# Cleaning After Brewing Any Tips ?



## Smoop (23/8/12)

OK with some help from you guys I have created my first brew - Coopers Pale Ale

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=66744

As with everything homebrew I have found nothing that fully explains to me what and how to clean after my brew. I am sure there is something out there and I am sure it is easy as piss to do but I am the type of guy who likes to get things right the first time and know why I got it right. 

Firstly I believe if I had some Starsan I would have not a problem in the world, I would just clean out my brewer with some of the cleaning agent in a spray bottle I got from the homebrew shop with my starter kit and rinsed it (Which I have done) And then put a few ml of starsan in my brewer and fill it up and chuck everything in until I am about to brew again.

Unfortunately the no rinse sanitizer I got in my kit needs 30ml per litre of water and is a 250ml bottle which is already half empty. 

What should I do, how should I do it ?

I have used the search function on this forum which does not turn up much in the way of a step by step guide, but lots of people using chemicals like bleach and other nasty sounding shit that I would not like anywhere near my beer until I know what the chemical is and what it does and what it does to you 10 years from now after being injested for so long.

So yeah, should my first thing on the list be to go to my brew shop and get some starsan ? 

My brewshop owner is quite happy to talk to me for an hour about brew methods and such but I feel kind of ripped off after actually asking him how long the cleaning products in the kit would last and he told me it would last me 15 brews easily.

Woah, this post is a little longer than I expected.

Is there a step by step guide to cleaning one of those starter kits basically everyone starts with anywhere on the internet ?


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## bum (23/8/12)

Smoop said:


> until I know what the chemical is and what it does and what it does to you 10 years from now after being injested for so long.


Have you ever considered that alcohol might not be for you? :unsure: 

Just wash the bloody thing. Knock the lumps off without scratching it. Soak it in bleach/sodium percarbonate/nappisan/whatever your LHBS sold you. Rinse it out. Sanitise it. Put more beer in it. Those are the steps. I find it hard to believe you cannot find information about this.


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## glenwal (23/8/12)

cleaning and sanitising are two completely different things.


You should not be cleaning with no rinse sanitiser, you should be sanitising things with the sanitiser.


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## QldKev (23/8/12)

Cleaning, Napisan / sodium percarbonate. Get it perfectly clean, and don't be afraid to soak still in it for a while. Don't scratch anything with hard brushes etc. I leave all my no-chill cubes full of it until next use. Cleaning is the number one thing to get perfect.

Next sanitising. Use the stuff you have for now, but only make up 1L not heaps. Order some Starsan, this stuff makes sanatising easy. A bottle will last years.


QldKev


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## Smoop (23/8/12)

Oh look, 3 posts all saying 3 different things. That does not confuse me one bit. 

OK,
ignore post 1, 8000 + member treating me like im a ******* idiot. (Trust me, these questions sound stupid to me too. But not having a person here to show me the steps of doing my first full brew cycle I am just worried that I am going to **** something up. If my questions in the what I consider to be the newbie section are just too retarded for your awesomeness to answer, Don't ******* answer them.)

Thanks post 2, I do know what the difference between cleaning and sanitizing is.

Thanks Qldkev, Just the answer I needed.

Can you tell me any ratios of nappysan to water ? 
Does it leave any residue ? 
Do I need to be careful using it in any way for a food product (beer) ?
Do I just soak all my disassembled parts in there and maybe just wash them with a cloth then leave them to soak ?
Anything else useful I should know ?


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## tricache (23/8/12)

I use a Brigalow cleaning agent (probably just repackaged Napisan) and I use 25g to 5L and it does the job fine.

I just rinse afterwards and no problem


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## bum (23/8/12)

Smoop said:


> Can you tell me any ratios of nappysan to water ?


Read the frigging label, ffs.



Smoop said:


> Does it leave any residue ?


Not if you rinse it off as instructed.



Smoop said:


> Do I need to be careful using it in any way for a food product (beer) ?


Not if you rinse it off as instructed.



Smoop said:


> Anything else useful I should know ?


Use it. Rinse it off as instructed. Stop acting like a "******* idiot".


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## Smoop (23/8/12)

tricache said:


> I use a Brigalow cleaning agent (probably just repackaged Napisan) and I use 25g to 5L and it does the job fine.
> 
> I just rinse afterwards and no problem



Thanks Tricache, much appreciated.


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## Nick JD (23/8/12)

I rinse the yeast trub out of the fermenter (20L jerrycan) and then fill the bugger up with warm water. 

In goes 1 cap of napisan, on goes the lid, lay it down sideways. Next day, flip it over.

Few days later I take it out the back and open the tap. When empty it gets rinsed 3 times with cold water, dried and the lid popped back on loose.

Starsan when about to be refilled. 

No "cleaning" needed. Let the chemicals do your cleaning.


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## Smoop (23/8/12)

bum said:


> Read the frigging label, ffs.
> 
> 
> Not if you rinse it off as instructed.
> ...




Yeah, let it go. Go to another thread. I do not want or need your condescending bullshit here.


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## WarmBeer (23/8/12)

Smoop said:


> ignore post 1, 8000 + member treating me like im a ******* idiot.


I actualolled at that.

Don't worry, happens a lot, he's a toasted marshmallow.


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## Smoop (23/8/12)

Nick JD said:


> I rinse the yeast trub out of the fermenter (20L jerrycan) and then fill the bugger up with warm water.
> 
> In goes 1 cap of napisan, on goes the lid, lay it down sideways. Next day, flip it over.
> 
> ...







Awesome, thank you for the steps, measurements and method. Just what I needed. Thank you.


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## bum (23/8/12)

Read it again, mate.

The steps are:
- get the solids out
- soak it in your chosen cleaning agent
- rinse it
- sanitise it
- dirty it again

You're looking for some complicated answer that is entirely unnecessary and taking it personally when it isn't offered.


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## QldKev (23/8/12)

Smoop said:


> Oh look, 3 posts all saying 3 different things. That does not confuse me one bit.
> 
> OK,
> ignore post 1, 8000 + member treating me like im a ******* idiot. (Trust me, these questions sound stupid to me too. But not having a person here to show me the steps of doing my first full brew cycle I am just worried that I am going to **** something up. If my questions in the what I consider to be the newbie section are just to retarded for your awesomeness to answer, Don't ******* answer them.)
> ...



Can you tell me any ratios of nappysan to water ? 
I use 1 cupful napisan to 1 fermenter full of water. Throw anyairlocks or other items you want clean in there too. Ensure the napisan is fragrance free. I use the Aldi stuff as it is half the cost and works perfect (not sure how well it does in the laundry) 

Does it leave any residue ? 
It does feel slightly slimly after a soak. I just give it a good hose out and a quick wipe with a soft sponge (the Aldi non scratch ones) (no not a plug for Aldi)
The cubes I can't get inside, so they are just hosed out prior to sanatising.

Do I need to be careful using it in any way for a food product (beer) ?
Just make sure you rinse the napisan properly prior to sanatising.

Anything else useful I should know ?
Just that Napisan is basically sodium percarbonate with a couple of other bits thrown in. Ensure 100% that is is fragrance free before use. 
Remember that you cannot sanatise dirty equipment. 

QldKev


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## Smoop (23/8/12)

Just looked in the laundry cupboard and found some "Vanish Napisan Plus" every day soaker.

Is this the stuff ? Or do I need the original formula or something ?


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## bum (23/8/12)

Not fragrance free.

Some will say it matters. Other will not.


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## Smoop (23/8/12)

Don't see anywhere on it that states it has a fragrance.


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## bum (23/8/12)

GOD ****


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## Nick JD (23/8/12)

bum said:


> GOD ****



On it early Bum...


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## Smoop (23/8/12)

bum said:


> GOD ****




Am I supposed to be a Napisan expert as well ?

P.S. What part of I do not want any help from you do you not understand ?


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## bum (23/8/12)

YOU WILL GET MY HELP WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT!

Use that thing in the middle of your face. Put it right in the tub/ Does it smell kinda nice?


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## bum (23/8/12)

Nick JD said:


> On it early Bum...


Perhaps you could repeat and get thanked for it?


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## tricache (23/8/12)

bum said:


> YOU WILL GET MY HELP WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT!



:lol:


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## JDW81 (23/8/12)

Smoop said:


> Yeah, let it go. Go to another thread. I do not want or need your condescending bullshit here.



I wouldn't worry too much if someone has a dig at you here, its par for the course. I've copped some cracking sprays from people for not searching or asking a 'stupid' question. 

Napisan and a soft cloth for cleaning, no rinse sanitiser (starsan, defender etc) for sanitisation. Stick to the instructions on the bottle of whatever you use as they're all slightly different.

It's a simple process, but a very important one. Don't be tempted to cut corners. Do it right and you'll have years of infection free brewing. 

JD


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## bum (23/8/12)

JDW81 said:


> I wouldn't worry too much if someone has a dig at you here,


Good advice for when it actually happens.


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## Smoop (23/8/12)

JDW81 said:


> I wouldn't worry too much if someone has a dig at you here, its par for the course. I've copped some cracking sprays from people for not searching or asking a 'stupid' question.
> 
> Napisan and a soft cloth for cleaning, no rinse sanitiser (starsan, defender etc) for sanitisation. Stick to the instructions on the bottle of whatever you use as they're all slightly different.
> 
> ...




See what I highlighted in your quote. This is exactly the reason for my 300 questions on something everyone around here thinks is of no importance as to just throw shit in and then rinse it out.

I am new to brewing. I want to brew correctly, I do not want to brew shit beer. Not having someone I know who brews leaves me at a very distinct disadvantage. And all the information I have found is exactly like Bum's advice, Piss in it, wipe it out, spit in it and your ready. I want to know how to do it properly and more importantly WHY.

Thanks for your reply JD!!


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## JDW81 (23/8/12)

Smoop said:


> Just looked in the laundry cupboard and found some "Vanish Napisan Plus" every day soaker.
> 
> Is this the stuff ? Or do I need the original formula or something ?



I've used fragrance free and the smelly stuff (just depends on what Mrs JD has stocked the cupboard with), always ended up with the same result, clean brew gear. Rinse till you can't smell cleaning product and you'll be sweet as bro.


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## Jay Cee (23/8/12)

Man, you worry too much.


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## WarmBeer (23/8/12)

Hope this helps - link




Smoop said:


> Not having someone I know who brews leaves me at a very distinct disadvantage.



Edit: Let us know where you are, there might be somebody local wiling to either have you come round a see a brewing demo, or give you advice in person. Worst case scenario, you'll get to drink some good beer...


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## Smoop (23/8/12)

Jay Cee said:


> Man, you worry too much.




It is not worry, it is knowledge I am after Jay Cee. Knowledge is king.


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## Smoop (23/8/12)

WarmBeer said:


> Hope this helps - link




Thank you for the link, I have read that already.


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## DU99 (23/8/12)

Sodium perc 1 teaspoon,fill fermenter to top with warm/hot water..leave sit for awhile,the drain.as it's empties i use a soft sponge to remove any gunk that's still siting on the sides.once empty i rinse,then if i am going to fill again i use starsan


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## Smoop (23/8/12)

Thanks for all the replies. I think I have enough info up my sleeves now to tide me over for the moment.


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## Jay Cee (23/8/12)

If youre in sydney, you are welcome to join me on saturday morning brewday and ill give you the complete rundown, to simplify the whole brewing process. Pm me if interested. Kicking off at 1030, bring a 6 pack.and maybe a notepad.


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## mwd (23/8/12)

The hardest thing to remove is the krausen ring on the inside of the fermenter an overnight soak usually gets the job done and a good wipe.


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## tricache (23/8/12)

Tropical_Brews said:


> The hardest thing to remove is the krausen ring on the inside of the fermenter an overnight soak usually gets the job done and a good wipe.



+1 to that...that thing is a mongrel to get off!!!


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## warra48 (23/8/12)

Forget all the fancy stuff.

You are brewing kits, right?

So, what do you have to clean?

1. Maybe a pot of some sort? Use the dishwasher.

2. A spoon to stir your wort? Use the dishwasher.

3. A fermenter? Use a kitchen sponge. The yeast trub cake is great for cleaning off the kraeusen ring from the fermenter, it has just enough abrasive quality without damaging your fermenter surface. Then just rinse (I do it with my garden hose). If needs be, use a plastic dishwashing brush. The brush is good for getting into the rim etc. Don't use anything which might scratch the inside surface.

4. The fermenter tap? Unscrew, and use a piece of dowel to take it apart. It should clean with just rinsing. Reassemble. There are posts on here to show you how to do it.

5. Anything else? Just rinse after use, or clean as in 3 if needed. Let dry.

1,2 3, 4, and 5. Simply sanitise before use. 

There's no need to complicate any of this stuff. All you are looking to do is to clean your gear to a state where there is no visible dirt or deposits, the same as your ordinary dishes, cutlery etc. Once you have done that, it's ready for sanitiser before use.

By the way, the advice from Bum is sound. Don't let your perception of his attitude get in the way of following good advice.


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## Smoop (23/8/12)

Jay Cee said:


> If youre in sydney, you are welcome to join me on saturday morning brewday and ill give you the complete rundown, to simplify the whole brewing process. Pm me if interested. Kicking off at 1030, bring a 6 pack.and maybe a notepad.




Thanks mate, Used to live in Sydney, now I live in paradise. Hervey Bay, QLD. So unfortunately I cannot take you up on that offer


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## QldKev (23/8/12)

Smoop said:


> Thanks mate, Used to live in Sydney, now I live in paradise. Hervey Bay, QLD. So unfortunately I cannot take you up on that offer



I'll extend the above invitation to Bundy. Come up and I'll put on a brew day, and a bed for the night. 


QldKev


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## thedragon (23/8/12)

bum said:


> Use that thing in the middle of your face. Put it right in the tub/ Does it smell kinda nice?



+1

Thanks Bum, now everyone on the tram think that I'm an idiot after I burst out laughing while reading this. Great comment!


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## Rowy (23/8/12)

Haven't heard from Silo Ted, Yasmani and Mike Litorous for a while................How's cocko by the way........


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## Cocko (23/8/12)

Rowy said:


> Haven't heard from Silo Ted, Yasmani and Mike Litorous for a while................How's cocko by the way........



Wow.. way off.


I am good btw!


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## Smoop (23/8/12)

QldKev said:


> I'll extend the above invitation to Bundy. Come up and I'll put on a brew day, and a bed for the night.
> 
> 
> QldKev




Thanks Kev, I will definitely take you up on that offer but it might not be for a few weeks


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## pmastello (24/8/12)

If you want to hear an hour of someone talking about cleaning and sanitizing, These two brew-strong episodes should set your right.

http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/membersar...ing11-10-08.mp3
http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/membersar...ation1-5-09.mp3


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## petesbrew (24/8/12)

Cleaning isn't rocket science. You clean the gunk off with a sponge (not scrubber), then sanitise it. Read the label, follow instructions.
Even the coopers beginner kit instructions detail cleaning.

Thanks for a good morning laugh, guys. Seeing Bum's frustration is worth it.


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## pcmfisher (24/8/12)

Smoop said:


> Thank you for the link, I have read that already.



That's a pretty comprehensive link that you have supposedly read. I really don't know what you want anyone to add to it.

If in fact you have read that link and still need to ask questions then maybe making beer is not for you.

Go buy some VB. h34r: h34r:


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## Jay Cee (24/8/12)

warra48 said:


> Use a kitchen sponge.




To clarify for the new brewer, use *a* kitchen sponge, not _your current _kitchen sponge. The one you use for everyday washing up will be swarming with bacteria. Buy a packet that will be dedicated only to the brew gear, and change often.


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## Smoop (25/8/12)

pcmfisher said:


> That's a pretty comprehensive link that you have supposedly read. I really don't know what you want anyone to add to it.
> 
> If in fact you have read that link and still need to ask questions then maybe making beer is not for you.
> 
> Go buy some VB. h34r: h34r:




Just because someone has questions, and just because someone just does not take one persons answer as gospel does not mean "then maybe making beer is not for you. Go buy some VB. " 
It means that this someone is interested in learning more than what you yourself have learnt, and one day will be a better brewer than yourself because, not only knowing what to use, he will know why it's used and also how to use it and even if it is safe to use and even go as far as to find out its chemical makeup and even possibly learn about the history of what he is using to find out how it came about to be being used. 
Just because you read one article on one website and declare it as gospel does not mean others who like to research things are going to take your method of being a sheep and following just what you have been told as gospel.

Don't just be a complete dickface and come to a thread that someone is asking questions and decide you are somebody, when in fact you are nothing but a hack trying to be witty. (See I can also make massive assumptions from just one single post you have made and make you look like a complete idiot also.) Next time try and make yourself useful and answer a question that is asked, or just **** off to another thread.

Oh boy, I'm starting to really like these forums already. I love how people think that asking questions qualifies you as being less intelligent as themselves because they know something more about a single subject as themselves. I'm going to love it around here.

Paul.


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## Smoop (25/8/12)

Jay Cee said:


> To clarify for the new brewer, use *a* kitchen sponge, not _your current _kitchen sponge. The one you use for everyday washing up will be swarming with bacteria. Buy a packet that will be dedicated only to the brew gear, and change often.




Yes, I have done this already Jay Cee, and also if you did not know this. Soak your sponge in water, put it on a plate, 3 minutes in the microwave and you now have a sterile sponge.


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## Smoop (25/8/12)

OK, I have been down to the local homebrew store and spoke to the owner and got some very simple instructions and answers to questions on why things work the way they do with cleaning and have finally worked out why I have been so pedantic about this cleaning business. The reason being is in every piece of literature CLEANING AND SANITIZING IS KING. So for someone who has never brewed before getting this right is of utmost importance. For all of you harassing me for asking questions, GO **** YOURSELVES. 

For all of you great guys putting up with me and answering my questions as best you could. THANK YOU!!


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## glenwal (25/8/12)

Smoop said:


> and got some very simple instructions and answers



Would you mind sharing this wonderful advise you have been given?


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## Ivan Other One (25/8/12)

Smoop said:


> For all of you harassing me for asking questions, GO **** YOURSELVES.
> 
> For all of you great guys putting up with me and answering my questions as best you could. THANK YOU!!



Here we count out 673 beads of napisan. That will be the correct ratio for a thirty litre fermenter,

Place all of these beads gently into the fermenter and then disolve them all with hot tap water. About three litres of this water should be enought to disolve the beads. 

Once the beads have disolved, (You may need to shack and swirl the solution for this to happen)completely fill the fermenter and then let it rest for about 24 hours. 

This should be long enough for all the wonderful enzymes in the napisan to do their job and disolve all of the muck left in the fermenter that you want to get rid of. a soft Chux cloth or the like of this will be helpful to physically remove any stubborn muck. Place this cloth in one hand, and dunk it into the napisan solution in your fermenter to wipe this muck off.

Empty the fermenter and rinse with warm water about three times.

Your fermenter is now ready for the steralization process before your next brew.


Please note that your thanks is not required for my advice,,as I have already made preparations to GO **** Myself.


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## yum beer (25/8/12)

3 pages on how to clean your fermenter.
I dont think even Truman could've done that.

Gonna be fun when he wants to know how to reculture yeast...

Yes, I know, GO **** YOURSELF.....sorry I was feeling left out.


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## Jay Cee (25/8/12)

Ivan Other One said:


> You may need to shack and swirl the solution for this to happen



Hold on, hold on, this is getting confusing. You didn't say whether to swirl clockwise, or anti-clockwise to dissolve. I really need a simple answer, and fast, because I'm counting out the 673 beads right now.


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## Ivan Other One (25/8/12)

Jay Cee said:


> Hold on, hold on, this is getting confusing. You didn't say whether to swirl clockwise, or anti-clockwise to dissolve. I really need a simple answer, and fast, because I'm counting out the 673 beads right now.



Appologies Jay Cee, Just to correct this oversight, I find the shaking and swirling anti-clockwise will impart extra exitement into the anti-muck ensymes, which will greatly aid in the cleaning process.  


Damn it, this oversight means i may just have to go **** myself AGAIN!!!


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## pcmfisher (25/8/12)

Smoop said:


> OK, I have been down to the local homebrew store and spoke to the owner and got some very simple instructions and answers to questions on why things work the way they do with cleaning and have finally worked out why I have been so pedantic about this cleaning business. The reason being is in every piece of literature CLEANING AND SANITIZING IS KING.



You've got me intrigued now.
What are these "very simple instructions" you got from your homebrew store?
Do they differ at all from what you have been told in this thread? :huh:


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## mwd (25/8/12)

Thread hijack on the subject of cleaning so not totally Off Topic. Stupid Question where do you buy a bottle brush? Seen them in youtube videos but never spotted one in the local shops like Coles or Woolies. My PET bottles feel a little oily inside now after multiple brews and I do give them a good rinse and shake straight after use.


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## JDW81 (25/8/12)

Tropical_Brews said:


> Thread hijack on the subject of cleaning so not totally Off Topic. Stupid Question where do you buy a bottle brush? Seen them in youtube videos but never spotted one in the local shops like Coles or Woolies. My PET bottles feel a little oily inside now after multiple brews and I do give them a good rinse and shake straight after use.



Your local brew shop should sell em. Might also find them with the HB gear somewhere like BigW. 

GIve you bottles a soak in napisan, that should help too.


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## rippa (25/8/12)

Tropical_Brews said:


> where do you buy a bottle brush? Seen them in youtube videos but never spotted one in the local shops like Coles or Woolies.


Try the 'Baby section' in the supermarkets. Near the baby bottles.


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## JDW81 (25/8/12)

Smoop said:


> Yes, I have done this already Jay Cee, and also if you did not know this. Soak your sponge in water, put it on a plate, 3 minutes in the microwave and you now have a sterile sponge.



I'd be using a fresh sponge. While the microwave sterilisation may work I wouldn't be willing to risk it. A pack of 50 home brand sponges, $2. Peace of mind, priceless.


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## Jay Cee (25/8/12)

Heat sterilisation requires a temp of around 135 degrees to be held for three minutes. I don't believe that microwaving a sponge would achieve a state of microbiological sterility in that timeframe. 

Keep the filthy kitchen sponge/cloth in the kitchen, and away from your brew gear.


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## glenwal (25/8/12)

Why would you need a sterile sponge anyway? Are you using the sponge to help sanitise/sterilise the fermenter? If its just for cleaning then whats the point?


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## Jay Cee (25/8/12)

Glen W said:


> Why would you need a sterile sponge anyway? Are you using the sponge to help sanitise/sterilise the fermenter? If its just for cleaning then whats the point?



I don't think he's talking about trying to create a sterile sponge for his brew cleanup, but instead sharing some random trivia.


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## bum (25/8/12)

Smoop said:


> For all of you great guys putting up with me and answering my questions as best you could. THANK YOU!!


You're welcome.


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## jyo (25/8/12)

JDW81 said:


> Your local brew shop should sell em. Might also find them with the HB gear somewhere like BigW.
> 
> GIve you bottles a soak in napisan, that should help too.



Yup. And if the napisan doesn't shift it then cut the handle off the bottle brush and whack that end in your cordless drill to give your bottles a good thrashing. Works a treat.

edit- hehe, typo


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## Crusty (25/8/12)

jyo said:


> **** the handle off the bottle brush and whack that end in your
> 
> Sounds scary.


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## felten (25/8/12)

PET is supposed to be a little slippery/hydrophobic, I wouldn't go too hard with the brush or you could scratch the shit out of them.

BTW the slippery feeling from nappisan is just the saponification of the oils on your skin.


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## jyo (25/8/12)

felten said:


> PET is supposed to be a little slippery/hydrophobic, I wouldn't go too hard with the brush or you could scratch the shit out of them.
> 
> BTW the slippery feeling from nappisan is just the saponification of the oils on your skin.



Sorry, missed the PET part. Definitely go easy if it's a hard brush. 

@ crusty: I think the Friday night chat got me there, mate


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## mwd (25/8/12)

Good points also Iodophor solution makes bottles feel slippery both glass and PET.


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## Jay Cee (25/8/12)

Tropical_Brews said:


> Good points also Iodophor solution makes bottles feel slippery both glass and PET.



I have never noticed that, and I'm onto my third 1L bottle. Maybe its a reaction to your skin only.


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## Crusty (26/8/12)

jyo said:


> Sorry, missed the PET part. Definitely go easy if it's a hard brush.
> 
> @ crusty: I think the Friday night chat got me there, mate



Awesome. :lol:


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## wbosher (26/8/12)

F*ckn hilarious...I'm going now to change my undies. :lol:


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