# Beer line cleaning with Trisodium Phosphate



## Bribie G (20/7/14)

I recently bought a big tub of Tricleanium from Bunnings, it's pure TSP and I see that this alkaline chemical is good for cleaning beer lines - leave one hour then flush with clean water. I've also been using TSP for renovating beer glasses... brings them up like new, and for washing out fermenters.

I've used it for my beer lines today and they came up really well. I followed the rinse with a Starsan solution that will stay in the lines till I use them again.

I thought I'd post a heads up for brewers who aren't near a LHBS and need a supply of da strong bomb for multiple jobs round the brewery. With my pure Sodium Percarbonate, Trisodium Phosphate and Starsan no bug shall live


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## DU99 (20/7/14)

What's your mixing rate for using as a line cleaner


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## Bribie G (20/7/14)

Quarter cup to 5 litres, as suggested by Challenge Chemicals who sell it as a line cleaner. I also gave my bronco tap a fright with it .


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## Batz (20/7/14)

What's it worth Bribie?


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## major_mitt (20/7/14)

I use a version of TSP powder that I have found from a local commercial cleaning product supplier.

I use it for all of my cleaning purposed and can say that it is far superior to PBW in value and as good as a cleaner.

You can even get a chlorinated form that works as a sanitizer also (rinse required). I have not personally had any issues with stainless steel corrosion.

I'm not sure why TSP is not more widely used? It seems like the perfect homebrew cleaning product


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## Bribie G (20/7/14)

$15 for the kilo tub. I bought it to pre wash my SS BrewBucket.

Back in the 1970s when I ran a LHBS we used to sell TSP as a popular general cleaner, especially for stripping everything off glassware.

Two reasons it's not widely known nowadays: detergents don't contain phosphates any more, so far less is manufactured, plus Workplace Health and Nannying probably doesn't like it as it's an alkaline chemical and they would have to write a seven day course for you to follow before you are allowed to use it. :huh:

Edit: after filling the pipes for an hour, when I flushed them the first couple of seconds was the colour of tea with heaps of brown flakes, excellent stuff.


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## DU99 (20/7/14)

i have got a dust mask if i need it and some throw away gloves


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## major_mitt (20/7/14)

I think TSP needs to be more widely pushed as a good all round alternative to PBW.

Never mind the algal blooms :lol:


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## Bribie G (20/7/14)

No need for the mask, it just looks like sugar. Rubber gloves are a good idea. I expect in the old days millions of housewives (as they were called then and also today by Tones) would have been exposed to the stuff every wash day. Probably cured PMT.


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## Batz (20/7/14)

major_mitt said:


> I think TSP needs to be more widely pushed as a good all round alternative to PBW.
> 
> Never mind the algal blooms :lol:


Well it's half the price, and I would mix it with 1 part - 2 parts of Sodium Percarbonate. Cheap as chips PBW (of which I'm almost out of).


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## jonnir (20/7/14)

Good to know about this, so if you use this to clean your lines and fermenter. What do you use percarbonate to clean?


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## Bribie G (20/7/14)

I use perc for organic stuff like trub rings, BIAB bags etc. where the perc does more or less what Napisan does to shitty nappies.

The TSP seems to work in addition to this for baked on crap like beer stone, tannins and grease. I hadn't thought of a combination as suggested by Batz, wondering if there would be a chemical reaction between the perc and the TSP.

One way to find out, I'll try it with my next fermenter B)

I'm still using Bunnings fermenters until my BrewBucket catches up.


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## Hippy (20/7/14)

I've just noticed on the Bunnings website that they also sell that stuff in 2.2kg containers for just under $25. Even better value if your local green shed stocks that size . LINK


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## Batz (20/7/14)

Hippy said:


> I've just noticed on the Bunnings website that they also sell that stuff in 2.2kg containers for just under $25. Even better value if your local green shed stocks that size . LINK


Spotted that


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## Bribie G (20/7/14)

Yes, the big size was there when I shopped. I only bought the kilo because, at the time, I thought how much TSP does one man need in a lifetime. Bad move :lol:


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## Batz (20/7/14)

Bribie G said:


> Yes, the big size was there when I shopped. I only bought the kilo because, at the time, I thought how much TSP does one man need in a lifetime. Bad move :lol:


Your side of the border, most people would steal it anyway. That or use it in their meth. lab.

Batz


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## Bribie G (20/7/14)

reported




B)


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## DU99 (20/7/14)

have to check and see who else sells it..and see where it's actualy made


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## Online Brewing Supplies (22/7/14)

DU99 said:


> have to check and see who else sells it..and see where it's actualy made


I sell it here and its made in China .
Nev


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## black_labb (22/7/14)

It's sold at some brewshops under different names (often the chlorinated trisodium phosphate). PSR is one of the names used which is short for the technical term "Pink Stain Remover".


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## mckenry (22/7/14)

Online Brewing Supplies said:


> I sell it here and its made in China .
> Nev


$11/kg at a LHBS or $15/kg @ Bunnings !
Nice on Nev. Pity postage from WA is a killer.


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## sponge (22/7/14)

Bribie G said:


> The TSP seems to work in addition to this for baked on crap like beer stone, tannins and grease. I hadn't thought of a combination as suggested by Batz, wondering if there would be a chemical reaction between the perc and the TSP.
> 
> One way to find out, I'll try it with my next fermenter B)


Did you get around to trying the combination for cleaning BG?


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## Batz (4/8/14)

What section is this stuff found?

Batz


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## fraser_john (4/8/14)

This stuff sounds great, always nice to have a combination of cleaners available and cycle through them so bugs don't get over familiar with any single type. Off to Bunnings (again).


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## Batz (4/8/14)

OK I found it in the painting section, I bought the 2.2kg so I hope it's good stuff. My PBW is almost gone.


http://www.tricleanium.com.au/

Batz


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## dicko (5/8/14)

I believe this is the stuff to mix with sodium percarbonate to make PBW

Sodium Metasilicate Pentahydrate

2 parts Sodium Percarbonate to 1 part of the above.

Let me know how your mix works Batz, I will give it a try if it goes OK.

Thanks for the tip BribieG


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## doon (5/8/14)

Hey bribie are you just mixing this in a corny then running it through your lines?


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## Bribie G (5/8/14)

Yes, mix it up warm. I haven't tried mixing it with perc yet, was unsure what would happen if I mixed TSP with a strong oxidising agent. Not ready for a guide dog yet.


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## doon (5/8/14)

Bloody hell the was a fair amount of crap coming out just putting it in lines!


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## sponge (5/8/14)

So a big thumbs up doon?


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## doon (5/8/14)

Will post again once I flush them clean but seems pretty damn good so far!


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## doon (5/8/14)

Seems the goods ran a fair whack of water through till bits stopped coming out then sanitised lines.

Would this be able to be used like PBW as a hot soak for a braumeister?


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## Batz (5/8/14)

Well that's what I want, it does advise against long exposure to brass. I'm not sure if a few hours is long exposure? I tried to email them regards the BM pump body's but the email seems to be out of date.

Batz


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## doon (5/8/14)

I only use PBW for around an hour or so and brass in pump seems fine in mine.


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## 431neb (5/8/14)

Bribie G said:


> I recently bought a big tub of Tricleanium from Bunnings, it's pure TSP and I see that this alkaline chemical is good for cleaning beer lines - leave one hour then flush with clean water. I've also been using TSP for renovating beer glasses... brings them up like new, and for washing out fermenters.
> 
> I've used it for my beer lines today and they came up really well. I followed the rinse with a Starsan solution that will stay in the lines till I use them again.
> 
> ...



Bribie, I've always avoided running Strasan though my taps as I'm afraid that the extreme pH might damage metal components. I stick to Sodium Perc' for that reason. Can anyone advise on the liklihood of damage to taps if Starsan is left in the taps for a long time? I would like the peace of mind from an infection point of view if damage is unlikely.

When I say "long time" I mean weeks and months not a few days. I have 5 taps and they are only rarely all running at once.

Thanks in advance.


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## Batz (5/8/14)

doon said:


> I only use PBW for around an hour or so and brass in pump seems fine in mine.


I leave PBW to work overnight, rinse in the morning. It does work a treat but a cheaper alternative would also be welcome.
I see the bulk buy price has gone up up a heap.

Nov. 2010 @ one of our sponsors 50lb (22.7kg) pail for $258
Now 2014 @ one of our sponsors 50lb (22.7kg) pail for $369

It's gone up over $100.00 per 50lb, time to make it myself. 

Batz


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## dicko (6/8/14)

Batz said:


> I leave PBW to work overnight, rinse in the morning. It does work a treat but a cheaper alternative would also be welcome.
> I see the bulk buy price has gone up up a heap.
> 
> Nov. 2010 @ one of our sponsors 50lb (22.7kg) pail for $258
> ...


When some guys bought the ingredients from a supplier ( 2x 25 kg of Sodium Perc and 1 x 25 kg of Sodium Metasilicate) it cost around $200 for the three bags which made 75 kg of PBW.
I got 5 kg in a BB about a year ago and I have used around half of it.
I am not game to buy the bags and mix it myself for fear of me dying of old age before I used it all. 

If Bribies gear works then that will be the go for me.


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## mckenry (19/8/14)

Just doing a bit of research about cleaning my lines with TSP and remembered this thread.
Theres a warning on the tub to wipe off from brass and aluminium immediately. I dont think I can use it as a line cleaner as my perlick taps are chromed brass.
BribieG - What taps do you have?
Bugger. Wouldnt want to damage this baby


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## Bribie G (19/8/14)

Being chromed I don't think there would be a problem. My font taps have brassy bits inside and the TSP didn't affect them. Possibly if you have shiny brass it might take a bit of the shine off?


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## Batz (19/8/14)

It actually states "Avoid prolonged exposure to aluminium and brass" I don't know how long prolonged is though.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (19/8/14)

I think the problem exists when the water part evaporates and the salts attack the material, IE it concentrates.
You find the same with Sodium percarbonate on flasks, it starts to film up on the glass and is hard to remove if at all.
Nev


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## HBHB (19/8/14)

Needs super hot water Nev. Can be a bitch to get off where you can't reach.


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## mckenry (19/8/14)

Batz said:


> It actually states "Avoid prolonged exposure to aluminium and brass" I don't know how long prolonged is though.


Not mine Batz. On the yellow tub it says immediately for brass and aluminium, which is why I'm hesitant to use it at all the inside of my taps are brass.


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## Blind Dog (19/8/14)

Bribie G said:


> No need for the mask, it just looks like sugar. Rubber gloves are a good idea. I expect in the old days millions of housewives (as they were called then and also today by Tones) would have been exposed to the stuff every wash day. Probably cured PMT.


WTF. Cure for PMT and you post it in a thread for beer line cleaning? What were you thinking? This news needs to be promulgated globally. Do you know the dosage I need to give SWMBO? Or do I take it? Cos it's me that suffers PMT, she just has it; it's different


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## Batz (20/8/14)

mckenry said:


> Not mine Batz. On the yellow tub it says immediately for brass and aluminium, which is why I'm hesitant to use it at all the inside of my taps are brass.


OK I'll check my label again, I read it on their site here

http://www.tricleanium.com.au/

I did try to email them but it seems the email is not current anymore.

Batz


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## mckenry (20/8/14)

Batz said:


> OK I'll check my label again, I read it on their site here
> 
> http://www.tricleanium.com.au/
> 
> ...


Thanks for that. Interesting the website states 'prolonged' yet the tub itself says 'immediately'.
Hearing others state how well it cleaned the inside of their lines, with heaps of gunk coming out after a half hour soak, I am keen to give it a go. That means however that the solution has to pass through my chrome plated brass taps. If a half hour is not 'prolonged' and a fresh water rinse will suffice post clean, then I'll give it a go.
If however, 'immediately' means that a half hour contact with the brass is going to cause problems, even with fresh water rinsing, then I'll have to clean with something else.


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## Batz (20/8/14)

What about mixing some up and dropping a brass fitting in for a couple of hours, just to see what happens? If I remember I'll do it on the weekend.

Batz


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## mckenry (20/8/14)

Batz said:


> What about mixing some up and dropping a brass fitting in for a couple of hours, just to see what happens? If I remember I'll do it on the weekend.
> 
> Batz


Good idea. I will too. Post back.


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## DJ_L3ThAL (21/6/16)

How did you guys go checking the Brass fitting in the solution, has it disappeared by now?


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## Batz (21/6/16)

I mixed a strong solution and let a brass fitting in there for over a week. Seems no problem at all, the fitting did not even discolor.


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## DJ_L3ThAL (21/6/16)

Cool. What are people mixing this at. The mixing rate range quoted on the container allows too much interpretation for my small mind.

Say for cleaning factory oil out of new butterfly valves, strongest ideal solution is how many grams per litre?


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## DJ_L3ThAL (21/6/16)

Looks like the dilution rates quoted are:

General cleaning 1 lid per 9 Litres hot water (bucket defined in video from website).
Heavy Duty cleaning 2 lids per 9 Litres hot water.

I weighed it up for those mixing up smaller volume solutions:

Level lid full (2kg container lid) = 60 grams
1 tablespoon = 18 grams
1 teaspoon = 5 grams

*General cleaning*
6.7 grams per Litre,
or
1 heaped teaspoon in 1 Litre.

*Heavy Duty cleaning*
13.3 grams per Litre,
or
1 tablespoon mixed in 1.5 Litres.

Hope that helps someone


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## Batz (27/9/17)

I'm still using this 1-3 mix with 100% sodium percarbonate. I find it makes a great brewery cleaner, beer lines, kegs, glasses, anything and brings the B.M. up like new.
I believe it works heaps better than PBW.

Give it a try.

Batz


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