# Increasing Biab Efficiency



## stowaway (15/9/08)

Now that ive had 2 Good BIAB brews. (with 2 more fermenting) 
I thought it was time to start improving Efficiency.

The things I already know of are:
increase my mash temperature to about 75 before taking out the grain.
Improve Water Chemistry (I plan on using PH 5.2 Powder from craftbrewer. automattically makes PH 5.2)

Anything else I can add to my list to improve efficiency?


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## razz (15/9/08)

How's your crush looking?


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## stowaway (15/9/08)

razz said:


> How's your crush looking?



my crush is done mostly by craftbrewers.


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## seemax (15/9/08)

stowaway said:


> Now that ive had 2 Good BIAB brews. (with 2 more fermenting)
> I thought it was time to start improving Efficiency.
> 
> The things I already know of are:
> ...



What sort of efficiency did you get with those two brews?

I had some left over bits of grain so I did another BIAB last night, something along the lines of an Aussie Ale consisting of JW Ale and some crystal and wheat.

I finally managed to get some swiss voile after searching through Spotlight. It was actually in the curtain section. Got a 1.5m square for $8.

I did things a little different than last night. I mashed in with a 3L/kg ratio at 67C for 70mins. Then I added water up to my boil size of 18L to mash out temp of 76C. End result was 80% efficiency, much higher than my previous attempt of 65% (using muslin cloth) and even better than my fancy esky lauter tun which never bettered 75%. Didn't have any empty cubes (both full of wort in cold conditioning!) so I used my wort chiller. Overall I prefer the BIAB method, it's less stuffing around with my esky and draining and less cleaning up. The voile cleans up quick and easy too.

The proof will be in the ale, so to speak, in about a months time!


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## stowaway (15/9/08)

Well previously i have mashed for 90mins.
this time i only mashed for 60mins.
and my efficiency was somewhere between 55% - 60% so very very bad.

but previos mashes i have got around 70 - 75% mark. mashing for 90mins.


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## reviled (15/9/08)

2 good Ag's? So the flavour problem went away? Or was it the third and fourth batch that turned out tops?


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## stowaway (15/9/08)

reviled said:


> 2 good Ag's? So the flavour problem went away? Or was it the third and fourth batch that turned out tops?




Reviled - The first one was the only one with the flavour problem. After I CC and gassed the third one it didnt have that flavour. I think i was paraniode or something... 
I thought I could detect the same disgusting flavour as my first AG in my third AG. but its not. it was fine  (not exactly "tops" as i the seocnd one was an oktoberfest beer which isnt my fav, and the third 1 was a random ale i made up the recipe.. but its drinkable and its the receipe fualt not a method fault) Still im enjoying them both.


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## reviled (15/9/08)

stowaway said:


> Reviled - The first one was the only one with the flavour problem. After I CC and gassed the third one it didnt have that flavour. I think i was paraniode or something...
> I thought I could detect the same disgusting flavour as my first AG in my third AG. but its not. it was fine  (not exactly "tops" as i the seocnd one was an oktoberfest beer which isnt my fav, and the third 1 was a random ale i made up the recipe.. but its drinkable and its the receipe fualt not a method fault) Still im enjoying them both.



Wicked, i can breathe again about my no chill in the kettle beers :icon_drunk:


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## stowaway (15/9/08)

likesbeer: D said:


> I myself chill overnight in the kettle and I know a few other guys do too, without noticeable detriment, can you describe the flavour you are trying to eliminate?



This is a quote from this thread: [post="0"]http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=25755&st=0&p=352316&#entry352316[/post]

just goes to show u and i are not the only peeople who chill in the kettle and that there is no problem with it. 
(although i have started putting it into a cube now just to try clean up my method)


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## gerald (16/9/08)

i did a brew on the weekend and i got 45% efficiency. i was using a new technique but it was still BIAB.

previously i had done BIAB in a kettle and it was really difficult to get the right temps and what not, not realy sure what temps it was at etc.. etc.. so i used BIAB in an esky so i could keep more solid temps, it seemed to work. hit strike temp of 66/67. it dropped down a bit, to 63 and i topped it back up. and i sparged with 75*C

i have no idea why my efficieny is so low. one idea is that i was using a hop bag from craftbrewer and the grains were quite compact in it. i tried to loosen them up etc.. during the mash. all my other brews it has been a thick liquid with all the grains floating around in it but this one it really was just the bag with the grain and the water all around it. could this be my problem??

really devo


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## trevc (16/9/08)

Doesn't the original BIAB bag design offer much more surface area than most hop socks? This would result in a higher water to grist ratio, ease of mixing, and likely better efficiency along with it. It's fitted to your kettle, isn't it? The swiss voile material may also work better. Taking guesses here, I've never done BIAB.

I think no-chilling in a kettle is flirting with disaster. Sure you'll get lucky sometimes, or maybe a lot of the time, but why take the risk when it's so easy to follow thoroughly tested procedures? Cubes are cheap. Kettles are very hard to make air-tight, and when the wort cools, it'll pull in outside air one way or another.

Edit: bad late night spelling....


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## katzke (16/9/08)

gerald said:


> i have no idea why my efficieny is so low. one idea is that i was using a hop bag from craftbrewer and the grains were quite compact in it. i tried to loosen them up etc.. during the mash. all my other brews it has been a thick liquid with all the grains floating around in it but this one it really was just the bag with the grain and the water all around it. could this be my problem??
> 
> really devo



Yes.


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## Thirsty Boy (16/9/08)

gerald said:


> i did a brew on the weekend and i got 45% efficiency. i was using a new technique but it was still BIAB.
> 
> previously i had done BIAB in a kettle and it was really difficult to get the right temps and what not, not realy sure what temps it was at etc.. etc.. so i used BIAB in an esky so i could keep more solid temps, it seemed to work. hit strike temp of 66/67. it dropped down a bit, to 63 and i topped it back up. and i sparged with 75*C
> 
> ...



*Gerald -* I hate to be blunt about it , but the reason your BiaB might not have worked out all that efficiently - could be because you have ignored a great deal of the advice about how one should go about doing a BiaB brew.

Maybe try doing it as suggested, then see what happens. One of the key peices of advice, that has been stress and re-stressed during many many posts about BiaB, is that the bag should be big enough to put your entire boil kettle inside. You are not -repeat NOT - mashing in a bag, you are mashing in a pot that just happens to be lined by a bag, the bag should in no way confine or restrict the grains. You should be able to stir, mix , measure etc etc as though the bag were in fact not there are all.

If you follow the suggested methods and if your bag is the right size and made of the suggested material, then temps are easy to take, easy to hit and easy to adjust, and you should get an efficiency somewhere around the mid 70's depending on the gravity of the brew.

I have the largest hop bag from craftbrewer - it is about one tenth the size of the bag I would suggest you make/buy for a single batch BiaB system

Perhaps that might be a start.

*Stowaway - * I'd stick to the basics for a couple more brews mate. You got 70-75 in your first couple of brews - thats about what you can expect from BiaB. Raise the temp to 76-78 before you pull the bag, maybe go back to that 90min mash. And see if you can start to get reasonably consistent efficiencies. Once you have a consistent technique and are getting fairly consistent efficiency numbers - then when you change something to try and do better, you will actually know whether its worked or not. At the moment, it might just be pot luck.

To get much better than 70-75% efficiency - you are going to have to start looking at "advanced" BiaB such as seemax is doing - and I just dont think that its worth the trouble when you are first starting out. Just get it to 70ish, then stick with the basic method for a while. When you are sure you are on top of it completely, then try for extra. But if you can get more than 83% out of a BiaB you beat the best I have ever done... I think Spills got 85% once - both times using a dunk sparge technique. So the best you are going to do is really around 5-10% extra. I no longer bother... its just not worth it.

Consistency is so much more important than efficiency - I really do suggest you go for that as a first priority.

TB


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