# Water :)



## Droughtmaster (19/7/12)

hey Guys im up to building some water 
been listening to podcarts about pH and salts also downloaded beersmith to help me get my head around stuff its been a good learning curve but think im getting me head around all this stuff fingers crossed 
water from distilled as thats what i have anyway as the water in rockingham tastes like swamp water in summer and the residue i get on my distiller goes from brown to suddlenly white being calcium carbinate ( could never get my head around science ) 
anyway what in asking is if 
if everyone started from scratch with water the water profile numbers would help someone replicate the beer more easily ?


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## Wolfy (19/7/12)

I'm not sure I understand exactly what you are asking, however when starting out with water-treatment issues, I'd suggest start by reading, and following the advice in this PDF: Key Concepts in Water Treatment

While it's targeted toward Melbourne water, Melbourne water is its virtually the same as distilled/RO water (important brewing ions are all well below 10ppm).
In addition it's not about re-creating water profiles for specific locations but rather supplying what is required for pH, mash and yeast health, and balancing additions for the type of beer being brewed.
The logic for this approach is that it's fair to assume that modern breweries adjust water profiles to what is required (for the type of beer) no matter their location or source water.


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## Filfy (20/7/12)

> Melbourne water is its virtually the same as distilled/RO water




These are two totally different processes for water treatment. 

One boils the water (distillation) the other passes water through membranes/filters under very high pressure (RO/Reverse Osmosis)

I doubt Melbourne water would be close to distilled water, as calcium, flouride, chlorine etc is added, making it a potable water supply, which is far from distilled.


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## warra48 (20/7/12)

I use rainwater, and modify it with additions to suit what I'm brewing.

I use the water tool in BeerSmith2. My base water is entered with 0 values, and I then choose my target water for the full volume of mash and sparge water used. The tool will calculate the additions to get you closest to target.

Remember though, the values programmed into BS2 for your target water may not necesarily be what breweries in those areas use. I'm sure many breweries these days manipulate their water.

I tend to modify the BS2 results based on my own records and experiences, so I don't necessarily use what it proscribes, but use it as a starting point.


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## Truman42 (20/7/12)

Filfy said:


> I doubt Melbourne water would be close to distilled water, as calcium, flouride, chlorine etc is added, making it a potable water supply, which is far from distilled.



I think he meant its *very* close to distilled water.



> Melbourne water is its *virtually* the same as distilled/RO water (important brewing ions are all *well below 10ppm*).



Not the same as distilled water but close.


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## Nick JD (20/7/12)

What's your tap water profile?


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## QldKev (20/7/12)

Droughtmaster said:


> hey Guys im up to building some water
> been listening to podcarts about pH and salts also downloaded beersmith to help me get my head around stuff its been a good learning curve but think im getting me head around all this stuff fingers crossed
> water from distilled as thats what i have anyway as the water in rockingham tastes like swamp water in summer and the residue i get on my distiller goes from brown to suddlenly white being calcium carbinate ( could never get my head around science )
> anyway what in asking is if
> if everyone started from scratch with water the water profile numbers would help someone replicate the beer more easily ?



Here's some dots and comma's for your question.
.....
,,,,,

With them we may be able to understand what you are actually asking.

Have you tried searching, the water question pops up every 2 weeks on here.


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## chunckious (20/7/12)

Get the blindfold for a game of pin the grammar.


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## chunckious (20/7/12)

Thenextgenerationwillbepostingwithoutspacesbetweenthewords.


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## Phoney (20/7/12)

Droughtmaster said:


> hey Guys im up to building some water
> been listening to podcarts about pH and salts also downloaded beersmith to help me get my head around stuff its been a good learning curve but think im getting me head around all this stuff fingers crossed
> water from distilled as thats what i have anyway as the water in rockingham tastes like swamp water in summer and the residue i get on my distiller goes from brown to suddlenly white being calcium carbinate ( could never get my head around science )
> anyway what in asking is if
> if everyone started from scratch with water the water profile numbers would help someone replicate the beer more easily ?



1. Find out what your water profile is for Rockingham
2. Download the EZ water calculator.
3. Plug in the numbers
4. Start brewing


Bam!


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## eamonnfoley (20/7/12)

Just learn how to control mash pH (acid or acid malt only, no salts) with your tap water before you start playing with water profiles. Otherwise you will come unstuck very very quickly. If your going down this road a decent pH meter is required (with storage solution and calibration solution), otherwise everything is just a guess.


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## QldKev (20/7/12)

I *think *the OP question is related to what target water profile is required for each beer style. At a guess he is planning on using rain/RO water and setting the elements to zeros for the initial water chemistry and building it up from scratch. If so have a read on my website, under howto and water chemistry. A quick overview is given, and in the first paragraph there is a link to a doco with the details you need. 

QldKev


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## NickB (20/7/12)

Chunkious said:


> Thenextgenerationwillbepostingwithoutspacesbetweenthewords.




Worst part is, I'm not that young, but I could read that just fine h34r:


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## drsmurto (20/7/12)

QldKev said:


> Here's some dots and comma's for your question.
> .....
> ,,,,,
> 
> ...



Coming from the person with grammatical issues in his signature, that's funny stuff Kev. :icon_cheers:


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## Bribie G (20/7/12)

spaces and punctuation are relatively recent phenomena. 





To the OP, I use RO water for special brews as the water on Bribie Island nowadays isn't too bad for normal "cookin" brewing. 

When using RO water (you can buy outfits for a couple of hundred dollars that last hundreds of brews) I use Ez water calculator and add various salts such as Calcium Chloride etc to give me the mash pH and malt / hops balance I'm looking for. 

Then.. importantly .. I use a yeast nutrient such as the ones sold at CraftBrewer and other suppliers. 

This provides trace elements and most importantly Zinc. 

If using Bribie water I just do a bit of a rough method and chuck in half a teaspoon of Calcium Chloride for malt driven beers or Sulphates (Magnesium plus a bit of Calcium) for hop driven beers and Aussie style beers - apparently we are traditonally quite sulphatey in Oz. :icon_cheers:


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## QldKev (20/7/12)

DrSmurto said:


> Coming from the person with grammatical issues in his signature, that's funny stuff Kev. :icon_cheers:




At least you can comprehend it without the need to read it multiple times.


I even offered help to the OP, unlike yourself!


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## katzke (20/7/12)

Droughtmaster said:


> ...
> water from distilled as thats what i have anyway as the water in rockingham tastes like swamp water in summer and the residue i get on my distiller goes from brown to suddlenly white being calcium carbinate ...
> anyway what in asking is if
> if everyone started from scratch with water the water profile numbers would help someone replicate the beer more easily ?



I think this is a dead thread as most of the posts have been from asses.

If the asses would have read what the OP said they would find his water is, like their brains, CRAP.

Enough ranting, some posts were helpful.

If I had to brew with distilled water, I would do a lot of reading. I have thought about using Sea Salt as an addition. Why? Because it has trace elements in it. I have no idea if they are the correct elements. The problem is who knows what is in it from bottle to bottle.

Yeast nutrient is a good start. A balance of other brewing salts is good also. With a bit of reading and tossing out the regurgitated misinformation that some beer is brewed with Dead Sea water or the equivalent, you can make some great beer.

Yes if you had a qualified water analysis, you may be able to recreate a brew exactly as someone else brewed it. The problem is brewing is as much art as science. When you get down to the size batches we brew in it gets even harder to replicate exact taste.

So if you do water additions do it for some good reason and not to try and replicate the taste of a beer.

Before Inbev bought them Bud flew samples of every brewery and tasters to a common spot just to make sure the beer tasted the same. Would not want one brewer to out do the others. Every brewery has a full lab to test everything about the ingredients and brewing steps. We do not have labs so will never repeat results.


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## Droughtmaster (20/7/12)

Thanks guys think ill do a bit more reading and see what happens .
Unlike my post yours made perfect sense.
note the dots :beer:


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## Droughtmaster (8/10/12)

Droughtmaster said:


> Thanks guys think ill do a bit more reading and see what happens .
> Unlike my post yours made perfect sense.
> note the dots :beer:



Hey Guys
Did a heap of reading and studying ,still dont understand it completely but have made some head way using beersmith2 with my distilled water as the base water and then put in what i wanted it spat out what to add .
beers tasting prety good after that ,thanks for all ya help 
:icon_cheers:


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## Droughtmaster (8/10/12)

Droughtmaster said:


> Hey Guys
> Did a heap of reading and studying ,still dont understand it completely but have made some head way using beersmith2 with my distilled water as the base water and then put in what i wanted it spat out what to add .
> beers tasting prety good after that ,thanks for all ya help
> :icon_cheers:



found a place well saw there sign anyway in a back street of welshpool that does complete water analisis ill try and get our driver to go by there again and get the address and number, might prove handy for those that need to get water tested ,with me its distilled and add back a teaspoonfull of salts .Water here smells and tastes more like swampwater than it did b4


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## datamike (9/10/12)

foles said:


> Just learn how to control mash pH (acid or acid malt only, no salts) with your tap water before you start playing with water profiles. Otherwise you will come unstuck very very quickly. If your going down this road a decent pH meter is required (with storage solution and calibration solution), otherwise everything is just a guess.



Excellent advice!

Please find attached a "Brewing Water Cheat Sheet" that may clear up some confusion, especially regarding RO water. This document originally started as notes for BJCP exam prep classes I was teaching. (I am a National judge.) It's been refined, edited and peer-reviewed over several years.

Though the basic theories of water treatment are true regardless of the starting water, do keep in mind that I am from the US and most of the US is burdened with high-alkalinity tap water. 

Michael 

View attachment water_discussion.pdf


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