# Carbonated Drops Vs White Sugar



## hoganknowbest (22/9/06)

Hi all

Only been 2 brews old, what works better?
Carbonated drops (coopers or alt brand)
or plain old white sugar that i sprinle on my cereal?

I have used both already
1st HB i used caronated drops and it had great head retention and tasted great! (actully got tipped out cause i didn't like the recipe being a cooper ale,i had never tasted coopers before so i had no comparision)

2nd HB i use white sugar but think i went wrong through the fermentation period somehow, it has no head retention and tastes ok? it was a carlton draught recipe.

Does carbonated drops work better with certain recipes compared to sugar?

You might know this already but....
Next time your HB had poor head, grab a plain white piece of paper and quick use a up & down motion dabbing it in your HB to quickly brink up a good head! Great party trick!


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## jimmy01 (22/9/06)

Hi Scott

Welcome

I always use Carb Drops now as they are less messy. I haven't noticed a difference in head retention betwen white sugar and drops. I have heard a few complaints on this Forum about Carb drops but I honestly can't fault them.

I tried bulk priming into the secondary a couple of times with corn syrup without success. 2 Flat brews - not sure why. 


Best of luck with your brews.


Jimmy :beer:


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## Adamt (22/9/06)

Head retention has nothing at all to do with what sugar you prime with!

Carbonation drops are just preweighed pellets of a sugar, saves you measuring the amount of sugar to put in each bottle.

Read up on bulk priming, its a much easier way to prime instead of buying carb drops, or by putting sugar in each bottle. Bulk priming is when you mix all the sugar in with the beer before bottling, to assure each bottle is carbonated evenly.


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## hoganknowbest (22/9/06)

Adamt said:


> Head retention has nothing at all to do with what sugar you prime with!
> 
> Carbonation drops are just preweighed pellets of a sugar, saves you measuring the amount of sugar to put in each bottle.
> 
> Read up on bulk priming, its a much easier way to prime instead of buying carb drops, or by putting sugar in each bottle. Bulk priming is when you mix all the sugar in with the beer before bottling, to assure each bottle is carbonated evenly.



thanks for the info!
I look into before i try my next HB


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## Coodgee (22/9/06)

really can't see how bulk priming can give a more even distribution of sugar in each bottle. surely the beer at the bottom is going to be more carbonated.


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## devo (22/9/06)

I find the priming drop just easier and cleaner.


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## Ash in Perth (22/9/06)

100% dextrose for bottling, measured with a little sugar measure thing.


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## Whistlingjack (22/9/06)

Worried about consistency?

Calculate the amount of sugar/malt/dextrose/honey etc you need, mix to the required volume with boiled water (eg 30 bottles = 300ml, 24 bottles = 240ml), add 10ml to each bottle using a syringe.

Easy, efficient, consistent...


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## bugwan (22/9/06)

Ash in Perth said:


> 100% dextrose for bottling, measured with a little sugar measure thing.



Ditto.


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## barfridge (22/9/06)

Coodgee said:


> really can't see how bulk priming can give a more even distribution of sugar in each bottle. surely the beer at the bottom is going to be more carbonated.


If, like me, you use a wide variety of bottles, then individual priming is a pain in the arse. Figuring out the right amounts for 330/375ml stubbies, 473ml grolsch swingtops, 500ml english bottles, 640ml PET and 750/800ml tallies will do your head in.

That why I bulk prime. I generally use malt extract, but with the tiny amounts you're adding, it really doesn't make much of a difference.

To ensure the sugar mix is thoroughly distributed, I lay the racking hose around the bottom of the bottling bucket, so when I transfer the beer you get a nice whirlpool effect, mixing everything in nicely. I've never had a problem with inconsistent carbonation doing things this way.


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## Mr Bond (22/9/06)

bugwan said:


> Ash in Perth said:
> 
> 
> > 100% dextrose for bottling, measured with a little sugar measure thing.
> ...



Double that Ditto


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## Tyred (22/9/06)

I normally use carbination drops mainly because I'm lazy. Also, I normally bottle beer to 750 or 375 ml bottles. 

I have bulk primed and it work perfectly for my lager. The stout that I bulk primed didn't work too well. It would have been better if it had been carefully stirred to make sure mixing was complete. About half a dozen nicely carbonated. Quite a few fountains and quite a few lightly carbonated.

It depends on the brew. For 'thicker' brews like stouts, I would recommend stirring to get consistent carbonation. If it's a lighter brew thn the whirlpool generated might be enough.


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## TasChris (22/9/06)

The major advantage of bulk priming over other methods is control of carbonation levels in diffent sized bottles. The major prob with carbonation drops is the inability to vary the amount of carb for different types of beers, ie less carbonation for a stout compared to a lager.
Once mastered I find that bulk prime is less hassle than scoups and syringes.
Chris


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## Stuster (22/9/06)

barfridge said:


> If, like me, you use a wide variety of bottles, then individual priming is a pain in the arse. Figuring out the right amounts for 330/375ml stubbies, 473ml grolsch swingtops, 500ml english bottles, 640ml PET and 750/800ml tallies will do your head in.
> 
> To ensure the sugar mix is thoroughly distributed, I lay the racking hose around the bottom of the bottling bucket, so when I transfer the beer you get a nice whirlpool effect, mixing everything in nicely. I've never had a problem with inconsistent carbonation doing things this way.



Ditto. :super:


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## Benno-5 (22/9/06)

simple solution. Get a couple of kegs and force carbinate. Much quicker, much less work, no sediment (if you rack to secondary) and best of all beer on tap.

Head retention has nothing to do with carbination but rather with the malt itself. If your doing kit brews try adding 150g of wheat malt, this will help with head retention. The other most important thing is a clean glass. That is a glass that had been cvleaned with hot water and no soap. Soap will kill your head.


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## Bizarre (22/9/06)

Carb drops for me - I tried 'em as an experiment ages ago and its all ever use now - can't be arsed scooping sugar into the bottles. Next step for me is kegs - lol - that might be a while cause I gotta convince SWMBO first. I havent been too keen to try bulk priming for the same reason that coogee mentions - I wondered about sugar solution distribution.

CHeers

:chug:


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## goatherder (22/9/06)

No carb drops for me I'm afraid.

I do a "psuedo-bulk" priming where i create a dex/water solution and dose it into each bottle with a syringe. It's a bit of dicking around but I think it's the best of both worlds. I can get the dosage very accurate for the style of beer I'm making and I avoid the contamination/oxidation concerns of a bottling bucket.

I've written up my procedure if anyone is interested:

http://goatherder.googlepages.com/bulkpriming


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## Whistlingjack (22/9/06)

I've tried the lot. Spoons, syringes, drops, etc

Now I force carbonate into kegs. The leftover beer, usually about 4 litres, goes into swing-top bottles with 3/4 spoonful of white sugar.

The most inconsistent method for me was bulk priming. I did rack to the bottling vessel with a hose to the bottom, but never stirred it, being afraid of introducing oxygen. Worked for three out of four brews.


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## Screwtop (22/9/06)

Adamt said:


> Head retention has nothing at all to do with what sugar you prime with!
> 
> Carbonation drops are just preweighed pellets of a sugar, saves you measuring the amount of sugar to put in each bottle.
> 
> Read up on bulk priming, its a much easier way to prime instead of buying carb drops, or by putting sugar in each bottle. Bulk priming is when you mix all the sugar in with the beer before bottling, to assure each bottle is carbonated evenly.




What he says!

WhistlingJack should have stirred not shaken as James Bond said!


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## Whistlingjack (22/9/06)

LOL, Screwtop.

Your comments stirred me up, but I'm not shaken by them.


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## KillerRx4 (23/9/06)

what exactly are the carbonation drops? Are they the same as candi sugar?

when i used to bottle i used them a few times. 

I would eat a few while bottling & they dont taste like sugar. THey taste more like the old hard toffee i had as a kid.


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## lucas (23/9/06)

i cant belive there are people doing AG who dont feel comfortable with bulk priming :huh:


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## Boozy the clown (23/9/06)

I'm a KKK man who does the drop.

Works for me, if the drop looks too small i eat the bugger.


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## Barramundi (23/9/06)

i have used carb drops without any problems , just tried a bulk prime fro the first time so will have to wait and see how that turns out ...
as for scooping sugar into each bottle ive never done that , i used a kangabrew sugar dispenser theyre about $25-30 but well worth it saves a lot of hassle and adjustable for longnecks and stubbies...
now the majority of my brews are kegged so the little grey bottle does all the work for me ....


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## mika (23/9/06)

I'm a drop man, just for ease of use. There seems to be a fair bit of variation in the size between the drops but I don't bother changing it for the now mostly 330mL bottles I use.
I've tried on a couple of occasions dropping 3 drops into a long neck and never noticed a difference.
Never got round to Bulk priming as I generally don't have the spare fermentor and the sugar distribution problems that some people have come across have just put me off.


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## Screwtop (23/9/06)

lucas said:


> i cant belive there are people doing AG who dont feel comfortable with bulk priming :huh:




I'm with him




forget the AG. Anyone who brews and bottles should use this dead simple method, can bottle to any size container.

Easy as shittin in bed an kickin it out with ya foot.


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## Adamt (23/9/06)

Screwtop said:


> Easy as shittin in bed an kickin it out with ya foot.



Charming :S



Coodgee said:


> really can't see how bulk priming can give a more even distribution of sugar in each bottle. surely the beer at the bottom is going to be more carbonated.



If properly stirred (both after adding the solution and during bottling), and the sugar is kept in solution, it will not "sink" to the bottom. Sugar completely dissolves in water in quantities encountered by bulk priming (few hundred grams in 20L). It's possible, yet highly improbable there's any macroscopic difference with the sugar concentration in 2 bottles. A more likely/noticeable situation with bottling is there will be more proteins and other large molecules around the bottom of the bottling bucket that havent completely sedimented but are falling in the beer, perhaps affecting body and head retention. I have never come across any inconsistencies with bottles from which I have bulk primed, definitely not with carbonation.

I ensure I stir very well (without splashing of course) when I add my priming solution and keep stirring every 5 or so bottles.

The syringe idea sounds a go'er if you don't have a bottling bucket or anything. Make sure you keep stirring the priming solution though!


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## Beer Baron (29/9/06)

jimmy01 said:


> Hi Scott
> 
> Welcome
> 
> ...



Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't corn syrup non-fermentable? That would explain why you got flat brews because carbonation depends on fermentation of the priming sugar


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## phonos (29/9/06)

You're right Beer Baron, corn syrup (maltodextron) is basically non fermentable, which means the yeast isn't producing any carbon dioxide - and hence no bubbles. You need to use something fermentable - dextrose (glucose) and white sugar are most popular, although some people use malt or honey.


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## Steve (29/9/06)

Bulk prime with plain white sugar :beerbang: 
Cheers
Steve


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## SJW (29/9/06)

I can't beleive the amount of people that use these things. Why? I guess there is just a lot of people out there that have not got a second container to bulk prime? I would doubt anyone that said that Carb Drops were easier to use than bulk priming, and it only makes about 100% improvement on your final product. But each to there own.

STEVE


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## Trough Lolly (29/9/06)

Before kegging, I bulk primed every time with a 300ml solution of sugar or malt extract - as long as you have a whirlpool from the racking hose, you'll be fine... 

TL


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## Stuster (29/9/06)

Just to clarify Trough Lolly's post before anyone goes off and makes some bottle bombs. I doubt TL means 300g of sugar, but a quantity of sugar dissolved in 300ml of water. I always use Beerisgood's bulk priming calculator to work it out. Promash has one too. (Beersmith?) I do it just like TL. Quick, easy and you can adjust the priming rate for different beers.


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## RobboMC (29/9/06)

I got a bottling bucket for Fathers Day and have had one go with it. Had a lot of trouble with the tubing. I used to use the syring idea but it's very messy, fiddly and time consuming. Turned out sanitising and then washing out the bottling bucket was also messy, fiddly and time consuming. Bottling bucket may be great for different sized bottles, but the syring idea is a great way to go to get away from the sucrose in the drops. When I went to priming with brew enhancer my head seemed to improve a lot.


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## lucas (29/9/06)

in terms of ease

bulk priming > carb drops/sugar scoop > syringe

the beer is only in the bulk priming vessel for well under an hour so it needs little more than a good rinse in hot water, very little additional cleaning in exchange for not stuffing about priming every bottle, nice even carbonation and not having to worry about disturbing the yeast cake while bottling. using an inline irrigation filter means you barely even have to worry about disturbing the cake while racking since clumps will be caught, and the filter can even catch any stray hops.

if all my fermenters were busy id probably use the sugar scoop, or maybe the carb drops (though i object to paying so much for clumps of sugar). 

using a syringe just sounds painful, and i cant wrap my head around how you would make it accurate. you measure out some amount of water, then heat and disolve the sugar into it and now have an unknown quantity of water. how you'd split this evenly between a yet unknown number of bottles I cant imagine. I know I always clean more bottles than i think ill need, i'd doubt any two consecutive 23L batches ended up in the exact same number of bottles.


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## hoganknowbest (29/9/06)

Being an amateur at HB i can't see myself buying all the set up just yet to do bulk priming. From all the post everyone has added to my question it does sound easier to bulk prime, but for now i can't be bothered using my sugar measure so being the lazy person i am.....it's carbonated drops for me!

What is eveyones thoughts on using mapel syrup? only about 30ml or so. Is it a fermentable inclusion?
For use in a draught style recipe with no hopps


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## Adamt (29/9/06)

Yep, you should get some nice mapley flavours.

What you need to do is look on the maple syrup container, and see how much sugar there is per 100mL of the syrup. Work out the amount of white sugar you need, and then work out how much maple syrup you need.


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## hoganknowbest (29/9/06)

Adamt said:


> Yep, you should get some nice mapley flavours.
> 
> What you need to do is look on the maple syrup container, and see how much sugar there is per 100mL of the syrup. Work out the amount of white sugar you need, and then work out how much maple syrup you need.



Mapel syrup = 74g per 100g sugar
I only used a small amount cause i still don't know what i'm doing!


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## hoganknowbest (29/9/06)

What about golden syrup?


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## Whistlingjack (29/9/06)

lucas said:


> the beer is only in the bulk priming vessel for well under an hour so it needs little more than a good rinse in hot water



This is not good sanitation practice. Everything that your beer comes into contact with must be sanitised. Hot water, unless it is steam, will not adequately rid your equipment of nasties.


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## Adamt (29/9/06)

Work out how much total priming sugar you need using BeerIsGood's priming calculator, the link is above.

Multiply it by 100, divide by 74, divide by number of bottles being used and there you have the amount of maple to add to each bottle.

Golden syrup is the same, work out how much sugar is in it and change the numbers.


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## Trough Lolly (29/9/06)

Stuster said:


> Just to clarify Trough Lolly's post before anyone goes off and makes some bottle bombs. I doubt TL means 300g of sugar, but a quantity of sugar dissolved in 300ml of water. I always use Beerisgood's bulk priming calculator to work it out. Promash has one too. (Beersmith?) I do it just like TL. Quick, easy and you can adjust the priming rate for different beers.



Quite so...from memory I used to add around 160g of sugar / dextrose in the 300ml priming solution - more for wheat beers and Eurolagers etc that I wanted well carbonated and less in my old ales and stouts.

Cheers,
TL


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## lucas (29/9/06)

Whistlingjack said:


> lucas said:
> 
> 
> > the beer is only in the bulk priming vessel for well under an hour so it needs little more than a good rinse in hot water
> ...


i _clean_ everything at the end of a brew. I _sanatise_ everything just prior to a brew. hot water is enough to clean the surfaces of a fermenter thats only been used for bulk priming. iodophor kills any nasties on brew day.


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## Whistlingjack (29/9/06)

lucas said:


> Whistlingjack said:
> 
> 
> > lucas said:
> ...



Sorry, lucas. Misinterpreted your post.

I thought you meant rinse with hot water before you prime.


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## jupiter (29/9/06)

a related question, how do sugar-cubes stack up for size? they are a teaspoon right? maybe too big though to fit in the top of a bottle though?


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## Fingerlickin_B (29/9/06)

jupiter said:


> maybe too big though to fit in the top of a bottle though?


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## mike_hillyer (29/9/06)

With standard carbonising, you are adding 0.2 % alcohol, for the British beers I generally make you want less fizz. Hard to wreck a beer using standard secondary fermentation levels, well atleast with my ravished taste buds it is.


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## lucas (30/9/06)

Whistlingjack said:


> lucas said:
> 
> 
> > Whistlingjack said:
> ...


no worries, I was thinking this morning and realised how you must of interpreted it and was about to come back to clear things up. definately sanatise the vessel before you put beer in it, but for me that takes little more than a splash around of the iodophor that im about to use to sanatise the bottles. always clean your stuff just after using it, it makes sanatisation such a non-event you forget to mention it


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