# Gas Bottle Weights



## sama (11/1/12)

Hi yall
I have a Keg King 6kg/9.1 litre co2 gas bottle.Does anyone know of this bottles empty weight and full weight? Cant find such a post or info anywhere.


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## mika (11/1/12)

Should have the tare weight stamped on the bottle, it's rough, but good enough for a rough measure of how full it is.


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## donburke (27/3/12)

sama said:


> Hi yall
> I have a Keg King 6kg/9.1 litre co2 gas bottle.Does anyone know of this bottles empty weight and full weight? Cant find such a post or info anywhere.




bump

does anyone have the tare/gross weights of the keg king 6kg steel bottle ? 

i looked and cant find it on the bottle


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## alfadog (27/3/12)

donburke said:


> bump
> 
> does anyone have the tare/gross weights of the keg king 6kg steel bottle ?
> 
> i looked and cant find it on the bottle



I think it holds 6kg of gas

EDIT: just read your question again, not sure of the bottle mass


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## donburke (27/3/12)

alfadog said:


> I think it holds 6kg of gas
> 
> EDIT: just read your question again, not sure of the bottle mass




found a website listing the shipping weight as 23kg

my bottle just weighed in at 15kg

that means i'm negative 2kg

somethings not right


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## donburke (28/3/12)

the high side of my regulator has started dropping into the 'order gas' section as of a week ago, and is continuing to drop

out of a 6kg i would definitely have expected more than 4 or 5 kegs that i've carbed and dispensed

which led me to believe i must have a leak

last night i checked every single connection point, regulator, bottle, keg and manifold with soapy water and found nothing

this leads me to believe either

1) i had a leak previously that is no longer leaking

2) the high side of my regulator has a faulty reading

3) the bottle was not full at the time of purchase

if someone knows the weight of one of these bottles either empty or full then that could at least answer the question about the faulty regulator

any help is appreciated


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## scooza (28/3/12)

donburke said:


> the high side of my regulator has started dropping into the 'order gas' section as of a week ago, and is continuing to drop
> 
> out of a 6kg i would definitely have expected more than 4 or 5 kegs that i've carbed and dispensed
> 
> ...


hi, i would say that there is a leak in the system. i have a one kilo bottle and easily carb and dispense 5 kegs. i find with my reg that once it hits the order gas area that i maybe dispense 1 keg. hope you sort it. did it feel about 20kg when you got it?


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## donburke (28/3/12)

scooza said:


> hi, i would say that there is a leak in the system. i have a one kilo bottle and easily carb and dispense 5 kegs. i find with my reg that once it hits the order gas area that i maybe dispense 1 keg. hope you sort it. did it feel about 20kg when you got it?



i just called keg king, they weighed a full bottle and it came in at 20.3 kg or something close to that

yes, i have a leak, but fucked if i know where it is, the soapy water didnt show anything up


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## QldKev (28/3/12)

donburke said:


> i just called keg king, they weighed a full bottle and it came in at 20.3 kg or something close to that
> 
> yes, i have a leak, but fucked if i know where it is, the soapy water didnt show anything up




When you shut the fridge door, does it cause the beer lines to push against the disconnects? Hence it only leaks when the door is closed.


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## stux (28/3/12)

donburke said:


> i just called keg king, they weighed a full bottle and it came in at 20.3 kg or something close to that
> 
> yes, i have a leak, but fucked if i know where it is, the soapy water didnt show anything up



Yep, sucks. I find the soapy solution sometimes blocks the very fine leaks. 

Use your ear/hand to feel for leaks. 

I had one on my regulator barb. Took me days to work back from the fridge to find it!


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## donburke (28/3/12)

QldKev said:


> When you shut the fridge door, does it cause the beer lines to push against the disconnects? Hence it only leaks when the door is closed.




its a chest freezer, and i'm sure nothing touches the lines when the lid is closed, but they do bump around a bit when i change kegs, so perhaps it fixed itself ?


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## donburke (28/3/12)

Stux said:


> Yep, sucks. I find the soapy solution sometimes blocks the very fine leaks.
> 
> Use your ear/hand to feel for leaks.
> 
> I had one on my regulator barb. Took me days to work back from the fridge to find it!




i have been to too many live concerts to trust my ears to find something that small,
the bottle has taken approx a month or two to empty, so the leak is quite small, which makes my job even harder


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## MHB (28/3/12)

The most common place to find a leak is the O-Ring on the gas post, the keg can test OK so can the disconnect but when you put the two together it leaks. Mostly caused by pushing the disconnect down, can create little tears or scratches in the surface of the O-Ring.
Put a touch of lube on the post whenever you use it and run your fingers around the O-Ring you can often feel a bit of roughness.
Can be frustrating trying to find leaks I find a lather of some dishwashing liquid and hot water works best, start at the bottle and work your way along every fitting and join from there on down.
Mark


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## cdbrown (28/3/12)

donburke said:


> i have been to too many live concerts to trust my ears to find something that small,
> the bottle has taken approx a month or two to empty, so the leak is quite small, which makes my job even harder



I would say that's quite a large leak. Do you have clamps on all the barbed connections? I found that I get leaks when the line has a bend at the barb, a tight bend will cause the line to deform on the barb and open slightly for a leak. My leak came from the barb on the non return valve as the line bent up to go through the collar - I moved the bottle so that there wasn't such a tight bend and fixed it. My 5kg bottle is just about empty after nearly 2 years.


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## donburke (28/3/12)

MHB said:


> The most common place to find a leak is the O-Ring on the gas post, the keg can test OK so can the disconnect but when you put the two together it leaks. Mostly caused by pushing the disconnect down, can create little tears or scratches in the surface of the O-Ring.
> Put a touch of lube on the post whenever you use it and run your fingers around the O-Ring you can often feel a bit of roughness.
> Can be frustrating trying to find leaks I find a lather of some dishwashing liquid and hot water works best, start at the bottle and work your way along every fitting and join from there on down.
> Mark




i always lube my posts  

i always find it hard to remove the disconnect after the keg has been in the fridge for a month, and to remove it i often have to twist, perhaps this has damaged the o-ring

looks like i've missed the bubbles, so will have to go through the whole process again


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## donburke (28/3/12)

cdbrown said:


> I would say that's quite a large leak. Do you have clamps on all the barbed connections? I found that I get leaks when the line has a bend at the barb, a tight bend will cause the line to deform on the barb and open slightly for a leak. My leak came from the barb on the non return valve as the line bent up to go through the collar - I moved the bottle so that there wasn't such a tight bend and fixed it. My 5kg bottle is just about empty after nearly 2 years.




all my barbs have clamps on them, and i dont have any tight bends
i worked out i'm losing about 40cc of gas per minute, so that should show up with the soapy bubbles


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## donburke (28/3/12)

i am at my wits end

i soaped every single point, connection, barb, seal .... my freezer looked like a bubble bath ... but i found no leak

please help


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## alfadog (28/3/12)

donburke said:


> i am at my wits end
> 
> i soaped every single point, connection, barb, seal .... my freezer looked like a bubble bath ... but i found no leak
> 
> please help



Try what the IT guys do, shut it all down, pull it apart and put it back together


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## pk.sax (28/3/12)

Take the disconnect off first and turn the gas up big to max. Then use soapy water on the disconnect/reg joins and see if there is a gas side leak. Higher pressure might just make you see it. Could also give a false reading where there wasn't a leak before but check the whole thing and you're bound to find them all.

Also, sure the prv isn't buggered?
And the beer side too, it might be slowly leaking gas on the beer side somehow and the bottle just keeps compensating.

I got 4 kegs, carb and dispense out of a half kilo. Some high carb beers there.


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## bradsbrew (28/3/12)

The PRV's on your kegs can be sensitive little pricks, did you check them?


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## donburke (28/3/12)

bradsbrew said:


> The PRV's on your kegs can be sensitive little pricks, did you check them?




i checked all of the above with the pressure set at 200kpa

i am thinking that maybe the leak was between bottle ang reg, which stopped leaking as the bottle pressure dropped

or i have noticed that the micromatic regulator has an outlet that releases pressure when you wind down the pressure, perhaps the gas kept flowing through this valve after i wound down the pressure a few weeks ago ??????????


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## Nick JD (28/3/12)

Put your entire keg system in your bath and fill it with water.


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## donburke (28/3/12)

Nick JD said:


> Put your entire keg system in your bath and fill it with water.




i practically did


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## Wimmig (28/3/12)

Hmm leaks can be tricky to find. The only real way is to pull apart, isolate and rebuild  For all my barbs i use a size too small line, and soak it in boiling water to fit over the join, then use clamps on top. I doubt they could ever leak, though need to be cut off when a full line clean / change happens.

If the kegs are holding pressure for a prolonged period of time with no additional gas entering them, then it's not the kegs. Do you use thread tape at all on your setup?


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## donburke (29/3/12)

Wimmig said:


> Hmm leaks can be tricky to find. The only real way is to pull apart, isolate and rebuild  For all my barbs i use a size too small line, and soak it in boiling water to fit over the join, then use clamps on top. I doubt they could ever leak, though need to be cut off when a full line clean / change happens.
> 
> If the kegs are holding pressure for a prolonged period of time with no additional gas entering them, then it's not the kegs. Do you use thread tape at all on your setup?




i dont use any thread tape, shoudl i be using it for joining the regulator to the bottle ?

i'll swap the bottle over today and try again with the soapy water around the regulator parts


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## MHB (29/3/12)

Never use thread tape on a reg!
They are a face seal and rely on the pressure on the washer between the reg and the bottle to get a seal. Even if you put thread tape on the bottle there is nothing to stop the CO2 leaking out of the back of the nut around the sprue on the regulator.
All thread tape will do is accelerate the stretching of the nut on the reg shortening its life. I wont even fill bottles that come in with thread tape on them, you would get handed a little wire brush and told to get busy, because when people undo the nut they get bits of PTFE everywhere and some of it will wind up in the regulator or when filling - in the bottle (I have had to disassemble a tap to dig out all the bits of Teflon, as well as clean out a couple of regs)
There is no benefit and a couple of good reasons not to, so dont use thread tape OK
Mark


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## donburke (29/3/12)

MHB said:


> Never use thread tape on a reg!
> They are a face seal and rely on the pressure on the washer between the reg and the bottle to get a seal. Even if you put thread tape on the bottle there is nothing to stop the CO2 leaking out of the back of the nut around the sprue on the regulator.
> All thread tape will do is accelerate the stretching of the nut on the reg shortening its life. I won't even fill bottles that come in with thread tape on them, you would get handed a little wire brush and told to get busy, because when people undo the nut they get bits of PTFE everywhere and some of it will wind up in the regulator or when filling - in the bottle (I have had to disassemble a tap to dig out all the bits of Teflon, as well as clean out a couple of regs)
> There is no benefit and a couple of good reasons not to, so don't use thread tape OK
> Mark



OK, message loud and clear  




so last night, i turned all the ball valves on my manifold off and disconnected the regulator from the bottle so i can get it swapped over

each keg has its own gas ball valve, so tonight before i reconnect the gas, i should try pour a beer from each tap, if the problem lies downside of the manifold, then i presume the specific keg wont pour as it would have lost its pressure, is that right ?


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## stux (29/3/12)

donburke said:


> OK, message loud and clear
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If you are patient, (and depending on your reg, works with mine, a tesuco)

Turn off all outlets on your manifold, turn off your gas bottle, then dial your reg back to zero, on my reg that will NOT release the pressure. 

So if I have a leak between manifold and reg the pressure in the line (2nd gauge) will drop over a period (could be days)

If not then you can turn everything on, and half yOur manifold outlets and repeat test. 

Then you can work out which group of outlets has a prOblem. 

Problem for me was a small leak pre manifold


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## donburke (29/3/12)

Stux said:


> If you are patient, (and depending on your reg, works with mine, a tesuco)
> 
> Turn off all outlets on your manifold, turn off your gas bottle, then dial your reg back to zero, on my reg that will NOT release the pressure.
> 
> ...



i'll try that if all my kegs are still pouring fine tonight, and if they are, i presume that the problem will lie upwards of the manifold


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## donburke (29/3/12)

eureka _(greek for 'to vrika' ... "i found it")

_nothing like a full bottle to flush out the leaks

OK, so all my kegs were pouring fine, except for one, which wasnt fully carbed, this was pouring slower as the beer would have absorbed the pressure in the headspace


so i connected my new bottle up, leaving the manifolds shut, and turned the bottle on, set to a pressure of 150 kpa and then turned the bottle off

after 15 minutes the high pressure dial started to drop, whilst the low pressure guage stayed constant

i though the problem was where the reg joins the bottle, so i got my soapy water out and tested that join ... only to find nothing

i started to move down the chain ... and then ... bubble bubble bubble

the regulator has a little hole here ...





this an exit point for gas to be released when you reduce the pressure in the regulator, it lets the excess pressure from the keg headspace vent back up the line and through this hole

well, you would expect the gas to stop flowing when the pressure equalises, but it just keeps flowing, obviously a faulty regulator

looks like i didnt pick it up with my soapy water first time round as the bottle pressure from the near empty bottle wasnt enough to force the leak

bottle now turned off until i replace the regulator


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## Cocko (29/3/12)

Glad you got it sorted Don, this thread has been making me want to cut myself......

Good Stuff! :beerbang:


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## donburke (29/3/12)

Cocko said:


> View attachment 53393
> 
> 
> 
> ...



this was painful, but painless in comparison to the phil jones fiasco

another happy ending


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## Cocko (29/3/12)

PJIAC.


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## donburke (29/3/12)

Cocko said:


> View attachment 53394
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i love happy endings too, but i tell my my wife that they are therapeutic massages


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## NewtownClown (5/11/13)

Rather than start a new topic on a oft posted query that has not had a definitive response that I can find...

Does anybody know the approximate weight of a Keg King 6.0 Kg Co2 cylinder, either empty or full? After recently swapping a 2.6 Kg bottle for the 6 Kg, I neglected to weigh the bloody thing.

One post states that KK claims (over the phone) they are approx 20.3 Kg full, however, my cylinder currently weighs in at 20 Kg after 2 months and at least 6 kegs carbed and dispensed which would have used more than 300 grams of Co2...


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## manticle (5/11/13)

Can't answer your question but what was the weight of your 2.6 empty and full?


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## NewtownClown (5/11/13)

approx 10.1 Kg full and 7.4 Kg empty


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## manticle (5/11/13)

Cheers. I weighed mine when empty (pretty much the same as yours) but forgot to weigh it after my first refill.


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## GrumpyPaul (5/11/13)

Ive got a 6kg supgas customer owned bottle.

When i got it filled last time the guy weighed it and wrote the weight in marker pen on it for me.

The full wieght is 28.7kg


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## NewtownClown (5/11/13)

Manticle,
LOL. Damn!
Glad to help, but was wondering how you were going to use those specs to magically get the answer I seek. Duh!


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## NewtownClown (5/11/13)

GrumpyPaul said:


> Ive got a 6kg supgas customer owned bottle.
> 
> When i got it filled last time the guy weighed it and wrote the weight in marker pen on it for me.
> 
> The full wieght is 28.7kg


Thanks for trying...
Obviously a different brand bottle has a different tare weight.
By your figures I have used nearly 9 KG of gas from a bottle with a capacity of 6kg!


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## manticle (5/11/13)

Sorry about that. I am an opportunist.


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## NewtownClown (5/11/13)




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## NewtownClown (5/11/13)

bump for the arvo crowd


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## Camo6 (5/11/13)

Sounds like KK might have their weights wrong or more than one make of bottle. I recently changed my bottle over as the reg had been reading empty for a couple of weeks and Yuri estimated I still had over 2 kilo left. I didn't take the chance and swapped it over anyway.

Just went and weighed mine. Probably won't help but it's 19.15 Kg and has carbed maybe 4 or 5 kegs.


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