# Saf Dried Yeasts.



## Tony (14/10/05)

I have been using liquis yeasts for a fair while now.

I have used about 20 different strains and sort of told myself i would never need to go back to dried yeast.

I have aquired 2 packs of dried yeast as a gift

one is S-33

the other is T-58

Does anyone know what these yeasts are like and if they are worth dropping in a brew?

i cant seem to google up a site to explain them either?

any help ?

cheers all


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## sluggerdog (14/10/05)

I have made some top brews with the S-33.

try here for more info: http://www.dclyeast.co.uk/DCL_Main/main_br...ebrew_intro.htm


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## roach (15/10/05)

Tony,Here is a great article on dried yeasts including those you mentioned=
cheers
roach


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## normell (15/10/05)

Try this also
http://www.fermentis.com/FO/EN/06-Ales/20-10_why-use_hb.asp

Normell


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## sluggerdog (15/10/05)

normell said:


> Try this also
> http://www.fermentis.com/FO/EN/06-Ales/20-10_why-use_hb.asp
> 
> Normell
> [post="82953"][/post]​



CHINK CHINK :beer: 


This is the site I was looking for, couldn't find it yesterday


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## vlbaby (15/10/05)

Tony said:


> I have been using liquis yeasts for a fair while now.
> 
> I have used about 20 different strains and sort of told myself i would never need to go back to dried yeast.
> 
> [post="82941"][/post]​



Tony,
Dont underestimate the quality of dried yeast just because they are cheaper. The only difference between dried and liquid is the greater variety of liquid yeast. At present, I believe that most strains of yeast cannot survive the drying process.

Dry yeast also has the advantage of having a higher cell count per packet that an average smack pack( so no starter is needed) , and its around 1/4 the price.

I have lately been switching back to dry yeast for my lagers for these reasons, and the saflager w34/70 i have been using has been coming up with some great results.

food for thought.

vlbaby.


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## Bazza (15/10/05)

Was just looking at the DCL website, apparently W-68 (for bavarian wheat beer) yeast is coming soon.
Has anyone seen it on sale anywhere?
Bazza


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## Mr Bond (15/10/05)

Bazza said:


> Was just looking at the DCL website, apparently W-68 (for bavarian wheat beer) yeast is coming soon.
> Has anyone seen it on sale anywhere?
> Bazza
> [post="82962"][/post]​



2years and waiting still,if you can find anyone who stocks it let us all know......

talk about teasing :blink:


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## bindi (15/10/05)

I also have had great results with S-33, but like you I use Liquids most of the time. And thanks guys for the above links all good reading.


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## wessmith (15/10/05)

Spoke to the Fermentis (used to be DCL) GM in Munich a few weeks back - they have abndined the W68 strain - it just would not dry properly. They are however, well on the way to launching another weizen yeast strain that has performed well in tests to date. Stay tuned...

Wes


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## Batz (15/10/05)

Nottingham

Wonderful dried yeast

Batz


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## Tony (15/10/05)

thanks all

that was the info i was after.

sounds like i have a couple of belgian strains on my hands 

mmmmmmmmmm maybe a dubble and a wit are in order.

oh christ.......... the to do list grows :unsure: 

i will have to get more firmenters. i already have 3 x 30 liter and 2 x 60 liter.

mmmmmmmmm matbe i will get another 60 liter one on monday.

 why not 

cheers


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## Doc (19/2/06)

Tony,

I'm trying T-58 for the first time now.
Probably the from the same source that you got yours.

Using because my starter for the DunkelRyeizen wasn't big enough for 40 litres, so pitched the T-58 into 25 litres and the WLP300 Hefe yeast into the 15 litres. Will do a comparison when they are fermented out, but both are fermenting strongly this morning after only pitching at half time in the Reds game last night.

Beers,
Doc


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## wessmith (19/2/06)

Doc, will be using T58 today in a Belgian style "Golden Ale". Sort of Leffe Blondish but only 4.8% alc. In the mash tun as we speak.

Wes


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## Darren (19/2/06)

wessmith said:


> Doc, will be using T58 today in a Belgian style "Golden Ale". Sort of Leffe Blondish but only 4.8% alc. In the mash tun as we speak.
> 
> Wes
> [post="109631"][/post]​




Ah, Wes my favorite style. What hops are you using?

cheers
Darren


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## tangent (19/2/06)

Yeah, a lovely style.
I'm still tinkering with my recipe, care to swap recipes?


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## Darren (19/2/06)

Mine is so simple. Pils malt, 10% wheat malt and 1388 Wyeast. 
Bitter with what ever hop you like. Stay around 20-25 IBU. 
I can drink it from the fermenter. 

cheers
Darren


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## hupnupnee (19/2/06)

Where did you get your T58 from. My HBS stocks only the two the SAFLAGER and the SAFALE and thats it.

Cheers

Hupnupnee


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## tangent (19/2/06)

> Doc, will be using T58 today in a Belgian style "Golden Ale". Sort of Leffe Blondish but only 4.8% alc. In the mash tun as we speak. - Wes
> 
> Mine is so simple. Pils malt, 10% wheat malt and 1388 Wyeast.
> Bitter with what ever hop you like. Stay around 20-25 IBU.
> ...



"I can drink it from the fermenter". 
always the sign of a great beer, that and drinking the entire hydrometer tube and thinking about a re-pour.

i like your recipe simplicity Darren. do you try to keep your aroma hop to a minimum? maybe only 1 addition at 30-40mins?

Mine's a bit involved, but as I tinker, I'm stripping it back a bit. It's on tap atm and it's a lovely beer. Maybe the late hop addition can be canned. Very lightly carbonated and a great pint to finish the night with whislt reading brewing books <poindexter>

---------------------------
Tripel "Light"	tangent
Boil Duration: 60.0 mins 
Fermentation Temperature: 22 degC 


Pilsner Malt 3.00 kg 55.7 % In Mash/Steeped
CaraMunich I 0.20 kg 3.7 % In Mash/Steeped
Wheat Malt 0.60 kg 11.1 % In Mash/Steeped
Galaxy 0.33 kg 6.1 % In Mash/Steeped
Pale Ale Malt 0.33 kg 6.1 % In Mash/Steeped
Maris Otter 0.33 kg 6.1 % In Mash/Steeped


Hops
Variety	Alpha	Amount	Form	When
NZ Nelson Sauvin 12.7 10 g Pelletized Hops 30 Min From End
NZ Pacific Gem 15.5 10 g Pelletized Hops 30 Min From End
Slovenian Styrian Goldings 3.7 10 g Pelletized Hops 30 Min From End
Slovenian Styrian Goldings 3.7 10 g Pelletized Hops 15 Min From End

Other Ingredients
Ingredient	Amount	When
Ginger Root 11 g In Boil
Irish Moss 3 g In Boil
Coriander Seed 11 g In Boil
Sultana Grapes - Chopped 11 g In Boil

Yeast
Wyeast 1214-Belgian Ale

Mash Schedule
Mash Type: Full Mash
Schedule Name: Single Step Infusion (66C/151F)

Step Type	Temperature	Duration
Strike/Dough in at 74 degC 5
Rest at 66 degC 60 - readjust with more water for extra 30 mins rest.
----------------------------

It could do with a touch more crystal and maybe cut back on the other malts but I wanted complex and I got it.
The original was planned for some dexy as well instead of sugar, but I canned that during brew day.
I think the sultanas gave it a longer secondary and in the end probably weren't needed.
Next one I'll up the ginger by another 10gms. I can't tell if it's there yet, so I want to find the boundary of how much before you can detect it. I was really surprised how balanced it is for a scratch recipe and one of my favourite styles.


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## wessmith (19/2/06)

Golden Ale

55% JW Pilsner malt
40% JW Wendouree Gold Vienna
3% Weyermann Caraaroma
2% Weyerman Acidulated

Styrian Goldings for bittering
EKG for flavour - in 20 mins

Colour: EBC 14 to 15
Bitterness: 25.5 IBU
OG: 11.5

Mash: 60, 65, 72, 76

Ferment at 19C with Fermentis T56

In the fermenter as we speak. This brew will be the first under head pressure - will hold it around 0.2 to 0.3 Bar

Wes


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## wessmith (19/2/06)

And no, its not a new yeast strain - should have read T58

Grrrr...

Wes


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## Linz (19/2/06)

No mention on the Fermentis site about US-56...its one of theirs aint it???


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## Ross (19/2/06)

Linz said:


> No mention on the Fermentis site about US-56...its one of theirs aint it???
> [post="109690"][/post]​



Here Linz, just not on their product page: 

http://www.fermentis.com/FO/EN/09-Divers/40-10_search.asp

edit: not linking - put us-56 in their search box...

Edit2: better link here: http://www.fermentis.com/FO/EN/06-Ales/90-10_product_cb.asp

cheers Ross...


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## Ross (19/2/06)

wessmith said:


> This brew will be the first under head pressure - will hold it around 0.2 to 0.3 Bar
> 
> Wes
> [post="109684"][/post]​



& the reason please?  

cheers Ross


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## PostModern (19/2/06)

Linz said:


> No mention on the Fermentis site about US-56...its one of theirs aint it???
> [post="109690"][/post]​



I think that's because it's sold in bricks for the brewing industry. We only get it in packs (like K-97) because kindly distributers break up the bricks and repackage in foil.


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## Ross (19/2/06)

PostModern said:


> Linz said:
> 
> 
> > No mention on the Fermentis site about US-56...its one of theirs aint it???
> ...



PoMo,

No, it's sold in proper 11.5gm Fermentis packets, it's in their craft brewer section -

link here, just click on safale for full product info: http://www.fermentis.com/FO/EN/06-Ales/90-10_product_cb.asp

cheers Ross


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## Linz (19/2/06)

PoMo,

Saw little red packs at Gerards which were the US-56...just looking for more details...


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## wessmith (19/2/06)

> & the reason please? smile.gif
> 
> cheers Ross



Gidday Ross, have been working towards pressure ferments for some time and finally got all the changes done to the main vessel including the sample tap which I posted a pic of the other day. Almost all commercial breweries (and that includes micros) use a pressure vessel to ferment their beers. It obviously keeps the nasties out, but more importantly some yeast like a bit of head pressure. Others seem to perform better with hydrostatic pressure - try a fermenter 25m high and holding 200,000ltrs!

The other reason is my brewing cabinet is a 2 door coke fridge and at this time of year brewing at 19C, the inside of that cabinet is just perfect for the development of all sorts of bacteria. My 2 fermenters are basically atmospheric but I have converted one to pressure. And yes, I got caught with 2 brews where I kegged the same day I brewed and pitched with the same yeast. Acetobactor heaven! Will have some very good malt vinegar if anyone is interested....

Wes


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## Linz (19/2/06)

Any chance for a comparison chart of all the SAF strains to known WL/WY strains???


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## Ross (19/2/06)

wessmith said:


> It obviously keeps the nasties out, but more importantly some yeast like a bit of head pressure.
> [post="109705"][/post]​



Well there you go, learn something new every day  . I'd always been under the impression that head pressure was bad for the yeast, especially during early ferment, hence I don't even stress the yeast with airlocks these days...

Cheers Ross...

P.S. Sorry, this has gone off topic, didn't mean to hijack, just fascinated...


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## PostModern (19/2/06)

Ross said:


> No, it's sold in proper 11.5gm Fermentis packets, it's in their craft brewer section -
> 
> link here, just click on safale for full product info: http://www.fermentis.com/FO/EN/06-Ales/90-10_product_cb.asp
> 
> [post="109702"][/post]​



Thanks, Ross, clicked there read this:



> Safale US-56
> 
> The most famous American ale yeast now available in dry form in *500g packs*.



The homebrewers range here http://www.fermentis.com/FO/EN/06-Ales/30-10_product_hb.asp all show availability in 11.5g packs.


I should know better than to believe everything I read on the web, tho.

It'd be nice if LHBS stocked more lines.


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## Ross (19/2/06)

PostModern said:


> Ross said:
> 
> 
> > No, it's sold in proper 11.5gm Fermentis packets, it's in their craft brewer section -
> ...


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## Screwtop (19/2/06)

Ross said:


> wessmith said:
> 
> 
> > It obviously keeps the nasties out, but more importantly some yeast like a bit of head pressure.
> ...



Ditto Ross,

I had always believed that breweries used head pressure simply for the same reasons as yeast manufacturers, pressure inside greater than outside = no outside air (yeasts from brewery building and equipment) in. Didn't realise that some yeasts prefer this environment.


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## Doc (19/2/06)

hupnupnee said:


> Where did you get your T58 from. My HBS stocks only the two the SAFLAGER and the SAFALE and thats it.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> ...



Marks Home Brew in Newcastle.

Beers,
Doc


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## mongo (7/3/06)

Doc, how is your dried yeast trial shaping up? Kegged? I noticed that you were brewing with the dried about two weeks ago (although I imagine that you are at the more meticulous end of the brewing spectrum - it's being CC'd isn't it?)

I would really like to get some feedback on the performance of these newer dried yeasts. I'm on the brink of buying US-56 instead of Wyeast 1056, and naturally want an iron-clad money-back guarantee from this site that they are totally equivalent  

Linz mentioned earlier that he'd like to see a comparison. I would also like to see one. If the dried yeasts really are equivalent, then there are really, really compelling reasons to go dried. Costs aside, there's no hassles associated with starters, etc...


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## Ross (7/3/06)

mongo said:


> I would really like to get some feedback on the performance of these newer dried yeasts. I'm on the brink of buying US-56 instead of Wyeast 1056, and naturally want an iron-clad money-back guarantee from this site that they are totally equivalent
> 
> [post="113094"][/post]​



Mongo,

Wyeast 1056 was one of my fav yeasts for apa's, but I've used saf-56 in my last half dozen American style ales. I reckon it's a top yeast - every beer has kicked off strongly & I got my Ruination Ale down from 1080 to 1014 in 7 days, fermenting at 18c...
I for one, won't be switching back to liquid... :beer: 

cheers Ross...


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## Steve (7/3/06)

Mongo - have used both several times in various types of beers....and to be honest I couldnt tell the difference. Ive now gone back to dried yeasts. I always have a supply of us56 in the fridge.
Cheers
Steve


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## T.D. (7/3/06)

I recently bought 10 sachets each of S-04 and US-56. Its a bit of an up-front cost, but it beats the hell out of doing a starter each time. The way I figure it I do either English style ales or American style ales probably 95% of the time - if S-04 is the same as WLP005 and US-56 is the same as WLP001 then I am more than happy with the quality of both of those yeasts. For the modest extra cost, you get a hell of a lot more convenience and peace of mind. I will probably only use liquid yeasts now if I need something more "out of the square".


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## Duff (7/3/06)

I must be different then because I can taste a difference.

I tried some beers recently which were fermented with US-56 and I found them 'powdery' in taste compared to WLP001. While they were still enjoyable (XMas Case) from different brewers, those that had used the same yeast gave the same aftertaste. Even S-04 which I used to use when I first started out has nothing on WLP005, so while no doubt they are less hassle, IMO they still have some way to go before being called comparable to a good liquid.

Cheers.


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## n00ch (7/3/06)

Another dry yeast i have had good results with when doing English style beers is the Muntons Premium Gold. 

Anyone else use this yeast?


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## mongo (7/3/06)

Great.
Thanks for the feedback. Looks like I'll be stocking up on US-56. 
Cheers!


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## mongo (7/3/06)

Duff - we posted at the same time. 
I'll try the dried this weekend and report back with my findings.
Cheers.


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## bindi (7/3/06)

SAFALE US 56 ALE YEAST
Produces well balanced beers with low diacetyl and a very clean, crisp end palate. Alcohol tolerant to 12%, 15-24C

I like this Yeast  some say it is the same as Wyeast 1056 but I am with Duff, they taste to me to be different, I split a batch and used both and you could tell the differance in taste [both good] , the us 56 went a few points lower also. as for a neutral dry yeast my new choice is:
Nottingham Ale yeast 

Can't spell


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## BoilerBoy (7/3/06)

Yeah I have to agree with Duff and Bindi.

One of the most significant improvments in my brewing was using liquids, that certain taste was always present before and since changing hasn't returned.

Yet every time I have a beer given to me to try (and it happened to me just last week) that was done with dried yeast I can taste it. 

It's not what I would call terrible, just not desirable.

Of course thats just my opinion.  

Cheers,

BB


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## n00ch (7/3/06)

This link might be relevant also.

http://www.byo.com/referenceguide/yeaststrains/


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## T.D. (7/3/06)

The only real chance I have had to compare liquid and dry yeast was way back and it was an English bitter style beer. The two beers were brewed on separate occasions so that may have added some bias. The yeasts were S-04 and White Labs Southwold Ale. The S-04 did taste a bit cleaner and not as malty (although it was still malty enough). I would not describe the dry yeast beer as being at all inferior to the liquid yeast beer though. They both were nice, its was just a few subtle differences.


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## Ross (7/3/06)

Duff said:


> I must be different then because I can taste a difference.
> 
> I tried some beers recently which were fermented with US-56 and I found them 'powdery' in taste compared to WLP001. While they were still enjoyable (XMas Case) from different brewers, those that had used the same yeast gave the same aftertaste. Even S-04 which I used to use when I first started out has nothing on WLP005, so while no doubt they are less hassle, IMO they still have some way to go before being called comparable to a good liquid.
> 
> ...



Duff,

i haven't tried 2 identical brews done with wyeast 1056 & saf-56 - maybe I should split a batch & try it - but the powdery taste you describe from saf-56 is a mystery. I've got 3 beers on tap at the moment, a light summer ale, an apa & an Imperial pale ale - none of them exhibit the powdery taste you describe (not to my pallette anyway) - Maybe it has something to do with how they are brewed, possibly temp related, as mine were all brewed low at 17 to 18c.

cheers Ross...


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## Mr Bond (7/3/06)

Any comparisons are invalid if you know which is which.
Tasting would have to be done blind to eliminate preconcieved biases.


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## mikem108 (7/3/06)

Never really like my results with Safale or Saflager, went all liquid yeast for a couple of years then tried US56 when it came out and really like it. All the beers made with it so far have been really impresive with no unusual aftertaste, my beer making skill has also improved over this time so this may also be a factor.
I chucked the 56 into an English Bitter when a starter of 1028(london ale?) didn't take off , it turned out so well that I'm converted to 56 for convenience and when the recipe warrants it but wouldn't give up the Whitelabs just yet.
Same beer made with WLP060 American Ale Blend came out much cleaner and more "lager" like.


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## warrenlw63 (7/3/06)

I think a good indicator of dried yeast quality is to check the complete entry and score lists at state and (maybe) national HB competitions.

It will probably gauge in a semi-accurate sense the current standing of dried yeasts.

Personally (only speaking purely for myself) I'm not a huge fan of them. Very convenient if your starter fails but that's about it. Used some Safale S04 in a English Summer Ale a while ago and found it to be OK but still containing that strange "Saf-flavour". Showcased the hops but basically emasculated the malt. h34r: 

Haven't had any experience with the US 56. I'd be more than willing to give it a go if my Wyeast 1056 starter were ever to fail.  

Warren -


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## Darren (7/3/06)

I find the US 56 has a Saf flavour too. I biught a 500g brick a few years ago. Still have about 300g remaining.
Not sure if my experience was because I added too much.
Also left ALOT of diacetly that never cleaned up.
just my 0.02.

cheers
Darren


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## T.D. (7/3/06)

Ross said:


> I've got 3 beers on tap at the moment, a light summer ale, an apa & an Imperial pale ale - none of them exhibit the powdery taste you describe (not to my pallette anyway) - Maybe it has something to do with how they are brewed, possibly temp related, as mine were all brewed low at 17 to 18c.
> 
> cheers Ross...
> [post="113147"][/post]​



Ross, 

I have an American Amber Ale in primary right now, brewed with US-56, and its sitting at 22-23 degrees. So, if its a temp issue, this beer might be a good indication. If I remember I will report the findings in a few weeks when I crack the first one.

I'm just trying a fermenter sample now (only 3 days since it was brewed!  ). Its a hoppy little bugger - I think even you would be impressed with this one Ross!


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## Linz (7/3/06)

OH well ...How many brewers using the saf v liquids here entered the Hills show??

First test coming up????


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## Jim_Levet (7/3/06)

I recently did a very blonde ale(20% wheat & Pils) on the US56. I was feeling lazy so I pitched an American Pale Fresh Wort Kit onto the slurry. Do I count that as a dried yeast as it looked pretty wet to me?
James


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## Doc (13/3/06)

Doc said:


> Tony,
> 
> I'm trying T-58 for the first time now.
> Probably the from the same source that you got yours.
> ...



Here is the followup.
Kegged both beers tonight.
The two yeasts worked on the same wort with the same aeration at the same temperature and were racked at the same time (9 days).
The brew with WLP300 gives a FG of 1.004.
The brew with T-58 gives a FG of 1.014.

Taste test (warm from secondary) is very difficult to tell the two apart (even with the varying FG.

No conclusions at this stage. Any comments ?

Doc


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## normell (13/3/06)

Doc said:


> Doc said:
> 
> 
> > Tony,
> ...



So Doc, lot of difference in FG, so range of %Alc very different

Normell


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## Doc (13/3/06)

normell said:


> So Doc, lot of difference in FG, so range of %Alc very different
> 
> Normell
> [post="114206"][/post]​



Yes Normell, the WLP300 is a much more attenuative yeast in this situation. In fact it is more attenuative than I remember it and probably more than specified. 1.050 down to 1.004 is great going for any yeast.

Beers,
Doc


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## normell (13/3/06)

Doc said:


> normell said:
> 
> 
> > So Doc, lot of difference in FG, so range of %Alc very different
> ...


Better label them properly Doc
6.13% down to 4.8%
Remember to check the labels first before a session :blink:


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## SJW (17/8/06)

Doc said:


> Doc said:
> 
> 
> > Tony,
> ...



So Doc, what was the final result?


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## Doc (17/8/06)

I haven't done the side by side comparison.
Will make a mental note to do it tonight and post back.

Beers,
Doc


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## Doc (17/8/06)

SJW,

Got home and have realised that the DunkelRyeizen I did that yeast split is well and truely gone. This arvo I thought it was the current one I have on tap.
I thought I did post some more info. I didn't write any in my recipe book. Bugger.

Doc

Edit: Spelling


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## /// (17/8/06)

Did you forget to add the slashdot to the project, hence the forgetful nature, and insert it into your M$ .net parrallel universe when all you really wanted was a divine unix experience that is 'nuff said' some 30 years ago?

Bad habits die hard - particuarly for men who refer to M$ as M$!

Scotty


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## Doc (17/8/06)

/// said:


> Did you forget to add the slashdot to the project, hence the forgetful nature, and insert it into your M$ .net parrallel universe when all you really wanted was a divine unix experience that is 'nuff said' some 30 years ago?
> 
> Bad habits die hard - particuarly for men who refer to M$ as M$!
> 
> Scotty



No, I think I forgot to DIG it, and had it on another workspace on my SUSE XGL desktop.

Has it really been 30 years since you worked for SUN ?

Doc


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## warrenlw63 (17/8/06)

Drinking an APA/Blonde Ale type beer made with US56 as I type. Not normally known to be a huge rap for dried yeasts but I have to confess to really liking this beer.  

Extremely clean, neutral almost lager-like flavours that totally showcase the late hopping. I'd say not "exactly" the same as Wyeast 1056 but fairly close and quite good.

Don't think I'm going to be making any huge lifestyle changes in terms of yeast useage anytime soon but I'd have no hesitation in using US56 again in a pinch. :beerbang: 

Warren -


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