# What Size Home Brewery Would You Buy?



## BrissyBrew (28/5/07)

NOTE the above sizes represent the capacity (full to the brim) of the Kettle. 


I am interested in designing making and selling kettles and also in the future a complete 3 vessel system. So the magic question is what size are people willing to pay for? Obviously most people would not knock back a few hecta litre systems arriving for free but I am interested in what you would purchase.

An assumption of price would be your paying by the litre, eg twice as big twice the cost, which is probably not far off reality once you factor in shipping costs, big bulky shinny things are costly to ship.


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## SpillsMostOfIt (28/5/07)

I guess there is a relationship between all the vessels in the brewery that somehow dictates the size of everything based on which bit you buy first(?).

I brew 24 litre batches because that fits into a "20litre" jerry and gives me 23litres into my Bunnings fermenter. Everything just works sizewise.

Now, I am thinking of brewing smaller batches and am naturally thinking of sizes based on my fleet of small fermenters (15/17litre cubes). I am probably going to get a 20litre vessel.

I have occassionally thought about doing a *big* batch (my big boiler is 75litre), so I could get two fermenters' (or two cubes) worth.

If I was looking for a brand new brewery system, I would probably start looking at what I was going to use as my fermenters.

So, I don't think I've given you an answer, but I hope I've provided some insight into how I would go about determining size...


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## Ross (28/5/07)

I chose 100L but i guess a 75L is all I would require to do double batches, as the 50l kettle I curently use is just that tiny bit too small.

Cheers Ross


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## Haydo (28/5/07)

I always brew double batches so I'd go for around the 75 litre mark as well, just about right for 50 litre batches without having to be on the constant lookout for boilovers. For me, any bigger than this and getting the fermentor into the fridge becomes a hassle and hard to get a good variety of beer on tap without storing for long periods.


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## Thirsty Boy (28/5/07)

I voted 100, but would probably go with a 75 if it was there.

That would allow a 2 corny keg batch and a 120min boil, but wouldn't be ridiculously over large for my standard 22.5litre 90min boil batch.

Thirsty


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## Fents (28/5/07)

I would choose 75litre too if there was an option. Just seems perfect for single or double batch's.


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## PMyers (28/5/07)

Ross said:


> I chose 100L but i guess a 75L is all I would require to do double batches, as the 50l kettle I curently use is just that tiny bit too small.
> 
> Cheers Ross


Don't bet on it Ross. I routinely do double batches with my 75 litre kettle (actually 1 and 1/2 kegs, cut and welded together) and I quite often find that even 25 litres of head space is not enough to quell those damned boilovers! I would definately choose a 100 litre boiler for those 50 litre batches - just to be sure.

Cheers,
PMyers

:chug:


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## Asher (28/5/07)

I went with a 70 litre pot... 6 months later I'm kicking myself I didn't get the 100 litre one.


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## Bobby (28/5/07)

PMyers said:


> Don't bet on it Ross. I routinely do double batches with my 75 litre kettle (actually 1 and 1/2 kegs, cut and welded together) and I quite often find that even 25 litres of head space is not enough to quell those damned boilovers! I would definately choose a 100 litre boiler for those 50 litre batches - just to be sure.
> 
> Cheers,
> PMyers
> ...



I think the diameter of the pot has alot to do with this - kegs are pretty narrow.


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## johnno (28/5/07)

Ii would love a 200 litre boiler and the setup to support it. 

Lovely big batches. Would only need too brew once a month then.

johnno


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## willanth (28/5/07)

I am purchasing a set of three 180 liter stainless tanks for my system. I would love to see some large kettles on the market for those of us that need a mash tun, lauter tun, and kettle for intermediate size batches. 

Cheers,
Will


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## lokpikn (28/5/07)

I voted for the 50ltr but i use a 75ltr for my boil pot and a 50 ltr for my hlt.

I like to make 40 to 50ltr and have not yet had a boil over on the 75ltr and hears hopping i never do.


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## craig maher (28/5/07)

I voted 100 - i have a 60 litre s/s pot ATM and its just that bit to small.
I reckon 100 would be about perfect :beer:


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## Doogiechap (28/5/07)

There is a bit of a theme running here. I voted 100l to solve my double batch boilovers in my 50l pot. Interesting to hear that the 70l dosen't cut it Asher. What volume do you start with when boiling ?
Cheers
Doug


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## bugwan (28/5/07)

I will be interested to see the prices. G&G in Melbourne have a 'turn-key' rig for $3,670 - it's a Herms though.

I'm really wondering what the target market would be though? Most of us here have been AG brewing for a while, so are prepared to step up to (or consider) the double-batch stage. I'd think that people buying a turn-key AG rig would be those partial brewers with lots of cash who don't want to mess around building their own. Would they be wanting a 100L system?

I'd love 100L volume, but I'd guess (operative word!) that most pre-built AG rig purchases would go smaller.

My $0.02 anyway h34r:


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## tangent (28/5/07)

i want 150L batches so i voted for 200L kettle


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## Duff (28/5/07)

I went 100L. Eventually I'd like 50L kegs in my setup so a 100L system would make this a breeze, even 75L.


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## Chris (28/5/07)

Hmmm.
Bugwan certainly has a point.
I currently have a home made 50lt unit thats fine for upto 30lt. I voted for 100lt because I asked myself, If I forked out for a prefabbed unit (which wouldnt get past the minister of finance), I'd bloody want something bigger.
The fact that G&G has a turn key herms unit for ~$3.5k shows there may be an opening in the $500 to $2000 bracket. Maybe a 50-70 lt kettle three tier system with a mashmaster temp controlled electric HLT, supply your own 30-50 lt esky which you fit with the mashmaster manifold kit or false bottom, then a nasa fired kettle which feeds through a mashmaster chiller. 
You could batch sparge, flysparge, infusion step and decoct, just youd have to work out strike water temps, and I cant see it even costing half the G&G unit, especially if you didnt go overboard with fussy s/s part.
My 5c


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## Josh (28/5/07)

100L would make double batches a breeze.


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## dicko (28/5/07)

I selected 100L.
I do 50L batches and I use 90 litre kettle and a 90 litre HLT.
I have a 60 litre fermenter or I sometimes use two 30 litre fermenters and split the batch.
90 litre is ideal for 50 to 55 litre batches and I have never had a boil over
Cheers


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## sluggerdog (28/5/07)

I do 20 litre batches, would love to do 4 batches at once, I can do doubles now in a 50 litre so I guess I could do 4 batches per go in a 100 litre, would like it to be 110-120 just to be sure though.


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## Tony (28/5/07)

I voted 100 liters as i do 50 liter batches. 

I use an old 18 gallon (68 liter keg) and its big enough but some more room would be nice.

i have to stir in the foam for a minuite or so when it comes to the boil. if i miss it........ well we all know about the mess it makes.

cheers


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## InCider (28/5/07)

Who was I kidding voting for 100L?

I could go to bunnings for garbage bins and then get a litre of bleach and still have change from $30.

I AM KIT AND KILO!

As you can tell I have a 'kit' on my shoulder.


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## sqyre (28/5/07)

InCider said:


> Who was I kidding voting for 100L?
> 
> I could go to bunnings for garbage bins and then get a litre of bleach and still have change from $30.
> 
> ...



dude, go the 160 litre resealable plastic barrels like i used to use...

well i used 5 of them actually.. B) thats a bout 700litres of K+K....

shame i tipped it all out once i went AG  





Oh yeh 100 litre for me...but 200 would be cool...hmmm.. i could start using the barrels again..

A brew day every 2 months??? but what a brew day... 

Sqyre...


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## Tony (28/5/07)

hahaha i do that too squire........ 2 x 50 liter batches about every 1.5 to 2 months.

I dont get much time to brew so i make the most of it.

cheers


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## sqyre (28/5/07)

Tony said:


> hahaha i do that too squire........ 2 x 50 liter batches about every 1.5 to 2 months.
> 
> I dont get much time to brew so i make the most of it.
> 
> cheers



It must be something about blokes with lovely smiles...


(although i prefer the term dentaly challenged)
Sqyre....


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## Keifer (28/5/07)

Defo the way im heading, i will combine my 2x50l kegs into a 100l HLT, 55l esky mash tun then a big ass boiler. Havn't been brewing much lately, and if i could do 4or5 x 25 litre batches in one day, i would be very happy.

So i voted 200L


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## Tony (28/5/07)

click on my name and you will see me. Im multi coloured at a B&S ball 

and full of rum 

cheers


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## enoch (28/5/07)

100 would be good. I currently do 45 litres in a 70+ litre bucket of death. Have done as much 60 litres but its pretty hairy.
For Brissy's purposes though I wil go aluminium unless the 100 litre bling thing thing is less than about $150 which, unless brissy is santa, means it'll be ali for me.


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## jjeffrey (28/5/07)

I built my 75L kettle to be flexible for brews anywhere bw 20 and 65L. Personally, I will punch out a 30L batch, but love the ability to push out up to 65L. It's like this: if I can keg I'll fill whatever's free, up to 65L, but if I have to bottle I really couldn't be bothered doing more than 30L in a boil. KK to AG converts will be around the 25L mark, but once you pop you can't stop. This means that you always want more capacity than what you got but even if you get it you may not use it. 

I'm not sure your survey is accurate on this forum: most people here will say big big big is best, but the same people will built their own shit because they are into it. If you search "kettles" you will find there is a big call for people just trying to boil a proper batch without having to use a huge pot or steal a keg and alter it. These are your 25L batchers- many of whom might be a bit intimidated to post amounst the asteamed here. I would guess this is may turn out to be your main market.

If you wanna sell SS to home brewers, you got to be able to give them something they want that they won't do themselves, but you also gotta be able to do it without sending them broke. In the same vein you also need to give them room for expansion- but without having to sacrifice their eldest. Obviously, 75L rings a chord.

100-200L? How many of you wankers spend hours trying to find a $5 fitting? Homebrewers are tight-arses by nature that talk up their own kits. A home brewer will combine his missus's stocking with an old paint can and a garbage bin to make good brew BECAUSE HE CAN. Be careful how you judge a market here- I mean really, a large portion on this thread have talked about purely about plastic buckets (not that there is anything wrong with that- it's cheap and works, but that's my point).


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## jjeffrey (28/5/07)

By "wanker" I meant "me" and assumed "everybody", of course.


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## Lukes (29/5/07)

I voted 200ltr
I already have gone to 60 Ltr brews = 3 corny kegs and only brewing monthly.

- Luke


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## Belgrave Brewer (29/5/07)

At the moment, I'm brewing 23L batches. My AG equipment should be able to handle 46L batches, but I have not given that a go yet. I'm still working on a recipe I want to step up to 46L with. I have a 50L Kettle so it will be tight and will need to add water to the liquor after the boil. 

So, 75L seems to be the size I'd be interested in as well, or an equivalent size to get 46L in the fermentors without adding water after the boil.

BB


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## NRB (31/5/07)

100L


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## crozdog (31/5/07)

Guys, 
kettle size is one think, but in my experience, HLT size is just as critical - especially when batch sparging.

Here are some of my observations:
1/. I use a for my "regular" brew days & find that the issue can be waiting for the sparge water to heat up unless I use hot water to refill the HLT after mashing in (this depends on the batch size obviously).

2/. I have a 200l monsta mash tun & a 180l kettle that I pull out for ISB brew days (we made 300l this month :super. The issue experienced was mash water volume combined with available boiler capacity. We had to carefully consider the logistics especially as we were doing a partigyle brew. We ended up draining the 1st runnings into a 2 x 100l kettles as the 180l jobie was full of sparge water.

So don't just consider the size of your kettle to be the limiting factor, the HLT volume can be as well. This may mean that you need obtain 2 vessles of the same capacity (1 for HLT & another for a kettle) so brewdays run smoothly.

Don't forget the OH&S issues with dealing with large volumes of hot liquid - a pump is a must.

I'd recommend going bigger than you think, but storage is an issue with large vessels (trust me ;-)) FWIW, I voted 100l cause I can do tripple brews no worries in my 50l electric HLT, 75l mash tun & 100l boiler. I no longer do single brews cause I no-chill & now have my own stock of fresh wort cubes on hand :beer: 

Crozdog


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## BrissyBrew (12/6/07)

Thanks for the feedback.
Looks like a 75L, and 100L size pots would be good order.


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## devo (12/6/07)

I'm glad I went the 100ltr pot for my boiler. I have since reinvented my old 80ltr boiler as my new HLT.


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## mika (12/6/07)

Will the NASA easily boil the contents of a 100L Pot ?
I'm only doing 20L batches, so I only need a 50L "pot" (~35L into the kettle pre-boil).
That's capacity on my fermentor too, generally I don't want more than 20L of one brew. If I want more beer I do a double brew day. And a double brewday is easily achieved when you don't give yourself a hernia from lifting a 60L fermentor h34r:

My 2c.


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## devo (12/6/07)

mika_lika said:


> Will the NASA easily boil the contents of a 100L Pot ?
> I'm only doing 20L batches, so I only need a 50L "pot" (~35L into the kettle pre-boil).
> That's capacity on my fermentor too, generally I don't want more than 20L of one brew. If I want more beer I do a double brew day. And a double brewday is easily achieved when you don't give yourself a hernia from lifting a 60L fermentor h34r:
> 
> My 2c.



"Will the NASA easily boil the contents of a 100L Pot ?"


yes


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## warrenlw63 (12/6/07)

Oh hell yeah!! I'm getting 60 litres from sparge to boil in around 15 minutes. Would do 100 litres on it's ear. Likes a good drink of LPG in the process though. :blink: 

Warren -


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## TidalPete (12/6/07)

BrissyBrew said:


> Thanks for the feedback.
> Looks like a 75L, and 100L size pots would be good order.



Diameter is another thing to think about Brissy. I can do double batches (57 litres) in my 70 litre Robinoux ss pot as long as I keep an eye out for boilovers. Pot is 450mm x 450mm with an aluminium base sandwiched in at the bottom to help absorb the heat better.

:beer:


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## Screwtop (12/6/07)

mika_lika said:


> Will the NASA easily boil the contents of a 100L Pot ?
> I'm only doing 20L batches, so I only need a 50L "pot" (~35L into the kettle pre-boil).
> That's capacity on my fermentor too, generally I don't want more than 20L of one brew. If I want more beer I do a double brew day. And a double brewday is easily achieved when you don't give yourself a hernia from lifting a 60L fermentor h34r:
> 
> My 2c.



Nasa does 35L pretty quickly so I don't think there'd be much of a wait for 100L, but if you want you could double up like this guy Double Nasa's

Edit:Splenig


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## Murcluf (12/6/07)

Voted 50lt but would love a 35lt if I could get one


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## bear09 (12/6/07)

johnno said:


> Ii would love a 200 litre boiler and the setup to support it.
> 
> Lovely big batches. Would only need too brew once a month then.
> 
> johnno




You have got to be kidding right? Thats 6.66 Litres of beer per day!!!!!!!

Who drinks that much???

:blink:


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## Stuster (12/6/07)

But if you have a 200L boiler, you won't end up with 200L in the fermenter. So it might only be 4L a day.  :lol:


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## oldbugman (12/6/07)

Stuster said:


> But if you have a 200L boiler, you won't end up with 200L in the fermenter. So it might only be 4L a day.  :lol:




And thats only two stubbies a day..








***2L coke bottles or darwin stubbies*******


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## devo (12/6/07)

Screwtop said:


> Nasa does 35L pretty quickly so I don't think there'd be much of a wait for 100L, but if you want you could double up like this guy Double Nasa's
> 
> Edit:Splenig




yes, I couldn't see why not but my be a slight over kill. That guy has a 200ltr set up by the look of it.


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## DrewCarey82 (12/6/07)

If you could do a 50 or a 100litre rig complete setup for around $500-$600 it would sell like pies @ the footy plenty of people here that wont to step up but wont because of the hassle of getting new equipment.


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## browndog (12/6/07)

DrewCarey82 said:


> If you could do a 50 or a 100litre rig complete setup for around $500-$600 it would sell like pies @ the footy plenty of people here that wont to step up but wont because of the hassle of getting new equipment.



Tell him he's dreaming


-Browndog


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## Tony (12/6/07)

hows the serenity


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## domonsura (12/6/07)

DrewCarey82 said:


> If you could do a 50 or a 100litre rig complete setup for around $500-$600 it would sell like pies @ the footy plenty of people here that wont to step up but wont because of the hassle of getting new equipment.



:lol: :blink: :huh: :lol: 
.
.
.
oh.....you're serious? Can't see it happening unless by 'complete setup' you mean a pot and burner with regulator. That figure wouldn't pay for half of the materials cost of any of the complete setups I've seen.......let alone mine...


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## The King of Spain (13/6/07)

I reckon that the sort of people that are interested in making there own beer from grain are the same sort of people that like to make there own equipment as well - certainly is with me. I'm interested in being able to buy fittings etc, but not a full system. That would take the fun out of it.


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## DrewCarey82 (13/6/07)

I am the exact opposite I do AG(albeit with about 10% extract as I cant brew to full capacity) and I'd much rather buy a ready made job and concentrate on far out recipes and concotions.


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## BrissyBrew (24/6/07)

I understand cost will be a factor and I am investigating a number of avenues to keep costs down.

On this note I have am considering offering 201 Stainless Steel version in addition to 304 due to the price difference between it and 304SS. Basically the price of nickel and molybdenum as gone through the roof driving up the price of stainless steel. 

However the use of 200 series stainless steels is still debated, my current understanding is for beverage use where the pH is above 3 it's service factor is ok.

A negative take on the 200 series steel, for those interested the 201 I am looking at is 4% Ni.
http://www.worldstainless.org/NR/rdonlyres...ttotheimage.pdf

a much shorter article
http://www.assda.asn.au/asp/index.asp?pgid=26141


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## SpillsMostOfIt (24/6/07)

200-series stainless sounds to me like a perfectly reasonable compromise. Shiny is good, but affordable is also good for all concerned.

I don't think the pitting issue should be relevant as brewers often clean religiously and I figure that the contact times of a standard brew would be largely irrelevant?


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## Tony (24/6/07)

I agree.....

I think it would be fine.

the best wat to find out would be to make something up with the 200 grade SS and test it. 

Corosion wont be an issue. It wont be under constant load with low or high pH. i mean 5pH is nothing. when i worked at a plant producing glucose, it got down to 1.5 - 2 pH in the process and it was fine with 316. It ate your clothes though.

Work hardening.......... this is an unfortumate characteristic that SS has. all you have to do to SS to work harden it is to heat and cool it. the more it heats and cools, the more brittle it gets.

I have seen problems with 70000 liter tanks that heat up to 100 and cool down to ambient daily but they were only like 6mm thickness wall and if you do the math on the load of volume to thickness....... well its easy to see why they started to crack after 15 years service.

can you see where im heading with this yet?

I recon it would be fine.

cheers


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## bugwan (24/6/07)

Is aluminium an option?? Would certainly bring prices down. No bling factor, but for me, budget would be more important...


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## BrissyBrew (25/6/07)

bugwan said:


> Is aluminium an option?? Would certainly bring prices down. No bling factor, but for me, budget would be more important...


aluminium is certainly cheaper, but is also a material that does not like low pH, for instance your best Italian tomato sauces are not suppose to be made aluminium pots and I am not even going to go into the debate about health concerns.


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## OLD DOG (2/7/07)

hi Brissybrew, 

any more news or inidiciative pricing on your pots?

regards old dog


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## Tseay (2/7/07)

BrissyBrew, I think you need to be realy clear about which market you are after. 

The availability of a turn key (or at least a decent construction kit one or two stages removed) mash set up is a completely different market to a lot of the folks who post here who have a lot of mechanical skills and possibly time. 

Those of us who are mechanically challenged and time poor ( eg moi - phrak will attest) might welcome a kit approach where we dont have to work out all the details what bits to buy etc. the market might not be there yet but I don't think well see the market take off as it could, until the latter group is catered to. The same observation applies to batch size- smaller batch sizes which allow one to upgrade might be an alternative to consider.


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