# A Live Guide To Brewing Sake



## Adamt (9/7/08)

I've been researching the last couple of months on sake brewing. It's something I've been interested in for a while, I have a couple of friends that drink it and they are encouraging me, so why not?

I googled quite a lot of results regarding sake brewing, most that make it look much easier than it should be. From a few good sites I've developed a recipe and brewing schedule/plan. The whole process takes about 7-8 weeks, a whole load of steps, a bit of forward planning and patience. However, it actually turns out to be very cheap; the ingredients for my first batch (10L, 20%ABV) should cost me about $20.

I'm going to update my blog with what I'm doing and hopefully afterwards I will publish a bit of a guide with pictures, etc.

Currently there is a big spiel of an introduction to sake which hopefully some people may find interesting.

Cheers
Adam

PS: I've posted this under the AG section as it is all-grain (rice) brewing, and the long, involved process I will be doing is more suited to those AG brewers with the patience and dedication to producing quality product.


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## Cortez The Killer (9/7/08)

I'll be watching this very closely

I've been thinking about making sake for a long time

Very interesting article in your blog

And it'll be great to hear about how your process goes and any tips 

And how the final product comes out

Cheers


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## Hutch (9/7/08)

Will also be watching with great interest.

Just one question Adamt - had you thought of using the WYeast Sake #9 variety, instead of S-189 ?
Having never made the stuff myself, I have no idea what difference this would make, and S-189 is particularly good in beer, though Sake might require a different strain.

Ross has this Wyeast for under $10 FWIW...


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## Adamt (9/7/08)

Hutch: I have thought about it, not looked at it yet though.

It does look the goods though as it has the right nutrients and is a proper sake strain. If Beerbelly has the Wyeast sake (I think he told me he did at the case swap... not sure  ) I will be picking that up, otherwise S-189 will do it for me.

I'm not sure I'd be able to tell the difference anyway 

Thanks for the feedback guys.


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## mika (9/7/08)

You have actually tasted Sake haven't you ? <_<


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## Adamt (9/7/08)

I wasn't a big fan of beer when I thought all beer tasted like VB


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## ~MikE (9/7/08)

bookmarked. freaky, i was just today looking into brewing sake. weird


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## InCider (9/7/08)

Wow! It's Sake [sa.kɛ] time!

I asked Jye about it at the swap and he sent me a couple of links Sake process is one of them with a downloadable PDF.

Then when Ross posted the 'Craftbrewer Goes Liquid' site and mentioned Sake yeast... well it was surely a sign!

Adam, I'll watch you blog eagerly.

Cheers,

Sean


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## Adamt (9/7/08)

That "Taylor Made" link is brilliant, that's where I got the recipe and base process from.

I may bring some up for the Xmas swap if I make it up there!


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## mika (9/7/08)

Adamt said:


> I wasn't a big fan of beer when I thought all beer tasted like VB



So you're saying I shouldn't put much faith in the sake served at a Japanese restaurant selling such quality Japanese lagers like Sapporo and Ashai ? :lol:


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## afromaiko (9/7/08)

Wyeast Sake #9 kicks butt, foams up like crazy.

But no matter what method I try my sake always ends up with a yellow tinge. I found out this can be clean up by charcoal filtering though.


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## bradmcm (9/7/08)

Yes, I have made it at home before with reasonable success - mine tended to stay milky though from memory.
I got my koji from another brewer but unfortunately it had a mild infection of some mould or wild yeast that turned the rice orange and the sake, well, slightly that colour.

I must try it again.


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## afromaiko (9/7/08)

bradmcm said:


> Yes, I have made it at home before with reasonable success - mine tended to stay milky though from memory.
> I got my koji from another brewer but unfortunately it had a mild infection of some mould or wild yeast that turned the rice orange and the sake, well, slightly that colour.
> 
> I must try it again.



Rather than mucking about trying to innoculate the rice yourself it's a lot easier to just buy it pre-malted, especially for a beginner. In Melbourne buy it from Fuji-mart next to Prahran Market, or Tokyo Deli on Glenhuntly Rd in Elsternwick used to sell it too. Look in the freezer or ask the assistant for simply 'koji'. In Sydney you can try Fuji-Mart's sister store, Tokyo-Mart.


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## Adamt (9/7/08)

I would love to use premade koji, but I couldn't find it anywhere locally (or online), and believe me I looked everywhere!


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## bradmcm (9/7/08)

I second that - though I must go back into the Central Market/Chinatown and try some of the newer Japanese and Korean groceries and see what they come up with. Certainly the Japanese sections of the other Asian groceries don't have it.


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## Adamt (9/7/08)

Still, it can't be harder than cultivating yeast, no? Either way, I shall find out in a few days


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## Aaron (9/7/08)

I would be very interested if you manage to find it in Adelaide.


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## afromaiko (9/7/08)

Adamt said:


> Still, it can't be harder than cultivating yeast, no? Either way, I shall find out in a few days



The things you need to take note of are:

- Steaming the rice 'just right', so the grains are rubbery but not too soft, mushy or sticky
- Keeping it sterile, very easy to get some unwanted nasties growing on it. 
- Humidity control is also important or the koji spores will go soggy and it then it just goes to a mouldy mush if you aren't careful, it needs to breath. 
- Stopping growth at the right point

The packs were $7 for 200gms, and you'll need 2 packs to make 3 finished litres of sake.

Have a look at the below site. It's all in Japanese but if you just click around on the pics, it's quite interesting.

http://www.ajiwai.com/otoko/make/kouj_fr.htm


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## afromaiko (9/7/08)

Aaron said:


> I would be very interested if you manage to find it in Adelaide.



These guys are probably you best bet online in Australia:

http://www.ichibajunction.com.au

They are one of the main Japanese food importers and distributors. I couldn't find it on their website but who knows, they may be able to help if you ask and want to order a few packs? Only thing is it's a frozen product so they are particular about the courier methods they use for those.


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## Adamt (9/7/08)

$7 for 200g? Ouch.. I'm attempting to make over 1kg tomorrow for less than that price... Now you have me nervous 

Edit: Complete the sentence, Adam.


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## afromaiko (9/7/08)

Adamt said:


> $7 for 200g? Ouch.. I'm attempting to make over 1kg tomorrow for less than that price... Now you have me nervous
> 
> Edit: Complete the sentence, Adam.



Yeah you can make up a stack of it if you have the spores (koji-kin or koji-tane) plus some good quality sushi rice (try Koshihikari or Akita Komachi) and some patience. But the premade stuff is like K&K for sake  and good for a first step as it takes out some of the variables.

Usually you use about 1 part koji (also called kome-koji) to 3 parts plain steamed rice.

Grain & Grape sell the spores too, Chris is the man to talk to about it there.


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## Adamt (9/7/08)

I've got 25g of spores so I am set for a while! 

Might as well do it and get it right the first time... just like brewing beer


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## afromaiko (9/7/08)

Adamt said:


> I've got 25g of spores so I am set for a while!
> 
> Might as well do it and get it right the first time... just like brewing beer



I got my spores from the same place as you, they for last ages but also take note of that link I posted above. It recommends that if you are unsure or have less than perfect (ie: not professional) koji growing conditions then you should use more spores. They say to use up to 18.8g per 1kg of rice when making at home. The professionals have got it down pat so they can get away with using a lot less. 

Now if only I had a rice polishing machine...


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## Adamt (10/7/08)

Cheers mate, I may just chuck a little extra koji-kin in the mix.

Reckon my conical burr coffee grinder, or marga mill will do the job polishing rice? Hahahaha.


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## Wasabi (10/7/08)

I can give you my one tip from my Sake making days.

It may seem really, really obvious. 

Don't use jasmine rice.

The ferment went really well, the sake was clear, it came in at 11%......but......it tasted like marzipan.


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## Adamt (28/7/08)

Just a bump for those interested that missed it the first time around.

Currently I'm building my starter and things seem to be going to plan. Plenty of pictures in my AHB blog.

Cheers!


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## afromaiko (28/7/08)

Adamt said:


> Just a bump for those interested that missed it the first time around.
> 
> Currently I'm building my starter and things seem to be going to plan. Plenty of pictures in my AHB blog.
> 
> Cheers!



Coming along nicely! 

You may have more success with your kome-koji if you spread it out after a couple of days and rake little furrows in it to help release the heat so the koji-kin doesn't die off. If you missed it the first time around take a look at this link.. http://www.ajiwai.com/otoko/make/kouj_fr.htm


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## Adamt (28/7/08)

Nice, I did have a brief look at that page but trying to read the Japanese gave me a headache! I did pull the rice balls out twice daily, broke them up and reformed them, which hopefully should have done that for me.

I've bookmarked it; I reckon I might attempt a good read of it before next batch!

Cheers


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## afromaiko (28/7/08)

Adamt said:


> Nice, I did have a brief look at that page but trying to read the Japanese gave me a headache! I did pull the rice balls out twice daily, broke them up and reformed them, which hopefully should have done that for me.
> 
> I've bookmarked it; I reckon I might attempt a good read of it before next batch!
> 
> Cheers



Hey here's another link I just found with good pics:

http://outdoor.geocities.jp/inaguraman/sho.../komekouji.html


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## Fermented (7/11/08)

Any news on the sake?

Sorry to push - I know you're busy - but this is rather exciting to me, a hardened Gekkeikan fan. 

Cheers - Fermented.


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## afromaiko (7/11/08)

Fermented said:


> Any news on the sake?
> 
> Sorry to push - I know you're busy - but this is rather exciting to me, a hardened Gekkeikan fan.
> 
> Cheers - Fermented.



Actually I'm in the kitchen pasteurizing a finished batch right at the moment!


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## mb83 (8/11/08)

I've been wondering about all this old cooked rice sitting around.
Is there any chance of food poisoning and culturing nasties?
Rice is supposed to be one of the worst offenders when it comes to giving people food poisoning.

Just curious,

Michael


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## Fermented (8/11/08)

afromaiko: Cool! Love to read your tasting notes when the time comes.

mb83: Rice isn't so bad as long as you handle it properly. 

Cook it, cool it out a bit and then get it into the fridge to eat within two days (covered with Gladwrap or sealed in a container) or press it into loosely packed single serve blocks (sized to match your rice bowl for easy nuking) wrapped well in Gladwrap for freezing for up to a couple of weeks.

Where folk get into trouble is leaving an open pot on the bench for more than a couple of hours or more than four hours in a rice cooker. That can make you get rather crook at the best of times and very high chance of being really crook in summer.

Cheers - Fermented.


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## taylor-madeak (11/11/08)

I am summoned! :lol:


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## Adamt (11/11/08)

Finally I've got off my lazy rear end and done something with my sake! I separated it from the lees yesterday... which was an absolute pain-in-the-arse! Got about 9L out of it so slightly under target but anyway...

It's now sitting in my chest freezer (at 4C) "lagering"... bottling and pasteurising in a week or so.

Welcome Taylor-Made... good to have you on board! Your guide is the duck's nuts.


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## afromaiko (11/11/08)

Taylor-MadeAK said:


> I am summoned! :lol:



LOL! :lol: 

You know, you really need to start your own sake forum on your website. 

Now I don't know which forum I should reply to you on.


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## taylor-madeak (11/11/08)

"Adamt" said:


> Welcome Taylor-Made... good to have you on board! Your guide is the duck's nuts.


Duck's nuts? Is that a good thing? Or is it Ozzie slang for "go soak yer head?" :lol:



"afromaiko" said:


> You know, you really need to start your own sake forum on your website.
> 
> Now I don't know which forum I should reply to you on.


That's what comments are for. 

You can reply to me anywhere, really. I check NB most frequently, but every other forum I usually have set to send me an e-mail when I get replies. If nothing else, you can always send me an e-mail through the contact form on my web site. I watch my e-mail like a hawk during the day, so you're likely to get an immediate response that way (within reason, remember I'm on the other side of the planet from you).


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## Adamt (11/11/08)

Haha... it means "the bee's knees", "creme de la creme", "the best!"


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## afromaiko (11/11/08)

Here's pic of my recently finished sake. After straining, I ran this through the usual 1 micron absolute beer filter, but unfortunately I only got about 2 litres before it clogged solid. So the rest of the batch was bottle up cloudy as nigori. Tasting.. slight sour taste, but fairly neutral sweetness at FG 1.000. I'd prefer it a bit sweeter myself. Heated seems to be the go, rather than chilled. The nigori seems a bit mellower tasting though. Bit of alcohol kick to it so I'd put it somewhere around 15%.


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## Adamt (11/11/08)

Groovy! You started well after me and finished before me. I would've thought it would get a lot further below 1.000; it's pretty dry and >15%...

I think your dog is wondering why you bottled your urine! Hahahaha...

EDIT: Oh yeah, what kind of method did you use? Mr Taylor's?


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## afromaiko (11/11/08)

I'll tell ya, it was very difficult getting the dog to pee into that bottle! But it will go well in my next VB clone. :icon_vomit: 

I brewed a modified Tibbs-Vision basic recipe, with these changes:

- Wyeast Sake #9
- lactic acid instead of citric
- extra addition at end of ferment (koji only, no steamed rice but now wish I had added some more)

I used store bought koji and good quality sushi rice. 

Planning to do the Taylor Made recipe the next time around.


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## Fermented (12/11/08)

Congrats afromaiko! 

It has a bit more colour than the stuff my mate in Sapporo used to make (long since dead, so I can't get his recipe). What did the ABV% end up at?

And big cheers to Taylor-MadeAK! Your guide and writings have inspired me to try to make sake. So nice to see you here, Sensei-san! 

Cheers - Fermented.


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## afromaiko (12/11/08)

Fermented said:


> Congrats afromaiko!
> 
> It has a bit more colour than the stuff my mate in Sapporo used to make (long since dead, so I can't get his recipe). What did the ABV% end up at?
> 
> ...



It's impossible to take an OG reading so I can't be any more accurate than guessing, but possibly around 15%. This is based on my observations from quite quickly drinking the cup full I used for the FG sample and seeing how light-headed I felt afterwards. All very scientific... :icon_drunk:


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## taylor-madeak (12/11/08)

afromaiko said:


> Here's pic of my recently finished sake. After straining, I ran this through the usual 1 micron absolute beer filter, but unfortunately I only got about 2 litres before it clogged solid. So the rest of the batch was bottle up cloudy as nigori. Tasting.. slight sour taste, but fairly neutral sweetness at FG 1.000. I'd prefer it a bit sweeter myself. Heated seems to be the go, rather than chilled. The nigori seems a bit mellower tasting though. Bit of alcohol kick to it so I'd put it somewhere around 15%.


I think I mentioned over on NB, but the filter probably would've worked better if you let the _nigori_ settle out first. :lol: I probably should've specified that before you tried it, but I guess it just didn't occur to me. My bad.

Your sake is going to taste pretty harsh right now, with the sourness jumping up to smack you in the face when you first taste it. My advice is to put the filtered sake in a beer box and forget about it for a couple months. Sake mellows out quite a bit in the 2-6 months following filtration and pasteurization, which is why most sake producers sit on their product for six months before selling it.

That's a beautiful bottle of sake, though, man. Congratulations! The color is just right for sake made with common 90% polish dinner rice.



"Afromaiko" said:


> It's impossible to take an OG reading so I can't be any more accurate than guessing, but possibly around 15%. This is based on my observations from quite quickly drinking the cup full I used for the FG sample and seeing how light-headed I felt afterwards. All very scientific...


Have you guys ever heard of a vinometer? I have one that I picked up years ago just because it looked cool and it was cheap. These devices are used for measuring the alcohol content of dry white wines which have no residual sugar and the one I bought has a scale that goes up to 20% v/v. As it turns out, that makes vinometers perfect for measuring the alcohol content of my very dry (FG 0.996) homebrew sake. The instructions say it's accurate to within +/- 1% v/v, provided the sample has fermented completely dry. 

More accurate than taste buds, anyhow. :lol: 



"Fermented" said:


> And big cheers to Taylor-MadeAK! Your guide and writings have inspired me to try to make sake. So nice to see you here, Sensei-san!


Mission accomplished! Thanks for the big welcome.


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## taylor-madeak (12/11/08)

Not to hijack this thread or anything, but it's aliiiiiiiiiiive!





I think the foam trying to claw its way out of my fermenter is the result of using homemade _koji_ instead of the store-bought stuff I normally use. I could go on about how the Cold Mountain Rice Koji is made for making miso blah blah blah...but the truth is I just don't have an explanation. The _moromi_ has been held at a strict 11C for the last five days and it's still foamy as hell! I've never seen anything like it. If I hadn't put it directly into the fridge right after _tomezoe_, I probably would've found myself cleaning up one heck of a mess...well, whatever the cats left me anyway. :lol:


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## afromaiko (12/11/08)

Taylor-MadeAK said:


> Have you guys ever heard of a vinometer? I have one that I picked up years ago just because it looked cool and it was cheap. These devices are used for measuring the alcohol content of dry white wines which have no residual sugar and the one I bought has a scale that goes up to 20% v/v. As it turns out, that makes vinometers perfect for measuring the alcohol content of my very dry (FG 0.996) homebrew sake. The instructions say it's accurate to within +/- 1% v/v, provided the sample has fermented completely dry.



I see that one of the forum sponsors has these available so I'll pick up one when I'm passing there next.

http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product_in...roducts_id=8124

Interesting to hear & see the difference between store bought & home made koji.. looking good!


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## taylor-madeak (12/11/08)

Yep, that's exactly the one I own.


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## Adverse (2/1/09)

i hope you dont mind a new member butting in

i started a rice brew going 1:30AM 1/1/09

i used yeast balls (they have koji in them) 

its a 55Lt brew consisting of

5Kg rice
5Kg raw sugar (it has nutrence the yeas can use)
55Lt water approximately
2 berocca tablets (it has nutrence the yeas can use)
pinch epsom salts (it has nutrence the yeas can use)
1 tablespoon tomato past (it has nutrence the yeas can use)

*proses of making*

.........*making a yeast starter*
500ml water temp 30c
2x berocca tablets
pinch of epsom salts
4x yeast balls
50g raw sugar
1 tablespoon tomato past
let sit covered (not sealed) 2 hours

........*making the wash/brew*
boil 30Lt water cover it and let it cool (the cooler the better sub 18c would be good)
boil rice till its a thick sludge (i did it in 2 lots of 10LT water 2.5Kg rice)
use one of thos hand held blenders the mix is liquefied (no lumps or grains at all)
at this point it you should be able to take a spoon full of it and turn it over and all most none drop off the spoon
put the sludge in to the brewer 
cover the brewer
boil 5 Lt water put in 5Kg raw sugar and desolve
add sugar to brewer
give it a really good mix
now add the cold water till you get to 54.Lt total 
give it a really good mixing
it should still be really thick and hard to work with
cover the brewer 

go look at your yeast starter it should be starting to bubble a bit if it is good go add it to the brewer as long as the brew has cooled to a temp sub 30c
give it a really good mixing the more oxygen you can get in to it the better

put the lid on attach the bubbler and dont let it get above a temp of 30c
24 hours later the koji has done a lot of its work and the brew has a consistency of soy milk and is bubbling like nuts


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## hoonaberry (16/1/09)

Adverse Effects said:


> i hope you dont mind a new member butting in
> 
> *proses of making*
> 
> ...



Interesting... Using tomato paste and berocca...

I make with hmm... something like yeast ball.
I use 1kg of rice with 1.5L of water and 500g of yeast ball.
Also add wine yeast to make it ferment safely.

Then after 5 days, add 5Kg of rice with 8L of water.

ferment it further 2weeks.

You can also use malt to make ricewine, but have to use yeast.

By the way, where can I buy Koji or Koji kin in Sydney??


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## hoonaberry (16/1/09)

bradmcm said:


> I second that - though I must go back into the Central Market/Chinatown and try some of the newer Japanese and Korean groceries and see what they come up with. Certainly the Japanese sections of the other Asian groceries don't have it.



Koreans don't use KOJI. 
So don't even go there. Some store might have NOO ROOk.
That's what they use to make rice wine.

I've tried 2 Japanese stores today to fine KOJI.... No luck yet.


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## hoonaberry (16/1/09)

Adamt said:


> I wasn't a big fan of beer when I thought all beer tasted like VB



Me too!


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## Adverse (29/1/09)

hoonaberry said:


> Interesting... Using tomato paste and berocca...
> 
> I make with hmm... something like yeast ball.
> I use 1kg of rice with 1.5L of water and 500g of yeast ball.
> ...








this is the yeast balls i use

i got thes at a Tie (spelling?) market that sells all forms of food
they had no idear what i was talking about till i took them a pic of the pack then they took me strate to the shelf where they had about 30 packs on there


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## taylor-madeak (10/2/09)

I'm at risk of sounding like a know-it-all here, but I just can't let you guys stay all mixed up like this without trying to correct it.



hoonaberry said:


> Koreans don't use KOJI.
> So don't even go there. Some store might have NOO ROOk.
> That's what they use to make rice wine.
> 
> I've tried 2 Japanese stores today to fine KOJI.... No luck yet.


[SOAPBOX]

Koreans *do* use _koji_ when they're making sak, and some pretty darn respectable sak is indeed made in that country. To further clarify on the subject of that moldy rice: *if you are not using koji, you are not making nihonshu (sak).*

To be sure, there are other styles of _jiu_ that don't use _koji_. The Korean homebrew _makgeolli_ (or _makkoli_, depending on who you talk to) uses _nuruk_ and usually baker's yeast. *Nuruk* is a kind of diastatic granola made from wheat and barley malts, and it's none too sanitary when you consider you're using it entirely on the cold side of brewing this style of _jiu_. The resulting room-temperature fermented beverage is so sour that it's almost always sweetened with sugar before being consumed, and a significant portion of it ends up being distilled into _soju_ - the Korean analog of Japanese _shochu_.

Those yeast balls mentioned in the last few posts of this thread are _jiu-men_, that might help you guys who are looking for them. They contain yeast, flour, and a laundry list of microorganisms that can saccharify rice starches (_koji_ is not necessarily one of those critters), though usually only amylose. _Jiu-men_ is used to make Chinese style _jiu_: _huangjiu_, _nuer'hong_, and _huadiao jiu_. Because the the rice of choice for these products is the amylopectin-packed "glutinous rice" (more properly called "waxy rice"), the resulting _jiu_ is usually very sweet.

[/SOAPBOX]

Cultural differences between Anchorage, Alaska and Sydney, Australia aside, every time I've asked for _koji_ in an Asian market I've been met with blank stares. In my experience, the employees of those shops are about as familiar with that product as anyone else. You can try showing them a picture, or you can just check the refrigerator case next to the _miso_. _Koji_ is used to make _miso_, so it's usually kept near those products since it also requires refrigeration.


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## afromaiko (10/2/09)

hoonaberry said:


> By the way, where can I buy Koji or Koji kin in Sydney??



Try Tokyo Mart, their Melbourne store Fuji Mart used to sell it. It's about $6 for a 200gm block of kome-koji.

http://www.junpacific.com/e/tokyomart/map.html

For yeast, don't much around just get some Wyeast Sake #9 from the site sponsors... I know Craftbrewer or Grain & Grape both carry it.

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=1592

G & G also carry koji-kin and have a sake kit available.

EDIT: If you don't have any luck on the koji, try calling Japanese food importers Jun Pacific or Daiwa Foods direct.


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## Adverse (12/4/09)

thank you for that information Taylor-MadeAK


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