# Methods Of Straining Hot Break/hop Pellets



## dpadden (25/2/09)

Title says it all really....when no chilling, I am getting quite a lot of hot break and hops into the cube where as I would rather keep it fairly clean.

I was thinking of simple straining into the cube, but then thought this would aerate the wort to much hot side. I am using a keggle, with a simple stainless pickup tube....if I try and keep the hot break and hops in the kettle I end up leaving way to much wort behind. as has been suggested I considered a screen on the pick up tube but reckon the sludge will block this pretty quickly.

Any other simple suggestions???


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## Lachlan (25/2/09)

A hopsock from CB, the best investment i have made, No more clogging. 

As for the break material i just keep a close eye on my pick up tube and when it stats suck the break i shut it off and allocate a little more for the extra loss.


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## Bribie G (25/2/09)

Do you use whirlfloc? I use a whole tablet, not half as suggested, leave for twenty minutes to settle and always get clear wort into the cube. The trub looks like well coagulated bread crumbs in the bottom of the kettle. Another useful thingo is a hop sock, even when using pellets. It keeps nearly all the pellet trub inside but the material gets a good simmer.

I always imagined a hopsock to be a woosy little floppy thing and was very impressed when I got it out of the box ... They are a very heavy duty item that does a serious job:







Something I have considered but not implemented yet is a stainless steel funnel with a kitchen stainless steel scrubber jammed down inside and a layer of wetted hop flowers above, sort of a hop back / strainer.


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## brettprevans (25/2/09)

sludge shouldnt clog a screen up. afterall thats its job. wayne from beerbelly makes some good looking pickup screens. 

or a hopsock is good. wont get too much aeration. I use a hopsock with my extract brews. works fine for me. just like BIAB on a small scale


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## Gavo (25/2/09)

Last brew I did I whirpooled then run into the cube. When cooled in cube I transferred into the fermenter pouring through a large sanitized strainer. Worked well at seperating any loose hops and larger break material and airating the cooled wortat the same time, ready for the yeast to get going. 

Cheers
Gavo


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## A3k (26/2/09)

I try to use whole flowers when possible, and just put some stainless steel braid on my pickup tube left over from my mash tun. It works a treat FOR FLOWERS, which is my main motivation for using flowers. If I dont use it, the flowers block my pickup tube and causes the drain into the cube to take a long time. Did it once and got an infection as the temp dropped too much by the time it all drained.

However its terrible for pellets, as it clogs up in a second. Ive been thinking about the hopsock idea, but cant find them since moving house.

Ill be looking closely for other ideas for pellets though.


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## mikem108 (26/2/09)

Rip one of these up and stick it loosely into the ball valve


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## jjeffrey (26/2/09)

A whirl pool will separate your hops and hot break without any extra gear. It's easy once you've done it a few times, and you don't have to clean filters or bags afterwards. 


Add irish moss or whirlfloc 5 minutes before flame-out. 
On flame-out, use a paddle to give it a gentle steady stir, increasing slowly until the volume in the kettle is moving around as fast as poosible without creating vortices behind the paddle (vortices are deterimental to a good cone, also paddles are better than spoons because they shed less vortices). 
Then remove the paddle and put the lid on. Let it swirl around and come to rest. Once at rest you want to just let it sit for a couple of minutes. This process normally takes me about 10 minutes (that is, once you've removed the paddle). What happens is the protein in the hot-break and the tannins in the hops kind of bind up, and sticky cone forms in the middle- it needs a bit of time to thicken up into a stable structure. 
Then you start siphoning off from the side. When you get about 10mm from the top of the cone, slow the flow down as much as possible, to allow the wort to drain from the cone. If you do it too fast, the cone falls apart and a significant portion will end up in the fermenter. Stop when you see to chunks starting to get close to being sucked up.

It's part of the art. A good whirlpool and transfer will remove pretty much all of the hops and break material.


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## dr K (26/2/09)

Great Post jjeffrey.
In a full size brewery (that whirlpools) the hot wort itself is pumped out and back in tangentially causing a whirlpool which is then let to settle.
It is a pretty important part of the brewing process and I would have thought a critical part of the wort kit process from which "No-Chill" derives.
On the other hand the huge success rates that No-Chill (hop bag or not) has indicates that such measures may not be required.
I use an immersion chiller and I whirlpool.

K


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## boingk (26/2/09)

I just did my first BIAB and sanitised the grain bag straight after use, during the hopping schedule. I then ran the whole wort through the bag and into the fermenter, cleaning it again after use. h34r:

I'd prefer a hop-sock, though.

- boingk


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## SpillsMostOfIt (27/2/09)

For quite a while, I dismissed the whirlpool idea and tried using all sorts of things - the most successful being a ladies' lingerie wash bag that had a very fine weave and worked better than a hop sock for pellets.

Frankly, now that I have switched to whirlpooling, I wonder why I piss-farted around for so long trying to filter at all. I'm no whirlpool master, but with my current level of whirlpoolmanship, I get virtually no hot break or hop material into the cube. What little does make it through settles onto the bottom of the cube and stays there. I tend to leave about half a litre or less in the cube and surprisingly little in the kettle.

As jjeffrey points out, it is really simple once you've done it a couple of times and cleaning a paddle is easier than cleaning a yercky filter...


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## alowen474 (27/2/09)

mikem108 said:


> Rip one of these up and stick it loosely into the ball valve
> View attachment 24964


I use two of these and with plugs and pellets works well, but with pellets only, clogged up at half time and a real PITA to get the kettle empty
The plug leaves help strain the crud.


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## hazard (27/2/09)

dr K said:


> I use an immersion chiller and I whirlpool.
> 
> K


So I assume you chill before you whirlpool? No-chillers will be whirl-pooling while wort is hot, is there any evidence that the "binding" of the trub into a nice cone is more effective either hot or cold? Or no difference?

I've only just starting partials, and don't have all the equipment I need as yet. My boil volume is about 15L, I then drop the kettle (with lid on!) into a tub of cold water, and ice if any available. I then pour from kettle into the fermentor, using a sanitised kitchen strainer to catch hops etc. Now even my large kitchen strainer (say 15cm diameter) will clog up with hops (I'm using pellets in the main) and I have to keep stirring to let wort through, so I can't imagine how the hop filters discussed in earlier posts can work - I would imagine they would clog immediately. Is it the trick to use flowers instead of pellets? 

Obviously my kettle doesn't have a tap so i haven't bothered whirlpooling, I need to consider how I go about this business so am picking up good tips from this thread.

hazard


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## fraser_john (27/2/09)

SpillsMostOfIt said:


> For quite a while, I dismissed the whirlpool idea and tried using all sorts of things <snip>
> 
> Frankly, now that I have switched to whirlpooling, I wonder why I piss-farted around for so long trying to filter at all. I'm no whirlpool master, but with my current level of whirlpoolmanship, I get virtually no hot break or hop material <snip>



+1

Though I counter-flow-chill directly into my fermenter, but the whirlpool does prevent a lot of hot-break and hop material from getting into fermenter.

John


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## Jim Botla (27/2/09)

A tip I once got from this site, was once your've removed the clear wort

to drain the remaining trub and hops ( I use pellets thrown in loose) into a bottle leave it to settle utill it 

clears, usually by the time I've cleaned my kettle, then pour off the cleared wort. I use this method all the time

and pick up a couple of extra litres.

Like the others I whirlflock, whirlpool and wait 20 minutes and the wort flows clear.

Cheers Jim


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## jjeffrey (27/2/09)

hazard said:


> So I assume you chill before you whirlpool? No-chillers will be whirl-pooling while wort is hot, is there any evidence that the "binding" of the trub into a nice cone is more effective either hot or cold? Or no difference?



I start my whirlpool hot- right at flame-out, with a paddle, then as it drifts around I connect up a pump/counteflow HEX and back to the kettle via 90degree nozzle I had made to whirlpool in the kettle. Then I cool with cold water, and chill with ice water so, the whirlpool continues at the lower temps an I chill whilst I whirlpool. In the past, though, I used to whirlpool by hand in the kettle and it seemed to work ok. My mate whirlpools on his stove in his pot then lets it come to rest in a sink filled with water. Cone still forms up ok, you just have to watch how quick you draw off.


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## mickoz (27/2/09)

jjeffrey said:


> I start my whirlpool hot- right at flame-out, with a paddle, then as it drifts around I connect up a pump/counteflow HEX and back to the kettle via 90degree nozzle I had made to whirlpool in the kettle. Then I cool with cold water, and chill with ice water so, the whirlpool continues at the lower temps an I chill whilst I whirlpool. In the past, though, I used to whirlpool by hand in the kettle and it seemed to work ok. My mate whirlpools on his stove in his pot then lets it come to rest in a sink filled with water. Cone still forms up ok, you just have to watch how quick you draw off.



Doesn't whirpooling with a pump stir up all the trub or does it stay sitting in the centre of the kettle?

Mick


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## hoohaaman (27/2/09)

SpillsMostOfIt said:


> For quite a while, I dismissed the whirlpool idea and tried using all sorts of things - the most successful being a ladies' lingerie wash bag that had a very fine weave and worked better than a hop sock for pellets.
> 
> Frankly, now that I have switched to whirlpooling, I wonder why I piss-farted around for so long trying to filter at all. I'm no whirlpool master, but with my current level of whirlpoolmanship, I get virtually no hot break or hop material into the cube. What little does make it through settles onto the bottom of the cube and stays there. I tend to leave about half a litre or less in the cube and surprisingly little in the kettle.
> 
> As jjeffrey points out, it is really simple once you've done it a couple of times and cleaning a paddle is easier than cleaning a yercky filter...




+1 Yep muck around with complicated,messy alternatives.Finally bit the bullet and whirlpooled,simply and elegant.

Leaves less then a 250ml glass of wort and all hot break and trub B)


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## jjeffrey (28/2/09)

mickoz said:


> Doesn't whirpooling with a pump stir up all the trub or does it stay sitting in the centre of the kettle?



yes, it can do: it's taken me a few goes to get the nozzle right. As Dr. K said, the trick is to introduce the wort tangentally, and at the right velocity. My whirlpool nozzle is a 1/2" tube in a long radius 90degree bend, so it returns the wort parallel to the wall of the vessel. I'll go out later, take a photo and post it. 

There's been lots of studies done on whirlpool design, and there are lots of variants- usually with regard to the shape of the bottom of the whirlpool and the area where the cone collects. The general concensus is that the velocity of the tangentally returning wort needs to be in the range of 2-3 m/s (off the top of my head- I'll retrieve a citation for this figure when I post a photo later). Different studies and organisations debate the exact rate, and it is dependant on the size and shape of the whirlpool, as well as how high up the nozzle should be. 

I was aiming for 2.5m/s, but for a 1/2" tube this works out to close to 40 L/min, which is a pretty big flow. I can only do 15 L/min, so I need to start it moving with the paddle first. I've found pump only from start to be ineffective in my setup, but once it's moving the rate I supply it back seems to keep it going nicely.

The other thing about pumping is eddy formation, which tends to disturb the cone, rather than help it form. Eddies or vortices are the little mini whirlpools you get that trail the paddle, or your hand as you move it through a body of liquid (or air for that matter- you just can't see it). Internals in a whirlpool are bad, because they shed eddies. The jet from the return nozzle can also induce eddies, which makes the return port/nozzle, velocity, and the operation of the whirlpool important. The whirlpools that I've studied in micros and big breweries use a pump to get the whole volume in the vessel moving. Once it's up to speed, they turn of the pump and let it sit for a "whirlpool rest". Once the pump is off, the flow inside the vessel becomes laminar (no eddies) and it forms the cone then, gently slowing down to a stop. Because DMS can continue to be formed above 60degrees, usually the wort is cooled during the recirculation step.


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## Jakechan (28/2/09)

Ive given up on trub, the lot just goes in the fermenter....


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## clean brewer (4/3/09)

I just used a tea ball for the first time for this, just made a hole large enough on one side, then placed over the pick-up tube, worked pretty good, I had alot of trub, orange peel and cori seeds in the kettle this time...  The cube looks clearer than normal or maybe its juist the Wit??


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## Mantis (6/3/09)

Take this reply with a grain of salt eh. 
I have only done 3 ag biab brews in my 50L pot and whirlpooled them after flameout for no chilling. I get a good cone of trub/break each time and have got a pretty good clear runoff into the cubes. 
My pickup was to far into the pot and I lost maybe 2L of wort, but have now fixed this so that the pickup is right at the bottom edge of the pot. 
Tommorows brew will tell


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## technocat (7/3/09)

fraser_john said:


> +1
> 
> Though I counter-flow-chill directly into my fermenter, but the whirlpool does prevent a lot of hot-break and hop material from getting into fermenter.
> 
> John


Yeah I do the same as John and it works for me


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