# Braumeister Clone (UK)



## barneey (22/7/14)

As I have already built a 20ltr in the past I thought I would share my current 50ltr build.




































I have my name down on the list for a new Aussie Control Unit

Cheers


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## barneey (22/7/14)




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## dicko (22/7/14)

Hi barneey,

Great looking unit, I like the plumbing...very neat.
Did you buy a genuine BM malt pipe?
Is the ball valve necessary on the wort return?
Is the controller the one being supplied on this forum from Lael?
Keep us all posted mate it looks like a great build.

Cheers


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## barneey (22/7/14)

dicko said:


> Hi barneey,
> 
> Great looking unit, I like the plumbing...very neat.
> Did you buy a genuine BM malt pipe?
> ...


Cheers,

Yes both the Malt Tubes are genuine BM units, one advantage of building a 50ltr unit is that you can readily buy both the 20 & 50ltr tubes (from Europe). 

On my previous 20ltr build I had to get a 20ltr malt tube fabricated @ a cost of £100.00 (included the screens).

The two malt tubes for this build set me back £175.00, I will make the screens myself from some perorated sheet.

I`ve never used a Chugger pump for a BM Clone so want some control (just in case), the valve however may not be needed in which case I will swap it out for a straight piece of pipe.

Yes the controller will be one made by Lael, the trouble I`ve found in the past with a Matho PCB is that you normally need to by the components in bulk (packs of 5 / 10) so to save all the hassle / experimentation the product Lael is making looks more than ideal as a unit.

My ultimate aim is to build a 50BM clone for way less than an original & have the option of brew size. 

I recently sold my original BM on to fund this project.

Cheers

Ps forgot the pic of the 20lt Malt pipe.


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## Cervantes (22/7/14)

Now that's looking cool...........

I have a genuine 20L BM, but am planning to build another using an old 50L Keg. That way I can brew two different beers at the same time.

I am also down for one of Lael's controllers.

Where did you get the element material from to bend yourself? How will you power it up? I'm a complete electrical dunce.

I'll be following this build very keenly.


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## barneey (22/7/14)

Bare in mind I`m from the UK so most parts will be sourced from the UK / Europe

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/CATERING-EQUIPMENT-SPARE-PARTS/_i.html?_nkw=ROD+HEATING+&submit=Search&_sid=71326961 for the heating element, which is secured by compression gland fittings. I will wait for the controller to see how it can be wired in. The rod elements are easily bent by hand and for the tighter radius a pipe bender (brakes) can be used.


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## Cervantes (22/7/14)

Barneey,

Thanks for that. Which model did you buy?

I appreciate that I'll need to work out the length for myself based on my keg diameter, but was interested to see which wattage you went with.


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## barneey (22/7/14)

As I intend to use the unit for both 20 & 50 litre brews I went for a 3000 watt. / 8 ft (2.4m) element, so quite low density. so wattage wise between an original 20 & 50 BM unit.


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## barneey (24/7/14)

A little update on my build, holding down bar now cut and drilled.






I`ve been trying to think of an easy way to make a stand for the thing to sit on + house the pump & control box.

May well have found the ideal answer in an up turned 70ltr standard stock pot, this now gives a rim height of 1.10m + plenty of room for everything else.


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## dicko (24/7/14)

Another good idea barneey and a good fit.

I would be considering some ventilation and air flow for the Chugger.
It has been reported in Australia that they can overheat.

Cheers


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## barneey (24/7/14)

Cheers,

I think some sort of mechanical ventilation (computer fans) might be the best way forward albeit maybe more complicated than need be. The trouble with one of builds its all trial and error, so very much open to any suggestions.


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## dicko (24/7/14)

dicko said:


> Another good idea barneey and a good fit.
> 
> I would be considering some ventilation and air flow for the Chugger.
> It has been reported in Australia that they can overheat.
> ...





barneey said:


> Cheers,
> 
> I think some sort of mechanical ventilation (computer fans) might be the best way forward albeit maybe more complicated than need be. The trouble with one of builds its all trial and error, so very much open to any suggestions.


I made mention of the overheating in case you were thinking of just using the bottom pot without cutting the sides out.

You could probably shape it similar to the Braumeister legs and that may be sufficient.


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## angus_grant (24/7/14)

The original Aus chugger had some problems with thermal overloads. That was fixed in a subsequent release. That being said, they still run quite hot and I don't think you'd want to enclose them. My current build just has the pump sitting on my bench next to pots, but will eventually be mounted to metal brew frame. I am hoping being attached to a metal frame will be a heat sink of some sorts.

The UK chugger might be different to the Aus chugger.


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## Cervantes (24/7/14)

Barnee,

What are skin / bulkhead fitting that you have used for the pump suction and discharge through the bottom of the pot?

Very neat looking on the onside and easy clean.

Cheers
Andy


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## barneey (24/7/14)

Cervantes said:


> Barnee,
> 
> What are skin / bulkhead fitting that you have used for the pump suction and discharge through the bottom of the pot?
> 
> ...


They are called
SKIN FITTING SS316 1/2"BSPx60mmLONG Part Number 403523
from a company in the UK http://www.asap-supplies.com/search/403523/stainless-steel-threaded-skin-fitting-403523
As most stainless bits originate from China they can be sourced from all over the world so you should find a supplier in your area.


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## lael (24/7/14)

Your main pot is fantastic! Where did you get that one and what volume & dimensions is it?


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## barneey (24/7/14)

It was a one off purchase from ebay, I had been looking for ages for a suitable donor pot, the critical dimension (to mimic an original) is the diameter which is 450mm the height is a little higher than a 50 BM unit at 650mm (100ltr pot).

Its a pharmaceutics pot which had been used for the storage of distilled water & is of very quality. 

Just one note a standard stainless Bergland 70ltr pot (easily available) has the same diameter so if you only wanted a 20BM unit , the additional 20BM malt tube could be bought and the match would also be perfect, rather than try and replicate the size of an original 20BM pot. (ie you don't then have to mess around making malt tubes - which IMHO is the biggest hurdle on the mechanical side of things).


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## barneey (26/7/14)

Top and Bottom screen made


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## lael (26/7/14)

Yeah, that is the perfect size pot in my calculations. Allows a 600mm malt pipe which is slightly taller than a brau one but shouldn't impact fluidization. 

Your plates look great! What is the ring around the outside you've used and what are the parts you've placed in center hole? Very neat so far!


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## barneey (26/7/14)

The central (pull down rod) for the build is 12mm diameter to which I threaded the top and bottom (a pet hate of mine is using threaded rod as its APITA to clean after a brew), anyway the 12mm diameter rod is a very good fit for stainless 3/8 threaded fittings. http://www.bes.co.uk/products/165a.asp part number 14473 + lock nuts. If your careful you can drill a hole through the perforated plate slight less than the tapered thread on the nipple, than a standard ss washer with the lock nut just pulls everything together. I would silver soldier the bits but fear of heat distortion put an end to that idea.

The tube around the outside is standard 3/16 beerline which may be swapped for some "u" channel silicone.

I just need to fit the element, then fingers crossed everything is ready for testing and perhaps a standard 67c mash + boil (manual made = no controller ) to make sure everything is running correctly, then its job done really , apart from making a hop filter which will either mimic the BM one or maybe a stainless hoop with meshbag, that will depend on if I use a plate chiller or IC unit to reach pitch temp.


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## dicko (26/7/14)

Keep us posted on how it goes barneey,

Here is a great design for a hop basket which lets you use an immersion chiller around the outside of it.
The unit is specifically made for the Braumeister as you can see it fits onto the centre rod

Stainless mesh hop sock


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## Cervantes (26/7/14)

barneey said:


> The central (pull down rod) for the build is 12mm diameter to which I threaded the top and bottom (a pet hate of mine is using threaded rod as its APITA to clean after a brew), anyway the 12mm diameter rod is a very good fit for stainless 3/8 threaded fittings. http://www.bes.co.uk/products/165a.asp part number 14473 + lock nuts. If your careful you can drill a hole through the perforated plate slight less than the tapered thread on the nipple, than a standard ss washer with the lock nut just pulls everything together. I would silver soldier the bits but fear of heat distortion put an end to that idea.


How does the cost of these parts compare with buying the filters pre-made from Speidel when you buy the malt pipe?

Brilliant work by the way. Definitely the inspiration I need to get started on my clone.


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## barneey (26/7/14)

dicko said:


> Keep us posted on how it goes barneey,
> 
> Here is a great design for a hop basket which lets you use an immersion chiller around the outside of it.
> The unit is specifically made for the Braumeister as you can see it fits onto the centre rod
> ...



Cheers for the website addy, I`ve seen a few bits on eBay (more than likely the same supplier), I see they do a BM 20ltr unit but cant see one for a 50BM, has anyone asked / got one made up?


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## dicko (26/7/14)

There is a link on another forum for the 50 litre unit.

I will see if I can find it


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## barneey (26/7/14)

Cervantes said:


> How does the cost of these parts compare with buying the filters pre-made from Speidel when you buy the malt pipe?
> 
> Brilliant work by the way. Definitely the inspiration I need to get started on my clone.


I was lucky enough to buy a sheet of this for the build http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=261516549295&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123 which I collected on a round trip with the pot.

I think speidel do sell the filter plates but at a cost of £50.00 each! they are rather expensive. If you have access to a jigsaw and bench grinder they can be made easily enough (3hrs for the pair).I also think speidel sale the floppy stainless filters (£12 each!) but again an EBay search will produce lots of stuff that can be cut with a pair of scissors.

As for the "Brilliant work by the way" well its near enough a clone of the original mechanics so its very much a meccano bolt together exercise. I`m more impressed with the BM builds on this site that have started to re-invent things. & the control unit is a little beyond me (fat fingers) hence I have my name on the "lael" list.

Cheers


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## dicko (26/7/14)

These guys make a 50 litre model for $110.00 I believe but it is not on their web site you have to contact them and talk to a guy named Chad I believe.

http://arborfab.com/


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## barneey (26/7/14)

Cheers have sent them a message, so will wait for a reply.

I do also have some large diameter stainless tube so might just make a standard "tube with hop bag" supported via 3 tripod lid legs (another meccano exercise). My problem is that I can silver solder but have yet to learn the art of welding (especially with thin stainless objects).


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## JB (28/7/14)

barneey said:


> Ps forgot the pic of the 20lt Malt pipe.


Can I ask a few rookie questions - or just send me off to the relevant thread/s or location if this has been previously covered & done to death ...

It looks like the malt pipe has a rubber(?) edge that sits flat on the base of the pot? How do DIY folk normally build the non genuine malt pipes, wouldn't malt pipe steel on pot steel cause an issue down the track?

Also, does the element coil then sit underneath the malt pipe?

And, where does the temp probe normally sit? I've seen them fitted to a t-piece on the wort out fitting, not sure where this would live in barneey's setup though?



barneey said:


>


My understanding:
The wort returns from the pump back into the pot through the 2 return fittings in the base of the pot, because the malt pipe base sits flush on pot that causes the returned wort to flow up through the grain then flow out & over the top of the malt pipe back into the pot.

My question:
What's the clearance from the base of the pot to the bottom filter in the malt pipe?


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## MastersBrewery (28/7/14)

JB said:


> Can I ask a few rookie questions - or just send me off to the relevant thread/s or location if this has been previously covered & done to death ...
> 
> It looks like the malt pipe has a rubber(?) edge that sits flat on the base of the pot? How do DIY folk normally build the non genuine malt pipes, wouldn't malt pipe steel on pot steel cause an issue down the track?
> 
> ...


okay
1 The rubber is actually silicone, some people like me have made their malt pipe the same diameter as Speidel and use their seal, the alternative is to slit some silicone hose.
2 Coil element sits out side the malt pipe, although on the original 50L there are two and the second smaller element is only used for the boil and sits inside the malt pipe under the bottom FB.
3 In the Original it sits inside the malt pipe under the bottom FB, most clones have it outside the Malt Pipe close to the wort inlet
4 On the original it's 110mm (from memory) on most clones it's less (lots less, mine is set for 30mm)

If your thinking of building a clone there is a wealth of information across about 3 or 4 threads on this site, let me know if you want some links( be prepared for a week or two of reading)

MB


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## barneey (29/7/14)

I think most of the questions have been answered, I have loaned out the 20 & 50 litre Malt Tubes at the moment which are of a different size to a stand alone 20 litre unit.

I can however let you have all the dims of the original 20 litre unit one.


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## barneey (29/7/14)




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## JB (29/7/14)

MastersBrewery said:


> okay
> 1 The rubber is actually silicone, some people like me have made their malt pipe the same diameter as Speidel and use their seal, the alternative is to slit some silicone hose.
> 2 Coil element sits out side the malt pipe, although on the original 50L there are two and the second smaller element is only used for the boil and sits inside the malt pipe under the bottom FB.
> 3 In the Original it sits inside the malt pipe under the bottom FB, most clones have it outside the Malt Pipe close to the wort inlet
> ...


Thanks very much MB, really appreciate the responses. I know where the threads are, I've chipped away at them here & there. Think I'll just head back to the start & do it go to whoa. Cheers


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## JB (29/7/14)

barneey said:


> I think most of the questions have been answered, I have loaned out the 20 & 50 litre Malt Tubes at the moment which are of a different size to a stand alone 20 litre unit.
> 
> I can however let you have all the dims of the original 20 litre unit one.


Thanks very much Barneey, really appreciate the updates. Cheers mate, looking very cool!


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## LiquidCurrency (31/7/14)

That's awesome Barney, thanks for your help. 

I too am on Lael's current list, and am hanging to get in to it. Got my magnetic food grade Lowara pump, and picked up a bunch of fittings. just waiting to get it all together and drill some holes in my pot :blink:

I'm looking at making a malt pipe, but am also considering just buying one from someone if it's possible. I'm in Perth and only know of one Braumeister supplier..

I could't make out the ID. It was 260mm, but was that the ID of the malt tube, or the ID of the pressed ridge? If I could get both dimensions would be appreciated.

Do you have a link to your posts from your original 20L Braumeister build?

Cheers mate!

Chris


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## barneey (31/7/14)

The internal of the malt tube (for an original 20 litre unit) is 270mm diameter , the screens being 265mm diameter, the indent of approx. 10mm supports the bottom screen.

My original build is on a UK forum Jims Beer Kit, I don't know if links to other forums are OK? but I called it the build breadmaker, so a simple google will find the page, I use the same name on any forum I post on.

Just remember the BM sell two types of 20 litre malt tubes, one for the original 20 litre unit as pictured above and the other one for the 50 litre unit (to enable a 20litre brew) they are both different sizes.

Cheers


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## LiquidCurrency (31/7/14)

Awesome thanks mate, much appreciated. I have come across the breadmaker in my searching.
Chris


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## dicko (31/7/14)

Just for everyone's info, the malt pipe on the 50 model is the same diameter as the kettle on the 20 model.
Obviously German ingenuity to use the same rolled section for each application.


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## MastersBrewery (31/7/14)

LINK more info on the 50, and hey I was right with my info earlier, just for the 50.

ED miss spell, miss read , miss brain, too early


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## barneey (1/8/14)

I`ve placed an order with Chad for the 50lt version of the Hop spider , so just waiting for the thing to be shipped.


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## barneey (3/8/14)

Glad to say the filter plates work well with the new malt tubes


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## JB (3/8/14)

barneey said:


> Glad to say the filter plates work well with the new malt tubes


*WOOP WOOP* Warning* Another probably dumb question from me: So when you lift the malt pipe up & off that spindle after the mash, some grain is going to fall into the pot isn't it? Is it minute enough not to worry about, or is there something that stops any grain falling through that I can't see? Cheers


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## barneey (4/8/14)

Once the sparge / drain has taken place ( the plate still has the rod going through it at this point). The grain bed sets itself so by the time you actually remove the malt tube its not a problem/ doesn't happen.


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## LiquidCurrency (4/8/14)

dicko said:


> These guys make a 50 litre model for $110.00 I believe but it is not on their web site you have to contact them and talk to a guy named Chad I believe.
> 
> http://arborfab.com/


Dicko, were you referring to them making a malt tube for a 50L?


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## JB (4/8/14)

barneey said:


> Once the sparge / drain has taken place ( the plate still has the rod going through it at this point). The grain bed sets itself so by the time you actually remove the malt tube its not a problem/ doesn't happen.


Aha, thanks for helping me out Barneey. Cheers


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## dicko (4/8/14)

LiquidCurrency said:


> Dicko, were you referring to them making a malt tube for a 50L?


No mate, sorry for the misunderstanding.
I was referring to the hop basket.


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## LiquidCurrency (4/8/14)

Ok cheers dicko. Am looking at either buying an original Brau malt pipe (if the price is reasonable) or getting one properly made, to suit 20L. My search continues!!


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## angus_grant (4/8/14)

Hey Liquid,

If you are getting a malt pipe made, have a think about getting an extension made as well. The 20L brau milt pipe (and mine and everyone else who uses Big W pot with 19L capacity) tops out around 6kgs grain (no actual knowledge of Brau max grain bill). That does limit you a bit with big malt bills for IPAs, big Belgians, RIS, etc, etc.

If you're going to the trouble of getting something custom made, may as well get an extension built as well.

And just because you only brew 4-6% beers now, doesn't mean it will always be so.


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## barneey (5/8/14)

I thought I might as well post the dimensions of the 20 & 50 ltr malt pipes as used on the 50 BM system.

20 pipe & 50 pipe are both approx 350 mm diameter and the heights are 265 & 470 mm respectively, you will also notice how much higher the bottom screen sits on these two, no doubt for element clearance and fluid dynamics.

So just be careful what dims you use with what system you are building.


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## LiquidCurrency (5/8/14)

angus_grant said:


> Hey Liquid,
> 
> If you are getting a malt pipe made, have a think about getting an extension made as well. The 20L brau milt pipe (and mine and everyone else who uses Big W pot with 19L capacity) tops out around 6kgs grain (no actual knowledge of Brau max grain bill). That does limit you a bit with big malt bills for IPAs, big Belgians, RIS, etc, etc.
> 
> ...


Good point Angus, thanks for the tip! I'll look at a malt pipe extension, as well as an extension for my pot so I can still get the lid on and keep the heat in.

I'm only doing extract kits at the moment so I'm not too familiar with how much grain i'll be using when I move to AG.
What amounts of grain do you think I should expect for IPA's, big Belgians and so on?


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## angus_grant (5/8/14)

Well the only big belgian I made was an 8.5% Belgian tripel which used 7.2kg's of grain.

That was a BIAB batch and I can't remember my efficiency but would imagine it was fairly woeful. A nicely designed braumeister clone would not need that much grain as efficiency should be a little higher.

Some quick calculations on my system would give me a max grain bill of just over 7kgs at 3L/kg grain. Decreasing that ratio to 2.5L/kg gives me 8.3kgs.
This is with a malt pipe which is 37cms high, which is just under my 40cm main pot height.

My normal strength beers are normally from 5 kgs to 6kgs, which fits nicely in the Big W malt pipe (30cm diameter and 27cm high)

All this is only if you want to make high-gravity beers and are against using dried malt extract or sugars to boost your gravity during the boil.

my grain bill for the tripel was 
7.2kg BB Ale malt
0.7kg raw sugar
0.098g dark candi syrup

So I should be able to squeeze that tripel out with the malt pipe extension if I assume I will get better efficiency than the 65% I got with my BIAB batch. But this is guess work as I don't have an efficiency number with my current system for big grain bills.

Edit: just did some addition and my grain bill estimate up top was incorrect once I'd grabbed the grain bill from my notes.


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## barneey (6/8/14)

A 20 litre BM tube (sold for the 50BM bucket) will also fit quite nicely into a 70 ltr standard UK pot. / if you get a tube fabricated a 30 / 35 ltr BM would easily be achievable.


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## barneey (8/8/14)

Managed to get the 2nd element squeeeeeeeezed in, not only had to miss the fittings inside but also the pump on the other side.





And if you were ever wondering what a 70ltr pot looks like when I`ve been let loose with a hole saw (note I could have made the holes all the same size but the tradesman inside me took over with 3 sizes being used - not that your ever see them)






I now have to come up with some sort of airflow hole design for the pump cooling....


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## LiquidCurrency (8/8/14)

So Barneey, that's the short malt pipe to suit the 50L but to make 20L batches. And it's in a 70L pot? What are your pot dimensions?


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## LiquidCurrency (8/8/14)

Funny. I have the exact same handwritten mark inside my brand new 34L pot at home. Must have come from the same factory


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## barneey (8/8/14)

This pot is a standard 70ltr 450mm diameter x 450mm high, I`m using it however as a base for the main pot, just thought I would show that the 70ltr would make a good donor for a 20ltr system.

The main build has a 100ltr main pot again 450mm diameter.

I don't know if anyone has tried making a larger malt pipe? ie one suitable for a 75l batch, as I have the capacity to be able to boil that much.


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## barneey (8/8/14)

> Funny. I have the exact same handwritten mark inside my brand new 34L pot at home. Must have come from the same factory


Most of the UK supplied pots used to come from Europe via a company called "bergland" one would image that the source of the pots is China somewhere & exported on a global scale.


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## barneey (8/8/14)

I`m just about to fit the circular element in my 50l BM unit.

To enable the element to be covered at all times what is the maximum height it can be from the bottom of the pot please? Using the 20lt Malt Tube

Cheers


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## barneey (8/8/14)

Just done a dry run to see if everything fits, glad to say it does


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## barneey (1/9/14)

My hop spider eventually arrived from the US











Next up was to look for an immersion chiller, not only to miss the element but to miss the spider, cant find what I`m looking for at the moment so built a stand for an old CCFC I had and will use that to cool + recirculate.


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## geogaga (15/2/15)

Hi

I was in a long process of thinking on the concept and inventory list of my own Braumeister clone, and was actually considering the same heating element, and also couldn't find a decent 1.2 height/width ratio pot. And then I found this thread. Awesome!

A was already desperate to find a kettle, and had everything sketched up with 1:1 ratio one, which did not look satisfying to my taste. And just after I found this post, I promptly searched my local eBay, and there it was. I scored the same kind of kettle, but only with 400mm diameter. Which makes it a 75l vessel. Mine was used for storing lactose :huh:. The walls are 1.2mm thick. Looks promising to me. I'm gonna go with 300x570mm malt pipe, which is gonna be a V2A stainless steel chimney pipe segment. I already have a rig with a single 21l mash tun with a proper false bottom, which is luckily of 300mm diameter, so I will be able to reuse it as one of the two filter plates.

Here is a sketched up prototype. Hopefully, it's gonna come out as nice as it is drawn.






I have two concerns though. Hopefully, someone could give me his judgement on those.

First, the gap between the malt pipe and the main vessel is gonna be 5cm. I'm planning to bend the heating element at 380mm radius, to keep it away from the malt to avoid scorching. Which will leave a ~32mm gap between the malt pipe and the heating element, and a ~10mm to the main vessel. Considering the element is going to be submerged, is there a chance to do something wrong and overheat the main vessel? My gut feeling is it's gonna be ok.

Second, the original 50L vessel uses two vortex pumps, which, as I understand, is the same analogue as Laing/Lowara/ITT. They have the same dimensions and specs. My local most affordable version is Laing Ecocirc E1-15/700B, which happen to be a replacement pump for the Braumester. I see that only one is used in the build. How does it perform in reality? Will it cope well, what's the degree of performance degradation?

Maybe someone sees a potential flaw in the sketch? I would appreciate any comment 

Thanks.

P.S. I'm in Europe, and all prices are in euros. Currently, my preliminary calculations on costs, sets me back for around 400 euros (around 600 AUD, I guess), all including shipping, and not considering the stuff I already have and can reuse, e.g. one of the false bottoms, Arduino board, 20x4 LCD display, SSRs, some fittings, tools, etc.


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## geogaga (18/2/15)

My main kettle has just arrived:


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## barneey (18/2/15)

I still need to finish my build and fully test it out, been waiting for the Lael control panel  , if I find the single pump doesn't perform how I want it to, its a relatively easy to swap it for a larger pump or 2 pumps. The bend-able elements are available in a wide range of wattage, so you could always go for a lesser wattage but add another element for getting to temp / the boil. 
There was mention earlier in the thread of getting a malt tube made, which I have done in the past on a 20l BM build, I do however like the additional comment of making extension pieces for it to add to the flexibly of the system. 

Or as you are in Germany check out the brauundrauchshop.ch Swiss site quite a few original BM bits available on there.

Your pot BTW looks exactly the same make as the one I am using.


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## geogaga (18/2/15)

barneey, yes it indeed is the same make.

I want to drill as less holes as possible, because the pot is not cheap, so nice and not easily available otherwise  And I know I can easily drill something somewhere. I'd rather go with just one element to avoid unneeded openings. Want to keep things concise.

This will be my malt pipe:






Those things are stackable, so I'm planning to have two, e.g. 330mm and 250mm, to be able to brew 20l batches minimum, and bigger batches by and putting the malt pipe segments together, if I need.
I made some calculations on the total volume (not considering grain absorption or any other side factors so far):





Should be pretty comfortable with brewing up to 50l


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## barneey (18/2/15)

Where are you buying these tubes from?

Cheers

Barneey


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## geogaga (18/2/15)

These are stove flue pipes (Schornsteinrohr in German), like here: http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/wood_burning_stoves/Single-skin-flue.html I will get mines on eBay, though. No particular preference yet.

Made out of 316 (V4A) grade stainless steel. Should be widely available locally, and have good fitting standard dimensions.


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## barneey (19/2/15)

Cheers, I didn't know they did them in 300mm diameters


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## geogaga (19/2/15)

Yeah, I'm looking through the UK sites, and the common size is up to 200m. In Germany 300m is more available, e.g. here http://www.ebay.de/itm/Edelstahl-Laengenelement-einwandig-Rohr-Kaminsanierung-80-300mm-EW-Schornstein-/231374740487


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## barneey (19/2/15)

Thanks for the link, I had looked at the UK tubes before but as mentioned the common size is up to 200mm, is there any German ones with larger diameters than 300mm? as they seem almost ideal for the project. 

Also found these http://www.ebay.de/itm/Edelstahl-Schornstein-Langenelement-doppelwandig-DW-113-300-mm-Kamin-Ofen-Rohr-/221589872156?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&var=&hash=item3397c91e1c which would give a different height 330mm


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## barneey (19/2/15)

Is the height of these taken as overall or + the collar.

Example if you were to fit 2 x 250mm would the height be 500mm or More or less?

Cheers


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## geogaga (19/2/15)

Yes, there are:http://m.ebay.de/itm/321236061388?nav=SEARCH&varId=510509284465

The ones that I checked have a fitting depth of 60mm, thus, for example, 250mm + 330mm - 60mm = 520mm. This is what I'm thinking of as a 20l/50l setup.

Smaller diameter I checked in UK have an effective height of 30mm less.


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## barneey (19/2/15)

Seems like you have hit the jackpot 

Cheers


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## geogaga (22/2/15)

The tube has arrived:











Yeah, well, it's 0.6mm thick wall, and since there is no rigid ring around it it didn't hold long as a circle. But all in all, good enough for 20eur.


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## barneey (22/2/15)

Is there a ridge to hold / support a perforated mesh FB?


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## geogaga (22/2/15)

No, there isn't. The ridge you see is on the outside. I will secure 4 pieces of L-type stainless steel profile on the bottom of the pipe to support the false bottom.


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## barneey (22/2/15)

Halfway through making the hop spider for the build.....


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## barneey (23/2/15)

geogaga said:


> No, there isn't. The ridge you see is on the outside. I will secure 4 pieces of L-type stainless steel profile on the bottom of the pipe to support the false bottom.


Another idea for you, if you were to get some bendable stainless flat bar, say 1mm thick, bend and pop rivet that onto the pot might strengthen the thing + then fix some bolts around the perimeter (through the new band) these acting as a support for the false bottom.


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## geogaga (23/2/15)

Could be. Getting the bar is not an issue. Bending might be though  I think when two 2mm thick false bottoms are in, they will form a perfect cylinder with a rigid rib cage, there should not be an issue.

Btw, just finished prototyping my Arduino Mega 2560 shield for the thing.






[SIZE=14.4444446563721px]Already dry-ran some wiring yesterday:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=14.4444446563721px]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBpC3R3ArrQ[/SIZE]


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## geogaga (23/2/15)




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## barneey (23/2/15)

1mm (normally 0.9mm) is easily bent to shape, so might be worth a try if you get stuck?

Not going for the Lael controller then?

Cheers


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## geogaga (23/2/15)

Just googled what Lael controller is (never heard of that). It's basically based on Brauduino, on which ArdBir is based. In the end, I think I will be rewriting the software either way, have a slightly different vision on functions, user interface, etc. So far the target is to brew a batch on the system. Essentially, there is just subtle difference, right? [SIZE=14.4444446563721px]And I think maybe it's easier to make one in a day or two than waiting until it's shipped. Besides from that, I think, the main driver is to go through the whole journey [/SIZE]


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## barneey (24/2/15)

I am however more of a meccano when it comes to electronic controllers, my experience with programming starts and finishes with the ability to flash something using others codes  so unless I start learning how to write code, I am grateful for the hard work to be done for me. I am sure however your code will be of use to others wanting to follow the route.

BTW have you found a source for the rubber gasket to seal the Malt Tube bottom? on one of my previous builds I used some silicone U channel


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## geogaga (24/2/15)

Yes, I did find the U channel on British eBay: http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/281055758296?nav=SEARCH

I will try to use it for both malt tube and the filter plates.

It's not easy to find them. I wanted something bulkier for the bottom support. They are easily available in various profiles in minimum 50/100m volumes from the producers or wholesellers. Hopefully, the walls of the tube will not cut through it.

I do software development for living, so, in this regard it's easier for me. But when it comes to electronics, I always blow up and burn things  Should be interesting.


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## barneey (24/2/15)

That's the stuff, IIRC I used the small stuff which worked well but no where near as good as an original seal, I wonder if it were possible just to buy a BM seal, cut it and use it instead?


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## geogaga (24/2/15)

The problem with my tube is that the edge is 0.6mm thick and even if I polish the roughness out of it, it may not be dull enough to keep the U-channel from falling apart. Something like this though, could be nice: http://www.gummi-plast.de/de/profile/u-profile/tu1-2587

I don't see why the Braumeister's wouldn't work as long as the edge doesn't cut it, of course  To reduce the pressure on the U-profile and prevent it from getting cut, I thought maybe to get a 2-3 mm solid stainless steel rod, cut a groove in it, bend it with the pipe diameter, and seal the pipe in (then, braze it, maybe). But it all sounds very complicated.

From another hand, if the grain bed does not sit fully on the bottom filter, aka false bottom, the pressure on the U-profile may not be that high.


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## MastersBrewery (24/2/15)

geogaga said:


> Just googled what Lael controller is (never heard of that). It's basically based on Brauduino, on which ArdBir is based. In the end, I think I will be rewriting the software either way, have a slightly different vision on functions, user interface, etc. So far the target is to brew a batch on the system. Essentially, there is just subtle difference, right? [SIZE=14.4444446563721px]And I think maybe it's easier to make one in a day or two than waiting until it's shipped. Besides from that, I think, the main driver is to go through the whole journey [/SIZE]


Slightly offended, ArdBir is based on Matho's controller, Matho is a member here he createdthe first true braumeister clone. I then started a thread begging for someway of having a similar controller, it was more than a year later ArdBir began, creating a single sided version of the board, which included the Aussie 50c piece in the printed art work as this was and still is Matho's Avatar.
Lael Has gone to the trouble of puting an entire kit with everything Box power connectors, and made it a plug and play assembly.

ArdBir have gone on to do some great work especially regarding the software, and on going dev, but in the end it was all based on what Matho started.

MB


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## geogaga (24/2/15)

Hm, sorry, but no offence meant. I ran into this thread: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/69155-the-brauduino-matho%E2%80%99s-controller-buy-thread/%C2 looked to me it all started in the same place (matho's Braumiser) and then got picked up by MaxN68, and resulted in ArdBir. When I talk about controller, I mean more design (and/or software), rather then the manufacturing. I think I got the chain of events right. First was matho with Brauduino, which was taken as a base for Lael's controller. In turn, ArdBir is also based on matho's software.


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## Cocko (24/2/15)

Amazing build! Barns.... respect.


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## stux (24/2/15)

Check the video 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdKQ31dLl28

The nice thing with Lael's kit at least is you can focus on the software if you want. Probably a more expensive option, but sweet build finish.

... now just to wait for the Chinese to get back to work


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## geogaga (25/2/15)

I've seen it. I'm even subscribed to the channel. Great stuff. I don't see why not to want to go through both parts. The circuit is fairly simple, the parts are widely available. That's a hobby in the end


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## geogaga (26/2/15)

The pump is there. Ordered Laing ecocirc E1-15/700B, but received Lowara ecocirc pro 15-1/65. I guess, the same pumps, as they have the same specs, and Lowara acquired ITT and Laing. They basically look identical. As far as I know, the Laing/Lowara is the one used in Braumeister. Will ask the supplier though. I think this one is [SIZE=14.4444446563721px]a[/SIZE] (upgraded?) 2014 version, as the one from 2013 had the 65°C medium limit, and the one dated with 2014 specs holds up to 95[SIZE=14.4444446563721px]°C.[/SIZE]


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## barneey (28/2/15)

Made the polyester bag for the hop filter









BTW how much was the pump?


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## barneey (1/8/15)

Thought I would update my build, as I need the chugger pump elsewhere I replaced it with two of these


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## gap (1/8/15)

So what are they???


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## boybrewer (1/8/15)

gap said:


> So what are they???


Read post #90 there liang / lowara the ones used in the Braumeister .


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## barneey (1/8/15)

Yes they are the ones that geogaga linked to, all the other bits are standard 1/2" bsp fittings although I did thread my own tube extension pieces.


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## barneey (20/8/15)

As I am using a 100l pot I have the option of extending the malt tube, the question is how? idea so far cut and shut 2 original tubes together using a clamp. Anyone know where to get cheap drum / barrel v clamps from 350mm diameter.

Cheers


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## Judanero (20/8/15)

You could try 

http://www.kwpackaging.co.uk/stainless-steel-open-top-drums.html

I don't know how their prices are though sorry.

I have been unable to find any ~300mm diameter clamps locally (I have a project that is along quite similar lines to what you're doing).


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## barneey (21/8/15)

MrL a UK supplier has just imported a few conicals which use the fast clip over snap fitting but also has a bolt adjustment, I will see if I can get one of those. Trouble with most suppliers is that the price of some of these clamps can be as much as a new Malt Tube & more.


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## barneey (25/11/15)

Spring with no malt tube




Malt Tube in place




How to lift that Malt Tube


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## barneey (13/12/15)

Nearly completed extended malt tube


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## barneey (14/12/15)

All silver soldered up & the thing didn't warp in the process.


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## barneey (30/12/15)

Very nearly there, just the final internal wiring of the elements + pumps & then the leak test / operation test.


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## barneey (17/1/16)

Finally got around to the last bits of wiring, fired up the thing and everything is working, just need to set a few parameters & get a brew on.

Many thanks to all those who made the controller project a goer.

Cheers


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## wide eyed and legless (17/1/16)

A bit cheeky putting the Braumeister label on there Barneey, should have got a label of your own made up and give yourself more credit for a job well done.


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## blotto (17/1/16)

That's an official Braumeister jacket, it would have come with the label on it.


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## DU99 (17/1/16)

AND THE COST WAS


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## barneey (17/1/16)

The jacket is an official one , which was gifted to me by another member, cost wise in the realm of £975.00 (sterling) as I have adapted the Malt Tube a standard BM can handle 13KG of grain with the extension to the tube I should in theory be able to use an extra 4kg thereby giving a max of 17KG.

I still need to brew with the thing to see how it handles & get data on volumes etc, the control panel is far in advance of the "old" BM unit I had, no idea about the capability of the current official one?

The extra bits I added to the panel, switches for the elements work well I will more than like have to add an additional heat sink to the power variable control as it gets rather warm. The thermometer placement is good for one element but expect it is too close to the secondary element, no idea though of where else to mount it & in practice the element might only get used from mash to boil & possible boil itself.

The bendable element (ring) is great and super low density. 

Future upgrades, stainless hood & I wouldn't mind a stainless bracket for the controller, oh and Wifi please


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## barneey (16/2/16)

Thought I would update the thread, brewday been and gone.
The Max the Malt Tube will hold is 17Kg & with a ratio of 4.41 75l of mashing liquor the system works as it should, having the extra boiler capacity means I can brew more beer.
The hoist worked well just a few mods required, the pump and coil also did the job very well.


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