# Home Brewer Stats / Numbers?



## trustyrusty (14/2/11)

Hi 

Would anyone have or know the number of home brewers in Australia, percentage increases?

Any stats that are avaliable from a site or PDF somewhere?

Thanks

Rusty


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## Cortez The Killer (14/2/11)

That's really a "how long is a piece of string?" sort of question

Even looking at ingredient sales data isn't really going to help you much

There are a lot of brewers on the interweb talking about beer making - but I imagine that that would be fraction of the number out there brewing in their sheds

Without a national register - I'd imagine any figures you find would involve nothing more than a stab in the dark

Cheers

Edit: Perhaps rather than looking at an exact number it'd be best to look at the success of online brewshops, the rise of brew on premises sites, the roll out of weird and wonderful brewing gear and the amount of beery knowledge now available on the web


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## fcmcg (14/2/11)

Trustyrusty said:


> Hi
> 
> Would anyone have or know the number of home brewers in Australia, percentage increases?
> 
> ...


Gee...i reckon that would almost be impossible to calculate.
I don't think that there was a tick box on the last census " do you homebrew? h34r: "
And then there are the mead/cider makers , home wine makers....do we include them ?
I reckon that even in the last 3 years , the hobby has grown ...but couldn't tell you by how much...or what was the starting percentage...
Also not sure that the brew shops would be keen to tell you how much their business have grown...
Good luck !


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## Acasta (14/2/11)

I tried looking at google trends, but the problem with that is that the word 'homebrew' also refers to custom firm/softwear for technological devices.


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## Dave70 (14/2/11)

Hard to say.
I see a spike around the Christmas period as blokes tear the wrapping off their home brew kits given to them by family.
Followed by a plateau for about a month coinciding with a jump in sales of white sugar and long necks. 
Then a slump in the number followed by an oversupply of 'used once' HB kits on e-bay.

Why do you ask?
Are you a statistician or something?

Or do you work for the government?.....


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## Supra-Jim (14/2/11)

fergthebrewer said:


> I don't think that there was a tick box on the last census " do you homebrew? h34r: "



Perhaaps next census, instead of writing Jedi in the religion section, we could all write craft beer?  

Cheers SJ


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## Bribie G (14/2/11)

In this neck of the woods I'd say that distillers would outnumber beer brewers, going on the sale of flavouring essences, dextrose etc. The owner of a home brew business recently told me that for most local home brew shops, distilling related product is around 70% of their profit.

The thing about beer brewing is that you aren't limited to home brew shops to get your ingredients. Apart from the hops you can walk into any IGA supermarket any day of the week, totally ignore the home brew section and go straight to the grocery shelves and rustle up enough ingredients to make a drinkable although not award winning basic beer, as they used to do in the 60s before beer kits came on the market. Ingredients for Non beer brewing such as mead and cider you can source from any supermarket or farmers market in the land. 

And long may it be so.

As stated, how long is a piece of string.


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## trustyrusty (14/2/11)

Not Gov 

I ask because because I am putting together an article on why home brew is booning (if it is  I have to prove it ) 
Yes stats are hard to find on this subject

yellow pages tells me there are 272 shops and that excludes online stores,

Have any noticed the number of stores increase? Ideas on that?

thanks



BribieG said:


> In this neck of the woods I'd say that distillers would outnumber beer brewers, going on the sale of flavouring essences, dextrose etc. The owner of a home brew business recently told me that for most local home brew shops, distilling related product is around 70% of their profit.
> 
> The thing about beer brewing is that you aren't limited to home brew shops to get your ingredients. Apart from the hops you can walk into any IGA supermarket any day of the week, totally ignore the home brew section and go straight to the grocery shelves and rustle up enough ingredients to make a drinkable although not award winning basic beer, as they used to do in the 60s before beer kits came on the market. Ingredients for Non beer brewing such as mead and cider you can source from any supermarket or farmers market in the land.
> 
> ...


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## trustyrusty (14/2/11)

fergthebrewer said:


> Gee...i reckon that would almost be impossible to calculate.
> I don't think that there was a tick box on the last census " do you homebrew? h34r: "
> And then there are the mead/cider makers , home wine makers....do we include them ?
> I reckon that even in the last 3 years , the hobby has grown ...but couldn't tell you by how much...or what was the starting percentage...
> ...



Understandable


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## trustyrusty (14/2/11)

Question is

Do you think there are enough home brewers out there to have an effect on beer sales? 

Cheap wine has been blamed on poor beer sales - I think wine drinkers are just drinking more wine


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## stuchambers (14/2/11)

I think the home brewers have an effect on the sale of craft beer. What I mean is they are the group that is probably more inclined to buy it. 
I know people that say they are make home brew and they do but it is only 3 or 4 batches in a year.

Cheers Stu


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## bum (14/2/11)

For what audience do you want us to write your article, Rusty?


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## trustyrusty (14/2/11)

bum said:


> For what audience do you want us to write your article, Rusty?



Business magazine and hobby magazine (re purposed for the latter)


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## petesbrew (14/2/11)

bum said:


> For what audience do you want us to write your article, Rusty?


  Nice one!


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## Bribie G (14/2/11)

Articles are dead easy to write. First two paragraphs need to set the scene but in a way that the reader wouldn't have a frigging clue what it's about so has to keep reading and reading, then the penny drops half way through so they just keep reading your article anyway. If you state the subject of the article up front, half of them will just read the first sentence then go no further. Nat Geo and "Lifestyle" supplements in the Weekend papers are masters of this.

Shit Poor Style:

HOME BREW INCREASING.
Latest figures confirm that home brewed beer now accounts for 15 percent of the beer market in Australia, with approximately 250,000 Australians stating that they brewed at least five batches in 2010.... booorrringgg


Perfect Article Style:

HOPPING TO IT IN WORT TOWN NEAR YOU

The small terrier rushes out excitedly to greet the newcomers. Men of all ages, most carrying mysterious packages and somewhat ambiguous shiny object are descending on a garage - maybe near you. Saturday Morning and you could be forgiven for thinking that this leafy street was Chardonnay Central - after all the jumble of Monier Tiled roofs and perfectly manicured lawns is pregnant with the promise of a late afternoon Barbeque, the SUVs scattering - wife driven - to the nearest shoppingtown to pick up perhaps a six bottle special of Cuvee Naturelle or a naughty red to share over the canapes and butterflied BBQ lamb leg.. the tulip glasses already arrayed ... but you would be surprised blah blah blah 

B) 

Ok avoiding the cleaning and housework I'd better get on with it. Those Val Day flowers have just about been used up....

B)


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## DanRayner (14/2/11)

BribieG said:


> Articles are dead easy to write. First two paragraphs need to set the scene but in a way that the reader wouldn't have a frigging clue what it's about so has to keep reading and reading, then the penny drops half way through so they just keep reading your article anyway. If you state the subject of the article up front, half of them will just read the first sentence then go no further. Nat Geo and "Lifestyle" supplements in the Weekend papers are masters of this.
> 
> Shit Poor Style:
> 
> ...



Two completely different types of articles Bribie.

The first one you created looks much like an actual _news article_ - where you want all the important stuff up front in what's known as the _lead paragraph_ so people skimming through the news can decide quickly whether it is important to them or they can move on to the next article.

The second example appears more like a _feature article_ - an article about a softer news story where the reader is led in to the story possibly in a round-about way, features are not considered to be actual news articles - or, this maybe even be the start of an _editorial _(opinion) depends on where it goes from here.

But neither is of shit poor style if they are appropriate for their position in the paper/journal/magazine


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## trustyrusty (14/2/11)

Thanks don't remember asking for help on how to write article 

Dan you can't spell Canberra unless your from Canbeera - and therefore I apologize to all the Canbeerians 



DanRayner said:


> Two completely different types of articles Bribie.
> 
> The first one you created looks much like an actual _news article_ - where you want all the important stuff up front in what's known as the _lead paragraph_ so people skimming through the news can decide quickly whether it is important to them or they can move on to the next article.
> 
> ...


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## petesbrew (14/2/11)

Trustyrusty said:


> Business magazine and hobby magazine (re purposed for the latter)


Sooo, Picture or Zoo Weekly?


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## trustyrusty (14/2/11)

BribieG said:


> HOME BREW INCREASING.
> Latest figures confirm that home brewed beer now accounts for 15 percent of the beer market in Australia, with approximately 250,000 Australians stating that they brewed at least five batches in 2010




Hi BribieG did you just make this up or based on some figures?

Thanks


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## DJR (14/2/11)

Good luck getting figures, try to ask some of the bigger distributors/producers such as Bintani, Coopers etc as they will have a view as to the size of the HB market.

70% profit on distilling products Bribie - that probably just means that there is a ton more markup on that gear as opposed to beer stuff.


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## Bribie G (14/2/11)

Trustyrusty said:


> Hi BribieG did you just make this up or based on some figures?
> 
> Thanks



made up of course  
I used to teach Shitstirring 101 B)


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## WarmBeer (14/2/11)

Trustyrusty said:


> Hi BribieG did you just make this up or based on some figures?
> 
> Thanks






BribieG said:


> made up of course
> I used to teach Shitstirring 101 B)


IIRC, 79.3% of statistics on the internet are made up.


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## QldKev (14/2/11)

WarmBeer said:


> IIRC, 79.3% of statistics on the internet are made up.




including that one! :lol: so make that 79.31%


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## WarmBeer (14/2/11)

QldKev said:


> including that one! :lol: so make that 79.31%


Bloody QldKev! Not only a statistician, but a pedantic one, too!


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## jonocarroll (14/2/11)

Trustyrusty said:


> I ask because because I am putting together an article on why home brew is booning (if it is  I have to prove it )
> Yes stats are hard to find on this subject


Clearly you're the person to be writing this. I mean, why research something for an article outside of your knowledge base (especially one where the conclusion is decided before any research) when you can sign up to a forum and ask for the content?

Perhaps I'm jaded, but I'm pretty tired of reading about topics given 15 minutes of interest from a pseudo-journo, hacked together from dubious fourth-hand sources and then edited in a way that changes the few facts to (even innocently) nice-sounding lies. It would be nice to think that you either need to be reporting on actual published research (as in direct-source) or going the other way and having a general opinion piece based on some actual interviews with people who do know the facts and figures. "BribieG on AHB says ... " is not suitable research if you ask me.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to aussiejourno.com to get data for my article on why blogging is booning (so I can prove it is).


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## Leigh (14/2/11)

Coles has just pulled all homebrew products from its shelves...wouldn't this suggest poor sales and therefore that home brewing is in decline h34r:

And Bribie, you KNOW the numbers are closer to 34% and 750,000!


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (14/2/11)

WarmBeer said:


> Bloody QldKev! Not only a statistician, but a pedantic one, too!



Only if the sample size was approximately equal to 1000.

Goomba


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## trustyrusty (14/2/11)

QuantumBrewer said:


> Clearly you're the person to be writing this. I mean, why research something for an article outside of your knowledge base (especially one where the conclusion is decided before any research) when you can sign up to a forum and ask for the content?
> 
> Perhaps I'm jaded, but I'm pretty tired of reading about topics given 15 minutes of interest from a pseudo-journo, hacked together from dubious fourth-hand sources and then edited in a way that changes the few facts to (even innocently) nice-sounding lies. It would be nice to think that you either need to be reporting on actual published research (as in direct-source) or going the other way and having a general opinion piece based on some actual interviews with people who do know the facts and figures. "BribieG on AHB says ... " is not suitable research if you ask me.
> 
> Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to aussiejourno.com to get data for my article on why blogging is booning (so I can prove it is).



@quantumbrewer 

I am researching data for an article - there are no buttons to push so I can extract - there are no stats so I thought I would ask people who I thought would know..

Part of an article is research - do you expect every journalist to write about something they know about?

What if it is a new topic?

I could be the best tennis player in the world but don't know how raquets are made..

I was hoping somebody that knew some exact figures would read this post that is what I am trying to find out

NOT make stuff up 


bloggers make stuff up.... and stuff ups


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## bum (14/2/11)

Trustyrusty said:


> I could be the best tennis player in the world but don't know how raquets are made..


Nor strong analogies.


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## stux (14/2/11)

BribieG said:


> In this neck of the woods I'd say that distillers would outnumber beer brewers, going on the sale of flavouring essences, dextrose etc. The owner of a home brew business recently told me that for most local home brew shops, distilling related product is around 70% of their profit.
> 
> The thing about beer brewing is that you aren't limited to home brew shops to get your ingredients. Apart from the hops you can walk into any IGA supermarket any day of the week, totally ignore the home brew section and go straight to the grocery shelves and rustle up enough ingredients to make a drinkable although not award winning basic beer, as they used to do in the 60s before beer kits came on the market. Ingredients for Non beer brewing such as mead and cider you can source from any supermarket or farmers market in the land.
> 
> ...



Always amazes me when I'm at the LHBS, someone *always* comes in and picks up some essence...

Many people I talk to at social events etc "oh you homebrew... I distill"

And I'm quietly thinking... distilling is just a science experiment... and then you add some flavouring... you don't make "scotch" you're making flavoured ethanol...

what's worse is the ones who *like* their *nasty* ethanol... oh yeah... "i never bother with making sure the temperatures are right.... gives me more flavour"

omg...

oh well...

The fun thing is, when the distillers taste my beer... they want to know more


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## stux (14/2/11)

If you want to do some *real* research into this, then that might be a good thing...

try interviewing the actual ingredient producers, and perhaps the larger HBS chains... and some of the smaller ones... find out what *they* think.

I'm sure Coopers could give you an idea about *their* perspective on the homebrew market... (if you ask nicely)

And what about the distrubtors of grain... won't they know how many sacks they sell to the homebrew suppliers? will they want to tell you?

I know most of Coopers malt extract actually goes to the food industry, it was in their annual news release...


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## WarmBeer (14/2/11)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Only if the sample size was approximately equal to 1000.
> 
> Goomba


Not necessarily


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## DanRayner (14/2/11)

Trustyrusty said:


> Dan you can't spell Canberra unless your from Canbeera - and therefore I apologize to all the Canbeerians



No need to aplogise, we Canberra Brewers love _Canbeera_. But the spelling error was an intential pun.



Trustyrusty said:


> Cheap wine has been blamed *on* poor beer sales





Trustyrusty said:


> (*re purposed *for the latter)





Trustyrusty said:


> Dan you can't spell Canberra unless *your *from Canbeera





Trustyrusty said:


> I could be the best tennis player in the world but don't know how *raquets *are made..



Man, I hope you have a good (and patient) sub-editor...


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## jonocarroll (14/2/11)

Trustyrusty said:


> I am *researching data* for an article - there are no buttons to push so I can extract - *there are no stats* so I thought I would ask people who I thought would know..
> 
> *Part of an article is research* - do you expect every journalist to write about something they know about?
> 
> *What if it is a new topic?*


a/ There is no *data* here on what you are looking into. There may be opinions, but no data.
b/ Though I would be terribly surprised to find that absolutely no data exists on the number of homebrewers or the subject you are asking about, if that is the case, what do you expect to learn by asking for data?
c/ Research (v): attempt to find out in a systematically and scientific manner; (n) systematic investigation to establish fact; Asking for opinions on the facts is not research. Had you posted to a bureau-of-statistics forum or even a marketing forum, perhaps you might have been able to find someone doing the research, but you will not find the data there either.
d/ Of course a journo isn't going to be knowledgeable in every subject, but perhaps rather than scrambling together an article that makes it look like they do know the ins-and-outs, they should either leave the writing to someone who does, or just *report* on the facts rather than present them.
e/ If it is a new topic, then compiling the loosely-gathered data without knowing the subject is an exercise in either futility or uber-mainstream-media-fluff-piece-writing.

I hope that what you meant to say when you first started posting is along the lines of

"I am writing an article on the (possible) rise in popularity of home brewing. I would like your opinions on this topic."

Rather than 'what is the answer - please do my homework for me'.

Personally, I would love to see an article on the topic proposed, but not if it didn't tell me anything I could believe, or if it was a fleshed-out bunch of interviews of brewers saying 'yes', 'no', and 'well up here on the north side of the island where ALDI has DME on special on Thursdays which is good because I usually go for my walk past the shops on the way to the local pub where I can get a decent beer most of the time and after which I go for a walk down on the beach... brewing is good'.

[From a research-writing pedant who spends a lot of time doing research/writing up research/reading Bad Science and pointing out errors in scientific writings].


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (14/2/11)

DanRayner said:


> No need to aplogise, we Canberra Brewers love _Canbeera_. But the spelling error was an intential pun.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sweet, someone said it.

My inner Sheldon was twitching.

Goomba


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## Nick JD (14/2/11)

I'm pretty sure Coles and/or Woolies have not removed their homebrew cans because they are not selling. It's because they sell booze. 

That's like dope dealers selling seedlings. Or you buying your wife a vibrating dildo. Self-defeating. 

Why it took them so long to realise they can make much more money selling cartons of beer for $40 than the ingredients to make $150 worth of beer for $12 is beyond me. But then I'm not Chief Executive Dickwad at Coles.


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## Lecterfan (14/2/11)

I love it when the academics get fired up! 















Almost as much as I love establishing the _a priori _unfalsifiable evidence of my hypothesis purely due to the premise of my question. :lol:



Edit: HAHAHAHA!!!!!! @ NickJD - so we know what you DIDN'T get your significant other for valentines day. Awesome, that will keep me giggling for days.


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## bradsbrew (14/2/11)

Trustyrusty said:


> I could be the best tennis player in the world but don't know how raquets are made..


C'mon.  

I am sure the worlds best know how tennis bats are made.


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## Leigh (14/2/11)

Nick JD said:


> I'm pretty sure Coles and/or Woolies have not removed their homebrew cans because they are not selling. It's because they sell booze.
> 
> That's like dope dealers selling seedlings. Or you buying your wife a vibrating dildo. Self-defeating.
> 
> Why it took them so long to realise they can make much more money selling cartons of beer for $40 than the ingredients to make $150 worth of beer for $12 is beyond me. But then I'm not Chief Executive Dickwad at Coles.



So we can expect them to stop selling flour so they can sell more cake mixes?


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## DanRayner (14/2/11)

QuantumBrewer said:


> a/ There is no *data* here on what you are looking into. There may be opinions, but no data.
> b/ Though I would be terribly surprised to find that absolutely no data exists on the number of homebrewers or the subject you are asking about, if that is the case, what do you expect to learn by asking for data?
> c/ Research (v): attempt to find out in a systematically and scientific manner; (n) systematic investigation to establish fact; Asking for opinions on the facts is not research. Had you posted to a bureau-of-statistics forum or even a marketing forum, perhaps you might have been able to find someone doing the research, but you will not find the data there either.
> d/ Of course a journo isn't going to be knowledgeable in every subject, but perhaps rather than scrambling together an article that makes it look like they do know the ins-and-outs, they should either leave the writing to someone who does, or just *report* on the facts rather than present them.
> ...



+1000

Yes!!!

But this really isn't helping me concentrate on finishing my own thesis. And QB: get back to work!



Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Sweet, someone said it.
> 
> My inner Sheldon was twitching.
> 
> Goomba



I just couldn't let it go. These were just the weird spelling and grammatical mistakes, I didn't know how to attack the problem that many of his sentences weren't actual sentences and just didn't make sense. I kept wanting to quote my Microsoft Word: "Fragment, consider revising"!



Lecterfan said:


> I love it when the academics get fired up!
> 
> Almost as much as I love establishing the _a priori _unfalsifiable evidence of my hypothesis purely due to the premise of my question. :lol:
> 
> Edit: HAHAHAHA!!!!!! @ NickJD - so we know what you DIDN'T get your significant other for valentines day. Awesome, that will keep me giggling for days.


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## jonocarroll (14/2/11)

DanRayner said:


> And QB: get back to work!









Make me.

<goes back to writing research articles>


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## Nick JD (14/2/11)

Leigh said:


> So we can expect them to stop selling flour so they can sell more cake mixes?



Yes. 

Look at the ratio of raw ingredients sold in a supermarket in 1975 compared to now. At this rate, raw foods will become a "speciality" item by 2050. 

How many items in the supermarket have one ingredient on the pack? 

It's all about value-adding and the fat, busy, tired consumer.


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## brettprevans (14/2/11)

AHB member increase stats are on AHB board info section. 
Or maybe do a search.


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## trustyrusty (14/2/11)

QuantumBrewer said:


> a/ There is no *data* here on what you are looking into. There may be opinions, but no data.
> b/ Though I would be terribly surprised to find that absolutely no data exists on the number of homebrewers or the subject you are asking about, if that is the case, what do you expect to learn by asking for data?
> c/ Research (v): attempt to find out in a systematically and scientific manner; (n) systematic investigation to establish fact; Asking for opinions on the facts is not research. Had you posted to a bureau-of-statistics forum or even a marketing forum, perhaps you might have been able to find someone doing the research, but you will not find the data there either.
> d/ Of course a journo isn't going to be knowledgeable in every subject, but perhaps rather than scrambling together an article that makes it look like they do know the ins-and-outs, they should either leave the writing to someone who does, or just *report* on the facts rather than present them.
> ...



@QuantumBrewer


Why do you always get these smart ar*** in the world ....

Instead of trying to help me, you have to show everyone how clever you are and rip me apart, I am only trying to promote your industry...

any publicity is good publicity I heard....

but you are a research student or something..


if you were that smart you should probably not drink alcohol...

what are you doing here?


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## jonocarroll (14/2/11)

Trustyrusty said:


> Why do you always get these smart ar*** in the world ....


I know, right? Like I keep seeing these lazy people everywhere expecting someone else to do their work for them. Crazy.



Trustyrusty said:


> Instead of trying to help me, you have to show everyone how clever you are and rip me apart,


As I've tried to point out, you won't get the data you're after here. It is not here.






Maybe, just maybe, you should have opened with 'I'm writing a research/newspaper/whatever article' rather than 'I am [for all you know] a brewer and I have these questions'...



Trustyrusty said:


> I am only trying to promote your industry...
> 
> any publicity is good publicity I heard....


Yeah, I stand to lose millions if you don't promote it properly.

If you insist on getting data from this forum, you will have opinion [ranging from vague to obsessive] from home brewers. That is not 'is homebrew becoming more popular' or 'is there an increase'? You may as well ask flu patients if medications are becoming more effective. All you really have is the increase in popularity with each of those people.

Then again, if you want to write that article - my interest in home brew started around age 18, and has been increasing steadily since. 100% of me has enjoyed the craft so far.



Trustyrusty said:


> but you are a research student or something..


Yeah, damn me and my actual research. Truth be told, I spent most of my postgraduate time asking about stuff on forums instead of actually looking it up or researching it myself.



Trustyrusty said:


> what are you doing here?


Discussing brewing, mostly. What are you doing here?


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## Nick JD (14/2/11)

If you hit the google "search" button twice really quickly, is that re-search?


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## Hatchy (15/2/11)

Nick JD said:


> If you hit the google "search" button twice really quickly, is that re-search?



It's probably a double search I reckon. We should really go to google school to find out for sure.

I'd also like to get all of my AHB posts translated into binary code. Leather bound if possible.


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## michael_aussie (15/2/11)

Supra-Jim said:


> Perhaaps next census, instead of writing Jedi in the religion section, we could all write craft beer?
> Cheers SJ


now that's a good idea .... I've been a Jedi Knight and a Satanist in the past. A "home brewer" is a great religion. We may even get a tax free status like the other kooky ones..... Mormons, Scientology



BribieG said:


> Articles are dead easy to write. First two paragraphs need to set the scene but in a way that the reader wouldn't have a frigging clue what it's about so has to keep reading and reading, then the penny drops half way through so they just keep reading your article anyway. If you state the subject of the article up front, half of them will just read the first sentence then go no further. Nat Geo and "Lifestyle" supplements in the Weekend papers are masters of this.
> 
> Shit Poor Style:
> 
> ...


BribieG -- love it.



bum said:


> Nor strong analogies.


bum ... you're sometimes a bastard ..... but I love your comments!!



Nick JD said:


> Or you buying your wife a vibrating dildo. Self-defeating.


now there's someone who knows analogies!!

btw == good luck with your article == post a link here when it gets published.


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## jonocarroll (15/2/11)

Hatchy said:


> It's probably a double search I reckon. We should really go to google school to find out for sure.
> 
> I'd also like to get all of my AHB posts translated into binary code. Leather bound if possible.


Are you sure? You get the leather binding, I'll start printing. $1 per page of course.

[codebox]

0000000: 01001001 01110100 00100111 01110011 00100000 01110000 It's p

0000006: 01110010 01101111 01100010 01100001 01100010 01101100 robabl

000000c: 01111001 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100100 01101111 y a do

0000012: 01110101 01100010 01101100 01100101 00100000 01110011 uble s

0000018: 01100101 01100001 01110010 01100011 01101000 00100000 earch

000001e: 01001001 00100000 01110010 01100101 01100011 01101011 I reck

0000024: 01101111 01101110 00101110 00100000 01010111 01100101 on. We

000002a: 00100000 01110011 01101000 01101111 01110101 01101100 shoul

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00000a8: 00101110 00100000 01001100 01100101 01100001 01110100 . Leat
00000ae: 01101000 01100101 01110010 00100000 01100010 01101111 her bo
00000b4: 01110101 01101110 01100100 00100000 01101001 01100110 und if
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[/codebox]


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## WarmBeer (15/2/11)

Binary representation of ascii codes, pfffft...

Unicode encoding FTW, double your money!




QuantumBrewer said:


> Are you sure? You get the leather binding, I'll start printing. $1 per page of course.
> 
> [codebox]
> 
> ...


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## Lecterfan (15/2/11)

A question to all those who know something (or convincingly pretend) about the economy, markets, business etc etc (all the things a lefty-commo-pinko-lezzo like me is too ignorant to learn about but is happy to complain about):

-let us hypothetically assume that homebrew has risen significantly (at alpha .05 pedants) over the last 10 years, with another significant spike in the last 2 years. What are the ramifications for homebrewers? Does availbility of produce increase? Does the price of all things related increase? Does it attract Government attention and new regulations restricting home brewing?

We are way OT anyway so I would be interested to hear the opinions of those versed in the ways of the bull and the bear...


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## bum (15/2/11)

Trustyrusty said:


> Instead of trying to help me, you have to show everyone how clever you are and rip me apart, I am only trying to promote your industry...


If you read what he is saying (and equally what pretty much everyone else has said so far) he is completely right (even if you're not enjoying his tone). You aren't going to get the information you want here - all you're going to get is stories about why people brew (and even then it doesn't seem to me as though you're getting a broad enough experience being related to be useful in any way at all). The statistics just aren't here (if they are anywhere at all). The homebrew shops mentioned previously are most likely the busiest in the country and if you can get them to give you any info it will be the most useful to extrapolate (if you could be bothered, of course).


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## boingk (15/2/11)

I'm with the idea to put our religion on the next census form as 'Homebrewer'. It'd definitely get a mention in the national Australian Stats publication.

Cheers - boingk


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## EK (15/2/11)

Trustyrusty said:


> @QuantumBrewer
> 
> 
> Why do you always get these smart ar*** in the world ....
> ...



Yeah, QuantumBrewer is such a smart arse. How dare he have a go at you for doing shoddy research, just so that you can put some cobbled together article with no actual figures.

Why don't you contact Coppers or Morgans and ask them about the data that you want. They would have actual sales figures, not just guesses made by people on a forum. (Though there may be some people here who can do more than guess, though I haven't seen them make comment).

Also, where the hell do you get off? You come on to a forum and ask for solid data...are you nuts? Then you get all pissed off because someone calls you out for shitty research methods. Bugger off and leave our forum for what it is for...a discussion on home brewing, not on doing someone else's statistical research for a media article.


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## unrealeous (15/2/11)

WarmBeer said:


> Binary representation of ascii codes, pfffft...
> 
> Unicode encoding FTW, double your money!


Pathetic... try base64 encoding

"It's probably a double search I reckon. We should really go to google school to find out for sure. I'd also like to get all of my AHB posts translated into binary code. Leather bound if possible."

SXQncyBwcm9iYWJseSBhIGRvdWJsZSBzZWFyY2ggSSByZWNrb24uIFdlIHNob3VsZCByZWFsbHkg
Z28gdG8gZ29vZ2xlIHNjaG9vbCB0byBmaW5kIG91dCBmb3Igc3VyZS4gSSdkIGFsc28gbGlrZSB0b
yBnZXQgYWxsIG9mIG15IEFIQiBwb3N0cyB0cmFuc2xhdGVkIGludG8gYmluYXJ5IGNvZGUuIExlYXR
oZXIgYm91bmQgaWYgcG9zc2libGUu


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## fawnroux (15/2/11)

Lecterfan said:


> -let us hypothetically assume that homebrew has risen significantly (at alpha .05 pedants) over the last 10 years, with another significant spike in the last 2 years. What are the ramifications for homebrewers? Does availbility of produce increase? Does the price of all things related increase? Does it attract Government attention and new regulations restricting home brewing?



Ahhh, economics, my other passion  

To put it basically, the laws of supply and demand would be at work here. If there would be in increase in the number of homebrewers purchasing said products, then initially we could assume that as there would be more demand for the product, prices would rise. This is because there are more people wanting to buy the same amount of product (ie the current supply chain can only supply so much) and they bid up the prices. The evil capitalist LHBS operators enjoy larger profits and twirl their curly moustaches. What would happen now is, enterprising homebrewers would recognise the need for more product and see the profits being made and say to themselves "_I'll have me some of that thanks_". They would then open new homebrew shop, online purchasing, etc and the supply of products would increase. As they are all in competition, old guard and new, they will cut prices in the hope of retaining/attracting consumers. This would lead to a price fall. Many things can now happen - eg, more homebrewers enter the market, starting the scenario all over. Or maybe some operators close up shop as it's not worth the time for the lower profits, which would mean prices rise again, etc and so on.

As for the government, I doubt they would care too much. To much time and effort to tax homebrewers. It would only be if homwbrewing overtook the beer market to the extent that big brew companies would get pissed off. They would then give campaign donations on the proviso that the government do something about it. Government would then decree that HB is dangerous, not regulated, encourages heavy drinking, alcholism and contributes to Global Climate Disruption. Or something along those lines. <_< 

Dave


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## bum (15/2/11)

thefawnroux said:


> twirl their curly moustaches.


Loved it.


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## wakkatoo (15/2/11)

ahh, goddammit! I just read the last 3 pages <_<


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## Leigh (15/2/11)

Excellent work Dave...twisted into all of that is the rising price of commercial beer, driving consumers to something cheaper...the "willingness to pay" driver changes when people driven to homebrew by lower prices realise they get better quality for the homebrew...

or something along those lines...my economics is very limited lol


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## Lecterfan (15/2/11)

Excellent work. So I can rest easy, as you believe there will be equilibrium due to the reciprocity of rising demand and rising competition?

As for the Gov side of things, I hope you're right and that home brewing remains primarily underground and untouched by unnecassary regulation.

Cheers - it is something I have been pondering since this post first appeared.


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## stux (15/2/11)

I think an interesting effect is also the availability of better and more varied ingredients and equipment as the market size and sophistication increase. 

How many yeasts can we now get? All of them! 

What about hops and grain? Must be entire container loads of grain coming in from Germany these days.... Was that always the case?


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## fawnroux (15/2/11)

Lecterfan said:


> So I can rest easy, as you believe there will be equilibrium due to the reciprocity of rising demand and rising competition?



 Well as far as my crude, amateur interpretation of homebrew economic dynamics goes, you _could_ possibly rest easy. But there are plenty more issues that will affect our HB costs over the next for years. Eg, grain prices. 

But, I think i've gone :icon_offtopic:


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## HoppingMad (15/2/11)

Hi Trusty, it's a circus on here sometimes, but some of us mean well in our own warped way  

As I suggested on the other thread Trusty - you would need to contact some retailers like our sponsors directly as to what sort of numbers of people they're dealing with. Such as Ross at Craftbrewer or John at Grain & Grape.

My previous comments on the other thread were more to say I'm not sure if homebrewing as a hobby is going up or down, but you got me thinking about this one - after looking at some articles concerning Coopers and their sale of Home Brew kits and malt extract it looks like homebrewing is indeed alive and well as you suggested on that previous post, and that's not just bias from a forum member on a pet subject.
This is regardless of Coopers stock being deleted from Supermarkets.

Info you might be able to use on that subject is available here:
Coopers Malt Extract sales up 14.2%
Coopers Home Brew Kits shore up flattening commercial beer sales

There's 750,000 homebrewers in the US according to their AHA association. But unfortunately we don't really have an association like that here that could give you a number. The AABC is the closest you'll get and I have no idea who you'd contact (www.aabc.org.au). Link to US data:Article

So buggered if I know how many Aussies there are 'officially'. I have a feeling there was a thread on Aussiehomebrewer last year but I can't find it now. Would be interesting to know. 

Also the ANHC Conference (Australian National Homebrewing Conference) was held last year for the second time and drew hundreds of people from right around the country. Can't remember if it was 200, 300 or more but it seemed massive. It was also supported by a huge number of commercial breweries who contributed with speakers, samples and sponsorship - and clubs from WA to Canberra to Brisbane to Melbourne were there. Paul Mecurio was there cooking up beer with food (and is an avid homebrewer himself). When you attend an event like this (held at William Angliss College every two years), you can certainly see that the hobby of homebrewing has a passionate bunch of people behind it. We're certainly out there brewing, but with homebrewing often being such an 'independent' thing many don't join clubs, enter competitions or even post on forums like these - they just get on with brewing quietly, anonymously and happily in their own backyard. Hence the difficulty of your question.

Cheers, and all the best with it.

Hopper


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## The Scientist (15/2/11)

8... no... wait... 9, is this a rhetorical question?


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## rwmingis (15/2/11)

Good Question, but do we really wanna answer it? The way things go these days, as soon as Kristina or Julia find out how many there actually is, they'll figure out a way to tax it! 

- You're friendly neighbourhood cynic.


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## bradsbrew (15/2/11)

"Fcuk all people doing it because homebrew is shit." Well at least that is the report that should be sent to the minister for new taxes


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