# Basic Ag With Pics For Noobs



## mr_tyreman (5/7/09)

*Well today was brew #8 and i have my method pretty well sorted.

So i thought i'd post up some how too for anyone who is a little lost, like i was not so long ago.

This is not a definitive guide to brewing and i dont believe i have any idea on how to brew great beer, but this method does make beer and its a good start.

Here goes...*

Step 1) Fill your vessel with approximately 17L of water, fire up the burner and get it up to approx 78 degrees








Step 2)

Transfer approx 13L of this water into your mash tun (Esky)
Add in your grain (Approx 5kg)
Stir and make sure the grain isn't clumped up 







Step 3)

Check the tempreture of the mash, do this in several areas of the mash to get an accurate reading.
this should be approx 66 degrees, nice round figure for the beginner. A few degrees either way is fine.







Step 4) Close the lid and start your timer for 1hr, open the lid every 15mins or so and give it a stir and check the tempreture







Step 5) Depending on your burner with plenty of time to go before the 1hr is up, fill your vessel back up with water (approx 35L) and get this up to a temp of approx 90 Degrees, ready for when your 1 hr is up.







Step 6) When your 1 hr is up, open up your mash tun and add approximately 16L of water @ 90 degrees to the mash ( on top of the existing grain and water you added allready)







Step 6) Give this a good stir and make sure if your using a stainless braid, that it is sitting on the bottom, Close the lid and let this sit for 10mins

Step 7) After the 10 mins, Grab a jug and open the tap and fill the jug up, and pour this gently back into the mash tun, repeat this process a good few times to remove any bits of grain etc, that have made it through the braid.

Step 8) When your satisfied that the runnings are quite clear, open the tap and let the runnings flow into the kettle.

Step 9) When the flow stops, close the tap on the mash tun, and with the remaining water that you heated to 90 degrees, add 16L to the mash tun over the top of the grain bed, give this a good stir and check braid... close the lid and let rest for 10mins.

Step 10) After the 10mins, circulate this using the jug like last time, and drain into kettle.






Step 11) With mash tun now only containing the grain, and the kettle now ready to boil... Move your burner over to the kettle and fire it up, full blast 






Step 12) Now that your firing up the kettle with some pretty intense heat, you will need to keep on eye on this (depending on your burner) because it tends to get to a boil very quickly and boil overs aren't much fun at all ). Get the wort to a boil and start your timer for 1hr.







Step 13) Measure your hop additions and add accordingly


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## mr_tyreman (5/7/09)

Step 14) 10 mins or so before the end of the boil, put your immersion chiller into the boil... make sure you crank up the burner, because the chiller will bring the wort off the boil very quickly and you need to keep this boil going.






Step 15) Add your last hop additions before the end of the boil






Step 16) At the 1hr mark, turn off your burner, cover the kettle with aluminium foil or glad wrap and start running cold tap water through the chiller and continue til, water going into the chiller is the same temp as the water coming out.

Step 17) When wort is down to room temp, open the tap and fill your fermentor making sure that it aerates very well, pitch yeast and now.....and only now may you have a brew...hahaha  






Step 18) Pack up, Clean up and grab another brew  you deserve it

Clean up now so next time everything is ready to go, nothing worse than going into the shed and finding filthy kettles and mouldy mash tuns.





Of course you have many options such as Irish moss, Calcium sulfate, No chill etc etc.....


*Hope this helps any new brewers get a feel for how it goes, and give experienced brewers a real good chuckle.*


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## clean brewer (5/7/09)

Good work mate..  









Something wrong with your flame though, a shit load of black soot from that flame...  

:unsure: CB


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## chappo1970 (5/7/09)

clean brewer said:


> Good work mate..
> 
> 
> 
> ...



+1 CB was thinking exactly the same thing

What reg are you running? That puppy should be pumping blue flames and almost melting the ass outa that pot, yeah?

Cheers

Chappo

Edit: Lack of oxygen I suspect?


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## bulp (5/7/09)

But boy do those pictures look cool :beerbang: (grunts like caveman) mmmm fire good beer makem


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## Guest Lurker (5/7/09)

I think that is a Mongolian burner, and that is just what they do, smoke the crap out of what you put on them.


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## mr_tyreman (5/7/09)

yeah, gotta keep the gas presure up to stop it sooting up the air, and a breeze going thru the shed to blow it away....and the soot build up on the kettles is horrid.....im just using the reg from my old 2 ring burner from bunnings.


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## manticle (5/7/09)

Thankyou.

Looking at doing a primitive first AG between tomorrow and Wednesday and this helps a lot.


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## chappo1970 (5/7/09)

MrT I would seriously consider a med or high pressure reg. Demonsura did a thread a while ago [topic="14799"]here[/topic] which really shows how these guys should go although I'm not sure he gave the mongo a rattle?

BTW it's still a very good thread :icon_cheers: 

Cheers

Chappo


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## Stubbie (5/7/09)

> I think that is a Mongolian burner, and that is just what they do, smoke the crap out of what you put on them.


Must be when they're not set up properly, because mine surely doesn't. <_< 
The flames on mine looking nothing like in the photo.


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## smollocks (5/7/09)

Haven't used the mongolian, but surely it has adjustable air intakes to get a hot blue flame?


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## Barramundi (5/7/09)

Guest Lurker said:


> I think that is a Mongolian burner, and that is just what they do, smoke the crap out of what you put on them.




my mogolian doesnt soot up anything , but i was thinkin those flames are quite different to mine , i only use a normal bbq reg with my burner.. what type is used i this setup ?


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## Justin (6/7/09)

Definitely not running right. I'd start trying to work out what the problem may be because it definitiely shouldn't be burning like that. They should burn blue and clean. By the way, set up like that it will not be producing anywhere near the heat that it could be producing.


It definitely looks like a fuel/air mix problem but I'm wondering if possibly the jet size on the brass nozzles could be set up for natural gas? Natural gas jets are larger than LPG ones, so it's possible that you could have the wrong version of the burner. Just throwing theories around but I'd guess having a larger diameter jet would slow the velocity of the exiting gas which may make it less efficient at drawing oxygen (air) into the jet through a venturi effect.

Looks to me like the set up from grain and grape so I'd be chatting to those guys about it. I know these burners are available in two configurations (LPG/NG) so it would not be impossible that yours was labelled incorrectly from the manufacturer.

Get it sorted and you'll be a happier brewer, your equipment wont be black, times to boil reduced, maybe even less gas usage and it wont look like your going to burn your place down.

Good luck. Justin


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## Zwickel (6/7/09)

Justin said:


> It definitely looks like a fuel/air mix problem....



yeah, I think so too. Once I had a similar issue, although the burner worked very well until that date. I was searching like crazy and long time couldnt find out what the problem is. Finally I found a spider (dead) sitting in the tube between the gas/air mxing unit and the gas outlet holes.

Onother day the burner didnt work at all. That time I found some larvas sitting in the gas hose, right before the valve. 

Just have an eye on that.

Cheers :icon_cheers:


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## Justin (6/7/09)

Zwickel said:


> ..... Finally I found a spider (dead) sitting in the tube between the gas/air mxing unit and the gas outlet holes.
> 
> Onother day the burner didnt work at all. That time I found some larvas sitting in the gas hose, right before the valve.
> 
> ...



These models of burners actually have all their jetting at the brass tubes/outlets of the burner, so there are multiple jets (eg. 10, 23, 32 depending on size) so it's unlikely to be blocked in all jets and produce results like that. Given there are no air vents to adjust on these burners (4 predrilled holes per brass vent) and the fact they are apparently designed to use standard low pressure regulators I'm still going to back the possibility of the wrong jetting used on this particular example.

Can anyone with a currently working mongolian burner have a go at measuring your jet size to compare with the OP's jet size? 

I know NG jets are larger than LPG jets to allow more gas volume to be moved. This is because LPG contains roughly 2.5X the energy of NG for a given volume, hence for the same heat output NG has to be delivered at 2.5X the volume of LPG. I just have a funny feeling that there is plenty of gas being delivered but the larger jet holes dont have the velocity to suck sufficient air (venturi action) into the mix from the holes drilled in the side of the brass outlets (the air mix holes, which are non adjustable). Hence you have a large volume of slow moving LPG burning like a hand held lighter, thus producing a large yellow flame.

It's about the only plausible option I can think of. Good luck with it and let us know.
Justin


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## mr_tyreman (6/7/09)

i think you guys are spot on with the jet sizing, i'll give em a buzz today....

just a note, it came with an adaptor to suit 1/4" Gas fitting........where as all my lpg stuff is 3/8".........could this be a clue?

and boil times are still incredibly fast, no complaints there, just the soot factor is annoying.


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## Wisey (6/7/09)

might be made for butane? nfi.


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## Batz (6/7/09)

> Step 6) When your 1 hr is up, open up your mash tun and add approximately 16L of water @ 90 degrees to the mash ( on top of the existing grain and water you added allready)




You don't drain off your first runnings?

Batz


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## buttersd70 (6/7/09)

sounds like this step is just an addition to mashout, batz...in the next few steps he recircs, runs it out, then batch sparges, recircs and runs out again.


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## mr_tyreman (6/7/09)

nah i just add the hotter water to the mash to get a mash out temp a lil higher...it all started with doc smuros golden ale, and i have just ran with it with all my brews.


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## Jase (7/7/09)

First of all mr_tyreman, great post! Am I right in assuming that the brew size are 23 litre batches?



Batz said:


> You don't drain off your first runnings?
> 
> Batz



Batz,

Are there advantages in draining off the first runnings as oppose to adding the first lot of sparge water in the mash tun or is it just a preference thing?

Cheers,
Jase


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## Steve (7/7/09)

Jase said:


> First of all mr_tyreman, great post! Am I right in assuming that the brew size are 23 litre batches?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I thought everyone drained off the first runnings then poured in their sparge water, stir, let sit for 10 mins (optional) and drain off the 2nd runnings? Thats what I do. Also mr-tyreman, when pouring the runnings back into the esky put a plastic lid on top of the grain and pour the water onto that. Disperses it better and doesnt unsettle the grain too much. Definately something wrong with the burner too. Nice pics.
Cheers
Steve


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## cdbrown (7/7/09)

I thought the point was to take the first runnings away as this has most of the fermentable goodness, then sparge with same amount of water in order to "rinse" the grains and get a bit more fermentables. Adding the sparge water on top wouldn't have the same affect and you'd end up with a lower efficiency?


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## mr_tyreman (7/7/09)

i drain the first running in one lot but a with step mash, then refill the mash tun and run off the sparge to rinse the grains.

if that makes sense


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## cdbrown (8/7/09)

yes it does - thanks for that.


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## sama (8/7/09)

how long does it take to boil up with a flame like that mate? Surely it can crank better than that?


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## mr_tyreman (8/7/09)

still extremely quick....gets up to 78 degrees before i can unload the equiptment.....and gets the wort to boil in approx 8 mins.

I still havent figured out what do to do with that burner.... im going to have a play this w/e....coz im not brewing. Got way too much beer laying around here, gotta concentrate on drinking some of it 

gotta free up some fermentors and kegs.


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## Gout (8/7/09)

I look forward to your findings Mr_Tyreman as i am also looking at getting this burner but was slighty worried about the burn and black pot. It seems like some have them working really well and some have issues.

goodluck


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## mr_tyreman (8/7/09)

yeah no prob Gout, theres 2 different nozzles on the burner that aren't burner jets, i will suss what they do....


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## mr_tyreman (11/7/09)

ad a play with the burner today...couln't get it to burn any better....but heres some pics of it running just on its own...what do you reckon?


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## chappo1970 (11/7/09)

Yeee haaawwww!! MrT
"Honey where's me mashmellows?"
Now there is at least 2" of blue goodness there and I'm in love MrT :wub: ...

Cheers
Chappo


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## yardy (11/7/09)

christ on a bike  

looks like it's ok now..


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## mr_tyreman (11/7/09)

nothing has changed, thats how it burns...it just doesn't look like it when theres a keg on top of her


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## chappo1970 (11/7/09)

mr_tyreman said:


> nothing has changed, thats how it burns...it just doesn't look like it when theres a keg on top of her




That's what Paris Hilton said? :lol: 

Chappo


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## felten (11/7/09)

They make the mongolians in 2 flavours, NG and LPG, maybe its an NG?

that's as far as my knowledge on burners goes. 

[edit] i just noticed that was already suggested, also G&G suggests using a low pressure reg with them /shrug


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## sqyre (11/7/09)

That ring at the bottom of your keg is choking your burner... 
Get a 20-25mm hole saw and cut 6 holes at even distances in the bottom ring to let the burnt gas out... 
with that burner i would possibly double the number of holes to 12... 

Sqyre...


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## Screwtop (11/7/09)

sqyre said:


> That ring at the bottom of your keg is choking your burner...
> Get a 20-25mm hole saw and cut 6 holes at even distances in the bottom ring to let the burnt gas out...
> with that burner i would possibly double the number of holes to 12...
> 
> Sqyre...




Hottest part of a flame is the tip, I would drop the burner down a bit, it's too close.

Screwy


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## chappo1970 (11/7/09)

Screwtop said:


> Hottest part of a flame is the tip, I would drop the burner down a bit, it's too close.
> 
> Screwy




Good call Screwy and Sqyre it's choking. Not enough air is getting to it to allow it to breathe.

Chappo


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## cloudy (11/7/09)

Chappo said:


> Good call Screwy and Sqyre it's choking. Not enough air is getting to it to allow it to breathe.
> 
> Chappo


yeh your right it is a mixture problem but it's not from the ring in the bottom of the keg (although that will do it) but look at the photo where it is burning by itself. i have one of these also and it burns perfectly blue and clean.


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## chappo1970 (11/7/09)

cloudy said:


> yeh your right it is a mixture problem but it's not from the ring in the bottom of the keg (although that will do it) but look at the photo where it is burning by itself. i have one of these also and it burns perfectly blue and clean.



+1 Cloudy

By the photo's it's sitting right on top of the burners without any free space, yeah?

Chappo


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## cloudy (11/7/09)

Chappo said:


> +1 Cloudy
> 
> By the photo's it's sitting right on top of the burners without any free space, yeah?
> 
> Chappo


yes and that will cause the problem also but it should not have all of the orange flames when it is burning by itself as demonstrated above.


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## cloudy (11/7/09)

mr_tyreman said:


> ad a play with the burner today...couln't get it to burn any better....but heres some pics of it running just on its own...what do you reckon?


hi Mr Tyreman, i would be looking at this set up because there is a problem, you should have no orange flame at all. i have the same burner.
cheers.


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## mr_tyreman (11/7/09)

Can some one please get some photos up for me...i'd love to see how other peoples mongo's look on full noise...thanx


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## Justin (12/7/09)

It's a smaller burner than yours but you can see what it's supposed to be doing.

I didn't realise how close you has it to the bottom of the keg, thats one issue, but it's still not running right.


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## gregs (12/7/09)

mr_tyreman said:


> *Well today was brew #8 and i have my method pretty well sorted.
> 
> So i thought i'd post up some how too for anyone who is a little lost, like i was not so long ago.
> 
> ...


Mr T; The grain, is it cracked it dos'nt look like it is in the pics ???


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## Screwtop (12/7/09)

Having a second look and reading the posts I have a question for MrT. Do you have a control of some sort on your burner or regulator so that you can turn that puppy down? Most of the Rambo's, NASA's that I've seen have a valve either at the reg or at the burner to control the flame.

Cheers,

Screwy


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## mr_tyreman (12/7/09)

Screwtop said:


> Do you have a control of some sort on your burner or regulator so that you can turn that puppy down?








i was supplied with this pipe and ball valve, combined with a low pressure regulator, from my 2 ring.


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## mr_tyreman (12/7/09)

Cocko said:


> Why?




It would be nice to see how it is supposed to look as a good reference point for further investigation.....


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## mr_tyreman (12/7/09)

gregs said:


> Mr T; The grain, is it cracked it dos'nt look like it is in the pics ???



i assure you it is, this particular batch was milled by G&G


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## Screwtop (12/7/09)

mr_tyreman said:


> i was supplied with this pipe and ball valve, combined with a low pressure regulator, from my 2 ring.




Looks like a gas cock, not exactly a variable control. Would have thought it would have come with something like this to control gas flow to the burner.







Screwy


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## mr_tyreman (12/7/09)

oh yes, good idea....


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## canon1ball (12/7/09)

I got one of the Mongolian burners on town gas; whilst I agree they are hard to tame with just a ball valve (I got your setup) on low, mine is powering away nicely without the sud affect. What distance do you have between the burner and the bottom of your keggle? I had to adust my distance a few times before I got it right.




See burner in action: http://picasaweb.google.com/pemue.syd/Frid...158434661346898 and http://picasaweb.google.com/pemue.syd/Frid...161540749677474

c1b
I should add bottom of my keggle after 3 brews!


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## mr_tyreman (12/7/09)

Thats approx the same height i have mine set too...

Im thinking now its either a pressure issue or its just a NG burner...


Heres a pic of the connection from the reg to the gas tap...the barb thats installed takes the ID of 5/16" hose down to 1/8" then back up to 5/16"

Could this be restricting the flow? i wouldn't have thought so but i'd like to ear what you guys think.


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## cloudy (12/7/09)

heres a photo of mine at full noise


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## mr_tyreman (12/7/09)

Big difference there... is that running LPG?

And a pilot light...very nice


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## chappo1970 (12/7/09)

cloudy said:


> View attachment 28811
> 
> heres a photo of mine at full noise




:beerbang: That's what I'm talkin about! Cheers Cloudy for sharin the love :icon_cheers: 


Chappo


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## cloudy (12/7/09)

mr_tyreman said:


> Big difference there... is that running LPG?
> 
> And a pilot light...very nice


yep, LPG with a 3.5kg/h reg. the only difference i can see with yours is the pilot fitting is open to air but i dont know if that would cause the orange flame. normally the orange flame comes when you are lacking oxygen.
Try blocking it off.


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## Gavo (12/7/09)

I have never seen one of these burners in the flesh, so to speak, But to me it looks like it needs a mix of air coming in with the gas somewhere. As it is, it looks like it is only getting a small amount of air mixed in with the gas. Most gas burners draw air in with just after the small gas jet, check out the gas burners on a gas BBQ or a ring burner to see what I mean. 
It kinda looks like an oxy acetylene torch with only the acetylene valve open,therefore getting no oxygen in the mix. 

Gavo.


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## cloudy (12/7/09)

how big is your reg Mr T


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## mr_tyreman (12/7/09)

2.0 kg/hr reg, its from my 2 ring burner...

i believe the pilot light circuit is seperate to the burner jets.


a mate suggested a air hole somewhere to introduce some oxygen ???


heres a pic of the jet....you can see where it draws in the oxygen....it also gives an idea ast o the size of the jets...wondering if visually they look larger than other peoples that run LPG?


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## cloudy (12/7/09)

in comparison it looks about twice the size of mine.


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## mr_tyreman (12/7/09)

yeah.....i figured that might be the case.


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## Frag_Dog (13/7/09)

On the weekend I did my first AG. Thanks for the guide it helped alot!

I used a mongolian 32 jet burner, and I don't get a yellow flame unless I turn it right down. Could it be something to do with gas from the bottle? Do you have another bottle to try with.

I have a simmilar 'Kettle' to you. I noticed when I was running it pretty hard, the stainless ring on the bottom started to glow red. Is this normal? I don't have an photos but I'm planning on doing another brew on the weekend and I'll try and get some photos. In order to have a reasonably steady slow boil I had to turn the burner right down to when it just started to produce a yellow flame, had a fair bit of soot on the bottom...


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## mr_tyreman (13/7/09)

Thats nice to hear that you had some luck with my guide... i guess its pretty normal for the steel to heat up, i havent got it red hot but , if thats what it takes to get it to a boil...then go for it 

I have a sample jet from a LPG burner coming down on Wednesday to compare with my burner, and if they are wrong, its going to be switched over for a LPG version.... G&G are the best bunch of blokes ever... couldn't get better service  no affiliation 

Fag.... get some photos up for us to check out...we love seeing beer porn h34r:


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## Jase (13/7/09)

quote name='Frag_Dog' date='Jul 13 2009, 10:32 AM' post='490549']
On the weekend I did my first AG. Thanks for the guide it helped alot!

I used a mongolian 32 jet burner, and I don't get a yellow flame unless I turn it right down. 

[/quote]

I fired up my Mongolian burner yesterday, and only opened the ball valve a 1/4 turn to keep the flame under my 18 gallon keg. There was a lot of blue but some yellow flame right under the keg. There was a bit of soot on the bottom of the keg. Wiped straight off though. So is this common for a low setting?



canon1ball said:


> I got one of the Mongolian burners on town gas; whilst I agree they are hard to tame with just a ball valve (I got your setup) on low, mine is powering away nicely without the sud affect. What distance do you have between the burner and the bottom of your keggle? I had to adust my distance a few times before I got it right.
> 
> c1b



c1b,

What distance is your burner away from your keg?

Cheers,
Jase


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## mr_tyreman (16/7/09)

Well guys, it turns out that they were in fact the wrong jets, we grabbed an LPG jet and it was noticeably smaller...so a new burner coming on saturday 

I will post pics when i get the new burner


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## cloudy (16/7/09)

nice work Mr T, i'm glad we finally got to the bottom of that.


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## Screwtop (16/7/09)

Why not watch a live stream of a brewday at Screwy's

http://www.ustream.tv/broadcaster/881910


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## gava (16/7/09)

that links not working for me


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## Maple (16/7/09)

gava said:


> that links not working for me


Try this one

Whatcha maken' screwy?


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## gava (16/7/09)

I was watching but was alittle too jumpy for me. plus I should be working


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## mr_tyreman (18/7/09)

Got a replacement burner today... props to G&G for looking after me 

heres the new burner in action, and the jet size...

Thanx so much for your help guys


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## Screwtop (18/7/09)

mr_tyreman said:


> Got a replacement burner today... props to G&G for looking after me
> 
> heres the new burner in action, and the jet size...
> 
> Thanx so much for your help guys




Glad it's all fixed MrT, now put some air in that bike tyre before you kill yourself :lol:

Screwy


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## mr_tyreman (18/7/09)

yeah i noticed that.....thanx for the heads up anyway


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## Cocko (18/7/09)

Screwtop said:


> Glad it's all fixed MrT, now put some air in that bike tyre before you kill yourself :lol:
> 
> Screwy



GOLD ST! :lol: 

Glad you got it sorted MrT.... 

Cant wait to hear how much time it knocks off your boil time


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## Gavo (18/7/09)

Ah now ain't that an improvement; makes my four ring look sick.

Cheers
Gavo.

Oh yea pump that bike tyre before it rolls off the rim.


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## mr_tyreman (19/7/09)

I Brewed today, and the burner was a pleasure to work with, it burn't off all the carbon marks, and got my wort to a boil in minutes.

got home and fixed that puncture too


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## Gout (19/7/09)

Well done Mr_T. that flame looks nice and makes me want to get one now. Did you find it gave yellow/soot on the low setting?

I should think with your now correct jetting you will boil faster and use less gas


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## QldKev (19/7/09)

gavo said:


> Ah now ain't that an improvement; makes my four ring look sick.
> 
> Cheers
> Gavo.
> ...



lol, and look at the pic from another angle the lawn mower wheel almost looks like the bike has trainer wheels.. LOL

QldKev


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