# Off Topic: Bulk Buy issues



## Darren (25/3/08)

Stuster said:


> I contacted Cryer Malts and they now do bulk buys through Ross.




Yes, that is correct. Like he did with hops Ross has now stopped bulk buys for every state except SA.

The way malt prices and Ross's profits are going it will be cheaper to buy imported beer

cheers

Darren


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## MVZOOM (25/3/08)

Darren said:


> Yes, that is correct. Like he did with hops Ross has now stopped bulk buys for every state except SA.
> 
> The way malt prices and Ross's profits are going it will be cheaper to buy imported beer
> 
> ...



Gezzus Darren, maybe you should throw in the towel, take your bat and go home then.


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## Darren (25/3/08)

MVZOOM,

Hasn't affected me. Lets see how you feel after April 1 and see the new malt prices.

cheers

Darren


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## MVZOOM (25/3/08)

Darren said:


> MVZOOM,
> 
> Hasn't affected me. Lets see how you feel after April 1 and see the new malt prices.
> 
> ...



Cool - no problem - so why comment about it then? Ross' profits have nothing to do with you - especially if you don't have to buy from the bloke.

Cheers - Mike


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## Darren (25/3/08)

MVZOOM said:


> Cool - no problem - so why comment about it then? Ross' profits have nothing to do with you - especially if you don't have to buy from the bloke.
> 
> Cheers - Mike




Hey,

Why, because Ross bagged Grumpys on their forum almost everynight years ago (yes Ross, I remember you). Back then he was a kit and kilo brewer who swore black and blue that kits were the beezneez. Since then he has added another "middleman" to HB which we do not need. Increases in malt prices due to the drought is enough without stopping bulk buys.

cheers

darren


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## chovain (25/3/08)

Darren said:


> Since then he has added another "middleman" to HB which we do not need.



So what happened? No, don't tell me... Let me guess: Ross took to a Cryer sales rep with a bat until he agreed not to deal with anyone else. Is that it? 

It seems more likely Cryer just didn't want to do retail anymore, and Ross has stepped up, like any other big HB store could if they wanted. We *do* need a middleman if the wholesalers won't deal with us.

On topic, and somewhat less hyperbolic, I'd try talking to one of the bigger locals: Chat with Dave, Mel or Pat. I'm sure any one of them would be happy to arrange an order, and will do a good price.


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## MVZOOM (25/3/08)

Darren said:


> Hey,
> 
> Why, because Ross bagged Grumpys on their forum almost everynight years ago (yes Ross, I remember you). Back then he was a kit and kilo brewer who swore black and blue that kits were the beezneez. Since then he has added another "middleman" to HB which we do not need. Increases in malt prices due to the drought is enough without stopping bulk buys.
> 
> ...



I think you need to call the Waaaambulance.


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## Darren (25/3/08)

OK you two.

Glad to see you are both looking out for "pimp-daddy" Ross. 

Single suppliers of any product (including malt) should be viewed with caution. This has happened before and prices doubled in a month. Be warned.

cheers

Darren


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## chovain (26/3/08)

Darren said:


> OK you two.
> 
> Glad to see you are both looking out for "pimp-daddy" Ross.
> 
> ...



And glad to see you're stirring shit in yet another thread that you have no intention of contributing constructively to.

Since when is he the sole supplier? We get our malt from where we like in this universe, and we try not to make fools of ourselves when we get, umm, a bit emotional. No-one's making you or I buy from anyone, so you can wipe away those tears now.


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## Thommo (26/3/08)

Darren,

Maybe my memories not what it used to be, (what with the beer drinking and all), but I could have sworn Ross got into selling Hops because there were no more bulk buys. I always thought he was the solution to the problem, not the cause.

I'm sure there was a thread around here somewhere showing that too. Buggered if I can be arsed finding it though.

As for the prices on Ross' website, look pretty good to me. Seem a bit cheaper than what we can get them here for. How much will freight add to the price of each bag? I think last time it was about $5, but I'm just going with my hazy memory.

Cheers,
Thommo.


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## warrenlw63 (26/3/08)

Darren said:


> Yes, that is correct. Like he did with hops Ross has now stopped bulk buys for every state except SA.
> 
> The way malt prices and Ross's profits are going it will be cheaper to buy imported beer
> 
> ...



Sorry ISB guys for cutting in here but...

So Daz say for example if any other person in SA wanted to organise a bulk buy and bypass you there'd probably be no dramas? Refreshing to know that.

Even nicer to know you do it all for nothing mate you old philanthropist.  

I'll leave yas to sort your grain... Wish somebody would take the reigns down here. Warren needs grains quicko! :lol:

Warren -


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## Stuster (26/3/08)

warrenlw63 said:


> I'll leave yas to sort your grain... Wish somebody would take the reigns down here. Warren needs grains quicko! :lol:



Well, if you need it done, you know what you gotta do.


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## warrenlw63 (26/3/08)

Stuster said:


> Well, if you need it done, you know what you gotta do.



:lol: Yep, force somebody at gunpoint to do the admin and pick-up. Like us and the Little Red Hen. Everybody want's to "eat" the bread but nobody wants to help "bake" it.

I'm sitting tight down in Vic. Already organised, admin and picked up one previously. Somebody else has got to be Mr Big.

Warren -


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## Ross (26/3/08)

Stuster said:


> Ok, I've contacted Dave at North Sydney and Ross and the prices are almost identical overall including discounts and freight. There is a difference in local malts supplied, with Dave having Joe White malts and Ross having Barret Burston malt. One advantage of Dave is that he can deliver it to a couple of places and keep a _few _ bags in his shop for anybody who couldn't come to collect the grains on the day. Personally, I think we should support the local guy (no offence Ross) but what does everyone else think?



Hi Stu,

Personally doesn't worry me at all, we make very little organising the bulk buys on behalf of Cryer Malts.
Personally (having used both) I think the BB Ale is much nicer than JW Ale, but if you're happy with JW, go with whoever you like  

Edit: ....& Stu, if you want to get Dave to contact me, I'd be happy to give him pricing on all the malts which may suit him/you as well.

Cheers Ross


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## KillerRx4 (26/3/08)

Ha great work cornering the distribution rights for Cryer Ross. Are you now the sole distributor for them? It was only 6 months ago we could buy direct rather than have you dropship on our behalf. 

I cant help but agree with Darrens sentiments on this.

Anyway... Stuster, do you have pricing & available malts so we can confirm our orders?


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## Jim_Levet (26/3/08)

Darren said:


> Hey,
> 
> Why, because Ross bagged Grumpys on their forum almost everynight years ago (yes Ross, I remember you). Back then he was a kit and kilo brewer who swore black and blue that kits were the beezneez. Since then he has added another "middleman" to HB which we do not need. Increases in malt prices due to the drought is enough without stopping bulk buys.
> 
> ...



So how does that differ to what you do Darren?  

James


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## Darren (26/3/08)

Ok, Ok, Ross is a nice guy and is looking out for you.

Who cares if we have to pay $100 for a bag of malt in the future?

Ross' prices look pretty good ATM. Grab it whilst you can as new prices are significantly higher (eg $60/bag of BB ale out of the warehouse without GST, around $85 without GST for Weyermann pils).

cheers

darren


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## masher (26/3/08)

How about dropping the Ross V Darren "agro fest" and just concentrate on getting this bulk buy fired up!


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## Paul H (26/3/08)

Darren said:


> Ok, Ok, Ross is a nice guy and is looking out for you.
> 
> Who cares if we have to pay $100 for a bag of malt in the future?
> 
> ...



The sky is falling, the sky is falling & it's all Ross's fault


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## Paul H (26/3/08)

Darren said:


> Ok, Ok, Ross is a nice guy and is looking out for you.
> 
> Who cares if we have to pay $100 for a bag of malt in the future?
> 
> ...



Yeah & he caused the drought, poor yields & was behind the grassy noll when JFK was shot


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## Ross (26/3/08)

Darren said:


> Ok, Ok, Ross is a nice guy and is looking out for you.
> 
> Who cares if we have to pay $100 for a bag of malt in the future?
> 
> ...



I shan't add fuel to the personnel abuse being hurled at me, but I will correct the above false statement.

As off 1st April, our Weyermann prices will be unchanged ie $63 per bag GST inc & not the $93+ being stated
BB malts will see approx 15% rise, making Ale malt just $44 a bag GST inc & not the $66+ being stated.
Bairds will see increases of up to 30% on the specialty malts but Marris Otter will only see a rise to $59 (10%)
That's through us though....what Darren charges is down to him B) 

Cheers Ross....


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## Darren (26/3/08)

Ross said:


> I shan't add fuel to the personnel abuse being hurled at me, but I will correct the above false statement.
> 
> As off 1st April, our Weyermann prices will be unchanged ie $63 per bag GST inc & not the $93+ being stated
> BB malts will see approx 15% rise, making Ale malt just $44 a bag GST inc & not the $66+ being stated.
> ...




Ross,

You are correct. i was working it out at 25 bags/tonne as opposed to 40

cheers

Darren


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## T.D. (26/3/08)

Ross said:


> BB malts will see approx 15% rise, making Ale malt just $44 a bag GST inc



Is this the retail price (non-bulk-buy) per sack available from craftbrewer? I always thought the whole point of a bulk buy was to get wholesale prices - just the same as retailers do when they buy in bulk for their stores. If a sack of grain is only going to cost $44 from craftbrewer then why is everybody bothering with a bulk buy? Sorry if I've missed something, I've only skimmed through the thread.

Personally, I think the days of bulk buys are dead (congratulations to the retailers/individuals out there who have set out to achieve this goal). These days a moderate "large-order discount" is really the most that you can hope for. I must say I am pretty sick of various retailers interfering in the market in an effort to force home brewers to buy from particular stockists only, at relatively elevated prices. Its pretty ordinary behaviour in my opinion. Particularly when the practices of some retailers are precisely what they themselves criticised others for doing not so long ago.


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## DJR (26/3/08)

T.D. said:


> Is this the retail price (non-bulk-buy) per sack available from craftbrewer? I always thought the whole point of a bulk buy was to get wholesale prices - just the same as retailers do when they buy in bulk for their stores. If a sack of grain is only going to cost $44 from craftbrewer then why is everybody bothering with a bulk buy? Sorry if I've missed something, I've only skimmed through the thread.
> 
> Personally, I think the days of bulk buys are dead (congratulations to the retailers/individuals out there who have set out to achieve this goal). These days a moderate "large-order discount" is really the most that you can hope for. I must say I am pretty sick of various retailers interfering in the market in an effort to force home brewers to buy from particular stockists only, at relatively elevated prices. Its pretty ordinary behaviour in my opinion. Particularly when the practices of some retailers are precisely what they themselves criticised others for doing not so long ago.



Freight has to be added in...

Anyone want malt from Cascade maltings, 500kg minimum, under $1 a kg i hear...


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## Stuster (26/3/08)

T.D., AFAIK that price is the price for the bulk buy ie 20 bags plus. The price for one bag is higher. The price from Dave's I gave includes a 20% discount for the bulk buy as well. It's a fair amount if you're buying a few bags, but as you say, it's more of a large order discount. Which is fine I think.


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## T.D. (26/3/08)

Hey Stu, obviously I would never sneeze at a discount of any kind! But if you're ordering a wholesale quantity, its my feeling that you should get a wholesale price! 

I certainly don't blame retailers for not charging wholesale prices - they are running a business after all. What I object to is some retailers FORCING brewers to go through them for a bulk buy, and tacking on a margin for the trouble! When not long ago, these same brewers could have dealt with the maltster direct. A moderately discounted retail margin, all for making a phonecall, is a bit rich I reckon.

Sorry for the rant by the way!


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## warrenlw63 (26/3/08)

Yeah, that is sort of a grey-area that hasn't been explained ??

Like T.D. just stipulated. I've been in on a couple of orders where the orchestrator of the bulk-buy was allowed to deal with Cryer's directly. Prices were also a little better. Not sure what has happened there? I do understand that malt prices have risen though.

Just a little puzzled as to why Cryer's have shut the gate? Same thing happened with buying kilo lots from Hopco some time ago too. That notwithstanding I guess I'm happy to go with the flow.

I guess not everything is forever.  

Warren -


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## razz (26/3/08)

warrenlw63 said:


> Yeah, that is sort of a grey-area that hasn't been explained ??
> 
> Like T.D. just stipulated. I've been in on a couple of orders where the orchestrator of the bulk-buy was allowed to deal with Cryer's directly. Prices were also a little better. Not sure what has happened there? I do understand that malt prices have risen though.
> 
> ...


Diamonds are!


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## chovain (26/3/08)

T.D. said:


> Hey Stu, obviously I would never sneeze at a discount of any kind! But if you're ordering a wholesale quantity, its my feeling that you should get a wholesale price!
> 
> I certainly don't blame retailers for not charging wholesale prices - they are running a business after all. What I object to is some retailers FORCING brewers to go through them for a bulk buy, and tacking on a margin for the trouble! When not long ago, these same brewers could have dealt with the maltster direct. A moderately discounted retail margin, all for making a phonecall, is a bit rich I reckon.
> 
> Sorry for the rant by the way!



Nobody's forcing anybody to do anything. These conspiracies about retailers forcing brewers to buy through them just don't hold water. If Cryer wanted to deal with us, they would, but they don't want to because it's not what they do. That said, if I ever found out that a retailer had done an actual deal with a distributor to not sell to other retailers, then I'd be happy to see them go out of business, and would be eager to do what I could to help that along. 

It's not going to happen though: we have multiple maltsters and distributors in Australia. While the product ranges aren't identical, they _are_ substitutable. If a retailer were to tie up a particular distributor in an attempt to drive the prices up, then we'd collectively spend more with the other brand. It's either not worth it for us to stick with a brand, or it's not worth it for the evil retailer/distributor.

Keep in mind that bulk buys are not really wholesale quantities. It might be as big an order as a typical wholesale order, but the wholesalers don't want to deal with a "pseudo-retailer" who is only going to put in one order a year if they're lucky, and who doesn't have a shop-front to receive the goods. Likewise, I can't imagine many LHBS's would find it too easy to have multiple malt suppliers. If they're getting lots of grain from Bintani, then they're going to find it pretty tough to convince Cryer to supply them the small quantities they'd need to extend their product range.

Edit: By "an actual deal", I'm talking about: "Will you refuse to deal with other retailers if I pay a little more for the malt?" type deals.


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## Ross (26/3/08)

T.D. said:


> Is this the retail price (non-bulk-buy) per sack available from craftbrewer? I always thought the whole point of a bulk buy was to get wholesale prices - just the same as retailers do when they buy in bulk for their stores. If a sack of grain is only going to cost $44 from craftbrewer then why is everybody bothering with a bulk buy? Sorry if I've missed something, I've only skimmed through the thread.
> 
> Personally, I think the days of bulk buys are dead (congratulations to the retailers/individuals out there who have set out to achieve this goal). These days a moderate "large-order discount" is really the most that you can hope for. I must say I am pretty sick of various retailers interfering in the market in an effort to force home brewers to buy from particular stockists only, at relatively elevated prices. Its pretty ordinary behaviour in my opinion. Particularly when the practices of some retailers are precisely what they themselves criticised others for doing not so long ago.



hi TD,

Not sure if you are having a dig at me personally here or not...but in answer to your questions.

The prices quoted are ex warehouse for minimum 20 sacks. Further discounts are available on quantity eg BB pale malt drops by approx 30% if you want a 100 sacks worth. Our prices ex store up here are approx $15 a sack more, which takes into account freight, storage, finance. We also supply micros & HBS's.
For the record, we never approached Cryer Malts to handle their malt for them, they approached us & IMO it's giving everyone a pretty good deal, otherwise I wouldn't have taken it on. 

Cheers Ross


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## T.D. (26/3/08)

Mark Chovain said:


> Nobody's forcing anybody to do anything. These conspiracies about retailers forcing brewers to buy through them just don't hold water. If Cryer wanted to deal with us, they would, but they don't want to because it's not what they do.



But they used to, quite happily. In fact they were building a very favourable reputation among homebrewers for being fair dinkum about bulk buys and actually doing a wholesale transaction. But mysteriously that has now stopped. Well, its not that mysterious - bulk buys hurt home brew shops - that's the bottom line. So its in the interest of these retail outlets to "negotiate" with suppliers not to allow non-commercial entities buy in bulk at wholesale prices. Its a classic "you scratch my back I'll scratch yours" situation. Its not a conspiracy in the slightest.

Its not just grain, its hops too. You used to be able to buy 1kg lots of hops from hopco. Now that's stopped too. These wholesale companies were only too happy to deal with homebrewers direct once upon a time. So what's changed? Why the sudden closed doors? Coincidently at the same time retailers begin offering similar deals through themselves (albeit, with an extra margin for the trouble). 

Sorry if I have gotten anybody's nose out of joint, I just find the whole thing a bit sneaky and insincere.


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## T.D. (26/3/08)

Ross said:


> hi TD,
> 
> Not sure if you are having a dig at me personally here or not...but in answer to your questions.
> 
> ...



Ross,

I am not referring to any one retailer in particular. This is something that's been occurring with increasing frequency among a number of retailers in the last year or two. I think most people around here know what I am talking about. I'm sure you do too, as one such example was supposedly the reason you started your business. Other examples also exist.


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## warrenlw63 (26/3/08)

T.D. said:


> Ross,
> 
> I am not referring to any one retailer in particular. This is something that's been occurring with increasing frequency among a number of retailers in the last year or two. I think most people around here know what I am talking about. I'm sure you do too, as one such example was supposedly the reason you started your business. Other examples also exist.



The point is valid. Everytime something comes along for a reasonable price en-masse it always seems to have its market cornered.

Two things... Should be a buyer's market and secondly I'm starting to think posting one's intentions on an open forum has its limitations. 

Like homebrewing itself. Stop it and it will go underground. 

Warren -


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## Ross (26/3/08)

T.D. said:


> But they used to, quite happily. In fact they were building a very favourable reputation among homebrewers for being fair dinkum about bulk buys and actually doing a wholesale transaction. But mysteriously that has now stopped.



It has not stopped - Cryer simply asked us to handle the bulk buys for them as handling these small quantities is not their core business & they were finding it a problem to administer - Would you rather they stopped supplying bulk to homebrewers? With the small return we get for administrating this & then to get public abuse for it, it makes you wonder why you bother.... I can assure you, from a finacial perspective, I'd much rather be making full retail sales.

Anyway, I do see where you are coming from, but I can assure you there is no agenda here other than promoting Cryer Malts & giving everyone a good deal.

Cheers Ross


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## T.D. (27/3/08)

Ross said:


> It has not stopped - Cryer simply asked us to handle the bulk buys for them as handling these small quantities is not their core business & they were finding it a problem to administer - Would you rather they stopped supplying bulk to homebrewers? With the small return we get for administrating this & then to get public abuse for it, it makes you wonder why you bother.... I can assure you, from a finacial perspective, I'd much rather be making full retail sales.
> 
> Anyway, I do see where you are coming from, but I can assure you there is no agenda here other than promoting Cryer Malts & giving everyone a good deal.
> 
> Cheers Ross



But clearly it is worth it for you to get involved in these bulk buys, or you wouldn't be doing it??? Thing is, the bulk buys worked just fine before, without unnecessary middle man mark ups. Don't get me wrong, its great that you offer a bulk discount - its not that with which I have a beef - its the fact that the only option now is to go through a retailer, at a higher price, when not long ago, both home brewers AND Cryer were more than happy dealing direct. So what's changed?

You are asking yourself why you bother doing it - I think there are more and more home brewers out there wondering the same thing. My old HBS used to do a 20% off deal for a lot less than half a pallet. To me half a pallet is a commercial quantity, which deserves to be a wholesale transaction. In fact I know of home brew shops that order half a palet direct from malting companies. Do they need to do their transaction through another retailer? No, they deal direct with the supplier! What's different with home brewers? 

That's all I am saying. Who it was that convinced Cryer to stop dealing direct with home brewers is a moot point - its the fact that there are now extra people in the supply chain that are effectively redundent, and are all taking a little cut for themselves. This is my point. Its not a stab at any particular individual, but rather its a stab at the "practice" in general.


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## AndrewQLD (27/3/08)

Clearly TD you have a problem with the way Bulk buys are being run and that's your right, so I'm glad to see you haven't participated in this one.

Clearly you are also taking this thread way off topic and maybe you should air your beefs else where on the forum.

I'm just glad you refrained from airing your off topic views in the Bundaberg Bulk buy thread, everyone knows how these bulk buys work and if they don't like it they don't come on board. No offence but I really think your flogging a dead horse now.

It would be nice to see the Moderators doing their jobs and moving some of these posts elsewhere. Probably mine included.

Andrew


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## kabooby (27/3/08)

Its been hard not to coment on this issue but its starting to get my goat. If Cryers dont want to deal with bulk buys to homebrewers and prefer to deal with wholesalers than it is completely there choice. I understand that it would be much easier for them to supply wholesalers, whom which they already have account and delivery details and probably even have comercial credit, than it would be to supply a bunch of homebrewers a couple of times a year.

There is no need to put dirt on Ross for handling this when Cryers asked him to do it!!!! 

Whats next? Putting shit on Harvey Norman because we cant buy our TV directly from Sony 

Can we get on with the bulk buy now


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## T.D. (27/3/08)

AndrewQLD said:


> Clearly TD you have a problem with the way Bulk buys are being run and that's your right, so I'm glad to see you haven't participated in this one.
> 
> Clearly you are also taking this thread way off topic and maybe you should air your beefs else where on the forum.
> 
> ...



Andrew, you may have noticed I'm not the only one here who finds the whole thing a bit dubious. But if people are happy with the current situation then that's great. As you pointed out, I haven't participated.


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## T.D. (27/3/08)

kabooby said:


> Its been hard not to coment on this issue but its starting to get my goat. If Cryers dont want to deal with bulk buys to homebrewers and prefer to deal with wholesalers than it is completely there choice. I understand that it would be much easier for them to supply wholesalers, whom which they already have account and delivery details and probably even have comercial credit, than it would be to supply a bunch of homebrewers a couple of times a year.
> 
> There is no need to put dirt on Ross for handling this when Cryers asked him to do it!!!!
> 
> ...



I am a bit sick of this circular conversation too, so I'll say one more thing then that's it.

You've missed my point entirely. Not for a second do I EXPECT wholesale prices, don't get me wrong! All I am saying is that if ordering a wholesale quantity (as determined by the supplier that is) you deserve a wholesale price. I don't think that's an "outrageous" comment. 

Let me ask you though, using your Harvey Norman principle, if you called Sony and asked them what their minimum wholesale order quantity was, and they told you 100 TVs... And you had 100 people that wanted to buy those TVs... Would you be content dealing through Harvey Norman to buy those TVs at a price that is somewhere between the wholesale and retail price? Most people would rather deal with Sony at a wholesale level. Of course, if Harvey Norman convinced Sony to disallow such an option you'd have no choice in the matter...

I find it very hard to believe that Cryer don't want to deal with home brewers because its "too much trouble". If that was the case they'd simply increase their minimum order quantity. Seems much more likely to me that retailers who feel that these bulk buys are harming their retail sales have convinced cryer to stop supplying home brewers. It is this practice that I find a bit rough. Whether you agree is up to you.

They are my thoughts though. Once again, I am not aiming these comments at any one retailer. My beef is with the practice of artificially adding barriers to trade in any market - home brew or otherwise. I am simply using the example of Cryer to illustrate my point (apologies to Ross if it appears this is an issue I have with him personally - like I said, he has stated that craftbrewer was set up to get around this issue in the case of hops). I think my point is clear. No more comment required.


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## Gerard_M (27/3/08)

Well I must be bored as I have read most of this topic whilst the HLT gets up to temp. There needs to be a corner of this forum set aside for bickering & whinging. Ross don't worry about the abuse, there have been harsher comments made on this forum in the past and they were directed at much nicer people than you!  Time to HTFU old boy!  Has anybody bothered to ask DrewCarey if he wants to be in the bulk-buy?Stu should I give him a call ?
Cheers
Gerard


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## the_fuzz (27/3/08)

T.D. said:


> Let me ask you though, using your Harvey Norman principle, if you called Sony and asked them what their minimum wholesale order quantity was, and they told you 100 TVs... And you had 100 people that wanted to buy those TVs... Would you be content dealing through Harvey Norman to buy those TVs at a price that is somewhere between the wholesale and retail price? Most people would rather deal with Sony at a wholesale level. Of course, if Harvey Norman convinced Sony to disallow such an option you'd have no choice in the matter...



But the problem with the above is that Sony with flat out say no - There is generally no industry that will supply wholesale goods to a Non-Business entity. Food Stuffs seem to be the exception. It is not is a wholesalers interest to seel direct to the public - to you a pallet might be considered "wholesale quantities" but when Lion Nathan etc are buying by the Semi Load it changes the spectrum



T.D. said:


> I find it very hard to believe that Cryer don't want to deal with home brewers because its "too much trouble". If that was the case they'd simply increase their minimum order quantity. Seems much more likely to me that retailers who feel that these bulk buys are harming their retail sales have convinced cryer to stop supplying home brewers. It is this practice that I find a bit rough. Whether you agree is up to you.



Ross has advised what happened, so you are calling Ross a liar? As per the above, it is to much trouble for a wholesaler/manufacture to deal with the general public.



T.D. said:


> My beef is with the practice of artificially adding barriers to trade in any market -



Add barriers? You mean having to buy from a retailer, as opposed to the wholesaler? This is business

Sorry guy and TD, I just do not see what the problem here is, it is good business sense - the Wholesaler doesn't care about the consumer, they only have to keep the retailer happy.

In regards to storage, unfortunately I have none  otherwise I would have bought 10 bags myself


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## Fents (27/3/08)

Yay lets save a few bucks on grain (beer) that already costs us a third of the price to make rather than pay retail $40+ a slab for absolute shite beer.

Sorry not very helpfull or constructive, just the way i feel.


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## redgums500 (27/3/08)

warrenlw63 said:


> The point is valid. Everytime something comes along for a reasonable price en-masse it always seems to have its market cornered.
> 
> Two things... Should be a buyer's market and secondly I'm starting to think posting one's intentions on an open forum has its limitations.
> 
> ...



Warren 
You must have been living under a rock for quite sometime if you think the malt market (or any grain for that matter) is a buyers market. In a perfect utopian, socialist society, someone would grow the grain,then someone would malt the grain and give it to you for nothing, giving everyone that fuzzy lubby dubby feeling of helping you make the beer which you in turn you,provided to the masses for nothing ( well maybe you got them to mow the lawn of a weekend, and wash the bird poop off that red flag every now and then )
Fact of the matter is grain (any type of grain ) is in short supply world wide. Prices are on the up not because of conspiracys like yours and TD's, but because ALL food industries are competing to guarantee some supply this year. One would envisage that a large company like Cryer would not want to be buggerising around with 20kgs of malt when they have another chap on the phone wishing to order 300 tonne of the bloody stuff. It makes good business sense to pass the smaller retail sector onto a reseller who is set up and willing to handle such quantities. I've never met Ross and have not purchased anything from Craftbrewer but he has been exceptional as a source of knowledge to both myself and others on this forum. Some of you blokes really should get out more.

Redgums


----------



## warrenlw63 (27/3/08)

:lol: Certainly can see how you got your name. They'd be bright red now huh?

Warren -


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## schooey (27/3/08)

Fents said:


> Yay lets save a few bucks on grain (beer) that already costs us a third of the price to make rather than pay retail $40+ a slab for absolute shite beer.
> 
> Sorry not very helpfull or constructive, just the way i feel.



+1

I didn't get involved in this hobby to save a few dollars. I did it because I can brew MY beer to MY recipe when I want. I don't even own a mill. I'm happy just to cruise on down to MHB, buy my grain for what works out to be not so much more than what I can buy it for in a bulk buy, PLUS I get all the add ons...

Free advice on cracking, mashing etc
Free advice on ingredients in my recipe
Free Packaging so I can store it for a week or two if I want
I can get it same day delivery, 5 days a week
I can pick from a huge range of speciality ingredients in my recipes without having to buy/keep them all

anyway... the list goes on. 

I know not everyone feels this way, but for the few extra dollars, I see VALUE in my system, compared to saving a few dollars the other way. I'm sure there are other more experienced brewers out there with differing opinions. At the end of the day, I don't mind if people that are providing me with excellent service are making a dollar, it means they will still be there to do it tomorrow when I need it again...


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## warrenlw63 (27/3/08)

I think a few of you blokes are misconstruing what T.D. and myself were getting at and composing your own personal odes to certain retailers. 

We were merely questioning as to why Cryer's had suddenly shut their door to people wishing to "independently" purchase 20 sack minimums from them. All that being said if they did it for reasons only known to Cryer's and were in no way "cajoled" by other parties then I'm "more" than happy to go with the flow and participate in bulk-buys the way they're orchestrated now.  

As usual though most blokes would rather type than actually read. Sometimes I can't say I blame them because lot of it is pure bumf that if used for more practical purposes would probably aggrovate one's hemorrhoids. 

Warren -


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## Fents (27/3/08)

schooey said:


> At the end of the day, I don't mind if people that are providing me with excellent service are making a dollar, it means they will still be there to do it tomorrow when I need it again...



Legendary. B)


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## T.D. (27/3/08)

redgums500 said:


> Warren
> You must have been living under a rock for quite sometime if you think the malt market (or any grain for that matter) is a buyers market. In a perfect utopian, socialist society, someone would grow the grain,then someone would malt the grain and give it to you for nothing, giving everyone that fuzzy lubby dubby feeling of helping you make the beer which you in turn you,provided to the masses for nothing ( well maybe you got them to mow the lawn of a weekend, and wash the bird poop off that red flag every now and then )
> Fact of the matter is grain (any type of grain ) is in short supply world wide. Prices are on the up not because of conspiracys like yours and TD's, but because ALL food industries are competing to guarantee some supply this year. One would envisage that a large company like Cryer would not want to be buggerising around with 20kgs of malt when they have another chap on the phone wishing to order 300 tonne of the bloody stuff. It makes good business sense to pass the smaller retail sector onto a reseller who is set up and willing to handle such quantities. I've never met Ross and have not purchased anything from Craftbrewer but he has been exceptional as a source of knowledge to both myself and others on this forum. Some of you blokes really should get out more.
> 
> Redgums



:lol: You are missing one important part in that utopian plan of yours. YOU have to grow it, and malt it, not "someone" else - it doesn't just get dropped off at your door! And if you speak ill of those who rule your society, you get persecuted! Starting to see any similarities by the way???  

I think it might be a good idea for some people here to actually read the posts in this thread... Nobody's arguing about drought premiums. And since when was 300t the minimum wholesale order??? :lol: Its long been established that half a pallet (500kg) constitutes a wholesale quantity.


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## warrenlw63 (27/3/08)

Whoops wrong door! I thought this was Dystopia. B) 

Warren -


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## the_fuzz (27/3/08)

T.D. said:


> Its long been established that half a pallet (500kg) constitutes a wholesale quantity.



Did you call Cryer and confirm?

Why would a wholesaler sell to a NON-ABN holder?


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## T.D. (27/3/08)

As I said, home brew shops have long been ordering half pallets of grain wholesale.

Cryer used to happily sell to non ABN holders. Who said you HAVE to have an ABN to attract wholesale pricing anyway? If the wholesaler has that as a requirement then that's fine, that's their decision.

This has become a very petty argument.


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## T.D. (27/3/08)

warrenlw63 said:


> Whoops wrong door! I thought this was Dystopia. B)
> 
> Warren -


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## kabooby (27/3/08)

I understand what Warren and TD are saying and I respect that. If Cryers have been cajoled and prices do start to go up to fatten someones pocket than we have a reason to be upset. I dont think this has happened and possibly will not happen.

Do we know that Cryers have been cajoled into anything or is it just speculation. If its just speculation than this has been a very entertaining thread 

Kabooby


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## bconnery (27/3/08)

I can't pretend to know the real reason but I would hazard a guess that the reason, or at least one, that we can no longer organise direct from Cryer is related to that of the hops. There is a shortage on and in times of shortage the regular customers get taken care off first, not one off now and again random punters. 

When there is lots to go around then any business is welcome...

Plus Cryer would see it as an advantage to allow the administration, and therefore time, to be taken care of by a third party, They still get the money for the product, but with less investment in time, which is after all, money. That is simply good business as far as they are concerned.


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## domonsura (27/3/08)

T.D. said:


> I think it might be a good idea for some people here to actually read the posts in this thread... Nobody's arguing about drought premiums. And since when was 300t the minimum wholesale order??? :lol: Its long been established that half a pallet (500kg) constitutes a wholesale quantity.



Bullshit.
Maybe half a pallet is wholesale to you T.D., but to Cryer or Bintani or any other maltster, it's a sneeze in a big big bucket, and barely warrants the time to pick up the phone. They used to be happy to do it, and now their not. I would say that it's more as a result of their own accounting dept calling a halt to it than anything else. And they asked me for my ABN number when I was talking to them this morning by the way.....

You got one thing right though - Ross's prices are good. Bloody good. And that's got everything to do with the amount of grain he moves, none of this rubbish about retailers pressuring wholesalers. I have the latest price list from Cryer, and the prices per bag he has quoted involve virtually no margin as far as I can see when you factor in GST. And that's also probably because he moves enough to get a better deal than I can so his price list would look better than mine. And that's business.

But some simple facts for all those who can't see past the bullshit in this thread- 


 Cryer will deal with anyone wanting to re-sell REAL quantities of malt, that's why I have the price list from them as well.......because I'm a retailer....(which incidentally is what Cryer classes YOU as Darren, because you re-sell malt at a markup just like everyone else - however small.) This is because they are a WHOLESALER not a RETAILER. Wholesalers sell to re-sellers. Re-sellers sell to the public. That's the way it works. Any questions?
]Cryer is reluctant to deal with ANYONE who is not a re-seller, and also ANYONE who is asking for malts in quantities/frequency that will cost them just as much in time to package and send as it will make them profit. (ie: half a pallet) Because IT'S NOT WORTH IT, AND THEY ARE IN BUSINESS TO MAKE MONEY, and because to sell wholesale direct to the public destroys retails markets.
Hopco or Bintani don't sell hops to ANYONE in quantities less than 5kg - doesn't matter who you are. This is the way it's been for at least the last 2 years that I have been buying stuff from them. They both _prefer to deal in 20kg bales_, and will give preference to businesses placing orders for that amount. If you want to buy your hops in 20kg lots, go right ahead and you might have some sway too.....but I'm still pretty sure that Peter Meddings at Bintani and John Ross @ Hopco would both tell you to go jump if you asked them to refuse sale to other parties and only sell to you so you could corner the market. Same would definitely go for David @ Cryer Malt. They are all great guys & as far as I'm concerned have great ethics....which is more than I can say for people who make baseless wild accusations of anti-competitive behaviour with no evidence whatsoever.
There is sweet f'all money to be made in malted grain full stop. Most smaller HBS's only stock it because it's one of the things they are expected to do it to get customers in to sell other stuff to. They make far more money off cans of extract. Bags of grain take up massive amounts of space, require cool pest free storage (which costs money) and have limited shelf life (which also costs money) You can put 100 cans of extract on one shelf and the mice can sit and stare at them till they die of old age. Then give the cans a wipe with a rag and they look just like new.....
You could invest 6 figures into a business just like Ross, & get the deals that he does. Until then, quit your whinging and accept that he's done it for you and he deserves to make a little bit of money for his trouble.
Companies like Cryer make decisions sell or not sell to whoever based on their margins and decisions made by their board - not 'pressures' by HBS retailers. If you think anything else you are deluding yourself. Ross might sell quite a bit of grain, but I'm pretty sure that he would get told where to get off by a multi million dollar turnover business that could take or leave his business at will, if he asked for exclusivity ......
 uhhhhh...I forgot ....what were we all getting so upset for? Aren't the prices still reasonable?


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## Adamt (27/3/08)

^--- In other words: "Close the thread."


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## warrenlw63 (27/3/08)

domonsura said:


> [*]Hopco or Bintani don't sell hops to ANYONE in quantities less than 5kg - doesn't matter who you are. This is the way it's been for at least the last 2 years that I have been buying stuff from them. They both _prefer to deal in 20kg bales_, and will give preference to businesses placing orders for that amount. If you want to buy your hops in 20kg lots, go right ahead and you might have some sway too.....but I'm still pretty sure that Peter Meddings at Bintani and John Ross @ Hopco would both tell you to go jump if you asked them to refuse sale to other parties and only sell to you so you could corner the market. Same would definitely go for David @ Cryer Malt. They are all great guys & as far as I'm concerned have great ethics....which is more than I can say for people who



Au contraire Dom... A letter we all received on Oz Craftbrewer forum about 4 years ago. They used to be more than happy to consider us until a nameless retailer stomped his boots a few years ago and stopped all that. If memory serves the ensuing row over the remaining 2005 crop being bought as a whole by said retailer formed the genesis of another retailer.  

This is from 2004 Ah the memories;
_Dear Brewers

Here at Hopco we have had to do some repackaging of hops and as a result have some New Zealand Flowers available in 1 kg packs. The varieties are;
NZ Fuggle flowers a/a 5.1%
NZ Styrian Golding flowers a/a 4.5%
NZ Pacific Hallertau flowers a/a 6.0%
NZ Nelson Sauvin flowers a/a 13.5%
The price for these packs is $44 each (GST inclusive), postage will be $7.

There are only 4 packs of each variety so get in early.

We also still have some of the 1 kg packs of pellets at $25 each (GST inclusive). The varieties left are;
US Crystal a/a 4.0 %
US Ahtanum a/a 5.7 %
US Galena a/a 12.9 %
US Santiam a/a 6.3 %
US Sterling a/a 6.8 %
US Vangard a/a 6.2 %
US Golding a/a 4.0 %
UK Progress a/a 5.7 %

Kind regards

Sandy Ross
Hopco Pty Ltd
Phone: 03 6225 1596
Fax: 03 6225 2879
Mobile: 0403 005 248
_

Warren -


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## Duff (27/3/08)

Great comments T.D :icon_cheers:


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## domonsura (27/3/08)

Hold on Warren.....as you said 2004...I said 2 years not 4...that's a loooooong time ago..and I don't see anything in there that points to unethical behaviour of the likes that people have been accused of in this thread.......

And hopco was a considerably smaller business back then - they were probably much happier to sell hops by the kg then because they had more time available from what I can gather. They are run off their feet now and hardly have time to scratch their bums at times. I was chatting to John @ Hopco a little while ago about how much bigger their business is these days, how busy they are now & how things are 'not as they were in the good old days'  He's a damn nice guy, as is Peter Meddings from bintani etc and by reputation David Cryer - which is one of the reasons I piped up. These guys have been tarred & feathered by association in this thread, and they don't deserve it. Nor in my opinion does Ross.

Overall. things change, prices go up, the world goes round..... We just all have to adjust and get used to it. 

Now ALL OF YOU. Put down your bow's and arrows and go and make some beer for god's sake......


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## warrenlw63 (27/3/08)

Oh for sure Dom. Just wouldn't like to think that Hopco were trying to rewrite history. :lol: 

Warren -


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## T.D. (27/3/08)

domonsura said:


> Bullshit.
> Maybe half a pallet is wholesale to you T.D., but to Cryer or Bintani or any other maltster, it's a sneeze in a big big bucket, and barely warrants the time to pick up the phone. They used to be happy to do it, and now their not. I would say that it's more as a result of their own accounting dept calling a halt to it than anything else. And they asked me for my ABN number when I was talking to them this morning by the way.....



If you don't mind me asking, how many pallets did you order from them this morning? 5? 10? 100? I doubt it. I know for a fact that you can buy half pallets of both JW and Cryer malts as a wholesale transaction.

If half a pallet is a "sneeze in a big bucket" then why did they sell half pallets to home brewers not so long ago? I am not coming up with some random figure that _I_ call wholesale - its a quantity that I KNOW Cryer (and other malt companies) are willing to supply at a wholesale level. A pallet is obviously preferable for all concerned, but half a pallet is fine.

This has turned into a circular argument, with the initial point being lost long ago. Everybody just keeps repeating the same silly argument and I'm sick of repeating myself. 

I agree, close the thread.


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## warrenlw63 (27/3/08)

Yep, I agree close the bloody thing.

Let's all have a bulk group hug. B) 

Warren -


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## redgums500 (27/3/08)

Dom

I think we have got a couple of school kids posing to be Warren and TD as no adult could be so ignorant or childish.

Cheers
Redgums


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## warrenlw63 (27/3/08)

redgums500 said:


> Dom
> 
> I think we have got a couple of school kids posing to be Warren and TD as no adult could be so ignorant or childish.
> 
> ...



Or have an overwhelming desire to have the last word. <_< 

Warren -


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## Gerard_M (27/3/08)

OK now I understand it all, thanks for all your thoughts. 
Gee it is nice not being a retailer anymore.
Cheers
Gerard


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## domonsura (27/3/08)

TD.........fair enough.....I did say that they are not willing to do it - that was assumption on my behalf because everyone seems to be going on about it for some reason as if people have been refused orders of late? If not...what the hell is all the fuss about?.......

The are a bulk wholesaler, and normally/routinely deal with orders of multiple tonnes to brewery's around Australia and NZ. That is a fact. They are less willing to deal with half pallet orders from what I understand because it involves just as much paperwork and very little profit. That is also a fact as I understand it. The amount of business that goes to HBS is a fraction of that which goes to breweries. That is also a fact as I understand it.

I think you can figure out what I'm getting at.


(and I'm sorry matey, but the size of my order is my business - but it sure as hell wasn't half a pallet :lol: the freight wouldn't be worth it.)

Quick...close the thread so I get the last word :lol:


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## T.D. (27/3/08)

domonsura said:


> These guys have been tarred & feathered by association in this thread, and they don't deserve it. Nor in my opinion does Ross.
> 
> Overall. things change, prices go up, the world goes round..... We just all have to adjust and get used to it.
> 
> Now ALL OF YOU. Put down your bow's and arrows and go and make some beer for god's sake......



For what its worth, it was never my intention to single out any individual retailers, its just that we were talking about Cryer so that's what the topic became based on. Its not personal, not for a second. I am simply voicing my concern over any retailer that attempts to stand in the way of legitimate wholesale transactions because it may hurt their business. Now this has certainly happened in the case of hops. Of course, I have no idea if Ross has done a similar thing with Cryer grain. He assures us all that he hasn't, and I am happy to take his word on that (and am very happy to hear him say that!). Its just frustrating that something that was once upon a time a simple direct dealing with Cryer now HAS to go through an extra middleman! Seems like an unnecessary and redundant addition to the supply chain. But if that's the way Cryer want it then that's obviously their decision. I hope they weren't helped in that decision, as hopco was in the case of the hop bulk buys. Occurring to Ross this is not the way it occurred.

I do agree with you that this topic is getting very old. I am over it.


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## Darren (27/3/08)

warrenlw63 said:


> Yeah, that is sort of a grey-area that hasn't been explained ??
> 
> Like T.D. just stipulated. I've been in on a couple of orders where the orchestrator of the bulk-buy was allowed to deal with Cryer's directly. Prices were also a little better. Not sure what has happened there? I do understand that malt prices have risen though.
> 
> ...



Hey,

I have been busy for the last couple of days so have missed the thread.

What seems overly coincidental is that shortly after Mr. Kendrick (Ross) bought a hop bagging/nitrogen flushing machine, bulk buys of hops from Hopco were stopped. This had led to significant increases in the price of hops!!!

It must be noted that before I started these bulk buys (6-8 years ago) a sack of malt cost more than it does now from a HB shop.

Lets see what happens to the price of malt now Mr. Kendrick is the sole supplier of the Eastern states.

cheers

Darren

EDIT: I forgot to mention that my prices have been the benchmark around the country for many years now. I am not a retailer.


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## domonsura (27/3/08)

That's a huge leap there Darren - don't you think just a little too big? Seriously? That's kind of like saying that I could drive the price of stainless up by buying a band-saw......(not trying to be nasty man, but c'mon.........)

And benchmark for the country? Whoa boy....now you're geting carried away......you are a re-seller so lets not split hairs. The only thing that makes you not a retailer is the lack of an ABN and the reluctance to make a noticeable profit. You have that luxury because you don't pay retail rent and have the spare room. I suspect you might change your tune if your income was related to it......


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## Darren (27/3/08)

Hey Domosura,

Are you saying that if I bought a press, bandsaw and a TIG welder that your products would be worth less or more?

Maybe if you were the only one with those products your argument would be valid.

cheers

Darren

EDIT: You are correct, its not my source of income, I am a homebrewer with a passion for it. I make no profit but get a couple of bags of malt for free for my trouble.

I wish there were more people around like it.

If your source of income is the HB industry, then look further afield.

As for the bechmark comment of yours, I think you had better look into this a bit further.


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## domonsura (27/3/08)

Uhh.......I AM the only one with a fair number of my products Darren......and I still do my level best to charge as little as I can get away with despite stainless prices being where they are and you *know* it...........my argument is perfectly valid. Buying the equipment to _process_ a commodity does not give one influence over the price of said commodity. Maybe over the finished product, but not the base material.

And a couple of bags of malt at cost is roughly $80-$100......which is still profit whichever way you look at it - you don't have to go out and buy the malt, so you are financially better off because of your enterprise.

And all due respect Darren, but please explain your benchmark across the country theory to me. I am not aware of anyone reaching for a list of your prices to work out what they should sell malt for retail, including myself - and I know quite a number of HBS owners across the country. I'm not even sure that many of them have heard of you, and I'm not aware of you selling malt anywhere else other than Adelaide to a few homebrewers. You are beginning to sound (at least to me) like someone who has a rather inflated perception of his own importance in the big scheme of things........(regardless of the fact that I you quite fine and personable in person  but you do seem to be asking for it.....so I'm trying to be polite and somewhat diplomatic.....you know that's not my strong point :lol: )


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## Batz (27/3/08)

Whoa!

This subject has certainly touched on a few areas,I think Darren's first post was justified,perhaps a PM to Ross asking to explain may have been better.
The bulk buy thing often causes a few ruffled hairs,I know this from experience,and so does Ross before he became a retailer,older members will remember that hops saga.

Why is it retailers on this forum are either danced around with rose pedals sprinkled on them or spat on with Cobra venom?


Batz


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## kevnlis (27/3/08)

Batz said:


> Why is it retailers on this forum are either danced around with rose pedals sprinkled on them or spat on with Cobra venom?



Can anyone else believe it took this long for someone to hit the nail on the head?!?!


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## Haydo (27/3/08)

I must be ignorant, but Ive never realised that Craftbrewer (a business) was ripping me off so much.

That being said....Ross, expect an order in the next week or so and I expect a beer or two and a chat when I pick it up to compensate!


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## Julez (27/3/08)

Batz said:


> Why is it retailers on this forum are either danced around with rose pedals sprinkled on them or spat on with Cobra venom?
> 
> 
> Batz



Always dangerous mixing business with pleasure... 

Also dangerous to engage in defamation where individuals and/or business names are concerned but makes for a good read. Kind of like the Who Weekly or No Idea of AHB :lol: . With every post it just gets better.


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## Darren (27/3/08)

Hey Domonsura,

Having Scottish heritage does not help my diplomacy  
I hope you are aware that I have been doing this for quite a while and have spoken to many homebrew shop owners. I maintain that once the benchmark has been raised, ALL HB shops will return to 2002 prices PLUS. 

FWIW, I think your products are good value for money and well constructed. I hope for your sake these products are not currently being produced in China for a few cents.

As for malt prices, Mr Kendrick (Ross) has certainly heard of me  . He has moved from kit and kilo proponent to AG extrordinair (spelling) in no time flat. He is a shonk with little understanding of the process AFIAK and there only to monopolise the market. 

cheers

Darren




domonsura said:


> Uhh.......I AM the only one with a fair number of my products Darren......and I still do my level best to charge as little as I can get away with despite stainless prices being where they are and you *know* it...........my argument is perfectly valid. Buying the equipment to _process_ a commodity does not give one influence over the price of said commodity. Maybe over the finished product, but not the base material.
> 
> And a couple of bags of malt at cost is roughly $80-$100......which is still profit whichever way you look at it - you don't have to go out and buy the malt, so you are financially better off because of your enterprise.
> 
> And all due respect Darren, but please explain your benchmark across the country theory to me. I am not aware of anyone reaching for a list of your prices to work out what they should sell malt for retail, including myself - and I know quite a number of HBS owners across the country. I'm not even sure that many of them have heard of you, and I'm not aware of you selling malt anywhere else other than Adelaide to a few homebrewers. You are beginning to sound (at least to me) like someone who has a rather inflated perception of his own importance in the big scheme of things........(regardless of the fact that I you quite fine and personable in person  but you do seem to be asking for it.....so I'm trying to be polite and somewhat diplomatic.....you know that's not my strong point :lol: )


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## kabooby (27/3/08)

Wow Darren you must have a lot of friends with comments like that

Im sure there are a lot of people on this forum that beleive otherwise about Ross

But hey, everyone is entitled to there opinion. I just dont see the need to be so nasty

Kabooby


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## AndrewQLD (27/3/08)

Darren said:


> Hey Domonsura,
> 
> Having Scottish heritage does not help my diplomacy
> I hope you are aware that I have been doing this for quite a while and have spoken to many homebrew shop owners. I maintain that once the benchmark has been raised, ALL HB shops will return to 2002 prices PLUS.
> ...



Wow Darren, even for you that is a pathetic swipe. Maybe the competition is getting too much for the monopoly you have held all these years. You really need to think before you type, for your own benefit if nothing else.

Andrew


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## Cummins (27/3/08)

I agree its frustrating there is another middleman a few thousand kilometres away taking cash for doing basically nothing (faxing a peice of paper with the order and sending a cheque?) when a few months back we could do that ourselves and it was fine.

But is also fair that wholesalers can't be stuffed dealing with the public.

Boo hoo. :beer:


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## Batz (27/3/08)

How did bulk buys start on AHB?

This is before very few if any of our current retailer were even members

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...meter&st=40

Now lets all be nice hey?

Batz


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## peas_and_corn (27/3/08)

Darren said:


> Hey,
> 
> I have been busy for the last couple of days so have missed the thread.
> 
> ...




I remember back before ross started up Craftbrewer I popped over to the Middle East for a few weeks and when I returned the forum was in a huge ruckus over bulk buys. After reading back over past posts and making discreet enquiries to several members via PM it turned out that a hop bulk buy was vetoed by *someone*. It was from all these problems that the seeds of Craftbrewer were planted. Your chronology is the wrong way around


* I don't know who, I don't think anybody really knows.


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## the_fuzz (27/3/08)

Darren said:


> As for malt prices, Mr Kendrick (Ross) has certainly heard of me  . He has moved from kit and kilo proponent to AG extrordinair (spelling) in no time flat. He is a shonk with little understanding of the process AFIAK and there only to monopolise the market.



Any other forum I visit this would be deleted and the poster given a 24 hour ban - seriously what is with the public personal attack - I am at a loss as to why you would do it. 

BTW don't all business's try to monopolise the market in a way, I mean you do not open a business for fun, but to make a profit - some people are better business people than others

BTW x 2 - Please do not mention your scotish herritage as an excuse, it is insulting to us Scots B)


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## MVZOOM (27/3/08)

Whats_Wrong_with_Hahn said:


> Any other forum I visit this would be deleted and the poster given a 24 hour ban - seriously what is with the public personal attack - I am at a loss as to why you would do it.
> 
> BTW don't all business's try to monopolise the market in a way, I mean you do not open a business for fun, but to make a profit - some people are better business people than others
> 
> BTW x 2 - Please do not mention your scotish herritage as an excuse, it is insulting to us Scots B)



That's why I 'bit' in the first place. Personal attacks - it's just not cricket. If there's nothing good to say, don't say it at all.


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## Darren (27/3/08)

Well, MVZoom,

You have been contained. A Scot would always speak their mind.

cheers

Darren

Edit: Unless he was a mangina


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## InCider (27/3/08)

This would be a top thread except the the personal attacks on Ross - and he's the only bloke who has a dedicated thread where people post their thanks and appreciate of his service! What gives?

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


*Tall Poppy Syndrome* (TPS) is a pejorative term used in the United Kingdom, Australia, Canada and New Zealand to describe what is seen as a levelling social attitude. Someone is said to be suffering from tall poppy syndrome when his or her assumption of a higher economic, social or political position attracts criticism, being perceived as presumptuous, attention seeking or without merit. *Alternately, it is seen as a societal trait in which people of genuine merit are criticized or resented because the attention given them elevates them above their peers.*

*As for wholesale prices on bulk buys:*

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*Wholesaling is the sale of goods or merchandise to retailers, to industrial, commercial, institutional, or other professional business users*, or to other wholesalers and related subordinated services.[1]

According to the United Nations Statistics Division, "Wholesale" is the resale (sale without transformation) of new and used goods to retailers, to industrial, commercial, institutional or professional users, or to other wholesalers, or involves acting as an agent or broker in buying merchandise for, or selling merchandise to, such persons or companies. *Wholesalers frequently physically assemble, sort and grade goods in large lots, break bulk, repack and redistribute in smaller lots.[2]*

*And yes, I am using Wikipedia as a crutch!  

InCider.*


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## Darren (27/3/08)

Oh, Internet forum is the new speak for political correctness is it?

I visited one the other day that said all whites should die in hell.

cheers

Darren


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## Darren (27/3/08)

Another said Allah is great and all alcohol drinking, pig fleshed infidels should die.

Sorry for my seemingly personal attacks against individuals.


cheers

Darren


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## the_fuzz (27/3/08)

Darren said:


> Sorry for my seemingly personal attacks against individuals.



What do you mean by "seemingly" - you called a man by first and last name a Shonk....... 

If this was the cricket, all the crowd would be going "wanker" "wanker" "wanker"..............  

BTW darren I will have to try your beer as by your comments, you must be the beer Brewer in the world - Or is your name Chuck?


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## AndrewQLD (27/3/08)

> Oh, Internet forum is the new speak for political correctness is it?
> 
> I visited one the other day that said all whites should die in hell.
> 
> ...





Darren said:


> Another said Allah is great and all alcohol drinking, pig fleshed infidels should die.
> 
> Sorry for my seemingly personal attacks against individuals.
> 
> ...



Why does it not surprise me you frequent these sites Darren? But I am pretty sure you don't mean what your saying above, your posts are getting worse and your digging a hole.

Andrew


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## devo (27/3/08)

*I LIKE SHORT, SHORTS.*


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## Darren (27/3/08)

MVZOOM said:


> That's why I 'bit' in the first place. Personal attacks - it's just not cricket. If there's nothing good to say, don't say it at all.




Oh yeah, 

Cricket doesn't sledge

cheers Homebrewers

Darren


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## Quintrex (27/3/08)

FWIW

When I was looking into organising a grain bulk-buy a while back I rang up Cryer malts and they wanted to know if they could use me or someone else as a central point with which to direct home-brewers who wanted to buy malt to?" So clearly they were looking for someone back then, shortly after then, they obviously contacted Ross. 
The prices that we had for our bulk buy shortly after that and the prices offered by Ross now differ little, so all in all not a terrible outcome. 
As Cryer was obviously getting over the hassle of dealing with smaller fish, at least they still offer bulk buys to us albeit through a third party.


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