# Flaked Rice



## therook (3/1/08)

G'day everyone,

I'm about to do a Cream Ale and have read what i can find on the forum. Some people use Flaked Rice and after listening to Jami show he uses plain old table sugar. What is the advantage of one over the other, all they are both doing i think is upping the alcohol volume and drying it out more or does the flaked rice add some flavour.

Happy new year everyone

Rook


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## PostModern (3/1/08)

Spooky. I was just reading some Cream Ale recipes on Brew Monkeys.
I was going to use either freshly boiled rice to step up a mash or use cornflakes.


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## Kai (3/1/08)

I think flaked rice does add flavour, but it's fairly subtle. I would expect to pick it in a cream ale at 10-20% with no other adjunct though.

Myself, I like to brew cream ales and classic american pilsners with 10% flaked rice and 10% flaked maize. Dries the beer right out and gives it a wonderful corny flavour and smooth texture.


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## PostModern (3/1/08)

I don't use many cereal adjuncts, so if this is a stupid question, let me know, k? Is there any difference between flaked ingredients and their supermarket counterparts? ie, would boiled rice give the same effect as flaked rice? Flaked rice is just steamed then rolled and dried, isn't it? Is there some kind of caramelisation going on in the drying process?

Secondly, brekky cereal cornflakes, apart from the salt, DME, etc are basically "flaked maize" aren't they? Can they just be chucked in the mash?

Sorry for hijacking, therook... :\


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## /// (3/1/08)

Never had flavour from rice but have had from maize. PMo - used flaked rice in the Ninny.

The rice i find gives a massive thick white head mostly and sugar is as per normal. 

Not sure about cornflakes as maize is hard to get. The rest is handling, flaked rice is easier than boiling up a kilo etc, and is easy to use.

Scotty


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## geoffi (3/1/08)

PostModern said:


> Secondly, brekky cereal cornflakes, apart from the salt, DME, etc are basically "flaked maize" aren't they? Can they just be chucked in the mash?
> 
> Sorry for hijacking, therook... :\




I think you'll find there's a shitload of salt in there. It's needed to balance the shitload of sugar that keeps 'em crisp for as long as possible before the milk turns it into baby food.

I heard somewhere there's more salt in a bowl of cornflakes than in a bowl of seawater. Maybe apocraphal...

Dry-popped corn is my maize of choice.


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## therook (4/1/08)

Thanks for the reply's everyone.

Rook


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## Ross (4/1/08)

PostModern said:


> I don't use many cereal adjuncts, so if this is a stupid question, let me know, k? Is there any difference between flaked ingredients and their supermarket counterparts? ie, would boiled rice give the same effect as flaked rice? Flaked rice is just steamed then rolled and dried, isn't it? Is there some kind of caramelisation going on in the drying process?
> 
> Secondly, brekky cereal cornflakes, apart from the salt, DME, etc are basically "flaked maize" aren't they? Can they just be chucked in the mash?
> 
> Sorry for hijacking, therook... :\



PoMo,

Boiled/steamed rice will work just as well as flaked rice & allows you to add a few other little twists, like using Jasmine rice for instance. I use flaked rice, but purely for convenience. I wouldn't use corn bases cereal for the same reasons mentioned by Geoffi, generally coated in all sorts of things. Dry popped corn would work equally well, but again I use flaked Maize for convenience.

Edit: In answer to your question Rook, the rice seems to acentuate the hops & gives a dryness that you do not get by adding sugar. I'm not sure if this is a rice flavour as such, but it definately gives a different final beer.

Cheers Ross


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## Asher (4/1/08)

"Powa" Rice flakes.... Just melt away in the mash


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## Goat (4/1/08)

Sorry for going O/T a bit, but what sort of percentages of rice do you usually use to get those beautiful light lagers Asher ?


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## Asher (4/1/08)

Around 15% powa rice in my rice lager

Have made a 35% rice Happoshu before - May be the next big thing to come from the Junctyard!! A (secret Himalayan berry) flavoured Happoshu! pink beer for the ladies...
May work as a cool new belgian spice also. Love to say I thought of it first... but Springboard Ale from the New Belgium Brewing has it in

Enough cryptic OT posting for now

Asher


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## wessmith (4/1/08)

Goat said:


> Sorry for going O/T a bit, but what sort of percentages of rice do you usually use to get those beautiful light lagers Asher ?



The cheaper Asian beers use as much as 40% "broken rice" (ie reject grains which are very cheap) as an adjunct by weight. Some of the better ones, a little less.

I remember Phil Yates and his celebrated rice lager on HBD circa 2000, had around 20% boiled rice. Poor Phil developed the brew to a point where in a back-to-back tasting with Bud, he realised he had managed to brew a slightly better Bud!. He was demoralised to the point of moving on to wheat beers.

Wes


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## Fatgodzilla (4/1/08)

wessmith said:


> The cheaper Asian beers use as much as 40% "broken rice" (ie reject grains which are very cheap) as an adjunct by weight. Some of the better ones, a little less.
> Wes





> Boiled/steamed rice will work just as well as flaked rice & allows you to add a few other little twists, like using Jasmine rice for instance


.

Quickly, how do we prepare the rice and what are we using (the excessive starch for instance ?) Got a rice steamer but must rinse/ soak excess starches away before cooking and eating. So what do we do :huh:


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## Ross (4/1/08)

Fatgodzilla said:


> .
> 
> Quickly, how do we prepare the rice and what are we using (the excessive starch for instance ?) Got a rice steamer but must rinse/ soak excess starches away before cooking and eating. So what do we do :huh:




Mashing turns starches into sugars  ......chuck it all in.

cheers Ross


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## Fatgodzilla (4/1/08)

Ross said:


> Mashing turns starches into sugars  ......chuck it all in.
> 
> cheers Ross



So that's UNCOOKED rice into the mash. Or cooked rice ? With the starch / glue from the boil ?

Or chuck UNCOOKED rice into the boil - that makes sense.


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## tangent (4/1/08)

Do you have a grasp of the mashing process?
Starches into sugars in the mash, protein coagulation in the boil.
Don't throw rice into the boil. Mash it with the malt. Cooked or uncooked isn't really an issue, both will work to a degree.


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## PostModern (4/1/08)

tangent said:


> Cooked or uncooked isn't really an issue, both will work to a degree.



I was led to believe that cooking the rice prior to mashing was required, otherwise most of the rice starches are inaccessible to the amylase.
Flaked rice is cooked, the starches gelatinised and nice and fluffy and open to the enzymes.


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## wessmith (4/1/08)

PostModern said:


> I was led to believe that cooking the rice prior to mashing was required, otherwise most of the rice starches are inaccessible to the amylase.
> Flaked rice is cooked, the starches gelatinised and nice and fluffy and open to the enzymes.



Your absolutely right PM, raw rice MUST be pre-gelatinised. That will take around 80C with the same precautions as cooking rice - ie make sure it doesnt catch on the bottom of the cooking vessel. Also, keep a note of the water used and include that volume in your total water calculations.

Pre-rinsing the rice is advisable to get rid of the talc that everybody seems to think is "surplus" starch. Its added (the talc) in the dehusking process to "lubricate" the rice kernel as the hull is stripped off.

Wes


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## Fatgodzilla (4/1/08)

wessmith said:


> Your absolutely right PM, raw rice MUST be pre-gelatinised. That will take around 80C with the same precautions as cooking rice - ie make sure it doesnt catch on the bottom of the cooking vessel. Also, keep a note of the water used and include that volume in your total water calculations.
> 
> Pre-rinsing the rice is advisable to get rid of the talc that everybody seems to think is "surplus" starch. Its added (the talc) in the dehusking process to "lubricate" the rice kernel as the hull is stripped off.
> 
> Wes




Thanks, wes, you just about answered the question.

So. Have I got this right ?

1. Wash raw rice until clear to remove unwanted talc.

2. Cook rice (either boil or in rice cooker). Absorption method looks the go. Best to over cook until approaching mushy level (gelatinised?)

2. Add cooked rice to mash, taking care to record water content in calculations.

Simple as all that (!?!)

If so, why didn't someone say so !


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## therook (4/1/08)

Fatgodzilla said:


> Thanks, wes, you just about answered the question.
> 
> So. Have I got this right ?
> 
> ...




Save the hassle Fats and buy Flaked Rice  

Rook


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## Asher (4/1/08)

A little method I use when adding raw white rice to the mash is:

Firstly - Work out my desired mash temp & water ratio/temp NOT including the rice.

Then separately boil the rice until it goes gluggy and add water to bring to a similar consistency to the mash (can be done on the stove the night before) then adjust temperature by either reheating or cooling to the desired Mash temp... 

As you dough in you should be hitting your desired temp rest without the rice - Then just chuck the rice in already at desired temp.

Simple

Just realise I've been striving to make the perfect Bavaria !!! Keeps the boys away from the good stuff


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## Goat (4/1/08)

The answer to you last question Fatgodzzilla is that Wessmith is very good at clarifying issues - one poster who is always worth reading !

I had no idea that stuff I rinse off rice was Talc !


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## PostModern (4/1/08)

Goat said:


> I had no idea that stuff I rinse off rice was Talc !



Only if you have "Polished" rice, which I don't think Australian rice producers do. The grains will appear quite shiny if it is. According to the wikipedia it could also be glucose or starch or some other edible powder. So it's probably best to wash it regardless. In fact, I think I'll make it policy in my house from now on.


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## Wrenny (4/1/08)

I thought you needed to bust up the cells as well ie mush it up or flatten it useing a rolling pin.

I just use flaked rice though.


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## therook (4/1/08)

One more question chaps, my temp version of Beersmith doesn't have Flaked Rice as an alternative, if i was to add it what would i put its potential S.G as?

Rook


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## wessmith (4/1/08)

therook said:


> One more question chaps, my temp version of Beersmith doesn't have Flaked Rice as an alternative, if i was to add it what would i put its potential S.G as?
> 
> Rook



Rook, Promash gives extract potential for flaked at 81 - 82% and solid grains (gelatinised) 85 - 86%. I didnt do the SG potentail as it is in that silly pppg US format.

Wes


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## SJW (4/1/08)

> One more question chaps, my temp version of Beersmith doesn't have Flaked Rice as an alternative, if i was to add it what would i put its potential S.G as?



1.032 bud.


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## tangent (4/1/08)

for the record, i've always used the rice cooker because it's easy.
i had read on here someone saying that gel temps are within the mashing range but stand to be corrected.


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## Ross (4/1/08)

Fatgodzilla said:


> Simple as all that (!?!)
> 
> If so, why didn't someone say so !



Thought I had... I told you to use boiled/steamed rice & told you to put it all in  

Cheers Ross


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## PostModern (4/1/08)

tangent said:


> for the record, i've always used the rice cooker because it's easy.
> i had read on here someone saying that gel temps are within the mashing range but stand to be corrected.



You were thinking of oats maybe?


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## gava (26/3/10)

thought I'd bring this back from 2008.. Im looking to do some lagers that have some rice in the recipe.
Where do you get rice hulls? and if your using just boilded/steamed rice how to you convert rice hull values in beersmith to boilded steamed?


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## marksfish (26/3/10)

rice hulls are the husk of the grain and are used to make the lautering of wheat beers easy, if you plan to use rice in a lager you need to pre-boil to gelatinise it and on beersmith i just use flaked rice instead.


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## gava (26/3/10)

marksfish said:


> rice hulls are the husk of the grain and are used to make the lautering of wheat beers easy, if you plan to use rice in a lager you need to pre-boil to gelatinise it and on beersmith i just use flaked rice instead.


You choose Flaked rice in beersmith for when your using Boilded Rice in your recipe? or you use flaked rice all together?

edit: is the volume pre or post boil/steam weight also?


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## marksfish (26/3/10)

i use white rice with the weight on a dry basis and just use the flaked rice in the add grains section due to my poor computer skills


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