# Methanol Production



## ivaanl (25/9/11)

Is there any trace amounts of methanol produced during fermentation, or even other types of alcohol such as propanol or butanol?


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## Silo Ted (25/9/11)

Do you think this required a new thread, or could your earlier Ethanol thread have been a better place? Clearly your questions are a continuation.

The majority of us make *beer *here, just to remind you.


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## NickB (25/9/11)

Sorry dude, there are forums that deal with 'water purification'. This is not one of them, and discussion is a breach of the forum rules.

Not trying to be rude, but take this discussion elsewhere before you're banned.

Cheers


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## ivaanl (25/9/11)

ivaanl said:


> Is there any trace amounts of methanol produced during fermentation, or even other types of alcohol such as propanol or butanol?



I should've rephrased the question more appropriately. I meant to ask is there trace amounts of methanol production when fermenting beer, hence why I posted it here. Perhaps I could've continued it on from my earlier post and referenced it to beer.


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## poppa joe (25/9/11)

Go to homedistiller.org Find your links...
Cheers
PJ


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## Silo Ted (25/9/11)

as painfully ill-informed as he is, he's not yet mentioned distillation. Just maybe he really does expect to make some high alc grog simply by fermenting a ton of sugar with turbo yeast.  

Mate, you have been told earlier, it will taste like shit. And if you do want to distill it, then it cant be discussed here ! 

Make some beer and then we'll chat


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## Filby (25/9/11)

ivaanl said:


> I should've rephrased the question more appropriately. I meant to ask is there trace amounts of methanol production when fermenting beer, hence why I posted it here. Perhaps I could've continued it on from my earlier post and referenced it to beer.




Yes.


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## ivaanl (25/9/11)

Silo Ted said:


> as painfully ill-informed as he is, he's not yet mentioned distillation. Just maybe he really does expect to make some high alc grog simply by fermenting a ton of sugar with turbo yeast.
> 
> Mate, you have been told earlier, it will taste like shit. And if you do want to distill it, then it cant be discussed here !
> 
> Make some beer and then we'll chat



This post is completely independent from my ethanol only post. My question on methanol has nothing to with distillation or what I am trying to achieve in the other post. I simply want to know whether or not there are small amounts of methanol (or other form of alcohol) produced when brewing beer.

P.S I only brew beer. My other thread is just an experiment, which got me thinking "is there methanol produced when fermenting beer".


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## Silo Ted (25/9/11)

Its just dawned on me. He expects to create home made solvents to be used in the production of narcotics ! Way off on purity, pal. And good luck with sourcing a fractionating column. Actually good luck not causing yourself some serious harm... whatever it is you are planning.

Moderators for the LOCK?


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## jasonharley (25/9/11)

Yeah.... bring in the stormtroopers!!!! 



5 eyes


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## Silo Ted (25/9/11)

Five Eyes Brewing Company said:


> Yeah.... bring in the stormtroopers!!!!









or....


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## Sammus (25/9/11)

can someone point to anything anywhere that says methanol is produced? It's an old wives tale like aluminium and alzheimers. Fermentation of sugar with yeast doesn't produce methanol. the end.


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## MarkBastard (25/9/11)

speak english or die


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## jasonharley (25/9/11)

Silo Ted said:


> or....



holy shitte .... by the way..... have to got the phone number for that hot trooping chick !!!!!!


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## felten (25/9/11)

Sammus said:


> can someone point to anything anywhere that says methanol is produced? It's an old wives tale like aluminium and alzheimers. Fermentation of sugar with yeast doesn't produce methanol. the end.


I'm pretty sure you can create methanol and higher alcohols when fermenting a sugar wash too hot, that's how people go blind drinking moonshine


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## Filby (25/9/11)

Sammus said:


> can someone point to anything anywhere that says methanol is produced? It's an old wives tale like aluminium and alzheimers. Fermentation of sugar with yeast doesn't produce methanol. the end.






felten said:


> I'm pretty sure you can create methanol and higher alcohols when fermenting a sugar wash too hot, that's how people go blind drinking moonshine




I suggest both of you do some research. Methanol is produced by the fermentation process in any sugar wash (grains, grapes, fruit, sucrose etc). It is only produced in a very small amount and during distillation is discarded as foreshots/heads. Any analysis of a alcoholic drink will show up trace amounts of methanol as well as many other alcohols.

Fil


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## Aces High (25/9/11)

Actually, there is methanol produced when you fement beer, if there wasn't you wouldn't get a hangover, it also produces acetone and numerous other higher alcohol.. in minimal amounts. Sugar washes will produce a similar amount of methanol to ethanol ratio. Fementing different fruits and other things will produce a higher methanol to ethanol ratio.

The "people go blind" thing with moonshine wasn't to do with the methanol it was actually related to the things people were adding to spirits during prohabition era. This is a common misunderstanding perpetuated by the authorities at the time which continues today


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## Filby (25/9/11)

Here's a good page I found that summarises the whole subject:

http://homedistiller.org/methanol.htm


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## Aces High (25/9/11)

Filby said:


> That is complete bullshit. Its in the range of 0.001% to 0.1% of the total alcohols produced.



Settle down filby, i'll rephrase that, sugar washes will produce a similar methanol to ethanol ratio as a standar beer wash. I didn't mean its a 50% methanol to 50% ethanol ratio... Now that would make for a serious hangover!


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## Feldon (25/9/11)

Aces High said:


> The "people go blind" thing with moonshine wasn't to do with the methanol it was actually related to the things people were adding to spirits during prohabition era. This is a common misunderstanding perpetuated by the authorities at the time which continues today



The "common misunderstanding" is that methanol does not cause blindness. It certainly can

History: The most significant toxic effects of methanol are optic nerve damage, metabolic acidosis and respiratory depression. Typically within 18 to 48 hours after ingestion, individuals develop nausea, abdominal pain, headache, and slowed breathing. This is accompanied by visual disturbances such as blurred or double vision, changes in color perception, constricted visual fields and complete blindness. 

Physical exam: Individuals may experience vision problems, including difficulty seeing clearly, and changes in their field of vision leading to eventual blindness. Individuals may also be fatigued, confused and in a stupor or coma. The abdomen may be tender when palpated, and the individual may experience seizures, cranial nerve palsy, shortness of breath, low blood pressure, slow heart rate, and decreased respirations.​(Source: www.mdguidelines.com/toxic-effects-methyl-alcohol)


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## Filby (25/9/11)

Aces High said:


> Settle down filby, i'll rephrase that, sugar washes will produce a similar methanol to ethanol ratio as a standar beer wash. I didn't mean its a 50% methanol to 50% ethanol ratio... Now that would make for a serious hangover!




Hehe sorry... I definitely read it as a 1:1 meth:eth production .



editeleted my previous post.


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## Aces High (25/9/11)

Feldon said:


> The "common misunderstanding" is that methanol does not cause blindness. It certainly can
> 
> History: The most significant toxic effects of methanol are optic nerve damage, metabolic acidosis and respiratory depression. Typically within 18 to 48 hours after ingestion, individuals develop nausea, abdominal pain, headache, and slowed breathing. This is accompanied by visual disturbances such as blurred or double vision, changes in color perception, constricted visual fields and complete blindness.
> 
> Physical exam: Individuals may experience vision problems, including difficulty seeing clearly, and changes in their field of vision leading to eventual blindness. Individuals may also be fatigued, confused and in a stupor or coma. The abdomen may be tender when palpated, and the individual may experience seizures, cranial nerve palsy, shortness of breath, low blood pressure, slow heart rate, and decreased respirations.​(Source: www.mdguidelines.com/toxic-effects-methyl-alcohol)



oops...seems like i was taking outa my ass on that last comment....i'll shut up now


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## poppa joe (25/9/11)

In distilling Methanol is produced between 56.5 to 64.7 deg.
Cheers
PJ


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## ivaanl (26/9/11)

Feldon said:


> The "common misunderstanding" is that methanol does not cause blindness. It certainly can




I don't think it's the methanol itself that has harmful effects. If you ingest methanol it is converted into formaldehyde then further into formic acid. I think its these two compounds that cause the CNS damage and 'blindness'.


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## Bribie G (26/9/11)

+1 for formaldehyde


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