# Morgan's Blue Mountain Lager Question



## solidghost (15/4/08)

I had justed brewed my morgan's blue mountain lager with lager malt extract. I don't know why but the wort looks very dark in colour. In fact, it looks darker than my australian pale ale, which is surprising because I had thought that the lager will be lighter than a pale ale.







I was wondering whether this is the problem with the morgan's kit or was it something else.


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## matti (15/4/08)

Concentrated malts give a darker colour generally.
If you say it darker then the pale ale malt it could be that the last can is a wee bit old.
Malt goes darker with age.


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## Fatgodzilla (15/4/08)

matti said:


> Concentrated malts give a darker colour generally.
> If you say it darker then the pale ale malt it could be that the last can is a wee bit old.
> Malt goes darker with age.



"Lager" has more to do with the yeast used and the cold conditioning process involved than the colour of the wort. Don't think cos Fosters Lager is pale that all lagers should be pale. Otherwise we wouldn't have czech dark lagers. And I'm told Tooheys Old is fermented with a lager yeast.

Morgans BML is a darker colour malt that settles out well in the fermentation. My only complaints is that I found its a cloying flavour soon after bottling that need several months of good cool bottle conditioning to overcome.


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## microbe (15/4/08)

I've always found that product dark for a supposed 'lager'. However it's one of my favourite and most repeated kits.

Aesthetics is over-rated. 

Cheers,

microbe


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## solidghost (15/4/08)

Thanks guys. I had always thought that this lager would be much golden then black. The pictures they show seems to indicate it as well.


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## DKS (18/4/08)

microbe said:


> I've always found that product dark for a supposed 'lager'. However it's one of my favourite and most repeated kits.
> 
> Aesthetics is over-rated.
> 
> ...



Hi microbe, I made up a Blue Mt lager last week end. I used the supplied yeast, (type unknown), and added dry malt & powdered corn syrup. I havent heard a bad report yet on any Blue Mt recipe.Sounds like youve done a few Mind passing on your best?


Daz


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## Daawl (18/4/08)

DKS the yeast with all morgans kits is the good old 514.

My fave blue mountains is simply mix with the brewcraft #40 australian lager converter.

I have just put one down with a #62 Czech converter. Ment to be good, time will tell.

I use s23 for both, for a better/true lager yeast

Daawl


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## DKS (18/4/08)

Daawl said:


> DKS the yeast with all morgans kits is the good old 514.
> 
> My fave blue mountains is simply mix with the brewcraft #40 australian lager converter.
> 
> ...



Good one, as i said i havent heard of a bad one yet, good luck with it.
The s23 is that the saflager? Ive been tryin to find a list of what product codes are what yeasts but its blood from a stone stuff. They ( Coopers Morgans etc etc)dont want to give too much away do they?
Any idea where to find out?

Thanks
Daz


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## sponge (18/4/08)

That'll give you a fair idea on all the "Saf....." yeast you keep hearing about

http://www.fermentis.com/FO/EN/06-Ales/30-10_product_hb.asp

and yes, the s23 is the lager yeast


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## Daawl (18/4/08)

> Ive been tryin to find a list of what product codes are what yeasts but its blood from a stone stuff



right there with you.



> The s23 is that the saflager?



Yes mate I get the Saflager 23 seperate from the kits.

I found out from a rep that they only use a version of 514 even in their "Lager yeasts" and that was almost by mistake and a bit of pestering.

just keep surching & pestering.

Daawl

Edit: too slow


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## Armstrong (18/4/08)

Daawl said:


> ... the yeast with all morgans kits is the good old 514.
> Daawl



No it isn't ... most of the Morgan's Ales have 514 on them, but the Blue Mountains Lager has Maurivin 497

Check the specs out here if you are interested.


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## Daawl (18/4/08)

Armstrong said:


> No it isn't ... most of the Morgan's Ales have 514 on them, but the Blue Mountains Lager has Maurivin 497
> 
> Check the specs out here if you are interested.



Cool. I stand corrected. It must have been my misunderstanding from the rep.

Just downloaded & added to info directory.


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## DKS (18/4/08)

Daawl said:


> Cool. I stand corrected. It must have been my misunderstanding from the rep.
> 
> Just downloaded & added to info directory.




Great stuff thanks for the info Ill get onto it asap.


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## Armstrong (18/4/08)

Daawl said:


> It must have been my misunderstanding from the rep.



Totally understandable ... personally, I don't understand what Morgan's think sometimes ... they put a lager yeast on the Blue Mountains, but an ale yeast on the Saaz Pilsner ... go figure!


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## microbe (18/4/08)

Armstrong said:


> No it isn't ... most of the Morgan's Ales have 514 on them, but the Blue Mountains Lager has Maurivin 497
> 
> Check the specs out here if you are interested.


Is that a recent change? I've always thought that it was 514 too. That specs sheet says to brew from 15-30C so is it a true lager yeast? I would've thought you'd have to go lower still.

DKS - Sounds like pretty much what I do. Most frequently I put this one together with a Brew Booster from the LHBS (IIRC 500g LDME, 250g Maltodextrin, 250g Dextrose) and a Morgans? teabag (usually Hallertau) which goes in a coffee mug at the start with boiling water and into the fermenter before pitching the yeast. I'm only just contemplating using separate yeast having spent the last few brews getting used to the temperature I can brew at with my cooler. As FGZ says though, it does benefit from a long conditioning time - if you can be patient enough. Usually the last bottle I have is the best yet but that could just be my mind playing tricks on me h34r: 

Cheers,

microbe


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## solidghost (19/4/08)

How long do you usually condition them? And do you condition them in the fermenter or in the bottles?


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## Fatgodzilla (19/4/08)

solidghost said:


> How long do you usually condition them? And do you condition them in the fermenter or in the bottles?




SG - you got kegs or bottles ? Can you store a cube in a fridge for eight weeks ?

Reasons for these questions (last ones first)

Cubism - nothing to do with Dali. If you can pour from fermenter to a cube or similiar airtight container that you can refrigerate for an extended period you have done a vulgar form of lagering. The beer should benefit from the extended cool rest (or at least this is the principle). By being in an airtight container will cold condition a beer quicker than if you bottle and refrigerate (don't know why). Whether this will actually improve kit beers I don't know either - I did it as much as to further settle the beer and allow more yeast sediment to settle.

If you use kegs, if you can keep the keg as long as possible and as cool as possible (which may be hard for you unless you have access to fridges) do the same thing, give them a long rest in cool / cold conditions.

If you bottle, you need to have the beers at room temp for the secondary carbonation. Do that then put the bottles away for several months, again somewhere as cool as you can. Don't know what's in beer kits that cause it, but a lot taste quite poor soon after bottling but improve significantly with age. The Morgans BML I've made really tasted too sweet (as if under attentuated) but six months later were a different breed. Strange.
Hope that helps a little.


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## solidghost (19/4/08)

I had the exact same feeling too. It smells very sweet even after 1 week in the fermenter. I had thought that it wasn't fermenting but the gravity reading seems to tell me otherwise.
Anyways, keeping the beer for 6 months is beyond my self control. lol


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## Fatgodzilla (19/4/08)

solidghost said:


> I had the exact same feeling too. It smells very sweet even after 1 week in the fermenter. I had thought that it wasn't fermenting but the gravity reading seems to tell me otherwise.
> Anyways, keeping the beer for 6 months is beyond my self control. lol



Then put away a few for a few months in the future and see how much they improve with time. Best of luck.


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## dc59 (19/4/08)

Only brewed this guy once and didn't bother reading the label properly. Only afterwards did I notice the instructions not to boil the kit (which I of course did), I believe it is because they used some method of late hopping the kit I believe.

Anyone know why your not suppose to boil this particular kit. I checked with the east india pale ale kit and they make no mention of not boiling the kit so it might be limited to the BML kit.

Dave


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## beerbeergloriousbeer (19/4/08)

The instructions state that it has been roll boiled and if you boil again it will destroy the hop aroma. I have read that they use a Hallertau hop oil in these cans. It must do something to the oil????


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## Fatgodzilla (19/4/08)

beerbeergloriousbeer said:


> The instructions state that it has been roll boiled and if you boil again it will destroy the hop aroma. I have read that they use a Hallertau hop oil in these cans. It must do something to the oil????




Its been a much discussed argument whether boiling the worts has much impact on either the malts in the wort or the hops in the wort. It will probably take out some hop aromas. Bitterness ? Dunno. If you do boil add more hops for aroma. I find if I'm adding extra malt, I want more hops anyway to keep at the least the same bitterness levels. Why you boiling it anyway ?


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## dc59 (19/4/08)

If I'm using a kit I usually bring it up to a boil to kill off any bugs, more recently I've been mashing about 2kg of grain and after bringing that to a boil for 5 min (again to kill off any bugs) than turn off heat and dissolve kit and any other adjunct into solution.

My lesson was learnt and I always read labels of kits before I do anything nowadays.

Dave


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## solidghost (19/4/08)

I was thinking that doing a short boil should be okay and it will allow you the flexibility of adding hops to your wort. Just boil enough to kill any bacteria off.


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## AlwayzLoozeCount (19/4/08)

Dravid said:


> Only brewed this guy once and didn't bother reading the label properly. Only afterwards did I notice the instructions not to boil the kit (which I of course did), I believe it is because they used some method of late hopping the kit I believe.
> 
> Anyone know why your not suppose to boil this particular kit. I checked with the east india pale ale kit and they make no mention of not boiling the kit so it might be limited to the BML kit.
> 
> Dave



I think it says on the can dont boil it because they have tried to get the flavour/bittering right before you make it blah blah blah. boiling it will reduce the bitternes I think. Their kits do seem ok tho, the royal oak amber ale stuff is nice and it says dont boil the kit on the can (dont boil the can on the kit?), I think it even says dont put boiling water in, use hot tap water so as not to ruin the taste. I think the morgans kits make better beer than coopers kits tho, not so much tin twang...


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## solidghost (20/4/08)

I had though that boiling will increase the bitterness but will reduce the flavour/aroma?


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## dc59 (20/4/08)

Yeah thats true. The longer you boil the more you break down the oils that give aroma and flavour. Aroma will generally be driven off after just 5 min of boiling and flavour about the 30 min mark of boiling, leaving mainly just the bittering which will continue to increase the longer it is boiled.


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## Mclovin (20/4/08)

I am brewing one up now, according to the instructions under the cap, you add 4 ltrs of water at about
75 'C.


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## Arioch (23/4/08)

Dravid said:


> Yeah thats true. The longer you boil the more you break down the oils that give aroma and flavour. Aroma will generally be driven off after just 5 min of boiling and flavour about the 30 min mark of boiling, leaving mainly just the bittering which will continue to increase the longer it is boiled.



Is that in reference to the boiling of the kit or just hops?


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## hbg (23/4/08)

solidghost said:


> I had though that boiling will increase the bitterness but will reduce the flavour/aroma?



I have noticed that heat can make the light malt darker. The pic that was shown before looks like the tin has been heated up.


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## hbg (23/4/08)

Armstrong said:


> Totally understandable ... personally, I don't understand what Morgan's think sometimes ... they put a lager yeast on the Blue Mountains, but an ale yeast on the Saaz Pilsner ... go figure!



I have a tin in front of me with a Lager yeast in it.


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## MCT (23/4/08)

Armstrong said:


> Totally understandable ... personally, I don't understand what Morgan's think sometimes ... they put a lager yeast on the Blue Mountains, but an ale yeast on the Saaz Pilsner ... go figure!




Has anyone tried brewing this kit with an ale yeast? If so, how did it turn out? CAn you see any problems with doing this?
I want to try this kit but can't get the temps low enough yet.


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## dc59 (23/4/08)

If you wont to use an ale yeast, I'd recommend us-05, Its more neutral and cleaner tasting than the s-04 yeast. Haven't used any of the liquid types sorry so I don't know what they're like. Don't see a prob with using an ale yeast with the kit.

Plus getting the ideal temp for us-05 will be easy in this weather.

Dave


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## solidghost (25/4/08)

hbg said:


> I have noticed that heat can make the light malt darker. The pic that was shown before looks like the tin has been heated up.



Yes, it has been heated up using cool water. And it is has been sitting on the water for about 5 - 10 minutes.
I think it will take much longer that to darken till it looks like that!


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## solidghost (25/4/08)

MCT said:


> Has anyone tried brewing this kit with an ale yeast? If so, how did it turn out? CAn you see any problems with doing this?
> I want to try this kit but can't get the temps low enough yet.



I am doing this with the Ringwood Ale Yeast. Hope it will turn out okay.


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## DKS (25/4/08)

solidghost said:


> I am doing this with the Ringwood Ale Yeast. Hope it will turn out okay.




Close to bottling my 1st Bluey made as post #6 
Took SG yesterday and smelt strongly of bubblegum 
Anyone experienced this? tastes OK no hint of anything sour or infection. 
Searched Bubblegum seemed to more common with wheats
DAZ


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## solidghost (26/4/08)

I have this aromatic but very sweet smell from it too.
Did a little sample taste, no sourish flavours and it taste very crisp.
What's the alcohol content you have, DKS?


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## DKS (26/4/08)

solidghost said:


> I have this aromatic but very sweet smell from it too.
> Did a little sample taste, no sourish flavours and it taste very crisp.
> What's the alcohol content you have, DKS?




Solidghost 
Been out all day Ill take another reading tonight and post later.

Daz.


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## DKS (26/4/08)

DKS said:


> Solidghost
> Been out all day Ill take another reading tonight and post later.
> 
> Daz.




Hi Solidghost, 
Got onto it eventually. Shes finished at 1.010. Started at 1.048. If I've worked it out right should be 5% alc. Had a kilo of dextrose and some DME and corn syrup in there
The strong bubble gum smell has all but gone as well. As previous post suggests this kit uses Maurivin 497 yeast, one I dont think I've used before. I thought this may have been the reason for the smell but it didnt seem prominent in posts of Blue Mt kits. Anyway I'll bottle it Wednesday arvo and see how it goes. Next Blue I'll use a different yeast.

Daz.


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## solidghost (27/4/08)

Yes, the yeast provided seemed to be the Mauribrew yeast.
I had only used DME (lager malt) and the Ringwood Ale yeast for the brew and it has a gravity of 1.016 at the end. Two weeks in the fermenter. But I am still not sure whether it had completed fermenting but there don't seem to be any change to the gravity so I bottled it. Tasted okay to me. But I was expecting something way more crisp than that. Perhaps the yeast was the wrong type for this beer.


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## solidghost (10/5/08)

I just opened up a bottle of the Morgan's Blue Mountain Lager brew.












And it taste great, just about 2 weeks in the bottle.


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## boingk (11/5/08)

Wooshka! Nice head on it for only 2 weeks in the bottle! You regularly drink with that much on top though? 

Not bad looking anway, might have to have a shot at it sometime...


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## solidghost (13/5/08)

It could be due to the yeast. I used Wyeast Ringwood Ale Yeast for this batch, perhaps it is the reason why it is done pretty fast.

The reason why there is so much head is because of the glass. Not too sure how it goes, but if I used a regular beer mug, there won't be that much head.


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