# RecipeDB - DrSmurto's Golden Ale



## drsmurto

DrSmurto's Golden Ale  Ale - English Best (Special) Bitter  All Grain               169 Votes        Brewer's Notes 0 min hops are dry hops in secondary. Yeast is US-05 (although my personal favourite is WY1272 - American Ale II). Mash in 66, mash out 78. Ferment at 18C. So easy! So tasty! 31 IBU in beersmith.EDIT 12/10/08My latest variation used JW trad and JW caramalt instead of Wey Pils and Wey Caramunich. Hops adjusted to 20 min and flame-out. No dry hopping. Scored 46/50 at ANAWBS 2008 and was best beer of show (bottle conditioned for 2 months).KIT VERSION1 can Thomas Coopers Sparkling Ale1 can Coopers Wheat Malt250g Caramalt (or other light crystal)15g Amarillo @ 15, 5 and dry hop.Yeast - US05If doing full extract, replace the can of Sparkling Ale with a can of unhopped light malt extract. Add a 60 min bittering addition of 20g of Amarillo.EDIT - 7/09/2011Try replacing the wheat with rye. Any american hop works well in this recipe.   Malt & Fermentables    % KG Fermentable      2.4 kg Weyermann Pilsner    0.8 kg Weyermann Pale Wheat    0.8 kg Weyermann Munich I    0.25 kg Weyermann Caramunich I       Hops    Time Grams Variety Form AA      20 g Amarillo (Pellet, 8.9AA%, 60mins)    15 g Amarillo (Pellet, 8.9AA%, 10mins)    15 g Amarillo (Pellet, 8.9AA%, 5mins)    15 g Amarillo (Pellet, 8.9AA%, 0mins)       Yeast     11.5 g DCL Yeast US-05 - American Ale       Misc     0.5 tablet Whirfloc         20L Batch Size    Brew Details   Original Gravity 1.047 (calc)   Final Gravity 1.012 (calc)   Bitterness 33 IBU   Efficiency 70%   Alcohol 4.54%   Colour 15 EBC   Batch Size 20L     Fermentation   Primary 14 days   Secondary 14 days


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## matti

Que what :huh: 
No late hopping at all....

How did the bittering turn out?


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## drsmurto

Not sure which recipe you are looking at matti. 15g @ 10 and 5 mins.

Its not overpowering and the bittering isnt harsh to my taste. Its a real easy drinker that the boys at the SA xmas case swap last year seemed to enjoy.


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## Adamt

You might have looked at it as he was still compiling it... these topics get created as soon as you put the name in.


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## domonsura

This beer gets my vote without hesitation, It was on tap at the swap day at my place last year and after that i wouldn't give Smurto his keg back until it was empty  i then managed to get another keg off him which lasted a grand total of 8 days in my special care....:lol:
AWESOME hop flavour, the bitterness was just to my taste as well. I brewed this the other day and I'm very much looking forward to kegging (and drinking it of course) so I can make some more  Going to be on tap at my place for the forseeable future.

edit: spelling


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## matti

> You might have looked at it as he was still compiling it... these topics get created as soon as you put the name in.



Correctomundo

I see the late hopping now.
I will have ago at something similar my self.
My last one turned out a bit too harch, though it was a partial adhoc recipe.

Matti

add on edit I like some cascade in there as well


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## Back Yard Brewer

RecipeDB said:


> This is the discussion topic for the recipe: DrSmurto's Golden Ale



What do you have your efficiency set at?

BYB


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## drsmurto

70%. Colour is spot on. Only the IBUs are out, 31 using tinseth in beersmith.

And cascade would work equally well IMO maybe even in combo with the amarillo. 

I had 500+g of amarillo at one point so this was my house ale for a long time and never did seem to last very long. :chug:


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## captaincleanoff

about to give this recipe a go!

just want to make sure... it says "0 mins hops are in secondary." Does this mean these hops are added to secondary fermentation? May be a stupid question, I just want to make sure


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## brettprevans

what normally that would mean (and correct me if im wrong Smurto if you meant somwthing differant for your recipe), is for dry hopping you want primary fermentation to mostly be over so the CO2 being prodcued doestn drive off the hop aroma and flavour of dry hopping. hence adding it to secondary or to the primary once fermentation has just about finished (or when it has 10% of gravity left to ferment out I think is the technical time to do it).

edit: grammer


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## drsmurto

Spot on CM2 - i rack after 7 days and add the hops in a tea ball. If i am dry hopping in the keg i skip this step (well, not always  )


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## captaincleanoff

got a 20l batch of this done on saturday. Looks/smells great!


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## domonsura

I'm kegging a 50 litre batch of this tonight


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## cliffo

Seems to be the beer of the moment.

I did a batch on the weekend though had to substitute the Amarillo with Centenial.


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## drsmurto

Wow, seems to be quite popular. Very easy drinker tho, doesnt last long on tap.

Reminds me, i have some amarillo floating around in the freezer, its been too long since i made one of these.


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## braufrau

I tried to vote for this but I don't know how to!
The littel star thingy at the top of the recipe lets me "set my rating" but it doesn't have any effect on the number of votes.


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## Rustyc30

just kegged one of these aswell having the first glass from it bloody good recipe Drsmurto think it will stay on as a house ale over winter to give me a break from the other dark beers I have on tap at the moment


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## trogdor

+1 for this one! 

Just cracked one on the weekend, f*ing nice (although cascade was used coz I already had it laying around). Gonna have to get my act together and brew another coz I this can't see this batch lasting too long  

Cheers


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## jojai

Hey, 
I just got all my grain and hops in the mail, cheers Ross! I'm all ready to get a batch going now but the recipe is a bit light on instructions for a first time all grainer... 

"Mash in 66, mash out 78."

How long for each of these steps? And mash out is when I've transfered the sparge water to the kettle right? 

Also, at what point in the whole process are the hops added? 60 mins during mash in? 10 mins during mash out? Then 5 mins.... somewhere else? I understand the 0 mins for secondary though  

Thanks in advance for any help  - Joseph.


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## drsmurto

Ok, mash in means the temperature of the mash - so in this case its 66C. Leave it for an hour and then add enough boiling water to bring the mash temp up to 78. This isnt crucial so if you dont want to do it you dont have to. Bringing the temp up to 78 is called the mash out.

I boil for 90 mins routinely so in this case, the first hop addition is at 60 mins (ie - 60 mins from the end of the boil, 30 mins from the start of the boil). The flavour/aroma hops are then added at 15 and 5 mins from the end of the boil.

If you want the beersmith file send me a PM and i can email it to you.


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## razz

Funny this thread getting more comment. I was just in the shed sampling my copy of the good doctor's recipe. Two weeks in the keg and it's yummy !


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## jojai

Hey, cheers Doc! That explains it clear enough  I'm going to go get to it before the sun sets  thanks again, hope it turns out well!


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## drsmurto

Here is the beersmith file. Glad to hear people are enjoying this beer.

View attachment DrSmurtos_golden_ale.bsm


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## SJW

That is a great recipe, as I have made it. One of the best. I only made it to 26 IBU's and thought it was still way over hopped for a JSGA Clone. They must only use a very small about of hops.

Steve


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## SJW

Also dude your link does not work


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## drsmurto

Seems to be working for me mate, not sure whats happening for you.

p.s. it is much more flavoursome and bitter than JSGA but i find JSGA to be a tad bland.


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## mossyrocks

Link worked for me.


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## jojai

Yeah file downloads for me too. But I don't have the program so I don't know if it works. 

I just finally put this into my fermenter... Original gravity of only 1024, so even if it ferments to 1000, it'll only be 3.1% alcohol. Not that I care about the alcohol, but my system must suck! 

Should I add a can of liquid malt? So pissed of right now


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## Back Yard Brewer

DrSmurto said:


> Seems to be working for me mate, not sure whats happening for you.
> 
> p.s. it is much more flavoursome and bitter than JSGA but i find JSGA to be a tad bland.




Its funny you should say that, JSGA tastes a little bland. It is still one of my favourite beers, but after trying my own APA I find JSGA a little thin tasting. The aroma though is still nice.


BYB


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## Screwtop

jojai said:


> Yeah file downloads for me too. But I don't have the program so I don't know if it works.
> 
> I just finally put this into my fermenter... Original gravity of only 1024, so even if it ferments to 1000, it'll only be 3.1% alcohol. Not that I care about the alcohol, but my system must suck!
> 
> Should I add a can of liquid malt? So pissed of right now



jojai,

What was the temp of your strike water (the water you added to your grain)?

Screwy


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## glennheinzel

I wish that this thread would drop out of the "All latest threads". I've got enough to brew without being reminded that I haven't brewed this recipe yet!

Edit - Damn! Adding this post just sent this topic to the top of the "All latest threads" box.


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## SJW

> p.s. it is much more flavoursome and bitter than JSGA but i find JSGA to be a tad bland.



True, I think it's a little over rated myself. JSGA that is!


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## drsmurto

Had a few pints of JSGA last night and was wondering how they manage to make it more bland each time i drink it. Do they have a special in-line flavour remover on the way to the tap? Like a reverse randall?


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## KHB

Thats funny, i used to love it but since making my own APAs find it not so nice


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## SJW

Yes, very few commercial brew float my boat these days, other than the big european names.


Steve


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## jojai

Hey Screwtop, my strike water (as in the water in the mash tun?) sat between 66-70C 

The 70 occured mainly at the start of the mash, but also I had a temperature variance of around 4C for most of the mash in different parts of the tun. I then upped the average temperature to 78 for the mash out, but again, the temperature variance was around 4C... 

I think the problem was in an attempt to lower sediment I didn't sparge too vigorously so I bet a lot of sugar was left on the grain, which explains why my cat was eating it when it spilled on the floor. (He also ate a hop pellet... weird cat).


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## Screwtop

jojai said:


> Hey Screwtop, my strike water (as in the water in the mash tun?) sat between 66-70C
> 
> I think the problem was in an attempt to lower sediment I didn't sparge too vigorously so I bet a lot of sugar was left on the grain, which explains why my cat was eating it when it spilled on the floor. (He also ate a hop pellet... weird cat).



What was your total brewing water, all water added to the grain for strike and sparge etc. And what weight of milled grain did you have ?



jojai said:


> which explains why my cat was eating it when it spilled on the floor. (He also ate a hop pellet... weird cat).



Lucky it wasn't your dog, hops can kill them!!


Cheers,

Screwy


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## Fents

Bump. 

Making this sunday. Looks delish. Only Ale that had heaps of votes in the RecipeDB.

Biggups Doc S.


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## Adamt

Thanks to me it's now the most rated recipe in the DB! Go me!

Had Smurto's version and domonsura's version... both tasty as


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## braufrau

Adamt said:


> Thanks to me it's now the most rated recipe in the DB! Go me!



You go boy!


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## Stuster

Adamt said:


> Thanks to me it's now the most rated recipe in the DB! Go me!



Mods, please retitle this thread Adamt's Golden Ale.  :lol:




Edited for clarity.


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## drsmurto

And i believe it is now available to buy as a pre-packaged AG from a reputable Adelaide supplier....... :beerbang:


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## braufrau

DrSmurto said:


> And i believe it is now available to buy as a pre-packaged AG from a reputable Adelaide supplier....... :beerbang:




Really? How cool!


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## Stuster

Yeh, congratulations, Dr Smurto. Fame at last.


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## captaincleanoff

this recipe really is great, I've done a few 50l batches now!

Anyone used Cascade instead of Amarillo? I've got a batch fermenting, and need to add more hops into secondary today. Only have Cascade on stock at the moment so might try using this. Anyone else had a go?


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## trevc

Looking to already brew a second batch of this, as I can tell it will not last long!

I'm looking for suggestions on ways to up the maltyness, while still maintaining it's easy-drinking appeal. I was thinking of replacing a bit more of the wheat with pilsner, and slightly upping the munich 1. Any ideas?

Input is always appreciated.

Cheers


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## paulwin

hi try wyeast 1332 northwest ale
cheers paul


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## trevc

Thanks. I didn't even think of changing the yeast. 

I was pretty impressed with what the s05 did, I had never used it before.

Wouldn't using the 1332 significantly change the flavour profile? I'm only looking to slightly boost the smurto maltyness.


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## Stuster

I think that's a good idea of Paul's. Several other yeasts would also work and will give a different balance between malt and hops than US-05 which tends to accentuate the hops and cut back the malt in my experience. Can you get Wyeast or White Labs up there? It's amazing the difference the yeast makes though and part of your brewing education to brew this beer again, possibly several times, but all for research of course.


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## gibbocore

i've brewed a similar golden ale a fair bit and i'm also after a diff yeast, i'd like a high att english yeat i think as JSquire claims it to be based on an summer ale style which i thought was english, or is it just a new catch phrase?
I haven't used nottingham before, i hear it is quite malty?


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## snagler

This is one of my favourites, everyone loves it. I have not felt the need to fiddle with the recipe as yet but today I throw a cube of Dr Smurtos golden ale(?) onto a yeast cake of S-189. Mainly through shear laziness.

Ill see how it goes and report what I come up with


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## gibbocore

sorry, i should have stated also, that i've loved the results from it, but i use that yeast for everything and i would like to try something else, simply for a change.


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## trevc

1332 sounds good, any idea what brewery it originated from? 

I'd also like to bring the ABV to about 5.5-5.8% ish. Kind of goes against the whole summer ale thing, but might be interesting having the Amarillo plus a bit more alcohol kick.

Would a bit more of the munich 1 be a good choice?


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## gibbocore

also, i saw a thing about it on TV with one ofteh malt shovel guys, he stated it to be a bit of a lager/ale hybrid in that the ale strain they use is fermented clean and at low temps. More food for thought.


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## drsmurto

I have some 1272 (american ale II) for my next batch. Never thought of playing around with english yeasts in this beer, not sure why i hadnt. 

I hit 5% on my last attempt and its still a pretty easy drinker. Upping the munich would be my tip but then i struggle not to put munich in every beer i make these days!


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## trevc

If I increased the munich to a level which brought the ABV to 5.5% ish, do you think that would be overkill? More malty would be good, but I don't want to completely destroy the very drinkable nature of this brew.


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## drsmurto

You could either just increase the whole amount of grain to keep the % the same or up the munich by itself. 

Can you overdo munich? Brewing a munich dunkel on Saturday with >95% munich so i suspect not


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## trevc

Might try upping only the munich. Could be interesting.


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## Stuster

I think go for the Munich. First because it's a nice malt (especially the German stuff). And more importantly because it sounds like you really want to. What better reason.  

Be interested in how you like the 1272, Dr S. I really like that yeast myself. Works well in a number of styles, APA especially. :chug:


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## NickB

Just pitched some US-05 onto a cube of this that's been sitting and waiting for a few weeks.

Can't wait to try it!

Cheers


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## drsmurto

Stuster said:


> I think go for the Munich. First because it's a nice malt (especially the German stuff). And more importantly because it sounds like you really want to. What better reason.
> 
> Be interested in how you like the 1272, Dr S. I really like that yeast myself. Works well in a number of styles, APA especially. :chug:




I've had 3 vials of 1272 sitting in my fridge for months that BenH gave me. Up until very recently i thought they were 1275 :huh: (bens handwriting is fine, its my eyes that clearly need some work)

What better excuse to open another packet of amarillo..... or cascade.... or...or...or


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## Crusty

Dr Smurto,
This recipe rocks. I did this one as my first ever AG & hit 78% efficiency. OG came in at 1.048 & final gravity at 1.012. Primary for 7 days, secondary for 7 days with 15gm Amarillo pellets.
Awesome flavoured beer. I bought a six pack of JSGA last weekend & realised how bad the commercial beers are, I managed to down one & left it at that. Thin, bland & boring compared to mine, & thats out of the fermenter.
This is being kegged tonight & I can't wait to pour my first glass.
Cheers,
Crusty


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## trevc

Let us know when you give it a taste... mine should be carbed up by next weekend.


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## Crusty

Will do Trev,
I filtered it this morning to the keg & have it chilling till tomorrow morning. I am going to force carb this one tomorrow at 230kpa for a full 48 hours. This will be around 2.6 volumes co2. 
Cheers,
Crusty


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## Crusty

Ok,
Getting too keen to try this one. I have changed my attack back to the original plan & have adjusted the regulator to 90kpa & will leave it for 7 days & will test then.
Cheers,
Crusty


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## Henno

I really want to make this beer. Am organising the amarillo at the moment but have no weyermann pilsener on hand and am not buying grain for a while. How important is this grain to this recipe? I have loads of BB pale lying around.


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## drsmurto

Henno said:


> I really want to make this beer. Am organising the amarillo at the moment but have no weyermann pilsener on hand and am not buying grain for a while. How important is this grain to this recipe? I have loads of BB pale lying around.



The one i have on tap atm is JW ale and JW caramalt instead of the wey pils and wey caramunich. Not quite as nice but still a tasty bloody drop IIDSSM :icon_drunk:


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## drsmurto

buttersd70 said:


> Doc, how do you reckon it would go with caraaroma instead of the caramunich? Too heavy?



Be more of an AAA instead of an APA. If you dropped the amount a bit i dont see why it should make it a 'heavier' beer, darker and a touch maltier maybe. Would be interested in the results if you go ahead with it. May need to increase the hop additions slightly, 20g @ 10 and 5 mins.......


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## Mitchell

I plan on putting my first one of these down on Saturday. Some eager punters want to drink it 2 weeks later for the AFL grand final. So the time frame is a little compressed. Probably 7 days in primary, 5 in secondary and forced carbed the last two. 

Just wondering how it will taste being served so soon... should I tweak the recipe at all ... maybe wind the IBUs back a point or two?


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## gibbocore

Should be fine mate, i drink all my beers nearly 2 weeks after ferment has finished, one of the perks of force carbing and filtering. Also, you can force carb in half an hour using the shake and sit method.


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## drsmurto

10 days in primary, 4 days in secondary at 1C, add some polyclar or gelatine and voila. Force carb and be drinkin in 15 mins.


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## Mitchell

Thanks for the advice gents. I'll relax. 

DrSmurto, what's the rational behind the extended primary? 

I'm kinda new at this game but I'd assume this is simply to age it a little more in the short time available? With the cold temp and finings clearing it out asap. So I'm kinda gaining some extra conditioning by rushing the secondary. Am I warm?


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## Back Yard Brewer

Mitchell said:


> I plan on putting my first one of these down on Saturday. Some eager punters want to drink it 2 weeks later for the AFL grand final. So the time frame is a little compressed. Probably 7 days in primary, 5 in secondary and forced carbed the last two.
> 
> Just wondering how it will taste being served so soon... should I tweak the recipe at all ... maybe wind the IBUs back a point or two?




Mine was fermented for 9 racked for 3 with gelatine and then bang, into the keg, chilled and carbed and gone in 3 days!!!  The only adjustment I might make is to cut back on the munich a fraction. I thought there was a little to much malt aroma for my likeing. But still a good beer all the same.

BYB


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## drsmurto

Been a while since i looked at the recipe on here. 

My brewing methodology has evolved since then.

I tend to keep my ales in primary for 14 days and then secondary for a minimum of 14 days at 1C. 

I also dry hop in the keg rather than in secondary.

The 'rationale' behind the extended primary is to allow the yeast to finish their housekeeping. ie. clean up the by products they excrete during fermentation. Its much easier (and cleaner IMO) to achieve this when the yeast cake is still there ie. higher yeast concentration.

The fermentation is done and dusted in 5-7 days at 18C with US-05, sometimes quicker. SO if you are pushed for time you can shorten this. I just find it gives me a cleaner beer.


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## trevc

I have a few batches of this in the queue, all with subtle changes. The one in the fermenter now started at 1.045, is now at 1.007, and still looking fairly active. I'm proud of my little yeasties and all, but how low will they go? Airlock is still bubbling away, it visually looks like stuff is going on. The sample I took today tasted fantastic, drank the whole hydrometer. It's US05.

My recipe was close to the AHB db one, except there's 200g dex in the boil to dry it out a bit further. I'm aiming to give this one more mainstream appeal, as I'm slowly brining even my die-hard VB mates over to the world of good beer. My other batch is the opposite, and also higher IBU's


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## drsmurto

My last batch was 1.048 down to 1.009 with US05.

Using dex you would expect it to go a few points lower.

The bubbling airlock may just be CO2 coming out of solution. It may be pretty much done and dusted. 

Yep, even TED drinkers dont seem to mind this. A subtle APA seems to be a good transition beer before you hit them with a hopburst.....


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## achy02

This looks like it is going to be my first AG attempt. I enjoy JSGA and this recipe seems the goods but I have a quick question that I may have overlooked in my reading. How much water is added to the mash tun for mash in, and how much is used for sparging? I imagine this would effect the quality of the wort, I am sure it has probably been mentioned but..................


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## drsmurto

Get yourself a copy of beersmith. Its free for 30 days but worth every cent IMO. 

It does take a bit of trial and error to get your volumes right due to boil off %, losses in the kettle etc but you should get close for the first go. 

Download the beersmith recipe file here - Link

That is set up for my system but should give you an idea.


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## trevc

So, mine finished at 1.004 here (from 1.044), bringing things to 5.2%abv and *90% attenuation!*.. It tastes pretty good, but very much like a mass-produced brew. The alcohol seems a bit more evident, as well as the bittering hops. Luckily it's still balanced enough for a stronger session beer.


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## drsmurto

90%

What was your mash temp? Thats one very fermentable wort and a hungry yeast!


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## trevc

Definitely. Mashed at 66C.


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## Mitternacht Brauer

Hi DrSmurto,
I have a quick question . I did two double batches of the your golden ale Saturday two weeks ago. Sg on the first was 1050 great, but the second was low at 1032 .The first double went between the father inlaw and the brother inlaw . I fermented out half the second and cubed the second half . My question is could or should I add Something to bring up the sg when I drop the cube onto the yeast cake of my first half? I used wyeast 1056.


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## drsmurto

buster3931 said:


> Hi DrSmurto,
> I have a quick question . I did two double batches of the your golden ale Saturday two weeks ago. Sg on the first was 1050 great, but the second was low at 1032 .The first double went between the father inlaw and the brother inlaw . I fermented out half the second and cubed the second half . My question is could or should I add Something to bring up the sg when I drop the cube onto the yeast cake of my first half? I used wyeast 1056.



1.032 will be very thin and watery so you will need to add some extract tp up the gravity. I have gotten away with as low as 1.044 but i wouldnt go any lower than that. Use beersmith to figure out how much extract to add to reach your target gravity.


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## drsmurto

Just a quick note to say this beer scored 46/50 at ANAWBS.

1st place in UK 1 (English Pale Ale section) 
It also scored Best Beer of Show

not too shabby.......

Batch # 6 is bubbling away in my fermentation fridge now.


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## Fourstar

Great work for a great beer DrSmurto!


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## Adamt

Humility is overrated!


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## Stuster

DrSmurto said:


> 1st place in UK 1 (English Pale Ale section)



Doesn't look quite like an English Pale Ale to me. I'd have put it down as a straightforward (and very tasty looking) APA. Which one does it taste like though? :unsure:


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## gibbocore

Its supposed to be a UK summer ale (as per JS). I've been meaning to make this with some WYeast ESB.


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## Back Yard Brewer

Stuster said:


> Doesn't look quite like an English Pale Ale to me. I'd have put it down as a straightforward (and very tasty looking) APA. Which one does it taste like though? :unsure:




My thoughts exactly :wacko: If this is the case what does that say about the judging  

BYB


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## mika

Judges aren't told what the beer was made with, it's down to how it's interpreted as a 'style'. Too my mind it wouldn't have enough forward hop character to make it as an APA, as an english pale it's about right and the hops (According to the AABC and BJCP guidelines) fit right as well.


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## Stuster

I wasn't trying to suggest there was anything wrong with the judges at all. Just a judging geek's question.  

You might be right, mika. It doesn't seem to have quite the malt profile there (I guess it depends on what style it was in that category), and the yeast is too clean really. But that's just how it looks from the recipe and it might not be how it tasted - which is why I was asking.


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## Batz

I've made this beer more than once an it's a cracker,English Pale Ale, well I would not classify it as such.
Whatever it did well in the competition,and well worth a shot at brewing.

Batz


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## Back Yard Brewer

Stuster said:


> It doesn't seem to have quite the malt profile there (I guess it depends on what style it was in that category)




Actually that is an interesting point. Having made the Smurto Ale I thought it was a little more malt driven than what I would have expected, after tasting my version. But all that being said the beer is most definitely Amarillo driven with flavour and aroma. So the point on interpretation when judging is a valid point. 

BYB


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## kabooby

You would also think that American hops would be out of style.

Anyway, congratulations Smurto on the award. 46 points is a great effort

Kabooby


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## trevc

Yeah, this stuff is a crowd pleaser. I only bottle it in 1.5L PET, anything else is too small for the boozers that come to visit. No reason to have so many tiny bottles sitting around.


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## drsmurto

I actually entered it into SABSOSA as an APA.

Comments were "lacking the hop character for the style", "crisp, clean flavours but very subtle, particularly with the hops", "very drinkable and very clean".

So taking that on board and also noting that JSGA (which i took as my "inspiration" for the recipe) is an english style summer ale (says so on the label) I entered it as and an english pale ale.

As Mika pointed out, US hops are allowed (according to both the BJCP guidelines and the info provided by ANAWBS). The flavour and aroma hops are only 0.75g/L so definitely not APA territory. 

Subbing in ~20% of the ale malt with munich gives it a maltier backbone that i wouldnt use in my APAs.


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## Stuster

Fair enough, good doctor. I guess being a style nazi for one last minute, that English summer ales can also be entered as blonde ales, but that's in the BJCP ones not in ANAWBS.

Anyway, not meaning to take anything away from you. Well done, Dr S. It must have been a great beer to get such a good score. :super: :beerbang: 

All the positive feedback makes me want to break my rule and brew somebody else's recipe with fiddling with it.


----------



## Batz

I'll stick my head out here as usual.

If it suits the judges tastes your on a winner,and this brew does suit most tastes.

Well done Dr

Batz


----------



## drsmurto

Stuster said:


> Fair enough, good doctor. I guess being a style nazi for one last minute, that English summer ales can also be entered as blonde ales, but that's in the BJCP ones not in ANAWBS.
> 
> Anyway, not meaning to take anything away from you. Well done, Dr S. It must have been a great beer to get such a good score. :super: :beerbang:
> 
> All the positive feedback makes me want to break my rule and brew somebody else's recipe with fiddling with it.



Dont you dare Stuster!  

Fiddle away. I have brewed a few of Warrens recipe but dont follow them to the letter. 

I take the idea/concept and then tweak it to my tastes. 

'Tis the joy of brewing!


----------



## Tony

Having made a beer or 2 very similar to The Dr's Golden ale, i also question its likeness to an english pale ale. Amarillo is citrus and passionfruit driven. A bit of caramalt is not going to give the nutty caramel character of said beer style, of the floral hops.

Ahhh but who cares Umpires call stands firm right  Can the judges stand up and draw a square in the air if they were snoozing of perving on the preety girls in the members stand 

Im planning something very similar for my next beer. I ordered NZ Styrian goldings flowers a while back and got Amarillo pellets. Gotts do something with them

Who ordered amarillo and got Styrians?

cheers


----------



## Adamt

ANAWBS Style Guidelines for special/best/premium bitter:

Aroma: The best examples have some malt aroma, often (but not always) with a caramel quality. Mild to
moderate fruitiness. Hop aroma can range from moderate to none (UK varieties typically, a*lthough US
varieties may be used*). Generally no diacetyl, although very low levels are allowed.

Appearance: Medium gold to medium copper. Good to brilliant clarity. Low to moderate white to offwhite
head. May have very little head due to low carbonation.

Flavor: Medium to high bitterness. Most have moderately low to moderately high fruity esters. Moderate to
low hop flavor (earthy, resiny, and/or floral UK varieties typically, *although US varieties may be used*). Low
to medium maltiness with a dry finish. Caramel flavors are common but not required. Balance is often
decidedly bitter, although the bitterness should not completely overpower the malt flavor, esters and hop
flavor. Generally no diacetyl, although very low levels are allowed.

Mouthfeel: Medium-light to medium body. Carbonation low, although bottled and canned commercial
examples can have moderate carbonation.

Overall Impression: A flavorful, yet refreshing, session beer. Some examples can be more malt balanced,
but this should not override the overall bitter impression. Drinkability is a critical component of the style;
emphasis is still on the bittering hop addition as opposed to the aggressive middle and late hopping seen in
American ales.
------

When I tried it on judging day, it came across to me as florally/resiny more than citrus. Either way, it was YUMMY!


----------



## Stubbie

> Fiddle away



I fiddled with earlier in the year. Dropped the caramel and instead of Amarillo bittered with Horizon and used NS for the late hop additions. 'Twas a cracker.
The latest has been brewed to spec. For some reason, the US-05 is proving a bit slow to drop out this time round........


----------



## ~MikE

6 pages, this beer has a bit of a fan base...

Mike's DrSmurto's Golden Ale

2.40 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (3.9 EBC) Grain 56.5 % 
0.80 kg Munich Malt - 10L (19.7 EBC) Grain 18.8 % 
0.80 kg Wheat Malt, Bel (3.9 EBC) Grain 18.8 % 
0.25 kg BB Crystal Malt - Grain 5.9 % 
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (50 min) Hops 20.0 IBU 
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (5 min) Hops 4.2 IBU 
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (0 min) Hops - 
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 

Pitched with WY1332 - Brewed at "Sexy Beer" Temperatures - not by choice tho 

i only had BB Crystal at the time (10kg thereof ), i like Amarillo waay too much to only use 15g additions and the adjusted boil times were to try and compensate for 'no-chill' in the kettle complete with hops 

very fruity, a bit of a bite from being very young, should mellow out over the next week or so. just gassed and poured today so hopefully time will clean it up a little and hopefully it'll still be around by then. despite brewing between 22-26C this beer still rocks (then again, for me, no estery goodness = yawn)


----------



## trevc

Made another batch, drank another batch. They sure don't last long with mates around. My latest had 45g Amarillo dry-hopped, there was also dex added to the boil for a very low finishing gravity. Stronger aroma and hop flavour. Enjoyed by all!


----------



## glennheinzel

Has anyone made this with No Chill? I'm just wondering if anyone has altered the hopping schedule to take account of NC (I'm aware that there is a separate thread on NC bitterness) 

FYI - I recently made it (with NC) and found the bitterness to be a bit overpowering.


----------



## balconybrewer

hi rukh,

i have had similar experiences with the bitterness of NC and have just put the following down, i am trying cube hopping for the aroma and less bittering than the last one i completed, my last batch was around 32IBU so will do a side by side once this one is finished. im hoping for more aroma, flavour and less bitterness.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 31.41 L
Estimated OG: 1.049 SG
Estimated Color: 19.9 EBC
Estimated IBU: 28.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
2.50 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.Grain 51.55 % 
1.00 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (22.0 EBC) Grain 20.62 % 
0.80 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (3.5 EBGrain 16.49 % 
0.35 kg Caramunich II (Weyermann) (124.1 EBC) Grain 7.22 % 
0.20 kg Carahell (Weyermann) (25.0 EBC) Grain 4.12 % 
14.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops - 
10.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 9.1 IBU 
15.00 gm Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 13.6 IBU 
16.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (12 min) Hops 6.1 IBU 
16.00 gm Amarillo Gold cube hop [8.50 %] (0 min) Hops - 
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs SafAle US05 (DCL Yeast #US-05) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: 2 Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 4.85 kg
----------------------------
2 Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
60 min Mash In Add 11.49 L of water at 73.6 C 66.2 C


----------



## drsmurto

~MikE said:


> Pitched with WY1332 - Brewed at "Sexy Beer" Temperatures - not by choice tho
> 
> i only had BB Crystal at the time (10kg thereof ), i like Amarillo waay too much to only use 15g additions and the adjusted boil times were to try and compensate for 'no-chill' in the kettle complete with hops
> 
> very fruity, a bit of a bite from being very young, should mellow out over the next week or so. just gassed and poured today so hopefully time will clean it up a little and hopefully it'll still be around by then. despite brewing between 22-26C this beer still rocks (then again, for me, no estery goodness = yawn)



I quite regularly ferment at 20-22C to try and force the yeast into ester production, more so when using a good english ale yeast but also with US05. 




trevc said:


> Made another batch, drank another batch. They sure don't last long with mates around. My latest had 45g Amarillo dry-hopped, there was also dex added to the boil for a very low finishing gravity. Stronger aroma and hop flavour. Enjoyed by all!



45g dry hop. The aroma would have climbed out of the glass and slapped you across the face.

I like it!

Have another batch ccing now. WIll be dry hopping this one as its being kegged (i dont dry hop if being bottled - prob the reason why the bottled version is more english than the kegged version.....


----------



## trevc

> 45g dry hop. The aroma would have climbed out of the glass and slapped you across the face.



Note nearly as much as I figured it would. The beer was a bit grassy at first, then smoothed out perfectly after 3 weeks total in the bottle.


----------



## Tony

I have some fresh 1272 American ale 2 in the fridge waiting for something to chew on............ might give this a go with Pils and some caramalt, low mash temp for a summer quaffer.

What else is one to do with a heap of amarillo?

I never brew other peoples recipes for some reason but this one seems proven enough to me. Too many bad experiences with Net and book based recipes.

cheers


----------



## KHB

I brewed this a few months back changed the bittering hops to northern brewer and didnt dry hopp, still drinking it and really enjoying it , next time i might hit it with a handfull at flame out


----------



## sama

Tony said:


> What else is one to do with a heap of amarillo?



stick it in little bags in ya sock and undie drawer for pleasant aroma B)


----------



## kram

Tony said:


> I have some fresh 1272 American ale 2 in the fridge waiting for something to chew on............ might give this a go with Pils and some caramalt, low mash temp for a summer quaffer.
> 
> What else is one to do with a heap of amarillo?
> 
> I never brew other peoples recipes for some reason but this one seems proven enough to me. Too many bad experiences with Net and book based recipes.
> 
> cheers


1272 + Amarillo work well together.

I recently did a batch that got a bit higher in temp (21/22) and I really didn't need to dry hop with the fruity aroma I got from the 1272!


----------



## dicko

Rukh said:


> Has anyone made this with No Chill? I'm just wondering if anyone has altered the hopping schedule to take account of NC (I'm aware that there is a separate thread on NC bitterness)
> 
> FYI - I recently made it (with NC) and found the bitterness to be a bit overpowering.



Hi Rukh,

I agree that after making it with NC I found the hops a bit over the top.
I have made a note to delete the 10 min addition next time and see how it goes.
All in all a good beer.
The interest in this beer kind of reminds me of the hype that surrounded the Skunk Fart Pale Ale of Jayse's that was around on the Grumpy's forum a few years ago. Aahh! another good beer.

Cheers


----------



## glennheinzel

dicko/ryanmoore184 - Thanks for your feedback. We (I was helping a mate do his first AG) ended up going with ~MikE's hop schedule as we felt that it took account of the extra utilisation in the NC cube. We should have the results in a few weeks time.

20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.30%] (50 min) Hops 
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.30%] (5 min) Hops 
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.30%] (0 min) Hops
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.30%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops


----------



## domonsura

Guys, the reason IMHO that you are experiencing more bitterness than you would like when no chilling, is that as you aren't 'finishing' the boil with a definite cool down of the wort to ferment temperatures,your flavour and aroma hops additions are becoming bittering additions because the bitterness extraction will continue until the wort cools down enough. That is, when you throw them in at 'five minutes left in the boil', the fact is that the five minutes isn't up until the wort is below the temperature that the bitterness will be extracted from the hops......just as in the same way a 90 minute boil /hop addition would result in a higher level of bitterness perhaps. 
You'd have to take that into account and perhaps do some research into what 'relative' levels of bitterness, flavour and aroma, or to be more precise what exactly is extracted from the hops at whatever temperatures, when cooling slowly at ambient temperatures. I reckon you might find that hop additions when the wort reaches a lower temperature would result in a softer extraction of flavours and aromas, yet not add to the bittering.


----------



## reviled

Put down a version of this in the weekend...

2kg Bohemian Pilsner
1kg Golden Promise
800g Wheat
800g Munich
250g CaraMunich II

60 : 20g Amarillo
10 : 15g Amarillo
5 : 15g Amarillo

And ill dry hop it with 15g Amarillo B) 

Pitched US-05, and its bubbling away nicely! Planning on kegging this for my bday drinks :beerbang:


----------



## Effect

Going to put down this recipe tommorrow. It's my second AG and will have to no-chill as I have already got a brew fermenting in my fridge.

Just crushed the grain - with the help of my girlfriend - couldn't do it all by myself since the marga mill isn't really set up yet. It's sitting on two pieces of ply with some sticky tape to hold it in place (very effective  ) and needs the help of someone to hold it down in place whilst the other cranks it - we both took it in turns.

Am thinking of moving all the hop additions 10 mins later for because of the no-chill factor.

So 20 g Amarillo (Pellets, 8.9 AA%, 50 mins) 
15 g Amarillo (Pellets, 8.9 AA%, 0 mins) 
15 g Amarillo (Pellets, 8.9 AA%, No chill) 
15 g Amarillo (Pellets, 8.9 AA%, Secondary)

How does that sound???


----------



## Back Yard Brewer

Phillip said:


> Just crushed the grain - with the help of my girlfriend - couldn't do it all by myself since the marga mill isn't really set up yet. It's sitting on two pieces of ply with some sticky tape to hold it in place (very effective  ) and needs the help of someone to hold it down in place whilst the other cranks it - we both took it in turns.
> 
> How does that sound???




Sounds like a great relationship  My wife is still learning as well.

BYB


----------



## drsmurto

Phillip said:


> Going to put down this recipe tommorrow. It's my second AG and will have to no-chill as I have already got a brew fermenting in my fridge.
> 
> Just crushed the grain - with the help of my girlfriend - couldn't do it all by myself since the marga mill isn't really set up yet. It's sitting on two pieces of ply with some sticky tape to hold it in place (very effective  ) and needs the help of someone to hold it down in place whilst the other cranks it - we both took it in turns.
> 
> Am thinking of moving all the hop additions 10 mins later for because of the no-chill factor.
> 
> So 20 g Amarillo (Pellets, 8.9 AA%, 50 mins)
> 15 g Amarillo (Pellets, 8.9 AA%, 0 mins)
> 15 g Amarillo (Pellets, 8.9 AA%, No chill)
> 15 g Amarillo (Pellets, 8.9 AA%, Secondary)
> 
> How does that sound???



What brew is in your fridge? Ale or lager? Adelaide temps over the next 3-4 days are low 20s so if its ale you may be able to take it out and put it somewhere in the house. I brewed my case swap beer (english ale) in my spare bedroom, stayed at 20C the whole time. that way you can no-chill this batch faster and not worry so much about adjusting the hop schedule.

20C and wyeast 1469 :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2:


----------



## SJW

I kegged my version of this brew last week. WOW, The amarillo is huge. Thanks for the inspiration Dr.

75 APA 
American Pale Ale 


Type: All Grain
Date: 1/11/2008 
Batch Size: 26.00 L
Brewer: Stephen Wright 
Boil Size: 31.86 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 75 min Equipment: My Gear 
Taste Rating(out of 50): 0.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 
Taste Notes: 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4000.00 gm Pale Malt, Ale (Barrett Burston) (5.9 EBC) Grain 72.46 % 
1000.00 gm Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) Grain 18.12 % 
500.00 gm Wheat Malt, Dark (Weyermann) (13.8 EBC) Grain 9.06 % 
20.00 gm Chocolate Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (1000.8 EBC) Grain 0.36 % 
25.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (Dry Hop 5 days) Hops - 
25.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 20.3 IBU 
25.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (15 min) Hops 10.1 IBU 
30.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (5 min) Hops 4.9 IBU 
25.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (1 min) Hops 0.9 IBU 
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1.00 tsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs German Ale (Wyeast Labs #1007) Yeast-Ale 



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.050 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.050 SG 
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.012 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.98 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.95 % 
Bitterness: 36.2 IBU Calories: 468 cal/l 
Est Color: 15.2 EBC Color: Color 


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body Total Grain Weight: 5520.00 gm 
Sparge Water: 12.39 L Grain Temperature: 20.0 C 
Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C TunTemperature: 20.0 C 
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH 

Single Infusion, Medium Body Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
60 min Mash In Add 15.00 L of water at 71.3 C 65.0 C 
10 min Mash Out Add 10.00 L of water at 94.8 C 76.0 C


----------



## drsmurto

1007. Very keen to hear how this goes. Sounds like a very versatile yeast.

Thats a lot more amarillo than i normally use but then at 36 IBU you are certainly heading towards APA territory rather than the best bitter i like to think this beer is (when 30 IBU or less) h34r:


----------



## Effect

I've got a hefe weizen in the fridge at the moment...

I think I would rather let it stay put though.

Anyways, no matter what hop schedule I use (to an extent) this is going to taste great!


----------



## SJW

> 1007. Very keen to hear how this goes. Sounds like a very versatile yeast.
> 
> Thats a lot more amarillo than i normally use but then at 36 IBU you are certainly heading towards APA territory rather than the best bitter i like to think this beer is (when 30 IBU or less)


1007 is great. The first couple I did I was cloning the JSGA and it did not start to taste close until I dropped the hops down to 12 or 15 IBU's. Either way its a good drop.

Steve


----------



## bigholty

I jumped on the bandwagon last night too (wasn't much room on there......... :icon_cheers: ) I adhered very closely to the original recipe, my only deviations were that I used 'II' instead of 'I' on the Munich, my bittering addition was Northern Brewer instead of Amarillo, and I added 250g of honey (I have a kilo tub that has crystallised and I want to use it up, otherwise I probably wouldn't have bothered - I don't think it will hurt). Everything else was exactly as per the RecipeDB. Looking forward to keggin' up in a few weeks!!


----------



## Katherine

We brewed this on the weekend want to see what all the fuss is about! Though I am a Amarillo fan so it was a easy choice plus I have 1 kilo of the stuff. The only difference is we have not dry hopped it! 

Looking forward to trying it in two weeks if we can wait that long....


----------



## buttersd70

Muckey did this as his first brew the other week, followed the recipe to the absolute letter to establish a baseline.....

I'm not a huge fan of american anything (I'm not quite as bad as Tony, but getting there  ). I gotta say, though....I got a big slap on the wrist for drinking from the test sample 5 days into fermentation. :lol: 

As far as extra bitterness due to NC? Well, Muckey no chilled his....and I hate beer thats too bitter. The recipe as it stands is right at the very upper limits of my personal taste preferences as far as bittering is concerned, but tasting the sample (which was within a hairs breadth of FG), it seemed very, very well balanced to me, definately not too bitter....so I would have to say to those thinking of shortening the hop schedule if they are going to NC, to at least do the first one as-is. If I don't find the NC version too bitter, I highly doubt you will. I have a _major _sweet tooth.


----------



## Effect

buttersd70 said:


> Muckey did this as his first brew the other week, followed the recipe to the absolute letter to establish a baseline.....
> 
> I'm not a huge fan of american anything (I'm not quite as bad as Tony, but getting there  ). I gotta say, though....I got a big slap on the wrist for drinking from the test sample 5 days into fermentation. :lol:
> 
> As far as extra bitterness due to NC? Well, Muckey no chilled his....and I hate beer thats too bitter. The recipe as it stands is right at the very upper limits of my personal taste preferences as far as bittering is concerned, but tasting the sample (which was within a hairs breadth of FG), it seemed very, very well balanced to me, definately not too bitter....so I would have to say to those thinking of shortening the hop schedule if they are going to NC, to at least do the first one as-is. If I don't find the NC version too bitter, I highly doubt you will. I have a _major _sweet tooth.



bit too late for me. Got some NCing right now. Did 20g Amarillo at 60min, 15g Amarillo at 10 min and 15g Amarillo in the cube. Will also be doing 15g in secondary.

I have a counterflow chiller, just haven't used it yet.

I think that this is going to be the beer that I do the no chill vs chill comparison with.


----------



## Katherine

:icon_offtopic: NC took me quite awhile to work that one out...

Shouldnt acronyms be more then 2 single letters....?


----------



## buttersd70

Phillip said:


> bit too late for me. Got some NCing right now. Did 20g Amarillo at 60min, 15g Amarillo at 10 min and 15g Amarillo in the cube. Will also be doing 15g in secondary.
> 
> I have a counterflow chiller, just haven't used it yet.
> 
> I think that this is going to be the beer that I do the no chill vs chill comparison with.



slightly OT, but I think thats a _brilliant _idea....a well proven, well balanced recipe for a direct comparison.


----------



## stueywhytcross

Any ideas how this beer(or for that means any APA) will turn out using and English Ale yeast, aka s-04??? (its all i have left) I'm guessing slightly maltier??


----------



## sav

Hows it goin ,50Lt batch down on sat got 78.26 into boiler ,just wondering should I keep my dry hop as double as well cause its in 60Lt fermenter I dont want it under style. 
Cheers Dr


----------



## drsmurto

sav said:


> Hows it goin ,50Lt batch down on sat got 78.26 into boiler ,just wondering should I keep my dry hop as double as well cause its in 60Lt fermenter I dont want it under style.
> Cheers Dr



I would.

As for style, lets not go there again.  :icon_drunk:


----------



## buttersd70

DrSmurto said:


> As for style, lets not go there again.  :icon_drunk:



:lol:


----------



## RobB

I had to see what all the fuss was about and cracked my first bottle of this last night. It's a lovely beer with good balance.

Because it's well balanced and the recipe is so simple, it's a good one to tinker with. For example, for my tastes I would use an ale malt instead of pils.

And well done Dr Smurto on the Best of Show.


----------



## Katherine

> had to see what all the fuss was about and cracked my first bottle of this last night. It's a lovely beer with good balance.
> 
> Because it's well balanced and the recipe is so simple, it's a good one to tinker with. For example, for my tastes I would use an ale malt instead of pils.
> 
> And well done Dr Smurto on the Best of Show.



We bottled ours on the weekend.... looking forward to christmas this year... we have no beer ready to drink as yet but will at chrissy time.... and certainly look forward to this one.


----------



## reviled

Malty Cultural said:


> I had to see what all the fuss was about and cracked my first bottle of this last night. It's a lovely beer with good balance.
> 
> Because it's well balanced and the recipe is so simple, it's a good one to tinker with. For example, for my tastes I would use an ale malt instead of pils.
> 
> And well done Dr Smurto on the Best of Show.



I did mine with Golden Promise instead of the Pils which I really enjoyed, and so did a party full of people cos my keg didnt last very long


----------



## Effect

There is about 3 weeks until christmas lunch / dinner for me. I have had this in the primary for 1 week now.

I would like to be able to drink this for christmas / along with my wheat beer. Which means bottling today or tomorrow! - If I do this, I will be skipping the secondary.

Is it going to be necessary to have it in secondary for a week as well? As for the 15 grams of hops in secondary, I want to step them in some boiling water for a few mins, strain and pour into the bottleing bucket (ultra late hopping).

Would this be a quick fix for me now, or would it be better for me to just do it as the recipe says and have the beers all to myself after christmas?


----------



## drsmurto

Phillip said:


> There is about 3 weeks until christmas lunch / dinner for me. I have had this in the primary for 1 week now.
> 
> I would like to be able to drink this for christmas / along with my wheat beer. Which means bottling today or tomorrow! - If I do this, I will be skipping the secondary.
> 
> Is it going to be necessary to have it in secondary for a week as well? As for the 15 grams of hops in secondary, I want to step them in some boiling water for a few mins, strain and pour into the bottleing bucket (ultra late hopping).
> 
> Would this be a quick fix for me now, or would it be better for me to just do it as the recipe says and have the beers all to myself after christmas?



Never tried that but i guess it will work, give it a try and let us know how you get on.

Other alternative is to tip the hop juice into your fermenter and wait a day or 2 and then bottle.

I keep it in secondary more for the dry hopping stage and to get it off the yeast cake.

Racking isnt necessary so you can easily skip this step.


----------



## ~MikE

not sure if this has been done before, but i'm currently drinking a light version of this which i brewed for my parents joint 50th birthday celebrations. 

Smurto LIGHT Golden Ale

1.00 kg Pilsner ---------- 39.2 % 
0.70 kg Munich Malt -----27.5 % 
0.70 kg Wheat Malt ----- 27.5 % 
0.10 kg BBCrystal Malt -- 3.9 % - (i later realised i did actually have caramunich)
0.05 kg Chocolate Malt -- 2.0 % 
15.00 gm Amarillo [8.50%] (40 min) Hops 17.7 IBU 
15.00 gm Amarillo [8.50%] (10 min) Hops 6.4 IBU 
30.00 gm Amarillo [8.50%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops 

WY1332 (didn't have 1056 on a plate and didn't have time to recover from frozen stocks )

the hop regime was compensating for no-chilling

measured OG ~ 1.025
measured FG ~ 1.005
Alc/vol ~ 2.5%
~ 216 calories/L

the verdict, a tiny bit watery (not as much so as other commercial light beers tho), pleasant subtle bitterness and hoppy amarillo-ness. next time i'll push for more crystal malt and possibly some carapils, aim for 3-3.5% and mash a bit warmer to still hit 2.5%. need to get the malt flavours in there but it is certainly far from boring and should go down a treat.


----------



## buttersd70

Mike
Have you considered keeping the OG as is, and jump mashing it? My last jump mash went from 1026 and ended on 1010, using nottingham...I would expect similar-ish results from US05 or similar. One of the issues I've found, even when I manage to drop the attenuation to finish at a reasonable gravity, is a lack of malt flavour....I can get the body there, but the malt flavour is a _lot _more subtle....I got around it by increasing the percentage of munich when compared to the regular mild grainbill on which the jumpmash was based (which was normally 1035og)...upped the munich from 18% to 40ish%, problem solved.


----------



## ~MikE

buttersd70 said:


> Mike
> Have you considered keeping the OG as is, and jump mashing it? My last jump mash went from 1026 and ended on 1010, using nottingham...I would expect similar-ish results from US05 or similar. One of the issues I've found, even when I manage to drop the attenuation to finish at a reasonable gravity, is a lack of malt flavour....I can get the body there, but the malt flavour is a _lot _more subtle....I got around it by increasing the percentage of munich when compared to the regular mild grainbill on which the jumpmash was based (which was normally 1035og)...upped the munich from 18% to 40ish%, problem solved.



1.026 to 1.010 is 2.1% by my beersmith's calculations. i was after somewhere between 2.5-3%. i'd certainly want to finish at around 1010 tho. 

would also make sense to up the munich and possibly even drop some of the wheat. in any case it's still an awesome drop which i'll be brewing at least several times again over summer, so plenty of opportunity for experimentation. will keep posted


----------



## drsmurto

Can you save some for case swap day? Would love to know how a light version of this tastes.

I make a Rogers type beer which is around 3.2% - cascade, amarillo and NS. Plenty of munich but cut the wheat back to 5%


----------



## ~MikE

sure i'll bottle some off before mum n dad's celebrations on saturday


----------



## Katherine

one more week for me.... looking forward to it :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## drsmurto

Carbing mine up tonight in preparation for next weekends case swap.  

One of the reasons i force carb is it requires several samples to get the carbonation spot on.... or at least thats my excuse. :icon_drunk:


----------



## Katherine

I may try one tonight... 5 days in the bottle!


----------



## sav

I brewed mine on sat 47lts and has stopped at 1020 hope I can get a few more,started 1043, us05.Taste great out of fermenter I am letting it go .


----------



## drsmurto

Katie said:


> I may try one tonight... 5 days in the bottle!



5 days of patience - i think you earned a cheeky sampler! :beerbang: 




sav said:


> I brewed mine on sat 47lts and has stopped at 1020 hope I can get a few more,started 1043, us05.Taste great out of fermenter I am letting it go .



1020 is high (what was your mash temp?). I leave mine in primary for 2 weeks these days rather than rushing to rack/bottle/keg it.


----------



## sav

DrSmurto said:


> 5 days of patience - i think you earned a cheeky sampler! :beerbang:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1020 is high (what was your mash temp?). I leave mine in primary for 2 weeks these days rather than rushing to rack/bottle/keg it.



Mashed at 66 got 78.26 into boiler I will leave it for another week then filter


----------



## Damian44

Im brewing the following recipe tomorrow. Ive got i bit of crystal malt id like to use up, but only if it wont be detramental to the finished product. Any input would be appreciated.


3.50 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.0 SRM) Grain 66.04 % 
1.00 kg Munich, Light (Joe White) (9.0 SRM) Grain 18.87 % 
0.50 kg Crystal (Joe White) (72.0 SRM) Grain 9.43 % 
0.30 kg Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.66 % 
10.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 7.6 IBU 
11.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (60 min) Hops 5.4 IBU 
6.00 gm Chinook [11.00 %] (60 min) Hops 5.9 IBU 
22.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (10 min) Hops 6.1 IBU 
23.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (5 min) Hops 3.5 IBU
25.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops - 
1 Pkgs American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) Yeast-Ale 

Est Original Gravity: 1.039 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.010 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 3.79 % 
Bitterness: 28.6 IBU 
Est Color: 10.2 SRM

TYVM


----------



## sav

Dr my golden ale was stuck at 1020 brought it up to 23deg and 8 days later 1005 cant believe it crashed chilled it, added polyclar used my new filter the next day,what a cracker of a drop,house ale for sure ,top job.
love my filter cheers.


----------



## Effect

Has been in the bottle for 6 days now.

Cracked one to give it a go. Tastes very nice, but really shows that my homebrewing has some way to come before I am cranking out great beers - as it was my second beer. It is cloudy still


----------



## raven19

Just put in a grain order for a 50L batch of this beer, as my first AG beer.

Will be making it over the xmas break. Following the recipe to the letter (Assuming HBS has the right grains in stock).

Merry Xmas to all! Beers! :beerbang:


----------



## reviled

Phillip said:


> Has been in the bottle for 6 days now.
> 
> Cracked one to give it a go. Tastes very nice, but really shows that my homebrewing has some way to come before I am cranking out great beers - as it was my second beer. It is cloudy still




Philip, dont let that get you down! I too have issues with cloudy beer (allthough most people would after only 6 days in the bottle) but what you need to remember is that visualness doesnt affect taste, I like my beer, and so do many other people, in fact, others like it so much they look past the haze that I get and come back for more... The only real issue with a hazy beer is that it will put people off before they try it, if it tastes good, then try not to worry about it too much.. B)


----------



## drsmurto

And since this beer has ~20% wheat it takes longer to clear in my experience.

As long as it tastes good then RDWHADSGA :lol:


----------



## blackbock

I jumped onto the bandwagon and brewed this one to see what it is all about, and I have to say that it is the best ALE I have ever brewed. 

My version had Amarillo as an aroma/dry hop, the bittering and flavour additions were subbed with Ahtanhum, The colour is just lovely, and everything else turned out perfectly, except that my FG dropped right down to 1.002. I have never had a brew attenuate that much, still it doesn't affect the end result.

No wonder this is the most highly rated recipe in the DB.

Well done Dr S!


----------



## captaincleanoff

hi guys,
I'm doing this tonight.. however I didn't have quite enough Pilsner left, so substituted with Munich. I know this will affect the taste, but will it still be ok?

The original recipe was:

9.60 kg *Pilsner (3.4 EBC) Grain 56.80 % 
3.20 kg *Munich (18.0 EBC) Grain 18.93 % 
3.20 kg *Wheat (3.4 EBC) Grain 18.93 % 
0.90 kg *Caramunich (90.0 EBC) Grain 5.33 % 
90.00 gm *Amarillo [8.20 %] (60 min) Hops 25.8 IBU 
70.00 gm *Amarillo [8.20 %] (10 min) Hops 7.3 IBU 
55.00 gm *Amarillo [8.20 %] (5 min) Hops 3.1 IBU 
55.00 gm *Amarillo [8.20 %] (0 min) Hops 


changed it to

8.90 kg *Pilsner (3.4 EBC) Grain 56.80 % 
3.90 kg *Munich (18.0 EBC) Grain 18.93 % 
3.20 kg *Wheat (3.4 EBC) Grain 18.93 % 
0.90 kg *Caramunich (90.0 EBC) Grain 5.33 % 
90.00 gm *Amarillo [8.20 %] (60 min) Hops 25.8 IBU 
70.00 gm *Amarillo [8.20 %] (10 min) Hops 7.3 IBU 
55.00 gm *Amarillo [8.20 %] (5 min) Hops 3.1 IBU 
55.00 gm *Amarillo [8.20 %] (0 min) Hops


----------



## muckey

its not a big change and should only have a small effect
personally I think it will be more :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2:


----------



## hazard

captaincleanoff said:


> changed it to
> 
> 8.90 kg *Pilsner (3.4 EBC) Grain 56.80 %
> 3.90 kg *Munich (18.0 EBC) Grain 18.93 %
> 3.20 kg *Wheat (3.4 EBC) Grain 18.93 %
> 0.90 kg *Caramunich (90.0 EBC) Grain 5.33 %
> 90.00 gm *Amarillo [8.20 %] (60 min) Hops 25.8 IBU
> 70.00 gm *Amarillo [8.20 %] (10 min) Hops 7.3 IBU
> 55.00 gm *Amarillo [8.20 %] (5 min) Hops 3.1 IBU
> 55.00 gm *Amarillo [8.20 %] (0 min) Hops


That is a huge amount of amarillo! I made a partial mash golden ale along simialr lines to Dr S, and I used POR for bittering (I believe that JS does too, but I've been wrong before) and used a total of 60g amarillo (20g at 10 min, 5 min and 0 min) for flavour/ aroma. After 2 months in the bottle, my own opinion is that this is too much amarillo and the hops taste is a touch too much, certainly more so than stubbies of JSGA - I think the original Dr S recipe called for 15g additions and I should have listened to someone with much more experience than me. Next time I will use 15g adds. BTW, it is still a little cloudy, I used 30% wheat which is same as the original JSGA.

Hazard


----------



## Katherine

hazard said:


> That is a huge amount of amarillo! I made a partial mash golden ale along simialr lines to Dr S, and I used POR for bittering (I believe that JS does too, but I've been wrong before) and used a total of 60g amarillo (20g at 10 min, 5 min and 0 min) for flavour/ aroma. After 2 months in the bottle, my own opinion is that this is too much amarillo and the hops taste is a touch too much, certainly more so than stubbies of JSGA - I think the original Dr S recipe called for 15g additions and I should have listened to someone with much more experience than me. Next time I will use 15g adds. BTW, it is still a little cloudy, I used 30% wheat which is same as the original JSGA.
> 
> Hazard



JS use Super Alpha for bittering..


----------



## hazard

hazard said:


> That is a huge amount of amarillo!



So, just read your post again (note to self - read first before I reply) - I am now assuming that with this weight of grain that you are looking at a big batch - my batch size was for 23L, what size are you aiming for?

Hazard


----------



## Frank

hazard said:


> So, just read your post again (note to self - read first before I reply) - I am now assuming that with this weight of grain that you are looking at a big batch - my batch size was for 23L, what size are you aiming for?
> Hazard


Follow the thread back to post 1, page 1, and have a look at the recipe link. Original recipe for 20L, yours looks to be for 50L.


----------



## captaincleanoff

hey hazard, yeh this will be about a 70L batch.

Have 1kg of Amarillo at the moment, so have to get through it!


----------



## Frank

captaincleanoff said:


> hey hazard, yeh this will be about a 70L batch.
> 
> Have 1kg of Amarillo at the moment, so have to get through it!


sorry 70-75L not my 50L guess.
Where did you get the recipe from Hazard?


----------



## drsmurto

As a self confessed munich addict i think _more_ munich will only be an improvement :super: 

The IBUs look a little high tho, bring it back to 30 to keep it a quaffer :icon_drunk:


----------



## Katherine

DrSmurto said:


> As a self confessed munich addict i think _more_ munich will only be an improvement :super:
> 
> The IBUs look a little high tho, bring it back to 30 to keep it a quaffer :icon_drunk:



Quaffer alright our 60 or more bottles are gone! Also Dr Smurto I have friends outside AHB that are brewing it now and loving it... B)


----------



## drsmurto

Katie said:


> Quaffer alright our 60 or more bottles are gone! Also Dr Smurto I have friends outside AHB that are brewing it now and loving it... B)



 Fame, albeit virtual, at last!

Never lasts long here either, mates go straight for that tap.


----------



## Katherine

DrSmurto said:


> Fame, albeit virtual, at last!
> 
> Never lasts long here either, mates go straight for that tap.



You have two discussion threads going at the moment... Dr you are famous!

We didnt share ours.... well a little!


----------



## Ross

blackbock said:


> I jumped onto the bandwagon and brewed this one to see what it is all about, and I have to say that it is the best ALE I have ever brewed.
> 
> My version had Amarillo as an aroma/dry hop, the bittering and flavour additions were subbed with Ahtanhum, The colour is just lovely, and everything else turned out perfectly, except that my FG dropped right down to 1.002. I have never had a brew attenuate that much, still it doesn't affect the end result.
> 
> No wonder this is the most highly rated recipe in the DB.
> 
> Well done Dr S!




Hey Blackbock - Enough changes there to call your own recipe & sounds like a good one at that... So get it in the database if you haven't already.

cheers Ross


----------



## technocat

I just racked the Dr's GA into a keg today. I did add 100gr of malanoidin to the grain bill, had a prelim and tastes great. Looking forward to cracking this in three weeks.


----------



## ~MikE

Katie said:


> You have two discussion threads going at the moment... Dr you are famous!
> 
> We didnt share ours.... well a little!



I've met him in person  i tried to look directly at him, but was nearly blinded by the sheer awesomeness! i asked him what burner he uses, he said he doesn't, all he has to do is hold the kettle to his head, close his eyes and imagine fire! 

reminds me, i have to get this on tap again soon. if i try this as a light beer, how would 2:2:1 munichilsner:wheat malt go (with the caramunich in there as well of course)?


----------



## under

Anyone got an extract / grain steep receipe for Dr S. Golden ale?


Sounds bloody nice and I would like to get in on the action!


----------



## buttersd70

under said:


> Anyone got an extract / grain steep receipe for Dr S. Golden ale?
> 
> 
> Sounds bloody nice and I would like to get in on the action!



you could try
Batch Size: 20.00 L 
Boil Size: _*10.00 L*_
Estimated OG: 1.047 SG estimated BG 1.049
Estimated Color: 16.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 31.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 60.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
1.50 kg Pale Liquid Extract (in boil) (15.8 EBC) Extract 46.2 % 
1.50 kg Wheat Liquid Extract (after boil) (15.8 EBCExtract 46.2 % 
0.25 kg Caramalt (Joe White) (49.3 EBC) Grain 7.7 % 
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (60 min) Hops 20.6 IBU 
15.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (15 min) Hops 7.7 IBU 
15.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (5 min) Hops 3.1 IBU 
15.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops - 
1 Pkgs SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #US05) Yeast-Ale


----------



## joecast

~MikE said:


> I've met him in person  i tried to look directly at him, but was nearly blinded by the sheer awesomeness! i asked him what burner he uses, he said he doesn't, all he has to do is hold the kettle to his head, close his eyes and imagine fire!



wow    i heard a phone poll had him voted an SA legend!

to keep slightly on topic: i should get more amarillo


----------



## blackbock

Ross said:


> Hey Blackbock - Enough changes there to call your own recipe & sounds like a good one at that... So get it in the database if you haven't already.



Nah, the Dr might sue me for plagiarism..


----------



## reviled

Katie said:


> I have friends outside AHB that are brewing it now and loving it... B)



There are brewers outside of AHB


----------



## under

buttersd70 said:


> you could try
> Batch Size: 20.00 L
> Boil Size: _*10.00 L*_
> Estimated OG: 1.047 SG estimated BG 1.049
> Estimated Color: 16.8 EBC
> Estimated IBU: 31.3 IBU
> Brewhouse Efficiency: 60.0 %
> Boil Time: 60 Minutes
> 
> Ingredients:
> ------------
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 1.50 kg Pale Liquid Extract (in boil) (15.8 EBC) Extract 46.2 %
> 1.50 kg Wheat Liquid Extract (after boil) (15.8 EBCExtract 46.2 %
> 0.25 kg Caramalt (Joe White) (49.3 EBC) Grain 7.7 %
> 20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (60 min) Hops 20.6 IBU
> 15.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (15 min) Hops 7.7 IBU
> 15.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (5 min) Hops 3.1 IBU
> 15.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
> 1 Pkgs SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #US05) Yeast-Ale



You think that will be close Butters??


----------



## buttersd70

under said:


> You think that will be close Butters??



probably as close as you'll get without doing a mash. Just don't change the boil volume with out compensating for the resultant change in boil gravity.....if you need to, replace the lme with ldme to enable easier changing of volumes.


----------



## under

Ok. So my steps would be as follows.

1. Steep the cracked grain (0.25 kg Caramalt (Joe White) ) in 2 lt of water at 68-70 degrees for 30 min.

2. Strain this into another pot and sparge the grain with enough hot water until you have 10 litres of liquid in your boil pot. Discard the spent grain.

3. Add the 1.50 kg Pale Liquid Extract to the pot and bring to a rolling boil.

4. Follow hop schedule - 

20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (60 min) Hops 20.6 IBU
15.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (15 min) Hops 7.7 IBU 
15.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (5 min) Hops 3.1 IBU 

5. 0 min. Flame out. Add 1.50 kg Wheat Liquid Extract. Dissolve in pot.

6. Let the liquid cool in an ice water bath with the lid on for about 20min or until pitch temp achieved. Strain this liquid into your fermenter and top up with cold water to the 20 litre mark. Pitch yeast.

7. After 7 days fermenting. Rack to secondary and add another 15.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.90%]

8. Leave another few more days. Bottle/Keg as normal.

Sound about right?


----------



## buttersd70

looks good to me.


----------



## under

Nice.

Will do this one next week hopefully. Thanks Butters.


----------



## Katherine

reviled said:


> There are brewers outside of AHB




Yep lots.... they even know about AHB they avoid it!


----------



## drsmurto

under said:


> Ok. So my steps would be as follows.
> 
> 1. Steep the cracked grain (0.25 kg Caramalt (Joe White) ) in 2 lt of water at 68-70 degrees for 30 min.
> 
> 2. *Strain this into another pot and sparge the grain with enough hot water until you have 10 litres of liquid in your boil pot*. Discard the spent grain.
> 
> 3. Add the 1.50 kg Pale Liquid Extract to the pot and bring to a rolling boil.
> 
> 4. Follow hop schedule -
> 
> 20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (60 min) Hops 20.6 IBU
> 15.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (15 min) Hops 7.7 IBU
> 15.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.90%] (5 min) Hops 3.1 IBU
> 
> 5. 0 min. Flame out. Add 1.50 kg Wheat Liquid Extract. Dissolve in pot.
> 
> 6. Let the liquid cool in an ice water bath with the lid on for about 20min or until pitch temp achieved. Strain this liquid into your fermenter and top up with cold water to the 20 litre mark. Pitch yeast.
> 
> 7. After 7 days fermenting. Rack to secondary and add another 15.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.90%]
> 
> 8. Leave another few more days. Bottle/Keg as normal.
> 
> Sound about right?



My 2 c - Not keen on this bit. I wouldnt be sparging the grain with anything more than another litre or 2 and then adding water to the pot to get to 10L. 

(assuming that over sparging crystal grain has the same effect as over sparging a mash - tannin extraction)

The rest looks good.


----------



## under

DrSmurto said:


> My 2 c - Not keen on this bit. I wouldnt be sparging the grain with anything more than another litre or 2 and then adding water to the pot to get to 10L.
> 
> (assuming that over sparging crystal grain has the same effect as over sparging a mash - tannin extraction)
> 
> The rest looks good.




Yeah. After thinking about it your right. Best off to avoid it happening. Another 1-2 litres should be plenty anyways.


----------



## buttersd70

missed that bit.


----------



## brettprevans

heres a few Ga recipes (one is Dr Smurto's non AG recipe)
View attachment James_Squire_Golden_Ale_K_K.doc


they are all fairly similar.


----------



## raven19

My first AG was Dr S's GA, and what a beer!

Even when we oversparged (50L went to 62L) - it still has plenty of flavour. Maybe a little light on the body, but no complaints from me at all.

No chilled, still has great bitterness but not over the top for me at all. Oversparged, but still ended up with 4.4% Alc.

Lovely bitterness, very gnaw-ish! I dare say I shall polish a few of these off tonight.

Mark we need to catch up now, to discuss this baby! Great recipe. Can recommend it to all.

Beers!


----------



## ~MikE

for anyone contemplating using 1469 - don't unless you want to up the munich and caramel/crystal malts. it is still extremely nice, but the chewy english esteryness isn't the best suited for amarillo.


----------



## jeddog

"EDIT 12/10/08
My latest variation used JW trad and JW caramalt instead of Wey Pils and Wey Caramunich. Hops adjusted to 20 min and flame-out. No dry hopping. Scored 46/50 at ANAWBS 2008 and was best beer of show (bottle conditioned for 2 months) "

can you please explain the hop adjustments?


is it adjusting the 15g @ 10min hop addition to 15g @ 20min's and how much at flame out


Regards Jeddog


----------



## gibbocore

~MikE said:


> for anyone contemplating using 1469 - don't unless you want to up the munich and caramel/crystal malts. it is still extremely nice, but the chewy english esteryness isn't the best suited for amarillo.



i've made about 5 batches of this now with the 1469, and i couldn't reccomend it higher, must be a personal taste thing, i mash at 65 degrees too. and use maris otter. I thought the amarillo was perfect.


----------



## drsmurto

Jeddog

Yes, those additions were changed so the 10 min addition becomes a 20 min addition and the 5 min moved to flameout. You then need to adjust the 60 min bittering addition to keep the total IBUs to 30.

Still 15g for those 2 additions.

And since i entered this beer as an english bitter i cant very well disagree with using 1469 now can I?  

That and the fact its my fave yeast :beerbang:


----------



## gibbocore

1469


----------



## Effect

~MikE said:


> for anyone contemplating using 1469 - don't unless you want to up the munich and caramel/crystal malts. it is still extremely nice, but the chewy english esteryness isn't the best suited for amarillo.



I hope you aren't mad at me for giving you that little push?


----------



## gava

Getting my first AG kit and the brew place suggested this for a good first brew..

I noticed it says Primary/Secondary fermintations, I assume that is what is called "racking" to another fermenting vat? if this is correct, since i only have one can I leave in the same vat for the whole time? if I can what else would I have to do different?


----------



## reviled

gava said:


> Getting my first AG kit and the brew place suggested this for a good first brew..
> 
> I noticed it says Primary/Secondary fermintations, I assume that is what is called "racking" to another fermenting vat? if this is correct, since i only have one can I leave in the same vat for the whole time? if I can what else would I have to do different?



Hey bud I never use a secondary so youll be fine, just dry hop when fermentations mainly over and leave for 7-10days..


----------



## Kleiny

+1 for reviled's comments

Ive made this and didn't secondary, dry hopped around day 8 

Its great to see a new AGer doing an easy recipe with a great result


----------



## HoppingMad

Yup. Did this as my first AG. The result was fantastic. Didn't use a secondary - just let the beer ferment out and let it sit for an extra week. So all up I did close to two weeks in one fermenter. As some have said you can bottle/keg this much earlier and still comes up a treat.

I have found the amarillo bitterness pretty big (but love the aroma and malty sweetness) so am considering easing off on some of the hop quantities for my next batch, will make it even more of a crowd pleaser. Plus amarillo is getting darn expensive.

Anyone know how to vote for recipes? I'd like to vote for this and can't figure it out. Looked everywhere and done a search.

Hopper.


----------



## buttersd70

in the recipe, click on the downward arrow next to the stars. Then in the dropdown box, select how many stars you want to give it.


----------



## HoppingMad

buttersd70 said:


> in the recipe, click on the downward arrow next to the stars. Then in the dropdown box, select how many stars you want to give it.



Thanks Butters! Trying to find it has been driving me crazy!


----------



## gava

Kleiny said:


> +1 for reviled's comments
> 
> Ive made this and didn't secondary, dry hopped around day 8
> 
> Its great to see a new AGer doing an easy recipe with a great result




when you dry hop do you just put the hops in the fermenter or do I need some fancy equipment?


----------



## Henno

you can wack it straight in. I have heard that dry hopping into the fermenter will cause a bit of a loss of aroma due to it 'blowing off' as CO2 is still being produced. This is why I chuck it into the secondary, and a big reason why I even bother with going into a secondary.


----------



## HoppingMad

gava said:


> when you dry hop do you just put the hops in the fermenter or do I need some fancy equipment?



Gava, up to you, but you really don't have to dry hop as there is a lot of hops in this beer already IMHO. To keep things simple, you could just leave it in primary fermenter then bottle off. That's what I have done and it comes up darn fine. Has big hop aroma without dry hopping.

Provided you've already put the final hop addition in at flame out as the good doctor's recipe suggests I reckon you'll have all the big hop you need. It's pretty forgiving this recipe.

Cheers and all the best with the final stages of it, regardless of how you make it :icon_chickcheers: 

Hopper.


----------



## Henno

Hey, here's a question. Not even off topic really as I have two fermenters of this ready to go. 

One will go into a keg and the other will be bottled. Having never bottled anything that is dry hopped before can you wack a little hop pellet into each bottle to keep that lovely amarillo smell a bit longer or would this upset the bitterness ratio?


----------



## ~MikE

gibbocore said:


> i've made about 5 batches of this now with the 1469, and i couldn't reccomend it higher, must be a personal taste thing, i mash at 65 degrees too. and use maris otter. I thought the amarillo was perfect.






Phillip said:


> I hope you aren't mad at me for giving you that little push?



This beer has just gotten better and better. freshly carbed with little-no cold conditioning, was kinda meh, but having let it settle out, treating with gelatin, i must say 1469 is in fact an excellent yeast to use with this one. it's quite a different beer to the 1056/us-05 variety, i think i blamed the yeast when i tried this batch too early...


----------



## drsmurto

Henno said:


> Hey, here's a question. Not even off topic really as I have two fermenters of this ready to go.
> 
> One will go into a keg and the other will be bottled. Having never bottled anything that is dry hopped before can you wack a little hop pellet into each bottle to keep that lovely amarillo smell a bit longer or would this upset the bitterness ratio?



You are better off just adding the hop pellets after the fermentation has finished. They will sink to the bottom of the fermenter eventually. Leave it for another 4-7 days and then bottle/keg as normal.


----------



## K&K

I brewed this as per recipe. But it's shockingly sweet... could it be a problem in fermentation?


----------



## drsmurto

How did you measure your mash temp?

At 66C and only 300g of crystal i am surprised you think its sweet.

Are you thermometers calibrated?

I found my HLT thermo was 3C under (out of the box) and cant be calibrated.


----------



## technocat

Beernut said:


> I just racked the Dr's GA into a keg today. I did add 100gr of malanoidin to the grain bill, had a prelim and tastes great. Looking forward to cracking this in three weeks.



Well the keg didn't last long it was a winner. Will put this down again in the future, this would have to be a classic.


----------



## gap

warra48 said:


> This recipe is obviously one of the all time favourites on this forum, very probably with good reason.
> I guess if it pushes your buttons, go for it.
> 
> Am I the only one never to have brewed it?
> How many others do not enjoy Amarillo hops?
> 
> Edit: This post is *NO* disrespect to DrSmurto, just my personal preference, nothing more.



i am not a fan of this style of beer so have never brewed it. I am also not a fan of Amarillo, Cascade or Chinook.
There must be something wrong with me????

Regards

Graeme


----------



## Kleiny

gap said:


> i am not a fan of this style of beer so have never brewed it. I am also not a fan of Amarillo, Cascade or Chinook.
> There must be something wrong with me????
> 
> Regards
> 
> Graeme



How dare you


----------



## Rob C

I have only brewed the partial version of this have not got around to doing it AG. Amarillo is also one of my favorite hops. 

I should get off my backside and brew it.

Cheers
Rob


----------



## QldKev

gap said:


> i am not a fan of this style of beer so have never brewed it. I am also not a fan of Amarillo, Cascade or Chinook.
> There must be something wrong with me????
> 
> Regards
> 
> Graeme




Then don't post a reply!!! as the mods have requested, "ensure that topics are kept informative"   

QldKev


----------



## matti

warra48 said:


> This recipe is obviously one of the all time favourites on this forum, very probably with good reason.
> I guess if it pushes your buttons, go for it.
> 
> Am I the only one never to have brewed it?
> How many others do not enjoy Amarillo hops?
> 
> Edit: This post is *NO* disrespect to DrSmurto, just my personal preference, nothing more.



I was one of the first to see this post and I still reckon the IBU are too Low and and have found that coupling cascade with Amarillo give a more desirable end product.
I also use perle for bittering. 

Thats my 2c worth
 
Matti

Though I don't knock Dr Smurto's ale. it is a ripper


----------



## gap

QldKev said:


> Then don't post a reply!!! as the mods have requested, "ensure that topics are kept informative"
> 
> QldKev




Why did you edit my post.
I was responding to the post before mine and included the quote. You chose to delete the quote I was responding to and quoted me out of context.


----------



## djavet

Thx for the recipe. I was searching something to brew with my NZ Hops. I've brewed it yesterday in an adapted extract version:
*NZ Golden Ale*
23-A Specialty Beer





*Grosseur:* 19.3 L
*Efficience:* 75.0%
*Attnuation:* 75.0%
*Calories:* 170.33 kcal per 12.0 fl oz

*Densit Initiale:* 1.051 (1.026 - 1.120)
|============*#*===================|
*Densit finale:* 1.013 (0.995 - 1.035)
|===============*#*================|
*Couleur:* 22.8 (1.97 - 98.5)
|===========*#*====================|
*Alcool:* 5.03% (2.5% - 14.5%)
|===========*#*====================|
*Amertume:* 34.7 (0.0 - 100.0)
|=============*#*==================|

*Ingrdients:*
2.5 kg Dry Light
100 g Toasted Pale Malt
300 g Caramunich TYPE I
25 g Amarillo (8.4%) - _Ajout l'bullition bouilli 60 min_
15 g Amarillo (8.4%) - _Ajout l'bullition bouilli 10 min_
1 tsp Wyeast Nutrient - _Ajout l'bullition bouilli 10 min_
1.5 tsp Irish Moss - _Ajout l'bullition bouilli 10 min_
15 g Amarillo (8.4%) - _Ajout l'bullition bouilli 5 min_
15 g Amarillo (8.4%) - _Tremp aprs bullition_
1 ea Fermentis US-05 Safale US-05
15 g Amarillo (8.4%) - _Ajout cr dans le fermenteur secondaire_

*Notes*
_http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/index.php?autocom=recipedb&code=show&recipe=502_

Rsultats gnrs par *BeerTools Pro 1.5.2*

Will dry hop in the secondary.

Dom


----------



## gibbocore

~MikE said:


> This beer has just gotten better and better. freshly carbed with little-no cold conditioning, was kinda meh, but having let it settle out, treating with gelatin, i must say 1469 is in fact an excellent yeast to use with this one. it's quite a different beer to the 1056/us-05 variety, i think i blamed the yeast when i tried this batch too early...



I have a keg of this grainbill/yeast on tap with simco for bittering, simcoe/amarillo falvour, amarillo for aroma, first week it was a bit fanta like, but second week its got lovely toffee and caramel undertones and light citrusy aromas, its just delcious.


----------



## technocat

gibbocore said:


> I have a keg of this grainbill/yeast on tap with simco for bittering, simcoe/amarillo falvour, amarillo for aroma, first week it was a bit fanta like, but second week its got lovely toffee and caramel undertones and light citrusy aromas, its just delcious.



Yes the Dr's GA really mellows and shines in it's fourth week in the keg that's if you can leave it for that long


----------



## gava

brewed this yesterday as my AG cherry popper... 

I didn't meet all my targets but Im still working out my AG kit.. Hopfully still comes out nice... im sure it will.. can't wait!


----------



## samhighley

I found that this recipe gives incredible head *cough*.

I'm using Celli taps, and no matter how much I restrict the flow, I get a glass consisting almost completely of foam.

I haven't had this problem with any other recipes, and I wonder if its because of the large amount of wheat?

Originally I thought it might be overgassed, so I disconnected it from the gas and burped it every few hours over a day or two, until no more gas was being burped. This didn't really seem to improve things.


----------



## gava

I had problems with cup-o-foam then I balanced my keg system with a 3m beer line.. now when my taps are cold I get a perfect beer each time.. 3m for me = roughly 100kpa carb AND pouring presure... leave and forget... 

edit: my balance was worked out with 5mm beer line, tap was placed 60cm up from the middle of the keg..


----------



## gava

up to day 8 and I think its stuck at 1020 I checked it over two days both on 1020.. i put the temp up to 21c will this kick start it again?


----------



## razz

Gently rock the fermenter for a few minutes gava.


----------



## Kleiny

Patience gav she might take another week


----------



## gava

patience!!!??  i gave it a little rock.. lets see how it goes.


----------



## gava

still on 1020


----------



## raven19

gava said:


> still on 1020



Maybe try racking to secondary, and increase temp slightly.

Back OT: I still have most of my keg of my first AG beer, the good Dr S's brew.

It is such a great beer, cant speak highly enough of it. I love the crispness and sharp bitterness in my version.

Part of this AG batch was dumped into my mates fermentor straight from kettle (I no chill in a cube), and lo and behold it has a some wild yeast along with the 1056. It isn't terrible, but certainly not a lofty high unlike the proper no chilled cube version. Since then my mate has decided on cubes also.


----------



## drsmurto

raven19 said:


> Maybe try racking to secondary, and increase temp slightly.
> 
> Back OT: I still have most of my keg of my first AG beer, the good Dr S's brew.
> 
> It is such a great beer, cant speak highly enough of it. I love the crispness and sharp bitterness in my version.
> 
> Part of this AG batch was dumped into my mates fermentor straight from kettle (I no chill in a cube), and lo and behold it has a some wild yeast along with the 1056. It isn't terrible, but certainly not a lofty high unlike the proper no chilled cube version. Since then my mate has decided on cubes also.



Still need to catch up with you and sample the AG cherry popper!


----------



## gava

raven19 said:


> Maybe try racking to secondary, and increase temp slightly.
> 
> Back OT: I still have most of my keg of my first AG beer, the good Dr S's brew.
> 
> It is such a great beer, cant speak highly enough of it. I love the crispness and sharp bitterness in my version.
> 
> Part of this AG batch was dumped into my mates fermentor straight from kettle (I no chill in a cube), and lo and behold it has a some wild yeast along with the 1056. It isn't terrible, but certainly not a lofty high unlike the proper no chilled cube version. Since then my mate has decided on cubes also.



I only have one fermenter  im waiting on another one from a mate who tried K&K but got bored now giving away his gear... anything else I can try.. I have 1x primary i brought two 20lt cubes can I transfer to that then clean fermenter and then transfer back? or just leave and hope it drops?


----------



## drsmurto

gava said:


> I only have one fermenter  im waiting on another one from a mate who tried K&K but got bored now giving away his gear... anything else I can try.. I have 1x primary i brought two 20lt cubes can I transfer to that then clean fermenter and then transfer back? or just leave and hope it drops?



Rack to a cube. its what i do. Fermenters are for primary only in my brewery, cubes/jerries are for secondary/ccing/lagering. Just whack some gladwrap over the hole with a loose rubber band to let the pressure escape.


----------



## raven19

DrSmurto said:


> Still need to catch up with you and sample the AG cherry popper!



Most Certainly Dr S!

I have not forgotten at all.

I have a few stubbies put aside just for us to sample! Along with some of the dry hopped version (with some wild yeast also....)


----------



## samhighley

DrSmurto said:


> Rack to a cube. its what i do. Fermenters are for primary only in my brewery, cubes/jerries are for secondary/ccing/lagering. Just whack some gladwrap over the hole with a loose rubber band to let the pressure escape.



I wonder how much pressure would be generated while lagering? Cubes will take a bit of pressure, and the swelling of the cube would make it pretty obvious if you had excess pressure in there, and you could crack the lid to let the pressure escape.


----------



## drsmurto

I think in this case gava just wants to rack to kickstart the yeast and so it will be done at the same temp as primary fermentation.

But you are right, even at lagering temps a lager yeast can still slowly ferment and the SG will drop a few points. Less likely with an ale yeast.


----------



## gava

I also thought it must just take awhile but its been "stuck" on 1020 for the past three days.. I'll check again tonight if its still on 1020 I'll rack to a cube.. 

whats the best way to clean a cube, I just brought it..


----------



## drsmurto

gava said:


> I also thought it must just take awhile but its been "stuck" on 1020 for the past three days.. I'll check again tonight if its still on 1020 I'll rack to a cube..
> 
> whats the best way to clean a cube, I just brought it..



Sanitise as normal.


----------



## samhighley

gava said:


> whats the best way to clean a cube, I just brought it..



Personally i'd soak it with hot water and sodium percarbonate for a few hours, then rinse with hot water, and sanitise as normal.

SP is an oxygenating cleaner, so expect the cube to swell quite a bit in the first hour or so. You can release the pressure after an hour, or just leave it. I just leave it, and when you give it the hot water rinse, it generally sucks back to the original shape.

Sodium percarbonate is available in neat form as Coopers Sanitiser at all good supermarkets (and probably some bad ones too).


----------



## gava

DrSmurto said:


> Rack to a cube. its what i do. Fermenters are for primary only in my brewery, cubes/jerries are for secondary/ccing/lagering. Just whack some gladwrap over the hole with a loose rubber band to let the pressure escape.




I have not racked before..What do you pour into the secondary? everything apart from the yeast cake thing at the bottom? or all?


----------



## raven19

gava said:


> I have not racked before..What do you pour into the secondary? everything apart from the yeast cake thing at the bottom? or all?



Just transfer the wort/beer. Leave the yeast cake/trub behind. You can tip the fermenter to get most of it through, and a little trub into the secondary wont be an issue as such. Proper sanitation and you shall be fine.  

Eidt: I use a length of tubing that fits over the tap, make it long enough to reach the bottom of your cube so not to aerate it too much. 2c.


----------



## K&K

DrSmurto said:


> How did you measure your mash temp?
> 
> At 66C and only 300g of crystal i am surprised you think its sweet.
> 
> Are you thermometers calibrated?
> 
> I found my HLT thermo was 3C under (out of the box) and cant be calibrated.




hey my good doctor, 

I take it all back . Beer has settled and the sweetness has gone.... it's a great beer. Mash Temp is measured using a thermometer. Thanks for your recipe.


----------



## gava

my Dr is still on 1020 after I shook and upped the ferment temp to 22c....

whats my options now? rack? or live with it? it's day 14 today.


----------



## Frank

gava said:


> my Dr is still on 1020 after I shook and upped the ferment temp to 22c....
> 
> whats my options now? rack? or live with it? it's day 14 today.



Rack it, and put it back into a clean fermenter. Don't be afraid to splash it around, Raven was correct earlier about tubing for finished beer, but yours still is not finished, so you need a bit more oxygen mixed into it (not too much though).
Are you planning on kegging or bottling?


----------



## gava

im kegging... could I just put in the corny and let it go for a few weeks at 4c?


----------



## Frank

gava said:


> im kegging... could I just put in the corny and let it go for a few weeks at 4c?


Going straight to keg is fine. You will get a small bit of yeast sediment later, but that will soon clear. Carb 40 to 50kPa to start with.
Check pressure regularly if your not drinking straight up, you don't want it to over carb.
I would leave it at room temperature not 4C for a week, the transfer would be enough to kick start the yeast again and finish the ferment, as I described earlier. You would use my previous method if bottling. The residual sugar should be enough to completely carb the beer, so be careful on pressure, (assuming normal mash temps etc).


----------



## captaincleanoff

how would this go with ale malt instead of the pilsner? Want to give one a go today but only have pils


----------



## gava

cracked open my first AG beer which is this... hmmmmmm nice...... sure beats Kits... I will be making this beer again..


----------



## Frank

gava said:


> cracked open my first AG beer which is this... hmmmmmm nice...... sure beats Kits... I will be making this beer again..



What was your final SG? Did you get it lower than 1.020?


----------



## gava

nope.. still at 1020.... *shakes fist* but hey.. first AG can't expect pure gold from word go..


----------



## kenlock

gava said:


> nope.. still at 1020.... *shakes fist* but hey.. first AG can't expect pure gold from word go..



Ironic? or have you given it a new name? :lol:


----------



## drsmurto

captaincleanoff said:


> how would this go with ale malt instead of the pilsner? Want to give one a go today but only have pils



A tad late i realise Captain but the version that won the awards at ANAWBS last year was ale malt instead of the pilsner.


----------



## seemax

Returned yesterday from holidays and promptly chilled a few stubbies of my Golden Ale, after only 2 weeks in the bottle.

I followed the grain bill almost to the letter, however for the hopping scheduled I decided to try a late hopping experiment with Amarillo and Willamette (left overs), 3 additions - 20mins, 5mins, 0mins producing around 25IBU.

First impressions are YES!! Really nice aroma, more than my previous APA's. The bitterness is definitely there, however the intial hit is very subtle and smooth and is followed by the bite. Hard to describe, but very pleasing to me. The munich + cara flavours are present and match the bitterness well. 

Another success story!!


----------



## brendo

OK... so I finally got to taste my AG popper - Smurto's Golden ale on the weekend - all carbed up in a freshly filled keg.

Verdict... it is a winner. I pretty much followed the Doc's recipe, but was a bit sceptical initially about dry hopping (simply as I had not done it before).

As I NC'd this batch, when i tasted the batch after primary, I found there was not much aroma left from the Amarillo, so dry hopping for a week sorted that right out.

Top recipe - very happy with the results. Had done a few exract versions before the AG brew and can say the extra effort is well worth it.

Keep up the good work Doc!!

Brendo


----------



## np1962

Got this one bedded down in the fermenter now.
Was a fantastic colour coming out of the kettle.
The aroma of the Amarillo sitting there waiting to be added to the boil was intoxicating.
Followed original recipe, will dry hop in secondary .
Am so looking forward to drinking this.  

Cheers Dr.S
Nige


----------



## flattop

I knocked one up on Sunday and pitched yesterday, the US-05 has taken off like a rocket today, beautiful krausen, i must remember to dry hop next weekend.
I agree the color and smell is a winner


----------



## andytork

I kegged and tasted mine Yesterday, all I can say is PERFECT, a recipe best shared, thank you!

p.s. I no chilled with whirfloc in kettle and polyclar before filtering, came out perfectly clear and golden.


----------



## Effect

Brewed a double batch of this yesterday...chilled half and no chilled the other half. Going to do a side by side to see how the no chill really affects the bitterness. Going to get the local adelaide crew to give it a taste test as well.

If it turns out alright (the no chill that is) I am so going to do a double double batch (well, 2 double batches in one day) and no chill the lot. Should keep the stocks healthy for some time. Might also do a Phillip's Golden Ale - same grain bill but different hops (simcoe or nelson sauvin).

Cheers
Phil


----------



## flattop

Dry hopped mine last weekend and added some gelatin today (snuck a taste) it's lost some of it's initial bitterness and the dry hops have added a kind of herb flavor but tastes really nice....


----------



## drsmurto

andytork said:


> I kegged and tasted mine Yesterday, all I can say is PERFECT, a recipe best shared, thank you!
> 
> p.s. I no chilled with whirfloc in kettle and polyclar before filtering, came out perfectly clear and golden.



Got a pic for us Andy?



Phillip said:


> Brewed a double batch of this yesterday...chilled half and no chilled the other half. Going to do a side by side to see how the no chill really affects the bitterness. Going to get the local adelaide crew to give it a taste test as well.
> 
> If it turns out alright (the no chill that is) I am so going to do a double double batch (well, 2 double batches in one day) and no chill the lot. Should keep the stocks healthy for some time. Might also do a Phillip's Golden Ale - same grain bill but different hops (simcoe or nelson sauvin).
> 
> Cheers
> Phil



Very keen on this taste test. 



flattop said:


> Dry hopped mine last weekend and added some gelatin today (snuck a taste) it's lost some of it's initial bitterness and the dry hops have added a kind of herb flavor but tastes really nice....



I find with the dry hops that its quite herby/grassy initially but about 5 days in it mellows out to a more stone fruit aroma. 

Looking at my records it appears i havent brewed one of these this year. That cant be right.......


----------



## DKS

No fair you guys. Mouth watering just reading about it, sounds delish. Is there a extract version? Im keen as to have a go but not up to AG yet. :icon_cheers: 
Daz


----------



## drsmurto

DKS said:


> No fair you guys. Mouth watering just reading about it, sounds delish. Is there a extract version? Im keen as to have a go but not up to AG yet. :icon_cheers:
> Daz



Full extract or kits and bits?


----------



## DKS

DrSmurto said:


> Full extract or kits and bits?



Well, at the mo Im steeping grain, caramalt and crystal so far, boiling unhopped malt extract and hops. Usually 12lt boil 1 hour, 3 hop addions. Willing to have a go at any other additions, adjuncts etc. Thank you Dr. :icon_cheers: 
Daz


----------



## captaincleanoff

DKS said:


> No fair you guys. Mouth watering just reading about it, sounds delish. Is there a extract version? Im keen as to have a go but not up to AG yet. :icon_cheers:
> Daz



BIAB


----------



## wyethm

DKS said:


> Well, at the mo Im steeping grain, caramalt and crystal so far, boiling unhopped malt extract and hops. Usually 12lt boil 1 hour, 3 hop addions. Willing to have a go at any other additions, adjuncts etc. Thank you Dr. :icon_cheers:
> Daz




I copied this from another thread (or maybe it was somewhere in the 14 previous pages of this thread):

DrSmurto's Golden Ale - kit version
1 can Thomas Coopers Sparkling Ale
1 can Coopers Wheat Malt
250g Caramalt 
15g Amarillo @ 15, 5 and dry hop.
US05

Cheers

Mark


----------



## DKS

captaincleanoff said:


> BIAB


 Yeh, yeh If I had my way, for sure. Ive been thinkin about it belive me, but I just moved house again,etc etc. My main problem with AG is I dont do anything in pussy steps. Its all in full on or dont start at all, and do it the best you can. One of these days perhaps when time is right,maybe. :icon_cheers: 
Daz


----------



## DKS

Kiwi Mark said:


> I copied this from another thread (or maybe it was somewhere in the 14 previous pages of this thread):
> 
> DrSmurto's Golden Ale - kit version
> 1 can Thomas Coopers Sparkling Ale
> 1 can Coopers Wheat Malt
> 250g Caramalt
> 15g Amarillo @ 15, 5 and dry hop.
> US05
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Mark


Thanks for that Kiwi Ill keep acopy of that one. :icon_cheers: 
Daz


----------



## drsmurto

That kit recipe was the last version before it was converted (and me) to AG. Was my fave kit recipe.

Other than stepping up to a partial i would recommend that for now. If you are feeling adventurous then a partial with a mini mash of Munich.......


----------



## DKS

DrSmurto said:


> That kit recipe was the last version before it was converted (and me) to AG. Was my fave kit recipe.
> 
> Other than stepping up to a partial i would recommend that for now. If you are feeling adventurous then a partial with a mini mash of Munich.......



Dr and Kiwi.
Thanks for that. Ill give it a go before trying a mini mash. 
I do like the Amarilo but not too strong.
As last time i used it was a bit much, 25gm with a Coopers Pale kit with cultured coop yeast, no wheat, but still a good one after youve got a bit of a glow up and want a bigger slap in the face. :icon_cheers: 
Daz


----------



## Wonderwoman

Kiwi Mark said:


> I copied this from another thread (or maybe it was somewhere in the 14 previous pages of this thread):
> 
> DrSmurto's Golden Ale - kit version
> 1 can Thomas Coopers Sparkling Ale
> 1 can Coopers Wheat Malt
> 250g Caramalt
> 15g Amarillo @ 15, 5 and dry hop.
> US05
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Mark



I bottled a batch of this yesterday... I can't wait to drink it as it was already tasting bloody beautiful.

perhaps Dr Smurto should put it in recipeDB...(hint, hint  )


----------



## Sentry459

DKS said:


> No fair you guys. Mouth watering just reading about it, sounds delish. Is there a extract version? Im keen as to have a go but not up to AG yet. :icon_cheers:
> Daz


I did an extract version a couple of weeks ago using a tin of light liquid extract and a tin of wheat. Steeped some caramalt and used DrSmurto's latest hopping schedule (although I subbed the 60mins addition for a higher AA hop). Two weeks in the bottle and it tastes pretty darn good. Will see how it ages, but so far I'm more than happy.


----------



## captaincleanoff

wonderwoman said:


> perhaps Dr Smurto should put it in recipeDB...(hint, hint  )



it is, it has the most votes


----------



## Sammus

captaincleanoff said:


> it is, it has the most votes



I think she meant the kit version...


----------



## drsmurto

Edited the recipe so it now includes both the kit and extract versions in the notes.


----------



## tcraig20

Kiwi Mark said:


> I copied this from another thread (or maybe it was somewhere in the 14 previous pages of this thread):
> 
> DrSmurto's Golden Ale - kit version
> 1 can Thomas Coopers Sparkling Ale
> 1 can Coopers Wheat Malt
> 250g Caramalt
> 15g Amarillo @ 15, 5 and dry hop.
> US05
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Mark



Ive done a full extract version of this. It's come up OK. I used 1.2 kg LDME, 1kg morgans wheat malt tin, 250g caramalt, and the good doctor's hopping schedule in 20 litres. 

If I were to do it again, I think I would mini mash some munich malt.


----------



## Wonderwoman

DrSmurto said:


> Edited the recipe so it now includes both the kit and extract versions in the notes.



good work!


----------



## malbur

Hi, looking for some help.
Can someone tell me is the mashout part of the 60 min mash time or is it 60 min plus 20 min mashout. :huh:


----------



## drsmurto

malbur said:


> Hi, looking for some help.
> Can someone tell me is the mashout part of the 60 min mash time or is it 60 min plus 20 min mashout. :huh:



60 mins at 66 and then another 10+ mins at 78.


----------



## AntCoop

Just a quick question with the 15 and 5 min hop additions.

Do you strain the pellets before putting into the fermenter or add them in with the wort before pitching yeast?

Then add the dry hopping at a later time when fermentation is almost done?

Cheers Coops :icon_cheers:


----------



## drsmurto

AntCoop said:


> Just a quick question with the 15 and 5 min hop additions.
> 
> Do you strain the pellets before putting into the fermenter or add them in with the wort before pitching yeast?
> 
> Then add the dry hopping at a later time when fermentation is almost done?
> 
> Cheers Coops :icon_cheers:



I assume this is a question relating to the kit version?

Up to you. I did - poured it thru a wire strainer.

Dry hopping is done either in the secondary vessel (and/or the keg) if you rack or once fermentation is complete in the primary vessel.


----------



## AntCoop

Yeah was referring to kit version. Thanks Dr Smurto.

Cheers Coops. :icon_cheers:


----------



## Gavo

Well just cracked a bottle of this brewed from the recipe listed in the DB. I did however use Galaxy for the bittering addition and threw in 5g of Galaxy in at 10min also.

Damn fine drop Mr Dr Smurto.

Cheers
Gavo.


----------



## paulwolf350

Kiwi Mark said:


> I copied this from another thread (or maybe it was somewhere in the 14 previous pages of this thread):
> 
> DrSmurto's Golden Ale - kit version
> 1 can Thomas Coopers Sparkling Ale
> 1 can Coopers Wheat Malt
> 250g Caramalt
> 15g Amarillo @ 15, 5 and dry hop.
> US05
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Mark



I brewed this up last night, just pitched the yeast and had a quick taste. The OG is 1.073, and in unfermented form is quite bitter. I brewed it exactly as above into 23 litres, was this designed to be a bigger batch than that? or will it still ferment out, and give me a drinkable brew, it is pretty dark, i wouldnt call it golden ale

Paul


----------



## drsmurto

OG 1.073 

i suspect you had a poorly mixed sample. The OG of this is closer to 1.045-1.050 at a guess. 

Extract version is darker than the AG version. 

I reckon it will be very drinkable Paul but I am openly biased!


----------



## wyethm

I did it a few weeks ago and OG was 1.045 and finished at 1.010.

You may have had goo in the tap. Run a bit out and then take your sample again.

After two weeks in the bottle it is great and the best part is it will only get better. Thanks DrSmurto.

Cheers

Mark


----------



## mr_tyreman

G'day guys i have brewed two lots of this, as my cherry popper, one batch 2 weeks ago and the other batch a week ago...

now i have left the first batch in the fermentor for 2 weeks, but it stalled at 1.020, but i was so excited to drink my first brew, i kegged it up today (after 2 weeks) and it chilling now for carbing tomorrow...

i checked the SG of the second batch that i brewed a week ago, and the Sg is down to 1.014 already...

should i keg it up? or will it be okay with another week in the fermentor?


----------



## mr_tyreman

Just found the Wiki topics, i think i have found my answer... derrr


----------



## Bubba Q

I havent been able to read this entire thread, because I am at work at the moment so Im not sure if the answer has already been posted, but I want to order the grain today

Anyhoos, I want to put this down as my first AG next weekend but was hoping to do it as a 25lt batch (so hopefully I can completely fill the cube)

Based on my calcs to do a 25lt batch I would need to up the grain bill to
3kg Weyerman Pilsner
1kg Weyerman Pale Wheat
1kg Weyerman Munich 1 
0.3kg Weyerman Caramunich 1

Does this sound about right? I should be able to figure out the increased hop additions to bring it back up to the correct number of IBUs.

Cheers.


----------



## raven19

BQ,

The recipe can be increased or decreased linearly as required. Same with hops, etc.

So in the case of this beer, Dr S has recipe for 20L batch, going to a 25L batch is simply multiplying all ingredients by 1.25 (25/20).

So yep, you have the right grain bill there to make it to the letter.

And what a great little drop it is!


----------



## Bubba Q

cheers for that


----------



## manticle

Due to the kindness of a brewer from this forum local to me, I've been able to try this.

Damn tasty beer.

I'm hoping to knock out a few less complex amber ales to up my stocks which are nil so I think a partial version of this is on the cards.


----------



## Bubba Q

had a taste of this out of the hydro jar tonight...

:icon_drool2: 

once this is kegged i will be bumping this up the que


----------



## Timmsy

I was going to put this down yesterday for my 1st full batch AG but the gas bottle my mate gave me was empty so i will do it this weekend. Am thinking at substituing it was Galaxy. Has anyone tried it and what does it turn out like as ive never used Galaxy or should i go to BB and buy some Amirillo?? If so what hop bill shall i use?


----------



## drsmurto

Timmsy said:


> I was going to put this down yesterday for my 1st full batch AG but the gas bottle my mate gave me was empty so i will do it this weekend. Am thinking at substituing it was Galaxy. Has anyone tried it and what does it turn out like as ive never used Galaxy or should i go to BB and buy some Amirillo?? If so what hop bill shall i use?



I have a pack of galaxy sitting in my freezer and planned on doing a straight swap for the amarillo.

I'd keep the late additions the same and adjust the 60 min addition to keep the IBU around 30.


----------



## KHB

Stupid question but how long do you usually dry hop for?? Had mine dry hopping for 3 days so far and want to crash chill so i can filter it.

Cheers

Scotsman


----------



## Timmsy

DrSmurto said:


> I have a pack of galaxy sitting in my freezer and planned on doing a straight swap for the amarillo.
> 
> I'd keep the late additions the same and adjust the 60 min addition to keep the IBU around 30.



Ok thanks for the heads up. I played with beersmith but wasnt sure what additions i should play with. I will do it tonight


----------



## np1962

Have this beer in bottles now for near on 3 weeks.
Brewed strictly to the bsm file on page one of this thread, well almost strictly.
Time got away from me with work away from home and I had it sitting at 1c for 3 weeks before I got it in the bottles.
Has done no harm at all!
Is a great beer. :icon_chickcheers: 
Cheers Smurto for sharing. Got a couple sitting here for you, and still got some of my first AG Ordinary Bitter for testing.

Cheers
Nige


----------



## Dave86

Kiwi Mark said:


> I copied this from another thread (or maybe it was somewhere in the 14 previous pages of this thread):
> 
> DrSmurto's Golden Ale - kit version
> 1 can Thomas Coopers Sparkling Ale
> 1 can Coopers Wheat Malt
> 250g Caramalt
> 15g Amarillo @ 15, 5 and dry hop.
> US05
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Mark



This is interesting to see, I'm going to do a kits and bits version of this as my next brew and it is similar to this in a way. (PS I think you may have found this in the recipeDB  )

The recipe I came up with for 25L was:

1 can Thomas Coopers Wheat Beer
1.5kg pale DME
250g Carawheat
25g Amarillo @ 15, 5, flameout and dry hop

This looks a bit hoppier on paper but it will be more subdued as it will only be 8-10L boil diluted down to 25L. Should come in at about 30IBU with 20 coming from the kit.

Happy brewing!

Edit: I may sub the amarillo for galaxy as I'm yet to use these yet and they sound amazing, or perhaps a combination...


----------



## raven19

Finished my very first AG keg last night, and it was the good Doctors GA. Such a nice drop, this shall definately become a regular on my keg rotations.

May have to try Dr S' Landlord first though... hmmmm decisions decisions..... :lol: :icon_cheers:


----------



## drsmurto

NigeP62 said:


> Have this beer in bottles now for near on 3 weeks.
> Brewed strictly to the bsm file on page one of this thread, well almost strictly.
> Time got away from me with work away from home and I had it sitting at 1c for 3 weeks before I got it in the bottles.
> Has done no harm at all!
> Is a great beer. :icon_chickcheers:
> Cheers Smurto for sharing. Got a couple sitting here for you, and still got some of my first AG Ordinary Bitter for testing.
> 
> Cheers
> Nige



Free beer? How can i say no? :lol:


----------



## muckey

DrSmurto said:


> Free beer? How can i say no? :lol:




you'll love it no doubt. After Nige's other samples I'm sure its a high quality product

hmm might be time to brew another 1 or 2 of these ready for when the weatherwarms up


----------



## paulwolf350

paulwolf350 said:


> I brewed this up last night, just pitched the yeast and had a quick taste. The OG is 1.073, and in unfermented form is quite bitter. I brewed it exactly as above into 23 litres, was this designed to be a bigger batch than that? or will it still ferment out, and give me a drinkable brew, it is pretty dark, i wouldnt call it golden ale
> 
> Paul



I brewed this extract version again last night, last brew before my impending switch to all grain, this time did a full wort boil,about 30 L, (instead of 16 litres). And i switched to amarillo this time, in keeping with the Dr's origonal recipe. Got 24 litres into my fermenter @ 1045, which is probably about spot on ( not like last time dunno what happened there, must have been a bad sample). 

I am pretty keen to see how this one comes out, prob about 2-3 litres too many, I also left 2 litres in the kettle, I recon a 27 litre boil for 21 litres in the fermenter would come out at 1050.

I am going to do the All grain next week, for a back to back comparison

Paul


----------



## reviled

Scotsman06 said:


> Stupid question but how long do you usually dry hop for?? Had mine dry hopping for 3 days so far and want to crash chill so i can filter it.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Scotsman



I normally dry hop between 7 and 10 days for maximum aroma extraction! 3 days would see you missing out on some of the good stuff!


----------



## felten

I made this up as my first extract brew last week, I used 2 unhopped cans of coopers and 250g of caramalt and the extract hopping schedule, the OG came out as 1.038 which surprised me, which I put it down to either poor measuring or poor technique  (though beersmith says 1.038 is about right if you adjust the cans weight to 1.25 instead of 1.5) Anyway its coming up fine so far, hit 1.011 after ~7 days @ 18 degrees.


----------



## Cocko

JEEZUZ!!

I just tapped my 5th batch of this recipe and it is the best beer I have ever made!! - Easy! 36 BIAB's in and I have found god!

It was a full 7kg grain bill BIAB, then added 2kg of LDME and 1kg dex - topped up to 44L [Double batch, giant partial I guess] All the others have been single AG biabs... AND just too much Amarillo! Don't get me wrong, I love me hops but usually end up drinking pretty green beer so notice the hopping more than most! BTW this is

Anyway, ran it hot [22 deg] cause I needed beer due to my first EVER un-drinkable batch... long story.

SO I dropped the hopping by 10g each addition and ran out of Amarillo so dry hopped Cascade in the fermenter...

Unfortunately, it is only 8%  but the balance of flavours is amazing!

Cheers again Dr. it is this and your LL that keeps the taps being a place of joy at Casa de Cocko!

NB: LDME added at 15 to boil to avoid clumping, dex added when water top up before pitching...

So in the end it looks like this:

View attachment 28235


Please send help, I am in trouble hear - an awesome tasting beer that is 8%... Oh dear.... Should I call in sick now?


----------



## lastdrinks

What other hops have people tried and tested as replacements for amarillo in this recipe? I have read the post and see that people have used and rate a cascade/amarillo mix. Also that galaxy was used but not rated.

I know this is a bit of a personal taste question but peoples experiences with different hops and the same malt bill would be useful. I have about a kilo of different hops and no amarillo left. :unsure:


----------



## cliffo

lastdrinks said:


> What other hops have people tried and tested as replacements for amarillo in this recipe? I have read the post and see that people have used and rate a cascade/amarillo mix. Also that galaxy was used but not rated.



I will be kegging one later this week where I used a combination of Nelson Sauvin & B-Saaz.

The hydro sample certainly tastes good.

cliffo


----------



## reviled

lastdrinks said:


> What other hops have people tried and tested as replacements for amarillo in this recipe? I have read the post and see that people have used and rate a cascade/amarillo mix. Also that galaxy was used but not rated.
> 
> I know this is a bit of a personal taste question but peoples experiences with different hops and the same malt bill would be useful. I have about a kilo of different hops and no amarillo left. :unsure:



I reckon centennial, simcoe, or columbus would go down nicely, edging towards centennial out of the 3...

Or for NZ hops, maybe subtle additions of Sauvin, or some D Saaz, but it would change the beer considerably IMO

What hops do you have available?


----------



## flattop

Ok i've been subbing the *bittering* hops, not the flavoring as i want to keep that *smack of Amarillo*. :icon_drool2: :chug: 
I did a batch with Nelson Savioun as the bittering 60min addition and it does taste a bit more sort of citrus like but the change is subtle.
I have a batch in the fermenter atm which is using Cascade as the bittering addition but haven't tasted it yet (dry hopped today).

Not that i recommend stuffing with the original recipe, it's a dead set pearler, it's just what i had laying around at the time (and cutting brew costs).

Dr Smurto's is the main brew in my house now, it's what is in the fermenter every 2nd brew and i'm clearing out old stock of other brews to free up bottles for the good stuff...


----------



## scrumpy

lastdrinks said:


> What other hops have people tried and tested as replacements for amarillo in this recipe? I have read the post and see that people have used and rate a cascade/amarillo mix. Also that galaxy was used but not rated.
> 
> I know this is a bit of a personal taste question but peoples experiences with different hops and the same malt bill would be useful. I have about a kilo of different hops and no amarillo left. :unsure:



hey lastdrinks!

i did a all styrian goldings version the other week <AG>, just about to bottle this week, tastes great out of the fermenter. I will post my results on this thread when it is ready!!


----------



## lastdrinks

Thanks for the responses. i have an original amarillo recipe in the fermentor as we speak but i just thought a recipe this good and popular cant be all down to the hops. The grain bill must be worth keeping for a few brews and playing with the hops. 
Below is what i have in the fridge

Green Bullet
Galaxy
Pacific Gem
First Gold
Fuggles
Brewers Gold
Saaz
Hallertau Tradition
Tettang
Cascade
Galena


----------



## Cocko

lastdrinks said:


> Thanks for the responses. i have an original amarillo recipe in the fermentor as we speak but i just thought a recipe this good and popular cant be all down to the hops. The grain bill must be worth keeping for a few brews and playing with the hops.
> Below is what i have in the fridge
> 
> Green Bullet
> Galaxy
> Pacific Gem
> First Gold
> Fuggles
> Brewers Gold
> Saaz
> Hallertau Tradition
> Tettang
> Cascade
> Galena



Good point, it is a great grain bill... but if aint broke!


----------



## lastdrinks

Fair point. It is a bit sacrileges to post it here as well, must be the winter solstice bringing it out in me


----------



## Gavo

lastdrinks said:


> Thanks for the responses. i have an original amarillo recipe in the fermentor as we speak but i just thought a recipe this good and popular cant be all down to the hops. The grain bill must be worth keeping for a few brews and playing with the hops.
> Below is what i have in the fridge
> 
> Green Bullet
> Galaxy
> Pacific Gem
> First Gold
> Fuggles
> Brewers Gold
> Saaz
> Hallertau Tradition
> Tettang
> Cascade
> Galena




Hmmn, Bitter with Galaxy, flavor with Cascade. :icon_drool2: 

Gavo.


----------



## manticle

If my limited experience of amarillo is anything to go by (and it probably isn't) then I think the amarillo hops are an integral part of the flavour.

That said the inventor of the brew has suggested doing various substitutions. Why not make as is then start playing with a few changes for comparison if you think it's a good brew?


----------



## Fourstar

manticle said:


> If my limited experience of amarillo is anything to go by (and it probably isn't) then I think the amarillo hops are an integral part of the flavour.



Yes.. that is correct. If you use different hops its not a JSGA clone or a smurto clone for that matter. Its a Golen ale inspired beer. Either way would still make a decent APA. IPA, ESB etc, etc. depending on your choice of hops and yeast.

Ive had my own version of a golden ale recipe sitting in my recipe db for around 2 years now. I know my extract version was tops so this should hopefully be a cracker. Im interested to see how this goes. i did do a few small edits thiseveing with my extra brewing wisdom of another 2 years. I adjusted the bases slightly by a few % points and added dark crystal. The hops are spot on! Oh, i added water additions as well to get those hops to sing like a bird! Might do this on my next brew day.

Beers! :icon_cheers: 


JS Golden Ale 
American Pale Ale 

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Brewer: Braden 
Boil Size: 30.90 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: My Brew Pot (40L) and Frosty Cooler (38L) 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 68.0 

Ingredients
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3.50 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (1.7 SRM) Grain 66.7 % 
1.00 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (2.0 SRM) Grain 19.0 % 
0.40 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (7.1 SRM) Grain 7.6 % 
0.25 kg Caramalt (Joe White) (17.3 SRM) Grain 4.8 % 
0.10 kg Crystal, Dark (Joe White) (86.7 SRM) Grain 1.9 % 
30.00 gm Amarillo [8.20%] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 30.6 IBU 
20.00 gm Amarillo [8.20%] (10 min) Hops 6.7 IBU 
30.00 gm Amarillo [8.20%] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops - 
0.50 tsp Baking Soda (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
2.00 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale 

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.049 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.8 %
Bitterness: 37.3 IBU
Est Color: 6.5 SRM

Mash Profile
Name Description Step Temp Step Time 
Mash In Add 13.69 L of water at 71.2 C 65.0 C 75 min 
Mash Out Add 8.76 L of water at 98.5 C 77.0 C 10 min 

Notes
add Salts 1/2 to mash 1/2 to boil


----------



## drsmurto

An 8% version Cocko? Sounds like a lot of fun!

As for hop substitution, i've used simcoe for bittering in the last few batches. Some batches i push for more flavour, less aroma, other times i swap that around.

Having tasted my home grown chinook APA, which to my tastes and others is more like B Saaz than US chinook, i would be tempted to do a B Saaz version maybe even in combo with cascade and make it a Golden Bright Ale (or Bright Golden Ale.....will work out the naming rights with Tony later!).

The recent AMB SMaSH challenge used green bullet and that made some very nice beers so that would work well..

And all styrian golden ale :icon_drool2: - scrumpy, please let me know how that one turns out!

Lots of galaxy being used so reckon that would work, i have a pack of it myself and planned on doing the original golden ale recipe subbing only the hops.

Cheers :beerbang: 
DrSmurto


----------



## gava

I've made this recipe with the Wyermann Grain and now going to try with subing some with Joe White..

I loved the taste with all Wyermann how much difference does the Joe White make?


----------



## AntCoop

Just tasting an extract version of the Dr's Golden ale with the light malt subbed for Coopers ND malt (medium amber) with the can of wheat malt and steeped caramalt.

The hopping was changed a little with Simcoe for 60 mins with Cascade / Amarillo for the 15min, 5min, and dry hopping.

Fg came to 1011. 

All my mates love it ! :icon_drool2: 

Thanks Dr Smurto, this had been my best effort yet!

Cheers Coops :beerbang:


----------



## drsmurto

gava said:


> I've made this recipe with the Weyermann Grain and now going to try with subing some with Joe White..
> 
> I loved the taste with all Weyermann how much difference does the Joe White make?



I've used JW trad and JW caramalt in this recipe and it went down a treat. See the notes under the recipe for comments.


----------



## KHB

DrSmurto said:


> I've used JW trad and JW caramalt in this recipe and it went down a treat. See the notes under the recipe for comments.




I have this on tap ATM, will be looking forward to seeing what the creator thinks of it!!!

Cheers


----------



## drsmurto

Scotsman06 said:


> I have this on tap ATM, will be looking forward to seeing what the creator thinks of it!!!
> 
> Cheers



Are you bringing a sample or 2 along on Friday night?

EDIT - just read your on tap list and am now very thirsty :icon_drool2: make sure you bring a sample of them all!


----------



## seemax

I haven't tried my batch of Golden Ale (late hopping edition) for about 3 months now... the first 10 or so after 2 weeks were very hoppy, real stand out flavour and potent aroma... but I did go higher in IBU's than the stock recipe and did a 60min boil but only started hopping at 20min mark.

Bring us to now... the flavour and aroma is still there, but the malt character has really developed...it tastes unlike other US-05 PA's I've done... this is a really special beer, one of my best I'd say.

All other brew plans on hold... I need to do another batch of this one!!


----------



## gava

Im currently brewing a GoldenAle and I want to brew another straight after.. can I just pour it on the old yeast cake? 

If I can.... What do I have to do??


----------



## Rustyc30

Just put one down today been off tap for far to long so cant wait for it to be in the keg


----------



## gava

hey..

just kegged the following.. had a taste from my final sample and it was great! was drinking a JS golden ale at the same time did a side by side and it was o-so close... 

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
2.76 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (1.Grain 56.91 % 
0.92 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (7.1 SRM) Grain 18.97 % 
0.92 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (1.8 SRGrain 18.97 % 
0.25 kg Crystal (Joe White) (72.0 SRM) Grain 5.15 % 
20.00 gm Amarillo [8.90 %] (60 min) Hops 19.5 IBU 
15.00 gm Amarillo [8.90 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops - 
15.00 gm Amarillo [8.90 %] (10 min) Hops 5.3 IBU 
15.00 gm Amarillo [8.90 %] (5 min) Hops 2.9 IBU 
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-05(56))Yeast-Ale 



Currently brewing the following...

2.76 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (3.0 SRM) Grain 56.91 % 
0.92 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (7.1 SRM) Grain 18.97 % 
0.92 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (1.8 SRM) Grain 18.97 % 
0.25 kg Carahell (Weyermann) (13.0 SRM) Grain 5.15 % 
20.00 gm Amarillo [8.90 %] (60 min) Hops 18.5 IBU 
15.00 gm Amarillo [8.90 %] (20 min) Hops 8.4 IBU 
15.00 gm Amarillo [8.90 %] (0 min) Hops - 
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-05(56)) Yeast-Ale 


Lets hope this'll be awesome too 

DrSmurto's I love this recipe.. Im putting on a keg at my Bday in a few weeks lets hope others like it to


----------



## gava

when bottling this, what is the suitable lenght before drinking it? does it keep well? doing this for a vic swap...


----------



## Kleiny

i would say not to let it sit around unless you can maintain a constant temp gava as it may draw off a few of the hop flavours / aroma's this beer seems to bring to the table.

I like this beer fairly fresh but then again i wouldn't know what it tastes like aged because it never makes it that far

Kleiny


----------



## Katherine

Kleiny said:


> i would say not to let it sit around unless you can maintain a constant temp gava as it may draw off a few of the hop flavours / aroma's this beer seems to bring to the table.
> 
> I like this beer fairly fresh but then again i wouldn't know what it tastes like aged because it never makes it that far
> 
> Kleiny




Yeah same, I think we had drank ours before the 3 week mark. Just had it on tap didnt last long either. It was buggered up tho as I ran out of gas and it missed out on all the flavour. Used US04 on this beer and I dont think I like it gave the beer this fruity taste I was not fond of.


----------



## matti

Made a similar recipe with a little more hops do deplete stock and I had it in bottle for over 3 months.
Bewdiful was the comments I got....
wow DR Smurto Beer thread 17 pages.... and growing....


----------



## gava

I can temp control it as long as I need to... just trying to get my dates ready so I know when i should brew this...
I just gave away most of my longnecks to.. thats what we require?



Kleiny said:


> i would say not to let it sit around unless you can maintain a constant temp gava as it may draw off a few of the hop flavours / aroma's this beer seems to bring to the table.
> 
> I like this beer fairly fresh but then again i wouldn't know what it tastes like aged because it never makes it that far
> 
> Kleiny


----------



## drsmurto

gava said:


> when bottling this, what is the suitable lenght before drinking it? does it keep well? doing this for a vic swap...



As others have noted, the aroma will dissipate with time.

I like it both ways  :lol: 

Fresh its an APA (albeit at the very low end of the scale in ABV and IBU) with plenty of hop aroma.

Older its more like an english pale ale with the malt starting to take centre stage.


----------



## loikar

DrSmurto said:


> As others have noted, the aroma will dissipate with time.
> 
> I like it both ways  :lol:
> 
> Fresh its an APA (albeit at the very low end of the scale in ABV and IBU) with plenty of hop aroma.
> 
> Older its more like an english pale ale with the malt starting to take centre stage.



Its ******* divine regardless!!

No one has drank a bottle of mine (apart from SWMBO), im like a dog with a bone!
Which is probably why I didn't send you the 6-pack Doc  

But, if you need ever need someone to ride shotgun on a brewday I'll gladly bring a dozen or so around


----------



## gava

Im putting a Keg of this on for my bday next sat and have another one in the fermenter to be kegged that morning ready for the next weekend  I LOVE IT!!



BeerFingers said:


> No one has drank a bottle of mine (apart from SWMBO), im like a dog with a bone!
> Which is probably why I didn't send you the 6-pack Doc


----------



## ramu_gupta

Looking forward to brewing this on Friday. Following the recipe to the letter. Sounds like a mouth watering recipe. 
Thanks DrS.


----------



## hoppinmad

I have quite a fair bit of Nelson Sauvin left over from my last brew and was wondering whether it would be okay to use with this recipe. I also have about 40g Green Bullet flowers too which I thought may be useful for the bittering addition. Any thoughts?


----------



## troopa

Being still new to ag after 10 or so brews i managed to hit the nail on the with this once or twice (oh i pretty much only brew golden ale) 
anyway after chasing that elusive effieciency number i managed to get further and further away from what i wanted by brewing something with more body then i was after.. still nice just not a session beer like the original was
Anyway long story short went down to Marks Home Brew with a sample and he picked it straight away.. ive been pushing up the temps to try and extract more sugarz not really taking into account that i was changing the style at the same time 

anyway back to basics again mash low, throw efficiency numbers out the window and just brew 
Oh and i might just skip this brew next time and make that Damn seductive Single addition Saaz that Mark let me sample the wort of.

You know things are getting bad when your getting excited over the flavors of Wort

Tom


----------



## flattop

HoppinMad said:


> I have quite a fair bit of Nelson Sauvin left over from my last brew and was wondering whether it would be okay to use with this recipe. I also have about 40g Green Bullet flowers too which I thought may be useful for the bittering addition. Any thoughts?



I used NS as the 60m bittering addition and it was a nice brew, you can really only taste a slight difference between that and the original recipe but I'm not sure if the recipe would swing further away if it was the 10min addition as well. If you use Amarillo as the dry hop it will probably be ok though.


----------



## brando

This recipie was my first ever AG and was done only a few weeks ago. Will be sampling the first bottle later this week.

Having said that, I pretty much know what I'm in for taste-wise, due to the fact that I drank 2 pints of the stuff straight from the fermenter while bottling. First time i've ever done that. Tasted real nice :beerbang:


----------



## scrumpy

great beer DR.......this was my first AG, my 3rd AG and this weekend im making it my 10th!!! 

the 3rd was an all styrian goldings version very diff to the original but a great beer in its own right!!! had a lovely honey..ish flavour with 'piney' aromas in the nose..wel worth a try.. I think its safe to say this is on its way to being my house ale!!! also good to experement different hop variatys on.


----------



## flattop

Styrian....hmm i'm gonna try that, i just got the grain crushed for a 4th Smurto.


----------



## gava

A mate came around lastnight and brewed a this recipe although I wasn't happy because I just tweaked my equipment from my last brew and lastnight my mate hit every mark even volumes to a tee!!! very jealous its not my beer  

once again it smelt fantastic from mash to boil... love it!!!! luckly we had some on tap also so we could taste what it was going to taste like 

cheers Dr S..... 

by the way went through two kegs on my birthday and i had a lot of "megaswill" left over the next day from people drinking the Golden Ale instead of what they brought to the party.. in my books thats a good beer right there...


----------



## JaffaMan

I just put down my first extract version of this recipe, cant wait for it to be ready. 
Hops and caramalt smelt awsome just before turning the heat off.


----------



## Katherine

its nice with Challenger.


----------



## boybrewer

Just did a double batch 2 weeks ago one was all grain LCBA and the other was Docs Golden Ale.l did an extract version of this, it's sitting in the secondary with 15g of saaz hops thats all the hops l had left (make note buy more hops) so far the hydro tastes great can't waite to bottle it, which will be this wednesday.Thanks heaps to all AHBers on this site who have turned me into a beer drinker. :beerbang: 


Beer Belly


----------



## Phoney

Question: Does this really need 14 days in the primary? Mine's been down for 8 already, it's reached 1.012, theres no krausen and im itching to free up my fermenter for another batch.... Thoughts?


----------



## manticle

Leaving beer for a bit longer, even when FG is reached, allows the yeast to clean up after itself so unwanted flavours can dissipate. Your best option is to buy another fermenter. My beers have improved tenfold since I became less concerned with getting them in the bottle just becasue I could.


----------



## lastdrinks

manticle, i find if i take mine out early i just need to drink 2 or 3 then i dont notice any difference, should give it go.


----------



## manticle

Yes I find if I get really hammered in the afternoon that my crap beers taste less crap too.


----------



## muckey

I'll add a +1 for leaving it longer.

If you dont have fermenter space then get a couple of cubes, jerries etc and rack into them to leave for a week or 2 to condition and get another brew happening in the fermenter. A little patience will give a big payoff


----------



## gava

+2 for leaving in the fermenter for two weeks...

my normal time line for this drop is two weeks in the fermenter two weeks kegged... (granted a few times its lasted only one week in the keg because I've tapped it)  such a good drop.


----------



## Jeate

hey!!


ive just punched this into beersmith for a 23L batch of MR SMURTOS BEER. ive done 2 others the first i followed to the T (amarrilo) the next was an all cascade version..
this one i've upped the grain bill to achieve the larger batch size.. also thought of doing this one to 40 IBU with a heap of styrian goldings i have in the freezer, also might use wyeast 1056 american ale. Id like to get some opinions on it...

when i upped the IBU in beersmith it only increased the "boiling" hops... ya recon the 78 grams (4.8 AA) is too much.


2.75 pilsner
.920 munich
.920 wheat
.290 caramunich

78g styriann goldings 60min
25g 10min
20gm 5min
10gm 0min

cheers for any input dudes!!! :icon_cheers:


----------



## scrumpy

I was thinking of using the grain bill from this recipe to use up a some of my old hops, I'll try keep the ibu in the same ball park Im just not to sure what hops would go well together outa my selection of left overs. here is what i've got..

25g willamete
45g perle
75g styrian goldings
80g saaz
60g fuggles
15g chinook
25g challenger
45g target 

my first thoughts where to use target for bittering then challenger somewhere in the boil then maybe try willamette at the end of the boil.....Ive aso seen people using perle in american pale ales, what do you think??


oh ive done the drs original recepie 3 times now all have been great bees.

cheers!


----------



## Mantis

scrumpy said:


> I was thinking of using the grain bill from this recipe to use up a some of my old hops, I'll try keep the ibu in the same ball park Im just not to sure what hops would go well together outa my selection of left overs. here is what i've got..
> 
> 25g willamete
> 45g perle
> 75g styrian goldings
> 80g saaz
> 60g fuggles
> 15g chinook
> 25g challenger
> 45g target
> 
> my first thoughts where to use target for bittering then challenger somewhere in the boil then maybe try willamette at the end of the boil.....Ive aso seen people using perle in american pale ales, what do you think??
> 
> 
> oh ive done the drs original recepie 3 times now all have been great bees.
> 
> cheers!



Dont know all those hops but I would FWH with chinook, 45min addition of Saaz and last min with Goldings. 
But I do things funny 

Been doing pale ales (JW Trad, Wheat, JW Cara )with POR FWH, Cascade 45 min and either Cascade or Amarillo or both at flameout or just before. Beers are Gooooood


----------



## scrumpy

Mantis said:


> Dont know all those hops but I would FWH with chinook, 45min addition of Saaz and last min with Goldings.
> But I do things funny
> 
> Been doing pale ales (JW Trad, Wheat, JW Cara )with POR FWH, Cascade 45 min and either Cascade or Amarillo or both at flameout or just before. Beers are Gooooood



cheers mantis....what is FWH? does saaz really work well in pale ales?


----------



## drsmurto

Jeate - do it! All styrian ales are gorgeous! 

Its a lot of late hopping so this isnt going to be a subtle beer!

Scrumpy - I'd be tempted to bitter with target, challenger at 15 and chinook at 5.


----------



## shark

Might have already been answered..... but will it make much difference using Joe White grains instead of Weyermann grains?


Thanks
Ben


----------



## drsmurto

The beer that scored 46/50 at last year's ANAWBS used JW ale and caramalt instead of Wey Pils and Wey Caramunich.

And i noticed that Beerbelly sells both versions of the golden ale now as packs - All JW and all weyermann!


----------



## Thunderlips

DrSmurto said:


> And i noticed that Beerbelly sells both versions of the golden ale now as packs - All JW and all weyermann!


Maybe I'm reading this wrong...

Are you saying that Beerbelly sell packs like Grumpy's Boston Cream Masterbrew and they have a version 
of your Golden Ale?

I had a look at their site but couldn't find anything.


----------



## drsmurto

Thunderlips said:


> Maybe I'm reading this wrong...
> 
> Are you saying that Beerbelly sell packs like Grumpy's Boston Cream Masterbrew and they have a version
> of your Golden Ale?
> 
> I had a look at their site but couldn't find anything.



Its not on their site but they get asked for it regularly so they pre-pack it. 

Its on the shelves when you go in there.


----------



## Thunderlips

DrSmurto said:


> Its on the shelves when you go in there.


Ah, thought that might be the case.

Easy enough for me to buy the bits and pieces anyway.


----------



## loikar

DrSmurto said:


> Its on the shelves when you go in there.



That's gotta be a pretty good feeling mate!


----------



## drsmurto

Absolutely, i am chuffed.

Wayne and i had a chat about it and he asked me whether i minded him doing that.

I had no issues as long as my name was stuck to the recipe (or at least credit given). 

I noticed in someones 1st AG post a while back a pic of one of these packs with my name on the label.

Brewing a double batch of this recipe on the weekend to take away with a bunch of mates on a camping trip. Wanted an easy drinking beer.


----------



## shark

Thanks for that Doc


----------



## itmechanic

After a little help with hop additions for this one. I only have 25g Amarillo left, but i have heaps of cascase, tettnang, POR, northern brewer, saaz, magnum and southern cross. Ive just been down to my LHBS and he diddnt have any Amarillo. What should i use?

Cheers

Paul


----------



## Fatgodzilla

itmechanic said:


> After a little help with hop additions for this one. I only have 25g Amarillo left, but i have heaps of cascase, tettnang, POR, northern brewer, saaz, magnum and southern cross. Ive just been down to my LHBS and he diddnt have any Amarillo. What should i use?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Paul




I'd suggest the easiest thing would be subbing the early additions with cascade and using the amarillo in the late additions. 

You could use the POR or NB even as a bittering hop and late use the amarillo and I'd don't think you'd have too much variation from the theme.

Its the late amarillo that is the signature of this recipe.


----------



## gava

DrSmurto said:


> I noticed in someones 1st AG post a while back a pic of one of these packs with my name on the label.



Yeah that was mine.. came from BB with your name all over it


----------



## drsmurto

itmechanic said:


> After a little help with hop additions for this one. I only have 25g Amarillo left, but i have heaps of cascase, tettnang, POR, northern brewer, saaz, magnum and southern cross. Ive just been down to my LHBS and he diddnt have any Amarillo. What should i use?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Paul



Cascade blends beautifully with amarillo. 

As FGZ said if you only have 25g leave it for late additions.


----------



## itmechanic

Thanks for the help guys  , ive ended up going with 25g POR @ 60, 15g Cascase @ 10, 15g Amarillo @ flameout and 20g Amarillo in secondary. Hows that sound?


----------



## drsmurto

itmechanic said:


> Thanks for the help guys  , ive ended up going with 25g POR @ 60, 15g Cascase @ 10, 15g Amarillo @ flameout and 20g Amarillo in secondary. Hows that sound?



:chug:


----------



## jbman

Hi guys, 

I am looking at doing this as my second brew attempt. The only LHB store I have been to in Perth in Brewcraft is Ozzie Park. I didn't see they had any Coopers stock there. 

Any ideas where I could get the ingredients to make the kit version of this, either online or in a shop close to the CBD?

Cheers


----------



## rackemup

jbman said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> I am looking at doing this as my second brew attempt. The only LHB store I have been to in Perth in Brewcraft is Ozzie Park. I didn't see they had any Coopers stock there.
> 
> Any ideas where I could get the ingredients to make the kit version of this, either online or in a shop close to the CBD?
> 
> Cheers




Stock road markets, deliverence homebrewing - is a really good hb shop with a great supply of just about anything you will need for hb'ing, great hops and yeasts selection,grains,tins,sugars etc etc


----------



## pants

Thanks, DrSmurto... JSGA is just not the same anymore! I brewed the award-winning version, and I love it. Can't wait to tap the keg...

pants.


----------



## poompy

brewed this up using the following

thomas coopers sparkling
coopers LLME
200gm carapils
cascade 15gm @15, @5, @0

absolutely fantastic even considering i didnt have any amarillo and the lhbs didnt have light crystal
will be definitely making this regularly.


----------



## thanme

I'm looking at making this bad boy, but being a n00b to specialty grains, I was wondering what sort of difference using JWM Crystal 140 would have over Caramalt?? I only asked because I'll have some Crystal left over from a prior brew and it would save me buying more


----------



## drsmurto

NME said:


> I'm looking at making this bad boy, but being a n00b to specialty grains, I was wondering what sort of difference using JWM Crystal 140 would have over Caramalt?? I only asked because I'll have some Crystal left over from a prior brew and it would save me buying more



I say go for it and report back. :icon_cheers:


----------



## dicko

itmechanic said:


> Thanks for the help guys  , ive ended up going with 25g POR @ 60, 15g Cascase @ 10, 15g Amarillo @ flameout and 20g Amarillo in secondary. Hows that sound?



Hi,

That would be the go as in my opinion for what it is worth cascade is not the best for a bittering addition.
I often use EKG or NB for bittering with the cascade or whatever fruity hop for the flavour /aroma/ dry etc.
Anyway sounds good!

Cheers


----------



## boostin

Are you meant to get any phenolic flavours in this beer?

Made the following and I think it has a medium phenolic flavour (but not 100%, just seems to taste like a lighter Hoeegarden flavour)

3kg LME
.5kg Dry Wheat Extract
250g Crystal

20g Amarillo 60mins
20g Amarillo 20mins
20g Amarillo 5mins
20g Amarillo Dryhop about 7 days.

US-05 yeast.


----------



## Barley Belly

Here's my latest No-Chill variation of DSGA
Cubed last week and now have a spare fermenter spot

Have made it with 10g/10g late hop additions :icon_drool2: 
But thought I'd up it to 15g/15g this time

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: 51 Amarillo Gold MKII
Brewer: finners
Asst Brewer: 
Style: English Special or Best Bitter
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 22.00 L 
Boil Size: 26.57 L
Estimated OG: 1.049 SG
Estimated Color: 14.1 EBC
Estimated IBU: 16.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
2.50 kg MaltEurop Australia Ale (3.5 EBC) Grain 54.3 % 
0.90 kg Munich Light (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 19.6 % 
0.90 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 19.6 % 
0.30 kg Caramunich I (Weyermann) (90.0 EBC) Grain 6.5 % 
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.20%] (40 min) Hops 16.4 IBU 
15.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.20%] (0 min) Hops - 
15.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.20%] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Hops - 
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Harvested 500ml Starter (Fermentis #US-05)Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 4.60 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time 
Mash In Add 12.00 L of water at 71.9 C 65.6 C 75 min 
Mash Out Add 7.68 L of water at 93.5 C 75.6 C 10 min 


Notes:
------
1st 0min hops added at flameout/start of 20 minute whirlpool
2nd 0min Aroma hops added to kettle 5 minutes before draining to no chill cube

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## tez

Can i ask the dumbest question you may ever hear

If i only want to a make 10 litre amount, would i just half all the ingredients? is that how it works?


----------



## davewaldo

Yep, halving all the ingredients will work just fine. The only thing to remember is that your boil evaporation will stay basically the same as your usual brew so you may need to tweak your volumes to ensure you finish with 10L


----------



## Digger11

Tasted my kit version of the famous Dr Smurto Golden Ale and I must admit it wasn't really to my liking.

My first brew was the standard Coopers Kit and I am quite enjoying that. Not much flavour but very easy drinking - tastes like a carlton natural blonde to me.

The Dr Smurto has a fairly strong aroma and flavour (I assume this is the Amarillo) and a bit bitter I think. It has only been conditioned for 12 days - so I might leave the other 28 bottles until Xmas.

What changes in flavour and aroma will another 7 weeks of conditioning give it do you think ?

Also, I am about to bottle a Grape and Grain FWK - it is looking very very cloudy at this stage - but smells like nice beer.

Digger


----------



## bowie in space

The G&G FWK's are "no chilled", straight into those 17L cubes, so you're bound to get cloudiness because of no cold break. I've done a few and they're always good. Try dry hopping after a few days in the fermenter too  .

Bowie


----------



## Digger11

Bowie,

Yeah, I followed this recipe from their Website.

1. Australian Premium Lager
Boil 20 grams of Tettnang hops for 10 minutes in 1 litre of water. Turn off the heat. Add 20 grams more Tettnang hops and leave to soak for 1-2 minutes. Pour through a kitchen strainer into your fermenter.

Add 2 litres of cold water, the wort kit and pitch the yeast. Saflager 34-70 or Wyeast 2124 or 2278 would be good choices. Ferment at 10 12 degrees. Or you could use a US56 yeast and ferment at 18 22 degrees.

Using US56 (OR 05) yeast.

Feels a bit like cheating in buying the Wort - but if it tastes good then I will be happy.

Digger


----------



## churchy

Alright I might as well write something like eveyone else has, I made this beer and am drinking it at the moment and it's bloody fantastic even the misses likes it and she doesn't drink.I will be making this beer again , thanks DrSmurto for a exellent recipe.




Andrew


----------



## mattcarty

hey

inspired by the "move to all grain for $30" article i am going to give my first all grain a go, and this recipe will kick it off. hopefully it all goes well!

cheers
carty


----------



## raven19

Will be putting down another batch of this for an upcoming work Movember show. All donations to Movember.

May sneak a bit of spec malt into it (not sure what yet... maybe biscuit or special B - small % only), but it shall stay all amarillo hops.


----------



## reviled

DrSmurto said:


> The beer that scored 46/50 at last year's ANAWBS used JW ale and caramalt instead of Wey Pils and Wey Caramunich.
> 
> And i noticed that Beerbelly sells both versions of the golden ale now as packs - All JW and all weyermann!



Mate, just reading bout beerbelly stocking your recipe in packs!! That is awesome stuff big congrats smurto :beerbang:


----------



## muckey

ripper brew this 1

have been wanting to do this again for some time so mashed it last night - cant wait

my only change is to use amarillo and cascade


----------



## raven19

Put down a double batch of the Dr's Golden Ale, with a small Special B addition.

This is the 'Mo-Brau' Movember batch for work (donations all to Movember).

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: 11 Dr S Golden Ale
TYPE: All Grain


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 40.00 L 
Boil Size: 50.76 L
Estimated OG: 1.038 SG
Estimated Color: 8.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 35.5 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3.89 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (1.7 SRM) Grain 56.51 % 
1.30 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (7.1 SRM) Grain 18.84 % 
1.30 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (1.8 SRGrain 18.84 % 
0.30 kg Caramunich I (Weyermann) (51.0 SRM) Grain 4.36 % 
0.10 kg Special B (300.0 SRM) Grain 1.45 % 
45.17 gm Amarillo [8.90 %] (60 min) Hops 27.1 IBU 
24.19 gm Amarillo [8.90 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops - 
24.66 gm Amarillo [8.90 %] (10 min) Hops 5.4 IBU 
24.66 gm Amarillo [8.90 %] (5 min) Hops 3.0 IBU 
0.81 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
2 Pkgs SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-05(56))Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 6.88 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
75 min Mash In Add 19.42 L of water at 74.3 C 66.0 C 
10 min Mash Out Add 12.95 L of water at 99.7 C 78.0 C 


Notes:
------
mash 66


----------



## BjornJ

Thinking of trying the Dr.Smurto Golden Ale as well after reading so much good stuff about it.

I have a question about the yeast, would WLP001 American Ale Yeast or a Coopers yeast recultured from a CPA be the best bet?

I have a slant in the fridge of both and have not tried the coopers yeast ever, just kept a bit from a bottle once to try at some point. Is it a good candidate for this beer?

(Or go completely off the rails and use a lager yeast?)

thanks
Bjorn


----------



## raven19

BjornJ said:


> I have a question about the yeast, would WLP001 American Ale Yeast or a Coopers yeast recultured from a CPA be the best bet?



Go for it! I would lean towards the WLP001 personally.


----------



## raven19

Bottled version of the Mo-Brau, 1.5% Special B into the DSGA. Late hitting bitterness in this version which I dont mind at all, I may dry hop the remaining 15L in the keg... unlikely though!

My coworkers enjoyed this beer and it helped raise some more $$$ towards Movember.


----------



## MitchDudarko

Hey all, When is the whirfloc added? This will be my first AG brew and I don't want to miss anything out.
Cheers


----------



## bowie in space

MitchDudarko said:


> Hey all, When is the whirfloc added? This will be my first AG brew and I don't want to miss anything out.
> Cheers




Whirfloc, or irish moss, is used in the last five minutes of the boil. I crush half a tablet and dissolve in a small cup of tap water. It helps coagulate the proteins.


----------



## bowie in space

matt carty said:


> hey
> 
> inspired by the "move to all grain for $30" article i am going to give my first all grain a go, and this recipe will kick it off. hopefully it all goes well!
> 
> cheers
> carty




Hey Carty,

how did the virgin AG go?

did mine a coupla months back and loved it. All gone :chug: 

Bowie


----------



## bowie in space

Digger11 said:


> Bowie,
> 
> Yeah, I followed this recipe from their Website.
> 
> 1. Australian Premium Lager
> Boil 20 grams of Tettnang hops for 10 minutes in 1 litre of water. Turn off the heat. Add 20 grams more Tettnang hops and leave to soak for 1-2 minutes. Pour through a kitchen strainer into your fermenter.
> 
> Add 2 litres of cold water, the wort kit and pitch the yeast. Saflager 34-70 or Wyeast 2124 or 2278 would be good choices. Ferment at 10 12 degrees. Or you could use a US56 yeast and ferment at 18 22 degrees.
> 
> Using US56 (OR 05) yeast.
> 
> Feels a bit like cheating in buying the Wort - but if it tastes good then I will be happy.
> 
> Digger



Digger,

I went interstate last weekend, but the day before I left, I purchased a FWK from G&G. The guy at the counter said "aaah, a cheat's beer, hey?" I felt guilty but if time is an issue it's still cheaper than buying two cases of whatever commercial beer you drink. 

How did it turn out, did you dry hop?

Bowie


----------



## drsmurto

Brewing my 1st major modification of this recipe on Sunday.

Swapping out the wheat for rye.

Thommo is currently fermenting a rye version so thought i'd do the same.

Might also use munich II.

The next variation after that is to try carawheat in place of the caramunich and maybe use dark wheat.


----------



## altone

Oh my Dr S - you're my brewing hero.

I tried this because I thought JSGA had potential and I've enjoyed all of your recipes I've made in the past.

I essentially followed your recipe except for using a little less munich2 than your specified munich1 then 
I nochilled and added the last hops in secondary - a day or 2 before kegging.

So much better than JSGA - flavour and aroma to burn.

Now I'm off to check what other recipes you have ... B)


----------



## Elbow

Hi All,

Just put this down as my second ever all-grain using the BIAB method. Once I'd finished the boil, I transferred to a no-chill cube, about 21 litres all up with around 2 litres left in the pot due to trub and hop gunk. I started with 32 litres.

I took a reading from the left over gunk and it gave me 1030, which is obviously not great.
2 questions really:
1. Can you get a different reading from the left over liquid in the pot than the actual wort?
2. If this reading is correct, can I bump it up on brew day with a can of extract? Otherwise, I reckon I might get an alcohol content, post fermentation of around 2.9%. Still tasty no doubt, but a bit on the light side!

Cheers and a Happy New Year!

p.s. - I know I have some issues with my brewing. I'm doing everything I think I can. The only part that might be suspect is my thermometer. It's on those cheap $10 jobs, so it's possible that it might not be accurate. Would this make a difference?


----------



## manticle

Elbow said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Just put this down as my second ever all-grain using the BIAB method. Once I'd finished the boil, I transferred to a no-chill cube, about 21 litres all up with around 2 litres left in the pot due to trub and hop gunk. I started with 32 litres.
> 
> I took a reading from the left over gunk and it gave me 1030, which is obviously not great.
> 2 questions really:
> 1. Can you get a different reading from the left over liquid in the pot than the actual wort?
> 2. If this reading is correct, can I bump it up on brew day with a can of extract? Otherwise, I reckon I might get an alcohol content, post fermentation of around 2.9%. Still tasty no doubt, but a bit on the light side!



1. I don't know for sure but I would read from the fermenter rather than the gunk. Was the gunk hot? Higher temps will give you lower gravities so you need to adjust to 20 degrees.
2. Yes you can add malt extract or sugar to bump up an OG. Just make sure you are clean and sanitary. I would normally boil up some dme, cool it (covered with clig film while it cools) then gently add it in.


----------



## raven19

1030 is low, but it could turn out to be a good quaffer of the lower alcohol variety. I would double check your gravity when ready to pitch the yeast.

As per Manticles post, there is no issue adding dme or similar afterwards to beef it up more.


----------



## manticle

The other thing to remember is to check your pre-boil gravity. This will fix your OG (proportional to final volume) so if you hit target pre-boil volume, you will know if you're efficiency is good before you boil. Still need to adjust to 20 degrees.


----------



## Elbow

manticle said:


> The other thing to remember is to check your pre-boil gravity. This will fix your OG (proportional to final volume) so if you hit target pre-boil volume, you will know if you're efficiency is good before you boil. Still need to adjust to 20 degrees.



I opened up the cube today to get a second opinion. I drew off a quick sample and the re-sealed it, spraying with no rinse sanistiser and expelling the air again. This time my reading was 1042, so much better! I'll know to let the wort cool before I get a reading next time. Having said that, I think I still need a new thermometer anyway. Thanks for all the advice.


----------



## Gavo

Elbow said:


> I opened up the cube today to get a second opinion. I drew off a quick sample and the re-sealed it, spraying with no rinse sanistiser and expelling the air again. This time my reading was 1042, so much better! I'll know to let the wort cool before I get a reading next time. Having said that, I think I still need a new thermometer anyway. Thanks for all the advice.



If you opened the Cube you will need to get it in a fermenter and fermenting *now*, as any air-bourne bugs/bacteria will have got to the wort and cause an infection in the cube even with the precuations you have taken.

Gavo.


----------



## under

LOL dude. Yeah I think im with Gavo on this one.


----------



## Gavo

Yep have a look at a similar experience that Tony had Here.

Gavo.


----------



## Elbow

Gavo said:


> Yep have a look at a similar experience that Tony had Here.
> 
> Gavo.



Ok, righto. I've got a packet of Wyeast that is smacked, ballooned up and ready to go into a starter. I guess I'll skip that and pitch right away.


----------



## Gavo

Elbow said:


> Ok, righto. I've got a packet of Wyeast that is smacked, ballooned up and ready to go into a starter. I guess I'll skip that and pitch right away.



Good plan. What yeast is it?

Gavo.


----------



## Elbow

Gavo said:


> Good plan. What yeast is it?
> 
> Gavo.




It's the Wyeast Thames Valley 1275. I pitched it last night and the wort is now sitting at 18 degrees in my brew fridge.


----------



## drsmurto

DrSmurto said:


> Brewing my 1st major modification of this recipe on Sunday.
> 
> Swapping out the wheat for rye.
> 
> Thommo is currently fermenting a rye version so thought i'd do the same.
> 
> Might also use munich II.



Kegged this lunchtime on NYE. Rye in place of wheat, munich II and combined cascade and amarillo for late additions.

To my amazement all my megaswill drinking mates attacked this tap rather than the german pilsner. The next morning i lifted all the kegs to check them and the rye GA was almost empty. Pils is ~1/4 full.

Will be making it again very soon. Rye is my new favourite malt.

Will add some crystal rye next time as well.


----------



## Digger11

bowie in space said:


> Digger,
> 
> I went interstate last weekend, but the day before I left, I purchased a FWK from G&G. The guy at the counter said "aaah, a cheat's beer, hey?" I felt guilty but if time is an issue it's still cheaper than buying two cases of whatever commercial beer you drink.
> 
> How did it turn out, did you dry hop?
> 
> Bowie



Yeay, I dry hopped.
Drinkable but still not really great. I think the Tattnanang Hops are too ovepowering. Not sure what I'll brew next. Might try smaller batches until I can find a flavour I like.


----------



## Elbow

Elbow said:


> It's the Wyeast Thames Valley 1275. I pitched it last night and the wort is now sitting at 18 degrees in my brew fridge.



I'm pretty sure this brew is rooted :angry:  

The Wyeast I pitched took a couple of days to get going, so it could have developed an infection. I drew off a sample today to check with the hydrometer and it was really bad. Has anyone tasted an infected brew before? This one tasted and smelled quite chemically. I thought that might have been due to maybe not thoroughly washing out the cube when I cleaned it with pink stain remover, but I'm pretty sure that was not the case. I even tasted a bit of the wort once i poured it into the fermentor and it was fine.

I was due to rack this to secondary and add some more Amarillo. Should I not waste my hops and just ditch it?


----------



## manticle

Elbow said:


> I'm pretty sure this brew is rooted :angry:
> 
> The Wyeast I pitched took a couple of days to get going, so it could have developed an infection. I drew off a sample today to check with the hydrometer and it was really bad. Has anyone tasted an infected brew before? This one tasted and smelled quite chemically. I thought that might have been due to maybe not thoroughly washing out the cube when I cleaned it with pink stain remover, but I'm pretty sure that was not the case. I even tasted a bit of the wort once i poured it into the fermentor and it was fine.
> 
> I was due to rack this to secondary and add some more Amarillo. Should I not waste my hops and just ditch it?



Chemical as in band-aid/disinfectant?

Did you use chlorine as a sanitiser?


----------



## Rodolphe01

i made this the other day, I scaled it up to 23 litres and substituted a portion of the pilsener malt with light DME (maintained same gravity as recipe) because I wanted to keep all the same ratios of spec malts and I am only able to mash a max of 3.5kg of grain with my current gear. All went well so should be a nice brew.


----------



## Elbow

manticle said:


> Chemical as in band-aid/disinfectant?
> 
> Did you use chlorine as a sanitiser?



Band aid for sure. I used the pink chlorine stuff, but washed it all out and sanitised it with brewshield. Maybe I was not thorough enough.


----------



## manticle

Band aid flavours can relate to infection but they can also relate to a reaction between your brew and chlorine which result in chlorephenols. Chlorephenols have a lower taste threshold than chlorine and are usually described as smoky, clovey band-aidy or medicinal.

I've had trouble with it before. If you use chlorine you need to make sure you rinse well (unless you use no-rinse proportions and I'm not sure how much I trust that myself). Rinsing with super hot (ie boiling water) will drive off residual chlorine as will sodium metabisulphite.

However - take this with a grain of salt but all my brews that have relied strongly on Amarillo have given me a weird medicinal hint which others drinking it don't seem to pick up on. It's something I have to experiment with as I generally love amarillo and have a house beer that uses it in spades. I also found that the brew I had which most likely hadn't been rinsed after bleach treatment (and which didn't use amarillo) mellowed out after a good few months in the bottle. I still have one left (around 6 months old now) so you may be lucky.

Do you have room to ferment anything else while you wait and see? Otherwise chuck it and start afresh


----------



## Elbow

manticle said:


> Band aid flavours can relate to infection but they can also relate to a reaction between your brew and chlorine which result in chlorephenols. Chlorephenols have a lower taste threshold than chlorine and are usually described as smoky, clovey band-aidy or medicinal.
> 
> I've had trouble with it before. If you use chlorine you need to make sure you rinse well (unless you use no-rinse proportions and I'm not sure how much I trust that myself). Rinsing with super hot (ie boiling water) will drive off residual chlorine as will sodium metabisulphite.
> 
> However - take this with a grain of salt but all my brews that have relied strongly on Amarillo have given me a weird medicinal hint which others drinking it don't seem to pick up on. It's something I have to experiment with as I generally love amarillo and have a house beer that uses it in spades. I also found that the brew I had which most likely hadn't been rinsed after bleach treatment (and which didn't use amarillo) mellowed out after a good few months in the bottle. I still have one left (around 6 months old now) so you may be lucky.
> 
> Do you have room to ferment anything else while you wait and see? Otherwsie chuck it and start afresh



My gut reaction tells me that it will never be drinkable. It's definitely more than a hint, more like a punch in the face! I don't have another fermentation space, so I think i'll leave it until I brew next (probably next weekend), check it once more and then chuck it if it's still as bad as it is now.


----------



## poompy

This was my first all grain brew. Mashed it on the 17/01/10 and bottled it on the 25/01/10. Cracked my first bottle yesterday arvo. It was fantastic.

I had previously done the kit and bits recipe and I can honestly say that the AG recipe is another step up in quality.

This wont be the last time that i brew this beer.


----------



## MarkBastard

I think I'm gunna do this as my first AG brew (bit of a trend forming eh?).

I noticed the notes said to change the malt as follows...
2.4kg JW trad
0.25kg JW Caramalt
0.8kg Weyermann Pale Wheat
0.8kg Weyermann Munich 1

And also to change the Amarilo additions to 20min with no dry hops. What does this mean exactly? Just one bittering and one 20 minute addition? What IBU should be achieved with each addition?


----------



## drsmurto

Mark^Bastard said:


> I think I'm gunna do this as my first AG brew (bit of a trend forming eh?).
> 
> I noticed the notes said to change the malt as follows...
> 2.4kg JW trad
> 0.25kg JW Caramalt
> 0.8kg Weyermann Pale Wheat
> 0.8kg Weyermann Munich 1
> 
> And also to change the Amarilo additions to 20min with no dry hops. What does this mean exactly? Just one bittering and one 20 minute addition? What IBU should be achieved with each addition?



The malt is up to you. I've made it with all weyermann and also all JW. 

The change in hops means for a 20L batch - 20g @ 20mins, 20g @ 0 mins. Keep the total IBU to 30 so adjust the 60 min addition accordingly. Whenever i design a recipe the 60 min hop addition is the last and is used to hit the target IBU.

I prefer this schedule as the amarillo is boiled for longer for some flavour and the flameout addition is for aroma. Note that i chill so this will need changing if you plan on no chilling. I believe the no chillers don't add the 0 min addition and add it post ferment?


----------



## MarkBastard

Thanks Doc.


----------



## churchy

I brewed this for the second time a few weeks ago and has been in the keg for two weeks now.I have tried a few glasses and it comes out cloudy even though I used gelatine in the fermenter and is almost a orange colour.The taste is like a pineapple orange friut drink, does anyone know what I might have done wrong.It doesn't look or taste like the first golden ale I made.


Cheers Andrew


----------



## BjornJ

Hi,
my first version was also pretty orange looking and murky, but after a week or so in the fridge after completed bottle carbonation it suddenly dropped bright and clear  

After 2 weeks in the keg you should already be seeing some improvement, I would have thought?
Is it unclear if you tap a glass and let it warm up to room temperature?

thanks
Bjorn


----------



## The Mad Hopper

DrSmurto said:


> I prefer this schedule as the amarillo is boiled for longer for some flavour and the flameout addition is for aroma. Note that i chill so this will need changing if you plan on no chilling. I believe the no chillers don't add the 0 min addition and add it post ferment?



Yeah, that's how I did it with no-chill to get the aroma from the Amarillo. (for the record: dry hopped at about 3/4 to final gravity, transferred to secondary at final gravity for 2 weeks with a tbsp of sugar, bottled and conditioned for a month. Great aroma.)


----------



## jetfoley

Has any1 got a decent Partial grain recipe for this? I can do 15L boils...

I've had a look through this thread, but I cant see one. Maybe I just missed it...

Jet


----------



## drew9242

Have a look at the notes on the recipe in the database. Dr. put the partial and extract recipes there.

Edit: Sorry he only put a kit version recipe up there. I'm not sure about a partial.


----------



## drsmurto

JetF said:


> Has any1 got a decent Partial grain recipe for this? I can do 15L boils...
> 
> I've had a look through this thread, but I cant see one. Maybe I just missed it...
> 
> Jet



Replace the pilsner malt with 1.5kg of liquid extract and add that after the boil. Top up to 20L.

So just mash the munich/wheat and caramunich.

Rough calcs
1.50 kg Pale Liquid Extract 
1.00 kg Munich I 
1.00 kg Wheat Malt
0.20 kg Caramunich I 
20.00 gm Amarillo [8.90 %] (60 min) Hops 23.6 IBU 
15.00 gm Amarillo [8.90 %] (10 min) Hops 6.4 IBU 
15.00 gm Amarillo [8.90 %] (5 min) Hops 3.5 IBU 

Based on a 15L, 60 min boil.


----------



## Pete2501

churchy said:


> I brewed this for the second time a few weeks ago and has been in the keg for two weeks now.I have tried a few glasses and it comes out cloudy even though I used gelatine in the fermenter and is almost a orange colour.The taste is like a pineapple orange friut drink, does anyone know what I might have done wrong.It doesn't look or taste like the first golden ale I made.
> 
> 
> Cheers Andrew



Sounds like a lot of hop aroma to me. Amarillo is a citrus hop. I'd say the proteins in your beer are coming through as hill haze.


----------



## BjornJ

Hi all,
reading on the label of the James Squire Golden Ale, it says it has roasted wheat and barley.

Has anyone tried modifying the Dr's recipe to include small amounts of these?

I started playing with the beersmith file, but the roased additions seriously change the color, even at 100 gr each.

thanks
Bjorn


----------



## drsmurto

BjornJ said:


> Hi all,
> reading on the label of the James Squire Golden Ale, it says it has roasted wheat and barley.
> 
> Has anyone tried modifying the Dr's recipe to include small amounts of these?
> 
> I started playing with the beersmith file, but the roased additions seriously change the color, even at 100 gr each.
> 
> thanks
> Bjorn



My dodgy memory tells me the label says toasted, not roasted. 

I have played around with using darker kilned malts (munich 2, dark wheat) but have got stuck on my current variant of rye instead of wheat and caraaroma instead of the caramunich/caramalt.


----------



## glaab

your dodgy memory is correct,..."toasted grains of wheat and barley"


----------



## Yeastie Beastie

I did it exactly as the recipe DB and Doc is right, it is a dead set quaffer...
I opened a bottle after 1 week, as i religiously do just to check how things are going, and it too was very cloudy but tasted awesome. After 2 weeks in the bottle the cloudiness did not completely dissappear but had significantly reduced. After 3 weeks in the bottle it had really come into it's own, beautiful, clear and an absolute treat to drink. I even took a bottle to my local pub owner and he loved it a lot.
I will be making this for sure again soon.

YB


----------



## BjornJ

Ah, "toasted", not "roasted"...

Should have checked that before ordering my last grain order..

I have ordered grains for a half batch of the Golden Ale but adding some roasted wheat and roasted barley.
I also added a bit of sugar and replaced the early Amarillo with POR just as I have some of that handy.

Will be interesting to see how it turns out, if nothing else as an alternative recipe if not as good as the original one  

thanks
Bjorn


----------



## Andrew Coleman

Good idea replacing the pilsner malt for *Thomas Fawcett Golden Promise, or **Thomas Fawcett Maris Otter? It's what I have lying around at the moment!

Cheers Drew
*


----------



## drsmurto

Drewcifer said:


> Good idea replacing the pilsner malt for *Thomas Fawcett Golden Promise, or **Thomas Fawcett Maris Otter? It's what I have lying around at the moment!
> 
> Cheers Drew
> *



I've used the TF Maris Otter in this. All good.


----------



## benno1973

churchy said:


> I brewed this for the second time a few weeks ago and has been in the keg for two weeks now.I have tried a few glasses and it comes out cloudy even though I used gelatine in the fermenter and is almost a orange colour.The taste is like a pineapple orange friut drink, does anyone know what I might have done wrong.It doesn't look or taste like the first golden ale I made.
> 
> 
> Cheers Andrew



Hi Andrew,

When you say pineapple fruit drink, do you mean sweet? The Amarillo will lend some great tropical fruit flavours, but not a sweetness. Did you use enough hops? Were they fresh? What was the FG reading?

When the beer is cloudy, the orange colour will seem more intense than when the beer is bright, so I wouldn't worry too much about that. And this is meant to be a golden ale, so a golden colour is desirable. Not sure why it isn't dropping bright though. I only ever had one beer that didn't clear after gelatine, and it was due to infection. Well, I imagine it was the infection that kept it cloudy - the beer tasted horrible but I kept it on tap for a month to make sure. It was still cloudy and horrible after a month, so it got tipped.


----------



## BjornJ

Got the EBC's back from Dave's Homebrew, adding roasted barley and wheat will make it even darker than I thought..

EBC is now 43.5 while the original file from Dr.Smurto has EBC 13.4.
Hmm...

Is there such a thing as toasted wheat and barley, or does that mean variants of crystal malt (for the barley)?

Thanks
Bjorn


----------



## drsmurto

BjornJ said:


> Got the EBC's back from Dave's Homebrew, adding roasted barley and wheat will make it even darker than I thought..
> 
> EBC is now 43.5 while the original file from Dr.Smurto has EBC 13.4.
> Hmm...
> 
> Is there such a thing as toasted wheat and barley, or does that mean variants of crystal malt (for the barley)?
> 
> Thanks
> Bjorn



Crystal wheat or caramel wheat is available from the sponsors. 

Munich and vienna are what i think of when toasted malts are mentioned. Slightly higher temperature kilned than ale/pils malts and add a nice bready flavour (munich) and almost honey like (vienna).

My current 'golden' ale on tap is 30 EBC using caraaroma as the crystal malt (as well as rye instead of wheat and galaxy instead of amarillo)


----------



## BjornJ

Mmmm, that sounds nice!

I am making only a half-batch of this so I can get around to do an "improved version" faster.

Thinking 

Darker Golden Ale:

boil size 12.5 litres for 10 litres in fermenter

1.00 kg of base malt
0.30 kg of wheat malt
0.20 kg of Munich, light
0.05 kg of roasted wheat
0.40 kg of cane sugar

10.0 gr POR (10%AA) @ 60 min for 22.4 IBUs
7.50 gr Amarillo (8.6%AA) @ 20 min for 8.7 IBUs
7.50 gr Amarillo (8.6%AA) @ 0 min for 0 IBUs

(plus
0.5 whirlfloc
2.7 gr of Chalk CaCO3 in mash for Sydney Prospect water)


This should give 

OG: 1.036
FG: 1.008 (guessing it won't go as low, my beers never go below 1.010)

EBC 27.2
IBU 31.3

and an alc % of 3.65 before bottle carbonation, so say 4.2% in the bottle.



Does that sound like an OK variant, DrSmurto?

A little doubtful about the mashing temp..
Adding a bit of sugar to "lighten it up" while considering a higher mash temp due to low OG.
May just be confusing myself here :lol: 

I don't really want to go any higher than 4% in the bottle but at the same time considering adding sugar. Maybe better to increase base malt and take out the sugar..


Thinking the POR rather than Amarillo should be ok, as the essential oils will all have evaporated and only bitttering resins left after 60 mins anyway.
(and I have more POR than Amarillo in the freezer).

Not so sure how clever the roasted wheat part is, though..

Never used it so want to try, but hoping I am not making too dark and heavy on the roasted side of things.



I love this part of the process, the hmm'ing and aaah'ing in beersmith and playing with different grains, reading about them on craftbrewer, looking up the mineral values in Palmer, and generally feeling like a mad scientist. Ignoring the fact that it has been done a million times before, I really like it!


thanks
Bjorn


----------



## drsmurto

You will only get another 0.2-0.4% abv on carbonation and since this isn't a fizzy beer I'd suggest the lower end of the scale.

So if it was me I would up the OG to 1.040 minimum.

If you want to lower the OG from the original you will/should/might want to lower the IBU to keep it balanced. For an OG of 1.036 (assuming you want to stick with that) drop it back to 25 IBU.

If you want it lighter in body then mash lower. 64-65C. I'm not a fan of adding sugar (even though the general consensus is that JSGA is brewed with a % of sugar) but your are right, by doing so you will lighten the body and lower the FG. 

Your % of crystal is also lower so you need to take that into account as the residual sweetness provided by crystal malts won't be there. If you want a darker beer that's fine but I would still be adding some lighter coloured crystal malt as well as the pinch of roasted wheat (which you are unlikely to taste)


----------



## benno1973

DrSmurto said:


> Munich and vienna are what i think of when toasted malts are mentioned.



I tend to think of biscuit, victory and brown malt when talking about toasted. Any of these would go well in this recipe, and I just brewed an amber ale with 150g brown malt the other day and it has a really nice toasty flavour to it.


----------



## BjornJ

DrSmurto said:


> You will only get another 0.2-0.4% abv on carbonation and since this isn't a fizzy beer I'd suggest the lower end of the scale.
> 
> So if it was me I would up the OG to 1.040 minimum.
> 
> If you want to lower the OG from the original you will/should/might want to lower the IBU to keep it balanced. For an OG of 1.036 (assuming you want to stick with that) drop it back to 25 IBU.
> 
> If you want it lighter in body then mash lower. 64-65C. I'm not a fan of adding sugar (even though the general consensus is that JSGA is brewed with a % of sugar) but your are right, by doing so you will lighten the body and lower the FG.
> 
> Your % of crystal is also lower so you need to take that into account as the residual sweetness provided by crystal malts won't be there. If you want a darker beer that's fine but I would still be adding some lighter coloured crystal malt as well as the pinch of roasted wheat (which you are unlikely to taste)





I am sure you are right.
In two minds between following the original recipe as the JSGA is one of my clear favourites and my first try at the recipe was "so so" or going off-road by changing the recipe to a darker version. My head says stay on the path and my heart wants to try something different  

crystal:
I have 100gr of cracked Crystal in the freezer from my last Australian Lager, should I add that?

IBUs:
Will have a play with the recipe again tonight about the IBUs, but should I reduce the initial POR or the 20 min Amarillo then?

carbonation:
The last couple of beers I have made I have actually gone the other way, and used 3.0 volumes of CO2 and bulk priming. I know this sounds like a lot, but after pouring into a jug to get off the sediment and then pouring into a glass, often leaving the rest in the jug in the fridge until finishing the first glass as well I find 3.0 volumes seems ok. I makes for a quite fizzy beer which I don't mind and it makes sure the second glass has a bit of bubbles as well. Not sure how much % that relates to, just thought it was 0.5% without knowing where I read that.

thanks again for your help,

Bjorn


----------



## Andrew Coleman

Will be making my own variation of this beer, goes as follows, 

2.4kg Golden Promise
0.8kg Weyermann Rye
0.8kg Weyermann Vienna
0.15kg Carahell
0.1kg Cararoma

20g Amarillo @ 60 min
15g Amarillo @ 10 min
7.5g Amarillo @ 5 min
7.5g Cascade @ 5 min
7.5g Amarillo Dry Hopped to Secondary
7.5g Amarillo Dry Hopped to Secondary

looking forward to the results, I've made the original recipie and loved it so i felt id make an alt version for some fun, pretty safe recipie im thinkin, I'll get pack to this forum when I've made progress!

Cheers from the Drew! :icon_cheers:


----------



## drsmurto

BjornJ said:


> I am sure you are right.
> In two minds between following the original recipe as the JSGA is one of my clear favourites and my first try at the recipe was "so so" or going off-road by changing the recipe to a darker version. My head says stay on the path and my heart wants to try something different
> 
> crystal:
> I have 100gr of cracked Crystal in the freezer from my last Australian Lager, should I add that?
> 
> IBUs:
> Will have a play with the recipe again tonight about the IBUs, but should I reduce the initial POR or the 20 min Amarillo then?
> 
> carbonation:
> The last couple of beers I have made I have actually gone the other way, and used 3.0 volumes of CO2 and bulk priming. I know this sounds like a lot, but after pouring into a jug to get off the sediment and then pouring into a glass, often leaving the rest in the jug in the fridge until finishing the first glass as well I find 3.0 volumes seems ok. I makes for a quite fizzy beer which I don't mind and it makes sure the second glass has a bit of bubbles as well. Not sure how much % that relates to, just thought it was 0.5% without knowing where I read that.
> 
> thanks again for your help,
> 
> Bjorn



Drop the IBU by playing around with the 60 min addition not the flavour and aroma additions (other than scaling for volume). Carbonation is low. JSGA isn't fizzy, it says so on the label! So if you love JSGA then carb it low. the crystal is fine. 

Play around with it by all means, don't just make changes because i suggest it. Its your beer so brew it the way you want to!




Drewcifer said:


> Will be making my own variation of this beer, goes as follows,
> 
> 2.4kg Golden Promise
> 0.8kg Weyermann Rye
> 0.8kg Weyermann Vienna
> 0.15kg Carahell
> 0.1kg Cararoma
> 
> 20g Amarillo @ 60 min
> 15g Amarillo @ 10 min
> 7.5g Amarillo @ 5 min
> 7.5g Cascade @ 5 min
> 7.5g Amarillo Dry Hopped to Secondary
> 7.5g Amarillo Dry Hopped to Secondary
> 
> looking forward to the results, I've made the original recipie and loved it so i felt id make an alt version for some fun, pretty safe recipie im thinkin, I'll get pack to this forum when I've made progress!
> 
> Cheers from the Drew! :icon_cheers:



Have made 2 rye variations of this beer and the next version will be using vienna instead of munich. 

I also love the cascade/amarillo combination! I recall Muckey gave me a bottle of his version many moons ago which was an amarillo/cascade combo. Beautiful it was.


----------



## Andrew Coleman

Yeah I agree, a less intense combination then centennial and amarillo which i find is a little much, by the way slight mistake in hop scedule, was actualy...

20g Amarillo @ 60 min
15g Amarillo @ 10 min
7.5g Amarillo @ 5 min
7.5g Cascade @ 5 min
7.5g Amarillo Dry Hopped to Secondary
7.5g Cascade Dry Hopped to Secondary [not Amarillo]

I've also been playing around with perle and cascade to get floral and citrus together, might try something of the sorts after this recipie!

Drewey :icon_cheers:


----------



## glaab

from BS grain library ;,... Toasted malt can be made at home by toasting pale malted barley for 10-15 minutes at 350 F [177 C]. Similar to Biscuit or Victory malt - this malt adds reddish/orange color and improved body without sweetness. Toasted flavor. Mashing required to avoid haze.


----------



## Wolfy

glaab said:


> Toasted malt can be made at home by toasting pale malted barley for 10-15 minutes at 350 F [177 C]. Similar to Biscuit or Victory malt - this malt adds reddish/orange color and improved body without sweetness. Toasted flavor. Mashing required to avoid haze.


Randy Mosher, Radical Brewing (page 92) suggests, in regard to amber and brown malt: "You can also easily roast your own. Start with uncrushed pale or Pilsner malt and pop it into a 350F (190C) oven for thirty to forty-five minutes. Pull a few grains out and taste them, they will taste much darker than they look. You want a rosy pale copper color, although nutty toasty flavors start to come in when the malt is just starts to turn in color."


----------



## BjornJ

did this brew today, the darker version.
Ended up with EBC 30 and IBU 28 and OG 1.040, will hopefully be ok.


thanks
Bjorn


----------



## theredone

im not quite sure i follow. it says use coopers sparkling for kit. then suggests to replace it with unhopped coopers. lol which do i do if i dont want to go all grain just yet?


----------



## drsmurto

theredone said:


> im not quite sure i follow. it says use coopers sparkling for kit. then suggests to replace it with unhopped coopers. lol which do i do if i dont want to go all grain just yet?



If you are doing K&K then use the coopers sparkling kit. 

The last comment is for those who do full extract brewing and don't want to use a can of hopped extract. This requires a 60 minute boil to achieve the same bitterness.

Which one do you do?


----------



## Hatchy

I brewed this with the coopers sparkling can & it's easily the best brew I've done in over 10 years of hit & (mainly) miss brewing. I couldn't keep it much under 26 due to the Adelaide summer & lack of a fermenting fridge (at the time). I'm going to get a double batch going in the fridge this weekend I reckon because I've almost run out already. This is the only beer I've brewed that mates have chosen over a coopers. I'll give the extract version a go at some point but I'm looking forward to bottling (& drinking) another 60 longnecks of the kit version 1st.

Thanks for putting the recipe up Dr Smurto. I've got several mates who love you for it.


----------



## komodo

Hatchy hopefully with some better temps they'll love it even more. :icon_cheers: 

I love this beer its about the only beer thus far I've brewed more than twice. Its a beer I can sit down to at pretty much any time and most of my mates love it too. I was very dubious about getting freinds to try my home brew but since so many of them have loved this beer I've been willing to get them to try some others (with mixed results I have to admit lol) 

I did my maiden brew on my new 70L SS Beer Belly Kettle on the weekend. I've done this beer a few times with my old dodgy 19L BigW 3V system so i know the beer (and love it!) and having done it this weekend on my new kettle BIAB style I'm looking forward to tasting the results.

Cheers!

:icon_offtopic: PS new kettle from BB is :icon_drool2: awesome! anyone thinking of buying brew gear should definately concider BB bling!


----------



## Hatchy

I meant to meantion earlier that I "accidentally" used 100g of amarillo in my version of this. The thought didn't even cross my mind that I could save some hops for a future brew. I'm not sure if dry hopping 40g may have hidden some of the undesirables from brewing too hot, I'm also not sure if it may have been going slightly over the top. It was great to have a mate who reckons he "doesn't like hoppy beers" telling me how great it was. I can't remember if I told him how much hoppy goodness went in. I reckon I kept quiet until he was on his 3rd glass before saying that I could probably find a less hoppy beer if he wanted 1.


----------



## MarkBastard

I kegged my first one on the weekend and dry hopped 20g. Tasting pretty good already I must say after probably 36 hours in the keg!


----------



## jetfoley

DrSmurto said:


> Replace the pilsner malt with 1.5kg of liquid extract and add that after the boil. Top up to 20L.
> 
> So just mash the munich/wheat and caramunich.
> 
> Rough calcs
> 1.50 kg Pale Liquid Extract
> 1.00 kg Munich I
> 1.00 kg Wheat Malt
> 0.20 kg Caramunich I
> 20.00 gm Amarillo [8.90 %] (60 min) Hops 23.6 IBU
> 15.00 gm Amarillo [8.90 %] (10 min) Hops 6.4 IBU
> 15.00 gm Amarillo [8.90 %] (5 min) Hops 3.5 IBU
> 
> Based on a 15L, 60 min boil.



Thanks smurto,

Any dry hopping at secondary? Also my fridge got turned off to accomodate the toaster and then I forgot to put it back... the brew ended up at 25c  it was only for a few hours as that morning it was at 18c but 12 hours later it had gotten up to 25c. Recon I've buggered it? I'll just have to down it quickly and start again


----------



## drsmurto

Dry hopping is good if you no chill or if you want loads of hop aroma.

I personally don't dry hop this beer as i find a 20g flameout addition more than adequate (yes, i am a chiller).

US05 is a very tolerant yeast. Dont worry about the temp increase. As long as it spends the majority of the time at 18C you'll be fine.


----------



## donburke

Dr Smurto, thank you for this recipe,

My first all grain stove top BIAB was done using your recipe, it was an 11 litre batch that looked like this ...

1.25kg JW Traditional
0.50kg JW Munich I
0.50kg JW Wheat Malt
0.15kg Caraaroma

10.0g Amarillo 60mins
7.5g Amarillo 10mins
7.5g Amarillo 5mins
7.5g Amarillo flameout

US05

It was absolutely fantastic, it was a very well balanced and flavoursome beer, it was very similar to JSGA except slightly darker, and hoppier

I think the caraaroma gave a beautiful golden colour to the beer, I'm guessing it may have ended up around 3 EBC darker than JSGA

I have since done it again using your Pils/Caramunich recipe and much prefer the ale malt version

The next one I do will be a 20 litre batch, adjusting the caraaroma with some lighter crystal to lighten the colour a little, and adjust the hops to be less in your nose and more in the body of the beer, this is what I will brew;

2.50kg JW Traditional
1.00kg JW Munich I
1.00kg JW Wheat Malt
0.15kg Caraaroma
0.15kg JW Caramalt

20g Amarillo 45mins
20g Amarillo 20mins
10g Amarillo 10mins
10g Amarillo 5mins

Based on my over gravity boil volume, I get 30IBU and 24EBC in Beersmith

I suppose what it is important here is that your recipe was the first AG I did and it turned out to be a fantastic beer, that good that I will now focus on only doing AG beers, so I thank you for opening my eyes


----------



## levin_ae92

If you look at the Recipe DB entry you will see that Dr Smurto somewhat agreed with you adjusting his hop schedule to 60, 20 and flame out, with no dry hopping, and that was his award winning recipe, so I'd go for that schedule (and indeed I am, my next brew will be [email protected], [email protected] and [email protected])


----------



## stuart13

Sampling the first bottle of my first batch of this now at two weeks. After tasting it while bottling it, I have been hanging out for the two weeks to pass. The amarillo is something else - there is almost a taste of passionfruit hanging around in the background. I imagine it will smooth out a little as time passes, but I'm not certain this batch will last all that long - right now I am kicking myself that I only stuck one in the fridge. I have another that I bottled last weekend, so it *may* have a chance to get a bit of age on it. I brewed it according to the (AG) instructions, and at this point can't see that I will be changing much about it - I might fiddle with the yeast, if at all. This one will become a regular at my place.

Simply an awesome beer - cheers Dr Smurto.


----------



## BjornJ

This recipe is brilliant, isn't it!

Two of the guys at the brew clubs always keep it on tap, it is a stable favourite I am told and liked by all.

I made one that I split in two, fermenting half with WLP001 liquid American Ale yeast and the other half with recultured Coopers Ale yeast from a couple of longnecks of Cooper Pale Ale.

Had a tasting today at work, all 4 of the guys thought the WLP001 version was better than the Coopers version. 
The hops seemed to stand out a bit more, more fresh and crisp while the version using Adelaide's finest seemed a bit more subdued, or bland even.

Personally I thought they tasted very similar, but from the others I gathered that was just my lacking taste ability  

Looking forward to how my Darker Golden Ale will be, thinking of doing this beer again for the the case swap in July,


Bjorn


----------



## stuart13

BjornJ said:


> Looking forward to how my Darker Golden Ale will be, thinking of doing this beer again for the the case swap in July,
> 
> 
> Bjorn



Sounds interesting - what, and how much of, did you add to achieve this? I would be interested to hear how this turns out...


----------



## BjornJ

Darkened it a little by using some roasted wheat.
Going for a darker color with still light body and hopefully the same hop profile as the original Dr.Smurto's.

I only made a half batch to test, so this is for 12.5 litres:

1.00 kg pale malt
0.30 kg wheat malt
0.20 kg munich malt
0.100 kg crystal malt
0.050 kg roasted wheat (EBC1300)
0.45 kg cane sugar

60 min: 10 gr of Pride Of Ringwood 10%
20 min: 7.5 gr of Amarillo 8.6%
0 min: 7.5 gr of Amarillo 8.6%
(+ 10 gr Amarillo after a week in the fermenter as hop tea, 2 min in hot water, then the tea in the fermenter)

Color: EBC 30.9 (amber ale)
Bittering: IBU 29.8 IBUs

OG was 10.040
FG was 1.008
Alc % before bottle carbonation: 4.2%


Dropped the temp to 1 degree now after 13 days in the fermenter, and did a hydrometer sample.
Smells nice and hoppy, the color is amber. Not as dark as I would have thought, maybe even add some roasted barley for the next one?

The hydrometer has dropped another 2 points the last 4 days of upping temp from 16 to 18 degrees and giving it a swirl, so that seemed to work well.

Running out of time, so thinking of just leaving it a couple of days at 1 degree and bottle straight from primary for once. Need to get it carbed up and tested so I can see what I want to change for the case swap  

thanks
Bjorn


----------



## MarkBastard

Just a heads up to anyone.

If you dry hop and think you may as well take the bag out when it's done and squeeze the hoppy beery liquid out into a glass and drink it, think again. :icon_vomit:


----------



## MarkBastard

I need a bit of help with this one.

This was my first ever AG beer and my first time using wheat malt.

I've done 3 different ales since.

My other ales all came out relatively clear with just a bit of chill haze at first which went away after two weeks in the keg. My second beer you could read a book through even though it's an amber ale.

But this Golden Ale is still very hazy, as hazy as the day I kegged it. I'm also not loving the flavour as much as other people seem to. The malt seems fine yet bland, and the hops seem to not be to my taste.

I was wondering what possible reasons there could be for my beer to be so hazy. I even left a half-drunk glass out over night and the next morning at room temperature it was still just as hazy. Would it have been a mash problem? Dry hopping maybe?


----------



## Phoney

Did you rack to secondary for 2 weeks? Did you add any finings?


----------



## MarkBastard

No secondary or finings, but I never do that and it's been 2 months in the keg and the haze is still there after warming the beer up.

So from what I understand it's not chill haze and it's not suspended yeast.

Dunno if it's a mash problem, like unconverted starches or something like that? Maybe I mashed too low or lost too much temperature over the mash period.


----------



## redlegger

Mark^Bastard said:


> No secondary or finings, but I never do that and it's been 2 months in the keg and the haze is still there after warming the beer up.
> 
> So from what I understand it's not chill haze and it's not suspended yeast.
> 
> Dunno if it's a mash problem, like unconverted starches or something like that? Maybe I mashed too low or lost too much temperature over the mash period.




Hey Mark, im definatley no expert , but this was also my first AG brew about a month ago, 

Before i kegged it i crash chilled and used gelatine as a fining in a cube ( i think i chilled it for about 48 hours from memory ) then i transferred it to the keg
Its been in the keg for two weeks now (and very nearly empty) And i have noticed that as time goes on the clearer it is getting. 
the first few glasses i poured where very hazy and you couldnt even see the shadow of your fingers thru the glass.... 
The glass that i had last night, well it was so clear i could watch the tele thru it.
As im not very experienced in any type of brewing, my guess is that its clearing is a combination of the gelatine and the cold conditioning that is occuring naturally in the keg??

This is just my experience and my observations, if i need to be corrected on anything, let me know! 

Cheers!


----------



## bconnery

Mark^Bastard said:


> I'm also not loving the flavour as much as other people seem to. The malt seems fine yet bland, and the hops seem to not be to my taste.



You might be one of the people, myself included, who find even the best made all amarillo beers to be not to their taste. 
I think Amarillo needs some backup hop wise. Great blended but not on its own for me. 

I've tested this theory with a couple of beers of my own and various ones and there's always an edge to the flavour that just doesn't sit well with me.


----------



## MarkBastard

bconnery said:


> You might be one of the people, myself included, who find even the best made all amarillo beers to be not to their taste.
> I think Amarillo needs some backup hop wise. Great blended but not on its own for me.
> 
> I've tested this theory with a couple of beers of my own and various ones and there's always an edge to the flavour that just doesn't sit well with me.



Yeah it almost seems to have home brand orange juice taste to it if that makes sense? Just a subtle bit of that flavour.

I didn't do myself any favours squeezing the dry hop bag into a glass and tasting it...


----------



## husky

Im looking on the grain and grape website for the grains to make this and cnt locate:

Weyermann Pale Wheat 

Weyermann Munich I (is this just pale munich?)

Anyone help out with a substitution from G&G?
cheers


----------



## drsmurto

husky said:


> Im looking on the grain and grape website for the grains to make this and cnt locate:
> 
> Weyermann Pale Wheat
> 
> Weyermann Munich I (is this just pale munich?)
> 
> Anyone help out with a substitution from G&G?
> cheers



Yes, munich 1 is also called pale or light munich. 

You can use any of the brands - dont feel you have to stick to Weyermann. 

Joe white wheat or powells wheat will be fine. I'm guessing weyerman weizen is actually pale wheat and weyermann weizen dunkel is dark wheat.....


----------



## MeLoveBeer

husky said:


> Im looking on the grain and grape website for the grains to make this and cnt locate:
> 
> Weyermann Pale Wheat
> 
> Weyermann Munich I (is this just pale munich?)
> 
> Anyone help out with a substitution from G&G?
> cheers



I brewed this 2 weeks ago with grains sourced from G&G. The grain bill ordered from G&G was as follows:

800g Weyermann Munich Light
250g Weyermann Cara Munich 1
800g Weyermann Cara Wheat
2400g Weyermann Pilsner

Not sure if its right, but the brew has turned out pretty well thus far.


----------



## stuart13

Drinking a bottle right now from a batch I put away about ten weeks ago. The hops have really smoothed out - this is one of the best beers I have made... Highly recommend it.


----------



## Dylo

I made a version of sorts of the 'Award winning GA' on the weekend. Thought it would be a good 2nd AG brew to do due to the high regards this recipe has received. Unfortunately i couldnt get any Munich so I had to substitute that with Vienna. Will be interesting as to how it comes out, or if anyone has an idea already of how it will be, i would be interested in knowing! (yes i'm impatient!) The rest of the recipe was as stated in the RecipeDB down to a tee.

Cheers,

Dylo


----------



## MarkBastard

This ended up tasting pretty good near the end of the keg which I polished off a week or two ago.

I think next time I'd not dry hop with Amarillo and I'd try and make the grain bill a bit more like JSGA.


----------



## juzz1981

Would this recipe still be ok if all the grain bill was subbed to joe white? 
Or would this deter too much from the original?


----------



## Mayor of Mildura

juzz1981 said:


> Would this recipe still be ok if all the grain bill was subbed to joe white?
> Or would this deter too much from the original?



Go for it! 

It looks as though the good doctor does this himself and has won awards doing so. 

from the recipe page: 

EDIT 12/10/08
My latest variation used JW trad and JW caramalt instead of Wey Pils and Wey Caramunich. Hops adjusted to 20 min and flame-out. No dry hopping. Scored 46/50 at ANAWBS 2008 and was best beer of show (bottle conditioned for 2 months).


----------



## spudfarmerboy

Dr Smurto,
what temperature should this ale be drank at?
Cheers


----------



## spudfarmerboy

Another question if I may Doctor,
I'm not sure about the hop additions. Is it 20g at 60 min, 20g at 20 min and 20g at flameout? Or is it 20g at 20 min and 20g at flameout?
Thank You.


----------



## under

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: 15 - Doc's Golden Ale
Brewer: Dazza
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Special/Best/Premium Bitter
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 27.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.049 SG
Estimated Color: 14.3 EBC
Estimated IBU: 30.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
2.76 kg Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EGrain 57.98 % 
0.95 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 19.96 % 
0.75 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (3.5 EBGrain 15.76 % 
0.30 kg Caramunich I (Weyermann) (100.5 EBC) Grain 6.30 % 
20.00 gm Centennial [9.70 %] (60 min) Hops 20.9 IBU 
17.00 gm Amarillo [8.20 %] (10 min) Hops 5.5 IBU 
17.00 gm Amarillo [8.20 %] (5 min) Hops 3.0 IBU 
17.00 gm Amarillo [8.20 %] (1 min) Hops 0.6 IBU 


Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 4.76 kg
----------------------------
ERROR - All Grain/Partial Mash recipe contains no mash steps

Notes:
------
Mash 66deg 90min
Pacman @ 16
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is how I do Docs Golden ale. Bloody quaffer


----------



## juzz1981

under,

would you be able to post your beersmith recipe for this, I am just finishing off my keg boiler and about to purchase some grains for my first AG brew and thought your recipe would be good to try as some members are shying away from amarillo as the only hop for this brew.

Or being my first AG should I just follow the recipe as written minus the dry hopping?


----------



## under

I just use centennial because it's higher AA and gives it something extra that I cant pick out.

Here it is - http://hotfile.com/dl/58024543/536e025/Golden_Ale.bsm.html


----------



## juzz1981

Thanks under,

With the mash in/out,
what are the water volumes and is the mash out at the same temp as mash in?(66c)


----------



## under

Firstly, its BIAB. For that grain bill (4.76Kg) I would mash in with 34.4L. End up with 23L into my cube. Mash 90min, boil for 75. Mash out 78.


----------



## darrenp

I made a 23 litre batch following Dr Smurto's recipe on Sunday as my first all grain.

Had made 3 batches using kits and was far from impressed with the process and the end product so was pretty keen to get into an all grain after spending a lot of time researching the process on this website.

Everything seems to be bubbling away pretty well and will stick with the 7 days primary and 7 days secondary. Stuffed up by taking an SG reading straight out of the primary. Now I'm looking at the nice wort stains on the outlet and no doubt there's some pretty good fermentation taking place in there as well. I reckon best bet now would be to siphon from primary into secondary when its time. How much should I leave behind? If I dont stir things up too much can I get away with just the sludge on the bottom?

Most importantly how long should I wait after bottling before trying? I've got a few swill drinking cynics ready to lay the boots in if this isn't up to scratch and I realise it will get better with age but don't want to wait too long.

What's the recommended method for priming this brew? Have used the Coopers lollies in my kit brews which is conveniant but with the amount of time and effort gone into this brew I want this step done as best I can. Thinking of batch priming but have read up on heaps of different ways this can be done. Just wondering how others bottling in stubbies have gone about priming or am I better off using long necks?


----------



## davo4772

Hello All,

Bottled this one a couple a weeks ago. BIAB, 15L batch.

I'm happy with it but turned out a little dry, that is, lacks maltiness.

What would cause this? My mash temp should have been 66 but I suspect my mash temp may have ended up being lower which would make the wort dryer?

I have one of those coffee thermometers which may not be as accurate as I hoped.

Cheers

David


edit: spelling.


----------



## felten

spudfarmerboy said:


> Another question if I may Doctor,
> I'm not sure about the hop additions. Is it 20g at 60 min, 20g at 20 min and 20g at flameout? Or is it 20g at 20 min and 20g at flameout?
> Thank You.


It depends on what you are using. If you're using a pre-bittered can then you won't need a 60m addition, you will need a 60m addition for a full extract batch though, which is what it says in on the recipe page.





> Stuffed up by taking an SG reading straight out of the primary. Now I'm looking at the nice wort stains on the outlet and no doubt there's some pretty good fermentation taking place in there as well.
> What's the recommended method for priming this brew? Have used the Coopers lollies in my kit brews which is conveniant but with the amount of time and effort gone into this brew I want this step done as best I can.


I'm not sure what you mean here, did you take a reading out of the tap or out of the fermenter lid? When I'm taking SG samples out of the tap I give it a spray with starsan afterwards, but just cleaning it up wouldn't hurt either.

If you're happy with the level of carbonation the carb drops give then I would just stick with them, if you aren't using all odd sized bottles then it shouldn't be a problem.
As for how long to wait, I would drink it straight after its fully carbonated. Hop aroma/flavour is going to be the first thing that fades over time.


----------



## spudfarmerboy

felten said:


> It depends on what you are using. If you're using a pre-bittered can then you won't need a 60m addition, you will need a 60m addition for a full extract batch though, which is what it says in on the recipe page.
> 
> 
> Hello Felten, it will be all grain.


----------



## raven19

Darrenp said:


> I reckon best bet now would be to siphon from primary into secondary when its time. How much should I leave behind? If I dont stir things up too much can I get away with just the sludge on the bottom?
> 
> Most importantly how long should I wait after bottling before trying? I've got a few swill drinking cynics ready to lay the boots in if this isn't up to scratch and I realise it will get better with age but don't want to wait too long.
> 
> What's the recommended method for priming this brew? Have used the Coopers lollies in my kit brews which is conveniant but with the amount of time and effort gone into this brew I want this step done as best I can. Thinking of batch priming but have read up on heaps of different ways this can be done. Just wondering how others bottling in stubbies have gone about priming or am I better off using long necks?



I would have a read of the beginner articles as per the links here: Linky

:icon_offtopic: Can you crash chill your brew once fermentation has finished? If so crash chill to around 1 degree - then rack to secondary after a week or so.

Leave the trub behind, bottle with about 70 - 90 grams of DME/sugar (check out the bulk priming calculators online - it really depends on how fizzy you want your beer).

Leave in the bottle for a month at least - and the longer you leave it the better it will be.

Does not matter which size bottles you use if bulk priming, but all the above is probably off topic as this is a recipe discussion thread.


----------



## raven19

david72 said:


> I'm happy with it but turned out a little dry, that is, lacks maltiness.
> 
> What would cause this? My mash temp should have been 66 but I suspect my mash temp may have ended up being lower which would make the wort dryer?



Yep, lower temps would result in a thinner beer.

Time to make another batch I reckon! :icon_cheers:


----------



## drsmurto

spudfarmerboy said:


> Dr Smurto,
> what temperature should this ale be drank at?
> Cheers



Personally, i drink my ales at 6-8C, some even warmer. That and i carb my beers lower than what most commercial beer drinkers are used to. 




spudfarmerboy said:


> Another question if I may Doctor,
> I'm not sure about the hop additions. Is it 20g at 60 min, 20g at 20 min and 20g at flameout? Or is it 20g at 20 min and 20g at flameout?
> Thank You.



If you are doing all grain, click on the link in my signature which leads to the beersmith file. If you dont have beersmsith PM me your email address and I'll send you a PDF version of the file - that offer is open to anyone.

The hop additions will depend on the AA% of the amarillo you are using. I generally aim for 30 IBU and tweak the 60 min addition accordingly. I keep the 20 and 0 min additions to 20g for a 20L batch. If you are no chilling then those familiar with that technique can offer their thoughts on adjusting the late additions. If you dont make adjustments the resulting IBU will be higher which will put the beer out of balance (it was designed with chilling in mind) and may even make it seem thinner due to the extra bitterness out-competing the malt.

As to the question relating to a thin body (David), the mash temp is crucial and you need a good quality, calibrated thermometer to measure the mash temp. So if you are finding the body too thin its likely you mashed a tad too low. 66-67 is where i mash this beer but i know my mash temp is 66-67 as i have a reliable thermometer. 

Spend a few $ of one from one of the sponsors if you are prepared to put holes in your mash tun, if not get a lab grade thermometer which is what i use. 


Darren - i take samples from the fermenter via the tap during fermentation. Its not an issue although to be on the safe side I'd be giving the tap a quick spray after drawing the sample with a no rinse sanitiser. 

Priming wise i prime low(er) than commercial drinkers like. JSGA itself is primed lower than most commercial Australian beers. But, you can prime this as normal. The beer that got the gong a few years ago had been bottle conditioned for 2-3 months from memory and was carbed at a rate aiming for 2.0 volumes which is in the same ballpark as you would find in commercial bottled english ales. Its not overly spritzy but its not flat either. A happy medium IMO.


----------



## midworld08

Done 3x 45l batches of this, and it just does not seem to last long enough. Nice Job Dr Smurto. Easy recipe, great results, need a few more like this.

Cheers bug Ears
Colin


----------



## Tom909

Dr Smurto - how many grams of sugar would you recommend for bulk priming this one?

Thanks.


----------



## drsmurto

Tom909 said:


> Dr Smurto - how many grams of sugar would you recommend for bulk priming this one?
> 
> Thanks.



I personally carb my beers lower than average so normally around 2 volumes of CO2. But i keg. I recall when brewing the kit version of this back a few years ago now i used to use 180g of dex in a 23L batch. According to beersmith that would be 2.8 volumes which is way too high for my taste - shows you how much my taste in beer has changed in 4 years.

Been a while since i bulk primed so i can only go on what beersmith tells me. 

For 20L, aiming for 2 volumes of CO2, use 90g of dextrose. You might find this a little low so perhaps aim for 2.2 volumes which requires 110g of dex. (That is assuming a temp of up to 20C during ferment).

Cheers
DrSmurto


----------



## Tom909

Thanks Dr.

I was thinking around 120g as i normally use 150g and wanted something a little less fizzy. Ill give the 110g a go and see how it is - I'm sure ill brew this beer more than once!


----------



## boriskane

hi, sorry for the novice questions, just thought this would be a more appropriate thread than beginners because its the actual recipe thread.

about to throw the extract version down and was just curious as to what i should use for the 60min hop boil (ie how much extract-wheat or light lme?). 

and would i be correct in assuming that i should steep the crystal and boil that for a period of time and then pour the contents into the fermenter? or pour contents into hop boil?

many thanks in advance!


----------



## juzz1981

Hi There, 

Could the Amarillo hops be substituted with cascade or centennial or would this deter too much from the desired flavour?


----------



## juzz1981

boris kane said:


> hi, sorry for the novice questions, just thought this would be a more appropriate thread than beginners because its the actual recipe thread.
> 
> about to throw the extract version down and was just curious as to what i should use for the 60min hop boil (ie how much extract-wheat or light lme?).
> 
> and would i be correct in assuming that i should steep the crystal and boil that for a period of time and then pour the contents into the fermenter? or pour contents into hop boil?
> 
> many thanks in advance!



I would say to get add say 700g of LME to 7lts of water or thereabouts.
Pour your steepings into the hop boil.


----------



## drsmurto

juzz1981 said:


> Hi There,
> 
> Could the Amarillo hops be substituted with cascade or centennial or would this deter too much from the desired flavour?



Do it! I use this grain bill to play around with other hops, last non amarillo batch was galaxy but have done cascade/chinook/centennial and combos of them.


----------



## BjornJ

DrSmurto said:


> Do it! I use this grain bill to play around with other hops, last non amarillo batch was galaxy but have done cascade/chinook/centennial and combos of them.




Interesting, how did the Galaxy GA turn out?

I have made your recipe a couple of times now and really like it, 
-with amarillo
-a little darker (roasted wheat) and Amarillo
-a little darker (roasted wheat) and Styrian Golding
-back to a little darker (roasted wheat) and Amarillo again this weekend.

The only beer I have had with Galaxy is the Stone & Wood Draught (as well as Brendan from the Northern Beaches' excellent clone).
Would be interesting to hear a little about this recipe with Galaxy and particularly how much late hopping you use with Galaxy.

thanks
Bjorn


----------



## chadjaja

I've just cleaned up after todays brew day and a combination of simcoe(bittering) Amarillo and will dry hop with Centennial!

I've made this with an all Cascade hop schedule and it turned out a top drop too.


----------



## drsmurto

Galaxy was sublime but i did make a few other changes  

Rye instead of wheat
Caraaroma instead of caramunich.

A tad darker than the norm but oh so tasty.

Hop schedule for a 20L batch was

5.00 gm Galaxy [15.00 %] (60 min) Hops 9.7 IBU 
20.00 gm Galaxy [15.00 %] (20 min) Hops 23.6 IBU 
30.00 gm Galaxy [15.00 %] (0 min) Hops


----------



## BjornJ

thanks doc,
sounds like another good one to try out.

will put it on the mental to-do list


----------



## seemax

You couldn't go too wrong using this grain bill and any of the american hop - cascade, cetennial, chinook - alone or in combinations. Then there's Citra... mmmmm.
d


juzz1981 said:


> Hi There,
> 
> Could the Amarillo hops be substituted with cascade or centennial or would this deter too much from the desired flavour?


----------



## theredone

2nd biab underway. added a 15 min proteen rest despite being told its a bit of a waiste in biab, figure it cant hurt too much so long as i can ramp temp up quick enough(dont think i did in my first attempt resulting in a beer 3points lower than expected, but anyways), only a 60min mash at 66 for this one? followed by a 10 min mashout at 78. well thats the plan. Ansel Adams Ale tomorrow and pretty sure i can fit 4 fermenters in my fridge, so maybe an ag attempt at a dark ale extract i made not long ago, on saterday. plenty of fun to be had

cheers for the recipe doc

red


----------



## flano

I did this one again today .

As I am sittng there watching it boil away I notice my scales are still reading 0.25.

After a quick look I see that in the confusion that is trying to work from home ..on a call to NT ..with a 1 year old crawling around ...and the Ashes on tv ..I'd forgot to add the caramunich.
still on the scales..

oh well.

I ended up doing a 90 min mash as well.

OG 1050

tasted pretty damn good staight from the pot.

Maybe I have made some sort of flukey great beer.


----------



## beerdrinkingbob

beernorks said:


> I did this one again today .
> 
> As I am sittng there watching it boil away I notice my scales are still reading 0.25.
> 
> After a quick look I see that in the confusion that is trying to work from home ..on a call to NT ..with a 1 year old crawling around ...and the Ashes on tv ..I'd forgot to add the caramunich.
> still on the scales..
> 
> oh well.
> 
> I ended up doing a 90 min mash as well.
> 
> OG 1050
> 
> tasted pretty damn good staight from the pot.
> 
> Maybe I have made some sort of flukey great beer.



I don't think you can mess this beer up, it will taste great!!


----------



## drsmurto

beernorks said:


> I did this one again today .
> 
> As I am sittng there watching it boil away I notice my scales are still reading 0.25.
> 
> After a quick look I see that in the confusion that is trying to work from home ..on a call to NT ..with a 1 year old crawling around ...and the Ashes on tv ..I'd forgot to add the caramunich.
> still on the scales..
> 
> oh well.
> 
> I ended up doing a 90 min mash as well.
> 
> OG 1050
> 
> tasted pretty damn good staight from the pot.
> 
> Maybe I have made some sort of flukey great beer.



You could steep the caramunich for 30 mins in 65C water (2 parts boiling, i part tap water), strain and then boil for 15 mins. Cool and add to the beer gently and prior to it reaching FG.

Or you could leave it and decide whether you like it dry which is how i suspect it will turn out with the bitterness slightly accentuated on the finish.


----------



## Fuggle

Hi Guys,

Total noob here,

I brewed this on christmas day, all was well. I mashed at the correct temps, but I didn't sparge, I forgot too, lol.

Boiled for 90 mins etc,

Anyway, siphoned into my carboy, gave it all a good shake for a few minutes, I don't have an aerator yet. Pitched the yeast. Wacked on an airlock with some starsan in it.

The next day all was good, a nice bubbling fermenter and a decent krausen. woohoo.

But now she's dead, no krausen, nothings doin' ???

I never took any gravity readings either. This was my first go at brewing and I just wanna see what happens..

Cheers guys


----------



## robv

Did this one yesterday, 1st brew in the new urn.
Smelt good going into the fermenter - great recipe.

Cheers


----------



## Filby

Hi!

Just brewed this recipe yesterday and got some funny numbers. 33.5lts preboil at corrected SG of 1.043. Using 4.25kg of grain all the efficiency calculators come out to the impossible result of around 110%. Postboil was 25lt at 1.053 which again seems to come out around 99%. Given that this is BIAB im highly skeptical of the results . Any ideas?


Cheers

Fil


----------



## Rodolphe01

ordered the grain for this beer from craftbrewer the other day, they milled it and bagged it and labelled the bag golden ale... i guess they see it come through often enough to recognise it straight away


----------



## Aus_Rider_22

Rudi 101 said:


> ordered the grain for this beer from craftbrewer the other day, they milled it and bagged it and labelled the bag golden ale... i guess they see it come through often enough to recognise it straight away



I often wondered if they would recognize some orders as specific recipes!

Going to do this recipe in the next week or 2. Have only done it once and it was my first recipe for extract. Now I have a few AG under my belt I am going to turn it out of the urn. :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## ArnieW

Brewed this for my New Years party (all grain) and it was such a hit it all went on the night. Even my Corona drinking friend who never touches anything else couldn't keep his hands off the tap. I think it will be a regular here in the forest.


----------



## ArnieW

Brewed this for my New Years party (all grain) and it was such a hit it all went on the night. Even my Corona drinking friend who never touches anything else couldn't keep his hands off the tap. I think it will be a regular here in the forest.


----------



## warra48

My next brew will be this one, but with all Cascade substituted for the Amarillo.

What water profile is suggested for this brew?
I brew with tank water, which by my estimation gives me almost a blank canvass. 
What additions can anyone suggest?

Apologies if this has been discussed earlier in this thread, but I'm not keen to scan 13 pages of this thread to see if this has been discussed previously

Thanks for any help.


----------



## sav

warra48 said:


> My next brew will be this one, but with all Cascade substituted for the Amarillo.
> 
> What water profile is suggested for this brew?
> I brew with tank water, which by my estimation gives me almost a blank canvass.
> What additions can anyone suggest?
> 
> Apologies if this has been discussed earlier in this thread, but I'm not keen to scan 13 pages of this thread to see if this has been discussed previously
> 
> Thanks for any help.



I would go a bit harder warra
sav


----------



## drsmurto

warra48 said:


> My next brew will be this one, but with all Cascade substituted for the Amarillo.
> 
> What water profile is suggested for this brew?
> I brew with tank water, which by my estimation gives me almost a blank canvass.
> What additions can anyone suggest?
> 
> Apologies if this has been discussed earlier in this thread, but I'm not keen to scan 13 pages of this thread to see if this has been discussed previously
> 
> Thanks for any help.



My additions to rainwater (assuming <0.1 ppm for all brewing salts as a base) are 10.0g CaSO4 and 3.0g CaCl2 per 35L of base water resulting in Ca 90, SO4 160, Cl 41 ppm pre-boil.

Cheers
DrSmurto

p.s. deleted last nights rant, broke my own rule about posting on forums whilst drunk


----------



## warra48

Thanks DrS.

And Sav, it will make it a bit harder.

All good. ^_^


----------



## robv

Hi All
Put this on tap today ,Fantastic - as good as if not better than the commercial version.
Thanks to the good Dr for an awesome recipe.


----------



## speedie

try brewing without all the worry of water compiss tion 
id bet you would know the differance brew 2 brew

speedie


----------



## warra48

speedie said:


> try brewing without all the worry of water compiss tion
> id bet you would know the differance brew 2 brew
> 
> speedie



If you'd read my post, you'd realise I now brew with tank water, so there are minimal to no salts in there.
That's why I asked the question.

I know how my local tap water is constituted, but it tastes horrible to drink, and I think must have some influence on my beers. That's why I've gone over to tank water.

Are you suggesting the tank water, which must be close to distilled or RO water, is suitable to brew all beers without some brewing salt additions?


----------



## scoot49

Hey Guys,
Forgive me if this has already been touched on, but have had a quick browse and can't see it....

In the recipe, you have:-

KIT VERSION
1 can Thomas Coopers Sparkling Ale
1 can Coopers Wheat Malt
250g Caramalt (or other light crystal)
15g Amarillo @ 15, 5 and dry hop.
Yeast - US05

Is this how I would do it without using hops etc?
If so, is this suitable for being bottled, or is it more suited for kegging?

Cheers in advance, really want to give this a crack


----------



## manticle

You still need hops (amarillo) for the kit version.

Bottling or kegging should both be fine - depends what you have available.


----------



## WeaselEstateBrewery

Have made this a lot of times, most recently with the ale malt and the 20 & 5 minute additions with no dry hopping. Very nice, smoother and less bitter than the "main" recipe.


----------



## drfad

Hi all,

Looking to do this recipe as a Kit and bits today with my first ever use of specialty grain but I think I may have got the wrong grain. I couldn't see Caramalt at the LHBS, so asked and was told the Coppertun Cracked Crystal grain is the same or close enough. Also, I'll be using my remaining Cascade instead of Amarillo. Does anyone know if this would work:

Coopers Sparkling Kit
Coopers Wheat Malt Extract can 
250 g Cracked Crystal grain
Cascade as per hop schedule in recipe

Or should I wait and try and get caramalt? Also, do I need to grind the grain finer somehow before I steep it.


----------



## beerdrinkingbob

drfad said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Looking to do this recipe as a Kit and bits today with my first ever use of specialty grain but I think I may have got the wrong grain. I couldn't see Caramalt at the LHBS, so asked and was told the Coppertun Cracked Crystal grain is the same or close enough. Also, I'll be using my remaining Cascade instead of Amarillo. Does anyone know if this would work:
> 
> Coopers Sparkling Kit
> Coopers Wheat Malt Extract can
> 250 g Cracked Crystal grain
> Cascade as per hop schedule in recipe
> 
> Or should I wait and try and get caramalt? Also, do I need to grind the grain finer somehow before I steep it.



You will be fine, Caramalt is just what JW call their light Crystal. Just steep it for half and hour of so and you should be in good shape.

It's a tasty brew and I'm sure you will love it! I just laid the AG version down again on Friday but replaced the hops with pearl for something different, smells great!!


----------



## drfad

beerdrinkingbob said:


> You will be fine, Caramalt is just what JW call their light Crystal. Just steep it for half and hour of so and you should be in good shape.
> 
> It's a tasty brew and I'm sure you will love it! I just laid the AG version down again on Friday but replaced the hops with pearl for something different, smells great!!




Excellent. Thank you for that. Wil I need to grind the grain somehow or is it fine as is? I've read that you get more sugars the finer you grind it


----------



## np1962

drfad said:


> Excellent. Thank you for that. Wil I need to grind the grain somehow or is it fine as is? I've read that you get more sugars the finer you grind it


You will need to crack the grain, don't make it too fine with loads of flour though. Makes it easier to remove the grain before you boil the liquid.
Cheers
Nige


----------



## warra48

Brewed this recently, and have just sampled the first couple of bottles. I'm impressed, and intend to brew this again soon.

Very good recipe, good flavour and easy body, nice mellow malt, balanced bittering with a lingering finish.

2400.00 gm Premium Pilsner (2.5 EBC) Grain 56.43 % 
825.00 gm Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 19.40 % 
778.00 gm Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) Grain 18.29 % 
250.00 gm Caramunich II (Weyermann) (124.1 EBC) Grain 5.88 % 
25.00 gm Cascade '10 [5.00 %] (Dry Hop 9 days) Hops - 
28.00 gm Cascade '07 [6.30 %] (60 min) Hops 20.7 IBU 
35.00 gm Cascade 09 [7.40 %] (10 min) Hops 11.0 IBU 
25.00 gm Cascade '10 [5.00 %] (5 min) Hops 2.9 IBU 
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Primary 3.0 days) Misc 
1 Pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [Starter 3000 ml] Yeast-Ale 

Mashed 65 min at 65.4C, boiled 75 minutes. 
OG 1.050, FG 1.010, 21 litres. 
Bottled and carbonated to 2.2 volumes.


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery

warra48 said:


> Brewed this recently, and have just sampled the first couple of bottles. I'm impressed, and intend to brew this again soon.
> 
> Very good recipe, good flavour and easy body, nice mellow malt, balanced bittering with a lingering finish.
> 
> 2400.00 gm Premium Pilsner (2.5 EBC) Grain 56.43 %
> 825.00 gm Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 19.40 %
> 778.00 gm Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) Grain 18.29 %
> 250.00 gm Caramunich II (Weyermann) (124.1 EBC) Grain 5.88 %
> 25.00 gm Cascade '10 [5.00 %] (Dry Hop 9 days) Hops -
> 28.00 gm Cascade '07 [6.30 %] (60 min) Hops 20.7 IBU
> 35.00 gm Cascade 09 [7.40 %] (10 min) Hops 11.0 IBU
> 25.00 gm Cascade '10 [5.00 %] (5 min) Hops 2.9 IBU
> 1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
> 1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Primary 3.0 days) Misc
> 1 Pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [Starter 3000 ml] Yeast-Ale
> 
> Mashed 65 min at 65.4C, boiled 75 minutes.
> OG 1.050, FG 1.010, 21 litres.
> Bottled and carbonated to 2.2 volumes.



+1 This is my first BIAB and it is great. Can't say anything else !


----------



## beermonster17

I used this recipe as my first all grain and i have to say it's one of the best beers i have tasted top marks ten stars! thanks,
beermonster17.


----------



## cwbrown07

Like many others, I used this recipie to crack my "AG (BIAB) Cherry" the other week. Was also my first attempt at milling my own grain. 

Given the limitations on space and equipment, I only made a 15l batch. Used both amarillo and centennial for hops (50/50 on all additions), but otherwise stayed true to the recipie

Hop additions were made at 60, 20 and flameout.

Forgot to put whirlfloc in, and also forgot to put chiller in to sanitise before end of boil. As the sink is not big enough to accomodate the brew pot, simply crossed my fingers and tipped the whole post-boil vol (11.5l) into the fermenter and topped up with cold water before chilling down to 18 in the ferementing fridge. 

Pretty happy with OG of 1.041 - was a little worried about this as didn't have a computer available when brewing to make any adjustments to wort depending upon my efficiency levels. 

Pitched US-05 and good fermentation got it down to 1.012 after 4-5 days. Planning on leaving it in the fermenter until next weekend to ensure as much trub drops out as possible before getting it into bottles. 

Tastes pretty good so far, and have learnt a bunch of things during my first AG effort. Can't wait for round two!

Thanks to Doc for the recipie and to AHB generally for inspiration, knowledge and (occasionally) very funny random banter


----------



## RobH

I am getting ready for a brew day this Saturday, & this recipe is looking very likly to be one I'll do.

I am not quite set up for full AG yet, but my partials are turning out nicely, so I was figuring the following partial based upon the original recipe in the DB & the kit version:

* Thomas Coopers Sparkling Ale (1.7kg)
* 0.8kg Pale Wheat
* 0.4kg Munich
* 0.25 Caramunich
* 1.0kg Pilsner

That makes up 2.45kg of grain ... as I normally use 2.5kg for my partial mashes I figured that looks right.
The hop schedule will be as per the recipe in the DB.

Does this look right for a partial version of this recipe?


----------



## drsmurto

RobH said:


> I am getting ready for a brew day this Saturday, & this recipe is looking very likly to be one I'll do.
> 
> I am not quite set up for full AG yet, but my partials are turning out nicely, so I was figuring the following partial based upon the original recipe in the DB & the kit version:
> 
> * Thomas Coopers Sparkling Ale (1.7kg)
> * 0.8kg Pale Wheat
> * 0.4kg Munich
> * 0.25 Caramunich
> * 1.0kg Pilsner
> 
> That makes up 2.45kg of grain ... as I normally use 2.5kg for my partial mashes I figured that looks right.
> The hop schedule will be as per the recipe in the DB.
> 
> Does this look right for a partial version of this recipe?



Ran this through beersmith and if you up the total target volume to 23L, do a full volume boil and add the extract 15 mins from the end you should hit the OG and IBU.


----------



## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_

I did a version of this about a month ago, and subbed the Amarillo for galaxy flowers. I played around with beersmith till i got the bitterness right, and its pretty drinkable, not over the top passionfruit like i have read about galaxy.


----------



## RobH

Thanks Doc ... I am putting in my grain/hops order to my LHBS now


----------



## RobH

Oh, I just had a thought (just after sealing the fermenter) .. .are the 0 min hops supposed to go in the fermenter?

PS: my OG was close to recipe @ 1050


----------



## Punkal

They can go in then but you will probably get better results if you put them in when you rack to secondary...

Edit: Some people find that some of the aroma is driven of during the initial stages of fermentation...


----------



## rotten

RobH said:


> Oh, I just had a thought (just after sealing the fermenter) .. .are the 0 min hops supposed to go in the fermenter?
> 
> PS: my OG was close to recipe @ 1050



0 mins are usually flameout additions. Hops into fermentor, eg after racking, are usually dry hop additions. If you don't rack you could add them to fermentor after say 5 days and leave for at least another two days before bottling-kegging.
Cheers


----------



## drsmurto

0 min additions are flameout additions in all my recipes unless the notes say otherwise.

There are 2 versions of this recipe if you read the notes down the bottom of the recipe in the recipeDB.

The original has 10 and 5 min additions and then the 0 min addition is a dry hop in secondary (or after fermentation is complete if you don't rack).

The 'award winning' version and the one i feel is better balanced has 20 and 0 min additions with no dry hopping. The 0 min addition in this case is a flameout addition.

As long as you chill the wort the flameout addition is more than enough to get a nice amarillo aroma. If you no chill then dry hopping may be necessary.


----------



## RobH

Ok, that's good then because what I did with the 0 min was add at flameout & then chilled using my immersion chiller.

Fermenters are now happily "blooping" away 

If I feel it needs more aroma after kegging, I'll think about throwing 15gms (pellets in a "sock") into the keg


----------



## rotten

Hey RobH, I'd do what do what drsmurto said B) 

should have looked back at the recipe again.


----------



## RobH

Yeah rotten - I know what you are talking about there (recipe specifies dry hop in secondary) ... I had alredy done the brew last night... but as he said, the award winning one didn't use dry hopping, just in at flameout & chilled - still providing a nice level of aroma ... as that is what I did then I am still optimistic for a great result


----------



## warra48

I fed some of these to my brother-in-law yesterday.

All the way down the glass he kept saying: Geez, this is a good beer.

Then he asked: Did you really brew this?

Of course, I had to modestly admit that I had indeed brewed this beer.

No glory to me, but all the kudos to DrSmurto.


----------



## AussieJosh

Ok im a little confused?...I have the grain for this and will be making on wed....
Is the award winning beer........hops........... 20g @ 60mins.......30g @ 20 mins..........then 15g......turn heat off untill cool enough for yeast?


----------



## drsmurto

AussieJosh said:


> Ok im a little confused?...I have the grain for this and will be making on wed....
> Is the award winning beer........hops........... 20g @ 60mins.......30g @ 20 mins..........then 15g......turn heat off untill cool enough for yeast?



Almost. Hop schedule is correct but the recipe assumes you are chillling the wort down using something other than nature once you turn the heat off.

If you are no chilling there are discussions about whether you need to adjust the hops to cube hops. 

If i was to no chill this recipe (and that will happen shortly after pigs have evolved, grown wings and learned how to fly) I would be skipping the flameout addition and either dry hopping or steeping some hops in boiled water and then straining into the fermenter after fermentation has finished.


----------



## AussieJosh

DrSmurto said:


> Almost. Hop schedule is correct but the recipe assumes you are chillling the wort down using something other than nature once you turn the heat off.
> 
> If you are no chilling there are discussions about whether you need to adjust the hops to cube hops.
> 
> If i was to no chill this recipe (and that will happen shortly after pigs have evolved, grown wings and learned how to fly) I would be skipping the flameout addition and either dry hopping or steeping some hops in boiled water and then straining into the fermenter after fermentation has finished.



Thanks DrSmurto

I will be chilling my pot down in the laundry sink with lots of ice water.


----------



## [email protected]

I had an award winning bottle of this last night, (as in the recipe DB it says Bottle Cond for 2 months)
Mine has been bottled for 2 months and about a week, i dont care what anyone says, it is definitely at it peak.
So tasty, to easy to drink.


----------



## AussieJosh

2 Months!!!? Well when the ferment is finished its going in the keg and im drinking it 2 days after that!


----------



## drsmurto

Beer4U said:


> I had an award winning bottle of this last night, (as in the recipe DB it says Bottle Cond for 2 months)
> Mine has been bottled for 2 months and about a week, i dont care what anyone says, it is definitely at it peak.
> So tasty, to easy to drink.



Glad to hear your patience was rewarded, i think this beer does get better with age, to a point. :icon_cheers:


----------



## Bomber1975

Okay bare with me for I think I am about to make an idiot of myself. I have been salivating reading 28, yep all 28 pages . But I am confused I have done some K & K and some Extract brews but I have never used Caralmalt as is used in the Recipe. I am going to have a go at making the kit version of this but after reading all the comments I still am not sure as to what I am meant to do with the Caramalt. I gather it is steeped and then boiled with the Kit wort and whilst doing this make my hop additions. But I did notice at one stage someone mentioned cracked Caramalt. Now does that mean when I buy the Caramalt it will already be cracked? and if not how would I go about cracking it (Mortar and pestle)? If someone could answer my questions or let me know in a "Caramalt for Dummies" like flow chart it would be greatly appreciated


----------



## waggastew

I made this recipe using a kits and bits method with some advice from Dr Smurto. In terms of the grain I bought the grain precracked from Craftbrewer (minimum 500g but thats cool, it is a handy malt to have). Here is the advice from the man himself:

"How you go about this depends on your pot size but my standard procedure back in the kit brewing days was to use a 6 pack esky to steep the grain in. If you use 2 parts boiling water to 1 part tap water you should get water with a temp of between 65-70C which is great for steeping grain in. Mix ~1L of this temp water with the crushed caramalt (or other crystal malt) and let steep for up to an hour. Drain through a colander and pout the grain back in the esky with another 1L of 65-70C water. Stir and drain straight away.

I used a large stockpot for brewing in back then, i think its 16L so i would then add the 2L of liquor from steeping the grain and top up with another 6L of boiling water. Add the can of coopers wheat malt and bring to the boil. Add 15g of amarillo and boil for 10 mins. Add another 15g of amarillo and boil for a further 5 mins. Turn off the heat. Add the can of sparkling ale and mix thoroughly. Cool this pot down, i found it was easiest to sit it in a sink of cold water. Strain into fermenter and top up to 20L (not 23L). Once the temp is below 22C add the yeast. Try to keep the temp between 18-20C ideally, up to 22C is OK. Leave it in the fermenter for at least 7 days if racking, 14 days if not. I dont dry hop anymore as i find the aroma is good without it."

Came out brilliantly!


----------



## Bomber1975

waggastew said:


> I made this recipe using a kits and bits method with some advice from Dr Smurto. In terms of the grain I bought the grain precracked from Craftbrewer (minimum 500g but thats cool, it is a handy malt to have). Here is the advice from the man himself:
> 
> "How you go about this depends on your pot size but my standard procedure back in the kit brewing days was to use a 6 pack esky to steep the grain in. If you use 2 parts boiling water to 1 part tap water you should get water with a temp of between 65-70C which is great for steeping grain in. Mix ~1L of this temp water with the crushed caramalt (or other crystal malt) and let steep for up to an hour. Drain through a colander and pout the grain back in the esky with another 1L of 65-70C water. Stir and drain straight away.
> 
> I used a large stockpot for brewing in back then, i think its 16L so i would then add the 2L of liquor from steeping the grain and top up with another 6L of boiling water. Add the can of coopers wheat malt and bring to the boil. Add 15g of amarillo and boil for 10 mins. Add another 15g of amarillo and boil for a further 5 mins. Turn off the heat. Add the can of sparkling ale and mix thoroughly. Cool this pot down, i found it was easiest to sit it in a sink of cold water. Strain into fermenter and top up to 20L (not 23L). Once the temp is below 22C add the yeast. Try to keep the temp between 18-20C ideally, up to 22C is OK. Leave it in the fermenter for at least 7 days if racking, 14 days if not. I dont dry hop anymore as i find the aroma is good without it."
> 
> Came out brilliantly!




Cheers thats exactly what I wanted to know.


----------



## RobH

RobH said:


> I am getting ready for a brew day this Saturday, & this recipe is looking very likly to be one I'll do.
> 
> I am not quite set up for full AG yet, but my partials are turning out nicely, so I was figuring the following partial based upon the original recipe in the DB & the kit version:
> 
> * Thomas Coopers Sparkling Ale (1.7kg)
> * 0.8kg Pale Wheat
> * 0.4kg Munich
> * 0.25 Caramunich
> * 1.0kg Pilsner
> 
> That makes up 2.45kg of grain ... as I normally use 2.5kg for my partial mashes I figured that looks right.
> The hop schedule will be as per the recipe in the DB.
> 
> Does this look right for a partial version of this recipe?




Just kegged this one 10 mins ago ... OG was 1050 & FG 1010 - so that's not too shabby! 

Whilst the aroma didn't have anywhere near the level of amarillo I was hoping for (aroma in the glass is almost neutral - after-taste/aroma is very mild) - it is nice and clean on the pallete, and has a hint of frutiness ... almost like a nice semillon.

Anyway, that is before it is carbed up and left to clear for a week or so ... I am sure I'll be sneaking a taste in now and again over the next week however


----------



## Hatchy

I did 3 kit batches of this & they were 3 of my better kit beers.

I wasn't planning on brewing an AG batch but I was low on ale malt & had heaps of pils so I figured I'd give it a shot.

I got a ******* cube infection in both cubes!

I assume that it was due to some sort of beer karma for no chilling one of Smurto's recipes, either that or the caked on goo in the ball valve that I found when I took it apart. Beer karma seems to be the more likely reason.

Smurto, you'll be glad to know that the cubes have recovered but if (when) I brew this again I'll make sure I chill it.


----------



## cwbrown07

Pretty happy with how this turned out, considering first time AG (BIAB) plus chilled it overnight in the fermenting fridge plus no whirlfloc plus tipped all of the hot and cold (if any...) break into the fermenter.

After two weeks in the fermenter and four in bottles at 18 degrees, as well as a couple of hours in the fridge to get to drinking temp, here 'tis in my new (not really style appropriate, but I like it!) beer glass:





Now for round 2 - thinking I might increase carbonation slightly and will also be looking to remember to sterilise my chiller to get it down to pitching temp a bit quicker this time round


----------



## philw

ok massively dumb question 


for the kit version 

how much water do you need to use for the boil for the hops??


----------



## Hatchy

Not a dumb question, I'm surprised you didn't get an answer sooner.

From my understanding, you want to boil as much as you can, I used to do about a 5L boil for kits. Use 100g of extract per litre of water I believe is a good rule of thumb.


----------



## Milky11111

@philw

Rule of thumb, use 5:1 water to grain ratio. So if the recipe says 250g Caramalt, mash in 1.25L of water, after your mash, boil the wort and add the hops as the schedule says.
Goodluck!


----------



## jusman

I apologise if this has already been answered, but way back towards the start of this thread, WYeast 1332 Northwest Ale was brought up - in regards to increasing the maltiness of this beer. Was wondering if anyone ever made DrSmurto's Golden Ale with WYeast 1332 or any other WYeast? If so, what were the results compared to using US-05?


----------



## squirt in the turns

jusman said:


> I apologise if this has already been answered, but way back towards the start of this thread, WYeast 1332 Northwest Ale was brought up - in regards to increasing the maltiness of this beer. Was wondering if anyone ever made DrSmurto's Golden Ale with WYeast 1332 or any other WYeast? If so, what were the results compared to using US-05?



I've got one of these in primary right now that I've bastardised by bittering with Magnum (didn't have enough Amarillo), no-chilling and using Wyeast 1272. Never used it before so I'm not sure what to expect.


----------



## drsmurto

I've brewed the golden ale with US-05, WY1056, WY1272, Pacman (cant be arsed finding the WY#), WY1187, WY1469 and WY1026.

US05/WY1056 is probably the simplest for new brewers, a great balance of malt and hops.

Pacman and WY1272 for those looking for something a bit more interesting.


----------



## Milky11111

I knocked up the K&K version of this and tried a bottle last night (8 days after bottling because I read Golden Ale is better fresh) although it wasn't as carbonated as I'd like yet, had a great creamy head that wouldn't go away and the taste was nothing short of perfect, far better than any commerical beer. Quite dangerous though, took a lot of willpower not to down schooner after schooner.

Top drop! Thanks for sharing your recipe! :icon_cheers:

I'm really going to have to knock up a small amount of the AG version.


----------



## TmC

Got my first ag tomorrow and am about to order the grain for this one soon, might use a different hop schedule as don't have enough Amarillo. :kooi:


----------



## Milky11111

If you about to order the grain why not just add on a pack of Amarillo with it?


----------



## philw

thanks for the helps peoples, 

going to have a crack at this in the not to distant future


----------



## TmC

Milky11111 said:


> If you about to order the grain why not just add on a pack of Amarillo with it?




Because i already have other hops that i want to use first.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

If I were mail ordering from CB, I'd just do all my hop ordering at the same time as grain, to save me any future issues. Freeze them, and use as needed.


----------



## TmC

I think i might just put it off for a week, and buy everything in one go. Cheers


----------



## peaky

I brewed a batch of this using Cascade instead of Amarillo (had half a kilo of Cascade in the freezer and no Amarillo). Turned out a very nice beer, just opened the first bottle before. Going to brew a batch next weekend using Amarillo though, looking forward to it. 


:icon_offtopic: The bottle I just opened is the first time I've used Polyclar. Man, that stuff's the goods!!


----------



## Hubert

I gave the kits and bits a crack yesterday. My first step towards AG. All went reasonably well with the make up, lost a couple of grains into the stockpot, thanks to a dodgy colander. Might have to invest in some voile cloth, heck might just have to go straight into BIAB for the next go  My OG was a little higher than the original receipe and it looked a little darker than a golden ale, will be interesting to see how it turns out.

In the fermenter now, just have to wait.


----------



## RobH

RobH said:


> I am getting ready for a brew day this Saturday, & this recipe is looking very likly to be one I'll do.
> 
> I am not quite set up for full AG yet, but my partials are turning out nicely, so I was figuring the following partial based upon the original recipe in the DB & the kit version:
> 
> * Thomas Coopers Sparkling Ale (1.7kg)
> * 0.8kg Pale Wheat
> * 0.4kg Munich
> * 0.25 Caramunich
> * 1.0kg Pilsner
> 
> That makes up 2.45kg of grain ... as I normally use 2.5kg for my partial mashes I figured that looks right.
> The hop schedule will be as per the recipe in the DB.
> 
> Does this look right for a partial version of this recipe?



Well 7 weeks later I have a nice clear & clean tasting beer in my keg (2 weeks in fermenter - 5 sitting in refrigerated keg).

I made a rookie mistake of skimming my boil after putting in the hop additions, so I think this greatly affected the hop aroma & flavour - however I was able to adjust that to my satisfaction by making up an amarillo hop tea & adding that to the fermenter - did that about a week and a half ago & the aroma/flavour has rounded out nicely.

I am now looking forward to setting myself up for AG (even if it starts as BIAB) and doing this recipe again!


----------



## Schober

Just brewed this as my first all-grain attempt. Absolutely fantastic 5-star brew.

It's probably written somewhere in the previous 29 pages of comments, however... to what extent are you folk carbonating at? I carbonated my bottles to the ESB english ale standard (1.3 volumes). I quite like the mouthfeel of this brew at low carbonation. What are your thoughts on a higher carbonation?

Cheers.


----------



## drsmurto

Schober said:


> Just brewed this as my first all-grain attempt. Absolutely fantastic 5-star brew.
> 
> It's probably written somewhere in the previous 29 pages of comments, however... to what extent are you folk carbonating at? I carbonated my bottles to the ESB english ale standard (1.3 volumes). I quite like the mouthfeel of this brew at low carbonation. What are your thoughts on a higher carbonation?
> 
> Cheers.



Nice! I love a beer at the lower end of carbonation. My keg system is set to run at 1.8 volumes, i tend to bottle around 2.0-2.2 for this beer on the rare occasion it gets bottled.


----------



## RobH

Sort of cross-linking topics here, but am commenting on my first AG attempt at this recipe... 



RobH said:


> My efforts on DrSmurtos GA recipe I am reserving my judgement on for now ... letting it clear up a bit - but my initial impressions of what I turned out was that my mash temp might have dropped a bit as the end product feels a bit thin and lacking in malt character ... the Amarillo hop flavour and aroma however is there at a level that I like.


 <--- first taste was 6 days ago

Couldn't help but pour a few glasses of these tonight ... once left for a week to settle in the keg I really notice the difference. In particular I am now recognising the finer malt flavours of the pilsner malt ... yes I think pilsner malt is going to become a favourite of mine ... reminds me of some nice German lagers & Oktoberfest.

My initial tasting as quoted above mentions lack of malt & thin-ness ... maybe that was due to yeast flavour masking the pilsner malt at the time, but now I have a wonderful flavour fuision of malt & hops that lingers after each mouthful.
:chug:


----------



## beerdrinkingbob

Made this one again myself last week, only thing I changed was the bitter hop addition from 60 minutes to 40 minutes to try and squeeze a bit more flavour out of it. The beer is still in the fermenter, but from what i can tell from the samples, the Amarillo flavour of this years crop is a bit of a let down, so I've dry hopped as well. 

Still a tasty beer but this crop lets it down a bit, might use centennial in it next time for something different :beerbang:


----------



## Spork

Put my order in with Ross @ CB, planning a 1/2 size stovetop BIAB of this recipe as my next brew.


----------



## String

This is my first kit and extract brew.
Having never smelt hops before I was surprised at the intensity of the Amarillo pellets! Even now, my kitchen fridge has a distinctly 'herbal' aroma to it and the strength of the hops smell coming out of the fermenter is also surprising.

Does the beer smell this strongly in the glass? I haven't added the final 15g of pellets yet, and I don't get this strength of aroma from JSGA. I want to stay with the receipe to see how it turns out but I'm starting to think I don't want much more aroma...

Put it down yesterday, using Nottingham as the HBS was out of US05, and it's bubbling away quite strongly at 20 degrees. (HBS said Nottingham at 20 degrees should do the same job as US05).


----------



## adniels3n

String - Being new to the game, I too was taken by the "in your face" nature of the aroma. It does die down, but is still pretty out there compared to a store bought ale. See it through, try to taste the other aspects of the beer as you drink it (bitterness, malt etc). 2 glasses in you'll be a convert.
Edit - My final hop addition was at flameout, so your secondary dry hop will differ from my experience.


----------



## drsmurto

String said:


> This is my first kit and extract brew.
> Having never smelt hops before I was surprised at the intensity of the Amarillo pellets! Even now, my kitchen fridge has a distinctly 'herbal' aroma to it and the strength of the hops smell coming out of the fermenter is also surprising.
> 
> Does the beer smell this strongly in the glass? I haven't added the final 15g of pellets yet, and I don't get this strength of aroma from JSGA. I want to stay with the receipe to see how it turns out but I'm starting to think I don't want much more aroma...
> 
> Put it down yesterday, using Nottingham as the HBS was out of US05, and it's bubbling away quite strongly at 20 degrees. (HBS said Nottingham at 20 degrees should do the same job as US05).



This recipe has more hop flavour than JSGA.

That said, if this is all new to you i would skip the dry hopping and see what you think. 

Nottinghman is not the same as US05. US05 highlights the hops, Nottingham mutes them.

This may work in your favour as it will produce a milder hop flavour.

Next time i would suggest US05 and see if you can pick the difference - the hops should stand out a bit more.


----------



## Wolfman

I have dry hopped in the primary fermenter is this OK?


----------



## RobH

That is a regular practice by many brewers ... so I'd say yes 
In the end it comes down to did it achieve a result that you like.


----------



## Wolfman

Cheers mate.


----------



## Hubert

Hubert said:


> I gave the kits and bits a crack yesterday. My first step towards AG. All went reasonably well with the make up, lost a couple of grains into the stockpot, thanks to a dodgy colander. Might have to invest in some voile cloth, heck might just have to go straight into BIAB for the next go  My OG was a little higher than the original receipe and it looked a little darker than a golden ale, will be interesting to see how it turns out.
> 
> In the fermenter now, just have to wait.



Tasted fantastic. Surprising how many mates come around and specifically asked for it! Very enjoyable beer, heading to the LHBS to try out an AG BIAB version today.

Only issue I had was that the keg leaked about 1/4 of its contents onto the bottom of the fridge. Damn seals!

Cheers.


----------



## String

String said:


> This is my first kit and extract brew.
> Having never smelt hops before I was surprised at the intensity of the Amarillo pellets! Even now, my kitchen fridge has a distinctly 'herbal' aroma to it and the strength of the hops smell coming out of the fermenter is also surprising.
> 
> Does the beer smell this strongly in the glass? I haven't added the final 15g of pellets yet, and I don't get this strength of aroma from JSGA. I want to stay with the receipe to see how it turns out but I'm starting to think I don't want much more aroma...
> 
> Put it down yesterday, using Nottingham as the HBS was out of US05, and it's bubbling away quite strongly at 20 degrees. (HBS said Nottingham at 20 degrees should do the same job as US05).



Thanks for all the advice on this, the hops aroma almost disappeared over the first 5 days or so. So I stayed true to the receipe and added the final 15g after 5 days for dry hopping.

It's still ticking away slowly at 20 degrees and I can't wait to try it! (neither can my neighbours and friends who helped my destroy my first keg of basic Coopers Lager, it didn't even last 10 days in the keg)


----------



## Salt

Put the extract version of this drop down on Sunday...

Not really bubbling away, but I think that my ferm has a seal issue, as I checked the SG and its dropped from 1.048 to just over 1.03 so fermenting is underway. Was concerned as its getting pretty cold here in NZ, and Im limited with my temp controls.

In any case Im going to dry hop this batch (only my second proper crack at homebrewing, and first go at dry hopping), with 15g each of Amarillo and Centennial. 

Question; should I just chuck in the pellets, or use a Hop sock? I didnt strain this brew (or Centenarillo Ale) so not overly concerned with Hop matter as it all sinks out. When is it best to dry hop? From my readings, its best after fermentation is pretty much complete...around a week im guessing. Plan to leave in primary for 2 weeks. No secondary, so wont be dry hopping that way. Any tips, or just chuck em in?

Chur


----------



## drsmurto

Salt said:


> Put the extract version of this drop down on Sunday...
> 
> Not really bubbling away, but I think that my ferm has a seal issue, as I checked the SG and its dropped from 1.048 to just over 1.03 so fermenting is underway. Was concerned as its getting pretty cold here in NZ, and Im limited with my temp controls.
> 
> In any case Im going to dry hop this batch (only my second proper crack at homebrewing, and first go at dry hopping), with 15g each of Amarillo and Centennial.
> 
> Question; should I just chuck in the pellets, or use a Hop sock? I didnt strain this brew (or Centenarillo Ale) so not overly concerned with Hop matter as it all sinks out. When is it best to dry hop? From my readings, its best after fermentation is pretty much complete...around a week im guessing. Plan to leave in primary for 2 weeks. No secondary, so wont be dry hopping that way. Any tips, or just chuck em in?
> 
> Chur



Hi mate

Wait until fermentation is finished or very close to it then chuck the hops in. They'll sink to the bottom anyway. 

What temp are you fermenting at? I find US05 still ticks along at as low as 15C.

Cheers
DrSmurto


----------



## Salt

DrSmurto said:


> Hi mate
> 
> Wait until fermentation is finished or very close to it then chuck the hops in. They'll sink to the bottom anyway.
> 
> What temp are you fermenting at? I find US05 still ticks along at as low as 15C.
> 
> Cheers
> DrSmurto




Sounds good, will do...
Ferm is around 18deg, but cools down a bit over night. I know change in temp is not idea, but not a hell of a lot I can do with whats on hand. 

Cheers


----------



## spox

Going to try the Kits & bits version below. My only change was Morgans wheat malt as i couldnt get coopers. My largest stockpot is only 7.5L or so, guessing i could get a 5L boil from it after steeping the grain. Would this create any issues for boiling of the hops in such a small volume of water? 



waggastew said:


> "How you go about this depends on your pot size but my standard procedure back in the kit brewing days was to use a 6 pack esky to steep the grain in. If you use 2 parts boiling water to 1 part tap water you should get water with a temp of between 65-70C which is great for steeping grain in. Mix ~1L of this temp water with the crushed caramalt (or other crystal malt) and let steep for up to an hour. Drain through a colander and pout the grain back in the esky with another 1L of 65-70C water. Stir and drain straight away.
> 
> I used a large stockpot for brewing in back then, i think its 16L so i would then add the 2L of liquor from steeping the grain and top up with another 6L of boiling water. Add the can of coopers wheat malt and bring to the boil. Add 15g of amarillo and boil for 10 mins. Add another 15g of amarillo and boil for a further 5 mins. Turn off the heat. Add the can of sparkling ale and mix thoroughly. Cool this pot down, i found it was easiest to sit it in a sink of cold water. Strain into fermenter and top up to 20L (not 23L). Once the temp is below 22C add the yeast. Try to keep the temp between 18-20C ideally, up to 22C is OK. Leave it in the fermenter for at least 7 days if racking, 14 days if not. I dont dry hop anymore as i find the aroma is good without it."


----------



## drsmurto

spox said:


> Going to try the Kits & bits version below. My only change was Morgans wheat malt as i couldnt get coopers. My largest stockpot is only 7.5L or so, guessing i could get a 5L boil from it after steeping the grain. Would this create any issues for boiling of the hops in such a small volume of water?



5L boil will be fine. :icon_cheers:


----------



## spox

DrSmurto said:


> 5L boil will be fine. :icon_cheers:



Cheers! its my 2nd beer, should be an interesting experiment!


----------



## drsmurto

Just doughed in a golden ale that was almost the original to the letter  

Only difference is i am using magnum to bitter and saving up the amarillo for a big flameout addition.

Double batch for a mates party - he requested the golden ale. 

To feed my rye addiction given this is the first beer i have brewed in months that hasn't got any rye in it i am making a few loaves of rye sourdough. :wub:


----------



## ploto

I'm drinking the kit version of this, now three weeks in the bottle and starting to settle down. I did a slightly larger batch (25l) and used 20g additions instead of 15. It's very nice - certainly a bit fresher than the JSGG on tap at my local when they haven't cleaned the beer lines in a while... :angry: - but still has a bit of a kit taste to it, though I expect that will mellow in time. Two months in the bottle seems to be about the best drinking time for most of the kit-based APA-style beers I've made. Might do a full extract version if I can tear myself away from my current obsession with NZ hops, but I suspect that this will be at the top of the list when I try my hand at ag biab


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

ploto said:


> I'm drinking the kit version of this, now three weeks in the bottle and starting to settle down. I did a slightly larger batch (25l) and used 20g additions instead of 15. It's very nice - certainly a bit fresher than the JSGG on tap at my local when they haven't cleaned the beer lines in a while... :angry: - but still has a bit of a kit taste to it, though I expect that will mellow in time. Two months in the bottle seems to be about the best drinking time for most of the kit-based APA-style beers I've made. Might do a full extract version if I can tear myself away from my current obsession with NZ hops, but I suspect that this will be at the top of the list when I try my hand at ag biab



You'll find that it settles down quicker when you do it AG. The good thing about APA IMO is that they drink really nicely young. You get that really flavourful hop taste. Having to wait for the kit taste to settle kinda kills the hops a little, which is a shame, because IMO an APA is supposed to be drunk quickly, when it's punchy.


----------



## ploto

yes I've learnt that, I did the LCPA kit copy which was very nice, but after 3 months the flavour started to disappear. Shame about the few swing-top bottles of this I put away thinking it would age nicely over time... should have saved them for the stout... ah well, they're going in the fridge now!


----------



## mikeintmba

I decided to give this recipe a try but have made a little mistake. I ordered the grain from Craftbrewer and got them to mill and mix the Caramunich and Munich malts together and I will mill the other grains because I purchased more than required for this recipe. Only problem is I misread the recipe and ordered 1.6kg of both Caramunich and Munich (doing a double batch) but realise now the recipe calls for only 0.25kg of Caramunich (0.5kg for double batch) so I am wondering what effect this will have on the final product. So instead of 1.6kg of munich and 0.5kg of caramunich I have 1.6kg of both grains milled and mixed together. My plan is to just go ahead and make the beer and see what happens. Any comments?


----------



## beerdrinkingbob

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> You'll find that it settles down quicker when you do it AG. The good thing about APA IMO is that they drink really nicely young. You get that really flavourful hop taste. Having to wait for the kit taste to settle kinda kills the hops a little, which is a shame, because IMO an APA is supposed to be drunk quickly, when it's punchy.




Agreed Goomba, recently did another one of these and had a bottle at 10 days :icon_drool2: bloody awesome!! god i love winter and fermentation control!! thank god i will have a ferment fridge in the new place in a couple of months, summer will be a plus not a minus for my beers!!


----------



## Brad Churchill

G'day mate.

Seeing as the original recipe uses 6% crystal and you are using more than three times this amount making it more than 20% I don't think I would just go ahead a make it. 
Remember Caramunich is a crystal malt and 10% is the normal recommended upper limit for this type of malt.

This is what I would probably do. If you look at the bag of milled grain and it is all thoroughly mixed together I would just use around a third of the bag for this brew and assume that you are taking equal quantities of each grain. I would then add another kg or so of your base malt to make up the difference.

Okay so by doing this you wont have as much munich in your brew and you can't be sure exactly how much munich and caramunich is going into the brew but you will still end up with a tasty beer and it is I feel a good way to solve the little stuff up.  

It may also pay to drop off 50g or so of the wheat and make this up with base malt as well now that you don't have as much munich in there.

Anyway that's my thoughts. Someone might suggest something else but good luck with it mate.

Cheers
Brad 



mikelikesbeer said:


> I decided to give this recipe a try but have made a little mistake. I ordered the grain from Craftbrewer and got them to mill and mix the Caramunich and Munich malts together and I will mill the other grains because I purchased more than required for this recipe. Only problem is I misread the recipe and ordered 1.6kg of both Caramunich and Munich (doing a double batch) but realise now the recipe calls for only 0.25kg of Caramunich (0.5kg for double batch) so I am wondering what effect this will have on the final product. So instead of 1.6kg of munich and 0.5kg of caramunich I have 1.6kg of both grains milled and mixed together. My plan is to just go ahead and make the beer and see what happens. Any comments?


----------



## mikeintmba

Brad your suggestion makes sense to me. Thinking about it I might just use half of the mixed grain which will be a compromise that should make a reasonable beer. Thanks for the idea.


----------



## Hinji

Was extremely impatient and had to try my Smurto's GA that had only been bottled for four days. Flat as two peas on a breadboard, but still very tasty. My first AG beer and a very nice one to start with.
Cheers!


----------



## jakethedog

Had my first Dr Smurto's GA after bottling 2 weeks ago. Wow!!! Very tasty and hoppy. My 3rd all grain BIAB. The taste of all grain is sooooo much better than kits. I can't believe it tastes so good after 2 weeks. If anyone has not brewed this get on to it!!!!


----------



## saintbanger

Same here jake, my first BIAB was Dr.Smurtos which is drinking now from the keg. Thanks again to the inventors of BIAB so much better than the kits I have been doing for years. Done 4 since which are cubbed or fermenting. Going to try the Dr.s again next with a different yeast. My only problem is it tastes so much better that its nearly empty already after kegging on Monday.


----------



## punkin

Joining the list of those having a swing at this one today. It's my second ever allgrain and although i bought lots of amarillo down at Marks Home Brew for this the other day, i bought only 2 kilos of caramunich 2.

I didn't want to use it all in one 44l batch so i've juggled the grain around to suit what i have on hand. Hope it still works out ok, and if i like it, i'll get a sack of the other grain so i can try the original recipe.

Oh, i bumped the base malt up a little too to increase the abv, i like a slightly stronger beer.

This should work, yes?



*DrSmurtos golden ale revised* (Special/Best/Premium Bitter)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.052 (P): 12.9
Final Gravity (FG): 1.013 (P): 3.3
Alcohol (ABV): 5.11 %
Colour (SRM): 6.8 (EBC): 13.4
Bitterness (IBU): 31.6 (Average)

66.67% Pilsner
14.29% Wheat Malt
9.52% Caramalt
9.52% Munich II

0.9 g/L Amarillo (8.2% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
1 g/L Amarillo (8.2% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil)
1 g/L Amarillo (8.2% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil)


Single step Infusion at 66C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 20C with 


Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*


----------



## drsmurto

The original recipe is loosely 55% pils or (ale malt), 20% munich, 20% wheat and 5% crystal.

9.5% caramalt is far too much in my opinion, I'd cut that back to 5%. 

Is the munich in your recipe munich, or caramunich? 2 very different beasts.


----------



## punkin

DrSmurto said:


> The original recipe is loosely 55% pils or (ale malt), 20% munich, 20% wheat and 5% crystal.
> 
> 9.5% caramalt is far too much in my opinion, I'd cut that back to 5%.
> 
> Is the munich in your recipe munich, or caramunich? 2 very different beasts.



Sorry, yes it's caramunich 11. I'm fairly sure that's what i bought. Grains already mixed, so i'll just have to cross my fingers and hope it's drinkable. Can't be any worse than some of the kits i did 25 years ago....

Had to hold your nose to drink some of them  


I will adjust my note for next time though, and swap out the caramalt for some more wheat.

Thanks for the advice, i appreciatte it. :super:


Different beasts alright, that gets the colour to 10.6...does that seem ok?


----------



## String

Fresh out of the Keg (kit and extract version)
A little bit of bitterness at the back of the throat during the first glass, which I put down to the Sparkling Ale kit used, otherwise very nice.

Looking forward to the all grain version from my 19 litre Big W pot.
Thanks Doc!


----------



## spox

been 7 days since i banged this one in the fermenter. gravitys down to 1012. Just threw in my dry hops. 1 week to go before bottling. 

im a bit shocked & amazed to how different the krausen on this was compared to my 1st batch with the default coopers lager + be1 + coopers yeast. it was a giant foaming monster, where as this one was a thin layer of bubbles with what im guessing was hop scum.


----------



## drsmurto

DrSmurto said:


> Just doughed in a golden ale that was almost the original to the letter
> 
> Only difference is i am using magnum to bitter and saving up the amarillo for a big flameout addition.
> 
> Double batch for a mates party - he requested the golden ale.



Kegged this last night after 10 days primary and the rest ccing. Force carbed it and was drinking it an hour later.

Sometimes you forget why you liked a recipe in the first place. I have bastardised this so much that the beers i brew that i call golden ales have very little resemblance to the original. Now i am drinking the original i can safely say I still love amarillo :drinks: 

This will be on tap on Saturday at the mates party to go with an entire lamb on a spit. 

Might have to 'monitor the carbonation levels' during the week before handing over the kegs :icon_drunk:


----------



## Mikedub

DrSmurto, raise your bat to the pavilion Sir, just voted, bringing a century of votes for your fine ale, 
well played ol chap


----------



## raven19

Another really nice Smurto brew is his Alt. 

Still time to brew this for enjoyment at the end of winter:

Alt Linky

(looks like he had moved to 101* now).


----------



## felon

I'm 3 weeks into your recipe but subbed the Amarillo for Cascade. I must say I prefer the Amarillo version :icon_drool2:


----------



## 3GumsBrewing

Good lord Smurt's, this brew is a cracker. 
First time making a brew from the recipe db.
Made a slight variation of the original, due to available ingredients - Vienna instead of Munich, Galena at 60 min due to making a 60l batch - more economical.
But damn it is a great drop, really really great.

Thanks again
DK


----------



## komodo

Still loving this drop. I follow original recipe as well as possible most of the time.


----------



## robv

Just kegged my latest batch - I always stick to the original recipe.

The original is on the left - eveyone preferred the home brewed version :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## drsmurto

Robv said:


> Just kegged my latest batch - I always stick to the original recipe.
> 
> The original is on the left - eveyone preferred the home brewed version :icon_chickcheers:
> 
> View attachment 47390



Went to the 1st birthday party yesterday that i had supplied the golden ale for.

Received a lot of positive feedback and the end result (empty kegs) spoke for itself.

Another batch of satisfied customers. :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## flano

I used Saaz hops last time and it came out great as well.


----------



## Stormahead

+1 

In its first week in the fermenter. High hopes since my first attempt was lost to infection.

Started off way too high at 29 initially (plugged the heat mat into the wrong socket on the temp controller) but now down to 18C


----------



## String

Just about to put the order in for my first All grain version of this.
I can't find any JW grain on Beerbelly or BrewAdelaide's sites, and wanted to try the award winning version.
Did they change the name of the grain?


----------



## Mayor of Mildura

String said:


> Just about to put the order in for my first All grain version of this.
> I can't find any JW grain on Beerbelly or BrewAdelaide's sites, and wanted to try the award winning version.
> Did they change the name of the grain?


JW grain is available from grain and grape. 

Or use Barrett Burston ale malt from Nige. The results will be very similar.


----------



## BakeryHill

DrSmurto said:


> Here is the beersmith file. Glad to hear people are enjoying this beer.
> 
> View attachment 19273


I'm new to all this but I can definitely see the use and assistance of BeerSmith. Just downloaded version 2 for Mac, now have to learn how to drive it for my 9L BIAB batches.


----------



## spox

well mine (extract version) is now in the keg & being consumed quickly! Only prob is my keg seems to have a slow leak as over the space of a week the intial fizz from the force carb i did back on 7th has decreased a bit & after about 4-5 beers im having to top up the co2 in the keg to keep pouring (drops from about 22psi to <5psi & no beer comes out). Guessing there's no issues with force carbing it again?

this turned out tasty as! i was well impressed when my mates started getting stuck in & said how good it was! 

thanks DrSmurto!


----------



## Malted

spox said:


> well mine (extract version) is now in the keg & being consumed quickly! Only prob is my keg seems to have a slow leak as over the space of a week the intial fizz from the force carb i did back on 7th has decreased a bit & after about 4-5 beers im having to top up the co2 in the keg to keep pouring (drops from about 22psi to <5psi & no beer comes out). Guessing there's no issues with force carbing it again?
> 
> this turned out tasty as! i was well impressed when my mates started getting stuck in & said how good it was!
> 
> thanks DrSmurto!



CO2 is used for two main purposes (1) Carbonating and (2) Serving. Force carbing is used to add fizz to the beer and then you use another amount of CO2 to push it out of the keg into the glass. If you don't use Co2 to push it out of the keg, then the gas in the beer (fizz) has to leave the beer to push the beer out, eventually there is not enough fizz to push the beer out. You are using the gas for only one of the above reasons - you need both.

Most (tightarse) folks force carb the beer and leave the gas turned on when they are drinking and only turn it off when they are not drinking it. Some folks just leave the gas turned on all the time. Force carbing works best when the beer is cold. The other option is to turn the gas on to serving pressure and leave it alone in the fridge for several days and you can be assured it will not be over carbed. Sounds like you need to do some more reading, try these:
Ross Method of Force Carbing
Flat beer - under carbing or overcarbing
Balancing a draught system

Having said that, leaving the gas turned off limits your mates to drinking only 5-6 glasses of your beer!


----------



## Wolfman

Looking at doing this famous recipe with a larger yeast. What do you people think?


----------



## drsmurto

shan0066 said:


> Looking at doing this famous recipe with a larger yeast. What do you people think?



I would expect given lagers take longer to ferment and condition that the amarillo flavour and aroma will be greatly reduced.

I personally wouldn't.

Is temperature the reason you are thinking of using a lager yeast?


----------



## Wolfman

The only reason I was thinking this is because I got a heap of larger yeast in the fridge. An just wanted to experiment a little. 

Cheers

Dr


----------



## adz1179

Hi All,

Having a second crack at this gem, but the LHBS is out of a few things... they have offered:

Pale Ale Malt (Bairds) 5 ebc - 2.7kg
Munich I (Wey) 15ebc - 0.90kg
Wheat Malt (Wey) 2.4ebc - 0.90kg
Crystal Pale (Bairds) 95ebc - 0.285kg

The weights are from the biab spreadsheet which is scalled to my equipment - going for 20lt into the fermentor.

Anyone see a problem with this?

Cheers,
Adz


----------



## drsmurto

adz1179 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Having a second crack at this gem, but the LHBS is out of a few things... they have offered:
> 
> Pale Ale Malt (Bairds) 5 ebc - 2.7kg
> Munich I (Wey) 15ebc - 0.90kg
> Wheat Malt (Wey) 2.4ebc - 0.90kg
> Crystal Pale (Bairds) 95ebc - 0.285kg
> 
> The weights are from the biab spreadsheet which is scalled to my equipment - going for 20lt into the fermentor.
> 
> Anyone see a problem with this?
> 
> Cheers,
> Adz



Looks fine to me Adz


----------



## drsmurto

Brewed another double batch of this on Wednesday.

Same bunch of non-homebrewers that I brewed the last batch for, this time for our annual camping trip.

At the 'planning' meeting at my place last Friday night the lads confirmed this beer was required as always. 2 kegs of GA plus a keg of Landlord (it was on tap)

Used simpsons dark crystal this time, bittered with magnum and 1g/L of amarillo at 15 and 0.

Down to my last 50g of amarillo


----------



## mattyoz

great brew! 

did it a couple weeks ago, keeged it on sunday

drinking it now, magic!!!

:beer:


----------



## stux

My Caramunich arrived from CraftBrewer today so I'll be putting down my first batch of this famous brew over the long weekend )


----------



## grod5

Brewed this a month ago and poured my first glass. I'm so happy with the result the keg wont last long. I did ferment with a repitch of Wyeast Danish Lager just because of the temps at the time. Thanks Dr Smurto for sharing.

daniel


----------



## capsicum

Bought an urn off a guy today, he told me that this is the best beer he's ever tasted... Got some in the fermenter now!


----------



## taztiger

Hi folks
Keen to have a crack at this recipe but just need some clarification on the hops

KIT VERSION
1 can Thomas Coopers Sparkling Ale
1 can Coopers Wheat Malt
250g Caramalt (or other light crystal)
15g Amarillo @ 15, 5 and dry hop.
Yeast - US05

*If doing full extract, replace the can of Sparkling Ale with a can of unhopped light malt extract. Add a 60 min bittering addition of 20g of Amarillo.

Has the thinking changed on the timing for this recipe as well as the original AG recipe. Bit confused after reading all these pages :blink: .
So for the full extract recipe hops should be 20g @ 60mins.......30g @ 20 mins..........then [email protected]? :unsure: 
cheers
Taz


----------



## DU99

Extract version is my next attempt

i use THIS spreadsheet and have version 4 which contains the extract recipe


----------



## humulus

Dr S, Ive got some Simpsons imperial ale malt,could i sub this instead of JW ale malt,and have you used any English noble hops in place of the U.S. ones
Cheers Glenn


----------



## taztiger

Thanks mate. That will be great help
taz


----------



## drsmurto

taztiger said:


> Hi folks
> Keen to have a crack at this recipe but just need some clarification on the hops
> 
> KIT VERSION
> 1 can Thomas Coopers Sparkling Ale
> 1 can Coopers Wheat Malt
> 250g Caramalt (or other light crystal)
> 15g Amarillo @ 15, 5 and dry hop.
> Yeast - US05
> 
> *If doing full extract, replace the can of Sparkling Ale with a can of unhopped light malt extract. Add a 60 min bittering addition of 20g of Amarillo.
> 
> Has the thinking changed on the timing for this recipe as well as the original AG recipe. Bit confused after reading all these pages :blink: .
> So for the full extract recipe hops should be 20g @ 60mins.......30g @ 20 mins..........then [email protected]? :unsure:
> cheers
> Taz



There are a few hopping schedules in the discussion thread. If doing full extract/partial or AG you really need to calculate the bitterness which will depend on the AA% of the hops used. Beersmith works well for extract, mash brewing.

My preference is for the 60/20/0 min additions these days. For a 20L batch is would use 20g @ 20 mins and 20+g @ 0 mins. Adjust the 60 min addition to keep total IBU to ~30.




humulus said:


> Dr S, Ive got some Simpsons imperial ale malt,could i sub this instead of JW ale malt,and have you used any English noble hops in place of the U.S. ones
> Cheers Glenn



I've used styrian goldings in a sort of GA before. Never used Simpsons Imperial malt so can't comment. 

If i was to use english ale malt and english hops i would brew an english ale such as my Landlord :icon_cheers:


----------



## humulus

DrSmurto said:


> There are a few hopping schedules in the discussion thread. If doing full extract/partial or AG you really need to calculate the bitterness which will depend on the AA% of the hops used. Beersmith works well for extract, mash brewing.
> 
> My preference is for the 60/20/0 min additions these days. For a 20L batch is would use 20g @ 20 mins and 20+g @ 0 mins. Adjust the 60 min addition to keep total IBU to ~30.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've used styrian goldings in a sort of GA before. Never used Simpsons Imperial malt so can't comment.
> 
> If i was to use english ale malt and english hops i would brew an english ale such as my Landlord :icon_cheers:


Cheers DR.S,ive got your landlord chugging away with 1469 now.Are you able to give me any ideas with imp ale malt? i might start a new thread about it.
Im off to my LHBS soon what other malts do you think i might need,i cant find much info on the net about that malt.
cheers sorry about all the questions


----------



## drsmurto

humulus said:


> Cheers DR.S,ive got your landlord chugging away with 1469 now.Are you able to give me any ideas with imp ale malt? i might start a new thread about it.
> Im off to my LHBS soon what other malts do you think i might need,i cant find much info on the net about that malt.
> cheers sorry about all the questions



From a cursory glance at Craftbrewer, Imperial Ale malt looks similar to amber malt in colour. Are you sure it's a base malt?

If you want to brew a GA with english hops then stick to the grainbill listed. If you want to brew an english ale that isn't a Landlord then PM me and I can give you recipes.


----------



## HeavyNova

Not far off bottling my first attempt at this. Not that it'll surprise anyone but I tasted the grav sample last night and I'm pretty sure it's a winner. Unfortunately I'm splitting this batch with another guy, I reckon I might make it up again and reuse the US-05 so I can have some more.

Even while it was warm, flat and cloudy with yeast it tastes better than JS Golden Ale!


----------



## filbrew

Hey guys I just realised I accidently pitch 34/70 haven't tasted it yet its been fermenting for nearly 2 weeks. Should I do a diacytle rest? The fermentation has been around 18 degrees. 

I'll get back to you guys soon to let you know it tastes.


----------



## pmunny

Thanks Dr! 

My first BIAB and of course had to try the famous golden ale  . Only one problem though, i'm gonna need a bigger setup cos i'm drinking this waaay too quick!


----------



## drsmurto

Filbrew said:


> Hey guys I just realised I accidently pitch 34/70 haven't tasted it yet its been fermenting for nearly 2 weeks. Should I do a diacytle rest? The fermentation has been around 18 degrees.
> 
> I'll get back to you guys soon to let you know it tastes.



Fermenting a lager at 18C wont require a lager rest. It will produce quite a few esters i suspect (a guess as i have never used that yeast) so might need some dry hopping to add more hop aroma.


----------



## stixjew

HI Dr Smurto, just brewing your good recipe for the first time but had a major stuff up. I used :



2850 gms Ale malt

250 gms caramalt
850 gms wheat malt

and 750 gms caramunich 1 instead of munich 1.

Batch size aiming for 23 litres into fermenter.



I punched in the numbers and it seems to be quite a bit darker, ive still got 15 minutes of the mash to go , not sure how the taste will be effected but im reluctant to tip it out. How do you think it will turn out, yuk?



I am a naughty silly boy, should have taken a bit more care !


----------



## Salt

Has anyone tried a 10min version of this drop?

I like the idea of 10min IPAs etc, and was wondering if anyone had used this grain bill and done a big whack with the Amarillo at 10min to get up to around 35IBUs. 

Quite keen to try this approach and keen to hear if anyone had done the same.

Chur


----------



## HeavyNova

Got this puppy chilling now for bottling this weekend. Can't wait!!!


----------



## Thefatdoghead

I have a double batch of this fermenting now. i'll be away for 5 weeks but I was just wondering if the dry hop will be ok when I get home after 5 weeks?


----------



## drsmurto

Gav80 said:


> I have a double batch of this fermenting now. i'll be away for 5 weeks but I was just wondering if the dry hop will be ok when I get home after 5 weeks?



Do you mean add the dry hop after 5 weeks or dry hop fro 5 weeks?

No reason why you can't dry hop when you come back. Dry hopping for 5 weeks though is likely to cause vegetal flavours in your beer.


----------



## HeavyNova

Getting reeady for bottling this tomorrow and would like some opinion on the carbonation;

How carbonation much suits this beer?

I'm thinking about 2.3 volumes. Sound about right?


----------



## Thefatdoghead

DrSmurto said:


> Do you mean add the dry hop after 5 weeks or dry hop fro 5 weeks?
> 
> No reason why you can't dry hop when you come back. Dry hopping for 5 weeks though is likely to cause vegetal flavours in your beer.




Yeah mate I mean dry hop after 5 weeks when cold conditioning.
Cheers


----------



## kyleg

Mashing this at the moment. I saw in the latest edit on the db file that you adjusted hops to 20 mins and flame out. im doing a 46L batch and my planned hop additions are 90g(2g/l) @ 20mins and 70g(1.5g/l) @ 0 mins

In brewmate this gives me 50.2 IBU with the no chill option selected. and 22.3 with it unselected. Do these addtions sound ok? The way i got to my additions was:

put in the original hop additions from recipe db, multiplied each addtion by 2.3 as im doing 46L.
saw that the predicted IBU was 35IBU with out NC and 53.5 with NC. 
So I aimed to get the 53.5IBU with NC selected.

This sound ok? Thanks


----------



## kyleg

Guess i'll find out in a few weeks!


----------



## Lecterfan

I would just like to voice my support for this recipe (grist at least, I don't use amarillo much) with rye in it. Bloody delicious. Dry and spicy on top of the caramunich is a great combo. I only subbed about half of the wheat as I was timid with my first use of rye. Next one will be Argons LFPA with a big chunk of rye in it methinks.


----------



## going down a hill

I'm going to knock this one out as my next brew. I have been wanting to have a play with rye so that's going in, I'm not a massive fan of Amarillo so I'm subbing it with Chinook and giving the WY1272 American Ale II a crack as well because I'm a little over us05. This one should be a good drop.


----------



## Mayor of Mildura

going down a hill said:


> I'm going to knock this one out as my next brew. I have been wanting to have a play with rye so that's going in, I'm not a massive fan of Amarillo so I'm subbing it with Chinook and giving the WY1272 American Ale II a crack as well because I'm a little over us05. This one should be a good drop.


This is why I love brewing ag. Different grain/hops/yeast but still the same vibe!


----------



## milob40

got me thinkin' has anyone tried this recipe with galaxy or cascade?
might be a good chrissy brew.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

No but my house Pale Ale is generally (and currently) using Galaxy, Cascade and Citra, if that helps.

Similar grain bill to DSGA, too.

Goomba


----------



## Lecterfan

milob40 said:


> got me thinkin' has anyone tried this recipe with galaxy or cascade?
> might be a good chrissy brew.



My last version of this was cascade (plus half wheat subbed for rye) - and also to GDAH, I use wy1272 almost exclusively in place of op/1056 and is just as good in this recipe. Great complexity, delicious and I will brew it again.


----------



## milob40

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> No but my house Pale Ale is generally (and currently) using Galaxy, Cascade and Citra, if that helps.
> 
> Similar grain bill to DSGA, too.
> 
> Goomba


i'm a big fan of galaxy, my s&w pacific ale style brew is fast becoming my fav but would love to try a more meatier recipe in the golden ale style for the cooler nights ,come one then , recipes are for sharing  . pleasssee!!!!!


----------



## milob40

Lecterfan said:


> My last version of this was cascade (plus half wheat subbed for rye) - and also to GDAH, I use wy1272 almost exclusively in place of op/1056 and is just as good in this recipe. Great complexity, delicious and I will brew it again.


sounds good, does the rye give it a big grainy finish?


----------



## drsmurto

If brewing this beer for me I always use rye instead of wheat. EDIT - rye does give it a spicy/earthy flavour. 

I've done a galaxy version before (rye and also caraaroma). Also done a galaxy/cascade combination (cascade and chinook work well together too). Both very good. I also regularly sub vienna for the munich. 

WY1272 (or the whitelabs equivalent) is my preferred yeast for this. 

Rye golden ale on tap at the moment with homegrown victoria hops (now have 3 victoria plants) is going down so well.

I use this grist % in a lot of beers as well as the general hop schedule (great for homegrown chinook, cascade and victoria!). Still call them golden ales even if the only thing it has in common is the water.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

milob40 said:


> i'm a big fan of galaxy, my s&w pacific ale style brew is fast becoming my fav but would love to try a more meatier recipe in the golden ale style for the cooler nights ,come one then , recipes are for sharing  . pleasssee!!!!!



Recipes are absolutely for sharing and I'm more than happy to share:

Viscount is truly dead
American Pale Ale
Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 25.0
Total Grain (kg): 5.700
Total Hops (g): 100.00
Colour (SRM): 10.1 (EBC): 19.9
Bitterness (IBU): 35.1 (Average)

Grain Bill
----------------
5.000 kg Perle Malt Bairds (87.72%)
0.400 kg Wheat, Red (7.02%)
0.200 kg Carared (3.51%)
0.100 kg Caraaroma (1.75%)

Hop Bill
----------------
10.0 g Galaxy Pellet (13.4% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g Cascade Pellet (5% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
30.0 g Citra Pellet (11.1% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (1.2 g/L)
30.0 g Galaxy Pellet (13.4% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (1.2 g/L)
20.0 g Cascade Pellet (5% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop) (0.8 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------
US-05


----------



## Dazza88

If my hops direct order doesn't turn up on the weekend this Golden Ale inspired grain bill will be brewed with Falconer Flight. Should be good. 25L

*Dr Smurto's Golden Ale* (Extra Special/Strong Bitter (English Pale Ale))

Original Gravity (OG): 1.045 (P): 11.2
Final Gravity (FG): 1.010 (P): 2.6
Alcohol (ABV): 4.60 %
Colour (SRM): 8.5 (EBC): 16.7
Bitterness (IBU): 30.6 (Average)

61.21% Boh Pils
18.83% Munich II
14.12% Wheat Malt
3.39% Carared
2.26% Caraaroma
0.19% Chocolate, Pale

0.5 g/L Falconers Flight (10.5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
0.8 g/L Falconers Flight (10.5% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil)
0.8 g/L Falconers Flight (10.5% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil)
1.5 g/L Falconers Flight (10.5% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)

Single step Infusion at 65C for 90 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 18C with Wyeast 1272 - American Ale II


----------



## punkin

Kyle G said:


> Guess i'll find out in a few weeks!




I always add the recipes in brew mate at the original volume and then just scale up the litres. The software automatically scales up the ingredients.



I'm drinking a Rye version atm I didn't dry hop it and i'm sorry i didn't, next one will definately have more hops.

Other than that it's delicous...



*Rye APA1* (American Pale Ale)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.046 (P): 11.4
Final Gravity (FG): 1.008 (P): 2.1
Alcohol (ABV): 4.94 %
Colour (SRM): 6.9 (EBC): 13.5
Bitterness (IBU): 34.0 (Average)

55% Pale Ale Malt
20% Munich I
20% Rye Malt
5% Caramalt

0.5 g/L Amarillo (8.2% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
0.5 g/L Centennial (8.3% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
0.7 g/L Amarillo (8.2% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil)
0.7 g/L Centennial (8.3% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil)
0.9 g/L Amarillo (8.2% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma)
0.9 g/L Centennial (8.3% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma)


Single step Infusion at 66C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 20C with Safale US-05


Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*


----------



## HeavyNova

I've run out of Amarillo for the dry hop! Any suggestions to a delicious alternative? Or should I just leave it as is?


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

HeavyNova said:


> I've run out of Amarillo for the dry hop! Any suggestions to a delicious alternative? Or should I just leave it as is?




Dry hop - cascade, citra, summer, nelson sauvin - all are great dry hoppers that I've experience with.


----------



## HeavyNova

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Dry hop - cascade, citra, summer, nelson sauvin - all are great dry hoppers that I've experience with.


Pretty sure I've got some citra and maybe even some cascade hanging around. I reckon I'll give it a go, will never know until I try it! Cheers LRG.


----------



## Asha05

Just put my 1st batch of this down, used magnum hops as i had a heap...Smells and tastes very nice...Will dry hop with cascade...Hope its a winner...!


----------



## Dazza88

The recipe I posted a little bit above ended up with amarillo, centennial and simcoe. Oh yeah!


----------



## drsmurto

Rather than email everyone with the pdf file it seems much simpler to attach the pdf files here and include the link in my siganture.

The first is the original recipe as listed in the recipeDB
View attachment Golden_Ale___original.pdf


The second is the 'award winning' version which scored 46/50 at ANAWBS 2008. No dry hopping. I prefer this version as i feel it is a better balanced beer.
View attachment Golden_Ale___Award_winning.pdf


----------



## RobboMC

I brewed a highly 'pimped' extract version of this recently, and have just tasted my first bottle.

Now I know what Neil Sedaka was singing about:

Show me the way to the Amarillo
Evry nite I've been higgin my pillow
Dreamin dreams of Amarillo
the sweet brew'ry that waits for me.

And all this time we thought he was singing about some little town in Texas 

Truly the best beer I have ever tasted.
The day after I went back to an all extract dark brew and it tasted like crap. 

The 2 best things about this brew: 1 - I've got 40 more bottles of it and
2 - I've got the recipe to make as much more as I can

Now having looked at the grain bill, would it be possibly better to start with a pilsner kit rather than Sparkling Ale?


----------



## drsmurto

The pilsner kit gives 5 IBU less when diluted to 23L than the sparkling ale kit.

Apart from that there is no issue. You could add more hops to compensate or drop the volume by 1-2L.


----------



## alien13

DrSmurto said:


> The second is the 'award winning' version which scored 46/50 at ANAWBS 2008. No dry hopping. I prefer this version as i feel it is a better balanced beer.
> View attachment 50607



The 0min addition of 20gm in this award winning version above, how long is that left in? Until it has cooled down to pitch temp, or just for X minutes?

I've attached a beersmith file for the new version, just want to make sure I've changed everything properly.

Cheers,


----------



## Maheel

cranked out a BIAB 23L batch today for a boxing day keg  

went with some northern brewer and cascade


----------



## drsmurto

alien13 said:


> The 0min addition of 20gm in this award winning version above, how long is that left in? Until it has cooled down to pitch temp, or just for X minutes?
> 
> I've attached a beersmith file for the new version, just want to make sure I've changed everything properly.
> 
> Cheers,



I generally wait 15-20 minutes after flameout to chill to allow the aroma hops to steep.


----------



## Yob

DrSmurto said:


> I prefer this version as i feel it is a better balanced beer.




in for a penny.. I think I have these ingredients laying around though I may not get to use them till the new year but it's good to have a recipe waiting 

:icon_drunk:


----------



## pmash

Hey Doc, I have just poured myself the first tasting of your original all grain, all amarillo recipe out of a baby Braumeister.
Brewed on the 28/11/11 with the later hop additions you suggest. Kegged and chilled for a week, under gas for 2 days, already clearing and tasting pretty sweet, if ya know wot I mean!!! :icon_cheers: 

I'll just leave it alone now ,,,'til chrissy


----------



## alien13

DrSmurto said:


> I generally wait 15-20 minutes after flameout to chill to allow the aroma hops to steep.



Thanks, that clears that up!

I'll have to go check out the LHBS sometime soon so I can get a batch of this going, the owner even recommended I get one made as soon as I can


----------



## drsmurto

I've got a batch in primary with Chinook for flavour and aroma that I hope to be able to resist until NYE with the lads.

Will be hard as the Landlord keg blew dry last night and the Alt keg feels too light for my liking.....


----------



## vortex

Did a small AG batch of this the other day, looks to be only 13 - 14L into the fermenter (First AG batch) but used 1056 as the yeast. It's only been a few days so far, but I can't wait to stick it in a keg!


----------



## TBird

Hi all

I'm in the process of brewing an extract version of Dr Smurto"s Golden Ale. I'm in a bit of a hurry to get it into a keg by Sunday 15th. Currently the SG is at 1015 and tastes great (I pitched the yeast on last Saturday morning ( 7th)). As per the recipe, I'd like to dry hop with 15g of Amarillo pellets. 

When is the earliest I could add the hops without CO2 stripping away the aroma in the fermentation process and still have enough time for the hops to impart some aroma?

Cheers and thanks


----------



## sponge

TBird said:


> Hi all
> 
> I'm in the process of brewing an extract version of Dr Smurto"s Golden Ale. I'm in a bit of a hurry to get it into a keg by Sunday 15th. Currently the SG is at 1015 and tastes great (I pitched the yeast on last Saturday morning ( 7th)). As per the recipe, I'd like to dry hop with 15g of Amarillo pellets.
> 
> When is the earliest I could add the hops without CO2 stripping away the aroma in the fermentation process and still have enough time for the hops to impart some aroma?
> 
> Cheers and thanks



If you plan on having it kegged by sunday and its very close to being finished fermenting, chuck them in now to give them a few days to do their thanggg, otherwise there wont be much time to impart much/any aroma



Sponge


EDIT: PS. dont rush kegging it if it hasnt finished fermenting, but even if you do, just be sure to release some of the pressure if its still fermenting


----------



## drsmurto

TBird said:


> Hi all
> 
> I'm in the process of brewing an extract version of Dr Smurto"s Golden Ale. I'm in a bit of a hurry to get it into a keg by Sunday 15th. Currently the SG is at 1015 and tastes great (I pitched the yeast on last Saturday morning ( 7th)). As per the recipe, I'd like to dry hop with 15g of Amarillo pellets.
> 
> When is the earliest I could add the hops without CO2 stripping away the aroma in the fermentation process and still have enough time for the hops to impart some aroma?
> 
> Cheers and thanks



Rather than dry hop you could steep some hops in boiled water and strain the liquid into the keg as you rack into it.

You could use a coffee plunger for this or as i did back in the extract days, a piece of stocking tied up to contain the hops.


----------



## iralosavic

DrSmurto said:


> Rather than dry hop you could steep some hops in boiled water and strain the liquid into the keg as you rack into it.
> 
> You could use a coffee plunger for this or as i did back in the extract days, a piece of stocking tied up to contain the hops.



What about a good old classic teapot infusion and pour? Hmm I wonder if it would be drinkable.


----------



## d3vour3r

made this up as my first AG last weekend. unfortunatly its sitting patiently n the cube as my fermenting situation isnt good atm (waiting for fridge to be free)

because of no chilling my hop recipe was as follows (all amarillo)

45m 15g
5m 20g
cube hop 5g
going to dry hop 20g

reckon thatll end up ok? i think IBU worked out to be around 33


----------



## TBird

"Rather than dry hop you could steep some hops in boiled water and strain the liquid into the keg as you rack into it."

Thanks Doc

I'd forgotten about making a hop tea. How long do you seep the hops for and in how much water?

Thanks


----------



## drsmurto

TBird said:


> "Rather than dry hop you could steep some hops in boiled water and strain the liquid into the keg as you rack into it."
> 
> Thanks Doc
> 
> I'd forgotten about making a hop tea. How long do you seep the hops for and in how much water?
> 
> Thanks



You might expect a scientist to be more accurate in doing this but i normally splash some boiling water into jug. At a guess, maybe 250mL. Drop in the hops (20g for a 20L batch give or take) make a coffee and then strain (the hop solution, not the coffee) into a keg. 

@d3vour3r - I don't no chill so don't follow the threads relating to any conversions needed. Personally i don't think you should be making any adjustments for no chill. When i brew this recipe i add the last lot of hops at flameout. Then i whirlppol and spend the next 10, 15, 20 mins or so connecting up the plate chiller, running sanitiser through it, sanitising the fermenter etc before running the now much cooler than 100C wort through the chiller.


----------



## vortex

Put my batch into Secondary last night - My bittering addition was definately too high - but it's entirely my fault, it was my first AG batch and ALL the numbers were WAY out, boil was more like 15L starting volume instead of 18L like it should have been, and I didn't adjust the bittering addition. Ended up with only 12L into the fermenter 

Big hop aroma though, going to skip the dry hopping in secondary I think but I may still drop some in the keg (in a stainless tea ball).

It'll be too bitter for the style but it's still WAY better than my past K&K 'brews'!


----------



## mesa99

Vic45 made a cracker version of the Golden Ale with all Galaxy.. Just saying. B)


----------



## vic45

mesa99 said:


> Vic45 made a cracker version of the Golden Ale with all Galaxy.. Just saying. B)




There is still a few pints left too....Just saying :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## bobsaget

Ge I hate to be a killjoy but I brewed this recipe and really wasn't happy with the results. The recipe good, the hops - Amarillo, bad. I have heard a lot of great things on this forum about Amarillo hops and brewed this recipe for the specific reason of trying them and have to say that I was not impressed. A thoroughly over rated hop IMHO. I think the recipe is good just it needs some different hops. Any suggestions for something that will give a fairly authentic APA without using a hop similar to Amarillo?


----------



## manticle

Take your pick. Cascade or centennial are well used and well liked (grapefruit/citrus) chinook is piney and resiny. Other popular US hops include simcoe, columbus and citra.

Many of the NZ hops have the same kind of fruitiness as many of the US hops and galaxy (aus hop) if you like passionfruit.

Personally I've found recent seasons of amarillo to be a bit wanting so it might be that. I used to get mandarin and stonefruit. Now I get a bit of passionfruit and a bit of perfume/chemical character.


----------



## Nick JD

manticle said:


> Now I get a bit of passionfruit and a bit of perfume/chemical character.



_Rexona Sport_ antiperspirant.


----------



## drsmurto

bobsaget said:


> Ge I hate to be a killjoy but I brewed this recipe and really wasn't happy with the results. The recipe good, the hops - Amarillo, bad. I have heard a lot of great things on this forum about Amarillo hops and brewed this recipe for the specific reason of trying them and have to say that I was not impressed. A thoroughly over rated hop IMHO. I think the recipe is good just it needs some different hops. Any suggestions for something that will give a fairly authentic APA without using a hop similar to Amarillo?



You're not being a killjoy, you have just discovered that amarillo doesn't press your buttons.

Cascade works well as does centennial, B Saaz (Moteuka), Chinook, Galaxy or combinations of some of them. One of my favourite versions was by another brewer and was a 50/50 split of cascade and amarillo. My favourite version uses homegrown Victoria hops as well as rye instead of wheat.


----------



## punkin

I like mine with centennial, but i like everything with centennial :icon_cheers: 

Also using 50/50 rye/wheat for the wheat addition.

edit; just checked i'm using northern brewer to bitter and a split tween cascade and centennial.


----------



## waggastew

My last version had a combo of Galaxy and Nelson Sav. Turned out well


----------



## troopa

I just mashed and cubed this last night at midnight with 80grams of cascade for something different 
40g @ 60
20g @ 20
20g @ 0 
Taste and smell out of the pot was damn awesome

Im thinking of doing this reciepe with a single addition Aipa with amarillo and cascade at 20mins for the fun of it
scaled the recipe up to 1.060
Cascade 80g @ 20mins
Amarillo 80g @ 20mins
IBU should coming somewhere about 60 Any thoughts on if this would work for a flavor profile or should i scrap it and go for a simple Topaz smash 
then i think i better go back to using some cheaper bittering hops after this


----------



## bobsaget

DrSmurto said:


> Cascade works well as does centennial, B Saaz (Moteuka), Chinook, Galaxy or combinations of some of them. One of my favourite versions was by another brewer and was a 50/50 split of cascade and amarillo. My favourite version uses homegrown Victoria hops as well as rye instead of wheat.



Thanks I might try it with cascade. Also Northern Brewer could be interesting. So what would rye bring to the party?


----------



## troopa

If the taste of the liquor last night with cascade is anything to go by then you wont be disappointed Bob 
Its going to be a painfull week waiting for the fridge to become empty so i can start fermenting this


----------



## gazeboar

Hey guys! I just drew out a hydrometer reading for this beer, today being day 11. The hydrometer was still bubbling but I suspected it was just the CO2, and fermentation was done. I used US-05, and fermented at 18. The odd thing is, the FG was 1060. Higher than any FG i'd recorded. The obvious next inquiry would be "what was the SG", which I forgot to take (Yes, I need a slap). What's the deal with this?


----------



## gazeboar

gazeboar said:


> Hey guys! I just drew out a hydrometer reading for this beer, today being day 11. The hydrometer was still bubbling but I suspected it was just the CO2, and fermentation was done. I used US-05, and fermented at 18. The odd thing is, the FG was 1060. Higher than any FG i'd recorded. The obvious next inquiry would be "what was the SG", which I forgot to take (Yes, I need a slap). What's the deal with this?




I meant airlock, obviously. Edit function won't work for me.


----------



## troopa

Your final gravity (FG) is 1.060 SG? i think you may need to do another Specific gravity (SG) reading because if it fermented at all it should of been about 1.045ish to start with and fermented down to somewhere about 1.008-1.012


----------



## gazeboar

Troopa said:


> Your final gravity (FG) is 1.060 SG? i think you may need to do another Specific gravity (SG) reading because if it fermented at all it should of been about 1.045ish to start with and fermented down to somewhere about 1.008-1.012




Yes. I'm certain i'm reading it correctly, used it plenty of times. It's definitely fermented, tastes damn good already. Is there anything that could have caused my hydrometer to become so uncalibrated? I'll go take another reading with another hydrometer anyhow.


----------



## manticle

gazeboar said:


> Hey guys! I just drew out a hydrometer reading for this beer, today being day 11. The hydrometer was still bubbling but I suspected it was just the CO2, and fermentation was done. I used US-05, and fermented at 18. The odd thing is, the FG was 1060. Higher than any FG i'd recorded. The obvious next inquiry would be "what was the SG", which I forgot to take (Yes, I need a slap). What's the deal with this?



Can you explain your process for using and reading the hydromter?

What was the recipe you went with - the kit version, AG version or a tweak on one of them?


----------



## gazeboar

manticle said:


> Can you explain your process for using and reading the hydromter?
> 
> What was the recipe you went with - the kit version, AG version or a tweak on one of them?



Okay, so I used the other hydrometer, the one I had previously used is so far out of whack it's not funny. I had totally different reading. Maybe should have tried the other one first. It's still a little high though - 1.018. Is that at all unusual? 


This was the recipe for a 6L boil:

250G simpsons crystal (Steeped at 65 for 40 mins)
Premium selection Coopers sparkling ale can 
Coopers wheat malt extract can 
20g Amarillo at 15, 20g at 5 
Us-05 Yeast 

For hop utilisation, I had put one third of the can of wheat malt extract in for the boil. The rest of that can I added in in the last few minutes of the boil. The sparkling ale can was added after the wort had standed for 10 minutes.


----------



## manticle

It's not unusual for extract beers to finish higher than kit/kilo or all grain.

Give it a few more days, try a fast ferment test (google braukaiser fast ferment) and see if it drops any but 1018 is reasonable, 1060 is unlikely.


----------



## troopa

Still sounds high. whats the hydrometer reading in tap water? if its at 0.0 then I would give it a decent stir not too vigorous and then take another reading on Tuesday. If its higher then that then i would still stir it and wait till Tuesday and see if its still the same 

If your kegging i wouldn't stress about anything, but if your bottling be patient


----------



## manticle

For an all extract brew with some crystal it's not that crazy. When I did extract and extract and grains my usual finishing gravity range was 1016-1018. I am very patient with most beers and rarely in a rush to bottle. By the time I was extract brewing, I had developed this attitude.

I don't keg but if I did, I wouldn't rush a beer into it anymore than I would the bottle. There's more to consider than bombs (important though that is). Allowing the yeast to remove unwanted flavour compounds is also important.


----------



## gazeboar

manticle said:


> It's not unusual for extract beers to finish higher than kit/kilo or all grain.
> 
> Give it a few more days, try a fast ferment test (google braukaiser fast ferment) and see if it drops any but 1018 is reasonable, 1060 is unlikely.



I'll leave it for a few more days and test again. Thanks.


----------



## bum

Spin the hydrometer so air bubbles aren't able to throw out your reading.


----------



## gazeboar

Troopa said:


> Still sounds high. whats the hydrometer reading in tap water? if its at 0.0 then I would give it a decent stir not too vigorous and then take another reading on Tuesday. If its higher then that then i would still stir it and wait till Tuesday and see if its still the same
> 
> If your kegging i wouldn't stress about anything, but if your bottling be patient



It's at 0.0... Unfortunately don't have a keg, can't see myself getting one in the near future as i'm an unemployed uni student. Patience seems to be the main tactic in this game, i'll be sure to take another reading Tuesday before crash chilling.


@bum, Had done so... 


I've noticed this batch is reasonably bitter... dryness on the tongue. It has a slightly floral scent too (in a nice way, not a chemical-florally scent), but i've read Amarillo has this type of characteristic. It's nothing offensive or unwanted, I'll just be interested to see how it all mellows and develops after a month or so.


----------



## troopa

Your able to make it last a month ?????
Damn im barely able to keep it for a week let alone 4


----------



## gazeboar

Troopa said:


> Your able to make it last a month ?????
> Damn im barely able to keep it for a week let alone 4



Hahaha... It's going to be super difficult. I've been settling for Coopers sparkling ale lately, as i've been collecting the longnecks for my brews, and have enough of them to keep me going for a while. I'm just really interested to compare a James Squire golden ale to this batch, after it's matured slightly. My friend drinks the James Squire range constantly and the Golden ale is his favourite beer. I'm going to do a blind/unlabelled taste test with the homebrew, JSGA and a couple of other macro beers with my friends as test subjects and see how the homebrew weighs up. (If it turns out good that is, which i'm sure it will).


----------



## drsmurto

Troopa said:


> I just mashed and cubed this last night at midnight with 80grams of cascade for something different
> 40g @ 60
> 20g @ 20
> 20g @ 0
> Taste and smell out of the pot was damn awesome
> 
> Im thinking of doing this reciepe with a single addition Aipa with amarillo and cascade at 20mins for the fun of it
> scaled the recipe up to 1.060
> Cascade 80g @ 20mins
> Amarillo 80g @ 20mins
> IBU should coming somewhere about 60 Any thoughts on if this would work for a flavor profile or should i scrap it and go for a simple Topaz smash
> then i think i better go back to using some cheaper bittering hops after this



Sounds ok to me although i would add some flameout/dry hop additions.



bobsaget said:


> Thanks I might try it with cascade. Also Northern Brewer could be interesting. So what would rye bring to the party?



Rye has an earthy, spicy character than some people (me) find addictive. :icon_drool2: 

US Northern Brewer would work well IMO.


----------



## Camo1234

Gents, I am placing my order for grain with CB today and they are out of 1056 Wyeast... I am strating to build my yeast supplies by splitting wyeast packs at the moment so was hoping to do the same with this brew. 

What other Wyeast would you guys suggest for this recipe?

Camo


----------



## sponge

1272


----------



## drsmurto

Wyeast 1272 (american ale II) or WhiteLabs 051 (California V) are my preferred yeasts.


----------



## Vanoontour

Anyone added any Cascade as a 0 addition as well as the Amarillo? Going to brew this tomorrow and I quite like a hoppy aroma/taste.

Cheers.


----------



## stux

bobsaget said:


> Ge I hate to be a killjoy but I brewed this recipe and really wasn't happy with the results. The recipe good, the hops - Amarillo, bad. I have heard a lot of great things on this forum about Amarillo hops and brewed this recipe for the specific reason of trying them and have to say that I was not impressed. A thoroughly over rated hop IMHO. I think the recipe is good just it needs some different hops. Any suggestions for something that will give a fairly authentic APA without using a hop similar to Amarillo?



I made this recipe with 2009 Amarillo, was a real cracker. Lychees and fruit.

2010 Amarillo, really doesn't do it for me, its more like a marmalade beer 

Moved onto Nelson Sauvin now, and just received my first pound of Galaxy


----------



## drsmurto

vanoontour said:


> Anyone added any Cascade as a 0 addition as well as the Amarillo? Going to brew this tomorrow and I quite like a hoppy aroma/taste.
> 
> Cheers.



Cascade works very well in combination with amarillo.




Stux said:


> I made this recipe with 2009 Amarillo, was a real cracker. Lychees and fruit.
> 
> 2010 Amarillo, really doesn't do it for me, its more like a marmalade beer
> 
> Moved onto Nelson Sauvin now, and just received my first pound of Galaxy



Was just commenting last night to a couple of of the local brewing brethren that despite by dislike for the Stone and Wood beer i actually quite like galaxy and have brewed a few galaxy rye golden ales.


----------



## HBHB

+1 on the WYEAST 1272 American Ale II - nice and clean profile and clears very nicely without filtering if it's not available.

Martin


----------



## troopa

+1 on the cascade with this
if i didnt have 80grams of amarillo left over from a previous brew my next 4 GA would be cascade as a house brew


----------



## [email protected]

Hah my 60yr old mother likes this! Award winning version, Amarillo with carahell as the crystal.

Amazing how many people say they dont drink beer, then if you can convnce them to taste DSGA type of beer its usually oh wow i could actually drink that, i didnt know beer could taste like that?
It is a very well balanced grain bill and hopping schedule, only made 3 incarnations of this so far, but i think its something i am going to do more with slightly different grains, rye included.

Off topic - but turns out my mother also likes MG Rare Breed IPA that i am drinking at the moment :blink:


----------



## Smokomark

+1 on the WYEAST 1272 American Ale II. I've just cracked a keg I brewed a few weeks ago with 1272. Friggin awesome


----------



## punkin

Beer4U said:


> Hah my 60yr old mother likes this! Award winning version, Amarillo with carahell as the crystal.
> 
> Amazing how many people say they dont drink beer, then if you can convnce them to taste DSGA type of beer its usually oh wow i could actually drink that, i didnt know beer could taste like that?
> It is a very well balanced grain bill and hopping schedule, only made 3 incarnations of this so far, but i think its something i am going to do more with slightly different grains, rye included.
> 
> Off topic - but turns out my mother also likes MG Rare Breed IPA that i am drinking at the moment :blink:




She's your mother. She'll like anything you make :lol: :lol:


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Rye is the best non-spec malt to use for spec. Seriously good in APA, sets off a weiss gorgeously.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Rye is the best non-spec malt to use for spec. Seriously good in APA, sets off a weiss gorgeously.


mmm rye. Haven't used it in any non black beer but pretty keen to. Love what it brings to a stout party!


----------



## Morebeer4me

Plan on cooking up this brew soon, but only have 30 grams of amarillo, I do have some northern brewer left, do you think I could use both or just buy some more amarillo. ? 

Edit :- have challenger as well


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Gav80 said:


> mmm rye. Haven't used it in any non black beer but pretty keen to. Love what it brings to a stout party!



Have a look at this

You can change base malt, change to your fave hop variety/ies (IBU is balanced, just adjust quantity for that).

But I reckon the rye (and comments public and private have indicated so) is about perfect balance wise.

The Roggenweiss was an 80/20 wheat/rye split. Yum.

Goomba


----------



## Thefatdoghead

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Have a look at this
> 
> You can change base malt, change to your fave hop variety/ies (IBU is balanced, just adjust quantity for that).
> 
> But I reckon the rye (and comments public and private have indicated so) is about perfect balance wise.
> 
> The Roggenweiss was an 80/20 wheat/rye split. Yum.
> 
> Goomba



Yum looks very nice! Might go with cascade and galaxy (I have heaps) but yeah i'll give this one a go thanks Goomba.


----------



## Mitchjazz

I am going to have a go at making the extarct version with the ingrediants I have in the picture. I am not sure if I have purchased the correct ingrediants can anyone confirm pls?


----------



## Matt89

It will make beer but you have got a can of light malt extract instead of wheat, if you add the extra dme you have, you will get a heavier beer with a more malted profile

I think you may have confused the caramalt for dme
Caramalt is a spec grain that you steep in water then add to the wort
Also have you got your hop additions of Amarillo?

Up to you if you wanna make to a tee or if you wanna change it up a little bit
Either way you make 'beer'



Mitchjazz said:


> I am going to have a go at making the extarct version with the ingrediants I have in the picture. I am not sure if I have purchased the correct ingrediants can anyone confirm pls?


----------



## DU99

need 250grams medium crystal grain(120) and the hop's and you need wheat malt extract not light

Recipe spreadsheet post 91


----------



## drsmurto

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Rye is the best non-spec malt to use for spec. Seriously good in APA, sets off a weiss gorgeously.



I very rarely brew a golden ale with wheat anymore.

20% rye in this beer with a range of hops works a treat, cascade and galaxy are very nice together but my personal favourite is Victoria.

EDIT - @MitchJazz, you need wheat malt extract not light malt. You will still get a nice beer. I wouldn't add extra extract though. The 2 tins made up to 20L is what you want. 250g of a light/medium crystal grain is also nice.

Here is the kit recipe from the notes in the recipeDB.

KIT VERSION
1 can Thomas Coopers Sparkling Ale
1 can Coopers Wheat Malt
250g Caramalt (or other light crystal)
15g Amarillo @ 15, 5 and dry hop.
Yeast - US05


----------



## Mitchjazz

thanks guys. Im goint ot make a 40 litre batch. I dont have the wheat malt so i i will try this next time. I have also found 250 grams of malt crystal grain (ebc115-145) do you think is should use it?

plan of attack is:

2 x Coopers Sparkling ale 
2 x Coopers LIGHT malt extract
250 grams malt crystal grain
30g amarillo @ 15, 5 and 30g dry hop
2 packets us-05 yeast
ferment round 21 degress

Making 40 litres.

Does this look ok?


----------



## drsmurto

Looks fine Mitch.


----------



## Mitchjazz

DrSmurto said:


> Looks fine Mitch.




would you be using the crystal doc?


----------



## drsmurto

Mitchjazz said:


> would you be using the crystal doc?



Yes, looks like a medium crystal which will work well in this.


----------



## gazeboar

Wow! Just wow... Dr Smurto, you are my hero. Made 20 litres of this brew and it was first successful batch of beer after messing up so many, I must say I'm bloody relieved! After 5 weeks in the bottle, this beer is highly sessionable... great head retention, the citrus from the Amarillo is dancing on my tongue and the toffee malt flavours are mellowed and very nicely balanced. I've showed a few friends and they were impressed, even made a comparison to the JSGA and they preferred the homebrew. 

Just a couple of questions - I love the Amarillo in this one, if I leave the batch for another 3 weeks (2 months overall), will the hops die down a bit? In other words, should I drink the beer now while the hops are still fresh or try and be patient for a few more weeks? The bottles are 750ml longnecks (I've heard that conditioning takes longer in these than stubbies, unsure if this is a wives tale). In all honesty is there a significant improvement in flavour between the 5 week and 8 week mark?
Also, here is the recipe I made: 

1 can Thomas Coopers Sparkling Ale
1.5kg Wheat malt extract (liquid)
250 g Crystal Malt
20g amarillo at 15mins
20g amarillo at 5mins
Yeast: US-05

Could I bump up the amarillo additions to add more hop character without making the flavour too offensive? Eg: Two lots of amarillo at 25g and a dry hop. Just wanting the Amarillo to cut through a little more. Anyway, I'm over the moon that I can brew two cartons of beer for $40 that easily surpasses the quality of beer priced at twice that amount in the Marcro market. This will be a regular for sure, need to invest in another fermenter I think


----------



## Thefatdoghead

Hey DrS just wanted you opinion on this version I'll be doing soonish.
Cheers

Total for 1.0 batch: 52lt
5.62 kg Golden Promise Malt
1.87 kg Rye Malt
1.87 kg Vienna Malt
0.59 kg Caramunich TYPE I
Amarillo fw-20g
Galaxy fw-10g
Amarillo, 40min 10g
Galaxy, 40min 10g
Amarillo20min 20g
Galaxy 20min 10g
Amarillo 0min 20g
Galaxy 0min 20g

200.0 mL WYeast 1272 American Ale II™

Amarillo and galaxy hopped at:

First wort, 40min,20min, cool to 80deg then hop for steeping.

IBU-36


----------



## beerbog

My latest golden (in the keg right now) all of a sudden lost all its flavour, so I have just hop tea'd 37g into the keg to try and revive some of the lost flavour. It has only been in the keg for 2 months. Back on 100kpa and I'll know the results in 24 hours. :beerbang:


----------



## drsmurto

gazeboar said:


> Wow! Just wow... Dr Smurto, you are my hero. Made 20 litres of this brew and it was first successful batch of beer after messing up so many, I must say I'm bloody relieved! After 5 weeks in the bottle, this beer is highly sessionable... great head retention, the citrus from the Amarillo is dancing on my tongue and the toffee malt flavours are mellowed and very nicely balanced. I've showed a few friends and they were impressed, even made a comparison to the JSGA and they preferred the homebrew.
> 
> Just a couple of questions - I love the Amarillo in this one, if I leave the batch for another 3 weeks (2 months overall), will the hops die down a bit? In other words, should I drink the beer now while the hops are still fresh or try and be patient for a few more weeks? The bottles are 750ml longnecks (I've heard that conditioning takes longer in these than stubbies, unsure if this is a wives tale). In all honesty is there a significant improvement in flavour between the 5 week and 8 week mark?
> Also, here is the recipe I made:
> 
> 1 can Thomas Coopers Sparkling Ale
> 1.5kg Wheat malt extract (liquid)
> 250 g Crystal Malt
> 20g amarillo at 15mins
> 20g amarillo at 5mins
> Yeast: US-05
> 
> Could I bump up the amarillo additions to add more hop character without making the flavour too offensive? Eg: Two lots of amarillo at 25g and a dry hop. Just wanting the Amarillo to cut through a little more. Anyway, I'm over the moon that I can brew two cartons of beer for $40 that easily surpasses the quality of beer priced at twice that amount in the Marcro market. This will be a regular for sure, need to invest in another fermenter I think



Yes you can wait another few weeks/months and the flavours will develop/change. For my taste the hop aroma drops off but the malt/toffee character starts to shine through a bit more. Some like more hop, others less. Leave some aside and see what you think.

Yes, adding more hops will push the flavour and aroma. 25g instead of 20g additions isn't go to make it offensive to non HB drinkers.



Gav80 said:


> Hey DrS just wanted you opinion on this version I'll be doing soonish.
> Cheers
> 
> Total for 1.0 batch: 52lt
> 5.62 kg Golden Promise Malt
> 1.87 kg Rye Malt
> 1.87 kg Vienna Malt
> 0.59 kg Caramunich TYPE I
> Amarillo fw-20g
> Galaxy fw-10g
> Amarillo, 40min 10g
> Galaxy, 40min 10g
> Amarillo20min 20g
> Galaxy 20min 10g
> Amarillo 0min 20g
> Galaxy 0min 20g
> 
> 200.0 mL WYeast 1272 American Ale II
> 
> Amarillo and galaxy hopped at:
> 
> First wort, 40min,20min, cool to 80deg then hop for steeping.
> 
> IBU-36



You have me craving a beer before lunch on a Monday morning so I think that would be a big tick!

I love the combination of rye and vienna in this beer. I haven't used GP in a GA yet but just bought a bag of the Fawcetts GP so plenty of beer to try it in. Hop combination is a good one and the yeast a very good choice.

I'd personally wind the IBU back to 30, that for me is where the balance lies in this recipe. You could increase the mash temp to 67-68 instead and see if you can get it to finish a few points higher to balance the extra IBU.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

DrSmurto said:


> Yes you can wait another few weeks/months and the flavours will develop/change. For my taste the hop aroma drops off but the malt/toffee character starts to shine through a bit more. Some like more hop, others less. Leave some aside and see what you think.
> 
> Yes, adding more hops will push the flavour and aroma. 25g instead of 20g additions isn't go to make it offensive to non HB drinkers.
> 
> 
> 
> You have me craving a beer before lunch on a Monday morning so I think that would be a big tick!
> 
> I love the combination of rye and vienna in this beer. I haven't used GP in a GA yet but just bought a bag of the Fawcetts GP so plenty of beer to try it in. Hop combination is a good one and the yeast a very good choice.
> 
> I'd personally wind the IBU back to 30, that for me is where the balance lies in this recipe. You could increase the mash temp to 67-68 instead and see if you can get it to finish a few points higher to balance the extra IBU.


I did raise the IBU to suit the golden promise malt. I have not used golden promise yet but assume it's maltier than standard ale malt as it is floor malted. Might do as you suggested and raise the mash temp to finish higher.
Another hop combo I was thinking is to bitter with Amarillo then @20,10,0min do Amarillo,simcoe,cascade combo at each time. Have you tried these three in the golden ale before?
Cheers
Gav


----------



## drsmurto

Gav80 said:


> I did raise the IBU to suit the golden promise malt. I have not used golden promise yet but assume it's maltier than standard ale malt as it is floor malted. Might do as you suggested and raise the mash temp to finish higher.
> Another hop combo I was thinking is to bitter with Amarillo then @20,10,0min do Amarillo,simcoe,cascade combo at each time. Have you tried these three in the golden ale before?
> Cheers
> Gav



Only ever used Simcoe to bitter with but have tasted a few APAs from local brewers using Simcoe late and i was impressed. Its on my to do list but that is quite a long list. Sounds like a nice combination to me.


----------



## beerbog

Gibbo1 said:


> My latest golden (in the keg right now) all of a sudden lost all its flavour, so I have just hop tea'd 37g into the keg to try and revive some of the lost flavour. It has only been in the keg for 2 months. Back on 100kpa and I'll know the results in 24 hours. :beerbang:



Didn't really improve it. :beerbang:


----------



## iralosavic

Dr: when you say 14 days primary, 14 days secondary, do I assume 18c for the full 28 days?


----------



## drsmurto

iralosavic said:


> Dr: when you say 14 days primary, 14 days secondary, do I assume 18c for the full 28 days?



No, 14 days primary at 18C, 14 days secondary at 1-2C. 

Secondary can be as short or as long as you want it to be. 7 days would be the minimum.


----------



## iralosavic

DrSmurto said:


> No, 14 days primary at 18C, 14 days secondary at 1-2C.
> 
> Secondary can be as short or as long as you want it to be. 7 days would be the minimum.



Good-o. My usual process is 10-14 days (pending fermentation is complete), with a 10 day crash chill followed by a transfer to secondary to lager for whatever period suits the style. I don't have a filter, so I find that chilling before transferring to secondary results in a lot less sediment/yeast in the final beer. Thanks for the clarification, mate.


----------



## The_Duck

DrSmurto said:


> No, 14 days primary at 18C, 14 days secondary at 1-2C.
> 
> Secondary can be as short or as long as you want it to be. 7 days would be the minimum.



What would be the effects of not being able to do a secondary at 1-2C ? if the temp was more like 10-12 C would you have significant differences ?

I just don't have a spare fridge and the keg fridge is a full house..


Duck


----------



## drsmurto

iralosavic said:


> Good-o. My usual process is 10-14 days (pending fermentation is complete), with a 10 day crash chill followed by a transfer to secondary to lager for whatever period suits the style. I don't have a filter, so I find that chilling before transferring to secondary results in a lot less sediment/yeast in the final beer. Thanks for the clarification, mate.



I tend to try and get some of the yeast over into the secondary as yeast plays a very important role in the development of flavours in the beer. Not much but enough that there is a good layer of yeast at the bottom of the secondary container by the end of the conditioning phase.


----------



## The_Duck

Also wanted to ask if there are any caveats for doing this as a BIAB ?


Duck


----------



## drsmurto

The_Duck said:


> What would be the effects of not being able to do a secondary at 1-2C ? if the temp was more like 10-12 C would you have significant differences ?
> 
> I just don't have a spare fridge and the keg fridge is a full house..
> 
> 
> Duck



I assume you don't have a fermenting fridge then? 10-12C is better than 18C but the speed at which the yeast drops will be decreased.




The_Duck said:


> Also wanted to ask if there are any caveats for doing this as a BIAB ?
> 
> 
> Duck



Lots of people brew this recipe using BIAB and I see no reason why anything needs to be adjusted as far as the recipe is concerned.


----------



## The_Duck

DrSmurto said:


> I assume you don't have a fermenting fridge then? 10-12C is better than 18C but the speed at which the yeast drops will be decreased.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of people brew this recipe using BIAB and I see no reason why anything needs to be adjusted as far as the recipe is concerned.



OK... Was just wondering about the differences in process re water volumes for mashing, not adding water for sparging etc. 

I generally just do a single infusion mash and hoist the bag to drain while I bring the wort to the boil. I could use my brown pump to recirculate wort to the top of the bag for a while I guess. 

Duck


----------



## dionysis

Love this beer and have based many goodbeers off it. 
Best one so far used used Nelson Sauvin and Galaxy together ******* fantastic. 
Going to try replacing the caramalt with cararye next time because im still just an extract brewer.


----------



## Where's Jim?

I used this grain bill with a little bit of magnum for bittering and 500g of home grown, freshly picked, 'wet' wurttemberger (similar to Tettnang, I believe).

Oh god. :icon_drool2: 

The best beer I've brewed so far. Amazingly sticky head and mouth feel due to the hops too. Worked really well with the DSGA grain bill.
I've had many compliments on it. If only I brewed more...

Cheers Doc!


----------



## hijax

Looking at putting this down as my first biab/no chill this weekend. Any no chillers out there recommend a tried and tested hop schedule that works well for them? Was thinking:

15grms @ 60min
20grms @ 0mins
20grms french press.

Still a bit confused about converting hop schedules to nc. Did read some where that Dr Smurto recommended not to change the schedule for nc. Has anyone tried this?


----------



## merlin032

Currently drinking a version of this and it's very enjoyable.

When I say a version - I didn't have the exact ingredients so I used what I had lying around. It still came out great and I second the American Ale II recommendation. I will have to brew the exact recipe as a comparison but I do think it's probably maltier than the original recipe, still goes down well, perhaps will throw in a bit more bitterness and dry hopping next time.



Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
2.83 kg Ale Malt (Barrett Burston) (6.3 EBC) Grain 1 57.4 % 
1.00 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 2 20.3 % 
0.80 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 3 16.2 % 
0.30 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (39.4 EBC) Grain 4 6.1 % 
21.23 g Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 23.1 IBUs 
0.57 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 6 - 
15.93 g Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 7 6.3 IBUs 
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 8 - 
15.93 g Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 9 3.5 IBUs 
0.5 pkg American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) [124.21 ml] Yeast 10 - 
17.25 g Amarillo [9.20 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs


----------



## drsmurto

hijax said:


> Looking at putting this down as my first biab/no chill this weekend. Any no chillers out there recommend a tried and tested hop schedule that works well for them? Was thinking:
> 
> 15grms @ 60min
> 20grms @ 0mins
> 20grms french press.
> 
> Still a bit confused about converting hop schedules to nc. Did read some where that Dr Smurto recommended not to change the schedule for nc. Has anyone tried this?



This recipe is designed to have a 10-20 min wait after flameout (to allow the hops to steep and the whirlpool to settle out the hops and break) before chilling so DO NOT adjust the hopping schedule.


----------



## hijax

Thanks for the reply Dr Smurto! Cant wait to give it a go. :beer:


----------



## Camo1234

hijax said:


> Looking at putting this down as my first biab/no chill this weekend. Any no chillers out there recommend a tried and tested hop schedule that works well for them? Was thinking:
> 
> 15grms @ 60min
> 20grms @ 0mins
> 20grms french press.
> 
> Still a bit confused about converting hop schedules to nc. Did read some where that Dr Smurto recommended not to change the schedule for nc. Has anyone tried this?




Your best bet is to run with the schedule as is and then play around with it in subsequent brews. You need to have a base level to see if your changes improve the beer or not. I BIAB and ran with the standard schedule and completely hapy with it.... I will try the Aargon Method next to see what difference it makes. One word of advice though is to follow what Smurto just said and be sure to leave it sit for 20 mins before draining to the cube to give the 0 min hops a chance to do something.

Camo


----------



## hijax

Cheers camo! That makes perfect sense.

Dr Smurto, does this apply for all your other recipes in the database? Do you pretty much always have a 10-20 min wait after flameout?


----------



## drsmurto

hijax said:


> Cheers camo! That makes perfect sense.
> 
> Dr Smurto, does this apply for all your other recipes in the database? Do you pretty much always have a 10-20 min wait after flameout?



Yes, all my beers get whirlpooled at flameout to settle the break and any flameout hops get a chance to steep.

I spend that time sanitising my chiller, fermenter, airstone etc and having a beer.


----------



## cdbrown

Great recipe Dr. Brewed it the other week and kegged it yesterday. Thankfully there was an extra L or two left in the fermenter so I had a few drinks while finishing off the LCPA clone brew. Looking forward to this weekend when it should be carbed.


----------



## lukasfab

DrSmurto said:


> I very rarely brew a golden ale with wheat anymore.
> 
> so do you mean you take out all of the wheat addition and use rye?
> 
> 
> thanks


----------



## drsmurto

lukasfab said:


> DrSmurto said:
> 
> 
> 
> I very rarely brew a golden ale with wheat anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so do you mean you take out all of the wheat addition and use rye?
> 
> 
> thanks
Click to expand...


Yes.

My favourite version/house ale is 

55% Thomas Fawcetts MO
20% Wey rye
20% Wey vienna
5% Wey Carabohemian
Magnum @ 60
Victoria 2g/L @ 20
Victoria 2g/l @ 0
WY1272

I brew the wheat/amarillo/US05 version for mates.

The 55/20/20/5 grist is one i use for a lot of beers.


----------



## evildrakey

Thinking of doing this recipe and replacing the amarillo in all or part with Bramling Cross.

Am I nuts or should I do okay?


----------



## iralosavic

Just having a glass of one of these now. After having smashed my usual glass thermometer, I stuffed up the mash by using an uncalibrated temporary digital replacement [(that I later found to be 2c higher than actual) - assuming my new lab spirit thermometers are accurate anyway.]  

Considering I managed a single infusion at 68c and a resultant FG of 1.014, it's still a well balanced beer. It's a bit chewy and feels too sweet for style, but the characteristics and complexity of a JSGA are there and you can tell it would be a winner if it were dryer. I've got the grain in stock to make another one and am really looking forward to it!

A question for the DR: If I split my alpha and beta amalyse rests, what rest periods and temperatures would you recommend to get a similar (but slightly higher attenuating) result to a 66c infusion? 

PS: Good to see you putting your home grown Victoria to a noble use.

Cheers


----------



## iralosavic

DrSmurto said:


> so do you mean you take out all of the wheat addition and use rye?
> 
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> Yes.
> 
> My favourite version/house ale is
> 
> 55% Thomas Fawcetts MO
> 20% Wey rye
> 20% Wey vienna
> 5% Wey Carabohemian
> Magnum @ 60
> Victoria 2g/L @ 20
> Victoria 2g/l @ 0
> WY1272
> 
> I brew the wheat/amarillo/US05 version for mates.
> 
> The 55/20/20/5 grist is one i use for a lot of beers.



At the risk of drifting off topic, what AA% do you estimate your Victoria at? 2g/[email protected] leaves little room for any magnum, unless your IBU target is very high. What IBU IS your target? My mouth is watering just reading this recipe.


----------



## drsmurto

evildrakey said:


> Thinking of doing this recipe and replacing the amarillo in all or part with Bramling Cross.
> 
> Am I nuts or should I do okay?



Bramling X is a hop i like but have never used it with this grist, i generally use it in an english bitter with a good english yeast. I don't think you are nuts but you are doing something that hadn't crossed my mind. Try it and report back.




iralosavic said:


> Just having a glass of one of these now. After having smashed my usual glass thermometer, I stuffed up the mash by using an uncalibrated temporary digital replacement [(that I later found to be 2c higher than actual) - assuming my new lab spirit thermometers are accurate anyway.]
> 
> Considering I managed a single infusion at 68c and a resultant FG of 1.014, it's still a well balanced beer. It's a bit chewy and feels too sweet for style, but the characteristics and complexity of a JSGA are there and you can tell it would be a winner if it were dryer. I've got the grain in stock to make another one and am really looking forward to it!
> 
> A question for the DR: If I split my alpha and beta amalyse rests, what rest periods and temperatures would you recommend to get a similar (but slightly higher attenuating) result to a 66c infusion?
> 
> PS: Good to see you putting your home grown Victoria to a noble use.
> 
> Cheers



I've never done multiple mash steps in this beer. If i did it would probably be 64-65 for 60 and 70 for 20. Given you missed the desired mash temp by 2C I would repeat with a 66C mash before playing about with multiple rests. This finishes at 1.012 for me with a 66C mash. I have had it finish at 1.010 but that was a re-pitch of a lot of yeast.




iralosavic said:


> At the risk of drifting off topic, what AA% do you estimate your Victoria at? 2g/[email protected] leaves little room for any magnum, unless your IBU target is very high. What IBU IS your target? My mouth is watering just reading this recipe.



Checked my recipe and I used 2g/L @ 15 with an estimated AA% of 10.0. That required a 60 min addition of Magnum of 5g (0.25g/L) at AA% of 14 for a total IBU of 32.8. If i shift it to 20 mins i still need 2g of Magnum.


----------



## brad81

This is my first brew ever. Did the recipe according to the DB and got my first reading of 1031 pre boil and 1045 post. Pretty chuffed. Cannot wait to see what it tastes like.

Oh and the house smells like Amarillo


----------



## evildrakey

DrSmurto said:


> Bramling X is a hop i like but have never used it with this grist, i generally use it in an english bitter with a good english yeast. I don't think you are nuts but you are doing something that hadn't crossed my mind. Try it and report back.
> 
> Will do - am planning to put it down next weekend when I get back to Brissy (soon as the girlfriend lets me out of bed  )


----------



## mattyra

I would absolutely love to get this brew going. I am looking to start my all-grain soon (still researching building my all-grain setup).

I should be ready to start soon so I went looking for the ingredients. The cheapest I can seem to find these ingredients is $45 (without the hops as I already have them) I am still looking at getting them as I would like to start but I was wondering how does everyone do it so cheap. I keep hearing people saying the whole thing costs roughly $1/L where as mine will cost more like $3/L with the price of the hops included?


----------



## drsmurto

Mattyra said:


> I would absolutely love to get this brew going. I am looking to start my all-grain soon (still researching building my all-grain setup).
> 
> I should be ready to start soon so I went looking for the ingredients. The cheapest I can seem to find these ingredients is $45 (without the hops as I already have them) I am still looking at getting them as I would like to start but I was wondering how does everyone do it so cheap. I keep hearing people saying the whole thing costs roughly $1/L where as mine will cost more like $3/L with the price of the hops included?



Many of us buy our grain and hops in bulk which is how it becomes $1/L or thereabouts.

$45 seems expensive, have you tried any of the sponsors? Shipping cost will be probably be what hurts you.


----------



## sponge

Buying grain and hops in bulk and re-using yeast will get you down towards the $1/L mark. 

There's normally a few bulk buys happening each year with local brew clubs/areas which you can keep your eye open for to start making some savings on ingredients


Sponge


EDIT: Beaten by DrS. As he said, $45 for a ~22L brew seems quite expensive. $45 should be getting you a heavily hopped, alcoholic IPA


----------



## mattyra

Thanks guys.

I thought it seemed expensive. I calculated the prices from craftbrewer (had great dealings with before) and the postage is what kills it. I think without the hops it was roughly $25 which is quite reasonable for a first go, but then the postage gets me.

Might have to look at finding some other brewers who are willing to help share the cost of some bulk grains.

Thanks,


----------



## humulus

Mattyra said:


> Thanks guys.
> 
> I thought it seemed expensive. I calculated the prices from craftbrewer (had great dealings with before) and the postage is what kills it. I think without the hops it was roughly $25 which is quite reasonable for a first go, but then the postage gets me.
> 
> Might have to look at finding some other brewers who are willing to help share the cost of some bulk grains.
> 
> Thanks,


Sorry to be a bit :icon_offtopic: Mattyra google Markshomebrew in Newcastle its costs $12 for 25kg delivered to your door im in Sydney call him and ask!!
P.S the Drs Golden Ale and his Landlord are my 2 house beers! cant beat em :icon_drool2:


----------



## drsmurto

humulus said:


> Sorry to be a bit :icon_offtopic: Mattyra google Markshomebrew in Newcastle its costs $12 for 25kg delivered to your door im in Sydney call him and ask!!
> P.S the Drs Golden Ale and his Landlord are my 2 house beers! cant beat em :icon_drool2:



+1 for Mark's Homebrew.

All my dealings with him have been very positive.


----------



## stux

Also try Absolute Hombrew (.com.au) in St Marys

With the hops from CradtBrewer consider buying 450g at a time and chucking the rest in the fridge for next time


----------



## Aydos

humulus said:


> Sorry to be a bit :icon_offtopic: Mattyra google Markshomebrew in Newcastle its costs $12 for 25kg delivered to your door im in Sydney call him and ask!!
> P.S the Drs Golden Ale and his Landlord are my 2 house beers! cant beat em :icon_drool2:



$12 is really cheap, what is this for? base malt?


----------



## vortex

aydos said:


> $12 is really cheap, what is this for? base malt?


Probably just the shipping on the 25kg sack


----------



## DarkFaerytale

mashing now, i partial brew at the moment so subbed most of the pils malt for 1kg briess golden dme. otherwise it's the same. this will be the first pale ale i have on tap, bet it doesn't last long.

cheers Dr.S

-Phill


----------



## humulus

aydos said:


> $12 is really cheap, what is this for? base malt?


Nah mate thats just for postage of up to 25kgs!!! still cheap!


----------



## merlin032

drinking this at the moment and loving it - I think I will make this my house beer. Just purchased 1kg of Amarillo the other day


----------



## lukasfab

what should i carb this brew to?


----------



## drsmurto

lukasfab said:


> what should i carb this brew to?



I prefer it on the low side, 1.8 -2 volumes and served at 8-10C.


----------



## hendos

Great brew.
I did this as my first AG.
My mates loved it, keg only lasted a week. :beerbang: 

Thanks Doc


----------



## chefeffect

This has been my house beer for about 3 months, the last few times I have substituted the caramunich for other grains, gotta say Melanoidin has been one of the best...


----------



## hqracer

I brewed a batch of this about a month ago and just tapped the keg last night - I would have to say it is one of the best beers I have made - simply exceptional. Incredibly well balanced. Not too hoppy for the boring beer drinkers but hoppy enough with a great aroma to keep the hopheads happy.


----------



## beerdrinkingbob

hqracer said:


> I brewed a batch of this about a month ago and just tapped the keg last night - I would have to say it is one of the best beers I have made - simply exceptional. Incredibly well balanced. Not too hoppy for the boring beer drinkers but hoppy enough with a great aroma to keep the hopheads happy.




Funny you say that, I've made this 4 times, great beer but the Amarillo of 2009 made the best beer IMO. My none craft beer mates called to tooty fruity and the hop heads just :icon_drool2:


----------



## sponge

Hey all,

I'm looking at doing a similar grain bill to the DSGA with rye, except using up a couple of left over hops I have in the freezer after a recent bulk buy

I have a small amount of galaxy, NS and amarillo which I was just going to use up in this.

I was looking at just throwing them all into the cube, with 50/25/25% amarillo/ns/galaxy, since galaxy and ns can be a little overpowering used in high quantities late in the boil

Can anyone see a problem with this combo? In theory I think it would work well, but thought I might as well ask the question in case someone has had horrible results with the mix of hops

Cheers,


Sponge


EDIT: I've also got a little chinook left over which I could always use as well/in place of one of the hops since ive just bought some more and wouldnt mind using it up.


----------



## drsmurto

Rye in place of wheat is my standard house ale with either of my homegrown hops - chinook or victoria.

I don't no chill so can't comment on cube hopping but those hops have all worked well in the past for me in this recipe in various combinations, chinook and amarillo one of my favourites.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

Made this recipe but changed some things up a bit.

52L Batch

5.62 kg Golden Promise Malt
2.1 kg Rye Malt
1.87 kg Vienna Malt
0.59 kg Caramunich TYPE I
Amarillo (9.3%) FWH
Amarillo (9.3%) 20 min
Amarillo (9.3%) 15 min
Cascade (6.8%) 10 min
Simcoe (13.0%) 5min
Cascade (6.8%) 5min
Amarillo (9.3%) 2 min
Cascade (6.8%) 0 min
Simcoe (13.0%) 0 min
Amarillo (9.3%) 0 min

wyeast 1272

Same OG as original.

I must say im really enjoying it. It's almost like the same concept as a black IPA except the Rye makes it feel like drinking a thick creamy stout. Not for everyone but im loving it....lucky, only 48 litters to go! The hop combo is spot on I reckon. Lots of flavour and aroma. No dry hops added and I chilled this one as appose to putting it into jerrys for the night. I would like to try pilsner malt with this combo as well, maybe next time.
Cheers


----------



## maark

i had to post
i am just now drinking the extract version of this.
It is fuckin sensational..kodos to drsmurto..tastes and smells fantastic
the only difference i made was bittering with galaxy at 60mins
thankyou for the recipe,i cant stop putting my nose in the glass

46 Lt
galaxy [email protected] 60 mins
amarillo [email protected] 20 mins
amarillo [email protected] 0 mins
cascade [email protected] 0 mins
IBU 26

mark


----------



## maldridge

I'm looking at using this recipe for my first AG brew. Is there anywhere in Melbourne that stocks the ingredients? Just looking at saving on shipping.

Thanks.


----------



## bullsneck

Grain & Grape, Keg King, Greensborough Home Brew and more I can't think of now can sort you out with what you need.


----------



## maldridge

Thanks mate will check them all out.


----------



## maldridge

Sorry guys one more quick question regarding this recipe (for now)...

Is it necessary to transfer into a second fermenter for secondary fermentation? Or is it ok to just leave in primary and don't dry hop?

Cheers.


----------



## Matt89

Secondary = not worth the risk of infection

Leave in primary for another week after you hit your FG then transfer to keg/bottles

And if your concerned about sediment in bottles, use finings but your yeast cake should be nice and compact after you give it the time it needs


----------



## drsmurto

maldridge said:


> Sorry guys one more quick question regarding this recipe (for now)...
> 
> Is it necessary to transfer into a second fermenter for secondary fermentation? Or is it ok to just leave in primary and don't dry hop?
> 
> Cheers.



It depends on what you are after.

I don't dry hop this and haven't for a very long time as i don't find it necessary. The flameout addition gives me all the aroma i want. If you want more aroma, dry hop. Dry hopping can be done in the primary fermenter, just wait until fermentation is done.

Racking is optional, you can simply leave it in the primary fermenter for another week after fermetnation has finished. 2 weeks total would be the minimum, 3 better.

I give my ales 2 weeks primary, rack and then 1-2+ weeks cold conditioning.

Racking is one of the many aspects of brewing that divides brewers.

I always rack as the cake at the bottom of the fermenter contains more than just yeast (proteins/polyphenols/hop resins etc) and I don't want my beer in contact with them for extended periods. Racking causes a small amount of turbulence which releases CO2 that is still in solution so as long as you rack into a sanitised container with minimal headspace, the infection risk is negligible.


----------



## maldridge

That's great you guys cleared up a lot of things, thanks!


----------



## Matt89

+1 for CC


----------



## spudfarmerboy

DrSmurto said:


> It depends on what you are after.
> 
> I don't dry hop this and haven't for a very long time as i don't find it necessary. The flameout addition gives me all the aroma i want. If you want more aroma, dry hop. Dry hopping can be done in the primary fermenter, just wait until fermentation is done.
> 
> Racking is optional, you can simply leave it in the primary fermenter for another week after fermetnation has finished. 2 weeks total would be the minimum, 3 better.
> 
> I give my ales 2 weeks primary, rack and then 1-2+ weeks cold conditioning.
> 
> Racking is one of the many aspects of brewing that divides brewers.
> 
> I always rack as the cake at the bottom of the fermenter contains more than just yeast (proteins/polyphenols/hop resins etc) and I don't want my beer in contact with them for extended periods. Racking causes a small amount of turbulence which releases CO2 that is still in solution so as long as you rack into a sanitised container with minimal headspace, the infection risk is negligible.


I have never bothered with racking to secondary but lately I have been tempted to try it.
What sort of vessel to people usually rack to?
I usually make up a 23L brew so I can't rack to a corny as it won't all fit in.
Cheers


----------



## drsmurto

I rack to a plastic jerry (20L) or cube (25L). Both hold 2-3L more than they claim.


----------



## Filfy

Just rack into another fermenter .......


----------



## maldridge

As this is going to be my first AG brew, I've only got the one 30L fermenter at this stage. So I think what I'll do is just leave it in the fermenter for a tad longer. 2.5 weeks perhaps.

I will also be individually priming my bottles so again no real short cuts for me unfortunately.

I've noticed there are a few different variations of this recipe going round. The one on BeerSmith seems to have different quantities of grain, and some people have said to use different types of grain altogether. I guess with something like this anything really goes?


----------



## drsmurto

There are a number of variations, 2 of which i have converted to pdf (links in my signature).

I brew the 'award winning' version for my annual boys camping trip - I'm not allowed to attend without at least 1 keg of it. 

When brewing for me i prefer the rye/vienna version instead of wheat/munich and use whatever hop i have, more often that not that would be homegrown victoria or chinook. 

Yeast preference is WY1272.


----------



## DU99

My next extract i am using rye carmel malt,see what happens


----------



## thedragon

Bottled Dr Smurto's golden ale today after 3 weeks in primary. Tasted brilliant straight from FV. Can't wait to drink this when it's ready. Can see myself doing DSGA and Tony's bright ale on alternating months.


----------



## piraterum

I've made this a few times but want to try a Amarillo/Cascade combo....

Anyone got any suggestions for a nice Amarillo/Cascade ratio? I think I read 50/50 many posts ago? Looking for a balance between the two...


----------



## drsmurto

piraterum said:


> I've made this a few times but want to try a Amarillo/Cascade combo....
> 
> Anyone got any suggestions for a nice Amarillo/Cascade ratio? I think I read 50/50 many posts ago? Looking for a balance between the two...



50/50 for flavour and aroma works a treat. 

If using these for bittering I'd use amarillo over cascade, i find cascade too harsh as a bittering hop. 

That said, i use magnum for bittering as a general rule.


----------



## punkin

Brewed 4 cubes of this today. Used Citra for bittering and flavour/aroma hops and adding Citra and Cascade at dry hop.


----------



## Aydos

I have just finished reading all 41 pages, wow that took a while! B) I brewed this up last weekend, and put it into the cube. I tried the rye version so i will report back to how I find it. I thought I might also add it was only my second BIAB with my first being Doc's TTL which I have fermenting ATM :kooi: I went with the 60min addition and the 20min but I forgot my 0 min addition h34r: so I am going to do a mini hop aroma steep with a little bit of wort that I collected and throw it into the fermenter with the rest of the cube. I'm going to decide, after a few days in the fermenter, whether im going to dry hop mine as I really like a hoppy beer.

Cheers DrSmurto

Aydan


----------



## thedragon

thedragon said:


> Bottled Dr Smurto's golden ale today after 3 weeks in primary. Tasted brilliant straight from FV. Can't wait to drink this when it's ready. Can see myself doing DSGA and Tony's bright ale on alternating months.



Couldn't wait to try this, so I'm drinking this after just three weeks in the bottle. Can't believe how good it tastes after such a short time conditioning. Great mouthfeel and aroma too. Thanks Dr S.


----------



## mattieharding

Kegged this last nite and tried tonite!! Bloody awesome simple beer

Its a beer id serve to homebrew bagging mates, and i guarantee they would drink it im sure.

Highly recommend the wheat / Munich version cant see it lasting long.


----------



## drsmurto

mattieharding said:


> Kegged this last nite and tried tonite!! Bloody awesome simple beer
> 
> Its a beer id serve to homebrew bagging mates, and i guarantee they would drink it im sure.
> 
> Highly recommend the wheat / Munich version cant see it lasting long.



I have 2 fermenters of this at the moment in preparation for my boys camping tree in T-23 days (but whose counting  )

Went the 'award winning' version with a few extra grains thrown in to use up ends of bags. 

Opened the fridge this morning and got belted with that lovely amarillo aroma. Will be tough having to drink this for a few days sitting around a campfire :chug:


----------



## maldridge

When using the US05 yeast (as recommended in the recipes) will I be fine pitching dry? Should i use one packet or two? 

This is my first AG so hoping to avoid rehydrating and running into potential problems. 

Also will I run into blockage problems when I'm transferring from the kettle to my fermenter, having used hop pellets? Ive got a s/s kettle with ballvalve. Will things be ok with a quick whirlpool perhaps?

Sorry if this has all been covered.

Thanks.


----------



## tiprya

Pitching dry will work fine if you follow the instructions, remember to shake the fermentor to aerate the wort.


If you whirlpool properly, you shouldn't have any problems with hops blocking your tap.


----------



## maldridge

Ok great. Should I pitch at 18c? Same as fermentation temp?


----------



## Muscovy_333

maldridge said:


> As this is going to be my first AG brew, I've only got the one 30L fermenter at this stage. So I think what I'll do is just leave it in the fermenter for a tad longer. 2.5 weeks perhaps.
> 
> I will also be individually priming my bottles so again no real short cuts for me unfortunately.
> 
> I've noticed there are a few different variations of this recipe going round. The one on BeerSmith seems to have different quantities of grain, and some people have said to use different types of grain altogether. I guess with something like this anything really goes?




less than 20 bucks for a 21 litre cube and you will have yourself a few more options for brewing. Bulk priming will improve your consistency and remove 62 steps from your process...gives you something to rack to etc etc.
If you are jumping into AG, I strongly advise it.


----------



## maldridge

I've actually managed to pick up another 30L fermenter so I will be racking to it after 14 days in primary - hoping this will give me a clearer beer also.

If I want to bulk prime, would this be a suitable time to do it? As you rack into secondary for the recommended 7 days? Or is bulk priming done just before bottling...?


----------



## squirt in the turns

maldridge said:


> I've actually managed to pick up another 30L fermenter so I will be racking to it after 14 days in primary - hoping this will give me a clearer beer also.
> 
> If I want to bulk prime, would this be a suitable time to do it? As you rack into secondary for the recommended 7 days? Or is bulk priming done just before bottling...?



If you add more sugar and leave it for 7 days, the yeast will just ferment it (unless you keep the beer cold). Bulk prime right before bottling. Dissolve your priming sugar in boiled water first, add the syrup to the beer, stir gently (take care not to aerate or disturb the trub too much at this stage) and give it a few minutes to disperse, then bottle.


----------



## citizensnips

Bulk priming is done just before bottling, if you put it in a week before hand the yeast will just eat it all up and you'll most likely have flat beer

god dam it squirt


----------



## maldridge

Ah thanks, I just read a few threads about bulk priming and also found a popular online calculator. What carbonation level should I aim for with this beer?

_Edit: just found the answer two pages back, I knew I read it sometime! 1.8 - 2._

I think I am now confident to ferment in primary for 14 days at 18c. Rack to secondary for 7 days at 2c (or 1c), then add my dissolved sugar 'syrup' into secondary just before bottling. At this stage I imagine (having racked to secondary) there will be a lot less sediment to disturb when I stir in my sugar.

Sounding on track?


----------



## Muscovy_333

maldridge said:


> Ah thanks, I just read a few threads about bulk priming and also found a popular online calculator. What carbonation level should I aim for with this beer?
> 
> _Edit: just found the answer two pages back, I knew I read it sometime! 1.8 - 2._
> 
> I think I am now confident to ferment in primary for 14 days at 18c. Rack to secondary for 7 days at 2c (or 1c), then add my dissolved sugar 'syrup' into secondary just before bottling. At this stage I imagine (having racked to secondary) there will be a lot less sediment to disturb when I stir in my sugar.
> 
> Sounding on track?



I normally ferment right out, give my beer another week on the yeast. crash chill the beer on the yeast to clear it up ( a week in my case max), rack to secondary only to bulk prime and bottle immediately. Once I have racked I prefer to keep things moving to avoid risk of infection. 

Thats just how i do it.

Nothing wrong with your thinking though


----------



## drsmurto

maldridge said:


> When using the US05 yeast (as recommended in the recipes) will I be fine pitching dry? Should i use one packet or two?
> 
> This is my first AG so hoping to avoid rehydrating and running into potential problems.
> 
> Also will I run into blockage problems when I'm transferring from the kettle to my fermenter, having used hop pellets? Ive got a s/s kettle with ballvalve. Will things be ok with a quick whirlpool perhaps?
> 
> Sorry if this has all been covered.
> 
> Thanks.






maldridge said:


> I've actually managed to pick up another 30L fermenter so I will be racking to it after 14 days in primary - hoping this will give me a clearer beer also.
> 
> If I want to bulk prime, would this be a suitable time to do it? As you rack into secondary for the recommended 7 days? Or is bulk priming done just before bottling...?



A lot of good responses from others but I'll add my 2c.

1 pack of dry yeast per 20-23L in fine, you can simply sprinkle on top if you wish, many people advise rehydrating first. Whatever you feel comfortable doing. Rehydrating is easy - boil the kettle, pour into a measuring jug and cover with gladwrap. When it has cooled down to 30C sprinkle in the yeast and recover. Leave for 30 mins then pitch into your wort.

A good whirlpool post boiling should keep all the trub/hops etc from getting into your fermenter. 

14 days primary, rack to another fermenter or cube, crash chill to 1-2C and leave for another 7 days. If bottling i would then rack again to another cube which has the dissolved priming sugar sitting in the bottom. As the container fills up it will mix in the priming sugar. Bottle immediately. This is my method. There is no reason you couldn't skip the first racking and crash chill in the fermenter for 7 days then rack at bottling.

Carbonation is a personal thing. I prefer lower carbonated beers so 1.8-2.0 max is about where i aim. 

Tasted my 2 fermenters of this last night. 10 days primary and already getting clear. Tasting as good as always in my biased opinion. Will be racking/crash chilling this weekend.


----------



## maldridge

As always thanks for the replies everyone, very helpful.

As you started DrSmurto, 1 pack of US05 is good for up to 23L, I'm however aiming for 25L into the fermenter. Would 1 pack still be suitable, or would you recommend I throw in 1/4 of a second packet. I'm happy to fork out for a second packet if it's going to give me better results.

At this beginner stage I think I'll stick to pitching dry, for now


----------



## drsmurto

maldridge said:


> As always thanks for the replies everyone, very helpful.
> 
> As you started DrSmurto, 1 pack of US05 is good for up to 23L, I'm however aiming for 25L into the fermenter. Would 1 pack still be suitable, or would you recommend I throw in 1/4 of a second packet. I'm happy to fork out for a second packet if it's going to give me better results.
> 
> At this beginner stage I think I'll stick to pitching dry, for now



I'd stick with 1 packet.

You might need a little bit extra aeration and given you have 2 fermenters this is an easy thing to do. 

Before pitching the yeast lift the fermenter full of wort up to a height so that it can drain into your 2nd fermenter below. This drop will aerate the wort better than shaking/whisking it will with less effort required.


----------



## squirt in the turns

eddy22 said:


> Bulk priming is done just before bottling, if you put it in a week before hand the yeast will just eat it all up and you'll most likely have flat beer
> 
> god dam it squirt



Err... isn't that basically what I said?


----------



## maldridge

Lol I think he was acknowledging you beating him to the punch, hence his GOD DAMN YOU! 

Ok. I'll be draining from my kettle directly into my fermenter from a height so it might make more sense if I try your method of aeration straight away into my first fermenter  easy done.


----------



## drsmurto

maldridge said:


> Lol I think he was acknowledging you beating him to the punch, hence his GOD DAMN YOU!
> 
> Ok. I'll be draining from my kettle directly into my fermenter from a height so it might make more sense if I try your method of aeration straight away into my first fermenter  easy done.



I'm assuming you have an immersion chiller that enables you to chill in the kettle and you are droppong cold wort from a height, not hot wort?


----------



## squirt in the turns

maldridge said:


> Lol I think he was acknowledging you beating him to the punch, hence his GOD DAMN YOU!



Right. That makes more sense. I should've looked at the time difference between our posts. Apologies eddy.


----------



## maldridge

DrSmurto said:


> I'm assuming you have an immersion chiller that enables you to chill in the kettle and you are droppong cold wort from a height, not hot wort?



Yes I have an immersion chiller  dropping cold wort is fine?


----------



## drsmurto

maldridge said:


> Yes I have an immersion chiller  dropping cold wort is fine?



Dropping cold wort is an easy way of getting O2 into your wort. :icon_cheers:


----------



## jezza79

slightly different hop schedule but i still call it Dr Smurto's
i liked the look of the grain bill and decided to have a go.


----------



## Danielscott26

Brewing this on tuesday Biab style. Its my first real all grain brew so i'm really looking forward to it.


----------



## Morebeer4me

Dan26 said:


> Brewing this on tuesday Biab style. Its my first real all grain brew so i'm really looking forward to it.



Goodluck dan26, I have made this twice, first time it was all drunk by my mates very quickly, second time it's currently carbing up in bottles, forgot to dry hop this time, well at least I can compare. Oh and mates don't know about this brew, haha


----------



## Edak

I put this down as my first AG. 
My OG was a little high (1.052) but the US05 (rehydrated) ate it down quickly to 1.011 and after 16 days at 18 I racked then bottled. (I didn't crash chill because my Ferm Fridge doesn't get that low. I should mention that this is also my first rack-then-bottle experience also, which was fine although I was concerned about the sugar mixing in correctly. It's been in the bottles for nearly a week and I am getting impatient!!!!

Darn you beer, I want to drink you but you don't want me to drink you.


----------



## Camo1234

Edak said:


> It's been in the bottles for nearly a week and I am getting impatient!!!!
> 
> Darn you beer, I want to drink you but you don't want me to drink you.



Kegging will fix that! 

B)


----------



## Edak

Camo1234 said:


> Kegging will fix that!
> 
> B)



Darn right, I just need more space for a keezer...


----------



## Edak

okay finally gave in and put one of these bad boys in the fridge today. Just poured it and it was beautiful! Much better than my toucans and K&K's. A little bit undercarbed at this point (12 days at 18.5) but had a lovely golden colour and subtle bitterness. Laced the glass up wonderfully and had a beautiful aroma.

The only problem, my Mrs said "I could drink heaps of that!" so I think I will have to battle to stop her drinking it all 

Thanks Dr...


----------



## Aydos

I made this a few weeks ago now and has been in the keg for around 2-3 weeks (cant really remember!) and it is definately going down well. I made the rye version and its bloody delicious. I cant see the keg lasting much longer


----------



## punkin

Edak said:


> okay finally gave in and put one of these bad boys in the fridge today. Just poured it and it was beautiful! Much better than my toucans and K&K's. A little bit undercarbed at this point (12 days at 18.5) but had a lovely golden colour and subtle bitterness. Laced the glass up wonderfully and had a beautiful aroma.
> 
> The only problem, my Mrs said "I could drink heaps of that!" so I think I will have to battle to stop her drinking it all
> 
> Thanks Dr...



Get her pregnant, that'll stop her.


----------



## Edak

punkin said:


> Get her pregnant, that'll stop her.



GENIUS! I also get to have some fun doing it


----------



## maldridge

FINALLY got around to making my first AG brew, Docs Golden Ale of course. 

I think it went pretty good! When I was transferring from kettle to fermenter it did seem quite cloudy and maybe even a bit dark, but I think that was because as I saw it draining, it sucked up a lot of the crap left at the bottom unfortunately, however I'll be racking to secondary in 2 weeks, so at least that will hopefully clear it up. 

My only 'problem' if you can call it that, was that during my mash I did lose about 4 degrees. Started at 66 and when I opened the lid an hour later I was down to around 62-61 degrees. I was planning to mash for a bit longer as my receipe suggests but I thought at this point I might as well just mash out. IS this any cause for concern? I'd love it if you could put my mind at ease  

I've got my temp controller fridge sitting at 18 degrees, hopefully I have no infections and things will be smooth from here on out!

Thanks for the help along the way everybody. 

Peace.

Oh here are a few pics:














Oh here's the pup helping out


----------



## soundawake

Yep, this was my first proper AG beer I made, and god damn is it good.

A mate came over, I had about 6-7 longnecks in the fridge, all but one were extract/kit beers. I left the longneck of DSGA to last, and when my mate took his first sip he looked at me and said, 'holy shit!! This is amazing!!' The difference was like a cup of International Roast instant coffee vs a proper coffee made with Luwak beans..

We finished our pints in less than 5 minutes. I've only got 12 longnecks left of it, trying to drink all my crappy kit beer first but its not going well! Another brew day is planned next saturday, when I'll have my urn.


----------



## roo_dr

Finally got round to making this yesterday. The brewhouse was smelling beautiful this morning when I went in to check on the wee yeasties. Just wish I hadn't made a half-batch...!


----------



## Muscovy_333

My only 'problem' if you can call it that, was that during my mash I did lose about 4 degrees. Started at 66 and when I opened the lid an hour later I was down to around 62-61 degrees. 

[/quote]


She'll be right, if it only crept down 4 degrees in an hour. All within mash range...will be leaning toward a drier finish at those temps.
If it is your first AG it will still knock your socks off (pending a happy ferment)


----------



## Spiesy

Hey guys,

I plugged this recipe into BeerAlchemy (the brewing program I use), and got some very different results regarding gravities, ABV and colour. 

Due to the program not having the exact malts in the recipe, I went with:

German Pilsner Malt - 2.4kg
German Wheat Malt - 0.8kg
German Munich Malt - 0.8kg
German CaraMunich I - 0.25kg
BATCH = 20L | Efficiency = 66%.
Expected Pre boil gravity = 1.030SG | Expected ABV = 3.3% | Expected colour = 9.6EBC


Is this all due to a different efficiency rating, or have I got some malts wrong?


----------



## Arghonaut

What's your pre boil volume set to? What does it say the OG will be? That is more relevant than the pre boil gravity.

Edit: if it's saying 3.3% Abv then it's definetly coming in low, those grains are all fine, i use the same when using weyerman malts in beer alchemy. You can adjust the OG and it will automatically increase the grain bill accordingly.


----------



## Back Yard Brewer

domonsura said:


> This beer gets my vote without hesitation, It was on tap at the swap day at my place last year and after that i wouldn't give Smurto his keg back until it was empty  i then managed to get another keg off him which lasted a grand total of 8 days in my special care
> AWESOME hop flavour, the bitterness was just to my taste as well. I brewed this the other day and I'm very much looking forward to kegging (and drinking it of course) so I can make some more  Going to be on tap at my place for the foreseeable future.
> 
> edit: spelling




Really do miss the early swap days  I was just starting out then like a lot of the old regulars. How things have changed, along with my brewing knowledge :icon_cheers: But yes I did make this brew ONCE....


----------



## Spiesy

Arghonaut said:


> What's your pre boil volume set to? What does it say the OG will be? That is more relevant than the pre boil gravity.
> 
> Edit: if it's saying 3.3% Abv then it's definetly coming in low, those grains are all fine, i use the same when using weyerman malts in beer alchemy. You can adjust the OG and it will automatically increase the grain bill accordingly.


Yeah, that's what I'm going with too. Thanks.


----------



## maldridge

Hey guys. Quick question.

Having brewed this guy and had it in the fridge at 18c doing its thing for 12 days, I decided to take a hydrometer reading, as I plan to rack to secondary on Friday.

My reading was 1.010. Am I in the ballpark? I noticed in my recipe that FG should be 1.012. Close enough? I had a quick taste and I was quite happy - even with a shit load of sediment (sediment level was above the tap!) Didn't smell off or taste bad. Although I have no reference for comparison.

I never got around to taking SG and OG readings as this was my first AG brew and I was too focused on not ******* things up 

Am I on track? ABV should be ok?

Thanks!!


----------



## Danielscott26

Yea mate i just bottled mine a few days ago and its fg was 1010.


----------



## Aydos

Im drinking the rye version as I type, geez it going down well.

Too bad the keg will blow soon!


----------



## tcc

Thanks Dr this was very popular, almost all gone....

Has anyone tried doing a belgian mixup of this recipe, say with wy3522 and B Sazz instead of the 1056 and amarillo?

cheers


----------



## maldridge

Hey fellas, I'll be bottling my first batch this coming Friday, very much looking forward to it. Currently tastes and smells great, always a good sign 

Last Friday I racked to secondary for my cold conditioning stage. I set my stc1000 to 1c, however my fridge is rather old and is sitting at about 4.5deg. At this temperature is it still doing its thing?

Also, come Friday, should I set my fridge back to 18c so I can bottle at a warmer temp? Or is bottling at 4-5c ok?

Thanks in advance!

One more thing, when mixing up my bulk priming glucose mixture, how much water should I be mixing it with? I'm aiming for about 2.2 vol co2, with a 24L batch - used the online calculator.


----------



## tcc

maldridge said:


> Last Friday I racked to secondary for my cold conditioning stage. I set my stc1000 to 1c, however my fridge is rather old and is sitting at about 4.5deg. At this temperature is it still doing its thing?



I'm no expert but I think it will be ok, my go at this beer didn't get a cold conditioning stint (and isn't close to clear) and it still tastes great. Palmer lists lagering temps as high as 7deg C in his book but says clarity is inversely proportional to temp....still, its an ale who cares.



maldridge said:


> Also, come Friday, should I set my fridge back to 18c so I can bottle at a warmer temp? Or is bottling at 4-5c ok?
> 
> Thanks in advance!



There will be more dissolved CO2 in the cold beer, meaning final carbonation might be slightly higher, it is probably worth looking up the difference this will make if you are trying to be precise



maldridge said:


> One more thing, when mixing up my bulk priming glucose mixture, how much water should I be mixing it with? I'm aiming for about 2.2 vol co2, with a 24L batch - used the online calculator.



Palmer recommends using about a 3:1 ratio of boiling water to sugar.



Hope that helps, you can read the entire book online; http://www.howtobrew.com/intro.html


----------



## soundawake

Got about 8 longnecks left of this... its going too quickly. Question - How do I rate this recipe? I can't figure out how to do it, then again I've had a few beers!


----------



## Juzdu

I've been browsing around for quite a while in the hope of not having to ask this question...i so hate being a newbie at something. But here goes:

The recipe database on this forum confuses me a bit...for example Dr Smurto's Golden Ale recipe page lists all the grains and hops necessary to make this beer. But it doesn't say "how". Let me explain...given my newness to all of this, and having done a few kit beers, i'd like to try DSGA as my first full extract brew. It's great that the recipe has an extract version, but i'm keen to know some missing info. For example:
1. How much water do I put in the pot to steep my Crystal grain?
2. What temperature should I be steeping at, and for how long?
3. I plan on using a grain bag, should I sparge the grain, and if so, with how much water?

Do I just follow something like John Palmer's How to Brew? Section 2 suggests steeping 500gm of grain in 4 litres of 70'ish degree water for 30 minutes in a grain bag (which I have). It doesn't suggest sparging though, rather just squeezing the bag after you remove it.

Oh and lastly, the crystal grain i've purchased says it's "cracked". Does that mean it's ready to go as is into the grain bag? Or do i need to mill/crush it some more first?


----------



## Acasta

Juzdu said:


> I've been browsing around for quite a while in the hope of not having to ask this question...i so hate being a newbie at something. But here goes:
> 
> The recipe database on this forum confuses me a bit...for example Dr Smurto's Golden Ale recipe page lists all the grains and hops necessary to make this beer. But it doesn't say "how". Let me explain...given my newness to all of this, and having done a few kit beers, i'd like to try DSGA as my first full extract brew. It's great that the recipe has an extract version, but i'm keen to know some missing info. For example:
> 1. How much water do I put in the pot to steep my Crystal grain?
> 2. What temperature should I be steeping at, and for how long?
> 3. I plan on using a grain bag, should I sparge the grain, and if so, with how much water?
> 
> Do I just follow something like John Palmer's How to Brew? Section 2 suggests steeping 500gm of grain in 4 litres of 70'ish degree water for 30 minutes in a grain bag (which I have). It doesn't suggest sparging though, rather just squeezing the bag after you remove it.
> 
> Oh and lastly, the crystal grain i've purchased says it's "cracked". Does that mean it's ready to go as is into the grain bag? Or do i need to mill/crush it some more first?



The recipe DB is more for recipes and not for the method on how to brew them as everyone does it differently. Most will give a mash temp (which is not relevant to sparging grains)

Good to see you have been reading 'how to brew' and I would suggest you follow Palmer's techniques that you read in there.

The cracked grain you have will be fine to steep. Once it's cracked its good to go! 

Good luck! Hope it's tasty :beerbang:


----------



## wbosher

Juzdu said:


> I've been browsing around for quite a while in the hope of not having to ask this question...i so hate being a newbie at something. But here goes:
> 
> The recipe database on this forum confuses me a bit...for example Dr Smurto's Golden Ale recipe page lists all the grains and hops necessary to make this beer. But it doesn't say "how". Let me explain...given my newness to all of this, and having done a few kit beers, i'd like to try DSGA as my first full extract brew. It's great that the recipe has an extract version, but i'm keen to know some missing info. For example:
> 1. How much water do I put in the pot to steep my Crystal grain?
> 2. What temperature should I be steeping at, and for how long?
> 3. I plan on using a grain bag, should I sparge the grain, and if so, with how much water?
> 
> Do I just follow something like John Palmer's How to Brew? Section 2 suggests steeping 500gm of grain in 4 litres of 70'ish degree water for 30 minutes in a grain bag (which I have). It doesn't suggest sparging though, rather just squeezing the bag after you remove it.
> 
> Oh and lastly, the crystal grain i've purchased says it's "cracked". Does that mean it's ready to go as is into the grain bag? Or do i need to mill/crush it some more first?



There's a couple of threads in here about doing BIAB. I've just done my first AG brew using this method and it's surprisingly easy. You might want to read up on that.


----------



## Feral Shane

Juzdu said:


> I've been browsing around for quite a while in the hope of not having to ask this question...i so hate being a newbie at something. But here goes:
> 
> The recipe database on this forum confuses me a bit...for example Dr Smurto's Golden Ale recipe page lists all the grains and hops necessary to make this beer. But it doesn't say "how". Let me explain...given my newness to all of this, and having done a few kit beers, i'd like to try DSGA as my first full extract brew. It's great that the recipe has an extract version, but i'm keen to know some missing info. For example:
> 1. How much water do I put in the pot to steep my Crystal grain?
> 2. What temperature should I be steeping at, and for how long?
> 3. I plan on using a grain bag, should I sparge the grain, and if so, with how much water?
> 
> Do I just follow something like John Palmer's How to Brew? Section 2 suggests steeping 500gm of grain in 4 litres of 70'ish degree water for 30 minutes in a grain bag (which I have). It doesn't suggest sparging though, rather just squeezing the bag after you remove it.
> 
> Oh and lastly, the crystal grain i've purchased says it's "cracked". Does that mean it's ready to go as is into the grain bag? Or do i need to mill/crush it some more first?



Juz, you have just taken the first step on the slippery slide to making the best beer you can. JP's (I say that like I know him) How to Brew is a great reference for starting out. Read as much as you can and give it a go. If you are at this stage you won't make a bad beer. I will give you one piece of advice though, take notes, write down everything or put it in your computer as you go. One day you will make a beer and you will say this is it; I want this to be my house beer but if you didn't take specific notes you won't be able to replicate it.


----------



## Dunkelbrau

Well, I finally got around to doing the kit version of this bad boy, I'm going to do a couple of mini BIABs until I get back from a holiday in march next year and get a burner and a big ass pot. 

ATM i just have the 19L big w pot to get me over the hump.

Did 3 additions of 20g at 15, 5 & 0.. Hopefully she's a happy camper.


----------



## Juzdu

So after 3 successful kit brews, I think it's time to move to a partial/extract brew. Again i've done a ton of reading....but I get the feeling i'm thinking about this too much, so I may just have to jump in and brew the extract version of this DSGA tomorrow. I haven't been able to find any solid info around what volume of water I should steep the 250gm of "MALT GRAIN CRYSTAL CRACKED (EBC 115-145)" into before starting my boil...some people saying 3 litres for every 1kg of grain (but that means i'd only need 750ml of water for my 250gm grain). Others saying the volume of water for steeping doesn't make much of a difference to the end result. So here's what i'm going to do....(my biggest pot at the moment holds a little over 7 litres, and i'm using my gas kitchen stove-top):

Target: 21 litres, OG 1.047, FG 1.014, ABV 4.8%. IBU 32, EBC 12.4

*Ingredients:*
250gm crystal cracked malt grain
1.5kg unhopped Coopers Wheat Malt extract
1.5kg unhopped Coopers Light Malt extract
50gm Amarillo hops
US-05 yeast

*Method:*
Boil 7 litres of water in my pot, then add it to the fermenter to cool.

Heat 4 litres of water to 65 degrees on full flame
Lower the flame so it keeps heating, but slowly
Add the 250gm cracked crystal malt grain in a hop/grain bag, start timer
When heat approaches 75, turn off the flame
Dunk/swirl the grain bag every now and then, make sure temp doesn't drop below 65
While steeping, re-hydrate the yeast
When timer reaches 30 minutes, remove grain bag and allow to drain

Add 1.5 litres of boiling water from kettle to make 5.5 litres total in pot
Bring the 5.5 litres to boil, once boiling switch off heat
Add both cans of malt extract, stir until completely dissolved
Return to the boil, stirring occasionally, being careful to avoid a boil-over
Continue boiling until I see the "hot break" (kinda hoping this is obvious given I haven't seen it before).
Once the hot break has occurred, add 20gm Amarillo, boil for 60 minutes
With 15 minutes left of the 60, add 15gm of Amarillo
With 5 minutes left, add the final 15gm Amarillo

Once the 60 minutes is up, drop the pot into an ice bath in my laundry sink, wait for it to drop to around 25 degrees.

Give the 7 litres of boiled water in my fermenter a good aeration
Pour the cooled wort from my pot (down to 5l or so?) through a stainless steel colander into the fermenter
Check the temperature of the 12 litres in the fermenter. Add hot/cold water from the tap to get it up to 21 litres at around 24 degrees.
Pitch the re-hydrated US-05 yeast

Any glaring omissions here? There's a couple of mysteries I'm hoping to learn the answers to, such as what a hot break looks like and when it happens, and is 5.5 litres of 'rolling boil' too much in a 7.5 litre pot.....also how the 5 odd litres of wort will strain through the colander. Certainly sounds like fun anyway....


----------



## drsmurto

Juzdu said:


> So after 3 successful kit brews, I think it's time to move to a partial/extract brew. Again i've done a ton of reading....but I get the feeling i'm thinking about this too much, so I may just have to jump in and brew the extract version of this DSGA tomorrow. I haven't been able to find any solid info around what volume of water I should steep the 250gm of "MALT GRAIN CRYSTAL CRACKED (EBC 115-145)" into before starting my boil...some people saying 3 litres for every 1kg of grain (but that means i'd only need 750ml of water for my 250gm grain). Others saying the volume of water for steeping doesn't make much of a difference to the end result. So here's what i'm going to do....(my biggest pot at the moment holds a little over 7 litres, and i'm using my gas kitchen stove-top):
> 
> Target: 21 litres, OG 1.047, FG 1.014, ABV 4.8%. IBU 32, EBC 12.4
> 
> *Ingredients:*
> 250gm crystal cracked malt grain
> 1.5kg unhopped Coopers Wheat Malt extract
> 1.5kg unhopped Coopers Light Malt extract
> 50gm Amarillo hops
> US-05 yeast
> 
> *Method:*
> Boil 7 litres of water in my pot, then add it to the fermenter to cool.
> 
> Heat 4 litres of water to 65 degrees on full flame
> Lower the flame so it keeps heating, but slowly
> Add the 250gm cracked crystal malt grain in a hop/grain bag, start timer
> When heat approaches 75, turn off the flame
> Dunk/swirl the grain bag every now and then, make sure temp doesn't drop below 65
> While steeping, re-hydrate the yeast
> When timer reaches 30 minutes, remove grain bag and allow to drain
> 
> Add 1.5 litres of boiling water from kettle to make 5.5 litres total in pot
> Bring the 5.5 litres to boil, once boiling switch off heat
> Add both cans of malt extract, stir until completely dissolved
> Return to the boil, stirring occasionally, being careful to avoid a boil-over
> Continue boiling until I see the "hot break" (kinda hoping this is obvious given I haven't seen it before).
> Once the hot break has occurred, add 20gm Amarillo, boil for 60 minutes
> With 15 minutes left of the 60, add 15gm of Amarillo
> With 5 minutes left, add the final 15gm Amarillo
> 
> Once the 60 minutes is up, drop the pot into an ice bath in my laundry sink, wait for it to drop to around 25 degrees.
> 
> Give the 7 litres of boiled water in my fermenter a good aeration
> Pour the cooled wort from my pot (down to 5l or so?) through a stainless steel colander into the fermenter
> Check the temperature of the 12 litres in the fermenter. Add hot/cold water from the tap to get it up to 21 litres at around 24 degrees.
> Pitch the re-hydrated US-05 yeast
> 
> Any glaring omissions here? There's a couple of mysteries I'm hoping to learn the answers to, such as what a hot break looks like and when it happens, and is 5.5 litres of 'rolling boil' too much in a 7.5 litre pot.....also how the 5 odd litres of wort will strain through the colander. Certainly sounds like fun anyway....



Close.

You can use beersmith/brewmate etc to do the calculations for you to take into account the actual AA% of the amarillo you are using.

20g of amarillo as a bittering amount is a guesstimation but one that assumes a full volume boil. If you are doing less than a full volume boil you'll need to make adjustments for that. I don't having any brewing software in front of me so I can't do that right now. You need to tell it your total batch size as well as your boil volume since these aren't the same.

If you add all the fermentables to the boil you'll end up with a very high OG and your hop utilisation will be very low so you'll end up underbittering by a long way.

As a guide, aim to add enough fermentables to get the starting SG of the boil to ~1.040. As you are using already boiled malt in the form of extract you can boil with the lid on as DMS is not an issue. You can tell beersmith (and presumably other brewing software) when you are adding extract to the boil - before or after. This allows you to tell it exactly what the gravity is that you are boiling the hops in.

I'd be pitching the yeast at or below 20C, not 24C. 

You shouldn't really see hot break when boiling extract as the boil and consequently, hot break will have already been formed and removed. You may get a small amount from the crystal malt. 

5.5L boil in a 7L pot will keep you on your toes.

Have fun!

Cheers
DrSmurto

Steeping grains - volume you use to steep is not particularly important. I would use 1L for 250g for no reason in particular. I would also rinse with another 1L of water (a sparge of sorts).


----------



## Juzdu

DrSmurto said:


> 20g of amarillo as a bittering amount is a guesstimation but one that assumes a full volume boil. If you are doing less than a full volume boil you'll need to make adjustments for that.



Ah ok, thanks, I hadn't realised that the gravity of the wort during boil made a difference to the IBU's added by the hops. I think you've helped me understand the "Hop Concentration Factor" on IanP's "Kit & Extract Beer Designer" spreadsheet...I had always wondered what the 'boil volume' and HCF were about.

It looks like if I put my boil volume in as 5 litres (after steeping my grain in a litre of water as you suggested), that I have to add roughly 500gm of LME to bring it up to a 1.040 gravity. Then I need to adjust the hop additions slightly to get to an IBU of 31. Here's the adjusted method, I think this addresses each of your concerns.

*Method:*

Boil 7 litres of water in my pot, then add it to the fermenter to cool.

Heat 1 litre of water to 65 degrees
Lower the flame so it keeps heating, but slowly
Add the 250gm cracked crystal malt grain in a grain bag, start timer
When heat approaches 75, turn off the flame
Dunk/swirl the grain bag every now and then, make sure temp doesn't drop below 65
While steeping, re-hydrate the yeast
When timer reaches 30 minutes, remove grain bag and allow to drain. Rinse grain back into pot with 1 litre of ~70 degree water

Add ~3 litres of boiling water from kettle to make 5 litres total in pot
Bring the 5 litres to boil, once boiling switch off heat
Add ~500gm LME, stir until completely dissolved
Return to the boil, stirring occasionally, being careful to avoid a boil-over
Once a 'rolling boil' is achieved, add 40gm Amarillo, boil for 60 minutes
With 10 minutes left of the 60, add 10gm of Amarillo

Once the 60 minutes is up, put the pot into an ice bath in my laundry sink, wait for it to drop to around 25 degrees.

Give the 7 litres of boiled water in my fermenter a good aeration
Add the rest of the LME (2.5kg) to the fermenter and mix it all in
Pour the cooled wort from my pot through a stainless steel colander into the fermenter
Check the temperature of the 12 litres in the fermenter. Add hot/cold water from the tap to get it up to 21 litres at around 20 degrees.
Pitch the re-hydrated US-05 yeast

-----------------

I'm curious on the remaining 2.5kg of LME, should I add that to the fermenter at the start, when i add the 7 litres of boiled water? Or should I add it at the same time as I add the boiled wort, at the end? I need the water hot enough for it to dissolve, so that's why i'm thinking to add it first....but then I have that mixture sitting in the fermenter for a couple of hours while steeping my grain then boiling the wort. Problem?


----------



## Diesel80

Juzdu said:


> I'm curious on the remaining 2.5kg of LME, should I add that to the fermenter at the start, when i add the 7 litres of boiled water? Or should I add it at the same time as I add the boiled wort, at the end? I need the water hot enough for it to dissolve, so that's why i'm thinking to add it first....but then I have that mixture sitting in the fermenter for a couple of hours while steeping my grain then boiling the wort. Problem?



I see nothing wrong with this.
Don't suppose much will happen to 7L of near boiling wort in a couple of hours.
It might get a bit cooler, but I see no problems. It is like no chilling in a cube heaps of headspace.

Should remain hot enough to stay 'pasturised' for a few hours.

Cheers,
D80


----------



## drsmurto

Only 10g amarillo as a late addition in a 20L batch? 

Do you have any other hops you could use for bittering to allow you to use the amarillo for flavour/aroma? If so, adjust and add 20g at 15 mins and 30g at flameout. I don't use amarillo as the bittering hop in a GA these days, particularly given how hard it is to source. Save it for flavour and aroma and use something high AA% like Magnum or your preferred bittering hop.

Dump all the remaining fermentables in the pot after flameout, stir. If it won't all fit then dissolve them in a separate pot and cool that down too.

Other than that I think you are on track. You can download beersmith for free for a trial period and brewmate i beleive is free although i have never used it. Both of these allow for full extract calculations. Beersmith definitely has the capability of taking into account boil volumes vs batch volume. Worth the investment IMO.


----------



## Juzdu

DrSmurto said:


> Only 10g amarillo as a late addition in a 20L batch?
> 
> Do you have any other hops you could use for bittering to allow you to use the amarillo for flavour/aroma? If so, adjust and add 20g at 15 mins and 30g at flameout. I don't use amarillo as the bittering hop in a GA these days, particularly given how hard it is to source. Save it for flavour and aroma and use something high AA% like Magnum or your preferred bittering hop.
> 
> Dump all the remaining fermentables in the pot after flameout, stir. If it won't all fit then dissolve them in a separate pot and cool that down too.
> 
> Other than that I think you are on track. You can download beersmith for free for a trial period and brewmate i beleive is free although i have never used it. Both of these allow for full extract calculations. Beersmith definitely has the capability of taking into account boil volumes vs batch volume. Worth the investment IMO.


This is my first ever brew with adding my own grain and hops, I only bought what I thought the recipe called for...I saw "add 15gm of Amarillo @ 15, 5 and dry hop". Looking at your recipe again I think I must have missed the bit where you said if doing it as full extract rather than kit, add 20gm of Amarillo as bittering hops @ 60 minutes. I only have a 50gm bag of Amarillo and 500gm bag of Crystal Malt 120. The grain is already cracked, so I think i'm supposed to use it pretty quickly. I've already had it sitting in my pantry for 2 weeks. Perhaps i'll nick out today and grab some more hops. I wonder if those un-refrigerated ones from Costante will be any good.


----------



## mikeybycrikey

What a great recipe, did the pilsener version, unfortunately couldn't find amarillo so used citra. Just had first glass from the keg and it's delightful (bit thin but that was my problem, FG=1.002 woooops) Cheers for sharing Dr Smurto


----------



## Camo1234

Ok so I threw this one down today as I was home whilst the aircon guys were installing my aircon... Got about 50 mins into the boil, 60min addition was in for 20mins and they needed to turn the electricity off! Well that stuffed me and by BIAB urn!
I have the urn off now as they will need to turn the elect off again for a while soon but not sure what to do with the rest of the boil.... I still have 40mins to go and the rest of my hop additions but not sure how the 60 min addition will react from here???
Do I just bring it to the boil again and go for the next 40 mins like nothing happened or should I make some adjustments to my 10 and 5 min additions?
Spewing as this is half of my last packet of Amirrillo and everyone seems to be out now!


----------



## vortex

Don't have a gas stove and some pots?


----------



## Camo1234

vortex said:


> Don't have a gas stove and some pots?



Only got a 20ltr pot.... Get my 100 Ltr pot tomorrow though!


----------



## stux

Camo1234 said:


> Ok so I threw this one down today as I was home whilst the aircon guys were installing my aircon... Got about 50 mins into the boil, 60min addition was in for 20mins and they needed to turn the electricity off! Well that stuffed me and by BIAB urn!
> I have the urn off now as they will need to turn the elect off again for a while soon but not sure what to do with the rest of the boil.... I still have 40mins to go and the rest of my hop additions but not sure how the 60 min addition will react from here???
> Do I just bring it to the boil again and go for the next 40 mins like nothing happened or should I make some adjustments to my 10 and 5 min additions?
> Spewing as this is half of my last packet of Amirrillo and everyone seems to be out now!



Restart your boil, treat your 60 min addition as a 90 minute addition for hop calculations

Personally, I'd just finish the boil and chalk it up as a learning experience... might be the best brew you ever made


----------



## Camo1234

Stux said:


> Restart your boil, treat your 60 min addition as a 90 minute addition for hop calculations
> 
> Personally, I'd just finish the boil and chalk it up as a learning experience... might be the best brew you ever made



I like that idea!


----------



## sp0rk

I did my first AG yesterday, a biab of DSGA
i did a yeast starter, but not sure if it's good or not (it has a lot of trub in it)
should i risk the starter being funky, or pitch a single fresh pack of US05 on it?

I've also got 2 x 10g packs of West Coast Ale Yeast (guessing danstar BRY-97) that MHB sent me free, would i better off pitching both of these to make sure i have enough yeast cells?


also forgot to raise the temp for the mash out...


Stuff it, in goes the US 05

(the starter is going into a 5l bacon ESB experiment)


----------



## vortex

sp0rk said:


> also forgot to raise the temp for the mash out...


Don't worry about it. The enzymes will have been denatured in the kettle anyway. Most people generally don't bother with mash out.


----------



## adz1179

hey guys

have a DSGA fermenting at the moment. ended up with 23lts of 1.040 instead of 20lts at around 1.045 and i mashed in at around 70 expecting the usual 3-4 degree drop i get with my system but it held at 68 degrees for the 60 min mash, i wasn't too worried about either of these points until now...

day 5 of fermentation and the fermenter looks like its full of a caramel milkshake. when i take a gravity sample im getting heaps of froth also. both of which i have not seen in my 10-15 AG brews. using the standard recipe BIAB.

again, im not overly worried as the smell and taste is great... but what would cause either of these issues? and is there anything i can / should do now. was maybe thinking of hitting it with some gelatin and CC for 1 week around 1 deg


----------



## carniebrew

adz1179 said:


> hey guys
> 
> have a DSGA fermenting at the moment. ended up with 23lts of 1.040 instead of 20lts at around 1.045 and i mashed in at around 70 expecting the usual 3-4 degree drop i get with my system but it held at 68 degrees for the 60 min mash, i wasn't too worried about either of these points until now...
> 
> day 5 of fermentation and the fermenter looks like its full of a caramel milkshake. when i take a gravity sample im getting heaps of froth also. both of which i have not seen in my 10-15 AG brews. using the standard recipe BIAB.
> 
> again, im not overly worried as the smell and taste is great... but what would cause either of these issues? and is there anything i can / should do now. was maybe thinking of hitting it with some gelatin and CC for 1 week around 1 deg


Did you use US-05 yeast? How did you pitch it?


----------



## adz1179

carniebrew said:


> Did you use US-05 yeast? How did you pitch it?



Yes. Us-05. Rehydrated for 30mins in cooled (room temp) boiled water. 

Poured the wort into the fermenter getting as much oxygen as possible, added the yeast halfway through.


----------



## waggastew

I recently brewed a low gravity ale using US05 that looked much the same at that roughly that time. Mine cleared a few days after reaching terminal gravity. I think it was just lots of happy yeast busily doing there thing.


----------



## carniebrew

adz1179 said:


> Yes. Us-05. Rehydrated for 30mins in cooled (room temp) boiled water.
> 
> Poured the wort into the fermenter getting as much oxygen as possible, added the yeast halfway through.


Are you planning to rack it to a secondary? Perhaps it'll need to spend an extended time in the secondary clearing up.


----------



## adz1179

carniebrew said:


> Are you planning to rack it to a secondary? Perhaps it'll need to spend an extended time in the secondary clearing up.



Thanks for the replies wagastew and carnie. 

Wasn't planning on secondary, but if it will help?


----------



## sama

Just yeast mate.Brews using so5 that I've made take a fair time to clear,after 5 days in that sort of clarity is to be expected. Never had a clear fermentor like that tho,so never really seen through the side like that,looks very yeasty,should come up great after a couple weeks.ie day 15.....you weren't gonna pull it out of there yet were you?


----------



## adz1179

sama said:


> Just yeast mate.Brews using so5 that I've made take a fair time to clear,after 5 days in that sort of clarity is to be expected. Never had a clear fermentor like that tho,so never really seen through the side like that,looks very yeasty,should come up great after a couple weeks.ie day 15.....you weren't gonna pull it out of there yet were you?



Nah will let her settle out. Cheers mate


----------



## drsmurto

:chug:


adz1179 said:


> hey guys
> 
> have a DSGA fermenting at the moment. ended up with 23lts of 1.040 instead of 20lts at around 1.045 and i mashed in at around 70 expecting the usual 3-4 degree drop i get with my system but it held at 68 degrees for the 60 min mash, i wasn't too worried about either of these points until now...
> 
> day 5 of fermentation and the fermenter looks like its full of a caramel milkshake. when i take a gravity sample im getting heaps of froth also. both of which i have not seen in my 10-15 AG brews. using the standard recipe BIAB.
> 
> again, im not overly worried as the smell and taste is great... but what would cause either of these issues? and is there anything i can / should do now. was maybe thinking of hitting it with some gelatin and CC for 1 week around 1 deg
> 
> View attachment 59080
> 
> 
> View attachment 59081



Looks exactly like I expect a 5 day ferment using US05 to look like (cloudy) although the colour seems low for a golden ale. 

I'd leave it for a minimum of 10 days at fermentation temperature raising the temperature (if you can) to 20C for the last 3-4 days. Then crash chill, you don't need to rack if you don't want to. If you can't chill it leave it a few more days and add gelatine if you want very clear beer. 3 weeks on the yeast is not an issue.

Patience/time is the cure for many brewing 'issues' but is the hardest part of brewing.

I have a GA ccing at the moment. Tasted it prior to ccing and got the grin factor (rye, victoria, WY1272). I am trying hard to resist kegging it as it is supposed to be a xmas beer but everytime i go near the shed i hear the sirens calling me. 

The lower OG will be balanced somewhat by the higher mash temperature so should result in a lower ABV beer that is very drinkable. :chug:


----------



## adz1179

DrSmurto said:


> :chug:
> 
> Looks exactly like I expect a 5 day ferment using US05 to look like (cloudy) although the colour seems low for a golden ale.
> 
> I'd leave it for a minimum of 10 days at fermentation temperature raising the temperature (if you can) to 20C for the last 3-4 days. Then crash chill, you don't need to rack if you don't want to. If you can't chill it leave it a few more days and add gelatine if you want very clear beer. 3 weeks on the yeast is not an issue.
> 
> Patience/time is the cure for many brewing 'issues' but is the hardest part of brewing.
> 
> I have a GA ccing at the moment. Tasted it prior to ccing and got the grin factor (rye, victoria, WY1272). I am trying hard to resist kegging it as it is supposed to be a xmas beer but everytime i go near the shed i hear the sirens calling me.
> 
> The lower OG will be balanced somewhat by the higher mash temperature so should result in a lower ABV beer that is very drinkable. :chug:



Thanks Doc. As I said, smell and taste is great. Can't wait to get it kegged. Will follow your advice above, at what point here should I dry hop? Was going to do it now after the bulk of primary ferment is done.


----------



## lukasfab

hard to get fresh amarillo, last batch I done is lacking hop aroma/flavour due to the shit hops from the lhbs

has anyone subbed amarillo for anything else?


----------



## Dan Pratt

wednesday night i brewed this recipe for the 2nd time, this time with my brand new 20lt Braumister from MHB. 

I called it the *Eleventh Hr Dr Smurto* - due to the LATE hop additions and the fact i pitched the yeast at 11pm. 

Recipe Specifications--------------------------
Boil Size: 32 l
Post Boil Volume: 27 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 23 l 
Estimated OG: 1.049
Color: 19 SRM
IBU: 29 IBUs
Efficiency: 80. 00 %
Boil Time: 65 Minutes
Batch Sparged: 9lt @ 75 degree over 15mins

Ingredients:------------
2.8kg Premium Pilsner GER 
0.95kg Pale Wheat GER
1.10 kg Munich Light 
0.20 kg Caramunich T2

34g Amarillo @ 20mins 19 Ibu
27g Amarillo @ 10mins 9 Ibu
27gAmarilloa @ 1min 1Ibu

Total Grain Weight: 5.15kg

---------------------------
Mash in @ 40 Hydration rest @ 40 10 mins
Protein rest @ 52 15 mins
B amalayse @ 66 60 mins
A amalayse @ 72 15 mins
Mash out @ 78 15 mins

Wyeast 1272 - American Ale 2 - Nov 2012 
Stir plate with 1lt starter

I used my newly made immersion chiller to cool after boil, its 18meters of annealed 1/2 inch copper pipe running 15 litres per minute at 23 degree, Whirlpooed the wort, chilled from 100 to 50 in 3 mins 20 sec......


----------



## slash22000

lukasfab said:


> hard to get fresh amarillo, last batch I done is lacking hop aroma/flavour due to the shit hops from the lhbs
> 
> has anyone subbed amarillo for anything else?



Not in a golden ale, but I've subbed Rakau for Amarillo in an IPA I'm making at the moment as per random Google advice. Amarillo is described as having "stone fruit" flavour while Rakau is described as having "peach" flavour so I'd imagine they're at least _somewhat _similar.


----------



## Dan Pratt

lukasfab said:


> hard to get fresh amarillo, last batch I done is lacking hop aroma/flavour due to the shit hops from the lhbs
> 
> has anyone subbed amarillo for anything else?



I think that the Doc refered to Victoria Hops on his recent post>>

"have a GA ccing at the moment. Tasted it prior to ccing and got the grin factor (rye, victoria, WY1272)"


----------



## drsmurto

adz1179 said:


> Thanks Doc. As I said, smell and taste is great. Can't wait to get it kegged. Will follow your advice above, at what point here should I dry hop? Was going to do it now after the bulk of primary ferment is done.



Now would be fine assuming SG is close to 1.012. 




lukasfab said:


> hard to get fresh amarillo, last batch I done is lacking hop aroma/flavour due to the shit hops from the lhbs
> 
> has anyone subbed amarillo for anything else?



Used many different hops in this recipe, most american 'c hops' (cascade, centennial, columbus and combinations of them plus amarillo), many NZ hops, even galaxy. Victoria is a variety i grow, not available commercially as far as i can tell. My favourite hop, think loquats (mango, peach).


----------



## sp0rk

DrSmurto said:


> Now would be fine assuming SG is close to 1.012.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Used many different hops in this recipe, most american 'c hops' (cascade, centennial, columbus and combinations of them plus amarillo), many NZ hops, even galaxy. Victoria is a variety i grow, not available commercially as far as i can tell. My favourite hop, think loquats (mango, peach).


So you're sending me a Victoria Rhizome for xmas, right?


----------



## drsmurto

sp0rk said:


> So you're sending me a Victoria Rhizome for xmas, right?



The hop plantation is guarded by 6 ferocious chooks, enter at your own risk.... or wait until April when i will be selling them again!


----------



## Spiesy

Just finished my first keg of this beer last night... f*ck me, best beer I've made. 

I had basically written JSGA off as a shit beer (despite liking it years ago), and I blamed it on Amarillo. How wrong was I? It's now my most favourite hop, so much so that I have a pound of 2012 Amarillo on its way to me. Such a beautiful aroma and flavour... I got peaches, beautiful, aromatic peaches... aaah!

Thank you Amarillo and thank you Dr. Smurto.


----------



## Camo1234

Spiesy said:


> Just finished my first keg of this beer last night... f*ck me, best beer I've made.
> 
> I had basically written JSGA off as a shit beer (despite liking it years ago), and I blamed it on Amarillo. How wrong was I? It's now my most favourite hop, so much so that I have a pound of 2012 Amarillo on its way to me. Such a beautiful aroma and flavour... I got peaches, beautiful, aromatic peaches... aaah!
> 
> Thank you Amarillo and thank you Dr. Smurto.




Where are you getting the 2012 Amarillo from?


----------



## vortex

Camo1234 said:


> Where are you getting the 2012 Amarillo from?


Nige at Brew Adelaide has some. Got me a kilo


----------



## Camo1234

vortex said:


> Nige at Brew Adelaide has some. Got me a kilo




How do they rate compared to previous Amarillo? I got some recently that didn't smell as fresh as previous ones such as the 2010.... Do they smell nice and crisp?


----------



## Spiesy

Camo1234 said:


> Where are you getting the 2012 Amarillo from?


Hey mate, got them from Wholesale Hops. Ordered on 3rd December and they arrived last week!


----------



## drsmurto

Tapped a rye victoria golden ale last night. 

Homegrown Victoria never fails to excite me in a way no other hop can :icon_drool2: 

My timing is pretty good too as the Victoria hop plants have started forming cones :beerbang:


----------



## stux

DrSmurto said:


> Tapped a rye victoria golden ale last night.
> 
> Homegrown Victoria never fails to excite me in a way no other hop can :icon_drool2:
> 
> My timing is pretty good too as the Victoria hop plants have started forming cones :beerbang:



Hey doc, last two years of chinook has failed me, can you put me down for some Victoria this year please 

(Don't want to miss out again!)


----------



## Wolfman

Have both the original version and a galaxy version in the FV as I type. Can't wait to get home from holidays!


----------



## carniebrew

I just cracked my first one of these after 10 days of bottle conditioning (yes i'm impatient). Carbonation was perfect, not too high, so hopefully it's mostly done (bulk primed 21 litres with 140 grams of raw sugar boiled in 250ml water).

I did this as a full extract, with a partial boil of about 7 litres. The boil was done with only 800 grams of extract added, the rest of the extract wasn't added until flameout. I adjusted the hops up a little to compensate for the partial boil, with 30 grams @ 60, 20 grams @ 20 and 30 grams at flameout. 6 days in the primary before racking to secondary for a week.

It's a hoppy bastard, no doubt about it, but jeez it's a ripping drop. It's actually a while since i've had a James Squire Golden Ale, so hard to compare, but this drop does remind me a fair bit of Fat Yak, especially the lingering aftertaste.

Thinking this is going to age really well, if it gets the chance.


----------



## slash22000

carniebrew said:


> I adjusted the hops up a little to compensate for the partial boil, with 30 grams @ 60, 20 grams @ 20 and 30 grams at flameout.



Might be a stupid question, but is there any way to calculate adjusting hops for a partial boil? Or is it just personal experience?


----------



## evildrakey

lukasfab said:


> hard to get fresh amarillo, last batch I done is lacking hop aroma/flavour due to the shit hops from the lhbs
> 
> has anyone subbed amarillo for anything else?




I used Brambling Cross, was a disappointment...
I've used Zythos, Galaxy and Nelson Sauvarin to great success...

It's (to steal Ross' quote) a good vehicle for testing an individual hop's properties...


----------



## carniebrew

slash22000 said:


> Might be a stupid question, but is there any way to calculate adjusting hops for a partial boil? Or is it just personal experience?


Not stupid at all, it's a never ending quest for partial boilers everywhere....

Ianh's spreadsheet, the Kit & Extract Beer Designer, has a "Hop Concentration Factor" setting (based on the work of Garetz) that when turned on allows you to estimate how much adjustment you need to your hops based on your boil volume. But the discussion around this is suggesting that boil volumes getting towards 10 litres and above might be better off not using the HCF and just hopping as though it's a full boil. It's one of those YMMV situations.


----------



## carniebrew

There is just one thing that's been bugging me on this....despite this being a terrific brew, well evident by it having the highest rating of any recipe on this forum by a long shot....what is it that makes it an "English Best Bitter" rather than an American Pale Ale?

It's the US-05 yeast that makes me curious. Wouldn't an English Best Bitter normally need an S-04, WLP002/5 type of yeast?


----------



## drsmurto

carniebrew said:


> There is just one thing that's been bugging me on this....despite this being a terrific brew, well evident by it having the highest rating of any recipe on this forum by a long shot....what is it that makes it an "English Best Bitter" rather than an American Pale Ale?
> 
> It's the US-05 yeast that makes me curious. Wouldn't an English Best Bitter normally need an S-04, WLP002/5 type of yeast?



It's been debated before if you go back to the first few pages of this discussion. It won the english bitter section at ANAWBS in 2008 (and beer of show). It is not an APA, not enough hops and too much malt. For some time there was a loophole in the entry for ANAWBS for english best bitter that allowed american hops, i think that has been closed down now.

Think of this beer as more english in style, a nice balance between the malt and hops, easy drinking, but in reality it is stuck in no mans land in between english bitter and APA and if you enter it into a BJCP comp there is no category it will do well in. I don't label it and you are not required to adhere to BJCP guidelines unless entering your beer in a comp.

Getting to the end of the rye victoria golden ale, need to brew another very soon to keep a victoria hopped beer on tap all the time.


----------



## yankinoz

slash22000 said:


> Might be a stupid question, but is there any way to calculate adjusting hops for a partial boil? Or is it just personal experience?



Use an online IBU calculator; I think this site has one. Doing a partial boil raises the gravity of the boil. Online IBU calculators ask for gravity before telling you how many IBUs will result; the higher the gravity, the more hops you need to obtain a given IBU. I've also seen a general rule that if your partial boil starts with half the volume of wort that you'll be fermenting, increase bittering hops by 20 - 25%, but that seems a bit high.

Gravity affects bittering only, not flavour aroma extraction, so there's no need to increase late hop additions.


----------



## drsmurto

Tapped another rye victoria golden ale last night using the last of the 2012 crop of Victoria. I'll be picking the 2013 crop on the weekend so the timing is great and I am easily getting enough from the plants to keep this beer on tap permanently.


----------



## Danielscott26

Hey guys im thinking of brewing this recipe again but was thinking about using another hop. What do you guys recommend?


----------



## Spiesy

Dan26 said:


> Hey guys im thinking of brewing this recipe again but was thinking about using another hop. What do you guys recommend?


Hey Dan, I reckon you could go with any fruity, American hop...

Cascade, Centennial, Chinook, Simcoe, Citra etc.

Aussie Galaxy would probably be quite nice also.


----------



## givemeamash

Doc
What is the difference between the normal brew and the rye version. Is it posted anywhere or have I missed it in previous posts?


----------



## hathro

I'd like to know this too!


----------



## Lodan

Details of the different versions (including rye) can be found here
http://brewadelaide.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=2c90600e9527aad1dcdf61e7e09f7d2d&topic=1079.0


----------



## DU99

i have made one with mosiac hops which had nice flavours.


----------



## Joel Mcleod

I've got 90g of Sylva I was thinking of using. Any thoughts?


----------



## Dan Pratt

Here is a heads up for everyone.....if it doesn't have Amarillo.....it's not a DSGA. End of story!!!


----------



## Scottye

Being unable to find a partial recipe for this beer I brewed this
21 litres
1.8kg Maris Otter
0.7kg Munich
0.7kg Dry Wheat Malt Extract
250g Crystal 60
35g Challenger at 60 minutes
30g Amarillo at 15 minutes
20g Amarillo at 1 minute
Wyeast 1968
Mashed at 66'C
7 litre sparge at 74'C
14 litre boil
OG 1.041
SG 1.009
ABV 4.3%

It was my best brew to date, thanks Doc for the inspiration. I have since purchased BeerSmith and intend to have a crack at a scaled version of the original recipe as I am limited by my 19l cooler and pot.


----------



## Kingy

Brewing up a 20 litre batch tomoz of this 2.4pils 800gms wheat 800 t1 and 250gms caramunich.
Got some Amarillo,
Does anyone want to give me a bit of help with hop schedule if I was to no chill.
Cheers


----------



## pajs

Kingy said:


> Brewing up a 20 litre batch tomoz of this 2.4pils 800gms wheat 800 t1 and 250gms caramunich.
> Got some Amarillo,
> Does anyone want to give me a bit of help with hop schedule if I was to no chill.
> Cheers


Kingy, just did one of these (small batch, BIAB no chill) and did a 60, 10, 0 minute hop schedule, 1/3 at each time, aiming for 34-35 IBU (using Brewmate with the no-chill box checked). Was a rye version, with a small amount of carabohemian instead of caramunich.


----------



## Kingy

Nice, never used brew mate before, just had a go. Good program!!
Think I'm gunna go 20gms at 60 20gms at flame out then dry hop 20gms


----------



## DU99

:icon_offtopic: read this article about DSGA his fav variation does not use amarillo


----------



## pajs

DU99 said:


> :icon_offtopic: read this article about DSGA his fav variation does not use amarillo


Bottled a Rye version of the DGSA last night (using Amarillo) and it was tasty already.


----------



## Kingy

I just dry hopped mine today, my mouth is watering already already can't wait to chill, keg and force carb then pour down my throat. Been a long time since I brewed an all Amarillo ale


----------



## pajs

Not that long in bottle, but this recipe done the rye & Amarillo way is very tasty. Love the way rye malt changes the mouthfeel & the rye flavour complements the fruity Amarillo really well.


----------



## philmud

Got a DSGA planned for the weekend with Golden Promise as the base malt. Am toying with the idea of NS for bittering at 40mins with some late summer saaz (20 and 5) to about 35 IBU. I'm not after a big hop presence, just some fruitiness to compliment the malt. Also have some Amarillo, cascade & simcoe as well as some bravo at my disposal, so not limited to NS & Summer. Thoughts?


----------



## lukencode

Prince Imperial said:


> Got a DSGA planned for the weekend with Golden Promise as the base malt. Am toying with the idea of NS for bittering at 40mins with some late summer saaz (20 and 5) to about 35 IBU. I'm not after a big hop presence, just some fruitiness to compliment the malt. Also have some Amarillo, cascade & simcoe as well as some bravo at my disposal, so not limited to NS & Summer. Thoughts?


A mate of mine did a Pacific Ale style beer with a big chunk of summer - real nice drop but the hop flavour faded pretty quickly. I would be tempted to pair it with something.


----------



## philmud

I've only used it in a saison & I'm not sure exactly what was hops and what was yeast! Endeavour did a summer ale with it last year & it was very nice & subdued. I don't want to pair it with anything that will overshadow it, which I'm worried citra or Amarillo would. Maybe I'll bitter with cascade & pair it with a small amount of a Nelson?


----------



## lukencode

Ha I used summer in a saison along with proper saaz recently too! Have the exact same issue distinguishing flavours, nice though. I'd be tempted to do something like 1/3 cascade 2/3 summer for flavour.


----------



## philmud

I brewed this last night & used up some left over chinook for bittering, then 14g summer & 10g Nelson at 20 mins and another 14g summer at 5 mins. I'll see how it tastes when it's close to FG, but may also dry hop with more summer.


----------



## Topher

Got the version from beersmith (wheat, Munich, caramunich and a nice English pearl malt) mashing now. 

What hops should I chuck in? First version was all Amarillo and was brilliant. But as well as Amarillo I also have citra, por and some EK goldings here. 

Anyone done experiments with particularly citra in dsga?


----------



## danestead

Topher said:


> Got the version from beersmith (wheat, Munich, caramunich and a nice English pearl malt) mashing now.
> 
> What hops should I chuck in? First version was all Amarillo and was brilliant. But as well as Amarillo I also have citra, por and some EK goldings here.
> 
> Anyone done experiments with particularly citra in dsga?


I havent, however I've done his rye version golden ale with victorias secret. Personally id be going with the citra, its along the same lines and amarillo, vic secret etc.


----------



## Topher

The good doctor bitters to 30IBU with magnum. Could I sub POR or just use the Amarillo?


----------



## danestead

Topher said:


> The good doctor bitters to 30IBU with magnum. Could I sub POR or just use the Amarillo?


Im not experienced in POR but have done this recipe as is, will all amarillo additions and its always been awesome so id be going for amarillo, however, like I said, I havent used POR.


----------



## Topher

Thanks! Yep I worked out I have enough Amarillo so I will stick with what I know for this one.


----------



## BrutusB

Hi All, 

I'm about to do my first AG brew with my 3V setup and think this recipe is a good starter. Instead of Amarillo I'd like to break it up with Galaxy but I'm a bit worried about how bitter it will be when Galaxy is used solely through the whole boil.

Would something like the below be safer? 

20 g Cascade (Motueka even?) (60mins)
15 g Cascade (Motueka even?) (10mins)
15 g Galaxy (5mins)
15 g Galaxy (0mins)


----------



## Pirate323i

What an epic thread! I have decided this will be my cherry popping all grain, and the first brew on my Braumiser... (Not to be confused with the genuine article!)
I'm thinking I will base it on the award winning recipe but with whatever grain my lhbs has (brand/country of origin wise) will hopefully brew on night this week! 
Fingers crossed!!!


----------



## philmud

Prince Imperial said:


> I brewed this last night & used up some left over chinook for bittering, then 14g summer & 10g Nelson at 20 mins and another 14g summer at 5 mins. I'll see how it tastes when it's close to FG, but may also dry hop with more summer.


I'm drinking this now. It's nice, but IMO the NS is overbearing. Summer is such a delicate little flower! Next time I'll leave the Nelson out.


----------



## slcmorro

Does anyone have any thoughts on how using Golden Promise over Pils/Trad would make this beer better/worse?


----------



## Tahoose

Should in theory give it a nicer malt flavour, I'm sure somebody in the last 47 pages has done it 

I've only done this wih trad ale as the base and it's always been good. If that's what you have on hand just use that.


----------



## slcmorro

Well I have Pils, GP and BB Pale. Was thinking of trying GP as it might impart a nice toasty biscuit flavour to it, which I would imagine would be complementary to the beer.


----------



## hathro

From the doctor himself:

"MO and GP - This beer is balanced between malt and hops so it needs a good malt backbone and over the years I have come to the conclusion that Australian malt can't provide that. It's not malted with that in mind; no commercial beer brewed on a large scale has a real malt backbone (IMHO). English beers have that character in spades and hence their malt is malted with that in mind. The same philosophy applies to Vienna and Munich malts which are available in Australian versions but I find them lacking. I prefer quality over cost saving."

source: http://homebrewandbeer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11013


----------



## Tahoose

Yeah I think it would work nicely, pils was used for the original version but it was subbed out reasonably quickly. 

Given the mash temp and the sort of body that you are after any ale malt would be a better fit than any pils. In my amateur opinion of course.


----------



## yum beer

I'm drinking a batch of the good Docs GA ATM....MO and GP base, Amarillo, Centennial, Cascade and Simcoe.
Bloody beautiful beer, certainly way better than anything I tried at several craft venues over the last 36 hours.

EDIT: No Im sorry it was with JW Trad Ale. Thats weird unlike me not to go MO and/or GP. Next time for sure, which won't be far away.


----------



## slcmorro

I went with GP by the way 

Thanks for the help and suggestions etc.


----------



## mckenry

yum beer said:


> I'm drinking a batch of the good Docs GA ATM....MO and GP base, Amarillo, Centennial, Cascade and Simcoe.
> Bloody beautiful beer, certainly way better than anything I tried at several craft venues over the last 36 hours.
> 
> EDIT: No Im sorry it was with JW Trad Ale. Thats weird unlike me not to go MO and/or GP. Next time for sure, which won't be far away.


Amazing. I havent read this thread for years. Dr S' GA was one of my first couple of AG beers after joining this site.
Back then it was Pils, Wheat, Caramunich and Munich, with Amarillo all the way. I thought it was a damn good clone.
I'm sure your beer is very nice yum beer. It does sound good.
Is this what Dr S' GA has become somehow? Does it even resemble JSGA any more?


----------



## manticle

Well the beer that js now make (chancer is it?) doesn't really resemble the GA much anymore.


----------



## mckenry

manticle said:


> Well the beer that js now make (chancer is it?) doesn't really resemble the GA much anymore.


True. Sad but true.


----------



## yum beer

Everybody should make a batch and bottle into JS Chancer Bottles and when any 'not drinking home brew' wankers come around you can offer them a bottle of commercial craft beer.
'**** thats nice, I didn't think JS tasted like that'....
'it doesn't, do you want another.'

Just thinking I should not have taken all the labels off...I bottle mainly in JS bottles because they are readily available to a cheap home brew scrooge when hunting in the big recycle bin at the tip.


----------



## pajs

I wonder how the current version (below) would go with a Saison yeast?

55% Ale (normally TF FM MO or GP)
20% Vienna (german)
20% Rye
5% Carabohemian
Magnum @ 60 to 30 IBU
Victoria 1.5g/L @ 20 and 0
WY1272 American Ale II
Water chemistry - CaSO4 and CaCl2 added to achieve ~ Ca 90 ppm with the SO4:Cl ratio at ~1:1 starting from rainwater so no Na, Mg or CO3.
Mash - 67C for 90 mins, 78C mashout.


----------



## brewermp

This was my first AG beer and gee it tastes nice. I couldn't believe how it turned out


----------



## slcmorro

brewermp said:


> This was my first AG beer and gee it tastes nice.


Did you pour it from the second storey balcony? 

Nah, glad you're into it mate. It's a slippery slope!


----------



## brewermp

slcmorro said:


> Did you pour it from the second storey balcony?
> 
> Nah, glad you're into it mate. It's a slippery slope!


My sister asked if it was a frappe lol..

It was really bitter when I bottled it but mellowed out quite well


----------



## Nick667

I have just put a brew of this down for the first time. I cant get the hops listed in the recipe and after asking for some replacements on this forum Dr Smurto was kind enough to contact me and suggested using NZ motueka or riwaka.
I no chill and BIAB and bittered with 9gm pacific gem @40 then 20gm motueka @fo.
I want to dry hop with motueka and was wondering if anyone has gone this way before. I was thinking 20gm motueka.
I don't want it to out there with the hops and was hoping to get some quiet hop flavour.
Any advice?


----------



## mckenry

Nick667 said:


> I have just put a brew of this down for the first time. I cant get the hops listed in the recipe and after asking for some replacements on this forum Dr Smurto was kind enough to contact me and suggested using NZ motueka or riwaka.
> I no chill and BIAB and bittered with 9gm pacific gem @40 then 20gm motueka @fo.
> I want to dry hop with motueka and was wondering if anyone has gone this way before. I was thinking 20gm motueka.
> I don't want it to out there with the hops and was hoping to get some quiet hop flavour.
> Any advice?


IMO >1g/L is 'out there'. For a milder hop flavour use ~0.5g/L
Some brewers go 2g/L but to me thats up in the IPA dry hopping ballpark. This is an ave strength APA so my recommendation is to go low (10-15g for 20L) and only for 2 or 3 days at cold conditioning, before packaging. It ised to be called B Saaz and I loved it as a late hop addition at this suggested rate in the Bright Ale clones I used to make.


----------



## Nick667

> IMO >1g/L is 'out there'. For a milder hop flavour use ~0.5g/L
> Some brewers go 2g/L but to me thats up in the IPA dry hopping ballpark. This is an ave strength APA so my recommendation is to go low (10-15g for 20L) and only for 2 or 3 days at cold conditioning, before packaging. It ised to be called B Saaz and I loved it as a late hop addition at this suggested rate in the Bright Ale clones I used to make.
> [/
> 
> 
> Thanks so much for that I is a big help to have some numbers to work with.
> I've got 25L down so I will try 15g.
> I have done an ipa with large quantities of motueka and it was really nice but it can just get a bit over powering at times and almost seemed to vanish if left in the bottles to long.


----------



## Brew Forky

Nick667 said:


> I have just put a brew of this down for the first time. I cant get the hops listed in the recipe and after asking for some replacements on this forum Dr Smurto was kind enough to contact me and suggested using NZ motueka or riwaka.
> I no chill and BIAB and bittered with 9gm pacific gem @40 then 20gm motueka @fo.
> I want to dry hop with motueka and was wondering if anyone has gone this way before. I was thinking 20gm motueka.
> I don't want it to out there with the hops and was hoping to get some quiet hop flavour.
> Any advice?


I have a DGSA in the fermenting fridge at the moment using Riwaka and bittered with Magnum. Had a taste today at the 1 week mark. In my amateur opinion, Riwaka fits the bill perfectly, maybe even better than Amarillo. The proof will be in the pudding.


----------



## michaeld16

slcmorro said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts on how using Golden Promise over Pils/Trad would make this beer better/worse?


I make this one with maris otter and love the result, but then i could put mo in anything and like it, but yeah the biscuity taste goes well in my opinion


----------



## n87

Is it just me, or has this recipe disappeared from the database?


----------



## blotto

Strange, I can't find it. I'm sure I read through it the other day.


----------



## idzy

Hi Guys,

This is some of the notes I had in BeerSmith. Smurto has been active this week, he may see this and offer insights.



> *DrSmurto's Golden Ale - History, evolution and musings*
> The golden ale started out life as a JSGA clone on this very forum and was initially posted by a brewer called Pale_Ale back in Feb 2007. It didn't contain wheat or crystal and used the kit yeast.
> 
> Pale_Ale's original recipe;
> 1 can Coopers Sparkling Ale
> 1.5 kg Coopers Light Malt Extract
> 15g Amarillo @ 30 minutes
> 15g Amarillo @ 15 minutes
> 15g Amarillo @ 2 minutes
> Topped up to 20L (not 23L).
> 
> Over time on this forum, it evolved and I took it under my wing, slowly tweaking it brew by brew and turned it into the kit recipe you now see listed on AHB and other places.
> 
> The final kit version I made;
> 1 can Coopers Lager
> 1 can Coopers Wheat Malt
> 250g crystal (caramalt, caramunich, carabohemian, light/medium english crystal)
> 20g Amarillo @ 15 and 0 (sometimes listed as 15g @ 10, 5 and dry hop, i prefer the former)
> US-05
> Topped up to 20L (not 23L).
> 
> This can be converted to full extract by replacing the hopped kit with the same quantity of unhopped extract (1.7kg liquid extract) and adding a bittering hop at 60 min to 30 IBU total.
> 
> The 1st AG version which was brewed on the 8th of September, 2007 (and no, not my 1st AG, it was my 4th ).
> 
> 55% Pils
> 20% Munich I
> 20% Wheat
> 5% Caramunich II
> (All Weyermann malt)
> Amarillo @ 60 to 31 IBU
> 0.75g/L @ 10, 5 and dry hop
> US05
> Mash - 66C for 90 mins, 78C mashout.
> 
> The first major variation was several months later when i replaced the Pils with JW Trad Ale and caramunich with JW caramalt. I also had by now gotten over the tendency of new brewers to dry hop everything so the late hop schedule had become 1g/L at 20 and 0. This version was the one entered in ANAWBS in 2008 and scored 46/50 winning its category (english bitter) and beer of show. As an english bitter it exploited a loophole in the guidelines which allowed american hops. I had entered it as an APA in SABSOSA earlier that year and it scored 31.75/50 in the APA category with comments of lacking hop flavour and aroma and more of an english pale ale than american. I took that information on board and the loophole in ANAWBS and entered it as an english bitter and the rest is history. To be fair, the golden ale is not that different to an english summer ale where the beers tend to be lighter in colour and higher in hop flavour and aroma.
> 
> Award winning version
> 
> 55% JW trad ale
> 20% Weyermann Munich I
> 20% Weyermann Wheat
> 5% Caramalt
> Amarillo @ 60 to 31 IBU
> 1g/L @ 20 and 0
> US05
> Mash - 66C for 90 mins, 78C mashout.
> 
> Over the years i have used this recipe to try out new grains, hops and yeast using the ideology that by changing 1 variable at a time, you get a better understanding of the contribution of each new ingredient. Different base malts, crystal malts, hops, yeast and even water chemistry have been used. I kept the % of grain the same, the g/L of late additions the same so whilst it has changed over time to not resemble the original in many ways the ideology behind the recipe remains the same; balance. Easy drinking, balanced beer with plenty of hop flavour and aroma but also with a great malt backbone that carries through. In reality, the philosophy is english in style but using more aromatic hops (american, australian, NZ).
> 
> I used this recipe for a homegrown hop series a few years ago to compare the flavour and aroma of my homegrown hops and used the results of that to decide whether to keep or dig up hops. As a consequence of that series i now only have Victoria and Chinook in the garden. Not that the other hops were bad, they weren't, it was just a matter of space vs how much homegrown hops i wanted.
> 
> So to my current and favourite variation.
> 
> 55% Ale (normally TF FM MO or GP)
> 20% Vienna (german)
> 20% Rye
> 5% Carabohemian
> Magnum @ 60 to 30 IBU
> Victoria 1.5g/L @ 20 and 0
> WY1272 American Ale II
> Water chemistry - CaSO4 and CaCl2 added to achieve ~ Ca 90 ppm with the SO4:Cl ratio at ~1:1 starting from rainwater so no Na, Mg or CO3.
> Mash - 67C for 90 mins, 78C mashout.
> 
> Carabohemian is easily my favourite spec malt. It has 90% of the flavour of caraaroma minus the burnt toffee notes and ~ half the EBC.
> 
> Rye is an amazing grain and ever since trying my first beer with it in it I have been hooked. At this % it does increase the mouthfeel a bit making it seem more full bodied and the spicy, earthy characters comes through.
> 
> Vienna over Munich was something i stumbled upon when i ran out of munich once. Munich adds a bready/toasty character whilst Vienna is more smooth honey like whilst still adding plenty of malt backbone. I found it allowed the rye to shine through a bit better than munich.
> 
> MO and GP - This beer is balanced between malt and hops so it needs a good malt backbone and over the years I have come to the conclusion that Australian malt can't provide that. It's not malted with that in mind; no commercial beer brewed on a large scale has a real malt backbone (IMHO). English beers have that character in spades and hence their malt is malted with that in mind. The same philosophy applies to Vienna and Munich malts which are available in Australian versions but I find them lacking. I prefer quality over cost saving.
> 
> The yeast choice is quite simple. US05 is clean, easy to use and reliable but adds nothing to the beer. WY1272 adds an extra dimension with ester production. I also find it clears better.
> 
> Homegrown Victoria hops are amazing. The first time i tasted a beer that used this hop (a homebrew from the now head brewer @ MVBeer) it screamed Loquats (citrus, mango, peach). Goes beautifully with rye and I get enough from my plants to brew a number of batches each year.
> 
> So there you have it, my take on the golden ale.




Cheers,
Idzy


----------



## idzy

By the way, it is delicious and was my first AG recipe.


----------



## drsmurto

Not sure why the recipe is not in the recipeDB, my other recipes are. Hopefully the mod team can update us soon.

Meanwhile, fire away with any questions.


----------



## Moad

What is your favourite yeast with the Rye/Vienna version Doc? Still 1272?

I've gone from Aus malts to TF MO and it improved alot. I've been making it with US-05 with great results but feel it is lacking a tad and I can't quite put my finger on it


----------



## drsmurto

Wy1272 is my go to yeast but for something slightly different i sometimes use wy1187 Ringwood and even wy1469 West Yorkshire.

I haven't brewed the wheat version in years and wheat malt is not something i keep in stock. Rye all the time. I switch between vienna and munich and still play around with the crystal malt. 

Current batch on tap used Simcoe and homegrown Chinook late.


----------



## n87

This was one of my first AG's.... didnt last long
all cube hopped with Amarillo.
My computer crashed over Christmas last year and i lost my exact recipe. though i know it was only slightly tweaked from the DB version.

Thanks guys. hopfully it will reappear soon.


----------



## Denobrew

DrSmurto said:


> Not sure why the recipe is not in the recipeDB, my other recipes are. Hopefully the mod team can update us soon.
> 
> Meanwhile, fire away with any questions.


I've nee building my system for the last 2 years. I got all excited after finishing my PID controller and go to order grain last night for my first all grain brew today, come to the recipe and it's gone? I did find a saved version of the recipe but, it would be good to know where it went?


----------



## wobbly

There is this "copy" in the Beersmith cloud http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/653/dr-smurtos-golden-ale not sure if it is true to the original but at least it's a start 

Wobbly


----------



## manticle

Something odd is happening in the recipe db.
The issues have been reported but we need a response from the site owners.


----------



## Mardoo

"We're sorry, we are busy with the Narcoleptic Goat Fancy Forum at the moment. We will return to AHB as soon as we can wake the goats up."


----------



## Matplat

In your recipe that idzy posted, you say magnum at 60mins to 30IBU then victoria at 20 and 0mins. That then pushes the IBU up towards 50, is that right? or is the 30IBU meant to be the total, seems like 30IBU would be a more balanced beer...

Also, what OG do you shoot for?

Cheers, Matt


----------



## VP Brewing

Matplat said:


> In your recipe that idzy posted, you say magnum at 60mins to 30IBU then victoria at 20 and 0mins. That then pushes the IBU up towards 50, is that right? or is the 30IBU meant to be the total, seems like 30IBU would be a more balanced beer...
> 
> Also, what OG do you shoot for?
> 
> Cheers, Matt


I think you add enough 60min hops to bring it up to 30IBU.


----------



## drsmurto

Matplat said:


> In your recipe that idzy posted, you say magnum at 60mins to 30IBU then victoria at 20 and 0mins. That then pushes the IBU up towards 50, is that right? or is the 30IBU meant to be the total, seems like 30IBU would be a more balanced beer...
> 
> Also, what OG do you shoot for?
> 
> Cheers, Matt


I always work backwards with hop additions when using brewing software. 

Add 0 mins hops first which add 0 IBU then other late additions. Once they are sorted add your 60 min addition to hit your desired total IBU. In this case it is 30.

OG is 1.045 from memory.


----------



## MAX POWER

I've got the all Amarillo version currently fermenting. I have a gut feeling it is under hopped. Any suggestions regarding dry/keg hopping? Should I stick with Amarillo or use something else?

If I've undershot on the bittering, what would you suggest?


----------



## Tahoose

Could do a stove top mini boil with some DME or LME. To get your extra IBU's


----------



## Matplat

DrSmurto said:


> I always work backwards with hop additions when using brewing software.
> 
> Add 0 mins hops first which add 0 IBU then other late additions. Once they are sorted add your 60 min addition to hit your desired total IBU. In this case it is 30.
> 
> OG is 1.045 from memory.


Thanks Doc, that is as i suspected, just wanted to confirm.


----------



## peekaboo_jones

Ripper brew, it's delicious.
I made the kit version, it's a bit rough as I pitched the yeast a little high temp to get the brew underway but in the controlled fridge and I knew it would drop but not quick enough. Next time I'll wait till it drops to 18C, hope it's cleaner.
Used Amarillo hops, 15g at 15, 5 and dry hop.
Very subtle but you know it's in there.
Will keep making this as separate batches with Azacca followed by Palisade then Galaxy


----------



## warra48

As of this morning, the recipe has been restored to the Recipe Section.


----------



## Killer Brew

DrSmurto said:


> I always work backwards with hop additions when using brewing software.
> 
> Add 0 mins hops first which add 0 IBU then other late additions. Once they are sorted add your 60 min addition to hit your desired total IBU. In this case it is 30.
> 
> OG is 1.045 from memory.


That really makes a lot of sense. Embarrassingly I have never thought to do it that way around but will from now on in!


----------



## philmud

Making the rye version on the weekend, but want to use Munich instead of Vienna bc I have some to use up. Not sure whether to sub some out for more base malt, or just go with 20%.

Edit: rye, not eye


----------



## Tahoose

Just go with it. Why not.


----------



## philmud

Yeah, you're right, I'll run with it


----------



## Elz

Hi all, it is probably somewhere in this thread, however l'll ask anyway. Is there an ideal serving temperature for this beer? Currently pouring at 6oC and it tastes okay, but may improve at a different temp. Cheers Elz


----------



## philmud

I'd probably run it around there. What aren't you thrilled with if it has some off/odd flavours try dropping in down to 4c, if it's a bit muted let it warm slightly.


----------



## drsmurto

8-10C is my preferred serving temperature for most ales. Any colder and you mute flavours/aromas.


----------



## Elz

It tastes fine, maybe a little 'thin?'. I will try ramping it up a degree or two.
Thanks for your advice.
Cheers 
Elz


----------



## SixStar

Hi Gang,

I'm going to try and make this but am a bit confused on particularly the hop schedules...

55% Ale (normally TF FM MO or GP)
20% Vienna (german)
20% Rye
5% Carabohemian

Magnum @ 60 to 30 IBU

For my 23L batch this would be about 19 grams added at 60min. This takes me to 30ish IBU right there.
Victoria 1.5g/L @ 20 and 0

So here I add 34.5 grams of Victoria (23L batch = 1.5g x 23L) at 20min
And another 34.5 grams of Victoria at 0 minutes?
So that's 69 grams of Victoria hops for me in addition to the Magnum? Seems like a lot here? total IBU would be 60+
Thanks boys!


----------



## Mardoo

The zero minute addition will add SFA bitterness, just flavour and aroma, unless you let it soak for a long time.


----------



## Crusty

I'd stick with the original recipe mate. You can't go wrong & it's a fantastic beer. Just scale it if need be to your volume into your fermenter.


----------



## drsmurto

SixStar said:


> Hi Gang,
> 
> I'm going to try and make this but am a bit confused on particularly the hop schedules...
> 
> 55% Ale (normally TF FM MO or GP)
> 20% Vienna (german)
> 20% Rye
> 5% Carabohemian
> Magnum @ 60 to 30 IBU
> 
> For my 23L batch this would be about 19 grams added at 60min. This takes me to 30ish IBU right there.
> Victoria 1.5g/L @ 20 and 0
> 
> So here I add 34.5 grams of Victoria (23L batch = 1.5g x 23L) at 20min
> And another 34.5 grams of Victoria at 0 minutes?
> So that's 69 grams of Victoria hops for me in addition to the Magnum? Seems like a lot here? total IBU would be 60+
> Thanks boys!



When putting recipes in to your brewing program the best way (IMHO) to do the hop additions it to add them in reverse. Add your aroma and flavour hops and use the 60 min addition to adjust the total IBU to your desired level.

In this case, add the Victoria at the suggested rate at 20 mins and 0 mins noting that my recipes are developed with the idea that no chill adds 0 IBU (backed up by science) so if your software has a button that allows you to make adjustments, don't use it. Put the Magnum in at 60 mins and adjust how much Magnum to get the total IBU to 30. You won't need much Magnum, from memory i use about 5g with my homegrown Victoria set to 10% AA.


My flameout hops are added 5 minutes after flameout (to allow the turbulence in the boiling wort to settle) during the manual whirlpool (me, a mash paddle and some elbow grease). Walk away for 10 mins and then chill (or no chill) as per your normal method. You won't add any IBU regardless of your method. 

Unless you are adding several grams per litre of a high AA% hop, no chill does not increase IBU to a level in which you could taste it.


----------



## SixStar

Thanks Doc, this makes much more sense now. I have done as you suggested and my IBU's are now a total of about 30. Magnum had to be reduced to about 5 grams as you noted.

Excited!

Great tip here as you wrote:

_"My flameout hops are added 5 minutes after flameout (to allow the turbulence in the boiling wort to settle) during the manual whirlpool (me, a mash paddle and some elbow grease). Walk away for 10 mins and then chill (or no chill) as per your normal method. You won't add any IBU regardless of your method."_

Never tried this.


----------



## SixStar

Just pitched the wyeast! First time using this stuff


----------



## Benn

Brewed this today, my first AG brew. 
Cheers,


----------



## ken_gilchrist

Did this recipe for my first AG in my Grainfather Sunday 28th Feb. Put it into my fermenter and it has now only fermented down to 1020 after 9 days. Is this normal for this beer styles final gravity?

Just to provide a little more info my exact recipe was

5kg GP
.3 Caramunich 1
.2 Rye

25 gms Galaxy @ 15
25 gms Nelson Sauvon @ 10
15 gms Mosaic @ 5

S-33 re-hydrated

Fermented @ 18 deg

I'm going to give it another few days but I thought it would have been done by now, or at least close.

First taste: Bloody beautiful

Cheers


----------



## SixStar

1020 seems high I think? Mash issues maybe? Maybe bad yeast or rehydration process?


----------



## bevan

ken_gilchrist said:


> Did this recipe for my first AG in my Grainfather Sunday 28th Feb. Put it into my fermenter and it has now only fermented down to 1020 after 9 days. Is this normal for this beer styles final gravity


I used safale us05 and it got down to 1006 after 7 days


----------



## drsmurto

ken_gilchrist said:


> Did this recipe for my first AG in my Grainfather Sunday 28th Feb. Put it into my fermenter and it has now only fermented down to 1020 after 9 days. Is this normal for this beer styles final gravity?
> 
> Just to provide a little more info my exact recipe was
> 
> 5kg GP
> .3 Caramunich 1
> .2 Rye
> 
> 25 gms Galaxy @ 15
> 25 gms Nelson Sauvon @ 10
> 15 gms Mosaic @ 5
> 
> S-33 re-hydrated
> 
> Fermented @ 18 deg
> 
> I'm going to give it another few days but I thought it would have been done by now, or at least close.
> 
> First taste: Bloody beautiful
> 
> Cheers


Firstly, not sure how that recipe is related to my golden ale. Looks like a nice rye pale ale.

Secondly, 1.020 seems very high. Unless you mashed at 70+C. What was the OG? 

Perhaps try racking it to another fermenter, tipping the fermenter to take as much yeast across, which will introduce a little bit of oxygen and mix the yeast back up. This might help the yeast chew up a few more points, I'd hope that recipe finished close to 1.010, depending on the IBU.


----------



## Killer Brew

bevan said:


> I used safale us05 and it got down to 1006 after 7 days


How did you do that? Seriously, the only yeast I can get under 1010 are saisons


----------



## ken_gilchrist

DrSmurto said:


> Firstly, not sure how that recipe is related to my golden ale. Looks like a nice rye pale ale.
> 
> Secondly, 1.020 seems very high. Unless you mashed at 70+C. What was the OG?
> 
> Perhaps try racking it to another fermenter, tipping the fermenter to take as much yeast across, which will introduce a little bit of oxygen and mix the yeast back up. This might help the yeast chew up a few more points, I'd hope that recipe finished close to 1.010, depending on the IBU.


I dragged that recipe of here some were mate so not sure exactly if it was yours or not.

My mash profile was set to the same as the one on the "Mathos" controller set up video:

Mash in @ 40 deg

protien rest @ 50 deg for 10 min. OG 1020

Beta amylase @ 63 for 15 min. OG 1051

Alpha1 @ 66 for 40 min. OG 1067

Alpha2 @ 72 for 20 min. OG 1068

Mash out @ 80 deg for 20 min

Pre boil volume 28l OG 1050

Post boil 1050


----------



## SixStar

You're in the wrong thread mate. You should be posting this in general brewing techniques. Not sure how you ended up here.
Try there somewhere.


----------



## bevan

Killer Brew said:


> How did you do that? Seriously, the only yeast I can get under 1010 are saisons


Went back through my kit brew records and checked the FG and I got any where between 1014 and 1009. 1007 (first AG) seems to be the lowest so far. Have another one (second AG) in the fermenter now, will let you know how it goes.


----------



## ken_gilchrist

SixStar said:


> You're in the wrong thread mate. You should be posting this in general brewing techniques. Not sure how you ended up here.
> Try there somewhere.


Not sure how you figure that mate? I'm seeking advice on a recipe I got of this thread, maybe not 100% correct but pretty close.


----------



## drsmurto

ken_gilchrist said:


> I dragged that recipe of here some were mate so not sure exactly if it was yours or not.
> 
> My mash profile was set to the same as the one on the "Mathos" controller set up video:
> 
> Mash in @ 40 deg
> 
> protien rest @ 50 deg for 10 min. OG 1020
> 
> Beta amylase @ 63 for 15 min. OG 1051
> 
> Alpha1 @ 66 for 40 min. OG 1067
> 
> Alpha2 @ 72 for 20 min. OG 1068
> 
> Mash out @ 80 deg for 20 min
> 
> Pre boil volume 28l OG 1050
> 
> Post boil 1050


With that mash schedule I'd be expecting a dry beer, FG 1.010 so sounds like a yeast issue. Give the previous idea of racking a go but i suspect it's stuck at this SG.

As for the comment from someone else that 1.010 is a low FG that would be a no with a few caveats.

Pitching the correct quantity of healthy, viable yeast into a well oxygenated wort with an OG between 1.040 - 1.050 should result in an FG around 1.010. Depends on yeast, grist, mash temperature but 1.010 is not low. 

A lager yeast can finish lower, coopers bottle yeast often finishes lower. A few of the hungry english yeasts can finish lower (WY1469, WY1026 just to name a few).

When i see people regularly getting FGs of 1.014+ in a regular OG beer i immediately think poor yeast health, low pitch rate, low oxygen. Brewing beer is easy. It's the fermentation side that tests a brewers skill.


----------



## ken_gilchrist

DrSmurto said:


> With that mash schedule I'd be expecting a dry beer, FG 1.010 so sounds like a yeast issue. Give the previous idea of racking a go but i suspect it's stuck at this SG.
> 
> As for the comment from someone else that 1.010 is a low FG that would be a no with a few caveats.
> 
> Pitching the correct quantity of healthy, viable yeast into a well oxygenated wort with an OG between 1.040 - 1.050 should result in an FG around 1.010. Depends on yeast, grist, mash temperature but 1.010 is not low.
> 
> A lager yeast can finish lower, coopers bottle yeast often finishes lower. A few of the hungry english yeasts can finish lower (WY1469, WY1026 just to name a few).
> 
> When i see people regularly getting FGs of 1.014+ in a regular OG beer i immediately think poor yeast health, low pitch rate, low oxygen. Brewing beer is easy. It's the fermentation side that tests a brewers skill.


Cool thanks DrSmurto. I'll give the advice given a go and see how it goes.

Thanks again


----------



## SixStar

Made the latest recipe and it was the best beer I've made to date. Everyone loved it. I used the Victoria hops I grew.
I'm cooking up another one right now.


----------



## Engibeer

I don't have any caramunich, anyone substituted caramunich for crystal? 

Results?


----------



## Engibeer

I don't have any caramunich, anyone substituted caramunich for crystal? 

Results?


----------



## wereprawn

Which xtal malts do you have at hand to sub?


----------



## drsmurto

Any light/medium crystal will be fine. Carabohemian is my personal favourite.


----------



## Engibeer

Thanks Doc,

I had to mill my grains yesterday arvo to brew this morning, so I've postponed this batch.

I've got some B&B crystal and some Caramalt.

I've gotta order some more hops now, as I used all my Amarillo in a 10min IPA today.

I'll order some carabohemian with the hops and give it a crack.

Cheers,

Matt


----------



## Brett05

Hi all,I'm new to all grain brewing(forgive me),but for the good Doctors Golden Ale recipe,what is the ideal ferment temperature and time???Do you suggest just single primary or the use of secondary ferment as well???

Thanks in advance.

Brett05.


----------



## Brett05

Searched websites and found the recipes but no ferment details?
Just the last peice of the puzzle I need to convince the non-believers in homebrew!!!

Cheers!

Brett05.


----------



## BradG

The recipe I got from beer smith uses a US05, which means about 18c for however long it takes


----------



## bradsbrew

18 degrees. 14 day primary, 14 day secondary according to Smurto's recipe.
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/recipe/502-drsmurtos-golden-ale/


----------



## burrster

Brett05 said:


> Searched websites and found the recipes but no ferment details?
> Just the last peice of the puzzle I need to convince the non-believers in homebrew!!!
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Brett05.


Not sure if this helps you But I ferment my version of this at 17 degrees with Wyeast 1272 for 1 week, then dry hop for another week, this could crash for approx 1 week before bottling. All this is done in the primary and the 3 week time frame revolves around only having time to work on my brews on the weekends, you could reduce the length of time if you have time to bottle/keg during the week.


----------



## Brett05

Thanks for the reply, Brad!

It's the only detail about all-grain recipes I can't find???

Searched all of these recipes and evolution of the Drs Golden Ale,no ferment.

Thanks for helping the newbie


----------



## Brett05

Thanks,burrster!

Just have standard Coopers(old) fermenters and 19ltr Corny kegs for dispensing on keg sytem ATM.

Just starting my adventures in all grain after several years of ol' Coopers cans.

Was curious ferment temps for individual styles.

"Cheers to the beer gods!!!"


----------



## Brett05

Thank you for the replies and help to the newbie!

Doing the research before a disaster happens...

Cheers to all.

Brett05.


----------



## Mattrox

I brewed a Weyerman Grain, Amarillo hops and BRY 97 yeast version of this recipe. I put on a few homebrews for my son's 20th Birthday and the Golden Ale got rave reviews. I just put in a grain order to brew it again because everyone else drank all the great beer.

After this I will try the rye version.

Great recipe.


----------



## Coodgee

I prefer the shiraz grape version these days. Less tannins than the apple cider DSGA


----------



## Mattrox

Coodgee said:


> I prefer the shiraz grape version these days. Less tannins than the apple cider DSGA


Given the recipe has Weyerman then has a suggestion for JW malt, then another suggestion for Rye I don't think it is unreasonable to give the details of which variation was used.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/recipe/502-drsmurtos-golden-ale/


----------



## Coodgee

^^ Not having a go at you or anyone. I just think it's an interesting phenomenon, this DSGA. So many different versions. I like to be more creative with my naming conventions. New malt/yeast/hops = new beer, new name for me. But each to their own. It does seem the different combinations of yeast, malt and hops that fall under the banner of a version of DSGA is increasing exponentially with time!


----------



## drsmurto

Coodgee said:


> ^^ Not having a go at you or anyone. I just think it's an interesting phenomenon, this DSGA. So many different versions. I like to be more creative with my naming conventions. New malt/yeast/hops = new beer, new name for me. But each to their own. It does seem the different combinations of yeast, malt and hops that fall under the banner of a version of DSGA is increasing exponentially with time!


That's because each time i brewed a variation it retained the name. 

I brewed it. 

It was golden and an ale.

Don't overthink it.


----------



## Coldspace

I loved this receipe, done it lots, really like the rye version as well.

Cheers


----------



## fishingbrad

This is so popular at my place it has it's own tap. Rye version, except I've never gotten hold of carabohemian. sub carapils instead. Can anyone tell me what I'll missing out on in flavour. cheers.


----------



## BKBrews

Can someone please point me in the direction of the original recipe that everyone loves? I downloaded it on beersmith, but not sure what version it is, as there appears to be a million. The recipe I have is:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 28.00 l
Post Boil Volume: 26.00 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 l
Bottling Volume: 21.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.045 SG
Estimated Color: 13.2 EBC
Estimated IBU: 35.2 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 73.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 79.3 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
2.54 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 1 56.4 %
0.85 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) Grain 2 18.8 %
0.85 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 3 18.8 %
0.27 kg Caramunich I (Weyermann) (100.5 EBC) Grain 4 5.9 %
18.00 g Amarillo Gold [8.40 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 16.9 IBUs
23.00 g Amarillo Gold [8.40 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 6 14.4 IBUs
0.25 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 7 -
23.00 g Amarillo Gold [8.40 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 8 3.9 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 9 -
36.00 g Amarillo Gold [8.40 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Day Hop 10 0.0 IBUs


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 4.51 kg
----------------------------

I have 450g of Amarillo to use, so keen to brew this one for Christmas day. I'm thinking I might move the 20min addition to about 5 or 10min and bump it up a fair bit, then move 0min boil addition to whirlpool and bump that up too.


----------



## Coalminer

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/recipes/
its #1 in the Ales style


----------



## Fatgodzilla

DrSmurto said:


> That's because each time i brewed a variation it retained the name.
> 
> I brewed it.
> 
> It was golden and an ale.
> 
> Don't overthink it.


If you renamed every variation of every beer made, we would run out of names. The simple beauty is to look at the original and how it has taken upon itself a life of it's own. Look at the original (or any subsequent variation) and vary it to suit your tastes, your stock on hand, even your location.

This isn't the good Doctor's beer, its the people's beer. Give credit though to the man who published it, refined it, made a number of versions of it then answered a zillion questions (sensibly) to anyone who asked. Still a great beer for noobies (and experts) to make. And play with. And give your own fancy name too.

Well done DrSmurto :super:


----------



## Bonenose

Any wheat free versions of the good doctors golden ale?


----------



## mtb

Sub wheat for carapils, I guess


----------



## VP Brewing

Have done it with rye instead of wheat.


----------



## mtb

18.8% rye? Should be.. Interesting


----------



## Bonenose

Of course maybe thinking about this should post a question in ingredients to not drag this off topic. Would still love to hear ideas just for this recipe need to give it a crack. 

Cheers guys


----------



## yum beer

Coodgee said:


> ^^ Not having a go at you or anyone. I just think it's an interesting phenomenon, this DSGA. So many different versions. I like to be more creative with my naming conventions. New malt/yeast/hops = new beer, new name for me. But each to their own. It does seem the different combinations of yeast, malt and hops that fall under the banner of a version of DSGA is increasing exponentially with time!


I think the relation back to DSGA, refers to the brewer having gained inspiration from the original and as such it is still steeped in DSGA heritage,,,,just as yanks like to refer to hoppo pale ales as AIPA.


----------



## SixStar

I've made my fourth batch of this today - the good doctors latest version.
Only this time I did an additional hop stand with an additional 35g of Victoria that I grow - got from him I believe. I did the stand at 78c for 20 minutes. 
I've had so many compliments on this beer it's amazing. Kudos to you Dr. It's my house beer and I keg it. Ive re-used the Wyeast 3 times now.
Check out the flowers. Got 89% efficiency on this go around with the grainfather.
I also kinda like that I don't have to dry hop it and it always turns out amazing.


----------



## VP Brewing

mtb said:


> 18.8% rye? Should be.. Interesting


I think replacing the wheat with rye and caramunich with carabohemian is Smurto's preferred version of it. Or at least it was a few years ago when I was brewing DSGA quite a bit. Have done both recipes a fair few times.
I'm pretty sure it can be found somewhere in the previous 52 pages. I'm not in the mood to be searching tho.


----------



## Crusty

I made 50L of the original all Weyermann on the weekend.
After being all over the place with finishing volumes & gravities, I've finally dialed in my volumes thanks to a post by Midnight Brew but overshot my gravity by 6 points. Clearly my efficiency was set too low which has now been rectified. I'm looking down the barrel of a 5.1% ABV instead of the 4.7% I was aiming for. All good though, I'll just have to drink one less beer.


----------



## drsmurto

Bonenose said:


> Any wheat free versions of the good doctors golden ale?


Sub the wheat for rye, it's how i brew this beer these days.


----------



## clibit

Coalminer said:


> http://aussiehomebrewer.com/recipes/
> its #1 in the Ales style


Seems to have disappeared along with lots of other recipes?

Edit. Sorry, being a wazzock (northern England term). I had it set to kit n kilo recipes only.


----------



## bbqzookeeper

I am going to brew this myself this weekend, but first had to read it all. I feel so sorry for @drsmurto when he continually and patiently answered the same questions for ~10 years or so. Thank you for your contribution! 
Sorry if this is also reviving an old thread, but maybe this could help?

*Original Post:*

2.4 kg Weyermann Pilsner
0.8 kg Weyermann Pale Wheat
0.8 kg Weyermann Munich I
0.25 kg Weyermann Caramunich I

Mash in 66*C (60mins), mash out 78 (10mins). Boil for 90mins, first hop @ 60mins. Ferment at 18C.

20 g Amarillo (Pellet, 8.9AA%, 60mins)
15 g Amarillo (Pellet, 8.9AA%, 10mins)
15 g Amarillo (Pellet, 8.9AA%, 5mins)
15 g Amarillo (Pellet, 8.9AA%, 0mins)

US-05 Yeast or WY1272 - American Ale II (personal favourite of drsmurto)

Dr. Smurto’s own compilation of thoughts:

· *Article written by drsmurto compiling his thoughts on DSGA. Post #921* http://homebrewandbeer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11013

PDF’s of Dr. Smurto’s recipes:

· *PDF Recipe files uploaded by drsmurto on Post #668. *Preference given to no dry-hopping as it gives a better balance.

Featured/Curated Comments, concerning AG brewing (since I don't have any experience with kits/extracts...):

1. 12/10/08 – Used JW Traditional and JW Caramalt instead of Pils and Caramunich. Scored 46/50 at SABSOSA. 

2. 26/10/08 – “FYI - I recently made it [with No Chill Cube method] and found the bitterness to be a bit overpowering.” – glennheinzel

3. 26/10/08 – “I quite regularly ferment at 20-22C to try and force the yeast into ester production, more so when using a good english ale yeast but also with US05.” – drsmurto

4. 01/12/08 – “Because it's well balanced and the recipe is so simple, it's a good one to tinker with. For example, for my tastes I would use an ale malt instead of pils.” – RobB

5. 24/12/08 – “And since this beer has ~20% wheat it takes longer to clear in my experience.” – drsmurto

6. 11/03/09 – “i must say 1469 is in fact an excellent yeast to use with this one. it's quite a different beer to the 1056/us-05 variety” - ~MikE

7. 20/07/09 – “As others have noted, the aroma will dissipate with time. I like it both ways  :lol: Fresh its an APA (albeit at the very low end of the scale in ABV and IBU) with plenty of hop aroma. Older its more like an english pale ale with the malt starting to take centre stage.” – drsmurto

8. 18/08/09 – “Question: Does this really need 14 days in the primary?” – Phoney

9. 18/08/09 – “Leaving beer for a bit longer, even when FG is reached, allows the yeast to clean up after itself so unwanted flavours can dissipate. Your best option is to buy another fermenter. My beers have improved tenfold since I became less concerned with getting them in the bottle just becasue I could.” – manticle

10. 09/10/09 – “Cascade blends beautifully with amarillo. As FGZ said if you only have 25g [of Amarillo] leave it for late additions.” – drsmurto

11. 11/12/09 – “Brewing my 1st major modification of this recipe on Sunday. Swapping out the wheat for rye. Thommo is currently fermenting a rye version so thought i'd do the same. Might also use munich II. The next variation after that is to try carawheat in place of the caramunich and maybe use dark wheat.” – drsmurto

12. 01/02/10 – “Keep the total IBU to 30 so adjust the 60 min addition accordingly. Whenever i design a recipe the 60 min hop addition is the last and is used to hit the target IBU. I prefer this schedule as the amarillo is boiled for longer for some flavour and the flameout addition is for aroma. Note that i chill so this will need changing if you plan on no chilling. I believe the no chillers don't add the 0 min addition and add it post ferment?” – drsmurto

13. 17/03/10 – “I've used the TF Maris Otter [instead of pils] in this. All good.” – drsmurto

14. 29/07/10 – “Priming wise i prime low(er) than commercial drinkers like. JSGA itself is primed lower than most commercial Australian beers. But, you can prime this as normal. The beer that got the gong a few years ago had been bottle conditioned for 2-3 months from memory and was carbed at a rate aiming for 2.0 volumes which is in the same ballpark as you would find in commercial bottled english ales. Its not overly spritzy but its not flat either. A happy medium IMO.” – drsmurto

15. 25/08/10 – “Do it! I use this grain bill to play around with other hops, last non amarillo batch was galaxy but have done cascade/chinook/centennial and combos of them.” – drsmurto

16. 25/08/10 – “Hop schedule for a 20L batch was 5.00 gm Galaxy [15.00 %] (60 min) Hops 9.7 IBU 20.00 gm Galaxy [15.00 %] (20 min) Hops 23.6 IBU 30.00 gm Galaxy [15.00 %] (0 min) Hops” – drsmurto

17. 13/01/11 – “[Water Profile] Apologies if this has been discussed earlier in this thread, but I'm not keen to scan 13 pages of this thread to see if this has been discussed previously” – Warra48

18. 15/01/11 – “My additions to rainwater (assuming <0.1 ppm for all brewing salts as a base) are 10.0g CaSO4 and 3.0g CaCl2 per 35L of base water resulting in Ca 90, SO4 160, Cl 41 ppm pre-boil.” – drsmurto

19. 23/03/11 – “[In response to beer aged for 2 months] Glad to hear your patience was rewarded, i think this beer does get better with age, to a point. :icon_cheers:” – drsmurto

20. 14/04/11 – “I've brewed the golden ale with US-05, WY1056, WY1272, Pacman (cant be arsed finding the WY#), WY1187, WY1469 and WY1026. US05/WY1056 is probably the simplest for new brewers, a great balance of malt and hops. Pacman and WY1272 for those looking for something a bit more interesting.” – drsmurto

21. 21/06/11 – “This recipe has more hop flavour than JSGA. That said, if this is all new to you i would skip the dry hopping and see what you think. Nottinghman is not the same as US05. US05 highlights the hops, Nottingham mutes them. This may work in your favour as it will produce a milder hop flavour.” – drsmurto

22. 26/07/11 – “Sometimes you forget why you liked a recipe in the first place. I have bastardised this so much that the beers i brew that i call golden ales have very little resemblance to the original. Now i am drinking the original i can safely say I still love amarillo :drinks:” – drsmurto

23. 26/07/11 – “Another really nice Smurto brew is his Alt.” – raven19

24. 25/08/11 – “[Using lager yeast] I would expect given lagers take longer to ferment and condition that the amarillo flavour and aroma will be greatly reduced. I personally wouldn't.” – drsmurto

25. 16/11/11 – “I use this grist % in a lot of beers as well as the general hop schedule (great for homegrown chinook, cascade and victoria!). Still call them golden ales even if the only thing it has in common is the water. ” – drsmurto

26. *PDF Recipe files uploaded by drsmurto on Post #668. *Preference given to no dry-hopping as it gives a better balance.

27. 14/12/11 – “I generally wait 15-20 minutes after flameout to chill to allow the aroma hops to steep.” – drsmurto

28. 12/01/12 – “Rather than dry hop you could steep some hops in boiled water and strain the liquid into the keg as you rack into it.” – drsmurto 

29. 29/02/12 – “Wyeast 1272 (american ale II) or WhiteLabs 051 (California V) are my preferred yeasts.” – drsmurto 

30. 19/03/12 – “I very rarely brew a golden ale with wheat anymore. 20% rye in this beer with a range of hops works a treat, cascade and galaxy are very nice together but my personal favourite is Victoria.” – drsmurto

31. 04/04/12 – “I tend to try and get some of the yeast over into the secondary as yeast plays a very important role in the development of flavours in the beer. Not much but enough that there is a good layer of yeast at the bottom of the secondary container by the end of the conditioning phase.” – drsmurto

32. 02/05/12 – “My favourite version/house ale is 55% Thomas Fawcetts MO 20% Wey rye 20% Wey vienna 5% Wey Carabohemian Magnum @ 60 Victoria 2g/L @ 20 Victoria 2g/l @ 0 WY1272 I brew the wheat/amarillo/US05 version for mates. The 55/20/20/5 grist is one i use for a lot of beers.” – drsmurto

33. 03/05/12 – “I've never done multiple mash steps in this beer. If i did it would probably be 64-65 for 60 and 70 for 20. Given you missed the desired mash temp by 2C I would repeat with a 66C mash before playing about with multiple rests. This finishes at 1.012 for me with a 66C mash. I have had it finish at 1.010 but that was a re-pitch of a lot of yeast.” – drsmurto

34. 02/08/12 – “[In regards to secondary] It depends on what you are after. I don't dry hop this and haven't for a very long time as i don't find it necessary. The flameout addition gives me all the aroma i want. If you want more aroma, dry hop. Dry hopping can be done in the primary fermenter, just wait until fermentation is done. Racking is optional, you can simply leave it in the primary fermenter for another week after fermetnation has finished. 2 weeks total would be the minimum, 3 better. I give my ales 2 weeks primary, rack and then 1-2+ weeks cold conditioning. Racking is one of the many aspects of brewing that divides brewers.” – drsmurto

35. 03/08/12 – “When brewing for me i prefer the rye/vienna version instead of wheat/munich and use whatever hop i have, more often that not that would be homegrown victoria or chinook.” – drsmurto

36. 15/08/12 – “[Cascade/Amarillo Hop Combo] 50/50 for flavour and aroma works a treat. If using these for bittering I'd use amarillo over cascade, i find cascade too harsh as a bittering hop.” – drsmurto

37. 25/08/12 – “I have just finished reading all 41 pages, wow that took a while!” – Aydos

38. 07/12/12 – “Patience/time is the cure for many brewing 'issues' but is the hardest part of brewing.” – drsmurto

39. 06/01/13 – “It's been debated before if you go back to the first few pages of this discussion. It won the english bitter section at ANAWBS in 2008 (and beer of show). It is not an APA, not enough hops and too much malt. For some time there was a loophole in the entry for ANAWBS for english best bitter that allowed american hops, i think that has been closed down now.

Think of this beer as more english in style, a nice balance between the malt and hops, easy drinking, but in reality it is stuck in no mans land in between english bitter and APA and if you enter it into a BJCP comp there is no category it will do well in. I don't label it and you are not required to adhere to BJCP guidelines unless entering your beer in a comp.” – drsmurto

40. 12/07/14 – “[Hop Additions w/ No Chill] Kingy, just did one of these (small batch, BIAB no chill) and did a 60, 10, 0 minute hop schedule, 1/3 at each time, aiming for 34-35 IBU (using Brewmate with the no-chill box checked). Was a rye version, with a small amount of carabohemian instead of caramunich.” – pajs

41. *Article written by drsmurto compiling his thoughts on DSGA. Post #921* http://homebrewandbeer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11013

42. 05/11/15 – “Wy1272 is my go to yeast but for something slightly different i sometimes use wy1187 Ringwood and even wy1469 West Yorkshire.” – drsmurto

43. 26/02/16 – “My flameout hops are added 5 minutes after flameout (to allow the turbulence in the boiling wort to settle) during the manual whirlpool (me, a mash paddle and some elbow grease). Walk away for 10 mins and then chill (or no chill) as per your normal method. You won't add any IBU regardless of your method. 

Unless you are adding several grams per litre of a high AA% hop, no chill does not increase IBU to a level in which you could taste it.” – drsmurto

44. 21/07/16 – “[No Caramunich I in stock] Any light/medium crystal will be fine. Carabohemian is my personal favourite.” – drsmurto

45. 13/10/16 – “[Concerning naming conventions] That's because each time i brewed a variation it retained the name. I brewed it. It was golden and an ale. Don't overthink it.” – drsmurto


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## drsmurto

Currently on tap, a rye golden ale with homegrown Victoria hops. Went a bit lighter on the late additions, 1g/L at 20 and 0. Very tasty. 

Conserving the Victoria after the bines got smashed in a storm a few weeks ago so looking like a very small crop this season.


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## Asdam

Well there have been a lot of variations circulating over the net recently so I was wondering what would be latest version of this ?  
I'm looking at the ones in the pdf in post 668


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