# The Great Pear Cider Experiment



## Brewing_Brad (16/3/11)

G'day all,

As I mentioned [post="746089"]previously[/post], I was recently given a whole tree's worth of pears to do "something" with, and so the Great Pear Cider Experiement has begun. 

After much f*cking around with a pissy little juice - that I had to empty after every 4th or 5th pear - I ended up collecting around 20L of sweet pear juice. The experimental part is that's all I did. I'm letting the natural yeasts do the fermenting and crossing my fingers it doesn't end up tasting like dog turds covered in vomit...not that I've actually tasted dog turds covered in vomit, nor do I ever want to, but the point is, I'm hoping it turns out drinkable.

I was expecting a fairly slow start to the fermentation, but after 12 hours the airlock is bubbling away slowly, but rather steadily, so it's looking promising. I took a gravity reading at the start and it came out at 1.050 and I'll stop it around 1.010 to retain some of its sweetness.

If the juice is anything to go by, it's going to be a rather tasty drop! Even my other half, who normally hates pears, actually digs the taste of these ones. I'm hoping the finished product retains some of the flavour and sweetness.

Anyway, I'll keep you posted on the outcome.

Cheers
Brad


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## Gormand (16/3/11)

How are you stopping the fermentation? Are you just chilling it and then kegging?
Just curious as I recently did an apple cider and it came out overly dry and tasteless so its likely going to be tipped to make room for my next brew.


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## Brewing_Brad (16/3/11)

Gormand said:


> How are you stopping the fermentation? Are you just chilling it and then kegging?
> Just curious as I recently did an apple cider and it came out overly dry and tasteless so its likely going to be tipped to make room for my next brew.



I'll be bottling so I was thinking of using campden tablets. From what I understand it won't kill off the yeast completely, so I should still have a few active to carbonate a few of the bottles (I'm going to try a still and a sparkling version).


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## pimpsqueak (16/3/11)

Brewing_Brad said:


> I'll be bottling so I was thinking of using campden tablets. From what I understand it won't kill off the yeast completely, so I should still have a few active to carbonate a few of the bottles (I'm going to try a still and a sparkling version).



I'm having a bash at a cider soon and would also like to stop it around 1010. What sort of dosage will you use to stop it?


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## seemax (16/3/11)

Pasteurising will pretty much kill all the yeast and stop fermentation.

It's been discussed before on the forums.... heat to 71C (in bulk or once bottled) for a short period and it's bye bye yeasties. You can then back sweeten if desired without fear of bottle bombs.


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## stef (16/3/11)

I am by no means an authority on the subject, but i would have thought using campden tablets then trying to carbonate through fermentation is probably not your best bet? I'd have thought it would be too hard to get the dosage perfect- not enough and you'll have bottle bombs, too much and you'll have flat cider. Plus i imagine the amount of priming sugar needed could be tricky to work out too, depending on the amount of yeast left after the campden...

If i was you, i would bottle in glass, apart from 1 or 2 in PET- use the PET as a carbonation gauge and when you are happy with the level of carb in the PET, pastuerise the glass bottles...

Or do what i do and back sweeten once fermentation is complete- not as authentic but heaps easier with less stuffing around. I just add lactose/artificial sweetener as i rack to priming bucket.

Edit: Beaten by seemax


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## Brewing_Brad (16/3/11)

Thanks for the feed back guys. I'll do some reading on both pasteurising and backsweetening. The last thing I want is bottle bombs!

Cheers
BRad


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## stuchambers (16/3/11)

The pears contain complex sugars ( un-fermentable ) and it should naturally retain some sweetness. This is the reason people add pear juice when they make apple cider it stops it from becoming too dry. 
Am very happy to be correct but this is my understanding of things.

Cheers Stu


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## Greg.L (16/3/11)

Pears can have a fair bit of sorbitol, a non fermenting sugar, so it's hard to predict the hydrometer reading when finished. You can't tell how much sorbitol there will be. Have you checked the pH? Sometimes pears can be above 4.0, so camden tablets don't have much effect.

Greg


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## pimpsqueak (16/3/11)

Hmm. Might give pasteurising a go before I resort to dumping chemicals into it. Should probably invest in a bulletproof vest and impact visor first though... can't imagine it's much fun being blasted with not only broken glass but scalding cider too :excl:

*goes hunting for pasteurising link...*


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## Brewing_Brad (16/3/11)

pimpsqueak said:


> Hmm. Might give pasteurising a go before I resort to dumping chemicals into it. Should probably invest in a bulletproof vest and impact visor first though... can't imagine it's much fun being blasted with not only broken glass but scalding cider too :excl:
> 
> *goes hunting for pasteurising link...*



Feck it, I think I might just let the sucker ferment out. If pears have unfermentable sugars, as Stu suggests, then it's gonna be sweet enough and I won't risk being scalded and flayed alive by high velocity glass shards and boiling cider. 

Hey, there's an idea for some t-shirts: AussieHomeBrewer Saved My Life

Cheers again guys!
Brad


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## Gormand (16/3/11)

Brewing_Brad said:


> Feck it, I think I might just let the sucker ferment out. If pears have unfermentable sugars, as Stu suggests, then it's gonna be sweet enough and I won't risk being scalded and flayed alive by high velocity glass shards and boiling cider.
> 
> Hey, there's an idea for some t-shirts: AussieHomeBrewer Saved My Life
> 
> ...



Ill be damned if that doesnt sound sensible. As long as the flavour survives you can always add sugar to your glass to cut the dryness if it ends up too dry. Or have some of the juice on standby and add some of that to the glass when you pour it. Should add some flavour and sweetness to it.


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## pimpsqueak (16/3/11)

Brewing_Brad said:


> I won't risk being scalded and flayed alive by high velocity glass shards and boiling cider.



Ok, I'll take one for the team this time and we'll compare results. Next time I get to back-sweeten and you take the glass to the face though. deal? :icon_cheers:


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## Xarb (16/3/11)

Yes using more pear juice will keep some sweetness. 

The first time I made cider it was something like this:
50% Apple juice
50% Apple and Pear juice
+ some LDME

It was good but a bit too "dry" for me. I like dry ciders but it tasted a bit... empty? so next I tried 100% Apple and Pear juice (and some LDME).

This one was much better! Still I'm not 100% happy with it so after reading this thread and finding that you can get 100% pear juice in tins I think I will do a pear juice/apple and pear juice combination next. 

Personally if I wanted to add sweetness to a cider I'd use lactose. Pasteurising while they are in bottles sounds _way_ too dangerous for me!


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## NickB (16/3/11)

Not to be pedantic, but an all pear 'cider' is actually a 'Perry' 

Cheers


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## Greg.L (16/3/11)

NickB said:


> Not to be pedantic, but an all pear 'cider' is actually a 'Perry'
> 
> Cheers



Well to be more pedantic, a perry is made from specific perry pear varieties, not from dessert pears.

Greg


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## NickB (16/3/11)

Touch.

So is a non-Perry Pear drink a Pear Cider then, or is there a better term to use, like 'Perry'


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## Greg.L (16/3/11)

Really, you can call it whatever you want, pear cider is fine, but I would wait till he has a drinkable drink to worry about names.

Greg


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## Xarb (17/3/11)

Seeing as I use pear and apple juice I call it pelapple cider. B)


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## pimpsqueak (17/3/11)

Got a feeling I'm going to be calling mine Crapple Juice. :huh:


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## Brewing_Brad (17/3/11)

pimpsqueak said:


> Ok, I'll take one for the team this time and we'll compare results. Next time I get to back-sweeten and you take the glass to the face though. deal? :icon_cheers:


Let's drink on that.


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## Brewing_Brad (17/3/11)

Greg.L said:


> Really, you can call it whatever you want, pear cider is fine, but I would wait till he has a drinkable drink to worry about names.
> 
> Greg


I agree, and knowing my luck I'll end up calling it shit and chuckin' it! But I hope not


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## SuiCIDER (23/3/11)

Wild yeast starts tasting pretty crappy if you let it get any drier than around 1.020, I'd stop it around there to avoid the off flavours.


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## drsmurto (23/3/11)

Greg.L said:


> Well to be more pedantic, a perry is made from specific perry pear varieties, not from dessert pears.
> 
> Greg



So using apples other than specific cider apple varieties produces what then?


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## Greg.L (24/3/11)

SuiCIDER said:


> Wild yeast starts tasting pretty crappy if you let it get any drier than around 1.020, I'd stop it around there to avoid the off flavours.



Traditional perry is always made with wild yeast and always fermented dry, with residual sweetness provided by the unfermented sorbitol. Wild yeast fermentations to dry are very common in wine, cider and perry. Most people believe the flavour is better. Any problems are usually at the start when weakly fermenting yeasts predominate.

Greg


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## Greg.L (24/3/11)

DrSmurto said:


> So using apples other than specific cider apple varieties produces what then?



The whole naming thing isn't very important, I was just replying to the previous post. Personally I wouldn't use the name perry unless there were some perry pears used, but others can do as they see fit. The important thing is whether you make a good drink.

Greg


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## Brewing_Brad (28/3/11)

Hey folks,

I promised you an update, and an update I shall give you.

I let it ferment all the way out and ended up with a FG of 1.007 (OG was 1.054). 

Now, I'm not all that good at giving descriptions, but I'll do my best: there's a slight sour...almost rotten pear smell with a hint of yeastiness to it, but not not offensive. I guess you could say it smells like a pear that's just started to rot at the bottome of the tree, which I suppose, all things considered, that's exactly what it is.

There is a sourness to the taste as well and it's not overly peary - well, nothing like the pears tasted like when they went it, in fact, I'm picking up a hint of Ganny Smith apple in there, if I'm not mistaken. 

Overall, it's not too bad, but I think I will backsweeten it with some pear juice (there might be a few left on the tree) and let it age and mellow for a month or two to see what it'll become.

Stay tuned.
Brad


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## Greg.L (28/3/11)

That's a fairly high final gravity, it may not have finished completely yet or it may be sorbitol. The yeasty smell is normal, it should clear. The sour and grannysmith flavours are probably malic acid, you could do a mlf to get rid of it but that may not leave much flavour. If you don't want MLF add some camden tablets and keep cool. (the cider that is). You need to keep air right away from it to age it, either a glass demijohn or get it bottled or kegged in a couple of weeks. If you add juice it will just referment unless you pasteurise after bottling.

Greg


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## BjornJ (28/3/11)

I did a test run of cider using 2 litres of apple and a can (850 ml) of pear juice, and the cider ended at FG 1.006.
The pear juice sure seems to up the FG,


thanks
Bjorn


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## Brewing_Brad (28/3/11)

Greg.L said:


> [snip]you could do a mlf to get rid of it but that may not leave much flavour. [/snip]



Sorry for being dumb, but what's an mlf? (I could look it up, but I'm half drunk and lazy )


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## Greg.L (29/3/11)

MLF is a bacterial fermentation that converts malic acid to lactic acid. Malic acid tastes sour, lactic doesn't, malic acid is the main acid in apples and pears. The mlf culture is expensive but it is common to get a wild mlf in cider that is high pH and above 15C. Camden tablets will prevent MLF. I pitch a mlf in all my ciders because I like a reliable process and the cider is much more drinkable after (I leave mine unsweetened). If you intend sweetening, which is difficult, you should avoid MLF because the sugar balances the acid.

Pears are already low acid so I don't know about allowing a mlf, but if you don't like that sour, green apple flavour mlf will get rid of it.

Greg


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## pimpsqueak (30/3/11)

Well, I bottled 14 stubbies at SG 1.012, which doesn't sound like much but the remainder wound down to 1.004 (and was still very slowly bubbling away).
I used coopers carb drops in all the bottles and the ones at 1.004 were back sweetened in two batches. One batch used a liquid artificial sweetener and the other used Stevia. (both off the shelf from Woolworths). Basically, I couldn't be arsed using lactose in the end.

So I opened a bottle of the 1.012 today and it was fairly well carbed. A bit dry and sour but not unpleasant. If I add a bit of juice to it I reckon it will be pretty damn tasty.
I'll wait for a few more days and crack another bottle. If it's carbed enough I will then embark on Operation: Glass-in-the-face.


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