# Growler Upgrade - adding carb cap for counterfilling/extra carbing



## buckerooni (16/6/16)

So, having multiple portable beer dispensers from party kegs to the (useless) KK drafto kit to skanky 2ltr coke bottles I've realised the only two things that are actually important to me with portable beer under 10L : keeping it well carbed well and keeping it cold.

I want to rock up somewhere with my beer, drop it on a table, and not have to worry about it getting cold or fiddling with some c02 serving thingy and have it look respectable. 

I typically grab a 1-2ltr PET bottle, counterfill with a carb cab and add a some C02 to keep that sucker gassed. Works great, but looks ghetto and needs to be kept cold. SS growlers look great, keep the beer cold but carbonation is a problem.

Enter the SS growler with a PET top to allow a carb cap to be fitted - KAPOW! Counter fill it, spritz with some C02, and either keep carb cap on or remove and replace with a standard PET lid! This will guarantee your beer with be carbed and cold! yeehah!





Link to Carb Cap: http://kegking.com.au/carbonation-cap-line-cleaning-cap-counter-pressure-filler.html

Have a mate who's got a 3D printer so I'm gonna hit him up, but if anyone else wants to throw their hat in the ring to help out make this a reality let me know!


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## angus_grant (16/6/16)

Here a ready-to-go solution for $25. Apologies for the large image

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=5645


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## buckerooni (16/6/16)

yeah I've got the drafto kit thinking it was the answer but I find it doesn't work very well and is just a hassle. As the drafto kit ($25) requires the mini reg ($50) and a bulb ($2) each time - so it's more like $75 on top of the growler plus a bulb each fill.

I was going to buy a few kits until the following reasons stopped me:

1. you need C02 bulbs, one per use
2. the mini reg is pricey and doesn't work very well (leaks C02, reg control is poor)
3. can fizz up if it's warm (the line and tap)
4. cannot scale to mulitple growlers without multiple drafto kits,regs,bulbs. I want something that can take up to 6L with minimum gear while keeping it classy.
5. fiddly, prone to leaks


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## Liam_snorkel (16/6/16)

to add to the above, my keg king mini reg stopped working. piece of crap imo


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## buckerooni (16/6/16)

YEAH! I was being too kind, the KK drafto/mini reg kit is expensive and useless h34r:


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## N3MIS15 (16/6/16)

Plastic 3d printed parts would not be durable enough. I do like the idea though. Maybe a bulkhead fitting + nut would do the job? http://kegking.com.au/co2-cylinders/ball-lock-post-with-1-4-inch-bulkhead-assembly-gas.html


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## angus_grant (16/6/16)

huh, doesn't sound like I've used mine as much as you guys.

Biggest pain for me is filing them, so maybe a bulk head fitted to the lid would make filling easier.

Attach beer line to bottom of fitting, feed beer into fitting, crack lid to start transfer, and profit.


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## Liam_snorkel (16/6/16)

The drafto thing works perfectly, it's just the KK reg that broke after a few goes.


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## buckerooni (17/6/16)

N3MI said:


> Plastic 3d printed parts would not be durable enough. I do like the idea though. Maybe a bulkhead fitting + nut would do the job? http://kegking.com.au/co2-cylinders/ball-lock-post-with-1-4-inch-bulkhead-assembly-gas.html


That could be a good place to start. the beer line would be attached to the bottom of the lid, making pouring slightly more of an issue, but not much. Think I've got a keg with posts I'm not using at the moment, might use one of those as a pilot.


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## Yob (17/6/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> The drafto thing works perfectly, it's just the KK reg that broke after a few goes.


all things homebrew (Sydney Homebrew Supplies is the user name here) sell a tank version of the mini reg, far superior I hear, I should be seeing it next week, but check out the mini keg bulk buy thread for pictures.

Im told they are quite sturdy and not prone to the faults that the KK unit is..

Ive had two or 3 of those bastards.. the best and longest living one I had was the one I filled the regulator with araldite after knocking it ever so slightly.. well ok, I dropped it...

>LINKY<


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## Liam_snorkel (17/6/16)

sweet, I'll have to pick one up


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## angus_grant (17/6/16)

More $$$
::shakesFistAtYob::


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## buckerooni (17/6/16)

My grumble is you need a drafto/mini reg/bulb for each growler. You can't swap the reg between units without losing pressure.

Was playing with the idea of sticking a gas post/carb cap off the drafto kit so the reg can be interchanged between units without this problem, but you end up with all this stuff hanging off your growler like dogs balls and the reliance on bulbs also just urks me.

OK. time to get this growler upgrade off the ground and stop bitching about the alternatives!


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## dblunn (17/6/16)

Has anyone made an adaptor to go from a soda stream gas bottle to one of those mini regulators? That would make it economical.


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## twizt1d (17/6/16)

id rather just use something like this and gravity pour http://minikeg.net.au/index.php?temp=0

would probably fit a couple in an esky


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## welly2 (17/6/16)

tonesbrew said:


> id rather just use something like this and gravity pour http://minikeg.net.au/index.php?temp=0
> 
> would probably fit a couple in an esky


How do you carbonate with those things? As you would with bottles? Dextrose?


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## buckerooni (18/6/16)

dblunn said:


> Has anyone made an adaptor to go from a soda stream gas bottle to one of those mini regulators? That would make it economical.



the point of this upgrade is to travel with less stuff while keeping it cold and carbonated. Economics of either the bulb or sodastream still don't do it for me. I've got a SS bottle too - and it's impossible to know how much gas is left in that damn bottle! Relying on C02 while 'on the road' is something I want to avoid.


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## trhr (30/6/16)

buckerooni said:


> So, having multiple portable beer dispensers from party kegs to the (useless) KK drafto kit to skanky 2ltr coke bottles I've realised the only two things that are actually important to me with portable beer under 10L : keeping it well carbed well and keeping it cold.
> 
> I want to rock up somewhere with my beer, drop it on a table, and not have to worry about it getting cold or fiddling with some c02 serving thingy and have it look respectable.
> 
> ...



I know where you're going with this, and I thought about doing it myself too until I bought 2 mini kegs with ball lock heads in the recent BB. I'm getting some keg coolers made up for them, should keep it cold enough for half a day.
Anyway, I made two PET male threads for my portable kegerator as shown in the pics below (I can't seem to get the site uploader to stop turning some pics upside down sorry).
You'll need to turn them on a lathe and since the SS is so thin on the growler lid you'd need to SS solder it to the lid.
Can be done, but I don't know if it's worth the effort??


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## buckerooni (4/7/16)

Very interesting Redman, out of interest, what is on the bottom side of the SS PET threads?! How does it connect to the keg/vessel?

I hadn't banked on the 3D printed part being unsuitable for use. Could always get something moulded I guess.

There's this approach, although it will probably work better from the liquid out, as the C02 will enter from the bottom, helping to purge any air that is in there. It would also mean you could counter fill it too..Just have a gas disconnect hooked up to a pony tap to swap from 'gas in' to 'liquid out'. 

This is a little bit of a tanget to what I originally wanted, but is probably a good compromise for the fking around of trying to get a PET thread on the SS growler lid!


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## trhr (5/7/16)

buckerooni said:


> Very interesting Redman, out of interest, what is on the bottom side of the SS PET threads?! How does it connect to the keg/vessel?
> 
> I hadn't banked on the 3D printed part being unsuitable for use. Could always get something moulded I guess.
> 
> ...


There's nothing on the bottom, the SS plate is just glued and screwed to the cooler top. The male SS pet threads are TIG and soldered to the SS plate.
The male threads are only there to screw on a carb cap to hold on a ball lock securely for the tap. I just repeated it for the gas dc so it looks pretty.

I had a look again at my SS growler, and there's no easy way to attach a carb cap to it. It's a thin SS skin with a hard plastic inside core holding it together, followed by the soft rubber seal.
I think you'd wreck the lid even if you tried to drill a large enough hole to fit a ball lock bulkhead to it.
You really need a screw top insulated growler to make it worthwhile to do. They are around, but a bit pricey. They even have a lid option which has a gas ball lock on it and a tap, so you could always remove the tap and plug what looks like an MFL thread? Then it's pretty much done already!
Pics are from ikegger.









I do like more your idea of just connecting carb caps to beer line of the drafto cap, although it's a little unwieldy.
That's why in the end I just take my 5L mini kegs with my new keg coolers, job done!
By the way, Bacchus brewing do sorta counter fill with a draft-o cap on glass growlers. They do it though with a hose connected onto the tap into the beer out and vent out of the gas in with some line and a needle/ball valve if I remember correctly.

Good luck, if you go through with any of it, post pics and progress as I know it will help others who will end up down the same path.


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## buckerooni (6/7/16)

thanks for the info redman!

I am going to go minimal - try chucking a check valve on it so I can attach a carb cap w/tubing onto it as required.

So, this is purely for carbing prior to transport, and would still open the swingtop for pouring.


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## buckerooni (16/7/16)

MK I of the Insulated SS Growler upgrade complete!

- sealed the original gas inlet with a SS hex nut
- use a push fitting to :
- attach a jumper lead with liquid at one end, then a straight-line push fitting connector for counter filling
- add gas QD for carbing, or extra spritz after filling (pictured)

This means I can counter fill, put on agas QD and add a spritz of gas from the same connection without losing pressure. Works out around $65 a unit if you use a decent gas QD.

Could add a bronco tap for dispensing, but this would need gas 'on location' which I don't want to bother with.


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## buckerooni (16/7/16)

oh yeah. check valve didn't work. Filling through the stop valve obstructs the beer flow turning it into a fizzy mess. Also, I guess the stop valve is designed to stop liquid going IN, as opposed to stopping gas going OUT, in short, it leaked gas a bit. Idea FAIL!


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## claypot (3/9/16)

Just stumbled across this topic.
I agree Buckerooni.
I think it has great merit and is exactly the same conclusion I came too, after weighing up all the options. 
Other options have to much fruit attached and relying on co2 bulbs is not an option for me.

How about screwing a Schrader valve (car tyre valve) into the original gas inlet?
You would then need to adapt a tyre inflator to connect to the co2, - shouldn't be any drama or expense.


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## claypot (3/9/16)

Even something like this drilled and fitted to the neck cut excess thread off . Ditch the rubber seals and use silicone 'O' rings?
Probably not stainless though.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4x-Universal-Car-TR43E-Metal-Clamp-in-Tubeless-Tyre-Tire-Wheel-Schrader-Valves-/391483745349?hash=item5b263fe445:g:9gIAAOSwzJ5XYRE5


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## buckerooni (15/10/16)

i should follow my own topic for replies!

the schrader valve with the thread is a really neat idea! 

I've discovered that trying to fill the growler via the QD fitting is still prone to fizzing so I don't need the liquid line in - I now use my SS intertap flow control with growler filler attachment for much better control and results. I think having a number of attachments/tubing combined with them not being at beer serving temp makes the fizz problem worse.

the only advantage of the gas coming in on that inlet is it will enter from the bottom of the growler and through the beer - but the schrader value could go on either no worries.

The weldless fitting while being innovative and incredibly economical, just doesn't feel right and yeah, wouldn't be SS.

not having the QD dinging around is a massive advantage. I still like the drafto kit lid due to the bottom filling capability and the pressure release valve. gonna give the valve a shot!


not having the QD dinging around is a massive advantage. I still like the drafto kit lid due to the bottom filling capability and the pressure release valve.


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## buckerooni (10/12/16)

ok, very happy with the way this worked out. The 5mm ID was much easier to work than the 4mm to get the schrader valve over the tube! 









I'm done! Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions. :beerbang: :beerbang:


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## buckerooni (10/12/16)

and this, the push fitting stopper valve is a really handy addition:


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## claypot (10/12/16)

Nice one mate!
Is it working O.k?

I gather you trial and error how much Co2 pressure and how long to charge for? 

Does the built in pressure relief valve activate?

Could you of screwed the Schrader valve in where the stainless plug is? 

Is the barb molded into the plastic and not able to be screwed out?

Any idea what thread the stainless plug is?
I might start ordering parts!


I ask these questions as I haven't bought a growler or drafto kit yet.

Cheers mate, nice one.


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## buckerooni (12/12/16)

cheers claypot. yep - working well! Always good getting a nice 'pop' when you crack the lid on a growler!

I'm not actually force carbing, just using it to really purge out any O2 and provide some CO2 under pressure to maintain the existing carbonation. Around 50kpa is what I'm going for. The KK flasks are rated to 200 kpa/2 bar.

the barb is moulded in, haven't checked the hex screw thread - but it's BSP. The reason for using the barb is it's connected to a dip tube, which should be better for purging as the C02 comes from the bottom of the vessel.

good luck with your build if you go down this path, I reckon it's a winner!


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## claypot (12/12/16)

Sweet mate, I'll pick up a growler and get onto it.
I got a couple of stainless Schrader valves that are like a bulk head fitting and will try to fit to the original cap.


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## Ballaratguy (15/10/17)

Jeez guys you are making a mountain out of a mole hill
I have the cheap growlers from ebay$17 ea delivered & use a drafto on them. The locking arms on the drafto need to be bent down to allow the drafto to be used on these growlers as the swing fitting is a little different
Fit airline push connectors and a tap $3-4 to the gas side of the drafto & you can then use co2 to pressurise the growler
Keg king have an adapter to use a soda stream bottle to the regulator
There is also a single shot thingio on eBay for adding co2 to pressurise the growler on demand so no regulator required and no wastage of the gas


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## claypot (16/10/17)

That Kilkenny looks pretty flat you should work out a way to get more co2 in it
I'm more about putting the beer in the Vac growler and giving it a blast of Co2 then on me way. Tip the beer in a glass when I get there. Too much crap hanging off 2 litres for me.


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## Ballaratguy (16/10/17)

Yes the brew in the glass was a bit flat. It was only my second pour from the growler set up and my only pic of the entire thing
I’ve worked out to set the gas at 15 psi so I get a good head, and can also force carb the beer at that so I now stick to setting the gas at 15 psi
Works for me


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## Fro-Daddy (18/10/17)

Could something like my attached pic work? Essentially you keep the carbonation cap you already have, put a rubber washer under and make a new clamp to hold it down.


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## buckerooni (23/10/17)

Ballaratguy said:


> Jeez guys you are making a mountain out of a mole hill
> I have the cheap growlers from ebay$17 ea delivered & use a drafto on them. The locking arms on the drafto need to be bent down to allow the drafto to be used on these growlers as the swing fitting is a little different
> Fit airline push connectors and a tap $3-4 to the gas side of the drafto & you can then use co2 to pressurise the growler
> Keg king have an adapter to use a soda stream bottle to the regulator
> There is also a single shot thingio on eBay for adding co2 to pressurise the growler on demand so no regulator required and no wastage of the gas



if you read the thread and see the final design - there's just a schrader valve hanging off the unit - real simple and elegant. no C02, no reg, no tap. Just buy install a hex bolt and a valve on the drafto, with the complimentary fitting to your home C02 supply and you're done. So, take it easy with all that kit hanging off your growler.


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