# Victoria's Secret: Where to buy?



## kahlerisms

HI All,

Looking over the GABF Hop Jockey recipe, it's the first one I've come across that calls for Victoria's Secret hops. My usual merchants don't stock them - anyone able to recommend to me either someone in Melbourne that's stocking them and/or someone that'll ship them to me?


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## carniebrew

There was some talk of these hops in the thread over the weekend regarding Dr Smurto's Golden Ale. The doc grows Victoria hops himself, and they don't appear to be available commercially. Read here.


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## bum

Are Victoria and Victoria's Secret the same hop? I can't find any reference online to them being the same thing.


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## carniebrew

I thought Victoria's Secret hops were just Victoria hops wearing a g-string??


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## tiprya

Its an unreleased variety from Hop Products Australia
http://craftypint.com/news/post/our-dark-secret/


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## kahlerisms

This seems to only say "2013". (last paragraph)

http://www.barthhaasgroup.com/johbarth/images/pdfs/HPA%20Crop%20Report%202012.pdf


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## hoppy2B

I reckon my home grown Cluster have a similar or same type of flavour to those secret ones. h34r:


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## Yob

you 'rekon' a lot of things

ed: removed picture of a horses ass


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## drsmurto

hoppy2B said:


> I reckon my home grown Cluster have a similar or same type of flavour to those secret ones. h34r:



The dwarf variety or the 'normal' ones?


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## Malted

American Dwarf Hop Association: No mention of Cluster. http://adha.us/dwarf-hops


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## hoppy2B

The dwarf ones. They grow 3 metres tall.


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## drsmurto

*face palm*


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## hoppy2B

Well, my cones look like Batz's and they matured at the same time on my second year plants. 

Face palm to you to Shmurto.


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## Yob

bum said:


> Are Victoria and Victoria's Secret the same hop? I can't find any reference online to them being the same thing.


Ive got a near certain answer here man... They dont appear to be, there are a few experiments going on currently and all that Ive heard place them as a different cultivar to Victoria.

Seems odd to have 2 plants named so close, I can assure you that what Ive been stocking is Victoria Secret not the other similarly named cultivar. (Restocking this week)

:icon_cheers:


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## drsmurto

I brewed a rye golden ale on Saturday using Victoria Secret so have some early impressions. I have a rye golden ale on tap with my homegrown Victoria so had a few pints during brewday.

Victoria Secret is nothing like the Victoria I grow.

I describe my Victoria as loquats - mango and citrus. Very smooth.

Victoria Secret is very different. Just opening the bag and having a big whiff told me that. Pungent, resinous grapefruit - reminded me a lot of US Chinook.

Each time I added the hops to the kettle I stuck my nose in and had a whiff and also had a smell and taste out of the plate chiller before pitching yeast. Grapefruit. I'm happy with early tastes.

At 17.2% AA I was able to use a 1.5g/L addition at 15 mins to hit 30 IBU. I added a 2g/L addition at flameout.

Once I have this on tap I can do a side by side taste test although my rye Victoria golden ale was kegged a few weeks ago.


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## punkin

Now you tell me after i bought a kilo


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## Yob

some tripples on the way Punkin?


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## punkin

Eh?


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## Yob

rephrase.. some large batches? with near a kg of those hops, I expect they will last you some time? If doc's weights come out as a good indicator then looking at what, approx 90g per 20lt batch size? (unless my sleepy brain still no do mathsy so good)

ed: Coffee has suggested it's 70g 

either way, looking forward to your feedback on them when you use them as well mate. 

:beer:


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## punkin

AAhh sorry, yes i do 84l batches. I'm a guzzler, not a beer/food pairer 


Will certainly be happy to feedback.


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## punkin

A lb doesn't go so far with me. Just chopped up the bag (mmmmso much sticky goodness on the empty vac pac i want to boil it) into 50 gms to dry hop a cube of ipa that's ready for it and a quad batch of smash to try it out today...



> *Vic secret Smash* (American Pale Ale)
> 
> Original Gravity (OG): 1.054 (°P): 13.3
> Final Gravity (FG): 1.011 (°P): 2.8
> Alcohol (ABV): 5.66 %
> Colour (SRM): 5.2 (EBC): 10.3
> Bitterness (IBU): 37.4 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)
> 
> 100% Pale Ale Malt
> 
> 2.1 g/L Victoria's Secret (17.2% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil)
> 1.2 g/L Victoria's Secret (17.2% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)
> 
> 
> Single step Infusion at 66°C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes
> 
> Fermented at 20°C with Safale US-05
> 
> 
> Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*


So that's a single addition of 180 gms at flameout (no chill) in an 84l batch and 100 gms over 4 cubes for dry hop.

Left me with a little vac pac of 120gms, lucky i bought another pound too.


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## drsmurto

37 IBU from a flameout addition? :huh:


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## bum

No-chilled, remember.

If you're questioning the appropriateness of doing that rather than the possibility then please disregard.


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## punkin

If your questioning anything about it please go ahead. i'm learning to brew beer and can use all the help i can get. 

My main love is hop flavour and aroma and i seem to get that without the massive bitterness with late additions. I have found that when i'm no chilling that my method of whirlpooloing, cubeing ect gives me an approximation of a 20 min addition bittering wise without the no chill button checked as it does at flameout with the button checked.

If there is something wrong with doing it that way, i'm honestly all ears.


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## drsmurto

The no chill thread is where this discussion sits best but yes, I am a little miffed as to why anyone thinks you could get 37 IBU from a flameout addition even with such a high AA% hop.

I've got a rye golden ale crash chilling at the moment using this hop and with a 15 min addition of 1.5g/L aiming for only 30 IBU it tastes about right. I also added a 2g/L flameout addition so only marginally less than Punkins. I did chill it (as always) but the chilling process starts 15-20 mins post flameout.


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## manticle

Miffed or baffled DS?

Got some of these hops from yob so aiming for a single hop apa/aipa type thing.

Probably maris and a touch of crystal and biscuit, half the IBU from a 60 and the remainder from small additions every 5 mins post 20 mins. Hopefully knock it out this coming weekend.


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## Nick JD

DrSmurto said:


> The no chill thread is where this discussion sits best but yes, I am a little miffed as to why anyone thinks you could get 37 IBU from a flameout addition even with such a high AA% hop.
> 
> I've got a rye golden ale crash chilling at the moment using this hop and with a 15 min addition of 1.5g/L aiming for only 30 IBU it tastes about right. I also added a 2g/L flameout addition so only marginally less than Punkins. I did chill it (as always) but the chilling process starts 15-20 mins post flameout.


I've been looking for some info on this topic too regarding BrewMate's no-chill function. Your 20 minute long flameout additions are imparting a LOT of bitterness, apparently...

Check this out:

*0 Min APA*
American Pale Ale

*Recipe Specs*
----------------
Batch Size (L): 20.0
Total Grain (kg): 5.200
Total Hops (g): 60.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.058 (°P): 14.3
Final Gravity (FG): 1.015 (°P): 3.8
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 5.70 %
Colour (SRM): 8.3 (EBC): 16.3
Bitterness (IBU): 39.3 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

*Grain Bill*
----------------
5.000 kg Pale Ale Malt (96.15%)
0.200 kg Caramunich III (3.85%)

*Hop Bill*
----------------
10.0 g Chinook Pellet (12.5% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.5 g/L)
40.0 g Citra Pellet (13.5% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (2 g/L)
10.0 g Galaxy Pellet (13.4% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil) (0.5 g/L)

*Misc Bill*
----------------

Single step Infusion at 66°C for 90 Minutes.
Fermented at 18°C with Wyeast 1272 - American Ale II


Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*


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## Florian

DrSmurto said:


> The no chill thread is where this discussion sits best but yes, I am a little miffed as to why anyone thinks you could get 37 IBU from a flameout addition even with such a high AA% hop.


Even further off topic (but on topic to your post), I have done a few Pilsners with a single cube addition of Stella. No hops in the kettle at all, not even flame out. Estimated somewhere around 30 IBU and very tasty.

EDIT: Have also done one with old-ish Saaz plugs, 150g into cube, not so tasty, but _very_ bitter.


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## bum

I've made some very high IBU (perceived) IPAs with high FGs with cube hops only. I also tend to cube from 80c and below (whirlpool temp related). No IBU from 0 min additions is complete rubbish as far as I am concerned.


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## tricache

_Slightly _OT but has anyone noticed the ad on the first page of this thread...good indication of where to buy Victoria's Secret and also free shipping! :lol:


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## drsmurto

Re: Cube additions. Is what you are perceiving actual IBUs due to the isomerisation of alpha acids or a slight astringency that can be perceived as bitterness from leaving vegetal matter in contact with a liquid for an extended period?


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## bum

I won't say there is none of that going on but I believe I could tell the difference between IBU bitterness and astringent bitterness up at IIPA levels. The bitterness is very beer-like (whatever that might mean).

Having said that, I have purchased a plate chiller just for this style of beer so we'll see how my opinion changes once I get a chance to use it.


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## Nick JD

tricache said:


> _Slightly _OT but has anyone noticed the ad on the first page of this thread...good indication of where to buy Victoria's Secret and also free shipping! :lol:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vs.jpg


_coughcough-adblocker-coughcough _


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## tricache

Nick JD said:


> _coughcough-adblocker-coughcough _


coughcough-*chromeuser*-coughcough :lol:


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## punkin

Off topic it may be but following the natural flow of the converstion...

I currently have this on one of my taps, all additions are at flameout. I don't know if it's 53 ibu, but i'm comfortable with bitterness up to 36 ibu or so not producing a beer that is noticeably bitter to me.

This beer IS noticeably bitter, and in the IPA range of commercial beers i've had. There has been no appreciable amounts of vegetal matter in the cube as it was left in the whirlpool.


*10 min ipa no chill1* (American IPA)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.050 (°P): 12.4
Final Gravity (FG): 1.011 (°P): 2.8
Alcohol (ABV): 5.11 %
Colour (SRM): 5.5 (EBC): 10.8
Bitterness (IBU): 53.0 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)

87% Pale Ale Malt
8% Wheat Malt
5% Caramalt

2.3 g/L Amarillo (8.2% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil)
3.9 g/L Centennial (8.3% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil)


Single step Infusion at 67°C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 20°C with Safale US-05


I trust brew mates no chill button in the way that i use it. That's either using the hops at flameout or at 10mins, the ibu doesn't change all that much.

I used to chill with an immersion chiller that took a good 45 mins or more before i cubed, so have used the program two ways. I have a very good plate chiller and will be splitting batches into two fermenters and two cubes on occasion soon as i get my a into g and set it up.


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## manticle

*Type:* All grain *Size:* 22 liters *Color:* 11 HCU (~8 SRM)




*Bitterness:* 49 IBU
*OG:* 1.058 *FG:* 1.010
*Alcohol:* 6.2% v/v (4.9% w/w)
*Grain:* 5.5kg maris
100g aromatic
100g biscuit
100g British crystal 95-115L
*Mash: *70% efficiency,
TEMP: 55/64/7/78
TIME: 5/45/10/10
*Boil:* 90 minutes SG 1.040 32 liters
*Hops:* 15g Victoria's Secret (17.5% AA, 60 min.)
5g Victoria's Secret (17.5% AA, 20 min.)
5g Victoria's Secret (17.5% AA, 15 min.)
5g Victoria's Secret (17.5% AA, 10 min.)
5g Victoria's Secret (aroma)


Roughly the recipe I will brew this weekend with an additional 5g at 5 mins and 20g Dry.

Some gypsum and cal chloride to mash and boil.

1272 or denny's favourite


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## drsmurto

Kegged and carbed the rye Victoria Secret Golden Ale last night. Still needs a tad more carbonation and will clear up over time but that didn't stopped me having a taste.

Picture shows the 2 rye golden ales on tap - homegrown Victoria on the left, Victoria Secret on the right. The only difference between the 2 is the hops and if I was getting technical, yeast cell count albeit with the same strain (I split a yeastcake in two by eye :blink: ). Well..... I only used the Victoria secret for late additions as that is all I needed to get the same IBU. The Victoria version has a small 60 min bittering addition so that is another difference. The homegrown Victoria has been on tap for 4 weeks now so not as fresh but the hop flavour and aroma is still there.

They are different but the differences I perceived when smelling the hops flowers and the unhopped wort are no longer as apparent. The Victoria Secret is a bit more grapefruit than the Victoria but they both have a mango quality.

Maybe Wy1272 is dulling it a tad and US05 might enhance the differences. It could also just be the lower carbonation and once the VS version hits the same carbonation more of the aroma will come through. I'll brew a more heavily late hopped beer soon although stouts and porters are dominating my to brew list.

Regardless, this is a very nice hop. I'd use it more often if I didn't get 1kg of Victoria (dry) from my plantation this season!


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## Yob

Nice one Doc!!

With a review like this I'm surprised the hop isnt more widely available.


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## punkin

Started drinking an IPA dry hopped with the Victorias Secret yesterday. First impressions aren't as favourable as Doc's.

This hop at this concentration (50gms in a 20l batch) gives me a perfume flavour that i don't like. It's like the flavour you'd get (when i used to smoke) if you asked a girl for a cigarette and she got the packet out of her handbag.
That pervasive perfume flavour.

I'm terrible when it comes to picking out scents or flavours and unless it whacked me up the side of the head i'd be lucky to pick mango, but some of the descriptions i have no chance with.

This is all i've got :unsure:

I'm looking forward to fermenting a cube of the smash next week to get a better picture.

Sorry for the uncertain review, can only say it as i see it, but at this stage it won't be one i'll be chasing again. I'm hoping i'll like it more with a better example. Could be that it's just clashed with the Amarillo or Centenial.


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## punkin

I said i'd post back when my SMaSH was on tap.

I force carbed and i'm drinking it early but the results are clear for me. 

Not my favourite hop.
The perfume thing is still there, not like it was as harsh with the dry hop only in the IPA, but still pervasive.

Ladies perfume kinda taste. Not repulsive, but not to my taste either. I'll probably use the rest of what i have up as bittering additions (should be good at such high AA) in recipes that use fruity hops like Ross's Summer Ale etc.


Nothing wrong with them, just not my favourite.


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## Khellendros13

Grabbed this from Grain and Grape a few weeks ago.

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/19476/88705/?ba=heygeebee

I liked it, definitely got some spiciness. When are you getting some of this in Yob?


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## Yob

Had it in mate, at least the flowers, May kook at pellet version in a few weeks


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## Khellendros13

Yob said:


> Had it in mate, at least the flowers, May kook at pellet version in a few weeks


Well you didn't have it after I had that beer! Complex enough for a single hop beer for sure.


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## punkin

I have a pound of flowers in the freezer that came from Yob i'd happilly pass on for the cost plus postage.


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## brianman

My Summer hop pack arrived today, with a bonus Vic Secret 14.7% pack, thanks YOB. The Summer is going in a single hop Creamy Ale, what to use the Secret in?. My Golden Ale, i bitter with Galaxy to 10-11IBU, 28gms Amarillo @ 20 & 5min, total 26IBU & 4.5%ABV. Might drop the Galaxy to 6gm and add 1/2-1g/lt Summer dry hop, sound alright?. Don't want the perceived bitterness too high.


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## aussiebrewer

Only just jumping in on this thread now, is there anyone besides the Doc that is now getting good results with vic secret. I have a basic golden ale the 1st of my new brewery and did a smash of just vic secret. Mind you i did add 60min 20min and flame out additions as i did not read this thread before. The beer is drinkable but not really nice. Pretty much just keen again to start up the chatter.


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## Spiesy

I've brewed a few Pale Ales with Vic Secret, often mixed with other hops such as Cascade, Galaxy, Amarillo and Citra - very nice. My favourite was the brew that featured my home grown Cascade flowers and Vic Secret.


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## Yob

Commercially, try the boatrocker SMASH (which isn't a SMASH BTW) it uses Vic secret with galaxy and cascade. 

Like spiesy, I've used it with friends in pale ales and makes for a nice summer quaffer, it's one of those 'a little goes a long way' sort of hops so small additions are better than a big hit


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## menoetes

Yob said:


> it's one of those 'a little goes a long way' sort of hops so small additions are better than a big hit


+1 to that.

It's great hop though, I've loved it since I had it in the single hop IPA that Bridge Road released in their hop school pack back at Christmas.

I treat it much the same as it's sister-hop Galaxy as it shares similar properties, only small additions until the last 10 minutes or so of the boil. Then you can drop in a big hit if you really want it.


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