# Experiences fermenting lager strains at ale temps?



## Jamesco (13/7/16)

After doing a few searches I've found most people don't recommend fermenting lager strains at ale temps because of off flavours. I was hoping that anyone who has experimented with different strains might be able to share any experiences they have had with certain lager strains above 15c. 

After reading about a few success stories I thought what the hell I would give it a go. I split a batch and tried out 2 strains. Both were pale ales fermented between 17-19c.

Saflager W-34/70: Fermentation was fine, had a slight apple ester presence and not as crisp as I would of liked but turned out very drinkable.
Danish Lager 2024: Heavy Sulfur during fermentation. I was worried it would linger afterwards as it was really quite strong. After kegging it disappeared and I was pleasantly surprised, smooth and crisp lager. Really enjoyed this one.

I'm thinking next to trial is going to be WLP940 Mexican Lager.
.
Anyone else had any experiences with different lager yeasts and higher fermentation temperatures?


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## klangers (13/7/16)

Mexican lager is a brilliant yeast. Strong alcohol tolerance and will drop out crystal clear.

I used it at the recommended temperatures though.

I believe the San Francisco lager is bred for higher temps.

I think you'll have more luck in identifying the subtle differences if you brew something less hoppy than a pale ale. The reason why lager yeasts tend to be used at low temperatures is that the beer styles (pilsners, lagers) cannot hide the esters that are believed to be produced at higher metabolic rates/temperatures.


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## droid (13/7/16)

i use 2278 at 9C but once tried a side by side at 9C and 16C and initially the 16C tasted rougher though it was finished much earlier....but smoothed out and i thought it was fine

and then there is at least one micro using us05 in a Pilsner and I thought it was fantastic


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## amarks6 (13/7/16)

I regularly use Swiss Lager Yeast (S-189) at up to 19 degrees and it brews clean as a whistle.


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## pommiebloke (13/7/16)

Dr Rummy said:


> I regularly use Swiss Lager Yeast (S-189) at up to 19 degrees and it brews clean as a whistle.


Me too. Also known as Swiss lager yeast at Craftbrewer.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (13/7/16)

The old joke of S189 meaning to ferment at 18-19 degrees. I know in the early (pre-professional) days, Ross at Craftbrewer used to say that it was fine at 19 degrees and what I tasted in the old days pretty much confirmed it.


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## pommiebloke (13/7/16)

I remember the old flame war about that one. Many people insisted it was impossible but I seem to remember Ross getting an award for a Bohemian Pilsener fermented at 19 degrees.


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## nosco (13/7/16)

Theres a few threads on Safale s-128 thats supposed to work well at higher temps like 18c. Haven't tried it yet.


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## Bribie G (13/7/16)

I don't know if Bacchus has a different setup nowadays, but as LRG said when Bacchus first opened as Commercial brewery (as opposed to a BYO setup) and before the bar being constructed at the entrance, Ross had two big cool rooms, one at 19 and the other at just above freezing. The beers would ferment out in the first room then get wheeled round to the second room for cold conditioning, and the various lagers would be all done at 19 with S-189 and I think S-23.

Had many a lager from the tasting taps and they were as clean as.


ed: wrt to the Danish Lager, I believe it's pretty much what the Duopoly use, or at least a fairly true nephew or niece, and they pitch at 13 degrees and allow to rise gradually to around 19, then lager for about ten days.
I always do that with an Aussie lager and one of mine came second in the Pale Lagers in the Nats a couple of years ago.


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## Liam_snorkel (13/7/16)

still the same system as far as I know.


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## nosco (13/7/16)

Or maybe i meant s189?


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## Jamesco (14/7/16)

So far it seems we have a few other yeasts that also seem to do well. My next trial with WLP940 will be a lighter style beer, although for my last batch I kept the hops quite low compared to my usual schedule to try and discern differences. I might keep a log of mine and others feedback in this thread for anyone wanting to try out lager yeast strains at ale temps.

2278 Cech Pils(16c) - Finished quicker, started out rougher but smoothed out after some time.
S-189 Swiss lager(19c)- Clean as a whistle and seems it might have won compitions brewed at higher temps.

From what I can tell swiss lager seems to be a tried and tested higher temperature lager yeast.

I do get a bit confused because it seems like most people would not call a beer a lager unless the beer was fermented low and cold conditioned. I would assume this is because of subdued ester production that produces a cleaner tasting beer. If we can achieve the same results at a higher temperature range without cold conditioning(S-189 for example), could I still call my beer a lager?


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## klangers (14/7/16)

Jamesco said:


> So far it seems we have a few other yeasts that also seem to do well. My next trial with WLP940 will be a lighter style beer, although for my last batch I kept the hops quite low compared to my usual schedule to try and discern differences. I might keep a log of mine and others feedback in this thread for anyone wanting to try out lager yeast strains at ale temps.
> 
> 2278 Cech Pils(16c) - Finished quicker, started out rougher but smoothed out after some time.
> S-189 Swiss lager(19c)- Clean as a whistle and seems it might have won compitions brewed at higher temps.
> ...


All beer industry terms are based on historical things. Many of these have since changed and are no longer strictly correct.

"Lager" in the relevent context, means "to store" in German. This in turn derived from the fact that many German beers were stored in caves/cellars over winter. 

You can call your beer whatever you want. There exist almost no commercial examples of true lagers anymore anyway, as cold conditioning is actually defined as storing cold OFF the yeast. Lagering is storing cold ON the yeast.


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