# Partigyle Brewing



## Swinging Beef (11/6/10)

After being all inspired from listening to some recent Jamil shows on HBN, I decided to give partigyle brewing another bash.

Last night we used a Fullers Golden Pride barley wine recipe and managed to get pretty damn close to target gravities.
Batch one came in at 1080 with about 16 litres
Batch two came in at 1040 (before sugar additions) at about 14 litres.

Obviously, I wont know how well this all went until Im sitting down actually drinking a pint of the beer, but I was pretty happy with the process and how it all came out.

The 1st runnings were collected into my regular 52litre kettle that I use for most brews, and the 2nd runnings were collected into a 19litre boiler I used to use for extract brewing. Hops and shit were added as usual.

I banked on 65% efficiency for the barley wine and 35% efficiency on the 2nd runnnings. It came damn close.


----------



## Screwtop (11/6/10)

Swinging Beef said:


> After being all inspired from listening to some recent Jamil shows on HBN, I decided to give partigyle brewing another bash.
> 
> Last night we used a Fullers Golden Pride barley wine recipe and managed to get pretty damn close to target gravities.
> Batch one came in at 1080 with about 16 litres
> ...




Same here, the Fullers ESB/London Pride CYBI shows were very inspiring. Thought I would like to have a go at making a batch of each. Looked up some methods of calculating 50/50 and 70/30 batches using Tom-O's Parti-Gyle Cipherin' Sheet. Seems Fullers make three batches then blend to end up with the two beers, which all seemed a bit difficult and would require making quite a few batches to hit the numbers. Have done a kind of Partigyle before, simply using first runnings at 2.5L Kg then watering down to the target OG and for the second runnings sparging down to required gravity for the small beer, colour was a problem using this method. Does seem an attractive alternative for any brewer who normally makes double batches, two different beers from one brewday! Will have to spend some time working on this project to get things sorted in my head then might give it a go aiming to blend for an ESB and London Pride clone from the one batch.

Screwy


----------



## fraser_john (11/6/10)

Screwtop said:


> ...snip... using Tom-O's Parti-Gyle Cipherin' Sheet.....snip
> 
> Screwy



For those interested (including myself).... linky


----------



## Swinging Beef (11/6/10)

That stuff is all very interesting and useful

In hindsight (they eyeball in your butt is always 20/20), I think I may try this again, but next time make an entire 10kg grain bill. Which is as large as my mash tun can hold, and try to get two 20 litre batches of different beers out of the system.

I forsee a future of mixed batches: Russian Imperial Stout and Dry Stout, Doppelbock and Pilsener, Trippel and Eingel, Robust Porter and Brown.


----------



## O'Henry (11/6/10)

Swinging Beef said:


> I forsee a future of mixed batches: Russian Imperial Stout and Dry Stout, Doppelbock and Pilsener, Trippel and Eingel, Robust Porter and Brown.


All with the house twang!


----------



## boobiedazzler (11/6/10)

What is the attraction towards making beer in this style? Is it so you can get two different half-batches out of one brewday, one strong and one standard ABV, which you can hop each one as you please? Based on Swinging Beef's outcome, would he have gotten roughly 30 litres of 1060 wort out of his mash if done by conventional means?


----------



## Swinging Beef (11/6/10)

HA! Nah, man.. house twang is under control.
I have retained one fermenter, and two cubes that I know are brett/lacto affected for that distinctive house character.
All other beers are coming out as clean as a whistle.


----------



## benno1973 (11/6/10)

While I know that people do partigyle and it works and all, I've always wondered how you'd handle the body and attenuation? You'd want to mash a barleywine low to fully attenuate, but a mild (or any lower gravity beer) high to increase ther body. With partigyle, do you just mash somewhere in the middle?


----------



## brettprevans (11/6/10)

I'll do some cross referencing. Big V Brewday - barleywine and parigyle link



Kaiser Soze said:


> While I know that people do partigyle and it works and all, I've always wondered how you'd handle the body and attenuation? You'd want to mash a barleywine low to fully attenuate, but a mild (or any lower gravity beer) high to increase ther body. With partigyle, do you just mash somewhere in the middle?


actually i would have said you want to mash a barleywine higher, as you need the body and dextrines. use a big yeast to get your attenuation. you need a lot of malt to stand up to all those hops. we mashed at 67.

as for mashtemp of partigyle.. well your not supposed to be mashing at all. its just the last runnings of the mash. now in the big v brewday we 'remashed' with some added spec grains just to top the taste and bidy up a bit. but in the end it kind of depends on what sort of partigyle you want. if you want a fuller bodies partigyle then you'd remash a little higher for some body. if a light beer then lower. all IMO of course.


----------



## benno1973 (11/6/10)

Sorry, I used the term partigyle to refer to both the big and small beer, but maybe partigyle refers to the small beer only?

I'm not sure about the barley wine - I would have expected lower mash temps, as even with high attenuation (low temps AND a good yeast) you'd end up with some serious dextrines and body, but you'd avoid it being overly sweet. But I'm still waiting for my first barley wine to ferment out, so I definitely have no basis to back that up!


----------



## Swinging Beef (11/6/10)

It really depends on what you want to achieve.
I mashed at 64deg, on the basis of the Jamil Show discussion.
Highly attenuative wort in the 1080 beer, and a deliberately dry english bitter on the tail end.
The show referred to a 'tanniny dryness' in the Fullers London Pride, so Im keen to taste this and discuss the results.


----------



## brettprevans (11/6/10)

Kaiser Soze said:


> Sorry, I used the term partigyle to refer to both the big and small beer, but maybe partigyle refers to the small beer only?



Is kind of the oevrall method, but referes to the making of a small or light beer.

Crap definition off the web - One technique that has almost disappeared from modern practice is parti-gyle brewing. This technique involved drawing off the first part of the mash and using it to make strong ale or barley wine, then remashing the grain and drawing off the second runnings for a more ordinary, weak, and watery concoction called small beer, the light beer of its day.



Kaiser Soze said:


> I'm not sure about the barley wine - I would have expected lower mash temps, as even with high attenuation (low temps AND a good yeast) you'd end up with some serious dextrines and body, but you'd avoid it being overly sweet. But I'm still waiting for my first barley wine to ferment out, so I definitely have no basis to back that up!


horses for courses? not sure. Id have to do some more looking at barleywine. The 3 recipes ive seen (thats incl the ones we brewed) were all mashed around 65-68C.
regardding sweetness. i think our final theorectical IBU was around 120. so she aint gonna be sweet


----------



## Wolfy (11/6/10)

I found Randy Mosher's article interesting and the linked tables useful for planning partigyle brewing: http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backi...2.2/mosher.html


----------



## crozdog (12/6/10)

I've done numerous partigyles with the ISB crew. They are great for getting 2 different brews from the 1 grain bill.

Kaiser - AFAIK, the term partigyle refers to the overall process whiles a gyle is a runnings ie you make a partigyle which is made up of 2 or more gyles. As to body, I mash at whatever temp I need to the body I want in the 1st gyle & take what i have for the 2nd.

I work on a 60:40 split for the extract when calculating recipes. I work out a grainbill for the big beer then tell myself that that is 60% of the total. Copy the grains into the small beer & adjust the amount to be 2/3 of the big beer.

As far as changing the character of the 2nd beer, like CM2 says, add specialty grain. This can either be added to the tun or as we did recently, steeped in a bucket then added to the tun.

On a side note, I've read that some scotch makers use the 3rd or 4th gyle as the strike water for their next batch, thereby improving their efficiency by a few %.


----------



## brettprevans (12/6/10)

crozdog said:


> On a side note, I've read that some scotch makers use the 3rd or 4th gyle as the strike water for their next batch, thereby improving their efficiency by a few %.


Tight arse guide to brewing. Lol. It's actually not a bad idea at all. Had some merit.


----------



## benno1973 (12/6/10)

crozdog said:


> On a side note, I've read that some scotch makers use the 3rd or 4th gyle as the strike water for their next batch, thereby improving their efficiency by a few %.



Randy Mosher talks about something similar in Radical Brewing where a wort is used as strike water for a second brew. Could be applied partigyle style I guess, by running the first gyle off, and using the second gyle to mash in different grains, thereby getting a big beer and a medium beer. 

Thanks for the info on mash temps. As I said, I know people do it and get good results, I just didn't know how. Seems that if you want to mash the grains on the low side, you either:
1. Add more spec malt to the second gyle, changing it slightly. I guess you could add a bunch of carapils or crystal to increase the body/flavour/mouthfeel; or
2. Expect a drier second beer.


----------



## davewaldo (12/6/10)

I've been thinking lately about taking 5L of my first runnings (double batch) and using this as a small batch barley wine. 

So its a bit like a partygyle but not making two equal size batches. My original thinking was that this would help to hone a good recipe, but the more I think about it the more I think I could do this with most beers. A small batch of very high gravity beer with every normal double batch. I'm guessing I could just add a couple of kilos of grain to the bill, and it wouldn't change the main beer all that much. 

What do we think? 

Dave.


----------



## brettprevans (12/6/10)

Kaiser Soze said:


> Randy Mosher talks about something similar in Radical Brewing where a wort is used as strike water for a second brew. Could be applied partigyle style I guess, by running the first gyle off, and using the second gyle to mash in different grains, thereby getting a big beer and a medium beer.
> 
> Thanks for the info on mash temps. As I said, I know people do it and get good results, I just didn't know how. Seems that if you want to mash the grains on the low side, you either:
> 1. Add more spec malt to the second gyle, changing it slightly. I guess you could add a bunch of carapils or crystal to increase the body/flavour/mouthfeel; or
> 2. Expect a drier second beer.


From memory mosher is talking about using 1st and 2nd running of a big beer as strike water to make a massive beer


----------



## crozdog (12/6/10)

davewaldo said:


> I've been thinking lately about taking 5L of my first runnings (double batch) and using this as a small batch barley wine.
> 
> So its a bit like a partygyle but not making two equal size batches. My original thinking was that this would help to hone a good recipe, but the more I think about it the more I think I could do this with most beers. A small batch of very high gravity beer with every normal double batch. I'm guessing I could just add a couple of kilos of grain to the bill, and it wouldn't change the main beer all that much.
> 
> ...


it'd work- remember there are no rules only guidelines ;-)

give it a try & report back


----------



## Yob (19/8/12)

What an awesome brewday it was yesterday!! Partigyle rocks!! must remember to start drinking a bit later  

First Run ended in a cube of DIPA @ 23lt of 1075 (had a lid seal malfunction and lost a liter or so of it  )

Second Run ended in about 15lt of 1045 Wort which I blended with last weeks mild for SWMBO (my first blend as well)

I didn't even set out to do a partigyle, it just occurred to me when I got to my volume in the kettle that there was still quite a bit of sugars left in the grains bed so filled the MT up again and started to recirc while I was boiling the first..





Recircing while the boil from first runnings was on




Colour from the second runnings was pretty good I thought (I did add a teeny bit of crystal, carapils and 50g of choc malt to second batch)




My Chiller worked pretty well but was a little wasteful..

1 day, 2 brews, 1 lot of grain, 2 boils... love it!!

:icon_drunk:


----------



## Yob (7/9/12)

citymorgue2 said:


> From memory mosher is talking about using 1st and 2nd running of a big beer as strike water to make a massive beer



Ive recently been thinking alot about this CM.. was actually just discussing it with a workmate... have you tried this process?


----------



## Yob (18/9/12)

PARTIGYLE PODCAST

Stumbled over this following one of Manticles links on another topic.

:icon_cheers: 

(Fast Forward to 11 min for begining of PG info)


----------



## Malted (18/9/12)

iamozziyob said:


> Ive recently been thinking alot about this CM.. was actually just discussing it with a workmate... have you tried this process?




I think you guys are moving away from the concept of Partigyle and more towards Reiterated Mashing. There is a reasonable discussion of the latter concept here: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=19137


----------



## Yob (18/9/12)

Malted said:


> I think you guys are moving away from the concept of Partigyle and more towards Reiterated Mashing.



interesting read and food for thought. 

:icon_cheers: for the link Malted.


----------



## Yob (10/9/13)

just thought Id have a look in Brew Strong and there is a PARTIGYLE session, gunna listen to it this morning.


----------



## kevo (10/9/13)

There's a good Brewing TV episode too which features partigyle brewing.

Big Beer Brewing the episode is called - not so much of the nuts and bolts of planning grist etc, but a good episode anyway for the other factors which need to be sorted for a big & small beer...



Cool if you're a Star Wars fan too.


----------



## Yob (10/9/13)

There was some good points on water and sparging in the BS podcast.. Much faff and blah but there were some points I'd not considered before.


----------



## Yob (6/10/13)

Looks like I will only get 1 brewday this month im going to do a Partigyle monster day.

Yobs "October" Beer

Mash One.

2kg Pale
2kg Munich I
2kg Wheat
.25 Acidulated

Stepped 63/40 72/20 + 78/15

The total runnings from this will form the strike liquor for the second infusion. (35lt)

6kg Pale
3kg Munich
3kg Wheat
1kg Victory
1kg Rye
.5 Acidulated

90-120 min mash (Stepped 63/40 66/30 72/20 + 78/15)

Mash hop
FWH
60 min - TBD
40 min - TBD
20 min - TBD
10 min - TBD
5 min - TBD
WP - TBD

This is similar to the brew that just got me 4th in the State comp  h34r: (no partigyle on that one)


----------

