# 3-ring Burner Natural Gas Conversion



## T.D. (6/6/07)

Hi all,

This morning I had mains gas installed into my brewery. I also had a hot water tap put in just next to my HLT. This has pretty much solved two of the biggest hassles in brewing - refilling LPG gas bottles, and running the hose 10m from the tap to my HLT and then bolting to the tap like a madman when the water reaches the right level! :lol: :super: 

I thought I'd post a bit of a rundown on what I got done, in case any other brewers have been tossing up the option of doing the same. Given that my 3 ring was set up for LPG, I had to get the jets drilled out. I figured it might be handy to have an LPG burner on hand so I bought a new one and had that converted. The conversion cost $22 at a local gas shop (called Living Gas in Brookvale - 'no affiliation' and all that).

For a long time I didn't think a 3 ring could be used with natural gas. So for anyone who was under the same impression, its definitely possible!

Below are some pics of the new setup. Here's to no more refilling gas bottles!! :beer:  


Here is the burner with the mains connection. It still needs a reg (just below the ball valve on the wall), but the plumber installed one as part of the job. Alternatively, the gas place I went to had a "conversion kit" that included new jets, hoses and reg for $80.




Here is my whole setup. The hot water tap is on the right. The hot water heater is literally on the other side of the wall so the water is hot almost immediately! Sweet!!



And here's the 3-ring in action. To the naked eye I think the flame is even better on NG than it was on LPG! Proof will be in the pudding though I guess when I brew next!


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## lucas (6/6/07)

Good stuff! make sure you post again after you've used it and let us know how it goes.

I'd imagine you'll be saving a bit of cash with that setup too. I'm sure that plumbed in natural gas would have to work out cheaper than $25+ for 8.5kg of LPG


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## warrenlw63 (6/6/07)

Looks da-bomb TD! :beerbang: 

I'll be thinking of you when I lug my 9kg cylinder to the servo tomorrow. <_< :lol: 

Warren -


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## T.D. (7/6/07)

lucas said:


> Good stuff! make sure you post again after you've used it and let us know how it goes.
> 
> I'd imagine you'll be saving a bit of cash with that setup too. I'm sure that plumbed in natural gas would have to work out cheaper than $25+ for 8.5kg of LPG



Will do Lucas, I might be able to squeeze in a brew on Monday. I'm itching to try it out - mainly to see how the intensity of the burner has changed now that its NG. I was always under the impression that the MJ rating fell a touch when using NG vs LPG, but having spoken to the plumber etc apparently it depends on the reg setting and pipe width etc. Has anybody else converted an LPG burner to NG? Have you noticed any difference in output?

Yeah, I think mains gas works out quite a bit cheaper than LPG. Can't remember the exact figures though. But then it will need to be cheaper to account for the outlay for the plumbing etc!


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## DJR (7/6/07)

Tim,

I worked it out and based on the MJ rating, a 9kg tank holds 36x9 MJ or 324 MJ. My AGL gas plan at home costs me 1.6c per MJ, so the equivalent of a 9kg gas bottle costs about $5.20. 

I get my bottles refilled for $14 which isn't half bad (4.3c per MJ), and get more than 10 batches from 1 refill as i use the inside gas stove to heat my sparge water, but i'd still save a couple of bucks per batch going to NG. If you were getting bottles refilled for $25 each like most here are though, you would save quite a lot - i would say if you got 6 batches from a 9kg tank you'd save about $3.30 per batch ($4.16 vs $0.86)


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## hughman666 (7/6/07)

T.D. said:


> Hi all,
> 
> This morning I had mains gas installed into my brewery. I also had a hot water tap put in just next to my HLT. This has pretty much solved two of the biggest hassles in brewing - refilling LPG gas bottles, and running the hose 10m from the tap to my HLT and then bolting to the tap like a madman when the water reaches the right level! :lol: :super:
> 
> I thought I'd post a bit of a rundown on what I got done, in case any other brewers have been tossing up the option of doing the same. Given that my 3 ring was set up for LPG, I had to get the jets drilled out. I figured it might be handy to have an LPG burner on hand so I bought a new one and had that converted. The conversion cost $22 at a local gas shop (called Living Gas in Brookvale - 'no affiliation' and all that).



Great news T.D. I have a 4 ring burner that I want to get onto mains gas. Can you be a bit more specific about getting the jets drilled out and the conversion process?

The one thing that irks me about brewing is the possibility of running out of gas mid-boil :blink:


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## T.D. (7/6/07)

DJR said:


> Tim,
> 
> I worked it out and based on the MJ rating, a 9kg tank holds 36x9 MJ or 324 MJ. My AGL gas plan at home costs me 1.6c per MJ, so the equivalent of a 9kg gas bottle costs about $5.20.
> 
> I get my bottles refilled for $14 which isn't half bad (4.3c per MJ), and get more than 10 batches from 1 refill as i use the inside gas stove to heat my sparge water, but i'd still save a couple of bucks per batch going to NG. If you were getting bottles refilled for $25 each like most here are though, you would save quite a lot - i would say if you got 6 batches from a 9kg tank you'd save about $3.30 per batch ($4.16 vs $0.86)



Thanks for the calculations DJR. $14 per bottle is a top deal! I was paying bloody $29 for swap and go! :angry: 

:lol: So at a saving of $3.30 per brew, it'll take around 100 brews to pay for the plumbing job!!  But I guess the hassle of having to get refills definitely has a price too. :super:


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## T.D. (7/6/07)

hughman666 said:


> Great news T.D. I have a 4 ring burner that I want to get onto mains gas. Can you be a bit more specific about getting the jets drilled out and the conversion process?
> 
> The one thing that irks me about brewing is the possibility of running out of gas mid-boil :blink:



Yeah, I must say that's something that confused me a bit. The "conversion kit" that the gas place I went to sells includes new jets that are meant for NG. But I think this kit is primarily designed for bbqs. When the guy was actually talking about converting the burner over he mentioned "drilling out" the current jets so I'm not really sure whether its a matter of replacing the jets with ones made for NG, or just modifying the original LPG jets. I was told that pretty much any gas fitter can do the modification so it seems to be a fairly standard process. I reckon if you called a gas fitter they'd probably tell you what the modification involves. Sorry I don't have much more info than that!

Yeah, running out of gas mid boil is not much fun. Will be great not to have to worry about that! :beerbang:


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## Andyd (7/6/07)

TD, 

I'd love to hear from you what the time difference is for getting up a rolling boil...

Andy


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## T.D. (7/6/07)

No worries Andy, I'll try and brew on Monday so I'll post the results then. I usually have the burner on during the sparge and regulate it so I am coming to the boil as the sparge finishes so it might be a bit hard to get an idea of the difference in time it takes to reach the boil. But I should be able to tell from the vigor of the boil if its a hotter or cooler flame.


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## lokpikn (7/6/07)

Hey ya TD

Thats a good idea running some hot water to the brew house. I have thought of this a few times as i would like to use some hot water in my HLT to speed up the process. 
Is this what you are looking at doing ?
I was worried that the hot tap water might leave some off flavours behind.
My only thinking behind this is that isf i make a cupa with hot tap water it is not as good as if i make it with cold water i think there may be something in the heater that leaves some off flavours behind.



Lokpikn 




ps:spellig erroers i kow


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## Andyd (7/6/07)

I've considered putting a small instant HW system into the brewery... might cost less than running insulated copper in...

Probablyh also minimises the effect of off flavors, since the water's in contact with the heater for a minimal amount of time...


Andy


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## Benniee (7/6/07)

Looks good TD, although I'm a bit confused as to why a regulator is needed for the gas supply. Did you question your plumber about this one?

I'm doing a similar setup with a 32 jet mongolian burner and my plumber reckons it should be fine to run off the pressure in my delivery lines (ie. regulated from the gas meter at the front of my house). I have a gas, instant hot water heater plumbed up directly to my gas supply and it operates fine.

As for the use of hot tap water when brewing I have been told that old tank type hot water heaters can develop a build-up in them and deliver water that is "harder" than the cold tap water - but if you've got an instant hot water heater like I have there should be no difference between the two.

Has anyone actually checked the difference between their hot and cold tap water?

Benniee


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## BrissyBrew (8/6/07)

Bennie

It depends on what pressure your getting from the street, older streets like mine have low pressure system. No regulator on the meter. This means supply capacity is restricted. I just spend $$$ on 32mm copper piping to feed my instant hot water, stove and in the future gas bbq.


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## Ross (8/6/07)

lokpikn said:


> Hey ya TD
> 
> Thats a good idea running some hot water to the brew house. I have thought of this a few times as i would like to use some hot water in my HLT to speed up the process.
> Is this what you are looking at doing ?
> ...



All my brewing water comes out the hot tap, not noticed an off taste yet - go for it  

++++

Nice work TD - I hate running out of gas & regularly do - especially as I do 2 to 4 brews at a time. Unfortunatley we don't have NG  otherwise I'd be ringing the plumber today...

Cheers Ross


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## T.D. (8/6/07)

lokpikn said:


> Hey ya TD
> 
> Thats a good idea running some hot water to the brew house. I have thought of this a few times as i would like to use some hot water in my HLT to speed up the process.
> Is this what you are looking at doing ?
> ...



G'day Lokpikn,

Yeah the hot water tap is to fill the HLT directly and get the ball rolling a bit quicker each brew day. In the last places I lived in I often used hot water in the same way and never came across any off flavours. One of those places had an instant hot water heater and the other had a tank type. My current place's heater also has a tank. I've never thought about it being an issue though. If I do notice any problems I'll let you know!


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## T.D. (8/6/07)

Benniee said:


> Looks good TD, although I'm a bit confused as to why a regulator is needed for the gas supply. Did you question your plumber about this one?
> 
> I'm doing a similar setup with a 32 jet mongolian burner and my plumber reckons it should be fine to run off the pressure in my delivery lines (ie. regulated from the gas meter at the front of my house). I have a gas, instant hot water heater plumbed up directly to my gas supply and it operates fine.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I did ask people about why I needed a reg. On the meter there is a dirty big reg that I presume keeps all the household gas lines pressurised at the same level, so assuming that is a decent enough pressure, you wouldn't think you'd need another reg. I asked the gas shop guy about that and he said that most of those appliances that use gas (heaters, stoves, hot water heaters etc) would have an in-built reg. But it did puzzle me as I was under the impression that if anything mains gas pressure was on the low side if anything, which makes a reg seem pretty worthless! Anyway, two gas people both said independently that I needed it, so I guess I do - maybe you need them in come areas and not in others???


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## T.D. (8/6/07)

Ross said:


> Nice work TD - I hate running out of gas & regularly do - especially as I do 2 to 4 brews at a time. Unfortunatley we don't have NG  otherwise I'd be ringing the plumber today...



Cheers Ross, yeah the convenience factor is probably the biggest thing for me. Makes the plumbing outlay worthwhile IMO. Bummer you don't have NG. Have you looked into bigger LPG cylinders? I had a look at these a while back and they seem to cost around the same as a 9kg bottle, which is a shame, but you would have a lot more peace of mind with the increased capacity!


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## Benniee (8/6/07)

BrissyBrew said:


> It depends on what pressure your getting from the street, older streets like mine have low pressure system. No regulator on the meter. This means supply capacity is restricted. I just spend $$$ on 32mm copper piping to feed my instant hot water, stove and in the future gas bbq.



Thanks for the info. I had to splash out the $$$ for the large diameter copper pipe as well, but I'm pretty sure I have a reg on my meter (I'll have to check when I get home tonight). But I do live in one of the older suburbs of Newcastle so who knows what sort of mains I have. I wonder if I can look it up online somewhere.

The cost of the copper pipe certainly adds up. All I need to do is duck around the corner of my house from where my instant hot water supply is (approximately 3-4m) and it's going to sting me around $200 to get it all plumbed in.

I'm getting a Stainless Steel fabricator I know to make up a custom stand for the burner/boiler combo so once it's done I'll post up some pics. 

Benniee


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## Barramundi (8/6/07)

cheaper or not cheaper its not often that the natural gas will run out mid boil like a 9kg bottle can often do.... thats one bonus thats not to be overlooked


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## DJR (8/6/07)

Barramundi said:


> cheaper or not cheaper its not often that the natural gas will run ouyt mid boil like a 9kg bottle can often do.... thats one bonus thats not to be overlooked



Yeah but having 2 bottles kills that risk, keep one full at all times and use the other, then if it runs out just switch them over.


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## T.D. (12/6/07)

For those who are interested, I brewed two batches yesterday using the new NG burner. The burner did seem to have a little less grunt than what I remember using the LPG version. For instance it too probably an extra 5-10mins to get to the boil (although it was a very cold day). To keep a good vigorous rolling boil I used to have the largest and smallest rings on. With the NG setup I needed to have the largest and middle rings on to get the same effect. So less grunt but not dramatically so.

Cheers,

TD :beer:


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## deebee (12/6/07)

Convenience is a big plus, just wondering about HWS water in the mash tun. It would depend on what type of HWS you have, but I have a gas storage system and probably wouldnt run water from that into my mash tun. I looked inside an old one once and the things are pretty messy. Corrosion in all colours of the rainbow, also some dark evil-looking slimy stuff. After that, I wouldnt drink water from one. A friend told me she analysed HWS water for a lab project at uni and it was significantly harder than tap water and had a much higher microbe count. Might not have the same issues with instant hot water or with a newer system though.


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## DJR (12/6/07)

I've got a nice big gas-fired HWS that is fairly new - so last night i cheated and used the water from that for the mash and sparge water. As a taste experiment i got 2 glasses of water from the tap - one hot, one cold, left them for a while to equalise the temperature, and couldn't tell the difference.

Proof is in the pudding however, i'll have to see how the batch turns out.


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## Cortez The Killer (13/6/07)

I was tempted to use hot tap water on the weekend 

But I chickened out  

Hopefully at the new place I'll get one of the those on the fly hot water systems or even better natural gas connections near enough to the brewing

Cheers


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## T.D. (13/6/07)

If the water's a bit harder than usual that doesn't worry me much, as I like the character that hard water gives a beer. The microbe factor is a little more worrying, but its all pre-boil so those little buggers won't stand a chance!


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## KoNG (13/6/07)

T.D. said:


> For those who are interested, I brewed two batches yesterday using the new NG burner. The burner did seem to have a little less grunt than what I remember using the LPG version. For instance it too probably an extra 5-10mins to get to the boil (although it was a very cold day). To keep a good vigorous rolling boil I used to have the largest and smallest rings on. With the NG setup I needed to have the largest and middle rings on to get the same effect. So less grunt but not dramatically so.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> TD :beer:



Sounds good T.D.
10 minutes is hardly anything to worry about..! i guess if you are for some reason in a crazy rush, you could still use your LPG setup anyways. win/win.

Still not as fancy as my 15L ally pot HLT with instantanious how water and stove top heating system...! B)


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