# What Does Kk Or K+k Mean?



## albrews (26/2/07)

hi, can someone inform me of the meaning of the second K in the acronym KK or K+K

the first k would be kit.

cheers


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## QldKev (26/2/07)

Kilo as in kilogram of sugar/dextrose


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## Tony M (26/2/07)

Kits and Kilos ( of other stuff)


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## QldKev (26/2/07)

haha beat you


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## albrews (26/2/07)

Tony M said:


> Kits and Kilos ( of other stuff)



thanks, i wonder did the website boss mean KE ,for the major heading of KITS AND EXTRACT.

cheers


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## QldKev (26/2/07)

Kits and Extracts are almost the same, basically both being malt extracts, but a kit having hop bitterness and flavouring (and wishing for aroma)


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## Fingerlickin_B (26/2/07)

albrews said:


> thanks, i wonder did the website boss mean KE ,for the major heading of KITS AND EXTRACT.
> 
> cheers



No, he did mean Kit & Kilo. 

You see the problem is that although all-extract brews will give a far superior brew compared to something made with half sugar, most AG brewers will still call you a "K&K Brewer" even if you don't use that kilo of sugar. 

Sucks yes, but thems the breaks B) 

Just FYI, I reckon good beers can be made with kits/extract...you just don't have the freedom AG gives you.

PZ. 

p.s. After swearing Id never have to go AG and then doing so out of compulsion, I can say my best brew to date was an AGbut still throw down heaps of kits and my mates like them better :huh:


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## tangent (26/2/07)

> I reckon good beers can be made with kits/extract


maybe dark beers



> still throw down heaps of kits and my mates like them better


amazing what free beer does to taste buds


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## jayse (26/2/07)

KK would be Kerry King :super:


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## Fingerlickin_B (26/2/07)

tangent said:


> maybe dark beers


Ok, I agree there. 



tangent said:


> amazing what free beer does to taste buds


Yeah, that's what I thought until I got offered money for a batch h34r: 

Kit beers when done well totally whomp the arse of most of the generic megaswill offerings, and you can't argue with that  



PZ.


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## Brewtus (26/2/07)

Sadly I ran out the other day and bought a megaswill to tied me over. On Sunday I was passing plonks in manuka and they had some 'Green star'. Tried one, unfiltered, unpasteurized, no preservatives (cept alcohol), tasted like good home brew.


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## tangent (26/2/07)

> Kit beers when done well totally whomp the arse of most of the generic megaswill offerings, and you can't argue with that



Send me one of these magical K&K beers (and a Dodo and a picture of Bananarama naked while you're at it)

"Yeah, that's what I thought until I got offered money for a batch" - people pay for Crown Lager too.


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## Zierschy (26/2/07)

jayse said:


> KK would be Kerry King :super:



KK rocks Adelaide:

http://eventfeed.eventshop.com.au/public/h...php?itemid=4618


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## Fingerlickin_B (26/2/07)

tangent said:


> Send me one of these magical K&K beers (and a Dodo and a picture of Bananarama naked while you're at it)
> 
> "Yeah, that's what I thought until I got offered money for a batch" - people pay for Crown Lager too.



So you reckon a kit can't beat VB? That's what my mates drink...some of them even drink Pure Bland! :lol:   h34r: 

PZ. 

(my kits don't use "sugar")


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## tangent (26/2/07)

Yep
Get rid of that extract twang in a lager.


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## Fingerlickin_B (26/2/07)

Most VB lovers don't even know what they are drinking is in fact a lager (of sorts) and cringe when the lager suggestion comes up (unless it's a cat-piss-based Crownie) :lol:


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## tangent (27/2/07)

why people pay more for Crownies is beyond me....


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## Fingerlickin_B (27/2/07)

An unusually shaped bottle and gold trim will do wonders :lol:


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## Kingy (27/2/07)

cant drink vb since i starting brewing in october h34r: i wish i could change my name  and not lose my posting number count


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## glenos (27/2/07)

KINGVEEBEE said:


> cant drink vb since i starting brewing in october h34r: i wish i could change my name  and not lose my posting number count



You can, PM and ask an admin guy, their names are green or red (not sure which) in the online user box at the top of screen. Also check their description under their name.

I am an admin on another forum and I can change users names


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## randyrob (27/2/07)

KINGVEEBEE said:


> cant drink vb since i starting brewing in october h34r: i wish i could change my name  and not lose my posting number count




I assumed your old nick was just a piss take


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## HappyClem (27/2/07)

what about Krap Kwality?


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## Kingy (27/2/07)

nah my last name is king and i loved vb before i tasted my brews. hence "kingveebee" i was starting to get the shits with it and i felt embarresed :unsure: its all good now name has changed


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## jdsaint (27/2/07)

View attachment 11602
Maybe I should change my name to: mos-ated :lol: :lol: :unsure: 


I still enjoy a Carlton Draught as a alternitive to homebrew and I reckon anyone on this forum was offered FREE commercial beer they would drink it..............Beside's we are OZZY's most of us.


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## AngelTearsOnMyTongue (27/2/07)

tangent said:


> Send me one of these magical K&K beers (and a Dodo and a picture of Bananarama naked while you're at it)



For the newer forum members who are K&K, dont worry about Tangent. He is an AG religeous fanatic and wont hear a good word about K&K. 

Personally, as much as i would love to go K&K, and as often as i have been told that time and money is not an issue with AG, I just dont have that little extra time and money to make the jump.

Having said that. K&K definitely far exceeds any of the megaswill beers I am frequently offered by mates and cringe from now. Apart from having superior hop flavours (when additional hops are added to K&K), I dont have to put up with the dusty taste of formaldehyde that I can now clearly taste in megaswills.

Actually Tangent, why would I bother effin around with fermenting and bottling my own beers if it wasn't better than megaswill. Just because its cheaper?......no. Just because I love the fermenting process?....no.

No. I brew K&K (Rarely with a Kg of dextrose) because it brews a pretty nice beer compared to megaswill.

So to all the K&Kers. Be patient. Dont rush into AG just because you feel pressured. Enjoy the step from megaswill to K&K. Its a great place to learnand it will make the step to AG all the more gratifying. On the other hand, feel free to dive right into AG if thats your thing.

Me? Ge I enjoy my K&K hopped up beers.....and so do my mates.  Ill get to AG sometime.

ATOMT


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## jdsaint (27/2/07)

Got a good KK recipe than AngelTears?


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## tangent (27/2/07)

i'm willing to be converted
send me those miracle K&K beers


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## jdsaint (27/2/07)

tangent said:


> i'm willing to be converted
> send me those miracle K&K beers



Drinking 1 at the moment mmm mmm mmm beautiful True ale


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## tangent (27/2/07)

if you like it, that's all that matters!


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## AngelTearsOnMyTongue (27/2/07)

jdsaint said:


> Got a good KK recipe than AngelTears?



Not so much a recipe. I like faffing about with different hops and timings. Adjuncts and additives like crystal grain etc.

An easy one is to use a normal K&K recipe (eg Coopers Larger which can be bought at a supermarket even at 11:00 at night) but instead of adding it all to the fermenter, add the can to a pot with about 1 litre of boiling water. Bring to the boil but be careful it doesnt boil over when it does boil.

Add 25g of a bittering hop (Say Northern Brewers) for 20 - 25 mins. Then Just befor flameout, add say 20 g of a nice aromatic hop (My preferred is a Hallertau or a Saaz) and then turn off the flame, cover the pot and let it sit for about 20 - 30 mins. The wort should also cool down a bit in that time.

Add this to the fermenter and carry on as normal for a K&K.

Maybe nowhere as agood as an AG, but heaps better than megaswill and doesn't take too long.



tangent said:


> i'm willing to be converted
> send me those miracle K&K beers



No Miracle. Just better than megaswill. Not hard to do.  

ATOMT


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## kook (27/2/07)

AngelTearsOnMyTongue said:


> Enjoy the step from megaswill to K&K. Its a great place to learnand it will make the step to AG all the more gratifying. On the other hand, feel free to dive right into AG if thats your thing.



What about those who already have access to high quality beer and gain an interest in homebrewing?

I know of several people who were previously involved in the beer scene from a non-homebrew angle, and wanted to try creating similar beers to the ones they enjoy. It may be possible with some beers, but there are many that would be very hard to even come close with kits.


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## Steve Lacey (27/2/07)

I actually have a slight objection to the term K&K in the way it is being used these days, especially in this forum. I think when the term was first coined it was literally applied to the method of homebrewing that didn't involve any, or very little, departure from the kit maker's instructions. If you use a commercial 1.8-kg kit and a kilo of white sugar and the yeast under the lid, you are going to get beer that is a lot cheaper than megaswill, but to be honest, no better, probably worse. I'd take a Crown Lager over a beer made that way any day.

When you sub the sugar with dextrose, you get some improvement, but not a whole lot. Maybe you start to draw even with megaswill on the taste stakes. 

Start adding some finishing hops and replacing half the dextrose with malt extract, and ho ho ho, I think you have pulled ahead of the megswill. But use a good quality dry yeast appropriate to the style of beer and then you should definitely have pulled clear of the megaswill. Mind you, this is much easier to achieve for more robust beers than for delicate lagers, mainly because correct yeast/fermentation management becomes so critical.

Go further and repalce all the sugar with malt extract, use steeped specialty grains, liberal additions of finishing/dry hops, well-managed ferments with high-quality yeast, and you 1) should be making pretty darn good beer, and 2) Don't really deserve to be labelled with the perjorative term K&K. This is really the approach that is used by kit brewers who perform well in the home brew comps. It is simply wrong to refer to the beer as KK beer.

So how about referring to kit brewing unless you really want to mean "kit+kilo of sugar/dextrose and little else"?

FWIW.


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## AngelTearsOnMyTongue (27/2/07)

kook said:


> What about those who already have access to high quality beer and gain an interest in homebrewing?
> 
> I know of several people who were previously involved in the beer scene from a non-homebrew angle, and wanted to try creating similar beers to the ones they enjoy. It may be possible with some beers, but there are many that would be very hard to even come close with kits.



You'll get no argument from me there.


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## Fents (27/2/07)

Steve Lacey said:


> I actually have a slight objection to the term K&K in the way it is being used these days, especially in this forum. I think when the term was first coined it was literally applied to the method of homebrewing that didn't involve any, or very little, departure from the kit maker's instructions. If you use a commercial 1.8-kg kit and a kilo of white sugar and the yeast under the lid, you are going to get beer that is a lot cheaper than megaswill, but to be honest, no better, probably worse. I'd take a Crown Lager over a beer made that way any day.
> 
> When you sub the sugar with dextrose, you get some improvement, but not a whole lot. Maybe you start to draw even with megaswill on the taste stakes.
> 
> ...



That sounded perfect. I agree 100%. Nice write up. (altho im AG)


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## AngelTearsOnMyTongue (27/2/07)

Steve Lacey said:


> I actually have a slight objection to the term K&K in the way it is being used these days,...........................................................................
> ................................................................................
> ....................So how about referring to kit brewing unless you really want to mean "kit+kilo of sugar/dextrose and little else"?
> 
> FWIW.




Absolutely Steve. I agree.

Maybe they could be called KC's - "Kit Customisers".

ATOMT


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## tangent (27/2/07)

ATOMT you should get in touch with Lion Nathan, they'd probably love to know all that malt and hops are going to waste when they could just be using tins for an equal result.


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## AngelTearsOnMyTongue (27/2/07)

tangent said:


> ATOMT you should get in touch with Lion Nathan, they'd probably love to know all that malt and hops are going to waste when they could just be using tins for an equal result.



Huh? Im sorry, I dont follow you tangent. Can you rephrase that?


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## Avit (27/2/07)

Steve Lacey said:


> I actually have a slight objection to the term K&K in the way it is being used these days, especially in this forum. I think when the term was first coined it was literally applied to the method of homebrewing that didn't involve any, or very little, departure from the kit maker's instructions. If you use a commercial 1.8-kg kit and a kilo of white sugar and the yeast under the lid, you are going to get beer that is a lot cheaper than megaswill, but to be honest, no better, probably worse. I'd take a Crown Lager over a beer made that way any day.
> 
> When you sub the sugar with dextrose, you get some improvement, but not a whole lot. Maybe you start to draw even with megaswill on the taste stakes.
> 
> ...



This post pretty much outlines my thoughts on my limited brewing thus far. Generally what i have done so far is pretty ordinary, definitely not as good as megaswill. But i am keeping the faith, I have just brewed my first 'all malt extract' with some specialty grains and hops and cant wait to see the results. Im positive this will be better than megaswill.


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## FazerPete (27/2/07)

Fents said:


> That sounded perfect. I agree 100%. Nice write up. (altho im AG)



I absolutely agree as well. I must admit that I get a bit tired of the AG guys hanging it on the people that want to use kits. What's it got to do with anybody else if you are happy with the beer you are making whatever the methods used. I make my beer to my taste with and enjoy the option of using different hops and extracts to play around with flavours without the need to lose my entire weekend doing it. I consider the Muntons Scottish Ale I just finished off as one of the best beers I've ever tasted and it took me less than an hour to make it. If you get off on the hours of work doing an AG then great but everyone has their own priorities and tastes.

Forums like this should be supportive of all brewers no matter what their experience or taste in beer. I left another forum because the more experienced members were jumping all over anyone that didn't make beer exactly to their tastes (crystal clear lagers) and were actually on the verge of being offensive. I reckon AHB is a great forum and has a good source of information but can we keep it positive please.


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## Mr Bond (27/2/07)

AngelTearsOnMyTongue said:


> For the newer forum members who are K&K, dont worry about Tangent. He is an AG religeous fanatic and wont hear a good word about K&K.



I think he is also an excellent fisherman who has his tounge in his cheek,and gets plenty of bites from sensitive types.


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## AngelTearsOnMyTongue (27/2/07)

Brauluver said:


> I think he is also an excellent fisherman who has his tounge in his cheek,and gets plenty of bites from sensitive types.



I too had tongue in cheek when referring to Tangent in this light. I can assure you, I laugh (as against shed a tear)at this lively banter as should we all.


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## tangent (27/2/07)

:beer:


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## Mr Bond (27/2/07)

ROFLMAO


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