# Tooheys Old Dark Ale



## jc64

I'm going to say it. I like this beer.

I recently went on a roadtrip to Cairns and back from Ocean Grove and this was a beer that I could find in most places so it became a staple for my caravan fridge when I couldn't grab a local APA style. I'm back at home now but I just did it, I bought a slab of Tooheys Old! Have I failed as a craft beer drinker? h34r: I do have a APA hopped with Citra and Galaxy fermenting at the moment though


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## GalBrew

Don't fret. I love the stuff too. Guilty pleasure.


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## Ducatiboy stu

Its my goto beer on tap when ccopers isnt on ta[

It is actually a pretty ggod beer


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## Reedy

My first foray into dark beers many years ago, and still enjoy it on tap when I can find it


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## Rocker1986

Yeah I don't mind it either, it's a bit of a go-to beer when I can't find anything else I would enjoy at a pub or whatever. If they only have it in bottles then I ask for a glass though...


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## Ducatiboy stu

there are not many pubs that I have been to that dont have it on tap

Its surprising how popular it is....

Yet so many people ask " How can you drink black beer ".......


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## Brewman_

Yeah, I like it too. It's my local pub beer. And it is nearly everywhere.


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## Bribie G

As I posted in another thread I first came across T.O. in the late 1970s when I was still a socks and sandals pom migrant. That was in the days of two beers only, red pubs serving XXXX and blue pubs serving Carlton.
Then came the Queensland beer strike and the only beer available was from interstate, and I fell in love with T.O. After the strike ended, although it disappeared on tap it was still available in cans and bottles. Eventually Tooheys and XXXX were merged with Swan thanks to Alan Bond and it became a regular in most bars on the East Coast north of Wodonga.

I can still remember the flavour and it hasn't changed much in the intervening decades.


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## hazoluke

Pretty sure my old man bathed me in it when i was a kid. That explains my attraction to it. 



It's definatly a good drop


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## jc64

Ducatiboy stu said:


> there are not many pubs that I have been to that dont have it on tap
> 
> Its surprising how popular it is....
> 
> Yet so many people ask " How can you drink black beer ".......


That's exactly what I found. I went to the bowling club in Lightning Ridge NSW during my trip and there it was, on tap, and in a schooner for me quick smart. A quick scan around the room showed a few others drinking it as well. Took me by surprise really.

I had a few stubbies of it at Palm Cove and the guy behind the bar said he was surprised at the amount of people who look at all the bottled beer behind the bar and eventually choose it. Anyway I'm glad it's not just me!


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## Grott

Agree, top drop. When travelling in NSW, all I'd drink. Was on tap at local a few years back but sadly tasted off due to slow take up and you'd get what had been sitting in the beer line for sometime. Still purchase at bottle shop once in a while.
Cheers


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## Bribie G

In Northern NSW a lot of older guys at the pub or club drink a "Murray Grey" which is a half and half light beer (Hahn or Cascade) topped up with T.O. from the tap. Couple of guys in Kyogle were drinking them this afternoon.


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## Ducatiboy stu

Old is like any Coopers beers in that the beer lines need to be cleaned well, often and properly

You can tell a pub by the taste of Old on tap I they dont look after their lines

There are only 2-3 pubs in town here where Old is any good...and they are the ones who are fastidious about how they do the lines 





And to think Old is a Mega Swill beer.....


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## Brewman_

OK, I am going to admit it, flame suit is ready...

One Brewday while knocking out some big IPA and US Brown Ales (Both 8% plus), we got to talking about making something more approachable..

Someone said let's make a Toohey's Old. So we did. And we all loved it. I think it may get called up again in the future it was that popular.

OK I admitted it.


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## TimT

Had my first TO last night for ages, it tasted a bit lighter and thinner than I remembered it. Still a good choice, especially in the Carlton only pubs.


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## Ducatiboy stu

Old is not hard to make

You cant get the choc malt they use....although Tony managed to get some and made a dead ringer for it

There is a recipe on here if you spend time to do a search...trust me 

The recipe is rather simple


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## TimT

Thought the taste and texture might have had something to do with the pub looking after their lines, as Stu suggests.


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## Brewman_

Yep really simple recipe, It is a very simple beer.



Ducatiboy stu said:


> You cant get the choc malt they use....although Tony managed to get some and made a dead ringer for it


Not sure what Tony got hold of, but I used Thomas Fawcett's Chocolate at 4%, BB Pale, 64% about 32% Sugar. And I think it was spot on.


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## TheWiggman

Bugger me, a mega swill thread and not a single horse piss reference in 17 posts? Overall positive reviews? You've changed AHB. 
I'll seldom not have a glass at a pub/club but agree about it seeming thin sometimes. Between clubs it can taste different. I recall doing a round of 9 at Duntry Leagues in Orange, sitting down after 2 hours walking in the sun and it was one of the best drops if ever had. Magic. A few months later though in another pub it seemed completely different. In any case a far better product than New and glad it's on tap where New isn't.


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## Ducatiboy stu

Brewman_ said:


> Yep really simple recipe, It is a very simple beer.
> 
> 
> Not sure what Tony got hold of, but I used Thomas Fawcett's Chocolate at 4%, BB Pale, 64% about 32% Sugar. And I think it was spot on.


Was the actual choc malt from Joe White in Tamworth. JW make it specifically for Old so you cant get it anywhere

I even got a kg or so of it 

Was many years ago


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## jc64

I was waiting for a lot of flak straight off the bat with this thread, relieved, and surprised.



TheWiggman said:


> Bugger me, a mega swill thread and not a single horse piss reference in 17 posts? Overall positive reviews? You've changed AHB.
> I'll seldom not have a glass at a pub/club but agree about it seeming thin sometimes. Between clubs it can taste different. I recall doing a round of 9 at Duntry Leagues in Orange, sitting down after 2 hours walking in the sun and it was one of the best drops if ever had. Magic. A few months later though in another pub it seemed completely different. In any case a far better product than New and glad it's on tap where New isn't.


I would have argued that it's a good option for a beer when you are out and about regardless.


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## Blind Dog

Will admit to a liking for a Tooheys Old if I'm out and about. Would put it before a fair number of craft beers I've had in the recent past as well.


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## Ducatiboy stu

Blind Dog said:


> Will admit to a liking for a Tooheys Old if I'm out and about. Would put it before a fair number of so called craft beers I've had in the recent past as well.


FTFY


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## Brewman_

Was out and about on the weekend at a couple of Craft Breweries. Great day I have to say, and did enjoy most of the beers. But I discovered one Craft brewery doesn't like feedback at all even after they asked me for it.
And there was no Old Tap. So.. off I went to the next.

OT, sorry


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## TheWiggman

How does it taste in bottles compared to a good example on tap? Must admit I don't think I've ever had it in the stubby.


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## GalBrew

TheWiggman said:


> How does it taste in bottles compared to a good example on tap? Must admit I don't think I've ever had it in the stubby.


Not too bad actually, Just make sure it's fresh. An old bottle can taste a bit like nothing.


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## Bribie G

Brewman_ said:


> Yep really simple recipe, It is a very simple beer.
> 
> 
> Not sure what Tony got hold of, but I used Thomas Fawcett's Chocolate at 4%, BB Pale, 64% about 32% Sugar. And I think it was spot on.


What hops and yeast?
I'm doing my inaugural Kyogle brew on Sunday and will have a crack at it, haven't done a dark ale for yonks.


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## Ducatiboy stu

POR....cant remeber the yeast...I know it wasnt a fancy one as they where not really available back then


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## Bribie G

I've got Notto, or could reculture some Coopers.


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## Lecterfan

I brought up, or at least contributed to a TO thread many years ago. Depending on the qualities that you like from it, the best advice I got back then, and I stand by it today, is to brew a schwarzbier. TO, especially cold, carries very few characteristics that I get from (and desire from) brown ales or dark ales etc... and the best versions I've brewed of it (best as in most pleasing to my palate for what I want from it) have generally been lagers, with the odd cool-fermented us05. I've only just come back to brewing lagers now after a few years and my first few are all schwarz.

Of course, if you like it to warm a little to promote its various characteristics then a dark ale is a great way to go. If you like to guzzle 17 of them cold, then I find treating it like a schwarz is very rewarding. 

Just another perspective, no right or wrong of course.


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## Bribie G

Good idea, I might mash fairly low then run the fermentation through with Notto at say 15 degrees to get the dry and crisp characteristics. I seem to remember about six years ago I did a version for a comp, and used Notto cold as suggested by Ross at the time.


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## fraser_john

jc64 said:


> I'm going to say it. I like this beer.


LOL - Unfriended.

I'll make sure that we have it for you at Beer Camp.


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## Mikeyr

Great everyday tap beer. Agree with the crowd on freshness! It's bloody brilliant straight off the line I can tell you!


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## jc64

Some good discussion in this thread, both about the beer, and how best to brew an example. Good stuff.



fraser_john said:


> LOL - Unfriended.
> 
> I'll make sure that we have it for you at Beer Camp.


and John that would be great


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## Brewman_

Bribie G said:


> What hops and yeast?
> I'm doing my inaugural Kyogle brew on Sunday and will have a crack at it, haven't done a dark ale for yonks.


Hops POR.

Yeast is SO4.

I can post the full recipe if you like?


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## hooper80

Brewman_ said:


> Hops POR.
> 
> Yeast is SO4.
> 
> I can post the full recipe if you like?


Yeah do that please mate!!!


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## warra48

TO is my go to beer when all the other taps are the usual mega brewers everyday products (notice how carefully I avoided the term megaswill?).

At my previous golf club they had a JS tap, and this usually served JS brews in rotation. But if I was the designated driver, I'd drink a bruiser (50/50 TO & Hahn Light) or a charlie ( mostly Hahn Light with a good dash of TO and I'll leave you to figure why it was named in honour of Charlie Perkins).

My current golf club burned down a few weeks ago, so we only have bottled beer from the Phoenix bar (in a converted shipping container) and TO is my regular order.

It's a good beer, not complicated, not a challenge to drink, but passes muster every time.


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## Brewman_

Here's the recipe off BrewBuilder Brewman.


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## Weizguy

Hmm, good price for 23 litres of beer, and includes the yeast. Thinking of hitting the Buy it Now button...


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## Brewman_

Just one comment I have on the recipe and the side by side taste off I did with a stubby of old.
The real Old, has a very slight sulphur on the nose, something I associate with a lager yeast characteristic. With the SO4, you don't get that. Otherwise it was a very good clone. The alternate yeast Saf 34/70 I think would give that same character, but I have not done that version yet.


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## Weizguy

Would you like to split a double batch with me, Brewman?


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## Brewman_

Your on Les! You place or mine?


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## Ducatiboy stu

Brewman_ said:


> Just one comment I have on the recipe and the side by side taste off I did with a stubby of old.
> The real Old, has a very slight sulphur on the nose, something I associate with a lager yeast characteristic. With the SO4, you don't get that. Otherwise it was a very good clone. The alternate yeast Saf 34/70 I think would give that same character, but I have not done that version yet.


Old is actually brewed with a proper Ale yeast


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## Brewman_

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Old is actually brewed with a proper Ale yeast


I guess the aroma is grain driven.

Not saying it's better or worse, just a noticeable difference.


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## luggy

When I did the xxxx brewery tour earlier in the year the tour guide confirmed that it is an ale yeast, wasnt a pimply faced teenager either he'd been working at the brewery for forty years


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## seamad

ale yeasts ( like 1007 german ale ) produce sulfur


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## Weizguy

Brewman_ said:


> Your on Les! You place or mine?


Best be yours this time, and I'm thinking of a clean yeast for my half - say American wheat.
You ready for the HUB/Murrays brew day this weekend?

We can report results back here for our brews.


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## Ducatiboy stu

Les the Weizguy said:


> We can report results back here for our brews.


mmm.. dunno...you might be better off on a beer forum


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## Brewman_

Les the Weizguy said:


> Best be yours this time, and I'm thinking of a clean yeast for my half - say American wheat.
> You ready for the HUB/Murrays brew day this weekend?
> 
> We can report results back here for our brews.


I like the sound of the yeast.

At this stage I am out for Murray's unfortunately... Very disappointed about that. But I am definitely in for Bitter and Twisted.

Chat offline about the split brew...


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## Dan Dan

I love me an old! I'm gonna give that recipe a crack. Need to change anything for biab?


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## jc64

I think I'll give Brewman's recipe a try with that wyeast 1007 German ale. Stupid question but when do you add the sugar Brewman? I also see you have 68c as your sac rest temp, fairly high, adding a bit of body?


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## Bribie G

I always add da sugaz to the FV rather than wasting any by chucking out sweet trub rather than plain trub.
In UK breweries that use sugar it's usually invert sugar that adds colour and flavour so it's added to the kettle but I don't do it with plain old sugaz in an Ozzie.


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## Coalminer

Les the Weizguy said:


> Hmm, good price for 23 litres of beer, and includes the yeast. Thinking of hitting the Buy it Now button...


Hey Les
All of Brewmans recipes are good value :super:


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## Brewman_

I personally add the sugar to the boil.


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## warra48

jc64 said:


> I think I'll give Brewman's recipe a try with that wyeast 1007 German ale. Stupid question but when do you add the sugar Brewman? I also see you have 68c as your sac rest temp, fairly high, adding a bit of body?


If adding sugar like in the recipe, you would need to mash higher to maintain some body in the beer, or it would thin out too much.


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## Blind Dog

The main mash is at 68 for 60, which should be high enough? Not sure I could ever be persuaded that 30+% sugar in a recipe is a good thing though.


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## TimL

I love tooheys old,best value for money mainstream beer in Australia at $46 a slab,just a shame it's never on tap anywhere in victoria,only time I've ever seen it was at the arcadia(cnr punt rd/toorak rd)on tap over 20 yrs ago.I don't enter that many comps but the best score I ever got was for my tooheys old clone,114.5/150 at vicbrew in '09.Aussie dark ale is a bloody good style,fairly easy to make,pilsener as the base to keep it fairly light with a touch of black 2-3% and a touch of chocolate malt 1%,little bit of wheat if that tickles you fancy,POR to 25 ibu's bittering addition only,yeast-saf 05or saf 04 or recultured coopers or German alt.Coopers dark ale is bloody nice on tap too,had it at the coopers ale house last year after seeing the tiges beat the crows on a boys weekend over there.But once again you pretty much have to be in Adelaide to get it.Even Carlton black was half decent but that's gone by the wayside I think.Ah well,time to brew an Aussie dark.


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## Weizguy

Coalminer said:


> Hey Les
> All of Brewmans recipes are good value :super:


OK, you got me there. Just didn't need to go off and make this all about the Brewman.

Can't recall when I have bought recipes/grain elsewhere.

Steve, is the T.O. recipe in your Brewman recipe list? Do we need to test drive a few yeasts before you add it?


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## Brewman_

Les the Weizguy said:


> Steve, is the T.O. recipe in your Brewman recipe list? Do we need to test drive a few yeasts before you add it?


Hey Les,
Yes the recipe is there already. Note that there are two.
Tooheys Old. The estimated ABV on this one is around 5.4% (A little high for the TO, but some may like it)
Tooheys Old_BMan. This basically a revised version of the one above but I pulled back the ABV to 4.4%

Quite often the recipes will have some yeast alternatives, so if come up with something we can add that yeast to the recipe.

Cheers Steve


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## Bribie G

Blind Dog said:


> The main mash is at 68 for 60, which should be high enough? Not sure I could ever be persuaded that 30+% sugar in a recipe is a good thing though.


It should be 30% of gravity, not by weight.
Because it's a clone of commercial beer then .. When in Rome, do as the Romans.

Australia is the only country in the world that uses large amounts of cane sugar in its mainstream beers, not sure about NZ.
A compelling theory is that this arose in the early 20th Century when early closing and the six o'clock swill came in.

With only an hour to get pissed, workers would flood into pubs and gulp down as many schooners as possible, often standing with legs apart and up to ten glasses on the floor between them.
So a very light bodied but strong beer was required with little "chewiness" or hop character. Just cold and quick.

Thus sugar.
One of the major obstacles to craft beers becoming more popular is the fact that they have flavour and body and thus don't taste like what beer is supposed to taste like.


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## Blind Dog

Although the 'its cheaper' argument is perhaps more likely to be the reason, particularly as I've read that it was common place to use large proportions of sugar from the very start of brewing in Australia.


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## Dave70

Belgian ales pile the sugaz in big time. Nobodys calling them megaswill. 
Imaging rolling with 8% + ales in the six o' clock swill. We could have had our very own 'Gin craze'.


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## TimT

There's a lot of old recipes that include some sugar, or are all sugar. I presume it was considered the cheap, easy alternative to doing a mash at home. 

American beers (like everything else in their country) often are thinned with the use of sugars or corn syrup. UK beer recipes from the 19th century also seem to have sugar added fairly frequently - I presume it's from the UK tradition that we inherited our own sugar-adding ways.


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## boingk

Count me among the Old-drinking masses, too.

Even the Tooheys Dark Ale 1.7kg kits do a reasonable job at replicating it. Not 100% but pretty darn good considering you can throw it into the fermenter with a pack of Coopers BE2 and have something approaching an Old. The included yeast (Maui 514?) even gives a comparable nose to it.

- boingk


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## pist

Yep old goes alright, my fall back when there's no decent beer, not even coopers green on tap


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## huez

Bribie G said:


> In Northern NSW a lot of older guys at the pub or club drink a "Murray Grey" which is a half and half light beer (Hahn or Cascade) topped up with T.O. from the tap. Couple of guys in Kyogle were drinking them this afternoon.


worked in pubs for 10years, never heard it called a murray grey. i love it though!


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## stm

warra48 said:


> charlie ( mostly Hahn Light with a good dash of TO and I'll leave you to figure why it was named in honour of Charlie Perkins).


Always wondered why it was called a charlie. Not that any current bar staff know what this is until I explain it.


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## Lincoln2

Bloody tourists come to Kyogle and steal our beer names. 

Bribie, we'll have to organise afew schooners of Old at the golf club. Great venue for a few schooners of old.

Another one here is the Bruiser, named because it's black and blue. Half old and half new.


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## Bribie G

Haven't been to the Golf Club yet, the bowlo is pretty spartan...
I'm just about unpacked and set up and meeting neighbours, all of whom have retro names like Doug, Fred, Nev etc. We will definitely quaff of the Old fairly soon.


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## kalbarluke

Bribie G said:


> In Northern NSW a lot of older guys at the pub or club drink a "Murray Grey" which is a half and half light beer (Hahn or Cascade) topped up with T.O. from the tap. Couple of guys in Kyogle were drinking them this afternoon.


I've heard of Tooheys Now - half Old and half New. Tried it once. Not awful.


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## Mikedub

agree with the love being thrown at this beer, its as complete a beer as it need to be.


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## leigh712

boingk said:


> Count me among the Old-drinking masses, too.
> 
> Even the Tooheys Dark Ale 1.7kg kits do a reasonable job at replicating it. Not 100% but pretty darn good considering you can throw it into the fermenter with a pack of Coopers BE2 and have something approaching an Old. The included yeast (Maui 514?) even gives a comparable nose to it.
> 
> - boingk


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## leigh712

This is my first thread ;I recently bought 2 cans of tooheys dark ale , was gonna do a toucan with em but reading this thread might do one with a BE 2 . Has anyone else noticed the kit yeast smells like stale peanuts? should I use it or can anyone recommend which coopers yeast to use I have a few on hand , the standard , ipa select & an international ? Also what final volume would get to me about 5.5% . Any advise would be appreciated . Cheers


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## TheWiggman

To back up the clone recipes above here are the ingredients courtesy of 'the beautiful truth' -





Ale yeast, super pride and surprisingly some hop extract from USA and/or UK. And of course cane sugar. Next cab off the home brew ranks will be Brewman's recipe I think, still tossing up the yeast.


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## Bribie G

A good yeast to use would be Nottingham. If you use the can, a pack of BE2 and half a kilo of raw sugar it should get you pretty close.

WRT Brewman's AG recipe, it turned out really good.


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## Funk then Funk1

TheWiggman said:


> To back up the clone recipes above here are the ingredients courtesy of 'the beautiful truth' -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tooheys Old.jpg
> 
> Ale yeast, super pride and surprisingly some hop extract from USA and/or UK. And of course cane sugar. Next cab off the home brew ranks will be Brewman's recipe I think, still tossing up the yeast.


"Unique Australian ale yeast"...is this linking back to the "White labs yeast vault" and the "Bronzed brews" Melbourne yeast?


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## TheWiggman

Going to brew this Brewman's recipe on page 2 tomorrow. Holy smokes though, >800g of sugaz in a 23l recipe? Hard to believe. In any case, diving ahead. I picked up 1469 West Yorkshire Ale yeast for this one, hopefully will be on-point.


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## kunfaced

could re cultured coopers yeast be a good choice?


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## Bribie G

I always go Nottingham for Tooheys Old attempts.
1469 will give a very nice ale, but a couple of points:

It does best with Yorkshire "style" water reasonably hard off limestone - I usually chuck in a bit of Calcium Chloride.
Aussie ales tend to be made on softer water with some sulphates.


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## TheWiggman

I'm using RO water and went for the 'balanced dark' profile on Bru'n water. 3.5g of Epsom and Gypsum, 1.8g calcium chloride. So sulphate around 90ppm and chloride low at 30ppm.


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## Bribie G

Should turn out smooth and lethal.

On the sugar issue, there's a big section in the book "Bronzed Brews" that gives a fascinating insight.

Several issues seem to have been going on simultaneously. For starters the malts available tended to produce hazes etc if not "diluted" with sugars. The locals preferred the so called "malt/sugar" beers as they found European style all-malt lagers to be too dry and hard to drink (my six o'clock swill comment I made earlier) and ... a bit of an eye opener that I should have realised a long time ago .. with industrial and commercial equipment being far more expensive in the Colonies as opposed to the UK where most manufacturing still took place, the use of sugar enabled bigger brew lengths to be produced by smaller plant.

So there was a bit of everything going on, and I guess Australians have just got used to malt/sugar beer megaswill as being the way beer should taste.


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## Ducatiboy stu

Although Coopers where the opposite


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## Bribie G

I can't find the reference but I believe Sparkling Ale had 10% sugar until recent times, and according to an old brewer at the Kensington brewery they used wheat flour as well. All malt nowadays of course.


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## TheWiggman

There's an e-mail from a Coopers rep in one of the recipe databases stating they still use up to 5% sugar in Sparkling depending on the malt qualities but it's otherwise an AG bill and nothing like the 30%+ in the mainstream beers. 
Incidentally I was talking to my grandfather a few moths ago of 78 years, who emigrated from England at age 24. He has a pretty solid interest in my home brew and beer in general, and remarked how it would have been magic if he could have made decent beer in those days because bottle shops and the like didn't exist. He was a linesman in Sydney. Beers came in 3 varieties - New, Carlton and Tooths. Pubs would typically serve one variety. Takeaway beers only ever came in longnecks and were rarely actually available, and they could only be bought at a pub. If you got word there was takeaway beer at your local then you'd gather your shillings, catch a taxi on the spot and rush down before they sold out. They'd limit 2 per customer. Pretty fascinating contrast to today's ever-shrinking bottles and growing availability. 
On topic, brew went well hitting 1.043 and looks lighter than I would expect. Will be interesting to see in the glass.


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## TheWiggman

Nearing what I thought was the end of fermentation with 1469 and it's still letting out the odd bubble at 1.007 so drier and boozier than expected even with a 68°C mash. Fermented at 17°C to try to keep the esters down but there's still some evident to taste. I bumped it up to 19°C after it got to 1.012 and the yeast went bezerk filling the whole headspace. Thick layer of cream on top, not what I'm used to but I was warned.
That choc malt is really coming through, and I can see how you really need the proprietary malt to clone this beer properly.


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## TheWiggman

No pics but I had my first sample of this out of the bottle over the weekend.
Stellar.
Genuinely, honestly tastes like Old. Without a shadow of a doubt the closest clone recipe I've made and I'm still struggling to understand how it can taste like that with so much sugar in the recipe. I'm thinking I might even up the sugar for my next Aussie lager. Came in at 4.7% instead of the traditional 4.4% but is still a fine drop. I'll post a pic next to a glass of the real thing and see how it compares. For now, it'll happily tide me over on my very own tap.

Many thanks to Steve Brewman_ for the recipe.


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## Bribie G

Tidal Pete, RdeVjun and I did a XXX Tooheys historical old yesterday from Bronzed Brews.
Includes 1.32 kg of mixed raw and white sugaz.
1048 OG

FRIGHTENING


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## Bridges

Bribie G said:


> Tidal Pete, RdeVjun and I did a XXX Tooheys historical old yesterday from Bronzed Brews.
> Includes 1.32 kg of mixed raw and white sugaz.
> 1048 OG
> 
> FRIGHTENING


Cool, what yeast are you going to throw at it. (Still waiting on Melbourne 1, fingers crossed) Looking forward to hearing what it tastes like.


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## Bribie G

In the absence of Melbourne 1, probably MJ Burton Union, started in one fermenter then after about 36 hours, dropped into my SS Brewbucket with a blow off tube.


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