# All Grain - 3 V Build - Advice Needed



## ledgenko (16/9/11)

Fellow brewers, 



I am in the rebuild mode for the brewery as I have inherited a few 50l kegs (some time ago) and want to move from the 20lt HLT - 50l esky tun and the 40 lt stockpot kettle which I currently work to give me 30lt batches into a larger capacity. 


The thought I was going down was a 70 lt HLT (old style keg with hotwater system elms), either a 50l or 100l tun (two 50l kegs welded together and a 100l keggle (again 2 x 50l kegs welded together - again same heating elms as the HLT) .. I think this would def be a sweet set up but when I moved the kegs together and looked at it I started to think .. do I really need a 100l tun ?? or would the use of one 50l keg be enough ??


I could see that this would def make the brewery capable of producing a solid amount of beer each brew ( I currently keg 1 18lt cornie and bottle the rest for a rainy day ;-) ) this increase in production would allow me to keg a few more kegs and let them sit in the cellar with CO2 on them and condition for a longer time ... 


Thoughts on the proposed 3V set up ??? 


Matt


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## razz (16/9/11)

All breweries can be limited by fermenter size so let's start there, what size fermenter will you be using and will you be no chilling into cubes?


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## ledgenko (16/9/11)

I currently use 5 x 30l fermenters but will be picking up a couple of 100l fermenters in the next couple of months ... baby steps ;-) ... Yeah I currently no chill straight into cubes .. I have 10 x 20l cubes ... I try to have the wort in the cubes for 24 - 72 hrs depending on fermenter space and obviously the number of empty kegs I have or bottles available. 

I am returning to work so wont have as much time to brew as I have had this year ... so figured bigger batches will free up some time...


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## brettprevans (16/9/11)

bigger tuns rock

depends on what you want to make. its certainly a PITA to punch out 40L of 12% beer in 50L tun. but if your not into that then its fine. you certainly dont need a 70L hlt if you have the right heating elements. you can just refill it. 

i run a 50L hlt, 50L tun and a 90L keggle. Id love an extra 20L on the tun.


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## cdbrown (16/9/11)

Mine is 3 50L kegs and it has a couple of drawbacks for double batches such as having to refill the HLT after mashing in and then having to top up the kettle after the boil with water as I can't quite do a full boil. The HLT doesn't bother me at all as the water heats up quickly and ready for sparge, the top up and having to watch for boil over is annoying. I'd definitely want a bigger kettle - 70L would give plenty of room to allow for longer boils and increased ferment vol.

You wouldn't need a 100L tun if you've only got a 100L kettle. With a 100L kettle would the post boil vol be about 80L?


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## razz (16/9/11)

Going by your plan to get some bigger fermenters I'd go with your original idea, 70lt HLT, 100lt MLT and 100l kettle. A 50lt mashie will eventually be the limiting factor when trying to fill a 100lt fermenter.


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## brettprevans (16/9/11)

cdbrown said:


> You wouldn't need a 100L tun if you've only got a 100L kettle. With a 100L kettle would the post boil vol be about 80L?


you get very boil off with a 100L keggle. very narrow surface area


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## ledgenko (16/9/11)

So far I have picked up that a 100l tun IS a good idea ... the HLT size does not really matter as you can refill ... The 100 l Kettle is right? 

I figure the kegs are there so use them !! 

The larger kettle allows me to not sit and watch for boilover ... The HLT gets fed Hot water straight from the hot water system so very quick turn around anyway ... Although Perth water is not that flash ... I have been surprised with the outcome of several of my beers here ... considering I was used to Brissy water ... which is lovely in comparison to Perth water ... 

Any other advice on the set up ?? Happy to hear it all ... this is not something I intend on doing too often .. so would prefer to hear all


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## cdbrown (16/9/11)

What's your plan for the frame? 
Cleaning out the tun (maybe a tipper frame?)
Sparging - batch or fly - depending on the frame you would need 1 (gravity fed from HLT) or 2 (pumps single tier)
The bigger the batch, the harder it is to move around!! 42L in a 60L fermenter is the limit for me without having to pump from fermenters to kegs.

Bothering with heating the MT - HERMS or RIMS or direct fired?
Heating source for kettle - needs to output a good amount of heat into the bottom of the kettle for an 80L+ boil.


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## donburke (16/9/11)

ledgenko said:


> So far I have picked up that a 100l tun IS a good idea ... the HLT size does not really matter as you can refill ... The 100 l Kettle is right?
> 
> I figure the kegs are there so use them !!
> 
> ...



i agree that the 100L mash tun is a good idea, very handy if using hot water additions for a stepped mash or mashout, and obviously handy for a large grain bill

i use 3 x 98L vessels in my system and can punch out 85L of wort, netting 80L into fermenters after leaving 5 L trub in the kettle

i often split that 80 L into either 1 x 40 L + 2 x 20 L and experiment using different yeasts to ferment the different fermenters

my boil volume starts at 92 L and i have an evaporation rate of approx 9%, which means i top up the kettle during the boil with approx 6 litres boiling water if boiling for 90 minutes, still gives me an efficiency of 75%

the HLT is probably the one that could have been less, but the benefits of a large HLT means that you can preheat the mashout and sparge water in one go, and you wont have to wait to refill it and reheat it for your mashout and sparge

i recommend you punch some trial figures in beersmith, and you will be able to work what volumes you will need and when you will need them


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