# CO2 Regulator "normal" operation



## find_another_slave (7/7/17)

HI guys, been doing the homebrew thing now for almost 2 years, enjoying it immensely, however I have had some issues with gas...

To start - I bought a whole shit load of kit off gumtree, kegs, fermenters, kegerator with font, gas bottle, etc etc etc.

Brewed, set it all up - everything worked, pressure, gas stayed. For 12 months has flawless performance, always left the gas bottle on, then after taking a keg out for a weekend (to an Oktoberfest party), came back to empty gas bottle, then ultimately no gas left in the system. Swearing ensued...

It was this time I was already on the road to a new Kegerator, so after acquiring some taps, reg, etc from a fellow forumite, i obtained the guts of a kegerator from craftbrewer (manifold, gas and beer lines, disconnects, check valves etc). 
Set it all up - leaks.
Manifold the culprit. Replaced.
LEAKS!
Went over this thing with a fine tooth comb, finally cracked the shits and dropped my old reg back into the mix, on my other gas bottle - seeming SUCCESS!!! it's been like that for months, but I still always turn off the bottle when not using it.



***So, here's where I need to fill gaps in my knowledge/understanding*** 

1. Using my old Tuesco reg - pressurise the system, turn off the bottle. Is it normal for the high pressure gauge to drop to 0. Low pressure maintains pressure

2. My "new" micromatic reg hooked up to the same system - can't hold pressure - i.e. both gauges drop to 0. However connected to a single gas disconnect, it hold pressure just FINE. (I can't recall if the reg hold pressure with the main line valve closed, but it definitely does with it open on the single disconnect)

(note in both 1 and 2 above, gas line comes out the side of the kegerator, connected to the bottle via check valves

3. Anyone ever heard of a gas bottle leaking? I am convinced I was getting a leak at times when turning off the gas bottle itself.

I am wary to touch it, in case it breaks again...it was doing my head in, to the point where I didn't want to keg anymore...

Many, many thanks to Anthony @ Craftbrewer for his patient assistance with these issues.


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## Grott (7/7/17)

Leaks can be a shit but you need to eliminate things one by one.
Your point 1. If the gas line was still connected to a keg then the high pressure could drop as co2 is being absorbed by the keg.
Point 2. If both dropped then it would appear to be a leak but you say if you connect to a single disconnect all good, therefore other gas line/s must have a leak. How many gas lines?
Point 3. Yes a gas bottle can leak. Check around everthing with soapy water. Check regulator connection to bottle. If you suspect bottle on its own you could disconnect reg. Weigh the bottle on scales ( bathrooms?) and again after a few hours, 24 hours check again.

Now first check of gas lines, disconnect from kegs, put 30psi into those lines then turn off gas bottle. If after an hour or two there is pressure drop in the gauge then one or more of the lines leak.

Let us know your progress but don't give up.


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## klangers (8/7/17)

Unfortunately it's a real PITA, but as Grott says the only way is to be patient and methodical. Although it's frustrating, cutting corners with your leak tests will only delay the discovery of the leak.

The HP gauge will drop (with the bottle valve closed) if gas is being consumed in the system. The LP side is the regulated side, so until the HP drops below the low pressure, the LP gauge won't move. The HP gauge is the one you want to observe for your leaks.

Start from the regulator, shut everything off, open gas bottle to pressurise system then shut it. If the HP gauge drops over 12 hours then you have a leak.

I highly doubt it's the bottle leaking, but you do need to eliminate that possibility first. Kegs and keg disconnects are responsible for the vast majority of leaks in these systems.


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## GalBrew (8/7/17)

The joys of kegerator ownership.


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## Grott (10/7/17)

find_another_slave, how have you progressed, found the problems?


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## find_another_slave (10/7/17)

No progress as yet - school holidays keeping me on my toes.

Just one more thing - HP gauge being the one that tells me how much gas is left in the bottle? That one drops (on the current reg) almost immediately after turning the bottle off. The other one holds pressure at 80kPa or so, but does drop a little (new keg in the system, force carbed, but coming up), which is what I would expect on that side.

Talking to Micromatic directly about the reg, not much has happened thus far on that front.


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## Grott (10/7/17)

The high pressure gauge tells you how much pressure is in the bottle and will stay at that pressure until you have bugger all gas left so don't be fooled in assuming the bottle is necessarily full. It can change a bit with large changes in ambient temperatures eg. Very cold, gas liquefies more and gauge reading drops a bit or higher temp, more gas pressure in bottle so gauge reading goes up a bit.

If this gauge drops straight away after turning the bottle off then you have a leak. Start with your gas lines. When ready help is available here.


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## Tricky Dicky (11/6/18)

Grott said:


> Leaks can be a shit but you need to eliminate things one by one.
> Your point 1. If the gas line was still connected to a keg then the high pressure could drop as co2 is being absorbed by the keg.
> Point 2. If both dropped then it would appear to be a leak but you say if you connect to a single disconnect all good, therefore other gas line/s must have a leak. How many gas lines?
> Point 3. Yes a gas bottle can leak. Check around everthing with soapy water. Check regulator connection to bottle. If you suspect bottle on its own you could disconnect reg. Weigh the bottle on scales ( bathrooms?) and again after a few hours, 24 hours check again.
> ...


I've just bought a co2 bottle with a new Tuesco regulator. So to test my line I connected a gas line with the grey connector on it.Turned on the bottle and turned on the regulator to 200 psa. Turned off the bottle and left the line reading 200 psa. After about 4 hours it was still at 200 psa. Left it over night (a pretty chilly one in Melbourne last night) this morning it reads 180 psa, so do I have a problem?


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## dblunn (11/6/18)

It means you don't have any leaks in your gas line (that's a good thing). Press the pin in the grey disconnect and the pressure will drop.


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## Tricky Dicky (11/6/18)

dblunn said:


> It means you don't have any leaks in your gas line (that's a good thing). Press the pin in the grey disconnect and the pressure will drop.


Just to clarify,the grey connector is not connected to anything apart from the tube which is connected to the regulator. So I'm not sure why you think there's no leaks in the gas line?


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## dblunn (11/6/18)

Yes, the disconnect has a stop valve, when it not connected it will hold the pressure in the line.


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## Tricky Dicky (11/6/18)

So do you think the drop in pressure of co2 in the line is ok?


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## Tricky Dicky (11/6/18)

I tightened the regulator brass nut one more time (just a smidgen) and gassed up the line again at 200 psa and turned off the gas bottle. That was 10 hours ago and the pressure is still at 200 psa in the line. I'll leave it overnight again and see what it reads in the morning.


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## Rocker1986 (12/6/18)

The drop in pressure could be due to temperature, I don't know. I've done an inadvertent test on my own system overnight, well actually since about 3pm yesterday. Cleaned out a keg and because there's nothing on tap I turned off the cylinder completely. High pressure and low pressure gauges haven't moved since. On the last cylinder I had, they would drop to zero slowly, maybe there was a small leak there, or maybe I just hadn't tightened the regulator nut properly. The thing still lasted about 9 or 10 months though, which is pretty good considering all the high level carbed soda water that it did plus keg cleaning and shit. Usually I get about 11 months out of one 6.8kg cylinder which is used for carbonating, dispensing and cleaning.


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## Tricky Dicky (12/6/18)

Rocker1986 said:


> The drop in pressure could be due to temperature, I don't know. I've done an inadvertent test on my own system overnight, well actually since about 3pm yesterday. Cleaned out a keg and because there's nothing on tap I turned off the cylinder completely. High pressure and low pressure gauges haven't moved since. On the last cylinder I had, they would drop to zero slowly, maybe there was a small leak there, or maybe I just hadn't tightened the regulator nut properly. The thing still lasted about 9 or 10 months though, which is pretty good considering all the high level carbed soda water that it did plus keg cleaning and shit. Usually I get about 11 months out of one 6.8kg cylinder which is used for carbonating, dispensing and cleaning.


My pressure was fine at 200 psa this morning so it had gone 18 hours and hadn't budged. So I left it and when I came home 6 hours later its dropped by 10 psa so its slowing down slowly. I pulled out my biggest adjustable spanner and nipped up the regulator nut once more, I guess i'm a bit cautious not wanting to over tighten it and break the bloody thing!


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## FarsideOfCrazy (12/6/18)

Temperature will cause your low pressure reg to drop over night. Leave it for a few days. If it continues to drop you have a small leak.


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## Rocker1986 (12/6/18)

What unit of pressure is psa? Never heard of it. The regs usually use bar, psi or kPa or combinations of those. Mine has bar and psi on it.


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## koshari (13/6/18)

200 psi is huge for lp side. 40 or 50 is heaps for checking lp.


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## theSeekerr (13/6/18)

koshari said:


> 200 psi is huge for lp side. 40 or 50 is heaps for checking lp.



More likely they meant 200kPa, which is a more normal 2 bar / 30 psi


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## koshari (13/6/18)

theSeekerr said:


> More likely they meant 200kPa, which is a more normal 2 bar / 30 psi


I hope so


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## Tricky Dicky (13/6/18)

Rocker1986 said:


> What unit of pressure is psa? Never heard of it. The regs usually use bar, psi or kPa or combinations of those. Mine has bar and psi on it.


My bad, I should have put kpa.


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## Tricky Dicky (19/6/18)

Do regulators slowly/smoothly release co2 when the pressure drops in a 19l keg head space or is it more of a short sharp burst when the pressure drops, how sensitive are they usually?


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## Rocker1986 (19/6/18)

They just release gas until the pressure is back to where it was before. I usually find it's a pretty nondescript event. You pour a beer and hear it gas in for about 10-20 seconds after and then it stops, however the longer it sits on the gas the less it does this, at least with any noise attached. I only notice it when the keg is quite full and hasn't been on gas very long i.e. has only just reached the carbonation level I'm after. When it's been there a while I'm sure it still adds a bit of gas but it must be a lot less because you don't hear it making any noise.


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## Tricky Dicky (19/6/18)

Rocker1986 said:


> They just release gas until the pressure is back to where it was before. I usually find it's a pretty nondescript event. You pour a beer and hear it gas in for about 10-20 seconds after and then it stops, however the longer it sits on the gas the less it does this, at least with any noise attached. I only notice it when the keg is quite full and hasn't been on gas very long i.e. has only just reached the carbonation level I'm after. When it's been there a while I'm sure it still adds a bit of gas but it must be a lot less because you don't hear it making any noise.


thanks for that.


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## EalingDrop (19/6/18)

What if you attach a check valve? There would be any back pressure to read from?


Rocker1986 said:


> They just release gas until the pressure is back to where it was before. I usually find it's a pretty nondescript event. You pour a beer and hear it gas in for about 10-20 seconds after and then it stops, however the longer it sits on the gas the less it does this, at least with any noise attached. I only notice it when the keg is quite full and hasn't been on gas very long i.e. has only just reached the carbonation level I'm after. When it's been there a while I'm sure it still adds a bit of gas but it must be a lot less because you don't hear it making any noise.


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## Rocker1986 (20/6/18)

I've got check valves on my manifold, and also a non return valve along the line that runs from the regulator to the manifold. It doesn't seem to affect anything like that. The back pressure would be less than the pressure set on the regulator anyway, otherwise it wouldn't be sending gas into the keg at all. 

When I do notice the gas being replaced upon pouring a beer, it always starts making the noise pretty much as soon as I begin pouring the beer at first. After another week or so on gas, the noise doesn't start until about half way through the pour, and after another week or two I don't hear anything much at all. And then it splutters everywhere because the keg blows dry.


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## Tricky Dicky (21/6/18)

Rocker1986 said:


> I've got check valves on my manifold, and also a non return valve along the line that runs from the regulator to the manifold. It doesn't seem to affect anything like that. The back pressure would be less than the pressure set on the regulator anyway, otherwise it wouldn't be sending gas into the keg at all.
> 
> When I do notice the gas being replaced upon pouring a beer, it always starts making the noise pretty much as soon as I begin pouring the beer at first. After another week or so on gas, the noise doesn't start until about half way through the pour, and after another week or two I don't hear anything much at all. And then it splutters everywhere because the keg blows dry.


A serious crises looms in the UK....... 


https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44545010


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## Skillz (21/6/18)

Better buy up on the cheap co2 bottles in Oz while you can


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## madscientist (21/6/18)

Skillz said:


> Better buy up on the cheap co2 bottles in Oz while you can


Very cheap - 2.6kg co2 for $69 using S4OFJULY code at kegland atm.


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## Rocker1986 (21/6/18)

Well mine's good for another 10 or 11 months... it'll probably be offline for a while itself while we look to buy a house and move around the end of the year/beginning of next year. 

Maybe they could draw some of the excess CO2 from the atmosphere that they're all talking about and use that instead


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## Ben Davies (21/6/18)

Tricky Dicky said:


> A serious crises looms in the UK.......
> 
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44545010


Maybe they could learn from coopers brewery and prime their kegs instead crisis solved.


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## S.E (21/6/18)

Tricky Dicky said:


> A serious crises looms in the UK.......
> 
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/news/business-44545010


What crisis? The best UK beers don’t require extraneous CO2, they are pumped or gravity dispensed.


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## S.E (21/6/18)

Ben Davies said:


> Maybe they could learn from coopers brewery and prime their kegs instead crisis solved.


Coopers brewery learned that from UK breweries.


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## Ben Davies (22/6/18)

S.E said:


> Coopers brewery learned that from UK breweries.


Well there ya go an inflated article then. There is always a way around it.


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## FarsideOfCrazy (22/6/18)

I thought the breweries used the c02 from fermentation to carb the beer. It's siphoned off, scrubbed to remove odour then used to carb. It's the dispensing of beer and soft drink industries that use it.


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## KegLand-com-au (22/6/18)

madscientist said:


> Very cheap - 2.6kg co2 for $69 using S4OFJULY code at kegland atm.



That's corret. I cant see you guys getting a cheaper deal EVER again.

The price is already cheap at $89 https://www.kegland.com.au/co2-gas-cylinders-2-6kg-full.html

But then use the discount code and it's insanely cheap. Starting to get close to the cost of a refill.


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