# Cider making, Keeving method - Anyone tried it?



## philistine (23/2/18)

Hey dudes,
Ive ramped up my cider making considerably this year and now that ive built my own scratter and press, im geeking out on it HARD BRO

Anyway, wondering if anyone’s tried keeving before?
How did it go?
Did you use calcium chloride?
Did you use the enzyme?
All the things?

Real keen to hear any first hand accounts of the whole process

Cheers!


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## MHB (23/2/18)

Have played around with Keeving, so to reply to your points
Went well (sometimes)
Tried CaCl2 and CaSO4 and CaLactate, all the same so I suspect its the Ca that matters, found the lactate had a lower flavour (less salty)
You don't need PME (enzyme) if you are using fresh pressed juice (the apples contain enough) and even a part fresh part store brought juice should work. Worth noting that the enzyme is killed in packaged juice either by heat or by very high pressure (used in cloudy juice).

It really is a process best suited to large volume producer (with access to proper cider apples), it ticklish to do at home, The following is a good link *Keeving - What's That?* worth a read and there are some good recommendations for other reading at the foot of the page.
Drinking a 3 year old Oak aged semi sweet Cider (one of the early Keeving experiments) at the moment (only about 5L left in the keg), its still clear and the flavour has held up well.
One thing that I find makes a big difference is to adjust the pH at the end, somewhere around 4.3pH but needs to be adjusted to taste (carefully) use Potassium Bicarbonate, odds on the pH will be 3.something when the cider finishes, just make very small adjustments to a sample until you hit the sweet spot, then adjust the rest to match.
Mark


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## philistine (23/2/18)

Thanks man!
Fortunately i have access to a virtually unlimited supply of apples.
(Wild trees and abandoned orchards)
Obviously the orchard fruit will likely be table apples but a lot of the wild trees ive found are *really* old - so their varieties are likely to be olde skoole English cultivars.
The other thing with the fruit im picking is that the trees are all neglected and malnourished (by commercial production standards) and so the fruit generally seems to be high in tannin regardless of variety..... anyway
Ive got some access to a few cider apples and have also been picking crabs as they start coming into season.
Ive read the shit out of that link your posted a few times now and im super keen to give it a go.


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## philistine (23/2/18)

Ps. When you say adjust pH at the end - what do you mean by end?
We talking at packaging time? (I dont have kegs)
My understanding of keeving seems to suggest that its best to package at around 1.015-1.010 SG so as to allow the final stage of the ferment to carb and bottle condition


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## philistine (23/2/18)

Also, did you temp control the ferment? Or just use ambient during the cooler months?


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## MHB (23/2/18)

Whew - lots of questions
Always control temperature! I don't know where you are lurking, but Keeving is usually conducted pretty cold (5oC), I certainly cant manage that reliably outside a fridge.
You're lucky to have free fruit off old trees, small malnourished apples would I suspect be the best for where you're heading, well other than true Cider verities that are pretty rare in Australia.
Crab Apples have never done much for me, they might help with sour/bitter flavours and acids but I cant say I like what they bring to cider.
A big part of the effect of Keeving is to stop the ferment progressing to dryness (making sweet/semisweet cider). If that's your intention, avoid adding nutrient you are looking for a slow cold ferment.

And yes check the pH at the end of the ferment just before packaging, adjust to taste.
Mark


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## philistine (23/2/18)

Thanks again!
I’m in kyneton and also work near harcourt.(apple country)
Our street is lined with apple trees too...
Plus i run a gardening business, so i know what’s in everyone’s backyard [emoji6]
One such client is growing michellin, yarlington mill and kingston black, but they’re still quite young, so not enough fruit for a full batch.
We did a pressing run last wknd and id picked a small box of red crabs with pink flesh.
The juice was also pink and tasted f-ing amazing.
Ive now just picked a decent qty and real keen give them a starring role in the next batch.

Thanks again for your help


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## MHB (23/2/18)

philistine said:


> Thanks again!
> I’m in kyneton and also work near harcourt.(apple country)
> Our street is lined with apple trees too...
> Plus i run a gardening business, so i know what’s in everyone’s backyard [emoji6]
> ...



To quote from the life of Brian....
You lucky, lucky bastard...
Mark


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