# Grow Your Own Barley



## apd (12/2/09)

For anyone interested in going further than just growing your own hops:

Article on The Tyee.


Andrew


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## boingk (12/2/09)

Crud, man...that'd be taking it to the max, wouldn't it?

I remember my father and I having a discussion on this when we were just talking crud over beer. He said something along the lines of "I'll have a shot at building a shed, sure, but I reckon' I'd stop short of mining the damn ore!" 

I suppose it'd really put it into perspective though...what goes into a beer.

- boingk


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## raven19 (12/2/09)

I think I will be more inclined to just grab a 25kg bag of malting barley from my brother in laws father for a small fee... then setup a malting shed! :lol:


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## horner34 (12/2/09)

good luck on growing malting grade barley


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## stueywhytcross (12/2/09)

apd said:


> For anyone interested in going further than just growing your own hops:
> 
> Article on The Tyee.
> 
> ...


one thing to grow barley, however growing it to fit within malting specs (8-12% protien) on a small scale would be extremely difficult.


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## RobB (12/2/09)

I took the easy way out and married a farmer's daughter. Although, approaching our ninth anniversary, perhaps it wasn't so easy after all.............


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## white.grant (13/2/09)

There's a video on basic brewing that has little bit of information about growing barley linky. 

cheers

grant


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## afromaiko (13/2/09)

boingk said:


> I remember my father and I having a discussion on this when we were just talking crud over beer. He said something along the lines of "I'll have a shot at building a shed, sure, but I reckon' I'd stop short of mining the damn ore!"



:icon_offtopic: Reminds me of The Toaster Project, some dude is making his own toaster from scratch.. beginning with getting some iron ore!


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## pint of lager (13/2/09)

This is one thing I really like about brewing beer, it is so diverse. Some people aim for winning competitions, others build fantastic bars or their very own PIC controlled brewing sculpture, others make beer brewing into a career while the farmers and back to basics will grow their own barley, malt it and brew with it. They won't know the exact specs, but neither does a home hop grower know the specs on their cones.


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## jayse (13/2/09)

horner34 said:


> good luck on growing malting grade barley


thats what even the farmers are saying these days, let alone some brewer in the country with a acre down the back to give it a go in.


Fool in the rain
Jayse


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## boingk (13/2/09)

afromaiko said:


> ...Toaster Project...


Thats exactly what I mean, and that guy knows exactly what I'm on about; what happens if the world takes a collossal turn down the sucker? Well, by my reckoning it'd be chaos for a while and then probably stabalise somewhere around where we were in...say...the 18th to 19th centuries. Maybe a bit before seeing as we've plundered a whole lot of readily available natural rescources. Nothing fantastically advanced, just simple, acheivable material technologies coupled with some essential knowledge. I for one wouldn't have a huge regret. Sure information super-highways, fast cars, cheap mass-produced items and whacko-fantastic medical sciences are nice to have, but I reckon ol' Thomas is onto something. 

I think we're losing who we are. I'm 20, and I know people who would rather talk to somone over the internet than walk into a room full of their friends not six feet away, people who are only barely aware of how to communicate in real life - as opposed to via instant messaging or over the phone. People who think the most important date on their calendar is the DVD release for the next series of some POS show made halfway 'round the world.

Frankly, I reckon they need a reality check.

Yours introspectively [and perhaps sadly?] - boingk


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## brendanos (14/2/09)

Not a bad idea to grow wheat. Doesn't need malting if you're using it in a Belgian Wit, a Lambic, or to make pizza. You could prob get away with a cereal boil or a turbid mash or something to that effect to boost your fermentables.

I'm a fan, and plan to convert most of my back yard into a cereal crop for fun.


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## Airgead (17/2/09)

boingk said:


> Thats exactly what I mean, and that guy knows exactly what I'm on about; what happens if the world takes a collossal turn down the sucker? Well, by my reckoning it'd be chaos for a while and then probably stabalise somewhere around where we were in...say...the 18th to 19th centuries. Maybe a bit before seeing as we've plundered a whole lot of readily available natural rescources. Nothing fantastically advanced, just simple, acheivable material technologies coupled with some essential knowledge. I for one wouldn't have a huge regret. Sure information super-highways, fast cars, cheap mass-produced items and whacko-fantastic medical sciences are nice to have, but I reckon ol' Thomas is onto something.
> 
> I think we're losing who we are. I'm 20, and I know people who would rather talk to somone over the internet than walk into a room full of their friends not six feet away, people who are only barely aware of how to communicate in real life - as opposed to via instant messaging or over the phone. People who think the most important date on their calendar is the DVD release for the next series of some POS show made halfway 'round the world.
> 
> ...



:icon_offtopic: 

<RANT>

I'm with you boing. Although I work in IT (which lets face it will be the first thing to go when society crumbles), I think the most valuable things I do are growing veggies for my family in the back yard and building my house on weekends. I haven't gone to the full extent of growing the timber though.

As for facebook, I know people my age (37) who refuse to communicate any other way. Won't take phone calls, don't reply to email. Meet them in the street and all they say is "everything we do is on facebook you can check it out there" then walk away. 

We're turning into a race of socially inadequate recluses. Just wait till they invent virtual sex. No one will ever leave their home again and the human race will perish.

</RANT>

I love the idea of growing barley. I think its too hard to do as an individual though. Maybe a brewers collective - plant a few acres. Share the cost/labour and the crop when its harvested.

Cheers
Dave


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## jeremy (17/2/09)

I seriously wouldnt bother. Malting grade barley is the best grade a farmer can hope for their barley to go. If you grow your own crop you couldnt expect to get specs good enough to go Malting grade, and even if by some fluke you did you would struggle to do it proud malting it yourself. Good quality Malt comes from high quality Barley grown by professionals, malted by professional malsters to achieve the approximate required specs, and blended with other malt to correct any inadequacies in hitting the specifications initally. Growing this type of thing yourself on a micro scale would be interesting, but to produce a reasonable amount of grain to make it worth your while, and have it anywhere near the quality of a purchased malt would be nigh on impossible. You would be better served spending the time, effort and money on something more worthwhile...

If you are interested in malting your own Barley (which I personally wouldnt be bothered with either), and in the idea of acquiring some fresh barley, I think the best option would be to contact a farmer who regularly acheives a high grade barley, and buy some from them. If you were dead keen you could ask if they could grab a few bags from the header after reaping what they would deem to be the ideal section of crop from a paddock.

A farmer doesn't malt a maltster doesn't brew, why would a brewer want to do all three? Stick to what your good at!


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## Thirsty Boy (18/2/09)

odd - people here obviously think that they can make beer of just a high standard as large commercial brewers. Sure, less equipment and knowledge... but no commercial pressures, no worries about having to supply a market volume, no worries about the actual cost.. that makes up for it. Its craft and you can lavish your individual attention on it to make up for any other deficits.

But ... apparently you can't grow malting quality barley?? Even on a scale where cow poo would be a viable fertiliser, you could pull the weeds by hand and flick off the caterpillars personally.

A bit of research about the appropriate variety for your climate, planting density and care. I see no reason you would have less chance of producing decent quality barley than you would of producing lovely tomatoes. Yeah, maybe not A grade #1... but I can tell you the malt going around at the moment isn't being made from A grade #1 barley anyway. And beer still gets made.

A bit of sieving to weed out the undersizes and you are ready to go malting.

It would be labour intensive, costly, you would probably get lousy yield - and at the end of it you would still have buckleys of finishing with a product close to the quality churned out by the truckload at the big maltsters...................

But maybe you have fun and get a sense of satisfaction from having gone from dirt to glass all by yourself.

I see the attraction


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## tommygun (18/2/09)

It is possible but I would think to get any amount of grain useful you would need atleast a few hundred sq m of land and the amount of time put into hand picking crops, controling pests, disease ands weeds you can give up AG brewing you wouldn't have time!

Not to mention I don't think there are many grain varieties which grow well close to the coast bit too humid and you get so many diseases such as rust etc. so anyone along the east coast can forget it.

Being a keen gardener and horticulturist and grow my own vegies and stuff at home I would leaving grain growing to the farmers who have the equipment, land and years of know to do it. Growing a organic Hops at home is great idea, which reminds me I really should look into getting some rhizomes.


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## jeremy (18/2/09)

Thirsty Boy said:


> odd - people here obviously think that they can make beer of just a high standard as large commercial brewers. Sure, less equipment and knowledge... but no commercial pressures, no worries about having to supply a market volume, no worries about the actual cost.. that makes up for it. Its craft and you can lavish your individual attention on it to make up for any other deficits.
> 
> But ... apparently you can't grow malting quality barley?? Even on a scale where cow poo would be a viable fertiliser, you could pull the weeds by hand and flick off the caterpillars personally.
> 
> ...




I'm not saying it's impossible, merely highly improbable. It is MUCH MUCH easier to brew an AG beer with pots and pans, colanders and stuff you find around the home than it is to grow 6kg of barley to a standard approximating malting barley with your backyard and your bare hands. As tg mentioned, you are unlikely to get the quantity required out of a pot plant, you will still need a sizeable area (according to the original article you would need 10 feet by 20 feet at least to produce 6 kilo), and without the right equipment (you are hardly going to get a header in your backyard), you will have to give up your day job AND brewing entirely to "flick off the catepillars". I see the appeal, I just suggest that its not a plausible option.

And once the barley is grown we need to worry about malting it!

I prefer the idea of sourcing barley from a farm, like a craft winemaker would source their grapes. You can then get the benefit of hand selecting professionally grown malting barley.


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## Darren (18/2/09)

I have been wondering along similar lines. Does anyone know if you can buy malting grade barley?. One of the wizz bang automatic malting machines ($100K) and you would be off and running.

cheers

Darren


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## jonocarroll (18/2/09)

jeremy said:


> I prefer the idea of sourcing barley from a farm, like a craft winemaker would source their grapes. You can then get the benefit of hand selecting professionally grown malting barley.


And if you buy a kit you can have the benefit of selecting professionally dehydrated, hopped liquid malt extract. And if you buy a bottle of beer you have the benefit of selecting a professionally produced end product. You've missed the point. Winemakers source their grapes when the one's they've grown aren't what they want.

I agree with the sentiments that there would be a profound sense of accomplishment from growing one's own barley for a brew. The obstacles mentioned can all be overcome with patience and learning. To those who say it "can't" be done, I'm sure someone has said the same thing about growing one's own hops (done), culturing your own yeast (done) and reproducing an exact water profile (done). To those who say that the quality "won't be worth the effort" that can only be judged once the effort has been made. Who knows? Perhaps a bunch of brewers manage to obtain a large enough area, get some good know-how from a real grower, and get it done. I'll remind people that the Top Gear blokes were challenged to grow and make their own bio-diesel, and (IIRC) although they grew the wrong crop, they still managed to make something.

To say that it won't be the same as professional malt is obvious. But then, all-grain brewing isn't like professional brewing - it's better  This point has nagged at me in the back of my mind - (without drawing in the comparison) kit beers are frowned upon because they take a shortcut, by introducing a product that you have purchased. The ultimate all-grain beer would of course be made from the barley you malt yourself, hops you grow yourself, and yeast you culture yourself. At the moment, all the AG brewers are comfortable to skip the first condition, for reasons that have been clearly, and rightly pointed out. To add that last one would be incredible though, wouldn't it?

Looking forward to seeing if anyone takes the challenge and gets a working group going.


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## Thirsty Boy (18/2/09)

For years I watched my insane father crawl around the yard and pluck single leaved weed plants, lone insects and so help me god even individual foreign seeds off our lawn - all in an effort to grow nothing more useful than lush green grass. Edged, mowed, aerated, fertilized, watered, seeded.... hell, one time he dug the whole bloody 1/4 acre up and sieved ALL the topsoil because he thought that would get rid of all the seeds from weed plants.

Hundreds of hours, multiple hundreds of dollars - for green grass. Fair enough, he was a mad old bastard - but I bet everyone knows somebody who is that obsessive about their lawn.

So you toss $15 at some local kid to mow your lawn and lavish your attention on a 10 x 20 foot patch of a different type of grass... I suspect you could probably grow something decent.

As for needing a header..... its the size of a vege patch, you could harvest it with scissors in an afternoon. Heard of a sickle?


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## jeremy (18/2/09)

QuantumBrewer said:


> And if you buy a kit you can have the benefit of selecting professionally dehydrated, hopped liquid malt extract. And if you buy a bottle of beer you have the benefit of selecting a professionally produced end product. You've missed the point. Winemakers source their grapes when the one's they've grown aren't what they want.
> 
> I agree with the sentiments that there would be a profound sense of accomplishment from growing one's own barley for a brew. The obstacles mentioned can all be overcome with patience and learning. To those who say it "can't" be done, I'm sure someone has said the same thing about growing one's own hops (done), culturing your own yeast (done) and reproducing an exact water profile (done). To those who say that the quality "won't be worth the effort" that can only be judged once the effort has been made. Who knows? Perhaps a bunch of brewers manage to obtain a large enough area, get some good know-how from a real grower, and get it done. I'll remind people that the Top Gear blokes were challenged to grow and make their own bio-diesel, and (IIRC) although they grew the wrong crop, they still managed to make something.
> 
> ...




Vineyard owners source their grapes when the one's they've grown aren't what they want. Winemakers do not. Hobbyists certianly do not, they know better than to try to grow their own grapes when they would get a better product by buying good grapes off professionals who have vineyards setup in areas that are specifically chosen for the type of wine they are trying to make.

I am of those who say that the quality "won't be worth the effort" and while I will admit I havent made the effort personally, I grew up on a Wheat and Barley farm, where I was involved in my younger years with cropping. In addition to this I currently work for one of Australias largest grain handling businesses, and do quite a bit of work for its fully owned subsidiary malting company.

Growing one's own hops is EASY, culturing your own yeast IS EASY and reproducing an exact water profile IS EASY. Growing barley, and malting it, is prohibitively difficult. 

You could do it, you might even end up with a beer, but its not the same as growing hops, or growing grass for that matter. You make craft beer because you can make something more interesting, unique, and better than megaswill. The same is NOT true for barley / malt. Apart from the satisfaction of building a beer from the ground up you are effectively getting nothing from it, the amount of effort involved is massive, the yield is small, the potential of producing a beer that tastes better than what you could have made with store bought malt is negligable, and the potential for producing a crap beer is huge. I just dont think its worth it.


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## apd (18/2/09)

Thirsty Boy said:


> As for needing a header..... its the size of a vege patch, you could harvest it with scissors in an afternoon. Heard of a sickle?



Indeed!

According to the article, there are 4 days of work, hardly a massive effort:



> ...plant your crop, then show up for at least three subsequent days -- two or more to tend (weed) your plot, and one to harvest and thresh, using a low-tech plywood threshing box and a standard household fan to separate the wheat from the chaff.



And from some further research, threshing can be done by sticking sheaves in a pillow case (maybe the same pillowcase you use for your BIAB!) and giving it a whack. Winnowing just needs a stiff breeze or a fan. So no special equipment, just stuff you already have.

I think we sometimes get caught up in thinking that because the pros do something a certain way that we have to do it that way. Sure, it might not be efficient to harvest and process 1000s of hectares of barley with a sickle and a pillow case but as a back yard gardener, that's not relevant. I'll be harvesting a tiny fraction of that. Jeremy, this seems to be where you're coming from. You see what goes on in a commercial operation and can't see a small-scale method.

And as for "malting grade", sure, if I ran my crop through the analysis it probably wouldn't stack up. But "malting grade" is another standard set for commercial use. My beer is for me. I doubt my palate would notice a difference in the end product even if I perfected every other aspect of brewing.

Andrew


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## alowen474 (18/2/09)

Even an average return for a producer is 1 tonne per acre(4000m2).
I can't imagine you would want more than 20kg, so you would want around 80m2.
In this size you could water and fertilise well, so you could halve that and still expect the same quantity.

You would sow about 1kg of seed barley in this area.

Wait 6 months and harvest away.

Malting grade barley has properties as said before to suit big brewers, but a lot of average barley ends up at the maltsters when the barley is needed and can be used just fine for any tasty beer.

Malting on the other hand, steep for a day,
Keep moist and warm for a week,
Dry back slowly for a couple of days and your done.

Would be very satisfying and a wonderful 100L of beer you have made.

Big effort, but not impossible.


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## jeremy (18/2/09)

apd said:


> Indeed!
> 
> According to the article, there are 4 days of work, hardly a massive effort:
> 
> ...




Hmmm, it might be 4 days work on a small plot amongst thousands of others in British Columbia, but here i would think you would want to fertilize, spray for weeds, add certain trace elements as needed, use pesticides, and depending on where you live water it from time to time. You would also want to pre-empt the crop by testing the soil and making necessary adjustments. Then once you have harvested the real work begins with malting it, and you wouldnt want to stuff THAT up after your time and efforts growing it, you cant grow a barley crop every week!

True enough that the barley doesnt necessarily need to be "Malting Grade", but you would undoubtedly be producing an inferior barley, and most definately an inferior malt to one money can buy. Why spend such an effort producing a malt which would struggle to stack up against something you could buy for $4 a kilo? With brewing you do it because you can create a superior product which you can control and shape to what you want in a beer, with this you cant control, probably cant even measure, what you want in a barley / malt, you have less control, rather than more.

Regardless of all this, if you have the room, the time, the money and the inclination, dig up some ground and give it a go. I am not against it, I just personally think its a bit of a waste of time. Plenty of people, would think this of lots of things I think are meaningful pursuits, brewing is definately among them. Where I come from if you cheerfully announced that you were going to grow 20kg of barley in your garden, people would piss themselves, and suggest they have 5000 acres of the stuff just up the road that you can help yourself to. If you arent within stones throw of a cereal cropped farm (or a short drive), maybe the area you live in is not the ideal place to be growing one?


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## stueywhytcross (18/2/09)

Id suggest that if you were thinking of growing your own grain and malting it. That for the first season, you throw a handful of seed into a small corner of your vege patch. Harvest it by hand, throw it in the oven and use a bit of it in some beers as roast barley, it will impart shit loads of flavour for minimum effort.
You can tell people you grew the grain your self, and not have to worry with all the stuffing around.

My parents are dry area farmers and grow a shitload of barley. We don't even bother walking into our 1000acre paddocks to get samples of grain (an icecream container full) to take to the teststand because we would be there for hours trying to rub out the grain from the husks and blow off the chaff. It is quicker to drive in our header and run it for 2 seconds. If you seriously think you are going to rub out 5kgs+ by hand you are kidding yourself.

Just my 2 cents.


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## stueywhytcross (18/2/09)

apd said:


> Indeed!
> 
> I doubt my palate would notice a difference in the end product
> 
> Andrew



No probably not so much in taste, but in efficiency yes.


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## jonocarroll (18/2/09)

jeremy said:


> Why spend such an effort producing a malt which would struggle to stack up against something you could buy for $4 a kilo? With brewing you do it because you can create a superior product which you can control and shape to what you want in a beer, with this you cant control, probably cant even measure, what you want in a barley / malt, you have less control, rather than more.


Why brew a beer when you can buy world-class award winning beers for under $10 per bottle? Craft brewing doesn't _necessarily_ make a superior product - it sh!ts all over megaswill, but I doubt people are considering taking on Unibroue for quality. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the point wasn't 'can I botch together what the maltsters make?' - which seems to have offended you as someone in that industry; no one will be able to make what the companies make. No one will be able to get even close to the quality. The point seemed to be 'can I grow my own barley and use it in a brew?'. 

Rather than flat-out discouraging, perhaps you can assist the people who are keen with some advice?


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## kook (18/2/09)

Hasn't pintoflager done this in the past?

I seem to remember one of the OCB members malting their own home-grown barley?


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## warra48 (18/2/09)

This is a fascinating other side to our hobby.
Nothing like going back to basics, and doing it all from scratch.

Now, for my next trick, I'm planning to start digging deep into my backyard to get myself some ore. I'm sure with a high pressure regulator on my burner I could get it hot enough to melt out the metal. Then I can make my own pots and kettles.

Seeing as I live in a largish coastal/country town, there's quite a few cattle around here. They produce lots of gas. If I could figure a way of harvesting and storing that gas, I'll be pretty close to totally self sufficient in my brewing.

Oh, I forgot, I need to plant some more hops.

Now, where did I put all those yeast cultures? I think I only need about 24 different varieties, and I'll be set for every eventuality.

I'm so glad I'm retired. I can now fill my days with nothing more than brewing related activities, and all at little cost. Brilliant.


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## pint of lager (18/2/09)

A couple of years ago, I did have a crack at growing some barley, but the drought beat me. Maybe one year, I will give growing barley another go.

I have malted lots of barley. Works just fine. The overall efficiency is down compared to store bought barley. If anyone wants to give it a go, there are heaps of links on the net to google up. Just do small batches. Out of the hundreds of kilos I malted, one batch failed, the chooks loved it.

You can apply all the same pros and cons arguments to bread making (freshly ground wheat makes a huge difference to the flavour,) cheese making (I read that raw milk from autumn milking cows is best), sausages (do I hear the word botulism?) coffee, pasta, curry pastes, fruit and vegetable growing, building houses, building antennas, servicing and repairing a vehicle, making knives, knitting, sewing or reloading ammunition. Some people even grow their own animals then slaughter, dress and eat them. A friend of ours reckons he is going to make a nuclear reactor in his garage.

You need to learn some new skills and have a bit of time and space. Some people are so wrapped up in earning a living, they have no spare time. They have to buy their beer, bread, cheese or whatever. How long do you sit of an evening watching TV? Most people have heaps of spare time. Enthusiasm and the desire to have a go, coupled with google means you can make bread, cheese, yoghurt, beer and grow fresh vegies.

Everyone has to make their own personal choice as to what to do with their time. Do they earn money and then pay for their goods?

As to making a toaster, I find that the kitchen wood stove has a nice bed of coals, perfect for making toast. Nothing like toast made over wood coals.


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## jeremy (18/2/09)

EDIT: In reply to quantumbrewers post (btw, all in good fun, cant resist a good argument!)

My point is that you might not make a superior product, but rarely would you dedicate 6 months worth of work with no potential benefit at all, rather than the thrill of the chase. Lots of people will try to replicate a high quality commercial beer as they can "make hoegaarden for $1 a schooner", hence the benefit of putting in a little effort, and saving a hell of a lot of money, and producing something not quite as good (or not the same) as the original. Conversely they may make a wheat beer which they dont want to taste similar to a commercial brew, hence having created something unique. If you grew your own barley, and malted it yourself, thats 6 months worth of work just to see if it will work. The chance of creating something (in a barley/malt sense) that is better (or you like more) than the commercial alternative is non-existent. As far as I am concerned from this perspective the payoff doesnt justify the effort. You are drawing the parallel that brewing beer is employing effort to create a unique product for cheaper than you could a commercial beer for fun, as is growing your own barley. Obviously brewing not always going to be cheaper, its not always going to be unique, and there will be days that it wont be enjoyable, but if the ends didnt justify the means in any of these respects, we wouldnt bother. 

You need to consider the same equation with producing your own malt. The effort required is considerably more, even if you say it only takes a few hours to clear an area, dig up the weeds, pre-treat the soil, then a couple hours to rip up, seed, and work back, about 6 months waiting time during which labor wise 4-6 hours all up to weed, spray, water, fertilize etc, a few hours to reap, a couple hours to manually loosen grain from your crop, and clean it, 30mins to steep, 30mins to drain, 30mins for second steep, 30mins to drain, a week to wait while it germinates, 30mins to kiln, I think you will agree that your average brewday kinda pales in comparison. Growing hops is no comparison to this, compared to this they are very simple to grow, simple to harvest, obviously dont require malting, and are much better fresh and unprocessed.

So, we would hope with all this extra effort our rewards would also be considerable. It should be LOT cheaper to be honest I think it would work out more expensive since you are buying small quantites of seeds, sprays etc, but it might come in a bit cheaper, and even if it turned out free, for 20kg of barley the difference in cost would be negligible given the effort. If not cheaper it should be awesomely unique, which it will be, but I think you would find it would be unique in the respect that you would get a poorer efficiency, and possibley some other problems. Having said that I am most certainly not offended at the suggestion that malting is simple, it is, wet the grain, let it germinate, and stick it in the oven and kill it. Malting is the least of your problems, I did suggest in a previous post to buy from a farmer and malt it yourself. And last, not least, it should be a lot of fun. This should not be discounted as it is the ONLY reason you would try it. If you are a hobbyist gardener who would greatly enjoy growing a mini crop of barley, and dont mind if it works or not then go for it. 

The reason I am being negative about the idea isn't because I think people shouldn't bother. It's because of the same reason a hobbyist winemaker wouldn't grow their own grapes. Because it would be far too much work, it would never be as good as you could source from your local vineyard, and they are more interested in making wine than growing grapes. If this was on aussiehomegardener and someone said "have you ever tried making beer from your own barley" I would expect the response "mate, you can give it a go, but apparently its a lot of effort and you are unlikely to get something even close to pure blonde, just go out and buy a carton".


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## jonocarroll (18/2/09)

jeremy said:


> The reason I am being negative about the idea isn't because I think people shouldn't bother. It's because of the same reason a hobbyist winemaker wouldn't grow their own grapes. Because it would be far too much work, it would never be as good as you could source from your local vineyard, and they are more interested in making wine than growing grapes.


I'm somewhat sure I've heard of a few hobbyist winemakers growing small amounts of their own grapes. Because it will be as good or better than large producers? No. Because it's cheaper? No. For the fun of it? Absolutely.

"Too much work"? I think I see the problem here... this is work for you. Is brewing a beer from scratch too much work? Not for me, it's no work. It's fun. Is building a difference engine (calculator) out of Lego too much work? Not for this guy. Is building a DIY 3D solid freeform fabricator that runs on sugar too much work? Apparently not.

I'm stepping out of the back and forth now, but I will say - with a bit of passion, doing things the hard way is the most fun. If anyone ever gets this up and going, I want a bastardised speech from them along the lines of 

*We choose to *_go to the moon in this decade_* grow our own barley and *_do the other things_* malt it ourselves, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.
*
... Okay. That was a little over the top, but the idea's right.


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## Ducatiboy stu (18/2/09)

Well...you shouldnt knock anyone for trying....



Bit like the VB drinker haveing a go at you for brewing AG

View attachment 24796


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## Ducatiboy stu (18/2/09)

Well...you shouldnt knock anyone for trying....



Bit like the VB drinker haveing a go at you for brewing AG









Brings back memories of living around Leeton/Griffith


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## jeremy (18/2/09)

QuantumBrewer said:


> I'm somewhat sure I've heard of a few hobbyist winemakers growing small amounts of their own grapes. Because it will be as good or better than large producers? No. Because it's cheaper? No. For the fun of it? Absolutely.
> 
> "Too much work"? I think I see the problem here... this is work for you. Is brewing a beer from scratch too much work? Not for me, it's no work. It's fun. Is building a difference engine (calculator) out of Lego too much work? Not for this guy. Is building a DIY 3D solid freeform fabricator that runs on sugar too much work? Apparently not.
> 
> ...




For the fun of it, absolutely. My point exactly. If it floats your boat go your hardest. I just mean it wont make a beer better, or cheaper, or more unique (in a good way) so if you are your average brewing enthusiast dont bother, but if you want to give it a try go for it. Just like for your average gardner making beer isnt worth the effort, its not where their interest lies.


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## Steve (18/2/09)

This reminds me of the British show The Good Life. The snooty neighbours (cant remember their names) saying why on earth would you want to do that, are you maaaad? Tom and his wife reply with a smile: Because its fun, and why the hell not?
Cheers
Steve


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## Zizzle (18/2/09)

Great post and great philosophy POL.


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## peas_and_corn (18/2/09)

QuantumBrewer said:


> I'm somewhat sure I've heard of a few hobbyist winemakers growing small amounts of their own grapes. Because it will be as good or better than large producers? No. Because it's cheaper? No. For the fun of it? Absolutely.
> 
> "Too much work"? I think I see the problem here... this is work for you. Is brewing a beer from scratch too much work? Not for me, it's no work. It's fun. Is building a difference engine (calculator) out of Lego too much work? Not for this guy. Is building a DIY 3D solid freeform fabricator that runs on sugar too much work? Apparently not.
> 
> ...



Don't do that to JFK ever again.


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## buttersd70 (18/2/09)

Steve said:


> This reminds me of the British show The Good Life. The snooty neighbours (cant remember their names) saying why on earth would you want to do that, are you maaaad? Tom and his wife reply with a smile: Because its fun, and why the hell not?
> Cheers
> Steve



mmmmmm
Felicity Kendal :icon_drool2:


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## apd (18/2/09)

jeremy said:


> For the fun of it, absolutely. My point exactly.



Jeremy, you seem to have become confused in all the circles you were talking! "For the fun of it" was _my_ point and _QuantumBrewer's_ point and lots of other people's point.

_Your_ point was about effort and efficiency and getting a justifiable return on investment.

Yes, 6 months does seem like a lot of effort (if you think sitting and watching the barley grow for most of that time is effort) but gardening is one of my hobbies.

Yes, the malt I produce may only achieve 50% efficiency but I don't have to please the accountants of a commercial brewery.

Yes, I may spend more per kilo in producing my malt than I could buy but I'd only be producing a few kilos and again, I don't have to report to the accountants. This is my hobby. I don't get monetary returns from my hobbies. I get those intangible returns like a sense of accomplishment and stress relief.



> My point is that you might not make a superior product, but rarely would you dedicate 6 months worth of work with no potential benefit at all, rather than the thrill of the chase.



I think you meant to say, "...rarely would _I_ dedicate 6 months..." Several of us in this thread have already stated that we would dedicate 6 months to this and that it would be just for the thrill of it. You, sir, obviously have very little sense of adventure!

If you do actually understand that growing your own barley would be for the fun of it, why do you keep raising the irrelevant arguments?

Andrew


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## jeremy (18/2/09)

apd said:


> Jeremy, you seem to have become confused in all the circles you were talking! "For the fun of it" was _my_ point and _QuantumBrewer's_ point and lots of other people's point.
> 
> _Your_ point was about effort and efficiency and getting a justifiable return on investment.
> 
> ...




There was a discussion about growing ones own barley. I said its too hard, dont bother (as did others). You (among others) said I dont mind a bit of hard work, and think I would quite enjoy it. I say fine, go for it.

You're right, my argument doesn't necessarily negate yours.

EDIT: Quick note, on re-reading posts I think I made a reasonable attempt to use the tone "I" wouldnt bother. When I say "don't bother" you can take it as read that I mean my opinion based on my motivations and inclinations leads me to recommend that you not bother, not you can't or you shouldn't.


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## dug (21/2/09)

I grow my own hops, they are NOT like the commercial ones and I don't expect them to be. Why not give barley a go?It Won't be the same as the commercial stuff why would expect it to be.

and you could grow barley organically, no chemicals or pesticides

I go tuna fishing I've spent lots of time and money on a boat, lures, a fishing rod, petrol, food for while I'm out there. And I don't always catch a fish. I still do it.

DuG

**** Stirring the pot  ****


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## mash head (15/3/09)

As a barley grower and an amature brewer one of my next steps is to try malting some of my own barley but i do also put in around a hundred acres of barley pre year so economy of scale fits here. I think I am better at growing barley than brewing with only 2 ag brews under my belt so until i master the brew kettle i will continue with comercial malt to ensure consistancy. But one day (not this year because 70 tones of barley with to higher protien) I will malt my own grain and transform it into a good beer so dont stop dreaming. But to grow malting barley in your own back yard while not impossible does sound a bit hard. Growing a malting variety like gairdner is easy but getting it to malt specs is a challenge for most . Choose a well drained patch and dont put too much fertilizer on it or else protien blows out. My advice is one step at a time get some malting grade barley and play around with malting first from what I have read there is a lot to it but then again its only germinated grain that has been kilned once the acrospire reaches acertain length so its not rocket science. Am crapping on now so good luck with barley crops.


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## brewno (19/8/13)

I realise this is an old topic but just wanted to add my two cents. We bought a hobby vineyard/winery with no wine-making/viticulture experience 2 years ago. we have 6 varieties across about 800 vines. On our first year, we got 1600L of juice for what I would consider fairly little effort. I put down 8 sprays over 14 weeks which took 2 hours each time. Picking took half a day for each variety with some family and friends over. done by lunch, then have an awesome lunch with wine/beer etc everyone has fun - those people even came back the next year cause they had so much fun. Pruning by hand by 2 people took about 20 hours spread over a couple of weekends in winter.

This year I made an experimental batch of shiraz that was completely natural using our grapes, the yeast in the air and bottled it after 4 months. We did a blind taste test against a Torbreck Grenache made with the same method and ours won 7 votes to 1. Now I don't really care about the vote count - they weren't even the same variety, but the satisfaction from making our own wine from scratch using only what we've grown is hard to match. I think the effort was worth it.

Now for beer brewing, I'm still pretty new to it but given that vineyards often have cover crops over winter, that gave me an idea to plant some barley and wheat and use it in my beer. Given that we have around 2 acres of vines, that's more than enough space for some barley between the rows. Next winter we'll plant one row each as an experiment and if it goes well, we'll upscale. Making my own beer from only what we have on the property would be brilliant, even if it isn't the best beer in the world.

I was getting a bit saddened by the tone of some posters on this forum and just wanted to chuck in my opinion. If you want to have a go growing your own grain, don't listen to the haters and just do it. what have you got to lose?


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## Greg.L (19/8/13)

Hi, good to see another winemaker on the forum. Like other posters, I think there is a lot of value in the doing when it comes to homebrew, it isn't only financial. I have about 400 vines and am heavily into cider from my own apples. Vintage is my favourite time of year, even though there is a fair bit of work involved. I tried growing my own barley but the frost got it, even so it was good fun. You can always find reasons for not doing things, better to just go for it.

Greg


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## levin_ae92 (12/9/13)

Could just do what I did and get a job as a maltster, I get to make 130 tonnes a day, and take some home to make beer from


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