# First Lager - Yeast Help Please



## goatus (2/6/10)

Hi all, 

I have done a heap of AG ales, i think now is the time to venture into lagers. I have formulated a little recipe, but need some advice on yeast selection. 

This is what im brewing (CAP-ish?):
23L batch

5kg Galaxy pale
1kg Rice 

20g Nelson Sauvin @ 60 mins
15g Saaz @ 15 mins
15g Saaz @ flameout

any yeast suggestions for me? I have used liquid yeasts before for my ales, but have never made a starter. Would this brew suffer greatly with a dry lager yeast? Or should i just say bugger it and pop my starter cherry too (im sure i can handle it). 

Look forward to your advice


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## seemax (2/6/10)

S-189 and W34/70 are decent dry lager yeasts, make sure you pitch enough especially if starting at ferment temp (10C).

Depends what you're after... there is a good range of Wyeast lagers... perhaps American or Budvar ?


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## ledgenko (2/6/10)

Goatus .. beer looks fine .. liquid yeast .. have it at room temp before you put it in the fermenter.. remember that the temps for Lagers are much lower than ales ... but end result can be spectacular.. ;-) 

Just do it mate .. worst case is it will cost a few $$$ but starting off brewing is the same as doing a trade .. jump in !!! 

yea haaa .... 

let me know how you go !!


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## Nick JD (2/6/10)

seemax said:


> S-189 and W34/70 are decent dry lager yeasts, make sure you pitch enough especially if starting at ferment temp (10C).



+1 

Can't go wrong with either of these at 11C. Ignore the sulphur with 34/70, it goes away eventually.


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## goatherder (2/6/10)

S-189 gets my vote, I've used it in a CAP before with very good results. Pitch 2 packets.


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## seemax (2/6/10)

With the price of dry lager yeast $6+ pitching 2 packets you might as well get a smack pack ($11.80) ... then save a little for the next starter too.


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## jakub76 (2/6/10)

I made a very similar recipe with 1kg rice, pilsen and a little carapils. I only used a bittering addition of hallertau and wyeast 2308 Munich Lager liquid yeast. Man it was SO good! It's now my house light lager, delicious. The yeast was far less finicky than the WLP830 I'm using at the moment, and less stinky too. 
I pitched a 500ml starter and there was little to no lag. Diacetyl rest at end of fermentation, flavour was a bit rough at first but at 4 weeks in bottles (2 weeks lagering) it was really great.


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## goatus (3/6/10)

thanks all. 

I think i am gonna go with dry yeast this time and try a starter with my next ale. At least then if something goes wrong i know its with my lager process and not a yeast management issue. Ill see if my local hbs have 189 in stock.

The pitching calculator says i need 12g of dry yeast, and to pitch one 11.5g packet. When you say pitch two packets do you mean 2 11.5g packets?


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## bconnery (3/6/10)

goatus said:


> thanks all.
> 
> I think i am gonna go with dry yeast this time and try a starter with my next ale. At least then if something goes wrong i know its with my lager process and not a yeast management issue. Ill see if my local hbs have 189 in stock.
> 
> The pitching calculator says i need 12g of dry yeast, and to pitch one 11.5g packet. When you say pitch two packets do you mean 2 11.5g packets?



You can pitch one packet if you pitch a little warmer, say 17C or so and then cool the beer down to fermenting temp but many people prefer to pitch cool, at or even below fermenting temp and pitch more yeast. 
For me this was my preferred method before the recent price rise in dry yeast, particularly my favourite S189...


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## goatherder (3/6/10)

goatus said:


> thanks all.
> 
> I think i am gonna go with dry yeast this time and try a starter with my next ale. At least then if something goes wrong i know its with my lager process and not a yeast management issue. Ill see if my local hbs have 189 in stock.
> 
> The pitching calculator says i need 12g of dry yeast, and to pitch one 11.5g packet. When you say pitch two packets do you mean 2 11.5g packets?




Which pitching calculator are you using? Mr Malty comes up with 2 x 11.5g packets for a lager. The rule of thumb is that a lager needs twice the yeast of an ale of the same gravity.

bconnery is spot on, you may get away with one packet when pitching warm. Pitch 2 packets cold for best results however.

If you are concerned with the additional cost of two packets, bear in mind that you can repitch the slurry up to 5-6 times if your sanitation is good. The yeast improves as you go, especially around the 2nd & 3rd repitch. Making 4 or 5 beers out of 2 packs of yeast is pretty good value.


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## goatus (13/6/10)

goatherder said:


> Which pitching calculator are you using? Mr Malty comes up with 2 x 11.5g packets for a lager. The rule of thumb is that a lager needs twice the yeast of an ale of the same gravity.
> 
> bconnery is spot on, you may get away with one packet when pitching warm. Pitch 2 packets cold for best results however.
> 
> If you are concerned with the additional cost of two packets, bear in mind that you can repitch the slurry up to 5-6 times if your sanitation is good. The yeast improves as you go, especially around the 2nd & 3rd repitch. Making 4 or 5 beers out of 2 packs of yeast is pretty good value.



Apologies, i was using the calculator in ale mode. I finally got around to brewing this and just pitched 2 w-34/70 packets (all my hbs had in the end).

I could only get it down to 16 deg before pitching, i expect my temp controlled chesty to get it down to 10 deg in the next few hours.

Any advice on best practice for fermenting? My plan is 6 days at 10 deg, then raise to 16 for a few days for diacetyl, then rack to secondary and crash chill to 1 degree for 6 weeks. Correct? 

Thanks all, this forum has increased the quality of my beer dramatically. Looking forward to tasting my first lager


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## matt.barrenger (13/6/10)

Hey Guys,

What rice do you use?


What does it bring to that party?? better texture, bitter, sweet, body?????

Is it good for only largers?


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## Nick JD (14/6/10)

beaker said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> What rice do you use?
> 
> ...



The cheapest you can get - usually Thai long grain seems cheapest, especially if you get 10kg or more. I used some old sushi rice once - but the flavour is so subtle that any rice will do.

It brings a subtle vanilla creamed rice, and subtle is the word - you have to think about it to really notice it, but it's there. Take a big whiff of an open bag of rice - that's the flavour.

It seems to make the beer much clearer, doesn't change the body - but does lighten the colour (good if you are chasing pale without thinness). Ever so slightly sweetens the beer = but it's not a "malt" sweet - I find it more a vanilla sweet if that makes sense. 

Put it in any beer. I primarily use it to make very, very pale beers that still have body.

EDIT: I've used 35% rice in a beer with BB ale malt and had good efficiency (BIAB) ... much more than this and I think you'll start to lose out. At this percentage the rice is very noticible. <20% it starts be become a background flavour.


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## Bribie G (14/6/10)

ALDI 2K for about $3.40 is the stuff I always use, cooked to a mush and added to the mash. If you are doing a BIAB it seems to result in a dryer lighter 'grain ball' at the end of the process as it definitely produces a freer-running mash. As Nick says it gives a lovely clear beer. If you can get Barrett Burston Galaxy pale Pilsener malt, that's the stuff to use. They malt it for Asahi in Japan, apparently, so it's a match made in heaven.


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## goatus (14/6/10)

down to a steady 10 degrees this morning, only a thin layer of krausen tho, is this normal for a lager? I gave it a swirl to make sure they are awake anyway 

I just used black and gold long grain cos it was on special for $1 a kilo bag. Have since read that many people recommend jasmin rice, i will try that next time and see if i can tell the difference. 

Any comments on my ferment regeme?


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