# Make your own Calcium Hydroxide? Yeah, right...



## evoo4u (25/9/16)

In the interests of getting my mash pH up to where it should be without using lots of Sodium Bicarbonate, and not being able to source any Calcium Hydroxide, I followed the YouTube guidelines and made my own.

Pretty straightforward, and then searched around for a suitable dish to evaporate the moisture from the resulting goo. I know :super: - that big flat open Corningware dish we were given as a wedding present. Worked a treat. Several hours in a low oven, and I had a sort of baked-on powdery cake of Calcium Hydroxide, which I scraped off and crushed to a powder in the mortar & pestle thingo.

Then sat the dish in the sink with some soapy water to soak off the residue.

(_Sometime later_...)
Anyway --- I'm not the favourite home brewer in the house ATM, as it very nicely lifted all the glaze off the bottom and about a third the way up the sides of the dish. Not happy - we are not amused...

Don't know if the picture shows it too well, but there's got to be a lesson there somewhere!

Anyway, inspired now to conduct a more thorough search, I found a local (as in Oz) supplier of the ready-made food-grade stuff:
http://www.melbournefooddepot.com/buy/pickling-lime-calcium-hydroxide-food-grade-100g/PS0029

So it's on it's way, the chemistry lab has been dismantled, and I'll stick to making beer!


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## Bribie G (25/9/16)

I find that these dishes are good for making plastic explosive or nitroglycerine but wouldn't recommend for Calcium Hydroxide.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (25/9/16)

Not sure why you couldn't use chalk; you are trying to get the pH up so you're well below the pKa of carbonate.


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## evoo4u (25/9/16)

Just noticed the reference to a 20kg bag of Hydrated Lime is gone. Perhaps as well - it might add a few unwanted trace elements to the brew...

Chalk? Very hard to dissolve I'm told, and if not in solution, won't do much to raise pH.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (25/9/16)

Chalk is soluble in anything with a low enough pH, hence the comment about the pKa.

The carbonate reacts with the acid, the CO2 produced exits the solution leaving calcium hydroxide behind.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (25/9/16)

evoo4u said:


> Just noticed the reference to a 20kg bag of Hydrated Lime is gone. Perhaps as well - it might add a few unwanted trace elements to the brew...


Just like using sea salt might add unwanted trace elements to your food. Hydrated lime is produced from limestone which in turn precipitated out of sea water.


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## MHB (25/9/16)

FYI - CaOH and NaOH will both eat glass! They are a fairly extreme way to adjust water pH there are safer options (as above) Chalk works well.
You can buy 100g of food grade on eBay woolies click and collect CaOH
Mark


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## good4whatAlesU (25/9/16)

What about those calcium tablets they sell in the supermarket for people with (or wanting to prevent) arthritis:

http://www.google.com.au/shopping/product/13555990374372805494?q=calcium+tablets+osteoporosis&prmd=ivns&prds=paur:ClkAsKraX0mwQkNzgSCqUqwbW_GPhIpL2r6MHS7ddCSCRaLrUwolZ_MLN7rJPeh9yAMbafoTVTqk09J-Nfsp_5siMLy3iIbN_6ZdC4FgIklwBjM4Dro2C4zgLxIZAFPVH71q7xII5Fli3Qvogchm_yKeTC3-Gw&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjlzeuC8anPAhXEKZQKHQrVAa8Q8wIIDDAA


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (25/9/16)

Pharmaceutical grade chalk. Price tag to match.


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## timmi9191 (25/9/16)

Wondering what your water report is and what you're brewing that would have you using excessive amounts of sodium bicarb to adjust mash pH??


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## evoo4u (25/9/16)

MHB said:


> Chalk works well.


I'm on a learning curve here. I understood that chalk really only dissolves in acid, and that would seem to be at odds with raising the pH?


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## evoo4u (25/9/16)

timmi9191 said:


> Wondering what your water report is and what you're brewing that would have you using excessive amounts of sodium bicarb to adjust mash pH??


Rain water in a country area. Very soft, but have not had it analysed. I'm making the assumption it has no significant chemical bias in it.

I've had to add 4 to 5 grams Sodium Bicarb to raise the mash pH from 4.7 to 5.2, and unless I'm imagining it, the beers do seem to have a harshness. Now it may be other factors at play here, and maybe that amount of Sodium Bicarb is perfectly OK. But I wanted to try Ca(OH)2 to see if I could detect a (better) difference.

Overall, I'm trying to strike a balance between being anal and 'she'll be right mate'.


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## timmi9191 (25/9/16)

What are you measuring pH with?
What size brews you doing? Light or dark beers?


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## MHB (25/9/16)

Yes it is pretty much insoluble (around 0.012g/l from memory), but acid ions in the water react with it reducing their population so the pH goes up.
Mark

missed your second post, I would be having a look at your pH meter and recalibrating it - be very unusual for tank water to be that acid.
M


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (25/9/16)

evoo4u said:


> I'm on a learning curve here. I understood that chalk really only dissolves in acid, and that would seem to be at odds with raising the pH?


Another way of explaining this which may or may not help.

Your pH being too low means there is too much acid in the mash, adding the chalk to the mash will correct the excess acidity.


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## Ducatiboy stu (25/9/16)

Lyrebird_Cycles said:
 

> Pharmaceutical grade chalk. Price tag to match.


Can see it now

" 10grams of pharmaceutical grade chalk please "


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## evoo4u (25/9/16)

timmi9191 said:


> What are you measuring pH with?
> What size brews you doing? Light or dark beers?


Hanna 98128, 22.5 litres (no chill cube style), both. Very happy with my porters and stouts, but a tad disappointed with lighter colours. This seems contradictory, as you'd expect the dark ones to be more acid, but I'm going by what the pH meter tells me. Maybe, the darker ones are more forgiving of higher sodium levels?

Mark, thanks for your explanation re chalk. I'll try some chalk next brew, and see how it goes.

Lyrebird_Cycles - good explanation. Thanks.


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## evoo4u (25/9/16)

Lyrebird_Cycles said:


> Just like using sea salt might add unwanted trace elements to your food. Hydrated lime is produced from limestone which in turn precipitated out of sea water.


I'm aware that some agricultural/industrial products can contain impurities over and above what the label might suggest. ie - heavy metals in fertilisers, depending on the source, so I'm a bit wary of using other than "food grade" in stuff I'll be eating.


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## timmi9191 (25/9/16)

Are you using a water tool such a Bru'n or EZ water?


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## wynnum1 (25/9/16)

Bribie G said:


> I find that these dishes are good for making plastic explosive or nitroglycerine but wouldn't recommend for Calcium Hydroxide.


Have you looked at using metal its cheaper and no need to wash up.


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## evoo4u (25/9/16)

timmi9191 said:


> Are you using a water tool such a Bru'n or EZ water?


No, but perhaps I should. I use the water calculator in Beersmith to get the appropriate ppm's, but haven't used either of the others. Ultimately, they're guides (good ones, but still just guides), and the final adjustment has to be made in the live mash.

I guess I'd need to get a water analysis of my rainwater first. $$$


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## evoo4u (25/9/16)

MHB said:


> missed your second post, I would be having a look at your pH meter and recalibrating it - be very unusual for tank water to be that acid.
> M


I have a feeling we've been down this track before. As I understand it, there's not enough buffering power in water to make a pH reading meaningful, and it's only the mash pH which is relevant. But as I said, I'm still learning...

(But maybe that's why our cars rust out in three weeks after washing them )


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## timmi9191 (25/9/16)

Not familiar with the beersmith tool, but I find Bru'n is spot on.

My advice would be to use it and also read many of the accompanying notes as they provide good basic advice on getting the water profile correct to help with both the desired flavour/beer type and mash pH


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## good4whatAlesU (25/9/16)

Throw some cuttlefish in


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## good4whatAlesU (25/9/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Can see it now
> 
> " 10grams of pharmaceutical grade chalk please "


Here we are

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=calcium+carbonate+pharmacological+class&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=shop


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## MHB (25/9/16)

I think most good Home Brew Shops will have food grade Chalk (calcium carbonate) I know my local does, I think it might even be cheaper than the link above.
Mark


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## drsmurto (25/9/16)

I'm a tad suspicious of a pH reading that low for water. What reading do you get if you test vinegar? Should be somewhere between 2 and 3.

Take 7g of your homemade calcium hydroxide and dissolve it in 1L of water. The pH should be around 13.


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## evoo4u (25/9/16)

DrSmurto said:


> I'm a tad suspicious of a pH reading that low for water.


What reading are you referring to?


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## MHB (26/9/16)

evoo4u said:


> Rain water in a country area. Very soft, but have not had it analysed. I'm making the assumption it has no significant chemical bias in it.
> 
> I've had to add 4 to 5 grams Sodium Bicarb to raise the mash pH from 4.7 to 5.2, and unless I'm imagining it, the beers do seem to have a harshness. Now it may be other factors at play here, and maybe that amount of Sodium Bicarb is perfectly OK. But I wanted to try Ca(OH)2 to see if I could detect a (better) difference.
> 
> Overall, I'm trying to strike a balance between being anal and 'she'll be right mate'.


I think DrS was referring to your needing that much Bicarbonate, a mash will naturally lower the pH some, a dark beer more than a pale beer.
To need the amount of adjustment you are making the water would have to be very acidic, which leads to the same question that I asked, how confidant are you of your pH readings?
pH meters need a lot of TLC, keep the electrode wet and calibrate every time you use it... and they don't last forever.

Unless you are making very dark beer it would be a very good idea to confirm your water/mash pH and if it is as low as you think.
Just in reference to an earlier comment about your beer flavour, I find too much bicarbonate can add a dry mineral flavour that I don't find very appealing, too high a pH will increase tannin extraction, again giving off flavours.
Mark


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## klangers (26/9/16)

Making chemicals at home using a casserole dish.... whew lad. :blink:


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## drsmurto (26/9/16)

evoo4u said:


> What reading are you referring to?


Rainwater at 4.7 is very low unless I've misread something.

Edit - think i have misread. Confusing another thread about low pH tank water. 

What is the pH of your water only?


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## evoo4u (26/9/16)

MHB said:


> I think DrS was referring to your needing that much Bicarbonate, a mash will naturally lower the pH some, a dark beer more than a pale beer.
> To need the amount of adjustment you are making the water would have to be very acidic, which leads to the same question that I asked, how confidant are you of your pH readings?
> pH meters need a lot of TLC, keep the electrode wet and calibrate every time you use it... and they don't last forever.


I always use Hanna's storage solution between uses, but I am guilty of not cleaning it as often as Hanna recommends. So I've removed the electrode just now, and it's in their cleaning solution. Then after a calibration, I'll do the vinegar/Ca(OH)2 check, and if it looks sus I'll commission the new electrode I have. I did the Ca(OH)2 check earlier this morning, after a calibration, but before the clean, and it started at 12.2, slowly dropping to stabilise around 11.8.

I'll report back...


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## evoo4u (26/9/16)

The electrode may have been a bit dodgy I think. It calibrated OK the last time, but just now it did the 7 OK, but wouldn't accept the 4. So I have the new one in cleaning solution, as per the installation recommendation. Then I'll get a new set of batteries, and wait with interest my next mash.

Thanks for all your suggestions and help guys - I appreciate it. I mean, all I want is the perfect beer. Not too much to wish for is it?


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## MHB (26/9/16)

Sounds good, Hydroxide will slowly react with CO2 in the air forming Carbonate which is less basic.
Looks like you are doing all the right things with your pH meter (which is the exception rather than the rule). Just had a google re your location, there are some very acidic soils in the region (as low as 3.5pH) a bit of dust accumulating on the roof and in the tanks could push the pH down.
Bit of a surprise that there would be enough of it to move the mash under pH5, but if it is, it is and sounds like you are taking the right steps to address it.

Might be worth boiling your water the night before, see what falls out and what happens to the pH.
Mark


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## Mozz (27/9/16)

I feel for you buddy.
Tried my hand at sourdough the other day which required the use of preheated Dutch oven.
My wife's long loved and cherished casserole dish looked the goods.
How was I to know all the glaze would crack when I pulled it out from 250C to room temp.


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## scooterism (27/9/16)

http://www.ibrew.com.au/collections/beer-enhancers/products/calcium-carbonate


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## manticle (27/9/16)

http://www.melbournefooddepot.com/buy/pickling-lime-calcium-hydroxide-food-grade-100g/PS0029

https://www.amazon.co.uk/CALCIUM-HYDROXIDE-SLAKED-LIME-PURE/dp/B004C9A5ZA

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Building_brewing_water_with_dissolved_chalk


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## evoo4u (2/10/16)

Good reading in that 3rd link.

UPDATE on my pH meter & mash pH:
My Hanna Instruments 98128 has received a new set of batteries, and the new electrode, and a fresh calibration.

Initial mash pH this morning (at protein rest, after 5 minutes or so) was 5.08.
Added, in stages, 8g chalk (calcium carbonate), which raised mash pH to 5.10. Not much going on there.
Added 2g Pickling Lime (Calcium Hydroxide) which raised the mash pH to 5.28, so happy with that.

I might add that the pickling lime was the very fine bought stuff, made in Japan, and bought online from the Melbourne Food Depot (1st link above).

Mash is proceeding well at 69C, so better get back out there...


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (2/10/16)

Next time, if you will, do a little experiment: add the 2g of hydroxide first and the chalk second, measuring the pH after each step.


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## manticle (2/10/16)

Or better - do 2 identical beers. One with chalk, one with lime.


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## evoo4u (2/10/16)

manticle said:


> Or better - do 2 identical beers. One with chalk, one with lime.


Would you expect one to be much different from the other? I never was any good at chemistry, but they're both adding calcium (good for yeast, they tell me).

And the rule of thumb - chloride = maltier, and sulphate = hoppier, wouldn't apply here would it?


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## manticle (2/10/16)

Talking hydroxide vs carbonate and effect on pH rise.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (2/10/16)

No, I would expect them to be very similar once the different MWs of the two compounds are taken into account (CaCO3 is ~100 , Ca(OH)2 is ~75 so the ratio is ~4:3)

The result above gives a very different ratio. I suspect that the chalk didn't have enough time to react, so some of the effect you ascribe to the hydroxide is actually due to a delayed reaction with the chalk.

This is why I'd like to see it done with the order reversed.

Neither carbonate nor hydroxide have any effect on remnant anions at the pH of beer (apart form the effect on pH itself).


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## wynnum1 (3/10/16)

Not sure how you would make calcium hydroxide in a house oven.
calcium oxide is what is made from calcium carbonate 
calcium sulfate which they say may be blackboard chalk would be a bad idea.
http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Quicklime


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (3/10/16)

By adding water.

CaO + H20 -> Ca(OH)2

Nanny warning: reaction is vigorous and exothermic.

Don't do this in you SO's favourite casserole dish.


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## evoo4u (4/10/16)

wynnum1 said:


> Not sure how you would make calcium hydroxide in a house oven.


I used the reaction of a Caustic Soda solution with a Calcium Chloride solution at ambient temperature. Calcium Hydroxide precipitates out. Drain off the salt water, and dehydrate the Ca(OH)2. Leave it in the sun long enough, or a dehydrator, or in a very low oven which does the job faster.

When it's dried, pummel it into a powder with a mortar and pestle. High temperatures were not required.


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## wynnum1 (4/10/16)

evoo4u said:


> I used the reaction of a Caustic Soda solution with a Calcium Chloride solution at ambient temperature. Calcium Hydroxide precipitates out. Drain off the salt water, and dehydrate the Ca(OH)2. Leave it in the sun long enough, or a dehydrator, or in a very low oven which does the job faster.
> 
> When it's dried, pummel it into a powder with a mortar and pestle. High temperatures were not required.


There is going to be some salt left with the Calcium Hydroxide after its dried .


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## MHB (4/10/16)

Yes but the solubility of Calcium Hydroxide is only about 1.7g/L, NaCl is over 350g/L so it would be quite easy to rinse the precipitate a couple of times the salt would be dissolved and the loss of your hydroxide would be minimal.
Mark


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## evoo4u (4/10/16)

That's what I did.


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