# Pseudo Bulk Priming - Using A Syringe



## rendo (29/4/10)

Hi All,

I have tried out Goatherder's Pseudo Bulk Priming method earlier this week. I have to say I think it is a good balance between SOME of the advantages bulk priming and just simply dry priming. Really it is dry priming but with a wet solution.. 

Regardless, I am a fan. I have tried bulk priming many times and I am just not convinced it is faster and worth the effort of washing, sterilising, potential oxidation, etc etc.

I do like bulk priming, but I do like dry priming, I know dry priming its quicker (at least for me). Yet this pseudo bulk priming I think is going to be my thing....

http://sites.google.com/site/goatherder/bulkpriming

rendo


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## Siborg (29/4/10)

hey rendo. Sounds interesting. Why not use a measuring scoop and use dry sugar?

I've racked and bulk primed for my last few brews and the only thing I can say is that they end up a little under carbed.


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## rendo (29/4/10)

Hey Siborg,

I'll let you know how it turns out mate. 

I find using dry sugar is fine if you are using table sugar, but using dextrose dry is a PITA (can get clumpy etc).....well i think so anyway  

I like the fact that with this way (as per bulk priming) you can easily control the total volume of sugar/dex/etc that you put into the brew. You simply make the solution to a predefined volume so you can dispense the required amount into the bottle (as per the link in the OP).

Regarding your brews being undercarbed, the solution is easy (pardon the pun), add more sugar/dex next time. How many grams of sugar or dex did you use? Obviously we both know there are several factors at hand. My first bulk prime was a little under carbed, but my subsequent ones were not  Run it thru the priming calcs, then I usually add about 10-20% more, just for good measure.....and I dont mind a well carbed beer anyway. 

rendo




Siborg said:


> hey rendo. Sounds interesting. Why not use a measuring scoop and use dry sugar?
> 
> I've racked and bulk primed for my last few brews and the only thing I can say is that they end up a little under carbed.


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## MHB (29/4/10)

I've always thought a drenching gun or repeating syringe would be great. Both are designed to give the same controlled dose over and over again.
View attachment 37670
View attachment 37671

MHB


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## Siborg (29/4/10)

rendo said:


> Hey Siborg,
> 
> I'll let you know how it turns out mate.
> 
> ...


Ah, true that. I actually thought about it after I posted. Control. It is good to be able to have a carbed brew within the style guidelines. Obviously, a standard scoop of priming sugar would be too much for stouts, which are generally lower carbed.

My last brew was something like 150-160 grams, aiming for 2.7-2.8 volumes. I asked someone at the club the other night what they thought the volumes of CO2 were and they said something like 2.1-2.4 volumes. I don't mind the level of carbonation for this beer... nice soft bubbles. The last one I did, the recipe reckoned 3.5 volumes, so beersmith worked it out to be about 250g! I've bottled em in plastic as per justin's case. (coopers... mmmmmm :chug: )


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## rendo (29/4/10)

Hmmmm.....I like it!!!



MHB said:


> I've always thought a drenching gun or repeating syringe would be great. Both are designed to give the same controlled dose over and over again.
> View attachment 37670
> View attachment 37671
> 
> MHB


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## TasChris (30/4/10)

I always saw the major advantage of bulk priming besides getting a more even distirbution of the priming agent ( sugar, dex honey etc) was that you didn't need to any additional calaculations for differing sized bottles. Grolsh bottles, long necks of differing vols ( I got a whole stack of 800ml ones) or stubbies can all be filled without any worries. Using a syringe, drench gun etc would still need to take into account the volume of the bottle that is being filled.
Bottling was the job that I hated most ( after washing bottles) so anything that made the exercise quicker and easier was a step forward.

Cheers
Chris


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## QldKev (30/4/10)

Here's my bulk prime solution.






Sorry there's always got to be one.

QldKev


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## Nick JD (30/4/10)

I just use a teaspoon and a funnel. 

It's such a simple task, I always wonder why people complicate it. 

Put sugar in bottles ... fill up with beer.


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## AndrewQLD (30/4/10)

Nick JD said:


> I just use a teaspoon and a funnel.
> 
> It's such a simple task, I always wonder why people complicate it.
> 
> Put sugar in bottles ... fill up with beer.



It's not really to complicate things Nick, just to make it more accurate, priming as you do will give you a different carbonation level if you bottle a lager fermented at 10c than it would an Ale fermented at 18c.
The bulk prime or syringe prime allows you to accurately take into account the Co2 absorbed by the beer at varying temps.

Andrew


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## rendo (30/4/10)

NickJD......no matter how many priming methods I try, each with their own +ve/-ves, i keep coming back to exactly what you just said. I think its hard to go past sugar, funnel, beer....its quick, easy, done

Although the syringe method is a close second and i think may over take the sugar/funnel as i have more control over sugar concentration and it really is piss easy...almost as easy as the sugar, MAYBE easier once you get the hang of it. The proof will be in the pudding, so will let you all know in a few weeks.

Not rubbishing bulk priming...hell I even like carb drops. I think they are inarguably the EASIEST...not the cheapest, but deadset its hard to fcuk up with them and its super quick (aslong as u have 375/750ml)

ALso, with the syringe method it is deadset easy to adjust for different bottle sizes. I make the solution so that 5ml is the right dose for a 375ml bottle. So this means 10ml is right for a 750ml bottle. If you have other sized bottles it is REALLY easy to draw up a table in excel that tells u what the right dose is for each size....eg "5/375 = dose per ml of beer" then times this figure by the amount of mls in the bottle and whammo. Suck it up princess and spit it out!

Rendo



Nick JD said:


> I just use a teaspoon and a funnel.
> 
> It's such a simple task, I always wonder why people complicate it.
> 
> Put sugar in bottles ... fill up with beer.






AndrewQLD said:


> It's not really to complicate things Nick, just to make it more accurate, priming as you do will give you a different carbonation level if you bottle a lager fermented at 10c than it would an Ale fermented at 18c.
> The bulk prime or syringe prime allows you to accurately take into account the Co2 absorbed by the beer at varying temps.
> 
> Andrew


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## Nick JD (30/4/10)

AndrewQLD said:


> It's not really to complicate things Nick, just to make it more accurate, priming as you do will give you a different carbonation level if you bottle a lager fermented at 10c than it would an Ale fermented at 18c.
> The bulk prime or syringe prime allows you to accurately take into account the Co2 absorbed by the beer at varying temps.
> 
> Andrew



Instead of having to calculate temperature conversions for dissolved CO2, I just let my fermenter warm up before bottling. The yeast have to warm up sooner or later to get busy makin' fizz, might as well be on the concrete floor of the garage instead of puddling pools of condensation in my cupboard and complicating what is essentially a very simple process. YMMV.


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## manticle (30/4/10)

rendo said:


> NickJD......no matter how many priming methods I try, each with their own +ve/-ves, i keep coming back to exactly what you just said. I think its hard to go past sugar, funnel, beer....its quick, easy, done
> 
> Although the syringe method is a close second and i think may over take the sugar/funnel as i have more control over sugar concentration and it really is piss easy...almost as easy as the sugar, MAYBE easier once you get the hang of it. The proof will be in the pudding, so will let you all know in a few weeks.
> 
> ...



I've been bulk priming for a while. I don't usually rack to do it - just do it in primary, stir with a sanitised spoon then leave it for 30 minutes. I find it far easier than either carb drops or sugar through a funnel (done both in earlier days). 


Many means to the same end I guess.


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## skippy (1/5/10)

MHB said:


> I've always thought a drenching gun or repeating syringe would be great. Both are designed to give the same controlled dose over and over again.
> View attachment 37670
> View attachment 37671
> 
> MHB




are you from New Zealand?

just wondering mate


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## rendo (1/5/10)

Hi Manticle,

You would have to be right (again!)  I have never tried this. I have come close a few times, but I just cant bring myself to prime the primary and give it a stir, especially worried about stirring up the yeast cake that my fridge has worked so hard and long (cold conditioning etc) to drop out of suspension.

Like you I prefer to get as much yeast as possible out of the beer cause I prefer to not have the taste in the bottle (am sure u have said this before) I will have to give this a go one day when I can muster up the balls. Do you find it stirs the yeast up a little at least or you'd say its negligible? I guess that is why you wait for 30mins for it to settle back down and for the solution to dissapate evenly thru the brew.

rendo
(maybe next brew.......this would be the ultimate)



manticle said:


> I've been bulk priming for a while. I don't usually rack to do it - just do it in primary, stir with a sanitised spoon then leave it for 30 minutes. I find it far easier than either carb drops or sugar through a funnel (done both in earlier days).
> 
> 
> Many means to the same end I guess.


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## MHB (1/5/10)

> *skippy*Posted Today, 01:24 AM
> are you from New Zealand?
> just wondering mate



Used on dam near every farm in the country (well ones that have livestock), available through any Ag supply store.

WTF is the connection to NZ you know it might be better not to post than to post totally irrelevant crap.

MHB


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## goatherder (1/5/10)

Cheers, glad you like the method. It works well for me.

I like it better than dry priming because I get more precise measurement of the sugar, allowing for different carb levels & varying bottle sizes.


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## Nick JD (1/5/10)

MHB said:


> WTF is the connection to NZ – you know it might be better not to post than to post totally irrelevant crap.



New Zealand is famous for sheep and being the butt of jokes pertaining to. It's sometimes difficult to differentiate between irrelevant crap and humour, but like homebrewing, you get better at it with practice.

The look on this ewe's face tells me it too is not good with subtle derogatory humour directed at our sheep-riddled brothers across the ditch.


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## manticle (1/5/10)

rendo said:


> Hi Manticle,
> 
> You would have to be right (again!)  I have never tried this. I have come close a few times, but I just cant bring myself to prime the primary and give it a stir, especially worried about stirring up the yeast cake that my fridge has worked so hard and long (cold conditioning etc) to drop out of suspension.
> 
> ...



I do rack to a secondary vessel earlier in fermentation which is why I don't see the need to do it again for priming. The beer is then fined and cold conditioned so there is very little sediment left in the fermenter by the time I am priming. Priming syrup is added in and just given a very gentle stir because diffusion is going to allow the syrup equilibrate (hence the 30 mins). Couple all that will decanting the bottle into a jug and you get clear, sediment free beer.


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## rendo (1/5/10)

Thanks Goatherder,

Its a pretty good method, well done.

I am a convert for now. Will try priming the primary one day.....



goatherder said:


> Cheers, glad you like the method. It works well for me.
> 
> I like it better than dry priming because I get more precise measurement of the sugar, allowing for different carb levels & varying bottle sizes.


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## rendo (1/5/10)

Thanks Manticle, that makes perfect sense. If you rack to a 2ndary, then yes I would certainly give priming the 2ndary a go, for sure. 

Since i rarely rack to a secondary I am still nervous about priming the primary.

So...maybe next brew i will rack to a secondary, doing another lager, want to have a long lagering, so i should really rack it to a 2ndary anyway.

Thanks Manticle, as always.

PS....did u see the banana bread recipe I posted for you....or is it not your type of thing?  maybe the missus bakes? give it a go if u like banana bread

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...st&p=626171

Rendo





manticle said:


> I do rack to a secondary vessel earlier in fermentation which is why I don't see the need to do it again for priming. The beer is then fined and cold conditioned so there is very little sediment left in the fermenter by the time I am priming. Priming syrup is added in and just given a very gentle stir because diffusion is going to allow the syrup equilibrate (hence the 30 mins). Couple all that will decanting the bottle into a jug and you get clear, sediment free beer.


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## manticle (1/5/10)

You should post pictures of your next one in the bread porn thead.

I'm not a big fan of banana bread or banana cake but it could be a good thing to bake for variety to take over to a friend's place or when having guests. Might give it a whirl.

I tend to do most of the cooking (which doesn't involve a lot of baking due to a shitty oven that doesn't close properly thanks to a tightarse landlord). Fortunately in exchange for doing most of the cooking and shopping (which I don't mind doing) the lady does most of the cleaning (which I hate) and puts up with brewing apparatus in almost every part of the house.


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## rendo (1/5/10)

sounds pretty similar to my household re: cooking, cleaning etc....except I have a kick arse oven (no landlord...or more so I am my own landlord and I pay "rent" to the banks for lending me their money...) ....its a beast....my previous place had an oven that sounds similar to yours...i still made some good stuff in it.

I still get excited just looking at this thing....how is this for oven/stove p0rn!!!





PS...Will post a photo in the bread p0rn thread, didnt realise there was one 

rendo



manticle said:


> You should post pictures of your next one in the bread porn thead.
> 
> I'm not a big fan of banana bread or banana cake but it could be a good thing to bake for variety to take over to a friend's place or when having guests. Might give it wa whirl.
> 
> I tend to do most of the cooking (which doesn't involve a lot of baking due to a shitty oven that doesn't close properly thanks to a tightarse landlord). Fortunately in exchange for doing most of the cooking and shopping (which I don't mind doing) the lady does most of the cleaning (which I hate) and puts up with brewing apparatus in almost every part of the house.


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## rendo (31/7/10)

Well, its been more than a few weeks, but this method works a treat. The bottles carbed up brilliantly. Better than ever, probably a bit too over carbed, implying I simply used too much dextrose (200g) for a 23L brew. :blink: 

Anyway, I have used it several times now, just bottled another brew today, Saaz Lager with a cascade twist, similar to LCBA, used this pseudo bulk priming method (180g dex) and it is EASY as. This is now my #1 method of priming, generally speaking. This works for me, so I'll stick with it. Thanks again Goatherder!!! GENIUS!!

Total control over carb levels, very easy to accomodate different sized bottles, easy to prepare and do, not much to wash up....I love it!

Rendo
(if I did rack to a secondary then CC etc etc, then I would prob just bulk prime in that, but i RARELY rack to a secondary, so the above method for me is EXCELLENT [for me])




rendo said:


> NickJD......no matter how many priming methods I try, each with their own +ve/-ves, i keep coming back to exactly what you just said. I think its hard to go past sugar, funnel, beer....its quick, easy, done
> 
> Although the syringe method is a close second and i think may over take the sugar/funnel as i have more control over sugar concentration and it really is piss easy...almost as easy as the sugar, MAYBE easier once you get the hang of it. The proof will be in the pudding, so will let you all know in a few weeks.
> 
> ...


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## Nodrog (3/8/10)

I've been using this method for a while - although I hadn't read about it.

Sugar+teaspoon+funnel was working ish, but was getting too much foam, and after a few bottles the inevitable dampness from the bottles was getting in the funnel and the sugar was clogging up. As above, a drenching gun has to be the way to go!


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## [email protected] (29/11/10)

hmmm i think i will try this method when i bottle tonight or tomorrow

I let my primary sit for 2 weeks , i have racked and bulk primed in past and i think i would rather this method as i only brew
very small batches.

So i do not mind bottling from primary fermenter, just that all my bottles are 330ml, have been stuffing around trying
to see if i can get a accurate / consistent measure of dry dex into a bottle, checking weight, but its nearly impossible to
get the same amount each time, this solution is so obvious now...cheers for the spreadsheet Goat


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## MarkBastard (29/11/10)

Could you make it so that for example 1ml of solution does 100ml of Beer?

That way if you had a 10ml syringe you could fill it up to 7.5ml for tallies, just under 4ml for stubbies etc and thus have the ability to easily fill any size bottle fairly accurately.

(the figures I used above are for illustrative purposes only)


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