# Jao The Ultimate Beginners Mead Recipe



## pdilley

JAO Twins, 1 Clove and 2 Clove, a few days after pitching yeast.



This recipe is designed for beginners. Everyone else with an opinion can just buggar off!

For a 5 litre demijohn
-------------------------------

1.6kg honey (never boiled or lose the taste and aromas) (if I meant 1.5kg I would have written it)
1 large orange (at most cut into eight pieces -- rind and all)
1 small handful of raisins (25 if you can count)
1 stick of cinnamon (its brown, its wood, its good)
1 whole clove (or 2 if you like high potency)
optional (a pinch of nutmeg and allspice )( very small mind you ) 
1 tsp of bread yeast (now don't get holy on me about bread yeast -- after all this recipe is DESIGNED for it)
Balance water to bring batch out to 3.8 litres (did you know, there are 3.785411 litres per US gallon)


Process:

Use a clean 5 litre demijohn.

Dissolve honey in some warm water and put in demijohn

Wash orange well to remove any pesticides and slice into eights (may wish to zest slightly, just shove em through the demijohn's hole)

Put in raisins, clove, cinnamon stick, any optional ingredients and fill demijohn with water to about 3.8 litres with cold water (need some room for some foam -- you can top off with more water after the first few days foaming frenzy). (You did remember to pour in a measured 3.8 litres and mark off the level on the outside of the glass demijohn before hand right?)

Shake the hell out of the demijohn with the top on or bung in (of course). This is your sophisticated oxygenation process.

When liquid is at room temperature, put in 1 tsp of bread yeast (no you don't have to rehydrate it first -- the ancients did not even have that word in their vocabulary -- just put it in and give it a gentle swirl or not)(The yeast can fight for their own territory)

Install water airlock. Put in dark place. It will start working immediately or in an hour. (Don't use grandma's bread yeast she bought years before she passed away in the 90's -- use the fresh stuff) (Wait 3 hours before you panic or call me) After major foaming stops in a few days add some water and then keep your hands off of it. (Don't shake it! Don't mess with them yeastees! Leave them alone except its okay to open your cabinet to inhale deeply the smell every once in a while.)


Racking -- *Don't you dare!*
Additional feeding -- *No! NO!*
More stirring or shaking -- *You are not listening, do not touch!*


After 2 months and maybe a few days it will slow down to a stop and clear all by itself. (How about that) (You are not so important after all) Then you can put a hose in with a small cloth filter on the end into the clear part and siphon off the golden nectar. If you wait long enough even the oranges will sink to the bottom but I never waited that long. If it is clear it is ready. You don't need a cold basement. It does better in a kitchen in the dark. (Like in a cabinet) likes a little heat (20C-25C). If it didn't work out... you screwed up and didn't read my instructions (or used grandma's bread yeast she bought years before she passed away) . If it didn't work out then take up another hobby. Mead is not for you. It is too complicated.

If you were successful, which I am 99% certain you will be, then enjoy your mead. When you get ready to make different types of mead you will probably have to unlearn some of these practices I have taught you, but hey -- This recipe and procedure works with these ingredients so don't knock it. It was your first mead. It was my tenth. Sometimes, even the experts can forget all they know and make good ancient mead. 

This mead should finish quite sweet, if it finished dry, most likely your bread yeast has higher alcohol tolerance than Fleishmann's Bread Yeast (original recipe USA brand of dry yeast -- 12% alc tol. and high flocculation). In Australia for the past few years all the dry yeast sold is imported from China. So add more honey in the next batch and so on until it finishes sweet instead of dry or switch brands (but then again all the Australian brands today are probably from the same barrel of imported China dry yeast). Don't like it sweet? Add less honey next time.

Keep in mind, that will completely void the "warranty" of Ancient Orange recipe if you randomly use a different yeast. Different yeasts have different alcohol tolerance, and it just so happens that the Fleishman's active dry bread yeast is perfect for this recipe in regards to alcohol tolerance. Using another yeast would probably give better results *IF* the honey was re-balanced to suit the yeast. Again, this recipe is all about *BALANCE*. The bitterness from the orange and the sweetness of the honey balance perfectly with the alcohol level. I don't know if I just don't have a well enough educated palate or what, but I can't discern any yeast flavour in my Ancient Orange. It is young even by this recipe's standard; the batch cleared at about 4 weeks and is currently in bottles. Even at such an extremely young age, it turned out incredibly smooth with a wonderful flavour of the varietal honey that I used. The spices are "just right" and everything comes together perfectly. If it is not clear, just wait longer as one day it will magically turn from cloudy to clear and the fruit will drop meaning its time to bottle. Like any mead if you leave this one to age (although only need 6 months) then it just keeps tasting better. Foaming and clearing times are dependent upon yeast and temperature conditions.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete



JAO Twins today, note the honey is much lighter in colour now.


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## Sammus

this is something I'll be trying for sure. Cheers for posting!


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## Verbyla

Thanks for that!

Definitely one i'll try in the future. 

You should add it to the recipeDB, even if its a short recipe that has the link to here

Not trying to kiss arse or anything but i always love reading what you've got to say!


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## pdilley

No worries, enjoy.

Without taking a Refractometer reading my calculations bring the Starting Brix to exactly 29 Degrees Brix.

That would be a Starting Gravity of 1.125, a lot of pressure and sugars for the yeast to punch through.

Once you get comfortable with the math you can check your attenuation of your yeast and on your next brew adjust the Starting Gravity / Starting Brix figure to make your targeted finish gravity... Lower if you find it too sweet for your liking... but of course by the time you're running calculations like this you can call yourself quite a bit more than a beginner.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

EDIT: Iron Bark honey is next up on my next batch of JAOs


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## jayse

Wicked, I'am gunna do it, cheers.


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## pdilley

Always good to have people on board. Good excuse to start adding 5 litre demijohns to the collection to get into small batch brewing, testing out fruit wines, meads, high malt bill beers, things that would cost a lot to do a full size batch when you only want to try it and see if you like it before going the full batch size or upscaling to double or triple batches.


For flattop, if he takes his 3kg of Orange Blossom honey and does two JAOs, I estimate his Starting Gravity to be 1.117 or .008 gravity points lower. This will push the finish closer towards semi-sweet.

My US-05 yeast in my Stringy Bark in the 60 litre fermenter started at 1.100 and I'm aiming for that to finish out completely dry. I have 12 brand new 5 litre fermenters waiting for the finished mead so I can rack into them for bulk aging and then use some for soaking vanilla beans, others with other spices, and some with high quality (usually expensive) fruits. Thats why I'm keeping the batch size 5 litres on those. Costs down, lots of variety up.

That still leaves 2 more new 5 litre demijohns to do some other things... fruit wines perhaps?

Small Batch, its a whole new angle


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## Pumpy

I think we should appoint Brewer Pete the AHB site mead expert .

I suppose with mead such a strong drink you can split it up and add all sorts of adjuncts to mini batches .

maybe cranberries , sour cherries 

Pumpy


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## pdilley

Sour Cherries will go good. Cranberries, I am not sure if you can get them fresh over here. Not sure if dried cranberries will impart a lot of flavour. Kind of like making wine with raisins 

I have three cherries in the back yard but the bloody birds ate them all except one this last season. I was more upset to find everything that used to be legal is now illegal to get, oh like pellet rifles  And even though the birds are a pest they are protected by local laws.

I have quite a few fruit trees in the back yard, nothing to the number Ken Schramm has, but I'm working on it.


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## pdilley

One word of warning, store bought fruit from the supermarket is utter crap for use in brewing. Most likely for your health as well.

You need the fruit of yesteryear, bred over the centuries for juicy ripeness and full of flavour, not this new generation of supermarket fruit thats been injected with fly eyeball DNA. A fruit whose entire genetic modification by modern science is to #1 Look Good even if it is not, #2 Last a hell of a long time on the shelf without rotting. #3 is forgotten about, taste like the actual fruit it tries to resemble in appearance.

You have to find all those abandoned fruit trees of the older breeds in the countryside as the supermarkets took over the country and crap became the new standard. You'll have to go out of your way to get good fruit, and you'll have to pay for it too. Its the same story, you can not make better quality finished product than your honey, same with the fruit you use.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## Bizier

You should write a book Pete, half rant and philosohpy, the other half recipe. "The Zen of Mead Maintenance" ?
Great posts.

OT: have you brewed with Banksia honey? It has a distinct and interesting smell and taste, dry, earthy and woody. I imagine this fermenting well.


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## Sammus

Sorry if it's obvious... but what's JAO?


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## pdilley

JAO is Joes Ancient Orange, JAOM would add Mead on the end.

Banksia sounds interesting, I have not had that varietal yet nor letherwood. Your best bet is to dilute down your candidate honey or group of honeys about one part to 3 parts water or more to get an idea what they are like around recipe dilution. Then you will get to know first hand what you have to work with. It will be sweet but focus on the taste and aroma at that level and see if it does anything for you.

Leatherwood sounds like I might find in a store in smal amounts than at the local farm as it ls description says that it is made in Tasmania.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## flattop

This was my original choice for a recipe, i think i will go with that since i have a limited quantity of honey... i can feel another bulk buy coming on....

Perhaps i will do a split batch, one with bread yeast and another with US-05 that i think you BP said was a great yeast for Mead...

Anyhow i need to get some good non supermarket oranges from the orchard down the road first...


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## pdilley

With JAO there is no need to stress the oranges as they dont come through for flavour. Instead its the pith providing tannin like bittering to balance the sweet finish which is why you are told to add eighths so you have enough exposed surface area. If you make lots of thin slices you will over bitter. If you optionally zest do very little as the aroma addition you get might not survive through fermentation and you will increase your bittering depending on how deeply you cut into the skin. Make at least one according to recipe to base your changed upon and for use as a comparison baseline.

Most people will make JAO true to recipe as if you fermented out dry you could find the balance doesnt work anymore for your own palette. I have not used US-05 in a JAO but dont see a whole lot wrong with it compared to English, Irish, Scottish Ale yeasts which leave rubber bands twang that will require aging to mellow out of the finished Mead. Wine yeasts will most like take JAO straight to dry finish.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## Airgead

Oh man.. Call me a coward if you will but I still worry about the whole bread yeast thing. 

I know its all still S.Cerrivicie but there's not guarantee as to the strain. One manufacturer may have a completely different one to another manufacturer and everything I have ever tasted brewed with bread yeast was ordinary (at best).

I still say you are better off forking out the $5 for a packet of dry brewing yeast. At least that way you have some control over the attenuation and flavour profile. Honey (good honey anyway) isn't cheap so I would be loath to risk it on bread yeast.

Cheers
Dave


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## pdilley

Airgead said:


> Oh man.. Call me a coward if you will but I still worry about the whole bread yeast thing.
> 
> Cheers
> Dave




I won't call you a coward, but I will call you a non-beginner hence this recipe is not for you, and will call you on your alternative recommendation.

With the rare exception, most Ale brewing yeasts will put off flavour twangs into Meads that need to be aged out. Honey Must is not Barley Water, Mead is not Beer, the rules of beer yeasts on Mead does not apply. To recommend a beginner go out on his first try and not use a yeast the recipe was designed for is setting them up to potentially encounter off flavours and put them off making mead entirely and as such is a disservice to that beginner.

Maybe you need to brew this particular recipe out with bread yeast then come back and comment. Have some faith, I'll hold your hand and cheer you all the way 


More importantly i'm a bit worried about your Braggot  so lets talk about that one on the other post.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## flattop

I have no problem with using bread yeast, but i saw other mead recipes with US-05 as the yeast of choice... Wine yeast with a dry finish is not for me, the missus won't drink it so i'm looking for a sweet finish...
Anyhow i am starting to think about buying a demijohn instead of a large fermenter, obviously your orange slices fit back out of the neck of the bottle after the mead is finished....


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## pdilley

US-05 is one of those rare ale yeasts that wont twang a mead but will add a touch of clove and bannana to the finish. It also is great for fake lagers as its clean profile comes out at the low end of its temperature range.

I love the little glass demi's, they are $15 ea. so cost wise they can not beat a large glass demijohn, but they make up for it in being more handy, easy to lift, easy to clean, easy to oxygenate. Bungs are less, S airlocks are the same price, if you go for a rubber solid bung seal its not much but if you get the grolsch style tops
they are around $4 ea.

Upside down with bottle brush up and down will clear out the dregs.

Big fermenters still have their place. If you really get stuck into Meads you'll bulk primary ferment in large fermentation vessels then rack to the smaller vessels to age and flavour individually. You will stabilise, clear and slowly adopt a more wine like brewing style. And you will even ferment to dry and backsweeten to an exact degree that matches the flavours from the quality of the ingredient combined with the flavours each different yeast imparts.

For now you'll just keep it simple, go easy on yourself and have fun and enjoy making your first Mead(s).


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## Chad

I haven't got time to read the entire thread just yet, but I had done this recipe nearly two years ago and it is one of the best meads I have made yet. And yes, I did use bread yeast.


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## flattop

Thanks BP, i think i will splash out and get the glass mini as it will be easier to store for 2-3 months and it doesn't tie up my fermenter, if i brewed enough mead i can justify the outlay on hardware.. guess i could use it for mini beer brews as well...


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## Pumpy

I wish I knew what mead tasted like .

Is it a Saxon thing 

did the Vikings bring it to Britain 

Pumpy


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## pdilley

Jeg tror vikingene drakk de mjd og brakte den til England.

Franksmennene likte druer bedre.

Har har! Slaps you heartily on the back and welcomes you into the Mead Hall.


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## lokgnar

k i have a 25 ltr fermantar or something for beer i dont drink beer and i found out that they have discountcountiued sorry for spelling the mead line from stores can i make mead from this fermenta?


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## Trent

Not sure where you are located, or the mead line that you are talking about, but yes, you can certainly use a 25L fermenter to make mead in. You may want to make the recipe suit 23L or so (multiply everything by 6) if you have such a big fermenter though, and it will give you time to drink all the mead while the next one is fermenting.
All the best
Trent


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## lokgnar

thanks trent im in a small town of aratula were about 1/2 hour from ipswich were i buy my mead and is one of those thristy camel or something and lady behind the counter told me there not doin it anymore could be just be in ipswich im not sure. and mead im chaseing is the maxwell brand. but i have always wonted to make my own and they just gave me a reson to try, 
thanks again
Shawn



Trent said:


> Not sure where you are located, or the mead line that you are talking about, but yes, you can certainly use a 25L fermenter to make mead in. You may want to make the recipe suit 23L or so (multiply everything by 6) if you have such a big fermenter though, and it will give you time to drink all the mead while the next one is fermenting.
> All the best
> Trent


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## Ivan Other One

This looks like a recipe to try.

Being a K&K beer brewer whom has never tried this style of brewing I just have one question about storage of the finall product.

After fermentation is complete, is the mead then transfered to another bottle/s or is it ok left as is in the Demi?

YEAH,,,,, I know,,,, bloody amatures...

Cheers Ivan


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## Tyred

Not left in the demijohn once fermentation is complete. You can rack to another demijohn or bottle it.

Most of the time you should be able to bottle it as it is meant to drop clear soon after fermentation completes.


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## pdilley

Not with JAO, the style is to not rack to secondary, but leave in the primary until clear. You'll have to read the first post again for the instructions about that.

With all other Mead recipes I will rack to secondary glass fermenter for some aging or blending with spices and/or fruits.

Winter time brewing will push your fermentation and clearing times out for JAO so take that into account.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

EDIT: I started JAO in the middle of March so that puts it about 2 1/2 months and the cold weather has slowed it down. I contrast I put down the 43 litres of Mead using US05 and SNA method on the 9th/10th of May and its already done even though it faced colder temperatures. Thats the difference between the current and the new methods of making Mead.

Now if you are not a beginner and want to hit it with sparkaloid / bentonite for very clear Mead


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## lokgnar

so can u drink it straight from demijohn after its cleaned up?


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## pdilley

lokgnar said:


> so can u drink it straight from demijohn after its cleaned up?



The finger hold sure gives that idea on the glass fermenter but you simply siphon straight to bottles. This is where the spring loaded bottle filler on the end of the siphon comes in real handy. There are videos on you tube others have made of the bottling process with JAOs. I can see about finding one if you need.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## lokgnar

no that should be fine thankyou for your info


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## upsidefront

Made my first one today........ can't wait to try it!!! :icon_drool2: 
One question if I may: what is the expected acl content? ( Didn't get an OG to work it out myself)


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## pdilley

Congratulations on putting the first one down. Cold weather will slow down a JAO fermentation so keep that in mind, as long as you can keep it going and not get stuck you'll be fine. JAO is designed to ferment around 20C average and a top of 25C for decent enough results.

My Mead brewing program I'm still programming reports this to be OG 1.125, you will hit around 12% or higher ABV depending on when your yeast decides to give up the ghost and flocculates out so don't drink it all in one swig 

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


EDIT: Hands you a towel for the drool


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## notung

I made up a 3.8L batch of JAO on the weekend and have just popped it in the cupboard out in the shed. I think given the pretty chilly temps we've been having here, I may chuck it onto a heater pad. I hope I have not killed this mead. Is it pretty robust Pete?


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## pdilley

notung said:


> I made up a 3.8L batch of JAO on the weekend and have just popped it in the cupboard out in the shed. I think given the pretty chilly temps we've been having here, I may chuck it onto a heater pad. I hope I have not killed this mead. Is it pretty robust Pete?



They are as robust as a high gravity ale as far as brewing temperatures go. You want to keep them in Ale temperature range and not keep them riding right on the bottom end of the temperature range until they've chewed up some of those fermentable sugars so they are not under such high pressures from all that gravity.

If JAOs were using SNA then you could push them right to the bottom edge and even under the low end of the Ale temps into hybrid Lagers-cum-Ale-yeast temperatures but they are for beginners and follow time old brewing techniques and thereby have no FAN or nutrient additions to help the yeast have an optimum healthy fermentation environment so you are best keeping within the recipes' listed temperature parameters.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## notung

I have popped it onto a heater mat now, minus the fridgemate controller. I figure that should be about right... I am looking forward to this in a few months time. If I continue along the path brewing mead, I am really going to need some cellar space somewhere! Thanks for the help Pete.


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## pdilley

notung said:


> I have popped it onto a heater mat now, minus the fridgemate controller. I figure that should be about right... I am looking forward to this in a few months time. If I continue along the path brewing mead, I am really going to need some cellar space somewhere! Thanks for the help Pete.




Most definitely, but one worthy of the effort and time organising a decent stockpile of aging Meads!

I fermented the bulk of mine during ambient temperatures and it just dropped now sitting at cold temperatures averaging 10C or less during the nightly cool-down in the house during the cold turn in Canberra.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete 

Photo attached below of JAO during the fruit dropping stage.


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## Yuma

Can compressed yeast be substituted for the dried yeast?


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## pdilley

Yuma said:


> Can compressed yeast be substituted for the dried yeast?



You'll be fine. Fresh yeast is highly perishable and only has a shelf life measured in weeks, 4 to 6. So depending on the date of the yeast when you bought it you may have to make your JAOM sooner rather than later. Dry yeast has a tremendously greater shelf life. Most "sell by" dates on fresh yeast *is* the "expiration date".

Just take note of your yeast and where you got it from for replication in future if you prefer the way it comes out in the end.

The basic substitution of fresh yeast to dry yeast is almost 3 grams fresh for every gram dried.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## jarrad

Rad. I put one of these on the other day, it's in there next to my canned fruit salad wine. Bubbling away nicely and the smell is pretty good


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## pdilley

Wait until it really gets going  

Full and heady aromas that include hints of vanilla mmmmm  


Now the sad thing is all those lovely aromas we smell from gorgeous recipes like JAO is aromas and flavours leaving the fermented liquid and entering the air. So sad thing is its stripping some of them away, this is why we don't boil our honey to start with, its bad enough losing it to the fermentation process without amplifying the loss by tossing in boiling as well.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## watchUburn

Hi Pete,
I've got a JOAM that's been fermenting for 6 weeks now. Mine kinda looks like it has similar clarity to the pic you posted with the fruit dropping, but mine's still floating. I've read that when you can read a newspaper through the bottle that it's clear enough to bottle, but the original post seems to suggest that the mead will be ready before the fruit drops.

I really want to try this mead, but at the same time I don't want to be premature....


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## pdilley

Its all dependent on the temperature you are fermenting a JAO at to the time invovled. The batch in photos is at ambient so it got decent fermentation temperature but shortly after Canberra cold hit and its been clearing and aging below rcommended temperatures so it will extend the time significantly. That said patience is good up to fruit dropping stage, it will happen just about the time you think it will not. After drop if you really want to sample it right away you could hit it with a clearing agent. I am letting mine go as I am wanting to baseline my honey with the yeast in a benchmark. As I try new honey varietals I slowly build a list of data of good combinations for Australia.
Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## watchUburn

Very excited here. The fruit has dropped !!! Well, mostly anyway. I think there's an obstinate raisin still hanging in there...
It's still fairly cloudy though, so I might wait a week or two more. Maybe if it still hasn't cleared I'll try a clearing agent.


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## pdilley

Mate! I'm coming over! Looks like you are almost ready 

Congratulations!


Don't mind the rude raisin or two. As the CO2 is released from the yeast cake at the bottom the bubbles can catch on the fruit so you will have the odd dancing raisin or two that go up and float then sink, then go up and float, then sink 

What kind of honey did you source in Darwin? And don't forget to brew some more so you can see first hand what flavours each varietal adds to your JAOs until you find the one your taste buds just like the best of them all - whether it be the cleanest fermenting honey or one that throws an added flavour you just like stick with your preference. Then with your best tasting honey get that 23-25 Litre batch going and invite us all over 

While JAOMs drink early and are desired for that factor alone, they don't age as well in the bottle past the 2-3 year mark you'll start to decline. But if you treat this as your "session" Mead (long stretch I know) then when you get hooked and put down other Meads you can drink this in-between waiting the year or two for the others to come into the prime in the bottle.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## watchUburn

Well the weather in Darwin is quite nice (at the moment), so you'd probably enjoy the trip 
I must confess that I used honey from the supermarket :unsure: , but as this is my first attempt I just wanted to see how it worked out...
I found a local honey when I was at the local corner shop, so my next mead will probably come from there. I have no idea what the bees have collected to make the honey... probably tropical fruit like mangos I guess.

I've also found myself a freezer that I'll be picking up later today. Once I've sourced a fridgemate I'll have a proper controlled enviornment to brew the next batch  I think this one endured some rather hot days...

Hopefully it turns out nice, but if not, maybe the next one will!


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## pdilley

Well not to worry, but thats why you beat everyone to the finish gate. If it was too high and you get fusels then you'll just have to age it longer before drinking. So I guess you end up at the same place in the end as the rest of us 

Temperature control is the best thing you can add to your collection of brewing gear. It will serve you well across every type of fermentation you can think of from beers, meads, wines, sakes, yeasts, moulds, mushrooms, you name it you can grow it -- well that last two also require humidity control but thats as easy from a container of water to an actual humidity generating device. Moulds will be your Sake rice and cheeses, and Mushrooms are just a step up from cheeses grown on jars of grain. So you can see you opened a very large door onto possibilities with that one device.

Supermarket honey will work, but its actually the most expensive to buy and you can almost guarantee pastuerisation and blending of honeys. But still, for a first JAO its all alright to use if it gets you started on your path to brewing Meads.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

P.S. I'd recommend looking at Ross's TempMate at CraftBrewer link on the suppliers up top. It will cover heating and cooling, although I'm sure you got the first covered in Darwin


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## Fermented

Sorry for a potentially daft question, but is storing it in the cupboard an anti-skunking and basic temperature stabilisation thing?

Would it be OK to maybe just put it in a big cardboard box on a shelf?

Only reason I ask I that I'm slightly out of storage space.  

Cheers - Fermented.


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## pdilley

Fermented said:


> Sorry for a potentially daft question, but is storing it in the cupboard an anti-skunking and basic temperature stabilisation thing?
> 
> Would it be OK to maybe just put it in a big cardboard box on a shelf?
> 
> Only reason I ask I that I'm slightly out of storage space.
> 
> Cheers - Fermented.



Its only to get it out of sight and as expected in a temperature stabilised environment.

Box on the shelf should be fine, theres plenty of time to put down a few more JAOs in a cupboard .

I ran out of room in my cupboard, so I moved mine to the other room by the Hop plants in the corner section out of the light. :icon_cheers: 

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## watchUburn

Out of sight is good. I find myself opening the lid to have a peek every now and again. I know nothing will have changed (in the 1-2 hours that have passed) but I'm really impatient


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## pdilley

watchUburn said:


> Out of sight is good. I find myself opening the lid to have a peek every now and again. I know nothing will have changed (in the 1-2 hours that have passed) but I'm really impatient



Let me know when you start dreaming about your Meads! Then you know you are hooked, well and truly!

I've not put down all the Eucalyptus varietals to profile them properly yet. So is it 6 to 8 weeks or 6 to 8 months for them to clear during bulk aging  time will tell!


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## bakkerman

Brewer Pete,

I have a question regarding bottling the mead. Do you add fresh yeast and a bit of sugar to carbonate and scavenge the remaining oxygen in the bottle?

Or do you just bottle in wine bottles with an additive like sulphite to prevent oxidization?

Beers!


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## pdilley

bakkerman said:


> Brewer Pete,
> 
> I have a question regarding bottling the mead. Do you add fresh yeast and a bit of sugar to carbonate and scavenge the remaining oxygen in the bottle?
> 
> Or do you just bottle in wine bottles with an additive like sulphite to prevent oxidization?
> 
> Beers!




JAO ferments with residual sweetness left over by design. That rules out carbonation with the existing yeast. JAO is bottled like a still wine. Most people won't sulphate a JAO as its not designed to age gracefully and again is designed to be drunk young so even good for Dave's wife. Most people just bottle and cork/cap as is. If worried, keep the bottles under refrigeration. Using a champers yeast you could carn in the bottle but you ruin the balance of residual sweetness as the yeast will chomp through not only the added sugar but all the residual and ferment it dry.

Usually if a JAO comes out right you have a lot of problems keepin them around long enough to get any decent aging done. Upsizing to batch sizes of 23 litres or more doesn't seem to help keeping it around to age either for some funny reason 

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## 3GumsBrewing

Got my first JAO down on the weekend, easy as! 
Thanks for whacking this recipe up. 

One question just how vigorous is the fermenting supposed to be. Maybe I am too impatient, how does one wait 3 months!


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## watchUburn

I added 2mL of isinglass finings to my JAO mead on Saturday, but it still hasn't had an effect. Do you think I should add more?


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## pdilley

That will teach me to post near midnight. If you want to assist in clearing you don't have to crash chill to greatly lower temperatures. 5 to 6 C is all you need to lower it by to start the effect chilling has on clarifying a fermented Mead. If you are in Darwin or your temperatures are normally above 26C then you might want to instead increase the chilling temperature up to 10-12C colder than ambient temperatures to get the same effect.

Given time Mead will clear on its own. However sometimes we are impatient  The JAO is perfectly fine to sample as it is. If the suspended particles are yeast then as we know from beer brewing experience you can get a slight change in taste from yeast than in a perfectly cleared Mead. Some people like the taste as it is, so its an individual thing.

If you boil your fruits and you get a cloudy finished product you would have had pectin haze. We can tick that off. Put your pectic enzyme away.

If you used grains and tubers in making your Mead then you could have starch haze. We can tick that off. Put your iodine away as we don't need a few drops to see if it reacts with starch turning it indigo blue.

If you did a malo-lactic fermentation and got the haze then it would be bacteria induced haze. We can tick that off. Put your campden tablets away.


So what is in your finished Mead determines what fining agent you use to try and knock it out of suspension faster than time honoured waiting. What you have suspended as particles in the Mead possess either a positive (+) or a negative (-) electrical charge. The idea is to chose a fining with the opposite electrical charge so that they bond together and hopefully are bulky enough to drop out of suspension.

Positive (+) charged particles are usually Proteins and Metals
Finings to use are negatively (-) charged finings such as tannin, bentonite, Kieselsol (liquid silicon dioxide), and even yeast itself. If using tannin, its more of a "next time around" affair where you add it to the Must before you ferment it either directly or a teabag or two and if your second JAO ferments perfectly clear then you know its Proteins in solution. Bentonite is my favourite of the lot but you add it as needed depending on the haze as too much and you get an earthy flavour which is natural since bentonite is a fine clay material.

Negatively (-) charged particles include your yeast, your tannins, your bacteria, phenolics and anthocyanins (swallow what your chewing on before saying that one aloud!).
Finings to use that are positively (+) charged include your Isinglass, gelatin, Sparkalloid (I like this), egg albumin (egg white), casein and chitin and sometimes crushed baked egg shells.

Try chilling the Mead down before adding a fining (2 to 3 weeks in the fridge should improve it). Its not easy with a beginning recipe like JAO to expect everyone to have pH meters or paper strips in their testing gear yet but when you get there, understand that higher pH lessens the effectiveness of especially the organic finings. Isinglass is sturgeon bladder so you could have been stymied by pH in solution.

The organic fining agents work in some but not all cases. I think this is why the clays like Bentonite and Sparkolloid (polysaccharides in a diatomaceous earth carrier) are becoming popular with some brewers.


All said and told you can over fine and add flavours to your Mead so its a fine balance point between how much cosmetic clarity you want versus how much added flavourings from fining agents you want to accept.

As a beginner you should not stress it as much and lean more towards accepting and enjoying what you have. Come competition time, bring out your big guns!


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## watchUburn

Thanks for that Pete. As ever a clear explanation.
This is the first time I've tried a clearing agent so i didn't know all of that. I tried chilling the mead at 4C for 2 weeks but it didn't have a noticeable effect.
I would leave it to clear naturally but I'm worried that if I leave it too long the bitterness of the orange rind will get a bit overwhelming... And I'm impatient to try my first mead 

I think I might just try bottling it and leaving it for a few more weeks to age in the bottle.


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## pdilley

watchUburn said:


> I think I might just try bottling it and leaving it for a few more weeks to age in the bottle.



Be sure you get brewers prerogative in a small sample for the brewer as you are bottling. This will let you know how it tastes and if you like it as it is going into the bottle then you know what to do 

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## watchUburn

Bottled and sampled the JAO today.
It's really bad. The bitterness from the orange peel is overwhelming. You can really feel the alcomohol hit you, but the flavour is not very enjoyable.
Hopefully after a month or two aging, and some sweetening it might be drinkable


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## pdilley

I'm sorry to hear that. I looks like you have been hit by two brewing problems on your first try of the recipe.

Over bitter and what sounds like high fusels.


I have decanted some of "JAO 1 Clove" into a glass as this is my first brew using a metric conversion instead of imperial and JAO 1 Clove is definitely not bitter, a but strong sweet orange mead liquor with a balanced spice background as I remember JAO, very addictive! 3 or 4 sips and its just starting to hit me so when you get your first perfect JAO don't drink it quickly in one go!

I gave the glass to the wife while I get a chance to type this. Its not clear but its ready to consume. No high fusel alcohols no out of balance characters. With my cloves from the local Indian grocery shop their potency level shows 1 clove is enough.

So don't lose hope whatever you do! It is simply just a bum first try and get another one going but with a closer eye on controlled temperature during fermentation. I'll talk about how you can look at this batch below but be sure to put another batch on the go because once you hit a properly fermented JAO you will know it is all worth it.


If you have your brewing notes written down then post them and we can go through them:

1) We have to look at the oranges you used. Do you remember the variety of oranges you used. Was it a lot of pith and skin versus fruit in it? Do you remember the size of the oranges, and the number of slices of oranges you used. For example, thick skinned oranges like Naval oranges is not a good match for JAOs and over bitters them.

Bitterness will not age out with time. You have to balance the bitterness with sweetness. You have the idea already and I would recommend to use honey to back sweeten your JAO.

2) High alcohol/fusel alcohol "Hot" flavours are a sign of fermentation to fast at too high a temperature.

You've simply got a fast fermentation so your temperatures are higher than optimum for the yeast to produce a clean ferment. This will age out with time, give your first batch of JAO 6 months to age out the fusels. It also sounds like at the higher temperatures your yeast just chewed through everything it could in its over active state. The temperature range I went through helped the yeast stay in check and leaving it to chill in the cooling Canberra winter onset made the yeasts life more difficult which is what was needed to keep the fermentation without fusels and leaving enough residual sweetness to balance. I only have a clearing problem with JAO 1 Clove and JAO 2 CLove to deal with now.

If you look below I started JAO 1 Clove on a day with highs of 23 degrees, then it remained in the low 20's as fermentation took off. Then winter rapidly started taking hold and I was down to 18's and 16's in no time at all. Then extended periods with ambient temperatures around 14 then winter really hit and it got bloody cold 

Also post what yeast you used. I have used the Defiance Quality Foods Instant Dry Yeast (12 sachets per box, 96g, 8g per sachet) that I picked up in Melbourne before I moved to Canberra. Best by Oct 2008  on the box so I'm at the end of the batch date now but it has produced lovely results with the JAOs I have put down with it.

I could only find Tandaco yeast locally which I don't remember seeing in Melbourne in the stores. I bought some but never used them for JAO yet although I got feedback it made a nice JAO as well.


We'll get you making perfect JAO in no time!

I am going to post my JAO 1 Clove brewing day notes for you so you can print them out and study them.

JAO 1 clove
Monday, 9 March 2009 

Objective
Determine the quality of a Stringy Bark Honey with a Bread Yeast true to JAO recipe.
1. Test out the brew process with Defiance Bread Yeast.
2. Test out the brew process with Canberra Stringy Bark Honey.
3. Test out the difference using 1 clove instead of 2 cloves at this quantity of must.
4. Test out slightly less Honey, aiming for 1.5kg.
5. Determine if now is a good time to start brewing after the hot Canberra Summer

Materials
Fermentable Bill:
o 1.55kg Stringy Bark Honey
o 1 Orange, sliced in 8 pieces
Non-Fermentable Bill:
o 1 Clove
o 1 Cinnamon Stick
Brew Gear:
o Primary - 5L Glass Demijohn
o Small plastic funnel
o S style airlocks
Yeast Pitch:
o Dry Defiance Bread Yeast, direct pitch

Sanitisation Method:
1. Water (cold)
2. Regular Bleach (10mL for every 5L of water)
3. White Vinegar (10ML for every 5L of water)
4. Allowed to soak surfaces until ready for items (only really need 30 seconds to 2 minutes)
5. Rinse with water (hot) to neutralise even though not required for the amounts of bleach and vinegar used

Weather Forecast:
Sat-24/17, Sun 22/14, M-23/12, T-23/13, W-22/13

Procedures
1. 1.55kg Stringy Bark Honey measured out and weighed. Aimed for 1.5 but got extra weight.
2. Warm water added to Honey. Stirred slowly with spatula until liquid like pancake syrup.
3. Honey poured into 5L demijohn using small plastic funnel.
4. 8 slices of a washed and scrubbed Orange added.
5. 1 clove added.
6. 1 stick of cinnamon, smashed into pieces added.
7. 25 Raisins added.
8. Cold water to bring total volume of must to 3.8L added.
9. Closed Grolsch style lid and shook to oxygenate wort and mix in yeast.
10. S type airlock and bung fitted.
11. Airlock filled with sterilisation mixture.
12. 5L demijohn added to dark cupboard. 


EDIT: I just noticed I forgot to ask for your Finished Gravity level. We can formulate an amount of honey to add to reach a desired gravity level if you don't want to add a little honey and then taste and decide to add a little more or stop.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## watchUburn

thanks for the advice BP.
Since I'm still pretty new to the whole home brew business I haven't got to the point where I take notes while putting together the brew. After all, at the moment it's all following the recipe right? Irony there. As I've found out there still room to stuff it all up...

I think I did use navel oranges, and they were kinda big so I had to cut them into smaller pieces than the recipe said. This is before I found out about the impact of increased surface areas. The next JAO will be smaller oranges and as thin skinned as I can find.

I can't recall the exact yeast, it's not something I have in the house so borrowed some from a neighbour. Also as I didn't have a controlled temperature environment at the time the mead was going through some pretty high temps. Some of the days were mid 30s.

The hydrometer reading is at 1.031, I was expecting it to be much lower.

I'm not sure if I could be bothered 'saving' this brew. If it'll take 6 months for the fusels to age out, I might as well just chuck it and make a drinkable JAO in less time.


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## pdilley

Ouch, 35 C +/- a few degres is way to hot. Summer temperatures are mid 30's to mid 40's here and I waited for a stable set of temperatures in the low 20's without any spikes above 25 C predicted in the forecast to begin. Thats also why you finished first.

Don't stress it though, it is your first batch and only a small batch at that. All (correction: most) brewing we do won't work out at those temperatures. The magic number to keep the fermentation under is 25 C and my preference is to always ferment below the upper limits so for this particular recipe I would consider 18 to 22 to be an ideal range.

I should have noted the oranges but they were stock standard eating oranges from the local IGA available in March; small and juicy and good eating. I don't consider IGA great quality in their produce but if I remeber I forgot to pick some up and the IGA was under 2 minutes drive away so I ended up using them out of convenience.

I wish I could dig up one of those new small airline bottles for wine they give you these days--something small and plastic that won't break and I could mail you a sample to try. I have not flown for while now and the LHBS has specimen bottles which are small and plastic but that would not be very appetising to pour from 

This is going to be a sweet sack mead that can sometimes border on apertif territory so the sweet finish level is expected.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## pdilley

I put both JAOs in the brew fridge yesterday along with some Ale at 21 C and it has done both JAOs a world of good. By the time I got home from work and inspected the fridge to see if the Ale might need a blow off tube I looked at both JAOs and they are nearly twice as clear as when I put them both in. One had some refloated fruit so some CO2 bubbles must have caught two swollen raisins an gave them a lift up. Lets see how both of the JAOs look by weeks end when I get around to bottling the Ale.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## lokgnar

woohoo :lol: just checked on me mead i found out that its been 2.5 months and my friut has settled but not real clear been reading the last few posts so goin to fit in fridge to clear then bottle time.Time to clean some up thanks for all the help


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## pdilley

My JAOs are in the 5+ month stretch and have mellowed out a lot. Take a small sample to judge the alcohol levels. They are both still not to the clarity level as I am used to with other honey varietals, and I have used my stringy bark with brewing yeasts and they are not clear either so its not a yeast issue. My ironbark JAOs should show if its the varietal. That said I doubt they will last till my sparkaloid arrives from the States--My wife is hooked and has ordered that more be brewed.

Now that my bee hives are built I can get around to bottling them as well as my poor German Hefeweizen thats been in the kitchen on the bench for well over a week. 


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## lokgnar

hello all again um pete i havent noticed any differance in clarity after placeing in fridge its been about 2-3days i was just wondering i own a pet store and can a get a hold of carbon if i were to filter though this it shouldnt ruin it at all would it? (i have not taken it out of demijohn yet shoud i, is this my problem)

cheers
shawn


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## pdilley

The good news is its not effecting the flavour of the Mead. Its not bacterial or even likely a yeast issue.

The bad news is it looks like the age old Mead fault. That of suspended proteins in solution. While honeys are mostly sugars, bits of plant, pollens impart mixture of proteins. That is what boiling fixes. Honey varietals with protein cloudiness are boiled to induce protein break and removal of the protein helps Meads end clear. All Meads made with this batch of stringy bark are not clear even with variety of yeasts and knowing fermentation has completed. All have dense flocculation of yeast on the bottom of the secondaries and have lightened up cobsiderably over aging.

Its a shame if so as I wouldn't flag the variety for a stock Mead where its the honey standing on its own. Not as worried with the spiced Meads like JAO but it does mean the next batch gets the boil and skim method to compare to this current batch for clarity before making a final decision on protein as the cause.

Its still tasting great just wouldn't enter it in a competition in its current clarity state.

I'll have sparkaloid in a few months and will retain some of the current batch to see how well it clears.

Charcoal filtering would be ok if clarity is an issue for you.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## ~MikE

wouldn't carbon soak up all the flavours and aromas? if clarity is that big an issue, i'd suggest looking into methods used for flocculating protein haze out of white wines.


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## pdilley

One would normally think so as activated charcoal filtering is normally the domain of the spirit distillers.

However, if you look at the wine gear for the home wine maker, they sell filtering machines with replaceable filters including the activated charcoal, the buon vino super jet filter machine comes to mind. Now I think with those wine filter machines they still recommend keeping charcoal for use with spirits and come with a whole collection of filters to use starting with coarse particles.

What the filters are made from is any guess. It could end up being like ordinary coffee filter papers because the actual filters have names like "Crystalbrite" which are obvious made up marketing names.

I'm waiting on the clay based sparkolloid solution myself to see how it works as I'm not a filter person. I'd rather just drink it unfiltered as is if the sparkaloid can not shift it. Finings will effect taste the least and there exists a passionate antifiltration group in some of the wine making circles so its up to each individual as to what they want to choose.

If you want to drink it now and cloudiness bothers you then you have to pick one of the above. If you can wait a year then likely most issues will be gone.

I like it as it is, so does the wife. So I'm withholding some for the sparkolloid treatment to determine if boiling is the next method to apply to future stringy bark honeys when using them but most of it will be gone by then consumed in its current as-is state.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete

EDIT: can't spell


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## lokgnar

well if cloudyness doest mean much except for looks it shall be drunk as it is thanks agian


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## BjornJ

Brewer Pete said:


> Jeg tror vikingene drakk de mjd og brakte den til England.
> 
> Franksmennene likte druer bedre.
> 
> Har har! Slaps you heartily on the back and welcomes you into the Mead Hall.




hei, er det flere Nordmenn her!
jeg har ikke laget mjd fr, men vil gjerne prve..

Do you read Norwegian, BrewerPete or did you just find it on a brew site somewhere?
 

Bjorn


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## pdilley

min familie flyttet fra Langeland til Tyskland og derette til Australia
men jeg forstr det snakkes norsk bedre enne danske 

do give making meads a try, they really are tasty and are quite unique in that although maybe being a bit closer to wine, they are nit wines nor beers. time is all you need to make really good Meads

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## pdilley

lokgnar said:


> well if cloudyness doest mean much except for looks it shall be drunk as it is thanks agian



Do sample it, while there are wine faults that lead to cloudiness that can be bacterialy based, its highly unlikely in this case. All I got from extended aging was well mellowed JAO with any harsh edge from being young well gone away. Its hit its peak and won't get dramatically better from here on out.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## pdilley

Its bottling day.

Just to show you where we started from:

JAO 1 Clove and JAO 2 Clove on Day #1





JAO 2 removed from brew fridge where it has lived for past couple of months. The flash reflects back and makes it cloudier than it really is under normal light so take that into account its not as bad as the flash photo shows.



A huge reduction in colour and apart from the suspected protein haze with the Stringy Bark varietal (future Stringy Bark JAOs will get the boil treatment to test the protein haze hypothesis), it tastes just like JAO should, and dangerously so. Bottles for this and its twin, 1 Clove, today and I only pray they last out the weekend when SWMBO notices them in the house and all bottled up.

The brand of Cloves I bought showed no noticeable difference in strength between one and two clove versions. Both are very close in potency. However, do test your brand first as I have had cloves that do show quite difference when doubled up at this volume.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


EDIT: Add Post Bottling Photo.

The bottling is done.

Mmmmmm doesn't that look a treat. Not bad for months on end pickled in Mead.



Time to clean and then get these demi's back into making the next batch of Mead!


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## lokgnar

wel mine tasted really really bad even after adding honey to sweetin it up and is there a easy way to empty it (demijohn) out like you of course got to filter it while pouring it into bottles but how? please im only a simpleton and ask many question which may seem easy to other people. so im going to try agian this weekend without the naval orange and go for the other smaller type which should fix my problem, also i thoght i had today would mandarins work?


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## pdilley

Define bad, do you have watch's over bittering from orange issue or fusel hot alcohol from high fermentation temperatures? These seem to be the two faults most people are ending up with

The fusels we can solve with temperature controls. This is the easiest of all to solve.

The oranges we are going to have to make a roster of Australian oranges and time of year/season to determine what varieties are too bitter to use. This is the harder one to solve as it will take a few brews of all the varietals to get a list. I'm going to have to make more attention in selection than IGA oranges on special in March 2009.

Now what an orange does for JAO is two things.

1. Orange flavour. Take a slice of orange and eat it and save the skin. Take the skin in your fingers and squeeze it with the orange skin on the outside curve of the squeeze. You will see droplets fly out of the orange skin.

These droplets are a little water but also "essential oils" This is what gives the orange flavour to JAO. Orange is a flavour that mixes well with cloves and also with cinnamon and is a mixture in many old food recipes.

2. Bitterness. You need to balance bitter with sweet. Same concept as balancing sweet malt in beer with bitter hops. The whites of the orange is the pith. The pith is bitter at different levels in different varieties of oranges. This is as in hops where some hop varieties are more intensely bitter than other hops. The same with oranges. The number of slicesis a critical measure to expose enough pith to bitter but not too much to over bitter. As with beer where if a hop is very bitter you use less with orange pith its the same concept. You can still use the oranges you have used but you must reduce the pith in the bottle than what you have done in your over bitter brew of JAO.

Only you know bow much over bitter your brew is. So to cut back bitter you need to make the call.

Your techniques include grating the skin or "zesting" you orange. This gets you the essential oil essence of Orange for flavour (and some bitterness). You could stop there and just add orange fruit chunks and zest and leave all the skin and pith out. Or you could add a small slice or two etc. of pith and skin along with the zest and orange fruit segments. 

If you switch to another fruit like the mandarin you change the flavour profile and you still have to fine tune your bitterness levels to that fruit. Its recommended to fine tune your orange levels to learn whats your best ratio of zest and fruit in tbe fermenter to bow much if any pith.


Temperature, just buy a TempMate controller and use a brew fridge and heater so you can dial in exact temperature and leave your JAO alone until done. This will be critical to any and all future brewing be it mead or beer and will be one of the best investments in your endeavours.

With those two faults elimanted nothing should stop you from knocking out perfect Meads with regular consistency.

For now though working on getting your bittering levels right will cost less in spare money bit cost more in your time to sort out what your local oranges work best at.



In the meantime post your method, size/type of Orange and how many slices. Fermentation temps and timeline.

I'll go see about the brands of each ingredient I used and put them up.

EDIT: Tomorrow after work I can get a photo of the racking/bottling setup posted.

Cheers,

Brewer Pete


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## BjornJ

I have read this post a couple of times over the last few days.
Never really thought of making mead before, this post makes it sound uncomplicated and fun!

After reading the feedback I am left with 2 questions it would probably pay to get some feedback on before giving it a shot:

1: What kind of bread yeast? I must admit my only source of dry bakers yeast will be woolworth/coles, is there a particular type to aim for? (I understood the recipe as using an American type)

2: Use half an orange rather than a whole orange? If using a too large, too thick-skinned or too thinly sliced orange will give a too bitter flavour, should I aim for maybe half an orange and just grab a random one from the supermarket?

Won't have time to try this for a little while yet, but has started wondering what this would taste like  

thanks
Bjorn


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## pdilley

Bjorn reread the above. Typing on my phone so I was editing the a above when you posted.

The two biggest faults discovered to date are bittering problems and too high a fermentation temperature.

If you have a large Orange with thick white pith I would recommend zest it and add the fruit and zest and leage out the pith for now. The only risk is a sweet mead with a need for more bittering. Its easier to add in more bitter than take it out so err on the sweet side will give you more movement room to correct.

Fermentation temperatures. Too hot in all brewing is bad. Keep it under 25C and 18-22 would be considered preferred range. This is less of a problem in the States because Australia gets a lot hotter than most of the places in the States.

As with all brewing when your temperatures get too cold the yeast get sluggish and will go dormant. So keeping the Mead warm but not too warm is the other challenge over here. This is probably harder for the begginer to control but the easiest to fix; just costs about $70 or so for a TempMate and a fridge and a heater source like a heat belt or rish tank heater. You dial your wanted temperature in and shut the fridge and walk away and its all taken care of for you.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## MHB

The haze problems some are experiencing is probably Pectin, and can easily be cleared up with the addition of a little Pectinase.

Or by keeping pith the hell out of your mead.

MHB


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## lokgnar

ok it was over bitter,i used a large naval ornage which i believe is the start of me problem and i went against ur 1st rule (cause i was goin by a home brew shop at the time) and bought a sn9 yeast suppose to be a sweet wine/mead yeast so it says on packet temps were pretty good though colder months because i oun a pet shop i had a heat mat there so i dont believe me heatin is a problem it many have got to the higher 20's on 1 or 2 days but that was toward the end im in queensland bout 1/2 from ipswich, an 11/2 from brisbane so when i start again this weekend the temp will be perfect for away cause its startin to warm up to around the 24C

thanks
shawn


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## pdilley

Thats another good a avenue to explore as oranges can set jelly without additional pectin when boiled. This is a no boil recipe to have set a pectin gel, although we do have the low pH after fermentation and sugars before fermentation that pectin gel likes.. I'll do a pectin test and grab some liquid pectinase next LBHS trip if its positive.

Cheers,
Brewe Pete


EDIT: Photographs


Sample is set up. We will see what precipitates in the test.

Heres some photographs that show why I'm not thinking I will get much from the test:

Mead 1




This mead one has no fruit, no spice, stock standard Mead.
It uses a different yeast and the only thing it shares with JAO is not only Stringy Bark honey but the exact same batch of Stringy Bark honey from the farm.


Mead 2



This mead also has no fruit, no spice and a different yeast.
Again, the only thing it shares with JAO is not only Stringy Bark honey but the exact same batch of Stringy Bark honey from the farm.


I trusted the source enough not to do a honey adulteration test and I'm not about to jump up and say they have been adulterating. But I should have done an iodine test for starch based honey adulteration just to clear my mind and the slate.

Both Meads are going to go through extended ageing so that will also give me clues as they age and precipitate as to what has happened with the last batch of JAOs. It will require a bit of patience but it will be worth it.

I've never had a JAO go cloudy as that before so I'm still thinking proteins in suspension instead of saccharides. 

I do have another variety of honey from the farm I can do an Iodine test on but thats not a good control as its a completely different processing batch and variety of honey. Unfortunately my original batch of Stringy Bark from the farm is completely used up.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## pdilley

lokgnar said:


> ok it was over bitter,i used a large naval ornage which i believe is the start of me problem and i went against ur 1st rule (cause i was goin by a home brew shop at the time) and bought a sn9 yeast suppose to be a sweet wine/mead yeast so it says on packet temps were pretty good though colder months because i oun a pet shop i had a heat mat there so i dont believe me heatin is a problem it many have got to the higher 20's on 1 or 2 days but that was toward the end im in queensland bout 1/2 from ipswich, an 11/2 from brisbane so when i start again this weekend the temp will be perfect for away cause its startin to warm up to around the 24C
> 
> thanks
> shawn




Ah shawn there we go.

First one. Using a different yeast. (Do not worry I also ended up in a similar brew shop and was "sold the goods" on SN9 and bought one  just that I left mine sitting on the shelf). Here is why:

SN9 is an 18% ABV yeast. It is more like using champagne yeast than what the recipe calls for.

The bread yeast is closer to a 12% ABV yeast. It will leave the residual sugars that give the balance to the bitterness the orange gives the recipe.



Second one, orange, we now are not sure if you orange was over bittering as the final residual sugar balance was eaten up by the SN9 yeast substitution.

However, you did add in honey and said you did not find you could get it balanced.

Honey is a bit expensive and a waste to have you keep adding and use a hydro until you hit above 1.030's if you have an over bitter state.



The temperatures sound like you were spot on. Just that you will have to give up all faith and close your eyes and go with the bread yeast if you want this recipe to work.


If you want to use another yeast I can recalculate all the additional honey you will have to put in to get the same finish level of sweetness but you will have something different than JAO as you will have a higher proof. And 18% ABV yeasts will leave higher alcohols that will require a year to age out of your Mead so you will not be drinking it sooner but much later.


Give it a go if your temperatures are in the range and this time close your eyes and pour in a packet of bread yeast.



Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## pdilley

Nothing has changed haze wise nor any precipitation so far from the Pectin test sample.


As promised, here is a photo of the super simple Mead bottling solution.



A standard bottling wand (spring activated tip) from the LHBS and a length of tubing that goes around it from the LHBS.

To use, simply fill with water during your rinse.

Holding the spring side lower than the open end of the hose, dunk it down into your 5L Demijohn until it is sitting on top of the fruit and at least just above the yeast layer.


Then using the second piece of gear a spare container (bowl, or as I use glass bottom of a coffee plunger) You press the spring loaded tip against the bottom of the container.

Water flows out into the container and pulls JAO mead into the tube. You can see the air gap where the pick up starts and once thats clear you will also smell a strong aroma of lovely mead.

Stop pressing down on the tip.


Lift the tip out of the container and place it into a ready and waiting bottle (I line all mine up next to each other for a production run) and press it down against the bottom of the bottle.

The bottle fills up to the top. 

Stop pressing down and lift out. The fluid level will fall a few centimetres as the bulk of the wand is removed from the bottle so fill them all the way to the top before removing the wand.

Add the cap (bench capper or screw on cap depending on your bottle -- or cork if you have a wine setup.)


Done!


Lots of lovely Mead ready to be drunk. Hopefully not all at once over the first weekend!


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## watchUburn

My second JAO attempt was with an orange that had a much thinner pith. I found with the navel (naval? I dunno) orange I couldn't actually fit the recommended number of slices into the demi-john. I had to slice them smaller just to fit.
I just checked the fridge and the fruit is still floating  So the wait goes on...

Thanks for posting how you siphon your mead Pete. I've been a little concerned about this mead. It looks like there's a mouldy yeast colony up in the neck of the container. Probably stranded when I poured the yeast in. I really didn't want to have pour the mead out through the neck and run it over that stuff.


----------



## pdilley

Sounds like yeah, a wet demijohn from pouring all the water and honey in and then dry pitch of yeast stuck to the neck area on a wet spot. Don't stress it too much at this point. It looks a lot nastier when you see the left overs after you bottle your JAO 

I'll start to run a table of results showing successful JAOs made from listening to experts who say to change the yeast to something else or change something else in the recipe to something else and then side-by-side show many successful JAOs made from following the instructions as written and using the bread yeast. Hopefully as time progresses those results should be enlightening to all future beginners.

With the number of slices of orange, yeah you need to follow that to the letter of the recipe. If it doesn't fit you smush them in juicing them as it goes and losing some girth from swollen orange juice holding cells bursting open and just keep pushing them through until they fall through and go plop!  . No one will grade you for your orange slice pushing-it-in-the-jar technique  and you will stuff it up if you decide to deviate from the recipe and slice them down again.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## watchUburn

Attempt 2 is 'by the book'.


----------



## pdilley

watchUburn said:


> Attempt 2 is 'by the book'.



Good now I have a decent reason to be anxious too 

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## lokgnar

im didoing watchUburn aswell following to the letter this time and i have the bread yeast, im still with the naval ornage but a least half the size as the last 1


----------



## pdilley

Hands raw and red from sewing chicken wire on my chicken coop outside but came in to change the battery on the drill.

I think I will need to change the recipe to say MEDIUM orange instead of LARGE orange. People here seem to be going for the GIGANTIC oranges on the shelf 

Safer that way 

Other than that the recipe stands.

I gave away some JAO today to someone going overseas to Argentina on holidays.

They smelled and tasted and thought it was one of the most amazing things they have had.

So there is a great reward for doing it right waiting for you!


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

Looks like JAO will be on call for PeteOz77's Birthday in Canberra.

It also looks like the JAO is running out FAST!!!


Time to start thinking about designing a
25 Litre JAO Recipe!

Ok one minor change to the original recipe, when I say large orange, some people are thinking the incredibly large sized oranges  Or luck out and get oranges that have not been watered very well by farmers and are all thick pith and very little juicy fruit inside.

I took a look at oranges at the local supermarket and the imported blood orange or pre-bagged stock standard oranges seemed the size I would use. I looked at the individual pick your own oranges for sale like the Aussie Navels and they were huge!

From now on it is Medium Orange! Thin Pith/Skin section in the JAO recipes.


For a 30 Litre Demijohn (or fermenter you have handy)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

10.56 kilograms honey (never boiled or lose the taste and aromas) (should be close to 7.4 Litres of the liquid gold)
6 1/2 medium sized oranges, pick the ones without thick skin/pith (at most cut them into fifty-two pieces and no more! -- rind and all)
6 1/2 small handfuls of raisins (162 of the little buggars if you feel like counting)
6 1/2 sticks of cinnamon (its brown, its wood, its good)
6 whole cloves (or less if you have fresh high potency cloves in your packet)
optional (6 finger pinches of nutmeg and allspice )( very small mind you ) 
2 Tablespoons of bread yeast (now don't get holy on me about bread yeast -- if you change the yeast we can add your batch to the failed JAO listing)
Balance water to bring batch out to 25 Litres (You should be very close to 17.6 Litres of water added)

Process:

Use a clean 30 litre fermenter.

Dissolve honey in some warm water and put in fermenter.

Wash oranges very well to remove any pesticides and slice each orange into eights until you have 52 slices of orange. Since we are using a large fermenter this time, all the oranges should easily toss right in.

Put in raisins, clove, cinnamon stick (I crush mine first with a rolling pin or by putting them in a plastic baggie then a hammer), any optional ingredients and fill demijohn with water until it reaches the 25 litres mark with cold water (need some room for some foam -- you can top off with more water after the first few days foaming frenzy). (You did remember to pour in a measured 25 litres and mark off the level on the outside of the glass demijohn if your fermenter does not already have liquid levels marked on it?)

Oxygenate before pitching in the yeast using your favourite method.

When liquid is at room temperature, put in 2 Tablespoons of bread yeast (no you don't have to rehydrate it first -- the ancients did not even have that word in their vocabulary -- just put it in and give it a gentle swirl or not)(The yeast can fight for their own territory)

Install your airlock or cling film method of choice. Remember this is a multi-month fermentation so choose your method accordingly.

Brew between 18C to 22C. Now that we have a decent amount of honey money on the line its time to get serious with this sized batch and get it fermenting perfectly "in the Zone".

If you do not have a dedicated brew fridge you can allocate for a few months then do what I do and run them indoors with an immersed fish tank heater that is either properly calibrated with an external thermometer until it constantly holds a temperature of a test batch of water between 18C to 22C and just let it sit in a nice dark spot out of the way for a few months. Best do this before summer hits. If temperatures inside the house go over 25C and are climbing higher each day then you need to buckle down and put the 30 Litre fermenter of JAO in the brew fridge for the last portion of the fermentation.


EDIT: Brewer Pete's Mead Recipe Creator Program's calculated figures:

Honey Needed: 10.56 kilograms
Honey Needed: 7.41 litres
Water Needed: 17.59 litres
Total Volume: 25.00 litres
Fermenter Size: 30 litres
Starting Gravity: 1.126


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## watchUburn

If watchUburn's 'JAOtake2' turns out alright I'll definitely be considering this drastic course.


----------



## Verbyla

I still haven't tried mine but it just cleared up over the last few days. I was extremely surprised how it went from being that milky orange to crystal clear in what feels like overnight. I used red gum honey and don't think i had any of that suspended protein. Can't wait to try it!!!


----------



## pdilley

If you stick to the recipe and it comes out you are in for a nice surprise. You will understand why someone has gone off and brewed over 200 litre batch of JAO and was contemplating a 400+ litre batch brew 

Clearing Meads are lovely how they just sneak up on you. Shows you how you're not really needed  Yeast has survived millennia without brewers present so we need to just make them as perfect as a home as possible to grow inside of and leave them to their devices.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## Verbyla

Ok so i just looked at my JAO and there is a few white dots of bacteria growing at the top of the jar. The fruit hasn't dropped but its been sitting in there for 4 weeks. 

Do i transfer to another container now or do i let it sit until the fruit has dropped and had time to properly soak?


----------



## watchUburn

4 weeks? its barely had time to get its feet wet.  Mine's been in for 6 weeks now and the fruit's still floating. I think once the fruit drops, then its ready to bottle / consume


----------



## Verbyla

The main reason i was asking was due to the bacteria.

Any need for concern or should i just leave it?


----------



## watchUburn

I don't think so. Mine has a healthy colony of bread yeast that got stranded there when I pitched it. Just have to be careful when siphoning it out. I reckon we better avoid pouring it


----------



## pdilley

Four weeks is very quick for a fermentation. JAO was a 2 1/2 month fermentation and nearly 3 month fruit drop for me in uncontrolled temperatures on the colder end of the brewing spectrum.

White spots. If this is your first time fermenting in glass fermenters or anything that is not plastic that prevents you from seeing inside then a lot of times you will consider normal yeast and fermentation activity to be contaminations. It is fairly common to have some yeast trapped on the surface and stuck to the sides of the ferment during and immediately after fermentation. Do not be alarmed.

White is also the colour associated with yeast. If you have seen krausen before you will see it throw up white foam and then browning occurs as the krausen dissipates. Edit: You will even see clumps of yeast floating around fermentations be they meads or beers if you start to do your work with all glass fermenters.

If you have something going fuzzy and growing a new coat, or tendrils running down into the mead and looking like a monster trying to crawl out of the fermenter then you would want to worry. But small white spots on its own during fermentation is not a worry. 

Also start to use your nose and sniff for vinegar or bad odours in the gas coming out of the airlock to use as a tip off that something is moving off the normal fermentation expectation.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## Verbyla

Thanks for the advice guys.

It's the first time i've ever used glass as a primary fermenter so i guess you nailed it on the head brewer pete!


----------



## 3GumsBrewing

Quick question - what do you guys bottle the JAO in? Mine mead is nice and clear, all the fruit has dropped to the bottom thought i might bottle it this weekend. 
Not to sure 750ml or Grolsch bottles really suit. 
Thought I might have a few 330ml lying around but they are screw tops, never had to bottle with screwys, will they age ok?

Cheers
DK


----------



## pdilley

DK,

JAO is a young drinking mead and as you notice with hops over time in beers diminishing in aroma and flavour, the same with spices as with JAO. While aging helps with any fast fermented or very young mead mellow out any hot fusel alcohol, the spices will taper off and mellow as well. The balance of JAO spices will peak at or around the six month mark and slowly taper off from there.

So your choice of bottling will be influenced by this and by how much you want in a single bottle. At four times beer strength you won't be wanting to drink a whole 750ml in one session nor would you with a spiced mead like this which is more easily taken in moderation. There are no hops so your choice in bottle is wide open in colours, shapes, seals. If giving JAO as gifts then you can fancy it up in a nice wine bottles with labels but for own use beer bottles are fine. Because you will open and close a container often if only having small amounts then you might want to go with twist tops, grolsch or even PET would be an option as it's not a long aged mead. I use twist top bottles when walking around letting lots of people sample JAO in larger groups.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## watchUburn

My JAO has gone almost crystal clear, just waiting for that darned fruit to drop and I'll be bottling mine too.


----------



## BjornJ

Just put down my first mead ever!

Followed the recipe to the dot, with 25 (counted)  ,the medium-sized Navel orange in 8 parts, 1.6 kg of honey, a cinnamon stick and a single clove, plus a teaspoon of dry bakers yeast.

I don't have a demijon so I just bought a 5 litre water container of Neverfail, used the water for the mead and the container as the fermenter.

Can't wait to see how this turns out!
 


thanks
Bjorn


----------



## pdilley

Ahh, 1st Taste of Well Made Mead





Making First Time Drinkers Happy since time immemorial!



It even makes reused water containers happy to be brewing it!





Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

Another day and another chance for JAO to impress. A bottle taken to James' birthday celebration went down well with everyone and even got one mate whom James had been working on getting into brewing unsuccessfuly to get up and say he's going to start brewing and start brewing JAO Mead. Even Steve got his first tasting of the mythical JAO 

Love days like this and sharing JAO and spreading the love of good Mead!

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## Steve

Brewer Pete said:


> Another day and another chance for JAO to impress. A bottle taken to James' birthday celebration went down well with everyone and even got one mate whom James had been working on getting into brewing unsuccessfuly to get up and say he's going to start brewing and start brewing JAO Mead. Even Steve got his first tasting of the mythical JAO
> 
> Love days like this and sharing JAO and spreading the love of good Mead!
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete



Thanks for sharing! Will be reading this thread from the start now.....and then one will be going into a fermenter!
Cheers
Steve


----------



## 3GumsBrewing

Bottled my first JAO yesterday, I found a cache of 5 clear port bottles that all had less than 50ml in each, drank all that, cleaned the bottles and the in went the mead. Only then did I allow a taste and .... bloody hell it is the gods nectar. Very very tasty and sweet, I am really pleased how it turned out.  

Going to put another one down this weekend.

Cheers
DK


----------



## pdilley

Steve I do believe we have another fellow Viking Mead Drinker welcomed into the hallowed halls 

Way to go DK!

Now you know what all the fuss is about in a big way!

hehe and now you will not listen when anyone tells you the dirty on bread yeast!


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

> Install water airlock. Put in dark place. It will start working immediately or in an hour. (Don't use grandma's bread yeast she bought years before she passed away in the 90's -- use the fresh stuff) (Wait 3 hours before you panic or call me) After major foaming stops in a few days add some water and then keep your hands off of it. (Don't shake it! Don't mess with them yeastees! Leave them alone except its okay to open your cabinet to inhale deeply the smell every once in a while.)



love hindsight 

"After major foaming stops in a few days add some water if needed if you lost liquid from any foam spewing out your airlock and dropping your liquid level below 3.8 litres ..." is what I was thinking while writing.. Must have not finished typing before brain got onto next sentence...

Just in case that one line ever confused anyone 


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## BjornJ

My mead just sits quietly in the cupboard and ferments without any foam or krausen or anything?
It is definetly fermenting, it smells of yeast and there is a bit of foam around the floating fruit, but nothing like a beer.
is this normal?
(or did I just go "why is my airlock not bubbling??? Hope Butters don't see this)

Bjorn


----------



## pdilley

No vigorous foaming is expected. Its a safety disclaimer  Even my Mead Calc is set to calculate decent sized safety head space into most recipes calculated that should not be filled or lead to blow over of yeast krausen except in very rare cases.

When you start doing nutrient additions and making the honey must look like beer wort to the yeast then you'll see some decently thick and high krausen on Meads. This is when the Mead Calc will be rather spot on with head space and you'll really start to appreciate it.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## lokgnar

wowhoo 2nd atempt lookin good has gone a clear beutiful amber (not like last time) and just waiting for fruit to drop i hope it does b4 weekend leaving my truck job to work in my pet shop that my wife has been running for the last 2.5 years it would be a nice leaveing a great job prezzy


----------



## watchUburn

My fruit won't drop! grrrr


----------



## pdilley

I bet you are glad that this is a very quick Mead  

...but oh so worth the wait as DK has found out. He's in heaven!!

It is good training wheels for developing the patience required for traditional Meads where you have years to wait!

At least you can get a lot of JAOs in while waiting for the others to age out properly.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## 3GumsBrewing

Yep total heaven! Really is a top drop.
I have another one in the carboy at the moment with a few tweaks.

By the way BP, what BJCP category would the JAO fit into?
I was thinking the 26C. Open Category Mead because it "combines ingredients from two or more of the other mead sub-categories"

What do you think?

DK


----------



## pdilley

Its a Melomel Mead and a Metheglin Mead and a Sack Mead.

So its a Sack-o-Meth-o-Mel? 

It could fit into 26A if you argue the orange peel is for spice, but then what about the orange fruit, or the raisins? so 26C seems the best bet.

They need a new category of Mead for Bloody Beautiful! :lol: 

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## upsidefront

Please Help!!!!!!!!!

PB or anybody!!!

Put my first JAO down on 9th of June. Two weeks ago the fruit starts dropping( very very slowly), dropping continued till only One slice of orange left floating. Everything else, and I mean everything else, including the cinnamon dropped. Had a look today and what have we here?? All the orange slices are floating again!!!!!! WTF!!!!!!! :angry: The cinnamon and all else stayed at the bottom just not the oranges. 

What is going on???? Will my JAO work or am I going to have to tip it all out?


----------



## pdilley

You are fine. As any CO2 bubbles come out of the yeast they can collect on fallen fruit and re-float them. If you are eager you can call it done if clear and the fruit fell. 

Bottle in the size that's suits you and you can knock off like with a wine after opening a bottle before it oxidises and you'll be set. It's slower to oxidise than most wine but if you don't knock it off then use it for your cooking. 

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## davewaldo

I'm sure it will be fine, mead really does take patience, and your's seems to want to reinforce that fact 

I would say its best just to wait longer. All sorts of things can make the fruit rise again, anything from CO2 bubbles to the change in atmospheric pressure. 

Although, if you REALLY wanted to, you could probably rack off the fruit at this stage, however this is against the ethos of a JAO.

Is it looking really clear yet? Clear enough to read newspaper through the carboy? If not then you need to wait longer anyways... floating fruit or not. 

But Pete is the JAO expert here, so he may have better answers from experience.

edit: BP beat me to it


----------



## upsidefront

Thanks PB and davewaldo.

Gee you guys sure are clever!!  On closer examination, saw lots and lots of very small bubbles on the oranges. The newspaper trick revealed that it sure is clear could read the whole sport section through the demi!! :lol: 

This all begs the question: If the yeast is still releasing co2, to float the oranges, is the fermentation done? I would think not as this seems to indicate yeast activity.


----------



## davewaldo

It might be finished, I would say that it probably is finished if its so clear. The bubbles could just be coming out of solution due to the warming weather. But its hard to know for sure, I usually age my meads for at least 6 months anyways so its not normally an issue.

If you have another demi you could rack into this and age for a little longer. Or, when you are confident its finished fermenting you could bottle direct from the primary demi.

Either way is sounds like you should have mead ready for Christmas! YAY!


----------



## davewaldo

And speaking of Christmas Mead....

I'm currently fermenting a hi-tech JAO. I only started it 2 weeks ago, and I'm trying to have it ready for Christmas (I know, dreaming right...).

So anyways, I've used US05 yeast with staggered nutrient additions and aeration up the 1/3 sugar break. So basically I'm breaking all the rules and not keeping it simple as JAO is meant to be. But there was no way a traditional JAO would be ready for Christmas. 

At the moment its just finishing a really nice quick and healthy ferment. Maybe a day or two to go, then I'm going to crash chill it to drop everything and then rack to secondary to finish off and get a little ageing and clearing berfore Christmas.

I doubt it will be ready, but it should be close I hope. Its tasting great so far


----------



## watchUburn

wow, that's really.... red


----------



## davewaldo

Yeah, I think thats just the dodgy colour from my camera on my phone. Its really just a golden yeasty colour.


----------



## watchUburn

Looks like one of those photos taken in black and white then coloured in later...


----------



## upsidefront

Well at long last I bottled my JAO. Put it down early June and waited and waited and ............  
Man this stuff is real good!!! :beer: 
A new problem has arrived: There is just no way that my next batch will be ready for bottling BEFORE this batch has been dispatched :lol: 
It is smooth, flavoursome and not hot at all!!
The sweetness is just right, no bitterness, all's well!!!!

I LOVE MEAD!!!!! :wub:


----------



## pdilley

Sweet news of a sweet reward of a very VERY NOICE recipe!

Now you can see how you can win Mead competitions with this, and you can smile when the old guys screw up their noses when you mention the yeast  but now you know what they will be missing out on 




> Man this stuff is real good!!!
> A new problem has arrived: There is just no way that my next batch will be ready for bottling BEFORE this batch has been dispatched




Now you know why I have the recipe scaled up in size just for this moment when the first time JAO brewers realise just how damn noice this mead really is:
Take a look at 25 Litre Batch of JAO Mead Recipe

If you need a custom sized batch recipe for your specific fermenter let me know and I will formulate a JAO just for your gear.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## amiddler

When bottling a Mead do you need to add and carbonating sugar? I would guess that you don't but still unsure. After reading some of this thread I will look into doing a Mead in the future. What type of honey is everyones favourite to use? Luckily Gero has started a farmers market with local honey so getting fresh honey will be easy.

Drew


----------



## Tim F

Wow, I found this thread at just the right time  A friend from a lab just gave me a 10L glass bottle yesterday and I think this will be the first thing I make in it. Should be lovely by Xmas!


----------



## pdilley

Drew said:


> When bottling a Mead do you need to add and carbonating sugar? I would guess that you don't but still unsure. After reading some of this thread I will look into doing a Mead in the future. What type of honey is everyones favourite to use? Luckily Gero has started a farmers market with local honey so getting fresh honey will be easy.



A lot of Meads including JAO get bottled still, just like a wine. As you progress through different styles and recipes you will get a chance to do some carbonated. For now just find a nice bottle small enough that you could knock it off when opened like a wine before the Mead starts to oxidise and you will be fine.

Farmers market fresh sounds good. Variation in quality is still present as its hobbyists and backyard beeks making the honey and each individual is well .. individual when it comes to treatment (heat, purity, adulteration aka feeding tons of sugar and water syrup which ends up in the honey instead of nectar). But a good way to test including with any honey variety that no one posts any experience with is to just take some of the honey and dilute it in a glass with water, say 2 1/2 or 3 to one ratio to dilute the honey down. Taste it and see if you like the taste, it will be sweeter as no yeast have eaten the sugars but you have the initial and lingering tastes in the mouth to judge.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

Tim F said:


> Wow, I found this thread at just the right time  A friend from a lab just gave me a 10L glass bottle yesterday and I think this will be the first thing I make in it. Should be lovely by Xmas!



It would be pushing it to make a deadline like XMAS if starting now. Better to let the Mead take its course and finish when its ready. The only way I can see it happening if you let temperatures go high and ferment it out quickly which will get you there quick and also ruin the flavour. So best just control the temperatures and let it sit and do its thing and wait it out.

Starting now means hot weather so temp control will become all the more serious and necessary.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## shonks69

Thanks Brewer Pete

I've never made mead before but i'm gonna give it a go.
I was thinking about adding a couple of chillies to the recipe, do you see any problems with this?

Cheers
Shonks :icon_cheers:


----------



## pdilley

shonks69,

I see no issues if you like chillies to want to modify the recipe *BUT* you have to follow the cardinal rule.

You must make the recipe *exactly as formulated* first or concurrently at the same time as any modified recipe so you have a proper baseline to compare your modifications of the recipe to and also to give the original recipe a chance to impress you with its balance of all ingredients as an example of how to take your mead making to a craftbrewing level.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## lokgnar

BOTTLE TIME!!!!!!! fruit has setlled to the bottom for the 2 days been cystal clear for the last week and a half the s filter has no pressure so takin that yeast have done there job have me bottles ready go time hope this lot is a lot better then last 1 i made must admit looks a lot better


----------



## pdilley

Congratulations lokgnar!, I'm eager to see you get it bottled  . Smaller bottles if only you are drinking so you have a chance to knock it off before it oxidises after opening the bottle and after you are done a little sample of the left over mead is in order.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## lokgnar

bottling went well taste isnt the gods nectar yet is has a little bitterness to it is there something i could put in the bottles while there in fridge i know when you bottle beer you put a well it looks like barley sugar but cant seem to find them atm so will that work or is there another way?


----------



## pdilley

lokgnar,

Maybe we should start to look at a water report for your local supply and see if we can find anything effecting you. If so it will effect all your brewing and you'll need to adjust. With regard to bottling lollies, what would you be trying to achieve?

I have the bee meeting tomorrow night but will have time after work on Friday to look into the report.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## lokgnar

report like from dpi? or something that can get from the council if i ask and thought the sugar things to add sweetness to over come the slight bitterness that doesnt quite make the taste quite right it is drinkable not like last time but not quite right



Brewer Pete said:


> lokgnar,
> 
> Maybe we should start to look at a water report for your local supply and see if we can find anything effecting you. If so it will effect all your brewing and you'll need to adjust. With regard to bottling lollies, what would you be trying to achieve?
> 
> I have the bee meeting tomorrow night but will have time after work on Friday to look into the report.
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

lokgnar,

With brewing when a recipe produces consistent results, even if they are bad and the same recipe produces expected results for other brewers you look at geographical separation and factors that are outside the normal control of brewers in different locations, water being one of the good ones to look at. Water composition can have a lot of different effects so that was the first thing that came to mind when you said you had the same bitterness. Your water may be pulling or enhancing the bitterness drawing out of the oranges.

Another avenue to consider is people have different taste genes. Some people are hyper sensitive to certain flavours that others find normal or can not taste at all very well. Diacetyl is one example, if you are hyper sensitive to diacetyl even the tiniest drop into a full glass could ruin the whole drink for you where others can have drop after drop and not notice anything wrong. For others they are hypersensitive to hops, etc. So even the smallest amount of hops that another person would have difficulty tasting or wanting more of could to the sensitive person seem like too much and be the dominating flavour that comes through for them.

We know the recipe works for other people as written so we need to examine what is unique or specific about your location, and your brewing technique and handling that could account for your perceived differences in the resulting JAO. If it is an environmental like the water it is something that could be corrected. If it is a sensitivity you have then the recipe could be adjusted to say all fruit but only 1/4 worth of the orange fruit with skin on with all the rest being just the orange fruit itself without skins.

Anyway, back from beekeeper meeting so really out of energy so we can keep working on it 

EDIT: forgot to finish my sentence, what I was going to say was if we find you are consistent with your brewing of this astringency or bitterness then it would also hint towards another common ingredient, say the water profile that is different to the areas where brewers are having success with the recipe.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## lokgnar

righto i may have gone a little hay wire when i said it had the bitterness as b4. there is a slight bitterness to it (nothin like last batch were it felt like you were drinkin a warm beer and then times it by a thousand i really hate the taste of beer, again to bitter usally a rum drinker so if that means anything i dont no) but i placed my bottles in the fridge and it has helped with taste its more of an after taste of bitter so while drinkin tastes good . i have a feelin it may have been the heat that has made my yeast a bit more active towards the end (last 3-4 weeks of brewing) i live in SE Queensland o pretty warm even in the bottom of linen cubboard were its the coolest part of my house. Anyway well past my bed time been work in my shop gettin ready for our friday the 13th massive sale upto 60% off if anybody is near boonah queensland come and see looks great anyway enough sellin shop if this little bit of info helps you help me that would be tops.

Thanks pete

Shawn


----------



## shonks69

Brewer Pete said:


> shonks69,
> 
> I see no issues if you like chillies to want to modify the recipe *BUT* you have to follow the cardinal rule.
> 
> You must make the recipe *exactly as formulated* first or concurrently at the same time as any modified recipe so you have a proper baseline to compare your modifications of the recipe to and also to give the original recipe a chance to impress you with its balance of all ingredients as an example of how to take your mead making to a craftbrewing level.
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete



Thanks Pete

I just put the modified chilli recipe down tonight (as per recipe with pinch of nutmeg & allspice, 1 clove & 4 Thai hot chillies). I will put down your original recipe this weekend to create a benchmark.
with respect to bottling, can the bottle be resealed after opening or does it hat to be consumed once open.

I will keep you posted on the Chilli recipe

Cheers
Shonks :icon_cheers:


----------



## pdilley

Shawn,

I don't drink Rum, or I should say, never straight and have not for about 20 years  it was always mixed into something else when I did. I'm not sure what a Rum bitter flavour tastes like as there was lots of things in it that I didn't agree with taste wise when I did have a sip straight from the bottle :lol: 

As you say in SE Qld, your temperatures in the cupboard is not controlled so you may have gotten some fusel bite added at the end. Its hard to describe in words I know so without being able to taste first hand we just rely on general words like bitter 

Sounds like getting an old fridge free from the paper or work mates and wiring up a TempMate temperature controller and plugging the fridge power cord into it will take anyone in SE Qld to a massive increase in quality of brewing anything be it beer or mead as you can brew at the same temperatures that someone in say Melbourne could and still enjoy a sub-tropical weather life.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

shonks69 said:


> I will keep you posted on the Chilli recipe
> 
> Cheers
> Shonks :icon_cheers:



Cheers for that, with all things chillies in recipes you are after the flavour the particular variety of chilli can impart and not after any heat that they could add. A gentle warming is usually plenty enough.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## shonks69

Hi Pete

I have just realised raisins and sultanas are diffrent, I used 25 sultanas in the recipe. Should I add 12 raisins to the recipe?

The mead is 3 days into the fermentation, about a 5-10mm layer of foam on the surface of the brew but no airlock activity. is this normal?

Cheers
Shonks :icon_cheers:


----------



## lokgnar

thanks pete

i am at the moment keepin an eye out for a fridge so i can have control on the temps. I usally dont drink rum straight from the bottle not 2 well in the night when i have run out of coke and my taste buds have died for the night to notice how bad rum is straight . i have a feelin it maybe just the oranges could have been a bit sour from not enough water etc. because the taste is not over powering that i can not enjoy it that and the last few weeks i have been buying my mead so am more then likely used to that taste, were ours are made from oranges an honey. Well im though half a 700ml bottle at the moment and i dont mind the taste it is growing on me i could be just being a baby and should man up. thanks again for your input and once i find that fridge and cimate controll i shall be makin a new batch ill kepp you all posted.

thanks again
Shawn


----------



## shonks69

Hi All

6 days into fermentation still no airlock activity & minimal amount of foam in surface of brew. There are a small amount miniature bubbles rising to surface in different areas of the brew.
Should I be worried about this or is this normal as I am used to a vigorous fermentation when brewing beers?

Cheers
Shonks :unsure:


----------



## pdilley

Nothing to worry about mate. It is nutritionally devoid compared to beer wort. You will get vigorous fermentation and high krausen when you start to do more advanced Meads where you add nutritrients (SNA) to make it resemble beer wort to the yeast.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## shonks69

Cheers Pete :icon_cheers:


----------



## BjornJ

I put one of these in the cupboard in a 5 litre water jug a couple of months ago.

Had another look yesterday, it is clear and the fruit has fallen to the bottom.
The exception are the raisins who have blown out to be greenish colored balloons, floating on the top with a little bit of foam.
Everything else is covered in a thick layer of ...silt..? on the bottom.

Chucked it in the fridge last night, will try to get it bottled over the next couple of days.
Didn't smell all that nice, to be honest but will not judge before having a proper taste!

As there is no carbonation happening during bottling, I assume the finished product will taste like the sip I will have during bottling?

Is there any maturation involved here?

thanks again BrewerPeter for nurturing yet another novice mead brewer through the first try  

thanks
Bjorn


----------



## pdilley

Bjorn,

Actually it should smell nice. I use my nose as a guide so a non nice smell is an indicator. Also sun dried raisins are those little black shrivelled fruit without sulphur or any colour preservatives. When they are spent they should be swollen so that is fine.

With JAO the smell should be sweet and alluring hinting of oranges and spices to entice the drinker to have a sip where the flavour come in and just amplify the initial hints of flavoirs from the smelling ten fold and just bring on a nice mead smile.

Bad smelling just is not something I would associate with a successful JAO.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## BjornJ

Brewer Pete said:


> Bjorn,
> 
> Actually it should smell nice. I use my nose as a guide so a non nice smell is an indicator. Also sun dried raisins are those little black shrivelled fruit without sulphur or any colour preservatives. When they are spent they should be swollen so that is fine.
> 
> With JAO the smell should be sweet and alluring hinting of oranges and spices to entice the drinker to have a sip where the flavour come in and just amplify the initial hints of flavoirs from the smelling ten fold and just bring on a nice mead smile.
> 
> Bad smelling just is not something I would associate with a successful JAO.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete



Brewer Pete,
this is my first ever try at mead, so not sure about how this smells and tastes compared to what it should taste and smell, sorry  

I ended up with 8 x 330 ml glass bottles plus half a bottle I had a taste from.
Then put it back in the fridge for a couple of hours and tried it again now.
Still that strong, warm ..fortified wine (?) taste.
A clear hint of oranges and honey.

No idea what mead is supposed to smell, this smells like a sour(?) honey wine or something similar.

Then again I don't like any wine, found them sour so mead might not be my strongpoint!

Was fun making it though, will keep them in the cupboard and bring out when the discussion somehow end up on mead


----------



## barls

bring a bottle along to the next isb meeting for tasting bjorn and ill swap you a bottle of one of my meads a replacement.


----------



## BjornJ

barls said:


> bring a bottle along to the next isb meeting for tasting bjorn and ill swap you a bottle of one of my meads a replacement.




great, I'll take you up on that one!

Bjorn


----------



## barls

not a problem, which one do you want?
a plain mead
rasperry cyser (honey apple wine)
blackberry cyser
blueberry mead


----------



## BjornJ

plain mead, please.
To see how it is supposed to taste, and if I like it then  

Any ISB meetings before christmas?

Thanks
Bjorn


----------



## barls

not that i know of at this stage but should be one in jan??


----------



## Synthetase

Hey Brewer Pete, I found this thread the other week and thought JAO looks like a tasty recipe so I put one down. It smells great and my only regret is that I didn't find it a few months ago so I'd have some ready for new years!





The one on the right is a blueberry/apple melomel and the one behind that is nectarine.


----------



## Verbyla

Synthetase said:


> Hey Brewer Pete, I found this thread the other week and thought JAO looks like a tasty recipe so I put one down. It smells great and my only regret is that I didn't find it a few months ago so I'd have some ready for new years!
> 
> View attachment 33913
> 
> 
> The one on the right is a blueberry/apple melomel and the one behind that is nectarine.



What were the recipies that you used?


----------



## pdilley

Synthetase said:


> Hey Brewer Pete, I found this thread the other week and thought JAO looks like a tasty recipe so I put one down. It smells great and my only regret is that I didn't find it a few months ago so I'd have some ready for new years!




All good Meads come to those who wait 

Nectarine is hidden deep in the shadows but would be interested in sharing recipes in the forum. The more Mead the merrier I say!


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## JonnyAnchovy

Not a JAO, but I just bottled 2 x 5L batches of my very high gravity sweet mead. Both batches were started in November 08, both with OGs of around 1.220, one fermented with wyeast sweet mead yeast, the other with champagne yeast. 

I've totally neglected these two batches for ages, and have left them on rapidly autolysising yeast for literally years, but I'm still fairly happy with the results. The batch using the wyeast is in particular very nice, but I definitely can detect a background band-aid/rubberband undertone, due probably to the autolysis, or to the massive stress the yeast must have been under when trying to ferment such massively high gravity mead.

I'll stash these away for a few years, and see how they continue to develop.....

Anyone else attempted a mead like this? With more honey than water? results?


----------



## pdilley

JonnyAnchovy said:


> Anyone else attempted a mead like this? With more honey than water? results?



I've not done this myself yet. Its more reminiscent to me of the high amounts used in Polish recipes for very long ageing. Sounds a bit of a shame you didn't get it racked off the lees before some autolytic flavours were introduced but on the flip side you will get to share how those flavours progress with ageing with everyone.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## JonnyAnchovy

Brewer Pete said:


> I've not done this myself yet. Its more reminiscent to me of the high amounts used in Polish recipes for very long ageing. Sounds a bit of a shame you didn't get it racked off the lees before some autolytic flavours were introduced but on the flip side you will get to share how those flavours progress with ageing with everyone.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete



I've got another 5L of a very similar recipe which I did rack - we'll see how that goes. Will bottle in about a year I think, giving it 2.5 years of bulk age.


----------



## pdilley

Keep note of the ratios of honey to water used. With the yeast you used you can get a good ballpark of the maximum capable ABV before it gave up the ghost. Then take the residual amount and if too sweet, water it down to a drinkable ratio and bottle. Alternatively you can determine on paper if its sweetness level once brought under control leaves you with too little ABV and try for a secondary fermentation re-pitch but you will need to be careful so you can calculate the ABV of the 2nd yeast and then determine how much watering down to leave enough sugars for the yeast to consume before giving up while at the same time leaving enough for your desired sweetness. Or save it for on top of ice cream! 


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## shonks69

Hi Pete

I reckon the chilli mead recipe i put down on the 12/11/2009 is ready  
All the fruit has dropped (including chillies) except for the sultanas and has cleared to a deep transparent hazel colour. I have finished the mead in my brew fridge @ approx 1 deg for the last week and I now reckon I'm ready to bottle.

I have never experienced mead before and have a couple of questions,


Do you carbonate when bottling or just bottle and cap?
Do you drink the mead cold or drink it at room temperature?
Can I drink it strait away or do I have to age it, if so how long?

I am planning to use 375ml Bundaberg ginger beer bottles for bottling.

Any help would be much appreciated

Cheers
Shonks


----------



## pdilley

Do you carbonate when bottling or just bottle and cap?

bottle and cap

the choice is yours to carbonate or leave still but traditionally this is still


Do you drink the mead cold or drink it at room temperature?

personal preference is room temperature

people drink them chilled, room temperature, or heated up depending on the volatiles in them you want to emphasise or demphasise them


Can I drink it strait away or do I have to age it, if so how long?

this style can be drunk right away but time mellows it out with ageing

the volatiles decrease with age so you need to find a balance point between level of mellowness and diminishing flavours of your additions




Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## shonks69

Thanks mate

I'll give you an update post tasting

Cheers
Shonks


----------



## DanRayner

Alright. I may not have read any ofthis post. I may be typing clunkily on a brand new iPhone. And I may be wearing an Arrogant Bastard teeshirt. Buti'm sitting in the harmonie German club at the end of a Canberra brewer's club meeting after drinking this amazing drink! It is like Christmas cake in a bottle - so well balanced, cinnamon, orange, cloves, raisins and a hint of alc - just like after lighting up the rum on a Christmas cake but it's 11.5%!

Will post more tomorrow

dan


----------



## brettprevans

Compeyely OT but dan r u the same same dan Rayner who won an award for his k&k RIS? If so, WTF only 18 posts? U have heaps to contribute....

Oh and back on topic.... What's the drink and it's receipe?!


----------



## DanRayner

citymorgue2 said:


> Compeyely OT but dan r u the same same dan Rayner who won an award for his k&k RIS? If so, WTF only 18 posts? U have heaps to contribute....
> 
> Oh and back on topic.... What's the drink and it's receipe?!



heya:

only 18 posts (19 now) on this forum...

but...






I haven't been quiet on other forums:






having done alright in two years of the AABC I'm still happy to share the love though  and I judge at any comp I can get to


----------



## DanRayner

PS - I'm still reeling over this JAO

I've never tasted anything like it (beer/wine/cider/anything) 

amazing


----------



## Swinging Beef

I got to taste a batch of this brewed by forum member, Sammus, just the other night.
Never have I been so keen to brew mead before.
This recipie, is really great!
Now I need a 5 litre fermenter.


----------



## gareth

I have to agree, this recipe is awesome...
Going to make it just as soon as I can source some honey!

Thanks for the sample last night BrewerPete


----------



## brettprevans

if i can get down to the shops to get a few more cinamon sticks tonight, 25L of JOA is being put into a fermentor tongiht.

plan is to keg 19L (sparkling mead) and have some in bottles as still mead. will see if i chnage my mind and break it up into some more sample bottles and do some other expiermients to it.

my plum melomel with old ale yeast will be going down next weekend.

edit: oh and dont worry BP, the JAO is going down with bread yeast. but i might be tempted to throw some nutrient in. im not sure if i can help myself!


----------



## pdilley

Glad you guys are enjoying it. I am sure the more this is made the more it will start to spread like a bush fire through the brewing clubs as it really is just that good!


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## BrenMcgee

After reading this thread start to finish, twice now, I am really keen to try this!! Really keen. I understand a bit more about it now. I have a question about this FridgeMate thing you speak of. What is involved in setting one of these up? I live in Toowoomba and at the moment the temperature will be all over the shop. Currently it is rainy, and to be honest probably perfect temperature for this JAO, but it won't stay like that for the next few months.


----------



## Martin

I was lucky enough to taste some of Pete's JAO the other night - WOW that stuff is amazing. Seriously good! I will be making some for sure.


----------



## watchUburn

Don't let the mead ferment out too hot. You wont like the resulting product.


----------



## pdilley

Bren,

I use TempMate as it gives you both cold control and hot control at the same time. FridgeMate will also work but you manually switch it to either hot control or cold control and don't get both at the same time.

They are electronic switches essentially and they switch AC electricity on or off to any device plugged into them. To set them up you need some skills or have a sparky take the unit and wire it up into a nice box for you.

Myself I got my small box from Bunnings. Two AC power cords cut in half gave me the one male plug and two female plugs I needed. One female is wired to the heat switch (relay) and the other to the cold one.

I take a fridge or chest freezer and plug it into the cold female plug instead of the wall socket. I plug the TempMate into the wall socket and put them TempMate thermal sensor inside the fridge. When it gets too bot in the fridge the cold relay switches AC electricity to the fridge and it turns on cooling down the contents. Once the TempMate detects the temperature you set it with has been reached the cold relay turns off AC electricity to the fridge. This repeats continuosly until your fermentation is done.

If you don't have a temperature controlling device you can not brew all-year round. You have to do what I did initially and wait for winter to approach and when temperatures are 20C and not getting any higher start brewing and hope for the best.

With temperature control you can brew in winter by plugging something into the heat plug on the tempmate like a heat belt or heat lamp or fish tank heater, etc. Now you can always brew at optimum temperatures every day of the year.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## gareth

Ok, put my first mead down, followed the recipe to the tee.
Just waiting for the liquid to drop down to 20 in my ferm fridge.
Used iron bark honey and a Valencia orange.

Mmm... Can't wait for the final product!


----------



## brettprevans

Will post pics of my 25L JAO on Monday. 
Few slight mederations. Ran out of raisins at 107 (yes I decided to count them). Sultanas made up the rest. Not enough cinamon so u threw 1 star anise in and a tiny bit a ground cinamon I had.
80% orange blossum 20% iron bark. 

Smells nom nom nom


----------



## brettprevans

citymorgue2 said:


> Will post pics of my 25L JAO on Monday.
> Few slight mederations. Ran out of raisins at 107 (yes I decided to count them). Sultanas made up the rest. Not enough cinamon so u threw 1 star anise in and a tiny bit a ground cinamon I had.
> 80% orange blossum 20% iron bark.
> 
> Smells nom nom nom


I looked at the pics i took whilst making this and they were crap, so no pics. smelt awsome this morning.
my 2 girls loved watching me make this. they kept sticking there fingers in the honey that was beoing poured into the fermentor (little honey fiends). they kept asking 'are you making honey for the girls'. ummm no darlings this is for mummy and daddy.

This is seriously sooooo easy to make, even at 25L and whilst kind of supervising 2 young kids this is easy to make. So anyone considering making this should. its easier than making a K&K. 


I am running behind on putting down my plumb melomel though.


----------



## antihuman

first post; but thought I would let you know I have decided to give this a shot also with one minor change. I will post some pictures once everything settles and give my twenty cents worth on the taste. I used my grandfathers honey which is a basic 'Yellow Box' honey which is basically a Eucalyptus based honey from a single breed of eucalyptus.


----------



## pdilley

I've never had luck with any admin-type user editing the front post to clear up any confusing instruction steps or other clean up.

Therefore I have created a PDF document from my very own personal Brewing Wiki and uploading it in this post.

Please refer to this PDF for the latest revision (currently revision number 15) and make sure to help any new JAO brewers out but linking back to it when it gets buried under any new posts.

View attachment JAORecipe_v15.pdf


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## northwest9

i put down my first of these last night. unfortunately i didnt get to the canberra brewers night to taste your samples pete, i was out of town. but with dan and gareth both giving it the thumbs up, and me having nothing brewing at the moment, i had to get amongst it.

im surprised by the speed at which the yeast gets started compared to a beer yeast.

I am currently without temperature control, i sold my fridgemate, and am awaiting my tempmates, but i kept it in the linen cupboard overnight, and it is sitting at 21.


----------



## pdilley

Not to worry, the weather forecast patterns for the week show 19C to 23C at the end of a 7 day forecast. This is about the time (give a week or two more) that I put down the JAOs that were at the club and fermented at ambient temperatures. If the pattern continues as its forecasted and continues on a downward trend through the weeks then you'll be alright. Might take longer to finish when facing really cold weather.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

citymorgue2 said:


> smells nom nom nom



Just wait until its actively fermenting. Oh the smells that will await you! 


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

antihuman said:


> I used my grandfathers honey which is a basic 'Yellow Box' honey which is basically a Eucalyptus based honey from a single breed of eucalyptus.



Using what you have available is not a problem. JAO has been made with a variety of honeys. I always feel that fresh is best as from a farm or better yet a beekeeper. Once you taste fresh honey stright from a hive without heating or pasteurisation you will understand when I say that all those supermarket honeys are not honey, they bear little resemblance in delicate taste and aromas of the real honey from a hive. This is why I started the build your own beehive post and am keeping bees in my back yard right now.

Its all good with mead 


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## sirotilc

I bottled my first batch of JAO last night - very difficult to not do "one for the bottles, one for me". I've tried a few commercial meads over the years but was never particularly impressed, I ended up having a tiny little glass that wouldn't fit in the bottles I'd sanitised. Absolutely beautiful, there's nothing I can think of quite like it. 

So now I'm going to copy you again Pete and do a big batch of traditional with the plan of splitting it into smaller batches with different 'things' - rose/rose water with vanilla, apple juice, and lavender all come to mind for ideas. Just need to track down some DAP and listen to a few podcasts!


----------



## northwest9

Brewer Pete said:


> Using what you have available is not a problem. JAO has been made with a variety of honeys. I always feel that fresh is best as from a farm or better yet a beekeeper. Once you taste fresh honey stright from a hive without heating or pasteurisation you will understand when I say that all those supermarket honeys are not honey, they bear little resemblance in delicate taste and aromas of the real honey from a hive. This is why I started the build your own beehive post and am keeping bees in my back yard right now.
> 
> Its all good with mead
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete



yep, my old mans farm has a bee keeper whose been hanging out there for a while, and always gives dad a big tub of honey for it.

hes got miles too much honey at home, and was certainly a little confused when i asked him if i could take the 3kgs he has.....

i might hit the bee keeper up, raise his "honey rent" to enough for a 23litre batch each year


----------



## northwest9

hey Pete

I have bene keeping my mead in the pantry, wrapped in a blanket to try to keep the temp stable, both my temp controlled fridges are full, so i have had no other option.

i had a look this morning, and the temp was down to 14.

i am going to slowly bring the temp back up to around 20. will this have any negative effect ont he mead?


----------



## pdilley

I've kept JAO fermenting at abient temperatures over winter before. It just adds 2-3 months to the fermenting time. So if you can wait and are not bothered keep it as is. If you bring it up to 20 no harm either.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## murrayr

just bought the orange blossom i'll be using for my first mead!
it'll be a 10 litre batch and modelled very closely on the JAO recipe.
has anyone had any luck making mead with WLP760 or WLP755?
anywho, wish me luck. Murray


----------



## gareth

My JAO has been fermenting in my temp controlled fermenter since the 7th March.
It has recently completely cleared up (Looks great!  ) but the fruit is all still at the top, with a distinct yeast layer at the bottom.

Has fermentation completed or is it still going?


----------



## pdilley

Its looking good gareth. You are pretty much near the end. It won't hurt to leave it for a few weeks if you want to see fruit drop. JAO will improve with a month or two of conditioning before drinking from the bottle but not much improvement will be seen past 5 to 6 months ageing. So you can do a gravity check if you want to be sure and then bottle it as a still Mead and let it age at any time thats convenient for you.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

murrayr said:


> has anyone had any luck making mead with WLP760 or WLP755?
> anywho, wish me luck. Murray



Only used Montrachet in an Apfelwein

I wouldn't use either of those in a JAO recipe as its formulated on here though. They'll both push it drier than its intended target finish point.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## gareth

Brewer Pete said:


> Its looking good gareth. You are pretty much near the end. It won't hurt to leave it for a few weeks if you want to see fruit drop. JAO will improve with a month or two of conditioning before drinking from the bottle but not much improvement will be seen past 5 to 6 months ageing. So you can do a gravity check if you want to be sure and then bottle it as a still Mead and let it age at any time thats convenient for you.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete



Thanks Brewer Pete,

Does oxidation affect mead? Just thinking about how to syphon the mead out of the demijohn.
Could I syphon it all out to one container then pour it into my separate bottles?

Cheers
Gareth


----------



## pdilley

Yes oxidation will be an issue with Mead in the same way it is with Wine. Doing a syphon into bottles from the JAO fermenter is not a big issue. But when consuming Mead the repeated opening and closing of a bottle will introduce more oxygen and eventually it will go off like Wine does so I like to bottle small and use it in one go or the day after opening. Now that I have a CO2 tank handy I don't worry anymore as I can give a squirt of CO2 into the bottle to increase time before it will oxidise during the consumption period.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## biggo

The JOA mead is a great first recipe.
This is my JOAM after 2 months and some clearing


----------



## 501

Thanks for this thread ^_^ 

Just thought I'd better sign the register. 

I am just drinking my first JAOM and am hooked. 

Cheers


----------



## brettprevans

since the thread has popped up again i'll report back on my 25L of JAO

about 2.5 months in primary
still about 70% fruit floating on top I recon
so i recon the bread yeast isnt working hard enough. time to throw some more yeast at it i think.

edit: actually i should taker another SG reading. it was still high about a 2-3 weeks ago. from memory it was arounf 1060


----------



## pdilley

citymorgue2,

Do you have your starting gravity handy?

1060 is a high finish but JAO is normally a high finish in the 36-42 point ranges usually so you are not far off. Just would like to shed 20 more points. If you have been tracking the ferment and hit a brick wall with the yeast check the pH as with moovets mead if your yeast is performing fine but all of a sudden hits a wall before normal tolerance levels it's usually a dip below 3.5, and a buffer that precipitates out readily is called for. You can pitch more yeast or even build up a nice starter but if it hits low pH it will pfaff out on you the same.

If you know volumetric additions you can pull off a sample amount and add some water to bring it down in gravity and have a taste test. If too much water is required you'll end up diluting flavour as well so better to see what state your ferment is in and see if you can adjust it to make it pull down on it's own.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

biggo said:


> The JOA mead is a great first recipe.
> This is my JOAM after 2 months and some clearing




Looking very clear and nice there.

I'm seeing some full fermenters  I think the top up with water section of the instructions is to blame  as 3.89 litres is below a full fermenter and the top up with water is standard for any krausen that may be so large it causes losses in the fermenter. With JAO it's not a worry nor top ups needed but with nutrient addition meads its so active you can get very exciting foaming action during stirring.

You'll dilute some flavour/sweetness and alcohol by going over 3.89 liters but it should still be a good first go.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

501 said:


> Thanks for this thread ^_^
> 
> Just thought I'd better sign the register.
> 
> I am just drinking my first JAOM and am hooked.
> 
> Cheers




It's a great drink in brewing to get hooked on!

Enjoy your JAO and be sure to make lots more because it won't last long!

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## brettprevans

BP - OG was the same as ur 25L batch (actually a little more as I used about 0.5L more honey). I'll take an sg and c how we go. No ph capability as yet.


----------



## gareth

Hey Brewer Pete,

Been about 2.5 months and the fruit its still at the top but the mead is crystral clear, is it time to bottle?
What should the FG be? 

Cheers
Gareth


----------



## pdilley

As above, high 30's to low 40's for finish gravity for JAO.

CM2, the OG should be around 1.126 and 12% should pull it down to just under 17 1/2 on Measured Brixor about 1.037 or so. 1060 will give you just above 20 1/2 Measured Brix and only 8.8% alcohol so you have a 3% gap in your ABV. Stopping there means something such as going too acidic in the must halted yeast metabolism early.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## Maeldric

Made this mead last year ready for christmas. Was freakin nice but havent made it again. Well today that changes. Heading to coles right now to get some ingredients for this wonderful mead. Gonna make a couple of batches of it this time so it lasts a little longer hehe.


----------



## pdilley

Maeldric said:


> Made this mead last year ready for christmas. Was freakin nice but havent made it again. Well today that changes. Heading to coles right now to get some ingredients for this wonderful mead. Gonna make a couple of batches of it this time so it lasts a little longer hehe.



Bloody good drink that JAO isn't it!

Best advice as you are saying is make more as it just will not last.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## brettprevans

Brewer Pete said:


> As above, high 30's to low 40's for finish gravity for JAO.
> 
> CM2, the OG should be around 1.126 and 12% should pull it down to just under 17 1/2 on Measured Brixor about 1.037 or so. 1060 will give you just above 20 1/2 Measured Brix and only 8.8% alcohol so you have a 3% gap in your ABV. Stopping there means something such as going too acidic in the must halted yeast metabolism early.
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete


hmmm some ph strips may be needed. or ill just decide that its too acid and throw something in there to make it a bit more alkaline. any ideas? I would normally say some 5.2stabiliser. although cant say ive ever read it being used during fermentation. 

Ill dig out the meadmakers book tonight and have a squiz.


----------



## pdilley

Calcium carbonate is normally recommended because it will precipitate out of solution easily. 1/2 to 1 tsp at a time for small batches, but your large batch will require considerably larger additions to move the pH.

You really want a pH closer to about 4 with 4.7 as a safe upper end. Some people will let it go as low as 3.7 and still feel comfortable, others have 3.8 as their lower limit. Honeys can be 3.9 to start with and yeast metabolism drives it all acid so its no wonder fermentations are slow and get stuck (yeast stop working).

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## brettprevans

Going to chuck in 3 tablespoons, stir in. Then pitch some more yeast in a couple of days.


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## pdilley

As an aside, Ive experimented with bicarb soda (pH = 9) in ciders before. Apple juice finishes acidic and tart/sour and bicarb reacts knocking out the acidity. Ive yet to work out amounts but my test ended up stripping out too much acid which softened the taste too much and it lost that little bit of acid crispness a cider needs. The other cons are any flocculate stirs up easily when disturbed so a few careful rackings to get off it. Suspended bicarb being a salt imparts that bicarby salt like taste, mild compared to table salt but still disagreable in high amounts in solution.

Not using pH strips or a pH meter while adjusting is flying blind as youll not know where you are or if you've only moved the pH a tenth of a point or a full point. Remember pH is a logrithmic scale so pH of 4 is ten times more acidic then 5 and a pH of 3 is ten times more acid then 4 or 100 times more acid than 5. The lower you are the more buffer is needed to pull up the pH value.

I dont think the 5.2 company lists whats really in it which makes the market unable to rationaly decide if its fit for a purpose such as this.

If you have you abv reading and you arenclosr to the attenutive upper end then make sure you make a standard gravity starter of 1/2 cup capacity with a small amount of nutrient and after the new yeast starts subsiding after full krausen
add 1/2 cup of the fermented mead and small amount of nutrient and wait for krausen to reappear and subside. Repeat at least two additional times then pitch. This way you've slowly aclimated the new yeast to the higher abv and tougher environment in your ferment before pitching.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## BjornJ

I gave a bottle of my JAO mead to barls, who brought it the ISB big brew day the other weekend.

He shared it out and I got some good feedback from it, was fun trying to make mead  

Bjorn


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## brettprevans

as usual your right BP. I really need to get some pH strips and do it properly.


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## evilNat

Virgin brewer here who has been dying to make mead since living on a divine Swedish brew at a 4 day heavy metal festival in 2002 :icon_chickcheers: 

All the brewing terminology of recipes I've found on the internet have put me off, but this recipe here looks really easy.

My father always planned to make me mead but he was under the impression you had to use raw/unprocessed honey. Looks like this recipe uses commercial honey. Great.

Some questions regarding the recipe and outcome:


Does the recipe work without the fruit and spices?
Is this a light brew or more the sweetness and heaviness of a liquer?
If this recipe is heavier than I like, how can I 'lighten' the brew?

I've been able to buy a few commercial meads and the German 'Bren Met' has been the closest in flavour (and only decent mead) to what I drank and would ultimately like to be able to make. 

The mead I drank was sweet and light, but still potent, without any obvious other flavours and not as syrupy as Bren Met. It was served coldish (for what Europeans consider a cold drink  ) and was easy to drink all day (much like a light wine is-that's the best way I can describe it).
Any advice would be gladly appreciated! 
Skl! Kippis! Prost!


----------



## pdilley

God dag og velkommen. Jeg snakke flere norsk enn svenske.

svaret din sprsml

1) The recipe is balanced for fruit and spices. Without them other flavours dominate and you get a different result.

2) This is more on the liqueur side of the heaviness scale

3) To lighten meads, you brew with more alcohol (and longer ageing) by using yeast strains that consume more of the sugars or you add less honey to start with less sugars and use the same yeast. Both methods change the balance of flavours and therefore the final mead. More alcohol and higher tolerance yeast keeps more honey to water ratio. Less honey means more water and everything taste and aroma wise also gets watered down proportionally.

It is always recommended to make at least one batch of mead exactly as the recipe states so you have full knowledge of the full flavour and aroma so that your next batches where you change the recipe you can judge if the changes are working for you or not.


skl,
Brewer Pete


----------



## evilNat

Takk, Brewer Pete!
Actually I speak neither language.

Thanks for those tips, I will definitely try the pure recipe before I start experimenting.

I've mentioned this site and your recipe to a brewing enthusiast Swedish friend as well - he's won a Swedish brewing competition recently - he's familiar with the mead from the festival and may be able to help me eventually refine a recipe for it. Will keep you posted.


----------



## Rodolphe01

I want to put this recipe down for Christmas and figure now is a good time to get it started giving it plenty of time to age.

My only concern is the risk of infection. No one has really mentioned it in the thread, but I guess I am a paranoid beer brewer where everything needs to be boiled. My concern is becasue nothing is boiled (I can handle honey not being boiled), but the spices etc just getting chucked in.

It is clearly not an issue, as no one has been reporting back about any issues.

Cheers.

Edit: 1 more thing, since the high gravity is so brutal on yeast, is there any benefit in pitching 2tsp rather than 1? I buy my bread yeast in a big canister (280g, Lowan brand if it matters) and it costs about $3 for the whole thing, so it isn't really a financial burden bunging some extra in 

Edit 2: This is my 5 litre demijohn... Well 4.5 litre scotch bottle. I acquired it from my brother full of bad bad bad homebrew scotch, he acquired it off someone else, full of the same bad bad bad scotch, and so on  I used the scotch as a sanitiser for a while, until it grew a white film and infected 2 batches of my beer! How does that even happen?!? Needless to say it is getting a bleach + boiling water treatment.


----------



## evilNat

I'm all fired up to go, with 2 other non-cooking recipes, and wouldn't you know it my local brewing shop didn't have any bungs! GRRR! Now I have to wait for the ones I bought online to arrive in the post <_<


----------



## Rodolphe01

Another question... The honey I get from the markets, although delicious, sometimes has a subtle waxy taste (if that makes sense) - would this be problematic for mead?


----------



## pdilley

Rudi: High Osmotic Pressure / High Sugar Content in the beginning and a High Alcohol Content in the end all done in a cleaned and sanitised vessel with a vapour lock device preventing outside air getting in. It's almost a non issue and infections are minimal.

If your yeast is fresh it won't do any better with more yeast pitched. If your yeast is old you may want to pitch more.

Finally, alcohol is fermented by acetic acid bacteria in the air. Usually starts of whitey/translucent whitish on the top and ends with translucent white and brownish floating glob on top with tendrils or sheets of goo extending down into the liquid. Airborne exposure and oxidation as no vapour lock device protecting the scotch 

Market honey is usually pasteurised or heated to assist blending (non pure honeys). Commercial extraction melts and slices wax caps off, etc. Thats why my building bee hive post I use natural method and just crush the combs in BIAB bag type material and hang it in a jar to drip inside. Only a few days and 95% of the honey is filtered clean, pure and full of original delicate taste and aroma compounds. But your JAO will be fine with store bought honey for your first go. Don't stress it as much until you make a few and want to see what difference better quality honey does.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

evilNat said:


> I'm all fired up to go, with 2 other non-cooking recipes, and wouldn't you know it my local brewing shop didn't have any bungs! GRRR! Now I have to wait for the ones I bought online to arrive in the post <_<



Same here when I started. I made sure to stock up on all sorts and sizes to go in thin necked bottles to every demijohn I use.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## evilNat

A couple of recipes I've read have even suggested using a balloon if no airlock is available. The recipe for the samagonka just called for a plastic bag kept in place with an elastic (but this recipe does come from a remote village in Russia).

One of my fellow festival goers found the website of people who make the mead for the festival. No recipes, and it's in German, but still interesting to see how they make commercial quantities.

If anyone's interested, here's the site
http://www.honig-met-striewski.de/www.honi.../startseite.htm

The stuff I';m obsessed about is the Wacken met. They only started bottling the Wacken Met and Wacken Blut last year. At the festival they just serve it from the kegs and if you want the Blut one, they just add the fresh cherry juice (with some pulp) from a separate container.


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## pdilley

Fiery Dragon, Witches' Elixir, Elf Magic, Prince of Darkness? They sure have some crazy names for Mead those Germans! 

Wacken is just sack mead, no spices, just honey, water, yeast. Should be very easy to replicate. You just need to get your ratios right to dial in what you want in the finished product. Most of the Meads' abv ratios are screaming bread yeast or ale yeasts. If its watered down then its a higher abv wine yeast with water added to dilute at bottling.

So those are your variables to play with.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## Rodolphe01

The yeast is fresh as it gets when dry, unopened canister bought a week ago with about a year on the expiry.

I'll give the honey from the markets a go, usually tastes much nicer than supermarket honey.

Also, acetobacter in scotch?!? I thought it'd be too high in alcohol to get a foothold.


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## pdilley

Acetobacter eats alcohol and ferments it into acetic acid.


----------



## Yeastie Beastie

Would great head space have a large impact?
Never made mead but got all the ingredients today for this tasty sounding one.

I have a 2 x HDPE 4 litres but nothing for 5 litre. Split it into 2 parts or use an HDPE 10 litre.

YB


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## pdilley

I have a pre-programmed head space percentage that includes extra room for Meads that are made with Standard Nutrient Additions, forced oxygen mixing with drills and paddles, etc. You can get by with JAO with less head space. The volume in total was less than 4 litres so a 4 litre will do fine. If you are going to make two batches exactly the same, by all means go with the HDPE 10 litre if you have one. If you want to experiment with say amount of cloves, then you will need two fermentation containers. 

With smaller batches keep an eye on total volume level once water is added more so than larger batches as a mistake at small volumes has potentials to effect greatly the outcome.




Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## evilNat

hey Brewer Pete
What's the average alcohol percentage you get with this JOA recipe? 

I haven't got my hands on a hydrometer yet. Is there a method I can use to test for alcohol content at maturation only? (my frustrating web searches keep coming up with the hydrometer before and after test).

I'm waiting for my book to arrive so I can learn all about brewing properly and hopefully won't be hassling you with these beginner questions anymore.

On another note, I tried a recipe which only uses 'airbourne' yeast and that's fermenting quite well now. I'm only doing a 1 litre batch of that.


----------



## pdilley

12% alcohol

The hydrometer (large sample size, no correction tables, measure at end ok), and the refractometer (tiny sample size, uses correction tables after fermentation is happening and no correction tables before fermentation, measure at end ok only if have the original gravity at the start) are the tools.

Wild yeast is fine if you have a recipe calling for it and not a whole lot of money invested in a large batch.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## felten

I put one of these down on Monday, I was a bit concerned about my yeast as its one of those large Lowan cans, best before oct 2009, sitting at the back of the fridge because I hardly ever use it. But within 4 hours of pitching the airlock was going crazy. 

Used local honey, my dad knows a bloke, its definitely not single origin but tastes better than the supermarket stuff. I tried some leatherwood honeycomb the other day and man it blows what I'm using out of the water the smell and taste are amazing, I'll have to source a few kgs and make another batch


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## pdilley

Not to worry, my yeast was out of date, brought up from the move from Melbourne and it worked fine as well.

Leatherwood (Eucryphia lucida) is nice, isn't it 

I was thinking of getting some for the new place as it is from temperate climate. Bees work themselves to death on Leatherwood as they are attracted to it that much.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## Creedy

Hi guys, I was fascinated with this recipe so thought I'd give it a try.

I went out to purchase a demijohn from (if you're in Adelaide) Gaganis brothers, a great shop by the way with lots of stuff for wine making and heaps of hard to get ethnic food supplies and herbs and spices in bulk, all at good prices.
Couldn't get a 5 litre , but found they had good stocks of the 10 litre versions in those horrible made of plastic fake cane baskets, which I immediately tossed as the bottle looks great by itself. Also picked up a bung while I was there.
And of course made up a double batch of JAO with some lovely lavender honey from a Apiarists supply shop on Prospect road.

Started fermenting on 27th May, the weather was pretty cold and because SWMBO liked the look of the demijohn I was able to keep it inside.
Being so cold I put it on a heater pad and watched the fun in a bottle. Fermentation went mad for about 3 days, it had a good 25mm of krausen. After 5 days it started to slow a little and after 7 days I took it off the heater pad.
I let it just slowly "bloop ............................ bloop" away for about 6 weeks, until a particularly cold day and I thought "lets put the heater pad back on", fermentation picked up quite a bit, not mad but "blooping" away quite nicely for after so many weeks.
Switched off the pad overnight and in the morning the fruit had all dropped and the mead was showing the first signs of clearing.

I left it go until today (just over 7 weeks) and it was lovely and clear.
I gave some thought to how to get it out and dug out a "jiggle siphon" and a bottling wand, which I believe was suggested by some other forum member who is much wiser and more experienced than me (as you shall see shortly).
Grabbed enough "pick axe" long necks to more than cover my volume needs, cleaned and sterilised every thing in sight, even bought another portable light into the room to make it easier to work.

And so begins the trials and tribulations of Creedy, which nearly ended in divorce from SWMBO and included large amounts of mess over a significant portion of the room.

First trouble was the silicone hose I'd bought, it was still coiled, attempted to straighten it a little with hot water, largely unsuccessfully.

Second trouble was I thought I'd better check out the "jiggle siphon" and used it to suck up some of the sterilising fluid from the bucket, this was my first warning, little alarm bells were ringing in my head as I realised how much I had to disturb the water to make the "jiggle siphon" work. But I thought "Nah, it'll be all right, how else can I do it anyway?".

Next mistake was asking SWMBO to help with the siphoning effort, explained (I thought clearly) that I'd start the siphon, then She should keep the tube in the mead but not let it touch the bottom and not let it suck up the yeast, enter the extra lighting to make this easy (or so I thought).

Then I tried to start the siphon, jiggling immediately disturbed the yeast pack on the bottom which clouded the mead.
This only got worse. But we were committed now so had to continue, (Titanic approaching iceberg, shouts from the lookouts ignored). Much spilling ensued as the damned jiggle siphon refused to work, even though it was worked successfully in the water just previously.

More clouding of mead.

SWMBO pulls out the jiggle siphon and quite rightly (as it turns out) questions it's functionality, then proceeds to poke the marble inside it and (as I yell out a long fading Nooooooooooo) puts the end back into the mead.

I hang my head and shake it slowly while I sigh loudly. I start to talk about sanitation and keeping things clean and get a "But you never said that, if it was important you should have said!".
So I had to "yes dear, your right, I'm wrong, I should have made it clearer". Divorce narrowly averted.

So I rip the jiggle siphon off the end and the bottle filler off the other, struggle with the demented python of a silicone hose and after cleaning and sterilising (as best I can) my hands, try to create a siphon by plunging the tube and timing the thumb release on the other end. Much better than the stupid jiggle siphon, spilling and splashing a little less now.

However my efforts to create a siphon resulted in vibrating a jar lemongrass oil off the table which the mead is on and onto the floor.
As my luck would have it the lid was off and it rolled half was across the dining room floor, leaving a considerable trail of oil behind it. 

I ask SWMBO to get the mop, strangely I get a "but it's a new mop", it crossed my mind to ask what the hell a mop is for if not for cleaning up messes such as this, but with considerable effort I bite my tongue.

The demented python of a silicone tube then struck out at SWMBO as she "forgot" how to use a siphon.
Forgot that the end of the tube had to be below the surface of the mead.
Three times.

The spillage continued, mostly into the deep sided tray or onto the plastic sheet I had the forethought to put down in case of emergency, but I didn't think emergency would happen so soon or in such a major fashion.

So after bottling as much as was decent and not ridiculously cloudy, we ended up with 4 1/2 long necks, from a double batch, a pretty poor yield I'd say, but at least it's bottled.
Dubious sanitation, cloudy, messy, destructive, kids asking "what's happening Dad?", but it's done now.

So at the moment I've tried my first JAO, not too bad, got some hot alcohol taste so I'll probably forego the heated pad in future and let it ferment slower. Also a little bit too much bitterness so I might drop back the 1 1/2 oranges for a double batch, might reduce the cinnamon a bit too, as we had quite long sticks to start with and it's quite prominent but not overwhelming at all, just tuning.


LESSONS LEARNED

1. If I can't do it myself, don't enrolled SWMBO as an assistant, kids maybe, but not SWMBO.
2. burn my existing jiggle siphon head, jump on the ashes, then burn the ashes, then piss on the burnt ashes
3. hang the friggin silicone hose with a weight on the end for at least 3 weeks before using the damned thing so is at least straight (it's in the shed like this now)
4. ask very politely how the hell people have managed to get their JAO out from demijohns without going from "crystal clear" to "Coopers Sparking Ale"

So, thank you those who have read to the end of my little rant and please, ..... pretty please ...... with sugar and a cherry on top...... how does one remove the JAO cleanly from a demijohn?



Cheers,
Creedy


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## jakub76

> And so begins the trials and tribulations of Creedy



Thank you, Creedy. That was easily the best story I've read in ages. I just watched a 2 hour film that didn't engage me nearly as much as your story did.

I've had a JAO slowly fizzing in the laundry for the last month or so and I too was wondering how to cleanly decant to bottles - I was going to use the thumb plug method with a thin tube of silicon I use as a blow-off tube. I figure after thorough sanitation the 12% alcohol should make up for any short comings. 

Thank you again for a valuable and most entertaining post...straight to the f*cking pool room!


----------



## felten

http://beer-brewing.suite101.com/article.c...honing_homebrew for some quickly googled siphoning tips (cept for the jiggle one )

I haven't tried to siphon my 5L of JAO yet and I'm definitely no expert, but for other siphoning needs I normally use a racking cane and the 'fill the tube with sanitiser' method, but it can be extremely frustrating when you **** it up. You have to fill the tube with sanitiser before putting the cane under the water otherwise you bubble air back up it, then drain the sanitiser into an intermediary container. I'm definitely going to purchase a turkey baster, or something similar and use that in the future. You could also try crash chilling the mead before bottling to get the yeast to compact down a little, not sure if that would help.

Great story, it's got me thinking about how to do this without screwing up so badly. 

edit: another one here http://www.breworganic.com/tips/Virtual_class/siphon.htm


----------



## pdilley

I had tears in my eyes reading that. I can relate to a few of those things  

I always find it simple but it must be me. I use a tube, filled with water, pinched at one end. On the floor is a large bowl or measuring pyrex thing. And a large square plastic food container with no lid with cleaned and ready to fill bottles in them.

I fill the tube with water, holding both ends up to make sure all the air gets out.

I then pinch one end to form a vacuum seal. I place the other end in glass demijohn halfway down into the mead.

I aim the pinched off tube somewhat over the large bowl or pyrex container and let the water drain.

As the water drains the mead will fill the tube, sometimes with an air bubble separating the two liquids in the tube.

As soon as mead is coming out I pinch the tube with my hand and move it over a bottle.

During all of this I have one hand holding the tube in the demijohn, usually resting or grabbing the bottle neck and holding the tube in fingers. The other hand is working the end of the siphon tube, moving it and pinching it off as needed.

You can always pinch off if the liquid in the demijohn is getting near the end of the tube and slowly move it down further into the liquid. And then stop pinching it off when ready to keep filling a bottle. There is no rush as rushed work always ends up making more work in the end 

You never stick the tube down into the yeast cake at the bottom of the demijohn and I usually stop a few centimetres above that layer anyway because the liquid movement will start to stir up yeast.


The other rule is I always move the container I will be siphoning from the day before or even a few days before to the location I will siphon. This gives plenty of time for any movement stirred up yeast cake to settle back down.


Looks like someone has made a video already, but does not use the water in tube method I use:


EDIT: Not shown in the video is the siphon tube he is using is capped on the bottom and there is a hold in the side of the tube 1 1/2 cm to 2 cm up from the bottom and thats where the mead enters the tube to get siphoned. Otherwise from the video you would think he has the tube down in the yeast sucking up the yeast cake. I have a similar air-blow siphon start for my large demijohns with stainless steel racking canes with plugged bottoms and hold further up but for the small ones I get by with just a simple water siphon tube.

Heat can create hot sharp fusel alcohol tastes so if you are applying heat with no temperature control on it to keep the temp dialled in low you are tempting fate, you get fast fermentation and clear times but good mead means not rushing it.

JAOs normally come into their prime close to the 6 month mark and go downhill from there as the flavours slowly fade away, so some ageing should help if its too strong on one flavour or another.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## jakub76

> You could also try crash chilling the mead before bottling to get the yeast to compact down


anyone tried chilling it to drop the yeast? That bakers yeast looks pretty fluffy, doesn't look like it would cake well.


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## pdilley

Jakub, you would get better results setting up for racking and letting it sit for a few days and settle before racking as like you say its fluffy.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## evilNat

Thanks for the great read, Creedy and it's even answered a few doubts I had. I'm getting eager for my first batch to be ready so I can taste it and get a BIG batch ready for October.

Regarding the bottling stage...What would be the repercussions of yeast sediment present in the bottles a la Coopers beer?


----------



## pdilley

Same thing as coopers, last bit of the bottle will go cloudy, but it still tastes good to me. If you are not entering a competition or don't mind cloudy in your beer or mead then its not something to stress over. The young life and high alcohol of JAO means by 6 months you'll be able to drink it, even with yeast with no off flavours.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## brettprevans

well i seem to have failed in getting my JAO off and running again. pitched some dissolved CaCO2 left for a week or so, then pitched more yeast and yeast nutrient. swirled it up, gave it some heat etc and nup not firing. ill check the SG again tonight but think ill have to be happy with 8-9%. 

will have to have a taste test also. just on 4 months.


----------



## JonnyAnchovy

Creedy said:


> ...trials and tribulations of Creedy...



God - this has happened to me on many occasions - I turn into a maniacal control freak with a deathly fear of infection and oxidization whenever I'm dealing with cold-side processes. This often results in big SWMBO drama. I think I'd benefit from brewer group therapy to help control my bottling day insanity.


----------



## pdilley

cm2, rack into smaller fermenters if you have them handy. You have enough volume to draw some off for a taste test, as well as rack to smaller fermenters to try some more CaCO2 in one and others to age. At 8-9% you will have a very sweet JAO if your SG was accurately achieved. The taste will tell you how much sweetness remains. JAO should be around a sweet port style but not sickly sweet. If sweet you can trial a higher abv rated yeast to knock of the extra sugars and then if needed learn how to do some back sweetening with honey to dial it in.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## brettprevans

Brewer Pete said:


> cm2, rack into smaller fermenters if you have them handy. You have enough volume to draw some off for a taste test, as well as rack to smaller fermenters to try some more CaCO2 in one and others to age. At 8-9% you will have a very sweet JAO if your SG was accurately achieved. The taste will tell you how much sweetness remains. JAO should be around a sweet port style but not sickly sweet. If sweet you can trial a higher abv rated yeast to knock of the extra sugars and then if needed learn how to do some back sweetening with honey to dial it in.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete


thanks for confirming some of my thoguhts. I was going to suggest that I do that, but honestly cbf unless when i taste a smaple its way too sweet. will wait and see. i could actually use some proper yeast instread of bread yeast. im sure that would do the trick.

will see, will see. cheers mate


----------



## brettprevans

Just tested it and it's gone up 20points! Hahaha. Fkn stupid density seperation. I think it might be a little Too sweet and bloody strong. will give a tester to someone else to try and get a second opinion.


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## raven19

Pitched one of these tonight. Now to play the waiting game.


----------



## Acasta

A long game it will be.


----------



## evilNat

Started a new simple brew on Monday with a recipe called Ragna Rock mead :lol: 

Suppose to be ready in 2 months and 2 weeks.


----------



## shonks69

Brewer Pete said:


> Do you carbonate when bottling or just bottle and cap?
> 
> bottle and cap
> 
> the choice is yours to carbonate or leave still but traditionally this is still
> 
> 
> Do you drink the mead cold or drink it at room temperature?
> 
> personal preference is room temperature
> 
> people drink them chilled, room temperature, or heated up depending on the volatiles in them you want to emphasise or demphasise them
> 
> 
> Can I drink it strait away or do I have to age it, if so how long?
> 
> this style can be drunk right away but time mellows it out with ageing
> 
> the volatiles decrease with age so you need to find a balance point between level of mellowness and diminishing flavours of your additions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete
> 
> Hey Pete
> 
> Chilli Mead tasted great, all who have tried have been impressed.
> A liquor with a little bite, the chilli bite has defiantly increased with age but not impacted the taste.
> A Friend added some to his port barrel and reckons it came out pretty bloody good.
> Cheers mate for the recipe, will defiantly make again.
> 
> Cheers
> John


----------



## LukeCharles

Trent said:


> Not sure where you are located, or the mead line that you are talking about, but yes, you can certainly use a 25L fermenter to make mead in. You may want to make the recipe suit 23L or so (multiply everything by 6) if you have such a big fermenter though, and it will give you time to drink all the mead while the next one is fermenting.
> All the best
> Trent




Can you half fill the fermenter if 23 litres and do a half batch? does this work?


----------



## raven19

LukeCharles said:


> Can you half fill the fermenter if 23 litres and do a half batch? does this work?



Yes, I have 4L batch of mead in a 10L demijohn.

And have recently fermented 10L beer batches in 30L fermentors with no issues. Its just more headspace.


----------



## LukeCharles

raven19 said:


> Yes, I have 4L batch of mead in a 10L demijohn.
> 
> And have recently fermented 10L beer batches in 30L fermentors with no issues. Its just more headspace.




Thanks.


----------



## jakub76

Bottled my JAO last night after 10 weeks in primary. Tasted really nice...I was pleasantly surprised.

I have to say that the bread yeast was a real PITA. It's so bloody fluffy and light, doesn't properly settle so the fermenter really has to stay completely undisturbed for days where ever you're going to bottle. I chose to siphon using a thin tube that I use as a blow-off valve. I used a syringe to start the syphon, worked well though the last bottle ended up quite murky. 

Tasted great, the spices cover any perceptible yeast character except the aroma. The smell is pretty awful, unmistakably bread yeast - reminded me of the crappy wines I used to make out of strawberry jam in my bedroom cupboard when I was in high school. Regardless the taste is really delightful, sweet and very enjoyable. I'll be enjoying it slowly saving some until christmas. Next time I think I'll try US-05 for a more compact yeast cake - and maybe less yeasty aroma.

Any tips on improving the aroma in JAO?

EDIT: OK I've poured myself a glass after a huge 24 hours in bottles and the yeasty aroma is not as bad as when I was bottling. That said there is still a perceptible yeasty aroma...maybe it'll settle with age.


----------



## evilNat

hmm mine's at about 8 weeks now and still no sign of clearing


----------



## jakub76

evilNat said:


> hmm mine's at about 8 weeks now and still no sign of clearing



Yeah, due to the cold I also got a little worried after a month and a half, so I popped the fermenter on top of my water heater to finish off. Checked it a few weeks later and it had cleared.


----------



## shonks69

jakub76 said:


> Yeah, due to the cold I also got a little worried after a month and a half, so I popped the fermenter on top of my water heater to finish off. Checked it a few weeks later and it had cleared.
> 
> I chilled my JAO chilli mead between 0-3 deg when fermentation finished for a good week, Siphoned into bottles. Crystal Clear.
> If I remember I will post a photo when I crack the next bottle (last one).
> 
> Cheers


----------



## evilNat

jakub76 said:


> Yeah, due to the cold I also got a little worried after a month and a half, so I popped the fermenter on top of my water heater to finish off. Checked it a few weeks later and it had cleared.



I was tempted to put it on a heat pad until I read Creedy's comments. I've got a kriek kit (Belgian cherry beer) sitting on my heat pad at the moment and a 20L batch of the Ragnarock mead recipe gurgling away, so I'm not so much in a hurry with the JOA


----------



## mauriceatron

Joe's Ancient Orange and Spice mead! That recipe and text is still going around the traps which is a testament to Joe Mattioli who originally wrote the rant and recipe.

I made it a few years ago not long after the rant first appeared and the only thing I would comment on is the yeast. In the USA, they have that Fleishmanns bread yeast which is a known commodity in the mead & wine world due to known strain and attenuation abilities. That is what Joe originally specified. Here, we don't have that yeast. I reckon you're better off getting the $4 pack of yeast from the LHBS and pitching half of that. The mead will taste better for it as that bread yeast is a bit more specialised than what you normally buy at the supermarket.

I just think that the yeast choice cannot just be converted like gallons to litres.

I remember Joe saying in his original rant about the raisons being a nutrient for the yeast. Whilst we may prefer to use yeast nutrient/energiser, I think the raisons do add a nice complexity to the flavour.

This has to be the most popular mead recipe on the internet. Of course the recipe is helped along by Joe's rant and presentation of the recipe ("no, don't touch it" etc). Great for any first time Mazer.

Cheers


----------



## rontron

hey brewer pete, ive got my first JAO goin nicely, four weeks in and i cant wait til its bottleing time lol. i really want to to just a plain mead for my next batch, just wondering how your plain ,meads went and if you could recomend a nice recipe for me to try, thanks


----------



## Incognitiously

LukeCharles said:


> Can you half fill the fermenter if 23 litres and do a half batch? does this work?


Yes you most certainly can! That's precisely what I did for my first batch (perhaps a bit ambitious, but I trusted in the experiencve of those who'd made the recipe and presented it here). I just want to say it is MAGNIFICENT. I had to substitute imperial mandarins for oranges, as I'd read that navels had too much pith anc caused problems, but everything came out absolutely fine. I'm having to turn friends down who want more, because I don't have enough!

I'm thinking of trying to carefully play around with fruit--introduce strawberries, maybe--and go from there. I'll be risking a warm fermentation with a SEQLD spring and summer on its way, but I'm hoping to have mead ready to give out as Christmas presents.


----------



## brettprevans

mine version has been road tested. yup its too sweet. US05 starter being pitched to work down the gravity.

other than that its great. the addition of some star anise and the organge blossum honey works great with this. Im not sure that I would use bread yeast again though. too unpredictable. IMO its worth using a sweet mead yeast.


----------



## jakub76

I put down two more of these babies today, so easy! 



Last one I made tastes delicious, I can't keep my wife away from it. This time I'm making 2 gallons, 1 with the same Tandaco bread yeast I used last time and the other with US-05 yeast. Bottling was a pain last time as the bread yeast doesn't flocculate, it's very fluffy and easily disturbed. Plus it smells pretty bad...yeasty. It'll be interesting to see the difference in the two yeasts, identical must, same fermantation conditions etc.


----------



## jakub76

24 hours in and there's already some notable differences. The bread yeast has really kicked off. There's a constant stream of tiny bubbles throughout. 


See the little streaks, lots of tiny bubbles - fermenting healthily.

Meanwhile the US-05 has rehydrated and is mostly just hanging, clumped in suspension. In fact some of it has already settled leaving the must looking a lot lighter overall. 


Looking very closely I can see a few tiny bubbles rising but nothing like the bread yeast. 

I'll keep monitoring hoping it's just slower to start. If I get worried I'll try a fresh pitch of US-05 and if that fails then I'll throw in more bread yeast - as long as I haven't picked up an infection by then.


----------



## evilNat

I've got a JOA brewing with bread yeast and I also started up another recipe using wine yeast. I've noticed the wine yeast and the yeast of the kriek kit I've brewed took about 48 hours before there was any noticeable fermentation, if that makes you feel better


----------



## jakub76

Thanks Nat,
All good now...they're both cranking along nicely :icon_cheers:


----------



## McFly

What does this mead taste like? I am tempted to put one down once I work out a place in the house with a stable temperature. I have most of the ingredients except a bottle large enough (I'll probably try the bottled water like jakub76) and the honey, which I'll try for at the QV Market.

I tried some Maxwell Honey Mead last night, is it anything like that? The Maxwell stuff was like a sweet dessert wine.


----------



## jakub76

McFly said:


> was like a sweet dessert wine.


That's exactly how I'd describe the JAO.


----------



## McFly

Okay, thanks. At least now I know what I'm in for!

I can't say I'd drink a lot of that, but it sounds like a good brew to start with. Then I can move onto drier stuff.


----------



## Golani51

If I wanted to do ....lets say a triple sized batch.....do I triple all the ingredients or should some be limited??

R



Brewer Pete said:


> View attachment 26996
> 
> JAO Twins, 1 Clove and 2 Clove, a few days after pitching yeast.
> 
> 
> 
> This recipe is designed for beginners. Everyone else with an opinion can just buggar off!
> 
> For a 5 litre demijohn
> -------------------------------
> 
> 1.6kg honey (never boiled or lose the taste and aromas) (if I meant 1.5kg I would have written it)
> 1 large orange (at most cut into eight pieces -- rind and all)
> 1 small handful of raisins (25 if you can count)
> 1 stick of cinnamon (its brown, its wood, its good)
> 1 whole clove (or 2 if you like high potency)
> optional (a pinch of nutmeg and allspice )( very small mind you )
> 1 tsp of bread yeast (now don't get holy on me about bread yeast -- after all this recipe is DESIGNED for it)
> Balance water to bring batch out to 3.8 litres (did you know, there are 3.785411 litres per US gallon)
> 
> 
> Process:
> 
> Use a clean 5 litre demijohn.
> 
> Dissolve honey in some warm water and put in demijohn
> 
> Wash orange well to remove any pesticides and slice into eights (may wish to zest slightly, just shove em through the demijohn's hole)
> 
> Put in raisins, clove, cinnamon stick, any optional ingredients and fill demijohn with water to about 3.8 litres with cold water (need some room for some foam -- you can top off with more water after the first few days foaming frenzy). (You did remember to pour in a measured 3.8 litres and mark off the level on the outside of the glass demijohn before hand right?)
> 
> Shake the hell out of the demijohn with the top on or bung in (of course). This is your sophisticated oxygenation process.
> 
> When liquid is at room temperature, put in 1 tsp of bread yeast (no you don't have to rehydrate it first -- the ancients did not even have that word in their vocabulary -- just put it in and give it a gentle swirl or not)(The yeast can fight for their own territory)
> 
> Install water airlock. Put in dark place. It will start working immediately or in an hour. (Don't use grandma's bread yeast she bought years before she passed away in the 90's -- use the fresh stuff) (Wait 3 hours before you panic or call me) After major foaming stops in a few days add some water and then keep your hands off of it. (Don't shake it! Don't mess with them yeastees! Leave them alone except its okay to open your cabinet to inhale deeply the smell every once in a while.)
> 
> 
> Racking -- *Don't you dare!*
> Additional feeding -- *No! NO!*
> More stirring or shaking -- *You are not listening, do not touch!*
> 
> 
> After 2 months and maybe a few days it will slow down to a stop and clear all by itself. (How about that) (You are not so important after all) Then you can put a hose in with a small cloth filter on the end into the clear part and siphon off the golden nectar. If you wait long enough even the oranges will sink to the bottom but I never waited that long. If it is clear it is ready. You don't need a cold basement. It does better in a kitchen in the dark. (Like in a cabinet) likes a little heat (20C-25C). If it didn't work out... you screwed up and didn't read my instructions (or used grandma's bread yeast she bought years before she passed away) . If it didn't work out then take up another hobby. Mead is not for you. It is too complicated.
> 
> If you were successful, which I am 99% certain you will be, then enjoy your mead. When you get ready to make different types of mead you will probably have to unlearn some of these practices I have taught you, but hey -- This recipe and procedure works with these ingredients so don't knock it. It was your first mead. It was my tenth. Sometimes, even the experts can forget all they know and make good ancient mead.
> 
> This mead should finish quite sweet, if it finished dry, most likely your bread yeast has higher alcohol tolerance than Fleishmann's Bread Yeast (original recipe USA brand of dry yeast -- 12% alc tol. and high flocculation). In Australia for the past few years all the dry yeast sold is imported from China. So add more honey in the next batch and so on until it finishes sweet instead of dry or switch brands (but then again all the Australian brands today are probably from the same barrel of imported China dry yeast). Don't like it sweet? Add less honey next time.
> 
> Keep in mind, that will completely void the "warranty" of Ancient Orange recipe if you randomly use a different yeast. Different yeasts have different alcohol tolerance, and it just so happens that the Fleishman's active dry bread yeast is perfect for this recipe in regards to alcohol tolerance. Using another yeast would probably give better results *IF* the honey was re-balanced to suit the yeast. Again, this recipe is all about *BALANCE*. The bitterness from the orange and the sweetness of the honey balance perfectly with the alcohol level. I don't know if I just don't have a well enough educated palate or what, but I can't discern any yeast flavour in my Ancient Orange. It is young even by this recipe's standard; the batch cleared at about 4 weeks and is currently in bottles. Even at such an extremely young age, it turned out incredibly smooth with a wonderful flavour of the varietal honey that I used. The spices are "just right" and everything comes together perfectly. If it is not clear, just wait longer as one day it will magically turn from cloudy to clear and the fruit will drop meaning its time to bottle. Like any mead if you leave this one to age (although only need 6 months) then it just keeps tasting better. Foaming and clearing times are dependent upon yeast and temperature conditions.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete
> 
> View attachment 26997
> 
> JAO Twins today, note the honey is much lighter in colour now.


----------



## brettprevans

Golani51 said:


> If I wanted to do ....lets say a triple sized batch.....do I triple all the ingredients or should some be limited??
> 
> R


Like any recipe, just scale it. U want a triple batch? Increase it by 3. Want 25l? Increase by 5. Just make u increase all tge ingredients.


----------



## Golani51

I will probably have my aunt send a batch of Fleishmann's Bread Yeast sent from the US (my understanding is that you cannot get it here). Anyone interested in joining in for some?

R


----------



## jakub76

Golani51 said:


> I will probably have my aunt send a batch of Fleishmann's Bread Yeast sent from the US (my understanding is that you cannot get it here). Anyone interested in joining in for some?
> 
> R


I used Tandaco bread yeast from Coles and it worked out great


----------



## GumbyOne

Anyone used yellow box honey for this recipe (or any mead)? Got a mate whos old man keeps bees and was thinking of grabbing a few kilos off him, is it suitable?

Cheers,
Tim.


----------



## rontron

GumbyOne said:


> Anyone used yellow box honey for this recipe (or any mead)? Got a mate whos old man keeps bees and was thinking of grabbing a few kilos off him, is it suitable?
> 
> Cheers,
> Tim.




I used yellow box for my first batch and its currently 6 weeks in, and starting to clear, getting some really nice aroma's from it now, it should be ready in a few weeks so ill see what its like and post it, 
Ron


----------



## Golani51

I got a great Canadian- made plunger siphon in the US for 11 dollars. It fits, conveniently, just into a 5L demi (those costing around 12.50 from G&G). It has a little cap you can plunge to the bottom and it suck the fluid from the upper side, thus no issues whatsoever with yeast in it.

R


----------



## felten

13 weeks on so far, I guess I should bottle it but I'm being lazy.





The cleared pic is after 9 weeks, it looks a little hazier than it was but its completely see through. I noticed some fruit drop the other day but it's gone back up now. :|


----------



## jakub76

felten said:


> 13 weeks on so far, I guess I should bottle it but I'm being lazy.



I bottled mine after 10 weeks in primary and now after 7 weeks in bottles it's got a little bit effervecent - which I don't really like. I would suggest there's no worries with leaving it a while longer to make sure it's all finished fermenting. The cloudiness is weird, had you just moved it and disturbed the yeast?


----------



## felten

It wasn't as hazy as it appears in the picture


----------



## rontron

GumbyOne said:


> Anyone used yellow box honey for this recipe (or any mead)? Got a mate whos old man keeps bees and was thinking of grabbing a few kilos off him, is it suitable?
> 
> Cheers,
> Tim.






I just bottled my batch with yellow box, and it turned out beautifly, i would say its deffinatley suitable


----------



## felten

Well I bottled it finally, not sure what I was expecting to taste but its come out very similar to a fruity white desert wine (like a vermouth I have, but not as dry). Not much hint of spices unfortunately, but its not a bad drop. I didn't take an OG but it finished out at 1.034.


----------



## phrat

Hows this look? Leave the first row of data alone, it is for the ratios, change the others as needed.
View attachment JAOM.xls


I like to work things out so that the honey is in nice round units....

Any issue with filling a 5l Demi to the 4.75l mark?

Cheers.


----------



## GumbyOne

Rontron said:


> I just bottled my batch with yellow box, and it turned out beautifly, i would say its deffinatley suitable




Excellent, ive got 5kg ready to go just need to get me some demijohns :beer:


----------



## phrat

Ive just put down my 1st batch of JAO, just increased the volume to 4.75l
just have to wait now...

Nick


----------



## stuchambers

Put down a batch of this today I used what the lady in the Honey Tasmania called Rainforest honey she explained to me that the season was a little late and the bees used the flowers higher up in the canopy than she would have liked.
I used the tadanco bread yeast does anyone know how this performs, it has been on for about 4 hours now and is bubbling away constantly.
Do you think it will be ready for christmas or will i be pushing it?

Only had navel oranges available so I only put in six pieces as other have mentioned it became too bitter.

Cheers Stu


----------



## phrat

I got some really nice tasting honey from my work place, so I couldn't resit putting down batch #2....

Whats the consensus with regard to brewing temperatures? our ambient is 28'c day time, and 20 night. too much, the Demis are bubbling away like mad..


----------



## Phoney

I just siphoned off & bottled mine yesterday. Has been sitting for about 4 months, still hasnt cleared and the oranges havent droped. The yeast was very fluffy on the bottom and some of it went into the bottles.

The taste? Not pleasant. Tastes like honey mixed with off, over-ripened oranges. I couldnt drink it.

Will it improve in the bottle or should i chuck it and try again?


----------



## Chookers

I know you have already said bread yeast, and theres alot of questions about that.. but if the only issue with using the bread yeast is so it only brews out to around 12%, then could you use a cider or sweet mead yeast that will brew out to 11-12%, and expect the same results as the bread yeast??

Thing is I tried bread yeast in a very similar recipe and it was like a honey cordial very mildly alc and yeast flavoured, also I have cider yeast at my disposal so.. I suppose the real question do you use bread yeast just for the ABV %??? or is there some other reason to use the bread yeast.

Thanks (and apologies if this has already been answered)


----------



## Tanga

What Pete's said here reminds me of the book I'm looking at 'First Steps in Winemaking' - highly recommended. Some wines (and a few beers and meads) aimed at the amateur. Lots of 1 gallon (ie 5 litre) batches. Pity the glass demi-johns are so pricey - I'd love to give this one a go.

Just a question - for those who make it dryer do you need cut down on the spices? I'm thinking they may be a bit strong without the sugar. After I move house early next year I might look into trying something like this. Try and get it ready in time for winter


----------



## Chookers

Tanga said:


> What Pete's said here reminds me of the book I'm looking at 'First Steps in Winemaking' - highly recommended. Some wines (and a few beers and meads) aimed at the amateur. Lots of 1 gallon (ie 5 litre) batches. Pity the glass demi-johns are so pricey - I'd love to give this one a go.
> 
> Just a question - for those who make it dryer do you need cut down on the spices? I'm thinking they may be a bit strong without the sugar. After I move house early next year I might look into trying something like this. Try and get it ready in time for winter




Is that the book by C.J.J Berry. I got that with my wine making kit from ibrew. Im using olive oil bottles, which look exactly like the 5Lt Demis you see in homebrew shops.. I got a four pack at around $54, only thing is I had to buy $100 worth for my order to go through. Could buy two 4 packs and sell the rest on ebay  .. or just use them for aging.


----------



## Tanga

Yeah - the C J J Berry one (what a name for a winemaker). I didn't realise they still published that - I'm not surprised though. Is yours metric? *drools* - mine's fully old school. I picked it up at a second hand place (I kept an eye out for months before finding it). I haven't tried anything yet though. What've you tried / are keen on trying? I'm keen on trying loquats (using the plum recipe) - I think it'd go down a treat.

It makes me laugh that you got the bottles cheaper full of olive oil than the homebrew place sells them at *shakes head* - well done you. Smart move.


----------



## Chookers

Tanga said:


> Yeah - the C J J Berry one (what a name for a winemaker). I didn't realise they still published that - I'm not surprised though. Is yours metric? *drools* - mine's fully old school. I picked it up at a second hand place (I kept an eye out for months before finding it). I haven't tried anything yet though. What've you tried / are keen on trying? I'm keen on trying loquats (using the plum recipe) - I think it'd go down a treat.
> 
> It makes me laugh that you got the bottles cheaper full of olive oil than the homebrew place sells them at *shakes head* - well done you. Smart move.




mine has a metric column and an imperial column in each recipe.. and I think at the back is a conversion table as well.. makes things easy for me.. heheha :lol: 

I havent made anything either, but I liked the sound of Rice and Raisin Wine.. sounds easy enough for me but it says you have to leave it for 9mths, I could grow a baby in that time. Also really want to do his Barley Wine (medium) its one of his January recipes. The Summer rumpot sounds good though thats not technically homebrewing.. Apple wine and his meads and metheglin sounds interesting.. I'd say the Rice and Raisin and the Barley Wine.. are what I'll make first.. as soon as I get somemore 5Lt Demijohns..


----------



## Tanga

You _could_ grow a baby in that time, but it wouldn't be anywhere near as tasty. =p

The time is what put me off too. I'm thinking of grabbing a few water containers to play around with (little outlay) - or even grabbing some oztops and seeing what they can do with those recipes in a week.


----------



## Chookers

Tanga said:


> You _could_ grow a baby in that time, but it wouldn't be anywhere near as tasty. =p
> 
> The time is what put me off too. I'm thinking of grabbing a few water containers to play around with (little outlay) - or even grabbing some oztops and seeing what they can do with those recipes in a week.




haha yeh, baby vs Rice and Raisin wine.. one costs alot, makes alot of mess and takes years to mature.. the other  ...actually they both sound the same to me


----------



## leiothrix

One word -- veal.

I think i'd rather the beverage though.


----------



## Chookers

Hey, I'd rather the beverage too.. at least it does'nt talk back to you.. even if it does give you attitude (naughty mead)


----------



## Chookers

no, they were'nt full of olive oil (unfortunately  ).. They just listed them as Olive Oil bottles for some reason? Hey I wish they had been full of olive oil cause I use gallons of that stuff.. I have very big jars that had preseved eggplant and sundried tomatoes in I dont know their capacity though, but they would make good demis provided I could find a bung big enough to fit..


----------



## Tanga

Naw! Still a bargain though.

PS - baby crackling?


----------



## Chookers

even better, just found a local place selling 5L demis on special $12.95 each.. I think thats the cheapest I've seen so far.. I think I'll forget the olive oil bottles.. :lol: and its closer and there is no minimum spend.. wooo.. 

I really want to brew stuff.. the urge gets stronger a night.. I hope at least one of my experiments works out.. Im thinking of Doing the JAOM, but I think Im going to scale it down to a nano brew.. like use a 2L Sherry bottle and make 1L of the stuff, just to see if it works and if its a flavour I like. then if that goes well I'll do the full version of the recipe.. it will also give me the opportunity to tweak it and make different versions.. mini brews or should I say Baby brews.. Muuahahahahaaa


----------



## stuchambers

Hey all, 
My JAO has been bubbliing away for what must be a month now. 
I am hoping it will be ready for christmas and I can give some as presents
I knocked up a label of it today thought I would give you all a look

Cheers Stu


----------



## stuchambers

The next in my line of meads is a dry honey wine
the label will look something like this.
Cheers Stu


----------



## Tanga

Impressive labels Stu - very professional. I like the dark look. What bottles are you using?


----------



## stuchambers

Im going to use some small clear olive oil bottles for the presents they hold about 200ml sealing with a cork and then waxing the top with bees wax, so you get a hint of honey from the wax instead of using proper sealing wax. I talked to a bloke at the market and he said if you cool the wax quickly in ice cold water it becomes very shiny just like the sealing wax so I will give that a go.

As for the rest I will have to see if I can get my hands on some of those smaller 375ml wine bottles.

Cheers Stu

P.S I need another type of mead this one I will use red type any suggestions on what to make. If the style doesn't really go with red it can be changed buti think keeping the colours yellow orange and red would create a bit of flow.


----------



## Chookers

stuchambers said:


> Im going to use some small clear olive oil bottles for the presents they hold about 200ml sealing with a cork and then waxing the top with bees wax, so you get a hint of honey from the wax instead of using proper sealing wax. I talked to a bloke at the market and he said if you cool the wax quickly in ice cold water it becomes very shiny just like the sealing wax so I will give that a go.
> 
> As for the rest I will have to see if I can get my hands on some of those smaller 375ml wine bottles.
> 
> Cheers Stu
> 
> P.S I need another type of mead this one I will use red type any suggestions on what to make. If the style doesn't really go with red it can be changed buti think keeping the colours yellow orange and red would create a bit of flow.



Chilli mead, hot and firey :super:


----------



## Rodolphe01

I put down this Jao recipe on 22/6/2010 and there are a few floaties on the surface... I tried to take some pics but it is hard through glass.

The mead is otherwise crystal clear - is it normal for bits on the surface? If it was beer I wouldn't even pose the question. I haven't tasted it, nor opened it to smell, it has been closed up since it was made.

I plan to bottle it this weekend, so will find out how it tastes... Just a paranoid newbie


----------



## felten

I had some on mine, didn't seem to affect it.


----------



## Rodolphe01

Yea not overly concerned as it didn't appear until after active fermentation, settling of the fruit etc and it hadn't been opened or anything. Did notice though in moving the bottle to take the photos that the yeast roused very easily, bakers yeast doesn't form very compact yeast cake!


----------



## WarmBeer

Okay, first ever 3.8lt batch of JAO is ready for bottling. I'm planning on having it as a still mead, but want to add priming sugar to 1 stubbies worth in order to try what it's like as a sparkling mead.

My question, is the sugar priming rate for mead the same or similar as we use for beer? Should I use the standard teaspoon (using my HBS scoop, not an actual teaspoon) and risk possible bottle bomb?

Any JAO makers out there had experience with bottle priming their JAO's?


----------



## KudaPucat

Chookers said:


> I know you have already said bread yeast, and theres alot of questions about that.. but if the only issue with using the bread yeast is so it only brews out to around 12%, then could you use a cider or sweet mead yeast that will brew out to 11-12%, and expect the same results as the bread yeast??
> 
> Thing is I tried bread yeast in a very similar recipe and it was like a honey cordial very mildly alc and yeast flavoured, also I have cider yeast at my disposal so.. I suppose the real question do you use bread yeast just for the ABV %??? or is there some other reason to use the bread yeast.
> 
> Thanks (and apologies if this has already been answered)



I suspect the answer will be: "You can try what you like and see how it goes, but brew it as per recipe so you have something to compare it to"
1 gallon demijon will not cost you much for a benchmark, brew both. If bread yeast works, use it, it's a poofteenth the cost of brewer's yeast.

I should like to know how your experiment with cidre yeast turns out.

I have my first 3 demi's running at the moment. (read that as first 3 brewing attempts for anything ever) One is a JAO as per recipe. I have one spare demi, but the other two recipes require racking, so I'm keeping it spare to make that possible. If the JAO is great, I'll brew 4 more of that, and probably buy a big fermenter.

My dad has 4 hives for his orchard, and this is his second year. He discovered that my mum is a tight ass and wont hand out honey, even when he had a glut. So after my first kilo doled out by mum, he's just dumped 5 kilos on me. I expect should I ask for more, he'd be willing, however it might spoil the surprise of his first bottle of mead, as I've kept the brewing a secret from him. It should be ready for his birthday.
The honey's all candied massively though so was a pain in the neck, and had to be heated with water to about 70 degrees (perhaps more) to get it to dissolve in a reasonable amount of time. So I may have boiled off some volatiles.

My reason for making mead is: Dad's making wine and has a glut of honey. He suggested making it, but I know he has NFI (like me) and not much drive as all his equipment is tied up with wine. He also says "I'm thinking of making mead next year" so it's on the never-nevers.

The two non JAO meads suggested nutrient should be added - I skipped this, as my LHBS told me the yeast would cope, just ferment slower, and nutrient can give off flavours... I hope this is accurate.

I also want to know the effect of adding less yeast to the mix.
The two non JAO (I know: it's off topic, but I'm on a role) are using EC-1118 champagne yeast.
The packet suggests it will make 4-20 litres. In an effort to make multiple batches with the same yeast, but differing honey quantities, I used 1/3 of a packet per demi (4 litres)
I also thought this may improve the sweetness of the brew. Ideas?

thanks... it's taken me days to read this thread, and I started brewing when only half way through, so now have HEAPS of questions.


----------



## brettprevans

"The Compleat Meadmaker" by Ken Schramm answers a lot of questions that keep coming up on the forum. its a great read,.


----------



## Rodolphe01

WarmBeer said:


> Okay, first ever 3.8lt batch of JAO is ready for bottling. I'm planning on having it as a still mead, but want to add priming sugar to 1 stubbies worth in order to try what it's like as a sparkling mead.
> 
> My question, is the sugar priming rate for mead the same or similar as we use for beer? Should I use the standard teaspoon (using my HBS scoop, not an actual teaspoon) and risk possible bottle bomb?
> 
> Any JAO makers out there had experience with bottle priming their JAO's?



I am quite possibly wrong, and still haven't bottled my frist mead, but I thought the mead was sweet because it is self limiting fermentation in that the yeast reaches it's alcohol tolerance.... so if you prime, it won't actually carbonate as the yeast is clapped out.


----------



## KudaPucat

citymorgue2 said:


> "The Compleat Meadmaker" by Ken Schramm answers a lot of questions that keep coming up on the forum. its a great read,.



I have this book  but I've not yet finished reading it. It is a good read, but almost put me to sleep at the start with the 'Was mead the first brewed beverage' question!


----------



## WarmBeer

Rudi 101 said:


> I am quite possibly wrong, and still haven't bottled my frist mead, but I thought the mead was sweet because it is self limiting fermentation in that the yeast reaches it's alcohol tolerance.... so if you prime, it won't actually carbonate as the yeast is clapped out.


This makes sense, thanks Rudi, and I guess it is why the basic JAO recipe calls for bread yeast, not mead yeast.

I will just enjoy this first batch as a still mead, and if I like it enough, can plan on looking into further recipes down the track.


----------



## Rodolphe01

Just bottled my JAO, very happy with it. Turns out that the surface film was nothing to worry about as suggested. It was in primary for 5 months, chilled it down for ~1 week and bottled.

I pretty much followed the recipe, except:
* I used sultanas, not currants
* I used relatively crappy non-varietal 'bush' honey from the markets
* I used a regular supermarket orange


----------



## KudaPucat

Could this be made using lemon? or would that do something evil to the flavour? I have lemons on the tree outside, so they're heaps more appealing than oranges.


----------



## McFly

Howdy,

I've just put down the JAO as described and one with the same ingredients but using EC-1118 for comparison. I'm hoping the EC-1118 comes out a bit drier, as I prefer that.

Although to be honest I'm just hoping it works at all, that's a shitload of honey I've just put on the line...


----------



## KudaPucat

I'd have taken a small sample of my standard JAO, and pitched EC-1118 into it to see just how dry it became.
I guess if it's too dry you can always backsweeten. I wonder though if half the charm of this is the length of time it takes to ferment, drawing all the flavours out of the orange and spices. EC-1118 is a VERY fast yeast. It's weeks ahead of anything else I've pitched so far.
But I'm a major noob to brewing, so perhaps I have NFI ;-)
I hope it works out. Make sure you let me know, I like dry stuff too....


----------



## Tanga

Sparkling mead can be nice if it's not too sweet. That honey spritz on the tongue is to die for. Even if it doesn't take on the flavour of the spices it will probably end up quite drinkable (just totally different) - afterall the recipe I used wasn't too different to this (though it did end up too sweet and bottle bombing because I didn't measure my FG and bottled too early - the ones that survived were delish though). For your champers yeast I'd do as above, but prime the bottles - a bit more acid possibly wouldn't hurt either. Taste after your final rack and decide. Maybe prime with lemon juice?

What do you think Pete? Got a good sparkling mead recipe to compare?


----------



## brettprevans

im just thinking out loud here but the sweetness of the orange is what you want. lemon is way more tart. Ive used oranges in various brews and you dont get that same citrus taste as you would for a lemon. in saying that, here are drinks like Limoncello which are lemon based. so it could work it just wouldnt be JAO.

I cant say that my experiance with the bread yeast wasnt great. im having to repitch yeast at my 25L of JAO casue it has hasnt worked well enough. again if your wanting JAO its mean tto be a sweeter mead, but if you wanted a drier mead then so be it, its completely up to you to make stuff you like. I would err on the side of caution and not go a really dry mead with this as I think you will loose a lot of its flavours. 

wine yeast can be good, ive used it in cyser and it didnt come out winey at all. so im all for experiments.

edit: changed a word. my experiance wasnt great with bread yeast


----------



## KudaPucat

citymorgue2 said:


> im just thinking out loud here but the sweetness of the orange is what you want. lemon is way more tart. Ive used oranges in various brews and you dont get that same citrus taste as you would for a lemon. in saying that, here are drinks like Limoncello which are lemon based. so it could work it just wouldnt be JAO.


nah, it'd be JAL  Or perhaps HAL, as Joe had nothing to do with it!


citymorgue2 said:


> I cant say that my experiance with the bread yeast was great. im having to repitch yeast at my 25L of JAO casue it has hasnt worked well enough.
> 
> <snip>



Ummm My bread yeast is barely ticking along, the JAO has to be the slowest fermenter. It bubbles at half the rate of all but my nearly finished brews, and has almost 0 dissolved CO2 when I agitate it.
You mention repitching. How did this go for you? did it speed things up at all? Is it something worth trying? Can it hurt the must?
I think I would like to rehydrate my yeast next time too, not just bung it in.
I also noticed that my bread yeast wasout of date by 2 or 3 months when I pitched it.

"the ancients" might not have had the word 'rehydrate' in their dictionary, but it occurred to me to ask: Did the ancients freeze dry yeast seal it up and keep in in their refridgerator? Or did they use fresh yeast?


----------



## brettprevans

whoops. that was meant to be 'wasnt'. my experiance was crap with bread yeast. it sucked.

edit - im pitching some us05 at it. just building up a starter.


----------



## KudaPucat

I only have SN9 and D47...
either of these any good?
How about pitching more bread yeast at it?

Interesting that you said 'was'... indeed you didn, I just checked. But I read "Wasn't" perhaps it was your tone... odd.


----------



## brettprevans

i pitched more bread yeast with nutrient and nadda. 
D47 is sometimes reccomendded for ciders given its a chardy style wine yeast, so it could be interesting
so could SN9 given its used in fortifieds etc. its probably a little less attenuative than D47, so if you wanted a slightly sweeter JOA then id try SN9.


----------



## KudaPucat

citymorgue2 said:


> i pitched more bread yeast with nutrient and nadda.
> D47 is sometimes reccomendded for ciders given its a chardy style wine yeast, so it could be interesting
> so could SN9 given its used in fortifieds etc. its probably a little less attenuative than D47, so if you wanted a slightly sweeter JOA then id try SN9.



Cool thanks,
I'm going to give the recipe a bit more of a chance, it is bubbling once every 26 seconds or so, still. It's been pretty constant since I pitched it, which is why i feared there was insufficient live yeast, and it had not been able to multiply.
I'll pitch some more, rehydrated, with some nutrient and see if I have the same result as you.
We'll try to make this a controlled experiment between us eh?


----------



## McFly

Hmmm... I didn't think of splitting up the original must into two bottles (bread yeast and EC-1118) - that would have reduced the risk substantially. Oh well.

Both are bubbling away, so now I just sit and wait...


----------



## KudaPucat

Well, I pitched 1tsp rehydrated yeast at my JAO, and 2/3 tsp of DAP. 
now to see what happens. The DAP should not have been necessary, but I figure, it can't hurt.

I'll let you all know how it turns out. Hopefully it fires up ;-)


----------



## stuchambers

Hey all,

I started a batch on the 27/10 over the past week the bottle has become clear and half of the fruit has dropped.
Is this ready to bottle now?
Or shall I wait longer, I am wanting to give some as christmas presents will the flavour change much over the next and a bit.

Cheers Stu


----------



## gareth

stuchambers said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I started a batch on the 27/10 over the past week the bottle has become clear and half of the fruit has dropped.
> Is this ready to bottle now?
> Or shall I wait longer, I am wanting to give some as christmas presents will the flavour change much over the next and a bit.
> 
> Cheers Stu



It's good to bottle however letting it mature in the bottle for a few months makes a big difference to the final taste.


----------



## stuchambers

Hey all,
I bottled my first batch of JAO or as I will be calling it Spiced Orange Mead.
It tasted good different to the mead I had tried previous very subtle orange and spice with an alcoholic warmth and a sweet honey finish.
Here are some pictures of the almost finished product, the small bottles hold about 200ml and I have sealed them with Bees Wax.
The larger bottles are brandy bottle 700ml.







I am giving the small bottles as gifts the labels are on page 15 or this thread. (I think)

EDIT: what do most of you get as ABV% I didn't take any reading but to me it seems kinda high much higher than 12% wine, it has a little warmth/ burn to it.

Cheers Stu


----------



## KudaPucat

KudaPucat said:


> Well, I pitched 1tsp rehydrated yeast at my JAO, and 2/3 tsp of DAP.
> now to see what happens. The DAP should not have been necessary, but I figure, it can't hurt.
> 
> I'll let you all know how it turns out. Hopefully it fires up ;-)



Well, nothing happened.
So I took an SG reading and got 1050 down from 1142
so I think I know now why there was no activity. :unsure: 
No clearing yet. No fruit dropping yet. Bubble rate down to once/40s
Not much patience left ;-)

That's looking nice stu! It's good to have an idea of the clarity I'm to expect. Thanks for posting pics


----------



## felten

12% is about the limit that bread yeast can reach. My fruit didn't drop out until 14 weeks or so, and then a few pieces floated back up again, trapped co2 can take ages to dissipate. IIRC mine finished at 1034 but I estimated it started at 1121, so that's around 11.5%


----------



## Chookers

I scaled this recipe down so far, I only got 1x750ml bottle full.. in total it probably would have come to 800ml. I used 500g of rainforest honey and the lowan brand of yeast in the cylinder.

I did such a small batch for two reasons, one incase I didnt like it and two even if it was as good as everyone says, sweet wines are'nt usually to my taste.. 

I was surprised how clear it came out and how blonde, as the honey I used was quite dark.. and this recipe performed exactly as said it would.. cleared in its last week.. and tastes lovely. I like it despite its sweetness and would catagorise it as a sweet sherry or port.

If I was to make it again in these small quantities I would put two clove buds, I use one clove in my scaled down version as its impossible to scale a clove and took a chance that it would'nt over power the mead..

Its a nice drop and in time for Christmas..


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## KudaPucat

Well done!
I only wish mine could be ready for Christmas :-(
Some raisins began to drop today, but I fear it wont be ready :-( it's still cloudy.
Such envy I am experiencing. Congrats


----------



## Golani51

Rudi 101 said:


> I put down this Jao recipe on 22/6/2010 and there are a few floaties on the surface... I tried to take some pics but it is hard through glass.
> 
> The mead is otherwise crystal clear - is it normal for bits on the surface? If it was beer I wouldn't even pose the question. I haven't tasted it, nor opened it to smell, it has been closed up since it was made.
> 
> I plan to bottle it this weekend, so will find out how it tastes... Just a paranoid newbie


It might be trouble.........why don't you bottle it and I will let you know what I think. Make it two......better safe than sorry!


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## Rodolphe01

haha, turns out it is just fine, although I did have a bottle last night that tasted a wee bit sour... planing on having more tonight with the family so here's hoping it was just 1 dud bottle.

i put down 2 more batches 2 weeks ago, the same recipe but in 1 of them I put a few teaspoons of cocoa powder. we'll see, i reckon that the sweet spiced orange flavour will work with a hint of chocolate - it is intended for this time next year, hoping it will taste like european christmas in a bottle


----------



## Chookers

KudaPucat said:


> Well done!
> I only wish mine could be ready for Christmas :-(
> Some raisins began to drop today, but I fear it wont be ready :-( it's still cloudy.
> Such envy I am experiencing. Congrats




haha  thanks

when mine start to clear.. (I was checking it everyday btw) it cleared in one week. I could have left it longer but it was very clear and my orange slices were still floating.. now I gotta leave it alone until tomorrow.. and I have already had another 60ml out of it (I dont know what the alc% is but it made me feel a little fuzzy) Im thinking I may just have to do a full batch, after all I have an empty demi just sitting around.


----------



## KudaPucat

Well it's clear and drunk now. I have 2 new batches on
It was way too sweet for my liking, and the bread yeast was so fluffy that it made racking a right PITA.
Has anybody successfully used a commercial wine yeast as a substitute?
My bread yeast has a tolerance of almost 14% btw, and it was still too sweet, so I've dropped the OG in the next two batches, but I fear one will ferment completely dry, and I doubt that the flavours will work then.


----------



## Chookers

KudaPucat said:


> Well it's clear and drunk now. I have 2 new batches on
> It was way too sweet for my liking, and the bread yeast was so fluffy that it made racking a right PITA.
> Has anybody successfully used a commercial wine yeast as a substitute?
> My bread yeast has a tolerance of almost 14% btw, and it was still too sweet, so I've dropped the OG in the next two batches, but I fear one will ferment completely dry, and I doubt that the flavours will work then.




I used EC-1118 and I used a cider yeast which was also recommended for mead, They both turned out DRY...

I have a smack pack of Wyeast 4184 for Sweet Mead, which I have'nt tried yet.

But after doing some reading Im starting to think the sweetness of your mead, may have more to do with the amount of Honey, rather than the yeast.. My JOAM was sweet but the honey to water ratio was also higher.. When I made my mead with EC-1118, I 1:4 (1L Honey to 3L Water) it was dry.. Im going to do a a 1L honey to 2L water and see how that turns out using the same yeasts again, I think I will also sdo one with beer yeast. As far as flavourings go I will never again boil them with the honey, I'll flavour in bottle and only one or two flavours, like clove and orange or cinnamon. My dry mead tastes like beer and I have no idea why.


----------



## KudaPucat

EC-1118 has an extremely high alcohol tolerance 18% Most bread yeast is 12% or so.
"Cidre Yeasts" are oft very high tolerance also.

Yeah. The honey was heavy and sweet, so following the weight suggestions, it therefore had a very high SG. My two next batches have differing amounts of honey in them as a test.

The dry mead that tastes like beer: is that the EC-1118 batch? I have a dry cidre from EC-1118 and I found it to have a very beery aftertaste, as well as a mango mel that I made.

I'm reliably told that given 6-9 months, the flavours will come back and that beery taste will diminish within the plethora of aromas and flavours.
Dry *needs *to age I'm told. Which is why the 'ready in 2 months JAO' is a sweet mead.

What I don't get is that all of my sweet meads are still cloudy, some months after the dry ones are clear... but that's a bit OT for the JAO thread.


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## Tanga

I'm going to bottle my JAO in the next few days. I didn't use this recipe, so I'm going to have to pasteurise, but the Lavlin D-47 worked really well, and didn't leave that medicinal aftertaste you usually get in a young mead. It will ferment out much too dry for this recipe, but if you do want to use a wine strength yeast I recommend this one. On doing some reading I've found that this seems to be the case for others as well.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Bottled my JAO and have tried it 2 weeks later.

I used Lowan's bread yeast (I put this specifically, so anyone else can search for it) - it obviously has a higher alcohol tolerance.

It turned out a bit like a white wine with fruitiness. I didn't use the raisins in the recipe, but did use some cardamom pods as they are sweetish.

It's really nice, but there isn't any sweetness - it turned out quite dry-ish, but subtlely so, if compared with a chardonnay, for arguments sake.

Conclusion therefore is Lowan's bread yeast has a higher abv tolerance.

I will use a beer yeast such as nottingham next time.

I was fortunate enough to obtain 4kg of honey at $7 a kilo from someone I met through my line of work who is an amateur apiarist.

Goomba


----------



## Bribie G

I notice that Brewer Pete hasn't posted since last July - I know he was building a new place somewhere and may have given up brewing / hives for the time being. Anyone been in contact?


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## KudaPucat

Goomba
Please be aware: abv is dependent on the amount of honey, amount of water, quality of honey, health of yeast etc. 
The only way you can assume loans has a higher abv is to measure the gravity before and after. 
Brewer Pete did a test and used lowans. I'm sure he'd have mentioned if it were highly tolerant. Check out his thread on JAO yeast off or whatever it was called
IMHO for some reason you had a lower grav must. 
Also the raisins are so few that you wouldn't taste them. They're in the recipe as yeast fodder. 
My yeast managed 13.5% and it was still sweet. Even using EC-1118 it still would have been semi sweet. 

What were your honey to water measurements. I could estimate you SG from that, but all honeys are different.


----------



## KudaPucat

Yeah I have.


Brewer Pete - 03 January 2011 said:


> I've been in a hectic state for a while with no time and had to move and all my gear is in storage so I'll be facing yet another major move soon and might find it hard to get online over the next 3 months or so, but I'll be back soon enough!


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

KudaPucat said:


> Goomba
> Please be aware: abv is dependent on the amount of honey, amount of water, quality of honey, health of yeast etc.
> The only way you can assume loans has a higher abv is to measure the gravity before and after.
> Brewer Pete did a test and used lowans. I'm sure he'd have mentioned if it were highly tolerant. Check out his thread on JAO yeast off or whatever it was called
> IMHO for some reason you had a lower grav must.
> Also the raisins are so few that you wouldn't taste them. They're in the recipe as yeast fodder.
> My yeast managed 13.5% and it was still sweet. Even using EC-1118 it still would have been semi sweet.
> 
> What were your honey to water measurements. I could estimate you SG from that, but all honeys are different.



It was a total of 15L from 4kg of honey, I went slightly under the 3.8L per kg suggested. I forgot to take a SG reading, so didn't bother with FG, but from the taste (having brewed other non-beer drinks), it'll be around .98 to 1.000. It is quite high in abv - very high - the alcohol taste is there and it packs a mean punch.

The other thing is that the weather here in Bris-vegas (not flooded, too high, but couldn't get to work for a week) has been unbelievably warm and humid. I pitched the yeast, with only minor aeration (taking into account the weather) and the yeast took like a rocket - I thought I was brewing beer for a minute.

Next time, to get a sweet batch, I'll choose a wine yeast with a specific alcohol tolerance.

It tastes great - but given I fairly well followed the recipe, gave myself a bit of leeway by reducing the amount of water by a couple of litres to get a slightly higher SG (just to reduce that possibility), I'm putting it down to the yeast brand. Plus some research on my friend google seems to indicate that Lowan's has a pretty high tolerance.

My OP was purely an FYI post.


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## KudaPucat

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> My OP was purely an FYI post.



I get that, but I just can't help discussing. ;-)

4kg of honey @ sg 1.4 (average) = 2.86 Litres.
So you had 15 - 2.86 = 12.14 litres of water = 12.14 kg so 16.14 kg with the honey.

16.14kg /15 litres = 1.076

So your SG by my calc was low. My bread yeast drops 100 points, as do most wine yeasts. So this must would have fermented out dry with all but a 6% or less yeast.

I will have to consult the recipe, but something here appears askew.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, I'd like to nail down the math in my head...


----------



## moogusty

not sure if i'm reading this right but I thought 3.8 litres required 1.6 kg of honey


----------



## KudaPucat

moogusty said:


> not sure if i'm reading this right but I thought 3.8 litres required 1.6 kg of honey


Provided the honey weighs 1.4kg/litre your values will give an OG of 1.120
Which is in the ballpark. 
If your yeast like mine will drop 100 points, you'll het a semi-sweet mead. 
If lower abv tolerant yeast is used like fleishmans then you'll get a desert wine finishing at more like 1.040

As bread yeast is not documented for brewing, you will need to test the alcohol tolerance yourself. Your second batch should be spot on how you like it if you took good notes the first time.


----------



## moogusty

just thinking perhaps raja was short on honey was all. 4kg to 15 litres seems short was guessing thats why the SG was low


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## KudaPucat

Ahh, I misunderstood, but agree wholeheartedly. His is a common rookie mistake of not measuring the gravity beforehand. That way you can know for sure.


----------



## moogusty

while we're on the subject though does anyone have preferred methods of consumption i.e straight up @ room temp or warmed on a cold night perhaps?
I only ask because i'm getting near to bottling time and i still have no idea what to expect or what is common place in mead drinking


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## KudaPucat

It's really up to personal preference. Generally I like a room temp wine, however if it's too sweet, then chilling it reduces your ability to perceive sweetness so it makes a refreshing drink. 
I normally wouldn't drink anything warmed, unless it had a bucket load of spices in it. 
Unfortunately you'll just have to try it and see.


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## biggo

This is a really good recipe, its the first one I ever tried and I was awesome.
At the time I got it form a different site. ^_^


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

You're right, I didn't take SG reading. My stupid mistake - I had a beer on at the same time, and this was just a cheap-ish experiment (I paid $7 per kg).

I've had two people drink half a bottle and not remember much the next day (one drinks a bottle of white, without any noticeable side effects). It is dry, it is high in abv. That I can assure you of.

So, notwithstanding my stupid mistake to not measure, and therefore throw the maths out (sorry), the fact that it is unbelievably potent still leads me to believe that the yeast attenuates higher than the specified variety.

Still, damn good, nonetheless. I'll make another dry and try a sweet at the same time.

Goomba


----------



## KudaPucat

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> <snip>
> 
> Still, damn good, nonetheless. I'll make another dry and try a sweet at the same time.
> 
> Goomba



I would attempt different sugar levels well before I changed to wine yeast. From my calculations, the ABV of your must would probably be simmilar to what a JAO should be, but you just had no residual sugar. I'd increase your honey by at least 50%.
Buy a hydrometer. ensure your must is >1.100 and <1.140 and I think you'll do well.

The other thing about mead is that it hits harder than many other alcohols. It gives a MEAN hangover.
@ 14% it acts a lot higher. This is hypothesised to be because especially in younger meads the fusels and other higher order alcohols that may be present have a more debilitating effect on the imbiber.
By the above logic, nicely aged mead should be as polite as commercial wine WRT hangovers and ability to knock you senseless


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

KudaPucat said:


> I would attempt different sugar levels well before I changed to wine yeast. From my calculations, the ABV of your must would probably be simmilar to what a JAO should be, but you just had no residual sugar. I'd increase your honey by at least 50%.
> Buy a hydrometer. ensure your must is >1.100 and <1.140 and I think you'll do well.
> 
> The other thing about mead is that it hits harder than many other alcohols. It gives a MEAN hangover.
> @ 14% it acts a lot higher. This is hypothesised to be because especially in younger meads the fusels and other higher order alcohols that may be present have a more debilitating effect on the imbiber.
> By the above logic, nicely aged mead should be as polite as commercial wine WRT hangovers and ability to knock you senseless



Thanks for the tip. I do have a hydrometer, but like I mentioned, I was in the middle of brewing beer at the same time, and didn't really give the attention to the mead I should have.

I didn't even think of the fact that there would be no residual, simply because all sugar was eaten up due to the thinness of the must. I suppose it is because I generally control the fermentability of beer with mash temps, something I don't have the capacity to do with mead so much.

I was going to get a 12% wine yeast, and see how I went, but I'll take a gravity reading and make sure it is in range, rather than just chucking it on.

Having said that - like I said, I've stumbled across a nice drink, that is cheap to make.

Hangover is mean - I've had one person (not me - I'm smart) tell me that. I've heard another theory relating to honey being naturally preservative, and therefore having a similar effect to sulphites. However I react to even a minor amount of preservative in alcohol, so that theory may be wrong.

Thanks again, much appreciated and hopefully this will educate others as well.

Goomba


----------



## pete75

Hi guys thanks for sharing your recipes and thoughts, I am about to make a small batch soon but have a question.
Are the oranges there for flavour or do they serve another purpose. Can I leave out the oranges altogether but keep the rest of the recipe the same or substitute for pineaple or pears.

Regards pete


----------



## KudaPucat

Pete75 said:


> Hi guys thanks for sharing your recipes and thoughts, I am about to make a small batch soon but have a question.
> Are the oranges there for flavour or do they serve another purpose. Can I leave out the oranges altogether but keep the rest of the recipe the same or substitute for pineaple or pears.
> 
> Regards pete


Simply: no. You can't. 

This recipe is carefully balanced. It is designed by a meadher with mor skill and experience than anybody posting here in the last 6 months. 
It is recommended that you try it as per recipe before you alter anything. 
That being said, the answer to your question is: yes. The pith in the orange imparts bitterness to the mead, carefully offsetting the sweetness. If you cut the orange into quarters, it will be overpoweringly sweet. If you cut it into sixteenths it will be overpoweringly bitter. 

Make the recipe, do some research, then try a modification. But don't change anything until you have a baseline, or else you might as well just experiment blindly from scratch. 

The raisins also play a part in feeding the yeast nitrogen. They won't impart much flavor, as there's nit enough in the recipe for that.


----------



## pete75

KudaPucat said:


> Simply: no. You can't.
> 
> This recipe is carefully balanced. It is designed by a meadher with mor skill and experience than anybody posting here in the last 6 months.
> It is recommended that you try it as per recipe before you alter anything.
> That being said, the answer to your question is: yes. The pith in the orange imparts bitterness to the mead, carefully offsetting the sweetness. If you cut the orange into quarters, it will be overpoweringly sweet. If you cut it into sixteenths it will be overpoweringly bitter.
> 
> Make the recipe, do some research, then try a modification. But don't change anything until you have a baseline, or else you might as well just experiment blindly from scratch.
> 
> The raisins also play a part in feeding the yeast nitrogen. They won't impart much flavor, as there's nit enough in the recipe for that.



Thank you very much.

Regards pete


----------



## Davesp

Hi guys

If I, for example, forgot to buy bread yeast when i was doing my shopping and used an aprox 15% wine making yeast I had lying around instead, any idea roughly how much extra honey I should add to get the sweetness level the same?


----------



## KudaPucat

Dave McDave said:


> Hi guys
> 
> If I, for example, forgot to buy bread yeast when i was doing my shopping and used an aprox 15% wine making yeast I had lying around instead, any idea roughly how much extra honey I should add to get the sweetness level the same?




With mead making a use a factor of 133-135 for my calculations.

So 15%/135 = 0.110
so you're going to drop about 110 points.

you want this to finish between 1020 and 1040 so mix your must to a gravity of 1130 - 1150 (personally I'd suggest the lower value - as your yeast may not reach it's full potential following the JAO guide)

the low side will give you a sweet mead, the high will give a desert or sack mead.

If this makes no sense, and you don't have a hydrometer - Go buy one <-- this is my best piece of advice to anybody making booze.


----------



## pete75

Ok purchased some supply's but the supermarket only had large naval oranges I require 3.75 oranges for my batch. So should I scale it down to 3.25 oranges to compensate for their size or just leave it alone.

Regards Pete


----------



## pete75

Sorry forgot to ask something else.

When the mead has finished fermenting and lets say it is not sweet enough can more Honey be added or will this just restart the fermentation process again. How to make the mead sweeter without raising the alcohol content.

Pete


----------



## felten

That depends on the yeasts alcohol tolerance, JAO relys on the bread yeast having about a 12% alc tolerance and then carking out and leaving residual sweetness.


----------



## KudaPucat

felten said:


> That depends on the yeasts alcohol tolerance, JAO relys on the bread yeast having about a 12% alc tolerance and then carking out and leaving residual sweetness.



So yes, honey can be added after... just be aware fermentation may continue after you've stirred up the yeast, but not much. Just monitor it befode you bottle to make sure no bottles explode.

Oh, and add honey to a glass of mead first, so you know how much to add without overdoing it. That'd be a real shame, cos you can't take the honey back out after!


----------



## pete75

KudaPucat said:


> So yes, honey can be added after... just be aware fermentation may continue after you've stirred up the yeast, but not much. Just monitor it befode you bottle to make sure no bottles explode.
> 
> Oh, and add honey to a glass of mead first, so you know how much to add without overdoing it. That'd be a real shame, cos you can't take the honey back out after!



Good idea to sweeten a small sample first++++
This is a bit more complicated than my normal mix.
Sugar + Yeast+ Still = MMMMMM RUM

Regards Pete


----------



## Brewing_Brad

10 years after I first started brewing (kits) I have finally laid down my first mead. I was put off my all the recipes saying I had to wait between 6-48 months before I sampled it, so this recipe came as a god send.

This is what I did:

* 6.5kg honey (Patterson's Curse)
* 4 medium to large, thin skinned oranges
* 4 sticks of cinnamon
* 4 whole cloves
* 4 tsp of bread yeast
* Top water up so total volume is 20L

One thing that I just realised I forgot was the raisins. I put the mead down on Monday, so is it too late to add them?

I filled the airlock with cheap vodka and started been bubbling away like a little champion within the first hour...do I need the raisins at all?

Cheers
Brad


----------



## KudaPucat

Brewing_Brad said:


> 10 years after I first started brewing (kits) I have finally laid down my first mead. I was put off my all the recipes saying I had to wait between 6-48 months before I sampled it, so this recipe came as a god send.
> 
> This is what I did:
> 
> * 6.5kg honey (Patterson's Curse)
> * 4 medium to large, thin skinned oranges
> * 4 sticks of cinnamon
> * 4 whole cloves
> * 4 tsp of bread yeast
> * Top water up so total volume is 20L
> 
> One thing that I just realised I forgot was the raisins. I put the mead down on Monday, so is it too late to add them?
> 
> I filled the airlock with cheap vodka and started been bubbling away like a little champion within the first hour...do I need the raisins at all?
> 
> Cheers
> Brad



Raisins are yeast fodder. 
You may get off flavours if you stress your yeast by not having them. 
It's not too late.


----------



## Brewing_Brad

KudaPucat said:


> It's not too late.


That have now been added. Fingers crossed!


----------



## Brewing_Brad

Brewing_Brad said:


> That have now been added. Fingers crossed!


This may seem like a readlly dumb/noob question, but do I need to sanitise them? I did, so will that affect it?


----------



## Dave70

This rule about keeping it in a cupboard, is there a valid reason for it? Will a little sunlight skunk it?

I'd like to sit my demijohn on the microwave cos I think it looks quite ornamental and makes for an interesting conversation starter.


----------



## Dave70

Pitched a sachet of Tandaco yeast into the mead tonight.

I ran the baby's bath and by the time I was toweling him down, probably around twenty minutes, the air lock was ka-blooping away.

..amazing..


----------



## pdilley

Go Tandaco go!

The cupboard rule is for people 1st time new to brewing that need a pointer to an area in the house good for fermenting with rudimentary temperature control. There are no hops or compounds that will react and skunk it but keeping it out of sight keeps people messing with the mead and the potential to inadvertantly mess it up.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## Dave70

Cool.
I may shift it to the top of the fridge as it's more temp stable and out of the way.

As for the 'conversation starter' element - thats going to go something like 'is there a tap dripping?'..


----------



## JulieRush

I put one of these down at the end of feb and have basically left it in the corner of the lounge (classy, I know!) and ignored it. It's wrapped in a black towel to keep the light off it. Airlock was a bit bubbly at first and it smelt awesome, but activity has died off completely now.

It's been really hazy and cloudy and murky since I started it, and I figured it'd come good when it was good and ready.

Took the towel off this morning and it's cleared right up. Fruit is still floating so it's not ready yet, but it's nice and clear and looks fantastic. I'm hoping it tastes ok.I uUsed a standard baker's yeast as per the recipe so we'll see how it goes once the fruit drops.

I also have a mead I bought when on Kangaroo Island recently, so it'll be interesting to taste the commercial mead with my own side-by-side and see just how good/bad/etc mine turns out.

looking forward to that fruit dropping!


----------



## pdilley

Don't stress the fruit drop as the design is for beginners without refractometers or hydrometers to measure for a stop in fall of gravity.

3 months is a good wait so if by then the fruit still floats you most likely are done.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## Mitchell

Can anyone tell me if the cinnamon in the JAO recipie is true cinnamon or cassia?


----------



## pdilley

I use cassia sticks myself.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## Dave70

Brewer Pete said:


> I use cassia sticks myself.
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete



Did you know those suckers are hand cut by a man with a knife?

I didn't.


----------



## pdilley

You just ruined my image in my mind of buxum young virgins doing the work in the nuddy.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## Spork

Thank you Brewer Pete for this thread, I printed the recipe (v15) and will get the ingredients soon. Also need to get a bubbler and a bung - or just a balloon. A few pages back someone said they were going to make this in an empty 4.5litre scotch whiskey bottle, thats my plan also. Adequate headroom? Lastly, a few mentioned it, but has anyone made this with leatherwood honey? I'm tempted to try that, or just go to the apiarist down the road and get some of his honey.


----------



## pdilley

Should be alright as JAO is not a huge krausen producer as my SNA meads are. Balloons work in a pinch if you find it difficult finding a bung the correct size.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## Team_Beer

Hi Pete,

thanks for the write up! just put one down today! only difference is i used Goji berries instead of raisins as i had these and they are similar.... picture below :icon_drool2:


----------



## brettprevans

Finally got around to tasting my JAO afyer pitching US05. Great stuff now. It's lost some guts/body but it's a milder softer maybe more delicate mead. I've bottled 6 and kegged the rest. Should be great. 23l of meady goodness.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

citymorgue2 said:


> Finally got around to tasting my JAO afyer pitching US05. Great stuff now. It's lost some guts/body but it's a milder softer maybe more delicate mead. I've bottled 6 and kegged the rest. Should be great. 23l of meady goodness.



Don't pour it in beer proportions. I have a lovely soft mead that's dry and easy to drink. But it packs a damn punch.

I did one as a sparkling, and it was fantastic, as was the still version.

Goomba


----------



## Margrethe

Is there proper instructions for this one? I really cbf trawling through 20 pages to find the working recipe. 

I'd like a quickish mead- just found a new honey supplier- hanging to give his gear a go!


----------



## brettprevans

Margrethe said:


> Is there proper instructions for this one? I really cbf trawling through 20 pages to find the working recipe.
> 
> I'd like a quickish mead- just found a new honey supplier- hanging to give his gear a go!


Dude that's fkn lazy. Seriously. 

Look at the 1st page. 

Goomba. It's no more potent than my RIS, Scottish heavies etc. It's all good.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

citymorgue2 said:


> Dude that's fkn lazy. Seriously.
> 
> Look at the 1st page.
> 
> Goomba. It's no more potent than my RIS, Scottish heavies etc. It's all good.



Mine might be higher - 14%ish.

It's not just the abv - it's something else. Some say fusels or something - I just know that it will kick if you overdo it and overdoing it is a far lower point, for my mead, than say a bottle of wine of similar abv.

Wish I had kegs, et al. To have it in there would be fantastic.

Goomba


----------



## Golani51

citymorgue2 said:


> Finally got around to tasting my JAO afyer pitching US05. Great stuff now. It's lost some guts/body but it's a milder softer maybe more delicate mead. I've bottled 6 and kegged the rest. Should be great. 23l of meady goodness.



How long did it take you to ferment out before bottling?


----------



## Margrethe

My bad. Wrong forum. Thats what I get for running macro's and doing my forum posting after a bottle and a half of Maxwells. 

My apologies lads! I was going to originally say in this post that I'd made a similar mead before, and its sitting in Perth in a storage unit- so I'm excited to get another one happening out here! 

Now that I'm here I might as well use this recipe...it seems the recipe on the other forum I frequent is flawed- you all seem to be having success with this one!

It would appear that I posted my post here to my soaping forum!! Reason #1 to not drunk post.


----------



## Spork

Went and got an airlock, a bung and some sanitiser today, and picked up the ingredients. Got clover honey from local honey man. He also had busyh honey, and said both would make a good mead. I'll try the bush honey next time I guess. Just waiting for my batch to cool a little more before I chuck in the yeast.
Wish me luck on my first brew.


----------



## Golani51

I started the mead Sat evening and although there is only a little frothing going on, I can see loads of bubbles forming, especially from the sultanas. I only used 1500gm honey (everything else kept the same), but the SG came out to only 1085 at 22 or so degrees. I recall it should start higher. Did I screw up somewhere?
I thought I would do it a little less sweet and had 3 * 500gm containers of honey so added a little less.

Does this all sound normal?

Other issue is that I look and want to mix, shake, stir,...............I know not to touch it but am having difficulties. I have problems!


----------



## pdilley

1.125 is a good target to get a finish around 1.030 or so, as low as 1.020 is still ok, but a sweet port is what you are aiming for.

1.085 will go dry as for example if we had 1.036 from 1.125 the difference is close to 90 points which puts you around 0.995 ball park. Exact numbers will dependent on your must, yeast and environmental conditions.

Although the SG of honey can vary depending on variety, water content, and other factors, it is about 1.438 gravity points. I have seen some dodgy honeys sold at weekend markets that was almost liquid and not properly dried out so don't worry about variability.

If you want to bump your SG with simple sugars its ok as you have the majority of honey flavour contribution by percentage already. Some fine tuning won't hurt the end product's taste. Or just add more honey with gentle stir until gravity is close to what you want.

If you have your SG and you test your current gravity you can then make a correct judgement on how much to add.

Numbers:
1.125 -> 1.036 = 11.85% ABV, sweet port
1.085 -> 0.995 = 11.97% ABV, dry ferment

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## Golani51

To get a reasonably sweet product, should I add another 200gm honey? I think I may have added 3.8L water instead of making it all up to the 3.8L mark. 

R



Brewer Pete said:


> 1.125 is a good target to get a finish around 1.030 or so, as low as 1.020 is still ok, but a sweet port is what you are aiming for.
> 
> 1.085 will go dry as for example if we had 1.036 from 1.125 the difference is close to 90 points which puts you around 0.995 ball park. Exact numbers will dependent on your must, yeast and environmental conditions.
> 
> current gravity you can then make a correct judgement on how much to add.
> 
> Numbers:
> 1.125 -> 1.036 = 11.85% ABV, sweet port
> 1.085 -> 0.995 = 11.97% ABV, dry ferment
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

Extra water would definitely do it.

Provided you have 3.8 litres of 1.085 gravity honey must, adding 200 grams of 1.425 gravity honey would net you 1.102 OG.

Adding 300 grams would be 1.110

Adding 400 grams would be 1.117

Adding 500 grams would be 1.125


So once again if you can measure you gravity before you add and during your additions you can dial it in perfectly.

If not, then guessing will kind of get you there provided you know exactly where and what the original error point was, otherwise you may over compensate and it is easier to add some sweetness in than take it out.

EDIT: Doing all this in my head so you want to always check the figures. 400 will still make a sweet finish if 90 points is converted you have 1.027 finish.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## Kevman

I put a JAO on to brew during the Easter break. I couldn't believe how easy it was. Practically had all the ingredients in the pantry. Just had to buy the demijohn and the honey. 

Now its just blooping away quietly.


----------



## Golani51

Brewer Pete said:


> Extra water would definitely do it.
> 
> Provided you have 3.8 litres of 1.085 gravity honey must, adding 200 grams of 1.425 gravity honey would net you 1.102 OG.
> 
> Adding 300 grams would be 1.110
> 
> Adding 400 grams would be 1.117
> 
> Adding 500 grams would be 1.125
> 
> 
> So once again if you can measure you gravity before you add and during your additions you can dial it in perfectly.
> 
> If not, then guessing will kind of get you there provided you know exactly where and what the original error point was, otherwise you may over compensate and it is easier to add some sweetness in than take it out.
> 
> EDIT: Doing all this in my head so you want to always check the figures. 400 will still make a sweet finish if 90 points is converted you have 1.027 finish.
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete



I have added 400 last week, and upon returning from Tassie this evening, saw the JAO bubbling away like mad still. Delightful. Been 19 deg the whole time.

Had a bottle of mead in Tassie, a spiced mead, and it was nice enough but too cold. Nothing I could do as I was camping. $15/bottle. Not sure the brand though.

R


----------



## Smashin

Mine uses Leather-wood honey straight from the comb, the bee keeper brought it around the day he harvested and I put down the JAO that night. Not sure how well suited leather-wood honey is for mead's or the JOA in-particular but I'll find out soon. I put it down 18/2 so 3 months is nearly up, I'm out of the country at the moment and as it turns out i get home on the 18th, Very eager to get home and have a sip or two while racking.

Smashin :icon_cheers: 






Spork said:


> Thank you Brewer Pete for this thread, I printed the recipe (v15) and will get the ingredients soon. Also need to get a bubbler and a bung - or just a balloon. A few pages back someone said they were going to make this in an empty 4.5litre scotch whiskey bottle, thats my plan also. Adequate headroom? Lastly, a few mentioned it, but has anyone made this with leatherwood honey? I'm tempted to try that, or just go to the apiarist down the road and get some of his honey.


----------



## pdilley

Thats a very sexy piece of glass! :wub: 

I do like demi's out of their plastic covers, looks much nicer imho.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## Smashin

Thanks Bpete, I bought it purely for making mead (JOA initially). Its a 15L demi with 10L of JAO. Its back in its plastic basket in the fermenting cupboard, photo for show just after mashing???/mixing/crafting in.

Just 43hrs and 4300km till we are back together...

Smashin.






Brewer Pete said:


> Thats a very sexy piece of glass! :wub:
> 
> I do like demi's out of their plastic covers, looks much nicer imho.
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete


----------



## McFly

I put two of these on ages ago. One with EC-1118 (which I had lying around) and one with baker's yeast.

The EC-1118 has cleared, and has been sitting on the lees for quite a while (a few weeks). I just haven't had time to look at it. Will this be an issue?

Also, as the baker's yeast doesn't seem to be clearing, is there anyway to give it a nudge?

I'll grab the brew log and find the dates to give you a better idea of timeframes. They've been going for a very long time.


----------



## JulieRush

been hanging out for this to be ready!

The differences between what I did and the actual recipe on the first page: I used half the amount of orange but in smaller slices. It seemed that the pith supplied the bitterness and the thread suggested it was all about the surface area of pith that was exposed, and the orange wouldn't fit into the demijohn in such large slices, so I compromised and went of slimmer slices so they'd fit in the demijohn.

I started this back at the end of february and it's been sitting quietly away testing my patience ever since.

I too was sceptical about the bread yeast but the logic for its use seemed sound and I didn't read any "eww it's yucky" posts either so I went with the bread yeasties I had in the cupboard.

a fair amount of yeasty bubbles to start with and some great smell off the airlock which bubbled gently away, but then it settled right down to nothing.

It took ages for it to clear up... I'd guess about 6 or 7 weeks, and the fruit never did drop and that's three months so I figured lets' get stuck in and see what we have created.

So, I've bottled it around 5 mins ago and couldn't resist a quick taste.

wow!

this. stuff. is. awesome!!!!

just the right amount of sweetness and some really awesome warming qualities on the way down. You wouldn't want to get stuck right into this as a first drink of the night but as a toasty winter warmer it is great! the clove and cinammon have blended really nicely to give it a hint of spiciness which is really good against the sweetness that's left after the yeast has finished.

Can't thank you enough for the recipe Brewer Pete... it's a goodie and no mistake!!

I reckon this will be a hit with the missus too.


----------



## pdilley

McFly said:


> I put two of these on ages ago. One with EC-1118 (which I had lying around) and one with baker's yeast.
> 
> The EC-1118 has cleared, and has been sitting on the lees for quite a while (a few weeks). I just haven't had time to look at it. Will this be an issue?
> 
> Also, as the baker's yeast doesn't seem to be clearing, is there anyway to give it a nudge?
> 
> I'll grab the brew log and find the dates to give you a better idea of timeframes. They've been going for a very long time.



EC-1118 is a champagne yeast. It is like a pit bull dog. Aggressive and chews through all the sugars in one big woof down of food. Its no wonder it won the race (is there one? ). But as it eats all the sugars and does not leave any to balance all the other goodness in JAO, it may not taste good at all (see warning throughout the whole thread about voiding the warranty by poo-pooing bread yeast and using other yeasts).

The bread yeast is just yet another strain of beer yeast. It is slow and takes its time and when it makes a fair bit of alcohol it decides it has had enough and then goes to take a nice nap and leaves the rest of the work unfinished with regards to the left over sugars in the mead. In short, there is no rushing the clearing but at the same time there is also no need to wait. You are not entering a mead competition so cloudiness is not a fault and you can tuck into the mead if you want. If you have the patience of a god you may find by the time you are on your last small 330ml bottle it has cleared 

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

Darren_S said:


> been hanging out for this to be ready!
> 
> ...
> 
> So, I've bottled it around 5 mins ago and couldn't resist a quick taste.
> 
> wow!
> 
> this. stuff. is. awesome!!!!
> 
> just the right amount of sweetness and some really awesome warming qualities on the way down. You wouldn't want to get stuck right into this as a first drink of the night but as a toasty winter warmer it is great! the clove and cinammon have blended really nicely to give it a hint of spiciness which is really good against the sweetness that's left after the yeast has finished.
> 
> Can't thank you enough for the recipe Brewer Pete... it's a goodie and no mistake!!
> 
> I reckon this will be a hit with the missus too.



:icon_chickcheers: --- need I say more?!

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## KudaPucat

I made 6 JAO variations recently.
However after 15 days, the control batch (straight JAO - by the book) is clear.
I've never seen one clear this fast, especially with our low temps!
I haven't taken a reading yet, as I only noiticed this morning, but what could be going on?


----------



## pdilley

KudaPucat said:


> I made 6 JAO variations recently.
> However after 15 days, the control batch (straight JAO - by the book) is clear.
> I've never seen one clear this fast, especially with our low temps!
> I haven't taken a reading yet, as I only noiticed this morning, but what could be going on?



The bulk of fermentation should be done in 2-3 weeks and then can start clearing or not, depending on the ingredients used. 

It is normal for clearing times to be varied over the shop. Up to 2 months is given as a general guideline. I've seen from one month mark up to nearly 4. Its not nothing to worry about. 15 days is faster than I have encountered so far, but not unknown for mead though usually with the use of SNA methods. It would be good to go through the notes and see what variations in ingredients/freshness and to look for wild yeast introduction sources as part of the process of sifting through the data.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## KudaPucat

I'll post what my notes say when I can... although I fear they're breif... I'm not so fastidious with JAO's due to the 'Put em in the corner and forget them' directive.


----------



## pdilley

Put this one in the same corner and forget about it 

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## KudaPucat

Brewer Pete said:


> Put this one in the same corner and forget about it
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete



:-D
I haven't moved it. It's just that it's next to a big carboy of "Yo's strawberry pizzaz" which does need some attention. Not least to stop the fruit plug from causing MEA. 
So I noticed and nearly fell over!

My notes say
Prepared 9/5/11
Yellow box honey
Style JAO
Yeast - local bread yeast. French variety. Perhaps imported. Yields 14% in a JAO
OG 1109 (I don't like them so sweet, so am looking for a 1010 finish. 
1 navel orange. 
1 clove
1/2 a cinnamon stick (all I had)
25 sultanas (ran out of raisins)
Started above a heater vent. 
10/5. 19 degrees - blocked the heater vent. 
11/5. 17 degrees
14/5. 15 degrees
15/5. 14 degrees
21/5. 17 degrees
26/5. OMG it's clear. WTF? Ask Brewer Pete. 
28/5. 16 degrees

Sorry. This is all I have. 
The major difference here, is that its the first one I have just never touched since pitching. 
My 2 clove batch, (all other conditions identical) is not clear, but the sultanas fall if the bottle is bumped. 
Non of the other 4 variations for comparison even look like finishing.


----------



## brettprevans

Well some feedback

Took a bottle of my version of still JAO mead (ie not sparkling which I also have) to my club night during the week. Pretty much a hit with everyone incl the clubs resident mead expert. Lots of comments about complexity of flavours and a killer aroma etc. If u had have had more there they would have drank it all.

If ur considering a mead this is a good starting mead.

Edit: patience is a virtue. Mine was fermenting/clearing/conditioning for 8months to get these results. 

BrewerPete - found a bloke at the club that keeps bees and makes eculypt honey, so I'll develop up a recipe and PM you and we can post the results in a diff thread.


----------



## pdilley

citymorgue2 said:


> Well some feedback
> 
> Took a bottle of my version of still JAO mead (ie not sparkling which I also have) to my club night during the week. Pretty much a hit with everyone incl the clubs resident mead expert. Lots of comments about complexity of flavours and a killer aroma etc. If u had have had more there they would have drank it all.
> 
> If ur considering a mead this is a good starting mead.



Bloody oath! :icon_chickcheers: 

JAO is making a new generation of brewers with bread yeast who are experiencing the much maligned bread yeast. I think most of our early rubbish bin brewers are just looking for something easy to blame their crap results on 

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## JulieRush

would be worth mentioning that SWMBO took a small bottle to a work quiz night and everyone loved it!

so much so that I'm kicking myself for not making more.. to rectify the situation I put down another batch at the weekend!


----------



## fcmcg

Brewer Pete said:


> JAO is making a new generation of brewers with bread yeast who are experiencing the much maligned bread yeast. I think most of our early rubbish bin brewers are just looking for something easy to blame their crap results on
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete


Having a read through Randy Moshers Radical Brewing , there are actually a few beers where the yeast he says to use is bread yeast...I'm thinking of making one of these beers soon..
In more on topic information , my JAO has been going for a week now...it's looking very sexy and i kinda like the fact it makes my airlock work h34r: 
Pete,thanks again for this recipe...i had a taste of it at a brew club meeting earlier in the year and was inspired to make my own....
The only caveat , couldn't find Fleischmans yeast , so i hope the old tandaco will be fine !
Cheers
Ferg


----------



## Golani51

fergthebrewer said:


> Having a read through Randy Moshers Radical Brewing , there are actually a few beers where the yeast he says to use is bread yeast...I'm thinking of making one of these beers soon..
> In more on topic information , my JAO has been going for a week now...it's looking very sexy and i kinda like the fact it makes my airlock work h34r:
> Pete,thanks again for this recipe...i had a taste of it at a brew club meeting earlier in the year and was inspired to make my own....
> The only caveat , couldn't find Fleischmans yeast , so i hope the old tandaco will be fine !
> Cheers
> Ferg



I used Tandaco and it has been bubbling away for a solid month so far. The never ending story.


----------



## Margrethe

Could this be done in a cube? We want reasonable amounts, as we're brewing to give away as gifts at our wedding- would it be sacrilege to do it in a cube or similar? 

Just a random thought. Otherwise we'll go buy some demi's.


----------



## felten

There's a recipe somewhere in the first few pages for a 20L batch I think, you can make it for any size though, it's just as easy as scaling up all the ingredients accordingly.


----------



## pdilley

fergthebrewer said:


> Having a read through Randy Moshers Radical Brewing , there are actually a few beers where the yeast he says to use is bread yeast...I'm thinking of making one of these beers soon..
> In more on topic information , my JAO has been going for a week now...it's looking very sexy and i kinda like the fact it makes my airlock work h34r:
> Pete,thanks again for this recipe...i had a taste of it at a brew club meeting earlier in the year and was inspired to make my own....
> The only caveat , couldn't find Fleischmans yeast , so i hope the old tandaco will be fine !
> Cheers
> Ferg



Tandaco is fine ferg.

I have also, not yet posted, been brewing beer using left over wort hanging around in the fridge with bread yeast. I was starting a experiment to report on before all the moving issues and having to put all my gear in storage last year. I still plan on brewing it again when time permits and with a larger batch of wort.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

Margrethe said:


> Could this be done in a cube? We want reasonable amounts, as we're brewing to give away as gifts at our wedding- would it be sacrilege to do it in a cube or similar?
> 
> Just a random thought. Otherwise we'll go buy some demi's.



My largest demijohn is 54 litres !

But yes you can scale the batch but do check your SG at the start 

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

Patience is rewarded handsomely with mead Golani51 

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## TmC

Going to make this today, was going to double the recipe as it looks as if everyone loves this mead. I have my hands on a few kilo's of North Queensland 100% Natural Honey, its as hard as a brick so going to leave it in the sun to soften out. Was also thinking of doing a Sparkling version along side it, would anyone suggest a good yeast for this? Sorry i glanced but didnt find.


----------



## Golani51

Brewer Pete said:


> Patience is rewarded handsomely with mead Golani51
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete



Yep. Sure is.

I added Feijoa wine, Feijoa/Pear wine (demi was too full for the whole batch so chose to make a varient for the remaining litre or two), and Chinese Rice wine to the fermenting cupboard yesterday(bottom of daughter's hanging clothes cupboard- keeps brews at 18-20 deg most of the year). I am a sucker for long- term punishment.

R


----------



## pdilley

TmC said:


> Going to make this today, was going to double the recipe as it looks as if everyone loves this mead. I have my hands on a few kilo's of North Queensland 100% Natural Honey, its as hard as a brick so going to leave it in the sun to soften out. Was also thinking of doing a Sparkling version along side it, would anyone suggest a good yeast for this? Sorry i glanced but didnt find.



As an alternative you can add some hot water to the cold honey to melt it while stirring slowly and then add the warm slurry to the fermentation vessel.

Then add cold water until your SG is reached.

Then check temperature for safe range to pitch in the bread yeast and then you mass pass go 

EDIT: For sparkling, your only option is to measure the ongoing fermentation and bottle before FG is reached. Your only safe option for sparkling is to just keg the finished still mead and gas it up.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## TmC

Thanks pete, have two 7.2L batches in their FV now, just waiting for them to cool down. Was going to make one with Bakers yeast and maybe the other with brewers yeast, the ones that come under the kit lids. Would that still work? followed your recipe down to the dot except might have been a few grams under honeywise, my honey came in 3kg bottles and for 7.2L was meant to be 3.2 but oh well.


----------



## pdilley

Darren_S said:


> would be worth mentioning that SWMBO took a small bottle to a work quiz night and everyone loved it!
> 
> so much so that I'm kicking myself for not making more.. to rectify the situation I put down another batch at the weekend!



Did she win the quiz? 


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## pdilley

TmC said:


> Thanks pete, have two 7.2L batches in their FV now, just waiting for them to cool down. Was going to make one with Bakers yeast and maybe the other with brewers yeast, the ones that come under the kit lids. Would that still work? followed your recipe down to the dot except might have been a few grams under honeywise, my honey came in 3kg bottles and for 7.2L was meant to be 3.2 but oh well.



Only sticking point is can you look up the fermentation parameters of the under-the-lid kit yeast? (You are looking for the ABV range the yeast is capable of before giving up [Alcohol Tolerance]).

If not, then you can not safely say yes or no to the question.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## TmC

Right, i might just use bakers yeast on both of them and then play around with the brewers yeast in my 5L demi i have coming. Thanks again.


----------



## JulieRush

Brewer Pete said:


> Did she win the quiz?
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete


absolutely not... but by that point her and her team were well away so didn't care too much for the results


----------



## Jesco

G'day,

Just a quick question-

I've used this recipe, seems to be working well except I'm not seeing any bubbling throught the air lock. Is this a concern or not a problem when making mead? I've made 2 batches, one 4L batch using the original recipe, and another 12L batch - same recipe apart from using a 'proper' mead yeast. Both have no bubbling through the airlock.

Any advice appreciated, cheers!

regards,

Jesco


----------



## Golani51

Jesco said:


> G'day,
> 
> Just a quick question-
> 
> I've used this recipe, seems to be working well except I'm not seeing any bubbling throught the air lock. Is this a concern or not a problem when making mead? I've made 2 batches, one 4L batch using the original recipe, and another 12L batch - same recipe apart from using a 'proper' mead yeast. Both have no bubbling through the airlock.
> 
> Any advice appreciated, cheers!
> 
> regards,
> 
> Jesco


Let me jump in and say NO. Even wih some beers you don't get the bubbling through the airlock, even though you can see that there was a kreusen of a couple inches. I don't think anyone has given a valid reason for this but it does happy quite often. If you see bubbling (and it does for a couple months), then there is a conversion to alcohol which is what we want. The bubbling is of course the carbon dioxide form the reaction. Where it goes when there is no bubbling, I do not know. Some say it is a leak, but if using a carboy, it is highly unlikely. The eigth wonder of the world!! The only issue I have with no bubbling is the lack of relaxing bubbly music.


----------



## Jesco

Golani51 said:


> Let me jump in and say NO. Even wih some beers you don't get the bubbling through the airlock, even though you can see that there was a kreusen of a couple inches. I don't think anyone has given a valid reason for this but it does happy quite often. If you see bubbling (and it does for a couple months), then there is a conversion to alcohol which is what we want. The bubbling is of course the carbon dioxide form the reaction. Where it goes when there is no bubbling, I do not know. Some say it is a leak, but if using a carboy, it is highly unlikely. The eigth wonder of the world!! The only issue I have with no bubbling is the lack of relaxing bubbly music.



Hi Golani,

Thanks for the advice, good to know it's not a real concern. 

I know the 4L batch is bubbling away as you describe, so yes the yeast is doing it's thing. I'll have to check on the 15L batch, which was only started yesterday. I was just perplexed (like you) on where does all the gas go, if not through the airlocks... I'm very sure theres no leaks and very little headroom in both containers.

... and I fully agree on the bubbly music, I love it!

Thanks


----------



## Spork

About a week ago I looked at mine - and it had all cleared. No lunger a pale straw opaque fluid in the bottle, it had transformed to a beautiful pale gold colour with amazing clarity! A few days later the fruit all dropped. that also happened "overnight". Just waiting for my silicon syphon tube (and other goodies) to arrive and I'll bottle it. Can't wait to get another one going. This time will put in my ferment fridge and keep at 18c for the duration.


----------



## Spork

All bottled. 
Now I just have to get the big lumps of orange out of my fermenting bottle...
Didn't take an OG reading, so NFI what % alcohol this batch is, but you can smell it and taste it - and it tastes good!
Will do another batch, prob 11.4 litres (3x size of 1st one) in a 15 litre cube. Will use more fridge space than the 4.5 litre bottle, but will a) be easier to get the orange out of, B) be easier to bottle the final product (has a tap, won't need to syphon) and c) give me > 3 x as much finished product! (There was quite a bit of waste left in the bottom of the bottle from the 3.8 litre batch).


----------



## TmC

Spork said:


> All bottled.
> Now I just have to get the big lumps of orange out of my fermenting bottle...
> Didn't take an OG reading, so NFI what % alcohol this batch is, but you can smell it and taste it - and it tastes good!
> Will do another batch, prob 11.4 litres (3x size of 1st one) in a 15 litre cube. Will use more fridge space than the 4.5 litre bottle, but will a) be easier to get the orange out of, B) be easier to bottle the final product (has a tap, won't need to syphon) and c) give me > 3 x as much finished product! (There was quite a bit of waste left in the bottom of the bottle from the 3.8 litre batch).



I got 2x 10L containers from bunnings, they are pretty much a mini version of the 20L but white and bought a tap. They were on sale for 6$ so i got two and have 7.2L of mead in each and have experimented with a 5L container from woolies that was holding water, doest have a tap but will see how it turns out. After 2 weeks my hydro read 1.080 which has dropped from 1.100+ (only went up to 100). Only problem is that its hard to see the clarity of the mead through the 10L fermenters but thats not such a big deal.


----------



## brettprevans

Spork said:


> All bottled.
> Now I just have to get the big lumps of orange out of my fermenting bottle...
> Didn't take an OG reading, so NFI what % alcohol this batch is, but you can smell it and taste it - and it tastes good!
> Will do another batch, prob 11.4 litres (3x size of 1st one) in a 15 litre cube. Will use more fridge space than the 4.5 litre bottle, but will a) be easier to get the orange out of, B) be easier to bottle the final product (has a tap, won't need to syphon) and c) give me > 3 x as much finished product! (There was quite a bit of waste left in the bottom of the bottle from the 3.8 litre batch).


not to be a stickler, but I really hope you CANT taste the alc. thats a fault not a good thing. now most 'beers' etc once they start to get high in alc % will have some alc taste, but its better for their not to be a distinguishable alc taste. esp hot solvently alc casued by fusel alc.

Im sure thats not what you meant. 

Also you shouldnt have had to waste too much. you could have tipped most of into a second fermentor or container leaving behing mmost of the 'trub' and then let it all settle and then pour off more of the mead. takes a little time but its worth it to get another 3L worth. I just bottled the last few litres of mine and am careful to pour slowly so as not to disturb the 'trub'. nice and easy and minimal waste.

hope you enjoy your JAO.


----------



## Dave70

Hey Pete, check this out.

Only a few hours old:








At six months: (you can just see my copy of Brew Like A Monk through it)







As you can see, the fruit hasn't dropped but for a couple of rasions and a wedge of orange. What do you reckon, ready to crash chill and bottle?


While we're at it, is it possible to do a lightly carbed version? I was thinking it might be interesting to set a couple of bottles aside and maby just give them a stubbies worth of priming sugar to see how it goes. What do you think?


----------



## brando

Dave70 said:


> Hey Pete, check this out.
> 
> Only a few hours old:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At six months: (you can just see my copy of Brew Like A Monk through it)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see, the fruit hasn't dropped but for a couple of rasions and a wedge of orange. What do you reckon, ready to crash chill and bottle?
> 
> 
> While we're at it, is it possible to do a lightly carbed version? I was thinking it might be interesting to set a couple of bottles aside and maby just give them a stubbies worth of priming sugar to see how it goes. What do you think?



Dave70,

Yep, I'll be priming a couple of stubbies of JAO when I bottle mine.

BTW, I thought this stuff only needed about 3 mths ferment time??


----------



## Dave70

brando said:


> Dave70,
> 
> Yep, I'll be priming a couple of stubbies of JAO when I bottle mine.
> 
> BTW, I thought this stuff only needed about 3 mths ferment time??



I dunno. Mine really only started to clear about a month ago, then one morning it was like *ping*. After having less than stellar results with my last batch (see 'rubbish') I wanted to give this one time to do its thing. 

Hell of a yeast cake, eh?

Actually come to think of it, it started at the end of January and started clearing mid May or there abouts. 

*note to self - *make notes to self..


----------



## pdilley

Six months is well and truly done. Bottle that bad boy right away. 3 months is plenty to start thinking of bottling at an average 18 C temp fermentation.

JAO ferments out completely to yeast alcohol tolerance so their is no oomph left in it to carb up a bottle. At this point in the fermentation keg and gas are the only recomendable approach to a sparkling. Good news is its bloody good as a still wine.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## brettprevans

Brewer Pete said:


> At this point in the fermentation keg and gas are the only recomendable approach to a sparkling. Good news is its bloody good as a still wine.
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete


im with pete here. ive got several bottles still and a keg carbed. im leaning towards still being better. you can certainly drink it faster/easier with some carbonation but its not really the kind of drink where you want to be able to do that, so I wouldnt worry about having it carbed. I dont think ill bother carbing my next straight mead


----------



## TmC

I had no idea how hard it would be to leave my mead for 2 months. Its only been 4 weeks and i have already taken two gravity readings! Luckily i have 3 batches going incase it turns out how it should (heard good things about it). I thought i might ease the pain a bit by putting down another recipe i found on the interwebs for just a normal mead. 

Chubby Bat Mead

3kg Honey 
1 heaped teaspoon of tea leaves
1 cinnamon stick
10 cloves
1/2 tsp ground ginger
1/2 tsp nutmeg
1/2 tsp allspice

Made to 15L. 

Going to put this one down soon.


----------



## Tanga

Sounds good. I can tell you from experience that those spices work wonderfully with a heavy mead.


----------



## pdilley

Patience is a good thing to have with Meads, the good news with JAO is your few months wait is nothing compared to normal Mead recipes you will find out there in book and on forums. Once you can handle the JAO wait, then move up to a traditional recipe with the normal 1 to 2 year wait and see how you go and if its worth it for the result. If you can not wait, just fall back to making a lot more JAO and be happy.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## kjparker

I was considering putting one of these together, but dont have / cant afford right now a demijohn. Would a 5l empty plastic spring water bottle be ok?


----------



## pdilley

clueless said:


> Would a 5l empty plastic spring water bottle be ok?



Yes.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## KudaPucat

They tend not to break as easy too, and if you cap em off too early they let you know that the pressure is building.
Go for it.


----------



## kjparker

KudaPucat said:


> They tend not to break as easy too, and if you cap em off too early they let you know that the pressure is building.
> Go for it.




Excellent. Now to just find some inexspensive honey!


----------



## kjparker

clueless said:


> Excellent. Now to just find some inexspensive honey!


ok.

Just had a sucessfull hunting trip in Woolies.

All done for $17 including the bottle of water for the "demijohn" (I used the water for the mead!)

Already had an orange and some bread yeast. Will have to see how this turns out!

Is 18 deg too low for this? I have it in my ferment fridge, and have been making ales of late, is this likely to be a problem? I dont care if it takes longer, as it doesnt take much room in the fridge!


----------



## KudaPucat

clueless said:


> ok.
> 
> Just had a sucessfull hunting trip in Woolies.
> 
> All done for $17 including the bottle of water for the "demijohn" (I used the water for the mead!)
> 
> Already had an orange and some bread yeast. Will have to see how this turns out!
> 
> Is 18 deg too low for this? I have it in my ferment fridge, and have been making ales of late, is this likely to be a problem? I dont care if it takes longer, as it doesnt take much room in the fridge!


That temp shouldn't be an issue. I have JAOs chugging on ATM at 14-16 celcius. 
If the bread yeast you have is not a pack of Grandmas from the mid nineties, then you aught to be fine. 
I don't know, as I don't brew beer, but I've heard of yeasts cross contaminating through airlocks. 
Find out if this is a concern for either your mead or your beer.


----------



## kjparker

KudaPucat said:


> That temp shouldn't be an issue. I have JAOs chugging on ATM at 14-16 celcius.
> If the bread yeast you have is not a pack of Grandmas from the mid nineties, then you aught to be fine.
> I don't know, as I don't brew beer, but I've heard of yeasts cross contaminating through airlocks.
> Find out if this is a concern for either your mead or your beer.




I discovered probably 30 minutes after posting that it was certainly fine! Healthy krausen, and positive pressure on the gladwrap airlock. This stuff sure kicks off fast!

Now to wait. To be honest though, I dont mind how long it takes, as long as eventually it gets there.

I doubt there will be any problem with cross contamination with the yeast, both fermenters have positive pressure, so nothing is going to get past that!


----------



## TmC

clueless said:


> I discovered probably 30 minutes after posting that it was certainly fine! Healthy krausen, and positive pressure on the gladwrap airlock. This stuff sure kicks off fast!
> 
> Now to wait. To be honest though, I dont mind how long it takes, as long as eventually it gets there.
> 
> I doubt there will be any problem with cross contamination with the yeast, both fermenters have positive pressure, so nothing is going to get past that!



My hydro samples taste awesome so putting on another 2 batches today with a normal mead.


----------



## kjparker

TmC said:


> My hydro samples taste awesome so putting on another 2 batches today with a normal mead.




Why the need for hydro samples? My understanding is that the gravity doesnt matter with meads? They're done when their done? ie when clear?


----------



## TmC

clueless said:


> Why the need for hydro samples? My understanding is that the gravity doesnt matter with meads? They're done when their done? ie when clear?



I dont use airlocks so am making sure the yeast doesn't fall asleep.


----------



## kjparker

TmC said:


> I dont use airlocks so am making sure the yeast doesn't fall asleep.


Fair enough, I'm not using an airlock either, just gladwrap with an elastic band. I figure whilst the gladwrap is "firm" it's still going. If it is also kept at stable temps it shouldnt fall asleep either...


----------



## KudaPucat

I take hydro readings at the start and at the end (when clear).
For the following reasons
1) you can approximate the alcohol
2) you have a record so you can clinicly reproduce a brew
3) you have a starting point for tweaking the residual sweetness
4) you can be certain the ferment is over - (no being clear is not certainty - take readings 1 week apart when wanting to bottle and ensure it's not dropping)
5) knowing when it's almost done is good for if you want to rack it to encourage clearing of a recalcitrant brew.

there's probably a couple of other good reasons too, but I can't think of em ;-)


----------



## McFly

G'day,

Just a quick update on my brews. I've misplaced my brew book but I wrote some info on the brewing bottles.

I kicked off two batches of JAO in October last year, one with EC-1118 and one with Defiance bakers yeast.

I bottled both a few days ago. The bakers yeast mead is STILL cloudy, but I had everything out and sterilised so I bottled it anyway. This pic is the EC-1118 mead. It is a little bitter on the back of the palate but certainly displays what the recipe is capable of, and is not undrinkable. I knew I was messing with the recipe, hence the two batches.

The bakers yeast mead is sweeter (possibly too sweet for me). I'm interested in experimenting with meads, but it'll take a while to get through this lot, I think.


----------



## TmC

Wow, 8 months? Thats a long wait  

Mine just turned one month old.


----------



## Tanga

Was there a 'medicinal' kind of taste to the 1118 mead McFly? I've heard bad things about it as a mead yeast (had to be aged a loooong time for the medicinal flavour to mellow out), longer even than most dry meads.


----------



## Smashin

Smashin said:


> Mine uses Leather-wood honey straight from the comb, the bee keeper brought it around the day he harvested and I put down the JAO that night. Not sure how well suited leather-wood honey is for mead's or the JOA in-particular but I'll find out soon. I put it down 18/2 so 3 months is nearly up, I'm out of the country at the moment and as it turns out i get home on the 18th, Very eager to get home and have a sip or two while racking.
> 
> Smashin :icon_cheers:
> 
> View attachment 45785



Well I finally got around to bottling this today. Turns out the date I put it down was actually the 18/3 much to my disappointment when I got home last rotation. Anyway this additional month allowed the fruit to drop as per plan. This certainly tastes very nice from the few sips to snuck from it last night. I didn't take an OG but from the recipe it calculated out at 1.121, and the measured FG was 1.042 (10.4%). I found it well balanced on the sweetness, bitterness and alcohol, not too sweet and not too dry, the bitterness was subdued yet I think I will knock it back ever so slightly next time. The alcohol also came through quite nicely, yet I think I'll push this up slightly on the next batch. The orange aroma and flavor was detectable (not unpleasant but not expected and masked the honey flavor and aroma) which I hope will also drop off next time with the reduced orange addition and slightly increased honey %. Surprisingly I can't detect the Cinnamon or cloves at all. So I'm tossing up either adding more or steeping them in hot water before pitching on the next batch.

Anyway many thanks BP this has proven to be a great recipe to cut my teeth on. Looking forward to a nice big glass tonight. While putting the next batch down.

On the bottling front I wasn't sure if i should leave any head space as I call a discussion earlier on mead oxidizing, so I have left no head space and completely filled the bottles. Hopefully this has reached a terminal FG and stays 'still' and won't turn into a time bomb....


Smashin :icon_cheers:


----------



## Smashin

Smashin said:


> Well I finally got around to bottling this today. Turns out the date I put it down was actually the 18/3 much to my disappointment when I got home last rotation. Anyway this additional month allowed the fruit to drop as per plan. This certainly tastes very nice from the few sips to snuck from it last night. I didn't take an OG but from the recipe it calculated out at 1.121, and the measured FG was 1.042 (10.4%). I found it well balanced on the sweetness, bitterness and alcohol, not too sweet and not too dry, the bitterness was subdued yet I think I will knock it back ever so slightly next time. The alcohol also came through quite nicely, yet I think I'll push this up slightly on the next batch. The orange aroma and flavor was detectable (not unpleasant but not expected and masked the honey flavor and aroma) which I hope will also drop off next time with the reduced orange addition and slightly increased honey %. Surprisingly I can't detect the Cinnamon or cloves at all. So I'm tossing up either adding more or steeping them in hot water before pitching on the next batch.
> 
> Anyway many thanks BP this has proven to be a great recipe to cut my teeth on. Looking forward to a nice big glass tonight. While putting the next batch down.
> 
> On the bottling front I wasn't sure if i should leave any head space as I call a discussion earlier on mead oxidizing, so I have left no head space and completely filled the bottles. Hopefully this has reached a terminal FG and stays 'still' and won't turn into a time bomb....
> 
> 
> Smashin :icon_cheers:



Must have had a few beers last night, retested the FG just now and I get 1.032 giving 11.7% mmmm did I mention this tastes the bomb...


----------



## pdilley

Sounds more like it, just under or at 12% is what I expect.

Huge grin on your first JAO enjoyment session!  

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## McFly

G'day Tanga,

My brother and I had a little tonight and cannot detect any off flavours in the EC-1118 mead.

I'm yet to make up my mind as to whether I like the mead - both are possibly too sweet for me. They remind me of port - just a night cap type of drink. I'll have to hunt around for some dry recipes.

My brother (a mostly-beer drinker and also home brewer) thought the 1118 was nice and my housemate (23, female) loves the bakers JAO. So maybe it's just me.

Now they're finally bottled I'll give them a month or so and taste again.


----------



## brettprevans

McFly said:


> G'day Tanga,
> 
> My brother and I had a little tonight and cannot detect any off flavours in the EC-1118 mead.
> 
> I'm yet to make up my mind as to whether I like the mead - both are possibly too sweet for me. They remind me of port - just a night cap type of drink. I'll have to hunt around for some dry recipes.
> 
> My brother (a mostly-beer drinker and also home brewer) thought the 1118 was nice and my housemate (23, female) loves the bakers JAO. So maybe it's just me.
> 
> Now they're finally bottled I'll give them a month or so and taste again.


U could make a dry version of JAO u just need to use a highly attenuativve yeast. There's nothing overly unfermentable in the recipe. Of course u could cut jack on tge fruit that contributes to perceived sweetness, but in the end it's tge yeast that's goingbto eat away thosebremaining sugars and dry it out. 

If ur wanting a 'session' mead then ur needing to bring that alc % back down and probable more of a braggot style brew. Even tge Vikings wouldn't have been chugging 12% sweet mead. BYO mag may/June 2011 has an article on brewing like a. Viking. Now it's mostly beer related but it shows typical recipes from that time and they are about 5-6%.


----------



## pdilley

Sack mead styles are fortified dessert wines in character. JAO is a sweet sack mead so its in that style. As you can see women love it, which is why as a first Mead recipe having one's significant other enjoy it is a bonus to convincing her to buy more brewing gear and make more mead 

While not the be-all-end-all, the BJCP Style guide for meads is a good place to go to see what sounds to match your preference. Once you have your style sorted out, have a search through the forum here for recipes to suit or if none can be found, ask and we can find something for you.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Mine was dry - I diluted a little more pre-fermentation and used the Lowan's bread yeast. It is very dry, less than 1.000.

Nice though, like a white wine.


----------



## brettprevans

If u keg mead clean ur lines well... My alt is tasting like a honey alt.


----------



## KudaPucat

Ive made a half a dozen JAOs, and I only just racked my first JAO "by the book" exactly as Joe specified. (all others have been trifles with)
And I'm a little disappointed. 
The raisins dropped, but the oranges never showed any inclination to. 
It cleared beautifully after only 15 days
I left it the two months for fruit to drop. 
It's very pretty, has a strong orange bouquet, a pleasant fore taste, an ok mid (a touch hot) and the most astringent repulsive orange pithy bitterness that trails off for minutes after your first sip. 
I'm thinking next time I rack it as soon as it goes crystal. 
Also: my yeast clapped out at least 20 points shy of any of my previous batches. 

I like the recipe, but I'm going to shake it to get better yeast activity, and then rack it once it clears at about 4-6 weeks in the future. 
I know the pithyness will age out, but the others have been drinkable immediately. 

I think every batch is different and needs to be managed differently. This cleared so fast, is I think the problem. The batches that cleared slower are much tastier. 
Also. My brew temp was much lower (it's winter now) than any of my previous JAOs. 

Please critique and comment on my assumptions above.


----------



## pdilley

You have the right sort of idea but perhaps toss around a bit more reasoning around the method chosen.

Racking is normally the technique used with slow fermentations to isolate the liquor from the yeast. For flavouring conpounds you wish to remove, they are place in muslin or similar bags and the liquor is tasted at multiple stages and the bag removed when the brewer considers the flavour addition just right. It may be the oranges you want in the bag and leave the spices, raisins and yeast to continue in the fermentation.

If you look at your ingredients, they are rather stable with not a lot of variability. The items that are more variable from each time you brew are the water, honey, and the oranges.

If you look at the make up of sweet orange peel you have olatile oil, hesperidine, fixed oil, resin, gum, and tannin. Bitter orange adds acrid resin, and two or more additional chemical compounds to the peel. With each growth season, as with hops, you will have differing levels of compounds in the peel. Most bitter varieties of edible foods are usually more hardy or disease resistant and what you don't have control of as a consumer is the crosses or hybrids created between varieties or splicing to root stocks of other plants. So it is luck of the draw at times of what is on the shelf. I also used in season fruit at the end of the natural season when the fruit is over ripe and just at the first part of decline into mush.

I have not had a turbo clear or fast fermentation to date and have not encountered a brew that needs ageing out so do keep notes of ingredients, sources, and seasons you bought them to help build a correlation.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## Tanga

McFly said:


> G'day Tanga,
> 
> My brother and I had a little tonight and cannot detect any off flavours in the EC-1118 mead.
> 
> I'm yet to make up my mind as to whether I like the mead - both are possibly too sweet for me. They remind me of port - just a night cap type of drink. I'll have to hunt around for some dry recipes.
> 
> My brother (a mostly-beer drinker and also home brewer) thought the 1118 was nice and my housemate (23, female) loves the bakers JAO. So maybe it's just me.
> 
> Now they're finally bottled I'll give them a month or so and taste again.



That is good to know (sorry, only just saw this). They say it tastes medicinal (that strange sweetness) rather than off. Hopefully when it mellows out you'll enjoy it more. If it's there. If not, that's good too.


----------



## Margrethe

I don't have a hydrometer- can I trust the JAO recipe to be idiot proof enough to put down without using one? And just trusting that when it goes clear its done?


----------



## KudaPucat

Yes-ish. 
When it's clear, rack it into an airlocked jug, just in case, then bottle later. Bulk ageing is often more convenient anyhow. 

But...
JAO is a small batch. 1 US gal
If you have a set of kitchen scales that reads to 8-10kg
Then you can just weigh the entire thing. 
When it stops getting lighter, you know it's done.


----------



## kjparker

Well, getting towards three weeks in for me, and I am starting to get a dancing raisin. Still cloudy, and the other fruit are still showing no signs of dropping.

I fly out for two weeks tomorrow, will see how it is when I get back... That'll be 5 weeks in the fermenter.


----------



## spaced

Put mine down today, expect an update in a few months time.


----------



## KudaPucat

6 Months old and looking gold!
A bit pithy on the tail though. Orange qty definitely needs to be reduced if you have a lower OG


----------



## pdilley

Very nice photo. You are right on reduced OG, there is much less sweetness to overcome with bitterness and you need to rebalance to compensate or go over bitter.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## McFly

Brewer Pete said:


> While not the be-all-end-all, the BJCP Style guide for meads is a good place to go to see what sounds to match your preference. Once you have your style sorted out, have a search through the forum here for recipes to suit or if none can be found, ask and we can find something for you.



Thanks. I had a look, but ended up ordering a book. My copy of 'The Compleat Meadmaker' arrived today, so I'm sure I'll have a few ideas once I've read it.


----------



## KudaPucat

McFly said:


> Thanks. I had a look, but ended up ordering a book. My copy of 'The Compleat Meadmaker' arrived today, so I'm sure I'll have a few ideas once I've read it.


That's a great book. A bit verby at the start, with all the history of mead and first brewed beverage and all, but as of page 20 it's not put-down-able. 
Stick with it, it's a good read. Not a great book for reference unless you've read it cover to cover first.


----------



## McFly

KudaPucat said:


> That's a great book. A bit verby at the start, with all the history of mead and first brewed beverage and all, but as of page 20 it's not put-down-able.


Heh, given for uni I have to read books with titles like 'Fundamentals of the thermo-fluid sciences' and 'Machine component design' I think this will be an interesting diversion!


----------



## KudaPucat

McFly said:


> Heh, given for uni I have to read books with titles like 'Fundamentals of the thermo-fluid sciences' and 'Machine component design' I think this will be an interesting diversion!


I see. I was _Meant_ to read those books too. 
Yup this book's easier. Plus I actually WANTED to read it which helps


----------



## kjparker

well after just over 4 weeks in the fermenter, this one doesnt look any closer to done.... Fruit still firmly floating.

I do believe it's still going, as the yeast is starting tpo build up a little on the ridges on the side of the bottle, and this wasnt there before i went on holidays. There is still positive pressure on the airlock, so It's just a waiting game for that one....


----------



## Golani51

clueless said:


> well after just over 4 weeks in the fermenter, this one doesnt look any closer to done.... Fruit still firmly floating.
> 
> I do believe it's still going, as the yeast is starting tpo build up a little on the ridges on the side of the bottle, and this wasnt there before i went on holidays. There is still positive pressure on the airlock, so It's just a waiting game for that one....




Mine has been for three months and very clear BUT everything still floating bar the sediment. Not to worry......although I do check on it every bloody day!

Smells citrusy....cannot wait!

The raisins and orange segments do appear to have been tortured though.


----------



## KudaPucat

Golani
I was beginning to believe that the fruit dropping was a myth. But my maye just had 3 of his drop :-(
None of Mine EVER have. 
I'd suggest if it's clear you bottle it. 
At least take a sample and see what it's like. I fear there'll be a strong orange bitter tail on it, and am eager to find out if you do have this. Please keep us informed. Also if it is bitter, this should dull with age. 
On the forum from which the great Joe Mattioli formulated this recipe, it is insisted that you wait until it has cleared OR the fruit has dropped, as apparently I'm not alone in having stubborn oranges.


----------



## Golani51

KudaPucat said:


> Golani
> I was beginning to believe that the fruit dropping was a myth. But my maye just had 3 of his drop :-(
> None of Mine EVER have.
> I'd suggest if it's clear you bottle it.
> At least take a sample and see what it's like. I fear there'll be a strong orange bitter tail on it, and am eager to find out if you do have this. Please keep us informed. Also if it is bitter, this should dull with age.
> On the forum from which the great Joe Mattioli formulated this recipe, it is insisted that you wait until it has cleared OR the fruit has dropped, as apparently I'm not alone in having stubborn oranges.


No rush. It seemed to only stop fermenting a couple weeks ago (meaning no mass of bubbles forming). I'll leave it for a couple weeks still. Better safe than sorry. At least the bloomin' raisins could fall!!


----------



## Calais_5sp

I just bottled mine exactly as per recipy yesterday after 3 months fermenting. Fruit diddnt drop but the cinimon stick did but was crystal clear.
Not exactly what i expected it to taste like, but i dont think its quite right.
Has a slight orange bitter taste and not very sweet at all. I used a IGA honey and Naval orange and but im guessing it was too bitter to start with.
Will be trying it again with a different honey and a nicer orange from a fruit shop and see how it goes.


----------



## Golani51

Can you go a little more into how it tasted please.

R


----------



## TmC

Mine is over two months old and tasting pretty good. The orange was probably a bit overpowering but otherwise very nice for ingredients. Have put down another few batches with less orange.


----------



## KudaPucat

TmC said:


> Mine is over two months old and tasting pretty good. The orange was probably a bit overpowering but otherwise very nice for ingredients. Have put down another few batches with less orange.



Do you mean the orange flavour, or the pithy bitterness imparted by the orange?
Reducing the orange could well result in a sticky cloyingly sweet brew, so beware


----------



## TmC

The actual orange flavour, i have 15L of the real JAO so im not worried if this 3.8 doesn't turn out.


----------



## KudaPucat

I see.
Most of the flavour is in the zest... Perhaps with some experimentation, you could zest the orange, leaving that out, and only add some of the pith for biterness.
Maybe zest an eighth, remove the flesh, then put the flesh of the whole orange, and the one zested bit of pith in. This should dramatically reduce the orange flavour, whilst keeping the bittering and acid. This may be too much bottering, but I just don't know.


----------



## TmC

I dont mind, i have way too much mead for myself so i dont think i will be making an more for a while


----------



## KudaPucat

TmC said:


> I dont mind, i have way too much mead for myself so i dont think i will be making an more for a while



so envious right now :-(
I have heaps of mead, according to my wife, only 9/10 of it is not finished aging, and wont be for some time :-(
So I definitely don't have enough to take a bottle out with me, or even have a bottle a week. :-(


----------



## kaspa07

Im realy excited this is my first attempt at Mead I put it down about a week ago. It took a while for the fermentation to start but now its bubling away nicely

Below is the recepie I used I cant wait untill its ready :drinks: 







12lt water
5lt Honey
5 Cloves
5 Oranges cut into 8ths
CY17 yeast
Malic Acid

I was originaly going to use 15lt of water but my new fermenter was a bit small I figured there would not be enough headspace in the fermenter.

Im still unsure how to read my new Hydrometer anyhow the level it showed was 15(thats the lowest number writen on the side)


----------



## KudaPucat

Tom.k said:


> Im realy excited this is my first attempt at Mead I put it down about a week ago. It took a while for the fermentation to start but now its bubling away nicely
> 
> Below is the recepie I used I cant wait untill its ready :drinks:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 12lt water
> 5lt Honey
> 5 Cloves
> 5 Oranges cut into 8ths
> CY17 yeast
> Malic Acid
> 
> I was originaly going to use 15lt of water but my new fermenter was a bit small I figured there would not be enough headspace in the fermenter.
> 
> Im still unsure how to read my new Hydrometer anyhow the level it showed was 15(thats the lowest number writen on the side)



Tom, it's better to use weight of honey as a measure, it takes some of the error out of guesstimations. Especially if you include total volume.
This may be a bit clovey, but luckily spice flavours will dissipate with time if you don't like it.
5lt honey = about 7.25kg
total volume = 17 litres, total weight = 19kg 19/17 = SG= 1.13
it's possible if you had a very low water content honey, that would could have an SG of 1.15, where many hydrometers drop the 1. from the front, which may be how you got 15. Take a photo of your hydrometer and upload it, it wont be hard for us to see how it works and help you out.

This is quite a heavy must, but CY17 will tolerate up to 15% so it will probably drop 115 points, leaving you with an FG around 1.035, which is very sweet, but not unpalatable if well balanced. I'm not sure how much acid you added, but you may need to add acid or tannin after.
It's generally a bad idea to add acid up front in meads, as honey is quite acidic already, and during fermentation the pH drops. This can cause your yeast stress and stuck ferments, so don't add any more until it's finished, and then I'd wait for it to age a bit. This is only an issue with mead. Many a wine maker will insist you add acid up front, ok with wine, not with mead.
Unfortunately I feel this will require some aging. The good thing is you made a fair whack, so you can take samplers along the way ;-)
Good luck, and keep us posted.


----------



## SuiCIDER

I have made many meads but have never tried this. I have a 1 gal version on it's way (started it on Wednesday last week). I used a more harsh honey than I normally would, but will backsweeten with a light honey like red ironbark/yellowbox. Smells pretty great, used one of my wine yeasts and have been adding nutrients and will be until the 1/3rd sugar break. All smooth sailing from here!


----------



## Margrethe

Lets try that again. 

As raisins are technically the same as sultanas- just different grapes- are sultanas suitable replacements for raisins? Just wondered coz the kidlet has sultanas in the cupboard for her lunches, and instead of buying a half kilo box of raisins to put down one batch of JAO, I was wondering if I could just use them instead. 

What say you Jao'ing experts?


----------



## KudaPucat

Margrethe said:


> Lets try that again.
> 
> As raisins are technically the same as sultanas- just different grapes- are sultanas suitable replacements for raisins? Just wondered coz the kidlet has sultanas in the cupboard for her lunches, and instead of buying a half kilo box of raisins to put down one batch of JAO, I was wondering if I could just use them instead.
> 
> What say you Jao'ing experts?



there aren't really enough raisins to impart a flavour, so no, there's no difference.
I've made many a JAO with sultanas, because I was too lazy to drive to the shops for just that one item.
Go for it.

I think maybe it's because it's an American recipe. I don't think they really use sultanans over there... I certainly never see them cited in recipes. Always raisins, or sometimes craisins now... Maybe it's due to growing climate.


----------



## SuiCIDER

Raisins aren't used in this recipe for their flavour, they are used as a substitute for nutrient. I left them out because the only ones I can buy are the sunbeam ones, and they seem to leave a slick of oil on the top of my meads without a good rinse in warm water.


----------



## KudaPucat

SuiCIDER said:


> Raisins aren't used in this recipe for their flavour, they are used as a substitute for nutrient. I left them out because the only ones I can buy are the sunbeam ones, and they seem to leave a slick of oil on the top of my meads without a good rinse in warm water.



sorry I was unclear, yes you are correct.

I was trying to say the only difference between sultanas and raisins is taste, so as there are insufficient to make a flavour change tot he mead, the type of dried grape you use is irrelevant, because they are indeed used as yeast fodder.

Thanks for clarifying.


----------



## Golani51

KudaPucat said:


> sorry I was unclear, yes you are correct.
> 
> I was trying to say the only difference between sultanas and raisins is taste, so as there are insufficient to make a flavour change tot he mead, the type of dried grape you use is irrelevant, because they are indeed used as yeast fodder.
> 
> Thanks for clarifying.




I am very likely incorrect here but I believe the raisins have a higher sugar content and thus more for the yeast. Adding a few more would likely provide a balance.


----------



## KudaPucat

Golani, this is irrelevant.
As the raisins are used as yeast fodder, they are not supplying sugar (that's the honey's job) they are supplying free nitrogen for the yeast to metabolise to aid in multiplication and aerobic consumption of the sugar.
The sugar content of 25 raisins is negligable.


----------



## brettprevans

I disagree and thinkraisins impart flavour. small background flavour. complexity etc. now yes they may provide nitrogen etc but raisins have extra flavour over sultanas. but do what you like. its not going to hurt.


----------



## Margrethe

Wow- who knew sultanas vs raisins would cause such debate! 

I ended up caving, had a little extra shopping money this week, so bought a kg of raisins. Thats a little overkill of course, but I plan to make a few brews- got some friends who're interested too- and we'll eat the rest..might see if any of the recipes in Merc's cookbook need some LOL! 

Will post once I've got them going!  Thanks for the help!


----------



## Golani51

My mead has been fermenting exactly 3 months and 3 days. It clarified a month or so ago. I just checked it and 90% of the fruit has fallen suddenly. Another day and I will bottle. I wonder what makes it all fall at the same moment.

R


----------



## pk.sax

Golani51 said:


> I wonder what makes it all fall at the same moment.
> 
> R



Telepathy


----------



## Golani51

practicalfool said:


> Telepathy



Maybe it was your vegan influence?


----------



## kjparker

almost 2 months on, mine is showing no sign of clearing, nor the fruiit dropping! It's been at a stable 18deg the whole time (i'd struglle to get it any higher anyway), but things seem to have stalled.

Should I be concerned?


----------



## KudaPucat

clueless said:


> almost 2 months on, mine is showing no sign of clearing, nor the fruiit dropping! It's been at a stable 18deg the whole time (i'd struglle to get it any higher anyway), but things seem to have stalled.
> 
> Should I be concerned?



nah, it's 2 months plus or minus a week (so says the recipe) but I've had it wait longer... just be patient.
If it gets unbearable, you can rack it. It often assists with clearing.


----------



## kjparker

KudaPucat said:


> nah, it's 2 months plus or minus a week (so says the recipe) but I've had it wait longer... just be patient.
> If it gets unbearable, you can rack it. It often assists with clearing.



It's all good, was just wondering if I should be concerned. It can take as long as it likes (within reason).......


----------



## Golani51

clueless said:


> It's all good, was just wondering if I should be concerned. It can take as long as it likes (within reason).......


I chucked mine in a cupboard. It sat more or less at 19deg all the time. It cleared at around 2 onths and did so overnight. The fruit drop was on the ball at the generally expected 3 months (plus 3 days).
Leave it, forget about it, and enjoy. Nothing you can do about it either way.

To be enjoyed tonight!


----------



## pk.sax

Golani51 said:


> Maybe it was your vegan influence?



Beer is vegan (ewww....) ... look up the rheinsgebot!! - Barley, Hops and Water only 

PS, I'll have mine with a hunk of cheese, ty. Make it blue cheese.


----------



## kjparker

practicalfool said:


> Beer is vegan (ewww....) ... look up the rheinsgebot!! - Barley, Hops and Water only
> 
> PS, I'll have mine with a hunk of cheese, ty. Make it blue cheese.


Depends if finings, and what they were are used!

Use gelatine, or fish finings, and it's no longer vegan!


----------



## pk.sax

clueless said:


> Depends if finings, and what they were are used!
> 
> Use gelatine, or fish finings, and it's no longer vegan!


Blasphemy!!!

Just coincidentally ...



Birkdale Bob said:


> The back of my t shirt says
> "beer is technically a vegetarian meal"
> so it must be good for you!



^ I want that shirt!

OK, I'll quit taking this :icon_offtopic:

I do want to make some mead sometime... Even got the sweet mead yeast.. just gotta pluck up the courage and .. well, courage really.


----------



## KudaPucat

practicalfool said:


> Blasphemy!!!
> 
> Just coincidentally ...
> 
> 
> 
> ^ I want that shirt!
> 
> OK, I'll quit taking this :icon_offtopic:
> 
> I do want to make some mead sometime... Even got the sweet mead yeast.. just gotta pluck up the courage and .. well, courage really.



Be careful and gentle with the sweet mead yeast, it's prone to sticking. Watch you ph and your temperature. Make sure you hydrate and use of SNA is advised.

But then, as this is a JAO thread, it's still Way :icon_offtopic: Sorry...
So let's not talk of any more finisng, racking, shaking, stirring, wine yeasts etc, and focus on the bread yeast and raisins ;-)


----------



## TmC

What is everyone bottling they're mead in? Mine is nearly 3 months old so going to bottle soon and was going to use wine bottles but i can hardly drink 750ml of mead in one sitting. As it doesn't need carbonating, how long will it store in an open bottle of wine? If not i will just bottle in beer bottles.


----------



## brettprevans

TmC said:


> What is everyone bottling they're mead in? Mine is nearly 3 months old so going to bottle soon and was going to use wine bottles but i can hardly drink 750ml of mead in one sitting. As it doesn't need carbonating, how long will it store in an open bottle of wine? If not i will just bottle in beer bottles.


kegged to carb most of it. then into 750ml bottles. i have a few stubbies but 99% are 750ml. I can easily drink 750ml of mine in a sitting. mine is slightly less sweet than sack mead though. so maybe do a mix and that way you can share a 750ml and cut down on the amount of bottling you have to do


----------



## KudaPucat

citymorgue2 said:


> kegged to carb most of it. then into 750ml bottles. i have a few stubbies but 99% are 750ml. I can easily drink 750ml of mine in a sitting. mine is slightly less sweet than sack mead though. so maybe do a mix and that way you can share a 750ml and cut down on the amount of bottling you have to do



I bottle in Pint and half pint bottles mostly. Magner's Pear cidre bottles show the mead off well.
I cap cos it's a lot cheaper than cork, but I will bottle some as gifts or 'take over for dinner' bottles. I use novatwists on the twist tops, and 'Port Corks' on the corrk finish, I then usually wax seal the corks, as they're not so grippy or deep as normal corks.
(all this because I haven't bought a corker yet)

I save every 375ml wine bottle I come across for this reason, they also come mostly in flint, so you can sho off the mead.


----------



## Golani51

I got these little-ish clear wine bottles from the LHBS in Oakliegh. They are a dollar or so each and use little wine caps that twist on. I have done this with rice wine but not yet the mead (will bottle tomorrow most likely). Looks good and hopefully will taste good too. Otherwise if mediocre, I will just use normal stubbies and save the cash for another batch.


----------



## Golani51

I got these little-ish clear wine bottles from the LHBS in Oakliegh. They are a dollar or so each and use little wine caps that twist on. I have done this with rice wine but not yet the mead (will bottle tomorrow most likely). Looks good and hopefully will taste good too. Otherwise if mediocre, I will just use normal stubbies and save the cash for another batch.


----------



## kjparker

ok, had a look at mine last night. It's got a bit clearer! I can definietly see through it when I shine a torch through, where I couldnt before! The raisins have all dropped, the orange is still floating however.

Another week or two and I reckon it might be done!

Is there any point aging this mead? Or is it a case of bottle it, then drink it?


----------



## Golani51

It might be worth mentioning that even if the fruit drops, it can then begin to float again, then drop, then float.....you will think you are nuts and seeing things. My assumption is that once fallen, it is done.


----------



## fcmcg

Mine was 3 months , also like golani..
I left mine on the kitchen bench , and it made a good talking point...
I will say in the last 2 weeks , raisins danced a jig and then 2 of the orange quaters dropped...
It was pretty clear when i bottled...
I bottled into a mixture of stubbies and long necks....
Gonna make a nice drop on Christmas day , i reckon !
Cheers
Ferg


----------



## brettprevans

clueless said:


> Is there any point aging this mead? Or is it a case of bottle it, then drink it?



did you bother to read the first posts that set out this style of mead and what to do with it?


----------



## kjparker

citymorgue2 said:


> did you read the first posts that set out this style of mead and what to do with it?



I did. It said it wasnt necessary, however it didnt say if it was pointless!


----------



## brettprevans

Brewer Pete said:


> ..... Like any mead if you leave this one to age (although only need 6 months) then it just keeps tasting better... .


from the first post. seems self explainitory to me.


----------



## kjparker

citymorgue2 said:


> from the first post. seems self explainitory to me.


jeez did you get out on the wrong side of the bed this morning?


----------



## brettprevans

clueless said:


> jeez did you get out on the wrong side of the bed this morning?


you asked a question that had the info in the OP. i pointed it out. get over it. 
FWIW I aged mine 6 months as per the OP.


----------



## KudaPucat

citymorgue2 said:


> you asked a question that had the info in the OP. i pointed it out. get over it.
> FWIW I aged mine 6 months as per the OP.


+1
but some further information:
Younger than a month can be really nice, or really bitter, it depends on so many factors that it just comes down to luck.
aging to 6 months results well.
I've never had one last longer than 6 months, no matter how much I brew, everybody just finds it too tasty.
I imagine it would keep getting smoother, but BP says the spices start to diminish at 6 months. Personally I've seen the spices noticeably diminish between the third and fourth month, so I guess he means that they'll have diminished too much by 6 months.
Hang on to a bottle if you want and tell us how it turns out.


----------



## Brewer Greg

Hey everyone,

I have never brewed anything before and I love mead and thought it would be cool to give this a shot. I am not sure I have done it right as alot of the honey has settled back at the bottom and it hasn't mixed fully through. I did mix it with hot water and I shook the absolute hell out of the container.

Have I done something wrong? Did I not use enough hot water to mix it trough? I just used like a cup worth to it was very runny.

Any feed back would be great. I hope it is ok and will still work


----------



## KudaPucat

Ok honey at the bottom is np. It's called BDY I think, for bottom dwelling yeast. The yeasties will eat that up, just sit tight. 
You used only a cup of honey? Thats a fair deviation from the recipe. In all probability it will finish up dry (and bloody horrible) add another 3 cups at least. 
Tell me: did you follow the rest of the recipe? Orange, 3.8 litres etc?
Please detail your entire procedure, it's safer that way if you want advice.


----------



## Brewer Greg

No I followed the recipe fully, I just added one cup of warm water to the 1.6kg of honey. I am thinking I should of used more now. Thanks for your advice. Should I just leave it or should i stir it after the foaming subsides?


----------



## Synthetase

Leave it. The honey will dissolve eventually. I take it from your comment on foam that the yeast have kicked on and are fermenting well? If so, it's all good. Put it away out of sight so you won't be tempted to keep fiddling with it 

Good mead takes time.


----------



## brettprevans

Brewer Greg said:


> No I followed the recipe fully, I just added one cup of warm water to the 1.6kg of honey. I am thinking I should of used more now. Thanks for your advice. Should I just leave it or should i stir it after the foaming subsides?


Not enough water. I cbf working out calcs for.u but 250ml of water to 1.6kg water is too little. Go back to the original recipe and work out how much water u need fir 1.6kg of honey

Edit the original recipe is for 1.6kg honey. U need enough water to make it up to 3.8L otherwise the og of the mead will be toi high


----------



## kaspa07

KudaPucat said:


> Tom, it's better to use weight of honey as a measure, it takes some of the error out of guesstimations. Especially if you include total volume.
> This may be a bit clovey, but luckily spice flavours will dissipate with time if you don't like it.
> 5lt honey = about 7.25kg
> total volume = 17 litres, total weight = 19kg 19/17 = SG= 1.13
> it's possible if you had a very low water content honey, that would could have an SG of 1.15, where many hydrometers drop the 1. from the front, which may be how you got 15. Take a photo of your hydrometer and upload it, it wont be hard for us to see how it works and help you out.
> 
> This is quite a heavy must, but CY17 will tolerate up to 15% so it will probably drop 115 points, leaving you with an FG around 1.035, which is very sweet, but not unpalatable if well balanced. I'm not sure how much acid you added, but you may need to add acid or tannin after.
> It's generally a bad idea to add acid up front in meads, as honey is quite acidic already, and during fermentation the pH drops. This can cause your yeast stress and stuck ferments, so don't add any more until it's finished, and then I'd wait for it to age a bit. This is only an issue with mead. Many a wine maker will insist you add acid up front, ok with wine, not with mead.
> Unfortunately I feel this will require some aging. The good thing is you made a fair whack, so you can take samplers along the way ;-)
> Good luck, and keep us posted.





Thanx for the tips Kuda
Sory it was 5kg honey.. not 5lt
Anyhow I'll be bottling it Tomorow
The hydrometer has not moved for almost a week now
look at the pic to see where my hydrometer is at
The taste at the moment is great its very acidic and herbal at the moment, its sweet but not too sweet, just what I was aiming for realy
Hopefuly the acidity will taper off with age
and woha!!! its strong Packs a punch, I think its going to be a good drink over ice for summer :chug:


----------



## kaspa07

Or maybe I should Rack it into a secondary for a few more weeks to clear up :huh:


----------



## Brewer Greg

citymorgue2 said:


> Not enough water. I cbf working out calcs for.u but 250ml of water to 1.6kg water is too little. Go back to the original recipe and work out how much water u need fir 1.6kg of honey
> 
> Edit the original recipe is for 1.6kg honey. U need enough water to make it up to 3.8L otherwise the og of the mead will be toi high



Ok this is what I meant. I added one cup of warm water to the honey to dissolve it(approx). I then followed the rest of the recipe and then filled the demijohn to 3.8L. I think I needed more water to dissolve it properly as the honey started to settle back to the bottom even after I shook the hell out of it.

Thanks for all your replies, I do appreciate it.

cheers mate


----------



## brettprevans

Brewer Greg said:


> Ok this is what I meant. I added one cup of warm water to the honey to dissolve it(approx). I then followed the rest of the recipe and then filled the demijohn to 3.8L. I think I needed more water to dissolve it properly as the honey started to settle back to the bottom even after I shook the hell out of it.
> 
> Thanks for all your replies, I do appreciate it.
> 
> cheers mate


Ah ok. U can add a bit morre if ur worried.the fact thst it didnt dissolve isn't an issue as the yeast will find the sugar. U need to use hot water if u wanted to dissolvr it. Dont stress about it.


----------



## Brewer Greg

citymorgue2 said:


> Ah ok. U can add a bit morre if ur worried.the fact thst it didnt dissolve isn't an issue as the yeast will find the sugar. U need to use hot water if u wanted to dissolvr it. Dont stress about it.



Thanks mate. Hey I have a quick question is there a better type of honey to use? Has anyone found a particular honey they really enjoy using?


----------



## brettprevans

Brewer Greg said:


> Thanks mate. Hey I have a quick question is there a better type of honey to use? Has anyone found a particular honey they really enjoy using?


Use wbat u can get ur hands on. I think JAO kends its self to lighter honey styled like orange blossum. But so long as its not a really hard honey like eucultptus etc it should be fine


----------



## Margrethe

Okay, so I only have Tandaco Dry yeast in my cupboard. It has 7g sachets in it. Do I use a 7g sachet, or do I just put 1 tspn of yeast in as per the recipe? 

I had a hunt, but couldn't find an answer elsewhere.


----------



## Golani51

quick answer....follow recipe. No changes....everything balanced as required...etc etc....


----------



## KudaPucat

Tom.k said:


> Or maybe I should Rack it into a secondary for a few more weeks to clear up :huh:



Yeah, don't bottle it. It will continue to drop sediment for a while, and you don't want that in your bottles.
The mead will be better if bulk aged too, as it removes the variance you may experience between bottles, and it stops you trying to drink it, whilst still allowing small samples to be taken.


----------



## kjparker

Well finanly after about 3 months my mead is ready... At least it was... DOH!

I went down to my shed last night and looked at my mead, thought, what the heck is that refelction... realised I could see right through it!

Carefully (obviously not carefully enough) carried it up to the house to bottle, and by the time I got there I had stirred it up into a cloudy mess!

I have it sitting in a corner now, hopefully it will settle down again, so I can bottle it either tonight or on the weekend....


----------



## biggo

clueless said:


> Well finanly after about 3 months my mead is ready... At least it was... DOH!
> 
> I went down to my shed last night and looked at my mead, thought, what the heck is that refelction... realised I could see right through it!
> 
> Carefully (obviously not carefully enough) carried it up to the house to bottle, and by the time I got there I had stirred it up into a cloudy mess!
> 
> I have it sitting in a corner now, hopefully it will settle down again, so I can bottle it either tonight or on the weekend....



If your happy to wait longer I suggest racking again  I didn't bottle mine until the 10 month mark and then I let it age for another 5


----------



## kjparker

biggo said:


> If your happy to wait longer I suggest racking again  I didn't bottle mine until the 10 month mark and then I let it age for another 5


I havent racked at all... It just cleared on it's own!

I'd like to bottle it as soon as it's ready!


----------



## TmC

It shouldn't take too long to settle down i dont think, i did the same and mine cleared up in about a fortnight. Might have been sooner but didnt check


----------



## KudaPucat

Bread yeast can be a bit 'fluffy'
If I have far to move it, or I'm particularly caring about a batch, I'll move it to where it needs to be racked 24 hrs prior to racking, this is usually enough time.
My problem has always been getting permission from SWMBO to have a bottle of mead sit undisturbed on the bench over night!

My mate did similar, but didn't think he needed to explain fully to his wife...
He calls me over to assist with racking (it was his first brew ever) and when I get there it's milky!
I gave him a serve about what 'clear' actually means, only to find him as stunned as me!
Unbeknownst to him, his wife decided the bench needed cleaning, and "Just moved it a little bit" (By simply pushing it across the bench)

It didn't take much convincing next time to get him to rack it in the shed, where he brews it :-D


----------



## kaspa07

KudaPucat said:


> Yeah, don't bottle it. It will continue to drop sediment for a while, and you don't want that in your bottles.
> The mead will be better if bulk aged too, as it removes the variance you may experience between bottles, and it stops you trying to drink it, whilst still allowing small samples to be taken.




yea I racked into seccondary tell you what its tasting realy good, a few more months in the seccondary and its going to be ready just in time for summer I think(hope fingers crossed)

Finnaly got my mead recepie book delivered been doing some reading up, Thinking of adding some oak chips into it...but its probably to late now


----------



## KudaPucat

Tom.k said:


> yea I racked into seccondary tell you what its tasting realy good, a few more months in the seccondary and its going to be ready just in time for summer I think(hope fingers crossed)
> 
> Finnaly got my mead recepie book delivered been doing some reading up, Thinking of adding some oak chips into it...but its probably to late now



It's never too late, but if you do, it will require MUCH more aging, and could well become a little too astringent.
Why is it you want to add oak? It should be pretty well balanced. Make a traditional, and oak some of it... doing a side by side test will give you an idea.


----------



## spaced

Hi Guys,

Rookie question. This has been fermenting for about 3 months, everything has dropped out fruit and what not. How do I get it from the water bottle it fermented in, into bottles without oxidisation? I've got some tube from the home brew store, but when I connected it with my bottling wand it wasn't a perfect seal.


----------



## felten

You have to have a good seal for the siphon to work. 

I used a short length of surgical tubing and started a siphon with a syringe, then stuck it into the bottom of the bottles and pinched it to control the flow. I had a helping hand though, doing it by myself might have been difficult.


----------



## TmC

Bottled mine today, just over 4 months, left the other batch to carry on for a bit longer to see if there is a difference. Next im looking at going for a straight mead with some ageing possibilities. Looking at the Chubby Bat Mead recipe.


----------



## depatbrewing

well i took this recipe and ramped it up on the honey adding almost two kilos slicing the orange finer, what i got was about 1.200 starting grav im hoping for a low gravity finish they're bout to finish in october im extremely excited, from what ive been reading theres tons of info for beer but does any one know where i can find different cider and mead recipes though the ones i have found include things i cant find or dont understand some one help lol


----------



## dogger

Thanks Brewer Pete for bringing this recipe and expertise to AHB. Finally in the Bottle Saturday AM (about 3 1/2 months to clear for me), and a good dose out Saturday PM to assist with the celebration of the Supercats. Both liquor and Supercats memorable; to be repeated.


----------



## kjparker

clueless said:


> I havent racked at all... It just cleared on it's own!
> 
> I'd like to bottle it as soon as it's ready!



I racked it that night into another demijohn, and it's been a week since then. I poured the last inch of murky liquid into a glass, mixed in a teaspoon of gelatin I had disolved in a little water, and stuck it in the fridge. I now have about a cm of beautifully clear mead sitting on top. Half wondering if I should gelatin the rest of it....

It's not as cloudy as it was, and is dropping sediment, so I'm hoping that given enough time it will clear again. Any guesses as to how long this would take? It is just sitting in the kitchen now, on top of the cupboard. Considering racking it again to try and help....


----------



## KudaPucat

clueless said:


> I racked it that night into another demijohn, and it's been a week since then. I poured the last inch of murky liquid into a glass, mixed in a teaspoon of gelatin I had disolved in a little water, and stuck it in the fridge. I now have about a cm of beautifully clear mead sitting on top. Half wondering if I should gelatin the rest of it....
> 
> It's not as cloudy as it was, and is dropping sediment, so I'm hoping that given enough time it will clear again. Any guesses as to how long this would take? It is just sitting in the kitchen now, on top of the cupboard. Considering racking it again to try and help....



If it cleared once, it will clear again. You've removed all fruit and spices, so letting it sit now will not be detrimental.
Just wait. It could take a couple of weeks yet... be VERY gentle when moving it ;-)

I remember one of my meads, was semi clear, and I tested it by shaking it up...
two things occurred:
1 it dropped 5 points more than the 'control' bottle that was not shaken
2 it took 18 days longer to clear fully than the control bottle.

my test circumstances are different than yours, but maybe it will give you an idea.


----------



## kjparker

KudaPucat said:


> If it cleared once, it will clear again. You've removed all fruit and spices, so letting it sit now will not be detrimental.
> Just wait. It could take a couple of weeks yet... be VERY gentle when moving it ;-)
> 
> I remember one of my meads, was semi clear, and I tested it by shaking it up...
> two things occurred:
> 1 it dropped 5 points more than the 'control' bottle that was not shaken
> 2 it took 18 days longer to clear fully than the control bottle.
> 
> my test circumstances are different than yours, but maybe it will give you an idea.



It's definitely getting clearer, just taking it's time. At the rate it's going, it will probably be another week or so before it's clear.

Serves me right for not being carefull enough in moving it!


----------



## kjparker

clueless said:


> It's definitely getting clearer, just taking it's time. At the rate it's going, it will probably be another week or so before it's clear.
> 
> Serves me right for not being carefull enough in moving it!


Had a look at it again last night, and it's almost clear again. I cant read through it yet, but I can see through. Another week or so I reckon....


----------



## Margrethe

Five weeks, and my mead is clear enough to read print through it nicely. 

No fruit dropping, but there's a nice white clag at the bottom yeasties graveyard. 

Gonna try it today (when its not 6.30am) and see if she's ready for bottling! If it is, its time to get some more on the go!


----------



## KudaPucat

It'll be right for bottling. 
Chances are it won't be as clear as you think, so there will be a tiny sediment in the bottle. 
Just bottle it, and don't shake your next one!!


----------



## pk.sax

Q: bottling meads, ur not carbonating at all are you?

PS: I've been looking at buying some of these instead of the traditional demijohn just for the wider mouth and good seal I get with the o-ring on them (I have smaller ones for pickles, tea and kitchen jars). 100 bucks and free delivery.
http://m.kitchenwaredirect.com.au/Bormioli...ar-Herm-5L.html


----------



## KudaPucat

practicalfool said:


> Q: bottling meads, ur not carbonating at all are you?
> 
> PS: I've been looking at buying some of these instead of the traditional demijohn just for the wider mouth and good seal I get with the o-ring on them (I have smaller ones for pickles, tea and kitchen jars). 100 bucks and free delivery.
> http://m.kitchenwaredirect.com.au/Bormioli...ar-Herm-5L.html



I'm sorry, $100? Huh? the link says $15. I hope you're getting more than one for that price!
The brewshop near me also has 20 and 3 litre demis with 100mm mouths for not much more than $1/litre

Regarding carbonating... who are you asking?
I've carbonated meads, both naturally and force. I think a JAO is nice carbonated, it takes some of the sugar off, without highlighting the bitterness.


----------



## pk.sax

Ah, yes - 15 bucks each but free delivery anywhere if total order is $100. Works out quite neatly for us far northerners  usually, 5Lt demis go for 12.50-15 + swing cap @ brewshops. I.e. If any of them around here can bother opening for longer on even 1 day a week.

Re carbonating, yeah I was asking in general. I was getting nervous with all the talk of 'I shook it and it dropped another x points'. I've asked someone who knows someone who has hives if I can get some honey off him when he next raids them. Just preparing in general.


----------



## kjparker

Bottled my mead on Saturday, took it over to a mates place. It was a real hit!

I'll be making a bigger batch of this one!


----------



## ShredMaster

Wow. 

Today I actually read almost all of the current 29 pages of this (slow day at work, meh). As mind-numbing as it sounds, I came home and found myself at the end of a lengthy explanation to the Mrs about how I somehow managed to come home from work (on a motorbike) with a couple of kilos of honey and a bunch of fruit and spices with this wicked look in my eye... :super: 

Sanitised what was required, chopped what needed to be and stuffed it all into a couple of different bottles on hand: 2 x 1.5L glass jars and 1 x 2L plastic bottle. Whacked the yeast in and am currently scouting locations to leave these suckers for a few months without being juggled around and trying to keep them somewhere near a decent temp. 

I'm sure it will work well, probably a bit "hot" on the alcohol side due to temps but it will still make a nice nightcap drop for Xmas time I reckon. 

Thanx BP for starting the thread which ended up enticing me to explore this avenue!! Now I'm actually reading up on meads and learning even MORE about how fermentation works. 


Cheers!!
Shred.


----------



## KudaPucat

practicalfool said:


> Ah, yes - 15 bucks each but free delivery anywhere if total order is $100. Works out quite neatly for us far northerners  usually, 5Lt demis go for 12.50-15 + swing cap @ brewshops. I.e. If any of them around here can bother opening for longer on even 1 day a week.
> 
> Re carbonating, yeah I was asking in general. I was getting nervous with all the talk of 'I shook it and it dropped another x points'. I've asked someone who knows someone who has hives if I can get some honey off him when he next raids them. Just preparing in general.



Shaking during ferment will have it drop further. 
Shakingafter clear MAY start the yeast up again. 
Racking or bottling can start the yeast up, but as your leaving 99.9999% of the colony behind, it's unlikely. 
If you observe sanitisation procedures and the yeast is past it's tolerance it won't start up again. None of mine have. 
If you let in another yeast, it could spell trouble. 
But all in all, if a JAO has cleared, she's ready to bottle. I've never had one restart, but I have heard of it happening. 
Don't worry, just brew... Mead is much more forgiving than beer. 

On another note... How are you planning on airlocking those jars?


----------



## pk.sax

Clingwrap + rubber band and let the jar lid down on the cling wrap without latching it close. Get rid of clingwrap and latch close to age in bulk, siphon with sterilized silicone aquarium line. I suppose I should siphon and rack to a new jar to age....


----------



## blakie21

Just another success post haha. Put this together 2 months ago, after killing myself watching it clear but nothing drop I crash chilled (had seem some raisins rising and falling )

Everything fell out and I bottled today, had a sneaky morning sample and holy crap. This is the best mead I have ever tasted (doesn't mean much since store bought stuff sucked). 

I urge everyone new to brewing in any form to try this! The only hard part is leaving it alone for 2 months


----------



## Margrethe

My brews been clear for a few weeks, but was really...carbonated and tasted like bad white wine. 

No fruit had dropped on tasting, but now the fruit is dropping slowly- had a cinnamon drop first, now an orange quarter. 

Its been down now for 8 weeks all up. 

Should I be doing anything I'm not currently?


----------



## pk.sax

I found 20-25C on the first page and didn't look past page1.

I have it all ready to give this a go now  Only thing I'm really concerned about is the temperatures.

My temperatures here are more like 30-35C all the time. I can manage to keep it cool for a whole week by putting the demi in an esky and a few packs of ice gel or something, but cannot do that as a long term thing.

Also, waiting for it to finish past the initial it in the demi - is it OK to bung it in the keg fridge @ 4-5C or am I better off keeping it in a warm dark cupboard?

I got plenty of some really nice tasting honey off a beekeeper here, dunno what variety but it tastes great!


----------



## Ravvin

Hi all, first post here.
I read through all the posts in this thread and decided to give mead a try. Since I only have 30L fermenters, I made up my brew using the scaled up recipe listed here, but I left an orange and a half out as the ones I got seemed to have a strong bitter pith, and I really prefer the sweeter drinks.
I couldn't find Fleishmann's Bread Yeast down here and had to use Lowans Bread Yeast. Possibly, this is where the problem lies.
I used local Clover honey, which I was told was mostly from Clover, but also anything else flowering that the bees found. I tasted it and it's the same clover taste I have been slathering on my toast for years, so its all good.
I started the batch on 13 October and the SG after 2hrs of settling down was 1.130.
It happily bubbled away for the next 3 weeks or so at about 30 to 40 bpm. (Bloops per Minute, technical term).
After this it slowed down and for the last 2 weeks it seems to have stopped or dropped to around 1 bpm.
The SG has been steady on 1.024 since 21 November, but the fruit and spices haven't dropped. I havent actually seem it bubble lately, but after taking the samples to check SG I have noticed that it repressurises the airlock after about 15mins. 
There is a thick layer of silt in the bottom of the fermenter but I can take samples through the tap to check SG if I discard the first squirt that comes through. I tasted this the second time I checked the SQ and almost hurled. Makes you wonder how anything that tastes so disgusting can make good tasting bread. Anyway, once I realised I had to ditch the first yeast-filled squirt, it was actually not bad tasting.
Keeping the temperature down in the fermenter isn't a problem down here. We have just started getting those heatwave days of 21C here and the fermenter lives in an old fridge in the back room that never gets sun. I have an aquarium heater in the fermenter, set to 19 and from tests I have found that it seems to hold at about 20 to 22.
Just to list:
13/10/11 SG 1.130
6/11/11 SG 1.030
21/11/11 SG 1.024
7/12/11 SG 1.024
19/12/11 SG 1.024

I have no idea how to work out the alcohol content but I can tell you it leaves a warm burn in your throat after drinking the SG sample.
It worries me that nothing seems to be happening yet the fruit hasn't dropped. The fermenter is opaque plastic so I can't see how clear it is. 
I'm tempted to run it through a very fine filter to remove any yeast stuff when I bottle it as it really tastes foul if you don't get it all out when you take the sample.
Should I be worried or do anything, or just leave it and hope it's all good in there?


----------



## kaspa07

Ravvin,

Im no expert only have one mead to my name so far, but I would rack it into another fermenter and let it settle for a few weeks, this will get rid of most od the crap on the bottom. I ended doing that twice before I bottled.


----------



## nuggetron

hey
ive read the first 5 pages of this forum, awesome read
pretty sure im gunna have a stab at it
firstly i have no demijohn, only the brewing barrel from the coopers kit
if i was to go into the homebrew shop what would be the list of things to buy to ferment bottle and enjoy mead?
looking for a 5l demijohn and all the equipment, how much would it rack up to?
also possibly a noob question
when fermenting rapidly for the first few days is it left open ie no lid or air lock?

cant wait to put it down and wait around 2 or so months for it


----------



## thebeemann

Hi have just put my first 1 of these down , has been brewing realy well for 4 days , is it normal for it too smell like bannanas ? the whole room smells like freshh cooked bannanna bread , the only thing i did different to the recipe is added a teaspoon of ginger powder as most of the meads i make have this added , i think honey and ginger works well together , the temp for the brew has been around 23c cheers and happy new year. :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## rageyes

B P I posted this before but apparently in the wrong place. I have followed your instructions to the letter but after 20 hours there is very little reaction by the yeast, very slight head. The only yeast I could source was Tandaco Dry Yeast and I used i teaspoon full. Have I hit the panic button too soon or have I used the wrong yeast. Cheers


----------



## fcmcg

rageyes said:


> B P I posted this before but apparently in the wrong place. I have followed your instructions to the letter but after 20 hours there is very little reaction by the yeast, very slight head. The only yeast I could source was Tandaco Dry Yeast and I used i teaspoon full. Have I hit the panic button too soon or have I used the wrong yeast. Cheers


I used Tandaco too...no problems there...
Another thing to remember , is your airlock is no indicator of fermentation....and 20 hours you say ? Meh..don't worry bloke...it'll be fine...put it in the cupboard and forget about it...in 3 months have another look at it...
RELAX ! Hide the panic button !
Ferg


----------



## fcmcg

nuggetron said:


> hey
> ive read the first 5 pages of this forum, awesome read
> pretty sure im gunna have a stab at it
> firstly i have no demijohn, only the brewing barrel from the coopers kit
> if i was to go into the homebrew shop what would be the list of things to buy to ferment bottle and enjoy mead?
> looking for a 5l demijohn and all the equipment, how much would it rack up to?
> also possibly a noob question
> when fermenting rapidly for the first few days is it left open ie no lid or air lock?
> 
> cant wait to put it down and wait around 2 or so months for it


ALWAYS use a lid or airlock...or glad wrap and an elastic band....or loose tin foil but never open
My 5 litre demijohn was $12 plus a rubber grommet cork thing with a hole for the airlock...
F


----------



## rageyes

Thanks for your fast reply, I am used to brewing spirits and when I add the yeast I stand back and watch it really perform. Thanks for easing my mind on the yeast, Cheers.


----------



## nuggetron

i put mine down on boxing day that day the glad wrap and rubber band had fully swollen up from the CO2, i undid the rubber band a lil i had it looped 3 times and went to only 2 cuz i though the glad wrap would snap and then let it spoil, now nothing has happened, im assuming that its because its a slow fermenting thing how long do we let it go before taking actions?


----------



## rageyes

(After major foaming stops in a few days add some water and then keep your hands off of it. (Don't shake it! Don't mess with them yeastees! Leave them alone except its okay to open your cabinet to inhale deeply the smell every once in a while.)

Mine has been down now for 4 days. How much water do I ad as per Brewer Petes quote above


----------



## nuggetron

rageyes said:


> (After major foaming stops in a few days add some water and then keep your hands off of it. (Don't shake it! Don't mess with them yeastees! Leave them alone except its okay to open your cabinet to inhale deeply the smell every once in a while.)
> 
> Mine has been down now for 4 days. How much water do I ad as per Brewer Petes quote above



i didnt add water, i think its if it drops down below the mark 3.8 L per 5L container
mine fell a tad but negligible amount i think


----------



## keezawitch

Brewer Pete said:


> View attachment 26996
> 
> JAO Twins, 1 Clove and 2 Clove, a few days after pitching yeast.
> 
> 
> 
> This recipe is designed for beginners. Everyone else with an opinion can just buggar off!
> 
> For a 5 litre demijohn
> -------------------------------
> 
> 1.6kg honey (never boiled or lose the taste and aromas) (if I meant 1.5kg I would have written it)
> 1 large orange (at most cut into eight pieces -- rind and all)
> 1 small handful of raisins (25 if you can count)
> 1 stick of cinnamon (its brown, its wood, its good)
> 1 whole clove (or 2 if you like high potency)
> optional (a pinch of nutmeg and allspice )( very small mind you )
> 1 tsp of bread yeast (now don't get holy on me about bread yeast -- after all this recipe is DESIGNED for it)
> Balance water to bring batch out to 3.8 litres (did you know, there are 3.785411 litres per US gallon)
> 
> 
> Process:
> 
> Use a clean 5 litre demijohn.
> 
> Dissolve honey in some warm water and put in demijohn
> 
> Wash orange well to remove any pesticides and slice into eights (may wish to zest slightly, just shove em through the demijohn's hole)
> 
> Put in raisins, clove, cinnamon stick, any optional ingredients and fill demijohn with water to about 3.8 litres with cold water (need some room for some foam -- you can top off with more water after the first few days foaming frenzy). (You did remember to pour in a measured 3.8 litres and mark off the level on the outside of the glass demijohn before hand right?)
> 
> Shake the hell out of the demijohn with the top on or bung in (of course). This is your sophisticated oxygenation process.
> 
> When liquid is at room temperature, put in 1 tsp of bread yeast (no you don't have to rehydrate it first -- the ancients did not even have that word in their vocabulary -- just put it in and give it a gentle swirl or not)(The yeast can fight for their own territory)
> 
> Install water airlock. Put in dark place. It will start working immediately or in an hour. (Don't use grandma's bread yeast she bought years before she passed away in the 90's -- use the fresh stuff) (Wait 3 hours before you panic or call me) After major foaming stops in a few days add some water and then keep your hands off of it. (Don't shake it! Don't mess with them yeastees! Leave them alone except its okay to open your cabinet to inhale deeply the smell every once in a while.)
> 
> 
> Racking -- *Don't you dare!*
> Additional feeding -- *No! NO!*
> More stirring or shaking -- *You are not listening, do not touch!*
> 
> 
> After 2 months and maybe a few days it will slow down to a stop and clear all by itself. (How about that) (You are not so important after all) Then you can put a hose in with a small cloth filter on the end into the clear part and siphon off the golden nectar. If you wait long enough even the oranges will sink to the bottom but I never waited that long. If it is clear it is ready. You don't need a cold basement. It does better in a kitchen in the dark. (Like in a cabinet) likes a little heat (20C-25C). If it didn't work out... you screwed up and didn't read my instructions (or used grandma's bread yeast she bought years before she passed away) . If it didn't work out then take up another hobby. Mead is not for you. It is too complicated.
> 
> If you were successful, which I am 99% certain you will be, then enjoy your mead. When you get ready to make different types of mead you will probably have to unlearn some of these practices I have taught you, but hey -- This recipe and procedure works with these ingredients so don't knock it. It was your first mead. It was my tenth. Sometimes, even the experts can forget all they know and make good ancient mead.
> 
> This mead should finish quite sweet, if it finished dry, most likely your bread yeast has higher alcohol tolerance than Fleishmann's Bread Yeast (original recipe USA brand of dry yeast -- 12% alc tol. and high flocculation). In Australia for the past few years all the dry yeast sold is imported from China. So add more honey in the next batch and so on until it finishes sweet instead of dry or switch brands (but then again all the Australian brands today are probably from the same barrel of imported China dry yeast). Don't like it sweet? Add less honey next time.
> 
> Keep in mind, that will completely void the "warranty" of Ancient Orange recipe if you randomly use a different yeast. Different yeasts have different alcohol tolerance, and it just so happens that the Fleishman's active dry bread yeast is perfect for this recipe in regards to alcohol tolerance. Using another yeast would probably give better results *IF* the honey was re-balanced to suit the yeast. Again, this recipe is all about *BALANCE*. The bitterness from the orange and the sweetness of the honey balance perfectly with the alcohol level. I don't know if I just don't have a well enough educated palate or what, but I can't discern any yeast flavour in my Ancient Orange. It is young even by this recipe's standard; the batch cleared at about 4 weeks and is currently in bottles. Even at such an extremely young age, it turned out incredibly smooth with a wonderful flavour of the varietal honey that I used. The spices are "just right" and everything comes together perfectly. If it is not clear, just wait longer as one day it will magically turn from cloudy to clear and the fruit will drop meaning its time to bottle. Like any mead if you leave this one to age (although only need 6 months) then it just keeps tasting better. Foaming and clearing times are dependent upon yeast and temperature conditions.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete
> 
> View attachment 26997
> 
> JAO Twins today, note the honey is much lighter in colour now.



loved your instructions, as soon as i get my hands on some demijohns i am going to try this :icon_cheers: :icon_cheers:


----------



## nuggetron

keezawitch said:


> loved your instructions, as soon as i get my hands on some demijohns i am going to try this :icon_cheers: :icon_cheers:



no need for demijohns man, just buy a 15L tub of water comes with a pouring device and water
food safe plastic
all good


----------



## d3vour3r

i plan on going to woolies this arvo to pick up the ingredients for this.

going to use a 5L bottle of spring water and a low pressure oztop for my water and fermentation vessel. will give it a bit of fiz but i dont mind as its easier then drilling a hole and fitting a grommet and airlock etc.


----------



## jakub76

I made a few of these in 2010. I just bought a 4L bottle of water and used that as the brewing water and the fermentation vessel with glad wrap and a rubber band on top - worked great!

I did a side-by-side with baker's yeast and US-05. The US-05 settled out better so was easier to rack and eventually pour, it tasted great even after only 3 months.

I saved a single bottle for a year which I just opened this christmas. It was delicious. Completely clear golden colour with no carbonation. Beautiful, rich fruit cake flavour with some alcohol warmth replacing the zesty, fruity yeast character observed earlier. A real winner - I'll be scaling up this recipe and making more for sure!


----------



## leiothrix

nuggetron said:


> no need for demijohns man, just buy a 15L tub of water comes with a pouring device and water
> food safe plastic
> all good



Not really the best suggestion in the world for two reasons:

1 -- Mead has a fair amount of alcohol in it which is a pretty good solvent and which the containers aren't made for. Some people aren't worried about this, but I would be.

2 -- Plastic is not air tight. For making beer or something that ferments quickly this isn't a problem. For making wine/mead or anything that takes a long time to ferment glass is the best bet as it is oxygen proof.


----------



## GeoffN

leiothrix said:


> Not really the best suggestion in the world for two reasons:
> 
> 1 -- Mead has a fair amount of alcohol in it which is a pretty good solvent and which the containers aren't made for. Some people aren't worried about this, but I would be.
> 
> 2 -- Plastic is not air tight. For making beer or something that ferments quickly this isn't a problem. For making wine/mead or anything that takes a long time to ferment glass is the best bet as it is oxygen proof.



Depends on the type of plastic. Typically water containers are LDPE. Not going to dissolve in even 100% alcohol. However LDPE is not gas tight and so you will get a small and I mean small amount of oxygen getting into your brew. So small that you do not have to worry about it in the slightest. 

Use the water container you'll be good. 

Another common plastic is PTFE which is what most plastic soft drink bottles and Coopers plastic bottles are made of. Same caveats apply. Coopers bottle have a layer of Nylon in them so I have heard.


----------



## GeoffN

I put one down tonight. 

Small batch in a 2 liter flagon that cost $3.50. Missus is watching what I spend on alcohol related things. This one is for her as she likes desert wines and to try and get her to be a little less antagonistic.

1.7 litre total
700g mixed blossom honey from Aldi (500)ml
1/2 cinamon stick
1 small clove
3/8th of a thin skinned orange. I was worried about overly bitter reading through all the posts here
11 Sultanas
1/3 teaspoon Lauke bread yeast

Glad wrap and elastic airlock

Put it under the house as that should keep it cooler this time of year. I may dig it a hole and cover it up if we get some hot weather. I'll wrap it up carefully first. Do not have hydrometer so no OG.

Will check back in in about 3 months.


----------



## leiothrix

I probably should have been more clear -- the containers won't dissolve with ethanol but they will leech 'stuff' into the liquid.

If you leave plain water in a plastic container for a week you can taste the plastic, ethanol just does a better job and is not something i'd want to drink.

PE lets a (relative) lot of air through it. It's ok for a couple of weeks but not for months/years. BetterBottles are PET which has a lot less permeability, which is probobaly ok for mead (though still wouldn't trust it with 95% ethanol). I like glass though for long term storage. No gas transfer, no infection risk either and very easy to clean.

(And BTW i think you meant PET instead of PTFE -- the latter is teflon which you can get bottles made out of but is very expensive).


----------



## Golani51

Mine started bubbling away something chronic after several hours (made a starter) with a multitude of minute bubbles and never seemed to stop. I ended up leaving my gallon for 5 months and it got bitter but I like it. The sweetness from the honey all but disappeared. After a crash chill for a week (buggered it up the first time and had to wait for it to clear again), it was bottled as a beautiful clear apple juice colored liquid. I may have left it too long (dont mind the bitterness though) but it does not seem to have huge flavor. I don't know what I was expecting though. Maybe something llike a sherry. Aroma delicious though. Anyone had the same result?? No alcohol burn but as sweetness gone, it must definitely be there.


----------



## nuggetron

prehaps a stupid question
but what and or how do i get the mead out of the container into bottles once completed?
i went with the cheap 15L bottle of water option if that makes a difference
was thinking once its cleared put the cap back on lay it down on the side wait for it to re clear then use the tap to fill the bottles?


----------



## fcmcg

nuggetron said:


> prehaps a stupid question
> but what and or how do i get the mead out of the container into bottles once completed?
> i went with the cheap 15L bottle of water option if that makes a difference
> was thinking once its cleared put the cap back on lay it down on the side wait for it to re clear then use the tap to fill the bottles?


I siphoned mine out with mysanitised silicon hose into a 5 litre jug...then bottled....
F


----------



## tanukibrewer

Thanks for the recipe!Was bored a couple of Sundays ago and as my fermenter is lagering an AG Kolsch ale I thought I would like to have a crack at something a little different.Had a 15L plastic fermenter that I bought for a Sake project so I upscaled the recipe to about 12L.Still bubbling 8days later,smells good,poured 20ml off and tastes good.Will put in the pantry for a couple of months.
Looking forward to drinking it.
Thanks again


----------



## [email protected][email protected]!

bottled ours yesterday after it had been in the demi for 3 months. tastes divine. it will make lovely christmas presents in posh bottles.


----------



## MaestroMatt

After reading this entire thread last week, I decided to have a crack at this recipe. I have never had a mead in my life so I have absolutely no idea whether I am going to like it or not, but the ability to taste test after 4-5 months is a much more appealing option than waiting 2+ years.

My variables from the recipe were the following:

Honey: 1.6kg Beechworth Honey from Supermarket. Not sure about the honey but it tastes really nice so I suppose that is important.

Orange: A nice, juicy valencia orange

Yeast: 1 Sachet of Tandaco bread yeast. There was plenty of yeast in 1 sachet to ensure good start to the fermentation.


I had a decent krausen and lots of airlock activity within 2 hours. Now comes the hard part with any kind of brewing - the wait. 

MM


----------



## GeoffN

Bottled mine a week ago. Nice!. Wife says I can do another one. She's the only one who tasted it and I'll not feed it to the kids.

Took about 3 months to go clear. If I was doing this to quench my thirst I'd stay with beer. But I had plenty other stuff to drink so no rush.

I'll do it again.


----------



## nuggetron

ok guys so my mead is still fermenting
it went down on boxing day
4 months and 2 weeks or so
it is in the beer fridge but thats only on it the middle of the day for about 3 hours
any ideas?


----------



## barls

what gravity is it at?


----------



## nuggetron

barls said:


> what gravity is it at?



no idea
i will measure that tonight


----------



## kaspa07

Hi all thought I might share my Raspberry Mead recepie

4kg organic wildflower honey
1kg frozen rasberies
CY17 yeast
Yeast nutrient
Teaspoon of tartaric and Malic acid
15lt water

All this fermented well for a 2 weeks plenty of sediment on the bottom of the fermenter

Racked it off into another fermenter using a stocking over the transfer tube to filter out any rassbery bits
Over the space of a month I racked it several times

I was really aiming for something sweet but this turned out to be super dry and I think I added a bit too much acid

My wife got me an oak barrel for my birthday in March so its been sitting in the barrel since then ageing.

When I transfered the mead into the oak barell I backsweetened with about 250g of honey

Its turned out a nice drop though slighty a bit acidic, the raspberry flavour is very suttle and the colour is fantastic 

Its my seccond ever mead so im happy with it


----------



## barls

:icon_drool2: :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2:


----------



## nuggetron

barls said:


> what gravity is it at?



0.41
i never took an initial measurement
should i treat it as a beer and measure the next two days and see for any changes?


----------



## barls

was it petes recipe you put down or some other one.
if so i would think that 1041 is about half way.


----------



## nuggetron

copied the original post


----------



## barls

right with a rough calculated starting og of 1091. id say your half way through but saying that if the gravity doesnt move id suggest ether warming it up or repitching as it will be bloody sweet


----------



## nuggetron

barls said:


> right with a rough calculated starting og of 1091. id say your half way through but saying that if the gravity doesnt move id suggest ether warming it up or repitching as it will be bloody sweet



re pitch as in more yeast?
cause i did that about a month ago
it is sickly sweet it tastes like a dirty cheap fruity lexia or something


----------



## barls

was it healthy active yeast or just another sprinkle of yeast.


----------



## nuggetron

barls said:


> was it healthy active yeast or just another sprinkle of yeast.



2 packets of bread yeast chucked in some warm water and sugar made sure it was fermenting in the cup then threw it in the brew


----------



## barls

so active. give it some time and it will ferment out eventually


----------



## nuggetron

barls said:


> so active. give it some time and it will ferment out eventually



should i take it out of the fridge?
its had 5 months nearly just getting worried haha


----------



## troopa

Whats the fridge sitting at? 18deg?


----------



## nuggetron

the fridge is on for about 4 hours a day between 11-5 or there abouts on and off just so it doesnt go moldy andas a temp control over summer, its on the highest temp possible not sure what that is


----------



## troopa

if at all possible get a temp controller for your fridge
if you cant or dont want too then take it out of the fridge for a few days a week and see if the yeast wakes back up as i have a feeling it maybe getting too cold and the yeast is hibernating


----------



## nuggetron

awesome thanks man
its outta the fridge and on the concrete ground in the garage i think that might be enough temperature control over winter at least
it is sickly sweet at the moment, undrinkable, was hoping it wasnt that sweet haha


----------



## troopa

If your in Melbourne your garage floor will be sitting somewhere around 12-14 degrees at the moment. Thats a touch on the cold side but certainly better then your fridge id think


----------



## nuggetron

hey guys so i brought some glass bottles with flip tops
they arent exactly air proof, i filled em up with water turned em up side down and water slowly drips out
now if i put my mead in there (or any alcohol for that matter) knowing it isnt air proof or whatever the words are will i be risking contamination from air borne bacteria?
basically should i use these bottles or take em back?


----------



## barls

id take them back mate. if its not water tight its no good. you can just use beer bottles


----------



## nuggetron

barls said:


> id take them back mate. if its not water tight its no good. you can just use beer bottles



i only have plastics at the moment
plus i wanted a clear bottle to see the colour
only go them from the reject shop or whatever so 10 bucks for 5 isnt a big loss
are hbs ones any better?


----------



## barls

where are you mate? i possibly can help with some clear beer bottles. i normally use them for ciders and meads if im not bottling in wine bottles.
i bought some from the reject shop for some cordials i made, ended up throwing half the batch out as they grew mould due to the dodgy tops. i did end up re bending the cages but im still not 100% sure ive got it right. its almost time to make it again as the mandarin tree is full again so we will see.


----------



## nuggetron

barls said:


> where are you mate? i possibly can help with some clear beer bottles. i normally use them for ciders and meads if im not bottling in wine bottles.
> i bought some from the reject shop for some cordials i made, ended up throwing half the batch out as they grew mould due to the dodgy tops. i did end up re bending the cages but im still not 100% sure ive got it right. its almost time to make it again as the mandarin tree is full again so we will see.



ahhh another one who got suckered in by the cheap bottles
im out campbelltown way
empty spirit bottles? would they work, not as fancy to give as a gift but the right price


----------



## barls

empty spirit bottles would work but as you said not a s fancy. im over near ryde but work in smeatons grange. if you want i can have a look how many clear bottles i have that can be capped tomorrow.
i normally cork and wax my meads.


----------



## nuggetron

barls said:


> empty spirit bottles would work but as you said not a s fancy. im over near ryde but work in smeatons grange. if you want i can have a look how many clear bottles i have that can be capped tomorrow.
> i normally cork and wax my meads.



thanks for the offer man but the mead still has a while to go and its a massive batch and wouldnt wanna take bottles off you
i have a cupboard full of virtually empty spirits so should be able to finish them off before the mead is ready and can just use them
thanks though
good members on this forum


----------



## barls

ive got a few that i need to bottle soon myself when i get around to it. my chocolate one has been in the fermentor for about 12 months now


----------



## nuggetron

barls said:


> my chocolate one has been in the fermentor for about 12 months now



12 months!!!! soooo patient!!!!
i put down a 44 liqueur yesterday and ive checked it like 20 times in 24 hours


----------



## barls

not really, i lost it in behind my sours. only found it the other day.


----------



## cam89brewer

I am about to go ahead with my first mead and the only thing I am unsure about is the fact of bottling something that in not carbonated and the layer of oxygen in the bottle. 
How do you go about preventing this or doesn't this cause oxidation and off/stale Flavours?


----------



## cam89brewer

cambrew said:


> I am about to go ahead with my first mead and the only thing I am unsure about is the fact of bottling something that in not carbonated and the layer of oxygen in the bottle.
> How do you go about preventing this or doesn't this cause oxidation and off/stale Flavours?




I am guessing this is one of those times where everyone thinks I should do more research? But I cant find anything.


----------



## glenwal

cambrew said:


> I am guessing this is one of those times where everyone thinks I should do more research? But I cant find anything.



Does this help?


----------



## cam89brewer

Glen W said:


> Does this help?



Yes thanks heaps for that! I suppose it must be pretty easy to miss something when there are 30+ pages to go through. :lol:


----------



## FuzzyDropbear

Hi Pete, thanks for the recipe, I've only really had a tiny sample of mead but was quite intrigued by it so thought I would give it a whirl. Put it down on Tuesday night and amazed at how simple it was (I know what I'll be doing next time I can't get to sleep). Talking to the guys at the homebrew shop, they gave me plenty of ideas on what can be done with meads so if all goes well then JAO might end up becoming a permanent feature next to the beers.

It's currently bubbling away in the living room but I'll move it into my fermentation freezer alongside the cider I have brewing as the temps a bit more stable in there. Might keep it a bit happier during some of these chilly Ballarat days.

Cheers. :beer:


----------



## FuzzyDropbear

Hi guys, the recipe says that after a couple of days when the foaming subsides that you should add some extra water, just wondering how much I should be looking to add and what the purpose of the extra water is?

I was thinking of just adding a couple of hundred mL to bring it up to 4L, or is more required?

Cheers.


----------



## nuggetron

what final gravity should we be aiming for? using the original posted recipe


----------



## Jeff_beazley

Firstly - thanks for the recipe!

I've just finished putting together 2 demijohns (one with less honey) however it's been about 6 hours and the honey is still very much undissolved at the bottom.

Is this normal? Will it eventually dissolve?

Thanks in advance.

Jeff


----------



## Danwood

My father in law is an apiarist in Mildura...I really should pull my finger out and have a go at a mead :lol: .


----------



## Rob S

Bottling today after 4+ months in the demijohn. The oranges dropped last week, weeks after the fermentation seemed to stop. Going to put it in 330ml stubbies as i only have about 4 litres. Going to prime half with sugar & leave the other half unprimed.


----------



## FuzzyDropbear

Jeff Beazley said:


> Firstly - thanks for the recipe! I've just finished putting together 2 demijohns (one with less honey) however it's been about 6 hours and the honey is still very much undissolved at the bottom. Is this normal? Will it eventually dissolve? Thanks in advance. Jeff



Hi Jeff, did you dissolve the honey in hot water as per the recipe or did you just bung it in? Actually, after reading back a couple of pages (thought I'd read it somewhere) someone stated that the honey will eventually dissolve, it may just take a while. 
Cheers.
Rob
_edit: To correct statement.
_


----------



## Jeff_beazley

FuzzyDropbear said:


> Hi Jeff, did you dissolve the honey in hot water as per the recipe or did you just bung it in? Actually, after reading back a couple of pages (thought I'd read it somewhere) someone stated that the honey will eventually dissolve, it may just take a while.
> Cheers.
> Rob
> _edit: To correct statement.
> _



Hi rob, I just dissolved it in some warm water to make it easier to work with (original recipe said not to boil). I didn't see the post saying it will dissolve after time, but I guess I'll just leave it to work it's magic! Thanks for the info!
Jeff


----------



## nuggetron

ok so my mead was fermenting it has stopped but its now on 1.040
no where near whatit should be? 
ive kinda made an adjustment to the bottle so it cant be turned to add more yeast unless i risk losing some liquid gold
thoughts? is it done? its been on 1.040 for a month and a half
out of the fridge and on a stool in the garage


----------



## Gop

I made another batch of this but no orange and about twice the honey. I left it for about 3 months and it was quite clear, though not fully since our bees make "town honey" a dark honey which occurs as the bees visit all different flowers. 

Anyway, the mead tastes great but it's about 14% or maybe more. I'm used to drinking from my half pint cup and nearly fell off my chair! It's a good recipe - recommended.


----------



## mestoth

Laid down my first double batch 

2 X 5 Litre Demis currently doing the yeast thing.

Need to re-read but regarding topping up with water after a couple of days...to what volume? or is it just to top it back to the 3.8L mark previously established?


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

My fruit dropped last week so I've had it chilled for a few days in the hope of settling out the yeast...it's still pretty looseley caked - looks very cloudy in this photo as I've just moved it to the kitchen fridge from the brew fridge...

...but my main interest/concern is those spots (on the glass, not in the mead - that's some refloated raisins) . There was a bit of bread yeast on the walls that got stuck as I pitched. I guess this is the point of the growth....be interesting to see if it effects the taste/kills me...


----------



## FuzzyDropbear

Can't imagine the yeast would affect the flavour much, it's only what's in the mead anyway.

I just bottled mine last night. Had some of the leftover as a sampler and wow, what a kick. I haven't tried mead before but it's quite, dunno how to describe it, rich(?) maybe. I don't think I could sit there and knock it back, maybe as a desert wine or something over a couple of hours. The missus was impressed though, so thanks for sharing Pete :icon_cheers: I think this will be a nice Christmas present to a couple of family friends.

For the yeast I bought from my local HBS for my breadmaking, I'd have to up the honey for the next one to balance out some of the dryness I think.

On another note, would mead go off or go funny if I was to chuck it a port barrel? I was just thinking because I'll probably only have it as a nightcap type drink so I'm not sure if I'd finish a longneck.


----------



## thanme

Hi guys. A quick couple of questions.
After spending ages saying "Ooh I should make that", I finally pulled my finger out and did it. I have 2 5L Demijohns both using different types of honey. They've been sitting in my kitchen cupboard now since the end of June (so we're coming in to week 12) and I'm yet to see it go clear. At what stage should I start to worry?? That being said, I have noticed the oranges starting to sink this week. Is it worth sampling/gravity testing, or should i just sit tight for a bit longer?


----------



## FuzzyDropbear

Hey mate, not sure why it hasn't cleared, mine was clear after about 2 and a bit months. What temp has it been sitting at? I had mine sitting at about 17 degrees to help fermentation along, otherwise it would have stalled here in the Ballarat winter.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Mine wasn't crystal clear when I crash chilled it. It cleared up heaps at ~2 degrees though.


----------



## nuggetron

NME said:


> Is it worth sampling/gravity testing, or should i just sit tight for a bit longer?



Sample yes
good to learn how its going
mine was put down on boxing day and is still going so it depends on a variety of factors, i did a big 15 litre batch and im sure this affected the time
i bottled it thinking it was done, but wasnt 100% sure so put plastic bags over the bottles held down with rubber bands and the bags kept inflating suggesting fermentation, thats one way to go if you not sure if its finished once a week or so i just empty the bag and keep repeating until it doesnt do it anymore, i think another month for mine and it will be perfect


----------



## thanme

It's just been in the cupboard, so who knows?? That being said, over the last couple of months has been pretty cold in our house, so it could just be slower because of that.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll sample this weekend and give the bag trick a go. That's a clever one


----------



## nuggetron

NME said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I'll sample this weekend and give the bag trick a go. That's a clever one



that was a mistake the fact that it was on a bag, i bottled it thinking it was finished then when i opened to show my mum it hissed and was like oh crap it isnt finished


----------



## thanme

Right, so I gave them both a test, and apart from tasting amazing, one is sitting on 1.045 and the other on 1.042. oddly enough, the mead on 1.045 is the one where all the oranges have sunk. I thought it would be the other way around.

One thing I should note is that I didn't add the "top up" water after the foaming, because I didn't actually see any major foaming activity during the first week. 

I guess these still have a fair bit to go right? There's certainly nothing wrong with them, so I'll just leave them for at least another 4 weeks and see where we're at.


----------



## nuggetron

i failed to top up the water as well


----------



## brettprevans

mmmmm mead... after about 14 months. nectar :icon_drool2:


----------



## thanme

nuggetron said:


> i failed to top up the water as well



What gravity did it finish up at??




citymorgue2 said:


> mmmmm mead... after about 14 months. nectar :icon_drool2:



Wow! That's some serious patience


----------



## WarmBeer

citymorgue2 said:


> mmmmm mead... after about 14 months. nectar :icon_drool2:


Did you end up kegging it, CM?

The JAO's I've done have been uncarbonated, it turns out like a desert wine. Wondering how it would be with a little "spritz" in it...


----------



## brettprevans

WarmBeer said:


> Did you end up kegging it, CM?
> 
> The JAO's I've done have been uncarbonated, it turns out like a desert wine. Wondering how it would be with a little "spritz" in it...


half went into the keg (lightly carbed) then bottles and half just bottled straight away and is uncarbed. I think the light carbing adds something. It it a little desert wine-y as its a sweet mead. If it was drier it wouldnt need carbing. it would be delicious carbed but it wouldnt _need _it


----------



## nuggetron

4.6 litres of mead bottled after 9 months
still got another 5 in the brewing barrel but no bottles
cant wait till tasting session tonight


----------



## The_Duck

While checking on my fermenters in the garage yesterday, I took a few mins to take a sample from my mead that I have had sitting there for over 2 years.

It is a basic sack mead and was approx 3.5:1 (Water:Honey) mix.

It poured out beautifully clear with a desert wine aroma and 100 mls or so kicked like a mule 

Looks like I have about 20 litres of this to bottle in the near future. 

For any of you Melbourne Brewers out there, I will be bringing a sample bottle to the October meeting. I'd suggest no more than a sip if you are driving or better yet get a designated driver and enjoy a larger measure 

Duck


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

citymorgue2 said:


> mmmmm mead... after about 14 months. nectar :icon_drool2:



No negative changes?

I seem to remember reading somewhere in this thread Brewer Pete saying this was not a mead for ageing...perhaps it was not a mead that required ageing? I know it's the general rule for 'other' meads....I managed to get some discipline and cellar a couple bottles from my first batch and am going to try some long cellaring with the next lot as well. 



WarmBeer said:


> The JAO's I've done have been uncarbonated, it turns out like a desert wine. Wondering how it would be with a little "spritz" in it...



I put a couple of my very dessert winey meads through a carbo cap. Pretty nice. I prefer it still, but an interesting taste anyway...


----------



## damo_m

Nice one, I like it. Anyone got a good place to buy a 5 litre demijohn setup with airlock and rubber stopper?


----------



## WarmBeer

Demijohn

Bung

Airlock

Not so hard now, was it?


----------



## damo_m

WarmBeer said:


> Demijohn
> 
> Bung
> 
> Airlock
> 
> Not so hard now, was it?




nah, thanks for that. I wanted to use this smaller 5 litre demi to produce random experiments. For secondary fermentation do you transfer into bottles or can you add sugar and keep it all in the demi with a secure lid ? I have never used glass and the thought scares me a little due to over fermenting and blowing up.... lol...


----------



## WarmBeer

damo_m said:


> nah, thanks for that. I wanted to use this smaller 5 litre demi to produce random experiments. For secondary fermentation do you transfer into bottles or can you add sugar and keep it all in the demi with a secure lid ? I have never used glass and the thought scares me a little due to over fermenting and blowing up.... lol...


Have another read of the recipe. It's a still mead, no carbonation, so no need to add any sugar at bottling.

You want to give it at least 3 months in the primary fermenter, then bottle straight from there. Then just forget about it for 6 months, and it will magically transform into nectar of the gods.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

I made this 4 days ago and don't see much action in the Demi. I pitched 2 packs of bread yeast dry as per instructions but still nothing. Might go get another yeast pack from the shop.... How long has the yeast been sitting on the shelf in the supermarket? Who knows but im getting worried about bacteria taking over before the yeast get a hold of it.


----------



## WarmBeer

Gav80 said:


> I made this 4 days ago and don't see much action in the Demi. I pitched 2 packs of bread yeast dry as per instructions but still nothing. Might go get another yeast pack from the shop.... How long has the yeast been sitting on the shelf in the supermarket? Who knows but im getting worried about bacteria taking over before the yeast get a hold of it.


Where in the instructions does it say "2 packs of bread yeast"? Have a look at Page 1, for a 3.8lt batch (i.e. demijon sized) it calls for 1 tsp of bread yeast.

I suspect the reason you're not seeing anything is because all that yeast has completed fermentation within a 12 hour period.

Mmmmm, yeasty...


----------



## Danwood

My first batch is fizzing away nicely.
Mildura orange blossom honey, Mildura orange and Mildura muscats. Mildura Mead !

I substituted the raisins for the big, fat muscats, and threw in 3 dates too, just for laughs. And no bloody cloves, because they suck arse :icon_vomit: 
Hopefully it'll be just the tipple with a cheese board at Christmas, though not this one unfortunately...too soon.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

WarmBeer said:


> Where in the instructions does it say "2 packs of bread yeast"? Have a look at Page 1, for a 3.8lt batch (i.e. demijon sized) it calls for 1 tsp of bread yeast.
> 
> I suspect the reason you're not seeing anything is because all that yeast has completed fermentation within a 12 hour period.
> 
> Mmmmm, yeasty...



2 packs of that crusty old bread yeast thats been sitting on the shelf in woolly's for god knows how long, will be about equal to a teaspoon of healthy yeast when pitched dry straight into must at OG-1.380 or whatever it was because it was unreadable on the hydro when I checked it before adding the yeast. If it was done in a 12 hr period it would have bursted out the gladwrap but now I see it's just starting up and bubbling away nicely.
The 6 month old mead I have now is tasting really nice and I made a 5L starter with a liquid wyeast mead yeast pack and no "yeasty" flavours at all. Yes it's not to the recipe and more bread yeast than stated but now I see it fermenting away I think it'll turn out fine over time.


----------



## bullsneck

I just put my second mead down in as many weeks. First one using Red Box honey from Castlemaine and a Navel orange. The second one I got a little adventurous... Wangaratta Stringybark and a Blood Orange. Can't wait to try them!!


----------



## prestonpaul

bullsneck said:


> I just put my second mead down in as many weeks. First one using Red Box honey from Castlemaine and a Navel orange. The second one I got a little adventurous... Wangaratta Stringybark and a Blood Orange. Can't wait to try them!!


Ha! And Reedpaths just posted a photo of them on face book


----------



## drunkenmonkey

made up my first batch of JAOM yesterday following the recipe including the optional spices, only problem i encountered was the IGA only had big navel oranges upon cutting open they were nice and juicy and the pith wasn't to thick so went with 2/3 of the orange cut into 8 pieces, and just used off the shelf black and gold honey

then was bored this morning so made a second batch this time swapping the orange for a tangerine and using manuka honey and skipped the optional spices,

the local markets are on this weekend so i should be able to get some cheap honey and if im lucky when i get back to work next week our regular bee-keeping customer might have dropped some fresh honey in to, just have to remember to give him a few bottles when its done


----------



## Plaz

Thanks for the beginner recipe. Ive never made Mead and found this really easy to follow. 

Started bubbling away nicely after first hour and has been down two days now. Smells really nice in the cupboard.  

Its at 26 degrees with a single buble coming through the airlock every 5-6 seconds. 

The yeast I used was Tandaco dry yeast (7grams per pack) from Coles. 


Has about 1 cm of head on it.


----------



## Golani51

I just opened my JAO. Been 18 months in bottle (I know...best drunk fresh!). Friends polished off a bottle in a couple days and asked for more. Will have to make another batch urgently as I only have 4 more litres. Will try fresh next time. Delicious.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Just bottled my second batches. Another pair of 5l demijons. After a month I racked one onto a heap of frozen berries and some french berry jam. I didn't take OG readings or SG when I racked.

It's been three months. They started getting very clear about a month ago, but the fruit didn't drop until I crash chilled a few days ago.

I probably should have taken readings...maybe waited a bit more. The honey mead was ~1050 and the melomel ~1070. I suspect that one stopped fermenting soon after I racked it.

I am drinking the melomel now. Pretty darn sweet, but not undrinkably so. Well over a definition of a sweet mead though. As I didn't take OG readings, I have no idea of alcohol content. Looking at OGs posted in this thread it could be anywhere between 2.5 and 8%.

Lessons you might draw from this: take OGs, don't rack onto something acidic too early.


----------



## Perry the Pom

G'day All,
I posted this message before but I do not know if I posted it in the correct place. I have read all these messages on Mead so I thought I would post it here as well.
Cheers Perry


G'day Brewer Pete,
I have followed your Mead recipe to a T. I made sure I purchased new yeast and kept the temperature correct. The mead bubbled in the airlock for two days, now it has stopped. I can see thousands of tiny bubbles coming from the bottom of the glass carboy to the top. I am in Queensland and the temperature is in the high 20. Could you give me some advice please, or anybody that has knowledge on the subject of Mead. 
Cheers Perry the Pom


----------



## Golani51

Stick it under the house. It is too hot. I just leave mine in cupboardwhich seems to stsay quite cool.




Perry the Pom said:


> G'day All,
> I posted this message before but I do not know if I posted it in the correct place. I have read all these messages on Mead so I thought I would post it here as well.
> Cheers Perry
> 
> 
> G'day Brewer Pete,
> I have followed your Mead recipe to a T. I made sure I purchased new yeast and kept the temperature correct. The mead bubbled in the airlock for two days, now it has stopped. I can see thousands of tiny bubbles coming from the bottom of the glass carboy to the top. I am in Queensland and the temperature is in the high 20. Could you give me some advice please, or anybody that has knowledge on the subject of Mead.
> Cheers Perry the Pom


----------



## syudoname

I needed a 5 litre demi today and then it hit me - I'd seen this recipe 2 years ago, raced out to get all the goodies, followed the recipe to the letter and started it same day......
Having forgotten all about it for long enough to go significantly greyer I eyed the brew with some suspicion, the orange was a nasty dark colour - but hey it was nice and clear so I siphoned it out 99% sure I it was going to be bordering on poisonous.
A tentative sip ............... heaven :icon_drunk: , still not quite believing it could actually be alright, much less the sweet warming nectar I had sippped I poured 2 little glasses, added some ice and had my lad try it with me - it's unanimous.

I'm certainly not saying it was a good idea to leave it that long, but the mead gods were obviously smiling upon me.

Cheers,
Spanky.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

Tried mine a couple of weeks ago after 3 months and it's just got the hottest alcohol taste. Pretty disappointing really lucky Iv'e got heaps more mead on the go that is tasting spectacular!


----------



## Plaz

Plaz said:


> Thanks for the beginner recipe. Ive never made Mead and found this really easy to follow.
> 
> Started bubbling away nicely after first hour and has been down two days now. Smells really nice in the cupboard.
> 
> Its at 26 degrees with a single buble coming through the airlock every 5-6 seconds.
> 
> The yeast I used was Tandaco dry yeast (7grams per pack) from Coles.
> 
> 
> Has about 1 cm of head on it.



This batch of mead from last month cleared last night - happy new year!!

Will it be ok to drink so soon after just 30 days?


----------



## Bubba Q

bottled my first batch yesterday. looks pretty darn spiffy


----------



## bullsneck

Well I went and forgot to add the water after the initial flurry of fermentation. Just checked on it after almost 3 months and they are clear as a bell. Too late to top up the water to 5L?


----------



## Deep End

Just whipped up my first JAO, followed the instructions to the letter, currently sitting in a dark place waiting for the yeasties to kick into action, roll on the next few months!

I like the idea of this mead stuff, makes me imagine pewter or wooden tankards and goblets, open fires, candlelight and importantly wenches dispensing the mead into said tankards and goblets of hairy men dressed in leather and fur, with daggers, axes n swords n stuff!

Yep I was born 1000 or so years too late!! :beerbang:


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

bullsneck said:


> Well I went and forgot to add the water after the initial flurry of fermentation. Just checked on it after almost 3 months and they are clear as a bell. Too late to top up the water to 5L?


See what your grav is like. As I posted above, I had a couple batches of this that finished way high - 1050 for a straight one and 1070 for one I mixed with berries. The 1070 in particular was undrinkably sweet. I have found that it is absolutely smashing mixed in with Champagne or Cider though.

I have post diluted beer with boiled, coiled water at bottling before and the product was OK, and I believe the big commercials do this too? Wouldn't hurt to try, but I'd let gravity be your guide. Any higher than 1050 and I'd say it's too sickly sweet, but maybe it will make a good mixer?


----------



## Danwood

Danwood said:


> My first batch is fizzing away nicely.
> Mildura orange blossom honey, Mildura orange and Mildura muscats. Mildura Mead !
> 
> I substituted the raisins for the big, fat muscats, and threw in 3 dates too, just for laughs. And no bloody cloves, because they suck arse :icon_vomit:
> Hopefully it'll be just the tipple with a cheese board at Christmas, though not this one unfortunately...too soon.


OK, all finished and bottled !

OG 1.118
FG 1.010
14.5% abv

Initial tasting is very good. Quite light, nice citrus sweetness with a touch of bitterness and a slight warmth at the end.

Although, that was straight out of the fridge, crash chilling to drop the yeast, so I'd expect all the above notes to be more exaggerated when it's a bit warmer....which I'm looking froward to !

I had a play aroung with 3 of the bottles too. One with 2 whole cocoa beans, one with 4 cocoa beans and one straight but with a half tsp honey for a little carbonation.

I'll post back results in a month or two :icon_cheers:


----------



## mjp

Have made so many versions of this and never thanked you Pete. My wife no longer worries about the time and money spent on my brewing . Thanks !!. My fav version of JAO is no cloves, Blackberries instead of raisons, blood oranges, and 3 or 4 star anise, done with a nice dry style white wine yeast--- oh yeah, pattersons curse honey.


----------



## Deep End

Bottled mine yesterday and can suggest that lowans bread yeast has a decent alcohol tolerance. The mead was thin, highly potent and the primary flavour seemed to be orange peel, will not be using the whole orange next time! The yeast chewed up all the honey and if I had to compare it to anything it tastes like cask moselle that I imagine is in the high teens as far as alcohol content goes. Wasn't what I expected, it did taste marginally better with a teaspoon of honey whirled around in it though. Couldnt register any spicy notes from the cinnamon, nutmeg or clove, was just hot and orangey. Oh well, one must try these things.


----------



## brettprevans

Deep End said:


> Bottled mine yesterday and can suggest that lowans bread yeast has a decent alcohol tolerance. The mead was thin, highly potent and the primary flavour seemed to be orange peel, will not be using the whole orange next time! The yeast chewed up all the honey and if I had to compare it to anything it tastes like cask moselle that I imagine is in the high teens as far as alcohol content goes. Wasn't what I expected, it did taste marginally better with a teaspoon of honey whirled around in it though. Couldnt register any spicy notes from the cinnamon, nutmeg or clove, was just hot and orangey. Oh well, one must try these things.


you seemed to missed the part where your to leave it mature for many months. This is something you age fir anywhere up to a year or more. I still have botles thatvare a few years old. Absolutely lovely. You need to wait for hot alcohol to go away.


----------



## Deep End

Well the original recipe indicates its ready to go straight outa the demi, but fear not there's a good chance the remaining bottles will get some good age on them


----------



## brettprevans

Deep End said:


> Well the original recipe indicates its ready to go straight outa the demi, but fear not there's a good chance the remaining bottles will get some good age on them


no it doesnt. Its been aged. Reread it.

Edit. 2nd last line of petes first post. Age for 6 months


----------



## drunkenmonkey

Deep End said:


> Bottled mine yesterday and can suggest that lowans bread yeast has a decent alcohol tolerance. The mead was thin, highly potent and the primary flavour seemed to be orange peel, will not be using the whole orange next time! The yeast chewed up all the honey and if I had to compare it to anything it tastes like cask moselle that I imagine is in the high teens as far as alcohol content goes. Wasn't what I expected, it did taste marginally better with a teaspoon of honey whirled around in it though. Couldnt register any spicy notes from the cinnamon, nutmeg or clove, was just hot and orangey. Oh well, one must try these things.


mine was similar when it was finished , but myself and the missus have tried a little every month for the last 3 months and its mellowed more each time, so just put it somewhere out of the way and bring it out at xmas time


----------



## surly

Joined the JAO club today. Now all I have to do is remember to check it 

For those playing at home, I used Tandaco dry yeast. 1 Navel orange, but only chucked half the skin in as it was very pithy (peeled half the orange and placed the flesh in).
The honey was local, organic bush honey. Fairly mild flavour and quite sweet.

Dodgy phone pic, just after pitching:


----------



## Biggus Dichus

Just wanted to thank you BP  . First batch to your recipe using yellowbox honey, it's bottled at 5 weeks and tastes great (my Dad has placed an order for his birthday.) Second batch I added a tsp of all-spice and a vanilla bean but it's pretty spicey, like a mulled wine I'll give to friends... And then I had to give a third batch a go too, with raspberries in it and it's smelling fantastic.

On a side note, I sourced honey from a local guy with his own hives. His wife asked me what I was doing with the honey and when I told her she gave me a bottle of Duttons Sweet Mead she had purchased in 1985. I took it home and figured it would be off. When I cracked the seal a fortified smell wafted out, but the first little sip just melted in my mouth......it really is incredible and gave me a long term dream benchmark.


----------



## DarkFaerytale

while i have meaded before, many moons ago, i also have jumped on the JAO bandwagon about 3 weeks ago.

looking forward to new years when people will be made to drink it from a drinking horn. good times.


----------



## of mice and gods

A mate (Ashul on this forum) found a place selling bulk bush honey in Maleny for 4 bucks a kilo so I too jumped on the JAO band wagon. I had a lot of honey and no demijohns so I trippled the batch into a standard 30L barrel fermenter.

I was a bit worried about the pith from the Orange being too bitter (particularly because the only available Oranges were Navel). I had a previously horrible experience with one small lime in 1/4's in a Cerveza. So I adjusted that bit.

Here's what I did:
4.8kgs bush honey
1 full navel orange (cut into 8) and the flesh of another full navel orange (about tennis ball size)
3 cinnamon sticks (one was particularly nice and fat)
3 whole cloves
a pinch of nutmeg
topped up to 11.6 L (yeh I over poured a bit..)
Pitched a whole sachet of Tandaco brand bread yeast (2.5 teaspoons) at 20 degrees C

OG 1141

Now to wait!


----------



## pt49

Just started my 1st JAO Honey Mead off in 1.5 litre V8 vegetable juice jars... (1.5 litres is exactly ⅓ of 5 litres)

5kg's of Ironbark/Stringbark honey sourced from Alf Honey at Upper Beaconsfield ($10 a kg)... a very robust dark honey.

In each jar went...

0.53 kg honey mixed with warm water.
⅓ of a medium orange cut into 3 pieces.
Just the head of a clove.
⅓ of a cinamon stick.
1 seed pod of a star annise.
A smidgin of nutmeg.
10 raisins.
I added water to the 1.13 litre mark... at the jars shoulder, then put a cap on it and shook shit outa it.

Once cooled to room temp I added ⅓ of a sachet of Tandaco Dry Yeast to each jar, gave it a swirl, covered it with Glad Wrap and a rubber band and shoved it in a kitchen cupboard.

Because I don't have bungs/corks I used Glad Wrap... I need to put a pin hole on the Gald Wrap no doubt?


----------



## Danwood

No pin hole needed, an elastic band around the neck will let the CO2 escape, so long as it's not super tight


----------



## pt49

Cool... next day and it's frothing beautifully. Now the wait!


----------



## Zippidity

So I got inspired by this recipe and wound up putting down two JAO batches 4 days ago, using different kinds of honey. 

I'm worried about two things:

I'm in Melbourne and the ambient temp is around 15 - 16 degrees. Will it still ferment okay? Should I be deploying a heat belt?

I used bread yeast but the only stuff I could find was Fermex bread yeast. Have I totally blown it?


----------



## DarkFaerytale

no, you worry to much, actually i think i'm using the fermex brand in my one at the moment as well, it's all the shop had. it might not be the same as the original recipe but i bet it still makes a pretty tasty mead.

i tried to look up a few websites on the yeast but found nothing on temperature, unless your in a rush, i would not stress to much. just rouse the yeast every couple of weeks if you see no action


----------



## kahlerisms

I'm about two months into primary on my first JAO. About ten days ago it suddenly cleared up. Waiting for the fruit to drop now and then I'll bottle.


----------



## AyeBee

Bottled and tasted mine for the first time today, I used Orange Blossom honey. Looks great in a wine glass, tasted great at 2.5 months old. Sure to be fantastic with same age on it.

I'm a mead convert!


----------



## of mice and gods

haven't seen any action in the airlock for a couple of weeks now (currently been in primary for 37 days) so i thought I'd do a gravity & taste test. OG was 1145, current gravity is 1065. It's brutally sweet and citrus-y.. will check again in another month or two.. hoping it attenuates out a bit more to reduce the sweetness and mellow the citrus out a bit.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

of mice and gods said:


> haven't seen any action in the airlock for a couple of weeks now (currently been in primary for 37 days) so i thought I'd do a gravity & taste test. OG was 1145, current gravity is 1065. It's brutally sweet and citrus-y.. will check again in another month or two.. hoping it attenuates out a bit more to reduce the sweetness and mellow the citrus out a bit.


I've had one lot that ended about there. I made some non-conclusive musings on the cause a few pages back: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/32762-jao-the-ultimate-beginners-mead-recipe/?p=978015

Hope yours drop somewhere...


----------



## Blazar

[SIZE=medium]Hi All,[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]This thread is awesome, and I’ve not yet had the privilege of trying mead before so I’m embarking on a journey to a batch of this down in the coming weeks. I do have what could be a stupid newbie question but I have to ask:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11pt]Does it matter what type of honey is used? I’m guessing that different varieties will result in different end products (much like different malts play a part in the character of a beer). I’m close to a number of local honey producers but am quite confused by which variety to choose:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Stringy Bark[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Iron Bark[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Grey Gum[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Scribbly Gum[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Blue Gum[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Yellow & Red Bloodwood[/SIZE]
[SIZE=11pt]Turpentine Tree & Tea Trees[/SIZE]


----------



## evildrakey

I usually avoid anything with too much of a Eucalyptus taste. I'm super-sensitive to the taste in the mead afterwards.


----------



## surly

Just bottled mine, looks pretty good. Will have a sneaky taste this evening because I can


----------



## markxbeesley

I have had my JAOM in the primary for 3 months and two days. A few raisins dropped to the bottom but the orange is yet to drop. It has been cold and probably fermenting at under 20 degrees. 

Should I be worried? Has it been too long? Or do I just leave it alone.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

markxbeesley said:


> I have had my JAOM in the primary for 3 months and two days. A few raisins dropped to the bottom but the orange is yet to drop. It has been cold and probably fermenting at under 20 degrees.
> 
> Should I be worried? Has it been too long? Or do I just leave it alone.


Rack it into a Demi and leave it for another few months. Takes a while to come good but you probably dont want it sitting on all the old yeast for to long.


----------



## of mice and gods

Brewer Pete said:


> After major foaming stops in a few days add some water and then keep your hands off of it. (Don't shake it! Don't mess with them yeastees! Leave them alone except its okay to open your cabinet to inhale deeply the smell every once in a while.)


Bugger.. I wish I'd seen that bit about adding some water about 3 months ago 

Time to take another gravity reading.


----------



## HalfWit

Hi, I'm looking at doing this for my 1st mead. Is it okay to use a plastic fermetor instead of glass. I know the head space will be an issue but could I get away with it? I was thinking of getting my honey from these people http://naturesbeezhoney.com.au/products-page/natural/
12 kg delivered is $105. What would be better, Iron Bark or Yellow Box. A big batch. Can I build up Sweet Mead yeast like Normal yeast? Thanks.


----------



## toolio666

So my Jao has been fermenting away for 4 months or so and looks like this. It's been at the back of my pantry for this time and only checked on occasionally, making sure the airlock was topped up...

Top Bottom





I used Tandaco yeast and Aldi honey.

Is it it infected? 

Patience or dump it?

Sorry, not the greatest pics...


----------



## Mardoo

Wish I could help you. You might also want to post in the infection photo thread.


----------



## OzChiton

Hi All, first post! I've just kicked off my first batch of mead as per this recipe (many thanks). A quick and slightly silly question. When you say to top off the brew after it finishes it's initial foaming, I assume you top it up with H2O to the 5L? Or in my case ~20L from a starting brew of about 14.7L. Cheers


----------



## firefysh

This looks so good that I've just (an hour ago) started brewing it. It is my first try at meade or wine making, so hopefully in a while we will have something nice to slurp on. 
Thanks for the recipe.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

HalfWit said:


> Hi, I'm looking at doing this for my 1st mead. Is it okay to use a plastic fermetor instead of glass. I know the head space will be an issue but could I get away with it? I was thinking of getting my honey from these people http://naturesbeezhoney.com.au/products-page/natural/
> 12 kg delivered is $105. What would be better, Iron Bark or Yellow Box. A big batch. Can I build up Sweet Mead yeast like Normal yeast? Thanks.


Even without the headspace concerns, you're going to get oxidation through the plastic during that time. Certainly going to affect the flavour and could encourage acetobacter, I'd think? Given the money you're spending on honey, a 5l demi is less than 20 bucks and money well spent. I've somehow ended up with about six. You could also buy some juice in 2l glass bottles and use some oz tops.


----------



## barls

he will be fine. the one i won the state comp with last year was fermented in plastic as for aceto only if his sanitation suxs.


----------



## of mice and gods

mine was fermented in a usual plastic fermenter and then racked into an aldi 12L water refill bottle, occassionally having a tipple, it's been going since march and no noticeable oxidisation? I did forgot to top up with water so it's taken awhile to get down but she's sitting on about 14% now and still retains light sweetness.


----------



## kahlerisms

kahlerisms said:


> I'm about two months into primary on my first JAO. About ten days ago it suddenly cleared up. Waiting for the fruit to drop now and then I'll bottle.


So the fruit took an awful long time to drop. Dropped maybe five weeks ago but I haven't got around to bottling yet. I used some past-use-by frozen bread yeast, so wasn't expecting much.

I tasted this yesterday.

DAMN IT'S GOOD

photo here
http://instagram.com/p/h7rYotE6A8/


lovely legs in the glass, very clear, nice light straw colour. Damn drinkable. Wish I knew what the ABV was. The legs are a hint I guess.

Absolutely doing another one. I ignored this in the pantry for like eight months and it's fantastic.


----------



## lael

Wow - super clear. Was reading this the other day - Going to have to try it!

Any tips?


----------



## kahlerisms

lael said:


> Wow - super clear. Was reading this the other day - Going to have to try it!
> 
> Any tips?


My biggest tip would be to follow the advice in the recipe: Leave it alone until the fruit drops. that was seven odd months for me, but it stayed in the dark and cool with a water lock (blow off into a glass of sanitiser) that whole time and it worked out really well. I bought some good honey to start with. Being the only mead I've ever had I don't know if it tastes like mead or not. If I had to compare it to something I'd say a soft Glayva.

Pretty happy!


----------



## The meadist

Just finished my first batch of this reciepe. Tastes Amazing, such an easy reciepe. I used fortified wine yeast instead and left it for nearly 6 months so its pretty potent but it was amazing. Anyone thinking of trying this reciepe should definetly have a go. next batch im going to try a sparkling mead (got some help from a friend who owns a vinyard


----------



## Danwood

2012 batch....pretty bloody good over ice.


----------



## Canuckdownunder

Took a punt at the mead today after picking up a demijohn from craftbrewer. It is my first try at mead so looking forward to the finished product. 
Thanks for the recipe!!!


----------



## jpkole

I just mixed my 5th batch of Joe's. This time it's a 14-gallon batch in an extract barrel (https://www.homebrewhq.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=2266). Also using blood oranges this time. Every batch of Joe's I've made has been quite nice.


----------



## _ne_

What an awesome and simple recipe. Thanks heaps for posting it.  

I put it down about 2 or 3 months ago, and just finished bottling my first batch today. It clarified about a month ago, but I decided not to wait for the fruit to drop. Its been bloody hot here (40+ with no where cool to hide a demijohn) and I started worrying about the ingredients going a bit off and imparting too much flavour. So just ran it through a fairly course filter and bottled it.

I used some pretty crappy old honey. It was so old it had completely crystallized. I had to put it in a pot of hot water just to get it flowing again. Didn't have the best flavour compared to the new stuff I got for the next batch but since this was just a test I figured I used it anyway. I used navel oranges. Like others, I used Tandaco yeast. Forgot about doing the top off. *shrug* doesn't seem to have suffered for it.

It cleared to a lovely deep orange colour like an amber ale. 

Had a taste of it (of course  and damn its nice for a first go! Much better than my first go at brewing beer haha. The cloves come through a bit strong when its warm but back off to a hint when its refrigerated. Cold, the orange comes more to the front of the palette. There's a slight alcoholic bite to it both warm and cold and it does warm the "cockles of me 'eart" briefly. The alco-burn doesn't linger though. The aftertaste is a bit 'off orange' (which makes me think I should have bottled it soon after it clarified).

I pulled a bit too much sediment through when siphoning it out of the demijohn and the filter wasn't fine enough to extract much. The last couple of bottles have a thick layer of sediment slowly settling in. I might have to rebottle before getting stuck into those. If anyone has tips on dealing with the sediment issues I'd love to hear them 

All in all though, really pleased.  Thinking I might try swapping the oranges out for similar weight in plums. Anyone tried other fruit?


----------



## jenova

Hey all,

Just went through pages of this thread and I'm interested in making my first batch.

Goomba, have you tried any other brand of yeast besides Lowan's > I'm hoping for a smooth sweet tasting mead.

Also, has anyone substituted orange with different types of fruits with success ? I was thinking blueberry, strawberry, pears, pomegranate etc.


----------



## damoninja

I have one of these as per the recipe (but scaled up to 5L) going at nuts 20 degrees now, loved the no nonsense explanation of why things are done the way they are.

Fantastic thread.


----------



## Milk-lizard84

Hi there,
Just about to have a crack at making my first mead. Just curious is this fine to bottle in a long neck amd just capped or is it better suited in say a wine bottle?
Cheers


----------



## Danwood

Personally, I re-use Pedro Ximenez sherry bottles. They have cork stoppers with plastic tops.

Works for me as I only occasionally have a glass and seal it back up.

Put it in whatever suits your mead drinking habits, I suppose.


----------



## Milk-lizard84

Cheers Danwood. I might look at getting some long neck swing tops for ease of resealing. Cheers mate.


----------



## superstock

Swingtops


----------



## Danwood

Yep, I have swingtops for my bottled beer, but I like the look of the corked bottles more for my mead.

It seems 'fancier' !


----------



## Milk-lizard84

If your using cork stoppers im assuming that mead doesn't buildup with co2 when bottled? My thought was after fermenting for more than 2 months surely it cant habe co2 left


----------



## mr_wibble

Mine has now been ageing for just under a year.

I basically made it, forgot about it (not true at all, I kept admiring its clarity / orange floaties)
When it was water-clear I bottled it... but this was some months (3?) after making it.


----------



## damoninja

Milk-lizard84 said:


> Hi there,
> Just about to have a crack at making my first mead. Just curious is this fine to bottle in a long neck amd just capped or is it better suited in say a wine bottle?
> Cheers


I was thinking of using screw cap wine bottles for easy resealing, since it's not going to be under any pressure it doesn't to need to be explosion proof.


----------



## Milk-lizard84

Cheers for the advice guys. I guess I still have ages until I can bottle it. Might go down the wine bottle track even seal it in wax to be super fancy.
Thanks again


----------



## damoninja

Milk-lizard84 said:


> Cheers for the advice guys. I guess I still have ages until I can bottle it. Might go down the wine bottle track even seal it in wax to be super fancy.
> Thanks again


Mine's been there for 20 days - I put it under the stairs and forgot about it. Occasionally I've taken a peep to see what's happening, surely enough still bubbling away.


----------



## mr_wibble

SWMBO and I tried some of this mead last night. It has now aged more than a year.

It was beautifully clear, just a tickle darker than a wheat-straw yellow.

Flavour was good, but I could not detect much of anything distinctly ... Guess that is correct to style.

It was a bit fumey, in the manner of a port wine. Will this diminish with further aging?


----------



## DannyboyDS

I just put one of these down, couldnt find any decent oranges so I peeled them and only added a fraction of the peel. My only concern is honey is very expensive and does not make allot of mead. This is my first mead experience and frankly almost my first brewing epxerience, almost.

Oh how the waiting game begins....


----------



## Milk-lizard84

My mead has been fermenting for about 6 weeks. It has cleared up a treat. Just waiting for the fruit to drop


----------



## Chookers

I made this once, and for my taste it is too sweet. That is the style I know. and I am not criticizing the recipe, it worked exactly as it said it would and I followed the instructions to the letter..

I am curious though, if I was to use Lalvin D-47 or SN9 yeast would I get something less sweet.. I don't like dry either.. I want something inbetween dry and sweet.. and if its a little fizzy that wouldn't hurt either.

I really liked the orange and spice flavours that came through and would like to preserve those.

Any one tried this recipe with these yeasts?


----------



## DannyboyDS

Man I read all 37 pages and people have used various yeasts, they have posted the results too. Have a flick through its actually an entertaining read, I cant wait for my batch to look like yours Milk-Lizard84, oh I want it NOW!


----------



## Milk-lizard84

Haha yeah I'm really looking forward to try this mead. It's my first batch but im willing to wait for awhile


----------



## DannyboyDS

I have a coopers home brew kit that has been sitting around for about a year now, I might crack it out and brew that in the mean time while I wait for this sweet sweet nectar to finish working, The hardest part will be letting it age for a month or so (short age cycle anyway) as once its in the bottles I will want to start tasting it.


----------



## damoninja

Chookers said:


> I made this once, and for my taste it is too sweet. That is the style I know. and I am not criticizing the recipe, it worked exactly as it said it would and I followed the instructions to the letter..
> 
> I am curious though, if I was to use Lalvin D-47 or SN9 yeast would I get something less sweet.. I don't like dry either.. I want something inbetween dry and sweet.. and if its a little fizzy that wouldn't hurt either.
> 
> I really liked the orange and spice flavours that came through and would like to preserve those.
> 
> Any one tried this recipe with these yeasts?


I have the same issue, way too sweet. I'm just going to throw in some SN9 and see how that goes, I'd much prefer it to be dry than as sweet as it is.


----------



## TimT

I think even when you get a dry mead sweet flavours will come through. Partly residual sugars from the honey, partly remaining aromas from the plants that the bees collect nectar from, partly something magical that the bees impart to it. The spices help too, and of course anything that you add post-primary fermentation.


----------



## DannyboyDS

who would have though fermenting bees vomit could bring so much joy?

I can't wait for this to finish, hopefully the flavour isn't too complex as I really wanted to start on something simple, for a simple pallete and work from there.


----------



## mr_wibble

I was thinking just now on my walk ...

Has anyone ever (keg) carbonated a finished JAO Mead ?

I'm sure I tried a sparkling mead once at a medieval fair.


----------



## biggo

Mr Wibble said:


> I was thinking just now on my walk ...
> 
> Has anyone ever (keg) carbonated a finished JAO Mead ?
> 
> I'm sure I tried a sparkling mead once at a medieval fair.



I have not, but I have accidently bottle carbed a JAO(My first one) it was medium to low carb and added a lot to the mouthfeel of the mead


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

I've force carbed a JAO. Was nice, but I found it a bit distracting. It made the mead feel dryer.


----------



## Milk-lizard84

So in the past week after having to move house the fruit in my mead has dropped. Was gutted when me moved as the drive over disturbed it and became cloudy again. 
Within 4 days its has become crystal clear again. Can't wait to bottle thos bad boy and actually have a taste.


----------



## MightyLolz

Thought I'd give JAO a try as my first brew, so this week I've made 2 batches: 1st batch I used Yellow Box, 2nd I used Orange Blossom, will be interesting to see the difference. Still figuring out the timer for the heating pad to try and keep it consistent, but as long as it doesn't go over 25 I'm assuming it'll be right. Now to wait 3 months!
Edit: Regarding the oranges, I went to the local fruit shop but the oranges pretty much 2 sizes, huge and small. So I grabbed 2 small ones, cut them in quarters and threw 6 in. I figure 1.5 small oranges= 1 medium orange


----------



## Trevandjo

My first mead. This will test my ability to wait patiently.


----------



## Milk-lizard84

Found some skull bottles yesterday at a gift shop yesterday. Plan on putting my next batch of mead into them. Sorry for the crooked photo.


----------



## bullsneck

booker_h said:


> I just put my second mead down in as many weeks. First one using Red Box honey from Castlemaine and a Navel orange. The second one I got a little adventurous... Wangaratta Stringybark and a Blood Orange. Can't wait to try them!!


I've only just bottled this! Whoops. 20 months in the fermenter!

Tasting great!


----------



## Trevandjo

Well the yeast has flocculated in my mead and it looks golden and clear. I plan to symphony this into wine bottles but before I do I need some guidance on what to do with the leftovers in my demijohn. Can I build a new mead on the left overs. Can I remove the spent fruit somehow or is it 'game over' for the demijohn. Cheers,
Trev


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Trevandjo said:


> Well the yeast has flocculated in my mead and it looks golden and clear. I plan to symphony this into wine bottles but before I do I need some guidance on what to do with the leftovers in my demijohn. Can I build a new mead on the left overs. Can I remove the spent fruit somehow or is it 'game over' for the demijohn. Cheers,
> Trev
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1405844269.335634.jpg


Definitely game over. I run a demijohn recycling facility though, so send it my way. 

A few hard shakes should clear the fruit.


----------



## Danwood

A piece of wire bent to form a hook does the job for me.


----------



## MightyLolz

2 months after brewing and the all of a sudden the fruits dropped! What's strange though is the only difference between the 2 is the variety of honey used. The left is yellow box, the right is orange blossom. Does anyone have thoughts on what I should do with the cloudy yellow box? Or should I just leave it longer...


----------



## AshleyDoran

Ok... So I live in far north QLD where average temps have been over 25°c... decided to give this ago anyway... This is my first attempt at brewing, and was advised to use this as a starting point.

I am now in day 3, yesterday when I inspected the batch I noticed that the bubbling and frothing had died down.. so, As per instruction, I topped the level up a bit and put it back in.

Oh why did I not wait the 4 days....

This morning when I got home from work, I went to the cupboard to inspect its progress, and immediately noticed that the volume had increased...dramatically.
To the point that my airlock was full of must and the bottom of the cupboard had a puddle where it had poured out.

TL;DR FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS VERBATIM.


----------



## petes

MightyLolz said:


> 2 months after brewing and the all of a sudden the fruits dropped! What's strange though is the only difference between the 2 is the variety of honey used. The left is yellow box, the right is orange blossom. Does anyone have thoughts on what I should do with the cloudy yellow box? Or should I just leave it longer...
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1407122768.318408.jpg


Time gone by so you've probably got it sussed; just leave it longer.


----------



## AshleyDoran

Just out of curiousity has anyone tried adding a clearing agent like gelatin? What results did you get?


----------



## superstock

AshleyDoran said:


> Just out of curiousity has anyone tried adding a clearing agent like gelatin? What results did you get?


I went really traditional and used eggshells.


----------



## Alex.Tas

what is the ideal temp for this one? i dont really want to tie up my ferm fridge for an extended period making this one. hoping garage temps should be about right...


----------



## philmud

Alex.Tas said:


> what is the ideal temp for this one? i dont really want to tie up my ferm fridge for an extended period making this one. hoping garage temps should be about right...


I'm interested in this too, happy to use my fridge for the attenuative phase (assuming it's 1-2 weeks), but are there any issues with warm temps & aging? My garage gets fricking warm.


----------



## superstock

Did mine in the fridge @ 16-18'c. When the major ferment had subsided, 5-6days, I topped it up as directed and moved it to the cupboard under the kitchen sink, about 20-24'c


----------



## Alex.Tas

mine is under the house, so probably around the 16 degree mark at this time of year. maybe 18 through summer


----------



## DannyboyDS

Just bottled my first batch of mead and am enjoying a glass right now. I was a bit naughty and did not 100% follow the instructions, though next batch I will do it to the letter as I want more and better. Have to admit this is pretty damn good though, even if I do say so myself.

Sweet and warming in the mouth, smooth all the way down with a slightly fruity aftertaste. This weekend I will put a 20ltr batch on.

Thank you Joe and thank you Brewer Pete.


----------



## plateofboxes

Went downstairs to check my version of this after two months - crystal clear! Siphoned half a glass, and while a little hot, definitely drinkable and enjoyable. Might start throwing some Tandaco into my stouts...


----------



## AshleyDoran

Is anyone else having issues with the rasins overpowering the taste of everything else?


----------



## AshleyDoran

Im guessing as noone has responded in over a week that the answer to my question is no then... :/


----------



## LiquidGold

Perhaps this is best for another thread but I have acquired some yellow box and orange blossom honey which I plan on turning into mead. Now I've only made mead using bush honey along with the JAO recipe and I'm wondering whether the subtleties of the yellow box and orange blossom will be overpowered by the other ingredients and if I would be better off fermenting them by themselves (actually with nutrients and a wine yeast of some kind). Thoughts?

To bring it back on topic my latest (4th) batch of JAO has turned out wonderful after adding 10 star anise to the original recipe (batch 2 had 1 or 2 star anise added but I couldn't taste it so went a bit harder this time around). Beautiful stuff.


----------



## blotto

I have started a JAO mead and it's down the bottom of the pantry now but I wanted to ask some advise. The pictures below are of the only demijohn I could get from Brewcraft I think it's suitable because it's easy to get the oranges in and out but what should I do for an airlock? I have gladwrap and a lacky band on there at the moment because the blue lid leaked when I was giving it a shake so I'm not sure how good it seals but the original idea was to put the airlock in the blue lid. Will the gladwrap be ok? I know heaps of people use it on full scale brewing but this is going to take 2 months to brew.





Below you can see the bung and the bottom of the airlock that I was going to use.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

That's a cray looking demijon


----------



## pk.sax

Looking to set down some of this.

Opinion please, no raisins at hanf however I have sultanas and dates.
Any chance of that being OK? Just sultanas or dates too?


----------



## blotto

I love dates so I'd be throwing them in if we didn't have a bag of raisins that the kids wont eat.


----------



## pk.sax

Cool, figured its yeast food anyway... a couple of dates per 3L batch.
have had had this tub of honey for about 2 years now! Needed to pop that cherry. Cairns bush honey...

Honey didn't all dissolve straight away but the yeast are having a rocking party.


----------



## pk.sax

Yeasts going mental. And these were out if date sachets of yeast.


----------



## carpedaym

Wort said:


> I have started a JAO mead and it's down the bottom of the pantry now but I wanted to ask some advise. The pictures below are of the only demijohn I could get from Brewcraft I think it's suitable because it's easy to get the oranges in and out but what should I do for an airlock? I have gladwrap and a lacky band on there at the moment because the blue lid leaked when I was giving it a shake so I'm not sure how good it seals but the original idea was to put the airlock in the blue lid. Will the gladwrap be ok? I know heaps of people use it on full scale brewing but this is going to take 2 months to brew.


As long as the blue lid didn't leak too much I think you'll be fine. Having said that, I personally would go with a double or triple layer of glad wrap and the rubber band, or maybe even alfoil. Either way I don't think you have big worries.


----------



## blotto

carpedaym said:


> As long as the blue lid didn't leak too much I think you'll be fine. Having said that, I personally would go with a double or triple layer of glad wrap and the rubber band, or maybe even alfoil. Either way I don't think you have big worries.


Thanks carpedaym, I left the glad wrap on it and it's working well as I can hear the gas escaping and nothing has popped yet  I'll take your advise and add alfoil when things settle down a little. Next time I'll go with the blue lid and not worry so much.


----------



## Alex.Tas

practicalfool said:


> Yeasts going mental. And these were out if date sachets of yeast.


It looks like you have half a dozen fried eggs on the top of the one on the right!
I've got 5kg of leatherwood honey on order, so i reckon I'll be making up a ~15L batch this weekend.


----------



## pk.sax

Alex.Tas said:


> It looks like you have half a dozen fried eggs on the top of the one on the right!
> I've got 5kg of leatherwood honey on order, so i reckon I'll be making up a ~15L batch this weekend.


Yeah, I remember reading a post from the op of this thread ages ago where he said to use decent oranges. The vegetables shop had these little ones for 2 bucks a small tray so into quarters and in they went. The yeast farts are smelling fantastic.


----------



## DannyboyDS

Just to add, since my last post I have resampled my mead, it has improved in leaps and bounds, what a tasty drop it has become in such a short period of time, second batch is down and this time I have done it to the letter.


----------



## zooesk

Wort said:


> I have started a JAO mead and it's down the bottom of the pantry now but I wanted to ask some advise. The pictures below are of the only demijohn I could get from Brewcraft I think it's suitable because it's easy to get the oranges in and out but what should I do for an airlock? I have gladwrap and a lacky band on there at the moment because the blue lid leaked when I was giving it a shake so I'm not sure how good it seals but the original idea was to put the airlock in the blue lid. Will the gladwrap be ok? I know heaps of people use it on full scale brewing but this is going to take 2 months to brew.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Below you can see the bung and the bottom of the airlock that I was going to use.


i had my mead in a plastic mr beer fermenter with glad wrap for the lid people say the plastic will leach air but it turned out great


----------



## blotto

zooesk said:


> i had my mead in a plastic mr beer fermenter with glad wrap for the lid people say the plastic will leach air but it turned out great


Thanks zooesk, it should keep a good layer of CO2 under the wrap to help protect it from oxygen. It's going great guns but I didn't have a spare temp controller so it's sitting at ambient at the moment 24oC :unsure: The next one I do I should have a spare stc 1000 free after I make my Brewpi. Still looking forward to see what turns out.


----------



## Alex.Tas

Threw together my mead yesterday in my second hand 15L demi (25 bucks form tipshop).
i know this recipe "is in balance" but I wanted to take the essence of this recipe and make it work for me. I mean there are countless variables within the original recipe that could alter the flavour dramatically, just to name a few:

variation in the composition of honey used based on variety
orange size, pith content oil content of skin
size of cloves/cinnamon sticks and how old they are
huge variation in the strains used in bread any given yeast without any guarantee of consistency.
So aiming for repeatability with such a recipe to me seems pointless.

So i ended up with roughly 3x the dosage of the original recipe
5kg of tassie lake gordon leatherwood honey. Apparently a strongly flavoured honey.
3 Oranges
7 cloves (not 6! - what a badass)
3 crunched up cinnamon sticks
3 handfulls of sultanas - are these the same as raisins? Dunno, I didn't have raisins.
Topped it up to 11.4L with water
3.5 tsp of Lowans bread yeast





Took the gravity reading after some good shaking at it was 1.170 adjusted for hydrometer temp. I had a think and worked out roughly that if the yeast had a tolerance of say 15% then the mead would finish at around 1.055. I dunno how sweet that will be for meads, because my last mead i made was pre hydrometer. If i use beer wort as a yard stick, its damn sweet. I'm certain that the gravity ready was correct, i tested twice after more shaking so i doubt i was just getting an unrepresentative sample.

So i diluted it to 12.25L and ended up with a slightly lower OG 1.159, hopefully for a somewhat drier finish 1.044. Worst comes to worst, i can pitch some champagne/wine yeast that has a higher tolerance to dry it out further. I probably should have done this in the first place, but i wanted to see how bread yeast would go.

Not using any temp control either. I dont want to tie up my ferm fridge for months so i put it in an old bar fridge (not turned on) with the door ajar wrapped in a towel so help it maintain some heat. obviously the yeast action is exothermic so even through the horrible weather in hobart at the moment, it should keep relatively warm.
I love controlling everything to do with my beer brewing down to the nth degree, but with this recipe i wanted to just wing it completely and honestly it was a lot of fun to make.

I'd like to know though what other people got for their OG. was mine about par for the course?
Cheers
Alex


----------



## AshleyDoran

Guys... Have done up a 25l batch however I am very concerned at the moment... there is black mould forming on top of the oranges.

Is this normal?


----------



## Grainer

AshleyDoran said:


> Guys... Have done up a 25l batch however I am very concerned at the moment... there is black mould forming on top of the oranges.
> 
> Is this normal?


This is probably cause the fruit is exposed without the sugar from the honey to inhibit the mould/bacterial growth..

this shouldn't be happening.. looks like you potentially have contamination issues... sorry...
Even tho the receipe says not to shake it I got in a habit of every few days making sure the fruit had some liquid on it with a small bump or 2 of the demi..This is common practice from what I have read in mead making to ensure the fruit is not always exposed.


----------



## AshleyDoran

Shit... im going to try to pull the fruit then, its only growing just on the fruit, not the liquid.


----------



## AshleyDoran

So this is what the oranges ended up looking like...


----------



## Grainer

yeah that don't look right.. they look funky


----------



## blotto

Hopfully you'll be alright if its just on the oranges. It doesn't look as black as I thought it would be.


----------



## Spyk

HI all, 

I'm a first timer. I have a couple of bee hives and I thought I'd give this ago with my own honey.

I've followed the instructions - but jave a question -it may well have been answered
but I cant read 40 pages of posts to check I'm afraid .

The instructions are very specific about the "Balance water to bring batch out to 3.8 litres"

Then it goes on to say "After major foaming stops in a few days add some water"

I've got mine in a 5ltr Carboy. so there's plenty of space above the 3.8Ltr mark....

How much is "some water" ? Top it up ? Leave some number of centimeters ? or
It won't matter and that's why its not specific ?

Thanks in advance - The smell coming from the carboy is wonderful - its worth doing 
just for that I think.

cheers
Spyk


----------



## Trevandjo

I think it means add water if needed to keep the level at 3.8L


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Spyk said:


> HI all,
> 
> I'm a first timer. I have a couple of bee hives and I thought I'd give this ago with my own honey.
> 
> I've followed the instructions - but jave a question -it may well have been answered
> but I cant read 40 pages of posts to check I'm afraid .
> 
> The instructions are very specific about the "Balance water to bring batch out to 3.8 litres"
> 
> Then it goes on to say "After major foaming stops in a few days add some water"
> 
> I've got mine in a 5ltr Carboy. so there's plenty of space above the 3.8Ltr mark....
> 
> How much is "some water" ? Top it up ? Leave some number of centimeters ? or
> It won't matter and that's why its not specific ?
> 
> Thanks in advance - The smell coming from the carboy is wonderful - its worth doing
> just for that I think.
> 
> cheers
> Spyk


I've never topped my JAOs up.

Read the 40 pages. It won't take an hour, and what you'll learn will save you many more.


----------



## AshleyDoran

Its actually 79 pages, just to be clear....


----------



## Alex.Tas

i had this same question a few days ago. Brewer pete clarifies this somewhere. I did a search of this topic for "water". He basically suggests that you need to top up to 3.8L if you had such vigorous activity through the airlock that you lost some liquid along the way. Also have a look at my post #780 to see my thoughts on the balance. I wouldn't stress too much.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

AshleyDoran said:


> Its actually 79 pages, just to be clear....


Definitely not worth it then


----------



## blotto

AshleyDoran said:


> Its actually 79 pages, just to be clear....


Not on my computer, this is page 40.


----------



## Deep End

My assumption was that you make it up to 3.8L then let it ferment out, as it can get a bit foamy and end up coming up through the airlock if you dont leave the headroom. Then, once fermentation has settled, you top it up to the 4.5 to 5L mark in your demi; I filled mine to the bottom of the neck. This is to reduce surface area for possible oxidisation and contamination. Then proceed as normal and get your half a dozen bottles of mead.


----------



## carpedaym

Deep End said:


> ... once fermentation has settled, you top it up to the 4.5 to 5L mark in your demi; I filled mine to the bottom of the neck. This is to reduce surface area for possible oxidisation and contamination.


This is what I've been doing, but only because I racked to another demi/carboy which would was full of air. While it's in the primary vessel there should be a good blanket of CO2 over it and I wouldn't think there was a need to worry. That opens up debate about if/when to rack and the effect of autolysis if left on the lees too long. (I must admit I haven't read this whole thread either, and whether that has been covered.)


----------



## Redracer

I just put down a mead with no fruit or spices last week. Would it be OK to add them now while it is still going or have I left it too late?


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Redracer said:


> I just put down a mead with no fruit or spices last week. Would it be OK to add them now while it is still going or have I left it too late?


I don't think it's too late. It does pose a small infection risk, but I would imagine there's plenty of yeast there and plenty of fermentation left to go to knock down any single cells sitting on a sultana.


----------



## Moad

Just found out I have access to 20L of natural honey, it has a very interesting flavour by itself. Earthy and spicy as there are few flowers in the area.

Will have a crack at mead in a few weeks...it will take me that long to read this thread.


----------



## thorg

ive just tried making mine in 3 batches each has somthing different done to it except the first one which is control not altered or deviated from the recipe, Im pretty pleased to say all 3 are doing well 4 days on. i just hope another heatwave doesnt hit QLD weather has been pretty bad this year.


----------



## thorg

is it normal to have the bottles clear at 2 weeks? cause one of them has any advice?


----------



## philmud

Made a JAO this morning. To recipe but with the inclusion of some yeast nutrient.


----------



## superstock

Prince Imperial said:


> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1422750699.574914.jpg
> Made a JAO this morning. To recipe but with the inclusion of some yeast nutrient.


The raisins are there for yeast nutrient.


----------



## philmud

Ahh ok. I've been reading up on them a bit & I know they also get added to meads for tannins, too. Hopefully they won't be so healthy they forget to crap out before it's fully fermented!


----------



## superstock

Black tea is for tannins.


----------



## philmud

Err, lots of things contain tannins. Besides JAO contains no black tea.


----------



## bingggo

Trevandjo said:


> I think it means add water if needed to keep the level at 3.8L


As a comment on the views for and against topping it up to 5L after a few days: I have only done two batches, but I topped up to 5L and all went well. It wasn't particularly foamy at the 3.8L phase. Tastes spicy mid-to-high sweetness and over 13% I'd say. 

I imagine it would be unnecessarily intense if kept at 3.8L. Also, it seems a shame not to get more bottles out of it 

Pete may have clarified this to the contrary as someone suggested, but to me his original instructions clearly indicate topping up: in choosing a 5L fermenter but only filling to 3.8L as you "need some room for some foam -- you can top off with more water after the first few days foaming frenzy".

B


----------



## AshleyDoran

Well, it has been 3 months since I bottled the 25 litre batch, and am impressed with how it has matured. My only regret is that I was (again) inpatient and probably bottled a bit too early. That being said as per discussion above, if I didnt it would have been completely ruined.


----------



## bingggo

How does this recipes turn out with wine or mead yeast?


----------



## carpedaym

bingggo said:


> How does this recipes turn out with wine or mead yeast?


I believe the use of bread yeast is intended to leave the mead sweet, somewhere between 1.020 and 1.040, from a quick look around the web. Most wine yeast will have a higher alcohol tolerance and will ferment the honey out more fully, leaving the mead more on the dry side. If you follow this path, perhaps choose a wine yeast with an alcohol tolerance that will rough land you in the aforementioned final gravity range. (I'm guessing 12–14% abv-ish.)

Here's some brief discussion on gotmead: http://www.gotmead.com/forum/showthread.php/22475-updated-JAO(ish)
^ Worth a read if you haven't found it.


----------



## Golani51

This was the mead that got me started. I have since moved on to bigger (25L batches) and better (Cactus Fruit Mead) things but always brew this one. It is at the request of my wife who rarely drinks any alcohol. Even leaving it on the yeast for an extra several months (5?) did nothing to taint it. Great stuff. An ideal first mead.


----------



## Kingy

2 batches of this today with some fresh local honey. 1st was made as per original. 2nd i used 1 and half cinnamon sticks and 2 cloves.


----------



## Croc_TFNQ

I know nothing about mead never tasted it . However I love your sense of humor with this bit :lol: *(This recipe is designed for beginners. Everyone else with an opinion can just buggar off!)*


----------



## mr_wibble

I made the 25 litre batch over easter.

It was difficult to mix $100 worth of top-quality local honey with the shitty oranges coles sells.
(i had to discard 3 rotten ones from a brand new bag)

Anyway, it seems to be fermenting along nicely. 
I hope it's making all the clothes in the wardrobe smell spicy-orange 

-kt


----------



## troopa

Mr Wibble
I have a wine fridge tucked down the back that i brewed 4 batches of Mead in over 3 years ago.. to this day the fridge still smells So damn good every time i open it, even though the demijohns were taken out 2.5 years ago


----------



## Kingy

Its hard waiting for this stuff to clear and drop out. But the one on the right is clearing up so not long now. It smells and tastes amazing. (Yep pulled a small amount out with a syringe for a tester, i was to inquisitive ) im definately going to make a full sized batch sometime before the weather warms up.


----------



## Moad

I just did a batch with some raw honey a friend had, tastes good unfermented so hopefully it turns out. 

I left out the raisins, just threw the oranges and a couple of cloves and cinnamon in. Also did a smaller batch with some oak in there that was left in the demijon from a bourbon.

Great thread


----------



## Steed

Hi Pete, thanks for the recipie! I was hunting for a mead recipie in metric and after reading your fantastic post I knew this was the one. I'm just about to add the yeast and leave it to relax in a cupboard, fairly stable 20c tempreture in there so fingers crossed. My only concern is the yeast I used (Doves Farm Quick Yeast), it includes an emulsifier sorbitan monostearate.... hopefully this won't do anything too scary to the brew.

Also, current room is ~20c and the liquid in the demijohn doesn't want to go down below 25 it seems... I've left it to aclimatise for almost two hours and very little change. Reckon it's alright to throw the yeast in at this tempreture?

Edit: Wow, the forum dreged up that photo... some mankey wort from about 5 years ago!


----------



## philmud

Here's my effort, brewed 6 months and one day ago. It's not too shabby, a bit sweet for mine, but quite smooth and the spices come through in a good amount. 
I also did a metheglin that's still in the demijohn & I'm hoping that's drier.
If I do a mead again it'll be a larger batch. As for this one, I think I'll leave it for a few more months before trying again. It's pretty good, but a couple of flavours coming through that I'm hoping will mellow.


----------



## NickZed

Good morning one and all,
Long time lurker, first time poster here....

I just put my first batch of Mead on to brew last night (as per Brewer Pete's recipe on Page 3)...

---------------------------------------
1. 1.5kg Stringy Bark Honey (purchased from Archibald Honey on line...$22 for 2 litre...really dark...yum)
2. Warm water added to Honey. Stirred slowly with spatula until liquid like pancake syrup.
3. Honey poured into 5L demijohn using small plastic funnel.
4. 8 slices of a washed and scrubbed Orange added.
5. 1 clove added.
6. 1 stick of cinnamon, smashed into pieces added.
7. 25 Raisins added.
8. Cold water to bring total volume of must to 3.8L added.
9. Closed Grolsch style lid and shook to oxygenate wort and mix in yeast.
10. S type airlock and bung fitted.
11. Airlock filled with sterilisation mixture.
12. 5L demijohn added to dark cupboard. 
13. One sachet (8 grams) of Coles Tandaco dried yeast

This morning this baby was bubbling a treat...roll on Mead.

I was wondering...what are the tell tale signs that the mead is ready for bottling...from my reading I'll be waiting 4-6 weeks until visible bubbling has disappeared and the mixture had settled down. Is there anything else that I should be looking for prior to bottling?

I'm going to bottle in some Grolsch type bottles.

Thanks
Nick


----------



## LiquidGold

Kingy's post above (#815) is a good example of how the mead clears when its ready to bottle. If you wait even longer the fruit will begin to drop to the bottom also.

Both my yellow box and orange blossom attempts have turned out quite well and I have some other honey types to try next although I'm going to go with only 1 kilo of honey for a bit less sweetness.

I'm also really keen on doing a big 20L batch but perhaps not as a JAO.


----------



## NickZed

nice one Mash Maestro, thanks


----------



## Gunplumber

G'day all. Virgin brewer here. Well unless you count coffee. 2 batches of JAO bubbling away now. Only problem might be I started too late this year for lower temps as I have no temp control. I'll keep an eye on it anyway and do my best to keep the temps down. Fingers crossed it works out for me!.


----------



## kaiserben

The OP recipe is for a 5L demijohn. 

I want to make some in a 10L cube/jerry can and was just going to double the amount of everything. Is doubling everything a good/bad idea? 

Is it okay to glad wrap (rather than air lock) during initial ferment? And then each time I rack to another cube/jerry can to squeeze as much headspace out as I can and tighten cap to seal it?


----------



## Kingy

I just bottled my 3rd batch of this and done a side by side test with some that's nearly 6months old. It's good straight out of the fermeter but it's incredible at 6months.


----------



## Kingy

Cheers


----------



## blotto

Kingy said:


> I just bottled my 3rd batch of this and done a side by side test with some that's nearly 6months old. It's good straight out of the fermeter but it's incredible at 6months.
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1447552302.446163.jpg


Hi Kingy,

I like your syphon technique here mate, can you block the short hose to stop the flow? It's very similar to one of these I've been looking at getting one. Did you drill the stopper yourself?


----------



## Kingy

Yea mate just drilled 2 holes and used beer line. I let the beer line sit up from the bottum and wet the outside with starsan so it slides easy through the rubber, as I fill the bottles I move it closer to the bottum as the sediment is fairly floaty as you know if Ya bump it. I just give a little blow in the short tube to get things going. 
I've never tried to stop the flow by blocking it as I just transfer to each bottle untill I'm done. Using beer line the flow is steady and doesn't make much mess when you move onto the next bottle.


----------



## arpie12008

Just finished making this along with another similar recipe from elswhere (Champagne yeast). The difference is huge. Yours is perfect and the other........YUCK!!! 5 different people tasting and they all loved this recipe.
THANKS, THANKS, THANKS!!!


----------



## skb

I am going to try this (yes a lame post so it stays in my history)


----------



## blotto

skb said:


> I am going to try this (yes a lame post so it stays in my history)


Just make sure you use regular oranges, I used the only ones I could find at my local little Shop and I think they were a marmalade orange. Bloody bitter as! Been sitting for about a year now so it's time to give it another test.


----------



## Deep End

I cracked my last bottle of JAO at a christmas party earlier this week. I have not tasted it since I bottled it, and then it was "Hot" and like drinking Orange Peel. I have given bottles away over time, entered them in shows etc, but never actually got down to the business of drinking it. 
I, and the half a dozen other people game enough to try my wares, were pleasantly surprised. The volatile flavours and racing fuel burn have subsided and mellowed into something quite palatable over the last 2 and half years, not dry not cloyingly sweet either. But the honey profile was there for sure, as was a hint of citrus and a touch of spice. 
One guest suggested it was reminiscent of Brandi vino (correct spelling?) I just thought it was a far more relaxed bevarage than the angry liquid it once used to be. And on that basis I am mixing up another batch of JAO this afternoon. Some other meads I have made in the meantime have had a much blander flavour profile than the JAO, so pretty happy about it to be honest.
Cheers
Deep End (Michael)


----------



## Simdop

How does/would Petes original recipe go with White Labs sweet mead yeast (WLP720)?


----------



## jewwie

I've never used WLP720, but from what I can see it has a high alcohol tolerance (15%) so it will finish very dry. I tried this recipe with a champaigne yeast and it turned out extremely hot and took 9 months to settle down. I've also made it with Tandaco bread yeast and it was delicious in only 2 and a half months. The idea of using bread yeast it has a low alcohol tolerance so will the yeast will die out and leave more residual sugar (sweetness). Plus Tandaco is a lot easier to get and cheaper.

Hope that helps.


----------



## Simdop

It does have a high tolerance but according to their description, "A wine yeast strain that is less attenuative than WLP715, leaving some residual sweetness" so I wondered if it would actually work rather well?


----------



## Simdop

Where are people getting their Fleishman's bread yeast from?


----------



## kaiserben

I made this for the first time at the weekend and just used Tandaco Dry Yeast from Coles.


----------



## Simdop

kaiserben said:


> I made this for the first time at the weekend and just used Tandaco Dry Yeast from Coles.


How's it working for you?


----------



## Simdop

jewwie said:


> I've never used WLP720, but from what I can see it has a high alcohol tolerance (15%) so it will finish very dry. I tried this recipe with a champaigne yeast and it turned out extremely hot and took 9 months to settle down. I've also made it with Tandaco bread yeast and it was delicious in only 2 and a half months. The idea of using bread yeast it has a low alcohol tolerance so will the yeast will die out and leave more residual sugar (sweetness). Plus Tandaco is a lot easier to get and cheaper.
> 
> Hope that helps.


Sure does. I misread it before. I'll give Tandaco a whirl. How do you think it would go in a big batch?


----------



## kaiserben

Simdop said:


> How's it working for you?


It's definitely fermenting. Started up very quickly (an hour or 2). It'll be a couple of months before I package it up and taste the results. 

FYI the box of Tandaco I bought has 5 x 7g sachets of yeast. So I used 7g (the recipe calls for a "teaspoon", so 7g is close enough). 

I would think 5 x 7g would be more than enough yeast for a ~25L batch.


----------



## jewwie

Hey Simdop, I would only use 2 packets of yeast for 20 to 25L (any more would just be an overkill cause those yeasties will double in population as soon as they acclimatise). If you want to deviate from the recipe (which I am not recommending), you could rehydrate your yeast for 10 to 15 minutes then pitch.
As far as "some residual Sweetness" from the WLP720 that would depend on the OG (which is high in this recipe because it is meant to be a sweet mead) but it will still be a lot drier than the bread yeast. If it was me, I'd do one batch original and one with WLP720 to compare because you don't want anyone telling you not to try something that could just turn out to be the best mead ever :super:


----------



## kaiserben

Ah bugger. I've just realised I forgot to measure OG.


----------



## jewwie

Don't you hate that. If you followed the recipe exactly it should have been around 1120 to 1130 otherwise there are calculators online that you can use to get pretty close. Just need honey weight and water volume.


----------



## Simdop

jewwie said:


> Hey Simdop, I would only use 2 packets of yeast for 20 to 25L (any more would just be an overkill cause those yeasties will double in population as soon as they acclimatise). If you want to deviate from the recipe (which I am not recommending), you could rehydrate your yeast for 10 to 15 minutes then pitch.
> As far as "some residual Sweetness" from the WLP720 that would depend on the OG (which is high in this recipe because it is meant to be a sweet mead) but it will still be a lot drier than the bread yeast. If it was me, I'd do one batch original and one with WLP720 to compare because you don't want anyone telling you not to try something that could just turn out to be the best mead ever :super:


I've got a batch of the original recipe with bread yeast going at the moment. I'm also going to do a WLP to compare as well. Given the higher alc tolerance, I was thinking of bumping the honey to 1.8 or 2kg? Any thoughts?


----------



## jewwie

Starting with too high a gravity could mean your yeast will struggle to start or stress them out which can cause "undesirable" characteristics. Also, the more honey you start with could mean a very high alcohol mead which could end up out of balance if it ferments dry. You could add the extra 200g to 400g after a few days once the yeast are bubbling away nicely and if it ferments dry, check the balance and back sweeten if necessary.


----------



## fraser_john

Six kilograms of honey, $30, local amateur bee keeper has way too much honey, taking advantage while I can to make a 15 litre batch! Should give me enough to lay bottles down to age nicely.


----------



## Wardcliff

Have read the entire thread, and five minutes ago finished putting down a (almost) double batch. 

Got 3kg of local Blue Gum Honey and bet it all on JAO to win. Hopefully I will be collecting handsome dividends in a few months.

Thanks to Brewer Pete and all the contributors to this thread (and site). I am a novice looking to learn and I believe I've come to the right place.

Cheers.


----------



## jewwie

Hey Wardcliff, good on ya! You're on your way to becoming a mazer, good luck with your mead.


----------



## clickeral

Made the original recipe with 1.6Kg of the Orange gold honey I got off here a while ago hoping it goes well as I had to sub sultanas in for the raisins  

Next batch will be the other honey I have (river gold) and then I will make a batch that is 50/50 

Hope it goes well


----------



## Simdop

I'm seriously impressed by how it suddenly clarifies when its done. I've got three batches that have all dropped out and gone clear as! One batch is 1.5months old and two are a bit over a month old!

I take it folks just leave it as is to age?


----------



## Wardcliff

So, OT, but I have never tried mead before. I tried this today, and although I didn't have it over ice, which is recommended, it tasted like ass. (Don't ask).
I have much higher hopes for this JAOM!




And further OT (sorry), I tried a couple of beer styles I've never tried before, but this site has opened me up to a whole new world. Yummmmmm!! Not home brew, I know, but the styles are definitely worth aiming for.







Sorry for staying off topic.

Cheers!


----------



## Alex.Tas

Wardcliff said:


> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1460808591.342054.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1460808637.800057.jpg
> 
> Sorry for staying off topic.
> 
> Cheers!


Both of those beers are awesome!

Good work on the JAO. You will love it...


----------



## biggo

Wardcliff said:


> So, OT, but I have never tried mead before. I tried this today, and although I didn't have it over ice, which is recommended, it tasted like ass. (Don't ask).
> I have much higher hopes for this JAOM!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1460808424.092712.jpg
> 
> And further OT (sorry), I tried a couple of beer styles I've never tried before, but this site has opened me up to a whole new world. Yummmmmm!! Not home brew, I know, but the styles are definitely worth aiming for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1460808591.342054.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1460808637.800057.jpg
> 
> Sorry for staying off topic.
> 
> Cheers!



I don't think Maxwell's meads are great commercial example, they are the oldest just not the best, try Stone Dog Meadery in NSW they will be similar in style to the new world SA


----------



## Kingy

had a bit of honey left over after making another 2 batches of mead. So I made this up. Loosely based on a few recipes floating around cyberspace.

Not sure how it's going to taste at the end but it's tasting good as it ferments.

2litres of honey
The juice of 1 and half lemons and limes.
1kg frozen blueberries 
1tsp yeast nutrient (brewman)
Uso5
Topped upto 14litres
Sg 1.070 (not sure if accurate or not)
I plan on dry hopping 1.5gm litre of cascade and maybe some more blueberries and maybe 100gms of grated ginger.

After Its finished I'll rack to a glass demijohn with a spoon of sugar and let it sit for a while 2months hopefully. 

Carbonate and drink. 
Hope it tastes as good as it sounds. 

Also home made jao hits maxwells for 6


----------



## Wardcliff

biggo said:


> I don't think Maxwell's meads are great commercial example, they are the oldest just not the best, try Stone Dog Meadery in NSW they will be similar in style to the new world SA


Thanks biggo, I'll keep an eye out. 

Cheers


----------



## kaiserben

Bottled my first batch of JAOM last night. 

It had spent 10 weeks in the demijohn. All the bits and pieces had dropped weeks ago and it looked clear (although after I moved it to prepare for bottling it didn't look so clear anymore. I went ahead and bottled anyway). 

It smelled great. Tasted okay at room temperature. There seemed to be a little bit of fusel alcohol present. 

From reading this thread I assume it won't benefit from sitting around in bottles for any extra period of time? Just go ahead and drink them all? (and get to making more).


----------



## Kingy

In my experience mead gets better with age. 6-9months it really starts to mellow. I just bottled a batch that I started in September last year haha. I thought it would be shit but it is brilliant. 

My experience When bottling this mead, if you move it to a bottling place your better off leaving it a few hours for it to settle down, (even move it a few days before you plan on bottling) the clearer it is going into the bottle the better.
Nothing better than a really clear clean mead.


----------



## jewwie

Your mead will definitely improve with age. If you've bottled them slightly cloudy, the sediment will settle out and you can just decant them when you serve them.

For clearer meads I would recommend bottling from secondary rather than primary. I put them into secondary and then swirl every week for a month or so to get whatever dead yeasts into suspension (IMO it helps with dissipating the fusels too). This seems to pick up any other floaties and drop them to the bottom. After I've done that a few times I'll leave it for another month (or longer if you can wait) and then cold crash for a week. You'll have crystal clear meads then.


----------



## Simdop

So when do you guys recommend moving JAO to secondary?
Once it clears up as indicating that the primary is done do you wait another month then secondary? Or two months?


----------



## jewwie

Personally, I wait until fermentation has stopped and the fruit has dropped. It doesn't matter if it isn't completely clear as you will be clearing mostly in secondary (and tertiary if you're one that wants to keep racking). I want get my mead off the yeast lees and fruit at around the 3 month mark.


----------



## GregMeady

After reading the first 41 pages of this thread I couldn't stand it any longer, so I made up a batch today. Followed the recipe on page 1, the honey I used was the 1.5kg Beechworth Honey from Woolly's. Needing 1.6kg as per recipe, I had to buy 2. It's really dark though I hope it's ok as you can tell from the picture below.  The water is from my water delivery guy...Top Drop...reverse osmosis stuff, nothing in it...for now anyway
I had to improvise to make an airlock, using the beechworth honey container with the bottom cut off, Made a hole in the lid, which in the end was too big for the plastic tubing that I used to make a loop with water in it... :unsure:
I now needed a gasket to fill the space out of a baby bottle teet with the top cut off it all came together nicely and my mead is happy because it now has an airlock B)
The waiting is going to kill me


----------



## GregMeady

Woke up this morning and ran out to check my mead. I expected to see ka-blooping and bubbling like crazy. Got there and no ka-blooping and no bubbles. I guess this was due to the overnight temp here being about 10c. Thinking I had no chance and would have to ditch it, proclaiming woah ways me. Went back to read the first few pages of the thread again to see if anyone else had had a problem with temp. Then I suddenly remembered that I had an old heat pad that I used to use for growing plant cuttings. Revved that up, and now I am starting to see bubbles, still no ka-blooping, but it's looking ok.


----------



## Kingy

I just use glad wrap on the opening with an elastic band over it. Airlocks are overrated. I probably wouldn't even use a heat mat (heating the yeast trub up could give off flavours especially as meads get quite thick on the bottom) just leave it alone and forget about it for 3 months [emoji2]


----------



## GregMeady

Kingy said:


> I just use glad wrap on the opening with an elastic band over it. Airlocks are overrated. I probably wouldn't even use a heat mat (heating the yeast trub up could give off flavours especially as meads get quite thick on the bottom) just leave it alone and forget about it for 3 months [emoji2]


Took your advice and ended up not using the heat mat. Had some left over honey too, so got another one going, using gladwrap and a lacky band. Cant wait to see how they turn out.


----------



## fraser_john

Bottling this bad boy today, 20 litres @13.8%

Unlike the recipe recommendations, I added nutrients, added oxygen, used Ruby Red Grapefruit instead of oranges and Red Muscatel Raisins. The result is a citrusy, dry mead, pretty happy with it. Added sulphites to 0.8 mg/L to ensure it lasts a long time in the bottle.

Cheers


----------



## The Big D

Just put down my first JAO yesterday following the recipe to a T. I'm on the far north coast of NSW so we shouldnt be having too many troubles. It's on a dark bench away from sunlight and excess heat. I used a whole sachet of tandaco bread yeast, as did my best mate who was making it alongside me. His uses 2 cloves. Let's see how this turns out!
Update: Not too much bubbling, one bloop approx every two seconds. Now to hurry up and wait ^_^


----------



## kuppcakes

Tried this recipe and it came out fantastic!


----------



## paulyman

Since this topic was reawakened I thought I may as well have a go as well. Looking forward to this one given the price for a commercial example of mead.


----------



## kjparker

Well i just bottled a batch of this I made over a year ago. Dont remember exactly how long, might have been closer to two....

Was worried it might have had something go wrong after that long, but it has been at stable temps, and undisturbed the whole time.

Just finished a glass of it and it was liquid gold! 

Very happy! It was a double batch as well!


----------



## GalBrew

I've had a taste of a batch I made about a month ago. It is clearing up and is around 12% ABV. It tastes very nice but it is far to sweet for me. Has anyone watered it down a touch to drop the sweetness? I know the recipe states that everything is balanced to perfection but obviously I am a bigger fan of drier meads.


----------



## knot_gillty

My first attempt at any home brewing.. Followed the recipe and sterilization how I should. Did what BP did in original post and added an extra clove in one but also an extra half a cinnamon stick. Not sure how it'll end up but I guess I'll have to wait and see...

Might have to start another brew on the weekend with a different recipe.


----------



## knot_gillty

Now have one batch clearing nicely, the other not so much. Time will tell. I do have patience so I will wait...


----------



## mongey

never had a proper mead before so gonna try this

excuse my mead ignorance but is there any particular way it should be bottled ? you don't carbonate it do you ?

and is the bread yeast just the dried stuff form coles or wollies ?


----------



## knot_gillty

mongey said:


> never had a proper mead before so gonna try this
> 
> excuse my mead ignorance but is there any particular way it should be bottled ? you don't carbonate it do you ?
> 
> and is the bread yeast just the dried stuff form coles or wollies ?



I didn't carbonate mine. I bottled mine in a few stubbies, couple of corked bottles and a few swing top bottles.


----------



## GalBrew

I diluted mine with some carbonated water I have on tap down to about 5% ABV. It was quite nice at the lower strength and sweetness. The touch of carbonation didn't hurt either.


----------



## kaiserben

So I've no made and tasted 2 batches based off JAO Mead. 

The first batch was made just as the recipe says. I found it to be pretty good, but a little too bitter (I think maybe I cut the orange into smaller bits (thus more pith surface area contact) to get them past the demijohn's neck. 

My second batch was a definite improvement. I did a side-by-side taste of batches 1 & 2 and much preferred the second batch despite the first batch being 8 months older. 

The things I did differently for the second batch: 

The second batch was a bigger batch (7.7L instead of 3.8L) 
I did not scale up the other ingredient amounts (used the same 1 orange cut into 8 pieces, 25 raisins, 1 clove, 1 cinnamon stick). 
I used 5 grams of D-47 yeast (plus Go-Ferm for rehydration) instead of supermarket Tandaco brand yeast, 
Had higher starting and finishing gravities than the regular JOAM recipe (my Batch 2 was SG of 1.146, FG of 1.049). 
I gave batch 2 some pure O2 when pitching yeast. 
I added 2g Fermaid A and 3g DAP 3 days after pitching the yeast. 
I stirred up the must every few days for the first couple of weeks before leaving it be. 
First batch spent 9 weeks in demijohn, while second batch spent 11 weeks in demijohn.


----------



## mtb

Even just two months after bottling this goodness, it blows the socks off anyone who tastes it. I'm very happy with the clarity too; zero sediment in the bottle, which is especially surprising considering I had to mouth-siphon from the demijohn using just some sanitised silicone tube.

(ignore the ABV rating on that label.. it's not correct)






Now got a 15L batch bubbling away, plus two 5L batches, one with cherry and another with sour cherry. Smells delish.


----------



## knot_gillty

Ginger, cranberry and vanilla additions hey? Sounds bloody good mtb!!! I'll be doing another couple in the next few weeks. Might do a similar one to yours. Have you a recipe for this on here anywhere?


----------



## mtb

Thanks mate. It was the standard JAOM recipe, but with the addition of 80C pasteurised ginger paste, a short-boiled vanilla bean, and half of the sultanas were subbed for dried cranberries. The berries contributed some extra tannins I reckon, but I didn't do a non-cranberry batch for comparison.


----------



## mtb

A bit more mead porn. Biofine worked wonders in clearing this up!


----------



## knot_gillty

How do you find the Ironbark and Yellow Box honeys? The ones I’ve got going at the moment have Grey Box and Round Leaf Box and I’m not entirely fond of them... 

Not really sure if it’s the honey or the yeast or the things I’ve added to the different batches. It’s just not really nice.. My JAOs were great, my “bourbon oak” tastes like shit (well, more metho/alcohol than actual shit!!), same as the traditional. The others I haven’t tried yet. 

Missus told me to do some “like the last lot”. So my next lot will be some more JAOM! With a hint of ginger and vanilla thanks to the idea from mtb!!


----------



## mtb

knot_gillty said:


> How do you find the Ironbark and Yellow Box honeys? The ones I’ve got going at the moment have Grey Box and Round Leaf Box and I’m not entirely fond of them...
> Not really sure if it’s the honey or the yeast or the things I’ve added to the different batches. It’s just not really nice.. My JAOs were great, my “bourbon oak” tastes like shit (well, more metho/alcohol than actual shit!!), same as the traditional. The others I haven’t tried yet.
> Missus told me to do some “like the last lot”. So my next lot will be some more JAOM! With a hint of ginger and vanilla thanks to the idea from mtb!!


This batch is two months from yeast pitch and I can confirm it tastes better than the last one - and the last one had people urging me to accept $100 for a single bottle. I'm not kidding. Ironbark/Yellowbox gets my vote, it's a flavour hard to describe since I am uneducated swine. But it's good.


----------



## breakbeer

This is my attempt at the JAOM, fermented for around 18 months. Pretty happy with the clarity of it & tastes sensational! 
Gonna make a couple more batches, one exactly the same recipe & another with a few different additions


----------



## knot_gillty

mtb said:


> This batch is two months from yeast pitch and I can confirm it tastes better than the last one - and the last one had people urging me to accept $100 for a single bottle. I'm not kidding. Ironbark/Yellowbox gets my vote, it's a flavour hard to describe since I am uneducated swine. But it's good.



Yeah my flavour descriptions probably won’t be anything like it is, also an uneducated swine... 

I’ll give yellow box and iron bark a crack then I suppose. The mob I get my honey from has a lemon one that is awesome!! I’ll be trying this one day too. I’ll keep experimenting, eventually find something I like.


----------



## knot_gillty

Was this the stuff you used mtb?


----------



## mtb

knot_gillty said:


> Was this the stuff you used mtb?
> 
> 
> View attachment 109501


Can't recall sorry. It came from a jar I think. Basically same stuff though


----------



## knot_gillty

Got a batch on last night with the ginger paste in it. 

1.4kg of rainforest blend honey from Port Douglas, 1 orange, 2 cloves, 1 cinnamon stick, dash of all spice, dash and a bit of nutmeg, 25 raisins, about 40g ginger paste. OG of 1.116. Tasted it and holy shit was it nice!!!!! Loved the ginger taste, the honey is sensational too. Really looking forward to this one being done. Got another 9kg of honey ready for some other meads tomorrow.


----------



## Wolfman1

I've just put my first try of these down with the standard recipe. It got up and running pretty quick so it looks to have taken. 
I don't have a warm cabinet for fermenting but I've got a big wooden box with shelves in the shed that I keep bottles and spare kit in which reduces temperature fluctuations but it's pretty cool. Probably 12° in summer and 8° in winter. I'm in no pressing rush so I'm assuming that it will just take longer for it to fully ferment out and clear. Am I better to get a heat pad and make an insulated box within a box?


----------



## captain crumpet

I use fresh/wet blocks of yeast for my breads, can i use it for this recipe or should i stick with dry yeast?


----------



## breakbeer

Any tips on getting all the big chunks of orange etc out of the 5L demijon?


----------



## mtb

breakbeer said:


> Any tips on getting all the big chunks of orange etc out of the 5L demijon?


I use the long plastic handle of one of my brewing spoons to lever them out. Tongs might be a good choice too


----------



## knot_gillty

breakbeer said:


> Any tips on getting all the big chunks of orange etc out of the 5L demijon?



I used a wire coat hanger I think it was at first. Then I just found it easy enough to use my finger and drag them out. Anything pretty much will work.


----------



## barls

hook end of a bottle brush


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## knot_gillty

Just bottled my ginger JAO. 14.2% ABV, tastes quite nice. No strong ginger overtones, Orange was pretty mellow. Tastes stronger than 14.2% though.


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## knot_gillty

Question. What do you guys do with this bit??






Keep for yeast rehydration? Put on ice cream? Feed to the annoying neighbours kid?? Throw out?


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## mtb

Was that the one you chucked a vanilla bean into KG?

Did you biofine before bottling? I found that the bottled product differed heavily when fined


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## mtb

knot_gillty said:


> Question. What do you guys do with this bit??
> 
> Keep for yeast rehydration? Put on ice cream? Feed to the annoying neighbours kid?? Throw out?



Not worth the space for yeast rehydration considering it's bread yeast.
Chuck it at children.


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## knot_gillty

mtb said:


> Was that the one you chucked a vanilla bean into KG?
> 
> Did you biofine before bottling? I found that the bottled product differed heavily when fined



Dickhead me forgot to buy the vanilla beans but I put some ginger paste in it. I think the recipe is about 10 posts up. Initial tasting when checking OG had more ginger flavour. I think next time I will use full tube, not half.

ed- nah, didn’t biofine. I’ll have to get some.


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## mtb

I reckon stick with the ginger addition you made - but fining is necessary to let that flavour come through. Two weeks' chilling with a fining agent had the bottled product completely clear and I definitely noticed the difference.


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## knot_gillty

I’ll check my LHBS for some. Not sure this will last a week... Bottled it to take away for Christmas, not sure it will make it that long!!!


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## mtb

You can get away with gelatin if you can't get your hands on biofine - and I doubt your LHBS will have some, I got mine from Craftbrewer. Either way, super clear mead, and the flavour really benefits.

Still - your Christmas will be well supplied


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## Rod Lowe

Well after months of reading and thinking I have finally had a crack at this mead making business. A pair of twin JAOs following the OP but with Tandaco bread yeast from Woolies. Photo is two hours after pitching yeast and all seems to be progressing well. Looking forward to the end result but have 10 more demijohns to fill so will be trying other recipes too. I am particularly keen on a sweet traditional, so that will be the next trial batch.


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## knot_gillty

Good stuff Rod. It turns into quite a nice drop. What I might try next is to upscale it into a bigger fermenter so I can sink the ingredients under the surface. See if that has any type of effect on it. 

We’ve just headed off on a couple week trip and I put in a couple of bottles of my last JAO. I’ll let you know how that tastes. Added ginger paste in it.


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## mtb

knot_gillty said:


> Good stuff Rod. It turns into quite a nice drop. What I might try next is to upscale it into a bigger fermenter so I can sink the ingredients under the surface. See if that has any type of effect on it.
> 
> We’ve just headed off on a couple week trip and I put in a couple of bottles of my last JAO. I’ll let you know how that tastes. Added ginger paste in it.


Don't you forget that vanilla bean.


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## Rod Lowe

Being my first batch I stuck to the recipe as warned, so I supposedly have no one to blame if it falls over. Adding ginger and or vanilla bean sounds nice though. I am worried how I wi get the oranges out of the demijohn, I hope they just turn to slop. I really had to squeeze the portions together them into the jar ;-)


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## knot_gillty

They’ll come out no worries mate. Once you’ve syphoned off your good stuff just tip it upside down and give it a few shakes. They’ll work their way to the mouth of the demijohn then stick your finger in and drag them out.


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## Rod Lowe

knot_gillty said:


> They’ll come out no worries mate. Once you’ve syphoned off your good stuff just tip it upside down and give it a few shakes. They’ll work their way to the mouth of the demijohn then stick your finger in and drag them out.


Thanks for the tip Gilly.


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## knot_gillty

So I tasted my ginger JAO tonight. Could definitely taste the orange in it. The ginger was very faint but it was there. Not sure if accidentally leaving the cloves out has any impact on any of it. It’s feels a lot stronger than the 14.2% ABV. It’s a great drop to have while having a beer. 

Interestingly I mixed a bit of soda water in half a horn (drinking in horn mugs...) with it and it was a little smoother if you like. Obviously weakened it but it was slightly more pleasant. 

I don’t think I’m at 100% with this yet. I’ll try it with decent yeast, different honey, a few different ingredients (won’t forget the vanilla bean mtb!!). 

I’m enjoying it and that’s why I started brewing it. My mate that I usually drink with seems to enjoy it so that’s a bonus.


----------



## kcurnow

So put down my first mead this morning. Just followed the standard JAO recipe so will be interested to see how it turns out. OG 1120!! Just a little higher than I am used to with Brewing.


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## knot_gillty

Is that a double brew size? It’s going to be mighty orangey! Good luck with it, I’m sure you’ll make many more.


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## kcurnow

knot_gillty said:


> Is that a double brew size? It’s going to be mighty orangey! Good luck with it, I’m sure you’ll make many more.



Yep it’s a double batch.


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## Ronwales

I just bought all of the ingredients for this recipe and realised I bought allowrie brand of honey, which has been on the news lately. Has anyone used this brand with good results? Or should I return it too the shops. On the news it was labelled fake honey...which is a bit concerning


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## wide eyed and legless

I got caught with the fake honey a few months ago, came from India, ended up giving it away to Foodbank Vic
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09...arkets-accused-of-selling-fake-honey/10187628


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## Ronwales

wide eyed and legless said:


> I got caught with the fake honey a few months ago, came from India, ended up giving it away to Foodbank Vic
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09...arkets-accused-of-selling-fake-honey/10187628


I just exchanged it at woolworths, got some bechworth 100% australian honey instead. Making it tomorrow hopefully.


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## Ronwales

wide eyed and legless said:


> I got caught with the fake honey a few months ago, came from India, ended up giving it away to Foodbank Vic
> https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09...arkets-accused-of-selling-fake-honey/10187628


Did you try this recipe? Was wondering how much you top it off after the active fermentation has ceased.


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## Danscraftbeer

Ronwales said:


> Did you try this recipe? Was wondering how much you top it off after the active fermentation has ceased.


I'm waiting for mine to show no bubbles rising. Its very clear, still tiny bubbles rising after 2 months.
Top Off? Do you mean racking it? I racked to secondary after 1 month. Then recently used bentonite to clear it. Thats when I can now see its still got lots of tiny bubbles rising! 
I want to at least have one of my Meads to be in a serving bottle for Christmas!


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## Ronwales

Danscraftbeer said:


> I'm waiting for mine to show no bubbles rising. Its very clear, still tiny bubbles rising after 2 months.
> Top Off? Do you mean racking it?


I think the recipe said fill to 3.8 litres leaving space for the high krausen. And then top up after froth has settled. Top up with water I guess, I'm not going to use a secondary.


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## Ronwales

Danscraftbeer said:


> I'm waiting for mine to show no bubbles rising. Its very clear, still tiny bubbles rising after 2 months.
> Top Off? Do you mean racking it? I racked to secondary after 1 month. Then recently used bentonite to clear it. Thats when I can now see its still got lots of tiny bubbles rising!
> I want to at least have one of my Meads to be in a serving bottle for Christmas!


2months and still bubbling , that's gotta suck. Hopefully it will mellow out soon. Can't rush it I guess


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## Danscraftbeer

I broke the rule of the Original recipe by racking to secondary. I didnt like the idea of leaving so long on the yeast cake with all that orange/and peel breaking down that slowly for what may be 3 months. It does taste good so far though.


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## Ronwales

Danscraftbeer said:


> I broke the rule of the Original recipe by racking to secondary. I didnt like the idea of leaving so long on the yeast cake with all that orange/and peel breaking down that slowly for what may be 3 months. It does taste good so far though.


I used mangroves jack yeast because I couldn't find the Fleishman's yeast. I don't know how I'm going to get the oranges out lol


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## markp

I did a batch of this and also used mj mead yeast, I left it in the fermenter until the fruit dropped out (about 4 months) and it cleared naturally, no topping up from the original 3.8 litres. Tastes fantastic !


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## Ronwales

markp said:


> I did a batch of this and also used mj mead yeast, I left it in the fermenter until the fruit dropped out (about 4 months) and it cleared naturally, no topping up from the original 3.8 litres. Tastes fantastic !


Was it hard getting oranges out?


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## markp

Ronwales said:


> Was it hard getting oranges out?



No, they basically end up so soft they pretty much fall apart !


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## wide eyed and legless

Ronwales said:


> Did you try this recipe? Was wondering how much you top it off after the active fermentation has ceased.


Wasn't for mead Ron I was going to put it in a beer after reading Gordon Strong's book, he actually makes mead as well I don't know if any of his recipes are out there.


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## Ronwales

wide eyed and legless said:


> Wasn't for mead Ron I was going to put it in a beer after reading Gordon Strong's book, he actually makes mead as well I don't know if any of his recipes are out there.


Has any one used french oak on this recipe. Thinking about using some chips for my second batch


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## Ronwales

markp said:


> I did a batch of this and also used mj mead yeast, I left it in the fermenter until the fruit dropped out (about 4 months) and it cleared naturally, no topping up from the original 3.8 litres. Tastes fantastic !


Did you use whole packet of my yeast? I did without thinking and I hope all the honey flavour doesn't get fermented out.


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## markp

Ronwales said:


> Did you use whole packet of my yeast? I did without thinking and I hope all the honey flavour doesn't get fermented out.



Ron I just used 1/2 the packet.


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## Ronwales

markp said:


> Ron I just used 1/2 the packet.


Do u think I might of stuffed it by adding the whole pack?


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## markp

Ronwales said:


> Do u think I might of stuffed it by adding the whole pack?



No I don’t think so, the old boy a my lhbs always says an over pitch is better than an underpitch, prob not ideal but the end result should be ok.


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## Ronwales

markp said:


> No I don’t think so, the old boy a my lhbs always says an over pitch is better than an underpitch, prob not ideal but the end result should be ok.


Cheers


----------



## Danscraftbeer

Ronwales said:


> Do u think I might of stuffed it by adding the whole pack?


If you use a pitch rate calculator (I do) you may find that the whole pack is very close to standard correct pitch rate. i frowned at the 3g whatever quoted in the original recipe but then again the writer made strong points not to deviate from the original recipe. The idea is that the yeast isnt strong enough to completely ferment the high gravity so it will stall and leave some sweetness in sugars un-fermented.
I struggle with this theory though. Especially if you bottle it you could end up with bottle bombs so I prefer the idea of better pitch rate to ferment it out fully.
$0.02


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## Ronwales

Danscraftbeer said:


> If you use a pitch rate calculator (I do) you may find that the whole pack is very close to standard correct pitch rate. i frowned at the 3g whatever quoted in the original recipe but then again the writer made strong points not to deviate from the original recipe. The idea is that the yeast isnt strong enough to completely ferment the high gravity so it will stall and leave some sweetness in sugars un-fermented.
> I struggle with this theory though. Especially if you bottle it you could end up with bottle bombs so I prefer the idea of better pitch rate to ferment it out fully.
> $0.02


Cheers buddy


----------



## Ronwales

Ronwales said:


> Cheers buddy


I guess time well tell


----------



## Danscraftbeer

Time for sure. I used the full pack of MJ Mead yeast too and it still looks like it will take three months! Its been 50 days and still looks a long way off finishing.


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## Ronwales

Danscraftbeer said:


> Time for sure. I used the full pack of MJ Mead yeast too and it still looks like it will take three months! Its been 50 days and still looks a long way off finishing.


It's smelling delicious, not in a rush I'm thinking at least 6 months berore tasting good


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## Danscraftbeer

Ronwales said:


> It's smelling delicious, not in a rush I'm thinking at least 6 months berore tasting good


I somewhat listened to this podcast while brewing. https://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast/brew-files-episode-40-session-mead-kiley-gwynn
It talks about Session Mead. Lower ABV, carbonated, served chilled etc that can be in your keg in two weeks. It talks about multiple additions of yeast nutrient to make it all brew out faster.
Maybe worth a listen. I would like one of these on tap for Christmas.


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## Ronwales

Danscraftbeer said:


> Time for sure. I used the full pack of MJ Mead yeast too and it still looks like it will take three months! Its been 50 days and still looks a long way off finishing.


How's your jao going? Mine is still cloudy as hell. My mate did his with the bakers yeast and it cleared up crystal clear in 2 months. Next jao I make is definitely going to be with bakers yeast


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## Troy711

Hi everyone, new comer here. I’ve just bottled my first batch of JAOM which was exactly as the recipe said. I haven’t sampled it yet (damn it smells strong) but I’m pretty excited that it’s worked. I used orange blossom honey for this batch

I’m just wondering if anyone has substituted the oranges out for something like pears or nectarines and blueberries instead of sultanas. 

Any advice is appreciated. 

Here’s a picture of my first bottles (if I’ve attached it correctly)


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## MattSR

Looks amazing mate, I want to try it!


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## Ronwales

Troy711 said:


> Hi everyone, new comer here. I’ve just bottled my first batch of JAOM which was exactly as the recipe said. I haven’t sampled it yet (damn it smells strong) but I’m pretty excited that it’s worked. I used orange blossom honey for this batch
> 
> I’m just wondering if anyone has substituted the oranges out for something like pears or nectarines and blueberries instead of sultanas.
> 
> Any advice is appreciated.
> 
> Here’s a picture of my first bottles (if I’ve attached it correctly)


Looks tasty, I can't wait till mine clears up. I should have stuck to the damn recipe and used bakers yeast..


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## Troy711

So I decided to bite the bullet and try a batch with nectarines, blueberries and bloodwood honey. I deleted the clove from the original recipe and added just a touch more nutmeg, an extra cinnamon stick and a full split vanilla bean. I’m just waiting for it to come back down to room temperature before adding the yeast but so far it looks and smells amazing. The pictures don’t do it justice, the colour is such a deep nutty red. I was a little worried the honey would be too much but I’ve read a few people on here have used it with great success.


----------



## markp

Ronwales said:


> Looks tasty, I can't wait till mine clears up. I should have stuck to the damn recipe and used bakers yeast..



Don’t get impatient ronwales, I used mj mead yeast and it was worth the wait [emoji2]


----------



## Ronwales

markp said:


> Don’t get impatient ronwales, I used mj mead yeast and it was worth the wait [emoji2]


Lol how long did your's take?


----------



## Chris Gillott

Mine went down earlier in the week... One orange, one cumquat 
Orange OG 1.105 (25 Brix)
Cumquat a massive OG 1.169 (38 Brix)

They will both need watering down once the initial feeding frenzy has died down a little...obviously.
I'll monitor until ferment ceases, check SGs and then split, dilute a little and repitch if need be...


----------



## markp

Ronwales said:


> Lol how long did your's take?



I left it about 4 months and waited till the fruit started to drop, it was pretty clear when I put it into flagons.


----------



## markp

Chris Gillott said:


> Mine went down earlier in the week... One orange, one cumquat
> Orange OG 1.105 (25 Brix)
> Cumquat a massive OG 1.169 (38 Brix)
> 
> They will both need watering down once the initial feeding frenzy has died down a little...obviously.
> I'll monitor until ferment ceases, check SGs and then split, dilute a little and repitch if need be...



Chris if you went by the original recipe and start vol was 3.8L from memory don’t water it down !


----------



## Troy711

Bit of an update on my nectarine/blueberry bloodwood mead. The colour has changed from a copper colour to a cloudy orange. It’s fizzing away like someone has dropped a dozen alkaseltzers in there and the airlock is bubbling like a demon. It smells amazing, there’s a hint of nectarine and the honey smell is really strong.


----------



## Chris Gillott

markp said:


> Chris if you went by the original recipe and start vol was 3.8L from memory don’t water it down !



Why Mark?

I did tweak the recipie a bit given I used cumquats in syrup rather than an orange in one of them.

BUT, given the specific gravity noted (1.169 and 1.105) it seems to me that the (baker's) yeast will die off (it seems to have a tolerance of between 12-14% ABV) before the sugars are all used up. 
On my maths, assuming all sugars are used up, they should ferment to nearly 27% and 15% respectively..


----------



## markp

Chris Gillott said:


> Why Mark?
> 
> I did tweak the recipie a bit given I used cumquats in syrup rather than an orange in one of them.
> 
> BUT, given the specific gravity noted (1.169 and 1.105) it seems to me that the (baker's) yeast will die off (it seems to have a tolerance of between 12-14% ABV) before the sugars are all used up.
> On my maths, assuming all sugars are used up, they should ferment to nearly 27% and 15% respectively..



Purely because the original recipe was meant for 3.8l total volume, it’s a bit misleading by the way it’s worded but if you reread the recipe you will see what I mean. I don’t think any sg calculations are really meant to be taken into account for this mead recipe as it is ancient orange mead.


----------



## Troy711

An update on my latest batch. It’s starting to clear up already and is getting back it’s original coppery colour. Air lock activity has almost stopped. It still smells great.


----------



## cwright

Troy711 said:


> An update on my latest batch. It’s starting to clear up already and is getting back it’s original coppery colour. Air lock activity has almost stopped. It still smells great.


Hi 11qqqA 11QQ QA1+!+121111111111


----------



## Ronwales

markp said:


> I left it about 4 months and waited till the fruit started to drop, it was pretty clear when I put it into flagons.


My fruit just dropped and looking nice and clear might bottle tomorrow. Looking forward to tasting a sample before bottling.


----------



## Ronwales

Troy711 said:


> Hi everyone, new comer here. I’ve just bottled my first batch of JAOM which was exactly as the recipe said. I haven’t sampled it yet (damn it smells strong) but I’m pretty excited that it’s worked. I used orange blossom honey for this batch
> 
> I’m just wondering if anyone has substituted the oranges out for something like pears or nectarines and blueberries instead of sultanas.
> 
> Any advice is appreciated.
> 
> Here’s a picture of my first bottles (if I’ve attached it correctly)


Did u try it with blueberries?


----------



## Troy711

Ronwales said:


> Did u try it with blueberries?


I did with a second batch. See previous posts for pictures. This one turned out with a really dry flavor to it and I think it’s fantastic.


----------



## Troy711

I put another batch on a week or so ago, this time it’s almost a tropical mead. I’ve used bluetop iron bark honey, cinnamon, nutmeg, half a clove, pineapple, mango, passionfruit, lime and a small knob of fresh ginger. It smells great and is slowly clearing up. Will post updates when it’s ready to bottle.


----------



## Ronwales

Troy711 said:


> I put another batch on a week or so ago, this time it’s almost a tropical mead. I’ve used bluetop iron bark honey, cinnamon, nutmeg, half a clove, pineapple, mango, passionfruit, lime and a small knob of fresh ginger. It smells great and is slowly clearing up. Will post updates when it’s ready to bottle.


I just put down a 2 gallon mango mead i cant wait !!!


----------



## SKBugs

Ronwales said:


> I just put down a 2 gallon mango mead i cant wait !!!


Hey, what how much mango did you use? And how did you prepare the mango? Deseed, or peel etc.

I've been very interested in a mango mead.

Cheers


----------



## Ronwales

SKBugs said:


> Hey, what how much mango did you use? And how did you prepare the mango? Deseed, or peel etc.
> 
> I've been very interested in a mango mead.
> 
> Cheers


3kg of honey , 
2kg frozen woolworths brand mango 2teaspoon yeast nutrient 
lalvin ec 1118 yeast
8litres water


----------



## Ronwales

Ronwales said:


> 3kg of honey ,
> 2kg frozen woolworths brand mango 2teaspoon yeast nutrient
> lalvin ec 1118 yeast
> 8litres water


16gms of pectin too.


----------



## The hop cartel

Currently doing a capsicumel using Fatalii chilli's. I'm predicting it's going to be very hot number


----------



## Ronwales

The hop cartel said:


> Currently doing a capsicumel using Fatalii chilli's. I'm predicting it's going to be very hot numberView attachment 115242
> View attachment 115243


Do you use nutrients?


----------



## The hop cartel

Ronwales said:


> Do you use nutrients?


Steeped orange peel in black tea and 1 add about 20 to 30 chop raisins to the Must


----------



## The hop cartel




----------



## dozerz

tasted my traditional last night after 8 weeks in primary and is fantastic. plan to cold crash it then oak it for a week. depending on the outcome may do cinnamon and vanilla before carbing.


----------



## AshleyDoran

So, I made a batch of JAO around 6 years ago, froze it to remove most of the water content, bottled it with some more honey and then left it.

6 years later, I have somthing that almost tastes like honey port. this is just a little bottle but I still have about 3 liters of it left. 

My next plan it to introduce some oak flavor to finish, and then add a vanilla pod as I put them in their final bottles.

this recipe, if you can be patient, is well worth the effort.


----------



## iamacup

Hi folks,
Thread necro for the mead makers. 
I'm pretty new to brewing and I made a JAO as my first ever brew and i used balloons for airlocks. Now I've just bottled a kit brew I'm going to take some of the Suburban honey my bees produce and go for a slightly more complex mead. Looking forward to reading these 40 somewhat pages of advice and will report in when i have more of an idea of what I'm doing. 

Regards,

Cup


----------



## Joely

The hop cartel said:


> Steeped orange peel in black tea and 1 add about 20 to 30 chop raisins to the Must


Can we please move away from the myth that raisins add nutrients. They don't do anything except provide additional sugars. Treat your yeast right from the start and you will have the best mead at the end. Temp control, know your FAN to calculate your YAN and stagger nutrient doses throughout the 1/3 sugar break.


----------



## Hugh Coleman

I’ve already brewed a few traditional meads, a couple of traditional sand some fruited ones. I thought I’d give this a go and followed the recipe to the letter! Used Lowans instant dried yeast that I nicked from my wife, assuming it might go to around 11 or 12%.
I don’t know where it started because the recipe says not to measure the IG. But it finished at 1.004 specific gravity.
And jeesus is it bitter to the taste! Wholly undrinkable.

Possible causes.
A) the honey I used was not as high in fermentable sugars as it might have been.
B) the yeast mutated over the eight weeks it sat in primary and went past the 11-12%.
C) the orange I used was too pithy (I could only get hold of a large navel orange at the time I decided to make this).

In any case, I’m going to persist with it and try back sweetening with honey to see if it can be rescued.

Cheers,

Hugh


----------

