# Fermzilla



## Nullnvoid

I was lucky enough to grab one of these bad boys in the first round. Got it going a couple days after getting it so haven't finished a batch yet. 

Might be good to have a discussion thread on these (let's see if we can at least make it to 10 replies before the thread turns to sh1t)

Here are a couple photos. Please excuse the state of the fridge. I need to clean it.


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## malt and barley blues

This is more like it, will give us a good idea how many are in circulation.


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## Nullnvoid

Questions I have, that I guess can relate to any vessel like this.

1) I don't know when you remove the trub. I did it after about day 5, before the yeast started dropping out (Took a few days to get up to temp and the yeast to get going)

2) I want to dry hop in a day or two, so do I remember the yeast I have collect and add the hops and refit the collection vessel, or do I just go in through the top like I ordinarily would have.

3) When dry hopping, do you just put the yeast in the bottom and that's enough to permeate through?


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## wide eyed and legless

Nullnvoid said:


> Questions I have, that I guess can relate to any vessel like this.
> 
> 1) I don't know when you remove the trub. I did it after about day 5, before the yeast started dropping out (Took a few days to get up to temp and the yeast to get going)
> 
> 2) I want to dry hop in a day or two, so do I remember the yeast I have collect and add the hops and refit the collection vessel, or do I just go in through the top like I ordinarily would have.
> 
> 3) When dry hopping, do you just put the yeast in the bottom and that's enough to permeate through?


DON'T let the trub into the fermenter, as you are not pressure fermenting put them in the top, leave the yeast in the cone.


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## Half-baked

I feel guilty saying this, but the Fermzilla was a bit of an impulse buy for me. Had decided to go with the Guten fermenter, but it was out of stock. Happened to be looking at this forum when news broke, I managed to get one first release. Am quite happy with it so far! (And before anyone spruiks the benefits of stainless over plastic, I'll add it probably won't preclude me from getting a stainless conical down the track.)

I'm six days into my first fermentation, yeast has begun to flocculate and my collection jar is pretty full. Will remove tonight, but am wary about re-attaching.

If I do reattach, I'll basically do using the same principles as a counter-pressure bottle filler. It'd involve:

attaching a carb cap to the jar, attach jar to bottom of unit, purge with CO2, then under a small amt of pressure feeding the beer out through the floating dip tube into the jar via the carb cap
gently loosen jar from the fermenter to allow CO2 to gradually escape out the lid
when full, tighten the jar and open butterfly valve.
But I'm conscious that'll let in a small amt of O2.

Pretty sure the benefits of collecting additional trub won't be greater than the risks of additional O2, but interested in the views of others...


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## Nullnvoid

Half-baked said:


> I feel guilty saying this, but the Fermzilla was a bit of an impulse buy for me. Had decided to go with the Guten fermenter, but it was out of stock. Happened to be looking at this forum when news broke, I managed to get one first release. Am quite happy with it so far! (And before anyone spruiks the benefits of stainless over plastic, I'll add it probably won't preclude me from getting a stainless conical down the track.)
> 
> I'm six days into my first fermentation, yeast has begun to flocculate and my collection jar is pretty full. Will remove tonight, but am wary about re-attaching.
> 
> If I do reattach, I'll basically do using the same principles as a counter-pressure bottle filler. It'd involve:
> 
> attaching a carb cap to the jar, attach jar to bottom of unit, purge with CO2, then under a small amt of pressure feeding the beer out through the floating dip tube into the jar via the carb cap
> gently loosen jar from the fermenter to allow CO2 to gradually escape out the lid
> when full, tighten the jar and open butterfly valve.
> But I'm conscious that'll let in a small amt of O2.
> 
> Pretty sure the benefits of collecting additional trub won't be greater than the risks of additional O2, but interested in the views of others...



The purchase for me too was a bit of an impulse buy, wanted to buy one eventually, but saw them up and had the exact right amount of money and having had a couple of beers, I was in a impulsive mood 

What you have listed above is exactly what I did to remove the trub so I could collect yeast, ie have a clear container, except I didnt loosen the jar and so there was a giant C02 explosion when I opened the butterfly valve and the airlock almost blew out the top. So a lessen learnt for next time. It seemed to work ok despite that little oversight, and one I won't do again.

I am also keep to hear the views of others.


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## wide eyed and legless

Half-baked said:


> I feel guilty saying this, but the Fermzilla was a bit of an impulse buy for me. Had decided to go with the Guten fermenter, but it was out of stock. Happened to be looking at this forum when news broke, I managed to get one first release. Am quite happy with it so far! (And before anyone spruiks the benefits of stainless over plastic, I'll add it probably won't preclude me from getting a stainless conical down the track.)
> 
> I'm six days into my first fermentation, yeast has begun to flocculate and my collection jar is pretty full. Will remove tonight, but am wary about re-attaching.
> 
> If I do reattach, I'll basically do using the same principles as a counter-pressure bottle filler. It'd involve:
> 
> attaching a carb cap to the jar, attach jar to bottom of unit, purge with CO2, then under a small amt of pressure feeding the beer out through the floating dip tube into the jar via the carb cap
> gently loosen jar from the fermenter to allow CO2 to gradually escape out the lid
> when full, tighten the jar and open butterfly valve.
> But I'm conscious that'll let in a small amt of O2.
> 
> Pretty sure the benefits of collecting additional trub won't be greater than the risks of additional O2, but interested in the views of others...


As I mentioned before it is better to leave the trub in the kettle, it can get messy trying to remove trub from a conical. I was flying blind with a conical but it made sense to do what the pro brewers do and that is leave the yeast cake in the fermenter and harvest after the beer has been removed. Dropping the yeast can mean a loss of what we are making, beer. 
Run the beer off through a siphon if you haven't got a pressure kit or if you have the pressure kit do a pressure transfer. Harvest the yeast after the beer has been removed.


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## sixfignig

malt and barley blues said:


> This is more like it, will give us a good idea how many are in circulation.


You have a mental illness.


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## Cian Doyle

sixfignig said:


> You have a mental illness.


I think it's remarks like that which put people off coming on this site, if you can't be civil keep your opinions to yourself.


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## Nullnvoid

Hmm didn't quite make 10 replies....


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## Budron

wide eyed and legless said:


> As I mentioned before it is better to leave the trub in the kettle, it can get messy trying to remove trub from a conical. I was flying blind with a conical but it made sense to do what the pro brewers do and that is leave the yeast cake in the fermenter and harvest after the beer has been removed. Dropping the yeast can mean a loss of what we are making, beer.
> Run the beer off through a siphon if you haven't got a pressure kit or if you have the pressure kit do a pressure transfer. Harvest the yeast after the beer has been removed.




This all makes sense WEAL, but will take away 1 of the things I was really looking forward to with using this Fermzilla, which is rousing up after my dry hop additions to get full utilisation out of this dry hop process. My plan was to dump the yeast after fermentation is basically done, and then replace the collection bottle with the dry hops which have been purged with co2. After a few days hook up the co2 to the collection bottle via a carbonation cap/post and rouse the hops off the bottom and get them flowing about again.

I guess I could leave the yeast in the bottle, dry hop through the top & rouse co2 through the beer out post & dip tube. Has anyone done this with the version 1? Would it disturb the yeast too much?

P.S. I love our man Jasper! Keep Drinkin'!


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## wide eyed and legless

Why not just dry hop in the keg, purge your keg with the vacating gas, and transfer a clean beer direct onto the hops. Then harvest your yeast, simple and no mess.


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## shacked

wide eyed and legless said:


> Why not just dry hop in the keg, purge your keg with the vacating gas, and transfer a clean beer direct onto the hops. Then harvest your yeast, simple and no mess.



This is the play. I've been using this of late: https://www.kegland.com.au/stainless-steel-hop-tube.html it's awesome. Currently packed with 250g of toasted coconut in a porter keg. Only slight modification is to shorten the chain so it is suspended in the keg rather than sitting on the bottom (I had dispensing issues with it on the bottom).


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## Budron

I have tried dry hopping in the keg before, but I much prefer to keep it all in the fermenter. I know there is a lot of conflicting info out there, but I don't really like the idea of dry hopping at the cooler temps. 

I was under the presumption that unitanks with racking arms etc with the ability to dump your yeast off at certain points in the fermentation process was the ideal scenario and basically what people try to emulate when they rack to a secondary fermenter anyway(to get their beer off the yeast cake).


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## Truman42

I wanted to buy one of these but they were out of stock. So then wanted to buy a Guten but they were also out of stock. Ended up buying a SS Brewtech chronical for a lot more money but it will last me a lifetime. Might still get one of these as a second fermenter though because once you go conical...... Just got to see if it fits in a small bar fridge.


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## Schikitar

Budron said:


> My plan was to dump the yeast after fermentation is basically done, and then replace the collection bottle with the dry hops which have been purged with co2.


..and this is probably all you really need to do, rousing the hops after they've done their thing (eg. released their oils) is really not needed unless there is a blockage that has prevented the hops from rising and falling. THe Gen 1 was a little notorious for this but I'm hoping it's much better in Gen 2. 

Waiting for my units to arrive!


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## Half-baked

Truman42 said:


> Just got to see if it fits in a small bar fridge.



From a width perspective, if you can fit in a full size keg you should be right. My guess is that height would need to be a bit bigger than a keg... 

You’d want a pretty big bar fridge!


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## Truman42

Half-baked said:


> From a width perspective, if you can fit in a full size keg you should be right. My guess is that height would need to be a bit bigger than a keg...
> 
> You’d want a pretty big bar fridge!


Thats what Im concerned about. Does anyone have the dimensions handy?


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## Half-baked

400mm across by 805 high. 

From KL website:  http://www.kegland.com.au/media/images/FermZilla_27l_edges.svg


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## wide eyed and legless

[QUOTE="Budron, post: 1537494, member: 11922"have tried dry hopping in the keg before, but I much prefer to keep it all in the fermenter. I know there is a lot of ]
I was under the presumption that unitanks with racking arms etc with the ability to dump your yeast off at certain points in the fermentation process was the ideal scenario and basically what people try to emulate when they rack to a secondary fermenter anyway(to get their beer off the yeast cake).[/QUOTE]
The real purpose of the dump valve is to dump the trub, the racking arm is above the yeast bed, dump the yeast and you lose the beer which has displaced the yeast as it is below the racking arm.
I have posted this before in the Fermentasaurus thread.
https://ssbrewtech.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202956495-More-on-dumping-trub-from-a-Chronical


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## Budron

> The real purpose of the dump valve is to dump the trub, the racking arm is above the yeast bed, dump the yeast and you lose the beer which has displaced the yeast as it is below the racking arm.
> I have posted this before in the Fermentasaurus thread.
> https://ssbrewtech.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/202956495-More-on-dumping-trub-from-a-Chronical



If you are talking about a commercial unitank, there is a rotating arm on the inside of the of the racking arm allowing you to do as the name suggests and rotate it around until you pick up the hop trub and some of the left over extra yeast which has settled out. This allows for the absolute minimal wastage possible. The video you posted shows this perfectly. 

Going back to our man Jasper, at the start of the below video he states getting the yeast off the bottom of the beer as soon as possible is best.


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## wide eyed and legless

Budron said:


> If you are talking about a commercial unitank, there is a rotating arm on the inside of the of the racking arm allowing you to do as the name suggests and rotate it around until you pick up the hop trub and some of the left over extra yeast which has settled out. This allows for the absolute minimal wastage possible. The video you posted shows this perfectly.
> 
> Going back to our man Jasper, at the start of the below video he states getting the yeast off the bottom of the beer as soon as possible is best.



I think what you will find is that Jasper is going to dry hop, the pro brewers cold crash and crop the yeast before dry hopping. The previous video where they took the beer off the yeast they would be dumping the yeast.

This is what not to do.





Different strata of yeast and trub. Its a messy way of doing things, then there is the cleaning involved of the butterfly valve


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## Vic

shacked said:


> This is the play. I've been using this of late: https://www.kegland.com.au/stainless-steel-hop-tube.html it's awesome. Currently packed with 250g of toasted coconut in a porter keg. Only slight modification is to shorten the chain so it is suspended in the keg rather than sitting on the bottom (I had dispensing issues with it on the bottom).


After using the hop tube, how do you clean the chain? Each ball of the chain is hollow and will be full of what ever it was immersed in.


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## Reg Holt

I dry hop with the nylon tea bags 3,4 or 5 depending on the amount of hops, purged in the keg with the CO2 . Keeps the hops contained while releasing the flavour.

https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?...0.Xtea+bags.TRS0&_nkw=empty+tea+bags&_sacat=0


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## Fro-Daddy

wide eyed and legless said:


> This is what not to do.


Can you please provide some feedback on this?

I was dry hopping early during active fermentation so I didn't/couldn't drop the yeast.
I figured the collection ball was pretty useless with a 200g dry hop so didn't attempt anything.

The recipe is here for reference https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/817962/hop-monster-comp-neipl


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## shacked

Vic said:


> After using the hop tube, how do you clean the chain? Each ball of the chain is hollow and will be full of what ever it was immersed in.



Boil in HLT full of water for 10 mins, let it cool a little, add PBW, leave for an hour or so, rinse, then leave to dry out.


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## wide eyed and legless

Fro-Daddy said:


> Can you please provide some feedback on this?
> 
> I was dry hopping early during active fermentation so I didn't/couldn't drop the yeast.
> I figured the collection ball was pretty useless with a 200g dry hop so didn't attempt anything.
> 
> The recipe is here for reference https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/817962/hop-monster-comp-neipl


It is about what can happen dry hopping over the yeast, looks like it was still fermenting when you dry hopped. As I mentioned in my post previously the pro brewers remove the yeast prior to dry hopping, 3 days as in your recipe the yeast should be finished.
Not having a shot at you, just an indication of the mess dry hopping makes when put in with fermenting yeast.


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## awfulknauful

So got my Fermzilla thanks to Bbowzky1, much appreciated mate, (this is someone who should give a bit more time to post on here) took it along to our club meet for the unveiling everyone was in anticipation to get their first view.
1) Big tick of approval the large diameter opening.
2) Big tick of approval the larger dump valve, although most thought it was a bit of over kill.
3) Unfortunately there were 2 large scratches on the outside of the body, don't know if it is PET or plastic, I doubt whether they were deep enough to cause any problem fermenting under pressure just that I was expecting a pristine finish on a new product.
4) The seal at the bottom of the fermenter looks like black rubber, obviously I doubt that it is but maybe KL could confirm what the material is.
5) The most disappointing of the reveal, a dent in the PET or whatever the material is at the bottom of the fermenter. No damage on the box so looks like it was boxed with dent, don't know if it was from the process of the blow moulding or the attaching of the fittings.
Anyone else found a similar problem with denting?


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## Reg Holt

I can see the dent, can't see any scratches, could it be vacuum that has caused the dent? Maybe some warm water could draw it out.


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## Budron

wide eyed and legless said:


> I think what you will find is that Jasper is going to dry hop, the pro brewers cold crash and crop the yeast before dry hopping. The previous video where they took the beer off the yeast they would be dumping the yeast.



Can I ask which pro brewers? Where are you getting your info from? 

Again our man Jasper will explain when to dump and why. From about 1-4mins


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## chesl73

With these vessels, how do you take a sample for your hydrometer?


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## Half-baked

When you have the pressure kit, apply a small amount of pressure, draw sample through the liquid out post. 

When you don’t, siphon/wine thief I guess


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## wide eyed and legless

Budron said:


> Can I ask which pro brewers? Where are you getting your info from? ]


 Pro Brewer website has a wealth of information.
Technology of brewing and malting is an excellent book by Wolfgang Kunze


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## Schikitar

Took delivery today of two Fermzilla's (one for me and the other for my brother), just gotta keg the strawberry stout I have in the gen1 fermntasaurus so I can make way for this little fella in my fermenting fridge!


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## boriskov

Do these fit in the series 4 fridges?


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## awfulknauful

boriskov said:


> Do these fit in the series 4 fridges?


No, 


Schikitar said:


> Took delivery today of two Fermzilla's (one for me and the other for my brother), just gotta keg the strawberry stout I have in the gen1 fermntasaurus so I can make way for this little fella in my fermenting fridge!


Was either of them dented?


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## Schikitar

awfulknauful said:


> Was either of them dented?


No, both are in good condition no scratches or dents. That said, the stands were poking out of both cardboard boxes (one worse than the other), they should probably wrap the top ring of the stand in something protective as the PET 'bottle' just rattles around inside of it and that's only covered by a thin plastic bag which doesn't offer much protection. Packed on the cheaper side for sure, not that I'm a fan of excess packaging but yeah, room for improvement..


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## awfulknauful

That's what is odd about this one, no damage whatsoever on the box but 2 big scratches and a dent so obviously packed that way.


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## wide eyed and legless

awfulknauful said:


> That's what is odd about this one, no damage whatsoever on the box but 2 big scratches and a dent so obviously packed that way.


So try a ferment in it Mr Howard, it may blow the dent out.


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## donald_trub

I could've sworn Gash's unboxing video had a dent in his one, but he didn't mention it.


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## Nullnvoid

donald_trub said:


> I could've sworn Gash's unboxing video had a dent in his one, but he didn't mention it.



Link?


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## Schikitar

Nullnvoid said:


> Link?


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## awfulknauful

I was fairly sure that it had come from the manufacturing process, its hard to put a dent in them manually, at least mine only has one, the unboxing video has several.


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## ABG

awfulknauful said:


> I was fairly sure that it had come from the manufacturing process, its hard to put a dent in them manually, at least mine only has one, the unboxing video has several.


Won't these just pop out the second you ferment under pressure? Interested to hear your experience after you use it. I can't say that any of the dents in the unboxing video would worry me unduly, but I understand everyone is different. For me, there's just so much clever design that's gone into these that I can't wait to get my hands on one. Sadly, I'm one of the multitude who missed out on the first couple of releases. I'm now at the point where I think I'll wait for the more temperature resistant material - I like the idea of being able to use boiling/near boiling water for sanitising and cleaning.


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## wide eyed and legless

If the air isn't vacating the die and pockets of air get trapped while the PET is being formed it will stay that way, still should be usable. Could be something else, maybe someone with the experience in the field could comment.
I have had a sucked in Snub nose when I forgot to open the valve connecting the breather while cold crashing, that just popped back out to its original shape.


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## FarsideOfCrazy

Like weal mentioned if the pet has been molded with a dent it won't pop out. It's not like a dent that has been put in it with use that will pop out. These dents are probably being let through as they are still usable as it will not have a detrimental effect on the unit working. Being a new manufacturer they will working out the kinks like oxbar when they made the original fermentasaurus. KK used to sell the imperfect tanks cheaper as a replacement if you needed a new tank.


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## wide eyed and legless

donald_trub said:


> I could've sworn Gash's unboxing video had a dent in his one, but he didn't mention it.


He wouldn't, probably getting paid to promote it, I think the Aussie home brewer would probably more forgiving than a European or American home brewer who could be more inclined to return it if it wasn't aesthetically appealing.


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## SpaceClef

awfulknauful said:


> So got my Fermzilla thanks to Bbowzky1, much appreciated mate, (this is someone who should give a bit more time to post on here) took it along to our club meet for the unveiling everyone was in anticipation to get their first view.
> 1) Big tick of approval the large diameter opening.
> 2) Big tick of approval the larger dump valve, although most thought it was a bit of over kill.
> 3) Unfortunately there were 2 large scratches on the outside of the body, don't know if it is PET or plastic, I doubt whether they were deep enough to cause any problem fermenting under pressure just that I was expecting a pristine finish on a new product.
> 4) The seal at the bottom of the fermenter looks like black rubber, obviously I doubt that it is but maybe KL could confirm what the material is.
> 5) The most disappointing of the reveal, a dent in the PET or whatever the material is at the bottom of the fermenter. No damage on the box so looks like it was boxed with dent, don't know if it was from the process of the blow moulding or the attaching of the fittings.
> Anyone else found a similar problem with denting?
> View attachment 115994


Yep, unboxed mine on the weekend and it has a decent sized dent on the bottom conical side. Not sure if it has something to do with the fact it was basically just sitting loosely on the collection bottle in the box. The box had a pretty serious dent in the top corner too before I picked it up so I assume there was pressure on the top of the fermenter whilst transporting and it’s pushed it down against the collection bottle.







Edit: it has three smaller dents at other points in the fermenter but not close to as bad as the one pictured


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## awfulknauful

I think this is going to become a serious problem, for the fermzilla. I could live with mine but something like yours does look gross, even more so if you have other smaller dents. It really is starting to look like the quality is really lacking.


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## Half-baked

Has anyone tried to return? If mine had been dented I’d be pretty annoyed...

Sure you can ferment in it but for the one @SpaceChef has the volume calibration will be a decent amount off (as well as overall volume being less than advertised)


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## DaFooze

Budron said:


> This all makes sense WEAL, but will take away 1 of the things I was really looking forward to with using this Fermzilla, which is rousing up after my dry hop additions to get full utilisation out of this dry hop process. My plan was to dump the yeast after fermentation is basically done, and then replace the collection bottle with the dry hops which have been purged with co2. After a few days hook up the co2 to the collection bottle via a carbonation cap/post and rouse the hops off the bottom and get them flowing about again.
> 
> I guess I could leave the yeast in the bottle, dry hop through the top & rouse co2 through the beer out post & dip tube. Has anyone done this with the version 1? Would it disturb the yeast too much?
> 
> P.S. I love our man Jasper! Keep Drinkin'!




What you are planning is a great way to use the Fermzilla and it's bottle. I've always waited until fermentation is done, close the valve, release some pressure out of bottle, remove bottle, add dry hops, purge bottle with CO2, open valve. The beer and dry hops will gather together in a great display of joining and become one.... ;-)


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## FarsideOfCrazy

SpaceClef said:


> Yep, unboxed mine on the weekend and it has a decent sized dent on the bottom conical side. Not sure if it has something to do with the fact it was basically just sitting loosely on the collection bottle in the box. The box had a pretty serious dent in the top corner too before I picked it up so I assume there was pressure on the top of the fermenter whilst transporting and it’s pushed it down against the collection bottle.
> 
> View attachment 116030
> 
> 
> Edit: it has three smaller dents at other points in the fermenter but not close to as bad as the one pictured


 That is pretty crap. What have KL said?


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## Grok

If that was me, I'd use a hair dryer very gently playing upon the surface with a small amount of positive air pressure inside to gently bring out the dent. Plastic is pliable as it warms and can be made to do all sorts of things, but care is needed. Have a cooling cloth ready to arrest the process at the right moment.


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## SpaceClef

Half-baked said:


> Has anyone tried to return? If mine had been dented I’d be pretty annoyed...
> 
> Sure you can ferment in it but for the one @SpaceChef has the volume calibration will be a decent amount off (as well as overall volume being less than advertised)


I emailed them the pics yesterday and they said it’s the “reality of shipping thin-walled vessels”, the fermenters are “designed to endure minor deformations such as this”, and “all small dents will push out and settle with use and positive pressure”. Apparently (the flimsiness?) is a necessary design so that they can withstand suction during cold crash. 

I haven’t tried pushing it back out yet but I can’t imagine it will simply go back to its original form


FarsideOfCrazy said:


> That is pretty crap. What have KL said?


See above. They don’t seem too fussed and certainly not offering a replacement.


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## awfulknauful

The thing is they are coming out of undamged boxes with dents so saying is is transport is rubbish, once you have used it they can say, you have used it not our responsibility. I don,t want to part with good money and start trying to fix it with a hair dryer and pressure, this is a manufacturing fault that should have been addressed before releasing them. I also have a fermentasaurus which even with a bit of abuse is still flawless and I have never heard of them being uboxed and rewarding the purchaser with a dent.


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## Schikitar

If they know they are susceptible to damage via transport then simply pack them better, pretty poor form and response.. if mine came out like that I wouldn't be happy..


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## KegLand-com-au

awfulknauful said:


> So got my Fermzilla thanks to Bbowzky1, much appreciated mate, (this is someone who should give a bit more time to post on here) took it along to our club meet for the unveiling everyone was in anticipation to get their first view.
> 1) Big tick of approval the large diameter opening.
> 2) Big tick of approval the larger dump valve, although most thought it was a bit of over kill.
> 3) Unfortunately there were 2 large scratches on the outside of the body, don't know if it is PET or plastic, I doubt whether they were deep enough to cause any problem fermenting under pressure just that I was expecting a pristine finish on a new product.
> 4) The seal at the bottom of the fermenter looks like black rubber, obviously I doubt that it is but maybe KL could confirm what the material is.
> 5) The most disappointing of the reveal, a dent in the PET or whatever the material is at the bottom of the fermenter. No damage on the box so looks like it was boxed with dent, don't know if it was from the process of the blow moulding or the attaching of the fittings.
> Anyone else found a similar problem with denting?
> View attachment 115994



Sorry we did not even know about this thread until today so sorry it's taken a while to get back to you guys on this one.

Firstly - Thanks for the feedback. If the scratch is significant please bring the tank back to us and we will replace it for you. It's unlikely to have any impact on the usability or safety of the product. We test even unit with significantly more pressure than the 2.5bar working pressure so we are confident all new tanks are pressure rated accordingly. With that said in about 5 weeks we get a bunch of spare replacement tanks and we would be happy to swap it over for you if you like.

The black seal at the bottom in the butterfly part of the valve and also the cone shaped seal is made from EPDM. We have started to use more and more EPDM these days on many of the seals that we use. It's not a cheap compound however it doesn't perish like many other rubber compounds, it's got low gas transmission rate and it's also extremely good with respect to chemical resistance and this has been increasingly more important as we get people use these fermenters for many other products other than just beer.


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## KegLand-com-au

Schikitar said:


> No, both are in good condition no scratches or dents. That said, the stands were poking out of both cardboard boxes (one worse than the other), they should probably wrap the top ring of the stand in something protective as the PET 'bottle' just rattles around inside of it and that's only covered by a thin plastic bag which doesn't offer much protection. Packed on the cheaper side for sure, not that I'm a fan of excess packaging but yeah, room for improvement..



No worries. We will discuss this tomorrow. If you have any specific ideas on ways we can improve then please email us [email protected]. We always like to get feedback on how we can make the products better.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

SpaceClef said:


> I emailed them the pics yesterday and they said it’s the “reality of shipping thin-walled vessels”, the fermenters are “designed to endure minor deformations such as this”, and “all small dents will push out and settle with use and positive pressure”. Apparently (the flimsiness?) is a necessary design so that they can withstand suction during cold crash.
> 
> I haven’t tried pushing it back out yet but I can’t imagine it will simply go back to its original form
> 
> See above. They don’t seem too fussed and certainly not offering a replacement.



The fermenter bodies are made from PET and like all PET injection stretch blown products we have real limitations on the thickness in the walls that can be achieved due to the blow moulding process. With that said the nice thing about PET is that it will pop back into shape once you get some pressure inside the tank. If it's a really bad dent then you can fill the tank with hot water (at 50C) put the tank under small mount of pressure (about 10psi) and let the tank cool down to room temperature. The tank will look like new after this process.

With that said if this process is not amenable to you then we would be happy to exchange the tank. At the end of the day our goal is to ensure customer satisfaction and bring you guys awesome products that work great and help you guys make award winning beers. So if you feel that these objectives are not met then contact us immediately. Our email is [email protected] and you can call us on +61390187935


----------



## awfulknauful

Tried the warm water with some pressure and the dent is still there. Really does seem to be a fault somwhere in the manufacturing process as WEAL an Far side of crazy suggested.


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

You'd basically have to melt the tank to get it out. Then when it splits or fails under pressure KL will say you voided your warranty by over heating it.

Personally I would leave it.


----------



## awfulknauful

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> You'd basically have to melt the tank to get it out. Then when it splits or fails under pressure KL will say you voided your warranty by over heating it.
> 
> Personally I would leave it.


I bought mine second hand, though not used I have no receipt, as I said I can live with mine but had I bought it direct then it would have been going back.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

awfulknauful said:


> I bought mine second hand, though not used I have no receipt, as I said I can live with mine but had I bought it direct then it would have been going back.



As mentioned previously we would be happy to exchange the tank. With that said if you increase the temperature closer to the glass transition temperature this method will be effective. We have found that 50C water is normally sufficient to achieve this. Then let the water cool in the container. If the water is below 48C then it will not work.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> You'd basically have to melt the tank to get it out. Then when it splits or fails under pressure KL will say you voided your warranty by over heating it.
> 
> Personally I would leave it.



We specifically say 50C because this is a reasonable margin from the melting point of the plastic and it's below the warning temperature on the side of the unit which states not to exceed 55C. So there would be no reason why this would void warranty as it would be using the tank within the limits of what we recommend.


----------



## awfulknauful

Look I am not trying to tell you how to suck eggs, but buying a product off the shelf should not include hair dryers, warm water, pressure, it should be good to go straight from un boxing. Sending these to Europe and USA would surely be embarrasing, if it came with these instructions, its embarrasing to me as an Aussie that we couldn't get something which is not quite right.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

awfulknauful said:


> Look I am not trying to tell you how to suck eggs, but buying a product off the shelf should not include hair dryers, warm water, pressure, it should be good to go straight from un boxing. Sending these to Europe and USA would surely be embarrasing, if it came with these instructions, its embarrasing to me as an Aussie that we couldn't get something which is not quite right.



I’d be unhappy if I got one and it turned up dented. But fair play, they’ve offered to replace yours even without receipt so, I’d send it back. I really would, the dent would irritate me no end

I think it’s worth remembering we’re not dealing with a company the scale of Apple etc. there’s bound to be issues.. but as long as they’re properly addressed, I’m good with it. Especially if they keep innovating and releasing cool stuff 

Having said that, even companies on that huge scale like Apple would have people spending $1500 on a phone and getting a dodgy one that craps itself.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

awfulknauful said:


> Look I am not trying to tell you how to suck eggs, but buying a product off the shelf should not include hair dryers, warm water, pressure, it should be good to go straight from un boxing. Sending these to Europe and USA would surely be embarrasing, if it came with these instructions, its embarrasing to me as an Aussie that we couldn't get something which is not quite right.



We could not agree more which is why we have offered the option of a tank exchange. 

With that said it's also possible to damage the tank for instance if someone was to squash the tank in storage for instance some time after it was purchased and it's good for us to tell customers how to rectify this situation on a public forum like this so the customers realise how easy it is to solve this issue just with some 50C water. We are by no means saying you have to do this as you might find it easier to exchange the tank.

We have already started to discuss how your tank got squashed but we have not 100% confident how it happened. On the Gen 1 model we used to send these in colour printed box which looked nice but it was made from thinner cardboard. We now use thicker cardboard so I don't think the box thickness is the issue. It could have been squashed by being placed under lots of other heavy boxes or mishandled. We don't know how this particular tank got damaged. I can assure you though that we will continue to investigate and improve the product just like we do with all the products we sell.


----------



## onemorecell

awfulknauful said:


> buying a product off the shelf





awfulknauful said:


> I bought mine second hand


----------



## awfulknauful

I have a beer fermenting in the fermzilla at the moment, warm water didn't shift the dent neither has the 15psi which the gauge is reading. Thanks for the offer of an exchange but I would much sooner stick with the one I have,I don't want to end up with one like SpaceClef has. And reading the last sentence of post 1393, I guess this is as good as it gets.
Quote.
*Fermentasaurus Gen 2 - 27L*
We have decided to make some further changes to this and we have re-designed the collection container. Previously you would probably notice the Fermentasaurus 1 has a collection container that had no easy way to release pressure. We did get some customers get hops block in the container then this could cause a bit of a hop explosion effect when the collection container was removed. So we have re-designed the collection container so it has 3 openings on the collection container. You can easily attach ball lock posts to these openings as well so this means you can more easily purge oxygen from the hops or whatever it is that you are dosing the container with. The other thing is that you can also dispense samples from this collection container or use it to oxygenate your wort. So this will give the collection container several additional functions. So sorry it's taken longer than we anticipated but we simply don't want to start selling the product until we are really happy with the end product.


----------



## FreeBSD

awfulknauful said:


> I have a beer fermenting in the fermzilla at the moment, warm water didn't shift the dent neither has the 15psi which the gauge is reading. Thanks for the offer of an exchange but I would much sooner stick with the one I have,I don't want to end up with one like SpaceClef has. And reading the last sentence of post 1393, I guess this is as good as it gets.
> Quote.
> *Fermentasaurus Gen 2 - 27L*
> We have decided to make some further changes to this and we have re-designed the collection container. Previously you would probably notice the Fermentasaurus 1 has a collection container that had no easy way to release pressure. We did get some customers get hops block in the container then this could cause a bit of a hop explosion effect when the collection container was removed. So we have re-designed the collection container so it has 3 openings on the collection container. You can easily attach ball lock posts to these openings as well so this means you can more easily purge oxygen from the hops or whatever it is that you are dosing the container with. The other thing is that you can also dispense samples from this collection container or use it to oxygenate your wort. So this will give the collection container several additional functions. So sorry it's taken longer than we anticipated but we simply don't want to start selling the product until we are really happy with the end product.


Where is that quote from?


----------



## awfulknauful

FreeBSD said:


> Where is that quote from?


Keg Land Q & A post 1393.


----------



## kilanerax

The Fermzilla that I received was absolutely pristine, no dents or anything else. I gave it a thorough inspection to ensure there wasn't anything to worry about, and so far my first batch in it has been a dream. Haven't opened the valve on this particular batch as I ran slightly under my volume numbers and thought I could prevent a small amount of loss by keeping it closed so I can't comment on the collection container side of things yet. I was hoping to try out the purging of the container prior to dry hoping, but didn't order extra carbonation caps for that, silly me!


----------



## goatchop41

SpaceClef said:


> I haven’t tried pushing it back out yet but I can’t imagine it will simply go back to its original form



Maybe don't whinge about it until you actually put it under some pressure and see if it just pops out?


----------



## goatchop41

awfulknauful said:


> Tried the warm water with some pressure and the dent is still there. Really does seem to be a fault somwhere in the manufacturing process as WEAL an Far side of crazy suggested.



Or maybe you're just speculating? I'm not affiliated with anyone at all, but certainly seeing so many people throwing out their opinions as if they are fact is very annoying to see. You have absolutely no idea if there is a fault in the manufacturing process, and you're basing that off of seeing a couple of dicky ones on a forum.
Have you considered that maybe the couple of bad ones that we've seen on here could be just a couple out of the hundreds/thousands of good ones?


----------



## Abird89

goatchop41 said:


> Have you considered that maybe the couple of bad ones that we've seen on here could be just a couple out of the hundreds/thousands of good ones?



This^
People don’t tend to complain when things are doing their job. Sounds like plenty of the ones out there are fine


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Funny how the world turns, one person is short changed one dollars worth of hops bought from keg land and there is a major outcry and dozens of posts of people voicing their opinions, unacceptable dents in a $130 Fermzilla and that's OK. All it takes to rectify the problem is Quality Control in place in the manufacturers facility in China.


----------



## cb341982

Just a quick tip. I'm not a fan of the PET caps supplied with the fermzilla with that little blue plastic insert in the caps. I don't know how sanitary they'll be if yeast and crud gets behind them. So I changed them out for Coopers PET caps that are a 1 piece design with nowhere for crud to hide.


----------



## Schikitar

wide eyed and legless said:


> Funny how the world turns, one person is short changed one dollars worth of hops bought from keg land and there is a major outcry and dozens of posts of people voicing their opinions, unacceptable dents in a $130 Fermzilla and that's OK.



I was the "hop guy" AND I'm also not happy about people receiving damaged Fermzilla's. I believe in quality control, from the cheapest item to the most expensive.


----------



## awfulknauful

goatchop41 said:


> Or maybe you're just speculating? I'm not affiliated with anyone at all, but certainly seeing so many people throwing out their opinions as if they are fact is very annoying to see. You have absolutely no idea if there is a fault in the manufacturing process, and you're basing that off of seeing a couple of dicky ones on a forum.
> Have you considered that maybe the couple of bad ones that we've seen on here could be just a couple out of the hundreds/thousands of good ones?


I would say it is logical, that there is a fault in the manufacture, a box with no damage and a Fermzilla damaged, I have a Fermentasaurus, it resists any denting even if attempted, this dent doesn't push out, even resisted warm water and pressure. But it is water under the bridge now, it still ferments wort but I don't believe the claim that PET is becoming better than stainless steel. For a few dollars more I could have got the Guten fermenter, still may if finances are in order at the end of the month.


----------



## WEF

awfulknauful said:


> I would say it is logical, that there is a fault in the manufacture, a box with no damage and a Fermzilla damaged, I have a Fermentasaurus, it resists any denting even if attempted, this dent doesn't push out, even resisted warm water and pressure. But it is water under the bridge now, it still ferments wort but I don't believe the claim that PET is becoming better than stainless steel. For a few dollars more I could have got the Guten fermenter, still may if finances are in order at the end of the month.



No you wont... the Guten cant do what the FermZilla can do, not without drilling and doing all sorts of mods anyway.


----------



## WEF

Budron said:


> This all makes sense WEAL, but will take away 1 of the things I was really looking forward to with using this Fermzilla, which is rousing up after my dry hop additions to get full utilisation out of this dry hop process. My plan was to dump the yeast after fermentation is basically done, and then replace the collection bottle with the dry hops which have been purged with co2. After a few days hook up the co2 to the collection bottle via a carbonation cap/post and rouse the hops off the bottom and get them flowing about again.
> 
> I guess I could leave the yeast in the bottle, dry hop through the top & rouse co2 through the beer out post & dip tube. Has anyone done this with the version 1? Would it disturb the yeast too much?
> 
> P.S. I love our man Jasper! Keep Drinkin'!



I just added an additional 100g of dry hops to the FermZilla and noticed that it will self flocculate for 10 minutes after releasing pressure then adding the dry hops. By releasing the pressure the CO2 release causes the liquid to roll around in Fermzilla for some time, additional charges with your CO2 cylinder followed by a dumping through the pressure relief valve will initiate the flocculation again. Ive done it 3 times now and it works like a charm. I will add that i removed the Trub through the collection container the night before to minimise the amount of trub being agitated through the aforementioned process. Just make sure you release all pressure from the vessel prior to removing the bottom collection container! The female thread on the Fermzilla collects alot of trub so be sure to spray it clean and sterilise before reinstalling the collection container, then purge the container of oxygen prior to opening the butterfly valve. Although it appears that you'll lose 1L of beer which drops back into the container after dumping the trub, my container is quickly filling up with hops following precipitation into the container therefore it should displace the beer back up into the fermenter where it can be sucked up...


----------



## Ballaratguy

WEF said:


> No you wont... the Guten cant do what the FermZilla can do, not without drilling and doing all sorts of mods anyway.


WEF what can the fermzilla do that the Guten can’t do without modifications?
(Just curious)


----------



## Reg Holt

Good question, unless the pressure kit is included with the Fermzilla for the extra money Guten S/steel would be my choice. I am using 2 snub nose Fermentasaurus at the moment 2 for $140 and that included the pressure kits.


----------



## WEF

Ballaratguy said:


> WEF what can the fermzilla do that the Guten can’t do without modifications?
> (Just curious)



@ Ballaratguy - Just to name a few

- Visibly see what's going on with your brew.
- The option to brew under pressure.
- Pressure control through additional spunding valve.
- Oxygen free pressure transfer into kegs.
- Ability to add dry hops oxygen free through collection container at the bottom.
- Ability to take trub free SG readings without introducing oxygen into wort.
- Future mods in the pipeline such as ability to add thermometer and heating wands into the lid!


----------



## WEF

Reg Holt said:


> Good question, unless the pressure kit is included with the Fermzilla for the extra money Guten S/steel would be my choice. I am using 2 snub nose Fermentasaurus at the moment 2 for $140 and that included the pressure kits.



To the contrary, for a small cost the pressure upgrade adds a whole lot of ability to an already great fermenter, read my post above...


----------



## Nullnvoid

WEF said:


> @ Ballaratguy - Just to name a few
> 
> - Visibly see what's going on with your brew.
> - The option to brew under pressure.
> - Pressure control through additional spunding valve.
> - Oxygen free pressure transfer into kegs.
> - Ability to add dry hops oxygen free through collection container at the bottom.
> - Ability to take trub free SG readings without introducing oxygen into wort.
> - Future mods in the pipeline such as ability to add thermometer and heating wands into the lid!



Kegland employee?


----------



## FreeBSD

WEF said:


> To the contrary, for a small cost the pressure upgrade adds a whole lot of ability to an already great fermenter, read my post above...



- The option to brew under pressure.
- Pressure control through additional spunding valve.
- Oxygen free pressure transfer into kegs.
- Ability to add dry hops oxygen free through collection container at the bottom.
- Ability to take trub free SG readings without introducing oxygen into wort.
- Future mods in the pipeline such as ability to add thermometer and heating wands into the lid!

Well the snub noses can do all that but cheaper. For what a Fermzilla costs when you add the pressure kit you get two units so you can do dry hop oxygen free very easily and they don't come with dents.


----------



## WEF

Nullnvoid said:


> Kegland employee?


No just a Homebrewer who has the ability to compare differences over a range of products, i hear they're hiring though!


----------



## WEF

FreeBSD said:


> - The option to brew under pressure.
> - Pressure control through additional spunding valve.
> - Oxygen free pressure transfer into kegs.
> - Ability to add dry hops oxygen free through collection container at the bottom.
> - Ability to take trub free SG readings without introducing oxygen into wort.
> - Future mods in the pipeline such as ability to add thermometer and heating wands into the lid!
> 
> Well the snub noses can do all that but cheaper. For what a Fermzilla costs when you add the pressure kit you get two units so you can do dry hop oxygen free very easily and they don't come with dents.


Looks like were steering away from the Guten as my original post intended also... If you want to compare apples with apples then go for it but that was not my intent.


----------



## Reg Holt

Nullnvoid said:


> Kegland employee?


Thats what I thought on his initial posts, hes the only one who could spell FermZilla correctly.


WEF said:


> To the contrary, for a small cost the pressure upgrade adds a whole lot of ability to an already great fermenter, read my post above...


For a small cost the Guten can be upgraded too.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Reg Holt said:


> Thats what I thought on his initial posts, hes the only one who could spell FermZilla correctly.
> 
> For a small cost the Guten can be upgraded too.


Someone on the Guten fermenter thread pressurised the standard Guten fermenter.


----------



## WEF

Reg Holt said:


> Thats what I thought on his initial posts, hes the only one who could spell FermZilla correctly.
> 
> For a small cost the Guten can be upgraded too.



Lol, so FermZilla is a difficult word to spell ... Anyway, my first post stated that awefulknauful was unlikely to purchase a Guten over the Fermzilla due to the advantages the FermZilla has over the Guten and my following post detailed my first experiences with my newly purchased FermZilla.

Please elaborate what modifications and costs are involved to turn the Guten into a Fermzilla? It would have to be like for like or cheaper for me to consider one. One big advantage i see the Guten has is footprint/size over the Fermzilla.


----------



## Reg Holt

WEF said:


> Lol, so FermZilla is a difficult word to spell ... Anyway, my first post stated that awefulknauful was unlikely to purchase a Guten over the Fermzilla due to the advantages the FermZilla has over the Guten and my following post detailed my first experiences with my newly purchased FermZilla.
> 
> Please elaborate what modifications and costs are involved to turn the Guten into a Fermzilla? It would have to be like for like or cheaper for me to consider one. One big advantage i see the Guten has is footprint/size over the Fermzilla.


It would seem FermZilla with a capital Z is the way Keg Land spells it I haven't seen it written like that by the original poster or any of the contributors to the thread. Only awfulknauful can answer whether he is likely to buy the Guten, at the price I don't see why not, especially after he expressed his detailed view in his initial post.

As far as I know it just involves the purchase of a pressure kit much the same as it is for the fermzilla, and you are right size is an advantage as the Guten are stack-able.


----------



## tanked84

When is the version coming out that can take hot wort or being able to be cleaned with some boiling water and sodium perc?
I remember there was talk of this. Just checked the manual and nothing over 50C.
How have you guys gone cleaning cold?


----------



## goatchop41

Reg Holt said:


> As far as I know it just involves the purchase of a pressure kit much the same as it is for the fermzilla, and you are right size is an advantage as the Guten are stack-able.



Which pressure kit is that exactly? There certainly aren't any on the KK website.


----------



## WEF

Reg Holt said:


> It would seem FermZilla with a capital Z is the way Keg Land spells it I haven't seen it written like that by the original poster or any of the contributors to the thread. Only awfulknauful can answer whether he is likely to buy the Guten, at the price I don't see why not, especially after he expressed his detailed view in his initial post.
> 
> As far as I know it just involves the purchase of a pressure kit much the same as it is for the fermzilla, and you are right size is an advantage as the Guten are stack-able.



Well considering i just bought one and have been anticipating its release for the past couple of months it's no wonder i know how it's SPELT, clearly their marketing has worked... I just assumed he wouldn't settle for a product (the Guten) that isnt able to do what his FermZilla can do. Anyway, your little jive at me being a Kegland employee is not true, Kegland don't work on a Sundays!!! Woops...just noticed i just spelt Kegland incorrectly...


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

tanked84 said:


> When is the version coming out that can take hot wort or being able to be cleaned with some boiling water and sodium perc?
> I remember there was talk of this. Just checked the manual and nothing over 50C.
> How have you guys gone cleaning cold?


The hot tank version is still planned according to KL. But last time they answered this there was no time frame and they were concentrating on the current versoon to meet the demand.


----------



## ABG

Nullnvoid said:


> Kegland employee?


I was wondering the same thing. 8 posts and almost all devoted to a Kegland product. Reminds me of several "home brewers" whose only contributions are spruiking KK gear or rubbishing KL gear. In fairness to the KL team, at least they have the decency to post officially as a company (as well as sponsor this forum) and not just shadow post. I would just rather see the end of shadow posters.


FreeBSD said:


> Well the snub noses can do all that but cheaper. For what a Fermzilla costs when you add the pressure kit you get two units so you can do dry hop oxygen free very easily and they don't come with dents.


The key differences as I see it are:

The Fermzilla is a true unitank. The Snubnose isn't
You can add hops and other adjuncts oxygen free to to FZ, but not the SN (you could add a hop tea, but not hops O2 free)
You can remove the trub with a FZ, but not the SN
Ditto the yeast cake
There's probably others I'm missing, but these are the key reasons I will be buying a FZ when the new high temperature resistant material model hits the market. For me, the differences I pointed out aren't insignificant and are the reasons I'm willing to part with more of my hard earned for a FZ instead of a SN. I've long yearned for a unitank, but don't have a fat enough wallet. The FZ is a game changer for me.


----------



## awfulknauful

WEF said:


> Well considering i just bought one and have been anticipating its release for the past couple of months it's no wonder i know how it's SPELT, clearly their marketing has worked... I just assumed he wouldn't settle for a product (the Guten) that isnt able to do what his FermZilla can do. Anyway, your little jive at me being a Kegland employee is not true, Kegland don't work on a Sundays!!! Woops...just noticed i just spelt Kegland incorrectly...


I inquired about the Guten fermenter Saturday, they arrive on August 4th pressure kits are coming in later. 
Your right the marketing did work, I was also anticipating the release with baited breath, what I didn't anticipate was the poor quality.


----------



## Kenf

awfulknauful said:


> I inquired about the Guten fermenter Saturday, they arrive on August 4th pressure kits are coming in later.
> Your right the marketing did work, I was also anticipating the release with baited breath, what I didn't anticipate was the poor quality.


I’m thinking the same thing! So the clamps on the Guten will handle a bit of pressure then? 
On the whole Fermzilla vs Guten thing, I don’t need to see what’s going on - I have a Plaato Airlock for that. I have used Mangrove Jack stainless fermenters in the past and I use an old keg to do pressure fermenting.
The O2 thing? I’m not sending my stuff out to the trade and I have never had an oxidation problem before so it’s not an issue for me!
What I want to be able to do is harvest the yeast! I use Wyeast liquid sometimes & I can’t always get to the LHBS to buy it & they are not stocking it anymore anyway!
So with that in mind only 3 products suit. Then I look at my fermentation chamber & budget and that knocks out the SSbrewtech stuff. And then there is the heat problem with the Fermzilla?
So 4th August vs 20th July? And I’m not in any great hurry either, so it might be worth it to wait
Cheers


----------



## WEF

ABG said:


> I was wondering the same thing. 8 posts and almost all devoted to a Kegland product. Reminds me of several "home brewers" whose only contributions are spruiking KK gear or rubbishing KL gear. In fairness to the KL team, at least they have the decency to post officially as a company (as well as sponsor this forum) and not just shadow post. I would just rather see the end of shadow posters.
> 
> The key differences as I see it are:
> 
> The Fermzilla is a true unitank. The Snubnose isn't
> You can add hops and other adjuncts oxygen free to to FZ, but not the SN (you could add a hop tea, but not hops O2 free)
> You can remove the trub with a FZ, but not the SN
> Ditto the yeast cake
> There's probably others I'm missing, but these are the key reasons I will be buying a FZ when the new high temperature resistant material model hits the market. For me, the differences I pointed out aren't insignificant and are the reasons I'm willing to part with more of my hard earned for a FZ instead of a SN. I've long yearned for a unitank, but don't have a fat enough wallet. The FZ is a game changer for me.



I think it's time to put away the tin foil hat, wooden spoon and tin pots gang, this whole Kegland employee thing is getting a bit petulant and well beyond the level of maturity i was expecting upon joining this forum. I only just read another thread where you guys got stuck into someone with heavy undertones accusing them of being a Kegland employee also. The truth is i wouldn't mind betting some of you chumps are competitors to Kegland, the other truth is if my local homebrew shop had a FermZilla equivalent for sale at the same price i'd buy from them which would save me travelling to Kegland but guess what, they dont.
The same dot points you pointed out above are pretty much the same points i pointed out in contest to the Guten, does that make you a Kegland employee?


----------



## Kenf

WEF said:


> I think it's time to put away the tin foil hat, wooden spoon and tin pots gang, this whole Kegland employee thing is getting a bit petulant and well beyond the level of maturity i was expecting upon joining this forum. I only just read another thread where you guys got stuck into someone with heavy undertones accusing them of being a Kegland employee also. The truth is i wouldn't mind betting some of you chumps are competitors to Kegland, the other truth is if my local homebrew shop had a FermZilla equivalent for sale at the same price i'd buy from them which would save me travelling to Kegland but guess what, they dont.
> The same dot points you pointed out above are pretty much the same points i pointed out in contest to the Guten, does that make you a Kegland employee?


Mate I agree! I’m tried of the whole thing as well! I buy from who ever stocks what I want at the time. I have even paid a little more to get products to support businesses I like dealing with - then to get supplied KL stuff anyway.
And when I’m experimenting KL gear is cheap enough to go “ oh well i’ve Screwed that up!” And not be too concerned about costs. 
And lately every time I go into a bricks and mortar store I get lectured about something (using tap and go for example) or the gear is over priced or they can’t actually help.
Over the last few weeks I have spent a small fortune on hardwear experiments (KL, KK and Cheekypeek can confirm that) trying to fix/ improve a rather expensive brewing system. 
But now I’m at a point that I just want something that works, is robust and I don’t have to worry about having to return defective components. So I guess we will see.
But yeah the conspiracy stuff is just so boring!


----------



## Reg Holt

ABG said:


> The Fermzilla is a true unitank. The Snubnose isn't
> You can add hops and other adjuncts oxygen free to to FZ, but not the SN (you could add a hop tea, but not hops O2 free)
> You can remove the trub with a FZ, but not the SN
> Ditto the yeast cake
> There's probably others I'm missing, but these are the key reasons I will be buying a FZ when the new high temperature resistant material model hits the market. For me, the differences I pointed out aren't insignificant and are the reasons I'm willing to part with more of my hard earned for a FZ instead of a SN. I've long yearned for a unitank, but don't have a fat enough wallet. The FZ is a game changer for me.



1. No one has ever claimed the snub nose is a uni tank.
2. I add hops to the second snubby which is purged and sterile. (2 snubbies $140 with pressure kits)
3. I honestly cannot see the reasoning in adding trub to a fermenter to take it out again.
4. Yeast isn't going anywhere, make it into a slurry in the snubby pour into sterile jars.

I doubt whether anyone cares which fermenter you buy, but if you are strapped for cash a stainless steel one, whether its Brewtech or Guten will last you a lifetime, and for around the same price as the hot fill PET fermenter.
PET lasts around 2 to 3 years before having to be replaced, so it is really a false economy.
As for the hot fill PET it will be interesting to know how many hot fills (washes) it can take before it starts degrading, as far as I know the hot fill technology was for single use bottles.


----------



## FreeBSD

WEF said:


> Looks like were steering away from the Guten as my original post intended also... If you want to compare apples with apples then go for it but that was not my intent.


Just hope those Guten units will do pressure soon and actually arrive. Seems we are all always waiting for the next thing that makes brewing simpler and more affordable. I think its great that they fit into a keg fridge.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

WEF said:


> I think it's time to put away the tin foil hat, wooden spoon and tin pots gang, this whole Kegland employee thing is getting a bit petulant and well beyond the level of maturity i was expecting upon joining this forum. I only just read another thread where you guys got stuck into someone with heavy undertones accusing them of being a Kegland employee also. The truth is i wouldn't mind betting some of you chumps are competitors to Kegland, the other truth is if my local homebrew shop had a FermZilla equivalent for sale at the same price i'd buy from them which would save me travelling to Kegland but guess what, they dont.
> The same dot points you pointed out above are pretty much the same points i pointed out in contest to the Guten, does that make you a Kegland employee?



Hey @WEF I missed you at the last staff meeting, I will have to catch you up on the master plan of world home brewing domination by infiltrating the Aussie Home Brewer forum!

Sorry, couldn't resist. I've been accused of being on the payroll of KL too.


----------



## WEF

Kenf said:


> Mate I agree! I’m tried of the whole thing as well! I buy from who ever stocks what I want at the time. I have even paid a little more to get products to support businesses I like dealing with - then to get supplied KL stuff anyway.
> And when I’m experimenting KL gear is cheap enough to go “ oh well i’ve Screwed that up!” And not be too concerned about costs.
> And lately every time I go into a bricks and mortar store I get lectured about something (using tap and go for example) or the gear is over priced or they can’t actually help.
> Over the last few weeks I have spent a small fortune on hardwear experiments (KL, KK and Cheekypeek can confirm that) trying to fix/ improve a rather expensive brewing system.
> But now I’m at a point that I just want something that works, is robust and I don’t have to worry about having to return defective components. So I guess we will see.
> But yeah the conspiracy stuff is just so boring!



Yeah i couldn't agree more. Cheers


----------



## jayred

I purchased a KK Guten recently and added a few mods.
I removed the thermometer that was included and added a thermowell so i can place my inkbird probe inside.
I also attached a gas ball lock post to the lid for pressure transfer and ferment.
The first time i tried the pressure transfer i noticed gas escaping around the lid so the clamps were not holding the lid down good enough.
Now i sit something heavy on the lid like a concrete tile and i'd works perfect.
I do like the idea of being able to see what my yeasties are doing but the ease of cleaning this SS bucket is the big win for me


----------



## Schikitar

Put my first batch of beer into my new Fermzilla yesterday, a gluten free stout which was a real pain to brew BTW! Thankfully the transfer and everything else about the Fermzilla was nice and easy. Discovered that it's pretty easy to over tighten the fittings on the unit, hand tightening is enough but those carbonation caps are slippery buggers. Overall, much better than the Fermentasaurus (which I was borrowing off my brother), I used to have a real problem transferring from my kettle to that unit, the Fermzilla _just_ sits at a height I can work with for the transfer which is nice. 

Anyway, I'm happy with my purchase, there are a lot of solutions out there, just do your own research and find what works best for you!


----------



## Ballaratguy

jayred said:


> I purchased a KK Guten recently and added a few mods.
> I removed the thermometer that was included and added a thermowell so i can place my inkbird probe inside.
> I also attached a gas ball lock post to the lid for pressure transfer and ferment.
> The first time i tried the pressure transfer i noticed gas escaping around the lid so the clamps were not holding the lid down good enough.
> Now i sit something heavy on the lid like a concrete tile and i'd works perfect.
> I do like the idea of being able to see what my yeasties are doing but the ease of cleaning this SS bucket is the big win for me


Thanks for your reply it saves me from looking up what you has done for pressure fermenting & transfer
I have been thinking of the same (just waiting for the new shipment)
1. I was thinking a small bit of packing under the clamps may give enough pressure to seal the lid
2. A Weldless 1.5” trick amp put into the lid may be a good for the pressure connections (although the bulkhead posts are just as good)
3. I’m getting a NorCal brink delivered to me in November which will do all the true removal, hop injection in a sealed environment 
4. With the pressure /co2 collection Sampling can be done without any o2 ingress
All of this will make the Guten a worthwhile and long term investment 
My thoughts anyway


----------



## Truman42

Reg Holt said:


> .... stainless steel one, whether its Brewtech or Guten will last you a lifetime, and for around the same price as the hot fill PET fermenter.
> PET lasts around 2 to 3 years before having to be replaced, so it is really a false economy.



What these new hot fill PET fermenters they are working on will cost the same as stainless? Whats the point then?

I was starting to think I had wasted my money on the Brewtech Chronical I just brought as the Fermzillas seem to have a lot of fancy add ons. But at least I know it should last longer than 3 years.


----------



## ABG

Reg Holt said:


> 1. No one has ever claimed the snub nose is a uni tank.
> 2. I add hops to the second snubby which is purged and sterile. (2 snubbies $140 with pressure kits)
> 3. I honestly cannot see the reasoning in adding trub to a fermenter to take it out again.
> 4. Yeast isn't going anywhere, make it into a slurry in the snubby pour into sterile jars.
> 
> I doubt whether anyone cares which fermenter you buy, but if you are strapped for cash a stainless steel one, whether its Brewtech or Guten will last you a lifetime, and for around the same price as the hot fill PET fermenter.
> PET lasts around 2 to 3 years before having to be replaced, so it is really a false economy.
> As for the hot fill PET it will be interesting to know how many hot fills (washes) it can take before it starts degrading, as far as I know the hot fill technology was for single use bottles.



Food for thought Reg, thanks. I do like the Brewtech Chronical, but I really like the ability of the FZ to dry hop O2 free. Does anyone know a way you can do this with the BC? I guess if you could find a way to connect the FZ collection jar to the BC, you would be able to. I've read too many poor reports about the quality of the Guten - it's not for me.

Re your other comments:

One of the one eyed KK crowd said on the previous page that the SN can do everything the BZ can which isn't true - that's why I said the SN isn't a uni tank
Agreed that would work, but I'm in an apartment and storage is a major factor for me. I would love to have a huge collection of fermenters like WEAL, but I don't have anywhere to store them. I would eventually like to have 2 unitanks, but right now it needs to be one all-in-one for me.
Do you transfer the trub to your keg? I like the idea of being able to get it out o2 free and being able to transfer to my kegs o2 free with a spunding valve which lets me walk away and run automatically. More importantly for me, it allows you to easily separate the trub from the yeast and harvest the yeast o2 free as soon as fermentation is finished. I don't have to wait until cold crashing has finished like I do right now, which ties in with 4.
The fresher you can harvest it, the higher the viability. For me that's the raison d'atre for a conical fermenter - all the pro brewers I've ever spoken with have said the same. That's the deal breaker for me with the SN, but I get that it's not for everyone. Horses for courses and all that.


----------



## ABG

Truman42 said:


> What these new hot fill PET fermenters they are working on will cost the same as stainless? Whats the point then?
> 
> I was starting to think I had wasted my money on the Brewtech Chronical I just brought as the Fermzillas seem to have a lot of fancy add ons. But at least I know it should last longer than 3 years.


You've definitely wasted your money @Truman42 You should buy a FZ and give me your Chronical...


----------



## Truman42

ABG said:


> You've definitely wasted your money @Truman42 You should buy a FZ and give me your Chronical...


Ummm..ohh ok then that sounds fair..lol


----------



## Meddo

ABG said:


> Food for thought Reg, thanks. I do like the Brewtech Chronical, but I really like the ability of the FZ to dry hop O2 free. Does anyone know a way you can do this with the BC? I guess if you could find a way to connect the FZ collection jar to the BC, you would be able to. I've read too many poor reports about the quality of the Guten - it's not for me.
> 
> Re your other comments:
> 
> One of the one eyed KK crowd said on the previous page that the SN can do everything the BZ can which isn't true - that's why I said the SN isn't a uni tank
> Agreed that would work, but I'm in an apartment and storage is a major factor for me. I would love to have a huge collection of fermenters like WEAL, but I don't have anywhere to store them. I would eventually like to have 2 unitanks, but right now it needs to be one all-in-one for me.
> Do you transfer the trub to your keg? I like the idea of being able to get it out o2 free and being able to transfer to my kegs o2 free with a spunding valve which lets me walk away and run automatically. More importantly for me, it allows you to easily separate the trub from the yeast and harvest the yeast o2 free as soon as fermentation is finished. I don't have to wait until cold crashing has finished like I do right now, which ties in with 4.
> The fresher you can harvest it, the higher the viability. For me that's the raison d'atre for a conical fermenter - all the pro brewers I've ever spoken with have said the same. That's the deal breaker for me with the SN, but I get that it's not for everyone. Horses for courses and all that.


@ABG see my thread at the other place "dry hop airlock" for a means of O2-free hop additions in a unitank.


----------



## ABG

Cheers @Meddo Great build and a very informative thread. I'm jealous of your fermenting rig.


----------



## Mya

ABG said:


> I've read too many poor reports about the quality of the Guten - it's not for me.



Care to elaborate? Where have you heard these reports about the Guten SS conical fermenter? I was interested in getting one. I've read the AHB thread about it and not seen any negative reports.


----------



## jayred

Mya said:


> Care to elaborate? Where have you heard these reports about the Guten SS conical fermenter? I was interested in getting one. I've read the AHB thread about it and not seen any negative reports.


I'd like to know also as the only negative i can see with this is the lid not sealing great with pressure but a simple brick fixed that issue for me


----------



## Mya

jayred said:


> I'd like to know also as the only negative i can see with this is the lid not sealing great with pressure but a simple brick fixed that issue for me



Well that's not even really a negative, it isn't sold or designed as a pressure vessel.


----------



## jayred

Mya said:


> Well that's not even really a negative, it isn't sold or designed as a pressure vessel.


Very true


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Reading these posts I think WEF is working for Keg King the way he surreptitiously turned this thread into a debate about the Guten fermenter.
This thread is about the Fermzilla.
Thread for the Guten fementer is under - Keg King s/steel uni tank
Thread for the Snub nose is under - KK Fermentasaurus conical pet fermenter.


----------



## WEF

wide eyed and legless said:


> Reading these posts I think WEF is working for Keg King the way he surreptitiously turned this thread into a debate about the Guten fermenter.
> This thread is about the Fermzilla.
> Thread for the Guten fementer is under - Keg King s/steel uni tank
> Thread for the Snub nose is under - KK Fermentasaurus conical pet fermenter.



Lol... yeah i was wondering about that as well. Theres a few here who seem to be looking over their shoulder a bit on this AHB forum. Has something happened in the past for people to be so suspicious following someones post about a Kegland product? Some ive noticed have been very critical of others posting about Kegland products... I'm a little suss now on those who've suddenly bird dogged me while chiming in on a Kegland thread & suddenly glorifying the Guten fermenter. Makes you wonder about their place of employment, Keg King maybe!

Anyway moving back onto my FermZilla, i'm about to keg my first run now using the pressure transfer method so fingers crossed all goes well. It's Gash's Zombie Dust clone with an extra 100g of Citra Hops to deliver a massive Citrus wack!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

How often will you guys be stripping down the butterfly valve for cleaning?


----------



## Kenf

So does everybody work for the suppliers? 
Thanks for the info WEAL, found the info I was looking for on the other thread.
Still deciding with that 50 Degree C limit I’m not sure if the heater belt in my fermentation fridge would be a good idea on the fermzilla 
Cheers


----------



## Mya

Good point, the heater belts definitely get above 50 degC on the surface of the belt, I wonder if it would deform the PET over time.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Reading Reg's post (106) about 'hot fill' I did look up what it was, a lot of juices get hot filled into PET bottles which can take close to boiling. For the bog standard plastics I came across this list.

*What are the hot fill temperatures for the plastic bottles?*
Hot fill temperatures for plastic bottles and jars.

PET (polyethylene terephthalate) 120°F 
PS (polystyrene) 150°F 
HDPE (high density polyethylene) 145°F 
LDPE (low density polyethylene) 120°F
PP (polypropylene) 165°F
PVC (polyvinyl chloride) 140°F

NOTE: The information provided above is intended to provide a relative comparison of plastic resin hot fill temperatures and should only be used as guide during the selection process. Individual plastic bottle resins may have hot fill temperatures that vary from those listed above. It is the buyer's responsibility to make the final determination as to whether a given bottle is suitable for their hot fill process. Chemical and temperature compatibility testing is, and will always be, the final determining factor in the bottle selection process.


----------



## WEF

wide eyed and legless said:


> How often will you guys be stripping down the butterfly valve for cleaning?



Not sure, i'll inspect it when i decide to clean it and will clean if needed.


Mya said:


> Good point, the heater belts definitely get above 50 degC on the surface of the belt, I wonder if it would deform the PET over time.



No need to wrap the belt around fermenter, just lay it on the floor.


----------



## goatchop41

WEF said:


> No need to wrap the belt around fermenter, just lay it on the floor.


Even better - screw a hook in to the roof of your fermenting chamber and hang it from that. Now it doesn't contact anything and all of the heat from it spreads to the surrounding area, as opposed to a heap of it being absorbed by the bottom of the chamber that it is sitting on


----------



## Fro-Daddy

I just wrap the belt around the stand of the FS


----------



## Schikitar

I thought that heat belts had to be in full contact with something otherwise they can overheat/melt/<insert disaster here>? :O

Pretty sure my Fermzilla has a leak in the lid somewhere. I only had the standard airlock on it for the first few days but there was zero action in the bubbler everytime I checked it BUT my fridge had that distinctive 'fermenting beer' smell. Haven't located the leak just yet as activity has died down already, I suspect the carbonation cap I've got on there for liquid out (it was leaking when I was cleaning it as well but thought I fixed it). Will be changing out the airlock with another carbonation cap so I'm hoping that doesn't double my problems once I put a bit of pressure on the unit. I was looking to carbonate in the Fermzilla and bottling from there with a bottling gun (normally I'd pressure transfer to keg but this is a stout going into longnecks).


----------



## Half-baked

Schikitar said:


> Pretty sure my Fermzilla has a leak in the lid somewhere. I only had the standard airlock on it for the first few days...



Took me a few goes with the carb caps to get them right. Had sanitiser in fermenter, held upside down to test for leaks, and after a few goes found there was a sweet spot for tightening the carb caps just the right amount for a good seal. 

Wouldn’t want to put on a cap mid-ferment, I ran a gas line from the carb cap to a bottle of sanitiser as the airlock. 

IMHO, they really should come as standard.

Have had my heat belt mostly dangling for a few years without problems...


----------



## Schikitar

Half-baked said:


> after a few goes found there was a sweet spot for tightening the carb caps just the right amount for a good seal.


Yeah, this isn't good, shouldn't have to find a 'sweet spot' and I consider this a flaw in the design.



Half-baked said:


> Wouldn’t want to put on a cap mid-ferment, I ran a gas line from the carb cap to a bottle of sanitiser as the airlock.


Living on the edge here, yeah I'll do what you do next time!



Half-baked said:


> Have had my heat belt mostly dangling for a few years without problems.


Good to know, I'll start doing the same thing, would save a bit of hassle securing it to the vessel!


----------



## ABG

goatchop41 said:


> Even better - screw a hook in to the roof of your fermenting chamber and hang it from that. Now it doesn't contact anything and all of the heat from it spreads to the surrounding area, as opposed to a heap of it being absorbed by the bottom of the chamber that it is sitting on


Really good idea. My heat belt had started to melt the plastic floor of my fridge (I have the fermenter sitting on a tray a few inches above the floor). I was brewing with a kveik and had the temperature at 35. I was lucky it wasn't more serious. Next time the heat belt will be hanging from the roof of the fridge and well away from my fermenter and the vertical panels of my fridge. 
Apologies for the off topic post.


----------



## Nullnvoid

Has anyone found an easy way to get the lid off? Undoing the ring is fine it's getting the lid to break the seal. You can't grab it anywhere to lift it.


----------



## WEF

goatchop41 said:


> Even better - screw a hook in to the roof of your fermenting chamber and hang it from that. Now it doesn't contact anything and all of the heat from it spreads to the surrounding area, as opposed to a heap of it being absorbed by the bottom of the chamber that it is sitting on



This did cross my mind when first setting up my fridge however i couldn't help but embrace the message that "Hot air rises" and thought that any heat "absorbed" through transfer should technically rise up past the fermenter as it dissipates... Just a theory, so far ive had no concerning issues running this way.


----------



## WEF

ABG said:


> Really good idea. My heat belt had started to melt the plastic floor of my fridge (I have the fermenter sitting on a tray a few inches above the floor). I was brewing with a kveik and had the temperature at 35. I was lucky it wasn't more serious. Next time the heat belt will be hanging from the roof of the fridge and well away from my fermenter and the vertical panels of my fridge.
> Apologies for the off topic post.



Geez... mine doesn't get that hot but maybe the higher duty cycle at 35c was the main factor. I run with that cheapy 10w silicon type heat band from Kegland. Twas only abot $10 on memory so i'll keep an eye on it as i dont trust crude heating devices like this especially after seeing sparks from our 10 year old electric blanket a couple of months ago due to failed cabling, as a result we threw the electric blanket out and just use heat packs...
I couldn't see the heat belt it getting any hotter than 50c but i'll check on my next run.


----------



## WEF

TheBeerBaron said:


> Hey @WEF I missed you at the last staff meeting, I will have to catch you up on the master plan of world home brewing domination by infiltrating the Aussie Home Brewer forum!
> 
> Sorry, couldn't resist. I've been accused of being on the payroll of KL too.



Haha... yep don't forget the weekly Kegland Clan meeting is on tonight! Seriously though, ive only been a forum member for maybe a week and it's starting to amaze me how much Kegland is getting a bad wrap by a select few flogs in the some of the threads ive been reading.

Not that i give a stuff and am not answerable to anyone, but I'll say this once and once only; i have no affiliation with Kegland what so ever other than being a HAPPY customer so far. So any flog that accuses me of being a Kegland employee or any other crap like pretty much tells me your a Kegland competitor as most of the "critics" ive seen appear not to actually have/use Kegland products but extremely vocal and critical of their products it seems!!!

My story with Kegland is that i stumbled across them about 2 months ago after deciding to ramp up my home brewing again after having a 3 year hiatus coming from Coopers/semi grain brewing... I've put a lot of research, time effort and money into an all grain setup and have found Kegland meets some of MY needs. The aforementioned investment ive put into this just pisses me off when some flog comes along and accuses me of being a Kegland employee. If anyone is not happy with my explanation then you know what you can go and do dont you, yep you can go and get stuffed because i couldn't give a fat rats freckle what you or any other flog thinks...


----------



## Nullnvoid

WEF said:


> The aforementioned investment ive put into this just pisses me off when some flog comes along and accuses me of being a Kegland employee. If anyone is not happy with my explanation then you know what you can go and do dont you, yep you can go and get stuffed because i couldn't give a fat rats freckle what you or any other flog thinks...



Hey, that was me I think. Although I wasn't having a go, I just asked the question and then didn't even bother replying after that. It was more tongue in cheek than anything.

Was purely because there is this perception when someone comes on board and speaks the way you did it is suspicious and has happened before, but mainly with Keg-King employees.


----------



## WEF

Schikitar said:


> I thought that heat belts had to be in full contact with something otherwise they can overheat/melt/<insert disaster here>? :O
> 
> Pretty sure my Fermzilla has a leak in the lid somewhere. I only had the standard airlock on it for the first few days but there was zero action in the bubbler everytime I checked it BUT my fridge had that distinctive 'fermenting beer' smell. Haven't located the leak just yet as activity has died down already, I suspect the carbonation cap I've got on there for liquid out (it was leaking when I was cleaning it as well but thought I fixed it). Will be changing out the airlock with another carbonation cap so I'm hoping that doesn't double my problems once I put a bit of pressure on the unit. I was looking to carbonate in the Fermzilla and bottling from there with a bottling gun (normally I'd pressure transfer to keg but this is a stout going into longnecks).



I had an issue where my carb cap was leaking, lucky i caught this out before putting the wort in. I managed to sort it out, i think it occurred when i screwed the carb cap on too tight and the rubber seal somehow got messed up. The solution was to reseat the seal in the carb cap and apply just over hand pressure when tightening it up.


----------



## ABG

WEF said:


> Geez... mine doesn't get that hot but maybe the higher duty cycle at 35c was the main factor. I run with that cheapy 10w silicon type heat band from Kegland. Twas only abot $10 on memory so i'll keep an eye on it as i dont trust crude heating devices like this especially after seeing sparks from our 10 year old electric blanket a couple of months ago due to failed cabling, as a result we threw the electric blanket out and just use heat packs...
> I couldn't see the heat belt it getting any hotter than 50c but i'll check on my next run.


Same heat belt that I use. I've never had problems with it sitting on my fridge floor before, but I've never had my temperature controller sitting at 35C before either. Interestingly, the belt was fine, despite the fridge starting to melt, but I get where you're coming from with cheap electrical devices.
Apologies for my post questioning your allegiances. My bullshit detector goes into overdrive when someone new comes on board and only posts comments that are pro one side and negative the other. There's been too much of it on here over the past year or 2. Welcome on board and I look forward to hearing your posts re brewing.


----------



## FreeBSD

goatchop41 said:


> Even better - screw a hook in to the roof of your fermenting chamber and hang it from that. Now it doesn't contact anything and all of the heat from it spreads to the surrounding area, as opposed to a heap of it being absorbed by the bottom of the chamber that it is sitting on


Heat needs to come from the bottom and the yeast activity will cause convection in the liquid to distribute it.


----------



## WEF

Nullnvoid said:


> Hey, that was me I think. Although I wasn't having a go, I just asked the question and then didn't even bother replying after that. It was more tongue in cheek than anything.
> 
> Was purely because there is this perception when someone comes on board and speaks the way you did it is suspicious and has happened before, but mainly with Keg-King employees.


Fair enough...


----------



## Mya

goatchop41 said:


> Even better - screw a hook in to the roof of your fermenting chamber and hang it from that. Now it doesn't contact anything and all of the heat from it spreads to the surrounding area, as opposed to a heap of it being absorbed by the bottom of the chamber that it is sitting on



Kind of defeats the whole purpose of the heating belt then, may as well just use any old heating source.

I've experimented using ambient heating rather than direct contact and it is extremely inefficient. If it is quite cold outside of your chamber (probably not too much of a problem in aussie, but for example last week in NZ with temps at 5 overnight, I wasn't able to get my fermenter above 20.5 degC for diacetyl rest with ambient only heating into my 200L fermentation fridge with good seals etc), or you're trying to brew a kveik strain, you're shit outta luck. Plus warming the air of an entire chamber of air (with very low heat capacity) vs directly heating the water (with a very high heat capacity) is inherently very inefficient in terms of energy use, and also takes a lot longer to actually warm up the fermenter eg for diacetyl rest, but I imagine most don't care about energy inefficiency.

The whole "heat rises" thing applies to large spaces but if we're talking about a tiny chamber just holding a 30L fermenter the air is sufficiently homogeneous that there will be a very negligible temperature gradient except for within a few inches of the heat source.

WEAL posted a reference that PET could handle 120F or 49C, my heating belt gets so hot that it can't be touched for more than a second, so would be well above 70C. The other issue is getting effective sanitation with the likes of sodium percarb that likes the water to be hot as hell to get an effective sanitation.


----------



## WEF

ABG said:


> Same heat belt that I use. I've never had problems with it sitting on my fridge floor before, but I've never had my temperature controller sitting at 35C before either. Interestingly, the belt was fine, despite the fridge starting to melt, but I get where you're coming from with cheap electrical devices.
> Apologies for my post questioning your allegiances. My bullshit detector goes into overdrive when someone new comes on board and only posts comments that are pro one side and negative the other. There's been too much of it on here over the past year or 2. Welcome on board and I look forward to hearing your posts re brewing.



No probs i understand and thanks for your post, water under the bridge now. I might just hang around some more


----------



## WEF

Mya said:


> Kind of defeats the whole purpose of the heating belt then, may as well just use any old heating source.
> 
> I've experimented using ambient heating rather than direct contact and it is extremely inefficient. If it is quite cold outside of your chamber (probably not too much of a problem in aussie, but for example last week in NZ with temps at 5 overnight, I wasn't able to get my fermenter above 20.5 degC for diacetyl rest with ambient only heating into my 200L fermentation fridge with good seals etc), or you're trying to brew a kveik strain, you're shit outta luck. Plus warming the air of an entire chamber of air (with very low heat capacity) vs directly heating the water (with a very high heat capacity) is inherently very inefficient in terms of energy use, and also takes a lot longer to actually warm up the fermenter eg for diacetyl rest, but I imagine most don't care about energy inefficiency.
> 
> The whole "heat rises" thing applies to large spaces but if we're talking about a tiny chamber just holding a 30L fermenter the air is sufficiently homogeneous that there will be a very negligible temperature gradient except for within a few inches of the heat source.
> 
> WEAL posted a reference that PET could handle 120F or 49C, my heating belt gets so hot that it can't be touched for more than a second, so would be well above 70C. The other issue is getting effective sanitation with the likes of sodium percarb that likes the water to be hot as hell to get an effective sanitation.



The FermZilla comes with drill out holes in the lid for future upgrades in the pipeline, assuming they'll be for temp probe and heater wand of some sort. Would a heating wand placed directly into the wort be the most effective way of keeping temps consistent and stable? Also, i'd be a little concerned how close the temp probe would be to the heating wand in a setup like this...


----------



## KegLand-com-au

ABG said:


> Same heat belt that I use. I've never had problems with it sitting on my fridge floor before, but I've never had my temperature controller sitting at 35C before either. Interestingly, the belt was fine, despite the fridge starting to melt, but I get where you're coming from with cheap electrical devices.
> Apologies for my post questioning your allegiances. My bullshit detector goes into overdrive when someone new comes on board and only posts comments that are pro one side and negative the other. There's been too much of it on here over the past year or 2. Welcome on board and I look forward to hearing your posts re brewing.




Yes the heat belt is not our recommendation for this reason. The heat belt has reasonable watt density. Also a lot of customers tend to insulate around the heat belt as well meaning the surface temperature is even higher. Our recommendation has always been to purchase the heat wrap like this one:

https://www.kegland.com.au/heating-belt-30-watt-853.html


This one has the same wattage but it's much more gentle. I think customers find it a bit more of a pain to use because it doesn't just sit tight on the circumference of the fermenter unless you use masking tape however it does actually work better and it doesnt cost any more than the heat belt. In fact I think these have been on special for the past few weeks.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

WEF said:


> The FermZilla comes with drill out holes in the lid for future upgrades in the pipeline, assuming they'll be for temp probe and heater wand of some sort. Would a heating wand placed directly into the wort be the most effective way of keeping temps consistent and stable? Also, i'd be a little concerned how close the temp probe would be to the heating wand in a setup like this...



Yes we do have a coil that can fit to the lid and this will be released soon. 

Some customers do use heating want like the glass aquarium or reptile glass heating wands. The main issue with this design is also the watt density. When you have a high watt density (either for cooling or heating) you create two problems inside a fermenter:
1. The localised heat can put stress on yeast if it comes in close contact with the surface of the device which is inevitable if it's immersed.
2. If you have a hot or cold spot in a fermenter that is hotter or colder than the other parts of the fermenter you will get convection currents in the fermenter and this makes it significantly more difficult for yeast and other solids to flocculate.

So I know a lot of customers like the idea of directly heating the wort with an element of some sort or directly chilling it with a glycol coil and this will be possible with the accessories that we are making but in reality it's hard to beat a dedicated fermenting fridge whereby you heat and cool the air surrounding the fermenter as this is the most even heating/cooling that you can apply to the fermenter.


----------



## Nullnvoid

KegLand-com-au said:


> Yes the heat belt is not our recommendation for this reason. The heat belt has reasonable watt density. Also a lot of customers tend to insulate around the heat belt as well meaning the surface temperature is even higher. Our recommendation has always been to purchase the heat wrap like this one:
> 
> https://www.kegland.com.au/heating-belt-30-watt-853.html
> 
> 
> This one has the same wattage but it's much more gentle. I think customers find it a bit more of a pain to use because it doesn't just sit tight on the circumference of the fermenter unless you use masking tape however it does actually work better and it doesnt cost any more than the heat belt. In fact I think these have been on special for the past few weeks.



Ahh thanks for this info, glad I read this before I bought one. This is a little contradictory to what I asked on the facebook group the other week however and from that feedback I was going to buy the heatbelt!

Thanks for clearing this up


----------



## WEF

KegLand-com-au said:


> Yes we do have a coil that can fit to the lid and this will be released soon.
> 
> Some customers do use heating want like the glass aquarium or reptile glass heating wands. The main issue with this design is also the watt density. When you have a high watt density (either for cooling or heating) you create two problems inside a fermenter:
> 1. The localised heat can put stress on yeast if it comes in close contact with the surface of the device which is inevitable if it's immersed.
> 2. If you have a hot or cold spot in a fermenter that is hotter or colder than the other parts of the fermenter you will get convection currents in the fermenter and this makes it significantly more difficult for yeast and other solids to flocculate.
> 
> So I know a lot of customers like the idea of directly heating the wort with an element of some sort or directly chilling it with a glycol coil and this will be possible with the accessories that we are making but in reality it's hard to beat a dedicated fermenting fridge whereby you heat and cool the air surrounding the fermenter as this is the most even heating/cooling that you can apply to the fermenter.



Good news on the heat coil, thanks for confirming this!

My current setup with he heat belt on the fridge floor seems to be working fine (seems to be equivalent to you recommendation) though i know it can only be improved so i would love to get a temp probe inside the fermenter rather than my current setup where it is strapped to the side and protected by a layer of thermal tape and foam to concentrate the reading from the fermenter side rather than the surrounding air. Should i look at adding/modify the lid to add a thermowell/temp probe or do you have something in the pipeline for this as well?


----------



## goatchop41

FreeBSD said:


> Heat needs to come from the bottom and the yeast activity will cause convection in the liquid to distribute it.



Yeah, nah...If you warm the entire space around it, then the whole body of liquid is being heated by the ambient environment, and not just from one specific point.


----------



## Schikitar

WEF said:


> I had an issue where my carb cap was leaking, lucky i caught this out before putting the wort in. I managed to sort it out, i think it occurred when i screwed the carb cap on too tight and the rubber seal somehow got messed up. The solution was to reseat the seal in the carb cap and apply just over hand pressure when tightening it up.



That fixed it, thanks!


----------



## SpaceClef

goatchop41 said:


> Maybe don't whinge about it until you actually put it under some pressure and see if it just pops out?


lel hardly a 'whinge' mate. Thought my posts were pretty objective to be honest and was just letting the other guy know that theirs isn't the only one with dents.

I like KegLand have no issues getting a damaged product as long as there's an opportunity to get it replaced. KL has since offered a replacement which is great. Would have preferred an offer within the first few emails but I get it that minor dents are an expected part of the manufacturing process and KL didn't want an avalanche of returns. 

FYI the dent doesn't just push back into place. Doesn't matter how hard you press. It was obvious holding it in front of me that it wasn't going to. It's a bit silly that someone should have to heat up PET or have a CO2 rig before they query it


----------



## sixfignig

@KegLand-com-au 

With a very decent purge via the carb caps in the yeast container, do you think it's reasonable to assume you could remove 100% of oxygen?


----------



## Kenf

wide eyed and legless said:


> Reading Reg's post (106) about 'hot fill' I did look up what it was, a lot of juices get hot filled into PET bottles which can take close to boiling. For the bog standard plastics I came across this list.
> 
> *What are the hot fill temperatures for the plastic bottles?*
> Hot fill temperatures for plastic bottles and jars.
> 
> PET (polyethylene terephthalate) 120°F
> PS (polystyrene) 150°F
> HDPE (high density polyethylene) 145°F
> LDPE (low density polyethylene) 120°F
> PP (polypropylene) 165°F
> PVC (polyvinyl chloride) 140°F
> 
> NOTE: The information provided above is intended to provide a relative comparison of plastic resin hot fill temperatures and should only be used as guide during the selection process. Individual plastic bottle resins may have hot fill temperatures that vary from those listed above. It is the buyer's responsibility to make the final determination as to whether a given bottle is suitable for their hot fill process. Chemical and temperature compatibility testing is, and will always be, the final determining factor in the bottle selection process.


Thanks for that WEAL - I was going to mention where I used to work we made and filled plastic juice bottles & the clear plastic bottles were filled at temperatures above 50! Actually it had to be above 90 for shelf stability but below 95 or the bottle would melt! Glass on the other hand was 98!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

SpaceClef said:


> lel
> 
> FYI the dent doesn't just push back into place. Doesn't matter how hard you press. It was obvious holding it in front of me that it wasn't going to. It's a bit silly that someone should have to heat up PET or have a CO2 rig before they query it


I think of plastic pretty much like fishing line, they have memory from manufacture, it would be difficult if not impossible to fix.
Good to see they are replacing it.


----------



## Truman42

Hmmmmm.. So do I bite the bullet and buy one of these hyped up fermzillas tomorrow? Wait and see what KK have hidden under that jumper? Or keep using my SS Brewtech 7 G chronical and be happy with 1 fermenter?

Decisions decisions....


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Truman42 said:


> Hmmmmm.. So do I bite the bullet and buy one of these hyped up fermzillas tomorrow? Wait and see what KK have hidden under that jumper? Or keep using my SS Brewtech 7 G chronical and be happy with 1 fermenter?
> 
> Decisions decisions....


"Open the box"


----------



## sp0rk

WEF said:


> Not sure, i'll inspect it when i decide to clean it and will clean if needed.
> 
> 
> No need to wrap the belt around fermenter, just lay it on the floor.





goatchop41 said:


> Even better - screw a hook in to the roof of your fermenting chamber and hang it from that. Now it doesn't contact anything and all of the heat from it spreads to the surrounding area, as opposed to a heap of it being absorbed by the bottom of the chamber that it is sitting on


Yeah don't do that
Heat belts are not air heating elements, their surface watt density is too high and they don't have any fins or surface area for radiating heat
They're designed to pass heat via direct contact
I've seen them melt and catch fire
9 times out of 10 nothing will happen, but there is the chance they'll burn your house down


----------



## Dan Pratt

sp0rk said:


> Yeah don't do that
> Heat belts are not air heating elements, their surface watt density is too high and they don't have any fins or surface area for radiating heat
> They're designed to pass heat via direct contact
> I've seen them melt and catch fire
> 9 times out of 10 nothing will happen, but there is the chance they'll burn your house down



fark you have me worried, Ive had my heat belts just sitting at the base of the fridge for about the past 5yrs.....


----------



## sp0rk

You'll notice if you put your hand on a free hanging heat belt it'll be pretty hot
Put your hand on a heat mat and it's no where near as hot
All about surface watt density
Put the belt around a fermenter, or at the very least around a cube/jerry of water so it's passing the heat to something that will accept it readily and retain it better


----------



## Joshed1

Truman42 said:


> Hmmmmm.. So do I bite the bullet and buy one of these hyped up fermzillas tomorrow? Wait and see what KK have hidden under that jumper? Or keep using my SS Brewtech 7 G chronical and be happy with 1 fermenter?
> 
> Decisions decisions....


I'm in exactly the same boat here


----------



## Mya

WEF said:


> Good news on the heat coil, thanks for confirming this!
> 
> My current setup with he heat belt on the fridge floor seems to be working fine (seems to be equivalent to you recommendation) though i know it can only be improved so i would love to get a temp probe inside the fermenter rather than my current setup where it is strapped to the side and protected by a layer of thermal tape and foam to concentrate the reading from the fermenter side rather than the surrounding air. Should i look at adding/modify the lid to add a thermowell/temp probe or do you have something in the pipeline for this as well?


Just add a thermowell if you want one, don't wait for them to release one. A hole saw through the lid and $15 thermowell from aliexpress and you're sorted.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

Fermzilla's are live... if you're waiting. I was.


----------



## soreba

I Grabbed a 55L a couple mins after midnight.. Site was pretty slow so there must have been quite a few people ordering!


----------



## Cam82

Has anyone got rid of the frame and just stood the FermZilla up in their fermenter fridge on the collection container? I find the stand is to deep for my fridge and wont fit.


----------



## goatchop41

sp0rk said:


> Yeah don't do that
> Heat belts are not air heating elements, their surface watt density is too high and they don't have any fins or surface area for radiating heat
> They're designed to pass heat via direct contact
> I've seen them melt and catch fire
> 9 times out of 10 nothing will happen, but there is the chance they'll burn your house down



Fair enough, I stand corrected! Looks like I'll be putting it around my fermenter from now on then


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

Can anyone confirm, who has purchased one of the 27 litre fermzilla's in the latest shipment, if they got the stainless handle with their model. Cheers


----------



## Ferment8

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> Can anyone confirm, who has purchased one of the 27 litre fermzilla's in the latest shipment, if they got the stainless handle with their model. Cheers


My fermzilla ordered on the 30th June did not have stainless handles

EDIT: had the handles on the stand


----------



## awfulknauful

I got no handles, maybe they are sending them out later.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> Can anyone confirm, who has purchased one of the 27 litre fermzilla's in the latest shipment, if they got the stainless handle with their model. Cheers



Those handles aren’t in the description or image of the FermZilla and, they aren’t in stock individually so I’m not expecting to get them…


----------



## Truman42

soreba said:


> I Grabbed a 55L a couple mins after midnight.. Site was pretty slow so there must have been quite a few people ordering!


Lucky you did as they are now out of stock on the 55 litre.


----------



## awfulknauful

TheBeerBaron said:


> Those handles aren’t in the description or image of the FermZilla and, they aren’t in stock individually so I’m not expecting to get them…


See post 2155 in Keg Land Q & A section 10. Quote Improved handle design on the neck of the fermenter making it easier to pick up and maneuvre.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

awfulknauful said:


> See post 2155 in Keg Land Q & A section 10. Quote Improved handle design on the neck of the fermenter making it easier to pick up and maneuvre.



I do remember seeing that post, I’d be glad if they did come included. But based on the description on the site, I’m not expecting them to!

*edit* I think I also remember them saying the handle upgrade would also increase the price by $10.. I only paid the original price of $130 so I don’t think that upgrade has gone through yet


----------



## awfulknauful

TheBeerBaron said:


> I do remember seeing that post, I’d be glad if they did come included. But based on the description on the site, I’m not expecting them to!
> 
> *edit* I think I also remember them saying the handle upgrade would also increase the price by $10.. I only paid the original price of $130 so I don’t think that upgrade has gone through yet


As it reads in their post 2155, reads to me like it comes as standard. Link to paying an extra $10 for the handle


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

I was told that the handle wasn't included in the first 2 shipments but will be included in future. The price will go up by $10 once that happens. 

Because the price hasn't gone up I was wondering if they were coming included yet.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

awfulknauful said:


> As it reads in their post 2155, reads to me like it comes as standard. Link to paying an extra $10 for the handle


Certainly does read that they are included, as FOC says they changed their mind by this post.

The stainless handles are rated for lifting the FermZilla when full. The same handle can also lift the 55L model as well. The handles themselves can lift well over 100kg. In the initial designs we did try to make the handles plastic and have them integrated into the neck of the fermenter but the long term strength was questionable and the stainless handles add about $10 to the price so it's not that much more to pay to get the much better quality handles.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

wide eyed and legless said:


> Certainly does read that they are included, as FOC says they changed their mind by this post.
> 
> The stainless handles are rated for lifting the FermZilla when full. The same handle can also lift the 55L model as well. The handles themselves can lift well over 100kg. In the initial designs we did try to make the handles plastic and have them integrated into the neck of the fermenter but the long term strength was questionable and the stainless handles add about $10 to the price so it's not that much more to pay to get the much better quality handles.



What is said on a third party forum versus what is stated on the actual website where you’re buying from are two different things. 

I’d defer to going with the latter for what you’re getting. If people are expecting the stainless handles on this shipment are probably going to be disappointed. Not worth waiting for the next batch in my opinion...


----------



## wide eyed and legless

TheBeerBaron said:


> What is said on a third party forum versus what is stated on the actual website where you’re buying from are two different things...


I wouldn't call their Questions and Answers a third party forum, it is where brewers go for advice, if the advice posted by KL isn't kosher there's not much point in them posting there.


----------



## theredone

Truman42 said:


> Lucky you did as they are now out of stock on the 55 litre.



i was up at 7am to order... out of stock.... bit disappointing 

wouldnt have thought it was such a limited run, and if it was maybe have it release at a reasonable time not midnight.


----------



## awfulknauful

It's not a big deal about the handles, the good news is they are prepared to exchange any that are delivered with the dents in them.


----------



## Truman42

theredone said:


> i was up at 7am to order... out of stock.... bit disappointing
> 
> wouldnt have thought it was such a limited run, and if it was maybe have it release at a reasonable time not midnight.


Yeah like when they open up in the morning. So I wonder if they just got more stock in of the 27l or if the 55l is more popular as they still have 27l in stock.


----------



## tonymc

I was on at 7am this morning to get a 55L was in stock then. went back in at about 12 and all out of stock. Must have got one of the last ones


----------



## theredone

i thought it was a website error so ive been refreshing every now and then. the 27's are out of stock too around 3ish i think it was. glad they are doing well. just salty i didnt get one.... held out on a brewday and fairly sizable order for a week waiting


----------



## Truman42

I held off as I wasnt 100% convinced I want one. Looks like Ive now got until the 18th August to decide. KK must be spewing about all these lost sales to KL and there new version of the Fermentasuarus would want to be good to win customers back again.


----------



## FreeBSD

Truman42 said:


> I held off as I wasnt 100% convinced I want one. Looks like Ive now got until the 18th August to decide. KK must be spewing about all these lost sales to KL and there new version of the Fermentasuarus would want to be good to win customers back again.


Reckon you are right but then again they seem to have sold a lot of the snub nose units from what I can see. I would love to get a preview of what is coming but they don't seem to be as keen as KL to show stuff that they don't yet have available. The temp control idea is what has me going.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Truman42 said:


> I held off as I wasnt 100% convinced I want one. Looks like Ive now got until the 18th August to decide. KK must be spewing about all these lost sales to KL and there new version of the Fermentasuarus would want to be good to win customers back again.


How many lost sales? From what I have been reading there only seems to be a handful of punters who actually have them. I also think the shoe is on the other foot with all the snub nose fermenters which have been sold, not only here but also USA.


----------



## Nullnvoid

This might not forum might not be indicitive of sales mind you....


----------



## Truman42

wide eyed and legless said:


> How many lost sales? From what I have been reading there only seems to be a handful of punters who actually have them. I also think the shoe is on the other foot with all the snub nose fermenters which have been sold, not only here but also USA.


Ohh ok, I certainly dont know how many KL got shipped in, was it just 50, 100, 300, or up around 1000?? But whatever it was they sold out. I also didnt know that KK were selling lots of the snub nose here and in the USA.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Nullnvoid said:


> This forum might not be indicitive of sales mind you....


Especially if it is the same many hundreds of punters who bought the Canular Canning machine, who have been buying the Fermzillas, I don't trust them they are to secretive.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

Truman42 said:


> I held off as I wasnt 100% convinced I want one. Looks like Ive now got until the 18th August to decide. KK must be spewing about all these lost sales to KL and there new version of the Fermentasuarus would want to be good to win customers back again.



Where’s the link / thread regarding the new KK fermentasaurus ??


----------



## wide eyed and legless

TheBeerBaron said:


> Where’s the link / thread regarding the new KK fermentasaurus ??


In the fermentasaurus thread.


----------



## awfulknauful

Well I finished and have kegged my beer, the dent is still there, didn't hinder the ferment in any way but it just looks so unsightly.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

FreeBSD said:


> Reckon you are right but then again they seem to have sold a lot of the snub nose units from what I can see. I would love to get a preview of what is coming but they don't seem to be as keen as KL to show stuff that they don't yet have available. The temp control idea is what has me going.


That's 3 people now who I know that know about the the temperature control unit.


----------



## Truman42

wide eyed and legless said:


> That's 3 people now who I know that know about the the temperature control unit.


whats the temperature control unit???


----------



## WEF

wide eyed and legless said:


> That's 3 people now who I know that know about the the temperature control unit.


I second that, what temp controller unit are you referring to?


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

If you want to advertise the fermentasaurus do it the fermentasaurus thread. This is the fermzilla thread.


----------



## Ferment8

OK so went to do a pressure transfer last night but the lid will not seal. I didnt ferment under pressure so didnt realise until last night.
Air is escaping between the 2 pieces of lid. There is an undamaged o ring in the insert piece and that fits in nce and snug. Ive had it tight and bloody tight but still just gushes out. Any ideas?
Cheers


----------



## Schikitar

Ferment8 said:


> Any ideas?


Try not so tight, also, I'd try some keg lube on the seal..


----------



## Half-baked

I went and lost an o-ring for one of my carb caps. Any ideas where I can get a replacement?


----------



## Ferment8

Schikitar said:


> Try not so tight, also, I'd try some keg lube on the seal..


Cheers. I'll give it a go


----------



## soreba

The 55L has landed! Its bigger than it looks.

https://imgur.com/a/N1ues0b


----------



## wide eyed and legless

WEF said:


> I second that, what temp controller unit are you referring to?


There are 2 different types as far as I know, the boffins are in the process of testing them, possibly be the days of the fermenting fridge will be over, no matter what fermenter you have.


----------



## Nullnvoid

That's huge!


----------



## Abird89

soreba said:


> The 55L has landed! Its bigger than it looks.
> 
> https://imgur.com/a/N1ues0b



Looks a bit like an inflated condom


----------



## Thomas Wood

Cam82 said:


> Has anyone got rid of the frame and just stood the FermZilla up in their fermenter fridge on the collection container? I find the stand is to deep for my fridge and wont fit.


I would also love to know this.


----------



## WEF

Abird89 said:


> Looks a bit like an inflated condom


A bit on the small side but yeah i see what you mean...


----------



## WEF

wide eyed and legless said:


> There are 2 different types as far as I know, the boffins are in the process of testing them, possibly be the days of the fermenting fridge will be over, no matter what fermenter you have.


Hmmm...ok, could it be the heater coil KL referred to a few pages back?


----------



## goatchop41

Cam82 said:


> Has anyone got rid of the frame and just stood the FermZilla up in their fermenter fridge on the collection container? I find the stand is to deep for my fridge and wont fit.





Thomas Wood said:


> I would also love to know this.



This sounds like an absolutely terrible idea. There's no way that it would be designed or rated to take that much weight on the container...


----------



## goatchop41

wide eyed and legless said:


> There are 2 different types as far as I know, the boffins are in the process of testing them, possibly be the days of the fermenting fridge will be over, no matter what fermenter you have.





WEF said:


> Hmmm...ok, could it be the heater coil KL referred to a few pages back?



@WEF no, given that user's history of posting, I VERY highly doubt it is anything to do with that. It is almost certainly something to do with something that KK is doing.
Once again claiming to not be affiliated with KK, but then posting about their products that are under development, which are unknown to the rest of the public...


----------



## Reg Holt

goatchop41 said:


> This sounds like an absolutely terrible idea. There's no way that it would be designed or rated to take that much weight on the container...


That is what Keg Land recommend.

The fermenting fridge will be about $500 but it will still be at least a couple months unti lit's released.

without the stand and collection container the FermZilla can fit into a Series 4 and also you can fit the splunding valve and other stuff onto the posts on the lid and you have enough clearance for this.


----------



## Fro-Daddy

@Reg Holt The user here is asking to stand it on the collection bottle, KL suggest to remove the collection bottle.


----------



## Reg Holt

Ah, didn't realise he wanted to stand it on the bottle best idea is fill it with water and see, would only be up for the cost of a new container. Though if it isn't coming with lifting handles now how can it be lifted?
This is where the Snubbies have the edge, fits into a small fridge even with the stand and spunding valve.


----------



## dkril

Reg Holt said:


> Ah, didn't realise he wanted to stand it on the bottle best idea is fill it with water and see, would only be up for the cost of a new container. Though if it isn't coming with lifting handles now how can it be lifted?
> This is where the Snubbies have the edge, fits into a small fridge even with the stand and spunding valve.


Give it a hug. If you're trying to put it in a fridge with low clearance, handles on the top of the unit are going to be useless anyway.


----------



## Reg Holt

dkril said:


> Give it a hug. If you're trying to put it in a fridge with low clearance, handles on the top of the unit are going to be useless anyway.


Either that or fork out another $500 for a FermZilla fridge. Good business strategy.


----------



## Fro-Daddy

Why jump to an extreme when someone could just get a larger fridge for $50 second hand and re-use their existing temperature controller?
Worst case, another $50 for an Inkbird.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

Fro-Daddy said:


> Why jump to an extreme when someone could just get a larger fridge for $50 second hand and re-use their existing temperature controller?
> Worst case, another $50 for an Inkbird.



I think you’ll find a couple of users on this thread are just here to throw shade... that’s why


----------



## wide eyed and legless

goatchop41 said:


> @WEF no, given that user's history of posting, I VERY highly doubt it is anything to do with that. It is almost certainly something to do with something that KK is doing.
> Once again claiming to not be affiliated with KK, but then posting about their products that are under development, which are unknown to the rest of the public...


I got mentioned here months ago.
https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/what-can-we-expect-in-2019.99783/
I have as much affiliation to KK as The Beer Baron and WEF has to KL


----------



## theredone

Fermentation fridge for me is a 400ish litre fridge only Westinghouse, about 150 bucks on gumtree and an old tempmate, will fit 55 fermzilla in there easy


----------



## Thomas Wood

Fro-Daddy said:


> @Reg Holt The user here is asking to stand it on the collection bottle, KL suggest to remove the collection bottle.


Good to know I can at least fit it without the collection bottle. Cheers guys.

I wonder how easy it will be to collect the yeast post fermentation then with the collection bottle. Can't be worse then just scooping a jar into the bottom of my current fermenter.


----------



## nathanvonbeerenstein

These vessels stand can also be flipped and used without the collection jar. I like to take off the valve handle when doing this to avoid accidentally dumping sweet liquid gold on the ground. You can use the edges of the slightly larger stand as a handle to take it in and out of a fridge. You can also rest the vessel on the collection while full of wort doing this. It is not made of flexible plastic like the body, but instead durable, strong Tritan plastic. Just don’t drop it on hard surfaces or knock the posts off and you’ll be sweet.


----------



## awfulknauful

Seems like a waste of time and defeating the purpose taking off the collection bottle, better off getting a fridge that it can fit in assembled. With the stand upside down isn't achieving anything.
I can also see a couple of dents in the near one.


----------



## FreeBSD

nathanvonbeerenstein said:


> View attachment 116149
> 
> These vessels stand can also be flipped and used without the collection jar. I like to take off the valve handle when doing this to avoid accidentally dumping sweet liquid gold on the ground. You can use the edges of the slightly larger stand as a handle to take it in and out of a fridge. You can also rest the vessel on the collection while full of wort doing this. It is not made of flexible plastic like the body, but instead durable, strong Tritan plastic. Just don’t drop it on hard surfaces or knock the posts off and you’ll be sweet.View attachment 116150


Well for what it costs I reckon its better to grab a snub nose for $55 less and not have to do all these acrobatics. Maybe they will do a snub nose zilla? No chance of liquid gold in the frisbee or on the floor.


----------



## Teebs

Schikitar said:


> Put my first batch of beer into my new Fermzilla yesterday, a gluten free stout which was a real pain to brew BTW! Thankfully the transfer and everything else about the Fermzilla was nice and easy. Discovered that it's pretty easy to over tighten the fittings on the unit, hand tightening is enough but those carbonation caps are slippery buggers. Overall, much better than the Fermentasaurus (which I was borrowing off my brother), I used to have a real problem transferring from my kettle to that unit, the Fermzilla _just_ sits at a height I can work with for the transfer which is nice.
> 
> Anyway, I'm happy with my purchase, there are a lot of solutions out there, just do your own research and find what works best for you!



I'm about to put on a gluten free stout Brewzilla/Fermzilla. Why was the brew a pain? Any tips to share to make it not a pain?


----------



## KegLand-com-au

If you really want to temp control the FermZilla - Conical Unitank without a fridge then this coil is one option for you:

Temp Twister - Stainless Coil
https://www.kegland.com.au/temp-twi...zilla-or-kegmenter-with-a-glycol-chiller.html

If you use this coil in conjunction with one of these jackets it might be the solution you are looking for.
https://www.kegland.com.au/jacket-for-27l-fermzilla.html

With that said if you really want a fermenter to fit into your smaller Series 4 Kegerator we have two other shorter designs that will be available in a couple months and these have no dump valve.

It will not have a cone like the Snub Nose because the cone in this product makes no sense. So in a couple months time we have a range of flat Bottom FermZilla units that we will sell for about $20-30 and these will not hold much pressure (less than 5psi). Then we also have a new range of FermZilla that have dome top and bottom and a stand and this unit holds about 3bar so it can be used like a keg or fermenter and this unit will be about $60-70 approximately and available in sizes from 30-55L. So this is probably what I would recommend you purchase if you really want a fermenter to fit into your Series 4 Keg Fridge. Otherwise if you can wait for the dedicated fermentation fridge then you should be able to purchase this at the end of this year.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

It will not have a cone like the Snub Nose because the cone in this product makes no sense. So in a couple months time we have a range of flat Bottom FermZilla units that we will sell for about $20-30 and these will not hold much pressure (less than 5psi). Then we also have a new range of FermZilla that have dome top and bottom and a stand and this unit holds about 3bar so it can be used like a keg or fermenter and this unit will be about $60-70 approximately and available in sizes from 30-55L. So this is probably what I would recommend you purchase if you really want a fermenter to fit into your Series 4 Keg Fridge. Otherwise if you can wait for the dedicated fermentation fridge then you should be able to purchase this at the end of this year.[/QUOTE]


Not having a cone like the snub nose makes no sense? A flat bottom FermZilla makes sense? Doesn't hold pressure? A domed bottom FermZilla makes sense?
Priority is to get the FermZilla out into the market place without dents, now that makes sense.


----------



## soreba

KegLand-com-au said:


> If you really want to temp control the FermZilla - Conical Unitank without a fridge then this coil is one option for you:
> 
> Temp Twister - Stainless Coil
> https://www.kegland.com.au/temp-twi...zilla-or-kegmenter-with-a-glycol-chiller.html
> 
> If you use this coil in conjunction with one of these jackets it might be the solution you are looking for.
> https://www.kegland.com.au/jacket-for-27l-fermzilla.html



When is the "Temp Twister" going to be available and will there be a jacket available in the future for the 55L?


----------



## Flavourybitterness

Is there any chance you can twist the “temp twister” into a corny keg?!


----------



## Fro-Daddy

wide eyed and legless said:


> Not having a cone like the snub nose makes no sense?


Lots of wasted space creates an unnecessarily high fermenter



wide eyed and legless said:


> A flat bottom FermZilla makes sense?


Yes, as above



wide eyed and legless said:


> Doesn't hold pressure?


Good thing you only like ~2psi, sounds like it would suit you perfectly



wide eyed and legless said:


> A domed bottom FermZilla makes sense?


This I agree with, not quite sure what the goal is yet


----------



## Schikitar

I would imagine a domed bottom would allow for beer to pool at the bottom easier, might even be good for a corny keg replacement..? Would be good if they were stackable with easy access to the beer/gas posts..


----------



## KegLand-com-au

wide eyed and legless said:


> It will not have a cone like the Snub Nose because the cone in this product makes no sense. So in a couple months time we have a range of flat Bottom FermZilla units that we will sell for about $20-30 and these will not hold much pressure (less than 5psi). Then we also have a new range of FermZilla that have dome top and bottom and a stand and this unit holds about 3bar so it can be used like a keg or fermenter and this unit will be about $60-70 approximately and available in sizes from 30-55L. So this is probably what I would recommend you purchase if you really want a fermenter to fit into your Series 4 Keg Fridge. Otherwise if you can wait for the dedicated fermentation fridge then you should be able to purchase this at the end of this year.




Not having a cone like the snub nose makes no sense? A flat bottom FermZilla makes sense? Doesn't hold pressure? A domed bottom FermZilla makes sense?
Priority is to get the FermZilla out into the market place without dents, now that makes sense.[/QUOTE]

A flat bottom non-pressurisable fermenter is the most basic and least expensive product to supply to a customer which is why it's at the lowest price bracket.

What makes sense is to provide a range of fermenters at different price point and with differing feature set. Some customers don't need to hold pressure and they might want to save a buck. So the FermZilla - Flat Bottom Is for them as it will be about $100 cheaper than the FermZilla Conical Tank currently is.

The reason why the beer industry generally use a cone on a tank is because the cone allows you to collect and then dump the contents of the cone. If you want to make a pressure vessel that doen't dump anything from the cone you really should make the end a dome as a dome is:
1. More compact and will reduce the height of the tank
2. A dome will hold more pressure than a cone
3. As far as blow moulding the vessel a dome end is less problematic to blow and in most instances gives you better material distribution. This results in superior stretch ratio, improved clarity and improved gas barrier and physical properties of the tank.

A cone on a tank comes at a sacrifice. The benefit of being able to dump out of the cone is a great enough benefit to sacrifice some of it's attributes as a pressure vessel. Well this would be the case with a normal conical uni-tank. So to be more clear. When I say it "makes no sense" the snub nose cone has none of the benefits of a cone, only the constraints. This to me "makes no sense".


----------



## RobB

So if I'm picturing them correctly and they both have the same Fermzilla lid, the flat bottom will essentially be a rival to the better-bottle but with a wider neck and lower price tag while the dome bottom is simply a PET kegmenter. These will be much more fridge-friendly options than the current conical model and I'm happy with the good old swish-and-tip method of yeast harvesting.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Fro-Daddy said:


> Lots of wasted space creates an unnecessarily high fermenter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> $18 .22 cost, can take pressure, and a hot water wash. 80 mm lower and less capacity than a snub nose.
> 
> Good thing you only like ~2psi, sounds like it would suit you perfectly.
> Wouldn't suit a lot of people.
> 
> This I agree with, not quite sure what the goal is yet


----------



## Fro-Daddy

Not the same diameter as the chubby snubby though is it


----------



## wide eyed and legless

The chubby snubby is not as chubby as the fat fermzilla.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

soreba said:


> When is the "Temp Twister" going to be available and will there be a jacket available in the future for the 55L?



We don't have the exact date yet but I think the Temp Twister and the cooling jacket will be in stock in about 3-4 weeks


----------



## Reg Holt

KegLand-com-au said:


> Not having a cone like the snub nose makes no sense? A flat bottom FermZilla makes sense? Doesn't hold pressure? A domed bottom FermZilla makes sense?
> Priority is to get the FermZilla out into the market place without dents, now that makes sense.



A flat bottom non-pressurisable fermenter is the most basic and least expensive product to supply to a customer which is why it's at the lowest price bracket.

What makes sense is to provide a range of fermenters at different price point and with differing feature set. Some customers don't need to hold pressure and they might want to save a buck. So the FermZilla - Flat Bottom Is for them as it will be about $100 cheaper than the FermZilla Conical Tank currently is.

The reason why the beer industry generally use a cone on a tank is because the cone allows you to collect and then dump the contents of the cone. If you want to make a pressure vessel that doen't dump anything from the cone you really should make the end a dome as a dome is:
1. More compact and will reduce the height of the tank
2. A dome will hold more pressure than a cone
3. As far as blow moulding the vessel a dome end is less problematic to blow and in most instances gives you better material distribution. This results in superior stretch ratio, improved clarity and improved gas barrier and physical properties of the tank.

A cone on a tank comes at a sacrifice. The benefit of being able to dump out of the cone is a great enough benefit to sacrifice some of it's attributes as a pressure vessel. Well this would be the case with a normal conical uni-tank. So to be more clear. When I say it "makes no sense" the snub nose cone has none of the benefits of a cone, only the constraints. This to me "makes no sense".[/QUOTE]
1. I would have said a dome would be about the same height as a FermZilla with the 90 degree included angle.
2. What difference in pressure are we talking, my understanding is most people would not go much higher than 15 PSI, my snubbies do that even with the ball valves in.
3. Don't know the ins and outs of blow molding, if its going to be easier go for it, sounds like those large 50 litre PET kegs with a dome bottom which KK have. (If they read these posts you might have just given the game away.)
I got 2 snubbies for around the same price as a FermZilla, pressure transfer off the yeast, into secondary tip out the saved yeast easy. And the best part is they can easily fit into a kegerator S4,


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Reg Holt said:


> A flat bottom non-pressurisable fermenter is the most basic and least expensive product to supply to a customer which is why it's at the lowest price bracket.
> 
> What makes sense is to provide a range of fermenters at different price point and with differing feature set. Some customers don't need to hold pressure and they might want to save a buck. So the FermZilla - Flat Bottom Is for them as it will be about $100 cheaper than the FermZilla Conical Tank currently is.
> 
> The reason why the beer industry generally use a cone on a tank is because the cone allows you to collect and then dump the contents of the cone. If you want to make a pressure vessel that doen't dump anything from the cone you really should make the end a dome as a dome is:
> 1. More compact and will reduce the height of the tank
> 2. A dome will hold more pressure than a cone
> 3. As far as blow moulding the vessel a dome end is less problematic to blow and in most instances gives you better material distribution. This results in superior stretch ratio, improved clarity and improved gas barrier and physical properties of the tank.
> 
> A cone on a tank comes at a sacrifice. The benefit of being able to dump out of the cone is a great enough benefit to sacrifice some of it's attributes as a pressure vessel. Well this would be the case with a normal conical uni-tank. So to be more clear. When I say it "makes no sense" the snub nose cone has none of the benefits of a cone, only the constraints. This to me "makes no sense".


1. I would have said a dome would be about the same height as a FermZilla with the 90 degree included angle.
2. What difference in pressure are we talking, my understanding is most people would not go much higher than 15 PSI, my snubbies do that even with the ball valves in.
3. Don't know the ins and outs of blow molding, if its going to be easier go for it, sounds like those large 50 litre PET kegs with a dome bottom which KK have. (If they read these posts you might have just given the game away.)
I got 2 snubbies for around the same price as a FermZilla, pressure transfer off the yeast, into secondary tip out the saved yeast easy. And the best part is they can easily fit into a kegerator S4,[/QUOTE]


1. The dome on the base reduces the overall height of the FermZilla with dome on the bottom by about 15% when compared with a similar cone shape.
2. Yes if you are happy with 15psi then that might be all you require. In some instances customers may want to force carbonate or use the FermZilla as a keg. So the higher pressures simply make it a more versatile tank.
3. The large 50L PET kegs would need a total overhaul. The opening at the top is only about 60mm making it really too small to be used as a fermenter. Even the snub has an opening which is arguably too small now that the FermZilla exists. As mentioned the FermZilla units that will begin to arrive in 2 months are more compact than the Snub nose so they will fit into the Series 4 Kegerator even more easily, they will cost less, hold significant pressure, have a much larger opening at the top, have more accessories available.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

3. Plenty of folk use a 28 litre cubes or jerrycans as fermenters, they have an even smaller opening and work fine. $9.00 for a cube can't get more thrifty than that.


----------



## Fro-Daddy

Reg Holt said:


> And the best part is they can easily fit into a kegerator S4


I thought you were against expensive fermenting fridges?
Personally, I think using a kegerator to ferment in is just silly.


----------



## sp0rk

KegLand-com-au said:


> 3. The large 50L PET kegs would need a total overhaul. The opening at the top is only about 60mm making it really too small to be used as a fermenter. Even the snub has an opening which is arguably too small now that the FermZilla exists. As mentioned the FermZilla units that will begin to arrive in 2 months are more compact than the Snub nose so they will fit into the Series 4 Kegerator even more easily, they will cost less, hold significant pressure, have a much larger opening at the top, have more accessories available.


I use cubes and jerrycans as fermenters all the time, brewed many award winning beers with them and they have 40mm to 60mm openings...
You make a lot of claims about how things are unsuitable etc or your products are "better" but there seems to be little to no actual proven basis for those claims


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Fro-Daddy said:


> I thought you were against expensive fermenting fridges?
> Personally, I think using a kegerator to ferment in is just silly.



Yes would tend to agree with you. Fermenting fridge is a great idea but you need a separate fridge to keep your kegs in and trying to make one model that is good for both is really is not the best solution.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

sp0rk said:


> I use cubes and jerrycans as fermenters all the time, brewed many award winning beers with them and they have 40mm to 60mm openings...
> You make a lot of claims about how things are unsuitable etc or your products are "better" but there seems to be little to no actual proven basis for those claims



When we distributed the Fermentasaurus it was a common customer complaint that the opening was not big enough which is why we designed the FermZilla with a much larger opening at the top. Certainly it's possible to ferment with very small openings. Some customers ferment in juice bottles and also get good results. With that said it's not preferable but the vast number of customers that we talk to. Having a fermenter that you can get your arm inside and wipe off the krausen is something that many customers have specially said they want. We sell these Cubes for $9.95 and if they really made such good fermenters I am sure we would see a lot of people choosing this very inexpensive option. I think if we sold this as our recommended fermenter we would have a lot of customer complaints.


----------



## Schikitar

Well I personally love the idea of a cheaper, flat bottomed or domed Fermzilla, I'd be keen to use them as kegs or for the ocassional ferment where I'm not fussed about dumping out the bottom valve. The most attractive part is the clear PET material, but I should say it would hold more value to me if it is heat resistant (unlike the Fermzilla)..


----------



## Reg Holt

Fro-Daddy said:


> I thought you were against expensive fermenting fridges?
> Personally, I think using a kegerator to ferment in is just silly.


Me too, the only reason I mentioned Kegerator was to indicate the minimum size needed, doesn't necessarily mean they are cheaper to run either.


----------



## SpaceClef

First batch is in the fermzilla currently chugging away at 12 psi. Had no dramas with holding pressure which was nice. 

I did stupidly assume that the o rings supplied with the unit needed to be installed before use, so I dissembled the whole thing (kinda helpful to know how to do it for future reference I guess). 

Kinda tricky opening the collection container without spillage but i guess it’s a matter of getting used to it. Presumably you have to depressurise the whole unit before shutting off the butterfly value and unscrewing the collection container?


----------



## TheBeerBaron

SpaceClef said:


> Kinda tricky opening the collection container without spillage but i guess it’s a matter of getting used to it. Presumably you have to depressurise the whole unit before shutting off the butterfly value and unscrewing the collection container?



I closed the butterfly valve, and slowly cracked the bottle cap on the collection container to release pressure. Then unscrewed the whole thing. You do get a bit of mess but all in all, quite fuss free.


----------



## Ferment8

I'll definitely be using a tray or container under the collection jar next time i take it off.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

Ferment8 said:


> I'll definitely be using a tray or container under the collection jar next time i take it off.



Yep, I used an old shallow metal pie dish I stole from the kitchen!


----------



## Ferment8

That's pretty much what i was thinking!


----------



## Thriftee

Is the fermzilla thermowell able to be used under pressure?

https://www.kegland.com.au/60cm-thermowell-1-4inch-duotight-bulkhead-included.html

At 35psi there'll be ~2.7lb.f ejection force acting on it, is a duotight fitting going to hold this?


----------



## Mya

On the duotight fitting page:

*No clamps necessary! 
We do recommend cutting your hosing straight, not on an angle, to ensure the line has a complete seal. To remove the fitting simply push in the collet and the hose can be removed. These push in fittings are suitable to be used up to 100 psi.*


----------



## Thomas Wood

TheBeerBaron said:


> Yep, I used an old shallow metal pie dish I stole from the kitchen!


In the video they used a Frisbee underneath. Did that today and it worked perfectly. No mess left the jar/Frisbee


----------



## BrEWinther

Greetings, Australia. I've registered her so I could ask @KegLand-com-au this:

I've just taken delivery of FermZilla 27L and I'm looking forward to using on my next brew day.
However, before I can do that, I need to clean it. That's where I run into problems. From the FermZilla manual:

9.Only use chemical cleaners and sanitizers that are approved by Kegland. These include:
a) Super Kill Ethyl Sanitiser Spray (KL05371)
b) StellarSan (mixed to the correct specification) (KL05357)
c) StellarClean (KL05494)

- none of which are available here in Denmark


My question to KegLand is:

Which, if any, of the following products that *are* available here can I use to clean and sanitize my new FermZilla


Isopropyl Alcohol 70% (spray)
http://datablade.novadan.dk/dokumenter/1083-1-en.pdf
http://datablade.novadan.dk/dokumenter/1083-2-en.pdf


Five Star:

PBW
StarSan
SaniClean
https://www.fivestarchemicals.com/breweries/homebrewing/products/


Chemipro ® OXI
https://www.brouwland.com/en/our-products/cleaning/cleaning-products/d/chemipro-oxi-1-kg-fles


VWP Cleaner/Sterilizer
https://www.vwpcleanersteriliser.co.uk/


Grainfather High Performance Cleaner
https://shop.grainfather.com/high-performance-cleaner-500g.html



Thanks in advance.


----------



## Lindsten

Hello! 

I have my first beer fermenting in my new fermzilla right now. It’s a pilsner fermented with 34/70. It has fermented 2v now. 1 week in 54F and 1 week in 60F. It has fermenting under pressure from start (~18psi).

How do I get the last yeast down in the bottom?


----------



## Substance

G'day Lads & Ladettes,
only been brewing a year odd with 34 brews under the belt
grabbed the long awaited Fermzilla in 27L and finished my 1st brew in it a All In Brew Citra Pale Ale with 100g of Citra hops added on day 4 via the bottom entry, which certainly woke it up when I cracked it, so might need a bit more pressure closer to the main vessel left in the bottom tub after the purge to sedate it a bit. 
as noted i did it as a pressurized brew fermentation (also a 1st) at about 10 psi using the Bowtie valve setup followed by a pressurized transfer to direct to keg, what a better way this is, like keg to keg so damn easy 

so far so good, absolute no issues with my unit no dents or leaks (or spills) or anything so far 

my only question or issue is,
how do we check the Final gravity if the beer is already carbonated, as i am of the understanding that it is only accurate if checking the wort precarbonation to determine final alcohol value ? ?
sorry if i missed this somewhere and its been answered else where 

cheers & keep up the great work


----------



## nathanvonbeerenstein

Lindsten said:


> Hello!
> 
> I have my first beer fermenting in my new fermzilla right now. It’s a pilsner fermented with 34/70. It has fermented 2v now. 1 week in 54F and 1 week in 60F. It has fermenting under pressure from start (~18psi).
> 
> How do I get the last yeast down in the bottom?View attachment 116357



Cold crashing will help get the last of the yeast, as will giving it a very gentle circular swirl if all else fails.


----------



## Schikitar

BrEWinther said:


> Which, if any, of the following products that *are* available here can I use to clean and sanitize my new FermZilla


You can definitely use Isopropyl spray, StarSan and PBW at normal dosage rates, I'm not familiar with the other items you listed but these ones inparticular will be fine!


----------



## Lindsten

nathanvonbeerenstein said:


> Cold crashing will help get the last of the yeast, as will giving it a very gentle circular swirl if all else fails.



I will try that! I leave a report later on the result


----------



## Dan Pratt

Lindsten said:


> I will try that! I leave a report later on the result



also just turn the valve a few times and it should fall through that space. 

actually dissapointed it still does that after making the base neck of the FV larger.....


----------



## Grmblz

Substance said:


> my only question or issue is,
> how do we check the Final gravity if the beer is already carbonated, as i am of the understanding that it is only accurate if checking the wort precarbonation to determine final alcohol value ? ?
> sorry if i missed this somewhere and its been answered else where
> 
> Just use a pluto gun/party tap connected to liquid out post, take a sample and put to one side for an hour, it allows co2 to dissipate and also the temp to rise if you cold crashed, remember most hydrometers are calibrated at 20c.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

Dan Pratt said:


> also just turn the valve a few times and it should fall through that space.
> 
> actually dissapointed it still does that after making the base neck of the FV larger.....



The yeast on the sides of the cone above the valve probably won’t fall into the collection container even with cold crash.. I think it’s just a fine layer that gets stuck to the inside of the cone..


----------



## Grmblz

BrEWinther said:


> Greetings, Australia. I've registered her so I could ask @KegLand-com-au this:
> 
> I've just taken delivery of FermZilla 27L and I'm looking forward to using on my next brew day.
> However, before I can do that, I need to clean it. That's where I run into problems. From the FermZilla manual:
> 
> 9.Only use chemical cleaners and sanitizers that are approved by Kegland. These include:
> a) Super Kill Ethyl Sanitiser Spray (KL05371)
> b) StellarSan (mixed to the correct specification) (KL05357)
> c) StellarClean (KL05494)
> 
> - none of which are available here in Denmark
> 
> 
> My question to KegLand is:
> 
> Which, if any, of the following products that *are* available here can I use to clean and sanitize my new FermZilla
> 
> 
> Isopropyl Alcohol 70% (spray)
> http://datablade.novadan.dk/dokumenter/1083-1-en.pdf
> http://datablade.novadan.dk/dokumenter/1083-2-en.pdf
> 
> 
> Five Star:
> 
> PBW
> StarSan
> SaniClean
> https://www.fivestarchemicals.com/breweries/homebrewing/products/
> 
> 
> Chemipro ® OXI
> https://www.brouwland.com/en/our-products/cleaning/cleaning-products/d/chemipro-oxi-1-kg-fles
> 
> 
> VWP Cleaner/Sterilizer
> https://www.vwpcleanersteriliser.co.uk/
> 
> 
> Grainfather High Performance Cleaner
> https://shop.grainfather.com/high-performance-cleaner-500g.html
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance.


All of the Five star stuff is ok, as is sodium percarbonate. I don't know about the other stuff. I don't work for Kegland but do use these chemicals on my Fermzilla. It's PET no different to soda bottles.


----------



## Grmblz

Thriftee said:


> Is the fermzilla thermowell able to be used under pressure?
> 
> https://www.kegland.com.au/60cm-thermowell-1-4inch-duotight-bulkhead-included.html
> 
> At 35psi there'll be ~2.7lb.f ejection force acting on it, is a duotight fitting going to hold this?


Khee recommends cutting a fine groove using a pipe cutter so the duo has something to grip, it's why their pressure guages have a groove machined into them.


----------



## Meddo

Grmblz said:


> Khee recommends cutting a fine groove using a pipe cutter so the duo has something to grip, it's why their pressure guages have a groove machined into them.


According to the YouTube video the groove should be 15mm from the tube end to line up with their duotight fittings.


----------



## jimreevescairns

First brew in the fermzilla. Omnipollo 4:21 vanilla raspberry milkshake IPA. Chucked the raspberries in the top after primary fermentation and dry hopped 230g mosaic pellets through the bottom tonight. 
Great seeing the process as if happens unlike my old bucket. The colour change is amazing!
Planning to do closed transfer for the first time but going to be interesting with all those raspberries floating around with the dip tube.
Never used fruit before - will it sink with the cold crash ? I will find out anyway but interested in others experience 
Cheers Jim


----------



## BrEWinther

Thanks for the replies, @Schikitar and @Grmblz..

I will try your recommendation ( I'm starting to run out of beer ), but would have preferred an official answer from @KegLand-com-au


----------



## Substance

thanks @Grmblz so flat beer at room temp to match the starting gravity sample is all it needs to be, knew it would be something simple 
Cheers 
D


----------



## Schikitar

jimreevescairns said:


> Planning to do closed transfer for the first time but going to be interesting with all those raspberries floating around with the dip tube.
> Never used fruit before - will it sink with the cold crash ?


I did a Raspberry Citra Milkshake IPA a while back (it was delicious by the way so I think you'll enjoy your brew), that said, I bagged the raspberries in a large grain bag as it can get messy. Do the cold crash but I'm not sure if they'll all sink or not, you may have to backflush the liquid out post with CO2 if the pickup tube gets blocked..


----------



## jimreevescairns

Thank you Schikitar - considered a bag but felt I’d get more out of them if free. May try it next time depending on how I go


----------



## Half-baked

BrEWinther said:


> I will try your recommendation ( I'm starting to run out of beer ), but would have preferred an official answer from @KegLand-com-au



Don’t know if Kegland monitor other threads, next time try posting on the Kegland question and answer thread. 

But you’ll just get the same advice: same stuff but the KL versions...


----------



## BrewsWayne

A pair of 27 FermZillas arrived in Colorado today, to join a 65L BrewZilla and 35L DigiBoil.

All of the products showed up with NO dings, dents or scratches.


----------



## WEF

BrewsWayne said:


> A pair of 27 FermZillas arrived in Colorado today, to join a 65L BrewZilla and 35L DigiBoil.
> 
> All of the products showed up with NO dings, dents or scratches.
> View attachment 116374



You can cut those silicon pickup tubes a bit shorter so that they are sitting on the butterfly valve with a straight lead.

Another cheap and extremely effective "mod" i did with my Fermzilla was drilling a large hole in a Coke lid and putting a 6" length of Silicon hose in it with a small hole drilled into the side wall where a small digital thermometer probe is inserted, then the outlet of my Grainfather counter flow chiller hose is inserted into this 6" hose which can now be screwed onto the FermZilla providing me with an inline temperature readout on the fly and is a good way of holding the silicon hose into place so that it doesn't slip out during the transfer process.


----------



## BrewsWayne

Thank you for the suggestions. I will give them a try when I finally start using the gear.
Cheers


----------



## pauly

Long time lurker here, I've just received my Fermzilla (no dents or scratches!) and am looking forward to putting down a few brews but I'm not sure the best way to dry hop.

Previously I'd just load the dry hops into a hop sock and chuck them in the top of the fermenter and forget about it. Since I can, I'd like to do a ferment under pressure and then an enclosed transfer to a keg. I saw a Celler Dwellers video where Gash used the collection container to dry hop, to be honest it didn't look like it worked that well! I guess I can always release the pressure, throw them in through the top, then purge with co2, but that seems like a waste and fiddly. I am also toying with picking up one of these and just dry hopping in the keg which seems like the simplest option to me, but I am a bit wary of leaving the hops there too long as I am not a fast drinker.

Any recommendations?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

This is in another thread.
https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/kk-fermentasaurus-conical-pet-fermenter.93589/page-18


----------



## Paddy

Pauly I copied the IP of the magnets in a metal hop ball for a light load and used the collection bottle on the Fermzilla for a heavy load. Hops made it all the way to the top in a flash, was worried about a following bang, and turned out a very nice drop.


----------



## Schikitar

pauly said:


> I saw a Celler Dwellers video where Gash used the collection container to dry hop, to be honest it didn't look like it worked that well!


I've dry hopped through the container, just a couple tips; make sure you've dumped most of the trub from the FZ (via the container) first, then when you screw the container back on you'll need to connect gas to it (about 30psi) and purge the container about 8 times and then open the valve. Alternatively, just release the pressure from the FZ and crack the top lid and dry hop through there, unless you're making something like a NEIPA then I wouldn't be too concerned..


----------



## pauly

wide eyed and legless said:


> This is in another thread.
> https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/kk-fermentasaurus-conical-pet-fermenter.93589/page-18



Thanks for the link, that's a very neat idea with the magnets.

The Minister of Finance approved the purchase of a kegerator. Unfortunately that was contingent on the fermenting fridge being retired, which is why I'm trying out the Fermzilla. Probably won't work for me as I'd have the hops at room temp too long.


----------



## pauly

Paddy said:


> Pauly I copied the IP of the magnets in a metal hop ball for a light load and used the collection bottle on the Fermzilla for a heavy load. Hops made it all the way to the top in a flash, was worried about a following bang, and turned out a very nice drop.


Thanks for the report, I think I will give the collection bottle a go then!


----------



## pauly

Schikitar said:


> I've dry hopped through the container, just a couple tips; make sure you've dumped most of the trub from the FZ (via the container) first, then when you screw the container back on you'll need to connect gas to it (about 30psi) and purge the container about 8 times and then open the valve. Alternatively, just release the pressure from the FZ and crack the top lid and dry hop through there, unless you're making something like a NEIPA then I wouldn't be too concerned..



Good to hear you and Paddy have successfully used the container to dry hop.

I actually have a NEIPA FWK from grain & grape, but that will be the second or third ferment. I guess with this I would do the first dry hop through the top and then the second through the container. Do you have any tips for it?


----------



## TheBeerBaron

Schikitar said:


> I've dry hopped through the container, just a couple tips; make sure you've dumped most of the trub from the FZ (via the container) first, then when you screw the container back on you'll need to connect gas to it (about 30psi) and purge the container about 8 times and then open the valve. Alternatively, just release the pressure from the FZ and crack the top lid and dry hop through there, unless you're making something like a NEIPA then I wouldn't be too concerned..



I did exactly this, dumped trub, cleaned & sanitised the container, 100g of hops in, attach back onto FV and purged. Opened the valve and bingo. Also, just to see what happened, re-attached gas to collection container and pulled the PRV up top which results in gas bubbling through container and really bubbling all the pellets up into the main body. Worked perfectly!


----------



## theredone

wide eyed and legless said:


> Reading Reg's post (106) about 'hot fill' I did look up what it was, a lot of juices get hot filled into PET bottles which can take close to boiling. For the bog standard plastics I came across this list.
> 
> *What are the hot fill temperatures for the plastic bottles?*
> Hot fill temperatures for plastic bottles and jars.
> 
> PET (polyethylene terephthalate) 120°F
> PS (polystyrene) 150°F
> HDPE (high density polyethylene) 145°F
> LDPE (low density polyethylene) 120°F
> PP (polypropylene) 165°F
> PVC (polyvinyl chloride) 140°F
> 
> NOTE: The information provided above is intended to provide a relative comparison of plastic resin hot fill temperatures and should only be used as guide during the selection process. Individual plastic bottle resins may have hot fill temperatures that vary from those listed above. It is the buyer's responsibility to make the final determination as to whether a given bottle is suitable for their hot fill process. Chemical and temperature compatibility testing is, and will always be, the final determining factor in the bottle selection process.




just put my first brew in the 55, should have read this first i guess... transferred in at 60 degrees and left it overnight, had a look this morning and there are dints where it touches the frame, should have cooled it down a bit more but thought 60 should be ok. normally id droip it to about 40 but it was late at night and way past my bedtime.
will try putting some hot water in it to see if i can pop them out a bit later but i would be doubtfull.


----------



## pauly

Pretty sure someone asked if the FZ would fit in a series 4 kegerator. If you remove the collection container it just squeezes in along with one keg.

Not sure I'd be doing this regularly though, and I'd look at taking off the dump valve handle next time I do it.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

theredone said:


> just put my first brew in the 55, should have read this first i guess... transferred in at 60 degrees and left it overnight, had a look this morning and there are dints where it touches the frame, should have cooled it down a bit more but thought 60 should be ok. normally id droip it to about 40 but it was late at night and way past my bedtime.
> will try putting some hot water in it to see if i can pop them out a bit later but i would be doubtfull.


I wouldn't be using it for any pressure ferments now just in case it has compromised the pressure rating.


----------



## buckerooni

pauly said:


> Pretty sure someone asked if the FZ would fit in a series 4 kegerator. If you remove the collection container it just squeezes in along with one keg.
> 
> Not sure I'd be doing this regularly though, and I'd look at taking off the dump valve handle next time I do it.View attachment 116542


one of those stainless QDs with a 90 deg thread would give u a bit more room too. I put some beer line between the QD and the valve


----------



## theredone

whats everyone doing for yeast harvesting? collection from collection container and build up again with starter? or just take collection container off to clean fermenter then pitch back ontop without a building a starter up?

EDIT: im using the 55ltr


----------



## nala

Recently bought a 27 ltr Fermzilla, decided to test it for pressure and set the spunding valve.
I have a leak somewhere and can't find it !
Using soapy water in a spray bottle isn't finding the leak anybody got a suggestion?


----------



## Drewgong

nala said:


> Recently bought a 27 ltr Fermzilla, decided to test it for pressure and set the spunding valve.
> I have a leak somewhere and can't find it !
> Using soapy water in a spray bottle isn't finding the leak anybody got a suggestion?


Got a big tub you could partially submerge the fermzilla in or a pool? obviously fill the fermzilla 3/4 full of water to make it easier to sink.


----------



## Schikitar

nala said:


> Using soapy water in a spray bottle isn't finding the leak anybody got a suggestion?


Fill it with liquid and turn it upside down, it's likely the carb posts..


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Schikitar said:


> Fill it with liquid and turn it upside down, it's likely the carb posts..



Yes we have seen some of the carbonation caps like these ones where the rubber seal gets chopped up:
https://www.kegland.com.au/carbonation-line-cleaning-cap.html

I actually prefer these red plastic ones that cost less.
https://www.kegland.com.au/plastic-carbonation-line-cleaning-cap-fermzilla-cap.html
We will soon sell these as a pack of 10 and the cost will be about $20 for a 10pack. So you can take them to parties and it's not a bit deal if you loose them.

The red ones also have no "o-ring" or "washer". The hard engineering plastic seals directly onto the neck of the bottle without a seal so there is no conventional seal to loose or get damaged.


----------



## pauly

nala said:


> Recently bought a 27 ltr Fermzilla, decided to test it for pressure and set the spunding valve.
> I have a leak somewhere and can't find it !
> Using soapy water in a spray bottle isn't finding the leak anybody got a suggestion?



I find the carb caps need a bit of extra tightening on my one. When I assembled it there was a leak in the bottom too, not where the collection bottle is but the parts above it. I ended up disassembling it all, lubing it, and hand tightening it and it's now good. 

I find for the top I need to hand tighten it then back it off a bit rather than tighten it more, it can be a bit counter intuitive. 

I agree with Schikitar about turning it upside down, but that doesn't help you when you've got a brew going to practice a bit first.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

pauly said:


> I find the carb caps need a bit of extra tightening on my one. When I assembled it there was a leak in the bottom too, not where the collection bottle is but the parts above it. I ended up disassembling it all, lubing it, and hand tightening it and it's now good.
> 
> I find for the top I need to hand tighten it then back it off a bit rather than tighten it more, it can be a bit counter intuitive.
> 
> I agree with Schikitar about turning it upside down, but that doesn't help you when you've got a brew going to practice a bit first.



Yes I would agree. Lube really helps a lot especially with the larger diameter seals. The Haynes lubri film does the trick and you only need a very small amount but this makes a huge difference.


----------



## Schikitar

pauly said:


> I agree with Schikitar about turning it upside down, but that doesn't help you when you've got a brew going to practice a bit first.



Yeah, I mean I usually check the posts, the container seal and the cap/posts on the container aren't leaking when I sanitise the fermenter (just before dropping wort into it). So I fill it with about 5-10L of santisier, put some pressure on it and then check the bottom container seal for leaks, then open the dump valve and check the container posts etc., aren't leaking and finally I invert the FZ to make sure the lid and top posts aren't leaking. I had a terrible time the first time because I over tightened everything, learnt that I just has to hand tighten and then even back them off a smidge (or tighten them a smidge) to get the seal just right. 

It's the only big flaw of this unit, finding the sweet spot for all the seals.

I had to replace the the bottom seal because I thought the included tool was for ensuring a really tight fit - turns out you shouldn't even need that tool, certainly not to tighten anything!


----------



## nala

Schikitar said:


> Yeah, I mean I usually check the posts, the container seal and the cap/posts on the container aren't leaking when I sanitise the fermenter (just before dropping wort into it). So I fill it with about 5-10L of santisier, put some pressure on it and then check the bottom container seal for leaks, then open the dump valve and check the container posts etc., aren't leaking and finally I invert the FZ to make sure the lid and top posts aren't leaking. I had a terrible time the first time because I over tightened everything, learnt that I just has to hand tighten and then even back them off a smidge (or tighten them a smidge) to get the seal just right.
> 
> It's the only big flaw of this unit, finding the sweet spot for all the seals.
> 
> I had to replace the the bottom seal because I thought the included tool was for ensuring a really tight fit - turns out you shouldn't even need that tool, certainly not to tighten anything!



Thanks to all who replied I appreciate your helpful suggestions very much, thank you.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

nala said:


> Thanks to all who replied I appreciate your helpful suggestions very much, thank you.



Thanks for the feedback Schikitar. Much appreciated and I am sure others appreciate this too.

Yes the tool is really only for taking it apart. You can get it tighter than you should need by hand when putting the dump valve or lid on.


----------



## nala

Further to my previous post thanking members for their help.
Having used a bottle of gas to try to resolve this issue my visiting son suggested that I should use a bike tyre pump
with an attached quick disconnect instead of gas, I am posting a picture of what I did, also adopting the suggestion of immersing the top and bottom of the Fermzilla in my pool to detect the leak.
I pumped up the Fermzilla to 15 psi and could see where the problem lay, all resolved now, thanks once again.


----------



## Half-baked

nala said:


> I pumped up the Fermzilla to 15 psi and could see where the problem lay, all resolved now, thanks once again.



I need closure... where was it?


----------



## RopesNZ

Hi guys.

Looking forward to breaking in my Fermzilla sometime soon but just wondering if anybody is doing pressure fermentation? And when do you start it?

My idea was to set the fermenter in the fermentation fridge, have the carbonation caps on both posts and a spunding valve on one, set it at like 10psi from the get go? Then have a picnic tap coming out from the other one for samples.

Does this sound about right? How is everyone else going about it??

Cheers


----------



## Grmblz

Half-baked said:


> I need closure... where was it?


+1


----------



## Grmblz

RopesNZ said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> Looking forward to breaking in my Fermzilla sometime soon but just wondering if anybody is doing pressure fermentation? And when do you start it?
> 
> My idea was to set the fermenter in the fermentation fridge, have the carbonation caps on both posts and a spunding valve on one, set it at like 10psi from the get go? Then have a picnic tap coming out from the other one for samples.
> 
> Does this sound about right? How is everyone else going about it??
> 
> Cheers


Ooooh! can of worms there ropes, some will say pressure stresses the yeast, others say that's bollocks and point to hydro-static pressure at the bottom of tall commercial fermenters, then there's the what type of beer are you brewing, and are you going to serve from the fermzy using a floating dip tube or transfer to keg, I brew ales (1050 +) in my fermzy, no pressure for 3 to 4 days (use the c02 to purge kegs) then apply 10psi, and the same as you suggest a picnic tap or pluto gun for samples and serving or transferring to keg at the end of fermentation.


----------



## Schikitar

Yeah lots of opinions here but yeast stress I feel isn't really one of them anymore, not with a healthy pitch. Anyway, I usually let the initial ferment go real low at about 3psi, after it's just past peak primary I then ramp to about 12psi. When I'm ready for cold crash I connect CO2 at 15psi and cold crash for two days, then pressure transfer to keg and your beer is carbonated and ready to go. I brew predominantly ales though.. this works for me but there will be a hundred other approaches for everyone else, you just gotta find what works for you!

Just one thing, if you plan to pressure ferment and also use the bottom container for dry hopping then be sure to purge the FZ headspace of pressure (via the PRV) just prior to closing the bottom valve. Then remove the container, maybe just cracking one of the side lids to relieve some pressure. It's a tricky area to work with and can get a bit messy - have sanitiser spray, bowls/plates, papertowel/cloths on hand. Also, make sure you purge the container with CO2 when you reconnect it but before you reopen the dump valve so you minimise O2 exposure - it's also a good way to double check that once you've screwed it back on that you don't have a leak BEFORE you open that valve..


----------



## nala

Half-baked said:


> I need closure... where was it?


Leaking from the out connector on the cap...one which I had installed, not quite sealing around the grommet.


----------



## Elmar

RopesNZ said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> Looking forward to breaking in my Fermzilla sometime soon but just wondering if anybody is doing pressure fermentation? And when do you start it?
> 
> My idea was to set the fermenter in the fermentation fridge, have the carbonation caps on both posts and a spunding valve on one, set it at like 10psi from the get go? Then have a picnic tap coming out from the other one for samples.
> 
> Does this sound about right? How is everyone else going about it??
> 
> Cheers


This a Schwarzbier I have on the go at the moment:
Fermzilla Schwarze Lilie16/09/19
Time:10:00
Temperature: 12°
Yeast: 2packs(23g), 
Fermentis W-34/70
Pressure: 8psi,
OG: [email protected]°
17/09: no visible action 10:00, good action 19:00, 9psi
18/09/: 6:30 good action, 20psi!!!, turning back to achieve 8-10psi
19/09/: fermenting well, 9psi,
20/09/: good action, 9psi, cleaned 2 kegs, left 5l San in one and used pressure from fermzilla to push into second keg with spunding valve attached, took half a day to get back to 9psi
21/09/: actively fermenting, 10psi, trub dropping out more
22/09/: slow fermenting, dialled temp up to 14°C from 12°, 1.020 gravity
23/09/: fermenting slow, dialled temperature up to 16.5°, 8psi, 
24/09/: slow fermenting, dialled temperature up to 18°, 
1.016 gravity, 14psi,
26/09/: slow fermenting, 11psi, 18°C, 1.014
28/09/: still fermenting, 11psi, 18°, 1.013

Finished at 1.013 and now cold crashed to 4°C
Cheers Elmar


----------



## RopesNZ

Thanks for the replies. So it sounds like you guys are just fermenting with the pressure created from the start. I mean if you don't how do you do it? Just unscrew the airlock cap and put on the carb cap when you want to change it over? 

I'm sure I'm overthinking this haha

Cheers


----------



## Elmar

RopesNZ said:


> Thanks for the replies. So it sounds like you guys are just fermenting with the pressure created from the start. I mean if you don't how do you do it? Just unscrew the airlock cap and put on the carb cap when you want to change it over?
> 
> I'm sure I'm overthinking this haha
> 
> Cheers


Yes ropes
I started with 8psi of CO2 pumped into Zilla and everything went really well from there. Slight loss of pressure whenever I took a sample, but back to original pressure that evening.
When I cold crashed I put an extra 2psi into Zilla because I wasn't sure what pressure drop I'd get. Proved to be minimal though.
Elmar


----------



## Elmar

RopesNZ said:


> Thanks for the replies. So it sounds like you guys are just fermenting with the pressure created from the start. I mean if you don't how do you do it? Just unscrew the airlock cap and put on the carb cap when you want to change it over?
> 
> I'm sure I'm overthinking this haha
> 
> Cheers


Maybe also have a look at this video on YouTube


----------



## theredone

so dry hopping.... i used the collection container to throw about 400g of hops in just before i went away for work. came back and the hopes are just a visible compressed hop cake down in that container, a lot of them still pellatized, im thinking maybe i should have dumped a tub or two or trub and junk out first as that would have been whats held the hops down in there?

for this batch while not ideal ive just had to tip collection container full of hops back in from the top and purge a couple of times. not ideal i know, fermentation has finished and its cold crashing but at least wanted to get something out of 40 bucks of hops


----------



## Vic

Elmar said:


> Yes ropes
> I started with 8psi of CO2 pumped into Zilla and everything went really well from there. Slight loss of pressure whenever I took a sample, but back to original pressure that evening.
> When I cold crashed I put an extra 2psi into Zilla because I wasn't sure what pressure drop I'd get. Proved to be minimal though.
> Elmar[/QUOT





theredone said:


> so dry hopping.... i used the collection container to throw about 400g of hops in just before i went away for work. came back and the hopes are just a visible compressed hop cake down in that container, a lot of them still pellatized, im thinking maybe i should have dumped a tub or two or trub and junk out first as that would have been whats held the hops down in there?
> 
> for this batch while not ideal ive just had to tip collection container full of hops back in from the top and purge a couple of times. not ideal i know, fermentation has finished and its cold crashing but at least wanted to get something out of 40 bucks of hops


An easy way to dry hop using a Fermzilla and keeping O2 out. If under pressure, release pressure via PRV. Remove gas post, don't worry, air won't enter, liquid will still be giving up CO2. Using a funnel add hops via the opening where the gas post was. Don't worry about releasing pressure, little carbonation will be lost. You can always add some extra CO2 if you wish. If not fermenting under pressure, connect a CO2 line to the liquid post, set regulator to minimum. Turn gas on until bubbles can be seen coming out the dip tube, remove gas post & dry hop. EASY.


----------



## Schikitar

RopesNZ said:


> So it sounds like you guys are just fermenting with the pressure created from the start. I mean if you don't how do you do it? Just unscrew the airlock cap and put on the carb cap when you want to change it over?


I have carb caps on both posts of my lid, one for gas and the other for liquid (also have a carb cap on one of the posts of the collection container just incase I need to push gas through from the bottom but haven't really needed it. I've never used the airlock cap. I keep a blowtie assembly connected to the gas post to let pressure out when it goes above the pressure settings I mentioned before.



theredone said:


> came back and the hopes are just a visible compressed hop cake down in that container, a lot of them still pellatized, im thinking maybe i should have dumped a tub or two or trub and junk out first


I had the same problem recently, always a good idea to dump at least one container of trub. Anyway, I just pulled the whole thing out and inverted it, gave it a bit of a shake until the hops got down into suspension. It all settled out properly and I still didn't have to crack the lid. 



Vic said:


> Using a funnel add hops via the opening where the gas post was


Not a bad idea, will add this trick to the list!


----------



## pauly

I don't find dry-hopping via the collection container very easy with anything other than a standard strength beer. With a 1060 IPA I found that even after dumping the trub half the pellets would not rise as more junk had settled on top as soon as I opened the valve. I ended up picking it up and tipping it upside down, bit of a mare all told. Foolishly, knowing this, I thought I'd give it another go with a NEIPA which had had a 175g dry hop at pitch and of course (as you can predict) it was even worse! I found that I needed to clean (water blast and then starsan blast) the underside of the valve as it was so clogged up that I couldn't get it to seal on the collection container, hops got a bit wet from the starsan I suppose and glued themselves to the bottom.

I will probably try Vic's suggestion above hopping via the cap opening, although I would be wary of a volcano there.

I might also just come to terms that I will be turning it upside down at some point, so I might as well continue to hop through the container, then turn it upside down prior to opening the valve.


----------



## Vic

pauly said:


> I don't find dry-hopping via the collection container very easy with anything other than a standard strength beer. With a 1060 IPA I found that even after dumping the trub half the pellets would not rise as more junk had settled on top as soon as I opened the valve. I ended up picking it up and tipping it upside down, bit of a mare all told. Foolishly, knowing this, I thought I'd give it another go with a NEIPA which had had a 175g dry hop at pitch and of course (as you can predict) it was even worse! I found that I needed to clean (water blast and then starsan blast) the underside of the valve as it was so clogged up that I couldn't get it to seal on the collection container, hops got a bit wet from the starsan I suppose and glued themselves to the bottom.
> 
> I will probably try Vic's suggestion above hopping via the cap opening, although I would be wary of a volcano there.
> 
> I might also just come to terms that I will be turning it upside down at some point, so I might as well continue to hop through the container, then turn it upside down prior to opening the valve.


I have used this technique a number of times on a 55L FZ with pressure ferment and 0 psi. No volcano. If applying CO2 via dip tube make sure flow is very slow as not to blow the hops out.


----------



## WEF

I've noticed what appears to be micro stress fractures embedded in the neck of the FermZilla vessel just below the thread of the top cap, it appears to be all the way around the neck. Not sure if they're superficial, part of the manufacturing process or if i've caused it due to pressurising the vessel (i've never had it over 20-25 psi). Can others please check their vessels to confirm if they have the same thing occurring?

I can also see some machining/blow molded surface scratches etc in the same area but these are different as they are embedded in the plastic.


----------



## Schikitar

WEF said:


> Can others please check their vessels to confirm if they have the same thing occurring?


Yeah, mine has these too, not sure if it's a concern or not..


----------



## WEF

Schikitar said:


> Yeah, mine has these too, not sure if it's a concern or not..


Thanks Schikitar, i guess time will tell...


----------



## Norbert

Hi Elmar,
Im new to this site and just bought a fermzilla to give it a go to ferment under pressure.
For a start, I found your video very helpful and informative.
I searched around a lot, but I can not find information on bottling from fermzilla.
Just wondering, since the brew is already carbonated, do you still have to prime the bottles?
Maybe just half the normal amount of sugar in the bottles?
Thanks in advance.
Norbert.[emoji482]


----------



## CKK

WEF said:


> Thanks Schikitar, i guess time will tell...


Looks like it’s caused by the manufacturing process at the place where the reheated PET meets the thread so you have a region of stress.


----------



## WEF

CEO Keg King said:


> Looks like it’s caused by the manufacturing process at the place where the reheated PET meets the thread so you have a region of stress.


Do yours also have this defect for want of a better word? If so have you heard of it being the catalyst for eventual failure


----------



## CKK

No our products do not as we use a completely different process which does not reheat the PET and so achieves much greater clarity and tank integrity.


----------



## RopesNZ

Hey Guys, cheers for the help its been awesome. Tonight I tried to do a pressure test on the Fermzilla... I filled it up almost half way put the two carb caps on and then turned on the gas. I seem to have a massive gas leak coming out from the lid?? Like i cant get it tight enough. Anybody encounter this with their Fermzilla? Cheers


----------



## CKK

WEF said:


> Do yours also have this defect for want of a better word? If so have you heard of it being the catalyst for eventual failure


----------



## CKK

Pic of older Fermentasaurus neck


----------



## CKK

The Fermentasaurus does not have this problem. Hard to say what can happen but scratches and micro cracks are great places for bacteria to survive the cleaning process and cause havoc in the next brews.


----------



## Ferment8

RopesNZ said:


> Hey Guys, cheers for the help its been awesome. Tonight I tried to do a pressure test on the Fermzilla... I filled it up almost half way put the two carb caps on and then turned on the gas. I seem to have a massive gas leak coming out from the lid?? Like i cant get it tight enough. Anybody encounter this with their Fermzilla? Cheers


Take the posts off and check the washer/seal under them. One of mine wasn't sitting right and leaking. You don't need to over tighten them when putting them on


----------



## leighaus

Just got mine up and running... maiden voyage i decided to pressure ferment, bit i didn't have a spunding valve.. so it actually was hitting 35psi fermenting... Yeast seem okay so far . 

I flushed the hops with co2 in the bottom chamber and let em on in.. today, my spunding valve still hasn't arrived, and i want to use the zillas co2 to flush my corny, so i improvised.


----------



## WEF

RopesNZ said:


> Hey Guys, cheers for the help its been awesome. Tonight I tried to do a pressure test on the Fermzilla... I filled it up almost half way put the two carb caps on and then turned on the gas. I seem to have a massive gas leak coming out from the lid?? Like i cant get it tight enough. Anybody encounter this with their Fermzilla? Cheers



I've had it leak from the carb caps (the stainless ones) which i found out after over tightening them it seems, there is a sweet spot with them. Their new plastic carb caps don't have a rubber grommet/seal and rely on the plastic carb cap itself doing all the sealing work, so far so good! I haven't had it leak from the black plastic lid itself yet...


----------



## WEF

CEO Keg King said:


> Pic of older Fermentasaurus neck



Awesome, thanks for confirming this. I'm actually in the market for something like the snub nose as i'm yet to actually collect my yeast from the FermZ, good to see they come with the pressure kit and float and are made in Australia, 3 big +++ from me!


----------



## Norbert

Hi everyone, maybe I have to ask this question to everyone.
I searched around a lot, but I can not find information on bottling from fermzilla.
Just wondering, since the brew is already carbonated, do you still have to prime the bottles?
Maybe just half the normal amount of sugar in the bottles?
Thanks in advance.
Norbert


----------



## jayred

RopesNZ said:


> Hey Guys, cheers for the help its been awesome. Tonight I tried to do a pressure test on the Fermzilla... I filled it up almost half way put the two carb caps on and then turned on the gas. I seem to have a massive gas leak coming out from the lid?? Like i cant get it tight enough. Anybody encounter this with their Fermzilla? Cheers


Hey Mate
I had the very same problem. Very frustrating
I had to buy some lube and generously apply this to my lid and hand tighten only worked for me then. It was my first batch and i did try to loosen the lid after fermentation but it would not budge. Luckily i wasn't collecting yeast this time. I will use a lot more lube next batch hopefully it will come off easier


----------



## Schikitar

RopesNZ said:


> I seem to have a massive gas leak coming out from the lid?? Like i cant get it tight enough. Anybody encounter this with their Fermzilla?


Don't overtighten anything is my #1 tip with the FZ! Back everything off and then simply hand tighten, also lube.


----------



## Elmar

Norbert said:


> Hi Elmar,
> Im new to this site and just bought a fermzilla to give it a go to ferment under pressure.
> For a start, I found your video very helpful and informative.
> I searched around a lot, but I can not find information on bottling from fermzilla.
> Just wondering, since the brew is already carbonated, do you still have to prime the bottles?
> Maybe just half the normal amount of sugar in the bottles?
> Thanks in advance.
> Norbert.[emoji482]


Hi Norbert
I'm thinking if you are already happy with the level of carbonation in your beer, there is no need to use sugar. You may create bottle bombs if you do.
I'm assuming that you have cold crashed and tried a glass or two.
Here are some handy formulas from Fabian: http://www.fabier.de/biercalcs.html
Also see this chart: http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php
This is what Marshall Schott does and has worked well for me: http://brulosophy.com/methods/carbonation-methods/
The tricky bit will be to get your beer into the bottle without frothing. You will need some sort of counter pressure filler set up.
This is what Gash does: 
Of course this assumes you are using PET bottles.
See what you think.
Prost, Elmar


----------



## sp0rk

CEO Keg King said:


> The Fermentasaurus does not have this problem. Hard to say what can happen but scratches and micro cracks are great places for bacteria to survive the cleaning process and cause havoc in the next brews.


I saw Denny Conn disputing this on some homebrewing facebook group the other week, claiming that it doesn't happen
I thought about providing links to reasons why it does, but didn't bother because the frothing fanboi masses would have doxxed me into oblivion for not agreeing with the almighty allknowing Denny...


----------



## awfulknauful

I was thinking it does, (if we are talking bacteria) you can feel the groove and the disadvantage is being PET it cant be scalded. Just have to rely on steriliser, I think once an infection got in it would take some moving.


----------



## Norbert

Elmar said:


> Hi Norbert
> I'm thinking if you are already happy with the level of carbonation in your beer, there is no need to use sugar. You may create bottle bombs if you do.
> I'm assuming that you have cold crashed and tried a glass or two.
> Here are some handy formulas from Fabian: http://www.fabier.de/biercalcs.html
> Also see this chart: http://www.kegerators.com/carbonation-table.php
> This is what Marshall Schott does and has worked well for me: http://brulosophy.com/methods/carbonation-methods/
> The tricky bit will be to get your beer into the bottle without frothing. You will need some sort of counter pressure filler set up.
> This is what Gash does:
> Of course this assumes you are using PET bottles.
> See what you think.
> Prost, Elmar


Thanks for you reply Elmar! 
No, I don't use pet bottles.
The brew is still in the fermenter, started it Saturday morning. So still a few days to go.
My plan was to syphon it out with a stainless steel bottle filler ( spring seal on the bottom and a tube connection on top).
I guess the beer will be slightly carbonated and will need a little more help in the bottle ( old long necks 750ml), maybe prime it as a stubby?? Just thought there must be someone who's done this before.
Maybe I will have to release the pressure before bottling?? Hope that won't create a big mess.
Will have a look at your links when I get home.
Thanks for your help
Cheers
Norbert


----------



## RopesNZ

Cheers everyone on the replies to the gas leak issue. I applied quite a bit of lube to the seal and now it seems all good. I didn't realise that stuff can make such a difference. I have to do the same with the collection chamber now cos I had a leak coming out of there but ran out of time to apply lube and check. Will do it tonight.

Cheers


----------



## Elmar

Norbert said:


> Thanks for you reply Elmar!
> No, I don't use pet bottles.
> The brew is still in the fermenter, started it Saturday morning. So still a few days to go.
> My plan was to syphon it out with a stainless steel bottle filler ( spring seal on the bottom and a tube connection on top).
> I guess the beer will be slightly carbonated and will need a little more help in the bottle ( old long necks 750ml), maybe prime it as a stubby?? Just thought there must be someone who's done this before.
> Maybe I will have to release the pressure before bottling?? Hope that won't create a big mess.
> Will have a look at your links when I get home.
> Thanks for your help
> Cheers
> Norbert


Hi Norbert
I have one of those and they don't work well with carbonated beer.
Probably really need one of these to create a back pressure: https://www.kegland.com.au/counter-pressure-bottle-filler-kit.html
That way you also keep oxygen out.
Depending on the pressure in the Fermzilla, your beer may well be carbed enough. Depending on style of course.
You can always do what I did and install a tap[emoji6][emoji23]


----------



## RopesNZ

Gotta say getting pretty disheartened with the Fermzilla. I can not get it to pressurise now.. it leaks out if the lid.. I've tried heaps of lube and varying levels of tightness but it just leaks..

Starting to get pissed off


----------



## Ferment8

RopesNZ said:


> Gotta say getting pretty disheartened with the Fermzilla. I can not get it to pressurise now.. it leaks out if the lid.. I've tried heaps of lube and varying levels of tightness but it just leaks..
> 
> Starting to get pissed off


Have you taken off the carb caps on the posts? Check the rubber washer under it and they aren't over tightened. If they leak it appears to come from the lid as well


----------



## RopesNZ

Ferment8 said:


> Have you taken off the carb caps on the posts? Check the rubber washer under it and they aren't over tightened. If they leak it appears to come from the lid as well



Thanks mate. I will give this a go


----------



## RopesNZ

It's definitely not the carb caps. It's the lid. It just won't go tight enough. You can hear the escaping gas get smaller and smaller as you tighten it, but even using the tool which I know you are not meant to use to tighten it does not completely stop the gas leaking. Super frustrating


----------



## Ferment8

the o ring doesnt have a nick or anything in it? i found i dont have to do it up tight at all. i overtightened at the start thinking it was leaking but it was my post on the cap. ijust spin it and pretty much leave it where it stops. does the lid piece sit inside the fermzilla neck snuggly?

Are you using the steel or plastic posts?


----------



## RopesNZ

I'll have to inspect the o ring closely. That's interesting yours does up that easily. The lid piece does almost seem to easily to place in there?..I'll have another look. I've emailed my seller about getting a replacement. But will keep trying with it.

Cheers for your help


----------



## Ferment8

No problem. Good luck


----------



## Schikitar

RopesNZ said:


> It's the lid. It just won't go tight enough.


That indicates that you've taken it too far and probably stuffed the o-ring. You should have got a spare in the kit, put that on, add some lube and DO NOT over-tighten.. seriously @KegLand-com-au, you need to drive this message home more, so many people here and on the FB page that have had this issue, I'm starting to feel like Level 1 tech support - time for a YouTube video me thinks (you guys, not me)!


----------



## Grok

O-ring seals are good by design, but they have to have smooth surfaces to seal against and a little compaction as they come together, they don't rely on screw pressure. Take the o-ring off and check carefully with magnifier glasses or something similar and use your finger as well to see/feel imperfections in the groove channel where the o-ring sits and the inner surface of the vessel. The groove surfaces have to be smooth, as well as the surface of the vessel that the outer o-ring seals against. I have a brand new 55L Fermzilla, as yet unused and untested for pressure. After reading these posts, I checked mine, and found a very slight manufacturing moulding join bump (x2) on the inner ring of the o-ring seat of the lid (under the o-ring). This sort of attention to detail is important! I carefully and very lightly filed the moulding join bumps flat so that the o-ring can sit flat against the surface and do it's job properly. As yet still untested, but from previous experience dealing with o-ring seals, this usually fixes the problem. I'll borrow a line from the Lion King movie....LOOK HARDER!!!!


----------



## KegLand-com-au

CEO Keg King said:


> The Fermentasaurus does not have this problem. Hard to say what can happen but scratches and micro cracks are great places for bacteria to survive the cleaning process and cause havoc in the next brews.



Part of me wants to ignore this politics on this forum but at the same time this is a direct attack at us and I also feel that we need to defend ourselves.

COE Keg King - Will Fiala are you serious? Since you started manufacturing the Fermentasaurus you have had hundreds of issues. We regularly get customers complain about leaking valves, the clarity of the container and other faulty components. You were having so many leaking issues with the valve in particular you had to make sell a snub nose with no valve as it was the only way you were able to make some tight containers and even then you have still had issues with leaks at the top of the Fermentasaurus. I see you have made some attempts to re-design the valve with the Fermentasaurus 3 but the new design is absolutely ridiculous and is flawed. Will Fiala you have destroyed what used to be a great business.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Grok said:


> O-ring seals are good by design, but they have to have smooth surfaces to seal against and a little compaction as they come together, they don't rely on screw pressure. Take the o-ring off and check carefully with magnifier glasses or something similar and use your finger as well to see/feel imperfections in the groove channel where the o-ring sits and the inner surface of the vessel. The groove surfaces have to be smooth, as well as the surface of the vessel that the outer o-ring seals against. I have a brand new 55L Fermzilla, as yet unused and untested for pressure. After reading these posts, I checked mine, and found a very slight manufacturing moulding join bump (x2) on the inner ring of the o-ring seat of the lid (under the o-ring). This sort of attention to detail is important! I carefully and very lightly filed the moulding join bumps flat so that the o-ring can sit flat against the surface and do it's job properly. As yet still untested, but from previous experience dealing with o-ring seals, this usually fixes the problem. I'll borrow a line from the Lion King movie....LOOK HARDER!!!!



Yes we would generally check the o-ring to make sure that it's in good condition. When the o-ring for the lid is not lubricated it can easily roll out of place. If this happens then you can chop the o-ring or damage the o-ring. This is one of the reasons we include a free o-ring kit in FermZilla units. Even if a small piece of rubber gets chopped out of the o-ring it will prevent you getting a good seal.

We have started to pre-lubricate these o-rings that come assembled on the lid just incase you guys forget but ultimately we would recommend you get some food grade lube. I think we just sound out but we have another shipment arriving in about 3 days.

It's not normally the seam line on the moulding that is the issue. I mean I can't say it's impossible that a small bit of flashing could potentially be the issue but we have not seen this ourselves. If you have the right amount of o-ring compression the injection moulding seam line is normally tolerable. From our experience some small amount of lube and a good new o-ring almost always fixes it.


----------



## awfulknauful

KegLand-com-au said:


> Part of me wants to ignore this politics on this forum but at the same time this is a direct attack at us and I also feel that we need to defend ourselves.
> 
> COE Keg King - Will Fiala are you serious? Since you started manufacturing the Fermentasaurus you have had hundreds of issues. We regularly get customers complain about leaking valves, the clarity of the container and other faulty components. You were having so many leaking issues with the valve in particular you had to make sell a snub nose with no valve as it was the only way you were able to make some tight containers and even then you have still had issues with leaks at the top of the Fermentasaurus. I see you have made some attempts to re-design the valve with the Fermentasaurus 3 but the new design is absolutely ridiculous and is flawed. Will Fiala you have destroyed what used to be a great business.


I hardly think thats fair, he put forward a point of view, not a political attack. For the record I have one of each, since getting the replacement valve for the fermentasaurus I have never had a leak, the Fermzilla on the other hand arrived with a permenet dent, and also the same groove around the top which some are saying is a stress fracture, and remember the new valve is an improvement on the design you guys did. I for one am waiting to see the new design of the fermentasaurus 3, I would doubt very much it has been shown to you to pass your critical eye over. As for the snub nose I don't have one but havent you guys copied something similar?
It all sounds like sour grapes to me.


----------



## RopesNZ

I think I must have stuffed my first o ring.. I used one of the replacement ones and now it's holding pressure far better than the first one. Still have a slow leak coming from somewhere... Don't have anything big enough to submerge it in though. Cheers everyone for the help. Might not need a replacement after all.


----------



## Grok

Dear Kegland, I was not having a go at you or your product, just imparting some practical advice from experience I've had dealing with o-ring seals and potential issues of none sealing, every setup has its own quirks(if any). I actually really like your innovative attitude and focus on the whole home brew scene, and the fact you are actually reactive to suggestions in a positive way and try make it happen. Well done I say, and applaud any go-get-em and have-a-go behaviour! We need more of it in this great country I reckon, sometimes there are to many armchair "knockers".


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Grok said:


> Dear Kegland, I was not having a go at you or your product, just imparting some practical advice from experience I've had dealing with o-ring seals and potential issues of none sealing, every setup has its own quirks(if any). I actually really like your innovative attitude and focus on the whole home brew scene, and the fact you are actually reactive to suggestions in a positive way and try make it happen. Well done I say, and applaud any go-get-em and have-a-go behaviour! We need more of it in this great country I reckon, sometimes there are to many armchair "knockers".



Hello Grok. No offence taken at all. It's really only CEO Keg King we have an issue with. It's already been the case that Will Fiala used fake profiles to make other posts. On one instance he accidentally used one of his fake profiles and accidentally replied as Keg King and then quickly tried to delete this post. This type of deceptive behaviour doesn't impress me. With that said we appreciate genuine feedback positive or negative. Customer feedback is the greatest driver for us to make better gear. Good feedback has caused us to make several new products in the past 2 years and many product improvements.

The best feedback is feedback that is well documented so we can appropriately act on it. Ideally the most helpful thing for us is when customers take photos and videos of things they would like to see changed, or issues they have or ideas of products they would like us to make. I can assure you that all well documented feedback is taken seriously and it's acted on.

Definitely all forums will have some armchair "knockers" but hopefully you guys are able to see through these comments fairly easily.

With regards to the o-rings it might be possible for us to make the o-ring a tighter fit in the seat. This would also reduce the chance of it rolling out of place and getting chopped. With that said I don't think this is a large issue at the moment. If we were seeing many o-rings get damaged we would see high level of seal kits being sold or requested for warranty. We have now sold many containers of the FermZilla fermenters to date. With these o-ring seal kits here:

https://www.kegland.com.au/fermzilla-seal-kit-lid-collection-container-and-cone-o-ring.html

We have sold 9 sets so far. So based on these numbers I don't think we have a big problem. I think we have an area that we can improve on but by no means a big issue.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

KegLand-com-au said:


> Definitely all forums will have some armchair "knockers" but hopefully you guys are able to see through these comments fairly easily.



Pot kettle black.



KegLand-com-au said:


> I don't quite understand the point of this vessel. It's basically got a conical bottom but no valve so you cant dump anything out of the cone. That's the main benefit of a cone in the first place.
> 
> Then the handles on the stand are upside down so it's not possible to lift easily or ergonomically.
> 
> As this container has no benefit of being a conical vessel why not just ferment in a 19L ball lock keg that's even more compact. You can ferment in a second hand keg or a brand new keg if you want to spend a bit more money.
> 
> Why does this product exist? Who designed this product and who thought this was a good idea?



And now you have copied it!


----------



## Ferment8

RopesNZ said:


> I think I must have stuffed my first o ring.. I used one of the replacement ones and now it's holding pressure far better than the first one. Still have a slow leak coming from somewhere... Don't have anything big enough to submerge it in though. Cheers everyone for the help. Might not need a replacement after all.


Put a bit of water and pressure in it and tip it upside down


----------



## RopesNZ

Ferment8 said:


> Put a bit of water and pressure in it and tip it upside down


Looks like it was leaking out of my spunding valve from the thread of the disconnect, need some thread tape around it. So I have replaced the o ring on the lid and put it on not too tight and it's working now. I also replaced the o ring on the collection vessel too thinking I butchered that one too.. tried not putting it on too tight but it started leaking water quite bad so tightened it up till it stopped.

I have it now sitting in garage pressured to 15 psi, will check it tomorrow to see if it has stayed that way and hopefully no water on the floor. Hopefully all resolved and I can get brewing.


----------



## malt and barley blues

Ferment8 said:


> Put a bit of water and pressure in it and tip it upside down


I think a lot of water would be better, thats the normal way to pressure test something.Liquid resists compression, so some warm soapy water should show the leak.


----------



## nala

RopesNZ said:


> I'll have to inspect the o ring closely. That's interesting yours does up that easily. The lid piece does almost seem to easily to place in there?..I'll have another look. I've emailed my seller about getting a replacement. But will keep trying with it.
> 
> Cheers for your help


Sorry to hear that you are having the same problems as me.
I posted a few days ago asking for suggestions as how to overcome this.
I wasted a full gas bottle of gas ($31.50) to try to find where the leak was.
Like you...from the lid !
Theoretically, the the lid should not really need to be too tight, it's function is to hold the inner lid which is sealed with "O" ring around it's diameter, most hydraulic seals are designes in the same way, without problems.
The issue at stake here is how to know when the outer lid is in contact with the inner sealing lid !
Without trying to reinvent the wheel and also trying simple solutions, I have today bought an "O" ring from a shop dealing in hydraulic parts and sevices. The "O" ring is approximately 3.5 mm in thickness and large in enough in diameter to go between the outer lid and on top of the inner lid. My intention is to have the pressure of the outer lid onto the inner sealing lid without the need to use the expanding tool to tighten and untighten it.
I have it on test as I write. 
Should this meet the criteria which I am looking for I will post again with pictures.


----------



## sp0rk

KegLand-com-au said:


> Part of me wants to ignore this politics on this forum but at the same time this is a direct attack at us and I also feel that we need to defend ourselves.
> 
> COE Keg King - Will Fiala are you serious? Since you started manufacturing the Fermentasaurus you have had hundreds of issues. We regularly get customers complain about leaking valves, the clarity of the container and other faulty components. You were having so many leaking issues with the valve in particular you had to make sell a snub nose with no valve as it was the only way you were able to make some tight containers and even then you have still had issues with leaks at the top of the Fermentasaurus. I see you have made some attempts to re-design the valve with the Fermentasaurus 3 but the new design is absolutely ridiculous and is flawed. Will Fiala you have destroyed what used to be a great business.


Eh, ignore me...


----------



## RopesNZ

After all that I still have a massive leak. Came home from work had no pressure left in the vessel. Put more gas into it and it's escaping from under the lid again..Does anybody's look like this I noticed it's a bit warped on the lid?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

RopesNZ said:


> After all that I still have a massive leak. Came home from work had no pressure left in the vessel. Put more gas into it and it's escaping from under the lid again..Does anybody's look like this I noticed it's a bit warped on the lid?


Ask for a replacement lid definitely a defect there.


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

When pressure testing vessels i don't use c02 i just hook up a barbed disconnect to my bike pump. I also do this to flush my kegs.


----------



## Norbert

Thanks for that Elmar,
Guess that it won't matter anymore, I took a sample last night gravity is at 1005 ant the beer is completely flat.
I'm a bit disappointed with that. 
I noticed that the pressure was going down on day 3 when the fermentation slowed
(guess I have the famous leaking lid everyone is talking about), now day 8 and flat beer. In the fridge since last night and bottling tomorrow.
After that I will try to find out where my leaking comes from.

Hopefully Kegland will find a solution to this problem, so everyone can be happy.
Overall, I believe the FermZilla is a great product, just needs a bit of fine-tuning.
Thanks
Norbert


Elmar said:


> Hi Norbert
> I have one of those and they don't work well with carbonated beer.
> Probably really need one of these to create a back pressure: https://www.kegland.com.au/counter-pressure-bottle-filler-kit.html
> That way you also keep oxygen out.
> Depending on the pressure in the Fermzilla, your beer may well be carbed enough. Depending on style of course.
> You can always do what I did and install a tap[emoji6][emoji23]
> 
> View attachment 116699
> View attachment 116700


----------



## awfulknauful

I hope this isn't going to be a common occurrence.


----------



## Norbert

awfulknauful said:


> I hope this isn't going to be a common occurrence.
> View attachment 116725


Woow, How did that happen?? Sorry.


----------



## awfulknauful

Not mine, posted on Facebook.


----------



## nala

nala said:


> Sorry to hear that you are having the same problems as me.
> I posted a few days ago asking for suggestions as how to overcome this.
> I wasted a full gas bottle of gas ($31.50) to try to find where the leak was.
> Like you...from the lid !
> Theoretically, the the lid should not really need to be too tight, it's function is to hold the inner lid which is sealed with "O" ring around it's diameter, most hydraulic seals are designes in the same way, without problems.
> The issue at stake here is how to know when the outer lid is in contact with the inner sealing lid !
> Without trying to reinvent the wheel and also trying simple solutions, I have today bought an "O" ring from a shop dealing in hydraulic parts and sevices. The "O" ring is approximately 3.5 mm in thickness and large in enough in diameter to go between the outer lid and on top of the inner lid. My intention is to have the pressure of the outer lid onto the inner sealing lid without the need to use the expanding tool to tighten and untighten it.
> I have it on test as I write.
> Should this meet the criteria which I am looking for I will post again with pictures.


I have tested as described above for 3 days now.
Over this period I still had a small loss in pressure even with the "O" ring in situ.
I am pursuing a further idea, I have now used the spare "O" ring which is the one for sealing the inner cap by placing it around the rim of the inner cap thus creating a further seal.
Early days yet but looks promising.
It is difficult to show meaningful pictures but I am posting as promised.


----------



## nala

Picture of "O" ring beside inner cap


----------



## wide eyed and legless

nala said:


> I have tested as described above for 3 days now.
> Over this period I still had a small loss in pressure even with the "O" ring in situ.
> I am pursuing a further idea, I have now used the spare "O" ring which is the one for sealing the inner cap by placing it around the rim of the inner cap thus creating a further seal.
> Early days yet but looks promising.
> It is difficult to show meaningful pictures but I am posting as promised.View attachment 116726


I hope this works out for you. Looking at that lid, I think it would have been better to have the pressure relief valve to the side and a thermowell for the centre. Just casting my critical eye over the lid.


----------



## nala

wide eyed and legless said:


> I hope this works out for you. Looking at that lid, I think it would have been better to have the pressure relief valve to the side and a thermowell for the centre. Just casting my critical eye over the lid.



Thank you for your reply.
The lid comes as standard with the pressure relief valve as pictured I have not installed it there.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

nala said:


> Thank you for your reply.
> The lid comes as standard with the pressure relief valve as pictured I have not installed it there.


Yes I know that, but just suggesting for KL's benefit that it would have been better positioned to the side and for a thermowell to be positioned in the centre where the exothermal heat is higher.


----------



## nala

I am ending my post on this matter now.
I have found a solution to the problem albeit introducing components additional to the design.
Anything that I have posted isn't a poor reflection on Kegland, on the contrary, I am pleased with the Fermzilla and feel sure that Kegland will improve what is already an excellent product very well priced, if they take onboard experiences gained by end users. It has been my experience over many years that in-house testing can only achieve so much. Everyday use of most products will usually expose ways to improve and simplify them.
Hopefully Kegland will view my experience and consider what I have done without prejudice.


----------



## Norbert

I second that! Nothing better than constructive criticism from the end-user.

You can only do so much testing! 

I'm sure they will keep an eye out for good ideas, in the end that will help to sell more product an everyone is happy.

Good on you. [emoji482]
Norbert


nala said:


> I am ending my post on this matter now.
> I have found a solution to the problem albeit introducing components additional to the design.
> Anything that I have posted isn't a poor reflection on Kegland, on the contrary, I am pleased with the Fermzilla and feel sure that Kegland will improve what is already an excellent product very well priced, if they take onboard experiences gained by end users. It has been my experience over many years that in-house testing can only achieve so much. Everyday use of most products will usually expose ways to improve and simplify them.
> Hopefully Kegland will view my experience and consider what I have done without prejudice.


----------



## Schikitar

awfulknauful said:


>



Judging by the gap between the collection jar and the assembly looks like he had this on way too tight, should be a good 1/2cm between them..


----------



## sp0rk

Schikitar said:


> Judging by the gap between the collection jar and the assembly looks like he had this on way too tight, should be a good 1/2cm between them..


It looks like where the crack on the right side is, it's been shifted to one side fairly far
unless there's a lot of structural stress in the unit, I'd think that's been belted with something


----------



## Norbert

Hi there,
I just bottled my first brew and therefore had a chance to have a close look at the problem with the leaking lid.
I attached a pdf, which shows the problem and how to fix it (at least that's what I think).
I did this on mine and submerged it in the pool, no more leak or so it seams.
Since I don't have gas to check it, that will have to do for now.
I put down a new brew on, will let you know if it now holds the pressure after the fermentation finished.

There seems to be another problem I came across when I was cleaning the pressure kit.
The attachment ring on the steel float came off, not very well done I think.
Will try to get them to send me a replacement. See attached pic. Does anyone else have this problem?
I hope this helps.
Cheers
Norbert


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Norbert said:


> Hi there,
> I just bottled my first brew and therefore had a chance to have a close look at the problem with the leaking lid.
> I attached a pdf, which shows the problem and how to fix it (at least that's what I think).
> I did this on mine and submerged it in the pool, no more leak or so it seams.
> Since I don't have gas to check it, that will have to do for now.
> I put down a new brew on, will let you know if it now holds the pressure after the fermentation finished.
> 
> There seems to be another problem I came across when I was cleaning the pressure kit.
> The attachment ring on the steel float came off, not very well done I think.
> Will try to get them to send me a replacement. See attached pic. Does anyone else have this problem?
> I hope this helps.
> Cheers
> Norbert


I think Norbert the whole idea of when you buy something is that it should work out of the box, not filing and using fine sand paper to fix a problem. As you have not tried a pressure ferment since your attempt to rectify the problem, and if it doesn't still come up to expectations you have now given the vendor a loop hole to refuse a refund if you still encounter problems.


----------



## Norbert

Just trying to help an stay positive.
Cheers [emoji482]


wide eyed and legless said:


> I think Norbert the whole idea of when you buy something is that it should work out of the box, not filing and using fine sand paper to fix a problem. As you have not tried a pressure ferment since your attempt to rectify the problem, and if it doesn't still come up to expectations you have now given the vendor a loop hole to refuse a refund if you still encounter problems.


----------



## Norbert

I checked my carbonation caps for seal, I noticed little pieces of rubber sitting on the seal.

As it turns out, the seal sits on the very outside edge of the opening, if you tighten the caps beyond hand tight the seal slips inside the opening and looses seal.

See photos below. 

Maybe the plastic varieties of the carbonation caps are the better choice, I believe they don't require a seal.


----------



## WEF

Norbert said:


> I checked my carbonation caps for seal, I noticed little pieces of rubber sitting on the seal.
> 
> As it turns out, the seal sits on the very outside edge of the opening, if you tighten the caps beyond hand tight the seal slips inside the opening and looses seal.
> 
> See photos below.
> 
> Maybe the plastic varieties of the carbonation caps are the better choice, I believe they don't require a seal.



Yep that's what happens if you tighten them too much and you're spot on with the plastic carb caps, they seal well and i haven't had any issues yet


----------



## Elmar

Norbert said:


> I checked my carbonation caps for seal, I noticed little pieces of rubber sitting on the seal.
> 
> As it turns out, the seal sits on the very outside edge of the opening, if you tighten the caps beyond hand tight the seal slips inside the opening and looses seal.
> 
> See photos below.
> 
> Maybe the plastic varieties of the carbonation caps are the better choice, I believe they don't require a seal.


I couldn't get one of my carb caps to seal.
Turns out it's the carb cap itself. The one in stainless that is supposed to fit gas and liquid posts. Go figure
Sorry you are having so many problems with your Fermzilla Norbert.
Quality control in China evidently is quite up to the task at hand


----------



## wide eyed and legless

awfulknauful said:


> I hope this isn't going to be a common occurrence.
> View attachment 116725


If that was being unscrewed using the strap wrench it looks like the plastic jaw part has caved it in, and he was going anti clockwise looking at the picture on the r/hand side.
Edit that, he could have been using it on the other side and going clockwise, just have to take his word for it.


----------



## Schikitar

Norbert said:


> if you tighten the caps beyond hand tight the seal slips inside the opening and looses seal.


I think I've mentioned this about a 1000 times, glad the message is getting through!


----------



## Norbert

nala said:


> I have tested as described above for 3 days now.
> Over this period I still had a small loss in pressure even with the "O" ring in situ.
> I am pursuing a further idea, I have now used the spare "O" ring which is the one for sealing the inner cap by placing it around the rim of the inner cap thus creating a further seal.
> Early days yet but looks promising.
> It is difficult to show meaningful pictures but I am posting as promised.View attachment 116726


I just noticed in your photo, you moved your connections in the lid. Is that better? Where did you get the ss-steal connections? IIt looks like a good idea after having all the trouble I'm having.
Cheers 
Norbert


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Norbert said:


> I checked my carbonation caps for seal, I noticed little pieces of rubber sitting on the seal.
> 
> As it turns out, the seal sits on the very outside edge of the opening, if you tighten the caps beyond hand tight the seal slips inside the opening and looses seal.
> 
> See photos below.
> 
> Maybe the plastic varieties of the carbonation caps are the better choice, I believe they don't require a seal.



Yes that is correct. The flat washer inside the carbonation caps can easily be pushed out of the seat if they are over tightened. Especially as these have always been made with a fairly soft seal. If you ever wanted to get some spare seals this cam-lock seal is the correct size for the job:
https://www.kegland.com.au/5-pack-camlock-replacement-silicone-seal.html
Basically it comes down to simply making sure you only tighten these up finger tight.

As you have suggested the plastic carbonation caps that you can see here:
https://www.kegland.com.au/plastic-carbonation-line-cleaning-cap-fermzilla-cap.html

These are excellent and are made from a high grade of engineering plastic. They have no seal like the stainless carbonation caps so even when done up very tight they have no seal to roll out of place or drop out and loose. Even though they are significantly cheaper I actually prefer to use these. The plastic in these is durable, chemical resistant, UV resistant. When purchased in a pack of 10 we give a significant discount on these so they are only about $2 each so cheap enough that if you use them on a coke bottle and take it to a party then it's not a big deal if you loose it.

As much as I love stainless steel I think plastic has it's place as long as the grade is the right grade for the job and it's well designed.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Schikitar said:


> I think I've mentioned this about a 1000 times, glad the message is getting through!



Yes that's for re-emphasising this. We appreciate it. Really none of the fittings on the FermZilla need to be over tightened.


----------



## pauly

KegLand-com-au said:


> As much as I love stainless steel I think plastic has it's place as long as the grade is the right grade for the job and it's well designed.



@KegLand-com-au I have disassembled two of the plastic caps for cleaning and both times the small seal on the inside has broke. Are they not supposed to be disassembled, and is it possible to get replacement seals or should I just bin them?


----------



## KegLand-com-au

pauly said:


> @KegLand-com-au I have disassembled two of the plastic caps for cleaning and both times the small seal on the inside has broke. Are they not supposed to be disassembled, and is it possible to get replacement seals or should I just bin them?



We do not have the spare o-rings at the moment and not 100% sure if we are going to stock the spare o-rings in future for a part that we sell this cheap. Eventually once the RRP of the product gets under$4 the cost of posting out o-rings becomes more than what the part is worth.

With that said it's a standard metric oring size that is 1.5mm cross section thickness x 8mm ID. So this is quite a standard o-ring that you can purchase at many different outlets. In fact I saw a pack of 20 on ebay for $4.75.

Without the o-ring in place you can still use the fitting for "gas in" or use it as a standard carbonation cap (without dip tube). But it wouldn't work with the dip tube. So I would say the best option is just to downgrade the fitting to a regular carbonation cap for PET bottles and not even bother changing the o-ring.

Lastly you will find with this fitting that the o-ring compression is quite high and as a result even with a damaged o-ring this fitting may seal anyway. If your o-ring is completely split open it might be stuffed but if the o-ring is only slightly damaged it would probably still work fine.

When inserting this fitting it's best if the o-ring is lubricated (like pretty much all the o-rings that we sell) before assembly. This normally is the best way to ensure your o-rings stay in the best possible condition. Even having them wet is significantly better than inserting with the dry o-ring.


----------



## Saersy

I don't know if this has been discussed before but do people fully disassemble their fermzilla after every brew to clean? Was watching gash and he said he doesn't but mine always get trub and yeast stuck under the butterfly valve cone rubber seal.


----------



## WEF

Saersy said:


> I don't know if this has been discussed before but do people fully disassemble their fermzilla after every brew to clean? Was watching gash and he said he doesn't but mine always get trub and yeast stuck under the butterfly valve cone rubber seal.



My first few batches i did then after hearing Kee say not to worry about it and to blast it out with water (i use a hose) which has worked great for me to date. I do try and blast the cleaner > clean water > sanitizer into the seal as much as possible afterwards also.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Yeah the hose with a high pressure jet nozzle seems to work quite well so I think save yourself the time and just do that. I have not taken apart mine for several batches and it seems to always clean out really well just with the hose.


----------



## Schikitar

Ouch.. not overly negative but this is not the sort of messaging a product like this needs out there..



..there's a few supporters in the comments but still, the FZ has a sealing problem that should not require TLC and special treatment.

EDIT: Just adding that I like my FZ but I wouldn't buy a second one I don't think.


----------



## soreba

Schikitar said:


> Ouch.. not overly negative but this is not the sort of messaging a product like this needs out there..



Its a bit dodge that he hasn't even let the store potentially resolve the issue. He should have waited until he either has a replacement or refund to throw out a verdict.


----------



## Vic

I have 2 55L FZ and 1 27L FZ. No problems disassembling and reassembling. No problems with leaks. A small amount of silicone lube on the rubber parts makes things much easier. I still have a fermentasauris but prefer the FZ.


----------



## awfulknauful

Schikitar said:


> EDIT: Just adding that I like my FZ but I wouldn't buy a second one I don't think.



Agree, I wouldn't buy again, KL would have been better waiting to get everything right, although maybe this is as good as it gets out of China. I will be ordering the conversion kit for making the Fermentasaurus into the Fermenter King and ordering a second Fermenter King.


----------



## Schikitar

Vic said:


> I have 2 55L FZ and 1 27L FZ. No problems disassembling and reassembling. No problems with leaks. A small amount of silicone lube on the rubber parts makes things much easier.


..and I don't think that is an uncommon story BUT there's no denying that there are issues, common issues, KL could probably alleviate most of them with better instructional videos on YouTube as a start IMHO..


----------



## Kristian Taylor

Vic said:


> I have 2 55L FZ and 1 27L FZ. No problems disassembling and reassembling. No problems with leaks. A small amount of silicone lube on the rubber parts makes things much easier. I still have a fermentasauris but prefer the FZ.



I have a 55L and love it. No issue sealing and works like a charm. Would totally buy it again.


----------



## Norbert

Schikitar said:


> Ouch.. not overly negative but this is not the sort of messaging a product like this needs out there..
> 
> 
> 
> ..there's a few supporters in the comments but still, the FZ has a sealing problem that should not require TLC and special treatment.
> 
> EDIT: Just adding that I like my FZ but I wouldn't buy a second one I don't think.



Hi Schikitar,
When I disassembled mine, I found it a bit difficult too. Have a look at this link.  It just takes a little to get used to it, that's all, nothing wrong with the Fermzilla. Maybe Kegland should do a video how to do it properly.
I disassembled mine a few times now with no problems. What does help, is a second one of the special tools. You find them at hardware stores.
Hope this helps.
I got to say I am very happy with mine after fixing the problems with the seal.
Norbert


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Norbert said:


> Hi Schikitar,
> When I disassembled mine, I found it a bit difficult too. Have a look at this link.  It just takes a little to get used to it, that's all, nothing wrong with the Fermzilla. Maybe Kegland should do a video how to do it properly.
> I disassembled mine a few times now with no problems. What does help, is a second one of the special tools. You find them at hardware stores.
> Hope this helps.
> I got to say I am very happy with mine after fixing the problems with the seal.
> Norbert




We did make the mistake of over-tightening some of the first batch that was made and this caused some customers to find the valve difficult to get off. With that said as of about 2 months ago we started dispatching all the FermZilla uni tanks without valve attached. So this has eliminated this problem. The other thing is that this has reduced the carton size by a few CM so the shipping cost is also slightly reduced.

So all Australian stock is already packed and shipped like this but some of the international distributors might still have some of the first batch of stock that is trickling through the system. Also by forcing customers to put it together it educates customers that it's a left hand/reverse thread. When we had it pre-assembled customers some customers would not realise and then they would tighten the nut up even more when trying to undo it.

We do dedicate quite a lot of time to product development and in the instance that we find an issue we generally have a solution in the pipeline fairly quickly. 

If you do get stuck on how to take it apart we made this video that you might also find useful:


----------



## Schikitar

It's not me that has the issue (my FZ has been pretty great overall) - I was merely pointing out that when you have a FB group full of people who can't get seals to work and international Youtubers (that's a thing now I suppose) talking your products down because they can't manage something like disassembly then there's problem with the messaging from a PR perspective. I wasn't aware of this particular YT vid of yours, thanks, I even searched your channel yesterday and it didn't come up (weird!), I usually point people to these when they're having problems so please continue to put effort into them.


----------



## dkril

Schikitar said:


> It's not me that has the issue (my FZ has been pretty great overall) - I was merely pointing out that when you have a FB group full of people who can't get seals to work and international Youtubers (that's a thing now I suppose) talking your products down because they can't manage something like disassembly then there's problem with the messaging from a PR perspective. I wasn't aware of this particular YT vid of yours, thanks, I even searched your channel yesterday and it didn't come up (weird!), I usually point people to these when they're having problems so please continue to put effort into them.


It's an unlisted video (click through to Youtube, it's noted under the title in small print), so the only way to find it is to be given the URL.


----------



## nala

Schikitar said:


> It's not me that has the issue (my FZ has been pretty great overall) - I was merely pointing out that when you have a FB group full of people who can't get seals to work and international Youtubers (that's a thing now I suppose) talking your products down because they can't manage something like disassembly then there's problem with the messaging from a PR perspective. I wasn't aware of this particular YT vid of yours, thanks, I even searched your channel yesterday and it didn't come up (weird!), I usually point people to these when they're having problems so please continue to put effort into them.



I saw this video on YouTube this week.
The guy who posted lives in Sweden...he is bit of Swedish larrakin ! I think this was completely out of order.
He could have emailed Kegland and asked a question about his concerns.
I recently contacted Kegland and found them very helpful, very quick to respond and very courteous.
I wish them great success with the Fermzilla and feel sure that customer feedback, cons and pros, will sort out any minor problems in the short term.
There is nothing on the market to beat the Fermzilla for,design, innovation and price.


----------



## Spence

Hi all, this is my first post but I have been lurking for a few weeks researching HB equipment as I am planning to get into all grain brewing. I have just come here to add my 2c. I have found that some parts of this thread (and the equipment forums in general) have been a bit fear-mongering/unhelpful. Maybe some members have axes to grind against certain companies/products? Reading the comments here made me hesitant to include the FZ in my wish list for my first brewing setup. 

To satisfy my curiosity I went on the KL Home Brew FB Group and created a poll asking about the pefand after 24 hours here are the results (if the results move away from the below I may update this)
1st: "All good, no issues with sealing" *68 votes* 
2nd: "Had issues, but all resolved now and working well" *28 votes*
3rd: "I wish my wife would let me buy one" *13 votes*
4th: "Just got one haven't tried it yet" *9 votes*
5th: "Unfortunately it does have problems" *8 votes*
There were 7 more answers but they didn't directly address FZ performance

Out of a total of 133 votes, 104 votes directly addressed the performance of the FZ (Statistically, a sample size larger than 30 allows you to predict the typical experience of a whole population with a confidence level of over 95%) So, _n=104_ and _n>30_ (apologies for bringing math into this).
65.38% of users experienced no issues
26.92% of users had issues now resolved
7.69% of users had problems (I am assuming these are not resolved as a worst case scenario)

For anyone reading trying to make a decision you have a 92.31%_(+/- 5%) _chance of brewing under pressure and a 7.69%_(+/- 5%)_ chance of the FZ not being for you.


----------



## Schikitar

dkril said:


> It's an unlisted video (click through to Youtube, it's noted under the title in small print), so the only way to find it is to be given the URL.


That explains it, should be pinned to the top of the channel! 



nala said:


> The guy who posted lives in Sweden...he is bit of Swedish larrakin ! I think this was completely out of order.


I mostly agree with this, doesn't change the fact that has has an audience and has an influence (albeit nothing too huge)..


----------



## KegLand-com-au

We have heard of a few leaks but given the number of FermZilla units that have been sold I would say the leaks would be in the vicinity of less than 1%. I would say significantly less leaks in FermZilla units than the white HDPE fermenters.

I should also mention that the stock standard FermZilla fermenters come with 2.1mm o-rings and we originally went with this o-ring because it was slightly easier to pull the lid off. With that said the small 2.1mm cross section thickness is easy to damage and doesn't give very high o-ring compression. So we are going to also stock a 2.4/2.5mm o-ring very soon and this makes the lid a tighter fit and more then doubles the o-ring compression. We have found that these give a more reliable seal but just requires a bit more force to remove the lid. These should be on our website in a couple weeks. So if you have purchased a FermZilla and want to try this out I am sure we can throw a free couple of these onto your next order if you like.

At the end of the day if you can identify a problem, we are confident that we can almost always find a solution.


----------



## Meddo

Hey @KegLand-com-au , what's the heat and chemical resistance of the red plastic carb caps, and also the non-tank components of the Fermzilla (lid, valve, o-rings, etc.)? Asking in relation to utilising 65 degree cleaning fluids intended for other equipment during a cleaning session.


----------



## Schikitar

KegLand-com-au said:


> We have heard of a few leaks but given the number of FermZilla units that have been sold I would say the leaks would be in the vicinity of less than 1%.



I'm not saying the FZ's are leaky due to the manufacturing process (with the exception you mention), I'm saying most people don't know how to, for example, tighten the seals properly - it's user error that needs user education (and perhaps a little more on the design side to account for that)..



KegLand-com-au said:


> At the end of the day if you can identify a problem, we are confident that we can almost always find a solution.



I don't doubt that but why not pro-actively start putting those solutions out there as they arise. The KL videos on YT have been great but I think you guys could do more and in doing so you have control over the messaging to your consumers and another way to interact with them..

Just my $0.02


----------



## DaveGillespie

KegLand-com-au said:


> We have heard of a few leaks but given the number of FermZilla units that have been sold I would say the leaks would be in the vicinity of less than 1%. I would say significantly less leaks in FermZilla units than the white HDPE fermenters.
> 
> I should also mention that the stock standard FermZilla fermenters come with 2.1mm o-rings and we originally went with this o-ring because it was slightly easier to pull the lid off. With that said the small 2.1mm cross section thickness is easy to damage and doesn't give very high o-ring compression. So we are going to also stock a 2.4/2.5mm o-ring very soon and this makes the lid a tighter fit and more then doubles the o-ring compression. We have found that these give a more reliable seal but just requires a bit more force to remove the lid. These should be on our website in a couple weeks. So if you have purchased a FermZilla and want to try this out I am sure we can throw a free couple of these onto your next order if you like.
> 
> At the end of the day if you can identify a problem, we are confident that we can almost always find a solution.



I asked this on your Facebook group but received no reply. What about customers outside Australia?

Are these a standard part we can source independently?


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Meddo said:


> Hey @KegLand-com-au , what's the heat and chemical resistance of the red plastic carb caps, and also the non-tank components of the Fermzilla (lid, valve, o-rings, etc.)? Asking in relation to utilising 65 degree cleaning fluids intended for other equipment during a cleaning session.





Meddo said:


> Hey @KegLand-com-au , what's the heat and chemical resistance of the red plastic carb caps, and also the non-tank components of the Fermzilla (lid, valve, o-rings, etc.)? Asking in relation to utilising 65 degree cleaning fluids intended for other equipment during a cleaning session.




This is one of the areas we did do a lot of research as we wanted an alternative to nylon.

The Fermentasaurus was made with Glass Reinforced Nylon and this was quite strong and durable however it could suffer from mild chemical attack especially if some high percentage acid cleaners were used. For instance undiluted Stellarsan or Star San were used on the Fermentasaurus it could cause a mild chemical attack. Somethings this could happen without even realising. For instance if you mix the sanitiser to the correct dilution and then water starts to evaporate from the sanitiser the concentration of phosphoric acid would get high enough that it would eventually attack the nylon.

About 2 years ago we started doing testing on a plastic called Polyketone. This engineering plastic has food grade approvals including FDA and has equivalent strength to nylon however it's got superior chemical resistance and it's similar with it's temperature resistance. Polyketone can be used with caustic soda, phosphoric acid, lactic acid, and many other chemical cleaners found around the house or in the brewery.

65C Water is perfectly fine to use with the red plastic carb caps, the FermZilla Lids, dump valves etc. (just not the actual tank itself)

I actually prefer the red plastic carbonation caps now to the stainless ones and they are a fraction of the price.

With respect to the seals in the carb caps and FermZilla units these can all be washed at 65C quite happily as they are made from almost all EPDM. I think we have a nitrile seal in the carb cap but this will also change to EPDM soon too.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

DaveGillespie said:


> I asked this on your Facebook group but received no reply. What about customers outside Australia?
> 
> Are these a standard part we can source independently?



Outside of Australia we have a range of different distributors that we deal with and the list of distributors can be found on our website here:

https://www.kegland.com.au/distributor/

If you need spare parts, support etc I would start by contacting one of our distributors first. If it's a really new product we generally release in Australia first and then within 2-3 months the products start to trickle down to the other distributors. So if it's a really new product if you can wait a bit longer after it's released your local distributor will probably have it available. If not then contact us and we will do what we can to assist you.

With respect to the o-rings I believe the FermZilla o-rings that are slightly thicker cross section might also be able to be purchased from plumbing supply hardware places as I think they are often used in 100mm food grade PVC pipe end caps. I am yet to try this myself but you might find that the 100mm food grade PVC pipe end caps have replacement o-rings that are about 2.5mm cross section so this should technically be fine but I just have not had the chance to try this myself.


----------



## DaveGillespie

Something like this?

http://www.oringsandmore.com/silicone-o-rings-size-242-price-for-5-pcs/


----------



## KegLand-com-au

DaveGillespie said:


> Something like this?
> 
> http://www.oringsandmore.com/silicone-o-rings-size-242-price-for-5-pcs/



1/8 cross section is just slightly too thick. I think this might not be able to be inserted. I think if you can go down to maximum 2.6mm cross section this would be better. We found that 2.5mm was a tight fit and really probably don't really want to exceed this thickness.

1/8 inch is over 3mm cross section so I think this would not be quite suitable.


----------



## DaveGillespie

http://www.oringsandmore.com/silicone-o-rings-size-155-price-for-2-pcs/

Should be 2.6mm unless I'm wrong?


----------



## AMc1878

Bought my fermzilla a couple of months ago. Done plenty of brews in those couple of months without any issue apart from the standard can't get the top off and the collection bottle is a pain. 
But recently, I thought I'd give fermenting under pressure a go seeing as that's what it is designed for. All good until I went to dry hop using the collection vessel. Beer gushed out everywhere. Closed the valve. Tried again. Same result. By this point I've lost a fair bit of beer. The only way I could stop the leak was to overtighten which I didn't want to do.
I contacted kegland and they told me it was my fault for overtightening! They suggested I change the O ring and test it. I have and it still leaks. I asked if they could replace the valve unit and vessel because that is where leak / fault is or if I could take it to one of their suppliers but they refused even though their t&c's state that they will provide replacement parts to fix a fault. I have to package and post the whole unit back to them which means I'm now going to be without a fermenter for a few weeks.
Most of my brew setup is kegland and I've always been happy with their stuff but this experience has been woeful.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

DaveGillespie said:


> http://www.oringsandmore.com/silicone-o-rings-size-155-price-for-2-pcs/
> 
> Should be 2.6mm unless I'm wrong?



I don't think that is quite right. That link seems to say 3/32" which i believe would be a cross section thickness of about 2.38. It seems that this website also sell some metric o-rings too and you can see them here:

http://www.oringsandmore.com/content/OAMMetricChart.pdf

If you go with the 110mm ID x 2.5mm Cross section that would be the one I would try out.


----------



## Julesf

Just a question about dry hopping in the fermzilla. If I dry hop after primary fermentation is complete (by using the collection chamber after dumping pressure out of the top of the fermzilla) does the CO2 in solution still carry away the hop aroma, or is it not really a problem because at that stage not much CO2 will be pushed out of the fermzilla via the spunding valve as fermentation is mostly done? Hope that makes sense.


----------



## Sandberg

I just tested my Fermzilla for the first time. I used lube on all fittings and had no leaks except for the carbonation caps. Finger tight wasn't enough for me, I had to use a wrench. Maybe I'm just weak or all the lube made it hard to get it tight enough. I have now pressurised it to 10psi and will wait until tomorrow to see if it holds pressure. I was almost about to return it before testing it after reading all comments, but so far it looks like a keeper.


----------



## Mya

Julesf said:


> Just a question about dry hopping in the fermzilla. If I dry hop after primary fermentation is complete (by using the collection chamber after dumping pressure out of the top of the fermzilla) does the CO2 in solution still carry away the hop aroma, or is it not really a problem because at that stage not much CO2 will be pushed out of the fermzilla via the spunding valve as fermentation is mostly done? Hope that makes sense.



Most recommend dry hopping a couple days before primary fermentation is complete actually, so that any oxygen you add to the fermenter is used up by the yeast.


----------



## Julesf

Mya said:


> Most recommend dry hopping a couple days before primary fermentation is complete actually, so that any oxygen you add to the fermenter is used up by the yeast.


What about if I add the hops via the collection chamber, and purge it with CO2 first? Then there should be little to no 02 anyway?


----------



## DaveGillespie

@KegLand-com-au tried a 110mmx2.5mm on the lid, seems to be performing well. Are you trialling a thicker oring on the collection jar? If so, what dimensions?


----------



## Paddy

Julesf said:


> Just a question about dry hopping in the fermzilla. If I dry hop after primary fermentation is complete (by using the collection chamber after dumping pressure out of the top of the fermzilla) does the CO2 in solution still carry away the hop aroma, or is it not really a problem because at that stage not much CO2 will be pushed out of the fermzilla via the spunding valve as fermentation is mostly done? Hope that makes sense.


I have used a couple of options for dry hopping and they are on the faceplant site too. Either through the collection jar for big hops or suspend a hop ball using magnets inside the fermzilla above the wort until you are ready to drop, just did a NEIPA jumped 5 psi and about 2 " of head once I opened the dump valve


----------



## Julesf

Paddy said:


> I have used a couple of options for dry hopping and they are on the faceplant site too. Either through the collection jar for big hops or suspend a hop ball using magnets inside the fermzilla above the wort until you are ready to drop, just did a NEIPA jumped 5 psi and about 2 " of head once I opened the dump valve


Have experienced the same thing. I think when you open the dump valve it causes a drop in pressure which makes the CO2 drop out of the solution to some degree? Something like that and I’m sure someone will correct me if not! That’s what I’m asking about , with all that CO2 bubbling happening would it carry off the hop aroma from the hos that we’re just added? And if that’s the case, would it be better to let the beer decarbonate a little before dry hopping? 
Just trying to maximise the hop factor...


----------



## Substance

Noob mistake or product failure?
Did a late night 10pm transfer from the FermZilla to keg of a well hopped all in brew Mutiny Red IPA brew,
Thought it will be right until I get home the next day to do the clean out.
A me home from work to the strong scent of hops and brew downstairs,
On investigation I found this 





Not sure what the pressure rating is on the tub but it can blow 





The other half of the collection tub was in the opposite corner of the bathroom

Now I have done this procedure several times without a problem.
But this failure I put down to me forgetting to open the valve back up when done as I normally do, allowing the pressure to move to the whole unit, not just the tub alone 
The hydraulic pressure of the hops and yeast would appear to have exceeded the limits of the vessel 

So remember brewers keep the valve open if you do this also, 
I was looking at getting a 2nd bottle anyway for yeast harvesting, so have ordered 2 new bottles instead 

After cleaning this up I thought I would break the seal of the fresh keg of All in Brew Consequences, dumped the first dregs then poured a nice pint and relaxed a bit, came back about an hour later the another fresh smell of brew again to find the new keg had leaked out completely from the ball post “WTF” to all over the floor downstairs, 
start the clean up again 

Wow just wow, what a crap day
Live and learn


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Was your spunding valve not connected?
Maybe thats why they have come up with this the BunkerZilla.


----------



## Neil Buttriss

The problems with this fermenter have me thinking I am happy I didn't jump in, and stuck with the original fermentasaurus which has treated me well and which I will upgrade I reckon. Go the Aussie product


----------



## Substance

Stunting valve was not needed the main fermenter was not under pressure, only the true tub was 100% full with the valve closed , I don’t believe the equipment is the issue only my mistake


----------



## Meddo

Do you really think this is appropriate @CEO Keg King?


----------



## Meddo

This risk is inherent in the design of these unitanks with collection vessels that can be isolated from the safety device (PRV). Seems like the potential damage from failure of the rigid/brittle Fermzilla bottle is much higher than earlier designs though, and is quite concerning. At the very least they should be plastered with warnings not to do this, but better to look into a failsafe design change.

Similar issue I had with a Fermentasaurus bottle by my own ****-up, I capped the yeast and beer and put it into the fridge for later use. Six months passed and I decided to discard, nearly lost an eye when the lid blew off as apparently it had fermented out further in that time and I didn't consider just how high the pressure may have gotten. Without exaggeration it coated the ceiling and room with yeast slurry in a six metre radius (and also my wife, which was perhaps the bigger danger to me...), so this is an indication of the pressures involved.


----------



## CKK

Substance said:


> Stunting valve was not needed the main fermenter was not under pressure, only the true tub was 100% full with the valve closed , I don’t believe the equipment is the issue only my mistake





Meddo said:


> Do you really think this is appropriate @CEO Keg King?
> 
> View attachment 116953


I am happy to keep a customer like Neil for our Aussie made products. Is that a sin? How many our fathers etc should I say? I think there is far worse for you to call out here if you think about it. I like what the man said and that is fair dinkum.


----------



## Meddo

CEO Keg King said:


> I am happy to keep a customer like Neil for our Aussie made products. Is that a sin? How many our fathers etc should I say? I think there is far worse for you to call out here if you think about it. I like what the man said and that is fair dinkum.


Time and a place, and your competitor's thread isn't it in my view. But if you're comfortable then so be it.


----------



## CKK

Meddo said:


> Time and a place, and your competitor's thread isn't it in my view. But if you're comfortable then so be it.


They send people to post on ours all the time and I don’t see you calling that out?? I stayed quiet for a long time whilst we had shit dumped on us. When someone gives us a compliment then I am happy to like. I did not post until you had a go and I don’t see why I should shut up whilst you cast unwarranted aspersions. If you do that then don’t expect me to sit quietly ignoring this with the feigned holier than though bit. Suggest we leave it at that,


----------



## Meddo

CEO Keg King said:


> They send people to post on ours all the time and I don’t see you calling that out?? I stayed quiet for a long time whilst we had shit dumped on us. When someone gives us a compliment then I am happy to like. I did not post until you had a go and I don’t see why I should shut up whilst you cast unwarranted aspersions. If you do that then don’t expect me to sit quietly ignoring this with the feigned holier than though bit. Suggest we leave it at that,


I'm not sure who expected you to shut up, and I'm not sure what aspersions have been cast, I just questioned whether it's a great look for someone with "CEO company name" in their title to be visibly liking a post critical of their competitor in a thread specific to that competitor. Doesn't feel right to me, and if the red figurehead did that in the Fermentasaurus thread I'd ask the question there too, or any of the other sponsors. If you're comfortable then fair enough, I don't own this place (nor do I pay to be here any longer) and my view isn't everyone's.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Meddo said:


> Do you really think this is appropriate @CEO Keg King?


Have a look through the KK Fermentasaurus thread, not only will you find a like from Keg Land for a negative post about the Snub Nose, but they joined in the fray with a post of their own! Saying its a load of crap who's idea was this. Now they have only gone and copied the God damned thing!


----------



## Meddo

wide eyed and legless said:


> Have a look through the KK Fermentasaurus thread, not only will you find a like from Keg Land for a negative post about the Snub Nose, but they joined in the fray with a post of their own! Saying its a load of crap who's idea was this. Now they have only gone and copied the God damned thing!


Fair enough, didn't see that one but poor form too by the sound of it.


----------



## Nullnvoid

Substance said:


> Noob mistake or product failure?
> Did a late night 10pm transfer from the FermZilla to keg of a well hopped all in brew Mutiny Red IPA brew,
> Thought it will be right until I get home the next day to do the clean out.
> A me home from work to the strong scent of hops and brew downstairs,
> On investigation I found this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what the pressure rating is on the tub but it can blow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The other half of the collection tub was in the opposite corner of the bathroom
> 
> Now I have done this procedure several times without a problem.
> But this failure I put down to me forgetting to open the valve back up when done as I normally do, allowing the pressure to move to the whole unit, not just the tub alone
> The hydraulic pressure of the hops and yeast would appear to have exceeded the limits of the vessel
> 
> So remember brewers keep the valve open if you do this also,
> I was looking at getting a 2nd bottle anyway for yeast harvesting, so have ordered 2 new bottles instead
> 
> After cleaning this up I thought I would break the seal of the fresh keg of All in Brew Consequences, dumped the first dregs then poured a nice pint and relaxed a bit, came back about an hour later the another fresh smell of brew again to find the new keg had leaked out completely from the ball post “WTF” to all over the floor downstairs,
> start the clean up again
> 
> Wow just wow, what a crap day
> Live and learn



I had a similar issue a couple months back. Closed the valve to take the yeast away but suddenly life got in the way. Then discovered this. 

Not as bad as yours, mine blew the cap off. Haven't had to clean up a poo explosion since the little girl was little [emoji23]


----------



## Edward Rowe

Meddo said:


> Do you really think this is appropriate @CEO Keg King?
> 
> View attachment 116953



I would have to agree with this, especially when the two people who have liked the post are the CEO and an employee, doesn't present a good image.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Meddo said:


> Fair enough, didn't see that one but poor form too by the sound of it.


I agree with you it is poor form, but giving a like to NB for his praise for the KK product is no biggie.
As I have said many times before I was in no ones camp when the KL, KK thing started until this post (191) and more after, throwing shit at another entity who has no right of reply. Just a form of bullying and I can't stand bullies. 
https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/kegking-now-at-keg-king-com-au.97238/page-10


----------



## CKK

Meddo said:


> I'm not sure who expected you to shut up, and I'm not sure what aspersions have been cast, I just questioned whether it's a great look for someone with "CEO company name" in their title to be visibly liking a post critical of their competitor in a thread specific to that competitor. Doesn't feel right to me, and if the red figurehead did that in the Fermentasaurus thread I'd ask the question there too, or any of the other sponsors. If you're comfortable then fair enough, I don't own this place (nor do I pay to be here any longer) and my view isn't everyone's.


Well I liked a post by someone who is happy with us and it had no other connotations such as what you are trying to put on it. Why should I not be proud that someone is pleased with our gear? I don’t have to hide and you were so obviously goading and trying to serve up your dose of critical admonishment that I think it fair to defend myself no matter how it “feels “ to you. Go and take it out on those who continue to try and trash whatever we put up if you want to show that you are fair. Why can I not like what the man said without you getting sanctimonious and pushing me to respond. Leave it already if you can but if not then take it offline and I will be happy to have PM with you.


----------



## Meddo

Yeah forget it, no point continuing this and contributing further to an already excess level of snark at this place.


----------



## Meddo

Nullnvoid said:


> I had a similar issue a couple months back. Closed the valve to take the yeast away but suddenly life got in the way. Then discovered this.
> 
> Not as bad as yours, mine blew the cap off. Haven't had to clean up a poo explosion since the little girl was little [emoji23]View attachment 116955
> View attachment 116956


Good thing you had a plastic cap on, wouldn't like to see one of the steel caps ejected.


----------



## Substance

Nullnvoid said:


> I had a similar issue a couple months back. Closed the valve to take the yeast away but suddenly life got in the way. Then discovered this.
> 
> Not as bad as yours, mine blew the cap off. Haven't had to clean up a poo explosion since the little girl was little [emoji23]View attachment 116955
> View attachment 116956


Glad I’m not the only one lol


----------



## TheBeerBaron

CEO Keg King said:


> pleased with our gear



Never fails to amuse me that the only reason you have the Fermentasaurus to sell at all is because it was left to you by the departing KegLand people. You should really be thanking them 

Oh, before you ask

- No I don't work for KegLand
- No, I don't want you phone number to chat


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Substance said:


> Stunting valve was not needed the main fermenter was not under pressure, only the true tub was 100% full with the valve closed , I don’t believe the equipment is the issue only my mistake


I understand now what happened, easy mistake to make. That's the problem with the butterfly valve you have equal lbs force of the pressure pushing to open it and the pressure to keep it closed.
Another plus for the Fermenter King plunger fitting,the pressure would have just lifted the plunger and saved any dramas.


----------



## CKK

TheBeerBaron said:


> Never fails to amuse me that the only reason you have the Fermentasaurus to sell at all is because it was left to you by the departing KegLand people. You should really be thanking them
> 
> Oh, before you ask
> 
> - No I don't work for KegLand
> - No, I don't want you phone number to chat


You are easily amused then. Never fails to amuse me too that it was all stuff done on KK money, KK paid for time and in KK paid for factory. So yes we do own it and no need for thanking when you have already paid for it. Though the design was actually done by others and our team has made it way better than it started life as. Hence the dropping of the reptilian moniker which a good product does not deserve. The Europeans just went apeshit over it last week at the Brau Beviale show where we had a stand showing off a great Aussie product. Even David Heath commented on the quality when he popped by. 

Thanks for the heads up that you just want to stir and have no interest in the truth. Just try to lob something and run quickly rather than have the whole story come out.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

CEO Keg King said:


> You are easily amused then. Never fails to amuse me too that it was all stuff done on KK money, KK paid for time and in KK paid for factory. So yes we do own it and no need for thanking when you have already paid for it. Thanks for the heads up that you just want to stir and have no interest in the truth. Just try to lob something and run quickly rather than have the whole story come out.



the issue is you carrying on like a jealous ex-girlfriend shitting on them where ever possible with fake profiles etc. 

Never encountered such an irritating business employee such as yourself.


----------



## Meddo

wide eyed and legless said:


> I understand now what happened, easy mistake to make. That's the problem with the butterfly valve you have equal lbs force of the pressure pushing to open it and the pressure to keep it closed.
> Another plus for the Fermenter King plunger fitting,the pressure would have just lifted the plunger and saved any dramas.


How is the plunger secured in the closed position? I assume it doesn't rely on a pressure differential?


----------



## CKK

TheBeerBaron said:


> the issue is you carrying on like a jealous ex-girlfriend shitting on them where ever possible with fake profiles etc.
> 
> Never encountered such an irritating business employee such as yourself.



Hate to tell you but I don’t get paid so really not an employee. I do what I do to because I believe in people doing the right thing. Fortunately there are many others who believe in this too. Your irritation is pretty much self inflicted and not worthy of a Baron title.


----------



## CKK

Meddo said:


> How is the plunger secured in the closed position? I assume it doesn't rely on a pressure differential?


No it does not. Held in place by O ring seals when open and by tank pressure when closed. If pressure in the bottle gets too big it just pushes up. The main tank is of course protected by the PRV.


----------



## Meddo

CEO Keg King said:


> No it does not. Held in place by O ring seals when open and by tank pressure when closed. If pressure in the bottle gets too big it just pushes up. The main tank is of course protected by the PRV.


That sounds like a pressure differential... Probably a good solution to the overpressure risk in the collection bottle, it means you can't reliably leave the bottle attached with the plug closed (not a good idea anyway)b if you do and it opens no real harm done (aside from stirring up the contents). You'd probably only do that once


----------



## CKK

Meddo said:


> That sounds like a pressure differential... Probably a good solution to the overpressure risk in the collection bottle, it means you can't reliably leave the bottle attached with the plug closed (not a good idea anyway)b if you do and it opens no real harm done (aside from stirring up the contents). You'd probably only do that once


Basically if the pressure in the bottle becomes greater than the main tank it will push the plunger up. The main tank is of course limited by the PRV. So effectively the collection bottle is limited by this also. It’s a fail safe scenario. Also the PET is quite flexible and does not crack like Polycarbonate


----------



## Schikitar

I wonder what pressure the collection jar is rated to (with the valve closed) because I always get a bit nervous pumping ~30psi through it when trying to purge O2 before the dry hop.. now I feel like I might need to wear safety glasses when doing this!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

That's a good point Schiktar, I think it should carry a warning, its a mistake anyone can make. How many of us have left a fermenter tap on when filling it, and more than once. 
I haven't read the instruction manual onto whether it addresses the closing of the BV and leaving yeast in there. Things like that should be written in big red letters. Human error has to be taken into account.


----------



## DazH

Perhaps a PRV could/should be fitted to the collection jar to prevent it from rupturing ?


----------



## Neil Buttriss

Schikitar said:


> I wonder what pressure the collection jar is rated to (with the valve closed) because I always get a bit nervous pumping ~30psi through it when trying to purge O2 before the dry hop.. now I feel like I might need to wear safety glasses when doing this!


I don't think safety glasses would help, normally when you are either getting the yeast or dry hopping you are down to the same level as the container, these look they really let go.
If it were my business I would be very concerned about the containers blowing up as if someone receives a significant injury it could be bad. I reckon KL should put an immediate warning out there recommending people don't pressure ferment in this vessel until a fix is found or at least don't use the catching container. Interesting to note this problem has only surfaced since the leak fix has been implemented. My opinion is that the collection Container is not fit for Purpose.


----------



## goatchop41

Neil Buttriss said:


> I reckon KL should put an immediate warning out there recommending people don't pressure ferment in this vessel until a fix is found or at least don't use the catching container. Interesting to note this problem has only surfaced since the leak fix has been implemented. My opinion is that the collection Container is not fit for Purpose.



A bit of a ridiculous overreaction on your behalf, I would say. Both of these issues have been from people closing the valve on still fermenting wort/yeast, then leaving it for an extended period of time.
The instruction manual clearly states, "Keep the butterfly valve always open during fermentation. Only close the butterfly valve once fermentation has ceased and hydrometer readings are stable for 3 consecutive days". Maybe people using it just need to take some responsibility and actually read the manual, and follow it before using the product?
Do they really need to state in big letters: 'DON'T BE A DICKHEAD AND CLOSE THIS OFF, THEN LET THE WORT IN IT KEEP FERMENTING AND GET UP TO STUPIDLY HIGH PRESSURES'?


----------



## soreba

goatchop41 said:


> Do they really need to state in big letters: 'DON'T BE A DICKHEAD AND CLOSE THIS OFF, THEN LET THE WORT IN IT KEEP FERMENTING AND GET UP TO STUPIDLY HIGH PRESSURES'?



+1 If anything they may need to just place something on the lid at the factory saying to read the manual before use like alot of gas heating appliances do. But
If everyone actually read the manual alot of these problems wouldn't happen.

Also, some people just need to actually research conicals & pressure fermentation.. The amount of times i see on the fb groups people asking whether to ferment with the valve open or closed means some people really need to stick to unpressurised buckets.

Its easy enough to create bottle bombs when storing bottled beer.. Are glass bottles not fit for purpose as well?


----------



## Nullnvoid

goatchop41 said:


> A bit of a ridiculous overreaction on your behalf, I would say. Both of these issues have been from people closing the valve on still fermenting wort/yeast, then leaving it for an extended period of time.
> The instruction manual clearly states, "Keep the butterfly valve always open during fermentation. Only close the butterfly valve once fermentation has ceased and hydrometer readings are stable for 3 consecutive days". Maybe people using it just need to take some responsibility and actually read the manual, and follow it before using the product?
> Do they really need to state in big letters: 'DON'T BE A DICKHEAD AND CLOSE THIS OFF, THEN LET THE WORT IN IT KEEP FERMENTING AND GET UP TO STUPIDLY HIGH PRESSURES'?



Exactly, I know in my case it was my own stupid fault. Nothing to do with the product, just the stupid user.


----------



## Meddo

soreba said:


> +1 If anything they may need to just place something on the lid at the factory saying to read the manual before use like alot of gas heating appliances do. But
> If everyone actually read the manual alot of these problems wouldn't happen.
> 
> Also, some people just need to actually research conicals & pressure fermentation.. The amount of times i see on the fb groups people asking whether to ferment with the valve open or closed means some people really need to stick to unpressurised buckets.
> 
> *Its easy enough to create bottle bombs when storing bottled beer.. Are glass bottles not fit for purpose as well?*


Appropriate analogy, one I considered making myself earlier. We know how easy it can be to cause damage with glass bottles of proper practices aren't followed.

Placing warnings on products isn't sissy, it can help prevent injury. Your anecdote about people on Facebook suggests that these people need to be considered part of the target audience and allowed for when considering designed failsafes, warning labels, and any other risk reduction methods. We all have brain-farts at times, too, as much as most of us like to consider ourselves smarter than the average bear.

I should note that I only flicked through the paperwork and unpacked my unit pretty quickly so there may be warnings/instructions present that I've just forgotten about...


----------



## Nullnvoid

Brewing sounds dangerous. Maybe we should all stop doing it


----------



## Meddo

Well yeah, it CAN be dangerous - high temperatures, high pressures, chemicals, gases, dodgy wiring jobs, diacetyl-bomb APAs...

All reasonable precautions and all that


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Nullnvoid said:


> Exactly, I know in my case it was my own stupid fault. Nothing to do with the product, just the stupid user.


Not stupid, it can happen quite easily, a small warning label reminder on the collection bottle is no biggie, could save Maurice Blackburn Lawyers coming after you down the track.
Doesn't matter what is written in the manual, that can be side stepped with, ' I didn't understand it' plea.
Had it happen to me with a tenant renting a house off me, $800 or so for a contract, which he signed, worth nothing when he said, I didn't know what I was signing.


----------



## CKK

goatchop41 said:


> A bit of a ridiculous overreaction on your behalf, I would say. Both of these issues have been from people closing the valve on still fermenting wort/yeast, then leaving it for an extended period of time.
> The instruction manual clearly states, "Keep the butterfly valve always open during fermentation. Only close the butterfly valve once fermentation has ceased and hydrometer readings are stable for 3 consecutive days". Maybe people using it just need to take some responsibility and actually read the manual, and follow it before using the product?
> Do they really need to state in big letters: 'DON'T BE A DICKHEAD AND CLOSE THIS OFF, THEN LET THE WORT IN IT KEEP FERMENTING AND GET UP TO STUPIDLY HIGH PRESSURES'?


So you never made a mistake or forgot something? Full marks for defending the indefensible by calling Brewers stupid. Wish I could get away with that and not waste my time trying my best to get our engineers to make safety the main priority. I was not going to post here any more but if anything is ridiculous then it’s this idea that something that can go bang like this and it’s not had any thought put into preventing it should be put down to user stupidity I think it’s fair to post. Someone could get seriously hurt by a Polycarbonate shard and you want to find an excuse in user ignorance? Maybe we could sell cars without brakes as drivers should not use speeds that need them? No point to have fuses or circuit breakers either I suppose. Users should know what can happen. No need for life jackets if you stay out of the water. Safety belts? Who needs them? They are just like unnecessary smoke detectors and safety valves. At least put a bloody warning on it if it can blow. Never heard so much tripe in my life. People make mistakes so we need to make sure they know if there is a risk. For everyone posting here I wonder how many others have been exposed but never said anything.


----------



## Mya

goatchop41 said:


> A bit of a ridiculous overreaction on your behalf, I would say. Both of these issues have been from people closing the valve on still fermenting wort/yeast, then leaving it for an extended period of time.
> The instruction manual clearly states, "Keep the butterfly valve always open during fermentation. Only close the butterfly valve once fermentation has ceased and hydrometer readings are stable for 3 consecutive days". Maybe people using it just need to take some responsibility and actually read the manual, and follow it before using the product?
> Do they really need to state in big letters: 'DON'T BE A DICKHEAD AND CLOSE THIS OFF, THEN LET THE WORT IN IT KEEP FERMENTING AND GET UP TO STUPIDLY HIGH PRESSURES'?



Can you honestly and without any shadow of a doubt say that you have read every single line of every single operating manual from every single thing you've purchased? Especially any electronic devices or appliances, they often come with warnings that MOST people completely ignore. What about your entire car manual?

One line in the manual is insufficient if there is a credible risk to personal safety, ESPECIALLY when the line in the manual doesn't even notify you of such risk, it just tells you to do it but not why to do it. Just because you can come to the conclusion as to why this should be the case does not mean that everyone can. It is the obligation of a manufacturer to design instructions and safety features for the lowest common denominator. Common sense is not so common.

Actual safety warnings from larger manufacturers come in standard red font with red box outline and inform you of the safety risk. I doubt this line from the manual was ever intended to act as a safety warning, more just to prevent trub blowouts if you have a pressure differential between the valve when you take the bottle off, and also to prevent undue stress on the butterfly valve seal during normal operation and prolong the seal life.


----------



## goatchop41

CEO Keg King said:


> Someone could get seriously hurt by a Polycarbonate shard and you want to find an excuse in user ignorance? Maybe we could sell cars without brakes as drivers should not use speeds that need them? No point to have fuses or circuit breakers either I suppose. Users should know what can happen. No need for life jackets if you stay out of the water. Safety belts? Who needs them? They are just like unnecessary smoke detectors and safety valves. At least put a bloody warning on it if it can blow. Never heard so much tripe in my life.



You've immediately jumped to hyperbole there, those examples are clearly not comparable to this situation. If we follow the argument that is being made here about safety warnings, then every single homebrew kit that comes with glass bottles should have a big, red warning, in capitals about the possibility of exploding bottles, etc.
Yes, I agree that perhaps some more detailed info in the manual about it would be a good idea, but we also need to put some sort of onus on the user too, to actually learn how to use their equipment and understand the different components of it. We expect the same with power tools, etc. Yes, they have some warnings on them/in the manuals, but they don't cover absolutely everything - there is an element of user responsibility and understanding that must kick in at some point. Let's also not forget how many idiots ignore all of those warnings anyway, operating power tools without PPE, etc.


----------



## Substance

Wow this escallated some what from my original intention to bring awareness of potential outcomes from *"forgetting"* steps in a simple proceedure.

Sure read the manual it could say don't leave trub in the collection container & don't forget to open the valve etc, 
but as for warning lables etc whats the point, if you forget or don't follow the safe use steps.

So my guns don't have or need warning labels all over them to use them, but if I didn't follow or miss/forget a step in the simple procedure on the correct use and hurt myself, should I add warning labels all over them to remind me for next time? I think not.

As for warning the stupid out of things, should there be a "not for internal use" label on it also then? (they are out there & live amongst us)

I live by the philosophy 
"Learn from other peoples mistakes, as life's to short to make them all yourself"

share your experiences, live & learn people 

now lets stop the nit picking, bickering & snide comments back and forth and get back to what we enjoy and are here for 
sharing the joy & experiences of Home Brewing within our community 

peace out


----------



## soreba

Substance said:


> Wow this escallated some what from my original intention to bring awareness of potential outcomes from *"forgetting"* steps in a simple proceedure.



Yeah not really that big of an issue... Some safety sally's out there and people saying to not use the dangerously explosive polycarbonate product and use my product. 

I remember when i used to go on the Homebrewing subreddit heaps there was always someone in the USA every 3-4 months that would drop a glass carboy... and then post pics of the aftermath post emergency room with foot lacerations. Same thing right? no one is suing the carboy manufacturer.. (well, maybe they are, they tend to do that in america)


----------



## wide eyed and legless

soreba said:


> I remember when i used to go on the Homebrewing subreddit heaps there was always someone in the USA every 3-4 months that would drop a glass carboy... and then post pics of the aftermath post emergency room with foot lacerations. Same thing right? no one is suing the carboy manufacturer.. (well, maybe they are, they tend to do that in america)



My all time favourite in the suing mentality in the USA. Though not fact.
https://www.heraldtribune.com/news/...e-shows-truth-behind-frivolous-lawsuit-claims


----------



## Ballaratguy

The only trouble with instruction manuals is that they are written (I apologise for any politically incorrectness) in “Chinglish”
As a retired safety professional, maybe I’m from old school but I think we are “dumbing down” people and trying to explain everything to the nth degree and not allowing people to think for themselves


----------



## CKK

Ballaratguy said:


> The only trouble with instruction manuals is that they are written (I apologise for any politically incorrectness) in “Chinglish”
> As a retired safety professional, maybe I’m from old school but I think we are “dumbing down” people and trying to explain everything to the nth degree and not allowing people to think for themselves


Yes manuals like that irritate me too so we usually do them ourselves. Others we redo.

Of course authorities like to unload responsibility on to the supplier but the supplier should make sure that the things they sell fail safe or else prominently warn of what can happen.


----------



## Edward Rowe

I thought there was etiquette about other sponsors* not commenting on threads of rival companies.




*Unless they are doing it under a sneaky account they have created.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Edward Rowe said:


> I thought there was etiquette about other sponsors* not commenting on threads of rival companies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Unless they are doing it under a sneaky account they have created.


First off it isn't a competitors thread, its an open thread. As for sneaky account, who was you when you were previously on this forum?
Nothing constructive in any of your posts, only negative comments.


----------



## fungrel

Ballaratguy said:


> The only trouble with instruction manuals is that they are written (I apologise for any politically incorrectness) in “Chinglish”
> As a retired safety professional, maybe I’m from old school but I think we are “dumbing down” people and trying to explain everything to the nth degree and not allowing people to think for themselves


You're not 'dumbing down people' - it's called good design.
Consumers know value proposition (consciously or unconsciously) when they see it, and if you let consumers work out it for themselves.. Well it's pretty clear to everyone you're importing gear from China without any idea of how your brand is percieved in the market.


----------



## Neil Buttriss

soreba said:


> Yeah not really that big of an issue... Some safety sally's out there and people saying to not use the dangerously explosive polycarbonate product and use my product.
> 
> I remember when i used to go on the Homebrewing subreddit heaps there was always someone in the USA every 3-4 months that would drop a glass carboy... and then post pics of the aftermath post emergency room with foot lacerations. Same thing right? no one is suing the carboy manufacturer.. (well, maybe they are, they tend to do that in america)


I'm sorry I'm maybe your Safety Sally, but in my line of work (which I have doing for 45years), safety is of the utmost importance and always has been, no matter how minor if an injury can be prevented then it should be. Warning stickers say a lot more than a manual does.


----------



## Kenf

Ballaratguy said:


> The only trouble with instruction manuals is that they are written (I apologise for any politically incorrectness) in “Chinglish”
> As a retired safety professional, maybe I’m from old school but I think we are “dumbing down” people and trying to explain everything to the nth degree and not allowing people to think for themselves


As a current Safety Professional (that should be retired), I partially agree.
However this particular hazard might not be that obvious to people who are not knowledgeable in the area of plastics.
You are also correct about the manuals, they tend to be a bit sparse and don’t read well. A warning label on the container is a perfectly reasonable fix! Afterall GF had Warning Hot Surface on an Urn!
And I used to have a warning label on my setup that read “WARNING Not to be operated by Fuckwits!”
Cheers


----------



## hopnotic

My fermzilla 27L is leaking from the "double threaded spigot" on the base of the vessel as per photo below. I have the conical rubber seal on the outside of the PET vessel with the threaded ring over the top.

It looks like the conical rubber seal might go inside the vessel as suggested by the first diagram on p.6 of the PDF below, but it's a nasty smelling rubber material that I wouldn't want in contact with my beer.

I've wasted my entire afternoon (and a lot of C02) doing leak tests, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

https://www.kegland.com.au/media/pdf/FermZilla Instructions for 27L and 55Lv2.pdf


----------



## Nullnvoid

hopnotic said:


> My fermzilla 27L is leaking from the "double threaded spigot" on the base of the vessel as per photo below. I have the conical rubber seal on the outside of the PET vessel with the threaded ring over the top.
> 
> It looks like the conical rubber seal might go inside the vessel as suggested by the first diagram on p.6 of the PDF below, but it's a nasty smelling rubber material that I wouldn't want in contact with my beer.
> 
> I've wasted my entire afternoon (and a lot of C02) doing leak tests, so any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> https://www.kegland.com.au/media/pdf/FermZilla Instructions for 27L and 55Lv2.pdf
> 
> View attachment 117101



Rubber seal has to go on the inside.


----------



## chesl73

It's likely I'm going to buy the FermZilla All-Rounder next week and I had a question re how others take samples for their hydrometer to check the FG during fermentation. So am I right in saying in order to get a sample I'd have to attach a CO2 bottle via the gas connector and then hook up a short line of tubing with say a pluto gun on the end in order to draw the beer out from the liquid connector?
This seems like a lot of work/effort just to get a reading of my FG, given my gas bottle is already used in my small kegerator and it's difficult to get at in my setup I'd then likely have to buy a second CO2 bottle which again seems like overkill.
Am I missing something, is there an easier way?


----------



## TheBeerBaron

chesl73 said:


> It's likely I'm going to buy the FermZilla All-Rounder next week and I had a question re how others take samples for their hydrometer to check the FG during fermentation. So am I right in saying in order to get a sample I'd have to attach a CO2 bottle via the gas connector and then hook up a short line of tubing with say a pluto gun on the end in order to draw the beer out from the liquid connector?
> This seems like a lot of work/effort just to get a reading of my FG, given my gas bottle is already used in my small kegerator and it's difficult to get at in my setup I'd then likely have to buy a second CO2 bottle which again seems like overkill.
> Am I missing something, is there an easier way?



If you’re fermenting under pressure, you’ll have enough to pull a sample.. I ferment at about 12-15psi and don’t have an issue. Just use a short beerline with bronco tap and disconnect 

BUT I got a Tilt for Xmas so won’t have to do that any longer. But it’s good to have if you want to sample

You will need a bottle to do closed transfers.. I have the same issue lugging the big 6kg up and down to the garage for this so I’m going to get a second 2.6kg bottle


----------



## chesl73

Yes, ok. Thanks. 
I have an ispindel which works well so I only take the one reading right at the end before keg transfer to get an accurate FG.
Do you have it under pressure from day 1 of the fermentation or do you only close it part way through?


----------



## pauly

chesl73 said:


> Do you have it under pressure from day 1 of the fermentation or do you only close it part way through?


I think it depends on what you are going for. I see some people are brewing it at low PSI (like 3 or 4) and just using the FZ for a pressure transfer to a purged keg. Others seem to be fermenting at a higher pressure and temperature with the theory that the pressure supreses the esters and allows a quicker ferment (esp with lagers).

Personally I top it up to 15 PSI straight after pitching and I set the spunding to 25 PSI and I ferment at ambient temps (about 20-25C here). I have used US-05, S-04 and BE-154 and they have all finished in 3-4 days with fairly high attenuation. I am very lazy at the moment and I think the FZ is great for that. I pitch on a FWK on Saturday, dry hop before work on Tuesday, cold crash on Friday night and keg it on Sunday.


----------



## Paddy

Chesl73 I pretty much do the same as Pauly and it works a treat +1 for the Tilt as well, I setup my gas with a 4 way splitter with the fourth line long enough to reach the Fermzilla in the other fridge. I have a mini reg on a sodastream bottle which is handy, along with harvesting excess gas into a spare keg to use when cold crashing or cleaning etc.


----------



## Saersy

Hey all dont know if this has been raised before but i need some help or suggestions. when it comes to dry hopping under pressure I set my spunding at 25psi so its carbed by the time i keg. I shut the butterfly valve and go to release the pressure slowly out of the pet screw lid on the collection jar. Twice the thing has blown off and hops have gone everywhere haha. Litterally a hop explosion. Dont know the best way to release the pressure in the collection jar to then add more hops for dry hopping.


----------



## golfandbrew

Saersy said:


> Hey all dont know if this has been raised before but i need some help or suggestions. when it comes to dry hopping under pressure I set my spunding at 25psi so its carbed by the time i keg. I shut the butterfly valve and go to release the pressure slowly out of the pet screw lid on the collection jar. Twice the thing has blown off and hops have gone everywhere haha. Litterally a hop explosion. Dont know the best way to release the pressure in the collection jar to then add more hops for dry hopping.



Two suggestions: 
Don't put your dry hops under 25 PSI and purge from headspace. 
Bonus suggestion: dry hops once.


----------



## Vic

Saersy said:


> Hey all dont know if this has been raised before but i need some help or suggestions. when it comes to dry hopping under pressure I set my spunding at 25psi so its carbed by the time i keg. I shut the butterfly valve and go to release the pressure slowly out of the pet screw lid on the collection jar. Twice the thing has blown off and hops have gone everywhere haha. Litterally a hop explosion. Dont know the best way to release the pressure in the collection jar to then add more hops for dry hopping.


Originally posted 3/10/19. “An easy way to dry hop using a Fermzilla and keeping O2 out. If under pressure, release pressure via PRV. Remove gas post, don't worry, air won't enter, liquid will still be giving up CO2. Using a funnel add hops via the opening where the gas post was. Don't worry about releasing pressure, little carbonation will be lost. You can always add some extra CO2 if you wish. If not fermenting under pressure, connect a CO2 line to the liquid post, set regulator to minimum. Turn gas on until bubbles can be seen coming out the dip tube, remove gas post & dry hop. EASY.”


----------



## Grmblz

Saersy said:


> Hey all dont know if this has been raised before but i need some help or suggestions. when it comes to dry hopping under pressure I set my spunding at 25psi so its carbed by the time i keg. I shut the butterfly valve and go to release the pressure slowly out of the pet screw lid on the collection jar. Twice the thing has blown off and hops have gone everywhere haha. Litterally a hop explosion. Dont know the best way to release the pressure in the collection jar to then add more hops for dry hopping.


It's been mentioned before, hop socks with a magnet in them, NOT! the black ferrous ones but the shiny little rare earth things on evil bay, magnet on the outside of fermenter to hold it in place, when you want to hop just remove external magnet, and sock n hops fall into wort. Any oxygen in the hop sock will have been purged during fermentation and the saurus has enough head space for 4 or 5 hop additions, no worries about pressure. I would question the need for 25 psi but each to their own. For hot and quick without the pressure try a Kveik unless you're doing lagers of course.


----------



## Elmar

Saersy said:


> Hey all dont know if this has been raised before but i need some help or suggestions. when it comes to dry hopping under pressure I set my spunding at 25psi so its carbed by the time i keg. I shut the butterfly valve and go to release the pressure slowly out of the pet screw lid on the collection jar. Twice the thing has blown off and hops have gone everywhere haha. Litterally a hop explosion. Dont know the best way to release the pressure in the collection jar to then add more hops for dry hopping.


You could use one of the cheap carbonation caps on your collection container, put on a quick disconnect and some beerline with a tap and release pressure slowly


----------



## Saersy

Grmblz said:


> It's been mentioned before, hop socks with a magnet in them, NOT! the black ferrous ones but the shiny little rare earth things on evil bay, magnet on the outside of fermenter to hold it in place, when you want to hop just remove external magnet, and sock n hops fall into wort. Any oxygen in the hop sock will have been purged during fermentation and the saurus has enough head space for 4 or 5 hop additions, no worries about pressure. I would question the need for 25 psi but each to their own. For hot and quick without the pressure try a Kveik unless you're doing lagers of course.


25psi drops down to about 8psi and 2.3 vols of co2 when cold crashed to 2°c so perfect carbonation once its done but good idea with the magnets.


----------



## Saersy

Elmar said:


> You could use one of the cheap carbonation caps on your collection container, put on a quick disconnect and some beerline with a tap and release pressure slowly


Yeah i think that's the easiest and best option hopefully the plastic ones are easier to pull apart and clean than the stainless ones as theyll get clogged up with hops


----------



## Nullnvoid

Saersy said:


> Yeah i think that's the easiest and best option hopefully the plastic ones are easier to pull apart and clean than the stainless ones as theyll get clogged up with hops



I reckon the plastic ones are a pain in the arse. And I don't think they come apart for cleaning. From what I have seen.

I've gone back to the stainless, very easier to use and clean and just bought some new washers so they seal properly


----------



## cb341982

Hey Null. I'm not a big fan of the red plastic carb caps either. I pulled a few apart to clean and the o rings just sh1t themselves . Replaced the o rings and they were a nightmare to get back together. What size/material/where did you get your replacement washers for the stainless carb caps from?


----------



## Nullnvoid

cb341982 said:


> Hey Null. I'm not a big fan of the red plastic carb caps either. I pulled a few apart to clean and the o rings just sh1t themselves . Replaced the o rings and they were a nightmare to get back together. What size/material/where did you get your replacement washers for the stainless carb caps from?



It was KL07177 (5 Pack) Camlock Replacement seal from Kegland. Works a treat and they are nice and thick.


----------



## Grok

cb341982 said:


> Hey Null. I'm not a big fan of the red plastic carb caps either. I pulled a few apart to clean and the o rings just sh1t themselves . Replaced the o rings and they were a nightmare to get back together. What size/material/where did you get your replacement washers for the stainless carb caps from?



Grolsch flip top bottle red rubber seals work ok as well on the stainless caps.


----------



## Mya

Grmblz said:


> It's been mentioned before, hop socks with a magnet in them, NOT! the black ferrous ones but the shiny little rare earth things on evil bay, magnet on the outside of fermenter to hold it in place, when you want to hop just remove external magnet, and sock n hops fall into wort. Any oxygen in the hop sock will have been purged during fermentation and the saurus has enough head space for 4 or 5 hop additions, no worries about pressure. I would question the need for 25 psi but each to their own. For hot and quick without the pressure try a Kveik unless you're doing lagers of course.



I don't trust cheap rare earth magnets. Is there any reliable way to make these inert? Like a thin silicone covering for the inside magnet?


----------



## f00b4r

Mya said:


> I don't trust cheap rare earth magnets. Is there any reliable way to make these inert? Like a thin silicone covering for the inside magnet?



You can buy Teflon coated ones.


----------



## Vic

Mya said:


> I don't trust cheap rare earth magnets. Is there any reliable way to make these inert? Like a thin silicone covering for the inside magnet?


Use a magnetic stir bar in the hop sock. They come Teflon coated. On the outside use a powerful rare earth magnet.


----------



## Mya

Vic said:


> Use a magnetic stir bar in the hop sock. They come Teflon coated. On the outside use a powerful rare earth magnet.



The magnetic stir bars are powerful enough to hold up 200g+ of dry hops?


----------



## Vic

Mya said:


> The magnetic stir bars are powerful enough to hold up 200g+ of dry hops?


No problem with up to 100g. I haven’t tried with any more but should be OK provided outside magnet is powerful enough. Or use 2 bags.


----------



## Mya

Cheers.

Has anyone had cleaning issues with being unable to use hot water in these?


----------



## TheBeerBaron

Mya said:


> Cheers.
> 
> Has anyone had cleaning issues with being unable to use hot water in these?



FermZilla (body) can't tolerate anything above 50 Celsius. So depending on how hot your water gets out of the tap, might not be a good idea

This is in the instructions


----------



## Mya

Yep I realise that, which is specifically why I asked if anyone has had any issues in cleaning the product without using hot water...


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Mya said:


> Cheers.
> 
> Has anyone had cleaning issues with being unable to use hot water in these?


With my PET fermenters fill past the krausen mark with cold water disolve a tablespoon of sodium perborate in a cup of hot water pour into fermenter leave for 24 hours.
Sodiun perc will do the same job.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

Mya said:


> Yep I realise that, which is specifically why I asked if anyone has had any issues in cleaning the product without using hot water...



Apologies, I did not read your post correctly!

As WEAL mentions a good soak with PBW etc. over night will sort it. I use the KegLand version this way. After the soak any bits that do stick will come straight off with a blast from the hose on full tilt


----------



## cb341982

Nullnvoid said:


> It was KL07177 (5 Pack) Camlock Replacement seal from Kegland. Works a treat and they are nice and thick.


Thanks


----------



## KegLand-com-au

TheBeerBaron said:


> Apologies, I did not read your post correctly!
> 
> As WEAL mentions a good soak with PBW etc. over night will sort it. I use the KegLand version this way. After the soak any bits that do stick will come straight off with a blast from the hose on full tilt




I think it's a good idea for us to jump in here. Sodium percarbonate works reasonably well and can be left overnight. If however you are using sodium percarbonate mixed with sodium metasiliate you should limit contact time to 20 minutes.

Any product that contains sodium metasilicate should have 20 min contact time or less. Sodium metasilicate is quite an aggressive chemical on plastics in particular and it can weaken PET and a number of other rubbers and plastics. For this reason even other products such as Five Star PBW or even our own KegLand brand of PBW should have a limit of about 20 minute contact time. Please do not leave in the fermenter for days at a time. This is something that is mentioned in the instruction sheet for the FermZilla however it's often overlooked.

If you are using straight sodium percarbonate it's not an issue but it's also not quite as effective as a cleaner when used in combination with a number of other chemicals at the same time.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

KegLand-com-au said:


> however it's often overlooked



Well I sure have overlooked this fact! so good to know. it's lucky then that I had actually run out of PBW and my FZ has been sitting for a week with just sodium perc so hopefully that hasn't damage the body.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

TheBeerBaron said:


> Well I sure have overlooked this fact! so good to know. it's lucky then that I had actually run out of PBW and my FZ has been sitting for a week with just sodium perc so hopefully that hasn't damage the body.



Yes it's something I think we need to make more effort to educate customers on. The reality is all the effective cleaning happens in the first 10 minutes so really no point to leave longer. Sodium metasilicate is really effective but just don't leave it for longer than you need to.


----------



## pauly

Saersy said:


> Hey all dont know if this has been raised before but i need some help or suggestions. when it comes to dry hopping under pressure I set my spunding at 25psi so its carbed by the time i keg. I shut the butterfly valve and go to release the pressure slowly out of the pet screw lid on the collection jar. Twice the thing has blown off and hops have gone everywhere haha. Litterally a hop explosion. Dont know the best way to release the pressure in the collection jar to then add more hops for dry hopping.


I also did a few brews at 25 PSI, mainly as experiments to see how it would suppress yeast flavours and possible retain more hop flavour from a dry hop at pitch.

I do not know if it was coincidence or not but the collection vessel was packed hard whereas it was not like that when fermenting at 10 PSI. The first time I did not think about it and gently loosened one of the soda caps to relive pressure as I had done previously, left it for half an hour and came back to take it off. It looked like the car scene from pulp fiction soon after that, this was in the bathroom and the wife was not impressed.

The second time I tried using a plastic carb cap to drain the pressure but blocked almost immediately. I then very very carefully loosened the soda cap, in the shower whilst covering it with a towel and wearing safety goggles. Still a massive explosion but at least it was contained!

If I do it again I will do the only sensible thing and purge down to 5 PSI or so before removing the collection container.

If you find a good way to do it please let me know!


----------



## pauly

Vic said:


> Originally posted 3/10/19. “An easy way to dry hop using a Fermzilla and keeping O2 out. If under pressure, release pressure via PRV. Remove gas post, don't worry, air won't enter, liquid will still be giving up CO2. Using a funnel add hops via the opening where the gas post was. Don't worry about releasing pressure, little carbonation will be lost. You can always add some extra CO2 if you wish. If not fermenting under pressure, connect a CO2 line to the liquid post, set regulator to minimum. Turn gas on until bubbles can be seen coming out the dip tube, remove gas post & dry hop. EASY.”



I think this is a good suggestion and I have tried this.

It's a little hard to get some of the hop pellets down the funnel though, and I had to do 150g over three batches due to mild volcanoing. I think if you are fermenting at 25 PSI you need to be prepared for this.

I have actually bought a FZ all rounder and plan to use this method again, I have never harvested the yeast from the FZ so for me I am thinking it's a lot of extra cleaning I can avoid.

I also got some of the new PET t-pieces https://www.kegland.com.au/pco-1881-carbonation-cap-tee-piece.html and am planning to make some hop tea, transfer to PET bottles and enclosed transfer that into the keg as an alternative to dry hopping.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

pauly said:


> I also did a few brews at 25 PSI, mainly as experiments to see how it would suppress yeast flavours and possible retain more hop flavour from a dry hop at pitch.
> 
> I do not know if it was coincidence or not but the collection vessel was packed hard whereas it was not like that when fermenting at 10 PSI. The first time I did not think about it and gently loosened one of the soda caps to relive pressure as I had done previously, left it for half an hour and came back to take it off. It looked like the car scene from pulp fiction soon after that, this was in the bathroom and the wife was not impressed.
> 
> The second time I tried using a plastic carb cap to drain the pressure but blocked almost immediately. I then very very carefully loosened the soda cap, in the shower whilst covering it with a towel and wearing safety goggles. Still a massive explosion but at least it was contained!
> 
> If I do it again I will do the only sensible thing and purge down to 5 PSI or so before removing the collection container.
> 
> If you find a good way to do it please let me know!



If you are trying to suppress ester production and get cleaner fermentation you should aim for about 10-15psi max. If you get up to 25psi this starts to have a negative impact on the fermentation process. It's not simply more pressure is necessarily better. I think we need to do more to educate customers about this. I think a lot of customers are often going higher in pressure than is actually desirable just because they can.

The other thing that will probably help you is if you remove the soda cap really slowly. With hops and other trub you will find this is a fairly thick paste and when you remove the soda cap you will need a few ml of this paste to come out of the cap first so the pressure is reduced before the cap is completely removed. If you do it too fast the cap does blow off.

I should also say that if you turn off the butterfly valve it's important to either remove the whole collection container fairly soon after or at least release the pressure using the PCO threaded caps. If you leave the butterfly valve closed and the collection container in place you can continue to get this separate chamber continuing to ferment and also continue to build up more pressure making the hop explosion effect greater. Really there is no reason to leave it connected once you have turned off the butterfly valve off so it should be removed and dumped.


----------



## Saersy

pauly said:


> I also did a few brews at 25 PSI, mainly as experiments to see how it would suppress yeast flavours and possible retain more hop flavour from a dry hop at pitch.
> 
> I do not know if it was coincidence or not but the collection vessel was packed hard whereas it was not like that when fermenting at 10 PSI. The first time I did not think about it and gently loosened one of the soda caps to relive pressure as I had done previously, left it for half an hour and came back to take it off. It looked like the car scene from pulp fiction soon after that, this was in the bathroom and the wife was not impressed.
> 
> The second time I tried using a plastic carb cap to drain the pressure but blocked almost immediately. I then very very carefully loosened the soda cap, in the shower whilst covering it with a towel and wearing safety goggles. Still a massive explosion but at least it was contained!
> 
> If I do it again I will do the only sensible thing and purge down to 5 PSI or so before removing the collection container.
> 
> If you find a good way to do it please let me know!


Haha yeah happened to me twice too and in my brew shed things are still coated in hops because I'm too lazy to clean it up I dont actually put it under pressure until day 3 so it can produce those ale esters then let it rise itself to 25psi. I think purging down the pressure is the safest option, removing the collection jar, add dry hops, purge with co2, open valve then put 25psi back into the tank. Cheers!


----------



## Saersy

KegLand-com-au said:


> If you are trying to suppress ester production and get cleaner fermentation you should aim for about 10-15psi max. If you get up to 25psi this starts to have a negative impact on the fermentation process. It's not simply more pressure is necessarily better. I think we need to do more to educate customers about this. I think a lot of customers are often going higher in pressure than is actually desirable just because they can.
> 
> The other thing that will probably help you is if you remove the soda cap really slowly. With hops and other trub you will find this is a fairly thick paste and when you remove the soda cap you will need a few ml of this paste to come out of the cap first so the pressure is reduced before the cap is completely removed. If you do it too fast the cap does blow off.
> 
> I should also say that if you turn off the butterfly valve it's important to either remove the whole collection container fairly soon after or at least release the pressure using the PCO threaded caps. If you leave the butterfly valve closed and the collection container in place you can continue to get this separate chamber continuing to ferment and also continue to build up more pressure making the hop explosion effect greater. Really there is no reason to leave it connected once you have turned off the butterfly valve off so it should be removed and dumped.


Ive never had an issue with fermenting at 25psi but I dont put it under pressure until day 3 anyways so by that time most fermentation is done. I also let it gradually get to that pressure by day 10 its carbed, cold and ready for kegging.


----------



## Mya

So bought one of these and have no end of problems. The main bottom cone ring leaked and the collection cup leaked. Managed to get the bottom cone ring sealed after disassembling a few times, collection cup I had 4 different goes at different tightness (including different amounts of keg lube) starting from hand tight (recommended here) and working upwards, the last tightness was so tight I literally couldn't remove it without putting something through the two side ports on the collection cup just to get leverage (like you're not meant to do). Now I'm too scared to remove the collection cup (even if I could) during fermentation incase I can't even get it back on without it leaking with the fermzilla full of beer, kind of defeats the whole purpose. Doesn't help of course that the fermzilla is so light, soft and round that you can't get leverage on ANYTHING when trying to use the undoing tool.

Now after my ferment I can't remove the lid, the rubber on the undoing tool keeps slipping doesn't matter how tight I hold the rubber. Between the bottom cone and collection cup I probably spent over an hour trying to undo them now another half hour on the lid, I'm running out of patience.

Any tips on removing the lid? I only did it up a little harder than hand tight. It doesn't have pressure and it had keg lube on.

I also suspect despite everything, there is still a slow leak somewhere because the spunding valve decayed from 15 to 0 psi once fermentation was over.


----------



## Schikitar

I recently switched the carb caps over from the SS ones to the plastic ones, dunno why, just did. Anyway, one of the plastic ones leaks unless I get a pair of pliers out and tighten it right down, never had a problem with the SS ones so I'll swap them back for the next brew. I was under the impression the plastic ones would seal better!?



Mya said:


> starting from hand tight (recommended here)


It needs to be hand tight and then a nudge on mine, others have luck backing it off just under hand tight but if you go to ridiculous tightness then expect to have to replace the seal as it's likely compromised now.. as for your lid, try the tool again but perhaps try a pipe over the handle for more leverage. Maybe pump some CO2 in their to keep the body tight for better grip, grab a second pair of hands, don't forget if you loosen the lid release the pressure before undoing all the way.. PS. This could all be bad advice!


----------



## dkril

Mya said:


> Doesn't help of course that the fermzilla is so light, soft and round that you can't get leverage on ANYTHING when trying to use the undoing tool.
> 
> Now after my ferment I can't remove the lid, the rubber on the undoing tool keeps slipping doesn't matter how tight I hold the rubber. Between the bottom cone and collection cup I probably spent over an hour trying to undo them now another half hour on the lid, I'm running out of patience.
> 
> Any tips on removing the lid? I only did it up a little harder than hand tight. It doesn't have pressure and it had keg lube on.
> 
> I also suspect despite everything, there is still a slow leak somewhere because the spunding valve decayed from 15 to 0 psi once fermentation was over.


Whack a few PSI in in, and give it a big hug . Seirously, arms and legs around it to give you maximum grip on the body. Obviously you'll need a second pair of hands to operate whatever tool you can get to undo the lid. Maybe an old style strap wrench. I'd advise against a chain wrench, as I suspect that would probably damage the plastic.


----------



## Grok

My first brew with the Fermzilla I used the plastic carb caps and they leaked, no good at all. I changed to the SS using Grolsch bottle top red rubber seals and never had a problem since.
I agree with you about the collection bottle being very difficult to remove, the only way I can do it is to use the butterfly valve handle in off position as a purchase against the unscrewing force, not real friendly at all and a weak point IMO. Maybe the thread needs to be redesigned so it doesn't bind so much, and a decent F#@%&ing spanner for it would be a big help!


----------



## Nullnvoid

Schikitar said:


> I recently switched the carb caps over from the SS ones to the plastic ones, dunno why, just did. Anyway, one of the plastic ones leaks unless I get a pair of pliers out and tighten it right down, never had a problem with the SS ones so I'll swap them back for the next brew. I was under the impression the plastic ones would seal better!?
> 
> 
> I bought the red ones when they came out because they were meant to be the best thing since sliced bread. But had the exact same problems as you. Couldn't get the fuckers to seal unless I overtightened, stripped the thread on the plastic and even then they wouldn't seal.
> 
> So bought Camlock washers for my stainless steel ones (they were dodgy too(not from Kegland) and the washers were too small) and now it's right as rain.
> 
> The red ones I'll slowly give to people on bottles I think.


----------



## Mya

Schikitar said:


> as for your lid, try the tool again but perhaps try a pipe over the handle for more leverage. Maybe pump some CO2 in their to keep the body tight for better grip, grab a second pair of hands, don't forget if you loosen the lid release the pressure before undoing all the way.. PS. This could all be bad advice!



I spent 30 minutes with the tool on the lid, it's not a matter of grip on the body or using a cheater bar or anything, the rubber in the tool just slips on the lid because the grooves on the lid are so small that It can't even get grip.

I'm able to get grip on the body, the tool just doesn't work.

Getting grip on the body to undo the collection bottle on the other hand is impossible without using the valve, even then I would NOT use the valve for leverage when it actually has beer in because it's pretty easy to nudge the butterfly valve out of the closed position and all it would take is cracked butterfly + removed collection bottle = BIG MESS.


----------



## Schikitar

Mya said:


> it's not a matter of grip on the body or using a cheater bar or anything, the rubber in the tool just slips on the lid because the grooves on the lid are so small that It can't even get grip.


Dunno what to say, I mean I have found the tool can slip a little if things are REALLY tight but generally speaking I've not had any problems with it.. pull the rubber taught enough and pinch it along with the handle so it can't move and with the right amount of torque it should loosen. Did you have any lube on the threads, that also obviously helps.. plus, eat your Weetbix in the morning!


----------



## Vic

U


Grok said:


> My first brew with the Fermzilla I used the plastic carb caps and they leaked, no good at all. I changed to the SS using Grolsch bottle top red rubber seals and never had a problem since.
> I agree with you about the collection bottle being very difficult to remove, the only way I can do it is to use the butterfly valve handle in off position as a purchase against the unscrewing force, not real friendly at all and a weak point IMO. Maybe the thread needs to be redesigned so it doesn't bind so much, and a decent F#@%&ing spanner for it would be a big help!


 Use a Filter Spanner on the collection bottle. For the top use the supplied tool but give it a solid whack with a rubber mallet.


----------



## awfulknauful

I wonder how many times this has to happen, very similar to the Scandinavian guy on you tube who's FermZilla blew at 10 PSI.


----------



## awfulknauful

Picture from above post. From Homebrewtalk


----------



## Trippinonprozac

I’m pretty close to closing the deal on one of these but the amount of conflicting real works issues and praise I’m still not sure. Is dumping the yeast and oxygen free dry hopping worth the extra hassles that come with the butterfly valve, and extra cleaning. Or KISS and to the all rounder ?


----------



## Schikitar

I think if I had my time again, I'd buy two all rounders and KISS. I rarely remove the bottom jar on my FZ just because I'm worried I won't get it sealed back up nicely again mid-fermentation or whatever. When dry-hopping through there it would always dump trub on top and I'd end up having to shake the whole vessel to get the hops into suspension which is awkward (that was when I was doing BIAB, less of a problem with the BZ). I now just dry hop through the top quickly. It's also easy enough to harvest yeast cleanly with or without the jar but I prefer to overbuild my starters and split those off rather than harvesting post-ferment. I do like to be able to pressure ferment and pressure transfer relatively O2 free though, so I wouldn't give that up. That's just my $0.02.


----------



## Grmblz

First off is pressure or not, you've chosen pressure (zilla or rounder) cool so now all that's left is yeast/trub removal, ideally you wont have much trub in your wort (should be back in the kettle) or non if you're using extracts or FWK's but you can always rack under pressure to another vessel, dry hop is easy using magnets and probably better than using the zilla's bottle from an oxy perspective, so what's left? Yeast! Collecting removing etc. Not all the yeast settles into the bottle of the zilla there is a lot sitting on the cone sides, so separation of settled yeast and beer requires racking, we're left with collection, and yep the zilla does a great job of that, you can of course swirl the rounder after it's been emptied but it's messier and not as sanitary. The zilla is 27L the rounder 30L, my preference would be 35L but I make a lot of high gravity stuff, both require the purchase of the pressure kit. One last point is sexy, the zilla is and the rounder isn't, but at $140 and $70 respectively is one super model better than two plain Janes? If I could trade my zilla for two rounders I would, but then I've never been much on super models, way too temperamental, and high maintenance, bit like the zilla really  My 2 bobs worth.


----------



## BrewsWayne

I have 2) 27L fully fitted FermZillas in constant use. I have recently picked up a 55L that will be plumbed into the glycol system shortly.

The thing I like the most about the FermZilla is the collection chamber. I have plastic carb caps on all the pressure fittings. I do not get much trub into the fermenters. I use a 65L BrewZilla and the filter plates do their job very well.

I do have full temperature control on the fermenters and that helps with yeast dumps and dry hop removal.

I use an iSpindel to monitor temperatures and gravity. After gravity is stable, I drop the temp to 10C to remove yeast. I close the butterfly valve and reduce the pressure in the collection chamber by using a short cobra tap. I use two of the tools to remove the collection chamber. One on the butterfly valve assembly and one on the chamber. I make sure to have a bowl under the whole assembly to catch any overflow from the chamber when taken apart.

The chamber is easy to clean and sanitize.

When dry hopping, I put in the hops, put the chamber back on the FermZilla and tighten to just beyond finger tight. I injct CO2 in the chamber and then purge it 10 times. At that point I open the butterfly valve with CO2 still connected. I open the pressure relief valve on top of the FermZilla, briefly, and the hops get thoroughly mixed.

When dry hopping is finished, roughly two days, I drop the temp to 4C for 24 hours. I then repeat the above procedure. I finally add 8 ml of BioFine Clear and purge as above.

This results in rather clear beer that is then transferred into corney kegs with CO2.

Cheers,
Wayne


----------



## Joshed1

I have both the zilla and rounder and while I was so happy with the idea of the zilla and its usefulness, I just don't use it enough to warrant it. With the extra parts I'm not crazy on having to clean it all out (the rubber seal looks like its got some yeast in there which I will need to take it all apart and clean it down. There's also more places for it to leak (even though if done up correctly it shouldn't (ie plastic caps on collection jar).

2x rounders would be better value imo. The one thing the zilla has been useful for is yeast collecting though. Buy extra collection jars, unscrew and cap after brew and throw it in the fridge. To be fair though if you just tipped out the yeast after a brew into a jar it would do the same thing.


----------



## Mikeyr

More than happy with mine, wouldn't get 2 all rounders in my fermentation fridge so easy decision. 

I like Gashes trick of closing the valve and leaving the yeast slurry in, cleaning the top, reloading and letting it lose! Yeah i know all about over pitching and don't need any coaching. Brilliant so far for similar and increasingly "bigger" brews. In fact did a RIS with a scoop of yeast out of the top of the collection jar and went like a train. As good as any starter.

Cleaning doesn't seem that hard, can get the hose nozzle in to "jet out" the yeast that i agree seems to creep into that seal. Version 3 might be on the cards to sort that, my only real complaint. 

Touch wood and wishing i didn't say this but 15+ brews in, not had any "poor cleaning" issues with the output.


----------



## Teebs

Grmblz said:


> First off is pressure or not, you've chosen pressure (zilla or rounder) cool so now all that's left is yeast/trub removal, ideally you wont have much trub in your wort (should be back in the kettle) or non if you're using extracts or FWK's but you can always rack under pressure to another vessel, dry hop is easy using magnets and probably better than using the zilla's bottle from an oxy perspective, so what's left? Yeast! Collecting removing etc. Not all the yeast settles into the bottle of the zilla there is a lot sitting on the cone sides, so separation of settled yeast and beer requires racking, we're left with collection, and yep the zilla does a great job of that, you can of course swirl the rounder after it's been emptied but it's messier and not as sanitary. The zilla is 27L the rounder 30L, my preference would be 35L but I make a lot of high gravity stuff, both require the purchase of the pressure kit. One last point is sexy, the zilla is and the rounder isn't, but at $140 and $70 respectively is one super model better than two plain Janes? If I could trade my zilla for two rounders I would, but then I've never been much on super models, way too temperamental, and high maintenance, bit like the zilla really  My 2 bobs worth.


Also, I’m pretty sure I could fit two all rounders in my fermentation fridge. No chance with the Fermzilla


----------



## pauly

I have both the all rounder and the FZ. I bought the AR for doing kit cider for the missus, however I have also used it with some pale ales since.

The AR is very very easy to clean, less things can go wrong, it fits in my fridge easier to cold crash. The FZ takes me the evening to clean if I am disassembling and soaking it, whereas the AR will be done in 30 mins with maybe 10 mins actual attention to it and the rest soaking.

I thought I would re-pitch the yeast from the FZ but in practice I never have and I am not sure it's worth the time for me, for a few dollars. Reinserting the collection jar in the FZ to dry hop is a pain, also if you have just cleaned it and sanatised it then the hops stick to the inside. Really it's only a few minutes of messing, but I really can do without it.

Realistically if I am feeling lazy I can get a brew on with a FWK in the AR in about 10 minutes, 5 mins for a dry hop through the top, 20 mins to do the pressure transfer to a keg, then 30 mins cleanup. It can make a nice keg of beer with an hour of effort. If I am really pressed for time then I will dump the hops in at pitch and re-use the existing keg without cleaning it!

I am currently doing a hazy pale with a double dry hop. I have always dumped after the first dry hop as I was not comfortable keeping the hops in there for so long, however I am trying it in the AR this time. If it does not taste like a mown lawn then I probably will put the FZ in the attic and only use the AR.

I think if you are a perfectionist then the FZ gives you a lot more options, if you are pragmatic or lazy then the AR is great


----------



## Grmblz

@pauly don't forget the magnet method for your dry hopping, it's great for dropping the hops after high krausen but can also be used to pull the hops up out of the beer.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Funny how times have changed, when I posted up about the snubnose and the outcry from Keg Land and other forumites in March 2019 how it can't work, what a bad idea. It is now an accepted method. Yes so easy to use, so easy to dry hop so easy to clean, nothing to do with laziness just a matter of cutting out unnecessary work. And you can still be a perfectionist.
Keep the trub out using a KK helix, all that goes into the fermenter is clear wort, obviously it will have cold break which will only materialise at about 4 C .





Clear beer into fermenter, clear beer in to the glass, no finings needed.


----------



## S.E

wide eyed and legless said:


> Funny how times have changed, when I posted up about the snubnose and the outcry from Keg Land and other forumites in March 2019 how it can't work, what a bad idea. It is now an accepted method.


Hi WEAL, yes how times have changed indeed. Not so many years ago we were all perfectly happy fermenting in buckets, simple HDPE fermenters and cubes or SS kegs if we wanted to go a bit upmarket.

These days it seems almost compulsory to be fermenting in PET and under pressure for some reason. 

I often re pitch yeast directly from one brew to the next so I really liked the idea of the PET conical when they came out and had thought of getting a couple but as they were only about 30L I would have also needed a second fermenting fridge as I never brew less than 50L.

By the time the larger ones were available people were reporting problems with the dump valves etc so it hardly seemed worthwhile as the fermenters I have been using for over 10 years are still going strong with no issues.

The only criticisms I recall with the snub nose was it incorporated a cone without a dump valve so the cone was completely redundant and just made the fermenter an unnecessarily awkward shape to fit in a fridge.

The updated designs with the round and flat bottoms look a much better idea. However I don’t really see much if any advantage to them over fermenting in cubes or kegs.

What am I missing here WEAL apart from lack of a dump valve on a conical fermenter what was supposed to be the bad idea with them?

And what is this new accepted method you speak of that these now offer.

Cheers Sean


----------



## wide eyed and legless

S.E said:


> Hi WEAL, yes how times have changed indeed. Not so many years ago we were all perfectly happy fermenting in buckets, simple HDPE fermenters and cubes or SS kegs if we wanted to go a bit upmarket.
> 
> These days it seems almost compulsory to be fermenting in PET and under pressure for some reason.
> 
> I often re pitch yeast directly from one brew to the next so I really liked the idea of the PET conical when they came out and had thought of getting a couple but as they were only about 30L I would have also needed a second fermenting fridge as I never brew less than 50L.
> 
> By the time the larger ones were available people were reporting problems with the dump valves etc so it hardly seemed worthwhile as the fermenters I have been using for over 10 years are still going strong with no issues.
> 
> The only criticisms I recall with the snub nose was it incorporated a cone without a dump valve so the cone was completely redundant and just made the fermenter an unnecessarily awkward shape to fit in a fridge.
> 
> The updated designs with the round and flat bottoms look a much better idea. However I don’t really see much if any advantage to them over fermenting in cubes or kegs.
> 
> What am I missing here WEAL apart from lack of a dump valve on a conical fermenter what was supposed to be the bad idea with them?
> 
> And what is this new accepted method you speak of that these now offer.
> 
> Cheers Sean


Hi Sean, I put taps on my Snub nose, the cheap taps I put on also has another fitting as an extra, which in effect is similar to a racking arm. So while I am fermenting in one snub nose, I am purging the second Snubnose with venting CO2 which my dry hops are sitting in waiting for the transfer to the secondary.


I can transfer tap to tap without any extra gas needed, round and flat bottoms that can't be done, it has to be a pressure transfer. 
I can, and have done exactly the same in cubes, you are right it can be done, not every one can fit barbed fittings in the top of the cube though. As you may well remember even that caused controversy when you first mentioned fermenting in cubes some years ago 


For an off the shelf item for me the Snubby works well as seen in the posts above others are finding the round and flat bottom fermenters are working for them, so with all that has been sold, flat bottom and cone that is what I am meaning by it is now an accepted method since the hoo ha when I first posted the Snubby in March 2019.


----------



## Grmblz

The elephant in the room is top opening size and distance to bottom, snub v all rounder, having said that you do have a point.


----------



## Hangover68

With the various all in one fermenter/kegs available, if you are serving from them is there is a time limit ? IE if i am the only beer drinker will it spoil before i finished it ? - this is applicable to kegs as well.


----------



## S.E

wide eyed and legless said:


> Hi Sean, I put taps on my Snub nose, the cheap taps I put on also has another fitting as an extra, which in effect is similar to a racking arm. So while I am fermenting in one snub nose, I am purging the second Snubnose with venting CO2 which my dry hops are sitting in waiting for the transfer to the secondary.
> View attachment 118037
> 
> I can transfer tap to tap without any extra gas needed, round and flat bottoms that can't be done, it has to be a pressure transfer.
> I can, and have done exactly the same in cubes, you are right it can be done, not every one can fit barbed fittings in the top of the cube though. As you may well remember even that caused controversy when you first mentioned fermenting in cubes some years ago
> View attachment 118038
> 
> For an off the shelf item for me the Snubby works well as seen in the posts above others are finding the round and flat bottom fermenters are working for them, so with all that has been sold, flat bottom and cone that is what I am meaning by it is now an accepted method since the hoo ha when I first posted the Snubby in March 2019.


I see what you’re saying but don’t understand why you couldn’t fit taps for tap to tap transfer in the round or flat bottom?

As you say we were doing closed loop gravity transfers in cubes years ago, surely if someone could drill a hole and fit a tap to a snub nose they would be able fit a barb to a cube cap? Actually all as I ever did was drill a hole in the cube cap and fit an airlock grommet to plug the gas tube in to using 10mm tube with the bottom piece of an old airlock cut off and pushed in to it. 

I didn’t cause controversy with fermenting in cubes that was pretty common the controversy was using cubes as casks as it was suggested they would somehow explode.

To be fair it was only a couple members that made ridiculous comments and got abusive with me over cube casks.

I was told by mods at the time that though not always appreciated it was sometimes overlooked when some long established members caused mayhem and chaos and even made personal attacks as it created extra interest and entertainment for some folk.

I suspect that is why the KK KL war is allowed to play out on here as it creates interest and long threads in a controlled manner when folk get bored with discussing brewing.

Have you noticed that apart from those threads how smoothly the forum runs these days? Little or no personal attacks and relatively new members can post an opinion without being abused.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

The bottom part of the cone on the Snubby is a lot thicker to allow a tap to be fitted, I am not sure the flat bottom or all rounder can accommodate that. 
That's right it was in one of the beer engine threads the pandemonium broke out, even worse when you consider how little pressure there is in a cask. Wasn't one of the antagonist a mod at the time?
True about it being a smoother running forum, can never see any point in personal attacks on any forum, not like you can go into the car park and sort it out.


----------



## CKK

wide eyed and legless said:


> The bottom part of the cone on the Snubby is a lot thicker to allow a tap to be fitted, I am not sure the flat bottom or all rounder can accommodate that.
> That's right it was in one of the beer engine threads the pandemonium broke out, even worse when you consider how little pressure there is in a cask. Wasn't one of the antagonist a mod at the time?
> True about it being a smoother running forum, can never see any point in personal attacks on any forum, not like you can go into the car park and sort it out.


Keg King was not allowed to come on to this site for nearly two years through no fault of its own. It had to rely on others to stick up for it whilst it had buckets tipped over it. Thankfully we are now able to be here and be part of the brewing community and help out with answers about our kit. You can drill into the snubby but be mindful that it voids the pressure rating and we don't recommend it. Better to get the gen 3 and attach what you need to the adaptor on the bottom of the plunger valve. Comes with a barbed spigot too.


----------



## Trippinonprozac

Sounds like the AR is the way to go for me. I don’t think the issue that come with the extra features in the zilla is worth it yet.

Apologies in advance. When dry hopping using the magnet method, are you guys dropping in primary, leaving your hops exposed to ferm temps? If hopping in secondary do you cold crash before or after transfer?

I’m thinking ferment, crash, transfer dry hop. Transfer to Keg and fine. ??

HELP!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Trippinonprozac said:


> Sounds like the AR is the way to go for me. I don’t think the issue that come with the extra features in the zilla is worth it yet.
> 
> Apologies in advance. When dry hopping using the magnet method, are you guys dropping in primary, leaving your hops exposed to ferm temps? If hopping in secondary do you cold crash before or after transfer?
> 
> I’m thinking ferment, crash, transfer dry hop. Transfer to Keg and fine. ??
> 
> HELP!


Transfer to secondary when there are a couple of points left to go, either use magnets or have the hops in secondary ready and waiting. Cold crash when finished, if you are going to use finings, fine when its cold, 2 to 3 days at -1 to 2 C when everything has dropped out transfer to keg.
Two things to remember, shrinkage. Finings can strip flavour and colour.


----------



## Edward Rowe

CEO Keg King said:


> Keg King was not allowed to come on to this site for nearly two years through no fault of its own. It had to rely on others to stick up for it whilst it had buckets tipped over it. Thankfully we are now able to be here and be part of the brewing community and help out with answers about our kit. You can drill into the snubby but be mindful that it voids the pressure rating and we don't recommend it. Better to get the gen 3 and attach what you need to the adaptor on the bottom of the plunger valve. Comes with a barbed spigot too.



This is a thread for the Fermzilla. Which is a Kegland thread. Much like Kegland shouldn't be in your threads, stay out of ones relating to their products with your bullshit.

OR, if you do, farking start a new account and ohh I don't know, call your self Will or Maggie, or whoever are and join the rest of us away from your work account and then use your work account for work purposes so you don't seem like a childish brat.

And before you get all antsy pantsy, this should also apply to Kegland. If admin had any hopes and desires for this forum then they would make you segregate your personal rambling attacks from your business accounts to your personal accounts.


----------



## awfulknauful

Edward Rowe said:


> This is a thread for the Fermzilla. Which is a Kegland thread. Much like Kegland shouldn't be in your threads, stay out of ones relating to their products with your bullshit.
> 
> OR, if you do, farking start a new account and ohh I don't know, call your self Will or Maggie, or whoever are and join the rest of us away from your work account and then use your work account for work purposes so you don't seem like a childish brat.
> 
> And before you get all antsy pantsy, this should also apply to Kegland. If admin had any hopes and desires for this forum then they would make you segregate your personal rambling attacks from your business accounts to your personal accounts.


Sorry sport this isn't a Keg Land thread so anyone can post, looks to me like he was answering a post about the void pressure rating of the snub nose fermenter when a tap is fitted.
Check out face book accounts around the world if you want info on the FermZilla, should be withdrawn from sale. Glad I am not using mine as a pressure fermenting vessel.
The first 2 pics a shard of the collection bottle struck the user in the throat drawing blood lucky it wasn't an eye.





Loads more on the internet.


----------



## Edward Rowe

I stand by my comments.

Also the title of the thread is Fermzilla, so it kind of is a Kegland thread. It's not "Pressure Fermenting Vessels"

And I got one of the first Fermzilla, pressure fermented, normal fermented, and it's been fine. You only hear about the things that go wrong, which make it seem like they are all going pear shaped.


----------



## awfulknauful

Edward Rowe said:


> I stand by my comments.
> 
> Also the title of the thread is Fermzilla, so it kind of is a Kegland thread. It's not "Pressure Fermenting Vessels"
> 
> And I got one of the first Fermzilla, pressure fermented, normal fermented, and it's been fine. You only hear about the things that go wrong, which make it seem like they are all going pear shaped.


I got one of the first ones too big dent and stress fractures, just because it says Fermzilla doesn't mean only those with Fermzilla can reply. Its not only those that can't take pressure there are loads of folk who can't get the Fermzilla to hold pressure.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

awfulknauful said:


> I got one of the first ones too big dent and stress fractures, just because it says Fermzilla doesn't mean only those with Fermzilla can reply. Its not only those that can't take pressure there are loads of folk who can't get the Fermzilla to hold pressure.



I seem to remember you bought yours second hand ? So you can't blame the dent on KL. Every chance it was dented by the previous owner. And if you did buy it new, and it arrived dented, there's every chance they would have sent out a replacement.

All these explosions, I would have to guess are user error. They're pressure rated sure, but not infinite pressure. So if you've blocked the PRV or shut the dump valve while active fermentation is going on, they'll likely pop. There must be thousands upon thousands of FermZilla in the wild and most people love them with no major issues. 

Personally, I am waiting for feedback on the Fermenter King aka the second coming of Christ in PET fermenter form. I know KK loaded up Dr Hans with a bunch of free gear but after the first look he posted 5 months ago there has been crickets. No one else seems to have any video reviews out either. So either there's problems or he's too happy brewing with the FermZilla's he's bought/received.


----------



## awfulknauful

TheBeerBaron said:


> I seem to remember you bought yours second hand ? So you can't blame the dent on KL. Every chance it was dented by the previous owner. And if you did buy it new, and it arrived dented, there's every chance they would have sent out a replacement.
> 
> All these explosions, I would have to guess are user error. They're pressure rated sure, but not infinite pressure. So if you've blocked the PRV or shut the dump valve while active fermentation is going on, they'll likely pop. There must be thousands upon thousands of FermZilla in the wild and most people love them with no major issues.
> 
> Personally, I am waiting for feedback on the Fermenter King aka the second coming of Christ in PET fermenter form. I know KK loaded up Dr Hans with a bunch of free gear but after the first look he posted 5 months ago there has been crickets. No one else seems to have any video reviews out either. So either there's problems or he's too happy brewing with the FermZilla's he's bought/received.


You remember wrong, unused, and still in the box so not second hand. Guessing whether it is user error doesn't come into it, there is a Swedish video which the body blew apart at 10 PSI.
I would say KK did give out free gear for review as did KL, theirs didn't come out with flying colours either, they had to send him a second one. I have the original Fermentasaurus and the Fermenter King, best safety feature on the FK is it will just blow back into the main body if there is any user error.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

awfulknauful said:


> unused, and still in the box so not second hand



And you bought it from KegLand direct? Even un-used, it's still second hand in that case. KL or any supplier wouldn't warrant a dent in that scenario. 

They both gave him free gear but I seems most of the reviews have come and gone as you say, the Fermzilla, All rounder he's done snub nose, and the King Jr but the full sized Fermenter King is MIA from any feedback. It seems odd to me. 

I'm not saying the Fermenter King is a bad product, but just looking at it, keeping the top opening the same size and keeping the little bottle and little opening down the bottom the only real 'upgrade' is the plunger valve. So if you already owned a FermZilla or even an Fermentasaurus I can't see why you would buy a Fermenter King. And due to a lack of user reviews, especially on YouTube which is where a lot of my research for buying new gear is done I probably wouldn't buy one if upgrading from a traditional fermenter 

Like I said, I am keen to see any user review vids but especially from the Dr because he's had it for months


----------



## awfulknauful

TheBeerBaron said:


> And you bought it from KegLand direct? Even un-used, it's still second hand in that case. KL or any supplier wouldn't warrant a dent in that scenario.
> 
> They both gave him free gear but I seems most of the reviews have come and gone as you say, the Fermzilla, All rounder he's done snub nose, and the King Jr but the full sized Fermenter King is MIA from any feedback. It seems odd to me.
> 
> I'm not saying the Fermenter King is a bad product, but just looking at it, keeping the top opening the same size and keeping the little bottle and little opening down the bottom the only real 'upgrade' is the plunger valve. So if you already owned a FermZilla or even an Fermentasaurus I can't see why you would buy a Fermenter King. And due to a lack of user reviews, especially on YouTube which is where a lot of my research for buying new gear is done I probably wouldn't buy one if upgrading from a traditional fermenter
> 
> Like I said, I am keen to see any user review vids but especially from the Dr because he's had it for months


Been quite a few sold, the bottle at the bottom I doubt many people are using that. I have the elbow to dump out of into a bucket, another good feature of the FK, plus no big butterfly valve to clean. I wouldn't be surprised if KL use that on the Fermzilla 2


----------



## Edward Rowe

awfulknauful said:


> I got one of the first ones too big dent and stress fractures, just because it says Fermzilla doesn't mean only those with Fermzilla can reply. Its not only those that can't take pressure there are loads of folk who can't get the Fermzilla to hold pressure.



Cool story bro!


----------



## awfulknauful

Edward Rowe said:


> True story bro!


Fixed that for ya.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

awfulknauful said:


> Fixed that for ya.


Ignore him mate, he's a troll look at all his posts not one useful one amongst them.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

awfulknauful said:


> Been quite a few sold, the bottle at the bottom I doubt many people are using that. I have the elbow to dump out of into a bucket, another good feature of the FK, plus no big butterfly valve to clean. I wouldn't be surprised if KL use that on the Fermzilla 2



Quite a few sold yet essentially zero video reviews? Considering the Home brew community is pretty active on YouTube I would think good, bad or ugly there should be at least some out there? maybe you need to make one!? gap in the market.

If you're only using it to dump yeast through an elbow do you use the plunger? or have a valve on the end of the elbow? I would think the plunger is not ideal for this use which then makes it's inclusion entirely superfluous. 

The butterfly valve is no more cleaning than the plunger? so that is a moot point. Also both butterfly valve & plunger seem fairly simple to clean so I doubt that's really a negative. 

Also @awfulknauful just to confirm, you did buy your FermZilla un-used but second hand?


----------



## Meddo

If anyone's interested in one person's view...

I've got both a 27L Fermzilla and a G3 Fermenter King. Both have pros and cons for my usage, which is not the same as EVERYONE's usage.

Fermzilla:

Large opening at the top means it's easy to get into for manual cleaning if that's your thing (it's not my thing, but I haven't finished rebuilding my CIP rig during a brewery upgrade so it's handy right now).
The cone seal gets sediment between it and the vessel body, so CIP is not going to be effective regardless.
Smaller - pro or con depending on usage. I'm taking a lot of samples (pint sized samples at times...) through the fermentation and conditioning process and 27L is a bit limiting for me, but it is smaller and easier to maneuver.
Carb caps on the lid, don't like them, pain in the arse to clean and not interchangeable with anything. Would rather more standard fittings (cornelius keg posts).
Larger opening means a larger glycol coil is an option relative to FK. I haven't used this yet because I buggered up the lid trying to install the temp probe and haven't bothered trying again in a new one - put it in the fridge instead. But larger coil means more even distribution of coolant throughout the body of the fermenter.
I really, really don't rate the butterfly valve at the bottom for MY usage pattern. I prefer a more traditional continuous dumping of trub / yeast which can't be achieved with a butterfly valve on such a small vessel. It works well enough with the collection bottle for taking the initial 1L of crud out early in the ferment but I have no desire to reattach the collection bottle once it's been removed the first time during fermentation. If Kegland ever make a tri-clamp adapter for the base then this problem disappears.
Surprisingly the shallower cone doesn't seem to hang up as much sediment as I thought it would. Thought it was marketing fluff but maybe not.
The rigid collection bottle is a real risk. Yes, if it blows it's overwhelmingly likely due to user error, but that doesn't make it right. Heirachy of controls says procedure is the least effective (aside from PPE). It should either be changed to a shatterproof material or include some means of pressure relief like a burst disk.
G3 FK:

Larger 35L vessel suits my needs better than the FZ, since my batch sizes are 20L (not 19L) and as I said I take quite a few samples and also tend to drink carbonated beer from the vessel for a little while before kegging. YMMV.
Much more suited to CIP with the 1/2" BSP through-fitting in the lid.
Smaller lid opening means that it's harder to get inside to manually clean, and there's less room on the lid to mount fittings. The cornelius-type posts are great in that I can convert them to 5/8" with adapters (everything except FVs in my brewery is commercial type fittings) but if I do that I can't fully unscrew the lid collar to remove it for adding drauflassen wort. I've asked a mate to turn down a pair of those adapters to hopefully get clearance for the collar so fingers crossed, but for the time being I need to keep using the ball lock posts unfortunately.
Tri clamp adapter on the cone. Perfect for me (although would prefer 1.5" rather than 2" for homebrewing scale), tri clamp reducer, elbow, valve, great. Except the adapter is really easy to knock off the cone piece. KK has sent me a replacement adapter which they think will work better, so again fingers crossed when I receive it that it holds better. But having this adapter is the big win item for my usage.
The cooling coil is too small for cold conditioning, at least in Brisbane ambient conditions. In February I couldn't get my lager below 6 degrees before turning it into an eishelles with big chunks of ice on the coil. This is in the insulated jacket and trialing various coolant temps between -11 to -1. There's probably not much that can be done about this as the size of the coil is restricted by the size of the top opening. As an alternative I'm currently trialing a cooling wrap around the outside, which I've got high hopes for (but $$$).
I slightly prefer the fully enclosed jacket to the FZ's bottomless one.
I'm not at all a fan of the plunge valve (if I had to choose I'd probably just take this over the large FZ butterfly, but I prefer not to use either), but given I'm using a tri clamp valve off the base the plunge valve is unnecessary so I just removed it and capped the bulkhead fitting in the lid for my current brew. Not sure that tethering the dip-tube float to the plunge valve really adds much, ambivalent here but probably a larger tether ring for a bit more freedom might work better, it seemed to hang up a bit when I used it.
At the moment I'm more likely to buy another G3 than FZ, but that depends on how successful the replacement tri clamp adapter is and also my trial of the cooling wrap (not a KK product). I'm picking up some valveless fermenters to simplify my brewing process (in terms of time spent on cleaning and sanitisation) for ales after a long period doing lagered beers, I've gone for the all rounder over snub nose purely for the larger opening making them easier to clean by hand. If the larger opening of the 60L FK / snub nose made it into the smaller vessels then I'd have likely gone down that path but it doesn't sound like that can be done unfortunately.

Happy to take any questions. Not affiliated with KK or KL, don't know either of them personally, I'm in Brisbane and don't give a fvck about the politics.


----------



## awfulknauful

The butterfly valve does need stripping and cleaning, I wouldn't say every use but every 3 or 4 I clean mine on the Fermentasaurus that often that means taking it apart. Not hard to clean either vessel soak overnight with some sodium perc then rinse.
Yes I got mine off a forum member who bought two but wanted one of each, box had never been opened.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

awfulknauful said:


> The butterfly valve does need stripping and cleaning, I wouldn't say every use but every 3 or 4 I clean mine on the Fermentasaurus that often that means taking it apart. Not hard to clean either vessel soak overnight with some sodium perc then rinse.
> Yes I got mine off a forum member who bought two but wanted one of each, box had never been opened.



The plunger itself still has an o-ring in it which could harbour crud in the groove? so you need to pick that out and clean behind each time? also, the bottom housing would need to be dismantled occasionally for cleaning on the G3 as well. So we're splitting hairs here really on which is worse / better.

@Meddo 's reply is nicely detailed and goes to show neither are perfect for everyone. As I said, I already have a FZ so the features of the G3 aren't worth changing for. I know when I was starting out which was not too long ago, the FZ was yet to be released so I held off buying a Fermentasaurus because the FZ had genuine upgrades. I still like being able to purge my dry hops via the bottom container however so I think I would probably still go FZ if I was in the market with fresh eyes again now. And to my previous point, if I went out researching, I would have bugger all to look at of the G3 to sway me it's direction.

I think the assertion that the FZ is somehow prone to exploding or somehow not as 'safe' as the G3 is definitely a stretch of the imagination though. There's so many variables in play when that happens.

@awfulknauful I don't think it is fair to call out KL for your FZ being dented, there's no way to guarantee the member you bought it off didn't accidentally do it. Or the original courier.


----------



## CKK

Meddo said:


> If anyone's interested in one person's view...
> 
> I've got both a 27L Fermzilla and a G3 Fermenter King. Both have pros and cons for my usage, which is not the same as EVERYONE's usage.
> 
> Fermzilla:
> 
> Large opening at the top means it's easy to get into for manual cleaning if that's your thing (it's not my thing, but I haven't finished rebuilding my CIP rig during a brewery upgrade so it's handy right now).
> The cone seal gets sediment between it and the vessel body, so CIP is not going to be effective regardless.
> Smaller - pro or con depending on usage. I'm taking a lot of samples (pint sized samples at times...) through the fermentation and conditioning process and 27L is a bit limiting for me, but it is smaller and easier to maneuver.
> Carb caps on the lid, don't like them, pain in the arse to clean and not interchangeable with anything. Would rather more standard fittings (cornelius keg posts).
> Larger opening means a larger glycol coil is an option relative to FK. I haven't used this yet because I buggered up the lid trying to install the temp probe and haven't bothered trying again in a new one - put it in the fridge instead. But larger coil means more even distribution of coolant throughout the body of the fermenter.
> I really, really don't rate the butterfly valve at the bottom for MY usage pattern. I prefer a more traditional continuous dumping of trub / yeast which can't be achieved with a butterfly valve on such a small vessel. It works well enough with the collection bottle for taking the initial 1L of crud out early in the ferment but I have no desire to reattach the collection bottle once it's been removed the first time during fermentation. If Kegland ever make a tri-clamp adapter for the base then this problem disappears.
> Surprisingly the shallower cone doesn't seem to hang up as much sediment as I thought it would. Thought it was marketing fluff but maybe not.
> The rigid collection bottle is a real risk. Yes, if it blows it's overwhelmingly likely due to user error, but that doesn't make it right. Heirachy of controls says procedure is the least effective (aside from PPE). It should either be changed to a shatterproof material or include some means of pressure relief like a burst disk.
> G3 FK:
> 
> Larger 35L vessel suits my needs better than the FZ, since my batch sizes are 20L (not 19L) and as I said I take quite a few samples and also tend to drink carbonated beer from the vessel for a little while before kegging. YMMV.
> Much more suited to CIP with the 1/2" BSP through-fitting in the lid.
> Smaller lid opening means that it's harder to get inside to manually clean, and there's less room on the lid to mount fittings. The cornelius-type posts are great in that I can convert them to 5/8" with adapters (everything except FVs in my brewery is commercial type fittings) but if I do that I can't fully unscrew the lid collar to remove it for adding drauflassen wort. I've asked a mate to turn down a pair of those adapters to hopefully get clearance for the collar so fingers crossed, but for the time being I need to keep using the ball lock posts unfortunately.
> Tri clamp adapter on the cone. Perfect for me (although would prefer 1.5" rather than 2" for homebrewing scale), tri clamp reducer, elbow, valve, great. Except the adapter is really easy to knock off the cone piece. KK has sent me a replacement adapter which they think will work better, so again fingers crossed when I receive it that it holds better. But having this adapter is the big win item for my usage.
> The cooling coil is too small for cold conditioning, at least in Brisbane ambient conditions. In February I couldn't get my lager below 6 degrees before turning it into an eishelles with big chunks of ice on the coil. This is in the insulated jacket and trialing various coolant temps between -11 to -1. There's probably not much that can be done about this as the size of the coil is restricted by the size of the top opening. As an alternative I'm currently trialing a cooling wrap around the outside, which I've got high hopes for (but $$$).
> I slightly prefer the fully enclosed jacket to the FZ's bottomless one.
> I'm not at all a fan of the plunge valve (if I had to choose I'd probably just take this over the large FZ butterfly, but I prefer not to use either), but given I'm using a tri clamp valve off the base the plunge valve is unnecessary so I just removed it and capped the bulkhead fitting in the lid for my current brew. Not sure that tethering the dip-tube float to the plunge valve really adds much, ambivalent here but probably a larger tether ring for a bit more freedom might work better, it seemed to hang up a bit when I used it.
> At the moment I'm more likely to buy another G3 than FZ, but that depends on how successful the replacement tri clamp adapter is and also my trial of the cooling wrap (not a KK product). I'm picking up some valveless fermenters to simplify my brewing process (in terms of time spent on cleaning and sanitisation) for ales after a long period doing lagered beers, I've gone for the all rounder over snub nose purely for the larger opening making them easier to clean by hand. If the larger opening of the 60L FK / snub nose made it into the smaller vessels then I'd have likely gone down that path but it doesn't sound like that can be done unfortunately.
> 
> Happy to take any questions. Not affiliated with KK or KL, don't know either of them personally, I'm in Brisbane and don't give a fvck about the politics.


One of the most important differences is being missed here by most of the posters. That is the tank quality. The Fermenter Tanks from KK are made using the patented CYPET process which does not reheat the PET but makes the tank in one process. You can see the difference by looking at the micro cracks and stretch marks on other tanks where the neck stays cool when the rest of the preform body is reheated. This does not happen with the single stage CYPET process. Each of the tanks is pressure tested to 5 bar. We have never had one explode and no doubt users have made an error or two. The tanks also have very good clarity and integrity. As we do not want users to put their hands inside the vessel the 35 litre tank neck size will stay the same. The 60 litre unit does have a larger opening and integrated handles. It will be on the market soon. The reason why you might not have seen many people talk about it is that we are introducing the products slowly to see what issues might arise if any. Like most new things there were a couple and so we addressed these rather than just rushing this out and then having problems on our hands resulting in a bad reputation. The plunger valve is much easier to sanitise than a butterfly valve. You can even stick it in a dish washer. It also prevents any excess pressure from the collection bottle to cause that to rupture. So there is no bang for your buck but you will have a good fermenter which you can trust.


----------



## Meddo

CEO Keg King said:


> One of the most important differences is being missed here by most of the posters. That is the tank quality. The Fermenter Tanks from KK are made using the patented CYPET process which does not reheat the PET but makes the tank in one process. You can see the difference by looking at the micro cracks and stretch marks on other tanks where the neck stays cool when the rest of the preform body is reheated. This does not happen with the single stage CYPET process. Each of the tanks is pressure tested to 5 bar. We have never had one explode and no doubt users have made an error or two. The tanks also have very good clarity and integrity. As we do not want users to put their hands inside the vessel the 35 litre tank neck size will stay the same. The 60 litre unit does have a larger opening and integrated handles. It will be on the market soon. The reason why you might not have seen many people talk about it is that we are introducing the products slowly to see what issues might arise if any. Like most new things there were a couple and so we addressed these rather than just rushing this out and then having problems on our hands resulting in a bad reputation. The plunger valve is much easier to sanitise than a butterfly valve. You can even stick it in a dish washer. It also prevents any excess pressure from the collection bottle to cause that to rupture. So there is no bang for your buck but you will have a good fermenter which you can trust.


Why do you not want people putting their hands inside the vessel? I assume you don't expect everyone to CIP so is there a recommended cleaning method that doesn't involve scrubbing? I must say I probably skipped reading the instruction book so might have missed something...

Cheers


----------



## Edward Rowe

CEO Keg King said:


> One of the most important differences is being missed here by most of the posters. That is the tank quality. The Fermenter Tanks from KK are made using the patented CYPET process which does not reheat the PET but makes the tank in one process. You can see the difference by looking at the micro cracks and stretch marks on other tanks where the neck stays cool when the rest of the preform body is reheated. This does not happen with the single stage CYPET process. Each of the tanks is pressure tested to 5 bar. We have never had one explode and no doubt users have made an error or two. The tanks also have very good clarity and integrity. As we do not want users to put their hands inside the vessel the 35 litre tank neck size will stay the same. The 60 litre unit does have a larger opening and integrated handles. It will be on the market soon. The reason why you might not have seen many people talk about it is that we are introducing the products slowly to see what issues might arise if any. Like most new things there were a couple and so we addressed these rather than just rushing this out and then having problems on our hands resulting in a bad reputation. The plunger valve is much easier to sanitise than a butterfly valve. You can even stick it in a dish washer. It also prevents any excess pressure from the collection bottle to cause that to rupture. So there is no bang for your buck but you will have a good fermenter which you can trust.



Awesome, now create your own thread.


----------



## awfulknauful

TheBeerBaron said:


> The plunger itself still has an o-ring in it which could harbour crud in the groove? so you need to pick that out and clean behind each time? also, the bottom housing would need to be dismantled occasionally for cleaning on the G3 as well. So we're splitting hairs here really on which is worse / better.
> 
> @Meddo 's reply is nicely detailed and goes to show neither are perfect for everyone. As I said, I already have a FZ so the features of the G3 aren't worth changing for. I know when I was starting out which was not too long ago, the FZ was yet to be released so I held off buying a Fermentasaurus because the FZ had genuine upgrades. I still like being able to purge my dry hops via the bottom container however so I think I would probably still go FZ if I was in the market with fresh eyes again now. And to my previous point, if I went out researching, I would have bugger all to look at of the G3 to sway me it's direction.
> 
> I think the assertion that the FZ is somehow prone to exploding or somehow not as 'safe' as the G3 is definitely a stretch of the imagination though. There's so many variables in play when that happens.
> 
> @awfulknauful I don't think it is fair to call out KL for your FZ being dented, there's no way to guarantee the member you bought it off didn't accidentally do it. Or the original courier.


Everyone has a choice, we have different trains of thought I don't hold that against anyone we are all different.
Cleaning a plunger base and O ring would surely be a lot easier than taking apart the large butterfly valve.





Unscrewing the bottom fixtures are easily done, taking the top lid of is easily done too, no belt wrench required. Wouldn't say we are splitting hairs. Yes Meddos reply is excellent, there will always be differences which does not suit everyone, the difference for me is the simplicity of the use and dismantling of the FK. I am sure there are users of the FermZilla who like taking apart butterfly valves, but that does nothing for me.
You can put dry hops in the bottom of the FK unit but why bother not only with the FK but with the FermZilla, depressurise take the top off and drop them in, there isn't going to be an exodus of CO2. Then again on the FermZilla it would involve a wrestling match with the belt wrench and the body of the FermZilla.
I don't think it is a stretch of the imagination about the exploding bodies or bottles, plenty of evidence out there, and the guy who got a neck wound wasn't imagining it either.
Doesn't matter how many variables are at play, even if it is user error there is still liability on the manufacturers part.
As for the purchase of my FermZilla I got it off Bbowzky1. Two boxes siting in his brewery I just picked one up both were undamaged boxes and both unopened he didn't push one to me, it was my choice, and he's no Derren Brown.
Also when he read my post he did message me offering to take it back, but appart from me there were a few of the early ones with dents. WEAL and Farsideofcrazy did mention it could have been trapped air inside the mould on the machine but it definitely wouldn't pop out.
I am glad you haven't had any problems and you get many years out of using it

Cheers Tim


----------



## awfulknauful

Edward Rowe said:


> Awesome, now create your own thread.


He's already got one KK - 'Fermentasaurus' conical PET fermenter and Keg Land has been on that without anyone caring.


----------



## CKK

Meddo said:


> Why do you not want people putting their hands inside the vessel? I assume you don't expect everyone to CIP so is there a recommended cleaning method that doesn't involve scrubbing? I must say I probably skipped reading the instruction book so might have missed something...
> 
> Cheers


We found that we could clean it fairly well with Atomic 15 and are just concerned once folks put their hands in then small scratches could be the result.


----------



## pauly

Grmblz said:


> @pauly don't forget the magnet method for your dry hopping, it's great for dropping the hops after high krausen but can also be used to pull the hops up out of the beer.


The only reason I haven't tried this is that I like to hop loose and a lot. I'm not sure I could rig it in a way that 200g of hops are sitting there waiting to drop from some kind of net.

Once KL come out with the 5L PET bottles I am going to try making a massive hop tea and transfer it when kegging.


----------



## Trippinonprozac

Grmblz said:


> @pauly don't forget the magnet method for your dry hopping, it's great for dropping the hops after high krausen but can also be used to pull the hops up out of the beer.



So you leave your hops on a bag in primary for up to a week or more waiting to drop them in? Wouldn’t you want them fresh out of the freezer?


----------



## Vic

Trippinonprozac said:


> So you leave your hops on a bag in primary for up to a week or more waiting to drop them in? Wouldn’t you want them fresh out of the freezer?


Frozen hops as opposed to fresh cones or pellets. Interesting? Maybe a new thread here.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Trippinonprozac said:


> So you leave your hops on a bag in primary for up to a week or more waiting to drop them in? Wouldn’t you want them fresh out of the freezer?


I store my hops in jars in the freezer, the jars I give a good dose of CO 2 to prevent any oxidation. Hops suspended in the fermenter aren't going to oxidise, should only be for 3 or 4 days until the the ferment is within the last couple of points and the hops can be submerged into the wort.


----------



## Grmblz

Get a vacuum sealer, and reseal your hops, and put them back in the freezer. hops suspended in an actively fermenting environment are immersed in CO2 so no oxygenation (ok so not strictly true as gasses do mix, the common analogy of oil and water with CO2 being heavier than air pushing out the oxygen doesn't actually happen, the whole blanket of CO2 covering and protecting your brew is a bit of a furphy but that's for others to explain) and a little oxygenation does occur, but such a little over such a short time frame as to be nearly inconsequential, as compared to opening your fermenter to the elements to insert your hops.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

awfulknauful said:


> Everyone has a choice, we have different trains of thought I don't hold that against anyone we are all different.
> Cleaning a plunger base and O ring would surely be a lot easier than taking apart the large butterfly valve.
> View attachment 118087
> 
> Unscrewing the bottom fixtures are easily done, taking the top lid of is easily done too, no belt wrench required. Wouldn't say we are splitting hairs. Yes Meddos reply is excellent, there will always be differences which does not suit everyone, the difference for me is the simplicity of the use and dismantling of the FK. I am sure there are users of the FermZilla who like taking apart butterfly valves, but that does nothing for me.
> You can put dry hops in the bottom of the FK unit but why bother not only with the FK but with the FermZilla, depressurise take the top off and drop them in, there isn't going to be an exodus of CO2. Then again on the FermZilla it would involve a wrestling match with the belt wrench and the body of the FermZilla.
> I don't think it is a stretch of the imagination about the exploding bodies or bottles, plenty of evidence out there, and the guy who got a neck wound wasn't imagining it either.
> Doesn't matter how many variables are at play, even if it is user error there is still liability on the manufacturers part.
> As for the purchase of my FermZilla I got it off Bbowzky1. Two boxes siting in his brewery I just picked one up both were undamaged boxes and both unopened he didn't push one to me, it was my choice, and he's no Derren Brown.
> Also when he read my post he did message me offering to take it back, but appart from me there were a few of the early ones with dents. WEAL and Farsideofcrazy did mention it could have been trapped air inside the mould on the machine but it definitely wouldn't pop out.
> I am glad you haven't had any problems and you get many years out of using it
> 
> Cheers Tim



Might be my last reply, because it's getting a bit circular. Below is a shot of the G3 lower assembly. Very similar in how much effort you'd have to go to to take apart to fully clean. I don't see either being drastically better or worse than the other in this respect. FWIW I have never taken that butterfly valve apart for cleaning.. not sure I ever will unless I get an infection. 







I prefer dry hop via bottom because I can fully purge and the vessel is never open to oxygen at any stage, you can't do this on the G3. I understand KK will say it doesn't matter opening to dry hop via the top but I like the option to not have to. Like I said, preference. 

End of the day, if the FermZilla did not exist, I would probably would buy a G3... but it does and I prefer it's features.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

TheBeerBaron said:


> Might be my last reply, because it's getting a bit circular. Below is a shot of the G3 lower assembly. Very similar in how much effort you'd have to go to to take apart to fully clean. I don't see either being drastically better or worse than the other in this respect. FWIW I have never taken that butterfly valve apart for cleaning.. not sure I ever will unless I get an infection.
> 
> View attachment 118104
> 
> 
> I prefer dry hop via bottom because I can fully purge and the vessel is never open to oxygen at any stage, you can't do this on the G3. I understand KK will say it doesn't matter opening to dry hop via the top but I like the option to not have to. Like I said, preference.
> 
> End of the day, if the FermZilla did not exist, I would probably would buy a G3... but it does and I prefer it's features.


Where does it say you can't dry hop from the bottom of the Fermenter King? Whats wrong with dry hopping from the top?


----------



## TheBeerBaron

wide eyed and legless said:


> Where does it say you can't dry hop from the bottom of the Fermenter King? Whats wrong with dry hopping from the top?



You can't purge the container on the G3.

The last two brews in the FZ have done had 100g+ dry hops and once I opened the valve, only half made it up into the beer. I had to attach gas to the post on the container and pull the PRV up top to bubble all the hops up into the beer. Not an issue with the size of the opening or anything, they all just swirled around and sat back down. Other brews they've all happily floated to the surface of the beer.

I am thinking the reason most people have abandoned dry hopping via the bottom bottle on the Fermentasaurus or G3 etc. is because it doesn't work. 
I can imagine a big dry hop in the G3 lower ball just all getting stuck down there and you can't do anything about it short of turning the whole show upside down and shaking. 

Nothing wrong with dry hopping via the top per se but if you are particularly concerned about exposure to oxygen it's not as good as the purged, lower container option.


----------



## Ballaratguy

TheBeerBaron said:


> You can't purge the container on the G3.
> 
> The last two brews in the FZ have done had 100g+ dry hops and once I opened the valve, only half made it up into the beer. I had to attach gas to the post on the container and pull the PRV up top to bubble all the hops up into the beer. Not an issue with the size of the opening or anything, they all just swirled around and sat back down. Other brews they've all happily floated to the surface of the beer.
> 
> I am thinking the reason most people have abandoned dry hopping via the bottom bottle on the Fermentasaurus or G3 etc. is because it doesn't work.
> I can imagine a big dry hop in the G3 lower ball just all getting stuck down there and you can't do anything about it short of turning the whole show upside down and shaking.
> 
> Nothing wrong with dry hopping via the top per se but if you are particularly concerned about exposure to oxygen it's not as good as the purged, lower container option.


Actually you could dry hop from the bottom
Jaybird in the US make a yeast harvester/ hop brink (using a mason glass jar) that when attached to the tri clamp you could then dry hop from the bottom
I made a version of this for my Guten fermenter (pic’s it the Guten thread)


----------



## Trippinonprozac

If you’re pressure fermenting doesn’t it kinda defeat the purpose to then release the pressure and dry hop from that top?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Trippinonprozac said:


> If you’re pressure fermenting doesn’t it kinda defeat the purpose to then release the pressure and dry hop from that top?


Usual way of dry hopping is when there are a couple of points left to go of fermentation, so you can release the pressure so to equalise with atmospheric pressure. Take off the top and drop the hops in, you aren't going to lose the co2 already in there. You can then either wait for the pressure to build up (doesn't take long) or gas up with co2 . 
Also worth looking at the set up Ballaratguy made.


----------



## pauly

TheBeerBaron said:


> ...just all getting stuck down there and you can't do anything about it short of turning the whole show upside down and shaking.



This happened to me with the FZ. Big clump of hop pellets expanded and formed a clump in the bottom of the container, I had to pick up the the fermenter and swish it back and forth for a good 5 mins to get them mixed in. After that I bought a second collection container that I could pre-sanitize and fill with hops, however now I dry hop from the top as it's more reliable/predictable behaviour.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

Ballaratguy said:


> Actually you could dry hop from the bottom
> Jaybird in the US make a yeast harvester/ hop brink (using a mason glass jar) that when attached to the tri clamp you could then dry hop from the bottom
> I made a version of this for my Guten fermenter (pic’s it the Guten thread)



still got the issue of narrow opening back into the fermenter, no option to purge it and if they all get stuck down there, you can't do anything about it really. 

like I said, 'out of the box' the FermZilla is more suited for dry hopping via the bottom


----------



## CKK

TheBeerBaron said:


> still got the issue of narrow opening back into the fermenter, no option to purge it and if they all get stuck down there, you can't do anything about it really.
> 
> like I said, 'out of the box' the FermZilla is more suited for dry hopping via the bottom


Understand that you are a staunch champion of Kegland products but I am hoping that we could have a conversation where we might be able to have a look at things a bit more objectively. Of course if you have a connection to KL other than as a customer then this will go nowhere. If not then how about we hit the reset button and have a go? I believe we are a decent home brew business that has been subjected to some rather bad press on AHB and other media for a long time. Just dial up www.kegking.cn and you have the proof of what I mean. What kind of business just registers a domain and business name in China which then links back to you know who. Anyway would love to have a chat with you if you are willing and I think I can show you that we are not what you have been told. Up for it? What is there to lose?


----------



## Nullnvoid

CEO Keg King said:


> Understand that you are a staunch champion of Kegland products but I am hoping that we could have a conversation where we might be able to have a look at things a bit more objectively. Of course if you have a connection to KL other than as a customer then this will go nowhere. If not then how about we hit the reset button and have a go? I believe we are a decent home brew business that has been subjected to some rather bad press on AHB and other media for a long time. Just dial up www.kegking.cn and you have the proof of what I mean. What kind of business just registers a domain and business name in China which then links back to you know who. Anyway would love to have a chat with you if you are willing and I think I can show you that we are not what you have been told. Up for it? What is there to lose?



This is a thread for the Fermzilla. I think you need to take this chat elsewhere.


----------



## CKK

Nullnvoid said:


> This is a thread for the Fermzilla. I think you need to take this chat elsewhere.


Well good man the Beer Baron did publish our gen 3 drawing here so why get your knickers in a knot about me wanting to communicate? If people have interest in our products then what is there to lose. Brewers have interest obviously as evidenced by previous posts here so lets not get too uptight.


----------



## Nullnvoid

I hg


CEO Keg King said:


> Well good man the Beer Baron did publish our gen 3 drawing here so why get your knickers in a knot about me wanting to communicate? If people have interest in our products then what is there to lose. Brewers have interest obviously as evidenced by previous posts here so lets not get too uptight.



I have my knickers in a knot, becuase you are degrading the thread. I don't agree about the chat about your products in this thread, but that's fine, people seem to want too, I can live with that. But you chiming in with irelevant discussions about what Kegland are doing in China isn't helping or necessary in this thread. Many other threads have been opened up over the weekend to take this drivel.

I have a fermzilla, I like fermzilla, it works exactly as it is intended and I haven't had an issue. I wouldn't get the your version as I don't like it's features. I started this thread to discuss using the fermzilla.


----------



## Nullnvoid

And I realise I'm not degrading this thread and that shits me too.


----------



## CKK

Nullnvoid said:


> And I realise I'm not degrading this thread and that shits me too.


Sorry if I have touched on some sort of nerve there but when there was discussion about our products then I felt it reasonable to join in. Maybe you don't agree with this and I am happy for you have your say and would hope you felt likewise. For the record we don't have a "version" as that implies ours is some sort of variant which it is not. Hope the twisted knickers can be straightened. Lets agree to disagree and then the thread will remain useful and not degraded. Would love the chance to have a talk with you also.


----------



## awfulknauful

TheBeerBaron said:


> still got the issue of narrow opening back into the fermenter, no option to purge it and if they all get stuck down there, you can't do anything about it really.
> 
> like I said, 'out of the box' the FermZilla is more suited for dry hopping via the bottom


Leaving the politcs out of it, I think the most important feature of the fermentasaurus is the safety, for all the years they have been in use I haven't seen any pics of any exploding ones and the new Fermenter King is even safer. I know that most of our brewing gear comes from China, but the state our economy is going to be in it would be a good idea to buy Australian made. Stay safe. I mean that from a Corona virus perspective not just from the Fermzilla.


----------



## Grmblz

This is all starting to sound a bit like Holden v Ford, both of which made lemons as well as good vehicles (sort of) the partisan nature of some commentators detracts from the intent of forums such as this which is to share knowledge and help one another, if it's a piece of crap then fine, say so (but back it up) and if it's a good product then give credit where credit is due, regardless of which team it comes from.
Constructive criticism seems to be a rare commodity of late.
@awfulknauful You make a good point re: China, it's latest stance is just a small showing of it's true colours, as anyone that has dealt with them in a political context will attest to. Unfortunately Australia has largely abandoned manufacturing which will bite it on the arse eventually, and agreed that whilst "made in Australia" is a rare beast these days it should be supported.
You don't have to be moron to close the valve on the fermies when there's still activity (don't ask, it was a seniors moment) but my saurus didn't explode (made a bloody mess though) I would think that if you're going to make the collection bottle out of a brittle material an included PRV wouldn.t be a bad idea.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

CEO Keg King said:


> Understand that you are a staunch champion of Kegland products but I am hoping that we could have a conversation where we might be able to have a look at things a bit more objectively. Of course if you have a connection to KL other than as a customer then this will go nowhere. If not then how about we hit the reset button and have a go? I believe we are a decent home brew business that has been subjected to some rather bad press on AHB and other media for a long time. Just dial up www.kegking.cn and you have the proof of what I mean. What kind of business just registers a domain and business name in China which then links back to you know who. Anyway would love to have a chat with you if you are willing and I think I can show you that we are not what you have been told. Up for it? What is there to lose?



I think if you read my comments on this thread, I have been fair to your product in question being the G3. If If I am anti anything KK it would probably be the whole fake accounts thing.. 

I think I have said it before, if you your company ever makes anything I want, I'd probably buy it. Hasn't happened yet though because I have what I need for now. 

As for the whole domain thing, maybe they're upset your suing them? I dunno.. wild guess.


----------



## CKK

TheBeerBaron said:


> I think if you read my comments on this thread, I have been fair to your product in question being the G3. If If I am anti anything KK it would probably be the whole fake accounts thing..
> 
> I think I have said it before, if you your company ever makes anything I want, I'd probably buy it. Hasn't happened yet though because I have what I need for now.
> 
> As for the whole domain thing, maybe they're upset your suing them? I dunno.. wild guess.


No, the name and domain registration were done in China long before that started so that is no reason. One does not take what does not belong to one. Far worse than any fake accounts I would say and don't forget the reasons why we were kept off AHB for so long. Also there are still quite a number of fake accounts some of which we have seen admin weeding out recently. Pot, kettle black comes to mind. So not much left to defend there. If a business run out of China thinks its ok to use our name to help them divert people to buy KL products then I reckon most decent Aussies would take a pretty dim view of that. Especially in the light of recent events we are getting backing from a lot of customers for at least doing all our development and some manufacturing in Australia. We do put back into the Australian community and our plans are to increase that with a new machining facility to at least make some specialised stainless steel products right here. We are proud that we can employ people in Australia who enjoy brewing and put their passion for this into what we design and make. Its paying off in spades and once this Covid thing is over we look forward to welcoming the many again who enjoy our services back to our facilities.

So why the need for this Chinese business called AMCO Technologies to pretend they are Kegking? Pretty low effort. 

Anyway as I said I would love to have a conversation with you because your writing reminds me of someone in Brisbane with whom I had interchanges on another platform. I am always interested in what brewers out there might want now or in the future because that is how the next generation of equipment starts. We will have a temp control system for our fermenters this year that will handle Brisbane weather too. You never know we might make something that you need and like and maybe we can even become friends.


----------



## Ballaratguy

TheBeerBaron said:


> still got the issue of narrow opening back into the fermenter, no option to purge it and if they all get stuck down there, you can't do anything about it really.
> 
> like I said, 'out of the box' the FermZilla is more suited for dry hopping via the bottom


If you have a look at the hop brink video you will see that they can be purged with gas


----------



## Ballaratguy

Ballaratguy said:


> If you have a look at the hop brink video you will see that they can be purged with gas and “shoot” the hops into the fermenter


----------



## pauly

Ballaratguy said:


> If you have a look at the hop brink video you will see that they can be purged with gas


I guess you mean this one:  

Personally I wouldn't be super comfortable putting any pressure in a mason jar for a couple of hours, although I expect the lid would fail before the glass. Irrespective of this it is not (like TheBeerBaron said) better suited 'out of the box'. Also I am sure that the people that purge seven (or twenty) times would likely complain that the method did not get rid of all the oxygen and did result in oxygen contact.

I think it would be great for the next person that wants to compare the FZ to another product could create a comparison thread for that, then the half a dozen people interested could keep track of that, and we can get back to talking about using, cleaning, and maintaining our fermzillas without having to endlessly and unhelpfully have them compared with competing products.


----------



## goatchop41

pauly said:


> I think it would be great for the next person that wants to compare the FZ to another product could create a comparison thread for that, then the half a dozen people interested could keep track of that, and we can get back to talking about using, cleaning, and maintaining our fermzillas without having to endlessly and unhelpfully have them compared with competing products.


Can we get an amen?!


----------



## awfulknauful

pauly said:


> I guess you mean this one:
> 
> Personally I wouldn't be super comfortable putting any pressure in a mason jar for a couple of hours, although I expect the lid would fail before the glass. Irrespective of this it is not (like TheBeerBaron said) better suited 'out of the box'. Also I am sure that the people that purge seven (or twenty) times would likely complain that the method did not get rid of all the oxygen and did result in oxygen contact.
> 
> I think it would be great for the next person that wants to compare the FZ to another product could create a comparison thread for that, then the half a dozen people interested could keep track of that, and we can get back to talking about using, cleaning, and maintaining our fermzillas without having to endlessly and unhelpfully have them compared with competing products.



Probably a lot safer using the Mason jar than the collection bottle.
I don't know if the FermZilla V2 is any better, they may have ironed out the stress fractures with the new shape. Now coming with handle and lube out of the box seems better. Just have to wait and see. As mentioned before it's probably better to wait for a V3 version (malt mill thread)
Quote: Fools rush in. Elvis Presley.


----------



## mdav

Has anyone done a thermo well in a snubnose or similar. I don't think sticking the probe to the side is a great method.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

mdav said:


> Has anyone done a thermo well in a snubnose or similar. I don't think sticking the probe to the side is a great method.


Very easy to make a thermowell, a male threaded barb fitted to top, silicone tube, blocked at end cable tie or whatever drop in the Inkbird thermocouple or what you are using, job done. Will be an accurate reading but only about 1-2 C difference to the outside. On the plus side.


----------



## Vic

Wrong thread. Snubnose is a KK variant of the Fermentasauris. But for what it's worth, I have a Fermzilla with a themowell and have also used a probe the out side (insulated). Not much difference in readings. Although the thermowell may give a more accurate core reading it can also lead to temperature overshoot and/or undershoot. More noticeable on the 55L FZ than th 27L. Possibly due to thermal lag.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Vic said:


> Wrong thread. Snubnose is a KK variant of the Fermentasauris. But for what it's worth, I have a Fermzilla with a themowell and have also used a probe the out side (insulated). Not much difference in readings. Although the thermowell may give a more accurate core reading it can also lead to temperature overshoot and/or undershoot. More noticeable on the 55L FZ than th 27L. Possibly due to thermal lag.


He did say Snubnose or similar. Why the difference Vic with the 55 and 27 litre Fermzilla? The core of both would be the same wouldn't they?


----------



## Vic

Wrong thread. Snubnose is a KK variant of the Fermentasauris. But for what it's worth, I have a Fermzilla with a themowell and have also used a probe the out side (insulated). Not much difference in readings. Although the thermowell may give a more accurate core reading it can also lead to temperature overshoot and/or undershoot. More noticeable on the 55L FZ than the 27L FZ


wide eyed and legless said:


> He did say Snubnose or similar. Why the difference Vic with the 55 and 27 litre Fermzilla? The core of both would be the same wouldn't they?


I would think so. But this does not happen in real life. During fermentation, when there is a lot of movement in the liquid, little if no over/under shoot is noticed. After fermentation, during rest or lager ramp, even with a 30min lag between heat and cool, a 1 to 2.5C difference is observed. Probably not significant. The only reason I can think of is that with a still liquid being heated or cooled from the outside but the temperature is taken in the core there will be a lag. This does not happen with the probe on the outside. Happy to be corrected.


----------



## fdsaasdf

awfulknauful said:


> Probably a lot safer using the Mason jar than the collection bottle.
> I don't know if the FermZilla V2 is any better, they may have ironed out the stress fractures with the new shape. Now coming with handle and lube out of the box seems better. Just have to wait and see. As mentioned before it's probably better to wait for a V3 version (malt mill thread)
> Quote: Fools rush in. Elvis Presley.


Yeah, definitely safer to use glass than plastic for a pressure collection container with no pressure relief valve /s


----------



## awfulknauful

fdsaasdf said:


> Yeah, definitely safer to use glass than plastic for a pressure collection container with no pressure relief valve /s


Most certainly the glass from a Mason jar or the O ring would eliminate any shattering of the glass, unlike the collection bottle which will explode as can be attested by the poor soul who got a shard of plastic in his neck could attest.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Vic said:


> Wrong thread. Snubnose is a KK variant of the Fermentasauris. But for what it's worth, I have a Fermzilla with a themowell and have also used a probe the out side (insulated). Not much difference in readings. Although the thermowell may give a more accurate core reading it can also lead to temperature overshoot and/or undershoot. More noticeable on the 55L FZ than the 27L FZ
> 
> I would think so. But this does not happen in real life. During fermentation, when there is a lot of movement in the liquid, little if no over/under shoot is noticed. After fermentation, during rest or lager ramp, even with a 30min lag between heat and cool, a 1 to 2.5C difference is observed. Probably not significant. The only reason I can think of is that with a still liquid being heated or cooled from the outside but the temperature is taken in the core there will be a lag. This does not happen with the probe on the outside. Happy to be corrected.


Not trying to correct you, I know my ambient temperature in my fermenting room and I know the temperature on the external walls of the vessel. Not guessing at the internal exothermic temperature just going by what I have read on similar threads. Just wondering if the mass would make that much difference


----------



## frosty3

Just out of curiosity has anyone tried making a flat seal for the top of the fz?? I know there isn’t one around but it make more sense to me with fixing leaking issues and stop it from getting stuck/jammed.


----------



## awfulknauful

frosty3 said:


> Just out of curiosity has anyone tried making a flat seal for the top of the fz?? I know there isn’t one around but it make more sense to me with fixing leaking issues and stop it from getting stuck/jammed.


Have a look at the new one I have a feeling it has a better seal.


----------



## frosty3

awfulknauful said:


> Have a look at the new one I have a feeling it has a better seal.


Do you have a fermzilla? If so do you think a flat seal would work better?


----------



## awfulknauful

frosty3 said:


> Do you have a fermzilla? If so do you think a flat seal would work better?


Mine is now a terrarium, I just have a feeling Dr Hans said something about the seal in his review of the FermZilla V2


----------



## CKK

mdav said:


> Has anyone done a thermo well in a snubnose or similar. I don't think sticking the probe to the side is a great method.


The gen 3 snubnose lid comes with standard attachment in the centre to fit our thermowell. I have a couple now but will get them on the website soon.


----------



## Fro-Daddy

I have heard that the probe on the side is better as it captures the temperature of a higher volume of wort.


----------



## malt and barley blues

Fro-Daddy said:


> I have heard that the probe on the side is better as it captures the temperature of a higher volume of wort.


I would think that the core is where the heat would be, towards the outer proximity it would be losing heat. I suppose you could take both for an average temperature.


awfulknauful said:


> Mine is now a terrarium, I just have a feeling Dr Hans said something about the seal in his review of the FermZilla V2


So what are you growing?


----------



## CKK

malt and barley blues said:


> I would think that the core is where the heat would be, towards the outer proximity it would be losing heat. I suppose you could take both for an average temperature.
> 
> So what are you growing?


When the universities are allowed to reopen in August we are sending a 60 litre to Monash Brewlab and this is one of the things we will ask them to do some proper testing on.


----------



## Vic

wide eyed and legless said:


> Not trying to correct you, I know my ambient temperature in my fermenting room and I know the temperature on the external walls of the vessel. Not guessing at the internal exothermic temperature just going by what I have read on similar threads. Just wondering if the mass would make that much difference


Interesting. Fermenting room. Does this mean you have a relatively large temp controlled space rather than individual temperature controlled fridges for each fermenter?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Vic said:


> Interesting. Fermenting room. Does this mean you have a relatively large temp controlled space rather than individual temperature controlled fridges for each fermenter?


Yes purpose built fermenting room, works brilliant in summer, winter has been a drag but now have a temperature control which I can run the heat cycle on without it getting to hot.


----------



## frosty3

awfulknauful said:


> Mine is now a terrarium, I just have a feeling Dr Hans said something about the seal in his review of the FermZilla V2


Mmmm interesting but still nothing to do with what I was asking.


----------



## awfulknauful

Seems every time one opens facebook there is a destroyed FermZilla, why don't they just call them in and go back to the drawing board.
I think the only error the user makes is using the FermZilla as a pressure fermenter.


----------



## Nullnvoid

Least we know who is sending these pictures to CEO kegking  

In the first picture, I'm not sure what has even occured apart from being too carbonated.


----------



## philrob

Never understood the logic of pressure fermenting. Got what they deserved. 
2.2 bar? That's about the pressure you run in your car tyres, and they're built with steel etc belts to contain the pressure.
What makes people think an oversized softdrink bottle will hold the same pressure?


----------



## RRising

I have a couple of questions, i need to upgrade my fermenter and retire my Coopers DIY barrel and looking at upgrading to the Fermzilla (or KK's Fermenter King) What i want to know are there any hidden costs to this kit and is it ready out of the box without additional necessary purchases?

Do i need to build a new insulated brew box (my current one is a tad bit too small) or is the jacket enough to keep it warm if i hook up a light under it.


----------



## CKK

RRising said:


> I have a couple of questions, i need to upgrade my fermenter and retire my Coopers DIY barrel and looking at upgrading to the Fermzilla (or KK's Fermenter King) What i want to know are there any hidden costs to this kit and is it ready out of the box without additional necessary purchases?
> 
> Do i need to build a new insulated brew box (my current one is a tad bit too small) or is the jacket enough to keep it warm if i hook up a light under it.


For the 35 litre Snub Nose unit the only extra items are a spunding valve (or a bubbler if you still ferment without pressure) and maybe the jacket. Otherwise its complete and ready to let you pressure ferment a better beer. Not bad for $79.95 and we have never had one explode.


----------



## sixfignig

philrob said:


> Never understood the logic of pressure fermenting. Got what they deserved.
> 2.2 bar? That's about the pressure you run in your car tyres, and they're built with steel etc belts to contain the pressure.
> What makes people think an oversized softdrink bottle will hold the same pressure?



Manufacturing or quality issues aside, this is an incredibly ill-informed post.

Benefits of fermenters that can be pressurised: reduced ester production combined with higher ferment temps, can turn beers around faster, spunding for natural carbonation, pressure transfers into kegs, essentially zero O2 ingress.

Well designed commercial PET bottles have insane burst ratings (100PSI +).


----------



## CKK

sixfignig said:


> Manufacturing or quality issues aside, this is an incredibly ill-informed post.
> 
> Benefits of fermenters that can be pressurised: reduced ester production combined with higher ferment temps, can turn beers around faster, spunding for natural carbonation, pressure transfers into kegs, essentially zero O2 ingress.
> 
> Well designed commercial PET bottles have insane burst ratings (100PSI +).


Fully agree with you. We test our 35 and 60 litre tanks to 5 bar and that is 72 psi. When we do destructive testing they mostly go to 7-9 bar before they blow. Pressure fermenting definitely can make a better beer and quicker.


----------



## RRising

sixfignig said:


> Well designed commercial PET bottles have insane burst ratings (100PSI +).



That's because PET bottles like Coke, Pepsi etc... are blow moulded where those in the pics above have been plastic welded hence the relatively low pressure range because the seam is the most likely point of failure.

Its likely that both the KL and KK range of PET fermenters are made at the same factory with the same materials so both will fail in similar ways.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

philrob said:


> Never understood the logic of pressure fermenting. Got what they deserved.
> 2.2 bar? That's about the pressure you run in your car tyres, and they're built with steel etc belts to contain the pressure.
> What makes people think an oversized softdrink bottle will hold the same pressure?


They are OK if you are making American IPA where they prefer a lack of esters and a more hop forward beer. They also do a poor imitation of a lager.



sixfignig said:


> Manufacturing or quality issues aside, this is an incredibly ill-informed post.
> 
> Benefits of fermenters that can be pressurised: reduced ester production combined with higher ferment temps, can turn beers around faster, spunding for natural carbonation, pressure transfers into kegs, essentially zero O2 ingress.
> 
> Well designed commercial PET bottles have insane burst ratings (100PSI +).


Agree with some of that, the reduced ester, carbonating the beer using its own CO2, there will always be some oxygen in a purged vessel, it can never be completely eliminated. Faster ferment whether under pressure or not the higher temperature will still ferment at the same rate. Could be argued that because the fermenting wort is under pressure that the distressed yeast doesn't perform as well.
Definitely the manufacturing process does need some scrutiny, it's an accident waiting to happen. May not be to the brewer but lots of brewers have small children around.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

RRising said:


> That's because PET bottles like Coke, Pepsi etc... are blow moulded where those in the pics above have been plastic welded hence the relatively low pressure range because the seam is the most likely point of failure.
> 
> Its likely that both the KL and KK range of PET fermenters are made at the same factory with the same materials so both will fail in similar ways.


The KL range are all manufactured in China, why aren't they being pressure tested? Because they are made on the cheap thats why. There is no plastic welding they are blow moulded.


----------



## RRising

wide eyed and legless said:


> The KL range are all manufactured in China, why aren't they being pressure tested? Because they are made on the cheap thats why. There is no plastic welding they are blow moulded.



Then why is KK's version being sold for $10 cheaper? Because its being made to the same price as KL's... Cheap.

Lets just cut out the horse crap, i understand KK signs your paychecks but both KL and KK's products are exactly the same bar a few small differences, they are made with the same materials in the same way, probably find that they are made in the same factory, the difference is the stickers and box they are packed in.


----------



## CKK

RRising said:


> That's because PET bottles like Coke, Pepsi etc... are blow moulded where those in the pics above have been plastic welded hence the relatively low pressure range because the seam is the most likely point of failure.
> 
> Its likely that both the KL and KK range of PET fermenters are made at the same factory with the same materials so both will fail in similar ways.


This is definitely a very ill informed post as the KK range is made on an advanced CYPET blow moulding facility right here in Melbourne and there is no welding at all. That is the reason why we can achieve the very high burst pressures and the superb clarity which eludes our competitors. Our tanks are an Australian product and each tank is individually tested and then date stamped. We do not produce tanks in China.


----------



## CKK

RRising said:


> Then why is KK's version being sold for $10 cheaper? Because its being made to the same price as KL's... Cheap.
> 
> Lets just cut out the horse crap, i understand KK signs your paychecks but both KL and KK's products are exactly the same bar a few small differences, they are made with the same materials in the same way, probably find that they are made in the same factory, the difference is the stickers and box they are packed in.


You are a very ill informed poster and I would like to invite you to visit our factory so that you can see for yourself that there is nothing the same about the KL units and ours. They are completely different products and have nothing in common. We can keep the price down because we don't need to ship them in from China.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

RRising said:


> Then why is KK's version being sold for $10 cheaper? Because its being made to the same price as KL's... Cheap.
> 
> Lets just cut out the horse crap, i understand KK signs your paychecks but both KL and KK's products are exactly the same bar a few small differences, they are made with the same materials in the same way, probably find that they are made in the same factory, the difference is the stickers and box they are packed in.


No body signs my pay checks bar me. Have a look on KK's youtube channel you can see the fermenters being made, and its in Springvale.
No ones stopping you from getting the *FermZilla* but don't come on here bleating that you got ripped like you did about the Robobrew 3, up the top for thinking and down the bottom for dancing.


----------



## onemorecell

philrob said:


> Never understood the logic of pressure fermenting. Got what they deserved.
> 2.2 bar? That's about the pressure you run in your car tyres, and they're built with steel etc belts to contain the pressure.
> What makes people think an oversized softdrink bottle will hold the same pressure?


aren't they only rated to like 12 or 15 PSI or something? I remember thinking it was low when i hear whatever it was.
i could be well mistaken though, i know nothing about these plastic fermenters (kegmenter bros where u at)


----------



## Vic

RRising said:


> I have a couple of questions, i need to upgrade my fermenter and retire my Coopers DIY barrel and looking at upgrading to the Fermzilla (or KK's Fermenter King) What i want to know are there any hidden costs to this kit and is it ready out of the box without additional necessary purchases?
> 
> Do i need to build a new insulated brew box (my current one is a tad bit too small) or is the jacket enough to keep it warm if i hook up a light under it.


Well???!!. you ignited the BS KK KL thing again, just look at the posts below, not your fault. I use 2 FZ 55L + 1 FZ 27L + fermentausirs. The FZ units work very well so long as you are not completely stupid like others who have posted pictures of exploding collection jars because they closed the butterfly vave and left them attached (fermentation not complete, pressure build up, explosion iminet) . Idiots. A Fermzilla would be one of the better choices to replace a Coopers barrel but READ the instructions.


----------



## RRising

Vic said:


> Well???!!. you ignited the BS KK KL thing again, just look at the posts below, not your fault. I use 2 FZ 55L + 1 FZ 27L + fermentausirs. The FZ units work very well so long as you are not completely stupid like others who have posted pictures of exploding collection jars because they closed the butterfly vave and left them attached (fermentation not complete, pressure build up, explosion iminet) . Idiots. A Fermzilla would be one of the better choices to replace a Coopers barrel but READ the instructions.



Yeah i know, should leave pissing matches well enough alone, although it is fun to kick the hornets nest every once in a while.

I don't plan on pressure fermenting yet but it would be something i will consider further down the line, a FZ or FK seem pretty decent doesn't matter what flavour kool-aid people drink they are amazingly similar.


----------



## awfulknauful

I wouldn't be calling them similar, I don't see many photos of Fermentasaurus or Fermenter Kings exploding if it is user error mabbe all the drongos are buying the Fermzilla and the smarter brewers the Fermenter King


----------



## Vic

awfulknauful said:


> I wouldn't be calling them similar, I don't see many photos of Fermentasaurus or Fermenter Kings exploding if it is user error mabbe all the drongos are buying the Fermzilla and the smarter brewers the Fermenter King


Customer misuse of a product is not a reason why others should not buy or not buy a product.. They are similar, they are fermenting vessels. READ my post. If you are that STUPID that you close the butterfly valve on a "FERMERTAURISIS , FERMZILLA or any similar device, then if fermentation is not complete a significant pressure build up in the collection vessel will happen, possibly leading to a catastrophic failure of the vessel.


----------



## davemac

philrob said:


> Never understood the logic of pressure fermenting. Got what they deserved.
> 2.2 bar? That's about the pressure you run in your car tyres, and they're built with steel etc belts to contain the pressure.
> What makes people think an oversized softdrink bottle will hold the same pressure?


Errm... they're sold as pressure fermenters


----------



## awfulknauful

Vic said:


> Customer misuse of a product is not a reason why others should not buy or not buy a product.. They are similar, they are fermenting vessels. READ my post. If you are that STUPID that you close the butterfly valve on a "FERMERTAURISIS , FERMZILLA or any similar device, then if fermentation is not complete a significant pressure build up in the collection vessel will happen, possibly leading to a catastrophic failure of the vessel.


But it isn't just the collection bottles its the fermenter body that is splitting open, even at 10 PSI!


----------



## Nullnvoid

wide eyed and legless said:


> No body signs my pay checks bar me. Have a look on KK's youtube channel you can see the fermenters being made, and its in Springvale.
> No ones stopping you from getting the FermZilla but don't come on here bleating that you got ripped like you did about the Robobrew 3, up the top for thinking and down the bottom for dancing.



I feel like I keep repeating myself. This is a thread for the Fermzilla. 

Ferm. Zilla. 

Not the Keg King product. Which I'm not even sure has a name*







*ok I thew that in for the sake of CEO kegking. But seriously does it have a name?







FERMZILLA.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Nullnvoid said:


> I feel like I keep repeating myself. This is a thread for the Fermzilla.
> 
> Ferm. Zilla.
> 
> Not the Keg King product. Which I'm not even sure has a name*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ok I thew that in for the sake of CEO kegking. But seriously does it have a name?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FERMZILLA.


Fermenter King. I did mention FermZilla in that post.


----------



## CKK

RRising said:


> Yeah i know, should leave pissing matches well enough alone, although it is fun to kick the hornets nest every once in a while.
> 
> I don't plan on pressure fermenting yet but it would be something i will consider further down the line, a FZ or FK seem pretty decent doesn't matter what flavour kool-aid people drink they are amazingly similar.


Amazingly similar? Well the All rounder was just a take off on the KK Snub Nose but the similarity stops there. Our tanks are made by a totally different process and I invite you again to visit our factory so that you can see it for yourself. The machinery used to make this is not available to the business in China making these products. Have you actually compared the quality of the KK tanks to the others? Even our packaging is made in Australia.

If you are here just to be annoying I get that. Some people just don’t have much else in their lives. However to compare a quality Australian product with great backup service to this Chinese tank is a poke in the eye to a bunch of hard working Australians who do not deserve the shit being heaped on what they worked very hard to produce. The KK product is well regarded around the world and it will continue to keep getting better. Frankly I don’t even want to be on this thread but I will defend our team against your ill informed assertions wherever they show up. Have the guts to actually come and visit us if you can or at least look at the video showing the production. You just blatantly said they came out of the same factory etc. Nothing could be further from the truth and no amount of the fun in kicking the hornets justifies your attack upon the good people behind what we make. What is wrong with people who feel the need to attack their own countrymen who try to do something good especially in this time?


----------



## Trippinonprozac

awfulknauful said:


> Seems every time one opens facebook there is a destroyed FermZilla, why don't they just call them in and go back to the drawing board.
> I think the only error the user makes is using the FermZilla as a pressure fermenter.
> View attachment 118235
> 
> View attachment 118236
> 
> View attachment 118237


Umm that first pic, isn’t the spunding valve supposed to go on the gas post? It’s on the beer post by the look of it.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

CEO Keg King said:


> Amazingly similar? Well the All rounder was just a take off on the KK Snub Nose but the similarity stops there. Our tanks are made by a totally different process and I invite you again to visit our factory so that you can see it for yourself. The machinery used to make this is not available to the business in China making these products. Have you actually compared the quality of the KK tanks to the others? Even our packaging is made in Australia.
> 
> If you are here just to be annoying I get that. Some people just don’t have much else in their lives. However to compare a quality Australian product with great backup service to this Chinese tank is a poke in the eye to a bunch of hard working Australians who do not deserve the shit being heaped on what they worked very hard to produce. The KK product is well regarded around the world and it will continue to keep getting better. Frankly I don’t even want to be on this thread but I will defend our team against your ill informed assertions wherever they show up. Have the guts to actually come and visit us if you can or at least look at the video showing the production. You just blatantly said they came out of the same factory etc. Nothing could be further from the truth and no amount of the fun in kicking the hornets justifies your attack upon the good people behind what we make. What is wrong with people who feel the need to attack their own countrymen who try to do something good especially in this time?



It amazes me that you keep banging on about your tanks being made in Australia like you need a medal for it and further insinuating that China cannot produce a quality product also. Especially considering, the vast majority of what you sell is made in China !? Probably other components on the Fermenter King are from China.

You also like to point out that KegLand 'copied' your snubnose idea... okay, well did KegKing then copy their idea to have a double batch sized Fermenter King?


----------



## Fro-Daddy

Trippinonprozac said:


> Umm that first pic, isn’t the spunding valve supposed to go on the gas post? It’s on the beer post by the look of it.


It is a liquid disconnect but isn't necessarily connected to the floating dip tube.
The carbonation caps are universal.


----------



## awfulknauful

TheBeerBaron said:


> It amazes me that you keep banging on about your tanks being made in Australia like you need a medal for it and further insinuating that China cannot produce a quality product also. Especially considering, the vast majority of what you sell is made in China !? Probably other components on the Fermenter King are from China.
> 
> You also like to point out that KegLand 'copied' your snubnose idea... okay, well did KegKing then copy their idea to have a double batch sized Fermenter King?


Settle down skip, let the guy have some credit for getting goods manufactured here, I doubt he's not after a medal or a mention in the honours list.
I don't think he insinuated that China cannot produce a quality tank he straight out said it.
Surely you can agree with that seeing all the ruptured FermZilla tanks.
Hopefully Keg Land will invest some money on a blow moulding machine like Keg King has done, provide more jobs here while keeping a watchful eye on quality control.

I don't know whether a double batch size would have been in the pipeline, but from drawing to tooling, to delivery takes time, remember how long it took KL to come up with the FermZilla, over two years we were waiting for that. Could have been thinking alike.
Stay safe Baron


----------



## onemorecell

Trippinonprozac said:


> Umm that first pic, isn’t the spunding valve supposed to go on the gas post? It’s on the beer post by the look of it.


no - if you do that all the beer comes out the spunding valve (suched through the dip tube), and you don't notice until the whole thing is empty and it's all over your floor.

it's ******* devastating


----------



## frosty3

The Tiger King 2.0 saga continues to play out on the AHB forum.


----------



## Trippinonprozac

onemorecell said:


> no - if you do that all the beer comes out the spunding valve (suched through the dip tube), and you don't notice until the whole thing is empty and it's all over your floor.
> 
> it's ******* devastating


Every other video and picture I’ve seen it goes on the gas post. I could be mistake on now to use it as I’ve never done it myself. Im wanting to pressure fermenting and transfer with the next brew.


----------



## onemorecell

Trippinonprozac said:


> Every other video and picture I’ve seen it goes on the gas post. I could be mistake on now to use it as I’ve never done it myself. Im wanting to pressure fermenting and transfer with the next brew.


it does go on the gas post
i'm saying this one is on the gas post - if it wasn't shit goes everywhere


----------



## Meddo

Trippinonprozac said:


> Every other video and picture I’ve seen it goes on the gas post. I could be mistake on now to use it as I’ve never done it myself. Im wanting to pressure fermenting and transfer with the next brew.


Without seeing the diptube or lack of underneath the cap you can't tell which post is which - the posts both accept gas or liquid disconnects so the fact that the blow-tie is attached to a liquid disconnect doesn't necessarily imply that it's on the liquid post.

It actually looks like it's behaved as intended - PRV released the pressure when the spunding valve clogged with krausen. That one genuinely is operator error - should have been using a blow-off tube or intermediate collection vessel to ensure the krausen didn't clog the spunding valve.


----------



## onemorecell

Meddo said:


> Without seeing the diptube or lack of underneath the cap you can't tell which post is which


you can definitely tell it isn't connected to a dip tube though

i've never used anything between fermenter + spunding except what is in this pic, what do you mean by intermediate vessel?


----------



## Meddo

onemorecell said:


> you can definitely tell it isn't connected to a dip tube though
> 
> i've never used anything between fermenter + spunding except what is in this pic, what do you mean by intermediate vessel?


Oh yeah logically you can tell which it's on, I meant you can't tell visually.

Intermediate vessel would be a pressure vessel like a keg - connect the FV gas post to the liquid post on the intermediate, and the spunding valve on the gas post of the intermediate. That way if krausen travels through the gas line it will collect in the bottom of the keg/intermediate while the spunding valve is high and dry - no danger of it getting clogged.

There might be a technical term for that intermediate vessel but I can't think of it off the top of my head.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Looking at the way it was set up, shouldn't the spunding valve come before the pressure gauge, with the Tee piece after with the pressure gauge on one side of the Tee piece and blow off on the other? The internals of the gauge will have copped a load of krausen in the guts. Also thats a hell of a lot of krausen for a pressure ferment, I found the krausen to be subdued under pressure.


----------



## Plyplema

The gauge is only measuring what's enclosed and as long as there's only 1 exit then the gauge can go anywhere before the valve. The T-piece can go any-which-way.

The beer looks to have come through the lid due to a poor seal and I don't think that's krausen as you can see where the high krausen mark settled. My money is on the brewer pulling the pressure release valve and letting gas flow out too fast causing it to foam up and then come out the poor seal and spunding valve..

I'll just add that I've found it pretty easy for my release valve to get stuck open slightly on mine.


----------



## Meddo

wide eyed and legless said:


> Looking at the way it was set up, shouldn't the spunding valve come before the pressure gauge, with the Tee piece after with the pressure gauge on one side of the Tee piece and blow off on the other? The internals of the gauge will have copped a load of krausen in the guts. Also thats a hell of a lot of krausen for a pressure ferment, I found the krausen to be subdued under pressure.


Nah, if you do it that way the gauge would just be reading atmospheric pressure. I had a similar fuckup using that arrangement on the weekend for back pressure while filling a keg with one of those silly flow "stopper" things from KL. Flow stopper stopped nothing and filled the valve and gauge instead. Then it was my own fuckup that I forgot that I'd removed the shutoff ball from the coupler and proceeded to dump 2L of beer on the floor when I pulled the coupler off the spear rather than just removing the beer line...


----------



## Grmblz

onemorecell said:


> you can definitely tell it isn't connected to a dip tube though
> 
> i've never used anything between fermenter + spunding except what is in this pic, what do you mean by intermediate vessel?


Gas post on fermenter connects to receiver post that has silicon tube attached to it which goes to the bottom of bottle, other receiver post connects to spunding valve, any liquid exiting the fermenter goes into bottle first (in this case a 1.25L pet) and only goes to spunding valve once the bottle is full. You vary the size of the receiver (bottle) to suit your needs. On larger volumes you can sub the bottle for a corny keg.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Meddo said:


> Nah, if you do it that way the gauge would just be reading atmospheric pressure. I had a similar fuckup using that arrangement on the weekend for back pressure while filling a keg with one of those silly flow "stopper" things from KL. Flow stopper stopped nothing and filled the valve and gauge instead. Then it was my own fuckup that I forgot that I'd removed the shutoff ball from the coupler and proceeded to dump 2L of beer on the floor when I pulled the coupler off the spear rather than just removing the beer line...


Yes your right it has got to be before the spunding valve, what Grmblz suggested to razz would be the best way, keep the krausen out of the gauge and the spunding valve. But surely there should not be that amount of krausen under pressure?


----------



## Grmblz

wide eyed and legless said:


> Yes your right it has got to be before the spunding valve, what Grmblz suggested to razz would be the best way, keep the krausen out of the gauge and the spunding valve. But surely there should not be that amount of krausen under pressure?


I had 23L in a 37L fermenter @ 10psi, filled my bottle and valve and put another Ltr or so onto the floor, I did overpitch due to attenuation concerns, it was a large RIS. Lesson learnt though, would probably be categorised as pilot error.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Grmblz said:


> I had 23L in a 37L fermenter @ 10psi, filled my bottle and valve and put another Ltr or so onto the floor, I did overpitch due to attenuation concerns, it was a large RIS. Lesson learnt though, would probably be categorised as pilot error.


Is that the pilot error of a peat digger?


----------



## Vic

T


Grmblz said:


> Gas post on fermenter connects to receiver post that has silicon tube attached to it which goes to the bottom of bottle, other receiver post connects to spunding valve, any liquid exiting the fermenter goes into bottle first (in this case a 1.25L pet) and only goes to spunding valve once the bottle is full. You vary the size of the receiver (bottle) to suit your needs. On larger volumes you can sub the bottle for a corny keg.


Tube does not need to go to the bottom of the bottle, a short 30mm tube will suffice, if the tube goes to the bottom then when fermentation is finished it is possible the contents of the bottle will be sucked back into the fermenter, when cold crashing it will be sucked back in. IMO just use a short 30MM tube just to make sure input does not meet output.


----------



## Plyplema

wide eyed and legless said:


> But surely there should not be that amount of krausen under pressure?



It's not krausen. It's foam from releasing pressure too fast. High krausen is at the 26L mark.


----------



## Vic

D


wide eyed and legless said:


> Yes your right it has got to be before the spunding valve, what Grmblz suggested to razz would be the best way, keep the krausen out of the gauge and the spunding valve. But surely there should not be that amount of krausen under pressure?


IMO the best way is gas out from fermenter to collection vessel, then to pressure gauge and spunding valve. That way no crud can enter either. May brewers start ferment at little or no pressure and then turn pressure up when fermentation is clearly active. It is possible to miss the time of rising activity and (if not using a collection vessel) krausen will enter the spunding valve and gauge. I know, this has happened to me. Initially no devastating issues. As fermentation subsides, the spunding valve may stick due the sticky sugary stuff inside and/or the crud now in the pressure gauge that has set resulting in wrong readings. In my case gauge reported 15PSI but gas was venting from PRV. Removing the gauge, the reading dropped slowly. Clearly blocked. Could this explain some of the exploding FZs?


----------



## Grmblz

Vic said:


> T
> Tube does not need to go to the bottom of the bottle, a short 30mm tube will suffice, if the tube goes to the bottom then when fermentation is finished it is possible the contents of the bottle will be sucked back into the fermenter, when cold crashing it will be sucked back in. IMO just use a short 30MM tube just to make sure input does not meet output.


Agreed, depending on process, I only have it connected during early fermentation, and certainly disconnect if crashing which I rarely do, I usually keg condition with a few points left, I should have mentioned that, thanks for making that clear to others not versed in the procedure.


----------



## Grmblz

wide eyed and legless said:


> Is that the pilot error of a peat digger?


Nope, no Gaelic blood here, pure mongrel, Viking, Norman, Roman, and whoever else invaded and left there sperm behind, Oh I'm forgetting US troops WW2, they talk about hybrid vigour, looking back at my old countrymen (been here 40yrs) I'm yet to be convinced.


----------



## awfulknauful

Has anyone got the V2 FermZilla, would love to know how that is performing, the original is sure plagued with problems.


----------



## Nullnvoid

Just kegged my 15th beer and 8th pressure ferment out of my Fermzilla. Once again worked a treat and had no issues. I was one of the first ones to get my hands on it.

Has worked spot on every time. The only **** up, was completely my fault, cannot blame the fermzilla and it was a simple error.

Out of all the fermzillas we only seem to hear about the issues and I really think they are few and far between. There must be thousands like me that have never had any problems. Never taken it apart and never had an issue.


----------



## awfulknauful

Looks like there are an equal number who are having issues, that's why I would like to hear some feedback about the V2.


----------



## Nullnvoid

awfulknauful said:


> Looks like there are an equal number who are having issues, that's why I would like to hear some feedback about the V2.



Proof on the equal numbers?


----------



## awfulknauful

Nullnvoid said:


> Proof on the equal numbers?


Proof on the "thousands" like you without a problem, and name them.


----------



## Nullnvoid

awfulknauful said:


> Proof on the "thousands" like you without a problem, and name them.



You are the nay sayer derailing the thread. Not me


----------



## awfulknauful

Why is it derailing the thread, the thread is about the FermZilla whether it be good or bad, you started the thread, you should have stated only good feed back required. Have a look on all the facebook pages they are full of negative remarks about the FermZilla. I got one too at the start, just wasn't merchantable quality. Nearly got caught with the long awaited Maltzilla, made my mind up now anything ending in Zilla is likely to be CRAP.


----------



## Vic

I have 3 FZs and after 40+ brews in these, no problems. Please advise what is the V2? No mention of a V2 on their web site.


----------



## awfulknauful

Vic said:


> I have 3 FZs and after 40+ brews in these, no problems. Please advise what is the V2? No mention of a V2 on their web site.


----------



## Nullnvoid

awfulknauful said:


>



That guy is an absolute toss pot. 

Can't watch anymore than about 10 seconds of his videos. 

I don't take any of his stories seriously.


----------



## Ferment8

Got one of the first fermzillas and 2 recent all rounders. All work as advertised. No dramas at all


----------



## malt and barley blues

I didn't realise they had a new one is it any better than the V1 or just as bad. Has he done a follow up video?


----------



## donald_trub

awfulknauful said:


> Looks like there are an equal number who are having issues, that's why I would like to hear some feedback about the V2.



You clearly have an agenda here. Kegland have thousands of happy customers. It would be nice if we had a sample size bigger than 2 for KegKing's equivalent, but we don]'t.

Why are you posting screenshots from both an iPhone and an Android phone? Who is feeding you images to post here? Keg King? I smell a rat here and it's obviously a coordinated effort between tweedle-dee, tweedle-dum and CEO Keg King. The constant petty sniping does nothing to help his business or make me want to shop there.



awfulknauful said:


> Seems every time one opens facebook there is a destroyed FermZilla, why don't they just call them in and go back to the drawing board.
> I think the only error the user makes is using the FermZilla as a pressure fermenter.
> View attachment 118235
> 
> View attachment 118236
> 
> View attachment 118237


----------



## onemorecell

awfulknauful said:


> Why is it derailing the thread, the thread is about the FermZilla whether it be good or bad, you started the thread, you should have stated only good feed back required. Have a look on all the facebook pages they are full of negative remarks about the FermZilla. I got one too at the start, just wasn't merchantable quality. Nearly got caught with the long awaited Maltzilla, made my mind up now anything ending in Zilla is likely to be CRAP.


people who are happy don't complain...


----------



## malt and barley blues

onemorecell said:


> people who are happy don't complain...


Hmmm, it must be those who are unhappy with their purchase who are complaining.


----------



## Ian Mackenzie

I Have a Coopers Draught ready to Keg after being in the Fermzilla for the past 9 days. My first try with the Fermzilla I have managed to keep it at an average temp of 23 Deg and the pressure between 10 and 12 psi. My question is what sort of pressure should I apply to the keg for carbonation. I will chill the keg before the transfer and then leave in the fridge. I do not have room in the fridge for the fermenter.


----------



## frosty3

awfulknauful said:


> Has anyone got the V2 FermZilla, would love to know how that is performing, the original is sure plagued with problems.
> View attachment 118269


Hey "awfulknauful" just wondering why the sudden interest in a fermzilla? If you are interested in purchasing one they are available online!! A quick google search will point you in that direction. However if you are looking for further reviews and opinions of home brewer youtubers please refer to these links and channels below:-

David Heath


Home brew network








The Home Brew Network


The Home Brew Network - Home Brewing Tips, Tricks and Reviews!




www.youtube.com





Beer n BBQ Larry








BEER-N-BBQ by Larry


This a cooking, home brewing, and wine making channel focused on things I love to eat and drink and how to make them yourself. Featured topics on my channel ...




www.youtube.com





Simple Home Brew








Simple Home Brew


This is an amatures look at home brewing. A home brewing channel that is down to earth and basic. A brew channel that gives you a basic understanding of home...




www.youtube.com






The list goes on. Just type into youtube "fermzilla" or "fermzilla review" and watch away!!

Happy youtubing!!!


----------



## malt and barley blues

frosty3 said:


> Hey "awfulknauful" just wondering why the sudden interest in a fermzilla? If you are interested in purchasing one they are available online!! A quick google search will point you in that direction. However if you are looking for further reviews and opinions of home brewer youtubers please refer to these links and channels below:-
> 
> David Heath
> 
> 
> Home brew network
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Home Brew Network
> 
> 
> The Home Brew Network - Home Brewing Tips, Tricks and Reviews!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.youtube.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beer n BBQ Larry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BEER-N-BBQ by Larry
> 
> 
> This a cooking, home brewing, and wine making channel focused on things I love to eat and drink and how to make them yourself. Featured topics on my channel ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.youtube.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Simple Home Brew
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Simple Home Brew
> 
> 
> This is an amatures look at home brewing. A home brewing channel that is down to earth and basic. A brew channel that gives you a basic understanding of home...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.youtube.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The list goes on. Just type into youtube "fermzilla" or "fermzilla review" and watch away!!
> 
> Happy youtubing!!!



Aren't they the old version?


----------



## Nullnvoid

malt and barley blues said:


> Aren't they the old version?


This coming from the person who just found out that there is apparently a new version


----------



## onemorecell

malt and barley blues said:


> Hmmm, it must be those who are unhappy with their purchase who are complaining.


no shit mate... but saying 1000 people complaining and no one saying they aren't complaining is a bonehead statement.

if you say "1000 people shouldn't need to complain" you'd have a point - and maybe even a good one. And you wouldn't be sitting there as some keyboard jockey out to play with their agenda.

**** me why is everyone who blindly and blatantly hates kegland is such a dickhead about it


----------



## malt and barley blues

Nullnvoid said:


> This coming from the person who just found out that there is apparently a new version


Of course I just saw the unboxing of the video of the new one easy to see they aren't the same.


onemorecell said:


> no shit mate... but saying 1000 people complaining and no one saying they aren't complaining is a bonehead statement.
> 
> if you say "1000 people shouldn't need to complain" you'd have a point - and maybe even a good one. And you wouldn't be sitting there as some keyboard jockey out to play with their agenda.
> 
> **** me why is everyone who blindly and blatantly hates kegland is such a dickhead about it


You are either missing a point or making one, does that mean that all those with the Fermentasaurus or any of its off spring are happier, cos that would look like they are, seeing as there are nil complaints about them.

Why do you think I hate Keg Land, I don't hate anyone, especially blindly and blatantly.


----------



## Fro-Daddy

malt and barley blues said:


> does that mean that all those with the Fermentasaurus or any of its off spring are happier, cos that would look like they are, seeing as there are nil complaints about them


There were complaints of leaky valves and difficult disassembly on the original. But I haven't seen one pop yet.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

awfulknauful said:


>



Actually I don't think that is a new one, it looks remarkably similar to one which was seen before the FermZilla shape was decided on. Some one put a photo of it draining next to a dumpster outside KL factory. It was before the FermZilla was released.
If there was a new one it would be advertised, I would imagine.
I think that is the 3rd one that KL has sent to Dr Hans to review, might be 3rd time lucky.


----------



## pharmaboy

Hi All - I have been chasing a really slow leak for a couple of brews, which I've finally figured out. This is on a recent All rounder which I bought for the singular reason that it seemed like it would be easiest of all options to make and keep clean (given how much the depth and small opening of kegs shits me to tears!).

Anyway, was holding pressure for a brew, but as soon as it was into settling phase (yeast had finished), it would lose pressure over night, from 12 psi down to 3 or so. 

Actual cause was carbonation caps - one was fixed by simply changing over to a SS one and hand tight, the other plastic one was tightening with an adjustable spanner (well as much as you can with plastic - which isnt much - about a quarter turn I'd guess)

Anyway, I'd recommend getting SS carb caps rather than the few dollars cheaper red plastic ones . Strangely the plastic ones work fine on PET coke bottles - possiby slightly thinner plastic on the tops of PET bottles.

happy brewing


----------



## mynameisrodney

I'm on my 5th brew with my FZ all rounder and been loving it. Doing closed transfers to my kegs now and I find with the all rounder it is easy to get every last drop out. As the FZ is nearly empty I rotate it on the stand so the beer pools on one side, very little wastage. A few comments though:

It seems weird that the vessel is rated to 2.4bar but the prv is 2.5. So if you leave it without a spunding valve attached (or one set too high). you are going outside the rated working range. I know the difference is tiny, and most likely due to 2.5bar prvs being readily available, but it does make me question why they couldn't rate it at 2.5bar. 

I find the lid difficult to get off. the first time was user error, i tightened the lock ring up too tight. But after this the flat lid needs a lot of levering to get out, and yes I do use keg lube.

Also not a fan of the plastic carbonation caps. They seem to be harder to get disconnects on/off than the stainless ones.

Cheers,
Chris


----------



## frosty3

malt and barley blues said:


> Aren't they the old version?


I tried to include links to reviews of the Fermzilla as a unit. Positive, neutral and negative. As he seemed quite interested in finding out if the unit was right for him. In terms of “version 2” everybody’s favourite doctor never mentions this but if you are referring to the units that now ship with lube, carry handle, bigger seal, etc if you have a look at (off the top of my head) simple home brewing and the home brewing network they specifically have Fermzilla’s with these feature. A search of YouTube for “Fermzilla v2” will yield no results and KegLand does not even sell a “v2”. So best dig a little deeper at YouTube university to find out more.


----------



## Gollywog

As the FZ is nearly empty I rotate it on the stand so the beer pools on one side, very little wastage. 

Thanks Rodney, I was coming on here for two reasons:
1) to read the constant sniping and bitching.
2) to find out if anyone else is wasting as much beer as I am. Turns out the solution is super simple and i should have thought of it! Will use it on my next batch.


----------



## malt and barley blues

frosty3 said:


> I tried to include links to reviews of the Fermzilla as a unit. Positive, neutral and negative. As he seemed quite interested in finding out if the unit was right for him. In terms of “version 2” everybody’s favourite doctor never mentions this but if you are referring to the units that now ship with lube, carry handle, bigger seal, etc if you have a look at (off the top of my head) simple home brewing and the home brewing network they specifically have Fermzilla’s with these feature. A search of YouTube for “Fermzilla v2” will yield no results and KegLand does not even sell a “v2”. So best dig a little deeper at YouTube university to find out more.


Best you watch the Dr Hans video, clearly two different stands and tanks.


----------



## Grmblz

Nullnvoid said:


> That guy is an absolute toss pot.
> 
> Can't watch anymore than about 10 seconds of his videos.
> 
> I don't take any of his stories seriously.


+1 Pushing his own products whilst "reviewing" someone elses, he's up himself, and should have been a politician, and we all know they can be trusted.


----------



## soreba

Its not a V2, there were some updates made to the Fermzilla around the time the all rounders came out... one update was the top is more rounded to prevent cracking compared to the original units.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

malt and barley blues said:


> Best you watch the Dr Hans video, clearly two different stands and tanks.



The changes would make it a version 1.5 at best. I would expect more fundamental revisions for it to be called a V2 which is probably why they haven't named it as such..

Still waiting for Dr Hans to do a review of the G3... so far all I ever see is it sitting in the background...


----------



## wide eyed and legless

soreba said:


> Its not a V2, there were some updates made to the Fermzilla around the time the all rounders came out... one update was the top is more rounded to prevent cracking compared to the original units.


I think that shows they are addressing the problem.


----------



## frosty3

malt and barley blues said:


> Best you watch the Dr Hans video, clearly two different stands and tanks.


I’m sorry you clearly missed the sarcasm in my long winded responses towards people that have no intention of using the product in which this thread is about. I have watched the video several times and at no point did the good doctor make mention of a “v2” in fact if we study the opening scene we can observe the words “Fermzilla v1.?”
So with out any clear definition of a “v2” how can one definitively argue that other youtubers (the ones I quoted before) are not using the same unit as shown in the doctors video? They seem to have the same features so I guess one can only assume they are the same. I will attempt to contacted all YouTube party’s involved asking them to send there units in for forensic examination to determine once and for all if they are in fact the same units or not.
I will keep you posted!


----------



## Grmblz

frosty3 said:


> I’m sorry you clearly missed the sarcasm in my long winded responses towards people that have no intention of using the product in which this thread is about. I have watched the video several times and at no point did the good doctor make mention of a “v2” in fact if we study the opening scene we can observe the words “Fermzilla v1.?”
> So with out any clear definition of a “v2” how can one definitively argue that other youtubers (the ones I quoted before) are not using the same unit as shown in the doctors video? They seem to have the same features so I guess one can only assume they are the same. I will attempt to contacted all YouTube party’s involved asking them to send there units in for forensic examination to determine once and for all if they are in fact the same units or not.
> I will keep you posted!


I assume your comparison of said units will be rigorous, and demand they be delivered full of actively fermenting beer, after which you will post a vid on Youtube extolling the virtues of your latest kit beer whilst guzzling some obscure brew, and prancing around like an excited teenage schoolgirl going on her first date.


----------



## Nullnvoid

frosty3 said:


> I’m sorry you clearly missed the sarcasm in my long winded responses towards people that have no intention of using the product in which this thread is about. I have watched the video several times and at no point did the good doctor make mention of a “v2” in fact if we study the opening scene we can observe the words “Fermzilla v1.?”
> So with out any clear definition of a “v2” how can one definitively argue that other youtubers (the ones I quoted before) are not using the same unit as shown in the doctors video? They seem to have the same features so I guess one can only assume they are the same. I will attempt to contacted all YouTube party’s involved asking them to send there units in for forensic examination to determine once and for all if they are in fact the same units or not.
> I will keep you posted!



Worst. Doctor. Ever!


----------



## [email protected]

awfulknauful said:


> Has anyone got the V2 FermZilla, would love to know how that is performing, the original is sure plagued with problems.
> 
> 
> awfulknauful said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone got the V2 FermZilla, would love to know how that is performing, the original is sure plagued with problems.
> View attachment 118269
> 
> I have a 27L fermazilla
> 8 brews
> no issues
Click to expand...


----------



## Grmblz

You might want to change your user name to something other than your email address.

I've got a Fermentasaurus v.1 37L lost count of the brews through it both atmospheric and pressurised, and absolutely no problems, BUT! the Fermzilla seems to be a different beast, they've undoubtedly tried to improve the v.1 and on the face of it some of the changes may seem like a good idea, reduced volume for less head space (see thoughts) larger opening to facilitate cleaning and redesigned collection bottle/valve with several advantages, unfortunately the "improvements" have led to some unforeseen issues, some have suffered from cracks in the main body, difficulties with the new bigger lid (sealing and then removing) removal and replacement of the bigger valve, and exploding/cracked ports on the collection vessels. Now some of this can be attributed to user error, but it worries me that the same users didn't have these issues with the original, so what exactly is going on here? I note they have changed the shape of the main vessel but not made an announcement to that effect (probably don't want a shtload of returns) will they change the collection bottle? Who knows, but if I were looking at buying one I would definitely wait until they released a v.2 and actually called it that rather than make incremental changes to address issues as they arise without telling anyone.

Just a thought, the collection bottles are brittle unlike PET, so close the valve whilst active and bang, similar effect with the v.1 just not as potentially dangerous because it's PET, but why are the PET bodies exploding? Is it possible that with increasing hopping rates especially during fermentation, and particularly with pellets, that the reduced volume from the v.1 saurus @ 37L to the v.2 zilla @ 27L is increasing the number of PRV's that are getting clogged with hop residue, this would happen at high krausen when the yeast engine is flat out and has the pedal to the metal, it would be a big effort for a 23L brew to hit the PRV in a 37L, but a 27L not so much, and it takes a lot less CO2 to burst a 27L than a 37L, is this an "improvement" that has had unintended consequences? The solution of course is a blow off tube but how do you maintain pressure (if that is the aim) I've posted elsewhere on pressurised blow off tubes/vessels (look at "spunding valve") just make sure you remove the poppet from the post or that will clog as easily as a PRV. But how many newish brewers know about blow off's? Just my thoughts/musings, and I may be barking mad up the wrong tree, but perhaps KL would be better off sending some test units out into the real world into the hands of noobs rather than giggling tossers like Dr Nut Job.

I'm sure this will be seen by some as a baseless attack on KL (looking at you one cell) despite me praising their saurus, it is not, it's just my thoughts on what is a perplexing series of issues with one of their products, and my advice (see wait for v.2) to those seeking to purchase it. I am seriously looking at buying another one (saurus) but unfortunately they've been superseded, the closest thing to the original is KK's v.3, I'm not completely sold on the plunger valve but will keep an open mind, @ $10 the difference the price is irrelevant but 27L v 35L, the smaller opening without the sealing/opening issues, and that small 500ml pet collection bottle ideal for yeast harvesting (I've got 3 of them) I'll stick with a saurus until something better comes along.


----------



## f00b4r

Grmblz said:


> You might want to change your user name to something other than your email address.
> 
> I've got a Fermentasaurus v.1 37L lost count of the brews through it both atmospheric and pressurised, and absolutely no problems, BUT! the Fermzilla seems to be a different beast, they've undoubtedly tried to improve the v.1 and on the face of it some of the changes may seem like a good idea, reduced volume for less head space (see thoughts) larger opening to facilitate cleaning and redesigned collection bottle/valve with several advantages, unfortunately the "improvements" have led to some unforeseen issues, some have suffered from cracks in the main body, difficulties with the new bigger lid (sealing and then removing) removal and replacement of the bigger valve, and exploding/cracked ports on the collection vessels. Now some of this can be attributed to user error, but it worries me that the same users didn't have these issues with the original, so what exactly is going on here? I note they have changed the shape of the main vessel but not made an announcement to that effect (probably don't want a shtload of returns) will they change the collection bottle? Who knows, but if I were looking at buying one I would definitely wait until they released a v.2 and actually called it that rather than make incremental changes to address issues as they arise without telling anyone.
> 
> Just a thought, the collection bottles are brittle unlike PET, so close the valve whilst active and bang, similar effect with the v.1 just not as potentially dangerous because it's PET, but why are the PET bodies exploding? Is it possible that with increasing hopping rates especially during fermentation, and particularly with pellets, that the reduced volume from the v.1 saurus @ 37L to the v.2 zilla @ 27L is increasing the number of PRV's that are getting clogged with hop residue, this would happen at high krausen when the yeast engine is flat out and has the pedal to the metal, it would be a big effort for a 23L brew to hit the PRV in a 37L, but a 27L not so much, and it takes a lot less CO2 to burst a 27L than a 37L, is this an "improvement" that has had unintended consequences? The solution of course is a blow off tube but how do you maintain pressure (if that is the aim) I've posted elsewhere on pressurised blow off tubes/vessels (look at "spunding valve") just make sure you remove the poppet from the post or that will clog as easily as a PRV. But how many newish brewers know about blow off's? Just my thoughts/musings, and I may be barking mad up the wrong tree, but perhaps KL would be better off sending some test units out into the real world into the hands of noobs rather than giggling tossers like Dr Nut Job.
> 
> I'm sure this will be seen by some as a baseless attack on KL (looking at you one cell) despite me praising their saurus, it is not, it's just my thoughts on what is a perplexing series of issues with one of their products, and my advice (see wait for v.2) to those seeking to purchase it. I am seriously looking at buying another one (saurus) but unfortunately they've been superseded, the closest thing to the original is KK's v.3, I'm not completely sold on the plunger valve but will keep an open mind, @ $10 the difference the price is irrelevant but 27L v 35L, the smaller opening without the sealing/opening issues, and that small 500ml pet collection bottle ideal for yeast harvesting (I've got 3 of them) I'll stick with a saurus until something better comes along.



Be careful, it looks like you are actually derailing the slanging match into some reasoned thought and discussion 
I have a Fermentasaurus v1 and the dump valve assembly is garbage and I have jammed it twice (you could argue user error but it is very easy to do if not paying close attention and use it sporadically), to the extent this time that I am going to probably have to hacksaw it off and replace it (I have sourced a replacement one for a reasonable price thanks to a kindly supplier). 
I don’t think either design has really got there 100% yet but will be getting an All Rounder to have a play around with and compare (you Aussies are spoilt with the prices though as they tend to double by the time they get to the EU, although I am not sure why this should be so with the stuff shipped direct from China). I was planning on getting the Fermzilla but was waiting for the high temperature body to come out but I think the All Rounder suits my needs for now, as it is very easy to overbuild starters anyway so the dump valve just becomes another thing to clean (this seems to be true of both the competing models after seeing pictures in the wild of both - I will probably still look at getting the G3 upgrade IF it comes in at a reasonable price in the EU, if not I will not bother e.g. the snub nose is getting sold here for stupid money so it will never sell in quantity).
One thing I have not seen mentioned though that I find great about the Fermzilla is that you can buy spare bodies in 27L/35L/60L size (yes they do a 35L in the EU) and then just use the appropriate body with the other parts to easily change your brew length (ok you will need to replace the silicone hose for the floating dip tube but that is peanuts and takes seconds). It may also be true of the Fermentasaurus 3, but I don't think becuase IIRC the neck size is different so the parts are not interchangeable.


----------



## Grmblz

f00b4r said:


> Be careful, it looks like you are actually derailing the slanging match into some reasoned thought and discussion



My work here is done.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Grmblz said:


> You might want to change your user name to something other than your email address.
> 
> I've got a Fermentasaurus v.1 37L lost count of the brews through it both atmospheric and pressurised, and absolutely no problems, BUT! the Fermzilla seems to be a different beast, they've undoubtedly tried to improve the v.1 and on the face of it some of the changes may seem like a good idea, reduced volume for less head space (see thoughts) larger opening to facilitate cleaning and redesigned collection bottle/valve with several advantages, unfortunately the "improvements" have led to some unforeseen issues, some have suffered from cracks in the main body, difficulties with the new bigger lid (sealing and then removing) removal and replacement of the bigger valve, and exploding/cracked ports on the collection vessels. Now some of this can be attributed to user error, but it worries me that the same users didn't have these issues with the original, so what exactly is going on here? I note they have changed the shape of the main vessel but not made an announcement to that effect (probably don't want a shtload of returns) will they change the collection bottle? Who knows, but if I were looking at buying one I would definitely wait until they released a v.2 and actually called it that rather than make incremental changes to address issues as they arise without telling anyone.
> 
> Just a thought, the collection bottles are brittle unlike PET, so close the valve whilst active and bang, similar effect with the v.1 just not as potentially dangerous because it's PET, but why are the PET bodies exploding? Is it possible that with increasing hopping rates especially during fermentation, and particularly with pellets, that the reduced volume from the v.1 saurus @ 37L to the v.2 zilla @ 27L is increasing the number of PRV's that are getting clogged with hop residue, this would happen at high krausen when the yeast engine is flat out and has the pedal to the metal, it would be a big effort for a 23L brew to hit the PRV in a 37L, but a 27L not so much, and it takes a lot less CO2 to burst a 27L than a 37L, is this an "improvement" that has had unintended consequences? The solution of course is a blow off tube but how do you maintain pressure (if that is the aim) I've posted elsewhere on pressurised blow off tubes/vessels (look at "spunding valve") just make sure you remove the poppet from the post or that will clog as easily as a PRV. But how many newish brewers know about blow off's? Just my thoughts/musings, and I may be barking mad up the wrong tree, but perhaps KL would be better off sending some test units out into the real world into the hands of noobs rather than giggling tossers like Dr Nut Job.
> 
> I'm sure this will be seen by some as a baseless attack on KL (looking at you one cell) despite me praising their saurus, it is not, it's just my thoughts on what is a perplexing series of issues with one of their products, and my advice (see wait for v.2) to those seeking to purchase it. I am seriously looking at buying another one (saurus) but unfortunately they've been superseded, the closest thing to the original is KK's v.3, I'm not completely sold on the plunger valve but will keep an open mind, @ $10 the difference the price is irrelevant but 27L v 35L, the smaller opening without the sealing/opening issues, and that small 500ml pet collection bottle ideal for yeast harvesting (I've got 3 of them) I'll stick with a saurus until something better comes along.


If you want the original Saurus buy a snub nose drill the bottom and buy the kit, works out cheaper.


----------



## Grmblz

wide eyed and legless said:


> If you want the original Saurus buy a snub nose drill the bottom and buy the kit, works out cheaper.


Yep, and how many do you drill before you get it right? I'm no numpty and have every hole saw you can imagine, diamonds included, but that thing is an accident waiting to happen, if you have a fool proof way of doing it please share because I'll bet a pound to a piece of shit I'm not the only one.


----------



## f00b4r

Grmblz said:


> Yep, and how many do you drill before you get it right? I'm no numpty and have every hole saw you can imagine, diamonds included, but that thing is an accident waiting to happen, if you have a fool proof way of doing it please share because I'll bet a pound to a piece of shit I'm not the only one.



It is also why it would be interesting to see a video on someone doing it to use the G3 upgrade kit. So far one person has described it but there really isn’t any detail on it.


----------



## Grmblz

+1 ^ Let's see a video of how easy it is! Pretty please.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Grmblz said:


> Yep, and how many do you drill before you get it right? I'm no numpty and have every hole saw you can imagine, diamonds included, but that thing is an accident waiting to happen, if you have a fool proof way of doing it please share because I'll bet a pound to a piece of shit I'm not the only one.


Early in the release of the snubnose, someone put up a post he bought the 2 for $140 or whatever the deal was, bought the kits for the Fermantasaurus and ended up with a substantial saving of two fermentasauri.
You probably would need a drill press, I wouldn't like to do it by hand.


f00b4r said:


> It is also why it would be interesting to see a video on someone doing it to use the G3 upgrade kit. So far one person has described it but there really isn’t any detail on it.


Now that would be a little tricky, but I will have a crack at it if I can pick up a reject.


----------



## CKK

Grmblz said:


> +1 ^ Let's see a video of how easy it is! Pretty please.


We do not recommend someone drilling a snubnose unless they are really good with special kit. We use a highly modified tungsten head in a drill press with a holding jig. The gen 3 upgrade kit is for those with the original FS that already have the hole. Basically a Dremel is used to just enlarge the hole by a few millimetres. I think we might already have a short video on this and I will see if we can put that up. The early adopters out there who trialled this seemed to have no problems to get this done in any case.


----------



## Grmblz

^ Yep, pretty much what I thought


----------



## awfulknauful

donald_trub said:


> You clearly have an agenda here. Kegland have thousands of happy customers. It would be nice if we had a sample size bigger than 2 for KegKing's equivalent, but we don]'t.
> 
> Why are you posting screenshots from both an iPhone and an Android phone? Who is feeding you images to post here? Keg King? I smell a rat here and it's obviously a coordinated effort between tweedle-dee, tweedle-dum and CEO Keg King. The constant petty sniping does nothing to help his business or make me want to shop there.


I would like to think there may be thousands of happy customers, but looking on the face book sites in the FermZilla user groups there are a lot of unhappy customers, if the V2 is a success all well and good, and I will call it a V2 as surely the biggest difference is in the shape so a new mould must have been made at considerable expense for tooling.
I expect you are someone who likes conspiracy theories, I get pictures emailed to me I don't care if they are taken with an android iphone or Brownie box.
I am not in cohorts with anyone, I travel around Oz going to machinery auctions and buy and sell. Some to happy customers on this site, best buy so far is a semi auto canning machine sold to Ballarat Guy I think he is more than happy with the price he paid but not with the ability to buy cans, if anyone can help him out I am sure he would appreciate it.


----------



## Ballaratguy

awfulknauful said:


> I would like to think there may be thousands of happy customers, but looking on the face book sites in the FermZilla user groups there are a lot of unhappy customers, if the V2 is a success all well and good, and I will call it a V2 as surely the biggest difference is in the shape so a new mould must have been made at considerable expense for tooling.
> I expect you are someone who likes conspiracy theories, I get pictures emailed to me I don't care if they are taken with an android iphone or Brownie box.
> I am not in cohorts with anyone, I travel around Oz going to machinery auctions and buy and sell. Some to happy customers on this site, best buy so far is a semi auto canning machine sold to Ballarat Guy I think he is more than happy with the price he paid but not with the ability to buy cans, if anyone can help him out I am sure he would appreciate it.


Yeah thanks for the mention.
Yes I am extremely happy with the purchase of the canning machine and the price
And yes I would love to be able to source cans at a cheaper price. I’m currently buying Kegland 500ml cans as they are the cheapest (per ml) to purchase
I’d love to be able to get 375 ml cans but I cannot afford to by the Visy minimum amount (4000 cans I think) and also I don’t have the room to store them.
Grant in SE Melb. Will sell them but freight makes them not worthwhile (as I’m in Ballarat)


----------



## Vic

Ian Mackenzie said:


> I Have a Coopers Draught ready to Keg after being in the Fermzilla for the past 9 days. My first try with the Fermzilla I have managed to keep it at an average temp of 23 Deg and the pressure between 10 and 12 psi. My question is what sort of pressure should I apply to the keg for carbonation. I will chill the keg before the transfer and then leave in the fridge. I do not have room in the fridge for the fermenter.


AS your beer is already partially carbonated, try 40PSI and shake the keg for a few minutes. Reduce to 30PSI and leave for about 5 hours. Reduce to serving pressure and an hour or so, pour a beer. If still not enough carb, raise pressure to 30PSI for a few more hours. You will soon get the hang of it. There are online tools for calculating "set and forget" carbonation settings but these are not much use if your beer is already partially carbonated and you want to quickly do a forced carb.


----------



## Ian Mackenzie

Vic said:


> AS your beer is already partially carbonated, try 40PSI and shake the keg for a few minutes. Reduce to 30PSI and leave for about 5 hours. Reduce to serving pressure and an hour or so, pour a beer. If still not enough carb, raise pressure to 30PSI for a few more hours. You will soon get the hang of it. There are online tools for calculating "set and forget" carbonation settings but these are not much use if your beer is already partially carbonated and you want to quickly do a forced carb.


Thanks for that


----------



## Grmblz

Ian Mackenzie said:


> Thanks for that


If your beer is at 12psi it's already pretty much carbonated, it's easy to add a bit of carbonation but a pain if you over do it. 
What's your serving pressure? If it's 12-15psi then just connect gas at that pressure as you chill, once chilled do a test pour, if it's a bit flat then do as Vic says but in little steps, it's remarkably easy to over carbonate, and then it's a right royal pita.


----------



## Vic

Grmblz said:


> If your beer is at 12psi it's already pretty much carbonated, it's easy to add a bit of carbonation but a pain if you over do it.
> What's your serving pressure? If it's 12-15psi then just connect gas at that pressure as you chill, once chilled do a test pour, if it's a bit flat then do as Vic says but in little steps, it's remarkably easy to over carbonate, and then it's a right royal pita.


That is as long as you are cooling the beer to about 2C. If you’re warm conditioning then it’s different.


----------



## pauly

Grmblz said:


> If your beer is at 12psi it's already pretty much carbonated, it's easy to add a bit of carbonation but a pain if you over do it.
> What's your serving pressure? If it's 12-15psi then just connect gas at that pressure as you chill, once chilled do a test pour, if it's a bit flat then do as Vic says but in little steps, it's remarkably easy to over carbonate, and then it's a right royal pita.


Unfortunately 12PSI at 20c works out at about 1PSI at 5c. 

@Ian Mackenzie if you have no need to drink the beer immediately, then transfer it to the keg, put it in the fridge, and just apply it at 12PSI for a few weeks. The coopers kit will probably benefit from a few weeks of sitting/cooling before drinking it. It's super easy to over carb a beer when force carbonating, but very easy to just let the beer absorb the co2 over a few weeks.

If you haven't already transferred it Gash at the home brew network has some good videos on enclosed transfers from FZ to a keg.

cheers, good luck!


----------



## Grmblz

pauly said:


> Unfortunately 12PSI at 20c works out at about 1PSI at 5c.


Yep, which is why I said hook it up to 15psi as you chill, and use Vic's method if it's still a bit flat, I don't know of many keggers happy to wait a few weeks.


----------



## theSeekerr

pauly said:


> Unfortunately 12PSI at 20c works out at about 1PSI at 5c.



No it doesn't?

12 psig at 20C is 26.7psia at 293.15K
5C is 278.15K

The absolute pressure will reduce proportionally to the absolute temperature. (278.15/293.15) * 26.7 = 25.3 psia = 10.63 psig

In reality you'll see it read a tiny bit lower than that after cold crash - the increased solubility of CO2 in cold beer will see some of it enter solution, and there's a tiny bit of volume change attributable to the contraction of the liquid as it cools. All the same, you cold crash a beer at 12 psig you're going to be seeing 9+ PSI, not "about 1PSI".


----------



## Vic

theSeekerr said:


> No it doesn't?
> 
> 12 psig at 20C is 26.7psia at 293.15K
> 5C is 278.15K
> 
> The absolute pressure will reduce proportionally to the absolute temperature. (278.15/293.15) * 26.7 = 25.3 psia = 10.63 psig
> 
> In reality you'll see it read a tiny bit lower than that after cold crash - the increased solubility of CO2 in cold beer will see some of it enter solution, and there's a tiny bit of volume change attributable to the contraction of the liquid as it cools. All the same, you cold crash a beer at 12 psig you're going to be seeing 9+ PSI, not "about 1PSI".


Very close to my observations, I have not done the calculations but a Kolsh still in the fermenter started slow ramp over 24 days from 17C to 2C. At 17C pressure was 12PSI, today at 2C it is as 7PSI. A sample shows considerable carbonation but it will need more.


----------



## pauly

Grmblz said:


> Yep, which is why I said hook it up to 15psi as you chill, and use Vic's method if it's still a bit flat, I don't know of many keggers happy to wait a few weeks.


sorry, I must have completely mis-read your comment!


----------



## pauly

theSeekerr said:


> No it doesn't?
> 
> 12 psig at 20C is 26.7psia at 293.15K
> 5C is 278.15K
> 
> The absolute pressure will reduce proportionally to the absolute temperature. (278.15/293.15) * 26.7 = 25.3 psia = 10.63 psig
> 
> In reality you'll see it read a tiny bit lower than that after cold crash - the increased solubility of CO2 in cold beer will see some of it enter solution, and there's a tiny bit of volume change attributable to the contraction of the liquid as it cools. All the same, you cold crash a beer at 12 psig you're going to be seeing 9+ PSI, not "about 1PSI".



I use this chart, and as I read it 12PSI gives me ~1.5 volumes of CO2 at 20C, which works out to ~1PSI at 2C. I am happy to be corrected if I am reading the chart wrong, however I pressure ferment at 10PSI at around 20C, and when I cold crash the FZ to 2C my gauge goes down to 2/3PSI. I have done one ferment at 25PSI and then after cold crashing the gauge was at 10PSI.

Again, happy to be corrected if I am misunderstanding the chart, or if the science is wrong.


----------



## Grmblz

pauly said:


> sorry, I must have completely mis-read your comment!


No problem mate, and thank you to our learned friends ^^ for the science, I'm not particularly scientific and happy to bow to superior knowledge, but I do know what works in some instances, and if my simplistic approach (useful for people just getting into it) can be of assistance then so be it.
Cheers G


----------



## Ian Mackenzie

Thanks for all that info everyone and also the chart pauly.


----------



## theSeekerr

pauly said:


> I use this chart, and as I read it 12PSI gives me ~1.5 volumes of CO2 at 20C, which works out to ~1PSI at 2C. I am happy to be corrected if I am reading the chart wrong, however I pressure ferment at 10PSI at around 20C, and when I cold crash the FZ to 2C my gauge goes down to 2/3PSI. I have done one ferment at 25PSI and then after cold crashing the gauge was at 10PSI.
> 
> Again, happy to be corrected if I am misunderstanding the chart, or if the science is wrong.



You're not wrong. The confusion arises because we're comparing apples and oranges - headspace equilibrium pressure for a given level of carbonation vs behaviour of gas at different temperatures. The two physical phenomena don't react to temperature changes in the same way. Furthermore, the carbonation level takes hours or days to settle on a final value, while the drop in pressure proportional to temperature takes place more or less instantaneously - I think it's this second point that's causing some confusion.

If you take a beer that has sat at 12 PSI at 20C for long enough to reach equilibrium then yes, it will be carbonated to 1.5 volumes.

If you cold-crash it the equilibrium changes, but the total amount of gas in the container does not

For argument's sake, let's imagine a 27L FermZilla with 20L of beer and 7L headspace which has been spunded at 12 PSI @ 21C, and let's round the resulting 1.49 volumes CO2 to 3g/L

So in total the container has:
3g/L * 20L = 60g dissolved CO2
+ 7L @ 26.7 psia @ 294.15K CO2 = 0.5269 moles = 23.2g CO2 gas
= 83.2g total CO2

Now let's cold-crash that to 2C / 275.15K

If we could crash-chill instantly, then in that instant we'd still have 3g/L = 60g dissolved CO2 in the beer, and we'd have headspace pressure of
26.7 psia * (275.15 K / 294.15 K ) = 25 psia = 10.3 psig , so that's our upper bound on pressure and lower bound on carbonation.

Conversely, if all the CO2 dissolved in the beer (0 psi absolute, or -14.7 psi gauge!) you'd have 83.2 / 20 = 4.16g/L ~= 2.08 volumes CO2, so there's the upper bound on carbonation and lower bound on pressure.

The equilibrium must exist between those figures. The relevant part of the Carbonation chart:





Where those values at 2C are for pressures of 0-6 psi gauge.

Using the equations we can work out what the headspace pressure would be for any level of dissolved CO2. So I pulled out Excel and did that, and here's the relevant region:






At 1.72 vols, the chart says 2 psi, and I calculate we only have enough CO2 for 0.8 psi in the headspace, so it's not quite that high.

Conversely, to get down to 1 psi in the headspace I calculate the beer would have to have dissolved 1.71 vols, a bit more than the 1.62 vols indicated by the chart as the equilibrium for that pressure.

Thus we know the true value exists in between those pairs of figures - between 1-2 psi and 1.69 - 1.72 volumes of CO2

So you're absolutely correct - on a long enough time scale, you'd expect a fermenter cold-crashed from 12 psi at 21C down to 2C to settle a bit below 2 psi.
Conversely, on a short timescale I'd expect a fermenter just recently crashed from 12 psi at 21C down to 2C to be reading a bit less than 10 psi, gradually approaching 2 psi over several more days.

I really hope that's helpful because it took ages to write up.


----------



## Ian Mackenzie

theSeekerr said:


> You're not wrong. The confusion arises because we're comparing apples and oranges - headspace equilibrium pressure for a given level of carbonation vs behaviour of gas at different temperatures. The two physical phenomena don't react to temperature changes in the same way. Furthermore, the carbonation level takes hours or days to settle on a final value, while the drop in pressure proportional to temperature takes place more or less instantaneously - I think it's this second point that's causing some confusion.
> 
> If you take a beer that has sat at 12 PSI at 20C for long enough to reach equilibrium then yes, it will be carbonated to 1.5 volumes.
> 
> If you cold-crash it the equilibrium changes, but the total amount of gas in the container does not
> 
> For argument's sake, let's imagine a 27L FermZilla with 20L of beer and 7L headspace which has been spunded at 12 PSI @ 21C, and let's round the resulting 1.49 volumes CO2 to 3g/L
> 
> So in total the container has:
> 3g/L * 20L = 60g dissolved CO2
> + 7L @ 26.7 psia @ 294.15K CO2 = 0.5269 moles = 23.2g CO2 gas
> = 83.2g total CO2
> 
> Now let's cold-crash that to 2C / 275.15K
> 
> If we could crash-chill instantly, then in that instant we'd still have 3g/L = 60g dissolved CO2 in the beer, and we'd have headspace pressure of
> 26.7 psia * (275.15 K / 294.15 K ) = 25 psia = 10.3 psig , so that's our upper bound on pressure and lower bound on carbonation.
> 
> Conversely, if all the CO2 dissolved in the beer (0 psi absolute, or -14.7 psi gauge!) you'd have 83.2 / 20 = 4.16g/L ~= 2.08 volumes CO2, so there's the upper bound on carbonation and lower bound on pressure.
> 
> The equilibrium must exist between those figures. The relevant part of the Carbonation chart:
> View attachment 118310
> 
> Where those values at 2C are for pressures of 0-6 psi gauge.
> 
> Using the equations we can work out what the headspace pressure would be for any level of dissolved CO2. So I pulled out Excel and did that, and here's the relevant region:
> 
> View attachment 118309
> 
> 
> At 1.72 vols, the chart says 2 psi, and I calculate we only have enough CO2 for 0.8 psi in the headspace, so it's not quite that high.
> 
> Conversely, to get down to 1 psi in the headspace I calculate the beer would have to have dissolved 1.71 vols, a bit more than the 1.62 vols indicated by the chart as the equilibrium for that pressure.
> 
> Thus we know the true value exists in between those pairs of figures - between 1-2 psi and 1.69 - 1.72 volumes of CO2
> 
> So you're absolutely correct - on a long enough time scale, you'd expect a fermenter cold-crashed from 12 psi at 21C down to 2C to settle a bit below 2 psi.
> Conversely, on a short timescale I'd expect a fermenter just recently crashed from 12 psi at 21C down to 2C to be reading a bit less than 10 psi, gradually approaching 2 psi over several more days.
> 
> I really hope that's helpful because it took ages to write up.


Thanks the seekerr for the time you have taken to explain in detail the answer to my question. I think I get the basic idea. and practice will make perfect.


----------



## pauly

@theSeekerr I appreciate the write up, I did think the headspace of the FZ would contribute somewhat but I didn't expect it to add so much CO2. I normally cold crash for 2-3 days due to life getting in the way of brewing, so that explains the PSI readings I see.

I serve a bit warmer and flatter than most, 7C and 10PSI in the kegerator, so it looks like I get almost all of the initial carbing from the headspace CO2, which is kind on my gas bottle.

Again, thanks for the writeup.


----------



## Nullnvoid

Another successful batch with no issues.

What am I doing wrong, dag nammit!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Nullnvoid said:


> Another successful batch with no issues.
> 
> What am I doing wrong, dag nammit!


So the 9th PF, early days yet.


----------



## Nullnvoid

wide eyed and legless said:


> So the 9th PF, early days yet.


And 16th ferment in the Fermzilla


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Nullnvoid said:


> And 16th ferment in the Fermzilla


Are you counting this one.


----------



## Nullnvoid

wide eyed and legless said:


> Are you counting this one.
> View attachment 118326



Yep. That was still successful. Beer was made. 

That was one of my first and my own stupid fault. In a way the Fermzilla performed admirably and vented because of what I did wrong. 

I now know what to do and it works. Every. Single. Time.


----------



## malt and barley blues

I think its luck of the draw, this one blew at 10 PSI first time he used it. Simple pressure testing would eliminate all this.


----------



## Grok

Has anyone noticed this happening in their FZ.
The plastic has lost its shiny smooth surface in most places except near what look like the injection points (x4). It looks and feels like beer stone coating being quite rough, you can scrape some of it off, but it doesn't get back to smooth & shiny. Upon close inspection, the surface is badly pitted. Since these photos were taken, I have tried to smooth it off with fine grit wet&dry, it reduce it a bit, but not much, and also tried to buff with a buffing mop wheel for plastic polishing, and once again, a little better, but it's not the answer. I still have a rough non smooth non shiny surface, and not to keen about the harbouring bacteria potential.
*Is this a plastic quality problem?*


----------



## Ferment8

Grok said:


> Has anyone noticed this happening in their FZ.
> The plastic has lost its shiny smooth surface in most places except near what look like the injection points (x4). It looks and feels like beer stone coating being quite rough, you can scrape some of it off, but it doesn't get back to smooth & shiny. Upon close inspection, the surface is badly pitted. Since these photos were taken, I have tried to smooth it off with fine grit wet&dry, it reduce it a bit, but not much, and also tried to buff with a buffing mop wheel for plastic polishing, and once again, a little better, but it's not the answer. I still have a rough non smooth shiny surface and not to keen about the harbouring bacteria potential.
> Is this a plastic quality problem?
> View attachment 118330
> View attachment 118331


What are you using to clean with? Mine has had maybe a dozen brews through it and still nice and shiny.


----------



## Grok

I use Tricleanium (TSP) with a pinch of detergent mixed up in hot water. Sometimes use a bit of straight or diluted phosphoric acid for a tough spot, but TSP generally gets all my stainless clean no problem.
You can see on the photos the black areas are the nice and shiny plastic that I expected to whole surface to remain. This is all over my valve as well and might explain why getting my collection bottle off is such a PITA, so hard to move, just about break the plastic every time and swear and curse the stupid thing. Starting to go off this cheap plastic stuff, but I remain hopeful.......for now!


----------



## Ferment8

yeah not sure. I only put stellarclean through it and a bit of stellarsan. Not too strong. Wondering if the TSP or acid might not play well with plastics


----------



## Grok

Ferment8 said:


> yeah not sure. I only put stellarclean through it and a bit of stellarsan. Not too strong. Wondering if the TSP or acid might not play well with plastics



I doubt it, check the MSDS on these products:
Stellerclean: Silicates, Oxidizing agents, Phosphates, and Surfactants and Sodium Metasilicate 


Stellersan: 
Kegland: 

Phosphoric acid 50%
Dodecylbenzensulfonic acid 15%
Inert/Proprietary Ingredients- 35% (probably water!!!)
Another MSDS:

Phosphoric Acid(96%) CAS 7664‐38‐2 40‐60% (V/%)
Dedecylbenzene Sulfonic Acid CAS 27176‐87‐0 10‐30% (V/%)
IMS (96%) CAS 64‐17‐5 5‐20% (V/%)
Water CAS 7732‐18‐5 Bal to 100% (V/%)
So not sure which one is accurate, but obviously plenty of Phosphoric acid around these products.

Trisodium phosphate is produced by neutralization of phosphoric acid using sodium carbonate, which produces disodium phosphate, and then sodium carbonate. 
At about pH of 12, is definitely a "base" and generally referred to as Alkaline Salts, so I don't think this should worry plastic. And in any case, why are there small patches of totally unaffected plastic surface!


----------



## Grok

Ferment8 said:


> What are you using to clean with? Mine has had maybe a dozen brews through it and still nice and shiny.


Any chance of pics so I can compare? I have done about 8 brews in mine.


----------



## Ferment8

Give me an hour or two


----------



## frosty3

I had one of those red bottle cleaners do a similar thing. It was caused by the phosphoric acid. So am wondering if that’s what’s caused it?


----------



## Grok

frosty3 said:


> I had one of those red bottle cleaners do a similar thing. It was caused by the phosphoric acid. So am wondering if that’s what’s caused it?


Beer has Phosphoric acid in it naturally, coke drink is loaded with it, if the plastic is that sensitive, it ought to be labelled as such.


----------



## Ferment8

Here you go


----------



## Grok

I see your surfaces are a little blemished as well, how does it feel when you touch it?


----------



## Ferment8

Feels completely smooth. Probably just a bit of film from washing still on it.


----------



## RRising

Grok said:


> I use Tricleanium (TSP) with a pinch of detergent mixed up in hot water. Sometimes use a bit of straight or diluted phosphoric acid for a tough spot, but TSP generally gets all my stainless clean no problem.
> You can see on the photos the black areas are the nice and shiny plastic that I expected to whole surface to remain. This is all over my valve as well and might explain why getting my collection bottle off is such a PITA, so hard to move, just about break the plastic every time and swear and curse the stupid thing. Starting to go off this cheap plastic stuff, but I remain hopeful.......for now!



Are you using a normal cloth or a scourer sponge to clean it? maybe the combo of trisodium phosphate and detergent is causing to plastic to soften and cleaning is roughing up the surface.


----------



## Ferment8

I only use the bucket blaster now. It's only ever had a micro fiber cloth in it


----------



## Grok

I don't use scourers on plastic, either a sponge or cotton cloth, or brush bristles. I actually bought a new dunny brush for this purpose because of the long handle....and of course it is dual purpose....hmmm extra flavour 
But in any case, the tank plastic (PET) is fine, no issues, smooth as, the top fittings are also fine, but then they don't sit in the beer.
I'm thinking this may be plastic ingredients quality issue, maybe not enough R & D? It all points to attention to detail and quality in my book, ok a new product might have some issue, but FFS own up to them and issue a recall to fix problems.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

Grok said:


> I don't use scourers on plastic, either a sponge or cotton cloth, or brush bristles. I actually bought a new dunny brush for this purpose because of the long handle....and of course it is dual purpose....hmmm extra flavour
> But in any case, the tank plastic (PET) is fine, no issues, smooth as, the top fittings are also fine, but then they don't sit in the beer.
> I'm thinking this may be plastic ingredients quality issue, maybe not enough R & D? It all points to attention to detail and quality in my book, ok a new product might have some issue, but FFS own up to them and issue a recall to fix problems.



I recently soaked my FZ with Country Brewer's 'Keg Cleaner' aka Sodium Metasilicate. It was full to the brim with a mix that I eyeballed as I poured in the powder. I forgot about it and came back about a week later and it had leaked from the lower seals

by the look of the lower cone shaped gasket the chemical had eaten away at it.. to the point of failure

I am thinking I will stick to KegLand PBW in the future and also limit contact time of the cleaner to maybe half and hour before I rinse it thoroughly


----------



## RRising

Grok said:


> I don't use scourers on plastic, either a sponge or cotton cloth, or brush bristles. I actually bought a new dunny brush for this purpose because of the long handle....and of course it is dual purpose....hmmm extra flavour
> But in any case, the tank plastic (PET) is fine, no issues, smooth as, the top fittings are also fine, but then they don't sit in the beer.
> I'm thinking this may be plastic ingredients quality issue, maybe not enough R & D? It all points to attention to detail and quality in my book, ok a new product might have some issue, but FFS own up to them and issue a recall to fix problems.



You aren't using a scourer pad but are using a toilet brush? this with a harsh(ish) chemical might be the reason why the plastic in your FZ has gone the way it has.

Have you contacted KL about this potential fault? the reason there isn't a "recall" is because they don't know about the issue. They do have in their instructions what chemicals you can and can't use


----------



## Grok

you seriously think I'd use a used dunny brush....lol 
This issue isn't about scratches in the plastic, it's about reaction with the plastic i am suggesting!


----------



## fdsaasdf

What are the lids made of? PP?

Does any of that residue lift when soaking with warm (<60C) water?


----------



## Grok

I presume the lid is made of the same material, but I don't know, I didn't make it!
I have soaked the bottom flange and valve in warm water, about 50C, and also in the same with some tsp and detergent in it and it doesn't soak off, like things do with stainless.
I'm not here to have a go at KL, I want to know if other people have similar issues with their gear, and if they have, have they found a solution, and if it's turns out to be a common issue, then yes I will get into the manufacturer. If it's just me, then I need to find out why it's happening.


----------



## Grmblz

Grok said:


> I presume the lid is made of the same material, but I don't know, I didn't make it!
> I have soaked the bottom flange and valve in warm water, about 50C, and also in the same with some tsp and detergent in it and it doesn't soak off, like things do with stainless.
> I'm not here to have a go at KL, I want to know if other people have similar issues with their gear, and if they have, have they found a solution, and if it's turns out to be a common issue, then yes I will get into the manufacturer. If it's just me, then I need to find out why it's happening.


There's a comment (not positive but I think it's from KL on KL Q&A) that the recommended contact time for PBW is no more than 30min's, I had been soaking mine for 4 or 5 hrs with no apparent ill effects so no idea what the problem is with extended soaking, another case of RTFM! I suppose.


----------



## onemorecell

Grmblz said:


> There's a comment (not positive but I think it's from KL on KL Q&A) that the recommended contact time for PBW is no more than 30min's, I had been soaking mine for 4 or 5 hrs with no apparent ill effects so no idea what the problem is with extended soaking, another case of RTFM! I suppose.


i soak my shit in pbw until I remember/can be bothered. could be a week... is that just recommended time for the big pet bottles?


----------



## Pensionday

The phosphoric acid can cause you grief in the case that it's used neat. It should be diluted before use. (Don't add it neat to the FZ, but dilute first, then add... or add water, then acid).


----------



## frosty3

This is a photo of my bottle cleaner before I got rid of it. The phosphoric turned it white in parts and you can see where I had scratched some of the white off with my nail.


----------



## Grok

After you got it off, was the surface rough or pitted, or was it back to smooth plastic?


----------



## mynameisrodney

I had an idea for dryhopping with a Fermzilla (particularly all-rounder) without exposing oxygen. If you make up a T piece with 2 female ports, 1 male port, and a ball valve, then you could attach a coke bottle of any size full of hops above the gas port, and just turn the valve to drop them in. I'm going to try to 3D print some bits up and use a ball valve from bunnings, but it might be a nice accessory.


----------



## Fro-Daddy

Would you be leaving your hops at fermentation temps the whole time before dry hopping?


----------



## mynameisrodney

Yes but it would only be a few days.


----------



## RRising

mynameisrodney said:


> I had an idea for dryhopping with a Fermzilla (particularly all-rounder) without exposing oxygen. If you make up a T piece with 2 female ports, 1 male port, and a ball valve, then you could attach a coke bottle of any size full of hops above the gas port, and just turn the valve to drop them in. I'm going to try to 3D print some bits up and use a ball valve from bunnings, but it might be a nice accessory.
> 
> View attachment 118350



Awesome, i'd definitely buy one if it works.


----------



## Grmblz

How would you get the oxygen out of the coke bottle? Or would you drop the hops before fermentation has finished and let the yeast clean it up?


----------



## Fro-Daddy

If you're letting the yeast clean it up, just open the lid and pour them in like normal.
You would need something like the collection bottle that you can purge.


----------



## mynameisrodney

I was just going to leave the ball valve open a crack so the coke bottle will be at the same pressure / gas will still flow through. So at the time of dryhopping the gas in the coke bottle should be same as the gas in the rest of the headspace.


----------



## RRising

I was thinking of using some magnets with a hop sock to dry hop during a pressure ferment, glue some string on the magnet in the fermenter so it doesn't drop into the wort.

Connect the two magnets before closing the fermenter up, hook the string put it up the top so the krausen (hopefully) doesn't touch it and once it comes to dry hop, just take the magnet off the outside and it should just drop in the wort and the magnet just hangs there.

It might work, probably wont, admittedly i didn't put much thought into it.


----------



## Fro-Daddy

That's been done before. I'm still not a fan of leaving the hops at fermenting temps with oxygen exposure for that long.


----------



## Crusty

philrob said:


> Never understood the logic of pressure fermenting. Got what they deserved.
> 2.2 bar? That's about the pressure you run in your car tyres, and they're built with steel etc belts to contain the pressure.
> What makes people think an oversized softdrink bottle will hold the same pressure?



Totally agree here. Why on earth would you need to pressurize a vessel at 2.2 bar? Regardless of the build claims in relation to holding pressure, this person needs to seriously look at getting the fermentation temperature down to an acceptable level & pressurize with a bit more common sense. Get some bloody temp control sorted & hit it with 0.8bar @ a couple of degrees. I can't for the life of me understand why the hell you'd try & carbonate something at 20deg+.
Anybody half serious about making quality beer would have that aspect sorted right off the bat.


----------



## pauly

mynameisrodney said:


> I had an idea for dryhopping with a Fermzilla (particularly all-rounder) without exposing oxygen. If you make up a T piece with 2 female ports, 1 male port, and a ball valve, then you could attach a coke bottle of any size full of hops above the gas port, and just turn the valve to drop them in. I'm going to try to 3D print some bits up and use a ball valve from bunnings, but it might be a nice accessory.



I've tried putting hop pellets down the bottle cap sized holes of the FZ lid and they have needed a lot of "encouragement" to get through! They definitely didn't just flow through. I can't see them making their way past that ball valve, but I wish you luck.

Why not just put the hops in the FZ collection container, crack but don't fully open the valve and ferment upside down with the spunding valve attached to the collection container? Just joking (hmm, or am I?)


----------



## dkril

pauly said:


> I've tried putting hop pellets down the bottle cap sized holes of the FZ lid and they have needed a lot of "encouragement" to get through! They definitely didn't just flow through. I can't see them making their way past that ball valve, but I wish you luck.
> 
> Why not just put the hops in the FZ collection container, crack but don't fully open the valve and ferment upside down with the spunding valve attached to the collection container? Just joking (hmm, or am I?)


You WERE joking. Now you're thinking, "Hmmm. Might have to give that a crack sometime."

Let us know how it goes


----------



## pauly

Crusty said:


> Totally agree here. Why on earth would you need to pressurize a vessel at 2.2 bar? Regardless of the build claims in relation to holding pressure, this person needs to seriously look at getting the fermentation temperature down to an acceptable level & pressurize with a bit more common sense. Get some bloody temp control sorted & hit it with 0.8bar @ a couple of degrees. I can't for the life of me understand why the hell you'd try & carbonate something at 20deg+.
> Anybody half serious about making quality beer would have that aspect sorted right off the bat.



Not everyone is out to make an award winning beer every time.

I imagine a few people pressure ferment to get some co2 dissolved in the ferment, and to suppress some esters that happen due to a lack of temperature control (e.g. when you are fermenting being a door at ambient). I've done a 5 day ferment at 25-30C and 25PSI then kegged in the morning and drank it in the evening. It was drinkable for me. Sorry if this breaks your rules


----------



## mynameisrodney

pauly said:


> I've tried putting hop pellets down the bottle cap sized holes of the FZ lid and they have needed a lot of "encouragement" to get through! They definitely didn't just flow through. I can't see them making their way past that ball valve, but I wish you luck.
> 
> Why not just put the hops in the FZ collection container, crack but don't fully open the valve and ferment upside down with the spunding valve attached to the collection container? Just joking (hmm, or am I?)



Ah that sucks to hear about the hole size, hopefully a shake will get them through. I might do a dry run first.

I actually have an allrounder, not the standard FZ, so no collection container. I read a few reviews about the valve being a pain to clean and decided to go the route i did. also by the time my beer gets in the fermenter I've usually had a few, so want an idiot proof design with less to go wrong haha. 

Regarding the room temp, I'm not that worried. The hops spend months in the elements, warm temps, wind rain etc. my LHBS doesn't refrigerate them anyway, I cant see ~3-4 days in a sealed container is going to have a significant effect on them. 

Cheers,
Chris


----------



## mynameisrodney

Crusty said:


> I can't for the life of me understand why the hell you'd try & carbonate something at 20deg+.
> Anybody half serious about making quality beer would have that aspect sorted right off the bat.



You spend your fermentation time letting out CO2 (and other volatiles), and then immediately try to pump CO2 straight back in. avoiding this waste in CO2 and potential loss in hop aroma is a good reason to try as long as it can be done without a loss in quality.


----------



## Crusty

pauly said:


> Not everyone is out to make an award winning beer every time.
> 
> I imagine a few people pressure ferment to get some co2 dissolved in the ferment, and to suppress some esters that happen due to a lack of temperature control (e.g. when you are fermenting being a door at ambient). I've done a 5 day ferment at 25-30C and 25PSI then kegged in the morning and drank it in the evening. It was drinkable for me. Sorry if this breaks your rules



No need to be sorry, brew how you like & do what makes you happy.
A pressure ferment shouldn't really be a short cut for lack of temp control nor should drinking green beer. There's a time & process for making quality beer & there's no way in hell a beer has had ample time to condition, clear or stabilize from the fermenter in the morning then drunk in the evening.
Of course you can argue oh, it tastes fine, well maybe to you it is but don't for one minute try to convince me that yeast placed under that pressure & that temperature is going to give you a superior result against proper temp control. Pressure fermenting is so, so harmful to yeast health & if you don't pitch an ample healthy quantity into that stressful situation, well the end product will speak for itself.
As for award winning beers, I've made several, not by sticking to the rules, but simply following techniques that get those awards.


----------



## Crusty

mynameisrodney said:


> You spend your fermentation time letting out CO2 (and other volatiles), and then immediately try to pump CO2 straight back in. avoiding this waste in CO2 and potential loss in hop aroma is a good reason to try as long as it can be done without a loss in quality.



Yep, just like so many commercial breweries do.
There's techniques to recoup loss of hop aroma you know if you somehow have driven so much off.
Dry hop is good or one bittering addition only. Cool your wort down to 80degC than add your flavour & aroma hops & steep for 20mins or so.
There's very little hop character lost this way due to fermentation.


----------



## pauly

mynameisrodney said:


> Ah that sucks to hear about the hole size, hopefully a shake will get them through. I might do a dry run first.
> 
> I actually have an allrounder, not the standard FZ, so no collection container. I read a few reviews about the valve being a pain to clean and decided to go the route i did. also by the time my beer gets in the fermenter I've usually had a few, so want an idiot proof design with less to go wrong haha.
> 
> Regarding the room temp, I'm not that worried. The hops spend months in the elements, warm temps, wind rain etc. my LHBS doesn't refrigerate them anyway, I cant see ~3-4 days in a sealed container is going to have a significant effect on them.
> 
> Cheers,
> Chris


I have a FZ but dislike using it because of the valve cleaning. 

I have two all-rounders and next ferment I plan to ferment in one and run the co2 into the second (empty) one which will have the spunding valve attached. 

Towards the end of the ferment I will quickly open the top of the second one, which is empty but likely purged of oxygen from the co2 runoff from the ferment, and drop in the dry hop into it. Once the ferment has finished I will closed transfer from the first to the second for the dry hop.

I am also not worried about the temp for a day or so, and they will be sitting in mostly co2 I hope.


----------



## Grmblz

RRising said:


> I was thinking of using some magnets with a hop sock to dry hop during a pressure ferment, glue some string on the magnet in the fermenter so it doesn't drop into the wort.
> 
> Connect the two magnets before closing the fermenter up, hook the string put it up the top so the krausen (hopefully) doesn't touch it and once it comes to dry hop, just take the magnet off the outside and it should just drop in the wort and the magnet just hangs there.
> 
> It might work, probably wont, admittedly i didn't put much thought into it.


Use a stir bar (magnet from stir plate) for the hop bag they're teflon coated, and wont hurt your beer, no need for bits of string.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

mynameisrodney said:


> I had an idea for dryhopping with a Fermzilla (particularly all-rounder) without exposing oxygen. If you make up a T piece with 2 female ports, 1 male port, and a ball valve, then you could attach a coke bottle of any size full of hops above the gas port, and just turn the valve to drop them in. I'm going to try to 3D print some bits up and use a ball valve from bunnings, but it might be a nice accessory.
> 
> View attachment 118350


Looks similar to mine


----------



## goatchop41

Fro-Daddy said:


> That's been done before. I'm still not a fan of leaving the hops at fermenting temps with oxygen exposure for that long.



I highly doubt that you could notice any difference due to this when doing a blinded tasting


----------



## RRising

Grmblz said:


> Use a stir bar (magnet from stir plate) for the hop bag they're teflon coated, and wont hurt your beer, no need for bits of string.



That's a great idea, might buy a cheap one from ebay and test its powerful enough to hold up a hop sock.


----------



## Grmblz

RRising said:


> That's a great idea, might buy a cheap one from ebay and test its powerful enough to hold up a hop sock.


Use an N52 neodymium magnet for the outside. Also from ebay.


----------



## RRising

Grmblz said:


> Use an N52 neodymium magnet for the outside. Also from ebay.



I think i have a neodymium magnet around somewhere, if not bunnings sells them fairly cheap.


----------



## mynameisrodney

Great idea, i've heard people using magnets, but not with a stir bar. always with something i didnt want in my beer.


----------



## pauly

Crusty said:


> A pressure ferment shouldn't really be a short cut for lack of temp control nor should drinking green beer.


I think this is the confusion. I'm not using it as a short cut, I have no ability to temperature control the beer because I don't have the available space. I'm using the FZ to mitigate the effects by suppressing esters. 

I also like that it carbonates my beer somewhat, as I dislike exchanging gas bottles. I really like the enclosed transfers as I often drink a keg slowly and this really helps it last.



Crusty said:


> Totally agree here. Why on earth would you need to pressurize a vessel at 2.2 bar?



So that it's carbed up after transferring to a keg. You could leave that keg to sit for a few weeks until its needed then swap it in to the kegerator, no force carbing needed.



Crusty said:


> Get some bloody temp control sorted & hit it with 0.8bar @ a couple of degrees. I can't for the life of me understand why the hell you'd try & carbonate something at 20deg+.



Probably because you can spend 5 seconds twisting the blowtie a few times rather than putting everything in a fridge with a spare gas bottle and reg. Just a guess there, I obviously can't know what their reasoning was.


----------



## theSeekerr

Crusty said:


> Why on earth would you need to pressurize a vessel at 2.2 bar?



German breweries have performed natural carbonation by spunding for decades. It's a completely reasonable thing to do. I'm not sure I'd do it in plastic, personally, but I carbonate every batch in my kegmenter by essentially* sealing the vessel for the last 3-4 points of fermentation.

* I don't actually seal the vessel, I adjust the PRV to a pressure that allows full carbonation at D-rest temperatures. But it's basically sealed.

2.2 bar is a bit on the high side - I've calculated that sufficient CO2 for full carbonation is present in the vessel with the headspace around 1.75 bar at the end of fermentation. But I don't imagine you like that number much better.


----------



## goatchop41

theSeekerr said:


> German breweries have performed natural carbonation by spunding for decades. It's a completely reasonable thing to do. I'm not sure I'd do it in plastic, personally



Based on what, exactly? I've seen a number of people say similar on other forums and facebook groups, but never had anything to back it up with besides 'pLaStIc Is BaD'


----------



## theSeekerr

goatchop41 said:


> Based on what, exactly? I've seen a number of people say similar on other forums and facebook groups, but never had anything to back it up with besides 'pLaStIc Is BaD'



I don't have any problems with plastic fermenters or even plastic pressure vessels - I have a couple that I use for split batches. But the Fermzilla design with the big mouth has definitely had issues with splits in the past. Hopefully the slightly revised shape of the tanks they're shipping now has it under control but personally I feel like it's a bit soon to be confident.

On the other hand, I have absolute confidence in the stainless kegmenters, so if someone tells me they want a vessel to use regularly near its maximum rated pressure that's the one I recommend. That simple.


----------



## Grok

So....what is bottling then, if not exactly the same process all be it on a small individual container size!


----------



## onemorecell

Grok said:


> So....what is bottling then, if not exactly the same process all be it on a small individual container size!


well the container is the thing we're talking about here. so if you change the container it's gonna change everything...


----------



## Grok

In any case probably a topic for another thread (pressure fermenting).
I'm more interested in this at the moment, has anybody got this happening to their FZ gear?
Some smooth areas that come clean no problem, but far more rough surface that isn't cleaning friendly.


----------



## goatchop41

Grok said:


> In any case probably a topic for another thread (pressure fermenting).
> I'm more interested in this at the moment, has anybody got this happening to their FZ gear?
> Some smooth areas that come clean no problem, but far more rough surface that isn't cleaning friendly.



Given the details that you shared in your earlier post, I would be thinking that it is a combination of the cleaning chemical that you are using, and more importantly the exposure time.
I don't mean this in a rude way, but have you actually read the manual for the product that you are using? It very clearly what products they recommend, and maximum exposure times


----------



## Crusty

theSeekerr said:


> German breweries have performed natural carbonation by spunding for decades. It's a completely reasonable thing to do. I'm not sure I'd do it in plastic, personally, but I carbonate every batch in my kegmenter by essentially* sealing the vessel for the last 3-4 points of fermentation.
> 
> * I don't actually seal the vessel, I adjust the PRV to a pressure that allows full carbonation at D-rest temperatures. But it's basically sealed.
> 
> 2.2 bar is a bit on the high side - I've calculated that sufficient CO2 for full carbonation is present in the vessel with the headspace around 1.75 bar at the end of fermentation. But I don't imagine you like that number much better.



The Unitank has a pressure relief valve of 15psi but the tank itself can withstand 30psi, so at higher temperatures, ie: ambient, the pressure required for carbonation exceeds the working pressure of the relief valve. These units are designed to run a glycol system through a coil in the tank so what I'll be doing is no pressure during ferment but a few points from terminal, close the tank & set my spunding valve for around 0.8bar, 12psi. When I cold crash the beer will absorb that head space pressure & I should end up with approx 2.5vol/CO2, temp dependent.


----------



## theSeekerr

Crusty said:


> When I cold crash the beer will absorb that head space pressure & I should end up with approx 2.5vol/CO2, temp dependent.



Look for my post a few pages back, I ran the numbers on a similar statement and it doesn't quite work that way.


----------



## Crusty

theSeekerr said:


> No it doesn't?
> 
> 12 psig at 20C is 26.7psia at 293.15K
> 5C is 278.15K
> 
> The absolute pressure will reduce proportionally to the absolute temperature. (278.15/293.15) * 26.7 = 25.3 psia = 10.63 psig
> 
> In reality you'll see it read a tiny bit lower than that after cold crash - the increased solubility of CO2 in cold beer will see some of it enter solution, and there's a tiny bit of volume change attributable to the contraction of the liquid as it cools. All the same, you cold crash a beer at 12 psig you're going to be seeing 9+ PSI, not "about 1PSI".



Interesting.
All the charts I've seen everywhere don't reflect on that calculation but it makes perfect sense.


----------



## Grok

goatchop41 said:


> Given the details that you shared in your earlier post, I would be thinking that it is a combination of the cleaning chemical that you are using, and more importantly the exposure time.
> I don't mean this in a rude way, but have you actually read the manual for the product that you are using? It very clearly what products they recommend, and maximum exposure times


OK, lets see, yes I have RTFM, and guess what those products are if you care to look under the covers!

Super Kill Ethyl Sanitizer Spray : basically ethanol/alcohol solution......hand sanitizer solution of which we are all familiar with now.
StellarSan: "Phosphoric Acid based cleaner"
StellarClean (PBW): "is a buffered alkaline detergent", "pH of 1% SOLUTION: 11-12", "Silicates, Oxidizing agents, Phosphates, and Surfactants"
StellarClean is looking very similar to TSP that is also 11-12 pH and is essentially a buffered alkaline solution....hmmm......., I wonder if it's the same stuff with a bit of detergent (surfactant) thrown in there, could it be that they don't actually don't make any of this shit, but just buy bulk base materials and repackage stuff, as most shops do, and have the cheek to claim their stuff is soooo much better!
I never stated I do extended soaking, others have though.
But in all this, nobody is answering my question, just going down a sidetrack "thinking" maybe because I don't use the companies "propriety products" like all the other sheeple, that this must be the problem!
I have had a close look at this plastic with magnifier glasses and it has distinct blemishes. What I want to know is why some parts of it are completely smooth as I would expect the plastic to be for this purpose, and some (most) of the rest is pitted and has "lines" in the surface!
All I am asking is others have a fkn look and tell me ffs!


----------



## Grmblz

Grok said:


> All I am asking is others have a fkn look and tell me ffs!


I commented mid last year about a patchy "cloudiness" on the KL Q&A thread, never got a response, and it's still there and I can't get in to scrub it, vessel still works and hasn't exploded yet, only had PBW and starsan in it, but PBW at longer than the recommended exposure times, not overnight just 4 hrs, Kee says 20 min's is recommended but doesn't give any explanation, and good luck getting an answer, too many "embarrassing" questions just gets you banned from their thread. 
So to answer your fkn question yes I did look and posted my observations, which I have repeated here for your benefit.
fwiw I think it's a quality issue, why are some areas cloudy/rough when other areas (exposed to the same compounds) are clear/smooth, well it aint fkn rocket science is it! 
I have no idea about the intricacies of PET but would bet a pound to a piece of shit that there's "cheap" PET and there's "expensive" PET, guess what your fermzilla is made from, would be interesting to see if any of the PET whatevers from the other team have similar issues.
Don't bother one less I'm over the fan boi crap.


----------



## pauly

I have purchased a second all-rounder with the intention of setting up the dry hop in it and using the co2 of the ferment to purge the secondary. I waited until the ferment had been going a little before adding the hops into the secondary to minimize the o2 contact as much as practical, but I thought it better to get them in as early as possible as this allows more co2 purge the secondary before I do the transfer.

The reason I am doing this over using the original FZ is that I think it will result in quicker and easier cleaning and generally less messing about, especially since I have a bucket blaster (which is awesome BTW).

I will report back in a few weeks as to how it tastes compared to the last one I did where I threw the hops in through the top of the all rounder (same wort and dry hop).


----------



## awfulknauful




----------



## mje1980

Plastic plus pressure plus big valve at the bottom is not a good idea no matter who makes them. If I was interested in pressure fermenting, which I’m not as plain old atmospheric has worked well for a very long time, it would be stainless, regardless of kegking/kegland dibbydobbing/nernernernerring


----------



## BKBrews

I've done 5 batches in my fermzilla and while I haven't had any of the issues with it not sealing or anything like that, I've just sold it to move back to something more simple until I can get some unitanks. The collection container is an absolute pain in the ass. I am a convert to pressure transfers though, so I will either swap to the G3 and use SS brewtech tri-clover elbow and butterfly valve with the tri-clover adaptor (I already have the parts), or will move to the all rounder and continue using a blow off, with the pressure kit only for pressure transfer purposes. I only bought the FZ because I wanted to dump a lot of the cold break prior to pitching (using counterflow chiller), but haven't actually even done that once - most of the time the collection container only half fills for some reason, and then the rest is left in the main body. Yeast has been eating it all up anyway, so it hasn't been a concern.


----------



## Grmblz

There's obviously issues with the fermzilla that KL refuse to admit or address, they changed the design but are not man enough to admit it (too many warranty replacements maybe) buy one but do your due diligence, in other words Google fermzilla failures.


----------



## onemorecell

mje1980 said:


> Plastic plus pressure plus big valve at the bottom is not a good idea no matter who makes them. If I was interested in pressure fermenting, which I’m not as plain old atmospheric has worked well for a very long time, it would be stainless, regardless of kegking/kegland dibbydobbing/nernernernerring


it's not that much more expensive to get a 26L kegmenter. i really dunno why they aren't more popular...


----------



## Ballaratguy

BKBrews said:


> I've done 5 batches in my fermzilla and while I haven't had any of the issues with it not sealing or anything like that, I've just sold it to move back to something more simple until I can get some unitanks. The collection container is an absolute pain in the ass. I am a convert to pressure transfers though, so I will either swap to the G3 and use SS brewtech tri-clover elbow and butterfly valve with the tri-clover adaptor (I already have the parts), or will move to the all rounder and continue using a blow off, with the pressure kit only for pressure transfer purposes. I only bought the FZ because I wanted to dump a lot of the cold break prior to pitching (using counterflow chiller), but haven't actually even done that once - most of the time the collection container only half fills for some reason, and then the rest is left in the main body. Yeast has been eating it all up anyway, so it hasn't been a concern.


I’ve bought the G3 and love it. I’m also considering getting another one
The only downside that I have experienced is being able to get the bottom of it to seal so it doesn’t leak under pressure (arthritis in my hands). I also think that if they were made with a thread on the bottom to be able th screw a 2” tri clamp into would be a vast improvement


----------



## enoch

onemorecell said:


> it's not that much more expensive to get a 26L kegmenter. i really dunno why they aren't more popular...


I’ve got a 50 litre from kking and a 58 litre from kland and used a 60 litre all rounder for the first yesterday. 
Why the all rounder? It’s so wonderfully light and you can see where the float is. I’ve had a few brews where you think you’re done and discover 5 litres of beer in the bottom. It is a bit big for my fridge but one of the pet bottle t pieces as a 90 degree adapter fixed that.


----------



## frosty3

awfulknauful said:


> View attachment 118534


I’m glad to see your back! How is the horticulture endives going??? Have you managed to view any other YouTube videos relating to the Fermzilla?? I remember last time you where having trouble and could only find the one by Doctor Hans Premium Light.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Ballaratguy said:


> I’ve bought the G3 and love it. I’m also considering getting another one
> The only downside that I have experienced is being able to get the bottom of it to seal so it doesn’t leak under pressure (arthritis in my hands). I also think that if they were made with a thread on the bottom to be able th screw a 2” tri clamp into would be a vast improvement


Is there not a fitting for a tri clamp, pretty sure I have seen one in the promotional video.


----------



## Ballaratguy

wide eyed and legless said:


> Is there not a fitting for a tri clamp, pretty sure I have seen one in the promotional video.


Yes there is but it screws into the bottom seal
I was thinking that a bsp male thread moulded into the bottom and you could then attach any amount of goodies to the bottom For yeast / hop collection. You could also use it for hop injection
I’m being selfish here just thinking of being able to make it leak proof (for my arthritic hands) and also would make cleaning a lot easier


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Would a strap wrench work from Bunnings, I use that on my Chinese kegs/casks.


----------



## Ballaratguy

No because the nut is about 12 ml thick


----------



## onemorecell

enoch said:


> I’ve had a few brews where you think you’re done and discover 5 litres of beer in the bottom.


man that has pissed me off to no end. I think I've got it fixed now by using a regular dip tube with the end chopped off - but damn those floating dip tubes are a pain in the ass. Demoralising to see so much waste


----------



## Fro-Daddy

I've just ordered the floating dip tube filter, hoping that will help with getting the most out and also when doing large dry hopping.


----------



## Grmblz

onemorecell said:


> man that has pissed me off to no end. I think I've got it fixed now by using a regular dip tube with the end chopped off - but damn those floating dip tubes are a pain in the ass. Demoralising to see so much waste


Yeh well, in the words of Dr "I've just taken my med's" I've got my Hanzs on it, and remembering that this is the Fermzilla thread, according to him it's obviously operator error, but take a look at my FKJ (fermenter king junior from KK) here only as a reference btw, may I suggest that if you have difficulty with a Fermzilla then try an alternative fermenter/keg.
fwiw this keg blew last night, it wasn't shaken, tapped on the side or stirred, and has less than 200ml beer in it.


----------



## mynameisrodney

A narrower vessel like the FKJ is going to have a slight edge, as 1cm height of beer is less volume. So I would expect the FKJ to be very good for this. It does have its own volume limitations though, so up to the user what is best for them.

I use an all rounder, once I'm down to the last 5L or so, I rotate it about 20 degrees or so on the stand, and typically get 2-300ml beer left in there at a stab. How do you end up with 5L of beer still in there?


----------



## Grmblz

mynameisrodney said:


> A narrower vessel like the FKJ is going to have a slight edge, as 1cm height of beer is less volume. So I would expect the FKJ to be very good for this. It does have its own volume limitations though, so up to the user what is best for them.
> 
> I use an all rounder, once I'm down to the last 5L or so, I rotate it about 20 degrees or so on the stand, and typically get 2-300ml beer left in there at a stab. How do you end up with 5L of beer still in there?


They are talking about the float jamming/sticking to the side of the vessel before it is empty, in that scenario a narrower vessel should be at a disadvantage, ^^ obviously this is not the case.
Why do you need to rotate the all rounder? I like to connect a keg and not faff around until it blows, and when that happens I want it to be empty.
Width is the other issue, I have a 4 keg serving fridge, and a 2 keg serving fridge, if I used all rounders as uni-tanks I would be left with 2 x 1 keg fridges, this applies to all the pressure PET fermenters of course except for the fkj which holds 18lt only 1lt less than a corny, horses for courses, and very much process dependant but if you are having to prat around with your vessel of choice give an fkj a go, for $60 it's cheap enough to trial, and they don't leak or blow up, well, not yet.


----------



## mynameisrodney

Grmblz said:


> They are talking about the float jamming/sticking to the side of the vessel before it is empty, in that scenario a narrower vessel should be at a disadvantage, ^^ obviously this is not the case.



OK I missed that, I haven't had the float stick to the side so didn't know it was as issue. In any case, if it did happen, I think the solution is to say "whoops, the float stuck to the side of the fermenter. I'd better free it and get the last 5L." rather than wasting 5L of beer. I can't see how this is a major issue, or one that is dependent on the brand of fermenter.



Grmblz said:


> Why do you need to rotate the all rounder? I like to connect a keg and not faff around until it blows, and when that happens I want it to be empty.
> Width is the other issue, I have a 4 keg serving fridge, and a 2 keg serving fridge, if I used all rounders as uni-tanks I would be left with 2 x 1 keg fridges, this applies to all the pressure PET fermenters of course except for the fkj which holds 18lt only 1lt less than a corny, horses for courses, and very much process dependant but if you are having to prat around with your vessel of choice give an fkj a go, for $60 it's cheap enough to trial, and they don't leak or blow up, well, not yet.



I dont 'need' to rotate it, I choose to rotate it to get maybe an extra few 100 ml out. Some people choose to not bother with such things and accept/account for a slighter lower amount of beer, thats fine too. It takes maybe 10 seconds to do though, so not really something that concerns me. At 18L the fkj is out for me. This is probably 15L into the keg, which is a considerable difference.

EDIT: regarding leaks or blowing up, I havent had any issues with mine.


----------



## onemorecell

Grmblz said:


> Yeh well, in the words of Dr "I've just taken my med's" I've got my Hanzs on it, and remembering that this is the Fermzilla thread, according to him it's obviously operator error, but take a look at my FKJ (fermenter king junior from KK) here only as a reference btw, may I suggest that if you have difficulty with a Fermzilla then try an alternative fermenter/keg.
> fwiw this keg blew last night, it wasn't shaken, tapped on the side or stirred, and has less than 200ml beer in it.


Ah that's interesting... The dip tube I have is probably made for the fermzilla - so it'd be a lot longer than I need. maybe shortening it would help.
Right now when the levels go down, the tube gets on an angle (dips down then back up again like a willy) so the hole is outside the beer


----------



## mynameisrodney

Yes the float tube should be cut to length. I think its designed to be approx the right length for the 60L all rounder. I cut it down for my 30L all rounder.


----------



## Grmblz

mynameisrodney said:


> OK I missed that, I haven't had the float stick to the side so didn't know it was as issue. In any case, if it did happen, I think the solution is to say "whoops, the float stuck to the side of the fermenter. I'd better free it and get the last 5L." rather than wasting 5L of beer. I can't see how this is a major issue, or one that is dependent on the brand of fermenter.
> _I view this as faffin around, I want to connect the keg and only see it again when it's empty, could be a result of me being an ex landlord._
> 
> I dont 'need' to rotate it, I choose to rotate it to get maybe an extra few 100 ml out. Some people choose to not bother with such things and accept/account for a slighter lower amount of beer, thats fine too. It takes maybe 10 seconds to do though, so not really something that concerns me. At 18L the fkj is out for me. This is probably 15L into the keg, which is a considerable difference.
> _We may be talking at cross purposes here, are you using your vessel as a fermenter, a uni-tank or a serving keg? I (sometimes) ferment in a saurus transfer to an fkj for secondary/conditioning, and use it to serve, hence the reference to how little is wasted, in this scenario the fkj holds 18lt, as do some of my racecourse cornies._
> 
> EDIT: regarding leaks or blowing up, I havent had any issues with mine.
> _As I said "yet" they'll all blow up given the right circumstances, and it's not necessarily operator error despite what Dr "I got my Hanz on it" claims._


----------



## mynameisrodney

Spending 5 seconds to unstick a float instead of pouring beer down the sink is faffing around? Hahaha. You are complaining about a problem that is so minor it takes seconds to fix, and is unrelated to the product you are trashing.

I use it as a fermenter only. No interest in serving from it.

Last comment is misleading. Every pressure vessel will blow up given the right circumstances.


----------



## Grmblz

mynameisrodney said:


> Spending 5 seconds to unstick a float instead of pouring beer down the sink is faffing around? Hahaha. You are complaining about a problem that is so minor it takes seconds to fix,
> _"I want to connect the keg and only see it again when it's empty" you have a strange definition of complaining I was making a comment, and if you read the thread you would realise it wasn't me talking about finding 5lt in the bottom, and no-one mentions chucking it down the sink._
> 
> and is unrelated to the product you are trashing.
> _Advising people to do their due diligence is not trashing a product, especially when there is well documented evidence of some problems. _
> 
> I use it as a fermenter only. No interest in serving from it.
> _That's your prerogative, but we were talking about serving._
> 
> Last comment is misleading. Every pressure vessel will blow up given the right circumstances.
> "_they'll all blow up given the right circumstances_ " _what part of this are you having difficulty with, how is it misleading?_


----------



## mynameisrodney

We were not talking about serving. You were telling me to give the FKJ a go so that I don't have to do something which takes a few seconds with my fermzilla, which I use as a fermenter. Stop moving the goalposts. The FKJ may be a great product, but it is not a replacement for anything in the fermzilla range. To me it's like a spork, something that does an ok job at 2 things but not great at either of them. If it works for you, that's great, but it doesnt change anything to do with the fermzilla, which is the subject of this thread.

It is misleading similar to making a statement "Don't buy a Toyota, they all break down eventually". All cars will break down eventually. Trying to convince people to move away from a brand because of something which effects all the competitors too is misleading. 

The bit that I have difficulty with is why there are so many people with their knickers in a twist over the whole KK/KL thing that it is impossible to read a thread without it being full of BS. From both sides.


----------



## pauly

pauly said:


> I have purchased a second all-rounder with the intention of setting up the dry hop in it and using the co2 of the ferment to purge the secondary. I waited until the ferment had been going a little before adding the hops into the secondary to minimize the o2 contact as much as practical, but I thought it better to get them in as early as possible as this allows more co2 purge the secondary before I do the transfer.
> 
> The reason I am doing this over using the original FZ is that I think it will result in quicker and easier cleaning and generally less messing about, especially since I have a bucket blaster (which is awesome BTW).
> 
> I will report back in a few weeks as to how it tastes compared to the last one I did where I threw the hops in through the top of the all rounder (same wort and dry hop).



I'd like to give an update on this now it's in the keg.

I think in general it has worked very well, the beer has a good bright colour which to me indicates it has not had any significant oxygen exposure. The transfer to the secondary AR was pretty painless and I managed to do a closed transfer using gravity over 30-40 mins, I then used the excess gas left in the first FZ to purge a keg saving me an enormous 10c worth of gas.

After the dry hop and cold crash the first 17L transferred pretty painlessly to the keg. I hadn't moved the AR from the fridge at this point but it clogged the dip tube, as soon as I put some gas through to blow out the blockage I suddenly had a hop soup and I had to stop kegging for the day.

My dip tube is not cut to the right length, it's maybe 5cm too long. I hadn't had problems with this before as often I had a lot of yeast cake/break/hops mixed together and it was pretty firm. however just with just the 100g of hops it was like a slurry and it was very difficult to angle the AR in such a way that the tube wasn't getting clogged. Moving the AR even slightly also causes the hops to stir up significantly, in the end I got another litre out to a soda bottle but probably left another half litre in there.

I might try one of these.

The beer tastes great, to me it seems more hoppy than the one done in the FZ but I probably need another week or two before a proper taste.

I will definitely be doing this again and the FZ can stay in storage for now. I will spend some time making sure the dip tube it cut to the right length before doing the next batch of course!


----------



## awfulknauful

I wonder if KL have any concerns about what they produce. Those stress fractures won't get better they will get worse.









Beer Baron has been quiet I wonder if he is having problems?


----------



## clickeral

awfulknauful said:


> I wonder if KL have any concerns about what they produce. Those stress fractures won't get better they will get worse.
> View attachment 118572
> 
> View attachment 118573
> 
> Beer Baron has been quiet I wonder if he is having problems?



Playing devils advocate here but my main challenge with both versions is you never know how they have been used

Normal fermentors are pretty idiot proof and can be abused, these fermenters need slightly more finesse. Howver due to the pricepoint and marketing/availability a large audience buy them. Normal plastic fermentors have issues too but they are not catastrophic or overly dangerous.

How do we know the ones failing havent had liquid over the temp spec, have they been exposed to chemicals or uv which weakens the plastic etc, have they been cooled quickly from to high a temp etc.

However it could also be a bad batch which happens but id expect the QC to be higher to prevent this

Even stainless can have issues if not properly used (vaccum buckling the vessal etc)


----------



## onemorecell

mynameisrodney said:


> We were not talking about serving. You were telling me to give the FKJ a go so that I don't have to do something which takes a few seconds with my fermzilla, which I use as a fermenter. Stop moving the goalposts. The FKJ may be a great product, but it is not a replacement for anything in the fermzilla range. To me it's like a spork, something that does an ok job at 2 things but not great at either of them. If it works for you, that's great, but it doesnt change anything to do with the fermzilla, which is the subject of this thread.


why you gotta bring sporks into it?
king of all utensils


----------



## clickeral

onemorecell said:


> why you gotta bring sporks into it?
> king of all utensils



What about splades


----------



## wide eyed and legless

clickeral said:


> Playing devils advocate here but my main challenge with both versions is you never know how they have been used
> 
> Normal fermentors are pretty idiot proof and can be abused, these fermenters need slightly more finesse. Howver due to the pricepoint and marketing/availability a large audience buy them. Normal plastic fermentors have issues too but they are not catastrophic or overly dangerous.
> 
> How do we know the ones failing havent had liquid over the temp spec, have they been exposed to chemicals or uv which weakens the plastic etc, have they been cooled quickly from to high a temp etc.
> 
> However it could also be a bad batch which happens but id expect the QC to be higher to prevent this
> 
> Even stainless can have issues if not properly used (vaccum buckling the vessal etc)


I think we do know the ones failing haven't had been abused by hotter than spec water, chemicals, problems with UV or been to quickly cooled from a high temperature, just going by the law of averages there should be roughly the same listed complaints and photos about the
Fementasaurus/Fermenter king. On the other hand the idiots who should have been buying the idiot proof ones you mentioned could have all decided en masse to go out and by a FermZilla.


----------



## clickeral

wide eyed and legless said:


> I think we do know the ones failing haven't had been abused by hotter than spec water, chemicals, problems with UV or been to quickly cooled from a high temperature, just going by the law of averages there should be roughly the same listed complaints and photos about the
> Fementasaurus/Fermenter king. On the other hand the idiots who should have been buying the idiot proof ones you mentioned could have all decided en masse to go out and by a FermZilla.



Just putting it out there is all, personally I looked at the all-rounder as an option as some of the features did appeal.
However based on the reviews and feedback I've seenI did go with the snub nose instead. That was also partly to do with the fact the g3 option (which ill be getting the upgrade kit for) looks pretty stout. 

The ones with issues from some sources can be product faults, however I would say that there is potential for user error as well.

Its very easy for people to blame a product when things go wrong.

I actually still like my standard plastic Fermenters (and I'm not a fan of plastic in general) because putting boiling wort into them isn't an issue, making kit and kilo straight into them with boiled water is fine etc. 

However im focusing more on consistency at the moment so need to remove oxygen exposure post ferment. Though I may see if a I can get one of my old Fermenters to take a few psi as an experiment. 

Long term ill go to stainless but that's me


----------



## Lorenzo99

No wonder this forum gets a bad wrap.... It's full of the same pathetic people from both sides arguing over kegland and keg king. Like the majority of people, I am over it and wish we could just discuss brewing from an unbiased point of view.


----------



## malt and barley blues

Lorenzo99 said:


> No wonder this forum gets a bad wrap.... It's full of the same pathetic people from both sides arguing over kegland and keg king. Like the majority of people, I am over it and wish we could just discuss brewing from an unbiased point of view.


I would call them reviews, more honest apparently then the reviews Keg Land post about their own goods on their website.


----------



## awfulknauful

malt and barley blues said:


> I would call them reviews, more honest apparently then the reviews Keg Land post about their own goods on their website.


As you say reviews, would it be Keg King I would post up the same pics, probably is upsetting for those who have bought the FermZilla, like Lorenzo99. I bought one too and was far from happy with the quality. Moving on another review.




Only been used twice!


----------



## enoch

I think I found my all rounder leak! The lid is molded and there was a little fillet at the mold join that runs through the o ring channel and creates a little void behind the o-ring that gas can get around. 
Photo below is after I removed the worst of the fillet.




I then put some lube in the channel and put the o ring back on.
Has passed the leak test so far...


----------



## TheBeerBaron

awfulknauful said:


> I wonder if KL have any concerns about what they produce. Those stress fractures won't get better they will get worse.
> View attachment 118572
> 
> View attachment 118573
> 
> Beer Baron has been quiet I wonder if he is having problems?



I commented on that thread.. My FermZilla has the same stress marks in it. Unfortunately, I ruined it by letting it soak in the wrong chemicals which ate the lower cone seal so I've replaced it with an All Rounder for now. Before that however it was still going strong however

Captain douche lord CEO chimed in as well as is his want to do accusing me of drinking the KegLand cool aid even though I was being critical of these marks in the FermZilla. 

SO maybe you can send him a screen shot of this in your little Keg-King-Circle-Jerk chat you all likely have


----------



## CKK

TheBeerBaron said:


> I commented on that thread.. My FermZilla has the same stress marks in it. Unfortunately, I ruined it by letting it soak in the wrong chemicals which ate the lower cone seal so I've replaced it with an All Rounder for now. Before that however it was still going strong however
> 
> Captain douche lord CEO chimed in as well as is his want to do accusing me of drinking the KegLand cool aid even though I was being critical of these marks in the FermZilla.
> 
> SO maybe you can send him a screen shot of this in your little Keg-King-Circle-Jerk chat you all likely have


No doubt that Kegland cool aid is habit forming and hence my sadness that I cannot get you to quit. We do have something that will cure it quick smart though - its called no bullshit.


----------



## mynameisrodney

awfulknauful said:


> As you say reviews, would it be Keg King I would post up the same pics, probably is upsetting for those who have bought the FermZilla, like Lorenzo99. I bought one too and was far from happy with the quality. Moving on another review.
> View attachment 118589
> 
> Only been used twice!



Out of curiosity how tight is that handle done up? On mine I stopped as soon as it had just grabbed on the neck. Over tightening the handle will put stress on the neck, I wonder if this is a contributing factor to the failures. Ideally it would be designed so that it couldn't happen.


----------



## Nullnvoid

Hehehehe, he heard his name and came running


----------



## awfulknauful

Nullnvoid said:


> Hehehehe, he heard his name and came running


He did didn't he, though he sounds more like a jilted lover than a purchaser of faulty goods, he even says the stress fractures are his fault for using the wrong chemical. As if that would cause stress fractures, 10 out of 10 for loyalty for someone he has never met.


----------



## RRising

mynameisrodney said:


> Out of curiosity how tight is that handle done up? On mine I stopped as soon as it had just grabbed on the neck. Over tightening the handle will put stress on the neck, I wonder if this is a contributing factor to the failures. Ideally it would be designed so that it couldn't happen.



This is what i was thinking, looks like they may have over tightened the handle and caused some hairline cracks which pressure fermenting probably exacerbated.


----------



## CKK

mynameisrodney said:


> Out of curiosity how tight is that handle done up? On mine I stopped as soon as it had just grabbed on the neck. Over tightening the handle will put stress on the neck, I wonder if this is a contributing factor to the failures. Ideally it would be designed so that it couldn't happen.


Those stress cracks occur when you reheat the PET whilst the threaded part stays cooler during the two stage process. The production process is not suitable to make pressure vessels.


----------



## awfulknauful

mynameisrodney said:


> Out of curiosity how tight is that handle done up? On mine I stopped as soon as it had just grabbed on the neck. Over tightening the handle will put stress on the neck, I wonder if this is a contributing factor to the failures. Ideally it would be designed so that it couldn't happen.


The stress fractures were on mine out of the box and I never got any handles.


----------



## Nullnvoid

awfulknauful said:


> He did didn't he, though he sounds more like a jilted lover than a purchaser of faulty goods, he even says the stress fractures are his fault for using the wrong chemical. As if that would cause stress fractures, 10 out of 10 for loyalty for someone he has never met.


I think you're aware, but I was talking about Captain Douche Lord.


----------



## ozdevil

Lorenzo99 said:


> No wonder this forum gets a bad wrap.... It's full of the same pathetic people from both sides arguing over kegland and keg king. Like the majority of people, I am over it and wish we could just discuss brewing from an unbiased point of view.



Spot on, its not even entertaining now between keg king and kegland and some of the people here.

if i was solely trying to rely on these forums to go through kegland or keg king i wouldnt purchase from either store.

i teell you what keg king and kegland both companies should be dam ashamed of themselves

i have only just got back into brewing, and lucky for me i knew exactly what i wanted and where to get it...
but if i was newcomer to home brewing and entered this forum and i seen 2 homebrew shops go head to toe whinging about each other
regardless who is right or who is wrong, it would have turn me off brewing as i would think whats the point of buying gear of homebrew shop as all they do is whinge about eacher other

time to grow up keg king and kegland.
there is room for the both of ya's in corona town 

i am sure both can give constructive advice and also learn from each other to help us mere little homebrewers out..


and its just not the 2 companies either its some members as well


----------



## mynameisrodney

awfulknauful said:


> The stress fractures were on mine out of the box and I never got any handles.



Ah bugger. Thought that was an easily fixed cause.


----------



## mynameisrodney

CEO Keg King said:


> Those stress cracks occur when you reheat the PET whilst the threaded part stays cooler during the two stage process. The production process is not suitable to make pressure vessels.



Isn't it the same way coke bottles are made?


----------



## awfulknauful

Nullnvoid said:


> I think you're aware, but I was talking about Captain Douche Lord.


Wasn't aware, thought you was talking about KL's number one ticket holder Beer Baron. Who is Captain Douche Lord?


----------



## CKK

mynameisrodney said:


> Isn't it the same way coke bottles are made?


Yes but the volume they hold is much smaller so the relative strength is much higher. Also the coke is not fermenting any more because if it was then you would have a really big problem.


----------



## Nullnvoid

awfulknauful said:


> Wasn't aware, thought you was talking about KL's number one ticket holder Beer Baron. Who is Captain Douche Lord?


LOL


----------



## CKK

ozdevil said:


> Spot on, its not even entertaining now between keg king and kegland and some of the people here.
> 
> if i was solely trying to rely on these forums to go through kegland or keg king i wouldnt purchase from either store.
> 
> i teell you what keg king and kegland both companies should be dam ashamed of themselves
> 
> i have only just got back into brewing, and lucky for me i knew exactly what i wanted and where to get it...
> but if i was newcomer to home brewing and entered this forum and i seen 2 homebrew shops go head to toe whinging about each other
> regardless who is right or who is wrong, it would have turn me off brewing as i would think whats the point of buying gear of homebrew shop as all they do is whinge about eacher other
> 
> time to grow up keg king and kegland.
> there is room for the both of ya's in corona town
> 
> i am sure both can give constructive advice and also learn from each other to help us mere little homebrewers out..
> 
> 
> and its just not the 2 companies either its some members as well


Maybe you can explain what Keg King has done to be ashamed of? Expose falsehoods about its products maybe? We should be ashamed of ourselves for showing people how a chinese entity uses our name at www.kegking.cn perhaps? Or how our trademarks are being used by another business without our permission? Go and take a look at the Kegland Q and A thread here and see how their own followers are pointing out fake reviews etc. Sorry but there is no shame for doing the right thing and we are happy to help many a new or experienced brewer to get what they need and we don't need to plagiarise or copy.


----------



## onemorecell

CEO Keg King said:


> Maybe you can explain what Keg King has done to be ashamed of?


How about saying shit like "We would not go to another company's thread to talk shit"
And then shortly after, doing this

Or how about making false accounts to disparage keg land?

You got a short memory mate.


----------



## mynameisrodney

CEO Keg King said:


> Yes but the volume they hold is much smaller so the relative strength is much higher. Also the coke is not fermenting any more because if it was then you would have a really big problem.



The vessel doesn't care whether or not fermentation is occurring, it cares about the pressure. Coke at room temp is like 50 or 60 psi. Well higher than what is being used to ferment under pressure. The relative strength of a smaller vessel might be higher, but wall thickness is not the same between them. 

There may be intricacies you left out, but saying that this production method is no good for making pressure vessels is simply untrue.


----------



## Nullnvoid

CEO Keg King said:


> Maybe you can explain what Keg King has done to be ashamed of? Expose falsehoods about its products maybe? We should be ashamed of ourselves for showing people how a chinese entity uses our name at www.kegking.cn perhaps? Or how our trademarks are being used by another business without our permission? Go and take a look at the Kegland Q and A thread here and see how their own followers are pointing out fake reviews etc. Sorry but there is no shame for doing the right thing and we are happy to help many a new or experienced brewer to get what they need and we don't need to plagiarise or copy.


Think you just summed it up right there as to what keg king should be ashamed off. 

Letting you near a computer.


----------



## CKK

mynameisrodney said:


> The vessel doesn't care whether or not fermentation is occurring, it cares about the pressure. Coke at room temp is like 50 or 60 psi. Well higher than what is being used to ferment under pressure. The relative strength of a smaller vessel might be higher, but wall thickness is not the same between them.
> 
> There may be intricacies you left out, but saying that this production method is no good for making pressure vessels is simply untrue.


OK then amend it to large pressure vessels if we are to split hairs. The relative wall thickness to the contained pressure means its safe for a small vessel like a coke bottle to use a reheated polymer but when you have something 27-55 times bigger it is not unless you make the walls much, much thicker.


----------



## ozdevil

CEO Keg King said:


> Maybe you can explain what Keg King has done to be ashamed of? Expose falsehoods about its products maybe? We should be ashamed of ourselves for showing people how a chinese entity uses our name at www.kegking.cn perhaps? Or how our trademarks are being used by another business without our permission? Go and take a look at the Kegland Q and A thread here and see how their own followers are pointing out fake reviews etc. Sorry but there is no shame for doing the right thing and we are happy to help many a new or experienced brewer to get what they need and we don't need to plagiarise or copy.



Do you really think this is for the forum, to defend your issues with kegland and involving others if someone is using your products under their name or abusing your trademark take through the courts not in in a public forum its not doing you any favours nor does do any favours to kegland

fake reviews people are showing of kegland hasnt really got anything to do with keg king unless you are doing the same.


everyone has a right to defend themselves wether they are right or wrong


----------



## wide eyed and legless

onemorecell said:


> How about saying shit like "We would not go to another company's thread to talk shit"
> And then shortly after, doing this
> 
> Or how about making false accounts to disparage keg land?
> 
> You got a short memory mate.





onemorecell said:


> How about saying shit like "We would not go to another company's thread to talk shit"
> And then shortly after, doing this
> 
> Or how about making false accounts to disparage keg land?
> 
> You got a short memory mate.


Since when was this Keg Lands thread? This is an open thread. How many false accounts is Keg Land running?Why aren't KL on your preferred forum? Seems like you just come on here to stir shit.


ozdevil said:


> Do you really think this is for the forum, to defend your issues with kegland and involving others if someone is using your products under their name or abusing your trademark take through the courts not in in a public forum its not doing you any favours nor does do any favours to kegland
> 
> fake reviews people are showing of kegland hasnt really got anything to do with keg king unless you are doing the same.
> 
> 
> everyone has a right to defend themselves wether they are right or wrong


Its already been to court and guess who lost?


----------



## ozdevil

wide eyed and legless said:


> Since when was this Keg Lands thread? This is an open thread. How many false accounts is Keg Land running?Why aren't KL on your preferred forum? Seems like you just come on here to stir shit.
> 
> Its already been to court and guess who lost?



if its been to court and there has been a judgement then thats where it should stay

its no ones business on this forum about the court issue , yes its been brought up and spoken about

those issues are not helping other members or new members who are not interested in them

but when they start reading posts to find out information they have to sift through the rot of this crap to find the good points of a product

seeing both keg king and kegland whinge and binge along with others is not good thing..

my reason in coming on this forum is to learn and read about brewing and not sifting through school yard bitching..


Sorry buts not fun trying to sift through the rubbish to find the good things


----------



## wide eyed and legless

ozdevil said:


> if its been to court and there has been a judgement then thats where it should stay
> 
> its no ones business on this forum about the court issue , yes its been brought up and spoken about
> 
> those issues are not helping other members or new members who are not interested in them
> 
> but when they start reading posts to find out information they have to sift through the rot of this crap to find the good points of a product
> 
> seeing both keg king and kegland whinge and binge along with others is not good thing..
> 
> my reason in coming on this forum is to learn and read about brewing and not sifting through school yard bitching..
> 
> 
> Sorry buts not fun trying to sift through the rubbish to find the good things


The issues are, the folk who are looking to buy a new fermenter will come to this thread to make their own mind up. The Aussie made fermentasaurus has been around for a number of years without issue, the FermZilla has been in circulation for a year with a shit load of issues.
Do Keg Land care, apparently not. This thread serves those who are looking to buy a fermenter, and nothing else, review your post it was you who mentioned going to court so you made it your business, now your saying its no ones business!


----------



## ozdevil

wide eyed and legless said:


> The issues are, the folk who are looking to buy a new fermenter will come to this thread to make their own mind up. The Aussie made fermentasaurus has been around for a number of years without issue, the FermZilla has been in circulation for a year with a shit load of issues.
> Do Keg Land care, apparently not. This thread serves those who are looking to buy a fermenter, and nothing else, review your post it was you who mentioned going to court so you made it your business, now your saying its no ones business!



i said "Do you really think this is for the forum, to defend your issues with kegland and involving others if someone is using your products under their name or abusing your trademark take through the courts not in in a public forum "


at the time of my 1st post i had no clue it had been through the courts
until you said it had gone through the courts and guess who won

I do take some of your point on but for what its worth thats where i was going to leave it at that and not say another word 
which is hardly making it my business if i am not going to continue putting my 2 bobs more onto it.


anyway i have said my piece , i am only saying what i see and replying to a response that was given to me


----------



## TheBeerBaron

wide eyed and legless said:


> Its already been to court and guess who lost?



Who lost? What was the judgement? Seems KegLand are still in business so it obviously matters 3/8ths of F*** all


----------



## pauly

I think the problem I see with this thread, and the other KL Q&A is that they have become pretty partisan to a few people, but most people just don't care and to us it looks like school kids trolling and spamming, generally wasting everyones time.

When I was reading the Q&A thread I remember thinking WEAL was a KK employee, must have been four negative comments in the first three pages. I remember reading some comment criticising KL for shipping cheaper stuff and practically stealing food from the mouths of the hungry children of your local LHBS proprietor. 

I closed my facebook account long ago as I think it's a pretty toxic place in general. It's great to come in here and find pictures copypasted from someone else's phone showing peoples exploded fermzillas and presumably maimed families and blinded brewers. I wouldn't trust half the facebook users to boil a kettle without setting fire to their house. I wouldn't let DrHans to wash my hop socks but if he posts a negative review on the FZ it's great to have it brought up continuously.

I'd love to know the relative sales numbers of the FZ vs KK offerings, personally I don't know a single person who has and KK kit, but plenty with FZs. I really wonder if there's an order of magnitude difference in the sales which may explain all the posts on FB.

Even before CEO started crashing the thread with the helpful, insightful, and totally unbiased comments on why their direct competitor is dodgy, I had pretty much decided not to spend my money there based on the astroturfing it seemed like others were doing for them on the Q&A thread. I try not to deal with companies which annoy me and I have really throughly been annoyed by KK.

WEAL once suggested not getting a FZ and instead using two snub-nose fermenters instead. I basically have this setup now with all-rounders. Imagine if I had not read all those negative comments early on, I probably would have spent thousands of dollars at KK instead, that's kinda funny.

For what it's worth I don't think KL are blameless and they are sure slinging about some mud on their videos and comments as well. But I don't really care about the bad blood between them, I want my $90 cornys and $70 co2 cylinders.

Anyway, I know I can go up to the options menu and ignore people, and I did for a while but unfortunately others keep replying. I've come to love the fermzilla gore. I can't wait for the next vague accusations, like that time Anthony heard Adam telling Steve that he saw Susan kissing Matt behind the bike sheds at lunchtime. Rock on KK viral marketing team, you're superstars to me.

DISCLAIMER: if my KL stuff explodes and floods the room I will get back on FB and I will fill this thread with every burst fermzilla pic I can find.


----------



## onemorecell

@pauly i think you hit the nail on the head
I used to be impartial about KL/KK, but exactly the same as you, I don't want a bar of KK anymore for the same reason.

good luck with your fermenter and, if/when it does **** up, just get a stainless


----------



## onemorecell

CEO Keg King said:


> OK then amend it to large pressure vessels if we are to split hairs. The relative wall thickness to the contained pressure means its safe for a small vessel like a coke bottle to use a reheated polymer but when you have something 27-55 times bigger it is not unless you make the walls much, much thicker.


So what about your fake accounts then?
Why do you ALWAYS ignore that?

**** mate, as Pauly said - if it weren't for YOU I'd still shop at kegking.


----------



## Nullnvoid

onemorecell said:


> **** mate, as Pauly said - if it weren't for YOU I'd still shop at kegking.


Exactly the same here.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

Nullnvoid said:


> Exactly the same here.



I don't shop there because (like I have told CEO many times before) they have nothing I want. Pretty plain and simple. Although his behaviour would make it hard to send my hard earned dollars there.. I would probably have to buy it from the LHBS to make myself feel better.

Putting aside the bad blood and their similar offerings like FermZilla/Fermenter King, BrewZilla/Guten etc. KegLand have more unique products and seem to be innovating more like the RAPT fridge etc. along with this I've never had as issue with their product or service so I see no reason to move my custom.

I honestly think this offensive KK/CEO have been on is just pure jealousy... Deep down they know if it weren't for Kee, they wouldn't have had the Fermentasaurus to offer & improve on and I think the plastic kegs as well. It's pure jilted lover after a breakup stuff. 

Instead we're all supposed to bow at their feet because they make one product in Australia while the other 99% of their stock comes in from China.


----------



## Fro-Daddy

ozdevil said:


> fake reviews people are showing of kegland hasnt really got anything to do with keg king unless you are doing the same.


I'm pretty sure they just screen the reviews and don't allow ones with anything negative in them.


----------



## CKK

Nullnvoid said:


> Think you just summed it up right there as to what keg king should be ashamed off.
> 
> Letting you near a computer.
> [/QUOTE





TheBeerBaron said:


> I don't shop there because (like I have told CEO many times before) they have nothing I want. Pretty plain and simple. Although his behaviour would make it hard to send my hard earned dollars there.. I would probably have to buy it from the LHBS to make myself feel better.
> 
> Putting aside the bad blood and their similar offerings like FermZilla/Fermenter King, BrewZilla/Guten etc. KegLand have more unique products and seem to be innovating more like the RAPT fridge etc. along with this I've never had as issue with their product or service so I see no reason to move my custom.
> 
> I honestly think this offensive KK/CEO have been on is just pure jealousy... Deep down they know if it weren't for Kee, they wouldn't have had the Fermentasaurus to offer & improve on and I think the plastic kegs as well. It's pure jilted lover after a breakup stuff.
> 
> Instead we're all supposed to bow at their feet because they make one product in Australia while the other 99% of their stock comes in from China.


Well Evan you may think what you like but I am content with our efforts to make more and more in Australia and its a hell of a lot more than 1%. Everything we can do here will be done here and even our packaging is now made locally. I am proud of being an Australian and I am proud to support an Australian team that works hard to bring exports earnings back to our country. If you think it is fitting to denigrate such efforts and applaud those who buy from www.kegking.cn which bring no Dollars to this country you and I live in that is up to you and how you justify this when you look in your shaving mirror. Fortunately for us there are many more people who believe in what we are doing and don’t swallow the cool aid like you have.


----------



## Nullnvoid

I love how you keep promoting www.kegking.cn hahahaha.

Even making it easier by providing the hyperlink. hahahaha

****Edit**** Ok, I'm also a tosspot. It adds the hyperlink automatically. Ohh shit, I just promoted www.kegking.cn too!


----------



## TheBeerBaron

CEO Keg King said:


> Well Evan you may think what you like but I am content with our efforts to make more and more in Australia and its a hell of a lot more than 1%. Everything we can do here will be done here and even our packaging is now made locally. I am proud of being an Australian and I am proud to support an Australian team that works hard to bring exports earnings back to our country. If you think it is fitting to denigrate such efforts and applaud those who buy from www.kegking.cn which bring no Dollars to this country you and I live in that is up to you and how you justify this when you look in your shaving mirror. Fortunately for us there are many more people who believe in what we are doing and don’t swallow the cool aid like you have.



I am not denigrating your efforts, Will. It's just not the trump card you think it is. Way to concentrate on a single issue as per usual though.

As for your kegking.cn issue.. I am not sure of the ins and outs of domains but obviously you don't control that one in China. If you feel you have recourse to challenge that I would strongly suggest you do. It appears that link takes you to the KegLand China site where they are selling KegLand products with KegLand banners all over it. 

They aren't selling your products and it doesn't appear to be trying to fool people they are looking at a Keg King site. Slightly underhanded maybe but it's business Mr CEO, and it's rough out there champ.


----------



## CKK

Well only a tosspot would


TheBeerBaron said:


> I am not denigrating your efforts, Will. It's just not the trump card you think it is. Way to concentrate on a single issue as per usual though.
> 
> As for your kegking.cn issue.. I am not sure of the ins and outs of domains but obviously you don't control that one in China. If you feel you have recourse to challenge that I would strongly suggest you do. It appears that link takes you to the KegLand China site where they are selling KegLand products with KegLand banners all over it.
> 
> They aren't selling your products and it doesn't appear to be trying to fool people they are looking at a Keg King site. Slightly underhanded maybe but it's business Mr CEO, and it's rough out there champ.


Well Evan you have trolled it mercilessly and denigrated here and on FB our efforts to make Australian products even saying we import 99%. Which is very wrong.

Now you say we should sit quietly whilst our name is used in China to drag people to KegLand Products and say nothing about it? Might surprise you how many have contacted me over this and they don’t call it “slightly underhand “ as you do. They call it out for what is and what you and your fellow trollers here seem to think is a cute trick by a Chinese business to steal our potential customers. So I guess you people here don’t want profits to stay in Australia but prefer them stashed in China? At least we are providing jobs to Australians and building expertise that grows and grows. What does that Chinese business do for Australians? Laughs it’s head off as it creams people here who don’t give a damn about our country’s future and just keeps exporting their stuff and taking the money out of the country. The thankfully few tosspots here who get off on this are ones you applaud and encourage. No decent Australian would say the use of our name this way is acceptable. Believe me Champ I have done business for many years but never encountered this kind of bullshit. Just makes me more determined to do better and apart from a few like you I get a lot of support from fair minded Aussies who really like what we are doing.


----------



## mynameisrodney

I appreciate efforts to keep the profits in Australia. I have bought from you in the past, and will in the future. But for gods sake just stop the BS and shit flinging.


----------



## MHB

If you and your evil twin would just concentrate on making and selling product that people need and quit spending so much time baiting each other.
I'm sure I for one wouldn't miss the BS. From this far back most of the products are very similar, most of the prices likewise, I guess if I need anything from either of you I'm going to have to choose the least annoying.
I'm also sure I will look every else first as you are both annoying the hell out of me
Mark


----------



## wide eyed and legless

TheBeerBaron said:


> Who lost? What was the judgement? Seems KegLand are still in business so it obviously matters 3/8ths of F*** all


Yes they are still in business, might not matter 3/8ths of FA to you, but it certainly hurt KL's pocket. If you go into business best to do it with honesty, pays off in the end, now KL has upset Perlick and they are putting a case together. Perlick has already sent out letters to distributors demanding royalties for the Intertap Flow control tap which they have sold and the remainder unsold to be destroyed. Not fair on the distributors buying a product in good faith, much like yourself and hundreds of others who have bought the FermZilla.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Nullnvoid said:


> Exactly the same here.


Is that why your photo is on the counter at Keg King?


----------



## Nullnvoid

wide eyed and legless said:


> Is that why your photo is on the counter at Keg King?



I say what now? 

Is it the one when I'm in the nude?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Looks like a selfie with your fizzog right in front of the camera.
I think you had better get a haircut and shave your beard off.


----------



## Nullnvoid

wide eyed and legless said:


> Looks like a selfie with your fizzog right in front of the camera.
> I think you had better get a haircut and shave your beard off.




I'm flattered. I assume it's for when I come to collect a prize?


----------



## Fro-Daddy

wide eyed and legless said:


> Perlick has already sent out letters to distributors demanding royalties for the Intertap Flow control tap which they have sold and the remainder unsold to be destroyed.


I assume this includes KK and any other home brew shops?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Fro-Daddy said:


> I assume this includes KK and any other home brew shops?


Not sure about HB shops, mainly distributors. Those in USA are showing out of stock I would imagine KK has been drawn into this as they had stock prior 2018.


----------



## CKK

Nullnvoid said:


> I say what now?
> 
> Is it the one when I'm in the nude?


Nothing to see there I imagine


----------



## Meddo

Come on guys. There's been nothing of value in this thread for months. How about everyone just lets it go unless there's something new and worthwhile to add.


----------



## Nullnvoid

CEO Keg King said:


> Nothing to see there I imagine



You imagine me in the nude! I'm touched.


----------



## CKK

Nullnvoid said:


> You imagine me in the nude! I'm touched.


All I could see was null and void


----------



## TheBeerBaron

CEO Keg King said:


> Now you say we should sit quietly whilst our name is used in China to drag people to KegLand Products and say nothing about it?



Did you even read what I posted? And I have never denigrated you for making things in Australia.. I have pointed out that doesn't mean we all need to lay at your feet. Also, the only troll around here is you.. Remember that fake account you gave yourself up on? 



wide eyed and legless said:


> Yes they are still in business, might not matter 3/8ths of FA to you, but it certainly hurt KL's pocket. If you go into business best to do it with honesty, pays off in the end, now KL has upset Perlick and they are putting a case together. Perlick has already sent out letters to distributors demanding royalties for the Intertap Flow control tap which they have sold and the remainder unsold to be destroyed. Not fair on the distributors buying a product in good faith, much like yourself and hundreds of others who have bought the FermZilla.



Samsung was ordered to pay Apple something like half a billion dollars for patent issues but as far as I am aware they aren't listed as a terrorist organisation yet?


----------



## pecanbery

So I have a stupid question about the fermzilla pressure kit carbonation caps. I want to transfer the beer (after venting to a slightly lower pressure) to flip top bottles, and I like the idea of the floating dip tube to avoid trub. What equipment do I need to buy to connect to one of the pressure carb caps so that I can turn it on/off as I move to each bottle? Right now I'm just brewing ginger beer because it's simpler but I bought the pressure kit because I want to brew NEIPAs at some point in the future when I get more experience. For now I'd just love a simple way to bottle this ginger beer. I know bottling this way will mean losing carbonation, introducing oxygen and require priming sugar but indulge me please


----------



## mynameisrodney

A ball lock disconnect, a bottling wand, and some tubing to join them should be fine. You'd want to keep the pressure very low though I think.


----------



## Grmblz

mynameisrodney said:


> We were not talking about serving. You were telling me to give the FKJ a go so that I don't have to do something which takes a few seconds with my fermzilla, which I use as a fermenter. Stop moving the goalposts. The FKJ may be a great product, but it is not a replacement for anything in the fermzilla range. To me it's like a spork, something that does an ok job at 2 things but not great at either of them. If it works for you, that's great, but it doesnt change anything to do with the fermzilla, which is the subject of this thread.
> 
> It is misleading similar to making a statement "Don't buy a Toyota, they all break down eventually". All cars will break down eventually. Trying to convince people to move away from a brand because of something which effects all the competitors too is misleading.
> 
> The bit that I have difficulty with is why there are so many people with their knickers in a twist over the whole KK/KL thing that it is impossible to read a thread without it being full of BS. From both sides.


Settle down Princess, have a cold beer and re-read our conversation, your KL fan boi crap is getting old.


----------



## mynameisrodney

Just give up and move on. I quite clearly have said I hate the shit from both sides, you are the fan boi here.


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

pecanbery said:


> So I have a stupid question about the fermzilla pressure kit carbonation caps. I want to transfer the beer (after venting to a slightly lower pressure) to flip top bottles, and I like the idea of the floating dip tube to avoid trub. What equipment do I need to buy to connect to one of the pressure carb caps so that I can turn it on/off as I move to each bottle? Right now I'm just brewing ginger beer because it's simpler but I bought the pressure kit because I want to brew NEIPAs at some point in the future when I get more experience. For now I'd just love a simple way to bottle this ginger beer. I know bottling this way will mean losing carbonation, introducing oxygen and require priming sugar but indulge me please


Bottling gun like this, 









Bottle Filler Beer Gun


Have a keg of beer, but want to fill some bottles to take with you to the game, beach, or friend's house? The BeerGun is a great way to fill bottles from a keg. Every part that comes into contact with your beer is stainless steel. This unit features a CO2 purge, which helps to prevent oxidation...




www.kegland.com.au





Should work if you want to shut the flow off between bottles. The bottle wand is cheaper but it might not work if the liquid is under a bit of pressure. The gun can also purge with c02 before filling.


----------



## onemorecell

CEO Keg King said:


> Nothing to see there I imagine


cock size jokes. very professional


----------



## CKK

onemorecell said:


> cock size jokes. very professional


who said there was a nude pic and speculated on my imagination hmmh? Look enough of this and just leave it so people can get to what this should really be about which is brewing kit and making good beers. Let me be the first to say sorry for rising to the baiting and have the decency to just leave it. Agree with GRMBLZ - just have a beer.


----------



## Nullnvoid

CEO Keg King said:


> who said there was a nude pic and speculated on my imagination hmmh? Look enough of this and just leave it so people can get to what this should really be about which is brewing kit and making good beers. Let me be the first to say sorry for rising to the baiting and have the decency to just leave it. Agree with GRMBLZ - just have a beer.



I think it was your employee Wide Eyed and Legless who said there was a picture of me on the counter of Keg-King. Maybe you should control your employees.


----------



## CKK

Nullnvoid said:


> I think it was your employee Wide Eyed and Legless who said there was a picture of me on the counter of Keg-King. Maybe you should control your employees.


Just leave it and have a beer.


----------



## malt and barley blues

Nullnvoid said:


> I think it was your employee Wide Eyed and Legless who said there was a picture of me on the counter of Keg-King. Maybe you should control your employees.


I doubt WEAL would travel all the way from Trentham, even without the road blocks. 
I did wonder who the photo was, I thought it was lifted from CCTV.


----------



## Nullnvoid

malt and barley blues said:


> I doubt WEAL would travel all the way from Trentham, even without the road blocks.
> I did wonder who the photo was, I thought it was lifted from CCTV.



WEAL lives in Mulgrave.

You guys almost make me want to go down to Keg-King just to see this picture. Guessing I would be shot on site though.


----------



## frosty3

onemorecell said:


> @pauly i think you hit the nail on the head
> I used to be impartial about KL/KK, but exactly the same as you, I don't want a bar of KK anymore for the same reason.
> 
> good luck with your fermenter and, if/when it does **** up, just get a stainless


Totally agree. I’ve decided never to buy from kk again because of “awfulknauful” crap and a few others. Doing more harm to KK than good.


----------



## CKK

Nullnvoid said:


> WEAL lives in Mulgrave.
> 
> You guys almost make me want to go down to Keg-King just to see this picture. Guessing I would be shot on site though.


Why don’t you come? I would love to meet you and I mean that sincerely.


----------



## malt and barley blues

Nullnvoid said:


> WEAL lives in Mulgrave.
> 
> You guys almost make me want to go down to Keg-King just to see this picture. Guessing I would be shot on site though.


His holiday house is in Trentham, he's been working on that.


----------



## awfulknauful

frosty3 said:


> Totally agree. I’ve decided never to buy from kk again because of “awfulknauful” crap and a few others. Doing more harm to KK than good.


Truth hurts does it not? I was a swinger, didn't care where I bought but after a let down with the FermZilla, then the MaltZilla luckily never got roped in by that one, I along with many others are dissappointed with the KL products, and the way they go about their business and will never buy from them again. Seeing there are many thousands more Fermentasaurus sold without complaint, and the FermZilla users claiming "User error" for the FermZilla I along with many others tend to believe the user error is using them.


----------



## frosty3

awfulknauful said:


> Truth hurts does it not? I was a swinger, didn't care where I bought but after a let down with the FermZilla, then the MaltZilla luckily never got roped in by that one, I along with many others are dissappointed with the KL products, and the way they go about their business and will never buy from them again. Seeing there are many thousands more Fermentasaurus sold without complaint, and the FermZilla users claiming "User error" for the FermZilla I along with many others tend to believe the user error is using them.



I did say I’d never buy anything again from kk aka keg king. You know the company you endorse products for while belittling anyone who has a product from any other company on a thread that has nothing to do with kk. As I said before doing more harm than good.


----------



## Grmblz

mynameisrodney said:


> Just give up and move on. I quite clearly have said I hate the shit from both sides, you are the fan boi here.


You obviously haven't done any homework pal, if you had taken the time to check before spouting off you would have found I was banned from comment on the KK thread, hardly a fan boi.
I call it the way I see it for both teams, and if that upsets you do us both a favour, click the "ignore button"


----------



## awfulknauful

frosty3 said:


> I did say I’d never buy anything again from kk aka keg king. You know the company you endorse products for while belittling anyone who has a product from any other company on a thread that has nothing to do with kk. As I said before doing more harm than good.


The threads about the FermZilla I doubt anyone gives a rats arse where you will and won't buy from. You have only had yours 5 minutes, and never even had a Fermentasaurus. I have had both so can compare. The Fermantasaurus is over 2 years old and still going strong, the FermZilla never even got out of the starting gate, I was willing to give it a go waited long enough to get it. Stress fractures around the neck and a large permanent dent, wait and see if yours will go the distance Beer Baron's didn't.


----------



## Nullnvoid

See, they can be friends!


----------



## pecanbery

Well my Fermzilla arrived and the butterfly valve piece seems to be defective, not even water tight without pressure added.. pretty disappointing. Spent half a day trying to get it to seal properly before noticing a bump on it that would stop the o-ring sealing properly.

Let's see how warranty goes...


----------



## BrewsWayne

*KegLand FermZilla vs KegKing Fermenter King G3: Observations and Comparisons*


I purchased two, 27L FermZillas from More Beer in August 2019. Problems came up right away. There were multiple difficulties with trying to get the fermenters to hold pressure. First problem was the seal from the top cap to the fermenter body.

KegLand came up with a solution that involved buying another, thicker O ring. The O ring costs $1.00 AU$ or $0.70US. MoreBeer charges $3.00US. Williams Brewing charges $0.75US. The thicker O ring makes it very hard to remove the top cap now. KegLand suggests loosening the outer ring and using a screw driver under a carb cap to pry up the top cap.

The next problem was using the stainless steel pressure kits for gas in and liquid out. They are repurposed carbonation caps. The Fermzilla does not have a large enough lip for the gasket on the SS carb cap to seal effectively. The gasket tends to fold down into the fermenter. The solution was to not use the SS caps but to buy plastic caps that do not have a gasket, using the plastic body of the cap to seal. These had to be tightened very, very tight, or they would leak. Getting them that tight would usually deform the body of the carb cap.

The caps sell at 10 for $1.95 AU$ or $1.40US each at KegLand. More Beer charges $6.00US each.

With those changes, my Fermzillas were finally able to hold pressure.

I wanted to use the Fermzillas with a glycol chiller for temperature control. I needed to buy the KegLand thermoprobe and TempTwister cooling coil. At the time, one had to drill out the lid for the FermZilla. There are spaces marked on the interior of the lid to show where to drill. KegLand has a video showing how to do this using a handheld drill. I tried this and could not get the drill to stay centered. I ended up having to use my drill press and clamps with a second lid I had to purchase.

I now see the Williams Brewing is offering a predrilled lid for the FermZilla for $6.99. MoreBeer only offers the undrilled lid for $8.99.

Finally, in December, I was able to connect the FermZillas to my glycol system and brew into them. I brewed about 20 times with them until I noticed some stress cracks forming around the top neck area. I contacted MoreBeer and they quickly sent out the new design replacement bottles. They did not come with the graduation sticker to show the volume in the fermenter. These do not have the flat top of the original FermZilla, but are more rounded.

When I went to take apart the original FermZillas to replace the bottles, one of the valve assemblies, simply would not come apart. I tried all the hints suggested in the KegLand video on how to dissasemble the FermZilla and nothing would work. I gave up and ordered a new assembly.

The other FermZilla came apart with no problem and I was able to reassemble it using minimal amounts of torque. I tested it with just pressure for 48 hours and then with water, with no leaking. However, when I was going to take off the collection chamber, I foolishly left the butterfly valve open and the handle ended up breaking the collection chamber when the carb cap hit it. I managed to destroy the other collection chamber when I, again foolishly, tried to use the SS carb caps with a different gasket. I kept tightening the cap to prevent leaking, untill the threaded assembly just broke away from the chamber. Another order went in for three collection chambers, so I would have a spare, seeing how easily they break.

I was able to start using them again, about two weeks ago.

A couple of months ago, Will Fiala], @CEO Keg King, was asking if there was anyone who cared to try out the KegKing Fermenter King G3 on HBT, I contacted him and after some conversations, he arranged to have a unit shipped to me with a cooling coil included.

It took some time to arrive and I had some personal issues come up, but I finally got to brew into it this week.

Here are some comparisons between the two fermenters:






The 27L FermZilla is roughly 32" tall to the top of the carb caps. It is 14" in diameter The main body PET is roughly 2.6mm thick.

The G3 is 37" tall to the top of the thremoprobe/valve. It is roughly 14.8" in diameter. The PET is roughly 5.8mm thick.

The FermZilla cone is 45 degrees. The G3 is 60 degrees.

The top opening of the FermZilla is roughly 4.75" wide. The G3 is 3.5" wide.

The FermZilla uses a complex bottom connection to a 3" butterfly valve. The G3 is a simpler connection using a plunge valve.

The Fermzilla has a collection chamber that holds 1 liter and has the ability to add carb caps so you can release any pressure in the container before removing it. You could also use the two caps to add CO2 and purge the chamber of air before you open the valve to add dry hops of anything else.

The G3 has a 1/2 liter collection bottle. There is no ability to purge the bottle. The G3 does come with an adapter to add 2 inch Tri-Clover accessories to the bottom of the fermenter.

The FermZilla cooling coil is 6 meters total length, it is about 4.3" in diameter and 26.7 " high. It is VERY tight getting it into the FermZilla with the dip tube. The tube and float valve does get caught between the coils at times. The dip tube does pull put trub that is on the cone of the fermenter. Kegland has introduced an extension screen in Oz but it has not arrives in the states yet. The top third of the coil is above the fermenting beer.

The G3 coil is smaller than the Fermzilla, but it is angled off to the side. The plunge valve/thermo probe assembly has a ring around it the the dip tube and float attatch to. This will prevent the tube from pulling up any trub from the side of the fermenter.
I have only just brewed into the G3 this week. I can say there was no problem with the coil dropping the wort down 10 degrees within 1 hour to fermenting temp. It has held fermenting temp within 1 degree F all week.

The FermZilla is an very good concept with rather poor execution. KegLand seems to have put out a Beta version and attempted to fix the problems after the release.

The G3 took longer to come out but it has none of the leaking or poor material problems of the FermZilla.

At this point, there is little to no availability of the Keg King products in the US. The Beverage People are supposed to offer the full line shortly. @CEO Keg King is looking for additional retailers/distributors.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

awfulknauful said:


> Beer Baron's didn't.



Please don't misquote me. I ruined my FermZilla using the wrong cleaning chemicals, soaking for too long. 

It did have those marks in the neck but was still functioning perfectly.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

BrewsWayne said:


> none of the leaking or poor material problems of the FermZilla.



I've seen one person who had a leaking issue with the lower valve on his G3. I don't think it was an issue with the product as such, but goes to show G3 isn't foolproof either. Much like over tightening carb caps until they snap off, some things are just user error. There definitely appears to be a broad spectrum of users with the FermZilla with issues ranging from Zero to many. Perhaps once the G3 filters more into the market more varied reviews will surface.

The G3 seems like a decent product but I am yet to see anything to say one is definitively 'better' than the other. I personally prefer the lower container set up of the FermZilla having the ability to purge it before opening lower valve again. 

I know Dr Hans was sent a G3 a long time ago and I am yet to see his video review of it. This is strange to me as he previewed it along side a bunch of others which have been followed up with reviews. I wonder if he is having issues with it?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

TheBeerBaron said:


> Please don't misquote me. I ruined my FermZilla using the wrong cleaning chemicals, soaking for too long.
> 
> It did have those marks in the neck but was still functioning perfectly.





wide eyed and legless said:


> I think we do know the ones failing haven't had been abused by hotter than spec water, chemicals, problems with UV or been to quickly cooled from a high temperature, just going by the law of averages there should be roughly the same listed complaints and photos about the
> Fementasaurus/Fermenter king. On the other hand the idiots who should have been buying the idiot proof ones you mentioned could have gone out and bought a FermZilla.



I rest my case.



BrewsWayne said:


> *KegLand FermZilla vs KegKing Fermenter King G3: Observations and Comparisons*
> 
> 
> I purchased two, 27L FermZillas from More Beer in August 2019. Problems came up right away. There were multiple difficulties with trying to get the fermenters to hold pressure. First problem was the seal from the top cap to the fermenter body.
> 
> KegLand came up with a solution that involved buying another, thicker O ring. The O ring costs $1.00 AU$ or $0.70US. MoreBeer charges $3.00US. Williams Brewing charges $0.75US. The thicker O ring makes it very hard to remove the top cap now. KegLand suggests loosening the outer ring and using a screw driver under a carb cap to pry up the top cap.
> 
> The next problem was using the stainless steel pressure kits for gas in and liquid out. They are repurposed carbonation caps. The Fermzilla does not have a large enough lip for the gasket on the SS carb cap to seal effectively. The gasket tends to fold down into the fermenter. The solution was to not use the SS caps but to buy plastic caps that do not have a gasket, using the plastic body of the cap to seal. These had to be tightened very, very tight, or they would leak. Getting them that tight would usually deform the body of the carb cap.
> 
> The caps sell at 10 for $1.95 AU$ or $1.40US each at KegLand. More Beer charges $6.00US each.
> 
> With those changes, my Fermzillas were finally able to hold pressure.
> 
> I wanted to use the Fermzillas with a glycol chiller for temperature control. I needed to buy the KegLand thermoprobe and TempTwister cooling coil. At the time, one had to drill out the lid for the FermZilla. There are spaces marked on the interior of the lid to show where to drill. KegLand has a video showing how to do this using a handheld drill. I tried this and could not get the drill to stay centered. I ended up having to use my drill press and clamps with a second lid I had to purchase.
> 
> I now see the Williams Brewing is offering a predrilled lid for the FermZilla for $6.99. MoreBeer only offers the undrilled lid for $8.99.
> 
> Finally, in December, I was able to connect the FermZillas to my glycol system and brew into them. I brewed about 20 times with them until I noticed some stress cracks forming around the top neck area. I contacted MoreBeer and they quickly sent out the new design replacement bottles. They did not come with the graduation sticker to show the volume in the fermenter. These do not have the flat top of the original FermZilla, but are more rounded.
> 
> When I went to take apart the original FermZillas to replace the bottles, one of the valve assemblies, simply would not come apart. I tried all the hints suggested in the KegLand video on how to dissasemble the FermZilla and nothing would work. I gave up and ordered a new assembly.
> 
> The other FermZilla came apart with no problem and I was able to reassemble it using minimal amounts of torque. I tested it with just pressure for 48 hours and then with water, with no leaking. However, when I was going to take off the collection chamber, I foolishly left the butterfly valve open and the handle ended up breaking the collection chamber when the carb cap hit it. I managed to destroy the other collection chamber when I, again foolishly, tried to use the SS carb caps with a different gasket. I kept tightening the cap to prevent leaking, untill the threaded assembly just broke away from the chamber. Another order went in for three collection chambers, so I would have a spare, seeing how easily they break.
> 
> I was able to start using them again, about two weeks ago.
> 
> A couple of months ago, Will Fiala], @CEO Keg King, was asking if there was anyone who cared to try out the KegKing Fermenter King G3 on HBT, I contacted him and after some conversations, he arranged to have a unit shipped to me with a cooling coil included.
> 
> It took some time to arrive and I had some personal issues come up, but I finally got to brew into it this week.
> 
> Here are some comparisons between the two fermenters:
> 
> View attachment 118618
> 
> 
> The 27L FermZilla is roughly 32" tall to the top of the carb caps. It is 14" in diameter The main body PET is roughly 2.6mm thick.
> 
> The G3 is 37" tall to the top of the thremoprobe/valve. It is roughly 14.8" in diameter. The PET is roughly 5.8mm thick.
> 
> The FermZilla cone is 45 degrees. The G3 is 60 degrees.
> 
> The top opening of the FermZilla is roughly 4.75" wide. The G3 is 3.5" wide.
> 
> The FermZilla uses a complex bottom connection to a 3" butterfly valve. The G3 is a simpler connection using a plunge valve.
> 
> The Fermzilla has a collection chamber that holds 1 liter and has the ability to add carb caps so you can release any pressure in the container before removing it. You could also use the two caps to add CO2 and purge the chamber of air before you open the valve to add dry hops of anything else.
> 
> The G3 has a 1/2 liter collection bottle. There is no ability to purge the bottle. The G3 does come with an adapter to add 2 inch Tri-Clover accessories to the bottom of the fermenter.
> 
> The FermZilla cooling coil is 6 meters total length, it is about 4.3" in diameter and 26.7 " high. It is VERY tight getting it into the FermZilla with the dip tube. The tube and float valve does get caught between the coils at times. The dip tube does pull put trub that is on the cone of the fermenter. Kegland has introduced an extension screen in Oz but it has not arrives in the states yet. The top third of the coil is above the fermenting beer.
> 
> The G3 coil is smaller than the Fermzilla, but it is angled off to the side. The plunge valve/thermo probe assembly has a ring around it the the dip tube and float attatch to. This will prevent the tube from pulling up any trub from the side of the fermenter.
> I have only just brewed into the G3 this week. I can say there was no problem with the coil dropping the wort down 10 degrees within 1 hour to fermenting temp. It has held fermenting temp within 1 degree F all week.
> 
> The FermZilla is an very good concept with rather poor execution. KegLand seems to have put out a Beta version and attempted to fix the problems after the release.
> 
> The G3 took longer to come out but it has none of the leaking or poor material problems of the FermZilla.
> 
> At this point, there is little to no availability of the Keg King products in the US. The Beverage People are supposed to offer the full line shortly. @CEO Keg King is looking for additional retailers/distributors.


A fair and comprehensive review by someone who has used both.


----------



## CKK

TheBeerBaron said:


> I've seen one person who had a leaking issue with the lower valve on his G3. I don't think it was an issue with the product as such, but goes to show G3 isn't foolproof either. Much like over tightening carb caps until they snap off, some things are just user error. There definitely appears to be a broad spectrum of users with the FermZilla with issues ranging from Zero to many. Perhaps once the G3 filters more into the market more varied reviews will surface.
> 
> The G3 seems like a decent product but I am yet to see anything to say one is definitively 'better' than the other. I personally prefer the lower container set up of the FermZilla having the ability to purge it before opening lower valve again.
> 
> I know Dr Hans was sent a G3 a long time ago and I am yet to see his video review of it. This is strange to me as he previewed it along side a bunch of others which have been followed up with reviews. I wonder if he is having issues with it?


You can stop wondering. Pre-production products are sent out to help iron out problems and not for review. He is about to get production models and I think it will not be long before he will show them. At least they don’t have stress cracks in the neck area where bacteria can survive and they do not exhibit catastrophic explosions.


----------



## Fro-Daddy

@awfulknauful Instead of just pics, post the users explanation as well.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

wide eyed and legless said:


> I rest my case



Which was.... ?



Fro-Daddy said:


> post the users explanation as well



Don't let the truth get in the way of a good story!!


----------



## TheBeerBaron

CEO Keg King said:


> You can stop wondering. Pre-production products are sent out to help iron out problems and not for review. He is about to get production models and I think it will not be long before he will show them. At least they don’t have stress cracks in the neck area where bacteria can survive and they do not exhibit catastrophic explosions.



What was the differences if any between what he got & production? Funny he didn't mention it was pre-production and not for review... why even post that up ?

I will be interested to see his thoughts


----------



## CKK

TheBeerBaron said:


> What was the differences if any between what he got & production? Funny he didn't mention it was pre-production and not for review... why even post that up ?
> 
> I will be interested to see his thoughts


He is his own doctor but we were not in a hurry to have him review something that was still having tweaks done to it. Unlike David Heath who "reviewed - if you can call it that" our products that we asked him not to review we find the Doc is a man of his word. No doubt he will do it when he is good and ready.


----------



## BrewsWayne

> I personally prefer the lower container set up of the FermZilla having the ability to purge it before opening lower valve again.



I agree with you, TheBeerBaron. I hope that we in the US will get the Kegland "2 inch Tri-Clover Harvest Adapter" for the collection container so I can use it with the G3.


----------



## frosty3

awfulknauful said:


> The threads about the FermZilla I doubt anyone gives a rats arse where you will and won't buy from. You have only had yours 5 minutes, and never even had a Fermentasaurus. I have had both so can compare. The Fermantasaurus is over 2 years old and still going strong, the FermZilla never even got out of the starting gate, I was willing to give it a go waited long enough to get it. Stress fractures around the neck and a large permanent dent, wait and see if yours will go the distance Beer Baron's didn't.
> View attachment 118606
> 
> View attachment 118607
> 
> View attachment 118608


ok jason I’ll let you know if it explodes.


----------



## Nullnvoid

CEO Keg King said:


> He is his own doctor but we were not in a hurry to have him review something that was still having tweaks done to it. Unlike David Heath who "reviewed - if you can call it that" our products that we asked him not to review we find the Doc is a man of his word. No doubt he will do it when he is good and ready.


He is painful to watch, he better not be a doctor


----------



## Nullnvoid

Can't wait for one of the KK employees to find the latest explosion on Facebook and put a picture up here.


----------



## Fro-Daddy

I just saw it, pretty impressive!


----------



## Nullnvoid

Fro-Daddy said:


> I just saw it, pretty impressive!


Sure was!


----------



## malt and barley blues

Fro-Daddy said:


> I just saw it, pretty impressive!


User error, as BB would say.


----------



## donald_trub

Fro-Daddy said:


> I just saw it, pretty impressive!



Not excusing KL at all... if it says it can handle 34 PSI, then it should... but why on earth does this guy need 20 PSI to simply transfer his beer? That seems like madness to me. Secondly, that banana peel he's created looks way more than 20 PSI!


----------



## Fro-Daddy

donald_trub said:


> Secondly, that banana peel he's created looks way more than 20 PSI!


How the entire lid is separate confuses me, I'm thinking there was a lot more pressure as well.

Are there any videos of pressure testing any of the PET units until failure?


----------



## CKK

donald_trub said:


> Not excusing KL at all... if it says it can handle 34 PSI, then it should... but why on earth does this guy need 20 PSI to simply transfer his beer? That seems like madness to me. Secondly, that banana peel he's created looks way more than 20 PSI!


You are right that to transfer beer one does not need a lot. However I can always see the scenario where a bit of trub or something clogs the line and you and I both know the first reaction will be to turn the pressure up. Where the neck joins the tank is a very important part of the structure and the manufacturing process where the PET is reheated leaves those stress cracks which indicate that this area is very vulnerable. For a tank like this to blow before the PRV activates to release the pressure is a design fault and a manufacturing fault.


----------



## Meddo

The PRVs used in these vessels release gas quite slowly through a small orifice - depending on the pressure level it's certainly conceivable that the PRV might not be able to release pressure quickly enough to prevent damage.

Not commenting on specific models or incidents, just a general observation.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Could be the stress fractures around the male threading on the....... beat me to it.


----------



## CKK

Meddo said:


> The PRVs used in these vessels release gas quite slowly through a small orifice - depending on the pressure level it's certainly conceivable that the PRV might not be able to release pressure quickly enough to prevent damage.
> 
> Not commenting on specific models or incidents, just a general observation.


Let me run a test on this and I will let you know how that goes. We have never had one of ours fall apart like this. In fact during the high pressure Destructive testing on our 60 litre units the neck ring cracked before the vessel and that was over 5 bar.


----------



## donald_trub

CEO Keg King said:


> We have never had one of ours fall apart like this.



You've also never had a customer base anywhere near as large as Kegland's. We're talking giant multiples the size of yours here. They are dominating the market and have a massive amount of people brand new to brewing getting into pressure fermenting when they should probably stick to buckets for a while.



CEO Keg King said:


> and you and I both know the first reaction will be to turn the pressure up



Maybe that's your first reaction but I would connect the gas to the floating dip tube and blow it back through the other way.

It's clear as day that we're not looking at 20 PSI here, so stop talking about design flaws in other people's products and focus on yourselves.


----------



## CKK

donald_trub said:


> You've also never had a customer base anywhere near as large as Kegland's. We're talking giant multiples the size of yours here. They are dominating the market and have a massive amount of people brand new to brewing getting into pressure fermenting when they should probably stick to buckets for a while.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe that's your first reaction but I would connect the gas to the floating dip tube and blow it back through the other way.
> 
> It's clear as day that we're not looking at 20 PSI here, so stop talking about design flaws in other people's products and focus on yourselves.


That is just conjecture on your part unless you have some figures to prove it. Our products have actually been selling much longer in any case. On what basis is it not 20 psi? Plenty of people in Europe seeing catastrophic failures with even less presssure. Trust me that reheating PET is not a good way to have strength in the end product. That is not arguable.

Not sure what makes you an authority on who is allowed to pressure brew or not. If its not fit for a beginner then it should at least carry plenty of warnings about this would you not agree?


----------



## Meddo

Also regarding pressures used for transfer, I regularly pressurise the vessel to 2 bar to transfer carbonated beer via a filter to the receiving keg. I carbonate at around 0.8 bar while cold conditioning (I like many of my beers on the spritzy side), then set the high side pressure to 2 bar and the pressure relief on the receiving keg to 1.4-1.6 bar. This allows enough pressure differential across the filter that it doesn't take all day to transfer, but the receiving vessel is still pressurised well above the carbonation level of the beer to prevent breakout. Could probably use somewhat lower pressures but they're round numbers, easy to see on the gauge, and the three settings should be outside the margins of error on the gauges so as not to overlap unintentionally.


----------



## donald_trub

CEO Keg King said:


> Our products have actually been selling much longer in any case.



That's right, back from when Kee designed the original Fermentasaurus.



CEO Keg King said:


> On what basis is it not 20 psi?


Because it's exploded with nuclear force. Anyone can see that isn't 20 PSI and if you can't, maybe it's time to pack up shop because clearly you have no idea.

I never said I was an authority on who is allowed to do what, but merely providing an explanation that there are a tonne of people buying Kegland stuff. There are plenty of warnings on these devices already so I'm not sure what you're talking about there.



CEO Keg King said:


> That is just conjecture on your part unless you have some figures to prove it.



Let's see... Google search analytics is showing double the search volume for Kegland compared to Keg King. Kegland's Facebook group is 10.6 times larger than your Facebook group. The numbers look even more grim if we count in the other Kegland focused groups such as the Brewzilla and Fermzilla groups (and of course factor in any associated KK groups). They have a tonne of fans out there and you're completely delusional if you think you're coming anywhere near that market share. They're currently the most innovative company in homebrewing, perhaps on a global scale. Funnily enough that innovation all started back from Kee worked for KK.

The fact is they have droves of beginner brewers coming to them and picking up these products that are slightly more advanced and require an understanding of physics that most don't have.


----------



## CKK

donald_trub said:


> That's right, back from when Kee designed the original Fermentasaurus.
> 
> 
> Because it's exploded with nuclear force. Anyone can see that isn't 20 PSI and if you can't, maybe it's time to pack up shop because clearly you have no idea.
> 
> I never said I was an authority on who is allowed to do what, but merely providing an explanation that there are a tonne of people buying Kegland stuff. There are plenty of warnings on these devices already so I'm not sure what you're talking about there.
> 
> 
> 
> Let's see... Google search analytics is showing double the search volume for Kegland compared to Keg King. Kegland's Facebook group is 10.6 times larger than your Facebook group. The numbers look even more grim if we count in the other Kegland focused groups such as the Brewzilla and Fermzilla groups (and of course factor in any associated KK groups). They have a tonne of fans out there and you're completely delusional if you think you're coming anywhere near that market share. They're currently the most innovative company in homebrewing, perhaps on a global scale. Funnily enough that innovation all started back from Kee worked for KK.
> 
> The fact is they have droves of beginner brewers coming to them and picking up these products that are slightly more advanced and require an understanding of physics that most don't have.


Nuclear force has not been required to blow them from any other pictures people have published so I am quite happy to accept the 20psi as I think most others are. 

Now just go to the Kegland thread and see all the goings on about fake reviews etc. Even their use of www.kegking.cn shows how dodgy such approaches are. I remember how our kegs were made out to be bad and it was not even our keg. Same with taps - fake corrosion pics. They even still use our trademarks to try and drive website traffic to them. Maybe you think that is innovative?

With all your inside knowledge its obvious you have a fairly close association with Kee and Kegland so objectivity is most likely out the window. Tons of fans really? Tons of pissed of FZ customers who have lost a lot of beer and their faith in PET vessels. Guess it depends from where you sit as to what you see or want to see.


----------



## CKK

Meddo said:


> Also regarding pressures used for transfer, I regularly pressurise the vessel to 2 bar to transfer carbonated beer via a filter to the receiving keg. I carbonate at around 0.8 bar while cold conditioning (I like many of my beers on the spritzy side), then set the high side pressure to 2 bar and the pressure relief on the receiving keg to 1.4-1.6 bar. This allows enough pressure differential across the filter that it doesn't take all day to transfer, but the receiving vessel is still pressurised well above the carbonation level of the beer to prevent breakout. Could probably use somewhat lower pressures but they're round numbers, easy to see on the gauge, and the three settings should be outside the margins of error on the gauges so as not to overlap unintentionally.


Well that would be about 29 psi Meddo which I think the tank should easily handle. Sounds an ok way to do it from where I stand.


----------



## Meddo

CEO Keg King said:


> Well that would be about 29 psi Meddo which I think the tank should easily handle. Sounds an ok way to do it from where I stand.


Yeah it's will within rated working pressure, just addressing the scepticism about why someone would use that sort of pressure. Just because YOU don't do something (the generic "you", not you Will) doesn't mean someone else doesn't have a good reason to do so.


----------



## donald_trub

CEO Keg King said:


> With all your inside knowledge its obvious you have a fairly close association with Kee and Kegland


If you actually checked the other thread you'd realise I was the one who raised the fake reviews and have been very critical of them throughout that whole thread. Just as I'm doing to you here. The difference is Kegland don't seem to argue with their customer base like this.

It's not our problem you didn't protect your trademarks globally, so stop mentioning it. Take them to court if you think you have a legal standing. I'm guessing you don't have a case which is why you spend your time bitching about it here instead.



CEO Keg King said:


> ons of fans really?



Yes, like I said. More than 10 times the fans that KegKing have. They are doing a lot of things right.


----------



## malt and barley blues

donald_trub said:


> You've also never had a customer base anywhere near as large as Kegland's. We're talking giant multiples the size of yours here. They are dominating the market and have a massive amount of people brand new to brewing getting into pressure fermenting when they should probably stick to buckets for a while.


Quite common for companies to have what is known as 'initial momentum' the hardest part is keeping it.



donald_trub said:


> That's right, back from when Kee designed the original Fermentasaurus.
> 
> Because it's exploded with nuclear force.
> 
> The fact is they have droves of beginner brewers coming to them and picking up these products that are slightly more advanced and require an understanding of physics that most don't have.


Sorry to disappoint you Kee didn't come up with the idea of conical plastic fermenters that was Fastferment.





The FermZilla is fitted with a safety PRV 34 PSI so should be able to withstand a far greater pressure than the 34 PSI, with so many fermenter bodies tearing apart, (one was at 10 PSI) there is a problem, and a brewer with a Masters in Physics will be at just as much risk.. I know a lot of pics posted are the collection bottles with the valve closed but there have been quite a few where the fermenter body has ripped apart.


----------



## donald_trub

I never said Kee invented plastic pressure fermenting, but Kee developed the Fermentasaurus while at Keg King. Whether they like it or not, it's his legacy and they wouldn't have such a product if it wasn't for him. The innovation carries on over at Kegland while Keg King keeps themselves busy arguing with homebrewers in their competitor's thread.


----------



## malt and barley blues

donald_trub said:


> I never said Kee invented plastic pressure fermenting, but Kee developed the Fermentasaurus while at Keg King. Whether they like it or not, it's his legacy and they wouldn't have such a product if it wasn't for him. The innovation carries on over at Kegland while Keg King keeps themselves busy arguing with homebrewers in their competitor's thread.


I know he didn't invent plastic pressure fermenting, I am just showing you where the idea came from for the Fermentasaurus. Like most other things, even when he was at KK they were copied or blatant patent infringements. Don't know how long you have known him but I have known him a long time. I am not surprised to read that Perlick are pissed off for him copying their Flow Control valve.


----------



## CKK

donald_trub said:


> If you actually checked the other thread you'd realise I was the one who raised the fake reviews and have been very critical of them throughout that whole thread. Just as I'm doing to you here. The difference is Kegland don't seem to argue with their customer base like this.
> 
> It's not our problem you didn't protect your trademarks globally, so stop mentioning it. Take them to court if you think you have a legal standing. I'm guessing you don't have a case which is why you spend your time bitching about it here instead.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, like I said. More than 10 times the fans that KegKing have. They are doing a lot of things right.


They are using our trademarks registered and protected locally and yes we are going to court if they don't stop so you guessed wrong - again. Enough said.


----------



## CKK

donald_trub said:


> I never said Kee invented plastic pressure fermenting, but Kee developed the Fermentasaurus while at Keg King. Whether they like it or not, it's his legacy and they wouldn't have such a product if it wasn't for him. The innovation carries on over at Kegland while Keg King keeps themselves busy arguing with homebrewers in their competitor's thread.


Hardly an innovation - good grief.


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

CEO Keg King said:


> Enough said.



Please, pretty please with a cherry on top!


----------



## CKK

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> Please, pretty please with a cherry on top!





FarsideOfCrazy said:


> Please, pretty please with a cherry on top!


Enough said - no cherry you naughty boy.


----------



## pecanbery

If you do order from Kegland and get a defective fermzilla good luck getting it fixed, it took them 9 days just to give me shipping confirmation on the original order and now every email I send to them responding to one of their questions about the defective item takes 2 days to get an additional response.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

malt and barley blues said:


> I know he didn't invent plastic pressure fermenting, I am just showing you where the idea came from for the Fermentasaurus. Like most other things, even when he was at KK they were copied or blatant patent infringements. Don't know how long you have known him but I have known him a long time. I am not surprised to read that Perlick are pissed off for him copying their Flow Control valve.



So by this logic, the Fermentasaurus & by extension G3 products which continue to be sold by KegKing are rip offs? I assume that KegKing being so verdantly anti-plagiarism will discontinue their production immediately then!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

TheBeerBaron said:


> So by this logic, the Fermentasaurus & by extension G3 products which continue to be sold by KegKing are rip offs? I assume that KegKing being so verdantly anti-plagiarism will discontinue their production immediately then!


Your sounding more like your avatar, big difference in using someones idea and blatantly ripping off a patented product.


----------



## onemorecell

pecanbery said:


> If you do order from Kegland and get a defective fermzilla good luck getting it fixed, it took them 9 days just to give me shipping confirmation on the original order and now every email I send to them responding to one of their questions about the defective item takes 2 days to get an additional response.


I'd suggest calling them


----------



## TheBeerBaron

wide eyed and legless said:


> Your sounding more like your avatar, big difference in using someones idea and blatantly ripping off a patented product.



If you could explain how the orginal Fermentasaurus was a "blantant rip off" where as a G3 is "using someones idea"

Is there a difference?

Oh yeah, when KegKing is in question.... that's the difference


----------



## pecanbery

onemorecell said:


> I'd suggest calling them



They're sending me a replacement part today so a good outcome overall. I guess their customer service is a little overwhelmed. I still like the overall design of the fermzilla and the parts "appear" to be good quality, so maybe I just got unlucky with moulding issues on the butterfly valve.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

TheBeerBaron said:


> If you could explain how the orginal Fermentasaurus was a "blantant rip off" where as a G3 is "using someones idea"
> 
> Is there a difference?
> 
> Oh yeah, when KegKing is in question.... that's the difference


Homer, I will try and make it simple for you. No one said the Fermentasaurus was a blatant rip off, the FC on the Intertap was a blatant rip off of a patented Perlick FC tap.
What MBB was saying the idea for the Fermentasaurus came from the Fastferment fermenter.
Why is Keg King in question?
You seem to have got more bitter with Keg King since your fail with the FermZilla.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

wide eyed and legless said:


> Homer, I will try and make it simple for you. No one said the Fermentasaurus was a blatant rip off, the FC on the Intertap was a blatant rip off of a patented Perlick FC tap.
> What MBB was saying the idea for the Fermentasaurus came from the Fastferment fermenter.
> Why is Keg King in question?
> You seem to have got more bitter with Keg King since your fail with the FermZilla.


 
I am pretty sure MBB was insinuating both items were rip offs / idea copies / patent infringements or whatever, all those mean the same thing anyway. Saying IntertapFC was a blatant rip off of Perlick but Fermentasaurus was just a 'copied idea' is the sort of one-sided f*uckery I would expect from the KegKing circle jerk crew to come up with

And KegKing come into because CEO is always on here venting his spleen about the dishonesty and skulduggery which KegLand is apparently perpetrating against them daily

Personally, I couldn't give a sh*t if Kee said he got the idea for the Fermentasaurus while on an ayahuasca trip deep in the Amazon when really he directly copied the Fast Ferment idea, I could care less. Its you idiots that want to nit pick over this lame sh*t like jealous teenage girls


----------



## wide eyed and legless

TheBeerBaron said:


> I am pretty sure MBB was insinuating both items were rip offs / idea copies / patent infringements or whatever, all those mean the same thing anyway. Saying IntertapFC was a blatant rip off of Perlick but Fermentasaurus was just a 'copied idea' is the sort of one-sided f*uckery I would expect from the KegKing circle jerk crew to come up with
> 
> And KegKing come into because CEO is always on here venting his spleen about the dishonesty and skulduggery which KegLand is apparently perpetrating against them daily
> 
> Personally, I couldn't give a sh*t if Kee said he got the idea for the Fermentasaurus while on an ayahuasca trip deep in the Amazon when really he directly copied the Fast Ferment idea, I could care less. Its you idiots that want to nit pick over this lame sh*t like jealous teenage girls


Yep Homer, the fail on your FermZilla has really got to you. Time to chill out.


----------



## TheBeerBaron

wide eyed and legless said:


> Yep Homer, the fail on your FermZilla has really got to you. Time to chill out.



You pricks get to me.. 

I've gotten over the fact I ruined my FermZilla by getting myself a nice new All Rounder which is going great thanks for asking.


----------



## malt and barley blues

TheBeerBaron said:


> You pricks get to me..
> 
> I've gotten over the fact I ruined my FermZilla by getting myself a nice new All Rounder which is going great thanks for asking.


Hey BB did you get a visor and ear protection with it? Or better still don't ferment under pressure. Joking aside the Perlick FC is the blatant rip off I was refering to.


----------



## malt and barley blues

TheBeerBaron said:


> You pricks get to me..
> 
> I've gotten over the fact I ruined my FermZilla by getting myself a nice new All Rounder which is going great thanks for asking.


Hey BB did you get a visor and ear protection with it? Or better still don't ferment under pressure. Joking aside the Perlick FC is the blatant rip off I was refering to.


----------



## donald_trub

wide eyed and legless said:


> the FC on the Intertap was a blatant rip off of a patented Perlick FC tap



Why are Keg King selling that very product, then?


----------



## CKK

donald_trub said:


> Why are Keg King selling that very product, then?


Because KK did the right thing when it was pointed out by Perlick's legal representative that there was a patent infringement, acknowledged what was done in the past and settled appropriately with Perlick. That is how an honest and decent business operates. KK was given the right to sell out its remaining stock. Those KK resellers who can prove their product came from KK are in the clear but those who bought elsewhere will get mopped up eventually I expect. Would not be great to get such a subpoena I imagine. Perlick has nothing to lose by going after what is rightfully theirs as the legal costs end up with those who sold the patent infringing items.


----------



## donald_trub

Kegland have stopped selling the product entirely and come out with a much better tap than the Perlick, Inter or Ultratap. I currently have a Perlick FC, Intertap and a Nukatap on my tower and I'm blown away at how good the Nukatap performs. I'll be swapping out the other 2 for Nukataps in my next order.


----------



## Reg Holt

donald_trub said:


> Kegland have stopped selling the product entirely and come out with a much better tap than the Perlick, Inter or Ultratap. I currently have a Perlick FC, Intertap and a Nukatap on my tower and I'm blown away at how good the Nukatap performs. I'll be swapping out the other 2 for Nukataps in my next order.


I don't know how long you have been kegging but I got a free Nukatap, I'm glad it was free! Nothing to write home about. Got one Ventamatic beer tap, 3 Inters and the Nukatap can't see where your finding the difference. Apart from the shuttle may need swapping.


----------



## pecanbery

So KegLand sent me a replacement butterfly valve free of charge which still didn't solve the leak, they offered to send a collection vessel for free as well to try and resolve it. In the end I've decided just to purchase the all rounder bottle from kegland, 10/10 for customer service and warranty but the 27l fermzilla is just way too fiddly and I'm pretty sure I can collect the yeast from the all rounder anyway.

I would highly recommend going the all rounder, I'm just wondering if I can still dry hop by opening the lid 1-2 days prior to the fermentation is finished.


----------



## ozdevil

pecanbery said:


> So KegLand sent me a replacement butterfly valve free of charge which still didn't solve the leak, they offered to send a collection vessel for free as well to try and resolve it. In the end I've decided just to purchase the all rounder bottle from kegland, 10/10 for customer service and warranty but the 27l fermzilla is just way too fiddly and I'm pretty sure I can collect the yeast from the all rounder anyway.
> 
> I would highly recommend going the all rounder, I'm just wondering if I can still dry hop by opening the lid 1-2 days prior to the fermentation is finished.



you still could, but unfortunately you will not be able to do it oxygen free


----------



## pecanbery

ozdevil said:


> you still could, but unfortunately you will not be able to do it oxygen free



I've heard such wide ranging opinions regarding introducing oxygen at the late stage of fermentation. How bad is it if I opened the lid, dropped some hops in and let it finish fermenting for another day?


----------



## Nullnvoid

pecanbery said:


> I've heard such wide ranging opinions regarding introducing oxygen at the late stage of fermentation. How bad is it if I opened the lid, dropped some hops in and let it finish fermenting for another day?



Nothing at all, people do it every day, all over the world and still end up with beer.


----------



## awfulknauful

pecanbery said:


> I've heard such wide ranging opinions regarding introducing oxygen at the late stage of fermentation. How bad is it if I opened the lid, dropped some hops in and let it finish fermenting for another day?


Not bad at all, take the lid off there won't be a mass exodus of CO2 and an influx of oxygen, better still get another fermenter, put the dry hops in flush with CO2 from the ferment and transfer fro primary to secondary. If you have room of course.


----------



## donald_trub

awfulknauful said:


> Don't know if this was a leak or split.
> View attachment 118689



You're leaving out the bit where the author fully admitted to his two mistakes - he opened the valve to allow the pressure to build up in the container jar and then he completely removed the spunding valve. What do you expect is going to happen if he ferments with no spunding valve on?

Like I said, there's a tonne of people who have these things who probably should start off in buckets like the rest of us did for a good decade or more.


----------



## Fro-Daddy

donald_trub said:


> You're leaving out the bit where the author fully admitted to his two mistakes


Shock horror! Time for Awful to give it a rest I think...


----------



## donald_trub

It's so obvious there's an organised ring to feed the photos in. He's posted photos from a variety of different phones and even a Facebook image where the language is set to Swedish... I wonder who that could be from.

Meanwhile, my first Fermzilla AR arrived about 2 weeks ago and I've finished my first ferment. I couldn't be more happy with it. Had it around 10 - 15psi before a cold crash. Not too interested in pressure fermenting (and I question the whole reduced ester thing... seems to be a lot of pseudoscience floating around), but for oxygen transfers this thing works beautifully.

I have a small bar fridge with a wooden shelf I had built. I had to tilt it on an angle to get it to fit in the fridge, but it worked a treat. For the 2nd ferment I'll be using tee pieces which will allow me to fit the AR in upright. The only reason I held off on buying one of these for so long was because I didn't think I'd be able to fit it in the fridge.


----------



## frosty3

awfulknauful said:


> Not bad at all, take the lid off there won't be a mass exodus of CO2 and an influx of oxygen, better still get another fermenter, put the dry hops in flush with CO2 from the ferment and transfer fro primary to secondary. If you have room of course.



Ow Jason, I love how every KK supporter on a KL forum says this. I can’t wait till KK release a oxygen free dry hopping method and you starting singing the praises of oxygen free dry hopping!!!


----------



## JnR_Mc

awfulknauful said:


> Don't know if this was a leak or split.
> View attachment 118689




You take a lot of screenshots from Facebook but not real good at reading, are you???

The post even said what happened....... it was the o-ring area from the collection vessel that leaked.

If your going to continue to post shit to stir the pot, at least don't be a lazy Fu$%er and type the full information, or stop altogether


----------



## JnR_Mc

donald_trub said:


> It's so obvious there's an organised ring to feed the photos in. He's posted photos from a variety of different phones and even a Facebook image where the language is set to Swedish... I wonder who that could be from.
> 
> Meanwhile, my first Fermzilla AR arrived about 2 weeks ago and I've finished my first ferment. I couldn't be more happy with it. Had it around 10 - 15psi before a cold crash. Not too interested in pressure fermenting (and I question the whole reduced ester thing... seems to be a lot of pseudoscience floating around), but for oxygen transfers this thing works beautifully.
> 
> I have a small bar fridge with a wooden shelf I had built. I had to tilt it on an angle to get it to fit in the fridge, but it worked a treat. For the 2nd ferment I'll be using tee pieces which will allow me to fit the AR in upright. The only reason I held off on buying one of these for so long was because I didn't think I'd be able to fit it in the fridge.
> 
> View attachment 118692



Looks good mate, I have also just gone from my Fermzilla to a 30L All Rounder. Loving it.
However it looks so small inmy fermenting fridge compared to the Fermzilla


----------



## TheBeerBaron

JnR_Mc said:


> Looks good mate, I have also just gone from my Fermzilla to a 30L All Rounder. Loving it.
> However it looks so small inmy fermenting fridge compared to the Fermzilla



I have moved to an All Rounder also from FZ (due to my own negligence ruining the FZ) and it has been great. After a couple of brews I thought I would never need to go back to a FZ.. However, I did hit my first snag with it though with the last brew I did which was a NEIPA fresh wort kit

It is not a fault of the equipment at all, but I realised how useful being able to remove the trub and dry hop through the bottom using the FZ is. This NEIPA kit had a lot of trub add to that all the yeast and 175g dry hop and in the end, I had to leave about 2L of beer in the bottom because no matter how I tried to tilt it etc. the dip tube was in the trub.. Looks like for this type or brew I might need to run a shorter tube to maximise yield in the future. 

A small learning process and maybe a tip for others... I might re-invest in a FZ once the funds allow!


----------



## RRising

TheBeerBaron said:


> I had to leave about 2L of beer in the bottom because no matter how I tried to tilt it etc. the dip tube was in the trub..



I think i have found a good balance with the dip tube with my 30L AR, have the ball float sitting on the bottom and have just a little bit of slack in the line. When i transferred my last batch, the inlet did go to the side of the vessel (other than a rigid tube i don't think it can be helped) but once it got to about 5L it went into the middle and i think i only had about 1L of wort left over.

If you are ok with hop socks (some brewers are, some aren't) buy a large teflon coated magnetic stir rod with a strong neodymium magnet put the rod in with the hops and put it up the top above the wort, once you purge the oxygen out of the vessel, the hops should keep until you dry hop, this removes the need to open the vessel.


----------



## donald_trub

@TheBeerBaron I had a 85g dry hop for my first AR brew. I decided I wanted the ferment to be 100% oxygen free for the first time around, so I've gone with keg hopping in one of KL's stainless steel hop tubes. After almost a week in the keg it's incredibly cloudy with no signs of clearing up yet. I plan on transferring to another keg in the next day or so to get it off those hops.

Next time around I'll just open up and throw them in. I can't be bothered witth the magnet trick others run with.


----------



## donald_trub

CEO Keg King said:


> If they the stopped selling it then why leave our trade marks on their website With pictures etc? Only one thing to be gained and that is to try and lead searches there.



Pretty common for all kinds of online stores to include a great number of other companies' trademarks. It's how online stores work. It sounds like you're worried about how much better the Nukataps actually are compared to your product. My next 2 Nukataps arrived to replace out my old Perlick FC and Intertap, will be installing them over the weekend!


----------



## TheBeerBaron

donald_trub said:


> @TheBeerBaron I had a 85g dry hop for my first AR brew. I decided I wanted the ferment to be 100% oxygen free for the first time around, so I've gone with keg hopping in one of KL's stainless steel hop tubes. After almost a week in the keg it's incredibly cloudy with no signs of clearing up yet. I plan on transferring to another keg in the next day or so to get it off those hops.
> 
> Next time around I'll just open up and throw them in. I can't be bothered witth the magnet trick others run with.



Yeah, I don't like the idea of hop socks/tubes/bombs etc. I just funnel them in via one of the carb caps! 

Now I know about this issue, I will just run a shorter dip tube next time which should negate the issue!


----------



## frosty3

It’s 


JnR_Mc said:


> You take a lot of screenshots from Facebook but not real good at reading, are you???
> 
> The post even said what happened....... it was the o-ring area from the collection vessel that leaked.
> 
> If your going to continue to post shit to stir the pot, at least don't be a lazy Fu$%er and type the full information, or stop altogether



Its clear by his Facebook page that he just has an explosion fetish!!!


----------



## Sidney Harbour-Bridge

donald_trub said:


> What do you expect is going to happen if he ferments with no spunding valve on?



Would expect the pressure relief valve to look after things and release the excess pressure, there is a PRV right?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

awfulknauful said:


> View attachment 118707
> 
> The Swedes have found a novel way of fixing a FermZilla.
> View attachment 118708


Wasn't that just water? What happened there?


----------



## donald_trub

Sidney Harbour-Bridge said:


> Would expect the pressure relief valve to look after things and release the excess pressure, there is a PRV right?



No, because it's clearly stated that the collection container isn't meant to be used under pressure and isn't pressure rated.


----------



## donald_trub

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> For f u c K s sake mate would you just piss off. All you post is shit about exploding fermzilla's, nothing useful and nobody gives a shit what you say except your little circle jerk KK clan. So how about you keep your crap posts to somewhere else where they might care. Ignored from now.



The only thing these guys are achieving is tarnishing Keg King's brand. Keg King are spending more time in their competitor's thread shitting on their product rather than coming up with a product that's able to compete. As a consumer we're the ones who lose out.


----------



## CKK

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> For f u c K s sake mate would you just piss off. All you post is shit about exploding fermzilla's, nothing useful and nobody gives a shit what you say except your little circle jerk KK clan. So how about you keep your crap posts to somewhere else where they might care. Ignored from now.


Highly useful for people to Know to stand back when there is pressure in something that is not made to hold it. Looks like you built up some pressure already and the truth PRV ain’t working so get personal eh what.


----------



## Frizz

donald_trub said:


> Are you saying yours bursts open better than Kegland's? You're full of sh!t. We just got shown an example of someone who didn't use a spunding valve and it didn't burst open at all. The swedish pictures are someone shooting it WITH A GUN, but you're too stupid to notice that.


i would use a gun if i was unhappy with my fermenterand put it out of its misery too


----------



## donald_trub

Frizz said:


> i would use a gun if i was unhappy with my fermenterand put it out of its misery too



And you're well within your right to do that, no one is stopping you! But CEO Keg King is too stupid to realise that even after it was spelt out.


----------



## CKK

donald_trub said:


> You're not doing fine, you reek of desperation. You're spending your free time in your competitor's products threads and telling us how they've treated you so unfairly. You've ruined the forum with your shi!t and have no regard for the homebrewers on here, you're just thinking about yourself at this point - you don't actually care how bad it gets on here. You've been asked multiple times to stay out of this thread and you never respect the wishes of the people on the forum. There's a Fermentasaurus thread that you should stick to but you never do.


We are doing just fine and sales are through the roof. We get mentioned and so we will respond.


----------



## JnR_Mc




----------



## donald_trub

You weren't mentioned and neither was your fermenter - you have your own threads for that. You come here to take cheap shots and contribute nothing to the homebrewing community and you've been asked to leave and you won't. I don't think I've ever met a more annoying person. it's incredibly pathetic that this is how you choose to conduct yourself.


----------



## AHB_Admin

Everyone. I hope this thread can get back on to the Fermzilla topic without trolls or brand fussing. I'm trying to clear up those issues. Remember, you can report a post and I will see it. Maybe not immediately, but soon.


----------



## Reg Holt

donald_trub said:


> You're leaving out the bit where the author fully admitted to his two mistakes - he opened the valve to allow the pressure to build up in the container jar and then he completely removed the spunding valve. What do you expect is going to happen if he ferments with no spunding valve on?
> 
> Like I said, there's a tonne of people who have these things who probably should start off in buckets like the rest of us did for a good decade or more.
> 
> View attachment 118691


Surely the PRV should have activated!


----------



## Reg Holt

donald_trub said:


> No, because it's clearly stated that the collection container isn't meant to be used under pressure and isn't pressure rated.


Then this is confusing it also clearly states in the instructions to leave the valve open during pressure ferment! No wonder things get a bit hairy.
https://www.kegland.com.au/media/pdf/FermZilla Instructions for 27L and 55Lv2.pdf


----------



## Nullnvoid

I think it's just the lid of the collection container that is not to be used under pressure. I think the container itself is fine.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

donald_trub said:


> The only thing these guys are achieving is tarnishing Keg King's brand. Keg King are spending more time in their competitor's thread shitting on their product rather than coming up with a product that's able to compete. As a consumer we're the ones who lose out.


For a start it's not a Keg Land thread, and both parties are allowed to comment just as they were in the Fermentasaurus thread, didn't take Kee long to jump on and call out the snubby, didn't take him long to come up with something to try and copy it.





KK - 'Fermentasaurus' conical PET fermenter


Dan, thanks exactly what I after.




aussiehomebrewer.com




Still didn't get it right though, how much beer gets left in the all rounder as opposed to the snubby.






No matter which vessel is being used it is good to see the positive and negative points on all, not restrict a thread to only showing positive points.
There are prospective buyers for these vessels, doesn't give the purchaser a fair opinion if only the positives are allowed to be put forward.

If there is an issue with the collection container, which there could be seeing so many destroyed then that should be addressed.
Maybe kee should make a similar video on how to test the FermZilla range as the life span is only 2 years before it needs hydro testing.


----------



## donald_trub

wide eyed and legless said:


> For a start it's not a Keg Land thread, and both parties are allowed to comment



I disagree. We've tried that, it doesn't work. Keg King are spending all their time in here slinging sh!t on their competitors and contributing nothing to the conversation. The majority of people want BOTH companies to stay out of each other's product threads for the betterment of the community. Kee may have once posted in the FS thread but that was probably a year ago now so I think you should get over it and move on. I've called out Kegland in threads they shouldn't be in, but KK seem to be the repeat offenders here and have made this place a much more unpleasant place because of it. Kegland seem to get the message and we can actually hold a conversation about brewing with them and get helpful advice.

On top of all this we have people in here sharing photos of Fermzilla's being shot and you yourself WEAL have been known to share photos you've found off the net and passed them off as your own. I think it's in everyone's best interest if we keep each other's companies out of their respective threads.




wide eyed and legless said:


> Maybe kee should make a similar video on how to test the FermZilla range as the life span is only 2 years before it needs hydro testing



What does having it pressure tested every 2 years have to do with anything? You're supposed to get the vessel re-tested every 2 years in line with Australian compliance. You know this, the Fermentasaurus comes with the exact same instructions. How is this relevant to anything being discussed here?


On the topic of the All Rounder, I fail to see how it's a copied product? It's a Fermzilla with a flat bottom on it. It's the perfect shaped device - I get pressure fermenting, oxygen free transfers and a vessel that fits in a small under counter bar fridge. I couldn't be more happier with it.

I'm glad the snub nose works well for you, maybe you can go sing it's praises in the FS thread. To me it's just baffling why you'd have a conical with no collection facility as that's the entire point of having a concical.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

donald_trub said:


> I disagree. We've tried that, it doesn't work. Keg King are spending all their time in here slinging sh!t on their competitors and contributing nothing to the conversation. The majority of people want BOTH companies to stay out of each other's product threads for the betterment of the community. Kee may have once posted in the FS thread but that was probably a year ago now so I think you should get over it and move on. I've called out Kegland in threads they shouldn't be in, but KK seem to be the repeat offenders here and have made this place a much more unpleasant place because of it. Kegland seem to get the message and we can actually hold a conversation about brewing with them and get helpful advice.
> 
> On top of all this we have people in here sharing photos of Fermzilla's being shot and you yourself WEAL have been known to share photos you've found off the net and passed them off as your own. I think it's in everyone's best interest if we keep each other's companies out of their respective threads.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What does having it pressure tested every 2 years have to do with anything? You're supposed to get the vessel re-tested every 2 years in line with Australian compliance. You know this, the Fermentasaurus comes with the exact same instructions. How is this relevant to anything being discussed here?
> 
> 
> On the topic of the All Rounder, I fail to see how it's a copied product? It's a Fermzilla with a flat bottom on it. It's the perfect shaped device - I get pressure fermenting, oxygen free transfers and a vessel that fits in a small under counter bar fridge. I couldn't be more happier with it.
> 
> I'm glad the snub nose works well for you, maybe you can go sing it's praises in the FS thread. To me it's just baffling why you'd have a conical with no collection facility as that's the entire point of having a concical.


The reason it would be good to see a similar video as the Fermentasaurus is because you yourself are confused and giving advice which is contradictory to advice given by Keg Land.
Nothing baffling about the cone in the snub nose just means I can retrieve more wort as shown in the photo.
I can't see anything wrong with sponsors commenting in threads as long as it is not a sponsors thread.
Also you don't get an oxygen free transfer which ever vessel you use.


----------



## mynameisrodney

I get bugger all left behind in my all rounder. 

The cone shape in the snub nose is just to save money on tooling. Let's not make up stories about it being there for any other reason.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

mynameisrodney said:


> I get bugger all left behind in my all rounder.
> 
> The cone shape in the snub nose is just to save money on tooling. Let's not make up stories about it being there for any other reason.


So you don't have any trub in your fermenter just beer?


----------



## mynameisrodney

What? Of course not. Get a few litres of trub


----------



## wide eyed and legless

mynameisrodney said:


> What? Of course not. Get a few litres of trub


Say no more.


----------



## mynameisrodney

Haha. What are you on about dude?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

mynameisrodney said:


> Haha. What are you on about dude?


What? Of course not. Get a few litres of trub


----------



## mynameisrodney

I feel like you think you are being witty, but you're not. 

Of course my fermenter is not completely full of beer. I get a few litres of trub, sure I can improve on this, but hardly the fault of the fermenter. 

It is still simple to get pretty much all the beer out of an all rounder just by rotating it on the stand. Apparently this is too much for some to fathom.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

mynameisrodney said:


> I feel like you think you are being witty, but you're not.
> 
> Of course my fermenter is not completely full of beer. I get a few litres of trub, sure I can improve on this, but hardly the fault of the fermenter.
> 
> It is still simple to get pretty much all the beer out of an all rounder just by rotating it on the stand. Apparently this is too much for some to fathom.


I will write this slowly. What I am saying is with the cone all that is left in the fermenter is compacted yeast. Post a pic of your trub in the all rounder.
See post 974. Not rotating or faffing about, just transfer. Simple.


----------



## Reg Holt

wide eyed and legless said:


> I will write this slowly. What I am saying is with the cone all that is left in the fermenter is compacted yeast. Post a pic of your trub in the all rounder.
> See post 974. Not rotating or faffing about, just transfer. Simple.


I sorta think you are wasting time on this thread weal no construtive critism allowed.


----------



## mynameisrodney

I leave a lot in the fermenter because I crush fine, leave very little in the kettle, and dry hop loose. Choice of fermenter is irrelevant. In a snub nose I would have the exact same amount. Suggesting otherwise is complete garbage. 

Yes, in a snub nose you don't have to rotate to get the same amount out. But this comes at the cost of increased height due to the shape of the cone. It's up to the individual as to which they prefer. It takes seconds to do, so for me it's a complete non-issue.


----------



## mynameisrodney

Reg Holt said:


> I sorta think you are wasting time on this thread weal no construtive critism allowed.


Actually I am all for constructive criticism, but he is just talking BS that somehow the all rounder creates litres of trub whereas the snub nose magics it away.


----------



## Reg Holt

mynameisrodney said:


> Actually I am all for constructive criticism, but he is just talking BS that somehow the all rounder creates litres of trub whereas the snub nose magics it away.


The way I read it, it was you who said you had litres of trub after transfer.


----------



## mynameisrodney

I leave the trub in the all rounder and transfer virtually all my beer into my serving keg


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Reg Holt said:


> I sorta think you are wasting time on this thread weal no construtive critism allowed.


You are right Reg.


----------



## Sidney Harbour-Bridge

The great thing about the snub nose for me is that I had a fermazilla and it leaked and was really taller than I liked so I bought the snub tank and don't suffer with the wobbley stand and leaky collection bottle, I only use it to filter lagers during pressure transfer and it works just as good as the fermazilla did without the height and leaks.


----------



## mynameisrodney

wide eyed and legless said:


> You are right Reg.


Like I said, I am all for constructive criticism, just not BS. 

Attached is a photo of what is left behind in my all rounder after transferring to a keg. There's maybe 100ml of beer in there. The all rounder does have its flaws. Inability to get all the beer out isn't one of them.


----------



## Reg Holt

Have to admit I am biased towards the snub nose bought mine early on in their release. But I would be interested in hearing the pros and cons of the all rounder apart from it being slightly lower.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

mynameisrodney said:


> Like I said, I am all for constructive criticism, just not BS.
> 
> Attached is a photo of what is left behind in my all rounder after transferring to a keg. There's maybe 100ml of beer in there. The all rounder does have its flaws. Inability to get all the beer out isn't one of them.


Wow! That's a shit load. The flaw is not having the cone,compact the yeast into a nice little cone no more than an adults hand full and the rest is beer.


----------



## mynameisrodney

For me

Pros

Extremely easy to clean
Nice big lid with plenty of space for adding dip tubes, cooling coils etc
No issues at high pressure
Easy to get all the beer out of

Cons

Lid can be difficult to remove. Suggested method is to pry on the bottom of one of the carb caps, which I don't like, especially with the plastic carb caps. 
Carrying handle is poorly designed, and if over tightened will squeeze the neck. I honestly think this is the cause of a lot of the cracked ones.


----------



## mynameisrodney

wide eyed and legless said:


> Wow! That's a shit load. The flaw is not having the cone,compact the yeast into a nice little cone no more than an adults hand full and the rest is beer.


As mentioned before, that's my process, not the fermenter. Stop talking rubbish.


----------



## Sidney Harbour-Bridge

mynameisrodney said:


> For me
> 
> Pros
> 
> Extremely easy to clean
> Nice big lid with plenty of space for adding dip tubes, cooling coils etc
> No issues at high pressure
> Easy to get all the beer out of
> 
> Cons
> 
> Lid can be difficult to remove. Suggested method is to pry on the bottom of one of the carb caps, which I don't like, especially with the plastic carb caps.
> Carrying handle is poorly designed, and if over tightened will squeeze the neck. I honestly think this is the cause of a lot of the cracked ones.


You forgot to include,

Cons

spontaneous detonation


----------



## mynameisrodney

Sidney Harbour-Bridge said:


> You forgot to include,
> 
> Cons
> 
> spontaneous detonation


No sign of it and I've had it over 30psi


----------



## Reg Holt

Good to see some constructive conversation on this thread, this is what it should be all about, well played Rodney, though you are left with quite a lot of trub and beer in the fermenter you are willing to share the downside.


----------



## Reg Holt

mynameisrodney said:


> No sign of it and I've had it over 30psi


Why on earth would you go to 30 PSI? Have you been brewing long?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Reg Holt said:


> Why on earth would you go to 30 PSI? Have you been brewing long?


I think he's a new starter. Go easy on him.


----------



## mynameisrodney

I don't know why this needs to descend to crap like that, but yes I have. I have not been pressure fermenting long though. 

I went to 30psi on my first pressure ferment, because I underestimated how quickly the pressure would build up, and made the dumb decision to wait until the next morning to dial in my spunding valve.


----------



## mynameisrodney

Reg Holt said:


> Good to see some constructive conversation on this thread, this is what it should be all about, well played Rodney, though you are left with quite a lot of trub and beer in the fermenter you are willing to share the downside.


I was not left with a lot of beer. I was left with a lot of trub because I leave essentially none in the kettle.


----------



## mje1980

Here we go again


----------



## frosty3

Basically sums it up.


----------



## Lorenzo99

For **** sake just keep it on topic, keg king guys arguing with home brewers again after reading the last 2 pages the stale taste left in my mouth from the keg king employees has made sure I will not purchase anything from them again, It's deadset less than childish! I returned to this forum after a few years away due to this bullshit hoping it would have improved not gotten worse.


----------



## malt and barley blues

Lorenzo99 said:


> For **** sake just keep it on topic, keg king guys arguing with home brewers again after reading the last 2 pages the stale taste left in my mouth from the keg king employees has made sure I will not purchase anything from them again, It's deadset less than childish! I returned to this *forum *after a few years away due to this bullshit hoping it would have improved not gotten worse.


That's the magic word FORUM a place for discussion and exchange of ideas, but it seems that if the ideas do not represent a favourable view of Keg Land products then anyone making them are a Keg King employee. As posted earlier no constructive criticism or debate allowed  
Certainly seems apt for this thread.


Reg Holt said:


> I sorta think you are wasting time on this thread weal no constructive criticism allowed.


----------



## mynameisrodney

malt and barley blues said:


> That's the magic word FORUM a place for discussion and exchange of ideas, but it seems that if the ideas do not represent a favourable view of Keg Land products then anyone making them are a Keg King employee. As posted earlier no constructive criticism or debate allowed
> Certainly seems apt for this thread.



As I have repeated many times now, I am all for constructive criticism, and in the last 10 or so pages I am actually the only one who has provided any. What I am completely against is lies and propaganda, which this thread is full of. After calling people out on this they have moved on to insults which is real mature.


----------



## malt and barley blues

mynameisrodney said:


> As I have repeated many times now, I am all for constructive criticism, and in the last 10 or so pages I am actually the only one who has provided any. What I am completely against is lies and propaganda, which this thread is full of. After calling people out on this they have moved on to insults which is real mature.


I am with you there I hate vile lies, propaganda and insults, where were they?


----------



## mynameisrodney

All through the last few pages claiming you have to leave a tonne of beer behind in an all rounder. Snarky replies about me being a beginner. Easy to find.


----------



## malt and barley blues

mynameisrodney said:


> All through the last few pages claiming you have to leave a tonne of beer behind in an all rounder. Snarky replies about me being a beginner. Easy to find.


I don't think being called a beginner is an insult, you did say you have only just started pressure fermenting. does look like a fair bit of trub in there, did you cold crash to compact the yeast and any dry hops, makes a big difference.


----------



## mynameisrodney

While I do agree that there is nothing wrong with being a beginner, the comments were certainly meant to be insulting. 

I do cold crash. For those used to looking at a snub nose, the pic may have been deceiving. There is ~1.5L of trub in there, the round bottom means it's spread out and looks like more than there is. I dry hop loose, BIAB with a fine crush, and leave very little in the kettle, so I have more trub in the fermenter. This has never been an issue for me in any way. 

In any case, the amount of trub in my fermenter is completely off topic as to whether or not the fermenter is doing its job.


----------



## toddyboy

I'm making the move up from bucket brewing to brewing with a FZ I bought last year. I have a few questions which, form reading other sources, have contradicting info.

Basically, I have a FZ and want to transfer it to bottles when done. From my reading, fermenting under pressure looks like a good way to avoid waiting a few weeks for the beer to carbonate. I'm all for that. I have a CO2 bottle, a spunding valve and will use a hose with a ball valve to transfer to the bottles. I have my FZ set up in a temperature controlled fermenting fridge.

My questions are:

When do I put the liquid under pressure? As soon as I sprinkle the yeast on top? I've seen videos on how to use the spunding valve. The beer I'll be brewing will use around 9psi. I was thinking of leaving the spunding valve open from the start to let the yeast start the process and then close the spunding valve to my desired pressure once the fermentation has stopped.
Cold crashing. Do I just drop the temperature of my fermentation fridge to 2 degrees for a day or so once the fermenting is done and let the carbonation do its thing then transfer?
Dry hopping seems interesting with the FZ. I'm assuming I close the valve, remove collection jar trub, replace with collection jar with hops in it, purge with CO2 and slowly open the valve again?
Long term, I'll get a corny keg to serve my beer from then graduate to all grain brewing once I have more room and pots, etc. to do the job.


----------



## kadmium

toddyboy said:


> I'm making the move up from bucket brewing to brewing with a FZ I bought last year. I have a few questions which, form reading other sources, have contradicting info.
> 
> Basically, I have a FZ and want to transfer it to bottles when done. From my reading, fermenting under pressure looks like a good way to avoid waiting a few weeks for the beer to carbonate. I'm all for that. I have a CO2 bottle, a spunding valve and will use a hose with a ball valve to transfer to the bottles. I have my FZ set up in a temperature controlled fermenting fridge.
> 
> My questions are:
> 
> When do I put the liquid under pressure? As soon as I sprinkle the yeast on top? I've seen videos on how to use the spunding valve. The beer I'll be brewing will use around 9psi. I was thinking of leaving the spunding valve open from the start to let the yeast start the process and then close the spunding valve to my desired pressure once the fermentation has stopped.
> Cold crashing. Do I just drop the temperature of my fermentation fridge to 2 degrees for a day or so once the fermenting is done and let the carbonation do its thing then transfer?
> Dry hopping seems interesting with the FZ. I'm assuming I close the valve, remove collection jar trub, replace with collection jar with hops in it, purge with CO2 and slowly open the valve again?
> Long term, I'll get a corny keg to serve my beer from then graduate to all grain brewing once I have more room and pots, etc. to do the job.


Hey mate, congrats on coming to the darkside of pressure fermentation. Don't let anyone try and tell you it's 'no good for the yeast' (imagine that in a snarky voice).

I don't think 9PSI is going to be enough if you intend on not carbing in the bottle naturally. Bear in mind, 9PSI at 18 odd degrees is not the same as 9PSI at 2 degrees. So you will most probably have to ferment near the edge of pressure. Otherwise, ferment under normal pressure, cold crash, then put the gas on for a week to carb in the fermenter at 10ish PSI and THEN bottle.

Also consider counter pressure bottle fillers (even a home jobbie with a bung and some tube) to ensure you keep carbonation!

Ok, so in relation to:

1. I apply pressure as soon as I put the yeast in. This way I can set my spunding valve to the right pressure straight away, otherwise I forget. You could argue that this reduces the oxygen saturation in the fermenter however you should have properly oxygenated the wort itself, so yeah.

If you're not going to pre pressurise, I suggest leaving your spunder set so each time it's pre set. It can be a bit fiddley to get right.

2. Cold crashing should be 24 hours ONCE it hits 2 degrees (in my opinion) so I would allow 2 days for it. Just my opinion.

3. Can't comment on using the bottle as I dryhop using a snub nose, however give the hopsock with magnet a go. I think it's easier, neater and completely oxygen free!


----------



## Grmblz

mynameisrodney said:


> I was not left with a lot of beer. I was left with a lot of trub because I leave essentially none in the kettle.


Rodney this is nonsense.
You want constructive criticism?
First off, as much trub as is possible is NOT! allowed in the fermenter, PERIOD! That means whirlpool the kettle. Just bloody Google it.
Second, a larger surface area for a given volume results in a thinner layer (we're talking sucking beer off the yeast sediment without disturbing the yeast) a thicker layer is obviously better, so the narrower the vessel the thicker the layer of liquid and ultimately the less that is left behind. This is why I made my previous comments to you, may I suggest you re-read your responses to me, there was no "lies or propaganda" just basic common sense and alternative suggestions.
Finally this thread is for "Fermzilla" yeh I know we get a bit side tracked, but maybe start an "all rounder"/"under pressure" thread or whatever, end of day despite the odd wanker most people here are only too happy to help, but there's none so blind that don't want to see.
Cheers G


----------



## frosty3

toddyboy said:


> I'm making the move up from bucket brewing to brewing with a FZ I bought last year. I have a few questions which, form reading other sources, have contradicting info.
> 
> Basically, I have a FZ and want to transfer it to bottles when done. From my reading, fermenting under pressure looks like a good way to avoid waiting a few weeks for the beer to carbonate. I'm all for that. I have a CO2 bottle, a spunding valve and will use a hose with a ball valve to transfer to the bottles. I have my FZ set up in a temperature controlled fermenting fridge.
> 
> My questions are:
> 
> When do I put the liquid under pressure? As soon as I sprinkle the yeast on top? I've seen videos on how to use the spunding valve. The beer I'll be brewing will use around 9psi. I was thinking of leaving the spunding valve open from the start to let the yeast start the process and then close the spunding valve to my desired pressure once the fermentation has stopped.
> Cold crashing. Do I just drop the temperature of my fermentation fridge to 2 degrees for a day or so once the fermenting is done and let the carbonation do its thing then transfer?
> Dry hopping seems interesting with the FZ. I'm assuming I close the valve, remove collection jar trub, replace with collection jar with hops in it, purge with CO2 and slowly open the valve again?
> Long term, I'll get a corny keg to serve my beer from then graduate to all grain brewing once I have more room and pots, etc. to do the job.



What I do to dry hop is. Let the pressure out. Close the valve. Remove the collection bottle. Clean bottle and the bottom of the valve. Add hops. Re-attach. Flush with c02. Pressurises the collection bottle to about 15psi. Then open the valve as fast as you can.

In terms of filling bottles from the fermenter your best bet is using a bottling gun that you can flush the bottle with c02 first to minimise oxidation. If that’s out of the budget at the moment try a bottling wand or something so you can fill from the bottom of the bottle. Then you want have a little bit of foam on the top that overflows a little. Put the cap on straight away so that all the oxygen is pushed out. Same method applies if you are using a bottling gun.


----------



## Grok

After many frustrating attempts (since new) to tighten to seal effectively and undo the collection bottle because it won't move, and with the plastic bowing and almost breaking due to the force I have apply to get it to move with the strap spanner supplied, I have been able to at least make it more civilised with the careful smoothing of the sealing surface opposite the O ring with fine emery paper, and then application of microfine Graphite powder on the O ring and adjacent sealing surface plus the threads as well. Also chamfer the squared entry edge so the O ring can get a easy start into the compressed sealing area of the body. Then take a hard smooth round object to "Burnish" (rub) the graphite into the surfaces to impregnate better.

Under magnification the surfaces are pitted and I believe this grips the O ring to much generating to much friction to easily break free to turn, and provides a somewhat poor seal as well, bad quality control, no excuse for this in my opinion!

I have done a few brews since and it has been much better at taking the bowl on and off.


----------



## kadmium

That's a lot of work for something that should just work out of the box. I think overall it's a very complicated system (both versions) which is going to be prone to issues like leaks etc.

Glad you got it sorted though


----------



## toddyboy

Apologies for my delayed response. Had a birthday and father's day to get some more equipment 



kadmium said:


> Hey mate, congrats on coming to the darkside of pressure fermentation. Don't let anyone try and tell you it's 'no good for the yeast' (imagine that in a snarky voice).
> 
> I don't think 9PSI is going to be enough if you intend on not carbing in the bottle naturally. Bear in mind, 9PSI at 18 odd degrees is not the same as 9PSI at 2 degrees. So you will most probably have to ferment near the edge of pressure. Otherwise, ferment under normal pressure, cold crash, then put the gas on for a week to carb in the fermenter at 10ish PSI and THEN bottle.
> 
> Also consider counter pressure bottle fillers (even a home jobbie with a bung and some tube) to ensure you keep carbonation!
> 
> Ok, so in relation to:
> 
> 1. I apply pressure as soon as I put the yeast in. This way I can set my spunding valve to the right pressure straight away, otherwise I forget. You could argue that this reduces the oxygen saturation in the fermenter however you should have properly oxygenated the wort itself, so yeah.
> 
> If you're not going to pre pressurise, I suggest leaving your spunder set so each time it's pre set. It can be a bit fiddley to get right.
> 
> 2. Cold crashing should be 24 hours ONCE it hits 2 degrees (in my opinion) so I would allow 2 days for it. Just my opinion.
> 
> 3. Can't comment on using the bottle as I dryhop using a snub nose, however give the hopsock with magnet a go. I think it's easier, neater and completely oxygen free!



Appreciate your reply. My latest effort since my post didn't go too well. I misread your post and put the CO2 in straight away which seemed to screw up the yeast. It got blown around the FV and then sunk into the wort and didn't seem to ferment too much if at all. Add to that my spunding valve didn't want to hold any pressure so I had to get another one. I also messed up the valve going into the collection jar and had that closed when I put the wort and yeast in then opened it when I realised the error of my way. That also caused a big commotion in the fermenter which further messed up my brew.



frosty3 said:


> What I do to dry hop is. Let the pressure out. Close the valve. Remove the collection bottle. Clean bottle and the bottom of the valve. Add hops. Re-attach. Flush with c02. Pressurises the collection bottle to about 15psi. Then open the valve as fast as you can.
> 
> In terms of filling bottles from the fermenter your best bet is using a bottling gun that you can flush the bottle with c02 first to minimise oxidation. If that’s out of the budget at the moment try a bottling wand or something so you can fill from the bottom of the bottle. Then you want have a little bit of foam on the top that overflows a little. Put the cap on straight away so that all the oxygen is pushed out. Same method applies if you are using a bottling gun.



Because my brew seemed to screw up, I didn't want to waste the hops so I just skipped that step. I got myself a bottling gun which I'll test out today to make sure I use it right on my next brew.

I also got myself a carb stone. Seems as though I forgot about that piece of equipment. For my next brew, probably next weekend, I'll be doing the following:

Brew as normal
Attach carb stone and hose to inner gas post of FZ
Attach spunding valve to outside of gas post of FZ, probably set to about 12psi
Let yeast do its thing in my fermenting fridge at the right temp
Dry hop using frosty3's method above
When FG is reached, turn temp controller off and just use fridge temp to bring brew temp down to roughly 2 degrees
After 24-48 hours, remove spunding valve and replace with CO2 line to carb the brew
About 24 hours later, use bottling gun to bottle beer and drink almost right away
Have I missed anything there or done something wrong? Any tips are greatly appreciated.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

toddyboy said:


> Because my brew seemed to screw up, I didn't want to waste the hops so I just skipped that step. I got myself a bottling gun which I'll test out today to make sure I use it right on my next brew.
> 
> I also got myself a carb stone. Seems as though I forgot about that piece of equipment. For my next brew, probably next weekend, I'll be doing the following:
> 
> Brew as normal
> Attach carb stone and hose to inner gas post of FZ
> Attach spunding valve to outside of gas post of FZ, probably set to about 12psi
> Let yeast do its thing in my fermenting fridge at the right temp
> Dry hop using frosty3's method above
> When FG is reached, turn temp controller off and just use fridge temp to bring brew temp down to roughly 2 degrees
> After 24-48 hours, remove spunding valve and replace with CO2 line to carb the brew
> About 24 hours later, use bottling gun to bottle beer and drink almost right away
> Have I missed anything there or done something wrong? Any tips are greatly appreciated.


If I am reading your post right, things seem to go pear shaped after, Brew as normal.
Attach the carb stone and the spunding valve on the gas post? The spunding valve is to control the pressure above the wort. 
Tossing the dry hops in through the top is far easier than mucking around with collection bottles.
Fit your spunding valve set at required pressure
When FG is reached I would go into the diacetyl rest phase for a couple of days, at the same temperature.
Drop temperature to dissolve the CO2 into the beer then attach the carbing stone.


----------



## Paddy

Todd depending on the amount of dry hops I either use a mesh hop ball held in place with magnets for a 25-50gm if using more I clean and dry the collection jar add the hop load and close the valve purging with CO2. Once I get to hop time on the tilt flick open valve and watch the chaos un-fold. The trub settles down in the jar and the hops dance in the brew. I run at around 15-18 psi so when it cold crashes it drops to around 10-12.


----------



## toddyboy

wide eyed and legless said:


> If I am reading your post right, things seem to go pear shaped after, Brew as normal.
> Attach the carb stone and the spunding valve on the gas post? The spunding valve is to control the pressure above the wort.
> Tossing the dry hops in through the top is far easier than mucking around with collection bottles.
> Fit your spunding valve set at required pressure
> When FG is reached I would go into the diacetyl rest phase for a couple of days, at the same temperature.
> Drop temperature to dissolve the CO2 into the beer then attach the carbing stone.



For this latest brew, you're right. Everything started to go downhill after I sprinkled the yeast and closed the lid. First mistake was leaving the valve on the collection jar closed while I was pouring the wort into the FV. Second mistake was adding CO2 to the brew once I closed the lid. The yeast seemed to sink instead of sit on the top and start to do its thing. Opening the valve added to the agitation of the brew.

My thinking behind the carb stone and the spunding valve doesn't make sense now I read your response. My goal isn't necessarily to ferment under pressure but to be able to carbonate in the FV at some point before bottling so I can drink within a few days rather than waiting a few weeks to condition and carbonate. I also want to reduce any chance of oxidization, hence my thought of spunding valve and carb stone.

Coming from brewing in a bucket, this is a new set up with much more equipment and possibilities, as I'm sure you're aware. I'm trying to work out the best method for me to go from fermenting to drinking in the shortest time while still producing drinkable and flavourful beer. I'm probably at the point where I've read so much in the last couple of months that, not necessarily contradict each other, but have different methods and reasons behind them. I'm trying to work out which process works for me, my experience and the equipment I have. Long term, I would like to get into all grain and kegging. For now, it's partial grain and extract brewing in my FZ, inside my fermenting fridge and bottling into my 1 litre swing top bottles I brought back from Canada with me.



Paddy said:


> Todd depending on the amount of dry hops I either use a mesh hop ball held in place with magnets for a 25-50gm if using more I clean and dry the collection jar add the hop load and close the valve purging with CO2. Once I get to hop time on the tilt flick open valve and watch the chaos un-fold. The trub settles down in the jar and the hops dance in the brew. I run at around 15-18 psi so when it cold crashes it drops to around 10-12.



I like your thinking of the hop ball and magnet. For most brews I've been doing, it's only been a single dry hop amount of usually 25gm so a ball and magnet would be waaaaay easier than messing around with collection jars. For a more hoppy beer with multiple types of hops to add, the collection jar method, while more work, will produce the better results.


----------



## kadmium

Hey mate. Just to add, if you have something dangling into the liquid and a spunding valve ontop, it will draw liquid out the spunding valve and ruin it (if I am interpreting that right)

Don't worry about the yeast dropping into the liquid. Plenty of people add the dry yeast to the fermenter and add wort ontop. It's not harmed if it gets stirred in. 

I would:

Add wort to fermenter. Add yeast. Make sure its well aerated. Either set pressure with gas or leave. Depends on what you prefer. Adding gas early can suppress ester production of yeast. 

Ferment at 10PSI. Once you're a few days from crashing, set spunding valve to 15, raise for a rest around 20c. 

Cold crash, gelatine fine, what ever you need to do. Attach gas, and let it cold condition in the fridge on 10PSI for a week (don't want green beer, let's it clear up a bit etc)

Attach bottling gun, bottle away. 

????

Profit.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

toddyboy said:


> For this latest brew, you're right. Everything started to go downhill after I sprinkled the yeast and closed the lid. First mistake was leaving the valve on the collection jar closed while I was pouring the wort into the FV. Second mistake was adding CO2 to the brew once I closed the lid. The yeast seemed to sink instead of sit on the top and start to do its thing. Opening the valve added to the agitation of the brew.
> 
> My thinking behind the carb stone and the spunding valve doesn't make sense now I read your response. My goal isn't necessarily to ferment under pressure but to be able to carbonate in the FV at some point before bottling so I can drink within a few days rather than waiting a few weeks to condition and carbonate. I also want to reduce any chance of oxidization, hence my thought of spunding valve and carb stone.
> 
> Coming from brewing in a bucket, this is a new set up with much more equipment and possibilities, as I'm sure you're aware. I'm trying to work out the best method for me to go from fermenting to drinking in the shortest time while still producing drinkable and flavourful beer. I'm probably at the point where I've read so much in the last couple of months that, not necessarily contradict each other, but have different methods and reasons behind them. I'm trying to work out which process works for me, my experience and the equipment I have. Long term, I would like to get into all grain and kegging. For now, it's partial grain and extract brewing in my FZ, inside my fermenting fridge and bottling into my 1 litre swing top bottles I brought back from Canada with me.


Instead of concerning your self about achieving a shorter grain to glass time when bottling, why not brew more, letting you drink the beers a couple of months after bottling. Just keep turning them over. Or serve and drink direct from your fermenter.
A good article here from Scott Janish about the dry hopping and effects of top pressure on fermentation.








Fermenting & Dry Hopping Under Pressure - Scott Janish







scottjanish.com




.


----------



## kadmium

So he used two different strains of yeast
Pressure: RVA Manchester Ale
No Pressure: London Ale III

And then different hop quantities:
Pressure: 10g of Citra and Galaxy in the keg
No Pressure: 40g of Citra and Galaxy (4 times the amount)

And recipes:
Pressure: No pre fermentation addition
No Pressure: 15g of Galaxy added pre-fermentation

Then he decided the one with the NEIPA specific yeast, with 75g of extra hops had a better flavour and aroma? Geee.... you think?

I mean, don't get me wrong, it's known that pressure fermenting does inhibit esters / phenols, but doing an 'experiment' and then brewing essentially two different beers, with the one you're trying to show is better getting a clear advantage and then being 'surprised' that it's better is just down right dumb.

I know you have a crush on Scott Janish as you post this article against pressure fermenting every chance you get, but perhaps find something that's a little more scientific. 

I personally pressure ferment and I do not notice a difference between gravity fermented and pressure fermented. So, OP, don't listen to the naysayers who for whatever reason decided that pressure fermentation bad, only bottle condition. 

Might as well stop no chill cubing and BIAB too, cause pretty sure when that all started it was claimed to be a hoax, a source of botulism in no chill and other rubbish.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

kadmium said:


> So he used two different strains of yeast
> Pressure: RVA Manchester Ale
> No Pressure: London Ale III
> 
> And then different hop quantities:
> Pressure: 10g of Citra and Galaxy in the keg
> No Pressure: 40g of Citra and Galaxy (4 times the amount)
> 
> And recipes:
> Pressure: No pre fermentation addition
> No Pressure: 15g of Galaxy added pre-fermentation
> 
> Then he decided the one with the NEIPA specific yeast, with 75g of extra hops had a better flavour and aroma? Geee.... you think?
> 
> I mean, don't get me wrong, it's known that pressure fermenting does inhibit esters / phenols, but doing an 'experiment' and then brewing essentially two different beers, with the one you're trying to show is better getting a clear advantage and then being 'surprised' that it's better is just down right dumb.
> 
> I know you have a crush on Scott Janish as you post this article against pressure fermenting every chance you get, but perhaps find something that's a little more scientific.
> 
> I personally pressure ferment and I do not notice a difference between gravity fermented and pressure fermented. So, OP, don't listen to the naysayers who for whatever reason decided that pressure fermentation bad, only bottle condition.
> 
> Might as well stop no chill cubing and BIAB too, cause pretty sure when that all started it was claimed to be a hoax, a source of botulism in no chill and other rubbish.


I could put information up from Wiley online library, but most folk will understand a layman's approach. Why do you think that there are no brewers writing about pressure fermentation, or writers of brewing books, because closed vessel pressure fermentation should be carried out as Terri Fahrendorf first wrote years ago?
What you want to do is up to you, giving poor advice isn't on I would encourage new brewers to read, forget asking other brewers opinions. There are no stupid questions but there are stupid answers. Dry yeast, "make sure you oxygenate, aerate your wort, 10 years ago maybe now dry yeast goes straight into anaerobic fermentation! Adding oxygen is asking for trouble.
Advice to new brewers, develop an analytical mind read and learn, there is plenty of information out there.


----------



## djebel

wide eyed and legless said:


> Advice to new brewers, develop an analytical mind read and learn, there is plenty of information out there.


Sound advice, but the problem is there is HEAPS of information out there. Some of it is good, some outdated, and some just plain wrong. How does one tell (especiailly when new to a hobby) what is good information, and what is not?


----------



## kadmium

Exactly, and steering people away from pressure fermentation at the homebrew scale using articles stacked against the outcome doesn't do any favours. 

If you think pressure fermentation is bad, that's up to you.

Yes, you need to be aware about what pressure does to yeast. And at what PSI you will operate and it's impact. Yes, 8t inhibits esters. 

But to cart blanch tell the guy to just brew more and don't do what he's planning rather than giving him constructive feedback is just pushing what YOU think or find. 

I was answering his question. This is like people telling brewers not to dry hop because they don't like NEIPAs. 

If he wants to batch carb, ferment under pressure, do what he wants then people should offer constructive information. 

Linking Scott Janish at every opportunity telling people not to pressure ferment gets old.


----------



## kadmium

Oh


wide eyed and legless said:


> I could put information up from Wiley online library, but most folk will understand a layman's approach. Why do you think that there are no brewers writing about pressure fermentation, or writers of brewing books, because closed vessel pressure fermentation should be carried out as Terri Fahrendorf first wrote years ago?
> What you want to do is up to you, giving poor advice isn't on I would encourage new brewers to read, forget asking other brewers opinions. There are no stupid questions but there are stupid answers. Dry yeast, "make sure you oxygenate, aerate your wort, 10 years ago maybe now dry yeast goes straight into anaerobic fermentation! Adding oxygen is asking for trouble.
> Advice to new brewers, develop an analytical mind read and learn, there is plenty of information out there.



Oh, and such sources like Chris White who doesn't recommend harvesting yeast. It's bad. Oh wait, he owns a yeast company. 

There are plenty of pressure fermenting home brewers. Dr Hans on YouTube, Gash from Home Brew Network, David Heath, Larry BBQ n Beer, Short Circuited Brewing, the list goes on. 

There were no books or BYo articles about no chill cubes either. I see you do that though. Haven't gotten botulism either I assume?

And a critical eye that you purport to have would pick up that Janish brewed two completely different beers then passed one off as no good to further his agenda.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

djebel said:


> Sound advice, but the problem is there is HEAPS of information out there. Some of it is good, some outdated, and some just plain wrong. How does one tell (especiailly when new to a hobby) what is good information, and what is not?


Read Terri Fahrendorfs Closed Vessel fermentation, this is where it all started. It was printed in Zimurgy a number of years ago, taken out of context and the gullible followed. I'm sure if someone like Gash slug or Dr Hans wrote that using a pressure cooker to brew beer there would be the same people following that advice. Ask Palmer, Strong, Colby, Daniels, Oliver,Papazian, Mosher, Bristow, Bamforth. Not one has come out in support of pressure fermentation.
It should be about what Fahrendorf wrote about initially, pressure at the close of fermentation to naturally carbonate beer.


----------



## Reg Holt

I think if you reaearch Chris White a little more you will find he is not fo pressure fermentation. Also look more into the scientific results from which Scott Janish reaped his knowledge. Forget about the drongoes who are trying to promote Pressure vessels and see what real brewers advise.


----------



## Grmblz

Let's not forget that the pressure at the bottom of a 5mtr fermenter is 6psi (sorry Mark) so even if commercial guys don't actively spund there's still pressure involved.
I've tried it, and don't do it anymore, in my case the perceived benefits of quicker turn around are simply better served by just using Kveik. 
This is just personal choice and I would encourage anyone interested to do a split batch, using higher temp/pressure on one and normal temp/no pressure for the other. You can then make an informed choice whether or not it's for you and your preferred style.


----------



## Grmblz

Oh, and if speed really is your thing then do one at 35c with Kveik


----------



## kadmium

Head pressure and hydro pressure are different, and we are talking at a home brew scale of 10PSI (I don't run at higher, due to too much ester reduction) but I am simply stating try it for yourself and see.

I also think that Scott knows what he is talking about, but you have to admit that stacking an 'experiment' in that way is detrimental to his credibility.

I also don't accept that I am 'gullible' by pressure fermenting, it's what I have looked into and decided on. 

Pressure fermenting has not been something accessible to home brewers until fairly recently, and I am sure all those old fossils you gave examples of would have turned in their graves (or their one foot) at the thought of putting hot wort into cubes and letting them sit in the garage. But yet, I notice you no chill. Must be gullible then.


----------



## frosty3

wide eyed and legless said:


> Dry yeast, "make sure you oxygenate, aerate your wort, 10 years ago maybe now dry yeast goes straight into anaerobic fermentation! Adding oxygen is asking for trouble.


Am I in trouble?? I still oxygenate to give it the best chance to do its magic.


----------



## mje1980

wide eyed and legless said:


> Read Terri Fahrendorfs Closed Vessel fermentation, this is where it all started. It was printed in Zimurgy a number of years ago, taken out of context and the gullible followed. I'm sure if someone like Gash slug or Dr Hans wrote that using a pressure cooker to brew beer there would be the same people following that advice. Ask Palmer, Strong, Colby, Daniels, Oliver,Papazian, Mosher, Bristow, Bamforth. Not one has come out in support of pressure fermentation.
> It should be about what Fahrendorf wrote about initially, pressure at the close of fermentation to naturally carbonate beer.


My only interest in getting a pressure fermenter ( all rounder or similar, no interest in a valve on the bottom ) is to skip a secondary and crash chill in primary and then closed transfer to keg. Bit off topic but is it possible to just use the co2 to do this ? Gravity sample? 

I’m quite happy to wait for my lagers.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I wouldn't say pressure fermenting is new to home brewers, Terri Fahrendorf wrote her article 30 years ago, so definitely not new.
I was answering toddyboy )Quote- My goal isn't necessarily to ferment under pressure but to be able to carbonate in the FV at some point before bottling.)
I was suggesting an easier way to achieve what he wants, I have never been against pressure fermentation, I am just for doing it as intended, as most craft and micro breweries do it.


https://terifahrendorf.com/Closed-Pressurized-Fermenatation.pdf





mje1980 said:


> My only interest in getting a pressure fermenter ( all rounder or similar, no interest in a valve on the bottom ) is to skip a secondary and crash chill in primary and then closed transfer to keg. Bit off topic but is it possible to just use the co2 to do this ? Gravity sample?
> 
> I’m quite happy to wait for my lagers.


Yes if you are cold crashing with dissolved CO2 in the beer but you will still need to use the CO2 bottle to push it through.




frosty3 said:


> Am I in trouble?? I still oxygenate to give it the best chance to do its magic.


The dry yeasts have come a long way, they come packed with sterols and minerals most will advise to sprinkle or re hydrate but not to add oxygen, the yeast just doesn't need it. The density of the wort plus the fermentation would probably get rid of most oxygen, just means you have been doing something that isn't needed with a possibility of it being detrimental.


----------



## toddyboy

kadmium said:


> Hey mate. Just to add, if you have something dangling into the liquid and a spunding valve ontop, it will draw liquid out the spunding valve and ruin it (if I am interpreting that right)
> 
> Don't worry about the yeast dropping into the liquid. Plenty of people add the dry yeast to the fermenter and add wort ontop. It's not harmed if it gets stirred in.
> 
> I would:
> 
> Add wort to fermenter. Add yeast. Make sure its well aerated. Either set pressure with gas or leave. Depends on what you prefer. Adding gas early can suppress ester production of yeast.
> 
> Ferment at 10PSI. Once you're a few days from crashing, set spunding valve to 15, raise for a rest around 20c.
> 
> Cold crash, gelatine fine, what ever you need to do. Attach gas, and let it cold condition in the fridge on 10PSI for a week (don't want green beer, let's it clear up a bit etc)
> 
> Attach bottling gun, bottle away.
> 
> ????
> 
> Profit.



Your process is what I will do for my next brew. It's what I was piecing together myself so thank you for confirming my thoughts.

I managed to get the bottling gun sorted. Pretty nifty tool. I was skeptical about the quality of the brew that I had in the FZ but I tried it during my bottling experiment and it was drinkable. My eyesight is still working so it must be ok. However, the bottles I filled on Sunday that were fine to drink that day in terms of carbonation were flat as a tack last night when I tried one. Something went wrong either in the carb or bottling process.

I did just read that I should have my bottles at a similar temp to the beer I am bottling, which I didn't do, so that's something to try next brew. I used the PRV to purge the CO2 from the FZ and had my cylinder set at around 3psi. It seemed to have more head than I have experienced when using the bucket to bottle from, which was fine when pouring straight from the keg into a glass to drink on the spot. Any thoughts on that one?


----------



## kadmium

toddyboy said:


> Your process is what I will do for my next brew. It's what I was piecing together myself so thank you for confirming my thoughts.
> 
> I managed to get the bottling gun sorted. Pretty nifty tool. I was skeptical about the quality of the brew that I had in the FZ but I tried it during my bottling experiment and it was drinkable. My eyesight is still working so it must be ok. However, the bottles I filled on Sunday that were fine to drink that day in terms of carbonation were flat as a tack last night when I tried one. Something went wrong either in the carb or bottling process.
> 
> I did just read that I should have my bottles at a similar temp to the beer I am bottling, which I didn't do, so that's something to try next brew. I used the PRV to purge the CO2 from the FZ and had my cylinder set at around 3psi. It seemed to have more head than I have experienced when using the bucket to bottle from, which was fine when pouring straight from the keg into a glass to drink on the spot. Any thoughts on that one?


Most important is to purge the bottle you are filling first, and then you need to keep head pressure in the bottle. Is it one of those counter pressure fillers? Like a Blichmans knock off?

You should have two triggers, one purges gas and one fills. Purge the bottle, and fill it under pressure. Should hold carbonation for a long time, but also depends how much co2 was in the beer.

If it's freshly fermented and only done at around 10psi at room temp, it will be undercarbed. You would need to chill the beer down in the fermzilla, gas it with 10psi connected for a few days to a week, to ensure plenty of co2 is in the liquid.

If the beer was a little flat going into the bottles, the co2 will come out of solution and into the headspace of the bottle, making it flat.


----------



## toddyboy

kadmium said:


> Most important is to purge the bottle you are filling first, and then you need to keep head pressure in the bottle. Is it one of those counter pressure fillers? Like a Blichmans knock off?
> 
> You should have two triggers, one purges gas and one fills. Purge the bottle, and fill it under pressure. Should hold carbonation for a long time, but also depends how much co2 was in the beer.
> 
> If it's freshly fermented and only done at around 10psi at room temp, it will be undercarbed. You would need to chill the beer down in the fermzilla, gas it with 10psi connected for a few days to a week, to ensure plenty of co2 is in the liquid.
> 
> If the beer was a little flat going into the bottles, the co2 will come out of solution and into the headspace of the bottle, making it flat.



Yeah, it's the Blichmans knock off bottle filler from Kegland.

I purged first then filled and sealed in my swing top bottles right away. I cold crashed the FZ for about 4 days in my fermentation fridge then hooked up the cylinder at about 12psi for about 2 days. It was also sitting at around 12psi for about 7-10 days during fermentation. It was good right out of the FZ on the day, flat as a tack yesterday and a bit better today. When I poured it while cooking dinner, I wasn't my normal gentle self and poured it straight into the jar without tilting to give it some head.


----------



## Half-baked

toddyboy said:


> I purged first then filled and sealed in my swing top bottles right away


What temp was the fz while you were carbonating?

When I bottle from a keg (using a beer gun), I like to have the beer around 2oC at 15 PSI. Then vent it to around 3 PSI as you did. Bottles at 2oC too. You’ll lose some carbonation during the bottling, in fact you want to, to ensure you’re capping on foam to reduce O2.

I find that gives me the carbonation I want when I pour.

Btw, you can’t trust the carbonation if the bottle stays cold after filling, you need to warm it up then cool again to really see its carbonation.

(Ed: grammar)


----------



## toddyboy

Half-baked said:


> What temp was the fz while you were carbonating?
> 
> When I bottle from a keg (using a beer gun), I like to have the beer around 2oC at 15 PSI. Then vent it to around 3 PSI as you did. Bottles at 2oC too. You’ll lose some carbonation during the bottling, in fact you want to, to ensure you’re capping on foam to reduce O2.
> 
> I find that gives me the carbonation I want when I pour.
> 
> Btw, you can’t trust the carbonation if the bottle stays cold after filling, you need to warm it up then cool again to really see its carbonation.
> 
> (Ed: grammar)



It would have started at 2-3C, whatever the ferm fridge is set to when I opened the door and hooked everything up. Not sure what temp it would have kicked up to by the time I finished bottling. I think having the bottles at fridge temp will help next time.

I usually store at room temp then chill for at least 6 hours before drinking so that part is already in the playbook.


----------



## Prost

I'm waiting for my Fermzilla 27l to arrive from the Netherlands, it won't be here before February because it's out of stock in a lot of shops here in Europe. Knowing about a lot of the issues it has (leaking, exploding and such) I thought I'd use the time and find some useful stuff here. Expected laid back Australien homebrewers and worked my way through the whole thread because in the beginning there were some extremely helpful ideas from actual users with a lot of experience. Then it got so painful. All this sulky bickering has killed this thread. Is there a better place somewhere to find ways to make the Fermzilla safer and easier to use?


----------



## malt and barley blues

Don't worry about it you will be fine, keep the pressure around 2 to 5 PSI would be the safest way to use it.


----------



## Grmblz

Kingzilla Employee said:


> I'm waiting for my Fermzilla 27l to arrive from the Netherlands, it won't be here before February because it's out of stock in a lot of shops here in Europe. Knowing about a lot of the issues it has (leaking, exploding and such) I thought I'd use the time and find some useful stuff here. Expected laid back Australien homebrewers and worked my way through the whole thread because in the beginning there were some extremely helpful ideas from actual users with a lot of experience. Then it got so painful. All this sulky bickering has killed this thread. Is there a better place somewhere to find ways to make the Fermzilla safer and easier to use?


I have one of the original "exploding" 27L (they have changed the shape since I got mine so yours may not have the self destruct option ;-) as ^ m&bb says, keep the pressure down and you'll be fine, I've used mine up to 12psi many times with no issues and there are no stress fractures apparent, all the "he said, she said" bickering aside there is no doubt (plenty of pic's available) that they CAN fail, the question is why? I firmly believe in the case of the main vessel, it's due to over-pressure caused by the PRV and or the spunding valve disconnect becoming blocked with hop matter/trub, in the case of the collection bottle it's user error, people dropping yeast/trub into it then closing the valve, and forgetting about it.
A 23L brew doesn't leave a huge amount of head space in the 27L FZ, add in the current craze for large hop additions, couple it with a lively ferment, and you have an accident looking for somewhere to happen.
I would suggest keeping hops/pellets in a hop sock, and do an open ferment (air-lock) until the krausen has died down (about 3 days ish) then fit your spunding valve with absolutely no more than 15psi (preferably a little less) if you don't have the lid with the air-lock option, a piece of cling film held in place with a rubber band is a good substitute.
That's an easy fix, the "user error" on the other hand is a different matter.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Kingzilla Employee said:


> I'm waiting for my Fermzilla 27l to arrive from the Netherlands, it won't be here before February because it's out of stock in a lot of shops here in Europe. Knowing about a lot of the issues it has (leaking, exploding and such) I thought I'd use the time and find some useful stuff here. Expected laid back Australien homebrewers and worked my way through the whole thread because in the beginning there were some extremely helpful ideas from actual users with a lot of experience. Then it got so painful. All this sulky bickering has killed this thread. Is there a better place somewhere to find ways to make the Fermzilla safer and easier to use?



Hey guys. Sorry we have not been keeping an eye on this thread so we have not replied to much here. We have made and continue to make changes on many of our products including the FermZilla. Often once changes have been implemented we publish documents like this that specify the design change:

http://www.kegland.com.au/media/pdf/FermZilla Design Revision - Google Docs Export.pdf

Or some people with the FermZilla said that they had an issue with the carbonation caps requiring too much force to seal so we made changes and released this document:
https://www.kegland.com.au/media/pdf/KL10788 - Carbonation Cap Improvements April 2020.pdf

We also continue to make other accessories and other improvements. If we do sell a product and for any reason we find that product to be faulty it would also be replaced. 

We make a lot of new products every year and certainly if we get feedback that customers want something changed we generally act on this fairly quickly. If you do have any particularly difficult issue that you have not been able to solve I would make sure to send us an email and include any photos or video of the issue.


----------



## frosty3

Kingzilla Employee said:


> I'm waiting for my Fermzilla 27l to arrive from the Netherlands, it won't be here before February because it's out of stock in a lot of shops here in Europe. Knowing about a lot of the issues it has (leaking, exploding and such) I thought I'd use the time and find some useful stuff here. Expected laid back Australien homebrewers and worked my way through the whole thread because in the beginning there were some extremely helpful ideas from actual users with a lot of experience. Then it got so painful. All this sulky bickering has killed this thread. Is there a better place somewhere to find ways to make the Fermzilla safer and easier to use?



Here is a video to start with, then check out all his other ones on the Fermzilla.



Other than that read the user manual and don’t be silly just because it says it rated to 35psi there is no need to ferment at that pressure.


----------



## Prost

Cheers! From what I've read I will absolutely avoid more than 15psi, that's for sure. This thing has its issues but I just love the general idea of it, so I want to try to make it as safe as possible. Should not be the users' job, but well... 
For example avoiding a volcano that clogs the spunding valve with this thing here: 





Great and simple solution! More like this!


----------



## Prost

Another thing that came to mind was a PRV for the colletion container. I asked KegLand if there is any way to attach one to the container. I didn't get a reply yet. 
I plan on attaching a picnic tap to the container to release some pressure before screwing off the container when getting rid of trub/harvesting yeast. It will not be pretty I guess, but better than trying to depressure with turning loose the caps slowly. What do you guys think? In theory one could even harvest yeast like this directly without taking off the collection container.


----------



## malt and barley blues

Kingzilla Employee said:


> Cheers! From what I've read I will absolutely avoid more than 15psi, that's for sure. This thing has its issues but I just love the general idea of it, so I want to try to make it as safe as possible. Should not be the users' job, but well...
> For example avoiding a volcano that clogs the spunding valve with this thing here: View attachment 119645
> 
> 
> Great and simple solution! More like this!


As you can see the only pressure in the fermenter is through the restriction of the post, though it is a great way to not damage the gauge and spunding valve. Don't connect it.


----------



## Prost

malt and barley blues said:


> As you can see the only pressure in the fermenter is through the restriction of the post, though it is a great way to not damage the gauge and spunding valve. Don't connect it.


I'm sorry, but I don't seem to understand your answer. What wouldn't you connect? I have not actually built this yet, this is a picture of a setup I took from a Facebook group.


----------



## KegLand-com-au

Kingzilla Employee said:


> Cheers! From what I've read I will absolutely avoid more than 15psi, that's for sure. This thing has its issues but I just love the general idea of it, so I want to try to make it as safe as possible. Should not be the users' job, but well...
> For example avoiding a volcano that clogs the spunding valve with this thing here: View attachment 119645
> 
> 
> Great and simple solution! More like this!



Nice work. That is the cleanest fermenting fridge I have ever seen.


----------



## Prost

Likewise...


----------



## Nullnvoid

KegLand-com-au said:


> Nice work. That is the cleanest fermenting fridge I have ever seen.


Yeah I'm suspicious..... hahahaha


----------



## MHB

KegLand-com-au said:


> Nice work. That is the cleanest fermenting fridge I have ever seen.


Probably the newest, at a stab I'd say that's its first run.
Mark


----------



## Grmblz

What happens when hops/trub block the gas disconnect and PRV?
Anyone that dry hops in the keg has had blocked poppets, you soon learn to use a sock, and if a disconnect can get blocked so too can the PRV.
I used to use the airlock lid for initial ferment, and have had the airlock block and get blown out, so now have a 13mm blow off tube, no problems so far, the pressure lid gets fitted after krausen collapses, FZ v1.0 still going strong, although I never use more than 12psi/83kpa.


----------



## Prost

KegLand-com-au said:


> Hey guys. Sorry we have not been keeping an eye on this thread so we have not replied to much here. We have made and continue to make changes on many of our products including the FermZilla. Often once changes have been implemented we publish documents like this that specify the design change:
> 
> http://www.kegland.com.au/media/pdf/FermZilla Design Revision - Google Docs Export.pdf
> 
> Or some people with the FermZilla said that they had an issue with the carbonation caps requiring too much force to seal so we made changes and released this document:
> https://www.kegland.com.au/media/pdf/KL10788 - Carbonation Cap Improvements April 2020.pdf
> 
> We also continue to make other accessories and other improvements. If we do sell a product and for any reason we find that product to be faulty it would also be replaced.
> 
> We make a lot of new products every year and certainly if we get feedback that customers want something changed we generally act on this fairly quickly. If you do have any particularly difficult issue that you have not been able to solve I would make sure to send us an email and include any photos or video of the issue.


Took me a while to get to read this... And great to hear that what I thought about is being worked on! Pressure release valve caps for the container. I guess they will be great for purging gas. Any idea how they will react when used for releasing pressure when the container is full of trub/yeast? I'd want to put a big towel around it...


----------



## Prost

Grmblz said:


> What happens when hops/trub block the gas disconnect and PRV?
> Anyone that dry hops in the keg has had blocked poppets, you soon learn to use a sock, and if a disconnect can get blocked so too can the PRV.
> I used to use the airlock lid for initial ferment, and have had the airlock block and get blown out, so now have a 13mm blow off tube, no problems so far, the pressure lid gets fitted after krausen collapses, FZ v1.0 still going strong, although I never use more than 12psi/83kpa.


I guess waiting with pressure for after Kräusen is the safest route. I'd like some more safetyfeatures nevertheless.


----------



## moovet

KegLand-com-au said:


> Hey guys. Sorry we have not been keeping an eye on this thread so we have not replied to much here. We have made and continue to make changes on many of our products including the FermZilla. Often once changes have been implemented we publish documents like this that specify the design change:
> 
> http://www.kegland.com.au/media/pdf/FermZilla Design Revision - Google Docs Export.pdf
> 
> Or some people with the FermZilla said that they had an issue with the carbonation caps requiring too much force to seal so we made changes and released this document:
> https://www.kegland.com.au/media/pdf/KL10788 - Carbonation Cap Improvements April 2020.pdf
> 
> We also continue to make other accessories and other improvements. If we do sell a product and for any reason we find that product to be faulty it would also be replaced.
> 
> We make a lot of new products every year and certainly if we get feedback that customers want something changed we generally act on this fairly quickly. If you do have any particularly difficult issue that you have not been able to solve I would make sure to send us an email and include any photos or video of the issue.



I have one of the original Fermzillas that does have stress cracks in the neck. Should I contact the NZ supplier for this or arrange someone to hydrotest it?


----------



## kadmium

moovet said:


> I have one of the original Fermzillas that does have stress cracks in the neck. Should I contact the NZ supplier for this or arrange someone to hydrotest it?


 I would be getting it replaced.


----------



## crackajack

I would love to know how many of these things are in the tip.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

moovet said:


> I have one of the original Fermzillas that does have stress cracks in the neck. Should I contact the NZ supplier for this or arrange someone to hydrotest it?


They are replacing them in Germany if they have stress fractures, Shikitar had a couple, both with stress fractures, I don't know if he had any joy replacing them. Come to think of it he hasn't been on here for a while. If they pressure tested them as they should be doing there wouldn't be all this fuss. I see the Yanks are grumbling now and posting pic's.


----------



## RRising

Does anyone here know the dimensions of the 30L allrounder or know of any mini fridges that can fit one?

I am looking to get a mini or bar fridge as i have no room for another full sized fridge and my kegerator is normally full.

I wouldn't mind KL's upcoming RAPT fridge but it seems to be in perpetual development and possibly feature creep and there is no way it'll keep to its $500 price tag.


----------



## Malted Mick

The dimension from the website are: https://www.kegland.com.au/media/pdf/KL15233 - All Rounder_30L.pdf
I went down the same path trying to find a minifridge to fit a allrounder with no luck. Ended up finding a free 310lt Samsung on the kerb with plenty of room for the allrounder plus the advantage of a freezer for my hop stock. Did the usual, fitted a STC-1000 and fan. I understand space is your issue but maybe consider another location for a normal full size free/cheap fridge. I have two allrounders and during the cooler time of year I pull one allrounder out to ambient for a DA rest and then put the other one into the fridge. The allrounders are great and compact but when it comes time to replace them I may consider the other types which have a conical bottom. It may be an advantage as when I transfer to a keg you have to tip the allrounder to avoid picking up to much trub.


----------



## Prost

I thinking about doing some smaller batches in my 27l Fermzilla (when in finally arrives...). Usually I will do 20-25 liters but for trying out recipes I would like to try about 5 liters every now and then. Does anybody have experience with volumes that small in the Fermzilla? I have no idea how that much headspace would affect fermentation. Any ideas what I should keep in mind? Of course I will keep the container closed.


----------



## TC53

A California home brewer here, with my first batch going in my second FermZilla (27L). I brew mostly NEIPAs and like to add my dry hops just as active fermentation begins to slow. Up to that point, I use a blowoff hose, but after adding the dry hops (purged with CO2, through the collection jar), I swap out the blowoff hose for a gas connector, then add a bit of pressure (2 psi), mainly to protect against oxygen exposure. After the dry hops have been in the beer for 3-4 days, I like to remove whatever trub and hop residue I can. To do this, I remove the gas line, slowly release pressure through the PRV, then close the butterfly valve and remove and empty the jar. Sometimes I do this a second time. After that, I cold crash for a couple of days before transferring to a keg. 

Today, four days after dry hopping my current batch, a week after brewing, the beer seemed pretty settled, with the collection jar full of hop residue and trub, along with more of the same in the fermenter just above the valve. When I opened the PRV to release the pressure before removing the jar, the beer started bubbling and foaming. I stopped and waited an hour or so for things to settle again. When I tried again later, again the beer started bubbling and foaming as I released pressure. I'm only on my fifth or sixth batch using the FermZilla, but I don't recall getting this agitation and foaming in the past when I released what I thought was only a minimal amount of pressure. I used more dry hops this time around, but only by about an ounce (10 this time; 9 in my last batch)

Any advice? Is the beer absorbing CO2 and getting a bit carbonated when I have it under only about 2 psi (and still at 68-70 degrees F? Should I not be applying any pressure (if I am not already fermenting under pressure). What's causing this foaming as I release pressure? Thanks for any help you can offer.


----------



## WEF

TC53 said:


> A California home brewer here, with my first batch going in my second FermZilla (27L). I brew mostly NEIPAs and like to add my dry hops just as active fermentation begins to slow. Up to that point, I use a blowoff hose, but after adding the dry hops (purged with CO2, through the collection jar), I swap out the blowoff hose for a gas connector, then add a bit of pressure (2 psi), mainly to protect against oxygen exposure. After the dry hops have been in the beer for 3-4 days, I like to remove whatever trub and hop residue I can. To do this, I remove the gas line, slowly release pressure through the PRV, then close the butterfly valve and remove and empty the jar. Sometimes I do this a second time. After that, I cold crash for a couple of days before transferring to a keg.
> 
> Today, four days after dry hopping my current batch, a week after brewing, the beer seemed pretty settled, with the collection jar full of hop residue and trub, along with more of the same in the fermenter just above the valve. When I opened the PRV to release the pressure before removing the jar, the beer started bubbling and foaming. I stopped and waited an hour or so for things to settle again. When I tried again later, again the beer started bubbling and foaming as I released pressure. I'm only on my fifth or sixth batch using the FermZilla, but I don't recall getting this agitation and foaming in the past when I released what I thought was only a minimal amount of pressure. I used more dry hops this time around, but only by about an ounce (10 this time; 9 in my last batch)
> 
> Any advice? Is the beer absorbing CO2 and getting a bit carbonated when I have it under only about 2 psi (and still at 68-70 degrees F? Should I not be applying any pressure (if I am not already fermenting under pressure). What's causing this foaming as I release pressure? Thanks for any help you can offer.



The only way you're really going to know accurately how much pressure is present is by attaching a blowtie spunding valve & pressure guage such as the following; Integrated Gauge BlowTie Spunding Valve Kit (0-15psi) to the Input/Gas input connector of the FermZilla.

With this setup you can accurately regulate the pressure in the FermZilla and see how much pressure is present, 

You can still hook up your CO2 line to the 'output float tube line' of the FermZilla which may desirable to bring up to a desired pressure, obviously you'll need to adjust the spunding valve and CO2 tank to match one another otherwise you may have excess/wasted CO2 spill coming from the from CO2 tank. Adjusting it this way ensures a truly regulated and known pressure in the Fermenter (such as pressure fermenting) but also allows excess CO2 pressure created by the fermentation to be expelled via the spunding valve through a sterile blowoff hose/bubbler...


----------



## duncbrewer

TC53 I use a fermentasaurus gen 1, Gen 2 and a Gen 3.

The 1 and 2 have butterfly valves, I just close those and then take the collection bottle off, ____ carefully / slowly with a collection bowl underneath it and a tea towel around the neck ____ I do this under pressure even 25 psi sometimes some drips but normally not from the ferment vessel.
Why the palaver, because if you just close the valve and take the collection vessel off its' under a lot of pressure, jets off, mess +++ and a yeast shampoo.
I don't think you need to stir up your beer and equalise the pressure.

Extra note I attach a connector to the liquid out post with a party tap ( all sanitised ) before starting this.
ONce collection vessel off and emptied and washed under the tap and sprayed with starsan, spray the valve threads etc of the fermentasaurus and then fill the collection vessel with beer / foam to the brim ( usually a lot of foam and a little beer ) then final spray of the butterfly valve and replace the collection vessel.
Reopen the butterfly and volcano of activity and all stirred up but basically no oxygen entry and then the other trub, yeast etc starts to drop in.

You must have a spunding valve as WEF mentions and the one shown is best value and works well.

It is perfectly possible to finish the ferment under enough pressure ( ferment generated ) that the beer is fully carbed by the time cold crashing finished and ready for transfer. Watch out for Hop creep with all of those hops ( or drink fast).


----------



## TC53

Thanks, WEF and duncbrewer. I appreciate the suggestions. Are both of you thinking that the foaming/bubbling I was experiencing was due to the pressure being higher than the 2 psi my regulator indicated, extra pressure from CO2 still being generated by continued fermentation? 

I do have a Blow Tie, and I do understand that adding that would ensure an accurate reading of pressure in the tank. I'll try that with my next batch. 

Duncbrewer, are you saying you don't release pressure from the tank before closing the valve and removing the collection jar? I thought that would leave the collection jar still pressurized, making it very difficult to unscrew and spraying trub/hop residue everywhere.

Eventually yesterday, I was able to release the pressure from the tank, very slowly, without the foaming I had earlier. I emptied the collection jar, cleaned and sanitized it, then reattached it, purged with CO2, then reopened the valve. Duncbrewer, I like your suggestion of filling the empty, sanitized jar with beer/foam from the fermenter before reattaching. Will try that next time.

Following a cold crash, I plan on doing a closed transfer to a keg for the first time, using the method Gash posted on the YouTube Home-brew Network. A question: If the beer has been under a little pressure during the cold crash, will it have started to carbonate by then, and if so, am I going to run into foaming issues in the closed transfer? Any suggestions to make that process go smoothly? Thanks again.


----------



## WEF

TC53 said:


> Thanks, WEF and duncbrewer. I appreciate the suggestions. Are both of you thinking that the foaming/bubbling I was experiencing was due to the pressure being higher than the 2 psi my regulator indicated, extra pressure from CO2 still being generated by continued fermentation?
> 
> I do have a Blow Tie, and I do understand that adding that would ensure an accurate reading of pressure in the tank. I'll try that with my next batch.
> 
> Duncbrewer, are you saying you don't release pressure from the tank before closing the valve and removing the collection jar? I thought that would leave the collection jar still pressurized, making it very difficult to unscrew and spraying trub/hop residue everywhere.
> 
> Eventually yesterday, I was able to release the pressure from the tank, very slowly, without the foaming I had earlier. I emptied the collection jar, cleaned and sanitized it, then reattached it, purged with CO2, then reopened the valve. Duncbrewer, I like your suggestion of filling the empty, sanitized jar with beer/foam from the fermenter before reattaching. Will try that next time.
> 
> Following a cold crash, I plan on doing a closed transfer to a keg for the first time, using the method Gash posted on the YouTube Home-brew Network. A question: If the beer has been under a little pressure during the cold crash, will it have started to carbonate by then, and if so, am I going to run into foaming issues in the closed transfer? Any suggestions to make that process go smoothly? Thanks again.



2 PSI may be enough to pressurise the final brew and cause the foaming otherwise yeah you could just have more than 2psi in the tank also, without the blow-tie setup it is hard to know...

*The following are my experiences with pressure fermentation and closed transfer;*

Most of my brews are kegged from the fermenter at the 9 psi mark (constant 9psi from fermentation to cold crash other than hop addition) and the closest i came to a foam over was when i was dry hopping following a Raspberry & Passion fruit adjunct addition.

I gave up on the FermZilla (too many issues for little gain) and now use the All-Rounder, i've recently upgraded to the 50L Braumeister and 60L All-Rounder but am yet to run a batch through them. I simply dump my dry hop/adjunct additions via the top lid now which is what i was doing in the end with the Fermzilla anyway. I then purge heavily with CO2 afterwards and have had no noticeable decline in flavour since using this method. This "old school" method is simpler and with the invention of these pressurised tanks purging oxygen from the tank using CO2 is achievable and simple.

I have not found any decline in flavour, hop burn etc by leaving the finished beer sitting on the trub, the beer is kegged by about day 12 anyway or much earlier if using Kveik...

Sometimes i find things can get too technical for no real benefit but a whole lot of risk and that's where i found myself with the FermZilla so cutting out the FermZilla was actually a step forward for me. I tend now to focus on the main things like minimising oxygen exposure, using RO water, creating my own water profiles (using salts) to suit my palate and sanitise everything.

Also, i use Gash's method for closed transfer to the keg with the beer at around 9 psi (fully carb'd) with no issues at all, just ensure the following is carried out;

Wash & sanitise your keg using Starsan or equivalent.
Pressurise the keg and purge any oxygen from the tank including sanitiser via the liquid out post via party tap etc.
Transfer beer from FermZilla to keg via the kegs liquid out post, this will ensure it fills the keg from the bottom up avoiding splashing and CO2 release.
You'll need to control the transfer flow by hooking up the Blow Tie to the gas in post of the keg, i find i need to ramp up the pressure significantly (30 psi) towards the end to push out the last few litres from the bottom of the FermZilla.


----------



## TC53

Thanks, WEF! I really appreciate the tips and clear advice and instructions. 

I hear what you're saying about the All Rounder as well. My current FermZilla is my second, replaced for free by our local vendor (MoreBeer) after my first one failed, when the bottom valve/spigot assembly loosened but would not come off or apart or tighten back up. Perhaps a good example of what you say about some innovations becoming so technical that the risks outweigh whatever benefit they offer. If (when?) this one fails, I am definitely headed toward the All Rounder (maybe even two, at the low price point).

A question about that. I've read some All Rounder reviews that mention some difficulties with the floating dip tube getting to the last gallon or less of beer unless you tip the All Rounder a bit. Have you had any such difficulties?

Thanks again for all of your help!


----------



## duncbrewer

TC53 said:


> Duncbrewer, are you saying you don't release pressure from the tank before closing the valve and removing the collection jar?


That's right I don't release the pressure.
Place a container below the collection bottle and undo the bottle a little bit, liquid, gas foam etc starts to come out. Be patient and then crack it open some more. Let the pressure equalise but it takes a few minutes and is quite messy. Then with the tea towel around the neck of the collection bottle undo the last bit. It sometimes sort of blows off with the residual pressure and the tea towel catches the spray that results.
Then clean out collection bottle and refill with beer and reattach. Spray starsan around a lot and use it to wash clean the vessel and bottle threads before reattaching, then I crack open the butterfly and it all boils up as it gets stirred. You might want to play with this technique with the remnants after your transfer because the vessel and collection bottle will be pressurised. I do close the butterfly valve when transferring because if the pressure does change yeast in the collection bottle will rise.
You should not get foaming issues with the transfer provided the keg has 1-2 psi less pressure than the ferment vessel. 
I would try and get it carbed whilst it's cold crashing use a chart and get the CO2 in there. You then get a chance to test the product.
I use the method on short circuit brewers


I aim to get the beer carbed by the end of fermentation and onwards thru cold crash using the fermentation CO2. No need to force carb at all.
Using this calculator





Beer Carbonation Calculator


Beer Carbonation calculator for force carbing or pressurized fermantation. Suggestion for PSI and Bar after Celsius and Fahrenheit and CO2




drhansbrewery.com





attached example to show that the pressure is quite high at the end of ferment.




But that pressure drops as you cold crash as the CO2 in the headspace goes into the beer ( but keeps the same carbonation ). So you don't carb to 27 psi at 2 celsius, you will find that the pressure drops but the vols will stay the same.

I Just use CO2 to serve and maintain carbonation in my keg fridge.

Hope this helps.

Do make sure all of those hops have dropped before the transer otherwise you might block the poppet or dip tube. 

Little filter that fits on the dip tube is worth getting and using for the big hoppy beers as an added safeguard.


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## WEF

TC53 said:


> Thanks, WEF! I really appreciate the tips and clear advice and instructions.
> 
> A question about that. I've read some All Rounder reviews that mention some difficulties with the floating dip tube getting to the last gallon or less of beer unless you tip the All Rounder a bit. Have you had any such difficulties?
> 
> Thanks again for all of your help!



No problems, I've learn't a lot from Gash's videos and can't fault his methods, they make sense and good beer.

Yeah i hate seeing the wastage from these floating dip tubes, you can't even tip it up to your mouth and skull unless you want to eat some trub that is!

I would say that you do lose a little more final brew with the All Rounder but not much more than the FermZilla.

The Snub Nose from Keg King has more of a conical bottom so i'd imagine it would be better at collecting the final liquid without much trub, i also notice they attach their floating dip tube to the temp probe rod which may be beneficial also. I chose not to run with the Snub Nose due to the narrower opening at the top but i don't think that is a huge deal breaker though.


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## duncbrewer

I found that the dip tube end could float up and fit in the space of the ring on the float. This meant that it needed jiggling to make it slip out of there, otherwise gas came down. Didn't have that problem with the free roaming dip tube. Some suggest weighting the tube a bit with a nut to stop this. Perhaps I had the tube to long?


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## Ballaratguy

I love the snub with the floating dip tube (weighted)
I only get about 1-2 Lt of trunk/hop matter in the bottom (depending on the amount of hops)
The narrow opening on the top was purposefully done to stop hands going in and scratching the inside. Just clean with a bucket blaster and KK’s abc cleaner and it’s clean in about 10 mins


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## Mysticbrewer

I couldn't find an answer to this, but does anyone have a recommendation for the length of beer tube to use when serving from an all-rounder and using a pluto gun? I was thinking the standard 1.5-2m but was not sure if I could get away with less.


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## Sidney Harbour-Bridge

If you had watched the first series of Startrek you would know "Ya canna change the laws of physics cap'n" so you will still need 1.5 to 2m


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## Vic

Mysticbrewer said:


> I couldn't find an answer to this, but does anyone have a recommendation for the length of beer tube to use when serving from an all-rounder and using a pluto gun? I was thinking the standard 1.5-2m but was not sure if I could get away with less.


You can use a much shorter tube and get a good pour. Get a length of tube shorter than required. Connect Pluto and disconnect. Place the tube in boiling water for a few seconds. Do not submerge the Pluto or disconnect. Remove from water and quickly stretch the tube and run cold water over the tube to set it. This wil constrict the tube providing more resistance and result in a good pour. Works great.


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## KegLand-com-au

Vic said:


> You can use a much shorter tube and get a good pour. Get a length of tube shorter than required. Connect Pluto and disconnect. Place the tube in boiling water for a few seconds. Do not submerge the Pluto or disconnect. Remove from water and quickly stretch the tube and run cold water over the tube to set it. This wil constrict the tube providing more resistance and result in a good pour. Works great.




If you use the 4mm ID beer line then you can get away with about 1.5 meters. With that said we have been talking about a new even smaller 3mm ID beer line in the office and do you think you guys want an even smaller 3mm ID beer line available? If we were to make a 3mm ID Evabarrier beer line you would be able to get away with about 0.5meters. Keen to get your thoughts on this one guys.


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## mynameisrodney

Isn't that already on your website?

Edit








EVABarrier 3mm (1/8) x 6.35mm (1/4) Double Wall EVA (12meter Length in Bag) Beer Line / Gas Line


Swap out your 4mm or 5mm hosing for this smaller internal diameter 3mm hosing coupled with 6.35mm duotight ball lock disconnects (KL24242 and KL24235) for a neat and tidy kegerator, keezer or cellar set up. This sized hosing is perfect for your series X or Series X plus to reduce the bundle of...




www.kegland.com.au


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## Grmblz

mynameisrodney said:


> Isn't that already on your website?
> 
> Edit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EVABarrier 3mm (1/8) x 6.35mm (1/4) Double Wall EVA (12meter Length in Bag) Beer Line / Gas Line
> 
> 
> Swap out your 4mm or 5mm hosing for this smaller internal diameter 3mm hosing coupled with 6.35mm duotight ball lock disconnects (KL24242 and KL24235) for a neat and tidy kegerator, keezer or cellar set up. This sized hosing is perfect for your series X or Series X plus to reduce the bundle of...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kegland.com.au


Looks like the critical minds had a critical fail rofl. Just more sales bs, good idea though, I ordered mine last week. The only problem with it is you're locked into push in's, either JG or duo's, I'm not a fan and prefer barbs but such is life, it'll be worth it to get rid of the coils in the fridge.
Well spotted btw.


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## KegLand-com-au

mynameisrodney said:


> Isn't that already on your website?
> 
> Edit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EVABarrier 3mm (1/8) x 6.35mm (1/4) Double Wall EVA (12meter Length in Bag) Beer Line / Gas Line
> 
> 
> Swap out your 4mm or 5mm hosing for this smaller internal diameter 3mm hosing coupled with 6.35mm duotight ball lock disconnects (KL24242 and KL24235) for a neat and tidy kegerator, keezer or cellar set up. This sized hosing is perfect for your series X or Series X plus to reduce the bundle of...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kegland.com.au



Haha. You know our products better than I do. This was spoken about but I did not realise this was already being manufactured. Looks like we have a small amount of this product already in stock too. thanks for that link. I should probably go over what other new products we have in stock too.


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## NattyJ

mynameisrodney said:


> Isn't that already on your website?
> 
> Edit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EVABarrier 3mm (1/8) x 6.35mm (1/4) Double Wall EVA (12meter Length in Bag) Beer Line / Gas Line
> 
> 
> Swap out your 4mm or 5mm hosing for this smaller internal diameter 3mm hosing coupled with 6.35mm duotight ball lock disconnects (KL24242 and KL24235) for a neat and tidy kegerator, keezer or cellar set up. This sized hosing is perfect for your series X or Series X plus to reduce the bundle of...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kegland.com.au


Haha. I was thinking the same thing!


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## Ballaratguy

Half-baked said:


> I feel guilty saying this, but the Fermzilla was a bit of an impulse buy for me. Had decided to go with the Guten fermenter, but it was out of stock. Happened to be looking at this forum when news broke, I managed to get one first release. Am quite happy with it so far! (And before anyone spruiks the benefits of stainless over plastic, I'll add it probably won't preclude me from getting a stainless conical down the track.)
> 
> I'm six days into my first fermentation, yeast has begun to flocculate and my collection jar is pretty full. Will remove tonight, but am wary about re-attaching.
> 
> If I do reattach, I'll basically do using the same principles as a counter-pressure bottle filler. It'd involve:
> 
> attaching a carb cap to the jar, attach jar to bottom of unit, purge with CO2, then under a small amt of pressure feeding the beer out through the floating dip tube into the jar via the carb cap
> gently loosen jar from the fermenter to allow CO2 to gradually escape out the lid
> when full, tighten the jar and open butterfly valve.
> But I'm conscious that'll let in a small amt of O2.
> 
> Pretty sure the benefits of collecting additional trub won't be greater than the risks of additional O2, but interested in the views of others...


I’ve got a couple of Guten fermenters one done a few brews the other brand new in the box (just opened it to make sure it was all there)
$200 & $220. Happy to post at your expense 
I stopped using them as I like to do higher volumes


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## MHB

Grmblz said:


> Looks like the critical minds had a critical fail rofl. Just more sales bs, good idea though, I ordered mine last week. The only problem with it is you're locked into push in's, either JG or duo's, I'm not a fan and prefer barbs but such is life, it'll be worth it to get rid of the coils in the fridge.
> Well spotted btw.


Should stretch onto a 4mm barb, 5mm line has no problems fitting onto a 6mm barb.
I use the steam wand on the coffee maker to heat about a barb length of the line and to warm up the barb at the same time. Warming the barb stops the line chilling when it comes into contact and grabbing.
Mark


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## Half-baked

Ballaratguy said:


> I’ve got a couple of Guten fermenters one done a few brews the other brand new in the box (just opened it to make sure it was all there)
> $200 & $220. Happy to post at your expense
> I stopped using them as I like to do higher volumes


Thanks for the offer mate, but I’ve moved on already.
I got a good couple of years out of my fermzilla and then sold second hand, managed to get an SS Brewtech Chronical at a bargain.

The fermzilla was a good bit of kit, but the allure of stainless was too strong…


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## wide eyed and legless

The stainless steel Apollo looks like a formidable bit of kit, well worth considering for those in the market for stainless fermenters. I am more that happy with the PET Apollo with the thicker wall.


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## clickeral

wide eyed and legless said:


> The stainless steel Apollo looks like a formidable bit of kit, well worth considering for those in the market for stainless fermenters. I am more that happy with the PET Apollo with the thicker wall.



Any details on the stainless? I have a couple of cheeky peak Unis on the way (30 and 50L) also have a 58L kegmenter (with cooling coil) looking at other vessels

And then probably a brewtools F80 or the jacketed cheeky 105L uni

Need to tweak my DIY glycol setup some more however


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## wide eyed and legless

clickeral said:


> Any details on the stainless? I have a couple of cheeky peak Unis on the way (30 and 50L) also have a 58L kegmenter (with cooling coil) looking at other vessels
> 
> And then probably a brewtools F80 or the jacketed cheeky 105L uni
> 
> Need to tweak my DIY glycol setup some more however


Coming out early next year, looks pretty good, tri clover fittings and extendable legs.


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## Cian Doyle

wide eyed and legless said:


> Coming out early next year, looks pretty good, tri clover fittings and extendable legs.


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## Ballaratguy

Cian Doyle said:


> View attachment 121982
> View attachment 121983


Capacity? Would it be possible to have tri clover fittings on the top as well?


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## trenta

Hi
Sorry for dragging up an old thread but I need some advice. I've just put a thermowell into the fermzilla and I believe it's been setup correctly. I've pressure tested it and I cannot hear any gas leaking, and it's also passed the soapy water test. Gas is slowly leaking somewhere but how the hell do I solve the issue when I can't hear or see where?


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## mynameisrodney

trenta said:


> Hi
> Sorry for dragging up an old thread but I need some advice. I've just put a thermowell into the fermzilla and I believe it's been setup correctly. I've pressure tester it and I cannot hear and gas leaking and it's also passed the soapy water test. Gas is slowly leaking somewhere but how the hell do I solve the issue when I can't hear or see where?


If you can see it with the soapy water, you can try pressurising and putting upside down in the bath or a bucket of water.

How slow is the leak? A very slow leak in a fermenter isn't as big of a deal as in a keg. You're not going to lose a bottle of gas.


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## trenta

mynameisrodney said:


> If you can see it with the soapy water, you can try pressurising and putting upside down in the bath or a bucket of water.
> 
> How slow is the leak? A very slow leak in a fermenter isn't as big of a deal as in a keg. You're not going to lose a bottle of gas.


No indications besides the spunding valve dropping. Bloody annoying. I have the fermzilla filled with water


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## trenta

It's losing 1-2 psi per hour


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## mynameisrodney

Take the spunding valve off overnight and put back on in the morning. If pressure hasn't changed then the problem is the spunding valve or post O ring. If it's dropped you know it's elsewhere.

If it's full to the brim with water then 2psi per hour is still a slow leak


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## trenta

mynameisrodney said:


> Take the spunding valve off overnight and put back on in the morning. If pressure hasn't changed then the problem is the spunding valve or post O ring. If it's dropped you know it's elsewhere.
> 
> If it's full to the brim with water then 2psi per hour is still a slow leak


I actually did that last night and it's not the spunding valve so what do I do?


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## mynameisrodney

trenta said:


> I actually did that last night and it's not the spunding valve so what do I do?



Well if you can't find any leaks with soap or immersion tests, I'd just re-lube all the seals and try again. 

But as I said, if you've filled it right to the top then it still could be a tiny leak not even worth worrying about.


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## KegLand-com-au

Testing with water in the vessel is a bit difficult as you will also get some gas dissolve into the liquid. As you would know if you pressurise water with CO2 the CO2 will dissolve into the water and you will get a pressure drop as the liquid becomes more carbonated.

If you immerse the FermZilla under water and cannot see bubbles then this is the best test.


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## trenta

KegLand-com-au said:


> Testing with water in the vessel is a bit difficult as you will also get some gas dissolve into the liquid. As you would know if you pressurise water with CO2 the CO2 will dissolve into the water and you will get a pressure drop as the liquid becomes more carbonated.
> 
> If you immerse the FermZilla under water and cannot see bubbles then this is the best test.


So gas it up empty? If so what PSI? Will this drain my gas bottle really quickly?


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## Mysticbrewer

trenta said:


> So gas it up empty? If so what PSI? Will this drain my gas bottle really quickly?


No need for much, you are searching for a leak, 5psi should be heaps but if that doesn't work maybe go up in 5 psi increments, what psi was the spending set to?


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## trenta

Mysticbrewer said:


> No need for much, you are searching for a leak, 5psi should be heaps but if that doesn't work maybe go up in 5 psi increments, what psi was the spending set to?


I had it fully closed to get a reading and then check again every 30 minutes and it was dropping. Eventually getting to zero. I'll empty the water and fill it with CO2 to 5 psi and chuck him in the pool and see how we go


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## trenta

No bubbles after putting her underwater. No idea why it's dropping in PSI. Any ideas?


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## Westheimer

trenta said:


> So gas it up empty? If so what PSI? Will this drain my gas bottle really quickly?


Probably best to use your air compressor to pressurise to let's say 30psi or so. You'll then be able to put it in a tub of water to check for leaks.
Waste of CO2 otherwise


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## trenta

Westheimer said:


> Probably best to use your air compressor to pressurise to let's say 30psi or so. You'll then be able to put it in a tub of water to check for leaks.
> Waste of CO2 otherwise


How do I connect up an air compressor?


----------



## djebel

trenta said:


> How do I connect up an air compressor?


Adapter hose. Put a suitable male air compressor fitting (Nitto, Jamec, Ryco, whatever your existing compressor setup uses) --> hose barb piece on one end of a length of hose, and a corny keg gas fitting on the other end.


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## mynameisrodney

I wouldn't be doing this. A Pressurised vessel with no liquid in it is far more hazardous than one full of water. If something is cracked and about to go you might pop it with a lot of force behind it.

I just realised you said fermzilla and not all rounder. Are you sure you don't have a leak from the bottom? If you've filled it up with water, sprayed everything with soapy water etc it might be easy to miss a small amount of water leaking out of the dump valve assembly.


----------



## Westheimer

trenta said:


> How do I connect up an air compressor?


This is how I do it. 
You can probably just push the nozzle onto the post and pressurise that way.


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## fifis101

The only leaking I've had to deal with on my Fermzilla is the collection chamber. It was a bit intermittant and took me a while to find but it was a crack in are area of the thread. Not through the actual container but a crack through the tooth of the thread. This must have made it not apply even force on the o-ring and allowed a small drip. I got a new collection chaner and all was good. Now I just have to try and not crack the new one because undoing the collection chamber is one of the most difficult and frustrating things you can do!


----------



## trenta

Sorry I should have mentioned it is an all rounder so can only leaking from the top. I pressurised it to 5 psi and put it in the bath and no bubbles. It's got me stuffed


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## fifis101

Mmmmmm....... does the vessel actually lose all it's pressure? It's not just something weird going on with the gauge? I personally think 5psi is a bit low to look for a leak, especially if your are brewing at a higher pressure.


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## Half-baked

fifis101 said:


> It's not just something weird going on with the gauge?



Trenta, are you keeping the spunding valve attached as it shows a drop in pressure or are you reattaching occasionally?

Either way, it might be that rather than the fermenter itself…


----------



## mynameisrodney

Half-baked said:


> Trenta, are you keeping the spunding valve attached as it shows a drop in pressure or are you reattaching occasionally?
> 
> Either way, it might be that rather than the fermenter itself…


He said earlier on that he'd tried disconnecting overnight and it still leaked, but I wouldn't rule it out yet. 

There's only so many places it can be leaking from. If you really want to find it then make up another soap solution, check that it is actually good for blowing bubbles, and make sure to give everything a good spray with it. Fill with water and pressurise to >20psi.

At this point though I'd probably just ignore it and brew anyway rather than spending time on it. If it doesn't impact your brew then who cares.


----------



## trenta

mynameisrodney said:


> He said earlier on that he'd tried disconnecting overnight and it still leaked, but I wouldn't rule it out yet.
> 
> There's only so many places it can be leaking from. If you really want to find it then make up another soap solution, check that it is actually good for blowing bubbles, and make sure to give everything a good spray with it. Fill with water and pressurise to >20psi.
> 
> At this point though I'd probably just ignore it and brew anyway rather than spending time on it. If it doesn't impact your brew then who cares.


Think I'll do that now


----------

