# High Alcohol Beer



## Gronko (18/9/09)

G'day fellow brewers

Ok so I'm new to posting here but have been lurking and searching up info for a while

I've decided to ask a question that's prolly been asked before but hey I gotta start somewhere

My current favourite off the shelf beer is Coopers Sparkling ale.

My first attempts at brewing in order are Coopers lager (came with the kit)
#2- Sparkling ale but not to Coopers recipe. Only a can of goo and a kilo of dex/dry malt mix
#3- Sparkling ale to Coopers recipe http://www.coopers.com.au/homebrew/makeBee...d=5&bid=119
And #4- Heritage Lager used in this recipe http://www.coopers.com.au/homebrew/makeBee...d=7&bid=115

I like strong malty beers with high alcohol content

Any recommendations from others here who have similar tastes to me?

I'd prefer to keep using kits though as I'm not interested in mucking around with separate ingredients... just yet


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## Bribie G (18/9/09)

Try a 'toucan' brew with 2 cans of Coopers Lager and a kilo of dex, just use the kit yeast but only use one packet of yeast or you may get it frothing through the airlock. Ferment at under 20 degrees and you will end up with a nice malty brew. 
If you like a really strongly flavoured beer, one I make a few times a year is:

2 cans Coopers Stout
1kg LDME
1kg dex

Nottingham Ale yeast
a sprinkling of hop pellets (any UK style, about 20g) into the fermenter after about 4 days.

9% or so alcohol by volume, if you enjoy a strong stout.

:icon_cheers:


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## Fourstar (18/9/09)

As bribie pointed out, a decent high alc beer can be made with a toucan. go how hopped cans if you are after a sparkling style beer. maybe 2 cans of blonde or 1 of blonde and 1 sparkling/pale?!?

Add a can of LME and 500g of Dex~, ferment low temp to keep fusels at bay. I'd choose US05 x 2 packets to be sure and a decent dose of flamoeout hops. Much like bribies but a light coloured ale high in alc. around 6-7%

Cheers!


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## inertiadrz400e (19/9/09)

Hopefully im not hijacking this thread with my first ever post, but i have done a couple of brews now and am going to make up a newcastle brown soon. I want to increase the percentage of this ale. I have a Brewcraft Premium kit which includes 1kg of Kit converter 72. I have sussed out that i need to add more dextrose to the mix to achieve a higher percentage but the Kit converter pack says "do not add suagr or dextrose".

So is this true? Or can i add maybe 250-500g of dextrose to up the percentage?

Apoligies now if this is a silly question!


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## mwd (19/9/09)

Course you can add Dextrose no problem.

In a Brown Ale I would use Raw Sugar or Brown Sugar or Golden Syrup to add a bit of extra flavour.

Need to do a calculation on how much to add to get to required strength 

brewing calculator


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## Pennywise (19/9/09)

inertiadrz400e said:


> Hopefully im not hijacking this thread with my first ever post, but i have done a couple of brews now and am going to make up a newcastle brown soon. I want to increase the percentage of this ale. I have a Brewcraft Premium kit which includes 1kg of Kit converter 72. I have sussed out that i need to add more dextrose to the mix to achieve a higher percentage but the Kit converter pack says "do not add suagr or dextrose".
> 
> So is this true? Or can i add maybe 250-500g of dextrose to up the percentage?
> 
> Apoligies now if this is a silly question!




You can add whatever you like mate, I personally wouldn't take much that Brewcraft say in. They just suggest not adding anything else because it won't turn out exactly how they intended, saying that 500 of dextrose wont be all that noticable in that kit converter, it'll pretty much just up the acl. That kit converter has a fair wack of un-fermentables if my memory serves me.

Welcome to the forums to both of you


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## Gronko (19/9/09)

Hey thanks for the great info everyone! Really appreciate your input :beer:

I reckon to achieve the results I'm after it looks like 2 cans of goo is the base for the mix. 

I'm not a fan of stout, although I have drunk quite a bit of it, I prefer strong beer.

I try to limit myself to a cuppla stubbies a day and really like the taste of strong malty beers. Couldn't drink a lot of 'em in a session though. I'll leave that to the plain old standard bitters and draughts.

The smell from the airlock on my "Light German bock" brew is the best I've had so far and makes me drool !

If all goes well I reckon this'll be the best beer I've brewed so far. A bit more expensive than a regular beer, but its still only 75 cents a stubby so can't complain about that

Thanks all for your input


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## manticle (19/9/09)

In a nutshell:

Sugar ferments into alcohol.

Therefore theoretically the more sugar - the higher the alcohol.

HOWEVER:

1. The more simple sugar, the drier and thinner the resulting brew.
2. The higher the alcohol content during ferment, theharder the yeast have to work and eventually due to the toxic environment they will die. While alcohol is a byproduct of yeast it can also kill them. You can get around this in various ways but if you want a tasty high alcohol brew you need to read up on proper yeast treatment.
3. You can add ingredients to balance the low bodied/dry effect of simple sugars - either partially fermentable ingredients like malt (provides alcohol, body and flavour as well as sweeteness) or non fermentable ingredients like maltodextrin (alcohol and body only).
4. There are some schools of thought who believe that overuse of simple sugars in the brew can lead to bad flavours such as cidery and contribute to hangovers.

Like all things - making a good beer is about balancing the ingredients that are right for you. You need to balance high alcohol with full bodied and flavoursome. Likewise you need to balance strong malt flavours with dryness and bitterness. It's easy to make high alcohol beer but not as simple to make high alcohol tasty beer.

The other thing you can do is freeze it and throw away the ice. Water freezes before alcohol so you can concentrate your brew this way (obviously you get less volume). I'm assuming you know about that process if you're making a bock?


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## Gronko (19/9/09)

manticle said:


> Therefore theoretically the more sugar - the higher the alcohol.
> 
> HOWEVER:
> 
> ...



Awesome information. I just learned something very valuable. I didn't know about alcohol killing yeast and that would explain why I've had trouble with my Sparkling ale brews not reaching a FG lower than about 1016 before airlock bubbling completely ceases.





manticle said:


> The other thing you can do is freeze it and throw away the ice. Water freezes before alcohol so you can concentrate your brew this way (obviously you get less volume).
> * I'm assuming you know about that process if you're making a bock?*


Nope I have pretty much zero idea as I'm new to all this. I just followed the recipes on the Coopers website. Totally NFI what I'm doing, but slowly learning as I go.

That's why I find this place such a great resource. Thanks again


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## manticle (19/9/09)

The process I was talking about is used for eisbock which is a lovely strong, dark lager made so by the method I mentioned.


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## hoohaaman (19/9/09)

For god sake manticle don't tell people bout eisbock


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## manticle (19/9/09)

Sorry. I meant 'look at my shoes they are made from shiny leather and have buckles'.

Beer can only be made high in abv by adding 8 kg of csr plain white sugar.


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## mwd (19/9/09)

1.016 FG is fairly normal for a K&K beer using BE2 not restricted by alcohol content. 

Should have no real problem getting to 9%ABV using standard ale yeasts and a small addition of sugars. :beerbang: if that's what you want. :unsure:


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## manticle (19/9/09)

Gronko said:


> Awesome information. I just learned something very valuable. I didn't know about alcohol killing yeast and that would explain why I've had trouble with my Sparkling ale brews not reaching a FG lower than about 1016 before airlock bubbling completely ceases.



That may be due to other factors as well though - as mentioned be2 contains some unfermentable sugars. 1016 is not so crazy. Also airlock bubbling cessation does not necessarily equate to a finished ferment.

Beer can reach up to around 20+% abv with the right yeast and the right treatment. It can't really go much beyond that (neither can wine) due to the yeast being unable to function in that environment. The highest I've heard of is around 29%.

One thing you can do is to feed the yeast gradually:

eg. allow it to ferment until high krausen has passed, then feed the beer more simple sugar. As mentioned simple sugar will dry it out and make it thin but if you start with a malty high gravity brew you can hit a good balance. Too malty will lead to a lot of unfermented sugar in the brew which can be cloying so you can balance it with simple sugars. This is what happens with a lot of Belgian beers.


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## buttersd70 (19/9/09)

One of the limiting factors for attenuation in kits/extracts is the low levels of nutrition available to the yeast. Extracts are low in nutrients, particularly FAN (free amino nitrogen). This is one of the main reasons why extracts/kits tend to finish higher than grain. So yeast health and correct pitching rates become paramount.


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## Ivan Other One (20/9/09)

Kegged this four days ago,

1 x can Coopers Draught,
1kg dextrose,
500g LDME
250g Dry corn syrup
12g cascade @ 5mins,

having quite a bit of fermentables in this brew, am thinking it may turn out at about 5.5 to 6% :unsure: 

Have not tried it yet but will let you know of the results.


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## mfdu (20/9/09)

i just used the fermentis t-58 belgian ale yeast. it's a sick mo-fo that can go up to 11.5%. it'd easily do a 9% india pale ale.
i underutilised it on a honey ale (5%). i didnt know it go make such a strong beer - only grabbed it because i'd heard it had the banana and clove characteristics that i thought could be cool. 
the honey ale has come out amazing, straight of of the fermenter and i look forward to tasting it after three wweeks in the bottle.
you'd need some serious hoppage if you want to mask the overtones of the yeast, but i'd rather try to work with it.



*edit* me spell-thing not good worky


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## Gronko (20/9/09)

Some really good advice here.

I live here http://members.dcsi.net.au/gronk62/gronks_...f/My_Joint.html which is about 100km east of Melbourne.
The only brewing supplies I have near me is about 8km away .. and he doesn't carry much in the way of fancy yeasts etc so I can really only access basic kit ingredients.

The next closest brew supplies does have supplies of fancy yeasts etc... but that's in Narre Warren which is a 160km round trip and I rarely go there.

Anyway I did a hydrometer test on my lager last night. OG was 1060 and its now 1018
The bubbling has slowed to a crawl compared to the first 4 days and my guess is it won't get much lower than about 1016 by the end of this week.

Smells and tastes sensational at the moment. I can hardly wait to drink this one, but I know I've got a loooong wait ahead of me 

Thanks all


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## manticle (20/9/09)

Gronko said:


> Some really good advice here.
> 
> I live here http://members.dcsi.net.au/gronk62/gronks_...f/My_Joint.html which is about 100km east of Melbourne.
> The only brewing supplies I have near me is about 8km away .. and he doesn't carry much in the way of fancy yeasts etc so I can really only access basic kit ingredients.
> ...



Grain and grape deliver - cost of postage is the cost of delivery. I order online from them reasonably often and my packages are usually 10-20 kg. I'm not a wealthy man. If you want to add hops etc to your kits or use some different yeasts, you'll find the service good and the rates reasonable.


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## mfdu (21/9/09)

i'm only a 3km round-trip from grape and grain, so maybe i'm biased. 
but yeah, do an order from G&G. 
stock up on t-58, s-04 (or nottingham) yeasties, hops - get some american hops and some english hops (i'm trying columbus fo the first time, on their recommendation - mmmm yummy hops). maybe some tins of specialty malt extract (wheat, pale, caramalt).
with summer coming if you're planning on doing lotsa wheat beers, maybe grab some bittter orange peel too - add with 20grams coriander to do a yummy hoegarden-ish batch.
that way, you can survive week to week on coopers lager cans, saunders liquid malt extract and basic sugaz from the supermarket!
matter of fact, i think i'll nip over there tonight to pick up some more supplies. hopefully they have nottingham back in stock?!


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## komodo (24/9/09)

G&G, Country Brewer and Craftbrewer I've ordered by post in the past which has been fantastic. Goods arrived fast. Contact via email (and phone) was fantastic and thorough. 
You're in a beautiful part of the world down there


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## bcp (24/9/09)

mfdu said:


> i just used the fermentis t-58 belgian ale yeast. it's a sick mo-fo that can go up to 11.5%. it'd easily do a 9% india pale ale.
> i underutilised it on a honey ale (5%). i didnt know it go make such a strong beer - only grabbed it because i'd heard it had the banana and clove characteristics that i thought could be cool.
> the honey ale has come out amazing, straight of of the fermenter and i look forward to tasting it after three wweeks in the bottle.
> you'd need some serious hoppage if you want to mask the overtones of the yeast, but i'd rather try to work with it.
> ...


One of my ultimate goals is to make a Piraat, which i think uses that yeast. Piraat for me is the best beer i've ever tasted, from first taste through to aftertaste. I was back in the same country a year later, and went back to the same place, thinking it couldn't have been as good as i thought... but it was! 

I think it comes in at 10-11%. Where'd you get the t-58? Is it readily available?


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## Gronko (24/9/09)

Komodo said:


> You're in a beautiful part of the world down there



Yes I appreciate it MUCH more now than I did when I was growing up here. I never get tired of looking at the scenery now  

Thanks all for your advice. I checked the prices on the the grain and grape website and found most of the stuff I buy locally is a bit cheaper anyway.

Just gotta convince the owner to stock some more fancy yeasts etc.

I think I'm gunna stick with this http://www.coopers.com.au/homebrew/makeBee...d=7&bid=115 brew as it smells fantastic through the airlock, and last nights taste test after the gravity reading (1017) had me drooling. 
THE very best brew I've made so far!

Pity it has to sit in the bottle for 12 weeks  

Cheers all


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## mfdu (25/9/09)

the t-58 elgian ale yeast was from G&G. as i said, i picked it up not realising its full potential. next time i use it i'll be aiming for something a bit more full-on than a 4.5% honey ale!!!


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