# Home Roasted Malt



## Ducatiboy stu (25/3/06)

I roasted some pilsner malt in the oven today at 230*c for 40 mins. It was not overly succesfull, cause the grains at the edges burnt more than those in the center, but the result was reasonable, I just dont know what I have ended up with, or what the approx EBC is. I am thinking it is Brown or Biscuit malt, but I am not shure.

Regardless it is going into tommorrows brew

The Pic shows JWM light Munich (20 EBC ), my home roasted malt, and Caraaroma ( 350 EBC)


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## Stuster (25/3/06)

Looks a bit like the colour of dark crystal to me. What does it look like on the inside?

I've roasted some for the first time and it's in a porter that is near bottling. I tried soaking it first as recommended by Mosher and it seemed to brown fairly evenly.

Like to know how that turns out. :super:


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## warrenlw63 (26/3/06)

Stu.

A good way to get an idea of what it's like is to chew a few of the kernels. They should have some nice biscuit-like notes.

Having dabbled a little with it myself I'd say first and foremost that you've got your oven a little too high from the outset. Try doing a batch next time at 180 and closely monitoring it. Smell coming from the oven is also a good sensory indicator.

What comes up nice is making your own Amber Malt (or something similar) line the tray with foil and spread the malt evenly. What I also do is spray the malt with some water once or twice (lightly) this crystalizes the malt to a certain degree and produces a nice sweetness. Maybe stir the malt around once or twice to try and roast it more evenly too. Which like you I've found to be very difficult.

If you want to roast it further take your finished malt from the oven, inspect it and crank it up to 200-220 and put the tray back in again for further roasting.

I've found it's impossible to totally replicate particular malts OTOH it's a fun experiment that seems to be able to produce something you can use (and notice in a positive way) in most English Ale styles. :beerbang: 

Smoking malt is good value too. Finding the time is more difficult.  

Warren -


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/3/06)

I had another go, this time using only a thin layer of grain, and roasting at 210*c for 20 mins

Much more consistant.

Just trying to work out and approx EBC rating


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## warrenlw63 (26/3/06)

Straight from the pages of _"Brown Ale" by Ray Daniels and Jim Parker._ This is a method recommended by_ Dr. John Harrison fom the Durden Park Beer Circle_.

*Procedure for Amber Malt.*

1. Place pale ale malt to a depth of one-half inch in a foil-lined cooking pan. Retain a few kernels in a separate plate to use for comparison during roasting.
2. Cook in a oven for 45 minutes at 110c and then for 20 to 60 minutes at 150c.
3. After the first 20 minutes at 150c, cut several kernels in half to inspect the colour of the starch endosperm. For amber malt, the endosperm should be "light buff" in colour when finished. Continue heating at 150c until this colour is achieved, usually 45 to 50 minutes.

*Procedure for Brown Malt.*

Follow the procedure for amber malt. After the proper endosperm colour is achieved, raise the oven temperature to 180c and continue heating until the endosperm is a "full buff" or "about the colour of the paler types of wrapping paper".

*Alternative procedure*.

As an alternative to the previous two procedures, Randy Mosher recommends filling a pan to a depth of no more than one inch and then heating the kernels as follows: 180c for 20 to 30 minutes for amber malt and 230c for 30 to 40 minutes for brown malt.
As with the previous two procedures, evaluate the extent of roasting by periodically examining a cross section of several kernels.

Warren -


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/3/06)

Have got Ray Danials book, thats where I got the idea.


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## warrenlw63 (26/3/06)

LOL! :lol: Geez thanks Stu. 

Would have liked to have known that before I pulled all those finger muscles. :blink: 

BTW I just went down the garage and had a look at some Baird's (145EBC) crystal. Your's looks quite a bit darker. Rough rule of thumb I'd say you've got something between Brown and Chocolate Malt.

Warren -


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/3/06)

Was thinking something around 200 EBC...its not as dark as the Caraaroma at 350 EBC


SHould go well in a Brown that I am doing


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## Stuster (29/9/06)

I'm thinking of roasting up some amber malt for a bitter. My lack of planning means I'd be using it today/tomorrow. Some like Mosher say to leave it a week or two before using it, while others like Graham Sanders say use it straight away. Has anybody got any experience with this? Should I roast it up or just skip it this time?


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## AndrewQLD (29/9/06)

Go for it Stuster, I roasted some malt to make a brown malt for my porter, smelt fantastic. I used the malt straight away and the porter is great. Huge difference using freshly roasted grains, they give off a lot of aroma too.

Cheers
Andrew


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## Stuster (29/9/06)

Thanks, Andrew. Just what I wanted to hear. :super:


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## Ducatiboy stu (29/9/06)

Just be carefull how much you use as it gives a strong flavour. I did a brown and used to much and nearly killed it


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## johnno (29/9/06)

I too toasted some up very lightly a few weeks back. 300 grams worth.
I used it in an aussie ale, just to see what it would be like.

The picture shows the toasted on the left and the normal malt on the right. It does not look very different but when you cut one up and also chewed some you could see and taste the difference. Also it did make the wort considerably darker. This brew is in secondary and I will bottle this weekend.

I used it within 2-3 days of toasting it. Definately puts a diferent taste to the beer.

I estimate it to be somewhere near an amber malt.

I want to make some old style porters within the next year and am hoping to use this method to make them.

cheers
johnno


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## Stuster (29/9/06)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Just be carefull how much you use as it gives a strong flavour. I did a brown and used to much and nearly killed it



I used 500g in a robust porter before and liked it personally. I was only planning on using 100g of it in a bitter after reading advice to Ash in this thread. About right, or can I use more?


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## AndrewQLD (29/9/06)

here's a pic of mine, doesn't look much different until you see inside


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## AndrewQLD (29/9/06)

Stuster said:


> Ducatiboy stu said:
> 
> 
> > Just be carefull how much you use as it gives a strong flavour. I did a brown and used to much and nearly killed it
> ...



I used 1kilo in my mash Paddle entry, tastes very smooth now after a month in the keg.
Here's the secret recipe, shh, don't tell anyone  

Recipe: 19th Century Porter
Brewer: Andrew Clark
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Robust Porter
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 29.95 L
Estimated OG: 1.051 SG
Estimated Color: 32.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 34.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4.60 kg Ale Malt Powells (2.3 SRM) Grain 78.0 % 
1.00 kg Brown Malt Home roasted Grain 16.9 % 
0.15 kg Black Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (660.0 SRM) 2.5 % 
0.15 kg Chocolate Malt (Joe White) (279.2 SRM) 2.5 % 
56.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (60 min) 30.8 IBU 
15.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (15 min) 4.1 IBU 
15.00 gm Styrian Goldings [5.40%] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops - 
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Dry English Ale (White Labs #WLP007) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Copy of Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 5.90 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time 
Mash In Add 35.99 L of water at 71.7 C 67.0 C 90 min


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## Fingerlickin_B (29/9/06)

I dont have a mill, so I buy my grain pre-cracked. 

Stupid question timeIs there any reason not to try roasting cracked grain? :blink: 

PZ.


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## Fingerlickin_B (29/9/06)

Anyone? :blink:


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## Steve (29/9/06)

Fingerlickin_B said:


> Anyone? :blink:




nah - it was far too stupid! :lol: 

Sorry wouldnt ave a clue!

Cheers
Steve


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## DJR (29/9/06)

Fingerlickin_B said:


> I dont have a mill, so I buy my grain pre-cracked.
> 
> Stupid question timeIs there any reason not to try roasting cracked grain? :blink:
> 
> PZ.



I've done it, doesn't work that well since it roasts a lot faster! But if you keep it damp with a spray bottle every couple of minutes it's not bad. Wouldn't do it again though because i can roast uncracked and then crack it!


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## doglet (29/9/06)

Fingerlickin_B said:


> Stupid question timeIs there any reason not to try roasting cracked grain? :blink:



I've never roasted my grain before but I don't think it would be a good idea to roast pre-crushed grain. The whole grain would provide a more even roast to the endosperm as the husk is a layer of protection/insulation.

Pre crushed grain is made up of particles of many different sizes and some would roast/burn quicker than others. It would be very hard to judge how long to roast to provide an 'even' colour. I would imagine the roasting times would have to be reduced and maybe even the temperature.

Just my thoughts.....

edit: DJR go there first!


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## Voosher (29/9/06)

doglet said:


> Fingerlickin_B said:
> 
> 
> > Stupid question timeIs there any reason not to try roasting cracked grain? :blink:
> ...



I would also think that roasting crushed grain would result in some accelerated oxidation of the grain components. Just a guess though.


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## Fingerlickin_B (29/9/06)

Ok, I'll buy some whole grain, roast it, chuck it in a pillowcase and smash it with a hammer :super: 

PZ.


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## Fingerlickin_B (3/10/06)

Well, I swung by the HBS today for some Munich and after a quick look around Colin (the proprietor) finds that he doesn't have any pre-crushed grain bagged and and will have to mill it on the spot for me. 

Beauty, asked him to leave out 150g of it from the crush and took it home in a seperate bag  

Roasted it this arvo in a foil-lined tray at around 200c for somehwhere in the range of 10-12 minutes, mixed about a few times during the roast.

Broken open it has a "caramel" colour inside and smells great...in fact now the whole house smells great :super: 

Planned an 11.5 litre batch all-Munich Ale this arvo including the 150g of stuff I roasted, but couldn't do it...maybe tomorrow...yummy :chug: 

PZ.

*edit* - won't need a hammer to break it apart either, as the grain is now super-brittle


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## TidalPete (12/10/06)

AndrewQLD said:


> Go for it Stuster, I roasted some malt to make a brown malt for my porter, smelt fantastic. I used the malt straight away and the porter is great. Huge difference using freshly roasted grains, they give off a lot of aroma too.
> 
> Cheers
> Andrew



Andrew,

Thinking of having a go at this. Can you give us any insights as to your grain roasting techniques/times/temperatures, etc or are they classified?  

:beer:


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## AndrewQLD (12/10/06)

> Andrew,
> 
> Thinking of having a go at this. Can you give us any insights as to your grain roasting techniques/times/temperatures, etc or are they classified?
> 
> :beer:




I can't take any credit for the method Pete, here it is in PDF
View attachment Roasting_Malt.pdf

Sadly my old gas oven was not really up to the task and my times and temps were a bit all over the place which is why I don't expect great results in the mash paddle comp. :lol: . But the above file will give you a great start.

Cheers
Andrew
PS see you on saturday :chug:


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## TidalPete (12/10/06)

AndrewQLD said:


> > Andrew,
> >
> > Thinking of having a go at this. Can you give us any insights as to your grain roasting techniques/times/temperatures, etc or are they classified?
> 
> ...



Looks the goods Andrew. Many thanks.

:beer:


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## Fingerlickin_B (6/11/06)

Drinking a recent brew made using some of this stuff. 

The grain bill was 3kg all up (small batch) and included in this was 250g of home roasted Pilsener malt. 

Having only done this one successful AG to date (dammned incorrect thermometer), I'm not sure if the roasted malt is the issue, but it's got a really strong flavour to it...only really evident as an aftertatse and nearly impossible for me to explain, only that it is somewhat similar a flavour I perceive in JS Amber Ale, just HEAPS stronger!

Excuse my ignorance, but would this be the roasted malt I'm tasting? 

PZ.


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## Voosher (6/11/06)

I haven't yet brewed with home roasted malt but I've done quite a bit of roasting and comparative tasting of the grains to get an idea of the likely results.
It didn't take excessive roasting for the flavours to get very sharp. They are quite mellow up to about an hour and a half of gentle roasting at about 100C but two additional half hours at 125C & 150C gave them a strong flavour and bitter notes to the point where when I finally get around to using them I will not use any more than about 1% of the longest roasted grain.
I would guess the 'amberness' could well be the roasted grain.
At what temps and durations did you roast?


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## Fingerlickin_B (6/11/06)

I used the temps/times for the darkest buff from the instructions download posted earlier in this thread. 

250g is just over 8% of 3kg, so going by what you have said I used WAAAY too much :lol: 

PZ.


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## Voosher (6/11/06)

Fingerlickin_B said:


> I used the temps/times for the darkest buff from the instructions download posted earlier in this thread.
> 
> 250g is just over 8% of 3kg, so going by what you have said I used WAAAY too much :lol:
> 
> PZ.



I think I'd agree.  

I used the following roasting schedule for JW Pale:

First batch 30m @ 75C - Really just a drying of the malt. Flavours (of the grain) are bready to gentle biscuit.
Second - additional 30m @ 100C - Biscuit is evident; some acidic sweetness.
Third - additional 30m @ 125C - Toasted flavours dominant.
Fourth - additional 30m @ 125C - A late bitter sweetness tending toward acrid.
Fifth - additional 30m @ 150C - dry roasted with an almost astringent finish. Not quite as harsh as roasted barley or chocolate malt but heading in that direction. Colour is way short of either of those however.

I'm planning a Home Roasted Ale at some stage which will probably have about 16% of the grist made up of Batch 1, 8% batch 2, 4% batch 3, 2% batch 4 and 1% batch 5.

If I remember I'll post and let you know how it goes. Don't hold your breath though. I've been thinking about this for a few months and I can't see a gap in the schedule until the new year.


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## Fingerlickin_B (6/11/06)

Voosher said:


> Fifth - additional 30m @ 150C - dry roasted with an almost astringent finish. Not quite as harsh as roasted barley or chocolate malt but heading in that direction. Colour is way short of either of those however.



Bingo, that's a fairly good description of what I used. 

Since we've sorted out that the grain was certainly the issue with my beer, I can now safely say that it is dangerous in anything but miniscule quantities!!!!  

PZ.


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## Trough Lolly (24/3/07)

Just dredging up an old topic!
I'm working on a dark wheat bock (dunkel weizenbock / Erdinger Pikantus clone) and I've got no choc wheat...
Has anybody out there roasted whole wheat malt and made their own choc wheat?
I'm figuring that an hour at 200C as GLS suggests in his article here would do it?

Any comments... :blink: 
Cheers,
TL


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