# Using Flaked Maize



## Tony (26/1/06)

Hi all

I have used flaked maize in a few brews so far but im not sure if im getting everything out of it.

I have been just adding it to the mash and letting it steep with the grain at whatever temp i choose.

Is there a better way to use it?

I have heard of people cooking it like u would oats the release the starches.

I was hoping some people could share their thoughts, experiences and sugestions on this great little adjunct.

cheers

Oh....... i am only using it at 5 to 7% at the moment but might be using it in the 20 something % mark soon for a CAP.

cheers again


----------



## Ross (26/1/06)

Tony,

I spoke to Fawcett's in the Uk on this very matter - They told me their product just needs to be mashed along with the other grains - no special treatment needed...

cheers Ross


----------



## Pumpy (26/1/06)

Tony ,

I have only used the Polenta, add about a third of its weight in crushed malt, add some H2O, raise it's temperature to 65oC for ten minutes, then boil for half an hour. Stir contantly.

It bubbles and spits so be careful .

Pumpy


----------



## Guest Lurker (26/1/06)

Cook polenta, just chuck the fawcetts stuff in the mash. About 5% adds a nice dryness to an ESB, more than that and you can sort of taste it. Ive used 20 and 25% in CAPs with no conversion problems, and it makes a nice light lager and gives a yellow hue to the beer.


----------



## Tony (27/1/06)

thanks all 

I have the TF stuff so i will continue doing what im doing

cheers people


----------



## johnno (11/5/06)

I was shocked to find that my favourite brew store had no flaked corn in stock today.
I need 300 grams for a beer i am making this weekend.
what can i use as a substitute?


help!!

cheers
johnno


----------



## Jim_Levet (11/5/06)

Sanitarium Corn Flakes or go to a health food shop
James


----------



## Mr Bond (11/5/06)

Corn popped in a hot air popper works 4 me.


----------



## warrenlw63 (11/5/06)

Also Johnno.

If you can be bothered hunting around for it some healthfood shops sell Maize Flour. You could probably sift a bit of that into the mash with no ill-effects.

Other than that see my PM?  

Warren -


----------



## Kai (11/5/06)

Best way to get more from it is to use more. Since it's flaked, the carbohydrates contained within are pregelatinised so there's nothing needed to do with it other than add it to the mash.


----------



## Duff (11/5/06)

Mel at ESB told me to use popcorn from the supermarket, un-popped.


----------



## johnno (11/5/06)

Jim_Levet said:


> Sanitarium Corn Flakes or go to a health food shop
> James
> [post="125692"][/post]​






Brauluver said:


> Corn popped in a hot air popper works 4 me.
> [post="125695"][/post]​






warrenlw63 said:


> Also Johnno.
> 
> If you can be bothered hunting around for it some healthfood shops sell Maize Flour. You could probably sift a bit of that into the mash with no ill-effects.
> 
> ...






Kai said:


> Best way to get more from it is to use more. Since it's flaked, the carbohydrates contained within are pregelatinised so there's nothing needed to do with it other than add it to the mash.
> [post="125711"][/post]​






Duff said:


> Mel at ESB told me to use popcorn from the supermarket, un-popped.
> [post="125715"][/post]​




WOW!!



Thanks evreybody. What a selection. 75g of each in the mash   

I'll suss it out.

cheers
johnno


----------



## Duff (11/5/06)

Well I hope it's right, I've got a kilo of the stuff and was planning to use some in a Fullers clone shortly :unsure: 

If it isn't SWMBO will take care of it  

Cheers.


----------



## Mr Bond (11/5/06)

Duff said:


> Mel at ESB told me to use popcorn from the supermarket, un-popped.
> [post="125715"][/post]​



MMM.....Thats interesting? I thought it needed the heat from popping to mimic/cause the gelatinising process which makes it mashable. It certainly works a treat and all but dissolves in the mash to leave the husk.
maybe you could check back with em and clarify this point.

Oh yeah,congrats on 500 posts and your title "ya big hunk of spunk"


----------



## Kai (11/5/06)

I'd go the corn flakes, johnno. Mainly because I'm curious to know how well it'd work.


----------



## Darren (11/5/06)

do the sanitarium cornflakes have added salt?


----------



## johnno (11/5/06)

Kai said:


> I'd go the corn flakes, johnno. Mainly because I'm curious to know how well it'd work.
> [post="125787"][/post]​


WHile at the brewshop today i mentioned that and the repot was that they had been tried but were not very efficient.

And I have tried to get all the right ingredients it would be a shame if it did not work out.

cheers
johnno


----------



## Guest Lurker (11/5/06)

Geez, uncooked popcorn would give the mill a bit of a workout.


----------



## Mr Bond (11/5/06)

Guest Lurker said:


> Geez, uncooked popcorn would give the mill a bit of a workout.
> [post="125795"][/post]​



"Shake Rattle and Roll" methinks.

After airpopping I just give it a rub together with hands(anti bac washed) to break up and stir into the mash.Measure quantity unpopped and then pop fresh,its usually still warm when i mix it in.


----------



## Darren (11/5/06)

Guest Lurker said:


> Geez, uncooked popcorn would give the mill a bit of a workout.
> [post="125795"][/post]​




No un-popped corn is going through my mill. Health food shops sell flaked corn.

cheers
Darren


----------



## johnno (11/5/06)

Darren said:


> Health food shops sell flaked corn.
> cheers
> Darren
> [post="125817"][/post]​




I'll be hunting down the health food stores then.

Thanks Darren...and PoL. :beerbang: 

cheers
johnno


----------



## Kai (11/5/06)

I would run corn flakes through your mill to crush them up more, that might help efficiency. Though they might be too salty like you said on chat.


----------



## stephen (14/5/06)

I've just made a Fullers London Pride clone and had difficulty sourcing the flaked maize. I ended up using good old Kellog's Cornflakes in the mash: The product is fermenting in the shed as I type. One thing I found was that the hot break had floaties the size of postage stamps in the kettle - totally mesmerising to watch!

As for the final outcome - that will be several weeks away but will keep the forum informed.

Steve


----------



## NRB (14/5/06)

This should be interesting to follow up Steve. I only learnt the other day that cornflakes may be too salty.

Johnno, what flaked maize product did you use? I'm considering trying a Belgian using popped corn in the near future.


----------



## stephen (14/5/06)

NRB

The recipe called for 285 gms, the box I bought was 310 gms - I couldn't be bothered with the 25 gm difference. As for the salt, the amount stated on the box looked too small to be worried about so I ignored it. 

The good thing about the brew is that it will 25% RDI of Niacen, Riboflaven, various witamins etc  

Steve


----------



## Tony (14/5/06)

salt....you want salt.....

you should see the amount of salt that goes into the glucose that is used by a very big meggaswill company

turns me GREEN

I get my flaked maize from grumpys. just bought 5 kg of it....... you would have to ask them for an availability.

I like the idea of using popcorn. very inovative.

cheers


----------



## dicko (14/5/06)

I just use flaked maize,
It is available from most good HB shops and some bad HB shops in SA.
Cheers


----------



## Mr Bond (14/5/06)

NRB said:


> I'm considering trying a Belgian using popped corn in the near future.
> [post="126334"][/post]​



Do it! You won't be dissapointed.

Measure your quantity dry and then pop in a hot air popper.Popping gelatinises the grain and it all but dissolves in the mash leaving the husks(which seem to aid sparging).taste the sweet wort prior to hopping and boiling(mega sweet)


----------



## NRB (14/5/06)

You've twisted my arm, but I'll pop it in a pot on the stove.


----------



## Mr Bond (15/5/06)

NRB said:


> You've twisted my arm, but I'll pop it in a pot on the stove.
> [post="126374"][/post]​



Won't u need oil for that in the pot.?Oil is no good if its on the grain.With out oil it will scorch and taste funny.

Thats why an air popper is recommended for this .The grain is spun in hot air and pops out clean and dry.


----------



## Asher (15/5/06)

Thomas Fawcett flaked maze is worth searching for....
Read up about it here paying particular attention to wessmiths posts....

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...c=7598&hl=maize

Asher for now


----------



## johnno (15/5/06)

NRB said:


> This should be interesting to follow up Steve. I only learnt the other day that cornflakes may be too salty.
> 
> Johnno, what flaked maize product did you use? I'm considering trying a Belgian using popped corn in the near future.
> [post="126334"][/post]​




I ended up using Bio Organic - Yes Bio..not just organic cornflakes.  

I used the ones with the less salt in them that i could find.

In this case 0.2g per 100g.

cheers
johnno


----------



## NRB (15/5/06)

Brauluver said:


> Won't u need oil for that in the pot.?Oil is no good if its on the grain.With out oil it will scorch and taste funny.



Nope, I pop all my popcorn without oil on the stove and have never had a problem with it. I guess my temperature control is pretty good


----------



## johnno (16/5/06)

Bringing this up again because my Favourite HBS will no longer stock this product.

Apparently weevils were discovered in the product.

I always thought it was a locally made product but apparently not so. None on the JW malt website. Anyone else supposed to be making it in Australia.

I have to get some for some recipes I am looking into.

So where does it come from> Which maltsters make it.

Will I have to order from interstate?

cheers
johnno


----------



## warrenlw63 (16/5/06)

Johhno

It's supplied by either Baird's or Fawcett's.

Weevils.... Eeeekkk. :blink: 

Warren -


----------



## johnno (16/5/06)

NRB said:


> Brauluver said:
> 
> 
> > Won't u need oil for that in the pot.?Oil is no good if its on the grain.With out oil it will scorch and taste funny.
> ...




You are going to have to come around and show me how that is done NRB.

Will be nearly time to sample the rye ipa  

cheers
johnno


----------



## PistolPatch (16/5/06)

Timely topic thanks as I was just after some flaked maize myself.

In the link that Asher gave above, Warren said that corn flour would give similiar results. Nothing further was mentioned though. Warren's idea sounds easy and would be very attractive for people that don't even know what an air popper is - not me of course!


----------



## Duff (16/5/06)

I'm guessing it could be done in the microwave as well?


----------



## Kai (16/5/06)

Weevils are fine if you employ a protein rest. Their exoskeleton also aids in lautering.


----------



## johnno (16/5/06)

Kai said:


> Weevils are fine if you employ a protein rest. Their exoskeleton also aids in lautering.
> [post="126818"][/post]​




mmmmm......weevil ale :beerbang:


----------



## Darren (16/5/06)

Duff said:


> I'm guessing it could be done in the microwave as well?
> [post="126817"][/post]​



Duff is right. Just put it in a bowl with lid and turn the microwave on high. Alaways works for me.


cheers
Darren


----------



## johnno (16/5/06)

Darren said:


> Duff said:
> 
> 
> > I'm guessing it could be done in the microwave as well?
> ...




OK.
Another question now. Apologies if it has been answered earlier in the thread.


If the recipe calls for 300g of flaked corn. Do you use 300g of popped or unpopped corn?

cheers
johnno


----------



## Kai (16/5/06)

popped i reckon. It's had the water boiled off, something that I reckon must happen in flaking too. Would be interesting to compare weights before and after for both types.


----------



## Darren (16/5/06)

Would be interesting. Same weight different volume I would guess.

cheers
Darren


----------



## Mr Bond (16/5/06)

I've always weighed and then popped .Next time (possibly this sat...) I will do a 50 gm comparo


----------



## NRB (16/5/06)

johnno said:


> You are going to have to come around and show me how that is done NRB.
> 
> Will be nearly time to sample the rye ipa



Sounds good to me Johnno! The secret to the popping is keeping the pot moving.




Darren said:


> Duff is right. Just put it in a bowl with lid and turn the microwave on high. Alaways works for me.



I too can confirm this works well.




Kai said:


> popped i reckon. It's had the water boiled off, something that I reckon must happen in flaking too. Would be interesting to compare weights before and after for both types.



I just ran an experiment with 3 separate kernels

K1 0.17g pre-pop, 0.15g post
K2 0.17g pre-pop, 0.15g post
K3 0.13g pre-pop, 0.12g post

From this really small sample - somewhere between 7 and 12% water in un-popped corn kernels that is released during popping.


----------



## warrenlw63 (16/5/06)

PistolPatch said:


> Warren said that corn flour would give similiar results. Nothing further was mentioned though. Warren's idea sounds easy and would be very attractive for people that don't even know what an air popper is - not me of course!
> [post="126815"][/post]​



PP

Maize flour is available from Health Food stores and (some supermarkets). It's just plain corn flour that's a bit on the yellowish side but is clearly labeled as maize flour.

The times I used it I just sifted it with a mesh collander through the crushed grain and mixed the grain (dry by hand) to disperse it before dumping it all in the mash.

If you don't sift it you increase the likelihood of it clumping. It's been a few years since I've used it because flaked maize was always more convenient in recent times. Maximum amount used (from memory) was about 300g in about 5kg of grain for a 23 litre batch.

Warren -


----------



## Mr Bond (16/5/06)

NRB said:


> I just ran an experiment with 3 separate kernels
> 
> K1 0.17g pre-pop, 0.15g post
> K2 0.17g pre-pop, 0.15g post
> ...



Great work you scientist you!(this is why AHB is such a great resource)

From that data I think i would still pop dry weight and allow a 10%(average)loss in my calculations.

Brau(the semi pedantic) brewer.

Seriously ,give the popped corn a go! it has worked well for me and is a cheap,yet effective method of extending and enhancing an ale,especially a blonde.


----------



## NRB (16/5/06)

It's by no means a scientific experiment as my scales are only accurate to 0.01g, not to mention I only used a single kernel at a time - I didn't feel like eating 100g or so of popcorn.

I might run it again with a better sample in future if no one else does.


----------



## BoilerBoy (16/5/06)

Interesting about pre and post popped corn.

Since my corn popper will do only 100g at a time I noticed it came out aprox 90g or slightly under post popped.

Cheers
BB


----------



## NRB (17/5/06)

Which ties in with my calculations BB.


----------



## DJR (19/12/06)

Old topic again i know

The GTR (gelatinization temperature range) of corn/maize is generally 62-72C, so it would gelatinise at mash temp unless you were for some reason using a low mash temp under 62C, just use some regular or instant polenta and screw the cereal mash, too much work boiling it!

Source http://jas.fass.org/cgi/reprint/80/5/1145.pdf (search for GTR)

Should make those CACA/CAP's easier than having to track down rolled/flaked maize or burn your hands. Might give a CACA a go next and use some plain polenta in place of flaked maize.


----------



## Ross (19/12/06)

Or use flaked rice, I've had excellent results using this in my CAP...

cheers Ross


----------



## Kai (19/12/06)

Flaked rice has a different flavour to flaked corn, both lighten the body and colour but corn has a sweeter flavour and smoother mouthfeel in my experience. Plus it tastes like corn rather than rice.


----------



## MHB (19/12/06)

Just because there is a range given doesn't mean it will all gelatinise at the bottom of that range, the only way to guarantee gelatinisation is to boil the adjunct.

Table View attachment 10576


MHB


----------



## Mr Bond (19/12/06)

Brauluver said:


> Seriously ,give the popped corn a go! it has worked well for me and is a cheap,yet effective method of extending and enhancing an ale,especially a blonde.



7 months on and I'll just reiterate what a great adjunct airpopped corn is.
Fast, easy ,clean and o'so fresh


----------



## facter (14/6/07)

I'm making a vienna lager on Saturday and it calls for about 300g of laked maize ...

I'm going to go the popcorn route - I will microwave it just ina container with a lid on it 

... would I be correct in assuming that given the rough ratios that maybe around 330grams of corn kernels would give me about that 300g?

Can I then just add the popcorn straight to the mash?


----------



## Kai (14/6/07)

Yes and yes, though I don't see why you'd be using corn in a vienna lager.


----------



## THE DRUNK ARAB (14/6/07)

Kai said:


> Yes and yes, though I don't see why you'd be using corn in a vienna lager.



I'm in agreeance with Kai here.

100% Vienna Malt all the way (and a touch of Carafa for colour adjustment).

C&B
TDA


----------



## facter (14/6/07)

Kai said:


> Yes and yes, though I don't see why you'd be using corn in a vienna lager.



Hey Kai. Im actually going for a mexican vienna - theres some recipes for them in the jan-feb 2006 BYO 

"most mexican vienna lagers contain some corn in their formulation .. you could add up to 20% corn ... in your vienna lager"

All the recipes say to add it, and as I am looking to do a Dos Equis clone, I reckon I will as well ... thats one of my favorite lagers and now that Im geared to do them, I want to give it a shot.

I didnt realise that most viennas didnt have corn, thats the only article or reference ive really looked at!


----------



## geoffi (14/6/07)

I've used popcorn a few times instead of flaked maize. Works a treat. I use an air popper, but the mwave should be fine.

BTW, don't try to crush the kernels. They are way harder than barley. Just pop 'em and chuck 'em in the mash.


----------



## Trough Lolly (14/6/07)

Geoffi said:


> I've used popcorn a few times instead of flaked maize. Works a treat. I use an air popper, but the mwave should be fine.
> 
> BTW, don't try to crush the kernels. They are way harder than barley. Just pop 'em and chuck 'em in the mash.



....without lashings of salt and butter!


----------



## Kai (14/6/07)

facter said:


> Hey Kai. Im actually going for a mexican vienna - theres some recipes for them in the jan-feb 2006 BYO
> 
> "most mexican vienna lagers contain some corn in their formulation .. you could add up to 20% corn ... in your vienna lager"
> 
> ...



Ah, a mex vienna.. I'll let you do that


----------

