# My First Cider Down



## slapbass351 (27/5/11)

Hi folks

Just put my first cider down and thought i'd put my recipe on here for reference for myself and others.



Kick in the nuts Cider FRI 27/05/2011​800 Grams of Brewcraft malt/corn syrup/lactose blend kit added to 2 litres of boiling water, then Aerated juice. Juice consisted of: 9 Litres of Just juice 50/50 Apple and Pear, 9 Litres of Home brand Apple and Black Currant, 2.4 Litres of Mr. Juicy Apple/strawberry/Guava (all juice sugar and preservative free) 25 Grams of Wine sweetener was added also. S-04 Yeast was pitched at 22 degrees with an SG reading of 1.052 in a 24 Litre wort.

Should be interesting! Beginning to think I should have used another yeast, but this was all the stupid LHBS had!

Will keep you posted how it goes.


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## InCider (27/5/11)

That yeast will be fine - this will be the first of many cider batches D+B=H. Keep us posted on how it goes. Ferment at 18 or lower too!


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## slapbass351 (27/5/11)

Thanks mate, i have the fermenter in the coolest room in the house it sits on about 22 during the day and goes down to 18 over night. I dont have any temp controll so this is the best i can do. Would a wet towel help for during the day?


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## dcx3 (27/5/11)

Try the bath mate, throw in a few ice packs and you should be o.k.


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## hendog88 (27/5/11)

hey is the wine sweetener known by another name? or just wine sweetener?

ive just kegged by first cider. is a little dry. did try some with a shot of apple juice as others have mentioned.

wouldnt mind trying some of that for the next cider i put down.

cheers!


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## slapbass351 (27/5/11)

It's actually called wine sweetener, made by brewcraft. All it says on the label is that its a non-fermentable sweetener and it comes in a 50g pack, it says to use 1g per 1 litre so i tipped approximately half the contents in to the 23 litre wort. Its ingredients are (Sodium Cyclamate), I'm realy not sure what effect it will have on the cider but i'll be sure to let you know how it tastes, i'll bottle it next weekend.


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## adniels3n (27/5/11)

Just came in from the shed after putting a cider down myself. All Berri 2.4L juices. 2x Apple/Blackcurrant & 7 Apple/Pear with Craftbrewer Cider yeast. OG was 1047 so I bumped it up with a bit of good ole white sugar to 1051. Threw in 250g Lactose too. Maybe that's what wine sweetener is??


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## hendog88 (27/5/11)

hmmm... have heard of lactose being used to sweeten things up, some advise against it. comes down to personal preference i suppose.
dont think it would be the wine sweetener that D+B=H speaks of.. a quick google search brought up lead acetate, which as the name sounds has been banned from use as it was suspected of lead poisoning people. the other that came up was Sodium sacharrine. ill ask at the LHBS when im there next unless some1 else on here can shed some light on this.

i followed the advice i read on here and used apple and pear juice. i dont think it made a huge difference from other straight apple brews ive done in the past. maybe next time ill use some lactose. see how we go with that. im all about experimenting anyway!


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## slapbass351 (28/5/11)

I'm not very farmiliar with any brewing ingredients, i just did as much research as i could a threw one together, and i'll hope for the best! There's plenty of action in the fermenter though, even after 8 hours, lots of farting in the bottom going on. I dont have an airlock so i'll only realy know whats going on with samples and grav readings. Thanks for all the info guys, i'll keep you posted and might even get a few photo's up later.

I'm going to feel like a bit of a pansy though drinking a pinky purply colored drink! Might have to just drink it out of the stubs.


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## InCider (28/5/11)

Don't feel like pansy D+B=H, the wine sweetner - it's banned in the US, so you can feel tough as nails! :lol: 

I took this from Wikipedia:




> *Sodium cyclamate* is an artificial sweetener. It is 3050 times sweeter than sugar (depending on concentration; it is not a linear relationship), making it the least potent of the commercially used artificial sweeteners. Some people find it to have an unpleasant aftertaste, but, in general, less so than saccharin or acesulfame potassium. It is often used synergistically with other artificial sweeteners, especially saccharin; the mixture of 10 parts cyclamate to 1 part saccharin is common and masks the off-tastes of both sweeteners.[_citation needed_] It is less expensive than most sweeteners, including sucralose, and is stable under heating.
> 
> 
> *Status*
> ...


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## slapbass351 (28/5/11)

I picked this stuff up in the LHBS because i heard it was hard to make cider a little on the sweeter side, Hopefully it wont leave any sweetener after taste or cancer!


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## Greg.L (28/5/11)

Damo + Beer = Happy said:


> I dont have an airlock so i'll only realy know whats going on with samples and grav readings. Thanks for all the info guys, i'll keep you posted and might even get a few photo's up later.



Hmmm. maybe you should get an airlock, oxidation spoilage is the commonest way to lose a batch of cider or wine.

By the way cidermaking is NOT brewing.


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## thelastspud (29/5/11)

Greg.L said:


> By the way cidermaking is NOT brewing.




So, whats the right word then?


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## felten (29/5/11)

vintnering?


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## Screwtop (29/5/11)

Damo + Beer = Happy said:


> I picked this stuff up in the LHBS because i heard it was hard to make cider a little on the sweeter side, Hopefully it wont leave any sweetener after taste or cancer!




FG of any wort/must is dependent upon attenuation. High attenuating yeast = dry (low FG) finish, Low Attenuating yeast = sweet (high FG) finish. Yeast choice is what it's all about when it comes to sweetness/dryness and flavour. Different yeast strains will impart different flavours.

Use Champagne Yeast and you will end up with a champagne flavour/aroma/breadiness and it will be so dry you'll fart soot. Use maybe an ale yeast like S-04 at around 72% attenuation and a 1.052 gravity must will end up at around 1.012. Formula FG = OG-(OGx72%) 

Since some sweetener has been added the gravity will be higher if the sweetener is an unfermentable sugar, or the same gravity and will just taste sweeter if it's artificial sweetener.

Screwy


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## Greg.L (29/5/11)

Screwtop said:


> FG of any wort/must is dependent upon attenuation. High attenuating yeast = dry (low FG) finish, Low Attenuating yeast = sweet (high FG) finish. Yeast choice is what it's all about when it comes to sweetness/dryness and flavour. Different yeast strains will impart different flavours.
> 
> Use Champagne Yeast and you will end up with a champagne flavour/aroma/breadiness and it will be so dry you'll fart soot. Use maybe an ale yeast like S-04 at around 72% attenuation and a 1.052 gravity must will end up at around 1.012. Formula FG = OG-(OGx72%)
> 
> ...



I don't think you would ever get a cider to stop at 1.012 unless its very low in nutrients. Normal cider will ferment pretty dry whatever yeast you use. Admittedly some will be drier than others but you can't rely on much natural sweetness, unless you chill, keg and force carbonate, then drink fairly soon. If you ever bottled a cider at 1.012 you would get bottle bombs.


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## slapbass351 (29/5/11)

I'm hoping the other fruits in the juice will keep a little more sweetness, strawberry, black currant etc. I'll deffinately let the yeast finish right out before i bottle. I think i'll bottle as i normaly do in long necks, should i prime with 2 carb drops as i do with my beer?

I must say there is lots of action in the fermenter, looks like theres a war in progress!

Anyone seen the new coopers fermenters with the loose lid, it just sits in place and has no air lock, i'm now not sure if this is a good design. I think i like my older coopers one with the screw on lid that seals tight better, any thoughts on this?


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## Screwtop (29/5/11)

Greg.L said:


> I don't think you would ever get a cider to stop at 1.012 unless its very low in nutrients. Normal cider will ferment pretty dry whatever yeast you use. Admittedly some will be drier than others but you can't rely on much natural sweetness, unless you chill, keg and force carbonate, then drink fairly soon. If you ever bottled a cider at 1.012 you would get bottle bombs.



Maybe the fermentability of the juice but I frequently make cider using 22L of Aldi pres free juice. S-o4 ferment for 2 or three weeks finishes around 1.010 US-05 finished around 1.007.

Screwy


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## bconnery (29/5/11)

Greg.L said:


> By the way cidermaking is NOT brewing.


Incider, I hope you are taking note of this. Make some beer!


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## Greg.L (29/5/11)

Screwtop said:


> Maybe the fermentability of the juice but I frequently make cider using 22L of Aldi pres free juice. S-o4 ferment for 2 or three weeks finishes around 1.010 US-05 finished around 1.007.
> 
> Screwy



Do you bottle at that sg? Naturally sweet cider is a holy grail for some cidermakers. Most people find it very difficult. I am happy to drink dry cider myself so I don't worry about it, but have not heard of any other cidermakers who have managed it reliably without pasteurising or keeving.


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## slapbass351 (4/6/11)

Ok, its 8 days in and smells and tastes great, its still sweet but its still fermenting out. The gravity is now at 1.010.
I'm going to leave this till saturday or sunday next week which will make a 14 or 15 day fermentation then bottle.


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