# Custom made square kegs?



## 431neb (10/4/14)

Has anyone ever tried to custom make a rectangular keg to perfectly fit into a keezer? I have the shelf over the compressor in my ice-cream fridge that I use to refrigerate 4 cornies but I would like to utilize the space over the shelf with something that has a larger volume than a 10 litre party keg.

I also wondered about the capacity of a half keg....


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## Black n Tan (10/4/14)

Why not just build a bigger collar so another 19L keg will fit. Cleaning a rectangular keg would be a PITA.


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## Truman42 (10/4/14)

This might not work, just an idea I had after reading your post.
But could you get a couple of these from keg King and attach them to a cube of whatever size would fit into your fridge space (5, 10, 17, 20 litre, square, rectangle, round etc etc.)
Attach some beer line somehow as a dip tube and attach a PRV to the cube lid and make your own custom built keg to suit various fridge spaces etc.

Cubes and canoe drums are easy enough to sanitise and if they can hold hot wort without bursting then I assume they can hold 10 PSI of CO2. You could make various sized plastic kegs to suit your fridge space and would also be a cheap way to get started with kegging if you cant afford a corny.

Anyone see a reason why this wouldnt work that I may have over looked?


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## manticle (10/4/14)

I'd be cautious pressurising a cube without knowing what its actual rating is.
I know some people dispense real ale from them but that is very low carbonation.

You can possibly find out their pressure rating from somewhere - my confidence in them as a replacement for a keg would be pretty low.


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## 431neb (10/4/14)

Thanks for the replies. 

I was hoping for a square stainless pressure vessel off the shelf but knew that if it existed the likelihood of if being approximately the right size were low. I wonder if one could be fabricated cheaply that would be nice enough to clean and sanitise effectively?

On the topic if a collar, there is a number if reasons not to that i won't bore you with. 

I too thought about a plastic vessel combined with a very low pressure blow off valve (or two because that could be bloody messy) but have not investigated. 

I'll probably just opt for two little kegs bringing the total to 4 x 19 l kegs and 2 x 10 l kegs. Pity as I'm sure a rectangular vessel would fit 50 odd litres.


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## benno1973 (10/4/14)

I imagine that a cylinder would evenly distribute the pressure across the entire circumference. A square pressurised vessel would result in uneven pressure in the corners, and therefore it'd be less able to handle higher pressures.

You could try one of those collapsable bladders if you're happy to have a real ale sitting on the hump - I think they are square?


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## hsb (10/4/14)

Custom-made circular freezers might be a better bet, with a honeycomb grid inside for cornies.


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## 431neb (11/4/14)

hsb said:


> Custom-made circular freezers might be a better bet, with a honeycomb grid inside for cornies.
> 
> Damn these square fridges!
> 
> ...


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## mash head (11/4/14)

Pascals law relates to any pressure vessel, square or not. You would get equal pressure at every point. The only problem is the square is not as strong as the circle, unless made out of very heavy walled material a square or rectangle would try to become a circular shape when pressure is applied.


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## hsb (11/4/14)

It's a big ask that would surely cost more than a bigger/better dimensioned freezer? I have a bought new freezer that cost something like $300 that holds 6 cornies with ease, no hump inside.
It did require a collar but that just gave me somewhere to attach the taps and working space for hops, slants etc. and took all of $20/1 hour to make.

Don't square the circle!


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## S.E (11/4/14)

431neb said:


> Has anyone ever tried to custom make a rectangular keg to perfectly fit into a keezer? I have the shelf over the compressor in my ice-cream fridge that I use to refrigerate 4 cornies but I would like to utilize the space over the shelf with something that has a larger volume than a 10 litre party keg.
> 
> I also wondered about the capacity of a half keg....


What size is the space you are trying to utilize?

I think what Truman was suggesting may work for what you are after but you would need to place the cube in a strong box to retain the square shape. If the cube was placed in a tight confined space without suitable support it could damage your keezer. Think of the cube as a bicycle tube and the box as the tyre. 
I don’t know the pressure rating of cubes but I have tried a simple little experiment by pumping up a 15/17L cube full of water to see what sort of pressure my real ale cubes were holding.

I drilled a hole in an old cap and inserted a bicycle valve cut from an old tube leaving enough rubber to seal the hole when I pulled up firmly on it, then I pumped it up until it looked about as swollen as the maximum I have primed and allowed a cube of ale swell to. I was surprised to see that the (uncalibrated) gauge on the bicycle pump was reading 22psi.

I would suggest experimenting by first making a strong tight fitting plywood box (I don’t think it would need a top/lid) and slipping the cube into it. As an alternative to truman’s dip tube idea you could drill a hole in the box to allow a tap or something to be fitted to the bung hole after the cube has been put in the box.

If it works well then perhaps try having a stainless steel box made and see how that goes.

Having said all that, I think it would be better in the long run to get a bigger keezer and more kegs if you need them.

Cheers
Sean


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## Camo6 (11/4/14)

Could you modify a stainless jerry can? I don't know what they're pressure rated too but they're designed to carry fuel in high ambient temps and rough conditions. About the same volume as a corny too.


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## S.E (11/4/14)

Camo6 said:


> Could you modify a stainless jerry can? I don't know what they're pressure rated too but they're designed to carry fuel in high ambient temps and rough conditions. About the same volume as a corny too.


I may be wrong but if I understand the OP correctly I think he only wants to utilize a small currently wasted space in his keezer.

Depends what size that space is but a jerry can will probably be too big. Cubes come in several different shapes and sizes so should be easier to choose one that fits. He wants something bigger than a 10L party keg but how much bigger?

Cheers


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## Camo6 (11/4/14)

S.E said:


> I may be wrong but if I understand the OP correctly I think he only wants to utilize a small currently wasted space in his keezer.
> 
> Depends what size that space is but a jerry can will probably be too big. Cubes come in several different shapes and sizes so should be easier to choose one that fits. He wants something bigger than a 10L party keg but how much bigger?
> 
> Cheers


Good point. What are the dimensions 431neb? If width was ok you could always cut a jerry down and tig a new top on it. The welds would need.to be sanitary though. Might not be worth the effort or expense though. My first keezer lasted two months before dying.


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## Weizguy (12/4/14)

S.E said:


> What size is the space you are trying to utilize?
> 
> I think what Truman was suggesting may work for what you are after but you would need to place the cube in a strong box to retain the square shape. If the cube was placed in a tight confined space without suitable support it could damage your keezer. Think of the cube as a bicycle tube and the box as the tyre.
> I don’t know the pressure rating of cubes but I have tried a simple little experiment by pumping up a 15/17L cube full of water to see what sort of pressure my real ale cubes were holding.
> ...


Just a thought from me. If you make a plywood box, I'd wrap some fibreglass packing straps around it to ensure the box doesn't expand, with the jerry can pressure.

Pressure can get quite high. I have made a no-chilled cube into a no-chill and leaky sphere (with a handle) before.


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## mojonojo (12/4/14)

Grolch used to have 15 odd liter square kegs in europe about a decade ago for the restaurant market.


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## 431neb (12/4/14)

Sorry people , been slack.

The size is 490 x 340 x 340 high.

What about something like this with the appropriate mods? Maybe this manufacturer could advise?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/25-LTR-STAINLESS-STEEL-MARINE-BOAT-OR-AUTO-FUEL-TANK-COMPACT-WITH-HANDLE-/190582696030

Too rich for me. If there was something cheap that could be repurposed with a few fittings… I even looked at the larger ATV pressure sprayers.


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## wynnum1 (13/4/14)

stainless fuel tank for a boat.


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## geneabovill (13/4/14)

I reckon yer better off NOT trying to fit a square keg in a round hole. 








Couldn't resist.


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## MHB (13/4/14)

I remember having nearly this exact conversation with some brewers about 20 years ago, they were looking to manufacture a Square Keg, it never got off the ground.

The main problem is that a flat moves quite a lot when you apply pressure, the thinner the material is (and relatively cheap) the more it flexes, to the point where it starts to pull its self apart at the joints
Two solutions - 1/ make it thick enough, price goes up, it gets too heavy. 2/ Rib the surface so it is reinforced by the shape (like corrugated iron roofing sheets), cost of manufacture goes up and its a right bastard fitting the ends.

Net result was it was cheaper to buy second hand Corny kegs and invest the money in a fridge that will do the job.
Mark


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## 431neb (19/4/14)

The pressure that a corny keg will withstand is pretty impressive. I've had mine up to 400 kpa and the safety valve hasn't blown on any if them. 

If a square keg was fitted with a safety valve that was approximately 150 kpa at its max then the engineering of the keg could be significantly reduced whilst still suiting it's purpose.


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## SmallFry (3/5/14)

I wonder if this might suit your requirements?

http://www.brewingtools.com/

Its called a Beer Box. Don't know much about it, but saw it advertised in the latest BYO.


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## 431neb (5/5/14)

SmallFry! Thank-you. Looks like there are some creative solutions available. I'll be hunting for an appropriate container and over pressure valve in order to emulate this idea. Even if it simply takes over the job of the one keg that supplies cold water to my font.


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## TheWiggman (6/5/14)

As Mark said, making a stainless vessel that could handle dispensing pressures isn't rocket science but it will cost you. Thick stainless (say 6mm) could be used comfortably for a vessel of 10-15l size. It most certainly won't be 'rated' as such will suffice for a home unit provided you're sensible with design (i.e. install a pressure relief, don't charge it up to 200 kPa etc).

If you _do_ want it to adhere to standards, then unless you have wads of cash at your disposal I wouldn't recommend thinking about it any further.


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## S.E (6/5/14)

431neb said:


> Even if it simply takes over the job of the one keg that supplies cold water to my font.


Surely that’s the answer right there?

Couldn’t you just use an unpressurised container (cube, bucket or whatever fits in the space) of water, then pump and return it through your font with a little brown pump or whatever?

Then you could use the “one keg that supplies cold water to your font” for beer.

Cheers Sean


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## Wigarus (7/5/14)

What about trying to find a square plastic weed sprayer and turning it into a keg? 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/20L-PRESSURE-BACKPACK-WATER-SPRAYER-GARDEN-WEEDS-KILLER-/200942033163?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item2ec914190b&_uhb=1

Something like that would be able to handle the pressure no doubt, not sure on the food grade side of things though.


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## hotmelt (15/5/14)

This is close to the size you're after.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/STAINLESS-STEEL-WATER-TANK-/321402386444?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item4ad513380c
Could be a bit of a drive though.


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