# Roasted Wattle Seed Ale



## benny_bjc (3/3/10)

Hello,

I have bought some roasted wattle seeds and am inspired to make a Wattle Seed Ale.

I do like the Barons Wattleseed Ale, but rather than making a clone I would like to make something that is pushing the boundary a bit more.

My ideas for the base beer would be an Amber or Dark Ale. I was thinking a stout would be nice but no doubt the wattleseed would disappear amongst the dark malts!?

Firstly do Barons use hops as well as the wattle seed - and if so what type and at what addition (bittering, flavour, aroma...) ?
Do you think hops are required at any stage? Also should I start with a hopped extract or use unhopped extract?

I have no idea how much of the roasted wattleseed to add and am assuming majority would be added at the start of the boil? Is it necessary to add the wattleseed at different stages like hops? I assume start and end or even secondary is a good idea to get a fresh boost of flavour and aroma.

I'm probably aiming for something around 6-8% ABV and probably a deep rich amber / red / brown colour. I would like the roasty favour from the wattleseed to shine through prominently, with a rich toffee and slight dark chocolate malty taste.

Are there any issues I should look out for when using wattleseed? Any other ideas, hints, tips etc much welcomed!!! 

Thanks Heaps!
Beer007


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## MarkBastard (3/3/10)

I'm also planning this and have been for months but haven't got around to it.

I would say that it's mainly going to give you coffee notes and as such will be more a malt profile thing than a hop thing. You will need to still use hops basically. I am going to do add some to the mash as well as adding some late in fermentation for aroma.


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## manticle (4/3/10)

Heven't used wattleseed in a brew but I am a big fan of indigenous ingredients in cooking. Wattleseed has a flavour that crosses between hazelnut, coffee and a hint of chocolate. Sounds like a perfect candidate for an American style Brown or even an ESB with a twist. I think that while the flavours might complement a stout, that it might be difficult to make them shine.

Porter is another possibility.

I would assume Baron's use hops. No idea which but at least for bittering.


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## VicCherikoff (5/3/10)

In my work with Wattleseed which I developed as a flavouring back in the 1980s (see History of Wattleseed), I have found that other Maillard products (those roasted, toasted tasting products of the heated combination of carbohydrate and proteins) as in malted barley really compete with Wattleseed. If you go easy on the malts the chocolate, coffee hazelnut flavours come out far better.

As to when you add the Wattleseed? I prefer to brew a lightly hopped wheat style beer and add 1% Wattleseed extract prior to bottling. It is the cheapest way to flavour beer and the most flavourful. If you want to make your own extract, boil the roasted grounds in twice the volume of water and strain it. You can use the leftover grounds in pancakes, bread or sauces so don't waste them.

Incidentally, I see lots of questions about whether to use hops or not. Hops (or spruce extract as an alternative) are essential as without them, beer goes off quickly. Wild yeasts will get out of control and taint the beer and food poisoning bacteria can also cause problems. Hops are a natural preservative.

Other great indigenous ingredients for brewing include lemon myrtle sprinkle, forest anise and fruit spice. Even Alpine pepper works producing an Australian equivalent to a chilli beer. I tend to use these after boiling the mash and usage of around 0.5% of the final volume of the brew.


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## dug (6/3/10)

VicCherikoff said:


> Other great indigenous ingredients for brewing include lemon myrtle sprinkle, forest anise and fruit spice. Even Alpine pepper works producing an Australian equivalent to a chilli beer. I tend to use these after boiling the mash and usage of around 0.5% of the final volume of the brew.



I've wanted to do a native pepper berry porter for some time now, just never got round to it


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## manticle (6/3/10)

VicCherikoff said:


> In my work with Wattleseed which I developed as a flavouring back in the 1980s (see History of Wattleseed), I have found that other Maillard products (those roasted, toasted tasting products of the heated combination of carbohydrate and proteins) as in malted barley really compete with Wattleseed. If you go easy on the malts the chocolate, coffee hazelnut flavours come out far better.
> 
> As to when you add the Wattleseed? I prefer to brew a lightly hopped wheat style beer and add 1% Wattleseed extract prior to bottling. It is the cheapest way to flavour beer and the most flavourful. If you want to make your own extract, boil the roasted grounds in twice the volume of water and strain it. You can use the leftover grounds in pancakes, bread or sauces so don't waste them.
> 
> ...



If I wanted to ask anything about indigenous ingredients in modern cooking I'd either ask an indigenous elder or you. Interesting to know you brew too.

Living in Victoria, do you know of retail outlets where I can buy fresh native ingredients like lemon myrtle (as opposed to prepared and ground)


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## pmolou (6/3/10)

i'd be interested as to where you can buy these native ingredients as well...


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## VicCherikoff (6/3/10)

pmolou said:


> i'd be interested as to where you can buy these native ingredients as well...


The easiest is on-line at the Dining Downunder shop where you'll find Wattleseed and Lemon myrtle sprinkle along with Alpine pepper, Fruit spice, Forest anise and a few other ingredients I have used in brewing over the years (how about a Paperbark smoke lager?).

Forget about fresh lemon myrtle leaves. They are covered with a waxy coating and the oil glands are deep inside the leaf structure. The aromatic compound, (citral) also boils and evaporates at around 40 degrees C so it's all too easy to cook off the lemony notes before getting anything into the brew. Alternatively, the ground seasoning called lemon myrtle sprinkle delivers the perfect flavour of the citral while also including acids from rainforest lime and lemon aspen together with the forest anise as a light hint. It is brilliant in a wheat style beer and you'll make a far superior brew to that commercial swill which is weak and insipid with more smell than taste.


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## manticle (6/3/10)

Interested for cooking as well as brewing. When I used to work as a chef, I was interested in seeing native ingredients develop a higher profile in Australian restaurants. Victoria seems to have very little interest in it besides the ocassional Kangaroo dish. The main retailer I was able to find was Robin's bush foods (all dried spice bottles) which, while tasty were usually accompanied by fairly average recipes (eg to make lemon myrtle chicken, sprinkle some RBF lemon myrtle on the chicken and cook it).

Dried is certainly better than nothing and a lemon myrtle witbier is definitely on the cards. Also keen to do a wattleseed porter although what you say about the malts is interesting. I might try it wih an ESB first and see how it goes. Lemon myrtle could also work nicely in a tripel.


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## pmolou (6/3/10)

yeah i don't get why native ingredients are hard to find, they should really be easy to find everyday ingredients that all Australians use...
sorry for the rant haha


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## benny_bjc (6/3/10)

pmolou said:


> i'd be interested as to where you can buy these native ingredients as well...



You can buy the native spices and seasonings online:

http://www.bushtuckershop.com/category6_1.htm

Wattleseed 100g:
"Our Wattleseed is a fine ground, extra dark roast to provide maximum flavour and dispersion in your cooking."

You can also get:

Whole and Ground Native Pepperberry

Lemon Myrtle

Mountain Pepper

and other native seasonings and spices.

I agree, Australian Native ingredients should really be used much more commonly in Restraunts and home cooking and ideally be available in your local supermarket! 


BTW I tried making a black "coffee" using the roasted wattleseeds and was surprised at the very similar characteristics. The packaging says use one teaspoon of wattlessed in a cup of boiling water, but I used 2 and a bit teaspoons as I prefer a stronger flavour. Despite having a roasty/coffee/nutty taste I also detected a slightly sweet taste - Unless my tastebuds were playing up.

I have also made wattleseed ice cream, which is very tasty and reminds me a bit of coffee ice cream.

Cheers!


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## benny_bjc (17/3/10)

does anyone have a good starting point for approx how much roasted wattleseed I would need to achieve the desired character?

Cheers!


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## ajdougall (19/3/10)

beer007 said:


> does anyone have a good starting point for approx how much roasted wattleseed I would need to achieve the desired character?
> 
> Cheers!



BUMP

Beer007 has not got a reply so I thought I would bring this one up again as I am interested too. Has anybody had any experience using it? It would be great to make a truely Australian beer, would Pride of Ringwood go well with Wattleseed?


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## mondestrunken (8/2/14)

Doogs said:


> BUMP
> 
> Beer007 has not got a reply so I thought I would bring this one up again as I am interested too. Has anybody had any experience using it? It would be great to make a truely Australian beer, would Pride of Ringwood go well with Wattleseed?



I couldn't find any info on wattleseed beer recipes here or anywhere else, so I made one up myself a month or two ago.

Recipe basics:

4 kg pale malt
0.2 kg Caramel 120 Malt
0.1 kg Chocolate Malt
Mash at 65-66 for 1 hour
25 g Northern Brewer (60 min boil)
22 g Roasted wattle seed (30 min boil) http://www.herbies.com.au/shop/product.php?productid=10087&page=1
US-05 @ 18 degrees.

I crushed up the wattle seed a bit but I was pretty lackadaisical about it so I'm not sure it made much difference.

I'm drinking one now after a few weeks in the bottle and I'm pretty happy with it. Hazlenut/coffee, and light chocolate flavours and aromas - seems to me a good dessert beer. (Now I just need to make dessert!)


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## TimT (8/2/14)

Fascinated to hear how this turns out.

You could do an experiment with a small amount of water and a small amount of wattle seeds to see how much flavour they add.

There is also the question of when to add the seeds: maybe even during the mash?


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## pajs (14/5/16)

Been thinking about adding roasted Wattleseed to an Alt recipe, but this thread has me thinking about a Wheat beer base, which had never occurred to me. Great to read Vic Cherikoff posting in a thread too.


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## sponge (14/5/16)

Woolshed brewery in Renmark do a wattleseed porter that is quite nice. Not a huge amount of wattleseed on the nose but gives a nice complexity. Might be worth throwing them an email? Seemed like a helpful place when I was last out there..


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## Beamer (16/5/16)

I have magazine with a wattleseed ale recipe in it if anyone was interested I could post the recipe


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## TimT (16/5/16)

Yes please!


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## Beamer (16/5/16)

So of course I couldnt find the magazine i did however find the recipe online but only an all grain, sorry.

Randy Moshers Watlle ItBee? Wattleseed Brown Ale

OG. 1050
FG 1013
ABV 6%
IBU 18
Volume 19L

3.9kg Vienna
910g Amber
340g Caramel (80)
150g Black
mash @ 68 for 60

12g galaxy @ 60
8g galaxy @ 30
14g roasted wattleseed @ 2

London ESB ale yeast or Safale 04


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## TimT (16/5/16)

No worries, just sub it for a suitable can of extract. 

Especially when dealing with dark ales, hops - or some other strong bittering/distinctive herb is necessary. For sake of simplicity go with a light hopping schedule so the wattleseed comes out nicely.


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