# BeerSmith 3 - worth the upgrade?



## chesl73

Hi all

I’ve been using BeerSmith 2 for a few years and I’m very happy with it. Works well.
I’ve been looking at BeerSmith 3 and the changes/improvements over what I currently already own seem pretty minimal from what I’ve seen. I have no intention of brewing wine or mead and the other functional improvements seem very incremental.
Anyone considered the upgrade or been using BeerSmith 3, is it worth it? And if so, did you go with the traditional license or the subscription license?

Cheers


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## altone

The main reason I went with BeerSmith 3 was the improved water profile calculations.

I went with the gold subscription so I can use it on 2 computers - I don't really care about the cloud stuff.

Although I'm not a fan of subscription software at US10 a year I can live with it.


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## Fro-Daddy

Is it easy to use on the phone?
Mostly concerned about brew day so I don't have to lug out the laptop.


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## Outback

I got the free upgrade because I had purchased BS2 not long before BS3 came along. If you're not into mead or wine, then as Altone said, water calcs are the main difference.
I use the cloud heaps, load up recipes I'm about to brew and take my tablet to brewhouse (garage) and I'm away.


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## Schikitar

Personally, I use BrewersFriend but I did notice that Beersmith currently has a promotion (*up to* 33% off) for those that might be interested - http://beersmith.com/order/


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## Rocker1986

I got it mainly for the water profile stuff - in BS2, nothing that is added or removed from the recipe affects the predicted mash pH, but in BS3 they've fixed that issue so now it does. I also like the improved calculations for late/whirlpool hop additions. Not worried about using the cloud or multiple devices; I'm still somewhat old school and write all my recipes down in a notebook which I use on brew day, then input that data into Beersmith later.


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## trq

I upgraded from bs2 -> bs3, but have since moved on to https://brewfather.app. Main reasoning, it's a web app, so it works on all devices, get's regular updates and it's UI doesn't look like something from the 80s.

I had to make a few small adjustments to my profile, but am once again getting pretty good accuracy now.

Might be worth checking out.


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## f00b4r

Brewfather, the new kid on the block, is definitely worth checking out. From what I have seen quite a few users have moved over from Beersmith (even those who have just upgraded to version 3). 
It is a web based app (but your browser caches it so it works offline) so works and synchs across all devices. If you have a Tilt or similar it also integrated logging of the fermentation into the app. 
I'm not affiliated in any way but really impressed with using it, the development rate is very rapid and the UI is just great (partly the developer I think and partly being able to start from scratch).


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## chesl73

Yes, Brew father might be worth a look. I'm used to Beersmith now and as you say it does look like a product from the 90s but I'm familiar with it and it works well so Brew father would have to somehow something special for me to bother to move.


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## philrob

Simple answer, for the measly few $$$, just do it. I have.


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## chesl73

I've taken a good look at Brewfather today and it is pretty good. Very easy to use, intuitive. The fact that it's web based and I can use it on different devices is a big plus. The water calculations are very easy to use and very intuitive compared to Beersmith. And I checked my next planned brew with BrunWater and the salt additions were spot on and the PH estimate was very very close as well.
Maybe I'm a tight arse but $20 USD per year seems like a lot to me, particularly when you can get Beersmith for $10 USD per year (I think). Will stick with a the free version for now and do a few brews with it and see how it goes. Thanks for the suggestion.

PS. Whilst I was at it I had a little go of Brewers Friend as well - I found that to be very clunky in comparison to Brewfather.


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## mbilbrough

I've decided to stay with BS2. The added features aren't a priority for me, and I'm not a fan of ongoing subscriptions.

Water tools I use Bru'n Water, as well as the online ones. No need for Cider or Wine.

B.


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## fungrel

f00b4r said:


> Brewfather, the new kid on the block, is definitely worth checking out. From what I have seen quite a few users have moved over from Beersmith (even those who have just upgraded to version 3).
> It is a web based app (but your browser caches it so it works offline) so works and synchs across all devices. If you have a Tilt or similar it also integrated logging of the fermentation into the app.
> I'm not affiliated in any way but really impressed with using it, the development rate is very rapid and the UI is just great (partly the developer I think and partly being able to start from scratch).


Loads of users on their fb page are reporting a bunch of bugs. I've taken a look and some features are missing, or don't integrate. 

It's not mature enough for me to consider using it yet. The creators are pushing it as a 'web app' but there are plenty more out there that do more.


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## chesl73

.. "plenty more out there that do more"... Like what? I agree that it is beta software with bugs and immature features and so to ask for 20 USD a year for that is too much in my view.


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## philrob

It's not USD $20 each year for the standard download. It's a once only payment.
The annual amounts are for gold standard or increased cloud etc.
I've only ever paid one fee for each of BS1, BS2, and BS3. No ongoing payments.


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## chesl73

I'm talking 20 per year for Brew father. I own Beersmith 2 already.


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## Rocker1986

BS 3 is a yearly subscription one.


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## mongey

whatever it's worth ....I have Beersmith 3 and Brewers friend . as I tinker with recipes on my phone during my commute I much prefer Brewers friend . It way more user friendly to do a recipe from scratch in the app IMHO . seems to take forever on Beersmith ,and it has a bunch of options I don't need yet


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## ABG

fungrel said:


> Loads of users on their fb page are reporting a bunch of bugs. I've taken a look and some features are missing, or don't integrate.
> 
> It's not mature enough for me to consider using it yet. The creators are pushing it as a 'web app' but there are plenty more out there that do more.



@fungrel I don't have FB. Could you please elaborate on the bugs being reported and also what features are missing or don't integrate?

I had a quick look at Brewfather last night and was really impressed with the interface and the features I saw at first glance. I'm going to try to import a recipe and run a brew with it over the weekend to get a first hand impression, but as always am keen to hear the thoughts of others.


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## fungrel

ABG said:


> @fungrel I don't have FB. Could you please elaborate on the bugs being reported and also what features are missing or don't integrate?][/QUOTE
> 
> Copypasta:
> 
> 
> In the Profiles section, there is no way to delete an equipment profile, or fermentation profile etc. There should be a delete option.
> I also think a folder structure is required for the recipes to better organise them. Tags is all well and good and very 'modern' but folders are more effective.
> Is it possible to use unit grams (g) to calculate water correction (instead of just ml) instead?
> 
> Another minor bug, when I set a yeast starter to 1L, I see 0.26L as the starter volume on the brewing page.
> 
> Inventory seems to sometimes indicate there is not enough, even when there is. I suspect it's related to using pounds and ounces as units and some rounding issues. If I set to more than the amount in the recipe it's fine. See Maris Otter and Mosaic below.
> 
> With the latest update my sparge water acid additions have started to behave weird sporadically. I have yet to figure out if it is changing the target profile or pressing the auto button that makes the sparge acid amount drop to 0 and no matter what I set the sparge water volume to it just stays at 0
> 
> Not sure what I'm doing wrong, but Brewfather seems to suggest I do a no sparge setup, however, it seems to calculate water additions for some amount of sparge. It seems like setting the Water/Grain ratio in the equipment profile would let Brewfather calculate the amount of strike water and then also sparge water (I batch sparge).
> I don't mean to sound like im bagging the software but it's just one guy programming so it is still in it's infancy. That is why i wouldn't use it. More choice means better competition so it's a win-win.


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## f00b4r

Just as an FYI, although there is a Bitbucket based issue tracker (bugs, features, etc) the Facebook reports referred to are on the official page and seem to usually be fixed and pushed to the cloud within 24 hours so the developer is pretty responsive and users are getting the updates without having to keep track and download them.


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## t2000kw

I upgraded to 3 for no particular reason. The upgrade cost was minimal. I do not care much for cloud storage and can use my own storage if I wish to do so. I don't care for the subscription model so I got the basic program that will not require any payments until there is a major version upgrade, and even then, version 3 should still work, so I can decide if it's worth upgrading to 4 when that happens. 

I helped beta test the Mobile Beersmith 3 for Android also and bought it, too. It's a nice way to have it close by if you brew outside or your brewing space is cramped. It has many of the features of the Windows program we're discussing now, too. 

I believe there is a Linux version ow will be soon, and it's available for MAC and iOS. 

There's a 21 day trial version on the features page if you want to give it a try. If you already have versioi 2 I would install it in a separate folder in case you want to just stick with version 2. 

I believe Bewersmith Lite will be going away (it may already no longer be available). 

Donald


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## t2000kw

f00b4r said:


> Just as an FYI, although there is a Bitbucket based issue tracker (bugs, features, etc) the Facebook reports referred to are on the official page and seem to usually be fixed and pushed to the cloud within 24 hours so the developer is pretty responsive and users are getting the updates without having to keep track and download them.



When there is a problem, Brad (the developer) contacts the beta team, which I am part of, and asks if we have time, to test the fix. The last fix put in place was to fix the timer feature. 

It may actually take more then 24 hours, but it does not take very long, either. 

And no, the beta team does not get a free registered copy of the final program. :-( However, you do get a little more consideration for feature requests. 

Donald


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## f00b4r

t2000kw said:


> When there is a problem, Brad (the developer) contacts the beta team, which I am part of, and asks if we have time, to test the fix. The last fix put in place was to fix the timer feature.
> 
> It may actually take more then 24 hours, but it does not take very long, either.
> 
> And no, the beta team does not get a free registered copy of the final program. :-( However, you do get a little more consideration for feature requests.
> 
> Donald



I was actually referring to the Brewfather app in case there is any confusion. I just wanted to make sure that people didn't get the impression it is a really buggy app, e.g. the starter issue related to US users using US gallons for everything but asking for litres to be used as their units for their starters (and I thought we had a cludge in the UK!). 
I am also looking forward to Brewfather potentially coming out with recipe synch with Braumeisters soon now that Speidel are moving to HTTPS in the next few weeks, pushing recipes from my brewing software to the BM and having it record the be via my Tilt just would blow me away. 

TBH I was about to buy a year subscription to Beersmith 3 when Brewfather came along (although I prefer to pay to own software outright I don't mind fairly set subscriptions for indie software where it will keep the developer focused and the program being maintained and improved). 
The things that held me back with BS3 and it's earlier incarnation is the UI (it offends my senses coming from a tech background but I understand how it has come about, it's just a shame V3 didn't take the opportunities to undertake an overhaul of it) and the second class nature of the iOS app (this is apparently being addressed in the newer version when it gets released, although I have not seen it so couldn't comment further). 

You can probably guess what ring I have put my hat in but I think it is a good idea for users to try out a few recommended brewing softwares and make their own mind up, sometimes the little things can be important to individuals and I think until recently Brad has had very little real competition in terms of software quality and hopefully the end users will benefit from both of them improving.


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## lonte

I did upgrade BS2 to 3 as I did want the cloud improvements so I could work on my PC and then have the most current versions automatically available on the brewery Android Tablet. Unfortunately, the Android Pie upgrade broke the BS3 timer in the Android app and so while waiting for it to be fixed I looked around and found Brewfather. Once I was able to write the module to get my tilt data from craftbeerpi3 to Brewfather I was sold and paid for the Premium subscription. I've used Brewfather exclusively since, even after the fix to BS3 timer came out. Brewfather is missing functionality BS3 has but the responsiveness of Thomas the developer and the pace of development I believe will catch up quickly.


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