# (vic) British Ales Comp



## brendo (15/4/11)

The Melbourne Brewers are once again running the British Ales competition at Oscars Alehouse, 7 Bayview Road Belgrave, Victoria (Melways Ref75 G10) on Sunday 15th May 2010 from 1:30pm. Entries close 12pm Saturday 7th May 2010 for nominated drop off points, but entries will be accepted on the day at the venue.

The categories for this year are:


Category 1 : Mild, Northern English Brown, Irish Red and Scottish Ale (80/-)
Category 2: Ordinary bitter, Best bitter and Extra Special Bitter

All first place getters in each Category will be presented with a trophy, with certificates supplied for secone and third.

Entry fees are $7 per entry, with a discount to $6 for Melbourne Brewers members.

*Entry Process*

As we did last year, and also with Beerfest this year, we will be utilising our online entry system to process entries. This competition will only be open to entries submitted online.

To enter this year's competition, please visit British Ales Competition and record your entries online - full entry instructions are on the site. Entries recorded with the site can then be dropped off at any of the following locations: 

The Brewers Den
Grain & Grape
Greensborough Homebrewing
On the day at Oscar's Alehouse in Belgrave (by 1pm)

Please note that there will be NO entry forms available at the entry points and ALL entries must be lodged via the competition site - homebrew shops will not be accepting entry payments. Entries through homebrew shops must be lodged by no later than 12pm on May 7, 2010. Entries to submitted after this should be presented at the competition on the day, ready for judging at 1:30pm.

All visitors welcome, come and sample the range of great microbrewed beers available on tap at Oscar's Alehouse. We look forward to seeing you on the day!!

Brendan Guild
The Melbourne Brewers - Competition Organiser


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## haysie (15/4/11)

Bummer.. No Strong/Old ale this year. It was the only worthy entry I had. Good luck everyone and rug up for Belgrave..brrrrr freezing joint.


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## peaky (15/4/11)

Sweet! This the kick in the arse I need to go pay a visit to Oscars, especially since it's just up the road. I've been talking about going for months and haven't made it yet. If I no-show this one, I'm a bloody loser. I'll be keen to enter a beer too :icon_cheers:


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## brendo (15/4/11)

haysie said:


> Bummer.. No Strong/Old ale this year. It was the only worthy entry I had. Good luck everyone and rug up for Belgrave..brrrrr freezing joint.



Sorry mate - small entry numbers on that cat last year, so retiring it this time around. If there is enough interest, it may make a return next year.


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## brendo (15/4/11)

peakydh said:


> Sweet! This the kick in the arse I need to go pay a visit to Oscars, especially since it's just up the road. I've been talking about going for months and haven't made it yet. If I no-show this one, I'm a bloody loser. I'll be keen to enter a beer too :icon_cheers:



Great little venue - super relaxed, great atmosphere, awesome beers and knowledgable staff. 

Come on down and say g'day - and make sure you get your entry in, gotta be in it to win it


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## peaky (26/4/11)

The CompMaster website says this comp is not accepting entries at this time. Is there a date when the comp will start accepting entries?

Cheers :icon_cheers:


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## Ross (26/4/11)

No IPA's?  

I'll have to see what I can rustle up.

cheers Ross


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## brendo (27/4/11)

Sorry guys, but there has been a delay with getting the site up and ready for processing entries - I am reliably informed that this will be sorted and ready to go by this Friday around 8pm.

Sorry for the inconvenience....

Still two weeks to get your entries dropped off at the collection points - good luck to all.

Cheers,

Brendo


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## DUANNE (30/4/11)

so much for the online entry system working. my acount on the website is now unknown and apparently doesnt exist , it was working just fine during the week though. and my brother opened an acount to enter this comp tonight and when he signs in with his username and password some one elses details come up. none of this happens with an old fashioned pen and paper entry. is this why i still havent got my feedback from beerfest yet as well? is it to much reliance on ureliable computers? i think ill just give this one a miss now.


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## Andyd (30/4/11)

BEERHOG said:


> so much for the online entry system working. my acount on the website is now unknown and apparently doesnt exist , it was working just fine during the week though. and my brother opened an acount to enter this comp tonight and when he signs in with his username and password some one elses details come up. none of this happens with an old fashioned pen and paper entry. is this why i still havent got my feedback from beerfest yet as well? is it to much reliance on ureliable computers? i think ill just give this one a miss now.



Hi Beerhog,

My fault - the rebuilt was pointing at an old database. It's almost fixed - I just need to get your account rebuilt.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Regarding beerfest feedback - if you entered online your feedback has been available since the monday after the competition. Offline entries are being mailed out at the moment.

If you entered offline but have an account, let me know and I'll go in and hook things up manually.

Sorry for the delay and inconvenience.

Andy


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## DUANNE (30/4/11)

thanks for the reply andy. ill give the site another go during the week and see how i go. if the beerfest feedback is getting sent out now i'll just wait for it to arrive.


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## Andyd (30/4/11)

BEERHOG said:


> thanks for the reply andy. ill give the site another go during the week and see how i go. if the beerfest feedback is getting sent out now i'll just wait for it to arrive.



No problem,

I've just finished updating your details. Would you mind jumping in and double checking it for me? You will need to request a new password, as I've lost the passwords for the accounts I had to rebuild manually.

Cheers!

Andy

Edit: I've also just hooked up your scoresheets for you...


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## DUANNE (30/4/11)

yep just loged in and changed my password so it seems good to go. thanks again for the super quick response and resolution.


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## Andyd (30/4/11)

BEERHOG said:


> yep just loged in and changed my password so it seems good to go. thanks again for the super quick response and resolution.



You're welcome!

I was super embarrased by the screw-up. Maybe I should try to get some sleep this week 

Cheers!

Andy


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## peaky (1/5/11)

I tried to login just before and was unsuccessful, so I had a new password emailed to me. Clicked through from the email and changed my password, then went and entered the comp and logged out. Went to log back in with my new password and was unsuccessful again. It seems I have to get a new password emailed to me each time I want to login.


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## Andyd (1/5/11)

peakydh said:


> I tried to login just before and was unsuccessful, so I had a new password emailed to me. Clicked through from the email and changed my password, then went and entered the comp and logged out. Went to log back in with my new password and was unsuccessful again. It seems I have to get a new password emailed to me each time I want to login.



Hi Peakydh,

Sorry - you were in the unfortunate position of being one of the two people who logged in before I fixed the problem. During the fix process your password couldn't be recovered, so I had to reset it.

You shouldn't have any problem looking in now that you've got your password again. Could you please let me know if your subsequent attempt is successful?

Thanks!

Andy


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## peaky (1/5/11)

Andyd said:


> Hi Peakydh,
> 
> Sorry - you were in the unfortunate position of being one of the two people who logged in before I fixed the problem. During the fix process your password couldn't be recovered, so I had to reset it.
> 
> ...



Hi Andy, I just logged in again and I'm still having the same issue. I'm having to get a new password emailed to me each time I want to login. When I try to change my password I get 'your email address is already registered' and my password is unable to be changed. However, I am able to access my account etc from the 'change password' page. It seems that the only way I'm able to login and access my account is by getting a new password emailed to me each time and going through the link in the email.

Hope this makes sense :icon_cheers: 

Cheers.


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## Andyd (1/5/11)

peakydh said:


> Hi Andy, I just logged in again and I'm still having the same issue. I'm having to get a new password emailed to me each time I want to login. When I try to change my password I get 'your email address is already registered' and my password is unable to be changed. However, I am able to access my account etc from the 'change password' page. It seems that the only way I'm able to login and access my account is by getting a new password emailed to me each time and going through the link in the email.
> 
> Hope this makes sense :icon_cheers:
> 
> Cheers.



Thanks peaky,

I've just taken the site down to have a closer look at this problem. 

I'll advise when it's live again.

Regards,


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## Andyd (1/5/11)

Andyd said:


> Thanks peaky,
> 
> I've just taken the site down to have a closer look at this problem.
> 
> ...



I've just activated the site again.

Peaky - I haven't been able to replicate your issue, so this could be a browser cache problem. While I was there I paid for the entry you've put in there just to make sure everything was good again.

I'll send you a PM with my mobile number in case you're still having hassles and we can work through it together.

Please let me know if anything is awry still. I've just run through a pretty comprehensive test on a different internet connection and it all seems to be alive and well, but I've thought that before 

Thanks for all the feedback guys - it's been a stressful 48 hours .

Andy


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## WarmBeer (1/5/11)

Andy / Brendo,

Can we assume the competition date on the CompMaster website is correct? I.e. 9th Jun 2011?

Gives a couple more weeks to prepare, instead of 15th May, which I initially thought was the date.


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## brett mccluskey (1/5/11)

WarmBeer said:


> Andy / Brendo,
> 
> Can we assume the competition date on the CompMaster website is correct? I.e. 9th Jun 2011?
> 
> Gives a couple more weeks to prepare, instead of 15th May, which I initially thought was the date.


The club website still says 15 May,and i've not recieved any mail saying different (I'm judging) :unsure:Just logged in to Compmaster and 15 May is the date stated there :huh:


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## Andyd (1/5/11)

toper1 said:


> The club website still says 15 May,and i've not recieved any mail saying different (I'm judging) :unsure:Just logged in to Compmaster and 15 May is the date stated there :huh:



For a second there I thought that I couldn't cop a break, but when I log in as me it looks correct. 

PM me your compmaster username and I'll see if it's some sort of weird timezone issue...

Regards,

Andy


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## WarmBeer (2/5/11)

WarmBeer said:


> Andy / Brendo,
> 
> Can we assume the competition date on the CompMaster website is correct? I.e. 9th Jun 2011?
> 
> Gives a couple more weeks to prepare, instead of 15th May, which I initially thought was the date.


Forced a refresh, and it's all good now.

Fortunately, just bottled off a Mild, so will have something to put in.


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## fcmcg (2/5/11)

WarmBeer said:


> Andy / Brendo,
> 
> Can we assume the competition date on the CompMaster website is correct? I.e. 9th Jun 2011?
> 
> Gives a couple more weeks to prepare, instead of 15th May, which I initially thought was the date.


WB,
The Melbourne Brewers web site does say 15th of May on it's banner ad for the competition. . I do seem to recall that it was about May last year .
Good luck regardless
Ferg


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## brendo (3/5/11)

Just a reminder guys - all entries must be lodged and paid for via compmaster by 12pm *this* Saturday - 7/5.

Entries will be picked up from Grain & Grape, Brewers Den and Greensborough Homebrewing this Saturday after 12pm, so make sure they are dropped off by that time and no later or you could miss out. Entries can also be dropped off at Oscar's Alehouse on the day (15/5) by 1pm, with judging to begin at 1:30pm.

If you are in the area, make sure you drop into Oscars, say G'day and enjoy one of the many beers that Brad has available for your beery pleasure!!

Cheers,

Brendo


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## fcmcg (3/5/11)

brendo said:


> Just a reminder guys - all entries must be lodged and paid for via compmaster by 12pm *this* Saturday - 7/5.


Brendo,
Not having a go mate..i'm on the computer..but when i rang and informed some of the less internet savvy Westgate members that they would need to get their entries sorted so i could help them enter via computer , they said "forget it..it's too hard"...which is a pity..
I do hope that next years beerfest doesn't go this way ( online entry only ) as one of our members ( who isn't on computer ) won best beer in show...just some feedback and maybe something for the commitee to consider ?
I may however try and get an entry in...if i can clear the fog of a new born baby in the house and get out of my PJ's...
regards
Dad...oops i mean Ferg


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## brendo (3/5/11)

fergthebrewer said:


> Brendo,
> Not having a go mate..i'm on the computer..but when i rang and informed some of the less internet savvy Westgate members that they would need to get their entries sorted so i could help them enter via computer , they said "forget it..it's too hard"...which is a pity..
> I do hope that next years beerfest doesn't go this way ( online entry only ) as one of our members ( who isn't on computer ) won best beer in show...just some feedback and maybe something for the commitee to consider ?
> I may however try and get an entry in...if i can clear the fog of a new born baby in the house and get out of my PJ's...
> ...



I hear ya mate... but British Ales is a small comp and to be honest entry numbers didn't suffer last year as a result of it being only online.

I don't believe that there are plans at this stage to go down this path with Beerfest next year, however the response was pretty supportive given over half the entries were handled online.

Lastly, but not least, congrats on being a Dad - I trust all are well and healthy.

Brendo


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## Andyd (3/5/11)

Hey Ferg,

Yeah, people not being able to deal with online processes is something I run into on a daily basis at work (despite most of these people usually being very capable of hurling abuse by email .

We don't have any plans to make Beerfest exclusively online, and CompMaster has been recently redesigned to cater for competitions which have a mix of online and offline entries. Of course scoresheets for offline entries will not able to be accessed through the online interface.

I do understand the pain, and the irony is that these guys are often the ones who have supported the hobby for many years through participation in the organisation of events, so I'm keen that they're not lost in the process.

In the meantime I'd also like to hear from anyone who does find it hard to enter online - my goal is to improve this, and if your members have suggestions I would sincerely like to hear them.

Cheers!

Andy


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## Wolfy (3/5/11)

fergthebrewer said:


> Not having a go mate..i'm on the computer..but when i rang and informed some of the less internet savvy Westgate members that they would need to get their entries sorted so i could help them enter via computer , they said "forget it..it's too hard"...which is a pity..
> I do hope that next years beerfest doesn't go this way ( online entry only ) as one of our members ( who isn't on computer ) won best beer in show...just some feedback and maybe something for the commitee to consider ?


Obviously the system needs to cater for all levels of computer-user, but once all the bugs are ironed out, and it is working as expected, rather than pandering to a small number of Luddites, I hope the committee give more weight to the advantages of the online system to the organizers and all other competition participants.


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## haysie (3/5/11)

If the online system is so good, how come only *ONE* brewclub in Australia is using it? Are all the other brewclubs infiltrated by Luddites :unsure:


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## brendo (3/5/11)

haysie said:


> If the online system is so good, how come only *ONE* brewclub in Australia is using it? Are all the other brewclubs infiltrated by Luddites :unsure:



no mate, it is new and both Bayside and Vicbrew have expressed interest in using it to run their comps this year - so I think you will see it being used more extensively in the future. Of course it will be up to indvidual clubs as to how and where they use it.

Just another option, and options are good I would have thought.


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## haysie (3/5/11)

brendo said:


> no mate, it is new and both Bayside and Vicbrew have expressed interest in using it to run their comps this year - so I think you will see it being used more extensively in the future. Of course it will be up to indvidual clubs as to how and where they use it.
> 
> Just another option, and options are good I would have thought.



Fair enough Brendo but its not another option when it is the only option, as in this threads comp.

I would like someone to convince me that the online is a win for the entrant, i.e reduced entry fees for one which hasnt happened, I just see no pro`s at all for the entrant apart from the online judging sheet is an earlier report than snail mail, sure I see the benefits for the club and heaps of them but at the end of the day I would much prefer to print a form, fill it out, drop off entry with real $.


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## Fourstar (3/5/11)

DU99 said:


> how hard is it to scan a form into a computer.



Some would say, how hard is it to use a web-form?  




haysie said:


> I would like someone to convince me that the online is a win for the entrant,




In my opion and i speak for no one else, efficiency is everything. The time it takes to goto a webpage, find the entry form, print X amount of forms on a crappy slow inkjet printer, by this stage i could have completed one online entry. The first time round is the chore, you have to register which is the only part i hate about any website really but ti comes part and parcel of creating an account.

Once registered all of your particulars are completed and you never have to touch them (unless you move of course).

A few benifits to the end user are as follows.

- Most handwriting ive encountered (mine included) looks like its been written by the entrants left foot. The online form is another safeguard, not just electronically it will be flagged but also paper based once printed that the entry does not end up in the wrong category.
- Cataloging of the entrants historical judging sheets to view at their disposal in soft copy.
- I call this one the Sarah Murdoch syndrome. Validation of scores so prizes are awarded correctly. (im sure people dont want their 1st places taken away from them due to a countback cock-up.)
- Cost, yes there was a benifit to the entrant. those who had an online entry saved $2 per entry IIRC.



Anyway, no use flogging a dead horse. Its all been said before. To me the biggest positive is how smoothly it helps the compeititon run, any benifits to the entrant IMO are merely coincidental besides festures that a purposly built for entrants. 

As an entrant, I couldnt give two hoots if i had to exclusively use offline or online entries. After all, im not the one who runs the competition. If someone wants to use eletronic as an entry method, so be it. If it turned out paper based entries where easier on the compeition organisers, i would use that method. After all, they are the ones busting their butts to ensure a compeition runs sucessfully, smoothly, accurately and entrants get the most bang for their buck. If using an online entry format acommodates that well im all for it.


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## haysie (3/5/11)

Fourstar said:


> Anyway, no use flogging a dead horse.



I agree with that _only_.

Stinks of elitism by a faction group of gen y`s whom think their way is the only way. Effiency my arse to the entrant, there is absolutely no benefit too disclose your personal details online when you have to visit the HBS to drop your entry off anyway, unless the new NBN can deliver beer via optic i`m not sold.


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## fcmcg (3/5/11)

Andyd said:


> I do understand the pain, and the irony is that these guys are often the ones who have supported the hobby for many years through participation in the organisation of events, so I'm keen that they're not lost in the process.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Andy , 
Thanks for your feed back and for listening . I understand how much work goes into organizing and running a competition.
You are very right , the very person I alluded to in my previous post has been a massive supporter of all brew clubs and the comps they run . He said he wanted to support Melbourne brewers as they also support Westgate with their entries into Stout Extravaganza.
The irony is you HAVE lost him in the process..and you were always going to loose anyone who was unable to enter online.
Guess this means you guys may have a chance in winning best in show now lol h34r: 
If I can convince him to let me put an entry in , I will...
Regardless , I hope it's a good comp and well supported , as it should be . All clubs need us brewers to support the comps!
Cheers
Ferg
Ps what about an option for entrants to put entries in , in other names ? What I mean , is if I am a registered user of compmaster , how about an option to let me put entries In on other names , under my login. ? 
Just a though...


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## Maple (3/5/11)

Holy f#k, seriously? 

You use an online forum, for which you need to sign up for, to air your discontent? 

I would accept hand written snail mail responses/objections whatever, but unless acting on proxy for someone (to which I would also ask for the signators declaration of said proxy allowance) this is just too rich...

Maybe the Internet should be a privilege and not a right.

Grow up or log off.

Ferg: this is not a response to your constructive post - for clarity.


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## fcmcg (3/5/11)

DU99 said:


> sound's like a bit of discrimination,wonder if Equal opportunity would like this..you don't own a computer or have internet you can't enter a event..


Du..now settle down...This type of reply is not constructive..


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## haysie (3/5/11)

Maple said:


> Holy f#k, seriously?
> 
> You use an online forum, for which you need to sign up for, to air your discontent?
> 
> ...



Deleted previous post, no intention to disrail the thread.
But WTF are you talking about. If you are the man whom runs around on the net forums... take me on ..take me on. Whos the goose here? Yes derailed!
Do you have anything postive or constructive to add to the questions regarding the competition or online entries? Log off or grow up.
Had no intention to bite into this online thing again until Wolfy posted, Brendo was secular in his response, Fourstar was blah blah blah, Maple was a complete fool.


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## Maple (3/5/11)

Bring it. 'nuf said, nuff nuff.


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## haysie (3/5/11)

Real winner and a committeman (how the feck did that happen)

maybe something do to with that faction mentioned earlier


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## brett mccluskey (3/5/11)

Gentlemen,please,your on a public forum.Think about it ...


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## Maple (3/5/11)

haysie said:


> Real winner and a committeman (how the feck did that happen)
> 
> maybe something do to with that faction mentioned earlier


Gotta love democracy. Apologies to derail the derailment.


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## DU99 (3/5/11)

:beer:


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## Andyd (3/5/11)

fergthebrewer said:


> Andy ,
> Thanks for your feed back and for listening . I understand how much work goes into organizing and running a competition.
> You are very right , the very person I alluded to in my previous post has been a massive supporter of all brew clubs and the comps they run . He said he wanted to support Melbourne brewers as they also support Westgate with their entries into Stout Extravaganza.
> The irony is you HAVE lost him in the process..and you were always going to loose anyone who was unable to enter online.
> ...


That is a brilliant suggestion ferg... Ive just put that one in the new feature list.

Andy


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## Fourstar (3/5/11)

haysie said:


> Stinks of elitism by a faction group of gen y`s whom think their way is the only way.



Sounds like a response from a baby boomer thats fearful of progressiveness. If i wanted to listen to this dribble i'd tune into 1964.

Point me to the group of Gen Y who is developing this product along with the brigade who is peddling it? I sure cant find any developers and the only Gen Y'er voicing an opinion here is me.



haysie said:


> Fourstar was blah blah blah.



You asked a question and i gave you an answer. Instead you set your gun to spray mode and shot first, asked questions later. No change there.

I should have known you werent going to accept any response as valid. After all, there was no chance of you accepting any other views other than your own. I shouldnt have wasted my time.


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## haysie (3/5/11)

Not quite sure why you n your men always wanna get personal. Its just brewing.

Sure I have never agreed with the online entries and view it with extreme sceptism and have voiced it since day one, and will continue because this isnt in the better interest of homebrewing, it is in the better interest of the club only and see no benefit whatsoever to the enduser/entrant. Its a selfish system in itself.

Its not progressive at all, prove it? you still dont back a good argument. I wasted my time asking the question again. No need to get all stand offish about it, this is a forum where we express an open opinion, remember we are not all behind the closed doors of MB`s.

The Gen Y`s I refer to are the committee at Melbourne Brewers, thats my take on it. Simple.


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## Fourstar (3/5/11)

haysie said:


> Not quite sure why you n your men always wanna get personal. Its just brewing.
> 
> Sure I have never agreed with the online entries and view it with extreme sceptism and have voiced it since day one, and will continue because this isnt in the better interest of homebrewing, it is in the better interest of the club only and see no benefit whatsoever to the enduser/entrant. Its a selfish system in itself.
> 
> ...



Things get personal when you set out to be provocative. Rather than respond to to our answers with why you dont agree, you opt to insult and make outlandish statements.

Its not progressive? If you think paper is the future, im sorry but your sadly mistaken. There was a reason why banks phased out pass book accounts. If this is not being progressive we might as well work it all out on stone tablets and an abacus.


Again, I am the only Gen Y on the Melbourne Brewers committee.


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## haysie (3/5/11)

Fourstar said:


> Things get personal when you set out to be provocative. Rather than respond to to our answers with why you dont agree, you opt to insult and make outlandish statements.
> 
> Its not progressive? If you think paper is the future, im sorry but your sadly mistaken. There was a reason why banks phased out pass book accounts. If this is not being progressive we might as well work it all out on stone tablets and an abacus.
> 
> ...



Go back and read the post`s Braden, nothing until your foul mouthed friend come along was provocative. Outlandish statements? get a grip! I didnt insult anybody nor make outlandish statements. I stand by everyone of them. Brendo is a far better forum spokesman than you, now thats a statement.
No its not progressive at all, the opposite in fact. MB`s are running competitions to suit themselves. Sadly mistaken???? I definitly dont think so..


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## Andyd (3/5/11)

haysie said:


> Not quite sure why you n your men always wanna get personal. Its just brewing.
> 
> Sure I have never agreed with the online entries and view it with extreme sceptism and have voiced it since day one, and will continue because this isnt in the better interest of homebrewing, it is in the better interest of the club only and see no benefit whatsoever to the enduser/entrant. Its a selfish system in itself.
> 
> ...



G'day Haysie,

I don't like using public forums like this as a soapbox, but I feel like someone needs to give this discussion some objective perspective.

Personally I'm pretty glad some of the younger gen have stepped up. In many ways it's unfortunate that older, experienced committee members end up leaving the committee over time, but given the amount of work they end up doing on behalf of the members it's an inevitable fact. So thank goodness we do have enthusiastic, new members on the committee, or the club (any club for that matter) would eventually end up folding!

The committee at MB are indeed now in majority Gen y (or at least the gen between X and Y). Personally I'm an X like you mate, and Pete pre-dates us both. So there's pretty good cross generational representation there at the moment - I'd get my facts straight on those sorts of argumentative points before I started slinging mud.

And speaking about facts, CompMaster is in fact my baby, thought of by me, written by me, and maintained by me. The guys on the committee don't have anything to do with it, other than providing input on how things could work, and deciding when and where to use it. And as I pointed out before, I'm an X, just like you.

CompMaster will live of die by whether or not clubs find is useful to help them run their competitions. For me if they decide to let it die, then I've wasted something like 700+ hours (and counting) of effort and several hundreds of dollars, but then again I wouldn't have to continue to maintain it. The family will be happy. And I could focus more on brewing and the other philanthropic actiities that are a part of my life (like refereeing volleyball for disabled players).

Getting objective again, let's look at the progressive points shall we?

* Entrants do in fact gain advantage through more rapid return of scoresheets, having an online record of their scoresheets and results, and they only put their details into the system once, rather than filling out a form to each entry for every competition.
* Sponsors get better exposure, resulting in the significantly better supported Beerfest prize pool this year.
* Homebrew stores don't have to handle cash with the entries
* Judges get to see the sheets they've written on the day (something that's never been available before this), giving them an opportunity to reflect on their performance in an objective light.

Yes, there's something in there for eveyone. And I won't wax lyrically about the advantages it offers to the competition organisers, because you don't seem interested in that aspect of things at all.

Until you decide it's time for you to put your hand up to do things like spend 10 hours stuffing envelopes and mailing out scoresheets, I would suggest you stop having a go at the very people who dedicate a large proportion of their spare time to support the hobby you love, before you wind up having to do all the heavy lifting yourself.

Andy


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## Fourstar (3/5/11)

haysie said:


> I stand by everyone of them. Brendo is a far better forum spokesman than you, now thats a statement.



I obviously dont have to search back to far to find insults. As for the rest, i'll take your route and simply ignore the rest of your response.

You havn't gown up much since the school yard have you?


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## haysie (3/5/11)

Andyd said:


> G'day Haysie,
> 
> I don't like using public forums like this as a soapbox, but I feel like someone needs to give this discussion some objective perspective.
> 
> ...


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## haysie (3/5/11)

Fourstar said:


> I obviously dont have to search back to far to find insults. As for the rest, i'll take your route and simply ignore the rest of your response.
> 
> You havn't gown up much since the school yard have you?



Do I really have to grow up because I do not agree with you. With that attitude, I cant be bothered. 
Between your blah blah and Andy`s reply. Online brewing should be as good as online betting......... did you see all those TAB`s close down on the street.


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## Andyd (3/5/11)

Yes Haysie, you've been a steward on occassion, and that's great - thanks for the input into the community. You may well have had a role on other occassions (pretty sure I've seen you on judging tablesto), so I apologise if I am selling your contribution to the greater homebrewing community well short of reality. But that doesn't give you the right to cast aspersions upon those who put in effort above and beyond to keep our club running.

You do, however, have the right to decide when and if you are going to enter your beers in competitions. I respect that, and indeed I respect your right to air your opinions whether I agree with them or not. 

You also have the right to run your own competitions. Even your own club. And good luck with that mate - I mean that most sincerely.

Cheers,

Andy


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## haysie (3/5/11)

Andyd said:


> Yes Haysie, you've been a steward on occassion, and that's great - thanks for the input into the community. You may well have had a role on other occassions (pretty sure I've seen you on judging tablesto), so I apologise if I am selling your contribution to the greater homebrewing community well short of reality. But that doesn't give you the right to cast aspersions upon those who put in effort above and beyond to keep our club running.
> 
> You do, however, have the right to decide when and if you are going to enter your beers in competitions. I respect that, and indeed I respect your right to air your opinions whether I agree with them or not.
> 
> ...



Good luck with the crew Andy, no one was ever casting aspersions remember. It was the AndyD software that ruffled the feathers, It just grew from there like all good things brewing.

Yes, I would not enter a beer in any competition run by Melbourne nor the Vicbrew committee you sit on, I have no doubt at some stage you will also bring that into disrespute with your sometimes/sometimes not 700+ hour/yawn Compmaster.

My own competitions? NOOOOOO..its TOO MUCH fun seeing the shit kicked out of Melbourne ATM.

Very Sincerely


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## brendo (4/5/11)

anyhoo... back to the topic at hand, entries close this Saturday.

If you intend entering, I wish you all the best of luck.

Cheers,

Brendo


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## Wolfy (4/5/11)

brendo said:


> anyhoo... back to the topic at hand, entries close this Saturday.


Do online entries for bottles that will be dropped off at the venue on the day also close this Saturday, or is the close-off only for those that need to be taken to a pickup-point?


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## brettprevans (5/5/11)

Hmmm, Beer is good. 

Hope lots of people have entered good beers for me to judge. 

If people out there want to enter, then u should. Comps are fun


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## Andyd (5/5/11)

All entries need to have been registered online by this Saturday.

c

Andy


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## geoffd (5/5/11)

Man who open up the can o' whup ass, what a screwed up thread.
The only post I can see worthy was the Buddha picture...chillax dudes.

Du99, equal op? falls on its arse, everyone has free internet access via public libraries.

FergtheBigDaddybrewer, great Idea on per persona entries, congrats on the bub, was it a dog or a cat? 

Haysie, entry fees were discounted in beerfest for online entry as well as club membership, $2ea off $11 down to $7, I do find the payment method convenient & it removes any hassels of entry fees going missing. I can see the reduction in labour on having to relabel all the entries. I am also happy to save a few trees by getting the scoresheets electronically & saves on postage costs for the clubs. I think it's fair to say that when a lot of the teething problems are aired out & it's running smoother I can see more comps going on board with it, most likely as "A" method not "The" method.

Andy has made an important point of wanting to remain inclusive, I had raised the issue of offline brewers in the lead up to beerfest & thought it was a bit harsh penalising them. I think the P/P entry system might help this. If it doesnt help non club members, then that's fine IMO, it's just a further inducement for them to join a club & be more involved in the HB community.

Not sure why everyone needs to get so combative in their arguements, surely we can do these things more politely, I have been able to ask delicate questions of Andy & Brendo via PM that removes the chance for misinterpretation on an open thread & starts a snowball of arguements. I would give you an example, but that would start an arguement 

Raise a glass to Ferg despite the missus doing all the hard work  Slainte


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## fcmcg (5/5/11)

Father Jack said:


> Man who open up the can o' whup ass, what a screwed up thread.
> The only post I can see worthy was the Buddha picture...chillax dudes.
> 
> Du99, equal op? falls on its arse, everyone has free internet access via public libraries.
> ...


Here , Here Geoff...
Very well said...
I shall be putting an entry in...bit young but my Irish red Ver 2.00 could do with some feedback....
OT...neither dog or cat...healthy ( and extremely thirsty ) Baby boy...tipping the scales at 4.485kg ( over 9 llb)
Good luck with your entries...
Cheers
Ferg


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## HoppingMad (5/5/11)

Father Jack said:


> Man who open up the can o' whup ass, what a screwed up thread.



Pretty obvious ain't it? :lol: 

Good luck to all entering using the information super highway. I've heard that you can do a lot of new-fangled stuff on there and it's a real blast.

Despite the opposition, as Brendo pointed out this comp was a huge success last year and online was the only way to enter then. 

From what I gather at Beerfest we had an enormous number enter in this way so a ton of people are finding that handwriting, licking envelopes and looking for rubber bands can be a pain in the ring hole. To those who wish to continue raiding their stationery work cupboards for supplies, good luck - but I think you'll find that Compmaster does save you a bit of faffing around.

Congrats on the new addition Ferg, and looking forward to Stout Extravaganza guys. Have a bottle that I'm going to give a run in yours - not expecting huge things but we'll see how it goes.

Hopper.


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## geoffd (5/5/11)

Hi Hopper, I wasnt trying to point fingers, just commenting at the general denegration of the thread.
I lost my will to read somewhere around page 2 or 3, so may have missed some decent posting.


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## sean_0 (5/5/11)

Hey, a question about the competition rules - What size bottles are allowed? Is it only longnecks or are pints/stubbies allowed?


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## geoffd (5/5/11)

sean_0 said:


> Hey, a question about the competition rules - What size bottles are allowed? Is it only longnecks or are pints/stubbies allowed?




Generally all the comps in VIC are 750ml preferred, 500ml minimum, a pair of stubbies is acceptable. Check the rules it should say it there

EDIT: Actually I dont see it on the compmaster website, but would assume what I have said above is correct


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## sean_0 (5/5/11)

Thanks, can't see anything about it on the compmaster site. Don't have any longnecks of the one I think might be worth entering, but I have a few pint bottles.


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## HoppingMad (5/5/11)

Didn't think you were FJ. Was a fair comment about some old timers not wanting to learn a new trick on the entry front. 

I guess what you're suggesting could be a difference between Westgate & MB - being that our 'mature' brewers don't tend to enter much anymore (it's left with the Gen y/x'ers as someone here put it  ) - and that's a real shame as some of their beers are darn amazing. It's one of the treats you get rocking up to Club meets - I'm sure you'll agree when you attend your own meets at Westgate and get to taste a good one from an old guy who knows his stuff. You just go - wow that guy should enter that, he'd clean up.

I guess with many experienced brewers they figure they're past getting feedback with comps and filling a shelf with etched mugs and certificates. I know a winemaker in his 70s whose wines are incredible who's won every award commercially under the sun - now they can't be bothered with all that. It's like they've climbed the mountain and now they can sit back and let someone else do it.

Hopper.


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## brendo (5/5/11)

sean_0 said:


> Thanks, can't see anything about it on the compmaster site. Don't have any longnecks of the one I think might be worth entering, but I have a few pint bottles.



FJ is correct - 500ml minimum, so a pint bottle will be OK, otherwise two stubbies is always acceptable in place of a longneck.


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## geoffd (5/5/11)

Yes we've a few brewers who have lost the hunger to enter. I'd like to see them enter to try and get a club trophy that's what is driving me to keep entering now, I'm getting to their point with the flower vases & paperweights, but it's always nice to win a bag of grain too  
We've also got a few blossoming brewers who should start to get some beers in soon.

I'd have to say almost every meeting we get someone bringing along an absolute corker of a beer, or a mead, or a barleywine, or an athol brose or all of the above 

IMO Comps are all about keeping the state standard high for the AABC, jsut a bit of freindly rivalry; personally I see no difference between a Westgater & a Baysider etc, other than the postcode, I dont see any reason why we shouldnt collaborate as much as possible, whether it be knowledge or cost savings or whatever.


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## WarmBeer (5/5/11)

Father Jack said:


> ...personally I see no difference between a Westgater & a Baysider etc, other than the postcode...


Hey, watch your dirty, Western-suburbs language! Them's fightin' words!

<WarmBeer goes and jumps into his Ferrari with his supermodel mistress and roars off into the sunset>



Ninjedit: added smiley, to avoid prompting another shitstorm. Westies love smileys...


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## brendo (5/5/11)

Father Jack said:


> IMO Comps are all about keeping the state standard high for the AABC, jsut a bit of freindly rivalry; personally I see no difference between a Westgater & a Baysider etc, other than the postcode, I dont see any reason why we shouldnt collaborate as much as possible, whether it be knowledge or cost savings or whatever.



Agreed mate... a stronger club community is a stronger homebrewing community all round. I think the fact that we have a variety of brewers winning at Vicbrew points to a healthy and strong competition scene, rather than one that is dominated by a handful of brewers.

Viva la fermentation!!! :kooi:


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## Wolfy (5/5/11)

HoppingMad said:


> I guess what you're suggesting could be a difference between Westgate & MB - being that our 'mature' brewers don't tend to enter much anymore (it's left with the Gen y/x'ers as someone here put it  ) - and that's a real shame as some of their beers are darn amazing. It's one of the treats you get rocking up to Club meets - I'm sure you'll agree when you attend your own meets at Westgate and get to taste a good one from an old guy who knows his stuff. You just go - wow that guy should enter that, he'd clean up.


I don't mean to derail this thread (more than it has been already).
... but it could it be the 'mature' brewers brew beer they like to drink and have perfected to their taste, rather than brewing to rigid style guidelines?

I think it was a recent MB newsletter that suggested in the last few years there had been a noticeable improvement in the quality of HB competition judging. I suspect this is likely due to the 'new' generation participating in JBCP training and accreditation courses. However one thing that does is narrow the focus so the beer is judged as much (or more) on style and how it fits to that style rather than simply being a '_wow darn amazing_' beer that you can enjoy on club-night. Past competition results and recipes hint that the '_wow darn amazing_' beer has often done well in the past, but that may not be enough to impress the newly educated style focused judges or to even bother to enter knowing that the beer may not have been brewed to a specific style.


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## brendo (5/5/11)

WarmBeer said:


> Westies love smileys...



as a former Westie, I can confirm that that is in fact true


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## geoffd (6/5/11)

no smile here, too busy coughing up the smoke of Warmbeers tires....... 




seriously though, smileys do help convey emotion, as we lack the ability to show facial expresion & vocal tone in writing, probably a good reason why many shitsto[ms start: misinterpretation or misconveyance. Anyway now we really are getting off topic :icon_chickcheers: :super: :wacko:  ...Just for you WB


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## HoppingMad (6/5/11)

Wolfy said:


> I don't mean to derail this thread (more than it has been already).
> ... but it could it be the 'mature' brewers brew beer they like to drink and have perfected to their taste, rather than brewing to rigid style guidelines?
> 
> I think it was a recent MB newsletter that suggested in the last few years there had been a noticeable improvement in the quality of HB competition judging. I suspect this is likely due to the 'new' generation participating in JBCP training and accreditation courses. However one thing that does is narrow the focus so the beer is judged as much (or more) on style and how it fits to that style rather than simply being a '_wow darn amazing_' beer that you can enjoy on club-night. Past competition results and recipes hint that the '_wow darn amazing_' beer has often done well in the past, but that may not be enough to impress the newly educated style focused judges or to even bother to enter knowing that the beer may not have been brewed to a specific style.



:icon_offtopic: 

Think you are right Wolfy. 

There is a sense of 'No need brewing for judges, I'm brewing for me". And fair enough for the guys to be doing this. They feel they've earned their stripes, and can now sit back and have a few beers they like. This is something specific to our club I think. As Father Jack says, he has a couple of very experienced guys who do very well at comps and continue to enter - and we are very envious! Haha. We keep asking them to do a footy style - 'draft swap' and trade a few members, but they won't listen  

Your point about style focused judging making beer entries more conservative? Not sure about that - is an interesting debate as to whether having more BJCP judges going through the exams etc is a positive thing or making everything too formal and uncreative. I think having more people educated about what makes a good beer, and what is a flaw, and being able to articulate that can only be a good thing towards having better judging comments and having judges who make better beers themselves.

From my view, if a beer pops on a flight during judging, it pops and when that happens it is amazing to see. A murmur goes through the panel and all are in agreement they've struck gold. I think for a beer to 'pop' you need to have a beer grounded in the style guidelines, but you also need to get creative somewhere, or your beer will sit back in the flight and not get noticed. This was true a decade ago, and is true today - particularly when you go back over the old VicBrew books that Ross at Craftbrewer or G&G sell. They have cracking recipes, but looking over them you'd still agree they fit to style, despite the experimentation.

Hopper.


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## Siborg (6/5/11)

Andyd said:


> All entries need to have been registered online by this Saturday.
> 
> c
> 
> Andy


Oh crap! That reminds me (too busy watching the storm, lol). Better log on now and enter mine. I want to get feedback on my scottish ale when its _not_ infected!


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## Siborg (6/5/11)

Siborg said:


> Oh crap! That reminds me (too busy watching the storm, lol). Better log on now and enter mine. I want to get feedback on my scottish ale when its _not_ infected!


Just submitted my entry and paid. As I'm judging (other category), I assume I can bring my bottle on the day?


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## brendo (6/5/11)

Siborg said:


> Just submitted my entry and paid. As I'm judging (other category), I assume I can bring my bottle on the day?



Yeah Si, on the day is fine - as long as it has been registered and paid for by 12pm tomorrow.


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## Siborg (6/5/11)

brendo said:


> registered and paid for by 12pm tomorrow


done and done. 

Gonna take extra measures to ensure no bottle infections this time. I want feedback on the recipe, and thats pretty damn hard when all you can taste is medicinal/bandaids


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## brendo (6/5/11)

nice work Si.

Just a reminder... entries close at 12pm tomorrow, so make sure yours is in.

Cheers,

Brendo


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## brett mccluskey (6/5/11)

Siborg said:


> Oh crap! That reminds me (too busy watching the storm, lol). Better log on now and enter mine. I want to get feedback on my scottish ale when its _not_ infected!


top stuff Si,can't wait to try your Scottish ale without the vinegar added :drinks:


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## Siborg (6/5/11)

toper1 said:


> top stuff Si,can't wait to try your Scottish ale without the vinegar added :drinks:


Ah yeah, you were on that panel last time. Pretty much the same recipe as last time, just added a handful of biscuit malt for good measure. I'll be taking extra precautions to ensure no infections this time


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## brendo (7/5/11)

One last reminder folks - entries must be lodged by 12pm today and at drop off points for collection. 

Good luck!!

Brendo


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## mxd (7/5/11)

brendo said:


> One last reminder folks - entries must be lodged by 12pm today and at drop off points for collection.
> 
> Good luck!!
> 
> Brendo




An FYI the site appears down at this point of time


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## Andyd (7/5/11)

mxd said:


> An FYI the site appears down at this point of time



The guys who look after the server to look into this - I can't even get to the management console to look at the logs at the moment. 

Timing is everything 

If you are intending to enter and haven't been able to get it into the system this morning, drop me a note to [email protected] and we'll take care of you.

Regards,

Andy


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## reVoxAHB (8/5/11)

Andyd said:


> The guys who look after the server to look into this - I can't even get to the management console to look at the logs at the moment.
> 
> Timing is everything



Timing is everything. I was on a flight from LA to Melbourne at this hiccup & couldn't provide immediate support.. and of course, this corresponds with comp deadline submission <_< 

It appears there is a problem with a particular nameserver, so while the site is up (and has suffered no downtime) users on the Optus / Telstra backbone (and likely others in AUS) are not resolving to the site. I imagine this will resolve itself in the next 24-48 business hours. 

As workaround, I have created the following URL: http://tinyurl.com/6xvh2yy which effectively bypasses DNS and hits the site by direct IP. I will watch this thread throughout the day. Let me know if any of you are having further problems.

reVox


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## Andyd (8/5/11)

reVox said:


> Timing is everything. I was on a flight from LA to Melbourne at this hiccup & couldn't provide immediate support.. and of course, this corresponds with comp deadline submission <_<
> 
> It appears there is a problem with a particular nameserver, so while the site is up (and has suffered no downtime) users on the Optus / Telstra backbone (and likely others in AUS) are not resolving to the site. I imagine this will resolve itself in the next 24-48 business hours.
> 
> ...



Unfortunately the site revolves around absolute URLs so this one probably won't work. Just shoot me a note if you haven't been able to enter yet and I'll slip you in myself...

Andy


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## WarmBeer (8/5/11)

Andyd said:


> Unfortunately the site revolves around absolute URLs so this one probably won't work. Just shoot me a note if you haven't been able to enter yet and I'll slip you in myself...
> 
> Andy


How about granting an extension to submissions until COB tomorrow?

Will save you receiving a ton of IM's, and we can assume everything with the DNS config should be hunky-dory by then.


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## Andyd (8/5/11)

WarmBeer said:


> How about granting an extension to submissions until COB tomorrow?
> 
> Will save you receiving a ton of IM's, and we can assume everything with the DNS config should be hunky-dory by then.



I think we can manage that - we're processing ejrties and doing final prep during the week, so as long as it's up before we do that it should be fine. I'll talk to the boys about how long we can stretch it out...

Andy


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## Andyd (8/5/11)

Looks like whatever nameserves were misbehaving on the US link have come good, and we're alive again!

I'll keep the entry page open until midnight tomorrow for anyone who has missed out because of the trouble.

Cheers!

Andy


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## reVoxAHB (9/5/11)

Andyd said:


> Looks like whatever nameserves were misbehaving on the US link have come good, and we're alive again!
> 
> I'll keep the entry page open until midnight tomorrow for anyone who has missed out because of the trouble.
> 
> ...



Awesome.


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## Wolfy (9/5/11)

Andyd said:


> Looks like whatever nameserves were misbehaving on the US link have come good, and we're alive again!
> 
> I'll keep the entry page open until midnight tomorrow for anyone who has missed out because of the trouble.


Was fine for me earlier, seems to be cactus again (and some DNS misconfiguration too).


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## Andyd (10/5/11)

It's good at the moment - I just shut off the entries...

I'll have to investigate this further - obviously not something I want to have happening in future!

I did do some tests via a US VPN provider, and could get to the website fune, so it was most probably a local nameserver playing funny buggers...

Wolfy - if you haven't got your entries in, let me know and I'll open it up for you.

Andy


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## haysie (10/5/11)

HoppingMad said:


> Didn't think you were FJ. Was a fair comment about some old timers not wanting to learn a new trick on the entry front.
> 
> I guess what you're suggesting could be a difference between Westgate & MB - being that our 'mature' brewers don't tend to enter much anymore (it's left with the Gen y/x'ers as someone here put it  ) - and that's a real shame as some of their beers are darn amazing. I
> 
> Hopper.



Yeah I "put it" Hopper. If the old guys dont want to learn the new ropes.. fair enough! Discard them, refer to them as Carpetbombers, this is the norm isnt it? dont tiptoe thru the tulips, call it as it really is.... rebuilding phase.


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## brett mccluskey (10/5/11)

haysie said:


> Yeah I "put it" Hopper. If the old guys dont want to learn the new ropes.. fair enough! Discard them, refer to them as Carpetbombers, this is the norm isnt it? dont tiptoe thru the tulips, call it as it really is.... rebuilding phase.


WTF are you on about Haysie?


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## HoppingMad (11/5/11)

Toper, from what I can understand, this guy has a problem with a computer program he dislikes.
He also dislikes program likers who should be disliking what he dislikes. 
I fall into that category so I have been instantly disliked. 

Back on topic, enjoy British Ale Comps people. If you go along to Oscars on the Sunday, I daresay you will like it too!

Cheers & Beers,  

Hopper


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## fcmcg (11/5/11)

haysie said:


> Yeah I "put it" Hopper. If the old guys dont want to learn the new ropes.. fair enough! Discard them, refer to them as Carpetbombers, this is the norm isnt it? dont tiptoe thru the tulips, call it as it really is.... rebuilding phase.


 The "old guy" at Westgate is a well regarded and awarded brewer who simply just loves the hobby .He is generous to a fault . He only said to me he was dissapointed about online entries only because he wanted to support MB and their comp as he genuinely believes in supporting all the brew clubs in Melbourne . He has more brew gear than anyone i know and he is that eager to learn , he is doing the 5 day course at Ballarat in September. His passion for the hobby won't be on the wain simply because he can't enter one competition. Knowing him , he'll probably asquiesce , buy a computer and be on AHB telling all us gen x/y ers , before we know it , how to brew a competition winning beer.As for rebuilding...well HE and his adjenda is the reason a brew club i know is in the black for the first time in years....
Not wanting to re-ignite all the worms...just letting you guys know...
Cheers
Ferg


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## Wolfy (11/5/11)

fergthebrewer said:


> Not wanting to re-ignite all the worms...just letting you guys know...


Now that Andy has added the ability to have entries from multiple people per account, and with a little bit of assistance from other club-members and/or the participating hand-in-location LHB shops, does that not not resolve the issue?


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## fcmcg (11/5/11)

Wolfy said:


> Now that Andy has added the ability to have entries from multiple people per account, and with a little bit of assistance from other club-members and/or the participating hand-in-location LHB shops, does that not not resolve the issue?



yes mate , it does...
Guess i was just responding to the hopper/haysie posts re the older brew club members...


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## Andyd (12/5/11)

It will, once I add that in... Thought I might be able to slip it in overnight last week, but it its a bit bigger than that. Will aim to add it shortly after British...

Cheers...


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## haysie (12/5/11)

fergthebrewer said:


> The "old guy" at Westgate is a well regarded and awarded brewer who simply just loves the hobby .He is generous to a fault . He only said to me he was dissapointed about online entries only because he wanted to support MB and their comp as he genuinely believes in supporting all the brew clubs in Melbourne . He has more brew gear than anyone i know and he is that eager to learn , he is doing the 5 day course at Ballarat in September. His passion for the hobby won't be on the wain simply because he can't enter one competition. Knowing him , he'll probably asquiesce , buy a computer and be on AHB telling all us gen x/y ers , before we know it , how to brew a competition winning beer.As for rebuilding...well HE and his adjenda is the reason a brew club i know is in the black for the first time in years....
> Not wanting to re-ignite all the worms...just letting you guys know...
> Cheers
> Ferg



In perspective, you are lucky enough to have this enthusiasm at your club with the old guys. Sure he wont enter one competition, but why shouldnt he be able to enter this?? This is a Vicbrew sanctioned comp correct? With very unfair entry rules that IMO should not be on the Vicbrew calendar until they (MB`s) sort some sort of 1/ a website that works AND 2/ an entry process that is open to everybody. Its just an inhouse comp that should have no relevance whatsoever to Vicbrew.
It just happens AndyD, sits on both Vicbrew and MB`s, thats where I come from, do as they can.

@FJ, i dont see your point re the saving of the trees. Homebrewing competitions should be affordable and discounting online entries is only rowing your own boat as I see it. Its moreso a do it this way or "pay" approach.

@ Hopper, All parts right, I have said it before its wrong, you want to turn things the way of the future, run it inhouse first.


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