# My Opinion Is That Rudd Is A Ferral



## fergi (19/2/12)

just sitting here watching the cricket and they show rudd video of him doing his ferral act, this guy is an absolute embarrassment to our country,

he has a foul mouth and lacks people skills, why the hell would they think of bringing him back as PM.

Julia is not much of a leader either but at least she is not FERRAL.

fergi


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## manticle (19/2/12)

I know a few ferals and they are nothing like Rudd. He in turn, is nothing like them.

I don't care for him much at all though.


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## fraser_john (19/2/12)

He seems to fit in with the rest of population then.


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## yardy (19/2/12)

They're all a pack of bastards :icon_vomit:


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## bum (19/2/12)

This is the video where a Chinese interpreter is mangling his statements but that is not shown, yeah? He seemed pretty reserved to me.

EGADS! Politician swears in private life! Let's not judge him on whatever policies he may stand for (assuming this is what politicians do). Let's just do whatever TV tells us to do.


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## white.grant (19/2/12)

I'm not actually looking forward to Tony Abbott as PM, but this seems to make it a foregone conclusion. Unless of course Malcolm Turnbull seizes back the reigns.


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## DU99 (19/2/12)

that was filmed 2 year's ago..wonder which a/hole has decided to release it..people have to remember we only see what media is given or filmed or leaked to them


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## RobW (19/2/12)

Odds on it was leaked by somebody in the ALP.
Julia will be fighting on 2 fronts as long as she's PM.


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## mikec (20/2/12)

I don't understand why anyone thinks it is shocking that a polly swears. Most of us do. I know I do. Why should I give a toss if KRudd does?

How much of this leadership talk has been generated by the parties, and how much by the media? Leadership tensions sell papers.
The ABC dedicated the first ten minutes of the 7pm news to this last night. They seem to have decided that a challenge is on, and if it isn't, they'll make it happen.

As to the current situation... well we are stuffed. Labor is stuffed whether they keep Gillard or bring back Rudd. It's a shame, really. The thought of that religious crackpot on the other side of the table becoming our PM in a year and a bit scares me half to death.
And I'm sorry to say that is probably what will happen. Lots of people would like Turnbull to take the reigns, problem is most of those people are centre-left voters. Turnbull is the Liberal leader every Labor voter wants right now. If it wasn't for his upside-down politicking on the NBN, I'd be one of them.


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## MarkBastard (20/2/12)

The illusion of democracy is very important to keep people in the dark.

The theatre of politics aids with this illusion.


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## Liam_snorkel (20/2/12)

reminds me of that Peter Russel-Clarke video that's been going around. what a pisser :lol:


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## Dave70 (20/2/12)

Mark^Bastard said:


> The illusion of democracy is very important to keep people in the dark.
> 
> The theatre of politics aids with this illusion.




I agree.
I would much prefer a system of totalitarian rule. At least you know where you stand.


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## DUANNE (20/2/12)

mikec said:


> I don't understand why anyone thinks it is shocking that a polly swears. Most of us do. I know I do. Why should I give a toss if KRudd does




for me it is the absolute hypocrisy of the situation. remember this is the same man the kicked dean mighell out of the labour party for using obscene language at a union meeting. stones, glass houses etc.. if the labour party wants to save face then they could do worse than electing simon crean as leader. he is an unashamed union and labour man in the old fashioned sense and would actually stand for something other than his own popularity and promotion, something that is missing in most other politicians these days.


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## fergi (20/2/12)

bum said:


> This is the video where a Chinese interpreter is mangling his statements but that is not shown, yeah? He seemed pretty reserved to me.
> 
> EGADS! Politician swears in private life! Let's not judge him on whatever policies he may stand for (assuming this is what politicians do). Let's just do whatever TV tells us to do.



no its not that video so get your facts right, 
he is still a feral, its not that he swears .its his attitude towards other people, he is an embarrassment to our country for his foul mouth attacks on people,
aka the air hostess that brought his dinner to him on the plane and the verbal attack on her because he thought his lunch wasnt hot enough.

what a wanker he is, and thats the feral in him.

fergi


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## bum (20/2/12)

fergi said:


> no its not that video so get your facts right,


Did you see the question mark at the end of my first sentence? I was attempting to get my facts right. That was the only video mentioned in the online news on that day. I wasn't watching the cricket so I had to enquire as to which video you were talking about. Still somewhat in the dark.

I find that your unwillingness to answer a question directly and your desire to try to score mileage from some perceived discrepancy in my post both smack of arrogance and I hope the AHB caucus votes to relegate you to homebrewdownunder.com when they next convene!


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## bigandhairy (20/2/12)

Dave70 said:


> I agree.
> I would much prefer a system of totalitarian rule. At least you know where you stand.


Where's that like button....


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## petesbrew (21/2/12)

"Fucked up the last word". Lol, That bit cracked me up.


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## MarkBastard (21/2/12)

Only people from SA (the land that time forgot) still use the word 'feral' hahaha.


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## TasChris (21/2/12)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Only people from SA (the land that time forgot) still use the word 'feral' hahaha.


The term "Feral"is used pretty widely in Tas to describe the human filth that I have to deal with all too often.

Rudd is certainly not one of them.
Not that I would vote for him or any other Labor people at state or federal level.
Both state and federal parties are willing to sell out Tasmanian industries in order to cling to power for as long as possible before the inevitable landslide arrives/
Benevolent dictator is the best form of government....until they go crazy with the power and stop being so benevolent.

Cheers
Chris


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## Kevman (21/2/12)

mikec said:


> The thought of that religious crackpot on the other side of the table becoming our PM in a year and a bit scares me half to death.



I want to know why Tony Abbott is seen as a religious crackpt when there is so many news reports, videos, etc of Kevin Rudd doing interviews outside his church. Don't really recall seeing Tony Abbott outside his church - perhaps he doesn't go to church. Yet Kevin Rudd isn't called a religious crackpot.

Or is it left over from the convict days with the Irish Catholic convicts and their Protestant Church of England masters/overseers/jailers. Sort of a don't trust the catholics as they are all crims and a bit mad.

Consider the two statements:
evin Rudd, was a catholic, now Church of England and goes to church is not a religious crackpot.
Tony Abbott, is a catholic, may or may not go to church and is a religious crackpot.


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## mikec (21/2/12)

Kevman said:


> I want to know why Tony Abbott is seen as a religious crackpt when there is so many news reports, videos, etc of Kevin Rudd doing interviews outside his church. Don't really recall seeing Tony Abbott outside his church - perhaps he doesn't go to church. Yet Kevin Rudd isn't called a religious crackpot.
> 
> Or is it left over from the convict days with the Irish Catholic convicts and their Protestant Church of England masters/overseers/jailers. Sort of a don't trust the catholics as they are all crims and a bit mad.
> 
> ...


The difference is that Abbott's religious views influence his policies. As Health Minister he was renowned for it. RU486 was off the table because his religion disagreed with its purpose.
A good friend of mine who was starting up a business in the medical area had a couple of sit downs with him. Abbott's advice to him was that in deciding how to move forward with his business concepts, that first and foremost he should ensure that it complied with good Christian values. That is quoted pretty much word for word.
Sorry, believe anything you want, but religious bias has no place when it comes to my health or the health of my family.


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## the_new_darren (21/2/12)

And JULIAR Gillard is a lying feminist, communist, lawyer.

tnd


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## super_simian (21/2/12)

It's pretty amusing to see how almost everyone who posts political opinions on the AHB assumes everyone else on the AHB will be in agreeance. No doubt there are a wide range of personal politics on the board; from deluded self-sufficiency 'experts' to frothing at the mouth right-wing loons, divorced dads with a grievance to politically correct social worker types. 

If arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics; then arguing politics on the internet is like not even running. Just turning up and flopping around on the start line like a freshly landed fish.


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## Kevman (21/2/12)

mikec said:


> The difference is that Abbott's religious views influence his policies. As Health Minister he was renowned for it. RU486 was off the table because his religion disagreed with its purpose.
> A good friend of mine who was starting up a business in the medical area had a couple of sit downs with him. Abbott's advice to him was that in deciding how to move forward with his business concepts, that first and foremost he should ensure that it complied with good Christian values. That is quoted pretty much word for word.
> Sorry, believe anything you want, but religious bias has no place when it comes to my health or the health of my family.



But there's the other piece of misinformation. Senator Brian Harradine was the one who argued it should be illegal and effectively got it passed by virtue of balance of power. Ironically the ALP and Greens also supported the bill.


> The amendment, proposed by anti-abortion campaigner and former independent Senator Brian Harradine, was specifically designed to prevent women in Australia from accessing RU486 by giving the health minister veto powers. Federal Coalition support for the amendment was traded for Harradine's support for the partial sale of Telstra. The ALP and one Greens senator also supported Harradine's amendment, but the Democrats voted against.


From here http://www.greenleft.org.au/node/34771

Seems to have been a bipartisan decsion to ban it.

mikec, believe what you like but I at least do some research rather than blindly following other's opinions.


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## bum (21/2/12)

super_simian said:


> It's pretty amusing to see how almost everyone who posts political opinions on the AHB assumes everyone else on the AHB will be in agreeance.


On a related, though irrelevant, tangent - my ignore list is half full of people who decide that the best way to ingratiate themselves with everyone here when they join up is to start with the racist jokes. "I mean, I'm a racist and I make beer so everyone who makes beer must be - right?"

Anyway, my point is, +1.


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## Dave70 (21/2/12)

super_simian said:


> It's pretty amusing to see how almost everyone who posts political opinions on the AHB assumes everyone else on the AHB will be in agreeance.



Cant you spot a Stormfront recruitment drive when you see it?


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## mikec (22/2/12)

Kevman- touch on the RU486 bill. I would contend that it was not Harradine's idea to give Abbott veto powers, but was asked/encouraged to introduce the bill by the Libs. But I have no proof of this.
That Labor and one of the Greens also supported it is disappointing. 

What do you say to the second part of my post? Not following anyone's opinion there, it is a statement of fact.


Super_simian - arguing both religion and politics on the internet at the same time has got to be, what, just crazy!!


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## bum (22/2/12)

mikec said:


> Super_simian - arguing both religion and politics on the internet at the same time has got to be, what, just crazy!!


In any context, really - hence many peoples' distaste for Abbott.


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## Kevman (23/2/12)

mikec said:


> What do you say to the second part of my post? Not following anyone's opinion there, it is a statement of fact.



The second part of your post is pure hearsay. You weren't present in the conversations so you can't say word for word what was said. You can't even state that what was said is a fact. That's why I didn't bother with the second part.

Don't take it to heart mikec as I tend to apply the same sort of critical thinking fact finding to most things before I make a decision.
For eg on the Original Topic.
Is Rudd a Feral? I don't think so. He doesn't dress like a feral or speak like a feral. Tends to speak some sort of bureaucrat language.
The video shows that he swears. Gee I get more f#$ks to the minute that Rudd when something goes badly wrong when brewing. Even in the workplace, if it goes badly wrong, I can get more f's to the minute than Rudd. Does swearing make you a feral? If it does, in that case, just about all of Australia is feral.

From what I've read on numerous sources and the turnover of staff, when he was PM, I'd say he would be a difficult boss to work for. Swearing at your staff probably doesn't help matters but then it happens in many other workplaces also (bosses swearing at staff).


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## RobW (24/2/12)

It's interesting that the pollie who has trouble connecting with the public (Gillard) seems to have strong support from the people who know and work with her, while Rudd who connects better with the voters is generally disliked by those close to him and those who work for him.
Gillard at least has a record of achieving policy targets and getting legislation through Parliament.
Rudd is too much of a micro manager and clearly not a team player.
He needs to realise he wasn't elected as PM, he was just the leader of the ALP when it won the election.


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## mikec (24/2/12)

Kevman said:


> The second part of your post is pure hearsay. You weren't present in the conversations so you can't say word for word what was said. You can't even state that what was said is a fact. That's why I didn't bother with the second part.



Mate I was close enough to the situation to take it as fact.


On a lighter note -THE WINNER OF LABOR'S LEADERSHIP BATTLE IS...


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## Maheel (24/2/12)

RobW said:


> while Rudd who connects better with the voters .



i dont really understand who could like KR... he's got the flip top head & cheesy grin that scares babies 

i dont vote labour but personally rather listen to JG, i mean it's just so Australian to have a Ranga PM  

that's nearly worth them ruining the economy with mad taxes and putting us into HUGE labor debt.....


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## jlm (24/2/12)

mikec said:


> On a lighter note -THE WINNER OF LABOR'S LEADERSHIP BATTLE IS...



Yep. Ol' Tone could put forth policy declaring he will personally sacrifice the firstborn of every family whose name starts with F so he may bathe in their blood thereby helping stave off the effects of age and increasing his triathalon performance and still look like the better alternative. That could almost get me to vote for whichever L party he's Caudillo of atm though.


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## manticle (24/2/12)

I'm going to vote for the most fiscally conservative, socially conservative, compassionate conservative, forward thinking, nation building, nation leading party starting with 'L' that I can think of. 

After all we need to move backwards to move forwards.


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## Rina (26/2/12)

My opinion is that Rudd is an odd, odd man.


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## ploto (26/2/12)

manticle said:


> After all we need to move backwards to move forwards.



_"we must move forward, not backward; upward, not forward; and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom! "_


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## Whiteferret (26/2/12)

RobW said:


> It's interesting that the pollie who has trouble connecting with the public (Gillard) seems to have strong support from the people who know and work with her, while Rudd who connects better with the voters is generally disliked by those close to him and those who work for him.
> Gillard at least has a record of achieving policy targets and getting legislation through Parliament.
> Rudd is too much of a micro manager and clearly not a team player.
> He needs to realise he wasn't elected as PM, he was just the leader of the ALP when it won the election.




Thats all Julia is.
Who cares if the leader changes. Its the party's policies that matter thats what we should care about when we vote.
Keep the bastards honest except they change their promises when they want.
If they change it at least they could get it right.
F#$kers!


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## manticle (26/2/12)

ploto said:


> _"we must move forward, not backward; upward, not forward; and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom! "_



That quote is from 'Glee' isn't it?


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## ploto (26/2/12)

manticle said:


> That quote is from 'Glee' isn't it?



No, but it's on the same channel.

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0002984/quotes


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## Liam_snorkel (27/2/12)

got a kick out of this in the last hour: http://twitter.com/#!/KevinRuddExPM


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## Rob S (27/2/12)

Loser's on the back bench now. Bring on an election.


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## Liam_snorkel (27/2/12)

Elections are a pain in the arse, IMHO. 
A month of ridiculous political advertising and bullshit from both sides & mining companies crying poor, then I have to give up 1/2 of a Saturday morning lining up & dodging spruikers just to avoid a fine. Boo.


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## MarkBastard (27/2/12)

Why would anyone want an election? To fast track Abbott in?


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## Josh (27/2/12)

I wonder how Shorten & Combet would fare in an election? Just putting it out there...


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## seamad (27/2/12)

Liam, i never go to a polling booth, just apply for a postal vote because you will be away on holidays ! Application forms are in the junk mail the candidates send.
Anyone but the madmonk.


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## Rob S (27/2/12)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Why would anyone want an election? To fast track Abbott in?



Uh huh. 220 billion in debt (240 billion spent in the last 5 years). Gonna take a fair bit of fiscal responsibility to reel that back in. Why wait until 2013.

Howard took over in '96 with 96 billion in debt and turned that around and got us 20 billion or so surplus and another 20 billion in the futures fund.

Sure he had to cut back on education, health, pensions etc... and you can hold it against him but it wouldn't have had to happen if Hawke and Keating didn't run down the country......the recession that we had to have. Now it's time for Abbott to do the same and try to get the country back on track. I'm glad Gillard won. She's going to get annihilated in the next election. I can hardly wait. If only the self-serving pissweak independents will call a no-confidence vote then we can get on with it.

I hope all you Labour voters have enjoyed the cream of the last 5 years. Lived it up. Lived it large. Spent your $900 on something nice and expendable. I put mine in my offset account, but then again I am a Tory. I started tightening my belt and putting all my spare money into my offset as soon as Kevin07 became PM as I knew that bad times may be coming. Smug bastard. Useless prick. Useless party.

It's time again for the Liberals to start reeling back the debt. It'll take a decade of belt tightening, and just after the debt is reeled in and there's a surplus, people will forget and vote the next big Labour thing in and the cycle will start again. Good vs Evil. Ying and Yang. Who gives a ****.


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## MarkBastard (27/2/12)

I can't believe it's actually possible that someone is so retarded they don't even know how to spell the name of the party governing Australia.


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## Liam_snorkel (27/2/12)

tl;dr


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## Rob S (27/2/12)

Mark^Bastard said:


> I can't believe it's actually possible that someone is so retarded they don't even know how to spell the name of the party governing Australia.



I can't believe it's actually possible that someone is so retarded that they vote for the _Labor _party...

But I can pronounce hyper-bole.

Remember we're all part of the AHB forum.......or as Gillard puts it "we are the us".

It wasn't RSnewin that made a pre-forum promise to spell Labor correctly.



Liam_snorkel said:


> tl;dr



Short attention span? Short memory? Glossed over the Hawke/Keating years? Easy fix - don't vote, don't bother complaining.

By 1990 no Australian child will be living in poverty. The only good thing in his favour is that he could neck a beer - and still can.


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## MarkBastard (27/2/12)

Why do you assume I'm a Labor voter?

I think staunch Labor and Liberal voters are about equally retarded.


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## Liam_snorkel (27/2/12)

Rob S said:


> Short attention span? Short memory?


well yes, but:


Mark^Bastard said:


> I think staunch Labor and Liberal voters are about equally retarded.


+1


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## Rob S (27/2/12)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Why do you assume I'm a Labor voter?
> 
> I think staunch Labor and Liberal voters are about equally retarded.



I can't see how I assumed anything about you, it was a general statement. I personally swing vote for mayoral, state and federal, but it seems that for the last 20 or so years I'm swinging towards Liberal for my federal vote.

In all honesty I think that I put too much thought into the debate. I'm sure I'd be much happier if _Labor_ was in by a clear majority. I think I'm getting angry at the minority government making deep rooted changes when I believe it has no mandate to do such things. To lie to the public pre-election, to have less votes overall than the Coalition, to manipulate the independents, to bend over backwards for the greens, then have the audacity to bring in lasting changes for the majority of the population based on the minority view, is not my idea of democracy. Maybe I have the wrong idea.

To have Albanese then say that his primary job is "to keep out the Tory's" rather than to lead and govern the country was the final nail in the coffin. **** 'em. Useless bunch of power-hungry pricks. Continuing a trend of the same for the last 20+ years.

Or as Liam_snorkel would say too long;didn't understand


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## MarkBastard (27/2/12)

I'm pretty sure Labor had the most votes by far, and they formed a coalition with other parties to make up enough numbers to form a government.

The Liberal/National coalition did form their coalition many moons ago, however neither party is voted for by a substantial majority of Australians, ever, and the philosophical differences between the Libs and Nats are well known, so you can't just say that people that vote for one party agree with the policies of the other party. It's a marriage of convenience only.

What are the deep rooted changes that you are so against? I'm guessing the ETS is the main one?


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## Rob S (27/2/12)

****Attention Liam_Snorkel. Don't bother reading this. Have another home brew instead****

It's not an ETS, it's a Carbon Dioxide Tax.

I'm fine with tax. Tax it great. Tax keeps things rolling along. We need it. What we don't need is tax upon tax upon tax. We have income tax. Then what we have left over from that we pay GST. Then in conjunction with GST we will now be paying a Carbon Dioxide Tax. They should just call it pollution tax because we all know that CO2 is vital for life on the planet. It's stupid, it's mis-named, it's treating us like idiots. Call it a Pollution Tax, bring it in at the same price as the Chinese, the USA or the Indians (the 3 largest polluters) and we'll go from there. Don't bring it in at 16x the level of the Chinese and expect us to think it's manna from heaven.

Don't get me started on the "citizens assembly" to discuss the carbon tax scheme.

Don't get me started on boat people.

Don't get me started on the live cattle export trade.

Don't get me started on the BER.

Don't get me started on roof bats.

Don't get me started on the NBN.

Don't get me started on the Mining Super Profits Tax which will enable multinational companies to pay ****-all with local Australian owned companies to be priced out of the market.

Don't get me started on the private health rebate.

Don't get me started on Fair Work Australia.

Don't get me started on how Gillard strung the Craig Thompson affair on, and used Fair Work Australia to delay any proceedings.

Don't get me started on how Gillard strung Andrew Wilkie along just long enough for her to get Slipper in and Jenkins out then tells him to pretty much **** off.

Don't get me started on Slipper. 100 years ago he'd be hung drawn and quartered.

I think I'm actually ready to start now.....fire away.


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## MarkBastard (27/2/12)

I would love to get you started on the NBN. If you are seriously going to argue that Labor's IT policies are worse than the Liberals I will piss myself laughing.


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## Rina (27/2/12)

Rob S even Abbot gives Hawke\Keating kudos for handling the (major) economic reforms of the 80/90s


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## .DJ. (27/2/12)

I rekon the Greens should be in charge...

Bob Brown for PM!!!


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## Dave70 (27/2/12)

Rob S said:


> ****Attention Liam_Snorkel. Don't bother reading this. Have another home brew instead****
> 
> Don't get me started on the "citizens assembly" to discuss the carbon tax scheme.
> 
> ...








I bet you are a HUGE 2GB listener Rob S. Am I right?


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## super_simian (27/2/12)

Rob S said:


> Don't get me started on boat people.



What, the ~4% of "illegal" migrants who arrive by boat? As opposed to the ~96% who come by plane? Why anyone cares is beyond me.


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## MarkBastard (27/2/12)

They care because they are told to care. The TV told them it was serious business.


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## seamad (27/2/12)

Or it was in the daily telegraph


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## goomboogo (27/2/12)

Rob S said:


> In all honesty I think that I put too much thought into the debate.



There's no evidence of this, so far.


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## manticle (27/2/12)

ploto said:


> No, but it's on the same channel.
> 
> http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0002984/quotes



Just jokes about the twirling. I know where the quote is from.


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## DUANNE (27/2/12)

Rob S said:


> Uh huh. 220 billion in debt (240 billion spent in the last 5 years). Gonna take a fair bit of fiscal responsibility to reel that back in. Why wait until 2013.
> 
> Howard took over in '96 with 96 billion in debt and turned that around and got us 20 billion or so surplus and another 20 billion in the futures fund.
> 
> ...




who cares how many poeple die and how many kids are left without a future from the cut backs what really matters is a piece of paper that has a surplus. funny how in the real world australian unemployment under labour is down ( going completly against abbot and the right wing medias rhetoric). funny how australian debt is actually very low by world standards at this time and our economy one of the best and most stable in the world. all acheived in a worldwide depression.
so what is the religious crackpot offering us,oh thats right bring back a lot of old howard era policies such as workchoices and tempory protection visas. if you want to see a country run by the extreme right wing beliefs look no further than the us. thats right they have gone down and taken the world with them.a country with no health care an uber expesive education system and third world pay rates and conditions for average workers. now look towards one of the most succesfull economys in germany. free health care for all, free education for all and very high standards of pay and conditions for most of the population. if you choose to believe all the right wing propoganda and bullshit these roles should be reversed no?
im no labor voter but i would prefer julia over a no idea abbot any day. but then id rather vote for daffy duck than any of our current politicall partys at the moment aswell, he would probably have more originall ideas than either of them any way.


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## bum (27/2/12)

Mark^Bastard said:


> They care because they are told to care.


Not sure I agree with this. My experience is that people genuinely ARE that petty and selfish.


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## pk.sax (27/2/12)

@ BEERHOG For the first time, someone I can say +1 to. In Germany itself, people lament the high tax rate.

However, they got way better education systems, cheaper food, cheaper rents, cheaper transport, much much safer streets (from personal experience) and are NOT communist. A socialist welfare government is perhaps the most responsible thing out there.

tbh, the greens are closer to that sort of ideology than anyone else but seriously, Bob Brown!!! wtf! They need some new decisive believable leadership and Australia might be the first big place with a greens govt.
I just remember this video Bob Brown posted on YouTube last election and he managed to warble his way through ~2-5 minutes without saying absolutely anything of any significance.


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## Rowy (27/2/12)

super_simian said:


> What, the ~4% of "illegal" migrants who arrive by boat? As opposed to the ~96% who come by plane? Why anyone cares is beyond me.




Super Simian just one small point of order. The ones thagt arrive b y plane have papers..............the ones that arrive by boat, in thevast majority don't. Makes backgound checking nearly impossible. When the left put the arrive by plane argument forward they always forget the bit about the papers.


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## bum (27/2/12)

Because people fleeing political persecution are able to get passports.


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## Josh (27/2/12)

Getting pretty OT, but my opinion is that anyone with the pluck to get on a boat and travel halfway round the world with no guarantee of being allowed in, probably has something to offer this country. And I grew up in Penrith. In the electorate of Lindsay, which almost swung back to the coalition solely on a stop the boats campaign.


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## sinkas (28/2/12)

Hey Rob, your missing out on TAlkback radio bloke, get on the line and tell em whatswhat


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## bconnery (28/2/12)

practicalfool said:


> I just remember this video Bob Brown posted on YouTube last election and he managed to warble his way through ~2-5 minutes without saying absolutely anything of any significance.


He's a politician. THis is pretty much par for the course...


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## Liam_snorkel (28/2/12)

I know a few flag waving, southern cross tattoo wearing, "**** off we're full" types. They can't keep a job for longer than a few weeks, keep impregnating different (also unemployable) slappers, and all the while feel like they have some divine right to judge people who come here seeking asylum. 
IMHO we should revive the 'people swap' policy with a twist & send these dickheads out to some middle eastern desert, and tell them to re-join the imaginary queue if they want to return. I'll take the bilingual hard working grateful refugee over them any day.


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## Dave70 (28/2/12)

bum said:


> Not sure I agree with this. My experience is that people genuinely ARE that petty and selfish.



Hey Bum, ever read Christopher Hitchens work? I like him. I think you would to.
_
"My own view is that this planet is used as a penal colony, lunatic asylum and dumping ground by a superior civilisation, to get rid of the undesirable and unfit. I can't prove it, but you can't disprove it either."_

- From God Is Not Great, 2007

Of course, Hitchens is being a little ironic and facetious there.


Cheer up mate, we're not all seeking to suck the jam out of your doughnut.


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## MarkBastard (28/2/12)

bum said:


> Not sure I agree with this. My experience is that people genuinely ARE that petty and selfish.



Fair point.

I would say that the bogans are indeed racist hate-filled arseholes, but this stems from a genuine ignorance that they aren't entirely responsible for. It's cultural and something that can only change over time.

The politicians should basically know better. They have an education. They know that it's not really an issue but also know it's an easy ground to 'play politics' on. They know that overall it's a politically smart move to do and something that will win them votes overall, which I guess shows that the majority of Australians really are ******* idiots.


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## bum (28/2/12)

Dave70 said:


> Hey Bum, ever read Christopher Hitchens work? I like him. I think you would to.


No I haven't but I have been looking for God Is Not Great through COMPLETELY LEGITIMATE AND NOT AT ALL ILLEGAL avenues for a little while now without success.



Mark^Bastard said:


> The politicians should basically know better. They have an education. They know that it's not really an issue but also know it's an easy ground to 'play politics' on. They know that overall it's a politically smart move to do and something that will win them votes overall, which I guess shows that the majority of Australians really are ******* idiots.


I agree with all of this but it really just follows a big circle. Keating was the basically the only PM we had that came close to breaking this cycle but for his troubles he is remembered as a villain when, in actuality, his policies are what set us up to be one of the few countries not nearly decimated by the last 3 global economic crises. No politician will ever stay in power in this country if they take a "I know better than you do" attitude. I'm not sure why people don't actively want a person "better" than themselves in power - not necessarily saying Keating was that person, of course.


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## Dave70 (28/2/12)

bum said:


> I'm not sure why people don't actively want a person "better" than themselves in power .




Because people are arrogant and ignorant. I _want _ a real leader. An inspirational statesman and gritty man of action the likes of Churchill, Teddy Roosevelt or even idealists like Gandhi. Gives us _something _.

I cant do it, and neither can you. I don't want the pisshead down the pub running the country just because I can 'relate' to him, or just because he's a 'top bloke' who can administer a successful meat tray raffle. 
But times don't demand such people. So we get benign puppets, used car salesmen and game show hosts. 

Can you imagine Brits huddled around the wireless in the 1940's seeking words of hope and courage from their leader and having the likes of Gillard or Abbot emit from the crackly speaker?
"Moi fellow Britons" - **** me, it'd be enough to make the Home Guard turn their bed sheets into white flags.


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## Kevman (28/2/12)

Mark^Bastard said:


> which I guess shows that the majority of Australians really are ******* idiots.



So the majority are idiots because they don't agree with you. Hmm - interesting concept.


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## super_simian (28/2/12)

Rowy said:


> Super Simian just one small point of order. The ones thagt arrive b y plane have papers..............the ones that arrive by boat, in thevast majority don't. Makes backgound checking nearly impossible. When the left put the arrive by plane argument forward they always forget the bit about the papers.



Ok, switch your brain to the ON position, then read the quote below. Try reading it a few times, till it sinks in...




bum said:


> Because people fleeing political persecution are able to get passports.



If anything, people who arrive with "papers" often aren't fleeing much more than economic circumstance, and are LESS worthy of refugee status than those who risk their lives on "the boats." Try your chances of obtaining "papers" as an ethnic Tamil trying to GTFO of Sri Lanka for example. Not going to happen.




Mark^Bastard said:


> The politicians should basically know better. They have an education. They know that it's not really an issue but also know it's an easy ground to 'play politics' on. They know that overall it's a politically smart move to do and something that will win them votes overall, which I guess shows that the majority of Australians really are ******* idiots.



Not just Australians. People all over the world. The unfortunate side of democracy is it lets the uninformed and unintelligent vote; and half the time they don't know what the hell is going on. They just go along with what they are told by those with vested interests in either maintaining or challenging the status-quo *for their own ends and/or gain*, not for the greater good of the community. Anyway, enough flopping round on the starting line for me, I have to go make some beer...Or just drink some beer.


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## Rina (28/2/12)

Keating was Australia's greatest prime minister\treasurer.


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## warra48 (28/2/12)

I just love the theatre of the usual ALP behaviour, ie back stabbing, scheming, power broking, faction fighting, hating, lying, elephant memory for past wrongs etc etc.

And now we have a vote of confidence(?) in the PM, (was it 71 to 31 votes?), with all past issues resolved, and with the parliamentary ALP settled down to a permanent love in, so they can win the next election?

They must think we are more stupid than anyone can credit.

That's not to say the other lot are any better. As for my federal local member, castration is too good for him. And as for Bob Turdface, he needs to retire and take up tree hugging again in the forests of Tasmania.

Damn shame the country must be run by politicians.


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## MarkBastard (28/2/12)

Kevman said:


> So the majority are idiots because they don't agree with you. Hmm - interesting concept.



They don't agree with me because they're ******* idiots.


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## Dave70 (28/2/12)

Mark^Bastard said:


> They don't agree with me because they're ******* idiots.




_touche..._


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## pk.sax (29/2/12)

Mark^Bastard said:


> which I guess shows that the majority of Australians really are ******* idiots.



I wouldn't pretend to know who and what of it, but I credit the ALP with trying to tax the mines and the 'Australian people' - greedy shareholders scaring the million rednecks (unfair to actual miners but the downstream mining fed jobs) of the panic and fear that got it watered down and rejected.
As an immigrant not that long ago, one of the best selling points was, the society is quite equitable, most of the people earn about the same, live in the same sort of conditions etc. I know it's not exactly like that, but the vultures tic profiteering of mining companies is adding fuckall to the Australian nation and it's people and the only attempt made to tax it and put that money into building Australia was viciously opposed by the Libs. That is what I define as shallow politics.


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## MarkBastard (29/2/12)

I'd argue that mining lobby groups brought down Kevin Rudd. To some extent interest groups sacked the leader of Australia.


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## Kevman (29/2/12)

Mark^Bastard said:


> They don't agree with me because they're ******* idiots.



More likely they don't agree with you because you're the ******* idiot.


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## Liam_snorkel (29/2/12)

OOH sick burn.


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## MarkBastard (29/2/12)

Didn't see that one coming!


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## tavas (29/2/12)

practicalfool said:


> , but the vultures tic profiteering of mining companies is adding fuckall to the Australian nation



How so?


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## peas_and_corn (29/2/12)

There's a well known economic principle that any economy with a strong mining industry will inevitably have a suffering manufacturing industry. This is principally caused by a rising exchange rate, but also due to the skills hole created by the industry. Personally I'm amazed that Australia makes anything, and it's a testament that what we make is good, competing on the quality side of things as opposed to price (which... well, is impossible). That said, wages for people in the mining industry are quite healthy and there is a lot to be said of the positive economic impact of people merely spending their pay packets.


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## Liam_snorkel (29/2/12)

The mining industry employs a whopping 2% of our workforce. I read that somewhere, it must be true.
One of my mates flies in and out, and spends most of his cash on overseas holidays.


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## pk.sax (1/3/12)

I'm not saying mining is bad, far from it. Where I work, for example, makes a fair buck from flying miners and related flying. That also feeds into the caterers and ground staff that are employed, the accommodation providers etc.
The main problem is that due to the high wage levels created by these flow on mining effects Aussie manufacturing finds it difficult to find and retain skilled personnel. If they pay at similar levels as mining, they are stung by the high resource costs due to the overseas competition for those resources. That is why I liked the idea of a strong mining tax, it will allow the government to subsidise manufacturing and education to retain skills organically. Oh well..... Vote the greens again!?!


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## Liam_snorkel (1/3/12)

could someone explain to me why we can't tax the shit out of the miners & set up a sovereign wealth fund which invests largely overseas, to keep the dollar down to a level where manufacturing and tourism are competitive globally again?


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## pk.sax (1/3/12)

I hear the Chinese have a sovereign fund made from the trillions worth of cheap exports they make that has been buying out foreign enterprise in distress at times.


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## MarkBastard (1/3/12)

practicalfool said:


> I hear the Chinese have a sovereign fund made from the trillions worth of cheap exports they make that has been buying out foreign enterprise in distress at times.



Yeah they own a substantial chunk of the capitalist world, those crazy socialists. Funny thing isn't it. Free markets and all that.


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## super_simian (1/3/12)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Yeah they own a substantial chunk of the capitalist world, those crazy socialists. Funny thing isn't it. Free markets and all that.



Socialist (well, communist) in name only; like any good (evil) regime.


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## tavas (2/3/12)

Liam_snorkel said:


> could someone explain to me why we can't tax the shit out of the miners & set up a sovereign wealth fund which invests largely overseas, to keep the dollar down to a level where manufacturing and tourism are competitive globally again?



And what would the miners use for exploration and investment capital? Bottle tops?

Same reason you can't tax the shit out of people - they'd pack up and go elsewhere and then you'd be left with nothing.

The mining tax was never about setting up a sovereign fund. It was a cash grab to get the budget into the black. It was set to kick in at profits over $75m. Not all companies make over $75m, and not every year. If you wanted an investment fund, you would be better to find a sustainable source of income to invest in, such as a portion of GST or another of the broad base taxes.

Or perhaps the Gov could read the Henry Tax Review and attempt more than just 3 of the 138 items recommeded.


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## tavas (2/3/12)

practicalfool said:


> I'm not saying mining is bad, far from it. Where I work, for example, makes a fair buck from flying miners and related flying. That also feeds into the caterers and ground staff that are employed, the accommodation providers etc.
> The main problem is that due to the high wage levels created by these flow on mining effects Aussie manufacturing finds it difficult to find and retain skilled personnel. If they pay at similar levels as mining, they are stung by the high resource costs due to the overseas competition for those resources. That is why I liked the idea of a strong mining tax, it will allow the government to subsidise manufacturing and education to retain skills organically. Oh well..... Vote the greens again!?!



I certainly don't doubt that mining creates an issue with poaching resources from other sectors, but there is about 1,000,000 people employed in manufacturing in Oz vs around 130,000 people in mining, so you can't blame it all on mining. There are other factors (some related such as strong aussie dollar, although mining companies get hit by that as well) such as raw material costs, manufacturing costs and consumer demand. Mining related manufacturing is a growth business. For example, in Europe the investment into the car industry is about $300/person vs about $20/person here. We all complain how crap Holden and Fords are, but the flow on effect from that industry is massive.

If mining companies make 10% profit which goes overseas, it means 90% of the cash flow has remained in Oz through wages, taxes, spending etc, with a multiplier of 3-5x towards the economy. Better than a Woolworths or Harvey Norman model to buy cheap imports (and send a majority of cashflow overseas) and rebrand them for sale in Oz. 

I'd actually like to see less taxes on everything and more efficient spending by the Gov (either Labor or Liberal). The amount of waste and wasted opportunity is crimminal.


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## bum (2/3/12)

tavas said:


> they'd pack up and go elsewhere and then you'd be left with nothing.


And they can go mine wherever the minerals aren't?

GOOD PLAN!


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## tavas (2/3/12)

bum said:


> And they can go mine wherever the minerals aren't?
> 
> GOOD PLAN!



Plenty of minerals in places OUTSIDE of Australia. 

Miners work here because its low sovereign risk, stable gov, good skill level. But tax the crap out of them, and there's other options.


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## bum (2/3/12)

And no one else would want to mine it if they left? No one wants to make the billions of dollars?

What a load of shit.


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## Liam_snorkel (2/3/12)

Yeah, so find the balance. It's not like our coal is going to grow legs and run away. What do you think is reasonable, 20% of profits? 30%? How about less than 10?
Right now I think we're being taken for a ride.


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## TasChris (2/3/12)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Yeah, so find the balance. It's not like our coal is going to grow legs and run away. What do you think is reasonable, 20% of profits? 30%? How about less than 10?
> Right now I think we're being taken for a ride.


What a meaningingless graph.. here is another one equally relevant


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## Liam_snorkel (2/3/12)

The graph is from treasury. They don't count pirates.


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## TasChris (2/3/12)

Liam_snorkel said:


> The graph is from treasury. They don't count pirates.


No, they are pirates


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## tavas (3/3/12)

bum said:


> And no one else would want to mine it if they left? No one wants to make the billions of dollars?
> 
> What a load of shit.



Of course they would, at less than $75m/yr profit.

Seriously bum, you're a smarter guy than that. Are you just trying to stir shit?


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## tavas (3/3/12)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Yeah, so find the balance. It's not like our coal is going to grow legs and run away. What do you think is reasonable, 20% of profits? 30%? How about less than 10?
> Right now I think we're being taken for a ride.


For sure. Let's tax the buggers.

Start with mining, move to banking and manufacturing and end with farmers, cos those guys always end with a new car after wool/wheat check. Capatalist facists!!!!


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## Liam_snorkel (3/3/12)

yeah! **** all those guys!

:unsure:


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## DUANNE (3/3/12)

yep cant you see the line of oil companies fleeing australia because of the huge tax and excise on fuel. to believe mining companies will leave australia because they have to pay more tax is so simplistic its retarded. and even if they do the easy grab stuff will all be gone soon enough and we can do the same as the arabs do with oil and just name our own price . supply and demand, as the rest of the worlds supply drops off the demand for ours will increase even more tax or no tax.


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