# Lagering In Bottles



## dabre4 (11/6/07)

G'day all,

I made my first proper lager the other day and was wondering about the best way to "lager" the beer. I fermented for about 9 days at around 14 degrees, then racked to secondary for a week at around 8-10 degrees. From there I added some dry malt and bottled them. Whats the best temp to keep them at? Should I have them warm for a few days to let them carbonate, or should I start storing at low temps first? I currently have the bottles at around 0 to 4 degrees, after having them at around 10 degrees for a couple of days. I'm worried that they haven't carbonated properly and that if "lager" the bottles for to long, when they come up to temp the yeast will have dyed and they may not carbonate properly! If this is even possible.
I guess what im getting at is should they be carbonated before lagering, or can the be carbonated after lagering?

Cheers,

DB.


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## matti (11/6/07)

You have an odd way of doing things, Doog.
The best practice after bottling them is to allow them to carb out at the yeasts optimum temperature then store at a cold dark place for 6-8 weeks.
If that is a low temp like 10 it may take more then 2 weeks to carb out.
i have never used malt to carb out for a lager but I assume that works well providing you gave it a good shake. 

What you are doing is bottle conditioning as opposed to lagering.
The yeast may go dormant at very cold temps and drop out but can be revived if you want to do thing the other way around.

I'll give an example.
I bottled my cooper ale and left in the garage and it reaaly got cold.
Like 7-14 degrees. So I found some space inside the house after a week and stored them at 16-18 degrees and they have been there for about a week. Another week i'll put it back into the garage and allow it to bottle condition for about 4 weeks.
matti


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## Trent (11/6/07)

Doog
I have found (in my limited experience with lagers) that you should probably lager in the secondary as close as possible to zero as you can, then rack off the sediment while still cold, and allow that to warm to room temps, then bottle, and leave it at ambient temp for a week or 2 for carbonation, then you can shill them again.
What i would do now, in your case, would be allow the bottles to warm to ambient for a week or 2, crack one to check for carbonation, then if it is carbonated, drop the rest of em down to 0-4C that you have now, and leave em for a month or 3. 
Thats my 2c worth anyhow, I am sure that some of the resident lager experts will be able to to advise you better if I am wrong, as I usually do ales!
All the best
Trent


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## chris.taylor.98 (11/6/07)

Doog,

I understand your predicament. I have done a number of lagers now, lagering both in the bottles and in the secondary prior to bottling.

I do not believe that carbonating then lagering in the bottle makes an appreciable difference on the beer, and you do want to carbonate prior to lagering, otherwise carbonation will take a very long time.

I have not heard or read anything that leads me to believe the lagering process is affected by carbonating first, but would be interested in hearing others opinions. 

As far as I am aware it's the storage at the low temperature for a period of time that does all the work, and is really just an extension of the conditioning process. 

The only concession I might have to this process is to allow for a longer time for conditioning to ensure that the conditioning fermentables have been fully processed prior to lagering.

I have recently switched back to the method you described mainly because I only have plastic fermenters which can allow oxygen back into the beer while lagering (not really a problem during fermentation, but might cause some oxidation during lagering especially if left for a long time). I plan to get a glass carboy some time and use it instead.

If you do lager prior to bottling you really should add come fresh conditioning yeast ( or even better get a kegging system and force carbonate it ).


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## matti (15/6/07)

If you go with Trents advice you going to be fine.
Allow them to condition for at least 4-6 weeks.

This will allow the yeast to settle for easier pooring and you will notice the flavour is much greater.

As for lagering under pressure. It is probably the most ideal way, but if you don't have a kegging system, you'd be a fool to try it.

Finally I have read a lot about plastics allowing oxygen back into beer through plastic fermenter but never had a problem myself. I lager 4-6 weeks in plastic fermenter or cubes.

I do recommend glass bottles though because those pet bottle lids can leak if not brand new.

Most of the damaging oxidisation does occur at racking and bottling if methods are inappropriate.

matti


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