# So my tapwater pH is 4.8



## mr_wibble (24/9/16)

We are getting green (presumably) copper oxide deposits in the shower. So Mrs Wibble ordered a pH meter. The "Oakton"/"Eutech" eco tester pH2 says our tank water is somewhere around 4.6 to 5.0 over 5 or so readings.

Mrs Wibble wants to put buckets of limestone gravel in the tank to balance it out a bit. However I'm concerned that this will make my water too hard for good brewing. Anyone have thoughts on this?

Would such acidic water effect my brews in a negative way anyway?

Thanks,
-kt


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## MHB (24/9/16)

Normal rain water has a pH of 5-5.5, slightly acidic just from dissolved CO2.
A pH of 4.6 is on the low (acidic) side and brings to mind two questions
First - did you calibrate the pH meter with calibration solutions? if not you need to or you can take the readings as an educated guess.
Second would be why the pH is so acidic. The usual causes are industrial pollution, if you had a coal burning power station near by, some SO2 in the flue gas can react with water to form sulphuric acid.

If the pH really is much lower than 5, I would want to know why and suspect I would be talking to the EPA, I would also be worried about drinking the water, if it's dissolving your copper pipes I suspect there would be many issues more important than the effect on brewing water, like on your health.
Mark


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## manticle (24/9/16)

Yeah I'd check accuracy and copper levels in drinking/cooking water.

Brewing water needs to be potable. So does your source of consumable water (tank, municipal, etc)..


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## pcmfisher (24/9/16)

That's pretty low.

Don't know that I would be drinking it.

Just about poke 2 metal sticks in there and run some lights.


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## mr_wibble (24/9/16)

Yes the meter was calibrated with the correct buffers.
Lake Macquarie has 2x power stations.

Guess we're fscked then.


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## wide eyed and legless (24/9/16)

http://www.flairform.com/products/ph-control/ph-up

Easy to adjust the pH but I would certainly be getting the water checked.


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## Coalminer (24/9/16)

Dr google says that the PH of beer is around 4.0 > 4.5
Why is it OK to drink beer but not safe to drink water at 4.6 > 5.0


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## manticle (24/9/16)

It's not the pH itself so much but what might be causing that pH.


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## wobbly (24/9/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> http://www.flairform.com/products/ph-control/ph-up
> 
> Easy to adjust the pH but I would certainly be getting the water checked.


Would/could you use this to adjust pH up/raise in a dark beer

I see in Wikipedia that it is/can be used as a buffering agent in wine and mead 

Wobbly


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## wide eyed and legless (24/9/16)

wobbly said:


> Would/could you use this to adjust pH up/raise in a dark beer
> 
> I see in Wikipedia that it is/can be used as a buffering agent in wine and mead
> 
> Wobbly


I was concerned about using it wobbly but, I also read it is safe to use, sure it was on a beer forum, I have also read that they use it for wine.


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## mr_wibble (24/9/16)

So we bought a bag of 20mm marble chips from the garden centre.

In a bucket of tap water and (now washed) limestone/marble (which is predominantly calcium carbonate) the pH rose up to 9 over 2 hours at room temp (~22C).

Meanwhile I've been making a limestone randall. It's 150mm pipe by 2000mm. Obviously it's all experimental, but I hope when it's filled with bigger bits of marble, just flowing the water over/through the limestone is enough to correct the pH. I will plumb it in downstream of the water pump. Hopefully it will not reduce the pressure to much. I figure that adjusting the size & amount of the gravel will allow me to "tune" the pH. But it will probably be a bit higher for the first tap-water runnings in the morning. Maybe it will result in too much pH increase but we'll see.


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## manticle (24/9/16)

As far as brewing goes, mash pH is far more important than water pH. Water will have some effect obviously but is not the be all and end all.

As mentioned -what causes the pH is what is important. Just raising it doesn't deal with that.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (24/9/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I was concerned about using it wobbly but, I also read it is safe to use, sure it was on a beer forum, I have also read that they use it for wine.


Yes it's commonly used in wines to soften them before bottling.

It's also used in beer to adjust pH at filtration, especially if sucrose has been used.


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## altone (24/9/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I was concerned about using it wobbly but, I also read it is safe to use, sure it was on a beer forum, I have also read that they use it for wine.


Hmm it's my understanding that the Flairform ph up (potassium carbonate) and ph down (Citric Acid) are NOT food grade - at least they weren't some time ago.

While that may not cause any issues I'd stay safe and buy food grade equivalents - they may cost more and you'll have to work out your own dose rate

but you can sleep safe at night knowing only the consumption of excess alcohol is doing you harm 

Maybe check the current data sheets to see if they are food grade now. Technical, commercial or Lab grade is not good enough. 

edit: By not good enough I mean contains undisclosed impurities.


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## dicko (25/9/16)

The topic title says that it is his Tapwater that is PH 4.8

By tapwater I assume it is municipal water.
Municipal water would normally be filtered and chlorine or similar added prior to supply.

Wouldnt it be adviseable to get a water report and although it may be only a guide it may give you indication as to what you may expect the ph to be.

Because brewing uses relatively small amounts of water, the container that the water is collected in can affect the ph, particularly if it has been washed with a product like Starsan and not rinsed.

Try taking a ph reading from a sample that has come directly from the tap and compare that to your current result.


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## manticle (25/9/16)

I initially presumed that too dicko but reading further, it appears that it is tank water (hooked up to taps).


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## MHB (25/9/16)

You should have read the OP dicko
M


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## dicko (25/9/16)

My most humble and sincere apology for only taking notice of the title. 

OP...please ignore everything that I said, particularly about the part that residue in the container used for collection can and will affect ph.


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## mr_wibble (30/9/16)

If anyone is interested, here's the water test.
Looks like the copper is only being dissolved in the shower by the hot water (phew!)

How does this look for brewing?


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## manticle (30/9/16)

Do you add any of your own salts? Looks pretty soft which is good but adding calcium salts to your mash will be a good idea.


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## Mozz (30/9/16)

The way I read it is the only ion you have in the water that is above the lowest measureable limit (I presume that's LOR) is zinc. I'm assuming that's coming from galvanised tanks?
It's very pure so will have no buffering capacity and the pH will drop with things like microbial activity on organic matter in the tank (a bit of leaf or blown in on dust)
As last line says = corrosion (hence the zinc coming off).
Someone more knowledgeable will suggest an appropriate way to buffer the water to protect the tanks and copper pipes and keep it prime for brewing.


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## Mozz (30/9/16)

Just Googling a way to buffer and it seems like as little as 1-2 g of sodium bicarbonate per 1000 L from the baking section at the supermarket with raise the pH a couple of units which can be added every few months and after heavy rain . 
Water will still have almost no salts for brewing which means you can add what you want to make any profile you need. Sweet..


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## gone brewing (30/9/16)

The analysis shows total dissolved solids as 29ppm. The ions that are tested don't show anything at anywhere near that level so I presume that there are ions which weren't tested for that would add up somewhere around 29ppm. So I guess if you want a complete answer then you need to test for other ions.

However, if it was me I'd probably just test the mash pH and see if it's where I wanted it to be. At the end of the day that's what you want to get right.

And personally I wouldn't be too concerned about drinking tank water with a pH of 4.8. How old is the tank? Any chance of there being small amounts of organic matter (leaves etc) that sit on the bottom of the tank and decompose, leading to slightly acidic water? It sounds a bit gross but it's not that big a deal.


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## mr_wibble (5/10/16)

I think those "other" ions are colourbond ions from the roof that's probably dissolving as it collects the rain.

The water tank is one of those huge galvanised steel jobbies, but it has a rubber liner, so the steel bit is just there to hold the rubber in shape.

There probably is the odd bit of leaf material that makes it through the input filter.

cheers,
-kt


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