# Colonial Kolsch Attempt



## hughman666 (14/11/06)

hi all,

thought i would post results of my first kolsch:

Weyermann Pils - 2.75kg
Joe White wheat - 550g
Weyermann CaraPils - 275g
Joe White export pils - 1.925kg

mashed this one for 60 mins at 67c - single step mash. lost 1 degree over 60 minutes.

90 minute boil

NZ Hallertau up front at 60 mins - 8g
20g tettnang off boil

OG 1047
FG 1010

fermented:
7 days primary @ 14c
8 days secondary @ 14c

Notes:

1. wanted to use Nelson Sauvin in the off-boil but I couldn't source any in Perth and I had left it until the last minute so had to substitute for what I had handy (tettnang). Have made note to order NS hops from Ross this week for attempt #2

2. I kegged this tonight and had a preview taste. very mellow, slightly fruity. very (read extremely) light in colour, the lightest I have brewed yet. I'm looking forward to a proper taste on Friday, although I will leave it until next weekend before i hit it proper :chug: 

3. The one thing I have learnt from this is that I don't have to hop the hell out of my beers. using only a small amount of hops really brought out the flavour of the grain rather than killing it (i can't normally taste much but bitterness at the kegging stage). i'm thinking that overhopping has been one of my problems in the past (except for APA's).

will post a pic once it's in the glass....

cheers!


----------



## Ash in Perth (14/11/06)

sounds good mate, which yeast did you use?


----------



## Randall the Enamel Animal (14/11/06)

I was going to ask the same thing!


----------



## hughman666 (14/11/06)

haha trust me to forget the important bit!

used us-56 because this brew was very last minute due to unforeseen travel around at the same time. thought i would use this, seeing as the kolsch is an ale of sorts.

noticed a LOT of shit at the bottom of the primary and it fermented out reasonably quick - mostly all gone in primary with a final drop in FG during secondary.

any other yeasts you would recommend - i'm yet to venture into liquid yeasts at this stage....


----------



## Randall the Enamel Animal (14/11/06)

I might put a few thoughts together on Kolsch brewing if you guys are interested. Done about a hundred of them now and they're tricky little buggers. Worth persisting with though.

Set up a keg of Kolsch today at Leeuwin Estate for a wine travel symposium. Poured one off to check the rig, working fine, can't let it go to waste though, so down the hatch. Sunny day, nice and warm, already punched out a brew of wit earlier on, so I'll just check to see if it's still pouring OK. Better to be absolutely sure just once more... 

A great warm weather quaffing style.


----------



## Ash in Perth (14/11/06)

It seems like there isnt too much that cant be brewed with this yeast. I have never used it at those temps, let us know what its like when its finished!

Edit: Sounds good Dean, its definetly a style I'll be trying some time.


----------



## hughman666 (14/11/06)

Ash in Perth said:


> It seems like there isnt too much that cant be brewed with this yeast. I have never used it at those temps, let us know what its like when its finished!



i know, i was a little concerned that it wouldn't take off but it seemed to be fine, although it was 16c when i pitched and took 24 hrs to bring down to 14c where kept it level for 2 weeks.

will report back more once i've tried it


----------



## hughman666 (14/11/06)

Randall the Enamel Animal said:


> Better to be absolutely sure just once more...



that's what i call quality control!


----------



## Kai (14/11/06)

Ash in Perth said:


> It seems like there isnt too much that cant be brewed with this yeast.



You can brew anything with it, and for most beers you can brew the same better with a different yeast.

In my humble opinion, of course.


----------



## hughman666 (19/11/06)

knocked back a couple of these last night and they have improved over the week, although a little disappointed with the clarity (or lack thereof). it's not a major issue but i wanted to see it nice and clear by this stage.

so i put down kolsch #2 yesterday, same ingedients except this time i used 20g of nelson sauvin in the off-boil (thanks ross!) and S-04 as opposed to US-56. i'm hoping to get better flocculation from this yeast and see more crap drop out of suspension.

also, i think that 14c was probably far too cold, seeing as the kolsch is supposed to be a top-fermented ale, so i've pitched the S-04 at 20c and will keep it at that temp for both primary & secondary.

have had half a thought about dry hopping another 15g of nelson sauvin in secondary but not sure - will probably wait until racking to secondary and will see how the aroma is at that point.

it's only 10:45 here at the moment so this afternoon i'll pour one off and post a pic.


----------



## Aaron (19/11/06)

Kai said:


> Ash in Perth said:
> 
> 
> > It seems like there isnt too much that cant be brewed with this yeast.
> ...


Couldn't agree more. I have never had a fresh Kolsch off the tap in Koln but I have had an imported one in the bottle. Yo couldn't come close to that flavour using us56. There is that special winy, fruity flavour that the Kolsch yeast imparts on the beer. If you are trying to make something that fits bjcp guidelines us56 would come close. I find a lot of diacetyl in most us56 beers I have tried too. That has no place in Kolsch.

I would stay away from the Nelson Sauvin if you want something that is going to come close to the real thing. It is a nice hop but I can't see it in a kolsch. Then again if you are not going for a genuine Kolsch flavour go for it.


----------



## Weizguy (19/11/06)

FWIW,

I think that the S-04 will give you more diacetyl than the US-56.

I find the S-04 punches out a distinct flavour profile in anything it's used to brew. And, in my opinion, the flavours it produces will make your Kolscher taste like an English bitter, or Golden Ale.

Hey, but if it works 4 U, let us all know.

Beerz
Seth


----------



## warrenlw63 (19/11/06)

Gotta agree with Seth on that one. No offence to anybody who likes it but I reckon S04 is poo with butterscotch overtones and a strange yeasty bite.  

Warren -


----------



## Bobby (19/11/06)

warrenlw63 said:


> No offence to anybody who likes it but I reckon S04 is poo with butterscotch overtones and *a strange yeasty bite*.
> 
> Warren -



That is why i dont like it at all.


----------



## hughman666 (19/11/06)

thanks for the feedback guys. the reason i'm using nelson sauvin is that with this kolsch i am aiming for a similar beer to colonial brewing co's spruiker's challenge which has a distinct nelson sauvin aroma, albeit a very subtle one. spruiker's is a hybrid kolsch style and that's what i'm aiming for, rather than a straight-down-the-line rendition.

as for the yeast, well it's trial and error i guess and i will look at perhaps using WYeast 2565 on my next journey, but will see how this one pans out, as it's a cheap dried yeast which was easy to source at the time.

here's a pic of what it looked like a few minutes ago (crap photographic skills make it look darker than it is...), pretty cloudy but bloody tasty - best beer to date.





give it another week and it should have cleared considerably...


----------



## Randall the Enamel Animal (19/11/06)

I'm a fan of 1056/001/US56 for this style BUT, there are issues. 

This strain does not flocculate. It will settle out, but in this beer (I think it’s the wheat component), it will remain firmly in suspension and must be filtered out. This strain produces little diacetyl during ferment and scavenges what is there like nothing else. Look at your hygiene if you’re having diacetyl problems with this strain.

This yeast is very neutral, so look at your hops for fruit characters. Be very careful when using high alpha hops for flavour and aroma because despite what ProMash suggests, you can get a lot of utilization off-boil. In conjunction with the winey tartness, too much finishing hops will easy tip this beer over and it will lose its drinkability. 

The winey character in Kolsch comes from the wheat. It adds a distinct tartness and with the right fruity characters from your hops, it is definitely winey. Go easy on the wheat as too much tartness can destroy this delicate ale in a heartbeat. Less than 10%.

A delicate beer that’s easy to unbalance, so if in doubt, look at your recipe and halve it…


----------



## hughman666 (19/11/06)

yep i think that the clarity issues i had were from too low a temp during the primary - 14c was probably pushing it for this style. i'll see how much drops out with the S-04 but if i'm getting a bad result in flavour i'll go back to the us56 at a higher temp around the 20c mark. hygiene has never been an issue as i am meticulous in this area so i can only put it down to the temp being too low and not dropping enough out.

however having said that, if S-04 gives better clarity and doesn't negatively impact the flavour, i'll stick with it.

just had #3 of this baby for the afternoon and by jove it is a nice drop :chug:


----------



## Ross (19/11/06)

Randall the Enamel Animal said:


> I'm a fan of 1056/001/US56 for this style BUT, there are issues.
> 
> This strain does not flocculate. It will settle out, but in this beer (I think its the wheat component), it will remain firmly in suspension and must be filtered out. This strain produces little diacetyl during ferment and scavenges what is there like nothing else. Look at your hygiene if youre having diacetyl problems with this strain.
> 
> ...



I agree Randall - i brew with US56 all the time & never had a diaceytl issue EVER.
I've also tasted some great Kolsch made with it that has all the winey charater & fruity notes associated with a good Kolsch. I'm sure a true Kolsch yeast would give you the edge, but don't for 1 minute doubt that US56 isn't up to the task, because it is...

cheers Ross


----------



## barfridge (19/11/06)

If you want to use a dry yeast, why not use K-97? This is commonly thought as a wheat yeast, but it a german ale strain, and I think you'll find the 'K' stands for kolsch.


----------



## hughman666 (19/11/06)

this thread is the reason why i use this forum - a lot of different opinions and some great advice. it looks like i was presumptiuous in using the S-04 rather than looking at clarity issues elsewhere than the yeast.

i am now committed to trying again with the us56 in a better temp range (~20c), and i may look at introducing filtration of some sort - any ideas on this area would be greatly appreciated....


----------



## Kai (19/11/06)

Ross said:


> I agree Randall - i brew with US56 all the time & never had a diaceytl issue EVER.
> I've also tasted some great Kolsch made with it that has all the winey charater & fruity notes associated with a good Kolsch. I'm sure a true Kolsch yeast would give you the edge, but don't for 1 minute doubt that US56 isn't up to the task, because it is...



How do you get the winey character in the koelsch from this yeast while avoiding it in other beers?


----------



## hughman666 (19/11/06)

i think the winey character comes from the off-boil nelson sauvin, at least, that's why i'm using it....


----------



## wee stu (19/11/06)

hughman666 said:


> yep i think that the clarity issues i had were from too low a temp during the primary - 14c was probably pushing it for this style.



I think 14c is pushing it for your *chosen * yeast, not for the style per se. Traditional kolsch yeasts, though top fermenting, apparently like it cool. Maybe one of the wyeast or white labs kolsceh, alt or european ale yeasts might perfom better in this style? 

Kolsch, still very much an enigma to this diminutive brewer <_< .


----------



## Ross (19/11/06)

Kai said:


> How do you get the winey character in the koelsch from this yeast while avoiding it in other beers?



From your choice of malts & hops...

I have never made a Kolsch, but I've tasted plenty, & as I said, an excellent one not long ago made from US56.... If you don't want to use it don't - but saying it can't make a good Kolsch is incorrect. 

cheers Ross


----------



## Aaron (19/11/06)

Seems like we are becoming like the Americans and trying to use "calale" in everything. If you want to use these American yeasts go for it. You will probably produce something that would score well according to BJCP criteria. You won't produce a Kolsch that is accurate to the real thing.

We can do whatever we want with beer and maybe it's good. this doesn't make it accurate.

If we want to get technical none of us can make a Kolcsh because, as far as I am aware, none of us are in Koln.


----------



## Ross (19/11/06)

Aaron,

All the articles i've read on making Kolsch have stated, that most good high-attenuating Ale yeasts can be used to make a decent Klsch-style beer, including US strains.
I'm not arguing that the specific Kolsch strain isn't going to give you the best result, all other things being equal; but to dispell all other yeasts as no good, is incorrect.

Anyway, guess we'll beg to differ on this one  

cheers Ross


----------



## PostModern (19/11/06)

My second ever AG was a Koelsch-style beer fermented with US-56. While it was a great beer (depsite low primary fermentation and extended lagering, it was cloudy), it was nothing compared to the Koelsches fermented with Koelsch yeast strains by Doc and Duff that I've tasted in NSW Xmas cases. With respect, Ross, those articles you've read are probably from the US?


----------



## Kai (19/11/06)

Ross said:


> Kai said:
> 
> 
> > How do you get the winey character in the koelsch from this yeast while avoiding it in other beers?
> ...




Hops I can understand as far as perhaps some nelson sauvin if you want to slip some of that white grape flavour in, but surely purely the choice of malt can't bring about those flavours?


----------



## Ross (19/11/06)

PostModern said:


> My second ever AG was a Koelsch-style beer fermented with US-56. While it was a great beer (depsite low primary fermentation and extended lagering, it was cloudy), it was nothing compared to the Koelsches fermented with Koelsch yeast strains by Doc and Duff that I've tasted in NSW Xmas cases. With respect, Ross, those articles you've read are probably from the US?



Here's one Link

cheers Ross


----------



## PostModern (19/11/06)

Ross said:


> PostModern said:
> 
> 
> > My second ever AG was a Koelsch-style beer fermented with US-56. While it was a great beer (depsite low primary fermentation and extended lagering, it was cloudy), it was nothing compared to the Koelsches fermented with Koelsch yeast strains by Doc and Duff that I've tasted in NSW Xmas cases. With respect, Ross, those articles you've read are probably from the US?
> ...





> *Yeast* Most good high-attenuating Ale yeasts can be used to make a decent Klsch-style beer. Wyeast 2565 is specifically designed for Klsch-style beer, as is White Labs Klsch (reportedly from PJ Frh). 1007 German Ale is another good choice, and even 1338 European Ale or Chico 1056 can be used. Basically anything that can ferment very clean at room temperatures strong esters are verboten in Klsch and can attenuate in the 80-85% range.



Perhaps it was my skill to blame


----------



## hughman666 (20/11/06)

> Basically anything that can ferment very clean at room temperatures



as i mentioned before, i think it was the 14c primary temp which was to blame. attempt #2 is currently sitting at 21c and is bubbling away like krakatoa

will post a comparative pic when it's ready in a fortnight...


----------



## DJR (18/12/06)

My 2c to a slightly old thread

US56 might sort of give you a decent result but you would have to create VERY ideal conditions for it - up the wheat component and use some hops such as NS to give the winey profile. It will attenuate to the right level with probably a single infusion at 66C. You want to add some esters for the winey profile which Chico isn't really known for so you may find underpitching or pitching slightly cold would create yeast growth and throw a bit of extra esters. Doesn't add sulfur too which is an important background flavour in some Kolsch, although a cold ferment, say 13-15C with US56 might stress it out a bit and create a bit of sulfur. Watch out for diacetyl at those temps though...

If you are thinking of attempting a Kolsch, use the right yeast from the outset, WLP029, Wyeast 2565 Kolsch, WLP036 Alt or Wyeast 1007 German Ale, or any other Kolsch/Alt/German ale yeast. You will have to do MUCH less work to make the beer taste correct. WLP029 is a great yeast and works fine at 19C, super clean even at those temps. K-97 may work too and i may do a small batch experiment vs WLP029 to prove/disprove that theory at some point.

One of these days i'm going to save up a lot of money and buy the Weihenstephan Kolsch strain...

Edit: just realised that the Weihenstephan 165 Alt/Kolsch strain shares numbers with the Wyeast 2565 - so i suspect that that yeast is from Weihenstephan. There is supposedly another yeast strain, W177 for Kolsch. Doesn't really matter since there are 5 widely available directly pitchable, already propogated strains out there...


----------



## Stuster (18/12/06)

Again guessing from the numbers, do you think K97 could be that Kolsch 177 strain, DJR?


----------



## DJR (18/12/06)

Stuster said:


> Again guessing from the numbers, do you think K97 could be that Kolsch 177 strain, DJR?



Who knows. It would be nice if it was  Shame that i already pitched my Kolsch this morning, could have run the K97 test!

There is some speculation that the K97 is from Zum Uerige which would make it the same as WLP320 American Wheat which is another kolsch/alt strain. That or German Ale 1007 as the equivalent. But probably not 177, not that it really matters, there's enough choices out there to make decent Kolsch...


----------



## DJR (19/12/06)

FYI Wyeast have told me that 2565 is NOT weihenstephan 165. I emailed them yesterday and they denied it. Must be something else.

Who's up for getting 500mL of Weihenstephan 177 direct from the yeastbank themselves for the low, low price of about $640 including courier delivery? :lol: 

At that rate, split into 20 25mL vials each one would cost about $32 :lol:


----------



## Lindsay Dive (27/12/06)

Merry everything to all.

I recently made a Kolsch using the Wyeast 2565 and have found that I have the cloudiest creation of all time. I noticed at the time of fermentation that this yeast behaved in a very similar manner to a real top cropping wheat yeast similar to WLP300.
Wyeast website claims that this yeast (2565) is is a poor flocculator and the beer needs filtering to produce a bright beer or 'as they say' time will produce a clear beer.
In the past I have used the Whitelabs WLP029 with fantastic results.
Does this yeast clear at all with time or do I tell my drinking friends it's a weird tasting Hefe?
I will not use 2565 agian!

Regards,
Lindsay.


----------



## razz (27/12/06)

Lindsay Drive. I concur on the yeast taking time to floc out. I've used 2565 in 2 ales and they lagered for approx 3 months, but, they turned out crystal clear. A side note for DJR, I fermented these at 63 degrees and they turned out great !


----------

