# Pipsqueak Cider Recipe



## mattcarty (3/2/09)

hey went to the wheatty for a few brews yesty, mmmmm wheatty goodness.

the other half was thrilled to see the Pipsqueak cider on tap so in a bid to win points i thought i might give it a go, anyone got a recipe to a cider similar to this?

cheers
carty


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## mikem108 (4/2/09)

No recipe, but listen to the Jamil cider revisited show for some tips.

Seems to be, pick a blend of apples, some tart some sweet, crush them and get the juice, add some yeast nutrient, add yeast, ferment and bottle.


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## drsmurto (4/2/09)

Never had pipsqueak - is it a dry cider?


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## sinkas (4/2/09)

not really, I think its all golden delicious


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## devo (4/2/09)

I got this tip from a friend recently which I'm hoping to try soon.

1 kilo of brown sugar into a fermenter, pour in about eight litres of berri preservative free apple juice then swish it with a mash paddle to dissolve the sugar into the juice. Then I top it up with more juice to 20 litres, and get a SG of 1040 or so. Then I load it up with champagne or wine yeast and brew it right down to 1005 or less. Takes 14 days at least, kept at temperature of about 20c.

Not sure how it measures up to the pipsqueak though?


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## scott_penno (4/2/09)

I'm considering something similar to what devo posted. A few threads here also suggest using some pear or apple/pear juice. If using champagne yeast, you'll end up with a pretty dry cider, won't you?. Has anyone used/considered using lactose in their ciders to add a bit of residual sweetness?

sap.


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## mattcarty (4/2/09)

have no idea what pipsqueak tastes like, not really a cider fan, but i have a few mates that love cider but dont drink beer (yeah i know its embarrasing why would i associate with these people?) so thought a good cider would keep them happy

any idea on priming? as per usual (i used to go the coopers carb drops when i was bottling) or would i need different sugar was thinking bottles cause i only have two taps and cant bring myself to losing one of them to cider.

cheers
carty


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## Supra-Jim (4/2/09)

Carb drops will be fine for the cider. Just a note i have always found my ciders needed around 4-6 weeks to carb up naturally.

:icon_cheers: SJ


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## LexP (4/2/09)

Might be worth adding some yeast nutrient as well to get a healthy fermentation


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## drsmurto (4/2/09)

matt carty said:


> *have no idea what pipsqueak tastes like,* not really a cider fan, but i have a few mates that love cider but dont drink beer (yeah i know its embarrasing why would i associate with these people?) so thought a good cider would keep them happy
> 
> any idea on priming? as per usual (i used to go the coopers carb drops when i was bottling) or would i need different sugar was thinking bottles cause i only have two taps and cant bring myself to losing one of them to cider.
> 
> ...



Could you ask your other half who was thrilled to see the pipsqueak taps (presumably because she likes and subsequently drank some cider and doesnt get excited by the sight of taps???).

If its a dry cider then it an easy task.

20L of preservative free apple juice
Wyeast 4766 cider yeast.

Franko makes a cider that has gotten good reviews - 

Cheers
DrSmurto

p.s. when bottling i prime with dex at 8g/L

EDIT - yes, if using straight yeast then some nutrient is a good idea


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## cdbrown (4/2/09)

Have just put down a cider brew
8 x 2.4L Berri Apple Concentrate
0.2kg LDME (for some body)
2 teaspoons of the yeast nutrient
Wyeast 4766 Cider yeast

OG was 1.050, 2 days later it's at 1.025 although looking at it you wouldn't know anything was happening.

This is more for a Bulmers/Magners cider which is meant to be all apple. Other people have swapped out a few bottles and used the Berri Apple/Pear concentrate.


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## tyoung (4/2/09)

Hi,

My new 'standard' cider is pretty close to Pipsqueak IMO.

Berri Pres-free apple juice + Wyeast 4766

One of the best cider's I've tasted. It also doesn't need maturing like ciders made with champagne yeast. 

This yeast is pretty lively. I was after some bottled cider in a hurry last week and it ended up carbing in 2 days. It did help with 40deg heat here in Melbourne. 

Cheers,

Tim


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## Ducatiboy stu (4/2/09)

Matt


I would not be embaresed at all about a cider thread, afterall it is still brewing, and just another challenge. I plan to make some soon, and am keeping a close eye on the cider threads


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## Fents (4/2/09)

what sort of FG does that 4766 cider yeast get to....every cider i've made has finishe <1.010 and i find it to dry.

anyone tried a cider using 1056 or US05?


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## Frank (4/2/09)

No help on the Recipe. But pipsqueak recipe was based on Aspall Cyder (spelt with a *y* in the UK, in cases you do a search) from the UK. Aspall is a great cyder and readily available in Australia. Distributed by Little World Beverages.


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## drsmurto (4/2/09)

Fents said:


> what sort of FG does that 4766 cider yeast get to....every cider i've made has finishe <1.010 and i find it to dry.
> 
> anyone tried a cider using 1056 or US05?



4766 stops around 1.000 altho i did once get it to stop at 1.010, presumably as that was the first batch, no nutrient and pitched the smackpack. Subsequent batches used the yeast cake with some DAP.

Not sure that a beer yeast will make any difference as its all simple sugars so any yeast will just chomp thru it all.


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## mattcarty (5/2/09)

tyoung said:


> Hi,
> 
> My new 'standard' cider is pretty close to Pipsqueak IMO.
> 
> ...




sounds good, so you dont need to add any 'kilo' to the brew, the yeast just feed off whatever sugars are in the juice i assume?

cheers
carty


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## drsmurto (5/2/09)

matt carty said:


> sounds good, so you dont need to add any 'kilo' to the brew, the yeast just feed off whatever sugars are in the juice i assume?
> 
> cheers
> carty



The juice should give you an OG of 1.046-8. Take a reading to check. 

So no need for extra sugar.

Wyeast 4766 is a great yeast so if you can get that, do so.


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## mattcarty (20/2/09)

tyoung said:


> Berri Pres-free apple juice + Wyeast 4766



i got my yeast today WOOO!

going to put this bad boy on in the next couple of days after i go to the store and buy about 23 litres of apple juice cant wait for that conversation at the check out  

will let you guys know how it turns out, after the GF gives me the review

cheers
carty


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## mattcarty (7/3/09)

ok so FINALLY got around to getting this cider on

wyeast and 21 ltrs of berri preservative free apple juice as suggested, pitched at 22 degrees (gotta love the weather in adelaide at the moment) so far beenbrewing around about 20-22 

so the fermenter is a coopers kit therefore airlock = useless, there are some bubbles forming on top of the wort but no overly obvious signs of brewing taking place after 4 days

havent done a cider before so was wondering if the krausen would be as obvious as beer, should there be more sign that brewing is taking place or is it just a matter of letting it go and monitoring the gravity.

oh also starting grav was 1044 from memory.

any tips?

Cheers
Carty


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## Jimmeh (7/3/09)

If it helps at all, I know for a fact that LC uses Isinglass to clear their cider up. Also the juice they use is primarily from Granny Smith apples.
I was lucky enough to go on a brewery tour there


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## mattcarty (12/3/09)

Jimmeh said:


> If it helps at all, I know for a fact that LC uses Isinglass to clear their cider up. Also the juice they use is primarily from Granny Smith apples.
> I was lucky enough to go on a brewery tour there




cooleo thanks for that mate i will give it a go

ok so the brew is fermenting, the gravity is dropping, day 5 saw it at 1020 so all good (had a taste test didnt mind it and i usually hate cidars) but it is surprising to me that there is almost no krausen or visible signs of fermenting does anyone know why that is? usually when i brew a beer its a krausen party and everyones invited but with cider nothin.

anyway still trying to decide if i should bottle or keg, i dont know if i can allow one of my 2 beer taps to be dedicated to cider but i am very lazy which is why i have a keg setup in the first place

oh and because they are so awesome!

cheers
carty


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## casualties_army40 (6/10/09)

cdbrown said:


> Have just put down a cider brew
> 8 x 2.4L Berri Apple Concentrate
> 0.2kg LDME (for some body)
> 2 teaspoons of the yeast nutrient
> Wyeast 4766 Cider yeast




Hey im new to homebrewing and just want to ask what is LDME? and also, is Wyeast wine yeast? thanks


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## bum (6/10/09)

LDME is Light Dry Malt Extract - it is used in much the same way as sugar but it leaves more body, flavour and often a residual sweetness. 
Wyeast is a brand of liquid yeast.
You can get both at your local homebrew shops (LHBS) or from the sponsors above.


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## Nick JD (6/10/09)

About ten years ago I made a fermenter full of "Snakebite". IIRC it was a 1.5kg can of Pale Malt Extract and about five 2L bottles of apple juice. 

Instead of sugar for priming, each bottle had a tablespoon of blackcurrant cordial syrup. 

Must make it again.

EDIT: maybe it was rasberry syrup...


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## manticle (6/10/09)

casualties_army40 said:


> Hey im new to homebrewing and just want to ask what is LDME? and also, is Wyeast wine yeast? thanks



There's a list of commonly (and some less commonly) used acronyms gere: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=17


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## Pollux (6/10/09)

I spotted the 2 for $5 3L Just Juice bottles at Woolies the other day....

12L of Apple, 6L of Apple Pear, added yeast nutrient and two packs of brigalow yeast that was kicking about in the fridge.....

1.044 OG, if it ferments out to 1.000 that makes a 6.1% cider in the keg for the wife.......


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## benny_bjc (26/11/09)

Hi,

I just tried a Pipsqueak Cider and am wanting to make something along the lines of this...

I am planning on using fresh apples and juicing them! I read that a range of different apples is best - and someone suggested: 1/3 each - Granny Smith, Pink Lady and Fuji....

Anyway Im not really sure how many apples I will need (probably do approx 10L batch for first go) so will probably go a box of each or something...

After Juicing the Apples should I leave them in a tub to settle and then tap off the clearer liquid or is cloudy ok? 
(I suppose it should really be settled in the fridge to wild yeasts... good luck finding room in my fridge argh!!!)

Do I then dilute the apple juice with water or leave it straight?

I assume there is no need for extra sugar and also would prefer a dry cider... but I have heard of people adding light dry malt - would this be necessary for a pipsqueak style cider??

I plan on using wyeast cider yeast.... I hope the summer temperatures won't be a problem!!!

If there is anything else I should know, or hints and tips please share?

Thanks Heaps!

P.s. Do I need to sanatise the apples - some suggest cambden tablets??? I saw video of another person soaking the apples in bleach - don't like the sound of that!)


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## Fourstar (26/11/09)

Fents said:


> what sort of FG does that 4766 cider yeast get to....every cider i've made has finishe <1.010 and i find it to dry.
> 
> anyone tried a cider using 1056 or US05?



I used US05 and it ended at 1.006 or 4.9%ABV

tastes great to me but it you wanted it to stop at 1.010 you would probabaly have to add a campden tablet or hot pasturise it. I dont know what that would do to the flavour thou.


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## manticle (26/11/09)

beer007 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I just tried a Pipsqueak Cider and am wanting to make something along the lines of this...
> 
> ...




A range of apples is essential. You want sweet, bitter, tart if you can. I reckon equal representation is best but if you prefer one over the other then balance accordingly.

My efforts at all apple ciders have not quite been successful in many terms (tastewise they were good though) so the exact amounts I'm unsure of. However I would suggest at least twice the weight of apples as required liquid.

I have found leaving for 24-48 hours and then racking gives the best results for clarity. During this time, make a yeast starter so when you pitch the yeast will take off pretty much straight away.

Use some yeast nutrient. No need for extra sugar bar something unfermentable like lactose. 500g of lactose: 20 L cider still gives a very dry cider - mine finish around 1000 using wine yeasts.

I prefer no sulphites but they can help prevent wild/apple yeasts taking hold if you are concerned. I've had no definitive issues with this with the few sulphite free versions I've done and the cider is ready to drink quicker.

However my most recent effort which came up beautifully clear and clean for the most part displayed cloudiness in the last two or three. Still tasted good but maybe my non-sulphite usage allowed infection which didn't appear till later? Not sure and regardless: I hate sulphites so I'll be looking at other ways around this.

Many naturally fermented ciders (Normandy, Breton, Scrumpy) are cloudy so it depends what you're chasing. Pipsqueak is clear thouhg. Fining and cold conditioning will help.


I like to ferment low - around 2-14 degrees but wine yeasts tolerate that. Not sure about the wyeast..


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## benny_bjc (26/11/09)

Thanks Heaps!

Do I need to buy the yeast nutrient or can I make that up somehow?


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## manticle (26/11/09)

You can buy it or you can make it.

Brew shops will sell diammonium phosphate which is a wine yeast nutrient (since I use wine yeasts, it's what I use).

You can make it (yeast nutrient not DAP) by boiling up some old kit yeast as dead yeast acts as a nutrient. Some poeple suggest the odour is unpleasant - I'm sorry I can't vouch either way.

I also can't elaborate on the different performances of DAP vs boiled kit yeast but the DAP hasn't failed me so far and the reports I hear of boiled yeast are good.


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## benny_bjc (26/11/09)

manticle said:


> You can buy it or you can make it.
> 
> Brew shops will sell diammonium phosphate which is a wine yeast nutrient (since I use wine yeasts, it's what I use).
> 
> ...



Thanks I will probably end up using wine yeast... if I can't get my hands on cider yeast quickly.


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## benny_bjc (26/11/09)

oh and also... how long will the cider last if left natural - i.e. no sanitizing / cambden tablets etc...?


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## manticle (26/11/09)

Do you mean before pitching?

I wouldn't recommend no sanitising.

I would sanitise the vessel you're putting everything into and give the apples a good wash. Make sure the juicing equipment is sanitised as well. Juice everything, put in fermenter, seal and place in fridge for 1-2 days. A crust should form. Rack (into a second sanitised vessel) using the tap or a siphon under the crust and leave the crust behind. Then pitch the starter.

If you want to go completely natural, using the wild yeasts in the apples then read up about breton cidermaking. Before you attempt that though I would recommend tasting a few commercial examples as they are a different kettle of fish and not to everyone's tastes. I like them but they are sour, musty and cloudy - not anything like the commercial ciders we are used to.

I would also recommend building up to trying that rather than trying that for your first go. I aim to do a breton style cider one day but I think it's important to take steps and understand what you're doing and what mistakes you are making along the way.


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## Muggus (26/11/09)

beer007 said:


> I am planning on using fresh apples and juicing them! I read that a range of different apples is best - and someone suggested: 1/3 each - Granny Smith, Pink Lady and Fuji....


As Manticle mentioned, the trend for a good apple ciders is a mix of sweet, tart and bitter. The thing is, the latter (bitter) apples arn't exactly the varieties you'll find in your local supermarket. Thinking about it, Grannys (when picked young) are tart, Pink Ladys are slightly tart, slightly sweet though not much of either this time of year, and Fuji, kinda sweet, faintest bit tannic.
You'll find some recipes use crab apples in them to make up for the tart and bitter elements, because that's what they are!

Having said all that, most commercial ciders really don't have that much acid, and certainly arn't bitter. This sort of rule generally applies to more rustic, farmhouse ciders, which really are far more flavoursome, and for the most part, potent!
I could imagine nothing but good Pink Lady apples would make a very nice cider. But that might just be because I really love a nice crisp tart Pink Lady! :icon_drool2:


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## manticle (26/11/09)

It's not right to call a tart a lady nor a lady a tart.


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## Muggus (27/11/09)

manticle said:


> It's not right to call a tart a lady nor a lady a tart.


If she's a lady in pink, there's a good chance she's a tart.


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## manticle (27/11/09)

Yes but all ladies have pink and.................ok I'll stop there


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## Muggus (27/11/09)

manticle said:


> Yes but all ladies have pink and.................ok I'll stop there


Oh thank god! h34r:


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## benny_bjc (3/12/09)

ok I am up to the fermentation part....

I have some wine yeast and nutrient.

Problem is I have no where to ferment the cider that is cool enough, especially with these 30+ days (Also need to take into consideration the higher temperatures inside the fermenter).
No fridge space and no wine fridge!
No Basement etc

Would bags of ice and water in a tub be sufficient or will that be too cold for the yeast!?

Also how much yeast nutrient should I use for 10L Batch?

P.S. 

I am using Lalvin Ec-1118 Yeast:

"This strain ferments well over a very wide temperature range, from 10 to 30C"

Despite this wide fermentation range I am sure it is best if I ferment at the lower end to middle of the scale, ideally 15 degrees!


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## benny_bjc (4/12/09)

also...

Can I add the lactose after fermentation to the desirable amount, or Should I add the lactose before fermentation process?


And Are the bottle priming rates the same for cider as beer?


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## cdbrown (4/12/09)

Water in a tub, wrap the fermenter in towels so that the towels can absorb the water. The water in the towels will evaporate and cool the fermenter.

Ferment at 20C - middle of the range seems to be a good spot for yeast.

I wouldn't recommend adding lactose after. Put everything in before the yeast.


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## benny_bjc (14/12/09)

To bulk prime my cider with dextrose, should I follow the same standard rate for beer?

I.e. 4-6g / Litre


Thanks.


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## benny_bjc (22/12/09)

Hi Just sharing the results of my Cider Brewing.

I bought one box of each of the following apples:

Granny Smith, Pink Lady & Fuji.

Use a bit less then the whole box and made it up to 10L using Juicer. Roughly equal amounts of each apples.

Put juice in fermenter and left in fridge for few days and then syphoned / tapped juice, excluding sediment and crust on top of juice.

Added Lactose Sugar.

Fermented for a week using Lalvin Wine Yeast and yeast nutrient.

Tastes great - infact I think it is much better than the pipsqueak which I was originally aiming for. A nice light cloudy apple colour which I prefer over the crystal clear. Can really pick up the apple aroma and taste and seems to be decent alcohol content. A bit more body / mouth feel then the pipsqueak which is a plus!

I had my doubt about this brew, but am pleasantly surprised. I normally drink / brew beer, and juicing the apples was a hell of a job.... but was luckily worthwhile.

Cheers!


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## manticle (22/12/09)

Sounds exactly like the way I make my cider. I think fermenting low is key to a clean tasting cider in a reasonable time frame.

I find pipsqueak a bit bland so I'm not surprised you got more flavour out of yours. A bit late but you can add lactose either after or during - I always add mine during.

And again too late but the beauty of bulk priming is the ability to alter your carbonation rate depending on what you're brewing. Find a beer style that's roughly at a similar level of fizz to where you want your cider. Whatever co2 volume that is, put it through a carbonation calculator and that will give you the amount to use.


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## benny_bjc (22/12/09)

manticle said:


> Sounds exactly like the way I make my cider. I think fermenting low is key to a clean tasting cider in a reasonable time frame.
> 
> I find pipsqueak a bit bland so I'm not surprised you got more flavour out of yours. A bit late but you can add lactose either after or during - I always add mine during.



woops... i forgot to mention that I added some lactose! I added some but I forget how much... will look up my notes later!

Oh and yes... I fermenter using a cold water bath under the house... to keep temps low!


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## manticle (22/12/09)

I fermenter too.


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## benny_bjc (22/12/09)

manticle said:


> I fermenter too.



oh yeah... I'm upgrading everything to the latest Apple I-Technology!

Dear-e-me my spelling is shocking tonight!


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## manticle (22/12/09)

It's ok. Sometimes my keyboard malfunctions too.

Keen to make a cider for summer but my temp control is water, ice bottles and towels. I can keep ales down to 18 on a very hot day but I like to ferment my ciders at 12. I might crack one out regardless as I have been given a new (2nd hand)* juicer and apples are super cheap just up the road. 

*New to me, owned before.


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## fergyle (23/12/10)

how important is cooling the cider? i was planning on doing it over summer in our garage, which maintains a moderate temperature. if i have to refrigerate, things are going to be a lot more difficult.


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## manticle (23/12/10)

I just find a smoother end result if I keep ferment cool. Less sulphur too (although adding nutrient and pitching a healthy amount of healthy yeast lessens this as well).

My reading of traditional cidermaking suggests cool, slow ferment and my own experience supports this.

I don't do it in a fridge but without a fridge or some other cooler chamber/container it might e harder in summer, dependent on location.


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## fergyle (18/1/11)

kept in in the garage fermenting for 2 weeks. managed to maintain it at a pretty constant 24 degrees. didn't use any nutrient, so i'm a little worried about the sulfur, but with any luck it'll be okay


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## fergyle (18/2/11)

cracked open the first one last night.

it wasn't the best thing i've ever had, but for a first try i think it was pretty good.

there is virtually no sweetness, it's slightly dry, and it's very alcoholic. 

will be knocking back a few over the coming months!


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