# Big Biab



## QldKev (8/2/11)

Last week I got my new 140L pot. Talking to ekul, we decided it's time to do a 100L BIAB. 

Brew sheet was a fairly simple mid IPA known as 'MIDIPA'
12kg Pale
6kg Munich II
0.5kg Crystal Pale

125g POR @ 40min
125g Cascade @ 10
125g Cascade @ 0
125g Cascade @ Dry 

People talk of reduced efficiency in large batches, so we put 75% into Beersmith. Not that I was chasing big efficiency; Im more worried about a good beer. 

First up we had to measure out the pot, in 10L increments.





The new pot with little bro next to it.




To reduce stress on the bag, we use two next to each other.




Lifting out the first bag




Mongolian burner running pretty hard to get it up to the boil, notice a few jets glowing red.




more to come...


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (8/2/11)

Hi, QldKev,

Where did you buy the pot and for how much? Is it SS or Aluminium?

Ta

Chris


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## QldKev (8/2/11)

Another pic of the burner, notice the white flame centres



First hops addition measured.




One of the late hop additions




Flame out hops added



Not long after



Pic does not do this justice, 375g of hops from the brew pot.






Overall we found,
The dual bag system worked a treat. 
We only used a cold water sparge / aka hose sparge, which worked a treat.
Next time for sparging we are going to dump the bags into my 82L pot and sparge into it. 
Expected gravity was 1.043, we hit 1.046 so pretty close. 
The 20jet Mongolian even with a 0-207kPa LPG reg, was the minimum to do the job. (I have 2 Nasa burners on order)
Overall the brew day was easier than expected. With ekul thinking he is going to try the same size by himself; using the seperate pot for sparging. 

4 x 25L cubes dumped into the pool for cooling  



QldKev


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## QldKev (8/2/11)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Hi, QldKev,
> 
> Where did you buy the pot and for how much? Is it SS or Aluminium?
> 
> ...




The pot is a Ali, but a decent commercial quality.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...em=220720958660
$158 + $53 postage. 

I didn't want one of those cheap S/S jobs that rust and dent easily, but didn't also want to spend the $ a decent S/S costs. For a pot I will use once a month Ali rocks; it is also a better heat conductor and a lot lighter to carry. 

QldKev


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## mkstalen (8/2/11)

QldKev said:


> 4 x 25L cubes dumped into the pool for cooling



That's the first time I've heard of that cooling method and it's a brilliant idea. I wonder how many people are doing this..


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## QldKev (9/2/11)

stienberg said:


> That's the first time I've heard of that cooling method and it's a brilliant idea. I wonder how many people are doing this..




Not sure of many people doing it, I call it slow-chill. II used to drop the cubes into a couple of large pots, but the pool is easier as the pots would warm up and need water changes. It helps get the temperature under that critical 80c as quick as we can. 

I've even though of having cooling pipes in through the cube lids. So cube up hot and then circulate water through the cooling pipes. Even as they are in the pool, have a small pump I throw in the pool with them and pump the water through, I could daisy chain them together. Only reason I have not tried this is I'm worried its more bits to harbour infections. 

QldKev


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## Nick JD (9/2/11)

I pump mine through an old Land Rover radiator with a fan blowing on it.


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## Malted (9/2/11)

Nick JD said:


> I pump mine through an old Land Rover radiator with a fan blowing on it.




Are you for real or am I the spinner? ('Come in spinner').
It actually sounds feasible but would be a bugger to plumb, clean and sterilise?


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## Fents (9/2/11)

exactly how we started cooling our beer at kooinda when the brewery was in the Rosanna backyard (minus the cubes obv). Hose into pool ---> pump --> heat exchanger ---> hot water back into pool. 

people would freak out when they saw it, just one big water tank though innit.

and nice work on the batch size kev!


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## QldKev (9/2/11)

> exactly how we started cooling our beer at kooinda when the brewery was in the Rosanna backyard (minus the cubes obv). Hose into pool ---> pump --> heat exchanger ---> hot water back into pool.
> Same setup as Bundy sugar uses at the mills except they have large ponds; the water does not come into contact with the product so no problems. Except the ponds warm up and grow some smelly stuff!
> 
> 
> ...



QldKev


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## ~MikE (9/2/11)

Nick JD said:


> I pump mine through an old Land Rover radiator with a fan blowing on it.






Malted said:


> Are you for real or am I the spinner? ('Come in spinner').
> It actually sounds feasible but would be a bugger to plumb, clean and sterilise?



nah, nothing serious... what do you know about lead? 

actually it could be feasible, anyone stupid enough to use one would probably be unaffected by lead poisining.


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## Maheel (9/2/11)

Nick JD said:


> I pump mine through an old Land Rover radiator with a fan blowing on it.



i often look at old air con cooling / condensor units and think the same thing...

cleaning out the re-frig stuff would be the issue and some are now ally not copper as well.

any thoughts on the idea ?


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## Nick JD (9/2/11)

Nah - I was just joking (needed to use more smiles face things) about the radiator. 

Water is much better at robbing heat from something than air - although an all-aluminium radiator with a fan on it might work. But it'd cost the same as a proper heat exchanger probably and take five times as long.


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## gregs (10/2/11)

Hey Kev how did Luke take it when you nuded up for the brewing? Did it scare him or is the big pot too high to sweat into?


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## ekul (10/2/11)

Kev told me that the sweat is calculated as part of the salt addition. 20 drops a batch


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (10/2/11)

QldKev said:


> The 20jet Mongolian even with a 0-207kPa LPG reg, was the minimum to do the job. (I have 2 Nasa burners on order)




How long did it take to get on to the boil with the mongolian??? and..... when the nasas arrive, how quick do you expect the time to get to boil to be?


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## QldKev (10/2/11)

_WALLACE_ said:


> How long did it take to get on to the boil with the mongolian??? and..... when the nasas arrive, how quick do you expect the time to get to boil to be?



I don't have an exact time, but 30-40mins to get there. Then it was still working hard to hold it on a decent boil. With the 2 nasas under it I am hoping to halve the time. Even been thinking there could be enough space to fit the mongolian and both nasas under the pot. Now that would be some serious heat :lol: 

QldKev


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## manticle (10/2/11)

1 Nasa underneath and one immersion element over the side might be an option.


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## QldKev (10/2/11)

manticle said:


> 1 Nasa underneath and one immersion element over the side might be an option.




Where's the fun in that; how about 2 nasa + mongolian + immersion element 

100L to the boil in 5mins B) 

QldKev


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## gregs (10/2/11)

ekul said:


> Kev told me that the sweat is calculated as part of the salt addition. 20 drops a batch




Kev sweats pure beer thats why his efficiencies are always up that little bit.


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## manticle (10/2/11)

QldKev said:


> Where's the fun in that; how about 2 nasa + mongolian + immersion element
> 
> 100L to the boil in 5mins B)
> 
> QldKev



Or the remnants of the nuclear space shuttle that yardy seems to use to boil his wort.


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## gregs (10/2/11)

Kev do you think it will take 2 nasas? In the pic I notice the Mongolian burner is not shrouded. You would have to think a shroud wound make a difference.


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## QldKev (10/2/11)

gregs said:


> Kev do you think it will take 2 nasas? In the pic I notice the Mongolian burner is not shrouded. You would have to think a shroud wound make a difference.



The Mongolian burner sucks air at the jet, so the shroud causes a yellow flame as it can't get enough air in around it. The Nasas sucks air from the external point of gas entry, so once I get them running I'm hoping on using the shroud to help hold in more heat. Should be pretty serious.

Hopefully they won't ice up the LPG bottle like the Mongolian did the other day. Otherwise I may need a separate bottle and reg for each Nasa.

QldKev


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## Nick JD (10/2/11)

Will ya melt your pot, Kev?


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## QldKev (10/2/11)

Nick JD said:


> Will ya melt your pot, Kev?



I hope not  , but it is water cooled so I think I should be ok. Only if I had the burners too close together I think melting the pot could be a problem. 

The pot is going to be the kettle for my 3V system, so once I get that setup going the heating power will not be such an issue. 
With BIAB I need to heat >100L from around 66c + another 20L of cold water used for cold water sparging to the boil in one hit.
With 3V/RIMS I will be transferring only half the wort at 78c into the kettle, and I can fire up the burners. Then it will be waiting for the other half of the sparge water to hit the grain bed and recirc prior to hitting the kettle. 



QldKev


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## PistolPatch (13/2/11)

Top job Kev!

Thanks for the great read. You might have set a BIAB record there I reckon :

Was dealing with 2 bags a PITA or okay? I think a single bag well-stitched would handle this no problem but would probably take ages to drain hence my question.

Impressive stuff!
Pat


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## QldKev (13/2/11)

PistolPatch said:


> Top job Kev!
> 
> Thanks for the great read. You might have set a BIAB record there I reckon :
> 
> ...



The two bags was a lot easier than expected. I have a pulley system with a swing arm built into the brew frame, so lifting them out is easy. With the bull dog clips holding the bags into place it was just lift one and allow to mostly drain; then I threw the bag into my sparge bucket. Then repeat for the second bag. Next time I will drop both the bags into my 82L keggle for sparging. So it's no waiting for draining just drop them in, pour water over the top of both bags, and drain the sparged water from the tap. We did think about using 1 large bag, and using webbing to strap the main lift weight. With about 20kg grain plus 20kg water absorbed into the grain, 40kg was sounding a bit too heavy to risk an accident. I also looked at a frame system to hold a large bag, which would work; but as long term I will be going 3v I did not want to buy/build it. The overall day was a very easy and fun day; with ekul leaving saying he is going to go the 2 bag system once he can get the gear together. About the only other thing for next time is a more powerful burner, as I would have liked to get some more heat into it to save ramp up times (both initial strike temp and to get to the boil), but with the mongolian glowing red I wasn't game enough to force any more gas into it. Between the sparge and burner changes I think we could save at least 1 hour from the brew day. Will find out in a couple more weeks when I do the next brew.

mmm, not sure if it is the biggest? I remember someone did it in a 44gal drum, but they had heaps of little kettles around for the boil.


QldKev


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## InCider (13/2/11)

~MikE said:


> nah, nothing serious... what do you know about lead?
> 
> actually it could be feasible, anyone stupid enough to use one would probably be unaffected by lead poisining.



Bahahaha


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## PistolPatch (17/2/11)

Hey Kev, thanks for the thorough reply above.

One other question I forgot to ask, how many blokes are needed to lift a 140L pot?  

I hadn't heard of the 44 gallon drum thing but I'm still shaking my head at the size of your batch  

I'm thinking these sizes might justify a 'colander' pot to hold the bag. That way, using your winch, you could just let the bag drain naturally while you go from 78 C to the boil (probably 6 hours or so in your case ). Seriously though, avoiding a sparge might be a bit more fun than man-handling your bags if you get what I mean.

With BIAB, you should find 20kgs of grain will weigh about 32 kg once drained if that's any help to you.

Once again Kev, thanks for the great read,
Pat


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## QldKev (11/3/11)

I knocked off work today at lunch time to come home do a brew. Have not brewed since that last brew on Feb 8, as above and 1 keg went to gregs and another went to thunus's so supplies getting low I though time to fill a cube or few.

Mounted my new Nasa burners onto the stand, hooked up the LPG connections and fired it up. 

This is them running to see how they go being so close together. Heaps of adjustment left, but the flames started to yellow with the heat shield in place.





Dual Nasa. Got my 120L of water from tap temp to 69c in just over 30mins; pretty happy with that!  

Mashed in and realised maybe a bit too much starting water, not overflowing but very close.





I knocked off at 12. Drove home, dragged out the brew gear, setup the nasas, got the pot on the heat, played in Beersmith to workout a new recipe, measured and crushed the grain, and had mash in by 1.30pm. I think I'll have 100L of beer in cubes within 5hours easily today.

QldKev


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## unrealeous (11/3/11)

Bloody hell that's a big brew - I'll keep an eye out for QldKev's fresh wort kits...


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## beerdrinkingbob (11/3/11)

Just awesome Kev, what sort of bags are you using to handle the load? Do the bags touch the base of the pot or you got something in the bottom so you can add heat when required?

This thread has got me thinking of letting go of the 3V idea in the future, BIAB doubles can be done effectively :icon_chickcheers: 

Also surprised you didn't melt your pot


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## QldKev (11/3/11)

unrealeous said:


> Bloody hell that's a big brew - I'll keep an eye out for QldKev's fresh wort kits...



No fresh wort kits, but any local need a cube to catch up is always welcome. 




beerdrinkingbob said:


> Just awesome Kev, what sort of bags are you using to handle the load? Do the bags touch the base of the pot or you got something in the bottom so you can add heat when required?
> 
> This thread has got me thinking of letting go of the 3V idea in the future, BIAB doubles can be done effectively :icon_chickcheers:
> 
> Also surprised you didn't melt your pot




The bags I'm using is the 2 bags in the original pics
first is a home made simple seam around the outside only setup, that I have used from day one. 
second is a Gryphon bag thunus got me. The bag is still going good, but the elastic needs replacing. 

I don't ever flame when the bags are in. Get the mash in temp correct, and then living in Qld, it help maintain the temp with a few blankets. It is an awesome setup that could be used forever. Brewing once a month, while having other hobbies is great. Also today was my first time by myself with the big pot, (only second brew) and with 100L output no problems at all.

I will be going the 3V with HERMS/RIMS. I think the constant recirc with temp control will allow me to hit consistent beer all the time, not that I'm complaining about my current beer. I would not go 3V without the HERMS/RIMS as I don't think it would not help much. But a 100L output HERMS/RIMS setup correctly would rock!.


QldKev


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## Silo Ted (11/3/11)

That two bag concept is a simple but clever idea. Though I would have liked to have seen you try a single bag, to see if the weave & stitching held up to 12g grist and the retained wort weight


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## ekul (22/3/11)

I just bought one of these pots. A bargain at $158, it may even be delivered for that price. I'm stoked. 100L batches here i come!


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## gregs (22/3/11)

ekul said:


> I just bought one of these pots. A bargain at $158, it may even be delivered for that price. I'm stoked. 100L batches here i come!



Hhhmmm.............. I can smell that beer already.


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## ekul (22/3/11)

Us big brewers are all about putting a little piece of ourselves into every batch


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## QldKev (22/3/11)

you sure that's not pilchards?


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## gregs (22/3/11)

Thered be a scale involved in it somewhere. :icon_drunk:


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## Brewing_Brad (22/3/11)

QldKev said:


> [snip]Dual Nasa. Got my 120L of water from tap temp to 69c in just over 30mins; pretty happy with that! QldKev[/snip]



Noob question, but out of curiousity how much gas do you reckon that would that go through? Or are these burners super efficient?

I'm just havin' issues imagining a wee BBQ gas bottle attached to something like that.

Brad


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## QldKev (22/3/11)

Brewing_Brad said:


> Noob question, but out of curiousity how much gas do you reckon that would that go through? Or are these burners super efficient?
> 
> I'm just havin' issues imagining a wee BBQ gas bottle attached to something like that.
> 
> Brad




I'm just running 9kg LPG/BBQ bottles, but I do have 1 bottle per burner.

I've only run 2 batches from this setup (aka 300L) so early stages, but I think per L of beer brewed it is about just as efficient as my original 3 ring burner doing singles. To give you an idea, one bottle was already half empty (don't know accurate measurement) and the second was a full one before I got them. The half empty one ran out, and the other has made 2 batches so far with at least another batch or so in it. 

If I just ran 1 burner I think it would still get to the boil. It would take a bit longer and since I would need to run the burner pretty hard it would be a lot noisier. With 2 burners running on medium pressure they are relatively quite (a lot quieter than my Mongolian on the same 0-207kpa reg) and get to temp a lot quicker. Good thing is, if I was in a hurry I could crack them both hard and same some time on brew day.

QldKev


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## Cocko (22/3/11)

I boil in a 120L pot to make 4 cubes worth, so about 100L, with a single turkey burner....

I get about 7-9 batches out of a 9kg bottle.

May seem like a lot but at $24 dollars re-fill at the big green shed - 24/7 = an extra 3.50 a 100L batch = not much... Thats 4 kegs, so 4 kegs spread over 3.50 = about .80c of gas per keg.... 

Buying grain and hops in bulk, surely still ahead IMO

2c.


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## ekul (22/3/11)

Cocko said:


> I boil in a 120L pot to make 4 cubes worth, so about 100L, with a single turkey burner....
> 
> I get about 7-9 batches out of a 9kg bottle.
> 
> ...




Cocko do you mean you get 7-9 brewdays worth of beer (700-900 litres) out of a 9kg gas bottle? Thats bloody good economy.

Although i just moved my burner 3cm closer to the pot and i'm suddenly using a third of the gas...


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