# Fermentation Coolroom



## Doc (16/6/08)

My massive chest freezer died last November and I've been limping along with ice bricks to regulate the temp since then.
I've had saved searches on eBay for coolroom panels and chest freezers since then, alas the freezers have been either too small, too old or in the wrong state.
A few coolroom panels have come up, but the cost has been over the top.

About 6 weeks ago I picked up some coolroom panels that I won on eBay, and a couple of coolroom doors.
And so the start of my fermentation coolroom journey began.

Here is a piccy of the raw used panels after getting them home.





The next couple of days were spent trying to workout what best use I could make of them.
After doing some modelling I came up with the following floor plan.






The next few weekends were spent cutting out the panels to form the coolroom.
This was very time consuming and rather labour intensive.

The coolroom is going inside my existing brewshed (read small garden shed).
As such I just needed to fabricate the floor, roof, walls and door in the backyard to get everything to fit together, then dis-assemble and permanently build it in the shed.
So the attached shots are of the components all cut out and loosely arranged as they will fit together. 
There are a few minor trims required, but I left those until it is in was in its final resting spot and I got all my levels sorted.










I sourced a reverse cycle through the window air conditioner on eBay, so the major parts were sourced.

I just had to wait for a couple of fine days to pull everything out of my shed to put the coolroom in.
It hadn't been emptied since we bought the house.
I also had to move the water, the electricity and run a 15A circuit for the air conditioner.

The shed empty.



And then in went the coolroom.





There are still a few bits and pieces to finish off, but in the whole it is almost done.
A mamoth effort, but lack of cool temp controlled space will no longer be an issue.

Beers,
Doc


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## Thirsty Boy (16/6/08)

Doc,

That is bloody cool (pun intended, sorry) nice work.


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## InCider (16/6/08)

It's Ridgey Didge Doc!  
(pun also intended!)

Nice work and would like to see a pic when it's all working.

Cheers,

InCider.


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## matti (16/6/08)

Well done.
I see you scored yourself a window rattler as well.
Noiccee siree bob
jelous as...


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## Doc (16/6/08)

It is now operational.
The air con unit is up and running.
My cabinets are in, and a set of shelves.
Haven't worked out if the air con actually has a thermostat controlled temp shutoff yet, or whether I'll have to control it with a Mash Master temp controller.

Beers,
Doc


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## ausdb (16/6/08)

Doc said:


> It is now operational.
> The air con unit is up and running.
> My cabinets are in, and a set of shelves.
> Haven't worked out if the air con actually has a thermostat controlled temp shutoff yet, or whether I'll have to control it with a Mash Master temp controller.


Does the window rattler just have an old school mechanical thermostat? if so then use your mashmaster if you want any real degree of control. Beware of trying to run it too low (lager temps) as you will probably make it freeze up as well as myriad of other concerns about using someting that it was not really designed for  (in a nutshell something along the lines of premature compressor failure)


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## eric8 (16/6/08)

Nice work Doc, glad you got some fine days to put it altogether!
Will have to come over and sample some beers from the new coolroom  

Eric


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## Doc (16/6/08)

ausdb said:


> Does the window rattler just have an old school mechanical thermostat? if so then use your mashmaster if you want any real degree of control. Beware of trying to run it too low (lager temps) as you will probably make it freeze up as well as myriad of other concerns about using someting that it was not really designed for  (in a nutshell something along the lines of premature compressor failure)



It has a dial going from 1 to 8 for temp, then a Hi, Med and Low speed setting.
I've googled for the model to try and find a manual without success. Seems this unit is popular though in Russia and China 
Ale temps is all I'm shooting for.

Doc


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## Online Brewing Supplies (16/6/08)

So its only for fermentation? Not a cool room as such. Ausdb is the guy to listen to.I have separate fermentation units and a dedicated cool room.I couldnt see one unit doing both.I would recommend having a cool room panel floor and cover with ali checker plate.works for me but a little costly.
GB


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## Doc (16/6/08)

Hey GB.
Yep fermentation only. Hence the title of the topic "Fermentation Coolroom" 
In summer in Sydney it will be cool 

Beers,
Doc


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## ausdb (16/6/08)

Doc said:


> It has a dial going from 1 to 8 for temp, then a Hi, Med and Low speed setting.
> I've googled for the model to try and find a manual without success. Seems this unit is popular though in Russia and China
> Ale temps is all I'm shooting for.


It's not a Lemair by any chance is it, I haven't seen one of them in a looonnngg time? 
So two controls? the one with the 1-8 is the thermostat and the other just fan speed control. You will probably find that if you set it at its max setting then that thermostat will stay closed all the time, leave the fan set on say medium and if you are not brave working on its innards then just use your mashmaster like a fridge controller. Otherwise it will just be a case of substituting the contacts of the mashmaster for the existing thermostat ones. I ma sure there would be an electrical wiring diagram on the unit somewhere, have you slid it out of its case yet or sometimes they are behind a panel near the electricals


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## Online Brewing Supplies (16/6/08)

Doc said:


> Hey GB.
> Yep fermentation only. Hence the title of the topic "Fermentation Coolroom"
> In summer in Sydney it will be cool
> 
> ...


Ah but you did say cool room! :lol: What it starts out to be doesnt always end up being what its used for. Trust me.Im sure you know what you are doing any way.
GB


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## Doc (17/6/08)

ausdb said:


> It's not a Lemair by any chance is it, I haven't seen one of them in a looonnngg time?
> So two controls? the one with the 1-8 is the thermostat and the other just fan speed control. You will probably find that if you set it at its max setting then that thermostat will stay closed all the time, leave the fan set on say medium and if you are not brave working on its innards then just use your mashmaster like a fridge controller. Otherwise it will just be a case of substituting the contacts of the mashmaster for the existing thermostat ones. I ma sure there would be an electrical wiring diagram on the unit somewhere, have you slid it out of its case yet or sometimes they are behind a panel near the electricals



It is a Hitachi. Maybe they are the same model though with two different brand names on them.
Yeah I had it out of its case to install it, and did see the wiring diagram. I didn't think to look closely at it to see if there was a thermostat in the circuit. Dang.

Will let it run for a while tomorrow night and see if it turns itself after running for a while.

Doc


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## yardy (18/6/08)

Nice job Doc B) 

was wondering though, why you'd dedicate so much room to fermentation ?
you going commercial  

Cheers
Yardy


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## Doc (18/6/08)

I can have four beers fermenting at any time, but I'm also storing my grain (in sealed containers), and cubes of wort in there.
Also some kegs and misc brewing gear.

The longer term plan is if I go the conical route I won't have to worry about cooling on the conical(s) as the room will temp controlled.

Doc


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## glennheinzel (18/6/08)

Looks good, Doc. I guess that your next job is to alter your email signature...

"Fermenting: nadah until the coolroom is installed."

Edit:


> I also had to move the water, the electricity and run a 15A circuit for the air conditioner.


 Are you going to give us a picture of the hydroponic setup when complete?


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## Asher (18/6/08)

Sweet work Doc

The Junctyard just took possession of enough 75thk Refrigeration Panel to whip up something similar. Mine will be a slim 1.3 x 1.8 x 2.4 high to fit into one corner of the Juncthouse also. I'm hoping to get it down to 12-14 deg and use it as my conditioning room, long term wine/beer cellar, grain store & fromagerie
Playing with clad panel is good fun isn't it! My Circular saw won't be the same after no doubt! (well actually Trash Mash Al's blade wont... h34r: hehe)
AC is a 1hp split I managed to lay my hands on cheap. Look forward to comparing results and figuring out how to override the thermostat


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## Doc (18/6/08)

Asher said:


> Sweet work Doc
> 
> The Junctyard just took possession of enough 75thk Refrigeration Panel to whip up something similar. Mine will be a slim 1.3 x 1.8 x 2.4 high to fit into one corner of the Juncthouse also. I'm hoping to get it down to 12-14 deg and use it as my conditioning room, long term wine/beer cellar, grain store & fromagerie
> Playing with clad panel is good fun isn't it! My Circular saw won't be the same after no doubt! (well actually Trash Mash Al's blade wont... h34r: hehe)
> AC is a 1hp split I managed to lay my hands on cheap. Look forward to comparing results and figuring out how to override the thermostat



Awesome.
Yeah my panels were all 100mm thick except for the floor that is 75mm. I was using metal cutting blades (like you use on an angle grinder) on my circular saw and went through about 9 of them. Even the kids were complaining about the noise  Every cut was two cuts (top side and under side), so quite time consuming.
Will be looking into the thermostat diagram carefully tonight.
I want to get the fermentation chamber in action before I jump the country end of the week (check my blog entry )

Doc


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## trevc (18/6/08)

That's a great setup. Except, the neighbours will think you're growing weed in your shed


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## ant (20/6/08)

It's beautiful Doc. Now I want one even more. Reckon I could slip the panels round the side of the house when SWMBO wasn't looking?


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## Peter Wadey (20/6/08)

G'day Doc,
What will you do if the A/C bothers the neighbours?
By law you'll have to switch it off after 10PM if they complain.

Rgds,
Pete


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## Doc (16/9/08)

Finally as the daylight hours are getting longer, and the days warmer, the fermentation coolroom is starting to come to life.

It has taken a bit of tuning, but I think I have it set optimally at the moment. The key has been a 17degC setpoint with 2 degC hysteresis and a 10min compressor delay (on the Mashmaster controller).
I did have a 2 degC hysteresis set, but the way the airconditioner works it wasn't blowing just cold air continuously even though set to max coolness. As such it would almost get down to set temp, then things would warm up a little as it reduced its cooling output causing the unit to run longer that was really necessary.

The attached chart shows what I mean. Yesterday it was on a 4degC hysteresis until mid evening (even though I admit I was in and out of the coolroom yesterday causing it to loose cool air), whilst today it is cycling about once an hour.





Beers,
Doc


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## fraser_john (16/9/08)

Doc,

whats the dimmensions of your "coolroom" and how much power does the air conditioner use? I can get my hands on a whole coolroom of panels for nix and think it would be a good spring/summer project to get going on.


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## Doc (16/9/08)

Hey FJ,

Checkout my blog on AHB here (under Blogs) and there is an entry with the design of it.
As for how much power it uses. No idea. It is coming on about once an hour for a few minutes. It is a grunty little 15A unit.

Beers,
Doc


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## Doc (17/9/08)

Definitely much happier with the 2degC hysteresis. 
Even though yesterday was a little cooler it didn't seem to have to work too hard even with an active ferment starting.
Good to see it didn't even come on over night too.




Doc


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## trevc (17/9/08)

I wonder if I could section off part of our apartment to build one of these... 

Sounds like your setup is working well. How many fermenters are you planning to have filled at once?


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## Crunched (17/9/08)

Doc, can I ask how you measure and graph temps? I'm in the process of writing a script to graph temp inputs from a probe in my fermenter to produce a similar result as your graph - but if you have any suggestions, I'd love to hear them.


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## Doc (17/9/08)

trevc said:


> Sounds like your setup is working well. How many fermenters are you planning to have filled at once?



As many as I need to.
I could easily have have 6 going if need be. 
My base grain is also stored in the cupboards, plus there are some bottled beers, and misc AG equip.




Crunched said:


> Doc, can I ask how you measure and graph temps? I'm in the process of writing a script to graph temp inputs from a probe in my fermenter to produce a similar result as your graph - but if you have any suggestions, I'd love to hear them.



This topic and post has all the details of how I setup my temp logging and monitoring.

Beers,
Doc


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## JasonY (17/9/08)

It's a nice background to be sure Doc, but its crap for making the graph easy to read


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## FarsideOfCrazy (17/9/08)

JasonY said:


> It's a nice background to be sure Doc, but its crap for making the graph easy to read



+1 :lol: .


But on another note I can only dream of such beer making extravagance.


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## Doc (17/9/08)

JasonY said:


> It's a nice background to be sure Doc, but its crap for making the graph easy to read



When I did it in 2002/3 opacity was a bitch.
Now, yes I could probably redo it and improve readability. However I'm the only one that has the URL and has to read it 

Doc


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## dr_fuct (11/10/08)

Years ago I built portable site offices out of coolroom panels and the way we cut the panels was with an air chisel with a three pronged attachment (two upper fingers and the middle finger pointing downwards ) we would cut through one side(the two upper fingers of the chisel blade on top of the wall of the panel the middle one under and the piece between the two fingers would roll up like opening a sardine can) hope this makes sense turn it over cut the other side then saw through the foam with a big knife


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## amiddler (11/10/08)

On the back of sirdrinksalot, for cutting coolroom panels I have always used double cutting sheers and can now come as a drill attachment making them quite affordable. They have a fixed 2 pronged fork like section and a moving middle blade that like SDA said, cuts and rolls a 5mm section of waste. Would still need to cut both sides then run a large sharp knife down the centre to separate the foam. Very neat job and the foam doesn't start to melt on the edges from the heat off the circular saw.

Shears

These also able you to cut the panels on a 45' for a perfect finished corner. Just finnish off with a little flashing if you need one at all.

View attachment Foam.bmp


Just info for everyone else who wants one, including me.

Drew


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