# NEIPA yeast



## Leyther

I'm attempting a NEIPA unfortunately I have been unable to source the recommend London ale yeasts WY 1318 or WLP013.

I have the following available hence looking for advice on which to use

WLP023 Burton
Nottingham
S04
S05
BRY97

I was originally thinking the Burton but they say it gives fruity and spicy flavours however they state Apple and pear which are not really the fruity flavours I would be looking for.

I've never used S04 so not sure what it brings along, only used notty once but was a pale that took a while to condition, was originally disappointed but turned into nice beer in time.

S05 and BRY97 I use a lot in West coast style I know they will do a job but usually offer little in terms of added flavour.

Any thoughts/suggestions?

Cheers


----------



## captain crumpet

S04 will give you a clear beer, flocs like a sack of tates.


----------



## GalBrew

If you can get WLP644 go with that. None of the yeasts you list are really what you are looking for. Maybe WLP023.


----------



## beerbrewer76543

I doubt the yeast matters when your dumping in a tonne of hops. I've used 1469 because I had it on hand. Tastes good.


----------



## GalBrew

If you are looking for biotransformation of hop compounds then I would stick to London Ale III or Conan. If not then it doesn't really matter.


----------



## technobabble66

Maybe avoid the Notto. It has a reputation for muting hops impact.


----------



## Coodgee

lewis.kitney said:


> I doubt the yeast matters when your dumping in a tonne of hops. I've used 1469 because I had it on hand. Tastes good.



this


----------



## Leyther

I'll try the Burton and see how it goes as it needs using anyway.


----------



## hirschb

lewis.kitney said:


> I doubt the yeast matters when your dumping in a tonne of hops. I've used 1469 because I had it on hand. Tastes good.



Erm, it depends what you are going for. If you're looking to make something that looks like an orange juice milkshake, then yeah, yeast strain matters. If you are not trying to make an "authentic" NEIPA, then no, use whatever clean-ish ale strain you like. I consistently hear that London III produces the best results. I have used TYB Funktown a few times (aka Conan and WL644 blend), and it works ok. I can get some nice hop-haze, but nothing approaching the frothy milkshake looks I see in photos online of some popular recent NEIPA's.


----------



## manticle

Authentic? This particular deputy vice subgenre assistant version of ipa is about 5 minutes old.

Also one I don't really get conceptually (particularly the haze obsession) but if you do want lots of haze, wlp013 is not the right yeast (from above list). Quick, bright finisher in my experience. 1469, while not as quick, will also drop bright


----------



## GalBrew

On the bright side even the spent starter liquid from 1469 tastes good, so it can't be too bad.


----------



## Coodgee

manticle said:


> Authentic? This particular deputy vice subgenre assistant version of ipa is about 5 minutes old.
> 
> Also one I don't really get conceptually (particularly the haze obsession) but if you do want lots of haze, wlp013 is not the right yeast (from above list). Quick, bright finisher in my experience. 1469, while not as quick, will also drop bright


Do you even bio-transform?


----------



## manticle

My middle name is bio


----------



## Mardoo

Surname logical?


----------



## Leyther

I'm not looking for the haze I really don't give a monkeys about the appearance to be honest but the best ones I've had do tend to be cloudy. I'm just drinking a 3 Ravens juicy its delicious.


----------



## Brewman_

first off, I am a retailer, so just making it clear,

NEIPA, everyone is using WY1318 London Ale III, and its been rolling for a while.

I have a stack of it, if that helps?

Cheers Steve


----------



## hirschb

manticle said:


> Authentic? This particular deputy vice subgenre assistant version of ipa is about 5 minutes old.
> 
> Also one I don't really get conceptually (particularly the haze obsession) but if you do want lots of haze, wlp013 is not the right yeast (from above list). Quick, bright finisher in my experience. 1469, while not as quick, will also drop bright



What is your point exactly?
There is a reason for the haze. The mouth-feel and perception of mouth-feel differs when the beer is super-hazy. This is being done on purpose, not by accident. If one wants to duplicate the fairly large number of NEIPA's available in the States, it pays to use a yeast that helps produce that haze.


----------



## GalBrew

hirschb said:


> What is your point exactly?
> There is a reason for the haze. The mouth-feel and perception of mouth-feel differs when the beer is super-hazy. This is being done on purpose, not by accident. If one wants to duplicate the fairly large number of NEIPA's available in the States, it pays to use a yeast that helps produce that haze.



I would have thought that to keep the haze for more than a week you would need to derive it from protein (oats and wheat) and hop polyphenols.


----------



## warra48

I'm with manticle. Brewers have spent decades, if not centuries, working to get rid of haze. It's a common fault found in competitions. Why are we reinventing the wheel? Include me out, no matter arguments about mouthfeel or hop juiciness or whatever. The only style I can manage it is Hefeweizen.


----------



## fletcher

warra48 said:


> I'm with manticle. Brewers have spent decades, if not centuries, working to get rid of haze. It's a common fault found in competitions. Why are we reinventing the wheel? Include me out, no matter arguments about mouthfeel or hop juiciness or whatever. The only style I can manage it is Hefeweizen.



i agree. i will admit to not researching its origins but have a feeling it was created through laziness with removing haze haha


----------



## Leyther

My brew had a lot of oats and wheat in it, so maybe the haze comes from that not the yeast. I decided to pitch the Burton in the end will see how it goes.

Personally Im not trying for a cloudy beer but equally I don't care if it looks like dregs, I'm all about flavour not appearance, if I was id only brew boring lagers.

I've always been a massive IPA fan, I love a nice resinous IPA but I'm really enjoying these fruity NEIPAs. Isn't that why we brew? Life would be boring if we all liked Carlton draught ( I believe it's the worst beer I've ever drank all over the world)


----------



## GalBrew

I recently made a NEIPA with 10% oats and 30% wheat. I have to admit I was horrified at how cloudy the wort was out of the grainfather. I split the batch half with London Ale 3 and half with WLP644. The London Ale 3 batch looks ok, for the 'style'. The 644 batch looks like paint but is very fruity. I chucked some biofine in the keg in the hope of reducing the ridiculous level of murk.


----------



## goatchop41

warra48 said:


> I'm with manticle. Brewers have spent decades, if not centuries, working to get rid of haze. It's a common fault found in competitions. Why are we reinventing the wheel? Include me out, no matter arguments about mouthfeel or hop juiciness or whatever. The only style I can manage it is Hefeweizen.



Go for it then. No one is demanding that you to drink it. Feel free to dismiss it just because you have this misinformed notion that the haze is a negative characteristic. See you later. We'll drink all of the delicious beer.
This is a different haze - it's not like chill haze or anything like that. It is a side effect of the positive processes that give the beer it's chief characteristics - heaps of hop polyphenols, and then other hop oils being biotransformed by the yeast. If you think that means that it is an inferior beer, then you obviously don't want to taste one of the most 'fruity' beers going around


----------



## warra48

LOL 

Enjoy your beer !


----------



## manticle

hirschb said:


> What is your point exactly?
> There is a reason for the haze. The mouth-feel and perception of mouth-feel differs when the beer is super-hazy. This is being done on purpose, not by accident. If one wants to duplicate the fairly large number of NEIPA's available in the States, it pays to use a yeast that helps produce that haze.


I know there's a reason for the haze in beers like heady topper. I also know that some brewers and consumers focus overly on that aspect as a feature, which was never the initial intention.

My point, since you ask was that it seems absurd slavishly imitating a so-called style for authenticity when it's been around for such a short time and is a subset of the ubiquitous IPA. Like calling the habits of a one year old 'tradition'.

Brew and drink whatever you want.


----------



## MHB

I'm finding some of the things being said about NEIPA very suspect like; Hop Bio-transformations. Seriously the amount of hop products subject to any transformations by yeast is seriously small and the amount of hop product subject to de-esterification that is pointed to as a flavour component is miniscule.
The idea that hop Polyphenols regarded as a major potential for harsh unpleasant astringency suddenly becoming a positive, Nah.

Frankly getting a beer hazy is too easy and something brewers generally work at avoiding, so far from all I have seen if you wanted a good starting recipe for a NEIPA, just brew a Pacific Ale at 25% higher gravity, add a tablespoon of plain flour to the kettle 10 minutes from the end. perhaps lean more on CaCl2 than on CaSO4, choose a lowish attenuating yeast with a low reducing power and I think you would be most of the way there.

To me it looks like an American brewer has tastes a S&W Pacific Ale and supped it up a bit - wallah - new American style...
Mark


----------



## GalBrew

MHB said:


> To me it looks like an American brewer has tastes a S&W Pacific Ale and supped it up a bit - wallah - new American style...
> Mark



I had the exact same thought when I first heard of the mystical NEIPA. To me they always seems to taste best after they have been kegged for about 3-4 weeks and most (not all) of the yeast and hop crap has dropped out, leaving them looking hazy like a S&W Pacific Ale but not murky. Which then begs the question why don't I just brew an normal IPA?????

I think I may be done with the style. It was an interesting experiment but I still like a bright beer. Don't mind a bit of protein haze like in a Pacific Ale but the rest of it I think I can do without.


----------



## Coodgee

MHB said:


> I'm finding some of the things being said about NEIPA very suspect like; Hop Bio-transformations. Seriously the amount of hop products subject to any transformations by yeast is seriously small and the amount of hop product subject to de-esterification that is pointed to as a flavour component is miniscule.
> The idea that hop Polyphenols regarded as a major potential for harsh unpleasant astringency suddenly becoming a positive, Nah.
> 
> Frankly getting a beer hazy is too easy and something brewers generally work at avoiding, so far from all I have seen if you wanted a good starting recipe for a NEIPA, just brew a Pacific Ale at 25% higher gravity, add a tablespoon of plain flour to the kettle 10 minutes from the end. perhaps lean more on CaCl2 than on CaSO4, choose a lowish attenuating yeast with a low reducing power and I think you would be most of the way there.
> 
> To me it looks like an American brewer has tastes a S&W Pacific Ale and supped it up a bit - wallah - new American style...
> Mark



Pretty much nailed my thoughts on the matter. I have tried heady topper and found it to be highly astringent. I would not be pleased if one of my hoppy beers turned out like that.


----------



## Mardoo

Buckle down grammarians and logicians - are you ready for the BNEIPA, RNEIPA and WNEIPA?


----------



## GalBrew

Well here is my NEIPA fermented with WLP644. I will freely admit that it looks like polluted creek water, but it tastes amazing. A fruit bomb if ever there was one.


----------



## Lionman

Not sure I am a fan of NEIPAs. I have tried a few and just find them lacking. I'd rather more bitterness like a 'normal' IPA or IIPA. NEIPA tend to be too sweet and fruity for my tastes.

If I liked alcoholic fruit juice I'd drink screwdrivers.

I wouldn't mind trying Heady Topper though, see what all the fuss is over.


----------



## manticle

GalBrew said:


> Well here is my NEIPA fermented with WLP644. I will freely admit that it looks like polluted creek water, but it tastes amazing. A fruit bomb if ever there was one.
> 
> View attachment 107741




What happens when you unplug it it though?


----------



## mofox1

manticle said:


> What happens when you unplug it it though?


I'd be more worried about what happens when you turn it on!


----------



## GalBrew

It my other dimensional power cord. When unplugged it becomes a black NEIPA.


----------



## manticle

Plugged into 15 amp or 3 phase will unleash the BNEWCRWSIIPA


----------



## Leyther

Ended up doing mine with Burton, jury's out on it at the moment, smells fantastic, yeast was slow to get going, took around 3 days to start, initial thoughts were it has a bit of a phenolic taste but then had some on the weekend which I thought was much better and closer to what I've been drinking.

A lot of the beers I've brewed have benefited enormously from time in the keg but they say they NEIPAs are better drank fresh when the hops are at their best, I guess time will tell.


----------



## hirschb

My recent NEIPA. Pretty good flavor, but the appearance/mouthfeel is off. This one used TYB Funktown, but I'll try London III next. Hopefully I can get cryo hops for the next batch. I'll probably put in less citra/Mosaic, add some Galaxy leaf hops, and up the ABV, to closer to 7%.














IMG_3371[1]



__ hirschb
__ 1/9/17



NEIPA


----------



## Dan Pratt

Leyther said:


> Ended up doing mine with Burton, jury's out on it at the moment, smells fantastic, yeast was slow to get going, took around 3 days to start, initial thoughts were it has a bit of a phenolic taste but then had some on the weekend which I thought was much better and closer to what I've been drinking.
> 
> A lot of the beers I've brewed have benefited enormously from time in the keg but they say they NEIPAs are better drank fresh when the hops are at their best, I guess time will tell.



If your yeast took 3 days to get going then your flavour and overall beer will be impacted. Yeast when handled correctly and pitched the right way willl commence between 12-24hrs. 

If fermentation starts before 12hrs, too much yeast, if it hasn't started after 24hrs, not enough yeast. so 3days is a very long lag time. 

Did you achieve your target Final Gravity?


----------



## Leyther

Dan Pratt said:


> If your yeast took 3 days to get going then your flavour and overall beer will be impacted. Yeast when handled correctly and pitched the right way willl commence between 12-24hrs.
> 
> If fermentation starts before 12hrs, too much yeast, if it hasn't started after 24hrs, not enough yeast. so 3days is a very long lag time.
> 
> Did you achieve your target Final Gravity?



My OG and FG where slightly off with beersmith but I think that's down to my equipment profile which I haven't quite nailed down yet, was supposed to come in at 6.5%ABV but its 7% which could explain the alcohol flavor. I'm thinking it was caused by the yeast myself, was a WLP023, I'd had it a few months but was in date and I did let it warm up beforehand, I didn't do a starter for it though so could have been underpitched.


----------



## Leyther

Well it's almost 3 weeks since i kegged my NEIPA, contrary to style but as has been the case with all of the approx 10AG brews I've done this one is improving with age. Ask that phenolic taste has gone, the nose is Devine and its tasting good.

Finally happy with this brew, amazing how time can improve a beer!!


----------



## Leyther

Well it's almost 3 weeks since i kegged my NEIPA, contrary to style but as has been the case with all of the approx 10AG brews I've done this one is improving with age. The phenolic taste has gone, the nose is Devine and its tasting good.

Finally happy with this brew, amazing how time can improve a beer


----------



## Ronwales

Leyther said:


> View attachment 108192
> Well it's almost 3 weeks since i kegged my NEIPA, contrary to style but as has been the case with all of the approx 10AG brews I've done this one is improving with age. The phenolic taste has gone, the nose is Devine and its tasting good.
> 
> Finally happy with this brew, amazing how time can improve a beer


I've just made mine and it is impossible to drink, I can't really tell what the flavour is . It's really strong, I hope it gets better with age


----------



## Leyther

Ronwales said:


> I've just made mine and it is impossible to drink, I can't really tell what the flavour is . It's really strong, I hope it gets better with age



Try describe it, some will dissapate others unfortunately others wont.


----------



## Ronwales

Leyther said:


> Try describe it, some will dissapate others unfortunately others wont.


It's on the bitter side almost a chemical flavour. I'm going to take some to my local homebrew shop today. I spent heaps on the hops would hate to tip it.


----------



## Ronwales

Ronwales said:


> It's on the bitter side almost a chemical flavour. I'm going to take some to my local homebrew shop today. I spent heaps on the hops would hate to tip it.


What is a phenolic taste? Cheers


----------



## Leyther

I usually wait at least a month before I decide to tip something, bitterness may subside but when I've had chemical flavours they usually have not, I think the cause of mine was infection from a plastic fermentor tap. 

Still give it a few weeks.


----------



## Leyther

Ronwales said:


> What is a phenolic taste? Cheers



Strong hot alcohol type flavour, that may dissapate.


----------



## Rocker1986

Hot alcohol type flavor is from fusel alcohols not phenols. Usually caused by fermenting too warm.

Phenolic could taste like any number of things, from the beer fault guide: 
Bitter, fruit skins, fruit pits, grape seeds, grape skins, husky, oaky, roasted, tannic, tea-like, vanilla or
woody. Some have an astringent, drying, numbing, prickly, puckering or rough mouthfeel,
sometimes detectable only in the aftertaste. Some spicy phenols can also be detected as a
prickliness, warming, pepperiness or pain in the nasal passages.
Polyphenols can combine with proteins in beer to form chill (protein) haze.


----------



## Redreuben

Commercially my favourite so far has been Biggie Juice from Feral here in WA. Some others come close but thats my benchmark to date.
Im not bothered about a bit of protein haze or any haze from hop chemistry, but I think adding flour is just going a bit OTT.


----------



## ABG

Having been to Vermont and Massachusetts and tasted a bunch of NEIPA's in their natural environment, I can assure all the nay-sayers they are amazingly good and distinctly different from a a West Coast IPA, despite very similar fermentables. My favourite was Julius from Treehouse Brewing. The haze isn't an accident or lazy brewing and the brewers I spoke to talked up the difference it makes to mouthfeel. I agree with them. It's a very different beast compared to a S&W Pacific Ale. I'm yet to taste a really good locally made example, but in fairness I haven't gone out of my way to try too many.

I tried my hand at brewing one a few weeks ago and am happy with how it turned out, despite having missed my numbers pretty badly. It's not great, but it's very drinkable. It has the super hazy appearance, juicy flavour and smooth mouthfeel that characterises the style (it may be new, but it's definitely a distinct style), Mine had no wheat or oats to achieve the cloudiness and used a blend of S04/T58/WB06 yeasts. It's a bit more sessionable than most I've tasted. I'll pour one later today and post a pickie. 

I'll definitely be brewing another batch in a few weeks in order to see what it tastes like if I can avoid being a complete muppet and using way too much sparge water.


----------



## goatchop41

ABG said:


> Mine had no wheat or oats to achieve the cloudiness and used a blend of S04/T58/WB06 yeasts.



Yeah so I may be nitpicking here, but that isn't an NEIPA...That's a hoppy Belgio-hefe-ale...

Did you do anything with your water profile?


----------



## ABG

goatchop41 said:


> Yeah so I may be nitpicking here, but that isn't an NEIPA...That's a hoppy Belgio-hefe-ale...
> 
> Did you do anything with your water profile?



LOL. The yeast additions weren't equal amounts of each yeast. It was 92% S04, 5% T58 and 3% WB06. I added 3g of calcium sulfate and 3g of calcium chloride to a 21L batch, that ended up being 23L...


----------



## ABG

Photo as promised earlier. Tasting yummy on a 36 degree day...


----------



## stevodevo

That looks amazing ABG. I love the color.


----------



## kings79

*White Labs - WLP067 Coastal Haze Ale Yeast Blend*
https://www.kegland.com.au/wlp067-coastal-haze-ale-yeast-blend.html

Any one tried this for a NEIPA?


----------

