# Font Mounted Cpbf For Filling Any Bottle



## Nick JD (11/11/11)

After recieving an adapter from Batz icon_cheers to fill crown top bottles, of which I have none, and seeing my large collection of Grolsch bottles are about to gather dust I thought I'd try my hand at adapting the font mounted counter pressure bottle filler to work with any bottle. The aim here is to use the bottom of the bottle to provide upward pressure to seal the rim ... not the neck of the bottle.

So here goes. I'm halfway finished at this stage; and it's only a prototype to see if it works and holds a seal - so please excuse the plywood, etc. The final one will be made from that choppingboard plastic, probably - or well sealed wood.

At Bunnings I got a PVC pipe thingo that has an internal diameter of 42mm. This is the same as the outer diameter of the sleeve mechanism on the CPBF.

The pics are self-explanitory.







I drilled a 5mm hole and used the CPBF's roller screw to cut a 6mm thread in the soft PVC.






The braces are just some Al angle cut with a hacksaw. 

The roller screw threads in with a couple of washers as the PVC is slightly thinner than the CPBF sleeve and I don't want the thread shredding the plastic roller bushing.






With the bushing inserted in the helical doohicky in the CPBF sleeve, and the screw in, the CPBF turns instead of the sleeve. If that makes sense.











CPBF up.






CPBF down.






Now all that's needed is to mount this on the top of a box. The box will have a sliding base that can be set high up for stubbies, or low down for champers or magnums or 2L PET. And somewhere in the middle for longnecks and Grolsch swingtops.

Total cost so far, about $3.50


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## Florian (11/11/11)

I feel like an idiot but I don't understand.

EDIT: Ahh, think i got it now. Will be interesting to see how exactly that box works. You could just insert different sized layers of plywood or the likes under the bottles I guess?


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## NickB (11/11/11)

I didn't either, but I think what he's getting at is that the piece that he's fabricated will be the top of a box or enclosure, and that the bottle will sit flat against the bottom of the box, with the CPBF coming down to the top of the bottle... At least that's how I read it.

Personally, I'd look at a small stainless collar similar to what you have unless the grolsch bottles have a neck that is too long...

Cheers


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## Florian (11/11/11)

NickB said:


> I didn't either, but I think what he's getting at is that the piece that he's fabricated will be the top of a box or enclosure, and that the bottle will sit flat against the bottom of the box, with the CPBF coming down to the top of the bottle... At least that's how I read it.



Yep, that's how I got it now as well, see edit.



NickB said:


> Personally, I'd look at a small stainless collar similar to what you have unless the grolsch bottles have a neck that is too long...


So you mean similar to taking 3 or 5 washers from Batz and stacking them together? That would work on quite a few other bottles but I think the neck on the grolsch ones is too long as you suspect.

Good to see Nick (JD) is approaching this from a different angle though. 

Without wanting to hijack, one idea I unsuccessfully trialled about six month ago was cutting the top of a PET bottle and basically trying to insert a silicone mould inside the top, so you could push a glass bottle into the PET top and then attach it as normal to the CPBF. I gave up after about 5 moulds but I'm sure with a bit of persisting and maybe different materials it should be doable.


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## booargy (11/11/11)

a lever and a weight like the old hanging balance scale. weight on the back of the box lever going through push down on front of lever insert bottle. the weight or fulcrum point can be moved to adjust pressure on the bottle. the box holds the bottle straight. :blink:


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## Nick JD (11/11/11)

Yup, you guys have it.

Picture a box as tall as a champers bottle. On top there's the CPBF - and the whole CPBF rotates, lowering the seal onto the bottle. 

Within that box is a platform that slides from the top to the bottom. A wingnut on a bolt traveling up a channel in the box means the platform can be locked at any height. Of course, the "usual" bottles can be marked so the platform can be slid up and locked. 

PET can take quite a bit of downward pressure. This was a concern, but I'm reasonably sure they are stronger than the seal pressure needed before they collapse or deform.

I'm trying to abstract the bottle from the device.


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## Thirsty Boy (12/11/11)

Nick - have a look at the site of the company that make the CP filler of which these font mounted ones are a cheap knock-off. 

They have a different device for filling glass bottles, growlers etc that is very similar to what I think you are proposing and maybe it will give you a few clues and save you some re-inventing work/effort/trouble. These units are in place in a few of the growler fill places in Melbourne and look like absolute winners to me.

Here's links.

http://pegasdistusa.com/?page_id=2
http://beerinnovations.com/beerequipment/b...spensers/images

With the PET bottles in your variation - even if the aren't strong enough to take the full pressure, as soon as you can get them to hold even a little pressure, that will stiffen them up and you can then clamp them tighter to hold a higher pressure. I dont think you'll have an issues. Nice kludging.


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## Nick JD (12/11/11)

Thirsty Boy said:


> Nice kludging.



Thanks, Thirsty. I hadn't seen those growler fillers before ... but in the back of my mind an a few US micro visits, I might have seen one in the corner of my eye and this is subliminal.

EDIT: now I'm thinking I need a perspex door.


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## Nick JD (12/11/11)

So here's stage two. I can't put full pressure on it yet because the glue has only had an hour or two, and most glues need 24 hours before stressing joints.

This is nearly the shortest bottle I have, although I think my little 300ml PETs are shorter - so it will fill a 250ml stubbie at the top - and a 2L PET at the bottom.






Here's the platform adjustment wingnut.






And of course the holy grail ... a swingtop filler!






Does weird neck fills too. Might do the next version really fat - growlers would be good to take to BBQs/parties.






Can get quite a bit of pressure on it. The seal ring starts to deform a bit, so I reckon it'll work. After seeing Thirsty's links I might put a perspex door on it, just in case.






All up it cost under $10.


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## Thefatdoghead (12/11/11)

Nice work mate. I just bought one and was wondering how I was going to fill my 750ml swing tops. So you just use muscle power to apply pressure on the seal do then lock the wingnut hey? Just wondering how much pressure you need for a good seal?


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## Frag_Dog (12/11/11)

Looks good.

I wonder if you could have the bottle platform on some sort of cam that would allow you to set the height, unlock the cam, allowing the platform to lower an inch or so, insert the bottle, lock the cam, and fill.

Disclamer: I don't have a CPBF and I've had a few... :icon_drunk:


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## Thefatdoghead (12/11/11)

Frag_Dog said:


> Looks good.
> 
> I wonder if you could have the bottle platform on some sort of cam that would allow you to set the height, unlock the cam, allowing the platform to lower an inch or so, insert the bottle, lock the cam, and fill.
> 
> Disclamer: I don't have a CPBF and I've had a few... :icon_drunk:


I seen these drop saw's with a vice that has a nut that you can turn and the thread slides straight through the nut then you swing the nut back the other way and screw the vice tight. Would be ideal for a rig like this one Nick has done. Might try make one at work.


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## Nick JD (13/11/11)

Gav80 said:


> Nice work mate. I just bought one and was wondering how I was going to fill my 750ml swing tops. So you just use muscle power to apply pressure on the seal do then lock the wingnut hey? Just wondering how much pressure you need for a good seal?



The CPBF rotates, lowering and sealing (it's on a roller "thread"), so if you want to fill 12 Grolsch bottles you set the platform and leave it there. The height adjustment is only needed when changing bottle heights.

I've retained the rotaing and locking mechanism from the original design.

Up.






And then when you turn it anticlockwise ... down/sealed.


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## Florian (13/11/11)

Looking at it again it's actually a really good idea. Will be interested to know how you go with it in 'day to day filling'.


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## Thefatdoghead (13/11/11)

Nick JD said:


> The CPBF rotates, lowering and sealing (it's on a roller "thread"), so if you want to fill 12 Grolsch bottles you set the platform and leave it there. The height adjustment is only needed when changing bottle heights.
> 
> I've retained the rotaing and locking mechanism from the original design.
> 
> ...


Oh I see. Awesome work mate hope you don't mind me copying your idea. It's nice and easy.


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## Batz (13/11/11)

OK guys there was another seven letters waiting for me this weekend, all now in the post with a washer and a Batz brewery sticker

Hope to catch you Adelaide brewers at the Wheatie in a couple of weeks time.  

Batz


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## MastersBrewery (13/12/11)

hey Nick JD was wondering if you, got any further with the development of this ....would love to see some shots of the final product :beerbang:


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## Nick JD (13/12/11)

MastersBrewery said:


> hey Nick JD was wondering if you, got any further with the development of this ....would love to see some shots of the final product :beerbang:



The only further development is I gave the whole thing a coat of epoxy to waterproof it. 

I've filled a dozen or so bottles so far with only one issue - the sliding base is only locked with one wingnut and washer. It's possible to generate enough downward sealing pressure to make it slip, and this can be annoying, so I'm going to add another locking bolt. Usually, I'm filling a bunch of the same bottles, so only the first one needs to be set up.

I'll fill a few bottles tomorrow and take some photos of the process.


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## Frag_Dog (14/12/11)

Looks really good NickJD. Have you tried filling a growler with on of these?


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## jacknohe (14/12/11)

That's fantastic! I've been thinking about getting a CP filler but wanted a solution for different sized/type bottles. Hmmm, this may have sold it for me.

As I was reading through the post, a thought crossed my mind. I was wondering if it would be beneficial to perhaps have the CP filler on a movable slide and have the bottom of the bottle hard against the bottom of the frame or bench/table. Much like a bench bottle capper where you would adjust the height of the CP filler according to the bottle size.


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## Nick JD (14/12/11)

Frag_Dog said:


> Have you tried filling a growler with on of these?



It's not fat enough - champaign bottle is the biggest this will fit. It'd just need a bigger box. The principle is the same though, so it'd work fine.


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## Nick JD (14/12/11)

jacknohe said:


> That's fantastic! I've been thinking about getting a CP filler but wanted a solution for different sized/type bottles. Hmmm, this may have sold it for me.
> 
> As I was reading through the post, a thought crossed my mind. I was wondering if it would be beneficial to perhaps have the CP filler on a movable slide and have the bottom of the bottle hard against the bottom of the frame or bench/table. Much like a bench bottle capper where you would adjust the height of the CP filler according to the bottle size.



You'd need to have the bottle against the bottom of the box, or it'd just lift the box when you turned the CPBF if it was on the bench/table. You might also have an issue when doing very short bottles because the CPBF's hoses all come off on wacky angles and would jam in the box. Could be done, I think it might be a little more complicated though.


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## TidalPete (14/12/11)

Nick JD said:


> It's not fat enough - champaign bottle is the biggest this will fit. It'd just need a bigger box. The principle is the same though, so it'd work fine.



Maybe big dia PVC pipe with an end cap to suit? Can't see why not? Must do some measurements soon.

TP


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## Nick JD (14/12/11)

TidalPete said:


> Maybe big dia PVC pipe with an end cap to suit? Can't see why not? Must do some measurements soon.
> 
> TP



Good idea - slide the growler in, clip on the "filler unit" seal and fill. That'd take care of alignment too.

I'd be keen to have a door on mine for a growler with the CO2 turned up to double serving pressure ... I fill with safety glasses on.

EDIT: what about the handle? And is there a PVC that diameter? Sewer pipe? Something that I didn't think would be the case is just how much downward pressure you need (and the CPBF can give) to seal at 150kPa.


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## TidalPete (14/12/11)

Nick JD said:


> Good idea - slide the growler in, clip on the "filler unit" seal and fill. That'd take care of alignment too.
> 
> I'd be keen to have a door on mine for a growler with the CO2 turned up to double serving pressure ... I fill with safety glasses on.
> 
> EDIT: what about the handle? And is there a PVC that diameter? Sewer pipe? Something that I didn't think would be the case is just how much downward pressure you need (and the CPBF can give) to seal at 150kPa.



Only gone into this briefly because my Stones growler is wide (158mm) with a long neck. Will be taking it up to Bunnings soon to see what's on hand.
If fortunate enough to find the right dia pipe I would prefer 2 x slots opposite each other for extra strength & make the base out of thick perspex\waterproof ply or similar & reinforce underneath similar to what you did.
At times like these it's a good idea to be mates with a ss sheetmetal worker.  
As for a handle --- a ss csk hd mt screw & a standard black beer tap handle would work. PVC pressure pipe walls are quite thick. You could tap the handle to suit the thread on the mt screw.
A door! --- heat a bit of clear perspex around the OD of the pipe with a hair dryer & attach with ss hinges & ss csk hd pop rivets popped from the inside. And a catch of some sort of course.  
Just off the top of my head ATM but I reckon all this depends on finding the right dia pipe for your needs.

Just curious --- why double serving pressure? I fill at my serving pressure of 80 Kps without problems? 

TP


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## Nick JD (14/12/11)

TidalPete said:


> Just curious --- why double serving pressure? I fill at my serving pressure of 80 Kps without problems?
> 
> TP



Dunno really. Heard it was the done thing. Perhaps to ensure that you get at least your dissolved CO2 level? 

Anyone know why this is touted? (said so in my "chinstructions")

Oh, and Pete - I meant the growler's handle.


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## TidalPete (14/12/11)

Nick JD said:


> Dunno really. Heard it was the done thing. Perhaps to ensure that you get at least your dissolved CO2 level?
> 
> Anyone know why this is touted? (said so in my "chinstructions")
> 
> Oh, and Pete - I meant the growler's handle.



Different growlers, different shapes I would think Nick? Don't anticipate the handle of my Stones GROWLER getting in the way? Sounds like the handle on your growler is closer to the neck?
Chewed things over while having a surf & it clicked! Higher pressure would mean the carbonation in the bottle would last longer I think? :unsure: Was told this was the case when filling straight from the tap but not sure if it would apply when filling from a CPBF? 
Anyone?

TP


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## AndrewQLD (14/12/11)

TidalPete said:


> Different growlers, different shapes I would think Nick? Don't anticipate the handle of my Stones GROWLER getting in the way? Sounds like the handle on your growler is closer to the neck?
> Chewed things over while having a surf & it clicked! Higher pressure would mean the carbonation in the bottle would last longer I think? :unsure: Was told this was the case when filling straight from the tap but not sure if it would apply when filling from a CPBF?
> Anyone?
> 
> TP



I remember this discussion from a while back, Jye gave a pretty good explanation.



> Using it at a higher pressure will pretty much eliminate any foaming. If you use it at carbonation pressure then you will get foaming since cracking the bung to release some pressure from the bottle exposes the beer to a pressure lower than its carbing pressure, thus allowing it to release co2 and foam. Operating at a higher pressure never allows the beer to see a lower than carbing pressure and you can also fill quicker since you can have a greater pressure differential between supplied pressure and vent pressure.



From Here


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## Nick JD (14/12/11)

AndrewQLD said:


> I remember this discussion from a while back, Jye gave a pretty good explanation.
> 
> 
> 
> From Here



AHA! Thanks Andrew. :icon_cheers: Makes sense.

I just did a few to give to a mate for being my bottle supplier (owns a board factory, so they go through shitloads of crowntop euros) and I filled at 100kPa (my serving pressure is about 60). I get almost zero foaming, to the point where I can't "cap on foam", there just isn't any.


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## Nick JD (14/12/11)

Here's how it goes.

The CPBF 2.0 goes on the stove which is next to the fridge. You might have guessed that this would be Stovetop Bottling. 







Underneath the taps is a 10mm hole that's usually covered with a fridge magnet. 






In goes the BEER line and I chuck on an OUT quick disconnect and attach it to the keg I'm bottling from.






My gas bottle has a 3-way where I have a permament gas QD for purging kegs for storage and force carbing. I take that off and put on the CPBF gas line.


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## MarkBastard (14/12/11)

Haha, I love the use of bronco faucets as fridge taps. It's ghetto but I bet they're better than any other tap available in the world in a lot of ways.


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## Nick JD (14/12/11)

So here's the CPBF with the lines attached. 






A glass goes under the filler and the tap's opened to fill the line with beer (shock-horror, it's a 4% cross between XXXX and Carlton - half cluster and PoR).






Bottle goes in; CPBF turned anticlockwise to seal.






Whole thing turned sideways so if it blows the fridge takes the blast, not MY EYES B) Give it a quick fart or two to blow out the O2.






Filling. Bugger all foamz.






Almost zero foamz.






Into the SUPERAUTOMATICA that I bought just so I could have an excuse to use that word often. SUPERAUTOMATICA! Sounds like slang for an AK47 if you put on an Afghani accent. "Hai KEEEL you wit my SUPERAUTOMATICA."






Done. One sweet bottle of Aussie Lager to be drunken straight out of the bottle, of course. There's no aroma anyway.


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## Nick JD (14/12/11)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Haha, I love the use of bronco faucets as fridge taps. It's ghetto but I bet they're better than any other tap available in the world in a lot of ways.



They pour with a super-fine creamy foam. I could get lacing with sodawater.


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## MarkBastard (14/12/11)

Yeah I used one for a few years just inside my chest freezer. I miss them in a lot of ways. So convenient.

I've seen fridges that have a sort of window for easily accessing juice / milk or whatever without having to open the fridge door. Silly gimmick but if you used one as a keg fridge you could have the ends of the bronco taps sitting in there and then just open the little door whenever you pour a beer without letting all of the cold out.


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## Nick JD (14/12/11)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Yeah I used one for a few years just inside my chest freezer. I miss them in a lot of ways. So convenient.
> 
> I've seen fridges that have a sort of window for easily accessing juice / milk or whatever without having to open the fridge door. Silly gimmick but if you used one as a keg fridge you could have the ends of the bronco taps sitting in there and then just open the little door whenever you pour a beer without letting all of the cold out.



I mounted those two into some tassie oak. They go in like a key; sideways then twist to lock. Can remove them in 2 seconds for a napisan soak.


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## TidalPete (14/12/11)

AndrewQLD said:


> I remember this discussion from a while back, Jye gave a pretty good explanation.
> 
> From Here



Thanks for the link Andrew. That was just a distant memory to me. :icon_cheers: 
With this CPBF I just fill slowly at normal serving pressure ala Florian & get hardly any foam at all. 

Been to Bunnings checking out PVC pipe to fit over my Stones growler & not finding any except the 200mm which is pretty bulky. Frankly I don't think I'll bother as with my CPBF I can fill pets & tallies so that's good enough for me ATM. 
When filled, the contents of both my growlers are normally consumed within 24 hours anyway so there's hardly any point in making up a special "growler adaptor".
Having said that, Nick JD's invention is certainly a good one & there's probably lots of growlers around that WILL fit inside 150mm PVC pipe it's just that my favourite one won't.  

TP


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## Frag_Dog (16/12/11)

That looks really good. I think I'm going to have to steal the bulk of the design. One possible option for the sliding floor...

Measure out the height of the majority of the bottles you fill it with. Drill holes in the sides of the box and have dowel or steel rods you insert to lock the base at that height. Adjustment would be more time consuming but movement wouldn't be an issue.

Maybe a clear plastic "blast door" as well :blink:


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## Nick JD (16/12/11)

Frag_Dog said:


> Maybe a clear plastic "blast door" as well :blink:



I've got some 5mm clear perspex for the blast door, but I have to shave a tad off the sliding base as it sticks out slightly. 

The second bolt and wingnut on the slider worked a treat. No movement now.

Make it from something water resistant too - like choppingboard PE or similar. This one is more a proof of concept thing.


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## Florian (16/12/11)

Frag_Dog said:


> One possible option for the sliding floor...
> 
> Measure out the height of the majority of the bottles you fill it with. Drill holes in the sides of the box and have dowel or steel rods you insert to lock the base at that height. Adjustment would be more time consuming but movement wouldn't be an issue.



Or even better just get the small shelving holder thingies IKEA uses on all their shelving. You get them at Bunnings too. 

something like this

or the plastic version of it.


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## Nick JD (16/12/11)

Florian said:


> Or even better just get the small shelving holder thingies IKEA uses on all their shelving. You get them at Bunnings too.
> 
> something like this
> 
> or the plastic version of it.



That'd work a treat. You'd need a lot of them - and a database of all the bottle heights. Some of them a painful - Stella and Carlsberg bottles are _almost_ the same height, but enough out to need to adjust the base. 

You could always stagger the support lugs if they got in the way of each other, or there wasn't enough room between them for the thickness of the base. The filler has about 10mm of vertical movement, but you need at least 5mm of that to get a seal.

Which reminds me. Why did the walrus go to the tupperware party? 

To find a tight seal.


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## Florian (16/12/11)

I only would get four of them. Drill two holes on each side for each of your bottle heights. Then just slot these thingies into the right height holes and put your base on top. 
You could even write the name of the bottle type next to the holes, then you don't need a data base. 
If the bottle heights of two bottles are so close that you can't drill two sets of holes above each other, just drill them slightly to the side.


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## Nick JD (16/12/11)

Florian said:


> ...just drill them slightly to the side.



That's the go.


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## punkin (17/12/11)

If you only have a few different bottle heighs, say pints, longnecks, poly bottles and champagne bottles, a good way to do it would be to make a set of spacers to fit under a shelf floor. So have a base and a loose floor and then just cut a few different lengths of sewer pipe or something?

No good if you have a dozen bottles, but easy enough and quick as lightning to change if there's only 4-6 different heights.


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## beerDingo (29/6/12)

Hey Nick,

Just wondering how this is going, as I'm thinking of stealing your design and making something similar.

Have you made changes to how it works? Or is it working as you want?

cheers
beerDingo


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## Thefatdoghead (16/7/12)

Made this today while the mash was on.








The screw is 6mm metric tap so I just tapped it into the piece of pipe. The plate on top of the rig is stainless steel I made at work. Just used some cheap ply to see how the design would go. All those hoses swinging in the breeze is going to give me the shits in the end I reckon and ill want something more permanent but it's still a great solution for filling the swing tops and all types of bottles. 
Just need to get the hose and bolt for the platform and it's good to go. Has anyone got experience of how long a bottle will stay carbed for when filled from the cpbf?
Thanks again Nick for the idea how is yours going anyway?

Gav


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## razz (16/7/12)

I haven't used mine with flip top bottles like the one in the pic Gav but I do use PET's and the longest I've kept one was two months. Good carb, no worries!


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## Thefatdoghead (16/7/12)

razz said:


> I haven't used mine with flip top bottles like the one in the pic Gav but I do use PET's and the longest I've kept one was two months. Good carb, no worries!



2 months is good enough for me!


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## Nick JD (16/7/12)

Gav80 said:


> Thanks again Nick for the idea how is yours going anyway?
> 
> Gav



Still goin' strong, Gav.


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## Thefatdoghead (16/7/12)

Nick JD said:


> Still goin' strong, Gav.


Nice. My old boy will be stoked, he always comes over and fill's them flip top's out of the tap so now he'll be able to do it properly and not have to worry about drinking them in 1 night. 
Iv'e tried bottle conditioning and maybe im a spastic but i just can't get away from that Dextrose flavour after priming them. Bad experiences with K&K or maybe I just know that dex taste to well....I don't know but I just cant do it right. Anyway stoked I have the cpbf nearly going.


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## beerDingo (16/2/18)

Hey, I bought one of these things years ago, and left it at a mates to do the build. That never happened... Now the original pics are not available. Does anyone have any pics or updated info on this?


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