# Rotating Sparge Arm Under $30



## danman (22/8/08)

hey guys,just found this nifty little number in a dusty corner of my LHBS.
"what the hell is this Col?" i ask as i hold up a bag with some pvc pipe and a bit of brass tubing in it.
"thats a rotating sparge arm,i thought id lost that years ago" he replies.

so i takes it home excited as a school boy,mill up some grain and start a brew.

plug the sparge arm in to my silicon hose from my urn and open the tap.

stop sparging at 2 Brix (1009) to find that i was under my target volume!
my efficiency had increased by 11% and i had to reduce my boil to 45 mins to hit final volume.

Point of this ramble is - if anyone is keen to make one for under $30 PM me as it takes 10 mins in a hobby store and at bunnings and about an hour (if you arent a tooltard!) to make one of these little beauties!

Life keeps getting better in the shed at my place!!

cheers,dan


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## kook (22/8/08)

I was always under the impression that a lot of heat was lost with these whirlygig sparge arms, hence why people stopped using them?

The water supposedly cools as it falls through the air. It would be easy to test though, by measuring the temp of the water exiting the HLT, then measuring the temp of the water ontop of the mash.


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## Screwtop (22/8/08)

kook said:


> I was always under the impression that a lot of heat was lost with these whirlygig sparge arms, hence why people stopped using them?
> 
> The water supposedly cools as it falls through the air. It would be easy to test though, by measuring the temp of the water exiting the HLT, then measuring the temp of the water ontop of the mash.




Mine has been lost in the shed too. Had to have sparge water at close to boiling and even then couldn't maintain grainbed temp at 76 during the sparge. After a few uses the holes had blocked up in mine and I had to hang around during the sparge as it would stop rotating. Changed to a single length of 1/2" copper as a return manifold.



danman said:


> stop sparging at 2 Brix (1009) to find that i was under my target volume!
> my efficiency had increased by 11% and i had to reduce my boil to 45 mins to hit final volume.



Just add water to achieve target boil volume if your under. Increase your mashtun deadspace amount by the amount you were short for next time. Long slow fly sparge usually increases efficiency.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (22/8/08)

kook said:


> I was always under the impression that a lot of heat was lost with these whirlygig sparge arms, hence why people stopped using them?
> 
> The water supposedly cools as it falls through the air. It would be easy to test though, by measuring the temp of the water exiting the HLT, then measuring the temp of the water ontop of the mash.


Kook I use one just as mentioned, and its great, made it myself, the trick is to have the sparge liquor a little hotter (Approx 80C) and run the device through a lid.No problems keeping the grain bed warm.It actually steams my glass's up when I open the inspection opening.A torch comes in handy.
GB


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## kook (22/8/08)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Kook I use one just as mentioned, and its great, made it myself, the trick is to have the sparge liquor a little hotter (Approx 80C) and run the device through a lid.No problems keeping the grain bed warm.It actually steams my glass's up when I open the inspection opening.A torch comes in handy.
> GB



It sounds like having a lid on makes a big difference. Makes sense I guess - the air in the space would heat up from steam etc.


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## T.D. (22/8/08)

When I used to fly sparge I used one of these sparge arms. Mine is a Phil's Sparg Arm. Great little things. In fact I've recently been thinking about getting back into fly sparging recently.

Like Gryphon, I find that if you heat your sparge water to ~80deg there are no issues with the sparge temp as it hits the grain bed. And anyway, with fly sparging its a good idea not to be too excessive with the sparge temp in case you extract tannins from the grain. Having said that in dozens of fly sparged brews I have never had any problems with tannins.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (22/8/08)

T.D. said:


> When I used to fly sparge I used one of these sparge arms. Mine is a Phil's Sparg Arm. Great little things. In fact I've recently been thinking about getting back into fly sparging recently.
> 
> Like Gryphon, I find that if you heat your sparge water to ~80deg there are no issues with the sparge temp as it hits the grain bed. And anyway, with fly sparging its a good idea not to be too excessive with the sparge temp in case you extract tannins from the grain. Having said that in dozens of fly sparged brews I have never had any problems with tannins.


Yes I think husk Tannins are more pH sensitive than heat related.Deccoction brews boils the grains and I dont find any tannin astringency so It kind of confirms my ideas.Over sparging is a real problem, a pH of 6 + on final runnings is getting a litttle close for comfort.
GB


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## dr K (22/8/08)

Nice to watch but generally next to useless, the heat loss really is quite dramatic, still for a mere $30 you have hardly overspent.
My concern is the comment that you "had" to reduce your boil to 45 minutes, a very foolish thing to do.The magical 11% increase in efficiency though is another cause for concern as a swing of that degree indicates some underlying poor techniques.
I note that you are from Canberra in which case you have at your very doorstep more brewing knowledge than most of the rest of the known universe can muster.

K


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## T.D. (22/8/08)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Yes I think husk Tannins are more pH sensitive than heat related.Deccoction brews boils the grains and I dont find any tannin astringency so It kind of confirms my ideas.Over sparging is a real problem, a pH of 6 + on final runnings is getting a litttle close for comfort.
> GB



Yes!! This is something that has always seemed to me like a major contradiction. You get some people getting very animated about fly sparging being susceptable to tannin extraction, but they have no problems with decoctions!

I agree over-sparging is a problem. I always thought that if I achieved sub-1.010 SGs before I reached my boil volume that I would rather add the remaining sparge water directly to the kettle rather than running it through the grain bed.


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## T.D. (22/8/08)

dr K said:


> The magical 11% increase in efficiency though is another cause for concern as a swing of that degree indicates some underlying poor techniques.



I just assumed initially that it was a move from batch sparging to fly sparging. Even if its not, I don't think its that magical. Without a proper method of adding the sparge water to the mash thre can be huge implications for efficiency. Channeling, for instance, can dramatically reduce efficiency. This is much less likely to occur when using a sparge arm.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (22/8/08)

T.D. said:


> I just assumed initially that it was a move from batch sparging to fly sparging. Even if its not, I don't think its that magical. Without a proper method of adding the sparge water to the mash thre can be huge implications for efficiency. Channeling, for instance, can dramatically reduce efficiency. This is much less likely to occur when using a sparge arm.


I hope this is on track with the original post,Yes channeling will result in a loss of extraction.When I first started brewing, a few years ago now , I would NEVER touch the grain bed in the Lauter tun ( 3 vessel system), Now I will rake (cut) the top third of the grain bed about half way through the sparge recirculate the the liquor and start the sparge again.Instant increase in run off efficiency.You always live and learn.
GB


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## dr K (22/8/08)

> Without a proper method of adding the sparge water to the mash thre can be huge implications for efficiency. Channeling, for instance, can dramatically reduce efficiency.


Indicating some underlying poor techniques.
I must of course, ask what a proper method of adding the sparge water to the mash is, I am well aware (doh) of my method but am curious as to whether it is proper or not.

K


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## Online Brewing Supplies (22/8/08)

dr K said:


> Indicating some underlying poor techniques.
> I must of course, ask what a proper method of adding the sparge water to the mash is, I am well aware (doh) of my method but am curious as to whether it is proper or not.
> 
> K


K I dont think that there is a prime correct method or answer.It depends on how you sparge and set your grain bed.My run off is dictated on the brew on that day.So if I get a slow run off with little extraction (tested during process) I then decide to reset the grain bed or not.In the end Im looking for best efficiency on the day with that recipe.And they do change from recipe to recipe.Big brews I always drop my efficiency back when I calculate my recipe.Either way you add yourHLT liquor you still need to watch what happening on the day and adjust.Hope this answers your question
GB


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## Zwickel (22/8/08)

why should it be a rotating thingy? a ring tube like that will do the job as well:






Im combining the two sparge systems in one batch. After first run, I refill the MLT with sparge water and stir well again, then lauter again (batch sparging), then I do fly sparge through the sparge ring, using the remaining sparge water.

Cheers :icon_cheers:


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## domonsura (23/8/08)

I took another approach towards returning liquor to the mash....






the height of the return dish is adjustable, and is pushed to just under the level of the top of the mash - no aeration, no heat loss, no disturbed mash.


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## the_fuzz (23/8/08)

domonsura said:


> I took another approach towards returning liquor to the mash....
> 
> 
> 
> ...




so dom, when is this one going to be on your site for sale


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## Frank (23/8/08)

domonsura said:


> I took another approach towards returning liquor to the mash....
> 
> 
> the height of the return dish is adjustable, and is pushed to just under the level of the top of the mash - no aeration, no heat loss, no disturbed mash.


I had the manual version of one of these, Soup Ladle held by hand.


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## domonsura (23/8/08)

Whats_Wrong_with_Hahn said:


> so dom, when is this one going to be on your site for sale



:lol:...shouldn't be too long, it only took me 2 years to get around to actually making the final version......at that rate it should be on the website by roughly 2011....:lol:......(nah, it will be on the site shortly)


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## danman (23/8/08)

dr K said:


> Nice to watch but generally next to useless, the heat loss really is quite dramatic, still for a mere $30 you have hardly overspent.
> My concern is the comment that you "had" to reduce your boil to 45 minutes, a very foolish thing to do.The magical 11% increase in efficiency though is another cause for concern as a swing of that degree indicates some underlying poor techniques.
> I note that you are from Canberra in which case you have at your very doorstep more brewing knowledge than most of the rest of the known universe can muster.
> 
> K




now kurtz,it would appear that my techniques in the past have not been that poor,as i have been obviously been doing something correct as far as my placings in our local brewing comps would suggest. i do believe that a silver and bronze respectfully in the "Brown And Stinky" category, as you affectionately named it last month, should be enough to silence the critics.... my infections are deliberate!

as for heat loss it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that increasing the water temp and positioning the sparge arm closer to the grain bed will reduce any of this so-called heat loss. i notice that no-one comments on heat loss from a copper coil or ring like in Zizzel's bling?

also if one has a lid best to be using it,to keep heat in maybe?

As T.D. said it was a change from batch to fly sparging and this method will be the new norm here. 
and as G.B. mentioned i also disturbed the top half of the grain bed half way through the sparge.

cheers for your opinions guys,dan


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## devo (23/8/08)

I've been happy with this system which a adopted from the old brewtree system.






Best thing is it has no moving parts.


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## Duff (23/8/08)

kook said:


> I was always under the impression that a lot of heat was lost with these whirlygig sparge arms, hence why people stopped using them?
> 
> The water supposedly cools as it falls through the air. It would be easy to test though, by measuring the temp of the water exiting the HLT, then measuring the temp of the water ontop of the mash.



I used one for a couple of years and placed a towel over the top of the arm and mash tun to keep in the heat. The base of the sparge arm and top of the sparge water over the grain bed were pretty close so there was not much heat lost. They are useful for big beers where a slow sparge is useful (for me anyway) but for now I batch.


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## T.D. (23/8/08)

dr K said:


> Indicating some underlying poor techniques.
> I must of course, ask what a proper method of adding the sparge water to the mash is, I am well aware (doh) of my method but am curious as to whether it is proper or not.
> 
> K



By "proper method" I just mean adding the sparge water evenly and gently so as to not disturb the grain bed too much (a little bit isn't abig deal) and promote an even extraction. Of course, this is also highly dependent on having an effective false bottom.


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