# Briess Sorghum Malt



## grantsglutenfreehomebrew

Hi all.

I've just brought a 6kg tub of Briess Sorghum Malt from Grain and Grape in Yarraville. Great store by the way. Does anyone know where to get it in Australia in bulk orders. I email Briess in USA and they just ignore my emails.

Grant


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## kelbygreen

extract or grain?? never heard of sorghum. Sounds like you mean liquid but it only comes in 1.5kg well according to the site you can buy bulk dried malt for $185 - 22.65kg


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## Liam_snorkel

Bulk sorghum syrup?
http://www.brewerschoice.com.au/online-sho...rup-2875kg.html


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## amiddler

grantsglutenfreehomebrew said:


> Hi all.
> 
> I've just brought a 6kg tub of Briess Sorghum Malt from Grain and Grape in Yarraville. Great store by the way. Does anyone know where to get it in Australia in bulk orders. I email Briess in USA and they just ignore my emails.
> 
> Grant



As Liam posted Brewers Choice does 28.75Kg for $360 or $12.52/Kg.
Looks like it will be cheaper to stick with G&G, 6Kg for $49.50 or $8.25/Kg.

Drew


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## kymba

can you get a bag from your local rural supply store and mash it?

millet man & TB have some pretty informative posts

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=33936

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=11096


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## [email protected]

You can buy raw sorghum grain, but you will need to malt it first. Millet man has some good info on malting your own GF grains and seeds. Personally I think it's worth going to the effort, but malt syrup is a whole lot easier.

Another option would be to use some GF rice syrup and other sugary things to reduce the quantity of sorghum malt required. 

Jay


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## Jazzafish

Hi, I have had experience brewing with sorghum but the grain was sourced by others. If grain and Grape have some they could surely organise more for you, but they are likely getting it through a wholesaler like Bintani?

Now I am a little off topic here but some important advise:

Use Rice Hulls! it turns to concrete in the mash tun. BIAB is also an advantage here.
Conversion temperatures are different to standard wheat/barley. Google "saccharification of sorghum" for more info.
Will not be as modified as popular malts, so stepped mashes an advantage.
Try home roasting some/making your own sorghum crystal malts for variety and flavour. Here is how


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## grantsglutenfreehomebrew

Cheers all. Thanks for the great advice.


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## Millet Man

Sounds like G&G will be best value, 6kg will do a few brews for you. On a pedantic note, it's sorghum extract and not malt - it's made from raw grain.

Cheers, Andrew.



grantsglutenfreehomebrew said:


> Hi all.
> 
> I've just brought a 6kg tub of Briess Sorghum Malt from Grain and Grape in Yarraville. Great store by the way. Does anyone know where to get it in Australia in bulk orders. I email Briess in USA and they just ignore my emails.
> 
> Grant


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## grantsglutenfreehomebrew

Millet Man said:


> Sounds like G&G will be best value, 6kg will do a few brews for you. On a pedantic note, it's sorghum extract and not malt - it's made from raw grain.
> 
> Cheers, Andrew.
> 
> 
> Correct you are. While I've got your ears (or should I say eyes) I'd just like to say thank you for giving us coeliacs beer. My favourite is your pale ale. Two questions for you if you don't mind.
> 
> 1. When are we going to see a stout? I've had a G/F stout in England (Greens) and it was lovely. A nice Irish stout if I can place an order (lol).
> 
> 2. I have been malting millet and buckwheat myself for my experimental brews but I am finding it hard to get millet. Do you know if the stuff from pet stores ok to use?
> 
> Cheers and keep up the great work.
> 
> Grant


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

I love CB, but I'm trying to figure out why they are charging double the amount per kg for sorghum malt, compared to G&G.

I'd also like to know if the sorghum extract on ESB is red sorghum or the same as G&G.

Goomba


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## Ross

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> I love CB, but I'm trying to figure out why they are charging double the amount per kg for sorghum malt, compared to G&G.
> 
> I'd also like to know if the sorghum extract on ESB is red sorghum or the same as G&G.
> 
> Goomba




Goomba, 

Thanks for pointing out the pricing error, it has been corrected. I believe we are the cheapest.

Cheers Ross


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## spaced

Ross said:


> Goomba,
> 
> Thanks for pointing out the pricing error, it has been corrected. I believe we are the cheapest.
> 
> Cheers Ross



Awesome, expect orders to ramp up Ross.


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## keifer33

Indeed will be placing an order shortly to do a brew for my missus who has just found out she cant really have gluten.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

Got a mate who can't have gluten.

Expect an order from me soon.

Goomba


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## Aus_Rider_22

I to noticed the cber update.

I have an uncle who is a coeliac. He only drinks wines now so I am trying to look at a recipe for him. 

I am thinking all sorghum LME and Nelson hops. What yeast would you guys recommend? 

Cheers!


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## spaced

Aus_Rider_22 said:


> I to noticed the cber update.
> 
> I have an uncle who is a coeliac. He only drinks wines now so I am trying to look at a recipe for him.
> 
> I am thinking all sorghum LME and Nelson hops. What yeast would you guys recommend?
> 
> Cheers!




Had a good run with US-05, it's an american ale yeast. Don't know what Nelson hops are like but it's a good all around yeast.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

I love Nelson but take a "Less is More" approach to it.

I tend to avoid using it at 60 minutes as well, as I find it a bit harsh. There are other high AA% hops that do the job well.

Goomba


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## scott_penno

Aus_Rider_22 said:


> I am thinking all sorghum LME and Nelson hops. What yeast would you guys recommend?



I made a wheat beer inspired beer with sorghum, a small amount of golden syrup, some hallertauer for bittering and flavor and then used WB06. Was the best of a handful of GF beers I've tried making.

sap.


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## Millet Man

Thanks Grant,

Try the Natural Light if you can get your hands on it, only 2.7% ABV but has a really nice flavour (brewing up a fresh batch right now). You should be able to get it at liquorland or they'll order it in.

I will be looking at doing some seasonal brews (400 case batches) and a stout is certainly on the cards but probably the first will be an IPA :icon_cheers: 

Millet from a pet store will be fine, as it is mostly used for stock feed but is food grade also. Get the french white variety.

Cheers, Andrew.



grantsglutenfreehomebrew said:


> Correct you are. While I've got your ears (or should I say eyes) I'd just like to say thank you for giving us coeliacs beer. My favourite is your pale ale. Two questions for you if you don't mind.
> 
> 1. When are we going to see a stout? I've had a G/F stout in England (Greens) and it was lovely. A nice Irish stout if I can place an order (lol).
> 
> 2. I have been malting millet and buckwheat myself for my experimental brews but I am finding it hard to get millet. Do you know if the stuff from pet stores ok to use?
> 
> Cheers and keep up the great work.
> 
> Grant


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## grantsglutenfreehomebrew

Thanks Andrew. I'll check it out. MY local G/F store in Werribee stocks it.

For the other guys asking about yeast I use S-23 for my honey beer and S-04 for the brown ale. It's definitley G/F. Are the other yeasts mentioned G/F?


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## spaced

grantsglutenfreehomebrew said:


> Thanks Andrew. I'll check it out. MY local G/F store in Werribee stocks it.
> 
> For the other guys asking about yeast I use S-23 for my honey beer and S-04 for the brown ale. It's definitley G/F. Are the other yeasts mentioned G/F?




All fermentis dry yeasts are. Also Danstar are supposed to be as well.

No liquid yeasts that I'm aware of. Wyeast made one and then canned it.

From what I've read, you can take yeast, feed it on a gluten free diet and it will cut the gluten level to acceptable levels. Would be great to propogate some of the different belgian yeasts.


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## humulus

Its probably already been asked,my best mate can not go anywhere near gluten
Does anyone have a recipe for gluten free beer im after 9l 
as for the yeast is s-23 good to use
any help would be appreciated i want to get it brewed for his birthday in a months time
cheers humulus


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## wynnum1

Is there gst on Briess Sorghum Malt


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## spaced

humulus said:


> Its probably already been asked,my best mate can not go anywhere near gluten
> Does anyone have a recipe for gluten free beer im after 9l
> as for the yeast is s-23 good to use
> any help would be appreciated i want to get it brewed for his birthday in a months time
> cheers humulus




What sort of beer does your friend like. I'm a Celiac and sensitive to gluten. I don't have any trouble with Sorghum malt or Fermentis yeast. No experience with S-23 but I doubt you'll have a problem.


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## grantsglutenfreehomebrew

spaced said:


> What sort of beer does your friend like. I'm a Celiac and sensitive to gluten. I don't have any trouble with Sorghum malt or Fermentis yeast. No experience with S-23 but I doubt you'll have a problem.



All Saflager dried yeasts are propogated on molasses and from the maker themselves are gluten free. I use S-23 with my honey fusion ale and s-04 on my brown ale.

Hey 'spaced' I read your blog the other day. I hope the brewing is going well. I'm going to try and brew a sorghum syrup ale hopefully this weekend. My first one. I'd love for you to check out my webpage www.grantsglutenfreehomebrew.webs.com it might give you some ideas. Then again it might not.

I've just cracked my second attempt at a belgium whitbeer. The recipe is up on the page (i think). I've just been using honey as a substitute for liquid pale malt extract. Has worked for me for a while. 
I've also just made an attempt at a bohemian style pilsner. To get a good grain flavour I've added 300g of hulled millet grains to the hop bag with the dry hops. It also seems to be working. If it does the recipe will end up on my webpage.

Good brewing.


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## spaced

Hey Grant,

I can see the old recipe here

http://grantsglutenfreehomebrew.webs.com/b...itbierstyle.htm

Can't see the new one with Sorghum Syrup. Where do you source your corn based maltodextrine from?


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## grantsglutenfreehomebrew

spaced said:


> Hey Grant,
> 
> I can see the old recipe here
> 
> http://grantsglutenfreehomebrew.webs.com/b...itbierstyle.htm
> 
> Can't see the new one with Sorghum Syrup. Where do you source your corn based maltodextrine from?



Sorry mate. The witbeer style is honey based not sorghum syrup based. I just did my sorghum syrup based beer. I was surprised how malty the syrup tasted. I wrote the recipe down so if it tastes good and turns out like an ESB I'll put it up on the site.

The corn based maltodextrin can be bought from Soy Products in Bayswater, Vic. They make the FG Roberts brand of G/F goodies. The ph # is 03 97291099. It cost about $1.40 something a kilo. I buy it in 10kg boxes. Costs about $22 including shipping to Geelong. They're very helpful and all their products are G/F.

If you use it you'll need to know a few things. It is only about 30% fermentable. It also does exagerate the flavours and sweetness but not alot. On a 20 litre batch 1 kg will ferment out at 1.014. 2kg at around 1.032 SG. It gives great body to a beer. The head on my brown ale lasts the whole pint. The belgium lace (froth) will still be there the next day in the glass.

I hope this is of some help.

Grant


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## [email protected]

I know this a bit off topic, but it is sort of where this thread has gone.

I understand GF standards are different in Oz, but thought it might be worth pointing out that all Maltodextrin and for that matter glucose is by its very nature of manufacture are gluten free irrespective of source. Here is a link that might be of some use http://www.coeliac.org.uk/healthcare-profe...ergen-labelling. This is Europe wide, but it may be worth checking with your local food standards agency as many of these standards are adopted further afield.

At the end of the day you have to be happy with what you choose, but thought it might be worth a mention.

Jay


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## spaced

grantsglutenfreehomebrew said:


> Sorry mate. The witbeer style is honey based not sorghum syrup based. I just did my sorghum syrup based beer. I was surprised how malty the syrup tasted. I wrote the recipe down so if it tastes good and turns out like an ESB I'll put it up on the site.
> 
> The corn based maltodextrin can be bought from Soy Products in Bayswater, Vic. They make the FG Roberts brand of G/F goodies. The ph # is 03 97291099. It cost about $1.40 something a kilo. I buy it in 10kg boxes. Costs about $22 including shipping to Geelong. They're very helpful and all their products are G/F.
> 
> If you use it you'll need to know a few things. It is only about 30% fermentable. It also does exagerate the flavours and sweetness but not alot. On a 20 litre batch 1 kg will ferment out at 1.014. 2kg at around 1.032 SG. It gives great body to a beer. The head on my brown ale lasts the whole pint. The belgium lace (froth) will still be there the next day in the glass.
> 
> I hope this is of some help.
> 
> Grant



Cheers, I'll hit em up this week.


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## grantsglutenfreehomebrew

GFJ said:


> I know this a bit off topic, but it is sort of where this thread has gone.
> 
> I understand GF standards are different in Oz, but thought it might be worth pointing out that all Maltodextrin and for that matter glucose is by its very nature of manufacture are gluten free irrespective of source. Here is a link that might be of some use http://www.coeliac.org.uk/healthcare-profe...ergen-labelling. This is Europe wide, but it may be worth checking with your local food standards agency as many of these standards are adopted further afield.
> 
> At the end of the day you have to be happy with what you choose, but thought it might be worth a mention.
> 
> Jay




Hi Jay. Our standards in Oz are the same usually but I find that products made from wheat still effect me. Glucose Syrup is the same. Although I haven't been diagnosed with a wheat allergy only gluten. I still think I am allergic to wheat. Some distilled spirits effect me as well. They are gluten free apparently to.

Grant


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## MHB

Just a couple of points to toss into the mix: -
There are Two Briess Sorghum extracts available 45DE and 65DE (DE means Dextrose Equivalent, (loosely) a wort would attenuate 45% or 65% as much as a Dextrose wort with the same OG)
Australian rules are much stricter than either US or UK standards, under Australian rules Dextrose is fine, Maltodextrin isnt. Briess Sorghum syrup doesnt comply, but by the time you dilute and boil it, it dose
There are four cereal grain that you have to watch out for, the mnemonic is BROW (as in eye) Barley, Rye Oats and Wheat. If you suffer from Gluten intolerance (Celiac) you need to be careful of all of the best beer making grains.
And yes GST applies there is a clause that says any product intended for brewing, Sugar for cake making isnt, same sugar for brewing is. I dont write them just have to work with the sometimes very peculiar rules.

Well back to work, I have a the makings for 135 L of Gluten Free beer about to go through the centrifuge and the bloody thing has the wobbles have to pull it down and restack the cones, dam they are finely balanced but it does 28,000 RPM so I suppose thats a good thing
M


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## [email protected]

> Hi Jay. Our standards in Oz are the same usually
> but I find that products made from wheat still effect me. Glucose Syrup
> is the same. Although I haven't been diagnosed with a wheat allergy
> only gluten. I still think I am allergic to wheat. Some distilled
> spirits effect me as well. They are gluten free apparently to.
> 
> Grant



Hi Grant,

I perfectly understand, I was diagnosed 5 years ago with Coeliac disease. I have 3 immediate family members in Oz also with the condition. Because of the different healthcare systems there are large differences in the way the condition is treated. For example once diagnosed in the UK you are kept under constant supervision by a gastrointrologist and dietitian. Initially reviewed 6 monthly and once stable annually, full sets of bloods etc. You are also able to access 1000's of gluten free 'staples' on prescription via your GP. Sadly beer is not considered to be a 'staple'

Back to the issue of sensitivity. Before the tightening of the international CODEX gluten standard (last year I think) I wasn't able to tolerate many so called Gluten free products, esp. the ones with CODEX wheat starch. Since the change I've been fine. This could be down to the new standard, but could also be down to other factors such as there seems to be a biological memory for other compounds associated with the offending proteins.

One significant difference seems to be the level of funding for good scientific research into the condition, recent research over here as found that many people with coeliac disease benefit from up to 50grms of GF Oats a day. Whilst I find this a bit much for me, I now use up to 10% GF oats in some beers. I have not had a problem with this. I don't know if GF oats are available in Oz.

As I said before, it's entirely down to what works for you.



> There are Two Briess Sorghum extracts available 45DE and 65DE (DE means Dextrose Equivalent, (loosely) a wort would attenuate 45% or 65% as much as a Dextrose wort with the same OG)
> Australian rules are much stricter than either US or UK standards, under Australian rules Dextrose is fine, Maltodextrin isnt. Briess Sorghum syrup doesnt comply, but by the time you dilute and boil it, it dose
> There are four cereal grain that you have to watch out for, the mnemonic is BROW (as in eye) Barley, Rye Oats and Wheat. If you suffer from Gluten intolerance (Celiac) you need to be careful of all of the best beer making grains.



CODEX standard is a international standard. Labeling laws are local although the EU of which UK is part, have unified labeling laws. 'Strict' may well just equate to 'we haven't done the research yet so lets be conservative in our approach'. For example I don't understand why the 65DE doesn't comply if it is entirely comprised of Sorghum. 

Looking forward to having a go with this Briess stuff though, I might have to get some from the States though as it doesn't seem to be imported into the UK at the moment.

Hope you all had a good extra day off. Strangely no Queen's birthday here.

Cheers

Jay


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## spaced

grantsglutenfreehomebrew said:


> Hi Jay. Our standards in Oz are the same usually but I find that products made from wheat still effect me. Glucose Syrup is the same. Although I haven't been diagnosed with a wheat allergy only gluten. I still think I am allergic to wheat. Some distilled spirits effect me as well. They are gluten free apparently to.
> 
> Grant




I think I'm exactly the same way. Glucose from Wheat and some distilled spirits give me grief.



MHB said:


> Well back to work, I have a the makings for 135 L of Gluten Free beer about to go through the centrifuge and the bloody thing has the wobbles – have to pull it down and restack the cones, dam they are finely balanced but it does 28,000 RPM so I suppose that's a good thing
> M




Is that a commercial brew or just a private batch?


Also when I used to buy the syrup from brewers choice, it said on the tub "20ppm but will be 2ppm when brewed" or something to that effect.


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## MHB

All though the Sorghum is gluten free its grown in fields alongside other crops, inevitably there is some weed transfer, stray seeds from other crops that grow, get harvested and processed with the Sorghum. Same applies to all grain crops; Foreign Seeds is a stand part of any detailed malt spec, in this case they will contribute some undesirable protein.
When you make an extract from Sorghum (or any other grain) there will be some cross contamination and this is measured, as stated it may be 20 ppm in the concentrated extract, which exceeds the Australian requirement for Gluten Free, but diluted it is well under the acceptable level.



> Is that a commercial brew or just a private batch?


I make GF Wort packs, at present on a small scale just for local demand, when/if they are ready to go commercial I will post in an appropriate Retail thread, frankly they are a major PITA and I need to speed up the process and get much bigger batches on the go to even think of taking them national.
If you are here you are probably just a capable as I of boiling and bittering your own syrup, but there are a lot of people out there that arent set up nor interested in all that mucking about and are just looking for a dump and stir solution thats more the target market.
MHB


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## Millet Man

Australian Standard is no detectable gluten and I think the measuring equipment can measure to about 5 ppm. So if it's made from sorghum and gluten (from any cross contamination) can't be detected then it's considered gluten free.

Good to see you persevering with the wort packs Mark!

Cheers, Andrew.


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## spaced

MHB said:


> I make "GF" Wort packs, at present on a small scale just for local demand, when/if they are ready to go commercial I will post in an appropriate Retail thread, frankly they are a major PITA and I need to speed up the process and get much bigger batches on the go to even think of taking them national.
> If you are here you are probably just a capable as I of boiling and bittering your own syrup, but there are a lot of people out there that aren't set up nor interested in all that mucking about and are just looking for a dump and stir solution that's more the target market.
> MHB




Good luck with it. Had that option been around when I was starting out I would have jumped on it. Having done the gluten fresh wort kits through Ross, I can appreciate just how easy the process is for the home user.


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## grantsglutenfreehomebrew

GFJ said:


> Hi Grant,
> 
> I perfectly understand, I was diagnosed 5 years ago with Coeliac disease. I have 3 immediate family members in Oz also with the condition. Because of the different healthcare systems there are large differences in the way the condition is treated. For example once diagnosed in the UK you are kept under constant supervision by a gastrointrologist and dietitian. Initially reviewed 6 monthly and once stable annually, full sets of bloods etc. You are also able to access 1000's of gluten free 'staples' on prescription via your GP. Sadly beer is not considered to be a 'staple'
> 
> Back to the issue of sensitivity. Before the tightening of the international CODEX gluten standard (last year I think) I wasn't able to tolerate many so called Gluten free products, esp. the ones with CODEX wheat starch. Since the change I've been fine. This could be down to the new standard, but could also be down to other factors such as there seems to be a biological memory for other compounds associated with the offending proteins.
> 
> One significant difference seems to be the level of funding for good scientific research into the condition, recent research over here as found that many people with coeliac disease benefit from up to 50grms of GF Oats a day. Whilst I find this a bit much for me, I now use up to 10% GF oats in some beers. I have not had a problem with this. I don't know if GF oats are available in Oz.
> 
> As I said before, it's entirely down to what works for you.
> 
> 
> 
> CODEX standard is a international standard. Labeling laws are local although the EU of which UK is part, have unified labeling laws. 'Strict' may well just equate to 'we haven't done the research yet so lets be conservative in our approach'. For example I don't understand why the 65DE doesn't comply if it is entirely comprised of Sorghum.
> 
> Looking forward to having a go with this Briess stuff though, I might have to get some from the States though as it doesn't seem to be imported into the UK at the moment.
> 
> Hope you all had a good extra day off. Strangely no Queen's birthday here.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Jay




G'day Jay

Can't get G/F oats in Oz because of processing. The law in Oz states the processers don't have to isolate oats from other gluten containing grains from transport to processing. Heard this on radio the other day. The lady mentioning it happened to get her oats from America where they have to.


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## grantsglutenfreehomebrew

grantsglutenfreehomebrew said:


> G'day Jay
> 
> Can't get G/F oats in Oz because of processing. The law in Oz states the processers don't have to isolate oats from other gluten containing grains from transport to processing. Heard this on radio the other day. The lady mentioning it happened to get her oats from America where they have to.




Bythe way if anyone is interested I had a taste of the brew at 1.030. It tasted nice. It had a nice maltiness to it. I've already got the idea for a porter as well.

Grant


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## [email protected]

grantsglutenfreehomebrew said:


> G'day Jay
> 
> Can't get G/F oats in Oz because of processing. The law in Oz states the processers don't have to isolate oats from other gluten containing grains from transport to processing. Heard this on radio the other day. The lady mentioning it happened to get her oats from America where they have to.



Hi Grant,

It use to be the case here as well, but since the demand for GF oats was created there are now a few suppliers that have managed to overcome the crosscontamination and supply change issues. As in Australia they undergo testing to ensure they comply. 

My local supermarket stocks two brands of GF oats in the 'free from' section. One is packed in holland the other comes in from the US. I'll have a look when I get a minute and see if you can get them online. I would be happy to send some over if you want to give them a whirl. Should be alright to send as they are processed food product, but it might be worth checking anyway. 

Most oats in the UK are not GF. 

I noticed that most research in Australia seems to be focused on finding a cure for coeliac disease rather than focussing on managing the condition for existing patients. 

Jay


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## [email protected]

grantsglutenfreehomebrew said:


> Bythe way if anyone is interested I had a taste of the brew at 1.030. It tasted nice. It had a nice maltiness to it. I've already got the idea for a porter as well.
> 
> Grant



What's the brew?

Also I emailed Briess about a week ago to ask if they had a distributor this side of the pond. Still no reply.


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## grantsglutenfreehomebrew

GFJ said:


> What's the brew?
> 
> Also I emailed Briess about a week ago to ask if they had a distributor this side of the pond. Still no reply.



Here's the recipe.

Bring 8 litres of water to the boil. Add 3kg of sorghum syrup and 50 grams of Fuggles hop pellets to the boil and let boil for 50 minutes. At the 30 minute mark add 1 teaspoon of Irish Moss. After 50 minutes add 25 grams of Fuggles hops and keep boiling for another 10 minutes (60 minute boil total).

Strain into fermenter and add enough cool water to make 20 litres. At about 26 degrees celcius I add S-04 yeast.

Starting Gravity of 1.050 at 26 degrees.


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## spaced

An english style ale has been on my to brew list (further down than ipas). Would like to hear back on what you think about your beer when it's done.


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## grantsglutenfreehomebrew

Hi all. Just cracked open my briess sorghum syrup beer today and have a few tasting notes.

For starters there is no body to the beer at all. The recipe is up here on the forum. I've tried for an ESB. More like a cross between a flat Fosters and a Pale Ale. I has a slight sparkle to it but not overly fizzy which is good. No head retention at all. Clarity is good and colour is golden amber. Would have prefered it a little darker. Bitterness is perfect for what I was looking for. Not overly bitter but I know I'm having a bitter style beer. Maltiness is nice. Definitely has that sorghum flavour to it.

Finished out at SG 1.010. 5.1% alc/vol approx.

In future I will add about 500g of maltodextrin for body and head retention. I reckon about 450g of brown sugar will help with bitterness and colour as well.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

Thanks for the reply.

That gives me a little more to work with, given that I'm about to (finally) in a week or so time (when I drag him down to the brew shop) brew my GI mate's beer.

I think I have some leftover maltodextrin from bittering.

Goomba


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## Thirsty Boy

grantsglutenfreehomebrew said:


> Hi all. Just cracked open my briess sorghum syrup beer today and have a few tasting notes.
> 
> For starters there is no body to the beer at all. The recipe is up here on the forum. I've tried for an ESB. More like a cross between a flat Fosters and a Pale Ale. I has a slight sparkle to it but not overly fizzy which is good. No head retention at all. Clarity is good and colour is golden amber. Would have prefered it a little darker. Bitterness is perfect for what I was looking for. Not overly bitter but I know I'm having a bitter style beer. Maltiness is nice. Definitely has that sorghum flavour to it.
> 
> Finished out at SG 1.010. 5.1% alc/vol approx.
> 
> In future I will add about 500g of maltodextrin for body and head retention. I reckon about 450g of brown sugar will help with bitterness and colour as well.



It will still be gluten free after adding maltodextrin? That stuff is usually made from a grain source and in australia that grain is usually going to be wheat.


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## spaced

Maltodextrine made from Wheat is supposedly gluten free. Although celiacs can still have reactions.

Grant put me onto Soy Products for tapioca based maltodextrine. Have used some in my latest brew, although it will be a couple of weeks before I know how it worked out.

Hoping to see the results of Grants test in the next month or so. 500g seems like a hell of a lot of maltodextrine but we'll see.

With regards to yeast, I've had good success with US-05, S-33 and WB-06, however I didn't like T-58. S-33 produced fantastic head retention at about a month in the bottle. Although body (or "mouthfeel") is a problem with my gluten free beers.


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## keifer33

Where did you source your tapioca maltodextrin from spaced?


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## Bizier

I have seen the following products mentioned about:
BriesSweet White Sorghum Syrup 45 DE High Maltose
BriesSweet White Sorghum Syrup 60 DE

Are there any other manufacturers of white sorghum syrup or is it basically Briess?
When HB retailers list white sorghum syrup, is it safe to assume that it is the 45 DE?

Aside, this is an interesting article, and it alludes to Belgian yeast not working well with GF brewing. I was thinking about an experimental Trappist style beer using proper isolated yeast.


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## spaced

keifer33 said:


> Where did you source your tapioca maltodextrin from spaced?




This is the place Grant put me onto.

http://www.soyproducts.com.au/aboutus.htm

I suggest buying in at least 10kg batches as the maltodextrine is $1.50 per KG and the Postage is approximately $11.




Bizier said:


> I have seen the following products mentioned about:
> BriesSweet White Sorghum Syrup 45 DE High Maltose
> BriesSweet White Sorghum Syrup 60 DE
> 
> Are there any other manufacturers of white sorghum syrup or is it basically Briess?
> When HB retailers list white sorghum syrup, is it safe to assume that it is the 45 DE?
> 
> Aside, this is an interesting article, and it alludes to Belgian yeast not working well with GF brewing. I was thinking about an experimental Trappist style beer using proper isolated yeast.



Sorry mate, can't help you there. Probably best to speak to Ross from Craft brewer, he's got the best price on it that I know of and he should be able to help.

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=4064

I'm not sold on the Belgian yeasts, well the only one that's gluten free I know of is T-58 and I've had bad experiences with that. People argue if S-33 is really a belgian style yeast, I've had good success with it in this recipe from DKershner http://brew.dkershner.com/2009/gluten-free-tripel-blonde/ N.B. I fill my fermentor for this recipe to 22L

Thanks for the link, it's a good little article.

Down the track I'd like to culture my own belgian and speciality yeasts, but don't have the time, space or knowledge yet.


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## keifer33

Cheers spaced ive dropped them an email..well attempted to with the contact us form wanting every detail bar what I had for breakfast


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## Bizier

spaced said:


> I'm not sold on the Belgian yeasts, well the only one that's gluten free I know of is T-58 and I've had bad experiences with that. People argue if S-33 is really a belgian style yeast, I've had good success with it in this recipe from DKershner http://brew.dkershner.com/2009/gluten-free-tripel-blonde/ N.B. I fill my fermentor for this recipe to 22L
> 
> ...
> 
> Down the track I'd like to culture my own belgian and speciality yeasts, but don't have the time, space or knowledge yet.



After a little reading, it seems Millet Man is an advocate of yeasts which put out more esters, e.g. Belgians.
My thoughts were that it seems like a good idea to use a recipe with a lot of adjuncts (e.g. dark candi syrup) and a funky yeast. I hate T-58, but would like to try with isolated 3787. If I were actually gluten intolerant, this would be a definite.

Gluten intolerant people should work towards a GF slant bank.


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## grantsglutenfreehomebrew

Hi all. Good to see the thread is still going.

I'm sorry I can't help anyone with Belgium style yeasts as I don't use them. But while I was experimenting with my brown ale I added two cups of caramellised sugar to the brew. After about a month of bottle conditioning it started to transform from an overly sweet beer to something that tasted similar to Grimbergen. I know Grimergen is still quite sweet but it was quite nice. It eventually peeted out and lost its sweetness after another month. I put this down to not puttting cirtic acid in with the sugar when caramellising it. This meant the yeast took longer to break down the sugars. I used S-04 as the yeast.

Just bought two kgs of G/F glucose powder. The web site says it's Gluten and wheat free but when I received the product it was another brand and it says it is packed in an area where wheat is also packed. Gonna give it a go. I've attached the link http://www.glutenfreeshop.com.au/Sweeteners-C15.aspx It's $6.30 a kg.

They also sell muscavado sugar and some other sweeteners. I've seen muscavado being used on brewmasters so it must be ok to brew with.

Catch ya's.

Grant


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## grantsglutenfreehomebrew

Hi all. Good to see the thread is still going.

I'm sorry I can't help anyone with Belgium style yeasts as I don't use them. But while I was experimenting with my brown ale I added two cups of caramellised sugar to the brew. After about a month of bottle conditioning it started to transform from an overly sweet beer to something that tasted similar to Grimbergen. I know Grimergen is still quite sweet but it was quite nice. It eventually peeted out and lost its sweetness after another month. I put this down to not puttting cirtic acid in with the sugar when caramellising it. This meant the yeast took longer to break down the sugars. I used S-04 as the yeast.

Just bought two kgs of G/F glucose powder. The web site says it's Gluten and wheat free but when I received the product it was another brand and it says it is packed in an area where wheat is also packed. Gonna give it a go. I've attached the link http://www.glutenfreeshop.com.au/Sweeteners-C15.aspx It's $6.30 a kg.

They also sell muscavado sugar and some other sweeteners. I've seen muscavado being used on brewmasters so it must be ok to brew with.

Catch ya's.

Grant


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## Millet Man

Bizier said:


> After a little reading, it seems Millet Man is an advocate of yeasts which put out more esters, e.g. Belgians.
> My thoughts were that it seems like a good idea to use a recipe with a lot of adjuncts (e.g. dark candi syrup) and a funky yeast. I hate T-58, but would like to try with isolated 3787. If I were actually gluten intolerant, this would be a definite.
> 
> Gluten intolerant people should work towards a GF slant bank.


The T-58 yeast works well as long as you have a nice caramel/malty grain profile to work with, only issue for me is that it doesn't attenuate anywhere near as well as the other dry GF yeasts. T-58 only gives me about 65% attenuation compared to 75-78% for S-04/US-05 and 82-83% for W34/70. Never tried T-58 in a pale beer either, only in a brown ale and strong dark spiced belgian which was absolutely delicious mmmm.....

Cheers, Andrew.


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## spaced

Millet Man said:


> The T-58 yeast works well as long as you have a nice caramel/malty grain profile to work with, only issue for me is that it doesn't attenuate anywhere near as well as the other dry GF yeasts. T-58 only gives me about 65% attenuation compared to 75-78% for S-04/US-05 and 82-83% for W34/70. Never tried T-58 in a pale beer either, only in a brown ale and strong dark spiced belgian which was absolutely delicious mmmm.....
> 
> Cheers, Andrew.



Were using it with Sorghum? I swear those two don't get along at all.




grantsglutenfreehomebrew said:


> Just bought two kgs of G/F glucose powder. The web site says it's Gluten and wheat free but when I received the product it was another brand and it says it is packed in an area where wheat is also packed. Gonna give it a go. I've attached the link http://www.glutenfreeshop.com.au/Sweeteners-C15.aspx It's $6.30 a kg.
> 
> Catch ya's.
> 
> Grant



What are you using the glucose powder in place of if you don't mind me asking?


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## Millet Man

spaced said:


> Were using it with Sorghum? I swear those two don't get along at all.



The brown ale is with a sorghum base - malted, not extract but has plenty of caramel/chocolate/coffee flavours too. The Belgian was 60/40 malted millet/sorghum extract as the base and plenty of crystal millet malt and candi sugar was delicious.

Cheers, Andrew.


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## spaced

Millet Man said:


> The brown ale is with a sorghum base - malted, not extract but has plenty of caramel/chocolate/coffee flavours too. The Belgian was 60/40 malted millet/sorghum extract as the base and plenty of crystal millet malt and candi sugar was delicious.
> 
> Cheers, Andrew.




Maybe that was the difference. First time I used rice malt and sorghum extract. The second time I've used only sorghum extract.

I used this recipe as the base for my last attempt with T-58

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f73/pink-eleph...s-clone-112957/

Can't say I'm a fan.


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## grantsglutenfreehomebrew

It's been abit longer now and I'm updating the sorghum syrup beer I've made. I shook the bottles up and placed them in the bar under a towel off the floor to see if the secondary carbonation would kick in abit more. It did. The beer has a better head retention and the carbonation makes it feel abit more like a proper beer. If I had to compare it to anything it has the same bitterness and feel of a melb or vic bitter. Same colour. Same mouthfeel. It's got a malt flavour but has that sorghum aftertaste. Not bad for a first go trial.

On the boil this morning is the rest of the pail of sorghum malt (should be 3kg but only turned out to be about 2kg, but we'll go into being duped later) and 1kg of honey. 23g each of Hallertau and Saaz hops for 40 mins. Then another 25 of Saaz plus 1 teaspoon of irish moss. 60 mins all up. Will use an S-04 yeast.

Grant


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## spaced

Yep, it definitely improves with time. A nice hop flavour can definitely mask the sorghum taste. Did you use maltodextrine in this one?

My third crack at the Belgian Blonde isn't as good I think because I used whirlfloc. Maybe the suspended S-33 the first time added some flavour. Will try a forth time but not for a while, have other beers planned at the moment.


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## grantsglutenfreehomebrew

No maltidextrin this time as the previous beers head retention got better and I'm looking for a lighter style ale with the honey in it.


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## spaced

I've done this one before

A bit of work required because you prime with pastuerised honey and sugar. A friend commented that it was similar to the honey wheats he tried in Germany, so maybe you could swap the US-05 for WB-06 (just an idea)?

*Stingless Honey Blonde Ale* 
Batch Size: 6 Gallons
Original Gravity: NA
Final Gravity: NA
IBU: 24.9
SRM: NA
ABV: NA
Boiling Time: 60 Minutes
Primary Fermentation: 14 days @ 68 degrees
Bottling: Carbonated with 0.5 cup of honey

Ingredients/Instructions:
6 lbs Sorghum Extract (prior to boil)
0.5 oz Magnum Hops (60 Min)
0.25 oz Saaz (15 Min)
1 Whirlflock Tablet (5 min)
0.25 oz Yeast Nutrient (5 min)
0.25 oz Saaz (flameout)
1 pkg Safale US05 Yeast

Brewing notes: Converted from metric measurements rounded/estimated

Recipe source: gfhomebrewing.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=45&Itemid=27


Link to when I did it.
http://gfhomebrewing.blogspot.com/2011_04_01_archive.html


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

Necro alert, hopefully the brewers in question are still around.

I want to do a Mark II on GF beer, but first an update for those who may want it (or not).

I brewed a GF beer with Sorghum extract (thank you craftbrewer), and a single 60 min addition of Willamette for a soft bitterness. Notto yeast, and it was drinkable.

But! It had this background flavour of burnt tyre. My mate who is Gluten Intolerant noticed it a little, and he was in his past life a TED drinker, so nothing glamorous. So I didn't brew anything akin to what I'd like to drink (something bombarded with C hops).

Fast forward almost a year. We went out for a quiet bevvy at Bitter Suite (excellent place), I had my usual types of beer (APA/IPA) and he Cider.

Gave him a smell of my third beer, which had Galaxy in it for certain, and likely a touch of cascade. He liked the smell of it and said that he really missed being able to drink beer. I told him, that if I was making a style like he smelled, then I could do a beer that would hide that burned tyre aroma.

So I'm going to have another attempt.

My extra question will be - Rice Malt Syrup - the white stuff. Is it fermentable? Can I use it? If I can use it to about 1/3rd the brew to back down that burnt tyre background, I'd go a long way to getting it sorted.

Given I work near enough to the Valley to walk in, I could obtain it readily from the Chinese grocer.


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## MHB

Yes its stated fermentability is 75%
Briess Rice Extract View attachment Briess_PISB_BriesSweetBrownRiceSyrup45HM.pdf

Took all of 30 seconds to Google
M


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

Not the Briess Brown Rice Syrup (as it apparently has a funny taste as well), but the White Rice Malt Syrup obtainable from Coles and the Chinese grocers.

I did google and found Briess (and the Sorghum), but not the White Rice that is used for chinese cooking/sauces, among other things.


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## Spoonta

yep I used it for a lager works great


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

I suppose the next question is - can you caramalise it? Reasons being, I could use golden syrup or belgian candi sugar to alter the colour to a more golden/copper/amber colour in line with the style, but if it doesn't have the caramel undertones (yes, I know belgian candi will provide some of that, but not all), it will taste like a dark coloured lice rager.


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## keifer33

When i was thinking about gluten free brewing I was going to have a go at invert sugar like in the historic british ales and barclays.


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## grantsglutenfreehomebrew

Gday guys. I've been using the rice malt from the brew shop. Not sure if its the same one. 1 jar of thst and a cup of dark brown sugar gave my lager attempt a lovely pale ale fruity ness. So much so that the next one will be a pale ale. As for caramellising. Ive never tried it but have caramellised honey alot. It should work ok. Just remember that caramellising sugars (I have foind) can refuce the fermentability although not by a great lot. As for the burnt rubber taste. I think your stuck with it.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

Thanks grant - you're a legend, and I was hoping you'd comment on this.

Bribie has pointed me to some pale, chinese rice malt and where to get it.

My only question with the rice malt from the brew shop 1. Is it grain and 2. If it is, how do you get saccharifcation, without mashing with a base malt?

I used table rice last time and stupidly didn't think that without a base malt, I'd get no conversion, because no mash.

I'd love to get this right, because 1. My mate misses beer (sometimes says "I'm sick of cider" and smelled a pale ale mine and sighed), and 2. He's been a great mate through a few issues lately, and I'd like to do something nice in return.

Goomba


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## MHB

Slightly off topic - Just a heads up really
Briess Sorghum malt is now available in 1.5 Kg Canisters like the rest of the Briess range, should be available where ever the rest of the range is stocked.
Pricing is also the same as the rest of the range so around the $13.50 to $14.00 for 1.5 Kg
MHB


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## grantsglutenfreehomebrew

Good morning guys. The rice malt from the brew shop is a liquid extract. I looked it up on the net a while back on how to make it and its just white rice grains that are mixed with a special mold/bacteria which breaks it down from memory. It went way over my head and I couldn't be bothered finding the mould in Australia.

I have used just plain long grain rice in a beer. I just boiled 3 cups of rice in 4 litres of water for half an hour. It turns into a gluggy starchy mess. Just strain off the grains and add to boiling wort. I have read on the net somewhere that its better to leave over night uncovered. I did do this as well another time. It did taste a little better but not much. Just remember that this takes alot longer to ferment as the yeast has to covert the starches and there's no A-amylase enzymes.

I've added two sorghum syrup recipes below that I reckon your mate might like. The second one, the American Pilsner doesn't have the burnt rubber taste. It is a little harder to do but (I am currently bottle conditioning one now) the effort is definitely worth the flavour.

Melb Bitter/VB/Any Australian commercial beer type brew.

3kg of sorghum syrup
75g of fuggles hop pellets
S-04 ale yeast
1 teaspoon of Irish Moss

Bring 8 litres of water to the boil and add 3kg of sorghum & 50g of hops. After 30 mins add 1 teaspoon of Irish Moss. After 50 minutes add 25g of hops. At 60 minutes turn off heat. Cool & strain wort into fermentation vessel. Add enough water to make 20 litres. Pitch yeast. SG 1.050 FG 1.010 5.1% Prime bottles with white household sugar.

American Pilsner.

3kg of sorghum syrup
1kg of frozen corn kernals
109g of SAAZ hop pellets
1 cup of honey
s-23 lager yeast
1 teaspoon of irish moss

2 days before brew boil 1 cup of honey with 1 cup of water for ten minutes. Let cool and put into a 3 litre sterilized juice container with enough water to make 2 litres. Pitch yeast, put a lid on bottle (I use oztops lid) and let yeast hydrate and grow. Check bottle regularly to release gas build up.

Brew day: defrost corn kernals, blitze in blender and mash in at 65c for one hour. Strain & add liquid to 8 litres of boiling water with 2.7kg of sorghum syrup & 53g of hops. After 30mins then add 1 teaspoon of Irish Moss. After 45 mins add 28g of hops. After 55 mins add 28g of hops. At 60mins turn off heat cool and strain into fermenter. Add enough cold water to make 20 litres. Pitch 2 litre yeast starter and ferment at 12c (this is a must). Takes about 3 weeks to ferment out. Bottle condition with 300g of sorghum syrup by adding it to 1 cup of water and boiling for 10 minutes. With a syringe add 5ml to a 330ml stubby. SG 1.044 FG 1.008 5.5% and no burnt rubber taste.

Sorry its so long winded but I hope it is of some help.


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## Bizier

grantsglutenfreehomebrew said:


> I have used just plain long grain rice in a beer. I just boiled 3 cups of rice in 4 litres of water for half an hour. It turns into a gluggy starchy mess. Just strain off the grains and add to boiling wort. I have read on the net somewhere that its better to leave over night uncovered. I did do this as well another time. It did taste a little better but not much. Just remember that this takes alot longer to ferment as the yeast has to covert the starches and there's no A-amylase enzymes.



Boiling rice and adding it to your beer without some kind of mash is just adding starch, which brewers yeast cannot metabolise by itself.

The uncovered overnight method probably gives you all sorts of enzymatic abilities, just like when lambic brewers get their yeast and bugs from the air using the same method.


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## Bizier

MHB said:


> Slightly off topic - Just a heads up really
> Briess Sorghum malt is now available in 1.5 Kg Canisters like the rest of the Briess range, should be available where ever the rest of the range is stocked.
> Pricing is also the same as the rest of the range so around the $13.50 to $14.00 for 1.5 Kg
> MHB


That is really cool news.

No excuses for not brewing GF people!


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

Thanks grant - not long winded at all.

How did you get rid of the burnt rubber taste? It appears as though this a good, but from a practical point of view, normal extract recipe (aaah, those were the days).

Have you got an AA% on the fuggles or Saaz? I have some Willamette (probably about 1/4kg or so) in the freezer, which is american fuggles, and this would do well.

Last time, I made a recipe similar to your megaswill one - Wills to about 25IBU, sorghum and 1kg cooked up rice (my stupid fault for not breaking it down first). US05 - I'm wondering if the S04 might strip back some of the maltiness and therefore some of the burnt taste.

I ended up with that burnt taste.

I have some yeast balls from the chinese shop, which are for taiwanese rice wine - I'd say that does the starch-sugar conversion.

I like your second recipe.

My approach to this upcoming recipe will be to bombard it with C hops (aka, make an APA), to hide the rubber taste.

Goomba


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## spaced

LRG, good to hear you're trying to brew a good beer for your mate. Two issues I find with sorghum are:

* Sourness and
* Residual sweetness

Currently I'm trialing Calcium Carbonate to reduce that sourness and it's working really well. I'd recommend a teaspoon in the boil or post fermentation for a day or two before bottling.

The residual sweetness I counter with some type of simple sugar (white, brown, honey), although I recommend putting a few extra dollars in and getting some Belgian candy syrup from Ross.


If your friend likes galaxy I'd do a cascade bittered pale ale, with galaxy at 15 and 5. Too early with galaxy in the boil I find didn't go well with the sorghum. Also add half the sorghum at the start and half at the end. And use Fermentis Brand US-05

If you're going to the next BABB's meeting let me know as you can try some Orange Peel Pale Ale and All Chinook IPA there. 


The guys from the Homebrewtalk website http://homebrewtalk.com/f164 have started putting together a gluten free brewing wiki http://glutenfreebrewing.wikispaces.com/

Commercial examples of gluten free beer I'd recommend for your mate to try are
Billabong Pale Ale (sometimes at archive)
Schnitzer Brau (Dan Murphys, this is a German Millet lager)
O'Brien Brown Ale (Can never find it on the shelves, but it's probably my preferred from their range)


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

spaced said:


> LRG, good to hear you're trying to brew a good beer for your mate. Two issues I find with sorghum are:
> 
> * Sourness and
> * Residual sweetness
> 
> Currently I'm trialing Calcium Carbonate to reduce that sourness and it's working really well. I'd recommend a teaspoon in the boil or post fermentation for a day or two before bottling.
> 
> The residual sweetness I counter with some type of simple sugar (white, brown, honey), although I recommend putting a few extra dollars in and getting some Belgian candy syrup from Ross.
> 
> 
> If your friend likes galaxy I'd do a cascade bittered pale ale, with galaxy at 15 and 5. Too early with galaxy in the boil I find didn't go well with the sorghum. Also add half the sorghum at the start and half at the end. And use Fermentis Brand US-05
> 
> If you're going to the next BABB's meeting let me know as you can try some Orange Peel Pale Ale and All Chinook IPA there.
> 
> 
> The guys from the Homebrewtalk website http://homebrewtalk.com/f164 have started putting together a gluten free brewing wiki http://glutenfreebrewing.wikispaces.com/
> 
> Commercial examples of gluten free beer I'd recommend for your mate to try are
> Billabong Pale Ale (sometimes at archive)
> Schnitzer Brau (Dan Murphys, this is a German Millet lager)
> O'Brien Brown Ale (Can never find it on the shelves, but it's probably my preferred from their range)



Thanks spaced - sounds like you're pretty well exactly where I am.

I'd planned on using Belgian Amber Candi Syrup to assist fermentation and colour adjustment as well, along with either self-malted or shop bought clear rice malt, and 2.8kg sorghum syrup.

I'd planned on bittering to around 30 IBU with Chinook, Cascade and Centennial - but I'm going to have to do some calcs, based on what I expect to boil vs what water I'll put into it. US05 - I use it in all my APA.

Thanks also for the links. I'm unlikely to ever make it to a BABBs meeting, but if I did - I'd let you know and see what I can do.

I noticed billabong at Archive, but it was $35/6er - whereas Snitzerbrau and O'Briens are between $65-$80 a carton, which is a helluva lot cheaper. I might shout him a carton, whilst I get this sorted.


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## spaced

Yeah billabong is crazy expensive in brisbane. I bought it once in Perth for 20-25 a six pack. Not great but better. Definitely recommend trying one stubby of it though.


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## grantsglutenfreehomebrew

Fuggles was 4% saaz was about 3.5%.
I think the rubber flavour was removed either by priming with sorghum or by fermenting at 12c. It was probably both.


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## grantsglutenfreehomebrew

Just cracked a great treacle & honey porter i made and has now bottle cond. for a month. Tastes great. Used 2 kg of SS. 850g of treacle & 500g of honey. Absolutely lovely. Will put recipe on webpage when time allows. Until then check out my facebook page for a picture.


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## grantsglutenfreehomebrew

Made a SS pale ale the other day. Also added 1kg of rice malt syrup & 1 cup of soft brown sugar. Only did an half hour boil with 25g of galaxy. After 10 mins added 25g od centennial then after another 10 mins added 25g of cascade. Used S-05. OG @ 1.054. Tasted @ 1.030. Absolutley beautiful. Cant wait for this one.


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## grantsglutenfreehomebrew

Yes. It truly is very tasty. Might back off on the hops next time. Which is tonight. Pale ales are truly Gods gift to man.


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