have received a product with a problem they replaced it no questions, in fact I received one before I had a chance to send the faulty one back. KK don't even stock oak Barrels of which I get a few. I don't know how you are connected to KK but you seem to impart your allergy superior knowledge about everything. Just put a sock in it and let the punters pick for themselves.


Punters do pick for themselves, as do I, and I have an opinion, if you don't like it press the ignore button. Simple.


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## Garryg (17/5/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Punters do pick for themselves, as do I, and I have an opinion, if you don't like it press the ignore button. Simple.


You don't have an opinion you have an agenda.


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## TheBeerBaron (17/5/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> Why on earth should Keg King be thankful for something that was developed in house and paid for fully by Keg King??? In any business employees come and go and sometimes even get fired. That does not mean they can take things or ideas with them which the business paid for and owns. Both Intertap and the Ultra Tap have the original design coming from Ventmatic. Keg King paid for the rights to manufacture this and has improved it. These things are irrefutably provable and no amount of railing here can change this.



I don't think it's unreasonable to acknowledge that (from my understanding) the people, or some of the people, who are now at KegLand, developed the Fermentasaurus and the Kegasaurus aka Fermenterking Jr while employed at KegKing? So yeah, you do have these people to thank in some way. Doing so doesn't invalidate your argument that they were employed with KegKing at the time so you keep the designs. 



wide eyed and legless said:


> Right of reply was blocked, even though KK was in credit with the sponsors payment. As for the Inter/ Ultra both designs belong to KK, both were designed by Brad Amidzich.
> What improvements have Keg Land made to the design? I will say they have had a knee jerk reaction to losing what they have always claimed to be their Gold Standard flagship design the Intertap, and quickly come up with the Nukatap.



So inter was a straight copy/paste of the ventmatic. Ventmatic got p*ssed, agreements were made, rights purchased, All good. Slight changes made, new name being the Ultra. SO my point that they are copies is right even if they paid the price for it and it's all legit which I have no doubt about. 

KegLand have come with the new shuttle design & material and a change on the exterior. The jury is out on whether they are as good as stated but my point is they're trying new stuff.. FermZilla, Cannular, MaltZilla, RAPT fridge etc. etc. Even if some of these aren't perfect out of the gate you can't knock the effort. Except you do. A lot.


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## CKK (18/5/20)

TheBeerBaron said:


> I don't think it's unreasonable to acknowledge that (from my understanding) the people, or some of the people, who are now at KegLand, developed the Fermentasaurus and the Kegasaurus aka Fermenterking Jr while employed at KegKing? So yeah, you do have these people to thank in some way. Doing so doesn't invalidate your argument that they were employed with KegKing at the time so you keep the designs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


For your information the Kegasaurus design was examined and found to be not fit for purpose as well as being potentially dangerous (PRV in the coupling so inoperative when coupled). It was dropped and the product shredded because it was just rubbish. The FK Junior is based on the patented Cypet/ZEG design which does a really great job. The FS was not exactly original thinking and we quickly dropped the old valve/lid design because it too was rubbish as the KL claque so often pointed out. You cannot have it both ways. Thanks for what then? 

The Intertap and Ultra Tap were made for different reasons and apart from sharing the forward sealing aspect the Ultra functions better. We never hid the fact that it was a design which we purchased and we improved it so that our clients can get the best pour which we can provide for their money. In fact we proudly made a video with the inventor so all could see the pedigree of the faucet.

Can you see that little by little you are running out of where to go? I could spend time knocking the stuff you mention here but others have seen the reality the existence of which seems to bother you a lot. When one business is desperate to drag another into comparison matches then its pretty obvious they want to use the "me too" thing to promote their own. If it is so good then just let the market decide which in the end it always does no matter what.

In terms of new stuff we have got a few nice things coming and I am grateful to the brewing community out there who keep giving us new ideas. Just want to make sure that when it goes out that it works properly.


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## wide eyed and legless (18/5/20)

Garryg said:


> You don't have an opinion you have an agenda.


Opinions, agenda, call it what you like, I don't hide them. Unlike Kee and Keg Land, Kee registering trade marks in his name using KK company funds, a couple of years before leaving KK. Check out the Keg Land name on ASIC. KK mailing lists appearing on KL computers, overseas accounts set up. Kee spouting that he would bury KK within 3 months, that was two years ago.
Me, I don't like hidden agendas, and I like that KK just didn't lie down, they fought back.


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## TheBeerBaron (18/5/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> Thanks for what then?



For having something to improve on at all? Are you too proud to admit that one simple truth? If these people never worked for KegKing you wouldn't have had the Fermentasaurus to work with, good bad or ugly. 



CEO Keg King said:


> The Intertap and Ultra Tap were made for different reasons and apart from sharing the forward sealing aspect the Ultra functions better. We never hid the fact that it was a design which we purchased and we improved it so that our clients can get the best pour which we can provide for their money. In fact we proudly made a video with the inventor so all could see the pedigree of the faucet.



I simply said these taps are copies (now licensed ones) of another design. I am not saying they're bad (I own 3x intertaps) or that they don't work well just that they are not an original KegKing invention.



CEO Keg King said:


> I could spend time knocking the stuff you mention here but others have seen the reality the existence of which seems to bother you a lot.



I mentioned these products for WEAL as he seems to rain down the hate on anything KegLand bring out. I did say by mentioning them, it doesn't mean they are good or better than anything else.


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## CKK (18/5/20)

TheBeerBaron said:


> For having something to improve on at all? Are you too proud to admit that one simple truth? If these people never worked for KegKing you wouldn't have had the Fermentasaurus to work with, good bad or ugly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Have not seen you calling anyone out for copying our snubnose idea? Enough said.


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## onemorecell (18/5/20)

malt and barley blues said:


> can't understand your thinking on starting a war


proof is in the pudding. this has been glorious.
forums finally back to the good old days of 2018.


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## onemorecell (18/5/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> That _[NOT shit canning the competitors product]_ is quite valid. Its also the reason why I have no interest to engage in any stunts as suggested earlier here no matter how the poster tried to frame it. Its just not a business like approach.





CEO Keg King said:


> For your information the Kegasaurus design was examined and found to be not fit for purpose as well as being potentially dangerous



Righto.


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## beercoder (18/5/20)

CEO Keg King is quite clearly the Donald Trump of home brewing. He spends more time blaming the previous administration by posting on AHB than running his business. All his products are beautiful, perfect products, the best.


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## CKK (18/5/20)

beercoder said:


> CEO Keg King is quite clearly the Donald Trump of home brewing. He spends more time blaming the previous administration by posting on AHB than running his business. All his products are beautiful, perfect products, the best.


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## CKK (18/5/20)

Sarcasm is not a particularly highly developed form of wit is it now? If you are looking for lies try the posts on the Super Deluxe fridges and you will find them there aplenty.


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## beercoder (18/5/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> Sarcasm is not a particularly highly developed form of wit is it now? If you are looking for lies try the posts on the Super Deluxe fridges and you will find them there aplenty.



Thanks for reinforcing my point.


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## CKK (18/5/20)

beercoder said:


> Thanks for reinforcing my point.


You know for every comment that I get from people who are not here for the truth, information and the camaraderie of the brewing fraternity I get a hell of a lot more who wish me well for standing up and not letting BS go unchallenged. FYI it is not my business and I don't take any pay for what I do but I take great delight in leading a really great team of people who are determined to do their best for our customers. Its not easy being a manufacturer in Australia at the best of times but we do it and a lot of people especially now commend us for this and encourage us. Not sure why you come to denigrate but would be happy to chat with you personally to see if maybe you might see things differently with a little more information. Wish you a pleasant evening and hope we can talk.


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## blacktop™ (18/5/20)

Jesus just shut up already.

I was and still currently am a customer of both KK & KL but after all the crap that gets posted by the KK crew it’s gonna be so much harder to process any future purchases with KK. It’s almost at the point where I’d rather deal with KL being consistently out of stock than purchase from KK.

Our club had a chat about this and we all feel the same way. It’s absolutely pathetic.

You probably think you’re vigilantes if the Aussie home brew world, spreading the truth about how kee made up some stories about a fridge and how KL are trying to steal your customers by making a Chinese website using your name...who cares?!! I can guarantee you haven’t lost a single Australian sale from that website. In fact, I recon most people didn’t even know the website existed until you guys started sharing it in every post you make.

If I were you I’d seriously be considering the way you conduct yourself online. You claim to be the CEO of keg king but you’re acting like a teenage girl.


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## CKK (18/5/20)

Beercoder - just got a message from a member here that you work for Kegland. So I guess that explains a lot if true.


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## CKK (18/5/20)

blacktop™ said:


> Jesus just shut up already.
> 
> I was and still currently am a customer of both KK & KL but after all the crap that gets posted by the KK crew it’s gonna be so much harder to process any future purchases with KK. It’s almost at the point where I’d rather deal with KL being consistently out of stock than purchase from KK.
> 
> ...


Thanks for venturing an opinion about what we think but have to disappoint you in your guessing. Your choice where you buy and what you think but we will continue to provide a good selection and service and the rest is irrelevant. Your guarantee is useless internationally where this matters most and has damaged us. So let me know which club and I will be happy to front and explain our actions. Not very familiar with actions of present day teenage girls so leave that to your experience. We just have a job to get on with and do our best to service those who like what we offer.


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## MHB (18/5/20)

Please this is a beer forum, can we leave the issues between the kegs at home for a while.
It really is pissing off a lot of people.
I think that apart from a couple of exceptions not many people are all that interested.
Sure answer questions about your products when asked, launch new goodies... but for Gods sake quit the non stop slanging match.
There are no winners in this type of discussion, politics and religion would be much safer topics!
Mark


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## CKK (18/5/20)

Fully agree so just tell those who continue to bait where to go and get back to talking about taps which is where this started.


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## donald_trub (18/5/20)

It's getting to the point where I want both KK and KL to **** off and stay off this forum. If we want to reach you we'll reach out to you via other channels. Your dirty laundry has killed the forums completely and you're offering nothing positive.


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## fdsaasdf (18/5/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> Beercoder - just got a message from a member here that you work for Kegland. So I guess that explains a lot if true.


@beercoder has stated previously they are working with kegland on electronics for fermentation chambers 

this thread pretty much captures the entire sentiment of AHB - who even needs a topic?


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## TheBeerBaron (19/5/20)

Yes, so the thread asks is there a difference between Inter/Ultra taps and we can put a line under it and say yes, minor design changes however they are very similar and probably both do the job well. If you already had Intertaps not sure it would be worth buying new taps of any breed however if you are in the market then I would consider the Ultratap or any other options like the Nukatap or Perlick etc. etc.


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## Kenf (19/5/20)

I was interested in some more Intertaps ( why Intertap? Because I have the alternative spouts). So I looked on here and it’s the same old crap!
yesterday I had seen similar stuff on FB but about a person I actually respect! Its tiresome! So now I’m looking at holding off buying anything to do with KK or KL! And as you would know CEO KK I regularly praise your products! And for the lurkers from KL I have certainly given your stuff high praise if justified. 
but now I’m over it!
might find me some Perlicks on EBay!
cheers


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## Grmblz (19/5/20)

Kenf said:


> I was interested in some more Intertaps ( why Intertap? Because I have the alternative spouts). So I looked on here and it’s the same old crap!
> yesterday I had seen similar stuff on FB but about a person I actually respect! Its tiresome! So now I’m looking at holding off buying anything to do with KK or KL! And as you would know CEO KK I regularly praise your products! And for the lurkers from KL I have certainly given your stuff high praise if justified.
> but now I’m over it!
> might find me some Perlicks on EBay!
> cheers


Unfortunately the "Perlicks" you find on ebay wont actually be Perlicks, or might be, but how do you know? It's bloody ridiculous the whole Chinese rip off thing, the only way you can be sure of getting the real deal apparently is from the owner of the design (in this case I believe it's KK) or a bona fide re-seller, and if you were after ultra's that would be KK or Micro-matic, but I don't know of any approved re-sellers for Inters. I'm like you in as much as I have 6 Inters with the different spouts, bought from KL in good faith, are they genuine Inter's? I have no way of knowing, am I going to bin them when they work as advertised, nope, if I need more I'll get one from KK and compare, Nuka's? are the spouts interchangeable with the Inter's? And do I really want a plastic shuttle, given their plastic malt mill issues I don't think so.
fwiw I'm happy with my Inter's, long shanks with finned internal heat sinks keep them cold and first pours are no problem. I recently built a 4 banger for a mate and we used Ultra's, honestly I can't tell the difference, that's not to say there isn't one only that I can't tell, my setup pours 4 different beers in 4 different ways, as does my mates, carb levels, serving pressure, style? so how do you compare different taps?
If you open the tap and beer comes out what's the problem? We are not running pubs/bars etc, we can wait a couple of minutes for that first pour to settle if necessary.
Get over it guysngirls you don't have them six deep at the bar (yeh been there done that) so stop stressing about a 12 second pour or whatever, and enjoy the fact that you can buy a half way decent tap for less than $200!


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## Kenf (19/5/20)

Grmblz said:


> Unfortunately the "Perlicks" you find on ebay wont actually be Perlicks, or might be, but how do you know? It's bloody ridiculous the whole Chinese rip off thing, the only way you can be sure of getting the real deal apparently is from the owner of the design (in this case I believe it's KK) or a bona fide re-seller, and if you were after ultra's that would be KK or Micro-matic, but I don't know of any approved re-sellers for Inters. I'm like you in as much as I have 6 Inters with the different spouts, bought from KL in good faith, are they genuine Inter's? I have no way of knowing, am I going to bin them when they work as advertised, nope, if I need more I'll get one from KK and compare, Nuka's? are the spouts interchangeable with the Inter's? And do I really want a plastic shuttle, given their plastic malt mill issues I don't think so.
> fwiw I'm happy with my Inter's, long shanks with finned internal heat sinks keep them cold and first pours are no problem. I recently built a 4 banger for a mate and we used Ultra's, honestly I can't tell the difference, that's not to say there isn't one only that I can't tell, my setup pours 4 different beers in 4 different ways, as does my mates, carb levels, serving pressure, style? so how do you compare different taps?
> If you open the tap and beer comes out what's the problem? We are not running pubs/bars etc, we can wait a couple of minutes for that first pour to settle if necessary.
> Get over it guysngirls you don't have them six deep at the bar (yeh been there done that) so stop stressing about a 12 second pour or whatever, and enjoy the fact that you can buy a half way decent tap for less than $200!


Yeah I know mate! I. Just want a sensible discussion regarding taps but instead it degenerated into the same old nonsense.
i was kidding about Perlicks off EBay


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## CaptainMachSnot (20/5/20)

Grmblz said:


> Unfortunately the "Perlicks" you find on ebay wont actually be Perlicks, or might be, but how do you know? It's bloody ridiculous the whole Chinese rip off thing, the only way you can be sure of getting the real deal apparently is from the owner of the design (in this case I believe it's KK) or a bona fide re-seller, and if you were after ultra's that would be KK or Micro-matic, but I don't know of any approved re-sellers for Inters. I'm like you in as much as I have 6 Inters with the different spouts, bought from KL in good faith, are they genuine Inter's? I have no way of knowing, am I going to bin them when they work as advertised, nope, if I need more I'll get one from KK and compare, Nuka's? are the spouts interchangeable with the Inter's? And do I really want a plastic shuttle, given their plastic malt mill issues I don't think so.
> fwiw I'm happy with my Inter's, long shanks with finned internal heat sinks keep them cold and first pours are no problem. I recently built a 4 banger for a mate and we used Ultra's, honestly I can't tell the difference, that's not to say there isn't one only that I can't tell, my setup pours 4 different beers in 4 different ways, as does my mates, carb levels, serving pressure, style? so how do you compare different taps?
> If you open the tap and beer comes out what's the problem? We are not running pubs/bars etc, we can wait a couple of minutes for that first pour to settle if necessary.
> Get over it guysngirls you don't have them six deep at the bar (yeh been there done that) so stop stressing about a 12 second pour or whatever, and enjoy the fact that you can buy a half way decent tap for less than $200!


What sort of heatsinks are you using? Are they special purpose, or large ones made for electronics? Be interested to see what you did, because I think the cooling of taps will make more of a difference than the type of tap will. Haven't put in a fan yet, but shall be soon


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## KegLand-com-au (20/5/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> Have not seen you calling anyone out for copying our snubnose idea? Enough said.



Can you please shed some light on this CEO what idea are you talking about? What date did you have this idea?


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## awfulknauful (20/5/20)

KegLand-com-au said:


> Can you please shed some light on this CEO what idea are you talking about? What date did you have this idea?


I would hazard a guess, the idea of a fermenter without a dump valve. Could it about the same date that Perlick twigged you had infringed on a patent of theirs.


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## KegLand-com-au (20/5/20)

awfulknauful said:


> I would hazard a guess, the idea of a fermenter without a dump valve. Could it about the same date that Perlick twigged you had infringed on a patent of theirs.



Thanks awfulknauful, I am not looking for a guess. I would like the CEO to respond to this one. If Perlick have an issue with any of our products they should contact us. If they feel we are in breach of any of their patents I would suggest they follow it up with us.


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## awfulknauful (21/5/20)

KegLand-com-au said:


> Thanks awfulknauful, I am not looking for a guess. I would like the CEO to respond to this one. If Perlick have an issue with any of our products they should contact us. If they feel we are in breach of any of their patents I would suggest they follow it up with us.


Look sport your only fifty metres away from KK, grow some balls, walk down there and ask the CEO yourself. Don't bring your spiteful tittle tattle on this forum. If you want to keep the legal obligations you have with Perlick quiet, I suggest you call a staff meeting and remind them, loose lips sink ships.


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## JDW81 (21/5/20)

Surely it’s time this thread is put to it’s death as it has now denigrated into yet another KK vs KL slanging match.

KK and KL - the vast majority of us couldn’t give a shite about your legal battle. Keep it in the courts, and off the forum please. If you’ve got answers to questions about your products the answer them, but otherwise spare us from the constant bickering. Put your efforts into making high quality and innovative products Instead.

For everyone else who chimes in with their various allegiances, can we please keep to brewing and brewing related topics without heading down the same old worn out road. 

Blindfold is on, fire at will.

JD


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## onemorecell (21/5/20)

awfulknauful said:


> Don't bring your spiteful tittle tattle on this forum. If you want to keep the legal obligations you have with Perlick quiet, I suggest you call a staff meeting and remind them, loose lips sink ships.


you did kind of bring it up though...


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## Nullnvoid (21/5/20)

onemorecell said:


> you did kind of bring it up though...



You would say that wouldn't you? You do work for Kegland after all!


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## KegLand-com-au (21/5/20)

I do find it a bit unfair that "*onemorecell"* is being invalidated because he has done work for us. Many people in the industry have done work for us. To be fair onemorecell had done some software development for us as he is a great software developer and he does fantastic work and not only that he made this clear by disclosing this in one of his other posts.

He is not an employee of KegLand and he speaks his own mind.

KegLand also work with many other people in the industry too. We have hired other programmers in the past, web designers, graphic designers, people to assist with mould design, we have hired engineers to assist with various testing validation. We even hired Dr Smurto for recipe development. Do you think it's fair that because we have hired so many of these people from our own customer base that all these customers should then lose their ability to comment in the forum and be engaged in the discussion. I do think this is a bit unfair.

If anything I think the people who have worked with us probably understand our company the best as they have met our staff, know what we are like and probably are the best people to give an informed opinion rather than spreading rumours about something they have heard.

What about customers who purchase from us regularly? Are they also considered to be biased? What about when we give free samples away asking for feedback? We have done this several times on the forum and we would like to continue to offer free product to customers on the forum in exchange for feedback. Do these forum members now lose their credibility and should not be able to comment on the forum just because they have tested a new product?


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## Grmblz (21/5/20)

Oh look, it's Cheech and Chong, great double act with useful contributions yet again.



CaptainMachSnot said:


> What sort of heatsinks are you using? Are they special purpose, or large ones made for electronics? Be interested to see what you did, because I think the cooling of taps will make more of a difference than the type of tap will. Haven't put in a fan yet, but shall be soon



Got them off ebay, 50mm width with a 20mm hole, 25mm deep, used an old shank as a tap to put a thread in them then arctic silver thermal paste, used the 150mm shanks and screwed two of these onto each one, the intertaps are quite cold to the touch, and get condensation on them (weather dependant) first single pours aren't much different to multiple pours.


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## Nullnvoid (21/5/20)

KegLand-com-au said:


> I do find it a bit unfair that "*onemorecell"* is being invalidated because he has done work for us. Many people in the industry have done work for us. To be fair onemorecell had done some software development for us as he is a great software developer and he does fantastic work and not only that he made this clear by disclosing this in one of his other posts.
> 
> He is not an employee of KegLand and he speaks his own mind.
> 
> ...



Full disclosure I was joking. I have nothing against you guys and nothing against Onemorecell. Have had many a beer for him.

I do think you have a mistaken identity and it isn't who you think it is and you actually mean someone else.

Again full disclosure, I have received samples off you and will try to in the future to help testing. They have been good and helped me out. 

One more full disclosure. I really enjoy listening to what @Grmblz says, as I actually believe he is quite balanced in what he says and for the most part I agree with him about 95% of the time


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## wide eyed and legless (21/5/20)

And here was me thinking onemorecell was laxation rebadged.


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## onemorecell (21/5/20)

KegLand-com-au said:


> I do find it a bit unfair that "*onemorecell"* is being invalidated because he has done work for us. Many people in the industry have done work for us. To be fair onemorecell had done some software development for us as he is a great software developer and he does fantastic work and not only that he made this clear by disclosing this in one of his other posts


sorry, not me mate...


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## onemorecell (21/5/20)

Nullnvoid said:


> One more full disclosure. I really enjoy listening to what @Grmblz says, as I actually believe he is quite balanced in what he says and for the most part I agree with him about 95% of the time


yeah good point - @Grmblz, same from me. But I already agree the first time, the next few posts on the same point are just a bit superfluous


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## Kenf (21/5/20)

OMG! Thread is dead!


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## Grmblz (21/5/20)

Well bloody hell ^^ thank you for the kind words, most unexpected, and not a little embarrassing, I'm not sure about "quite balanced" but I'll take it.
After all the prodding (not just mine) Kee posts 15 comments, clearing up a lot of questions, the squeaky hinge gets the oil.


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## Grmblz (21/5/20)

Kenf said:


> OMG! Thread is dead!


Spoke too soon mate ROFL


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## Kenf (21/5/20)

Oh well - I guess I will get my answers elsewhere


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## Grmblz (21/5/20)

Kenf said:


> Oh well - I guess I will get my answers elsewhere


What was the question?


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## Kenf (21/5/20)

ultra tap Intertap is there a difference?
no matter mate, like I said I will look elsewhere


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## splitice (31/5/20)

@Kemf indeed. 10 pages off topic KL vs KK.


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## CKK (31/5/20)

Kenf said:


> ultra tap Intertap is there a difference?
> no matter mate, like I said I will look elsewhere


Always happy to hear from you Ken and you know how to get in touch. Because we designed and build both I can show you the difference.


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## Nullnvoid (31/5/20)

Can't you tell everyone on here?


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## mje1980 (31/5/20)

I just bought an Intertap. I have a perlick which is lovely but I’ll give the Intertap a go. No real reason over the Ultratap, it was the first one I saw haha.


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## CKK (1/6/20)

Nullnvoid said:


> Can't you tell everyone on here?


I am trying to assist Ken. You have no interest other than to try and score some troll point or two.


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## Nullnvoid (1/6/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> I am trying to assist Ken. You have no interest other than to try and score some troll point or two.



No, you said yourself, you make both. I just want an official answer to the question. Maybe then we can close this thread.


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## onemorecell (1/6/20)

Nullnvoid said:


> No, you said yourself, you make both. I just want an official answer to the question. Maybe then we can close this thread.


please stop trolling.
CEOKegKing is very busy *telling *everyone how good he is, don't you dare ask him to *show *it.
rude of you.


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## Nullnvoid (1/6/20)

onemorecell said:


> please stop trolling.
> CEOKegKing is very busy *telling *everyone how good he is, don't you dare ask him to *show *it.
> rude of you.



Soz!


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## CKK (1/6/20)

Nullnvoid said:


> No, you said yourself, you make both. I just want an official answer to the question. Maybe then we can close this thread.


Not sure what you mean by an official answer but if you look back on this thread then you will understand that the Intertap is not a laminar flow tap and that it was very similar to the earlier Ventmatic design. The Ultra Tap was the next development on from that and it is a laminar flow tap. It is designed to produce less foam. There will that do to stop the thread and the trolls that have little better to do than nitpick? Always happy to answer genuine questions as against loaded ones which are posed to simply try and score points.


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## Meddo (1/6/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> Not sure what you mean by an official answer but if you look back on this thread then you will understand that the Intertap is not a laminar flow tap and that it was very similar to the earlier Ventmatic design. The Ultra Tap was the next development on from that and it is a laminar flow tap. It is designed to produce less foam. There will that do to stop the thread and the trolls that have little better to do than nitpick? Always happy to answer genuine questions as against loaded ones which are posed to simply try and score points.


Genuine question - why do you continue to sell the Intertap if it's an inferior product? Is it just legacy support for current owners of Intertaps? I assume any difference in manufacturing costs would be minimal as the two taps share the same basic design and components just with tweaks in the details of the designs?

Cheers


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## Nullnvoid (1/6/20)

CEO Keg King said:


> Not sure what you mean by an official answer but if you look back on this thread then you will understand that the Intertap is not a laminar flow tap and that it was very similar to the earlier Ventmatic design. The Ultra Tap was the next development on from that and it is a laminar flow tap. It is designed to produce less foam. There will that do to stop the thread and the trolls that have little better to do than nitpick? Always happy to answer genuine questions as against loaded ones which are posed to simply try and score points.


Thank you. A simple answer without slandering anyone that actually gives an answer.

I am not scoring points with/for anyone. No one really knows me from a bar of soap. Or gives a shit about me.

Thanks for replying.


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## CKK (1/6/20)

Meddo said:


> Genuine question - why do you continue to sell the Intertap if it's an inferior product? Is it just legacy support for current owners of Intertaps? I assume any difference in manufacturing costs would be minimal as the two taps share the same basic design and components just with tweaks in the details of the designs?
> 
> Cheers


Well Meddo I don't believe its an inferior product just like an ML250 Merc is not an inferior product to an ML350. Some people just want a cheaper tap and so why not provide it as we have been making them for a few years now. They don't share much with the Ultras apart from the spout interchangeability. There is actually quite a difference in their manufacturing especially with the shuttle design. We are happy to continue selling this tap for as long as there is a demand for it. Thanks for the question and I know you always just want information which I am happy to provide.


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## CKK (1/6/20)

Nullnvoid said:


> Thank you. A simple answer without slandering anyone that actually gives an answer.
> 
> I am not scoring points with/for anyone. No one really knows me from a bar of soap. Or gives a shit about me.
> 
> Thanks for replying.


Well there was this from you earlier in the thread "Sounds good, but I would love a biased review. Imagine both Kegland and Keg-King, just absolutely going to town on the competitors taps. It would be carnage. "

If I have unintentionally wronged you then I unreservedly apologise. As I said always happy to answer questions but if I dare to elaborate I get members who say I am telling people how good I am etc. Frankly I don't regard myself as so good with all this stuff at all. However I do have a really great team right here in Springvale Victoria which is very good at getting the answers. We don't know it all but if we do it then we try to do it right to the best of our abilities as a team. Look forward to being of service to you all.


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