# The Fun Trappist Yeast



## rich_lamb (17/2/09)

Just made a couple of beers with Wyeast 3787 (Westmalle yeast) and it's been a pretty interesting yeast.

First, a low-ish gravity (1.042) pale ale, mainly for harvesting yeast. At completion the krausen sludge was at the top of the fermenter, so it had nearly climbed out. It attenuated aggressively too, though with all the hot weather down here I had a temp control issue, and it got up to about 23 at times.
Aroma in the fermenter wasn't a thrill - after some research on this yeast I think somebody nailed it with: "quite sulphury, with hints of arse and feet".

So I pitched 250ml of slurry into a well aerated higher gravity ale which I fed with more syrup after a couple of days of active fermenting - total OG would have been about 1.082. This time I was religious about temperature control. Held at 18 until fermenting, then allowed up to 19 for a few days.

So it climbs out of the airlock a couple of times, which seems to be the norm for this yeast. I've seen plenty of youtube videos of it blasting out airlocks...
After a couple of weeks it's still bubbling along; the krausen has settled down and I've let the temp up to 21. It's giving me a chocolate-banana aroma now, which is nice.

Anybody else had fun with this yeast? What can I expect after time, and moreover - does it normally take a while to finish?


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## bindi (17/2/09)

Yep, used it a lot, it just wants to escape and eat any malt around, just let if do its stuff and give it time.


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## Doogiechap (17/2/09)

bindi said:


> Yep, used it a lot, it just wants to escape and eat any malt around, just let if do its stuff and give it time.



You are the kind of person I like to get this info from Bindi 
What is a typical time frame that you let this yeast run for ? I have let mine comp away on a 1084 Strong Dark Belgian which has attenuated 77% down to 1018 (12% of grist was Brown Sugar and Lyles Golden Syrup) and 'think' it has pretty much stalled after 3 weeks. Do you think it's still worth leaving it for a week or two ?
I know there are heaps of variables which effect this such as ferment temps, pitching rates, aeration etc but I guess I'm looking for some 'typical' applications here  
Cheers
Doug


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## newguy (17/2/09)

Doogiechap said:


> You are the kind of person I like to get this info from Bindi
> What is a typical time frame that you let this yeast run for ? I have let mine comp away on a 1084 Strong Dark Belgian which has attenuated 77% down to 1018 (12% of grist was Brown Sugar and Lyles Golden Syrup) and 'think' it has pretty much stalled after 3 weeks. Do you think it's still worth leaving it for a week or two ?
> I know there are heaps of variables which effect this such as ferment temps, pitching rates, aeration etc but I guess I'm looking for some 'typical' applications here



I obviously can't speak for Bindi, but when I use a Belgian strain I always try to warm it up when it seems to have stalled. More often than not, the yeast will wake up and drop the gravity a few more points in just a few days. Right at the end of fermentation, the higher temps don't give any "hot" Belgian flavours like the hot alcohol or nail polish remover if you fermented it hot from the beginning.

If you haven't already, let it warm up to 25-27C for a few days and it will likely drop more.


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## bindi (17/2/09)

What he said, beat me to it, well done newguy.


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## Doogiechap (17/2/09)

newguy said:


> I obviously can't speak for Bindi, but when I use a Belgian strain I always try to warm it up when it seems to have stalled. More often than not, the yeast will wake up and drop the gravity a few more points in just a few days. Right at the end of fermentation, the higher temps don't give any "hot" Belgian flavours like the hot alcohol or nail polish remover if you fermented it hot from the beginning.
> 
> If you haven't already, let it warm up to 25-27C for a few days and it will likely drop more.



Thanks bloke 
Yep I did have it sitting around 26 for the past 5 days or so and managed to get it from 1020 to 1018 but figured that's probably about it. Hmmm I made up 2 x 2l starters from 3/4 of a smack pack of this yeast for a 40 litre batch, perhaps I needed more  . It was fun watching it climb out of the airlock at 19 though and I had 20 litres of free space in the fermenter  .


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## Gough (17/2/09)

newguy said:


> I obviously can't speak for Bindi, but when I use a Belgian strain I always try to warm it up when it seems to have stalled. More often than not, the yeast will wake up and drop the gravity a few more points in just a few days. Right at the end of fermentation, the higher temps don't give any "hot" Belgian flavours like the hot alcohol or nail polish remover if you fermented it hot from the beginning.
> 
> If you haven't already, let it warm up to 25-27C for a few days and it will likely drop more.



Warming it up at the end of ferment is fine. Personally I think 18 is pretty cool to be fermenting this yeast at to start with - you want to encourage the esters etc that this yeast can bring to the table in your Belgian brew - otherwise you wouldn't be using a Belgian yeast?? FWIW I pitch the Murray's Grand Cru using this yeast at 22 and it is a high enough gravity beer and don't have problems with 'nail polish remover' flavours or aromas. I also raise the temp slowly across the ferment and toward the end. Each to their own though. If you like the cooler ferment flavours and aromas then go with it!  Just a thought - love this yeast!

Shawn.


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## bindi (17/2/09)

Sounds like it's done if it has only gone down 2 points over 5 days at 26c, 1.085 to 1.018.
What does it taste like, going in a kegs or bottles?

Gouch I have been pitching at around 20c and raise it to 25c over 5 days with the bigger beers, it will stop dead if you cool it.

And to start a debate: I have under pitched this yeast for a stronger ferment and esters, let us see who jumps in here.


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## newguy (17/2/09)

Doogiechap said:


> Thanks bloke
> Yep I did have it sitting around 26 for the past 5 days or so and managed to get it from 1020 to 1018 but figured that's probably about it. Hmmm I made up 2 x 2l starters from 3/4 of a smack pack of this yeast for a 40 litre batch, perhaps I needed more  . It was fun watching it climb out of the airlock at 19 though and I had 20 litres of free space in the fermenter  .



Have you tried gently swirling the fermenter twice a day for several days? You can also try adding 1-2 tsp of yeast nutrient boiled in ~150ml water to help kickstart things. Just don't immediately bottle or keg after you add the nutrient; give it a week to dissipate otherwise you might have some rather funky tasting beer.


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## Gough (17/2/09)

bindi said:


> Sounds like it's done if it has only gone down 2 points over 5 days at 26c, 1.085 to 1.018.
> What does it taste like, going in a kegs or bottles?
> 
> Gouch I have been pitching at around 20c and raise it to 25c over 5 days with the bigger beers, it will stop dead if you cool it.
> ...



No debate here - 'underpitching' needs to be defined - one brewers underpitch can be another brewers standard pitch - but I always pitch on the lighter side of my norm with this yeast for the reasons you cite. One of the techniques I picked up from working with Graeme. So no debate really from me :lol: 

Shawn.


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## Doogiechap (17/2/09)

Your information is pure gold gentlemen !
Thanks for your input


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## bindi (17/2/09)

Gough said:


> No debate here - 'underpitching' needs to be defined - one brewers underpitch can be another brewers standard pitch - but I always pitch on the lighter side of my norm with this yeast for the reasons you cite. One of the techniques I picked up from working with Graeme. So no debate really from me :lol:
> 
> Shawn.




Bugger  now very man and his dog knows, works with Wyeast 1214 also but does not want to escape like 3787.


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## rich_lamb (17/2/09)

Normally I'd underpitch a little to get those esters, but I went with a good sized, healthy 2nd gen population and the cooler temp as I REALLY want to avoid any hot alcohol flavour. Always got that in the past - but with different yeasts.

Hey Doug, our beers sound like almost identical specs!

I've started the process of giving the fermenter a light swirl every couple of days, and I'll let the temperature up a bit more too. I am certainly getting some nice esters now anyway. I shall measure gravity at a convenient point soon - no hurry, it's still bubbling

Is the 3787 safe for use around small children? I was afraid I'd go into the "brewery" (study) and find their little bodies encased in goo like in that scene in Aliens.


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## neonmeate (17/2/09)

love this yeast, i pretty much brew 60% of my beers with it these days. reliable and versatile. at hot temps fruity and phenolic and at low temps malty and clean. i quite like what it does at 18C, just a hint of fruitiness and spice, good for a nice 6% Belgian IPA which has become my house swiller. it's fantastic also for high grav beers, won't be rough at all at 12%.

interesting that shawn underpitches with it to get some esters. i have had hit and miss with the aroma from this yeast, to get that really huge doughy belgian aroma is a challenge. one beer'll have it and the next won't. i wonder about aeration too.


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## tazman1967 (17/2/09)

I have got this yeast going in my Westmalle clone atm..I started the temp at 18c 3 days ago..and have let it rise slowly to 20c..never over.
It has turned into a volcano and burping madly. I pitched a 2 litre starter and a t/spoon of yeast nutrients into it.
I have just put the blowoff tube on the fermenter.
For info..the OG was 1.083
Cheers


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## bindi (17/2/09)

tazman1967 said:


> I have got this yeast going in my Westmalle clone atm..I started the temp at 18c 3 days ago..and have let it rise slowly to 20c..never over.
> It has turned into a volcano and burping madly. I pitched a 2 litre starter and a t/spoon of yeast nutrients into it.
> I have just put the blowoff tube on the fermenter.
> For info..the OG was 1.083
> Cheers




You make one very GOOD POINT, that is yeast nutrients it is used in EVERY Belgian starter and boil.


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## Tony (17/2/09)

I also love this yeast.

I tend to ferment a 27 liter batch in a 60 liter fermenter and it still gets up near the lid. Crazy stuff!

Gradual feeding helps you ferment a bit warmer but avoid the hot alc. It also means you stir it up on day 3 and 5 (what i did anyway) and seemed to get it to FG very fast.

And yeah......... underpitching works too. I have pitched onto a full yeast cake and lost half the brew out the airlock and it had less character than one i just dribbled a bit in a clean fermenter from the previous batch and pitched on that.

Thats why we under pitch wheat yeasts too isnt it. We want them a bit stressed and funky.


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## bulp (18/2/09)

This yeast really gives me a hard-on  The last two beers i started ferment at 21 for three days and let it get to 25-26ish loving the aroma profile and definately no solvent type flavours but i'm definately getting quite confused after a glass or two (as we speak), Oh i love Belgian brewing Bindi thanks again for the red malty bliss piss mate, one of those beers i can't stop putting to my mouth. And as an aside i love Murreys (oh hecjk i don't know how to spell it) Grand Cru. I think i better go to bed. 3787 Rocks.


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## Bindi (28/10/17)

bulp said:


> This yeast really gives me a hard-on  The last two beers i started ferment at 21 for three days and let it get to 25-26ish loving the aroma profile and definately no solvent type flavours but i'm definately getting quite confused after a glass or two (as we speak), Oh i love Belgian brewing Bindi thanks again for the red malty bliss piss mate, one of those beers i can't stop putting to my mouth. And as an aside i love Murreys (oh hecjk i don't know how to spell it) Grand Cru. I think i better go to bed. 3787 Rocks.



Sorry I know it is an old post. just going over my posts from years ago.
Back to brewing "large" beers, back in a small way for now, one batch bottled and two brewing [should come in around 6- 6.5% all 3] Stout and Belgians.


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## hoppy2B (30/10/17)

I drank my first Westmalle Dubbel (supposedly where we get Wy3787 from) last week and TBH it just tasted like it had been fermented with s-04.


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## MHB (30/10/17)

I suspect that is either a reflection on the condition the beer was in or on your palate.
In good condition anything from Westmalle has buckets of flavour that there is no chance you will get from S-04 (as much as I like S-04).
Getting a couple of Westmalle beers that have been well looked after could be, to use an old horse - doing yourself a favour.
Mark


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## hoppy2B (5/11/17)

MHB said:


> I suspect that is either a reflection on the condition the beer was in or on your palate.
> In good condition anything from Westmalle has buckets of flavour that there is no chance you will get from S-04 (as much as I like S-04).
> Getting a couple of Westmalle beers that have been well looked after could be, to use an old horse - doing yourself a favour.
> Mark



I quite liked the Westmalle but the main flavour I picked up was vanilla, which is what I think I get when I use S-04. What flavours do you suggest are in the Westmalle, so I can maybe see if I can pick them out if/when I try another one?


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## MHB (5/11/17)

I just went and googled up "westmalle tripel tasting notes" as this is one of my favourite beers and I couldn't recall tasting or hearing mention of Vanilla (not from S-04 either), interested to see if anyone else was getting vanilla - Nada - this one was pretty typical, and for mine fairly close to what I get.
http://www.belgiansmaak.com/westmalle-tripel/
The aroma is dominated by fruity esters; mostly banana, apple and then some more banana. Accompanying this sweetness, there is a subtle hint of spicy pepper and a bready biscuit that is often associated with Belgian yeast strains of the type used by Trappist monks.

You might just be very sensitive to Vanillin, if you get the chance it might be worth exploring your detection threshold, some people are super tasters/smellers for various beer flavours.
Mind you with a bit of age on them or if mishandled some Belgians can get really weird, I have mention the International Beer Collector, both local and a mate so yes I do have a vested interest, but if you want to taste Belgian beers in pristine condition try what he has to offer.
Mark


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## manticle (5/11/17)

It was the dubbel rather than the tripel that was referred to, although for my palate, westmalle dubbel is a benchmark too. Can't remember vanilla although traces would not be out of place.

I have no vested interest with IBC but second the recommendation


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