# Style Of The Week 8/11/06 - American Wheat Or Rye



## Stuster (8/11/06)

I did say that this week we'd look at Kolsch but I thought there'd probably been enough on that style already after the discussion on the mash paddle thread. So I thought we could look at another category 6 beer, American wheat or rye beer. A great summer easy-drinker IMO, BJCP style 6D.

So what is your take on this one. What grains? Yeast? Do you like to stick to these guidelines or hop it up a bit more? (That one's for you Jye. :lol: ) Are there any commercial examples you can recommend? (Redback??) Any recommendations for kits 'n' bits brewers for this accessible style? :chug: 

Tell us all you know so we can all brew better beer. :super: 



> 6D. American Wheat or Rye Beer
> 
> Aroma: Low to moderate grainy wheat or rye character. Some malty sweetness is acceptable. Esters can be moderate to none, although should reflect American yeast strains. The clovey and banana aromas common to German hefeweizens are inappropriate. Hop aroma may be low to moderate, and can have either a citrusy American or a spicy or floral noble hop character. Slight sourness is optional. No diacetyl.
> 
> ...


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## Kai (8/11/06)

I've brewed both an american wheat and a rye once each. The rye did not turn out particularly stellar, too full-bodied and a slightly high bitterness clashing with a sourness that may have come from a faint infection. The american wheat was a lovely beer however, brewed at roughly this time last year with the intention of drinking at christmas, which it was.



> Sam Wheat
> 
> OG 1.043
> FG 1.010
> ...



Drank it quite young, it was very light and appealling with faint hints of nectarine and citrus.


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## Stuster (8/11/06)

Sounds nice, Kai. I bet Glacier would work really well with this style.

Here's my recipe which did well in the state comp.

American rye

OG 1052
FG 1010
IBUs 27
Batch size 25L

2.7kg JW Export Pilsner
1.7kg Powells Wheat
1kg Weyermann Rye
100g JW Crystal wheat

Green Bullet [email protected]
Tettnanger [email protected], [email protected]

WLP320 American wheat
Simple infusion at 64C for 60
Fermented at 20C

Not much rye flavour there, but more body than with just wheat. My Xmas case contribution has basically the same but more rye and more hops. Yet to taste it though. :unsure: 

I think this is a good style for luring the unwary into the dangerous waters of homebrew and brewing. :lol:


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## Jye (8/11/06)

American wheat is a great summer beer and everyone I have brew for parties or meetings has been loved :chug: 

The first recipe I brewed came from The Brewing Network and is in the recipe section, from there I havent made to many changes expect try different hops.

If you keep the malt bill simple with 50/50 wheat/ale malt and maybe some crystal you cant go wrong. Choose your favourite C hop and keep the bitterness to about 20 IBUs, 20-30g at 10min and the rest of the bitterness at 60min. Ferment cool with any American yeast us-56, 001, 1056, my most recent which is for the xmas swap has been split between us-56 and Nottingham so it will be interesting to see if there is any difference. This brew was only hopped at 20 and 5 minutes with simcoe and initial samples for the primary suggest this might have been too much, but once kegged I hope to get more wheat.

Also check out this thread.

I have only brewed one rye beer and it was great, totally unique flavours like wheat and a few more will be brewed this summer.


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## bindi (8/11/06)

Edit: Deleted my posts   sorry guys, I won't post when " socially confused", well not this week  .


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## colinw (8/11/06)

Not sure if you'd call it an American wheat or rye, but I am planning a Rye Wheat of no specific style this weekend.

Tentative recipe:

*'Stuck Sparge Special'*
45 litres @ 1.045 SG

2.7kg Pilsner Malt (30%)
4.5kg Wheat Malt (50%)
1.35kg Rye Malt (15%)
450g Flaked Maize (5%)
+ a half a crapload of rice hulls

Why flaked maize? Why not? I love the effect it has on beer - lovely head & lace, crispness and sometimes a subtle sweetness.

Infusion Mash, 60 minutes at 66 degrees C.
48 litres pre-boil volume

90 minute boil:
70g Hallertauer Hallertau pellets (4%AA) @ 60 minutes
10g Hallertauer Hallertau pellets (4%AA) @ 10 minutes

1 whirlfloc tablet

Split into two fermenters
- half fermented with Safale K-97 (warmish ferment, 22C, gives muted weizen characteristics a bit like Erdinger)
- half fermented with Safale US-56. (cool ferment, < 18C, neutral)

OG = 1.045
Colour = 3 SRM (really pale!)
Bitterness = 18 IBUs
FG in the 1008-1010 range for 4.5-4.8% ABV

I expect the K-97 half to be somewhat German in character, the US-56 to be more like an American hefe/rye beer.

Adrian and I are brewing two batches this weekend. The other batch is a refinement of my Squires Golden clone which needs no introduction & explanation. 

cheers,
Colin


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## Voosher (8/11/06)

Never done one, but suddenly interested, especially now that someone's dragged me further out of my comfort zone all the way to Cologne :excl: 

I just noticed the temperature range on the Wyeast 1010 (and I presume its Whitelabs equivalent)... *14-23C* :excl: 

That's champion stuff - right up there with your Scottish 1728.

Has anyone run it significantly through it's range and can give a first hand account of the difference between the top and bottom end? 
And the middle for that matter?


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## Weizguy (8/11/06)

Here's the one I brewed for fun and entered in the NSW:
It was too flat and came in 5 points below Stuster's American rye ale (3 judges combined score).

Ingredients 
3.16 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 62.8 % 
1.77 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 35.1 % 
0.11 kg Carafoam (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 2.1 % 
28.00 gm Cascade [5.50%] (60 min) Hops 16.4 IBU 
20.00 gm Cascade [5.50%] (20 min) Hops 7.1 IBU 
14.00 gm Amarillo pellets [8.50%] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops - 
1 Pkgs Safale US-56 (Fermentis #Safale US-56) Yeast-Ale 

90 minute boil.
OG - 1.048 FG - 1.003 (after 4 weeks in fermentor)
23.4 IBU

Very tasty and like a mild-hopped wheaty APA.

Seth out


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## cubbie (6/11/09)

Hey Brewers,

I will be doing and American wheat this weekend. A seppo who we have over playing for my baseball club has got into brewing with me and looked a recipe for his favourite America Heff from a Brewery near his home in Portland.

Anyway he gave me this recipe which I will need to adjust.

I would love some help working out the substitutes for the grain bill and making a bit more sense of the mash schedule.
Also I will be using Proculture P60 - American Wheat and instead of American Tettnanger I have German Tettnanger - are they much different


He has converted it to 24L for me.

Cheers Cubbie

Recipe (117 litres)
11.3 kg American Wheat Malt
11.3 kg American two-row barley malt
1.4 kg Munich malt
540 g 40L carmel malt
312 g American Tettnanger hops
85 g American Cascade hops

Yeasts: WLP320

Mash: 49*c for 60 minutes
Conversion: 70*c
Boil wort for 1h30m or more

Original Gravity: 11 Plato (SG: 1.044)
Terminal SG 2.1 Plato (1.008)
Color 7 SRM

24 Litre:

2.4 kg American Wheat Malt
2.4 kg American two-row barley
290 g Munich Malt
24 g 40L carmel Malt
64 g American Tettnanger hops
17.6 g American Cascade hops


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## Stuster (6/11/09)

2.4 kg Wheat Malt
2.4 kg BB Pale malt/ JW Pilsner
290 g Munich Malt
24 g Caramunich I
64 g GermanTettnanger hops (how much you use really depends on what IBU level you are shooting for and what AA% the hops you have are)
18 g American Cascade hops

Looks nice to me.


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## Maple (6/11/09)

cubbie said:


> Hey Brewers,
> 
> I will be doing and American wheat this weekend. A seppo who we have over playing for my baseball club has got into brewing with me and looked a recipe for his favourite America Heff from a Brewery near his home in Portland.
> 
> ...



I'm confused - your mashing at 49 deg? that seems like the high end of an Acid rest or even into an extended protein rest temp to me, where for that long, you could end up really f-ing up your beer, given you are using malted wheat... perhaps read chapter 14 of how to brew, or many other resourses on this very topic. As for the Proculture 60 - that's a yeast, no? how is that replacing a hop addition?


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## reviled (6/11/09)

Hmmmm, American Wheat may have to be on the cards... Interesting concept, APA Wheat :icon_cheers:


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## jonocarroll (6/11/09)

Maple said:


> I'm confused - your mashing at 49 deg? that seems like the high end of an Acid rest or even into an extended protein rest temp to me, where for that long, you could end up really f-ing up your beer, given you are using malted wheat... perhaps read chapter 14 of how to brew, or many other resourses on this very topic. As for the Proculture 60 - that's a yeast, no? how is that replacing a hop addition?


Perhaps you should re-read some of the big block of text you quoted... maybe a line break will make it more obvious, that cubbie did indeed say the right thing;



cubbie said:


> Also I will be using Proculture P60 - American Wheat
> 
> and instead of American Tettnanger I have German Tettnanger - are they much different


 those are two different points.



cubbie said:


> Mash: 49*c for 60 minutes
> Conversion: 70*c


That looks like he missed the word rest, which would imply resting for 60 minutes, then however long for saccharification. Perhaps just waiting until the iodine test says conversion is good.

Hmm... I've been meaning to do a rye beer... perhaps one of these will make it to my to-brew list.


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## cubbie (6/11/09)

QuantumBrewer said:


> those are two different points.
> 
> 
> That looks like he missed the word rest, which would imply resting for 60 minutes, then however long for saccharification. Perhaps just waiting until the iodine test says conversion is good.



I just did a google for the recipe that he gave me and found this 

Mash in at 120 degrees F (49C), hold 60 minutes. Raise to 158F (70C) for conversion. Boil wort about 1:30 plus; whirlpool. Ferment with a good ale yeast. Do not filter.
Original gravity: 11 plato 

So yeah spot on QB. If I have a rest at 49c for 60min would a typical conversion at 70c still require about 60min?

Can't find anything on the IBU so I will just bitter somewhere within the style guidelines using German Tettnanger as opposed to American Tettnanger. Would assume the Tettnanger is for bittering at around 60min and the cascade for aroma/flavour at around 15min


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## Stuster (6/11/09)

Anywhere from 15 to the end really, cubbie, it's up to you.

Personally, I'd just mash at 65C or so for 60 minutes.


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## jonocarroll (6/11/09)

cubbie said:


> I just did a google for the recipe that he gave me and found this
> 
> Mash in at 120 degrees F (49C), hold 60 minutes. Raise to 158F (70C) for conversion. Boil wort about 1:30 plus; whirlpool. Ferment with a good ale yeast. Do not filter.
> Original gravity: 11 plato
> ...


There's a bit of debate about exactly how long conversion takes. If you're doing a starch test, you wait until that shows that you don't have starches anymore, though that doesn't say you get good conversion, just that the starches aren't starches, exactly.

60 mins @ 70*C should be adequate IMO.



cubbie said:


> Can't find anything on the IBU so I will just bitter somewhere within the style guidelines using German Tettnanger as opposed to American Tettnanger.


I don't know the American variety myself, but I'd be surprised if it gave a lot of difference as a 60 minute addition. I find that flavour/aroma additions are more sensitive to variety.



cubbie said:


> Would assume the Tettnanger is for bittering at around 60min and the cascade for aroma/flavour at around 15min


Cascade as a 15 minute (or less) addition gives a nice fruity/grassy taste, so if that's what you're after, then yes.


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## jonocarroll (6/11/09)

Stuster said:


> Personally, I'd just mash at 65C or so for 60 minutes.


My understanding is that a protein rest is a really good idea for large proportions of wheat and rye, i.e. more than 25%. The protein rest allows beta-glucans to be broken down - if you skip this step you end up with a loaf of bread-dough in the mash tun. The danger is that you can also activate the enzyme that will break down proteins, giving you no body or head. The recommendation seems to be that a rest of 20 mins at about 40*C (104*F) will be good enough to break the beta-glucans, but not enough to destroy the proteins.

HTH.

Oh, and don't use a protein rest for a grist of only fully modified malts - with no beta-glucans around, the proteins just get destroyed.


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## Stuster (6/11/09)

But, QB, wheat malt is fully modified malt. :icon_cheers: 

I've certainly done single infusions on 50+% wheat malt with no issues at all.


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## jonocarroll (6/11/09)

"wikipedia" said:


> The use of rye in brewing is considered difficult as rye lacks a hull (like wheat) and contains large quantities of beta-glucans compared to other grains; these long-chain sugars can leach out during a mash, creating a sticky gelatinous gum in the mash tun, and as a result brewing with rye requires a long, thorough beta-glucanase rest.


So, it's likely a good idea, though not crucial. Depending on the mash thickness, it may not be a problem. A solid mash is certainly something to be avoided though.


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## cubbie (6/11/09)

Thanks for the replies guys.

I will have to chat to the seppo more about this beer to get an idea on the use of the hops. I mash at 3L/kg with a preference for single infusion so I may just go down this path. I believe this recipe is from 94 or 96 About Beer Magazine issue, perhaps malts were less modified then and hence the long protein rest.


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## cubbie (7/11/09)

Just organising my mash schedule for this brew and am planning to do a protien rest. Just wondering as the recipe suggest a 60min rest is required? Could I not do a 20min rest. Secondly is there any relationship between the rest time and the converstion temp? Ie if I adjust my rest from 60 to 20 min do I need to adjust my conversion temp?

Cheers


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## RobB (17/6/10)

Here's mine. It's a bit unconventional but it was well liked by all who tried it.

50% Maris Otter
40% Wheat malt
9% Rolled (unmalted) wheat
1% Acidulated malt

Single infusion at 65 degrees

Single addition of Rakau at 60 min for 23 IBU

OG 1.047 and FG 1.008 courtesy of US-05.

The flavour and aroma was lovely and doughy, but what really surprised me was the hop flavour and aroma even with a single 60 minute addition. The Rakau was 11.5% AA as well, so I didn't need a lot to achieve 23 IBU. With a lowish FG and no specialty malts to hide behind, the hops still shone through, albeit subtly.

The slightly floral and fruity flavours from the Rakau combined with the doughiness brought back memories of stealing samples of biscuit batter from Mum's mixing bowl.

Has anyone tried one with a lager yeast? I'm thinking of having another crack with S-189.


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## moonshine (18/6/10)

@cubbie
found this the other day while researching hops


> Hops described as "Tettnanger" are also grown in the United States, Switzerland, and Australia, but these American Tettnanger, Swiss Tettnanger, and Australian Tettnanger hops are generally not be the true Tettnanger cultivar, but are thought to be Fuggle or a descendant of Fuggle.



from <a href="http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Tettnang_Tettnanger">http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Tettnang_Tettnanger</a> 

but at 60 min wouldn't think it would make huge amounts of difference...

Remembered I had some rolled triticale in the cupboard so might have to make an American triticale ale
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triticale... now what hops? Brew day tomorrow, will let you all know then.


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## moonshine (18/6/10)

ok so just bout to pitch 
3kg powells ale
2kg JW wheat
800g rolled triticale

still thinking bout hops?
i'm leaning towards 20g chinook 60min 20g amarillo 30min then a cascade plug for dry hopping... but also thinking bout trying the Rakau i just got? (never used Rakau before)

EDIT: was Rakau not Riwaka in the fridge


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## moonshine (18/6/10)

here's the end result (maybe a bit hoppy for the style)


> American Triticale - American Wheat or Rye Beer
> ================================================================================
> Batch Size: 25.000 L
> Boil Size: 30.000 L
> ...


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## mje1980 (22/12/10)

My first

55.5% Trad ale
39.5% JW wheat
2.5% Biscuit
2.5% Carahell

Galena 60 
Columbus 10

1.045
17 IBU

US05

Trying this now after doing the "ross" method of carbing ( getting the hang of this finally! ), and im liking it!. Could be more hoppy, which surprises me with all the wheat, but if it wasn't my only keg, i'd be wahcking some amarillo in there. Great beer. I much prefer it as a quaffer to the adjunct lagers ( much easier too! ). 



Yum yum !!


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## tiprya (26/9/11)

I have one of these fermenting - the Brewing Classic Styles recipe with:
2.7kg Trad Ale
1.7kg Rye
1.4kg Wheat

I am fermenting with US05.

Should I crash chill to clear this beer up - or should I leave it cloudy like a hefeweizen?


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## yardy (26/9/11)

crash every beer imho, did you have any Carafa ll in there ?


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## tiprya (26/9/11)

No Carafa II - this is the first time I've brewed this style and I wanted to keep it pretty standard. Do you think that is a good addition for next time?

According to the GABF guidelines it can be with or without yeast, so I guess I'll try it cloudy the first time and see how I like it.


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## tumi2 (7/7/15)

Hi everyone,
I am hoping for some thoughts on this recipe I am developing. I[FONT='ｍｓ 明朝']’[/FONT]ve not done a beer like this before so open to any ideas.

Objective – Use ingredients I have on hand, make a nice summer wheat American Ale with some freshness and dryness. Avoid the classic german wheat flavor from traditional german yeast.

Style: American Wheat or Rye Ale
2.8kg Pale Malt 55% - for malt balance and bulk flavor
1.8kg Wheat malt 35% - because I like it and wheat makes for a nice summer drinkable beer and have loads of it
0.45 Rye Malt 9% - because I want to use what I have and I like the rye dryness, also may make a nice color with the lightness of the wheat malt.

10gr [email protected] 60 mins
10gr [email protected] 40 mins
20Gr Cascade @ 0 Whirlpool

Cascade because I like the flavor and aroma, it is an American ale hops matching style and I know I can get it easily.

25gr Orange peel at 10mins remaining of boil to add some citrus flavor and Im curious as I have never done it before.

Mash @ 66degs, don[FONT='ｍｓ 明朝']’[/FONT]t feel a need for a protein rest given I am using all malt and dont want to risk loosing a thick head.

US-05 American Ale Yeast – I like to stick to standard yeast when I am trying a new recipe. Ferment at about 18 or perhaps a little cooler depending on the weather for the week.

SG = 1049
IBU = 21

I intend to ramp up the Calcium Chloride and avoid sulphates to enhance some maltiness in hope it may balance the dryness of the rye and floral nature of the cascade. I will use the EZ calculator to ensure im in the rough range.

Can anyone share some thoughts with me on this recipe, am I nuts mixing the rye and wheat given the style name is [FONT='ｍｓ 明朝']“[/FONT]American wheat OR Rye Ale[FONT='ｍｓ 明朝']”[/FONT].
thanks


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## rude (17/2/16)

Might have a go at this style any comments welcomed


View attachment 86923
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## rude (17/2/16)

View attachment American Wheat.txt


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## Blind Dog (17/2/16)

Nice. I like single hop American wheats and use a base similar to yours (45/45/10). I find they're a great base to test what the hops brings, without being boring. Mind you I like them with a variety of complimentary hops as well, although then I'll up the hops to around 40-50 IBUs, mainly late, and probably dry hop as well, so more a session wheat IPA.


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## rude (18/2/16)

Cheers for feedback BD

Will taste & see if keg hops are needed


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## rude (20/4/16)

Ok did this one, drank it, not bad

Never used keg hops ' used brun balanced profile @ 5.31 with no ph meter check, with R/O water

Drank this way too early as came into its own after 2 weeks

Was quite tart early on but did balance out a bit later on

Was a refreshing drink at 4.5% will do again maybe more hops heaps of room with this style


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