# Brewing With Stevia



## Bongchitis (18/12/09)

G'Day all,

I have been growing and using stevia on and off for a couple of years and I was always dissapointed at the results. Always a grassy and bitter aftertaste that I simply couldn't get past :icon_vomit: . Then I started doing some research and found that there are 4 sweet compounds in stevia with one in particular, Rebaudioside A also known as Rebiana, being the sweetest and least bitter. So I looked around for a stevia extract with high levels of this compound and found some on E-Bay, so I took a punt and bought 100g which will probably last me for 10 years!

Anyway, it is supposed to be 300 X the sweetness of sugar. I don't think so. I did some calculations and prepared a standard solution where 2 drops from a dropper yeilded the same sweetness as 1 tsp (~5g) of sugar and tried it side by side with 200ml of water with 5g sugar dissolved.

Firstly, it is a different kind of sweetness, not as full in the mouth for lack of a better term and does not have the same 'body' that a sugar solution does. I had to double the dose to 4 drops to get a sort of equivalent sweetness but the best thing was there was not a hint of bitterness and virtually no aftertaste, even at the increased dose. Bloody fantastic. Just made a cup of tea with 4 drops and you could barely tell, I might try it with my wife and see if she picks it.

The initial testing showed that it is more likely 150 - 200 times as sweet as sugar, but you are not comparing apples to apples as it has different sensory properties and when put in different things will obviously behave differently.

All in all a great product once you do some work to find out the sweetness levels. Just wanted to share as I had been frustrated for years with artificial sweetners and now seem to have come across something with a bit of merit.

Now I will be able to brew Hard Cider, Ginger Beer and Lemonade without them being dry as a nuns nasty and having to back sweeten. Recipe development is in order but it will work in time. Very pleased.

Cheers.........Bongchitis


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## zephon (18/12/09)

I'll be interested to hear about your results. I have a batch of lemonade in bottles at the moment that was sweetened with Stevia but I don't think the amounts I used are quite right because it's still pretty dry.


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## Tim (18/12/09)

I find back sweetening my dry ciders with sucralose gives the best results. I just use splenda. It adds a bit of body due to maltodextrin, but doesn't contribute any flavours.


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## jonocarroll (18/12/09)

simma said:


> I'll be interested to hear about your results. I have a batch of lemonade in bottles at the moment that was sweetened with Stevia but I don't think the amounts I used are quite right because it's still pretty dry.


That lemonade of yours is better with the extra tablet of stevia, but I still reckon it's contributing some odd flavours, not just sweetness.

I was very happy with a kit ginger beer I did a while ago (still getting orders to make more) and I think the trick was to increase all of the flavours (heaps of real ginger, some spices, etc) - the strong ginger kick in mine covered up the 'sweetener' taste but kept the sweetness.


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## zephon (18/12/09)

QuantumBrewer said:


> That lemonade of yours is better with the extra tablet of stevia, but I still reckon it's contributing some odd flavours, not just sweetness.



Agreed, I'm not a fan of my current batch ... but I'm not writing stevia off just yet as I can't be sure that the "odd flavours" aren't something else. 

Before I brewed the lemonade I tried a simple drink of lemon juice, water and stevia which was quite nice. I could probably sell it as a lemon detox on late night TV.

I suspect the yeast/ferment.

Next time I'm going to do a side by side comparison of stevia and sugar (back sweetened in the glass). Unfortunately I didn't think to leave a couple of bottles of the current batch unsweetened to try this.

Not going to go near the artificial sweetners though. have read some unsettling things about splenda and the likes.

Anyway, didn't want to hijack this thread. I will be eagerly anticipating some recipes Bongchitis. Keep us updated.


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## jonocarroll (18/12/09)

simma said:


> I could probably sell it as a lemon detox on late night TV.


 :lol: 



simma said:


> I suspect the yeast/ferment.


Likely. There's a lot that can go different for lemonade, I believe.



simma said:


> Not going to go near the artificial sweetners though. have read some unsettling things about splenda and the likes.


You mean Equal (aspartame)? Splenda's fine. Coca-Cola is shifting all of its products over to splenda given the outrage in the states over aspartame effects, despite the effects only being seen in rats at a doses equivalent to drinking tens of liters of 'diet' drinks a day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy

Go figure.

In the (approximate) words of Dr. Cox from Scrubs: I love this stuff so much, I don't care if it gives my cancers cancer.


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## zephon (18/12/09)

QuantumBrewer said:


> You mean Equal (aspartame)? Splenda's fine. Coca-Cola is shifting all of its products over to splenda given the outrage in the states over aspartame effects, despite the effects only being seen in rats at a doses equivalent to drinking tens of liters of 'diet' drinks a day.



Splenda's got it's fair share of contreversy too:

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=splenda+poison

I read enough when researching what to use in the lemonade to decide against using it but I don't know enough to argue strongly either way.


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## geoffd (18/12/09)

Bongchitis said:


> The initial testing showed that it is more likely 150 - 200 times as sweet as sugar, but you are not comparing apples to apples as it has different sensory properties and when put in different things will obviously behave differently.



Interesting point on the sensory properties, as we all have different sensory abilities, it may be that to you personally it may seem like 200:1 but possibly to someone else maybe 400:1
Perhaps your ability to taste particular compounds is muted & hence your perception that it's lower than the 300:1 guideline.

Same applies to smokers (muted sensory perception), really shows up in the comp judging sheets from time to time.


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## Renegade (18/12/09)

So what about an extraction, either A/B or simple acetone wash, might that isolate the 'sweet' alkaloids?


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## Bongchitis (18/12/09)

QuantumBrewer said:


> That lemonade of yours is better with the extra tablet of stevia, but I still reckon it's contributing some odd flavours, not just sweetness.
> 
> I was very happy with a kit ginger beer I did a while ago (still getting orders to make more) and I think the trick was to increase all of the flavours (heaps of real ginger, some spices, etc) - the strong ginger kick in mine covered up the 'sweetener' taste but kept the sweetness.




Yeah the increasing the flavour thing works. I will be using a combination of Lactose, DME, Brown sugar etc for a more multidimensional sweetness to mask the stevia somewhat. The stevia does have a 'flavour' as such but the recent purchase is far more neutral than others I have tried.

My recent ciders came in at FG=1007 so I might try more malt, steeping some light crystal for more sweetness and some maltodextrin for body plus of course the stevia. Aiming at FG=1010-1012 from 1050.

I will bottle these 2 batches of cider I have with stevia added with the Apple juice for priming but the intent is to add a gram or two at the end of the adjunct/nutrient boil pre ferment.

I might try various levels of stevia at bottling to sus out the best level of addition and post the results in 2 months when ready.


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## Bongchitis (18/12/09)

Father Jack said:


> Interesting point on the sensory properties, as we all have different sensory abilities, it may be that to you personally it may seem like 200:1 but possibly to someone else maybe 400:1
> Perhaps your ability to taste particular compounds is muted & hence your perception that it's lower than the 300:1 guideline.
> 
> Same applies to smokers (muted sensory perception), really shows up in the comp judging sheets from time to time.




True about the sensory variations between people. You can't account for taste!.I have done triangular sensory trials on Ice-cream at work and people perceive things very differently, and express them differently again.

I am a non smoker but I know what you mean. I suppose as long as the cider doesn't taste like arse and is reproducable then all is well irrespective of the theoretical sweetnes ratio. I do think you would need to establish some theoretical measure though to base your recipes on.

Looks promising all the same.


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## Tim (18/12/09)

It is *rumoured* that artificial sweetners cause cancer. It is *fact *that natural sugar causes diabetes.

edit: changed tense


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## Fatgodzilla (18/12/09)

:icon_offtopic: 

All I want to say is WTF is stevia ? Never heard of it.

:icon_offtopic:


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## pdilley (18/12/09)

Stevia is a natural ultra-sweet herb that being plant based can be used in place of sugar for sweetening dietetic foods. It was banned in the USA brought on by the artificial-sweetener companies trying to protect their local market strong hold and a large effort from the public was required to make it legal again. It became big in Japan displacing the artificial-sweetener companies offerings for beverages, etc.

It would make a good use in brewing for sweeting up dry ferments as it has no fermentable sugars in it and has been on my mind but I have not had the time or stevia on hand to play with. You can get it in powder form or in liquid form from a health food shop, or alternatively provided its not illegal you can grow it in your garden and just use it in leaf form. Chewing on the leaf you will be amazed at how much sweeter than sugar it is. I forget all the estimates but it was 200? times sweeter gram for gram of powder extract than sugar.

Unlike artificial sweeteners which have heal side effects you can heat stevia to cook with it and its a big plus for diabetics. Heat up most artificial sweeteners and you might end up dead. You can dig up old stories of refrigeration failures on trucks and large soda companies having to dump entire truckloads of diet sodas down the drain.

I used to grow it overseas but have not found it available in any nurseries I visited in Oz.




It is something I would like to get into growing some more of again as its a lovely plant. When I first learned about it use for sweetening Yerba Mate in South America I ended up growing it and trying Yerba Mate a tea like alternative drunk in South America (can't recommend it, tastes like arse to me - The Yerba Mate that is).

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## glaab (18/12/09)

Tim said:


> It is *fact *that natural sugar causes diabetes.



Poppycock!!, you best stick to selling snickers bars foo!


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## geoffd (21/12/09)

Brewer Pete said:


> I used to grow it overseas but have not found it available in any nurseries I visited in Oz.
> Cheers,
> Brewer Pete



Hi Pete, I got some seeds from the Diggers catalogue, +-$4 for 15 seeds in a packet, like bloody gold ounces!
Seeds are expensive as the plants are hard to pollinate, & often many of the seeds are unviable. From memory there is a marked improvement in germination rates from the dark to black seeds than from the lighter brown ones.

Not sure what Canberra climate is like for growing Stevia, They like warm humid conditions & are very frost sensitive. I grew one last year, it did okay & survived the winter in Melbourne & is starting to shoot again after a prolonged battle with slugs & snails.

Tip of the day: always keep your veggie seeds under 30 degrees, If its a hot day, stick them in the fridge (i use a metal biscuit tin that has a pretty good seal)


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## Bongchitis (22/12/09)

Thanks Pete,

I should have put a bit of background info up at the start, nicely done!

It seems a funny sort of plant, grows a bit like mint in that you can decimate whatever is above ground and will continue to shoot. Very hardy root system but it seems to be the first plant to wilt on a hot day. Hardy yet delicate if you catch my drift. Loves water.

I took a sample of cider as per franko's recipe and 4766 yeast and sweetened it unscientifically, a pinch, with the powder. Tastes awesome! ... and it isn't even out of the fermenter yet. Will bottle today once I sort out a standard solution.

Sweet!...........yes a bad pun.


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## komodo (25/6/10)

How redily available is Stevia?
Where do i get it from?


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (25/6/10)

Tim said:


> It is *rumoured* that artificial sweetners cause cancer. It is *fact *that natural sugar causes diabetes.
> 
> edit: changed tense



Natural sugar doesn't cause diabetes. 

I have a two year old type 1 diabetic (and a younger sister that also has it). Type 1 is a hereditary autoimmune deficiency (with polygenic properties) with a (usually) viral trigger that stops the pancreas from producing the required amount of insulin to process carbohydrates (simple and complex) into cell energy.

Type 2 diabetes is fat, lazy people with poor diet that bring it upon themselves and don't deserve their "illness" to be called diabetes. (aka: the American fast food, soda and candy diet). The only way natural sugar gets involved is that overconsumption of foods containing it is one of manner triggers for Type 2. Overconsumption of anything is generally never healthy.

Sorry to be off topic, but the amount of misinformation about diabetes out there is staggering. And the prejudice out there against type 1 diabetics (and their parents) really upsets me. I have to inject a 2 year old with 5 needles a day and strictly monitor blood sugar levels and diet to keep her otherwise healthy, and frequently get the treatment from ignorant bozos out there that it's my fault and I must be a neglectful parent because she has this condition. The only way it is my fault is that the polygenic causing it seem to run in my family. :angry: 

</off topic>


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## pdilley (25/6/10)

Free Stevia cuttings were given out at one of our local beekeeper meetings as the members are also members of the Organic Growers Society as well. Most people took a cutting and none were left by the time it came back. I wasn't worried as I knew the difficulty growing in this climate.

If I can ever get my building supply company to get an arse on with my building design I could see if I have enough in the budget to build the north facing sunroom and if so, then all the frost sensitive plants go in there to grow including some more stevia.

Its not sugar, so it won't burn or do browning for baking so thats a down side if you bake a lot. Otherwise its great.


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


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## Bongchitis (29/6/10)

Komodo said:


> How redily available is Stevia?
> Where do i get it from?




Get a plant from your local nursery or some extracts from your local health food store but both these options proved less than adequate for brewing due to the bitter aftertaste produced. The extract that I aquired from ebay is excellent in sweetness and flavour, details in the 1st couple of posts of this thread.

Have recently found that combining stevia extract and sucralose (splenda) works fantastically well at sweetening cider and will use this combo for ginger beer and lemonade etc.


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## bum (29/6/10)

There are quite a few stevia extract options in supermarkets these days too. Dunno how suitable any of them are for brewing, however.


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## graffix (29/6/10)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Type 2 diabetes is fat, lazy people with poor diet that bring it upon themselves and don't deserve their "illness" to be called diabetes. (aka: the American fast food, soda and candy diet). The only way natural sugar gets involved is that overconsumption of foods containing it is one of manner triggers for Type 2. Overconsumption of anything is generally never healthy.





Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Sorry to be off topic, but the amount of misinformation about diabetes out there is staggering. And the prejudice out there against type 1 diabetics (and their parents) really upsets me.



Who dares to propagate this prejudice and misinformation!?


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## Bongchitis (30/6/10)

Yeah they are pretty much the same brands that the Health food stores stock... and then you have the spoon for spoon stuff that is blended with maltodextrin et al but they all have that aftertaste. 4-5 brands tried until I got tired of the shitty results and did some research into the super sweet and non bitter components of stevia and bought an extract high in this compound/s.

If artificial sweetening is your thing for whatever reason then this type of extract is the only one fit for the purpose of brewing IMHO.





bum said:


> There are quite a few stevia extract options in supermarkets these days too. Dunno how suitable any of them are for brewing, however.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (30/6/10)

graffix said:


> Who dares to propagate this prejudice and misinformation!?



Answer: Tim

It is rumoured that artificial sweetners cause cancer. It is fact that natural sugar causes diabetes.

</endquote>

Absolute falsehood.

When I say that my 2 year old has diabetes and needs needles, I often get responses that indicate the respondee thinks:

1. It's my fault as her parent - as this is a lifestyle illness (when type 1 isn't, whereas type 2 is) - i.e. she has it because we eat garbage food and drink garbage drink (which we don't)
2. I'm cruel for giving her five needles a day, because surely a tablet will do the trick (whereas tablets are again type 2 medication to stimulate a still working pancreas), not insulin directly into the body to compensate for one that doesn't work.
3. It will go away, or can be cured with appropriate dietary measures (which it can't, though meticulous monitoring of diet is a daily requirement).

Sorry to the small number of type 2'ers who have it because there is a family history and try to do the right thing or are just plain old. My comments are directed to the under 40 year old type 2 diabetics who have this illness because they choose it as part of their lifestyle.

And yes, over consumption of beer may be a cause of type 2, so moderation!


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## freezkat (27/2/12)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Answer: Tim
> 
> It is rumoured that artificial sweetners cause cancer. It is fact that natural sugar causes diabetes.
> 
> ...






Sugar causes an insulin reaction. The more you work out your pancreas... the worse.

From what I have seen on TV and read in leaflets from my doctor and webmd (not community answer forums) there is an increased risk of pancreatic cancer.


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## Brynz54 (29/11/16)

Komodo said:


> How redily available is Stevia?
> Where do i get it from?


Coles, Woolworths right next to the sugar. Brand name Natvia. It comes in granulated form. If you want to use a large quantity you can get 20 Kg in liquid form. (Google is your friend)


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## LAGERFRENZY (29/11/16)

Greased Lightning reply sir. You the man.


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## Rocker1986 (29/11/16)

Natural sugar is a bit of a stupid term as well. All sugar is natural; regardless of the level of processing it might end up going through, it all comes from a natural source in the beginning and doesn't get turned into "synthetic" sugar at any point.


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## good4whatAlesU (30/11/16)

I work in sugar cane a bit and can certify it's pretty evil stuff. Leaves are amazingly sharp like razor blades and lined with little spurs that dig into your skin.

When we go in there to work we wear face-shields, full overalls and gloves. It's frickin horrible.


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