# Speight's Old Dark 5 Malt Ale



## brettprevans (28/4/07)

Anyone got an idea for a recipe or clone for Speight's Old Dark 5 Malt Ale?

Its a New Zealand beer. the can recons its similar to old scottish and elnglish malt ales.

this stuff is super dark malty in flavour and beautiful


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## Doc (28/4/07)

One of my favourite drops from the past, and I still enjoy a couple of pints when I go home.
No idea on how to replicate with kit/extract. I did have some detailed information on the beer hanging around at one stage (starting, ending gravities, bittering units etc). If I can dig them up I'll post away.

Beers,
Doc


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## brettprevans (28/4/07)

Doc said:


> One of my favourite drops from the past, and I still enjoy a couple of pints when I go home.
> No idea on how to replicate with kit/extract. I did have some detailed information on the beer hanging around at one stage (starting, ending gravities, bittering units etc). If I can dig them up I'll post away.
> 
> Beers,
> Doc



cheers. it will be a start.

also can i get an opinion? currently brewing a stout.
1 blackrock miners stout kit
2kg light malt extract 
250g cracked roasted barley 
10ml liquorice extract 
20g Goldings hop pellets 

was thinking about brewing a Guinness next and thought it might be an idea to use the stout yeast cake at the bottom. ie bottle the current stout then just dump guinness kit striaght onto it.? what do you recon


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## Doc (28/4/07)

I've dug up the specs on Speights Old Dark that I have. 

Style: English Porter
Alcohol: 4.0%
Colour: 90
Bitterness: 23.5
Energy (kilojoules/100ml): 150
Calories (/100ml) 36

Also I had some other notes with some grist details, but I can't find them at the moment. Still looking. If I find them I'll post.

Beers,
Doc


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## domonsura (28/4/07)

The missus and I would both be keen on that recipe too Doc....tastes from home and all that....


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## pickledkiwi2 (1/5/07)

The old dark was a dead set fav in the old country followed closely by the humble gold medal ale. 
I am still working on a kit clone ( I havent gotten in into the full puritan AG brewing yet) for both but still havent come close to doing either justice. 
The closest I have come to the dark is a Muntons Scotish style Heavy Ale with 500 grms LDM, 500grms Amber dried malt 250 grmscorn syrup. After 6 weeks in the bottle this was a good beer but no Old Dark.
Next time I will try adding some hops to balance the malts, it wasnt really dark enough either.

Well that was my rather ordinary first attempt at a clone but will keep trying (and drinking the results regardless).
Cheers 
PK


GO THE MIGHTY HIGHLANDERS!


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## Prawned (1/5/07)

If someone does end up coming up with a simple recipe for this it would be awesome  I never tasted it back home, was always too young.. but dad had to go to the mens room every now and then so stole a swig or two.. from what i remember it was pretty good.. and it would be great to make something like it, think dad is coming over here sometime soon.. when on the phone to him he says "ewww home brew" but i would like to show him different


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## Doc (1/5/07)

I've found the Quality Hotel notepad I scribbled some notes on when I was at Speights a few years back. 
Unfortunately it isn't the detail I thought I had. Mostly it is what I had posted, with the addition of roasted malt and chocolate malt (as if you couldn't figure that one out  )
I need to get my hands on a bottle or two to remind me of the subtle flavours to come up with a recipe. I remember it being quite sweet, and am thinking it is a cross between an English Porter and a Schwartzbier.

Beers,
Doc


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## domonsura (1/5/07)

This was my visit to the brewery the Christmas before last Doc Speights tour

Was a fun little visit, and I was impressed with the Speights Ale House's, ate at them in Queenstown and Dunners and damn good food at both. 
I remember the Old dark being very sweet as well, but I haven't had one for years either as it happens, and I think my beer palate may have 'matured' somewhat since then. When I was home at the same time as the photo's in that link, I bought an insane selection of NZ beers that I had been used to drinking throughout my youth - (i had enough beer in the fridge to keep me in a catatonic state for the whole visit if I had to, I was meeting the inlaws for the first time.....days before our wedding... ) 
As I'm sure others have done in the past, when back in NZ i tend to embark on a reminiscent journey that involves the purchase of a couple of Pat's Pantry potato top mince pies, some L & P, and some Watties t'sauce at the first Caltex service station i see, quickly followed by REAL fish & chips with potato fritters and REAL scallops.....a box of steinies...'ana cruise down Queen street eh bro...
The funniest thing is that the thing I remember most about my last visit is 'green'. Now all the japanese tourists who used to lean over my counter in NZ saying 'velly gleen' whilst ordering their flat white, NOW make sense. :huh: Never made any sense at all until I got out....


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## jaytee (2/5/07)

Here's a giggle, I hope you don't mind Doc ?
Your take on Speights Old Dark, Tue Apr 22, 2003 from the New Zealand yahoo forum
I noticed it awhile back. Whilst an AG receipe I'm sure you could do a straight base grain for LME conversion

Speights Old Dark Clone #1

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

15-A Porter, Robust Porter

Min OG: 1.050 Max OG: 1.065
Min IBU: 25 Max IBU: 45
Min Clr: 30 Max Clr: 90 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 23.50 Wort Size (L): 23.50
Total Grain (kg): 4.70
Anticipated OG: 1.043 Plato: 10.77
Anticipated SRM: 25.3
Anticipated IBU: 19.0
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 30.32 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.033 SG 8.41 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential
Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin
Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
58.5 2.75 kg. Pale Malt(2-row) Great Britain 1.038 3
21.3 1.00 kg. Pilsener Germany 1.038 2
3.6 0.17 kg. Chocolate Malt Great Britain 1.034 475
0.6 0.03 kg. Roasted Barley Great Britain 1.029 575
16.0 0.75 kg. Crystal 90L America 1.033 90

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.

Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil
Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
28.00 g. Goldings - E.K. Whole 4.75 16.9 60 min.
12.00 g. Fuggle Whole 5.00 2.0 15 min.


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP002 English Ale


Water Profile
-------------

Profile:
Profile known for:

Calcium(Ca): 0.0 ppm
Magnesium(Mg): 0.0 ppm
Sodium(Na): 0.0 ppm
Sulfate(SO4): 0.0 ppm
Chloride(Cl): 0.0 ppm
biCarbonate(HCO3): 0.0 ppm

pH: 0.00


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step

Grain kg: 4.70
Water Qts: 17.31 - Before Additional Infusions
Water L: 16.38 - Before Additional Infusions

L Water Per kg Grain: 3.49 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 66 Time: 90
Mash-out Rest Temp : 0 Time: 0
Sparge Temp : 78 Time: 60


Total Mash Volume L: 19.52 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Celsius.


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## Doc (2/5/07)

jaytee said:


> Here's a giggle, I hope you don't mind Doc ?
> Your take on Speights Old Dark, Tue Apr 22, 2003 from the New Zealand yahoo forum
> I noticed it awhile back. Whilst an AG receipe I'm sure you could do a straight base grain for LME conversion



Damm, another blast from the past. I did brew that beer, but from vague memory I don't think it was quite there for body and sweetness. 

Doc


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## Jazman (2/5/07)

domonsura said:


> This was my visit to the brewery the Christmas before last Doc Speights tour
> I'm sure others have done in the past, when back in NZ i tend to embark on a reminiscent journey that involves the purchase of a couple of Pat's Pantry potato top mince pies, some L & P, and some Watties t'sauce at the first Caltex service station i see, quickly followed by REAL fish & chips with potato fritters and REAL scallops.....a box of steinies...'ana cruise down Queen street eh bro...
> 
> 
> love the L & P and of course the real fish and chips .makes me want to go back


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## spog (2/5/07)

be putting this recipe in the to do list,i tried the beer at the ale house a couple of years ago,it goes very well with medium/well done steak (y,know that thick... juicy.... steak ....with salad,chips, sitting in the ale house watching the rain falling as you wash it down with a niiiiice dark ale)  ..cheers...spog..


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## domonsura (2/5/07)

spog said:


> be putting this recipe in the to do list,i tried the beer at the ale house a couple of years ago,it goes very well with medium/well done steak (y,know that thick... juicy.... steak ....with salad,chips, sitting in the ale house watching the rain falling as you wash it down with a niiiiice dark ale)  ..cheers...spog..



Sounds like my afternoon in the Queenstown Speights ale house, raining, damn good food, cute friendly barmaids, excellent beer.........and one very drunk walk back to the hotel room later that night. The perfect day in Queenstown


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## Lukes (3/5/07)

domonsura said:


> Sounds like my afternoon in the *Queenstown Speights ale house*, raining, damn good food, cute friendly barmaids, excellent beer.........and one very drunk walk back to the hotel room later that night. The perfect day in Queenstown



Good stuff...
I had a great time over the ditch last year.
Don't forget the mission in next door to find the dunny.
And a crazy cow pizza for munchies on the way home..

Not long before it starts to snow now.  

Note: Got to put in for some leave over winter and I'm back there sitting in that little courtyard on the metal tractor like chairs drinking Speights with mate's.
:beer: 
- Luke


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## RobboMC (3/5/07)

Check out the new Muntons Dockside Porter. I bottled one in March after getting the kit from Santa. It's a classic English Porter, really malty and highly flavoured. For a kit it's really good beer, if a bit expensive. I've never tasted Speights but sounds very similar.


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## gundaroo (3/5/07)

all this talk about speights and i cannot believe that no one has mentined the king of them all SPEIGHTS DISTINCTION, what a fine drop,does anyone know how to produce anything similar?.my work coleuge and fellow member,has recently loaned me his video of the speights beer ads.very funny ,would recommend grabing a copy if you can find one.


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## Thunderlips (8/8/07)

gundaroo said:


> all this talk about speights and i cannot believe that no one has mentined the king of them all SPEIGHTS DISTINCTION, what a fine drop,does anyone know how to produce anything similar?.my work coleuge and fellow member,has recently loaned me his video of the speights beer ads.very funny ,would recommend grabing a copy if you can find one.


Just tried Speights Gold Medal Ale for the first time this week. Good Stuff.
You can also find some adds over at youtube.com.
Here's a couple.


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## brettprevans (16/11/07)

had my last can of speights old dark last night...interesting to taste. Not sure if it was a bit old or what but it wasnt quite as lively as I remember. although 1 good thing did come out of it....I thought it tasted very much like a kit I put down:

*Choc Stout Mahogony*
1 x coopers Stout, 
1 x Cascade Choc Mahag Porter, 
500g DDME, 
0.25kg Choc Malt Grain 
22L
pitched 0.6L of yeastcake (Wyeast 1098) from a PA 
OG 1.060, FG 1.022, 5.6% (6.1% after bottling)

Now the bitterness of the above was way over the speights (Doc's clone details are below) and there was too much body.
Min OG: 1.050 Max OG: 1.065
Min IBU: 25 Max IBU: 45
Min Clr: 30 Max Clr: 90 Color in SRM, Lovibond

So as a K&K recipe, use a tin of mahogony porter and lowering the stout IBU (not sure how) or maybe adding some LDME to sub the stout and use some hope to bitter
28g. EKG @ 60 min.
12g Fuggle @ 15 min.

So possible recipe might look like
1 x mahogony porter
0.4kg DDME
0.5kg morgans masterblend dark crystal LME (or similar)
0.3kg Choc Malt Grain 
0.150kg Roasted Barley
0.2kg Crystal
28g. EKG @ 60 min.
12g Fuggle @ 15 min.
should give OG1.043, FG 1.012, 4.6%

Im moving onto extracts/partials etc so I probably wont make this but I thought it might be useful to put my idea out there for any K&Ks who were interested.


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