# Brewing With Polenta



## BjornJ (22/9/09)

Hi all,
does anyone know what yield to expect when brewing with polenta?

I bought a 1kg package at Coles, it is not cracked corn but ready-to-eat polenta, looks like a yellow, soft brick  

*Now, how much grain do I replace from my recipe with this 1 kg of Polenta?*

(the "plan" is to take out a certain amount of Pale malt and replace with the polenta. Probably boil it up with some water and just dump it in as it is already coocked I guess there is no need for a cereal mash. Read Palmer p.173 about cereal mash but this seems to be about Polenta as in cracked corn, not the finished product)

thanks
Bjorn


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## Bribie G (22/9/09)

I've actually got a brew boiling right now that I did with Polenta, the dry variety which I boiled to a mush before adding to the mash at mash temp. You don't actually have to 'take out' any malt, just formulate a recipe that takes adjuncts. In my case I would normally do, say 4000 grain malt and 500 bag of polenta.

With the pre cooked stuff however I don't know how much dry weight would actually be in a 1kg brick, I would guess about 300g of 'dry' polenta. You could soften the brick up with water then turn it into a mush and add to your mash. Check ingredients and make sure there aren't any additions like spices or oil.

Love Polenta :icon_cheers:


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## BjornJ (22/9/09)

good point, I checked the label now and it says:

Ingredients: Water, cornflour, salt and tartaric acid.

nutrition information: per 100 gr
Energy 285.1 kJ
Protein 1.8 gr
Fat 1.1 gr
Carbohydrate 14.1 gr
-Sugars less than 0.5 gr
Sodium 5002 mg


Interesting that you are brewing with polenta, have you done so before? Interested in any feedback on how it will affect the taste!

But I still need to know the yield so I can add it to beersmith, thought?
If I don't know the yield, I can not calculate the OG of the recipe and therefore the IBU?

Thanks!

Another thing, being a light-bodied beer without crystal/dark grains and bittering about 20 IBU, will US05 be a good choice, or should I try Nottingham in stead?

thanks


Bjorn


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## Bribie G (22/9/09)

US-05 is born to ferment such a beer:
In this piccie the bottles are my beer that I bottled off for my Son in law who is a Corona freak but the shot crops the tops of the bottles so you cant see the gold crown seals so you will have to trust me, I'm a doctor  






Maize gives a great smoothness IMHO. Also most of the grain is converted to fermentables so it's really like adding sugar. I would expect that most software would have a maize option, which would be the same as Polenta.

I sometimes use it in UK lighter beers, as they do themselves over there.


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## BjornJ (22/9/09)

Yes, remember seeing that picture before, that they could be drunk straight from the bottle.
My experience with US-05 is that I get large amount of fluffy sediment in each beer, but it may be due to isinglass and bottling in Coopers PET bottles.
First primary for a couple of weeks, then crash chill in secondary after another week or two and then isinglass and the beer is clear. After bottle conditioning with carbonation drops they all have a lot of sediment that won't settle. But it sounds like it is not the yeast, but the brewer (again).


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## Zwickel (22/9/09)

hello brewers,

Polenta brings you the same amount of starch as you get with pale malt.

Im using Polenta and rice when I do my Corona clone and the yield is almost the same as Ive used pure Pilsener malt.

Cheers :icon_cheers:


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## BjornJ (22/9/09)

Ok, how about these calculations:



The pack says 100 gr = 285.1 kJ.
this calculator says 285.1 kJ is 67.88 kcal 
http://www.positivehealthsteps.com/calorie...converter.shtml 

This site http://www.weightlossresources.co.uk/calor...fast_cereal.htm 
says Kellogs Corn Flakes is 370 kcal per 100 gr

so the ready-to-eat instant polenta is 370/67.88 = 5.45 x less yield than the corn flakes.

Or in other words I would have to use 5.45 times as much ready-to-eat polenta as corn flakes.

Hmm..
So my kg of instant polenta is the equivalent of 1000gr/5.45 = 183 gr of corn flakes.

So I will take out 180 gr of grains from the recipe as flaked corn has a yield of 1.037 and the grains only marginally less.

By the sound of it the instant polenta contains quite a bit of water!

Does this sound right?

thanks
Bjorn


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## Sammus (22/9/09)

looks pretty good to me, except google converter gives 285.1 kJ = 68.1Cal ..I wonder why the discrepancy is?

If your polenta just contains cornflour... it kind of begs the question, why not just buy cornflour instead of dry polenta or corn flakes or whatever?


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## BjornJ (22/9/09)

Hi Sammus, how are you! Still no bottles here, just so you know.

I had already decided to brew this Sunday and then read about using Polenta/corn again yesterday. Went to the shop today and there it was, a whole package of ready-to-eat polenta! Must admit I have never seen the stuff before as far as I know, and it seemed good not to have to deal with cereal mash and what-not.

Surprised it only seems to be the equivalent of 180 gr of grains, but guess that is because it is boiled with water and the end-product is 4/5 water.

I added it to beersmith as an adjunct with a yield of 1.007.

thanks
Bjorn


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## Swinging Beef (23/9/09)

Sam,
In Australia cornflour is often made of wheat.

So... for all the polenta brewers... what makes polenta better or worse adjunct or better suited than table sugar or dextrose?


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## Bribie G (23/9/09)

Polenta (maize) gives a distinct light grainy flavour to the beer. In fact on the UK Carling mega-lager webpage they spruik Carling Lager as having 'a mouthwatering corn aroma' so they aren't hiding the fact 
It's like other adjuncts such as wheat, flaked barley etc, they all add a bit of _je ne sais quois _ that it's hard to put a finger on but there nonetheless. Next time I do a CSA I'm thinking of putting some semolina in the mash (semolina is wheat, polenta is maize but same principle). I read a few months ago a post from someone who claims to have worked for Coopers and that they just whack white flour into the CSA mash. I wonder.

I can't see the point of getting precooked polenta, I've also seen it at ALDI, when you can go to IGA get a 500g bag of no frills uncooked polenta for about $1.30 that cooks up in fifteen minutes.

Edit: Actually weetbix would probably make a nice brew as well although that might cause a rift on the forum between weetbix and vita-brits fans :mellow:


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## BoilerBoy (23/9/09)

Interesting thread over on the Northern Brewer forum about Polenta, some are just sticking it straight into the mash as it gelatinizes at around 145F or 62-63C.

Never used it myself I've always use popped corn.

Cheers,
BB


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## tdh (23/9/09)

I always used flaked maize when brewing Classic American Pilseners at Grumpy's and it went straight in to the mash.

I'm reasonably sure that polenta might require a cereal mash.

tdh


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## 3G (23/9/09)

Last CAP I used 20% polenta. Mashed at 40 for 10 mins with 5% of the total malt. Then 66 for 30 mins then raised to the boil for 20 mins. Than added back to main mash for a 65 degree mash. Got 80% (same as usual). Tastes great.


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## Fourstar (23/9/09)

Im with Bribie on this one. Corn adds a 'cornyness' to the beer, no not just DMS but a distinct cornish flavour... you just have to try it i guess.

After the BJCP session last night, ive got the feeling to knock out another CAP again (will be a good excuse to use the yeast cake from my xmas swap rice lager). This time i might go radical and shoot for 30-40% (1.5-2kg) of the grist being polenta. Especially after seeing those gelatinisation points on northern brewer. My only concern is loss of mash water as the polenta begins to soak up all the water. Maybe i'll try rehydrating it over an extended period like cous cous/dried beans so the loss is not terribly high. Wish me luck!

As for rice/corn over sucrose/dextrose (regardless of what people may think) It DOES impart its own flavour/aroma profile and not just increase fermentability with a drier FG. its also fun to convert your own fermentables! 

Myself, Bribie, Chappo just to name a select few are avid users of these adjuncts. Dont delay, Uncle Sam wants you!


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## discoloop (23/9/09)

Anyone ever tried throwing a handful of corn-based packing foam into the mash? h34r:


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## reviled (23/9/09)

discoloop said:


> Anyone ever tried throwing a handful of corn-based packing foam into the mash? h34r:



:blink: WTF??


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## Bribie G (23/9/09)

They started using adjuncts in the 19th century because in the USA with their six row barley and in the UK and Northern Europe with the introduction of artificial fertilizers the malt became too high in protein and they were getting hazes. At about that time glassware was becoming cheap. Adjuncts just became part of the 'taste' that people knew. Apparently since the rice shortage panic of last year it now costs the likes of Budweiser more to use rice than to use malt but they wouldn't dare change the recipe.

Hey Y'all Abner this here bud's tastin like dem maltesers ahm gonna switch to Coors :lol:


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## Fourstar (23/9/09)

discoloop said:


> Anyone ever tried throwing a handful of corn-based packing foam into the mash? h34r:



Nope but would probabaly work well! It would dissolve like popcorn i'd say!



reviled said:


> :blink: WTF??



basically a form of pelletised puffed corn. imagine a Cheetos tube made from corn, without the MSG coatings! I didn't believe they were edible (by edible i mean consumable, wether or not they are good for you is a different story), let alone made from corn!


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## Bribie G (23/9/09)

Fourstar said:


> Nope but would probabaly work well! It would dissolve like popcorn i'd say!
> 
> 
> 
> basically a form of pelletised puffed corn. imagine a Cheetos tube made from corn, without the MSG coatings! I didn't believe they were edible (by edible i mean consumable, wether or not they are good for you is a different story), let alone made from corn!


I was at a motor show in Bris many years ago and the hot chip stalls had cups made from that stuff, you ate the cup afterwards :huh: . Tasted about as good as the chips IIRC and far less litter, any thrown away would get eaten by the pigeons.


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## reviled (23/9/09)

BribieG said:


> I was at a motor show in Bris many years ago and the hot chip stalls had cups made from that stuff, you ate the cup afterwards :huh: . Tasted about as good as the chips IIRC and far less litter, any thrown away would get eaten by the pigeons.



:lol: hahaha, thats hilarious! Did they deep fry the cup as well? :lol: 


On the topic of Budweiser, was watching discovery the other day and they were doing a thing on Anhauser Busch, and they are so massive, that instead of buying empty cans off of a company, they just make them themselves  It was the Anhauser Bush Canning plant?!?! Crazy!


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## Sammus (23/9/09)

Swinging Beef said:


> Sam,
> In Australia cornflour is often made of wheat.
> 
> So... for all the polenta brewers... what makes polenta better or worse adjunct or better suited than table sugar or dextrose?



I think this one might have some corn in it 





Is there any advantage of using any other kind of corn over this kind?


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## BjornJ (23/9/09)

I used to work at a warehouse years and years ago.
There was a "tradition" that when a new guy was trained up on the shift, he would be taken to the loft and offered a handful of the packing chips made from corn. Even after working there 2 weeks they would never realise the chips were in fact like the cheese tasting snack things (Cheese doodles), just without the spices and their eyes would bulge, hehe.

After a while one guy we had taped a small carboard box to his forklift and filled it with the "corn chips", driving around all day eating them..


So I am sure you could mash with them.

Bjorn


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## reviled (23/9/09)

BjornJ said:


> I used to work at a warehouse years and years ago.
> There was a "tradition" that when a new guy was trained up on the shift, he would be taken to the loft and offered a handful of the packing chips made from corn. Even after working there 2 weeks they would never realise the chips were in fact like the cheese tasting snack things (Cheese doodles), just without the spices and their eyes would bulge, hehe.
> 
> After a while one guy we had taped a small carboard box to his forklift and filled it with the "corn chips", driving around all day eating them..
> ...



:lol: haha, gold!

I cant believe it, packaging made out of food?!?! How have I not heard of this yet?


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## Bribie G (23/9/09)

If you are a 'high church' Christian and go to communion the priest shoves a round bit of something similar on your tongue and tells you it's the body of Christ. And the blood of Christ is lo alc. 

RE cornflour, that would be the refined milled whitest of white part of the maize grain and no flavour, polenta is bright yellow and basically made from the same stuff as cornflakes.


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## reviled (23/9/09)

BribieG said:


> If you are a 'high church' Christian and go to communion the priest shoves a round bit of something similar on your tongue and tells you it's the body of Christ. And the blood of Christ is lo alc.
> 
> RE cornflour, that would be the refined milled whitest of white part of the maize grain and no flavour, polenta is bright yellow and basically made from the same stuff as cornflakes.



So you do a step mash with polenta Bribie? Or just single infusion?


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## Fourstar (23/9/09)

BribieG said:


> I was at a motor show in Bris many years ago and the hot chip stalls had cups made from that stuff, you ate the cup afterwards :huh: .



Haha, yeah ive heard about those cups before. Going green even before its time!


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## Phoney (23/9/09)

Swinging Beef said:


> Sam,
> In Australia cornflour is often made of wheat.



Actually, I just discovered the other day that generic "Home Brand" cornflour is 100% wheat gluten. Whitewings cornflour is 100% corn based flour and is gluten free!


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## Bribie G (23/9/09)

Single infusion mash, but I give it 90 minutes to let the enzymes do their job. Another advantage of polenta and rice is that, being huskless, they get almost completely eaten during the mash and in the case of BIAB don't contribute to the weight of the spent grain, so an adjunct brew is easier to hoist and bucket sparge and IMHO seems to drain a lot better as well.


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## Sammus (23/9/09)

phoneyhuh said:


> Actually, I just discovered the other day that generic "Home Brand" cornflour is 100% wheat gluten. Whitewings cornflour is 100% corn based flour and is gluten free!



Yeah, I wasn't doubting Darren, just showing that we can get the proper stuff here  Wiki says in Australia, cornflour usually refers to wheatstarch, as opposed to cornstarch.


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## Swinging Beef (24/9/09)

Sammus said:


> Yeah, I wasn't doubting Darren, just showing that we can get the proper stuff here  Wiki says in Australia, cornflour usually refers to wheatstarch, as opposed to cornstarch.


I only know this because I have some friends who are silly yaks. The fact that coles puts "100% corn" on the front kinda proves my point.


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## Sammus (24/9/09)

Swinging Beef said:


> The fact that coles puts "100% corn" on the front kinda proves my point.



Lol I didn't even think about that till you point it out, now I find it quite amusing. "Try our new cornflour! Now contains corn!"


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## Nick JD (24/9/09)

Wouldn't there be a whole heap of fructose in polenta - or is the "sweetness" removed?


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## Bribie G (24/9/09)

Polenta is made from mature maize as fed to chooks, not 'sweetcorn' which is immature maize or more accurately, a type of maize grown to be eaten fresh. Polenta isn't sweet, about the same as rice or semolina.


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## Nick JD (24/9/09)

BribieG said:


> Polenta is made from mature maize as fed to chooks, not 'sweetcorn' which is immature maize or more accurately, a type of maize grown to be eaten fresh. Polenta isn't sweet, about the same as rice or semolina.



Thanks BribieG - So polenta is ground, uncooked popcorn? I suppose the yanks get their high fructose corn syrup from sweetcorn? I much prefer American coca cola with fructose.

Another question: can wheat beers be made with a kg of wholemeal flour thrown into the mash?


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## Bribie G (24/9/09)

Nick JD said:


> Thanks BribieG - So polenta is ground, uncooked popcorn? *I suppose the yanks get their high fructose corn syrup from sweetcorn?* I much prefer American coca cola with fructose.
> 
> Another question: can wheat beers be made with a kg of wholemeal flour thrown into the mash?



Nothing so folksy and wholesome, unfortunately. They take ground maize and subject it to industrial enzymes to convert the starch into sugars (what we do in the mash tun but in an evil way  )

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_syrup

I don't know about that amount of wheat flour but have heard rumours that Coopers Sparkling is made with some flour. To avoid too much glugginess and stuck mash I would tend to use semolina in a wheat beer as an adjunct. Most guys use Wheat Malt that can convert itself but if you have spare enzymes hanging around then adding just flour or semolina should work. Many brewers in the UK use torrefied wheat which AFAIK is the wheat equivalent of popcorn and is available from LHBS over there.


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## Nick JD (24/9/09)

Maybe I'll try Honey Wheats. Probabaly some nutricuiticals in there for the yeast too!


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## Bribie G (24/9/09)

I made a kiwi gold lager with a kilo of ALDI cornflakes, turned out fine :icon_cheers:


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## /// (24/9/09)

When contemplating using corn or rice to make CAP's, there is no better expert thna Jeff Renner and there was a huge amount of stuff on the Home Brew Diest (HBD) well over 10 years ago.

The first mistake is to confuse 'cornie' flavour of European or Asian made beers with those using corn. This relates to a DMS profile, not corn, and is not acheivable with the JW Export Pils or Barretts varieties availible in Australia. That being said, I have no doubt malt is produced from these manufacturers with the DMS precursor, but it is not sold and not acheivable, no matter what the ney-sayers say...

Flaked corn is heated via steam and rolled, hence gelatinising the product, fit for chucking straight in. Polenta I have alwasy 'cereal cooked' via boiling, like rice, to gelatinise. I have just stumbled on a powdered maize from an Asian store in Randwick which I am about to play with. It is amazing that at the turn of the 18th century Centuries needed to be posted at wheat and corn feilds to save the crop from brewers wanting to pinch the products for use in brewing, but now finding locally produced flaked maize is now near imposible, save for the UK stuff.

THe maize/polenta will give a stiff white head and a smoothness to the beer. Also helps to lighten the profile, but I suspect from the proteins added does not give the dry finish as you get when using amalayse in a low carb beer.

Research the info from Jeff Renner and that will set you on the correct path of enlightenment. From my own experience, for a CAP 10-20% maize/rice with halletau and a damm good lager yeast and 10C ferment is a match made in heaven.

scotty

ps. Skinny Blonde from Brothers Inc uses flaked rice in thier low carb beer, probably the tastiest low carb beer on the market and the only one I would buy ... but I have a vested interest as one of the contract producers ....


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## BjornJ (24/9/09)

BribieG said:


> I made a kiwi gold lager with a kilo of ALDI cornflakes, turned out fine :icon_cheers:




I am brewing on Sunday, using the instant-polenta and considering chucking in a 500 gr package of Corn Flakes as well, now!

Have adjusted the recipe already.
No idea how this will turn out, a light-colored beer with only 19 IBU and corn adjunct, no beer fridge and an ale yeast..

Sounds fun!!

Bjorn


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## BjornJ (6/10/09)

This beer has been in the fermenter for a week now, has cleared and starting to look ok.
Will leave it another week before transferring to my cube.
Ended up using two large boxes of Kellogs corn flakes (500 gr total) as well as the instant-polenta.
28 litres at 1.042 and low bittering IBU 17.3 so aiming for an easy drinking "corn ale", hehe.

Bjorn


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## Wisey (7/10/09)

mmmmm.......

Sounds great.


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## BjornJ (11/10/09)

Today after 2 weeks in the primary, I siphoned it off to a cube.

FG: 1.014 (from an OG of 1.042) so abv should be 3.6% plus bottle conditioning so should end at 4.1%.


It was VERY clear in the hydrometer tube, tasted like a light and refreshing summer ale should!

tried tasting for any hint of corn or polenta, but I was unable to taste anything "funny".
Will wait and see how it is after carbonation and a couple of months on the bottle, but this is looking good so far!


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