# Carlton Draught



## houso (4/9/06)

Hi Guys,
New to the forum anyone got any ideas for Carlton Draught??
I am kegging it by the way.
Cheers


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## Adamt (4/9/06)

Well, uh.... um, couldn't even tell you what style guideline to run by for that. You can try a bit of honey to maybe get a bit of that sweetness but for the shuddering yeasty aftertaste, maybe some vegemite? Sorry, couldn't help myself!

Honestly, I'm not too sure, might be best to let us know what type of brewer you are, extract, partial or AG.

Welcome to the forums!


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## Ash in Perth (4/9/06)

this would be easier as a kit brew. simple lager kit, light malt extract and some (not too much) pride of ringwood finishing hops.

why not try and brew something with a little more flavour?


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## sluggerdog (5/9/06)

If your looking for something similar to a carlton draught you might want to try the ESB 3kg Australian Draught, it seems to rate pretty well and is super easy to make..

http://www.hbkitreviews.com/view-id-23-E.S...an-Draught.html


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## DrewCarey82 (5/9/06)

The ESB 3kg is an excellent draught beer, just a bit more flavoursome then the Carlton Draught.


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## tangent (5/9/06)

sparge with leftover water from doing the dishes h34r:


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## chimera (5/9/06)

Everybody has the mates who wont drink anything except for their VB or fourex. They will defend it with agressive loyalty and claim that nothing comes close. How they know this is not ascertainable as they violently refuse to drink anything else anyway, usually justified by saying it tastes like cats piss.. which raises yet more questions..

Apparently those ads on television with guys shovelling cement earning their hard earned thirst or eating late night lamb sandwiches have subliminal jedi mind manipulation tricks. But fear not HBs, it only works on the minds of the feeble

Where was I going with this.. oh yeah, making a carlton draught style brew.
I have been recommended and have tried on one occastion the beermakers draught kits. They were ok flavour & colour wise, but the bitterness was too subtle & aromatic to be quite in the 'aussie draught' style (dont look up BJCP).
A better recipe would be a basic lager/draught kit, plenty of POR hops, high dextrose content to keep it light, and most importantly, a decent yeast and controlled mid to low fermentation temperature.


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## devo (5/9/06)

tangent said:


> sparge with leftover water from doing the dishes h34r:




hahahaha


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## devo (5/9/06)

are you using kit or all grain method?


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## houso (5/9/06)

devo said:


> are you using kit or all grain method?




I am all new to this but at this stage it is a kit.
Any suggestions?


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## houso (5/9/06)

So do you think the esb would be the closest?? :chug: :chug:


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## Coodgee (5/9/06)

houso,
Probably best to ask at your local home brew shop. as you might have noticed, many members of this forum believe mass-produced Australian beers are not very nice, so here is not the best place to ask for advise on brewing such a beer. (don't worry about them though, they'll convert you in no time).

but in the mean time, ask your local home brew shop guy as he is very geared to your sort of tastes. he probably gets the same question 10 times a day and will probably be able to recommend something that will taste very close to Carlton Draught.

good luck with it and let us know who it turns out.


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## Tyred (5/9/06)

Found this on Grain & Grape.

Coopers Draught
500g Light Malt Extract
500g Dextrose.

Supposed to make something similar to Carlton Draught. Never tried it tho.

Picked up a can of Coopers Draught on the weekend (as it was marked down) and I'm planning on it + 500g light malt + 1kg brew enhancer 1 + 15g hallertau steeped for 10 mins. No idea what it will be like, but at the moment I'm still stubborn enough to drink my creations. 

Maybe I should follow some recipes to see how I go.


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## PistolPatch (5/9/06)

Howdy Houso!

Great to see you having a crack at brewing your own. You also have a huge head start in being able to keg. Couple of things...

Do a few kits first. I'd suggest doing a simple Coopers kit. The signs you see in home brew shops saying that this kit plus that hop will give you a Carlton Draught are frankly, dishonest. If you are happy with the results of the Coopers then you'll need to search no further and this would be great but don't spend months waiting around for a kit beer to improve. This is another bit of propaganda. On my last kit attempt, out of eight, only one got slightly better after 4 months. Basically, if you don't like the taste out of the fermenter, there is only a slight chance that you will like it 4 months later.

So see how two kits go.

If you do these and find you are unhappy with the result, don't waste any more of your time. Post back here. Ask for some help from brewers near where you live. Many other alternatives are available to brew a great beer such as fresh wort kits or all-grain brewing.

Brewing your favourite beer can often be a little harder than you expect, but as I said, you have a real head-start and, by joining AHB, you've pretty much guaranteed you will get there. First step to ensuring this is for you to have a really thorough read of the following two links...

Frequently Asked Questions for the New Brewer
Outline To Using The AHB Website

I think that these two links will really get you started on the right track.

All the best,
PP


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## lucas (5/9/06)

PistolPatch said:


> Basically, if you don't like the taste out of the fermenter, there is only a slight chance that you will like it 4 months later.


I wouldnt say thats strictly the case. one beer i brewed tasted like crap in the fermenter (it was in fact the reason i started my "my wort tastes like crap" thread), tasted very bitter/astringent in the bottles for the first few weeks, by 1 months it was tasting pretty balanced, another month later it was beginning to taste awfully sweet and then a few months later when i had the last bottle it was tasting very dry and watery (like a carlton cold). im sure that my changing tastes played a part in the perceived changes but im also certain that that batch changed a great deal over the 5-6 months it lasted.


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## PistolPatch (5/9/06)

I've been a shocker lately for keeping up to date on AHB Lucas but I think I remember a glimpse of your thread and I will look it up again. I suppose what I've learned is that beer shouldn't be that hard. I can brew now, 3 brilliant beers of varying alcohol levels (3-5%) that are drinkable at ten days after pitching the yeast, assuming you keg.

Waiting 4 months to see if a brew is OK drove me insane. Can't you tell - lol.

Seriously though, I think that in many ways for some brewers kits can be very false economy. For example, I'm in a 1 bedroom apartment. For me to store 4 months stock of beer is actually impossible.

I think that if a beginner can't brew at least one beer that is drinkable within a month then they will become frustrated and probably give up. Is this a fair comment?

I stand by my original comment, 'if you don't like the taste out of the fermenter, there is only a slight chance that you will like it 4 months later.'

There'll always be an exception and that is the only reason I used the word, 'slight.' To be honest though, there was never an exception for me. All my kits tasted like crap even before the yeast was pitched. I never liked any of my kit beers, one or two just became slightly less undrinkable.

I've also said many times, that each person has to be the judge of their own beers. If they like them then that all brewing problems are solved. If they don't, then they need to try other brewing methods.

I'd say if people don't have succes with kits that they try fresh wort kits. I've never tried them but I hear a lot of great reports.

If no luck with these then I strongly suggest they skip the partial and extract step. Too bloody complicated compared to all-grain which is the final step. Very easy but requires a little more capital outlay which you would easily have the money for if you stopped brewing methods that were not serving you well.

Have I said anything unfair here? Hope not!

Sorry Houso for the long post/side-track but if you have no luck with kits, then there's at least a heads-up that the guys here can help you acheive your goal of a beer that you enjoy. The good thing also is that whatever you brew, kit or otherwise, it will have far more care taken than a Carlton Draught and it won't give you a headache!!!

Cheers
PP


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## Uncle Fester (5/9/06)

Its a fair bet that whatever kit you do, (I would recommend Coopers, Morgans or Muntons) if you use a little malt with it, and ferment it in a suitable range (18-20 degrees if you are using the under-the-lid yeast), then you will immediately have a result that is preferred above Carlton Shaught.

I would rate all of my concoctions (with the exception of 1 experiment) as being far better drinking than standard megaswill.

You will soon be mixing malts, sourcing better yeast and trying to standardise brewing environments.

Then partials, and maybe the leap of faith into all grain.


In short, *YOU ARE DOOMED!*

Welcome to the forum.

Fester.


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## houso (6/9/06)

Thanks for all your help guys much appreciated!!
I tried my first brew last night which was the Morgans Draught basically i followed the exact instructions in fermenting then i filled the keg and in the fridge it went for 1 day then gassed it up at around 32 psi for 2 days and then drink away.I think ive done the right thing as it tastes pretty good just a little after taste is that just the beer or something i have done??
Thanks again guys for all your input!!


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## Bazza (6/9/06)

houso said:


> Thanks for all your help guys much appreciated!!
> I tried my first brew last night which was the Morgans Draught basically i followed the exact instructions in fermenting then i filled the keg and in the fridge it went for 1 day then gassed it up at around 32 psi for 2 days and then drink away.I think ive done the right thing as it tastes pretty good just a little after taste is that just the beer or something i have done??
> Thanks again guys for all your input!!



Houso
I brewed a Morgan's stockmans draught 2 years ago with 500g dextrose and 500g light DME with POR dry hopped and thought it was a reasonable interpretation of carlton draught. 
Try leaving the beer in the fridge for a couple of weeks though..
Bazza.


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## houso (6/9/06)

Uncle Fester said:


> Its a fair bet that whatever kit you do, (I would recommend Coopers, Morgans or Muntons) if you use a little malt with it, and ferment it in a suitable range (18-20 degrees if you are using the under-the-lid yeast), then you will immediately have a result that is preferred above Carlton Shaught.
> 
> I would rate all of my concoctions (with the exception of 1 experiment) as being far better drinking than standard megaswill.
> 
> ...



Thanks for that,
So do you mean follow the exact instructions and add extra malt is that right??
Which brand would be the best to use??
Thanks again


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## troywhite (6/9/06)

PistolPatch said:


> I stand by my original comment, 'if you don't like the taste out of the fermenter, there is only a slight chance that you will like it 4 months later.'



Huh, all my beers improve with age? Even in the keg in the fridge. In fact they are normally tasting superb just as you get that dreaded foamy swoosh from the keg emptying 

Seriously, I am the exact opposite. Every K&K and partial beer I have made has improved over time in the bottle.


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## Adamt (6/9/06)

I think what Pat is trying to describe is the taste out of the fermenter, minus all the green tastes you can assume will go in time...

The last few kits I've done I've tasted out the fermenter and gone "besides that horrid twang, it tastes alright, give it a few months and she'll be apples!", besides the "lagger" I made with 100% ale yeast, which I knew after tasting from the secondary, "ugggh this is gonna taste like pure shite". Not surprisingly I did, but the more unfortunate thing is I'm still drinking it h34r: 

Guess it's one of those things you pick up with more brewing?


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## Coodgee (6/9/06)

I don't know about this "green" flavour business. I guess over time, all strong flavours will go away, good or bad. if you have only good flavours coming out of the fermenter then the fresher the better. If you are having to wait for "green" flavours to disapear than there must be a problem in the brewing process. 

Of course this is for ales only, lagers take time.


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## Uncle Fester (6/9/06)

houso said:


> Uncle Fester said:
> 
> 
> > Its a fair bet that whatever kit you do, (I would recommend Coopers, Morgans or Muntons) if you use a little malt with it, and ferment it in a suitable range (18-20 degrees if you are using the under-the-lid yeast), then you will immediately have a result that is preferred above Carlton Shaught.
> ...




It entirely depends upon what you have access to.

If you can get to a HBS, then I would suggest 1 or 1.5Kg of LME (Liquid malt extract), and one of the coopers premium range (The bitter is quite good)

If you are getting your kits from Coles or Woolies, then I would suggest Coopers Brewblend #2, and maybe a bit of DME (Dry malt extract).


Even using the kit supplied yeast, I would try and keep fermentation temperature at about 18-20 degrees. If you fermented the last brew at 24+, then that would probably be the aftertaste you mentioned.

Get amongst it, search the forum as if it was google, and dont be afraid to experiment. Most experiments will have been attempted by someone here.


Cheers,

Festa.


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## PistolPatch (7/9/06)

Just had another read over what I've written and am happy with the advice.

Re beer improving with age, of course that is true.

What I'm saying though is, that if it tastes awful before you even pitch the yeast, then no amount of ageing is likely to get it up to an acceptable level. If it tastes semi-OK before pitching then ageing will most likely get it over the line.

My main point is that some brewers find that kits often produce a distinct taste (astringency on the back and sides of the tongue) that simply does not reduce significantly with ageing. For many people's palate, this 'twang' can be over-powering. Othe people love it.

The only kit I've tasted without the twang was a stout made by Old-Dog. I've had 1 extract beer as well without the twang.

If Houso's palate is sensitive to the twang then I'd hate to see him go through a long and timely process where he thinks he is making brewing errors. Many people give up brewing because of that flavour.

Finally Houso, get the freshest kit you can get. Check out the Use By dates from as many places you can and shop from there. The younger the kit the less twang.

Cheers
PP


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## houso (7/9/06)

PistolPatch said:


> Just had another read over what I've written and am happy with the advice.
> 
> Re beer improving with age, of course that is true.
> 
> ...



Thanks Guys,
I am pretty sure the brew is right as i followed the exact instructions i guess i just need to get used to it.
I just brewed a vb so we will see how that goes. :chug: :chug:


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## kitkat (11/9/06)

quickly, another plug for http://www.hbkitreviews.com.

It'll both give you an idea of comments on kit quality (for example the malt shovel kits are sometimes rated quite low even for the extra price), and how people made the kits (for example adding hops to secondary, making a hop tea, various mixes of dried/liquid malt extract, etc.), which will in turn give you ideas 

I'll have to join most ppl here though, don't limit your brewing to VB and Draught, they're OK beers at the pub, but you can do better with some effort.


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## houso (13/9/06)

Thanks Guys,
I placed the fermenter inside the house with heater on and away she went again


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