# Williamswarn Personal Brewery



## vykuza (8/4/11)

Hi folks.

I just spotted this one on the Beer and Brewer website : WilliamsWarn personal brewery. http://www.williamswarn.com/

I'm torn on this one - torn between the fact that the video makes it look like an amazing piece of kit. If it works at shown, then they've solved some problems with very small scale brewing (especially single vessel).

On the flip side, it's a $6000 automatic fermenter for kit brewing - which is a staggering amount of money for something that doesn't even produce wort. Flogging the kits and dried yeast for $49/batch is a bit rough too.


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## outbreak (8/4/11)

Granted it looks cool and they have their marketing down pat. For what it does it is over engineered and overpriced. Its for people who have too much money that want to brew some beer. Imagine what you could do with 6k on a brew rig and a keggerator. I would have a braumaster and a nice keg fridge for that and change!


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## outbreak (8/4/11)

I know a bit OT, but damn Kiwis are good at marketing!


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## yum beer (8/4/11)

spot on outbreak, buy yourself the shmick setup + spend a dirty week in the tropics with the beer hag and still have change to top up the grain bins.


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## yum beer (8/4/11)

anyway isnt making the beer half of the fun


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## Pollux (8/4/11)

It is a nice piece of kit, but not sure it's worth the price tag......Not too sure about their brew in 7days system too.......


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## sjcampbell (8/4/11)

But it appears to dispense from the pressure vessel, which is also the fermenter. So as soon as you finish the beer you have to wait seven days for another one - or am I missing something?

Cheers
Steve


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## vykuza (8/4/11)

[quote name='Steve's Pub' post='761661' date='Apr 8 2011, 01:49 PM']But it appears to dispense from the pressure vessel, which is also the fermenter. So as soon as you finish the beer you have to wait seven days for another one - or am I missing something?

Cheers
Steve[/quote]


Nope, you are correct.


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## Paul H (8/4/11)

Ah Sheep F$$kers.............


Cheers

Paul


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## Bribie G (8/4/11)

Where do you hang the bag?


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## Pollux (8/4/11)

[quote name='Steve's Pub' post='761661' date='Apr 8 2011, 01:49 PM']But it appears to dispense from the pressure vessel, which is also the fermenter. So as soon as you finish the beer you have to wait seven days for another one - or am I missing something?

Cheers
Steve[/quote]


Good point..........

Buy two.


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## Pennywise (8/4/11)

It goes inside, you put the can in it, then seal it up


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## Superoo (8/4/11)

Would hate to have just bought one of those and then discovered electric urn BIAB...

yes, good marketing...

and yes, most of the fun is in doing it yourself, otherwise you might as well just go and buy whatevers on special at the bottlo.


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## vykuza (8/4/11)

In it's defense, I'd say there's nothing stopping you from doing a big BIAB in it with an over the side element! Or pouring in your own wort from whatever production method you use.

Considering the size of it, and the fact that it can both heat to pasteurising temperatures, and refrigerate for cold beer, there's some good engineering gone in to it. My guess is that there are either coils for cooling and heating inside the fermenter, or it's jacketed.


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## ekul (8/4/11)

If i had $6000 to spend on brewing equipment i'd set up the same rig i have now, and then pay someone to make the beer for me


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## InCider (8/4/11)

Better tell Bandito! 

Wow! What a slick advert..... very impressed... but like Steve said... 7 days for a beer... not a snowflakes chance in hell.

And the cost...

Old fridge $50 or free
Fridgemate $100 (bought, then built by a sparky)
Willow cube fermentation vessel $22
Starsan $50
Funnel for kit at SuperCheap $2
Hose for kegging $5
4 kegs $160
Regulator $120
Keg Fittings & line $50
Beer kit (good, malt, yeast & hops) $25
C02 Bottle $300
Bronco tap $20

Total $904

Wish I had gone into marketing.... :super: 
*note all prices overestimated...


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## InCider (8/4/11)

Good value for the cleaning gear I thought!


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## bconnery (8/4/11)

> But it appears to dispense from the pressure vessel, which is also the fermenter. So as soon as you finish the beer you have to wait seven days for another one - or am I missing something?
> 
> Cheers
> Steve





> Nope, you are correct.



It takes an engineer to design something so clever and well made, and yet miss something so important and obvious...
(yes, I do have a number of friends who are engineers ...)


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## InCider (8/4/11)

bconnery said:


> It takes an engineer to design something so clever and well made, and yet miss something so important and obvious...
> (yes, I do have a number of friends who are engineers  ...)



It must have been designed for benders. Real wingdings, houlihans and general Animal House style merriment....enough to make you wait a week for your next beer... if indeed you can brew when hungover!


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## bradsbrew (8/4/11)

I'm still trying to get my head around fermenting under pressure, so my beer is carbonated at end of ferment. The yeast is going to love that.


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## InCider (8/4/11)

bradsbrew said:


> I'm still trying to get my head around fermenting under pressure, so my beer is carbonated at end of ferment. The yeast is going to love that.



Easy.. screw the cap on your jerry can a tight on day 4 and you're fine. :lol: 

Not joking, have done it on occasion, transferring cubes to fermenting fridge and forgetting to loosen the cap off.

And the yeast don't complain, so no HR issues there. Tell them you're getting a new smack pack and they shut the **** up.  

And it's carbed and... full as a state school!


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## manticle (8/4/11)

I once tightened the lid right up on a fermenting cube when I thought the brew had finished. I wanted to leave the brew on the yeast for a bit to condition and having had a few infections, thought I'd reduce any possibility of oxidation or infection.

2 days later the damn thing swelled up to about twice the size. Quite a bit of stretch those blue willow cubes.

I want a $6000 goop tranformer. Minimal effort is how I see beer should be.


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## going down a hill (8/4/11)

"and even invent new beers that have never been crafted before". WOW, it can do that! That's got to be worth $6000.

The only cool thing that it has going is the dials, that panel looked all sorts of 1970's.


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## Charst (9/4/11)

BribieG said:


> Where do you hang the bag?



love it!


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## Charst (9/4/11)

If I had a power of cash and had gone full circle on my beer philosophy (all the way back to who cares as long as it's cheap i can see the reason for it) but if I have a spare $6000 for a completely non hands on brewery i may as well just buy beer. 

who the f*ck is spending 6 k on a unit so automated they must hate the process of brewing and just want beer, id rather buy a slab rather than a brewery in that case.

the whole unit is a paradox in my drunken eyes.


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## RobH (9/4/11)

And forbid it that anyone should drink that horrible yeasty homebrew produced by any other method!


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## felten (9/4/11)

All other homebrew is also oxidised and takes too long to carbonate


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## roger mellie (9/4/11)

Marketing looks good - but who is going to pay 6K for this?

Expect to see these on TVShop at a buy one get one free soon.

And why is there a neoprene cover on the sediment removal flask?

RM


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## manticle (9/4/11)

Just been reading a bit further. Apparently you can use said apparatus with your own extract or AG wort but you need to produce it on other equipment. If they added the necessary equipment into it, would make more sense as an all in one automatic brewery for different methods of brewing (still damn expensive and taking all my fun away but a step better than goop transformer extrodinaire).


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## Online Brewing Supplies (9/4/11)

Well that just wasted 10 minutes of my life.
GB


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## Hatchy (9/4/11)

I wasted 20 due to the restrictive screen size of an iphone.

I'm wondering what a 400L one would cost.


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## Ian.wil (10/4/11)

Nick R said:


> Hi folks.
> 
> I just spotted this one on the Beer and Brewer website : WilliamsWarn personal brewery. http://www.williamswarn.com/
> 
> ...



check


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## InCider (10/4/11)

Or the Mashpilot by Beerbelly... $5990. It's true, it doesn't serve your beer, but kegging gear and a fridge will only be a few hundred bucks if you're canny. Also the cost per brew would be less than WW kits :blink: 







[color="330000"]*
*[/color]*[color="330000"]There are two models of brewery, the G-Series(all LPG fired) and E-Series (electric HLT gas fired Kettle). [/color] *


[color="330000"]They have the following features as standard -
" Stainless steel frame, with tipping trays for both mashtun and kettle for emptying and cleaning. The vessels are attached to the tipping frames, the frames themselves are removeable.
[/color]
[color="330000"]All stainless vessels with lids[/color]
[color="330000"]March 809 PL-HS magnetic drive pump[/color]
[color="330000"]Stainless steel industry standard cam-lock fittings[/color]
[color="330000"]Sightglass on the HLT[/color]
[color="330000"]Electric version HLT fitted with float switch to protect element from burnout.
[/color]
[color="330000"]Full bore stainless steel ball valves[/color]
[color="330000"]1/2" food grade silicon hosing[/color]
[color="330000"]30 plate Stainless steel plate heat exchanger/s[/color]
[color="330000"]Dial thermometers in HERMS coil outlet, heat exchanger outlet and Mashtun.[/color]
[color="330000"]Taste and odour water filter & housing[/color]
[color="330000"]Adjustable feet to suit un-even surfaces, or castors for ease of moving (choose your preference)[/color]
[color="330000"]Removeable copper HERMS coil in HLT[/color]
[color="330000"]Insulated mashtun fitted with our unique wort return dish, and perforated stainless false bottom[/color]
[color="330000"]Kettle fitted with pickup tube, & hopscreen, also whirlpool inlet and dial thermometer.[/color]
[color="330000"]High pressure burner/s and LPG regulator supplied (fits standard POL 9kg LPG bottle, not supplied)[/color]
[color="330000"]All breweries supplied with a stainless mash-paddle.[/color]
[color="330000"]Complete, ready to use brewing solution, simply connect to water, electricity and gas and start brewing. [/color]
[color="330000"]First brew included![/color]


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## hbwoody (12/4/11)

Sounds like you guys are still abit sore about losing the ashes, and not winning many rugby games,
I have one of these beasts as I brought one as a beta tester, couple of facts that I picked up on looking at your banter.
You can use anyones extract product in it if you know what you are doing.
The only reason it is launched with the three recommended beers is to make sure that any muppet can make premium beer in it, I had never made a beer in my life but tasted lots of homebrew over the years and my first brew was far superior than the other crap.
From what I gather, the quality of the ingredients will determine the quality of your beer.
The machine is not automatic, it just gives you full control over fermentation, carbonation and sediment removal, leaving you with clear, cold carbonated beer every time.
It is pretty easy to clean, from your last brew to having your next one up and running it takes about 1 1/2 hours.
You can bottle it off if you are a pig and have to brew every week, it is supplied with a stem so you can fill flagons from the bottom up, as you have control over the carbonation you can over carbonate it slightly before filling.
If using an ale yeast you can make beer chrystal clear, cold and perfectly carbonated in seven days or less, no shit.
The machine is built to be handed down to the next generation and weighs 86kg empty.
You can make any style of beer in it as I have had a hoppy beer from Ian Williams himself, it was awesome, that is what I will be trying next.
Can't remember if there was anything else that I have missed but I can assure you that if you know what you are doing you will get a lot of fun and pleasure from it and once you understand its capabilities will even forget about what it cost you.

Cheers


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## manticle (12/4/11)

hbwoody said:


> Sounds like you guys are still abit sore about losing the ashes, and not winning many rugby games,



Possibly more that many people here are opposed to the idea of not needing to know what you are doing to make good beer nor the aspersions cast at homebrewed beer as if it were all the same stuff regardless of who makes it or how. I'm talking about the marketting, not you by the way.

Good to hear from someone using it to give a different perspective although brewing once a week doesn't make someone a pig. Some people just enjoy brewing, some different types of beer get cellared etc etc and sometimes people just like to have a variety on hand.

6k is a lot in anyone's book and you can set up very decent all grain systems for much less including kegs, fridge, taps for dispensing.

I think if it enabled you to produce your own wort then it would be a great system but it's simply an expensive fermentation and dispensing device at the moment.


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## felten (12/4/11)

You can do exactly the same thing with a keg system, a conical fermenter, a couple of temp controlled (2nd hand) fridges, and all for a fraction of the price.

I'm sure it works fantastically, but it's not something I'd ever consider buying. Ever.


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## bradsbrew (12/4/11)

hbwoody said:


> You can use anyones extract product in it if you know what you are doing.
> The only reason it is launched with the three recommended beers is to make sure that any muppet can make premium beer in it, I had never made a beer in my life but tasted lots of homebrew over the years and my first brew was far superior than the other crap.
> From what I gather, the quality of the ingredients will determine the quality of your beer.



Ah so its for muppets that cant brew, havn't got the brains to learn how to build a keg set up and dont like the idea of having a variety of beers on tap. But it does give you more time chasing sheep.

I take it your not on the marketing team. :icon_cheers: Oh well this pigs off to watch his three fermenting beers and stare at my five taps for a bit.

Cheers


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## hbwoody (12/4/11)

felten said:


> You can do exactly the same thing with a keg system, a conical fermenter, a couple of temp controlled (2nd hand) fridges, and all for a fraction of the price.
> 
> I'm sure it works fantastically, but it's not something I'd ever consider buying. Ever.


You possibly could do it with a keg system but you wouldn't be able to clarify as well and remove the sediment fully, you would need a variable pressure relief system with gauges and would still need a co2 system to get the beer out, good luck


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## ekul (12/4/11)

I'm sure it is a great piece of kit, but as has been said a system could be built for far less. 

If a turnkey brewery was desired a braumeister can be had for $3500 (i think?) A 100L stainless steel conical fermenter can be had for $1000 a keg system can be had for $500 which still leaves some money for seven pounds of hops from hopsdirect ($150) and a mill of course ($200). Thats $5350, so i spose all thats is left to buy is 10-15 sacks of grain. Actually i forgot to include money to buy a fridge, you'll have to go around on council cleanup for this. h34r: 

So for $6000 you could buy the very best brew equipment money can buy, _brand new,_ PLUS have enough left over to buy enough ingredients to make 75 23litre batches of _all grain_ beer. Which is 187 cartons of beer which @ $40 a carton would cost $7500 in the shops.

So on top of costing the same, it actually comes with enough ingredients to pay for itself.

I think these may be the reasons that people aren't keen for it, or it could be the footy thing? 



hbwoody said:


> Sounds like you guys are still abit sore about losing the ashes, and not winning many rugby games,
> I have one of these beasts as I brought one as a beta tester, couple of facts that I picked up on looking at your banter.
> You can use anyones extract product in it if you know what you are doing.
> The only reason it is launched with the three recommended beers is to make sure that any muppet can make premium beer in it, I had never made a beer in my life but tasted lots of homebrew over the years and my first brew was far superior than the other crap.
> ...


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## hbwoody (12/4/11)

manticle said:


> Possibly more that many people here are opposed to the idea of not needing to know what you are doing to make good beer nor the aspersions cast at homebrewed beer as if it were all the same stuff regardless of who makes it or how. I'm talking about the marketting, not you by the way.
> 
> Good to hear from someone using it to give a different perspective although brewing once a week doesn't make someone a pig. Some people just enjoy brewing, some different types of beer get cellared etc etc and sometimes people just like to have a variety on hand.
> 
> ...



Brewing once a week doesn't make you a pig but drinking 5 1/2 doz per week might make you look like one, I thought you guys had a sense of humour?
This is all good fun and I can't wait until there are some being used in Aussie so I can see what they think of it.

Cheers


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## fcmcg (12/4/11)

hbwoody said:


> Brewing once a week doesn't make you a pig but drinking 5 1/2 doz per week might make you look like one, I thought you guys had a sense of humour?
> This is all good fun and I can't wait until there are some being used in Aussie so I can see what they think of it.
> 
> Cheers


No offence bloke ,
But i can't see anyone from this forum lashing out with six large to buy one of these systems...
If anyone from here had $6,000 to spend on a brew system , they'd probably want to buy a turnkey all grain system..
Most blokes on here ( myself included) are tight wads when it comes to buying brew gear...we usaully wait till someone gets out of the hobby , then pounce like rabbid dogs on the carcass...and try and get it for near on nothing lol
Then there is always evilbay....
Still, you blokes over there in the long white cloud have done K&K brewers proud !
Good luck...
Cheers
Ferg
ps...I am married to one of yours...you kiwi's are okay !


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## Pollux (12/4/11)

hbwoody said:


> Brewing once a week doesn't make you a pig but drinking 5 1/2 doz per week might make you look like one, I thought you guys had a sense of humour?
> This is all good fun and I can't wait until there are some being used in Aussie so I can see what they think of it.
> 
> Cheers



The issue isn't how much you can drink, but the fact that you have to wait a week from when you finish your last glass to when you can have the first of your next batch........Yes you could bottle off it, but for $6K I'd want to able to drink beer on tap whenever I wanted.....


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## RobH (12/4/11)

Pollux said:


> The issue isn't how much you can drink, but the fact that you have to wait a week from when you finish your last glass to when you can have the first of your next batch........Yes you could bottle off it, but for $6K I'd want to able to drink beer on tap whenever I wanted.....




There is a simple solution to that.... just buy two! (I mean what's another 6 grand eh?)


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## manticle (12/4/11)

hbwoody said:


> I thought you guys had a sense of humour?



I am a very serious man.


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## TmC (12/4/11)

manticle said:


> I am a very serious man.



Dont let his avatar undermine that statement.


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## manticle (12/4/11)

So hbwoody - what kinds of beers are you brewing in this gargantuan thing?


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## Silo Ted (12/4/11)

manticle said:


> So hbwoody - what kinds of beers are you brewing in this gargantuan thing?



KIT Beers ! :icon_vomit:


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## ekul (12/4/11)

If this machine doesn't do a full boil wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a fermenter and a kegging system? This would leave $5500 to buy malt extract and hops.

$4500 on malt extract would be 570kg malt extract if you bought it retail by the kilo, obviously $4500 of malt extract would be alot more.
$1000 on hops would be 25 kilos of hops

Every way i look at this i can't see why anyone would actually buy this thing.


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## Northside Novice (12/4/11)

ekul said:


> If this machine doesn't do a full boil wouldn't it be cheaper to buy a fermenter and a kegging system? This would leave $5500 to buy malt extract and hops.
> 
> $4500 on malt extract would be 570kg malt extract if you bought it retail by the kilo, obviously $4500 of malt extract would be alot more.
> $1000 on hops would be 25 kilos of hops
> ...




me either :blink: i know someone who could easily afford this contraption but he allready has a full spec bar with flooded cobras and stuff serving commercial grade mega swill vb, new + (stella - bit jealous :unsure: ) , my point being if you could afford this new home brew sytem , why would you bother ? does look preety cool though but bit exy !


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## InCider (12/4/11)

It's a great idea, well executed - just way too much coin for what you get. And you are really caught short if you want to age your beer.

Not all styles are suited to drinking 'young'. Some beers you want to leave for a couple of months before tapping them.

As for clearer bears - that's a marketing spin on the common problem - there's easy remedies for that for a few cents per brew investment - and crash chilling works a treat (not to mention keg aging)

A nice piece of kit, but really, I need a lot more flexibility with my brewing - how can you take your beer anywhere? 

I wonder if you can get a 5kg gas bottle with it?


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## bum (12/4/11)

hbwoody said:


> The only reason it is launched with the three recommended beers is to make sure that any muppet can make premium beer in it, I had never made a beer in my life but tasted lots of homebrew over the years and my first brew was far superior than the other crap.


So it works then?

I'm sure the retailer will be thrilled with your excellent street-teaming here.


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## Silo Ted (12/4/11)

hbwoody said:


> From what I gather, the quality of the ingredients will determine the quality of your beer.



That's right. You want a good Italian meal, you make spaghetti sauce from tomatoes, and dont grab for the jar of Dolmio. 

You want the best quality beer, you use grain and hops. 

Despite your great attempt at covering up some subtle marketing for your mates, it's a very well designed product that I am guessing will be purchased by absolutely no-one on this forum  Luckily we weren't directly marketed to, or people might _really_ start giving their valid opinions on the worth of this millionaire's trinket.


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## Blackapple (12/4/11)

hbwoody said:


> Sounds like you guys are still abit sore about losing the ashes, and not winning many rugby games,
> 
> CheersView attachment 45240


At least we can win a rugby world cup!

Think I'll spend my $6k on a ticket to the cup, front row seats 4 weeks accom, a kit beer unit ($80 odd, $14nz) brew some shitty beer and watch the wallabies towel up the all blacks! :icon_cheers: 

NZ brewing gear $6000
NZ losing cup Priceless


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## zephon (12/4/11)

hbwoody said:


> You possibly could do it with a keg system but you wouldn't be able to clarify as well and remove the sediment fully, you would need a variable pressure relief system with gauges and would still need a co2 system to get the beer out, good luck



There must be a lot of lucky people on this forum...


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## Amin (13/4/11)

simma said:


> There must be a lot of lucky people on this forum...


 :lol: :lol: :lol: 
If I hadn't just finished my beer I'd be cleaning the screen.


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## Zizzle (13/4/11)

This thing is pretty neat - looks like a great piece of engineering.

Agreed, not aimed at the tight-arses on this forum.

I wonder has anyone done a teardown? I'd be interested to see the insides. 

Something similar to this paired with the brewbot would be the ducks nuts.

I'd actually aim a little higher and put some auto-cleaning functionality in there.

I think I could do it for well under $6k if I didn't put a price on my time, but it wouldn't look as nice as this.


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## chadjaja (13/4/11)

Glorified bread maker, does that make me a baker?


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## drew9242 (13/4/11)

A bread maker is more flexible then this machine.


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## DiscoStu (13/4/11)

Looks like the only reasonably priced item on the entire site is the Nottingham yeast at NZD 4.20, about AUD 3.15

As for the $6k system, I think I stick to my built on the cheap AG system


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## pbrosnan (13/4/11)

hbwoody said:


> I thought you guys had a sense of humour?
> Cheers


Most of us do but recently the forum has become infested with newbies and they're always out to prove themselves.


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## Pennywise (13/4/11)

Drew9242 said:


> A bread maker is more flexible then this machine.



Because you don't have to wait a week to make another loaf?


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## davewaldo (13/4/11)

This seems to have become another thread where an expensive brewing solution is being bagged because it doesn't do everything everyone whats from a brew machine. This is not an all-grain brewing solution, so those that want to brew all grain this isn't for you (obvious I know)! Its very interesting how people assume that the way they think is the 'right' way and others just are wrong or haven't come round to the right way of thinking yet.

Now I am an all-grain brewer, and there is no way in hell I would ever buy one of these machines. But I think its a pretty amazing bit of kit and will meet some peoples' needs PERFECTLY!

Imagine this person:

- Loves the idea of making their own beers.
- Time and space poor, but not financially poor. 
- No interest in spending all the time thinking about all-grain, devising recipes and gaining all the knowledge. Yes there are people who are very willing to settle for extract/kit beers for the ease and convenience. 
- Does not want loads of brew gear around the place (fermenting drums etc). This goes with being space poor, people living in inner city terraces or apartments may not want a keg fridge.
- Willing to pay for a simple all in one solution that will look great in their house.

I think this could be quite a few people and I appreciate that although $6000 is a load of money, custom engineering and design on this small scale is bound to be expensive.

All in all I think it looks like a top machine for these people. 

No affiliation, I just thought some balance to this argument might be beneficial.... (its been fun reading it though )


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## pbrosnan (13/4/11)

davewaldo said:


> This seems to have become another thread where an expensive brewing solution is being bagged because it doesn't do everything everyone whats from a brew machine.


Yes, they seem to attract a certain personality type, the type that doesn't have the imagination or skill to build something themselves. They have plenty of time for idle criticism though.


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## discoloop (13/4/11)

If I was made of money I wouldn't hesitate to splash out on something like this. It would be a pretty darn nice 'show piece' for the home bar and I can't see why people are bringing in the AG vs extract debate. Beyond the promo crap this seems to me to be a fancy _fermenter_ and _dispensing system_, which allows you to brew whatever you like - kit, AG, FWK, whatever. 

I would LOVE a conical fermenter with built in temp control. Building in carbonation and dispensing is pretty darn clever, but yeah, the 7 day lag problem is a doozy. I guess I'll just have to wait for the 'deluxe' version that transfers the clear beer into a separate, pressurised chamber.


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## drew9242 (13/4/11)

Pennywise said:


> Because you don't have to wait a week to make another loaf?



Yes that, and with a bread maker you can choose to use the kit blends for bread or make it all from scratch.


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## stux (13/4/11)

It would make a perfect companion to a Braumeister tho 

I would rather a nice jacketed conical, a 50L braumeister and a kegking kegerator with a triple tap font

But that's just me


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## davewaldo (13/4/11)

Stux said:


> It would make a perfect companion to a Braumeister tho
> 
> I would rather a nice jacketed conical, a 50L braumeister and a kegking kegerator with a triple tap font
> 
> But that's just me



Yep, would have to agree.... I'll be 1/3 of the way there soon


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## Silo Ted (13/4/11)

discoloop said:


> the 7 day lag problem is a doozy.



Not only that, but it's bullshit if you think about it. What about all those beers than shine after some significant conditioning, running into months?


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## Cocko (13/4/11)

Did I miss something reading...

What gas does it use to serve? Do you still add a C02 bottle or is it perfectly set so your last glass is flat?


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## Bribie G (13/4/11)

Seeing as nobody here is actually going to buy one of these things then I'm wondering why the thread is now up to _n_ posts 
I vote we turn it into a Polenta vs Flaked Maize thread.

Personally I reckon Polenta is the grain that Jesus brewed with


----------



## Silo Ted (13/4/11)

Here, Cocko. 


_
Once the beer is cold and clarified, it is ready to consume. However if we opened the beer tap and started pouring beer, as we emptied the tank over time, the tank pressure would start to decrease and the beer would become flat. This is because as the headspace becomes larger and the beer volume smaller, the CO2 in the beer moves into the headspace and the beer starts to lose its fizz. So what we need to do is maintain the pressure in the headspace as the level decreases, with an external source of CO2. Then the natural CO2 in the beer stays in the beer and it remains fully carbonated right until the last drop. So we use Soda Stream CO2 cylinder that is placed in the machine, to help push the beer out the beer tap and maintain the same pressure in the tank from first drop till last drop._


----------



## bradsbrew (13/4/11)

Whats flaked maize??


----------



## Silo Ted (13/4/11)

BribieG said:


> Seeing as nobody here is actually going to buy one of these things then I'm wondering why the thread is now up to _n_ posts
> I vote we turn it into a Polenta vs Flaked Maize thread.
> 
> Personally I reckon Polenta is the grain that Jesus brewed with



You have gone Polenta MAD :wacko:


----------



## Bribie G (13/4/11)

I used some flaked maize in Cardiff in 1976 - can you still get it?


----------



## Silo Ted (13/4/11)

bradsbrew said:


> Whats flaked maize??


----------



## TmC (13/4/11)

Whats Polenta?


----------



## InCider (13/4/11)

pbrosnan said:


> Yes, they seem to attract a certain personality type, the type that doesn't have the imagination or skill to build something themselves. They have plenty of time for idle criticism though.



As do you my friend


----------



## fcmcg (13/4/11)

TmC said:


> Whats Polenta?


Silo and Bribie..your confusing the newbies with your talk of different adjuncts lol..cease and desist now lol


----------



## Bribie G (13/4/11)

Thread successfully derailed


----------



## Harry Volting (13/4/11)

C'mon Mark MHB...Go the Braumeister...you know you want to.
I do. 
(Just Sayin')


----------



## Silo Ted (13/4/11)

TOTALLY your fault, Mr Polenta. 
 
I'm off to ruin your Polenta thread with talk of the Williamswarn Brew Toy.


----------



## TmC (13/4/11)

fergthebrewer said:


> Silo and Bribie..your confusing the newbies with your talk of different adjuncts lol..cease and desist now lol



I was just finishing Brads Attempt, but yeah i still have no clue what polenta is, other than Bribie found some up near the lentils in Brisbane


----------



## hbwoody (13/4/11)

Blackapple said:


> At least we can win a rugby world cup!
> 
> Think I'll spend my $6k on a ticket to the cup, front row seats 4 weeks accom, a kit beer unit ($80 odd, $14nz) brew some shitty beer and watch the wallabies towel up the all blacks! :icon_cheers:
> 
> ...



Didn't we take the league world cup off you guys? shit that is like us losing rugby to Japan..........Priceless We even made it further than you in the cricket world cup, besides it is only two one in the world cup stakes, soon to be two all, te he he


----------



## Silo Ted (13/4/11)

TmC said:


> I was just finishing Brads Attempt, but yeah i still have no clue what polenta is, other than Bribie found some up near the lentils in Brisbane



Ok, it's just cornflour. Well not 'cornflour' that you buy in Oz (which is cornstarch) it's flour made from corn. Well, a bit coarser than flour, maybe cornmeal is a better term. 

Comes in a 1kg plastic wrapped brick, and looks disgusting.


----------



## bradsbrew (13/4/11)

hbwoody said:


> Didn't we take the league world cup off you guys? shit that is like us losing rugby to Japan..........Priceless We even made it further than you in the cricket world cup, besides it is only two one in the world cup stakes, soon to be two all, te he he



Didn't we beat you guys at netball or something


----------



## Silo Ted (13/4/11)

bradsbrew said:


> Didn't we beat you guys at netball or something



The kiwi's have Sonny Bill Williams in next years National netball team. 

They can have him !


----------



## bradsbrew (13/4/11)

$1au buys $1.34nz. ha we win. Although you would consider this a win because you've got the highest number


----------



## Bribie G (13/4/11)

TmC said:


> I was just finishing Brads Attempt, but yeah i still have no clue what polenta is, other than Bribie found some up near the lentils in Brisbane



I bought 3K of lentils as well - I consider that breakfast cereals are only fit for pigs and usually have a bowl of dahl for brekkie - high fibre and protein, low GI and if you eat it with a complementary starch such as a chappati or rice you don't fart all that much. :icon_cheers:

edit: and certainly far less than Brad and TidalPete at a brewday (actually Pete was uncharacteristically non farting last week for some reason) ^_^


----------



## hbwoody (13/4/11)

Cocko said:


> Did I miss something reading...
> 
> What gas does it use to serve? Do you still add a C02 bottle or is it perfectly set so your last glass is flat?




Correct it has a Sodastream bottle to dispense the beer.


----------



## bradsbrew (13/4/11)

BribieG said:


> if you eat it with a complementary starch such as a chappati or rice you don't fart all that much. :icon_cheers:



I reckon I could turn that theory on its head Bribie


----------



## Bribie G (13/4/11)

You did


----------



## Silo Ted (13/4/11)

^^^ damn animal


----------



## hbwoody (13/4/11)

bradsbrew said:


> Didn't we beat you guys at netball or something




sorry, we got the gold in the commonwealth games for that as well


----------



## Silo Ted (13/4/11)

hbwoody said:


> sorry, we got the gold in the commonwealth games for that as well



It's all about the big picture. 

Number of Gold Medals won in in the Summer Olympics from 1896 to 2010: 

Australia: 131

New Zealand: 36


You were saying, Kit-Man ? 
:lol:


----------



## InCider (13/4/11)

hbwoody said:


> sorry, we got the gold in the commonwealth games for that as well



And it was enough to prop up the Reserve Bank of New Zealand during the GFC. :lol:


----------



## Silo Ted (13/4/11)

I heard that their military spending suffered greatly during the GFC.


----------



## Bribie G (13/4/11)

Anyway I'm off to the surfside to chunder in the old Pacific Sea


----------



## winkle (13/4/11)

BribieG said:


> Anyway I'm off to the surfside to chunder in the old Pacific Sea



Damn it, you're giving those Kiwi fellas that partially digested dahl for free (once it eventually gets there).


----------



## Hatchy (13/4/11)

bradsbrew said:


> Didn't we beat you guys at netball or something



I thought rugby was the NZ name for netball. Do we have a rugby team? What is rugby?


----------



## TmC (13/4/11)

Silo Ted said:


> I heard that their military spending suffered greatly during the GFC.



Dont laugh, i saw the movie "Black Sheep"


----------



## ekul (13/4/11)

I was at the local feedstore today and they had oats there. I have been contemplating using oats for a little while after my success with rice. 

I was thinking of just using uncle toby's but this feedstore stuff looks like it could be the go, it looks like a grain which makes me feel comfortable with ti.

Also, they had cheap corn there as well, would this work with some boiling (they can crush it)?

I actually do want to know the answers too, i was going to start a new thread but i thought i may as well chuck it in here.


----------



## dcx3 (13/4/11)

Its a game for fatnecks that are slow and have the grace of a pregnant cow...AKA the unconverted.
Soon Aussie rules will take over your pathetic little islands and the likes of SBW will join all the other Kiwis in oz, on the rock and roll.


----------



## bum (13/4/11)

How embarrassing! Not only are NZ losing in most sports but they're also getting destroyed in boring, parochial pissing contests.


----------



## Silo Ted (13/4/11)

ekul said:


> I was at the local feedstore today and they had oats there. I have been contemplating using oats for a little while after my success with rice.



I bought a 750g pack of woolworths brand quick oats today for 99 cents, to go in an upcoming stout. Can't argue with that price.


----------



## InCider (13/4/11)




----------



## Blackapple (13/4/11)

hbwoody said:


> Didn't we take the league world cup off you guys? shit that is like us losing rugby to Japan..........Priceless We even made it further than you in the cricket world cup, besides it is only two one in the world cup stakes, soon to be two all, te he he


Either way I'll still have a great time with my extra $6k


----------



## TmC (13/4/11)

I would rather get one of these and 4k of grain 

Sorry to whoever i stole that link off, i couldn't quote you


----------



## pbrosnan (13/4/11)

InCider said:


> As do you my friend


You've misunderstood the meaning of a crucial word.


----------



## proudscum (13/4/11)

TmC said:


> Whats Polenta?




A scolding hot bitch when you need to cook a lot of it on the stove top for 20 minutes of non stop stirring,before setting it in a tray....goes well with duck cooked 2 ways tho.


----------



## TmC (13/4/11)

I glanced over that sentence and saw bitch and cook and looked for a women in that picture.... h34r:


----------



## proudscum (13/4/11)

bradsbrew said:


> $1au buys $1.34nz. ha we win. Although you would consider this a win because you've got the highest number




Lucky the beer is better and cheaper across the ditch,cant wait to check out a few bottle shops next Wednesday night.


----------



## Bribie G (13/4/11)

InCider said:


>



But you could fit a 44 gallon drum in the boot

edit: particularly useful for serial killers


----------



## Zizzle (14/4/11)

Sad to see this thread take this direction. But if you can't beat 'em join 'em.

Get behind the NZ invasion campaign I say:



If they were another state, the Tasmanians would be happy... the heat would be off them


----------



## InCider (14/4/11)

BribieG said:


> But you could fit a 44 gallon drum in the boot
> 
> edit: particularly useful for serial killers



And mega batch portable BIAB systems!


----------



## ekul (26/4/11)

I saw this advertised in zoo magazine yesterday, but the price was $4200.


----------



## InCider (26/4/11)

ekul said:


> I saw this advertised in zoo magazine yesterday, but the price was $4200.



You really do read the articles Ekul!  

It's a big discount - harder to sell than valves for the 5l mini kegs, but there will always be some market there...


----------



## Elz (5/5/16)

Keep on keeping on. 36 brews in and has not missed a beat! Brewing great beer with the robobrew. Cooling wort to44oC and then allowing WW to chill to 22. Dumping yeast and fermenting for 5 days. Beer ready at day 7 even with Og at 1071. Beautiful, best money spent.
LOL
Cheers
Elz
PS pm me for unbiased advice re the WW


----------



## Elz (5/5/16)

Plus+ once beer is brewed pouring a nice tight head. And keeping hop flavour,especially with dry hopping for around a week.


----------



## SBOB (5/5/16)

Elz said:


> Plus+ once beer is brewed pouring a nice tight head. And keeping hop flavour,especially with dry hopping for around a week.


arent these all things which are perfectly achievable on systems less than $4k?


----------



## Bribie G (5/5/16)

People happily pay for cars such as Lexus or BMW that cost many times more than a Hyundai i20 and do exactly the same job of getting you from A to B in comfort. Had a ride as a passenger, in a BMW upper end model not too long ago and I found the ride harsh and unpleasant, couldn't see $70 grand there, but that doesn't mean that everyone should drive Hyundais or Kias.


----------



## Yob (5/5/16)

And the people who drive those cars tend to be just as pretentious as WW owners as well..


----------



## Bribie G (5/5/16)

Yeah bloody Kia drivers.


----------



## wobbly (5/5/16)

Yob said:


> And the people who drive those cars tend to be just as pretentious as WW owners as well..


As you wrote that sentence, were you aware of how _pretentious _it sounds

Wobbly


----------



## Yob (5/5/16)

Blissfully unaware


----------



## Elz (5/5/16)

Chungs along like a vw bettle, utilitarian by natute. Quality in my mind, which is inherent in the build. Doubters will continue their argument, however proof is in the pudding. Excellent beer.


----------



## Bribie G (5/5/16)

Misquote.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. B)


----------



## Elz (5/5/16)

Semantics


----------



## Camo6 (5/5/16)

Yob said:


> Blissfully unaware


Bwahaha! I liked the nonchalance of your post. I _loved_ the pretentiousness of your own 'like'. Well played old chap.


----------



## Bribie G (5/5/16)

I didn't know you could like your own posts. This opens up a whole new world.


----------



## Elz (5/5/16)

I don't own a car, but if I did I would aspire to aTesla rather then a Kia (kinda like a future not based on old technology)


----------



## Moad (5/5/16)

edit: not really in good spirit, my apologies...


----------



## rude (5/5/16)

TmC said:


> Whats Polenta?


I'snt that the bit that comes out at birth with ya from mum 

Bloody hell I wouldn't brew with that


----------



## Elz (5/5/16)

Because you drag the argument to the gutter doesn't make it right. Argue on the merits (or not)
Cheers 
Elz


----------



## GrumpyPaul (5/5/16)

Elz said:


> Keep on keeping on. 36 brews in and has not missed a beat! Brewing great beer with the robobrew. Cooling wort to44oC and then allowing WW to chill to 22. Dumping yeast and fermenting for 5 days. Beer ready at day 7 even with Og at 1071. Beautiful, best money spent.
> LOL
> Cheers
> Elz
> PS pm me for unbiased advice re the WW


Five years ago we all thought WWWW (World War WilliamsWarn) was over and world peace had been restored.

Why on earth would you open fire again.

Even the Germans know when they're beat


----------



## rude (5/5/16)

Sorry mate just having a bit of fun

To tell you the truth Im not in the argument

Local HBS Twoc has one & have tried one of his Munich Dunkles 2 weeks old very very nice


----------



## Elz (5/5/16)

Bites tounge.... ? Germans make the braumeister, which kinda works for some on this forum. Plus there is no harm in highlighting an engineering advantage to the homebrewer. Albiet to those with views stuck in the past decade!!! Lift our eyes to the hills
Cheers 
Elz


----------



## barls (5/5/16)

ok far enough off topic. does anyone have anything to add on the ww.


----------



## Blind Dog (5/5/16)

If it works for you, then fair enough, but it's still $6k+ to ferment one extract beer at a time. For me, it would replace a $25 cube. Don't think I'll ever be convinced, but kinda like your chutzpah in continuing to spruik it every once in a while


----------



## Elz (5/5/16)

No news is good news?? Kicks the can down the road.


----------



## Elz (5/5/16)

Kinda outlined that the robobrew is a good adjunct to the WW. (Ps thats all grain)


----------



## Camo6 (5/5/16)

barls said:


> ok far enough off topic. does anyone have anything to add on the ww.


I reckon Elz does. By the look of it Williams Warn is now adding 25% extra smug in every can.


----------



## Elz (5/5/16)

Nothing better than arguing what you believe in: the greens, good beer, the environment, hoppy beer, anti big business, craft beer, small minded people, progress..
Home brew
Cheers Elz


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (5/5/16)

So has anyone done some AG brews in them. ?


----------



## Yob (5/5/16)

Wobbly warn uses his BM then.. Cough.. Ferments in it... Don't think I've read anyone actually 'producing' wort in them though


----------



## Elz (5/5/16)

Would you fermet in a BM (only a dick head would). can you produce wort in a WW, no. Can yo fermet and pour draft beer from a WW, yes.
WW is not a wort producing machine, never designed for this purpose 
Cheers
Elz


----------



## Beersuit (5/5/16)

I know a bloke who has one. Tips FWK's in it pitches ferments and despenses. It works for him but I don't think his brain could handle racking into a keg, gassing and despensing.


----------



## Elz (5/5/16)

FWK's = all grain, enough said. (ps, being an ex hotel/pub manager its not brain surgery to figure out beer pressure)


----------



## Beersuit (5/5/16)

Pubs / hotels get their beers cold crashed, filtered bright, kegged and gassed. Setting serving pressures isn't rocket appliances.


----------



## Elz (5/5/16)

And your argument against the WW is?


----------



## Beersuit (5/5/16)

I'm not arguing I'm just saying any clown can tap a keg. Gees mate don't go and see a quack she may medicate you for high blood pressure or something.


----------



## spog (5/5/16)

Beersuit said:


> Pubs / hotels get their beers cold crashed, filtered bright, kegged and gassed. Setting serving pressures isn't rocket appliances.


Umm before or after the kegs have been bounced all over the place by a forklift,then bunged on the back of an unrefridgerated truck for a long long road trip ?
Rockets don't have appliances other wise the toast would float away .


----------



## Elz (5/5/16)

Cool calm and collected here. Up against it from the majority on this site. All for innovation in the Homebrew field,whatever the endeavour.sick of neigh sayers,
Cheers Elz


----------



## Beersuit (5/5/16)

https://youtu.be/wAIe9QtRKlc


----------



## Elz (5/5/16)

As an assistant manager at the Whitehorse hotel and blackburn hotel (and catering manager at various venues) handling beer required a certain level of knowledge. Cleanliness and rotation was key. FIFO plus freshness, tap and sell. use within a couple of weeks, fresh is best. Still holds true in my opinion.
Cheers 
Elz


----------



## rude (5/5/16)

Elz said:


> Bites tounge.... ? Germans make the braumeister, which kinda works for some on this forum. Plus there is no harm in highlighting an engineering advantage to the homebrewer. Albiet to those with views stuck in the past decade!!! Lift our eyes to the hills
> Cheers
> Elz


Lots of crew coping the Brau

Lots of crew coping the WW pressure fermenting

Both a lot cheaper options

Dont think we are against the inguinity ITS just the cost the cost the cost

Do you get it is the cost


----------



## manticle (5/5/16)

Can we please keep the discussion civil and relevant?

Will need to start pruning if people can't be respectful. Don't want a ww, don't buy one.


----------



## Blind Dog (5/5/16)

Elz said:


> Kinda outlined that the robobrew is a good adjunct to the WW. (Ps thats all grain)


Not sure if that was a response to my comment or not. if so, I wasn't knocking the WW per se, just saying that it's designed as a fermentor/dispenser and from their own advertising aimed squarely at extract brewing. I'm perfectly well aware that the robobrew is all grain. In my personal circumstances, the WW could only ever be a fermentor as I'd always want at least 4 beers on tap. So it would replace a $25 fermentor. Your money, your choice, and I'm honestly happy you're happy with it. As you're seemingly pushing its benefits, I'm merely pointing out that I don't see any for me.

Hope that clears that up. Hope you continue to enjoy your WW for many years to come.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL (6/5/16)

Elz said:


> I don't own a car, but if I did I would aspire to aTesla rather then a Kia (kinda like a future not based on old technology)


For the record electric motors are older technology than reciprocating fossil fuel engines.

Carry on.


----------



## Mozz (6/5/16)

My only interest in this is from a business perspective. Saw the video on the WW a few years ago and was just thinking the other day those blokes probably went broke putting their life savings into that concept. Shows what the F do I know.


----------



## Siborg (6/5/16)

Wow, this is still going.
I think the main thing here is the cost. Even if I had the $7k, I wouldn't buy one of these. They're not _that_ innovative or useful. Spending that much money to save a couple of days fermenting and drink it sooner....no thanks. I'd rather drop my fictional $7k on a couple of SS fermenters, brew more and have more variety on tap. The money for a pressurised fermenter just isn't worth it IMO. If I had millions to play with and I didn't care about blowing my money on expensive toys....I might buy one (along with expensive guitars, cars and electronics).

Elz, I am curious as to your choice of wort making equipment. You clearly have spared no expense in the fermentation side of things for what is arguably a minimal gain, yet you've gone for the cheapest automated brewery on the market (as far as I know). Not knocking the robobrew at all - I have one and it makes great wort. But a grainfather or a brau would make the job so much easier and, some may argue, may make slightly better wort (emphasis: _may_). If small gains in efficiency and quality at high financial costs matter to you, then a top of the line braumeister should have been your obvious choice.


----------



## Bribie G (6/5/16)

Elz said:


> I don't own a car, but if I did I would aspire to aTesla rather then a Kia (kinda like a future not based on old technology)


A Tesla runs mostly on coal, where do you think most electricity still comes from? A thousand Teslas in Melbourne get home, get plugged in, and they shovel more brown coal into the furnaces in the Latrobe Valley. You've simply transferred the pollution from Collins Street to the poor bogans who have to live at Morwell.

And before anyone says you can specify renewable energy, that's a scam like so called free range eggs and how most UK ales claim to be made from Maris Otter.
Of course you can always cover your roof with panels and get a Tesla Power Wall but that will cost you the same as a Kia anyway.

I'm waiting for hoverboards to come in, myself.


----------



## roger mellie (6/5/16)

WTF!

Is this penis envy war debate still going - I thought we won yonks ago.

C'mon Straya - the real reason you hate the WW sooooo much is because they is from Nuuu Zuuuulund. Innit.

RM


----------



## Yob (6/5/16)

roger mellie said:


> C'mon Straya - the real reason you hate the WW sooooo much is because they is from Nuuu Zuuuulund. Innit.






We've got your number right here Jimmy


----------



## roger mellie (6/5/16)

So very apt that your team is wearing yellow.

RM


----------



## GrumpyPaul (6/5/16)

and yours a colour that resembles pooh


----------



## barls (6/5/16)

final warning guys that is far enough off topic.
back on topic. next comment i see about expensive cars and or their owners i will award some points for trolling.


----------



## welly2 (6/5/16)

I've just been watching an instructional video about the Williams Warn at . I must say, it does look the part. It's very bling and I bet you get cracking beer out of it. However, price aside, I don't think it would be for me even if I could afford to throw $4-5k at it. It doesn't seem to resemble brewing/fermentation that I recognise. I'm sure it's not as tricky or as involved as the video suggests but it does seem both tricky and involved. I'm curious as to why you'd want to keg if this thing delivers beer as the video shows with a built in kegerator? I guess it's just another option for how you serve your beer. 

Interesting tech/gadget product, far far far out of my budget, can't imagine it would give me better beer than I'm making at the moment. Good on ya to those who have one and enjoy it.


----------



## Yob (6/5/16)

welly2 said:


> I don't think it would be for me even if I could afford to throw $4-5k at it.


Harvey Norman, AUD $7499


----------



## roger mellie (6/5/16)

Wow - a non-trolling post.

Welly, its about as simple as a fermenter with a temperature controller gets. 

Step 1 - Make Wort - tip into WW
Step 2 - Pitch Yeast
Step 3 - Set Temperature Control
Step 4 - Wait

Now to the options

Step 5 - Clarify as shown in video/Drink from kegerator...

or (as I now do)

Step 5 - Crash Cool to 1 Deg C
Step 6 - Wait
Step 7 - Transfer to a keg via a filter

The main reason for kegging is to be able to make more beer.

Simple.

RM


----------



## Blind Dog (6/5/16)

welly2 said:


> I've just been watching an instructional video about the Williams Warn at . I must say, it does look the part. It's very bling and I bet you get cracking beer out of it. However, price aside, I don't think it would be for me even if I could afford to throw $4-5k at it. It doesn't seem to resemble brewing/fermentation that I recognise. I'm sure it's not as tricky or as involved as the video suggests but it does seem both tricky and involved. I'm curious as to why you'd want to keg if this thing delivers beer as the video shows with a built in kegerator? I guess it's just another option for how you serve your beer.
> 
> Interesting tech/gadget product, far far far out of my budget, can't imagine it would give me better beer than I'm making at the moment. Good on ya to those who have one and enjoy it.



The beer wont necessarily be better. Same old adage of shit in, shit out will still hold true, but if you can brew a decent beer using normal techniques, there are potential benefits (pressurised fermentation, zero exposure to air from transfer of wort to drinking the beer, natural carbonation etc.). For Elz, Wobby and RM and no doubt others, those benefits are worth the $6k or so the WW costs. 

This is interesting (at least I think it is): http://www.terifahrendorf.com/Closed-Pressurized-Fermenatation.pdf


----------



## bradsbrew (6/5/16)

I would like to see the results of a system wars type of comp. Same wort, same yeast, same temp (not sure how temp is controlled on the WW). In the spirit of the brew rig system wars you could have a tradition plastic fermenter, Flat bottom SS fermenter, SS Conical and a WW. All pitched at the same time and served by draught at a set time period. Judged by blind tasting by BJCP certified.


----------



## Blind Dog (6/5/16)

roger mellie said:


> Wow - a non-trolling post.
> 
> Welly, its about as simple as a fermenter with a temperature controller gets.
> 
> ...


So for you it's really just a pressurized fermentation chamber?

edit: (just reread that - apologies if it reads as a snide comments; its not meant as such)


----------



## Yob (6/5/16)

roger mellie said:


> Wow - a non-trolling post.


2

RM.. cmon mate, its more than that.. you can do 'advanced recipes'

http://www.williamswarn.com/Additional-Downloads#.VywHcU1PpaQ

sadly, though perhaps not surprisingly, BJCP Guidelines not updated since 2008


----------



## Blind Dog (6/5/16)

bradsbrew said:


> I would like to see the results of a system wars type of comp. Same wort, same yeast, same temp (not sure how temp is controlled on the WW). In the spirit of the brew rig system wars you could have a tradition plastic fermenter, Flat bottom SS fermenter, SS Conical and a WW. All pitched at the same time and served by draught at a set time period. Judged by Blind Dog tasting


----------



## roger mellie (6/5/16)

Yob said:


> Harvey Norman, AUD $7499





Blind Dog said:


> So for you it's really just a pressurized fermentation chamber?
> 
> edit: (just reread that - apologies if it reads as a snide comments; its not meant as such)


Spot on Blind Dog - for me its all it is

I use a 20L Braumeister to make my Wort - this just ferments and carbonates.

So - yeah, relatively expensive for what it is.

RM


----------



## wobbly (6/5/16)

As per RM above 

I also use a 20lt Brau and often counter pressure bottle about half of each brew in 560ml Little Creatures bottles and that way I have a selection of sediment free beers to consume either from the machine or from a bottle.

Same as keging without the need for another fridge for kegs etc.and easy to take to a restaurant/friends place etc.

Not sure of the relevance of the BJCP guidelines reference 

It floats my boat as I have said many times before 

Wobbly


----------



## sponge (6/5/16)

A BM and WW for making beer? Now that's some serious HB bling.

If you need to dispose of some cash monies, I'll PM you my bank deets.


PS. The above is tongue-in-cheek. However a brewer decides to brew is their prerogative. I can't wait to upgrade from my Barina..


----------



## Brownsworthy (6/5/16)

Wow I've been completely ignorant of the WW simply because it is out of my price range and I'm a bit of a tinkerer I thought it produced beer from grain from start to finish. 

I think now I know it is essentially a fermenter/dispenser it is definitely overpriced at $7499.

My current setup for fermenting/dispensing is a keg king kegerator, corny kegs, SS brewtech 14gal fermenter, commercial fridge with temp control that all set me back about $2000 including lines disconnects etc.

I can see how the WW may be good for some but I feel they have priced themselves out of the market for the majority of home brewers. Maybe a budget model is something that may entice more to this type of brewing. 

Cheers


----------



## roger mellie (6/5/16)

Brownsworthy said:


> Wow I've been completely ignorant of the WW simply because it is out of my price range and I'm a bit of a tinkerer I thought it produced beer from grain from start to finish.
> 
> I think now I know it is essentially a fermenter/dispenser it is definitely overpriced at $7499.
> 
> ...



Its evolution in the name of simplicity Brownsworthy.

I had all of the following at some point in my ongoing brewing obsession:

Bucket o death
Esky/Chilly Bun with a Beerbelly FB.
Hopsocks galore
50L 2V/3V Keggle setup
100L Morebeer Tippydump system
Immersion Chillers
Counter Flow Convolutos chillers
Sabco Chillwizard
Plastic Fermenters
Stainless Conicals
March Pumps
Peristaltic Pumps
Cam lock fittings
Tri Clamp fittings
Silicon Hoses
Temperature Controllers galore.
SSR Controllers/RIMS heaters
3 Brewing fridges
A Shitload of Swagelock fittings
A Blichmann Hop Rocket

I could go on

Now I have a mill, a 20L BM, a WW, about 12 Kegs and one Keg Fridge (and a filter) (I did buy a hop spider a while ago).I could do away with the mill but I like crunching my grain at 100 rpm not 500 rpm as my local brew shop does.

They say a fool and his money are soon parted, well that may be true, but in this case I can assure you - I would not trade any of the above systems nor the process of learning about them from zero to what I have now - have loved the journey and in the main, most of the shit I brought - has been recycled back into the brewing community.

The end

RM


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (6/5/16)

roger mellie said:


> C'mon Straya - the real reason you hate the WW sooooo much is because they is from Nuuu Zuuuulund. Innit.
> 
> RM


Of course it had nothing to do with the inventor telling us all that we are are fuckwitts and we dont know anything about brewing beer


Damage done RM... Damage done


----------



## Brownsworthy (6/5/16)

Don't get me wrong Roger I certainly appreciate the simplicity of the process and the thought that has gone into such a system it's just the cost.

I could certainly see myself, if I had money to burn, buying one of these as I love toys and learning about all aspects of whatever I'm into.

Like I said maybe a budget model may be a way to get more people to give WW a go.

I was going to purchase a 50l BM though went with putting together a 3v herms and after a couple of months of sorting out plumbing, chasing leaks and dialing everything in I should put my first brew down on it next weekend.

If I had have gone with the BM I wouldn't have so many empty kegs laying about and could have been brewing straight away and not had so many headaches along the way. I will definitely be purchasing a BM in the future. 

Cheers


----------



## Elz (6/5/16)

Probably a bad analogy but for me the WW is like a top of the range oven. The RB from cooking terms is very hands on/tactile machine. Between the two I have found my ideal balance; other brewers have found their preferred style (or are still travelling down that road).

All up I have spent $6500 on a WW, $700 on the RB ( pump etc) and around another $500 to $700 on miscellaneous products (bottles, mill, shelves, books ...). A lot on money, yes. But no more to spend


----------



## Dan Pratt (6/5/16)

What a debate....lol.

Anyway I put the challenge to the WW owners....make your beer for your state comp, enter them and then when they are judged and make nationals.... then you might be able to justify the costly beer making bling.

Until then they will always be overpriced, so prove you can make good beer.


----------



## Bribie G (6/5/16)

Year before last at the NSW State competition the winner of the AIPA and APA styles were partials made in a Big W $20 stockpot.


----------



## dannymars (6/5/16)

edit: redacted...

I realise it's an easy target.

Happy brewing!


----------



## sp0rk (6/5/16)

Are we back on the WW bashing again?
While I'd never own one myself (I like building and tinkering too much, and I'm a tightarse) I think they have a valid place in the market
As much of a *insert derogatory name* old Ian Williams is, he's got a fine product there


----------



## Elz (6/5/16)

Some would argue that spending $899 on a SS conical is too excessive. You could purchase multiple plactic ones for less. Eye of the beholder.
Cheers
Elz


----------



## welly2 (6/5/16)

Elz said:


> Some would argue that spending $899 on a SS conical is too excessive. You could purchase multiple plactic ones for less. Eye of the beholder.
> Cheers
> Elz


To be fair, a conical fermenter will do something that a plastic fermenter won't, mainly the ability to dump trub/yeast.


----------



## sp0rk (6/5/16)

welly2 said:


> To be fair, a conical fermenter will do something that a plastic fermenter won't, mainly the ability to dump trub/yeast.


I think Elz meant SS conicals vs HDPE conicals
Though I could be wrong


----------



## wobbly (6/5/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Of course it had nothing to do with the inventor telling us all that we are are fuckwitts and we dont know anything about brewing beer That wasn't what was said and you know it!!!
> 
> 
> Damage done RM... Damage done


Just to keep the record straight on what was said and what wasn't you should have another read of the discussion details from Ian Williams I posted in another topic many months ago which can be read here at post number 188

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/76912-williamswarn-personal-brewery/page-10

There are also interesting support for the comments made in a few of the posts that followed by brewers such as Manticle and Parks etc.

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## wobbly (6/5/16)

Pratty1 said:


> What a debate....lol.
> 
> Anyway I put the challenge to the WW owners....make your beer for your state comp, enter them and then when they are judged and make nationals.... then you might be able to justify the costly beer making bling.
> 
> Until then they will always be overpriced, so prove you can make good beer.


Isn't first place in a competition against 45 of the worlds largest breweries satisfaction/proof enough for you. The following is quoted from the topic referenced in post 190 above

Quote
_"A guy made his 3rd batch of beer in one of our breweries and beat 45 of the worlds biggest breweries in a beer comp. He was the only home brewer to have ever done that in the history of brewing. The only other guy to have done that did it this year with one of our Gen2 machines."_

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## sp0rk (6/5/16)

wobbly said:


> Just to keep the record straight on what was said and what wasn't you should have another read of the discussion details from Ian Williams I posted in another topic many months ago which can be read here at post number 188
> 
> http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/76912-williamswarn-personal-brewery/page-10
> 
> ...


It WAS very heavily implied in what he was saying, though


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (6/5/16)

wobbly said:


> Just to keep the record straight on what was said and what wasn't you should have another read of the discussion details from Ian Williams I posted in another topic many months ago which can be read here at post number 188
> 
> http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/76912-williamswarn-personal-brewery/page-10
> 
> ...


_Feel free to post this if you want. You will fire them up no end. Would be fun to see the reactions. But don't worry about it. They are just internet trolls. Not my market. My market are smarter men than these guys. I look forward to you making great wort in the BM and great beer with our unit. You can't go wrong_
_Cheers_
_Ian_



Yeah...your right...I miss qouted him....my bad


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (6/5/16)

wobbly said:


> Isn't first place in a competition against 45 of the worlds largest breweries satisfaction/proof enough for you. The following is quoted from the topic referenced in post 190 above



Just because they are large does not automatically mean they make good beer


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## wobbly (6/5/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Just because they are large does not automatically mean they make good beer


 Not implied but what is a fact is that the beer in question was tasted/judged by 20 international judges and judged to be better than the other 40 plus international entries and I guess that "trumps" State and National comps

Couldn't see any WW entries in the results of the RASV 2015 Beer Judging results (see details here http://www.rasv.com.au/Events/AIBA_Home/AIBA_Results/AIBA_Past-Results/AIBA_2015_ResultsCatalogue) but also there weren't a lot of "home brewers" either 

Not sure what my last point makes other than it's not easy to win Gold at International Competition 

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## roger mellie (6/5/16)

I have to agree with you Stuey.

He is clearly full of shit - I mean calling the members of this forum trolls - ffs thats just not right.

RM


----------



## barls (6/5/16)

wobbly said:


> Not implied but what is a fact is that the beer in question was tasted/judged by 20 international judges and judged to be better than the other 40 plus international entries and I guess that "trumps" State and National comps
> 
> Couldn't see any WW entries in the results of the RASV 2015 Beer Judging results (see details here http://www.rasv.com.au/Events/AIBA_Home/AIBA_Results/AIBA_Past-Results/AIBA_2015_ResultsCatalogue) but also there weren't a lot of "home brewers" either
> 
> ...


actually its quite easy to win golds at some competitions. you pay a certain amount of entry and you get a gold medal.


----------



## goomboogo (6/5/16)

Elz said:


> Probably a bad analogy but for me the WW is like a top of the range oven. The RB from cooking terms is very hands on/tactile machine. Between the two I have found my ideal balance; other brewers have found their preferred style (or are still travelling down that road).
> 
> All up I have spent $6500 on a WW, $700 on the RB ( pump etc) and around another $500 to $700 on miscellaneous products (bottles, mill, shelves, books ...). A lot on money, yes. But no more to spend


It is a lot of money but it's not a lot when compared to the amount of money involved in carrying out some hobbies. Some people will tell you that you're crazy to drop 8 grand on brewing gear and then go and spend $40 000 restoring an old car. A Williamswarn owner could have gone a less expensive route but they chose not to as it was their choice to make.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (6/5/16)

wobbly said:


> Not implied but what is a fact is that the beer in question was tasted/judged by 20 international judges and judged to be better than the other 40 plus international entries and I guess that "trumps" State and National comps
> 
> Couldn't see any WW entries in the results of the RASV 2015 Beer Judging results (see details here http://www.rasv.com.au/Events/AIBA_Home/AIBA_Results/AIBA_Past-Results/AIBA_2015_ResultsCatalogue) but also there weren't a lot of "home brewers" either
> 
> ...


I am not sure you even know what points you are trying to make.....but dont let me stop you, that would be a travesty


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (6/5/16)

wobbly said:


> Not implied but what is a fact is that the beer in question was tasted/judged by 20 international judges and judged to be better than the other 40 plus international entries and I guess that "trumps" State and National comps


hang on a sec..... You said against 45 of the worlds largest breweries...and we all know that just because they are the biggest does not always mean they are the best beers...

I am sure that most state and national beers would also beat the 45 largest breweries in the world...

Stick to the script B)


----------



## roger mellie (6/5/16)

goomboogo said:


> It is a lot of money but it's not a lot when compared to the amount of money involved in carrying out some hobbies. Some people will tell you that you're crazy to drop 8 grand on brewing gear and then go and spend $40 000 restoring an old car. A Williamswarn owner could have gone a less expensive route but they chose not to as it was their choice to make.


Yep

I used to spend a grand a year on a new cricket bat and boots. Wouldn't think twice about spending 250 on a new squash racket. Don't get me started on Golf clubs.

Don't have any of that stuff any more.

Will have my shiny brew stuff for ever.

RM


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (6/5/16)

My kids are into BMX...

I will never be able to afford a new esky, yet alone a WW....


----------



## roger mellie (6/5/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> My kids are into BMX...
> 
> I will never be able to afford a new esky, yet alone a WW....


Could always trade your shiny silver moto guzzi clone in for one.

RM


----------



## SBOB (6/5/16)

Bribie G said:


> A Tesla runs mostly on coal, where do you think most electricity still comes from? A thousand Teslas in Melbourne get home, get plugged in, and they shovel more brown coal into the furnaces in the Latrobe Valley. You've simply transferred the pollution from Collins Street to the poor bogans who have to live at Morwell.


off topic but the efficiency of a power station (coal or otherwise) is much more efficient than the inefficient and noisy thing under the bonnet of every car on the road..Yes, you're moving the source of the pollution, but all things being equal it is a reduction (with the benefit that it can be further reduced depending on the source of that power station)


----------



## Elz (6/5/16)

Mine (tesla), if I could afford one would run off solar. Costs nothing but the panels. Truely off topic!


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## wobbly (6/5/16)

In bagging or otherwise this machine we should not loose sight of the fact that the WW is a "fermentation process" and not a wort production unit.

The manufacturers objective in designing the machine was to produce a "kit based beer" as good as or superior to commercial and/or local craft beers and they achieved that using their own extract kits and this machine/process on at least two occasions that we know of winning Gold and Silver against "all comers" at International competitions. 

If you are capable of producing wort equal to or superior to the WW kits which are produced at Speights Brewery in NZ (as are Black Rock kits) and use a WW process (or similar) to ferment them then it is highly likely that you will produce a better beer much faster than traditional process design to produce flat beer requiring clarification/filtering and carbonation and weeks of maturing 

Just saying

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## bradsbrew (6/5/16)

Can you provide a link to the international comp that allows homebrew to be judged against the big multi nationals? Never knew it was possible.


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## Ducatiboy stu (6/5/16)

bradsbrew said:


> Can you provide a link to the international comp that allows homebrew to be judged against the big multi nationals? Never knew it was possible.


I was just thinking the same thing...

Was it an actual competition open to all and sundry...or was it a competition that only the WW beer was allowed to compete against the 45 biggest brewers in the world

If it was the latter, then the whole argument that the WW is better is basically a whole lot of bullshit.....and shoots down the credibility of the unit....



Roger, Wobbly... we know you love your WW's, and they may well be a fantastic bit of kit, but for fucks sake, stop trying to put across that the WW is being hard done by, simply for the sake of saying that it is being hard done by. You are not doing yourselves any favours at all.


----------



## bradsbrew (6/5/16)

The interesting thing for me is that i have not seen a single WW clone build........


----------



## manticle (6/5/16)

This thread is 11 pages long.
Within it has been established that:

1. WW unit is expensive
2. Ww unit focuses on fermentation and dispensation.
3. WW can ferment any wort from anywhere but has no function to create wort.
4. WW users are very happy with their purchase. At least some of those brewers have experienced a wide variety of wort production systems and fermentation systems.

End result : an expensive system with limitations that suit some brewers and not others.

Now that we have established that, can we please, for christ's/****'s/whatever's sake please move on? Let people who are interested discuss the ins and outs and those who think it's a rip, post in other threads. The braumeister threads generally don't have this amount of either fanboi defensiveness nor anti-system venom and this thread should be similar.

If you're interested in the system, even academically: post. If not: desist.

Last request, will prune if ignored.

I for one am not in the market but I am interested, as always, if there are any plans to include a wort production option in future.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (6/5/16)

manticle said:


> The braumeister threads generally don't have this amount of either fanboi defensiveness nor anti-system venom and this thread should be similar.



Yes, but the makers of the BM didnt go and..........well I think you know why...

I like the concept, the whole brewing under pressure is not something that has generally been done on a small homebrew scale.

The unit does have merit, and would have been generally received a lot better if........

I cant see it as something you can just knock up in the shed using an old keg and some tubing.The engineering is what makes it interesting and unique

But it is not for everyone, nor is a BM or a GF....or an old eskymash tun hanging off the back step on a milk crate


----------



## manticle (6/5/16)

I agree stu. It isn't for everyone, it's not for me and presumably not you either.
I'd just like to see this thread progress.
Currently it's like ourobouros fucked an old lady with alzheimers.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (6/5/16)

manticle said:


> ourobouros fucked an old lady with alzheimers.


You just made my night

That is my word of the week ( even though I had to google it ) :lol:


----------



## Dan Pratt (6/5/16)

wobbly said:


> Isn't first place in a competition against 45 of the worlds largest breweries satisfaction/proof enough for you. The following is quoted from the topic referenced in post 190 above
> 
> Quote
> _"A guy made his 3rd batch of beer in one of our breweries and beat 45 of the worlds biggest breweries in a beer comp. He was the only home brewer to have ever done that in the history of brewing. The only other guy to have done that did it this year with one of our Gen2 machines."_
> ...


It's a real shame that your defence to the challenge was to use that information, information from the marketing.


----------



## welly2 (6/5/16)

This competition winning beer being brewed in the WilliamsWarn is admirable, without a doubt, but that in no way means that the WilliamsWarn is capable of doing something that other brewing systems are unable to and thus other brewing systems would be unable to achieve the same feat. It's a great selling point for WilliamsWarn though.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL (6/5/16)

I think one of the owners needs to get the angle grinder out and 'disassemble' the WW in the name of brewing science so we can all see how it works a build a cheap clone... Any takers?


----------



## Black Devil Dog (6/5/16)

The score so far.


If you can afford a WW and wish to own one, buy one.
If you can't afford a WW, point out how much it costs and put shit on it at every opportunity. Then keep pointing out how much it costs and keep putting shit on it. When you run out of reasons to put shit on it, point out how expensive it is.


**** me. Who really cares?


----------



## Blind Dog (6/5/16)

It's no better a selling point for the WW than it would be for Tefal to say an amateur chef won a gold medal in an international pasta sauce cooking competition against 45 of the biggest pasta sauce companies by opening a bottle of pasta sauce and cooking it in the latest whizz bang Tefal saucepan. Mind you, Tefal might actually post links to an independent site allowing a sceptic to verify their claims; maybe the WW ones exist, I just haven't found them. Although, even if I did I still wouldn't see what it had to do with the price of a loaf of bread

Edit: Assume I'd quoted Welly's post


----------



## rude (7/5/16)

Ok a lot of people hate this thread well [email protected]# no hang on I'll try another tact

There has been some great banter here I applaude it humor to me

Especially the Kiwi Aussie banter love it

WW guys, girls dont want to be sexist how do you adjust the pressure on it
reason I ask is Im going to give the pressure ferment a go

I like the idea of digital control suggested to me from Trev I think ?? rather than a adjustable valve

Do the WW instructions give you a procedure for different pressures for different yeasts
different pressures at different times of the ferment

Cheers in advance to WW owners


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL (7/5/16)

Also interested in the above, so do we know if the pressure is measured at the 'gas' space of the fermenter, or the liquid end taking into account the small, but perhaps reasonable additional pressure felt by yeasties at the bottom. Thinking this may be important for lagers, or perhaps this can simply be adjusted for based on theoretical calcs...


----------



## Dan Pratt (7/5/16)

I've had a bit of a read and hey I like the system it has a lot of functions, although it's for extract or fwk and you need to have more equipment to accomodate AG it's unlike anything else on the market. Still way too exxy to justify. 

I went online last night for about 2hrs and couldn't locate the records from the Asia Beer Awards 2012. I found the list of brewerys that attended from the beer beer website but there appears to be no archived results, you know who else won other category's and who they tied 1st place with for the Pilsner. 

I'm almost at the point to email the makers and find the records, anyone been able to locate the comp results??


----------



## roger mellie (7/5/16)

rude said:


> Ok a lot of people hate this thread well [email protected]# no hang on I'll try another tact
> 
> There has been some great banter here I applaude it humor to me
> 
> ...


Rude/Lethal

There are 2 pressure control devices.

A simple spring balance type on the top of the unit that is adjusted by a 'thats where I set it last time' number of turns. Next to that is a pressure gauge. 

After pitching I open 1.5 turns to the left - that gives ~180 to 200kPa of pressure. Depending on what I am making I will lower the pressure to about 175 kPa (for an APA say) or wind in for 220 kPA if I am doing a wheat/pils. The pressure - even at high Krausen - doesn't change alarmingly fast - so getting it wrong isn't the end of the world.

I can see merit in an solenoid valve pressure release mechanism - but you are dealing with quite small passes (5/16 ID) and small SOVS have a tendency to block up (they don't like moisture). During the ferment - you never hear the CO2 escaping but there is a decent volume of gas produced and at 200kPa makes an audible noise if you release pressure manually and there is the occasional carry over of moisture - I reckon a SOV would block up.

So I figure thats why they went with a spring balance type.

The other benefit of the spring balance type is you can remove it completely and tip starsan down its innids for cleaning.

The other is a PRV that is set at 300kPa - you can't adjust this one.

As far as WW recommending settings for different yeasts - not really - they go on aboot levels of carbonation is about all. They attempt to match carbonation with style - BJCP version 2008 (because its really different from BJCP 2016)

Cheers

RM


----------



## roger mellie (7/5/16)

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Also interested in the above, so do we know if the pressure is measured at the 'gas' space of the fermenter, or the liquid end taking into account the small, but perhaps reasonable additional pressure felt by yeasties at the bottom. Thinking this may be important for lagers, or perhaps this can simply be adjusted for based on theoretical calcs...


Definitely measured in the gas space.

Which given the height of the liquid column is < 1M would be very close to the pressure measured at the bottom of the sediment pot - probably 10 kPa different max.

RM


----------



## manticle (7/5/16)

Thread pruned.


As wobbly said in one of the posts I hid: 'not sure how many more times it needs to be stated'.


----------



## MastersBrewery (7/5/16)

roger mellie said:


> Rude/Lethal
> 
> There are 2 pressure control devices.
> 
> ...


Agree solenoid would likely crap out due to moisture etc, however a mass flow controller would do the job admirably and be able to tell you how much co2 it's expelled, that in turn can give you a dead accurate gravity reading if OG is known. Yes I have thought long and hard about building a better cheaper (slightly) WW. Pressure conicals aren't cheap ( now that brewhemoth has gone) glycol chiller(save a further$1000 and use a fridge but limit expansion), MFC, arduino mega, 100-200hrs programing, lots of testing..... done!!!
Probably in the order of $4000 (15gal capable )if you can get your head around the progaming. Though expansion would be cheaper MFC $200 and cost of another conical.
Off the shelf I think only glacia tanks do a rated vessel in HB size(1bbl and less)

So end of the day yes it can be done (in fact has been by an HBT member with a brewhemoth ) 
Pressure ferment has been around for ages and tested with good results. The same with conicals. Puting the two together was always going to produce a great out come. Think about like this if you compared your process with anyone else using a conical properly, you would perform each process they do but on top of that you've added processes used by those who ferment under pressure.
One power ball just sayin....m


----------



## rude (7/5/16)

roger mellie said:


> Rude/Lethal
> 
> There are 2 pressure control devices.
> 
> ...


Hey RM you are a gentleman cheers for advice

Sov is a solenoid right ?

Actually a long time ago you inspired me to make my own mill which I still have
but couldnt afford ss rollers but the nickle plated job has worked out alright

I was going to go for the electric solenoid recommended by Trevgale




mb-squared said:


> hey trevgale, any chance you could post some links to the bits and pieces? I'd like to look into this.
> 
> cheers,


No worries, these are the main components.

Pressure Controller
Pressure Sensor
Solenoid Valve

The only other components are a 1/4" tee, 1/4" hose barb, hose, gas disconnect, plastic project box from jaycar, power cable and a 1/4" end plug.

When I first put it together I just had the open end of the solenoid valve to release the pressure. However this would release too much pressure due to the ~1sec cycle time. Anyway I put a plug in the end of the solinoid with a 1mm hole drilled in it and this did the trick.

So it's not cheap but it does work perfectly and you can both see the exact pressure it is at and set the desired pressure. 


You may have saved me some money if its no good the solenoid he suggests is 1/4"

cheers Lethal rude


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## rude (7/5/16)

hey MB whats a mass flow controller


----------



## rude (7/5/16)

Just googled it MFC now you have done my head in will have a read


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## DJ_L3ThAL (7/5/16)

How accurate is a MFC for $200? Ones we get at work which are reasonably accurate, probably in the range you need to calculate gravity change are in the range more like $4000-7000 depending on size. Burkert branded...


----------



## Elz (8/5/16)

lastly..LOL! Anecdotally i would say hop aroma/ flavour is better/less loss occurs, in an environment of brewing under pressure (no O2). It would be interesting to see what the more seasoned brewers would argue re this point of view. Hops being an expensive part of brewing (and many may say lost in the process) may be better utilised being used when brewed under pressure? Who knows.
Cheers 
Elz


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## DJ_L3ThAL (8/5/16)

Given the WW does not make wort, I assume you are talking about dry hopping.

My understanding is that dry hopping effectiveness is simply around the liquid beers access to the lupulin resin inside the flowers or soaking into the pellets. Unsure the effect pressure would have on this?


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## Elz (8/5/16)

no I'm talking wort going into the fermentation vessle (brewing under pressure) And dry hopping under pressure. In this environment is their less or more more hop flavour/aroma retained (not specifically to the WW?) compared to more more tradition home brewing techniques?
Cheers
Elz


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## Markbeer (8/5/16)

Someone will probably remember where, but I recall the only competition I had seen was for WW owners only.

I think the owner of WW advocates the use of a BM for wort, then the WW for fermentation and serving.

Fermenting under pressure, isn't that what proper SS conicals can do?


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