# Vic 2017 Xmas in July Case Swap - TASTING



## DJ_L3ThAL (9/7/17)

Get drinking fellas...

*7th July - 9th July Location: Idzy's Brewery - Ferntree Gully*

*Drink Now:*
4. AJ80 - grapefruit pale ale (should be ready)
7. mofox1 - Monster Pale (drink now)
8.GrumpyPaul - Grapefruit Sour. (drink now) [Note there are 15 sours labelled 8 and 5 of the American Rye in this case labelled 8a)
9. mofox1 - Heady Topperish (drink now!)
13. TheWiggman - Haters' Wheat© (drink now)
14. GrumpyPaul – American Rye (drink now)


*Drink Later:*
3. DJ_L3THAL - English Brown - ready from September.


*TBC what it is and when to taste:*
1. Idzy
2. Husky
5. droid - Nefarious Villain; A three way blend of two RIS's and a Sour Cherry Stout
6. Midnight brew - Son of Zeus IPA blended with Harvest IPA
10. Shortybronx
11. Whiteferret
12. Laxation - Stout, American style. Not quite ready
15. Tahoose
16. Danscraftbeer (if I can rustle up 24 bottles of beer, I didn't plan etc ) I should be able to although they are just my standard house ale stuff, a couple of Stouts, Irish Red Ale, maybe some Saisons very well aged now.



I have two labelled "155 Mocha Porter" and "Red Earth 6.4%" - are these yours Danscraftbeer?


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## droid (9/7/17)

Get drinking fellas...

*7th July - 9th July Location: Idzy's Brewery - Ferntree Gully*

*Drink Now:*
4. AJ80 - grapefruit pale ale (should be ready)
5. droid - Nefarious Villain; A three way blend of Stouts - drink now or let age, whatever you like
7. mofox1 - Monster Pale (drink now)
8.GrumpyPaul - Grapefruit Sour. (drink now) [Note there are 15 sours labelled 8 and 5 of the American Rye in this case labelled 8a)
9. mofox1 - Heady Topperish (drink now!)
13. TheWiggman - Haters' Wheat© (drink now)
14. GrumpyPaul – American Rye (drink now)


*Drink Later:*
3. DJ_L3THAL - English Brown - ready from September.


*TBC what it is and when to taste:*
1. Idzy
2. Husky
6. Midnight brew - Son of Zeus IPA blended with Harvest IPA
10. Shortybronx
11. Whiteferret
12. Laxation - Stout, American style. Not quite ready
15. Tahoose
16. Danscraftbeer


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## Yob (9/7/17)

Is that the same as I have in the fridge mate?


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## idzy (9/7/17)

One thing that Martin and I were talking about around the fire is that one of the valuable things about the swap is to get feedback on your beer. Kind of like some pre-competition constructive criticism and it's free. Obviously we want to promote as many people to be swapping as possible.

Based on this, it would be good to give some feedback either in the form of BCJP sort of style or something like:
Alignment with Style - 
Overall impressions - 

Cheers fellas and happy brewing!

Idzy


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## droid (9/7/17)

Yob said:


> Is that the same as I have in the fridge mate?


Yes mate


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## Yob (9/7/17)

yum..


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## Midnight Brew (10/7/17)

Get drinking fellas...

*7th July - 9th July Location: Idzy's Brewery - Ferntree Gully*

*Drink Now:*
4. AJ80 - grapefruit pale ale (should be ready)
5. droid - Nefarious Villain; A three way blend of Stouts - drink now or let age, whatever you like
7. mofox1 - Monster Pale (drink now)
8.GrumpyPaul - Grapefruit Sour. (drink now) [Note there are 15 sours labelled 8 and 5 of the American Rye in this case labelled 8a)
9. mofox1 - Heady Topperish (drink now!)
13. TheWiggman - Haters' Wheat© (drink now)
14. GrumpyPaul – American Rye (drink now)


*Drink Later:*
3. DJ_L3THAL - English Brown - ready from September.
6. Midnight Brew, IPA - drink end of July.

*TBC what it is and when to taste:*
1. Idzy
2. Husky
10. Shortybronx
11. Whiteferret
12. Laxation - Stout, American style. Not quite ready
15. Tahoose
16. Danscraftbeer


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## malt junkie (10/7/17)

I'm not in the swap per say, but Droid handed me one of his extras as a thank you.
5. Nafarious Villan
There's no stated ABV, BE WARNED IT HAS SOME KICK. 
Definitely within the stout category but perhaps on the edge of RIS. Bold fruity cherry flavour maybe slightly cloying. The roast and chocolatey flavors are quite smooth allowing the friuty flavour to come through. I originally thought the beer was under carbed slightly but the cab level works well with the body and flavours. Put the evening aside for this one, most certainly worth it.

Thanks Droid really nice drop

MJ


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## Whiteferret (10/7/17)

Get drinking fellas...

*7th July - 9th July Location: Idzy's Brewery - Ferntree Gully*

*Drink Now:*
4. AJ80 - grapefruit pale ale (should be ready)
5. droid - Nefarious Villain; A three way blend of Stouts - drink now or let age, whatever you like
7. mofox1 - Monster Pale (drink now)
8.GrumpyPaul - Grapefruit Sour. (drink now) [Note there are 15 sours labelled 8 and 5 of the American Rye in this case labelled 8a)
9. mofox1 - Heady Topperish (drink now!)
13. TheWiggman - Haters' Wheat© (drink now)
14. GrumpyPaul – American Rye (drink now)


*Drink Later:*
3. DJ_L3THAL - English Brown - ready from September.
6. Midnight Brew, IPA - drink end of July.
11. Whiteferret - British Strong Ale (Give it a couple of months say September)


*TBC what it is and when to taste:*
1. Idzy
2. Husky
10. Shortybronx
12. Laxation - Stout, American style. Not quite ready
15. Tahoose
16. Danscraftbeer


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## droid (10/7/17)

malt junkie said:


> I'm not in the swap per say, but Droid handed me one of his extras as a thank you.
> 5. Nafarious Villan
> There's no stated ABV, BE WARNED IT HAS SOME KICK.
> Definitely within the stout category but perhaps on the edge of RIS. Bold fruity cherry flavour maybe slightly cloying. The roast and chocolatey flavors are quite smooth allowing the friuty flavour to come through. I originally thought the beer was under carbed slightly but the cab level works well with the body and flavours. Put the evening aside for this one, most certainly worth it.
> ...



Kind words mate thanks,

It is probably worth letting it age (thanks to those). The cherry part, 35% of the volume approx... is two months old and around 6.5%abv, the Standard RIS (35%) is 7 months old and is 9.9%abv and the Bourbon Barrel RIS is 24 months old and a bit of an unknown but over 10.8

I've got half a commercial keg left (I thought at one point it was all in the swap but no. There's every chance this swaps beer will be blended with it for next years swap. I have a Golden Strong fermenting out on a blend of two Belgian yeasts and might throw this on the cake.

The Bourbon RIS had the wee heavy (from XMAS in July 15) added as part of the original blend (20%) 

Just so people can make a call on when to drink it, cheers eh


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## Danscraftbeer (10/7/17)

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Get drinking fellas...
> 
> 16. Danscraftbeer (if I can rustle up 24 bottles of beer, I didn't plan etc ) I should be able to although they are just my standard house ale stuff, a couple of Stouts, Irish Red Ale.
> 
> ...



Yep: Mocha is a Coffee/Chocolate dry Robust Porter at 6.7%. FG = 1.009 but checked my notes and apparently I back sweetened with Lactose in the keg before bottling.

H+D Porter (High and Dry Porter at 8.2%) Yeah I know its way too high and dry for a Porter. Plugged into beersmith as a Baltic Porter that finished at 1.010.  Tasting one now tho and its low carbonation that is kinda appropriate maybe.

Red Earth is a Red Ale with Red Earth hops at 6.4%. I'd brew with more hops in hindsight.

Dry Session is the House Ale. Some details on the tag with home grown Victoria bittering, a little mosaic and Azacca late and Home grown Cascade for hop stand. Its a split batch and this split was diluted to make up a 40l ferment. So light and dry I lost the hop bomb character but hey its sessionable IMO.

I'm leaving my swappies for a week in the fridge to give them the best credit? My patience probably wont last that long actually but I'll give them ahh, at least a few days in the fridge first? 

Edited: after checking notes.


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## TheWiggman (10/7/17)

Just to add some MYSTERY to this swap I had 2 bottles (I think) unlabelled. Because I reused old swap bottles they probably have labels on them from an old swap. Mysterious!!!!!!!!! Trust me though you'll know it's mine.


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## AJ80 (10/7/17)

Get drinking fellas...

*7th July - 9th July Location: Idzy's Brewery - Ferntree Gully*

*Drink Now:*
4. AJ80 - grapefruit pale ale (Ready - drink fresh)
5. droid - Nefarious Villain; A three way blend of Stouts - drink now or let age, whatever you like
7. mofox1 - Monster Pale (drink now)
8.GrumpyPaul - Grapefruit Sour. (drink now) [Note there are 15 sours labelled 8 and 5 of the American Rye in this case labelled 8a)
9. mofox1 - Heady Topperish (drink now!)
13. TheWiggman - Haters' Wheat© (drink now)
14. GrumpyPaul – American Rye (drink now)


*Drink Later:*
3. DJ_L3THAL - English Brown - ready from September.
6. Midnight Brew, IPA - drink end of July.
11. Whiteferret - British Strong Ale (Give it a couple of months say September)


*TBC what it is and when to taste:*
1. Idzy
2. Husky
10. Shortybronx
12. Laxation - Stout, American style. Not quite ready
15. Tahoose
16. Danscraftbeer


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## laxation (11/7/17)

*7th July - 9th July Location: Idzy's Brewery - Ferntree Gully*

*Drink Now:*
4. AJ80 - grapefruit pale ale (Ready - drink fresh)
5. droid - Nefarious Villain; A three way blend of Stouts - drink now or let age, whatever you like
7. mofox1 - Monster Pale (drink now)
8.GrumpyPaul - Grapefruit Sour. (drink now) [Note there are 15 sours labelled 8 and 5 of the American Rye in this case labelled 8a)
9. mofox1 - Heady Topperish (drink now!)
13. TheWiggman - Haters' Wheat© (drink now)
14. GrumpyPaul – American Rye (drink now)


*Drink Later:*
3. DJ_L3THAL - English Brown - ready from September.
6. Midnight Brew, IPA - drink end of July.
11. Whiteferret - British Strong Ale (Give it a couple of months say September)
12. Laxation - Stout, American style. Bottled early June, but has been conditioning in a cold room. Will be better in a while.


*TBC what it is and when to taste:*
1. Idzy
2. Husky
10. Shortybronx
15. Tahoose
16. Danscraftbeer


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## GrumpyPaul (11/7/17)

No. Mofox's Heady Topperish.

Ive never had a Heady Topper - so I have nothing to compare to.

As a Double IPA - Awesome job Mick

Aroma - sensational fruity
Appearance - Golden Colour - bit on the cloudy. Nice white head.
Flavour - you can taste that this is a big beer - definitely a bit of alcohol on there. But pretty nicely balances. As it warmed the alcohol became more obvious - so for my tastes better drunk on the cold side.

Overall - great job Mick. 

Recipe please


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## droid (11/7/17)




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## Grott (11/7/17)

From what I see, how does anyone stay sober at this event? Or perhaps no one does. Certainly appears to be lots of fun (after the hard work)


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## GrumpyPaul (11/7/17)

nice pic...which beer?


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## droid (11/7/17)

droid said:


>


4 - AJ80 Grapefruit Pale

Pours a light caramel colour, hazy appearance - could be my bad or intended
head hangs on, not abundant or rocky, a little thin maybe from the acidity of the grapefruit addition, laces glass though fades quickly when the glass is sat, probably the same thing going on
fruity/yeasty aroma, not detectable grapefruit as an aroma
acidic mouthfeel, balls up and runs to the back of the mouth quickly, I like this acidity but more when it balls up in the mouth a little further forward, so for me probably a bit sour/bitter
blindfolded I'd guess grapefruit as the fruit in the aftertaste

overall impression
was expecting a more up-front grapefruit experience from ya AJ
it's one of those beers that causes you to pontificate, any time that happens it's good
I'd love to chat more about using natural ingredients to produce the acidity mate
well balanced - well put together

if only you hadn't refused the tag

hehe


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## Danscraftbeer (11/7/17)

Grott said:


> From what I see, how does anyone stay sober at this event?



Spit it out?  As if !!!!


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## mofox1 (11/7/17)

It's a #4 night tonight, it appears.

Wasn't sure if there was actual grapefruit in here or not - almost identical profile to late + dry hopped ahtanum. Topaz late has a similar effect although with more fruit. Moderate astringent citrus "peel" type bitterness coming through.. slightly sour as well? Makes sense if there is grapefruit here for realsies. Certainly finishes rather dry after a decent body up front

Very nice, but for me needed a bit more fruity hops late and/or a touch more sweetness to offset the sourness/astringency. Rather refreshing and if it was 30 degree it would be epically smashable.

Cheers AJ!


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## Danscraftbeer (11/7/17)

Whiteferret said:


> 11. Whiteferret - British Strong Ale (Give it a couple of months say September



Refrigerated or unrefrigerated? Just curious. All mine are in the fridge atm.


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## mofox1 (11/7/17)

GrumpyPaul said:


> No. Mofox's Heady Topperish.
> 
> Ive never had a Heady Topper - so I have nothing to compare to.


Join the club... If you could only buy them here :'(



GrumpyPaul said:


> As a Double IPA - Awesome job Mick
> 
> Aroma - sensational fruity
> Appearance - Golden Colour - bit on the cloudy. Nice white head.
> ...



Haziness is _probably_ the massive amount of dry hoping as it was bottled from the keg, although some of it would be from the yeast as it is a bit of a floater.

Double batch here:
https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/what-are-you-brewing-in-2017.93648/page-20#post-1451883

This batch dry hopped around 10 pts of final with:
40g Columbus
40g Moutere
55g Simcoe

and then 1pt above final in transfer to secondary with:
41g Apollo
23g Citra
21g Simcoe

CC'd 6 days after transfer to secondary when gravity was stable (1.016).

No keg hops this time... maybe next.


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## AJ80 (11/7/17)

Cheers for the feedback droid and mofox. All the acidity was from the grapefruit additions. There was 2L of grapefruit juice (I think this is what really dried the beer out) added to the fermenter after 5 days of fermentation as well as the finely shredded zest of a ruby red grapefruit soaked in vodka and then added (with the vodka) 5 days before bottling. Late hops were all Amarillo and mandarina Bavaria (1.5 g/L each in the cube and the same again as a 5 day dry hop). 

I too would have liked the grapefruit to be more prominent.


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## Whiteferret (11/7/17)

Danscraftbeer said:


> Refrigerated or unrefrigerated? Just curious. All mine are in the fridge atm.



Unrefridgerated would be best.


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## DJ_L3ThAL (12/7/17)

Grott said:


> From what I see, how does anyone stay sober at this event? Or perhaps no one does. Certainly appears to be lots of fun (after the hard work)



Sober....?

AFTER...?

[emoji23][emoji12]

Grotto I think you just signed up to the next swap [emoji6]


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## Nullnvoid (12/7/17)

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Sober....?
> 
> AFTER...?
> 
> ...



Awesome idea. I'll add Grott to the list of attendees


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## Tahoose (12/7/17)

Just a heads up my swap beer (no 15)which is a fortified stout will be ready to drink in sept.

Approx abv 6.5%

Hope you enjoy


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## Danscraftbeer (12/7/17)

*7th July - 9th July Location: Idzy's Brewery - Ferntree Gully*

*Drink Now:*
4. AJ80 - grapefruit pale ale (Ready - drink fresh)
5. droid - Nefarious Villain; A three way blend of Stouts - drink now or let age, whatever you like
7. mofox1 - Monster Pale (drink now)
8.GrumpyPaul - Grapefruit Sour. (drink now) [Note there are 15 sours labelled 8 and 5 of the American Rye in this case labelled 8a)
9. mofox1 - Heady Topperish (drink now!)
13. TheWiggman - Haters' Wheat© (drink now)
14. GrumpyPaul – American Rye (drink now)
16. Danscraftbeer. All mine are ready to drink. Bottled from kegs.



*Drink Later:*
3. DJ_L3THAL - English Brown - ready from September.
6. Midnight Brew, IPA - drink end of July.
11. Whiteferret - British Strong Ale (Give it a couple of months say September)
12. Laxation - Stout, American style. Bottled early June, but has been conditioning in a cold room. Will be better in a while.


*TBC what it is and when to taste:*
1. Idzy
2. Husky
10. Shortybronx
15. Tahoose


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## droid (12/7/17)

is this yours?


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## GrumpyPaul (12/7/17)

droid said:


> is this yours?



mmm doesn't look like mine


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## Danscraftbeer (12/7/17)

^^ haha @ Droid. Any details to that question? Like, number? label? was that to me or the whole bunch of us....

OK -
Disclaimer: I'm no connoisseur so forgive me for any vague laymen comments etc. I'll try.

First taste of the batch:
No.7 Monster Pale Ale: mozox
Fairly clear but not bright. Clearer than the pic above.. A Belgian/Saisonish style yeast. Spicy aroma. Nicely balanced. Has the linger spicy bitter sourish aftertaste kind of like citrus rind, or Grapefruit is the best description I could give. That's in a good way IMO. This more a summer type thing but I can appreciate these kind of sessionables any time of year.
Good white head and retention and leaves some great lasing on the glass.


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## droid (12/7/17)

how funny? that was a pic of what you also drank tonight ..

#7 mofox - Monster Pale

grapefruit on the nose
compact long lasting head
resinous
love the mouthfeel - the balance, I'm on the acidity tangent at the moment and this is right up my alley
slightly bitter back end for me
can't pick a hop, more of a team effort?

overall impression
very nice fruity beer
individual hop flavours masked by abundance
mouthfeel for me is on the money - love how the beer balls up in the mouth but patiently hangs around

if this was my brew my next one would be;
working on a bit more brightness, a bit more pop via acidity, carbonation, slightly less malt or maybe slightly more water to grist
trying to bring out some key hop flavours
enjoying the journey coz it's fecking good already and these are personal tweaks

thanks mate
2 good beers in already


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## TheWiggman (13/7/17)

12. Laxation - Stout. Shit first up I've picked the wrong bottle. Oh well review time. 
First thing I noticed is there's very little carb with little, but residual head. It has a strange sourness to it on the aroma and not much stout going on. Taste-wise similar: sour, sweet and has what I'd associate with 'kit twang'. Definitely has calling cards of cold conditioning and stressed yeast. Can't taste anything American about it. Sorry man, I hope it'll improve with age but I doubt it. Keep at it though and focus on healthy ferments (right amount of yeast at the right temp) and make sure the yeast is happy in the bottle.


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## TheWiggman (13/7/17)

14. GrumpyPaul - American Rye
Here's a new one, I've never brewed with rye before so was hoping to learn something from this. Well, I most certainly have. Very clean on the nose with very little going on with a pleasent, grainy beeriness - which seems like that's how it's supposed to be. It's quite dry and the rye is coming through in spades, with a wheat-like phenol character pairing with what seem like boil hops only with mild bitterness. A drinking beer for sure. Overall well balanced and a welcome variation on US beers as the restraint with the hops is not an easy thing to get right for the hop junky home brewer. I reckon if there was a bit more late Amarillo it'd work perfectly.


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## TheWiggman (13/7/17)

Hey I can upload attachments now


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## AJ80 (13/7/17)

9. Mofox - heady topperish

Mmmm yummy. Cracking beer mate. Hazy as with a thin head that is juuuuust hanging around. Fruit salad on the nose, but nothing over the top. Just right really. Very much enjoying the lower carb. Hop flavour is bang on, curious to know if this was chilled or no chilled. Bursting with hop flavour. Has the body of a high ABV, but no hot alcohols to my palate. Warming in the tummy though so I'd guess the ABV is up there. Very well fermenter beer. Delish mofox and thank you for sharing. What a great beer to start my swap tastings with!!


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## mofox1 (13/7/17)

AJ80 said:


> 9. Mofox - heady topperish
> 
> Mmmm yummy. Cracking beer mate. Hazy as with a thin head that is juuuuust hanging around. Fruit salad on the nose, but nothing over the top. Just right really. Very much enjoying the lower carb. Hop flavour is bang on, curious to know if this was chilled or no chilled. Bursting with hop flavour. Has the body of a high ABV, but no hot alcohols to my palate. Warming in the tummy though so I'd guess the ABV is up there. Very well fermenter beer. Delish mofox and thank you for sharing. What a great beer to start my swap tastings with!!



About 8%.

Cubed, but chilled to 75ish before adding 15g/L whirlpool hops for a 20 (30?) min hop stand before cubing... recipe posted earlier.

Big beers are fun.


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## laxation (14/7/17)

Ah bugger... was hoping it'd be a good one.


TheWiggman said:


> Definitely has calling cards of cold conditioning and stressed yeast.


What tells you this?
I was using bottle reconditioned yeast so maybe I screwed that up somewhere? or is stressed yeast from not using enough? From memory that was the first time I'd used the temp controller so it was a steady temp the whole way.
Cheers for the feedback - will make sure to do a good one for the next swap!


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## TheWiggman (14/7/17)

Hard to explain and I'm speaking from experience rather than education (i.e. I haven't been trained and learnt flavours anecdotally). The likes of MartinOC will tell you with more certainty and he is certainly honest with his feedback.
What I tasted in your beer was characteristic of an insufficient yeast pitch or unhealthy yeast, and considering you've said you did a bottle recondition then it lines up. In my opinion there was not enough healthy yeast in your beer so it's probably a twofold problem - a bit of yeast mutation and inadequate yeast pitch. The problem with yeast management is there are so many things that can go wrong with it and a lot of factors to consider:

OG of the wort - higher OG needs more yeast
Volume of the beer

Age of the yeast
Storage of the yeast

Handling and temp changes prior to pitching
Mutation, particularly from reuse
OG of the previous beer after reculturing matters, if it's too high the yeast will throw off flavours and likely stall early
If stepping up, yeast count:volume has a huge impact on mutation, particularly for lagers
Oxygen in wort solution
Yeast count - some beers (like my Hater's Wheat) call for lower yeast pitches to get certain flavours, but this is rare
Different yeast strains prefer different conditions

Etc. etc. etc.
You're on the money with temp control, that's the first step to good ferments. If I were you though I wouldn't do reculturing just yet (I'm assuming that's what you meant by "bottle reconditioned") and focus on getting solid pitches of healthy yeast. If going dry, look at rehydrating and follow the instructions to the letter. If your OG is over 1.050 for a 23l brew, use 2 packs. I've never heard of complaints from over-pitching on a home brew level. Another easy improvement is using yeast nutrient, it's only a few cents per brew and completely worth it.
On a personal note I have recultured a few times and wasn't sold on it, with the exception of one Coopers Pale Ale clone. I use liquid yeast 90% of the time (I've maybe used dry yeast 3 times since going AG) and probably spend more effort focussing on yeast than brewing wort. I'd attribute any success I've got from brewing lagers: get lagers right and you'll nail ales, but make sure you get ales right before trying lagers. I've tipped out bad beers before so it's not like I haven't made mistakes, I just make sure I learn from them.
Ed: forgot to add, when bottle conditioning if the temp is too cold and the yeast count inadequate for the you'll exacerbate the problem. I didn't get any diacetyl though so I'm guessing you used a US yeast strain and likely saw the ferment through.


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## Midnight Brew (14/7/17)

Exceptional feedback Wiggman!


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## MartinOC (14/7/17)

TheWiggman said:


> The likes of MartinOC will tell you with more certainty and he is certainly honest with his feedback..



Sorry to disappoint, but I'm not in the swap, so don't have anything to sample & provide feedback.

Also, I've not been "trained", I've just tried a lot of beers over the years.  Haven't judged in a VERY long time...


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## GrumpyPaul (14/7/17)

TheWiggman said:


> 14. GrumpyPaul - American Rye
> Here's a new one, I've never brewed with rye before so was hoping to learn something from this. Well, I most certainly have. Very clean on the nose with very little going on with a pleasent, grainy beeriness - which seems like that's how it's supposed to be. It's quite dry and the rye is coming through in spades, with a wheat-like phenol character pairing with what seem like boil hops only with mild bitterness. A drinking beer for sure. Overall well balanced and a welcome variation on US beers as the restraint with the hops is not an easy thing to get right for the hop junky home brewer. I reckon if there was a bit more late Amarillo it'd work perfectly.



Wiggman - thanks for the feedback.

I was surprised by the "wheat like phenol" too. I wanted to brew something easydrinking and a c hange from all the heavily hopped IPA's Ive been doing lately. Picked this style out of the AABC style guidlines (see below) and went hunting for and American Rye rcipe. In hindsight it shouldn have that phenol.

I agree that it would work with some late hop additions - might not be strictly to style if it did, but who care.

*
16.1 American Wheat or Rye Beer [BJCP]


Aroma*: Low to moderate grainy wheat or rye character. Some malty sweetness is acceptable. Esters can be

moderate to none, although should reflect American yeast strains. The clove and banana aromas common to German hefeweizens are inappropriate. Hop aroma may be low to moderate, and can have either a citrusy American or a spicy or floral noble hop character. Slight crisp sharpness is optional. No diacetyl.

*Appearance*: Usually pale yellow to gold. Clarity may range from brilliant to hazy with yeast approximating the German hefeweizen style of beer. Big, long-lasting white head.

*Flavour*: Light to moderately strong grainy wheat or rye flavour, which can linger into the finish. Rye versions are richer and spicier than wheat. May have a moderate malty sweetness or finish quite dry. Low to moderate hop bitterness, which sometimes lasts into the finish. Low to moderate hop flavour (citrusy American or spicy/floral noble). Esters can be moderate to none, but should not take on a German Weizen character (banana). No clove phenols, although a light spiciness from wheat or rye is acceptable. May have a slightly crisp or sharp finish. No diacetyl.

*Mouthfeel*: Medium-light to medium body. Medium-high to high carbonation. May have a light alcohol warmth in stronger examples.

*Overall Impression*: Refreshing wheat or rye beers that can display more hop character and less yeast character than their German cousins.

Ironically I was looking at brewing something to enter into category that didnt have huge entry numbers in Vicbrew such as Wheats. The new 2017 AABC style has moved American Rye into "Specialties" so if I do enter it will now be in the biggest category.


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## TheWiggman (14/7/17)

Spewing. Reading through the the style guides I think you've nailed it, all my comments - in isolation of the guide - are on the money bar the phenol. I get the two confused but I think it's more of an ester. I don't like the clove flavour in general, this didn't exhibit it. Moderate hop flavour is acceptable so would still be to style, but I'd only edge it in. I think if you entered it it would score well. I'd give it 38/50 oats.


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## DJ_L3ThAL (14/7/17)

Oats?? [emoji23][emoji23]


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## technobabble66 (14/7/17)

FTW, dude. 
Oats FTW.


----------



## AJ80 (14/7/17)

8.GrumpyPaul - Grapefruit Sour

Stop. You had me at sour. 

This is a really nice sour mate. Slight haze in the appearance which is a lovely golden straw. No head to speak of, but that's expected with a sour. A really thirst quenching sourness in the flavour. I get the grapefruit vibe too. Nothing over the top RE sourness and is well balanced. This would be a ripper on a hot Saturday arvo. Very clean ferment. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Danscraftbeer (14/7/17)

3: DJ_L3THAL. English Brown. Drink Sep 2017 Oops! I read that after Opening it... 
I opened this because feeling the bottles this was the hardest in pressure so I fridged it 5 days then tryed 2 smallish samples. I then squeesed the head space out, carbonation capped it and repressurized and put back in the fridge for september. No harm done, Gotta love carb caps. So I will try it again in Sep. 

This is very nice. Not in the realm of style I've brewed yet. Higher carbonation, quick to make a head but doesn't last thats interesting considering it has a nice body and mouthfeel.
Aroma yum, flavour yum. Like the way it has the character of a higher Alcohol beer than 4.7%. Seems more like 6% that's a good characteristic sometimes. Better then the odd anything I've bought in that realm. 
Obviously using different ingredients then I go to. Love to see the recipe I really like this.


----------



## Shortybronx (15/7/17)

I added mine to the description. I found a google doc I made when making this. So I found what I was going for. Sorry for the vagueness originally.

10. Shortybronx - Tried to replicate Sierra Nervada Pale Ale for my first all grain.... I think I missed the mark, but still I like it. Enjoy

*7th July - 9th July Location: Idzy's Brewery - Ferntree Gully*

*Drink Now:*
4. AJ80 - grapefruit pale ale (Ready - drink fresh)
5. droid - Nefarious Villain; A three way blend of Stouts - drink now or let age, whatever you like
7. mofox1 - Monster Pale (drink now)
8.GrumpyPaul - Grapefruit Sour. (drink now) [Note there are 15 sours labelled 8 and 5 of the American Rye in this case labelled 8a)
9. mofox1 - Heady Topperish (drink now!)
13. TheWiggman - Haters' Wheat© (drink now)
14. GrumpyPaul – American Rye (drink now)
16. Danscraftbeer. All mine are ready to drink. Bottled from kegs.



*Drink Later:*
3. DJ_L3THAL - English Brown - ready from September.
6. Midnight Brew, IPA - drink end of July.
11. Whiteferret - British Strong Ale (Give it a couple of months say September)
12. Laxation - Stout, American style. Bottled early June, but has been conditioning in a cold room. Will be better in a while.


*TBC what it is and when to taste:*
1. Idzy
2. Husky
10. Shortybronx
15. Tahoose


----------



## GrumpyPaul (15/7/17)

is it ready to drink now Shorty?


----------



## Shortybronx (15/7/17)

GrumpyPaul said:


> is it ready to drink now Shorty?


I think so..to be honest dont know if its the type of beer that gets better with age. If say drink it haha


----------



## GrumpyPaul (15/7/17)

4. AJ80 - grapefruit pale ale (Ready - drink fresh)

Drinking this with MrsGrumpy and her girlfriend. Now MrsGrumpy is very hard to please when it comes to beer.....You've done well AJ her first reaction was "I quite like this"...

Appearance - Nice golden colour. A bit cloudy. NIce white head - didn't last long but nice lacing.
Lovely aroma - smells delicious. Nice and fruity.
Taste - can taste the grapefruit. Well balanced beer - just the right amount of bitterness.

Good Job AJ


----------



## droid (16/7/17)

tasty!


----------



## Shortybronx (16/7/17)

Ok... beer 7. Tastes good. My kind of beer. A hint of smokyness and nicely bittered. I like it. Going to enjoy the rest in the shower. Goes down well after sport. Whoever made I'm jealous of your skills


----------



## droid (16/7/17)

8a - Grumpy Paul

look at it ^^ 
such an easy ale to sidle up to - it's James Bond smooth but I'm not sure what that means
this was had from the shed and probably 6dC or maybe more???
I don't know much about Rye, it reminds me of a Celtic Red or an English Brown - the body is divine, low-carbed but it lends itself to this
clean yeast character - what yeast is this GP? has this beer got a bit of bubblegum in a good way?
damn it - it's gone!

it _was_ malty and lovely and surely is a crowd pleaser, I was hoping for the sour but this is a beer that can hold it's own in any company, ok well it would have a place at my brew-pub anyway

cheers GP!


----------



## GrumpyPaul (16/7/17)

droid said:


> 8a - Grumpy Paul
> 
> what yeast is this GP?
> 
> cheers GP!



Where the bubblegum comes from is a mystery to me. The yeast was just Mangrove Jacks M44 US West Coast. 

However it was doing its second tour of duty - it was used first up in the sour. I saved about a litre of the trub. Let it settle in fridge overnight, rinsed it and tipped it straight into the American Rye.


----------



## TheWiggman (17/7/17)

16. Danscraftbeer - Session Ale low carb blah blah
I wrote something up on the phone last night but it vanished when posted it - getting shitty with the app since the upgrade. I'll do my best to recall.
Low carb? This thing was spritzier than an Aussie champagne knockoff (zing!). I served it in a headmaster glass which necessitated knocking the froth off a few times, though the head was persistent and held itself well. Aromatically it was mostly floral hops with little if any malt until the glass was finished. Nothing really to fault there. To taste though the hops are definitely there and has a Galaxy character. There's little/nothing in the way of malt but I think it's masked by the hops. I associate Galaxy with tea flavours, and this didn't dominate but still came across like Galaxy. Personally I don't like Galaxy but I wasn't too off-put by this. It is dry as the fancy little label promised, but a little too bitter to make it sessionable for me. A longneck no worries, but I couldn't spend a night drinking it. I think if the bitterness was backed off a frag it is would make for a very approachable beer to wannabe hipsters and newcomers to the world of hops. But then again maybe others will love it as-is, we all have our own tastes. A good showing.


----------



## laxation (17/7/17)

I had the #4 grapefruit on Saturday night and absolutely loved it... really nice hint of grapefruit in it that gave a nice bitterness.

I've got a tree full of grapefruit I'll never eat - is it hard to add into the beer?


----------



## TheWiggman (17/7/17)

It worked for bananas, why not make a grapefruit wine?
1. Cut grapefruits into slices leaving peel on
2. Boil and add a shit-ton of sugar
3. Put contents in a fermenter and add some wine yeast
4. Leave it sit for a year because the internet said so ok?
5. Bottle
6. Blow minds at swap


----------



## laxation (17/7/17)

Haha that banana wine was delicious!

I keep thinking grapefruit wine would taste like ass (I don't even like grapefruit...) but then up until last weekend I would have thought banana wine would taste like ass as well.

I'll look into it (and free grapefruit all round if anyone else wants to try - we get heaps on our tree)


----------



## AJ80 (17/7/17)

TheWiggman said:


> It worked for bananas, why not make a grapefruit wine?
> 1. Cut grapefruits into slices leaving peel on
> 2. Boil and add a shit-ton of sugar
> 3. Put contents in a fermenter and add some wine yeast
> ...



Ha! That banana wine was surprisingly popular. 

Laxation - the other option is to juice a heap of grapefruit, freeze the juice in a sanitised container (freezing should kill most bugs) and then add the defrosted juice to a partially fermented beer. The other option is taking some zest, steep it in vodka for a week or so and add both to finished fermenting beer and leave for a few days before bottling. 

I'm planning on grapefruit zesting a small portion of sour when I get round to bottling one of my batches currently on the go.


----------



## AJ80 (17/7/17)

Danscraftbeer - Mocha

Delish mate. Great for sipping in front of the fire after an RDO spent in the garden.

Jet black with no head retention (looks like coke). Aroma hints at the coffee which really kicks in on the flavour front. Well balanced espresso coffee flavour that's not overpowering nor astringent. Going by the name of the beer I'm assuming there's been a chocolate addition too of some description. I'm looking for it, but can't really find it. Delicious regardless and thank you for sharing.

Edit: just gave the wife a sniff of the beer (she refuses to drink all beer unless it's a sour...that's my gal!). She says it smells like dark chocolate. Must just be my stuffed palate!


----------



## Midnight Brew (18/7/17)

TheWiggman said:


> It worked for bananas, why not make a grapefruit wine?
> 1. Cut grapefruits into slices leaving peel on
> 2. Boil and add a shit-ton of sugar
> 3. Put contents in a fermenter and add some wine yeast
> ...


 
I take it I wasn't the only one to ask for the recipe haha


----------



## Danscraftbeer (19/7/17)

TheWiggman said:


> 16. Danscraftbeer - Session Ale low carb blah blah
> I wrote something up on the phone last night but it vanished when posted it - getting shitty with the app since the upgrade. I'll do my best to recall.
> Low carb? This thing was spritzier than an Aussie champagne knockoff (zing!). I served it in a headmaster glass which necessitated knocking the froth off a few times, though the head was persistent and held itself well. Aromatically it was mostly floral hops with little if any malt until the glass was finished. Nothing really to fault there. To taste though the hops are definitely there and has a Galaxy character. There's little/nothing in the way of malt but I think it's masked by the hops. I associate Galaxy with tea flavours, and this didn't dominate but still came across like Galaxy. Personally I don't like Galaxy but I wasn't too off-put by this. It is dry as the fancy little label promised, but a little too bitter to make it sessionable for me. A longneck no worries, but I couldn't spend a night drinking it. I think if the bitterness was backed off a frag it is would make for a very approachable beer to wannabe hipsters and newcomers to the world of hops. But then again maybe others will love it as-is, we all have our own tastes. A good showing.


Cheers Wiggman.
Low Carb, (Low Carbohydrates) should have been written as Low Cal. (Calories etc) I agree it comes across too bitter from the bottle. Strangely enough from the keg to me it seemed 35IBU. Tasting from the bottle it seems like 45IBU. I can only conclude its because I boosted up the carbonation in the keg too much for bottling and the higher carbonation raised the perception of more bitterness maybe. Admittedly I can session this balance. 
No Galaxy. Victoria for bittering, Cascade (home grown) for late additions with a tad of both Mosaic and Azzacca so its in the character of Galaxy, without the Galaxy ha.


----------



## Danscraftbeer (19/7/17)

8: Wow. This one took me by surprise. Very pale, no head. It smells yeasty, bready. Then the flavor I was not expecting at all. So this is one of the sours.
Its a tad too sour for me, makes me pucker and pull funny faces at first then better when my palate gets used to it. I can appreciate it. I recall a convo with GrumpyPaul on this one I think. Kettle soured then brewed with US-05? I get it now. The US-05 I know so well is the aroma, I think I recall he said he let it sour longer than planned. 
Less on the sour and would be great served very cold on a hot day.
ps: This is not the 8a that was posted a picture of previously. Much paler than the one pictured.


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## droid (20/7/17)

*7th July - 9th July Location: Idzy's Brewery - Ferntree Gully*

*Drink Now:*
4. AJ80 - grapefruit pale ale (Ready - drink fresh)
7. mofox1 - Monster Pale (drink now)
8.GrumpyPaul - Grapefruit Sour. (drink now) [Note there are 15 sours labelled 8 and 5 of the American Rye in this case labelled 8a)
9. mofox1 - Heady Topperish (drink now!)
10. Shortybronx - Sierra Nevada Pale Ale
13. TheWiggman - Haters' Wheat© (drink now)
14. GrumpyPaul – American Rye (drink now)
16. Danscraftbeer. All mine are ready to drink. Bottled from kegs.




*Drink Later:*
3. DJ_L3THAL - English Brown - ready from September.
5. droid - Nefarious Villain; A three way blend of Stouts - let age and put a carb cap on if you can when cold to bump the carb up
6. Midnight Brew, IPA - drink end of July.
11. Whiteferret - British Strong Ale (Give it a couple of months say September)
12. Laxation - Stout, American style. Bottled early June, but has been conditioning in a cold room. Will be better in a while.


*TBC what it is and when to taste:*
1. Idzy
2. Husky
15. Tahoose


----------



## droid (20/7/17)

13. TheWiggman - Haters' Wheat© (drink now)

I missed out on a bottle of this !


----------



## mofox1 (20/7/17)

droid said:


> 13. TheWiggman - Haters' Wheat[emoji767] (drink now)
> 
> I missed out on a bottle of this !



Probably because the bottles weren't li... nah, sure it was fine. ;-)


----------



## TheWiggman (20/7/17)

You've probably got a bottle droid, some of the earlier collectors grabbed 2 of my bottles which were missing labels. It'll be in there someone. Being a re-used bottle there's also a chance it's got a number on it already which is admittedly piss-poor on my part.


----------



## droid (20/7/17)

TheWiggman said:


> You've probably got a bottle droid, some of the earlier collectors grabbed 2 of my bottles which were missing labels. It'll be in there someone. Being a re-used bottle there's also a chance it's got a number on it already which is admittedly piss-poor on my part.


Through the process of elimination I shall find it!


----------



## laxation (20/7/17)

Wiggman were yours in the glass bottles?


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## laxation (20/7/17)

Midnight Brew - I tried your IPA the other day and it was delicious. I thought it was one I could drink now, but wasn't too far off... luckily I have two of them 
Even though it was lacking a bit of head (probably because I was early..), I thought it was great. Super drinkable and I wish I had more of it - could have kept going all night. Looking forward to the next one!


----------



## TheWiggman (20/7/17)

Nope, I had swap-friendly P.E.T. containing liquid gold


----------



## MartinOC (20/7/17)

Shortybronx said:


> Going to enjoy the rest in the shower.



Don't do that, you silly bugger - you'll dilute it with shampoo & soap!


----------



## TheWiggman (20/7/17)

9. mofox1 - Heady Topperish (drink now!)
I'm prepared to be wrong about this and I hope it's the only such example, but when I cracked the lid on this all I could smell was diacetyl. It has a hint of hoppiness hanging in the background but muted by the big D. Not overpowering, but evident all the same. It pours a very hazy orange with a green tint that alludes the the presence of most likely a shitload of hops. The heady and carbonation look bang on. Well there are hops in this alright. I'm getting diacetyl on the palate but the piney hops are pushing through, along with the juicy bitterness and alcoholic warmth. No way I'm driving after this bottle. There's ample body and enough interest in the malt to support the hop show going on. I'm left wondering how good it would be if... well, I think I've said the word enough. I'd like to reiterate that this is a strong beer and probably over the original's 8%. That or I'm a lightweight.
I've got a second bottle, I'll let you know how it turns out. My guess it'll be similar and keen to hear what others think


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL (20/7/17)

TheWiggman said:


> 9. mofox1 - Heady Topperish (drink now!)
> I'm prepared to be wrong about this and I hope it's the only such example, but when I cracked the lid on this all I could smell was diacetyl. It has a hint of hoppiness hanging in the background but muted by the big D. Not overpowering, but evident all the same. It pours a very hazy orange with a green tint that alludes the the presence of most likely a shitload of hops. The heady and carbonation look bang on. Well there are hops in this alright. I'm getting diacetyl on the palate but the piney hops are pushing through, along with the juicy bitterness and alcoholic warmth. No way I'm driving after this bottle. There's ample body and enough interest in the malt to support the hop show going on. I'm left wondering how good it would be if... well, I think I've said the word enough. I'd like to reiterate that this is a strong beer and probably over the original's 8%. That or I'm a lightweight.
> I've got a second bottle, I'll let you know how it turns out. My guess it'll be similar and keen to hear what others think



I proved I can't taste/smell the difference between DMS and diacetyl at the swap, so can't put hand on heart. But I just cracked this and whoaaaaaa hops hops hops hops hops, bitterness, hops, repeat.

Can't pickup anything that stands out as wrong. Love the tingle/zing presumably from the hops at the end of the palate.

Great job at a bold and beautiful beer mofox, thanks. Think I'll be asleep at the end of this longneck which tops off a busy week [emoji106]


----------



## mofox1 (20/7/17)

TheWiggman said:


> 9. mofox1 - Heady Topperish (drink now!)
> I'm prepared to be wrong about this and I hope it's the only such example, but when I cracked the lid on this all I could smell was diacetyl. It has a hint of hoppiness hanging in the background but muted by the big D. Not overpowering, but evident all the same. It pours a very hazy orange with a green tint that alludes the the presence of most likely a shitload of hops. The heady and carbonation look bang on. Well there are hops in this alright. I'm getting diacetyl on the palate but the piney hops are pushing through, along with the juicy bitterness and alcoholic warmth. No way I'm driving after this bottle. There's ample body and enough interest in the malt to support the hop show going on. I'm left wondering how good it would be if... well, I think I've said the word enough. I'd like to reiterate that this is a strong beer and probably over the original's 8%. That or I'm a lightweight.
> I've got a second bottle, I'll let you know how it turns out. My guess it'll be similar and keen to hear what others think


Bummer! They *should* all be the same... bottled from keg. As far as I could tell, it was tasting pretty damn awesome from the keg. Not necessarily perfect, but no major faults I could tell.

I've still got a couple of the extra bottles here, I'll have to grab one and see if there is anything different about it. Unfortunately keg blew previous week, so I can't do a side by side.

Looking forward to more feedback - I was (still am) pretty stoked with this one.
*
Edit:* It's only a touch over at 8.4% due to the OG being 2 pts over the intended 1.076. Definitely a light-weight wiggas .


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## TheWiggman (20/7/17)

Maybe I'm like Shortybronx and cherry?
Ed: SO MAYBE I AM MOFOX WHAT OF IT? I hate coming across as negative in the review but I'm reflecting on what I was getting in the beer and my knowledge/experience (and lack thereof). It came across as diacetyl to me but also crossed the lines of possible bad bottle. I've had infections that have ruined tastebuds and this kinda reminded me of both. After getting through a few sips the perception wasn't so bad and like I said, it oozed pine (which I prefer over citrus). In saying that there was a tart lingering mouth feel which reminded me of orange peel. Shows how much hop juice was in there. 
Considering you kegged I'm backing this was early stages of a bad bottle, but I drank the whole thing so not like I didn't enjoy it. 
That swap DMS beer - sorry droid you were the demo exhibit here - was an eye opener for me because originally I was told it was diacetyl. I thought "holy shit, I've been wrong this whole time!" but it was later confirmed as DMS. One of the reasons getting together with fellow brewers is great for learning, we can share experiences from knowledgeable brewers.


----------



## droid (21/7/17)

which beer was that?

DMS exhibit? that's just a fecking lovely way to roll into a Friday, having read that at 5.40am

I can feel a feck youse all coming on


----------



## TheWiggman (21/7/17)

Ha, did nobody say anything? Pretty sure you had the Little Creatures Bright Ale keg. It definitely had some sort of fault and we were informed it was DMS. No such issue with your other beers though.


----------



## droid (21/7/17)

You assume too much grasshopper!

I only had bottles at the swap, I handed out some tags earlier in the year at a colab brew., which turned up on a keg at the swap. My marketing is starting to pay off with these tags.

But even so I think Martin picked up DMS in my Euro Lager


----------



## MartinOC (21/7/17)

Droid, you're right. It was the Euro Lager I picked up DMS in. It comes across as the smell of canned sweetcorn.

Usually comes from lager/pils malts with a short boil &/or a covered boil. 'Hope that helps.


----------



## malt junkie (21/7/17)

the LCBA keg was mine, no DMS in that, under carbed due to the drive, but otherwise was there for a break from the litany of high ABV offerings!


----------



## TheWiggman (21/7/17)

Now I'm hella confused.
The Little Creatures keg had 'something' not right with it. I was told there was a keg with classic diacetyl so a few of us gathered around to sample. To my taste/understanding it wasn't, but I definitely agreed it had a butterscotch smell about it which is the common descriptor. _[side note: a mate RUINED a beer once with some wort I made with everything that would produce diacetyl (underpitch, UK yeast brewed too cool, bottled too early, stored cool) so that's a fault I can pick up straight away. When I've bottled lagers in the past I got the same flavours. I associate diacetyl with crystal/candied sugar flavour]_ We all sampled and talked about it, adjusted our monocles and straightened our lapels feeling we'd broadened our knowledge.
Around the campfire the DMS discussion was arisen and somehow - perhaps being about 10 standard drinks under by the point - a few of us mixed us the conversion about droid's lager and the Little Creatures keg. Martin was describing how all he got was creamed corn on the aroma. I was a little baffled because I was thinking of a different beer, hence why I thought the keg was droid's.
Simples!


----------



## malt junkie (21/7/17)

also I had a Droid label on it


----------



## Mardoo (21/7/17)

Droid, your marketing may be sending the wrong message. Like the Ford Gelding .

BTW your Stout blend was ace. It's going to age in a very interesting fashion. My prediction is that every 6 months it'll be a different beer. Split that sucker into 3 or 4 9-litre kegs and drink one every 6 or 8 months. Should be interesting.


----------



## MartinOC (21/7/17)

Gents, my off-sider at work is a National-rated BJCP judge & runs the Melb.-based judge-training sessions.

I'll get into his ear on Monday & see if I can score some "tainting" vials that I can use at the next case swap to introduce everyone to the usually-encountered faults, so everyone can get a handle on them if there's interest in doing so?

It'll mean buying a case (or two) of something bland & awful as the base beer, but might be good as a learning experience for everyone?

I haven't judged in a VERY long time, but I'm happy to walk folks through stuff & do the show & tell with a triangle test.


----------



## AJ80 (21/7/17)

droid said:


> My marketing is starting to pay off with these tags.



You were pushing keg tags at the swap? Why droid I had no idea. I'm sure I would have taken some if they were offered to me...


----------



## AJ80 (21/7/17)

10. Shortybronx Sierra Nevada pale ale clone

This is a nice pale ale mate. Dark golden straw colour with minimal haze and a thin head that's juuuuuuust hanging around. A hint of fruit on the nose and that's about it. Flavour is ok, malt bill seems good to me, but the hops are lacking a touch. For my mind, I'd decrease the bitterness just a touch and up the late/dry hops a reasonableness amount. Still Ann enjoyable beer and thank you for sharing. Welcome to the case swap family!


----------



## droid (21/7/17)

AJ80 said:


> You were pushing keg tags at the swap? Why droid I had no idea. I'm sure I would have taken some if they were offered to me...



oh yeah, sure


----------



## droid (21/7/17)

MartinOC said:


> Droid, you're right. It was the Euro Lager I picked up DMS in. It comes across as the smell of canned sweetcorn.
> 
> Usually comes from lager/pils malts with a short boil &/or a covered boil. 'Hope that helps.


Thanks mate, naturally at the time I wanted to slap you but yes, it was a bush brew with a few corners cut


----------



## Danscraftbeer (21/7/17)

I missed out on all these questionables, Diacytils and DMS's. 
Is that what was going on around the fire circle when the happily inebriated plebs were bagging the spent grains? 

Actually very interested in being able to distinguishing these off flavors. I know I have got them before but defining is refinement etc.


----------



## Shortybronx (21/7/17)

AJ80 said:


> 10. Shortybronx Sierra Nevada pale ale clone
> 
> This is a nice pale ale mate. Dark golden straw colour with minimal haze and a thin head that's juuuuuuust hanging around. A hint of fruit on the nose and that's about it. Flavour is ok, malt bill seems good to me, but the hops are lacking a touch. For my mind, I'd decrease the bitterness just a touch and up the late/dry hops a reasonableness amount. Still Ann enjoyable beer and thank you for sharing. Welcome to the case swap family!



Cheers mate. I really have no idea in the beer world so i just fumbled along. Glad it wasnt to bad.


----------



## AJ80 (23/7/17)

The wiggman hater's wheat

Haters gonna hate, taters gonna po-tate. 

Nice wheat beer mate. Lots of clove on the nose, cloudy golden straw appearance and great head retention and glass lacing. Flavour is really well balanced between clove, bubblegum and banana. This is a very enjoyable beer. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## TheWiggman (23/7/17)

4. AJ - Grapefruit Pale
Timely. Looks textbook, slightly hazy with a standard orange / lightly burnt copper hue. On the fizzier side of carb which for mine is par. A hint of hops and bitter citrus on the nose. Flavour-wise... a winner. It's a US pale ale with nothing that shouts out and everything that talks collectively. I recall others saying otherwise, but I'm getting a hint of grapefruit on the citrus edge of the hops and a tangy aftertaste that reminds me of that feeling on your teeth about 10 mins after devouring a juicy grapefruit after breakfast. Honestly to my tastes the balance is superb.
This is up there with Nullnvoid's showing last year. I'm finding very little to fault, I hope I grabbed two of these.
Ed: I like grapefruit, a polarising fruit but an important qualier


----------



## Midnight Brew (23/7/17)

8a American Rye - Grumpy Paul
Deep golden colour with little head and a hint of fruit ester in the aroma. Flavour is well balanced, malt sweet upfront then a nice refreshing spicy bitterness (I assume rye lends to the spicey edge). The bitterness is smooth. Very smooth. The flavour reminds me of this wheat beer ferment I had where I got this bubblegum charter that was quiet pleasant, this beer has that character toned down heaps but still pleasant. The body is quiet full, even with the small amount of carbonation. This beer is filling.

I really love that yeast character, what yeast did you use and what temperature?
How much rye?


----------



## mofox1 (23/7/17)

AJ80 said:


> The wiggman hater's wheat
> 
> Haters gonna hate, taters gonna po-tate.
> 
> Nice wheat beer mate. Lots of clove on the nose, cloudy golden straw appearance and great head retention and glass lacing. Flavour is really well balanced between clove, bubblegum and banana. This is a very enjoyable beer. Thanks for sharing.



I've been holding back on the reviews a bit. This was a standout brew for me. Not because of any particular attribute, but, like what you said about AJ's beer, it doesn't "scream" anything (yeah, looking at my brews here). It's nicely tied together, very clean palate other than the obvious wheat presence. I got the clove and somewhat subdued banana, but not the bubblegum which for me is a good thing. Decent carb and light body meant this went down fairly quick.

The only detractor is that I'm usually rather seasonal with my wheat beers... Bring on summer and bring on the wheats!


----------



## GrumpyPaul (23/7/17)

Midnight Brew said:


> 8a American Rye - Grumpy Paul
> Deep golden colour with little head and a hint of fruit ester in the aroma. Flavour is well balanced, malt sweet upfront then a nice refreshing spicy bitterness (I assume rye lends to the spicey edge). The bitterness is smooth. Very smooth. The flavour reminds me of this wheat beer ferment I had where I got this bubblegum charter that was quiet pleasant, this beer has that character toned down heaps but still pleasant. The body is quiet full, even with the small amount of carbonation. This beer is filling.
> 
> I really love that yeast character, what yeast did you use and what temperature?
> How much rye?



The yeast is just Mangrove Jacks M44 US West Coast. - so it really wasnt a wheat yeast as such.I really dont know how it got that bubblegum/wheat flavour.

I dont know if re-using the yeast after it was used in the sour has any affect on the yeast or not. It was fermented at 18 until finished then cranked up to 22 for a D-rest for a couple of days before chilling


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## Midnight Brew (24/7/17)

GrumpyPaul said:


> The yeast is just Mangrove Jacks M44 US West Coast. - so it really wasnt a wheat yeast as such.I really dont know how it got that bubblegum/wheat flavour.
> 
> I dont know if re-using the yeast after it was used in the sour has any affect on the yeast or not. It was fermented at 18 until finished then cranked up to 22 for a D-rest for a couple of days before chilling


Worked for me either way haha it managed to get in there.


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## TheWiggman (24/7/17)

Was it not just the rye?


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## TheWiggman (28/7/17)

10. Shortybronx - Sierra Nervada Pale Ale
I'm going to don my constructive hat but I do feel like I'm a negative Nancy or just very hard to impress. I tried this not knowing what/who brewed it (just reached into the fridge) and tried to put together feedback based on 'the unknown'.
In the glass this was a very impressive looking beer with excellent clarity and head that lingered around. A little low on carb. Unfortunately that's all the good stuff I can say about it. Aromatically I'm not getting any hops and that flavour I call diacetyl - toffee-like, minor bit of bread in the background, plasticky and not very much in the way of beer. To drink it's quite off-putting, lingering and harsh bitterness with no dominant malt or hop flavour. I'd go as far as to say this is probably infected and unfortunately a tipper.


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## DJ_L3ThAL (29/7/17)

7th July - 9th July Location: Idzy's Brewery - Ferntree Gully

Drink ASAP:
3. DJ_L3THAL - English Brown - sorry guys has come to my attention (thanks Wiggman and mofox) that this batch fermented more than it appeared it would in the bottled. The wlp002 seemed to stall at 1.020 and even after blowing CO2 up the conical yeast cone to rouse yeast, bump of temp and a fresh pitch of us05 it did not budge a point over 3 weeks so I bottled.
Looks like it has woken up in the bottle and they are quite firm so definitely ensure these at the very least in the fridge and if possible drink now. Apologies for the hassle!!


Drink Now:
4. AJ80 - grapefruit pale ale (Ready - drink fresh)
7. mofox1 - Monster Pale (drink now)
8.GrumpyPaul - Grapefruit Sour. (drink now) [Note there are 15 sours labelled 8 and 5 of the American Rye in this case labelled 8a)
9. mofox1 - Heady Topperish (drink now!)
10. Shortybronx - Sierra Nevada Pale Ale
13. TheWiggman - Haters' Wheat[emoji767] (drink now)
14. GrumpyPaul – American Rye (drink now)
16. Danscraftbeer. All mine are ready to drink. Bottled from kegs.




Drink Later:
5. droid - Nefarious Villain; A three way blend of Stouts - let age and put a carb cap on if you can when cold to bump the carb up
6. Midnight Brew, IPA - drink end of July.
11. Whiteferret - British Strong Ale (Give it a couple of months say September)
12. Laxation - Stout, American style. Bottled early June, but has been conditioning in a cold room. Will be better in a while.


TBC what it is and when to taste:
1. Idzy
2. Husky
15. Tahoose


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## Mardoo (29/7/17)

The brown has awoken! Flee! FLEEEEEE!!!!


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## technobabble66 (29/7/17)

He's not called DJ_L3ThAL for nothing!

[emoji1]


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## laxation (29/7/17)

you son of a bitch, now i'll have to drink that today. how dare you.


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## DJ_L3ThAL (29/7/17)

Well, it must be said I have about 6 long necks of it which are now in the fridge. I won't be rushing in to drinking them as being PET and the fact Lethal is my surname...... But to avoid being responsible for some beery mess in your homes I would suggest enjoying asap!


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## Danscraftbeer (29/7/17)

There you go I actually made a good call drinking that one first because it was the highest pressured bottle. My impression some pages back it was good I liked it. 
Re- any recipe details to share on that one DJ_L3ThAL?


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## TheWiggman (29/7/17)

Just checked DJ and my bottle is tight AF. Chilling as we speak, expect some lighthearted feedback shortly.


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## DJ_L3ThAL (29/7/17)

dupe.


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## DJ_L3ThAL (29/7/17)

Sorry Dan I meant you to thank for letting me know early re: pressure! I truly thought this one had stalled :-| Also thanks for the positive feedback, glad at least someone has enjoyed it hehe.

Recipe:
OG 1.052, FG, well.... *should* be 1.014
IBU 27.1
EBC 40.2
ABV 4.6%

Grain (Mash was 67C for 60min and Mash out 76C for 10min)
10.5kg Thomas Fawcett floor malted Peal
0.8kg Dark crystal
0.5kg Brown
0.3 Carafa Special II
0.2kg Caramunich III

Hops
80g EKG FWH (60min boil)

Yeast
WLP002 English ale - stalling F&*^*&^&* yeast




Wiggman any feedback is welcome, I might have one myself shortly, I'm going in......




]


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## TheWiggman (29/7/17)

try the wheat


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## MartinOC (29/7/17)

mofox1 said:


> Bring on summer and bring on the wheats!



Amen, brother!


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## TheWiggman (29/7/17)

You missed out on my wheat beer Martin, part of the inspiration for it was your longing for one.

3. DJ_L3THAL - English Brown




Well yes it's rather carbed. From the bottle I'm smelling nuttiness, it's like a Snickers and very alluring. In the glass it's quite dark but up against a strong light the clarity is impressive. To taste I'm getting a lot of Snickers and if nothing else I'm tasting a nut smorgasbord with almond, walnut and peanut. It has an interesting balance between coming across as watery yet maintaining a moderate amount of malt kick, if you could describe nuts as malty. Bitterness is peculiar in that it doesn't seem bitter in the hop sense - sure the hops created the bitterness, but it's not like hops are out there saying "EKG!" and more like the 2 or 3kg of nuts I imagine were added to the mash are going "I'm pretending to be a hop look at me" like a dog at a dining table thinking it's human.
Another good display of brewing DJ, enjoying the variety.
Cons: Could use more oats.


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## AJ80 (30/7/17)

TheWiggman said:


> You missed out on my wheat beer Martin, part of the inspiration for it was your longing for one.
> 
> 3. DJ_L3THAL - English Brown
> 
> ...



Had this last night too - agree entirely with Wiggman's review. Fizzy as hell to begin with (tip: open outside or over a sink...), but calmed down into a truely delicious brown ale. I really enjoyed this last night in front of the fire. Thank for sharing!


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## DJ_L3ThAL (30/7/17)

Thanks fellas and apologies again for any frothy mess! I'm relieved it is drinkable. As for the nut flavour I agree it is quite full on. Would that be the amount of brown malt doing that? I think it needs a bit of sweetness to balance it out, which it ironically had when I bottled it but it's then fermented another 6-8 gravity points plus priming sugar in the bottle.

I had *#13 Wiggmans Haters Wheat* late last night, fell asleep so I purged the other half of the bottle with CO2 and am having it now. Very very nice wheat mate, hits the nail on the head for my tastes. Like Schofferhoffer (orange label) with slightly less phenolics. Could quite easily be a wheat that could get non-wheat drinkers drinking them. Anyway which yeast mate and what was the recipe? I love a good wheat in summer.....!


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## TheWiggman (30/7/17)

'Tis my own concoction that one, I've brewed (tragically) a few wheats and have steered them down to where _I_ would like them to be, which overall isn't all that wheaty because I reckon wheats are rubbish. Except this one of course, it's amazing 
A few things contributed to it which are worth noting -

Ferrulic acid rest and managing pH during mash
Super Pride, man am I digging that non-hipster earth lately
FRESH pack of 3068 straight in, no starter. I ALWAYS use a starter for my brews and had to wash the dirt off my hands after pitching on this occasion.
Keep ferment temp at 18°C until at least half way through
Of course use clean water. RO this time, no salt additions
My 'Pride of Wheat' recipe was in the database but it looks like it's been deleted (odd). It's a pretty simple grain bill for 23l -
2.3kg JW wheat malt
2.0kg BB pale malt (or JW pils)
50g JW caramalt
9g Super Pride FWH - nine grams, no typo
25g Saaz at flameout

Aiming for OG 1.045 and FG 1.008, 18 IBU. Mash steps were -

44°C for 10 mins - NO SALTS, RO water
52°C for 5 mins
65°C mash, add acidulated malt or in my case about 1ml of lactic acid
Mash out
I honestly don't mind this beer and dare I say it's starting to turn me around. I'll just have to brew more Belgians and re-align those tastebuds. Actually, I've enjoyed a few HB Belgians using a wheat yeast for a non-wheat beer (Tenich anyone?) so maybe I should do the real thing. For me, keeping the clove down with careful yeast pitch and controlled ferment temps matches well with a ferrulic acid rest.


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## TheWiggman (30/7/17)

7. mofox1 - Monster Pale (drink now)
Shitty mobile app won't let me post anything in this thread and I'm too lazy to get my phone cord. I wanted to post the pic because the head on this beer was borderline intense: dense, foamy and lacing all the way down my Headmaster glass. Couldn't ask for better.
On the nose I'm getting a very similar character to your other beer, something that's just a little odd I can't put my finger on. After a few sips though that's all gone. Aromatically it doesn't see _that _hoppy but in the mouth this comes across like it's been dry hopped to the shithouse. Bold, bitey hop crispness that reminds me a lot of Beechworth Pale except more more more. For what seems heavily late hopped I'm surprised it's not coming through in the aroma. There's a frag of pine but a lot of citrus tang going on which sticks to the inside of my [mouth] cheeks.
To me this comes across as an intentionally imbalanced pale throwing dry hopping in yo' face, the IBU:SG ratio is in check but the flavour elements of the hops hold the malt by the throat. It's a bit too far on the scale for my tastes to have a session of it, but I could see it hop heads raving about it in the same way I ask for jungle curries when getting Thai. "Why would you want it so hot?" they say. Because I need it. Just like some people need moar hops in their session beer.


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## mofox1 (30/7/17)

TheWiggman said:


> 7. mofox1 - Monster Pale (drink now)
> Shitty mobile app won't let me post anything in this thread and I'm too lazy to get my phone cord. I wanted to post the pic because the head on this beer was borderline intense: dense, foamy and lacing all the way down my Headmaster glass. Couldn't ask for better.
> On the nose I'm getting a very similar character to your other beer, something that's just a little odd I can't put my finger on. After a few sips though that's all gone. Aromatically it doesn't see _that _hoppy but in the mouth this comes across like it's been dry hopped to the shithouse. Bold, bitey hop crispness that reminds me a lot of Beechworth Pale except more more more. For what seems heavily late hopped I'm surprised it's not coming through in the aroma. There's a frag of pine but a lot of citrus tang going on which sticks to the inside of my [mouth] cheeks.
> To me this comes across as an intentionally imbalanced pale throwing dry hopping in yo' face, the IBU:SG ratio is in check but the flavour elements of the hops hold the malt by the throat. It's a bit too far on the scale for my tastes to have a session of it, but I could see it hop heads raving about it in the same way I ask for jungle curries when getting Thai. "Why would you want it so hot?" they say. Because I need it. Just like some people need moar hops in their session beer.


As surmised, it is (and was intended to be) an over the top beer. Not so much with the dry hopping though, at only 2g/L is fairly tame by my standards. It did get ~13g/L late hops (all home grown flowers - Chinook & Cascade) with only a fistfull as FWH. So there is your pine and citrus, the dry hop was Galaxy and Moutere to try and add a bit of fruit to the nose.

Good whack of gypsum though, which is also present in my swap IPA. Maybe that is the common theme? Other than the ridiculous amount of hops used, there isn't much of a common theme. Completely different grains bills, both used Moutere as a dry hop, but they had no other overlap in the hops used. Hop timings were also completely different (IPA had 100ibu of bittering, then 10g/L at 75°C whirlpool and massive 12g/L dry hop, pale was only a few IBU for fwh, then shitloads at 10 & 0min with no chilling and token dry hop). Possibly used Vermont IPA yeast for both. Didn't actually note the yeast I used for the pale.

This was the bonus beer... I was intending to keep this one for myself, but I did make three cubes of it and the swap numbers were, err, my teachers always used the words "has potential".

I'll make you a wheat next time wheatman, I mean wiggman.


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## DJ_L3ThAL (30/7/17)

AJ80 said:


> Cheers for the feedback droid and mofox. All the acidity was from the grapefruit additions. There was 2L of grapefruit juice (I think this is what really dried the beer out) added to the fermenter after 5 days of fermentation as well as the finely shredded zest of a ruby red grapefruit soaked in vodka and then added (with the vodka) 5 days before bottling. Late hops were all Amarillo and mandarina Bavaria (1.5 g/L each in the cube and the same again as a 5 day dry hop).
> 
> I too would have liked the grapefruit to be more prominent.



Had your grapefruit pale tonight AJ. I was absolutely convinced while drinking it that you tricked us and there was no grapefruit and only Brett giving the grapefruit flavour as it reminds me hugely of Brett APAs I have had before, just with no "funk". But then looked back and saw you confirmed there is grapefruit juice in it. Either way exceptional beer, loved it immensely, thanks very much [emoji106][emoji481]


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## JB (31/7/17)

Kicking myself I couldn't get in on this beer swap, I feel so ... standing on the outside looking in - my FOMO has come to fruition.

Loving the reviews, have been genuine lol'ing at Wiggy's reviews.

Anyway, I've taken the day off so better get my brew on, cheers


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## TheWiggman (31/7/17)

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Grain (Mash was 67C for 60min and Mash out 76C for 10min)
> 10.5kg Thomas Fawcett floor malted Peal
> 0.8kg Dark crystal
> 0.5kg Brown
> ...


Interesting, I've used brown malt once in a brown porter but it was my first AG brew so can't remember the specifics. I've noted there is a complete absence of nuts in there, are you sure you didn't mix the Peal _[sic]_ for walnuts? Nah surely not, you would have noticed it during the crush. Maybe it's the combo of caramunich and brown?

And thanks JB I do aim to please, although not so apparent to the individual whose beer I'm reviewing


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## Midnight Brew (3/8/17)

9. mofox1 - Heady Topperish (drink now!

Aroma: Resinous Grapefruit City, can't buy grapefruits this fresh.
Appearance: Golden Copper, dry hop haze (I suspect), looks aggressive AF
Flavour: Sweet upfront, quickly becomes complex, heavy malt flavours (maybe Munich) and then bitter, the American kind, the kind when something is labeled as an American ale, this is how it should taste. I get a really nice mix of malt and hops battling each other which you'd think could create problems in a beer, in this beer however its a battle for balance that I feel is in check and keeps both characters of the beer forward. Im probably crapping on too much now.
Overall: Hop City, satisfying beer that screams flavour and aroma. I don't think I've ever had a heady topper before its gonna take a fair go to wack this off the podium. Cheers for sharing!


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## droid (5/8/17)

notes tomoz, can you guess?


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## Danscraftbeer (5/8/17)

No Idea but awesome photo


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## DJ_L3ThAL (5/8/17)

Looks like an overcarbonated brown ale [emoji23]


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## Mardoo (5/8/17)

Love the white head and brown beer. Legendary, in parts of England.


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## droid (6/8/17)

no-one really cares for the guessing game...

DJ you got it but I wouldn't be dissapointed. I carefully opened it and only lost a little as it foamed out of the bottle.

For a beer that was to be best enjoyed in September it's holding it's own right now. Mine still managed to pack in a tight head in the center of the glass.
Yeasty aroma, might be picking up some roast/choc.
Nice Dry finish, feels like a session beer - what is the abv Nath; ?
Well balanced, personally I think a beer that is well balanced like this allows for some, hmmn what would I do if I brewed this?
Nothing in your face, chocolate, roastyess...
I find this beer to be like GP's in that it's approachable, enjoyable and the balance gives it a sophisticated'ness ??
Surely would have been a cracker in September mate.
Thanks for that!


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## Danscraftbeer (7/8/17)

No4. AJ80 - grapefruit pale ale 
Well when I saw people reporting on this I thought I had missed out on a sample bottle. 
I couldn't find it but It was just at the back low shelf out of view. Found it! 
Amber color, low head but retains, nice aroma as to the name and so is the flavor. Its dry as, leaves the palate dry but I like that and opposing that it still seems to have some body to it through the tasting progress... The Title is it. 
Nice one. Again I could imagine this being very sessionable in hot weather.


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## Danscraftbeer (10/8/17)

5. droid - Nefarious Villain; A three way blend of two RIS's and a Sour Cherry Stout
Wow. This is heavy. Opaque. Sweet, Lots of body, low carbonation so theres little head unless forced to. Then that head sustains nicely.
Very warming effect.
Aroma-heavy alcs. Is there Whisky/Oak in this? It seems a little that way.
Complex blend I can taste the Cherry Stout.
Very heavy and rich for the first beer after work but I'll finish the bottle. With content no doubt.
Its like Mud Cake for dinner when it should be Dessert so my timing is out.


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## Midnight Brew (11/8/17)

Drink ASAP:
3. DJ_L3THAL - English Brown - sorry guys has come to my attention (thanks Wiggman and mofox) that this batch fermented more than it appeared[...]

Drink Now:
4. AJ80 - grapefruit pale ale (Ready - drink fresh)
6. Midnight Brew, IPA - drink end of July.
7. mofox1 - Monster Pale (drink now)
8.GrumpyPaul - Grapefruit Sour. (drink now) [Note there are 15 sours labelled 8 and 5 of the American Rye in this case labelled 8a)
9. mofox1 - Heady Topperish (drink now!)
10. Shortybronx - Sierra Nevada Pale Ale
13. TheWiggman - Haters' Wheat



(drink now)
14. GrumpyPaul – American Rye (drink now)
16. Danscraftbeer. All mine are ready to drink. Bottled from kegs.

Drink Later:
5. droid - Nefarious Villain; A three way blend of Stouts - let age and put a carb cap on if you can when cold to bump the carb up
11. Whiteferret - British Strong Ale (Give it a couple of months say September)
12. Laxation - Stout, American style. Bottled early June, but has been conditioning in a cold room. Will be better in a while.

TBC what it is and when to taste:
1. Idzy
2. Husky
15. Tahoose


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## Midnight Brew (11/8/17)

16. Danscraft - Red Earth 6.4%

Appearance: Dark red, clear, little to no head but still quiet bubbly.
Aroma: Toffee/Raisin without the sweetness, malt and something familiar I've smelt before but can't put my nose on it.
Taste: Malty, crisp then dry, followed by another hit of malt. The bitterness blends in well with dryness to give it that refreshing sessional feeling. Quiet an enjoyable session beer even though its 6.2%. Reminds me a lot of James Squire Amber Ale I used to smash by the pint load at the Geebung Polo club back in the day, only yours has significantly more flavour and body to it. 

Was it a pretty clean ferment? I can't detect any yeast flavours.

I was going to do some uni readings on Babylonian architecture tonight but... I think I'll finish this bottle and have another. Damn you 6.2% 'session' beer!


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## Danscraftbeer (11/8/17)

Sorry about that ha... Clean ferment yes, always. Yeast was Irish Ale WLP004. Interesting yeast and some harvested yeast slurry fermented the best Apple Cider I've ever made. To give it away! 
The flavor/smell you cant quite recognize sounds like when I try to describe the Red Earth hops. Unique but reminds me of something I just cant pin point it.
Some tasting experts have referred to Loquat from the Red Earth Hops.

This is the lowest bitterness beer I've made at 0.442 IBU/SG.


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## technobabble66 (11/8/17)

Danscraftbeer said:


> ...The flavor/smell you cant quite recognize sounds like when I try to describe the Red Earth hops. Unique but reminds me of something I just cant pin point it.
> Some tasting experts have referred to Loquat from the Red Earth Hops.
> ...


Pleeeeease try to pin point those descriptors! I'm very keen to find out what Red Earth brings to the beer party (& i wasn't in the case swap  ).


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## Danscraftbeer (11/8/17)

technobabble66 said:


> Pleeeeease try to pin point those descriptors! I'm very keen to find out what Red Earth brings to the beer party (& i wasn't in the case swap  ).


Well. Patients for the coming season I may do better in the Red Earth yeild. It will have to be the next winter case swap you have to judge it yourself.
I wish I had more property to spread the variety growth.


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## laxation (11/8/17)

Lethal, I finished my second of your beers tonight. I had half earlier in the week, Monday I think, then back in the fridge to finish up. Jeez it was good after having that time... Mellowed out and the fizz wasn't as intense. A really nice beer and would've been a cracker if it didn't grow a mind of its own! Maybe it's also a mood thing (this is definitely a good Friday/couch beer) but the first wasn't as good.
I had a pecan porter at Bad shepard brewery and if both of these were on tap, I'd be drinking your one

Good shit. I wish I'd opened them both to breathe a bit


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## laxation (12/8/17)

Mofox, had your #7 and it has almost a minty aftertaste and smell. Not something I've really tasted before so a bit hard to explain. What is it I'm tasting?

Edit* I had two of yours, the second was less intense. Dunno what was with that first one...


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## Mardoo (12/8/17)

Red Earth is a very interesting hop. Think I'll pull the pin on a rhizome next year. I've had a couple Red Earth beers brewed by others. They all had a certain unidentifiable something that extended the reach of the beer, rather than detracting.


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## laxation (12/8/17)

I haven't really had many (maybe none?) Wheat beers since I was 17, doing pub crawls around the European beer cafe. It was about then I decided they tasted like banana milkshakes and suck.
But the haters wheat is really good.. Not too fruity/banana-ee. Great carbonation, one of the best from a bottle I can remember. is that the wheat that does that? I guess I'm gonna have to try more wheat beers again!


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## laxation (12/8/17)

Got dans low carb light ale up next. Got a nice surprise opening this.. From the label I didn't know what to expect but this is a great beer. I love dry wines but never had a dry beer like this. Just delicious. Lucky it's a session ale, would be dangerous otherwise. Really tasty and really easy to drink.

After all the raving about the red earth, I was a bit upset to see I had the other one, but this was my favorite of the swap beers so far!


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## TheWiggman (12/8/17)

Thanks for the kinds words. I'm not a wheat beer fan myself either but this one is tailored to my tastes. It would have had more banana to it but it's a volatile ester - the longer in the bottle the more subdued it becomes. 
Regarding carbonation, wheat has no impact on it. It's all about the amount of priming sugar used when bottling (or if fermentation wasn't complete, but that's a whole other story). I think I used about 200g of dextrose for the 23 litre brew, bulk primed (if you don't know what that is plenty of info out there). The wheat however has an impact on head retention.


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## TheWiggman (12/8/17)

6. Midnight Brew, IPA
An IPA, approaching mid-August, why am I the first to try this? And with that in mind after a day of yard work it would surely be the perfect companion. 
It poured into the glass well and had a copper colour foremost with very good clarity. Appropriate carbonation, moderate head building up and overall looking the part. Aromatically I'm not getting too much, usual US notes that expresses moderation. In the mouth it has a character that I associate with your other brews Midnight - hard to put my finger on it but could be described as 'watery'. Thin body, coming across as very dry and for an IPA I'm really not tasting the alcohol (and after having the bottle I can assure you there is plenty in there). It's remarkable really, I wouldn't describe this as a typical IPA because it doesn't taste strong, is light-on in the hops for my tastes, yet clearly contains ample grog-factor which would make one think twice before grabbing the keys. This might have been better drunk earlier because for an IPA it's not really bitter or hoppy enough, but could absolutely pass as a pale ale or as an entry level IPA for the masses. There's sufficient malt to give the brew a bit of flavour interest. As far as faults are concerned it's a very clean brew, just needs moar hops.


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## laxation (12/8/17)

I thought wheat had some thing to do with it I just couldn't remember what... The head certainly hung around. But anyway had other bulk primed beers but this was just done well

The #14 American rye is a good one. My thorough review is that it looks like beer and tastes like beer. After so many different beers it's nice to come back to something a bit more familiar.


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## Midnight Brew (14/8/17)

TheWiggman said:


> 6. Midnight Brew, IPA
> An IPA, approaching mid-August, why am I the first to try this? And with that in mind after a day of yard work it would surely be the perfect companion.
> It poured into the glass well and had a copper colour foremost with very good clarity. Appropriate carbonation, moderate head building up and overall looking the part. Aromatically I'm not getting too much, usual US notes that expresses moderation. In the mouth it has a character that I associate with your other brews Midnight - hard to put my finger on it but could be described as 'watery'. Thin body, coming across as very dry and for an IPA I'm really not tasting the alcohol (and after having the bottle I can assure you there is plenty in there). It's remarkable really, I wouldn't describe this as a typical IPA because it doesn't taste strong, is light-on in the hops for my tastes, yet clearly contains ample grog-factor which would make one think twice before grabbing the keys. This might have been better drunk earlier because for an IPA it's not really bitter or hoppy enough, but could absolutely pass as a pale ale or as an entry level IPA for the masses. There's sufficient malt to give the brew a bit of flavour interest. As far as faults are concerned it's a very clean brew, just needs moar hops.



Thanks for the feedback Wiggman, much appreciated! The IPA was a blend of two IPAs, the first was a malty aggressively Munich heavy IPA. The second was a session IPA (3-4% abv) with homegrown chinook all in at whirlpool. The bitterness was around half of what was estimated but blending in to other, eased the assault of Munich. In terms of mash temp, Munich IPA had quiet a 'digestible' mash regime whereas the harvest IPA had a full body mash. I don't think I dry hopped this batch at all hoping for the homegrown to showcase itself more prominently. Im not sure on any other factors that explain the watery character so I'll have a look at the notes tonight. Perhaps I should of labeled as a pale ale after sampling a bottle myself haha.


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## Midnight Brew (14/8/17)

10. Shorty Bronx - Sierra Nevada Pale Ale

Appearance: Bright, clear, clean and a dense foamy head.
Aroma: To me its similar to noble hops late, maybe even hallertau or a bit Ahtanum-ish. Low aroma on the hop front.
Flavour: Soft bitterness (quiet pleasant really), low malt character and neutral. I think I taste kit yeast? Very kit like with no hop flavour/stripped hop flavour. Okay by now I'm certain this isn't a SNPA and possible someone else's beer? Looked at the bottle and theres no number on the cap but a blue sticker on the side labeled '10'. 
Overall: If this is a kit beer, Id say its a good result but something to work on flavour wise would be either more prominent with flavour and dry hopping (if SNPA was the aim), and pitch adequate yeast. Id argue the yeast factor is far more important to get right, as I don't necessarily think the yeast was stressed but it seems to have muted the other flavours of the beer. The head held its way all the way down the glass so kudos to that! 

So question, was this your beer? Has anyone else tried it? Was it suppose to be SNPA?


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## Shortybronx (14/8/17)

haha yer that was my beer....... Im not even sure what SNPA tastes like but thats what the home brew shop guy said what I have should taste like. Its not a kit yeast. Once again complete recommendation of the home brew shop guy. Sorry I dont really brew beer and to this day is my only beer I have made besides one that is so strong its almost wine.

I like drinking beer, but making it is something I am not sure I will ever get the hang of.


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## Midnight Brew (15/8/17)

Shortybronx said:


> haha yer that was my beer....... Im not even sure what SNPA tastes like but thats what the home brew shop guy said what I have should taste like. Its not a kit yeast. Once again complete recommendation of the home brew shop guy. Sorry I dont really brew beer and to this day is my only beer I have made besides one that is so strong its almost wine.
> 
> I like drinking beer, but making it is something I am not sure I will ever get the hang of.



Well done mate! Pretty good job for a first beer. Crystal clear and a dense head that held its way down the glass. These are things at first that are hard to get right. With a few little tweaks you're on the slippery slope. I hope you're participating in the next swap, looking forward to trying batch number 2/3. Great effort for a first beer!


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## TheWiggman (18/8/17)

Round 2 with #9. The flavour that shall not be named is subdued and bugger me if the hops still aren't here in spades. Looking after the kids at present, if I'd downed a few of these there would be cause for a charge of irresponsible parenting. There's a lot going on in this glass.


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## Midnight Brew (18/8/17)

5. droid - Nefarious Villain; A three way blend of two RIS's and a Sour Cherry Stout

Opened this one with full intention to start my weekend at 10:15 pm after work and then settle into a few amber ales. Must of thought number 5 was something else but it appears Ive open up a bloody devil RIS.

Appearance: Jet black liquid syrup. oh boy.
Aroma: Sour notes with dark fruit and an almost pudding like character. Can't get enough of it.
Flavour: To quote my grandpa when he tastes a good drop of red and can't(won't) put down the bottle: "Oooooooooooooaaaahh". Smooth, refreshing in a sour/acidity/hits the spot kind of way. Very refreshing. Thirst quenching. Very smooth roast background character, almost hard to detect for me, followed by fruity/tart notes and then the warming alcohol character. I really don't think words do this beer justice. I really hope I picked a second bottle of this up. I've still got two aged RIS's you gave me 2 years back and as much as I really want to compare the three, I can't handle that many devils. Just ask anyone who spoke to me or watched me walk after Southern Courage on handpump at Foragers hard launch.

Overall: Im only a few beers into this swap but this is going to be hard to take the top spot for me. Outstanding effort Jonny, I love the mouthfeel and finish of the beers you brew. Gonna go out on a big statement here but here goes. *This is the second beer I've had from a case swap that I cannot fault* (2 fuzzy nuts). Blow me BJCP! Oh ****... the devil is back

EDIT: Enjoyed while watching Thunderball (James Bond)


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## droid (19/8/17)

Thanks man that's awesome!


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## Midnight Brew (19/8/17)

4. AJ80 - grapefruit pale ale 



Appearance: Dark golden in colour, clear and rocking a white medium head. 
Aroma: Minimal grapefruit with a note of something tart. When I opened it, was very similar to ahtanum. 
Flavour: Bitter up front and actually quiet astringent, very carbonated. Very little malt and hop character. Stream of bubbles forming in the centre to keep the head. Finishes dry. Now that it has warmed up a bit, the carbonation has chimed down and the astringent character has become less perceivable. 

Overall: I’ve probably had this one too late, I don’t get a lot from the aroma and the flavour is quiet zesty astringent. As it warmed up more I actually liked it (because I’m a carbonation wuss) and had second thoughts on being so harsh earlier. More flavour in the second glass around. I think deep down the banana wine blew this one out of the water but in saying that, I’ve finished the whole bottle.

Thanks for sharing AJ, interesting beer as always and I love how you can push the boundaries and pull it off.


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## malt junkie (19/8/17)

Midnight Brew said:


> 5. droid - Nefarious Villain; A three way blend of two RIS's and a Sour Cherry Stout
> 
> Opened this one with full intention to start my weekend at 10:15 pm after work and then settle into a few amber ales. Must of thought number 5 was something else but it appears Ive open up a bloody devil RIS.
> 
> ...


And this is why EVERY attendee should swap, kickin' myself silly for not having my shit together for this one!!

BTW Droid was kind enough to give me a bottle of this, I believe I may have reviewed earlier in the thread, however it follow a sampling of our westy 12 swap beer..... don't ever do that!


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## Midnight Brew (19/8/17)

malt junkie said:


> And this is why EVERY attendee should swap, kickin' myself silly for not having my shit together for this one!!
> 
> BTW Droid was kind enough to give me a bottle of this, I believe I may have reviewed earlier in the thread, however it follow a sampling of our westy 12 swap beer..... don't ever do that!


If I find said second bottle, I'll put it away for the XMAS swap and we'll sample it out.


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## droid (20/8/17)

Midnight Brew said:


> If I find said second bottle, I'll put it away for the XMAS swap and we'll sample it out.



I'll have some of my blend there, as well as a 4 way blend (of the same but including the Winter Case Swap mofox brew) which is on Belgian yeast now, if it works out alright that will be my swap beer too, a 4 way blend

Cam if you have another bottle it might have III on the lid for three way blend, the ones I gave out were not numbered like the swap beer, ie 5. I have one you can grab if you go to the Vic Grain Bulk buy

cheers
Jonny


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## Midnight Brew (20/8/17)

droid said:


> I'll have some of my blend there, as well as a 4 way blend (of the same but including the Winter Case Swap mofox brew) which is on Belgian yeast now, if it works out alright that will be my swap beer too, a 4 way blend
> 
> Cam if you have another bottle it might have III on the lid for three way blend, the ones I gave out were not numbered like the swap beer, ie 5. I have one you can grab if you go to the Vic Grain Bulk buy
> 
> ...



Jonny, I think it has a 5 on the cap, again need to check if I have it. Also have 2 bottles of your RIS which may have ended up being part of this swap blend, but the original, unblended version. Also have Grant's RIS from the 2015 kinglake swap.


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## Mardoo (20/8/17)

Is that a blend I see on the horizon?


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## AJ80 (20/8/17)

Midnight Brew said:


> Also have Grant's RIS from the 2015 kinglake swap.



Funnily enough, I have the same one squirrelled away as well!

Cheers for the review of the grapefruit pale ale too. Had your IPA the other night. Rich, malty and, to agree with wiggman, not a heap of hop action. Very clean ferment and I enjoyed it to the bottom of the glass. Great colour too! I Read that it had homegrown flowers late. I'm a huge fan of homegrown flowers, but I've found they seem to fade pretty quickly in my experience with them. Was a delicious beer regardless!!


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## Midnight Brew (20/8/17)

Thanks for the review mate. I love the homegrown hops too but they fade super quick, and I think bitterness was around half of what I expected, plenty more to get through before they take off again in the next 6 weeks. Double flower power next time.


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## TheWiggman (20/8/17)

I'm going to break the rules here and review the beer I just cracked so it's not biased. 
14. ?????????
Low carb, quite clear with a light 'pale ale' visual appeal about it. Clean on the nose with a vague sweetness, maybe a whisp of Redskin. Interesting. Taste-wise: I had prior thoughts I had opened another Grumpy's Rye but clearly not the case. I had flashbacks to comments about cherries somewhere in this thread as soon as I thought about it. It has the signs of a lambic without being sour or at the very least overtly so. Some bitterness, some hints of a hops, some malt and nothing off-putting. Not enough oats though of course. A very clean beer that is a good alternative to something hop forward or a lager, and based on the (I'm guessing) cherry factor would blow Shortybronx's mind.
Ed: apparently WAS Grumpy's rye. Either my tastebuds are shot or there's been a labelling error. I'm standing by it though, doesn't taste like the other one.


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## Nullnvoid (20/8/17)

AJ80 said:


> Funnily enough, I have the same one squirrelled away as well!





Midnight Brew said:


> Also have Grant's RIS from the 2015 kinglake swap.



I also still have this one tucked away. hahahah. Better be good


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## DJ_L3ThAL (22/8/17)

Just realised I don't have #1 or #2, does everyone else?


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## laxation (22/8/17)

Me either


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## TheWiggman (23/8/17)

Me neither


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## GrumpyPaul (23/8/17)

No sign of a number 1 in line either.

Did Idzy submit one for the swap?


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## malt junkie (23/8/17)

I know he had a beer there, he still needed to label, but then people started arriving,brewing kicking off, beers were flowing ...etc


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## mofox1 (23/8/17)

malt junkie said:


> I know he had a beer there, he still needed to label, but then people started arriving,brewing kicking off, beers were flowing ...etc


Adz? Nope, don't think he did.


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## Danscraftbeer (23/8/17)

6. Midnight brew - Son of Zeus IPA blended with Harvest IPA

Lowish Head, lowish carbonation. Nicely cleared with a Tan color. Aroma - Yum, very IPAish as in well hopped. Flavor yum very smooth, malty with body and hoppy too. This is an easier drinking IPA IMO not that I find IPA at all hard to drink but this is smooth and easy. Is this an English yeast? Its full body? Seems to me. I'm lacking definitive connoisseur descriptive abilities but this has professional/commercial level character. Smooth mouth feel. Even after a few sips you can still get a good whiff of hops on every sip. 
Thanks for that!


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## Midnight Brew (30/8/17)

Thanks Dan!

The harvest IPA was full body mash and the SoZ was Munich heavy so really a combination of both at play. I think English strains play better with more malt at play and you're on the money about it being an English yeast. Used 1768 ESB, even threw it at the case swap brew and have those bottles tucked into a warm corner of my bedroom.


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## Midnight Brew (30/8/17)

3. jb smoke on the porter, I mean DJ_L3THAL - English Brown - ready from September.

Been releasing the carbonation for weeks but still holds plenty.

Appearance: Love that colour! Ruby red and crystal clear.
Aroma: Hints of a deep toffee/caramel note, English esters, I'm thinking Ringwood?
Flavour: Carbonation is still taking centre stage after me beating the shite out of it with a spoon, which sparkles the tongue and gives a full mouthfeel effect. Getting a rich caramel flavour but not much else due to carbonation.
Overall: has the makings of a great beer, unfortunately the carbonation takes too much away, this would of been beautiful out of a hand pump. Awesome job on colour! Love to know your recipe to get that mystical colour.


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## DJ_L3ThAL (31/8/17)

Midnight Brew said:


> 3. jb smoke on the porter, I mean DJ_L3THAL - English Brown - ready from September.
> 
> Been releasing the carbonation for weeks but still holds plenty.
> 
> ...



Cheers Cam and apologies for the over-carb  Sadly the second cube of this batch I have recently started to ferment on WLP004 Irish Ale and that too stopped early at 1.017. However I've purged the conical cone with CO2 to re-mix the yeast and upped the temp, thankfully this morning after 24 hours there is some slight activity so hopefully it will finish the job for me and I can enjoy this beer as intended! I did employ the same with the WLP002 for this swap batch but it didn't want to budge from 1.020.

Recipe I posted back here: https://aussiehomebrewer.com/thread...y-case-swap-tasting.95650/page-6#post-1468056


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## Midnight Brew (31/8/17)

No #1 or #2 for me either

13. TheWiggman - Haters' Wheat©

Appearance: Clear straw with a very appealing golden hue, mousey cream thick dense head.
Aroma: Has to be one the most favourable wheat beer aromas Ive come across! Sweet, bread and interesting.
Flavour: Oooooh she's good! Clean, bready, very well balanced between the flavours. This glass is disappearing really fast. Carbonation is 'midnight brew' friendly and flavour is where I want a wheat beer to be. Lovely bread character that develops and works in with the back bitterness. 
Overall: Fantastic wheat beer that I believe could sway most drinkers. I've screen shot your recipe and process for keeps sake to encourage me to brew a weizen again.

I had a really bad experience on a Christmas Day a few years ago which combined my house wheat, over indulgence and food poisoning together. Spent all 8 days of my xmas time off in bed with delusional pyschodelic nightmares. However you've spurred me on to try another weizen with a more local approach. Fantastic beer mate and thanks for sharing.


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## malt junkie (31/8/17)

Damn MB some of wish for those kinda dreams .... others pay big money


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## Mardoo (31/8/17)

And others never get out of them...


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## Midnight Brew (31/8/17)

I wouldn't wish those on anyone haha was a terrible 8 days that I'll never forget. Cannot express how full on it was! All kinds of fucked up. Tell you all about it at the Xmas Swap


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## technobabble66 (31/8/17)

Midnight Brew said:


> 13. TheWiggman - Haters' Wheat[emoji767]
> 
> ...
> Overall: Fantastic wheat beer that I believe could sway most drinkers. I've screen shot your recipe and process for keeps sake to encourage me to brew a weizen again.
> ...



Wow. Makes me wonder how much better it would've been with oats instead of wheat... [emoji185]

[emoji1]


@wiggdude, which post did you put up the recipe?


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## TheWiggman (31/8/17)

Are you seriously asking me to search the thread so you don't have to?


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## technobabble66 (31/8/17)

Lol. Nah. Not that lazy, just hoping you might think buggrit and repost it. So then I wouldn't have to trawl through it on the phone. [emoji6]
But I'll be on the laptop shortly so I can search then.


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## TheWiggman (31/8/17)

Hehe, considered being nice and scrolling through but out of principle spent that time replying instead. Also considered using the search function but since the update might as well use a random number generator.
Ed: was nice and scrolled through the thread but can't find the recipe, damn misleading. I'll look tomorrow night


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## GrumpyPaul (31/8/17)

TheWiggman said:


> Are you seriously asking me to search the thread so you don't have to?



You mean post #116


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## technobabble66 (31/8/17)

Thanks, GP.
At least someone is helpful


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## TheWiggman (2/9/17)

Well yes I'm an idiot. In honour of Cocko, I've decided to review my own beer.
Aroma: Great.
Appearance: Great.
Taste: Great.
Mouthfeel: Great.
Overall impressions: Great beer.


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## MartinOC (2/9/17)

You forgot to ask for the recipe...


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## Midnight Brew (3/9/17)

I'd like a detailed 'Wiggman' review please.


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## TheWiggman (3/9/17)

If I must...
3. TheWiggman - Haters' Wheat
If you weren't aware because you've never heard of me or AHB, I don't like wheat beers. For some reason though I brewed a few Weissbiers early on and cemented my opinion. Like most brewers, I'm partial to my own beers however rarely 'nail it' because I'm my own biggest critic. Friends have requested wheats in the past so I've garnered info on them as well as tailoring them to my own tastes based on my experience. The more I divulge in Belgians, the more I enjoy phenols but still can't enjoy clove. 
Mild haze in the glass with lively carbonation. Not quite 'classic' white (though intentionally so). Builds up a nice head that holds it's itself al the way to the bottom of the glass. Aromatically it's clearly a wheat, phenolics in spades with hint of banana and grain. On the first sip it's that typical plastic-flavoured hit you get with a wheat beer and for me a little off-putting - there's some clove in there but well balanced, no bubblegum esters to speak of nor much banana. Probably a little past it's prime. It feels like quite a mouthful to drink, coming across as dry but full-flavoured. After a few sips the fullness subdues and the dominant flavours meld to a refreshing beverage the tastes less like chewing on a ruler and more like a beer made from something other than malted barley. In honesty, if I were to open up a brewery this is the beer I would want as a wheat beer, as it's familiar enough for the die-hard fans to enjoy somewhat but also welcomes newcomers to the different style. Instead of jumping in at the deep end, there's this. I feel like I could drink it all day in summer, much like that first hit of Carlton Draught throws you back but 8 schooners later you've forgotten the taste and start considering climbing a tree in the beer garden. It is however still a wheat so there would have to be some pretty ******* ordinary beers for me to put this at first place in a swap. Thanks for the beer.


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## TheWiggman (8/9/17)

11. Whiteferret - British Strong Ale





Soft bottle to squeeze and barely a hiss on opening. Zero head and carbonation, I was ready to write it off as not capped properly or something. It smells sweet with generous DJ-esque nuttiness and a hint of malt character and bready... I dunno, 'notes'. The aroma certainly lives up to expectations, it's full bodied with roast hiding amongst the walnuts and alcoholic sweetness. Certainly can taste the alcohol, not avertly so given it's 8% but comes across as stronger than what it is. As it warms the balance mellows but maintains sherry-like overtones and sweetness. Very little to comment on as far as faults go, it's a clean brew. More cellar time and some carbonation would have made for a much better experience I reckon. Cheers again Wayne.


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## TheWiggman (9/9/17)

Maybe wheat beers aren't really that bad.


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## DJ_L3ThAL (9/9/17)

Godly halo?


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## mofox1 (16/9/17)

droid said:


> 5. droid - Nefarious Villain; A three way blend of Stouts - drink now or let age, whatever you like



Ooh.. #5 I like. Barrel taste, stout body... I'd drink this all night except I'm now having difficulties with tihs typingn. Basterd...


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## Midnight Brew (23/9/17)

My favourite beer ATM blew late last night. Drinking the 2nd bottle of Grumpy's American Rye.

Loving rye at the moment, had a session harvest ale on tap with 10% and couldn't go to my other tap beers and I knew I had this one in the fridge. Lovely stuff Paul! Glad I grabbed a second bottle.


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## GrumpyPaul (23/9/17)

Glad you liked it Cam.

It was a break from big hoppy IPAs for me. It was nice to do something that was essentially easy drinking but not just another pale ale.


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## Danscraftbeer (6/10/17)

I've lost the notes I took of the No:13 Haters Wheat by Wiggman  Vague recollection its was something like:
Very good for Wheat beer ha. I'm not a great wheat beer fan but that's maybe because I've only tried commercial stuff that hasn't really grabbed me but this was very nice. It has the WB character I know but better than any shelf product I've tried.  I could easily session it.
Damb I wish I could find those notes it was much more descriptive.

Ahh awesome! I've got a second bottle of it. 
Low head, slight haze, slight bubble gum aroma or some kind of lolly aroma I cant pin point.
Clean, refreshing, low but lingering bitterness against maybe the most malty sweet flavored wheat beer I've tasted. I still cant pin point that lolly kind of character but its nice. I guess its the yeast and just a good blend well brewed.


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## TheWiggman (7/10/17)

15. Tahoose - Fortified stout
As far as stouts go it's light - I can see through it and it's actually a bright beer. Very deep auburn-copper-red. The carbonation borders on medium and holds a very nice cream-tan head that other beers would be jealous of. It's an interesting beer, immediately I got the impression it was a strong brown ale as aromatically I got a little hazelnut and a character that couldn't be described as anything but 'English ale'. Stout? I wouldn't call it a stout, nor a porter to be honest. It has aspects of both but as far as the package is concerned I'd label it a strong English ale. I can't make much of the fortified aspect of it, there's a hit of alcohol in the background (as you'd expect at 6.5%) but it doesn't come across as a lighter beer with alcohol added. And I don't think you'd want to either, so well done there. Lacks any sweetness (appropriately), very mild burnt character which lingers on the tongue and full body. Not a beer to be had in the summer sun. It is however something to sip away slowly while pondering yard work and spousal expectations while the kids watch a movie in the background. Cheers Tahoose, good to put a face to the name at the swap too.
Ed: crap maybe I should clean that window... after the beer.


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## TheWiggman (16/10/17)

5. droid - Nefarious Villain
Idiotically I was thinking this was another of Grumpy's beers (I ended up with a few somehow) and realised pretty quickly this was no pale ale. To be brutally honest I don't think I appreciate this beer, and I'll call it as I see it.
A velvety head rests on the top of the tar just like it should. Immediately I'm hit with a bourbon-come-horse blanket and the tang of perhaps cherry? First thoughts were it was a cherry sour, but then after a few sips it's less sour and more bourbon, or whiskey. It has a glazed cherry 'slant', and each element seems to jump out separately. Like if I'm thinking of an element, I taste it (mind games taking over senses again). Aromatically I'm not getting anything sour so I'm doubting there is actually a sour component to the blend, and it might be the barrel taste coming through. Well I'm assuming it's been oaked, in either whiskey or bourbon. It's not "RUM IN YO' FACE" like an example I had at a previous swap but it's very much there. The cherry tastes dies off the further I get into the glass which makes me want it more, but oddly it gets more balanced as it warms up even though I'm wanting that cherry. Maybe it's my original perception of the sourness playing around with my judgement but I am enjoying it more after having more. I think I read something about fruitcake or plum pudding earlier and I get it, but it doesn't taste fruity to me.
As a package for mine it's just a bit 'too much', which to be honest is not unusual for me for an oaked stout. I mean cherry, RIS-warmth, bourbon, oak, I read it's a blend so I'm left wondering how each element might have tasted on its own. The bitterness however matches the rest of the glass and the carbonation is A1. Many thanks for the experience droid, I hope I can taste beers in the future because this has given my palate the middle finger.

That's me for the swap, thanks for all those who put in and would be great if the numbers were up there next time.


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## droid (16/10/17)

Cheers Wiggy


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## droid (23/10/17)

this one has 24 on the lid? is this the haters perhaps?

Had a slight musty smell out of the bottle on opening. Poured well with a nice head and carbonation. 
Has a nice mouthfeel, it feels full a bit gummy like it's too full then it reaches for the top of the mouth with the fizz and lightens up, there's some kind of bubblegum flavour. Initially I thought there was a citrus hops but as the beer warms it's bubblegum. What was the yeast?
Head is nice and fine and hanging around with lacing all the way as well.
This is a beer that I can enjoy, would I line up another? depends what else was on offer, would I go back to it? if I was at a bar and went for something else after this and didn't like it I'd go for the safety and enjoyment this beer brings

thanks brewer of 24


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## GrumpyPaul (23/10/17)

Could it be a 14 not 24?
I think there was some bubblegum/banana esters in my American Rye...

You'll recognise mine...it was in a brown pet bottle,


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## TheWiggman (23/10/17)

If you've had a wheat beer before I think you'd pick mine, it's classic wheat with 3068. There wasn't anything citrus about it in my opinion but that pic does look a lot like mine (thought white balance can tell a lot of lies in digital photography).
You're a witty man Paul. I still have a 14 in the fridge actually, I'll crack it tomorrow for round 3.


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## droid (24/10/17)

it is def the number 24 I've used 3068 but it was a bit if a fail so hard to compare - it must be the Haters. I only got citrus once and on the first taste, which was probably just washing off a layer of stubborn hop oil from all the C IPA's recently


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## droid (24/10/17)

Danscraftbeer Red Earth, she's a bit out of focus as was I after drinking this as the last beer for the night.





Wow, this is a unique flavour but then as it warmed there was liqourice and some plum chocolate - not sure as it was last night now.
Lucky I have two bottles of this. The Mrs tried it and thought it was really nice too.
The abv seems right though I don't think you'd have to change the malt bill to really amp this up

Bloody nice drop Dan - well brewed!


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## Midnight Brew (1/11/17)

11. WhiteFerret's Old Ale

Woaaahhhhh, good drop Wayne.

Appearance: Copper/mahogany, small white head very clear, perfect carbonation for me.
Aroma: Sweet caramel notes paired with hints of booze
Flavour: Smooth, moreish, sweet but in the cold winters night way, that it needs to be. So smooth.
Overall: Love it, been keeping this at the back of the fridge for a special occasion. Glad I have one bottle left. Reminds me of the bummock but less Scottish. Really love it, would love the recipe to but a stash of bottles of these aside for winter.

EDIT: Far too easy to drink. Bottle gone already. Hope you're coming to the Xmas case swap Wayne!


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## Danscraftbeer (1/11/17)

I feel slack, still have half of the winter swaps to drink yet.
Grabbed one tonight. No 9. Checked back to the list and its 9. mofox1 - Heady Topperish.
The aroma is absolutely gorgeous. Fruity. I can smell from the opened bottle 2 feet away and from the glass if i step outside for a bit then smell it when I re enter the room. Not sure on the name relevance its seems low carbonation and low head. So this is an IPA thing? Its very much like very hop forward, malt forward beers I've made. ABV's must be up there feiw! In the flavor too and it warmed me up on this strange cold Spring night. Full on malt! Full on Hops! I like...


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