# Grain Substitutes



## Muss (25/7/07)

I'd like to brew belgian style AG beers, but we have a very limited range of foreign grain available in the country. We don't have, Special B, Buscuit malt or Melanoidin malt

However we do have:
Australian Pale Malt
Weyermann Pilsner
UK Pale Ale Malt
UK Marris Otter Pale
GER. Vienna Malt
GER Munich Malt
UK Cara Malt
UK Crystal Malt
UK Chocolate Malt
UK Roast Barley
UK Dark Crystal
UK Amber
UK Pale Chocolate Malt
Uk Golden Promise
Carapils
Australian Wheat

Can anyone suggest how I could get substitute the belgian style malts with ones in the list and still make a reasonable belgian abbey style ale?
I've heard I can use munich malt in a decotion mash to up the melanoidin levels to make it similar to melanoidin malt, but will have to investigate further. Has anyone tried that?

Thanks


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## DarkFaerytale (25/7/07)

craftbrewer and grain and grape both sell malanoidin, i believe the other two types canned be substituted by other grains but some of the otehr guys/girls will be able to explaine it better than myself

where abouts are you from muss? maybe someone in your area can help you out with a good LHBS

-Phill


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## Darren (25/7/07)

Muss,

Use Weyermann Pilsener as 90% of base malt and

A little of all of these:
GER. Vienna Malt
GER Munich Malt
UK Cara Malt
UK Crystal Malt
UK Chocolate Malt
UK Roast Barley
UK Dark Crystal
UK Amber
and some melanoidin would get you close.

cheers

Darren


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## bconnery (25/7/07)

Muss said:


> I'd like to brew belgian style AG beers, but we have a very limited range of foreign grain available in the country. We don't have, Special B, Buscuit malt or Melanoidin malt
> 
> Can anyone suggest how I could get substitute the belgian style malts with ones in the list and still make a reasonable belgian abbey style ale?
> I've heard I can use munich malt in a decotion mash to up the melanoidin levels to make it similar to melanoidin malt, but will have to investigate further. Has anyone tried that?
> ...



Melanoidin is commonly used as a substitute for decotion mashing I believe. A way of approaching the levels without the effort. It is my understanding that devotees of the decotion don't find it a truly acceptable substitute but they could answer better than I. 

You can make an excellent belgian ale without special B and biscuit, and many have. Check the recipe section here for belgian dubbels or dark ales. 

Cara-aroma is often stated as a substitute for special B, and biscuit is a malt, but also a type of malt I believe, like many malts are crystal malts, even though they aren't all called crystal. 

Clear as mud? I'm still learning about the whole thing, as we all are, but you can try a few pages like this:

http://byo.com/referenceguide/grains/


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## Muss (25/7/07)

Cheers for replies.

I've been over to a HBS in Auckland who has that range of grain I posted above. 
My recipe called for aromatic malt and special B malt, which we substituted with caramel malt.
It also called for biscuit malt which we substituted with UK cara malt.
It won't be the same beer as the recipe, but hey, I just invented a new recipe


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## PostModern (25/7/07)

Muss said:


> Cheers for replies.
> 
> I've been over to a HBS in Auckland who has that range of grain I posted above.
> My recipe called for aromatic malt and special B malt, which we substituted with caramel malt.
> ...



G'day.

If you update your profile to include your location people here might stop recommending Oz HB shops and stuff we can source here. (Normally GMK would advise you of this, but he doesn't seem to be online).


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## Tony M (25/7/07)

I knew he was a Kiwi cause he was looking for busquit malt.
Getting serious, there was a link here last week on home grain roasting by Graham Sanders and included tricks for melanoidens etc. If you search that , you may never have a supply problem again.

I found the article
http://oz.craftbrewer.org/Library/Methods/.../roasting.shtml


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## sstacey (25/7/07)

I use caraaroma instead of special B. Works nicely.
I'd be using this before Brit style crystal malts, they don't give the right flavour.


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## ozpowell (25/7/07)

Hey Muss,

Take a look at this thread:

Belgian Substitutes

Cheers,
Michael.


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## Muss (25/7/07)

Wicked cool!

I've updated my details and cheers for the substitute suggestions.
The info on roasting your own grains sounds really good, I might buy a 25kg bag and give it a try but I'll have to get a bigger grain crusher than my wooden rolling pin  

Hmm so the biscuit and special b malts have their caramel flavour because the grains are roasted while still wet, so the sugar in them gets caramelised, the other malts like pilsener, munich etc are dried before roasting so the sugar doesn't caramelise. I wonder what would happen if I brew with munich grains and simply throw in some actual caramel or real biscuits. Has anyone experimated with this?


mmmm oreo beer, how mean would that be with ice cream


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## Jazman (25/7/07)

kia ora Muss

wonder i a few of your micro would have some of the grain .. i hear mocro do sell the odd grain in nz


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## mikem108 (11/10/07)

This old chestnut, 

What do you use in place of:

Honey Malt
Special Roast
Victory Malt
Aroma Malt


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## kabooby (11/10/07)

The chart I have suggest that Bairds Brown malt can substitute for Special roast.

Have not tried this so cant comment on the comparison

Kabooby


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## Stuster (11/10/07)

The subs I've seen for those are

Honey Malt replace with Weyermann melanoidin malt
Special Roast replace with amber (or possibly brown) malt
Victory Malt replace with amber (or possibly brown) malt
Aroma Malt - I've never seen this one, but could it be aromatic malt, again sub with melanoidin.

Hope that helps.  What are you making?


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## mikem108 (11/10/07)

Going through a bunch of Jamil's and other recipes getting the grain store ready for a brewing marathon, I plan to enter as many beers into as many contests as I can next year!


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