# Terrorist Killings in Paris



## wobbly (14/11/15)

The world must take much stronger retaliatory action against ISIL follows where ever they reside. Other countries must also understand the ever growing risk their citizens face as a result of the Islamic extremists that are spreading across the world like a cancer. It's unacceptable for these so called "peace loving moderates" and their extremists cousins to able to use western society laws and systems to remain in countries and wage hatred and murder.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/13/shootings-reported-in-eastern-paris-live


Will be very interesting to watch how France and the rest of Europe responds

Wobbly


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## JDW81 (14/11/15)

I may well be re-thinking my end of year jaunt to Paris given the events of the last 24h.


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## Bridges (14/11/15)

It's so hard to fathom how people want to do this to each other...


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## Mardoo (14/11/15)

Notions of perfection and attempts to get there. Perfection is the root of all evil. Fuckers.


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## SBOB (14/11/15)

JDW81 said:


> I may well be re-thinking my end of year jaunt to Paris given the events of the last 24h.


though in reality you're statistically more likely to suffer injury (or worse) from your drive to the airport than either the flight or a terrorist


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## real_beer (14/11/15)

After the 9/11 attacks in America I decided I wasn't going to let cowards like them ruin my life with fear and hate. Fear and chaos is the reaction they want so don't give them the satisfaction to feed off. Round them up and dispose of them quickly when their found guilty, 1 month tops before execution, you can't reason with someone who has no humanity in them. I can only imagine how terrible it must be for the normal everyday peace loving people living in the Middle East being overrun by them. Sadly they will be the main group who will now become the collateral damage when the west retaliates.

Heaven & Hell all comes either from the love or darkness of the human mind, these people are so much in the dark a Sun 1,000 times larger than Earth Sun couldn't penetrate their hatred!

I used to be a big fan of the SBS program Global Village and seeing all the different 'ordinary working people' cultures around the world in their everyday lives. It was great, all most people want to do is work and put food on the table for their family and enjoy life the best they can, sadly I think a lot of Australians will now close their hearts to innocent people like this for good and lump them all together with the ISIL pigs as people not to be trusted. It's understandable of course. Well the world has now changed for good and France will react like a rabid dog out for blood and maybe the rest of the world should unite and join them, Russia, China, Indonesia, Japan ........... everyone, once and for all take a united stand to stamp them out as much as possible. I hate thinking of war but it looks like we're well and truly stuck with it now


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## Kingy (14/11/15)

The war has already started. This planet is/has been going in the wrong direction for years. It's not to be focused/dwelled on tho. Must try to enjoy every new moment like its our last. 
Wouldn't it be great if there was no currency and everyone across the planet were great friends and we all got along with each other with no dramas.


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## Bribie G (14/11/15)

Ebony and Ivory, .....

Any words from the Grand Mufti yet?


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## Batz (14/11/15)

Kingy said:


> The war has already started. This planet is/has been going in the wrong direction for years. It's not to be focused/dwelled on tho. Must try to enjoy every new moment like its our last.
> Wouldn't it be great if there was no currency and everyone across the planet were great friends and we all got along with each other with no dramas.


Yes it would Kingy, but there are so many nasty bitter people who you may even call your friends ATM. Such a shame some people find hatred their preferred emotion.
A sorry world we live in, lucky we can brew hey?


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## spog (14/11/15)

Gutless pathetic mongrels, scratch pathetic ...just gutless mongrels.

Add lower than whale shit.


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## Dave70 (14/11/15)

Bribie G said:


> Ebony and Ivory, .....
> 
> Any words from the Grand Mufti yet?


As his appointed spokesman I would just like to assure the community that these latest attacks are in no way connected to the religion of islam.


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## Batz (14/11/15)

What I find hard to understand is what good this has done for these people. Has it stopped or slowed a war? Has it helped people to understand another religion? Did it help in anyway achieve your goals? Or was it just murder of innocent people?
I mean what did this achieve?

I think these people are just dumb **** arseholes.
Hatred will never help this world.

Batz


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## Kumamoto_Ken (14/11/15)

.


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## Dave70 (14/11/15)

Batz said:


> I thing these people are just dumb **** arseholes.
> 
> Batz


Look up the CVs of the 9/11 murderers, middle class uni graduates to a man, eight had degrees in engineering. 
Be far easier if they were all dumbfuck arseholes. We could just parachute cheap android tablets into war zones playing loops of Keeping up with the Kardashians and pick them off while they sat there pre occupied by Bruce Jenners sex change.


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## Batz (14/11/15)

Dave70 said:


> Look up the CVs of the 9/11 murderers, middle class uni graduates to a man, eight had degrees in engineering.
> Be far easier if they were all dumbfuck arseholes. We could just parachute cheap android tablets into war zones playing loops of Keeping up with the Kardashians and pick them off while they sat there pre occupied by Bruce Jenners sex change.


Do you think the people who did this in France where uni graduates? And if they were do you think that makes
them intelligent? Sad how some people see perceive intelligent.



> 9/11 murderers, middle class uni graduates to a man, eight had degrees in engineering.


Perhaps we should hand out some awards.


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## slcmorro (14/11/15)

JDW81 said:


> I may well be re-thinking my end of year jaunt to Paris given the events of the last 24h.


No offense, but that's just what 'they' want. My wife and I were there a month ago, and regardless of what occurred previously or what will occur in the future I'm a firm believe of wrong place, wrong time. Don't fly into Syria or Lebanon for goodness sake, but please don't be perturbed by visiting just because of recent events.

If you forever do this, people won't travel anywhere. Many atrocities have occurred over various sites, yet you don't see people avoiding the block where the Lindt Siege took place do you? People still ride the Tube in London etc etc.


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## Engibeer (14/11/15)

Religion.


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## Batz (14/11/15)

Engibeer said:


> Religion.


Your closer than "middle class uni graduates"


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## technobabble66 (14/11/15)

Batz said:


> What I find hard to understand is what good this has done for these people. Has it stopped or slowed a war? Has it helped people to understand another religion? Did it help in anyway achieve your goals? Or was it just murder of innocent people?
> I mean what did this achieve?


Without wanting to state the obvious, they're terrorist extremists of a death cult.
The _entire_ point of the exercise is to _polarise communities_. And I'd say they're about to be very successful, sadly.

They're not representatives of Islam or any other religion any more than the KKK are of Christianity - I don't want to sound like a bleeding heart liberal desperately trying to defend the perpetrators of horrific crimes, etc; but i'm just try to identify the root cause of the problem rather than be distracted by the symptoms.

They're like a pathological, insidious, death-cult social virus. Islam is the means of expression, or the means of an excuse. The sole "aim" is to polarise and spread it's destructive mentality - regardless of who is killing who. Kind of like a mass psychosis. As much as i dislike Abbott, i'd say the one thing he got right was describing them as a Death Cult. I'm not sure they're even fully aware half the time of their true nature. Maybe most of them think they're fighting some sort of revenge Crusade. 

I'd definitely say they need excised and cleansed from humanity. But I'd just say the only thing worse than allowing them to live/spread would be to persecute innocents thinking they were part of the problem.


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## Droopy Brew (14/11/15)

Religion is simply the vehicle used by savage murderers and psycopaths to justify their actions and recruit others into doing their filthy deeds.


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## wide eyed and legless (15/11/15)

Funny thing human nature,we just glance over the recent suicide bombings in Lebanon, the countless thousands killed in Syria and Iraq, seems its alright until they make attacks on our 'Tribe', even though they are French, speak in a different language we still identify with them. 
Obama will still sit on his hands, not show any leadership, the same as the recent shootings in America, that died down quickly, its up to the world superpower to say enough is enough and take up the challenge of getting in amongst the IS with the allies and putting them to the sword. But with only a year left in office I can't see Obama wanting to rock the boat, Droopy Brew is right, the leaders of IS aren't interested in religion, just the power and greed for wealth, religion is just a tool to recruit the unwary to do their evil deeds.

Oh and today's news that one of the suicide bombers passport was found close by determining him to be a recent refugee who came through Greece from Syria, I just cant imagine a suicide bomber going through his check list, gun, ammo, bomb and I had better not forget my passport.


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## Dave70 (15/11/15)

Batz said:


> Do you think the people who did this in France where uni graduates? And if they were do you think that makes
> them intelligent? Sad how some people see perceive intelligent.
> 
> 
> Perhaps we should hand out some awards.


We'll see. In any case, truly stupid people dont graduate university, nor earn degrees in engineering. Religious fanaticism and intelligence arent mutually exclusive.
I'll guarantee you these killers didn't just text one another that morning and decide today would be a good day to pop up in six different locations and start murdering civilians. This was, as are all attacks of this nature, highly planned sophisticated operations. The higher ups are never the ones wearing the nailbomb vests, its the low level shit kickers who have the privileged of being 'martyrs'. 


Yeah why not. They gave a Nobel Peace prize to Kissinger in 73, Yasser Arafat in 94 and Vlaidmar Putin has currently been nominated for a shiny coin. Funny old world isnt it?


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## goomboogo (15/11/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Funny thing human nature,we just glance over the recent suicide bombings in Lebanon, the countless thousands killed in Syria and Iraq, seems its alright until they make attacks on our 'Tribe',


I made a similar comment this morning regarding the news coverage from all our local services. I don't begrudge significant coverage of any such event but the inconsistency of coverage sheds a light on the geographical prioritising of caring.


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## Ducatiboy stu (15/11/15)

I can just imagine the mood in Europe over the next weeks as some sectors will blame all the refugees or link them to the attack

Its the refugees that are going to suffer the most now


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## Bridges (15/11/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Its the refugees that are going to suffer the most now


When don't they?


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## mondestrunken (15/11/15)

I've been thinking a lot of bad things in the last few days about this bullshit (as I'm sure we all have). But this guy writes what I really think:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/comment/view-from-the-street/view-from-the-street-god-damn-it-we-need-to-be-kind-20151115-gkzh9i.html


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## tavas (15/11/15)

Dave70 said:


> Look up the CVs of the 9/11 murderers, middle class uni graduates to a man, eight had degrees in engineering.
> Be far easier if they were all dumbfuck arseholes. We could just parachute cheap android tablets into war zones playing loops of Keeping up with the Kardashians and pick them off while they sat there pre occupied by Bruce Jenners sex change.


Isn't that what they're doing to us?


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## Dave70 (16/11/15)

tavas said:


> Isn't that what they're doing to us?


Pretty much. Only IS remove the whole head not instead of just the brain.


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## skb (16/11/15)

JDW81 said:


> I may well be re-thinking my end of year jaunt to Paris given the events of the last 24h.


I am here now not sure what to say... Emotions running high I am sure it will be safe but not the same, it is how you will feel if you can be comfortable you should come as not coming is a slight victory to the idiots. 

I want to be careful in what I say but I will say we need to be more honest with ourselves and political correctness is Killing us. There are good people on every culture but let's face it some beliefs are more prone to hatred and facts should let us say that. Right now not a good time for me to have perspective so I will stop


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## pist (16/11/15)

I have nothing to say on this issue for the sake of keeping discussion flame-free, as my views conflict with the general consensus on here, other than **** ALL RELIGION, its nothing but bullshit. Been the cause of some of the darkest shit in the history of the human race.


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## goomboogo (16/11/15)

pist said:


> I have nothing to say on this issue for the sake of keeping discussion flame-free, as my views conflict with the general consensus on here, other than **** ALL RELIGION, its nothing but bullshit. Been the cause of some of the darkest shit in the history of the human race.


Religion is a poison in the veins of humanity. However, ridding ourselves of the disease that is religion will not come close to bringing about a cure for all the misdeeds of man.


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## Mattress (16/11/15)

This guy is making sense

http://tenplay.com.au/channel-ten/the-project/extra/season-7/what-isil-wants


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## Eagleburger (16/11/15)

Been too much of this shit. Havent read a single item about it besides this thread and a few headlines. Dont even care anymore. 

Par for the course. Good luck to all.


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## technobabble66 (16/11/15)

pist said:


> I have nothing to say on this issue for the sake of keeping discussion flame-free, as my views conflict with the general consensus on here, other than **** ALL RELIGION, its nothing but bullshit. Been the cause of some of the darkest shit in the history of the human race.


As an atheist, i'm right there with you on that.

However, i think i've come to the conclusion that religion is just the mechanism/means by which this evil is unleashed.

I think it's fundamentally about people trying to impose their will upon others because they think they are "right" and that somehow gives them some insane divine authority to impose their beliefs on others.
I'd advocate the eradication of all religions and the enforced teaching of science; except i'm sure that 100-500 years down the track we'd face exactly the same conflicts, just with minor differences in methodology or interpretation of results at the centre of it rather than who is the messiah or who should be the caliph.
I mean the big JC really only advocated 2 things: Love Thyself, & Love Thy Neighbour. And (us) Christians all managed to **** that right up for the last 2000 years. I suspect science won't fair much better, until the underlying issue is fully addressed.

Maybe it would help if we were at least attempting to think rationally though.

At this point i'd probably stick with: **** All _Institutionalised_ Religion. 

and: Violence begets Violence.

Hope springs eternal...


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## spog (16/11/15)

Eagleburger said:


> Been too much of this shit. Havent read a single item about it besides this thread and a few headlines. Dont even care anymore.
> 
> Par for the course. Good luck to all.


Similarly I have my work radio tuned to a music channel because I'm sick of the media trying to ram it down our throats.
" It " being any sliver of doom gloom or misery.
What has happened is horrific ,such things are common place through history so will sadly continue. Reality.

If you see something.... report it.
If you hear something...report it.
If you know something..report it.


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## MichaelM (16/11/15)

There's a school of thought that ISIL taking credit for this event among many others is a tactic to get more and more people to turn against Muslims forcing them them to be ostracised and joining their ranks creating the divided world they want.


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## Ducatiboy stu (16/11/15)

MichaelM said:


> There's a school of thought that ISIL taking credit for this event among many others is a tactic to get more and more people to turn against Muslims forcing them them to be ostracised and joining their ranks creating the divided world they want.


Then you have Russia.

They want to show how good they are, but, they also want the west to think that they are nice and fighting for them against " Islam "

If Putin pulls it off it will be a masterstroke


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## Dave70 (17/11/15)

technobabble66 said:


> As an atheist, i'm right there with you on that.
> 
> However, i think i've come to the conclusion that religion is just the mechanism/means by which this evil is unleashed.
> 
> ...


We dont need 100 - 500 years to see the results, its a social experiment being played out before our eyes. Societies that have structured themselves around theocracy are abject failures. The least religious countries universally enjoy the highest standard of living. Hard to imagine if you marooned a bunch of scientists on one island and a bunch of theocrats on another that you'd return centuries later to discover the scientists bleeding out every second female child on an alter to ensure a good harvest of yams and plentiful rain.
You'd likely find the scientists had constructed an sailing vessel and long since vanished. 
Not saying we should blindly trust in science, just that we should be skeptical of belief systems whos claims violate the laws of physics and biology. You know, stuff like parthenogenesis, flying horses and parting oceans with a wave of ones hand.

The problem with saying _**** everyone _is its an incredibly blunt tool. We're not on high alert due to Mormons pushbikers or annoying evangelicals. It took a lot of literalisim to get the ball rolling on the inquisition and stomping out heresy for example. "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live' from Exodus is pretty much as clear a mandate for biblical inspired genocide as its gets. But this was never by any stretch in cannon with Christs ideological ramblings from the mount. Assuming Christ even existed historically. Theres now way to square the circle in that regard.
Parallel this with hadith, the supposed verbatim account of the teachings, doings and sayings of Muhammad, and its islamic state by numbers. Christ was a peace nick, Muhamad was a butchering warlord. 
What we're witnessing is iron age barbarism buy a group who claim divine warrant, only with the addition of modern technology.


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## manticle (18/11/15)

Christ might have been a hippy but there's pages of scripture devoted to how much of an arsehole his dad was.


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## Coalminer (18/11/15)

technobabble66 said:


> As an atheist, i'm right there with you on that.
> 
> However, i think i've come to the conclusion that religion is just the mechanism/means by which this evil is unleashed.
> 
> ...


Love thy self - OK in private
Love thy neighbour - Can get you into piles of shit with thy wifey


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## Dave70 (18/11/15)

Oh yeah. He could be more capricious than Starlin if you caught him in a bit of a mood.
Just ask the Canaanites. 
Only you cant. Cos they all got slaughtered.


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## Dave70 (18/11/15)

Coalminer said:


> Love thy self - OK in private
> Love thy neighbour - Can get you into piles of shit with thy wifey


Particularly if your neighbor is wifey.


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## wide eyed and legless (18/11/15)

I'm still convinced its all Genghis's fault.


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## pcmfisher (18/11/15)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I'm still convinced its all Genghis's fault.


I was reading about him the other day.
He ended up wiping out 10 - 25% of the world's population. 
No one can hold a candle to that.


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## Mattress (18/11/15)

This


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## razz (18/11/15)

I love Wifey


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## Dave70 (18/11/15)

pcmfisher said:


> I was reading about him the other day.
> He ended up wiping out 10 - 25% of the world's population.
> No one can hold a candle to that.


But likely re populated that amount again via rape.


Dan Carlin has a great multi series podcast you can download and listen to if you happen to be driving to Darwin or something.
http://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-43-wrath-of-the-khans-i/


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## Ducatiboy stu (18/11/15)

Coalminer said:


> Love thy self - OK in private


No No No No No. it is a sin, says this lot

https://www.facebook.com/Christian-Mothers-Against-Masturbation-1560660604170522/


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## Benn (18/11/15)

"..ringing the devils doorbell.. " 
Whoever posted that needs to put down the keyboard, pick up a beer and go have a good Ol fashioned drunken root.


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## manticle (18/11/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> No No No No No. it is a sin, says this lot
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/Christian-Mothers-Against-Masturbation-1560660604170522/
> 
> ...


Sin cave. Fappy the dolphin

Must be a having a laugh.


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## goomboogo (18/11/15)

Angry raccoon FTW.


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## spog (18/11/15)

Dave70 said:


> Particularly if your neighbor is wifey.


Yeah ok I google wifey......holy shit !


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## Dave70 (19/11/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> No No No No No. it is a sin, says this lot
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/Christian-Mothers-Against-Masturbation-1560660604170522/
> 
> ...


It would almost be worth me trying to remember my facebook password just to post how I can fit my entire fist in my arsehole.


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## Droopy Brew (19/11/15)

Can you click your fingers too or are you to tight arsed?


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## Dave70 (19/11/15)

Droopy Brew said:


> Can you click your fingers too or are you to tight arsed?


...hang on...


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## idzy (19/11/15)

The problem with a simple solution is that it is often wrong, same as a simple answer, same as throwing the baby out with the bath water. As the saying goes, guns don't kill people, people kill people.


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## Batz (19/11/15)

Not big on religion myself but most religions do promote good rather than evil.

Not all.


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## wobbly (19/11/15)

Batz

What's the source of your attachment

Wobbly


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## Camo6 (19/11/15)

wobbly said:


> Batz
> 
> What's the source of your attachment
> 
> Wobbly


The internet. So it's true.


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## Bribie G (19/11/15)

Dave70 said:


> But likely re populated that amount again via rape.
> 
> 
> Dan Carlin has a great multi series podcast you can download and listen to if you happen to be driving to Darwin or something.
> http://www.dancarlin.com/product/hardcore-history-43-wrath-of-the-khans-i/


Indeed, the nations of Central Asia, for example Uzbekistan, are famed for the beauty of their women. It's long been suggested that even to this day this is due to the selection of the most attractive women for insemination by Ghengis' hordes, thus perpetuating some sort of beauty gene.

In most of these nations, take a snapshot of any group of ladies and they are generally very easy on the eye.


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## SBOB (19/11/15)

Batz said:


> Not big on religion myself but most religions do promote good rather than evil.
> 
> Not all.


pretty sure you could cherry pick some pretty hateful/violent passages out of any religious script if you wanted to... doesnt make them accurate to how todays 'followers/believers' interpret them (or ignore them)


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## Batz (19/11/15)

SBOB said:


> pretty sure you could cherry pick some pretty hateful/violent passages out of any religious script if you wanted to... doesnt make them accurate to how todays 'followers/believers' interpret them (or ignore them)


Pick some out then, in the mean time I hope your kids are OK over the next few years.


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## Batz (19/11/15)

Camo6 said:


> The internet. So it's true.


 Someone who has read the koran, so just guessing. Perhaps read the internet??


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## goomboogo (19/11/15)

Batz said:


> Pick some out then, in the mean time I hope your kids are OK over the next few years.


 Zephaniah 1:7:18

_Stand in silence in the presence of the Sovereign LORD, for the awesome day of the LORD's judgment has come. The LORD has prepared his people for a great slaughter and has chosen their executioners. "On that day of judgment," says the LORD, "I will punish the leaders and princes of Judah and all those following pagan customs. Yes, I will punish those who participate in pagan worship ceremonies, and those who steal and kill to fill their masters' homes with loot. "On that day," says the LORD, "a cry of alarm will come from the Fish Gate and echo throughout the newer Mishneh section of the city. And a great crashing sound will come from the surrounding hills. Wail in sorrow, all you who live in the market area, for all who buy and sell there will die. "I will search with lanterns in Jerusalem's darkest corners to find and punish those who sit contented in their sins, indifferent to the LORD, thinking he will do nothing at all to them. They are the very ones whose property will be plundered by the enemy, whose homes will be ransacked. They will never have a chance to live in the new homes they have built. They will never drink wine from the vineyards they have planted. "That terrible day of the LORD is near. Swiftly it comes a day when strong men will cry bitterly. It is a day when the LORD's anger will be poured out. It is a day of terrible distress and anguish, a day of ruin and desolation, a day of darkness and gloom, of clouds, blackness, trumpet calls, and battle cries. Down go the walled cities and strongest battlements! "Because you have sinned against the LORD, I will make you as helpless as a blind man searching for a path. Your blood will be poured out into the dust, and your bodies will lie there rotting on the ground." Your silver and gold will be of no use to you on that day of the LORD's anger. For the whole land will be devoured by the fire of his jealousy. He will make a terrifying end of all the people on earth._

Just one of the many lovely passages from the Bible. I tend to lean towards the Marquis de Sade for my fill of fictional debauchery.


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## SBOB (19/11/15)

Batz said:


> Pick some out then, in the mean time I hope your kids are OK over the next few years.


if you don't know them, then you haven't read the bible so probably shouldn't be picking apart other faiths books

Therefore I'll give you the 'easily digested' buzzfeed version 
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jessicamisener/7-shocking-bible-verses-you-probably-wont-hear-in-church#.kc9BVgKwG
http://www.buzzfeed.com/rennerlarson/quran-or-bible-most-people-cant-tell-the-differ-1haar


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## spog (19/11/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> No No No No No. it is a sin, says this lot
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/Christian-Mothers-Against-Masturbation-1560660604170522/
> 
> ...


Thank fck I'm left handed.


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## Dave70 (20/11/15)

Batz said:


> Pick some out then, in the mean time *I hope your kids are OK over the next few years*.


Me to. Certainly I hope they dont require any of the potentially near miraculous therapys that could have been realized in the field of embryonic stem sell research that lost over a decade of development due to methodist moron GWB withdrawing government funding - "My position on these issues is shaped by deeply held beliefs,” he said. “I also believe human life is a sacred gift from our creator."

Neither islam nor Judaism hold this point of view. The sacredness of the human zygote is an expressly christian concern.


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## wereprawn (20/11/15)

Who's making a contribution to our collective knowledge?Hmm....http://en.europenews.dk/Nobel-Prizes-4-Muslim-vs-129-Jewish-Contributions-to-the-World-78229.html


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## Nick the Knife (20/11/15)

It's a very complex but at the same time very simple subject area - in short, ISIL are just the latest in a very long line of organisations humans have formed to perpetrate horrendous acts upon other humans. And alas if history has shown us something about such oriented organisations religion is disproportionately represented as a core part of their 'justification'.

Such groups always preport to commit their acts based upon x, y and z basis that justifies it - and religions have always been very good for giving them a flexible/user friendly rationale that can be peverted to meet their ACTUAL justification to the maleable plebs & marginalised folks they pray upon.

The actual goal both for ISIL and all those similar groups that have come before them through the centuries is simply POWER....as everything else stems from that....wealth, control, influence, etc etc etc.

So religion in it's true sense and Islam has NOTHING to do with ISIL - they're just hijacking it as a cloak/cover/vehicle to pursue their evil (sounds dramatic but is true) agenda.

Other than the first hand victims the real tragedy of their actions (and it's definitely something as an earlier poster said - that they do DELIBERATELY) is that they end up tarring/affecting the 99.999% of muslims who feel ISIL are a lunatic fringe that has nothing to do with their religion. The knock on effect is that a lot of non-muslims look at the situation too simply and assume 'All muslims are bad' and thus end up marginalising folks which CAN drive a small % of folks into the hands of the nutbag fringe.

Their 'long game' is that they want to divide the world into a 'us or them' situation (sadly and ironically much the same as the USA tried to do with their infamous "You're either with us or against us speech by GwB).

So as a staunch Agnostic (slowly sliding to Atheist) I'd urge any readers of the thread that whilst it's great to 'not let them win' by no longer travelling etc BUT it's also and more covertly exactly what they want to try and have moderate and appalled Muslims persecuted/vilified for ISIL's crimes and thus driven into their arms.  

PS. Think about it for a second, it's the year 2015 and just like for the past couple of thousand years we're still killing, raping and doing untold horrific sadistic acts on our fellow man PURELY because these folks look, sound, eat or live differently to us. Un-pharking-believable.

PPS. Alas many Western countries foreign policy (think the colonial powers + the USA) is very often deep at the heart of many of the global conflict & disfunction issues. Thats in NO WAY a justification for them but the 'raping' of other countries (which has historically generally been white folks screwing over anyone NOT white) is a mess that shows no signs of being cleaned up.

ISIL need to be eliminated with extreme prejudice and I've zero doubt they will be much quicker than THEY'D like to think - but hopefully in doing this the powers that be won't end up perpetuating another vicious circle of hatred by not having a very targeted and appropriate response.


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## Dave70 (20/11/15)

*"So religion in it's true sense and Islam has NOTHING to do with ISIL - they're just hijacking it as a cloak/cover/vehicle to pursue their evil (sounds dramatic but is true) agenda*."

Its pointless however to deny that the scriptures of a religion have a profound influence on its adherents. The most fanatical and devout are_ always _the ones who adhere most literally to the words of their relevant texts. And the ones that promise the eternal reward, be it a harem of virgins or 'a room in my father's house' and grizzly damnation for 'transgressors' that have the most blood on their hands. Thats no coincidence. 
Even by default peaceful religions like Buddhism (though not strictly a religion) can be contorted by the influence of shintoism and its mandate of honorable sacrifice to produce the atrocities like Kamikaze pilots - the _original _suicide bombers.

No matter how elastic the interpretations of religions like Jainism or Hinduism, there is simply no way to explicate jihad, inquisition, pogroms or holy war from the pages. 

Stalinism and Nazism had nothing to do with religion either, but everything to do with men usurping the role of gods. Both had their relevant texts, martyrs and demagogues. The system works.


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## wide eyed and legless (23/11/15)

Religion itself has been used by countless fraudsters for there own ends, Jim Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart and countless other Evangelists and misbegotten religious sects in USA.
Joe Stalin's vehicle was fear, while Adolf fanned the embers of a spark deep within us all, racism, at the same time pushing the, "Master race" theme.

Back on the IS Obama has predictably spoken to his civilian and military advisers, (who according to him are the best in the world)
and has been advised not to put boots on the ground.(Phew)

Interesting now how Russia and France will move, I doubt very much whether the, "Human Shield" would work with the Russians collateral damage is part and parcel of war according to Putin.


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