# 200lt Nano Brewery



## Crusty (20/2/13)

If you had the opportunity to start your own little pilot brewery, would you choose to brew with a Braumeister 200lt or a 3V 200lt system?
For those that have been to the Grain & Grape demos & seen the 200lt Braumeister in action, I would especially like to hear from you.
I may be looking at a very big financial gift this year from my parents who wish for me to pursue something I'm passionate about & brewing on a small scale is one option I am considering. Where I end up living is undecided yet but Tasmania is certainly on the radar.
Cheers


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## MastersBrewery (20/2/13)

I supose lining up 10 urns would just get outa hand :huh:


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## Crusty (20/2/13)

MastersBrewery said:


> I supose lining up 10 urns would just get outa hand :huh:


Lol.
It's possible........ :beerbang:


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## doon (20/2/13)

guess it depends what exactly you want to create. Brew pub, brewery, brew shop with fresh wort kits??

There is still then the cost of fermentation tanks and everything else that comes with it, plus licensing stuff etc yeah?

if you were going for something the public is going to see like a brewery or brew pub etc i would go 3 vessel just for the bling factor


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## Cube (20/2/13)

A hundred thousand is not much money especially in view of starting up a business. Having set up two myself, my thoughts are do your homework, do your homework and do your homework on every detail before spending a cent. Pick the brains of anybody in your chosen industry stupid enough to give you information or tips etc. Learn to excel the shit out of everything. Basic excel knowledge is easy to learn and being able to change a few fields and see the whole spreadsheet change ( think Ian's kit spreadsheet and how that works for beer ) is vey helpful. 

Then go all in or go home 

Dumping it into the house mortgage is going to save you huge amounts so that will always be a smart move but if mum and dad are giving it to you to spend as you wish go for it. I'm not sure on gift duty but keep it in mind as the ATO will want to know about it I'm sure.


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## kenlock (20/2/13)

With small scale brewing you will more than likely wanting to be brew multiple times in a day. Efficiency of time dictates that a 3 vessel system will allow you to be doing two brews at once (1 boiling and 1 mashing). Hence, my recommendation would be for a 3 vessel system.

My 2c


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## MastersBrewery (20/2/13)

kenlock said:


> With small scale brewing you will more than likely wanting to be brew multiple times in a day. Efficiency of time dictates that a 3 vessel system will allow you to be doing two brews at once (1 boiling and 1 mashing). Hence, my recommendation would be for a 3 vessel system.
> 
> My 2c


Also with the 200l Brau @ $15500, I dare say for that sort of money you could have beer belly do something perty. Possibly even have a spare HLT or such

Edit missed a zero


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## doon (20/2/13)

black dog brewery is brewing on a beer belly system and seem to be going ok. They do have a winery to back them up though i think


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## brettprevans (20/2/13)

i cant beat cube's advice and having not set up one myself i shouldn't offer advice. so i wont. the only thing i cant think of is that dogfish head started up on a sabco. now yes thats the USA where brewing is a different business I (different business drivers, tax etc. completely different SWOT analysis). On mentioning SWOT, do you have a business plan? so many businesses start without proper strategic planning, no business plan and they screw up their operations. this is where having partners with different expertise can help (and of course hinder). 

I would also physically go see Doc (or at least skype with him). I'd then try and speak with the Kooinda boys (Fents could help you with introductions). I would also speak with Ross.

re location. Doon is correct. location location location. what you want to be will determine where to locate. distribution is everything. your screwed if you get if wrong. pick your market. i highly recommend the 'start your own brewery' books (no that's not the right names but im sure you know the ones i mean). i personally recommend the eastern suburbs of Melbourne....only so i can mooch on your system!!!! 

all the best


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## doon (20/2/13)

probably should do one of those course in the retail thread too


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## brettprevans (20/2/13)

doon said:


> probably should do one of those course in the retail thread too


yeah sure, if youve got money to waste lol!!!


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## booargy (20/2/13)

$60000 should get you set up for tandem skydive master. including jump numbers. then never work another day in your life.


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## Desert Brewer (20/2/13)

Lately I have done a bit of work with a buisiness development arm of the NT Government to try and assist some local fellas set up a small scale, non beer related enterprise. The NTG offers financial and adminastrative assitance to people looking to establish a new small buisness. One hoop you need to jump through is a buisiness viability test, in some cases this has taken upto two years - in alot of cases it has taken the wind out of peoples sails when they have realised that their idea isnt going to fly.

The process really drills down into every concievable scenario that you may encounter and probably ones that you wont. In this case, if you sucessfully jump through this hoop, you are entiteled to some financial assistance to assist with establishment costs,it needs to be a rigorous process because its tax payers dough they are handing out. Once you are through this process then get a buisiness plan

The point here is - its better to invest time and a little bit of cash doing the comprehensive reseacrch , getting professional assitance before investing alot of money and more time, to potentially end up like 50% of small buisness that fail in the first 12 months because they didnt do their homework.

Governments generally encourage new small - medium sizeed buisiness to establish for a swag of reason. Its cheaper for governments to invest time and money into programs that make people aware of what they are getting into rather than picking up expensive ongoing unemployment benifits and legal aid services when they fail. Check out what the local or state gopvernment will or wont do for you,as cube said homework, homework, homework.

Cheers,

DB


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## Crusty (20/2/13)

Thanks for the input guys.
I have looked at a business plan & also spoken to quite a few people in the commercial game who started off in a similar fashion.
I also understand that if you estimate what it will cost to get going, you could probably double that with the many & varied surprises along the way.
My first intention was to get some of my beers into a local establishment, just offering a small supply for customers to review & make comment on.
If it's well perceived, the option is then to make them readily available. I have spoken to a local business man here who is Italian & has his own wood fired pizza & pasta joint. He has a heap of imported beers for his customers & very little mega swill. I have given him some samples to try himself & he has no problem with me bottling some beers & getting some labels sorted out to supply his customers. This is where the legal bullshit comes into play & the costs involved to do that are not worth the return. I did mention to him the idea of selling the wort & letting him do the fermenting but he's time poor so I may be able to work my way round it.
Location is very important & a bad decision on location could be the end before you ever really get going.
The ideal situation for me would be to have a small type of cafe set up where people can come in off the street & sample the beers that we have on tap but the budget won't stretch that far. The craft beer scene is really exploding with reports of micro's popping up all over the country every couple of weeks. Too many so soon may flood the country with too much of a good thing.
This is only one option I am considering so this may just stay at the hobby level.


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## Batz (20/2/13)

I would got the 200lt Braumeister if it as easy as the 50lt you could do it yourself.

I wish you luck with it mate, I'm looking into a few things ATM myself.

batz


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## MastersBrewery (20/2/13)

Batz said:


> I would got the 200lt Braumeister if it as easy as the 50lt you could do it yourself.
> 
> I wish you luck with it mate, I'm looking into a few things ATM myself.
> 
> batz


what always got me was for the price of the 200l you could get 4 x 50l with change and have more variety being brewed, also more managable for one bloke to run, you just need planning in place for those hop additions


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## rippa (20/2/13)

I see Speidel has a 500L Braumeister on their site now...


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## Crusty (20/2/13)

Batz said:


> I would got the 200lt Braumeister if it as easy as the 50lt you could do it yourself.
> 
> I wish you luck with it mate, I'm looking into a few things ATM myself.
> 
> batz


Thanks Batz.
The Braumeister has so much going for it. The mash temp control is a big one.
I've spoken to a couple of guys who work in a micro & they use well insulated mash tuns. They check temp four times for an hour mash & recirculate at certain points but purely to set the grain bed before fly sparging. One or two degrees temp loss in the hour seems to be pretty common, well with the two blokes I spoke to. The BM is a tad over $15,000 + conical's, cool room etc.
A large 3V system will come in well under that but the BM has a few nice little features that I would consider very important.
It's pretty much plug & play & that has some major appeal.


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## Crusty (20/2/13)

rippa said:


> I see Speidel has a 500L Braumeister on their site now...


Yep. Just put down a $10,000.00 deposit on that one............ 
Just kidding. I didn't know that. I'll check that one out.


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## micblair (20/2/13)

You're going to need a HLT to sparge with the bm, that going to be at least a 40L on the 200L I'm guessin'?


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## doon (20/2/13)

Well technically you dont need to sparge on bm


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## MastersBrewery (20/2/13)

micblair said:


> You're going to need a HLT to sparge with the bm, that going to be at least a 40L on the 200L I'm guessin'?


I'm sure crusty still has his 40l urn mate


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## Robbo2234 (20/2/13)

I wonder how much the 500l BM is!


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## roller997 (20/2/13)

If you are looking at getting into the brewing business, I can recommend reading Berwing up a Business by Sam Calagione and the Brewers Association's guide on Starting your own brewery. Brewing up a business was good, but I found to Starting Your Own Brewery better as it was more generic. They go into the issues you can have with councils about the waste water and associated treatment. 
There is quite a lot involved and you may be able to come up with a view on what exactly you want to do as there is quite a cost to bottling and distribution. 
I also suspect that a 500 liter system would be a lot more economical if it becomes successful.

Cheers and best of luck if you decide to go that way.

Roller


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## micblair (20/2/13)

doon said:


> Well technically you dont need to sparge on bm


If I didn't sparge, I wouldn't end up with enough wort in the fermenters with losses to trub and evaporation after a 90 minute boil.



MastersBrewery said:


> I'm sure crusty still has his 40l urn mate


Mate i'm sure he's got a whole manner of equipment I'm not aware of, but if you're going to have to cobble together a whole bunch of extra items to augment a 'single vessel' system, why not just go multi-vessel in the first place? Don't see Newlands, DME or Sint Sebastiaan offering single vessel systems anytime soon either...


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