# Whats The Process To Become A Microbrewery



## BOG (7/12/07)

I've been searching everywhere and cannot find a documented process to follow to become a MicroBrewery.

At this point I'm not concerned about the business case, that will follow. (But if anyone has one I'd love to see the numbers)

I'd like to get "permission" to brew and sell my beer. Even if it dosn't make money it would be nice to sell it to cover my "Hobby".

Does anyone know where the process is documented so I can commence the paperwork trail to start my Micro. 

2008 is the year for my own brewery!


BOG


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## pokolbinguy (7/12/07)

I would assume you would have to apply through your council to get approval to use your location (house, shed, work) to run the brewery (health regs, fire ratings etc) and also apply for a liqour licence through the state government for an off licence.

Cheers, Pok


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## SJW (7/12/07)

An ABN would be a start? and a good acountant!


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## BOG (7/12/07)

I work in business so getting a company structure set up it less than a day. Seriously !

I know how to chase the $$ that's not an issue.

I just noticed a new Micro come up. Happy Goblin www.happygoblin.com (found it in the latest Beer and Brewer mag)

His web sit shows a business in startup. I can sell the Tinnie that's been parked on the lawn for the last 2 years to finance it if required.
I'm thinking there should be a well documented process to follow to get started. 

If not why not. Can't be that hard and if it is, why is it? 

I've checked out the NSW Brewers Guild Web site, nothing there. Doesn't seem to help promote new players.


BOG


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## goatherder (7/12/07)

There was a post a while ago by /// which detailed the steps. Short version - total pain in the arse, 3 levels of approval (local, state and federal), all your capital up front before you can even apply for the approvals and many months before you can start brewing. Unfortunately NSW has probably the worst process in the country. If I was a cynic I'd say the process was designed by those in the business to keep new players out. Not to say it can't be done though - check out the thread about Happy Goblin.


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## InCider (7/12/07)

BOG,

Start without all the flim-flammery of the legals and do it properly. Summer evenings at Shelly Beach for the underage kiddies, then DY and Longy. If you get kegs and vans, don't ignore Warriewood and Av.

Also, don't forget your local Golfie - Cromer might be tough, but Wakehurst are always up for a deal - that's how they got their landfill!

Sean.


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## Thommo (7/12/07)

Found this on Amazon. Won't help you with the finer details about our legal system, etc, but I reckon it would be a good read all the same.

Link

Best of Luck, and give me a yell when you're opening.

Thommo.


EDIT: I can't post links...took me three goes to get it right.


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## MHB (7/12/07)

The ATO Alcohol Industry Group
Have an information pack information that you will find useful they are available on 1300 137 290

Then you need a DA
A stale brewing licence
Then you get to do all the paperwork for the tax man.

Have lots of fun

MHB

Edit
Some of the American books might be very useful, remember that they have a very different excise system and that the information on legal/tax issue will be of little relivance.

M


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## Doc (7/12/07)

Thommo said:


> Found this on Amazon. Won't help you with the finer details about our legal system, etc, but I reckon it would be a good read all the same.
> 
> Link



I've got that book.
It is a great read, and does give good insight into getting into the brewing business.
As MHB posted it is US centric when talking about industry costs/materials and legislation, but it is still a worthy read if you are serious about actually going all-in.

Here is a blog I've been following of a guy starting a brewery in California. Remember the US market for breweries is much more mature and the councils etc typically have already approved previous breweries so they have a reference for approving new ones. If there are no breweries in you council area, chances are they will be learning with you on what is required to authorise and get the appropriate paper work done.
Keeping that in mind his blog gives you all the problems he faced, and he still isn't quite open.

Adding to what others have already posted, once your site is approved etc, you still have to deal with the ATO and the EPA etc.

Doc


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## Stuster (7/12/07)

MHB said:


> A stale brewing licence




You really have to get one of these? I thought these were optional.  :lol:


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## MHB (7/12/07)

my big fat fingers strike again
m


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## winkle (8/12/07)

Stuster said:


> You really have to get one of these? I thought these were optional.  :lol:



lol, you've discovered Fosters secret :lol:


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## Flippo (8/12/07)

Have you rang blokes like Murray's Brewery and other small brewery's around the joint? See how they did things. The bloke who was the brewer at the Macquarie in Wentworth Ave Sydney was/maybe still is a member here if I remeber correctly? That's a pretty small operation, even those two dickwads at that joint in Picton that was/is on Foxtel. Doubt they'd give you any real decent info though. Surely it would be worth all the hoop jumping if you're offering a quality product. I'm in a slightly similar situation myself at the moment, on the cusp of starting something but wondering if it's all worth it...... it's just that first big step.....


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## Trent (8/12/07)

BOG
Might wanna get in touch with Peve (pretty sure it is Peve - or is it Punter?). I would know if I saw the face! Anyway, he is going through the process of starting up a micro, and dealing with all the governmental (should I emphasize mental?) crap at the moment. Or has been for the last year or so anyway. As others have said it takes a big pain in the arse, DA's, pretty sure ya have to get clearance from the food people, the taxman, etc... then get approval from your local council, subject to zoning laws where ya wanna have it. I believe that Happy Goblin is working out of a warehouse that may (or may not) be in an industrial area.
I think that /// once stated that to get his Vic brewers licence it was 4 pages and 3 weeks. His NSW brewers licence was something like 160 pages of affidavits, 4 to 6 court appearances with lawyers (that run $4-600 per hour) and also took 7 or 8 months. PM him and he can tell you if I am wrong on those quotes, or someone else will know how to search for that stuff.
I think that it is a very expensive foray (I know, I have looked into it briefly), but if it's what ya wanna do, and ya can get people to make things easier for you, then best of luck, mate, the more micro's the better. The wonderful work done by the Raise the Bar team is a step in the right direction aswell, and as such may make it easier for micro's to start popping up a-la Victoria and other states.
I am fairly sure that ya will wanna have at least the first year's worth of running costs behind you aswell, but I am sure you have already thought of that bit.
Keep us updated
All the best
Trent


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## newguy (8/12/07)

I know 4 people who have started micros - in Canada, mind you, but the main lessons are probably applicable anywhere:
- When you've come up with a capital budget for equipment, supplies, rent, etc, double it.
- When you've come up with a detailed sales budget/growth forecast, halve it.

All 4 of them said words to this effect. And half said to go it alone, it will save heartache in the end. The other half said that investors are the way to go. So there you have it - a definitive roadmap to success!


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## bigfridge (8/12/07)

Just to summarise what others have said in a round about way.

To open a commercial brewery in NSW you need to do 3 things:

- Lodge a Development Application with the local Council. Your proposed brewery will need to comply with their requirements for a food premises and satisfy them on things like pollution, trade waste, fire safety, parking etc. You will need to contact your council to get their requirements. You may even have to move your brewery to a different Local Government area if your council has strict requirements or may even be against the idea entirely.


- Obtain a Brewers License from the  NSW Office of Liquor, Gaming and Racing to allow you to make beer. The Brewers License is issued by the NSW Licensing Court and the application process can take up to 6 months with multiple court appearances being required. 

- Obtain an Excise license from the Australian Tax Office to allow you to sell your beer. You will need to submit detailed floor plans with your application, get your tanks calibrated for volume ($2,000 each) and have a site audit where they look at everything from your recipes, stock control, measurements, purchasing and down to the locks on your doors and windows to ensure that they comply. 

Each step will take 3-6 months and end up costing you $10,000 to $100,000 depending on how much work you do yourself. 

HTH,
David


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## Ducatiboy stu (8/12/07)

Bigfridge is pretty much on the money.


You will need FULL compliance and permission from council before you can go anywhere near the Office of Liqour,Gaming & Racing. This will be a difficult step with council, as you will most likely get a reply of " You want to build a what....mate, we have never delt with one before....we will get back to you". There actually is a book that councils go by ( I have seen it ) for things like breweries, abbattiors, factories etc and they may refer to that...if they do...man you are up for a lot of hassle, if you can show it is only going to be small scale and waste etc is not an issue it may be easier.but you will need EVERYTHING sorted from cleaning chemicals to trub disposal.

You then go to the NSW OLGR and apply. If it is only for a brewery that has no retail license ( ie you are not selling to the public ) then life will be easier, once you want to sell from your brewery to the public, life gets impossible as any other license holder can object to it. A brewers license ONLY allows you to sell direct to retail or wholesale licensee's. You will find that most Micro's are set up within or as part of an existing licensed premises, this allows them to sell beer from the brewery via a retail outlet. Murry Brewery at Taylors Arm is an an example. They sell their beer thru the pub, which has its own license, you dont actually buy from Murry's

The ATO

Start here

http://www.ato.gov.au/businesses/pathway.a...001/003/043/003

They will want to know everything and then some. There primary purpose is to collect exise tax so you will have to account for every bit of grain and beer to make sure you are not cheating them. You will only need to have calibrated fermenters, as they collect exise on the brewed volume, not bottled. So if you brew 1000ltrs, but only bottle 750ltrs you pay excise on 1000ltrs. They will also take into account efficiency as well and will check your methods and recipies.

Finally, there is everything else like bottles,labels, transport etc. this is the most expensive part of it. The actual cost of the beer accounts for about 30% of the actuall total cost

Try this basic spreedsheet that I made up. You can fiddle with the number
View attachment beer_cost_sheet.xls


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## Gerard_M (8/12/07)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> You will need FULL compliance and permission from council before you can go anywhere near the Office of Liqour,Gaming & Racing. This will be a difficult step with council, as you will most likely get a reply of " You want to build a what....mate, we have never delt with one before....we will get back to you". There actually is a book that councils go by ( I have seen it ) for things like breweries, abbattiors, factories etc and they may refer to that...if they do...man you are up for a lot of hassle, if you can show it is only going to be small scale and waste etc is not an issue it may be easier.but you will need EVERYTHING sorted from cleaning chemicals to trub disposal.



It is always easier to let somebody else to all the "trail blazing" with local council, you will get a better reception from a council that already has a brewery with-in its boundaries as they already know what to expect.
Cheers
Gerard


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## BOG (9/12/07)

Would the process have changed with the latest licencing laws changes in NSW?
What if you produce less that say 1000L per year. (Like a hobby farm, but a hobby brewery)

I've just finished a renovation of a 100 year old semi in Crows Nest. 
Having now expeirenced North Sydney Council and taking 1 year to get a DA through I'm no longer scared of paperwork.

I've completed the project , which took over 2 years and i'm on a roll. 
I need a new chalenge and I'm at least going to find the process and document it (as a minimum).

Thanks for the posts. I'll let you know how I go.

BOG


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## Doc (9/12/07)

The new legislation is for the sale of alcohol in small cafes/restaurants.
It does not change the existing laws for the manufacture of alcohol.

Doc


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## Millet Man (9/12/07)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> The ATO
> 
> Start here
> 
> ...



Have just gone through the process of relocating our brewery (in Victoria though so a bit easier by the sound of it) and the ATO part was probably the easiest part of it. If you follow the guidelines they give you and use their templates for records then there should be no problems. Excise is actually paid on the beer that goes out (stubbies, kegs) not the bright beer volume, however you need to keep records of brewed volume, filtering/transfer losses to bright beer and losses during bottling and kegging.

We started talking to our "new council" in May before we looked at buildings and were up and running in our new location by November - 6 months total and half of that was finding a site. Another benefit of being in Victoria.  

Cheers, Andrew.


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## winkle (9/12/07)

> Another benefit of being in Victoria. biggrin.gif



Good to see that there is one


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## Ducatiboy stu (10/12/07)

Millet Man said:


> Have just gone through the process of relocating our brewery (in Victoria though so a bit easier by the sound of it) and the ATO part was probably the easiest part of it. If you follow the guidelines they give you and use their templates for records then there should be no problems. Excise is actually paid on the beer that goes out (stubbies, kegs) not the bright beer volume, however you need to keep records of brewed volume, filtering/transfer losses to bright beer and losses during bottling and kegging.
> 
> We started talking to our "new council" in May before we looked at buildings and were up and running in our new location by November - 6 months total and half of that was finding a site. Another benefit of being in Victoria.
> 
> Cheers, Andrew.



MMMmmm

The ATO (Alc Ing Grp in Adelaide )told me different that it was the amount of beer fermented, but they did say that they take into account losses, but they where easy to deal with and the guy I spoke to gave me a lot of info....he even emailed me all their forms etc...

Council and State Gov will be your hurdle...

And a good bank balance...  

Microbreweries have the ability to make rich people poor ( Uless you sell to Coke-Cole-Amital )


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## Thirsty Boy (11/12/07)

At work there are excise counters on the packaging lines ... once a carton of finished beer goes through the counter, excise must be paid. Before the counter.. nope.

The tax guys always want to move the counter further back up the line, the brewery wants it as close to the end as possible.. result, they are about 15 or so meters before the palletisers.

If we smash, or don't sell for QC reasons etc any of the beer that has been put through the counter, we can claim an excise credit for the product. But it has to be properly recorded and appear as an "accountable loss" in the stocktake. If its smashed before the excise counter, its just rubbish.

So its volume out the door rather than volume brewed. Mind you, they still want your fermentors calibrated and all that shizz ... if you made a lot more alcohol than you shipped out - they want to know where it went. Maybe they do it differently depending on the set-up of your brewery??

I know at least one AHB member here in Melborne that has gone through the licensing process and all the other rigmarole, and has set up a beautiful nano-brewery in his garage. (flexible 100-300L) So in Victoria at least.. its possible to do the homebrewer/microbrewer thing. Mind you, I suspect there was a chunk of cash and a lot of effort involved as well.


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## Millet Man (11/12/07)

Thirsty Boy said:


> If we smash, or don't sell for QC reasons etc any of the beer that has been put through the counter, we can claim an excise credit for the product. But it has to be properly recorded and appear as an "accountable loss" in the stocktake. If its smashed before the excise counter, its just rubbish.
> 
> So its volume out the door rather than volume brewed. Mind you, they still want your fermentors calibrated and all that shizz ... if you made a lot more alcohol than you shipped out - they want to know where it went. Maybe they do it differently depending on the set-up of your brewery??



Much the same for smaller guys like us. Our fermenters don't need to be calibrated but bright beer tanks do (this is a recent change I believe), and the brewery is counted as a bond store so excise is paid weekly once the beer is shipped out. Even for exports you have to pay the excise and then claim it back later - ATO must do well on the short term money market.

Cheers, Andrew.


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## tk75 (11/12/07)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Council and State Gov will be your hurdle...
> 
> And a good bank balance...
> 
> Microbreweries have the ability to make rich people poor ( Uless you sell to Coke-Cole-Amital )




Basicly as everyone has said, the ATO probably won't give you any hassles, just your state gov. and local council and authorities. As far as costs go for the whole process...your legal fees are going to be the ones that will send you broke before you start!!  

If your really serious about it all...have a chat on the quiet to a few of your local pubs and any independant bottle O's, hold a tasting of your base products and see what response you get. Then obviously if your product is received well...go ahead and set yourself up.

Oh and I have been through the process h34r:


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## Screwtop (11/12/07)

BOG said:


> I work in business so getting a company structure set up it less than a day. Seriously !



By far the simplest part.



BOG said:


> I know how to chase the $$ that's not an issue.



Do the "F" Round (Friends, Family and Fwits) first when raising startup capital.



BOG said:


> I can sell the Tinnie that's been parked on the lawn for the last 2 years to finance it if required.



Must be a really big tinnie :lol: 



BOG said:


> I'm thinking there should be a well documented process to follow to get started.



Hope so, Local Authority, EPA etc, Good Luck!

Screwy


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## /// (11/12/07)

Doc said:


> The new legislation is for the sale of alcohol in small cafes/restaurants.
> It does not change the existing laws for the manufacture of alcohol.
> 
> Doc



No there is some major changes withing the Liquor Act (2007) for Brewers, including cellar door sales for regional brewers.

Check out the OLGR website, not sure if the law is immediate or needs to be adopted in a time frame.

Scotty


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## Doc (11/12/07)

/// said:


> No there is some major changes withing the Liquor Act (2007) for Brewers, including cellar door sales for regional brewers.
> 
> Check out the OLGR website, not sure if the law is immediate or needs to be adopted in a time frame.
> 
> Scotty



Maybe that is something that is in a subsequent bill. This is the summary of the Bill they passed last week from here
I don't see anything explicit about cellar door sales for regional brewers. Is it implied from another clause ?



> This explanatory note relates to this Bill as introduced into Parliament.
> 
> The following Bills are cognate with this Bill:
> Casino, Liquor and Gaming Control Authority Bill 2007
> ...



I also remember reading that new licenses under the new bill probably won't be available/issued until mid 2008.


Doc


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## Doc (11/12/07)

Found the text you mention /// in the actual bill.



> *Small-scale producers of beer, spirits etc in non-metropolitan areas*
> (1) A producer/wholesaler licence authorises the licensee, if the licensee carries on business as a small-scale producer of beer, spirits, cider, perry or mead:
> (a) to sell the licensees product by wholesale, at any time on the licensed premises, to persons authorised to sell liquor (whether by wholesale or by retail), and
> (B) to sell the licensees product by retail on the licensed premises, for consumption away from the licensed premises only and only if it is supplied in sealed bottles, on any day of the week during
> ...



Doc


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## /// (11/12/07)

Doc said:


> Found the text you mention /// in the actual bill.
> Doc



its a fundamental shift and good from that respect. Just concerned at now having 2 classes of brewers and the impact on someone like St Peters, Five Islands, Queens Wharf who are small producers such changes would be positive for.

Scotty


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## floppinab (11/12/07)

Doc said:


> but only for the purposes of tasting



Damn, and I was hoping to open a hair salon using only beer products brewed on the premises.


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## floppinab (11/12/07)

/// said:


> its a fundamental shift and good from that respect. Just concerned at now having 2 classes of brewers and the impact on someone like St Peters, Five Islands, Queens Wharf who are small producers such changes would be positive for.
> 
> Scotty



Not quite sure if I understand what you are saying there Scotty. Brewers like the ones you have listed positive in that it should open up new markets for them in the shape of a lot more smaller licencees taking up these licences or negative in the fact they don't have their own licenced premises to offer their wares from.


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## PostModern (11/12/07)

floppinab said:


> Not quite sure if I understand what you are saying there Scotty. Brewers like the ones you have listed positive in that it should open up new markets for them in the shape of a lot more smaller licencees taking up these licences or negative in the fact they don't have their own licenced premises to offer their wares from.



I was talking to Scotty about this the other day. The problem is that they are in metro areas, so can't benefit as the clause specifies "Small-scale producers of beer, spirits etc in non-metropolitan areas". Sure they'll benefit from increased small venues selling their product, but they can't retail from their own premises.


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## Thirsty Boy (11/12/07)

Thats a bit of tough luck for breweries that happen to be located in a metropolitan area. I'm not sure how it goes inother areas, but if that legislation was applied to Melbourne (which I know it isn't) it would not give the ability to offer tastes or cellar door sales to at least 4 or 5 different micros.

Its urbanist is that bill 

Still, its got to be great news for the rural micros


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## chovain (11/12/07)

I think the "non-metro" clause is intended to make things fairer for the country brewers, rather than take anything away from the city brewers. 

City brewers will get a huge advantage out of the new general licences - they should find it relatively easy to market to the new licensees directly, I imagine. Licensees would be insane not to put some unusual beers on their menu.

Country brewers can't really do that, as it's unlikely there'll be too many new licensees popping up in small towns for them to market to.

Don't forget all brewers are going to be allowed to charge for on-premise tasting now, too.

Edit: The point I'm trying to make (which got lost somewhere along the way) is that this change is giving country brewers something new that they didn't get before. They get a free partial off-license for their own beers is a new feature of the legistlation. There's nothing stopping other brewers from applying for a full off-license, or continuing using one if they already have one.


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## /// (11/12/07)

Mark Chovain said:


> I think the "non-metro" clause is intended to make things fairer for the country brewers, rather than take anything away from the city brewers.
> 
> City brewers will get a huge advantage out of the new general licences - they should find it relatively easy to market to the new licensees directly, I imagine. Licensees would be insane not to put some unusual beers on their menu.
> 
> ...




And I think your right there. The changes came from the consultative process of submissions made to the Minister. The main thrust for the regional brewers is to foster business in regional area's as has been allowed to wine makers. There are not many wine makers in industrial buildings in the urban area's thankfully...

Scotty


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## Ducatiboy stu (11/12/07)

Yeah

I winery style license for Brewers, which makes sense. You can sell only YOUR own beer from your premises.  

Unfortunatly, the only problem that I can see is that there will be a period where the granting of a regional brewers license will have to go thru a period of " Umm...yeah..we have new legislation now...exactly how does it work....." as it will also affect the way councils deal with DA for regional breweries..only (hopefully ) in respect to traffic,parking, social impact etc

I know my council where at a loss to with how to process my application, but what I did manage to do ( after some positive discussions ) was to get an approval that allowed me to do it as a "cottage" based industry. This allowed me to use my shed ( no bigger than a double carport ) on land that was not designated for the purpose of a brewery...but generally they where very supportive


Unfortunatly 2 small monsters ( love em as I do ) slowed my plans right down...


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## facter (12/12/07)

anyone have any info on doing this in WA?


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## tk75 (12/12/07)

facter said:


> anyone have any info on doing this in WA?



Check here - http://www.rgl.wa.gov.au/Default.aspx?cat=Liquor


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## ham2k (18/12/07)

Thommo said:


> Found this on Amazon. Won't help you with the finer details about our legal system, etc, but I reckon it would be a good read all the same.
> 
> Link
> 
> ...



Saw this book yesterday in Dymocks. It was the one on George St near Wynyard - $140 tho.


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## Fatgodzilla (18/12/07)

/// said:


> And I think your right there. The changes came from the consultative process of submissions made to the Minister. The main thrust for the regional brewers is to foster business in regional area's as has been allowed to wine makers. There are not many wine makers in industrial buildings in the urban area's thankfully...
> 
> Scotty




In essence then, does that sound like an existing small regional pub would have a walk up start to brew and sell its own brew ? (forget the pressure that the majors may try to influence) ? 30,000 litres = 600 kegs p.a. which is about right for this pub (that's why its closed). But tremendous potential for food / accomodation services that would greatly influence its profitability. 

So (in theory) do they have a good case ?


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## floppinab (18/12/07)

Fatgodzilla said:


> In essence then, does that sound like an existing small regional pub would have a walk up start to brew and sell its own brew ? (forget the pressure that the majors may try to influence) ? 30,000 litres = 600 kegs p.a. which is about right for this pub (that's why its closed). But tremendous potential for food / accomodation services that would greatly influence its profitability.



I don't think the story has changed for existing licencees. They already have the licence to sell alcohol, food, accomodation etc. under their existing terms. The process they need to go through if they wanted to brew on premises hasn't changed although you would expect that if they are a pub getting the local council approval should be easier compared to if you were starting from scratch.

I think the impact is more on existing or new regional brewers looking to sell from their brewery.


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## Akuna (11/2/08)

BOG said:


> I've been searching everywhere and cannot find a documented process to follow to become a MicroBrewery.
> 
> At this point I'm not concerned about the business case, that will follow. (But if anyone has one I'd love to see the numbers)
> 
> ...



Hi! We have a microbrewery at Mona Vale - just down the road. Akuna Brewery see www.akunabrewery.com.au pop in if you want any help. Cheers Ali


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## Hugo (28/3/08)

'Tis the dream of every dedicated brewer to share the fruits of our labour with the world!

Ignoring the physical costs of the microbrewery and assuming you can negotiate the approval process without lawyers, does anyone know the "ball-park" administrative costs of the process? i.e. The licenses, application fees etc. (NSW if available).

cheers


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## bigfridge (28/3/08)

Hugo said:


> 'Tis the dream of every dedicated brewer to share the fruits of our labour with the world!
> 
> Ignoring the physical costs of the microbrewery and assuming you can negotiate the approval process without lawyers, does anyone know the "ball-park" administrative costs of the process? i.e. The licenses, application fees etc. (NSW if available).
> 
> cheers



At a rough guess $20,000 - $30,000 not counting time spent and lost wages.

But you should talk to your local council (DA, Const. Cert, Waste, Fire certificates), DLGR (Brewers License) and ATO (Excise license including tank calibration, site plans, documentation review and site audit).

Also allow 1-2 years for the time spent at the Councils building counter, attending the Licensing Court at least 3-4 times and numerous forms to fill out for the ATO (including a criminal check).

David


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## Chad (5/5/08)

Just curious if anyone has looked into this in QLD/Brisbane, particularly as a part-time hobby/venture in the order of roughly 10,000 litres?


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## Mitternacht Brauer (12/6/08)

Have tried several searches but have had no luck . Does any one remember or know the location of a ATO tax thread about six months ago ? It related to the new threashold for micro breweries . If anyone can remember I'd be mighty grateful .


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## Ducatiboy stu (13/6/08)

look on the ATO web site, search for alcohol, it will be in there


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## Mitternacht Brauer (13/6/08)

That was my second port of call ,after searching here for an hour . It was talked about in a thread here for a while but I can't seem to find it .Thanks anyway .


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## bigfridge (13/6/08)

buster3931 said:


> That was my second port of call ,after searching here for an hour . It was talked about in a thread here for a while but I can't seem to find it .Thanks anyway .



Ducatiboy stu's advice seemed pretty straightforward to me.

But if you need it spelt out:

Go to:

http://ato.gov.au then select 'Business', then 'Excise' - and you are there.


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## Benniee (13/6/08)

I think one other thing to think about is how much you will need to sell your product for in order to break even.

No one wants to work for free - and as the "owner" of the brewery I'm sure you'd like it to grow to a size that can support a couple of employees to do the grunt work.

So, factor in the price of all ingredients, consumables like bottles - packaging - water - gas, transport etc. Then work out a time input from you (and/or employees) and see what the break even price is. Then add in your profit margin and I think it'll be right up there.

This may or may not be a big problem depending on how much product you expect to sell. Around a year or two ago I ran through a similar exercise and worked out that as much as people may love the beer - it's unlikely they'll shell out really big dollars on a regular basis.

It is certainly a business model geared toward really, really big brewing volumes with very little margin on each bottle.

I don't want to sound like a wet blanket - and really the micros that set up now are pioneers in the industry and deserve a great deal of kudos. I wish them every bit of success, and where possible I try to get the odd 6 pack as gifts for people (and myself) a couple of times a year.

Benniee


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## benarnot (10/5/10)

You can sell only YOUR own beer from your premises.  

Unfortunatly, the only problem that I can see is that there will be a period where the granting of a regional brewers license will have to go thru a period of " Umm...yeah..we have new legislation now...exactly how does it work....." as it will also affect the way councils deal with DA for regional breweries..only (hopefully ) in respect to traffic,parking, social impact etc

I know my council where at a loss to with how to process my application, but what I did manage to do ( after some positive discussions ) was to get an approval that allowed me to do it as a "cottage" based industry. This allowed me to use my shed ( no bigger than a double carport ) on land that was not designated for the purpose of a brewery...but generally they where very supportive


This kind of thing sounds like what I'm looking for. Just brewing in my garage and legally selling to folks from work, friends, friends of friends etc. Anybody done this on the Gold Coast? 

Cheers


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## manticle (10/5/10)

Old thread but:

A number of people, when they find out my passion for homebrewing and realise it involves more than opening a tin, ask me when I'm opening a microbrewery. All legalities aside there are a number of reasons why I wouldn't want to sell my beer. Worthy of consideration, at least some of them:

1. I can brew whatever I want, whenever I want - ESB, porter, tripel, APA, sour beer cider, non style specific experiement etc.
2. Not every brew I make is even worth being given away let alone sold. That's a luxury I can afford. As a business maybe not so. Even if I brew the same beer again, consistency is not something I have yet nailed down everytime without fail.
3. As passionate about brewing as I am, there are times when I can't. As a business I wuld have to.
4. I like giving things away that I'm proud of. I used to work as a chef and I'm fairly proud of many of the different dishes that I've cooked. I don't see them as a financial avenue. When I invite friends around for dinner, I get pleasure from their reaction to the food, not financial gain or motive

None of this is intended to take away from the homebrewers who have taken that step (eg kooinda). Those guys have made a great step and make great beer. Just my thoughts pertaining to my brewing.


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## damianjthorpe (7/1/12)

G'day Brewers,

Try this ATO link: http://www.ato.gov.au/content/29520.htm


Cheers and happy brewing,
Damo


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## Muscovy_333 (7/1/12)

I read somewhere that for the many that fail, the ventures that have been successful have been on the back of a sound "cellar door" experience to build their brand. I.e. Good food, good environment and gently educating their market to try something new from their range. Something to consider?? Perhaps a good social venue to get the punters in without relying on the beer to do all the work given that different people have vastly different likes and dislikes when it comes to beer.
It is certainly the general experience I have had at the micros i have been to.


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## Thefatdoghead (7/1/12)

manticle said:


> Old thread but:
> 
> A number of people, when they find out my passion for homebrewing and realise it involves more than opening a tin, ask me when I'm opening a microbrewery. All legalities aside there are a number of reasons why I wouldn't want to sell my beer. Worthy of consideration, at least some of them:
> 
> ...


I'm not a chef but my family and friends and some blow'ins say my cooking aint to shabby but I know exactly what your talking about when you say you get pleasure from peoples reactions to food! Im sure you get the same with your homebrew. I only had that reaction off my old man with my homebrew so far but the man don't lie when he likes something he means it all bias aside. He said I quote "How the **** am I going to drink that shit they sell at the bootl'o now"!? He moved away caravanning and hasn't touched beer since but I do believe he is getting into his red's. 
Point is I absolutely love your attitude towards homebrew and how people take it....awesome


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## jimmychill (13/1/12)

Thirsty Boy said:


> At work there are excise counters on the packaging lines ... once a carton of finished beer goes through the counter, excise must be paid. Before the counter.. nope.
> 
> The tax guys always want to move the counter further back up the line, the brewery wants it as close to the end as possible.. result, they are about 15 or so meters before the palletisers.
> 
> ...


 
Who is the AHB member? I would like to ask 'em a few questions. 100-300L sounds like a nice small place to start.


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## shaunous (2/8/12)

Hi BOG,
How did you go with all this? Did you eventually get all set up and brewing??

Cheers,
Shaun...


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