# Issues with gluten free beer - Briess Sorghum Extract.



## GalBrew (23/9/13)

Hi all,
I have now made a couple of gluten free beers using the Briess White Sorghum extract. I have had haze issues with both of them. Now just to clarify this is not yeast haze or chill haze, nor does it seem to clear up over time. I have even filtered one with a 1um filter to no avail, it did absolutely nothing. The basic recipes have been to use the sorghum extract in combination with corn derived maltodextrin power for a little body and the second beer also had some rice malt syrup. Both have been fermented with Danstar yeasts: Windsor and BRY-97 (as I understand they are GF) and cold crashed extensively. My current one has been cold crashing at 1oC for a few days now and has not cleared up in the least. Has anyone used the Briess white sorghum extract and had these issues? The beer tastes pretty good for a GF extract beer, but it is very hazy which can be quite unappealing to some.

Any insights into this issue is appreciated. :beer:


----------



## spaced (23/9/13)

Hi mate,

I've been brewing with Sorghum for a few years now and I love it. 

To make clearer gluten free beers follow these steps.
- add whirlfloc tablet 15 minutes from the end of the boil
- strain your wort post chilling prior to fermentation
- crash chill post fermentation
- gelatine can also help clarifying post fermentation


----------



## Drew (14/10/13)

Any hot tips on where the best place to get things like the sorghum extract, buckwheat, candi syrup, yeast nutrient?

I've tried to put a few recipes together but found a few retails (i.e sponsors) only have one or two items, or only sell bulk sizes.

Keen to give a sorghum recipe a go for a friend.


----------



## spaced (15/10/13)

Drew said:


> Any hot tips on where the best place to get things like the sorghum extract, buckwheat, candi syrup, yeast nutrient?
> 
> I've tried to put a few recipes together but found a few retails (i.e sponsors) only have one or two items, or only sell bulk sizes.
> 
> Keen to give a sorghum recipe a go for a friend.


I've bought sorghum, candy syrup and yeast nutrient from Craft Brewer before.

And I've bought sorghum, rice malt and candy syrup from ibrew on the gold coast.

Buckwheat you can just buy off the shelf in coles.


----------



## GalBrew (15/10/13)

With my current batch I have ended up cold crashing for nearly 4 weeks at 1deg. It is much clearer than my previous batches, but still has an appreciable very fine haze to it. Might have to try some different types of finings in the future. 

I appreciate the feedback. Cheers!


----------



## spaced (15/10/13)

GalBrew said:


> With my current batch I have ended up cold crashing for nearly 4 weeks at 1deg. It is much clearer than my previous batches, but still has an appreciable very fine haze to it. Might have to try some different types of finings in the future.
> 
> I appreciate the feedback. Cheers!


No worries, did you use whirlfloc in the boil?


----------



## Drew (15/10/13)

(Cheers for the advice Spaced...I'll stop thread-jacking now!)


----------



## GalBrew (15/10/13)

spaced said:


> No worries, did you use whirlfloc in the boil?


I didn't in this batch. I always use whirlfloc in my AG beers, but didn't think to do so in this GF extract batch. I will do so next time. I will also fine in the fermenter.


----------



## spaced (15/10/13)

GalBrew said:


> I didn't in this batch. I always use whirlfloc in my AG beers, but didn't think to do so in this GF extract batch. I will do so next time. I will also fine in the fermenter.


Cool cool, be sure to update the thread with your progress.


----------



## HBHB (15/10/13)

_Definitely use the whirlfloc in all of the GF brews 15 minutes from end of boil._


----------



## mckenry (7/2/14)

Hey All,
I have just made my first GF beer from Briess white sorghum syrup. It was 3kg syrup made up to 20L with a fair whack of American hops at 60, 10 & 0 on advice from HBS. I rehydrated some US05, oxygenated and waited....

My question is, because I have never used sorghum before (or any extract for years) whats the lag time?

There doesnt sem to be any action after 24 hrs, whereas when following the same pitching method for AG I get activity after 8 hours roughly.

Anyone have any experience with sorghum extract that can give me their observations? I guess plain extract lag times will do as the write up on sorghum says it has the same sugars and amino acids as regular extract.

Cheers.
mckenry

edit - haha I just realised I made my first 'why isnt my airlock bubbling?' post - trust me, there is no action.


----------



## peas_and_corn (8/2/14)

How's it going now?


----------



## mckenry (9/2/14)

I ended up pitching another yeast. It's going very slowly at 20. Absolutely no krausen either. Second yeast was just sprinkled on unhydrated. We will see what happens.


----------



## HBHB (9/2/14)

Sorghum is also very low in the necessary nutrients needed by yeast. Suggest adding teaspoon of DAP or better still, use the Wyeast beer nutrient which is a more complete food.

Martin


----------



## AndrewQLD (9/2/14)

HBHB said:


> Sorghum is also very low in the necessary nutrients needed by yeast. Suggest adding teaspoon of DAP or better still, use the Wyeast beer nutrient which is a more complete food.
> 
> Martin


Really, that's not what the spec sheet says.


> • BriesSweet™ White Sorghum Syrup 45DE High Maltose is a concentrated wort made from 100% white sorghum
> grain
> • Produced in a state-of-the-art, five-vessel brewhouse using an all natural, enzyme-based brewing process
> • As a grain-based syrup, it provides proteins and amino acids necessary for yeast nutrition, head retention and body
> ...


View attachment Briess_PISB_BriesSweetWhiteSorghumSyrup45HM.pdf


Although I'm sure a yeast nutrient wouldn't hurt it shouldn't be required due to so called low yeast nutrients in the syrup, in the few test brews I've done using this syrup I didn't notice any real change in yeast lag times, probably 6 - 12 hours when pitching cool.


----------



## HBHB (9/2/14)

Proof is in the end result though Andrew. Have read the sheets and done them without nutrients, with DAP and with the Wyeast Nutrients. 

I'd put my money and taste buds on using a small dose of the Brew done with a touch of nutrient. FWIW. (Just my opinion and only based on about 30 -40 odd recipe development fermentations, so not based on any science)

Martin


----------



## AndrewQLD (9/2/14)

I'm not doubting that it would benefit from a yeast nutrient Martin, as would any other fermentable brew regardless of it being malt based or sorghum based, it was your comment "Sorghum is also very low in the necessary nutrients needed by yeast" that I don't agree with as per the manufacturers specs I posted.
Also the few brews I have done with the product haven't exhibited any fermentation issues over and above the norm for malt based brews.


----------



## MCHammo (9/2/14)

I recently made a GF APA for a mate - turned out surprisingly tasty with lots of late mosaic additions, masking a lot of the sorghum flavour.

I read _somewhere_ that the sorghum extract was low in minerals, etc, when compared to malt (but according to the above, this may be incorrect), so I added some nutrient, which I normally don't bother with for my AG brews. It did take a bit longer than normal to kick off, but maybe this was due to using re-hydrated US-05 instead of pitching an active starter. Certainly took a lot longer to ferment than a similar APA I did a few weeks prior (3-4 weeks instead of about 2).


----------



## DoctorBob (9/2/14)

My only experience of sorghum extarct was a Nelson Pale Ale, I made made for the wife.

2.8kg extract
25L water,
heat to boil, reduce to 20L
add 7g nelson sauvin hops at 60 mins (12.7IBU)
1 x whirlfloc at 15 mins
1 tsp yeast nutrient at 15 mins
10 g Nelson at flame out, cube and chuck in the pool.
US05 yeast at 18C
5day ferment . then usual chill for 2 days to zero ish....then keg and gas up...
gotta say i was suprised, dropped brilliant clear in a couple of days, and was a loverly drop.

Only downside was it didn't hold a head


----------



## MCHammo (9/2/14)

You got away with 17g hops in that?? How was the taste? (Did the nelson flavour come through much? did it go well with the sorghum?)

Mine was (20L batch, NC):
3.00kg sorghum
0.35kg maltodextrine (head retention and body)
0.10kg dark candi sugar (mainly for colour)

20g cascade (30 mins)
25g mosaic (5 mins)
25g mosaic (whirlpool)
20g mosaic (dry, 1-2 days before CC)
10g mosaic (5 min steep/press - added during CC)

The few people who have tried it reckon it's a winner. Will try playing around with different hops next time, rather than almost-all mosaic. I reckon a touch of something noble like Saaz or Hallertau might even go quite well in this.


----------



## mckenry (11/2/14)

mckenry said:


> I ended up pitching another yeast. It's going very slowly at 20. Absolutely no krausen either. Second yeast was just sprinkled on unhydrated. We will see what happens.


This is going terribly. Still at 1.030 - OG 1.039. WTF?


----------



## angus_grant (11/2/14)

Yep, the gluten free beer I did for my sister took about 3&1/2 weeks to ferment out and it was 6 or 7 points off estimated final gravity. Was a real pain in the arse. 

If I was going to use the sorghum extract I would add yeast nutrient. 

But my sister is only gluten intolerant so I am interested in using the white labs clarity ferm which all apparently drops a lot of the gluten particles out of normal beer. I'll make a batch with that and see if it agrees with her.


----------



## MCHammo (11/2/14)

How long has it been? 4-5 days?

Mine took 3 weeks to go from OG 1.050 to FG 1.012 with US-05 at 18°C. Maybe wait a few more days to see if the SG drops a bit more? Finished about 3 points above est FG, so wasn't too bad.


----------



## mckenry (12/2/14)

Cheers boys. Never read any lit saying it would take so long. So it's been 5 days. I assumed it would be like a normal extract seeing as the blurb bangs in about being equal to malt extract etc. It bubbled quite well after a longer than expected lag, but stopped quite suddenly after that. I'll let my hydro do the talking. Check again on Saturday and see where we r at. What a PITA.


----------



## mckenry (19/2/14)

mckenry said:


> Cheers boys. Never read any lit saying it would take so long. So it's been 5 days. I assumed it would be like a normal extract seeing as the blurb bangs in about being equal to malt extract etc. It bubbled quite well after a longer than expected lag, but stopped quite suddenly after that. I'll let my hydro do the talking. Check again on Saturday and see where we r at. What a PITA.


SG made it to 1.009 - So, it'll get there, just slowly. Hydrometer sample tastes OK. Thinking it might benefit from a bit of dry though.


----------

