# Fresh Wort Ipa Not All It's Made Out To Be!



## RetsamHsam (14/2/08)

A couple of weeks ago i purchased a fresh wort IPA, as i haven't had much chance to brew lately stocks are dwindling. I finally got around to putting it down yesterday and was disappointed. Here is why; the blurb about the IPA described it as _"A deep tasting ale very true to its style"_ However when i measured the OG it was only 1.037.. I would have thought a true to style IPA would have an OG of at least 1.060. I only added the reccomended 5 Litres of water, I would have just made it up as 15 Litres if i had of known what the gravity was before hand. Anyone else tried one of these and have any thoughts??


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## geoffi (14/2/08)

Wort kits make good beers, but my one gripe is that some of them are low gravity when diluted as recommended.

FWIW, I've tried a few and found the NNL kits to have the highest gravity, high enough so when diluted they are still 'to style'.



RetsamHsam said:


> A couple of weeks ago i purchased a fresh wort IPA, as i haven't had much chance to brew lately stocks are dwindling. I finally got around to putting it down yesterday and was disappointed. Here is why; the blurb about the IPA described it as _"A deep tasting ale very true to its style"_ However when i measured the OG it was only 1.037.. I would have thought a true to style IPA would have an OG of at least 1.060. I only added the reccomended 5 Litres of water, I would have just made it up as 15 Litres if i had of known what the gravity was before hand. Anyone else tried one of these and have any thoughts??


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## Linz (14/2/08)

a local around here did one when they first came out and it was a ringer of James Squires IPA.

Where did you buy the cube and which make of cube is it???? Ive also heard of mislabelling IPA onto Aust pale type too


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## RetsamHsam (14/2/08)

I got the cube from Dave's HomeBrew, It is one of the one's from the St. Peters Brewery


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## Franko (14/2/08)

Linz said:


> a local around here did one when they first came out and it was a ringer of James Squires IPA.
> 
> Where did you buy the cube and which make of cube is it???? Ive also heard of mislabelling IPA onto Aust pale type too




I wish I still had some left

Franko


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## BOG (14/2/08)

I got my Fesh wort (Brewers Selection) Ammarillo Ale from Dave and found it was actually aussie pale ale. (aka Coopers clone)

Very disapointed. Not daves fault but I suspect the production run was labled badly.

I also did the Celtic Red FWK and found it lacking. Tastes a lot like Cascade Choc Mog Porter.

I've gone off the kits as it just dosn't have the results for the money.
A good kit plus adjuncts seems to turn out beer that's better. 






BOG


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## mckenry (14/2/08)

Hi All,
Thought I'd add my experiences with fresh wort.
I've done the;
Brewers Selection Celtic Red Ale - S.G. 1.037 F.G. 1.006 Yeast: WhiteLabs WLP004 Irish Ale - Good result
Brewers Selection Lager - S.G. 1.040 F.G. 1.013 Yeast: WhiteLabs WLP838 Southern German Lager - Fair to Good result, brewed a bit warm
Brewers Selection Celtic Red Ale - S.G. 1.037 F.G. 1.006 Yeast: WhiteLabs WLP004 - Good result
EzyBrew American Pale Ale - S.G. 1.038 F.G. 1.020 Yeast US-05 - Very Low Alcohol, but good tasting beer. Yeast was good. Active starter. 
Brewers Selection Amarillo Ale - S.G. 1.048 F.G. 1.011 Yeast US-05 This is very good beer

Bottom line: All have had the 5L as per instruction added. Some seem to be lower alcohol than would be expected. Still, pretty happy with the results.


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## blackbock (14/2/08)

I put down the Czech Pilsener two weeks ago and OG undiluted was 13 Brix (about 1.053)

I have seen a whole batch of these babies where the labels were missing altogether. The HBS just guessed at what they were. Perhaps St Peters Brewery needs to look at their label glue.


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## Franko (14/2/08)

I've done the entire Brewers selection range here 2-3 times and haven't got a bad word to say.
It all comes down to quality yeast and temp control I guess

Must also say I'm pretty proud of having my artwork (Brewers selection Label) go Australia wide



Franko


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## blackbock (14/2/08)

It's interesting that they are still being sold with the old ND Brewing logo on them. It's also a pity that the new distributor doesn't appear to have a website, although I have heard good things about his organisation.


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## Gerard_M (14/2/08)

blackbock said:


> It's interesting that they are still being sold with the old ND Brewing logo on them. It's also a pity that the new distributor doesn't appear to have a website, although I have heard good things about his organisation.



Kevin at Kirrawee HBS now owns NDBrewing, label logo & website.
Cheers
Gerard


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## RetsamHsam (14/2/08)

Franko said:


> I've done the entire Brewers selection range here 2-3 times and haven't got a bad word to say.
> It all comes down to quality yeast and temp control I guess
> 
> 
> ...


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## bjl (14/2/08)

I have also done several of this brand fresh wort packs, with varying results.

The first I tried was a Pilsner, brewed with w34/70 yeast at 12 deg, lagered for a month at 1 deg. Tasted great but would not clear even after 2 months in the keg.
I then did the Cerny Pivo which come out great.
I have since done an Amarillo ale, 2 x Hefe's and the lager. The Hefe's are definately the pick of the ones of which I have done. All were brewed at the recommended temps and yeasts.

The main gripe I have with them is I can't get the ales and lagers to clear, even if I use finings, rack, lager etc etc.
However, I am more than pleased with their taste.


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## goatherder (14/2/08)

RetsamHsam, are you sure your hydrometer is reading correctly? I've had problems in the past with gravity and have traced it back to my hydrometer. Check it reads 1.000 in distilled or tap water at the stated calibration temperature and make sure the temperature of the wort you are measuring is as close to the calibration temperature as possible.


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## Darren (14/2/08)

Jeepers,

If they are forgetting to put labels on these, I hope the are remembering to invert at "hot" to ensure sanitation of areas that are not in contact. 

cheers

Darren


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## sah (14/2/08)

Maybe they use a sanitser? B)


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## Darren (14/2/08)

SAH,

Maybe, I dunno. Last report I heard was it was just heat. Anyone in the know care to comment??

cheers

Darren


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## crozdog (15/2/08)

Darren said:


> SAH,
> 
> Maybe, I dunno. Last report I heard was it was just heat. Anyone in the know care to comment??
> 
> ...


Darren, 

FWIW, when ISB toured the St Peters brewery last year, the same practice that they used on the kegs was also used on the cubes ie hot caustic to clean, fresh water rinse then no rinse sanitiser. Once filled, the cubes WERE inverted when hot. Anyway, I don't see what that has to do with the original query re the OG being lower than expected.... so lets not start the "botu-beer" discussion again 

RetsamHsam, I agree with goatherder re testing the hydro - & ensuring the temp you measure at is right. Boil some water, cool to 20 degrees C then ise it to test your hydro.


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## RetsamHsam (16/2/08)

goatherder said:


> Check it reads 1.000 in distilled or tap water at the stated calibration temperature and make sure the temperature of the wort you are measuring is as close to the calibration temperature as possible.



That was the first thing i thought when i got the low reading, I only measured it with tap water but it was close enough to the mark to rule the hydrometer out as the problem


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## Guest Lurker (16/2/08)

crozdog said:


> Boil some water, cool to 20 degrees C then ise it to test your hydro.



I dont get that, why boil water for testing hydros?


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## the_fuzz (16/2/08)

Guest Lurker said:


> I dont get that, why boil water for testing hydros?



To remove everything - this gives a true read or used distilled water


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## Darren (16/2/08)

Guest Lurker said:


> I dont get that, why boil water for testing hydros?




I would have thooght boiling the water would remove water and increase the salt so the reading would be less accurate

cheers

Darren


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## Stuster (16/2/08)

Would the salts in there make any significant difference to a gravity reading? Always wondered the same about refractometers too. :unsure:


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## Darren (16/2/08)

Would depend how much was in their to start with and how much it was boiled


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## Stuster (16/2/08)

Sorry, Darren. I was thinking of non-boiled water, just straight from the tap. The instructions on the refrac say to use distilled water, but I supposed that the small amount of minerals in the water would make any difference (especially with the very soft water here). And thinking about it, if they did, they'd also make the same difference with the wort.


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## Guest Lurker (16/2/08)

Yes, the point I was making was that boiling concentrates the salts and makes the water less suitable for calibrating, unless you are collecting and condensing the steam driven off.

The drinking water standard is 1000 mg/l total dissolved salts, and most cities in Aus provide water well below that although in Perth not that much below.

With 1000 mg/l salts in the water the sg is increased from 1.000 to about 1.001. So tap water is fine, and is slightly better than boiled tap water.

Of course, if you use groundwater from the Eastern Goldfields for your brewing, which can contain up to 7 times more salt than seawater, expect your hydrometer to read about 1.20 in plain water, but the beer wouldnt taste that good.


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## albyone (16/3/08)

bjl said:


> I have also done several of this brand fresh wort packs, with varying results.
> 
> The first I tried was a Pilsner, brewed with w34/70 yeast at 12 deg, lagered for a month at 1 deg. Tasted great but would not clear even after 2 months in the keg.
> I then did the Cerny Pivo which come out great.
> ...



Sorry to bump up an old topic, but bjl, do you remember what your starting and finishing gravities were for the pilsner?

Just curious, because I have one down atm and it started at 1.037 and seems to have stopped at 1.010 - makes for a pretty week beer...

Just wandering if I need to bring it back to 12c to try to ferment off a little more... it spent 4 days at ~21c (Yeah a little too warm - but couldn't help it), 6 days at ~14c and then 5 days at close to 0c

Thanks,
albyone


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## bjl (16/3/08)

albyone said:


> Sorry to bump up an old topic, but bjl, do you remember what your starting and finishing gravities were for the pilsner?
> 
> Just curious, because I have one down atm and it started at 1.037 and seems to have stopped at 1.010 - makes for a pretty week beer...
> 
> ...


 
Albyone,
The Pilsner I did started at 1.040 and finished at 1.010 with the recommended 5l of water added. How much water did you add?

BJL


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## albyone (16/3/08)

bjl said:


> Albyone,
> The Pilsner I did started at 1.040 and finished at 1.010 with the recommended 5l of water added. How much water did you add?
> 
> BJL



Only the 5L specified... Maybe my hydrometer is up the creek... There was talk of temperature of beer when doing the reading - could that affect it? It would have been close to 0 when I did the FG reading.

Albyone


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## albyone (16/3/08)

albyone said:


> Only the 5L specified... Maybe my hydrometer is up the creek... There was talk of temperature of beer when doing the reading - could that affect it? It would have been close to 0 when I did the FG reading.
> 
> Albyone



Just tested it - reads pretty much dead on 1.000 in plain tap water and the same with cold water from the fridge...

...<scratches head>...


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## quadbox (17/3/08)

albyone said:


> Only the 5L specified... Maybe my hydrometer is up the creek... There was talk of temperature of beer when doing the reading - could that affect it? It would have been close to 0 when I did the FG reading.
> 
> Albyone



Well yeah, temperature has a big effect on hydrometer readings. They are only accurate at the specific calibration temperature of the hydrometer in question, typically either 15C or 22C. If your hydrometer's calibrated for 22C, and you're taking a reading of 1010 at 0C, then the true FG's more like 1008.

Similarly your OG's probably out if you werent paying attention to temperature.

There's several calibration tables or correction calculators around, including some online ones as well as the calculations built in to beersmith and promash


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## mckenry (1/4/08)

mckenry said:


> Hi All,
> Thought I'd add my experiences with fresh wort.
> I've done the;
> Brewers Selection Celtic Red Ale - S.G. 1.037 F.G. 1.006 Yeast: WhiteLabs WLP004 Irish Ale - Good result
> ...



As you can see above I had done one Ezybrew American Pale Ale before. I did like this beer a lot even though the Alc was a bit low. Just finished brewing another Ezybrew APA. S.G. 1.050 F.G. 1.020. Yeast Whitelabs WLP001 California Ale. WTF 1.020 again?? :huh: The S.G. 1.050 can be attributed to adding less water this time. 
So, 1.020 using US-05 and WLP001. Anyone fermented out this APA below 1.020?
Points of interest. Temp control is AOK & Hydrometer checked out 1.000 in water. Yeast was 1st generation, activated.
Maybe brewworld.com can shed some light? 
Let me be clear - this beer tastes damn good. So no problems there, just a bit low on Alc, considering an S.G. of 1.050 - if you call 4.0% a bit low.


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## MCT (1/4/08)

RetsamHsam said:


> A couple of weeks ago i purchased a fresh wort IPA, as i haven't had much chance to brew lately stocks are dwindling. I finally got around to putting it down yesterday and was disappointed. Here is why; the blurb about the IPA described it as _"A deep tasting ale very true to its style"_ However when i measured the OG it was only 1.037.. I would have thought a true to style IPA would have an OG of at least 1.060. I only added the reccomended 5 Litres of water, I would have just made it up as 15 Litres if i had of known what the gravity was before hand. Anyone else tried one of these and have any thoughts??



I just did one of these kits (Brewers Selection IPA), and the OG was 1.052 made up to 20 ltrs.
Just thought you might like to know...


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## quadbox (1/4/08)

MCT said:


> I just did one of these kits (Brewers Selection IPA), and the OG was 1.052 made up to 20 ltrs.
> Just thought you might like to know...



That'd make the undiluted og about 1069 if I'm doing my arithmetic right. That'd be a pretty good strong IPA

Anyone brewed one undiluted? Kinda makes it worse value, but it'd be interesting. I was meaning to do a double-undiluted-batch (30-ish litres) of the chocolate porter sometime. It's a fantastic porter diluted to 20L, but I'd like it a bit stronger. EDIT - It's similarly about 1052 diluted iirc


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## beers (1/4/08)

mckenry said:


> As you can see above I had done one Ezybrew American Pale Ale before. I did like this beer a lot even though the Alc was a bit low. Just finished brewing another Ezybrew APA. S.G. 1.050 F.G. 1.020. Yeast Whitelabs WLP001 California Ale. WTF 1.020 again?? :huh: The S.G. 1.050 can be attributed to adding less water this time.
> So, 1.020 using US-05 and WLP001. Anyone fermented out this APA below 1.020?
> Points of interest. Temp control is AOK & Hydrometer checked out 1.000 in water. Yeast was 1st generation, activated.
> Maybe brewworld.com can shed some light?
> Let me be clear - this beer tastes damn good. So no problems there, just a bit low on Alc, considering an S.G. of 1.050 - if you call 4.0% a bit low.



I thought it was just me. 
I kegged one last week when I couldn't get it below 1018 (using US05) - tested with both my hydro & refractometer. I suspect maybe a high mash temp was used?

It can get a little heavy after 1 or 2, which is a bit of a shame, but it's seriously one of the best wort kits I've ever tried.


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## mckenry (2/4/08)

beers said:


> I thought it was just me.
> I kegged one last week when I couldn't get it below 1018 (using US05) - tested with both my hydro & refractometer. I suspect maybe a high mash temp was used?
> 
> It can get a little heavy after 1 or 2, which is a bit of a shame, but it's seriously one of the best wort kits I've ever tried.



Glad (kind of) to see others are getting same result. Next question is; Can something be done about this?


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## sponge (2/4/08)

I have recently bottled a batch of the ND Norwest Ale. Since I have heard the FWK's can be a little light on the old abv, i added 500g of LDME, but forgot to add more hops, so hopefully it wont end up too malty. woops 

A little darker then i hadve imagined, but i spose you get that with american PA's. 

Anyways, I had my OG as 1044 and finished on 1015 using s-04 (HBS didnt have any us05 so they gave me the s04 for cheaper so i wasnt complaining)

Also, two days ago I put down another FWK, this time it was an ND Summer Ale. To get the OG up a little more, I used around 300g of LLME, and 300g of honey. OG started out as 1052 which I was a little happier with. but once again, i forgot to boil up some more hops so once again im hoping it wont end up too sweet. (PS. I used the same yeast trub as the previous FWK mentioned above, I just dumped the new kit on top of it)

But FWK's are too expensive for me. I was just mainly seeing what all they hype was about, so after a couple of months ill give one of the bottles a try


Sponge


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## lagers44 (2/4/08)

Hi Guys just to add my few cents worth.

I did an Ezybrew APA & had similar problems added 5L water + supplied yeast. OG 1.044 FG 1.022.
Emailed Garry and basically we couldn't come up with a reason.

Temps were all OK , airation was good as per my normal method. The only thoughts I have are either the yeast isn't very good ( Garry suggested stirring the wort mid fermentation ) or it had something to do with the amount of trub in the cube , gee there was a lot of muck compared to my clean filtered wort.

Lagers


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## Beejay (2/4/08)

RetsamHsam said:


> I spoke to Dave today and he got in contact with the brewer who stated that the OG of the 15L in the cube should be in the low 1.050's and when diluted it should go down to around 1.043 give or take, not as far as 1.037.



I have only just seen this thread for the first time, but if you use the dilution tool in Beersmith you get the following

15L of wort at 1.050
Add 5L water
Final Specific gravity is 1.038.

Regards,

Brett


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## Beejay (2/4/08)

Homicidal Teddybear said:


> Anyone brewed one undiluted? Kinda makes it worse value, but it'd be interesting. I was meaning to do a double-undiluted-batch (30-ish litres) of the chocolate porter sometime. It's a fantastic porter diluted to 20L, but I'd like it a bit stronger. EDIT - It's similarly about 1052 diluted iirc



Hey HT,

I have considered doing this as well and what has stopped me is my attempts to get my head around what changes apart from OG when you do an undiluted ferment. For example, you will have a higher percentage of non-fermentable sugars in the beer which I would expect to lessen the overall bitterness of the beer. Or am I wrong here? 

Cheers, 


Beejay


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## beers (2/4/08)

lagers44 said:


> Hi Guys just to add my few cents worth.
> 
> I did an Ezybrew APA & had similar problems added 5L water + supplied yeast. OG 1.044 FG 1.022.
> Emailed Garry and basically we couldn't come up with a reason.
> ...



Mine was an APA too. & I used a fresh satchel of US05. Diluted to around 21-21.5L.


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## thrustyrusty (15/4/08)

About 3 weeks ago i received a 'Brewers selection' (ND brewing) wort kit for a present from family, this kit was labeled a 'SUMMER ALE'. The bloke at the brew shop supplied a pack of Safale US05 yeast (which was packaged by the brew shop). I thought It was going to be a tasty refreshing summer ale tasting beer. Suprise suprise when I tased it after fermenting, it had a burnt charcoal, smokey taste. 
Upon research I think this was labeled wrong and actually is a Czech styled Black Lager or Cerny Pivo which was ready for deleviry from july 5th 2007. Bloody hell this beer has been sitting around for 8 months or so & their still selling it. 
Not only the wrong beer but the wrong yeast for that beer! Now i got 19lts of crappy beer. I won't be buying any fresh wort kits for a while.


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## Franko (15/4/08)

thrustyrusty said:


> About 3 weeks ago i received a 'Brewers selection' (ND brewing) wort kit for a present from family, this kit was labeled a 'SUMMER ALE'. The bloke at the brew shop supplied a pack of Safale US05 yeast (which was packaged by the brew shop). I thought It was going to be a tasty refreshing summer ale tasting beer. Suprise suprise when I tased it after fermenting, it had a burnt charcoal, smokey taste.
> Upon research I think this was labeled wrong and actually is a Czech styled Black Lager or Cerny Pivo which was ready for deleviry from july 5th 2007. Bloody hell this beer has been sitting around for 8 months or so & their still selling it.
> Not only the wrong beer but the wrong yeast for that beer! Now i got 19lts of crappy beer. I won't be buying any fresh wort kits for a while.




The cerny pivo is a great beer surely you would have noticed that it was black when you poured it into your fermenter...........


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## thrustyrusty (15/4/08)

Didn't look too much at the colour, it seemed like a average colour for the ales i normally make. Although I didn't realise till I tasted it. I'll prob get used to it in time. 
(My mistake I got it about 4 weeks ago). Just tasted it a few nights ago. But the 'fresh' wort has still been sitting around for 8 months, that can't be good, can it?


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## quadbox (15/4/08)

shouldnt make a difference really, they're airtight containers, and they appear to squeeze out all headspace before sealing the lids.

The "fresh" refers to it not being concentrated, not to a particular timescale


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## sponge (15/4/08)

i tried a norwest ale i bottled on the 31st last nite. i know its a little premature, but curiosity got the better of me

it was quite nice indeed. nicely bitter, and a little darker then expected (but u get that with APA's), but looked great and held a good head for being so young


Bottled that summer ale you were talking about on the 11th, so in a few weeks ill give it a go and see how its coming along. 

Thats my little FWK spree over. I dont think ill buy another one for a while (dont get me wrong, they taste great, i just prefer to 'make from scratch'), unless im really strapped for time.


Sponge


PS. i used the same s04 yeast for both of them


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## thrustyrusty (15/4/08)

It will probably grow on me in time. I suppose its not that bad, i' havnt' really got into that style/flavour of beer. I'll still drink it, sacrilege to waste beer!


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## OzBeer_MD (16/4/08)

thrustyrusty, out of curiosity where was the small white label placed on the cube? The last 3 or so that I have made have had the type label on one of the little flats on the corners. I think that they have realised that they wont rub against other cubes there and fall of in the truck. Last years had them somewhere near the main coloured label as I recall. 

I have just done the norwest, nice drop. Still like the amarillo though :icon_cheers: 

MD


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## dc59 (28/7/08)

Hey brewers 

I just put the Norwest FWK down today, added the recommended 5L of water to the wort and got an OG of 44 which I think is great considering the only other FWK I did, which was the lager, came out at 40.

Just wondering what type of ale it's suppose to be? (not sure what a Norwest ale would be referring to!!) I was given US-05 so I'm guessing an APA, but I think someone said they were given S-04.

Also any ideas what hops have been used, just so I know what to expect.

Thanks, Dave.


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## dmcke109 (28/7/08)

bjl said:


> The main gripe I have with them is I can't get the ales and lagers to clear, even if I use finings, rack, lager etc etc.
> However, I am more than pleased with their taste.



Use polycar and buy yourself a filter. Since I've done this my brews (either AG's or Fresh Worts) come out clear as.


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## sponge (28/7/08)

Dravid said:


> Hey brewers
> 
> I just put the Norwest FWK down today, added the recommended 5L of water to the wort and got an OG of 44 which I think is great considering the only other FWK I did, which was the lager, came out at 40.
> 
> ...



From http://www.ndbrewing.com.au/...

"*Norwest Pale Ale** (American Pale) *- This Pale Ale is all about big Cascade hopped flavour, well-balanced with a big zesty citrus hop aroma, full malt character with a big bitter finish. Try it with the DCL US-56 Dried yeast or White Labs WLP001. _* Comparable Commercial Beer Little Creatures Pale Ale"*_


This was my first FWK and turned out pretty nice. Still not as good as making your own though...

Sponge*
*

EDIT: forgot to turn off the italics... me scuzzy


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## dc59 (28/7/08)

Thanks sponge, I guess I'll found out what it's like in about two weeks.

I love my APA's so it looks like I've got something to look forward to.

Looking back on it Sponge, do you recommend any dry hopping with cascade, or leave it just is?


Dave


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## sponge (28/7/08)

Well i havent had one in a couple of weeks, but i do remember the one i had being fairly hoppy. i have one in the fridge i think, which i should get around to drinking tomorrow night and ill let you know

PS. you may need to remind me, when it comes to little things like this, i fail very badly  . maybe bump this thread sometime tomorrow night....

Sponge


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## Gerard_M (28/7/08)

OK I know a little bit about this topic, have done a few batches, bit of trial & error with some pretty good results. I am not a salesman or retailer anymore so this is not going to help my bank account, but if you follow what I have to say it might just help your beer. Some of you may have noticed that I rarely spruik advice on here, but this is an exception. I have had a gut-full of the crap band-aid cures that get sold off as the latest essential, must have brewing ingredient. polyclar, finnings, filters, they are all just crap. Chuck em in the bin & get some flavour & character back in the glass. Please feel free to put them on eBay, you only have to find somebody as gullable as you were the day you bought them!  

Get a liquid yeast, Wyeast or White Labs it doesn't really matter. Pick out a good flocculator. This little animal is now your new best friend so be nice to him. Liquid yeast are great fun. Yeast propagation is like another hobby inside a hobby. I like to use a few different strains for lagers, but when brewing Ales at home I prefer the WLP005. If you are brewing Lagers the WLP838, is great. Good little floccer with little to no sulphur. (I don't have any experience with Wyeast so go ask a Wyeast retailer what they have that is similar) Oh & when you build a starter, use some AG wort, not that crappy DME, this yeast is your friend, you wouldn't want this yeast to think you are a tightarse on your first date!

Get some control on your fermentation temps. Go at about 18 degrees for an Ale, after you have reached your FG, rack it to a keg & get the @#$%er in the fridge @ about 2 degrees C for a couple of days. Rig a transfer line with 2 disconnects(Out through the liquid out & back in through the liquid out) & push the beer from this keg, using CO2, to another keg that has CO2 in it. Allow it to settle for a couple of hours & then put a head pressure on it. 48 hrs @ 200kpa works in my fridge, I am sure you have got your own ritual. Now go have a look in the racking keg & you will see that the residual yeast is still painted to the bottom of the keg & not in your serving keg. Don't use a freezing cold glass, just a good clean beer glass at room temp works best.

Dried yeasts have their place, it is not in a FWK or an AG brew, I don't even use them to make bread with. Apart from the W34/70 lager, which apparently is no longer available in 11g packs, they are all a waste of money.

OK thats about it, my cuppa tea is stone cold, but worth the sacrafice. If just one person stops using PolyClar & the other clearing agents I will be happy enough.

Cheers
Gerard


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## T.D. (29/7/08)

Gday Gerard,

Each to their own and all that, but I must say I agree entirely with your comments. I have used a few good floccing yeasts in the past and this really is all you need if clear beer is important to you. Like you said, something like WLP005 is a great way to go. Whenever Ive used this yeast (or similar) Ive ended up with crystal clear beer, with no artificial aids whatsoever (despite having a heap of whirfloc at home, I invariably forget to use it). Not only do you get the advantages of using a good liquid yeast (ie flavour), you also avoid wasting your hard-earned on fads and gizmos like polyclar and filters. From my experience in the wine industry I can say without question that these things DO affect flavour. When producing wine or beer commercially though, aesthetics are important, and this is why they do it. For home brewers its much different. Personally, Id rather retain some genuine character in the beer instead of stripping it bare, all in the name of making it look good. Whats more, its effectively mimicking the processes of the very same commercial producers who we so often criticise and use as a justification for brewing good beer at home in the first place! I find it all a bit contradictory :huh:


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## RetsamHsam (29/7/08)

Gerard_M said:


> OK I know a little bit about this topic, have done a few batches, bit of trial & error with some pretty good results. I am not a salesman or retailer anymore so this is not going to help my bank account, but if you follow what I have to say it might just help your beer. Some of you may have noticed that I rarely spruik advice on here, but this is an exception. I have had a gut-full of the crap band-aid cures that get sold off as the latest essential, must have brewing ingredient. polyclar, finnings, filters, they are all just crap. Chuck em in the bin & get some flavour & character back in the glass. Please feel free to put them on eBay, you only have to find somebody as gullable as you were the day you bought them!
> 
> Get a liquid yeast, Wyeast or White Labs it doesn't really matter. Pick out a good flocculator. This little animal is now your new best friend so be nice to him. Liquid yeast are great fun. Yeast propagation is like another hobby inside a hobby. I like to use a few different strains for lagers, but when brewing Ales at home I prefer the WLP005. If you are brewing Lagers the WLP838, is great. Good little floccer with little to no sulphur. (I don't have any experience with Wyeast so go ask a Wyeast retailer what they have that is similar) Oh & when you build a starter, use some AG wort, not that crappy DME, this yeast is your friend, you wouldn't want this yeast to think you are a tightarse on your first date!




OK Clever Clogs, what if you want to brew a style which requires a low flocculating yeast and you want your beer to be bright?? I'd say finings have a place in this case..

Maybe there is a reason you are no longer a salesman/retailer...


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## gap (29/7/08)

RetsamHsam said:


> OK Clever Clogs, what if you want to brew a style which requires a low flocculating yeast and you want your beer to be bright?? I'd say finings have a place in this case..
> 
> Maybe there is a reason you are no longer a salesman/retailer...



No "Clever Clogs" just happens to be a commercial brewer !!!


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## Gerard_M (30/7/08)

RetsamHsam said:


> OK Clever Clogs, what if you want to brew a style which requires a low flocculating yeast and you want your beer to be bright?? I'd say finings have a place in this case..
> 
> Maybe there is a reason you are no longer a salesman/retailer...



Great point. I just had a look at the White Labs chart hanging in the laundry & they have 4 low-floccing yeasts. 3 of these are Hefeweizens & the other is a Belgian Golden Ale. I can't see how any of these styles would benefit from a clearing agent. If you require a low floccing yeast for your Hefe why do you want to clear it? It is a hefeweizen! If it is a Krystal that you are after, then you can achieve the same by simply giving them a little longer in Cold Conditioning. 
I found the Belgian Golden Ale settled out beautifully in the keg, not my preferred style of beer, but nice for a change.
Oh how did that Cerny Pivo turn out in the end? Always has been a fav beer of mine, I might make it again if a get a chance

Cheers
Gerard


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## Kai (30/7/08)

The numero uno low-floccing yeast that springs to my mind is 001 / 1056 / US-05, and that's hardly uncommon. Sure it clears in time but I'm always happy to give it a helping hand.

kai, unprepentant gelatin user.


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## Brewer_010 (30/7/08)

If I was going to add anything useful to this thread I'd suggest an ingredients list in each FWK (on the web if need be) to give the fermenter an idea of what ingredients to add, to either make the fwk "to style" or just personalise it a little. I've used these FWK heaps of times when pressed for time and think they're great, but having little idea what's in them makes it hard to tinker with.

And BTW who cares about a little haze....turn your lights down and save on electricity if it's bothering you B)


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## T.D. (30/7/08)

Brewer_010 said:


> And BTW who cares about a little haze....turn your lights down and save on electricity if it's bothering you B)


Amen to that. I think a lot of people around here put more emphasis on how a beer looks than how it tastes!


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## wyatt_girth (1/8/08)

Anyone had a go at the NNL Sparkling Blonde fresh wort kit? How is it?


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## mynameisrodney (24/10/08)

Hi Guys,

I just bought a Celtic Red Ale FWK and am planning to do it as my next brew. From earlier in this thread i read that diluting with 5L water gives OG=1.037

So by my maths the SG of the 15L kit is 

(15SG + 5)/20 = 1.037
SG=1.049

As a few people have stated this kit feels quite watered down and the BJCP guidelines for this style give an OG of 1.044-1.060 i was thinking of just making this with the 15L kit and no extra water. Has anyone tried this? I definitely don't want to dilute it to 1.037 but this may be too far.

Cheers
Chris


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## Gerard_M (24/10/08)

mynameisrodney said:


> Hi Guys,
> I just bought a Celtic Red Ale FWK and am planning to do it as my next brew. From earlier in this thread i read that diluting with 5L water gives OG=1.037
> So by my maths the SG of the 15L kit is
> (15SG + 5)/20 = 1.037
> ...



Chris
Save the maths & check the gravity of the kit yourself. Easiest way would be to drop your clean hydrometre in the wort before adding water. There are always going to be variations from batch to batch for various reasons. When we first started producing the Brewers Selection range we had to adjust the grain bill to get the OG to 1.052. More often than not that is where the OG was on our kits, & I am pretty sure that would still be the case.
Cheers
Gerard


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## mynameisrodney (24/10/08)

Thanks for that info Gerard. I will definitely check it with a hydrometer before i start, but that wont be for a week or 2, and i didn't want to open the kit and risk infection to check it.

Cheers,
Chris


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