# Lets compare, I'll show you mine if you show me yours.



## wide eyed and legless (30/12/16)

OK received my new rates for gas and electricity, to give a bit of bargaining power if we compared the rates with each other it could give us some leverage when questioning our rates and service to property.

State Vic company Lumo

Gas.
Service to property $0.69 / day. Winter. First 57.52 MJ / day $0.023. Remaining $0.018
Summer. First 57.30 MJ / day $0.021. Remaining $0.017
Discount 15% prices GST inc

Electricity.
Service to property $1.18 / day Peak usage ($ / kWh ) $0.31
Off peak usage ($ / kWh ) $0.14
Discount 22% prices GST inc

Feed in tariff (solar) $0.66 / kWh

Normally I will stay with the same company, nearly moved to Energy Australia they offered me 44% on electricity but it is a trap with solar sounds better than what it is.


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## SBOB (30/12/16)

With that feed in tariff why would you think of moving... 

Someone did some bad maths when they thought that offering more for feed in kw/h than usage kw/h was a smart/sustainable idea..


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## wide eyed and legless (30/12/16)

They all offer around the same feed in tariff, the taxpayers pay for it.


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## Leyther (30/12/16)

Looks expensive to me but then I find these things hard to read and understand, we are with simply energy + racv discounts

Electricity

Peak Electricity 08-Jul to 07-Oct 2139.50 kWh 0.233000 $498.50
Peak Electricity 08-Oct to 12-Oct 104.24 kWh 0.233000 $24.29
Supply Service Charges
Description Unit Price Total (excl. GST)
Supply Charges ( 97 Days ) 0.978700 $94.93

Discount Plan : 30% RACV Guaranteed/eBill/Direct Debit Discount
Supply Charges $94.93 @ fixed 30%off $28.48Cr
Electricity $522.79 @ fixed 30%off $156.84Cr

Gas

Energy Charges
Meter Type Meter Number Previous Date Previous Reading Current Date Current Reading Bill Days Usage MJ
Basic 4969CQ 22-Sep 9926 A 23-Nov 2 A 62 2943.68
Tariff Description Consumption Unit Price Total (excl GST)
GAS 23-Sep to 27-Sep 237.39 MJ 0.018700 $4.44
GAS 28-Sep to 30-Sep 142.44 MJ 0.018700 $2.66
GAS 01-Oct to 31-Oct 1471.84 MJ 0.017900 $26.35
GAS 01-Nov to 23-Nov 1092.01 MJ 0.017900 $19.55
Supply Service Charges
Description Unit Price Total (excl. GST)
Supply Charges ( 62 Days ) 0.608100 $37.70
Discounts
Description Total (excl. GST)
Discount Plan : 16% RACV Guaranteed Discount
GAS $53.00 @ fixed 16%off $8.48Cr
Supply Charges $37.70 @ fixed 16%off $6.03Cr


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## Maheel (30/12/16)

i fricking hate the daily charge on gas
90% of my bill is the daily charge FFS

100% reckon i should be using bunnings gas bottles as only gas thing in the house is the cooktop


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## SBOB (30/12/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> They all offer around the same feed in tariff, the taxpayers pay for it.


Its ending in NSW at the end of this month (I think)... you have a bit longer in Vic if you're on the original FIT signup (I think)

I do enjoy subsidising other peoples electricity bills


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## sp0rk (30/12/16)

Maheel said:


> 100% reckon i should be using bunnings gas bottles as only gas thing in the house is the cooktop


A mate of mine does this, he gets his bottles filled cheap via his work and just has 2 on rotation for his stove


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## wide eyed and legless (30/12/16)

The FIT agreement I am on ends 31st Dec 2024. 
Leyther you should have your new rates for next year as they all went up, it is hard to compare when listening to the sales pitch, they quote with GST or without GST, different discounts. That's why I would be interested to see what others are paying in plain English, I change my home and contents each year because most of the insurer's give a 30% discount for the first year to sign you up, and this year I changed my private health cover for the very first time.


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## TwoCrows (30/12/16)

G'day Mate, I looked at my charges and for the gas prices they are the same as mine.

I am with LUMO in Parkdale Vic 3195

The power for me is anytime rate $0.23


No solar on roof. If I go solar it will be off grid.


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## manticle (30/12/16)

I'm in TAS so we pay around 1 million dollars a month to run one small heater.

Power here is a ******* rip.

We do get a choice between aurora and aurora though which is good for competition.


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## goomboogo (30/12/16)

manticle said:


> I'm in TAS so we pay around 1 million dollars a month to run one small heater.
> 
> Power here is a ******* rip.
> 
> We do get a choice between aurora and aurora though which is good for competition.


You should ring Aurora and see if they'll better the competitor's pricing.


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## manticle (30/12/16)

I'm too busy burning my furniture to stay warm


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## feralbass (30/12/16)

Guys,
I have been enjoying $60.00 power bills since the kids got married (solar power and water). Not looking forward to the 2017 bills when my $0.60 in-feed tariff comes off.
Water bill down by 25% when each kid left (only 2), should have got rid of them earlier or charged them board or something.


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## scooterism (30/12/16)

Thanks to solar, I can't remember the last bill where we needed to pay the bastards.

Water on the other hand..


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## Bribie G (30/12/16)

As a tenant without solar (this will probably change in the future when a portable system, or a power company owned system, is installed on rentals.. much like Foxtel dishes where they shout the dish to get your business) I'm chuffed that the feed in tariff is being scrapped.

With advances in panel technology it shouldn't be too far away.


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## wide eyed and legless (31/12/16)

I was thinking SA would have the dearer power, even though Tassie has the hydro they do import a lot of power from Victoria.

I understand that the energy retailers are out for business, they buy from the wholesaler and try and get the best price possible through the speel merchants on the phone, its just that now, after speaking to them, and no matter how hard you try to understand the prices thrown at you, I feel the same way as I feel after buying a new car, never can nail a real good deal.


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## Zorco (12/1/17)

I'll try and get into this. A good mate of mine works at EDMI and has given me a power meter. I'll try and add data in the brewer context. (Using a couple of tariffs here)


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## wide eyed and legless (16/3/17)

Since starting to brew again this year I had a power bill yesterday, after a full month of the cool room in operation nonstop set on 18 degrees C day and night plus the cold crash fridge set on 2 degrees C, the bill came in lower than the same time last year and still in credit.

The gas bills are being tipped to go through the roof, though have to wonder if this is another ploy by either the energy companies or the government to push for fracking, or softening the blow for our importation of gas.


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## TwoCrows (16/3/17)

Australia is exporting gas to Japan below what it costs to remove from the ground , treat and transport. False economy or deals done with Japan. We are paying to offset the loss. 

It is cheaper to purchase the gas back from Japan then what we are paying for it now.


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## wide eyed and legless (16/3/17)

Well I'm not going to sit idly by and let the energy companies shaft me, I have a plan to use green energy covered in oily trichomes to pay for my gas.

If its cheaper to buy it back from Japan then we may as well not send it and just give them a load of dollars.


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## TwoCrows (16/3/17)

It all boils down to we the " Government" don't want to look like a Banana Republic. WE have sold everything that truly is worth something to all of use as a nation.

Hazelwood is shutting down and the media is stating, That it is a change for renewable sources for the power industry.
In reality the French own it and are closing it down so they can offset their carbon footprint in France.


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## TwoCrows (16/3/17)

Quote I have a plan to use green energy covered in oily trichomes to pay for my gas.

These are hops right?


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## wide eyed and legless (16/3/17)

Of course it is.


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## DJ_L3ThAL (16/3/17)

manticle said:


> I'm in TAS so we pay around 1 million dollars a month to run one small heater.
> 
> Power here is a ******* rip.
> 
> We do get a choice between aurora and aurora though which is good for competition.


That's F-ed. I'm with Momentum and they are awesome, so at least you know your beautiful green hydro power you aren't allowed to purchase is going to someone cool like me.


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## labels (16/3/17)

SA certainly does have the dearest power but when I read the local paper which published all the rates the comparitive prices other states are paying is very little difference. Okay we got the dearest but we're talking a few percent at the outside.

We've also have the most unreliable but unfortunately, SA having the dearest and most unrelaible sounds like it's going to hit the rest of the country pretty bloody quickly and become a national problem


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## Danscraftbeer (16/3/17)

Forgive me for not reading every word of the thread but chiming in anyway.

Technology gets better, smaller, more efficient and cheaper.

Coal (any finite source) only gets more expensive. 

They're cry: "Oh the pressure on the grid! blah blah is why we have to charge you more and more! Oh those clean energy (options of additional energy supply) like solar panels are failing you! That's why your air conditioner wouldn't work for you in sunny hot stinking heat wave!!!! 
So kill them clean energy greeny scum they are the reason you nearly suffered heat stroke on a stinking hot sunny day!!!!!!


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## mr_wibble (17/3/17)

Maheel said:


> i fricking hate the daily charge on gas
> 90% of my bill is the daily charge FFS
> 
> 100% reckon i should be using bunnings gas bottles as only gas thing in the house is the cooktop


Our local gas suppliers will check and fill a big household gas bottle for about $110 a year (bottle rental, services fees, whatever) plus the cost of the gas.

I have 2x 9kg gas bottles, which I fill myself when empty ($22), and one lasts 3-4 months - I switch between the two (literally turning a tap to point to the other bottle). 
I'm usually pretty anal about getting that empty refilled promptly.

So we spend about $80 a year on stove-top gas, plus the time to goto the hardware store.

Cooking for the whole family is done on that gas cooktop. While I haven't sat down and compared the cost against the change in the electricity bill, I think we're a little bit ahead with the gas stove instead of electricity, and it's still 100% a-ok in a power-out.


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## Cerveja (17/3/17)

Haven't use the big bottle for years. Absolute rip off to charge $100 plus for nothing at all. Used to refill 3x9kg bottles but that is as expensive as the swap n go now. Big plus is SWMBO is happy to do the swap at the servo when she gets fuel. At some stage people will wake up to the rip off and the gas companies might respond. ATM they are just cashing in as everyone is happy to hand the hard earned over without even thinking about it.


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## wide eyed and legless (16/6/17)

Energy Australia announced a 20% increase in electricity prices today, but not to worry it's only temporary until the renewables kick in. Yeah right.
Finally got my neighbour to cut down the trees which block off my solar panels during winter. She had a psychotic episode believing skinny Somalis were getting into her kitchen via the doggie door, I told her if the trees weren't there I could keep an eye on things.
Now our washing dries quicker and I am clocking up some kwh's.


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## Ducatiboy stu (16/6/17)

TwoCrows said:


> It all boils down to we the " Government" don't want to look like a Banana Republic. WE have sold everything that truly is worth something to all of use as a nation.
> 
> Hazelwood is shutting down and the media is stating, That it is a change for renewable sources for the power industry.
> In reality the French own it and are closing it down so they can offset their carbon footprint in France.




Actually...the reason Hazelwood is shut is because it is completely fucked. It was supposed to shut down 20yrs ago ( when it was completely fucked ), but they did a major re-fit to extend its life.

It would be cheaper to build a new power station than to keep Hazelwood working.

The government knew it was fucked but didnt bother to put any strategies in place...hence now the panic

My Aunty was one of those that worked on the original design & the re-fit ( she has Phd in Coal combustion ) and she said it was amazing that it stayed working for as long as it did

And as for her view on clean coal. The word bullshit is her most uttered response when she is asked this


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## wide eyed and legless (16/6/17)

What Tony Abbott suggested was the best idea, run Hazlewood into the ground over 2 to 3 years while new coal fired powered plants were built.
Then again with the amount of coal fired plants Japan has in the pipeline, and the fondness they have for our coal, will leave any coal plants we build wanting, or paying a higher premium for the black stuff.


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## SBOB (16/6/17)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Energy Australia announced a 20% increase in electricity prices today, .



yeah, got the same email...
time to start the usual yearly price comparison shop around.


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## Batz (16/6/17)

Australia has plenty of coal, build some new state of the art coal fired stations now. Then fu&k around with renewable solar etc that can not possibly replace them anyway. Otherwise stop whinging about power costs, or go stand alone with your own solar.


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## labels (16/6/17)

Strange times we live in. 35 years ago in the UK, Maggie shut down all the coal mines and the lefties went berserk. Here we are in 2017 and the lefties want to shut down all the coal mines and the righties are going bersek.


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## SBOB (16/6/17)

Batz said:


> Australia has plenty of coal, build some new state of the art coal fired stations now. Then fu&k around with renewable solar etc that can not possibly replace them anyway. Otherwise stop whinging about power costs, or go stand alone with your own solar.



or, you know, the government could make a f*cking decision over our future energy sources so private and government sectors could make investment decisions with some degree of certainty on their ROI. No investment into new stuff, means old stuff costs more to maintain, supply and maintenance costs go up and suppliers can use that uncertainty as a really good reason to hike prices


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## wide eyed and legless (17/6/17)

Yes Australia has plenty of coal, we have plenty of gas to, doesn't make the price of the gas any cheaper for us consumers in Australia.
I remember reading some years ago (regarding GST) the best way to hit everybody's pocket rich or poor hike up the price of energy resources, well that is happening and we still have GST and more than likely that will go up in the not too distant future.
If we went nuclear it would be cleaner and they would need a good excuse to put the power prices up then.
Agree with SBOB, and we will never get a decision made by a bumbling prime minister who doesn't know left from right.


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## Grott (17/6/17)

Buy our gas from Japan, easy.
SA highest gas and electricity prices in the country. Closed coal mine and power plant without any substitute, backup or even a plan.
Question - why are we pissing coal off, yet sell it to India, China etc so they can pollute the world further.
Answer - because the pollution stays within the boundaries of those countries and only pollutes them. Plus we are hypocritical.


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## Grott (17/6/17)

Paper today had suggestions for us to say power.
"Get rid of the beer fridge", F$%king what!!!
"Have cold showers" that's so we can freeze to death quicker as we can't afford to run the heating.
"Use cold water in dishwashing machine" well we don't have one but would that work???? Better suggestion would be to wash dishes by hand - derrrrr


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## labels (18/6/17)

Yep, I'm building a waste oil burner from scrap and waste oil is also scrap but, there's a ton of energy in waste oil. Right now we're an all electric house, gas is far too expensive to put on and with spiralling gas prices it seems stupid to even think about it.

If the waste oil burner works well I may consider converting our wood combustion heater to waste oil or hybrid and also use it to heat our hot water service. Only a wintertime thing of course, bet we can add solar to the hot water service for summer.


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## wide eyed and legless (19/6/17)

Canada has 3 power stations with CCS systems, prevents 90% of the CO2 going into the atmosphere, it may take up 20% of the energy produced by the power plant but surely that should be enough for our government to move forward and OK whatever power plants we need to keep energy clean and cheap. I just don't understand what is so hard.
Wind turbines and solar energy at the moment is not good enough, it's akin to saying all food must be produced organically, no GM produce, no chemicals, it would be expensive and 1/2 the world's population would starve.


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## Ducatiboy stu (19/6/17)

Lucky for us WEAL that renewable technology is getting cheaper by the day


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## wide eyed and legless (19/6/17)

One would think so, I somehow don't believe that any savings are passed on to us, I have just been reading about high altitude pseudo satellites, cheap to make no, huge launching costs can take the place of phone towers where the area is to remote, bomb insurgents, and generally be an eye in the sky . Can stay airborne for years only coming in to land for maintenance. But we have a stumbling block in managing energy resources.


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## Dave70 (19/6/17)

Good. Because 'actual' satellites are becoming a riskier proposition due to over half a million pieces of man made shit orbiting round us at thirty thousand kph. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kessler_syndrome

So soon we wont even be able to escape the planet if we wanted.
Time to start living under ground like Morlocks I think. Or people in Coober Pedy. Thats gotta be worth 6 stars.


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## Grott (19/6/17)

Don't forget the Government has a big vested interested in energy prices (amongst other things), it's called GST.


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## wide eyed and legless (22/6/17)

Dave70 said:


> So soon we wont even be able to escape the planet if we wanted.
> 
> Won't be no escape for us, 99% of all species that have lived on earth are now extinct, I think the remaining 1% is bacteria.


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## Ducatiboy stu (22/6/17)

Was watching a segment on ABC yesterday about AGL and their view on electricity production.

AGL want to get out of coal, they see it as more costly in the long term

They are also shutting Liddell Power station in 5yrs time ( they actully announced the shut down 2 yrs ago )

Liddell is the NSW version of Hazelwood. Was supposed to be closed 15yrs ago but had a major refit


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## wide eyed and legless (22/6/17)

Thats the problem, no one wants to invest in coal because the government will not give a firm opinion on the future of coal power plants,
but no one knows what we are going to do in the meantime, except keep putting the prices up.


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## Grott (22/6/17)

I often wonder how many politicians have solar power, have special energy deals, claim part if not all on us. You never hear from them complaining about the costs personally, never.


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## Ducatiboy stu (22/6/17)

Personally I would like to see every new house build have solar panels and batteries installed.

Sure it might add $10k to building a new house, but that isnt much on a $2-300k house


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## Dave70 (22/6/17)

Solar / wind power on anything other than the micro level is laughable and its about time we got that through out heads, and more importantly, pressuring guberment to do likewise. There are far more promising fields like bio fuel secreting bacteria that actually absorb CO2, vastly more efficient nuclear reactors, and yes, even the always ' 30 years away' fusion energy we should be pumping R&D money into. Displacing the farmers livestock with eye sore wind-farms and solar panels, rendered impotent as soon as nature fails to co operate is a fools erred and a sink hole for moneys that could be far more wisely invested. 
Coal is simple, cheap and will see us well into the 22nd century. Clean it up, make it more efficient, stop hating on it. Its a wondrous thing. We should be exploiting the fact that we have it in spades. Even gas will see us out for the next 120 years, and much cleaner.
Bankrupting business to fund renewable energy white elephants and freezing old folk to death because they cant afford to turn on the second bar on the old radiant heater isn't the way to go.

Important to note also that government basically **** every project they touch to pieces. Leave it to private enterprise.


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## Grott (22/6/17)

And South Australia is a top example Dave as to wind farm, solar, coal plant closure **** ups as to cost and how Governments can kill off the elderly and make the poor poorer.
Before the 20% power hike comes in July 1, SA has over 12,000 homes with electricity cut off, businesses are leaving in droves and won't invest here.
Beware of what you wish for.


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## Grott (22/6/17)

And another thing, SA has an abundance of gas, my last bill ending March 2017 paid $0.36.6 cents per MJ. We SA, sell to Japan for $0.06 a MJ. You work that out, we should buy from Japan.

Thanks Dave, I'll have to have a beer now.


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## Dave70 (22/6/17)

Grott said:


> And South Australia is a top example Dave as to wind farm, solar, coal plant closure **** ups as to cost and how Governments can kill off the elderly and make the poor poorer.
> Before the 20% power hike comes in July 1, SA has over 12,000 homes with electricity cut off, businesses are leaving in droves and won't invest here.
> Beware of what you wish for.






Grott said:


> And another thing, SA has an abundance of gas, my last bill ending March 2017 paid $0.36.6 cents per MJ. We SA, sell to Japan for $0.06 a MJ. You work that out, we should buy from Japan.
> 
> Thanks Dave, *I'll have to have abler now*.



_Posted Today at 11:01 AM_

I like the cut of your jib..


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## Ducatiboy stu (22/6/17)

Dave70 said:


> Solar / wind power on anything other than the micro level is laughable and its about time we got that through out heads, and more importantly, pressuring guberment to do likewise. There are far more promising fields like bio fuel secreting bacteria that actually absorb CO2, vastly more efficient nuclear reactors, and yes, even the always ' 30 years away' fusion energy we should be pumping R&D money into. *Displacing the farmers livestock with eye sore wind-farms* and solar panels, rendered impotent as soon as nature fails to co operate is a fools erred and a sink hole for moneys that could be far more wisely invested.
> Coal is simple, cheap and will see us well into the 22nd century. Clean it up, make it more efficient, stop hating on it. Its a wondrous thing. We should be exploiting the fact that we have it in spades. Even gas will see us out for the next 120 years, and much cleaner.
> Bankrupting business to fund renewable energy white elephants and freezing old folk to death because they cant afford to turn on the second bar on the old radiant heater isn't the way to go.
> 
> Important to note also that government basically **** every project they touch to pieces. Leave it to private enterprise.



Seen the Hunter Valley lately...hardly ******* paradise, air that smells like rotten eggs that you can cut chunks out of....( although not yet as bad as Beijing )...and holes...lots and lots of great big holes


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## wide eyed and legless (30/8/18)

Has anyone in Victoria got the $50 off the Andrews Government for visiting the energy website, had no intention of changing energy companies just wanted the $50


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## Elz (30/8/18)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Has anyone in Victoria got the $50 off the Andrews Government for visiting the energy website, had no intention of changing energy companies just wanted the $50


According to recent email the cheques in the mail. Colleague has received a cheque, which took about 6 weeks. $50 = one 23l batch of a very good hoppy home brew!


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## wide eyed and legless (30/8/18)

I will be getting the 66 cents per kilo watt hour until 2024 by which time I would imagine the power prices will be around the same price. Will be bulking up my solar and checking out the batteries for then which will be hopefully cheaper. Good old labor party always rely on them for using OP's money.


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## Nullnvoid (30/8/18)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Has anyone in Victoria got the $50 off the Andrews Government for visiting the energy website, had no intention of changing energy companies just wanted the $50



Yes we claimed it. We had already used it and changed. So we did it again and it still said the same company. But we collected the $50. 

Or something like that, I wasn't really listening to the finance minister when she was telling me.


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## wide eyed and legless (30/8/18)

Nullnvoid said:


> Yes we claimed it. We had already used it and changed. So we did it again and it still said the same company. But we collected the $50.
> 
> Or something like that, I wasn't really listening to the finance minister when she was telling me.


How long did it take them to cough up?


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## Nullnvoid (31/8/18)

wide eyed and legless said:


> How long did it take them to cough up?



Few weeks I think? Not outrageously long.


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## koshari (31/8/18)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> They are also shutting Liddell Power station in 5yrs time ( they actully announced the shut down 2 yrs ago )
> 
> Liddell is the NSW version of Hazelwood. Was supposed to be closed 15yrs ago but had a major refit



It had a control system upgrade but the boiler tubes are still all stuffed.


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## wide eyed and legless (31/8/18)

Nullnvoid said:


> Few weeks I think? Not outrageously long.


Bastards! They must know I vote Liberal.


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## wide eyed and legless (16/10/18)

I may vote for Danny Boy next state election, if he gets in he is going to chip in 50% of the cost of batteries for those with solar, I have been saving my pennies to install the batteries in 2024 when I lose my 66 cents feed in tarrif (Thanks Kev) These labor leaders sure know how to spend other peoples money.


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## sp0rk (16/10/18)

koshari said:


> It had a control system upgrade but the boiler tubes are still all stuffed.


A few mates that are engineers there have told me some very frightening stories about the state of the plant there...


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## wide eyed and legless (10/12/18)

Never got my $50 off the Victorian government, I did try to vote for Danny Boy but I just couldn't, my wife did so our votes were cancelled out. Looking forward to my half price batteries, and I will increase my solar panels. I would just love to get off the grid altogether and get rid of the gas. Frackers.


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## Bushbear (11/12/18)

Just a reminder, the NSW government is still the major (51%) shareholder of the electricity retailers so they are in a position to lower prices if they really wanted to, but that would reduce their dividends.

The biggest problem with the electricity network is the power generation companies sell the power at the maximum demand (Whole amount sold at highest demand point) yet the retailers must sell at Kilowatt hours (actual power used). So one hour on a stinking hot day can cost twice as much money from the generators but is still restrained to actual power consumed from the distribution distributers causing them to inflate the price to cover.

Then you have the unmentioned problems associated with solar on houses as the distribution network is laid out like a large house with the fuses in the Zone substations protecting the distibutors (light and power circuits).
If we keep adding more and more solar units feeding back into the grid, all the protection in zone substation (fuses) start to not work as designed due to fault currents being fed from houses as well as from the network .
Thats just ust my rant. now for a couple of beers.


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## wide eyed and legless (12/12/18)

I have often thought about, if all house


Bushbear said:


> Just a reminder, the NSW government is still the major (51%) shareholder of the electricity retailers so they are in a position to lower prices if they really wanted to, but that would reduce their dividends.
> 
> The biggest problem with the electricity network is the power generation companies sell the power at the maximum demand (Whole amount sold at highest demand point) yet the retailers must sell at Kilowatt hours (actual power used). So one hour on a stinking hot day can cost twice as much money from the generators but is still restrained to actual power consumed from the distribution distributers causing them to inflate the price to cover.
> 
> ...


Surely all that must be covered? When Little Billy Shorten gets in he is going to increase the solar energy use, I would hope that the grid could handle all the extra power going in, it must be monitored from somewhere, plus the fact that there are power stations which are no longer with us, someones got to take up the slack.


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