# Problem with Auber SYL-2352 PID controller.



## TheCarbinator

So I bought the following items a couple of weeks ago to make up my HERMS temp controller.

Auber PID Model: SYL-2352P
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=4

Temp probe (PT 100)
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=20_15&products_id=261

Also bought the appropriate SSR and heatsink to suit.

I had them hooked up by an electrician while carefully reading the instructions.

Then when I turn it on, the temperature is showing (as far as I can work out) minus two hundred and something degrees.

That was after I changed the settings to celcius.

Then I swapped the two red wires on terminals 3 and four.

Now it is showing 636 degrees celcius (as in photo)



.

Has anyone come across this?

Any advice would be great!

Cheers

Andrew


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## dmac80

Hi Andrew,

White goes to 5, reds to 4 and 3.

Cheers
Dan


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## TheCarbinator

dmac said:


> Hi Andrew,
> 
> White goes to 5, reds to 4 and 3.
> 
> Cheers
> Dan



Hi Dan

Yeah that is how it is hooked up.

I'm starting to think that the "636" is not an actual temperature cos it has not changed.


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## goodbrew

reading through the manual it has an initial setting for a K type thermocouple, have you changed this to a PT100 rtd?

cheers
John


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## TheCarbinator

goodbrew said:


> reading through the manual it has an initial setting for a K type thermocouple, have you changed this to a PT100 rtd?
> 
> cheers
> John




Yeah I have set the sn setting to 21


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## Edak

I would guess that the settings are wrong or you are looking at a non-temperature screen.

Offsets like that are really significant and aren't usually from connection problems, however do you have some sort of connector between the controller and the sensor or is the sensor screwed directly onto the controller?


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## dmac80

Then make sure your connections are nice and tight, PT100's can be prone to playing up due to bad connections.

Have you set it up for PT100? Setting Sn should be 21. Yes (edit. Too slow)

Cheers


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## Edak

Also, if you have a multimeter, can you measure across one of the red wires and the white one (whilst disconnected from the controller). It should read about 100-110 ohms (0 degrees-23 degrees)


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## TheCarbinator

Edak said:


> you are looking at a non-temperature screen.



Yeah I am thinking the same thing.
I am hoping that it is something simple.


The probe is connected straight to the controller as it is designed to do.


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## TheCarbinator

Edak said:


> Also, if you have a multimeter, can you measure across one of the red wires and the white one (whilst disconnected from the controller). It should read about 100-110 ohms (0 degrees-23 degrees)



Ok yeah my electrician mate has one.

Maybe the probe could be faulty


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## TSMill

I bought the same probe and had to re-solder one of the wires. I recall the error was something similar to what you are describing, memory
is a bit fuzzy.


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## Edak

I spin out when I hear that people don't have a multimeter because this day in age almost everything is electronic. It's a tool that you can get for under 5 dollars delivered from China, takes 5 minutes to learn how to use it can save a lot of hassle when you have problems with any electronic device. 

This is not a dig, rather an observation. The problem is definitely your sensor connection as identified on the USA forum where you posted the same question. The user manual states it on the last page. Measure your RTD to see whether it is faulty and you will have your answer.


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## TheCarbinator

Edak said:


> I spin out when I hear that people don't have a multimeter because this day in age almost everything is electronic.


Yeah you are dead right!
I guess what makes it worse for me is that my dad is an electrician, he wanted to train me as a sparkie and all I wanted to be was a chippie because it interested me more.

I might pull the probe apart and have a look for any loose connections, hopefully that will be my problem.
Other than that, I will have to learn how to use a bloody multimeter!


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## TheCarbinator

Bingo!







Loose cable.

Poor form on Auber's part I think.


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## TheCarbinator

Bingo!


View attachment 61962
View attachment 61962



Loose cable.

Poor form on Auber's part I think.


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## QldKev

I'm a bit later now since you found it, but my Auber probe had that same issue.


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## TheCarbinator

QldKev said:


> I'm a bit later now since you found it, but my Auber probe had that same issue.


Got it working, now just need to work out how to program the bloody thing!


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## Edak

Was it just one red wire that was loose? It is imperative that both red wires are used (and not connected to reach other at the controller end) because otherwise your readings will be wrong.


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## TheCarbinator

Yeah just one wire was loose.


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## Tex083

I would send the pic back to Auber, not to be offensive to them but as a FYI thing as im sure they wouldnt want anyone else to have the same problem.


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## Screwtop

Has anyone had a problem with accuracy using the Auber SYS-2352P. Last Friday during the first run of my new PID controlled HERMS I noticed that the controller was sometimes hunting and having trouble maintaining temp. I had autotuned the PID using water in the mash tun and all went perfectly, but during the mash temp swung by up to three degrees above and below set point. The only difference was that during the mash I was recirculating wort not water and the flow rate was slow, so as not to compact the grainbed. Gave it a test run later and found the same result using just water, but only when flow was slowed. 

Thinking about this, flow rate should not affect the reading from the temp probe or the controller. Remembered reading something in the manual quick guide regarding poor accuracy, so checked this again.



> 8.3 Poor Accuracy Please make sure calibration is done by immersing the probe in liquid. Comparing the reference in air is not recommended because response time of the sensor depends on its mass.


Looking at the location of the probe in the wort out of the HEX I wondered if an air bubble in the fitting where the probe is located could be the issue, possibly less of a problem when flow rate is higher. Maybe some air has been trapped in the cavity.

Wondering if others have experienced this and how others have their probe mounted. Previously using an STC-1000 probe in a thermowell screwed into the same location caused no issues. Am using the Auber 2.5in PT100 probe.

Thinking I might re-plumb the probe to the bottom of the outlet!


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## Camo6

Screwtop, I can't shed any light on the subject as I'm still in the R&D stages of my controller (and following your build and everyone elses) but keen to learn of any potential pitfalls before I order my bits from Auber.
I'd planned on using a 1.5" PT100 as I thought the 2.5" would protrude too far into the compression fitting which seems fairly restricted to begin with. Do you find this to be the case? And if so is it possible for grain to get caught there or cause turbulence? I've no idea of the diameter of a pt100 so this may not be a concern. I'm currently using Nev's thermowell/herms coil with stc1000 probe and note it's only 1" in length and places the probe close to the centre of the 'T'.
Sorry for the slightly off-topic but trying to glean as many tips as I can.


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## TheCarbinator

Screwtop said:


> Has anyone had a problem with accuracy using the Auber SYS-2352P. issues. Am using the Auber 2.5in PT100 probe.


Screwy

I was having similar problems when I first ran mine.

After a lot of experimentation and a few calls to the Auberins Tech support in the States, there is a french guy there who knows what he is talking about and helped me with the settings.

Now I have +/- 0.2 degrees.

You can try the following settings and then run an autotune with the same flow rate as during the mash (ideally circulating wort).

ALM1 100
ALM2 3
Hy1 1
Hy2 1
Hy 0.1
At 3
I 114
P 488
D 22
T 6
Sn 21
dP 1
P-SL -100
P-SH 2500
Pb 0.0
OP-A 0
OUTL 0
OUTH 100
AL-P 17
COOL 2
Addr 1
bAud 4800
FILt 0
A-M 2
LocK 808
EPI-EP8 nonE


Let me know how you go.


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## TSMill

I initially tried to autotune mine just using water. I increased the volume to account for the absent grain, pro-rated based on heat capacity of grain vs. water.....long story short it did not calibrate with a "real" mash as well as I would like. I also found that recirculation rate does have an impact on the autotuning. 

In the end I bit the bullet and ran the autotune for a 66C celsius step on an APA. One thing to note, when running the autotune the timer seems to stop, so if you have a 60 min rest at 66 and the autotune takes 15, it will run that step for 75mins unless you intervene.


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## TheCarbinator

TSMill said:


> I also found that recirculation rate does have an impact on the autotuning.
> 
> In the end I bit the bullet and ran the autotune for a 66C celsius step on an APA.



+1


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## Screwtop

Camo6 said:


> Screwtop, I can't shed any light on the subject as I'm still in the R&D stages of my controller (and following your build and everyone elses) but keen to learn of any potential pitfalls before I order my bits from Auber.
> I'd planned on using a 1.5" PT100 as I thought the 2.5" would protrude too far into the compression fitting which seems fairly restricted to begin with. Do you find this to be the case? And if so is it possible for grain to get caught there or cause turbulence? I've no idea of the diameter of a pt100 so this may not be a concern. I'm currently using Nev's thermowell/herms coil with stc1000 probe and note it's only 1" in length and places the probe close to the centre of the 'T'.
> Sorry for the slightly off-topic but trying to glean as many tips as I can.


[SIZE=10.5pt]I feel the smaller thermowell size would be better as the 2.5in does protrude right through the T into the inlet side. [/SIZE]



TheCarbinator said:


> Screwy
> 
> I was having similar problems when I first ran mine.
> 
> After a lot of experimentation and a few calls to the Auberins Tech support in the States, there is a french guy there who knows what he is talking about and helped me with the settings.
> 
> Now I have +/- 0.2 degrees.
> 
> You can try the following settings and then run an autotune with the same flow rate as during the mash (ideally circulating wort).
> 
> ALM1 100
> ALM2 3
> Hy1 1
> Hy2 1
> Hy 0.1
> At 3
> I 114
> P 488
> D 22
> T 6
> Sn 21
> dP 1
> P-SL -100
> P-SH 2500
> Pb 0.0
> OP-A  0
> OUTL 0
> OUTH 100
> AL-P 17
> COOL 2
> Addr 1
> bAud 4800
> FILt 0
> A-M 2
> LocK 808
> EPI-EP8 nonE
> 
> 
> Let me know how you go.


[SIZE=10.5pt]Thanks mate is this what you have now[/SIZE], or were these settings provided by Suyi from Auber Instruments. The reason for asking is that I is set by autotuning.

[SIZE=10.5pt] EDIT: I see these are your settings after autotune as your At=3[/SIZE]



TSMill said:


> I initially tried to autotune mine just using water. I increased the volume to account for the absent grain, pro-rated based on heat capacity of grain vs. water.....long story short it did not calibrate with a "real" mash as well as I would like. I also found that recirculation rate does have an impact on the autotuning.
> 
> In the end I bit the bullet and ran the autotune for a 66C celsius step on an APA. One thing to note, when running the autotune the timer seems to stop, so if you have a 60 min rest at 66 and the autotune takes 15, it will run that step for 75mins unless you intervene.


Yes the timer does stop during autotune, a trap for new players, luckily I had followed a step provided by QldKev and had a ramp to temp followed by Txx=0 so it was waiting for input after autotune. Autotune with the flow rate restricted took one hour as I had set Hy-2=3, Hy-1=3, Hy=2 so the thing kept heating to 3 degrees SV set point and then switching off until 3 degrees below SV. 

Thanks Brewers,

Screwy


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## TSMill

Screwtop said:


> Autotune with the flow rate restricted took one hour as I had set Hy-2=3, Hy-1=3, Hy=2 so the thing kept heating to 3 degrees SV set point and then switching off until 3 degrees below SV.


That does not sound right to me, based on those values it should be 1 degrees above or below (3-2). I don't think the deviation alarms impact auto tuning though, they only provide a delay moving onto the next step following a ramp (so, until you are within 1 degree of the end of the ramp step, it will not move on to the next soak step).


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## Screwtop

TSMill said:


> That does not sound right to me, based on those values it should be 1 degrees above or below (3-2). I don't think the deviation alarms impact auto tuning though, they only provide a delay moving onto the next step following a ramp (so, until you are within 1 degree of the end of the ramp step, it will not move on to the next soak step).


Thanks mate, I returned Hy settings to default and did another autotune and got the same result. This is where I started to think maybe there was air around the probe. Rearranged the outlet/probe position as below, will need to check this out,


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## Screwtop

Fitted 240v alarms and isolation switches and gave the system another run today. Changed parameter settings as recommended by TSMill and pretty much got the same result. Had to open up the pump out valve a little more, so it appears it's a flow rate problem and not air in the system. Maintained temp at +- .2C at the higher flow rate. Thanks for the suggestions brewers, will just have to recirculate a little faster than previously and check/stir occasionally.

Screwy


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## Online Brewing Supplies

Camo6 said:


> Screwtop, I can't shed any light on the subject as I'm still in the R&D stages of my controller (and following your build and everyone elses) but keen to learn of any potential pitfalls before I order my bits from Auber.
> I'd planned on using a 1.5" PT100 as I thought the 2.5" would protrude too far into the compression fitting which seems fairly restricted to begin with. Do you find this to be the case? And if so is it possible for grain to get caught there or cause turbulence? I've no idea of the diameter of a pt100 so this may not be a concern. I'm currently using Nev's thermowell/herms coil with stc1000 probe and note it's only 1" in length and places the probe close to the centre of the 'T'.
> Sorry for the slightly off-topic but trying to glean as many tips as I can.


Cam
The thermo well was designed and machined to be of optimum length (32mm) so it sits just above the compression fitting and thermowell junction, any longer and it would constrict flow. Any shorter and it will not contact the liquid flow at low flow speeds.
Nev


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## Camo6

Cheers Nev,

Thermowells worked flawlessly but I'm updating my controller (soonish) and seems the 1.5" pt100 would be the most suitable. I didn't notice anything shorter on the Auber website.

Good to see your post. Hope you had a good trip and caught a few big uns'.


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## The Gas Man

Today I got an electrician to wire up my 2 auberin 2352P PID's.

After reading many of your comments, I've finally got it to accept a set point (just to see if the control box is working)
C2 = 67, t2 = 20
C3 = 78, t3 = 10


As you can see from the attachment, the temp has not yet reached the setpoint, so the PID output light is green and so is the relay contact light on my control box, and the water temp is getting hotter.

However, when it does reach the desired set point, the PID output light goes out, but the control box relay light stays on and element stays on (see attachment)




My settings are all as per "the Carbinators" above.

My electrician has confirmed that the PID output is still not opening the circuit to turn it off even though the PID output light has gone off.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers
Paul


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## Camo6

Where are you getting power for the LED's? I take it they're 12V LED's wired from the PID's 12V control output to the SSR to indicate when the circuit is closed? Or are they 240V LED's wired into the output circuit of the SSR? Regardless, if they're staying lit when the PID output indicator is off it sounds like you have either a faulty PID or, more likely, an incorrectly wired circuit.


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## The Gas Man

I believe the led lights are fed from the outlet of the relay as confirmation that the circuit is working. My electrician took a reading with his multimeter straight from the terminals at the back of the pid and confirmed that the pid was still feeding a signal for the relay to stay on.


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## Camo6

If the pids still putting out 12v to the signal input of the ssr with the outout light being on sounds like the pids at fault. Mind you I'm no expert but it's all still fresh in my mind from my own build. Maybe contact Auber about it. Their customer support is pretty good.


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## The Gas Man

Thanks Cam, started to contact them today. Hopefully its something simple.


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## Camo6

Edit: for clarity I meant "without the pid output light being on" in my above post.

I got very quick responses from them Gasman. Good luck with it and make sure you post some pics when it's done.


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## gava

Camo6 said:


> Cheers Nev,
> 
> Thermowells worked flawlessly but I'm updating my controller (soonish) and seems the 1.5" pt100 would be the most suitable. I didn't notice anything shorter on the Auber website.
> 
> Good to see your post. Hope you had a good trip and caught a few big uns'.


I have some 20mm 1/2" thread pt100 probes which im picking up Saturday.

-gav


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## Camo6

Cheers Gav. I ended up using the 1.5" straight into the t piece and on the one batch I've done had no probs maintaining .3 degree swing. This was after an autotune and running the pumps fully open.


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## gava

I was looking at the Auber unit when I did my kit but it didn't say what IP rating they were.. The timer i got from them doesn't look like it has a good seal i.e. not really splash proof they had a opening on the bottom.. How do the PIDs look when mounted? the PIDS I ended up with were ones sourced myself and have a IP rating of 65 and sit out about 10mm more than my Auber timer. Which annoyed me due to all my controls not being the same height! although I love the timer..

-Gav


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## Camo6

They mount up nice and snug and seem quite well sealed. There is a clip on the underside for the fascia but I'm not sure whether this would allow water ingress into the unit. Hopefully I'll never find out. I'd imagine the design is the same for the timer.


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## Hawko777

TSMill said:


> That does not sound right to me, based on those values it should be 1 degrees above or below (3-2). I don't think the deviation alarms impact auto tuning though, they only provide a delay moving onto the next step following a ramp (so, until you are within 1 degree of the end of the ramp step, it will not move on to the next soak step).


Hi TSMILL
I know this is an old post but I have just got my system running. I use 2 x Auber 2352 and 1 x Auber 2352P.
Going by THE CARBONATORS settings, the alarm 2 comes on above or below the set temp point. I would like it to come on once temp is reached.
Does this mean I have to change Hy1 and Hy2 to different values. I don't want differential alarms just set temp alarms.
New to this and its doing my head in.
Cheers in advance.
BTW, I'm brewing now....lol


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