# First all grain beer help



## SnailAle (25/8/17)

Gday guys,

I just bought myself a guten mash tun and want to do my first AG beer, mind you I've never made a beer before. Can anyone recommend or better yet direct me to a good first beer recipe to try?

I have no idea what's easy or hard but I do enjoy pales, IPA, Irish red ales, porters, pilsners, stouts etc. Pretty much anything that's not like a mainstream beer at your local pub.

Any suggestions or advice would be very helpful.

Thanks in advance all.


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## Hermies (25/8/17)

Look up DrSmurtos Golden Ale its the go to recipe for a beginner or anyone who likes a good beer . Remember one thing sanitise anything ,anything that touches your wort after the boil , also try and keep ale temps around 18 or 19 degrees this will stop unwanted phenols like green apple flavour .A good ale yeast is recommended like US-05 this a dry yeast but a good soldier .
What part of Aus are you in ? that is are you in Aus ?


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## 2cranky (25/8/17)

Hey Snail,
Buy the BeerSmith app. It's only a few bucks.
Search the recipes through the app and use filters: search all grain sort by rating. 
Pick what you like. 
Watch all the YouTube on setting up BeerSmith for your brew rig. 

- keep everything clean. Use sodium perc. Use starsan as well. 
- have fun.


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## SnailAle (25/8/17)

Thanks guys, 

I'm in Vic, heading to Melbourne tomorrow was going to pop into grain and grape and grab some stuff there. 

I'll look up drsmurtos beer and that app.


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## Danscraftbeer (25/8/17)

Cleanliness is the gods. Read as much as your heart desires. As above post on the two key sanitation chemicals.
Sodium percarbonate for cleaning and Phosphoric acid for sanitation.
As for styles and recipes the world is your oyster. Explore and search different styles to refine for your personal preferences.
Oh, and, drink in moderation of coarse.


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## SnailAle (28/8/17)

So i went to grain and grape on the weekend and grabbed some grain for a smurtos golden ale. 

Just a couple more questions, with an AG beer do I still need to add carbonation drops, is there a better option or with AG beers does it happen naturally? 

Also, I've got a guten which requires me to preset all the steps, when I'm sparging, what temp should I hold the wort at while the grain is being sparged? 

Lastly, still not sure about the mash out thing, coukd you technically argue that holding the wort at x temperature while fly sparging is kinda killing two birds with one stone? If that makes sense?


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## evoo4u (28/8/17)

Re carbonation drops - if you're bottling, you need to add some fermentable to kick off the secondary fermantation in the bottle, whether you're using extract brewing or all-grain brewing. The wort in the bottle needs some extra fermentabes for the yeast to chomp on. Yeah, you can use the carbonation drops if you wish, but I just use a teaspoon of sugar, which is cheaper, and for me, just as convenient.

Re the mashout - If I mash at, say, 64C, for 60', then at the completion (I have a 3V HERMS setup) I'll set my PID to raise the mash temp to 76C and hold, then sparge with hot water also at 76C, simply to maximise the extraction of all available sugars. Raising the temp at mashout is probably not a really crucial thing, but it does help to increase efficiency.


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## Hermies (28/8/17)

Hey Snail Ale when are you going to brew this beer ?


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## SnailAle (28/8/17)

Hermies said:


> Hey Snail Ale when are you going to brew this beer ?



Not sure, potentially after work one night this week but more than likely Saturday.


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## Rocker1986 (29/8/17)

AG is just a method of producing wort; it's actually the only method, extracts are done this way too but concentrated down into the syrup. Once it's been fermented it's beer just the same as beer produced from kits or extracts, so yes you will need some sugar in some form or another in the bottles for carbonation. 

An AG brew day takes about 4 - 6 hours so I'd be brewing it on Saturday if I was you. I don't know what your work hours are like but for a first attempt being rushed is the last thing you need.


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## laxation (29/8/17)

From what I've understood, mashout isn't really necessary - and you can get the same result by buying a bit more grain to start with. Is that true?
I haven't bothered with it, just trying to keep things simple..


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## mtb (29/8/17)

laxation said:


> From what I've understood, mashout isn't really necessary - and you can get the same result by buying a bit more grain to start with. Is that true?
> I haven't bothered with it, just trying to keep things simple..


One purpose of the mashout is to accelerate conversion of any remaining enzymes in the wort. If you do a 90min mash you're probably fine, but without an iodine test, you can't be sure. Might be worth doing a mashout in your next batch and seeing if you hit a higher OG.


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## Hermies (29/8/17)

When I first started all grain I used an esky and could never reach mash out temps and still produced award winning beer . Conversion of sugars is almost complete within 20 to 30 minutes for these modern day malts . I usually use a refractometer to check my mash conversion, OG and FG . Since doing it this way I have increased my efficiency in the brew house etc........Check out Qld Kev's post he sparges with cold water and check out Gash Slugs later videos on the Robobrew where he forgets to heat up sparge water and rinses the grains with cold water and his OG increases ...wtf .


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## SnailAle (29/8/17)

Hermies said:


> When I first started all grain I used an esky and could never reach mash out temps and still produced award winning beer . Conversion of sugars is almost complete within 20 to 30 minutes for these modern day malts . I usually use a refractometer to check my mash conversion, OG and FG . Since doing it this way I have increased my efficiency in the brew house etc........Check out Qld Kev's post he sparges with cold water and check out Gash Slugs later videos on the Robobrew where he forgets to heat up sparge water and rinses the grains with cold water and his OG increases ...wtf .


I guess if you think about it, washing sugars off grain can probably be done and with anything. I'm just a long way from being able to question the rules which is why I'm being reliant on you blokes! 

Another one i forgot to add, how long should i set aside for the sparge? Again because I have to preset the times and temps in my guten it'll all have to run concurrent so I'll need to plan in advance the time and volume.


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## Hermies (29/8/17)

Its not so much questioning the rules as it is finding what works for you , which comes down to trial and error .My first all grain day was a little nerve racking but I made it a little easier by writing down every little step even down to the tools that I was going to use . It was a little creatures clone man it turned out better than the original . Once you achieve mash out , fly sparging usually takes around an hour to get good efficiency out of your system . I have done it in less time but I ended up with poorer efficiency .


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## evoo4u (29/8/17)

> Another one i forgot to add, how long should i set aside for the sparge? Again because I have to preset the times and temps in my guten it'll all have to run concurrent so I'll need to plan in advance the time and volume.



I believe it's beneficial to sparge as slowly as possible, and for me (from memory - I've not actually timed it) this is about 12 to 15 minutes, sparging with around 22 litres heated water.


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## rossbaker (30/8/17)

I have a mate with a robo brew who starts ramping up to the boil as soon as he hoists the malt pipe for sparging. Seems to work well and saves time. You could even set your temp to just below boiling during the sparge in case it is taking you a bit longer than you thought.


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## Bribie G (30/8/17)

I haven't mashed out for years. After sparging, the enzymes reside in the wort anyway so they can do their work as you ramp up the temperature on the way to the boil. 

If you are bottling in brown homebrew PET bottles, CSR sugar cubes in the blue box are a fraction of the cost of carb lollies and The Universe has decreed that one cube will fit perfectly through the top of the bottle whilst giving a perfect dose and total consistency across a brew.


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## laxation (30/8/17)

Bribie G said:


> If you are bottling in brown homebrew PET bottles, CSR sugar cubes in the blue box are a fraction of the cost of carb lollies and The Universe has decreed that one cube will fit perfectly through the top of the bottle whilst giving a perfect dose and total consistency across a brew.


That's good to know...


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## SnailAle (12/9/17)

Can I ask follow on this. 

When my first beer has finished fermenting, say after consecutive days on the same FG, how long do I need to leave it in the fermenter before bottling? 

I assumed itd just be a couple of days for yeasties to settle down then leave in the bottle for a month or two but the more I read the more confusing it is as it seems to be very variable (days up to months).


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## laxation (12/9/17)

Once it is done fermenting, it's good to go into the bottles (assuming an ale and not a lager)

You can put it in the fridge for a few days (called a cold crash) to drop out the yeast etc. and clear it up a bit, but that isn't necessary.

Once it's in the bottle, it'll be carbed up and good to drink after a week or two, but will keep getting better for a while (a month is OK for reg beers, but for something like a 10% stout you could keep it for years)

Lagers have the lagering stage (second fermenter for a month or whatever, but colder) that isn't necessary for ales.


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## Rocker1986 (12/9/17)

A few days after FG is reached is generally recommended. You can bottle it straight away but it conditions quicker in the fermenter, so less time in the bottles before it's at its peak. Also the extra time gives more certainty that FG is indeed reached.

I employ a week long cold crash for my ales. They normally reach FG after 5-6 days, and another few days I drop the temp to 0°C and keg a week later. Without the cold crash they'd just be kegged instead of dropped to zero after the 9-10 days.

Sent from my Agora 4G+ using Aussie Home Brewer mobile app


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## 2cranky (12/9/17)

For Ales I've been fermenting for 3 days at 18c 
then ramping up 0.5c every 12 hours to 21c 
then dry hoping for 3 days at 21c 
on the 4th day drop to 14c 
then drop to 5c Gel about 12hours later.
keg the day after.
just under 2 weeks total.
All my brews seem to be mostly done after 3 days, at least gravity wise. They still make CO2 but I don't see any drop in gravity.


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## laxation (12/9/17)

whats the purpose behind ramping up the temp like that?


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## SnailAle (12/9/17)

Please don't mention kegs, my wife has said I've spent enough money on gear for a while and talk of this stuff will get me a few nights in the spare room when I buy one


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## Hermies (12/9/17)

Correct me if I am wrong .It will be a faster ferment by ramping up the temp.Just got to be carefull about unwanted flavours .


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## Hermies (12/9/17)

SnailAle said:


> Please don't mention kegs, my wife has said I've spent enough money on gear for a while and talk of this stuff will get me a few nights in the spare room when I buy one


Hahahahahahaa I hope you have deep pockets and an understanding wife . Maybe make a brew that she would like


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## Tony121 (12/9/17)

laxation said:


> whats the purpose behind ramping up the temp like that?


It encourages the yeast finish the job. 

The idea is to ramp a couple of degrees on the last 3rd of ferment as it is slowing down to keep it going that last little bit.


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## 2cranky (12/9/17)

I used to sit and wait it out but a few of my brew just stopped. so now I ramp it up - morning and night. finishes quicker and more reliably.
I drop it down in 2 stages just to give the dry hopping the extra time. maybe its not needed.


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## Rocker1986 (12/9/17)

laxation said:


> whats the purpose behind ramping up the temp like that?


As the others have said. I don't bother doing it in steps every 12 hours though, I don't really see the point. I just raise the temp 3C on the controller and let the brew rise by itself. It stays up there until the cold crash. You shouldn't get any off flavors doing this, for one the temp rise isn't a lot and also it's done towards the end of the fermentation. Most off flavors are generated by beginning the fermentation too high.


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## 2cranky (12/9/17)

SnailAle said:


> Please don't mention kegs, my wife has said I've spent enough money on gear for a while and talk of this stuff will get me a few nights in the spare room when I buy one


it will free up quality family time instead of washing bottles.


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## 2cranky (12/9/17)

Rocker1986 said:


> As the others have said. I don't bother doing it in steps every 12 hours though, I don't really see the point. I just raise the temp 3C on the controller and let the brew rise by itself. It stays up there until the cold crash.


I use an upright freezer if i go from 18 to 21 it will be there in an hour! don't know if that is good.
ramping works for me.


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## SnailAle (12/9/17)

Hermies said:


> Hahahahahahaa I hope you have deep pockets and an understanding wife . Maybe make a brew that she would like


 

Haha yeah she's usually pretty good, we're trying for our first pup at the moment so she's keen to squirrel away a bit. 
She asked at lunch if I could make her a cider, that's justification enough for me to get some more bottles and another fermenter.


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## evoo4u (12/9/17)

SnailAle said:


> Can I ask follow on this.
> 
> When my first beer has finished fermenting, say after consecutive days on the same FG, how long do I need to leave it in the fermenter before bottling?
> 
> I assumed itd just be a couple of days for yeasties to settle down then leave in the bottle for a month or two but the more I read the more confusing it is as it seems to be very variable (days up to months).



Some HB-ers 'cold-crash' the brew before bottling. That is dropping the temp down to just above freezing for a couple of days to help the yeast drop out and clarify the beer before bottling. I usually wait for the finished FG to be steady for 3 or 4 days, then bottle-o. (As long as the FG is reasonable of course). As a rule of thumb, yeasts attenuate down to about 25% of the OG. So a wort at 1.048 OG would come down to around 1.012. However if you allowed an unwanted stray wild yeast into the FV, sometimes they can keep on chomping after the wanted yeast has stopped, leading to bottle bombs, or at best, gushers.

As for secondary fermentation, generally three weeks is the minimum time in the bottle before cracking the top and enjoying.

Cheers!


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## laxation (12/9/17)

Hermies said:


> Hahahahahahaa I hope you have deep pockets and an understanding wife . Maybe make a brew that she would like


if anyone knows how to make a strawberry cider that is 90% sugar lmk...


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## Rocker1986 (12/9/17)

2cranky said:


> I use an upright freezer if i go from 18 to 21 it will be there in an hour! don't know if that is good.
> ramping works for me.


Why? If the freezer is off without any artificial heat then the brew would just rise naturally. It normally takes mine about 24 hours to get up there.


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## 2cranky (12/9/17)

Rocker1986 said:


> Why? If the freezer is off without any artificial heat then the brew would just rise naturally. It normally takes mine about 24 hours to get up there.


Sorry I got heat as well, but yeah you are right.
I'm OCD okay!

if i do it 0.5c in morning its pushing the upper limit of the controller by the time i turn it up again at night.


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## Rocker1986 (12/9/17)

Well in that case you have two options. Carry on as is or unplug the heater during the ramp up. Lol. I don't really need heating where I am so yeah no issue for me to just let the fermentation heat bring it up.


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## 2cranky (12/9/17)

Rocker1986 said:


> Well in that case you have two options. Carry on as is or unplug the heater during the ramp up. Lol. I don't really need heating where I am so yeah no issue for me to just let the fermentation heat bring it up.


hey - like I said, it works for me. It's not an issue, it's how I make my beer. I'm happy with my process.


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## Rocker1986 (12/9/17)

2cranky said:


> hey - like I said, it works for me. It's not an issue, it's how I make my beer. I'm happy with my process.


I wasn't having a go, sorry if it came across that way, all good mate


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## 2cranky (12/9/17)

no worries
just taking the piss.


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## SnailAle (13/9/17)

Another question guys, 

I noticed the bubbling had really backed off as of yesterday I know it's not quite done but this morning I decided to take an sg reading. Turns out it isn't quite there. But then I had a taste and the malt and bitterness is definitely there but there's not a lot of hoppiness on the palate. I've been smelling it as it's bubbled out of the fermenter and that's been like perfume. Just wondering, will the hoppy flavour come through more after its done or should I consider dry hopping to add a bit more? And if I do add it, do I simply chuck the pellets into the fermenter or do I need a muslin bag or something in thete for them?

I don't have it written down but I believe for my 20 litre batch I did 20gm Amarillo at 60 minutes and 40 gm Amarillo at flame out. The zero minute addition I added and then immediately began to chill. Not sure if that's impacted on it somehow. 

Thanks again.


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## wereprawn (13/9/17)

SnailAle said:


> Another question guys,
> 
> I noticed the bubbling had really backed off as of yesterday I know it's not quite done but this morning I decided to take an sg reading. Turns out it isn't quite there. But then I had a taste and the malt and bitterness is definitely there but there's not a lot of hoppiness on the palate. I've been smelling it as it's bubbled out of the fermenter and that's been like perfume. Just wondering, will the hoppy flavour come through more after its done or should I consider dry hopping to add a bit more? And if I do add it, do I simply chuck the pellets into the fermenter or do I need a muslin bag or something in thete for them?
> 
> ...


The late hops will often shine through when the yeast drops out and the beer has conditioned. If you want to, you can just throw your dry hop in to swim free if you have the ability to cold crash. If not, use a hop sock or similar to contain them .


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## SnailAle (13/9/17)

Righto, so maybe I'm better off just leaving it as is for now? I think I might be able to fit the fermenter in my bar fridge so I might have a go at cold crashing.


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## wereprawn (13/9/17)

SnailAle said:


> Righto, so maybe I'm better off just leaving it as is for now? I think I might be able to fit the fermenter in my bar fridge so I might have a go at cold crashing.


You're going to make an enjoyable beer anyway and if you feel you need more hoppy goodness for the next one, you can go from there. Really depends on personal taste.


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## SnailAle (18/9/17)

I've got a question on my second AG beer now but thought if any other newbs are checking this thread it'd help to have as many questions here as I can. 

So I woke up this morning and found my hefeweizen bubbling out the top of the airlock. 

I had it to 20 litres in a 30 litre fermenter so headspace seems ok, I pitched the yeast (danstar Munich classic) at the recommended rate and it was only about 17 deg C which from what I read is on the lower side of ideal. 

Not sure what's causing this, about to head off to work and it still hasn't settled down. Could it be contamination from another yeast or something that's got in there? Really hoping not because I went crazy with that no rinse sanitizer! 

Any ideas


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## manticle (18/9/17)

Typical of wheat yeasts. Wait till you try wyeast 3068.
Clean it up, spray some sanitiser, relax.


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## warra48 (18/9/17)

Normal behaviour for a wheatie. Common recommendation is for headspace equal to batch volume, so 20 litres in a 30 litre fermenter will blow out. I use a large blowoff tube, into a 2 litre bottle which sits in a bucket to catch the overflow again. It's either that, or a big cleanup job.


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