# Gruit & Other Medeival And Medicinal Adjuncts



## Temple of Seth (20/12/04)

Hey All,

I'm interested in formulating some recipes using adjuncts from Old European style fermentations (pre-Reformation). I was wondering if there was a good place in Oz to get live or dried herbs for Gruit or other herbal beers. Representative herbs would include yarrow, marsh rosemary, mugwort, wormwood, elderberries, scotch broom etc. Has anyone on the forum tried this sort of thing?

Cheers,

TOS


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## kook (20/12/04)

I've never tried it but I found http://www.australherbs.com.au on google? ..

Hope it helps


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## Jovial_Monk (20/12/04)

Many of the herbs you can grow yourself: I have yarrow, coltsfoot and ground ivy growing in my garden. Mugwort, wormwood are easy to grow.

Do research each ingredient you want to use though: myrica gale (IIRC) is a carcinogen and tansy is an abortificent. Ordinary sage, rosemary etc were also used.

I aim to try brewing some ground ales in 2005, using sundried malt I will make from the unmalted sloop barley a client gave me. Mebbe we can compare notes and pool research


Jovial Monk


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## Temple of Seth (18/5/05)

Right On, JMonk. I have one in the fermenter now. I wasn't able to find fresh herbs/plants re: yarrow, myrica, marsh rosemary, bog, myrtle, broom, clary, darrow etc. I just ordered some mugwort and henbane. I was able to plant & get going some wormwood, sage (officianalis) & rosemary (ordinary, not marsh). Here's the gyst (first let's get one thing out of the way - I'm an extract brewer ;-) )

1kg Morgans Special Dark Crystal malt extract
1Kg Morgans Special Chocolate malt extract
1.5 kg dry light malt extract

in boil:
2 oz fresh rosemary
0.5 oz fresh wormwood
1 oz rubbed sage

in fermenter:
2 oz fresh rosemary
0.5 oz fresh wormwood
3 oz fresh sage

for yeast I pitched 2 packs of Nottingham dry.

Will be bottling this sunday. I'll keep you posted.


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## nonicman (18/5/05)

I've had a go a very small ale, but over did the cardamon however it was drinkable and is very healthy. I drew off 1.5 litres of an AG wort before the boil, fermented with WLP023 Burton Ale. With that much malt I'm guessing that you're aware unboiled ale only has a limited self life before it goes off e.g a week. Though I am basing that on the amount of laws passed regulating the sale of ale pre-Reformation. Mine was gone in 4 days. Hope it turns out well and keep us posted.

EDit: didn't read the above post correctly he is boiling the wort.


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## homebrewworld.com (18/5/05)

I thought i was adventurous ?!
I put some corriander and orange peel in my last beer...whew
Try telling that to the boys at work,
good on ya boys!
cheers


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## Temple of Seth (19/5/05)

Certainly, hops acts as a preservative in beer. However, there was a lot going on regarding beer adjuncts pre-reformation. I understand that to formulate a gruit mix you had to buy a license, and these were only sold by a monopoly owned by the Catholic church. 

I've also heard that the beer purity laws were, in effect, the first known substance-control laws in the west, since many herbs used before hops were stimulant and aphrodesiac, whilst hops is a sedative and an anaphrodesiac (hence the condition commonly known as 'brewer's droop'). 

Kind of figures - America was founded by fanatic protestants, and they also have some of the stupidest drug laws around. ;-)

FYI a good place to get live specimens of wormwood and mugwort is www.shaman-australis.com.au

a place that I found that sell other live beer-herb specimens (yarrow, wormwood, mugowrt, tansy, hyssop, licorice, pennyroyal, coltsfoot, elder) is www.herbsalive.com.au


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## Tony M (19/5/05)

So, if I wanted to charge around the house looking like a gimlet eyed Incan fertility icon, what should I replace the hops with?


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## Jovial_Monk (19/5/05)

Hmmmm I will need to look up Sacred Healing and Herbal Beers, there were flavorings added at times to chicha

JM


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## dicko (19/5/05)

Tony M said:


> So, if I wanted to charge around the house looking like a gimlet eyed Incan fertility icon, what should I replace the hops with?
> [post="59748"][/post]​



:lol: LOL Tony M,

To the others,
Purity laws were bought about to protect the general public from the risk of partaking of these dubious adjuncts.
These regulations have been concentrated on more recent times on ingredients like " sugar " but we must all realise that the original regulations were to include some or all of the above mentioned additions.
Even, with this topic, the sometimes radical, Jovial Monk, points ot the potential dangers in some of these additions.
I would like to know that all the beers I taste at a fellow brewers social gathering ( or a HB shop for that matter ) does not contain these dubious adjuncts and to this end I recommend that if you choose to include these dangerous additions then you keep the drinking of these doubtful brews entirely to yourself and ensure that they are not included in any social event, be it for "fun" or "social experiment".

Cheers


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## Jovial_Monk (19/5/05)

Think you are wrong there, dicko, they were enacted way after the gruit period was over. Late 19th century porters had, in some cases, strychnine, opium and other nasties added to give the beer more "punch" Gruit ales were extremely high in alcohol (for preserving power) and needed nothing else added for "punch"

And not too much is dangerous, myrica gale (I think, need to check & post later) is now classed as an carcinogen and like I said earlier Tansy is not real good for pregnant women, the rest present few problems.

JM


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## Sean (19/5/05)

Jovial_Monk said:


> And not too much is dangerous, myrica gale (I think, need to check & post later) is now classed as an carcinogen
> [post="59774"][/post]​


Is it? Fraoch (Heather Ale) included it (under the name Bog Myrtle) as a main bittering when it was in season, although rumour has it they stick to hops now.


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## Weizguy (19/5/05)

Can I get Fraoch in Oz?

It appeals immensely to me. Would like to get some this Winter.

Can anyone PM me with a source for heather flowers? Might make some. What is a good substitute for Scottish malt, or can i get it here, too?

Should I ask my lhbs?

Captain Seth out


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## nonicman (19/5/05)

When reading up the history of beer it is tempting to give it a try, though I wouldn't want to go all the way, lead fermenters anyone? 

My understanding of gruit is that it was composed of what was available to do the job, from dodgy herbs to exotic spices, as long as you have bittering and flavour/aroma components. Basically anything was fair game. My bet is that if you showed a historical gruit beer brewer a modern supermarket spice isle he/she wouldn't look twice as at the mankey bog herbs. 

The outbreak of dubious additions to beer that are sighted by JM in the 19th century occur at the same time as it become popular for government to "cut the red tape" for business. Prior to that there is extensive evidence of regulation, wasn't Shakespear's father a Ale-Conner (beer inspector).

I had a go at a historical ale just to get an idea of what was being drunk historically and if it has any commerical potentual . However I have also tried medieval combat and making chainmail, guess I like the history stuff.

With the beer it's safety over authenticity, Dicko's valid warnings are noted. 

However where would Belgium Wit beers be if Pierre Celis hadn't raided the history books and his pantry?

Edit: grammer, and JM I guess Mum is the word.


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## Sean (20/5/05)

Weizguy said:


> Can I get Fraoch in Oz?
> 
> It appeals immensely to me. Would like to get some this Winter.
> 
> ...


As far as I know Heather Ale doesn't include anything special malt wise - just go for whatever good quality Ale Malt you normally use. You could chase after Golden Promise if you wanted, but I'd be a little bit surprised if they use it.


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## Weizguy (20/5/05)

Thanks.

I may chase this later today, at my lhbs.


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## Airgead (20/5/05)

Jovial_Monk said:


> And not too much is dangerous, myrica gale (I think, need to check & post later) is now classed as an carcinogen and like I said earlier Tansy is not real good for pregnant women, the rest present few problems.
> 
> JM
> [post="59774"][/post]​




I'd go a little easy on the wormwood too. Its a very strong flavour and can be poisionous in large quantities (depending on the type - some are some aren't.. you never can tell woth wormwood). 

Cheers
Dave


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## Temple of Seth (25/5/05)

Well, you might guess by my referral to the purity laws what I think of most prohibition statutes. Paternalistics actions by the state in the name of what (is sometimes laughably) called safety is a big reason why my homeland is the worlds biggest prison warden. I'm not a medical doctor, just a doctorate in biophysics, and there isn't much in life that won't cause cancer or kill you in the right doses. Personally, I think the low emission standards on automobiles in Queensland have a better chance of causing me cancer than some new herbs in my beer. These effects tend to get lost in the noise.

Not that I'm advocating higher prices for cars in Queensland, nor that someone should pick random plants from the roadside and stick them in ale. Easy does it with anything new etc., and do your homework. 

Of course, Dicko is absolutely right about sneaking new ethnobotanicals on people without their knowledge. I'm more than happy to point out the dangers of any ale I make to anyone I'll share it with.

My mugwort plant came in the mail yesterday from Shaman Australis. It's pretty small. I might get another one from Marshall's nursery. I also got a hops plant (unnamed) from SA, but that's even smaller. It may not survive the week. I'll do what I can though. 

Found a bunch of stinging nettles on the roadside somewhere on the great dividing range. Awful pain trying to pick it up with nothing but a towel to cover my hands (literally). That's going in my next one, with some more aromatics from the garden.


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## Jovial_Monk (25/5/05)

Hope you like mint!

Agree with what you say re dangers, just wanted to point out the two SAID to be dangerous.

JM
PS think my ground ivy is all dead or something


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## Temple of Seth (25/5/05)

Thats's not cool about the ground ivy. I was going to ask you where you got it b/c I can't find it online (or haven't yet). Are the bugs eating it up? They've really gone to town on my sage & I had to cut away some old growth of wormwood b/c it was covered in a wierd scale. Still keen on the yarrow though. Glad to find a fellow antiprohibitionist.  Elliot Ness was overrated. :-D


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## Temple of Seth (30/6/05)

Right, well, I've news to report re: herbal beers.

The ale described earlier in the conversation went off great. I passed several bottles around at a party here a couple weeks back to rave reviews. Rosemary is a good herb.

Since then I've bottled two more

Recipe 1: Goat-Headed Pagan Ale version 0.2 (almost 2 weeks in bottles)

In boil:
1Kg Morgans Specialty Caramalt extract
1Kg Morgans Specialty dark crystal extract
1.5 Kg light dry malt extract (this was for the 30L fermenter)
~4 oz fresh rosemary
~1 oz fresh sage
~0.5 oz dried wormood (dried in a baper bag in my room after fresh harvest)
about 6-8 oz of stinging nettle foliage (frozen while fresh)

In fermenter:
3 oz fresh sage
Nottingham yeast


Recipe2: Goat-Headed Pagan Ale version 0.3 (5 days in bottles):

In boil:
3 oz fresh rosemary
2 oz fresh sage
1Kg morgans specialty caramalt extract
1Kg morgans specialty chocolate malt extract
1kg light dry extract (this was in the 25 ltr fermenter)
2 oz fresh wormwood

In fermenter:
2 oz fresh sage
Nottingham yeast


So in a couple more weeks it will be a month in bottles, and I'll start giving reviews at that time. 

Cheers!


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## tk75 (12/12/07)

Found this thread and thought I would bump it...

Just about to make a brew with Rosemary in it and wondering if anyone else has since used this herb?
My Receipe: 23L Batch
1 x Can Muntons Blonde
1kg LDM
1kg Amber Malt Extract

Rind from one Orange - In Primary
??g Fresh Rosemary - Any suggestions on using it in the boil and in fermentor??
5g Cluster - In Primary(I have this sitting in the freezer and after reading up on it, I think the profile fits well so I am going to dry hop)

Supplied kit yeast

I have all these ingredients on hand and I'm not in a position to get anything else.
Thoughts/Suggestions??...

Cheers!


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## Wrenny (12/12/07)

I often put some rosmary in my brews. I put 4 big sticks in the mash tun. Rosmary is supposed to be an anti-oxidant, so maybe it helps prevent HSA. Then again maybe HSA doesn't exist. I certainly dont know. At first I put it around the manifold to try to prevent stuck sparges. But I never got stuck sparges with or without it.

Anyway, I found that 4 big sticks in a 23 l gives a nice subtle flavour and a kind of softness on the tounge.

Make sure you boil it, though, to kill all the bugs. Not sure if boiling extract the oils, or evaporates them all, but better than a ruined batch.


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## brettprevans (4/6/09)

raising dead topics. just under 2 years in the cyber ground.

for anyone intersted in Fraoch/heather ales or an Aussie source for heather flowers...this is the best Ive come up with - Australherbs. yes this site is mentioned in the 2nd post. but im confirming that its the best thing i can find and they may not have stocked heather back in 2005.

A bit pricey but seems to be the goods none the less. Im got some old scottish family friends coming over to visit in about a month, so im toying with the idea of making a Fraoch/heather ale. will let you know if I do.


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