# Simple Stout Recipe



## stew.w (29/11/09)

Im going to make my first ag stout this weekend as a xmas present for my grandad as he's been nagging me to make one for a while now.
found this recipe (scaled up to 40L) in one of the threads on this forum, i want to make something reasonably simple as its only my 4th ag brew and i dont want to have to buy loads of small amounts of ingredients. i dont really drink much stout but he likes coopers and sheaf.

40L Batch

​Amount Item Type % or IBU

10.00 kg Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.9 EBC) Grain 83.3 %

1.00 kg Black Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (1300.2 EBC) Grain 8.3 %

1.00 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 8.3 %

150.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (60 min) Hops 42.0 IBU

50.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (20 min) Hops 8.5 IBU

1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 

2 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) Yeast-Ale 
​ any help comments would be much appreciated as ive never made one before.

Cheers,

Stewart


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## manticle (29/11/09)

Guessing that you're going for a dry stout.

My stouts are usually a blend of strong and milk. I use a pale base (ale malt) and build up the colour with a blend of choc, black and roast barley. I have also used crystal but would question the wheat in this recipe.

My initial reaction was that that is a lot of black and you may get some astringent qualities. However, keeping in mind that it is pretty much a double batch (and you don't drink the stuff?) the roastiness you seek in a dry may be helped by the extra black. I'd still consider cutting it back and replacing it with a bit of roast barley though. RB gives that nice coffee characteristic.

More highly bittered than my versions too so that's worth considering if you're using a lot of highly roasted malts. It may need some balance.


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## Bribie G (29/11/09)

Although not a huge fan of S-04, I have actually made some good stouts with it. However with the hops, a stout isn't normally very hop driven - I would personally cut the hops in half, yes in half. As Manticle says it could end up quite unbalanced. I'd also sub about a third of the TF black with a Choc, and reduce or eliminate the wheat unless you are looking for very dry. :icon_cheers:


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## bradsbrew (29/11/09)

I would drop the wheat and replace it with a sweeter malt, carared or spec B @ 400g. Add a kilo of roasted barley and 500g of choc malt. Save the EKG and use a higher aa% hop , in less amount for bittering and keep in mind you will have an astrigient bitterness from the black and roasted malt. Also split the later edition of EKG to a 20min and a 5 min.

Cheers Brad

Edit. As Bribie has mentioned S04 is OK in a stout. If possible use wyeast 1275( bit dryer finish). or 1968( bit sweeter finish). IMHO


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## stew.w (29/11/09)

halved the hops and this gives me 25.2 IBU's, is this about right?
got rid of wheat and replaced with pale and sub a third of black for choc.
what yeast should i use, i have no idea i just guessed.
as i said i've never made a stout before.


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## manticle (29/11/09)

There are different kinds of stouts so it depends what you want. Some stouts such as Imperials are hopped quite highly (50+ I think). Most others are lower.

My version of a strong cream stout is hopped to about 30 IBU although it needs something to balance the sweetness from the lactose. I would guess that anything from 20 -30 will be ok.

What your grandfather seems to be into is dry stout. If you're happy to use a liquid I would go for any of the london ale yeast, thames valley or whitbread from wyeast. I have made a beautiful stout using US05 too as the main characteristics are malt rather than yeast so neutral works. Next version I'll be trying whitbread (1099).


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## bradsbrew (29/11/09)

You've gotta have roasted barley in there and also oats. Also the mash temp will be a huge factor as well. I have been working on the feedback from judges from QABC and AABC to get the body up and dry balance and will put it all into practise with my next two Stouts, a dry and an Imperial. I am still getting the oat and temp balance worked out but I am working on x oats allows lower mash temp and still get body??


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## MattC (29/11/09)

bradsbrew said:


> You've gotta have roasted barley in there and also oats. Also the mash temp will be a huge factor as well. I have been working on the feedback from judges from QABC and AABC to get the body up and dry balance and will put it all into practise with my next two Stouts, a dry and an Imperial. I am still getting the oat and temp balance worked out but I am working on x oats allows lower mash temp and still get body??



+1

From my limited experience........I understand you dont want to buy a heap of grains, but c'mon, its grandad isn't it??? Bradsbrew is right, you need a little roasted malt in there (reduce black malt to 400g and add 400g of roasted malt) and Im wondering why the wheat malt?? if its for head retention, then sub for flaked barley if possible. Mash temp, you didnt mention that but yes its important for body, you want to up around the 68 or over mark to get the body you need for a stout!!

God luck and let us know the outcome!!


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## manticle (29/11/09)

MattC said:


> +1
> 
> From my limited experience........I understand you dont want to buy a heap of grains, but c'mon, its grandad isn't it??? Bradsbrew is right, you need a little roasted malt in there (reduce black malt to 400g and add 400g of roasted malt)



Sorry to be pedantic but it's purely to avoid confusion for anyone not familiar.

Roast malt could be anything from choc to black.

Roast barley on the other hand is UNmalted. I do agree that it has an important place though.

I mentioned it before too but I agree that it really is great in a stout. Almost a signature for many types.

80-82% ale or other pale base malt.
5% roast barley
2-3% black
5 % Choc
5% Crystal

Could sub out some of the crystal for oats.


Should be tasty. Bitter to 25 - 30 IBU with English hops and use a good english yeast. Allow to mature.


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## MattC (29/11/09)

manticle said:


> Sorry to be pedantic but it's purely to avoid confusion for anyone not familiar.
> 
> Roast malt could be anything from choc to black.
> 
> ...



Corrected!! Yes I meant roast barley sorry


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## stew.w (29/11/09)

Amount Item Type % or IBU

10.00 kg Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.9 EBC) Grain 84.7 %

1.00 kg Barley, Flaked (3.3 EBC) Grain 8.5 %

0.40 kg Black Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (1300.2 EBC) Grain 3.4 %

0.40 kg Chocolate Malt (Joe White) (750.6 EBC) Grain 3.4 %

75.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (60 min) Hops 21.3 IBU

25.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (20 min) Hops 4.3 IBU

1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 

2 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) Yeast-Ale ​ 

How does this look?
bradsbrew, how much oats should i put in? and what should i sub it in for?
thanks for all the help so far people
will probably use us05 not s04 as i already have some


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## MattC (29/11/09)

That looks better Stew, give it a crack and happy xmas grandad. Im sure he will be happy!!


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## bradsbrew (30/11/09)

Stew.W said:


> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 
> 10.00 kg Pale Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.9 EBC) Grain 84.7 %
> 
> ...


Mate I am pretty sure that flaked barley is rolled oats, but would like to be corrected if wrong, your recipe is looking good though i would add a kilo of roasted barley and dont tell anybody but at day 3 of ferment I would boil a bit of water add a 100g of sugar and steep a vanilla bean in it for 10 min then add it to the fermenter. :icon_chickcheers: 

Cheers Brad


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## manticle (30/11/09)

I vote for roast barley but that recipe is otherwise looking a-ok.

Vanilla sounds good brad. Sugar has its place in brewing - some of the best beers in the world use sugar and 100g ain't much anyway.


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## bradsbrew (30/11/09)

manticle said:


> I vote for roast barley but that recipe is otherwise looking a-ok.
> 
> Vanilla sounds good brad. Sugar has its place in brewing - some of the best beers in the world use sugar and 100g ain't much anyway.


Yep. Originnally got the idea for the vanilla from Browndog and Ross too I think then just varied it slightly by doing the sugar thing with it mid-ferment. I figure that the mid-ferment adition should help dry it out although I have no supporting scientific reasoning because there probably isn't any and I have consumed any supplimentry evidence.


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## stew.w (30/11/09)

are the rolled oats the same type as you would make porridge out of?


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## bradsbrew (30/11/09)

Stew.W said:


> are the rolled oats the same type as you would make porridge out of?


Yep I steal the home-brand stuff out of the pantry. Pisses the misses off. But she buys extra these days. For those that have seen the note she left on the kitchen scales you can imagine the note left on the oats container  

Cheers


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## clean brewer (30/11/09)

bradsbrew said:


> Yep I steal the home-brand stuff out of the pantry. Pisses the misses off. But she buys extra these days. For those that have seen the note she left on the kitchen scales you can imagine the note left on the oats container
> 
> Cheers


I do feel for you Brad... :icon_cheers: 

CB


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## RagingBull (30/11/09)

My go at a coopers best extra stout. From doing a little research here on the forums and other sources, i came up with this. Just waiting for it to mature now.. i think it's going to take some time, so i doubt it will be ready, even by christmas. I have made drier stouts before and found them to be more drinkable a little earlier, so thats probably the go.

Recipe: Best Extra Stout I
Brewer: Andy
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Foreign Extra Stout
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 20.00 L 
Boil Size: 25.99 L
Estimated OG: 1.060 SG
Estimated Color: 80.9 EBC
Estimated IBU: 52.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 73.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4.77 kg Ale Malt (Barrett Burston) (6.3 EBC) Grain 83.7 % 
0.57 kg Black Barley (Stout) (985.0 EBC) Grain 10.0 % 
0.36 kg Wheat Malt (3.9 EBC) Grain 6.3 % 
32.00 gm Superpride [13.00%] (80 min) Hops 52.4 IBU 
1 Pkgs Cooper Ale (Coopers #-) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Full Body
Total Grain Weight: 5.70 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time 
Mash In Add 14.86 L of water at 72.4 C 66.0 C 60 min 
Mash Out Add 6.61 L of water at 98.2 C 75.0 C 10 min

Batch Sparged 11L @ 80degC


Notes:
------
Additons of chalk are typical of this style (High Calcium, but low sulphates)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cheers,


Edit: Wheat Malt, Not Torrified..


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## manticle (30/11/09)

Three questions.

Was the 7g pack of coopers yeast enough? I would have thought with that gravity, that you'd want a bit more. 

Any reason you went coopers kit rather than recultured? The coopers kit isn't the same as they use in their beers.

Curious about the addition of wheat malt in a stout. What's the motivation for its inclusion?

Not criticisms - there's more than one way to brew a cow and I'm sure this one will say moo and give milk as much as she should.


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## benno1973 (30/11/09)

Jamil recommends a BU:GU of around 0.9, so assuming you're shooting for around 1.055, I'd say 50IBU would be fine. :huh: Just brewed a stout the other day and it was:

70% Pale
20% Flaked barley
10% RB

BU:GU of 0.9.

Tastes sensational, and as simple as you could get!


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## RagingBull (30/11/09)

Yeah.. a bit misleading, I'll clear that up.

- Recultured Coopers Yeast
- Wheat malt included as per the recipe (someone on here supposedly got the specs at the coopers brewery tour)


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## stew.w (30/11/09)

yeah i saw that somewhere here too, thats the only reason i had it in there originally.


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## schooey (30/11/09)

Recipe: Simple Stout
Brewer: Schooey
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Dry Stout
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 40.00 L 
Boil Size: 50.20 L
Estimated OG: 1.062 SG
Estimated Color: 61.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 30.7 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
9.50 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 90.48 % 
0.50 kg Chocolate Malt (886.5 EBC) Grain 4.76 % 
0.25 kg Oats, Malted (Thomas Fawcett) (3.9 EBC) Grain 2.38 % 
0.25 kg Roasted Barley (Thomas Fawcett) (1199.7 EBGrain 2.38 % 
2.00 gm CaCo3 (Chalk) (Mash 90.0 min) 
40.00 gm Target [11.00 %] (60 min) Hops 25.2 IBU 
25.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (30 min) Hops 5.5 IBU 
1 Pkgs Irish Ale (Wyeast Labs #1084) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 10.50 kg
----------------------------
My Mash
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
90 min Step Add 34.12 L of water at 73.4 C 68.0 C 

Ferment at 17C.... Simple :beer:


You could use S-04 if you want, it is much maligned, but i don't mind it so much. just dont underpitch it; If it were me doing this recipe and using S-04, I would pitch 4 11g packets at as close to ferment temp as I could get... Hell you could even use US-05 and get a great tasting stout i bet your Grandpa loves


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## bradsbrew (30/11/09)

Thats an Old Ale not a Stout Schooey h34r:


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## schooey (30/11/09)

bradsbrew said:


> Thats an Old Ale not a Stout Schooey h34r:



yeah maybe.. but you'd be surprised at the stout mouthfeel with the warm mash and the malted oats... two things that aren't really typical of an Old Ale...

I backed the hops off because I got the inclination the OP didn't want too many IBU's. If it was my own personal choice, It'd probably be closer to 7%, 60 IBU, 10% + roast with a 6% sugar addition on day 2 and a blended liquid yeast... But that kinda takes the simple away...

Still bet the old fella would enjoy it though....


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## drsmurto (1/12/09)

Flaked barley is a legal requirement in stouts or so i thought. Or flaked oats. :lol: 

Not simple _per se_ but Warren's 3 shades and 4 shades of stout never fail to put a smile on my dial. 

I push them to OG 1.050 and 45 IBU. Never brewed any other stout after discovering these!

Cheers
DrSmurto


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## geoffi (1/12/09)

I've made some pretty good dry stouts lately. Single infusion, 80% pale, 10% roast barley, 10% flaked barley, ~ 35 IBU, Nottingham yeast.


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## Fourstar (1/12/09)

Geoffi said:


> I've made some pretty good dry stouts lately. Single infusion, 80% pale, 10% roast barley, 10% flaked barley, ~ 35 IBU, Nottingham yeast.



Funny how this thread went from 'simple' to 'complex' stouts in 2 pages!  I'll try and keep mine simple.

From discussions ive had with warren, (and i agree) you need something to add complexity to that kind of grain bill to make it sing. Ive done it twice, with varying amounts of flaked and roast with varying results. Both beers where great dry stout quaffers, one being mildy roasty and the other balls to the wall roast but unfortunatly, lacking complexity.

I did one as 70% Pale, 20% Flaked, 10% Roast (was the balls to the wall coffee/roast one) and got nowhere in stout extravaganza as it was too 'plain jane'. All of the judges where looking for chocolate (even though its not a requriement of the style, its a 'may have') <_< but that kind of complexity is searched for by discerning palates, or so it seems (or a poor interpretation of the style guidelines). 

My next attempt i think even a small addition of carafa would go well to add some layering to it. This beer also needs some 'smoothness' to it, Carafa would help accentuate this caracter to offest the mild acrid notes you can get from roast barley.

Something like this is what i'll be shooting for:

SG: 1.050
IBU: 35

70% Maris Otter
20% Flaked Barley
7% Roast Barley
3% Carafa Special II

EKG 35 IBU FWH Addition only

A high attenuative clean profield yeast, something english for the purists. 
I might even try it with 1272 fermented lowwwww. :beerbang:


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## drsmurto (1/12/09)

Fourstar said:


> Funny how this thread went from 'simple' to 'complex' stouts in 2 pages!  I'll try and keep mine simple.
> 
> From discussions ive had with warren, (and i agree) you need something to add complexity to that kind of grain bill to make it sing. Ive done it twice, with varying amounts of flaked and roast with varying results. Both beers where great dry stout quaffers, one being mildy roasty and the other balls to the wall roast but unfortunatly, lacking complexity.
> 
> I did one as 70% Pale, 20% Flaked, 10% Roast (was the balls to the wall coffee/roast one) and got nowhere in stout extravaganza as it was too 'plain jane'. All of the judges where looking for chocolate (even though its not a requriement of the style, its a 'may have') <_< but that kind of complexity is searched for by discerning palates, or so it seems (or a poor interpretation of the style guidelines).



Steam Exchange stout is my favourite stout. Not slap you around the face roast but oozing malt complexity. 

According to that link it has 4 malts so not exactly the most compex malt bill going around. I have no idea what goes into it but to my untrained and uneducated palate it is similar to the version 4 shades of stout that i brew. I scored a few 6 packs of this beer last year for winning the stout section of ANAWBS with Warrens recipe. As you have noted, the judges were after more complexity in a dry stout.

Just my 2 c
Cheers
DrSmurto

p.s. maybe Brother Stout aka Trough Lolly could give his thoughts on dry stouts.

EDIT - i have brewed the 'guinness grist' you listed a few times and found it lacking, hence my membership of the shades of stout fanclub!


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## Fourstar (1/12/09)

DrSmurto said:


> Steam Exchange stout is my favourite stout. Not slap you around the face roast but oozing malt complexity.
> 
> According to that link it has 4 malts so not exactly the most compex malt bill going around. I have no idea what goes into it but to my untrained and uneducated palate it is similar to the version 4 shades of stout that i brew. I scored a few 6 packs of this beer last year for winning the stout section of ANAWBS with Warrens recipe. As you have noted, the judges were after more complexity in a dry stout.
> 
> ...



How dows the steam exchange sit as a dry stout? I'd love to be able to whip out a version of the JS Craic they serve from the 'brewhouses' as a bog standard recipe i use for a dry stout. :icon_drool2:


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## drsmurto (1/12/09)

Fourstar said:


> How dows the steam exchange sit as a dry stout? I'd love to be able to whip out a version of the JS Craic they serve from the 'brewhouses' as a bog standard recipe i use for a dry stout. :icon_drool2:



I doubt Steam Exchange have set about to fit their stout into a BJCP category......

Its definitely not a FES or RIS and doesn't have a sweetness to it. Its definitely not a seppo stout. 

They dont market it as an oatmeal stout.

So i guess that leaves a dry stout.

Whether it fits in there i dont know. I am yet to get to that category in the BJCP studies but will bring a bottle of that along when we do to see how it goes.

For me, its all about the malt in this stout. I find it very well balanced with layers of malt for want of a better description. Its not overly roasty but there is so much going on.


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## stew.w (1/12/09)

is coopers stout bottle conditioned?
if it is should i use recultured yeast in it?

Thanks,

Stewart


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## geoffi (1/12/09)

Stew.W said:


> is coopers stout bottle conditioned?
> if it is should i use recultured yeast in it?
> 
> Thanks,
> ...



AFAIK Coopers use the same yeast in all their bottle-conditioned beers, so you should be able to culture it up. But that being the case I'd try to culture from the Mild or Pale, as the lower alcohol content might leave a healthier yeast.


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## Georgedgerton (1/12/09)

Fourstar said:


> Funny how this thread went from 'simple' to 'complex' stouts in 2 pages!  I'll try and keep mine simple.
> 
> From discussions ive had with warren, (and i agree) you need something to add complexity to that kind of grain bill to make it sing. Ive done it twice, with varying amounts of flaked and roast with varying results. Both beers where great dry stout quaffers, one being mildy roasty and the other balls to the wall roast but unfortunatly, lacking complexity.
> 
> ...





+1 I have brewed similar with good results. Nothing complex will work well


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## coeliacsurvivor (2/12/09)

Hi all,

I'm farily new to this and I'm planning on brewing up a stout soon. I have a couple oquestions.

1 - do you add all the grain to mash? there are no grains steeped prior to the boil to add colour etc?
2 - what temp do you have your primary and your secondary at?
3 - are there any decent dried yeasts for stout?

Cheers

Colm


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## manticle (2/12/09)

I mash spec and base grains together. The spec/roasted grains help drop the pH of the mash and the processes are so similar anyway that it just seems to make sense. I know other brewers add spec grains at different points but they can tell you about that.

My primary and secondary aim for the same as all my other ales - 18 -20 (sometimes gets to 22).

I have successfully used US-05 in a stout. S-04 could presumably be used with success. I'm sure there's others.


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## sid (3/12/09)

the mash temp will be important on a stout if you want body to you beer, I made a mistake with my 1st BIAB pale ale and mashed at 75c which stopped the FG from going past 1.022, but I learnt a valuable lesson for a future stout in that it gave the beer lots of body and a sweet flavour.

hey I was wondering....... is it done to use pilsner grain as a base malt for a stout?, or should a ale malt be used.


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## Fourstar (3/12/09)

sid said:


> the mash temp will be important on a stout if you want body to you beer, I made a mistake with my 1st BIAB pale ale and mashed at 75c which stopped the FG from going past 1.022, but I learnt a valuable lesson for a future stout in that it gave the beer lots of body and a sweet flavour.
> 
> hey I was wondering....... is it done to use pilsner grain as a base malt for a stout?, or should a ale malt be used.



It shouldnt be a real issue. You will just end up with a sweet grainy malt base character, if its even detectable to your palate anyway with the amount of dark roasted malts you will be using. Traditionally you should go for something british e.g. Maris Otter but there is nothing wrong with using pilsner as a base in your stout. I'd sub in a little Brown malt to get some biscuit/nutty qualities.


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## sid (3/12/09)

Fourstar said:


> It shouldnt be a real issue. You will just end up with a sweet grainy malt base character, if its even detectable to your palate anyway with the amount of dark roasted malts you will be using. Traditionally you should go for something british e.g. Maris Otter but there is nothing wrong with using pilsner as a base in your stout. I'd sub in a little Brown malt to get some biscuit/nutty qualities.




thanks, I might just give that a go then, I could hop it a bit to counter the sweetness if need be.
I know I have some chocolate and roast barley.........a few oats and I might have something.


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## Fourstar (4/12/09)

sid said:


> thanks, I might just give that a go then, I could hop it a bit to counter the sweetness if need be.
> I know I have some chocolate and roast barley.........a few oats and I might have something.



Even the Choc and Roast barley is enough to knock out a decent Dry stout. trust me, if you add enough roast, you wont have a clue what your base malt is or even enough carafa. Ive got a Black IPA (yes, Black IPA) just thrown into the fermenter last night with around 6% Carafa. It isnt overtly chocolatey or roasty, but it is enough to cover up any pilsner sweetness i used as the base malt.


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## sid (6/12/09)

Fourstar said:


> Even the Choc and Roast barley is enough to knock out a decent Dry stout. trust me, if you add enough roast, you wont have a clue what your base malt is or even enough carafa. Ive got a Black IPA (yes, Black IPA) just thrown into the fermenter last night with around 6% Carafa. It isnt overtly chocolatey or roasty, but it is enough to cover up any pilsner sweetness i used as the base malt.



sounds good, a couple of the lads..... myself included are partial to the odd bottle of stout. Seems the longer you HB the more you progress to the stronger tasting beer.
I get the old pilsner grain here in NZ for $15 for 5kg, thats the cheapest grain i can buy... unless buying a 25kg pilsner sack which might lower that price by $2 for 5kg


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## stew.w (13/12/09)

well i made my stout the other day and its tuned out pretty good, im giving half of it away but i think i may keep the other half to myself.
this is what i used:

40L Batch

8kg trad. ale malt
2kg rolled oats
0.4kg black malt
0.4kg choc malt

mashed @ 68C

125g EKG (4.8%) @ 60 min.
34.1 IBU

US-05

sg 1055
fg 1010

about 5.7% alc/vol

Thanks for all the advice.

Cheers,

Stewart


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