# Hop confusion



## philmud (8/5/13)

Hi guys, I am planning on making a version of this recipe http://aussiehomebrewer.com/recipe/1458-parched-as-bro-pale-ale/ soon & am a bit confused by the hop info. The recipe author says the IBU info is correct, but the variety he uses is galaxy. Three fairly modest additions fine the recipe an IBU of 11ish, which I assume is just incorrect.

The galaxy at G&G are 14.9%AA (his were 5.5%, which sounds wrong too). Am I right? Is the hop info in that recipe way out? I want to brew something higher in IBU than 11ish - maybe around a standard APA like LCPA, so between 35 - 40. Are there any rules of thumb for designing balanced hop schedules? I've had a google but there is a shed load of info. 

Would something like this work (IBUs calculated using brewmajig app, may be rough)

10g at 60 mins (14 IBU)
10g at 30 mins (11 IBU)
20g at 10 mins (10 IBU)


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## Pickaxe (9/5/13)

Without reading the recipe you refer to, IBUs and hop schedules are more relative to:
Volume of boil
SG of Volume
Volume of final ferment
and the other factors of fermentables and yeast etc...
it's all a fine balance.

All of these are relative. Are you an AG brewer or Extract? Ibus are also something entirely relative. Best info I got given for home brew was to get a landmark for my own brewery at home and go by taste and experience. Grab Ians spreadhseet for Kit Extract or Partial is available now. helps a lot, or grab Beersmith. Other guys will comment on recipe suitability. Galaxy is a doosy, and can be very strong.

Its all about volumes. That may sound vague, but what is your plan? Be more precise and the old guard here will offer help. Be specific.


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## philmud (9/5/13)

Ok, typing this on my phone, so I apologise if its not quite right.

Grain Bill:

5.00kg Joe White Ale Malt
0.50kg wheat malt
0.30kg caraaroma
0.25kg Simpsons crystal pale
0.20kg carapils

(Proposed hops schedule)
10g Galaxy (14.9%AA) - 60 min
10g Galaxy (14.9% AA) - 30 min 
20g Galaxy ((14.9%AA) - 10 min

Yeast: 1 x packet of rehydrated Notto

How accurate it is, I have no idea, but Brewmajig tells me to expect the following:

OG: 1.059 (assuming 75% efficiency, what I got last time)
FG: 1.015

ABV: 5.76%
IBU: 35 (though I may no-chill, so will be higher).

I BIAB, and plan on putting these things into the very excellent BIAB spreadsheet on these pages to get a more precise idea of what to expect - happy for any recipe feedback - I am brewing this so I have something that turns around quick and is enjoyable for anyone who likes the style - not wanting anything avant garde by any means . 

Cheers and let me know if I left anything out.

EDIT: I have ordered the grain already & will be cracked & put in one bag (could possibly call this morning & alter) but otherwise, it's a done deal.


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## lukiferj (9/5/13)

Some people say that galaxy too early in the boil leaves a harsh bitterness. I've only tried it later in the boil. At 10 minutes it's delicious. Otherwise recipe looks fine. Carapils might be surplus to your needs.


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## Donske (9/5/13)

I've found that my all Galaxy pale ale takes a couple of weeks longer than my cascade/amarillo or cascade/simcoe pale ales to hit it's peak, early on it's almost overpowering grapefruit and harsh bitterness, once it mellows a bit though it's probably my favourite home brew for a hot day, just ridiculously easy drinking and refreshing.

Then again, I use a bit over double the amount of hops as what this recipe calls.


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## philmud (9/5/13)

Pickaxe, by "landmark", do you mean use your mistakes to guide your next brew? That is good advice, but I also want to avoid 23L of in drinkable beer. I learned about AA% that way!

Lukiferj - I could grab a different hop for the first addition to the same IBU - would a noble hop be best?

The carapils (carsfoam) was in the first recipe, & I guess I added wheat for the same reason - will it have a negative impact or should I try & call to can the carapils?


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## philmud (9/5/13)

Donske, what kind of IBUs are you talking, I'm not averse to using more hops, just need to be suitable for my BiL who usually drinks European lagers (though likes LCPA)


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## Yob (9/5/13)

no accounting for taste... both ways :lol:

sorry..


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## lukiferj (9/5/13)

Looks like a decent enough APA recipe. Would use some kind of American hop. Cascade, Centennial, Amarillo, Citra, Simcoe etc to around 30-40 IBU. I would also drop the 30 min addition and use more late hops. eg Under 10 mins.

Try it with this time and try it without next time. Plenty of info around on people's opinions of what they bring to a brew.


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## philmud (9/5/13)

Yob said:


> no accounting for taste... both ways :lol:
> 
> sorry..


Haha! It's funny, when I first started brewing (very recently), replicating a LCPA was high on my list, now, I realise there are more subtle things I prefer in a beer.


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## philmud (9/5/13)

lukiferj said:


> Would use some kind of American hop. Cascade, Centennial, Amarillo, Citra, Simcoe etc to around 30-40 IBU. I would also drop the 30 min addition and use more late hops...


I don't mind this idea. 

Sometimes I see a hop schedule with a lot of small, late additions, like every 5 mins. Does this kind of graduation make much difference? For example, would 5g at 20, 15, 10 and 5 be enormously different from say, 20g at 10?

Appreciate the responses gents.


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## Donske (9/5/13)

Phil Mud said:


> Donske, what kind of IBUs are you talking, I'm not averse to using more hops, just need to be suitable for my BiL who usually drinks European lagers (though likes LCPA)



Bittered to about 35-40 IBUs at 60min then around 25g at 10min, 25g at 0min and 30-40g dry hop in a 20L batch.

As I said though, it's almost undrinkable early, last one took about a month in the keg before hitting it's peak.

I'd probably cut it back a lot if I was brewing a version for someone not into hop forward beers.


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## Nick JD (9/5/13)

Phil Mud said:


> Hi guys, I am planning on making a version of this recipe http://aussiehomebrewer.com/recipe/1458-parched-as-bro-pale-ale/ soon & am a bit confused by the hop info. The recipe author says the IBU info is correct, but the variety he uses is galaxy. Three fairly modest additions fine the recipe an IBU of 11ish, which I assume is just incorrect.


The old Recipe DB had no entry for Galaxy.


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## philmud (9/5/13)

Yeah I know, but the author said the IBU info was correct. Maybe the new DB converted it back to the default IBU for cascade?


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## Lecterfan (9/5/13)

I'd use us05 or BRY-97 over nottingham if you want a beer with plenty of hop character.

I've not experienced 'scrubbing' of hops from BRY-97 like others have (in fact my best APA to date was with BRY97), but have tasted side by side double batches that were fermented with us05 and nottingham in Tony's bright ale and the nottingham had a significantly muted hop character.

Tangential yes, but if you are asking about the hops and the hop character of the beer you are asking about the whole recipe really (albeit unwittingly)...


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (9/5/13)

Lecterfan said:


> I'd use us05 or BRY-97 over nottingham if you want a beer with plenty of hop character.
> 
> I've not experienced 'scrubbing' of hops from BRY-97 like others have (in fact my best APA to date was with BRY97), but have tasted side by side double batches that were fermented with us05 and nottingham in Tony's bright ale and the nottingham had a significantly muted hop character.
> 
> Tangential yes, but if you are asking about the hops and the hop character of the beer you are asking about the whole recipe really (albeit unwittingly)...


This.

I like Notto - fantastic for Faux Lagers and anything with an early addition. But it does scrub hop aroma and flavour a bit.

No experience with BRY97 (it started going big when I wasn't brewing), but I do have some at home, which will be used for an AIPA.


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## Nick JD (9/5/13)

Is BR97 a dried version of 1272?


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## philmud (9/5/13)

I chose the "parched as bro" recipe partly because I have a pack of Notto that needs using. Having said that I don't want to root a brew for the sake of 5 bucks worth of yeast. I have to say, for a yeast people have lots of good things to say about, I'm stumped as to what it's good for - too clean for ester-y beers, strips hop flavour! 

I think a key reason Notto is in the original is for the fast attenuation - I guess that's a trade off with the hop flavour - can I compensate with more late additions?


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## Yob (9/5/13)

yep


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (9/5/13)

Yob said:


> yep


What he said.

Notto is good for clean english beers, faux-lagers (I snuck one past the judges at QABC, it's that good), anything you need done quickly. I reckon barleywine would be a good'un, some stouts/porters.


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## stakka82 (9/5/13)

Nick JD said:


> Is BR97 a dried version of 1272?


I have my suspicions but have not actually looked into it, because the few pales I've done with it have a similar profile, and it floccs big time etc.


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## BobtheBrewer (9/5/13)

Phil Mud said:


> Yeah I know, but the author said the IBU info was correct. Maybe the new DB converted it back to the default IBU for cascade?


Maybe something got lost in the recipe db conversion. I have made this beer using Galaxy with an IBU of 31.4. My hop schedule was
6g Galaxy (12.3% Alpha) @ 60 mins
6g Galaxy @ 30 mins
20g Galaxy @ 5 mins
for a 23 litre batch size. OG 1.044 FG 1.010 ABV4.52% Yeast: Danstar Nottingham
I use Brewmate and no chill. My note: Very nice, a surprise (because I didn't know what all that Galaxy would do. Hope this helps.


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## philmud (11/5/13)

Thanks Bob, I did install brewmate & feel a bit more comfortable with the hopping schedule. I picked up some cascade and assuming no-chill I'm going to go with:

20g cascade (6.7% AA) at 60 mins
5 g galaxy (14.6% AA) at 20 mins
5 g galaxy (14.6% AA) at 15 mins
5 g galaxy (14.6% AA) at 10 mins
5 g galaxy (14.6% AA) at 5 mins
5 g galaxy (14.6% AA) at 0 mins

Should give me around 40 IBU and if I wind up chilling I will up the hop volumes accordingly.

Still haven't decided on a yeast yet. I picked up a sachet of BRY-09 so I've got the option of either now.

I may also dry hop with galaxy and or cascade but will see how it's tasting.

An unrelated question of ettiquette - comparing this to the original recipe (see link in first post), can I claim to be brewing a "parched as bro"?pale ale? My grain bill differs slightly in base malt quantity and I added some wheat, I'm adding a different variety of hops to a single hop recipe and may use a different yeast. I'd hate to bastardise his recipe & misrepresent it, but similarly I don't any to imply its an original brew. Where is the line for recipe originality drawn?


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## lukiferj (11/5/13)

Plenty of info here on not dry hopping with galaxy. Very grassy. Cascade is great for dry hopping.


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## fletcher (11/5/13)

i have a cascade / galaxy APA carbonating now and i added my galaxy hops from 40 minutes onwards, not from 60 given what everyone has said about it. it tastes amazing. i can recommend this if you're using all galaxy in future


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## philmud (11/5/13)

Thanks gents, defo not after grassy beer - will keep galaxy out of the fermenter


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## lukiferj (11/5/13)

I've never tried it at anything other than 10 minute additions. Don't want to waste wort when there are so many people saying too early and it's too bitter or dry hopping and it's too grassy. At 10 mins though, it's delicious. Just need to be more careful with it than other hops.


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## philmud (11/5/13)

Good point, I'm comfortable with a 20, 15 and 10 min addition, but might cut the 5 and 0 and replace with Cascade.


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## lukiferj (11/5/13)

Nice one. Let us know how it turn out.


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## BobtheBrewer (11/5/13)

Phil Mud said:


> An unrelated question of ettiquette - comparing this to the original recipe (see link in first post), can I claim to be brewing a "parched as bro"?pale ale? My grain bill differs slightly in base malt quantity and I added some wheat, I'm adding a different variety of hops to a single hop recipe and may use a different yeast. I'd hate to bastardise his recipe & misrepresent it, but similarly I don't any to imply its an original brew. Where is the line for recipe originality drawn?


I can't remember who posted this recipe, the old data base had the name of the poster. However I would assume that since I had a different recipe that the OP had changed his recipe at a later date. It is quite common for people to improve on/tweak their recipes. They still call it by it's original name so why shouldn't you?


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## Rowy (11/5/13)

[quote name="Phil Mud" post="1030369" timestamp=

An unrelated question of ettiquette - comparing this to the original recipe (see link in first post), can I claim to be brewing a "parched as bro"?pale ale? My grain bill differs slightly in base malt quantity and I added some wheat, I'm adding a different variety of hops to a single hop recipe and may use a different yeast. I'd hate to bastardise his recipe & misrepresent it, but similarly I don't any to imply its an original brew. Where is the line for recipe originality drawn?[/quote]

Who gives a ****! If it tastes god drink it and raise a glass to the bloke who inspired your brew. Talk about PC crap!


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## philmud (11/5/13)

Rowy said:


> Who gives a ****! If it tastes god drink it and raise a glass to the bloke who inspired your brew. Talk about PC crap!


If my brew tastes God, I'll be ******* stoked. I think it's a relevant question though, lots of brew recipes are very similar.


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## Rowy (11/5/13)

Phil Mud said:


> If my brew tastes God, I'll be ******* stoked. I think it's a relevant question though, lots of brew recipes are very similar.


Typo.....my apologies....but again who gives a ****! Brew drink and enjoy........


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## Yob (11/5/13)

You forgot… "wake up… regret"


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## philmud (11/5/13)

Rowy said:


> Brew drink and enjoy........


Wise words! To your health, sir!


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## fletcher (11/5/13)

Phil Mud said:


> If my brew tastes God, I'll be ******* stoked. I think it's a relevant question though, lots of brew recipes are very similar.


if i tweak one but it still has some resemblance to the original, i'll just say 'inspired by ...' or have a reference to it somewhere. it's like any assignment really. give credit where it's due.


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## BobtheBrewer (12/5/13)

Rowy said:


> Who gives a ****! If it tastes god drink it and raise a glass to the bloke who inspired your brew. Talk about PC crap!


Very succinctly put Ray!


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## tazman1967 (26/5/13)

Just brewing Phils version of this now..
Cascade flowers NZ
Galaxy flowers AUS.. naturally..
Going to ferment this with Craftbrewers English Ale yeast at 19d.
The boil smells awesome..


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## philmud (26/5/13)

I bottled mine last night, aroma was very big on passionfruit, taste was good, but not as hoppy as it may have been, but for the Notto - looking forward to tasting it carbonated and conditioned though.
As an aside, I crashed this for 48 hours at 2C (would have left it longer, but need it ready for the long weekend). First time cold crashing and I see what the fuss is about. The yeast cake was so compact! I siphoned the beer off into my bottling bucket & there was pretty much just yeast left in the fermenter. Usually I lose a bit because its just too cloudy to bottle. I'll be keen to see if it's clear in the glass!


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## Pickaxe (29/5/13)

There is no original. Anything we do only contributes to the common good.

I just hope humble geniuses keep innovating so I can learn how to do normal things better and I can feel good about myself and brag to all my mates. Maybe one day I might contribute something to the pool, till then, to quote Les Claypool;

_Hats off to the ones that put it all together
And keep their ducks in line.
Hats off to all the ones that erred before me
And taught me how to survive._

(and make beer.)


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## philmud (30/5/13)

Pickaxe said:


> There is no original. Anything we do only contributes to the common good.
> 
> _Hats off to the ones that put it all together
> And keep their ducks in line.
> ...


Amen! I'm going to start interrogating The Brown Album for all kinds of life lessons.


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## philmud (7/6/13)

Update: I opened a bottle of this last night - not bad, but more late hops defo needed if Notto is the yeast used. I also have had it conditioning at 24C to speed it up ahead of this weekend and there may be some fusels (or my headache may be owing to the fact that it's Friday). How many brewing errors are due to impatience.


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