# Why the preference for Liquid Yeast?



## indica86 (21/12/13)

Being relatively new to all this homebrewing decent beer malarkey I am left wondering why there is such a preference for the liquid yeasts.
From what I can see reading through various topics I assume it is because of the variety available? Is there more to it that just that?

THanks.


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## Ducatiboy stu (21/12/13)

No, not really. Its basically just the varieties available.

Some yeasts, like Coopers, dont survive the drying process.


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## mje1980 (21/12/13)

For me, it's 

1.) Variety

2.) Flavour


I do use dry yeast though. Us05 for us ales, not that I brew many. Belle saison was pretty good. Never had much luck with notto, didn't like the flavour of it. Same with Windsor and s04. Always preferred the flavours of liquid uk ale strains I tried. Lagers same, don't do many at all but always preferred the liquid yeast batches.

Re the dry uk yeasts, I've tasted heaps of beers brewed with them that where excellent. So4 especially but I just never made a beer that I liked better than the beers I made with the liquid strains. 

This is purely personal preference I might add.


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## indica86 (21/12/13)

Thanks.


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## Adr_0 (21/12/13)

absolutely the variety.

you can open yourself up to risk though, e.g. a supplier that doesn't have a lot of turnover. The fresher, the better - ideally within a month or two if you can.

if you do get into liquid yeasts, it's a good idea to have one or two standby dry yeasts, e.g. US-05, BRY-97 (haven't used personally but hear it's good), Windsor. I say this as being in FNQ you might get the odd liquid yeast that is a bit old or gets too hot and doesn't quite fire off; you accidentally stuff up the starter; or the dogs get into it.

dry yeast is always better than no yeast. 

and you also have a bunch of dedicated dry yeast users here who make exceptional beer and do it for the convenience.


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## HBHB (21/12/13)

The margins in sheer variety with dry yeast is getting narrower at a rapid pace.

Between Saf, Mangrove Jacks and lallemand, there's a great variety of yeast available in dry cultures now.

Martin


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## Bribie G (21/12/13)

Dunno if it's true but a few years ago on the forum it was stated that the Wig and Pen in Canberra just use S-04, and some other craft breweries use dried yeasts.

I've basically given up on Wyeast "Chico" yeasts as I find that US-05 and particulary BRY-97 does everything they do.

For everything else, the vast majority of my brewing is British ales and here, liquid yeasts really shine. My Yorkshire Bitters, Irish Reds or London ESBs absolutely rely on the "right" yeast.
A few years ago when I was in the Brisbane Amateur Beer Brewers they did a Timothy Taylor Landlord Tribute brew day at the Mt Tamborine brewery and members took home a cube each to ferment at home with a different yeast.

Didn't get on the trip myself as I was working that weekend, but there was a tasting night. Two memorable versions were the Ringwood, divine, and the Nottingham that was so dry we puckered up. The dry yeast had massacred the beer. (Love Nottingham in a fake lager however and it makes a brilliant Tooheys Old clone).

I haven't tried the Mangrove Jacks yet, might be in for a pleasant surprise next year.


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## mje1980 (21/12/13)

I loved the mangrove jacks burton in an all challenger bitter. Great character when young. A few more weeks in the keg it got a bit "dusty" though and not as good. It was a 1.033 bitter though. I have another pack that I plan on trying again in a similar beer.


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## manticle (21/12/13)

Totally the variety. For super hoppy US beers I do prefer 1272 and Denny's favourite over US05 but only by a whisker of a beesdick's pubes. Not sure if I've used Bry97. I have an inkling I tried some when I couldn't get one of the others but my brain is vague.

For British or Belgians though - liquid variety and difference between each variety is noticeable with the same recipe. Coopers knockoffs would not work with anything but recultured or WL australian ale and I believe yeast strain is integral to kolsch (never made one, tasted and judged plenty) and alt (made many, love them). Only make one lager or so per year and only used dry for early extract versions so less qualified to comment but the few liquids I have used have had noticeable discriminating characteristics.

Never made the same lager twice so those discriminating characteristics have many variables but have done various brits many times over and the distinction there is very strong.

Also the difference between belgian saison, french saison and PC farmhouse is marked. never used Belle so not sure where it fits in.


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## bradsbrew (21/12/13)

> I loved the mangrove jacks burton in an all challenger bitter. Great character when young. A few more weeks in the keg it got a bit "dusty" though and not as good. It was a 1.033 bitter though. I have another pack that I plan on trying again in a similar beer.


One of the beers on tap at the moment is a blend of wyeast1469 and the MJ burton ale. Superb, got 2% a mild cranking atm with it


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## indica86 (21/12/13)

Again, great and helpful insights.
I fear being where I am with postage taking generally 5 days I may be best to stick with dry. I will work my way through the dry range and "learn" to taste different flavours, educate my palate somewhat.
This is certainly do-able (as an aside) as during a brief foray into better beers I find I can taste DME now.


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## warra48 (21/12/13)

What Bribie G says about use of dried yeast by some craftbrewers is correct.

Every time I've been into Black Duck here locally, I'm told they use US05 for all of their brews.

I use it myself for my US style ales.

However, there are beer styles such as various Belgians, many UK styles, and Wheat styles which just are never as good or truly to style unless you use a dedicated liquid yeast.


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## wbosher (21/12/13)

bradsbrew said:


> One of the beers on tap at the moment is a blend of wyeast1469 and the MJ burton ale. Superb, got 2% a mild cranking atm with it


Interested in this comment bradsbrew. How do you do_ a blend of_, and why? Is it literally just combining two yeasts?


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## bradsbrew (21/12/13)

wbosher said:


> Interested in this comment bradsbrew. How do you do_ a blend of_, and why? Is it literally just combining two yeasts?


I accidently put my smack pack of 1469 in the freezer with some hops. It was only in there for 24hrs. I let it defrost then smacked it and it was swelling within hours. I still wasn't sure of the health so I threw the MJ yeast in as well. No starter, just straight into 21L of 1.044 OG wort. Onto the 3rd gen of yeast cake now with the mild.

I have had success with blending 1469 and coopers bottle yeast in a stout. It did have a drier finish and different flavour from the brew, from the same batch, that just had 1469 and but not as dry and "perceived thinness" of the brew from the same batch that just had the coopers bottle yeast.

Cheers

Cheers


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## OzPaleAle (21/12/13)

indica86 said:


> I fear being where I am with postage taking generally 5 days I may be best to stick with dry. I will work my way through the dry range and "learn" to taste different flavours, educate my palate somewhat.


That is my theory also, only used dry so far, to many other variables for me to get under control before I delve into the massive range of liquid yeasts!


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## Ducatiboy stu (21/12/13)

I have often wondered about blending yeasts.


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## Bizier (21/12/13)

Use of dry yeasts in smaller commercial breweries is generally related to it being difficult to do a sterile re-pitch, and also to do with re-using the strain. Using liquid yeast requires good time and batch management to ensure it is in the right condition to suit the production schedule. So dry is generally the go-to because it can be rehydrated and pitched according to need, not to keep the strain alive and active.


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## lael (24/12/13)

manticle said:


> Totally the variety. For super hoppy US beers I do prefer 1272 and Denny's favourite over US05 but only by a whisker of a beesdick's pubes. Not sure if I've used Bry97. I have an inkling I tried some when I couldn't get one of the others but my brain is vague.
> 
> For British or Belgians though - liquid variety and difference between each variety is noticeable with the same recipe. Coopers knockoffs would not work with anything but recultured or WL australian ale and I believe yeast strain is integral to kolsch (never made one, tasted and judged plenty) and alt (made many, love them). Only make one lager or so per year and only used dry for early extract versions so less qualified to comment but the few liquids I have used have had noticeable discriminating characteristics.
> 
> ...


Manticle, what are the differences between the Saison strains you've used?


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## Spiesy (24/12/13)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I have often wondered about blending yeasts.


White Labs sell some particular blends - but yeah, of course you could make some yourself.
My lager that is currently lagered was pitched with Wyeast German Pils and S23, S23 was added as the German Pils needed a rev up.

On the topic of breweries; Mountain Goat apparently use good old US05 for their brews.

But yep - variety is the spice of life, and you certainly get that with liquid yeast - White Labs have almost 100 different strains! Sure, some of them are for wine and spirits, but there's a tonne of beer yeasts available.


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## Phoney (24/12/13)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I have often wondered about blending yeasts.


Waste of time from what ive read. One will almost always dominate over the other (depending on cell count and health).


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## warra48 (24/12/13)

It can be a waste of time to use blended strains, but not always.

If the strains are carefully selected, then one strain might be an early starter and produce desirable esters, but then not attenuate very well.
The second strain kicks in a little after the first strain, and enables you to then achieve a good level of apparent attenuation.
Best of both worlds, but it is dependent on considered blending and selection.


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## tiprya (24/12/13)

There is a bit in the Yeast book about blending, it is definitely not a waste of time.

I have heard that Murrays use a blend in some of their beers, a character yeast and another that ensures reliable attenuation.

Yeast+bacteria blends are where it's at :beerbang:


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## Yob (24/12/13)

I've a blend of Greenbelt and BRY97 in 2 FV's atm.. I think the 2 will compliment each other


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