# Introducing Brewton



## angus_grant (1/7/12)

Hey everybody,

I have been posting my updates in the "Arduino development thread" and the "Braumiser" thread, but it is probably about time to start my own thread seeing as I am not using an Arduino anymore, and Matho has enough people posting in his thread. he he

So I am not using a micro-controller to control the system. I found the NetDuino too constricting with regards to memory usage, network interface, and graphical output. And I am an IT manager with extensive experience in developing Windows applications so didn't really have the spare time to learn all these new skills.

I have purchased a USB data acquisition device. Once plugged into my little Windows laptop it creates a virtual com port. The manufacturer provides a list of constants to send through the com port to work with the 8 pins. These pins can be analogue or digital inputs or outputs. One of the constants tells the device to read the temp from a Dallas-compatible DS18B20 temp probe. The device returns the temperature in Celsius so no need to mess around 1 pin communication.

I have now wired up the rough prototype for the control box and the Windows console matches the control box in that it is rough as well. So the equipment I have purchased:

Two pots (Big W and a S/S pot from an eBay store):






The inner pot with the lifting points installed:





The two pots:





Control box with the heat sinks for 25A solid state relays:





Control box with electrical input and output plugs. If you have keen eyes, the left set of plugs is 15A for the heating element and the right-side are 10A. At this stage I think I will use a 2400W heating element which ends up being 10A. I figured I may as well wire up the control box to handle 15A in case I end up with a higher rated heating element.





Inside the control box:





And a later shot of the inside. This has the prototyping breadboard with the wiring for the temp probe and the relay hooked up to the USB device. You can just see the USB device in the left of the photo. It has the red wire going into it:





And a shot of the Windows application which controls everything:





As you can see from the application image I have a temp over-shoot problem. I have a PID library which will help with that problem. It also comes with a neat little graphing library which will help the appearance of the control application which looks a little sparse.

At the moment the relay is driving a normal kitchen kettle. I wonder whether the over-shoot would be larger if heating up the full kettle as there is a lot more thermal mass.

So things to do:

Install wiring board inside control box for temp probe and USB device
purchase heating element and install into main vessel
chop out bottom of inner pot and seal
purchase filter plates and install
install brown pump and all plumbing required
re-tune PID library for the main vessel
lots of swearing

Thanks,
Angus.

P.S: Here is a link to a spreadsheet I posted in the "Braumeister" thread on calculating pot sizes, water volumes, heating element height, etc.
Volume calculations

P.P.S: The name comes from an 80's cartoon called Astroboy. I did toy with Mashtroboy, but thought it sounded a bit lame. Then I remembered the fighting robot series with Brewton, the 1 million horsepower robot. I suppose I should really install a pool heating recirculating system to tie in with the million horse-power thing.. I think that is enough exposing of my nerdiness on the Internet....


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## mje1980 (1/7/12)

To quote "jules" from pulp fiction:

"English motherfucker, DO you speak it?"

Just kidding mate, the techno stuff is a bit over my head, but looks awesome and sounds like you know your stuff. Keep us updated.


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## Bribie G (1/7/12)

Is that astroturf?

:huh:


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## Toper (1/7/12)

"And I am an IT manager with extensive experience in developing Windows applications so didn't really have the spare time to learn all these new skills". Looks great,but aren't the 300 weekly updates and security patch fixes gonna take up a lot of time ? :lol:


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## angus_grant (1/7/12)

ha ha. That's why I have a network admin.

What is this Linux you speak of? Is it that software that Apple made usable?


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## DU99 (1/7/12)

LINUX has been around for years..alot of mainframe systems use it.


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## bonj (1/7/12)

Angus, I have been testing my HERMS controller (arduino PID) on a 2.4KW kitchen kettle also, and have been able to get it quite well tuned considering the parameters of the system, so I think you'll be quite happy with PID.


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## angus_grant (1/7/12)

yeh, I think the kettle just increases the temp way too quick for my 250ms sampling so I will have to use the PID library. Don't really want to increase the sampling rate at this stage. Will have a play with PID tomorrow night young child co-operating..  

And my Linux comment was tongue in cheek. I am aware of Linux and we do use it on a couple of devices at work, but are generally a MS shop.


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## pk.sax (1/7/12)

I can actually sort of follow what you are doing for a change! The frangduinos throw my head in 720 degree spins! Great stuff mate. Will be watching with interest.


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## AlexL (1/7/12)

Hey Angus,

I suggest you stick with 15A cable for you 2.4kW element. I found that using regular mains on that size element tends to get quite warm after a 60min boil. 

Alex


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## angus_grant (1/7/12)

AlexL said:


> Hey Angus,
> 
> I suggest you stick with 15A cable for you 2.4kW element. I found that using regular mains on that size element tends to get quite warm after a 60min boil.
> 
> Alex



Cheers Alex. Exactly my reasoning for using the 15A stuff in the first place. I figure the 10A wiring can handle 5 minute bursts of "kettle" activity but extended 60-90 minute boils could stress things a bit. And I think I will start with 2400 watt element as other people have used them successfully. I always have the option of using the system in a 10A plug somewhere else. 

I will get a 15A plug and wiring put in at home somewhere. I am wondering whether the existing electric hot water system uses 15A wiring. Bit hard to tell as it is inside a conduit which runs into the wall. And the main electric board has amperage breakers all over the shop. <_<


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## Siborg (2/7/12)

Hi Angus

I've seen a few of these threads about building your own automated systems. I checked out the source code of another posters (can't remember who) and it was written in c++, which I've been studying at uni last semester.

I'm actually studying to get into software development and, seeing these threads, makes me want to learn a little more about the electronics side and learn/practice some programming on my own automated brewery. I've already got a braumeister but I'm liking the idea of learning some new skills to build my own system that suits me perfectly - and I'm loving the idea of doing it all from a windows app. Ideally, I'd like to integrate a rudimentary recipe formulation program into the automation program, so that you can do it all from one application.

I've got a fair bit to learn, especially about electronics, but I'm young and a relatively fast learner.

Thanks for posting, I'll be keeping an eye on this to see how you go.


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## angus_grant (2/7/12)

I did play with a NetDuino (which is based on the Arduino micro-controller platform) which uses the Microsoft Micro .Net platform. I just found the environment a little constricting. You could use Visual studio to develop and debug the app which was very nice. But it actual device was a little restrictive with regards to available memory, network interfacing and graphical display. The electronics side was the bit I was suffering a bit on with not really having much experience with micro-controllers, resistors, etc, etc.

The USB device and Windows application makes things a lot easier to work with and opens up a lot more possibilities like reading xml files, posting things to my website, local logging, and obviously the more powerful environment.

I have plans to read the recipes into the controlling programme to set up hop addition alarms, mashing schedules, etc, etc. I think this may rule BrewMate (although I haven't tried the latest version) out as they don't have an XML export, just a plain text. I can always munge through a text file I suppose, but XML would be easier.


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## Edak (2/7/12)

angus_grant said:


> I did play with a NetDuino (which is based on the Arduino micro-controller platform) which uses the Microsoft Micro .Net platform. I just found the environment a little constricting. You could use Visual studio to develop and debug the app which was very nice. But it actual device was a little restrictive with regards to available memory, network interfacing and graphical display. The electronics side was the bit I was suffering a bit on with not really having much experience with micro-controllers, resistors, etc, etc.
> 
> The USB device and Windows application makes things a lot easier to work with and opens up a lot more possibilities like reading xml files, posting things to my website, local logging, and obviously the more powerful environment.
> 
> I have plans to read the recipes into the controlling programme to set up hop addition alarms, mashing schedules, etc, etc. I think this may rule BrewMate (although I haven't tried the latest version) out as they don't have an XML export, just a plain text. I can always munge through a text file I suppose, but XML would be easier.



I would have thought that the Netduino would have had the balls to do what you want re: webserver and such. I have a regular Arduino with Ethernet (called a EtherTen) as part of my ferm/conditioning fridge sending temperature data to my web server, where I store it in a SQL database so no need for local logging. It can also take adjustments via HTTP requests. Although the code only just fits in there, the spec on Netduino is significantly larger than Arduino in terms of memory and code-space.

I was going to do such a thing with my "Braumiser/hbBM" but I think that it's a little overkill for something that's only being used occasionally. Instead I might just connect up an XRF/Xbee link to my computer for sending serial data across.

Don't get me wrong, I am not having a dig at your project, in fact I love what you are doing as it's very similar to my set up which should be completed soon. 

With respect to the recipe parsing, XML is DEFINITELY the way to go. I work with XML every day and it's just so easy.

Totally want to see the pics of the complete system with heating coils and plumbing.


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## angus_grant (2/7/12)

There are people who are running brewery system using the Netduino (and Arduino) so the horsepower is there. It was more the hoops I was having to jump through to get temp reading (using beta firmware to get 1-pin working) working, and then an LCD display working, and then I would have had to run a network cable to brewery system to have uploads to database. Or try getting a wireless network card working. So solving problems instead of moving forward.

I found a USB device in Jaycar which had the analogue/digital pins and temp reading, and then an even cheaper one online. Looked exactly like what I wanted and allowed a full-blown Windows application to control the system. Full MS framework, networking already done, XML parsing of recipe files, etc, etc. No worries about code-space, log file size, memory restrictions, etc, etc. It was just easier for me. And the project has advanced more in the last week than the last month as I am not solving little problems, I am solving bigger problems which results in progress.

Basically it boils down to the fact I am very comfortable in my big stinky bloated MS C# WinApp sandbox... :lol:

Now that I have a working prototype powering a heating element I can start looking at getting a heating element for my main vesel. That will be the next big step and means I can start doing the plumbing side of the system: fitting the skins, plumbing and wiring in the recirculating pump, cutting up the inner pot, sealing, etc. Once I have the pump and plumbing fitted I can start work on maintaining temps. Although that will be a bit of a dodge as there won't be any grains in the inner vessel.

I can then move forward on the filter plates and finish off the temperature control on the system. Then it would be about time to make my first AG beer!! :chug:


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## seamad (2/7/12)

I get lost when you fellas start talking about arduino etc, no idea what it is. Is it similiar to my auber ramp/ soak pid thatyou make yourselves or something compltetly different?


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## angus_grant (2/7/12)

Yes, the Arduino setups or my setup perform a similar job to your Auberin ramp/soad pid (although I don't know if you have a recirculating pump wired to the PID). The difference being that the whole process is controlled by computer software and not buttons on the front of a device. So the theory is that we can then automate other processes after mashing.

So a very future version of my system would be that when mashing process is complete, the computer software would cause a winch to raise the malt pipe out of the main vessel. During the mash process a second pot is heating up sparge water to the correct temp. Once the malt pipe is raised, the software would switch on a pump to move the sparge water into the malt pipe which would then drain into the main vessel for our pre-boil volume. Once the sparging is complete, the software would fire the heating element and commence boiling.

At its very basic, you are correct in saying that the Arduino setups (or mine) don't do much more than your Auberin PID.


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## seamad (2/7/12)

Sounds pretty awesome, would take a bit of setting up but then...really easy brewday. Obviously very desirable for a microbrewery as well.
Cheers
Sean


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## angus_grant (2/7/12)

yeh, all that stuff is way down the track.  

My goal for the first working version is to control multi-step mashes, pump rests and then addition alarms at the correct points in the boil (for hops, adjuncts, etc), and also maintaining sparge water temp in second Big W pot. This will have a manually operated pump on it to transfer sparge water onto malt pipe. Drawing out the malt pipe will be a manual procedure.


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## angus_grant (12/7/12)

Well some progress has been made this week. I ended up throwing out the PID sample I had downloaded. WAY too complicated when trying to learn things. I ended up writing my own PID library using the C# sample and various online tutorials. Still dialling in the various factors, but I think I am starting to get a handle on it.

Below is a screenshot of the Windows application. You can't actually see the "setpoint value" (target temp) line in the graph as it is covered by the "process value" (current temp. And yes I have already fixed the typo). I will be doing some ramping tests tomorrow night to see how it reacts when rampaging up to the target temp as I have been currently testing small ramping from 55 to 65 or 60 to 65. I am currently providing constant power until the process value is 85% of the target temperature and then switching over to using the PID algorithm to control the intermittent shots of power on the heating element. All this "tuning" I a doing will be useless as it will all need to be done once I move into the full vessel.

I'll put up a screenshot of the ramping tests tomorrow night.






I'm also going to have to pick up a calibrated thermometer somewhere. The digital one I have reads about 4 degrees higher than the temp probe I am using in the system so not quite sure which one is correct.


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## Edak (12/7/12)

angus_grant said:


> Well some progress has been made this week. I ended up throwing out the PID sample I had downloaded. WAY too complicated when trying to learn things. I ended up writing my own PID library using the C# sample and various online tutorials. Still dialling in the various factors, but I think I am starting to get a handle on it.
> 
> Below is a screenshot of the Windows application. You can't actually see the "setpoint value" (target temp) line in the graph as it is covered by the "process value" (current temp. And yes I have already fixed the typo). I will be doing some ramping tests tomorrow night to see how it reacts when rampaging up to the target temp as I have been currently testing small ramping from 55 to 65 or 60 to 65. I am currently providing constant power until the process value is 85% of the target temperature and then switching over to using the PID algorithm to control the intermittent shots of power on the heating element. All this "tuning" I a doing will be useless as it will all need to be done once I move into the full vessel.
> 
> ...



So have you obtained the heating element for your main vessel yet? For the same size and almost the same build I bought a 2400W element from thermal products. I haven't tested it yet, but it is mow finally mounted in my pot. I am so close to running my set up through a test, I just need to fit the LCD and buttons into my electronics box then I can get the heating/programming right, then worry (again) about my filter plates.

It's so much fun building this stuff, when it's complete I hope it was worth the effort works because it certainly looks awesome.


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## angus_grant (12/7/12)

Nahh, haven't ordered element for main vessel.

I have ordered a normal 2400W element for my second Big W pot to mess around with larger scale temp control, and may try and grab some used grain to simulate the affect grain will have on temp control.

Did you order a custom bent one which wraps around the inner vessel? I think this is going to be the big expense of the system, unless I have to replace the cheap Handy Imports SS pot I am using for the main vessel.

Yep, I am enjoying the process although my wife just rolls her eyes when I bury myself behind the papers, wires, and boxes. Stealing the kettle from the kitchen to test the temp processes isn't really appreciated either. he he...

Looking forward to getting some actual building done. It has mainly being electronics so far, but it doesn't really look that impressive. Just a few wires and a box...


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## insane_rosenberg (12/7/12)

angus_grant said:


> I have plans to read the recipes into the controlling programme to set up hop addition alarms, mashing schedules, etc, etc. I think this may rule BrewMate (although I haven't tried the latest version) out as they don't have an XML export, just a plain text. I can always munge through a text file I suppose, but XML would be easier.



You're correct: BrewMate does not have XML export. They don't need that feature as their default save file is Beer XML.


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## angus_grant (12/7/12)

yeh, I was having a look last night to see if there was an update and their feature list stated Beer XML save format. Bonus.

So looks like I'll be using Beer Mate for my recipes. Should be able to read in the XML into my app and build a "brew day" schedule on the fly direct from the recipe. Saweet!!


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## Edak (12/7/12)

I like the idea of import from xml, I might do something over a serial connection.

Angus, I ordered the H03797 (2280mm 2400w 240v) bendable element and asked that they bend it for me using my BigW malt pipe as a template. After I described how I wanted it to be bent - and after they stopped laughing (literally) - they actually did bend it for me. They would not let me go into their workshop but they did a reasonable job in the end even if not entirely to my design I was able to work with it and they made it VERY low profile (pics to come). It cost me about $135 and was almost ready to fit with a little persuasion here and there.

I can't wait to test the system (even if without the grain and filter plates) this weekend.


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## matho (12/7/12)

angus_grant said:


> Well some progress has been made this week. I ended up throwing out the PID sample I had downloaded. WAY too complicated when trying to learn things. I ended up writing my own PID library using the C# sample and various online tutorials. Still dialling in the various factors, but I think I am starting to get a handle on it.
> 
> Below is a screenshot of the Windows application. You can't actually see the "setpoint value" (target temp) line in the graph as it is covered by the "process value" (current temp. And yes I have already fixed the typo). I will be doing some ramping tests tomorrow night to see how it reacts when rampaging up to the target temp as I have been currently testing small ramping from 55 to 65 or 60 to 65. I am currently providing constant power until the process value is 85% of the target temperature and then switching over to using the PID algorithm to control the intermittent shots of power on the heating element. All this "tuning" I a doing will be useless as it will all need to be done once I move into the full vessel.
> 
> ...



Looks good Angus, thanks for posting



Edak said:


> I like the idea of import from xml, I might do something over a serial connection.
> 
> Angus, I ordered the H03797 (2280mm 2400w 240v) bendable element and asked that they bend it for me using my BigW malt pipe as a template. After I described how I wanted it to be bent - and after they stopped laughing (literally) - they actually did bend it for me. They would not let me go into their workshop but they did a reasonable job in the end even if not entirely to my design I was able to work with it and they made it VERY low profile (pics to come). It cost me about $135 and was almost ready to fit with a little persuasion here and there.
> 
> I can't wait to test the system (even if without the grain and filter plates) this weekend.



hey Edak, I'm really keen on seeing your setup please post pictures soon

cheers steve


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## Edak (13/7/12)

matho said:


> Looks good Angus, thanks for posting
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Will post them in the braumiser thread hopefully this weekend.


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## angus_grant (28/7/12)

Well, you can over-capatilise.  

I have taken a break from the electronics and computer side of the build and moved onto the sparge water heater. It will also double as my boil prototype system for extract brewing whilst I am am building up the main vessel. reading beer.xml files, count-down timer, addition alarms, etc, etc.

Anyways, onto the pics.

A shot of the side.Ball valve plus cam-locks at the front, thermowell at the rear and 2400W heating element.





A shot of the inside of the pot. Yes, I ended up getting some tools and rotating the heating element slightly so it was properly vertical.





A shot of the 3-piece ball valve plus cam-locks. Worth more than the entire Big W pot. ha ha





A shot of the rear of the pot. I still haven't decided where I am going to put the earth point. I am thinking of using the thermowell as an earthing point for the device. I still have to build up a waterproof box to house the wiring for the heating element and electrical plugs.





I don't know if you can get 1/2" ring terminals to earth out on the thermowell. Any other suggestions on how to earth the pot?


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## dent (28/7/12)

I'd just drill a hole in the pot nearby and use a stainless bolt to attach a lug to the outside. The bolt will seal nicely, and you know it will be a solid connection.


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## Maheel (29/7/12)

what if you soldered a lug / brass thread to the element (brass looking bit) or solder the wire direct to it 

not sure if you would get enough heat into it with a hand held iron but and i would be reluctant to use a torch.... 
old school large copper head iron would do it

or you could make a copper sheet "washer" for outside the element and earth into that 
I might make one for myself as i had the same issue...


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## Tex083 (29/7/12)

QldKev had some good info/pics of his setup. He used a metal Jiffy box and earthed that to the pot and element.
Something like http://theelectricbrewery.com/heating-elements?page=3

Im in the same boat, still looking for a soluition.


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## angus_grant (29/7/12)

yeh, I have read Kev's thread, but he tapped the earth screw through the bottom of his keg and doesn't use a pot like me. I would like to avoid yet another hole in the pot for the earth screw. I am wondering if I can drill a tiny hole through the heating element boss and put a small earth screw in there. This would be inside the waterproof box.

This may be a silly question but does a 240V earth need to be a specific size? Would a tiny screw just melt out if it was used to earth the entire vessel?

After doing some reading (most particularly the electric brewery site) I will probably end up using a metal box to provide ease of earthing. From what I can tell from their site though, it doesn't look like the main pot is earthed. The screw goes into the metal box. The silicon seal would insulate the box from the pot, wouldn't it? Does the element not require earthing inside the pot?

Plus using a plastic box like I have used to house the relays and electronics may end up melting if attached to this pot as I will be boiling some extract brews in it whilst building up the main vessel.


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## Edak (30/7/12)

I don't think that a tiny screw would melt out given that you are using an RCD (safety switch) which would turn off that power in a poofteenth of a second.

I had my friend weld lugs onto the base of my hbBM set up, to which I attached the motor. I later found that the motor is earthed through those metal screw points and thus the base is earthed, which is securely attached to the brew-pot, which is now earthed.. 

I will be using my home-made sous-vide as my sparge water vessel, instead of plumbing I will just take one scoop of water out at a time to pour through (rinse) the grain. It's also a way to keep the wife happy seeing as building it was "for her".


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## angus_grant (30/7/12)

Cool, sounds good. Off to Jaycar sometime this week to grab the metal box and start on the wiring of the sparge vessel/extract boiler. I'm getting somewhere slowly. ha ha..

Did a little bit of work on the boil software last night. Worked out some methods to provide count-down timers and coded those up. I think this weeks efforts will be to produce code to interpret beer.xml files and publish addition events into a grid on the form. Will need to integrate count-down timer results into the grid so I know how long until each addition. The main label on the form will be the next event.

No screen shots as it is very empty at the moment (textbox for boil time, button to start timer, and count-down label, and an empty grid)


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## angus_grant (30/7/12)

angus_grant said:


> After doing some reading (most particularly the electric brewery site) I will probably end up using a metal box to provide ease of earthing. From what I can tell from their site though, it doesn't look like the main pot is earthed. The screw goes into the metal box. The silicon seal would insulate the box from the pot, wouldn't it? Does the element not require earthing inside the pot?



And I did some more thinking on this: the element would earth out my pot as there is the 1/2" nut on the inside of the pot which would earth out the element to the pot, and it would be earthed inside the metal box with the element and boss contacting the metal box.

Problem solved. Thanks chaps...


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## QldKev (30/7/12)

angus_grant said:


> yeh, I have read Kev's thread, but he tapped the earth screw through the bottom of his keg and doesn't use a pot like me. I would like to avoid yet another hole in the pot for the earth screw. I am wondering if I can drill a tiny hole through the heating element boss and put a small earth screw in there. This would be inside the waterproof box.
> 
> This may be a silly question but does a 240V earth need to be a specific size? Would a tiny screw just melt out if it was used to earth the entire vessel?
> 
> ...




On my kettle, I'm running 3 elements all of which the diecast enclosures are held into place using the thread of the element. No extra holes are needed in the pot for either the mounting of the diecast enclosure or for an earth. The earth is picked up in the enclosure which is in contact to the kettle / element / water. 

Hopefully this pic clears it up.




I would not trust a poor earth pickup, if it fails then you can become the earth circuit. A good solid nut and bolt are used on all of mine. The diecast enclosure has a clean path for the current as it directly contacts the element, which is also in contact with the water. I would only ever use the silicone seal on the inside of the pot, so the outside of the element is in contact with the pot. 

QldKev


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## angus_grant (30/7/12)

Thanks for the clarification Kev. It must have been another build that had the earth bolt tapped into the bottom of the keg.

I think at the moment that the seal for my element is on the outside of the pot and is sealing. I'll need to make sure having the silicon seal on the inside will still provide a good leak-proof seal.

From looking at your mounting system, I'll basically rip it off.  Has a lot of the features that I was looking to do: run cable directly inside box through water-proof entry point to help with water-proofing, heavy duty wiring, etc, etc.


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## angus_grant (31/7/12)

Picked up the metal box enclosure from Jaycar. The guy looked a bit peeved when I walked in the door at 5:25. ha ha. But in and out by 5:28.

I did some more work on the boil controller software. I will do a few extract brews whilst finishing off the main vessel to work out the bugs. Controller will fire the heating element to boil the water and once boiling I can add the extract and initial bittering hops. The software has a main boil count-down timer, and then in the grid has a list of fermentables and a list of hops. The hop line items have a separate count-down timer for when they are supposed to be added. Once the hops gets inside 10 minutes the line goes red. At 3 minutes before each addition an alarm goes off to warm me that something needs doing. I am contemplating deleting the line item once added as this will clean up the grid.

Oh, and all the details are imported straight from BrewMate's beer.xml files. So just build recipe in BrewMate, get IBUs right, OG, etc, etc and then load recipe file into boil controller. No double entry. Saweet. My favourite part of the software so far.

Anyways, a picture is worth a thousand words.


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## angus_grant (12/8/12)

Well, the boiling software was given its first use last night. I boiled up an extract batch of gluten-free Oz Pale Ale pilsener beer-type stuff for my sister. The count-down software worked flawlessly and everything went to plan. About the only tweak I will do is to change the count-down times in the grid to count the seconds down once they get inside a minute.

For my next batch I will hook up the laptop to the USB data acquisition device, and plug the boiling pot into the control box to test out this part of the set-up. That way I can log some temps, ramping time, etc, etc. For this batch I just plugged the boiler straight into the wall and used the software as nothing more than count-down timers.

I will really need to look into some proper (looking) heat-proofing. I borrowed two silicon pads from the kitchen (I even asked the wife before I took them - I'm learning) to insulate the bottom of the pot, and wrapped my general purpose "brewery" towel around the pot to insulate the sides. Not all that professional looking. I will probably look at Clark Rubber for a solution as most people seem to have had good results with their products.

Got quite a nice strong boil going once I used the pads and towel. The boil the other night was fairly weak. I felt the table afterwards and it was toasty warm, so figured I would have to use some form of insulation. The table was still a little bit warm with the pads. I am using a 2400W Thermal Products straight heating element. All heavy duty cabling in the box and to the wall. Cables all felt perfectly normal although it was about 9 degrees last night so that would have helped out a fair bit.

Dodgy phone photo:





So the boil software proves to be successful. I am pondering the idea of releasing the software so people on here can use it for brew timers. Given that it can extract all the details from beer.xml files straight into the grid, hop amounts, times, adjuncts, etc, etc it may be useful to people instead of typing it twice, or just using a kitchen timer and pieces of paper next to the hop additions. It would be a Microsoft Windows only application and would mean you would need a pc near your brewing station though. Or plug some loud speakers into the your pc? Anyone interested?


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## angus_grant (12/8/12)

Just realised I didn't post up any photos of the heating element box and wiring that I have completed. I did exactly the same as Kev's design from above. Seal on the inside, box sealed on the outside, earth point with beefy big bolt into the side of the metal box. You can see the bolt head on the outside of the right-hand side of the box.











I used a heavy duty 10A extension cord which I only just cut the plug off, so have 4 metres of cable. I will certainly cut this down when I have moved further along the design process for the over-all system, but at this stage I like the flexibility of the length.


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## Raf (12/8/12)

I'm also going to have to pick up a calibrated thermometer somewhere. The digital one I have reads about 4 degrees higher than the temp probe I am using in the system so not quite sure which one is correct. 
[/quote]


All temp probes in dairies and breweries are calibrated with the following method.

Have small insulated drink cooler or at a pinch just a jug filled with ice and water and then also your kettle just boiled or boiling. 
Place probe and thermometer in ice water see which reads closest to zero then place in the boiling / hot water and see which reads closet to 100 deg C. If your temp probe is out maybe you can have temp adjustment on your whiz bang program


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## angus_grant (18/8/12)

Well, I think I have solved my top filter plate problem, and all for the measly price of $40 for 316 stainless steel. And thanks to Whitworths again, who I got my skin fittings from. I grabbed their catalogue and was reading through it and something caught my eye. Something very interesting!

34 cms in diameter. It was all sounding too good to be true. The grill sits inside the pot nicely, I have yet to figure out if my original catch system will still work (some 316 stainless hatch locks from Whitworths as well), And I will be able to attach the stainless wire mesh I have to the bottom of the plate. I can't physically flex the grill by hand, and I tried pretty hard.... So I think the problem is solved. B) And all for $40...

I will need to have a bit of extra water to get over the lip but I don't think that is a big deal...

So here is a shot of the grill cooker on top of my Big W malt pipe:


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## Dan Pratt (1/10/12)

Hi Angus, 

How is the build coming along>>I d imagine its up and running by now......can we see some pics and specs?? 

Dan


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## angus_grant (1/10/12)

Well, the build has stalled a bit whilst I re-evaluate some components. The temp probe I had was a DS18B20 sheathed in a stainless probe. I then had this sitting inside a stainless thermowell. Even with thermal paste, it was not giving quick accurate temp results. I have ordered some weldless DS18B20 temp probes and am waiting for them to arrive.

In the mean time I am writing some fermentation controller software. I will be using some cheaper 25A SSR's to control a fridge and heating mat for my fermentation fridge. This will be controlled by the USB data acquisition device and I will still have spare power outlets for the braumiser.

I will have to get hold of a mate who used to be a stainless steel worker to weld up my top filter plate with the latches so get that sealing. I haven't really put my mind to the bottom filter plate or the bottom seal. I will most probably use some silicon baking sheets cut into shape.

The other thing I am playing with is sealing the malt pipe down against the main vessel from the top instead of the central threaded rod which is a common design. I figure I should be able to develop some clamping system from the handles of the main vessel.

Anyways, progress has stalled a bit with the temp probe problems. I will be ordering the heating element for the main pot next so I will have to make sure of that design and order it. I think I may have some slight problems with sealing the element to the pot as the pot I have has a steel base attached to the pot for even heat distribution. The edge of this base is right where the heating elements will come out through the bottom, so I may have some sealing problems. Hopefully the seal inside the pot will stop any leaks.


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## angus_grant (26/10/12)

Well I received the new temp probes (about 2 weeks ago) and they are certainly quicker to respond to temp changes and are also very close to one of my digital thermometres. I will probably still pick up a glass thermo somewhere just to be completely over the top. My next task is to wire one of these into my fermentors so I can then control the fridge or heating pad with the fermentation controller portion of my software. Will be able to power fridge or heating pad, and log temps to local database.

I have also found a company local to me Helios who do hot water elements, industrial elements, drum heating elements, etc, etc. They are going to bend up an element for me. The guy said around $150 and it should be around 6-7cms high in the pot so 3 cms lower than my projected 10cm which results in a slightly lower minimum water level. They should be giving me a call Monday or Tuesday. All I know so far is that it will be a 2400W low-powered element. Apparently they did the exact same thing for a guy a couple of weeks ago. Ahh, I forgot to mention that the guy said it would be too hard for the element to come out through the bottom of the pot due to the extra plate welded to the bottom. This ends slightly in from the edge of the pot bottom and right where the element would exit from the pot preventing a good seal.

And I talked to a sheety mate who confirmed I'd be able to pop-rivet the latch to the grill and the malt pipe as well to finalise the locking system. I will then just use a voile sheet for filtering. I then have to finalise the bottom filter but that will happen after I attach the bottom plumbing, inlet and outlet, thermo-well, pump, etc and work out how much clearance I need.

So some progress is finally being made. It's a bit hard with a 6 month old getting enough time to work on this...


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## angus_grant (11/11/12)

I have finally installed the custom bent 2400W heating element I purchased a few weeks ago. Haven't quite finished the install off but fired it up this afternoon.

It took about an hour to get up to boiling temps. I will definitely have to insulate the pot as it was a very gentle boil. Certainly got a better boil when the lid was on but I can't have the lid on whilst boiling the beer for various reasons. May work up a custom lid with overflow like Edaks (I think) if the insulation does not improve the boiling rate.




Shot of the control box with holes drilled for element terminals



Shot of the pot with the marks for the holes.



A glass of courage before I drill holes in my expensive stainless pot.



The pot with the holes drilled in it. Hope they are in the right spot.



yay, element screwed in and the holes are in the correct spot. I only measured the holes about 35 times each so they should have been in the right spots.



Control with the element installed. This is the leak test and I left the water in there for about 4 hours and not a drop.

So should now be able to get some BIAB brews done whilst doing up the malt pipe / inner vessel build.


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## angus_grant (20/11/12)

Even more progress. Wow, stuff is happening. I had the element wired up and some test boils proved that I did need to work on insulation to actually achieve a boil. It would sit on around 98 degrees bubbling mildly. So off to BCF, $15 for a double camp mattress and another $15 for some bungee straps. 30 minutes with a texta, scissors, and a scalpel and voila:






So things are somewhat improved. The temp ramping is a lot quicker with 80 degrees achieved about 15 minutes faster than before with no insulation but still did not achieve a good rolling boil. Was slightly stronger than before though. I had my pot sitting on two silicon pads from the kitchen and when I shifted the pot, the wooden bench was quite warm. So I cut up some of the camp mat as a base insulation and that achieved a slightly stronger boil but still not a good rolling boil. Bench was still a bit warm so perhaps another layer of mat.

As soon as I put the lid on, bam good boil which is obviously not a solution. So I think I will have to go with the solution posted in other threads about floating a pie tin or something to cut down on the surface area to achieve a good boil. Edak has built a domed lid for his system with a hole in the top and drainage system to drain off the condensation which is something I will have to go with as well.

What really worries me is that this was only with 20L of water, not 28L of wort...


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## QldKev (20/11/12)

Are you using a long cheap extension cord? I had a cheapie 10m cord on mine and the boil was suffering. A mate gave me a extra heavy duty cord and it has helped my boil. Looking deeper into it the cheap cords are 10amp cord 1.0mm2, the tradey cords are actually 15amp cord 1.5mm2 with 10am plugs. 

QldKev


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## angus_grant (20/11/12)

It is a heavy duty 10A extension cord I bought from Bunnings. It is probably 5 metres long although I would have to measure it tonight. Feels quite substantial and hard to bend and certainly more substantial than the ordinary extension cords in the house. I figured at the time it would be running max power (10A for the boil) for 90 minutes so I should go with heavy duty to handle the workload.

I'll check the wiring thicknesses tonight though. And I did have the system plugged into a cheapy power board so might try plugging directly into the outlet to see if that makes a difference.

Good suggestion Kev! Cheers.


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## stux (20/11/12)

Does the cord get warm?


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## angus_grant (20/11/12)

Nope. I checked that fairly frequently the first time I ran the system.

Last night the cord was lying on a concrete floor in my car-port (open on one side) and there was a decent breeze around and the cord was normal temp. The plug in the powerboard was very slightly warm and the cord coming out of the junction box was normal temp so I don't think the wiring is getting stressed. And I don't really think the weather had much to do with keeping the cord cool.


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## angus_grant (21/11/12)

Well last night I ran the power cord straight from the power-point and not much difference. Two base layers of camping mat didn't seem to make much difference to the boiling, but ramping time was reduced a little bit more. Having the lid slightly open resulted in a good strong boil so looks like I will be manufacturing a lid for it. I quite like Edak's method. He used a stainless mixing bowl and got some tubing which he cut and wrapped around the base of the bowl. The bottom of the bowl was removed so some of the steam could escape out the top. Steam which condenses on the bowl trickles down the lid into the tube and then out of the system

Edak's lid system (Images copied from his post on the Braumiser thread.)


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## mxd (21/11/12)

my thin urn with a 2200 watt element could never get to a boil with 28 ltrs of wort, so I used to use an immersion for boil and single for mash etc..


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## angus_grant (21/11/12)

Did you have any insulation on the urn?

I have yet to do a wort boil in the system, only plain water. It certainly gets up to 99 degrees but can't quite nudge over into strong boil. The lid will fix that problem.

My plan is to build the lid for it, and then do an extract IPA (and maybe some other extracts) to see how wort boiling performs. Once I have the boiling happening correctly, then I will do a few BIABs whilst finishing off the inner vessel.


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## mxd (22/11/12)

I did, it may have been a bit loose.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&id=35055


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## angus_grant (22/11/12)

Hmm, I guess I will have to build the lid and then see what happens.

I am getting a very mild boil, just not a strong boil like you are used to seeing. There is plenty of evaporation happening so it might just be a perception thing and it is boiling / hot enough to extract oils from the hops, boil off DMS, and whatever is supposed to happen whilst boiling.


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## mxd (22/11/12)

angus_grant said:


> Hmm, I guess I will have to build the lid and then see what happens.
> 
> I am getting a very mild boil, just not a strong boil like you are used to seeing. There is plenty of evaporation happening so it might just be a perception thing and it is boiling / hot enough to extract oils from the hops, boil off DMS, and whatever is supposed to happen whilst boiling.




if your evaporating 7% + in an hour you have a boil that is good, so get some grain and give it a shot.

Instead of a lid you can use some "suitable" item that floats on top of the wort (small plate or the like that floats/won't melt/food safe)


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## iralosavic (22/11/12)

mxd said:


> if your evaporating 7% + in an hour you have a boil that is good, so get some grain and give it a shot.
> 
> Instead of a lid you can use some "suitable" item that floats on top of the wort (small plate or the like that floats/won't melt/food safe)




This will actually work better than a lid because you are reducing the deadspace between the surface area and the lid. When I did full volume single batches (ie 28L boils) with my 2200w element, floating a cake tin was the only way I could get suitable boil vigour/evaporation.


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## angus_grant (22/11/12)

A cake tin / whatever has a much quicker fabrication time than a lid.  I can then get around to building the lid while I am still doing some AG batches.

I suppose one small problem is that I use a hop sock which may get in the road of the tin. Will have a look at that.

Thanks for the tips guys.


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## Dan Pratt (22/11/12)

Angus, 

what size is teh boil pot? and the element wattage? does that elemenet have only the single loop?

Im thinking that the element isnt enough to boil that size, especially if its only 1 round ring, the BM's have 2-3 loops>

Dan


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## angus_grant (22/11/12)

The boil pot is 50L and 40cm in diameter.

The element is a 2400W element with 3 loops.

I think where I am losing out is that the pot is square in that it is 40cm high and 40cm diameter so there is too much surface area to get a good strong boil going. The pie tin (or lid when I build it) will get a good strong boil going. The element gets a very gentle boil going with some evaporation. I haven't measured % boil off yet


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## iralosavic (22/11/12)

Hop socks will have a tendency to float, so as long as the pie tin leaves enough surface area to share, they'll just float in harmony. Even just a 20cm D tin will be plenty enough surface area reduction to get you a vigorous boil.


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## angus_grant (22/11/12)

Yeh, I don't think I will require much to get the strong boil happening. Off to get a pie tin tonight. Do they make them in stainless???


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## matho (23/11/12)

angus_grant said:


> Yeh, I don't think I will require much to get the strong boil happening. Off to get a pie tin tonight. Do they make them in stainless???


hey angus, 

with a 40 cm opening you will be loosing about 90% of your energy out the top of the pot, so that will explain the long times and lack of a strong boil, if you reduce the opening to 30cm or get a pie dish 13cm in diameter then the energy loss drops to 50%

cheers steve


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## angus_grant (23/11/12)

Well I wasn't able to get a pie tin and I have a full day installing a new patio at our unit so no beer-related shopping tomorrow.  On the plus side, I will be able to get my kegerator and ferment fridge back around the back and out of the car port and then park the car in the car-port.

Cheers Steve. I found a good page on pot sizes, boiling power, pot diameter, etc after I purchased my pot. But I think ripping off Edaks lid system will achieve good string boils. And the pie tin will be a great interim solution so I can start nailing out some BIABs.

Doing some work on my ferment controller tonight. Wiring up the DS18B20 stainless temp probe I have to a fermentor and will hook that up to my data acquisition device. Will then be logging ferment temp info to the laptop and controlling a SSR to power the fridge when required. Will hopefully get that finished on Sunday as I have to get a Morgans Golden Saaz kit on the ferment in time for Xmas. Will be cutting it a bit fine including lagering time.


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## stux (24/11/12)

SS bowl will work too.


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## angus_grant (7/1/13)

A friend told me about a kitchen warehouse place (on the corner of Tooheys road and Evans Road in Moorooka in Brisbane). Went there and they had one remaining SS pot (although very thin) in the exact size I needed. And for the princely sum of $15 including 15% discount).

10 minutes with the dremel and voila: spanky new hood for my brau-clone






I was getting some bits and pieces from CraftBrewer and took a video in of the boil. Ross had a look and said it was fine. He also mentioned that the hood was allowing enough steam out to not worry about DMS (it is actually about the same dimensions as the BM hood) so at this point, I will not be worrying about drainage for the hood. Simplifies things somewhat although I will have to work out a "condensation return system" as the pot allows dripping down the outside of the pot. This will be easier than a drainage system though. Done...

Also drilled hole in the pot for one of the stainless skin fittings and fitted brown pump and 3-piece ball valve and then cam-lock fittings. I may look at doing a recirc BIAB run for the first run, but my initial thinking it to keep it as simple as possible so probably just normal BIAB. Will need tweak some changes for my PID temp control processes (running ferment fridge at the moment) to control the mashing process before I can do the BIAB though. This will also require making some hardware changes (extra temp probe plug plus extra power outlet) to control Brewton

Progress is finally being made....


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## spog (7/1/13)

doing an R2D2 clone brew are we.?  ....cheers....spog....


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## QldKev (7/1/13)

spog said:


> doing an R2D2 clone brew are we.?  ....cheers....spog....



Brewton after it's consumed a few of it's own


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## angus_grant (7/1/13)

Brewton after plugging it into a 15A socket... he he

I suppose it does bear some resemblance to R2. It's too late for a name change now, it's already got its own thread on AHB....


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## angus_grant (29/1/13)

Well it seems things are ticking along fairly well. I have now completed my temp probe installation. After much umming and ahhing: should I install it on the top of malt pipe, in bottom of main pot priotruding into the malt pipe, just sittign in outside liquid of main vessel I took some of Big Nath's advice on AHB and installed it in the main pipe. The mash liquid is always going to be recirculating and the liqiud spilling over the malt pipe down onto the element will be the coolest liquid in the system.

And at some point the system should reach a temperature equilibrium so it doesn't really matter where I measure the temp from.



Temp probe installation in main pot




Temp probe from control box on main pot.
The two red wires hanging around are from the heating element. I will have to wire them back up to run some heating and temp reading tests later this week





The control box where my data acquisition device is, the two Auberins solid state relays are. This is the temp probe plugged in to the control box and providing some temp readings.

At the moment I have my fermentation fridge hooked up to the control box and being controlled by software. I am thinking I will construct a new STC 1000 device to control the ferment temp as it is a stand-alone device and doesn't need to reboot for upgrades. My laptop has rebooted itself a couple of times so I would have to set up an automatic logon and get my control software to boot up automatically for it to be a feasible way to contrl fermentation. The STC 1000 is attractive as it doesn't need software upgrades and when powered up just starts off from where it left with regards to temp settings. Any way, something for me to ponder.


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## angus_grant (31/1/13)

Well now comes the hard part: tuning the PID library. I have been doing some testing on my PID library and I think I have it dialed in.





A shot of the software side of the controller. You can only see one line in the graph as the target temperature and current temperature are close enough.





An outside shot of the system with the little brown pump recirculating the water to the top of the system to achieve a consistent temperature




An inside photo of the pot with my glorious recirculating system. I am thinking I will recirculate the mash water when I do my first BIAB batch this weekend.

Stay tuned!


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## Edak (31/1/13)

Looking great Angus, I think it will get the job done just right.


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## angus_grant (1/2/13)

Did some ramping tests and maintaining temps tests last night and finally found remaining bug (that I know about) about ramping temps and switching over to PID mode within 95% of target temp. Was to do with PID library not being instantiated properly and then providing an element firing time of about 30 seconds when current temp was inside 95% range. 30 seconds is good for 4 or 5 degrees increase so this is bad when you are at 64 and target temp is 65 and you end up at 70 degrees. Sounds confusing and it took me ages to find the bug.

So will do some final tests tonight and if all is good, will brew my first AG tomorrow morning. waaahhhhh!!!!! I have booked out the morning but yet to tell 'er indoors it might take the whole morning. h34r: shhhhh..

I'll have to clean out one of my cubes as I will have to no-chill my first batch as I still have a Coopers IPA kit in the fermenting fridge. I may actually fire up my spare fridge and put the wort into a cube but then chill it in the fridge. So the boiling wort into cube should provide some additional sanitising and then the fridge should prevent any infection or wild yeast activity.

Ooh, that reminds me, I have to fit my sight glass to the pot tonight.

:super:


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## Diesel80 (1/2/13)

Should have booked the whole day off mate.

Generally first AG is a total, yet enjoyable clusterf*ck!

Good luck mate! Can't wait for the report.

Cheers,
D80


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## Dan Pratt (1/2/13)

can we get a look at your malt pipe and filters? how will they function for the mashing.


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## angus_grant (1/2/13)

Hmm, maybe I should book the whole day off....... :blink:

My first AG will be a BIAB. I am still working on the malt pipe, filters and seals. As per a previous post in this thread, I will be using a stainless bbq grill with voile filter fitted for the top filter. I am thinking of using a normal 9" false bottom for the bottom filter. I will lose a little bit of volume so will have to do some calculations on that to see how it affects my max grain bill. I will have to work out a way to seal the hole where the elbow was fitted in the false bottom as I am yet to find somewhere that sells a false bottom with no elbow 





I wonder know whether I could use a 12" false bottom for the top filter. The top of the Big W pot is 30cm and 12" false bottom is 30cm. Coincidence???? And the beauty of that is the volume I lose in the domed bottom filter I gain in volume in the domed top filter. Hmmm, this is sounding too good to be true... And I just seal up the hole for the elbow with a plate and don't actually modify the false bottoms. SO if I was to move to 3V system I can still use the false bottoms.....

This sounds too good to be true. I have to be missing something...

Edet: spelling.


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## angus_grant (2/2/13)

Well fired off my first BIAB + no chill. I created a new thread.

Was pretty painless apart from draining the bag where I slightly burnt my left hand, which was painful. Will have to look at block and tackle or some lifting mechanism as it was a bit of hard work lifting the bag full of grain and wort. I imagine lifting the malt pipe will be similarly hard, although it will be resting on top of the main vessel to drain so different story I suppose.

All in all, a fairly easy brew day, got very close to most of the targets defined in Lord Raja's brewsheet. I bought some grain packs off him that he wasn't going to be able to use with his imminent relocation.

Software worked well, boiler worked well, etc, etc.


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## angus_grant (3/5/13)

My 4th AG brew tomorrow and I have made quite a few bug fixes and one very important (but fairly small) feature:





If you have trouble seeing the screenshot, it is an auto-start feature. So I have it scheduled to start ramping up to mash temps at 5:45 in the morning. The theory being that I wake up around 6:30, walk down stairs and mash in thereby saving 45 minutes or so of waiting around for temps to ramp up. Saweet


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## QldKev (4/5/13)

You would be saving more than 45min on brew day. 45min to hit strike temp plus all the setup time.

You ever thought of mashing in cold? I can't remember who is was but they used to throw the grain and cold water in when they went to bed. Next morning they would wake up at mash out. There was some threads on it a couple of years back.

QldKev


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## angus_grant (5/5/13)

Hey Kev,

Thanks for the suggestion. I am following a topic where Florian talks about doing an overnight mash but hasn't responded to someone's question about more details. I think I will still need to do a few more brews to make sure my mash programme all works correctly.

That would certainly make a brew day a lot more palatable to my wife than writing off an entire morning.

I ended up waking up at 5:45 anyways and couldn't get back to sleep so went down and watch the temp rise to mash temp anyways.... :blink:

Thanks,
Angus.


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## angus_grant (9/7/13)

Ooohh, back on the brau-clone pathway.

Toys ordered:

threaded rod, and various nuts and bolts to attach to pot. Am worried how my drill and bits are going to handle getting through the plate on the bottom of the pot.

And the big buy of the system: 230V inline Chugger pump. Has a stainless head and a bracket all included in the original purchase price. 






So will be getting some more work done on the brau-clone in the next few weeks. I have 11L of Belgian Triple, a 20L batch of Lord Nelson has almost finished fermenting, and I then have a batch of DSGA to ferment. So I will have 2 & 1/2 kegs to get this system working. he he


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## grimpanda (12/7/13)

Shaping up nicely Angus.

Did you buy the Chugger pump direct from the manufacturer? If so was it a custom order?
The only 230v pump I can see from them has a centre inlet.

Cheers,
Gabe


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## angus_grant (15/7/13)

Bought the chugger from the new Australian distributor: www.chugger.com.au. The website has both the inline and centre inlet. And 230V obviously although I still asked the question. he he

I'm yet to use the pump yet, but it certainly feels like a beast compared to the little brown pumps I have been using.

Hopefully this week and slightly possible this weekend will see a fair bit of work being done to Brewton. The weekend after is free at the moment so I hopefully should have all the parts procured by then and matter of drilling holes and bolting things on. Even the recirculating pump mounted on the bottom will really help out with the ramping speed as I will be able to have the lid sealing the pot completely. Will make things cleaner having the pump plumbed into the pot instead of silicon hose running off the tap and up outside the pot. My little fellow shouldn't be able to reach the silicon pipe but that is 66 degree liquid flowing through there.


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## angus_grant (11/8/13)

Well I finally got some solid time to work on my beer system. I purchased a pump about a month ago and hooked up some bits I purchased about a year ago.

So I have to finish off the malt pipe and then about 5 hours of software work and I should be able to crank out some beers.





A shot of the camlocks underneath the pot. The central camlock will be the pathway for the recirculating wort to enter into the system.





The chugger pump with the camlocks hooked up. The outlet of the pump has the ball valve to throttle down the flow rate if necessary.





The chugger pump hooked up to the camlocks. I will shorten the silicon tubing up before using the system to minimise heat loss.

I will also look at insulating the tubing as well to minimise heat loss.





A close-up of the central camlock and the very dodgy pine stand I whacked out in about 30 minutes.






A full shot of the system.

Please disregard the dodgy pine stand. I will be getting a friend to weld up a metal stand and add a touch of professionalism to the system. he he

I have done a leak test with the cam locks joined straight together and the only leaking was from the main ball-valve. I had run out of thread tape but thought I would run the leak test anyway. Off to Bunnings for some thread tape during the week and finalise the plumbing after another leak test.

Some really good progress this week.

Now onto the malt pipe which is going to be the challenge of the entire system. The sealing and also the bottom filter locating are going to be the key challenges for this phase.


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## djar007 (11/8/13)

I love those camlocks. Where did you source those? Been meaning to tidy up my plumbing with some and just starting the search for them now. Purple pig is an option but hoping for something cheaper.


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## angus_grant (11/8/13)

Got all the plumbing gear from CraftBrewer. I had read some threads about Chinese camlocks not fitting correctly and was a bit wary purchasing over the Internet/eBay/etc..

I had chosen the camlocks at CB and paid for them. I happened to test a couple of them and they were really hard to lock out. Felt like I was going to snap the handles. I could see the marks on the hose tails where the locks didn't quite fit in properly.

I swapped them all around and selected some ones that fitted together nicely. I didn't get an itemised receipt, but seem to remember about $15 for the cam-lock hose tail. Spent about $80 for the 3 camlock sockets and 3 hose tails. I liked getting a female socket which would screw straight onto the pump to reduce number of fittings when I pull it all apart to clean.


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## djar007 (12/8/13)

Great. I will go and have a look now. Thanks. I use four inch cam locks at work and they are usually a bugger to get on. I find putting one arm on a little. Then the other a little. Then I find a rock to bash them on. Love the build so far btw.


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## angus_grant (12/8/13)

CB only have 2 types of the camlock fittings on their website, even though they have 1/2" female sockets, 1/2" male sockets, caps, tail ends, male and female ends, etc, etc, etc. Basically about 3 metres of shelving with camlock fittings. Don't know why they don't have it all listed on their site.

4" cam lock fittings. :-O That's pretty big stuff...


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## QldKev (12/8/13)

Get your camlocks from T&S Valves (no affiliation), excellent quality and about half the cost of other retailers


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## angus_grant (2/9/13)

So have finished installing the cam-locks, stainless elbows, pump is wired up and working properly. Have fitted threaded rod. Pot has been sitting with water in it since Sunday morning and no leaks. I had minor leak through element holes which did not go into element control box which I have fixed and some final thread tape on bottom of threaded rod has resulted in a successful leak test.

Now onto carving up my Big W malt pipe and working on the bottom seal. I am figuring I will just get some short stainless bolts and get a folded food-grade silicon seal for the bottom. A 9" (or 12" if it fits) false bottom for the bottom filter which will be held down by some stainless bolts from the side of the malt pipe and I will be good to start testing the seals and pumping of water up and through the malt pipe. A voile filter for the top plate should hold the grain in. Get a stainless tube cross welded up to hold the filter plate on and I should then be good to start doing some test brews.

I have had to fall back on fermenting a toucan dark ale as I am down to one keg of DSGA left. Will be interesting going back to kit + bits to see what the taste difference will be.


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## micbrew (2/9/13)

g day angus

reading this thread with huge interest , what size malt pipe are you using and im curious on how you intend to seal malt pipe

I using a 70L Pot and was thinking of using a 21L POT and looking at how to seal and construct :blink:
I scored some fine perforated mesh , but it may be to fine for the job
keep the photos of the build going , their giving me inspiration , which sometimes waines :huh: from time to time

cheers mick


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## angus_grant (3/9/13)

At this stage I will be using a Big W 19L pot with the bottom cut out for my malt pipe. I need to start making beer so am thinking of using some silicon tubing cut in half to seal the bottom. All the bottom seal will be for is to stop (limit?) water flow out into the main pot so it is forced up through the grain.

I am going to be using a false bottom as my filter plate so that will stop the grain from escaping through the bottom during pump rests.

That's my idea at the moment. Not tested yet so it may not even work. he he Hopefully more work this weekend although I am looking after my little fella all of Saturday so that will limit things.


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## micbrew (5/9/13)

g day angus

I followed the masses and coughed up for Big W 19L POT ...AWESOME value for the $$ , picking up some skin fittings as well ...I will be using the LBP PUMP hope this will suffice :huh:
I'm using quick connects on the pump for ease ,

now the fun begins with trying to fabricate legs for the malt pipe ... I think I need to raise the pot approx. 60 >>>80 mmm
to clear the elements ( 2 x keg king type ) 
toying with the idea of all thread being centred (WELDED ) in my malt pipe so that I don't need to drill my 70L pot
and allowing the filters to be held securely

any thoughts on my ideas muchly appreciated

cheers mick


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## angus_grant (5/9/13)

Lots of guys have simply used long stainless bolts through pot (or to keep bag off elements in BIAB setups) to raise pot off elements. A nut inside the malt pipe, a nut on the bottom of the malt pipe and the bolt heads rests on the floor of your 70L. Make sure they are stainless though as you may get chemical reactions between metal types with any other types of metal bolts.

If you want to avoid drilling holes in your 70L then you are limited to the ball-valve for recirculation and tube outside to feed in top of pot down to inlet in your malt pipe. You could feed this in through side of malt pipe and then silicon tube to false bottom as per normal setups. I don't have enough experience to say that you could simply feed the recirc'd wort straight into the malt pipe and it would then flow evenly through grain and up through your top filter. I would doubt it though.

I toyed with the idea of not having a threaded rod at all but a clamp-type system running from the handles of the main pot and squashing the malt pipe down onto the main pot. Given that you are using tubing to recirculate (and no longer need to clamp the malt pipe to your 70L pot to seal) you might be able to use the clamping idea for your top filter. I got some stainless hatch locks to use for this idea

Something along these lines: https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?item=42120&search123=hatch&intAbsolutePage=1

I'm not sure how the very thin Big W pot would hold up to welding... Not very well I would think.

So in short,

stainless bolts as legs to raise malt pipe off heating elements
Recirc through ball valve and then tubing up into main pot and fitting on side of malt pipe to connect to silicon tubing which runs to false bottom inside malt pipe. You would need the side fitting as your filters will be clamped in place
Clamping the filters would be easily achieved if you can weld threaded rod to the Big W pot, otherwise you are looking at clamping-type solutions.
You may not even have to clamp your malt pipe to the main pot given you are using tubing to recirc
Hope this is understandable....


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## micbrew (5/9/13)

hmmm yeah

with the allthread I could have this welded to s/steel flat bar ...larger than the diameter of the pot ... that will work
drop filter into pot .... grain ..... filter .... flat bar....wing nut hey presto
and yeah will probably adapt and use those s/steel eye bolts ..did these also come from witworths ??

wing nut
I ...allthread
........i........ ........................... filter w/ flat bar
l l l
l l l
l l l
l l l
l l l
l........l...... .l ........................ filter
-l----- l-------l--- flat bar ....only held toegether by pressure fom either end ..ie flat bar ...top & bottom


I will use the skin fittings you have also used in the 70L POT for recirc ..

thx so much for putting up your build in been a great source of info for me

cheers mick


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## angus_grant (3/10/13)

Well some more time dedicated to Brewton. I ended up using some 1/2" silicon tubing and a short section of 8mm tubing. I tested the seal for about 10 minutes and no leaks through the silicon seal. I must have tweaked the seals on the threaded rod because I ended up getting a leak through the bottom of the threaded rod.

Some photos:



I savagely hacked out the bottom of the malt pipe. It was a bit late to continue using the grinder so I used some tin snips. I will tidy this up this week.



The circle of 1/2" silicon tubing.




You can just see the join in this photo. Quite a neat join together. I have yet to test it under pressure.




You can see the 8mm joining tubing inside the 1/2" silicon tubing. I did try using some 10mm tubing but this left to great a step in the silicon tubing and I got some leaks. The 8mm tube seems to hold the 1/2" tubing together but does not actually cause a step in the tubing.


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## Simdop (9/10/13)

angus_grant said:


> Bought the chugger from the new Australian distributor: www.chugger.com.au. The website has both the inline and centre inlet. And 230V obviously although I still asked the question. he he
> 
> I'm yet to use the pump yet, but it certainly feels like a beast compared to the little brown pumps I have been using.
> 
> Hopefully this week and slightly possible this weekend will see a fair bit of work being done to Brewton. The weekend after is free at the moment so I hopefully should have all the parts procured by then and matter of drilling holes and bolting things on. Even the recirculating pump mounted on the bottom will really help out with the ramping speed as I will be able to have the lid sealing the pot completely. Will make things cleaner having the pump plumbed into the pot instead of silicon hose running off the tap and up outside the pot. My little fellow shouldn't be able to reach the silicon pipe but that is 66 degree liquid flowing through there.


This may be an obvious question but why'd you go for the inline pump vs the centre inlet?


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## angus_grant (9/10/13)

The chugger centre inlet is a 3/4" thread and the inline is all 1/2". So I didn't really fancy the idea of having 1/2" threads through-out the whole system except one spot.

Apparently the centre inlets can be a little prone to air-locks and cavitation problems if not primed corectly.

And I seem to recall (not that this is really that important to my system) that the centre inlet has a slightly lower pumping rate.


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## grimpanda (29/11/13)

Hey Angus,

Good progress on the project.

How are you finding the 2400w element that you bought? No issues with scorching wort etc I take it?

Do you know what the total length of the element is?

Cheers,
Gabe


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## JoeyJoeJoe (4/12/13)

Hey angus did you stick the tube on with something or do you just place it and let the pressure hold it?


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## angus_grant (4/12/13)

Gabe said:


> Hey Angus,
> 
> Good progress on the project.
> 
> ...


The 2400W element has not scorched any wort yet. I did have to add a domed lid to decrease surface area to get a good rolling boil. Other people have simply floated a pie tin or something on the wort itself. The 2400W element doesn't provide enough grunt for a decent boil by itself in my 40cm diameter pot. However most normal homebrewing pots are narrow and high, where-as mine is fairly square (40cm diameter * 38cm height). Not quite sure on the height.

As a rough guess I reckon the length of the element is about 250cms. I had the element built and pre-bent for me by a place in Springwood, so no idea on the actual length of the element.



JoeyJoeJoe said:


> Hey angus did you stick the tube on with something or do you just place it and let the pressure hold it?


The internal 8mm joining tube is an interference fit.

If you are referring to the silicon tubing at the moment it is just clamping pressure from the malt pipe. I was thinking about bolting the tube through the malt pipe to the bottom filter to hold everything in place. I am now thinking about cutting very small slots in the bottom of a Big W pot as the bottom filter. One less thing to try and anchor and seal against grain. I think QldKev has done similar with his one vessel system.


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## angus_grant (6/1/14)

sheesh, this build is taking ages.

I booked out a day from my Xmas holidays to do man-stuff and have now got the malt pipe clamping down to the main boil pot. So I will have to finish cutting out the bottom to my malt pipe as the bit I cut out with tin snips has now rusted. he he.

I also hooked up the pump and the bottom seal idea works well. No water leaked through into the main pot whilst the flow control ball valve on the pump was shut off. Water recirculates when the pump is switched on so I think I have finished this part as well.

I have also dug out some stainless mesh I bought off someone at some point. It is the perfect size to seal the bottom of the malt pipe so I will need to work out how to clamp this to the bottom of the malt pipe.

I have attached a video of the system in progress. I am hoping that the stainless mesh down the bottom will distribute the liquid a little more evenly as it seems to just jet straight upwards from the skin fitting to the top.

Progress is again being made. I am hoping to get this finished in the next couple of weeks and knock out a batch of beer.

Cheers,
Angus. 

View attachment IMG_2511.MOV


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## angus_grant (7/2/14)

So time for a 2 monthly update. I drilled a crap load of holes in a spare Big W pot and I'll do my first test run through this as my malt pipe. Seems like a simple solution but will have to run a couple of brews through and see how things go. Efficiency wise and flow rates, etc. 

Will do a LRG cascading out of this galaxy APA. I have done this beer twice as a BIAB so have a basic expectation. 



jpg]


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## angus_grant (7/2/14)

I still have the other Big W pot I cut the bottom out of and at some point will build the mounting system for the stainless mesh to test out that design as well. Or I may do it earlier because the drilled holes design is a failure. No-one else building brau-clones has done it this way that I know of, so perhaps there is a reason.

Here's to hoping no grist falls out the holes during pump rests. **fingers crossed**

Don't think I'll get to doing a test this weekend but perhaps a quick mash test and throw out the liquid next week some time. Maybe a brew day in 2 Sunday's time........ :blink:

Better do some research on sparging. Haven't done it yet as have been doing full mash BIABs up until now.


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## angus_grant (20/2/14)

Some more progress on the malt pipe. I have got the seal for the bottom working well although this now requires a major re-think. As does the bottom filtering of the grains. The holes I drilled are letting through a bit too much of the smaller crushed grains. 

So I have some re-thinking to do:

top filter is working well so I think I can tick that off the list
bottom filter is not working too well. It is letting through a bit too much crushed grain and husk for my liking. There is a possibility of extracting off-flavours from grain husks during the boil
Another major problem is with the clamping system. The seal is not fixed to the bottom of the malt pipe so it is not possible to mash in properly. The seal will float off from the spot I need whilst mashing and stirring up the grain to avoid "dough-balls" (grain clumping together due to liquid).
So it looks like I am back to the bottom filter and seal system which I had thought at first. I have some stainless mesh which I will fix to the bottom of the malt pipe with some small stainless bolts. I will also cut the silicon tube in half and fix this with the same bolts running up through the tube, through the malt pipe, an then through the mesh and then fixing into a ring of stainless steel. This should provide a nice sealing and filtering system.
Kath has sewn up a filter cloth for the top filter plate which is working brilliantly. 










Pump turned on and pushing liquid up through the small amount of grain








A shot of the water after the malt pipe has been pulled out. Mental note: add the eye-bolts to the new inner pot)








A shot of the bottom of the main pot after liquid has been drained. Probably a little too much grain and husks in the bottom which would remain in th epot for the full boil period. I think I need to re-think the bottom filter system


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## Dan Pratt (20/2/14)

Can you put viola screen over the base filter aswell?


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## wide eyed and legless (20/2/14)

Angus what if you got a piece of silicone sheet and cut out your own seal with a good overlap on the inside and outside of the malt pipe, as for the filter at the bottom just get some stainless mesh cut it to size and punch a hole in the centre.Would that work for you?


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## Yob (20/2/14)

what an epic train ride reading this thread this morning, kept me well entertained.

:beerbang:


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## angus_grant (20/2/14)

The current model of malt pipe has about 35,000 little drill holes so not really possible to put a voile filter over it.

I can't really use a silicon sheet as I have two skinless fittings for pump inlet and outlet which protrude into the main pot. They are about 8mm high so too high for a silicon sheet seal. I will cut some small holes in the current tubing seal (which is working well) so I can feed a stainless bolt through and up into the malt pipe.

I have two circles of stainless mesh that I bought off an AHB user way back. My next attempt will be to do exactly what legless has suggested. Punch a hole in the middle of the mesh and bolt the mesh to the malt pipe. I'll have to get a circle of stainless steel to hold the mesh down at all points.

Yob, I wonder if I have the record for longest AHB build to never actually produce beer yet. 1st July 2012 was my first post, although I was able to do 5 or 6 BIABs whilst doing some software work. Although there was that guy who was going to 3D print his system though. Whatever happened to that??? he he


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## angus_grant (20/2/14)

I have also wondered about the gap on my grain mill as it was set for BIAB and perhaps too fine a crush. I got fairly good efficiency (75%) without really trying too hard for numbers with BIAB so would like to keep the gap the same.

I think that will be a last resort.


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## wide eyed and legless (20/2/14)

I could see the inlet outlet of the vessel, you could cut out the silicone to suit, alternatively check out eBay for silicone pressure cooker seals they are cheap and may have a size that will suit keeping in mind that they will stretch a bit.


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## angus_grant (25/3/14)

Well I finally knuckled down and got some solid work done on the malt pipe. I think I have a very good solution to the bottom filter and the bottom seal. I will be doing a grain test later this week to see if I have solved the problem of grain blowback during pump rests or withdrawing the malt pipe.
Read on for the photos and descriptions of the assembly.





Feeding the mounting bolts through the silicon tube which is the bottom seal.

Edit: thought I might have to explain this more. So I have drilled some holes in the tubing. I then put the bolt and washer in the tube and used left over 12mm threaded rod to force the bolt through to near the hole. I then "bent" the tubing over so the bolt was forced to pop out of the drilled hole. Straighten it up and voila: only 6 holes in the tubing and with the internal washer should provide a good seal to the malt pipe.





I drilled 6 holes through the silicon tube for the bolts to feed through up through the Big W pot and then through the mesh. The whole assembly then bolts together as the seal and bottom filter assembly
All the bolts fed trough the silicon tubing and sticking out ready for feeding through the Big W pot.





Bottom of the Big W pot with the holes drilled for the mounting bolts plus the thousands of little holes for recirculating water flow. I am hoping between the holes in the malt pipe and the fairly tight weave of the stainless mesh, it should force the liquid in a fairly even flow through the malt pipe and not just channel straight up from the skin fitting.





Bolts fed through the Big W pot and through the stainless mesh filter. Hopefully I won't need to manufacture a stainless metal ring to clamp down on the mesh to seal it.

As long as the mesh is strong enough to withstand the flow upwards during mashing it should be good.





Nuts on the mounting bolts. Once I have done a grain test I will cut these bolts down to be a lot shorter and not protrude so much





Bottom seal mounted to the malt pipe. I have already tested sealing of this tube setup so am confident of how it is going to perform.





Stainless hanging points for lifting the malt pipe out when finished mashing.

I am still yet to work out how to hang the malt pipe above the main pot to drain mash liquid out and also drain the sparge water.

So now that the malt pipe is coming to a conclusion (hopefully) I can start working on the extended malt pipe tube for higher gravity beers. I think I'll have a max grain bill of about 6kgs and that would be pushing the system. It might be time to save up a bit of money and get a malt pipe custom-built for the higher gravity beers. I do enjoy big Imperial stouts, IPAs, Belgians, etc. And I think it is too close to system limitations with min water levels, etc to brew smaller batches with the higher grain bills required.

But first things first: I need to start knocking out some AG beers. The kits just aren't doing it for me. The saison I have been making is quite nice but there is just a depth of flavour or something missing. I suppose I could always rewire what will be my HLT and do some extract brews if I have to fix some more major problems with the malt pipe.


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## angus_grant (25/3/14)

I just remembered I still have about 4 hours software work to do. Better nail that out this week if I am to do a test run this Sunday.

'er indoors permitting of course...

oh, and do some research on sparging. I have only done full-volume BIAB so far.


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## lukiferj (26/3/14)

Looks good man. Let us know how you go on the weekend. Keen to see this bad boy in action.


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## angus_grant (26/3/14)

You and me both!!!

I don't actually need to get the software done by this weekend. Just means the process will be a little more automated (pump breaks, etc) and I can pretty up the interface a little (my glaring weakness is UI design)


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## angus_grant (31/3/14)

Well the weekend has come and gone and I didn't do the maiden brew. Spent Saturday morning grabbing my 2 KK stainless growlers which are freaking awesome.... :icon_drool2:
Sunday was spent tidying up the shed and getting things organised.

Did manage to get the grain test done Saturday night and things look a lot better. Bit of flour in the bottom and a few bits of grain. The hole I poked in my voile filter for the threaded rod is expanding so I need to get it hemmed. Looks like things are ready for a test brew. Am toying with the idea of a "school night" APA, but will probably wait until Friday night and do a normal brew. Will set it all up in the morning and set my timer to automatically start heating up to mash temps at 5PM so it is ready to go when I get home. Mash in, get the boy bathed and fed and into bed. Then onto mash-out and the boil. Hopefully finish up around 9:30 or so. If that is achievable, then I could get away with week day brewing.





A shot of the bottom of the main pot once I pulled out the inner pot. I'll run with the mill gap I have currently although it is set for BIAB. Hopefully won't get a stuck sparge or too much crud left in the main pot after mash is complete.

I can always increase the gap a bit for the next run.


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## angus_grant (2/4/14)

Well planning on a maiden brew this Friday night. Will set auto-timer to start heating water at 5:30, so hopefully mash in at 6:15. This should see mash out at 7:20 or so when boy has gone to bed and we are on adult time. I'm hoping to have cubed and washed up by 9:30.

Done some reading on sparging, but still a bit hazy on it. Oh well, dive in!! I think I'll have 25L strike water and 12L sparge water at 94 degrees. Or that's what I've come up with tweaking numbers in the BrewMate brew day form.

Doing a "Smash the Cascade": a recipe I developed myself but am absolutely positive it is no way a unique recipe. Need to check the AA% of my pound of cascade at home, and adjust the g/L ratio to get me at around 35IBU. Am thinking about toasting some malt to add a bit more flavour, but then I am not sure if it still qualifies as a smash. 

*Smash the Cascade*(American Pale Ale)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.053 (°P): 13.1
Final Gravity (FG): 1.013 (°P): 3.3
Alcohol (ABV): 5.21 %
Colour (SRM): 5.1 (EBC): 10.0
Bitterness (IBU): 34.2 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)

100% 5.5kg BB Pilsener (pale malt)

1.1 g/L Cascade (7.8% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
0.4 g/L Cascade (7.8% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
0.5 g/L Cascade (7.8% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil)


Single step Infusion at 66°C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 20°C with Safale US-05


Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*


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## angus_grant (5/4/14)

Well I ended up doing a CItra smash tonight.

*Citra Smash* (American Pale Ale)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.053 (°P): 13.1
Final Gravity (FG): 1.013 (°P): 3.3
Alcohol (ABV): 5.21 %
Colour (SRM): 5.1 (EBC): 10.0
Bitterness (IBU): 40.6 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)

100% Pale Ale Malt

0.7 g/L Citra (13.5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
0.4 g/L Citra (13.5% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
0.4 g/L Citra (13.5% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil)


Single step Infusion at 66°C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 20°C with Safale US-05


Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*


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## angus_grant (5/4/14)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xos2MnVxe-c


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## angus_grant (5/4/14)

Well tonight saw the maiden batch of beer out of Brewton. A S.M.A.S.H (single malt and single hop) beer with Barret Burston Ale malt and Citra hops. Smash made me think straight away of "Hulk Smash!!!" straight away so we have a Hulk Citra. It was going to be Hulk Cascade but I realised they were at Anna's parents place and I had come Citra in the fridge so used it instead.

Everything went very well. I had to improvise the sparging a little bit as I hadn't really worked out a proper pot rest, but Grant (zapper on this forum) had come over to grab 2 spare pot lids and helped me arrange things.

I ended up with about 24L of 1060 wort. Calculates out to 79% brewhouse efficiency according to the numbers from BrewMate. I'm quite happy with that. Up 9% from my BIAB efforts. If it is repeatable then I'll be happy for a while with those numbers. Not quite ready to chase efficiency gains down the rabbit warren yet...






Mashing setup.
I've got a towel on top to help trap in some heat. My PID code worked really well, although I might have to make some adjustments to the code when mashing out as the higher the temp gets, the bigger the gap between target and actual temp. 





Recirculation during mash just started. You can see that it is very cloudy and barely able to see the top filter plate. 





It's getting a little bit clearer now
It's getting a little bit clearer now
It's getting a little bit clearer now

Man that wort is clear. Beautiful!!





Extremely ghetto malt pipe stand. I had forgotten about this aspect and thought of something on the fly whilst mashing. 





Citra in my hop sock.
Man, Citra smells good!!!!





Malt pipe after sparging. It was a bit of a tight fit with 5.5kgs in the malt pipe but I reckon I could fit some more grain in there. Maybe another 400gms or so. I think 6kgs would be pushing the friendship.





10gms Citra cube hop
yum yum.
I'll probably keg hop this as well.
ha ha....





The workstation.
Someone on AHB suggested it looked like R2 D2 and I think he is right. Maybe I should go for a name change????





24 litres of Hulk Citra!
Angus smash!! (when it is kegged and carbed....


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## lael (5/4/14)

Congratulations! Must be satisfying to brew on it!


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## Dan Pratt (5/4/14)

Week done, you made your rig and brewed your beer. You must be stoked. I'm glad you changed it from pilsner and cascade to ale malt and citra, make sure you dry hop it too.


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## angus_grant (5/4/14)

Yeh, I'm sure everyone knows how satisfying it it when you plan and build something for 2 years. Already have a list of things to fix and upgrade. 

Top voile filter is very thin and already has some splits in it. Might try and scrounge some more stainless mesh from somewhere.


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## angus_grant (5/4/14)

The spare piece of mesh I have is slightly too small to cover the holes in the top filter plate. Was good to do the sparge on though. Distributed the water quite nicely. 

Last runnings off the sparge were 1025. What's the recommended min gravity runnings?

Yeh, I got confused between the malts. I think cause it's bb ale malt and bb pale ale malt (it's not actually called pilsener malt). I do loooove citra keg hop.


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## Dan Pratt (5/4/14)

When my sparge is finished I tend to get about 200mls into a tub that it rest on while the boils gets going, that is usually about the 1020 range +\- 5 gravity point from brew to brew. Make me wonder how much more sugar I could get from it but I have my preboil target volume and gravity made.


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## angus_grant (5/4/14)

Yep, same Pratty. I calculated my sparge to end up with required pre-boil volume. 

I didn't get much more liquid out of the pipe after setting it aside and didn't think to test it. But last bit of runnings coming out of pipe when resting on main pot was 1025 so probably a bit more sugar to extract. I'd like to increase my end-ferment volume so I can do some bottles to set aside as gifts for friends. So maybe increase my sparging to extract to 1015 and see what volume I end up with. 

Would then need to do on the fly hop calculations to account for changed batch volume. Or just chuck some in and wing it. Ha ha.


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## angus_grant (7/4/14)

he he, started ferment last night and I think I have set myself up for a cleanup. I only worked out last night that I had used a 25L cube so in fact had about 26L or wort.

Put it all my 25L fermenter so I have about 4 cms head-space for my US-05 ferment. 25L of wort at 1060 seems a bit higher than 79% to me when my batch volume was set to 23L.

Oh well, I've been meaning to buy a new 30L water barrel (Bunnings, SuperCheap, etc) for fermenting in. The one I currently use has a lip just above the tap so some yeast sits there and gets drawn into the filter I use. Just need to make sure it fits into my little bar fridge.


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## angus_grant (7/4/14)

Code orange, i repeat code orange. 
Krau-splosion imminent.




This is only 24 hours after pitching


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## angus_grant (8/7/14)

So I guess I haven't done an update to this thread in a while. I ended up getting the largest stainless steel fry pan splatter guard I could find to replace the voile filter. The guard is not quite large enough to sit over my malt pipe, but seems to have held properly through another 3 brews.

I ended up giving my PID system a thorough workout with the dunkel weizen I brewed for the QLD case swap. 5 different temps in the step mashing, and the beer worked out better than I had any right to expect for my first DW. After talking to Parks and a couple of other guys I am going to extend the 72 rest to 15 minutes to add a bit more body in. If that doesn't improve things I will have to add in a 67 or 68 degree rest in the mash schedule.

So my next task is to programme in mash schedules as I manually set the temps and manually timed the rests for the DW. Tedious when I know I can programme this stuff in and get software to do it. Just to find time with a 2 year old and a 2 month old... Oh, and knock out a robust porter and a heffeweizen for winter. I don't really subscribe to brewing certain beers for certain seasons.


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## Pirate323i (14/7/14)

I love your final design of the bottom filter/seal. 
What sort and size of bolts did you use? Hex head or Philips pan/csk head? I am thinking of doing the same but cutting slots in the pot instead of 35 million holes...
Your setup is really looking great!


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## angus_grant (14/7/14)

Honestly can't remember what type the bolts were. I would assume stainless Phillips head. I don't really need to crank down on the nuts for the bolts coming through from the seal. It is more just to get the stainless mesh to form a good seal against the bottom of the malt pipe to prevent grain escaping during pump rest.

Qld Kev has cut up a Big W pot (or at least some smaller pot) in the manner you are talking about. You could go through his posts and find it. I think he put photos up in the mammoth braumiser thread.


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## LiquidCurrency (23/7/14)

angus_grant said:


> Code orange, i repeat code orange.
> Krau-splosion imminent.
> 
> 
> ...


What's happening here angus?


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## angus_grant (23/7/14)

Some yeasts require a lot more headspace (empty space above your wort) because they form a massive krausen (foamy stuff above wort) during active fermentation.

Apparently Wyeast 3068 is one of those yeasts. It actually ended up puking out the glad wrap for a good 18 hours or so. Required a bit of clean-up and some sanitisation on the outside of the fermentor and inside my fridge.

Oh, and in answer to Pirate: I used stainless steel M4 bolts from Bunnings.


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## Pirate323i (23/7/14)

Cheers!


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## matt211181 (20/8/14)

Thanks for the great info here Angus - I love your method of doing away with a separate bottom filter plate and just drilling holes in the inner pot's base......and the sealing of the malt pipe to the main kettle base is genius! 

Just a couple of questions regarding your top filter plate. I think you're using a Whitworth's Veggie tray? (https://www.whitworths.com.au/main_itemdetail.asp?item=3175&search123=tray&intAbsolutePage=1) 

Do you find that the tray bends at all when pumping? How thick would the tray be? It also looks like you don't have a separate cross-bar or anything bracing the tray or to pull down on the malt pipe? Are you just screwing a wingnut down on the central rod and this pushes the tray down onto the top edges of the malt pipe, and this seals the base and the top filter?

Great build!

Cheers
Matt


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## angus_grant (20/8/14)

Yep, just using a SS fry pan splatter guard and whitworths veggie pan as top filter assembly. 

No bracing or cross bar required. The splatter guard has never looked liked bending. I have a chugger and have run it full tilt with grain bill. I would guess 2mm or maybe 3mm. 

Just a SS wing nut on the threaded rod clamping down on malt pipe sealing top and bottom


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## matt211181 (20/8/14)

Awesome. Too easy!


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## angus_grant (20/11/14)

Well the single veggie tray has started bending. I have since got another veggie tray and sandwiched the mesh from a fry pan splatter guard between the two as the top filter. An idea I pilfered from xredwood's brau-build.

This works really well but I think I may have to invest in a metal plate or something to lock the malt pipe down as the trays are bending. Probably more to do with clamping force than upwards pressure from the pump. I cut up some silicon tube last batch to help seal so hopefully this will seal better and require less clamping pressure.

I also confirmed that my system will not do 6.3kgs of grain in the malt pipe. Wort foutains, stuck recirculation, blowing my bottom pipe seal 3 times, etc, etc. Back to 5.75kg max grist until I get my extended malt pipe working.

Work also continues on the mashing software to automatically read temps from the beer.xml mash schedule. This is probably 4-5 hours away from done. It's very hard to wrangle 4-5 hours away from family time. I'd love to have it done by Xmas but the Xmas break should give me enough free time to really knock it out..


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## sgtpinky (21/11/14)

I just want to reply to this bit for other people reading this thread. An alternative approach if you want to use a spare laptop is to use an Arduino (or whatever), which is just a USB serial COM device, and then send/receive data to/from the Arduino with any software you like (Python, Java, .NET, C++,...) using a standard serial library.

It does work pretty well in managed languages like Java and .NET because you can quickly knock up a decent GUI in Swing using Netbeans or Eclipse, for example. It gives you the ultimate flexibility because you can have more complex programs, display temperatures as analog meters, whatever you want once you have the data.



angus_grant said:


> There are people who are running brewery system using the Netduino (and Arduino) so the horsepower is there. It was more the hoops I was having to jump through to get temp reading (using beta firmware to get 1-pin working) working, and then an LCD display working, and then I would have had to run a network cable to brewery system to have uploads to database. Or try getting a wireless network card working. So solving problems instead of moving forward.


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## angus_grant (9/6/15)

man, long time between updates.

I've now brewed 22 batches on Brewton including some high gravity Belgians, low gravity mid's and a bunch of IPAs, pale ales, and porters.

I've broken the whole system down to give everything a really good clean and it was looking fairly clean.

I've installed a longer threaded rod in preparation for a larger malt pipe for higher gravity brews. Am going to troll a few cheap kitchen shops for large pot so I can convert it to a malt pipe. Am going to look at getting a washer and nut welded to the threaded rod to improve this part of the install. It's the only bit which I don't particularly like. Has a habit of leaking a bit if the rod gets moved too much. I would prefer to use a big silicon seal captured under a nut which would do away with the need for plumbers tape.

On the software side, I am finally making the changes required to do automated step-mashing reading straight from the beer.xml file exported from Beersmith. This should allow fairly easy school night brewing. I can set the software to ramp up to mash temp so by the time I get home from work I throw the grain in. I can then comfortably get the kids fed and in bed, feed myself and it should then be mash-out time.

Also looking at adding in a small web-server component so I can review mash steps and temps remotely.

I've also built myself a new prototype brewstand (out of non-structural pine at the moment-he he) so this should improve clean-up procedures and make that a little quicker. Which is the most annoying bit of all-grain brewing, let's be honest.

On an unrelated topic, just bought myself a freezer so there will be a keezer project starting as well. Looking at 5-tap coffin setup, with space for a 6th keg carbonating and hump space for CO2 and some bottles.


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## angus_grant (13/6/15)

Photo of the prototype brew stand. Made from cheap non-structural pine just to nut out my design. Once I've done a few brews on it and sort the design out I'll make it out of something nicer. 

Four swivelling castors aide moving the stand around. 
3 layers of cork tiles hopefully provide some insulation for the base. 
Holes in the stand for skin fittings to poke down through and tubes from pump to connect to cam-locks on skin fittings. 

Now for a leak test seeing as I've put everything back together. Hopefully a brew tomorrow arvo/night to test software changes and new stand.


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## darren996 (30/1/16)

Great thread Angus, your work on brewton has helped me with my single vessel system. Keep up the good work.


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## angus_grant (30/1/16)

Thanks for the feedback Darren.

Huh, I have not updated this thread in ages.

Raised the brew stand to provide more gravity when filling cubes. I found that it stalled when cube was about 70% full. Seems to have fixed the problem now. Am looking at rebuilding the top part to be on hinges so I can tip the top platform and easily drain the system. At the moment I am tilting the whole brew stand which is quite heavy. Due to the location of my heating element I don't think a pick-up tube will fit in.

I have added a web-server component to my brew software so I can remotely monitor the progress, and this has been a real benefit. Can hang out in the house looking after kids or helping out and still have a brew running at the same time. One of the best features I have added. Or even monitor strike water temp from work when I have set an auto-timer for 5PM to I am ready to mash in when I get home. Sweet feature.

I am part-way through coding up automatic stepped mash controls as defined in the BeerSmith recipe. This will automatically step between the mash steps and will fully automate the mashing process.

I can then move on to the boil side of the process. I am currently still using my iPhone for timers which is a bit cumbersome. and obviously not automated.

Finally solved an interface bug that has been fairly hard to find. I am using a background thread to fire the element during the PID phase of heating. I had a line of code in an obscure function that was only called very intermittently. This code updated the user interface from the background thread which is a no-no unless done in the correct way. I was not doing it in the correct way. 

Last 2 brews have been flawless with regards to temp control so think I have solved that problem.

Did a robust porter last night and hit all numbers and volumes so think I have my BeerSmith profile dialled in.

Will add a screenshot below of the website from my iPhone.


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## angus_grant (30/1/16)




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## darren996 (30/1/16)

I am using the ardbir for control. It is a great piece of kit, but I would really like remote monitoring, and being able to montor temps is a great feature. Would you consider a two way ball valve on the outlet of your pump. You could switch from recirc when filling your cubes


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## angus_grant (30/1/16)

Have you been reading my project plans Darren? h34r: 

I got a counter-flow chiller from a mate and am going to plumb in a 3-way ball valve on pump outlet to flow up through malt pipe during mashing, and through chiller and into whirlpool outlet in main pot during chilling.

Do 3-way ball valves allow flow control as well? Currently my ball valve allows choking down pump flow during start of recirc to allow grains to get thoroughly wet and then I open the flow up 10 minutes into mash cycle


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## darren996 (30/1/16)

The ardbir does step mashing, this is one of the main reasons I got it. It will be a great feature on your system. I have noticed a great improvement in body and mouthfell in my weissbiers. Happy brewing


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## angus_grant (30/1/16)

I've been doing manual step mashing with my system. Great improvement to my beers 

I'm coding up my software to read the mash schedule straight from the beer.xml file and then run through it automatically.


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## darren996 (30/1/16)

I dont have one on my syatem but yes, 3 way ballvalve have flow control, but check before purchasing.
have a look at the q&a section on this linkhttp://www.homebrewing.org/3-Way-Stainless-Steel-12-Ball-Valve-_p_2765.html


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## darren996 (30/1/16)

angus_grant said:


> I've been doing manual step mashing with my system. Great improvement to my beers
> 
> I'm coding up my software to read the mash schedule straight from the beer.xml file and then run through it automatically.


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## darren996 (30/1/16)

angus_grant said:


> I've been doing manual step mashing with my system. Great improvement to my beers
> 
> I'm coding up my software to read the mash schedule straight from the beer.xml file and then run through it automatically.


The advantages of doing it yourself rather than purchasing a control unit


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## angus_grant (3/3/16)

First trial brew tomorrow night using automated step mash controls. Have run a few trials and all seems to be working OK.

Another run of my "menthol pale ale". Slightly smoked...


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