# Looking to do my First BIAB



## mattyg8 (28/4/15)

Ok so after picking up a 40L crown urn before Xmas and purchasing my first home. I'm finally looking forward to giving BIAB ago in the next few weeks!

For my first attempt I would like to try Dr Smurto Golden Ale, which he was more then happy to give me his recipe that ive attached.

I will be looking to get the grains from Keg King as they are just around the corner and have come up with the following grain bill:

0.8 x Joe White - Wheat Malt (per kg) AU$3.30
0.2 x Joe White - Dark Crystal Malt (per kg) AU$3.85
0.8 x Joe White - Munich (per kg) AU$3.60
2.4 x Simpsons - Maris Otter (per kg) AU$4.45

I will try to use Ians BIAB Spread sheet to help me along the way as I found the Kit spread sheet very helpful!
Here's a link with the reciepe added as it will not let me upload it https://www.dropbox.com/s/omvuehiv0gy2ud1/BIAB_Beer_Designer_v1.3%20%281%29.xls?dl=0

Now down to the brewing steps. Ive read over a few of the BIAB pages and am hoping to get a better understanding

1. Add desired water level 28.8L per spreadsheet , get temp up to strike rate 68.3 per spreadsheet
2. Kill the power, line with bag and add grains, stir with paint stirrer to prevent dough balls and place the urn cover on. Mash for period of time. 90 mins?
3. Raise bag off element and raise temp to 78C for mash out. Is this step included in the 90 min mash temp.
4. At 78C hoist bag over urn to get excess wort out of grain bag 
5. Get temp to rolling boil. Lid off?
6. Add bittering hops (Amarillo 15g) and start 60 min boil or 90?. Lid off?
7. Add hops at different times depending on reciepe. 20g with 20 mins to go.
8. 10 mins before end of boil and brewbrite. about 4g?
9. Create whirlpool and let sit for 10mins to help clear the wort
10. Transfer wort to cube for no chill.
11. Add dry hopping hops to cube and let it cool over night then ferment as usual.

Thanks heaps! 

View attachment Golden Ale - Award winning.pdf


View attachment BIAB_Beer_Designer_v1.3 (1).xls


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## Nizmoose (28/4/15)

mattyg8 said:


> Ok so after picking up a 40L crown urn before Xmas and purchasing my first home. I'm finally looking forward to giving BIAB ago in the next few weeks!
> 
> color=#2f2f2f]Now down to the brewing steps. Ive read over a few of the BIAB pages and am hoping to get a better understanding[/color]
> 
> ...


Added my suggestions in caps, sorry if you read it and can't read anything other than me screaming at you! But your process seems fairly well worked out and looks fairly good just a few little details to add.


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## technobabble66 (28/4/15)

mattyg8 said:


> Ok so after picking up a 40L crown urn before Xmas and purchasing my first home. I'm finally looking forward to giving BIAB ago in the next few weeks!
> 
> For my first attempt I would like to try Dr Smurto Golden Ale, which he was more then happy to give me his recipe that ive attached.
> 
> ...


1 - Sounds about right
2 - as per Niz, mash of 60mins is sufficient. However 90mins will achieve better efficiency (keep in mind this might only represent a handful of extra grain, though). I'm OCD & a tight-arse, so i do longer mashes.
3 - As per Niz, As per Niz, do the full time at the chosen temp (66°C) then ramp up to Mashout. Once at mash-out temp, you generally don't need to hold it there, though many do (as Niz suggested) - 1-2mins should be enough. Also, try to find a colander or steamer insert (etc) to place over the urn element. This'll mean you can just leave the bag in there and stir as you ramp up (or leave the lid on for the first 7-8°C - it'll be faster). I found it tricky raising the temp while lifting the bag, as my bag was out of the water & hence it cooled down as the water was being heated. So once i hit the right temp, dropped the bag in, then it was too cold again. Much faffing around ensued.
4 - I'd do as you wrote, though there's not going to be any harm in doing what Niz wrote either. Up to you. Might be easier to have a bucket/etc to hang the bag over - it'll continue dripping for a while (like 10-20mins) and it might be be in the way while you're trying to get the boil going
5 - as per Niz, i leave the lid on while ramping to the boil - DMS is not an issue during this phase. BUT, you need to be VERY careful as it approaches 100°C though - it'll boil over instantly if the lid's on when it hits boiling temp. What i do is sit a digital thermometer between the urn and the insulation, while the lid is on. I know for my urn, when it hits ~94°C it'll be boiling, so when the thermometer hits ~92°C, i'll take the lid off and sit there watching it to ensure when it starts boiling, there's no boil-overs - admittedly i have a 30L urn filled to 28L, so this is a much bigger issue for me than others.
6 - Lid off once it starts boiling for the rest of the process. Re: Boil time - Many do 60mins boils and many do 90mins boils (i do) - supposedly 90mins helps bring out the maltiness and does other things. But it's not necessary. Need to account for extra boil-off if you do the extra 20-30mins beyond the basic 60mins. With regards to hops boil time, see point 10.
7 - Yep, but see point 10
8 - Yep, but dunno about amount.
9 - Yep
10 - Yep. BUT - if you're no-chilling (doin' the whole cube thing), you need to account for the extra time the wort is at a temp above 80°C, whereby the Alpha Acids from the hops will continue to isomerise and produce more bitterness. DrSmurto accounts for the whirlpool in his recipe, so in theory you don't need to worry about that bit. However, you need to account for the extra time the wort is at high temps in the cube - this is generally estimated as an extra 15-20mins in the hops additions (e.g.: a 20min addition in the boil becomes a 35-40min addition on the spreadsheet). So basically, i'd be doing your 60min addition at 40min and putting your 20min addition in the cube (it's called cube-hopping); and doing your brewbrite as planned.
11 - NOPE - dry hops go in AFTER the bulk of fermentation. So the next day pour the cooled wort to the fermenter - try to strain out some of the cube hops if possible, then get fermenting. Wait until its either completely finished or close to it, and then throw in the dry hops.

Hope that helps and doesn't hinder!
2c


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## mattyg8 (28/4/15)

Thanks heaps to you both!

I will read through them both again when I get a chance and work out a check list as such.

I'm happy to go with 90 min mash and 90 min boil its just I will have to work out what I need to change on the spreadsheet so that I can work out the necessary initial water amount


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## Nizmoose (28/4/15)

Apologies for confusing you on point 11 matty, I completely skimmed the dry hop bit and read cube hops and yepped it when I shouldnt have haha, techno is on the money there!


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## boybrewer (28/4/15)

Remember your strike temp is the temp that your grains will go into and that will cool the temp by a few degrees . It could reduce the mash temp down to 60 - 62 degrees or even lower . If you want your mash temp at 68 odd degrees your strike water should be around the 74-76 degrees . Once you start the mash let it settle for 5-10 minutes take the temp and adjust as necessary , eg if the mash is too hot add some cold water if it is too cold ramp the temp up since you are using an urn .


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## technobabble66 (28/4/15)

@ beer belly: I think he's already onto it. 68.3*C is his strike temp to target 66*C mash temp. That seems about right - mine is normally 68*C for the same basic parameters. 

Re: mash and boil times, it's entirely up to you, depending on how time poor you are. You stand to add/cut ~1hr, so that may be important, and ultimately the gains in the extra time are definitely there but fairly minor nonetheless (at least for a golden ale).


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## mattyg8 (28/4/15)

Most brew days will be on a Sunday... an extra hour aint really gonna change much as I can still do stuff in the meantime. Just want to get a good routine down and make sure I have covered the steps


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## seamad (28/4/15)

Wrap the urn up in some insulation, helps mash temps plus quicker ramp times. Make a long scrubbing brush on a stick/pipe so that you can give the element ( if concealed) a quick clean before starting the boil ( with element off), no chance then of element cutting out. I no longer whirlpool, with the brewbrite I find you get a nice dense layer on the bottom that pretty well stays there during draining, no benefit in the faffing about required to whirlpool, just put the lid on for 10-15 minutes after the boil and drain.
good luck and maybe it's best not to drink until the boil ( sacrilegious to some ) and keep good notes.
cheers


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## mattyg8 (28/4/15)

cheers

I was looking at getting a http://www.fullpint.com.au/crown-urn-strainer/ to place in the bottom of the urn


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## stm (28/4/15)

A s/s roasting rack from a homewares shop should be sufficient. Bribie has a photo of this he always loads up.


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## technobabble66 (28/4/15)

The FullPint job looks like the bees knees, but if you wanted to save some cash the roasting rack (I couldn't ever find the right size/shape) or colander/steamer would also suffice.


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## shacked (28/4/15)

I've only done 8 BIABs in my 40L crown urn but what I've found is that it takes a few goes to get your efficiency up to an acceptable level. Maybe start closer to 60% for your first go and adjust from there.

+1 for insulation; I use an old sleeping bag and some towels.

I also find giving the concealed element a good scrub with something post mash helps. I've had the element cut out when brewing with rye and wheat in the grist (even in small quantities).

The drop in strainers / cake racks are also good. I use some cooking twine to fish my strainer out post mash; this also allows you to give the element a scrub.


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## Black Devil Dog (28/4/15)

It looks good and it will make decent beer.

There are a few things to consider, check the temperature a couple of times during the mash step. It can drop a bit and might need a boost. Be careful not to over shoot though.

Once you've got the whirlpool going, put the lid back on and give it a good half an hour. There's not much benefit in just doing a 10 min whirlpool. 30 mins lets much more trub settle.

The strainer in the pick you posted is the ducks nuts, I used to use one in my urn, just tie a bit of nylon cord to it so that you can retrieve it before bringing wort to boil. Depending on your pick up tube, you might need to cut an opening to allow it to fit.


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## mattyg8 (29/4/15)

Thanks for all your help! I will hopefully get around to doing it in the next few weeks!


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## mattyg8 (8/5/15)

How and what do you use to scrub the element after the mash?


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## oglennyboy (8/5/15)

I used undiluted star san smeared onto my concealed element to get the scorch to just peel off. This worked even for some serious black gunk that was rock solid. Takes hardly any, like keg lube on an o-ring, then let it sit for an hour or so.


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## mattyg8 (8/5/15)

I ment after the mash before the boil people mention to give the element a bit of a scrub to prevent the power kicking out


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## Bribie G (8/5/15)

I've heard that myself. You could make up a scrubber on a stick and practice first on the empty urn.
Aldi currently have kids sleeping bags for 15 dollars. However one really neat trick I saw at a brew day is to just invert the box it comes in over the urn. Guy only lost a degree and a half. If like me you chucked the box ....


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## mattyg8 (8/5/15)

Bribie G said:


> I've heard that myself. You could make up a scrubber on a stick and practice first on the empty urn.
> Aldi currently have kids sleeping bags for 15 dollars. However one really neat trick I saw at a brew day is to just invert the box it comes in over the urn. Guy only lost a degree and a half. If like me you chucked the box ....


Purchased second hand and didnt come with the box

Will check out the sleeping bags


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## Brewman_ (8/5/15)

mattyg8 said:


> How and what do you use to scrub the element after the mash?


I have an exposed element - Birko. I find it cleans up really well with a soak of brewwash over night, hose off done.



oglennyboy said:


> I used undiluted star san smeared onto my concealed element to get the scorch to just peel off. This worked even for some serious black gunk that was rock solid. Takes hardly any, like keg lube on an o-ring, then let it sit for an hour or so.


Now I have never used a concealed element urn, but I'm curious why you need clean the element with a starsan? I thought being concealed it would remain clean?

Cheers Steve


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## wereprawn (8/5/15)

Brewman_ said:


> I have an exposed element - Birko. I find it cleans up really well with a soak of brewwash over night, hose off done.
> 
> Now I have never used a concealed element urn, but I'm curious why you need clean the element with a starsan? I thought being concealed it would remain clean?
> 
> Cheers Steve


I use an 30 ltr urn with a concealed element and the metal directly above the element gets a fair bit of crap stuck to it at times. Did back to back brews a while ago and didn't bother cleaning the urn out well, on the second brew the boil kept cutting out. Had to move the wort out of it and clean the bottom. Had a strong boil without the urn cutting out again.


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## Brewman_ (8/5/15)

wereprawn said:


> I use an 30 ltr urn with a concealed element and the metal directly above the element gets a fair bit of crap stuck to it at times. Did back to back brews a while ago and didn't bother cleaning the urn out well, on the second brew the boil kept cutting out. Had to move the wort out of it and clean the bottom. Had a strong boil without the urn cutting out again.


OK, I never realised they did that.

I am guessing the build up of debris reduces the heat transfer to the urn volume and trips the over heat switch on the element.

Apparently the Birko is heading the same way with a concealed element. Not sure when, but it is coming.

Anyway not to divert from the OP.


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## mattyg8 (11/5/15)

Where abouts can I get one of these mashes


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## Bribie G (11/5/15)

That's mine. I got it from a dulux trade centre. It's now about six years old but they should still have similar.


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## mattyg8 (13/5/15)

Bribie G said:


> That's mine. I got it from a dulux trade centre. It's now about six years old but they should still have similar.


Cheers Ill have to see where my closest one is


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## mattyg8 (13/5/15)

Ok so I'm running the numbers through the BIAB spreadsheet and have adjusted efficiency to 60% for first time use.
Allowing for 90 min mash with mash out at 78c for 10 mins and 90 min boil.

I plan on picking up the grain bill during next week.

using the original grain bill
0.8 x Joe White - Wheat Malt (per kg) AU$3.30
0.2 x Joe White - Dark Crystal Malt (per kg) AU$3.85
0.8 x Joe White - Munich (per kg) AU$3.60
2.4 x Simpsons - Maris Otter (per kg) AU$4.45

It only works out at OG 1.037 FG 1.012 ABV 3.2 Keg

What would numbers should I increase the grain bill to to acheive a 4.5-5% abv whilst keeping the balance the same? 

View attachment BIAB_Beer_Designer_v1.3.xls


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## Nizmoose (13/5/15)

mattyg8 said:


> Ok so I'm running the numbers through the BIAB spreadsheet and have adjusted efficiency to 60% for first time use.
> Allowing for 90 min mash with mash out at 78c for 10 mins and 90 min boil.
> 
> I plan on picking up the grain bill during next week.
> ...


To achieve the same balance I'd be looking at the IBU:GU ratio and trying to maintain that and then adding the same amount of everything to bump up the OG. If you were to add only spec malt you'd have a sweeter beer with probably not much more abv, if you add just base malt yu'll get more abv but it maayy taste a bit drier. Just bump all your ingredients (including hops) a few percent to get closer to say 1.045 OG

EDIT: I looked through the thread to try and find what final volume into the fermenter you're aiming for but couldn't which makes it hard to suggest an exact amount. But with whatever software you're using add say 10% in weight to every ingredient and see where that gets you. Your late hops might not really need changing much but your bittering addition will want to be put up to maintain a somewhat similar IBU:GU ratio.


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## mattyg8 (13/5/15)

Oh Ive put it in the Spreadsheet at 21L to allow for keg and a couple of bottles


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## Joel Mcleod (13/5/15)

Ran ur recipe through biabicus. Its almost looked like the following in %.
MO - 55%
Munich - 20%
Crystal - 5%
Wheat - 20%
Changed the OG from 1.038 to 1.050 & your amounts changed to following:
MO: 3050g
Munich: 1100g
Crystal: 280g
Wheat: 1100g

Hope that helped & not hindered.


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## Joel Mcleod (13/5/15)

Sorry, that should get u about 4.8% abv


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## mattyg8 (13/5/15)

I added those values into the spread sheet and came with the following.


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## Nizmoose (13/5/15)

Not sure if joe changed the efficiency to 60% but the difference in OG is either that or simply a difference in software, its an acceptable amount of error as it's highly unlikely you'll hit 60% efficiency on the head. I'd do the recipe of what youve got in that screen shot then measure your pre-boil gravity, boil, then measure post-boil gravity. If you end up with a mash efficiency of more like 75% which is highly possible then just use a calculator (eg brewers friend dilution calculator) to add some top up water to the fermenter if you like to get you closer to your desired OG. Keep in mind that it will dilute the hops a bit so keep ay top up to a minimum. With what you're aiming for if you hit anywhere betweeen 1.047 and 1.052 I wouldn't worry about any top up. These initial batches on your system will not be hitting OG's on the head because you need to run a few batches through your set-up to know what to expect. For me for example I started with my software set to 70% but am usually getting around the 80% mark for mash efficiency. I was only able to obtain that number after a few batches (I have had 78%, 65% on a mistake brew day, 85%, 80%,79%). So now I just set my software to 75% mash efficency and I get what I get at the end, normally within 2 gravity points of my target without the need to mess with volume post boil. In short, brew what you have there, write down ALL of the numbers, then see what you get and adjust your software accordingly. Hope that helps


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## Nizmoose (13/5/15)

If it's any help here's the brew day sheet I made up to make sure I record all my numbers, don't worry about the starting water box, I fill my 30L fermenter before a brew day and use that outside as my water supply so that volume goes there so I can track it.


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## mattyg8 (13/5/15)

Yeh I will go with the one I have attached and that's why I started with a low efficiency as I'm sure there are going to be some errors along the way.

Ill do all my measurements pre and post boil gravity to work out efficiency 

thanks for your help!


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## Joel Mcleod (13/5/15)

Good luck & and enjoy ur 1st BIAB mate!


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## mattyg8 (21/5/15)

Placed an order and going to pick up the grains tonight to do a brew on sunday, Now they didn't have any brew bright, Is whirfloc tablets pretty much same thing?


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## crowmanz (21/5/15)

mattyg8 said:


> Placed an order and going to pick up the grains tonight to do a brew on sunday, Now they didn't have any brew bright, Is whirfloc tablets pretty much same thing?


pretty much the same, the dr smurto recipe actually uses whirfloc tablets anyway


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## Rocker1986 (21/5/15)

mattyg8 said:


> cheers
> 
> I was looking at getting a http://www.fullpint.com.au/crown-urn-strainer/ to place in the bottom of the urn


I've got one of these things. It works very well for being able to heat the mash up for mashout without the faffing about of lifting the grain bag. Have used it for Hockhurz mashes as well. I do need to make up something to remove it prior to boiling though so I can get at the element to clean it off (liking the idea of a stiff brush on a long handle there). Also if you leave it in, all the kettle trub settles on it, instead of the actual bottom of the urn. 

Bit of citric acid and some water boiled for a few minutes easily removes any scale. I then let it cool to lukewarm before going at it with some steel wool. Cleans up like new every time.

I also don't bother whirlpooling for the same reason mentioned - the trub settles well enough on its own below the tap level (I too use Brewbrite), and I actually have found that it takes longer for the trub to be drawn into the tap without whirlpooling than it does with whirlpooling. I've been doing it for nearly 3 years so I have my process down pat. I can fill a cube with wort without needing to squeeze air out, at just about the same time as the trub starts being drawn into the tap. Maximum wort, no kettle trub to speak of.


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## mattyg8 (21/5/15)

Thanks heaps guys...wish me luck!

This is my process I hope to follow

[SIZE=10.5pt]1. [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]Add desired water level per spreadsheet, get temp up to strike rate per spreadsheet.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]2. [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]Kill the power, line with bag and add grains, stir with paint stirrer to prevent dough balls and place the urn cover on and insulate with sleeping bag.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]3. [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]Mash for period of time 90 mins.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]4. [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]Stir and Raise temp to 78C for mash out for 10 mins. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]5. [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]Hoist bag over urn or bucket to get excess wort out of grain bag.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]6. [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]Remove crown urn strainer from bottom.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]7. [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]Scrub element to prevent element cut out.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]8. [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]Get temp to rolling boil. Lid on until close to boiling.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]9. [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]Start boil timer for 90 mins.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]10. [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]Add bittering hops Amarillo 15g at 40 min to account for no chill. (instead of 60 mins if chilling)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]11. [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]10-15 mins before end of boil add brewbrite or ½ whirfloc tablet.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]12. [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]Create whirlpool and let sit for 30 mins to help clear the wort or just don’t worry.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]13. [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]Transfer wort to cube for no chill. Add Amarillo 20g to cube (usually at 20mins boil if chilling)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10.5pt]14. [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]Ferment the next day as normal.[/SIZE]


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## mattyg8 (28/5/15)

So got around to doing my first BIAB last night and I must thank you all for helping me through it! 

I have no chilled and will ferment it over the weekend. I will be able to work out the efficiency once the wort cools down to room temp.

One query I had was after the 90 min mash period I took the insulation off and the lid and turned the urn up to 78deg for mash out. Whilst it rising in temps I continued to stir the grain using the paint stirrer until it hit 78 deg.

Once at 78 deg I turned off the urn and placed the lid on for 10 mins, Is this correct?

Thanks again all!


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## mattyg8 (28/5/15)

So got around to doing my first BIAB last night and I must thank you all for helping me through it! 

I have no chilled and will ferment it over the weekend. I will be able to work out the efficiency once the wort cools down to room temp.

One query I had was after the 90 min mash period I took the insulation off and the lid and turned the urn up to 78deg for mash out. Whilst it rising in temps I continued to stir the grain using the paint stirrer until it hit 78 deg.

Once at 78 deg I turned off the urn and placed the lid on for 10 mins, Is this correct?

Thanks again all!


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## Rocker1986 (28/5/15)

mattyg8 said:


> One query I had was after the 90 min mash period I took the insulation off and the lid and turned the urn up to 78deg for mash out. Whilst it rising in temps I continued to stir the grain using the paint stirrer until it hit 78 deg.
> 
> Once at 78 deg I turned off the urn and placed the lid on for 10 mins, Is this correct?
> 
> Thanks again all!


Sounds fair enough to me. That's basically what I do with mine as well. I have a themometer probe dangling in the wort so I can switch the urn off when it gets to around 78 (or whatever temperature step I'm raising it to). 

How did it all go? No major hiccups or anything?


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## mattyg8 (28/5/15)

Rocker1986 said:


> Sounds fair enough to me. That's basically what I do with mine as well. I have a themometer probe dangling in the wort so I can switch the urn off when it gets to around 78 (or whatever temperature step I'm raising it to).
> 
> How did it all go? No major hiccups or anything?


Yeah I stirred and held the prob of the digital thermometer in the wort. Yeah it went pretty good actually. I'm sure there's a few things I can do next time to make it more time efficient


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## Rocker1986 (28/5/15)

Yeah, you'll get to know and work out your system a little more each time you do a batch. I'm still working out ways to improve my processes after nearly 3 years of doing it. Most of it is down pat now but there are a few little things that I think of every now and then.

Glad to hear that it went well though, it's a pretty simple process and if you do it right, it produces some great beers.


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## mattyg8 (1/6/15)

Managed to put this in the fermenter tonight... I got a sg of 1.060 which puts the efficiency at about 74% not to bad for my first attempt with all your help. 

One thing was I only got about 19 litres of wort when I aimed to get 21L. There was a bit of wort left in the urn but it had all the bits in it. 

I only had treb loss at 1.5 in the spreadsheet but seems there was more left in the urn. So I can assumed that I need to raise the loss up a bit more in the spreadsheet?

I ended up adding some more water to get it up to 21L


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## Rocker1986 (1/6/15)

What SG were you aiming for?

Maybe somehow try measuring the amount of trub left over next time you do a brew? It's pretty hard to estimate how much is in there just by looking at it.


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## mattyg8 (1/6/15)

I set the spreadsheet to 60% efficiency as I have never done it before and it predicted a 1.048 sg


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## Rocker1986 (1/6/15)

Ah yep. Definitely gone over that 60% then, not a bad thing either. What was the SG after you added the couple of litres water to top it up?


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## mattyg8 (1/6/15)

It was about 1.056-1058


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## Rocker1986 (1/6/15)

A fair bit over the predicted then, nice work! Your efficiency may increase a bit more as you refine your processes and get more used to your system as well but that's a decent start.

I think my first one I got 65% or something, but now I regularly get between 70% and 75%, mostly towards the higher end though. I'm happy enough with that though, the consistency makes recipe design easy.


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## mattyg8 (2/6/15)

Yeh thought it would be best to start with a low predicted efficiency and adjust it for future brews.

Cant wait to decide on the next recipe to make


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## Rocker1986 (2/6/15)

It's a good idea yeah. It'll take a few runs through it to get an idea of what your average efficiency is, but once you work that out, it can be used as the default in your brewing software. When you get to the stage of designing your own recipes, it makes it much easier.

I jumped in the deep end a bit when I started AG, did that one recipe from Craftbrewer which came with basic instructions on the BIAB method, then went straight into designing my own recipes. I had done some recipe design with extracts though so it wasn't too much of a step to using grains. One lager I did came out about 1.5% more ABV than I was expecting because my efficiency was higher and I hadn't changed it in the software. :blink: :lol:


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## oglennyboy (2/6/15)

Nice work mattyg8, I found with only a couple of brews that efficiency was regularly mid-80% when measuring before transfer to the fermenter. It was the variability of the trub volume that threw out my efficiency measured into the fermenter, sometimes knocking it back from 85% to 65%. 
So I started being a bit more lax in what I let into the fermenter: not being so fussed with the fluffy cold break, but stopping before too much of the denser looking hot break & hop gunk came through. It's worth another 2-3 litres or so into the fermenter and there appears to be no impact on the quality of the final beer - clarity & taste are fine.
There's a good comparison floating around here, links to a chap who did an experiment where he fermented the clean runnings off the top of the urn in one batch, then all the crap in the bottom half. End result: doesn't really matter. A more compact trub in the fermenter gives you a little bit more final volume compared with trying to leave it in the urn.
cheers!


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## mattyg8 (2/6/15)

Yeh I see what you are both saying...thanks heaps!


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## Rocker1986 (2/6/15)

You have to be a little careful how much of the trubby shit goes into the fermenter - if only because the popular style of fermenters in Australia are the bucket and tap type ones. If you siphon the beer I guess it's no issue but if using the tap it'd be preferable for the trub layer to settle below it. Last batch I just bottled last week I dumped a heap of trub and shit in with it from the cube, but it was a bit too much and the layer was about on the tap level. I prefer it lower than that simply to avoid getting it in bottles. The taste of the beer is fine, however.

Depends on your system too. On my system I've worked it out to be able to completely fill a 25 litre cube and leave only trub in the urn. That last batch I mentioned was a screw up in that part of it, but usually it's no problem.


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## mattyg8 (10/6/15)

took a reading and its at 1.020 at day 9, the recipe calls for 20g dry hop. I have never really dried hopped before so when would be best to do this? I tend to cold crash for 3-4 days


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## Rocker1986 (10/6/15)

What yeast did you use on it? Doesn't sound like it's finished fermenting yet, although it's far enough through that you can add the dry hops with no issues. If you prefer, you can wait until it finishes fermenting, throw in the dry hops, give it another couple of days before cold crashing for your 3-4 days.

Also, I forgot to mention this - there really isn't much point in shifting bittering additions to account for no-chill. The difference between a 60 minute boil and an 80 minute boil is sweet **** all in terms of bitterness extracted, and it would be even less when during the extra 20 minutes or whatever it is, the wort isn't even boiling, and is cooling down. So yeah, in the future I wouldn't worry about it. That adjustment theory is more aimed at late kettle additions. And even then, I question a "standard" 20 minute rule for everything.


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## mattyg8 (10/6/15)

I used us-05 usually it gets down to about 1.014, Ill wait a few more days do a reading and add hops for few days then cold crash


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## Rocker1986 (10/6/15)

Ok, yeah, I'd expect 05 to get down lower than 1020. Maybe try bumping the temperature up a couple of degrees and see if that kicks it along a bit.


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## mattyg8 (10/6/15)

yeh I usually ferment at 18deg, Ill raise the temp up to 20deg or should I go a little higher?


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## Rocker1986 (10/6/15)

You could probably go to 21ish if you wanted to. I normally ferment at 18 as well, but around the 5 day mark I raise the controller up to about 20-21 and let it come up on its own, and leave it there until it finishes.


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## mattyg8 (10/7/15)

Forgot to update this thread but it came out amazing!

Will look at doing my second one soon and will need some help configuring a diffrent recipe to suit my methods


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## mattyg8 (10/7/15)

What software do people use to convert ingredient amounts to suit different batch sizes?

I plan on making Dano's Hop Hog Clone (Recipe 4) http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/80776-danos-all-grain-feral-hop-hog-clone/page-8

in the next few days ill try work out what grain substitutions I can use for what I have access to and Hop Schedule to suit my brewing techniques


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## Rocker1986 (10/7/15)

I use Beersmith, no affiliation blah blah blah, but the calculation can be done without software.

Divide your desired batch size by the recipe quoted batch size, then simply multiply all ingredient amounts by that figure.

In the case of that recipe let's say you want to do a 23 litre batch

23/25 = 0.92.

5.15x0.92 = 4.74
0.59x0.92 = 0.542
0.15x0.92 = 0.138

And so on and so on with the rest of the ingredients. It's obviously more time consuming though.

In saying that, software is handy and when you get into designing your own recipes will be very useful, so it wouldn't be a bad idea to get one of them anyway. Beersmith, brewmate etc. They're all pretty good programs.


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## mattyg8 (10/7/15)

Haha didn't even think about just calculating it. I just use Ian's Biab spreedsheet.

I tried beersmith but couldnt really work it out


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## mattyg8 (13/7/15)

Ohk, So I plan on doing Dano's Hop Hog Clone Recipe 4 and after entering the recipe into Ians BIAB spreedsheet I get the following 





Obviously the IBU's are through the roof as I No Chill!
What can I modify to get these down?
I also did a 30min Whirlpool for my first BIAB that I could drop if that helps?

Here is Dano's Hop Schedule

[SIZE=9pt]Hops[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt] Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt] 33.00 g. Magnum Pellet 10.28 36.1 60 min.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt] 12.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 8.62 5.5 15 min.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt] 12.00 g. Cascade Pellet 7.93 5.0 15 min.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt] 12.00 g. Centennial Pellet 9.33 5.9 15 min.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt] 17.00 g.  Amarillo Gold Pellet 8.00 0.0 Whirlpool at 70 degrees.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt] 17.00 g. Cascade Pellet 5.60 0.0 Whirlpool at 70 degrees.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt] 17.00 g. Centennial Pellet 9.90 0.0 Whirlpool at 70 degrees.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=9pt] 25.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 8.62 0.0 Dry Hop - Aim for 4 days of dry hop time[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt] 25.00 g. Cascade Pellet 7.93 0.0 Dry Hop - Aim for 4 days of dry hop time[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt] 25.00 g. Centennial Pellet 9.33 0.0 Dry Hop - Aim for 4 days of dry hop time[/SIZE]

Also with the grains I only really have Keg King as an option, and could possibly try get to Full Pint.

Dano's recipe calls for

[SIZE=9pt] % Amount Name Origin Potential EBC[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt] 87.5 5.15 kg. Barrett Burston - Ale Malt Australia 1.038 6[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt] 10.0 0.59 kg. Weyermann Munich I Germany 1.038 15[/SIZE]
[SIZE=9pt] 2.5 0.15 kg. Weyermann Caramunich II Germany 1.035 125[/SIZE]

What grains could I substitute?

Thanks Heaps


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## Rocker1986 (13/7/15)

The general idea when no-chilling is to adjust the late kettle additions. The bittering addition itself won't add much extra bitterness from no-chilling (maybe a couple of IBUs); it's the late additions that change more. Even then, they're impossible to predict. To be honest it's not something I've ever bothered with and my beers have never ended up being way over the top more bitter than I expected when formulating the recipes, or even more bitter at all really. Maybe I'm just weird. 

For that recipe perhaps you could shift the 15 minute additions to flameout. Looking at that screen shot though, you will need to drop the Magnum back first to get to about 50IBUs or whatever the original is, but it looks as if the spreadsheet takes the no-chill into account, to a degree anyway. Those zero minute additions are contributing IBUs, as they would when being added to near boiling wort. Another option could be to leave it as is (but still drop the amount of Magnum back), drop the zero minute additions and make a hop tea in 70C water with them instead, before straining this into the FV when you tip the batch in. This way you still get their influence but no extra IBUs.


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## mattyg8 (13/7/15)

Yeah there is an option under BIAB page to select chill or not chill, in the notes is states, chill/no chill option for hop additions. The no chill option adds 15 minutes to the hop times for IBU calculations.
I didn't change the schedule for Dr Smuto's Golden Ale but there weren't as many hops.

I set it to no chill. 

With flame-out that refers to once the 90 min boil is done and you turn off the heating element? So I would add the hops after this and create a whirlpool to sit for 30 mins or just don't whirlpool?

I changed the magnum hops to 25g, moved the 15 mins to flame-out and can create a hop tea at 70 deg's which I can add to fermentor when I go to ferment.

Does any one have any ideas regarding grain substitution?


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## mattyg8 (13/7/15)

Yeah there is an option under BIAB page to select chill or not chill, in the notes is states, chill/no chill option for hop additions. The no chill option adds 15 minutes to the hop times for IBU calculations.
I didn't change the schedule for Dr Smuto's Golden Ale but there weren't as many hops.

I set it to no chill. 

With flame-out that refers to once the 90 min boil is done and you turn off the heating element? So I would add the hops after this and create a whirlpool to sit for 30 mins or just don't whirlpool?

I changed the magnum hops to 25g, moved the 15 mins to flame-out and can create a hop tea at 70 deg's which I can add to fermentor when I go to ferment.

Does any one have any ideas regarding grain substitution?


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## indica86 (13/7/15)

mattyg8 said:


> [SIZE=9pt]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------[/SIZE]
> [SIZE=9pt] 87.5 5.15 kg. Barrett Burston - Ale Malt Australia 1.038 6[/SIZE]
> [SIZE=9pt] 10.0 0.59 kg. Weyermann Munich I Germany 1.038 15[/SIZE]
> [SIZE=9pt] 2.5 0.15 kg. Weyermann Caramunich II Germany 1.035 125[/SIZE]
> ...


Joe White light Munich, some form of light crystal for the caramunich and then whatever ale malt.

Flameout is when you turn the heat off.

If I was doing it I'd keep the Magnum as is then dump the rest - apart from the dry hop - in at flameout. That works well for me with no chill.


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## contrarian (13/7/15)

In terms of grain substitution most suppliers will have an ale malt which will be fine and munich. They should also have a straight swap for caramunich but if that isn't available any crystal malt should be fine, the main difference will be colour so if that is important and you can't get caramunich look for a crystal or cara malt with a similar EBC.

For no chill some people don't adjust hop additions at all while some add 15 minutes as a rule of thumb for late additions. More recently I have been adding late hops (under 15 minutes) into the whirlpool with good results and have also had success with adding late hops straight into the cube prior to transferring wort.

Either way that is going to be a super hoppy beer!

I would suggest choosing a method such as those mentioned above and giving it a go. Take some notes and next time you brew this make modifications to suit your palate.


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## mattyg8 (13/7/15)

Thanks guys! I loved this beer when I tried it and even the wife liked it!


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## Rocker1986 (13/7/15)

You can whirlpool or not, that is up to you. The flameout hops go in when you turn off the heat, yes. I personally don't whirlpool; I have a Crown urn, and I found whirlpooling actually led to the shit being drawn into the tap outlet earlier than not whirlpooling, when it was drained into the cube, so I decided not to bother with it.

I think the best way to deal with hop adjustment for no-chilling is to just work it out for your own tastes. This "move all additions 15-20 minutes forward" theory doesn't suit all applications, because you have situations like mine where no-chilling doesn't seem to affect it at all, and others who have issues of beers being way too bitter. Then you have issues of brewing recipes where the method and timing of chilling isn't even noted at all, so how do you know how long the wort sat hot before it was chilled in order to adjust anything? You don't. This particular recipe does note this, so it makes it easier, but a lot don't.


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## mattyg8 (14/7/15)

Great advise guys!


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## shacked (14/7/15)

Re: grain substitution, I use this chart: http://www.brew.is/files/malt.html


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## mattyg8 (15/7/15)

Yeah I came across that substitution chart, Looks like Magnum hops wont be in for a few weeks, whats a good subsitution? Quick search on the net I see northern brewer hops is mentioned?


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## mattyg8 (15/7/15)

With creating the hop tea to add to the fermenter how long should I let it sit in the 70deg water and how much water should I use


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## shacked (15/7/15)

Hop tea: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JBhgCAwFxGM


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## mattyg8 (31/7/15)

Ok put down this brew the other day and its just chilling in the cube. Will create a hop tea once I'm ready to ferment.

A few things id like to ask to refine my technique. For this brew I dropped the whirlpool and just let it sit for 10 mins after flameout.

When adding water to the urn at the start of the brew do people just add hot water from the tap? or start off with cold water? as it takes a long time to reach the usual strike temp.


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## Rocker1986 (31/7/15)

I start off with cold water. I heat it up to strike temp while I'm milling the grains; I just use the hand crank at the moment, so it takes a little while. I also find if it's a few degrees too cold that it's a lot easier to heat it up those few degrees pretty quickly rather than trying to drop it down which would take bloody ages by comparison. Mind you, in Melbourne it might be a little different to Brisbane!


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## mattyg8 (31/7/15)

Yeah I just buy my grain pre milled atm. I do find that it can take over 40 mins just for it to heat up to around 70deg.


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## Rocker1986 (31/7/15)

Yeah, that sounds about the same as mine depending on the time of year of course, and the type of mash I'm doing. Most hot water systems only heat it to about 60Cish so you may be fine to use it, or you could fill it up with warmish water to reduce the heating time. I may well start doing that myself when I stop using the hand crank to mill my grains.


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## mattyg8 (31/7/15)

Yeah I started to fill will hot water from the tap but noticed it was a little bit cloudy but then again that's probably to do with the starsan I sprayed in the urn!


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## gap (31/7/15)

Depends on your hot water system.
would'nt like to use hot water from a storage system.


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## mattyg8 (31/7/15)

gap said:


> Depends on your hot water system.
> would'nt like to use hot water from a storage system.


The hot water comes from the mains


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## gap (31/7/15)

> The hot water comes from the mains


It must come from a Hot Water System of some sort surely?


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## mattyg8 (31/7/15)

oh woops sorry I mean we have a rinnai water heater at the back of the house


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## contrarian (31/7/15)

Why would you sanitise a kettle/urn you are going to boil for at least an hour? Seems redundant to me.


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## indica86 (31/7/15)

Rocker1986 said:


> Yeah, that sounds about the same as mine depending on the time of year of course, and the type of mash I'm doing. Most hot water systems only heat it to about 60Cish so you may be fine to use it, or you could fill it up with warmish water to reduce the heating time. I may well start doing that myself when I stop using the hand crank to mill my grains.


Is that Nick Cave or.... OVB?


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## Vini2ton (31/7/15)

My baby done left this town. Now I use a hand crank to mill my grains. Down home blues. Magic.


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## Rocker1986 (1/8/15)

indica86 said:


> Is that Nick Cave or.... OVB?


OVB mate :lol:

Yeah no need to spray the urn with Starsan. Also hot water is pretty well always cloudy - it's just tiny air bubbles in it. If you let it sit for a couple of minutes it goes clear as the bubbles rise and burst.


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## mattyg8 (3/8/15)

Hoping to ferment this brew tonight as was flat out over the weekend. I need to do a hop tea. How much water should I use?


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## Alex.Tas (3/8/15)

3-4 litres should be enough. I would use wort from your cube rather than water though.


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## mattyg8 (3/8/15)

Sounds good, Yeah will use wort. So I should aim to get to 70 degs and add let it steep for 10 mins


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## Alex.Tas (3/8/15)

Yeah, i would probably go a little hotter. Closer to 80. 10-15 min should be fine too.


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## mattyg8 (3/8/15)

Cheers, thanks heaps


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