# Beer Too Sweet?



## tonyt (9/2/12)

Hi all,

Have made this many times and all good. I wanted to adjust a little.... and now tastes sweet or..... no bitterness, can't put my finger on it.

Usual recipe:

Coopers Aussie pale ale
750 dex
250 LDME
Yeast under lid, ferment at 19 deg for 2 weeks, CC for 2 days. keg, force carb and done.

FG Usually around 1010/11

This time:

Coopers Aussie pale ale
600 dex
500 LDME
12g amarillo tea bag hops steep for 10 min and chucked in fermenter.
Safale S 04 yeast
Ferment at 19 deg for 2 weeks CC for 2 days, keg force carb and done.

FG was 1013/14........also noticed when i took the fg there was no residual Co2 in the hydrometer tube at all, was flat as.

As i said tastes too sweet, anyone have any ideas.

Cheers


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## manticle (9/2/12)

FG/SG is a bit higher which could account for something.

This is out of the fermenter or out of a bottle or keg?

If the first, it could be that it hasn't finished fermenting. If it's the second, it could be uneaten priming sugar.

Does it coat the tongue or have a butterscotch/popcorn/butter taste?


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## tonyt (9/2/12)

manticle said:


> FG/SG is a bit higher which could account for something.
> 
> This is out of the fermenter or out of a bottle or keg?
> 
> ...



Tasted sweet out of the fermenter and again out of the keg (force Carbed)

I can't pick up any butterscotch etc and mouth feel seems ok.

I thought maybe the amarillo hops or the different yeast?? AS i said the brew in the hydrometer had no co2 at all where all my previous brews have, not sure if that means anything???

Cheers


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## manticle (9/2/12)

I don't use much dry yeast except for the ocassional US05. I have used S04 a couple of times and my experience coupled with that I've read from others suggest it can stall easily. Was the beer bright when you put it in the keg?

Apart from the sweetness, is there any indication of something not right with the beer?

May simply be the difference in attenuation, the esters from the 04 and the combination of the amarillo hops (possibly passionfruit, mandarin or stonefruit depending on age and season).

Sorry I missed kegged and force carbed in your first post.


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## alcoadam (9/2/12)

I use to knock-up similiar recipes with the CPA and played around with the LDME dosage for a while. For my taste buds 400g LDME was a maximum, any more and I would notice the sweetness too....for whatever the reason may of been.

I use to throw a bit of cascade in with that pale ale mix too, kept me quite happy for a while. :icon_cheers:


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## losp (9/2/12)

I just did a coopers pale ale + 250 grams of dextrose with Amarillo as well. Yeast was saf-ale 05
My fg was even lower than yours 1005. it tasted very sweet before bottling. But i have had this before and it mellowed out over time, so i will just have to wait and see.


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## cdbrown (9/2/12)

Probably due to the increase in LDME which will provide a slightly higher FG and residual sweetness although it wouldn't be much. S04 does promote the malt character more being an english strain. US05 will go a little drier and promote the hops. So combination of both the extra ldme and the english yeast.


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## tonyt (9/2/12)

manticle said:


> I don't use much dry yeast except for the ocassional US05. I have used S04 a couple of times and my experience coupled with that I've read from others suggest it can stall easily. Was the beer bright when you put it in the keg?
> 
> Apart from the sweetness, is there any indication of something not right with the beer?
> 
> ...



NO, Apart from the sweetness no indication of anything else wrong.

Cheers


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## manticle (9/2/12)

Well the differences in the brew are probably exactly the differences you put in - a combo of higher FG, different yeast and extra late hops. Since you are used to the other, you will perceive them. Even changing one ingredient in a batch (water, yeast, hops, grain/malt) can make a huge difference to final product. Ferm temp, pH etc can also change beers made to the same recipe.

Also missed in the first post that you used double the DME - likely cause of higher FG and sweetness as mentioned.

Do a small hop steep in some boiling water and add in - french press which is intended for aroma but will add a bit of bitterness too which will combat the sweetness.


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## pcmfisher (10/2/12)

As mentioned above, everything you did different contributed to the sweet taste.

More LDME which is less fermentable, leaving more sweetness.

SO4 is less attenuating than the kit yeast leaving more unfermentable sugars, making your beer sweeter.

Fruity hops, although not really sweet can be perceived that way.


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## tonyt (11/2/12)

Thanks for all the feedback guys very much appreciated.

Cheers


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## crd0902 (16/2/12)

Hi guys. I also have a problem with my beer too sweet. I brewed a coopers draught with liquid malt tin, s-23 yeast rehydrated and a brigalows finishing hops tablet I think it was. Kept in fridge at about 12 deg. About 3/4 ferment diacetyl rest to 18 degrees for two days, then back to 12. Tasted great. Racked to secondary with 75 grams of dextrose, lagered at 0-2 deg for about 3 weeks till I realised my new secondary was leaking my golden nectar all through the fridge. I then bulk primed for my first time with 210 grams of dextrose and bottled. I just acquired a kegerator as this is why I lagered soo cold which I think may have stopped the yeast. After 2 weeks bottled carved good but can't pour and tastes super sweet and undrinkable. Any ideas. I'm not a noob to brewing just starting to add things to my beer to taste better and temp control. Cheers Chris


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## yum beer (16/2/12)

crd0902 said:


> Hi guys. I also have a problem with my beer too sweet. I brewed a coopers draught with liquid malt tin, s-23 yeast rehydrated and a brigalows finishing hops tablet I think it was. Kept in fridge at about 12 deg. About 3/4 ferment diacetyl rest to 18 degrees for two days, then back to 12. Tasted great. Racked to secondary with 75 grams of dextrose, lagered at 0-2 deg for about 3 weeks till I realised my new secondary was leaking my golden nectar all through the fridge. I then bulk primed for my first time with 210 grams of dextrose and bottled. I just acquired a kegerator as this is why I lagered soo cold which I think may have stopped the yeast. After 2 weeks bottled carved good but can't pour and tastes super sweet and undrinkable. Any ideas. I'm not a noob to brewing just starting to add things to my beer to taste better and temp control. Cheers Chris



you have way overprimed, i usually bulk prime about 140gms, 160gm is high.
good chance you have bottle bombs preparing to go boom, you could uncap to release some co2 then recap, then keep the bottles well covered to protect from exploding glass...
if 1 goes, uncap the batch and throw.
Also no need to put extra dex into secondary before lagering, this wont ferment at the low temps and is then going to contribute to your overcarbing and sweetness issue.


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## crd0902 (16/2/12)

Thanks yum beer. I obviously didn't research quite enough as I found that 210 on the net somewhere. The 75 grams was suppose to help create a layer of co2 in the secondary to protect it. Even if I do pop the caps will it still get rid of the excess sugar. Like I said I was suppose to keg it so no need to prime but had to bottle so didn't need yeast. Did I stuff the yeast by cold chilling it therefore it won't get rid of the sugar taste. Also I bottled some in 375 brown bottles just to taste, they were great, big browns were sugary. Cheers I thought it might be the priming


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## manticle (16/2/12)

Depends on the volume of beer but IF it's around the 20-25 litre mark then yum beer is probably on the money.
285 g of dextrose is essentially what you have primed with so the beer is probably carbed fine now but still contains undissolved, unfermented priming sugar and therefore tastes sweet.

IF it is 20-25 L, how did you arrive at 210g and what was the 75g for?

I don't think adding dex at racking is necessary and I have a lot of doubts as to whether it's effective but others may differ.

Your main issue now is bottle bombs and you may need to chill and degas those beers fairly soon to avoid pulling shards of glass from your eyes or your family members' eyes.


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## crd0902 (16/2/12)

I have a designated brew cupboard so if the bombs go off, not much damage. Maybe carpet but we see.


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## manticle (16/2/12)

Except when you go to pull one out and it chooses that moment to explode in your hand. Wrap each one tightly in glad wrap, chill as many as you can at a time, open for a few minutes and recap. Keep the glad wrap around them or re-wrap.


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## crd0902 (16/2/12)

Manticle, I found the prime level on the net some where while I was researching bulk priming and the 75 was suppose to protect the beer it said while it was in lagering phase. Brew was 23 liters plus or minus after racking and priming with couple hundred ml of water


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## crd0902 (16/2/12)

Good point I got a brew fridge too so can prolly put them all in. Will the yeast still be crankin. I was under the impression at cold temp it would die and may have to add more yeast.


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## ShredMaster (16/2/12)

Just grasping at straws here, but now you have a kegerator, why not pop the tops off, pour into the keg and leave at room temp for about a week, chill it, hook it up to gas and a tap and test it out. Could take 2 weeks or more to ferment out to the desired sweetness and/or carbonation (as long as there is enough yeast there). If it overcarbs then you have it in a vessel which takes 300kpa (or so) and the relief valve kicks in if it gets dangerous and you just de-carb it back to the desired level. If it becomes undercarbed and sweet then you can force co2 into it to get the carb level right which will take away some of the sweetness due to the initial carbonic acid when you pour it or you get sweet bubbly beer you drink quickly to free up the keg for the good stuff next batch.

I could be wrong but thats the line of thinking I'd take....


Cheers,
Shred.


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## manticle (16/2/12)

Yeah too much.

If you look up a carbonation calculator like recipator.org, it will give you varying amounts depending on styles. Usually such calcs will look at the volumes of co2 you want in the beer. The point of bulk priming, besides consistency is that you can tailor the carb level to personal taste and/or to specific style. UK beer is low carbed, german wheat might be high carbed.

210 is high end of the high scale and depending on residual co2 (and combined with the 75 if you racked while cold and kept cold) is going to equate to far too much for comfort.

Almsost definitely hasn't finished carbing and almost definitely is the cause of your sweet beer.


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## manticle (16/2/12)

crd0902 said:


> Good point I got a brew fridge too so can prolly put them all in. Will the yeast still be crankin. I was under the impression at cold temp it would die and may have to add more yeast.



You said it's carbed ok so that's not an issue. Cold won't kill yeast - it will just make them dormant until the temp warms up.

Chill, degas, let warm and taste. If the sweetness goes and the bottles are not overfizzed, you may be in the ballpark. If still sweet but not too fizzy, leave warm a few days and test again. If fizzy and still sweet, put back in fridge and repeat.


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## crd0902 (16/2/12)

Ok I didn't know I could put it from bottles into keg. I got the kegerator the other day and can't get it to go below 12 degrees and so my lhbs said he is going to order me a new fridge. I may still have the two kegs here but keeping the headspace full of gas may be an issue. Any thoughts as all the hoses ect are built into the fridge.


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## ShredMaster (16/2/12)

And on that note, if it is a brand new kegorator and your first keg, have fun!!

My first keg was cool! I read a million guides and performed a million calculations then fucked it all up completely in about 5 minutes with a fresh co2 bottle and a whole bunch of shaking. Worked out how to de-carb it and then fucked it up again a day or so later. By the end of the keg (most of it on "Test pours") I managed to get a nice beer, great carbonation, clear as crystal and then 4 glasses later the keg was empty and I had a glass of foam.

So my next keg, I learned by my mistakes and worked out how to **** that on a completely different level! Blocked tap from hops, leaky co2 connection on the regulator and an empty co2 bottle after a day at massive kpa to get the carb right. **** knows when it ran out but the flat beer poured for about a glass and a half (it was ok beer). New gas bottle and a few days at serving pressure (ok maybe a whole day) and it was still flat. Time to shake.... Refer to paragraph 1. 

So on my third keg I did the best thing I could think of: I tried to follow some form of direction like using the articles mentioned here. I even went and bought some new beer line of the right length considering tap height, temperature, carb level and whatnot. Still overcarbed the fucker but since then I've learned to force carb until it's ALMOST carbed right and then 2 days later its fine. Meanwhile I drink ok beer with enough bubbles to cause conversation like "man this shit is flat", "no its not, there's bubbles", "maybe in your glass mate".... and so on...


Good luck mate!!!


Cheers,
Shred.


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## crd0902 (16/2/12)

I think I might chill the stubbies and try recapping at least untill I get the keg system sorted


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## manticle (16/2/12)

I can imagine pouring into a keg runs the risk of oxidation depending on how you pour. Happy to be wrong..


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## crd0902 (16/2/12)

Ok so three or four days ago was when it was super sweet and I tipped it out, I still had one brown cold. Just cracked it, drinkin it, perfect carb, thick head, nice and bitter and no sweetness. Confused much. It has been chilled for fourdays. First one was over night???


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## crd0902 (16/2/12)

That's what I was thinkin with the kegs


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## ShredMaster (16/2/12)

manticle said:


> I can imagine pouring into a keg runs the risk of oxidation depending on how you pour. Happy to be wrong..



I doubt you're wrong tbh, you've put some good advice in here between when I clicked "reply" to when I clicked "submit".

Could perhaps minimise it by flushing the keg with co2. Doc Smurto reckons its 2mins @ 200kpa to completely flush it, then it depends how you pour. Personally, I'd crank it up to about 200-250kpa and burp it a half dozen times then burp it to room pressure to take the lid off (same way I do it when I go to fill a keg). 

I prefer Manticles' idea of gladwrapping and chilling your bottles, safety first mate. But the keg thing is fun to learn, it's so damn basic but so damn complex when you start out. Once you get the gist, it's a piece of piss...


Cheers, 
Shred.


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## crd0902 (16/2/12)

Now I'm shit scared shred. I was reading something that says you can hook it up at pouring pressure and it will be fine in about three weeks. Yay or nay in your opinion. I got plenty of time


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## ShredMaster (16/2/12)

Oh I'm no expert, I've just learned how not to **** it completely, mostly.

There's an article here about balancing a keg system, that is pretty bloody accurate. You get it right and hook it up for a week or so and its bloody perfect. Force carb works but its always touch and miss, by nature. You get it carbed enough to drink but it's a fine line to overcarbing it and being back to square one by de-carbing it to start over again. Force carb also means that the first night is carbed with big bubbles and they are here and there, the second night (when left at serving pressure) the bubbles are a little smaller and little more dispersed and the fourth night its bloody near perfect but now 1/3 of the keg is gone. 

Serving pressure on a balanced system for a week will usually allow the beer to absorb enough co2 and stop when it is right (depending on what "right" means for your beer, temperature and line length). As the keg drains, you drop a few kpa to compensate for the headspace and not overcarb any of the beer, trial and error. 

Well, thats how I see it....


Cheers,
Shred.


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