# Grain Substitutions



## barls (17/10/08)

ok guys im planning a beer but i got the recipe from the states and would like to know what to substitute some grains for. 
here is the grain bill for the brown ale.
US 2-Row Malt 1.500 kg 41.3 % 1.1 In Mash/Steeped
US Caramel 35L Malt 0.260 kg 7.2 % 3.8 In Mash/Steeped
US Victory Malt 0.085 kg 2.3 % 1.0 In Mash/Steeped
Belgian Debittered Black Malt 0.057 kg 1.6 % 13.1 In Mash/Steeped
Extract - Light Dried Malt Extract 0.230 kg 6.3 % 0.3 Start Of Boil
Extract - Light Dried Malt Extract 1.500 kg 41.3 % 1.9 End Of Boil

im planning to use ale malt for the two row but am not sure on the rest so any help would be great


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## mika (17/10/08)

- JM Trad Ale or BB equivalent
- Gotta be a Cara-something that goes close
- Toughy...have a search of the forum. Nothing in here that works out spot on, but a few that go close. Amber ?
- Carafa Special should do it
- Coopers DME - Light
- Coopers DME - Light


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## barls (17/10/08)

this is the best ive been able to find on it
Victory Malt download PDF http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Assets/PD...ory_Malt_WK.pdf
Lovibond	Flavor	Unique Characteristics/Applications
28	Toasty
Biscuity
Baking Bread
Nutty	This exceptional malt delivers truly unique biscuity, nutty flavors. With the distinctive and comforting aroma of baking bread, Victory Malt is awesome in Nut Brown Ales and other dark beers. It adds smooth, complex flavor and aroma to any beer style when used at low percentages.


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## buttersd70 (17/10/08)

+1 with mika. For the cara, probably either light crystal, caramunich, caraamber. Personaly, I'd probably go with the caraamber, but any of them should do.
And I would go with Amber for the victory.


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## barls (17/10/08)

which Carafa Special? 1,2 or 3. im almost tempted to go ether caramalt, light crystal or caramunich1 for the caramel


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## buttersd70 (17/10/08)

I would say either 2 or 3, at a guess....whats the mystery recipe, though? A brown ale? Or a porter?

Does the original recipe have a projected srm or EBC in it?


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## barls (18/10/08)

ok guys here is the whole recipe with predicted figures its out of the previous byo
newkbrownomicon

Selected Style and BJCP Guidelines
11C-English Brown Ale-Northern English Brown Ale

Minimum OG: 1.040 SG Maximum OG: 1.052 SG
Minimum FG: 1.008 SG Maximum FG: 1.013 SG
Minimum IBU: 20 IBU Maximum IBU: 30 IBU
Minimum Color: 12.0 SRM Maximum Color: 22.0 SRM


Recipe Overview
Wort Volume Before Boil: 23.00 l Wort Volume After Boil: 20.00 l
Volume Transferred: 20.00 l Water Added To Fermenter: 0.00 l
Volume At Pitching: 20.00 l Volume Of Finished Beer: 19.00 l
Expected Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.018 SG Expected OG: 1.052 SG
Expected FG: 1.013 SG Apparent Attenuation: 74.9 %
Expected ABV: 5.2 % Expected ABW: 4.1 %
Expected IBU (using Tinseth): 29.1 IBU Expected Color (using Morey): 12.1 SRM
BU:GU ratio: 0.56 Approx Color:	
Mash Efficiency: 70.0 % 
Boil Duration: 60.0 mins 
Fermentation Temperature: 18 degC 


Fermentables
Ingredient	Amount	%	MCU	When
US 2-Row Malt 1.500 kg 41.3 % 1.1 In Mash/Steeped
US Caramel 35L Malt 0.260 kg 7.2 % 3.8 In Mash/Steeped
US Victory Malt 0.085 kg 2.3 % 1.0 In Mash/Steeped
Belgian Debittered Black Malt 0.057 kg 1.6 % 13.1 In Mash/Steeped
Extract - Light Dried Malt Extract 0.230 kg 6.3 % 0.3 Start Of Boil
Extract - Light Dried Malt Extract 1.500 kg 41.3 % 1.9 End Of Boil


Hops
Variety	Alpha	Amount	IBU	Form	When
German Northern Brewer 8.0 % 21 g 29.1 Loose Pellet Hops 60 Min From End

Mash Schedule
Mash Type: Full Mash
Schedule Name: Single Step Infusion (68C/154F) w/Mash-Out

Step Type	Temperature	Duration
Rest at 68 degC 60
Raise to and Mash out at 77 degC 10


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## buttersd70 (18/10/08)

Hey Barls.
Putting it into beersmith and subbing the malts, using JW caramalt, JW Amber, and carafa spec III, gives 12.6SRM (carafa spec II gives 12.1srm). its close enough....however, IMHO, I would prefer my brown ales to be darker, in the mid 30'sEBC. (regardless of what BJCP says <_< . To me, a brown should be, well, _brown._) Personally, I'd up the amber and the carafa to 3% each, ie 110g, which would give 32EBC and a decent amount of nuttiness.

I don't think much of the hopping....The bitterness level is right, but I would want at least some hop flavour. Not enough to cover the nutty notes that are trying to be created, but at least a bit. I would be using English hops, prob EKG, with a small flavour addition, maybe 15g for 10 mins, maintaining the same IBU overall. But that's just my 2c.


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## barls (18/10/08)

ok ive had a bit of a play and look in the stash. how does this look

Fermentables
Ingredient	Amount	%	MCU	When
Australian Traditional Ale Malt 3.500 kg 88.3 % 5.0 In Mash/Steeped
German Carahell 0.300 kg 7.6 % 1.3 In Mash/Steeped
Australian Amber Malt 0.085 kg 2.1 % 0.8 In Mash/Steeped
German Carafa III 0.080 kg 2.0 % 17.5 In Mash/Steeped


Hops
Variety	Alpha	Amount	IBU	Form	When
German Northern Brewer 8.0 % 15 g 18.0 Loose Pellet Hops 60 Min From End
UK Golding 5.5 % 15 g 6.2 Loose Pellet Hops 15 Min From End


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## buttersd70 (18/10/08)

Grains look good. Looks like you've dropped the IBU down a bit though....15g/15min EKG sounds good, just make sure the NB is upped to bring it back to the 29-30IBU you originally had, cos the bugu was fine with the 56% it originally had, now it looks like it's down to 25.2IBU which is only 47.5%


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## barls (18/10/08)

cheers mate just changed it back. i decreased it due to adding the ekg bumped the figure up on mine but ill give it a go as soon as i get my urn back from my uncle. which should be soon.
what about the mash temp? should i drop it down to 66 or leave it at the 68


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## buttersd70 (18/10/08)

personaly, for me, 68 is perfic. But it depends on what kind of fg you're after, what yeast and how much body you want. Danstar nottingham (dry), or one of the wyeasts, british ale/london ale/thames valley would be a corker. But if you want it to finish a little drier, you could knock it down to 66 - but for a partial, I'd be inclined to leave it as the recipe says, 68.


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## barls (18/10/08)

ok 68 it is and ive bumped it up to a full ag now. brittish ale sounds good got one of those sitting in there


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## Stuster (18/10/08)

Which British ale yeast is it? Wyeast or White Labs?

Recipe looks good. I'm with butters on the light late hopping and the mash temp looks good to me.


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## barls (18/10/08)

wyeast 1098, unless you have something better stu


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## Ross (18/10/08)

For a Nut brown ale I'd be using Caramalt rather than carahell. Carahell wont give you any of the caramel notes you're chasing.

cheers Ross


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## barls (18/10/08)

cheers ross changed and had to up it by 100g to keep the same og


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## buttersd70 (18/10/08)

barls said:


> ok 68 it is and ive bumped it up to a full ag now. brittish ale sounds good got one of those sitting in there



:beerbang: 
I've not actualy used the 1098 myself. So many yeasts, so little time.....but should go good.
Sounds like a cracker now, mate. :icon_cheers:


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## barls (18/10/08)

buttersd70 said:


> :beerbang:
> I've not actualy used the 1098 myself. So many yeasts, so little time.....but should go good.
> Sounds like a cracker now, mate. :icon_cheers:


i know they keep coming up with new ones.
cheers for the help mate


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## barls (26/10/08)

just mashing this as i type. had to throw in some crystal as i had less caramalt than my inventory said i had. oh well it was only just short.


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## buttersd70 (26/10/08)

Let us know how this one turns out, barls. Wouldn't worry about the caramalt/crystal issue, should still be a luverly drop.


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## barls (26/10/08)

will do mate. so far im doing well just started the boil and got 24L was shooting for 23 but was using a new mash tun, also got around 80 percent efficiency so im a little high on gravity at 1043 using my new mill straight out of the box


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