# Base Malt!



## ohitsbrad (17/11/07)

I'm planning my first few all grain brews. But let's stay on topic. What are your preferences for base malt when it comes to American style ales? Let's say including American pale ale, amber ale, brown ale, IPA and IIPA.

How do Australian malts rate against English and German malts?
Do you pay the higher price to use English or German malt in your American ales?
Do you like to use ale or lager/pilsner malt for pale ales?

How do you rate Joe White ale malt, Joe White pilsner malt, Barrett Burston ale malt, and Barrett Burston pale malt?
Is it worth choosing Bairds maris otter instead? Or Bairds lager malt? Or Weyermann pilsner malt?
Is Joe White munich malt any good?


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## matti (17/11/07)

Hehehe too many question.

As the season will vary so will the malt.

If you are truist use the base malt from that continent you try to emulate the style of beer it's from.
That goes with the hops as well.

Look at the recipes on site and go throught the recipe and Ingredients threads.

There's a few there on APA's

Nothing wrong with aussie malts. You may find a little bit less efficiencies at times because of the draught.


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## dig (17/11/07)

I went to a brewpub in Canada that made all of their beers from Thomas Faucet floor malted Marris Otter. Good beers. Couldn't taste the TFMO in the big hoppy ales. Go to another brewpub that uses the local malt and what do know, can't taste their base malt in their IPA either. It's like a lightly sauted scallop covered in vindaloo paste; you'd be a better man than me if you could tell that it came from Coffin Bay.

Get the hop part right. Base malt need only be clean and reliable.


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## razz (17/11/07)

TFMO for mine, and like dig says, with a strong hoppy ale you won't know the difference between base malts.


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## Tony (17/11/07)

Good advice Dig.

I just stick with the cheaper aussie base malts these days. I can pick up a bit of a difference between base malts like IMC ale and say Bairds Golden Promise but the difference is so little its not worth the extra 30% or more in cost.

If you want a maltier base malt, add 10% munich with your cheaper base malt. Easy.

As for the Pils, ale base malt argument...... thats up to you. Try making a simple APA with pils as base, the same beer with ale malt as the base and then say one with 50/50 pils/munich.....mmmmmm 

that way you will know what difference it makes and what you like..... and thats the most important thing. I can tell what i like but i can be a bit out there sometimes.

I made a fantastic robust porter once using 50/50 pils/munich as the base malt. Bloody hell it was nice. The pils gave it a light malt sweetness to ballance the roast and the munich added a big maltiness that just belongs in a big porter.

cheers


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## mika (17/11/07)

IMHO it's worth paying more for the German/english malts, but then it depends on what you're planning to brew. I've used Joe White as a base malt before and not had a drama, but then I'm not a big fan of their wheat malt. It's all horses for courses. Maybe best to line up several styles you want to brew and post back here then people could give you a better indication. Alternatively do some double brew days (or brew days not too far apart) get the two different types of malt from your local HBS and try them out, see if you can notice a difference. The Local HBS should will be able to sell you just a batch of malt suit one brew, crushed or un-crushed. Nothing beats your own taste buds for advice.


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## dig (17/11/07)

I use a range of different base malts in the brewery and I'm not really sure why. I've made gold winners at the AIBA with JW Export Pils, Kirin pale, Bairds GP and Barrett Burston Galaxy.


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## johnno (17/11/07)

I like using BB and Powells.

I do think the Weyermann is superior quality but it can get a bit pricey.

cheers
johnno


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## Jazzafish (17/11/07)

JW Pils and Trad Ale are both fine for american styles that are driven by hops. No problem at all. It is a base malt and the majority of malt flavour comes from other malts like crystals. But the hops dominate.

I agree and my experience tells me that Tonys method has alot of merit and is effective... that said, if you are making a malt driven beer, choose a malt imported from the styles region of origin.


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## Fents (17/11/07)

I buy Joe White most of the time. helps support the wheat farmers in tough times to.


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## dr K (17/11/07)

The JW, IMC and BB domestic malts are all very very good.
Weyermann Pilsener seems to be very popular here in Kanbeera.
For bullet proof british ales there seems to be only one choice..Maris Otter.
there is a difference in base malts, but there is also a difference in water profiles not to mention brewery regimes...my advice, get your techs right with quality domestic malt then move to others.
Most importantly get a LHBS , or OLHBS with a high turnover so you can be assured of the freshest possible, might I suggest that as an OLHBS both NNL and Craftbrewer are to be considered.

K


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## Trent (17/11/07)

I am gonna be honest with ya here
I use IMC base malt for just about all my APA's, IPA's, belgians, etc.. now and am quite happy with em. Very happy, actually. BUT, if ya wanna make a beer that really stands out, go the extra expense and get the british base malts, like Maris Otter or Golden promise. IMC makes some great malt, but it doesnt have the maltiness and complexity that is provided by the floor malted english varieties. IMO.
As others have stated, you are a better man than they if you can pick the difference between cheap malt and more expensive malt, and you are best trying all the options before deciding which malt you like best. I have always found the JW malts lacking for something, but that is just me.
At the end of the day, 5kg of aussie malt vs 5kg of maris or GP, the difference is at most $10, or 30c a longneck. If you find the british (or german, czech, whatever) malts more to your liking, then it is probably worth the extra 15c per glass. If ya cant pick a difference, save yer $10 for something else, like hops and yeast.
All the best
Trent
EDIT Terrible spelling


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## Kai (17/11/07)

For an APA? Whatever floats your boat. I use JW or BB ale, Weyerman pils, vienna or munich depending on what tickles my fancy at the time. And, on how malty I want it. Most of the time just JW trad ale since it's usually the most common one around. Like dig said, an APA is much more about the hops in my book.


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## Uncle Fester (17/11/07)

If your'e talking APA, then hop the Christ out of it and the base malt fades to obscurity :beer: 

Fester


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## Trent (18/11/07)

Alot of people are saying that APA's are all about the hops, but in my experience, the best APA's are balanced with a good malt backbone, rather than just hops. Yes, the hops are supposed to be at the forefront, but having a nice malt presence really enhances the drinkability of the beer. I still think that Sierrra Nevada Pale Ale, basically the benchmark of the style, is one of the most balanced APA's I have ever had. In my opinion (and probably mine only), if ya wanna hop the be-jesus outta yer pale, make it an IPA, where it is expected to be over the top hoppy (though even there, I like some malt to stand up), I reckon an APA should be a session style beer, and balanced as such. 
At the end of the day, though, it is your call.
All the best
Trent


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## dr K (18/11/07)

really have to agree with Trent on this one. APA, like all beer, is about balance, if you hop the heck out of it make sure you have a malt backbone as solid and straight as a steel girder. I once judged a flight of APA's and there two were stand-outs, a hyper hopped number with a huge malt body and a wondrfull, delicate APA, in perfect tune.
The Weyermann web site has an APA designed by Ray (Designing Great Beers) Daniels that is some 97% Vienna malt and.. suprise Cascade....

K


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## Kai (18/11/07)

Trent said:


> Alot of people are saying that APA's are all about the hops, but in my experience, the best APA's are balanced with a good malt backbone, rather than just hops.



"all about the hops" doesn't mean overhopped or imbalanced, it just means the hops are what defines the style, be it a 100% lightly hopped low alcohol APA or something a little ballsier..


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## Jazzafish (18/11/07)

dr K said:


> really have to agree with Trent on this one. APA, like all beer, is about balance, if you hop the heck out of it make sure you have a malt backbone as solid and straight as a steel girder. I once judged a flight of APA's and there two were stand-outs, a hyper hopped number with a huge malt body and a wondrfull, delicate APA, in perfect tune.
> The Weyermann web site has an APA designed by Ray (Designing Great Beers) Daniels that is some 97% Vienna malt and.. suprise Cascade....
> 
> K



I agree... But Mashing at 68*C with JW Ale/Pils will improve its balance in high hopped ales. The yeast and fermentation temps are also not to be put in the back seet... Don't be scared of stuck ferments at a 68*C Sacch temp either, my latest summer ale at 67*C went down to 1.007! Shame I was aiming for a 1.010


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## tangent (18/11/07)

i wouldn't touch JW malts with a 10 foot pole
most others have ranged from good to excellent


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## Tony (18/11/07)

I havnt used JW malts in years.

I recently bought a bag of trad ale malt and made a 100% base malt beer with it with 100% POR to see what its like.

I have made a few recently with 100% golden promise, MO, IMC ale ect and all were nice with not much difference detectable. 

The IMC ale was fantastic.

If you want more maltiness in your beer, thats what munich, carahall ect are for IMO.

cheers


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## JSB (18/11/07)

yeap BB Ale malt rocks for an APA

Cheer
JSB


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## dig (18/11/07)

I agree with Tony there. In APAs ans AIPAs, your specialty malts are going to make the difference, not the base. Spend your money there.


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## clay (18/11/07)

I'm interested to know what people think of Galaxy. I'm almost out of pils malt and thinking of getting a sack of this... mainly for hefes but maybe the odd pils or ale


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## dig (18/11/07)

I like Galaxy. The berry size is small, so close up your mill gap or you can expect some pretty bad efficiencies.


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## Hpal (19/9/15)

What do people think of JW Pilsner vs BB Pilsner malt? I only use Weyermann Pilsner malt for my lighter German Lagers and it's the bee's knees. I've used JW Pilsner malt before though and found it tasted really grainy or something and wasn't to my liking. I'm brewing for a relative with a less discerning palate currently and want to shave some off the cost, so was considering trying a sack of BB Pilsner malt as a trial. Cheers, H.


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## Ducatiboy stu (19/9/15)

BB is good. Converts well

JW trad Ale is also good


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## WitWonder (19/9/15)

Why skimp? If you're happy with Wey pils for lighter lagers (personally I wouldn't use anything else) then unless you're aiming for a sub-standard product it'd be silly to use anything else. I always take the attitude that if I'm giving beer away I want to make sure it's the best I can make - I don't want to perpetuate the "Oh that's crap, it tastes like homebrew" phenomenon. Besides, your relative may let his mates try your beer and they may have better palates. As an aside, I think JW pils is crap.


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## Hpal (19/9/15)

Cheers, I'm going to try and make a great beer with BB Pils malt and maybe a different style of lager to what I would make with the Weyermann, something a bit more 'Australian' to suit the tastes of the recipient, but still a great beer. I will still use the German malt for my own kegs. I don't think a less expensive malt will result in a lesser beer, just a different one. Cheers for the opinion on JW, I think along the same lines. I also am very self critical when it comes to beer given away or for tasting, you've your heart in the glass so to speak.


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