# Using Two Cans



## keef12345 (15/11/07)

I have seen a few recipes on the forums and saw a few posts on the use of using two kit cans. 

Are the cans added to 23 ltre batch or is it double the liquid. 

What does using two tins do to the batch? 

Using combinations of different tins seems confusing....Did not want to try something and get a dud.


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## Tyred (15/11/07)

Basic toucan is two kits to make up 23 litres of wort. The two kits mean that it is mainly all malt used in the brew. 

This brew will also have a higher bitterness than a normal brew, but that will depend on the kits used. The reasoning for using different kits is to get one that has a relatively lower bitterness and one the has a moderate bitterness so that the combination of the two will not leave you with something so bitter that it will be difficult to drink. From the various threads that I have seen on here, most people use both kit yeasts to ferment with.

I made up a toucan using coopers real ale and coopers stout with 500g malt extract. I used US56 (I think) dry yeast. It's quite drinkable, but a little bitter for my taste after 3 months. I'll keep having a bottle every month or so to see how the taste changes over that period. 

Searching for toucan or twocan may also lead to a large amount of information. I recall a thread called 'Battle of the toucans' or something like that, that seemed to have some more information about bitterness levels and general information about the brews.


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## Kleiny (16/11/07)

keef just run a search im sure that there are plenty of 2 can recipes on here

give one a go 

thats why we home brew to experiment


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## Fourstar (16/11/07)

If you dont want that extra bitterness you could go all liquid K&K equivalent with a can of your favourite kit and some LME. I believe the Morgans brand is 1.5KG so you will probably be hitting approx 50% ABV if you attenuate correctly and best of all... NO CANE SUGAR!

i doubt you could screw up mixing two cans together. It might be an interesting kind of brew and you could brew in 'almost' any style. E.g. wheat+pilsner could yield a weizen (even thou it would be not true to style as it would be less than 50% wheat)

Or

Mix a porter and pale ale may yield interesting amber ale! Choose your yeast separately and it will be English or American! :beerbang: 

A few options are there for you but you would have ALLOT more control if you went unhoped LME chose your own hops and a small amount of specialty grain (some choc malt or crystal etc) and start doing partials by steeping! Best step i ever made to steer away from kits. Best end result you'll get besides going AG. Nothings easier than dunking grain like a tea bag or 'mini mashing' in a 5L pot.

Cheers!


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## Grasshopper (18/11/07)

The advice on this thread is good. Basically the second can stands in for sugar or added malt (as compared to original instructions). I tried a toucan using Coopers Stout + Coopers Bitter. Lets just say it was a much too bitter. Quite weird. Next time I'll add a "weaker" can as the second one.


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## OzBeer_MD (28/11/07)

Hmmm I should read this forum before experimenting. In an effort to try and get a slightly higher Alcohol content from my new keg setup, I just put down my first twocan tonight. Two cans of coopers bavarian larger with 1Kg of Coopers Brew Enhancer 1. I only used one of the yeast sachets. OG is 1.071. Any tips for this newbie now she's underway?

Doc_D


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## recharge (29/11/07)

Doc_D said:


> Hmmm I should read this forum before experimenting. In an effort to try and get a slightly higher Alcohol content from my new keg setup, I just put down my first twocan tonight. Two cans of coopers bavarian larger with 1Kg of Coopers Brew Enhancer 1. I only used one of the yeast sachets. OG is 1.071. Any tips for this newbie now she's underway?
> 
> Doc_D


At the very least id go chuck the other yeast in there


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## clarkey7 (29/11/07)

You shouldn't muck with it too much, but I think you'd better pitch the second lot of yeast immediately.

All those fermentables might be a bit much on 1 X Coopers dry yeast sachet.

Also - wouldn't recommend drving anywhere after downing a tallie of the stuff. It's going to have some kick.

PB


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## The King of Spain (29/11/07)

Doc_D said:


> Hmmm I should read this forum before experimenting. In an effort to try and get a slightly higher Alcohol content from my new keg setup, I just put down my first twocan tonight. Two cans of coopers bavarian larger with 1Kg of Coopers Brew Enhancer 1. I only used one of the yeast sachets. OG is 1.071. Any tips for this newbie now she's underway?
> 
> Doc_D



Not my thing, but if easy is your way, for the next one try some Dry Malt Extract (DME), some "proper" yeast and isohops (liquid hops) to save on a boil - all available from AHB sponsers.


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## microbe (29/11/07)

Doc_D said:


> Hmmm I should read this forum before experimenting. In an effort to try and get a slightly higher Alcohol content from my new keg setup, I just put down my first twocan tonight. Two cans of coopers bavarian larger with 1Kg of Coopers Brew Enhancer 1. I only used one of the yeast sachets. OG is 1.071. Any tips for this newbie now she's underway?
> 
> Doc_D



Drink with care - using this calculator it's going to come out at around 8%. I don't think that you'll need more yeast but don't take that as gospel. Hope it's a good one.

Cheers,

microbe


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## OzBeer_MD (29/11/07)

Thanks for the quick responses guys, I just went a pitched the second satchet. Positive pressure on the airlock both before and after. Will see how it goes. I didnt want to experiment with any Morgans or Fresh worts, so I went to the Supermarket and grabbed the 2 cans. Wasnt aware that the idea was to use two DIFFERENT kits. 

I have only been brewing since late September, bought the fermenter kit from the Local HBS, did the included Coopers Pilsner OK (for a first timer) and got the Keg setup that my wife bought me as a birthday present, going along. (I have skipped bottling - straight to the modified fridge) Have since tried the Brewcraft 'Crown Larger' kit, too young/green for my liking, and am currently drinking the St Peters Aussie Pale Ale (Fresh Wort) , turned out quite nice, but all of these beers have been around 3.3 - 3.5% ABV (by my calculations and lack of slured speech) So thought while the Blue Mountain larger is conditioning in Keg#2 and the St Peters 'Larger' is in the secondary that I'd get experimental with increased fermentables.

Thanks again for the advice.

Doc_D


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## Hutch (29/11/07)

microbe said:


> it's going to come out at around 8%. I don't think that you'll need more yeast but don't take that as gospel. Hope it's a good one.



Definitely pitch he second yeast - the higher OG requires a far greater pitching-rate, which is just not possible from one 7gm packet. Even 2 sachets is underpitching.
Also, if the final gravity ends up a little high (which it might do) you can always give it a good shake to rouse the yeast to help get the final points down.


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## sid (29/11/07)

Doc_D said:


> I have only been brewing since late September, bought the fermenter kit from the Local HBS, did the included Coopers Pilsner OK (for a first timer) and got the Keg setup that my wife bought me as a birthday present, going along. (I have skipped bottling - straight to the modified fridge) Have since tried the Brewcraft 'Crown Larger' kit, too young/green for my liking, and am currently drinking the St Peters Aussie Pale Ale (Fresh Wort) , turned out quite nice, but all of these beers have been around 3.3 - 3.5% ABV (by my calculations and lack of slured speech) So thought while the Blue Mountain larger is conditioning in Keg#2 and the St Peters 'Larger' is in the secondary that I'd get experimental with increased fermentables.
> 
> Thanks again for the advice.
> 
> Doc_D



Hey ya Doc_D.

watch those coverter packs that the brewcraft store sell's, If your using them, thats what's giving you the low 3.5% alchohol, I had the same happen to me when i started. If you want to use converter's throw in a bit more dextrose (.5kg) and the % alchohol will be better. Can use some malt extract as well to bump up the alchohol and give more body to the beer.
Then you'll happy to know, slurred speech will return along with a funny homebrew grin.


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## RobboMC (29/11/07)

Doc_D said:


> Thanks for the quick responses guys, I just went a pitched the second satchet. Positive pressure on the airlock both before and after. Will see how it goes. I didnt want to experiment with any Morgans or Fresh worts, so I went to the Supermarket and grabbed the 2 cans. Wasnt aware that the idea was to use two DIFFERENT kits.
> 
> 
> Doc_D




Check out this link:

http://www.coopers.com.au/homebrew/makeBee...d=7&bid=115

Coopers actually have this recipe on their HB web site, although with dry malt instead of Brew Enhancer.
They state to pitch both yeast sachets. You may find it's a bit too bitter, 
this is just my idea, but perhaps add another 500g of dry malt dissolved in BOILING water
so it's all clean and cooled BEFORE adding, with maybe an extra litre or two of BOILED AND COOLED water.

This will bring up the malt content too offset some of that bitterness as well as thin out the bitterness that's there.
Unfortunately there's not much malt in Enhancer 1, if any. 

Make sure it ferments right out, it's gonna take a while depending on your temperature.

It may have been somewhat of an accident, but you're going to get one heck of a beer when this is done.
1071 is a perfect OG for Bock, right on the style guideline.
May take some months in bottles to be at it's best.

Bavarian is one of the few kits that comes with true lager yeast, so get it as cold as you can manage
in this heat. I did one in June at 13 deg now worries, I just wasn't game to add the second can.

Let us know how it comes out, I make a Bock each winter and this might be something to try if it works.


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## OzBeer_MD (29/11/07)

RobboMC said:


> Check out this link:
> 
> http://www.coopers.com.au/homebrew/makeBee...d=7&bid=115
> 
> ...



Thanks for the link Robbo, maybe there is hope  I had to go out tonight with the family and dont have any malt to add now, but when I read your post on the way out the door, I grabbed a pretty large Gel pack (one of these big Willow ones the size of an esky lid) from the freezer and whached it on the lid of the fermenter under the towel that I keep over it. The Bock OG is good news, wasn't used to seeing the hydrometer sticking out of the tube that far  but hey this is an experiment in 'more fermentables'. 

The air lock is very busy and when I came home the house smelled of eggs. 

How did your 'onecan' Bavarian turn out? 

Doc_D


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## KGB (30/11/07)

Doc_D said:


> Thanks for the quick responses guys, I just went a pitched the second satchet. Positive pressure on the airlock both before and after. Will see how it goes. I didnt want to experiment with any Morgans or Fresh worts, so I went to the Supermarket and grabbed the 2 cans. Wasnt aware that the idea was to use two DIFFERENT kits.
> 
> Doc_D



Nothing wrong with a double up of the same can, like someone posted earlier, its all about experimentation. A common toucan is to grab two cans of whatever cheap goop is on special at the supermarket and throw them in. It usually makes a quick, drinkabe beer with as little effort as possible.
I'm just finishing off a keg of toucan made using two brigalow lager kits (Big W) and 500g dex that I had already opened and wanted to use up. Quite a decent drop IMO considering the effort and cost.


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## OzBeer_MD (8/12/07)

Apologies for hijacking this thread. I'm thinking of racking this coopers bavarian Larger 'toucan' to the secondary tomorrow. I am out of finings, and i think that by looking at the crud on the bottom of the fermenter that I should grab some and add them with a few teaspoons of sugar when doing the transfer. The air lock activity seemed to stop a few days ago but boy she was angry on days 2 and 3


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## OzBeer_MD (10/12/07)

Hutch said:


> , if the final gravity ends up a little high (which it might do) you can always give it a good shake to rouse the yeast to help get the final points down.



I'm planning to give this bavarian toucan a short stint in the secondary, just took a reading, 1.017. I'm thinking of just racking it with the finings. Any thoughts? Should I shake it up or be happy with 7.4% ABV?

Bracing myself for razor blade bitterness, I tasted the hydrometer sample and was pleasantly surprised, strong, but I imagine drinkable in small quantities. (or does more bitterness come after chilling and 24 hours at 40psi?) 

Any thoughts / comments appreciated. 

Doc_D
_ I think I like this home brewin _
(Must do a signature at some point)


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## Fatgodzilla (10/12/07)

Doc_D said:


> I'm planning to give this bavarian toucan a short stint in the secondary, just took a reading, 1.017. I'm thinking of just racking it with the finings. Any thoughts? Should I shake it up or be happy with 7.4% ABV?
> 
> Bracing myself for razor blade bitterness, I tasted the hydrometer sample and was pleasantly surprised, strong, but I imagine drinkable in small quantities. (or does more bitterness come after chilling and 24 hours at 40psi?)
> 
> ...




I haven't kegged a toucan but made a few. Never found one I liked. But all were heaps better after a long rest. It's summer - how ya gonna keg a beer and drink in small quantities ?


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## OzBeer_MD (10/12/07)

Fatgodzilla said:


> I haven't kegged a toucan but made a few. Never found one I liked. But all were heaps better after a long rest. It's summer - how ya gonna keg a beer and drink in small quantities ?



 Very good question. Even though my fridge is only setup for 2 corny kegs, i bought a third yesterday. I suspect that 'toucan' might be out on its own for a while.


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## OzBeer_MD (17/12/07)

RobboMC said:


> Check out this link:
> 
> Bavarian is one of the few kits that comes with true lager yeast, so get it as cold as you can manage
> in this heat. I did one in June at 13 deg now worries, I just wasn't game to add the second can.
> ...



Robbo,

IT WORKED! 

I served up the toucan (called it 'Deck the Halls' 7.5%ABV) at a party here on Saturday night (got it chilled and gassed just in time) and got rave reviews, nice amber colour, lots of flavour, nothing too over the top (I expected this one to be very bitter, but it wasnt) I had to switch to another keg towards the last half of the party so I'd have some for myself later in the week. Theres about a quarter to a third of the keg left. Thanks for the advice on the temp, switching ice packs on the fermenter for the fermentation period must have helped, I have another larger in a keg ATM that is a bit too fruity. Must remember to do largers in lower temps (and the ice gel packs) .

Oh and with the toucan, no headache in the morning! Gotta love that!

Cheers,

Doc_D


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## vchead (18/12/07)

I made the mistake in my second toucan brew of adding hops to the fermenter. 

It was a Homebrand Lager toucan and as I was absent mindedly doing my preps, as a matter of habit I boiled up some Saaz and added it to the brew. Think I use US-56 ale yeast.

All went well until I opened the first bottle 3 months later and my mouth nearly turned inside out from the bitterness. I have tasted sweeter lemons. 

It has calmed down over time but is still quite tart. Not the first choice off the shelf but drinkable. Lesson for me was 'don't add additional hops to a toucan hopped extract brew'

Rod


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## RobboMC (18/12/07)

Doc_D said:


> How did your 'onecan' Bavarian turn out?
> 
> Doc_D



My 'one can' Bavarian came out a pretty good nice tasting beer, though a bit to low in the ABV dept for a true Bock.
It was my first go at 'real lager' but I only managed to get it down to 13 deg. It won't last long as I'm half
way through the bottles already.


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## KGB (19/12/07)

Rodders said:


> I made the mistake in my second toucan brew of adding hops to the fermenter.
> 
> It was a Homebrand Lager toucan and as I was absent mindedly doing my preps, as a matter of habit I boiled up some Saaz and added it to the brew. Think I use US-56 ale yeast.
> 
> ...



If you dry hopped late in the ferment using hops with a low Alpha level you should be able to get a little aroma out of it without greatly increasing the bitterness.


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## haysie (19/12/07)

Doc_D said:


> Robbo,
> 
> IT WORKED!
> 
> ...



how do you do that? you either under 30, shit beer anyway, or you let all your mates drink it ....
i experience a hangover, kit.extract,allgrain.,commercial, some worse than others whenever i have a session, maybe a l;ittle less than commercial, however i think its all in the beerholder (am 40 bytheway)


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## tk75 (19/12/07)

Now I haven't been brewing for long, but I have studied much to do on the subject(read my profile and you'll find out why  )...
My suggestions for a 2can brew...
1. If using 2 different cans, select the most bitter can and BOIL IT!! 30 mins is probably all's needed.
2. Use one packet of yeast but make a STARTER of at least 500ml, even 1L could be quite good too(plenty of articles on here how to do it)

I did a 2can of Cooper's lager(here) and it came out bloody fantastic!! When I do it again the only thing I will add is aroma hops, nothing else.


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## OzBeer_MD (20/12/07)

haysie said:


> how do you do that? you either under 30, shit beer anyway, or you let all your mates drink it ....
> i experience a hangover, kit.extract,allgrain.,commercial, some worse than others whenever i have a session, maybe a l;ittle less than commercial, however i think its all in the beerholder (am 40 bytheway)



I'm 35, I had plenty of water before the party, and a couple of waters before going to bed and although there was about 14 odd litres consumed, it was a group effort (I probably had 7 or 8 schooners) The week before I went out to my folks for dinner and bought some coopers Sparkling ale, had 5, woke with a bad headache. I think this recent experience is what prompted me to comment on the lack of headache last Sunday morning. 

On the "shit beer anyway" comment. I suppose its all relative, this was an off-the-cuff experiment, the first time I have bought kits from the supermarket, and my expectations were not high. Guests that usually drink Pilsner Urquell and sometimes do their own home-brew were coming up to me and commenting on how it was a 'good beer', as a newbie, thats all I needed . I had a BlueMountain larger and a fresh wort larger on other kegs as an alternative (not sure why so much larger and no ales) 

BTW Haysie, have you tried taking 2 Paracetamols before you go to bed? (if you can remember to) That's helped me out before.

Doc_D


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## geoffi (20/12/07)

Here's a thought for the toucans...

If you add up the cost of a couple of cans, it comes out at about 2/3 the cost of an all-grain wort kit.

So for an extra 1/3 of the cost, you get a beer that is, by my calculations, 100/3 better.

Wort considering...


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## OzBeer_MD (20/12/07)

Geoffi said:


> Here's a thought for the toucans...
> 
> If you add up the cost of a couple of cans, it comes out at about 2/3 the cost of an all-grain wort kit.
> 
> ...


No doubt True, but considering I started brewing in October, I thought I might leave the 'hard work' bit to the kit manufacturers until experience, confidence, processes etc build up. So far so good. Besides, I knocked this one up at about 10pm one night while the kids were asleep and havent had to even use the cooktop in brewing yet  (let alone buy a burner, tun etc) 

Fair call though Geoffi, I suspect a BIAB or something might be on the cards for the second half of 2008.


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## petesbrew (20/12/07)

Geoffi said:


> Here's a thought for the toucans...
> 
> If you add up the cost of a couple of cans, it comes out at about 2/3 the cost of an all-grain wort kit.
> 
> ...


Let's not go there again, Geoffi.
Some of us either don't have the time & equipment, and some of us just want to do a toucan for the hell of it.


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## geoffi (20/12/07)

Doc_D said:


> No doubt True, but considering I started brewing in October, I thought I might leave the 'hard work' bit to the kit manufacturers until experience, confidence, processes etc build up. So far so good. Besides, I knocked this one up at about 10pm one night while the kids were asleep and havent had to even use the cooktop in brewing yet  (let alone buy a burner, tun etc)
> 
> Fair call though Geoffi, I suspect a BIAB or something might be on the cards for the second half of 2008.



I'm actually referring to fresh wort kits that you buy in plastic cubes from your local HBS. It's actually less work than using cans, as you don't need to even dissolve anything...just chuck 'em in and pitch the yeast. Even unscrewing the lid is easier than opening a can.


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## OzBeer_MD (20/12/07)

Geoffi said:


> I'm actually referring to fresh wort kits that you buy in plastic cubes



I dont think I was the only one thrown by your use of the words "All Grain" 

I have done 2 fresh worts already, (I think I mentioned that I had a fresh wort larger made up for the party last Saturday night, just in case the toucan experimant didn't come off) very straight forward. I suspoect that I'll do more, however comparing a fresh wort to a toucan is apples and oranges. I dont know of any 7.5%ABV Dark Larger Fresh Worts available in my area.

Doc_D


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## RobboMC (20/12/07)

Doc_D said:


> The Bock OG is good news, wasn't used to seeing the hydrometer sticking out of the tube that far  but hey this is an experiment in 'more fermentables'.
> 
> 
> Doc_D




Hey Doc,

Welcome to the world of truly good beer above 6% ABV. FG 1017 is absolutely smack on for Traditional Bock
and 7.4% is superb. No wonder your keg got emptied! Your guests must have been, well, legless.

I no style expert but check this link:

http://www.bjcp.org/styles04/Category5.html

When I started brewing I thought beer was just Tooyees, VB and Coopers Sparling Ale was my beer heaven.
In 3 years I have learned about a whole higher quality of beers like Bock and Extra Special Bitter.

My brewing advisor reckons you can't make decent beer below 5 or 6%. His wife does all the driving, lucky man.

Anyway, thanks for the recipe, it's got me on the way to my '1085' Doppelbock coming in June.

And yes, when the hydrometer sticks way up out of the tube on the OG, you have good beer on the way!


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## Deanodriver (27/12/07)

Hmm, you've got me worried that my toucan will be too bitter.

I have a Coopers Draught and a Coopers Dark Ale with 50g of EKG (for aroma, so only a short boil) and some Safale S-04 yeast. Am I going to get something too bitter or not?


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## QldKev (27/12/07)

Doc_D said:


> BTW Haysie, have you tried taking 2 Paracetamols before you go to bed? (if you can remember to) That's helped me out before.
> 
> Doc_D




Do a search on here, I would not recommend using Panadol with alcohol; asprin is much safer.

QldKev


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## OzBeer_MD (28/12/07)

QldKev said:


> Do a search on here, I would not recommend using Panadol with alcohol; asprin is much safer.
> 
> QldKev


Thanks for the Tip


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## gerald (7/1/08)

just did a 2 can with coopers lager + coopers bitter. boiled the bitter one with 1L of water + 200grams of dextrose for 10mins.

it smells like it will turn out pretty bitter. i also used 25L of water....somewhat by accident, but im sure that wont hurt it.

did a yeast starter with both packets and it was going mental while the wort was at 30*C so i pitched it then. its got some ice cubes + old t-shirt around it and its in my cellar (around 21*C) so should be down to low 20's in 8 hours or so. its definitly gonna be dropping down to lower temps.

yup, not sure how it will turn out but im going to melb tomorrow for a week so i wanted to get out done so when i got home i could bottle it the day after. yay, this is my first 2 can :-D

what do yas recon?

the OG was 1042? i thought it was kinda low?


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## OzBeer_MD (8/1/08)

gerald said:


> just did a 2 can with coopers lager + coopers bitter. boiled the bitter one with 1L of water + 200grams of dextrose for 10mins.
> 
> it smells like it will turn out pretty bitter. i also used 25L of water....somewhat by accident, but im sure that wont hurt it.
> 
> ...



Looks like youve gone to some effort, should turn out fine IMHO. 

I put down my first brew since the toucan 2 days ago, a coopers draught with a Hersbrucker hops teabag, the krausen went through the airlock (blocked it at first had to swap air locks - might be infected - hope not) so maybe watch for that if you dont have much headspace after putting 26 litres in your fermenter. The Airlock gets pretty angry  . with a toucan from my limited experience.

Lettuce know how it goes. I'll be doing more after reading this thread and making my first.

MD


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## RobboMC (8/1/08)

haysie said:


> how do you do that? you either under 30, shit beer anyway, or you let all your mates drink it ....
> i experience a hangover, kit.extract,allgrain.,commercial, some worse than others whenever i have a session, maybe a l;ittle less than commercial, however i think its all in the beerholder (am 40 bytheway)




In my year of Organic Chemistry the professor did a session on the chemistry of a hangover.
Most of the hangover effect ( not all though ) is simply dehydration. Any water you can consume
before you go to bed will help. wine drinkers I know go one water for one glass of wine.

At least 2 schooners of water at bedtime makes a big difference.

At least home brew has few of the chemical nasties that come in commercial wine, making a decent morning
easier to achieve. Or do what i do and drink the beer in moderation, enjoying a long neck each night or so
and not having 'sessions' that deplete the fridge stocks.


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## Fatgodzilla (8/1/08)

RobboMC said:


> Or do what i do and drink the beer in moderation, enjoying a long neck each night or so
> and not having 'sessions' that deplete the fridge stocks.



But where's the fun in that !!!!


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