# Brew Stand



## roach (15/10/04)

i drag the components of my set up out of the tool shed every time i want to brew and assemble them to sit on assorted outdoor furniture for brew day(eg 2morow for a lawnmower AG for summer). 

i really need to build a two/three tier setup. Would love to have something like Andrew's ss work of art, batz's slotted angle iron frame, Chillers nice set up, Ashers plug n play etc etc.

But I am wanting something that is functional and cheap. What is people's view about a cost effective and easy to assemble 2/3 tier system. yes there are heaps of sites on the net, but would value ahb 'ers view about getting something together relatively easily.

cheer
roach


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## siiren (16/10/04)

Roach, I am in the same boat as you.
I have seen some old shelving - like what Batz is using at Paramount Browns on Cavan Rd. I haven't asked a price yet as I need to borrow a ute or a car with towbar so haven't been too bothered moving gear around. Maybe give them a call or drop on down. It's in pretty good condition. You could probably get the rest of what you need for a good price too.


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## bonk (16/10/04)

hi roach, my ramblings on the subject. 
what kind of chiller do you have? imersion or cfc? as that might help decide what size stand you go for. if you have a cfc, then you will need a large drop to use a gravity feed setup (unless you have a pump). 

a cheap option is to use the ground as your third tier and you only then need to make a 2 tier set up (gravity fed) if i got it right you use an immersion heater to get the boil going, so you might want the boiler at around waist height so you can 'safely' use the element.

not to sure if it is still happening, kmart up this way, had 5 tier angle iron shelving systems going for about $15 (50kg per shelf), maybe check it out, buy 2 and chop them into the lengths you need.\

.... more rambling... (sorry, to many hb's)

if you have seen the 'plastic breweries' on the web, one had some shelving bolted to the wall. might be worth a look if thats possible. be very easy to build (with strong brackets etc) and possibly light on the wallet.

ok, time to pass out now, hope there is something of use in this post.


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## roach (16/10/04)

thanks bonk and siiren. might try paramount browns and check out the kmart set ups

i just bought a cfc from Goliaths, have no pump, so I figure I might have to use the immersion cooler until I get one.

thanks guys

roach


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## JasonY (16/10/04)

I picked up an old florists trolley at a garage sale for $20, this serves as the base for my system and its on wheels so draging it out of the shed it nice and easy. Keep your eye out for garage sales or auctions as you can get some nice cheap gear at them.


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## Andrew (16/10/04)

Hi Roach,
I know this is an obvious statement, but whatever you do put wheels on it! Also consider its total height to its width. If you are going the 3 tire gravity route, 60 litres or so of very hot water up above your head has the potential to be nasty if you trip and fall into your rig...

Cheers!


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## roach (16/10/04)

Thanks Andrew. Yeah I'm a bit paranoid about the hot stuff above my head. So I think I'll go the 2 tier and buy a pump or 2 to move stuff around. are the pumps you use doing the job? see if i can scrounge some dexion and bung it on wheels. haven't got a shed, which is a PITA


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## siiren (16/10/04)

Dexion,,, yeah thats the stuff!
couldn't think of it last night!


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## Jazman (16/10/04)

I agree roach i m still building my stands and going 2 tier as i dont like the idea of the hlt being to high


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## big d (16/10/04)

if going three tier build it sound and in time you will not worry <_< about having 75deg water above your head.
i dont give it a second thought these days  
mind you the beauty of a level playing field using a pump removes the need to stand on a ladder which does annoy me as ive fallen of this ladder enough times in the past.  

cheers
big d


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## jayse (17/10/04)

roach said:


> i just bought a cfc from Goliaths, have no pump, so I figure I might have to use the immersion cooler until I get one.


Hi rob,
You don't need a pump to use the chiller they do work fine with just gravity that just means everything does need to be higher, it actually becomes four tier with the fermentor at the bottom(on the ground).

I got my slotted angle iron from paramount browns all up around 30metres for $100. If you buy a whole pack of ten then they come wrapped up with enough nuts and bolts to do the whole job.
They are around 3metre length, it as easy as hacksawing and bolting together and it is very very simple.
Jayse


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## roach (17/10/04)

Thanks Jayse - looks like a trip to paramount browns is in order.


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## roach (17/10/04)

check out the paramount browns web site. maybe i could use an old hospital bed - steel, strong, made to take weight, height adjustable all for $100 - same as dexion. what do people reckon? not different levels that's the only prob.

http://www.paramountbrowns.com.au/d/p/para...&intSOType=3100


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## jgriffin (17/10/04)

Question for people with brew stands - how do you check the water temp in the HLT? Do you all mount thermometers in there?


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## Batz (17/10/04)

I do


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## Kai (17/10/04)

The Paramount Browns site is great! I've never looked at it before.

Cylindro-conical, anyone?

200L black plastic food grade drums "many uses" :lol:


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## jayse (17/10/04)

Those black plastic drums are quite infamous now!


That other bit is a silo kai, even i wouldn't use that much grain  

Jayse


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## Kai (17/10/04)

Yeah I know it's a silo but I assumed some clever dick could turn it into a fermenter. I don't know much about that sort of thing so I guess it might not be possible.

And I feel uneasy just looking at those barrels. I don't think I could use one for beer.


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## roach (19/10/04)

what is the conventional wisdom on what sits at the top in 2 tier systems? More specifically why do some have the HLT at the top and others have the mash tun at the top(eg Asher)?. I have seen both setups with pumps and so interested to know the pros and cons.

I plan on getting a march pump in the b4 xmas, BTW.

cheers
Roach


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## DaveR (20/10/04)

They are selling brand new Fire Extinguishers.

C02

2.0kg, $175.00
3.5kg, $189.00
5.0kg, $199.00

not bad


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## roach (20/10/04)

Yes although you can get a 1.5kg CO2 bottle from Goliaths for $120. And you don't have it upside down like a fire extinguisher(unless you get the spear removed and refill the bottle)


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## JasonY (20/10/04)

I decided to go two tier as I didn't like the look of all that hot stuff up high. I have the mash tun at waist height while the HLT & boiler are at shin height. 

I decided the mash tun should be highest so I can run off using gravity during the sparge while everything else is pumped. If the mash tun is not above the boiler then I guess you have to batch sparge as you will have to pump the runnings out.


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## GMK (20/10/04)

So - u will also be pumping from the kettle into the fermenter as well then.


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## Guest Lurker (20/10/04)

GMK said:


> So - u will also be pumping from the kettle into the fermenter as well then.


 Not if you have a hydraulic boiler liftovator.


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## roach (20/10/04)

GMK - assuming the question is directed at me. yes i intend to pump from the kettle through the CFWC into the fermenter - otherwise i have heard it is verrrrry slooooowwww.


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## sintax69 (20/10/04)

so what pump do you all use for pumping I was thinking about a Idra pump has any one got one of these if so whats it like


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## GMK (21/10/04)

I use an IDRA pump and know of a few others who do as well.
It is a good pump and with the 2m high it is very versatile - can have 12mm inlet and 12mm outlet barbs/pipes.

Very happy with mine.


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## Doc (1/4/05)

Still been giving thought to getting myself built a proper brew stand.
The old bedside drawers I've been using for the last couple of years are really starting to fall apart now.
So I'm sitting at my desk just looking around, staring into space, when I actually focus on what is in front of me. An old 19" rack with the front, sides and back removed. A good solid rack with a top etc. Then bingo. Perfect a 19" rack as a brew stand. Why not. Insert a few shelves. HLT can sit on top, MLT below, and boiler on the bottom. A perfect 3-tier vertical gravity feed brew stand.
I've attached a pic for those not in IT so you know what I'm talking about.
Now to find one I can get at the right price :lol: Would be great if I can score the one I'm looking at. 
We are actually moving a whole bunch of infrastructure to a centralised hosting centre in the next few months which will free up about eighteen 19" racks. I've talked to my buddies in that department to see if they can earmark me one then too.

Beers,
Doc


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## jgriffin (1/4/05)

Sheet Doc, why didn't i think of that before? I actually have 1/2 dozen Compaq racks sitting down at the storage shed waiting for someone to sell them too.... hmm can i justify such an expensive brew stand?


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## Doc (1/4/05)

Good news.
Just talked to the right people, and they have been wanting to get rid of it.
It is all mine for free. They just want it gone.
Just have to score a couple of rack shelves and the assoicated nuts etc and I'm in brewtree heaven (after how I've been doing it up until now  )

Glad I've got you thinking too now John :lol:

Beers,
Doc


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## warrenlw63 (1/4/05)

Nice potential Doc as they say great minds,  

We had a similar rack at work with the phone system and server mounted into it. Used to sit there pondering with my brewer's mentality.

You did well scoring one gratis. :super: :super: 

Isn't it funny how over time we see everything has some form of potential in the brewery. :lol: 

Warren -


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## Tim (1/4/05)

Hmm, now you have me thinking.
I have a set of steel shelves in the shed which i bought from bunnings for like $20. I think they are rated at 50kg per shelf. But they also had bigger one which could hold more weight. 
Im going to look into getting two or three of the super heavy duty ones and bastardising them into a brewstand.


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## Wortgames (1/4/05)

If anyone in Melbourne has 19" racks they want to sell, let me know


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## voota (1/4/05)

I've got 3 stands for sale that require some cutting and welding to turn into a 3 tier. They are new, powder coated and very sturdy. i've already turned one into a 2 tier. Message me if you're interested. Can pick up in Violet Town or Melbourne. Probably asking $75 each, i'll post a pic asap


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## warrenlw63 (1/4/05)

For those of us who can't weld,

Has anybody ever had any experience with Dexion?

They claim each shelf can hold 120kg

http://www.dexion.com.au/www/welcome.cfm

Warren -


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## Boots (1/4/05)

Nice one Doc.

Don't forget to cable manage your hoses properly :lol: You'll be able to buy a rack mount UPS off ebay for cheap so you can still run the HLT / pump in a blackout.  

I've thought about the bolt together shelves before, but my father in law bought a bolt together work bench from stratco last week which had two levels 1 @ foot level, and 1 at waist level, with wooden bench top that is slotted to lock into the metal frame. Not sure how much it cost but I'm pretty sure it could handle a brew setup easily, as it looked much sturdier than the shelving racks I've got in the shed.


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## Doc (1/4/05)

*NOT HAPPY JAN *

Was just clearing it with the building manager and security to get it out on Sunday and a damn *#$(&*#)* backflip.

*#$(*&#$(&*@(*&@$#*

Now got the feelers out on other avenues to score a 19" rack.

Doc


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## BeerIsGood (1/4/05)

warrenlw63 said:


> ...Has anybody ever had any experience with Dexion?
> 
> They claim each shelf can hold 120kg...
> [post="52061"][/post]​



I use Dexion pallet racking (work context), and they seem to be an industry standard for that product. Dexion make good quality stuff, and should easily take rated loads. Don't know about cost, though.

Similar product I just found in Blackwoods catalogue is Hammer Lok by Summit. 12mm MDF shelves, 350kg capacity. Sizes and prices (with my discount, ex. GST) are:
(height x length x depth)
900 x 1140 x 550 = $101.82
1800 x 900 x 600 = $142.57
1800 x 900 x 400 = $103.48
Never heard of Hammer Lok, but cheaper's got to be better... Another option, anyway.


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## Boots (1/4/05)

BeerIsGood - that sounds like the stuff i was talking about.

I reckon it looks the goods for those of us who are HandToolChallenged and are only after a single / 2 level brew stand, and those *real* brewers who are not restricted by the laws of gravity thanks to pumps.


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## Backlane Brewery (1/4/05)

> Similar product I just found in Blackwoods catalogue is Hammer Lok by Summit. 12mm MDF shelves, 350kg capacity.



I have used this shelving system before, and it is tough as. Easy to put together, modular, fairly cheap, widely available at Bunnings etc, only drawbacks are it weighs a ton and the wooden shelving supplied may have issues with your NASA burner.

Website here.


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## Dunkel_Boy (1/4/05)

Not much to contribute to this thread, but the two-tier stands will generally have a pump in there. I think the mash tun on the top is best, where hot water is pumped from the HLT right below, up to the mash tun for doughing in and sparging, etc, then just run off the wort from the mash tun down to the boiler, then down to the fermenter.
The one with the HLT on the top basically means you just have to pump wort from the mash tun to the boiler. I would prefer to pump water, but apparently wort is ok to pump.
I'm going to be making a two-tier soon, and shall be using zee power of electricity to heat everything up... which means I don't need burners/space for burners.
I will have the HLT on the top tier, going down into the mash tun on the first tier, with the boiler on the ground. Nice and simple. I can either put a pump in there and spend $50-$200, or pick up the boiler while it's cooling, or even pick up the mash tun if I'm not going to do a sparge. I'll probably get a mate to help me, in case you're wondering.


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## RobW (1/4/05)

In Melbourne you can get 2nd hand Dexion from One Stop Second Hand Shelving Shop. The address is 3/162 Grange Rd Fairfield. tel: 94999755. I'd call first because the stock changes depending on what's around at the time.


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## warrenlw63 (1/4/05)

Cheers Rob!  

That number's noted. I'll give 'em a call up the track. Sick of sitting my brew kettle on a fairly wobbly wooden shelf.

I want something on castors that I can move around the garage and that won't collapse :super: 

Warren -


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## RobW (1/4/05)

Last time I asked they were selling lengths of about 3 metres for $10 a length, including nuts & bolts.


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## Wobbo (2/4/05)

My 3 tier stand cost a total of $10 from the Canberra Tip. Its an old TV stand from the National Archives. It was already on wheels so I just modified it with some pipe for extra legs that I had laying around in the shed.





Wobbo


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## warrenlw63 (2/4/05)

Hey Wobbo.

What's the white thing on the bottom of your stand when it's not being used in the brewery?

I'd presume it to be a boiler? :blink: 

Warren -


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## Wobbo (2/4/05)

Yeah its an old "Malleys" brand gas copper they used to be used before washing machines. Ive converted it to Natural Gas so never run out of gas.  Holds 55L & comes to boil very quickly. Bought it from an old lady in Melbourne from thre Trading Post.  

Wobbo


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## warrenlw63 (2/4/05)

Nice setup Wobbo  

Is that a Therminator chiller you're using. Very interesting looking devices.

How well does it work? Did you buy it from Northern Brewer?

Warren -


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## jgriffin (2/4/05)

.


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## sosman (2/4/05)

Wobbo said:


> My 3 tier stand cost a total of $10 from the Canberra Tip. Its an old TV stand from the National Archives. It was already on wheels so I just modified it with some pipe for extra legs that I had laying around in the shed.
> 
> View attachment 2189
> 
> [post="52207"][/post]​


How do you change channels?


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## Wortgames (2/4/05)

I wouldn't recommend the hammerlok shelving - it is very thin steel and would probably buckle with the twin influences of weight and heat. Its fine for storage but I wouldn't load it up with hot liquids and hang around 

One approach, if welding is out and you don't have any 19" racks laying around, is the 'vertical plank' - I've seen some quite decent ones using just timber and strong shelf brackets. Build an upside-down T with wheels on the bottom, and then fix shelves at staggered heights on either side of the vertical support. I'm sure this is nothing new but let me know if you want more detail and I'll try and find some pics.


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## Linz (2/4/05)

Ive used dexion racking, but bolted together. There are/were pictures in the gallery. Cost was $70 in total for what I needed.


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## Pumpy (2/4/05)

Roach what ever you do on your brewery do not sacrifice the proffessional look for the sake of cheap ,your missus will hassle you so long as it looke like a heap of crap .


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## Wobbo (3/4/05)

Its a Therninator. Bought it from ibrew in QLD, although should have bought it direct fron the States would have been cheaper....
Works excellent, for a single 23L batch it chills as fast as I can gravity drain fron the boiler - about 6-7min all done. Double that for a double batch. Best investment I ever made.......

Wobbo


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## johnno (3/4/05)

warrenlw63 said:


> For those of us who can't weld,
> 
> Has anybody ever had any experience with Dexion?
> 
> ...


Warren,
Thats pretty much been my choice all along. When I do get around to the stand part. 
I dont have much room so I want something i can leave outside.

cheers
johnno


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## Hoops (3/4/05)

Wobbo said:


> Its a Therninator. Bought it from ibrew in QLD, although should have bought it direct fron the States would have been cheaper....
> Works excellent, for a single 23L batch it chills as fast as I can gravity drain fron the boiler - about 6-7min all done. Double that for a double batch. Best investment I ever made.......
> 
> Wobbo
> [post="52371"][/post]​


Wobbo, how much did it set you back ?


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## johnno (3/4/05)

Hoops said:


> Wobbo said:
> 
> 
> > Its a Therninator. Bought it from ibrew in QLD, although should have bought it direct fron the States would have been cheaper....
> ...


Hoops,
I just emailed ibrew for a quote. 
I went to the Therminator site in the States and the recommended retail is $199. Cosidering they are a very small unit postage wouldn't be too much. 
I want one!!

cheers
johnno


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## Wobbo (5/4/05)

Paid $295 and it included a Thrumometer and postage as well. I believe prices have gone up since and they are now selling them for about $365. Thats why I would be buying one direct from the States, they dont weigh that much - about 5 kg so postage wouldnt be prohibitive.

Wobbo


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## Doc (6/4/05)

Doc said:


> *NOT HAPPY JAN *
> 
> Was just clearing it with the building manager and security to get it out on Sunday and a damn *#$(&*#)* backflip.
> 
> ...




Score
Have now scored a brand new APC full height 19" rack (so comes in the perfect colour, BLACK), and it will be delivered tomorrow to my house, by my work for FREE.
WOOOHOOOOOO
Apparently it has a minor ding and the vendor wouldn't take it back as a return :lol:

Beers,
Doc


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## nonicman (6/4/05)

Spent most of yesterday in a server room, all I could see was 6 beautiful brewing stands in a wonderfully temperature controlled environment.


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## sintax69 (6/4/05)

Will it have its own IP address???

sintax


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## Wortgames (6/4/05)

Some of the diehards in the US have home breweries where every valve, solenoid and temperature sensor has its own IP address

:beerbang:


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## Doc (6/4/05)

sintax69 said:


> Will it have its own IP address???
> 
> sintax
> [post="53158"][/post]​


Maybeeee. If I can get a wireless network card for my old SUN SparcStation then I could do something tricky with it ......... mmmmmmm.....

Doc


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## jgriffin (6/4/05)

re: the whole IP address thing, it's not that crazy. I did a job at a radio station converting all the control gear over from the older serial based PIC devices to newer ethernet connected IP enabled PIC's. It simplified things no end, and was a lot easier to control.


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## Doc (6/4/05)

Wortgames said:


> Some of the diehards in the US have home breweries where every valve, solenoid and temperature sensor has its own IP address
> 
> :beerbang:
> [post="53161"][/post]​


My shed it already wired for ethernet and the temperature of the brauhaus and fermentation freezer are logged to an SQL database every minute.
There is a nice PHP/Web front end to report the temp data too.

I've just recycled an old PII workstation for a media PC in the home theatre room that is working a treat through the projector. If I get bored of that maybe that could be my brew PC. I has a wireless card in it.

Beers,
Doc


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## Doc (7/4/05)

The rack has been delivered and tried out for size.
For an APC rack I was expecting black but colour does not matter, when you consider these things sell for like $4000 and it just cost me $0 delivered to my house.

On the hunt now for a couple of shelves for it and a power strip. Think I may have a good lead on the power strip, but the shelves maybe a bit more difficult. Have located stabalising feet too.

The rack also doubles and an enclousure for 2 1/2 year olds :lol:

Beers,
Doc


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## warrenlw63 (7/4/05)

Nice original form of incarceration Doc. :lol: 

It can double as the naughty boy's room.

Warren -


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## Plastic Man (7/4/05)

Forget the brew stand. The kiddie cage option is great.

I'll have 3 !!!!!!!!!! NOW !!!


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## johnno (7/4/05)

Nice one Doc,
By the way, there is an image of an apparition on the glass of the stand.
Brewing ghosts maybe?? :lol: :lol: 

cheers
johnno


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## Doc (7/4/05)

johnno said:


> Nice one Doc,
> By the way, there is an image of an apparition on the glass of the stand.
> Brewing ghosts maybe?? :lol: :lol:
> 
> ...


Ah Brew God I think :lol:

Doc


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## big d (7/4/05)

looks more like the 05 version of the tardis.
is that wee stu in it coming over for a visit.  

cheers
big d


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## Justin (7/4/05)

Looks good, although doughing in will be a PITA in its current configuration so I don't know if you could work out some shelving system that slides out for dough in then is slid back in. Might have a balancing issue when it's out to the side perhaps. Maybe some pot draw rollers could work and support the weight?

Other than that its a cool stand option. Nice one.

JD


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## roach (7/4/05)

Top stuff Doc - looks a bit high tho. Maybe you could turn it on its side and configure it that way?? Pump stuff around and somehow have the Mashtun or HLT a bit higher


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## Doc (7/4/05)

Justin said:


> Looks good, although doughing in will be a PITA in its current configuration so I don't know if you could work out some shelving system that slides out for dough in then is slid back in. Might have a balancing issue when it's out to the side perhaps. Maybe some pot draw rollers could work and support the weight?



Yeah, that is just a dummy up to make sure everything would fit.
I'll be putting in some rack shelving (when I locate some) that will allow the esky lid to be fully open.
Thinking about using a pump to get water into the HLT via a water filter. Everything will be gravity feed from then on.
I will be putting on stabalising feet also.



roach said:


> Top stuff Doc - looks a bit high tho. Maybe you could turn it on its side and configure it that way?? Pump stuff around and somehow have the Mashtun or HLT a bit higher


It is actually not that much higher than I've been used to with my current setup.


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## Doc (12/4/05)

Scored some more parts for the Brew Rack Conversion today including a "six fan boiler extraction kit".

Still on the lookout for some decent shelves.

Beers,
Doc


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## Gulf Brewery (14/4/05)

Moved this from another thread

Johnno

This is a drawing of my 3 tier stand. I made it so it could be turned on its side into a 2 tier (which it is now).

If anyone wants the drawing in some other format, please PM me.

Cheers
Pedro


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## Gulf Brewery (14/4/05)

Trough Lolly said:


> Nice one Pedro,
> I'm looking for a 3 tier setup too! I suppose the aluminium tread sheet in the floor helps stability as well? Did you need any cross bracing on the HLT section? Does it get a bit wobbly? I suppose I can dyna bolt the sucker to a wall to fix that anyway...
> Cheers,
> TL
> [post="54434"][/post]​



TL

With the welding and steel strength, there is any need to cross bracing. It was designed so all of the burners sit in the frame (no good for NASA burners). The burners I have had legs which I cut off.
The treadsheet was more so that I could store more gear on it when it is packed away. 

Cheers
Pedro


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## Trough Lolly (14/4/05)

No worries Pedro...I didn't know this was a welding job.

I'm tool challenged, I was lucky to get a cordless drill and circular saw last year to knock up the pergola, let alone go anywhere near a welding kit! I'll probably knock something up outta the 350kg rated stands they sell at Bunnings and do a hybrid build based on your and other designs...
Cheers,
TL


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## NRB (14/4/05)

I'd love to see photos Pedro - I might have to construct something similar.


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## Gulf Brewery (14/4/05)

NRB said:


> I'd love to see photos Pedro - I might have to construct something similar.
> [post="54479"][/post]​



Ask and you shall receive  

One pic shows the stand in use as a 2 tier. 
The 2nd pic shows the gear as I store it. If you imagine the top RHS keg to was on the very top of the frame, it is as it was as a 3 tier. 







Edit - PS - Not all brewing equipment is bright and shiny.

Cheers
Pedro


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## Phrak (31/5/06)

Sorry to drag this old topic back from the dead, but Doc, have you got any recent pictures of how your rack turned out?

Tim.


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## domonsura (31/5/06)

I sacrificed a level and didn't bother with a HLT for my kit. I didn't want anything to tall and unstable because of the hot water danger etc. I can actually roll my stand around while it is full without any dramas. Why I'd want to do that exactly I'm not sure.......but last time I was brewing on the back porch and it started raining it was handy to be able to move it 6 feet to stop the sky topping up my brew kettle. 
The brewboy stand.

I'm keen as all hell to see how Doc's stand turned out, I used to sit in the server room where I used to work and wonder about all the great things one could make with a rack. I could have grabbed about 20 of them at one point as they were being replaced, but at the time had nowhere to put them. I reckon the rack is the easiest but hardest part about building a brewery because you have to start deciding where everything has to go before you start building it. Mine has had a couple of mods since I built it, and there are a couple to come to make it a bit better.
C'mon Doc, pictures please? You're going to start a rack revolution.

edit: fixed the bad web link, cheers Tim


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## Phrak (31/5/06)

Domonsura, your link was bad. This one works though:
http://www.domonsura.com/brewboy.html

Tim.


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## MVZOOM (31/5/06)

hMM, I have access to a couple of old 42U comnputer racks....


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## Phrak (31/5/06)

Mike, feel free to drop one off when you're in the area this weekend!   

no, seriously :blink:


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## MVZOOM (31/5/06)

Phrak said:


> Mike, feel free to drop one off when you're in the area this weekend!
> 
> no, seriously :blink:



Well, I'm absolutely serious - I have a slightly bent Ricon one (ex Rabo delivery, would you believe) and a couple of other random comms cabinets. 

Cheers - Mike


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## Phrak (31/5/06)

Let's just take this little discussion offline now, shall we?


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