# My brew controller box



## Truman42

Well with lots of help from QldKev (He's doing a build himself so we've been collaborating along the way, sharing ideas, and components etc) I'm half way through my brew controller. Started out with a first aid cabinet from Bunnings, measured and cut out all of my holes and cut outs for the pids etc and then painted it with hammer tone charcoal paint.

Here's the enclosure with the outlet sockets on the side.





And here is the inside with heat sinks, SSRs, fan, 12 volt transformer (to run the fan, the 2 HLT SSR,s and the 12 volt pid lights.) I have two XLR connectors in the rear for my HLT and Herms probes.




And here is the front panel. Just waiting on my pids and some 12 volt lights to arrive on eBay 




What was supposed to be a project over several months using my brew budget to buy everything I needed a bit at a time, turned out to be something I've knocked together in just under a month so far. Can't help myself...

And QldKevs help along the way was invaluable.


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## mxd

looks good mate, where did you get the sockets from ?

Are you going to have male sockets as well to provide power or just chop an extension lead ?

thanks
Matt


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## Truman42

You can buy the sockets from Lawrence and Hanson for about $15 each. 

But I found a powder coated metal power board at work that had about 10 outlets so I just cut it down and connected it to the side of my box. 

I have two power lines coming in which will be hard wired direct to the RCDs with 5 metres of lead and male sockets to plug into a GPO.


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## MaltyHops

mxd said:


> Are you going to have *male sockets as well to provide power* or just chop an extension lead ?


Don't ever do this - don't know if you were asking to check if OP was going to do this
- using male sockets to provide power means two bare conductors are electrically live.


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## Camo6

Looks the goods Truman. Hope your keeping an inventory for lazy buggers like me to copy!

@Maltyhops I think MXD was meaning a male plug in the control box to receive a computer type power lead. Or thats how I read it.


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## Truman42

I actually read it as having male 240 volt sockets like on a caravan to plug an extension lead into and back to my GPO.

Would work well but I don't have room for them anyway so hard wiring leads on instead.

@Camo6. QldKev is the brains behind it all, I've copied his design with a few changes to suit my system. But yeh do have a bit of an inventory going..


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## mxd

that's what I meant



Truman said:


> I actually read it as having male 240 volt sockets like on a caravan to plug an extension lead into and back to my GPO.


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## MaltyHops

mxd said:


> that's what I meant
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I actually read it as having male 240 volt sockets like on a caravan to plug an extension lead into and back to my GPO.
Click to expand...

Ah, ok ... guess I was thinking "plug" when I read "male sockets" - didn't realised things like _caravan power inlet male sockets_ existed.


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## Edak

Looking great Truman! Truly a work of art. I have a few questions though. 

What is the power specification for your build? I am guessing based on the wiring and power board that you have 10A elements. 


I love the fact that you used a power board but are you going to use all of those sockets? 

Which PID controllers are you going to use? Will you have the programmable auberins ones?


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## QldKev

At least the lights work on mine :lol:





The top two knobs are different in this pic, but have since been swapped over.

It's been good fun bouncing ideas of each other for the build. Shouldn't be too long and both will be finished.

@Edak, remember that "pid amp" (that's not actually an amp) you designed for me, one is going into Trumans enclosure, and there's two in mine. 
I've got 10 power outlets hanging off mine h34r:. 3 x HLT, 3 x Heat Exchanger (although I'll only be using 2 for now), 3 x Kettle, 1 x Pump

I'll let Truman answer the rest of the questions.


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## Truman42

Edak said:


> Looking great Truman! Truly a work of art. I have a few questions though.
> 
> What is the power specification for your build? I am guessing based on the wiring and power board that you have 10A elements.
> 
> 
> I love the fact that you used a power board but are you going to use all of those sockets?
> 
> Which PID controllers are you going to use? Will you have the programmable auberins ones?


Yes my elements are all 10 amp. HLT1 and HLT2 will come on first to heat up my mash water. Then I will switch HLT2 over to the herms element while leaving HLT1 on to continue heating my sparge water.

All sockets will be used
1.HLT1
2.HLT2
3.Herms
4.Kettle1
5.Kettle2-- (Will be plugging in an imersion element to get up to boil quicker but may swap this over to an installed kettle element into my urn at a later stage.)
6.Pump

My HLT PID is just a Sestos from ebay. But the mash PID is a ramp PID from Auberins. I just have to add a buzzer for the mash PID alarm.

Still waiting on the Pids and a few other bits and pieces to arrive but the way Kev keeps finding other shit on ebay to add on Im going to run out of room in the box before long.

@Kev..At least my switches all match..


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## QldKev

Truman said:


> <<snip >>
> @Kev..At least my switches all match..


Mine do too now


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## Truman42

Added some labels. Just waiting on the PIDS to arrive.


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## GalBrew

Looks great Truman. Where did you source your switches and lights from?


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## Truman42

GalBrew said:


> Looks great Truman. Where did you source your switches and lights from?


Kev gave me all the links from ebay.

12v lights for the PIDS

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/130858480259?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649&clk_rvr_id=487137687540

220v lights for the PID and pump switch

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/300553603094?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649#ht_951wt_1161

2 position cam switches

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/161010831018?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649&clk_rvr_id=487136094823

5 position cam switches

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/330833511449?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649&clk_rvr_id=487134695719


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## QldKev

A few wires are in. Waiting on Mr Posty for delivery of the last 8 sockets. Then I can clean up a lot of the wiring.


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## Online Brewing Supplies

QldKev said:


> A few wires are in. Waiting on Mr Posty for delivery of the last 8 sockets. Then I can clean up a lot of the wiring.


When do you plan on launching the first QLD satellite ? :lol:


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## Jono_w

What sort of load will those SSR's be switching? Power wiring looks pretty light?


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## jaypes

Jaysus thats awesome, when are you guys going to build a controller for a meth lab?


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## QldKev

Jonathon said:


> What sort of load will those SSR's be switching? Power wiring looks pretty light?


10amp max each. The Active and Neutrals are 1.5mm2 (ok for 15amp), and earths are 2.5mm2 (ok for 20amp). So plenty in reserve. I think it looks strange in the pic, but the box is half a meter tall to give you an idea of perspective. Those orange cables coming into the box are extra heavy duty 15amp cables, so about twice as thick as a cheap 10amp extension cord.

To give you an idea here's a pic with a normal extension cord


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## QldKev

Gryphon Brewing said:


> When do you plan on launching the first QLD satellite ? :lol:


It would never get off the ground, too heavy


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## QldKev

jaypes said:


> Jaysus thats awesome, when are you guys going to build a controller for a meth lab?


shhh!, I'm telling everyone it's just for brewing beer.


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## jaypes

hahaha!


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## Truman42

jaypes said:


> Jaysus thats awesome, when are you guys going to build a controller for a meth lab?


Who says we havent already.... Dont need all that just for brewing....


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## QldKev

If Truman and I both turn them on at the same time all the East coast lights dim :huh:


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## Camo6

Do you guys have a rough estimate of costs for this build? This will be one of my next projects and I'll probably have to start squirelling some funds from the watchful eyes of _THE OVERLORD!_

I saw some nice stainless cabinets at the local bargain centre the other day that would make a perfect housing. This threads providing some good motivation. I may be shooting you guys a PM in the near future. Cheers.


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## Jono_w

QldKev said:


> 10amp max each. The Active and Neutrals are 1.5mm2 (ok for 15amp), and earths are 2.5mm2 (ok for 20amp). So plenty in reserve. I think it looks strange in the pic, but the box is half a meter tall to give you an idea of perspective. Those orange cables coming into the box are extra heavy duty 15amp cables, so about twice as thick as a cheap 10amp extension cord.
> 
> To give you an idea here's a pic with a normal extension cord


Cool makes more sense now you have multiple feeds too.


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## QldKev

Jonathon said:


> Cool makes more sense now you have multiple feeds too.


Probably should have mentioned that, 4 x 10amp lines in. Each being routed so they can only see a max of 1 element each at a time. Also that white extension cord was only there for a test, all will be fed using the heavy duty cables.


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## QldKev

Camo6 said:


> Do you guys have a rough estimate of costs for this build? This will be one of my next projects and I'll probably have to start squirelling some funds from the watchful eyes of _THE OVERLORD!_
> 
> I saw some nice stainless cabinets at the local bargain centre the other day that would make a perfect housing. This threads providing some good motivation. I may be shooting you guys a PM in the near future. Cheers.


What ever you think it will cost, add an extra digit :lol:


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## QldKev

If I had to buy everything retail it would have been a bit over $1100. This includes about 120 in tools. A mate helped out with parts and some were from my old controller. Also I have rcds that could be excluded to save money. I could have left out the pid for the kettle as its not really needed to. I just wanted to include them now. 

Depending on how many elements you have you could possibly need a lot less gear.


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## Online Brewing Supplies

Yep, no need for a PID in the Kettle and the HLT, neither are crucial.
Nev


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## QldKev

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Yep, no need for a PID in the Kettle and the HLT, neither are crucial.
> Nev


That's it, I just want them all the same shape for bling factor  
STC for HLT and nothing on the kettle is a lot cheaper.


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## Camo6

QldKev said:


> That's it, I just want them all the same shape for bling factor


Please explain? For what other reason would I want PIDs for? 

Currently using an stc for hlt and herms and find the herms temp never varies by more than .6 C. But my current control setup is two power boards running two stc's, two elements and two pumps so is a bit messy with extension leads everywhere. If I'm going to build a controller I might as well go the full hog with PIDs for HLT and HERMS and the room to expand if I move to an electric kettle or add another HLT element.

$1100? Looks like I better start holding onto my nuts for next winter. And this time I won't be storing them in my wife's purse......sorry dear? Just a wrong number dear....yes dear...coming dear...


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## Truman42

I have allowed for an extra element in my HLT and an extra element in my kettle even though I don't have either just yet. I've used a pid for my HLT just so I have everything together in my brew controller. Mine didn't cost nowhere near as much as Kevs but I don't have as many pids, ssr's wiring etc. Also I scored a lot of the wiring, sockets, the rcds and some other bits and pieces from work.

At a guess with two pids mine was only around $300 all up.


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## tanukibrewer

What size brews will you be doing with these controllers,40L,60L,80L or is the sky the limit??


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## QldKev

On mine I run anywhere from a 69l to a 112l batch (beer into cubes). My system has been in use for quite a while, this is just giving me a nice control panel for it.


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## seamad

With the auber pids you can run 5X SSR per pid, so yes pretty well any size system. I have 3 X 10A elements running off my boil pid that i can set at any output % i want to control the boil.


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## QldKev

seamad said:


> With the auber pids you can run 5X SSR per pid, so yes pretty well any size system. I have 3 X 10A elements running off my boil pid that i can set at any output % i want to control the boil.


Between the lights and ssr load in our enclosures we exceeded the potential of the pid output.(30ma)
With the help of edak and a little bit of electronics you can run as many as you want.


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## seamad

should snap up that dirty big pot for sale then, how many over the side elements to get 400l boiling ?


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## QldKev

seamad said:


> should snap up that dirty big pot for sale then, how many over the side elements to get 400l boiling ?


Now that would be a serious kettle


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## pedleyr

Great looking build.

What are the 5 position switches for? I'd have thought they'd all just be off/on? Or perhaps off/PID/override?


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## Grainer

pedleyr said:


> Great looking build.
> 
> What are the 5 position switches for? I'd have thought they'd all just be off/on? Or perhaps off/PID/override?


look at photo on page 1


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## Truman42

pedleyr said:


> Great looking build.
> 
> What are the 5 position switches for? I'd have thought they'd all just be off/on? Or perhaps off/PID/override?


The switch positions are
Switch 1.
0-Off
1. HLT1
2.Kettle1
3. Off (Spare)
4.Off(spare)

Switch 2.
1. HLT2
2. Herms
3. Kettle2
4.Off

So you can switch down to turn of at EOB. But possibly use Position 3 or 4 for soemthing else if we decide to add later on. 4 on switch 2 could be a whirlpool pump if I decide to get one at a later stage.
The mian PID switch only powers the PIDS but the 5 position switches are used to switch power to each element as needed.


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## pedleyr

Got it, I had the order of the switches in the circuit set up differently in my head but I like your way of doing it. 

Cheers


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## MastersBrewery

Truman, really looking great, I've been watching with interest. Thought I would share my thoughts on Switch one as it maybe useful to you or some one else.
Iwould have wired :
0-off
1- HTL1
2- off spare
3- kettle1
4- off spare

this just allows for panic situations, turn the switch once in either direction kills the circuit, no thinking required.


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## Truman42

MastersBrewery said:


> Truman, really looking great, I've been watching with interest. Thought I would share my thoughts on Switch one as it maybe useful to you or some one else.
> Iwould have wired :
> 0-off
> 1- HTL1
> 2- off spare
> 3- kettle1
> 4- off spare
> 
> this just allows for panic situations, turn the switch once in either direction kills the circuit, no thinking required.


Thats a great idea, dont know why Kev didnt think of that...

Might be good to do it that way if your about to build one.


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## Truman42

Finally received my Auberins Pid and as I suspected it wouldnt quite fit in the box. I was going to cut a hole out in the back but instead used an O ring to space it forward slightly. I will put some duct tape on the back of the box where the rear of the Pid sits so its insulated in case a stray wire touches the box.

I added some ali brackets to mount it to my brewstand and now just have to connect up the power supply cables. (Then learn how to program the pids)





Here is where its home will be on my brew stand


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## Truman42

Here is a rear view showing the XLR connectors for the probe sockets.




And finally here it is running. The mash Pid isn't connected yet as I only just realised the probe Kev sent me has a male XLR connector and so are my sockets. So I have a female connector I will have to solder on.


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## QldKev

Looks good, but I think you may be mashing a bit too high h34r:


Got mine finished today






Should have switched the lights on for the pic. I prefer Truman's stickers to mine.


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## Edak

Both look awesome!


You have so many elements!

EDIT: Removed a stupid question from my post.


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## breakbeer

QldKev said:


> I prefer Truman's stickers to mine.


I can make you some stickers on my vinyl cutter if ya like?


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## Logman

So when do we start the 'I want Truman and Kev's Controller' thread?


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## Crusty

Logman said:


> So when do we start the 'I want Truman and Kev's Controller' thread?


Now's as good a time as any.
Looks the goods fellas.............. :beerbang:


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## Blackened

Can I make a minor suggestion? A big red Emergency stop button that's easy to hit, that cut's power to everything.

When things go wrong (god forbid) and there's reason to panic, it can be surprisingly hard to think logically, often people resort to grabbing a cable and ripping the plug out of the wall etc.... but a big red button that begs "Hit me". You don't need to think about it, just whack it.

Just in case there's a fluid leak onto a live connection, hose comes of the pump and sprays hot liquor etc.. Dog runs in and gets tangled in something. Giant flaming meteorites kill dozens every day!! Well..... maybe not.

Just a thought


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## Truman42

Blackened said:


> Can I make a minor suggestion? A big red Emergency stop button that's easy to hit, that cut's power to everything.
> 
> When things go wrong (god forbid) and there's reason to panic, it can be surprisingly hard to think logically, often people resort to grabbing a cable and ripping the plug out of the wall etc.... but a big red button that begs "Hit me". You don't need to think about it, just whack it.
> 
> Just in case there's a fluid leak onto a live connection, hose comes of the pump and sprays hot liquor etc.. Dog runs in and gets tangled in something. Giant flaming meteorites kill dozens every day!! Well..... maybe not.
> 
> Just a thought


I thought about adding one but I don't have the room on my box to mount it anywhere other than the back which would be out of the way in an emergency anyway. Even though there looks like room at the bottom it's where the SSRs and heat sinks are.

I do have rcds mounted in there which will trip out if liquid is spilt on the box. If I can find one small enough that will fit on the front I may add it in.


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## Fat Bastard

Truman, where in Bunnings did you find the box? I've looked, but can't find anything similar. Mind you, I've not asked the staff, I'm not that desperate!


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## MastersBrewery

Logman said:


> So when do we start the 'I want Truman and Kev's Controller' thread?


stop stealing my thread titles! :huh:


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## Truman42

Fat Bastard said:


> Truman, where in Bunnings did you find the box? I've looked, but can't find anything similar. Mind you, I've not asked the staff, I'm not that desperate!


In the bathroom and shower section where they have bathroom vanity cupboards etc. they have a couple of different sized first aid cabinets.


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## Camo6

Do you have the dimensions for the box Truman? I've seen a couple off SS cabinets that looked blingy but wanna know that a PID or heatsink will fit.
Apologies if it's already posted.


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## Edak

I can't recommend Rittal Enclosures enough. I have had many positive experiences creating RTU and electrical boxes using them. I generally used the rolled steel single door units:
http://www.rittal.com/products/katalog_frame.asp?ViewAt=1-27-64-217-131&Dom=com&lang=GB

If you can ever pick one up on eBay for cheap then you are laughing, 


here's one that's $99 or best offer
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RITTAL-AE-1380-500-Enclosure-380Hx380Wx210D-/161050410991?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item257f5a3fef&_uhb=1

The distributor is over in tullamarine, you could do a bulk buy and get them really cheap if you wanted. 

EDIT: NO AFFIL!


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## QldKev

That's a nice solid cabinet, which for $130 (posted) is a decent price for it. 

The Bunnings first aid cabinets are lighter duty (you may need to set a location on the Bunnings crappy site for the links to work)
$39 for 310 x 360 x 100mm
http://www.bunnings.com.au/products_product_sandleford-310-x-360-x-100mm-first-aid-box_P6100189.aspx?search=first+aid+cabinet&searchType=any&searchSubType=products

$59 for 310 x 450 x 150mm
http://www.bunnings.com.au/products_product_sandleford-310-x-450-x-150mm-first-aid-box_P6101363.aspx?search=first+aid+cabinet&searchType=any&searchSubType=products

Otherwise someone posted this one on ebay $53 (posted), 300 x 300 x 120mm
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FIRST-AID-MEDICAL-CABINET-KIT-BOX-STEEL-LOCK-AND-KEY-SOLID-POWDER-COATED-/300920471240?pt=AU_Medical_Special_Needs&hash=item461041fec8


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## Camo6

Thanks fellas, will have to pop down to the bargain centre and check out the dimensions and price on the cabinets I saw.


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## Fat Bastard

Truman said:


> In the bathroom and shower section where they have bathroom vanity cupboards etc. they have a couple of different sized first aid cabinets.


Cheers mate. Couldn't see them last time I was there, now that it's going to be to wet to brew tomorrow, I might go back for another squizz.


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## Edak

The beauty of the Rittal cabinets is that they come with a nice solid steel (and removable) mounting plate so you can get your DIN rails in, and perform much of your wiring without having the walls in the way.


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## Truman42

Camo6 said:


> Thanks fellas, will have to pop down to the bargain centre and check out the dimensions and price on the cabinets I saw.


I only just managed to fit everything in mine so probably should have gone with the larger size that Kev brought.


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## WarmBeer

Truman said:


> I only just managed to fit everything in mine so probably should have gone with the larger size that Kev brought.


Dude, you have so gotta bring that along to the next BBC meeting.


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## Truman42

WarmBeer said:


> Dude, you have so gotta bring that along to the next BBC meeting.


Ok will do.


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## QldKev

Got my first run of the new control panel today








I'll be building an arm of the main frame to mount the control panel vertically later.


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## Truman42

Looks the shit Kev. Damn it, I really thought I was going to beat you to first brew..lol


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## pedleyr

And I was here thinking I was top shit for wiring up my STC1000 today! 

Definitely something for many of the rest of us to aspire to, really impressive (said as I look at strike water heating on my stove top for a 10 litre batch). 

I know you've got an existing electric set up, so you've no doubt worked in your refinements here, but after 1 brew is there anything you want to do differently? I've decided to go electric once I get back from my holiday in September so I'm really interested in anything anyone who has experience in it has to say.


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## QldKev

After the one brew all is good. My experience brewing with different setups before setting this one up is I started with BIAB using LPG burners for about 150 brews, then moved to 3V. My initial 3V had a stc controlling the HLT, stc controlling the RIMS, and kettle using NASA burners. Then I added in a HERMS also run from a stc to boost the ramp speeds, more litres means more watts needed. Then I swapped the HERMS over to us a pid. I also changed the kettle from LPG to elec to make it cooler and quieter in my carport when brewing which is great. Although the LPG was a lot quicker then my current 6,000w at getting the kettle to the boil, I don't have plans of going back to the LPG burners. I did look at more automation using an ardiuno setup, but decided I don't want too much automation as I enjoy my brew time. The control panel as it stands is not the final version, I will be adding alarms to let me know when the mash is nearing completion, and also when the kettle is nearing the boil. I've already got the alarms but wanted to get a few brews under my belt to work out how I want them setup.

Remember, my perfect controller may not be exactly what you want. I'm happy to discuss what I have done in detail, but ultimately how well it suits you is your choice.

edit: You have to love that kettle temperature. That's today in my carport, before any wort got to it. Just with the roller door down and the heat warming it up from the HLT and Mash tun, but with a reasonable distance between them. The HLT is the 140L pot on the right with dark blue insulation.


Cheers

QldKev


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## pedleyr

I understand completely what you mean when you say what is right for you isn't necessarily right for me, and I understand why you are careful to say that - many people might think it is a cookie cutter type deal where they can just copy and be set. I'm still in the planning stages, and to work out and implement a system that is right for me, I simply want to know everything I can about every system I come across that I am impressed with. I don't want to derail Truman's thread, but I've already decided that as a general proposition what is right for me _right now _is just a 3.6kw element put into my keggle and continuing to BIAB. Or maybe a 4kw - I'm not 100%, I have the capacity on the circuit I'll use for either (I actually have a 20 amp and a 30 amp circuit in my garage - I very strongly suspect that the former owner had an "alternative income stream" generated from the garage, because the power line *prior to the meter* has also been cut and patched, but that's another story) so will probably go for the 4kw for now. Can always add the 3.6kw in addition later.

I won't be getting a PID at first, I'll just do it manually ghetto style until I completely get my processes down, and also before I make that additional investment (both time and money, as you would clearly be well aware). The "end game", if that mythical beast does in fact exist, is a recirculating BIAB not dissimilar to your previous rig, in a ~100 litre SS pot, using the same Auber PID you use here, with either a pair of 3kw elements or just one 6kw.

I really appreciate the offer to discuss your set up in detail, and I do intend to take you up on it.

Happy brewing.

Edit: re: your edit. Am I seeing that correctly - the BK is almost 30 degrees degrees solely due to ambient heat +radiant heat from the HLT + MLT? What is the ambient?


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## Truman42

Hey Kev I just noticed your fan has blue LEDs?

How come that wasn't on the parts list???


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## QldKev

Weatherzone said 23c for back in town, here we have been averaging about 2c warmer than town, so at a guess 25c. I just checked and it's currently 22c in my carport, and 22.2c in my office at 9.25pm, so still not too bad. One day we will get a heater to keep nice and warm.

My 1V setup is closer to your one. I run a 1V BIAB, that has a false bottom and heating element under it. Works a treat. In this system I'm using a 50L pot pushing out 25L batches on just a 2,000w element. Start a thread on your plans, so we all can get in and give you ideas.


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## QldKev

Truman said:


> Hey Kev I just noticed your fan has blue LEDs?
> 
> How come that wasn't on the parts list???


It was a fan I had handy and it had to match, but what will happens when I get the red alarm lights hooked up, it may color clash :blink:

I was thinking of getting some of those neon under car lights the rice boys use and putting them inside, so when you open the door it's totally bling


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## pedleyr

QldKev said:


> One day we will get a heater to keep nice and warm.


4 degrees here currently. So, no comment 



> Start a thread on your plans, so we all can get in and give you ideas.


I do intend to, but I've been reluctant, mainly because I'm not self centred enough to think anyone is really all that interested! But your suggestion has tipped me over, I'll do it tomorrow once I've cubed this brew.

Cheers


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## QldKev

To make you feel warmer





In case I don't see the topic and respond, as I don't get many emails from this site anymore, feel free to pm me and wake me up



Best thing of all, I beat Truman to get a brew on our new controllers B)


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## Truman42

pedleyr said:


> I do intend to, but I've been reluctant, mainly because I'm not self centred enough to think anyone is really all that interested! But your suggestion has tipped me over, I'll do it tomorrow once I've cubed this brew.
> 
> Cheers


Of course were interested mate. That's what this sub forum is for. The sharing of projects and ideas. Your posts may help someone else do the same thing. So post away.


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## Batz

QldKev said:


> Got my first run of the new control panel today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be building an arm of the main frame to mount the control panel vertically later.


That looks fantastic Kev, no wonder I have a stint at your local power station since you fired it up. :lol:

What about a flat screen TV bracket to mount it to? It would allow a bit of movement.

Batz


----------



## QldKev

Batz said:


> That looks fantastic Kev, no wonder I have a stint at your local power station since you fired it up. :lol:
> 
> What about a flat screen TV bracket to mount it to? It would allow a bit of movement.
> 
> Batz



I thought about that, but Gregs has an idea of a long arm so the control panel can fold around the front of the rig out of the way for when not in use.

I'm even thinking of the round pole in a round pole trick, and if I mounted it to the side I could just swivel inwards over the top of the mash tun when finished.










I could use the tv bracket to mount a lcd to the brew stand for real bling


----------



## seamad

Have either of you wired up your alarms yet ?
Looking at the auber instructions I can't see that you can turn off an alarm by just pushing a button on the pid. Was planning on having an alarm for reaching : strike temp, mashout and start of boil by setting the high temp alarm.
I noticed in the lectric brewery they have a switch for the alarm. Don't really want to go down that route.
Am i missing something obvious

cheers


----------



## QldKev

I haven't gotten around to wiring them up yet. But yes you will need to either include a switch to mute it, or using the Auber jump manually to the next step, which is setup to turn off the alarm.


----------



## Truman42

I've wired mine up. (Kevs just a slack arse, about time I beat him at something  )





For the Auber pid Ive got it programmed so I can jump to the next step to kill the alarm like Kev said. But with my sestos I will have to put a switch in to shut it down.


----------



## seamad

Thanks fellas, will probably have a switch then as that sounds easier.


----------



## Edak

Kev did you try the schematic that I gave to you yet? Was it too complex?


----------



## QldKev

Edak said:


> Kev did you try the schematic that I gave to you yet? Was it too complex?


No problems following it, I've just put the alarm on hold for now as I've got a couple of other projects happening. I also want to get a couple of brews under my belt with the controller to ensure how I want them setup, but I only brew on the big boy once a month. Hopefully in about a month or so I should have a play with the alarm.


----------



## QldKev

Getting ready for the second brew on my 3V using my new control panel this weekend. Today I got a chance to replace my crappy label maker stickers with a set breakbeer has made me.


Old stickers






New Stickers







Stickers on the sides






I think it looks a lot more professional with the newer stickers, thanks breakbeer! 

No affiliation with breakbeer, just very happy with my stickers. When I received my package I even got a bonus of a couple different "QldKev Brewing" stickers with different fonts to choose from.


QldKev


----------



## MastersBrewery

Most certainly looks the part Kev you and Truman have done an awesome job documenting these builds. great Job!


----------



## lael

That looks sweet!


----------



## jonnir

I'm copying yo'll build! Probably not as far as the pid's just yet but gonna use the enclosure and maybe fit some later on down the track


----------



## marksy

These are just awesome. Great work guys. What a great project to do.

How are they working now after a few brews with them? Anything you would change?



Cheers.


----------



## QldKev

marksy said:


> These are just awesome. Great work guys. What a great project to do.
> 
> How are they working now after a few brews with them? Anything you would change?
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers.



Mine is still going great guns.
I would prefer something easier than the Auber programmable pid to setup, But the day to day usage I'm getting use too.
I don't think much of the hammer tone paint from Bunnings, it chips easily and smudges when cleaning it.
I've also started adding the alarms I mentioned prior. I've also added a mute switch for them.
I really love being able to switch between elements as needed.


The HLT will let me know when the strike water is ready.
The mash will let me know when mashout has been reached and also when the 5min batch sparge is completed.
The Kettle will let me know at 98c to pre-warn me about boil overs.







I'm still waiting on evil bay for the bottom switch and alarm. I was originally going to leave the HLT out, but thought it would look neater with all of them.


----------



## Truman42

Like Kev Im happy with mine but I added alarms and haven't added the switch to kill them yet so its a PITA.

But other than that its great to brew with.


----------



## huhjhcjh

nice project, if I want to build a same one, any tips which can save me a lot of time


----------



## QldKev

huhjhcjh said:


> nice project, if I want to build a same one, any tips which can save me a lot of time


Get someone else to do it for you :lol:






Just plan it all out. If you order the parts correctly and hit it hard most the wiring can be done in a good day.


----------



## Crouch

This was a cool read. 

I'm getting back into brewing after a few years of swigging down store bought swill, but this time I want to make the jump to all-grain. Reading interesting projects like this is certainly helping me decide how I want to brew and with what kind of setup ... I have been thinking gas, but in the last few days have been seeing great stuff (like this) about all electric setups. 

Thanks for the inspiration guys!


----------



## mxd

QldKev said:


> Get someone else to do it for you :lol:


very generous of you mate, PM me you address and I post my stuff up


----------



## macca05

Hey qldkev or truman or anyone else actually,
I finally got my alarms in the post today and want to wire them up. Can anyone clarify this for me please.
Join 1 and 14 neutral
1 to switch, switch to one side of alarm. Other side of alarm to neutral bus
13 to live
And thats it. 
Im hoping this way one alarm will be good for both al1 and al2

I think this is figure 8 on the manual. Im just unsure of what side the switch should go. Im sure thats right though.

Cheers
Macca

Edit: and they are 240v alarms right. I did buy 12v and 240v just incase


----------



## Screwtop

I would like some info on this too Kev and Truman. What do the alarms indicate and would you mind posting a link to the parts?

Cheers,

Screwy


----------



## QldKev

Screwtop said:


> I would like some info on this too Kev and Truman. What do the alarms indicate and would you mind posting a link to the parts?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Screwy



HLT
I use it to let me know when I hit strike temp. So that way if I have wondered off and gotten sidetracked it lets me know it's ready.

MASH - using auber programmable pid
It lets me know when the main mash run is completed (mash out), so I can go and transfer my wort to the kettle
It lets me know when the sparge run is completed, so I can go and transfer my wort to the kettle
Also if the temperature should vary by more than 2c from the set point it will alarm.
With the auber I have 55,62,72 and 77c steps programmed in, with a 1c per 1min ramp rate. If during the ramp if it should lag by more 2c then it will alarm*.
* This is more an issue on my 112L batches, as the HLT needs me to run a second element to get the 70L of sparge water from tap to 77c within the mash time. I run both a RIMS and HERMS for the mash, but both are only needed during the ramping. So once the 62c temperature is stable, I switch the power from the RIMS back to the 2nd HLT element. If I've forgotten about it and it starts to ramp to 72c, it won't keep up and the alarm lets me know to go and switch the power back to the RIMS. 

KETTLE
I use it to let me know just before I hit the boil, so I can go and watch it boil over onto my floor.




Alarm
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/110943667649?

Mute Switch
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1-N-O-NO-1-N-C-NC-2-Position-Rotary-Select-Selector-Switch-Latching-22mm-7-8-/360545067944


----------



## Screwtop

Thanks Kev, would like to know when each step has completed, will need to check the Auber PID programming info to see if this is possible.

Screwy


----------



## Screwtop

Finally, began the Ver.5 build of my brewery control box today. Most of the front panel complete, only a switch and alarm to mount when they arrive. Now to install the cooling fan, DIN rails, circuit breakers, timer, SSR's and heat sinks then wire it all up.


Screwy


----------



## Crusty

Looking good Screwy.


----------



## Truman42

Looking good Screwy. I know some haven't bothered with fans but I can definitely feel warm air coming out of my vent hole from the fan when it's running so I'm glad I went with a fan. 

There is a way you can have your alarm ring when you reach each step as that's the way mine was originally set up. The alarm will sound when the pid moves to the next step because your still below the set temp as you ramp. Not really designed to be an indicator that your step has finished and from what I can see in the pid there is no way to do this.

I think you have to set your low alarm to 1C and set your ramp time to 1 minute. I changed mine because it was annoying hearing the alarm ring every time.

Kev care to help out???

The only thing I don't like about my setup is that at the end of mash when I start to transfer the pid wants to keep the pid at 77C. Because there is no wort flow and therefore the probe cannot measure the temp of the wort, the Herms vessel ends up boiling unless I remember to switch the element off. But then I've often forgot to turn it back on again when I've sparged.

I recently set my last step to 15C at end of mash and end of sparge so the Herms would stay off. So its like this..

C7= 77 T7= -38 ( Set alarm 2 and go to step 8.)

C8 =15 T8 = 1. It's supposed to hold the alarm then go to a pause step after one minute but it sits waiting for the temp to get down to 15C before it will start the 1 minute count.

So I might have to remove the pause step and just manually advance to the next step once I've transferred.

Option 2 is to use a flow control switch which will cut power to the Herms element if the flow stops. This would work well for a stuck mash which is another time I ended up boiling the water in the Herms.


----------



## Screwtop

Thanks Truman,

Did some more work on the control box this morning, installed the DIN rails, Breakers, Heat Sinks and SSR's and welded the mounting post to the brew rig. The control box will swing inside the footprint of the brewrig for storage.

Pretty much given up on the idea of step alarms, was going to use a 555 timer circuit to limit the alarm time. Too much stuffing around, and probably over complicating the build.

I pump sparge water via the HEX with the controller still set at 76°C from the mash out rest. Once all of the sparge water has been pumped in the same thing happens, no water to sense and the HEX boils. Going to use an el cheapo DIN mount temp control with the sensor in the HEX so that current to the element is cut if the water rises above 95C.

Also going to use a DIN mount timer instead of having it panel mounted as with the previous control box.

Cheers,

Screwy


----------



## Screwtop

Continued today until the 39° heat got too much for me in the shed/brewery. Mounted the DIN rails, breakers, heat sinks, SSR's, panel mount connectors for the RTD sensors, cooling fan and power in cable.


----------



## Fat Bastard

Some really nice work in this thread. I've been following it for a while, looking for a bunnings box to fit all the gubbins in, when I found this in a scrap bin at work:






It already had a few holes in it, but with a bit of judicious punching, everything looks kind of ok, if a little off centre. Probably 75% of the controls and switchgear have come from another redundant machine that no-one wanted to buy, so the sparks salvaged anything useable and donated it to the project, and management have sanctioned the apprentice to wire it all up for me (on condition I host a brew day/piss up)

I can't claim it as a true DIY jobbie as I'm a Fitter/Machinist/Toolmaker/Mech Eng by vocation and keep calling the wires "pipes", but I reckon it looks the biz. 3 sets of controls to run the recirculating HLT/pump the sparge water, the HX/MLT and kettle. Having a PID on the kettle is a little excessive, but if you've got it, you may as well use it, especially if it's only going to get chucked anyway!

All I need is some little engraved plates to show what everything is. Does anyone know where i can get some made for cheap?


----------



## real_beer

Fat Bastard said:


> All I need is some little engraved plates to show what everything is. Does anyone know where i can get some made for cheap?


You could try contacting Superoo, he might be able to come up with something for you.

Here's some of his work:
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/67944-braudino-facia-panels/#entry959304
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/67915-keg-tags/#entry958982
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/67945-tap-labels-large-and-small/#entry959319


----------



## MastersBrewery

FB,
name change required...... Lucky Batstard!!!!! nice find mate, I'm sure a bit more detail on the setup is required. ^_^


Ed: bloody typing!


----------



## Superoo

Hey mate, go to my website, hope I can help.

If you just want stick on labels, use the BYO Laserlite item.
If you want 1.5mm thick plastic plates, use the BYO Small Signs item

www.eatonlaser.com.au

There area some instructions there for ordering custom control panels if you wanted a complete panel made.

Prices reduce by quantity, you can check them in the shopping cart before you commit to a purchase.

Cheers,
Chris


----------



## Fat Bastard

Cheers Chris! Will check it out. 
I'll post more details of the build later. Was supposed to be mocking up the stand and vessels today, but it was too damn hot & I was too damn lazy!


----------



## law-of-ohms

Truman said:


> You can buy the sockets from Lawrence and Hanson for about $15 each.
> 
> But I found a powder coated metal power board at work that had about 10 outlets so I just cut it down and connected it to the side of my box.
> 
> I have two power lines coming in which will be hard wired direct to the RCDs with 5 metres of lead and male sockets to plug into a GPO.



$15? wow, I'll sell them off cheap for like $4ea, but out minimum order value @ work is $50.


----------



## Screwtop

Done, a few programming issues to tidy up. V5 build and install complete.


----------



## Yob

very tidy indeed..

details on that kettle? Nice kit Screwy :beerbang:


----------



## Screwtop

Yob said:


> very tidy indeed..
> 
> details on that kettle? Nice kit Screwy :beerbang:


Cheers Yobbie!

82L stainless, originally fabricated for another brewer who upgraded and NASA Burner. Thinish bottom results in slightly darker colour than predicted.

Screwy


----------



## Yob

yeah, thought it looked a bit custom, I like it's slenderness :super:

nuffin wrong with a bit of colour mate h34r:


----------



## Screwtop

The new PID controlled brewery made life easy today. Mowed the lawn and did some gardening while the system made 50L of IPA. So easy just turn up after mash out!!! 

Thanks to QldKev for helping me get my head around programming the SYL-2352P.


----------



## Ditchnbeer

A question: why go for metal enclosures? Surely plastic is easier to work with?


----------



## Screwtop

Ditchnbeer said:


> A question: why go for metal enclosures? Surely plastic is easier to work with?


Previous control box was plastic. Like the strength and that the door is hinged and can be opened using a key.

Screwy


----------



## gava

Just got my control enclosure in the mail and will start my control box build this year.. 

Everyone's is looking good! I noticed not many are using Relay's on the selector switches, anyone nerves about frying their elements?

Very jealous you guy have yours up and running already, although I can't wait to start.

Cheers

Gavin
www.BrewRig.com.au


----------



## Fat Bastard

Bloody!







Spent some time today running the cables for the elements on the brew rig. Annoying fiddly stuff. I need to take it back to work so the guys can finish the internals off, hope to have it up and running mid Feb.

Controllers are Omron E5GN's. Relays are Omron too. The switchgear is a mish mash of stuff, but mostly Sprecher & Schuh. The bloody manual for the controllers is 75 pages long. Everything else is industrial grade stuff and to me looks like an orgy of octopi.

Looks like everyone's box is coming along nicely!


----------



## Ditchnbeer

Mine is coming along real good:



To qualify - I am an electrician and sorting out wiring n components before installing into a proper panel


----------



## Edak

Ditchnbeer said:


> Mine is coming along real good:
> 
> 
> 
> To qualify - I am an electrician and sorting out wiring n components before installing into a proper panel


Best looking box I have seen! Well done and without a metal enclosure you won't even need to earth it...


----------



## Screwtop

Close to Done..................... is any brewing project ever done???




Alarms and isolating switches added.

Screwy


----------



## booargy

Ditchnbeer said:


> Mine is coming along real good:
> 
> 
> 
> To qualify - I am an electrician and sorting out wiring n components before installing into a proper panel


bandido?


----------



## QldKev

booargy said:


> bandido?



I didn't see the rocket :lol:


----------



## QldKev

Screwtop said:


> Close to Done..................... is any brewing project ever done???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMAG1083.jpg
> 
> Alarms and isolating switches added.
> 
> Screwy



Looking great, have you fired it up for a test yet?, when is the maiden run?


----------



## Screwtop

QldKev said:


> Looking great, have you fired it up for a test yet?, when is the maiden run?


Done Kev, 

Went so well I mowed the lawn and did some gardening while it was doing it's thing. Still a few changes required to programming but happy. Thanks for the help!

Screwy


----------



## mattlea266

Putting my own box together now. Just wondering if there is a reason nobody uses illuminated switches such as http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=illuminated+selector+switch&_sop=15. (Sorry, dont know how to name the link). It seems if you had one of these you would only have to drill one hole and save a bit of wiring. Is it just aesthetics or is there a practical reason. Just curious
Thanks
Matt


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

They like drilling holes , as is the fashion of the day.
Nev


----------



## Edak

Gryphon Brewing said:


> They like drilling holes , as is the fashion of the day.
> Nev


 like an onion on your belt!


----------



## Cocko

Was the style at the time..


----------



## Camo6

One those big yellow ones...


----------



## gava

mattyl said:


> Putting my own box together now. Just wondering if there is a reason nobody uses illuminated switches such as http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=illuminated+selector+switch&_sop=15. (Sorry, dont know how to name the link). It seems if you had one of these you would only have to drill one hole and save a bit of wiring. Is it just aesthetics or is there a practical reason. Just curious
> Thanks
> Matt


With this selector switch with a light, the light will be on all the time, with the pilot light and switch you can allow it to turn on and off when the PID turns the element on and off..This way you can visually see when the element has power.. personally preference I guess.

-Gav


----------



## Edak

gava said:


> With this selector switch with a light, the light will be on all the time, with the pilot light and switch you can allow it to turn on and off when the PID turns the element on and off..This way you can visually see when the element has power.. personally preference I guess.
> 
> -Gav


While that's true to some respect, the terminals for the light are separate to those of the switch, thus you *could* wire it up the way you indicate.


----------



## gava

Edak said:


> While that's true to some respect, the terminals for the light are separate to those of the switch, thus you *could* wire it up the way you indicate.


Oh yup.... for some reason I thought it was activated via the power going through it.. so yes you could use this.. personally I'd have Pilot lights.. the only time I can see it not really being great is like my case I have a 3 position selector switch which activates the HLT or the BK element.. with the Pilot light I can see when the HLT or BK light flashes i know which one is activated... with the light in the switch you'd only see the light blinking on the switch.. not a deal breaker at all just the only difference I see.. I have a window through to my brew room so I often walk past to see whats going on..So from a far visuals is good for me..

-Gav


----------



## Camo6

gava said:


> Oh yup.... for some reason I thought it was activated via the power going through it.. so yes you could use this.. personally I'd have Pilot lights.. the only time I can see it not really being great is like my case I have a 3 position selector switch which activates the HLT or the BK element.. with the Pilot light I can see when the HLT or BK light flashes i know which one is activated... with the light in the switch you'd only see the light blinking on the switch.. not a deal breaker at all just the only difference I see.. I have a window through to my brew room so I often walk past to see whats going on..So from a far visuals is good for me..
> 
> -Gav


Now you're really showing off!


----------



## Fat Bastard

mattyl said:


> Putting my own box together now. Just wondering if there is a reason nobody uses illuminated switches such as http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=illuminated+selector+switch&_sop=15. (Sorry, dont know how to name the link). It seems if you had one of these you would only have to drill one hole and save a bit of wiring. Is it just aesthetics or is there a practical reason. Just curious.
> Thanks
> Matt


With mine, I wanted a double indicator of which element is on at any one time. I only have 10 amp outlets and two circuits, so I can have the HLT on whenever, but the HX or kettle can only be on separately. Well, that and the fact I couldn't find enough illuminated switches to do the job. The pumps are all started by illuminated push button switches though.


----------



## Edak

Hey FB, the more lights the better! Oh and Mr Balowski in the house!


----------



## Camo6

Finally got around to buying the SS enclosure, for my own build, from the local bargain center. I'd be planning to buy one for months now but wasn't too worried as he had 200 of them.
Then yesterday I mentioned them to MartinOC who was popping in there and he mentioned they only had one left. Rushed up this morning and grabbed the last one (thanks Martin!).
I'd expected to pay around $100 for it and the owner mentioned he'd sold them all online for up to $140. "For you, $50." he said. Score! Unfortunately he didn't have the right size mounting board for it and the one he gave me was a bit heavy for the job but it won't be too hard to knock one up.
I'd expected them to be pretty basic units but to my surprise found they had mounting points for the board, door earth peg and weatherseals. The thing weighs a tonne and is probably a bit big for what I had planned but it's SHINY. Not looking forward to cutting holes though.






Knowing that I saved $50 I had a bit of a wander around the yard and stumbled on this:



"For you, $20" Score!
Currently soaking it with PBW to remove all the old wine stains. Lots of scratches on the outside but the insides looked good.




Anyway, just needed to share my win as SWMBO just doesn't get it.


----------



## Edak

Awesome bargains!


----------



## Camo6

Can anyone recommend a suitable material for the mounting panel (correct terminology?) or a place to source them?

I though I had a decent sized piece of aluminum around but can't find it. Was thinking a thin piece of steel sheet? Part of a PC housing perhaps?


----------



## Ditchnbeer

I have finally upgraded my brewery controller and no longer brewing in the potato chip box!
I pump the mash up thru my HERMS coil which is installed in my HLT, the PID controls the element heating water in the HLT and I monitor the temp at the outflow of the coil going back into the mash tun. So I didn't want anything complex, and left enough room for future addons if needed. Main points of design are:

- wanted a non-metallic box so found a fibreglass box from tiboxaustralia (in Adelaide) on ebay. Easy to make cutouts for mounting components.
- temperature sensor cable, element cable and pump cable can all be unplugged from enclosure for cleaning etc
- one 10A circuit breaker for supply to element and another breaker for all other electrical components
- rotary switch controls pump and light for visual indication of ON status
- 2400W element heats approx. 18 litres of water in my HLT for sparging, so uses a normal 10A power point

Got a new man cave now so cant wait to get in there n brew with the new setup!


----------



## Ditchnbeer

Just got to add a cooling fan to top of box to move air thru unit over SSR (there is already an air filter installed at the bottom) and all finished.


----------



## coopsomulous

I have just started planning my control box here. All my PID's, SSR and RTD's have been ordered and Im now looking into cases. I dont have a single brew place at my house (the wife wont let me have one of the spare rooms ) and typically brew out the back and store all my gear in the shed. Because of this, I want my control case to be portable and be able to cover the electronics when in storage.

I have been thinking of using a pelican case with a panel on the inside. Bascally all the instruments and plugs would be on the inside for protection. To use, you would open the lid, plug everything in and off you go. This probably isnt the cheapest option, but we use pelican cases at work to carry instruments and such around and they are really good cases for protecting electrical gear.

Anyhow, has anyone here used a pelican case for their control case?


----------



## Ratsathome

Sorry to hi jack the thread but here is a pic of mine.
Still in the process of cladding the boiler and HLT. The mash tun was finished a while back.
Was using gas but worked out to expencive.
Changed to electric.


----------



## mattlea266

> I have finally upgraded my brewery controller and no longer brewing in the potato chip box!
> I pump the mash up thru my HERMS coil which is installed in my HLT, the PID controls the element heating water in the HLT and I monitor the temp at the outflow of the coil going back into the mash tun. So I didn't want anything complex, and left enough room for future addons if needed. Main points of design are:
> 
> - wanted a non-metallic box so found a fibreglass box from tiboxaustralia (in Adelaide) on ebay. Easy to make cutouts for mounting components.
> - temperature sensor cable, element cable and pump cable can all be unplugged from enclosure for cleaning etc
> - one 10A circuit breaker for supply to element and another breaker for all other electrical components
> - rotary switch controls pump and light for visual indication of ON status
> - 2400W element heats approx. 18 litres of water in my HLT for sparging, so uses a normal 10A power point
> 
> Got a new man cave now so cant wait to get in there n brew with the new setup!
> 
> 
> Attached Thumbnails


Hi all
Trying to find a cheaper option to the auber temp probe lines. I like the look of yours mate, any chance of a few more closeups and details on where to find them.
Its the last thing I need to add to my box. Not sure if my box is of a high enough standard for this thread. We will see how it finishs up.
Thanks
Matt


----------



## Rieewoldt

Ditchnbeer said:


> I have finally upgraded my brewery controller and no longer brewing in the potato chip box!
> I pump the mash up thru my HERMS coil which is installed in my HLT, the PID controls the element heating water in the HLT and I monitor the temp at the outflow of the coil going back into the mash tun. So I didn't want anything complex, and left enough room for future addons if needed. Main points of design are:
> 
> - wanted a non-metallic box so found a fibreglass box from tiboxaustralia (in Adelaide) on ebay. Easy to make cutouts for mounting components.
> - temperature sensor cable, element cable and pump cable can all be unplugged from enclosure for cleaning etc
> - one 10A circuit breaker for supply to element and another breaker for all other electrical components
> - rotary switch controls pump and light for visual indication of ON status
> - 2400W element heats approx. 18 litres of water in my HLT for sparging, so uses a normal 10A power point
> 
> Got a new man cave now so cant wait to get in there n brew with the new setup!


Mine will be a very similar build mate. What size hlt and how are your heating times with 2400W?


----------



## Camo6

Managed to get a bit of work done on my controller today. Mounted the SSR's and heatsinks. Painted the mounting panel and added some DIN rails. Marked out the fascia and even managed to cut out the PID holes.
I also managed to dig a broken drill bit into it and had a burr bit go AWOL. Serves myself right for doing this the day after a big wedding (thankfully the beer was Henninger not VB!). Anyone got any tips for polishing scratches out of brushed stainless? I think it's either live with it or polish it to a mirror shine.
Now waiting on a decent hole saw for the LED's and switches, as well as some terminal strips from China. Sorry for the crappy pics:


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## Camo6

I thought I'd post this here to save starting another thread on controllers and Truman's helped me with some good advice for my own build.

I've just about got all my bits and pieces together and have started planning my wiring schematic. Can anyone see any obvious flaws with this circuit?
I'll be using two 10a feeds, each operating a PID controlled 2400w element and a kaixin pump.

I'll be getting an electrician in the family to do the final inspection and testing but I've been enjoying the knowledge I'm gaining from this project.


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## Camo6

^ Bump for the evening crowd.


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## MastersBrewery

The diagram looks good to me, and that's just from looking at similar setups for years now. Though there is one thing I'd look at; it need more lights I mean your going to all that trouble and 5 LED's is all you can fit in there? I feel Your not putting enough effort into the bling we all crave.

MB


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## Camo6

Haha! I haven't included the led strip which will surround the fascia and pulse to the tempo of any brew tunes playing. Actually I haven't included the 2 alarms and mute switches.
The only thing I've noticed is if one circuit trips then the mains light may or may not be illuminated depending on which rcbo drops. This is no biggie though as I'll be visually able to see if a PID turns off.


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## Camo6

Might as well keep the pics in this thread since it's been helpful to me looking at people's setups. Started on the wiring tonight:


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## Judanero

LED's pulsing in sync with beats = next level brewery bling. B)


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## jonnir

Just curious why people add circuit breakers in there control panels? Am I missing something?


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## Camo6

jonnir said:


> Just curious why people add circuit breakers in there control panels? Am I missing something?


Do you mean why not just rely on the main switchboard? I'm using RCBO's in mine. I figure it'll be safer if I was to brew on another premises with an unknown switchboard (unlikely, I know). It'll also save me walking out to the meter box if it trips which may limit the amount of beer I can drink on brewday.


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## jonnir

Fair call. I suppose the old saying buy once buy right.


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## Ditchnbeer

Kayne said:


> Mine will be a very similar build mate. What size hlt and how are your heating times with 2400W?


A bit late to reply but my HLT is 18 litres. Have to drain every last drop to get my volume in the boil kettle. Was a bit price conscious at the time of purchasing all my new equipment so I have to refill HLT once sparging is over to run hot water thru MT and HERMs coil for cleaning with PBW. In a perfect world I would have a 30 litre HLT.

Heating times I haven't actually measured. About 12 mins per 10 degrees with full HLT (18 litres) I think.


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## Camo6

Finally finished the wiring today. Fired it up tonight and so far so good. Now to install the probes into the rig and figure out how to program a PID! I better get some labels made up too. Big thanks to Truman for his help and for letting me bomb his thread. :beer:


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## MastersBrewery

I think a line of flashing LEDs along the bottom would finish it off


Looks bloody awesome!!!


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## Hawko777

I am impressed with everyones effort in building their own control boxes.
I too have a basic pid controlled HLT with a HERMS setup.

It seems some people have spent considerable money on their controllers and I was wondering whether it would of been worthwhile buying a BCS-462 control module as the brains to your box. It links to your ipad/ipod/touch screen/android/laptop etc and can be monitored from anywhere.
I am seriously looking at this as an option but would like to hear your opinions as the pro's and con's of pid vs BCS-462 or Brewtroller.
You guys are inspirational for what you've achieved and your experiences would really help someone like me.

cheers


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## pedleyr

With BCS and Brewtroller you still need the exact same parts as a "normal" PID setup, apart from the PID itself - you need an enclosure, SSRs, plugs, elements etc. BCS just controls it all instead of the PID(s). 

Well actually you could do it without switches for every element and pump on the panel if you wanted to, but again that's the same with a normal PID system if you wanted, in both instances you just surrender the ability to control the system manually via those switches. 

Depending on your setup BCS may be cheaper but for most it probably won't be.


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## Hawko777

Thanks Pedleyr

I do like the idea of the BCS462 controller and have seen control boxes with just a few switches.
The switches were 3 ways, off, auto, manual so you can interupt a process if needed.
I have a few spare computers I can use to link up but wifi enabled will allow me to do everything via my tablet and or phone.

I would like to know if you can use remote sensors on dispensing and fermenting fridges. Especially since they are not in the same room.
Now to just figure out what I need and purchase.

Keep up the good work


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## mrsupraboy

Truman said:


> Here is a rear view showing the XLR connectors for the probe sockets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rearbrewcontroller.jpg
> 
> And finally here it is running. The mash Pid isn't connected yet as I only just realised the probe Kev sent me has a male XLR connector and so are my sockets. So I have a female connector I will have to solder on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pids light.jpg


Question 

How come you used to different types of pids. Is it cause only 1 really needs to be programmable. Or something else

And also why are people using heat sinks. Can the pids adjust the elements via a heatsink or are the heatsinks for manual control of the elements.


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## Camo6

SSR's get hot. Heat decreases efficiency and lifespan. Heatsinks disperse the heat.


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## mrsupraboy

And how is the heat sink wired up. Is it always powered


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## Camo6

Nah. Just a chunk of alloy with fins. Heat energy from the ssr is transferred to the heatsink (with the help of thermal paste) and the fins help dissipate the heat preferably outside the box. Like the block of an air cooled 2 stroke. An alternative is to use internal fans to blow across the ssr like some in this thread.


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## spog

Camo6 said:


> Nah. Just a chunk of alloy with fins. Heat energy from the ssr is transferred to the heatsink (with the help of thermal paste) and the fins help dissipate the heat preferably outside the box. Like the block of an air cooled 2 stroke. An alternative is to use internal fans to blow across the ssr like some in this thread.


As Camo6 said,the heat sink with thermal paste helps dissipate the heat,but the paste works best when it is used with a metal enclosure ? Although it can be used in a plastic enclosure ( again my understanding).
The easiest way to make sure the guts of the control panel is kept cool,and not having to worry about sizing a heat sink is to use an old 12volt computer fan that is hooked into you control panel so it is running whenever the control panel is fired up.
The fan can be mounted inside or out,with vent holes or screens for circulation.
My 2 cents worth.


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## Camo6

Spog, my SSR's screw straight to the underside of the heatsink allowing good contact with the paste. Then I cut holes slightly larger than the SSR's into the enclosure so the heatsinks could be screwed to the enclosure. The only place there is paste is between ssr and heatsink. Which is good as it's nasty shit and not good to get on your skin!
I wanted to avoid running a stepdown transformer plus fans, vents etc for a few reasons but mainly because I like the look of the heatsink on top. It's like a little toupe!


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## QldKev

mrsupraboy said:


> Question
> 
> How come you used to different types of pids. Is it cause only 1 really needs to be programmable. Or something else
> 
> And also why are people using heat sinks. Can the pids adjust the elements via a heatsink or are the heatsinks for manual control of the elements.



Bit of terminology

pid is the controller
SSR is a solid state relay which accepts a small 12v dc feed from the pid to control the high current to the element, ie the 240vac 10/15/N amp load.
heat sink is just a metal block that sucks excessive heat away from the SSR

most pids cannot switch the full 240vac 10amp load, so we use it to send a signal to a SSR to do the work.


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## mrsupraboy

All good. I understand most of it from being an electrician. Just getting my head around how it works to build my system. Anyone can put things together but to make them work efficiently an understanding is needed. I'm also trying to find the limitations of what I can do. Pids arnt far of from BMS or plc's which I work on all the time. But seem to be a lot more basic.

Also learning a lot of the short terms e.g SSR solid state relay


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## seamad

As for the different types of PID, I have 3 different models of the Auber units on mine:
Normal one for the HLT as I just want it at a set temp
Ramp/soak for the RIMS for step mashing
Kettle has one that you can set output as a % to control boil easier


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## mrsupraboy

So how does the percentage one work


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## seamad

Works like a normal PID in that you can set it at a set temp or change it to a % output. I've 2 X 2400W elements, set at 100% to get to boil and then drop down to 90ish% once boiling to give a less vigorous boil ( 11% boil off rate at @ 90% ), depending on the brew volume .


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## mrsupraboy

Does the pid drop the voltage of the elements making them work at 90%


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## Mardoo

And where did you get it? That's pretty cool.


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## seamad

As far as I know it's something to do with leprechauns .

This maybe more helpful:
http://auberins.com/images/Manual/SWA-24x1%20v1.pdf


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## Camo6

seamad said:


> As far as I know it's something to do with leprechauns .
> 
> This maybe more helpful:
> http://auberins.com/images/Manual/SWA-24x1%20v1.pdf


Is this the actual model you use Seamad? I think the standard 2352 in manual mode will output a percentage to the element. It's a pity the 2352p doesn't have the same feature or it would be great for simple 1v setups with step mashing.


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## seamad

It's the SWA 2451


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## seamad

The swa 2451 also has a timer function, which was why I got that one for the kettle, after reading the instructions I got a headache and decided my watch was easier.


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## mrsupraboy

mrsupraboy said:


> Does the pid drop the voltage of the elements making them work at 90%


???


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## mxd

mrsupraboy said:


> ???


I would work on the theory it turns the power on fo .9 then off for .1


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## seamad

no the power stays on the whole time, I would think it works much like an ordinary stove element


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## mrsupraboy

Can you set the minimum and max percentage. Say min to 20% and max to 100%. Also is it only 240v it changes or cannu get ones that change 12vdc .

Can you set perimeters on it for e.g set point is 70degrees. It drops half a degree so its at 50% operations so after 30secs it doesn't reach temp so then it works at 100% till reached.

Trying to figure out if I can do the gas setup I want


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## seamad

no, just a set %
They make a 12vdc pid that could operate a solenoid valve http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1
If wanting to control at 70 I wouldnt use % output but the auto PID ( thats easy with electric elements)
Controlling gas sounds tricky


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## stux

If the PID is connecting to the element via an SSR, then its turning the SSR on/off in a duty cycle to control the power to the element, rather than varying the voltage to the element.

Which is why you use a Solid State relay, instead of an electro-mechanical one.


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## krausenhaus

mrsupraboy said:


> Can you set the minimum and max percentage. Say min to 20% and max to 100%. Also is it only 240v it changes or cannu get ones that change 12vdc .
> 
> Can you set perimeters on it for e.g set point is 70degrees. It drops half a degree so its at 50% operations so after 30secs it doesn't reach temp so then it works at 100% till reached.
> 
> Trying to figure out if I can do the gas setup I want


You can set upper and lower % output limits, yeah.

The SYL-2352 has a 12V output, but it's not sending a variable voltage which it sounds like you want. It's basically switching between 12V or 0V at a rate dependant on the % output calculated by the controller.

You can't program specific response instructions like you asked, but you can change the aggressiveness/speed of error correction by adjusting the tuning constants. I wouldn't really recommend doing this unless you understand what they do, especially given the fact that you're planning to control fire.

I'm sure there's plenty of guys over at Homebrewtalk that have used PIDs on gas systems so it may be worth having an extensive look over there.


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## Mardoo

The Brutus 10 uses basic PIDs on a gas system. The build instructions can be bought from BYO as a reprint here. It's the first one at the top of the list. You can also find that same article on download doing a bit of searching, however BYO is a worthy magazine to support.


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## Hopnsandles

Hey guys , I had advise and bought 2 cheap controllers and got my uncle to wire it up (he's an electrician) , he said it may be a little weak though and he was right . After 8 all grain sessions it melted . I did notice a lot of heat in the plug connections . My local HBS says these units are great but I reckon they can't handle the 2 x 2400w elements I'm running. Any advise or experience regarding a better controller build and cost would be appreciated. I reckon my Electric Brewery is the bomb but without heat it's just a bunch of stainless


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## lael

What are you controlling? 1 element in HLT and 1 in Mash tun? or both in one kettle?


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## Hopnsandles

Yeah 1 2400w in the mash tun , it only needs to reach and maintain temp , no stress . The boil kettle also has a 2400w . I use the that to get sparge water to temp and then boil after transferring wort . So it works quite hard . As you can see in the pic only the LEFT controller is badly damaged (boil controller). Having access only to 10amp outlets I think I'm limited or am I ? OR should I go to GAS I'm fairly new to this style of brewing, have been doing kits and extract for years but thought I would step it up .


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## lael

The power socket on the right does not look happy either - you might need to get something with a higher rating. Maybe you could wire the power to an AC activated SSR (something similar to: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/40A-24-480V-AC-to-80-380V-AC-Solid-State-Relay-SSR-40AA-/)%C2 that the STC1000 is only switching the SSR on and off (put them on a heatsink) and the SSR is carrying the main current load.


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## MastersBrewery

lael said:


> The power socket on the right does not look happy either - you might need to get something with a higher rating. Maybe you could wire the power to an AC activated SSR (something similar to: that the STC1000 is only switching the SSR on and off (put them on a heatsink) and the SSR is carrying the main current load.


Agree with above, however I believe the heat issue is down to the guage wire used. Get some decent 2mm cable, I think you'd then be giving the stc a fair go. I used a 15 amp heavy duty tradies extention cord. Event at 10m it don't warm up. I also run two 2400w elements.


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## Camo6

+1 to above. If that's only 1mm2 flexible cord it's really only rated to 10A. Even 1.5mm2 is limited to 16A which is probably the size of the breaker it's running on.
You could get your electrician to wire it with 2.5mm2 but I'd be dubious on the stc's ability myself. I used one without issue on a herms and hlt but they were in separate units and never working as hard as a kettle element.
I'd be considering looking into SSR's and even PIDs if you're wanting to upgrade. Definitely research the electric brewery (it doesn't need all the bells and whistles but they are nice).


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## Benn

I'd like to use an STC-1000 to control a keg King 2200w element for mashing temps only, I've got an AC activated SSR (+heat sink & paste) on order. The 10A STC I have should be fine without the SSR but it's posts like the above with the pic of a melted STC that are freaking me out. 
Has/does anyone use an STC+SSR combo? I thought I was on the right path the the AC activated SSR but just watched a YouTube clip of a pommy chap talking about removing the relays from the STC, bridging some circuits and then using a 3-32V DC SSR...

...I've been avidly following the various controller threads and at this point in time PIDS are not for me,

Cheers.


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## Dae Tripper

Benn said:


> I'd like to use an STC-1000 to control a keg King 2200w element for mashing temps only, I've got an AC activated SSR (+heat sink & paste) on order. The 10A STC I have should be fine without the SSR but it's posts like the above with the pic of a melted STC that are freaking me out.
> Has/does anyone use an STC+SSR combo? I thought I was on the right path the the AC activated SSR but just watched a YouTube clip of a pommy chap talking about removing the relays from the STC, bridging some circuits and then using a 3-32V DC SSR...
> ...I've been avidly following the various controller threads and at this point in time PIDS are not for me,
> Cheers.


In the electrical world just because something says 10amp doesn't mean it can run things up there all day. Anyways you sure can run a ssr off an stc or a separate and more appropriate relay/contactor. You can also switch anything from a 240v stc as the relay contacts are separate, eg dc power supply. Hope that helps ya.


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## TwoCrows

Benn, Just found this clip to give you an idea of wiring in a relay. This is not an SSR relay but uses a 12 volt powered contact switch, Gash explains it all in his video.

I am not a sparky and I am only passing on information found on line, so I cannot state this is wired the correct way, but is a good start.

Link is below and stc1000 and rely description starts at 5:15 minutes.


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## Hopnsandles

Thanks for your comments , I've been researching over the last couple of days and all above are issues with BUDGET controllers . I tried to be a tight ass on a budget build and keep costs low . For the money I've spent I'm really happy , makes great beer but I'm thinking GAS HLT and Electric Mash Tun combo . My brother who's been brewing like me for years has a GAS single tier system and he swears by Gas . I have another controller I bought New from my HBS (professionally wired ?) , so given low temp load on the controller is low ( only needing to reach 75deg c ) I'll modify to a combo system . Give it a go and wait for more reliable controllers to hit the market. But I'm still a tight ass . 
Thanks again for your comments


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## Ditchnbeer

While your controllers are rated at 10 amp this does not mean that they can handle 10 amp continuous load. This is why we have the temp controller control an SSR, which in turn switches the voltage to the element on and off. If the SSR controls a 2400W element (10A) then buy a 20A SSR, so it can def handle the load.

In the photos there are issues with heat and quality of fittings. Cable should be 2.5mm. Solder connections where you can. The 10A 3 pin sockets used are same as above, cannot handle long time 10A loads. Use industrial types which are way better quality, like:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Panel-Mounting-Socket-IEC-250vAC-10Amp-10-Pack-CN109b-/160656713912?hash=item2567e2e8b8:m:mZ1IvGBJNP1NTE7-2tBGueg

Regarding heat, I recommend at least one air vent to allow hot air to leave the interior. If you wanna get serious install a small fan (like PC cooling fan) to draw cool air across electrical components. And SSRs need to be mounted on heatsinks,
Goodluck.


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## Benn

Apologies if I'm steering this thread a bit wayward, I may need to start a new one soon.

http://www.ebay.com.au/ulk/itm/111584270547 

This is the SSR that I've ordered along with a heat sink to power a Keg King element.
I've also purchased one of these http://www.ebay.com.au/ulk/itm/171943948400 to dial the element back a bit when required. 

Any glaringly obvious problems with the above?


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## Fylp

I've got an ssr stc combo. Just rigged it up since I went to a 3600w element. Works fine. They struggle with 10 Amps without melting.


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## Fylp

Biggest problem I see is the keg King element. Grab a 5 star, I almost lost a batch and skin to a keg King recently


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## lael

Its probably not much more to get a 40A SSR and it will give you some headspace, which seems to be common practise with the cheaper SSRs out of china.


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## Benn

Fylp said:


> Biggest problem I see is the keg King element. Grab a 5 star, I almost lost a batch and skin to a keg King recently


Was it one of the new design KK elements? I thought they'd Ironed out a lot of the wrinkles from the original model?


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## Fylp

Benn said:


> Was it one of the new design KK elements? I thought they'd Ironed out a lot of the wrinkles from the original model?


It was an old one rewired by I genius sparky. He then re-inspected it and told me the original insulation melted and somehow bridged the connection, causing it to blow. The stuff was dripping out when it blew. I'll never touch one again.


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## Benn

I found the KK element thread, I'm up to page 5,
Fukettyfukfuk...I wonder if they'll let me swap it for other stuff in store


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