# Dunkelweizen Ideas



## amiddler (11/3/11)

I've been toying with the idea of making a Dunkelweizen or Weizenbock. Basically I want to make a red wheat beer and it would best fit in these categories. 
What I was thinking was a heap of Wheat 45%ish, 20% of Munich and Vienna to stick with style, 10% Carared for the color and 5% Dark Crystal to get close to the 25-30 EBC (Redish). Hursbrucker to 15IBU, 5%Alc.

What do others think, I know the Alc is low to be a Weizenbock but what I'm after is a vibrant red color. Am I going to get close with these malts? If not what will and what color (EBC) should I aim for.

Drew


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## Nick JD (12/3/11)

If you want red, ironically carared is no good. You want caraaroma - but take it easy - the red colour comes with so much maltiness that you could overpower some of the phenolics and esters. 

It's freakin fantastic at complimenting a fruity dry hop in an APA though.


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## Sunshine_Brewer (12/3/11)

Sounds like a neat idea might try it myself.

Just finished an American Red Ale with these approx percentages, the most reddish beer for me. :icon_drool2:
Carared 8% (oh the Germans understand colours)
Caraaroma 4%
melanoiden 4%
Munich 8%
Pale choc 2%


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## drsmurto (12/3/11)

To get the colour use caramel and choc wheat :icon_drool2: 

My last dunkelweizen used this grist (my roggenbier is the same with rye instead of wheat)

54% Wheat (dark if you have it)
38% Munich 
6% Caramel Wheat
2% Chocolate Wheat

EBC = 40 (using dark wheat and munich II), 35 if using pale wheat and Munich I


Kegging my first weizenbock today (actually, it's a rye dunkel weizenbock.....)

2.50 kg Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 31.25 % 
2.00 kg Rye Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 25.00 % 
2.00 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 25.00 % 
1.00 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 12.50 % 
0.25 kg Caramel Wheat Malt (Weyermann) (115.0 EBC) Grain 3.13 % 
0.25 kg Chocolate Wheat (Weyermann) (817.6 EBC) Grain 3.13 % 

EBC = 45 so right on the upper limits of colour according to the BJCP guidelines (although by using rye i am out of style anyway)

My 2 c
DrSmurto


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## amiddler (12/3/11)

Thanks for the great replies. Was thinking the Dark Crystal might be to over powering and was going to swap with Caraaroma.

I have a bag of Pale Wheat malt, would I be able to toast it lightly in a moderate oven to make Dark Wheat malt or is there more to Dark Wheat than this?

Drew


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## Tony (12/3/11)

for a great Dunkelweisen....... use dark wheat and Pils as the base. The dark wheat is basicly munich wheat so no need to put more munich in there. Some vienna wont hurt but keep it's use down to 10 to 20% and the rest pils. 

In fact thinking about it if your using 10% carared, stick with just dark wheat and pils...... it will be malty enough.

When i make a dunkelweisen i use dark wheat, pils and enough chocolate wheat to colour it without taking away from that dry quenching character a wheatie should have. lots of crystal malts tend to gum them up as they have almost no bitterness to start with and the beers ballance goes out the window.

So you could either use 10% carared or enough carafa spec II or weyerman chocolate wheat to make it up to the colour you want.

Note on the dark wheat...... it has a different flavour to munich malt..... its dryer and nuttier and will give the correct flavours your after.

cheers


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## amiddler (12/3/11)

Thanks Tony. I have some Caramel Malt left from a previous brew, too sweet for the style? I also have some Caraffa 1 left from a Shwarzbier, could use that for a little color addition.



Drew said:


> I have a bag of Pale Wheat malt, would I be able to toast it lightly in a moderate oven to make Dark Wheat malt or is there more to Dark Wheat than this?
> 
> Drew



Has anyone toasted Wheat malt? Will this equal Dark Wheat malt?

Drew


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## matr (13/3/11)

Got this one in the keg at the mo. Very nice..

68% Dark wheat
25% Munich
5% Caramunich
2% Carafa II

Protein Rest @ 52C 15mins
Mash @ 65C for 60mins

Hallertauer to 15IBU
WB06 @ 18C

21L batch

Cheers, Mat.


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## amiddler (13/3/11)

OK, taking in peoples ideas that have made a Dunkelweizen how does this look?
What I realy want is a tarty wheat beer that is a bright red color and I will cold condition to make it as clear as possible with out a filter.
Yes Nick I stuck with some Carared but changed the Dark Crystal to Caraaroma to get color to 30 EBC.
Still taking ideas, not brewing untill Wednesday.

Drew

Recipe: Red Wheat
Brewer: Andrew
Asst Brewer: Reuben
Style: Dunkelweizen
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: () 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 15.00 L 
Boil Size: 20.60 L
Estimated OG: 1.046 SG
Estimated Color: 31.4 EBC
Estimated IBU: 16.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
1.30 kg Wheat Malt, Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 40.63 % 
0.70 kg Munich Malt (17.7 EBC) Grain 21.88 % 
0.50 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (3.9 EBC) Grain 15.63 % 
0.40 kg Carared (39.4 EBC) Grain 12.50 % 
0.30 kg Caraaroma (256.1 EBC) Grain 9.38 % 
20.00 gm Hallertauer [4.80 %] (60 min) Hops 16.2 IBU 
1 Pkgs German Wheat (Danstar #WB-06) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 3.20 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
60 min Mash In Add 11.20 L of water at 74.9 C 66.0 C


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## barto1308 (14/3/11)

I reckon you should be about right with that amount of caraAroma. I'm drinking a Dunkelweizen at the moment made from the following:

23L batch
3kg Coopers Wheat Malt LME
1kg Munich II
.5kg CaraAroma

Colour is excellent, with a nice dark coppery hue, but if anything, the CaraAroma maltiness has overpowered the spicey phenolics you want in a German wheat beer. In my recipe, I would probably dial it back to .3kg next time



Drew said:


> OK, taking in peoples ideas that have made a Dunkelweizen how does this look?
> What I realy want is a tarty wheat beer that is a bright red color and I will cold condition to make it as clear as possible with out a filter.
> Yes Nick I stuck with some Carared but changed the Dark Crystal to Caraaroma to get color to 30 EBC.
> Still taking ideas, not brewing untill Wednesday.
> ...


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## Nick JD (14/3/11)

Drew said:


> OK, taking in peoples ideas that have made a Dunkelweizen how does this look?


That's gonna be red alright. Ruby coloured. 

I'd pull 100g each of both the caraaroma and the carared and add 200g of melanoidin, but that's just me.


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## np1962 (14/3/11)

Brewed a Dunkelweizen yesterday, grainbill follows. CaraRye used as I had no Carawheat. Good colour, fantastic malt aroma.
Nige

49% Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (4.0 EBC) 
20% Munich I (Weyermann) (16.0 EBC) 
20% Munich II (Weyermann) (24.0 EBC) 
4% Caramel Rye (Weyermann) (160.0 EBC) 
4% Caramunich II (Weyermann) (120.0 EBC) 
3% Carafa II (Weyermann) (817.6 EBC)


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## Bizier (14/3/11)

I am with Tony and Dr S on the dark wheat. I have not used it in a dunkel, but have used it in some other beers, and it contributes the exact toasty malt flavour you want out of a dunkelweizen.

FWIW I am planning to use dark wheat as the sole spec malt in some APAs to get them dry with that lovely toasty note.


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## amiddler (27/8/11)

Rather than start a new thread I thought I would tack another question onto an old one. My last Dunkelweizen wasn't bad but I'm going in for round 2.

Could I turn normal wheat malt into dark wheat by baking it in the oven? If so what temp and for how long would be recommended? I would be aiming for Wyermann specs of about 20 EBC.

Thanks, Drew


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## amiddler (28/8/11)

Drew said:


> Rather than start a new thread I thought I would tack another question onto an old one. My last Dunkelweizen wasn't bad but I'm going in for round 2.
> 
> Could I turn normal wheat malt into dark wheat by baking it in the oven? If so what temp and for how long would be recommended? I would be aiming for Wyermann specs of about 20 EBC.
> 
> Thanks, Drew




Anyone know??


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## Tim F (28/8/11)

http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter20-4.html


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## amiddler (29/8/11)

Thanks Tim. I forgot about that section in my book. I'm now thinking of trying 180'C for 20 mins and see what comes out. John recomends a 2 week rest for all home toasted malts so I will have to put my brew date back a week.

Drew


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## Tim F (29/8/11)

Let us know how it goes, I've toasted oats for a brew but not malt.


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## jeffsonia (1/9/11)

i am about to attempt my first dunkelweizen and am after feedback/thoughts on my recipe. i read that it's preferrable to use dark wheat however i dont have any handy and would like to use what i have. the grain bill is for a 36 litre batch created on beersmith 2.

5kg barret burston wheat malt(3.0 ebc) 53.1%
2.15kg weyermann munich malt( 17 ebc) 22.8%
1.42kg barret burston ale malt(5.1 ebc) 15.1%
0.35kg weyermann caramunich 2(110-13- ebc) 3.7%
0.30 special b malt(280-340 ebc) 3.1%
0.20kg carafa special 2 (1100-1200 ebc) 2.1%
71.55 g australian hallatauer hop flowers 5.9% @ 60 mins
wlp300 yeast.


any thoughts or feedback would be great. cheers.


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## jeffsonia (2/9/11)

Bump.

Open to suggestions / hints and or tips on this recipe.

Cheers.


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## Tony (2/9/11)

Im not sure how many times this has come up, and mostly, people just brew what they origionally post because they dont have the ingredients myself and others recomend.

you wont get the right flavours using munich malt

you wont get the right flavours using pale wheat

you will get the right flavours using Pilsner malt and Dark Wheat malt

a Dunkelweizen should be a simple beer...... just darken it up with weyermann chocolate wheat or carafa spec 2 and let the malt and yeast do the talking!

drop the caramunich and special B..... they dont belong there! Sweetness comes from low bitterness.

cheers


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## jeffsonia (2/9/11)

Thanks for the feedback Tony, i'll chase down some more grains and look at putting a brew down next weekend. Much appreciated for tthe info.

Cheers.


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## Tony (2/9/11)

Its well worth getting the propper ingredients

try this:

Dunkelweizen - 2

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 36.00 Wort Size (L): 36.00
Total Grain (kg): 7.70
Anticipated OG: 1.050 Plato: 12.38
Anticipated EBC: 33.8
Anticipated IBU: 16.8
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 75 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
58.4 4.50 kg. Weyermann Wheat Dark Germany 1.037 15
39.0 3.00 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 1.038 4
2.6 0.20 kg. Weyermann Choc Wheat Germany 1.035 1100



Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
40.00 g. Hallertauer Whole 5.90 16.8 60 min.



Yeast
-----

WYeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen @ 20 deg c



mash single infusion at 65 or mash in at 63 for 45 min then infuse with boiling water to 71 for 15 min.

The amount of hops you had in your recipe for the vatch size you said gave me 31 IBU...... double what you want!

cheers

Edit: If you want a bit more chocolaty character, use 3 or 4% carawheat


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## jjthickett (8/9/11)

Thanks very much Tony and drSmurto. This is just what I wanted to brew next. Hope I can get all the ingredients at the local place.

Just finished a batch of drSmurto's Golden Ale - Damn it's a Beautiful Thing!


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## Parks (23/9/11)

Tony said:


> Grain/Extract/Sugar
> 
> % Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ...



Hey Tony,

I brewing basically this recipe this weekend, I got some Hallertaur hops from Ross and his site said they'd be 5.3% but then got them and they were 2.6% 

Is there any issue with throwing in twice the hops for this? Is there another higher alpha hop that would be fine to maybe sub half? 

I have Cascade, Czech Saaz, EKG, Amarillo, POR, all of which are over 5%.

Cheers! :icon_cheers:


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## Parks (23/9/11)

Parks said:


> Hey Tony,
> 
> I brewing basically this recipe this weekend, I got some Hallertaur hops from Ross and his site said they'd be 5.3% but then got them and they were 2.6%
> 
> ...



I should say if anyone else has any input on this I'd be glad to listen too


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