# Just A question or two from an inexperienced new member



## Fantomix (20/8/09)

Good tidings everybody, as you can see I'm rather new here. I've joined to explore my interest in the brewing of non-beer bevarges, mainly along the lines of mead, cider and wassail. 

Anyway, the other day I started a bit of a brewing project more as a form of entertainment than for any worthwhile end product. It's rather laughable, especially I imagine from the viewpoint of any experienced brewer, but nonetheless, I'd like to go into detail.

Basically, following a recipe from an old cook book, I began to make an apple cider. The process involved cutting into thin slices about 10 average sized, overripe apples (in this case of the Red Delicious variety), putting them in a bucket with 2 litres of water, covering with cloth and then leaving to ferment over a couple of weeks. After this, I sieved the liquid to remove the large apple chunks, then strained through cloth. I then discarded the waste, mixed around a cup of a combination of brown and white sugar into the liquid and bottled it, disposing of some that I lacked space for. I ended up with about 1.5L. The recipe then said to leave uncorked but covered with cloth for a further two weeks before corking and storing for 2-3 months. This is the stage I'm at.

I know, it all sounds terribly amateur , I'm sure many of you must be groaning at the whole process. Anyway, I'd just like to know if what I end up with is going to be at all toxic. Also, comments on the process I followed are appreciated as well. 

Thanks guys (and gals, possibly ), and it's good to be here.

[EDIT: Oops, the title appears to have messed up. It was meant to say "Just a question or two from an inexperienced new member".]


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## Stuster (21/8/09)

Toxic, probably not. The main danger I think is with the amount of sugar you added. How much sugar was there (in grams?) for how many bottles? There's a real danger of exploding bottles if you added a cup of sugar to 2L of the liquid and then immediately bottled.

Oops, on re-reading the process, it's actually even stranger than I thought. Looks like you left it uncorked after adding the sugar so no danger of bottles exploding. I can't see how this process would result in a very drinkable cider, and the recipe suggested this way is not clear at all to me. It seems very likely you'll have wild yeast and bacteria fermenting this cider which will probably leave some strange flavours. You're bound to get some oxidation. You won't get much apple flavour because you added only some apples to water - it's better to just juice the apples.

And that's what I'd advise you to do next time. Just juice up some apples into a fermenter. Add yeast (or just rely on the wild yeast on the skins of the apples). Wait until it's finished fermenting (through using a hydrometer to check the gravity is constant), probably waiting a month or two. Bottle with sugar (measured amounts). Wait a couple of weeks and see how it tastes. Also, I'd suggest some sanitising procedures if you didn't do that this time. 

I think you should crack open a bottle and let us know how it tastes though. There's only way of knowing for sure if it worked in practice.


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## Fantomix (21/8/09)

> Toxic, probably not. The main danger I think is with the amount of sugar you added. How much sugar was there (in grams?) for how many bottles? There's a real danger of exploding bottles if you added a cup of sugar to 2L of the liquid and then immediately bottled.
> 
> Oops, on re-reading the process, it's actually even stranger than I thought. Looks like you left it uncorked after adding the sugar so no danger of bottles exploding. I can't see how this process would result in a very drinkable cider, and the recipe suggested this way is not clear at all to me. It seems very likely you'll have wild yeast and bacteria fermenting this cider which will probably leave some strange flavours. You're bound to get some oxidation. You won't get much apple flavour because you added only some apples to water - it's better to just juice the apples.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I didn't think it would be toxic, I just recall reading a horror story about bacteria forming in apple ciders causing brain damage or something. Probably nothing to worry about though, it seemed like a pretty rare occurance.

And yeah, I thought it was a pretty unorthodox method, especially in comparison with what most people tend to do which is, yeah, juicing, but I figured the recipe was worth a shot. If you'd like to take a look at the recipe word-for-word I could scan it up for you later. And I certainly intend to have a taste of it once it's done, but following the recipe that'll be in around three months, unfortunately. When I bottled it last night however it didn't taste half bad. I actually heated up the cider I couldn't store, mixed in cinnamon, and that was rather pleasant also. But yeah, not a decidedly appley taste, sadly. 

Yeah, let me know if you'd like to see the recipe, and I'll keep you posted on how the "cider" is going.


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## manticle (21/8/09)

Fantomix said:


> Yeah, I didn't think it would be toxic, I just recall reading a horror story about bacteria forming in apple ciders causing brain damage or something. Probably nothing to worry about though, it seemed like a pretty rare occurance.
> 
> And yeah, I thought it was a pretty unorthodox method, especially in comparison with what most people tend to do which is, yeah, juicing, but I figured the recipe was worth a shot. If you'd like to take a look at the recipe word-for-word I could scan it up for you later. And I certainly intend to have a taste of it once it's done, but following the recipe that'll be in around three months, unfortunately. When I bottled it last night however it didn't taste half bad. I actually heated up the cider I couldn't store, mixed in cinnamon, and that was rather pleasant also. But yeah, not a decidedly appley taste, sadly.
> 
> Yeah, let me know if you'd like to see the recipe, and I'll keep you posted on how the "cider" is going.



Bacteria in unpasteurised cider is supposedly only a worry in soft cider. You are making hard cider. It's not that far removed from Normandy ciders - certainly nothing to laugh at.

There are some good web links for making normandy/breton style ciders if that's what you're into you. Aiming to have a crack myself at some point but need to work out a better system of juicing first.


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## Airgead (21/8/09)

Its certainly.... unorthodox. You say this came out of an old cook book? May I ask which one? I don't think I have seen this method used anywhere else although it does bear a passing resemblance to some alcoholic lemonade recipes I have seen.

As the other have said, it won't be toxic. Whether it will be drinkable is another matter...Have you tasted it at all? 

Cheers
Dave


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## HoppingMad (21/8/09)

> Basically, following a recipe from an old cook book, I began to make an apple cider. The process involved cutting into thin slices about 10 average sized, overripe apples (in this case of the Red Delicious variety), putting them in a bucket with 2 litres of water



Over ripe apples = stewy flavours. Know it's often what you can get but a better result will come from fresher stuff I reckon. 



> covering with cloth and then leaving to ferment over a couple of weeks.



So wild yeast? No yeast added? A lot of US cider recipes do this from what I've seen, but plenty on here will shudder at that one. You'll enjoy a shorter fermentation and more pleasant flavour with a packaged yeast, but I guess whatever floats your boat.



> After this, I sieved the liquid to remove the large apple chunks, then strained through cloth.
> ]I then discarded the waste, mixed around a cup of a combination of brown and white sugar into the liquid and bottled it, disposing of some that I lacked space for. I ended up with about 1.5L. The recipe then said to leave uncorked but covered with cloth for a further two weeks before corking and storing for 2-3 months. This is the stage I'm at.



Not sure if you're going to get fizzy cider with this method? Or are you aiming for a still cider? To get fizz you'd bottle and seal up right away I would have thought. But maybe this will work just fine due to the sugar content. Be interested to see how this turns out for you.

Hopper.

Edit - removed a comment - just re-read OP


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## manticle (21/8/09)

Have a look here for some good tips on making cider with just apples (yeast source from the apple itself): http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/cider_1.htm

This link is also good: http://www.fcs.uga.edu/pubs/PDF/FDNS-E-91.pdf although pasteurisation is something I would only do if I made soft cider and wanted to keep it.

There are some good threads on cider making around.


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## raven19 (21/8/09)

HoppingMad said:


> So wild yeast? No yeast added? A lot of US cider recipes do this from what I've seen, but plenty on here will shudder at that one. You'll enjoy a shorter fermentation and more pleasant flavour with a packaged yeast, but I guess whatever floats your boat.



However if it turns out ok, keep a bottle with yeast trub - so you can reuse next time...


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