# XXXX Bitter



## canberra_student (27/2/13)

I am planning my second brew, and have decided to try something like XXXX bitter since my mate's a Queenslander and he loves the stuff when he can find it.

I see that Morgan’s Queenslander Lager claims to be a XXXX clone.

Anyone have much experience with this kit?

I will mix it with 1kg dextrose.


Most recipes recommend a lager yeast, but I don't want to try lager yeast just yet, so will an ale yeast do OK? (I imagine the kit comes with 7g ale yeast).


I see that the hops used in XXXX is Golden Cluster. Does the Morgan's kit include enough hops, or should I add extra (as mentioned in numerous recipes). If I do add extra hops should I boil/steep/whole/dry hop? Tea bag or pellets? (this will be first time hopping).

The other option is to use kit converter #76.

Basically for my second brew I am aiming for better temp control (currently looking for a cheap fridge), more accurate pitching temp (will get a glass thermometer), proper rehydration of the dry yeast, using a 12g dry yeast, and having a go at hopping.


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## mckenry (27/2/13)

Hey canberra_student,
This has been asked plenty of times. If you type in XXXX clone in the search box (under the sponsors banners) and then click on 'this forum' and change it to google, then hit the search icon (the magnifying glass) there will be lots of results. Have a look through those and if you still have questions post in one of those threads.
This way, you wont get hammered for starting a new topic, but most importantly, your questions will probably be answered.
mckenry


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## zindello (27/2/13)

I can't comment on the recipe, but one thing I've been doing and told to do, is with each new brew that you do, if you're going to try to adjust something, at least when starting out, do it one at a time.

If you change too many things, and then things go pear shaped, it can be hard to figure out what went wrong, or even if they don't go pear shaped it's hard to tell what change had what effect. If you limit the changes to one at a time then you can correlate the change to a particular effect.

I'd suggest do a brew or two with good temp control, then try the hopping. That way you can identify how much cleaner the brew is "out of the can" using temp control, and then be able to observe the taste changes as you do brews further on down the track with hopping.


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## roverfj1200 (27/2/13)

I used to brew the Queenslander gold sometime back. Nothing like the real thing. With a kit and kilo go I would use the CPA tin Brew booster 2 and dry hop with say 15g of cluster. You could steep the cluster but I feel it would bitter it up to much.

Cheers


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## Nick JD (27/2/13)

If you do this, but use Cluster (to about 25 IBUs) instead of Pride of Ringwood ... it _will _taste like XXXX Bitter.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/44264-20l-stovetop-all-grain-aussie-lager/

You're not gonna get close with kits. Sorry - just a painful reality.


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## canberra_student (28/2/13)

Hmm, that actually looks rather simple.

Only thing is I don't have a pot big enough... but I'm sure the other club members will have one.


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## Nick JD (28/2/13)

canberra_student said:


> Hmm, that actually looks rather simple.
> 
> Only thing is I don't have a pot big enough... but I'm sure the other club members will have one.


$20 at BigW. Sell some of your hipster clothes.


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## dougsbrew (28/2/13)

the old xxxx bitter or the current xxxx bitter.. would be nice if they slapped their accountants around
a bit and did the vb thing --- return it back to the old recipe...


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## TidalPete (28/2/13)

You Know Who You Are & by deleting your post you have saved us (Mostly you) lots of embarrassment.
It would help to know where you blew in from fella?

XXXX used to be the only beer up here until interstate migration (Read blowins, mexicans, whatever) sadly arrived here around the early '70's or thereabouts & continues TTD.
Take Maryborough Qld, for instance, with 23 pubs in the early '60' but with only 2 x pubs selling Carlton & both of those really struggling I promise you. There was no debate on which was the better beer up here.

Flash forward to 2013 & every man & his dog wants to sell whatever megaswill he can lay his hands on to Maryborough & anywhere else in this state because of all you blowin's abnormal taste buds. h34r:

To the OP ---- The original grain bill supplimented with Cluster at FWH & '0' will work reasonally well but best with a lager yeast such as 2042 Danish.


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## Bribie G (28/2/13)

The Granville Hotel was a blue pub (Carlton) but which was the other one, Pete? The Torquay Hotel at Hervey Bay was a blue pub as well.
I won a $100 incentive at work and rather than be honest I went to the Granville pub and did a deal with the landlord to buy 10 cartons (talking 1983 here) and rolled up home with 5 of Carlton Draught and 5 of Carlton Pilsner.
Both brewed at Bulimba Plant at Fortitude Valley.

Hey SWMBO guess what I won at work :lol: - took them all on holiday squeezed into the falcon wagon anyway they would fit and ripped out the exhaust system driving into Carnarvon National Park :blink:

On balance I preferred Carlton, it was an ultra pale 5% beer with a huge hop hit. Not like the lame excuse nowadays.

Edit: Ahaaa I remember, it was the pub on Ellena Street next door to the old Richers Transport Depot.


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## scottc1178 (28/2/13)

@tidalpete, I assume you mean me. I didn't delete my comment, I think the mods did, and I now see why.
It was just a joke, didn't realise anyone would actually get upset about it...


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## labels (28/2/13)

Brewing any kind of lager from kit, I really think you should plan now on it being so different as to not even resemble what you're aiming for, that way you'll avoid dissapointment.

Copying any beer is difficult. Quite by a fluke I managed to get very close to Carlton Draught. My usual malt wasn't available and opted for a substitute. I'm not a huge Carlton Draught fan preferring craft beers these days but I was also very pleased with the fact I got that close, even if it was by accident.

The truth is Australian lagers are steeped in an unusual history. Back in colonial days, the breweries made ales using ale malts and techniques. When refrigeration became available, they swapped out to make lagers, more suited to a hot climate. They continued to use the same recipes and ingredients as the ales but brewed them as a lager using lager yeast. This is what makes Australian lagers unique (love or hate). You can do the same with home brewing. Use an ale malt, ale hops like POR but brew it using a lager yeast (2042 is great) at lager temps, you'll be surprised how close you will be.

However, back from digressing, you will fail with kits on making lagers, sorry.

-=Steve=-


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## TidalPete (28/2/13)

Mostly :icon_offtopic:

Yes Bribie it was the Carlton Hotel at the corner of Bazaar & Ellena that I had to got past every day on my way to town & I'm talking '60' as well as '70's. I remember Ritcher's Transport well & will tell you later on.

Pubs down The Bay didn't matter at all in those days as The Bay was so small & quiet that everybody local went there for a rest.

The opposite is now true thanks to the blow-in brigade inasmuch as if you live down The Bay you go to Maryborough for a Bex & a Good Lie Down these days. :lol:

scottc, :beer:
Don't worry about that post as anyone will tell you that I'm a true-blue Queenslander & always complaining about the Invasion but don't really mean offense. Those mods can be sad sometimes? h34r:
Just Rabbitting on Regardless!
Perhaps you've seen the movie?


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## Nick JD (28/2/13)

Pretty sure Aussie Lagers are lagers because at 14C a lager yeast is done quicker than a 15 year old on top of his sister's fugly friend.


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## TidalPete (28/2/13)

Nick JD said:


> Pretty sure Aussie Lagers are lagers because at 14C a lager yeast is done quicker than a 15 year old on top of his sister's fugly friend.


We all know that XXXX IS a lager.
Research from many years ago showed that the first brewmaster at Milton was said to be Danish.
Not 100% certain that this is fact but if so then quite possible he brought his own (Danish) yeast with him? Hence my preference to 2042 Danish Lager which works well for me.


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## AndrewQLD (28/2/13)

I did the xxxx tour about 10 years ago, the guide suggested that xxxx is indeed a lager and is fermented at 18c using a lager yeast, I am pretty sure I even posted on AHB with this marvelous revelation into the XXXX brand brewing practices all those years ago.


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## labels (28/2/13)

Nick JD said:


> Pretty sure Aussie Lagers are lagers because at 14C a lager yeast is done quicker than a 15 year old on top of his sister's fugly friend.


Hmm, useful post . . .


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## bigandhairy (28/2/13)

labels said:


> Hmm, useful post . . .


and yet quite accurate in its context


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## dougsbrew (28/2/13)

AndrewQLD said:


> I did the xxxx tour about 10 years ago, the guide suggested that xxxx is indeed a lager and is fermented at 18c using a lager yeast, I am pretty sure I even posted on AHB with this marvelous revelation into the XXXX brand brewing practices all those years ago.


i did the tour a few year back, the guide told me that they had found a way to get more out of the hops and they dont need to use as much anymore.
and now that they are down to 4.7% they are also using less grain. hence my earlier post, there is a big difference in the old xxxx and the new xxxx.
fosters worked out vb drinkers werent happy.. now its xxxx time to work it out.. however its xxxxgold that is their priority..


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## Batz (28/2/13)

I like the fact that some brewers try to replicate Aussie beers, it's really not as easy as some have you believe.
Aussie beers are a brew you can try side by side with the real thing, do you have it right? I've tried a lot of brewers attempts that they have brewed for relatives or friends and guess what? they didn't like it.

It's a simple grain bill with a lager yeast, and brewed cold.
Even some micro's who try to brew Aussie lagers don't get it right from what I've tried.

XXXX Bitter is bittered with Pride of Ringwood and Cluster for aroma.

I can't believe brewers who say you can't make an Aussie beer because of some reason but will have a go at a Belgium beer.

The best of luck to you Canberra_student, PM me and I'll help were I can but it near impossible to replicate
with a kit.

Batz


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## Bribie G (28/2/13)

I don't know about XXXX but CUB lagers use the Fosters B strain which is fairly similar to Wyeast Danish. A certain member here who works at CUB but will remain nameless reveals that to use this yeast you start at around 13 then let it rise to around 19 over a few days, then lager for 10 days. On the odd occasion that I do an Aussie it turns out very much like the pub version, but I need to use 30% sugar by gravity.


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## Nick JD (28/2/13)

Bribie G said:


> A certain member here


Parched lad? Dehydrated young man? Mastery dry? Arid youth? Sapless buck?


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## Bribie G (28/2/13)

toddler craving orange juice


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## bum (1/3/13)

It is worth pointing out that un-quenched male human child often states that his suggestions for how a homebrewer might replicate his employer's products are designed for a homebrew scale and may not necessarily reflect the actual processes or exacty ingredients/ratios used in that den of iniquity.


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## labels (1/3/13)

Bribie G said:


> I don't know about XXXX but CUB lagers use the Fosters B strain which is fairly similar to Wyeast Danish. A certain member here who works at CUB but will remain nameless reveals that to use this yeast you start at around 13 then let it rise to around 19 over a few days, then lager for 10 days. On the odd occasion that I do an Aussie it turns out very much like the pub version, but I need to use 30% sugar by gravity.


I use that yeast almost exclusively. It is very forgiving in temperature range, doesn't throw huge amounts of diacetyl if fermented too cold or huge amounts of esters if fermented too warm. I'm not saying wild swings but a couple or three degrees in each direction from optimum which is about 10°C

Steve


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## Nick JD (1/3/13)

I find that BB malt, a touch of BB caramalt, 15% sugaz, PoR at 60min to 20 IBUs and 34/70 at 14C makes an almost indistinguisable clone of Carlton Draught.

Tweak this recipe and you have virtually every Aussie mega on the shelves.

Use Cluster and you have Castlemaine, CPA yeast and you have CPA.

And this is why Aussie beer is shit - the only variety is in the labeling.


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## labels (1/3/13)

Nick JD said:


> I find that BB malt, a touch of BB caramalt, 15% sugaz, PoR at 60min to 20 IBUs and 34/70 at 14C makes an almost indistinguisable clone of Carlton Draught.
> 
> Tweak this recipe and you have virtually every Aussie mega on the shelves.
> 
> ...


Absolutely agree. Except I use 2042 yeast. Use BB galaxy for your 'Pure Blonde' style, leave out the sugar and sub in Hersbruker to about 15 ibu's

Aussie beer might be shit but for all non brewing mates that judge your brewing skills by comparing your beer with their favourite swill - it buys a LOT of brownie points. Like all the work that skilled tradesmen done on buliding my bar for next to nix.

Yep, there's a lot to said for being able to successfully brew Aussie beer.

-=Steve=-


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## Online Brewing Supplies (1/3/13)

scottc1178 said:


> @tidalpete, I assume you mean me. I didn't delete my comment, I think the mods did, and I now see why.
> It was just a joke, didn't realise anyone would actually get upset about it...


There a few precious ones on here , _*they know who they are*_
Nev


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## Nick JD (1/3/13)

labels said:


> Absolutely agree. Except I use 2042 yeast. Use BB galaxy for your 'Pure Blonde' style, leave out the sugar and sub in Hersbruker to about 15 ibu's
> 
> Aussie beer might be shit but for all non brewing mates that judge your brewing skills by comparing your beer with their favourite swill - it buys a LOT of brownie points. Like all the work that skilled tradesmen done on buliding my bar for next to nix.
> 
> ...


I like to make an Aussie Lager, but use Wey Pils instead of BB and NZ Hallertau instead of PoR (same IBUs). Megaswillers love the stuff.

What megaswillers don't like is: late hops, IBUs above 25, more than 20 EBC, caramel/toffee maltiness, esters and above all ... cloudiness. You can make a fantastic lager that ticks these boxes by avoiding aussie malts (left to "shine" they can be quite dull IMO) and PoR.


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