# Another Rochefort 10 Thread



## manticle (19/8/11)

Just after some tips from anyone who has successfully brewed a tribute, homage or clone of this beer.

I'm developing a recipe based heavily on the brewing network show found here: http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/The-Sun...-Rochefort-Show

I've also used the stats from Brew like a monk which are:

OG: 1096
Apparent attenuation 89%, ABV 11.3%
IBU: 27

Pilsner malt, caramel malt, wheat starch, light and dark sugar.

Hallertau, styrian Goldings.

I've worked out a recipe for a 20 L batch which I aim to age, in bulk for 6+ months (more likely a year) before bottling. I'll also possibly be brewing with two other brewers so this recipe will get scaled up to a 60 L final volume batch.

The things I'm unclear on is the caramel malt - Special B seems a bit dark, Aromatic seems a bit light (and not a crystal) but I can't find an available medium BELGIAN crystal (caravienne or somesuch). The monks only use 1 crystal (medium Belgian type) apparently. I'm also unclear on the amount of coriander. Don't want to overdo it. Colour will be darker than suggested owing to use of dark candi syrup (proprietrary blend) not featured in recipe software.

Cheers.

ROCHEFORT 10 TRIBUTE

*Type:* All grain
*Size:* 20 liters
*Color: *26 HCU (~14 SRM) 

*Bitterness: *27 IBU

*OG:* 1.096

*FG:* 1.008

*Alcohol:* 11.3% v/v (8.9% w/w) 

*Grain:* 6kg Dingeman Pilsner
250g Dingeman biscuit
500g Raw wheat
400g Dingeman Special B
200g Dingeman aromatic



*Mash:* 70% efficiency, [temp] 55/62/68/72/78 
[time] 5/15/45/10/10

*Boil:* 90 minutes, SG 1.060, 32 liters

*Adjuncts: *200g Dextrose to kettle

700g Belgian dark candi sugar, added in increments after primary winds down

*Spices*: 20g fresh crushed coriander [email protected] 

*Hops:* 25g Hallertauer (4.25% AA, 80 min.)
25g Styrian Goldings (3.5% AA, 80 min.)
10g Hallertauer (4.25% AA, 10 min.)
10g Styrian Goldings (3.5% AA, 10 min.) 

*Yeast*: Wyeast 1762, 4-5 L starter grown from full fresh smack pack using reserved wort identical to above.

*Salts: *4g CaCl2 to mash and boil


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## Nick JD (19/8/11)

Wheat starch is "cornflour" ... but the cornflour made from wheat. Sounds cornfusing, but some packets of cornflour are 100% wheat starch.

I'd say it's not much different than adding dextrose if it's pure starch.

Also, a lot of the Yanks cloning these belgians seem to gravitate towards "raw sugar" as a large chunk of the sugar. 

Have you had attenuation problems from adding all the sugar in the boil? I'm sold on chucking it in at the start with 1214, but I'm not much of a 1762 fan - to me it seemed to be US05 with some pepper.


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## brettprevans (19/8/11)

Mants

whilst i applaud your good taste on making a R10 clone, I cant applaude you starting a new topic. however moving past that there are of course a couple of threads on R10 that Ive found us3eful, ive also got Kleiny's R10 clone recipe for you below. cracker.

*Rocheforte10 Kleiny Clone*
A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
Batch Size (L): 23.00 Wort Size (L): 23.00
Total Grain (kg): 9.15
Anticipated OG: 1.095 Plato: 22.62
Anticipated SRM: 51.2
Anticipated IBU: 40.3
Brewhouse Efficiency: 69 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar
% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
54.6 5.00 kg. Pilsner Australia 1.037 1
21.9 2.00 kg. Weyermann Munich I Germany 1.038 8
4.9 0.45 kg. Special B Malt Belgian 1.030 120
3.3 0.30 kg. Weyermann Caramunich I Germany 1.036 51
15.3 1.40 kg. Candi Sugar (dark) Generic 1.046 275


Hops
Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
70.00 g. Styrian Goldings Pellet 4.50 36.8 60 min.
20.00 g. Styrian Goldings Pellet 4.50 3.5 20 min.


Yeast
-----
any high grav yeast


Mash Schedule
singl step
Saccharification Rest Temp : 0 Time: 0
Mash-out Rest Temp : 0 Time: 0
Sparge Temp : 0 Time: 0

Notes
can sub munich1 for JW light munich 
any high grav yeast



I wouldnt be using much corriander at all. 10g max i recon. must be background flavour cause i cant remember getting corriander


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## manticle (19/8/11)

@Nick: Supposedly the tradition of adding wheat starch (originally corn starch, changed to wheat to avoid GM corn) was to supplement protein levels in the monks' vegetarian diet.

@ CM2: I've read plenty of the other threads and to be honest, none are particularly conclusive. Certainly no updates on how the beer actually turned out. Needs rejuvenation.

I know the beer doesn't taste like it has coriander but it does- not much according to the head brewer but some.

Kleiny's looks a bit off to me. 40 IBU and single infusion might make a great dark strong but very different from my research into R10. Grist and some other details look very different too.


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## Nick JD (19/8/11)

manticle said:


> Supposedly the tradition of adding wheat starch (originally corn starch, changed to wheat to avoid GM corn) was to supplement protein levels in the monks' vegetarian diet.



Just a guess, but wouldn't wheat starch have less protein in it than wheat? SOunds like they're trying to trick God during Lent, or Ramadan or whatever they stop eating for. 

Giving up food and drinking 10% beer probably does bring you closer to God.


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## manticle (19/8/11)

Maybe. The wheat starch is probably the least important part of the whole recipe but since the beer is as close to God as this atheist will ever get, I thought I'd do my best to stick with what they suggest.

To answer this question which wasn't there when I first replied (added in later edit):

'Have you had attenuation problems from adding all the sugar in the boil? I'm sold on chucking it in at the start with 1214, but I'm not much of a 1762 fan - to me it seemed to be US05 with some pepper'

Some earlier Belgian brews that I made with all the sugar in the boil produced too much warm alcohol for my liking. Advice from other brewers and consistent with some suggestions for yeasts from wyeast (particularly in regards to 3787) suggested adding in slowly after primary had slowed/stopped. Since doing that with any higher gravity Belgian styles I've made, the warmer alc problem has not appeared.


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## Nick JD (19/8/11)

I've got a Belgian Dark Strong in the fermenter atm that is threatening to not attenuate, but I've pushed the bastard to the nth degree - starting gravity was 1.105 - it's got half of Bundaberg's yearly production in there. 

Might have reached the end of the yeast, but I've read it'll go to there. It's actually a bit of a mongrel, got 30 IBUs of Amarillo late ... so not really to style, but I thought _imagine Chimay Blue with Amarillo and caraaroma..._ 

I hope it finishes. 

Is 1762 the Rochefort strain?


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## manticle (19/8/11)

Nick JD said:


> I've got a Belgian Dark Strong in the fermenter atm that is threatening to not attenuate, but I've pushed the bastard to the nth degree - starting gravity was 1.105 - it's got half of Bundaberg's yearly production in there.
> 
> Might have reached the end of the yeast, but I've read it'll go to there. It's actually a bit of a mongrel, got 30 IBUs of Amarillo late ... so not really to style, but I thought _imagine Chimay Blue with Amarillo and caraaroma..._
> 
> ...



From my reading, some trappists have used US hops at various times. Mongrels can be awful but they can also be fantastic.

According to Mr Malty yeast comparison, 1762 is the rochefort strain. I've never used it before.


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## brettprevans (19/8/11)

your probably right manticle about the recipe. it tastes fairly close though. 

i completely agree with BLAM about adding sugar slowly thru ferment. ive always had much better results doing it this way. 

re crystal malt. i vaugly remmeber ross stocking caravienne but CB site doesnt have it listed. maybe abby malt? but thats only 40EBC. Crystal - Heritage (Medium) by marris otter is about right? i know its not belgian but in liue of anything else?..... or just back on special B and sub in some extra light crystal to make up fermentables.

re corridander. 10g i recon, no more.


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## Kleiny (19/8/11)

*Nick - adding starch would not be the same as adding glucose as starch is made up of a long chain of glucose molecules once cleaved by alpha and beta amylase can take on many forms from glucose to maltose to maltotriose etc, this is how we get a different rates of fermentation efficiency by creating sugars that can and cant be utilized by yeast. 

*Mants - my dark strong is off the mark but getting there the 40IBU attempts to balance the highly sweet finish and in my attempt is not out waying the desired malty sweet side. The Coriander in my recipe may be a bit low as i cant pick it in the beer. I used the trappist high alc yeast blend from wyeast i think there is actually a strain that is said to be very close to the Rochefort strain, cant remember which one.

My beer was a good starting point most of my info came from brew like a monk and 
Sean Paxton Rochefort Clone 
The above link is Sean Paxton the home brew chef's homepage, he has done alot of work on this recipe even a guided tour of the brewery, download the tour pics from his sight somewhere.

Goodluck and let me now if you nail it, i'm yet to re-brew this one but maybe soon

Kleiny


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## manticle (19/8/11)

Kleiny said:


> *Nick - adding starch would not be the same as adding glucose as starch is made up of a long chain of glucose molecules once cleaved by alpha and beta amylase can take on many forms from glucose to maltose to maltotriose etc, this is how we get a different rates of fermentation efficiency by creating sugars that can and cant be utilized by yeast.
> 
> *Mants - my dark strong is off the mark but getting there the 40IBU attempts to balance the highly sweet finish and in my attempt is not out waying the desired malty sweet side.



Yeah that makes sense. If I can actually achieve the recipe's projected 1008 from 1096, I should get there but I can imagine it may not be wonderfully easy. I think stepping the sacch rest may help, as well as adding the sugar at the end (two things not done with the monks' version).



> The Coriander in my recipe may be a bit low as i cant pick it in the beer.



I can't pick it in the original really either though. According to the brewing network link, coriander is included historically as a preservative rather than as a flavouring.



> I used the trappist high alc yeast blend from wyeast i think there is actually a strain that is said to be very close to the Rochefort strain, cant remember which one.



1762



> My beer was a good starting point most of my info came from brew like a monk and
> Sean Paxton Rochefort Clone
> The above link is Sean Paxton the home brew chef's homepage, he has done alot of work on this recipe even a guided tour of the brewery, download the tour pics from his sight somewhere.



The Sean Paxton recipe was brewed before he visited the Rochefort monastery/brewery. Apparently his recipe was judged close but after his visit he said he would do some things differently. My recipe is based on his discussion of how things were at the brewery following his visit (and his homebrewchef attempt).



> Goodluck and let me now if you nail it, i'm yet to re-brew this one but maybe soon
> 
> Kleiny



If you're willing to wait the required maturation time and assuming mine works OK, I'd be well happy to swap a bottle or two.


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## BigDaddy (19/8/11)

manticle said:


> Some earlier Belgian brews that I made with all the sugar in the boil produced too much warm alcohol for my liking. Advice from other brewers and consistent with some suggestions for yeasts from wyeast (particularly in regards to 3787) suggested adding in slowly after primary had slowed/stopped. Since doing that with any higher gravity Belgian styles I've made, the warmer alc problem has not appeared.




I've had the same experience with the higher gravity belgian ales using WLP500. They also needed a longer ageing period before they balance out and 'come together' compared to those where the additions have been late in the primary. I reckon your hop choice and IBU's are good though. It certainly is a lovely beer. Good luck and I'll be watching with interest :icon_cheers:


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## Nick JD (20/8/11)

Kleiny said:


> *Nick - adding starch would not be the same as adding glucose as starch is made up of a long chain of glucose molecules once cleaved by alpha and beta amylase can take on many forms from glucose to maltose to maltotriose etc, this is how we get a different rates of fermentation efficiency by creating sugars that can and cant be utilized by yeast.



Of course, but many of the products of "body" are not starch derived. At a low mash temp, virtually all of that starch will become maltose ... and then alcohol. Compared to the same weight in grain you probably won't get the same FG. 

A 100% starch mash with amalyse added would not finish above 1.000 unless you mashed wicked high.


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## Vitalstatistix (24/8/11)

Manticle, send me your final recipie so I can put it in beersmith and scale it for a double batch and stuff and things and such.


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## Norcs (4/4/12)

Manticle, any updates as to how your recipe went ? I have been stalking your threads here and on BBB but to no avail.

Is the maturation process over ? 

....back to lurking now


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## manticle (4/4/12)

Should be maturing till around August, then I'll rack into bottling bucket with new yeast and sugar. Willl update the thread.

I made a small amount of choc raisin dubbel with some extra beer (20 L for the demijohn, 8-10 left over) prior to adding the dark candi to the main batch.

Very nice, zero head retention (maybe due to our accidental 2 hour protein rest?). If the main batch turns out tasting right, I will remake but make sure the step mash is spot on this time. The taste of the dubbel was very reassuring - nice colour and complexity, compared favourably with R8 (with the added choc and raisin notes too). I imagine the candi syrup (D2) will bring something extra to it but will have to wait a few more months to find out.


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## manticle (12/8/12)

Update.

I siphoned this out of the demijohn a couple of weeks ago. Due to the aforementioned accidental extended protein rest I was expecting bugger all head and mouthfeel so I decided to do a minimash of 1 kg dark wheat (all I had), 100g special B and 1 hersbrucker plug.

Reduced to about 2 L and fermented with US05. Added in while still at high krausen. Having aged this lovely lady for around a year, I would be adding some 05 anyway to the bottling bucket so that is now taken care of.

Just took a gravity reading and it's 1010 so I'll wait a few more days, then chill for another few, then bottle. Drinking the hydrometer sample at the moment - looks like the proteins from the wheat are apparent and the flavour has all the complexity I'd hope for from an aged dark strong. A few more weeks and I'll actually be able to crack a carbonated bottle and update once and for all but I'm pretty stoked that the wait seems to have been worth it.

Will just have to make sure I don't drink the whole batch too quickly. It's pretty potent at around 11 +%. Dried and dark fruit flavours, some spice (as much the special B and yeast as the small amount of coriander we put in), touch of candied orange peel and light warming alcohol.


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## manticle (10/9/12)

Well this might be the penultimate update rather than the promised update once and for all.

The beer itself is delicious and the sweetness from the carb sugar is fading. Dry finish is key to this I think.

However, the beer is still very low carbed, too low really, despite me liking low carb. It needs more spritz. At around 11%, perhaps US05 wasn't the best yeast for reseeding. I may need to get some more 1762 or another yeast capable of high grav and do a quick add and recap. Obviously the drop in sweetness means the 05 still holding on but only just I reckon.

Beautiful flavour, complexity and colour (deep, clear red in the light) but having invested a fair bit of waiting time, I want it to be perfect.


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## black_labb (10/9/12)

I've been following this thread quite a bit but haven't had much to say. I love the Rochefort beers as well and have a cube of something that should be very close to the 8, though it all happens in the fermetaton. 

Keep us posted, I'm sure I'm not the only one reading


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## Vitalstatistix (11/9/12)

black_labb said:


> I've been following this thread quite a bit but haven't had much to say. I love the Rochefort beers as well and have a cube of something that should be very close to the 8, though it all happens in the fermetaton.
> 
> Keep us posted, I'm sure I'm not the only one reading




Speaking of fermentation, here is my cube of the same batch (on left) and another dark strong currently going ape.


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## brettprevans (28/9/12)

Final recipe pls mants.

Im organising my brewing schedule for the next few months.


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## Vitalstatistix (28/9/12)

citymorgue2 said:


> Final recipe pls mants.
> 
> Im organising my brewing schedule for the next few months.



the base recipe is as follows. see the tread for other "highly repeatable" techniques used. Also manticle did some other shit to regain some protein which may have been lost in the extensive protein rest.



BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: 20110910 - ROCHEFORT 10 TRIBUTE
Brewer: Andrew *2
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Belgian Dark Strong Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 71.87 l
Post Boil Volume: 60.32 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 50.00 l 
Bottling Volume: 50.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.093 SG
Estimated Color: 68.1 EBC
Estimated IBU: 22.1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 81.7 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
10.00 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 - 
0.20 kg Rice Hulls (0.0 EBC) Adjunct 2 1.0 % 
15.00 kg Pilsen (Dingemans) (3.2 EBC) Grain 3 72.0 % 
1.25 kg Pale Wheat (Dingemans) (3.2 EBC) Grain 4 6.0 % 
1.00 kg Special B (Dingemans) (290.6 EBC) Grain 5 4.8 % 
0.62 kg Biscuit (Dingemans) (44.3 EBC) Grain 6 3.0 % 
0.50 kg Aromatic Malt (Dingemans) (37.4 EBC) Grain 7 2.4 % 
0.50 kg Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 EBC) Sugar 8 2.4 % 
10.00 g Calcium Chloride (Boil 90.0 mins) Water Agent 9 - 
55.00 g Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [5.30 %] - Boil Hop 10 11.5 IBUs 
55.00 g Styrian Goldings [3.50 %] - Boil 80.0 mi Hop 11 7.6 IBUs 
1.25 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 12 - 
25.00 g Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [5.30 %] - Boil Hop 13 1.8 IBUs 
25.00 g Styrian Goldings [3.50 %] - Boil 10.0 mi Hop 14 1.2 IBUs 
2.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 15 - 
0.20 g Coriander Seed (Boil 10.0 mins) Spice 16 - 
2.0 pkg Belgian Abbey II (Wyeast Labs #1762) [12 Yeast 17 - 
1.75 kg Candi Sugar, Dark (541.8 EBC) Sugar 18 8.4 % 


Mash Schedule: HERMS - ROCHEFORT 10 TRIBUTE Stepped mash
Total Grain Weight: 20.82 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time 
Step Add 46.44 l of water at 61.4 C 55.0 C 5 min 
Step Heat to 62.0 C over 10 min 62.0 C 15 min 
Step Heat to 68.0 C over 6 min 68.0 C 45 min 
Step Heat to 72.0 C over 4 min 72.0 C 10 min 
Step Heat to 78.0 C over 6 min 78.0 C 10 min 

Sparge: Fly sparge with 49.04 l water at 75.6 C
Notes:
------


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## goom (16/10/12)

Vitalstatistix said:


> the base recipe is as follows. see the tread for other "highly repeatable" techniques used. Also manticle did some other shit to regain some protein which may have been lost in the extensive protein rest.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am very sorry for you all, but your recipes are not correct.
Here is my recipe I used.
The yeast is from a botlle of Rochefort 10
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
BrouwVisie Receptrapport 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Basis------------------------------------------------------------------
Naam recept : GOOMs Rochefort 10
Kenmerk : tripel
Brouwdatum : 29-1-2011
Biertype : Quadrupel
Aantal liters : 16
Gewenst begin SG : 1095 (9,8 Vol% alc.)
Brouwzaalrendement : 60.0%

Algemeen---------------------------------------------------------------
Totaal brouwwater : 31,20 liter
Maischdikte : 2,50 l/kg
Maischwater : 17,00 liter
Spoelwater : 14,20 liter
Kooktijd : 90 minuten
Berekende kleur : 102 EBC(Brouwvisie)
Berekende bitterheid : 27 EBU(Glenn Tinseth)

Mout storting----------------------------------------------------------
Pilsmout 3 EBC 69,3 % 5567 gr 3 EBC 
Caramunich 11,9 % 954 gr 123 EBC 
Special B 3,5 % 278 gr 391 EBC 
Rietsuiker 15,3 % 1233 gr 6 EBC 

Massa hop--------------------------------------------------------------
Target 12,5 % 18 gr 90 Min. 23 EBU 
Styrian Golding (Sl3,8 %oveni9 gra) 15 Min. 2 EBU 
Hallertau Hersbrck4,0 %er 9 gr 15 Min. 2 EBU 

Kruiden----------------------------------------------------------------
Koriander 2 gr 10 Min. 

Gist-------------------------------------------------------------------
Gistsoort : 1762 Belgian Abbey II
Gist toegevoegd als : Giststarter
Volume : 0 ml
Beluchtingstijd : 0 uur
Temperatuur : 0C

Opmerkingen : sg van 1095 naar 1024

Maisschema-------------------------------------------------------------
Maisschema naam: Algemeen Maischschema
Stap 1: 55C 10 Min. 2,5 l/kg
Stap 2: 62C 40 Min. 2,5 l/kg
Stap 3: 72C 30 Min. 2,5 l/kg
Stap 4: 78C 5 Min. 2,5 l/kg


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## tiprya (16/10/12)

Thanks for adding.

I looked up that Rietsuiker is sugar cane.

I assume from your comments that this recipe has gotten pretty close to the original? It looks simple which is a good start.


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## brettprevans (16/10/12)

goom said:


> I am very sorry for you all, but your recipes are not correct.
> Here is my recipe I used.
> The yeast is from a botlle of Rochefort 10
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ...


Unless u work at the brewery you can hardly 'correct' us. Your interpritation isnt all that differant from the other versions on tgis and the other thread. Although i doubt rochfort uses target hops unless they have changed since Stan Hieronymus wrote Brew Like a Monk.anks for your input though

For those not wanting to translate the recipe above, it appears to be
Pils
Caramunich3
SpecialB
Cane sugar

Doesnt stipulate what type of cane sugars, but BLaM says white and dark sugars, wheat starch, caramel.


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## Vitalstatistix (16/10/12)

goom said:


> I am very sorry for you all, but your recipes are not correct.



Thanks for feeling VERY sorry for us silly home-brewers having a bit of a go at trying to brew something a bit like one of our favourite beers as a bit of fun. :unsure: 

whatever dude...


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## WarmBeer (16/10/12)

Vitalstatistix said:


> Thanks for feeling VERY sorry for us silly home-brewers having a bit of a go at trying to brew something a bit like one of our favourite beers as a bit of fun. :unsure:
> 
> whatever dude...


Gotta agree with goom on this one, your Brouwdatum was overly sparged, and your Gistsoort Maischschema was all Bitterheid Step Aantal.


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## black_labb (16/10/12)

goom said:


> I am very sorry for you all, but your recipes are not correct.
> Here is my recipe I used.
> The yeast is from a botlle of Rochefort 10
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ...




And while we are being critical I don't trust the recipe very much based on the FG in your recipe is supposedly 1024. I'd be looking for much closer to 1010.


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## bum (16/10/12)

English is fairly obviously his second language, guys. Lower them hackles a touch.


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## stuart13 (16/10/12)

bum said:


> English is fairly obviously his second language, guys. Lower them hackles a touch.


This from the master of shooting from the hip - hilarious...


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## bum (16/10/12)

I don't think you know what "shooting from the hip" means. That isn't what anyone here is doing. I think the body part idiom you're after is "knee-jerk reaction".


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## digger (17/10/12)

black_labb said:


> And while we are being critical I don't trust the recipe very much based on the FG in your recipe is supposedly 1024. I'd be looking for much closer to 1010.



It is indeed a couple of percent ABV lower than the real deal. The ultimate guide for this would be Brew Like A Monk if you're trying to completely clone it. Although I'm not sure how close it actually comes.


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## Norcs (19/3/14)

Rather than start a new topic thought I might just add onto this old one.

I have had a go at a version of this but have had a few issues and have a few questions so hoping I might get some help.

The brew had a OG of 1.101 and finished up at 1.018 which was in the ballpark of what I expected (using WY1762 and adding simple sugars and belgian candi syrup through primary), however had a problem with a small tear in my BIAB bag and this allowed a small but not insignificant amount of grain into the boil.

So I have to main issues firstly to try and minimize the amount of tannin in the brew (looking to use polyclar) and second looking to add some yeast at bottling as I think the current batch would have been spent (brew has spent a long time at fermenting temps and and a fair while at lagering temps), not sure if it make any difference but I am bottling in 750ml belgian bottles with plastic corks and cages.

I have no idea when to add the polyclar in this situation and how to add the yeast (and how much) for bottling, for the record the fermenting vessel is a cube and I dont have/use a bottling bucket as I normally keg or just bottle straight from the fermenter and use carb drops.


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## manticle (16/2/16)

Follow up to this.
I had 5 bottles left of the last incarnation, kindly kept for me to age by vitalstatistix. When I moved interstate he gave them to me. I left him with one, drank 2 to celebrate my new house in hobart (what else do you do in an unfurnished house in Hobart in July?) and kept 2 for special occasions.

Well the first 2 were magnificent. 2 years in the bottle and if they weren't r10 clones, they were better. That's a big call from me but I stand by it.

Of the two left, a small fridge accident led to the caps being loosened. I knocked one back into place for Ron and opened the other for quality control purposes. Yep, gorgeous.
Age makes this wonderful, 11 odd % alc hardly tasted, dark fruits, spice, everything expected and nothing not.
Better get cracking on the next.


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## kevo (16/2/16)

Glad to hear the hard work and patience paid off.

I'm kind of torn on these beers - they need so much care and attention to create and then patience and restraint! 

Btw - I wonder if this thread is cursed... Nearly every contributor has been banned!!!

Kev


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## manticle (26/3/16)

Making a version of this again today.
I want to drink it now.


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## Alex.Tas (21/4/16)

I had a taste of the batch you helped me design late last year. Its been in the Lark whiskey cask for 4 months now. its tasting great, but needs a bit longer on the oak i think. You will need to come by for a taste yest/QC.


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## manticle (21/4/16)

What a wonderful idea.

I've got one fermenting at the moment - age does wonders to this kind of beverage.


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## technobabble66 (21/4/16)

manticle said:


> Making a version of this again today.
> I want to drink it now.


Share recipe? Please.


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## manticle (21/4/16)

I made it up a tad on the fly but something like:

20L final

7kg ding pils
1 kg best wheat
250 spec b
100 each aromatic and biscuit.

Hallertauer mit and styrians in equal amounts to 27 ibu. 10g of each added to whirlpool.
NC.
Mash schedule - 55/62/69/72/78. 5/10/45/10/10.
Decoction from 62, returned to hit 72, quick decoction added at mash out.

250 dex to boil.
1762 (fresh smack pack) into 4L starter, 2nd pack added when active, then entire active starter (same wort) added to brew.

Start ferment around 17, allow to slowly rise sfter a day or two to 22.
D2 syrup added in stages once gravity drops to sub 1020.

Previous incarnations have needed a high alc tolerant yeast like 1388 in an active starter to finish it off.

Intending to age for 1 year and bottle age for 1 more - will be bottled in all the belgian 330 mL I'm saving from my membership with ibc. Reseed at bottling.

Just added the last of the D2.


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## manticle (25/4/16)

Doing a small version of this next weekend hopefully for a top up brew.
Leaky ******* tap on my fermenter lost me a good 10L of nearly fermented goodness.

Just about the most expensive beer I ever brew, thankfully my rent is cheap.


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## Alex.Tas (27/4/16)

Yup, the dollars quickly stack up. I had a bottle a couple of nights ago of some of the R10 that didn't make its way into the barrel. Delicious. 
Winter evening drinks sorted.
Well actually... Now i have to choose between this and barrel aged RIS.


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## manticle (10/7/16)

Cracked the last bottle of the last batch yesterday.

Must have been in the bottle a bit over 3 years.

Still delicious but there was something that suggested much longer and it would be deteriorating rather than inproving. So many individual factors at work, including storage conditions so if you were ultra careful packaging and storing cold, you could probably push more.

Anyway the recent batch went into CC at the same time and I am convinced (if I wasn't already) that proper ageing makes this nectar of the gods.

Head retention was unbelievable. Decanted a 500mL bottle into a pint glass, then drank from a westmalle tulip while brewing and doing other stuff. Remaining beer was in the pint glass for close to an hour with a small, tight off white head that didn't change. Great stuff, can feel it in your bones after a glass or two.


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