# Recipe Db Quality Vs Experimental



## Kleiny (15/4/11)

Posted this Q in Recipes and Ingredients as it didnt really fit under discussion of a particular recipe.

Mods move where ever is appropriate.

I believe the Recipe DB should be used for seasoned tried recipes you wish to share with fellow brewers. If you want to use it as a recipe development tool use Beersmith or similar product.

There seems to be an ever amounting number of recipes just made out of no where. Some i doubt have even been made.

I like to look for good recipe examples in the DB before deciding on a new recipe and it is hard to sometimes find anything along the lines of; "Heres a recipe that i make all the time and it turns out great".

The stars work but not many get reviewed, we might just need a bit of self discipline on what recipes we post.

There may be conflicting views voice your opinion/thoughts.

Kleiny


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## QldKev (15/4/11)

I agree. It used to have a lot of recipe's that won awards, or were asked about from a case swap or get together. Now lots of them are just crap thrown up there and it makes it hard if you want to check out for a recipe idea. I don't know how many times I've heard an author state they don't even make it that way themselves anymore as it was only revision 1.

Maybe everyone who has recipes in there could do a clean up if they have updated them.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (15/4/11)

+1 for this.

Plus a bit note up the top "if you use a recipe, vote for it" - I get PMs about one of my recipes, others have told me they are happy with how it turns out, but never vote for it. I don't mind helping anyone, but if it has stars/comments, then others can make their mind up whether they need to PM or not and why.

The thing that irritated me is someone posted an update on their own recipe in recipedb, and said "it was crap, sink fodder". Whereas my sink fodder recipes I would never consider putting on the recipedb, only my good ones.

Goomba


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## Crusty (15/4/11)

I agree as well.
I've tried several recipes from the DB that were pretty crap. I now have 15 solid tried & tested ones that I have ever so slightly altered to fit in with Beer Tools Pro software.
A cleanup is definately needed.


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## Lecterfan (15/4/11)

QldKev said:


> Maybe everyone who has recipes in there could do a clean up if they have updated them.




This.


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## neonmeate (15/4/11)

why not discuss a recipe with other people before you brew it? Then tinker, brew it and evaluate? what is the point of having a discussion thread on a beer that's already been perfected?


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## Pennywise (15/4/11)

I agree, whilst I don't think they all have to be "the best you've ever tried", I'd like to think that they'd be ones you have made and are good. Threads like "stlye of the week" or "WAYB" would be more suited for feedback on formulating recipes.
That said, what if I have only just started brewing decent beers and think, yeah, I'll throw that one in the DB, it's pretty good, but then 12 months later my brewing gets even better and said beer doesn't seem so good now, infact, it's shit, I just though it was good because it was way better than anything I've made before. Good beers are in the eye of the beholder, so it's kinda hard to regulate, even self regulate. 

Hope that makes sense


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## manticle (15/4/11)

I agree.

I've posted a few recipes in there. While they are not award winning (I'm not really a comp brewer) they have all been brewed and tasted before being added and I only add those I reckon have done well, not every one I've brewed. Most have at least been tasted and well received by brewers and non brewers alike in addition to myself.

I also try and update when I make changes or realise the original could be better.

It's a database - for feedback or discussion of a yet to be brewed recipe, it's easy enough to start a 'critique my recipe' thread or post in the relevant flavour of the week thread.

@ Pennywise - you can continually edit your recipe so if you think 12 months down the track that the recip looks awful then edit away. If it's really embarassing you can just delete it.


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## yum beer (15/4/11)

I think if more people voted on recipes it would help.
If you make a recipe from DB, vote on it when your done.
A whole heap of recipes with no vote ratings doesnt help anybody.
Maybe if a recipe on there is similar to something you make and know the quality of then a vote might be good.

main problem is you cant control who puts recipes up.


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## ekul (15/4/11)

I think you make a good point about adding stars to recipes that you like. I never do this but i'm going to start, if everyone does this then it will make it a lot easier to sort the fantastic recipes from the ones that are just good.

I think the experimetal recipes should just be put up in the recipes and ingredients forums, to see what people think.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (15/4/11)

Another column in the recipedb for feedback links.

Then add another topic in the forum for experimental, with recipedb slated for final only.

Goomba


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (15/4/11)

I also agree! I will never post a recipe in the DB if it hasn't been brewed yet!



QldKev said:


> Maybe everyone who has recipes in there could do a clean up if they have updated them.



Yes and No. The same malt and hops might be used in 2 different recipes, but I'm pretty sure different mash and hop schedules will make a different beer. both may be bloody crackers, but will be very different.



Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> "if you use a recipe, vote for it"



Vote for it, AND Comment on it! I have been guilty of finding something i like and not contributing to its thread, but it is something i no longer do.

EDIT: 15mins to write a post! I must be a bloody slow typer!


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## mckenry (15/4/11)

+ a pic of the beer.


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## Pennywise (15/4/11)

manticle said:


> @ Pennywise - you can continually edit your recipe so if you think 12 months down the track that the recip looks awful then edit away. If it's really embarassing you can just delete it.



Ahh ok, didn't know that. I just assumed it was like posts where you only get a certain amount of time to edit.

Being able to upload a pic of the beer is a great idea


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (15/4/11)

ekul said:


> I think the experimetal recipes should just be put up in the recipes and ingredients forums, to see what people think.



+1 Completely agree.


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (15/4/11)

mckenry said:


> + a pic of the beer.



+1 Will agree on this aswell!

P.S.:- no more +1-ing or agreeing now ok?


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## [email protected] (15/4/11)

The "what are you brewing now" thread is where any experimentation should go. Definately agree only tried and true beers should go in the DB. I also think the database needs to be subdivided into styles to make it easier to compare similar recipes. I never follow recipes exactly but try to look at a few in the same style and take bits and pieces from a few.


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## barls (15/4/11)

i think maybe a pull down box where it can be changed from experimental, made and bloody ripper by the uploader


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## Fodder (15/4/11)

Paxxy said:


> The "what are you brewing now" thread is where any experimentation should go. Definately agree only tried and true beers should go in the DB. *I also think the database needs to be subdivided into styles to make it easier to compare similar recipes.* I never follow recipes exactly but try to look at a few in the same style and take bits and pieces from a few.




There's a filter in the top right corner that allows you to select certain styles and also methods (all-grain, extract, K&K) :icon_cheers:


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## QldKev (15/4/11)

_WALLACE_ said:


> +1 Will agree on this aswell!
> 
> P.S.:- no more +1-ing or agreeing now ok?




+1 to no more +1'ing


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## [email protected] (15/4/11)

Fodder said:


> There's a filter in the top right corner that allows you to select certain styles and also methods (all-grain, extract, K&K) :icon_cheers:




Dopey me! I've been looking in the recipeDB forum all this time! That's much easier.


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## Nick JD (15/4/11)

I put the ones up there that I think others might like, because I liked them. I've had a few PMs regarding recipes and opintions on whether changes would work or not. I think the recipeDB isn't merely a place for award-winning beers, but nmore a place where you can share what you enjoyed.

I just put up a recipe that many people won't like, even though I thought it worth sharing. If you want me to delete it you can ram it up ya poopshoot. 

EDIT: I see someone just gave it 1 star.  :lol:


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## bradsbrew (15/4/11)

Just deleted 2 of my recipes. The remaining ones have been tested by fellow brews and or got a place at state or nationals. 

Also I dont think you can rate your own recipe? If you can that needs to be changed.

Cheers


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## matho (15/4/11)

bradsbrew said:


> Just deleted 2 of my recipes. The remaining ones have been tested by fellow brews and or got a place at state or nationals.
> 
> Also I dont think you can rate your own recipe? If you can that needs to be changed.
> 
> Cheers


 i just tried it on my one and only recipe and you can brad, its pretty effed up 

cheers matho


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## winkle (15/4/11)

QldKev said:


> +1 to no more +1'ing



ditto



Hmm, I should either update or cull one or two of mine. <_<

Edit: the recipe DB really needs an updated ingredients list!


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## manticle (15/4/11)

I haven't voted because I'm not sure what number three means. What's the option for 'recipes the user has confidence in because they've actually brewed them and tasted them"?


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## peas_and_corn (15/4/11)

Even a fantastic recipe can be brewed poorly, with poor results.


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## Milky11111 (15/4/11)

I think alot more people voting and reviewing would be a massive benefit to the DB. You could implement a system to try and boost participation though, instead of relying on posters goodwill and discipline.

A system that comes to mind is something like the one newgrounds.com (a pop culture game/portal site) uses. What's good about the review system there is that the more you review, get involved and are rated by others the heavier your opinion ways against people who use the system less.

Another key point to it is that if someone gives an unfair or rubbish review, other members can rate the review itself negative and this will flag it as "useless." For e.g. Mr.DumbAss Brewer gets DrSmurto's Golden Ale recipe, makes it incorrectly, doesn't sanitise and ends up drinking terrible infected nearly-as-bad-as-VB sink fodder. Since it isn't his fault  he 0/5 stars the beer and gives it a crap review. Other members then flag this as useless, voids it and the recipes rating is restored to what it should be.

This system doesn't rely on moderators (excluding implementation) either, but more on upstanding members who earn a say by being rated positively by his peers.

Food for thought anyway.

--Wayne

Edit: coz mi spellung iz gud.


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## Wolfy (15/4/11)

I agree, but unless you can work out some sort of review/moderation system, its not going to change.
How does one 'prove' that their recipe is good enough to be entered into the 'Elite Recipe DB'?
This is the inter-web and self-moderation is not something you should expect, no matter what rules, guidelines or suggestions are made, unless there is a strict moderation system/team in place, any-old-crap-recipe will continue to be entered.


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## felten (15/4/11)

I agree with Nick, just post up recipes that you've made before and you enjoyed. There doesn't have to be a medal criteria to make a beer enjoyable.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (15/4/11)

felten said:


> I agree with Nick, just post up recipes that you've made before and you enjoyed. There doesn't have to be a medal criteria to make a beer enjoyable.



Absolutely, but don't stick up recipes you haven't finished, tasted (and had others taste if applicable).

Anything I post is completed, tasted (and usually harshly critiqued by others).

Not medal stuff, necessarily, but at least made.

Goomba


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## DKS (15/4/11)

I would like to see more voting and commenting,photos can be put in the discussion section as more people have a go at a particular recipe. I reckon there would be quite a big difference shown in a pic.
Daz


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## warra48 (15/4/11)

I've only posted 3 recipes.
The first 2 I was really happy with, and were endorsed by others (not necessarily AHB members).
The 3rd I put up on the prompting of a fellow AHB member after he had tasted a bottle of my brew.

I wouldn't put up untried recipes, as I don't consider that of any assistance to anyone researching a recipe for a planned brew. I look at the database, and discount any recipes which I cannot established as having been brewed and tested as sound.


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## Silo Ted (15/4/11)

This is a great topic, and one I have thought about starting myself. Too often I have seen recipes posted, and backtracking through the originating member's posts, notice that they have very little experience to start with. Worse still, some people formulate a recipe, think its great even before the wort has cooled, then decide to post it. For all we know, it could have been shithouse, even to the brewer's taste, a couple of months later when it was ready for drinking. Doubtful they would think to go back and delete it. 

Some defined categories would be good, and a function where we could filter options. Nothing too complicated, maybe five in all. 

*Awarded* - Any brew that has scored a 1st, 2nd, 3rd or HC in an officially, BJCP judged state or national comp. With a box for a blurb so the author can tell us where it placed, and in which comp. Not that anyone would flaunt the system, but it can always be verified at http://www.aabc.org.au/ records. 

*Peer Reviewed* - Any brew that has been a part of the many case swaps, cube exchanges, christmas lotteries etc that has gone out to dozens of people, and gets a four-star or more peer rating from those who wish to vote. For this to work, there might need to be a voting system associated with future swap threads. 

*Tried & Trusted* - Something like Smurto's GA that hundreds of people rave about, or even Neil's Centenarillo that has a big fan-base. It doesn't have to have won any awards, but repeated by many brewers. Maybe once a recipe hits 20 'five star' ratings, it can be moved into this category. 

*Old Faithful* - Brews that Joe Bloggs has been brewing for years, might not have shared with other members, but experience tells him that it's a top drop. 

*Experimental* - All the other crap that doesn't fit anywhere else. 

Then a simple sorting system, where someone could go in and select options, not unlike the theory in Excel where you can sort by Column A, then by B, then by C. Let's Say "All Grain", then "Porter" then "Awarded". 

Sound good ? Who's going to help develop it ? It's not within my expertise, but I would happily co-moderate any new submissions - which should probably be reviewed before they are made public, and the author contacted for more information if required. 

I really hope this thread gets taken seriously by the administrators, because as Australia's premier brewer's forum, the recipe DB should really shine as a powerful tool.


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## Silo Ted (15/4/11)

felten said:


> I agree with Nick, just post up recipes that you've made before and you enjoyed. There doesn't have to be a medal criteria to make a beer enjoyable.



Yea, sorry mate, I'm with Kev on this one. 

For me, I haven't posted any recipes, because I haven't repeated many, even the ones that would fall into the "Awarded" category. The DB can still be filled with as much shit as you like, but the option to filter out categories is a must.


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## Bada Bing Brewery (15/4/11)

I like Silo's idea of using silo's ........ makes sense.
I make it a point to rate any brew I try from the database and generally also pm the OP. 
Cheers
BBB


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## Nick JD (15/4/11)

Milky11111 said:


> I think alot more people voting and reviewing would be a massive benefit to the DB. You could implement a system to try and boost participation though, instead of relying on posters goodwill and discipline.
> 
> A system that comes to mind is something like the one newgrounds.com (a pop culture game/portal site) uses. What's good about the review system there is that the more you review, get involved and are rated by others the heavier your opinion ways against people who use the system less.
> 
> ...



I posted a recipe of mine that I think is my best effort at making something that both appeals to the Megaswill drinker, but shows them just what can be achieved with a higher mash temperature and better use of hops for more flavour and aroma. 

And it already has been rated at 1 star. Poor form from a sad fucker who is wrecking a working system by using it to voice a petty grievance I fear.


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## QldKev (15/4/11)

Bada Bing Brewery said:


> I like Silo's idea of using silo's ........ makes sense.
> I make it a point to rate any brew I try from the database and generally also pm the OP.
> Cheers
> BBB




What rating system do you use? I use
1. crap
2. boring
3. ok
4. not bad
5. award wining brew (even if has not won an award)

From what I gather some ppl think getting a rating is great, so a 1 is someone saying they like it.


QldKev


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## Bada Bing Brewery (15/4/11)

QldKev said:


> What rating system do you use? I use
> 1. crap
> 2. boring
> 3. ok
> ...



Great example of a likert scale there Kev (1-5) - maybe the mods should explicitly state that on the rating box. I've only done winners so far so i've dished out 4's and 5's ....
Cheers
BBB


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## haysie (15/4/11)

Dont use it simply for all the reasons others have posted... missing ingredients, ratings, no brewlog etc etc. What ever happened to the big overhaul the DB was going to get via the How to improve AHB thread? Hindsight it was a thread full of piss n wind.


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## Silo Ted (15/4/11)

QldKev said:


> What rating system do you use? I use
> 1. crap
> 2. boring
> 3. ok
> ...



Badabing was either commenting on one of two things: 

1. That my ideas on this subject are self supported, and I have a big ego
2. Something to do with FORTRAN programming language 

Kev, on the ratings thing, this is where it needs to be clever. One five-star rating wont cut it. 20 five star ratings (from different IP addresses) speaks greater volumes, and is sort of dependable in the category in which it's placed. I refer again to Neil's Centenarillo, and while I haven't brewed it, so many people seem to love it, and that should be a contender for a category other than 'Experimental"

Your point 5. is just confusing


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## Silo Ted (15/4/11)

GUYS - Let's not derail a very important thread.


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## QldKev (15/4/11)

Silo Ted said:


> <<snip>>
> 
> Your point 5. is just confusing




What I was trying to say is 'the beer is excellent'. Even if it has never won an actual award, it is by the persons opinion an award wining beer.

QldKev


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## unrealeous (15/4/11)

The rating system is anonymous which is a problem. If it wasn't then people would be more sincere in their ratings.


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## QldKev (15/4/11)

Bada Bing Brewery said:


> Great example of a likert scale there Kev (1-5) - maybe the mods should explicitly state that on the rating box. I've only done winners so far so i've dished out 4's and 5's ....
> Cheers
> BBB



Yep, that's they way see the scale. Dr Suurto's JSGA was the first to get a 5 from me :chug: 

A few good points out there about trying to get to a decent recipe DB with good user ratings.


QldKev


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## felten (15/4/11)

Lets face it, this thread is pretty pointless other than possibly deterring people from posting non-brewed recipes. There is never going to be any actual clean up or moderation on the recipeDB.


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## Milky11111 (15/4/11)

The personal bickering in this thread is just detrimental to it's cause. Maybe take the dick measuring to another place?


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## haysie (15/4/11)

felten said:


> Lets face it, this thread is pretty pointless other than possibly deterring people from posting non-brewed recipes. There is never going to be any actual clean up or moderation on the recipeDB.



A real post


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## Silo Ted (15/4/11)

felten said:


> Lets face it, this thread is pretty pointless other than possibly deterring people from posting non-brewed recipes. There is never going to be any actual clean up or moderation on the recipeDB.



I agree that there should be more active development from the owners of the AHB business, but we should at least hope that something might one day get acted upon. 




Milky11111 said:


> The personal bickering in this thread is just detrimental to it's cause. Maybe take the dick measuring to another place?



For sure. Nick & Kev, there's plenty of threads for you to rip each other's guts out, but it would be nice to keep this one on track, hey ? For the rest of us ? Your words impact all of us, not just your intended abusee. 

Would it be too much to ask both of you to self moderate the last few posts ? The 'delete' button is your friend.


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## Nick JD (15/4/11)

Silo Ted said:


> Would it be too much to ask both of you to self moderate the last few posts ? The 'delete' button is your friend.



Righto.


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## Silo Ted (15/4/11)

Nick JD said:


> Oh, and I gave everyone's recipes 5 stars since you can rate a recipe just if I feel like it.



That's just as much abusing the system as the person who devalued your entries.


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## Nick JD (15/4/11)

Silo Ted said:


> That's just as much abusing the system as the person who devalued your entries.



Exactly. I guess I need to make the point. I just went though and saw that I have 31 recipes on there. Now even I didn't know that - *but Kev did.* Read his previous posts.

He bothered to go though and 1 star every one of my recipes? I've had some pretty good feedback on some of those recipes.

I mean - WTF? What kind of person does that? Is he 14 years old?

I think I need to take this up with the moderators.


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## Bada Bing Brewery (15/4/11)

Silo Ted said:


> Badabing was either commenting on one of two things:
> 
> 1. That my ideas on this subject are self supported, and I have a big ego
> 2. Something to do with FORTRAN programming language
> ...



Silo Ted
I was trying to say (clumsily) that your idea is great and should be implemented. No personal slur at all and if it came across that way my apologies. The likert scale remark is simply that the rating scale used is a likert scale - 1 thru 5. I was just making the point Kev was getting at - some people may think scoring a 1 is fantastically great and 5 shit. I do 1 = shit and 5 is great. They should make that explicit - still wont stop people maliciously scoring on personality rather than taste
Cheers
BBB


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## Silo Ted (15/4/11)

A big cheers should be given to the two members who have kindly deleted some of their threads. Now, to go back and edit out the comments I have quoted you both on  Will be done soon, then we can move ahead. 

Where were we, OK, the database. Bada Bing that's interesting. 1 'point' could be read as poor (to be read like one star) or as the best (such as "'First Place"). In this internet age, that's where a visual aid is a good thing, such as stars. No-one would confuse one star with being the worst rating on any given subject. Amazon and such use it, and they probably paid psychologists to work that out for them.


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## Superoo (15/4/11)

I agree with Barls,

A pull down box with experimental, tried and bloody ripper would be a nice guide alongside comments and scores etc.

I have just done my first self designed recipe for a mild APA, and its really nice, used home grown cascade hops, but I'll wait until I've tried it with pellets before posting in the database.

This thread makes me a bit hesitant to post now though, how are you supposed to know when the recipe is 'ready' for posting ? 

Comon sense says that you probably should try it at least say 3 times to confirm that its a good consistent recipe.


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## Bada Bing Brewery (15/4/11)

Silo Ted said:


> A big cheers should be given to the two members who have kindly deleted some of their threads. Now, to go back and edit out the comments I have quoted you both on  Will be done soon, then we can move ahead.
> 
> Where were we, OK, the database. Bada Bing that's interesting. 1 'point' could be read as poor (to be read like one star) or as the best (such as "'First Place"). In this internet age, that's where a visual aid is a good thing, such as stars. No-one would confuse one star with being the worst rating on any given subject. Amazon and such use it, and they probably paid psychologists to work that out for them.



SiloTed
No-one would confuse one star ....... famous last words ..... this is where I say "trust me I'm a psychologist". They do and regularly so the more explicit the better IMHO. You're idea is very good and shouldn't be that hard to implement. 
Cheers
BBB


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## QldKev (15/4/11)

Silo Ted said:


> A big cheers should be given to the two members who have kindly deleted some of their threads. Now, to go back and edit out the comments I have quoted you both on  Will be done soon, then we can move ahead.
> 
> Where were we, OK, the database. Bada Bing that's interesting. 1 'point' could be read as poor (to be read like one star) or as the best (such as "'First Place"). In this internet age, that's where a visual aid is a good thing, such as stars. No-one would confuse one star with being the worst rating on any given subject. Amazon and such use it, and they probably paid psychologists to work that out for them.




I guess my point on the ratings is some users may take a 1 star as being, "I scored 1/5" as opposed to "crap". No stating anyone's given recipe. 
Also there is no rule to state if the rating is based on what you have read in the recipe and your opinion of it, or what you have brewed and am providing feedback upon based on either a personal or group response. 

That is why I used to like how the way the db was more before. It was someone / many people asked about a recipe that either won an award or was handed out at a gathering. Then you would put it up for everyone to see. 

I'm sitting fairly strong on this, because now you can search for a given recipe clone and find extreme variations. Recently I wanted a kilkenny recipe and when you look in the recipe DB the variation on recipe leaves you no real confidence in what you read. 

QldKev


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## Superoo (15/4/11)

unrealeous said:


> The rating system is anonymous which is a problem. If it wasn't then people would be more sincere in their ratings.




It would be a positive move I reckon to change the 'anonymous' status of anyone rating other forum members recipes.

We also all need to consider before rating a recipe, that its maybe going to be slightly different on different brew rigs, and things such as cleanliness and temp control etc etc etc etc come into play in a major way here.

Just my 2c


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## QldKev (15/4/11)

Superoo said:


> I agree with Barls,
> 
> A pull down box with experimental, tried and bloody ripper would be a nice guide alongside comments and scores etc.
> 
> ...



I've been experimenting with a few brews for a MIDAPA, mainly using late Cascade. I'm drinking the one know as MIDAPA2 tonight. It's pretty good beer, but still no what I would rate as a stand out brew worth publishing. AndrewQld mentioned I should enter my MIDAPA into a comp, but I still want to tweak it; then once I think I have nailed it and make it consistent I will put it in the recipeDB.

QldKev


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## ekul (15/4/11)

Nick JD- From my count you only have 7 recipes, and only some of them have one star. The xxxx bitter one doesn't seem to be working either, it doesn't list any ingredients.

Maybe some of the edited posts have made me miss something?

Edit- now the xxxx recipe isn't even there and you have 5 recipes... are you deleting them or something?


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## Nick JD (15/4/11)

ekul said:


> Nick JD- From my count you only have 7 recipes, and only some of them have one star. The xxxx bitter one doesn't seem to be working either, it doesn't list any ingredients.
> 
> Maybe some of the edited posts have made me miss something?



I'm deleting all of them. Some fuckwit gave them all 1 star. I worked hard on getting some of them to the point where I was really proud of them and worthy of sharing, yet they all look like the worst beers on the DB. So I'm taking them all off.


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## The Giant (15/4/11)

As a newbie brewer I must admit that I have trawled through the DB several times. My biggest problem is you never know how good anything is because people dont vote or leave comments

One suggestion to improve the process might be to have the ability to leave comments and reviews under the actual posted recipe? Also a clearer voting scale? If its all under the one post its easy to see everything related to that recipe. I find it annoying having the recipe and then having to go to another link to view all the comments.

Also I think some recipes need to have clearer instructions. It appears that the way the DB is set up doesnt allow people to select the right ingredients or list the correct steps because you have the recipe stating certain ingredients but then the person writes different ingredients underneath and some instructions are very unclear, well at least for a new brewer.

Cheers
Steve


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## haysie (15/4/11)

Nick JD said:


> I'm deleting all of them. Some fuckwit gave them all 1 star. I worked hard on getting some of them to the point where I was really proud of them and worthy of sharing, yet they all look like the worst beers on the DB. So I'm taking them all off.



Bookmarking this one! :lol: :lol: Dummy Spit>>>>>>> PRICELESS


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## Nick JD (15/4/11)

haysie said:


> Bookmarking this one! :lol: :lol: Dummy Spit>>>>>>> PRICELESS



Yeah, you're right.


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## ekul (15/4/11)

Nick JD said:


> I'm deleting all of them. Some fuckwit gave them all 1 star. I worked hard on getting some of them to the point where I was really proud of them and worthy of sharing, yet they all look like the worst beers on the DB. So I'm taking them all off.



They didn't all have one star, maybe some people tried them and didn't like the recipe? Doesn't necessarily make these people fuckwits, just a difference in opinion. I know i've tried recipes off the database and not entirely liked them (mainly extract), never thought before to leave feedback though, on good or bad recipes.

This is why it would be good for more people to rate recipes, so that a better average can be taken. I'm guilty of not voting myself, but will start doing it. I've rated one recipe so far today, and when i have time i will go through and rate the other recipes i've tried and liked.


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## Nick JD (15/4/11)

ekul said:


> They didn't all have one star,



As I went though and deleted them every one had 1 star. Someone must have taken ages to click through every one.


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## ekul (15/4/11)

When i was looking at them there was 7 and some of them were not rated at all.


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## Effect (15/4/11)

I've done 75 brews in my brewing life and have only put 3 recipes in the database. Always have brewed and drunk them first and have had others taste them before posting.

I like it that the database is open to everyone to post whatever they like, but it would be nice to have something other than a star rating system going. I have seen several recipes from experienced brewers that have no star rating at all, yet their recipe is brilliant and sometimes better than the recipes with a few ratings that are on the first page (sorted by rating).

If there was some way to 'tag' a recipe as a great example of a certain style etc that would be great. It would also be awesome if those recipes would be then linked into the opening post of the flavour of the week threads, e.g. a wicked pilsner recipe in the database that is a perfect representation of the style could then be linked to the pilsner SOTW thread.

Also an option of tagging a recipe as award winning etc allowing us to not only sort the recipe database by ratings but also by award winning recipes.

Cheers
Phil


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (15/4/11)

I've put 4 on there, against many different recipes. 

I only put on the ones that I (and others) thought were genuinely fantastic. The reason I didn't enter them into the QABC last year is that I gave away too many bottles, kids got sick and just didn't get the time to get down to entering them. I was genuinely confident in them, and I'm not normally one to blow my own trumpet.

I've had others PM me, make the beer, given them advice and they've given me really good feedback, but I've never had a recipe rated. Hell, I think I'd like a bad rating + some feedback - I think it would be fantastic to help me make better beer. I'm not too precious if someone said "I've given it 1 star, it has x, y, z wrong, a, b are right" - I actually genuinely value that sort of feedback.

Goomba


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## Silo Ted (15/4/11)

QldKev said:


> That is why I used to like how the way the db was more before. It was someone / many people asked about a recipe that either won an award or was handed out at a gathering. Then you would put it up for everyone to see.





QldKev said:


> I'm sitting fairly strong on this




Youre a 6 year member, so I dont know what the 'before' was like that you speak of. Ultimately if it were up to me, I would love to see a recipe DB with ONLY Australian comp placing brews. That's what I would refer to if I was looking for inspiration. So in that we agree. 

But theres going to be a lot of undiscovered gems out there too, and I think they have their place in a DB. There just needs to be better filtering options, so the end user can pick and choose as they please. 



Superoo said:


> It would be a positive move I reckon to change the 'anonymous' status of anyone rating other forum members recipes.



******* Oath. Even with a 100-character comment, so a recipe tail might read like this: 
_*
**** by QldKev: A good session beer, but NS is too girly for my taste
** by Nick JD: This recipe was gay. Good head retention from the cara though
*** by Joe Bloggs: Pretty Good, almost like VB but not as good
***** by Silo Ted: This beer is great. Will be my house beer for months to come

OVERALL RATING (from FOUR reviews): 3.5 Stars.* _


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## jasonharley (15/4/11)

Try my Strawberry Pilsner ... it is awesome !!!!


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## bconnery (15/4/11)

I think comp placing as a means of rating a beer is overrated. Sure an AABC placing beer is going to be very very good, but is is also going to be a beer that is a a very very good example of a style, and there is more to beer than that. I like styles, I think they are an essential part of competition and a great starting point, but they aren't everything. I've tasted some absolutely oustanding beers that have never seen a competition...

As to the role of the recipe db, I remember it as being more for recipes that you were happy with or that had been asked for, and when it comes right down to it I probably lean that way, but if people really want to put their name against a recipe they haven't made, or isn't that great, well I don't see it as my place to tell them they can't. 

I personally only put up recipes I have been very happy with, or that people have asked about, and I would definitely go back and adjust some of them perhaps, but as it stands I put them up there as I brewed them, and there are loads of recipes I've made that have never made it to the db...

I would definitely like people who have made a recipe and enjoyed it to rate it. I know for a fact that there are more people who have made some of my recipes than the votes they've received, and if all of the recipes, not just the big 5 (or x) that have become extremely well known, received votes in line with the regularity that they have been brewed then that would start to sort out which are "good" recipes, and which are experimental etc.


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## fergi (15/4/11)

i am new to AG brewing, and what i was after from the data base was a beer that had a few comments ,i wanted to know what either the brewer or someone that has made that particular recipe left a few notes on that particular beer,i found the star system didnt really give me any information other than someone liked it enough to give it a few stars,

five stars doesnt tell me its what i am after ,or 1 star doesnt tell me its not worth making

a comments section for a particular recipe is a better indication on what to expect from it .

fergi


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## Silo Ted (15/4/11)

fergi said:


> five stars doesnt tell me its what i am after ,or 1 star doesnt tell me its not worth making



Ok then , as a new AG'er, would you consider a recipe that scored 1st place in a State Comp to be worth considering if you were about to dive in and brew a new style for yourself ? Regardless of the stars?


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## felten (15/4/11)

The ingredients list has less to do with a beer winning an award than the actual skill of the brewer.


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## peaky (15/4/11)

Silo Ted said:


> This is a great topic, and one I have thought about starting myself. Too often I have seen recipes posted, and backtracking through the originating member's posts, notice that they have very little experience to start with. Worse still, some people formulate a recipe, think its great even before the wort has cooled, then decide to post it. For all we know, it could have been shithouse, even to the brewer's taste, a couple of months later when it was ready for drinking. Doubtful they would think to go back and delete it.
> 
> Some defined categories would be good, and a function where we could filter options. Nothing too complicated, maybe five in all.
> 
> ...



I reckon this is a great way to go. When I started brewing I didn't know a good recipe from a bad one. With the above format i could've gone straight to the 'tried and trusted' or whatever and got a good start. My brewing technique may have let the recipe down a bit but it'd be better than brewing a crap recipe with a crap technique. Even if this system isn't perfect, it's got to be much better than what's there atm. It'd make a good start.


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## bum (16/4/11)

I...um...this thread is terrible.

Do any of you guys even know what the internet is?

Fucken sooks, the lot of you. (Except Nick, funnily enough. Whoever did the down-voting is a dog - unless you actually brewed them and thought they were pus but you should add an equivalent comment in the discussion thread as well.)


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## Silo Ted (16/4/11)

peakydh said:


> I reckon this is a great way to go.



+1 :lol:


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## Silo Ted (16/4/11)

domix said:


> tl;dr


What a ******* dumb response. 

More so that you continue with a 150+ word reply

Not that I read it.. tl;dr ya know.


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## Hatchy (16/4/11)

This thread has almost convinced me to put my stout in the DB. I've brewed it twice with the same recipe & will brew it again next weekend. Another Adelaide brewer has brewed it although that was the original recipe that I've changed slightly & it's still in a cube. I've had good feedback from brewers & non brewers. I haven't entered it in any comps but will this year. It's probably worth putting in there.

As far as voting goes, I've never brewed a 10 minute IPA but have had several & loved them all. Am I only meant to vote for beers I've brewed or is it kosher to put 5 stars next to the 10 min IPA? It will almost certainly be the 1st beer through my plate chiller next weekend.


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## felten (16/4/11)

bum said:


> Do any of you guys even know what the internet is?


Is it a series of tubes?


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## bum (16/4/11)

felten said:


> Is it a series of tubes?


I thought it was made of cats?


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## felten (16/4/11)

we can have it both ways


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## bum (16/4/11)

Finally! This thread taught me something useful!


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## gregs (16/4/11)

Ive never posted a recipe in the data base because I feel its pointless, its just another recipe, so what. However if there was a request function, were by another member posted a request for a beer they thought would be worthy of a spot in the DB, and the site PMed you in regards to the request then the DB would have more meaning. Add to this a decent rating system and the DB would be worth sifting through. As it stands at the moment its just a dumping ground. 

The site administrators might want to start taking some notice of what their members want or feel may be an improvement, as their beloved AHB is now the junkyard of all forums.

gregs.


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## QldKev (16/4/11)

I think the key here is, although classification system of 
_Awarded 
Peer Reviewed 
Tried & Trusted 
Old Faithful 
Experimental _
would be great, we don't get any changes to this site due to the site owners being too busy elsewhere. It is their site and their choice.

That's why need need to try and implement something useful as users of this forum. As I mentioned earlier the majority of recipes a few years back were ones ppl had asked for and were then put into the DB for all to read. We have a forum to put up ideas to discuss and try and evolve them. If it becomes a 'stand out from the normal recipe' where people taste it and request it, then it gets added to the db.

As it stands today I know personally, although I still read through the recipeDB for ideas, I always end up google'ing it as there is soo much crap in the DB.

QldKev


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## Bribie G (16/4/11)

Some brewers don't use software (I didn't for a year or so), but I feel that a good replacement for the current DB would be a software sub forum with threads where brewers can post recipes in BS, BeerMate etc in much the same was as "What are you brewing", and attach the appropriate file to their post so other brewers can open it up in the appropriate program and have a go instantly, if they are interested. For further info they can PM the brewer concerned.


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## Greg Lawrence (16/4/11)

Just had a look at the recipe database. Found it a bit strange that every recipe on the 1st page had 5 stars. Dont know what the default sort order was, but it wasnt sorted by star rating as the 2nd page was all over the place.

I agree with BribieG about downloadable beersmith (or other software) files. Would be very handy, but until the rating system is cleaned up, you cant trust the stars so you dont know what you are going to get.


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## Kleiny (16/4/11)

Well thats started a bit of discussion

For the most i think a fair % of forum users are for the recipe db being used for recipes that have at least been tried and made with a good result for the brewer. It was never meant to be just for award winning recipes just *GOOD* recipes.

It would be good if we could have changeable category's from experimental to rippa. But thats up to the forum designer/owner.

There has been great discussion with the occasional attempt at a derail but for most i think valuable.

As for an outcome well thats up to those who control the forum.

Thanks everyone for a contribution and keep the ideas flowing. :icon_cheers: 

Kleiny


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## neonmeate (16/4/11)

why not think big. have an _enormous_ database where everyone can upload ALL their recipes AND keep a log of the progress and others can leave comments - linked to all the relevant discussions in threads etc - and then those with more views, more posts, more comments can be viewed at the top. the good stuff will filter through.

fact is the recipe DB here is pretty limited in what it can display. and most of the recipes are pretty crap to say the least. if there was some use in it for the brewer as a record, it would have better recipes. the more _open_ you make it the more useful it's going to be. the more you impose constraints (like only post a recipe if you've won comps with it) the less useful it's going to be.


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## bum (16/4/11)

neonmeate said:


> the more _open_ you make it the more useful it's going to be. the more you impose constraints (like only post a recipe if you've won comps with it) the less useful it's going to be.


Yep. And the point you've made twice about the discussion threads is key here - not that anyone seems remotely interested in seeing that.

Also, the rest of you need to have a think about how the site admin might go about just pulling new features out of their arses. You keep asking for all these things that aren't even possible to implement and them call them lazy or uncaring when they have to live in some real place instead of the fantasyland you inhabit.


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