# Aussie Pale Ale



## Back Yard Brewer (6/1/09)

Was wondering whether someone can link me to a thread for making an Aussie pale. Better still post some recipes on this thread. I have a recipe which calls for Pale Crystal Malt which is pretty self explanatory. The only thing is that I rang a HBS and they confused the hell out of me. When I asked whether they had pale crystal (100ebc) they suggested that I could use caramalt to name just one grain. IMHO I thought if I asked for pale crystal such a Bairds that my return answer would be simple :unsure: Also I want to steer clear of dry yeast or culturing coopers from the bottle. Maybe a nutural type liquid yeast if there is such a thing? Currently have some 1272, 1084, 1469 & 1026. Have plenty of POR.

BYB


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## fraser_john (6/1/09)

Tonys ale recipe is pretty good linky

Substitute dry yeast for liquid american ale or other nuetral and you should be ok!


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## Tony (6/1/09)

too easy

1st place in international ale at NSW state comp a couple of years back. So simple it hurts

95% ale malt for a maltier beer or pils for a lighter beer like coopers, (50/50 ale pils works well!)
5% wheat malt

1.048, 27IBU

10 IBU POR FWH
17 IBU POR 45 min to go

you could add 1/2g per liter at flame out of Saaz if you like. I use POR at flame out as well.

mash cool at 64 and use a good clean dry yeast like 1275 or 1272 at 18 deg. US-05 will work well too.

like i said..... too easy!

Its so easy it works.


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## Back Yard Brewer (6/1/09)

fraser_john said:


> Tonys ale recipe is pretty good linky
> 
> Substitute dry yeast for liquid american ale or other nuetral and you should be ok!




Looks like the goods but was wondering what would be the ideal grain to make it a little darker? I have got plenty of medium crystal. A slight addition of medium crystal would be some where to start?

BYB


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## buttersd70 (6/1/09)

fwiw, if you want to darken it a little, you could go a bit of medium crystal, or some crystal and a third or half as much again choc (or one of it's varients), to add a dry counterpoint to any sweetness the crystal might give....say, 3% crystal, 1-1.5% choc or carafa. All subject to ish.


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## boingk (6/1/09)

Heres another one from the recipe db that supposedly has inside info from the Coopers brewery. Link.

Looks alright, I'd go there but I don't have an AG setup. Might have to wait for my first BIAB hey?

Cheers - boingk


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## pint of lager (6/1/09)

Tony's recipe is on the money. No need to add crystal malt to a good recipe. 

Crystal is a great grain for kits and bits, but it is not needed in a good ag brew. Leave the crystal out. Let the base grains shine.

If you want to darken the colour, add 50 gms of black grain.

Be very very careful with your POR, make sure it is fresh.


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## SJW (6/1/09)

If u want it darker this was great. More like Toohey Old, (but better)  

#78 Dads Black 
Schwarzbier (Black Beer) 


Type: All Grain
Date: 29/11/2008 
Batch Size: 30.00 L
Brewer: Stephen Wright 
Boil Size: 36.76 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 75 min Equipment: My Gear 
Taste Rating(out of 50): 0.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 84.00 
Taste Notes: 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
5000.00 gm Pale Ale Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.9 EBC) Grain 83.33 % 
500.00 gm Caraaroma (Weyermann) (350.7 EBC) Grain 8.33 % 
500.00 gm Chocolate Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (475.0 EBC) Grain 8.33 % 
20.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [9.20 %] (60 min) Hops 15.1 IBU 
10.00 gm Pride of Ringwood [9.20 %] (1 min) Hops 0.3 IBU 
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
11.00 gm PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1007 Wyeast ESB


Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.052 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.051 SG 
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.014 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.95 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.82 % 
Bitterness: 15.4 IBU Calories: 481 cal/l 
Est Color: 49.3 EBC Color: Color 


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Light Body Total Grain Weight: 6000.00 gm 
Sparge Water: 17.77 L Grain Temperature: 20.0 C 
Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C TunTemperature: 20.0 C 
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH 

Single Infusion, Light Body Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
75 min Mash In Add 15.00 L of water at 71.8 C 65.0 C 
10 min Mash Out Add 10.00 L of water at 95.0 C 76.0 C


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## Tony (6/1/09)

OR try some of that Super Pride thats now available.

I have some but havnt tried it yet.

Will in the next couple of brews to see what its like.

cheers

Edit: JW ale malt is a fairly dark ale malt and will give the beer a nice deep golden colour..... around the 9 to 10 EBC mark as aposed to the 7ish that Coopers is (to my eye)


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## mika (6/1/09)

While there's no need to add Crystal, I think you could make a nice beer with 95% Ale and 5% Crystal or so. Don't know that it would come out light enough for an Aussie Pale ale. Certainly would work well in an American style.

Tony- With a mash temp of 64degs, what sort of FG are you getting ?


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## Tony (6/1/09)

depends on the yeast! Us-05 will go down to 1.006 but 1272 or 1275 will stop at around 1.008 or 10.

The beer i sent to the comp a few years back was fermenter with 1318 and all judges commented it needed more attenuation and a drier finnish. It pulled up at 1.012 with a 66 deg mash from memory

HEre is a picture of one i made last summer with JW ale malt. It was fantastic and you certanly wouldnt need crystal in it. It was vary malty and flavourful but so easy to drink. It was a sad day the keg ran dry.

One last note. An Aussie ale should be simple. So simple it looks like it will be boring. You add interest by using good ingredients, fresh hops and good yeast thats fermented nice and cool for that wonderful quenching finnish and ease of pour down the throat if you know what i mean.

Edit: I have read that coopers start their beer at 1.03 something and finnish it down around 1.002. May not be true but its what i have heard

Maybe a coopers brewery lurker (i know they are out there) could enlighten us?

This one was a single malt job.


Bulls Tail Pale Ale

A ProMash Brewing Session - Recipe Details Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 54.00 Wort Size (L): 54.00
Total Grain (kg): 11.00
Anticipated OG: 1.048 Plato: 12.02
Anticipated EBC: 9.8
Anticipated IBU: 27.8
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
100.0 11.00 kg. JWM Traditional Ale Malt Australia 1.038 7

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
18.00 g. Pride of Ringwood (whole) Whole 9.60 8.7 First WH
40.00 g. Pride of Ringwood (whole) Whole 9.60 16.9 45 min.
24.00 g. Pride of Ringwood (whole) Whole 9.60 2.2 5 min.



Yeast
-----

US-05


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## Hutch (6/1/09)

BYB - go the 1469 yeast :beerbang: 
That's my $0.02.


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## Steve (6/1/09)

Tony said:


> that wonderful quenching finnish and ease of pour down the throat if you know what i mean.



I can taste it now! Thanks Tony! Is it knock off time yet?
I wouldnt be putting crystal in it either. I do 95% Ale and 5% light crystal brews all the time and they are definately not Aussie Pale Ales. Keep it simple as has being said.
Cheers
Steve


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## Back Yard Brewer (6/1/09)

Tony said:


> depends on the yeast! Us-05 will go down to 1.006 but 1272 or 1275 will stop at around 1.008 or 10.
> 
> The beer i sent to the comp a few years back was fermenter with 1318 and all judges commented it needed more attenuation and a drier finnish. It pulled up at 1.012 with a 66 deg mash from memory
> 
> ...




Actually quite like the colour. The data base can be a little misleading with its colour projection.

BYB


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## Steve (6/1/09)

Back Yard Brewer said:


> Actually quite like the colour. The data base can be a little misleading with its colour projection.
> 
> BYB



Thats the colour I get when using Ale and Light Crystal. Its a beautiful colour for sure. She aint pale though. Why dont you do a couple? First up straight ale and then another with ale and crystal. Its all about experimenting and tweaking eh?
Cheers
Steve


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## Tony (6/1/09)

I was suprised at how dark that one came out. It was just strait JW Ale malt.

IMC ale which is much lighter makes a beer more like the Coopers stuff in colour.

A beer made with pils and 4% 140 EBC crystal will give you about 12 EBC.

I still recon a 50/50 pils/ale malt beer is great!

cheers


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## Bribie G (6/1/09)

pint of lager said:


> Tony's recipe is on the money. No need to add crystal malt to a good recipe.
> 
> Crystal is a great grain for kits and bits, but it is not needed in a good ag brew. Leave the crystal out. Let the base grains shine.
> 
> Be very very careful with your POR, make sure it is fresh.



Crystal malt was developed to darken and add flavour to English Bitters in the early 20th Century when the 'modern' quick fermenting -> into the cask -> off to the pub for cask conditioning beers became common. I use them in my UK bitters (Yorkshire Pennine and Burton Ale so far) and the crystal presents as a distinct 'note' in the finished beers. From what I have read they should not actually be added until very late in the mash as they don't need mashing as such and can contribute tannins if just added at dough-in. 

I can't see any need for them in Aussie Pale Ales as there's not a trace of it in beers such as Coopers, LCPA, etc ....different story for the dark Old Ales. I can pick up crystal in Toohey's Old.

Some UK breweries [edit: don't use crystal] but instead add a very small amount of black malts, for example Brakspear, whose beers I have drunk and they are copper coloured UK typical.

If looking for a bit of colour I'd go more for a _wee_ bit of Cararmoma or choc as suggested by previous posters.


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## Back Yard Brewer (6/1/09)

SJW said:


> If u want it darker this was great. More like Toohey Old, (but better)
> 
> #78 Dads Black
> Schwarzbier (Black Beer)
> ...



That is one fair hit of choclate there. Getting a tad off what I am looking for. Interesting recipe none the less.

BYB


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## Tony (6/1/09)

BribieG said:


> I can pick up crystal in Toohey's Old.



Tooheys old uses only 2 malts. A base malt and a specially kilned dark malt that is not available to us. Its darker than crystal, lighter than chocolate.

A Forum member got hold of some ages ago before he droped into my place for a brew day years ago. I agree it has a crystal character and also a chocolate character. I think the crystal character is actually sweetness from low bitterness. Not sure of the malts specs but there are other things out there custom made for breweries that we cant buy. 

Thats why its so hard to replicate comercial beers.

cheers


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## Back Yard Brewer (6/1/09)

Tony said:


> Thats why its so hard to replicate comercial beers.
> 
> cheers




Not that there is anything wrong with that.

BYB


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## Screwtop (6/1/09)

Here Andy Recipe

Cheers,

Screwy


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## SJW (6/1/09)

> That is one fair hit of choclate there. Getting a tad off what I am looking for. Interesting recipe none the less.
> 
> BYB


OH yes, It ain't no Pale Ale, but a very clean, dry black Aussie Lager all the same, and simple too!

Steve


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## bindi (6/1/09)

This is the winner IMHO............ Ash in Perth Pale ale.
I did up the grain bill, I am a lost cause :unsure: . Very nice beer.


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## Bribie G (6/1/09)

Tony said:


> Tooheys old uses only 2 malts. A base malt and a specially kilned dark malt that is not available to us.



 I suppose that's the case with a lot of commercial brews, for example Coopers real yeast, not the yeast in the bottles but the one they they actually use in their primary fermentation which is probably locked up tighter than fort Knox.......


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## Back Yard Brewer (8/1/09)

Tony said:


> too easy
> 
> 1st place in international ale at NSW state comp a couple of years back. So simple it hurts
> 
> ...




Ok have looked at several recipes :wacko: and reckon I will give this one a bash. Pardon my ignorance but why mash cool at 64c ?
I have noticed that a number of recipes use sugar as an addition as well. Not sure why someone would not just use straight malt. I have read articles that apparantly coopers use sugar. 
That being said I will stay clear of it. Reminds me to much of my can opener days with kits  

BYB


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## buttersd70 (8/1/09)

Back Yard Brewer said:


> Ok have looked at several recipes :wacko: and reckon I will give this one a bash. Pardon my ignorance but why mash cool at 64c ?
> I have noticed that a number of recipes use sugar as an addition as well. Not sure why someone would not just use straight malt. I have read articles that apparantly coopers use sugar.
> That being said I will stay clear of it. Reminds me to much of my can opener days with kits
> 
> BYB



The cooler mash and/or the sugar are both to allow the beer to attenuate further for a lower fg and a drier finish (I get the lower mash completely, but can't get my head around the need for sugar additions in a beer of fairly moderate OG, either).... Lots of sources say that coopers use sugar (and its also even listed on their website as a (possible) ingredient, but I think this might be a thing of the past...the brewers at Coopers responded to an email from Braufrau (edit: I think it was braufrau, but not 100% sure) about it, and stated that they don't use any sugar (at least in the Pale). They openly state that the Lager is brewed with no sugar. Will try to hunt up the link.

edit. Found the link. here. Definatively states that no sugar in pale other than prime, and up to 5% in sparkling at times depending on the quality of the malt. Also lays the old 'is the yeast in the bottle the primary strain' question to rest.


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## Back Yard Brewer (8/1/09)

buttersd70 said:


> (I get the lower mash completely, but can't get my head around the need for sugar additions in a beer of fairly moderate OG, either).... Lots of sources say that coopers use sugar (and its also even listed on their website as a (possible) ingredient, but I think this might be a thing of the past...
> 
> edit. Found the link. here. Definatively states that no sugar in pale other than prime, and up to 5% in sparkling at times depending on the quality of the malt. Also lays the old 'is the yeast in the bottle the primary strain' question to rest.




If they were using it at some stage all I could put it down to would be a cost saving measure. Compare a kg of sugar in price to what malt is.

BYB


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## Spartan 117 (8/1/09)

bindi said:


> This is the winner IMHO............ Ash in Perth Pale ale.
> I did up the grain bill, I am a lost cause :unsure: . Very nice beer.



Made a batch of this as my first all grain, turned out great pretty nice beer after it was chilled for a week or two 

Aaron


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## Bribie G (8/1/09)

>>>>> The same strain of 
>> > > yeast is used for seeding the bottles as for primary fermentation.

Well that deserves a thread all of its own, in fact probably a sticky to avoid the creation of twenty more threads over the next year or so "Can I use the yeast from a Coopers Bottle .........."


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## Back Yard Brewer (9/1/09)

OK guys and gals. Brewing to me is about utilising what you have on hand. ATM I have 1318,1272,1084,1469,1026 What are some thoughts on these?? Oh you can also throw in the wyeast cider yeast :lol: 

BYB


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## buttersd70 (9/1/09)

I think I'd probably go with 1026 for first choice, 1084 cool 2nd, 1272 third. I'd be steering away from the 1318 or 1469 ( :unsure: ) myself.

2c

edit..wyeasts blurb on 1026 actually reccomends it for Australian Ales....it seems to have the right characteristics for it....or you could always culture up a cpa.


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## Back Yard Brewer (9/1/09)

buttersd70 said:


> I think I'd probably go with 1026 for first choice, 1084 cool 2nd, 1272 third. I'd be steering away from the 1318 or 1469 ( :unsure: ) myself.
> 
> 2c
> 
> edit..wyeasts blurb on 1026 actually reccomends it for Australian Ales....it seems to have the right characteristics for it....or you could always culture up a cpa.




1084 cool 2nd. I had actually been steering towards that one. Have made some irish reds and the dry taste the 1084 imparts seemed to me to make more sense. The 1026 is still in a unsmacked pack, ATM that is  

BYB


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## buttersd70 (9/1/09)

it was a close run thing in my mind between 1026 and 1084...as you said, the dryness makes sense in this beer. I think either would be good


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## Tony (9/1/09)

1026 first and 1272 second. They look like the best options.

cheers


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## Thirsty Boy (9/1/09)

Sort of off topic, sort of on..

Not that anyone was ranting or anything... But why the antipathy towards sugar? Oh I get that using the amount that gets used in a K&K isn't the best... but sugar is a pretty damn traditional ingredient in Belgian and English brewing. An Aussie Pale is fundamentally a variation of an English Pale ale, so sugar is far from out of place.

If you are aiming for a really low FG - talking below 1.05, its going to be a struggle to make a "full strength" beer that's all grain and that dry.

Sugar is just another spanner in the brewers toolbox, if you use it properly in the appropriate situation, it can help you make better beer. Refusing to use it is just silly.

Not that I am saying you should or shouldn't use it in this case.... just that there is no even vaguely logical reason to not use it if that's what the recipe calls for.


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## buttersd70 (9/1/09)

Sugar in a belgian has its place, it plays an important function in the formation of the recipe, achieving the alcohol level, and achieving the required attenuation of such a big beer.

But sugar as a traditional ingredient in an English......I will go down to my last breath to debunk such nonsense. Sugar is, or was, used in English brewing, not as a necessary component, but as a cheap substitute due to cost of importation of sugar products from the colonies vs cost of grain, particularly given the crop failures of the late 19th century that resulted in the deaths of about a tenth of the population of north and west England, and up to a third in the Irish provinces, due to the government requisition of grain for importation to the mainland (particularly to the major centres and the Home counties).....following this, there were successive years of crop failure caused by drought and flood, increased flow of populace off the land and into the industrial centres, followed by 3 major wars and several minor ones, with a massive epidemic in between. (South africa, WW1, Russian Civil War, 1921 Influenza pandemic, and WW2 most noticably), which resulted in severe rationing, particularly from 1915 onwards. Rationing of grain products resulting from WW2 rationining laws was enforced in the UK untill the early 1950's.

In a beer of such moderate gravity, which is mashed in the middle to upper end of the sacchirification range, I can see no reason at all to use sugar adjuncts. It is not there to add flavour, it is not there to aid in attenuation, it is not there to add alcohol. It is there, because _at the time_ that it was common to use sugar in English brewing, it was because it was _cheap_. Sugar is traditionally used in English brewing purely as a matter of economy.


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## Back Yard Brewer (9/1/09)

MMMM two very interesting angles <_< 

BYB


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## raven19 (9/1/09)

buttersd70 said:


> Sugar in a belgian has its place, it plays an important function in the formation of the recipe, achieving the alcohol level, and achieving the required attenuation of such a big beer.
> 
> But sugar as a traditional ingredient in an English......I will go down to my last breath to debunk such nonsense. Sugar is, or was, used in English brewing, not as a necessary component, but as a cheap substitute due to cost of importation of sugar products from the colonies vs cost of grain, particularly given the crop failures of the late 19th century that resulted in the deaths of about a tenth of the population of north and west England, and up to a third in the Irish provinces, due to the government requisition of grain for importation to the mainland (particularly to the major centres and the Home counties).....following this, there were successive years of crop failure caused by drought and flood, increased flow of populace off the land and into the industrial centres, followed by 3 major wars and several minor ones, with a massive epidemic in between. (South africa, WW1, Russian Civil War, 1921 Influenza pandemic, and WW2 most noticably), which resulted in severe rationing, particularly from 1915 onwards. Rationing of grain products resulting from WW2 rationining laws was enforced in the UK untill the early 1950's.
> 
> In a beer of such moderate gravity, which is mashed in the middle to upper end of the sacchirification range, I can see no reason at all to use sugar adjuncts. It is not there to add flavour, it is not there to aid in attenuation, it is not there to add alcohol. It is there, because _at the time_ that it was common to use sugar in English brewing, it was because it was _cheap_. Sugar is traditionally used in English brewing purely as a matter of economy.



Nice work there Butters, even history becomes interesting when explained in relation to beer evolution & production!


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## Bribie G (9/1/09)

It's long been acknowledged that UK beers may contain sugar. The British Beer Bill of 1930 sort of sweeps it under the carpet but I bet if you went back to the mid Victorian era there was probably no sugar used:

_This Bill deals only with barley and hops. It may he asked why I have not dealt with the question of sugar. I have omitted sugar because there would be great practical difficulty in bringing it into the Measure. It would involve bringing in also a large number of ancillary businesses and the manufacturers of various substances supplied to the brewers, such as brewers' sugar, glucose and other chemical concoctions. I ask the House to observe that I have not called this Bill a Pure Beer Bill. Pure beer is 820 a matter which appeals strongly to us all, but I do not know that it is a very urgent matter for legislation. The term "pure beer" in the old days rather suggested the necessary inference that there was such stuff as impure beer. My memory goes back to the early days of this century, when there was an epidemic of arsenic poisoning in the North and it was traced to some beer that was being produced there. As the casualties were chiefly among the best customers, of course the remedy came from within the industry, and, since then, I think we have had no repetition of it. But apart from that sense in which the expression "pure beer" is used, there has grown up a secondary sense of the term which applies not to purity as such, but to the amount of sugar content. When "pure beer" is spoken of, by that is meant beer which has not more than 15 per cent. sugar content, At the present time beer very often rather exceeds that amount, but it seems to me that to deal with that question is far less urgent than to deal with the question of barley and hops, which are of great account in our agricultural industry._


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## buttersd70 (9/1/09)

BribieG said:


> It's long been acknowledged that UK beers may contain sugar. The British Beer Bill of 1930 sort of sweeps it under the carpet but I bet if you went back to _the mid Victorian era there was probably no sugar used_:



Which is the time period I was referring to. 1852 (or was it 54?) where the cereal crops in england were almost entirely wiped out, resulting in enforced seizure of Irish cereals for importation. In the first season of blight in Ireland, grain export to the mainland actually increased by 600% - even though people were starving. I think this was the catastrophe that set off the whole chain of events.

edit..821-823 in regards to the price, and more importantly, the _quality _of British Barley at that point in time is particularly interesting


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## Thirsty Boy (10/1/09)

All beside the point though... those wonderful English beers .. as traditional as they are, were brewed with sugar, no matter _why_, they were. So there is no reason on earth why sugar can't be or shouldn't be used to brew a great beer. Especially if you are talking about a Belgian or an English style.

As a method of controlling terminal gravity, sugar is a fine and useful tool. Below 10% you are some sort of a mega palate if you can even tell its there flavour wise.


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## Screwtop (10/1/09)

Look at it from the brewers perspective, why not we're brewers right; You have your local water, your choice of malt, hops and yeast, breweries use a particular strain of yeast, basically their house yeast such as Tooheys #1 and #2. You want to brew a beer with certain drinking qualities so you select the ingredients to suit, other parameters come into play such as OG and FG. Meeting the OG is easy but how do you meet your finishing gravity, this will depend to a degree upon your choice of malt and your sacc rest temp, the yeast will also play it's part, but what do you do if your yeast can not meet your desired FG at maximum attenuation in an all malt wort. If the beer finishes too high and maybe tastes a little sweet and this is not what you were aiming for as the brewer, a small addition of sugar can make those few points difference and completely alter the mouthfeel of a beer.  As the brewer you design your beer, choosing ingredients to produce the beer you want to produce, or in our case drink. Sugar is an ingredient used in brewing - Simple!

There are yeasts which I like to use for their flavour contributions that are a little lazy in the attenuation department, why change the yeast to a more attenuative strain which may provide unsuitable or very little flavour contribution. Why trade off body using a lower sacc temp when a small sugar addition can achieve what I want in the finished beer.

Bloody Glucophobes :lol:


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## AndrewQLD (10/1/09)

Damn straight Screwy.

Buttersd70, you have basically just confirmed what Thirsty boy has said, historically, sugar is used in some of the English style ales. So now we have proof of that we can all, with confidence, add sugar to our list of brewing ingredients.

I think people get a little hung up on the old kit & kilo of sugar thing, sure it can lead to some undesirable results when using a can of malt but AG is a totally different kettle of fish and in some cases can benefit from a small addition of sugar especially if trying to achieve a dryer, more attenuative beer.

I have sugar in my ingredients list, and although I use it in a very few recipes it's still an ingredient that is extremely useful when required.

Andrew


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## Bribie G (10/1/09)

My second AG is a Burton style bitter - with suitably nuked water, All Maris Otter, suitable hops, UK Bitter Wyeast etc. I hit the correct og for Marstons Pedigree and can't wait to try it in a couple of weeks. I also used the Marstons Ratio: 83 percent pale malt and 17 percent glucose - i.e. dex. Apparently they have been using this ratio since Pedigree came out God knows how long.
However I take the point that if I jumped in my ACME time machine and popped back to Burton in the 1840s it would have been a different story.

Another brewery that is quite unabashed about sugar is Arkells of Swindon (West Midlands / West Country). They brew magnificent ales and happily list two percent sugar on their website. 2% you would think isn't even worth bothering about but obviously it's an integral and carefully thought out part of their recipes, maybe that's an average used for fine tuning.


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## Steve (16/1/09)

Kegged this double batch yesterday (after brewing it last Sinday, 5 days grain to brain):

8kg BB Galaxy
1kg Mariss Otter Ale

110gms Liberty @ 60
20gms Liberty @ 15 + whirlfloc + 2 packs of old yeast
20gms Hallertaue @ 5
20gms Halletaue @ 0

One fermenter brewed with SO4, the other with Nottingham. Currently drinking the SO4 one as the Nottingham one hasnt finished. I reckon its a bloody nice pale ale. Just about to pop some gelatine into the keg.

Cheers
Steve


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## Mantis (12/5/09)

Tony said:


> too easy
> 
> 1st place in international ale at NSW state comp a couple of years back. So simple it hurts
> 
> ...



Did this one a few weeks ago, with US-05 and no chilled it. Drinking it now and it is a winner. Not as dry as coopers but not far off. Very smooth 
I am going to do another on the weekend with all chinook instead of POR just to see what difference there is 
I will also mash cooler


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## captaincleanoff (12/5/09)

what are people opinions on WLP009 Australian Ale yeast?

Going to give tony's recipe a try with the 009


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## bignath (28/4/11)

Tony said:


> too easy
> 
> 1st place in international ale at NSW state comp a couple of years back. So simple it hurts
> 
> ...



Thinking about doing this beer tonight, and just wondering...I've never FWH'd before. I'm using Brewmate, how much time should i put in the FWH addition. Is it the approx time that the hops would be in the wort above 80 deg? I'm thinking it takes me approx 25mins to get to boil from mashout temp so do i add this time to the amount of time i'm boiling for??

I also no chill, so my main bittering addition instead of being 45min, i'm thinking of around 25min....

And lastly, i don't have any wheat malt but i do have some Aromatic, Carapils, Med Crystal, and some Caramunich. Are any of these worth subbing for my lack of wheat malt?? I'm assuming the crystal malts are probably out of the equation?

Cheers,

Nath


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## Renzo (28/4/11)

Anyone who's afraid of using sugar in AG should read Pg 166-171 of Brew like a Monk to put their mind at ease re the whole cider debate. Even though they are talking about belgian styles, the overiding principle is that if you want to dry the beer out then use sugar if you can't attenuate enough. Dry beer is perfectly suited to hot weather so makes sense to use it here for all types of "summer" styles if that's your choice. I sometimes use 10-15% sugar in the kettle in some of my lawnmower ales and get down to 1005 easily with US-05.


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## bignath (28/4/11)

That's awesome mate, but i'm not sure how it helps me out....

Somewhere out there, a thread is missing a post about sugar....

:icon_cheers:


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## thesunsettree (28/4/11)

Big Nath said:


> That's awesome mate, but i'm not sure how it helps me out....
> 
> Somewhere out there, a thread is missing a post about sugar....
> 
> :icon_cheers:


Re sugar, have a read through page2 and the top of page3. Thats what renzo is referring to


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## bignath (28/4/11)

Ahh righto, i figured that because i have dug up an old thread (2 years old) that he may have been posting in the wrong topic.

Anyway, opinions as to my questions would be awesome if people can help out. I am mashing in around 2 hours from now. At the moment, my proposed changes to Tony's recipe are subbing out the wheat malt which i don't have and using carapils instead. Out of the 4 spec grains i have in supply, i think this will be the best option.

Still not sure about how to calculate IBU's from first wort hop though.....


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## Effect (28/4/11)

captaincleanoff said:


> what are people opinions on WLP009 Australian Ale yeast?
> 
> Going to give tony's recipe a try with the 009




it's the coopers yeast and I love it. Goes smashing in an aussie pale ale!


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## np1962 (28/4/11)

Big Nath said:


> Ahh righto, i figured that because i have dug up an old thread (2 years old) that he may have been posting in the wrong topic.
> 
> Anyway, opinions as to my questions would be awesome if people can help out. I am mashing in around 2 hours from now. At the moment, my proposed changes to Tony's recipe are subbing out the wheat malt which i don't have and using carapils instead. Out of the 4 spec grains i have in supply, i think this will be the best option.
> 
> Still not sure about how to calculate IBU's from first wort hop though.....


Nath,
Not sure on the calculation but using Beersmith 8gm of 10%POR FWH gives 10.1IBU or 9gm @ 60min gives 10.4 IBU. in 22L of 1.048SG wort
Carapils for wheat? Depends what the wheat is for, if for head retention the carapils will give you this. I'd probably go 97:3. It won't be exactly the same but should still be a good beer.
Nige


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## bignath (28/4/11)

Great, thanks Nige. In my recipe i had much the same figure, just wanted to make sure i was calculating it correctly.


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