# Cleaning Plastic Fermenters



## DarrenTheDrunk (22/9/20)

Hello fellow drinkers

Yes it is me again, but I can assure you it’s a different topic and a simple one. Hopefully it does not create any issues with anybody. With the plastic fermenters of which I have 1x 60 L and 5 x 30l, given I have sworn on the Bible never to use chlorine again, and further to that, it is recommended that you do not use scrubbing brushes and anything of the sort that will permeate the plastic, how in the hell does everybody clean their fermenters? That is my only question and way more simpler than my previous questions.

Cheers and Beers Big Ears


----------



## mje1980 (22/9/20)

Hot hot water, sodium percarbonate and shake. Let it sit for a while and a soft cloth ( blue chux ) and wipe it. Soak overnight if really bad


----------



## DarrenTheDrunk (22/9/20)

Thanks mate... where do I get this product.

CBBE


----------



## mje1980 (22/9/20)

Cheapest way is in 25kg sacks from a local chemical supply place ( this will be pure sodium per carbonate ). Or online in kg amounts. In a pinch napisan has it in smaller concentrations

By the way, 25kg will last a lifetime so maybe split with other brewers in your area

It’s also very good for stainless


----------



## DarrenTheDrunk (22/9/20)

Perfect. I have a contact who is the production manager of a chemical manufacturing company and in fact they specialize in water purification so maybe he will have this. Thanks


----------



## kadmium (22/9/20)

Not to be pedantic, but specialised brewery cleaners are far more effective than Sodium Percarbonate. They have chelates, surfactants and other chemicals which will help remove beer stone.

However, I would imagine that a soak in PBW or even any power cleaner is not that critical for every use.

When I fermented in buckets / HDPE barrels with the lids, I would simply give them a good rinse with hot water from the tap. I wipe down inside using a blue chux that you can get on a big roll from like Bunnings and even coles and woolies etc.

Maybe once every dozen or so brews I would give a good clean with PBW (Sodium Perc but with extra).

Now that I have a PET fermenter, I use a CIP (Clean In Place) type method with a pond pump and cleaner, but mainly because PET scratches easier and the hole is too small to fit my sausage hands inside.

Don't take these things too much to heart, if you follow a principal that 'clean' is good, the sanitiser will do the rest. You can't sanitise visually held on crud etc, but if the fermenter is clean inside, the sanitiser does the job you need it to do. In fact, pretty sure Dr Hans did a video where he didn't clean his fermenter for a year. He agreed that it started to go bad after a few months, but it shows that you don't have to be super anal retentive about it.

If it visually looks clean, free of deposits and you give a spray down with starsan before brewing, it's pretty good.

Do pay attention to removing the tap and cleaning the threads around there, and also take the rubber seal out every now and then if you can and give a good wipe underneath etc. It shouldn't get too grungy unless you have a big vigorous fermentation.


----------



## Eddy Monsoon (23/9/20)

Fairly Dilute Tricleanium and a soft cloth, then store with the left over Starsan


----------



## Nullnvoid (23/9/20)

mje1980 said:


> Cheapest way is in 25kg sacks from a local chemical supply place ( this will be pure sodium per carbonate ). Or online in kg amounts. In a pinch napisan has it in smaller concentrations
> 
> By the way, 25kg will last a lifetime so maybe split with other brewers in your area
> 
> It’s also very good for stainless



I agree with everything except the 25kg will last a life time. Once you realise the potential right throughout the house, you will be using it everywhere! And then it only lasts about 2 years


----------



## carrobrew (23/9/20)

I use PBW with some hot water (just tap hot, and my tap water is not very hot, lucky to be 50c), or with water heated from my Brewzilla if I am cleaning that with PBW as well (usually around 50 or when I get sick of waiting for the solution to heat up) leave to soak for a while (halvies?) then rinse well with same temp water.

And that is not every brew either. Mostly I just hose the thing out with the garden hose on the highest pressure setting to remove all the gunk and wipe with a microfibre cloth then rinse a few times. If its got extra gunk on it I will do the PBW routine or just do that after a bunch of brews. (I dunno like 6-12?) I've got 2 fermenters one of the starter kit morgans ones and a coopers one. I noticed some slight scratches on the coopers one which I used for my last brew so may look at upgrading but no infection or anything yet.

As others said PBW is basically just sodium percarbonate with added detergents and surfactants for cutting through grease and oil (from hops and other trub etc) which sodium percarbonate is not great at doing, although is not necessary, lots of people only use sodium percarbonate with good results.

Just make sure you rinse the PBW out afterwards, and generally rinse with the same temp water you washed with. 

Also the hotter the temp the more effective the PBW, but with the plastics fermenters be careful not to do too hot and melt the thing.


----------



## wide eyed and legless (23/9/20)

Sodium Percarbonate is an unstable chemical stored in bulk as has been posted about the near misses on this forum. PBW is the best thing to use followed by an acid clean to sanitise.








Proper Cleaning and Sanitation - Brew Your Own


Be sure you understand some of the basics to keeping your equipment properly cleaned and sanitized.




byo.com


----------



## Paddy Melon (23/9/20)

I found that using Napisan or Aldi's Di-San powders soaked over nigh remove the Krausen, after brewing, works a treat. I plug the bubbler hole in the lid with one of those ear protection noise inserts (the ones you role in your fingers to fit) place a bucket of solution into the fermenter put on the lid turn fermenter upside down making sure the solution covers the Krausen line and leave over night. Krausen all gone no scrubbing. The Aldi Di San is cheap and works a treat for this kind of cleaning.


----------



## peterlonz (23/9/20)

kadmium said:


> Not to be pedantic, but specialised brewery cleaners are far more effective than Sodium Percarbonate. They have chelates, surfactants and other chemicals which will help remove beer stone.
> 
> However, I would imagine that a soak in PBW or even any power cleaner is not that critical for every use.
> 
> ...


An excellent & very practical response. My experience is that the plastic buckets sold as fermenters are not that easily scratched, nevertheless taking care is just common sense. Drain taps are the area of concern. I rarely remove mine but do run hot water & sterilent through whilst opening & closing.


----------



## kadmium (23/9/20)

Agreed, they aren't fragile made of paper, but you do need to take care of them. One thing I did notice when I put boiling hot water, it would destroy the little stick on thermometers on them, so just keep that in mind too!


----------



## carrobrew (23/9/20)

kadmium said:


> Agreed, they aren't fragile made of paper, but you do need to take care of them. One thing I did notice when I put boiling hot water, it would destroy the little stick on thermometers on them, so just keep that in mind too!


Yeah they are pretty solid.

The scratches I noticed on my coopers one I think were from the previous owner. Got mine off gumtree for $10. Still hasn't caused an issue but was thinking of upgrading to a SS brewbucket or one of the KL/KK pressure fermenters, although no CO2 at the moment.


----------



## carrobrew (23/9/20)

peterlonz said:


> An excellent & very practical response. My experience is that the plastic buckets sold as fermenters are not that easily scratched, nevertheless taking care is just common sense. Drain taps are the area of concern. I rarely remove mine but do run hot water & sterilent through whilst opening & closing.


I only found out after a year of brewing that you could take apart and clean the morgan's fementer taps. Although the coopers ones are much easier to take apart and also the tap is nicer to use when sampling and bottling.


----------



## mje1980 (23/9/20)

Nullnvoid said:


> I agree with everything except the 25kg will last a life time. Once you realise the potential right throughout the house, you will be using it everywhere! And then it only lasts about 2 years


Haha yes, the stovetop espresso has never been cleaner!


----------



## Grok (23/9/20)

These 2 products are good and cheap, add a pinch of "Sensitive" laundry detergent (unperfumed), as a wetting agent and good to go. Tricleanium you can get from Bunnings, paint section, usually next to the Sugar Soap, and the Laundry Booster is Sodium Percarbonate.


----------



## Nullnvoid (23/9/20)

mje1980 said:


> Haha yes, the stovetop espresso has never been cleaner!



Yep, and I tell you what, after a roast that pan is almost a joy to clean!


----------



## DU99 (23/9/20)

Used sodium bicarb for years no issues with storage..........fermenter looks like new


----------



## butisitart (23/9/20)

DarrenTheDrunk said:


> Hello fellow drinkers
> 
> Yes it is me again, how in the hell does everybody clean their fermenters?
> 
> Cheers and Beers Big Ears


no arguments with above posts, but my regime goes like this ;
as soon as i've bottled, soft cloth and water (garden hose, not in the kitchen, much easier). that's it. no cleaning products. if the krausen has gone to cement, then fill with water and soak 20-30mins. i usually do 2-3 fermenters and a bottling fermenter together, so recycle water from one fermenter to the next as i go. but it's a bit like rinsing your bottles when you drink them, do it pretty much straight up and they don't require a lot of hard work.
twice a year, homebrand napisan (sodium percarbonate, see laundry booster above) soak overnight and get it shiny new. that's a good time to chuck in lots of other stuff for a soak too, eg ss hop spiders, beer wands, bulk priming tubing etc. the sodium percarbonate isn't pure, but the homebrands aren't big on hospital fragrances, they're cheap, and maybe you don't need 25kg in the foreseeable future. you can get pure sodium percarbonate by the kilo for about $10-12 kilo from LHBS if you want the pure deal, but not always easily accesible.
not saying it's the correct / best regime, works for me, never had brew issues.


----------



## Morgz (23/9/20)

PBW all the way. Let's face it, brewing is all about cleaning, this stuff takes the hard work out of it. A balance of temperature, concentration and contact time. Increase 2 to reduce the 3rd. Its not linear, and remember, don't be stupid, they are chemicals. Sodium percarbonate on its own is no good for oils.


----------



## mje1980 (23/9/20)

What oils do you get in your fermenter? Have used sod perc for many years and it’s never failed to clean my gear. Ran out recently and bought PBW. Works great but leaves a slick residue that needs rinsing. Never had that with pure sod perc


----------



## Tomo (23/9/20)

Just used pbw to clean oven racks in my oven. Have been amazed how well it cleaned them with years of caustic cleaners. It's amazing.


----------



## kadmium (23/9/20)

mje1980 said:


> What oils do you get in your fermenter? Have used sod perc for many years and it’s never failed to clean my gear. Ran out recently and bought PBW. Works great but leaves a slick residue that needs rinsing. Never had that with pure sod perc


Hop oils? Adjuncts? And other organic deposits. As well as beer stone which sodium percarb won't remove on its own. You need chelates and surfactants to help lift deposits. 

Yes, sodium percarb will be fine, but a purpose made brewery cleaner is better in my opinion


----------



## DarrenTheDrunk (23/9/20)

kadmium said:


> Agreed, they aren't fragile made of paper, but you do need to take care of them. One thing I did notice when I put boiling hot water, it would destroy the little stick on thermometers on them, so just keep that in mind too!




Hi all

well at last I think I can at least offer some advice back in a small token of appreciation of the monumental amount of advice I have received from or you good fellows.

KADMIUM. My advice to you my friend is not to worry about those stick on thermometers and to go to Bunnings and get an Ozito Ir thermometer for under $25. They are way more accurate, have a 3 years warranty…and I did need to return 1 after 6 months but that’s a bit of bad luck, and they have so many more benefits. I use the bloody thing to ensure the deep fryer is at the required temp, the beer fridge is at the right temperature and far more important, when I’ve done something wrong and the missus comes in, a shoot out a beam on her forehead to see whether I need to run, hide or pray!!!

I have been a commercial fish breeder for many many years and have had a large pet shop business which had a huge fish room for over 20 years and I can promise you, that those stick on thermometers are as useless as a flat warm beer on a hot day.

Butustart. I have found even more recently that if you have that crud in a bottle that has been there for a few days, where ordinarily I would use chlorine to dissolve it, I half fill it full of water, stick my finger in the bottle, and shake the living shit out of it, pour that out and refill it then drain it and it seems to work quite well. So now I must sadly relinquish my title as the “chlorine king”. To think I spent most of my life trying to acquire such a title and for it to be shattered by this forum in only a few days has required ongoing psychological counselling… But with all your love and support… I am sure I will get over it.


----------



## razz (23/9/20)

DarrenTheDrunk said:


> when I’ve done something wrong and the missus comes in, a shoot out a beam on her forehead to see whether I need to run, hide or pray!!!


This!


----------



## kadmium (23/9/20)

razz said:


> This!


That's where I went wrong. I jab her with the probe thermometer. Usually ends up poorly for me!

Yeah I use a thermapen for Mash and a thermowell with probe for fermenter now. But agreed, I might grab an IR thermometer cause I like toys and gadgets lol


----------



## DarrenTheDrunk (23/9/20)

kadmium said:


> That's where I went wrong. I jab her with the probe thermometer. Usually ends up poorly for me!
> 
> Yeah I use a thermapen for Mash and a thermowell with probe for fermenter now. But agreed, I might grab an IR thermometer cause I like toys and gadgets lol




...and what bloke does not like toys !!!!


----------



## Paleman (24/9/20)

Can someone please explain what PBW is?


----------



## philrob (24/9/20)

PBW = Powdered Brewery Wash









Powdered Brewery Wash (PBW) 1kg • Lazy Dayz Brewing Supplies


StellarClean is an excellent choice as a soak cleaner because it does not require excessive heat as do most caustic based cleaners.



lazydayzbrewingsupplies.com.au


----------



## butisitart (24/9/20)

DarrenTheDrunk said:


> When the batteries go flat...do you offer to "help her out" !!!


nah, i'm not good mechanically


----------



## butisitart (24/9/20)

philrob said:


> PBW = Powdered Brewery Wash
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i'm in the market for some pbw, i thought it was a registered name, so there's stellarclean??
my lhbs doesn't carry either, unless there are more names for it. they've got stellar-soda (caustic soda), but not stellar-clean.


----------



## kadmium (24/9/20)

Keg king to an ABC cleaner made in Australia. Magic stuff but not sure what postage would cost


----------



## butisitart (24/9/20)

kadmium said:


> Keg king to an ABC cleaner made in Australia. Magic stuff but not sure what postage would cost


you can get it in brissie, but from where i live, it's either $10 tolls or a 2 day odyssey to get there (eg craftbrewer - wrong side of the river).
so just need to look around a bit more or pay either the toll or the courier.


----------



## kadmium (24/9/20)

Oh. Look at Mr. I CAN DRIVE MORE THAN 5KMS FROM MY HOUSE over here. Ooooh big deal *sob sob sob*


----------



## Paleman (25/9/20)

philrob said:


> PBW = Powdered Brewery Wash
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ah yeah, thats what i use.


----------



## butisitart (25/9/20)

kadmium said:


> Oh. Look at Mr. I CAN DRIVE MORE THAN 5KMS FROM MY HOUSE over here. Ooooh big deal *sob sob sob*


sooo soorrrryy. you'll keep.


----------



## Nullnvoid (25/9/20)

You mean there are people out there that can travel more than 5km!! Wow, it's a new world


----------



## peterlonz (26/9/20)

I found PBW on EBay after drawing a blank elsewhere. It was not cheap when postage was considered. 
Used to see it widely recommended. not so often these days.
I now do not use it, found alternatives that work but the product is sound.


----------



## Milhouse (26/9/20)

butisitart said:


> i'm in the market for some pbw, i thought it was a registered name, so there's stellarclean??
> my lhbs doesn't carry either, unless there are more names for it. they've got stellar-soda (caustic soda), but not stellar-clean.



Brewcraft in North Lakes stock it. Depending on where you live you could also try either country brewer in Stafford or the brew shed in Strathpine. Hoppy days is Virginia only stock pure sodium percarbonate.


----------



## Milhouse (26/9/20)

butisitart said:


> you can get it in brissie, but from where i live, it's either $10 tolls or a 2 day odyssey to get there (eg craftbrewer - wrong side of the river).
> so just need to look around a bit more or pay either the toll or the courier.


 Also I replied to the wrong reply earlier, meant to reply to this one


----------



## butisitart (26/9/20)

Milhouse said:


> Brewcraft in North Lakes stock it. Depending on where you live you could also try either country brewer in Stafford or the brew shed in Strathpine. Hoppy days is Virginia only stock pure sodium percarbonate.


lhbs is hoppy days, live in wooloowin, so stafford is good. cheers


----------



## grandadrob (26/9/20)

I use (UK) Chemipro for bottles but only hot water and elbow grease for my stainless steel fermenters..


----------



## Grmblz (27/9/20)

A mate proudly showed me his new plastic taps, solid black.
I shake my head and show him my tap cleaning jar, holding a white tap up to the light you can clearly see the gunge inside it, which leads you to remove it from the fermenter, whereupon you discover the gunge in the threads of both tap and fermenter.
My process: remove tap, brush out the threads on the fermenter and copiously spray with starsan, put the tap in boiling water to soften, using towel/gloves and superhuman effort pull tap apart, brush out any crud and store the two parts in a jar full of starsan. 
When needed, reassemble the tap using food grade silicon lube, if you omit the lube the tap WILL! drip.
Not saying the black taps are bad, just if we can't see it the assumption is that it's clean. 
Sorry if this has been covered elsewhere, just worth stressing imho.
btw, after 2 hrs of trying to pull a tap apart (please don't use the you tube method of using a screwdriver and banging it on a bench)
Please send $200.00 to "Grmblz @ I will take your money" for a free video on how to do it. Spoiler alert, it uses vice grips.


----------



## Nullnvoid (27/9/20)

Grmblz said:


> A mate proudly showed me his new plastic taps, solid black.
> I shake my head and show him my tap cleaning jar, holding a white tap up to the light you can clearly see the gunge inside it, which leads you to remove it from the fermenter, whereupon you discover the gunge in the threads of both tap and fermenter.
> My process: remove tap, brush out the threads on the fermenter and copiously spray with starsan, put the tap in boiling water to soften, using towel/gloves and superhuman effort pull tap apart, brush out any crud and store the two parts in a jar full of starsan.
> When needed, reassemble the tap using food grade silicon lube, if you omit the lube the tap WILL! drip.
> ...



Why not bang the tap apart with another tool. I don't use a screw driver but a wooden spoon fits perfectly. 

Or do I need to pay you the $200 to find out


----------



## philrob (27/9/20)

I use a piece of wooden dowel as my "tap dissembling tool". Just insert the dowel, hang on to the tap body, bang the dowel against a brick wall, and bingo, the tap comes apart. Easy peasy.


----------



## Grmblz (27/9/20)

Yep a wooden dowel/spoon would be fine I think, the vid I saw used a philips screwdriver, can only imagine the scratches it creates.
I have a pair of vice grips and grip the handle with them, then pull the things apart, not too hard after a quick soak in boiling water and no danger of any internal damage. Although the dowel/spoon method sounds a lot easier. Damn, gotta give refunds now.


----------



## butisitart (27/9/20)

Grmblz said:


> Although the dowel/spoon method sounds a lot easier. Damn, gotta give refunds now.


i was thinking about you and wooden spoons, and i was thinking of sending you the 200 hard earneds.
so i think you should think about refunding my cheque what i was honestly sending..,


----------



## Grmblz (27/9/20)

Maaate, I put the cheque in the post last week, honest I did.
As for wooden spoons I still shudder just thinking about them, my mom has a lot to answer for.


----------

