# Esky For Mash Tun



## lukasfab (21/10/11)

so guys can you please tell me what the advantage is using an esky

seeing a lot in the manifold thread but didn't wont to derail it


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## IainMcLean (21/10/11)

Cheaper than stainless steel pots, already insulated so it holds heat excellently and usually has a tap so you don't need to drill it.


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## bignath (21/10/11)

lukasfab said:


> so guys can you please tell me what the advantage is using an esky
> 
> seeing a lot in the manifold thread but didn't wont to derail it



Compared to what? Using a keg? Using a stockpot on the stove? Using a bag as in BIAB?

If you're doing 2 or 3 vessel brewing, using an esky is a good alternative to a stainless keg in the sense that they are quite lightweight (even an empy keg is quite heavy), but more importantly they hold their temp very well due to their inbuilt insulation. You don't have to wrap up an esky with doona covers and other stuff (unless you live in an even colder part of the country than me).

The thing that sucks about using an esky, is that if you want to ramp temp's for mashouts or for different types of mash rests, you can't direct heat your esky. You have to go about it other ways. You can however apply heat directly to a keg mash tun.

If you are trying to compare it against using a bag and doing BIAB, someone who does biab will be more qualified than me to discuss that (im 3 vessel). My brain tells me in theory that you would potentially end up with clearer wort using a dedicated mash tun as it is probably easier to recirculate before draining and the grain bed in the esky mash tun (or keg mash tun) acts as a filter to keep unwanted grain husks and debris from getting into your boiler. 
But as i said, i'm a 3V not BIAB so others will have more accurate info on this.

Nath


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## pk.sax (21/10/11)

The way I saw it, if I had the space available, an esky would've been nice, I'd be able use a third vessel as an HLT and that'd be it, but right now I'm building towards a 2v setup so directly fired keg mash run seemed a good choice. Although, can always use the keggle to boil water for mashing into an esky tun.

In practice, I find that keg mash tuns don't lose much temp. The thermal mass of all that metal must somehow help stabilize it. Used my keggle for BIAB, I can attest to it that it's quite hard to force the temperature down in a hurry in a keg mash tun without some effort.


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## mje1980 (21/10/11)

I've just started mucking around with step mashing in my esky. Way easier than you'd think. A pot of boiling water on the stove. Pretty easy, i've only done a few, but im pretty comfortable with it now. 


Cleaning up an esky is a lot easier than cleaning a SS keg with 7 or 8kg of wet grain in it too. Each way has pros/cons i guess


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## IainMcLean (21/10/11)

practicalfool said:


> In practice, I find that keg mash tuns don't lose much temp. The thermal mass of all that metal must somehow help stabilize it.



the thermal conductivity of aluminium @ 25 degrees C is 200W/(m.K) whereas Stainless is 16W/(m.K) - that means in comparison very little heat passes through stainless or... you could look at it that aluminium works like a radiator and throws the heat out to the surrounding area.


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## Bats (21/10/11)

Most people have eskies lying around that can be converted into mash tuns.

Eskies and keggle mash tuns both have their good points but I use an esky with copper manifold. It holds temperature perfectly and when I'm not using it for mashing, the manifold easily comes out converting it back to a good old esky again.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (21/10/11)

Get onto youtube and type BABBs ghetto - and the systems wars videos will come up - they use an esky mash tun with a separate mayo bucket lauter tun and a BOD.

That'll answer most of it. 

I BIAB, but this is the video that's got me considering a trip to get some white plastic pails and put my poor DIY skills to the test.

From a BIAB point of view - the biggest advantage (other than cost) is that it is really space effective. Given everyone has a doona, it isn't hard to insulate. It really comes down to making great AG beer with what is normally around the house, rather than purpose built equipment.

Goomba


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## Muscovy_333 (21/10/11)

Im relatively new to AG, but my eski tun works a treat. 
The manifold set up inside my eski is just to speed up drainage and avoid your grain bed packing down and blocking completely. When you are draining you need to "sparge" water gently over the top of your grain so as not to disturb it, hence using the grain bed as a filter. This is where the manifold earns its keep. I usually lay a small strip of aluminium foil over my grain bed while im sparging because i do not have a sparge set up yet. I gently pour/siphon my heated sparge water onto the foil and it trickles in over the grain. If i want t0 recirc my wort i do it much the same way.
I always have a 20 litres pot of boiling water on hand and a bucket of cold water to adjust temp of water as i need it. (To get 78C sparge water i add approx 80% boiled to 20% cold, take a temp reading and adjust according).

Im not an expert but I am making better beers than i can buy already.
My only advice is planning as best you can, preparation and logic.....Your first couple of batches will be all about figuring your equipment out (particulalry what you need for next time).
I started AG on ambers as the malt was more forgiving..
Hope i'm not telling you how to suck eggs, but it sounds like your setting up for AG so i have made some assumptions

Musc

Good luck!

water


lukasfab said:


> so guys can you please tell me what the advantage is using an esky
> 
> seeing a lot in the manifold thread but didn't wont to derail it


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## lukasfab (21/10/11)

yes i do BIAB on the stove in one pot as per the $30 BIAB thread,
only done 2 brews so far but i love the results so guess I'm trying to learn how I can adapt things

so when you guys are using the esky, the grain goes straight in, no bag?
i have read about using the grain bed as a filter, i guess i could use my 19l pot to heat up mash water, mash in esky, then boil back in the 19l pot ?

at this stage im using one of those bullet choppers/grinders for the grain, would this cause a lot of trub as its nearly like flour?
will my trub reduce once I get a mill?

thanks


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## bignath (21/10/11)

lukasfab said:


> yes i do BIAB on the stove in one pot as per the $30 BIAB thread,
> only done 2 brews so far but i love the results so guess I'm trying to learn how I can adapt things
> 
> so when you guys are using the esky, the grain goes straight in, no bag?
> ...



Yep, no bag required with an esky mash tun. Some people still use on, but it's not required, and just means something else to clean later.

A grain mill won't necessarily (setting dependant) change anything about your grain crush apart from making it more consistent. I started cracking my grain when i was doing kits with some specialty malts by using a coffee grinder, and then i just used a rolling pin. The coffee grinder was quicker but did a shit job. The rolling pin did a much better job, but was stupidly labour intensive. 

What the grain mill will do, is give you repeatable results every time with minimal effort. The amount of trub you get will depend on many things, but as far as a crush is concerned, it'll depend on the gap setting of your mill.


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## pk.sax (21/10/11)

a roller mill will actually leave the husks of the grain intact, those are what end up making the grain bed. The larger the grain husk pieces, the better the filter bed. As you recirculate a bit, the loose crap trapped under the husks near the manifold gets transferred to the top of the filter bed, eventually giving clear wort.

A coffee grinder shreds the husks into tiny ineffective pieces.


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## Yob (21/10/11)

practicalfool said:


> A coffee grinder shreds the husks into tiny ineffective pieces.



^+1 - Im *so* pleased to throw that piece of shit back to the kitchen never to be seen in the brewery again.


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## bignath (21/10/11)

practicalfool said:


> a roller mill will actually leave the husks of the grain intact, those are what end up making the grain bed. The larger the grain husk pieces, the better the filter bed. As you recirculate a bit, the loose crap trapped under the husks near the manifold gets transferred to the top of the filter bed, eventually giving clear wort.
> 
> A coffee grinder shreds the husks into tiny ineffective pieces.



Agreed completely. 

Not trying to nitpick, but just for the OP's information as it seems like it could be appropriate but a mill can also completely shred husks if it's not adjusted properly. The way i worded my previous post was trying to highlight that a mill isn't necessarily a magical tool that will instantly make everything better. Still needs to be thought about, and used correctly to answer his question.


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## lukasfab (21/10/11)

cheers guys, thanks for the youtube link to that was good to watch

i like the esky idea, what size esky is recomended to do 23l batches?


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## yardy (21/10/11)

lukasfab said:


> *so when you guys are using the esky, the grain goes straight in, no bag?
> i have read about using the grain bed as a filter, i guess i could use my 19l pot to heat up mash water, mash in esky, then boil back in the 19l pot ?
> thanks*



mate, when i linked you back to your own _bulk buy for grain_ in the manifold thread i thought you were taking the piss asking what a manifold was for, sorry about that.

have you read 'How To Brew' by John Palmer ?

this is the section on how to build a mash tun.

this is a cheap and easy tun to build on a budget.

cheers

Yard


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## bignath (21/10/11)

lukasfab said:


> cheers guys, thanks for the youtube link to that was good to watch
> 
> i like the esky idea, what size esky is recomended to do 23l batches?



Depends on how "big" you want your beers to be. Without putting this through the ole' calculator, my gut tells me you should be right to brew average strength beers to 23lt with maybe a 19lt cooler???

My esky is 38lt and i can do double batches of average strength (4-5%ABV) comfortably. I brew to 20lt into fermenter, which leaves some losses post fermentation and gives me full kegs.


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## lukasfab (21/10/11)

yardy said:


> mate, when i linked you back to your own _bulk buy for grain_ in the manifold thread i thought you were taking the piss asking what a manifold was for, sorry about that.
> 
> have you read 'How To Brew' by John Palmer ?
> 
> ...



yeah didn't know why you linked me back to that  
all good, yes i found the john palmer how to brew, good stuff


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## pk.sax (21/10/11)

@Nath, yea. Absolutely. They are simple to control though. right gap, right speed and bob's ur uncle's brother.

@Iain. Totally agree, wasn't trying to see a keg to OP so didn't say too much. It's overlooked that with the lower conductivity and the higher thermal mass, steel keggles lose bugger all temp, are cheap, very very easy to clean and easy to ramp directly. It's not a copper/aluminum kettle that would be more suitable as a chilling vessel!!! Hehe.

PS: I'd use an esky if I had one lying around. I got the keg, am very happy abt it and would've had to buy an esky.


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## Muscovy_333 (21/10/11)

I use a 55 litre Eski, approximate 5kg grain bill, yields approx 28litres into the boil pot, rolling boil for an hour or so to work it back to 24 litre batches, lose a bit transferring between vessels, 23litres into the ferm.
Rough guide on my part....but I'm happy.
I find 55 litres gives me heaps of flexibility. I'm also working toward larger batches.

You sound like you are right on track.
The guys on the forum will fill any gaps you have...they are ACE!


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## Wolfman (21/10/11)

Big Nath said:


> Depends on how "big" you want your beers to be. Without putting this through the ole' calculator, my gut tells me you should be right to brew average strength beers to 23lt with maybe a 19lt cooler???
> 
> My esky is 38lt and i can do double batches of average strength (4-5%ABV) comfortably. I brew to 20lt into fermenter, which leaves some losses post fermentation and gives me full kegs.






Muscovy said:


> I use a 55 litre Eski, approximate 5kg grain bill, yields approx 28litres into the boil pot, rolling boil for an hour or so to work it back to 24 litre batches, lose a bit transferring between vessels, 23litres into the ferm.
> Rough guide on my part....but I'm happy.
> I find 55 litres gives me heaps of flexibility. I'm also working toward larger batches.
> 
> ...



What's your trub loss in your boiler like? I BIAB and i'm getting about 6=7 litres of trub in the bottom. Not happy with that. Does using the a 2V or 3V yeild less trub??


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## Muscovy_333 (21/10/11)

Far from the expert on this topic. The advantage of the 2V/3V is that you can easily recirc (lauter??) your drained wort back over the grain bed and it filters a lot of the trub out of your wort. (even if you have to do it by hand using a jug)
I am sure i have seen BIAB brewers on this forum developing similar methods to recirculate ("Bribie" rings a bell??)

I skim my hot break with a strainer instead of a spoon to reduce losses, and i also use the same strainer for the last bit of the boiler i pour off. I'd be lucky to lose 1 litre to trub (more likely 500ml)

I'd hate to lose 6 to 7 litres to trub.
There is a thread running at the moment for BIABers and false bottoms, i'm sure...do a quick search.




shan0066 said:


> What's your trub loss in your boiler like? I BIAB and i'm getting about 6=7 litres of trub in the bottom. Not happy with that. Does using the a 2V or 3V yeild less trub??


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## pk.sax (21/10/11)

shan0066 said:


> What's your trub loss in your boiler like? I BIAB and i'm getting about 6=7 litres of trub in the bottom. Not happy with that. Does using the a 2V or 3V yeild less trub??


do you use any type/shape/form of bladed grinder?

i.e. coffee grinder/food processor?


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## Wolfman (21/10/11)

practicalfool said:


> do you use any type/shape/form of bladed grinder?
> 
> i.e. coffee grinder/food processor?



Nar mate got me a mill. Have been playing with the gap and havent gone under 1mm but been right out to 2.5mm. 

Efficiency is pretty good, haven't worked that out exactly, but i'm always close to my completed boil mark.


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## pk.sax (21/10/11)

that amount of trub would badly trouble my sleep....

you do whirlpool?

you do use a kettle flocculation agent? like whirlfloc/irish moss?

I'd take your trub, bottle it (demi-john!?) and refridgerate it to see the next morning how much of it is actually trub!!!

I have my mill at the credit card width, which was a notch tighter than the neutral setting from the factory. I got maybe 2 Ltr of trub (incl cold breask) doing BIAB!


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## Spork (21/10/11)

6-7 litres? On a single batch? Wow...
What grain bag are you using? Do you use a hop sock?
I measured the volume of liquid my crownie holds below the tap when level @ 2 litres. I tilt the urn once it's down to that and get anothr 500-1000 mL into the cube. 1 - 1.5 litres of trub. I use the CB Grainbag and hopsock - very fine mesh. Grain is milled with gap setting by credit card. Mill RPM is not well controlled: Black and Decker crank handle. Looking to upgrade to "proper" motor for mill..
Koppafloc and whirlpool.


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## gavinl (21/10/11)

Very interesting topic. I'm wondering, stainless steel false bottom or copper manifold? What's the diff?


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## bignath (21/10/11)

shan0066 said:


> What's your trub loss in your boiler like? I BIAB and i'm getting about 6=7 litres of trub in the bottom. Not happy with that. Does using the a 2V or 3V yeild less trub??



Holy shit, if i was losing that much each batch, it'd hardly be worth brewing at all. There's definitely something weird going on here....

I add whirfloc @ 10-15mins before end of the boil, at the recommended dosage. At the end of the boil, i wait until the heat currents die off a bit and then whirlpool. My boiler is a 50lt keg. I lose around 500ml to crap i can't be bothered dealing with at the end of the transfer to an awaiting cube.

Seriously, my trub losses are really small. I get a good, vigorous boil going, whirfloc, whirlpool, open the tap and let it drain to cube, and there is approx less than an iced coffee carton of shit left in my boiler.


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## pk.sax (21/10/11)

I've brewed on the stove, no whirfloc/Irish moss, siphoned to cube etc., all in the one brew and lost bugger all to trub. There is something weird going on there.


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## Wolfman (24/10/11)

Cheers for the replies. I do use Irish [email protected] and whirlpoof.
So I have done some searching and found on you tube BABB's Ghetto brewing. Used the esky, made up a Ghetto Tun and got less than 1L of trub! Well some thing has been going horribly wrong for me! 

Seeya BIAB I got me some Ghetto gear now!!!!


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## Muscovy_333 (24/10/11)

Its all about the Ghetto gear. 
When you find your Ghetto working for you...thats when it's worth pimping it up!
Glad to hear your back on track



shan0066 said:


> Cheers for the replies. I do use Irish [email protected] and whirlpoof.
> So I have done some searching and found on you tube BABB's Ghetto brewing. Used the esky, made up a Ghetto Tun and got less than 1L of trub! Well some thing has been going horribly wrong for me!
> 
> Seeya BIAB I got me some Ghetto gear now!!!!


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