# Help with 'hobo cider' recipe



## TheBlackAdder (30/6/14)

Hi guys,

To keep the missus happy and accepting of the hobby I have made one apple cider from the brewcraft strongbow clone kit. This turned out OK but nothing special. I have been doing some reading around here and for my next attempt am keen to try the 'hobo cider' method using store bought juice.

I am also toying with the idea of adding some mandarin to the secondary as I tried some apple mardarin cider (kirin) recently and liked the addition (as did the misses). 

So, my thoughts on the recipe are (and this is where I need help):

~15L Apple Juice (no preservatives) - any brand recommendations? 
~3L Apple + Pear Juice - for some sweetness as recommended in other threads
Safale S04
Yeast nutrient
Optional 500g lactose (this was in the strongbow recipe to retain sweetness - is it needed?)
Optional 1kg brew booster 2 (this was in the strongbow recipe to improve mouthfeel and head - is it needed?)
Add ~500g mardarin to secondary
For fruit additions, ive seen the process as freeze to breakdown then sterilise in 80C water for 2 mins then add to fermenter?

From what Ive read about cooking apples vs. juice apples, would it be beneficial to get some granny smiths and juice them to add to the primary? if so what would be the best way to go about this?

So is there anything im missing? Sorry that theres lots of questions, but I'm pretty new 

Cheers


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## Bribie G (30/6/14)

I wouldn't use the brew booster as cider doesn't need a head. I'd just put in a kilo of dex if you want it hobo strength. Remember that cider ferments out to zero so an Original Gravity that would make a full strength beer will make you a rocket fuel cider. My last one was about 8%.

Aldi apple juice is ok, a dollar a litre. Using whole fruits might be a bit ambitious on your first go.

Also no need for secondary, you will end up with a fairly thin yeast sediment at the bottom so when fermentation is finished the brew should be quite clear. I even pour a fresh lot of juice and dex straight onto the yeast and go again, something I wouldn't do with beer.

Also I wouldn't use lactose, doesn't do anything much and if you want a sweeter drink, just add some apple juice in the glass.

Happy brewing.


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## TheBlackAdder (30/6/14)

Thanks,

I'm not chasing rocket fuel so no need for the extra dex then 

Guess I will forego the lactose and brew booster as well. I take it the pear juice gives some residual sweetness anyway?

My thoughts re the secondary were twofold:

The kit and kilo strogbow i did ended up very cloudy and I wanted to clear that up some - although this may have been my fault for not mixing the concentrate well enough, so might not be so applicable
Ive read that this method is meant to improve a lot with ageing. I though the secondary would be a good way to do this
That said, if my samples come out really clear I guess ill skip that

Do I need to be mucking around with tannis, citric acid etc. or is that another case of too much too soon?


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (30/6/14)

I have just made 66L this arvo. Theres enough there for a hobo to bathe in.........


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## beercus (30/6/14)

Do the 2x tea bag in about 200ml of boiling water for the tannins,

Beercus


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## TheBlackAdder (30/6/14)

beercus said:


> Do the 2x tea bag in about 200ml of boiling water for the tannins,
> 
> Beercus


Plain black tea?


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## MetalDan (2/7/14)

Yep just your plain black tea


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## beercus (2/7/14)

As strong as you have....
Cover and let it sit....
Beercus


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## indica86 (2/7/14)

Why S04?
Use a wine or cider yeast.
Blackrock do a very good kit, concentrated apple juice is all it is.
Wife is drinking one with 1kg raspberries and one with a bag of apples. Both had 1kg sugar added.
Both are very nice.
No lactose, no brew booster no secondary.
Both tasty and crystal clear.


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## lael (3/7/14)

indica86 said:


> Why S04?
> Use a wine or cider yeast.
> Blackrock do a very good kit, concentrated apple juice is all it is.
> Wife is drinking one with 1kg raspberries and one with a bag of apples. Both had 1kg sugar added.
> ...


Is that in a keg?


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## indica86 (3/7/14)

Nope, bottled. Not sweet but they both don't taste overly dry.


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## lael (3/7/14)

Definitely do the tea. It rounds out the appley flavour significantly. I'm tempted to find some malic acid for my next one to add as well as the tannins from the tea. 

Also definitely do the yeast nutrient. I did a tsp at the start and then another half way through the batch last time around. It was a much cleaner ferment and threw less sulphur smells. Boiled in a 1/4 cup of water for 5-10mins (be careful not to boil off all the water) and then pitched into the fermenter hot (couldn't be bothered waiting for it to cool and it disperses and cools in there). 

When it is done (probably 1.000), cols crash and condition for 4weeks min. Then bottle ( unless you keg). I back sweeten with a third apple juice and pastuerise when SG is 1.011/12. Only use coopers or champagne bottles for that if you want to do it and be careful!

Last batch I did 5 tea bags in 500ml and did that twice and threw it into 25L of cider and then added 1/3rd fresh juice in priming. Worked brilliantly. I used a yeast called Conan, which did a cracking job. I've got some cr71b and some icv ok to try for next batch. Cr71b has very high recommendations as keeping the fruit/appley taste.


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## lael (3/7/14)

indica86 said:


> Nope, bottled. Not sweet but they both don't taste overly dry.


Sounds good!


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## lael (3/7/14)

Oh, just a warning - DON'T prime with that much juice (1/3rd) if you aren't going to pasteurise. It WILL result in bottle bombs! ( and the yeast will ferment all the way down to 1.000 again and I'm not sure whether it will retain more apple flavour or not.) Definitely the safer and easier way is sweetening in the glass.


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## Not For Horses (3/7/14)

indica86 said:


> Why S04?


Why not?

I regularly use S04 in my cider. It works really well and retains good fruit flavour.
Last year's batch was well received by a couple of local cider/wine makers.
If that is what you have, use it.


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## TheBlackAdder (3/7/14)

Alright, lots of good advice in this thread

@indica86 - I've used the blackrock kit once before and found that the concentrate didnt disolve well and got syrup in the bottom of bottles so it didnt end up that appley - did you find this at all using concentrate?

I might try to get something down this weekend before I go away. I have a stout on at the moment which should be done, but the SG is concerningly high 1.033 :S so either Ive done the reading wrong or its stalled...put it on the heat pad today for a d-rest so hopefully that sorts it out

Ill definately keep this thread updated with what I end up doing


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## indica86 (3/7/14)

Not For Horses said:


> Why not?
> 
> I regularly use S04 in my cider. It works really well and retains good fruit flavour.
> Last year's batch was well received by a couple of local cider/wine makers.
> If that is what you have, use it.


I was wondering was all.



TheBlackAdder said:


> @indica86 - I've used the blackrock kit once before and found that the concentrate didnt disolve well and got syrup in the bottom of bottles so it didnt end up that appley - did you find this at all using concentrate?


Never had an issue and have used it many times.


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## TheBlackAdder (3/7/14)

With the S04, I've heard it works well and happened to have some on hand
With the blackrock, I guess that I just didnt mix it well enough :unsure:



I last question before I put it down: if I'm using apple juice, do I need to add extra brewing sugar, or will the sugar from the juice be plenty?

Starting to get excited for this batch although Im not looking forward to explaining to the check out chick why I'm buying 20L of apple juice  

I cant even imagine @_WALLACE_ buying 60L! Must of cleaned out the whole store!


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## Not For Horses (3/7/14)

All my ciders are just 100% fresh pressed juice. No tea, no sugar, no lactose.


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## Mutaneer (3/7/14)

I stuffed about with the tea, a few litres of pear juice, etc, etc. it added hardly anything to the flavour, just smelt a little like pears
bottling with brown sugar did make some difference to the taste and a little extra sweetness, but it stopped it from clearing in the bottle, after 6-weeks upright it was still fully cloudy.

best combo so far is the simplest,
100% fresh juice from the orchard
71B yeast,
plain white caster sugar for priming at 10g/l
6 weeks in the bottle


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## pist (3/7/14)

I just put together the following for the mrs this arvo:

Brigalow Cider kit (was given this, so used it anyway)
18L preservative free apple juice (just juice)
2KG frozen mixed berries
Campden tabs - to kill off wild yeasts/bacteria present in the berries (converts to sulphur dioxide when added to water/wort/must - commonly used in wineries to remove these after pressing grapes). All the research I have done has pointed to leaving the whole lot to sit for 24hrs before pitching yeast to let the tabs work and also break down enough as to not kill the yeast when pitched, so will pitch a mangrove jacks cider yeast starter tomorrow afternoon.


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## Mutaneer (4/7/14)

I always try and avoid any extra SO2 in my brews, my wife is allergic to it.
If you have your juices chilled initially then brought up to room temp while your yeast is kicking off, and your yeast is strong when it goes in, it'll over-power any wild nasties anyway
The wild yeasts don't like high alcohol content either


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## TheBlackAdder (12/8/14)

Ok update for this has been a long time coming:

15L of Berri Apple Juice sourced at $1 per litre (reject shop)
4.8L of Golden Circle Apple and Pear Juice at just over $1 per litre (in a weird 2.4L bottle - ripping me off a whole 0.1L)
2 tea bags in about ~200ml water
1 tblspn yeast nutrients in ~150ml boiled water
Safale S04

Hopefully see some activity tonight.

The one weird thing is the SG, which I measured as 1.05 @ ~17C
This seems way too high - I dont know if its my hydrometer, but I checked that in water and it was giving 1.00

But it smells nice and looks good so fingers crossed


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## mattyg8 (13/8/14)

could it have been 1.050 which sounds about right


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## TheBlackAdder (13/8/14)

Yep its 1.050, which from my very limited experience seemed a bit high.
But I guess theres a lot of sugar in all that juice!

Fermentation is happening so I'm happy regardless - although very small krausen on it

Only problem is trying to keep temperature nice and stable


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## Forever Wort (13/8/14)

I also put down a little hobo cider the other night, based on what I had around the house. It is my first. Depending on how it tastes I will adjust the recipe and do a bigger batch. I am aiming for sweet as it is for a lady that way inclined.

9.6 litres Berri Apple & Pear Juice
160g Rice Malt
1/4 tsp Sodium Saccharin
Coopers beer kit yeast


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## TheBlackAdder (13/8/14)

Cool. Hope it comes out great.

The best thing about these recipes is that they are stupid-simple. Cant really picture anything going wrong


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## Forever Wort (13/8/14)

It has an interesting smell as it ferments. Been a couple of days and still kinda smells like juice.


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## AntonW (13/8/14)

My secret ingredient (actually the whole recipe) is:

--> Woolies' apple and cranberry juice. It comes in 4 litre bottles at less than $4 each. Any cheap apple juice is good though.
--> A bit of sugar dissolved in water.
--> US-04 or US-05 or cider yeast or whatever.

It takes a little while to ferment out and as people have mentioned, it's as dry as can be, quite strong, cloudy and delicious. I'm sure you could crash chill it but hey, the person who taught me how to make it had the singular objective of making his cider as different as possible from the commercial lolly water, and I respect that.

I'll have to give the tea a try. That sounds good.

Cider is super simple and delicious, but given the choice I'll almost always choose beer.


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## AntonW (13/8/14)

And I don't worry about fermentation temps the way that I do for beer.


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## Nicko_Cairns (14/8/14)

My favourite is just Berri Apple and Blackcurrant Juice, a kg of dex and the cheapest yeast I can find, used a champagne yeast last time as I don't mind the cider being dry and really alcoholic. My local hardware store sells some cheap wine and champagne yeasts, can't remember the brand but I use that. I often just brew small batches in a couple Demi-johns, takes up one shelf in the beer fridge and I can brew beer at the same time, then I can brew two different flavours, sometimes I fill a FV though, so probably 22L or so of cider goodness.

Next time though I'll back sweeten in a keg with some cordial or juice concentrate, haven't tried that yet but read some positive posts about it.

I wait until Coles or whoever have a big juice sale and I smash them, I get some strange looks at the checkout with ten or more bottles of juice, I used to say "I brew cider from it", now I just say if asked "I really like juice". The checkout people just stare at me and don't know what to say lol. I'm probably "the juice guy". Good point about the $2 shop and home brand juice, will check them both out.


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## Nicko_Cairns (14/8/14)

Here's a pretty good link to sweetening in the keg, the caramel suggestion looks interesting but really i'll probably use a concentrate and i'll post an update about how it goes, my brew fridge will be empty in seven days time, so i'll throw some cider on then, it's currently full of pacific ale cubes.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/back-sweetening-questions-cider-keggers-166209/


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## TheBlackAdder (15/8/14)

Caramel sounds interesting - if you try it, let us know how it goes. Ild be interested in how it affects the taste, and how it goes compared to a more neutral sweetener like lactose.

A friend asked an interesting question on what the ABV of this would be.

My guess would be that with an original SG of 1.050 that it will come out at aroung 5.5 to 6.5%

Is that in the right ballpark?


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## AntonW (18/8/14)

easy home pasteurisation: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/easy-stove-top-pasteurizing-pics-193295/index3.html


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## Beerisbest (8/9/14)

Hey guys, first post here

I've just put on a 5 liter scrumpy brew

OG is at 1070 with 1kilo of dextrose, so I'm expecting a high alcohol content end product. I'm not using a champagne yeast but a cider yeast as recommended by my brew store, will the yeast be able to eat all the sugars without becoming dormant?


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## TheBlackAdder (11/9/14)

Not sure on what a 5 litre scrumpy brew is, but it would really depend on yeast health and how you pitched it
1.070 isnt super high for an OG so I expect that it will be OK, but it might have some trouble getting right down near 1.000

My batch is finished now and I'm waiting to try the first bottle. From tasting on bottling day its a pretty nice drop from a simple method.
Really nice flavour, maybe a touch on the dry side but carbing up will help with that perception


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## TimT (11/9/14)

Scrumpy is cider from apples, traditionally windfall apples. I wouldn't bother adding dextrose myself. The flavour you'll get from the apple juice alone should be far superior.


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## TheBlackAdder (25/9/14)

Had my first bottle of this the other night and its got a good apple flavour and some residual sweetness from the pear juice - unfortunately it was dead flat so hoping it carbs up in a week or so, but its a good recipe that I will be doing again


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