# Are You A Homebrewer Or A Craftbrewer?



## chappo1970 (5/1/10)

> ....There is a big difference between Craftbrewers and Homebrewers.
> 
> Homebrewers - people who brew at home. Be it Kit and Kilo, in a bath tub, out in the open. They basically brew at home and dont care that much about the result.
> 
> Craftbrewers - people who treat the art of brewing as a craft. They take care in the production, the receipe, the equipment, the ingredients, the procedures.



The above quote comes from a forum member who I have decided to keep his/her or it's identity withdrawn from this thread. However I took offence to the above but then it got me thinking about this hobby, the history, the people I have met who homebrew and the associated label of being a "homebrewer". Labels are funny things much like being labelled a "Bogan" or a "Logan Bogan" where I live the label conjures up good and bad bias, in my case the negative. All the same I am a self confessed Bogan, I like Holden cars, meat pies, football and Torana's. I'm not fussed on fancy restaurants, flash suits and European motorcars. Althought my job requires me to dine in fancy restaurants regularly.

I class myself as a homebrewer first and foremost. I am proud to be homebrewer and when I meet people I tell them so. I would say 60% of the time I see their eye roll or that look of horror as I hand them a beer but thus far I would say i have about an 80% conversion rate to rethinking what homebrewing can produce. "Craftbrewer" just sounds like being a knob to me.

Anyway ignore the the above quoted description but rather tell me what you, yes you! prefer to be labelled?

Are you a Homebrewer?
or
Are you a Craftbrewer?

Cheers

Chappo


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## manticle (5/1/10)

And the above quote was so ridiculous I didn't even think it warranted a response.

I support X's* endeavours with his nameless* things and so on but that statement was kind of ludicrous and required head pulling from certain orifices (on his behalf).

I just think maybe he shoots his mouth (and keyboard fingers) off a little quickly at times and has a touch too much arrogance to realise what he said is absolute twaddle.

By the way I'm a home brewer, atheist and decent cook. I can also draw, put on a sun hat and dance like someone who's not very good at dancing and doesn't really enjoy it and I don't really like avocado.

Can I vote all three?

* In keeping with your identity secrecy of said poster


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## Snow (5/1/10)

As I said in the previous thread, IMO, people (ie amateur brewers) who find the need to call themselves "craftbrewers", are just homebrewers with an inferiority complex.

Cheers - Snow.


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## Frank (5/1/10)

Homebrewer.

I thought Craft Brewers made Vegemite?? Or did we sell that to the Americans? 
Craftbrewer sound like I need to cover my fermenter with a couple of doilies.


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## cdbrown (5/1/10)

Never really considered myself anything other than a homebrewer considering I brew at home.

Do not agree with the quote - scoffed quite looudly when I first saw it.


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## Fourstar (5/1/10)

:icon_offtopic: in before moderation! Hoorah!

on topic.

I consider myself a Homebrewer but i can see for some they might take offence to that and consider themseves craftsmen, artists, purists, brew hobbiest etc. I remember hearing on a Jamil show that the Yanks dont like being referred to as Amateur brewers where as we wouldn't take that title any different to being called a homebrewer which is infact what we are.


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## yardy (5/1/10)

craftbrewer because my old man always said i'm a crafty bastard..

Chappo, i love holdens, maggot bags with dead horse, footy and toranas also, thats makes us australian mate  

cheers

Dave

who's the mystery poster ? , i wont say nuffink...


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## cdbrown (5/1/10)

Fourstar said:


> I remember hearing on a Jamil show that the Yanks dont like being referred to as Amateur brewers where as we wouldn't take that title any different to being called a homebrewer which is infact what we are.



That's crazy - do they see Amateur as being derogatory or something?? Not too long ago amateurs were the only ones allowed in the Olympics before the professional (read paid) sports people jumped in.


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## Pollux (5/1/10)

I can recall listening to a BBR podcast where they were discussing the homebrewer vs craftbrewer tag and stigma attached.

It was pointed out that it is only in countries where the base level swill is relatively expensive that homebrewing has a bad tag as it tends to be a "hobby" performed by those who just want cheap booze to get loaded and are not concerned about taste, as apposed to the US where "homebrewers" are considered the artists that they are....


I found that quite interesting, but I still describe myself as a simply a "brewer", no stigma, no wankiness, I brew, therefore I am a brewer.


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## thanme (5/1/10)

What makes a beer a "craft" beer?

If people ask me what my hobbies are, I'd be more inclined to say "I make beer" for some reason.


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## Fourstar (5/1/10)

cdbrown said:


> That's crazy - do they see Amateur as being derogatory or something?? Not too long ago amateurs were the only ones allowed in the Olympics before the professional (read paid) sports people jumped in.



Linking to what pollux has stated i think they assume amateur = apprentice = unskilled or 'lower quality'.


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## Bribie G (5/1/10)

I think the 'cringe' tends to come from the semantic "loading" of the term "home brew"................ "Bilbo, have you been drinking the Gaffer's home brew again"..... (is that why you are currently sounding like a complete tool) "Well yes, Frodo, but...."

I usually announce myself as: "My big hobby is beer brewing"


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## Effect (5/1/10)

after hearing a craftbrewer talk on the internet radio...I don't know if I want to call myself one...

I brew my beer at home, but despite that, I am a craftbrewer...I think it is a bit shorter than saying to people 'I am a homebrewer - but my beer isn't made with the tins you get at the supermarket, I make it all fresh like at the major breweries - but my beer tastes better than the macrobreweries, more like a microbrewery - but I make it to my own recipes - you want some?'

Cheers
Phil


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## Online Brewing Supplies (5/1/10)

I like to drink beer so there fore I class my self as a Crafted Drinker that brews in the shed. So I am a crafty shed brewer (CSB).Cant get any more Aussie than a bloke a beer and a shed.  
GB


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## nathanR (5/1/10)

craftbrewer sounds like you should be wearing a home made sweater and have patch work quilt over your fementer


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## Back Yard Brewer (5/1/10)

OK so I'm a knob  , yep I like to call myself a craftbrewer h34r: I take raw ingredients and create something that is my own, and unique. Never really thought being a craftbrewer was being snobby or stuck up. My beer labels will most likely include the term "Hand Crafted" one day. "Hand Home" just doesn't sound right to me. 


BYB


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## chappo1970 (5/1/10)

Back Yard Brewer said:


> OK so I'm a knob  , yep I like to call myself a craftbrewer h34r: I take raw ingredients and create something that is my own, and unique. Never really thought being a craftbrewer was being snobby or stuck up. My beer labels will most likely include the term "Hand Crafted" one day. "Hand Home" just doesn't sound right to me.
> 
> 
> BYB



Good on you BYB. I'm glad to see some opposite opinions coming. I was hoping for some spirited debate.  

BTW what's wrong with "Hand Made Home Brewed Beer"? just a thought?

Chap Chap


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## Pete2501 (5/1/10)

Aren't they the same thing? 

I brew beer at home so I consider myself a brewhomer. 

Doesn't phase me either way unless it starts making googling harder.


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## white.grant (5/1/10)

Back Yard Brewer said:


> OK so I'm a knob  , yep I like to call myself a craftbrewer h34r: I take raw ingredients and create something that is my own, and unique. Never really thought being a craftbrewer was being snobby or stuck up. My beer labels will most likely include the term "Hand Crafted" one day. "Hand Home" just doesn't sound right to me.
> 
> 
> BYB



You and me both BYB. 

I like the idea of craft, brings to my mind the pursuits of the artisan. Working steadily with your hands, applying hard earned knowledge, exercising patience, using in many cases traditional, hand driven or at least non-commercial equipment and processes and enjoying the rewards of your efforts. Craft brewer works for me.

cheers

grant


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## Greg Lawrence (5/1/10)

You could go one step further and brew in the nude


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## Screwtop (5/1/10)

Better count me in the knob category. I make Craft Brewed Beer at Home. Why do I proclaim that? You all know why, you have all offered Homebrewed Beer to your friends, neighbours, family and seen the response. I don't mix stuff up and stick it in the shed or under the house for a couple a weeks. I craft my beers and care about what I offer people, I even measure the gravity with a thingy. 

Would any of you pay for a commercial beer from any small/micro/craft brewery located in someone's home that labelled it homebrew, I think not. My beers are as good as commercially Craftbrewed Beer and I will refer to them as such, therefore I am a Craft Brewer and a Knob. Maybe some home brewers have inferiority complex disorder.

Bound to stir some good debate with this gem Chap Chap :lol:

Screwy

PS: I CRAFFTED THESE WORDS AT HOME


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## Pete2501 (5/1/10)

Grantw said:


> <snip>
> I like the idea of craft, brings to my mind the pursuits of the artisan. Working steadily with your hands, applying hard earned knowledge, exercising patience, using in many cases traditional, hand driven or at least non-commercial equipment and processes and enjoying the rewards of your efforts. Craft brewer works for me.
> <snip>



Isn't that what brewing is though? It's like saying ATM machine. Brewing is all those things so saying you're a craft brewing is just the same as saying you're a home brewer but you're stating where you brew. 

Brewing is working with your hands to perfect a craft/hobby/interest and more. I fail to see the need for the word craft.

Edit: I can't spell


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## yardy (5/1/10)

Gregor said:


> You could go one step further and brew in the nude





i'm gunna have to get me one them big ol' hop socks...


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## bum (5/1/10)

NME said:


> If people ask me what my hobbies are, I'd be more inclined to say "I make beer" for some reason.



Same here. Leaving the word "home" off the front does tend stop a few people's eyes from rolling. But If i had to pick from the two it would definitely be "homebrewer".

For me, the most ridiculous thing about the post that inspired this thread was not that it was pointlessly divisive but that it was a response to someone who was essentially asking him if he was affiliated with a retailer with a specific name.


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## Adamt (5/1/10)

bum: You didn't expect a straight answer from Craftpolitician, did you? :lol:


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## bradsbrew (5/1/10)

I cant decide what agnostic means....What does agnostic mean???


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## mckenry (5/1/10)

I am a craftbrewer. Purely because homebrew conjours up images of the old bloke next door passing a schooner of frothing infected stinky beer over the fence saying "dont worry about the head - its just working too well"

Labelling myself as a craftbrewer is neither elitist, nor knobby. It gives the hobby a better image and makes joe average do a double take and rethink his preconceived ideas.

Invariably someone will ask what the difference is and thats my chance to educate and hopefully get them to sample some of my craft. They then spread the word that 'homebrew aint homebrew'.

mckenry


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## benny_bjc (5/1/10)

I wouldn't exactly call myself a craftbrewer but I certainly care about making something really good, and better then the last batch or anything you buy in the shop... by creativity and pushing limits etc etc. I spend a lot more on ingredients for beer making then I would if I buy the beer in shop.... but get much better product which I like more than anything in the shop!

There is a crafty, creative side to home brewing as well as a scientific side, and then there is the plain old way of wanting to make something thats 'value' for money and saves on the back pocket... and also there is everything in between!


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## Pete2501 (5/1/10)

mckenry said:


> Invariably someone will ask what the difference is and thats my chance to educate and hopefully get them to sample some of my craft. They then spread the word that 'homebrew aint homebrew'.



But it is. Home brew is all of these things and more. Homebrew is making beer and working towards making better beer. That's the most common goal I see on the forums.


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## Adamt (5/1/10)

If you're going to look at the different between "craft" and "home", we should probably think about "brewer" as well.

If you empty a tin into a plastic container, add water, sugar/extract, yeast, etc., you ain't a brewer.

My visualisation of "craftbrewing" is at a commercial scale... brewing companies that make beer that isn't just pale lager.

I would say all homebrewers (considering "actual" brewers) are craftbrewers, unless your home is a megabrewery pumping out lager for the masses.


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## Pete2501 (5/1/10)

I wouldn't consider some full blown operations craft brewers though. What they can do with the refined chemical components is far beyond what a brewer can do.


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## WarmBeer (5/1/10)

cdbrown said:


> That's crazy - do they see Amateur as being derogatory or something?? Not too long ago amateurs were the only ones allowed in the Olympics before the professional (read paid) sports people jumped in.



I like the word "Amateur"

Infact it's one of my most used terms in Google, and Redtube, searches


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## fraser_john (5/1/10)

Screwtop said:


> Better count me in the knob category. I make Craft Brewed Beer at Home. Why do I proclaim that? You all know why, you have all offered Homebrewed Beer to your friends, neighbours, family and seen the response. I don't mix stuff up and stick it in the shed or under the house for a couple a weeks. I craft my beers and care about what I offer people, I even measure the gravity with a thingy.
> 
> Would any of you pay for a commercial beer from any small/micro/craft brewery located in someone's home that labelled it homebrew, I think not. My beers are as good as commercially Craftbrewed Beer and I will refer to them as such, therefore I am a Craft Brewer and a Knob. Maybe some home brewers have inferiority complex disorder.



+1 its a good perspective Screwy, though I voted agnostic as I don't tell anyone either, I just brew my own beer.


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## DUANNE (5/1/10)

im happy to call myself a homebrewer. but i can also relate why others might prefer craft brewer. 9 out 10 of poeple who ask about homebrew relate it to being cheap cats piss alcahol that taste nothing like beer. if you say youre a craft brewer it may be more likely for someone to try your beer with a touch less prejudice.


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## mckenry (5/1/10)

Pete2501 said:


> But it is. Home brew is all of these things and more. Homebrew is making beer and working towards making better beer. That's the most common goal I see on the forums.



I know (as do most on here) that you're right. The poll is are you a homebrewer or craftbrewer. They probably are the same, but the connotation to joe average is not. Always, always, always, when I mention I brew beer, they say "is it rocket fuel?" then go on to tell me a story of the time their flatemate/brother/neighbour made some and how bad it was. I lived next door to the bloke in my above post. It happens all the time. Stories of terrible homebrew are everywhere. 
Thats why I say craftbrewer and try to shed a different light.
mckenry


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## MarkMc (5/1/10)

WarmBeer said:


> I like the word "Amateur"
> 
> Infact it's one of my most used terms in Google, and Redtube, searches



+1 :icon_offtopic:


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## saccarin63 (5/1/10)

we are all craftbrewers guys,we produce labour intensive hand crafted beers. be proud of the name and say goodbye to homebrewer and welcome our new name, we r fuckin craft brewers and be proud of it. from the allgrainer to the tin men and women stand up and shout it out loud WE ARE CRAFTBREWERS. wow iam freakin myself out.


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## bradsbrew (5/1/10)

I am a homebrewer that makes craft beer.


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## FANBOY (5/1/10)

Hey all,

Interesting topic. Always considered myself a homebrewer because thats where I did it 8).

What is a craftbrewer?.... beads on threads or sewing whilst waiting 8)

FB


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## mika (5/1/10)

WarmBeer said:


> I like the word "Amateur"
> 
> Infact it's one of my most used terms in Google, and Redtube, searches



+2.

Though if I want to sound 'just a little bit fancy' I do like the term artisan brewer.


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## Pollux (5/1/10)

WarmBeer said:


> I like the word "Amateur"
> 
> Infact it's one of my most used terms in Google, and Redtube, searches



Gold.....

I'd be lying if I denied the same...........


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## saccarin63 (5/1/10)

just trying to get some support for a name change, fannyboy. out with the old and in with the new.2010.


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## Zwickel (5/1/10)

Im a "Hobbybrauer", so Im excluded from AHB now? h34r:


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## Bribie G (5/1/10)

Pollux said:


> Gold.....
> 
> I'd be lying if I denied the same...........



I go more for "mature"


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## Jazman (5/1/10)

Ich bin Bier Brauer thats what i say


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## Jazman (5/1/10)

Zwickel said:


> Im a "Hobbybrauer", so Im excluded from AHB now? h34r:




good website too hobbybrauer except my German is not good and I am im learning some got a German mother in law


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## winkle (5/1/10)

Neither.
I'm an artisanal brewer, so there h34r:


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## Screwtop (5/1/10)

winkle said:


> Neither.
> I'm an artisanal brewer, so there h34r:




Being a Knob i'm not far off being an Artisanal Brewer Perry :lol:

Screwy


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## winkle (5/1/10)

Screwtop said:


> Being a Knob i'm not far off being an Artisanal Brewer Perry :lol:
> 
> Screwy



Damm, the butt of somebodys joke again. B)


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## daemon (5/1/10)

bradsbrew said:


> I am a homebrewer that makes craft beer.


That's pretty much how I view it, I brew at home and make my own "craft" beer. I usually use this to distinguish from the "homebrew" stigma, as it was also enough to put me off brewing for a while. Normally it's just "I make my own beer from scratch" and people ask for more info if they're interested. Now that I am a "homebrewer" I see it all in a different light to my original misconceptions, and no longer makes me think of poor quality beer. When people talk about adding 2kg's of sugar and keeping it warm so it's done in 3 days, that makes me think of inferior beer 

Either way, the original descriptions are just one person's opinion and it seems the majority disagree.


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## dug (5/1/10)

why do you think that "homebrew" is bad, I mean commercial food outlets say "home made food", as if putting the "home" in the front makes its better. does it make it sound like more love and attention to detail has gone into it?

So why is putting the word "home" infront of brew just as good?


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## bum (5/1/10)

Good point, dug.



mickey eyes said:


> just trying to get some support for a name change, fannyboy. out with the old and in with the new.2010.



BrewMage5000!


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## Goofinder (5/1/10)

I make beer. I do it at home. I guess that makes me a homebrewer, though if people ask I just say that I make beer.

My labels do say 'handcrafted' on them though.


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## under (5/1/10)

Lets face it. We are none of them. Just alcoholics that like cheap, nicer beer.


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## razz (5/1/10)

I voted agnostic, if I was really pushed for something as a label I'd say chemist, bucket chemist that is.


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## matt white (5/1/10)

here here under!

Craft/home...who really cares. We just make damn good beer.


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## kook (5/1/10)

Zwickel said:


> Im a "Hobbybrauer", so Im excluded from AHB now? h34r:



I first heard this term from an Austrian homebrewer/craftbrewer/hobbybrauer, at a beer festival in Hamburg. I think it's brilliant. It really reflects what we do - it's our hobby. We put time/passion in to it like any hobby. Most people associate homebrew with dodgy kit/kilos.


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## saccarin63 (5/1/10)

i know we brew our beer at home and we want to share it and push it on to the vb and standard beer drinkers to try and change there opinion on it. i just think craft brew puts a little polish on it and just might turn more people to try it.doesnt hand crafted at home sound better on a label than home brewed at home.


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## saccarin63 (5/1/10)

kook said:


> I first heard this term from an Austrian homebrewer/craftbrewer/hobbybrauer, at a beer festival in Hamburg. I think it's brilliant. It really reflects what we do - it's our hobby. We put time/passion in to it like any hobby. Most people associate homebrew with dodgy kit/kilos.


thats it kook, be passionate about it and proud of what we do.


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## Barley Belly (5/1/10)

I'm a pisshead who's always too drunk to drive to the shop to buy beer so I make it at home.

So I guess it makes me a HOMEBEERMAKER/PISSHEAD, which sadly wasn't one of the vote options


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## saccarin63 (5/1/10)

there ya go you have crafted yourself into a pisshead.


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## warra48 (5/1/10)

I'm a garage brewer. :mellow: :wub:


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## simon.sillitoe (5/1/10)

I make beer at home. If you want some I'm glad to share it. If not, your loss.

As for anything else, I don't give a shit.



Edit: missed a word. Obviously too many _home_brews ...


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## geoff_tewierik (5/1/10)

Well I've brewed at home, brewed at friends houses, brewed at microbreweries.

Spose that just makes me a "Brewer".


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## petesbrew (5/1/10)

I'm just a tinkerer in the garage. Just having fun, thats all.


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## pdilley (5/1/10)

I simply just do it, without limitation of labels.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## Adamt (5/1/10)

geoff_tewierik said:


> Well I've brewed at home, brewed at friends houses, brewed at microbreweries.
> 
> Spose that just makes me a "Brewer".



BrewWhore.


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## canon1ball (5/1/10)

Backyard Brewer
I call it hobby, my wife calls it obsession!
c1b


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## geoff_tewierik (5/1/10)

Adamt said:


> BrewWhore.



I've been called worse


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## clean brewer (5/1/10)

> and Redtube,



:icon_offtopic: Great site... h34r: 

I'm honing the "Craft" of "Homebrew"  

:icon_cheers: CB


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## jonocarroll (5/1/10)

"craft brewer"

The space is essential. I'm not the original, and I'm not the best, but I consider what I do to be a sort of craft. I could assemble a table from Ikea, but I wouldn't say that I crafted it. If I chose some wood, cut it to size, designed a table, and assembled it in the way I wanted, I would say that I had crafted that - It would be hand-crafted. It would also hold more sentimental value than the Ikea piece of crap before it falls apart.

I also agree with the stigma associated with the term "home brewer" because of the laziness of some fermentation assistants who do very little assisting. There's a fine line though - a kit with some spec malts and a personally chosen yeast would classify as craft brewed in my book, even if not done particularly well.

Gee this thread got off to a fast start.


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## Peteoz77 (5/1/10)

Wish I had read the entire thread before I replied.

I Voted "Homebrewer" but after reading all of the replies I would have voted "Craftbrewer"

The reason why?

Well, I know far too many homebrewers that brew as CHEAP as they can... Hell, I know a guy that resuses his bottlecaps, to cap his $9 Cooper kits made with Cane Sugar.

I use grain to craft my brews, and while they are not all fantastic, they are all home brewed and made to the best of my ability.. which is a CRAFT. If I brewed from kits & Kilos I might consider myself a "homebrewer" but probably not. I consider my brews quite/far superior to the reused caps and $15 brews.

just my $.02


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## Cocko (5/1/10)

I 'craft' my 'brews' at 'home' :huh: 

:icon_cheers:


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## KHB (5/1/10)

Back Yard Brewer said:


> OK so I'm a knob  , yep I like to call myself a craftbrewer h34r: I take raw ingredients and create something that is my own, and unique. Never really thought being a craftbrewer was being snobby or stuck up. My beer labels will most likely include the term "Hand Crafted" one day. "Hand Home" just doesn't sound right to me.
> 
> 
> BYB




+1 

I call myself a craftbrewer too


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## saccarin63 (5/1/10)

i feel a change,we are proud of what we craft,be gone homebrewer,welcome home craft brewer, B)


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## Howlingdog (5/1/10)

Hey, everybody has said what they call themselves - but what do other people call you?

A few years ago we were in London and having a beer at the "Brew Wharf" at London Bridge. The barman mentioned that they brew all their beers on premises. My wife said "My husband is a brewer". The brewer came out to chat to us and we talked about grain, yeast, hops and styles. He was surprised to hear that we could get TF and Bairds MO in OZ. When I told him that I only brew at home, he said "h your a real brewer, I thought you were one of those from CUB". 

So I suppose I'm a brewer - My wife thinks I am and tells people when ever the nobbs prattle on about beer. That seems to stiffle their knowledge somewhat.

HD


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## saccarin63 (5/1/10)

KHB said:


> +1
> 
> I call myself a craftbrewer too


welcome aboard khb our army is small but we will grow in numbers.


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## sav (5/1/10)

I am a craftbrewer cause I dont brew in a bag,Ha ha lol  And I have a pump.He he.
Hows that chap chap.


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## Gavo (5/1/10)

I am homebrew as a hobby, I used the term craftbrewer once and people just got confused. I like to tell people I brew for a hobby, makes people show some interest rather than tell me about their mate who uses 2 kg of sugar with thier coopers "Larger" ( the r is intentional).

Hobby brewer' good term that.

Gavo.


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## Back Yard Brewer (5/1/10)

Brewer Pete said:


> I simply just do it, without limitation of labels.
> 
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete









Peteoz77 said:


> Well, I know far too many homebrewers that brew as CHEAP as they can... Hell, I know a guy that resuses his bottlecaps, to cap his $9 Cooper kits made with Cane Sugar.



Fark, doesn't seem that long ago  





canon1ball said:


> View attachment 34392
> 
> Backyard Brewer
> I call it hobby, my wife calls it obsession!
> c1b




I have a wife that understands

Back Yard Brewer


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## benny_bjc (5/1/10)

warra48 said:


> I'm a garage brewer. :mellow: :wub:




You should brew for maltida bay 'garage brewery'... oh wait they are owned by fosters! AHAHA


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## Yeastie Beastie (5/1/10)

Homebrewer? I brew BEER at HOME..too easy!!! Looks like I am a Homebrewer plain and simple.

Beer brewed in a bath tub? NO
Wort chilled in a bath tub? YES

Home brewed beer is as good as any if not a lot better IMO!!!

YB.


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## saccarin63 (5/1/10)

Yeastie Beastie said:


> Homebrewer? I brew BEER at HOME..too easy!!! Looks like I am a Homebrewer plain and simple.
> 
> Beer brewed in a bath tub? NO
> Wort chilled in a bath tub? YES
> ...


well craft beer at home must be good also


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## WarmBeer (5/1/10)

Rather than fighting against it, I just registered the domain name "www.aussiecraftbrewer.com".

I can feel a tidal wave of change coming through the forum, and dammit, I wanna make some money off of it


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## saccarin63 (5/1/10)

i typed that early on and then deleted it.why not *** aussie craft brewer i said. nice one warm beer. were charging over the hill in numbers.


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## bum (5/1/10)

I am keeping a list of all self-proclaimed craftbrewers and an eagle-eye upon all the brews they post about. Any whomsoever shall talk about brewing someone else's recipe or doing a clone of a commercial beer shall find themselves against the wall.

VIVA LA REVOLUCION!


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## Murcluf (5/1/10)

As it was pointed out to me by AHB's own self proclaimed Grand Master of Brewing.....

When I was a Kit and Kilo brewer, I was a lowly fermentation assistant.
When I moved to partials, I was just tinkering on the stove top,
When I stepped up to BIAB, I was brewing with a wedding veil,
When I moved up to All Grain, he calls me his apprentice,
Now I make good beers and kick his butt in comps, he calls me a BLOODY ARSEHOLE...!!!!!! :lol: 

I perfer Backyard Brewer, because my wife wont let me brew inside the house and it has more of an Australian ring to it.


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## Screwtop (5/1/10)

clean brewer said:


> I'm honing the "Craft" of "Homebrew"




Yo Honie :super:


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## Back Yard Brewer (5/1/10)

Murcluf said:


> As it was pointed out to me by AHB's own self proclaimed Grand Master of Brewing.....
> 
> When I was a Kit and Kilo brewer, I was a lowly fermentation assistant.
> When I moved to partials, I was just tinkering on the stove top,
> ...




Bloody Meerkat Brewer!! :lol: 


BYB


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## kook (5/1/10)

Murcluf said:


> As it was pointed out to me by AHB's own self proclaimed Grand Master of Brewing.....
> 
> When I was a Kit and Kilo brewer, I was a lowly fermentation assistant.
> When I moved to partials, I was just tinkering on the stove top,
> ...



Just add some oak


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## IainMcLean (5/1/10)

Craft Brewer Vs. Homebrewer

If you spend time, effort and put your money where your mouth is to learn about the tools involved with something, the raw elements and processes before learning from a more experienced person and then striving to better your product aren't you a craftsman? I.E. Craft Brewer?

The guy who presses buttons on a machine on the IKEA assembly line in a factory isn't the same as the guy who hand carves fine furniture with expensive tools and carefully chosen wood.

It's just a title, and titles don't mean anything until the end product has been tested, but in my opinion I wouldn't be flocking so quickly to associate myself with mediocrity.


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## bum (5/1/10)

Iain McLean said:


> The guy who presses buttons on a machine



Uh-oh!


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## Ian Gommers (5/1/10)

I like the term "Hobby Brewer".

"Craftbrewer" brings to mind images of little old ladies stitting around a farmhouse table bottling thier latest brew in quaint little bottles and topping them with little squares of red and white check table cloth secured with twine amd aplying hand written labels ready for sale at the local farmers market/street fair.


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## sanmerah (5/1/10)

Home brewer

I have to say I didn't realise that there was this distinction of bad and good beer. At work I brought in a selection of my beers, surprisingly every single one was liked from the stouts to the quite bitter IPAs to the Alt Beers. It put some people off that I had capped with "Coopers" caps that I had bought from the supermarket. The response was "wow" that clearly isn't the same beer that I was expecting...

Calling myself a home brewer and giving quality beer in itself I believe is changing perceptions. In discussions, sure, I have explained that there is quite a lot of effort that I put into making the best beer possible.

In my own way I feel that if there _is_ a distinction of traditional homebrew being "bad" then I'd rather be called a homebrewer and be the exception than set myself up as a "craftbrewer" or other term and set the wrong expectations (what if you did have an infected bottle etc). I have purchased microbrewed beer that has had NO carbination and I've had some hefewisen from an award winning australian brewery that I and others threw out in a taste test (they are still in the fridge at work).

So Home Brewer it is for me and I also call have "hand crafted beer" on my labels!!!
my 2c


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## browndog (5/1/10)

Nob here  

-BD


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## jonocarroll (5/1/10)

QuantumBrewer said:


> I could assemble a table from Ikea, but I wouldn't say that I crafted it. If I chose some wood, cut it to size, designed a table, and assembled it in the way I wanted, I would say that I had crafted that - It would be hand-crafted. It would also hold more sentimental value than the Ikea piece of crap before it falls apart.





Iain McLean said:


> The guy who presses buttons on a machine on the IKEA assembly line in a factory isn't the same as the guy who hand carves fine furniture with expensive tools and carefully chosen wood.


Is there an echo in here?


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## Stoodoo (5/1/10)

I used to homebrew, but those days are long gone and below me, for now I craft my brews. I pick the grains, hops and yeast that I want to brew with.
Face it guys, what's nearly the first thing that goes on in someones mind when you tell them you homebrew? I'll tell you, they think your a cheapskate/tight#rse looking to make the cheapest plonk you can.

BTW, do you think we can have the sites' name changed to AussieCraftBrewer, AussieHomeBrewer just sounds so damn nasty  

Cheers


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## hoohaaman (5/1/10)

Well I nigh dip me willie/wellie in that muck


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## chappo1970 (6/1/10)

bradsbrew said:


> I am a homebrewer that makes craft beer.



I love this statement and that's exactly where I think I am at Brad.



Zwickel said:


> Im a "Hobbybrauer", so Im excluded from AHB now?



Never would we here in Australia and AHB exclude our very own German bratwurst.



Screwtop said:


> Being a Knob i'm not far off being an Artisanal Brewer....
> 
> Screwy



Uh there is sooooooo much to add here but we all know Screwy is Da Serious Brewer Man.  



dug said:


> why do you think that "homebrew" is bad, I mean commercial food outlets say "home made food", as if putting the "home" in the front makes its better. does it make it sound like more love and attention to detail has gone into it?
> 
> So why is putting the word "home" infront of brew just as good?



I agree Dug but put home + brew together and that's when the fur flies.



sav said:


> I am a craftbrewer cause I dont brew in a bag,Ha ha lol And I have a pump.He he.
> Hows that chap chap.



Here here perfect Sav and those without pumps are just try hards huh? h34r: 



Thirstybunyip said:


> I like the term "Hobby Brewer".
> 
> "Craftbrewer" brings to mind images of little old ladies stitting around a farmhouse table bottling thier latest brew in quaint little bottles and topping them with little squares of red and white check table cloth secured with twine amd aplying hand written labels ready for sale at the local farmers market/street fair.



Tb I think this is what doesn't sit well with me when the tern "craft' is used. Maybe I was dragged by Grandma to way to many Bridge morning teas and Quilting outings as a child?



browndog said:


> Nob here
> 
> -BD



Duh! Well we all knew that! 

Who knew we were all such passionate *brewers*?


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## manticle (6/1/10)

I think the original point was to rubbish the stupid idea that there was an absolute distinction between home brewers as people who didn't give a crap about their final product and craftebrewers as some kind of anal technical magical artist type person. Just read how stupid the original quote actually is to anyone with a modicum of grey coloured cellular material.

The main word is 'brewer' and while there are people out there who produce low quality cheap alcohol (and some of them work for major commercial breweries) it's really a dig at someone who should know better.

I make home brew and I care about very much about crafting it and refining it and improving it thankyou Mr S. No major distinction in my mind and no aspersions cast on the way anyone chooses to phrase it. I'm more interested in their processes, knowledge and above all - interest in expanding that knowledge and willingness to share that knowledge.

Craft schmaft, home schmome.

I know I answered already but the whole thing's a bit of a wank. I brew beer. I don't 'home brew' beer and I don't 'craft brew' beer. I just brew it and try to make each batch better than the last.

I also brew cider and wish to make wine and maybe some other fermented beverages because I'm interested in process rather than how everybody else perceives what level I'm at.

Some other people made this point in less words than I did, already.

Yim


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## hoohaaman (6/1/10)

we are all homebrewers,thus the forum name.Simple really


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## kook (6/1/10)

manticle said:


> I think the original point was to rubbish the stupid idea that there was an absolute distinction between home brewers as people who didn't give a crap about their final product and craftebrewers as some kind of anal technical magical artist type person. Just read how stupid the original quote actually is to anyone with a modicum of grey coloured cellular material.



So really, this is just six pages of debate about a trolling statement? Doesn't that just help to satisfy their ego even more? h34r:


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## manticle (6/1/10)

Yep.

I think that's why my original response was "And the above quote was so ridiculous I didn't even think it warranted a response" (first post).

Now I'm responding to responses that were responding to something that didn't warrant a response and the whole world's gone topsy turvy.

Round and round we go. 


I have a liver condition and it requires constant supervision.


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## Pete2501 (6/1/10)

I have one where is needs alcohol to keep it active.


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## matti (6/1/10)

we are all Home-brewers.
Experience and practice and learning through communication here or else where, enables you to pick up the craft.

A craft person is some one who dedicates a major part of their life to the art of brewing.

I was "crafty" home brewer.
But with less then Dozen brews for 2009, 

AAAAARGHHHHntagonist brewer ATM :huh:


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## Barry (6/1/10)

Agnostic, I brew.


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## Screwtop (6/1/10)

Seems ar fellow knob had some input into the design of my new aussiehomebrewer.com T shirt.

The graphic represents Malt, Hops, Kettle and Beer. No sign of a Tin or spoon :lol:

Happy with that,


Screwy


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## Scruffy (6/1/10)

Reverse Alchemist. 

I turn gold(en barley) into a muddy liquid...


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## FNQ Bunyip (6/1/10)

Craftbrewer here in the north ... 

I like Screwtop and BYB's replys .... 

Cheers


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## Steve (6/1/10)

Im a homebrewer trying to craft a good beer. When I have mastered the craft* I will call myself a craftbrewer.
Cheers
Steve

*This will never happen.


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## wabster (6/1/10)

I brew beer at home.

Sometimes I get my sugars from grain, sometimes from a can, sometimes from a combination of the two.

I recently had a wide range and large number of tradies at my house, who enjoyed my beer in substantial quantity.

I had them discussing various styles and flaws, and they concluded that my brew is reasonably good. Some insisted it was the best beer, of any kind, they had ever consumed.

My friends enjoy my beers, and I do to though I rarely drink much these days.

I enjoy discussing beer, getting people to understand that it is not just made in factories and can have infinite variations.

But I am just a home brewer. I do other crafts, but am still just a home brewer. I don't care what the masses might think of the term and its negative connotations. Craft brewer is a wank term 

Cheerz Wabster.


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## Screwtop (6/1/10)

wabster said:


> I do other crafts
> 
> I don't care what the masses might think of the term and its negative connotations. Craft brewer is a wank term




Chk Chk...Boom. Right in the foot :lol:

Screwy


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## Oatlands Brewer (6/1/10)

GOD DAMN IT..........

IF we all call ourselves something other than home brewers that means Dane will have to change the forums name from "Aussiehomebrewer.com.au" to "whatever.com.au"....then we will have to get the t-shirts from the bulk buy all re-done and i only just got mine in the mail today and havent even worn yet.......Nice they are too.


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## Gavo (6/1/10)

sav said:


> I am a craftbrewer cause I dont brew in a bag,Ha ha lol  And I have a pump.He he.






Chappo said:


> Here here perfect Sav and those without pumps are just try hards huh? h34r:




:huh: Let me see... I will now have to re-classify...

I must be a homebrewing try-hard craftbrewer... I don't brew in a bag and I don't have a pump.  


Gavo.


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## WSC (6/1/10)

Craft Brewer....too much effort goes into my beers.

I don't want people thinking my beer is like the sugar and kit stuff their old man/brother/FIL used to make when the beer strikes were on!!

It's a personal thing, I don't want to be labelled as a cheap arse/dodgy brewer.

I agree with many of the points for and against, but for me it's craft.


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## Kevman (6/1/10)

This is got to be biggest [email protected] topic on this whole site.

What's a home brewer? Anyone that brews at home. This includes people, like my dad, who goes to the supermarket, picks up the same can everytime, thows in a kilo of dextrose and ferments using the kit yeast. The results are variable to say the least. There are probably thousands of home brewers in the community who brew this way because they don't know any different.

What's a craft brewer? Is a K&K who uses non-kit yeasts and temp controls his brews a craftbrewer? They are trying to create better beer and care about the results. 

Or is it only AG brewers who do everything from scratch? 

@Chappo - perhaps you should define what you think is a craftbrewer rather than use someone else's words to attack them.

I answered home brewer because I'm an Australian and we don't need wanky terms to describe ourselves. We just let the results speak for themselves.


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## zebba (6/1/10)

I love to cook. I'm good at it. I have a collection of books, but I also go about experimenting and trying to make my own, personal dishes. I've got a garden full of herbs, fruit, etc, and they aren't there for show. 

I'm not a chef (craftbrewer). Neither is the slimy looking kid working the cookers @ KFC (megaswill-brewer h34r: )
- (who is quite possibly an awesome home cook) 

I make beer. Not great beer, but I'm getting better every day and they are all to my own recipies. Labels schmables.


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## mckenry (6/1/10)

Kevman said:


> This is got to be biggest [email protected] topic on this whole site.
> 
> What's a home brewer? Anyone that brews at home. This includes people, like my dad, who goes to the supermarket, picks up the same can everytime, thows in a kilo of dextrose and ferments using the kit yeast. The results are variable to say the least. There are probably thousands of home brewers in the community who brew this way because they don't know any different.



This is EXACTLY why I say craftbrewer. Homebrewer has the connotations above. You said it, but still want the same label?



Kevman said:


> I answered home brewer because I'm an Australian and we don't need wanky terms to describe ourselves. We just let the results speak for themselves.





Kevman said:


> The results are variable to say the least.



Still want the label? Being Australian has nothing to do with it.


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## hughman666 (6/1/10)

brewing is a craft. the term "homebrewing" simply applies a location to your craftbrewing.

for example a lot of us have an AG setup that in principle follows the same steps as a typical commcerical micro, just on a smaller scale.

so at this stage we are homebrewers. however if we ever get to the nirvana that a lot of us aim for and open a micro of our own, we will then be a craftbrewer as we're not brewing at home anymore. the beer will still be the same ingredients and process.

so what happens then if you open a micro and live on the premises, like the folks at cowaramup brewing company? is jeremy still a homebrewer? funny thing is, he would probably happily say YES!

:beer:


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## TidalPete (6/1/10)

As you can see some brewers aren't too keen on the "homebrewer" tag.  
Have a look at the other tees on the site.

TP


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## chappo1970 (6/1/10)

Kevman said:


> @Chappo - perhaps you should define what you think is a craftbrewer rather than use someone else's words to attack them.



Settle Pettle! WTF what attack and where? Bit early to be on the high horse isn't it? 

I used the exact words that inspired me to ask the question of the forum. I offered my opinion, which under the current laws of the land I believe I can or is that only permissible by others such as yourself? I did not attack that person personally, I didn't name them or imply who that person is or direct anyone to the thread where is was originally posted. If others picked up where it came from I can't reasonably be held responsible for that, can I? Apparently I can? I used his/her or its views on a very topical matter close to my heart and opened up the debate as it was deemed off topic in the thread it was originally raised in. Is this not reasonable to do?

I don't beat around the bush if wanted to start a sh1t fight i would have named that person and quoted the thread outright or if the mood took me "Logan Bogan" style, out and out punched 'im the head. I DID NOT WANT THAT. So I suggest you pull your head in, not call out people for no other reason but stir (yes you got a bite from me Kudos to you) and lets just have a reasonable adult and spirited debate for once without the higher than god is mighty [email protected] that seems to dominate this forum.

Peace and beers :icon_cheers: 

Chappo


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## bonj (6/1/10)

"I've always said, there's nothing an agnostic can't do, if he doesn't know whether he believes in anything or not" -Monty Python


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## Murcluf (6/1/10)

WarmBeer said:


> Rather than fighting against it, I just registered the domain name "www.aussiecraftbrewer.com".
> 
> I can feel a tidal wave of change coming through the forum, and dammit, I wanna make some money off of it


Is that a Parallel Universe forum where a member named citiesville tries to flog small amounts of high quality Australian hops to the unsuspecting Chinese members...???


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## Snow (6/1/10)

Kevman said:


> This is got to be biggest [email protected] topic on this whole site.
> 
> @Chappo - perhaps you should define what you think is a craftbrewer rather than use someone else's words to attack them.



Ha ha ! :lol: Caught you wanking!

Mate settle down. Chappo is not attacking anyone, he is bringing up a logical debate that follows a pretty arrogant statement from the self-proclaimed "Craftbrewer" with a capital "C", no less.

Having said that, I think craftbrewer is a wank term, because we are all just brewers. The only differentiation really, should be whether we are professional or amateur. Someone making good, award winning beer with a Coopers tin and a handful of fresh hops in the secondary is still "crafting" a beer, and if they do a liquid yeast starter and use a temperature controller, and rack to secondary, and are fastidious about sanitation, then they may well be a "better" brewer than a so-called "craftbrewer" who just crushes some grain, soaks it in hot water, boils it and ferments it in the back shed with a packet of Safale. Once we start applying elitist terms to what we do, we're on a slippery slope......

Cheers - Snow.


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## SpillsMostOfIt (6/1/10)

Bonj said:


> "I've always said, there's nothing an agnostic can't do, if he doesn't know whether he believes in anything or not" -Monty Python



My current motto is "Of course I don't know what I'm doing. Do you think I would be doing it if I did?"

I think of myself as someone who brews. It's a short walk from my home up the hill to my brewery and there is definitely an element of craft (and of art) to what I do. I don't do it professionally.

Home-based artisan craft brewer (abbreviated to 'wanker').

Are the Kooinda guys home brewers? Or just one of them?


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## chappo1970 (6/1/10)

Snow said:


> Having said that, I think craftbrewer is a wank term, because we are all just brewers. The only differentiation really, should be whether we are professional or amateur. Someone making good, award winning beer with a Coopers tin and a handful of fresh hops in the secondary is still "crafting" a beer, and if they do a liquid yeast starter and use a temperature controller, and rack to secondary, and are fastidious about sanitation, then they may well be a "better" brewer than a so-called "craftbrewer" who just crushes some grain, soaks it in hot water, boils it and ferments it in the back shed with a packet of Safale. Once we start applying elitist terms to what we do, we're on a slippery slope......
> 
> Cheers - Snow.



Exactly my sentiments Snow, i wish i could have said it that way myself. :icon_cheers: Instead of going on a rant.

Truth be told I don't mind the term "Amateur Brewer". It says it all with out the perceived "homebrew" stigma.

Chap Chap


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## lonte (6/1/10)

My $0.02 is that I have found that most people's reaction to "home brew" (even from commercial craft brew drinkers) is that horrified look as they recall their uncle's paint-thinner batches of the 70's. I also find it too long winded to go the "... yes but not supermarket tins, I start with Barley ..." route but find that the term craftbrewer is meaningless to most people and they end up simplifying it to 'home brewer' anyway.

I have been extremely tempted of late to just introduce myself as a brewer and if they choose to conclude that is my profession rather than hobby, so be it.

It would be nice to find a term that differentiates what we do these days (be it kit, All grain or whatever) from the bath-tub/garbage bin shockers of old but I think that might be a generation or so away.


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## HoppingMad (6/1/10)

I'm an agnostic. 

If people want to call me one or the other so be it but labels don't concern me.

It's about the beer for me, not the job description. :chug: 

Hopper.


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## lonte (6/1/10)

warra48 said:


> I'm a garage brewer. :mellow: :wub:


I allow my wife to park her car in my brewery


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## absinthe (6/1/10)

lonte said:


> My $0.02 is that I have found that most people's reaction to "home brew" (even from commercial craft brew drinkers) is that horrified look as they recall their uncle's paint-thinner batches of the 70's. I also find it too long winded to go the "... yes but not supermarket tins, I start with Barley ..." route but find that the term craftbrewer is meaningless to most people and they end up simplifying it to 'home brewer' anyway.
> 
> I have been extremely tempted of late to just introduce myself as a brewer and if they choose to conclude that is my profession rather than hobby, so be it.
> 
> It would be nice to find a term that differentiates what we do these days (be it kit, All grain or whatever) from the bath-tub/garbage bin shockers of old but I think that might be a generation or so away.


+1


i don't use "home-brew" anymore because of the bad batches the majority have made/tried. people would turn up their noses when you say would you like to try my home-brew?

i say "do you want a beer?" and get much better responses. i then wait for them to try it before i tell em i brewed it

i chose craft-brewer but im just a brewer, i run a small brewery, i even have a small on site malting's. now when you say that you run a small brewery everyone want to try your beer cause it sounds like you do it for money


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## jonocarroll (6/1/10)

Snow said:


> Having said that, I think craftbrewer is a wank term, because we are all just brewers. The only differentiation really, should be whether we are professional or amateur. Someone making good, award winning beer with a Coopers tin and a handful of fresh hops in the secondary is still "crafting" a beer, and if they do a liquid yeast starter and use a temperature controller, and rack to secondary, and are fastidious about sanitation, then they may well be a "better" brewer than a so-called "craftbrewer" who just crushes some grain, soaks it in hot water, boils it and ferments it in the back shed with a packet of Safale.


I think this actually backs up the argument of 'craft brew' vs 'home brew' - the person adding the hops to the Coopers tin could have done so with a goal in mind of what they want to achieve, and thus they are crafting their result. Someone who blindly adds grain to water and ferments with no interest in the process would fall under my definition of 'home brewer' since they aren't crafting anything, they're following instructions (albeit slightly more complicated ones).

There was no mention anywhere in there of which result would taste better. That's got nothing to do with the definition. I don't find craft-brewer to be an elitist term at all, just a better description - one that describes the act of crafting a product rather than following the instructions.


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## mckenry (6/1/10)

Chappo said:


> It says it all with out the perceived "homebrew" stigma.
> Chap Chap



Yes, we brew at home. I dont take offence at being called a homebrewer, especially by a fellow brewer. There is however, from the general public a deep-seated prejudice about homebrew. This arose mostly from 'homebrewers' brewing rubbish and forcing it on mates, relatives, neighbours & colleagues.
The homebrew stigma is one reason I call myself a craftbrewer. The other is I never though of an alternative.
I am happy to go with other suggestions such as amateur brewer or hobby brewer, but I try not to use the term homebrewer to the uneducated purely because of said stigma.

Wine lover or wine connisseur? One says drinks too much, the other says understands wine, to me. Not being a wine drinker, thats my 'joe average preconceived idea' on wine. Anyone who tells me they're a wine connisseur does not make him/her a wanker.

Same goes for homebrewer or craftbrewer.


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## Lilo (6/1/10)

Don't giver a rats what I am called or thought of

Quite happy with "Crazy bastard who gets up before dawn to play with all sorts of dodgy sh*t in his shed to make Beer".

Craft/Hobby/Amateur/dopey/etc stuff em and what they think

If you have the need to be a suit wearing crafty pretentious bloke who needs much recognition and has many letters after your name... on ya, I'm not that clever.

I'm with the Chappo school of Torana drivin vegimite must be an inch thick on my toast thong wearing, forced to go to fancy restaraunt, have a 10 yr old suit in case I have to go to court school of thinking.


I'm a Crafty Amateur Homebrewing Ozzie and proud of it

Lilo


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## JonnyAnchovy (6/1/10)

"Brewer" by itself avoids the boganoid, table sugar toting, 28 degree Celsius fermenting connotations of "homebrewer", and at the same time avoids the cringe I get at the undenyable wankyness of describing myself as "craftbrewer".

Brewer does me just fine.


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## jonocarroll (6/1/10)

Lilo said:


> Don't giver a rats what I am called or thought of
> 
> Quite happy with "Crazy bastard who gets up before dawn to play with all sorts of dodgy sh*t in his shed to make Beer".
> 
> ...


This sorta screams anti-intellectualism to me. Or perhaps some insecurity for one's manliness. I see no reason why someone can't take pride in how they make their beer (and the genuine interest in making it better) while munching on inch-thick vegemite toast in their thongs.

... unless of course you're implying that you just make it to get pissed and don't care what it tastes like. Does being an over-the-top ocker bloke prevent anyone from thinking about whether they would prefer saaz or POR in their beer? If such a decision isn't manly enough for you to tell your mates about, then perhaps you had better not consider how wanky this hobby can be :blink: 

Maybe you can protect your manly ways and still be a 'wanky craft brewer'...

'Oi, Bazza! Chuck us that late hop addition and a whirlfloc, ya dumb feck. I'm aerating me starter'


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## Polar Beer (6/1/10)

I love calling myself a home brewer, handing people a very well cared for glass of AG, knocking thier socks off and boring them for hours on how I acheived it.  
I'll proudly and loudly declare I'm a HB to anyone who will listen. Everytime I do this I dispel the myths and horror stories of the truly horrible HB we've all seen. Im constantly encouraging other people to pick up the hobby at kit stage and do it right (rule 1. ignore the kit instructions). Each time it gets us all one step closer to shrugging off the bad reputaion the HB tag has. 

Don't be a poser. It is what it is. Live with it. B) 

FWIW, In my mind Craft Brewers are pro's eg: Micros or guys who sell their beer or are good enough to win a comp that gets them on tap somewhere. (please don't confuse with mega brewery owned boutique beer brands). In short, if I can't buy it over the bar/bottle O - you aint a craftbrewer.


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## Hutch (6/1/10)

Polar Beer said:


> I love calling myself a home brewer, handing people a very well cared for glass of AG, knocking thier socks off and boring them for hours on how I acheived it.
> I'll proudly and loudly declare I'm a HB to anyone who will listen. Everytime I do this I dispel the myths and horror stories of the truly horrible HB we've all seen. Im constantly encouraging other people to pick up the hobby at kit stage and do it right (rule 1. ignore the kit instructions). Each time it gets us all one step closer to shrugging off the bad reputaion the HB tag has.
> 
> Don't be a poser. It is what it is. Live with it. B)
> ...



Couldn't have said it better PB.
For better or worse, we all have to live with the stigma of what "homebrewing" used to be, and the negative connotations people associate with the name.
It is up to us to re-educate people with where the hobby has moved to, with the majority of us producing beers far better than most commercial stuff. 

I'm not against anyone calling themselves a "Craftbrewer" if that rocks their boat, but IMO, as long as we're making beer at home, and not at a micro/megabrewery, we ARE "Homebrewers" - Live with it, and re-edumacate the masses.


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## MarkBastard (6/1/10)

IMO if you brew beer at home you're a home brewer. If you brew beer commercially on a small hand crafted scale you're a craft brewer. If you are a home brewer but think you're a craft brewer, you're really a wanker.


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## bonj (6/1/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> IMO if you brew beer at home you're a home brewer. If you brew beer commercially on a small hand crafted scale you're a craft brewer. If you are a home brewer but think you're a craft brewer, you're really a wanker.


I disagree. If you hand craft your beer, on whatever scale, you are a craft brewer. If you do it at home, you are also a home brewer. To me, craft brewing has connotations of care.. that you care for what you're doing and you put that care into crafting your beer. It also has connotations of quality. Home brewing to me, means however you choose to brew, you do it at home... that's all.


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## SpillsMostOfIt (6/1/10)

No takers on the Kooinda question, I see...

What about the guys who help out at 3Ravens for nothing more than the romance of it and a free beer occasionally?

What about the AHB member (I apologise for forgetting your nick) who has brewed their beer on/in a commercial brewery as part of a prize? Not at home, not professionally, so neither fish nor fowl?

Perhaps you are what you think you are? (I still think I'm a wanker.)


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## Gavo (6/1/10)

If you brew beer commercially on a small hand crafted scale aren't you then a micro-brewery that craftbrews beer?

Gavo.


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## dpadden (6/1/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> If you are a home brewer but think you're a craft brewer, you're really a wanker.



Ok Mark if you say so... :lol:


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## geoffd (6/1/10)

Amateur craft homebrewer.

Amateur; I do not get paid to do it; this makes no inference to quality as pointed out earlier with Olympic reference

Craft; as in write recipe, design mash, use yeast in a controlled manner to obtain a particular result, hop schedule, water modification & general manipulation of the ingredients & processes.

Homebrewer; as in I brew in my home, not in the garage, the *home*!  

Beer that is made from a kit & kilo, in my mind is not a handcrafted beer by the brewer, regarless of it's quality or lack of. Therefore a K&K brewer is not a craft brewer.

I do not regard K&K homebrewers as inferior, they are getting what they want out of brewing & are happy with it. Excellent beers can be made from kits, but they have been crafted by the manufacturer.

Happy New Year


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## Pete2501 (6/1/10)

Ninja Brewer.


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## HoppingMad (6/1/10)

Pete2501 said:


> Ninja Brewer.


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## Trav (6/1/10)

SpillsMostOfIt said:


> No takers on the Kooinda question, I see...
> 
> What about the guys who help out at 3Ravens for nothing more than the romance of it and a free beer occasionally?
> 
> ...



Hi mate, yeah 3 of us are from a Homebrewing background (all grain) and the other 2 just enjoy drinking it  .
Is has been great being able to apply those years of homebrewing to our microbrewery business. Its a great feeling to craft a recipe and have it on the market. 3 Heads are better than one. Problem is we all like different styles  
Trav


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## porky (6/1/10)

Father Jack said:


> Homebrewer; as in I brew in my home, not in the garage, the *home*!




That would make me a shed brewer.

I brew craft brews in my shed.

Cheers,
Bud


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## beersom (6/1/10)

I'm a brewer.
When I brew at home.... I'm a brewer.
When I brew at work ... I'm a brewer.
When I brew at someone else's home... I'm a brewer.
I'm a brewer.
I make beer that is termed as craft beer.
I'm a brewer.
I quite like the term Amateur Brewer instead of home brewer..... nothing wrong with not being paid to make great beer for yourself.
I get paid to make (craft)beer so I guess that makes me a commercial brewer/proffesional brewer/....craftbrewer?.... /sellout to my homebrewing roots ...  
Nothing against the term craftbrewer.... I just prefer Amateur brewer or even just... brewer.


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## Howlingdog (6/1/10)

SpillsMostOfIt said:


> No takers on the Kooinda question, I see...
> 
> What about the guys who help out at 3Ravens for nothing more than the romance of it and a free beer occasionally?
> 
> ...



Now that's a ChampionBrewer!!


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## Wardhog (7/1/10)

I picked craftbrewer because I like to make people aware that there's so much more to beer than Victoria Bitter and godawful rocketfuel homebrew. I find people are more likely to stop and say "what's one of those?" and be interested in more information if you identify yourself as a craftbrewer.
Some people who you say that you're a "homebrewer" to, you can see their instant dismissal of you as someone out to get drunk as they can for as little expenditure as possible on their faces.

Although I am coming to learn that most people don't want to learn new things, so I find myself just saying "homebrewer" more and more these days. My desire to educate everyone is just about dead. F*%k 'em if they don't want to learn.


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## Screwtop (7/1/10)

Bonj said:


> I disagree. If you hand craft your beer, on whatever scale, you are a craft brewer. If you do it at home, you are also a home brewer. To me, craft brewing has connotations of care.. that you care for what you're doing and you put that care into crafting your beer. It also has connotations of quality. Home brewing to me, means however you choose to brew, you do it at home... that's all.




Difficult to argue with ligic !!! But still this IS AHB

Screwy


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## The Scientist (7/1/10)

Hi all, Master Craftbrewer from the Benevolent Brewery here.....ha ha I crack myself up :lol: 

Well I am a lot of things, some of the tasks which relate to brewing that I have undertaken include:

- Water analyst
- Maltster
- Miller
- Hop farmer
- Boiler maker
- Plumber
- Yeast culture developer
- Recipe formulation
- Marketing manager
- Graphic artist
- Sales rep
- Procurement officer 

All of these jobs which I've done and I class myself as a brewer. I not only brew at home but thats where I do most of it and I don't think it matters what what you or others label brewing at your relavent level. What matters is what your final out come is....good beer. There are a few professional brewers out there who I'd call shit brewers, yet they still get to profess they are in the industry. To each his own :icon_cheers: 

When you tell some random you are a Home brewer and he rolls his eyes back. Just smile and think to yourself, that this person has no idea of the wonderous world which is being a brewer :beerbang: 

Cheers

TS


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## lonte (7/1/10)

Thinking more about this and since my brew day seems to be 90% washing up maybe I'm more a dish washer?? Now, am I a _craft _dishwasher, or ...


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## chappo1970 (7/1/10)

lonte said:


> Thinking more about this and since my brew day seems to be 90% washing up maybe I'm more a dish washer?? Now, am I a _craft _dishwasher, or ...



:lol: Pure Gold

Yes I reckon I am more of a Chief Dish Bitch and Bottle Washer.


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## SpillsMostOfIt (7/1/10)

Brewers and theatre nurses...


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## randyrob (7/1/10)

Not on the poll but i'd go with Hobby Brewer as suggested by Zwickel & Kook in previous posts.

To confirm this take a trip to your local newsagents and homebrew magazines appear in the "Hobby" section not the "Craft" section




Rob.


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## Screwtop (7/1/10)

lonte said:


> Thinking more about this and since my brew day seems to be 90% washing up maybe I'm more a dish washer?? Now, am I a _craft _dishwasher, or ...




After my little "time out of life" back in August, I have Craft. Can't Remember A Fcuking Thing :lol:

Screwy


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## Goofinder (7/1/10)

randyrob said:


> To confirm this take a trip to your local newsagents and homebrew magazines appear in the "Hobby" section not the "Craft" section


I get mine from the Food & Wine section usually...


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## HoppingMad (7/1/10)

budwiser said:


> That would make me a shed brewer.
> 
> I brew craft brews in my shed.
> 
> ...



I'm agnostic now, but used to be a 'Laundry Brewer'. Made quite a nice lighter style beer I dubbed 'Tumble Dry' too.  

Hopper.


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## Muggus (7/1/10)

Craft brewer doesn't sound nearly pretentious for yours truely.
I prefer the term "Brew Master" or "Beersmith", and generally wear a badge affirming my position whilst brewing, not to mention overalls, goggles and large boots.


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## bonj (7/1/10)

Muggus said:


> Craft brewer doesn't sound nearly pretentious for yours truely.
> I prefer the term "Brew Master" or "Beersmith", and generally wear a badge affirming my position whilst brewing, not to mention overalls, goggles and large boots.


What about the lab coat? Your outfit isn't complete without a lab coat!


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## Muggus (7/1/10)

Bonj said:


> What about the lab coat? Your outfit isn't complete without a lab coat!


Oh yeah!
Possibly the best article of brew-clothing in existence, how could I forget.
Nothing better than brewing a beer and looking like a scientist out of a Bond movie at the same time.


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## Pollux (7/1/10)

LOL, a lab cost, because we don't all have neighbours that already think we are drug barons......


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## Fatgodzilla (7/1/10)

Muggus said:


> Craft brewer doesn't sound nearly pretentious for yours truely.
> I prefer the term "Brew Master" or "Beersmith", and generally wear a badge affirming my position whilst brewing, not to mention overalls, goggles and large boots.




Craft brewers are for professionals I reckon. F%$ing good homebrewers are titles for people like you Mug. Goggles and boots though .. what, you a messy bastard or something ... says me ..hehehe. Brewmaster sounds like pretentious twat. Beersmith is a software program. 

F*&"ing keen homebrewers are titles for people like me.

Titles are crap .. says the only communist accountant in Australia. Boys, I have lots of titles apart from the funny ones, a title means jack squat unless you trully earn it and your peers endow it on you. 

I love homebrewed beer, though would love a title that differentuates me as a homebrewer from those people who K & K. Still haven't found one I like.




So keep raving on blokes.



ps Definitely not having a shot at Muggus, Bonj or Pollux, whom I love like brew brothers and possibly, in Bonj's case, ruined his swag.


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## Muggus (7/1/10)

Pollux said:


> LOL, a lab cost, because we don't all have neighbours that already think we are drug barons......


I think they're onto me when I come home with a bag full of dextrose.


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## Brewer_010 (7/1/10)

At time of posting, craftbewers (57) ; homebrewers (68) - - - maybe this site will have to be called "Aussie Craft Brewer" (***) soon.

Back to the embroidery.


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## winkle (7/1/10)

Goofinder said:


> I get mine from the Food & Wine section usually...



Beer Chef :blink: .


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## Lilo (7/1/10)

Fatgodzilla said:


> Craft brewers are for professionals I reckon. F%$ing good homebrewers are titles for people like you Mug. Goggles and boots though .. what, you a messy bastard or something ... says me ..hehehe. Brewmaster sounds like pretentious twat. Beersmith is a software program.
> 
> F*&"ing keen homebrewers are titles for people like me.
> 
> ...





+1... what I was trying to say but not very well earlier on


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## Muggus (7/1/10)

Fatgodzilla said:


> I love homebrewed beer, though would love a title that differentuates me as a homebrewer from those people who K & K. Still haven't found one I like.


You raise an interesting point here Fatz.
Mainly because something like a K&K beer isn't so much 'brewed', rather simply 'made'. No physical brewing required.
Whereas, enduring the milling, mashing, lautering, sparging, boiling, cooling, and fermenting (i may have missed something here!) of an AG batch of beer is much more an epic days work, and worthy of the term "brewing".

Unfortunately "homebrew" will always have the stigma of bad KnK brews, so really there should be a term to differentiate between both. Especially consider almost all of the beer drinking nation has no idea what kind of processes go into making a glass of fine beer!


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## geoff_tewierik (7/1/10)

Brewer_010 said:


> At time of posting, craftbewers (57) ; homebrewers (68)



You missed the couple of agnostics and beersom and myself are "brewers" - scary I'm on the same thought track as Ian :huh: 



Brewer_010 said:


> Back to the embroidery.



You dropped a stitch by the way


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## Sully (7/1/10)

I'm a drinker with a brewing problem. I go to group therapy sessions once a month with other people who suffer with the same disorder.... does that count?


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## geoff_tewierik (7/1/10)

Sully said:


> I'm a drinker with a brewing problem. I go to group therapy sessions once a month with other people who suffer with the same disorder.... does that count?



I think I go to the same group therapy.


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## lonte (7/1/10)

Sully said:


> I'm a drinker with a brewing problem.


 :icon_offtopic: Reminds me of the Hash House Harriers:

A running club with a drinking problem.
A drinking club with a running problem.
A club with no F^$$##*ing problems!!!

On On!


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## mauriceatron (7/1/10)

I'm a homebrewer. I hate that the nationals in Australia are called the "Amateur" brewers. It should be home brewers, not amateur. But then again, that's not all I hate about that competition........


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## /// (7/1/10)

Fatgodzilla said:


> Titles are crap ..



As Ian meant to say;

I make beer, therefore I am.

Scotty


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## Adamt (7/1/10)

mauriceatron said:


> I'm a homebrewer. I hate that the nationals in Australia are called the "Amateur" brewers. It should be home brewers, not amateur. But then again, that's not all I hate about that competition........



Amateur is another one of those words that has a certain stigma attached to it, just like "homebrewer". Amateur really just means you don't make a living off it, and homebrewing means you brew at home.


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## katzke (8/1/10)

Quick reply I hope.

Words mean things and we are always messing with them. Because words are used differently in different countries I will stick with what has been used and is used in the USA.

Not old enough nor have studied brewing history so will start with the relatively recent explosion in brewing. We had breweries with local and national distribution. They brewed popular but not the best beer. If you wanted something besides what they offered you bought stale imports or brewed at home. That is where homebrewer came from.

When some homebrewers took the chance and fought for the ability to brew small commercial batches that is when the term craftbrewer came from. It was used I guess more for marketing to distance them selves from the poor selection and quality of the big corporate brewers.

They then started to get technical in describing a brewery based on how many barrels they produce yearly and how they sell. A brew pub only brews and sells on site. They are limited as to how many barrels they can brew. Then there are micro breweries and craft breweries. I am sure I missed something but that is how I understand the system.

If I called myself a craftbrewer people would want to know the name of my brewery and where they can buy my product. The terms used here are homebrewer for anyone that brews at home and a brewer for anyone that actually brews in a commercial brewery. If you are a brewer and into titles then you may use assistant brewer or brew master depending on position.

The odd thing is once a person becomes a brewer they usually stop home brewing. I guess it is like taking work home. Plus any good brewer is always working on test batches for product development.


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## lonte (12/2/10)

Apologies for dragging up a dead thread but ... a neighbour spotted me cleaning up post-brewday just recently and we got chatting about brewing. At one point as I started to launch into my 5-page description of "I don't use kits, I start with grain ..." he just said "So you brew the _Traditional Way_ then?". So I plan on using that as a succinct explanation and if someone is interested enough to pursue what that means then it allows me to go into greater detail.


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## Uncle Fester (12/2/10)

I guess it depends if you offer your beer as "Homebrew" or "Craft Beer"

On that criteria, I am a homebrewer.

I do, however believe that it is a craft and a science to make the best beer possible.

Therefore, I am a home brewer, a craft brewer, and alchemist and a scientist.


I feel so special now :lol: 

Fester Out.


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## WSC (12/2/10)

This thread has inspired me to make a shirt, haven't ordered it yet.

http://www.zazzle.com/make_beer_not_labels...019271885104494

This site is good fun too.

If anyone buys it I will donate the profit to AHB.


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## InCider (12/2/10)

Screwtop said:


> Better count me in the knob category. I even measure the gravity with a thingy.




Too right! High highfalutin' thingy users! 

I voted CRAFTBREWER - because I choose the ingredients based on quality (and fermentability!)


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## Barry (12/2/10)

I offer a beer as a beer. It meets the good, OK or bad reponses based on its quality (given the qualityof the drinker).


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## Guide to Brweing (13/2/10)

Homebrewer too, :icon_cheers:


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