# $500 to spend on All Grain set up - WWYD?



## HardKnockBrewing (16/7/19)

Hi all,

First post here - it may be a bit of a rambling mess.

I have been brewing inconsistently for a few years now – I started with the no boil canned stuff and have recently moved onto dried malt extract with steeped grain and experimenting with hops. I have decided to take things a little seriously now and have invested in a temperature controller for fermenting which I found via this forum (ITC-308).

The next step is to figure out the next method to brew. At the moment I am using a 10L brew pot and then just topping up with water to 21L. (Pic below).






I am looking to go to all grain and have $500 to spend. Is it best to invest in either the 40L Guten or 35L Brewzilla - or go for a BIAB set up and spend money on a SS Brewtech BrewBucket? At the moment, I am bottling which is fine with me as I don’t tend to drink a lot (I go through a 6 pack a week depending if I have mates over etc). In terms of beer style, I like my Pale Ales, IPAs, NEIPA - nothing too strong really. I do like experimenting with flavours.

So I guess the question is, if you had $500 burning a hole in your pocket - where would you be directing your cash if you were at the stage I am in your brewing.

PS. A bit of a story behind the name ‘Hard Knock Brewing’… I was moving some longnecks that I had brewed a number of years ago. One of the bottles exploded which resulted in a 3cm cut below my lip that went all the way through to the inside of my mouth, a few stitches and a bit of a clean up. Hard Knock was born.


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## monkey brewing (17/7/19)

Hey I'm just like you my friend, I have invested in a Guten, my reasoning? price, $399 40L, $499 50L, at keg king online, have not done a A.G batch yet in fact I am still awaiting delivery which is due today, I jumped straight from kit and extract into well soon, this weekend or tomorrow attempting my 1st A.G brew.


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## HardKnockBrewing (17/7/19)

Awesome, let me know how you go with it.

To be honest – the batch size really isn’t a factor for me due to the amount that I drink. I can’t remember the last time I bought a case of a specific beer as I absolutely enjoy tasting different beers from craft brewers at the local bottle shop. I guess I have a short attention span with styles!


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## beer gut (17/7/19)

People that have bought Guten’s really like them and people who bought Brewzilla’s/Robobrew’s (me included) really like them.

What ever you choose I reckon you’ll love it and you will be pumping out quality beers. 

I have got 2 Ss brew buckets and also really like them. 

Personally I’d buy a Brewzilla/Robobrew or Guten and get a Ss brew bucket down the track.


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## HardKnockBrewing (18/7/19)

Thanks everyone. I probably won't be posting here from here on in... seems it takes too long for my posts to be approved which doesn't really encourage conversation.


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## Mya (18/7/19)

I like my Guten and can't say much wrong about it, I think the consistency you can get in terms of exact temperature profiles while mashing will make the biggest difference in your beers, a SS fermenter is nice but it is definitely a purchase to be made much later down the track. The other important thing is precise temperature control while fermenting, you say you have a temperature controller now - I assume you have some form of fermentation chamber (and old fridge) to ferment in?


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## Timbo (18/7/19)

I have a 3v Herms setup, but being time poor (big hours, landscaping my new place), free time is obviously spent with the family and can’t spend hours on that system at the minute. I’ve actually had to take a step back brewing K & k just to keep my kegs filled because I can punch them out in less than halfa.

Obviously you can’t save much time mashing, but how long does an average brew take on one of these all in one setups? Is there much time difference between this and a larger setup? I’m assuming less clean up. Might bite the bullet if time can be saved, but if not I’ll just keep filling kegs till things settle down a bit.


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## Mya (19/7/19)

I've never used a 3v to compare it to, but the electric at 2400w will likely heat slower than most LPG burners. However the time you really save Imo is the time spent actually doing stuff. You fill it with water, set mash temp and walk away. When it beeps, come back and mash in, if you want to mash out you set that profile too. I mash out so after it finishes mashing it automatically ramps up to mash out and then beeps at you once mash out is done to start sparging (or if not mashing out it will beep after the mashing), you sparge while the wort is warming up for boiling (so save time this way, it gets to like 85 by the time I've finished sparging) then when you've finished sparging you walk away. Meanwhile it gets to boiling and then boils away, you'll need to check it at some point to figure out what timings you need for hops but otherwise you spend like 95% of the time away from it and you can do other stuff during which I think is where the real benefit is, no vessel transfers or managing mashing temps etc.


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## wide eyed and legless (19/7/19)

Timbo said:


> I have a 3v Herms setup, but being time poor (big hours, landscaping my new place), free time is obviously spent with the family and can’t spend hours on that system at the minute. I’ve actually had to take a step back brewing K & k just to keep my kegs filled because I can punch them out in less than halfa.
> 
> Obviously you can’t save much time mashing, but how long does an average brew take on one of these all in one setups? Is there much time difference between this and a larger setup? I’m assuming less clean up. Might bite the bullet if time can be saved, but if not I’ll just keep filling kegs till things settle down a bit.


I try to brew when my wife isn't around that saves about 1 hour, full volume mash, no mash out, no sparge, starter goes into grain bed for a warm up, boil, cool transfer to fermenter pitch yeast clean up.
As Mya mentioned other jobs can be done during mashing and boiling time only thing left to do at the end is clean out the kettle.


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## Mya (19/7/19)

HardKnockBrewing said:


> Thanks everyone. I probably won't be posting here from here on in... seems it takes too long for my posts to be approved which doesn't really encourage conversation.


That goes away after your first few posts, it's a necessary evil to stop the spammers unfortunately.


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## Timbo (19/7/19)

Awesome responses, much appreciated. Heaps to consider as a middle ground between 3v and mixing gunk together (kits/extract) would be perfect at the minute.


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## Timbo (19/7/19)

Mya said:


> That goes away after your first few posts, it's a necessary evil to stop the spammers unfortunately.


Yup absolutely. Hang in there HKB, it goes away before you know it!


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## Reg Holt (20/7/19)

Timbo said:


> I have a 3v Herms setup, but being time poor (big hours, landscaping my new place), free time is obviously spent with the family and can’t spend hours on that system at the minute. I’ve actually had to take a step back brewing K & k just to keep my kegs filled because I can punch them out in less than halfa.
> 
> Obviously you can’t save much time mashing, but how long does an average brew take on one of these all in one setups? Is there much time difference between this and a larger setup? I’m assuming less clean up. Might bite the bullet if time can be saved, but if not I’ll just keep filling kegs till things settle down a bit.


I was 3 v but for me it made more sense to get a SVB I bought a 40 litre Guten second hand, was really impressed so got the 50 litre on special. 
Now I have read there is a 70 litre coming out.


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## Timbo (20/7/19)

Reg Holt said:


> I was 3 v but for me it made more sense to get a SVB I bought a 40 litre Guten second hand, was really impressed so got the 50 litre on special.
> Now I have read there is a 70 litre coming out.


Thanks! This was the kind of opinion I was after as you’ve scaled back vessels as I’m considering. I’m glad you’re happy with your setup and it’s given me food for thought.


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## TheBeerBaron (20/7/19)

I’m planning to go BIAB with the 65L DigiBoil from KL to test the waters of AG… that way I can do full volume, no sparge etc. which is easier (?) to get mastered and then if later decide to go the BrewZilla route, i’ll already own the sparge water heater!


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## wide eyed and legless (20/7/19)

Reg Holt said:


> I was 3 v but for me it made more sense to get a SVB I bought a 40 litre Guten second hand, was really impressed so got the 50 litre on special.
> Now I have read there is a 70 litre coming out.


That is correct a 70 litre model of the Guten is in the pipeline.


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## JDW81 (20/7/19)

If I was starting from scratch and had $500 to set up an AG system, I'd spend $150-200 on an urn and go BIAB then use the rest to buy a nice kegging setup (and forget the brew bucket for the time being).

The automated systems are good, but they don't make better beer than a 3v or good ole BIAB. Things like good recipe design, yeast health, sanitisation and temperature control do more for quality beer than shiny stainless steel ever will.

JD


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## Timbo (20/7/19)

JDW81 said:


> If I was starting from scratch and had $500 to set up an AG system, I'd spend $150-200 on an urn and go BIAB then use the rest to buy a nice kegging setup (and forget the brew bucket for the time being).
> 
> The automated systems are good, but they don't make better beer than a 3v or good ole BIAB. Things like good recipe design, yeast health, sanitisation and temperature control do more for quality beer than shiny stainless steel ever will.
> 
> JD


Oh yeah, kegging any day over a brew bucket!

I flat out wouldn’t brew anymore if I had to bottle....


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## mje1980 (22/7/19)

I brewed 3v for a few years, then Biab for a few years. A mate said he was going to get a robobrew, god, they’re so easy to use it’s not funny. Quite compact too. I was going to go halves with him but I’m going to get one of my own.


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## Timbo (22/7/19)

Might go and have a look at a robo/guten in person I think! Less gear to have out, ease of use and reasonable prices are selling it to me...


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## Jack1984 (27/7/19)

This is what I got and yet to use it.


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## jsp1511 (7/11/19)

I'm looking at something similar. Finally got approval from the Minister of finance to splurge on some new brew kit (time to jump from extract to BIAB/All Grain).

I'm looking at either a similar list to Jack1984 or the Grain'n'Grape BIAB kit - https://www.grainandgrape.com.au/pr...lectric-urn-biab-mashing-system-brew-in-a-bag

I've seen you can get a kit to convert a Digiboil into a Robobrew type device (but doesn't seem to be available very much) - anyone used one of those conversion kits before?


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## Schikitar (7/11/19)

I love my BIAB setup (Crown 40L urn) but there is one thing making me want to go down the Brewzilla/Guten path and that's the recirculation/sparge process. I would really like to improve my efficiency and filter out the trub a little better than what BIAB allows..

Don't get me wrong though, BIAB is a great start and it also allowed me to build a keggerator pretty cheaply and dispose of the bottles, that was a game changer! EDIT: It also freed up some cash to have a proper temp controlled chamber with a Fermzilla. If I do get something like a Brewzilla then I'll keep the Crown urn for sparging..


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## jsp1511 (7/11/19)

I'd been doing some read/watching on the all-in-one brewing systems - and their was one system that looks like it was available in the US that used an external pump for re-circulation (one end of hose on the outlet, and other just sits in the top of the urn). I'm assuming I could do something similar with the digiboil in the future if I wanted.

As nice as it would be, I don't see myself going down the keg route (I'm the only one in my house that drinks beer).

I'll go down the BIAB option now - and then later i want a grainfather/robobrew the Digiboil can be used for sparging


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## sp0rk (7/11/19)

If I had $500 spare, I'd buy the rig I'm selling and you'd have $50 spare for consumables!
https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/complete-3v-setup-muswellbrook-nsw-upper-hunter.100674/


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## jsp1511 (7/11/19)

Could it also be worth picking up a cheap esky to use a HLT for sparge water (boil some water in the urn, then transfer to HLT before starting the mash process) ? Seen a few similar to this for $20/$30 on facebook - https://www.bunnings.com.au/esky-15l-blue-keg_p3240514


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## Half-baked (8/11/19)

jsp1511 said:


> Could it also be worth picking up a cheap esky to use a HLT for sparge water (boil some water in the urn, then transfer to HLT before starting the mash process) ? Seen a few similar to this for $20/$30 on facebook - https://www.bunnings.com.au/esky-15l-blue-keg_p3240514



Kmart does one pretty cheap. Probably not the best insulation but a yoga mat will fix that...


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## CrabbyPatty (7/5/20)

Jack1984 said:


> This is what I got and yet to use it. View attachment 116175



How have you been finding this system? I have half a foot in all grain and have been debating between saving for a Guten system, or just getting a boiler and modifying an old esky for a mash tun. Though the jacket, false bottom and BIAB look tempting to reduce the vessel numbers and work load.


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## Wolfman1 (19/5/20)

I’ve been doing BIAB in a crown urn and it’s stoopid easy and I make beers People seem really happy with. With wrapping the urn in a camping mat and some blankets it’ll hold temperature for 90 mins without any problem. 
With cold crash with some gelatin my beers are always clear so I don’t think you are going to get much benefit out of the recirc. If you are hung up on efficiency then buy an extra 250g of grain. 
With BIAB there No stuck sparges and cleaning is a doddle and less room for infections.
The only advantage I see with the pumped systems is better temp control on stepped mashes, but It’s never looked like a worthwhile payback for me. 

I think you get better results in concentrating on the fermenting and packaging side. 
ive got a brew tech brew bucket and it’s fantastic. but if you don’t have a fridge and temp controller I think you would be better off doing that and not worrying too much about the stainless yet. If you have a fridge then the stainless makes sense. 
I’d get a couple of flasks and a stir plate to get a healthy yeast pitch. I’ve got half a dozen mason jars in the back of the fridge with different yeasts so that quickly pays for itself.
Kegs really are the next best and I’d much rather do that then spend money on mashing equipment. 
less exposure to oxygen, less risk of infection and a heap less time spent through the process.


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## CrabbyPatty (3/6/20)

Wolfman1 said:


> I’ve been doing BIAB in a crown urn and it’s stoopid easy and I make beers People seem really happy with. With wrapping the urn in a camping mat and some blankets it’ll hold temperature for 90 mins without any problem.
> With cold crash with some gelatin my beers are always clear so I don’t think you are going to get much benefit out of the recirc. If you are hung up on efficiency then buy an extra 250g of grain.
> With BIAB there No stuck sparges and cleaning is a doddle and less room for infections.
> The only advantage I see with the pumped systems is better temp control on stepped mashes, but It’s never looked like a worthwhile payback for me.
> ...


Thanks for that information. Super useful. I have ordered a DigiBoil Urn, a false bottom and a grain bag so looking forward to getting going on a full BIAB system.


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## deeve007 (10/11/21)

CrabbyPatty said:


> Thanks for that information. Super useful. I have ordered a DigiBoil Urn, a false bottom and a grain bag so looking forward to getting going on a full BIAB system.


This is from a while ago, but can I ask what the false bottom added to your setup than without it? I thought that was to stop grains getting into the pump, but the Digiboil doesn't have one?


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