# How Long After Kegging Before Drinking?



## poida (16/3/07)

Hi Guys,

I've had heaps of trouble making a beer that tastes good since I bought my keg system and I've gone through all sorts of troubleshooting to figure out why. But it's got me thinking that maybe I'm not waiting long enough before I start drinking it, and then when I do and it doesn't smell or taste right, I dismiss it as being a bad batch.

So how long after kegging/gassing should I wait before pouring my first beer? Every beer I make seems to have this distinctive taste to it and I've been through everything imaginable to figure out why, but maybe this is the taste of beer that isn't aged properly??? They taste good from the fermenter and I've tried all sorts of santising rituals and replaced all sorts of things thinking I had an infection etc. When I pour a beer I can smell it straight away and it's kind of a sweet sort of taste.

I have left the kegs alone for more than a week before and poured a beer and it still had this weird taste, but maybe its because it was sucking up the stuff on the bottom of the keg.

So anyway, just wanted to know what other people do and if their first pour usually doesn't taste very nice.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## goatherder (16/3/07)

I wait just as long as it takes to get cold and fizzy, then I'm in to it.

Tell us a bit more about your beer. Are you making kits or otherwise? What sort of yeast, what's your fermentation schedule. How would you describe the off taste?

I guess I'm saying it's probably the beer, not the kegs. Tell us some more. The first beer out of the keg can have a yeasty taste, but once it's settled it goes.

I don't know where Wolli Creek is, but I'm sure there is someone here who is close by. It will be well worth catching up with an AHBer and giving them a sample of your brew. They might be able to point you in the right direction - tell you if it is an infection or something different.


----------



## poida (16/3/07)

goatherder said:


> I wait just as long as it takes to get cold and fizzy, then I'm in to it.
> 
> Tell us a bit more about your beer. Are you making kits or otherwise? What sort of yeast, what's your fermentation schedule. How would you describe the off taste?
> 
> ...



Hey mate,

I've done variety of different brews. The latest is a fresh wort pils. I think your right in saying its the beer, but buggered if I know what I'm doing wrong.

This latest one I brewed using a saflager yeast in the fridge. I kept the temp at about 12 degrees for 7 days and then racked to another fermenter for a further 7 days at the same temp. I transferred it to the keg 2 days ago. I know you're supposed to lager it but after so many bad ones (this would be the 8th) I've run out of patience.

The FG of this one was 1014. Didn't seem to want to budge from there so I kegged it.

Wolli Creek where I live is in Sydney, half way between Rockdale and Tempe on the princes highway so if there is anyone around here that wants to offer their asisstance you are more than welcome.

The thing that is really shitting me is that I have a friend who has no clue at all and is making K&K brews using the tin and 1kg of dextrose, fermenting for 10 days at 28 degrees and then into the keg, and it tastes better than mine. His arn't the best beer I've ever had, but they're certainly drinkable. I got him into brewing after he tried one of my earlier brews that were bottled. It's ever since I moved up here and bought the keg system that I haven't brewed a decent beer.

Cheers


----------



## razz (16/3/07)

Poida old mate it sounds like you need to change the seals in the kegs. If you pull out the large O ring in the lid it will probably smell like fanta, solo or cola. Mine smelt heavily of solo and it will get into your beer.


----------



## poida (16/3/07)

Hey Razz,

I've already done that  I got a seal kit from Ross and replaced them all in both kegs i own.

I did a test and poured some beer in the hydrometer tube from the keg just to see if what I said about tasting good from the fermenter was correct and to me it tasted the same as before. But when I pull a glass full it's totally different. I know that sounds crazy but to me thats what it seems like.

I guess I'm just nuts. But I think that confirms that the problem is with the beer itself. I just don't know what to do next.


----------



## deadly (16/3/07)

> This latest one I brewed using a saflager yeast in the fridge. I kept the temp at about 12 degrees for 7 days and then racked to another fermenter for a further 7 days at the same temp. I transferred it to the keg 2 days ago.





> K&K brews using the tin and 1kg of dextrose, fermenting for 10 days at 28 degrees and then into the keg, and it tastes better than mine.



answered your own question i think.


----------



## Darren (16/3/07)

razz said:


> Poida old mate it sounds like you need to change the seals in the kegs. If you pull out the large O ring in the lid it will probably smell like fanta, solo or cola. Mine smelt heavily of solo and it will get into your beer.




Poida,

If it is the dreaded coke/pepsi/fanta/solo taint you will also need to replace the poppets and o-rings in the connectors.

cheers

Darren


----------



## Stuster (16/3/07)

Not sure I have much to add on the keg front, but poida, tomorrow there's a meeting of the Inner Sydney Brewers club. It's more a piss up than anything else, though Ben's going to be doing an AG brew demo as well. Anyway, you are more than welcome to come along, sample some beers and have a chat. Bring some beer (or even the keg) along and we might be able to help you sort it out. It's in Stanmore and PM me for the details if you can make it.

There are definitely some other brewers down your way who mght be able to help you out with this as well.


----------



## Tony (16/3/07)

Whats your regulator like?

I got a heap of second hand ones from ebay and when i hooked one up it made my beer taste like dirt. 

I blamed the kegs because i had never had a problem with bottles.

I swapped the regulators after 2 foul 50 liter kegs and it was fixed.

is there something bad in your gas lines, tha gas has to pass through this to go in the beer and you have 2.5 schooners of gas in your schooner of beer.

I would be pulling everything apart and giving it all a good caustic wash.

other than that, its hard to tell without tasting it.

i hope someone on here can help u out with a tasting.

cheers


----------



## pb unleaded (16/3/07)

I have the same problem. Tipped out 5 AG batches, they just don't taste like beer. I sugest you brew one K&K batch with same setup, kegs etc. (but not at 28deg) and see how it turns out. I am going to do that myself.


----------



## poida (16/3/07)

Hi Guys,

Darren: Yeah I don't think its the kegs now after having a tasting from the hydrometer tube that was poured from the keg, it tasted the the same as it did when I took a sample from the fermenter which I thought tasted good. Yet when I pour a full glassful it is totally different and has this sweet kind of taste. So I guess its a problem with the beer I'm brewing rather than the kegs.

Stuster: Thanks for letting me know about the meeting. Unfortunatly I'm tied up tomorrow but I would like to come along at some point. I'll keep an eye out for the next meeting.

Tony: The very first time I kegged I used the shake rattle and roll method and got beer through the regulator. But I've since replaced the regulator and all the lines. I also washed and santised the disconnects. but like I mentioned above, I think the problem is with the actual beer. I guess I need an experienced brewer to taste it.

I've been reading so many posts on here and come up with so many different ideas as to what is going wrong. I think I've tried them all but keep suggesting things and hopefully there is something I haven't thought of.


----------



## poida (16/3/07)

arthur said:


> I have the same problem. Tipped out 5 AG batches, they just don't taste like beer. I sugest you brew one K&K batch with same setup, kegs etc. (but not at 28deg) and see how it turns out. I am going to do that myself.



Hey mate,

OK, so I'm not alone  Atleast I didn't put in as mucn effort as an AG brew, but still, waiting 2 weeks+ to find out its no good is still pretty frustrating.

Maybe I worded that earlier post wrong. I mean't that my friend brewed "his" beer at 28 degrees and they turned out better than mine. I've since informed him about temp control.

Anyway, I have attempted a K&K brew to see what happens and it has the exact same off taste as this one. I did a K&K because it was getting expensive wasting brews from a fresh wort kit. If you are in the same boat as me, I don't think brewing a K&K is going to be any different because its something other than the ingredients that is the problem, at least in my case anyway.


----------



## pb unleaded (16/3/07)

You are probably in a different boat than me, it seems you tried nearly everytning. I haven't yet. 
Have you bottled any beers? Are they same as your keg?
I knew you wasn't brewing at 28, I meant just do K&K but you already had.


----------



## Tony (16/3/07)

how do u steralise?

Maybe u have an infection that u cant shake ?

just throwing ideas around.

cheers


----------



## tangent (17/3/07)

good point Tony
could be an infection

what about taps?
you've replaced everything apart from the kegs themselves and the taps


----------



## poida (17/3/07)

Tony said:


> how do u steralise?
> 
> Maybe u have an infection that u cant shake ?
> 
> ...



I guess it could be some sort of infection. I've tried all sorts of stuff but the latest was a good soak in a hydrogen peroxide mixture for 24hrs. Anyway, I've decided to go back to basics. Tomorrow I'm going to buy myself a new home brew kit and see how I go with that.

Obviouslty I don't expect to brew the greatest beer ever, but it can't get any worse. If this one comes out tops then I guess all my other gear is getting the shaft.

Anyway, thanks for all your suggestions.


----------



## tangent (17/3/07)

in a situation like this, i'd suggest splitting a batch and bottling some.
then pull EVERYTHING that'll come apart, apart. Taps (they do come apart), o-rings, dip-tubes, everything. And forget the weird stuff just blast everything with a phos sanitiser like Starsan that's meant for the job.


----------



## Uncle Fester (17/3/07)

I'm with Tangent on this one. I would bottle a few as controls to see if they "mature" the same way as the kegged beer.

Is it possible that you have tainted CO2?

Maybe a refill of your gas bottle (or borrow another bottle and reg to do a force carb with different gas) to see if that changes anything?


Festa.


----------



## Inge (11/9/07)

Uncle Fester said:


> I'm with Tangent on this one. I would bottle a few as controls to see if they "mature" the same way as the kegged beer.
> 
> Is it possible that you have tainted CO2?
> 
> ...



Adding to this one. I am trying an ESB that I kegged about 6 weeks ago, and it's bloody awful, it has a sweet, almost plastic like smell and taste (the same one I think you are talking about) that completely overpowers the taste of the beer. My APA, and Hefe (both in different kegs) taste fine. 

Also, my little brother got his grubby mitts on the regulator, turned the pressure down and i ended up with beer in the gas lines (and possibly the regulator itself). Of course I realised this while carbing it up :angry: 

I'd be inclined to replace all the lines, pull apart the regulator, clean the keg thoroughly. Have you tried filling the keg with water, carbing it, and seeing if the same taste is picked up? Try this after each cleaning step.


----------



## mfdes (11/9/07)

I'm trying to cover the very basics here.

When you replaced the o-ring seal on the keg, are you still drinking the same beer or have you tried a brand new batch since? Once the beer is tainted it'll stay so after you change the ring. 
Maybe you have an oxidation problem. But usually they don't start till weeks after kegging. 

Do you pick up the off flavour straight after you keg or does it take a while to develop?
If it's straight away that suggests to me you're likely to have a taint in the keg, seals or lines. Is your system new or second hand? I've had to soak the lines in percarbonate based cleaners before to remove off flavours after long storage. I recommend home brand nappy soaker for the kegs as well. Your sanitation sounds OK, but sanitisers don't ckean. Have you soaked the kegs in hot water and strong detergent and scrubbed them inside (with a soft pad, you don't want to scratch them?
if the off flavour develops after a while then I think you either have a wild yeast / bacterial infection (some of the flavours produced by these are often described as medicinal and plasticky) or an oxidation / handling problem.
It's a shame this has happened to you. I have been completely happy with my kegs since I bought them years ago still full of nameless pongy brown gunk. They needed a good soak and clean before use!

MFS


----------



## poida (11/9/07)

Hehe maybe I should have posted back that I solved this problem quite some time ago. It ended up being some sort of infection that was caused by the fermenters I was using. Quite strange because there was no visible signs of infection and the taste only really stood out once the beer was carbonated (which is why I pointed the finger at the kegging system I'd just purchased).

Didn't seem to matter what sort of chemicals I used to try and get rid of it, so I just retired those fermenters.

Anyway, I decided to just buy new fermenters and haven't had the problem since.

Thanks for all the suggestions here. If anything, you helped me not to give up on it


----------



## Inge (11/9/07)

poida said:


> Hehe maybe I should have posted back that I solved this problem quite some time ago. It ended up being some sort of infection that was caused by the fermenters I was using. Quite strange because there was no visible signs of infection and the taste only really stood out once the beer was carbonated (which is why I pointed the finger at the kegging system I'd just purchased).
> 
> Didn't seem to matter what sort of chemicals I used to try and get rid of it, so I just retired those fermenters.
> 
> ...



You will be brewing for a long time yet, mate. I'm pretty sure that everybody goes through these kind of hurdles when doing anything new. My first K + K was a travesty, my first mash was riddled with problems, my kegging setup gave me nightmares at the start, first relationship was a shambles  etc. etc. 

Anyway, to save making a new thread; I am trying to get the taint out of my new kegs, which persisted after initial cleaning unlike my first two kegs. I've found that percarbonate based cleaners left overnight in an upside down keg works quite well to clean the easy to miss taint-sludge traces from the top of the keg. Would it be good to remove the poppets from and boil them in a percarbonate solution, or would it suffice to run the solution through the lines under pressure and leave it?


----------



## rwh (12/9/07)

I pull the lot apart when I buy them, and soak all the bits and pieces in keg cleaner (oxyper in my case), checking all the seals, and replacing them if necessary. Then put it all back together lubing up the rubber parts with food-grade lube. Before putting beer in the keg, I put in a litre of water plus a tablespoon of oxyper, shake the hell out of it, leave it to sit for a bit, shake again, then rinse and sanitise with idophor.

Actually, come to think of it, I've replaced all the poppets on mine because that was a source of leaks on at least two of my four kegs.


----------



## Inge (12/9/07)

Hey mate,

I did just that. Actually went to the effort of pulling everything apart, soaking it all in boiling caustic, rinsing and putting it back together, and giving it a final rinse out with a 1% peroxide solution.

No more taint, except for the seals, but I've got a bucket load of replacement seals coming in from Ross, so all will be well in the universe soon.


----------



## rwh (12/9/07)

Cool. Oh, one more thing, I run the oxyper through my taps and lines too to clean both the pick up tube in the keg and the lines/taps.


----------



## drsmurto (12/9/07)

rwh said:


> I pull the lot apart when I buy them, and soak all the bits and pieces in keg cleaner (oxyper in my case), checking all the seals, and replacing them if necessary. Then put it all back together lubing up the rubber parts with food-grade lube. Before putting beer in the keg, I put in a litre of water plus a tablespoon of oxyper, shake the hell out of it, leave it to sit for a bit, shake again, then rinse and sanitise with idophor.
> 
> Actually, come to think of it, I've replaced all the poppets on mine because that was a source of leaks on at least two of my four kegs.



How easy is it to replace the poppets? I am thinking its where my leak is. Also, one of my JG fittings seems to leak a bit when i move it. Is this normal?


----------



## rwh (12/9/07)

They're easy to replace, just a bit pricey, $3.50 from G&G. You just screw the whole valve off the keg, to do that you'll need a set of spanners that have the normal spanner on one end and the star-type circle thing on the other to fit the gas in one.

As for the John Guest fittings, if one's leaking, remove it and cut a bit of the hose off and refit it... it should make a good seal, but if you damage (by scratching or whatever) the outside of the hose, the seal can be disrupted. At least that's what I found.


----------



## SJW (14/9/07)

> I pull the lot apart when I buy them, and soak all the bits and pieces in keg cleaner (oxyper in my case), checking all the seals, and replacing them if necessary. Then put it all back together lubing up the rubber parts with food-grade lube. Before putting beer in the keg, I put in a litre of water plus a tablespoon of oxyper, shake the hell out of it, leave it to sit for a bit, shake again, then rinse and sanitise with idophor.
> 
> Actually, come to think of it, I've replaced all the poppets on mine because that was a source of leaks on at least two of my four kegs.



Is this Oxyper the same as Pink Stain? I find pink stain great for cleaning everything.

Steve


----------



## rwh (14/9/07)

No, I think they're different products. My Oxyper comes in white granules and is similar to drain cleaner.


----------



## tangent (14/9/07)

oxyper is sodium percarbonate - napisan

pink stain is a chlorine based cleaner from what i gather from the net.


----------



## SJW (14/9/07)

There we go, a little research revealed that Pink Stain or Neo Pink is Chlorinated trisodium phosphate. I am no scientist but in my experience Pink Stain works heaps better than Napi San. Napi San is soapier and takes a long time to rinse off. Pink stain or Chlorinated trisodium phosphate is different IMO.

STEVE


----------

