# Electric Immersion Heater Users?



## pdilley (11/1/10)

Foray into electricity ahead?

I'm looking at electrifying my 36 litre robinox kettle as a boiling option while I wait for my gas to be fixed. Are there any decent hang over-the-side electric options are out there to use? I think that a 2400w element would give a rolling boil but if not I'm open to hear what you use including two elements on different circuits to reach the boil and then switching to only one element to keep the boil roiling. Thermostat control or?

I'd rather not drill the robinox.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## BjornJ (11/1/10)

Pete,
this may be just what you are looking for?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/2200W-Stainless-Ste...=item4a9d4f04d9 





I think you are supposed to drill a hole for this one, though?

thanks
Bjorn


----------



## scott_penno (11/1/10)

I use one of these and am pretty happy with it...

http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product_in...roducts_id=8227

sap.


----------



## bear09 (11/1/10)

I use my heand held 2200w immersion heater to boil ~30L down to ~24L in a 36L Robinox but it only JUST does the job. It is a rolling boil but only JUST. If I had any more then 30L Id up the wattage.

Go for it. $109 its very easy and it does do the trick.

Cheers.


----------



## Barry (11/1/10)

Grimwood heaters are good. If you hang immersion heaters over the side they need to rearch the bottom or you need to stir the water or wort because you get a "dead" spot under them (I have found out by experince, 90oC sparge water reducing the mash temp by 6oC)


----------



## mxd (11/1/10)

I use this one (not from there but keg king) http://cgi.ebay.com.au/2200W-Stainless-Ste...=item4a9d4f04d9 and can't get a boil in 50 ltrs, it just does 30 ltrs, so I have just ordered a similar one to this (http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product_in...roducts_id=8227). I put some insulation around the urn that has helped but still not acceptable.

My plan is to run the 2200 to get to my mashing temp (set it up on a timer with a tempmate) and then for the boil run both (different power points) to get the boil then one (if it can keep a rolling boil).

cheers
Matt


----------



## Cortez The Killer (11/1/10)

Hi Pete

There's some info here http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...c=25043&hl=

I now only use a single element - as I have it on a timer - so everything is ready to go when I get home from work or wake up

Cheers


----------



## raven19 (11/1/10)

Brewer Pete said:


> I'm looking at electrifying my 36 litre robinox kettle as a boiling option while I wait for my gas to be fixed. Are there any decent hang over-the-side electric options are out there to use? I think that a 2400w element would give a rolling boil but if not I'm open to hear what you use including two elements on different circuits to reach the boil and then switching to only one element to keep the boil roiling. Thermostat control or?



I regularly do 30 - 40L preboil volumes in my kettle. It used 2 x 2400W elements, and I leave both on for a good vigourous boil. My elements are sheathed within the kettle though.

One element would do your job, but it _may _not be vigourous enough. One element would be fine for HLT though.

I have 2 separate circuits in the shed allowing me to take around 10A off each.

I have no thermostat, and have not found a need for one yet. Insulation around the pot will help too.

Just my 2c on my system.


----------



## cliffo (11/1/10)

sappas said:


> I use one of these and am pretty happy with it...
> 
> http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product_in...roducts_id=8227
> 
> sap.



+1 

I have the same element and it is about the best single equipment purchase I have made for my brewing setup.

Don't know how I got by without it for the last few years.

cliffo


----------



## pdilley (11/1/10)

Thanks for the reply guys. If I can get a good boil running even if having to run off of two separate circuits then I might convert to electric full time at the new house I will be building. I can put in some large dedicated circuits to run a bank of electric elements.

I just need to figure out whats the better way to go. The reason I don't want to drill is I could always sell the stockpot in as-new condition and go for a 40L Birko if the element is up to the task for a proper rolling boil. Otherwise I might have to think about plunging into easier to work with aluminium robinox pots and eventually set up 4 to 6 high amperage circuits in my future brew shed to get 2-3 separate one batch boilers going to do 2 or 3 different beers in one brew day. If I go full electric brew then I guess I can bypass gas utility to the new house and look at investing in grid-connected solar panels to help feed back into the grid as well.

Will have to ask BribieG or any other owner if his Birko is a proper boil or not.

I did look at Bjorn's heater and Barry's Grimwood heaters but they are drill the pot type which is not currently what I am looking for until I decide to sell up and go Birkos or go full dedicated stockpots drilled for two elements. Looks like I'll be needing the two-circuits to boil.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## Bribie G (11/1/10)

Pete, the Birko's dial goes up to 110 and I get a good rolling boil on 95 to 100. I've never turned it up to max, in fact I haven't touched the dial for months, just leave it there at its sweet spot, around 97.6 recurring or thereabouts B)


----------



## pdilley (11/1/10)

BribieG said:


> Pete, the Birko's dial goes up to 110 and I get a good rolling boil on 95 to 100. I've never turned it up to max, in fact I haven't touched the dial for months, just leave it there at its sweet spot, around 97.6 recurring or thereabouts B)



Well that puts a spin on things. I can get an urn + element + thermostat at 238.00, toss in 23.80 GST so $270 or two 2400 immersion elements without thermostat at 232 and still need to buy stockpots. Saves running the two high amperage circuits per stockpot. 3 Birkos and 3 dedicated circuits would make a production line if they boil as you say. 

Ah, decisions. Wonder how that ball joint mod at $40 will work difficulty wise?

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## Bribie G (11/1/10)

Lots of urn owners have gone onto a standard ball lock tap or three piece tap. The problem is unscrewing the urn tap, which has been put on by a rattle gun or whatever and needs two spanners with pipes for extra leverage, and careful not to warp the urn wall which is fairly thin metal. Chappo has converted one as a HLT, maybe PM him and see how he got on. I haven't done it yet and would also appreciate some advice myself. Probably best to do it first up while the urn is new and not 'glued up' with varnishes etc from multiple brews.


----------



## pdilley (11/1/10)

Nothing like voiding the warranty on day one 

I might look at getting on for a test run to get me over my current beer making shutdown with the burner in the rental if I could only source a doona 

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## goatus (11/1/10)

anyone got any info on removing elements from kettles and installing them in pots? DIY urn? Im sure people have done it.


----------



## pdilley (11/1/10)

I have a club newsletter with a stainless steel sink modification using elements to heat a large mash. And the drains built in at the bottom already in such a convenient spot! Just box it and spray foam insulate and you are off. Not sure why you could not boil if you had enough circuits and elements. EDIT: The flat sides of a restaurant sized sink make drilling and mounting elements an easy job indeed.

I just canvases my rental and no 15A sockets to be found so no 3600 Watt Birko if I go with one. Have to go 10A 2400 Watt.


----------



## Thirsty Boy (12/1/10)

a nice over the side element works perfectly well for a "single" batch. The advantage you have with electric - is that you can insulate the bejeezus out of your kettle, and a layer of insulation on the outside makes all the difference between 2400W being just barley enough and it being plenty.

No need for the element to be right on the bottom if you are using it for boiling.. the boiling action turns over the wort and kills dead spots. You _will_ get a thermal layering effect if you are just using it to heat to sub-boiling temps.

2400W isn't doing anything in a great steaming hurry though... if you have a serious problem with waiting for your wort to heat up to the boil... then you either need two elements or a bigger element with an adjustable power output. The lower amount of available grunt (compared to a gas burner) is compounded by the fact that with an element, you cant turn it on till its covered and with a bit over the top too -- for me that means I am more than 2/3rds of the way to my pre-boil volume before I can start to add heat.

I am up to brew #3 after converting to electric boils - take a little longer than my three ring burner I suppose.. but I I will save $28 every time I dont swap a gas cylinder and I dont have to make everything near my kettle fireproof anymore. A plastic brewstand (read milkcrates) becomes more than possible. I think I am permanently converted.



> anyone got any info on removing elements from kettles and installing them in pots? DIY urn? Im sure people have done it.



search out "Bucket of Death" or BOD... that'll give you dozens of examples and how to's

TB


----------



## pdilley (12/1/10)

Do the Birko users boil lid on or off. If off I suppose you could always toss in another 2400 Watt over the side for fast boil if that's imporant. Back to two circuits per boiler vessel.

I wonder if BribieG will tell us how long to go from Mash Out / Bag Out to boiling in a Birko in terms of minutes.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## SpillsMostOfIt (12/1/10)

With an electric element, all the energy you pump into the element goes into the water/wort/boil - unlike a gas system where a portion (and I will claim a large one at that) gets blown up the side of the pot and into your brewery.

When I was brewing electrically, my brewstand was two milk crates. I insulated with a couple of layers of cardboard and some nylon webbing.

I reckon you can get a more consistent boil vigor across batches with electricity than you can with gas. Nowadays, boiling with gas, I find that I am forever trying to manage boil vigor against ventilating the brewery to stop it filling up with water and/or CO.

I reckon electric immersion heaters (over-the-side, preferably) are God's gift to brewers and the lack of one is the biggest issue with my current brewery.


----------



## Barry (12/1/10)

Grimwood do supply over the side immersion heaters 4108 series.


----------



## BjornJ (12/1/10)

goatus said:


> anyone got any info on removing elements from kettles and installing them in pots? DIY urn? Im sure people have done it.



You mean like this?






Very low-tech, slightly dangerous, but we managed to finish the DrSmurto's Golden Ale after the big heating element broke in my ebay urn.
(The urn has one 1000w and one 1800w element and the small one was not enough to keep it boiling)

Also note the sophisticated sun screen, keeping the sun out of the kettle with boiling hops  





I bought the 40 litre Birko before the next brew, hehe.
Didn't want to do that again.
But I am sure you could drill a hole in the urn and place the element from the kettle through the wall, that would feel safer than having a power board with an overload switch as protection.


Since I just have switched I have only brewed in the 10A Birko once, but it was slower than then 30 litre ebay one.
Not horribly slow, and it does a good boil when it gets there.

thanks
Bjorn


----------



## SpillsMostOfIt (12/1/10)

That could be the most dangerous thing I've seen in this place.


----------



## rclemmett (12/1/10)

SpillsMostOfIt said:


> That could be the most dangerous thing I've seen in this place.



That is the most dangerous thing I've seen in this place.


----------



## samhighley (12/1/10)

I sense a future Darwin award entry.


----------



## fcmcg (12/1/10)

That did look a tad dangerous......

Anyway...back on topic....

I use my over the side 2400 watt element to help boil( which swmbo , god bless her bought me for xmas). This is in conjuction to my 3 ring burner and was bloody impressed on how quickly it helped bring nearly 50 litres of wort to boil....i think it saved me at least 20 to 30 min getting that volume to boil....i then shut it off and let the burner do the work...

I did try using it to bring my mash up to mash out....wasn't so impressed...especially when i turned it off ( as i could smell some sorching ) and pulled it out...and as i didn't have a bucket of water to dump it into , i managed to burn all the grain stuck to it black...which then took 20 min of scrubbing to get the stuff off....must get that herms going....

Otherwise...i reckon they are a good addition to the brewery arsenal !
Cheers
Ferg


----------



## Thirsty Boy (12/1/10)

They can work OK to raise a mash temp used as an electric mash paddle - *but* - you need to have a pretty loose mash (_min_ 3:1) - you need to keep the thing constantly moving - you have to turn it off and keep on stirring for a minute or so while it cools down - and it helps a lot if you do a little mod work and spread the coils out so that grain can pass through rather than building up in a layer.

In BIAB they work a dream without any issues at all because of the very high L:G - need a bit more care in a normal mash scenario, but they will do the job if you treat em right.


----------



## fcmcg (12/1/10)

Thirsty Boy said:


> They can work OK to raise a mash temp used as an electric mash paddle - *but* - you need to have a pretty loose mash (_min_ 3:1) - you need to keep the thing constantly moving - you have to turn it off and keep on stirring for a minute or so while it cools down - and it helps a lot if you do a little mod work and spread the coils out so that grain can pass through rather than building up in a layer.
> 
> In BIAB they work a dream without any issues at all because of the very high L:G - need a bit more care in a normal mash scenario, but they will do the job if you treat em right.



Thanks Thirsty.....
As usual , you are a wealth of excellent information !
I knew you could use them...i guess my technique needs a little refinning....
Still...HERMS eventually ( this year ) and will just use my element to help bring wort to boil quicker....
Cheers
Ferg


----------

