# Another Brew Shop Closed



## Truman42 (15/4/12)

The wife went to get her hair done in Frankston on Saturday so I went along to get a quick trim. As womans hair always takes longer than mens, with colouring, straightening, idle gossip, and all that crap, I decided to go for a walk to Brew and grow around the corner to get a bottling wand and some crown seals.

But when I got there the place had shut down.

It seems to be the trend with home brew shops, and places like Coles and Woolies not stocking HB supplies anymore.

So is it that HB is a dying hobby, or is it more so that with online suppliers and the larger stores like G&G and KK selling more variety that these smaller shops just cant compete?
I would have thought that with BIAB and easier AG brewing, the hobby would be more popular now than it was say 15 years ago.

I can see a shop in Hallam being next as there is never anyone in that shop when I go and I only go there to get emergency supplies as its just around the corner from work. I would love to support the smaller guys but shops like Brew and Grow really dont stock enough variety and seem to only cater for extract and K&K brewers. (That is unless your hobby is to grow and smoke rather than brew and drink.)


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## Rowy (15/4/12)

Truman said:


> The wife went to get her hair done in Frankston on Saturday so I went along to get a quick trim. As womans hair always takes longer than mens, with colouring, straightening, idle gossip, and all that crap, I decided to go for a walk to Brew and grow around the corner to get a bottling wand and some crown seals.
> 
> But when I got there the place had shut down.
> 
> ...



IMHO I think that most of those shops cater to K&K brewers and AG is taking over to a degree so the places that attract those sort of customers get the market.

When I started doing K&K's the bloke that looked after me at Cleveland was a good bloke but couldn't compete on the AG front so I left. Still a good bloke but I am doing differnent things. (Hope this sounds alright I may have imbibed today)


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## Wolfy (15/4/12)

Truman said:


> So is it that HB is a dying hobby, or is it more so that with online suppliers and the larger stores like G&G and KK selling more variety that these smaller shops just cant compete?
> I would have thought that with BIAB and easier AG brewing, the hobby would be more popular now than it was say 15 years ago.
> 
> I can see a shop in Hallam being next as there is never anyone in that shop when I go and I only go there to get emergency supplies as its just around the corner from work. I would love to support the smaller guys but shops like Brew and Grow really dont stock enough variety and seem to only cater for extract and K&K brewers. (That is unless your hobby is to grow and smoke rather than brew and drink.)


With the increasing interest in 'Craft Brewing' I doubt that the hobby is dying.

However, most local 'Brew Shops' appear to be targeted toward kit-brewers and other-alcohol-products (such as extracts and the like), given the name of the shop you mentioned 'Brew and Grow" one assumes that a large part of their business was focused to growing some weeds.

My LHBS (the other one you mention) does not stock anything that I can imagine I want to buy, or offer any advice that I imagine I'd want to hear - so they do not get my business and if they go away it will be no loss to me. I drive past them to Keg King, or to Grain and Grape, both of which stock many products I am interested in and both can usually provide adequate advice. Other than that I buy off the net or in bulk, both of which make my 'LHBS' totally irrelevant to me.


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## Rowy (15/4/12)

Wolfy said:


> With the increasing interest in 'Craft Brewing' I doubt that the hobby is dying.
> 
> However, most local 'Brew Shops' appear to be targeted toward kit-brewers and other-alcohol-products (such as extracts and the like), given the name of the shop you mentioned 'Brew and Grow" one assumes that a large part of their business was focused to growing some weeds.
> 
> My LHBS (the other one you mention) does not stock anything that I can imagine I want to buy, or offer any advice that I imagine I'd want to hear - so they do not get my business and if they go away it will be no loss to me. I drive past them to Keg King, or to Grain and Grape, both of which stock many products I am interested in and both can usually provide adequate advice. Other than that I buy off the net or in bulk, both of which make my 'LHBS' totally irrelevant to me.




Like wolfy said


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## Bribie G (15/4/12)

My own take on this is from the point of view of an elderly gent (as you perceive me  ) who actually ran a LHBS in the late 1970s at the time that HB was getting a go-on with the first kits on the market. 

Initially there was a big interest in kits and extract brewing, with the brewers realising they wouldn't be able to recreate XXXX or Carlton, but make a tasty brew they could get pissed on. This market stayed fairly stable until a few years ago with quite a few long lived LHBS, when the supermarkets got into it and Coopers in particular started some national advertising. 






Combined with the rising interest in craft beers such as JS and LC many new home brewers got into the market and everything boomed, including the LHBS. At the same time a hard core of AG brewers arose, sort of "in parallel" to the kit brewers and became what we see today on our forum and the clubs and events around Australia. 

The supply of AG ingredients became fairly centralised into some strong regional/national suppliers such as MHB, CraftBrewer, Grain and Grape etc et. The LHBS couldn't really become strong in this market because in each of their catchment areas there were either only a few, or no, AG brewers.

To supplement their income most LHBS turned to distilling requirements, as the government has de-facto legalised this craft (or doesn't enforce the laws) and this enabled LHBS to enter an new period of stability.
However for new brewers entering the store, the LHBS couldn't really advise on aspects such as AG because they were unable to offer the products. 

This is a double edged sword, because they need to retain their brewers as kit or extract - but supermarkets are very convenient and "bleed" a lot of their sales. A lot of supermarkets have gone out of HB but many still stock. So a lot of new brewers go to them, but no advice available. 

My own opinion is that Coopers et al should look carefully at their future and maybe decide NOT to supply the supermarkets and reinstate the LHBS as the point of sale and advice, to avoid a collapse in kit and extract brewing. 



Discuss B)

Edit: 

A silly quirk is that the Coopers Distribution "contractor" refuses to supply the likes of Craftbrewer (who is in a perfect position to offer advice to home brewers) because there is a LHBS allocated to his area, but Coopers will quite happily have their stock in IGA or Woolies in the same area where the staff are unable to offer advice. 

Further discuss


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## Phoney (15/4/12)

Online sales are definitely hurting the bricks and mortar shops. The only reason I ever have to go to a LHBS nowadays is to swap a c02 tank over, then I'm like a kid in a toystore and usually walk out with something else but this is once every 6 months instead of once every few weeks. And when you're shopping online it doesnt matter if the store is located 10km away or 1000km away, price and variety always wins out which means the little guys always lose.


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## Dazza88 (15/4/12)

Isn't there a general trend of retailing doing it tough at the moment?


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## pk.sax (15/4/12)

I gotta say Bribie nailed it.

The biggest brew shop here is hellbent on staying out of AG and they have other concerns like cheese making under the same roof, floor area wise, the shop is bigger than g&g.

You might've noticed but on this forum itself there is a disproportionate number of people that are first gen Aussies.
Point being, most have plenty of other interests, those tht venture into HB never go past k&k. As easy as it sounds, AG brewing does require some brainwork & time, the number of it people and tradesmen on this forum dwarfs others, markets respond to demographics.

As Melbourne grows and the population pushes outwards, they are displacing the so called 'lazy crowd'. The k&k clientele is melting away.

There are definite ways to relate these trends to what happens on the ground.


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## peaky (15/4/12)

I buy all of my grain in bulk buys, except for the odd kilo of specialty grain (which I purchase online anyway). Almost all of my hops come from the US. ALL of my yeast comes from swapping slants with other slanters around the country. I own very little equipment, some of it I make at work myself, almost nothing gets purchased from LHBS. All of my brewing questions are answered by searching online.

It's (kinda) funny how I normally try to support local small business when I shop for everything except brewing stuff.

Sorry to the bricks and mortar LHBS owners....


I also do a lot of spearfishing and ALL of my dive equipment is purchased locally from the shop (never online). As far as diving goes I get better answers to my questions in-shop rather than online.


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## dr K (15/4/12)

LHBS get a lot of support and so they should, but the simple fact is that are those that just push product (usually Kits) out the door and those that really are part of the scene. Grain and Grape in Melbourne and Mark's Home Brew in Newcastle are two prominent examples of Brew Shops that are full of enthusiastic and knowlegdeable people (and thats just the customers !), of course there are many others.

G and G , MHB and others have supported this hobby for a long time, and their clients have reciprocated.
The hobby continues to grow.

K


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## Batz (15/4/12)

There's nothing like walking into a HBS, even if it's mainly K&K I still go in and say hi to the owner and have a look around.

batz


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## kelbygreen (15/4/12)

not only that but the closest store near me is usless and give ill advise so the chances of there costumers coming back or even brewing again is minimal. They said I could ferment beer in my shed during a heat wave of 38-42c for a week and a half straight without any aids to cool it down. There words where it will just ferment faster! Now I am not sure if any of you have fermented a beer at a stable temp of 35c but I can tell you that you will be going to the shop to buy some vb as it will taste like the best beer on earth at that point!

Needless to say that I never went back in there and found this forum then was buying kits from the supermarket, As one it was more convenient as I was already there and 2 you have to park like 500m away from the shop as it was in a main street and half the day you cant park there and the other half there is no way you can find a park. also there advice was shocking so you wasted your time asking them. The guy packing shelfs at coles prob had more of a idea how to brew then them and he prob only touched the cans to put on the shelf.


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## Smokomark (15/4/12)

Rowy said:


> IMHO I think that most of those shops cater to K&K brewers and AG is taking over to a degree so the places that attract those sort of customers get the market.
> 
> When I started doing K&K's the bloke that looked after me at Cleveland was a good bloke but couldn't compete on the AG front so I left. Still a good bloke but I am doing differnent things. (Hope this sounds alright I may have imbibed today)





You're right, Jeff at Cleveland is a great bloke, Ross at Capalaba is also. They are servicing different markets really, but i am happy to spend my money with either.
Without guys like Jeff a lot of people won't get into brewing at the entry level. 
Without guys like Ross a lot of us wouldn't realise our passion for brewing.


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## the_new_darren (15/4/12)

Bribie G said:


> My own take on this is from the point of view of an elderly gent (as you perceive me  ) who actually ran a LHBS in the late 1970s at the time that HB was getting a go-on with the first kits on the market.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I reckon Coopers should re-establish "shop front" sales of malt to homebrewers like they used to do.

Coopers crystal was the ducks nuts. as was the wheat and pale, but alas, the olden days are gone.

tnd


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## Online Brewing Supplies (15/4/12)

Batz said:


> There's nothing like walking into a HBS, even if it's mainly K&K I still go in and say hi to the owner and have a look around.
> 
> batz


   :lol: 
Nev


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## wessmith (15/4/12)

the_new_darren said:


> I reckon Coopers should re-establish "shop front" sales of malt to homebrewers like they used to do.
> 
> Coopers crystal was the ducks nuts. as was the wheat and pale, but alas, the olden days are gone.
> 
> tnd



Who do you think made their crystal malt Darren?

Wes


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## Feldon (15/4/12)

Seems the demise of bricks & mortar homebrew shops is not restricted to Australia.

A newbie posted this today on UK forum Jim's Beer Kit :

_Hi all, I am looking for a home brewing shop based in London, ideally close to SW4 (no car). I just need to get some dry malt (ideally coopers light) for a kit brew, so a small place that does some brewing equipment would be ideal...​_
and a reply :

_... Your nearest supplier is roughly about 7 miles away from your postcode. Its a frequent problem that people these days dont have a "local" home brew shop - they can be few and far between (my nearest shop is 16 miles away and rarely ever open, meaning I use another one thats nearly 30 miles away ! ) The internet presents the best combination of price and convenience as you can shop from your armchair and its all delivered by postie​_
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtop...f=6&t=50055


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## bum (15/4/12)

Truman said:


> I would have thought that with BIAB and easier AG brewing, the hobby would be more popular now than it was say 15 years ago.


Perhaps - not sure how that helps a LHBS that doesn't sell grain outside of a few bags of pre-packaged spec. This is the same LHBS where the register attendant once told me that "it's not worth all the trouble" of using grain. 

However, I did have to wait about 15 minutes once while he designed a hydro system for some kid who can't have been 18.



Truman said:


> I would love to support the smaller guys but shops like Brew and Grow really dont stock enough variety and seem to only cater for extract and K&K brewers.


They supported extract brewers? Pig's arse! I've told this story before but early on in my brewing career, I once went in there with an idea to brew an all-extract wheat beer (turns out that wasn't the best idea in the world but I digress). I explained to the guy what I needed (tins of wheat goop). He says "where are you going to get your bitterness from?" and I say "I'll boil it up with some hops...?".

I swear I am not making this up - he says "Can you even do that?!"

Good riddance.


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## Batz (15/4/12)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> :lol:
> Nev




I did that at your place Nev.


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## kelbygreen (15/4/12)

places like nevs that sell just kits and a few brown pumps, I cant see how they keep running


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## bignath (15/4/12)

dr K said:


> LHBS get a lot of support and so they should, but the simple fact is that are those that just push product (usually Kits) out the door and those that really are part of the scene. Grain and Grape in Melbourne and Mark's Home Brew in Newcastle are two prominent examples of Brew Shops that are full of enthusiastic and knowlegdeable people (and thats just the customers !), of course there are many others.
> 
> G and G , MHB and others have supported this hobby for a long time, and their clients have reciprocated.
> The hobby continues to grow.
> ...



Absolutely.

Particularly the last part about customer reciprocating.

I'll gladly spend a little more money in a shop for equal ingredients and equipment if i know the dude that is running the store knows or atleast has a passion for his product.

Nothing shits me more when you go into a store for advise only to discover you know infinitely more than the owner. 
I'm looking at you Dick Head Smith Electronics.

Went into my local the other day as i could have sworn he sold some brewing salts. Didn't know about any of the major salts at all. Black and Yellow everywhere. Total knob.

EDIT: Maybe it's just me, but in this world of internet everywhere, i think there's no excuse for not being able to do some research and at least discover new products or brewing methods that may help your business.
I used to work in the music equipment retail industry, and when customers weren't in the shop, the manager and i would constantly be on the net researching and looking at all kinds of new gear to further our knowledge.


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## DJR (15/4/12)

When I moved up here to the blue mountains, my LHBS was a 10 min drive away, Pat had a shop at Faulconbridge. Was yet another great reason to move here... He closed that shop about 2 and a bit years ago now, so now I go down to St Mary's, or Pat just lives up the road from me in Lawson so drops off stuff when i need it (thanks alot Pat if you are reading this  )

Bribie is right, if we go to an average LHBS shop, ask to make an OK beer and get shown "use this kit X with this yeast Y" and it's just a kit with BE2/spray malt, a bit of hops and some yeast. What is to stop someone going over the road to Kmart/BigW and getting the same kit, spray malt and BE2 for a few bucks cheaper, and then just buying some hops, yeast or whatever they can't get at Kmart from the brew shop, or feeling like that's being a bit scummy to order such a small amount and dud the LHBS on the full sale, so order it online. 

The brew shop who wants to actually survive then responds by generalising, e.g. big chain LHBS here are now doing beer, wine, spirits, cheese, jerky, sausages, coffee and more. If shops go down that path there may not be a huge amount of knowledge across all the product lines they offer, but it is a way to stay in business and provide many alternative revenue-generating products. Or they respond by specialising - going to higher levels of brewing e.g. AG which is where people like Ross and Pat excel, having more equipment e.g. stainless bling, alternative products, fresher hops than everyone else, lots of yeast etc

Not all people by a long shot that are into AG brewing or brewing in general are on this forum at all, but there is probably a fair few people who just look at the info and recipes as guests and never register. Even at that level the amount of information on here would be far more than an LHBS owner that has only ever brewed kits and that creates a massive problem for consumers of these outlets. If you are looking to an LHBS for advice and they are either ignorant, arrogant or worse still just plain wrong then what is the point... get your advice and ingredients online or some other place that cares.

Only issue with the amount of free information is that it does leave open the supermarket model to come in, set up a massive online brew shop and start dudding other brew shops, wholesalers or online retailers without really offering advice and just offering products. If you don't need to offer advice ala BigW or Kmart then what is to stop you setting up a shop that basically sells everything ingredients wise to homebrewers. But thankfully the thing that stops the big boys playing that game is the market is still quite small and the profit margins aren't really there to run a business beyond a pretty small operation. As opposed to the liquor industry as a whole, which is massively bigger


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## the_new_darren (15/4/12)

wessmith said:


> Who do you think made their crystal malt Darren?
> 
> Wes



I dunno Wes,

I know I and my kids could eat it by the handful.

Was sweet as.

Who made it? Is it still available?

It must have been ~500EBC. Never saw anything available at that "colour" or sweetness since

tnd


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (15/4/12)

Gotta comment on this, but I will state, at the outset, that I'm a happy Craftbrewer customer. So all the retards, h8ers, and people wanting to take a pot shot can get their respective panties in a twist and go and look up a Victoria Secret catalogue and indulge their sick crossdressing fantasies there.

Okey dokey, that caveat aside.

My LHBS (not CB) has a "spiritual" friend there - indulges a great deal, as does his missus. I go there when the excrement hits the rotating cooling device and my yeast doesn't take (like that dodgy batch of notto a week ago).

I go in there, dude looks stoned.

I get a pack of US-05 (brewcraft version, thank you Dr. Google). He asks me if I'm brewing Little Creatures and which kit I'm using. Tell him I AG, he stares blankly at me. Looks over to his weevil infested overpriced uncracked grain bags and stares at me like I've spoken Klingon.

Other time, I'm in there with my mate when we're about to brew cider, ask the lady about the wine yeasts and their respective temp ranges (as I'm not going to temp control his cider over my beer), and she says "oh, love, I don't make wine y'know". Sniff.

I go into CB and ask "do you reckon in x beer style that x grain will work better than y grain?" (just to make sure my recipe is spot on). Get a sensible answer.

Repeat both negative and positive experiences 10x over.

Price has a fair amount to do with it too.

Simple other fact - the internet has given knowledge to anyone who can type something into google. These "old style" shops need to get with the program and realise that most people have the ability to choose. Even our K&K friends have chosen that method, rather than assuming that it's the only way to go about making beer. We can google on our phones. Had a mate never brewed before, bottling with me today (his beer), told him "punch abv calc into google" numbers went in, abv came out.

We are an information world. Provide the product and sound like you give a crap, and most will respect you for that.

Goomba


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## kelbygreen (15/4/12)

you have it about spot on DJR and I see where you come from with big retailers. If they did open something up it would be hard for the little guys to compete. Although there wouldnt be much use in them unless they opened a online store or just set up in a major city or something as I doubt the profit would be there to open a store attached to say every woolies or something. They obviously found out that even selling kits in the store is not viable as if it was they would still have them on the shelfs. I dont think the retailers have to worry about the big guys yet. They make more money per item off the pre made grog then they would on the ingredients to make grog. 

Its a hard game you even ask the retailers that are on this forum. They dont make as much as people think they do, They are competitive and they offer great service and advice. They like to hire brewers to work in the shops and they like to look after the loyal customers. I use Mark and I cant fault his service and advice, I always spend way longer then I need in the shop with him giving me info or telling me about products and how to use them or new things he is trailing to make brewing better, He has alot of knowledge and he seems to be in it to help brewers then make huge profits. 

I am sure all the good home brew shops are the same and ordering online is not the same. Get into one of these shops its great I go in to pick up grain thats sitting there waiting but spend almost a hour in the shop talking about brewing. I mean if Mark had no passion for the game he wouldnt waste his time helping explain things to you.


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## komodo (15/4/12)

Big Nath said:


> Absolutely.
> 
> Particularly the last part about customer reciprocating.
> 
> ...



^ This! 

One of my other hobbies is car audio. Over recent years I've seen numerous stores close down including chain stores. This has been mostly because a.) online pricing. b.) guys who weren't concerned about a few cents here and there but more interested in getting the product they wanted and EXPERT advice have been able to find better advice online for free with no pressure to spend. Then when the time does come to spend they usually end up at supporting vendors stores (or mail ordering) because they know they can trust these vendors. 

Two things happen. A.) the expert vendor that wasnt online often ends up shutting the doors because they arent as well known as those that actively advertise and support and participate in online forum discussions. B.) the "box movers" end up just doing more of that. Moving boxes - mostly of crap because now they have to be cheap because they have no decent advice and if they arent cheap thire customers will buy from ebay. 

Its not just HBS though either. Hardly Normal is feeling the effects of the evolving market place. These "old school" guys dont like it and they are fighting tooth and claw for things not to change. Mean while the "Kogans" are taking the rug from under them on price (and seemingly customer service) whilst the specialist stores need to opperate swiftly because the information online advising customers to better products that they may other wise not have known of - these stores need to swoop in make the sale without baffelling with bullshit. The hard part about this is that the internet is a place where people can effectively publish anything, so that "forum advice" isnt always right. Forums suffer from "flavour of the month" syndrome where certain products get the lime light where other products would be better due to demographic bias etc.

As for the home brew shop in frankston - **** it. It was shit house anyway. In all honesty I think home brew stores generally need a bit of a shake up with POS marketting. Perhaps some expert planogram planning needs to take place. Most home brew stores are rabbit warrens. A new brewer wants to grab a product, read what it is, what its used for, how to use it etc. I'd bet we've all had times (particularly early in our brewing career) where we looked at something and went "wonder what that does". If clear marketing had been used we may have bought it. Professional looking labels - not something that looks like it was printed on a dot matrix printer and stuck on a dusty package in dads back shed 10+ years ago and its sat on the shelf ever since.

Have a small 1/2 sized batch 3V brew rig on display. It doesnt take up a huge amount of room but it could spark interest. Maybe with a story board on what it is what 3V brewing is, pictures and alternatives (BIAB or that auto whats its name thingy)
Like wise how many brew stores do you look in where they have fermenters on shelves all around the shop, but no where do they display "package" pricing. Or worse how many home brew shops display no pricing at all.

Its not just HBS though - Try your local lawn mower shop. They sell lawn mowers, brush cutters, ride-ons, line, pull starts, blades etc. Yet most people go buy their new lawn mower from the big green shed because the local lawn mower shop is poorly lit, poorly laid out, uninviting to many people - especially women, prices are either not displayed and the store keeper rattles some price off the top of his head when you ask (which always makes you feel as if he gives different customers different prices depending on if he thinks they are a wood duck or not) or they are scribbled on with a sharpie with a barcode crossed off which makes you think they bought it at the big green shed and only sell it at an inflatted price because people sometimes asked and they didnt want to send more people to the big green shed. Whats with this current craze of "ask for a price!" or "ask for a deal" Seriously I'm window shopping I dont want to waste your time and I dont want to be hassled I just wanted a ball park figure on that 22HP Honda powered out front 26" deck ride on so I could budget a rough figure. But no I have to ask for a price get given a speil asked if I'm buying today or not heres the price but I wont write it down. Seriously WTF.


Get with the times. Advertise. Be welcoming. Have competitive pricing (that doesnt mean you have to have the lowest price it just means your pricing has to be competitive). Dont bitch about the box movers cutting your lunch. Lay things out well. Good lighting. Ambient music - nothing more awkward that browsing the shelves of a small store with no back ground music whilst the store keeper sits behind the counter peering over at you coughing occasionally and making your uncomfortable being in the store as if you're wasting their time. Good advice. Freindly - but without being "clicky" with regs, this makes many newbies uncomfortable asking beginner questions.


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## Bribie G (15/4/12)

Probably way off topic

Background: I spent 15 years as a rep for Allens Sweets then Rothmans, with various territories, calling on small businesses and smaller IGA type supermarkets, snack bars, delis etc. It may just have been a result of the recession we had to have, but it struck me that most people over the age of 40 running a small business were there because they had bought themselves a job with their reduncancy payout from whatever they had been doing, and were only interested in working the business to make a living, but not necessarily to give great service or expand the show.

Also, they were taking over an existing small business and, as sole operators, vulnerable to being crowded out by more energetic and cashed up franchised chains. For example the middle aged couple flipping limp burgers and serving instant coffee would suddenly find a Maccas or a Hungry Jacks opening up the road and within a few months they were gone.

However, an energetic person would open a Burger Licious gourmet wood fired pizza and burger joint in the shadow of the Maccas and do very well ( not being ageist, the woodfired guys could be old)

It's all churn, churn, churn. Apart from the brew by you phenomenon I don't see any churn happening in the home brew business, just same-old stores (equivalent of flipping limp burgers and serving instant coffee) hanging on and declining and the more energetic players like MHB and CB taking over more and more of the market. May you live to see interesting times B)


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## bum (15/4/12)

Bribie G said:


> Probably way off topic


Maybe. Hard to say.

All depends on how tightly tethered to reality one may be... :blink:


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## DJR (15/4/12)

A bit OT here, but if i go into a shop again and I ask someone what something does or if it is a good product and they read the blurb on the back of the packet, I am going to lose my shit with them.  Maybe i visit the wrong shops!


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## DJR (15/4/12)

Bribie G said:


> Also, they were taking over an existing small business and, as sole operators, vulnerable to being crowded out by more energetic and cashed up franchised chains. For example the middle aged couple flipping limp burgers and serving instant coffee would suddenly find a Maccas or a Hungry Jacks opening up the road and within a few months they were gone.
> 
> However, an energetic person would open a Burger Licious gourmet wood fired pizza and burger joint in the shadow of the Maccas and do very well ( not being ageist, the woodfired guys could be old)



Quality, Consistency and Price/Value are key reasons we go back to visit a place, the first example of a limp burger and bad coffee shop had issues with Quality and Consitency but the price was OK - say what you like about Maccas and Hungry Jacks but they get Consistency and Price right in the eyes of most people, Quality is OK for what it is

Burgerlicious however would be good quality and consistent, price wise not that much more, maybe $10 or 12 for a lunch instead of $7 or 8 at a takeaway or large chain

Back to the issue at hand, bad LHBSs have no quality or consistency and bad prices so question is why are they still around


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## Fish13 (15/4/12)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> :lol:
> Nev



you mean reach around nev. gee nev. no wonder jyo is the pitcher

I support my local hb stores when nev isn't giving me good deals 

My lhbs has just got right into it. She worked with the previous owner for a little while and then bought (iirc) and is right into it and has k & K and partial and carries grain too at my pushing and a few other local guys pushing. she also does the extract stuff too. she is also a b.o.p. 

the other HBS is a bitsa shop. has essenances, bar gear and brew gear, some keg stuff too. will also get bulk bags of grain in too. hey they got me my 1056 too. was good. 

i spread the love.


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## Wimmig (15/4/12)

I don't think it's HB specific, but more reflective of the retail market. There are some products which sell more in such economic enviroments (such as coopers HB line). Though, for the most part the offering from the shops i have been to, on the whole, has been negative. And that's as a consumer, not someone who loves homebrew. 

I've been to some stores which have interesting displays, etc, though they are pretty static. I think a little more of retail 101 needs to be applied to get the people in. The last time i enjoyed a HB shop, it seemed more like a family thing than anything else. They have a free bbq every sat out the front, informational displays inside. Always busy. They swap the malls butcher for beer, get the gas from m/10 (again for beer) to keep the costs down. The shop is full of people getting cans, discovering what grain packs do, to buying yeast which is not from under the lid and learning about what mashing is. 

It's one thing to LIKE a product, or service, it's another thing to have a PASSION about it.


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## Nick JD (15/4/12)

I'm a big fan of capitalism. The market will have her way.


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## bum (15/4/12)

Wimmig said:


> I don't think it's HB specific, but more reflective of the retail market.


While I agree that your broader point may be valid, I've been in the shop and it is most certainly retailer specific in the instance of the OP. Truly a shabby establishment.

They always had a fermenter going in their north facing shop window and their advice was on song with that.


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## Truman42 (16/4/12)

bum said:


> They always had a fermenter going in their north facing shop window and their advice was on song with that.



Yes I noticed that, it was always sitting on a heat pad. The best advice they ever gave me was when I first started out, that was not to buy the Coopers lollies as sugar is cheaper. He even gave me a free measuring jug.


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## Andyd (16/4/12)

the_new_darren said:


> I dunno Wes,
> 
> I know I and my kids could eat it by the handful.
> 
> ...



G'day Darren,

I'm pretty sure Coopers was/is supplied by Joe White, who did at one stage sell direct to the public but then stopped in favour of distributing through LHBS.

What I can't say is whether they're still producing the malt you're referring to.

Cheers!

Andy


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## SJW (16/4/12)

Truman said:


> The wife went to get her hair done in Frankston on Saturday so I went along to get a quick trim. As womans hair always takes longer than mens, with colouring, straightening, idle gossip, and all that crap, I decided to go for a walk to Brew and grow around the corner to get a bottling wand and some crown seals.
> 
> But when I got there the place had shut down.
> 
> ...



Very interesting thread. I have no idea what it takes to run a retail store apart from talking to retalers about their shops.
As far as HB shops are concerned we are very lucky here in Newcastle when it comes to a great HB store.
I think money will always talk at the end of the day. The funny thing is the only shop (other than Coles, Woolies ect...) that I walk into a make purchases from is my LHBS. Everything thing else is bought on-line. Books, vitamins, motorcycle parts, motor oil, clothes, music, cycling clothes and parts, but I bought a Sthil petrol blower from a Sthil specialist and a pair of Richter loudspeaks from a Hi-Fi shop.
My point is there are some things that suit online sales and some things u just need to go into a shop and speak to a proffesional and try before u buy. Now HB works fine as an on-line shop but it is still nice to be able to walk in a chat, taste and see the products. I guess while not knowing why this bloke went out of buisiness maybe he should of moved with the times and got on-line and started selling there too? 
Gone ar the days where some ol baby boomer can survive in a little HB shop selling a few cans, crown seals and a bench capper. All retailers need to move with the times and continue to raise the bar with QUALITY, SERVICE, PRICE and INOVATION, otherwise they will not survive in this open, worldwide maket we now have called the INTERNET.

Steve


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## wynnum1 (16/4/12)

What would the cost of rent be a week then cost of labor .


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## komodo (16/4/12)

plus insurances plus stock plus interest on the loan you've taken plus tax every quater plus the cost of a book keeper & accountant plus services plus shop fitting plus advertising plus permits (if applicable) plus plus plus.

Nothing cleap about getting into retail


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## Parks (16/4/12)

Komodo said:


> ... plus tax every quater ...


You only pay tax if you make money


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## leahy268 (16/4/12)

I have to say I also have been turned away by LHBS's.
Currently the only one in this town AFAIK.
Been in a few times when I've had to and I mean when I've had to.
Found that if you ask for anything that doesn't come in a kit the proprietor thinks your strange.
Or tells you that you just can't do it. That and what they do stock is way overpriced.
If the Frankston one was anything like that they deserve to not have a business.
But I'll bet they're the first to say that the internet is hurting their business.
I now order from CB on the internet but because of the service and range.
I have been in a couple of times and would probably be in a lot more often if it was closer.

Mostly the service. 
I doubt I would have started buying from the internet at all or started AG if it hadn't been for being turned away by my LHBS.
So I guess I should thank him oneday..


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## SJW (16/4/12)

I would of never started brewing if it was not for my LHBS. To be able to walk in and not know what end of a subbie was up and walk out with the confidence to give HBing a go..............well you cant get that on the internet. Dont care what you say, human nature needs that face to face, personal contact prior to parting with the cash.
Sure, once u know what u are doing and are making award winning beers, internet orders are fine, but support your local "IF" they offer good service, produce and price. 
Home brew is one thing the Chinese have not managed to copy and export to us at 1/4 the price. Well we all know how the Chinese hop bulk buy went...


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## Truman42 (16/4/12)

SJW said:


> Home brew is one thing the Chinese have not managed to copy and export to us at 1/4 the price.


Well not yet anyway... Chinese Braumiester anyone??


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## emnpaul (16/4/12)

Truman said:


> Well not yet anyway... Chinese Braumiester anyone??




They already exist. Google Beer Machine 2000.


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## Wolfy (16/4/12)

Truman said:


> Well not yet anyway... Chinese Braumiester anyone??


Looked at one at KegKing just an hour ago. 


SJW said:


> I would of never started brewing if it was not for my LHBS. To be able to walk in and not know what end of a subbie was up and walk out with the confidence to give HBing a go..............well you cant get that on the internet. Dont care what you say, human nature needs that face to face, personal contact prior to parting with the cash.
> Sure, once u know what u are doing and are making award winning beers, internet orders are fine, but support your local "IF" they offer good service, produce and price.
> Home brew is one thing the Chinese have not managed to copy and export to us at 1/4 the price. Well we all know how the Chinese hop bulk buy went...


I guess I'm different to you, I credit all my brewing confidence and starting-knowledge to these forums, after that speaking to the guy at my LHBS (for some yeast) was a step backward and is one reason why I've only ever visited his shop once since.


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## CONNOR BREWARE (17/4/12)

Parks said:


> You only pay tax if you make money


What country are you living in? You pay tax here by spending or drawing on investments, or in some cases investing. Infact in some cases you can make money and not pay taxes.


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## seravitae (17/4/12)

I think 'retail home brewing' (crappy kits and crappy advice) is dying. Maybe this is a good thing, I don't know. Is it better to have a popular hobby with many people not being fully into or appreciating the hobby, or is it better to have a more select attendance but a high amount of committed members? A lot of generalisations but interesting to think about.

I often wondered about the statistics of how many wander-ins went from kits to AG or stayed with the game for a long time. I don't think many commoners in kits would progress, and the rest would probably rather do other things and just buy beer instead?


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## NickB (17/4/12)

Nick JD said:


> I'm a big fan of capitalism. The market will have her way.




Ha! Would NEVER have picked you as having a 'Liberal' Heart....




h34r:


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## Spork (17/4/12)

I buy yeast from my LHBS, because I'm too slack to make slants etc.
Other than that... They don't stock grain, or hops, and they don't know jack sh#t about AG brewing.
They do sell stuff for, and seem to know a bit about distilling.
They also stock cheesemaking equipment.

My "other" LHBS is a garden center.
They have HB gear (kits) between the hydroponic aisle and the distillation area.
I got a bit excited first time I was there and saw yeast in the fridge! - But it was all wine yeast...

My closest LHBS that actually sells grain and hops is 220 km's away. Make that HBS, not LHBS...

Than god (and the internet) for CB and G&G, and obviously this forum.
I get %100 of my HB advice from here, and also pretty much all of my grains and hops (Thanks Itmechanic / Tas BB)

I would not give a shit if (when) my LHBS closes. Just means I will have to keep a stock of yeast (bought or cultured) instead of getting it the day after brew day.


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## Parks (17/4/12)

Duke of Paddy said:


> What country are you living in? You pay tax here by spending or drawing on investments, or in some cases investing. Infact in some cases you can make money and not pay taxes.


It was a pretty simple statement which you obviously read too much into.

"pay tax every quarter" implies GST / income tax.

You don't pay GST unless you sell more GSTable dollars than you buy.
You don't pay income tax unless your income is greater than your expenses.

ie, if your LHBS isn't making money they aren't paying taxes.


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## yum beer (17/4/12)

Parks said:


> You only pay tax if you make money



you pay tax on what you sell...Get Stuffed Tax...

nothing to do with if you make money or not, of course if you make money the tax man sticks his hand out again...


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## Parks (17/4/12)

yum beer said:


> you pay tax on what you sell...Get Stuffed Tax...
> 
> nothing to do with if you make money or not, of course if you make money the tax man sticks his hand out again...


and you claim GST on stuff you buy. If you buy more than you sell the tax man gives you money.


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## yum beer (17/4/12)

Parks said:


> and you claim GST on stuff you buy. If you buy more than you sell the tax man gives you money.



and very soon after you close your business......

buying more than one sells is a very rare occurence in any retail setting, certainly not an ongoing one, its not a business model to follow.


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## Maheel (17/4/12)

sera said:


> I think 'retail home brewing' (crappy kits and crappy advice) is dying. Maybe this is a good thing, I don't know. Is it better to have a popular hobby with many people not being fully into or appreciating the hobby, or is it better to have a more select attendance but a high amount of committed members? A lot of generalisations but interesting to think about.
> 
> I often wondered about the statistics of how many wander-ins went from kits to AG or stayed with the game for a long time. I don't think many commoners in kits would progress, and the rest would probably rather do other things and just buy beer instead?



i agree 

I reckon the late Gen Y's and Gen Z's (most of them) wont take up brewing like past gens might have. 

partly because many of them will be able to afford to buy their beer as due to a smaller labour force, they will obtain / demand higher wages and have more opportunity to advance careers quickly (earn more $$$) as boomers die out of the workforce.

also the current situation of more craftbrewers getting beer into taps in retail areas will put competitive pressure on prices of good beer and make it cheaper in the long term for them.

pretty much they will be busy doing other stuff


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## Parks (17/4/12)

yum beer said:


> and very soon after you close your business......
> 
> buying more than one sells is a very rare occurence in any retail setting, certainly not an ongoing one, its not a business model to follow.


Hence why this is a thread about a store closing.

Glad you finally got my point


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## yum beer (17/4/12)

Parks said:


> Hence why this is a thread about a store closing.
> 
> Glad you finally got my point



yeah mate, it took a while, the joy of the internet, it appeared to me you were arguing a different point, oh well same page now.


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## Parks (17/4/12)

yum beer said:


> yeah mate, it took a while, the joy of the internet, it appeared to me you were arguing a different point, oh well same page now.




Is it too early for beer o'clock?


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## yum beer (17/4/12)

Parks said:


> Is it too early for beer o'clock?




you missed it by 1/2 an hour...


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (17/4/12)

Spork said:


> I buy yeast from my LHBS, because I'm too slack to make slants etc.
> Other than that... They don't stock grain, or hops, and they don't know jack sh#t about AG brewing.
> They do sell stuff for, and seem to know a bit about distilling.
> They also stock cheesemaking equipment.
> ...



Where are these shops, spork? I _may_ be moving to Tassie, likely the north in the vicinity of Launceston (yes, done research on Ravenswood and other dodgy places, I'm not _that _vague). I'd like to know where the "dude, forgot to get a spare pack of yeast" shop is, as well as a good shop for grain and the like.

Likely to continue orders from CB (and mail it), bulk hops from America, etc - but it can never hurt to know these things.

Oh, and @Maheel - I'm technically Gen Y (though only a few months over one of the boundry lines), though I would self-classify as Gen X - I brew and did so from Uni days. Noting a few memberx8y and 9z, so maybe not all is lost on the young'uns.

Goomba


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## Spork (17/4/12)

Hey LRG.
Northern Brewing Supplies if you need a packet of dried yeast NOW. It's on Elphin Rd, just past the city park.
The other is "Charlie's Garden Center" @ Legana.

Nearest grain is in Hobart, prices are reasonableish and they can send it up for (IIRC) $8/bag.
Best place for us to buy grain (and bulk hops) is ITmechanic's BB's every couple of months. (Legend!)


.


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## alfadog (17/4/12)

Spork said:


> Hey LRG.
> Northern Brewing Supplies if you need a packet of dried yeast NOW. It's on Elphin Rd, just past the city park.
> The other is "Charlie's Garden Center" @ Legana.
> 
> ...



Thanks for that Spork, I may be migrating south soon too, good to know there is a bit of activity down that way


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (17/4/12)

Thanks Spork.

Not sure if we're moving in the next 2-3 months or so, it'll depend on a lot of stuff.

But one has to make sure that can carry on brewing, regardless. I like to be prepared for these things - it is very important after all.

Might need to get me a mill of some sort - I always buy from CB, they mill it for me for free and the per kg price of my base malt is so cheap (and 25kg of bulk grain so long to use) that I've not yet participated in one here.

Cheers,

Goomba


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## Brewers Choice (17/4/12)

At the risk of incurring the ire of AHB members, I thought I would chuck in my two cents worth. LHBS come in for a fairly regular caning on this forum, particularly over stocking mashing supplies. Some of it is well warranted - those store owners that are not interested in doing more than keeping a counter warm, are bad for our industry. However, there are many more that would eagerly look for opportunities to grow their business through sale of product to AG-ers. It's far more interesting and challenging than selling bottles of essence, or a tin of Coopers to someone who gets his wife to buy the sugar from Coles!

But it is a chicken and egg problem - AGers want fresh grain and hops (as well they should), but how many of you in the thread above have said that you only visit your LHBS when you need emergency supplies! A pallet of grain costs $2000 - it's a big risk for many stores to buy in fresh grain in the hope the someday an AGer will walk in. Liquid Yeast has a shelf life of about three months - probably about the time between visits by some brewers. Fresh hops come in 5kg packages - that's a lot of 60gm bags to sell before they go stale. Cans and essences, on the other hand, can sit on the shelf for a year or more before they go off! If you don't support the store regularly and work with the owner, then they will not take the financial risks to stock the products you want.

We have five stores and can afford to carry AG supplies - bulk grain, 22 types of fresh vacuum packed hops, liquid yeasts and an incredibly cheap AG Starter Kit, but this has been grown over several years of considerable expense. Even then, although Enoggera, Wacol and Chapel Hill carry all these items, we still can not risk rolling out all those products fully to the other two stores - we would have too much that goes off and is not fresh. Do that, and sure enough there will be another post on AHB saying the LHBS does not carry much and the stock is old. 

So, if you want to have LHBS stock your product, you need to be faithful to them, educate them where necessary (store owners do not know everything and learn as much from their customers as from forums) and work with them to get what you want. Don't support them and they wither and die.


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## Parks (17/4/12)

Good post David (I assume).

It's no different to a lot of other shops who have to work out their pricing. "Do I bulk twice as much to save $$$ and risk not selling it".

I love going into the Chapel Hill store for a chat with Tony who is always keen.

I don't think there is any real answer. I am really happy to see the effort that Brewers Choice has made over the last few years to be more accommodating to "us" - shows you are listening. That is the first step


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (17/4/12)

Fair call mate.

My only argument to this, is that when the LHBS do supply AG stuff (or even hops for K&K and AG brewers), they should be doing so at prices that are at least somewhat competitive, or in quantities that we actually use.

I noted online that BC sell hops in 60g lots (and I often go through more than 60g in a brew), for around the same price as I can get a 90g packet (retail, not bulk buy that is) from my usual shop. That's approx 50% more. If my brews cost me 50% more across the board, I start thinking about giving it up.

Ironicaly my yeast costs me less (if I can get it) from the LHBS and not the retailer that I normally chose, so obviously there is some tolerance to little more on one item, if another is markedly cheaper.

I understand your chicken & egg argument, but maybe a little more competitive prices, service (even if it's the old adage of making someone feel welcome in your shop, even if you can't help them because they know more than you), and engaging with the community more (such as more community/forum interaction like CB/MHBS/Nev from Gryphon, BIAB demos like G&G and so on) might help. That way, you aren't relying on a silver bullet to suddenly do the deed.

The other bane to the industry is the metho-heads that own a shop, purely to get a tax deduction for supporting their distillation activities.

The most local LHBS to me specialises in this, and the people that (appear to) own it are rarely sober, and I daresay not distilling correctly (judging by the higher order alcohols that have snuck through the still and into their cups, and subsequently their brains).


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## bignath (17/4/12)

Brewers Choice said:


> At the risk of incurring the ire of AHB members, I thought I would chuck in my two cents worth. LHBS come in for a fairly regular caning on this forum, particularly over stocking mashing supplies. Some of it is well warranted - those store owners that are not interested in doing more than keeping a counter warm, are bad for our industry. However, there are many more that would eagerly look for opportunities to grow their business through sale of product to AG-ers. It's far more interesting and challenging than selling bottles of essence, or a tin of Coopers to someone who gets his wife to buy the sugar from Coles!
> 
> But it is a chicken and egg problem - AGers want fresh grain and hops (as well they should), but how many of you in the thread above have said that you only visit your LHBS when you need emergency supplies! A pallet of grain costs $2000 - it's a big risk for many stores to buy in fresh grain in the hope the someday an AGer will walk in. Liquid Yeast has a shelf life of about three months - probably about the time between visits by some brewers. Fresh hops come in 5kg packages - that's a lot of 60gm bags to sell before they go stale. Cans and essences, on the other hand, can sit on the shelf for a year or more before they go off! If you don't support the store regularly and work with the owner, then they will not take the financial risks to stock the products you want.
> 
> ...



Very well put. I have been one of the many detractors (spelling?) about the problems with many HBS's when these threads pop up. I also posted earlier in this one. 

It's posts like this that i think, should give us brewers (consumers of your products) something to think about.

But, i also agree wholeheartedly with this comment from LRG......



Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> My only argument to this, is that when the LHBS do supply AG stuff (or even hops for K&K and AG brewers), they should be doing so at prices that are at least somewhat competitive, or in quantities that we actually use.



My local dickwad homebrew shop, stocks his hops in 15g bags, and wants $5-6ea for them. That's fucken ridiculous.

I just put an order in to Beerbelly (no affiliation, but thanks Amanda) for several 100g packets of hops that i've never tried before, for maybe an extra $2 per 100g as my local knob is selling for 15g.

**** that.

Unless you only want to cater for the extract (canned to be specific) crowd, who the **** is gonna just go in and buy hops in 15g lots....

I live 500k's away from Beerbelly, and as i'm halfway between Adelaide and Melbourne, will assume a relatively similar distance to G&G. Haven't used G&G before admittedly but i hear good things. Have however used CB before, several times in fact. 

I think that speaks volumes about the attitudes of the "average" (or below average) LHBS when someone would much rather spend their money paying freight from 500k's to "however far Capalaba is" from me, than frequently the local guy who is less than 5ks away. (Mt Gambier is a small town).

It's a tough one, because stores like your's - Brewers Choice, are i guess, trying so hard to win over other forms of brewers, and get caught in the middle of the shit fight, whilst our local stores that couldn't give a shit, blatantly show no interest in changing.

Sincerely glad to hear from a previous poster above me (Parks), that you and youre store is heading in a very good direction to cater for all types.


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## Deebo (17/4/12)

I think another problem is most AG ingredients probably aren't all that profitable?

If I buy a sack of grain for $60 and some bulk hops, a big container of starsan and a few yeast and kettle finings the brew store probably makes a small amount and then they wont see me for months. Though I guess that is still profit they wouldn't have made had they not stocked those items.. but they would need the extra space for grain and freezer space for bulk hops etc. 

But why would they do this is they make more profit selling 'essences' that take up less room and are more profitable?


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## Wolfy (17/4/12)

Brewers Choice said:


> So, if you want to have LHBS stock your product, you need to be faithful to them, educate them where necessary (store owners do not know everything and learn as much from their customers as from forums) and work with them to get what you want. Don't support them and they wither and die.


OR conversely ...

If the LHBS wants my business they can stock the items I wish to buy, at prices compatible to other places (including online), then if they offer resonable and helpful advice I might be more interested in shopping there.
However, if they want to concentrate on distilling, plant growing and stock only tins of goo, they'd better hope that the people who buy those products continue to do so.



Deebo said:


> I think another problem is most AG ingredients probably aren't all that profitable?


It may be that - as *Brewers Choice* pointed out - not only do AG brewers want specific products but they want them fresh. Combine that with the limited number of AG brewers, it's probable that those needs can be catered for by only a very small number of shops in each major population center. If you live in other places you'd have to put up with less than fresh products, delivery costs, or travel yourself to one of the shops who has the stuff you want.


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## dago001 (17/4/12)

I support the local brew shop as much as possible. He sells mainly kits and tinned malt with some ldme. He was great when I started offering some advice when he could, but his main business is a health food shop. I only really buy yeast from him, but always drop a few beers in when I can. He can get me grain if I need it, but it takes a bit of time. I understand also that there are only a handful of AG brewers in my area, so don't expect him to stock grain. I occasionally will do a kit/partial which I buy from him. But in reality I would only spend maybe $20.00 a month, as he doesn't stock much variety of yeast.

OT :icon_offtopic: To those that are looking to move to Tassie (Launceston?) - Hobart has a couple of brew shops. One of which I have never used and the other was alright for a while, but I no longer use them, due to a personal issue with the owner. There is quite a few AG brewers here and more seem to be starting all the time. We openly welcome any of you Northerners who want to come here and brew.
Cheers
LagerBomb


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## pk.sax (17/4/12)

LagerBomb said:


> We openly welcome any of you Northerners who want to come here and brew.
> Cheers
> LagerBomb


Careful what you wish for.... lol

Back OT, I paid 50% more than I would've with Online retailer to the LHBS for some finings, fully knowing the fact, but the fact is, the LHBS bothered to get it in on the recommendation of customers. Its a once in 10 brews kinda purchase, I can deal with that.
Also, I'd happily pay a $1-2 extra for a packet of liquid yeast to pick it up locally. But screw paying 50% extra when you need it that often.

The fdact that CB & G&G go through that much and manage to keep prices competitive is that they advertise, they participate in discussions and they have a system of pre-orders, including over email. Take Pat Casey for example, shop regional area, he does a WYeast pre-order, bothers to ring the customer before sending the final order off, has a decent range of stuff he stocks or can get in. Regardless of never living near his postcode or in the same state, I ordered my first WYeast from him.

There will always be retailers that take initiative and those that just complain, whinge and burrow deeper into their can stacks.


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## Zizzle (18/4/12)

I think the LHBS have the wrong business model.

If you are struggling with low product turnover and the online guys are eating your lunch, then why not take the hint?

If you can't beat em, join em.

Put a catalog online, offer competitive prices and decent service and build a reputation. Extra turnover from online sales would mean that it makes sense to buy in bulk and have fresh stock.

For a good gimmick, do what a lot of the US retailers do, offer flat rate shipping. Price it so that you win sometimes, lose sometimes, but mostly win. morebeer offers free shipping on orders over $60... guess where I shop most often.

People are social creatures. I'm sure the (enjoyable?) effort that some retailers put in here being jovial or offering advice pays back in spades.

Complaining that AG brewers don't come in enough or aren't loyal enough or whatever the excuse is just doesn't cut it.


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## leahy268 (18/4/12)

First of all far be it for me to go off about all LHBS.
I learnt to do these things from a LHBS. He had good solid advice and reasonable stocks of most things.
He closed(Marriage breakup, 2nd store that failed) and so forth.

The complaint I have is about the current only one and others like him.



Brewers Choice said:


> But it is a chicken and egg problem - AGers want fresh grain and hops (as well they should), but how many of you in the thread above have said that you only visit your LHBS when you need emergency supplies! A pallet of grain costs $2000 - it's a big risk for many stores to buy in fresh grain in the hope the someday an AGer will walk in. Liquid Yeast has a shelf life of about three months - probably about the time between visits by some brewers. Fresh hops come in 5kg packages - that's a lot of 60gm bags to sell before they go stale. Cans and essences, on the other hand, can sit on the shelf for a year or more before they go off! If you don't support the store regularly and work with the owner, then they will not take the financial risks to stock the products you want.



Yes but I won't go into your store if you don't have it. Certainly not if you don't have any advice worth me talking to you.
Guarantee though if you have good sound advice for me.



Brewers Choice said:


> So, if you want to have LHBS stock your product, you need to be faithful to them, educate them where necessary (store owners do not know everything and learn as much from their customers as from forums) and work with them to get what you want. Don't support them and they wither and die.



Educate HA!! My LHBS owner already knows everything there is to know.
Hence why he lost my business.
If he had been more interested in my business then he would still have it.
But when it's cheaper for me to buy my things from Brisbane including freight. (Including Brewers Choice, been a customer before)
And when the advice is useless or non-existant and the owner doesn't believe you can do anything a different way.
(I know of a lot of people up here who also refuse to go into his shop because of his attitude.)
How can you blame us for going elsewhere?

My attitude with this guy is now I don't care if it costs me more to get my stuff elsewhere I refuse to walk into his shop.


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## wessmith (18/4/12)

Andyd said:


> G'day Darren,
> 
> I'm pretty sure Coopers was/is supplied by Joe White, who did at one stage sell direct to the public but then stopped in favour of distributing through LHBS.
> 
> ...



JW may very well be the supplier today but back in the '90s it was Barrett Burston that indirectly supplied the crystal. Adelaide Malting Company (AMC) had the main supply contract for Coopers. They had a sort of roaster that produced a good roasted barley or roasted malt but not crystal. BB had a very good roaster (a German Barth unit - same as Weyermann use) but had had a fire in their afterburner that treats the fumes and smoke from the roaster at high temps. BB chose not to repair the unit so were restricted to crystal production only, so AMC and BB did a swap deal on product. The labels on the bags never changed. BB did eventually repair the afterburner and last I heard, the old AMC roaster was producing a special roast barley tea substitute for Japan.

Wes


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## manticle (18/4/12)

Brewers Choice said:


> things



Mate this is a good post and good to hear a different/alternative perspective.

What you say makes sense.

However I guess the difference between your store and many of those that get caned here is not just that AG is not massively catered for, it's that many of those who staff such stores have no knowledge of, nor interest in brewing methods such as AG.

If you have a customer who is interested in AG or who has been brewing it for a while, I doubt, based on your post that you or your staff would discredit it as a waste of time or try and push kits or out of date yeast on said customer. Even suggesting 'we can order that in for you if you give us some notice' will meet a better reaction than ' why would you want to do that shit?' Unfortunately these are real responses that some, including myself have had from some homebrew shops.

People don't, generally, cane a shop for not supplying the full range of grains and liquid yeast etc that are available here in AU. People, most generally crap on shops with bad advice and uninterested staff who also stock limited, out of date products.

I'm guessing that since you are actually interested in what a fairly small number of people think about home brew retailers and based on what you have written above, that you are not one of these people.

People will always shop where the balance between convenience, cheapness and availability of desired product is achieved. I'm guessing, to you as an experienced retailer, that's like me trying to teach my grandma to suck eggs and I apologise but showing interest in your clients does distinguish you from most HBS who are harshly, and often rightfully criticised.


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## pike1973 (18/4/12)

I'd like to class myself as a regular in the Wacol Brewers Choice store and every time I enter the store James says, How you going Adam as soon as i enter . I love it . He knows what he talking about, AG and averything else and he is never to busy to help me out, be it crack some grain at a seconds notice or help me out with a recipe. This is why I will always keep coming back . If all LHBS were this good the world would be a better place.
Just my 2c.
Thanks Adz.


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## pk.sax (18/4/12)

If you don't bag the idiots the good shops suffer from loss of noob business. Additionally, the bad ones turn away people who might be interested in brewing good beer because they follow the bad advice and make shit beer and never brew again.


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## Fish13 (18/4/12)

speaking of this Geraldton u brew it is closing/has closed.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (18/4/12)

I am afraid its survival of the fittest.
I see the stupid prices being charged by some in store retailers and wholesalers and think WTF ???
Hey if they want to send themselves broke by out pricing themselves.  
Big problem is when their wholesaler has them by the balls and is robbing them blind.
I feel for the buggers. I wouldnt open a door front or deal with a wholesaler unless I wanted to go broke.
We kind of do our own thing and like to develop our own product range I believe this is the way for our survival
Nev


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## Online Brewing Supplies (18/4/12)

fish13 said:


> speaking of this Geraldton u brew it is closing/has closed.


Just like Disco's and flares.


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## Fish13 (18/4/12)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Just like Disco's and flares.



about time?


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## Online Brewing Supplies (18/4/12)

fish13 said:


> about time?


Come on Fish, Bunbury is like the Snowtown of the southwest.
Still full of Disco's , flares and barrels of acid.
Nev


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## Fish13 (18/4/12)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Come on Fish, Bunbury is like the Snowtown of the southwest.
> Still full of Disco's , flares and barrels of acid.
> Nev



but no disused bank vaults though :S


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## Zizzle (19/4/12)

Does anyone in Oz do all grain beers kits yet?

We have gotten a couple of people into AG brewing here in the US.

Recipe formulation and ordering can be a bit daunting in the beginning so it's good to be able to tell someone to go find an AG kit that they like the sound of and just focus on the process.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/brewing.../all-grain-kits

With such a variety of kits you can see why some people never graduate to doing their own recipes.

But again, it's a value add by the retailer. So I'm sure the margin is better than just moving grain.


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## Wolfy (19/4/12)

Zizzle said:


> Does anyone in Oz do all grain beers kits yet?


Yes, some have even done kits based on recipes posted on these forums.


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## Truman42 (19/4/12)

Wolfy said:


> Yes, some have even done kits based on recipes posted on these forums.



Thats an awesome idea and what some of these smaller shops should be doing. Create All grain kits based on clone recipes complete with the hops and yeast all in a box ready to go with instructions. Have it unmilled and offer to mill if the customer wants that.
Even have small BIAB starter kits, with a 20 litre BigW pot, a voille bag, a Bunnings 20 litre cube and printed instructions based on Nicks $30 all grain thread.

My dad has been doing extract brewing for years and had no idea about BIAB until I told him about it, and I only stumbled upon it by finding this site.

The attitude that some of these smaller LHBS have that they don't sell it because its crap or a waste of time is why a lot of us don't go into their shops anymore.

On another note does anyone know what the brew shop in Rutherford road Seaford stocks? Ive seen his posters up all over the place but Im sure someone here told me he sells mainly grow and smoke rather than brew and drink.


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## bignath (19/4/12)

Truman said:


> Thats an awesome idea and what some of these smaller shops should be doing. Create All grain kits based on clone recipes complete with the hops and yeast all in a box ready to go with instructions. Have it unmilled and offer to mill if the customer wants that.



But if they cant tell you what to do with it once they put it all together in a pack for you then it's just another thing we'll be back here bitching about. 

For me, it's probably more about the attitude, knowledge, and experience (or lack of) than what's actually on their shelves.


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## [email protected] (19/4/12)

Basically comes down to massive generation gaps. 
Older generations could take a massive leaf out of someone like BribieG's book, only too happy to help and discuss experience and knowledge.

Living in a small country town and being quite bit younger than most i have experienced the ignorant/arrogant attitudes expressed by older generation shop owners. To the point that i don't feel comfortable going into the store.
I have had a shop owner say to me in a sneering way more than once after asking them a question, while trying to support their local business, " why dont you just look it up on the Internet" 

Personally i like to try and gain information from many sources as possible, so im always happy to listen to the older and wiser as there is usually something you can learn. 

I have 2 LHBS about and hour away in different directions and the first couple of times i went in there i asked can you order other things in for me which was met with " oh i think you will find we have everything you need here already" Lazy arrogant response.
I wont even buy DME extract any more as its just rubbish, due to poor storage or age or just crap i don't know? for cheaper including post i can get fresh quality briess extract from grain grape.


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## bum (19/4/12)

Truman said:


> Have it unmilled and offer to mill if the customer wants that.


From a retailer's POV, doesn't this defeat the whole point of offering such packs?


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## Truman42 (19/4/12)

bum said:


> From a retailer's POV, doesn't this defeat the whole point of offering such packs?



Well they could keep it all mixed as per the recipe in a bag unmilled so it stays fresh, and then mill when the customer purchases it. Or if the customer has his own mill he takes home as is.

Just an idea.


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## Feldon (19/4/12)

Brouwland in Belgium is hopefully what an HBS in Australia might one day look like (albeit maybe a bit smaller).

http://www.brouwland.com/en/

Brick & mortar presence is a retail shop with massive 3,700 squ meters of retail floor space, plus an online operation that sends stuff all over the world.

They also sell all grain kits ...

_BREWFERM MALT KITS 
You want to brew some beer from grain, but you dont have a recipe at hand or you dont know how to get started ? These ready-to-use malt kits from BREWFERM are the ideal solution. Containing all ingredients required to brew 15-20 litres of beer : malts, necessary special grains (wheat, corn flakes etc.), hops, necessary herbs and a dry brewing yeast. Assembled by our master brewer according to proven recipes and packed for optimal freshness. With comprehensive instructions and clear mashing schedule. _​
These kits come in many styles too...


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## GalBrew (19/4/12)

Yes, didn't really want to get into slagging off the LHBS, buy I remember some time ago buying some hops at my LHBS and they guy (kid?) behind the counter asked me what was inside that foil bag...........


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## Brewers Choice (19/4/12)

Pre-made kits would seem a good idea - we tried this for a while, but we still needed to get the hops and yeast from the fridge at the time of purchase, even for our K&K kits. Kind of defeats the idea. We have found far more success keeping a couple of books in the beer area with all our recipes for Kits, Extracts and AG brews. Customers go through them, select the recipe, we get the ingredients fresh and print out the recipe for them. This has moved a heap of K&K onto extract and also helps our new All-grainers who aren't ready to write their own recipes yet.

I can't believe that store owners can be so negative to customers. You should point out that you pay their wages! It's probably a good thing for the industry when stores like that close down.


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## Truman42 (19/4/12)

Brewers Choice said:


> Pre-made kits would seem a good idea - we tried this for a while, but we still needed to get the hops and yeast from the fridge at the time of purchase, even for our K&K kits. Kind of defeats the idea. We have found far more success keeping a couple of books in the beer area with all our recipes for Kits, Extracts and AG brews. Customers go through them, select the recipe, we get the ingredients fresh and print out the recipe for them. This has moved a heap of K&K onto extract and also helps our new All-grainers who aren't ready to write their own recipes yet.
> 
> I can't believe that store owners can be so negative to customers. You should point out that you pay their wages! It's probably a good thing for the industry when stores like that close down.



Whatver works...At last your doing it because thats what your customers want insted of saying.."Why do you want to bother with that crap, here just use this tin....."


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## DJR (19/4/12)

AFAIK Craftbrewer does do recipe packs like Smurto's GA, at least the grain, the hops are a bit harder to split on demand (but 90g of Amarillo will do it)


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## peterlonz (19/4/12)

My 2 cents worth:

LHBS vary in the quality of advice available, & in the variety of product offered.
It's common sense that in more thinly populated areas, the demand for AG brewing will likely be so low that allocating space & stock to low turnover product is just unwise.
Yes I agree generally (my observations of Qld's Gold Coast) they offer predominantly kits & distilling stuff.
One LHBS does offer CO2 bottle filling, sample beer tasting, & is open extended hours (Palm Beach) so he gets my support.
I have brewed from kits the last 30 years of a brewing "career" lasting 40 years, & I now finally use 6 kegs (Cornie 19 litre), & would use more if my damned fridge was bigger!
My biggest cost is the kit & AFAIK I can't get them (delivered) at lower cost by on line means. 
My kegs were however better & cheaper using an on line Aussie supplier (??).
BTW "Big W" have quite often had the Coopers kits on special at really low prices around 10$. Yestreday the were around $13.

Regarding Coopers:
They have been around forever & their kits are dependable, can't say for sure if they are the best or just amongst the best
When I phoned for advice about some kits past the use by date, they advised correctly, & offered to replace the yeast at no cost. I soon received 12 sachets of assorted yeasts. Good on ya Coopers!
Coopers supply supermarkets only with "basic kits" & the LHBS with their better more recently developed kits which cost more. This has put them onside with the LHBS.


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## glenwal (19/4/12)

Brewers Choice said:


> We have found far more success keeping a couple of books in the beer area with all our recipes for Kits, Extracts and AG brews.


A half half idea might work - where you have a book with the recipies, with a price for the recipie that covers everything you need. Kind of like a McValue meal.

edit: spelling


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (19/4/12)

peterlonz said:


> My 2 cents worth:
> 
> LHBS vary in the quality of advice available, & in the variety of product offered.
> It's common sense that in more thinly populated areas, the demand for AG brewing will likely be so low that allocating space & stock to low turnover product is just unwise.
> ...



Which is fantastic - if you want to remain doing kits. Your LHBS does everything you want, and that's good for you. I dare say that if you weren't happy with the results, you wouldn't have stuck with the hobby for the last 40 odd years, so good for you in finding what works for you.

But for those of us that want to do all-grain, the LHBS who specialises in kit and "spiritual" activities, is as useless as Big W. It's like going to a motorbike dealer to buy a car. Yeah - they both sell things with an engine in common, but not what you're looking for.

Good on Coopers for looking after you though!

I get my bottle filled more locally - both the price is cheaper and the overnight turnover is pretty decent. He's got nothing else I want, and I might take him some beer one day, just to see what's possible, but otherwise there's nothing I buy that he sells.

Goomba


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## glenwal (19/4/12)

peterlonz said:


> BTW "Big W" have quite often had the Coopers kits on special at really low prices around 10$. Yestreday the were around $13.



Just don't buy from Big W online. 

I ordered a coopers ginger beer kit a few weeks ago. Took over a week for them to dispatch my item (even though it was listed as in stock when i ordered), and then 4 days for Aus Post to "deliver it". The icing on the cake was when I got home from work to find another package (something i'd ordered elsewhere) sitting at my door, with a "sorry we missed you" slip on top for my Big W order (both had been delivered by Australia Post together). When I placed the order with Big W, i ticked the box for "Leave package unattended" (and this is confirmed in the various emails they sent me - listed in the delivery instructions section), yet when I finally picked it up it had "Requires Signature for delivery" written on it. The only reason I ordered it online was because I didn't have time to get to Big W - and then I had to find time to go to the post office in the end anyway (which is actually harder because their opening hours are less).


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## bowie in space (19/4/12)

I love the convenience of the Craftbrewer set up. I order and pay online with a pick up time suggested, then I drive ten minutes, walk in and my stuff is ready. I only wait half a minute while the guy grabs my yeast out of the fridge, them I'm out again. I barely speak to Ross, he's a busy guy anyway and I don't wanna pester him with questions like "can you really ferment S-189 at 18C"? That's why we have AHB.

My first LHBS in Richmond, Melbourne was a horrifying ordeal. The guy had no knowledge of grain brewing and was very insulting of my cleaning and sanitation regime. The kit packs were way overpriced and their sample beers were shit. I then discovered this website and found that G&G were way closer to where I lived. Both of the businesses mentioned above have fresh wort kits made on premises and offer brewing demonstrations to the public. The ingredients are usually of high standards and they generally support the brewing clubs and communities. Kits and bits stores will keep dying off because they only attract a small proportion of an an already small market. The guy up at Bribie Island couldn't give a shit about craft beer, in fact, he is more concerned about getting his bets on for the Saturday races and closing early to get down to the pub and drink xxxx. 


A little off topic;

For any retail business to survive these days you need to offer great service, knowledge, price and convenience. I managed the CD department at JB Hi-Fi for about seven years and saw the downward trend towards buying hard copies of CD's that were overpriced at $30. People don't buy CD's like they used to but it doesn't mean people aren't listening to the same amount of music. Online sales (and stealing) has increased dramatically and really meant that I needed to look for a new job. Plus the company wasn't hiring music minded people anymore and that trend has continued across a lot of retail businesses. Business owners really need to wake up. Old fashioned customer service is dead in so many stores and if you don't want to deal with rude and ignorant staff, then you shop online. Less retail real estate costs means cheaper prices on goods.

Back on topic;

Compared to your avarage LHBS that stocks kits and bits, places like G&G and Craftbrewer have a point of difference to the consumer, both places are operated by people who are passionate about beer. There has been the odd occasion where I haven't received the best customer service from both these places, but I can't argue with the range of products, prices, knowledge and convenience. The craft brewing industry is such a niche market and the brewing community recognises this and subsequently supports the businesses that are dedicated to the cause. 

Bowie


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## eviljesus (19/4/12)

Brewers Choice said:


> <snip>
> 
> I can't believe that store owners can be so negative to customers. You should point out that you pay their wages! It's probably a good thing for the industry when stores like that close down.



I have actually experienced this attitude in a BC in Brisbane area while being a complete noob starting with K&K. I've since gained a fair amount of knowledge (relative to what I did know) and now get on with the bloke fairly well. That said, if I wasn't fairly thick skinned, the embarrassment of being made a dick of infront of other customers or the persons in question's mates, I probably wouldn't of gone back. 

Also to be fair, the fella from BC in Annerley is outstanding. Knowledgeable and super pleasant to deal with all the time. I have no problem supporting stores such as his and personally have mates that drive across the city to pick up anything they need, regardless if there is a closer brew shop.


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## hsb (19/4/12)

My LHBS helped get me from Kits to Partials and then I moved onto AG on my own.
For that I thank them and their help at every visit.

I did find every visit to the store like visiting some kind of weird men's self-help group.

Nervous shuffling..."So I put the second can in three days ago in the shed but..."

It must be very trying dealing with customers constantly who are either total noobs or maybe worse still have internet wisdom to practice.
I can't think of many businesses where you are expected to teach your customers how to use your products and provide advice that is then subject to trial by internet wisdom, all to keep the customer happy.
They look like a tough gig LHBS, I can't imagine anyone ever opened one to become rich.

I'm grateful for every one that exists in my area, at least they offer choice. Boo to the supermarkets, I do all I can to minimise my business with supermarkets or bunnings and the like, they kill local business, they kill choice, they kill communities imho.

Sorry to see another LHBS hit the wall. Doesn't help any of us.


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## sim (19/4/12)

Amen! Well said.




hsb said:


> Boo to the supermarkets, I do all I can to minimise my business with supermarkets or bunnings and the like, they kill local business, they kill choice, they kill communities imho.



and +1.


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## alfadog (1/6/12)

The LHBS at Kedron is set to change hands soon, may be just the thing it needs


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## Bribie G (1/6/12)

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Mark's Home Brew in Newcastle. He has a program where you can design a beer, email in the recipe and he'll have the pack made up ready for you to collect. 

Ross will also do up a recipe pack. If you have ever ordered grain from CB you will have seen the buttons at checkout "Mixed / Unmixed", "milled / Unmilled". That's what they are there for. 


Can't be bothered to read the 80 odd posts so I may have commented already, but my experience with older business owners (and I've met heaps, being an ex Allens Sweets and Rothmans rep) is that most of them have bought themselves a job using their redundancy payout. On buying the LHBS it often becomes a gift and fancy goods shop - our LHBS on Bribie sells garden gnomes as a sideline - and most of the local shops are mainly into spirits anyway. I dropped in there recently to see if he did JG fittings and it was quite busy for a change but I seemed to be the only beer guy there. 

I'd have to say that Brewers Choice are a standout in Bris, haven't had much to do with the other towns.


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## sean83 (1/6/12)

I'd have to say that Brewers Choice are a standout in Bris, haven't had much to do with the other towns.
[/quote]

I would definetly agree, Brewers choice have more than helped me progress from basic K&K to AG brewing as well as steering me down other paths such as beef jerky and other such side hobbies. But it is also the approach they have to dealing with customers, the Enoggera store is my local and the boys in there are not only happy to help but also sit and chat, weather it be beer related or not. I find now even my wife is happy to drop in and grab the odd cracked grain for me and no longer feels uncomfortable about it. My hats go off to them and I believe they have the right idea for longevity within the industry.

Sean


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## Rob S (1/6/12)

Bribie G said:


> I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Mark's Home Brew in Newcastle. He has a program where you can design a beer, email in the recipe and he'll have the pack made up ready for you to collect.



And the program saves your brews for you. You can make your own or choose one of the dozens of other saved beers. I love Brewbuilder. :icon_cheers:


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## mondestrunken (1/6/12)

DJR said:


> A bit OT here, but if i go into a shop again and I ask someone what something does or if it is a good product and they read the blurb on the back of the packet, I am going to lose my shit with them.  Maybe i visit the wrong shops!


Agreed, these type of people are usually the ones who are on your balls with "can I help you?" in the first place.


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## Harry Volting (1/6/12)

+1 MHB's Brewbuilder. Doesn't get any easier. Check it out.


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## Fish13 (1/6/12)

Yeap Gryphon brewing does that too! Nev will even help you with the recipe if there is a problem with it. I pushed my hbs to get more grain and they have responded in doing so. Awesome it is


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## Parks (1/6/12)

alfadog said:


> The LHBS at Kedron is set to change hands soon, may be just the thing it needs


I got an email yesterday or today saying a new Brewer's Choice store was opening at Kedron so that must be it.

It will make getting my BIL setup for brewing sooo much easier


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## InCider (1/6/12)

alfadog said:


> The LHBS at Kedron is set to change hands soon, may be just the thing it needs






Parks said:


> I got an email yesterday or today saying a new Brewer's Choice store was opening at Kedron so that must be it.
> 
> It will make getting my BIL setup for brewing sooo much easier



Is that the one on the east side of the Gympie road that is open on weekends? Never been there, but it makes me feel good that if I was short of a yeast sachet on a weekend I could score.

The LHBS in Beerwah ... good for a C02 refill.


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## alfadog (1/6/12)

InCider said:


> Is that the one on the east side of the Gympie road that is open on weekends? Never been there, but it makes me feel good that if I was short of a yeast sachet on a weekend I could score.



Thats the one, just near the music store, lets just hope the new manager is as passionate about beer as Sim is


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## dr K (1/6/12)

MHB's system is quite simply, spectacular.
It creates a bit of work for the retailer (I mean these are bespoke kits) but allows a customer to get what they want, when they want with no storage, no bulk bags and no hastle.
I am associated with a retail business here in Canberra, and yes I have asked for my "Status" to be changed even though that business sells >99% into Canberra so i speak with some gravity.
In the words of Molly..do yourself a favour and check out MHB !
http://www.ubrew.com.au

K


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## Diggs (1/6/12)

alfadog said:


> Thats the one, just near the music store, lets just hope the new manager is as passionate about beer as Sim is



Got to deal with Sim the other w/e at Enogerra. Gotta says he's a bloody legend. Helped me sort out my first AG BIAB and a few other things.
Makes my experience with other local stores seem very weak. Very happy cust. Cheers BC


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## Bribie G (1/6/12)

Parks said:


> I got an email yesterday or today saying a new Brewer's Choice store was opening at Kedron so that must be it.
> 
> It will make getting my BIL setup for brewing sooo much easier



A Brewers choice at Kedron would be fricken awesome. I've only been to the Enoggera store a couple of times as it's a cut lunch and take your two man tent trip from Bribie Island - however excellent stock and a BC store on Gympie Road would be very feasible for driving into work and picking up yeasts ans spec grains and other bits. Much as I love Rosscoe's setup, Capalaba is just too far for a "casual drop in" visit for many outer Northsiders, and it would be great to support in even my small way a good franchise.


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## Brewman_ (1/6/12)

Thumbs up for Marks, (MHB) system. The software and user interface is one thing it gives you a great starting point for a style, or brewery you may be interested in, or the flexibility to do your own thing entirely. The Key is that the service is great. Plan you brew, place your order with the pickup or delivery details and it's job done.

I know that Mark is always tweaking the recipes based on tasting of the outcome of the recipes on the data base, so things will continue to improve.

Fear_n_loath


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## grod5 (2/6/12)

fear_n_loath said:


> Thumbs up for Marks, (MHB) system. The software and user interface is one thing it gives you a great starting point for a style, or brewery you may be interested in, or the flexibility to do your own thing entirely. The Key is that the service is great. Plan you brew, place your order with the pickup or delivery details and it's job done.
> 
> I know that Mark is always tweaking the recipes based on tasting of the outcome of the recipes on the data base, so things will continue to improve.
> 
> Fear_n_loath




FnL, Mark's System includes a humanoid (Shaun) who has improved the delivery of a great product, The humanoid form is a tad weedy but still manages to bring it strong. 

Just sayin'


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## Brewman_ (2/6/12)

grod5 said:


> FnL, Mark's System includes a humanoid (Shaun) who has improved the delivery of a great product, The humanoid form is a tad weedy but still manages to bring it strong.
> 
> Just sayin'



Hey Grod5,

Your 100% right, Shaun is a big part of the service and overall delivery. He is a good brewer that can help any other brewer out at the shop.


Fear_n_loath


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## Parks (2/6/12)

I hope this wasn't privileged info, but here's the main content of the email:



Brewers Choice said:


> Brewers Choice are excited to announce that as of the 12th of June, we will have a new store as part of our brewing family. Brewers Choice will be taking over the Home Brew Barn in Kedron.
> 
> Although Brewers Choice will now have six stores, it's still just run by two brothers and a bunch of staff who love brewing. When the opportunity came up to bring Kedron into the Brewers Choice fold, we felt it was a great fit to better service our Brisbane Customers, particularly on the northside.
> 
> ...


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## Wimmig (2/6/12)

+1 to the brewbuilder with Mark. It's where i do all my orders from now. Love the ease, saving features & build info. That, and i just can't beat the postage. Hell, per beer/AG batch it's cheaper than a single section bus ticket to the LHBS.


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## Parks (2/6/12)

Maybe you'd like to run a BC store Bribie?!


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## Bribie G (2/6/12)

I ran a LHBS in Maryborough in the late 70s - the most common question being "why isn't my airlock bubbling" believe it or not. :huh: 

I think I've done my time in the service of the craft :icon_cheers:


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## humulus (2/6/12)

+1for MHB and brew builder top service and excellent postage,I also support my LHBS kirrawee home brew also great service :icon_cheers:


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## TidalPete (2/6/12)

> who actually ran a LHBS in the late 1970s at the time that HB was getting a go-on with the first kits on the market.


What a shame I didn't know you were just down the road when I went back to see my dad multiple times a year Bribie?  
All those party years wasted.  

Back on-topic ----- I doubt that my LHBS at Caloundra will ever fold what with the increasing number of residents in God's Waiting Room who just need a cheap & easy alternative to XXXX, VB, whatever.

TP


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## Clutch (2/6/12)

TidalPete said:


> What a shame I didn't know you were just down the road when I went back to see my dad multiple times a year Bribie?
> All those party years wasted.
> 
> Back on-topic ----- I doubt that my LHBS at Caloundra will ever fold what with the increasing number of residents in God's Waiting Room who just need a cheap & easy alternative to XXXX, VB, whatever.
> ...



You can't deny that a lot of the LHBS, regardless that they may not stock AG gear, will be a stepping stone to guys doing AG.


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## TidalPete (2/6/12)

Bribie G said:


> Much as I love Rosscoe's setup, Capalaba is just too far for a "casual drop in" visit for many outer Northsiders.



Perhaps a Northside franchise Bribie?  
Doing the trip by train & bus next Wednesday. Faster by car but drink & drive don't work no more.

TP


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## Harry Volting (2/6/12)

+1 the MHB weedy guy. Takes no shit from the mill and knows how to vacuum pack em pellets (just sayin).
And he reckons he's never heard of Zywiec Porter. Go Shaun.


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## staggalee (2/6/12)

Diggs said:


> Got to deal with Sim the other w/e at Enogerra. Gotta says he's a bloody legend. Helped me sort out my first AG BIAB and a few other things.
> Makes my experience with other local stores seem very weak. Very happy cust. Cheers BC



A certain HBS owner and myself almost came to fisticuffs last time I was in there :lol:
Not one of those mentioned on here tho, and a few years ago before he moved shop further out on northside.
He didn`t mind a drink on a hot day, but one was too many and 40 not enough. It wasn`t a good idea to agitate him when he had a Saturday morning hangover.
No, not a good idea at all. :lol:


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## Muggus (2/6/12)

Feldon said:


> These kits come in many styles too...
> 
> View attachment 53879


Like the sound of the Beaver Ale...  


But yes, also a big thumbs up to MHB and Brew Builder. Revolutionising (sp?) AG brewing! Feel priveleged to have such a great resource in Mark and the store so close to home.

Bit different from my LHBS when I was back down in Sydney. Not a bad store, and it does alright business, but very much focused on Kits...AG was difficult down there, and even the shop owners didn't have a great deal of experience with making beer that way.
Whereas MHB, very much pro AG brewer, and really pushes "serious" brewers in the right direction to not only get them into AG, but brew better beer in general. That's what a homebrew shop should be about.


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## blackbock (2/6/12)

mondestrunken said:


> Agreed, these type of people are usually the ones who are on your balls with "can I help you?" in the first place.



Most people like to be acknowledged when they enter a store. You could just as easily criticize someone for ignoring you. 
Retail would be an OK job, if only for the %&*wit customers!


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## Fish13 (5/6/12)

blackbock said:


> Most people like to be acknowledged when they enter a store. You could just as easily criticize someone for ignoring you.
> Retail would be an OK job, if only for the %&*wit customers!



i did retail. I hate you *****! i did pizza making and delivieries for 6 years. i hate you *****. Auto parts - GTFO!

Alot of customers just like to be acknowledged. A simple hello is more then enough but if a customer - after you greet them - needs a hand and you walk away is just rude and poor form. Seen it done a many of times. I have walked out of maccas after seeing 4 of them talking for a good 5 minutes. Fuckem if they dont want my money.

ANyway back on topic. Had a beer with Nev. I want his shed!


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## mondestrunken (15/6/12)

blackbock said:


> Most people like to be acknowledged when they enter a store. You could just as easily criticize someone for ignoring you.
> Retail would be an OK job, if only for the %&*wit customers!



Well, I normally say hello when I go into a shop.

My comment was about people asking if you need "help", and then not actually helping.

And if it's a small shop I normally say thank you as I leave too. I've never worked in retail but I do have sympathy!


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