# RecipeDB - BullsHead Summer Saison



## Tony

BullsHead Summer Saison  Ale - Belgian Pale Ale  All Grain               8 Votes        Brewer's Notes This beer is the beer all folks with no temperature control should make during summer! Actually everyone should make it during summer. Its wonderful lawnmower beer, with flavour and character. Its dry, thirst quenching and oh so drinkable, and fermented at 30 deg in the hot garage! With the cool 28 deg days at the moment my second batch has an electric blanket around it..... true story!It has a subtle fruitiness that really is something wonderfull when mixed with noble hops. It just works so well.Mash in at 52 deg for 10 min, then infuse up to 63 deg for a 45 min rest. Infuse up to 71 for 15 min and mash out. My beer went from 1.038 down to 1.002 in about 3 weeks. BE patient with this yeast as its Sloooooooow to finnish but will get there if kept hot up around the 30 deg mark.CC'd in prinary for a week and the beer settled out so clear it hardly needed filtering but came up bright clear once filtered.Yeast used is 3724 Belgian Saison   Malt & Fermentables    % KG Fermentable      6 kg Weyermann Pilsner    2 kg Weyermann Pale Wheat    0.2 kg Weyermann Acidulated       Hops    Time Grams Variety Form AA      100 g Saaz (Czech) (Pellet, 4.0AA%, 45mins)    40 g Hallertauer Mittelfrueh (Pellet, 4.0AA%, 0mins)    30 g Goldings, East Kent (Pellet, 5.0AA%, 15mins)       Misc     2 g Irish Moss         54L Batch Size    Brew Details   Original Gravity 1.038 (calc)   Final Gravity 1.012 (calc)   Bitterness 22.7 IBU   Efficiency 80%   Alcohol 3.36%   Colour 6 EBC   Batch Size 54L     Fermentation   Primary 21 days   Secondary 7 days   Conditioning 2 days


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## thesunsettree

RecipeDB said:


> This is the discussion topic for the recipe: BullsHead Summer Saison




hi tony,

looks like something i'd like to have a go at, is it a liquid saison yeast you have used? what would be a commercial style similiar that i could try. could i do a single infusion at say 66deg if i didnt step mash.

cheers
matt


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## Tony

Yes liquid yeast. Wyeast 3724 Belgian Saison.

Comercial style.......... you are going to have to search to get something similar:

http://www.slowbeer.com.au/index.php?act=v...p;productId=360

I made mine more pale as was my want 

Single infusion at 66........ NO. To hot mash. You want to mash a saison as cool as posible to get it as dry as possible so a single infusion at 63 is what your after.

cheers


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## Jim Botla

RecipeDB said:


> This is the discussion topic for the recipe: BullsHead Summer Saison



Good topic Tony been wanting to do a saison, it will be interesting to read peoples ideas.

Cheers Jim


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## thesunsettree

Tony said:


> Yes liquid yeast. Wyeast 3724 Belgian Saison.
> 
> Comercial style.......... you are going to have to search to get something similar:
> 
> http://www.slowbeer.com.au/index.php?act=v...p;productId=360
> 
> I made mine more pale as was my want
> 
> Single infusion at 66........ NO. To hot mash. You want to mash a saison as cool as posible to get it as dry as possible so a single infusion at 63 is what your after.
> 
> cheers
> 
> 
> thanks tony,
> 
> i look forward to having a crack at this.
> 
> cheers
> matt


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_

Photos of a poured one TONY???


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## winkle

Good work Tony, I might add a bit of acidified malt to my next one for some more bite.
Been meaning to do that for a while now :icon_cheers: .


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## Tony

Pic as REQUESTED!!!  :lol:


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## Hargie

...love yr work tony but that looks like a hot chick in an iron long...can ye pour her into something more _sexy_...??? :lol:


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## Tony

I tell ya............ its a bloody hard life when you have to go and pour a glass of a beer this good in a glas this sexy to please the punters.

Its pleasing me right now


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## Hargie

...thanks mate...i've firmed up a bit too...


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## Tony

It'd put a horn on a jellyfish


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## bkmad

Making this one today. A few firsts for me. First saison, first step mash, first time using acidulated malt. I'm currently at the 15min rest at 72 degrees. Looking forward to drinking this one already :icon_cheers:


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## bkmad

Ok so I've had this one fermenting for a bit over 2 weeks now with temps around 26-28 for the first week and then rising up to 30 degrees for the past few days. The SG seemed stuck on 1.012 about a week ago so I gave the fermenter a bit of a swirl and moved it out to the garage where its warmer and It gradually dropped to 1.008 but its been there now for about 4 days and won't drop any further. Is it likely that this one is done? I just don't want to bottle it if I'm going to end up with bottle bombs in a few weeks time.

I must admit I didn't use the same yeast as in the recipe, all I could get was WLP568 which is a blend of saison yeast and a belgian ale strain. http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/strains_wlp568.html

The samples taste awesome so I really want to get this into bottles.


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## fcmcg

bkmad said:


> Ok so I've had this one fermenting for a bit over 2 weeks now with temps around 26-28 for the first week and then rising up to 30 degrees for the past few days. The SG seemed stuck on 1.012 about a week ago so I gave the fermenter a bit of a swirl and moved it out to the garage where its warmer and It gradually dropped to 1.008 but its been there now for about 4 days and won't drop any further. Is it likely that this one is done? I just don't want to bottle it if I'm going to end up with bottle bombs in a few weeks time.
> 
> I must admit I didn't use the same yeast as in the recipe, all I could get was WLP568 which is a blend of saison yeast and a belgian ale strain. http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/strains_wlp568.html
> 
> The samples taste awesome so I really want to get this into bottles.


I'm not sure of your OG , and i'm not really sure wether your fermentation is still going , but i will say that my very limited experience with belgian yeasts has shown me that i must have patience...my wyeast 3724 got stuck at 1.038 after 2 weeks...a bit of racking and some swirling and she's slowly kicked off again...but i obviously still have fermentables at that level...but that doesn't help you lol
Have you though about chucking some champagne yeast at it ( neutral flavour yeast) and see if you can get it to drop further ? Probably not much left for it though....
Anyway...i'm sure some-one more experienced at these games will have some better advice !
Good luck !
Cheers
Ferg


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## bkmad

OG was 1.038 and mash temp was 64 degrees so I really was expecting a lower FG. That said, it is currently about 78% attentuation so not too bad really. I guess, with tony saying in his recipe that his got down to 1.002 I was assuming mine would too. It has dropped pretty clear over the last few days so I might try giving the wort a bit of a stir and rouse the yeast.


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## Mikedub

I'm going to BIAB this over the weekend, can only get my hands on White labs 568, see how it goes, 

 is it ok to leave in primary for the full duration of fermentation, (3 - 4 weeks) ?


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## bkmad

Mikedub said:


> I'm going to BIAB this over the weekend, can only get my hands on White labs 568, see how it goes,
> 
> is it ok to leave in primary for the full duration of fermentation, (3 - 4 weeks) ?


I'll be interested to hear how you go with that yeast as its the one I used as well. After stirring and increasing temp it refused to go any further so I bottled mine after 3 weeks. I reckon you should be right with keeping it in primary for 3-4 weeks. I believe thats what tony did for this recipe.


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## Mikedub

mashed this recipe yesterday arvo and boiled last night, for the life of me I couldn't get the temp down enough to pitch, it was 11.30pm so I thought I'll semi no-chill and pitch in the morning. Got up late, did whirlpool straight away, got the kids breakfast, sanitised the fermentor and hose, got the kids dressed, had 55 min to get to work, setup hose to siphon into fermentor and got a nice flow happening, just then the 2 year old lets the dog out the front door and he bolts off into the distance, stupid dog,  what do I do, pile the kids in the car and chase the dog around the streets, or mind the wort at this crucial point and tend to the hose before it starts sucking up the break? 
these are the questions I never thought I'd be asking myself


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## Tony

hehe awsome stuff....... these saisons are difficult stuff.

bkmad...... if its a blend, id say tis done. all you need is your temp out one deg and your mash would have been 65 and that would answer that one. usually when the yeast drops out, its a good sign its done but you cant always trust a saison yeast.... its a different beast.

let us know how they go folks


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## manticle

Got a bottle of 3711 saison saved for you Tony. Will have to try out this long slow painful yeast you always use to compare.


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## bkmad

Tony said:


> hehe awsome stuff....... these saisons are difficult stuff.
> 
> bkmad...... if its a blend, id say tis done. all you need is your temp out one deg and your mash would have been 65 and that would answer that one. usually when the yeast drops out, its a good sign its done but you cant always trust a saison yeast.... its a different beast.
> 
> let us know how they go folks



Yep figured it was done so I bottled it. Had a few on the weekend even though it had only been in the bottle for a week and a half. Awesome beer. I did mine with all saaz 50g for 90min and 25g for 20min. It has a great pilsner aroma initially, then the belgian type aroma comes through. Taste is quite belgiany, probably due to blended yeast I used and has a nice balance of malt and hops. Its still a bit cloudy but its early days yet and I didn't fine it, but tastes excellent all the same. I'll get a photo if it lasts long enough. B) 

Loving saison yeasts. Next up, a dark mild done with the same yeast. Probably a bit odd, but I reckon it will work.


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## Bada Bing Brewery

bkmad said:


> Yep figured it was done so I bottled it. Had a few on the weekend even though it had only been in the bottle for a week and a half. Awesome beer. I did mine with all saaz 50g for 90min and 25g for 20min. It has a great pilsner aroma initially, then the belgian type aroma comes through. Taste is quite belgiany, probably due to blended yeast I used and has a nice balance of malt and hops. Its still a bit cloudy but its early days yet and I didn't fine it, but tastes excellent all the same. I'll get a photo if it lasts long enough. B)
> 
> Loving saison yeasts. Next up, a dark mild done with the same yeast. Probably a bit odd, but I reckon it will work.



G'day - I just did a BIAB of this. All went well into primary using the Wyeast. Temp was reasonably high around 26-28C. She took off and yet 24hrs later she has stopped burping??? Any ideas or is this normal for this type of yeast?
thanks for any help


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## Mikedub

as it turned out I ended up using the WL565, I read its notorious for stalling, and it has, 1046 down to 1014 atm, I made a 1.5 l starter over the week leading up to the brew and used 2/3 of it to pitch. awesome Krausen!, 
I kept the remaining third to add if it did stall, (my thinking is it would be like bringing in scab labour to cross the picket line), I'm prepping it up today, is there any reason I shouldn't add the remainder?


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## Mikedub

looks like the scab labour did the trick, some activity this morning, 
I'm a simple man, one little airlock bubble has made my day, 

Bada Bing, have you taken a reading to see ?


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## Bada Bing Brewery

Mikedub said:


> looks like the scab labour did the trick, some activity this morning,
> I'm a simple man, one little airlock bubble has made my day,
> 
> Bada Bing, have you taken a reading to see ?



Yes mate and it is all good - I'm down to 1010. I had some advice from Nev at Gryphon Brewing. He basically said liquid yeasts are a different beast to the dried gear. He also said airlocks are really only for entertainment value - he doesnt use them. I found it unnerving not to see airlock action. I just pitched a Belgain Wit using wyeast and ther airlock hasn't moved. It is fermenting nicely though so learned something new .....
The Saison is tasting very nice though ..... cant wait to get into it.
Cheers


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## Mikedub

yeah, its a beaut recipe, cheers Tony,

I'm pretty excited about getting so much flavour from a yeast, its spicy as, (us05 had been my stock standard for a while)


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## Tony

i shed a tear when my keg blew


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## Mikedub

bugger, 


think I'll get another in while weather is still hot, after bottling this one can i just whack a fresh wort in on top of the yeast cake? what do you reckon?,


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## Pumpy

Yes Tony you have inspired me to brew a Saison the last one was nice but a bit strong , SWMBO called it loony juice .

I feel that a light drinking Saison is more in keeping the the original style 

Pumpy


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## Bada Bing Brewery

This turned out great. Very nice Tony - Thanks for the recipe - this will be a regular
Cheers
BBB


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## Tony

Awsome...... glad you loked it.

Its a bitch to brew in winter though i may have a go at one with the fermenter sitting next to the fireplace..... :blink: never thought id say that!


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## Bada Bing Brewery

This can be an all year rounder for me here in Gero WA. I have this side by side with a Belgian Wit and they are both sensational - my wife loves them both (she's a clog)
Got to love the Belgians - they are the New Zealanders of Europe but they know how to make fantastic beer .......


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## humulus

G,day Tony how will this go with 3711 French saison?,my shed hovers around 26dg now,reckon its time to knock one out!!!!!!


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## Tony

Im sure it will be fine mate...... just with a different character from the yeast.

Hook in and let us know!


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## punkin

Just stuck this one in the brewmate, played with the grain to lift the alc a little. I'll definately be doing this one over the summer. Would be a good catchup as i'm only allowed one 60l fermenter in the house and have no temp control i can stick a double batch out in the shed.

I have some other yeasts that are more neutral and still like the hot temps, may even have a play with those after the first batch to see how they go in a beer. Selected for fermenting mollasses.


I'll get some yeast in and acidulated malt and give it a whirl. Thanks Tony.


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## Tony

Man....... talk about pissed off.

Last night i noticed Ross had Wyeast farmhouse ale in stock............. i have been waiting for this to come back for a long time!

I got all excited and started an order........ Ooooooo Saison with farmhouse ale  

I had to get up and sort out my kids, then got distracted, then cooked dinner, then put kids to bed........... and when i sat down a few hours later and placed the order.......... some low life had putrchased the last of them.

The hide of them :angry: 

thank god G&G had some in stock and i have a pack on its way.

Also ordered a french saison to try out.

So this summer i plan to do at least 3 saisons.... one with farmhouse ale, one belgian and one french.

BRING ON THE HEAT!


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## winkle

Tony said:


> Man....... talk about pissed off.
> 
> Last night i noticed Ross had Wyeast farmhouse ale in stock............. i have been waiting for this to come back for a long time!
> 
> I got all excited and started an order........ Ooooooo Saison with farmhouse ale
> 
> I had to get up and sort out my kids, then got distracted, then cooked dinner, then put kids to bed........... and when i sat down a few hours later and placed the order.......... some low life had putrchased the last of them.
> 
> The hide of them :angry:
> 
> thank god G&G had some in stock and i have a pack on its way.
> 
> Also ordered a french saison to try out.
> 
> So this summer i plan to do at least 3 saisons.... one with farmhouse ale, one belgian and one french.
> 
> BRING ON THE HEAT!



Oh the humanity! I was getting a pack of farmhouse on the weekend with our bulk buy but switched it for a pack of Belgian wit at the last minute cause I'd promised SWMBO I'd brew a jungle wit next up  

Get some more in pretty please, Ross...


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## Tanga

Hi,

I put down a dark Saison yesterday with Farmhouse Ale. Does it ferment out better than the 3711? I'm hoping to get it fermented down, bottled, and drinkable by Christmas.


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## winkle

Tanga said:


> Hi,
> 
> I put down a dark Saison yesterday with Farmhouse Ale. Does it ferment out better than the 3711? I'm hoping to get it fermented down, bottled, and drinkable by Christmas.



Should be done in 8 days, around 1.005 FG (depending on how high the OG was of course)


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## Tanga

winkle said:


> Should be done in 8 days, around 1.005 FG (depending on how high the OG was of course)



Thanks winkle, OG was 1048. I hope you're right, I think I'm going to call it "The Dirty Farmer" if it works out.


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## punkin

Are any of the yeasts available as dried yeast?

I'll have to google saison, first i'd heard of it when i read this thread...but i'll be reading more.


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## Tony

Tanga said:


> Thanks winkle, OG was 1048. I hope you're right, I think I'm going to call it "The Dirty Farmer" if it works out.



Add a bit of Brett and you could call it Brett the funky farmer 



punkin said:


> Are any of the yeasts available as dried yeast?



Ummmmmmmmmmmmm............ no!

get a liquid, smack it, let it swell, pour it in........ easy as that!


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## punkin

Tony said:


> Add a bit of Brett and you could call it Brett the funky farmer
> 
> 
> 
> Ummmmmmmmmmmmm............ no!
> 
> get a liquid, smack it, let it swell, pour it in........ easy as that!




Ok thanks. It's just that i have temp tolerant yeasts (dry) here that are good up to 40C and wondered it that was the only requirement or if the yeast had to be one that delivers certain flavours.


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## drtomc

Belgian yeast strains are distinctive for the strong and various flavor profiles the contribute to a beer. The Wyeast Belgian Saison (and no doubt the other Saison strains - I have not tried them yet) has a very distinctive profile. Buy yourself a bottle of the Dupont Saison and try!

T.


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## manticle

Tony said:


> Man....... talk about pissed off.
> 
> Last night i noticed Ross had Wyeast farmhouse ale in stock............. i have been waiting for this to come back for a long time!
> 
> I got all excited and started an order........ Ooooooo Saison with farmhouse ale
> 
> I had to get up and sort out my kids, then got distracted, then cooked dinner, then put kids to bed........... and when i sat down a few hours later and placed the order.......... some low life had putrchased the last of them.
> 
> The hide of them :angry:
> 
> thank god G&G had some in stock and i have a pack on its way.
> 
> Also ordered a french saison to try out.
> 
> So this summer i plan to do at least 3 saisons.... one with farmhouse ale, one belgian and one french.
> 
> BRING ON THE HEAT!



I have plans for exactly the same thing (3 saisons, different yeasts, same grist and hops) and ordered the farmhouse PC about two weeks ago (GG). Unfortunately they were out of stock but had some ordered. Should arrive soon hopefully.


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## humulus

manticle said:


> I have plans for exactly the same thing (3 saisons, different yeasts, same grist and hops) and ordered the farmhouse PC about two weeks ago (GG). Unfortunately they were out of stock but had some ordered. Should arrive soon hopefully.


Cheers Manticle you just answered my question and saved me a fone call to G&G about the Farmhouse ale yeast!!!
im waiting too!


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## gap

humulus said:


> Cheers Manticle you just answered my question and saved me a fone call to G&G about the Farmhouse ale yeast!!!
> im waiting too!



Pat at Absolute Homebrew has this yeast on pre order at the moment. Orderss close Monday.

Regards


Graeme


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## punkin

drtomc said:


> Belgian yeast strains are distinctive for the strong and various flavor profiles the contribute to a beer. The Wyeast Belgian Saison (and no doubt the other Saison strains - I have not tried them yet) has a very distinctive profile. Buy yourself a bottle of the Dupont Saison and try!
> 
> T.




Thanks mate. Went looking in the only bottlo in town that specialises in good beers.

He has 60-80 of em i spose, but nothing as far as belgian beers or saison.
Closest was a belgian witbier. i didn't buy it as i thought it would be a different yeast again.


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## Tony

punkin said:


> Ok thanks. It's just that i have temp tolerant yeasts (dry) here that are good up to 40C and wondered it that was the only requirement or if the yeast had to be one that delivers certain flavours.



Saison has a dry, slightly tart acidic finnish with some funky kind of fruitiness.

Its not a Big WOW beer like American IPA or Belgian strong darks, its more of a subtle, funky fruity ale....... that dry and tart and makes a great summer quaffer.

Try finding it on line and order one to try. Make sure you like it first.

I had a bottle of the Prickeley Moses farmhouse ale and Saison a little while back and they were fine beers as well.

cheers


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## punkin

Thanks Tony. I thought of doing that and then i thought it would be just as cheap to order a packet of yeast on line and then i'd have a million litres of it.   


I'll see how i go in the near future. B)


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## Tony

Tony said:


> thank god G&G had some in stock and i have a pack on its way.



And on checking Ross has it back in stock......... FFS.

and from reading above... G&G is out of stock........ FFS.

Sigh...............

Oh well..... will just have to see what lucky dip turns up i guess


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## jyo

Pack of Belgian and French (and 1469, though that's for another thread) arriving this week from Gryphon...such a great style of beer for summer. :chug: 
Can't wait to have another crack at one.


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## Tony

The comments for your order are

currently out of 3726 yeast



Your order has been updated to the following status.

New status: Order Being Packed




Wooo Hoooooooo 

I so want a run with farmhouse this summer!


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## Nick JD

Tony, have you tried Ommegang's Hennepin? 

It's kinda like a Saison triple, if that makes sense.


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## drtomc

Tony said:


> I so want a run with farmhouse this summer!



Don't you think it would be rather heavy?

T.


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## Tony

Mmmmm i made a few saisons early on that were to style.... more amber and alcaholic but i just couldnt enjoy them.

I remember speaking with Trent at an early HUB meeting and he said he liked to make a Saison pale and low OG to give it a real Aussie summer drinkability..... thats where the inspiration for this recipe came from.

I really enjoyed the beer made with this recipe and i will be using it to make the same beer with the different yeasts to test what i like best...... 

cant wait 

Actually.... i may get out a bottle of starter from the freezer and get it (12 month old belgian saison vial) sterted for brewing on the 26/27th whick is the wifes working weekend


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## esssee

Tony,

The Hallertauer addition at 0 mins. Is that at flame out or dry hopped?


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## petesbrew

Cracked the grain for this up last night. Cheers for sharing, Tony.
I started up an unknown (but delicious smelling) farmhouse yeast that's been sitting in the brewfridge for a while.


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## Tanga

Tony said:


> Add a bit of Brett and you could call it Brett the funky farmer



Ha! Funny you should mention that. I was thinking of putting some in a small demi with some brett / lacto dregs. A bit late for this batch though, as she's already down to 1012. Wy.3726 is a cracker. The taste from the sight tube was promising. I think dark saisons will become a regular at my place. The mix of Saison funk and roasty biscuity malt is amazing.


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## Tony

Tanga i was thinking of doing the same thing....... make an extra 5 liters and put 4L in a small demi with some Orval dregs i kept from a bottle 

I dont know if i add the dregs at the start of ferment or mid way or at the end........ hell my saisons get down to 1.002 with a cool mash.

So im thinking at the start 

Mmmmmm may even get the dregs going in a starter and drop them in the full batch for some fun and extra funk 

My 12 month old vial of Belgian Saison yeast took off over night so it will be good to go for sure!

Gunna use some Naked Golden Oats for fun and also got some Abbey malt to try.

Ooooooooooo its Saison season  

Cheers


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## esssee

esssee said:


> Tony,
> 
> The Hallertauer addition at 0 mins. Is that at flame out or dry hopped?



I am hanging to try this one. Just a bit of clarification needed, please.


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## the_new_darren

Is salt necessary in a Saison?

tnd


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## stillscottish

the_new_darren said:


> Is salt necessary in a Saison?
> 
> tnd



No.


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## the_new_darren

Could a ssaison benefit from a salt addition?

I heard that years ago but couldnt fathom it myself but am curious from those who have brewed one

tnd


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## stillscottish

Isn't a stinky farmhouse beer with salt a Gose?


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## the_new_darren

Could you tell the difference.

Most brewers here add some salt to any beer and have heard numerous occasions of "salt" additions to Saison....to remake the stagnent water they are brewed with

tnd


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## stillscottish

Ok. Let's get serious for a minute (and I'm on the turps as well  )
I'll put a bit of salt in some brews but not in my Saisons. I've only recently started brewing them and I think I'll always have one on the go from now bcs I like a bit of funk but not too much. The salt thing has got me interested in finding out more - unless you're bullshitting - but a mate of mine brews Gose's (take a bow, Perry) and you can definitely.........


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## the_new_darren

Yeah I am bullshitting as on the juice, but I dont think it goes astray, especially if you have very soft water.

tnd


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## humulus

Tony talked to G&G they are still waiting on their Farmhouse ale too arrive get your pre order in, should arrive this week they reckon!!!! mmmmmm cant wait :icon_chickcheers:


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## punkin

Ordered the yeast and acidulated malt for this yesterday from Craftbrewer.

Sheds about 35c now at the end of brew day, but was only 26 when i went in this morning.

May have to add an elec blanket on low for the first brew.


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## Tony

humulus said:


> Tony talked to G&G they are still waiting on their Farmhouse ale too arrive get your pre order in, should arrive this week they reckon!!!! mmmmmm cant wait :icon_chickcheers:



Woo hoo...... My belgian Saison is going nuts in the starter..... cant wait to get this recipe in the fermenter again.



And folks......... the recipe threads are related to the recipe at hand. Im also interested in the salt line in a Saison but i think its best for a seperate thread!

cheers


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## petesbrew

My variation on your recipe, Tony.
A few differences due to what grain & hops I had in stock.
Cheers to Doc for the missing Aciduated Malt!

Summer Saison

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 23.00 Wort Size (L): 23.00
Total Grain (kg): 5.35
Anticipated OG: 1.047 Plato: 11.783
Anticipated EBC: 9.1
Anticipated IBU: 25.0
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
74.8 4.00 kg. BB Pale Ale Malt (2-row) Australia 1.037 5
18.7 1.00 kg. JWM Wheat Malt Australia 1.040 4
3.7 0.20 kg. CaraPilsner France 1.035 20
2.8 0.15 kg. Weyermann Acidulated Germany 1.000 5

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
35.00 g. Perle Pellet 4.00 20.9 60 min.
21.56 g. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 4.80 4.1 15 min.
28.75 g. Hallertau Hersbrucker Pellet 2.10 0.0 0 min.


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP565 Belgian Saison I


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## punkin

Good to know i can sub some ale malt, pils is down to a few kilos left till my next bulk grain order.


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## petesbrew

I know it's not ideal, compared to Wey Pils, but what do you do hey?
Annoyed that I was at Daves last week picking up a fresh yeast and didn't think about getting Saaz, which I'm out of as well.
Lucky I've got a few other noble hops to get rid of choose from in my freezer.


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## punkin

Thinking of cancelling my planned wheat beer for tommorow and brewing this instead. i was thinking of doing a 90l batch and splitting into two fermenters, one in the house at ambient with us-05 and the other heated in the shed with the 3724.

Question being would the grain/hops bill make a good ale as well?

Would dearly love an answer to this one quickly so i can get the yeast going.


----------



## punkin

Got no advice so i just went ahead and did a 90l batch this morning.

All in the fermenters now, 42 litres with a swelled nicely wyeast pack in the shed, pitched at 32C

50l on top of a nottingham yeast cake from a rye beer in the house at airconditioned ambient.


First time i've done a quadruple batch and was quite happy at how i hit most of my targets.


I'm very glad the acidultated malt was less...powerful after the boil. Tasting the malt, and indeed the first runnings just reminded me why they call beer piss :icon_vomit: 



Notso bad after the boil. :icon_cheers:


----------



## Tony

Hey Punkin

Sorry for the lack of reply.....

It will be a great beer with both yeasts!

If your not keen on the Acid malt..... you can reduce it or leave it out but it gives a great twang in this beer with the saison yeast.

cheers


----------



## punkin

The saison yeast is doing nought at this stage. The nott is going like a machine gun :icon_cheers: 

Last time i pitched on this cake it was done in 24 hours. I think i'll get the same result.

Hopefully the belgian will pick up overnight.

Appreciate the response tony.


----------



## seamad

Pitched this recipe using french3711 a week ago before going camping. Ambient steady 21.5, came back to find gladwrap looking like it had a hard time containing the beast. Gravity 1003 so figure its done. Clear as ( did use brewbrite). Sitting at 0 C presently, smelt and tasted great out of fdrmenter, gotta keg this one soon.
cheers and thanks tony


----------



## Tony

I have 2 starters in the kitchen....... one 3724 and one 3711PC, and i have 2 cubes of a split batch of Summer Saison (with 5% Golden Naked Oats) to test them out side by side with.

Gunna ferement them side by side, filter them into seperate corny kegs and have them on tap on rotation changing the Saison tap over once a week to oposing kegs to see how they compare.

Also have 2 packs of Farmhouse ale now so will be giving that a run early next year.

cheers


----------



## humulus

My Farmhouse ale arrived today!!!! Now just gotta get some time to brew and the Sydney temp isnt hot enough for a 29dg ferment in the shed!...time to look for the heat pad
Tony if i cant get pale wheat,normal wheat malt ok?
my bullshead wit#5 is chugging away happily(its one of my most popular brews!!!) :icon_cheers:


----------



## Tony

humulus said:


> Tony if i cant get pale wheat,normal wheat malt ok?
> my bullshead wit#5 is chugging away happily(its one of my most popular brews!!!) :icon_cheers:



mate i used pale malted wheat in the Saison...... the Wit gets raw (unmalted) wheat.

I cant see any reason why you couldnt use raw wheat in the saison though....... wont be shiny clear but it will have that extra tartness that comes with the raw wheat...... mmmmm YUM 

Id say if you use raw wheat..... halve the acidulated malt or you could call it canillion.

cheers


----------



## humulus

Mate have you got the mind going now!!!!!!!!!!!!! :icon_drool2:


----------



## Tony

well... they are in 

2 fermenters with 17 liters of 1.047 Summer Saison. I will top them up with a few liters when i keg them...... should get 1.042 at 19 liters. That will still give me a 5% beer!

One with 3711

One with 3724

Garage sitting at 24 to 25 deg...... and no true summer days in sight........ Oh where is the heat when you need it 

cant wait to get them in kegs side by side


----------



## Tony

Sun is out today, garage heating up to 28 

Both are off and racing.

I have a feeling 3711 will win


----------



## manticle

Finally got the farmhouse. Bloody Belgian yeast is slow - I'm having trouble pushing it much above 27 degrees and she's taken a week to get from 1047 to 1037 with very little krausen.

Patience and warm water baths for this little duck.


----------



## lespaul

brewing this little number today. just picked up the farmhouse too.
How did you ferment this Tony? start off at 20 and then ramp it up to 30 after a few days? or just get it up to a high temperature as early as possible?
anybody have any experience with the farmhouse ale yeast, as in does it create a lot of heat during ferment?
just planning the fermenting schedule, and as manticle said above might struggle to get it to the 30 degree mark.


----------



## Tony

I used the farmhouse a while a go and the beer ended up infected.... my fault for rushing things.

With the belgian 3724... just get it hot.

Its belgian ale yeasts like 3787 and the like that you start cool and ramp etc.

Saison....... just crank it!


----------



## punkin

Mine was down to 1020 yesterday, took a week and a half to drop from 1030. I have an electric blanket set on low around it. Forgot to check the temp of the brew when i tested it (i'd bulk tested a couple of finnished brews beforehand)


----------



## petesbrew

Bottled mine last night. FG=1006. Wish I wrote somewhere the OG, but I think it was near my target 1052.
Tastes very promising


----------



## lespaul

has anyone had any experience with the 3726 farmhouse at temps around 30. Couldn't find any information on it but it seems most people ferment with this yeast around mid 20's


----------



## Tony

Dude.... you would be best starting a new thread on that..... The recipe threads are maily for the recipe at hand..... not yeasts and use of ect 

Im trialing 2 different yeasts in a batch of this recipe to get a feeling for what works best...... and i will do the same with the farnhouse ale yeast after xmas

i have 2 packs of the stuff and to be honest i still havnt researched the fermentatoin temps yet 

cheers


----------



## punkin

Current Saison discussion thread here


----------



## petesbrew

First taste last night. Still undercarbed as I jumped the gun (under 2 weeks)
Crystal clear, refreshing with a slight sourness to it. Unlike anything I've ever brewed before.
Bloody awesome recipe, Tony! Cheers for sharing.


----------



## Tony

haha another happy brewer 

My 2 fermenters of Summer Saison are going well. 

The one with 3711 was done last weekend, sitting steady at 1.002

The 3724 was at 1.020. Garage has sat at about 25 to 28 deg. 

I didnt add any heat to the 3724 cause i really wanted to test the difference the yeasts makes with this recipe. I will report the findings in the other Saison discussion thread.

So the 3711 fermenter is in the fridge chilling down to filter and i will go check the other fermenter now 

cheers


----------



## punkin

A very sad xmas for me. There was a slight infection (dusty white cobweb) on my saison when i kegged it. I cooled and gassed hoping it may still be ok...

xmas morning was tipping two kegs of beer down the drain as undrinkable :icon_vomit: :blink: :blink: 


A xmas i'll never forget.


----------



## petesbrew

punkin said:


> A very sad xmas for me. There was a slight infection (dusty white cobweb) on my saison when i kegged it. I cooled and gassed hoping it may still be ok...
> 
> xmas morning was tipping two kegs of beer down the drain as undrinkable :icon_vomit: :blink: :blink:
> 
> 
> A xmas i'll never forget.


I feel your pain.
I'm considering brett infecting a framboise to try and hide some strong clovey/phenolic notes.


----------



## humulus

Tony howd you go with the Farmhouse ale yeast? what ferment temp,ive got the day off might try get 2 brews down today and the Bullshead farmhouse saison is one!! :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## Tony

Ive not used it yet....... i have a split batch running 3711 and 3724 on tap at the moment.

Soon....... might make an IPA first, then give the summer saison a run with farmhouse ale.

cheers


----------



## humulus

Ill let you now brewed the summer saison today with no chill hop adjustments,split my farmhouse(still have 3*30ml vials)pitched into a 1040wort which is now on the stir plate krausen and bubbling like mad! ready to chill tomorra arvo and pitch.
Really wanna know wot its like so i can get another pack before Wyeast makes it dissapear for a few more years.
Mate how original is that acidulated malt its like a yellow sherbert lolly every grain,lovr it
let you know how it turns out!!!! :beer:


----------



## Tony

have you had a chew on it?


----------



## humulus

yep i really like the taste!!!


----------



## DUANNE

is the acidulated malt just for flavour? im just curious as to how it affects the mash ph and how much of the lactic character comes through in the final product?
ive done a few saisons and the one thing im struggling to get right is that bit of tartness in the beer.it always seems for me atleast to have all the right sort of flavour notes coming through but tartness is always lacking.


----------



## Tony

Give it a go!

Its not like licking a sour lolly... it just adds a touch of tart and also drops the pH... which i think helps the Saison ferment out better.

cheers


----------



## DUANNE

thanks tony i will have to give it a go. it usually takes a good month to finish out so if the acidulated drops that to 3 weeks it will be good to be drinking it sooner!just thinking aloud but could i mash as usual with my usual salt additions and add the acidulated in the last 5 or ten minutes of the mash after the majority of conversion is complete so as to not affect my mash ph, sort of like what poeple do with dark malts?


----------



## doon

Just kegged my attempt at this with 3711. What a cracking beer! Can't wait till Thursday going to have a great day drinking this!


----------



## humulus

Mines in the keg for Thursday cant wait!!!


----------



## doon

It's so good! Came out quite dry with subtle clove and spice flavours perfect lawn mower beer


----------



## Tony

haha awsome work!

And yes it is great lawnmower beer..... although i need lawn boat at the moment


----------



## chunckious

Tony said:


> haha awsome work!
> 
> And yes it is great lawnmower beer..... although i need lawn boat at the moment



Make sure you load the boat with beers. Two by two........


----------



## Tony

Ahhhhh i have 2 kegs of this.... split batch with different yeasts.

Now all i need is the boat


----------



## jeffsonia

Tony,
Have been reading the posts on your Saison recipe and thought i would give it a crack as i have never brewed a Saison before and a lot of blokes have been commenting on it. I didn't follow your recipe exactly so hopefully it doesn't turn out too bad. Just brewed a 50 ltr batch of this on sunday. OG 1057. Subbed the Weyermann wheat with Joe White wheat and subbed the Goldings for Fuggles. Also used WLP568 Belgian Saison Yeast Blend, made a starter and within 2 hours she was climbing out of the flagon bottle, it's fermenting at 26 Degrees at the moment and doesn't seem like she's going to slow down any time soon. Guess i just play the waiting game now.


----------



## Tony

Sounds like a cracker!

The idea of the summer saison is to keep the alc down under 5% to make it a aussie summer quaffer..... but i recon yours will hit 7%.

If its a lawn mower beer you could call it the "Missing Toe Saison"


----------



## jeffsonia

yeah looks like she might be a sipper not a quaffer, might just wait until after the mowing"s done to have a few thirst quenchers.
I'll let you know how she goes.


----------



## Tony

Please do !!!


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery

Ive done 4 of these and they are dangerously nice. Have to wait to put the next one down - its even too hot for saision - 44C


----------



## JDW81

Tony said:


> Sounds like a cracker!
> 
> The idea of the summer saison is to keep the alc down under 5% to make it a aussie summer quaffer..... but i recon yours will hit 7%.
> 
> If its a lawn mower beer you could call it the "Missing Toe Saison"



My first attempt at a saison (fermenting at the moment) had an OG of 1060 (was aiming for 1052). I made some mods to my mash tun and my efficiency went through the roof. I think I also had a higer boil off than in previous brews too but can't be sure as I forgot to take an accurate post boil volume. I think this one will be for sippin', not lawn mowing as I'd intended. I'll recalculate for the higher numbers and try again. Early signs are very encouraging


----------



## humulus

Tony just tapped my keg of bullshead saison WOW bloody top drop SWAMBO tasted it and told me too brew another one ASAP! pity i have to work 2nite or id give it a nudge.I fermented it with the Farmhouse ale,might get some French Saison yeast and try that!
Cheers for the recipe mate keep em coming,bullshead wit should be ready to keg in a few days cant wait!
Glenn :beer:


----------



## Tony

Awsome!

I need to start work on my next creation i think. I only post up a recipe if its a cracker.


----------



## KHB

I'm drinking this at the moment. Love it. Get a lot of bitter sour fruits and Belgian funk. God it's easy to drink.


----------



## Tony

I just blew one keg yesterday and the other has one beer left in it i recon..... its very light. 

May have to make one more batch before summer is gone (if it ever shows up to start with) with farmhouse ale yeast i think.


----------



## Muscovy_333

Tony said:


> I just blew one keg yesterday and the other has one beer left in it i recon..... its very light.
> 
> May have to make one more batch before summer is gone (if it ever shows up to start with) with farmhouse ale yeast i think.




Tony, apologies to go off topic... my 3724 has slowed, almost stalled. It has been running 29-32 degrees consistently. 
The only way i could keep the temp constant was to wrap my fermenter in a woollen blanket and pop the whole lot on the heat pad. 

The base of the fermenter is covered by the woollen blanket as well. I'm trying to keep the yeast cake off the direct heat (as best i can!)

As i type i realise i am only 16 days into the fermentation. S.G. has moved from 1.036 to 1.020 today. patience required?


----------



## KHB

One thing I noticed with mine was how much quicker it fermented. Went from 1039 to 1010in 4 days being held at 30.c then down to 1008 in a week where it said would finish.


----------



## Tony

Muscovy said:


> patience required?



Yes mate patience is the key

Just keep it warm but dont overheat it.

This yeast is famous for this trait and unfortunately (and i did at first too) people pannic and try overheating it or risk infection by stiring it etc etc.

Just keep it warm in a blanket, and kick it in the corner for 2 weeks and check again.

When i use this yeast i plan 4 to 5 weeks fermentation, if its done faster its a bonus

cheers


----------



## Muscovy_333

Thankyou...I would never open it up and stir, but i was considering racking and re-pitching....Patience it is!


----------



## Tony

my 2nd keg just went dry 

Sad day at the Bulls Head Brewery.


----------



## humulus

Mine just coughed,farted and died  like everybody else just waiting for summer
Top drop with the farmhouse ale Tony!!!!


----------



## Tony

i have some farmhouse ale in a starter but its ging on a cube of Hibiscus ale...... 

Might knock one last one out for the summer and put it on some FHA.... Id love to try it in this recipe!


----------



## Dazza88

FG advice needed.

I brewed this beer (well similar) and followed the stated mash schedule, possibly hitting 62 instead of 63 and 70.5 instead of 72. I expected the FG to be around 1.003 as per Tony's recipe info. 

Pitched 23/1 @ 1.035
Reading 9/2 @1.0095 (impressed at this point - fermentation happening at a good rate for this yeast reputation)
Reading 20/2 @ 1.008 (1 point in 11 days? finished?)

Readings taken with a refractometer and adjusted with an online refract adjusting calculator (onebeer.net). It fermented at ambient 27 to 30 degrees. 


I am note sure whether it has finished or not? Is taking 11 days to move a point of gravity normal for this yeast? 


I have read the advice about patience. I am wondering if others have tracked their gravity over the course of the fermentation with this yeast and noticed similar or different? 

I will wait another week and then contemplate hitting it with a 1469 starter (rinsed yeast from previous brew) to see if i can get it down to 1.004 region... 


Recipe i brewed
-----


*Bullshead Saison altered* (Saison)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.039 (P): 9.8
Final Gravity (FG): 1.005 (P): 1.3 (NOTE: increased attenuation in brewmate settings to match Tony's expected fg)
Alcohol (ABV): 4.50 %
Colour (SRM): 5.8 (EBC): 11.4
Bitterness (IBU): 19 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)

70.18% Pilsner
12.28% Munich II
12.28% Wheat Malt
5.26% Caramunich I

0.5 g/L Magnum (12.5% Alpha) @ 80 Minutes (Boil)
0.2 g/L Magnum (12.5% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil)

Wyeast 3724 - Belgian Saison

Notes: Mash - 52 for 10 mins

63 for 45min (got 62.5)

71 for 15 min (got 70ish)

1L starter of 3724 in ambient brewroom on stirplate started 21st. 

18 L of 1.035 wort (8g Magnum @ 70 FWH and 4g in cube and nochilled at 80ish C.)


----------



## Tony

munich and caramunich........ theres your problem 

Id say its done mate.

Dont go pitching an english strain, it wont do a thing

Edit..... the other thing with low temp mashing, is that if you went a bit under 63 and your temp measurement is out by a deg or so which is not hard on myst gear we home brewers use, you could have suffered poor conversion on the low temp mash stage, meaning you got a bit more conversion over 70 deg, giving you a higher FG.... thats my feeling on it.

I recirc through a HERMS so geting the low temp mash done properly is easier than if i am just sitting it there in an esky. with temp drop etc, this could be the issue...... without knowing your system, its my best guess.

cheers


----------



## felon

I'm looking forward to making this on Wednesday with farmhouse ale. :chug:


----------



## Dazza88

Tony said:


> munich and caramunich........ theres your problem
> 
> Id say its done mate.
> 
> Dont go pitching an english strain, it wont do a thing
> 
> Edit..... the other thing with low temp mashing, is that if you went a bit under 63 and your temp measurement is out by a deg or so which is not hard on myst gear we home brewers use, you could have suffered poor conversion on the low temp mash stage, meaning you got a bit more conversion over 70 deg, giving you a higher FG.... thats my feeling on it.
> 
> I recirc through a HERMS so geting the low temp mash done properly is easier than if i am just sitting it there in an esky. with temp drop etc, this could be the issue...... without knowing your system, its my best guess.
> 
> cheers



OK, thanks for the advice mate. Will bottle it next weekend. 

I have recently moved from 19L pot biab to a 70L pot - some issues with hitting and maintaining mash temps.

EDIT: Can't remember why i went the munich, another saison clone recipe had it iirc.

Tony, would you bottle it as is or try to dry it out with some dextrose?


----------



## petesbrew

Down to the last handful of bottles of this brilliant beer. I now know what I'll be brewing every summer from now on.
Actually I'm going to use a bottle in Merc's apple & cinnamon saison muffins sometime soon.


----------



## Muscovy_333

Tony said:


> Yes mate patience is the key
> 
> Just keep it warm but dont overheat it.
> 
> This yeast is famous for this trait and unfortunately (and i did at first too) people pannic and try overheating it or risk infection by stiring it etc etc.
> 
> Just keep it warm in a blanket, and kick it in the corner for 2 weeks and check again.
> 
> When i use this yeast i plan 4 to 5 weeks fermentation, if its done faster its a bonus
> 
> cheers





My 3742 Belgian Saison got a second lease of life. F.G. down to 1.004, almost 4 weeks fermenting.....happy.

Thanks for the advice Tony.

Q1. If i bottle and condition does this yeast need high conditioning temps?

Q2. from what i have read I was thinking this style of beer would best suit medium to high carbonation as well?


----------



## Dazza88

Oh yeah, got a ginger beer kit that i may use the slurry on. one more brew before a break from brewing and it gets cooler.


----------



## Muscovy_333

Muscovy said:


> My 3742 Belgian Saison got a second lease of life. F.G. down to 1.004, almost 4 weeks fermenting.....happy.
> 
> Thanks for the advice Tony.
> 
> Q1. If i bottle and condition does this yeast need high conditioning temps?
> 
> Q2. from what i have read I was thinking this style of beer would best suit medium to high carbonation as well?





Bump for the arvo....need some advice conditioning 3724 Belgain Saison.

Can it be primed and bottled as per usual?


----------



## Muscovy_333

Muscovy said:


> My 3742 Belgian Saison got a second lease of life. F.G. down to 1.004, almost 4 weeks fermenting.....happy.
> 
> Thanks for the advice Tony.
> 
> Q1. If i bottle and condition does this yeast need high conditioning temps?
> 
> Q2. from what i have read I was thinking this style of beer would best suit medium to high carbonation as well?




And bump to the evening..


----------



## bullsneck

I'm hypothesising that as long as you condition it within the yeasts temperature range, it will carbonate.


----------



## Muscovy_333

Thinking the same.
This yeast stalled below 28 degrees C though.

It is going to get tucked away for a while, so hopefully time will suffice.
I am tempted to pitch another yeast for conditioning, so that i get my carbonation for sure.....just waiting for someone to say, she'll be right!


----------



## Tony

DazDog said:


> Tony, would you bottle it as is or try to dry it out with some dextrose?



Now just have a think about this for a second. 

If the yeast would not ferment the residual sugars in the brew..... how is dextrose going to dry it out?

All it will do is ferment the destrose, create more alcahol and you will still have the unfirmentable sugars you started with.

Dont make butters get the kitten out again 



Muscovy said:


> My 3742 Belgian Saison got a second lease of life. F.G. down to 1.004, almost 4 weeks fermenting.....happy.
> 
> Thanks for the advice Tony.
> 
> Q1. If i bottle and condition does this yeast need high conditioning temps?
> 
> Q2. from what i have read I was thinking this style of beer would best suit medium to high carbonation as well?






Muscovy said:


> just waiting for someone to say, she'll be right!



It will be fine. Just leave it in the garage or somewhere warm for a week or 2 and it will carb.

and yes... a tad more carb is always nice in a saison.

What is it with adding dex and low attenuating english yeast folks???????????

Be patient and let it ride....... you just need to accept that this yeast is different and a lot slower than most.

cheers


----------



## Dazza88

should i have asked wil dextrose add alc and balance the higher fg, or should i just put my kitten in a witness protection program?

appreciate your feedback.

i bottled half and added dex and dry hopped the other half.


----------



## Muscovy_333

Thankyou again Sensai Miyagi.
Or should i say Belgian Yoda!


----------



## Tony

DazDog said:


> should i have asked wil dextrose add alc and balance the higher fg, or should i just put my kitten in a witness protection program?
> 
> appreciate your feedback.
> 
> i bottled half and added dex and dry hopped the other half.



Mmmmm i cant see adding alcahol ballancing the beer. BUt to be honest i dont think it will be out of ballance.

If it stopped at 1.018 i would wory but id say its fine.

I like your thinking on splitting the batch, at least you will get to taste the difference and then brew acordingly to what you prefer in the future..... its the best way!

And yeah..... hide the kitten, i hate cats 

cheers


----------



## Mikedub

Finally warmed up a bit so am going to brew this tomorrow, pils/munich/wheat, 
2 questions, 
would bittering with Chinook be outrageously out of style?
Also, is there any place in this beer for melanoidin? 

Yeast Wlp 565
cheers


----------



## Tony

Saison is a fairly open style.

But the recipe i posted wanst a randon pick of ingredients. It was put together to give a certain result in the glass and using chinook and melanoiden is not going to make the beer that a lot of people are enjoying.

Experiemnt away.... not a problem there but using chinook and malanoiden is just going to give you a train wreck in a glass IMO.


----------



## Mikedub

Tony said:


> Experiemnt away.... not a problem there but using chinook and malanoiden is just going to give you a train wreck in a glass IMO.



yeah, pretty sure I don't want that, thanks for your honesty


----------



## felon

Just had a crack at your recipe in the database. Used Farmhouse ale yeast. What a beast. went from 1.040 to 1.010 in 48 hrs at 30 deg. Has a lot of spicy tart banana flavour evident out of hydro sample. Should be interesting. Since I no chilled i will be dry hopping the Mittlefruh.


----------



## Tony

i just made a saison..... different recipe, but will be using the farmhouse ale too... cant wait!


----------



## humulus

Just cracked my grain for another go!!!with the Farmhouse!
The last keg didnt last long enough(just hope this hot weather lasts)


----------



## alfadog

I have been waiting for it to get warm enough in Brisbane to try this beer!


----------



## felon

Thanks Tony

I tried my first attempt at your recipe tonight. I used farmhouse ale yeast, no chilled and dry hopped the hallertau mittlefruh. Very nice. Fermented at 30 deg (probably a bit hot). It finished at 1.004 sg and is very dry. I get a dry tongue tingle from it. Is this from the acidulated malt? It has a very peppery/banana flavour. The SWMBO and sister-in-law love it. At this stage it is easy drinking but needs a bit more time to mellow in my opinion (or taste buds to recover after night shift). I might run the next cube a bit cooler or try different yeast.


----------



## Tony

yeah usually a week has a saison improving. They lose that "raw" fruity taste and it all comes together

have a shot at the belgian saison yeast 3724 and join the confusion and frustration 

Or just pitch and forget it for 6 weeks 

cheers


----------



## felon

I'm sure it will settle over a week. I can see it's potential. Just thought I would report back on my first impressions.


----------



## felon

Wow. What a difference a few days has made. Flavour has rounded off nicely. 

Picked up some WLP568 Belgian Style Saison Ale Yeast Blend from the LHBS to try. Does anyone know what temp to ferment this at?


----------



## globe

Tony,im thinking of making this one during spring? im not sure if it will be hot enough and also yeast could get stuck with the cool of night. do you think i should wait 
until summer?



RecipeDB said:


> This is the discussion topic for the recipe: BullsHead Summer Saison


----------



## pk.sax

I just did a 1034ish.. .fermented out in 5ish days @ ~26-28C ambient. Throw a heat belt around that sucker if you will...


----------



## Tony

practicalfool said:


> I just did a 1034ish.. .fermented out in 5ish days @ ~26-28C ambient. Throw a heat belt around that sucker if you will...



yep......... cheap single bed electric blanket works a treat. I have been using one for years.

If you are fermenting cooler use french saison but it wont as fruity.

In drinking a Saison i made ages ago with FHA and OMG......... to die for.


----------



## Muscovy_333

I am nagging on a 3724 Saison from last summer and it has developed into a ripper as well.
Saison season is starting again...already!


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Once CB have the yeast in, I'm going to redeem a voucher and grab 3724 and have a crack.

Tony, apparent attenuation on brewmate, what should I set it on?

I've been wanting to do this for so long, now I get the opportunity.

Should get a black sheet and park the car outside, I reckon that'll do it! My garden shed is in the shade.

Goomba


----------



## Wolfman

I use a heat belt with thermo control. My saisons come out a treat!


----------



## petesbrew

Got this one planned again for this december. 
Got great comments from mates on this like "Now i'd pay for this beer".


----------



## lukasfab

would goldings be ok to use instead of east kent goldings?


----------



## lukasfab

what would be a comparable commercial beer to this?


----------



## Tony

Cant say there would be one....... i made it up, but any saison will exhibit the qualities


----------



## tazman1967

I drank my last bottle last night... do yourself a favor people, put some away for 6 months. Saisons age so well.. :icon_drool2: 
I subbed Styrians in for EKG and used Wyeast 3711PC French Saison. Still very yummy, awaiting the next batch to brew.
Cheers
Peter


----------



## rosswill

Tony said:


> my 2nd keg just went dry
> 
> Sad day at the Bulls Head Brewery.


Tony,

You did a side by side using Belgian and French yeast. What is your comparison of the two in the finished beer?

Regards


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## Tony

The belgian yeast was very fruity and floral. The french was quite tart and just tasted of lemon.

So i blended the 2 batches in a keg and it was the best saison i have ever made !!!

the flavor complexity was awesome.

I actually hopped that batch with B Saaz flowers and put 20g of flowers in each 17L cube...... :icon_drool2:


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## manticle

Temple saison uses 3 different yeasts - 3711 and T-58 feature from memory (t-58 is used to finish). Can't remember the third.

Slightly OT but I added some biere de garde yeast to a tripel I made with ardennes yeast recently, based on the above idea.

All tasting great except I will never again add large quantities of raw sugar to a pale Belgian beer - dex, plain white or pale candi only.

Looking forward to cranking out a few saisons in Summer again.


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## Tony

mmm me too.

I still have a cube of my Hibiscus citra ale i made last year waiting for some farmhouse ale yeast!


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## humulus

Well Tony im trying a modified version,only due to my stuff up.....instead of using pilsner malt i grabbed munich(not to self if putting malt in different bags friggen label them clearly!!!) so its mashing away now,got Farmhouse ale yeast built up ready to pitch(gunna cube and pitch later this week),
Do you think i should alter/increase the hop additions or leave as!!! will keep you informed on how the hybrid/marzen/saison turns out!!
:beer: cheers Glenn


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## doon

Just put one in the fermenter with 3711 bugger me this yeast goes off


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## Tony

I made one earlier this year and used vienna malt as the base and it was awsome.

It should be fine mate....... let us know how it goes!


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## geneabovill

Done... OG 1.038, FG 1.007 after five weeks. Fermented at 22 for first two weeks, ramped to 26 for two weeks, then 28 to finish. 

3726 Farmhouse did the work for me. Delicious balance of bubblegum and pepper, works well with super high carbonation. 

Bloody refreshing drop. Nom nom nom.


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## Dan Pratt

geneabovill said:


> Done... OG 1.038, FG 1.007 after five weeks. Fermented at 22 for first two weeks, ramped to 26 for two weeks, then 28 to finish.
> 
> 3726 Farmhouse did the work for me. Delicious balance of bubblegum and pepper, works well with super high carbonation.
> 
> Bloody refreshing drop. Nom nom nom.



I checked out your blog and the rig looks good. Sounds like your getting more brews done than me, I'm still waiting for my BM from the Marks...lol should be in on Monday....then I can brew again.


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## petesbrew

Grain cracked and ready for a 40L batch on monday night. Bring it on! 
One issue is I don't have any styrian or hallertau, so I'll be winging it with what's in the freezer.
Possible substitutions may be nelson sauvin, perle flowers or boadicea.... or play it safe and go summer saaz all the way.


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## bullsneck

What sort of water profile do you shoot for Tony?


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## Tony

Faily clean and soft. You dont want any hard harsh stuff in there.

I usually use a bit of CaCl in the mash to avoid sulphates and keep the low bitterness smooth and soft. Calcium Chloride will accentuate a bit of sweetness which wont hurt in an acidic dry beer.

But if you have good clean soft tap water... just use it as is!

cheers


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## bullsneck

Tony said:


> Faily clean and soft. You dont want any hard harsh stuff in there.
> 
> I usually use a bit of CaCl in the mash to avoid sulphates and keep the low bitterness smooth and soft. Calcium Chloride will accentuate a bit of sweetness which wont hurt in an acidic dry beer.
> 
> But if you have good clean soft tap water... just use it as is!
> 
> cheers



I'm going for this...





Thoughts?


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## manticle

What are the epsom salts for?


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## bullsneck

Whoops. They were left over from the last profile.


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## Tony

That doesn't look like it takes the minerals that are already in your water into account.

I got a water report from my local council and enter that as my base water into Promash, adjusting from there.

Getting a bit off topic here but another thing to do is split it between the mash and the sparge. Make sure you adjust your sparge water as well. When you sparge the pH rises as the sugars are washed out.


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## petesbrew

Just kegged the first fermenter of a double batch. OG=1040, FG=1002!


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## petesbrew

Had a couple of schooners yesterday. Fantastic. Bottled the second batch on saturday night.

Great recipe, Tony. You're a legend for sharing it!


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## Tony

your welcome


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## hwall95

Think I might give this ago once my current less session saison has finished brewing away. Will be perfect time too, shall be a nice warm QLD summer!

Might end up being my first AG beer, but seems like it should be a pretty straight forward with a mash at 63 then mashout&sparge. Might buy some saaz specially for it, otherwise will just use ekg and fuggle that I have on hand to give it a interesting twist.

Cheers for the recipe!


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## welly2

What happened to this recipe? I can't find it for love nor money on the recipe DB.


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## DJ_L3ThAL

Pm me your email I've got it as a Beersmith file


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## Chridech

2 weeks into the ferment for my first Saison. I've used Tony's recipe but souped it up to OG 1056. I'm a glutton for punishment so I've used WY3724 as per Tony's recommendation. Got a healthy pitch after doing a 2 step starter and oxygenated 1l/min pure O2 for 90 seconds (should be about 10ppm). Pitched at 22c and ramped to 26 ambient within 48 hrs. Good Krausen at 24hrs but was slowing at day 6. Unfortunately the weather cooled and I've found it hard to get above 26C. At day 10 it was still showing signs of activity but very slow. Took a gravity reading and it was 1032. The fermenting fridge was finally freed up and I've put the Saison in and ramped to 30C with the help of a heat band in the fridge. More activity at 30C. Today (day 14) it is at 1027 and still going. WY3724 hasn't stalled on me but it sure takes patience. Was out for dinner last night and managed to find a La Sirene Saison - nice drop. If the taste I had today from the hydrometer tube is anything to go by hopefully my brew is still on track.


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