# Show us your Barrels



## Yob (7/8/16)

cant believe this doesnt already exist...

Home Cellar and testing facility...





and these arent all mine but I can claim to be involved and was filling them on the weekend...





All ex port single Malt Whiskey Barrels with RIS in them... gunna take some getting through


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## Grott (7/8/16)

Yob said:


> All ex port single Malt Whiskey Barrels with RIS in them... gunna take some getting through



Need help then?


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## Yob (7/8/16)

I'm assuming various parts of Australia will help us out


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## LAGERFRENZY (7/8/16)

the John Holmes of barrelporn


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## Yob (7/8/16)

Those banana benders have quite a few pieces of pretty hard wood...


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## LAGERFRENZY (7/8/16)

Yes many Queenslanders' woods are hard and tall and proud but they're not loaded to the gills with RIS you teaser!


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## Mikeyr (7/8/16)

More wood than mardi gras!

And on a serious note ....... god damn!


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## JDW81 (8/8/16)

How are you dealing with the inevitable "angel's share" Yob?


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## Yob (8/8/16)

copping it on the chin.. at home Im in a solaire type setup so Im constantly (every now and then) topping it up with fresh fermented.

In the other system it'll be a blend coming out and a top up to the barrels so invariably... brew more :drinks:


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## Fraser's BRB (8/8/16)

As someone who knows nothing about barrels for beer, but is interested to find out more, how big are those and how many uses do you get out of them?

From your post above I gather you're topping up as you go, does this mean you never really empty the barrel and start again or are you just topping up to account for the loss to timber?

Edit: by how big, I mean what volume?


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (8/8/16)

Yob

Is the fact that they've been used for whisky important to you?

I have access to those barrels before they go to the distillery if that's any help.


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## barls (8/8/16)

heres the one i share with stuster
currently fermenting a flemish red.


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## droid (8/8/16)

I'm not sure about Yob's set-up but when adding to a barrel it seems unanimous to add the fresh brew whilst it still has a couple of gravity points to go, providing a natural purge - That's how I layered mine, which means there'll be yeast in suspension that then falls out of suspension and forms a cake. You could always pull some beer from the bottom and take out the yeast and keep beer in for a long, long time, temperature and environment dependant.

Another tip I learned after the fact was to taste the beer from the top, middle and bottom so you get a good idea how the whole barrel tastes.

Oh no, here comes the brain-cramp, if you empty the barrel I was told 4 brews before you are risking compromising the barrel, but if you keep it wet with beer...then...


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## sstacey (8/8/16)

So how do you clean these things? I understand straight from the distillery they had high alc in them, but what about after having a beer in them? There must be yeast sediment for starters. Are they ok if you keep putting fresh beer in or can they be cleaned. I'd love a barrel but don't want to have to chuck it every few brews if it goes feral.


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## sp0rk (8/8/16)

Fraser's BRB said:


> As someone who knows nothing about barrels for beer, but is interested to find out more, how big are those and how many uses do you get out of them?
> 
> From your post above I gather you're topping up as you go, does this mean you never really empty the barrel and start again or are you just topping up to account for the loss to timber?
> 
> Edit: by how big, I mean what volume?


I think we need to find some 50-100L port barrels from a local winery and do a Hunter Brewing co-operative brew to fill a few


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## Fraser's BRB (8/8/16)

sp0rk said:


> I think we need to find some 50-100L port barrels from a local winery and do a Hunter Brewing co-operative brew to fill a few


I like the way you think. I'm all for it.


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## Yob (8/8/16)

Lyrebird_Cycles said:


> Yob
> 
> Is the fact that they've been used for whisky important to you?
> 
> I have access to those barrels before they go to the distillery if that's any help.


yeah man, the fact they've had Lark Single Malt in them for 5 years is key..

Im not really (at this point) interested in Wine Barrels, my passion is the Whisky infusion into RIS... was great in the Scotch ale too before I fucked the barrel)

we have a cooper lined up to shave and re char the barrels when the Whisky eventually fades.

Interested to know more though...

#shakesheadatselfknowingwhatscoming


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (8/8/16)

OK, no probs. Was hoping I could pay one forward for your sterling work on the bulk buy.

Be aware that reshaved and fired barrels have a distinct character which passes to the contents. Most quality conscious wineries don't use reworked barrels for that reason. Mind you the character is basically "vin cotto" flavour, could work in beer.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (8/8/16)

sp0rk said:


> I think we need to find some 50-100L port barrels from a local winery and do a Hunter Brewing co-operative brew to fill a few


A 110 litre barrel is called an octave, about the only people with them are Yalumba who have them made specially for a wine called "The Octavius". Second hand octaves are highly sought after, expect to pay well for them.

50 litres barrels are mostly display barrels, be careful they are often waxed or otherwise effed up because it's not considered a serious size (surface area to volume ratio is too high)


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (8/8/16)

SPS said:


> So how do you clean these things?


With one of these:








There's a good version made by Rapidfil in Oz but their site is down at the moment.


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## barls (8/8/16)

mines a fence oak octavos barrel.


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## Yob (8/8/16)

barls said:


> mines a fence oak octavos barrel.


lolz, white picket or treated pine?


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## barls (8/8/16)

treated pine.

french oak. you munchkin I'm going to go back to my wiezenbock


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## sstacey (9/8/16)

For home brewers, is there any taste advantage using barrels above using charred oak chips soaked in scotch? Can I get the same result without all the serious cleaning, cooperage costs, etc.


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## Yob (9/8/16)

What serious cleaning? Cooperage costs?

Mate, we're talking years of use and then $80 to make new.. Not that bad really...

You call it "the same" I say you don't have a barrel...


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## idzy (9/8/16)

SPS said:


> For home brewers, is there any taste advantage using barrels above using charred oak chips soaked in scotch? Can I get the same result without all the serious cleaning, cooperage costs, etc.


Surface area and oxidisation are the main factors. Both adding unsurpassed flavours comparative to other methods.


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## sstacey (9/8/16)

Thanks Idsy.
Yob, my original post was asking how many beers you can put through these and whether they require serious cleaning between beers to prevent infection. Or do you just hose out the yeast trub with water? Someone needs to write a detailed wiki on how to manage barrels in the home brewery.


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## Yob (9/8/16)

I can't answer how many as I'm still going, I've cycled about 5 kegs through thus far with little if any signs of character loss.

Never had cause to flush it yet.


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## sstacey (9/8/16)

Yob, I assume you are using 18L kegs and the barrel is about 100L. So by cycling 5 kegs through, are you drawing 1 keg worth off the barrel and then refilling with a freshly fermented batch - so you have a mix of fresh and old beer in the barrel? Or are you doing it batch wise by filling the barrel and ageing, then emptying the whole barrel into 5 kegs and refilling the barrel with fresh beer again?


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## Yob (9/8/16)

Keg at a time, I don't want to empty it

Solaire, so adding fresh beer to the barrel and blending as it comes out with fresh as well usually


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## sp0rk (9/8/16)

SPS said:


> For home brewers, is there any taste advantage using barrels above using charred oak chips soaked in scotch? Can I get the same result without all the serious cleaning, cooperage costs, etc.


Chips have a lot of end grain, which leads to high tannin extraction, but they work very quickly
Mini staves/dominoes have a much lower end grain, so lower tannin extraction, these work a little slower, but still give reasonably quick results (I use these in my stouts & porters, and some other hobbies)
Actual barrels have next to no end grain, so very little tannin extraction, but require longer aging, the end result is a much richer and pleasant


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## RobW (9/8/16)

SPS said:


> Thanks Idsy.
> Yob, my original post was asking how many beers you can put through these and whether they require serious cleaning between beers to prevent infection. Or do you just hose out the yeast trub with water? Someone needs to write a detailed wiki on how to manage barrels in the home brewery.


I have a 5 gallon barrel that had previously held port but subsequently gone pretty manky.
I've cleaned it with percarbonate and it's currently filled with Starsan so I'm pretty happy that it's clean but I'm not sure how much barrel character is going to remain.
I assume a fair bit will be scrubbed out.


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## Yob (9/8/16)

You're going for a funk barrel?


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## sp0rk (9/8/16)

Lyrebird_Cycles said:


> A 110 litre barrel is called an octave, about the only people with them are Yalumba who have them made specially for a wine called "The Octavius". Second hand octaves are highly sought after, expect to pay well for them.
> 
> 50 litres barrels are mostly display barrels, be careful they are often waxed or otherwise effed up because it's not considered a serious size (surface area to volume ratio is too high)


I was talking to an old greek bloke who has a little winery (I think at Merriwa) and he says he has some in those sizes
Next time I see him at the markets I'll see if he can help me out, otherwise I guess we'll just have to get at least 4 or 5 of us together to fill a 225L


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## idzy (9/8/16)

SPS said:


> Thanks Idsy.
> Yob, my original post was asking how many beers you can put through these and whether they require serious cleaning between beers to prevent infection. Or do you just hose out the yeast trub with water? Someone needs to write a detailed wiki on how to manage barrels in the home brewery.


There are really good podcasts on Sour Hour regarding barrel care, storage, treatment and cleaning. From memory starsan and citric acid is your friend.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (9/8/16)

Yob said:


> Keg at a time, I don't want to empty it
> 
> Solaire, so adding fresh beer to the barrel and blending as it comes out with fresh as well usually


_Solera_. The literal meaning is actually the base the barrels are sitting on.


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## sstacey (9/8/16)

Thanks for all the answers. The blend of old and new beer sounds a lot like old London porter. I'll listen to the sour hr. I still think someone should write a comprehensive wiki on barrel ageing. It would be an excellent post.


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## Yob (9/8/16)

Lyrebird_Cycles said:


> Solera. The literal meaning is actually the base the barrels are sitting on.
> 
> Note that unless you are using muliple barrels, you are not technically using a solera system, you're just part emptying.


Planning on transferring my Bourbon RIS barrel to my French Oak port.. So I will be, just isn't yet


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## sstacey (9/8/16)

Yob, do you worry about air spoilage while you are part dispensing, or do you replace the air with CO2 before refilling? Did you add any brett yeast to the barrel?


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## Mardoo (9/8/16)

I heard on BrewStrong that there's a homebrew book on barrel aging that is about to come out.


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## Yob (9/8/16)

SPS said:


> Yob, do you worry about air spoilage while you are part dispensing, or do you replace the air with CO2 before refilling? Did you add any brett yeast to the barrel?


Nope and nope.. It's %12-13 

I've been thinking about making up a bung to CPBF though to make life easier so stay tuned on that


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (9/8/16)

Trying to inert gas barrel headspace is a waste of time. Just make sure you fill it again, bung it and don't keep opening it to see how it's going, or at least if you do, top it up again straight away.

You can't keep oxygen out of anything in a barrel: they're permeable, that's how they work. Figure roughly 1 mg / l / month O2 permeation for older* barrels in standard sizes (barriques or hogsheads).

Yob, you can buy systems designed to use gas pressure to empty barrels from any wine equipment wholesaler. I think Wally Ware makes one.

* Can't see anyone springing around $1k for a new barrel for beer but if you did, permeation rates are much higher in the first year.


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## RobW (9/8/16)

Yob said:


> You're going for a funk barrel?


Let's call it character rather than funk


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## RobW (9/8/16)

idzy said:


> There are really good podcasts on Sour Hour regarding barrel care, storage, treatment and cleaning. From memory starsan and citric acid is your friend.


Citric acid is the go for storage IIRC.
I need to check and do that.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (9/8/16)

A few litres of a solution of 2% citric acid with 1000 parts of PMS in each barrel. Replace every few months. It's convenient to make up the solution beforehand and pour it in but if you're a sulphite triggered asthmatic (as I am) that can be problematic. Another way of doing it is to pour in a few litres of citric then throw in an effervescent sulphite tablet, available from winemaking supplies.

If you are really careful and live inside the range you can knock one head out of the barrel and store it dry. Getting the head back on is the hard bit, there's a special tool you'll need (or call a cooper).

What a lot of wineries do is designate a bulk wine as barrel fill and use it to keep empty barrels sweet then just blend it away once finished.

It is completely impossible to sanitise a barrel, there is no point in trying. There's a system on the market to sterilise them using a microwave large enough to put a barrel in but it costs a fortune. A few years ago I took over looking after a small winery where the previous winemaker(s) had been a bit slack about barrel care so we needed to sterilise quite a few of them. I rigged up a continuous water heater on a recirculation loop and took the thermostat off line, recirculated the water until the whole barrel got to 100 oC then left it overnight. Seemed to work OK.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (9/8/16)

Addendum to the above: assuming you have a keg system, put the sulphite / citric solution in a keg and dispense it into the barrels. No muss, no fuss.


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## Yob (9/8/16)

Lyrebird_Cycles said:


> Yob, you can buy systems designed to use gas pressure to empty barrels from any wine equipment wholesaler. I think Wally Ware makes one.


I think you more so than many appreciate the fun in a good build though right?


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## drsmurto (9/8/16)

I've got 2 ex-Yalumba octaves currently full of RIS and Imperial Rauchbier. I store them full of beer during the cooler months with a small dose of PMS (50mg/L). They get emptied late Spring, high pressure hot washed at a local winery, then stored with a concentrated sulfite holding solution until ready to be refilled in Autumn. No funk in my barrels.

My one regret is i should have bought 220L barrels instead of these small ones.


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## Yob (9/8/16)

DrSmurto said:


> I've got 2 ex-Yalumba octaves currently full of RIS and Imperial Rauchbier. I store them full of beer during the cooler months with a small dose of PMS (50mg/L). They get emptied late Spring, high pressure hot washed at a local winery, then stored with a concentrated sulfite holding solution until ready to be refilled in Autumn. No funk in my barrels.
> 
> My one regret is i should have bought 220L barrels instead of these small ones.


you just keg them up Doc?

Whats PMS.. Im sure if I google that I'll be offered all sorts of compounds


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## dannymars (9/8/16)

Yob said:


> Whats PMS..


Potassium Metabisulphite


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (9/8/16)

Yob said:


> I think you more so than many appreciate the fun in a good build though right?


Yes, currently investigating options for lauter plate:

Option #1 is SS from my favourite laser cutter; they're not sure if they can get the slot width right.

Option #2 is chemically milled SS; I can do that here.

Option # 3 is carbon fibre; strangely that looks to be the easiest.


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## Yob (9/8/16)

Can you whip me up a bike while your at it?


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (9/8/16)

You want it in stainless or carbon?

On a serious note, bikes are what I do for a living now. Google my user name.


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## Zorco (9/8/16)

Bike builders are impressive....you already were LC..

http://www.gianlucagimini.it/prototypes/velocipedia.html

How much to make me the white one?


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## sstacey (9/8/16)

Should be cheap because it doesn't have pedals.


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## drsmurto (9/8/16)

Yob said:


> you just keg them up Doc?
> 
> Whats PMS.. Im sure if I google that I'll be offered all sorts of compounds


As already mentioned, PMS is potassium metabisulfite. I treat my wine barrels as....... wine barrels. 

And yes, the beer gets kegged. What sort of beer snob doesn't want barrel aged RIS on tap?

I don't bottle as I don't have a sadomasochistic tendency.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (9/8/16)

zorsoc_cosdog said:


> http://www.gianlucagimini.it/prototypes/velocipedia.html
> 
> How much to make me the white one?


That site is cool. It's a source of constant amusement how depictions of bikes are so often very far from the mark, he's taken that concept and run with it.

"Age old Grandpa Lee" seems to have been channeling the CInelli Laser, one of my favourite ever bikes:


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## Mardoo (9/8/16)

The elegance of some the Cinellis is exquisite. What's going on down around the bottom bracket there?


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (9/8/16)

DrSmurto said:


> What sort of beer snob doesn't want barrel aged RIS on tap?


I'm evidently not a beer snob, that's good to know.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (9/8/16)

Mardoo said:


> The elegance of some the Cinellis is exquisite. What's going on down around the bottom bracket there?


Early attempt at fairing the rear wheel using an extension of the down tube past the BB. SInce outlawed, along with the differential wheel sizing.

I love these things so much I'm making a replica of the road bike version next month. I'm calling it "Cineole" which is a bit of a nerd joke: cineole is the main component in eucalyptus oil.


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## Zorco (9/8/16)

</Lyrebird_Cycles'_Cycles>


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## Reman (9/8/16)

Mardoo said:


> I heard on BrewStrong that there's a homebrew book on barrel aging that is about to come out.


https://www.amazon.com/Wood-Beer-Brewers-Dick-Cantwell/dp/1938469216


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## Mardoo (9/8/16)

There ya go! Cheers!


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## Zorco (9/8/16)

I wanna get drunk ASAP and go on an unrestrained literature purchasing spree!


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## Grainer (9/8/16)

Yob said:


> Nope and nope.. It's %12-13
> 
> I've been thinking about making up a bung to CPBF though to make life easier so stay tuned on that


Got all the parts on order to make mine !


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## MickGC (8/1/17)

Picked up a couple of barrels this week 
Was after 220s but ended up with 300/330 hogsheads


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## MickGC (8/1/17)

Picked up a couple of barrels this week 
Was after 220s but ended up with 300/330 hogsheads


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## MickGC (8/1/17)

One of them is a group brew with 4 other mates, Monday we fire up Zorco's brew rig and brew up 330 odd litres of a Flanders red


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## MickGC (8/1/17)

The other is The Gold Clubs club barrel project


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