# Mash Paddle 2009



## RussTaylor (14/2/09)

It's a beer that almost made it last year, this year the ANAWBS committee present to you the mash paddle style for 2009 - Belgian Pale Ale

A Belgian Ale of comparatively low alcohol and considered an everyday session beer.

Check out the BJCP guidelines for Belgian Pale Ale here

Here are some AHB references:
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=10127
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=13506
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=23070

We invite you all to add to these discussions further on this Mash Paddle Belgian Pale Ale thread.

Complete ANAWBS show information and style guidelines will be posted on the website in the next couple of months. This is an all grain competition only, part of ANAWBS (the Australian National Amateur Wine and Beer Show). 

May the all grain battle for the 2009 Belgian Pale Ale mash paddle begin!


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## Adamt (14/2/09)

Top choice! Was on a shortlist of beers to brew this year, it's now a certainty.


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## Stuster (14/2/09)

Yeah, an excellent choice. Glad it won out this time. :super: 

There's also info in the SOTW thread here.


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## RussTaylor (14/2/09)

Stuster said:


> Yeah, an excellent choice. Glad it won out this time. :super:
> 
> There's also info in the SOTW thread here.



Thanks Stuster, I was looking for a Style of the Week thread but couldn't find it.


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## bindi (14/2/09)

RussTaylor said:


> It's a beer that almost made it last year, this year the ANAWBS committee present to you the mash paddle style for 2009 - Belgian Pale Ale
> 
> A Belgian Ale of comparatively low alcohol and considered an everyday session beer.
> 
> Check out the BJCP guidelines for Belgian Pale Ale here






That leaves me out.


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## Tony (14/2/09)

Rats........... was hoping it would be lambic so i could brew for it.


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (14/2/09)

Nice choice Russ!

All who are interested, it's a great style of beer and almost anything goes so I encourage you all to have a go.

Now it's time to send an email to Wyeast and get them to bring back the Leuven  !

C&B
TDA


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## kirem (14/2/09)

THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> Nice choice Russ!
> 
> All who are interested, it's a great style of beer and almost anything goes so I encourage you all to have a go.
> 
> ...



I ordered the canadian belgium yeast and some 'speciality' malts today For a decent crack at this one.

Anyone suggest a good commercial example?

Does the TDA fly blown fit the style? That was one of the best beers I have had.

Anyone know a store that currently stocks the Wyeast 3655 Schelde strain or WLP 515 antwerp?


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## Tony (14/2/09)

I have made a couple and its a great style. Will be having a crack at it myself and id say it will be feircly cometed for trophy........ the belgian catoagories always are arnt they?

have a new trick to try for this one. Will have to brew a trial batch first.......... damn!


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (14/2/09)

kirem said:


> I ordered the canadian belgium yeast and some 'speciality' malts today For a decent crack at this one.
> 
> Anyone suggest a good commercial example?
> 
> ...



kirem, dekoninck is a good example of the style but it is as rare as rocking horse poo!
Not too much else available although maybe IBS or Cloudwine may have alternatives.

The Fly Blown will not suit this style  Thanks for the compliments!

I may have some Schelde in my yeast bank, I will get back to you.

C&B
TDA


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## kook (15/2/09)

kirem said:


> I ordered the canadian belgium yeast and some 'speciality' malts today For a decent crack at this one.
> 
> Anyone suggest a good commercial example?
> 
> ...



Unfortunately there aren't a lot of BJCP commercial examples (if any) available in AU.

This a very misunderstood style (even to me in the past). Most of the examples are very clean in flavour, a lot of people expect big estery Belgian flavours when if anything you should be thinking more along the lines of English bitter!


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## Thirsty Boy (15/2/09)

ahhh crap - I can't make belgian to save my life.

Although kook's last post gives me hope................. any other commercial examples that anyone can think of? or am I going ot have ot fly to Belgium to have a shot at the MP??


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## floppinab (15/2/09)

Hmmmmmm, made my first one of these last year and was really pleased with the result out of the keg but six months later the bottled version that I had, I reckon have gone downhill with regard to flavour profile.

I'm probably wrong of course but I feel that in complete comparison to last year this might be one where fresh is best.


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## Stuster (15/2/09)

I think kook is spot on. I've also previously thought of it as a beer with fully-fledged 'Belgian' characteristics, strong yeast flavours especially, but just lower gravity. But De Koninck on tap is relatively clean, few esters or phenols and definitely no spices. It's a very approachable beer for those who are intimidated by saisons or sour beers and quite a good session beer. I think kook's description of it as being along the lines of a bitter as accurate, though without as much caramel flavour as bitters often have.

TB, no choice but to fly to Belgian and taste if for yourself.


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## Rudy (15/2/09)

For those in Adelaide, the bottle shop at Burnside Village has Palm Speciale. At least they did a few months ago. It's the 2nd reccomended example on the BJCP commercial list. Jackson says "The beer has aromatically toasted maltiness, balanced by a Goldings hop character, and a rounded, orangey finish from the house yeast"


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## BOG (15/2/09)

Oh yes.. The Belgian Beer Cafe is Cammeray is only 10 minutes way.

Some serious research is required.......


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## Rudy (15/2/09)

BOG said:


> Oh yes.. The Belgian Beer Cafe is Cammeray is only 10 minutes way.
> 
> Some serious research is required.......



I like your thinking, mine is about 15 mins away. Can't remember their bottled beer line-up, only one way to find out though.


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## kook (15/2/09)

BOG said:


> Oh yes.. The Belgian Beer Cafe is Cammeray is only 10 minutes way.
> 
> Some serious research is required.......



I doubt you'll find anything relevant to this style there. 

Your best bet would be to get someone in Adelaide to ship you some Palm Speciale, or order some De Koninck from overseas.

Rudy - do you have the name of that shop?


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## RussTaylor (15/2/09)

Murrays Sassy Blonde is marketed as Belgian Pale Ale. Any comments about it? http://www.murraysbrewingco.com.au/artman2...lish/our_beers/


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## winkle (15/2/09)

The brisso one had De Koninck bottles last time I was there, served in a bolleke (even had Antoon). Mind you the bollekes will have probably all been pinched (ouch) by now.


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## kirem (15/2/09)

For maturation and timing purposes, is this normally at the end of November?


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## Rudy (15/2/09)

kook said:


> I doubt you'll find anything relevant to this style there.
> 
> Your best bet would be to get someone in Adelaide to ship you some Palm Speciale, or order some De Koninck from overseas.
> 
> Rudy - do you have the name of that shop?



Shop 59b, Burnside Village
Portrush Road
Glenside SA 5065
Ph: 8338 6333
[email protected]

Next to Lindsay Allan Chemist.

On the top deck of the new car park, facing Portrush Road .

http://www.burnsidevillagecellars.com.au/contact.html

Give them a call.


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## RussTaylor (15/2/09)

kirem said:


> For maturation and timing purposes, is this normally at the end of November?



Kirem, I was a little slow getting the notification out this year. The show is normally around the first or second week of October. Yet to be confirmed.


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## pmolou (15/2/09)

will people be adding brett and other beasties to there beer not sure how reliable this is but i heard palm speciale had a little bit of brett and obviously orval does... but is this more of a belgian specialty catorgy or is it welcome in this style???


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## pmolou (15/2/09)

damn just relised this was all-grain no fair


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## Adamt (15/2/09)

As far as the brett goes... If the style is a carbon copy of the BJCP guidelines it probably wouldn't be appropriate as there's no mention of it, and the brett will have to be managed well to keep it from going too dry and to maintain some maltiness.


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## kook (15/2/09)

pmolou said:


> will people be adding brett and other beasties to there beer not sure how reliable this is but i heard palm speciale had a little bit of brett and obviously orval does... but is this more of a belgian specialty catorgy or is it welcome in this style???



Palm Speciale should not have any brett or other wild yeast characteristics. If this has happened - it's an infected bottle.

That said - historically some of the beers (Op Ale comes to mind) were actually sour beers. If you're trying to replicate these historic flavours though - you'd be better off entering in the Belgian Specialty category.

Orval does not fit this style in any way whatsoever. Often people confuse this style with Leffe Blonde other Blonde / Pale Belgian beers. That is incorrect.

This style is quite specific, only limited to a small set of commercial examples. I would presume any Brett related flavours would be scored as a flaw.


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## Tony (15/2/09)

kook said:


> I would presume any Brett related flavours would be scored as a flaw.



Rats!

will have to pick up points elswhere


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## dj1984 (15/2/09)

When will most of you guys start brewing this beer??


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## BOG (15/2/09)

Last yeasr closing date for entries was 19th September. 
Assuming it's around the same time this year, and assuming (based on style guide) it's a close to that of an English Pale Ale suggests it would be at it's peak about 3 - 4 weeks after bottling. (young drinker)

Into the fermentor in mid to last August should just about do it.


Question: What do you guys pack your bottles in for shipment? I've done drop off entries only in the past.



BOG


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## Tony (15/2/09)

bubble wrap and news paper.

Aussie post has a "must withstand a drop from shoulder height to concrete" policy. Im not joking........ thats their policy!!!

wrap bottles seperatly in bubble wrap, place on box and fill spaces with scrunched up news paper.

I recomend using a courier service. better than Aussie post any day and they will usually have a fragile service.




Now back to the paddle. I will be starting to brew ASAP to make a trial batch or 2.

may no chill a cube and split it between 2 yeasts to maxamise the experiments

The best thing about the paddle is you get to focus on a style you may not usually brew and along the way you learn a bit!

cheers


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## drsmurto (16/2/09)

Tony said:


> The best thing about the paddle is you get to focus on a style you may not usually brew and along the way you learn a bit!
> 
> cheers



I chose not to enter the paddle last year as it was outside my comfort zone. 

This year the style is again, not something i have ever made but am taking on that exact philosophy. It will force me to learn about a style that i would have otherwise continued to ignore...


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## warrenlw63 (16/2/09)

DrSmurto said:


> I chose not to enter the paddle last year as it was outside my comfort zone.
> 
> This year the style is again, not something i have ever made but am taking on that exact philosophy. It will force me to learn about a style that i would have otherwise continued to ignore...



 I'm tempted by this one Dr. Smurts and I haven't even entered a single comp for 6 years 

Not that difficult a style in theory. Just think English Bitter at the lower end of the hopping schedule with maybe some continental hops in the fold. A Belgian yeast strain to add a differing character (hard to get through at that gravity though) and Bob's your uncle unless he had tits then that would make him your aunty. :lol: 

Warren -


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## drsmurto (16/2/09)

warrenlw63 said:


> I'm tempted by this one Dr. Smurts and I haven't even entered a single comp for 6 years
> 
> Not that difficult a style in theory. Just think English Bitter at the lower end of the hopping schedule with maybe some continental hops in the fold. A Belgian yeast strain to add a differing character (hard to get through at that gravity though) and Bob's your uncle unless he had tits then that would make him your aunty. :lol:
> 
> Warren -



If my beer addled memory serves me correctly there was talk a year or 2 back about how Coopers Pale Ale fits into the Belgian Pale Ale class (loosely) and that the yeast Coopers uses has similarities with belgian yeasts. More so than the english heritage we all assume of Thomas Cooper.......


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## Adamt (16/2/09)

From BJCP:



> Flavor: Fruity and lightly to moderately spicy with a soft, smooth malt and relatively light hop character and low to very low phenols. May have an orange- or *pear-like fruitiness*, though not as fruity/citrusy as many other Belgian ales.



Tick in that box at least... I'm not sure about getting the right spicy character with it though. Maybe a blend with a Belgian yeast? I might try that actually. It's my idea, no copying!


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## drsmurto (16/2/09)

If you hopped with Saaz to get the spiciness and used that yeast to get the pear/apple..... 

Just noted this from the BJCP website



> Nothing should be too pronounced or dominant; balance is the key



Yikes!

The most difficult thing to achieve in brewing IMO - balance.


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## BOG (16/2/09)

I've not done one of these before but am willing to have a crack at it.
Like Pumpy I reckon I could get 2 or 3 trial (training) batches in before close off date.

Seems the style guides talk about English hops but the reciepies (Google) seem to have Saaz in them. 


Also Pilsener Malt as a base rather than the usual Ale malt.

Interesting... 





BOG


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## drsmurto (16/2/09)

The guidelines make mention of styrian goldings

Must have been the reason i bought a kilo of plugs late last year.....


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## warrenlw63 (16/2/09)

DrSmurto said:


> The guidelines make mention of styrian goldings
> 
> Must have been the reason i bought a kilo of plugs late last year.....



My bestest ever BPA had 75g of Styrian plugs added to the hopback. :wub: 

Previous efforts minus the Styrian plugs have fallen short of the mark.

Warren -


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## devo (16/2/09)

mmm bugger it's not the stronger variety. I've been spending a considerable amount of time trying perfect my candi sugars which this style doesn't require!


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## BoilerBoy (16/2/09)

Just flicking through the Wyeast offerings for this style and particularly considering they no longer have the "Leuven" available the only one it specifically lists for a BPA is the 
3522 Ardennes.

How does it bstack up against the Leuven?

Cheers,
BB


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## wee stu (3/3/09)

Noice one!!

BPA has been a contender for the paddle a few times, good to see it get the guernsey at last. 

It seems a relatively simple style, but is hard to nail and still allows for a rich seam of creativity. 

It shouldn't be to hard to find a judging panel  

If you are short of a steward nearer the time Russ, you know where to find me :beer: 

Awrabest,

stu


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (4/3/09)

BoilerBoy said:


> Just flicking through the Wyeast offerings for this style and particularly considering they no longer have the "Leuven" available the only one it specifically lists for a BPA is the
> 3522 Ardennes.
> 
> How does it bstack up against the Leuven?
> ...



Missed this BoilerBoy. I have not tried the Ardennes yeast but do have a smackpack in the fridge. It has been there for 14 months now  !
I have some Leuven via Warren via TidalPete if you want to do a comparison.

C&B
TDA


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## warrenlw63 (4/3/09)

BoilerBoy said:


> Just flicking through the Wyeast offerings for this style and particularly considering they no longer have the "Leuven" available the only one it specifically lists for a BPA is the
> 3522 Ardennes.
> 
> How does it bstack up against the Leuven?
> ...



BB 

Rook made a recipe quite similar to my previous BPA. Mine had Leuven. Rook's had Ardennes. Off the top of my head (though not a great guide lately) they were quite similar but with Rook's (Ardennes model) being a little more pleasantly fruity, whilst mine (Leuven) was malty and a little neutral to the point of being a bit boring.

To be honest my hunch is with this style the yeast character is probably the hardest part to eek from the beer. Probably due to the fact it's a lower gravity brew... Is there a daring soul willing to try a Saison strain just for grins?  

Warren -


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## BoilerBoy (4/3/09)

THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> Missed this BoilerBoy. I have not tried the Ardennes yeast but do have a smackpack in the fridge. It has been there for 14 months now  !
> I have some Leuven via Warren via TidalPete if you want to do a comparison.
> 
> C&B
> TDA



14 months, only just coming into its prime now :lol: 

Cheers,
BB


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## Tony (4/3/09)

Has anyone even thought of T-58?

Oh..... a dry yeast couldnt possibly win a mash paddle right?

:icon_cheers:


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## schooey (4/3/09)

Actually.. yep, I did. But I think I'm going to blend it with something else. On it's own the spicy characters can dominate and take a while to balance out..... or so I'm tole


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## Kai (5/3/09)

wee stu said:


> Noice one!!
> 
> BPA has been a contender for the paddle a few times, good to see it get the guernsey at last.
> 
> ...



Time to fire up the old brury, stu!


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## wee stu (12/3/09)

Kai said:


> Time to fire up the old brury, stu!



Can't say I'm not tempted Kai. 

I just can't sem to remember where I misplaced the damn tin opener


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