# Amarillo Apa Tips



## Gough (10/3/05)

G'day brewers,

I'm planning on a Cascade free APA style brew for tomorrow night and would like some tips from you experienced Amarillo users out there. I've always used Cascade in my APAs, but have some Amarillo and am keen to try this hop. Any suggestions given your Amarillo experiences? I was reading about TDA's Amarillo Alt earlier - did you end up brewing it again? All tips welcome...

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com

Brewer: Shawn Sherlock
Asst Brewer: 
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 30.63 L
Estimated OG: 1.051 SG
Estimated Color: 14.3 EBC
Estimated IBU: 40.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4.70 kg TF Maris Otter Pale Ale Malt (5.9 EBC) Grain 88.3 % 
0.36 kg JWM Light Munich (19.7 EBC) Grain 6.8 % 
0.13 kg JWM Wheat Malt (3.9 EBC) Grain 2.4 % 
0.13 kg TF Crystal (145.8 EBC) Grain 2.4 % 
22.00 gm Northern Brewer [9.90%] (60 min) Hops 24.1 IBU 
10.00 gm Amarillo Gold [9.00%] (30 min) Hops 7.7 IBU 
15.00 gm Amarillo Gold [9.00%] (15 min) Hops 7.4 IBU 
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [9.00%] (1 min) Hops 0.9 IBU 
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) [StartYeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 5.32 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time 
Mash In Add 13.86 L of water at 73.1 C 66.0 C 90 min


----------



## Ray_Mills (10/3/05)

Shawn
Why are you using Maris Otter
This is great malt for British beers
Use Pilsener malt
Ray


----------



## PeterS (10/3/05)

Gough.

Unwittingly you have answered my problem as mentioned in my post on recipe sites.
You have given me a lead what to brew next. However, I am going to use Traditional Pale Malt with some Cascade as I have them on hand.

Thanks.

:chug:


----------



## Gough (10/3/05)

Ray,

I've got both MO and JW Pilsner Malt in bulk. I've used the MO malt in APA's before, but haven't used the Pilsner malt. I've been happy enough with the MO but had thought about the Pilsner malt after reading a post that this is what Little Creatures use as a base malt. You might have just convinced me...

Peter,
Good luck. Cascade is the major hop for this style. 

Thanks,

Shawn.


----------



## Weizguy (10/3/05)

Shawn,

Is some Vienna malt too far out of style? I added 500g Vienna to an APA. Consumed at about 2 weeks @ a Superbowl party. Evaporated, it did!

Any chance of a tatste, when it's ready? Could swap a bottle of last year's ag Oktoberfest. mmmm tasty. Having one now in a glass from the Kanberra Oktoberfest 2000. Beer has been lagering in the fridge since I brewed it. It maybe time to brew another soon...

Seth out :chug:


----------



## johnno (10/3/05)

Hi Gough,
I have made three APA's with big partial mashes. (3 kilos) and the rest extract. One was made with Ale malt and the other 2 with the Pilsner malt.
I did find the ones made with the Pilsner malt to be a better tasting ale.
Just my 1 cents worth.

johnno


----------



## Steve Lacey (10/3/05)

An American micro-brewing here in Japan makes all his US West Coast style APA/amber/IPA with 100% Marris Otter (well, apart from any specialtygrains) and does not use any Cascade. He uses mainly Centennial and Amarillo, with perhaps some Bullion or Magnum or something for base bittering. He uses only whole hops and uses a lot of late kettle and even some dry hops. His beers are certainly very, very good. Not going out of my way to disagree with Mr Mills, but on this experience I see no problem with Marris Otter. I think the extra maltiness backs up the big hop character perfectly.

Steve


----------



## warrenlw63 (11/3/05)

Steve and Ray, I'm going to be a real fence sitter here. :lol: 

Can't vouch for Amarillo hops (like to get some though).

However when I make an APA I actually subscribe to both camps. I usually make the grainbill a 50/50 combination of Pils and Ale malt. Turns out well too. Works OK in your English Summer Ale styles also.

It was derived from the same confusion. I scoured various recipe sites for APA grain bills and always got varying degrees of answers. Nearly half said Pils, a lot of others said Ale malt, wether it be MO or local malts.

So I took the easy road, 50/50 and never looked back. B) 

Warren -


----------



## THE DRUNK ARAB (11/3/05)

Gough, no unfortunately some other beers got in the way of brewing the Amarillo Alt again.
I can tell you that chiller brewed an excellent all Amarillo pale ale. Not over bittered just really well balanced. Perhaps he can help with your hopping additions.

C&B
TDA


----------



## Darren (11/3/05)

I brewed an psuedo ararillo apa a week ago (Thanks GMK for the hops). It is still fermenting but I am drinking it already (read: I have run out of beer). I don't think you can over-hop with Amarillo.
It is a light beer 1.036 OG. Perle for bittering to 20 IBU. Heaps of Amarillo at 20 min and flame out to 35 IBU.
Certainly not over the top


----------



## Gough (11/3/05)

Thanks for the tips/comments fellas. Appreciated as always  

Weiz: I'll definitely sling you a bottle when it is ready. Love to try the Octoberfest when you can get one to me. It is one of my favourite beer styles. I have Munich but no Vienna, so Munich it is in this recipe. I have a deep love affair with Munich malt... It seems to turn up in most of my recipes somewhere  Maybe next time.

Steve/Warren/Johnno - The last three APA's I've made have all been based on Marris Otter malt and I've been happy with them to be honest. Like I said in response to Ray earlier though I've recently read somewhere (might have been on AHB?) that Little Creatures use Pilsner malt as their base malt so I might give it a try. This APA is experimenting with hops so why not malt as well? I've got both in bulk so I'lll decide when crush time comes  Thanks for your input. Especially interesting to hear about the Japanese beer  

TDA - Bummer. Sounded like an interesting beer!

Darren - Might up the quantities then after your experience. Was a bit conservative given the 9%aa rating. 

Thanks all, we'll see how she goes...

Shawn.


----------



## neonmeate (11/3/05)

warrenlw63 said:


> However when I make an APA I actually subscribe to both camps. I usually make the grainbill a 50/50 combination of Pils and Ale malt. Turns out well too. Works OK in your English Summer Ale styles also.[post="48677"][/post]​



that's what ive found works best too - ive tried all pale and all pils, and these days I like half pils and half of the otter. you get the flavour of the maris otter without the thickness.


----------



## warrenlw63 (11/3/05)

Attention Vic. based Brewers

I was just down at Grain and Grape picking up grains and hops for my latest APA.

Anybody who's looking for Amarillo hops Grain and Grape now have them in stock. Just got them in last week. Think they were reading my mind.

The search is over! :super: 

I was going to use Cascade and Northern Brewer in my APA as per normal. Now I'm using Amarillo and Target. Viva la difference. B) 

Warren -


----------



## Gough (11/3/05)

warrenlw63 said:


> Attention Vic. based Brewers
> 
> I
> I was going to use Cascade and Northern Brewer in my APA as per normal. Now I'm using Amarillo and Target. Viva la difference. B)
> ...



Maybe we can have an Amarillo APA comparison Warrenlw63? Let me know what you reckon.

Shawn.


----------



## warrenlw63 (11/3/05)

Sounds interesting Shawn :super: 

I'm pulling my finger out and getting the thing down on Monday. Public holiday down here in happy, happy Melbourne.  

Here's the setup for 40 litres;

(Haven't finalized hop additions yet, ProMash is on computer down in the garage). I'll probably amend this post later tonight.

4kg Joe White Ale
3kg Joe White Pils
1kg Hoepfner Vienna
400g Joe White Cara Malt (crystal) 40-60EBC
200g Hoepfner CaraPils

Combination of Target (~10%AAU) and Amarillo (~7.5%AAU) hops to about 45-50 IBU

Dumped onto Wyeast 1056 yeast cake from a previous batch of American Brown. OG on my equipment should be around 1.054.

Warren -


----------



## Gough (11/3/05)

Warren,

Was planning on brewing tonight but will now be brewing it tomorrow arvo due to a change in plans. Mine should be around 1051 with 40ish IBU so a touch lighter and less bitter. The diff grain bills and bittering hops will make for a really interesting comparison. I can send you one at bottling time if you like and maybe vice versa. We can exchange details via PM. Should be roughly 3 weeks till bottling and then a fortnight to carbonate if I follow my usual regime for an APA ferment. 

Does this sound like a goer?? It is fine if you aren't keen, just seemed like a bright idea at the time  

Shawn.


----------



## Gough (11/3/05)

By the way, I've used Target in a Porter and a Bitter in the past as a bittering hop and was really happy. Our hbs just got some more in so I might have to grab some.

Shawn.


----------



## Weizguy (11/3/05)

Gough said:


> By the way, I've used Target in a Porter and a Bitter in the past as a bittering hop and was really happy. Our hbs just got some more in so I might have to grab some.
> 
> Shawn.
> [post="48731"][/post]​


Yep, just opened the vacuum-sealed bag on Tuesday for me...
I'm having a go at the Fullers London Pride (again).
BTW, I have used Challenger as a finishing hop in an APA. Still not sure though. I preferred the 50/50 cascade and Willamette plugs as a finishing combo.

Seth's 2 cents


----------



## warrenlw63 (11/3/05)

Nup, sounds good Shawn. :chug: 

I'll keep you updated. I'm a kegger by nature. However I've got a CP filler up in the cupboard that I've not used since I stopped going to HB club meetings.

I'll fill a bottle this way once carbonated. That notwithstanding I'll bung in a carbonation drop or something while I'm kegging. :super: 

Keep posted.

Warren -


----------



## warrenlw63 (11/3/05)

Weizguy said:


> BTW, I have used Challenger as a finishing hop in an APA. Still not sure though. I preferred the 50/50 cascade and Willamette plugs as a finishing combo.
> 
> Seth's 2 cents
> [post="48733"][/post]​



Target are a bloody nice bittering hop considering the high AAUs. Has an OK aroma too. Certainly changed my perspective on high alpha hops. :super: 

Haven't tried Challenger yet, hope they're nothing like Progress. That's one hop for keeping beers rather than short term beers.  

Warren -


----------



## Gough (11/3/05)

warrenlw63 said:


> Nup, sounds good Shawn. :chug:
> 
> I'll keep you updated. I'm a kegger by nature. However I've got a CP filler up in the cupboard that I've not used since I stopped going to HB club meetings.
> 
> ...



No worries. I'll keep in touch. Should be good :beerbang: 

Shawn.


----------



## Jazman (11/3/05)

i have used mo in a apa too with melenidan mal as well with carmunich and it came out well very malty maybe a bit out of style but who cares i like the beer


----------



## sosman (11/3/05)

warrenlw63 said:


> Attention Vic. based Brewers
> 
> I was just down at Grain and Grape picking up grains and hops for my latest APA.
> 
> ...



And anyone who can't get over West, apparently Brewers Den in Boronia has Amarillo.


----------



## warrenlw63 (11/3/05)

Amarillo has hit Victoria like Fire Ants. B) 

Warren -


----------



## Dunkel_Boy (16/7/05)

Guys - how did it turn out?

I'm brewing one on Monday or Tuesday hopefully.

Something along the lines of...
3kg Joe White pils
500g Hoepfner cara-helles
500g Hoepfner caramel
Should be a nice golden 5SRM and a typical 1045SG.

I am going to use all Amarillo (8.5%) and yes, I got them from the Grain and/or Grape in Melbourne... can't wait to use them.

The schedule will probably be...
20-25IBU - 60min
10-15IBU - 30, 20, 10, flameout

Using STOLEN Coopers yeast... hope it works out well.


----------



## Gough (17/7/05)

G'day Dunkel,

Mine turned out well and so did Warren's that he sent me. The Amarillo is excellent and I used it pretty much according to the recipe earlier in the thread - very happy with the brew and will brew it to the same recipe pretty much again.

Your recipe looks good, although I reckon you can aim for 1050OG rather than 1045, but each to their own. I'm also a big fan of Munich in my APAs. I've never used either of those Hoepfner malts though, so they may well be even better in this beer. Just love my Munich malt is all...

Hope it turns out well,

Shawn.


----------



## Ross (17/7/05)

Hi Dunkel,

Just finished drinking this keg last night - bloody gorgeous, not quite as resiny as LCPA & IMO far more drinkable...

Type: All Grain
Date: 29/05/2005 
Batch Size: 26.00 L
Brewer: Ross 
Boil Size: 37.72 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: My Equipment 
Taste Rating(out of 50): 48.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 
Taste Notes: Gorgeous - Rich amarrillo on the nose - hasn't the resiny finish of LCPA 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3.50 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 59.8 % 
1.50 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (1.6 SRM) Grain 25.6 % 
0.50 kg Munich, Dark (Joe White) (15.0 SRM) Grain 8.5 % 
0.20 kg Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 3.4 % 
0.15 kg Crystal (Joe White) (72.0 SRM) Grain 2.6 % 
14.00 gm Northern Brewer [9.90%] (85 min) Hops 14.7 IBU 
26.00 gm Cascade [4.50%] (25 min) Hops 7.5 IBU 
13.00 gm Amarillo [8.50%] (15 min) Hops 5.5 IBU 
13.00 gm Cascade [4.50%] (15 min) Hops 2.9 IBU 
13.00 gm Amarillo [8.50%] (90 min) (Mash Hop) Hops 2.4 IBU 
26.00 gm Cascade [4.50%] (5 min) Hops 2.1 IBU 
33.00 gm Amarillo [8.50%] (20 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops - 
1.00 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 90.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale


----------



## colinw (27/7/05)

I've just received Amarillo, Chinook and Simcoe hops from Brew Your Own in Canberra, and am pondering what to do with them. First batch will be an APA showcasing Amarillo with Chinook for bittering, and a big bold and brassy American IPA is definitely on the cards.

My thoughts on APA recipe are as follows (please shoot holes or otherwise suggest improvements):

For 22 litres at 70% efficiency
(Fiddling HBD with recipator at work, may not align with ProMash values when I enter the recipe at home).

JW Traditionl Ale Malt (2.5L): 2.5kg
JW Export Pilsner Malt (1.6L): 2.0kg
Weyermann Munich II (9L): 500g
Hoepfner CaraPils (1.8L): 100g
Fawcetts Crystal (55L): 150g

Infusion mash, 90 minutes at 67 degrees C.

90 minute boil:
- 10g Chinook (15.3%AA) @ 60 min (18.2 IBU)
- 10g Chinook (15.3%AA) @ 25 min (12.7 IBU)
- 20g Amarillo (9%AA) @ 10 min (7.9 IBU)
- 20g Amarillo (9%AA) @ 1 min (0.9 IBU)
- 30g Amarillo (aroma steep for 20 min before chilling)

OG = 1.052, Colour = 7 SRM, Bitterness = 40 IBUs.

Ferment at 18C with 1 sachet Safale US-56.

At 15.3%AA, the Chinook I bought sure is potent for bittering. I'm considering adding a little bit toward the end as well, eg. 10g Chinook in the aroma steep. I don't intend to dry hop this beer as dry hopped beers always set off my asthma!

I'm currently drinking an APA similar to this recipe except the hops were Northern Brewer and Cascade, and no munich malt. Its bloody beautiful but the woody character of the Northern Brewer does tend to stomp on the Cascade a bit.

cheers,
Colin


----------



## warrenlw63 (27/7/05)

Can't shoot too many holes in that Colin.

Probably wouldn't change a thing. Add more Amarillo late if you wish. Pretty hard to overhop with.

Warren -


----------



## Ross (27/7/05)

Looks on the money to me... :chug:


----------



## Guest Lurker (27/7/05)

Depends how much you like grapefruits in your beer. Bittering with chinook gives a grapefruity bitterness that I like but a lot of people dont. (Remember that bottle I sent you Batz?) I found an APA done in reverse, Amarillo bittering and Amarillo plus Chinook late was more popular with most people. Late chinook adds some nice fruitiness that starts to get close to that lychee/passionfruit type aroma.


----------



## Jazman (27/7/05)

I agrre with with gl u would use amarillo and tame down the chinook as chinook can be very over powering plus the recipe u have is going to be one malty apa


----------



## Gough (27/7/05)

G'day Colin,

I agree with GL on the hopping. Maybe go with something like Northern Brewer for bittering and use the Chinook as part of the finishing/aroma hopping. Seems odd for such a high alpha but I didn't like it much as a bittering hop I have to admit. Of course you may love the flavour, just making a sugestion. I also think you don't really need the Carapils given your malt bill. 

It does look the goods though, with or without these mods. 

Good luck with it,

Shawn.


----------



## Ziggy-san (28/7/05)

Colin -

Amarillo is my foundation hop. I use it in ALL my IPAs and most of my APAs and have a lot of experience with it. 

I just made a continuously hopped IPA with Glacier and Amarillo which came out EXCELLENT. 

I'd throw in 15-20 grams as you runoff the wort for FWH to get some of its florally and fruity flavors. 

I'd also up the Crystal a bit to get some malt to balance the hop bite that the Chinook will give ya.


----------



## THE DRUNK ARAB (28/7/05)

Colin, I also like the looks of your recipe  ! :chug: 

One thing you could try is to bitter your beer with Chinook and Simcoe to make the bitterness more smooth. This I have tried in a recent batch of American Amber and IMO it works well.
Not saying I would be adverse to 100% Chinook as a bittering hop but Simcoe is an excellent bittering hop.

Good luck with it.

C&B
TDA


----------



## colinw (28/7/05)

Thanks all for the feedback.

Does anyone know what the bittering hop in LCPA is? I'm assuming it might be a Cascade + Chinook combo? Whatever it is, I'm not averse to that bitter grapefruit character.

I feel that more than one brew is in order here to explore the combinations, as I bought plenty of Amarillo, Chinook and Simcoe (assuming my club mates don't relieve me of too much more of it before I get to brew myself). I'd say I'll brew one as posted earlier (but a little more crystal), and one with the Chinook reversed with some of the Amarillo - so Amarillo for bittering and a small amount of Chinook mixed in with the flavour & aroma additions. At the rate my friends and I are drinking these batches there's plenty of room for experimentation.

I've taken the recipe suggestions into consideration and will slightly increase my crystal. On reflection my current APA does need a bit more backbone, and a little more crystal and the munich I've added this time will address that.

The CaraPils is non-negotiable  In non-adjunct recipes I always get much a much better head with more lace and a whiter "marshmallow" texture if I use 100g of so of CaraPils or CaraFoam. Not necessary with adjuncts (flaked maize, torrefied wheat).

cheers,
Colin


----------



## Bilph (28/7/05)

Pardon my laziness, Colin, but there were some LCPA hints in this thread on the Grumpy's forum a while back.
I'll leave you to do the reading.

LCPA thread

At quick glance there are very special Cascade in there plus Goldings and Chinook.


----------



## colinw (28/7/05)

Thanks Bilph, that thread very useful indeed and gives me ideas for my next Cascade hopped APA.

Speaking of which , the only Cascade I have at present is the NZ variety - anyone know how it stacks up against the real Pacific Northwest ones? (Yeah, I know - just brew with it and find out)


----------



## johnno (29/7/05)

Here is my hop/grain bill for my amarillo apa. Brewing it this Sunday.

4.50 kg Powells Pilsner (Powells Malts) (3.0 EBC) Grain 82.6 % 
0.40 kg Powells Caramalt (Powells Malt) (22.0 EBC) Grain 7.3 % 
0.30 kg Powells Vienna (Powells Malts) (8.0 EBC) Grain 5.5 % 
0.25 kg Powells Wheat (Powells Malts) (2.0 EBC) Grain 4.6 % 
28.00 gm Amarrilo [8.90%] (60 min) Hops 26.9 IBU 
14.00 gm Amarrilo [8.90%] (30 min) Hops 10.3 IBU 
14.00 gm Amarrilo [8.90%] (5 min) Hops 2.7 IBU 
1 Pkgs Thames Valley Ale Yeast II (Wyeast Labs #1882) [Starter 1500 ml] Yeast-Ale 

Comments welcome. But the grain has been ordered.

cheers
johnno


----------



## Gough (29/7/05)

Looks good Johnno. I'll be keen to hear how the Powells malts go.

Shawn.


----------



## neonmeate (29/7/05)

just thought i'd report on my recent all-FWH amarillo APA. i used a base of bohemian pilsener malt with 100g amber and a bit of carahell and a pinch of cara-aroma, with 90g of amarillo (9%) FWH. yeast was US-56 dried.
calculating FWH as giving IBUs of 20mins gives that as 35 IBUs or something but in the final product it tastes probably closer to 50. do high alpha hops behave differently when fWH'd?
aroma is nice but fairly faint, which is sort of what i expected. and there's plenty of smooth, integrated amarillo fruitiness which seems less "edgy" than late additions - a bit muted in the citric stuff, but nice and smooth.
all in all a nice easy drinkin APA. but i think if i do this sort of thing again i might add 20g for aroma as well.
anyways just thought i'd tell yez all about it seeing as there's a lot of amarillo fans out there.


----------



## Gough (29/7/05)

G'day Neonmeate,

Did you use a rest with the Bo Pils malt or a single infusion as normal?

Shawn.


----------



## johnno (29/7/05)

Gough said:


> Looks good Johnno. I'll be keen to hear how the Powells malts go.
> 
> Shawn.
> [post="69119"][/post]​


Gough,
I have been using their malt for nearly a year now and I have to say I am already happy with it.
Its not like I have been brewing for years and years where I can compare it to other well known Maltsters though.
I suppose i could brew exactly the same beer using JW malts and compare it that way. I just havent had a chance to brew exactly the same recipe twice yet. Maybe for my next APA...after the bock, after the Pils, after the ESB etc etc :lol: 

johnno


----------



## Gough (30/7/05)

johnno said:


> Gough said:
> 
> 
> > Looks good Johnno. I'll be keen to hear how the Powells malts go.
> ...



:lol: :lol: 

Too little time, too much to brew! I'm in the same boat :lol: I'm just interested 'cause I'm thinking of talking my HBS guy into trying some. I've just bought my malt for the next 6 months :beerbang: but maybe a Powell's after that...

Good luck,

Shawn.


----------



## Pumpy (5/2/06)

Gough said:


> G'day brewers,
> 
> I'm planning on a Cascade free APA style brew for tomorrow night and would like some tips from you experienced Amarillo users out there. I've always used Cascade in my APAs, but have some Amarillo and am keen to try this hop. Any suggestions given your Amarillo experiences? I was reading about TDA's Amarillo Alt earlier - did you end up brewing it again? All tips welcome...
> 
> ...




I made Shawn"s APA today I used the JW Pilsner malt as recommended by Ray Mills and the Safale US-56 everything went really well ,just put it in the fermenting fridge, I just wondered if anyone else tried this recipeand what result they got ?

Pumpy


----------



## Vlad the Pale Aler (5/2/06)

It's that weird brewing telepathy karma thing again.
I brewed an all amarillo APA yesterday too.


----------



## Pumpy (5/2/06)

Vlad , I was planning to do an English ale but picked the hops up from the brewshop when I went to get some dried Safale yeast .

I looked up the recipie and checked I had all the ingredients so It was 'Destiny 'that drove me to mash it .There was a strange light in the sky at the time :unsure: but I put that down to the half bottle of bourbon I had the night before .  

May the Hops be with you 'Bro' !!

Pumpy


----------



## Gough (5/2/06)

G'day Pumpy,

Brewed that basic recipe a few times now and been really happy with it. Hope you like it mate  Let me know what you reckon,

Shawn.


----------



## big d (5/2/06)

bit off topic but i used 80grams of amarillo in a pale ale today.mixed with 80g of cascade and 80g of glacier.using the hopburst method so will be very interesting to see how it turns out.good thing i love hops.

cheers
big d


----------



## Kai (5/2/06)

I brewed a hopburst pale ale with amarillo the other day, big d. OG 1.035 with 20g of simcoe and 20g of amarillo at 15 minutes and the same again at flameout. Around 20 litres. It's around 2/3rds fermented at the moment and tasting fantastic.

Have you done any pure glacier beers yet? If so how did they turn out? I have yet to try blending it with other US hops.


----------



## big d (5/2/06)

yep one glacier only but i think i shouldve given the grain bill a bit more dimension.still not too bad a beer and hop.
the true hopburst uses 4 hops and all blended then added at five minute intervals from 30 minute downwards finishing with about 80 grams of blend at flame out.kettle looks a mess afterwards.

cheers
big d


----------



## Kai (5/2/06)

Sorry, guess I've got a fake hopburst. With such a low gravity wort what I had was more than enough to add sufficient bitterness.

And I just remembered I used Glacier with Simcoe in an American wheat, which was an excellent beer.


----------



## Pumpy (5/2/06)

Gough said:


> G'day Pumpy,
> 
> Brewed that basic recipe a few times now and been really happy with it. Hope you like it mate  Let me know what you reckon,
> 
> ...




Will do Shawn , I picked up both these hops with no real purpose and was happy  when I found your recipie that matched the hops & yeast ,I just bought and the grain I had in stock.

Thanks Pumpy


----------



## Tony (6/2/06)

hey Gough

I will vouch for the 50/50 Pils Ale malt combo, its great.

I will say that the ale i have the most positive comments on from VB drinkers was one made with pils malt and some crystal to 16 EBC and hopped with willamette.

might have to re-visit that one

I have bitten the amarillo hop bug and got 100g my self. I have always been an anti-fan of APA's cause they are american and everyone else is making them. I like to be a bit different.

Problem is they are good to drink so i have invested in some WLP001 and some amarillo. I also have a shit load of cascage i bought a while ago to use up so looks like an APA is on the books for the keg.

the keg is a great testing ground for beers before i bottle them for comps.

cheers


----------



## Gough (7/2/06)

Yeah, you've gotta give in to the Amarillo bug eventually Tony :lol: It is a really lovely hop. Whether it is in or out of 'fashion' makes no difference - it just contributes flavours/aroma I love in Yankee style ales  

I've tasted a couple of 50/50 Pils/Ale malt APAs and they've been great. I've personally been sticking with the Ale malt as my base 'cause I'm very happy with my grain bill, but I've been making a few nice 'Golden Ale' styles (if it is a style :huh: ) lately with Pils as the base malt and a Challenger/Amarillo combo or a NB/Amarillo combo. Nice easy drinking summer beers - a touch lower OG than the APA recipe above. Ah the choices... :beerbang: 

Shawn.


----------



## tdh (7/2/06)

Referring back to the FWH query. I have only ever read that FWH'ing will add more bitterness and find it unusual to assume that it will only give an extraction similar to 30 odd minutes.

The FWH hops are in the wort longer than any other additions and go through the complete boil, to me it seems logical that more, if not at least the same, bitterness would be extracted rather than a lot less.
The 'miracle' to me is that a more permanent flavour is achieved.

Any one else have a thought to add?

tdh


----------



## T.D. (7/2/06)

tdh said:


> Referring back to the FWH query. I have only ever read that FWH'ing will add more bitterness and find it unusual to assume that it will only give an extraction similar to 30 odd minutes.
> 
> The FWH hops are in the wort longer than any other additions and go through the complete boil, to me it seems logical that more, if not at least the same, bitterness would be extracted rather than a lot less.
> The 'miracle' to me is that a more permanent flavour is achieved.
> ...



As far as I know that is spot on tdh. I can never figure out why some brewers reduce the boil time for their FWH additions. Its totally contradictory - if your boil time is 60mins, the FWH boil time cannot possibly be less than that, by definition. Not having a go at anybody, just always found it a little puzzling.


----------



## Gough (7/2/06)

Whenever I've FWH'ed a brew I've used a 90 minute calculation for bitterness in my 90 minute boil. Doesn't really make sense to me either to count less extraction given they are in there the whole way. The Beersmith software also seems to calculate it as contributing for the full boil for what it is worth. 

There does seem to be a big school of thought running against counting the IBUs for the full boil though. Anyone enlighten us?

Shawn.


----------



## Ross (7/2/06)

Gough said:


> Whenever I've FWH'ed a brew I've used a 90 minute calculation for bitterness in my 90 minute boil. Doesn't really make sense to me either to count less extraction given they are in there the whole way. The Beersmith software also seems to calculate it as contributing for the full boil for what it is worth.
> 
> There does seem to be a big school of thought running against counting the IBUs for the full boil though. Anyone enlighten us?
> 
> ...



Gough,

I always thought they added full bitterness & it was only mash hops that didn't...
As you say, they're in there for the full boil, so I don't see how there could be any difference :blink: ... But keen to see any evidence to the contrary...

cheers Ross


----------



## KoNG (7/2/06)

My Next Brew (2 weeks) is to be an APA loaded with Amarillo and i was planning to try a little FWH with the last of some NB i have.. might also add some Amarillo for the hell of it.
i was planning on using the FULL boil length for my bittering calculation... and must say i'm with Ross on this one, i always thought that it was 'in mash' hopping that gave the reduced boil value.
With FWH i was of the belief that it still gave the same IBU's as the full boil, but the bitterness was meant to have less edge and be a bit 'softer' if you will...


----------



## Gough (7/2/06)

That's basically what we all seem to be asking Kong. When you read recipes/discussion of FWH some brewers seem to count the bitterness as less than a full boil which doesn't make sense to me - I've just always used full boil figures when calculating and the resulting beers have tasted as I'd have expected in terms of that level of predicted bitterness. Just trying to get to the heart of the matter - why do some brewers count less extraction when FWH?  

Shawn.


----------



## T.D. (7/2/06)

Ross said:


> I always thought they added full bitterness & it was only mash hops that didn't...
> As you say, they're in there for the full boil, so I don't see how there could be any difference :blink: ... But keen to see any evidence to the contrary...
> 
> cheers Ross
> [post="107094"][/post]​



Yeah, I agree, but in Beersmith I'm pretty sure even the mash hops are entered as being in the boil for the full time - its just a reduced utilisation factor for mash hopping since the clear majority of the actual hops are left in the mash tun.

Kong, FWH will yield a bee's dick more bitterness than a regular boil (of equivalent time). And yeah, the beauty of it is the smoother bitterness. I think its a great method. If you have dual purpose hops (like NB or Amarillo etc) its a great way to bitter - more hop flavour, and smoother bitterness. Sounds like a win win to me!


----------



## KoNG (7/2/06)

back through the thread i recall a post talking of FWH (i think Johnno) to 25 or 30 IBU's and he believed it ended up much more like 50 IBU's....
so i guess that answers it. hmmmmm


----------



## warrenlw63 (7/2/06)

Ah, a good old FWH argument. :lol: 

By the late, great Dr. George Fix. This may be worth a read :beerbang: ;

here

Warren -


----------



## T.D. (7/2/06)

KoNG said:


> back through the thread i recall a post talking of FWH (i think Johnno) to 25 or 30 IBU's and he believed it ended up much more like 50 IBU's....
> so i guess that answers it. hmmmmm
> [post="107101"][/post]​



I haven't re-read the post you are talking about but from memory this was one of the situations where the FWH time was reduced to less than the boil time. So the bitterness calculation was much lower (say 25-30 IBUs), when if the hops were in fact boiled for the full time (which they would have to be by definition) the bitterness would have been much greater (say around that 50 IBU mark). The bitterness extraction from FWH additions are greater than with a regular boil, but the difference is nowhere near 20-25 IBUs. It would be maybe 1 or 2 IBUs max. 

:beerbang:


----------



## KoNG (7/2/06)

warrenlw63 said:


> Ah, a good old FWH argument. :lol:
> 
> By the late, great Dr. George Fix. This may be worth a read :beerbang: ;
> 
> ...




Yep that nails it Warren... nice link.


----------



## bindi (7/2/06)

Thanks Warren  good read, I started doing this for the last few AGs after reading this, mind you I had nothing to compare them with, tasted great to me

http://www.promash.com/TipsNTricks/CommonTasks/FWH.html by the way, how do you guys do that link thingie <_<


----------



## KoNG (7/2/06)

T.D. said:


> I haven't re-read the post you are talking about but from memory this was one of the situations where the FWH time was reduced to less than the boil time. [post="107105"][/post]​



Yes your right i believe it was, which was my point. that FWH rates should not be reduced to 30-20 minute additions :blink: 

Anyways.. to get back on topic, my APA next weekend will be FWH'd with NB and a little amarillo. amarillo to finish everywhere else.


----------



## KoNG (7/2/06)

bindi said:


> by the way, how do you guys do that link thingie <_<
> [post="107109"][/post]​



when you reply there is a few grey boxes above... one of them is the Hyperlink box it looks like this http://
B)


----------



## johnno (7/2/06)

KoNG said:


> back through the thread i recall a post talking of FWH (i think Johnno) to 25 or 30 IBU's and he believed it ended up much more like 50 IBU's....
> so i guess that answers it. hmmmmm
> [post="107101"][/post]​




Hi KoNG,
Not me as I have not used the FWH method yet.

But I can highly recommend Amarillo. If you like the US hops then this one is a beauty.

johnno


----------



## T.D. (7/2/06)

KoNG said:


> T.D. said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't re-read the post you are talking about but from memory this was one of the situations where the FWH time was reduced to less than the boil time. [post="107105"][/post]​
> ...



Sorry mate, I think I misunderstood your post a tad there - thought you were saying that FWH yielded almost double the IBU than a regular boil addition! I get what you were saying now though...

I've got a bit of an amarillo stockpile at the moment too - maybe a 100% amarillo ale is on the cards - mash hop, FWH, and late additions. I always cringe to see amarillo used for bittering (because its sooo good for late additions) but I can tolerate it much more if its FWH! B)


----------



## KoNG (7/2/06)

neonmeate said:


> just thought i'd report on my recent all-FWH amarillo APA. i used a base of bohemian pilsener malt with 100g amber and a bit of carahell and a pinch of cara-aroma, with 90g of amarillo (9%) FWH. yeast was US-56 dried.
> calculating FWH as giving IBUs of 20mins gives that as 35 IBUs or something but in the final product it tastes probably closer to 50. do high alpha hops behave differently when fWH'd?
> [post="69179"][/post]​



Sorry Johnno, it was Neonmeate.........


----------



## KoNG (20/2/06)

Got my APA down early on saturday morning, pitched yeast saturday night.
Everything went to plan except for a small boil over and the resulting loss of some of my First Wort Hops  . Loss was minimal though.
She tasted great going into the fermenter... so here's hoping its even better coming out of the ferm. The US56 still hasnt kicked off, but @ 16-17*C thats to be expected. 
Here's the recipe.....
(excuse the fact it isnt 100% amarillo, but i just cant go past some of that great cascade bite :blink: )

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Golden Bee 14
Brewer: Dowdy
Asst Brewer: Rat
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 24.00 L 
Boil Size: 30.34 L
Estimated OG: 1.051 SG
Estimated Color: 15.9 EBC
Estimated IBU: 40.5 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
5500.00 gm Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.Grain 91.7 % 
200.00 gm Crystal (Joe White) (141.8 EBC) Grain 3.3 % 
200.00 gm Wheat Malt - JWM (3.5 EBC) Grain 3.3 % 
100.00 gm Caramalt (Joe White) (49.3 EBC) Grain 1.7 % 
10.00 gm Northern Brewer [11.00%] (60 min) (First Hops 12.6 IBU 
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (20 min) Hops 10.7 IBU 
20.00 gm Cascade [5.50%] (20 min) Hops 7.0 IBU 
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (10 min) Hops 6.4 IBU 
10.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (5 min) Hops 1.8 IBU 
10.00 gm Cascade [5.50%] (5 min) Hops 1.1 IBU 
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (1 min) Hops 0.8 IBU 
1 Pkgs SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-56) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 6000.00 gm
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time 
Mash In Add 18.00 L of water at 73.6 C 67.8 C 60 min


----------



## agro (20/2/06)

Looks nice. I bottled my first Amarillo/Cascade APA and can already see I will be making a few of these.

I may give your recipe a go for my first all grain in a week or so 

Cheers
Agro.


----------



## mikem108 (20/2/06)

Made something very simular on the wekend except I threw in a few Chinook additions.
Pilsner Malt 4.1Kg
Crystal 300gms
Torrified wheat 100gms
Black Patent 40gms
66C mash 90mins
amarillo/chinook 60
cascade plug 30
Chinook/cascade/amarillo 1 min
us56 yeast
Its crawling out of the fermenter currently


----------



## James Squire (8/6/06)

Just a quick one guys. I have a brew in primary at the moment that was just a partial (not much spare time but not much beer left either!) with 1.7Kg Light Extract, 1.5Kg Wheat extract, 250g steeped crystal. NB @60mins to 33IBU's and 1/2g per Litre [email protected] 10 mins and another 1/2g per Litre at flameout.

My question is regarding dry hopping. I am intending on kegging this brew (as the keg is running low!) and thought I might give dry hopping my first try. I wondered what everyones thought would be on using a 'tea ball' like the picture by hooking the chain around the dip tube in the keg and leaving it in there whilst drinking the brew? Has anyone done this before?

Also just on that, if I was to dry hop 18L in the keg using this method, how much of Ross's Amarillo (8.5% I think) would be sufficient? Be gentle.... it's my first time! h34r: 

Cheers :beer: ,

JS


----------



## Ross (8/6/06)

1 gm per litre is a good starting point - I tend to use 2.5gm/L.
I believe Jye is trialling one of these. For your first go, I'd be rcommending dry hopping now, either in the primary or secondary - keg after minimum 3 days, preferably 5.

cheers Ross


----------



## James Squire (8/6/06)

Thanks Ross, 

1gm per Litre it is then! I'll follow your advice and throw it into the fermentor and keg after 5 or so days.

I guess im interested in knowing if having the hops in the kegged beer whilst drinking is likely to be an issue? I read that some people dry hop while CC'ing for weeks and weeks so Im guessing that side of things wouldn't be an issue. I guess the possible issue could be that whilst consuming the beer the hop weight to beer volume ratio (gm/L) is increasing all the time... but surely that becomes less of a concern after a period of time once the hops have been completely utilised....

Just a few guesses anyway...

Thanks Ross,

JS

Edit: Ooooh... Great Head now! Sweet!


----------



## Jye (8/6/06)

James Squire said:


> My question is regarding dry hopping. I am intending on kegging this brew (as the keg is running low!) and thought I might give dry hopping my first try. I wondered what everyones thought would be on using a 'tea ball' like the picture by hooking the chain around the dip tube in the keg and leaving it in there whilst drinking the brew? Has anyone done this before?
> View attachment 7645



The short answer is I wouldnt used it with pellets  I tried a 7cm tea ball which is the biggest I could find (looks more like a cylinder) and stuck it in a 4L jar with 20g of pellets so I could watch what happened over the next few days. Some of the pellets got through the mesh and even more it you bumped it. If I was going to use one to dry hop in a keg I would only use plugs and one per cage because they swell heaps.

Cheers
Jye


----------



## James Squire (8/6/06)

Thanks for the tip Jye. Thats a good little experiment you ran there, I wish I had of thought of it! Leaving the dry hopping for secondary sounds the way to go! 

Cheers
JS


----------



## stephen (8/6/06)

James Squire said:


> Just a quick one guys. I have a brew in primary at the moment that was just a partial (not much spare time but not much beer left either!) with 1.7Kg Light Extract, 1.5Kg Wheat extract, 250g steeped crystal. NB @60mins to 33IBU's and 1/2g per Litre [email protected] 10 mins and another 1/2g per Litre at flameout.
> 
> My question is regarding dry hopping. I am intending on kegging this brew (as the keg is running low!) and thought I might give dry hopping my first try. I wondered what everyones thought would be on using a 'tea ball' like the picture by hooking the chain around the dip tube in the keg and leaving it in there whilst drinking the brew? Has anyone done this before?
> 
> ...


I've these before and, as Jye found, I also found out about pellets - Forget it! As for plugs I have used one plug in the tea ball - mine is about tennis ball size and that's about all you can fit once they swell up. First time I used it with the plug I just put it in secondary. Unfortunately all the crud that settles out covered the tea ball and seemed to stop the infusion of the hop aroma. 

Second time I used some crochet cotton (thin fishing line would suffice) and tied around the grommet for the airlock and let it dangle in the fermenter. This woorked much better in my opinion. 

As for placing in the keg, your turn for experimenting and letting the rest of AHB know how it goes.  
Cheers

Steve


----------



## matti (26/10/07)

Going to pick up my gear today.
I have been considering trying a single infusion mash to run the gear in. Once I have set it up.
A few weeks in planning but here is as recipe inspired by Kaboobys APA but with amarillo.

APA Kamatti

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

10-A American Ale, American Pale Ale

Min OG: 1.045 Max OG: 1.060
Min IBU: 30 Max IBU: 54
Min Clr: 5 Max Clr: 14 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 40.00 Wort Size (L): 40.00
Total Grain (kg): 8.85
Anticipated OG: 1.053 Plato: 12.98
Anticipated SRM: 6.6
Anticipated IBU: 33.6
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 51.61 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.041 SG 10.16 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 3 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Extract SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
65.5 5.80 kg. JWM Traditional Ale Malt Australia 1.034 3
19.2 1.70 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 1.010 2
6.8 0.60 kg. JWM Caramalt Australia 1.003 28
5.6 0.50 kg. Weyermann Vienna Germany 1.003 4
2.8 0.25 kg. JWM Wheat Malt Australia 1.002 2

Exract represented as SG.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
20.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 9.70 15.7 60 min.
15.00 g. Cascade Pellet 5.50 6.7 60 min.
10.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 9.70 7.1 45 min.
15.00 g. Cascade Pellet 5.50 3.4 30 min.
5.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 9.70 0.7 5 min.


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP001 California Ale


Water Profile
-------------

Profile: Ingleburn Town water (soft pH: 7.5-8.0)

May adjust water with gypsum. 


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step

Grain kg: 8.85
Water Qts: 30.11 - Before Additional Infusions
Water L: 28.49 - Before Additional Infusions

L Water Per kg Grain: 3.22 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 66 Time: 70
Mash-out Rest Temp : 76 Time: 10
Sparge Temp : 78 Time: 40


Total Mash Volume L: 34.40 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Celsius.

Tips/ pro and cons welcome
Cheers


----------



## mikem108 (26/10/07)

James Squire said:


> View attachment 7645



I've tried the gadget in the photo as well and find that the pin holding the clasp is prone to rust out and disappear into the beer, gives the beer a metallic flavour. I didn't mine from Ross so maybe thats the problem <_<


----------



## oldbugman (26/10/07)

I use the ones from ross, havent noticed any hops getting out of them.

I make sure I give it a good inspection before it goes in, but I havent left any in for an long stay in the keg. normally a week or two tops.

Though I'm planning an IPA to have a couple of these in there for a while.


----------



## Tony (26/10/07)

James Squire said:


> how much of Ross's Amarillo (8.5% I think) would be sufficient?



Is that a new strain you are growing from home Ross?

Is it similar to the normal Amarillo

:lol:  

cheers


----------



## Stuster (26/10/07)

Matti, I'm not sure exactly what kind of beer you are after which makes it hard to comment on the recipe. :huh: I'd add more hops later in the boil than you have there. I'd say you could add at least 15g of Cascade and Amarillo at 15 and 0 for an APA. But that's assuming you want a fairly hoppy flavour and aroma.


----------



## jayse (26/10/07)

I'll add a couple first glance thoughts.



matti said:


> Anticipated OG: 1.053 Plato: 12.98
> Anticipated SRM: 6.6
> Anticipated IBU: 33.6



You could closer to 40IBU for a pale ale at 1.053.



matti said:


> Grain/Extract/Sugar
> 
> % Amount Name Origin Extract SRM
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ...



The vienna won't really make much difference if you left it out and just upped the ale malt being its only 5%. Vienna is generally a malt you'd use more like a base malt. Off course you can leave it in no worries aswell just pointing out it won't make a difference.

The only real thing with this recipe to me is I really don't like that JWM caramalt, I think it was wes that said it was designed for use in small amounts in aussie swill etc.
5% of a better quality medium crystal would be the way I'd go, either bairds or weyerman caramunich II.





matti said:


> Hops
> 
> Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ...



Not really much in the way of finishing hops for a APA really for my liking.

Anyway as is the recipe will make a reasonble beer for sure, just adding what i'd change.


----------



## Steve (26/10/07)

jayse said:


> Not really much in the way of finishing hops for a APA really for my liking.



agree...ppppphfhttttt 5 gms at 5 mins? Whats that 3 pellets?, hardly worth re-setting the timer - chuck in 15-20gms each of cascade and amarillo at 5 mins B)

edit....and the same at 0 mins


----------



## Tony (26/10/07)

generally with APA,s as the time remaining to boil decreases the hop adition size increases.

as said before..... add 20g of each at flame out

also i would drop the pilsner and use the vienna instead, great bready malty character base malt.

drop the caramalt and go with something like the bairds light crystal at 100 EBC. Its yummy stuff too. beautiful sweet malt to ballance out those hops.

cheers


----------



## matti (26/10/07)

Cheers all.

I will properly change the JWP for Wyermanvienna and see what crystal available when I get to brew this.
I Also planned to dry hop this with 1g amarilloe and 1g Cascade per litre o second for a week.
Thinking to up the IBU with amarillo at befinning and finnishing hops a little of both say 5g of each @ o min.

Probably will down size the batch to a 30 litre as my mash tun is a 36 litre Keep Cool cooler.
It will be while before it all ready to go.
over and out cherio all


----------



## Tony (26/10/07)

i have always much prefered the aroma from a flame out addition than the grassyness of dry hopping.

just me though

10g of hops in 30 liters doesnt make it to the APA class..... you need big hop flavour and aroma

anyway...... will be a nice beer

cheers


----------



## oldbugman (26/10/07)

I'm with tony on this.. I preffer an upp'd 0min addition to dry hopping.


----------



## Pumpy (27/10/07)

Ross said:


> 1 gm per litre is a good starting point - I tend to use 2.5gm/L.
> I believe Jye is trialling one of these. For your first go, I'd be rcommending dry hopping now, either in the primary or secondary - keg after minimum 3 days, preferably 5.
> 
> cheers Ross




I just dry hopped at the rate of 1gm litre based on this post and Franko recommendation in the Little Creatures Bright ale we made 

I crushed the Amarillo pellets in a motar and pestle tand mixed them with some beer and poured ino the fermenter as it annoys me when they float, these sunk immediately.

hope it works .

Pumpy :unsure:


----------



## mfdes (27/10/07)

Anyone tried letting the hops for dry hopping sit for 24h in the open at room temperature in a shallow bowl to drive off the myrcene, as per the instructions given by the hop guru in an episode of Basic Brewing Radio?
Supposedly it makes a big difference to the aroma. However, I'm quite partial to the grassiness myself.

MFS.


----------



## Franko (27/10/07)

The results of dry hopping amarillo after a week has been sensational and the aroma is unreal.



Franko


----------



## matti (30/10/07)

Here goes.
I planned a brewday on Monday but SWMBO decided otherwise.
After a gruelling 12 hour day I decided it was time to brew since my octoberfest failed and turned into pine apple juice.
(Stressed and infected yeast plus inadequate aeration.)
Well thats my story and I stick to it.

Here's my partial attempt APA

30L

1.5 kg Morgans' unhopped pale LME
1.5 kgs Blackrocks' Blond LME
2 kgs JWM ale malt
150g Dark brown sugar
200g JWM Crystal (140)
25g Dark Chocolate malt.

75 min boil

20g cascade 3%AA 60 min
20g Amarillo 9.5% AA 60 min
15g cascade 3%AA 20 min
15g Amarillo 9.5% AA 20 min
15g cascade 3%AA flame out
15g Amarillo 9.5% AA flame out


Mash the grain @ 65
boiled LME last 5 min

I put into Promash and came out around 1.047 and 34 Ibu

gotto finnish the job now.
I got to try out my mash tun and immersion heater. make thing a lot easier I tell you


----------



## matti (3/11/07)

I am not intending to use broadband width for a brew-log  
Just a question or two.
I browsed through previous post on threads.
Looking at the desperate recipe I put in, it lacks of malt flavor.

I tried the hydro sample just then at 1.010 and the Amarillo is overpowering but no grassy affect at all.
(I ran the cooled wort through hop-sock into fermenter inspired by some hop filter threads.)

Are these assumption OK

1. Hops like Amarillo for flavor need to be use sparingly/ to taste.

2. Use a yeast that balances the malt your are using (US-05 is out)

3. Prime with dry malt when all things fail, if you're bottling!

Matti


----------



## Fents (3/11/07)

Just put this one. Tomahawk for bittering tho cause i dont like the way amarillo bitter's.

Batch Size: 31.00 L 
Boil Size: 39.21 L
Estimated OG: 1.053 SG
Estimated Color: 10.3 EBC
Estimated IBU: 37.5 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
7.20 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.9Grain 90.0 % 
0.80 kg Carafoam (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 10.0 % 
25.00 gm Columbus (Tomahawk) [16.40%] (60 min) Hops 32.7 IBU 
10.00 gm Amarillo [8.60%] (25 min) Hops 4.8 IBU 
25.00 gm Amarillo [8.60%] (0 min) Hops - 
1 Pkgs SafAle American Ale (US56) (DCL Yeast #S-05Yeast-Ale 


should be :chug:


----------



## Stuster (3/11/07)

Matti

1. Yep, you'll need to use hops to taste. That doesn't necessarily mean sparingly though, as some of us love them hops. :icon_drool2: 

2. I think that's a good point, although US-05 does work for APAs, but if you are looking for a malty beer, I don't think it works very well.

3. I'm not sure the dry malt will make that much difference, but it's worth a shot. One thing I think you will find is that the beer will taste more malty once it's carbed up. So don't give up on this beer just yet. And if the hoppiness is too much for you at first, give it a few more weeks in the bottle. It's partly an acquired taste though, so if you have enough hops, you'll grow to love them. :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## matti (3/11/07)

> And if the hoppiness is too much for you at first, give it a few more weeks in the bottle. It's partly an acquired taste though, so if you have enough hops, you'll grow to love them. icon_chickcheers.gif



cheers. 
flavor certainly does change with bottling and allow for more complexity as i store them in garage.

Never given up on a beer up yet....


----------



## Maxt (3/11/07)

I suppose it's all about the beer! If you want to make an APA, then citrusy hops need to dominate, and the yeast should accentuate that, not the malt. If you want to make a beer that is less hoppy and more malty, then it's not neccessarily an APA, just a beer that you like, which is fine as well.
Perhaps you should consider a California Common?
http://www.bjcp.org/styles04/Category7.html


----------



## Jye (3/11/07)

Maxt said:


> I suppose it's all about the beer! If you want to make an APA, then *citrusy* hops need to *dominate*, and the yeast should accentuate that, not the malt.



APAs dont necessarily need to have citrus characteristics, its just common that they do. But some judges also seem to look for it in the style as I recently found out from some feed back... and for some reason that really bugs me <_<


----------



## Stuster (3/11/07)

Jye said:


> APAs dont necessarily need to have citrus characteristics, its just common that they do. But some judges also seem to look for it in the style as I recently found out from some feed back... and for some reason that really bugs me <_<



Very true, though for some reason I've never had trouble with that on my APAs in comps.  Snippets from the BJCP description of APAs.



> Aroma: A citrusy hop character is very common, but not required.
> 
> Flavour: Usually a moderate to high hop flavor, often showing a citrusy American hop character (although other hop varieties may be used).



So which hops did you use, Jye?


----------



## Jye (3/11/07)

Stuster said:


> So which hops did you use, Jye?



Amarillo, Simcoe and a bit of centennial, I think the problem was that it didnt reek of C hops.


----------



## Stuster (3/11/07)

Jye said:


> Amarillo, Simcoe and a bit of centennial, I think the problem was that it didn't reek of C hops.



That sounds like a great mix. Judges. Pah. What would they know? :lol: 

Actually, I was judging the pale ale section of the NSW comp (all hate mail this way I guess  ) and it was a big flight (21 beers), including some English and American IPAs (and one doppelbock  ) so if those later beers didn't have some serious hopping, they were probably doomed.


----------



## Maxt (4/11/07)

You're right Jye, should read the style guidelines more carefully!

Would love to see the stats on which beers medal in pale ale catagories, and where they were in the flight.
After the 20th super amarillo/cascade hopped beer, exactly how well are you tasting?


----------



## matti (5/11/07)

> 30L
> 
> 1.5 kg Morgans' unhopped pale LME
> 1.5 kgs Blackrocks' Blond LME
> ...



I racked this to secondary today and not your typical APA. Very Amarilloish drop. 
matti


----------



## matti (10/11/07)

I am going to bottle my Amarillo/ (where is the) Cascade flavored beer on Monday.

The Amarillo bittering in my recipe above is a bit too much in my opinion.

Will this subside with age and get better with carbonation?


----------



## warra48 (21/11/07)

I brewed an Amarillo Pale Ale recently, and I'm now drinking them. 
I'll probably sound like a Philistine, but have come to the conclusion I do not like Amarillo as a hop and won't use it again. I just don't like what, to me, is a fruit salad like aroma and flavour, and much prefer the citrus character of Cascade.
There, I've said it, and I'm now ducking for cover. ^_^    
However, taste is an individual thing. If I'm spending 4 to 5 hours to put a brew together, I like to at least enjoy the result.


----------



## Tony (21/11/07)

:lol: I tend to agree Warra48. ITs better with some conditioning in the keg to mellow it but is better mixed with other hops.

I have not been scared to say over the years that "I dont like Cascade" I dont hate it but i would rather use other hops. I get some weird looks when i say that around other brewers but as you said..... taste is an individual thing.

I just made a golden ale with amarillo but mixed it with hersbucker and some D-SAAZ.

Smells bloody antastic irmenting. 

cheers


----------



## roach (21/11/07)

i find a mix of centennial, amarillo and chinook work a treat together a produce a cracker APA or american IPA


----------



## Stuster (21/11/07)

_* Puts warra on the ignore list. *_ :angry: 



Not really. I love an all Amarillo ale, but there's no reason why you should. It's one of the beauties of brewing that you can make the beer that exactly suits you.  

And if you can't think of anything to do with all that beer, I'll be happy to dispose of it for you. :lol:


----------



## browndog (21/11/07)

I have to agree with Warra48 here, I brewed an all amerillo APA once and it had a yuck factor that I've not experienced with other US hops, can't put my finger on it now, but just remember feeling dissapointed and vowing never to try it again. Currently drinking a Simcoe/Amerillo APA, that is very tasty.

cheers

Browndog


----------



## /// (21/11/07)

warra48 said:


> I brewed an Amarillo Pale Ale recently, and I'm now drinking them.
> I'll probably sound like a Philistine, but have come to the conclusion I do not like Amarillo as a hop and won't use it again. I just don't like what, to me, is a fruit salad like aroma and flavour, and much prefer the citrus character of Cascade.
> There, I've said it, and I'm now ducking for cover. ^_^
> However, taste is an individual thing. If I'm spending 4 to 5 hours to put a brew together, I like to at least enjoy the result.



I think mixed with other hops as I use or as handled by JS is great. Sadly beers like Knapstein taste like petrol/kerosene from the hop and are fairly undrinkable.

Usually i find if you point out the petrol/kerosene profile out to folks and they instantly turn against it...

so i am with you mate...

Scotty


----------



## Stuster (21/11/07)

/// said:


> Sadly beers like Knapstein taste like petrol/kerosene from the hop and are fairly undrinkable.



Right. But Knappstein uses Nelson Sauvin rather than Amarillo. :lol: 

I done associate that beer or that hop with petrol. :huh:


----------



## Ross (21/11/07)

Stuster said:


> Right. But Knappstein uses Nelson Sauvin rather than Amarillo. :lol:
> 
> I done associate that beer or that hop with petrol. :huh:



Have to agree, how on earth do you get petrol/kerosene out of NS scotty?? :unsure: 
D saaz on the other hand has quite a kero aroma to it, like a Reisling...

Cheers Ross


----------



## warra48 (22/11/07)

Ross said:


> Have to agree, how on earth do you get petrol/kerosene out of NS scotty?? :unsure:
> D saaz on the other hand has quite a kero aroma to it, like a Reisling...
> 
> Cheers Ross



Besides beer, I really do love aged Rieslings. Had a gorgeous 12 year old one recently, almost like liquid honey in flavour, but still dry.
Anyway, back to drinking my SNPA clone, beautiful.


----------



## /// (22/11/07)

My Bad on the Hop conflict, but on both the varieties I get the same profile.

Unless it is JS Golden Ale, I find alot of the newer high alpha/aroma triploid base (not all are triploid) hops when used in larger amounts have the kero/petrol profile or are quite cat-p*ssie.

Anyway, each to thier own...

Scotty


----------



## MVZOOM (22/11/07)

I brewed an APA yesterday with PoR as a bittering addition at 60mins, and 50g of Amarillo through the last 30mins. Will let you know how it turned out!

Cheers - Mike


----------



## june (25/11/07)

Can't vouch for Amarillo hops ?I think you can do it!


----------



## rough60 (27/11/07)

My current favourite blend is 40% Amarillo, 60% B Saaz. In just about any grain bill !!!


----------

