# Homebrew Laws



## dc59 (7/9/08)

Link to a nice article I found.
*
22L per week.*
That was the info I was after as I'm sure I read something about it ages ago but forgot what the actual allowable volume was.


Does anyone know of any other laws in regard to homebrewing. Like age of brewer or alcohol content of brews. Not being able to sell your beer or make profits from it is obviously another law though I haven't the exact wording of the law. 

This question is just out of curiosity.

Thanbks for any info, David.


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## Muggus (7/9/08)

There's laws!?!? :blink:


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## Adamt (7/9/08)

Distillation of alcohol of course is illegal... this includes freeze distilling (a.k.a. eis'ing).


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## Effect (7/9/08)

I think it is a bit like weed in Holland - it is illegal to do it - but the police just don't care. I don't think there will be any police effort being put behind measuring the amount of beer brewed in backyards (unless they found out we were selling it)


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## MitchDudarko (7/9/08)

Don't tell anyone, but, only 10 days ago I had 3 fermenters sitting in my laundry bubbling away. But after reading that... I've only got one now lol. I _swear_. lol. :lol:


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## Greg Lawrence (7/9/08)

MitchDudarko said:


> Don't tell anyone, but, only 10 days ago I had 3 fermenters sitting in my laundry bubbling away. But after reading that... I've only got one now lol. I _swear_. lol. :lol:



I have 3 going at all times. Each one is a week apart. It is only just keeping me with a steady supply. I am considering a couple more to try to get some stocks up.


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## Benniee (7/9/08)

MitchDudarko said:


> Don't tell anyone, but, only 10 days ago I had 3 fermenters sitting in my laundry bubbling away.



That's it - I'm dobbing... :lol: 

Benniee


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## HoppingMad (7/9/08)

Distillation of spirits and the law pretty much summed up here. 

http://www.ato.gov.au/print.asp?doc=/content/66216.htm

Homebrew, the kits and the equipment used to make it is banned in Lockhart River, Aurukun & Mornington Island Queensland. I gather there are a few bans in other spots around Oz.

http://www.atsip.qld.gov.au/communities/al.../home-brew.html

In terms of limits on your batch, couldn't find anything after some pretty extensive googling. We'd need someone who knows their way around a legal database methinks. 

Hopper.


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## muckey (7/9/08)

HoppingMad said:


> Homebrew, the kits and the equipment used to make it is banned in Lockhart River, Aurukun & Mornington Island Queensland. I gather there are a few bans in other spots around Oz.
> 
> http://www.atsip.qld.gov.au/communities/al.../home-brew.html



Absolutely. I believe all the Aboriginal Land councils have that rule to control some of the associates issue. They also have limits on the type and strength of alcoholic beverage that you can take into those area's - as well as limits on the amounts.

Guess I'll just stay home with my fermenter and kegs


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## chiefman (8/9/08)

HoppingMad said:


> Distillation of spirits and the law pretty much summed up here.
> 
> http://www.ato.gov.au/print.asp?doc=/content/66216.htm
> 
> ...


 
So I seems its all about the ATO trying to squeeze another dollar out of us :angry:


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## Bribie G (9/9/08)

There's a bit about it in Wikipedia if you search on home brewing. Apparently it was common in Victoria in the 1960s for police to stake out home brew shops, follow you home, and raid your laundry! Nowadays of course they would just shoot you.  

I note that distilling is legal in NZ - has this led to widespread dissolution of society?? Wouldn't interest me since I drank a whole bottle of Scotch when I was 15 to see what would happen, spent 4 days in bed groaning and throwing up and to this day all spirits taste like petrol to me. :blink:


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## Asher (9/9/08)

1'st law of homebrew : Always Stir Clockwise


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## Bribie G (9/9/08)

Asher said:


> 1'st law of homebrew : Always Stir Clockwise


In the Southern Hemisphere B)


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## Interloper (9/9/08)

Asher said:


> 1'st law of homebrew : Always Stir Clockwise



"The first law of homebrew is that you do not talk about homebrew."

--_Tyler Durden
 
_
(love that movie, perhaps we need a favourite movie thread here?)


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## Parks (9/9/08)

Dravid said:


> *22L per week.*
> That was the info I was after as I'm sure I read something about it ages ago but forgot what the actual allowable volume was.


That would be a very good explaination as to where the magic 23L brews came about - 1L to waste and 22L to conform to the legislation...


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## jaytee (9/9/08)

Asher said:


> 1'st law of homebrew : Always Stir Clockwise



and I always thought it was sterilise the tin opener :lol:


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## gap (9/9/08)

Parks said:


> That would be a very good explaination as to where the magic 23L brews came about - 1L to waste and 22L to conform to the legislation...




Actually the 23 L came from kits being made in the UK.

23L = 5 UK(Imperial) Gallons = 40 UK pints.

This was the quantity a kit would produce.


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## Simon W (9/9/08)

Yeah, wouldnt surprise me if the law was decided on the most common batch size at the time.


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## Steve (9/9/08)

gap said:


> 23L = 5 UK(Imperial) Gallons = 40 UK pints.



 f*&^ck me! My mother back in blighty would have a fit if she new I drank 40 Pints a week. Im actually taken aback as Ive never really thought about it.


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## buttersd70 (9/9/08)

I would never drink 40 pints a week, thats a ridiculous amount.......I drink 80 halves. :lol:


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## Mantis (9/9/08)

Steve said:


> f*&^ck me! My mother back in blighty would have a fit if she new I drank 40 Pints a week. Im actually taken aback as Ive never really thought about it.




What,,,, is 40 pints too many. Guess I'll have to shorten my weeks h34r:


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## Andyd (11/9/08)

Homebrewing was made legal in 1973 when Gough Whitlam's government introduced legislation to allow homebrewers to brew 22 Litres per week.

Regards,

Andy


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## spog (13/9/08)

Andyd said:


> Homebrewing was made legal in 1973 when Gough Whitlam's government introduced legislation to allow homebrewers to brew 22 Litres per week.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Andy



hey gough, some of us brew more than that,come get me B) .........cheers..kevin rudd  ..


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## Tony (13/9/08)

Interloper said:


> "The first law of homebrew is that you do not talk about homebrew."
> 
> --_Tyler Durden
> 
> ...



+1 on the movie 

Second Law of homebrew is if this is your first home brew...... you HAVE to drink!


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## Sammus (13/9/08)

Andyd said:


> Homebrewing was made legal in 1973 when Gough Whitlam's government introduced legislation to allow homebrewers to brew 22 Litres per week.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Andy



Not wanting to sound like a jerk or anything, but can you back that up? I have also read people say there is no limit in Australia, only in some European countries. Can't find any evidence to back any of it up though.


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## Tyred (13/9/08)

Andyd said:


> Homebrewing was made legal in 1973 when Gough Whitlam's government introduced legislation to allow homebrewers to brew 22 Litres per week.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Andy



Is that 22 litres per week on average or 22 litres per week as defined by a seven day period ? Probably pedantic but if not properly defined open to interpretation.


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## whitty (22/9/08)

Tyred said:


> Is that 22 litres per week on average or 22 litres per week as defined by a seven day period ? Probably pedantic but if not properly defined open to interpretation.




and does it alow me to brew 22L, my wife to brew 22L and my 1yr old son to brew 22L?


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## Interloper (22/9/08)

whitty said:


> and does it alow me to brew 22L, my wife to brew 22L and my 1yr old son to brew 22L?



Yes, and your cat, dog and budgie are all allowed 22L each as well. If your neighbours do not brew then you may also brew 22L for every adult neighbour you have over the legal drinking age.

So...um...drink up! :icon_chickcheers:


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## domonsura (22/9/08)

Exerpt from Willie Simpson's book - "HOME BREW"

*Home brewing was legalised in Australia under Prime Minister Gough Whitlams Labor government in 1973 in fact, the home-brew law was one of the very first among a raft of new legislation introduced by the highly reformist regime. Before that, it had been legal to make beer at home but only if it was around 1 per cent alcohol (in other words, gnats bladder weak).

The exact wording of the new law introduced under Whitlam allows home brewers to make 22 litres of beer per week. Of course, thats more than enough for any individual to consume but, really, this is only a guideline and I dont know of anyone who has ever been prosecuted for making more than the allowable volume. *

Can't find the legislation though (in fact I can't find _anything_ legislative that applies to home brewing apart from a document where ATO argues amongst itself whether or not 'carbonation sticks' should be GST exempt............


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## MartinS (22/9/08)

domonsura said:


> Can't find the legislation though



Yeah, I've suspected for quite some time that it's an urban legend (which even Mr Simpson is guilty of repeating). My understanding is that the Whitlam government never actually explicitly legislated to legalise homebrewing, but rather repealed the legislation that effectively made homebrewing illegal.

Edit: Ahh, found it. Excise Tariff Act 1921 says, "Items 1 to 3 of this Schedule do not include any liquor that has been produced for non-commercial purposes, using non-commercial facilities and equipment, other than a liquor that is, or that contains, any spirit obtained by distillation."

Nothing about volume limits that I can see.


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## PostModern (22/9/08)

ATO mention no limit:
http://www.ato.gov.au/print.asp?doc=/Content/52130.htm


> Beer that is produced for non-commercial purposes using non-commercial facilities and equipment (home brew) is not subject to excise duty.


But that is just a info page.

Not much else jumps out from several pages of google summaries, all just basically say the same thing.


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## HoppingMad (22/9/08)

According to this link here (Section 4.1.2):

http://www.treasury.gov.au/documents/984/H...RL=SETDP-05.htm

If you brew for non-commercial purposes, but use commercial facilities then you have to pay 7% excise. Haven't been to a brew-on-premise but didn't realise the govt was able to sting you there for brewing on some up-scale equipment.

Guess those with nice HERMS/RIMS or Conical setups at home better not start renting them out or the men in suits with calculators will be after you! :lol: 

Hopper.


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## Andyd (23/9/08)

anyone feel like trawling Hansard?  I would if I had time...


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## hoohaaman (23/9/08)

MY only home brew law is,keep the fermenters full and the fridge fuller.After all Gough made it legal


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## rich_lamb (23/9/08)

Shouldn't there be a law along the lines of you must make a toast to Gough on the first beer out of every batch or something?


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## hoohaaman (23/9/08)

I do


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## Andyd (23/9/08)

Hmmm. Just did a quick scan of online legislation databases and nothing came up. I'll do some more digging later.


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## MartinS (24/9/08)

People must have missed it from my earlier post (added it as an edit):

Excise Tariff Act 1921 says, "Items 1 to 3 of this Schedule do not include any liquor that has been produced for non-commercial purposes, using non-commercial facilities and equipment, other than a liquor that is, or that contains, any spirit obtained by distillation."

That's the bit that makes homebrew legal, and there's no mention of volume limits.


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## domonsura (24/9/08)

But there is mention of a 22 litre limit somewhere in the actual legislature, I've seen it. I just can't find it now. 

I'm not suggesting that it's ever been enforced or ever will be, but somewhere there is a specific figure given based on calendar month per adult per residence.

The excise tarif legislation is simply the ATO's legislation regarding who should and shouldn't get charged for making it, it has nothing to do with homebrew whatsoever ( and that is directly from the ATO's excise collection department 'mouth' (I had a visit from them the other week ) The ATO isn't concerned with who is and isn;t allowed to brew, they only care about whether or not they get money for it


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## MartinS (24/9/08)

domonsura said:


> But there is mention of a 22 litre limit somewhere in the actual legislature, I've seen it. I just can't find it now.



Perhaps some states have extra legislation? Or perhaps there used to be a limit?


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## domonsura (24/9/08)

I was going through the liquor act history and amendments when I read it, I'll find it again when I get some time to spare. (Yes, i am a sad person who will actually read legislature from cover to cover if I have to....)


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## PostModern (24/9/08)

MartinS said:


> People must have missed it from my earlier post (added it as an edit):
> 
> Excise Tariff Act 1921 says, "Items 1 to 3 of this Schedule do not include any liquor that has been produced for non-commercial purposes, using non-commercial facilities and equipment, other than a liquor that is, or that contains, any spirit obtained by distillation."
> 
> That's the bit that makes homebrew legal, and there's no mention of volume limits.



Excellent. This would indicate that my Xmas case Eisbock will actually be legal!



domonsura said:


> I was going through the liquor act history and amendments when I read it, I'll find it again when I get some time to spare. (Yes, i am a sad person who will actually read legislature from cover to cover if I have to....)



What, you don't have Ctrl^F?


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## Ducatiboy stu (24/9/08)

domonsura said:


> ( and that is directly from the ATO's excise collection department 'mouth' (I had a visit from them the other week )




So how come you got a visit from them..??


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## Adamt (24/9/08)

PostModern said:


> Excellent. This would indicate that my Xmas case Eisbock will actually be legal!




Freeze distillation is still distillation!


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## MartinS (24/9/08)

The various Liquor Acts are state legislation, which relate to the sale of liquor (at least in the cases of NSW and SA). Production of excisable goods is a federal issue, and is covered by the combination of the Excise Act and the Excise Tariff Act.

While you're right that the Excise Tariff Act is mainly about how much the ATO gets, the Excise Act is the thing that actually makes it illegal to produce excisable goods without a license. Homebrew is legal by omission, rather than explicit legalisation: since the Excise Tariff Act excludes it from excise, which stops the Excise Act from applying to it.



> Yes, i am a sad person who will actually read legislature from cover to cover if I have to...


It's not that sad .


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## MartinS (24/9/08)

Adamt said:


> Freeze distillation is still distillation!



I'm not so sure about that. The law doesn't define the term "distillation", but most definitions treat freeze distillation as something else.


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## stillscottish (24/9/08)

I was leafing through an old home brew book from about 1970 in a Lifeline store last month (wish I'd bought it now).
The recipes were specifically for the low alcohol content allowed at that time. I don't remember seeing anything else in it about legislation.

Kawana Waters if anyone wants to go look for it.

Campbell


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## PostModern (24/9/08)

Adamt said:


> Freeze distillation is still distillation!






> 3.2.8 Whisky
> Whisky means a spirit obtained by the distillation of a fermented liquor of a mash of cereal grain in such a manner that the spirit possesses the taste, aroma and other characteristics generally attributed to whisky



There is nothing which ascribes a general definition as "spirit". All of the other specified spirits refer to stuff of or over 17% alcohol by volume. I think I'm covered. They mention brandy from grapes, Rum by sugar cane products... the only mashed stuff is whisky so at 12-17%, Eisbock is not whisky, therefore is not a spirit, therefore is not subject to excise, so I'm cool.

In the same way that you can own a still, you can own a freezer, so long as you don't use it to make spirit. That's my completely random and unbiased *cough* interpretation and I'm sticking to it 

EDIT:
And the definition of beer:


> 3.2.1 Beer
> 
> Beer means a brewed beverage which:
> 
> ...



I will not add alcohol to it, but only remove water. Still a beer!


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## Adamt (24/9/08)

Sounds dynamite!

I thought I remember hearing about some legislation regarding 'the concentration of alcohol' which covers both eis'ing and traditional distilling.

Not that it matters at all... ever heard of anyone having their house raided looking for frozen fermenters? Even think it will happen? Not a chance at all.


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## 0M39A (24/9/08)

PostModern said:


> There is nothing which ascribes a general definition as "spirit". All of the other specified spirits refer to stuff of or over 17% alcohol by volume. I think I'm covered. They mention brandy from grapes, Rum by sugar cane products... the only mashed stuff is whisky so at 12-17%, Eisbock is not whisky, therefore is not a spirit, therefore is not subject to excise, so I'm cool.
> 
> In the same way that you can own a still, you can own a freezer, so long as you don't use it to make spirit. That's my completely random and unbiased *cough* interpretation and I'm sticking to it
> 
> ...



So what about turbo yeats that can ferment up to 22% alcohol?

a lot of homebrew shops sell all the gear for setting yourself up with carbon filters etc to make the stuff as neutral as possible, but without distilling. being over 17% wouldnt they classify it as a spirit?

*note i havent read any links, just going on the summarys you have posted


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## PostModern (24/9/08)

0M39A said:


> So what about turbo yeats that can ferment up to 22% alcohol?
> 
> a lot of homebrew shops sell all the gear for setting yourself up with carbon filters etc to make the stuff as neutral as possible, but without distilling. being over 17% wouldnt they classify it as a spirit?
> 
> *note i havent read any links, just going on the summarys you have posted



From the (brief and selective) reading I have done, they're OK (IANAL) as they're not distilled to get to that strength. The laws are phrased in terms of the production methods in place when they were written and are about taxation of commercial products. It's a good point tho, because it means although my Eisbock is not taxable, it might still be dodgy due to the concentration of alcohol. However, I think a slap on the wrist is the worst that would come of it in real life. If you tried to sell it, tho, there's another whole kettle of fish. In fact, I wonder about the legality, in the strictest sense, of the case swaps in general? ie, as we're exchanging beer for a consideration (other beer), it's not exactly "personal consumption". Yet another example of how the law lags behind the times. we might need to test a case in court or something!


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## drtomc (24/9/08)

Has anyone figured out what you need to do to sell the beer you brew? Is it complicated? I presume you have to get permits of some sort and then file quarterly BASs or something.

T.


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## MartinS (24/9/08)

drtomc said:


> Has anyone figured out what you need to do to sell the beer you brew? Is it complicated? I presume you have to get permits of some sort and then file quarterly BASs or something.



You need at least three things to sell your beer:
1. A DA with your local council. You can't normally do either of the other steps unless your local council is happy with you brewing commercially.

2. A Producers Licence from your state government (or whatever Victoria's equivalent licence is). They mainly care that you are a generally trustworthy person, and can act responsibly in the community (including only selling to people your license covers you for)

3. An Excise Licence from the ATO. They want to be sure that you can keep records, and will pay your weekly excise.

You pay your excise weekly, not quarterly. The licenses and approvals are a bit of a bitch, from what I hear. It's meant to be better down your way than up here, but you're unlikely to see much change out of a few tens of thousands of dollars.


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## Ducatiboy stu (24/9/08)

drtomc said:


> Has anyone figured out what you need to do to sell the beer you brew? Is it complicated? I presume you have to get permits of some sort and then file quarterly BASs or something.
> 
> T.


 This has been covered many many many times..

You need, in the following order 

Local gov approval for a brewery. This covers the building side of things

State gov liquor license to run a brewery.

ATO registration for your brewery to be able to sell your beer and make sure your are paying the correct excise.


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## Ducatiboy stu (24/9/08)

PostModern said:


> From the (brief and selective) reading I have done, they're OK (IANAL) as they're not distilled to get to that strength. The laws are phrased in terms of the production methods in place when they were written and are about taxation of commercial products. It's a good point tho, because it means although my Eisbock is not taxable, it might still be dodgy due to the concentration of alcohol. However, I think a slap on the wrist is the worst that would come of it in real life. If you tried to sell it, tho, there's another whole kettle of fish. In fact, I wonder about the legality, in the strictest sense, of the case swaps in general? ie, as we're exchanging beer for a consideration (other beer), it's not exactly "personal consumption". Yet another example of how the law lags behind the times. we might need to test a case in court or something!




Maybe if you didnt tell anyone your where making anything on the fringe of the law, then no-one would hassle you for it.. :icon_cheers:


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## Mercs Own (24/9/08)

drtomc said:


> Has anyone figured out what you need to do to sell the beer you brew? Is it complicated? I presume you have to get permits of some sort and then file quarterly BASs or something.
> 
> T.



You need a brewing licence - but to get that you need a brewery that meets guidelines including tax determination (calibrated) tanks, enviromental guidelines, waste management so on and so forth etc And they wont give you the brewery licence until they have seen the brewery. You need a pre retail licence so as to sell to retail outlets (that is not a hard one to get just a police check)and then you would need a general liquor licence but for that I think you need an outlet??? such as a cafe, resturant or a pub - meaning a capital investment not dissimilar to setting up the brewery.

In very general terms that kinda covers it. As for selling what you brew at home - there is no chance legally.

I thought the U Brew/brew on premises attracted a 3% excise on the beer brewed on premise?

I was typing this while Martins and Ducati stu posted?! :blink:


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## drtomc (24/9/08)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Maybe if you didnt tell anyone your where making anything on the fringe of the law, then no-one would hassle you for it.. :icon_cheers:



Well, indeed! But if it was simple and cheap to do it then I'd be very happy to go down that route. Sounds like it is both non-cheap and non-easy. I guess I'll stick to giving it away for birthday presents. 

T.


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## Mercs Own (24/9/08)

Or you can do what I and others are doing/have done - contract brew. Go to AIB/Mildura Theatre Brewery/Brew Boys or one of the other breweries doing it etc Take your recipe (and hope they make it the according to the years of hard work developing the recipe and to your wishes etc)

End product $32 - $35 per case inclusive of packaging and excise and 1000 cases of beer to sell. You need to pay transport to get it to where you will store it and then hope you can sell it all while it is at it's best. On top of storage costs if you are serious about selling it then you need a good distributor (an oxymoron perhaps???) who will charge you anywhere between $9 - $13 per case for the privilage of taking it around to there mates bottlos and hopefully getting the patrons interest via free beer tastings (got to lose some to gain some) and floggin it off to them.

In short it is neither simple, cheap nor a very profitable adventure. It is great to live the dream and one day I hope to make a success out of it but it is good to be aware of the truth of it.

Better just brew at home, impress you mates and their wives and enjoy. mmmm maybe I should listen to my own advice....damn dreams!


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## drtomc (24/9/08)

Mercs Own said:


> In short it is neither simple, cheap nor a very profitable adventure. It is great to live the dream and one day I hope to make a success out of it but it is good to be aware of the truth of it.



I was thinking quite differently - I had in mind merely to do occasional brews for friends/friends of friends, in a completely legal and above board way. Like I said, better to stick to birthday presents. 

T.


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## HoppingMad (24/9/08)

Is certainly no easy task to set up a smaller scale brewery. Take the examples of two Microbreweries here in Vic:

Mountain Goat - Went from a small operation in a rented garage off a house in South Yarra/Prahran, got a permit eventually but it took months and some fierce negotiation with neighbours, then wound up having to find bigger premises when their volumes got too high. Wound up sharing equipment at Grand Ridge (all the way out in Mirboo Nth which is on the way to Mt Baw Baw) when they were getting started. So some serious travel time between batches. Finally now have a schmick brewery in Richmond but has been a long haul.

RedHill Brewery - Struggled to get brewery up and running due to agricultural zoning of their rural property (more a council issue than a liquor licence issue I think). Grew Hops for several years to make use of the land then finally got their brewery through all the bureaucratic channels. The fact they were growing an item used in brewing helped their cause.

In otherwords, if you're going to do it, be prepared to get in the trenches and fight hard for it! :icon_cheers: 

Hopper.


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## PostModern (24/9/08)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Maybe if you didnt tell anyone your where making anything on the fringe of the law, then no-one would hassle you for it.. :icon_cheers:



It's already in the NSW case swap thread, so this is no news. I'd like to see the law tested, which is why I posted here. It's not like I'm making moonshine, it's just beer after all.


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## Wardhog (19/11/08)

A bit of thread necromancy here, but I don't seem to be able to find the right search terms and this looks like an appropriate thread.

What are the legalities concerning this situation?
I'm a committee member of a cricket club. I would like to brew a batch for a special occasion for serving to members of the cricket club at this special occasion held on club premises.
Can the club buy the ingredients (maybe funded through donations), give them to me to produce the beer which will then be served at this function?
Will the funded by donations part tip it into illegality?

The club already has a license to sell packaged liquor.


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## Fents (19/11/08)

if your not selling it, it shouldnt matter regardless of who pays for the ingredients.


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## PostModern (19/11/08)

Fents said:


> if your not selling it, it shouldnt matter regardless of who pays for the ingredients.



But can you give away beer on a licensed premises?

Wardhog, I'd be making an enquiry to your state's equivalent of the Office of Liquor, Gaming and Racing.


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## HoppingMad (19/11/08)

Tricky one. You already have a license to sell & serve on premise, so as long as you are doing it responsibly can't see how there you could be in breach of your licence. 

However the 'donations' could be seen as a sale - that's the tough one. 

Those Brew on premise guys (like Barley Corn Brewers) have to pay excise on their sales, and possibly a hold a producing licence? dunno? 

If you were going to go by the letter of the law, at the very least you might need to find out what the excise on your batch would be and factor that into the donation. 

Would reckon if you had to go to court you'd be safe, and wouldn't worry - but if you are concerned about it and know a solicitor with some spare time on their hands, get them to check it out for you (Victorian Liquor Licensing Acts and that stuff). Doesn't hurt to get an opinion.

Personally I wouldn't worry about it - just make sure there's no coppers on the team that don't like your beer and will want to bust you!

Hopper.


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## Effect (19/11/08)

I have heard of these sort of things going on.

My dad when he was young went to this party or something or other when he was younger.

It was at an unlicenced venue. They had beer, and it was for free. But if you wanted to get in, you had to buy a bag of peanuts.
















Peanuts at this venue cost $50


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## newguy (19/11/08)

Giving it away isn't really an issue (and that's what *I* would personally claim no matter where the beer or ingredients came from - it's mine and I'm generous). Just get the club to buy the ingredients. You donate your time to brew it. Technically it's the club's property. You're just......preparing......it. No one outside the club (and now AHB I guess  ) has to know where the beer came from. If anyone "official" inquires, say that "someone" (and you can't remember who, darn it) left the keg so you decided to help yourselves.

Then of course the club will have to replace the keg itself after it gets confiscated.


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## Carbonator (19/11/08)

I offered to donate the use of a boat for an employee "social club" outing. Someone mentioned insurance and the idea was "canned".

Obviously "responsible serving of alcohol" practices are employed, but I would talk to the insurance provider first, then the the liquor licensing authority. See if insurance covers home brew made to ISO home brew standards.


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## Wardhog (19/11/08)

Carbonator said:


> I offered to donate the use of a boat for an employee "social club" outing. Someone mentioned insurance and the idea was "canned".



Good point. I think I'll just forget it altogether.

Not worth trying to do anything for anyone in this litigious day and age.


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## peas_and_corn (19/11/08)

You can send me beer, and I won't sue you- promise!


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## Bribie G (19/11/08)

Next week, _Inshallah_, I'll be at a licenced club and everyone there will be turning up with home brew and passing it around on the premises (BABBS meeting). :icon_cheers:


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## MarkBastard (19/11/08)

Anyone know if kits have excise? What about fresh wort kits?

I'm guessing it has to have an alcohol percentage and not the 'potential' for an alcohol percentage to be taxed with excise? Just regular GST then?


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## HoppingMad (19/11/08)

I should add that I've been to a bunch of events, even one at a licensed bowls club in inner melb where kegs of homebrew was shared and no one gave a hoot. There was entry on the door, but it was purely an entry fee.

Even know of some microbrewers that used to charge for tastings at low key events long before (long before their licence was approved) in the name of 'product research'. This was on private property mind you.

If you flag your issue with the licensing authority be careful - don't give details of your club or timing of your event away or they may come out and haunt you if you decide to proceed with it. Simply call them up, raise the issue and be vague about the details. 

If you do find out anything, post it back here - I'm sure we've all been to a keg party or two. Would be interesting to see what they say and what they reckon our legal obligations would be.

Hopper.


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## Fermented (19/11/08)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Anyone know if kits have excise? What about fresh wort kits?
> 
> I'm guessing it has to have an alcohol percentage and not the 'potential' for an alcohol percentage to be taxed with excise? Just regular GST then?


There is no excise on these items as they fall outside the Act. Just good ole GST.

There are some interesting and beneficial GST issues that you might be able to think of provided that you can demonstrate a causal link between 'A' and 'B', but I won't go into that here. 

Cheers - Fermented.


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## dc59 (23/11/08)

I've still been wondering about whether it is legal for someone under age to produce alcohol.

As it turns out a student I tutor fermented dissolved glucose at school for science. Since than I've spoken to other science teachers and they said that its a fairly common experiment to do.

Noting that the supermarket sells kits without any age checking, I can only assume that there is no age limit on fermenting alcohol.

Anyone no anything more about this?


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## Beer&Kebab (23/11/08)

Wardhog said:


> Good point. I think I'll just forget it altogether.
> 
> Not worth trying to do anything for anyone in this litigious day and age.



"No good deed goes unpunished"


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## peas_and_corn (23/11/08)

Dravid said:


> I've still been wondering about whether it is legal for someone under age to produce alcohol.
> 
> As it turns out a student I tutor fermented dissolved glucose at school for science. Since than I've spoken to other science teachers and they said that its a fairly common experiment to do.
> 
> ...



In chem I had to distill alcohol, but we were forced to burn it after doing so- so I'd imagine it would be fine as long as they cannot access the final product.


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## newguy (25/11/08)

Dravid said:


> I've still been wondering about whether it is legal for someone under age to produce alcohol.
> 
> As it turns out a student I tutor fermented dissolved glucose at school for science. Since than I've spoken to other science teachers and they said that its a fairly common experiment to do.
> 
> ...



I imagine that it probably is against the law, but your question reminds me of a conversation I once had with a friend that owns a homebrew supply shop (and now a brewery). Technically, all the kits, ingredients, equipment, etc are not restricted at all. Anyone, of any age, could walk in and buy everything necessary to make beer or wine with no restrictions. My friend, however, made it his policy not to sell those things to anyone under the legal drinking age.

To be honest, if they were that desperate for alcohol they could walk into any grocery store and emerge 5 minutes later with everything they need to make alcohol at home. Not anything good tasting, but enough to do the job if you're not terribly picky.


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## HoppingMad (25/11/08)

newguy said:


> To be honest, if they were that desperate for alcohol they could walk into any grocery store and emerge 5 minutes later with everything they need to make alcohol at home. Not anything good tasting, but enough to do the job if you're not terribly picky.



Case in point here Link to article 

Mixing vanilla essence with lemon drink to get a buzz? Urggh!

Matter of time before you have to go to the bottleshop to get stuff to bake a cake? :lol: 

Hopper


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## Bribie G (25/11/08)

HoppingMad said:


> Case in point here Link to article
> 
> Mixing vanilla essence with lemon drink to get a buzz? Urggh!
> 
> ...



Vanilla used to be very popular, and Queen Essences voluntarily put the price up to over $5 to stop the 'abuse'. Going back ten or fifteen years you could buy a 250ml flask shaped bottle for about $3 and at about proof spirit strength that was a fifth of the price of an equivalent bottle of Bundy.

I have drunk it myself, many years ago when it was 90c a little bottle, not out of desperation but out of choice. A really top mix is a small vanilla essence tipped into a small Maccas vanilla thick shake and stirred (not shaken B) ). It's out there with Baitz Island cream, Baileys etc. and was a good way of getting a nice hit if you were on the way home from the shopping and didn't want the hassle of parking and going into a bottlo. Drive through Maccas, tip the bottle and :super: - Ingredients alcohol, vanilla bean extract, water, sugar. Pure as Lion Nathan.

If careful you can even drink it in Maccas with your burger - a new twist on BYO.


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## newguy (25/11/08)

The cheap alcoholic drink of choice for the poor here is either lysol or listerine. They're both mostly alcohol and both cheaper than buying beer/vodka/rye/whatever. Most stores will not sell either product if they suspect the person buying it is going to duck into the alley and chug it. Actually with lysol the common practice is to spray it on bread and eat that.

:icon_vomit:


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## Bribie G (25/11/08)

newguy said:


> The cheap alcoholic drink of choice for the poor here is either lysol or listerine. They're both mostly alcohol and both cheaper than buying beer/vodka/rye/whatever. Most stores will not sell either product if they suspect the person buying it is going to duck into the alley and chug it. Actually with lysol the common practice is to spray it on bread and eat that.
> 
> :icon_vomit:



In my sinful days before I met the current mrs I was going out (or more like staying in) with a recovering alcoholic lady. She was lovely, 15 years younger than me (lots of girls out there like older guys) and I still get a bit of a flutter whenever I remember her. One morning at 3 am she was throwing up violently in the bathroom, on the floor no less. She had drunk my entire supply of Listerine, the freshmint one in a HUGE bottle. h34r: Relationship didn't last.


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## HoppingMad (26/11/08)

Maybe we should start a section for making and distilling your own listerine :lol: 

Or would that be illegal?

Hopper.


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## newguy (26/11/08)

HoppingMad said:


> Maybe we should start a section for making and distilling your own listerine :lol:



Should create a class for our next competition - the listerine challenge. The challenge? To make it not taste like listerine.  I imagine a small bottle of essence from the HBS would help. Geez, wouldn't that be posh down on skid row.


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