# WYeast Smack Pack question...



## slcmorro (6/5/14)

Hi guys,

I used WYeast 3638 in my Hefeweizen, and it's the first time I've used a smack pack. It's got a manufacture date of 14/03/14 so I'd assume that's considered relatively fresh in the grand scheme of things.

I had the pack in the fridge up until the morning after I brewed (no-chill is a wonderful thing!) and smacked in yesterday morning before work. It was about 10c in the house while we were both out at work, and I came home at 5:30 to find it had swollen a little, but not heaps. So about 8-9 hrs it sat at 10c on the sink, doing it's thing. I'm thinking that because it was so cold, it stalled more than it usually would?

Anyways, I pitched it into my FV and dumped the cube on top. It's hard to say, but I reckon there was only maybe 30ml (shot glass) of liquid in the entire pack. 

My questions are;

1 - Did the lower temp during 'incubation' affect the swelling of the pack (I know it's not an indicator of bad yeast, I was just expecting a swollen bubble)
2 - Does the volume of yeast sound about right?

I've had the FV in my ferm chamber for just over 12 hrs now at 20c, and there's no sign of activity as yet.


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## manticle (6/5/14)

Normally you should take it out of the fridge and allow it to come up to room temp before smacking. Allow it to warm up a tad (I know that's hard in the arctic, I mean Ballarat) and give it a shake. Leave 1/2 day per month from date of manufacture, pitch into well oxygenated starter wort.

I then pitch when active - many people do the whole ferment out, chill, decant thing but I prefer active yeast. My starter wort is always identical to my intended brewing wort (again, different from many).


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## slcmorro (6/5/14)

1/2 day per month of manufacture sounds interesting. I've never read that anywhere before. Cheers


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## TidalPete (6/5/14)

Next time around why not consider leaving the smackpack & cube in your fermentation chamber at 20 to warm up before smacking then pitching when ready?
Agree with manticle about an "active" starter although my method is somewhat different. Agree also with maximum aeration of the wort.

That half a day per month from date of manufacture does sound interesting & will remember this advice although I rarely smack the pack, preferring instead to split into tubes then build up. Thanks manticle.


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## Black n Tan (6/5/14)

manticle said:


> Normally you should take it out of the fridge and allow it to come up to room temp before smacking


What is the reason behind that? I always smack them straight out of the fridge.


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## GalBrew (6/5/14)

Black n Tan said:


> What is the reason behind that? I always smack them straight out of the fridge.


Yeast don't really work that well at 40C. If you allow them to warm up the smack pack will swell much faster once activated.


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## manticle (6/5/14)

> What is the reason behind that? I always smack them straight out of the fridge.


treating them gently, with love to allow them to acclimatise to their environment. I always take out dry yeast and let it get to room temp before opening (rarely use dry but when I do) and I believe rehydrating practice calls for similar.


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## Black n Tan (6/5/14)

I get the dry yeast recommendation but I am a little unconvinced that warming liquid yeast before smacking offers any advantage. btw I thank each yeast individually when they clock on so that's a lot of love and a little time consuming to be frank


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## verysupple (6/5/14)

slcmorro said:


> <snip>
> 
> Anyways, I pitched it into my FV and dumped the cube on top. It's hard to say, but I reckon there was only maybe 30ml (shot glass) of liquid in the entire pack.
> 
> ...


Unless you got a dud pack, which is unlikely, there should have been ~125 mL as stated on the pack. That small amount is going to look like bugger all if you tip it into a fermentor, though, so it was probably the right amount.

By the way, you shouldn't expect there to be more than 125 mL because smacking only gives the yeast a bit of nutrient to start their metabolism (kind of like waking them up), it's not enough to give any noticeable growth.


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## jaypes (6/5/14)

slcmorro said:


> Anyways, I pitched it into my FV and dumped the cube on top. It's hard to say, but I reckon there was only maybe 30ml (shot glass) of liquid in the entire pack.


Did you shake the hell out of it before pitching? You may have pitched the nutrient/wort and left the slurry.


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## GalBrew (6/5/14)

Black n Tan said:


> I get the dry yeast recommendation but I am a little unconvinced that warming liquid yeast before smacking offers any advantage. btw I thank each yeast individually when they clock on so that's a lot of love and a little time consuming to be frank


Both Wyeast and White Labs recommend letting the yeast warm up before use.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (6/5/14)

manticle said:


> treating them gently, with love to allow them to acclimatise to their environment.


It may be nice but not necessary, may as well have them warm up with the nutrient.
Smack when ever you like but I do mine cold and have no problems.
Nev


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## Black n Tan (6/5/14)

GalBrew said:


> Both Wyeast and White Labs recommend letting the yeast warm up before use.


My question purely related to whether the pack needs to be at room temperature before smacking not before pitching.I smack straight out of the fridge and then incubate on the bench before pitching. The Wyeast instructions just say to smack and the incubate at 21-23C: I don't see any mention of warming to room temp before smacking. Just seems easier to smack it straight out the fridge and then let incubate on the bench, rather than adding a step that may be unnecessary. If there is a good reason I will change my practice.


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## manticle (6/5/14)

To be honest, it's something I've always seen as good practice but I doubt it makes a huge difference in the scheme of things.

Suits my process because I take it out when mashing, smack it when boiling and pitch into my starter wort a day or so later. It takes maybe an hour to warm up and I don't need to do anything to make it happen.

If your yeast seems happy and your beer is working out as you want, I wouldn't be in a rush to change things. Thought it might assist OP since his seems slower than expected and at 9 degrees, I'm not surprised.


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## Black n Tan (6/5/14)

manticle said:


> To be honest, it's something I've always seen as good practice but I doubt it makes a huge difference in the scheme of things.
> 
> Suits my process because I take it out when mashing, smack it when boiling and pitch into my starter wort a day or so later. It takes maybe an hour to warm up and I don't need to do anything to make it happen.
> 
> If your yeast seems happy and your beer is working out as you want, I wouldn't be in a rush to change things. Thought it might assist OP since his seems slower than expected and at 9 degrees, I'm not surprised.


Thanks for the clarification. I can see how that suits your process.


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## manticle (6/5/14)

> 1/2 day per month of manufacture sounds interesting. I've never read that anywhere before. Cheers


Just some advice given to me by John Preston when I bought my first ever smack pack.


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## slcmorro (6/5/14)

Yeah, I poured it right into the fermenter and then splashed the cube on top of it. I actually did have the cube in the ferm chamber at 20c, so that hopefully didn't shock the yeast too much? Approx 12c in the pack and 20c wort being poured onto it?


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## Online Brewing Supplies (6/5/14)

The closer your starter is to wort temp the better but all ways better to pitch into slightly warmer wort than colder.


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## Yob (6/5/14)

Thermal shock can be an issue, I try to keep transfer within about 4'c,read that ~10'c ain't great for the beasties.


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## slcmorro (6/5/14)

So this is what it looks like now, just over 24 hrs later. Currently sitting at precisely 20c in there...





Concerned that it's not rolling off it's tits, to be honest. No krausen on top or anything like that.


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## TidalPete (6/5/14)

Packing tape isn't a good insulator IMHO. Perhaps some decent insulation over that probe will give you a better indication of the actual wort temp?
Not being smart here. Just saying.


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## Vini2ton (6/5/14)

I used to keep aquariums. I use the same principles of temp change with yeast as i did with fish plants etc. don,t shock.


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## slcmorro (6/5/14)

I'm not overly concerned by the packing tape and the reading I'm getting. A digital thermometer in the fridge indicates the temp is 19.7c. My concern is more about the lack of visual activity of the yeast.


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## ricardo (6/5/14)

maybe wrong but does it not say on the back of the pack to leave at ambient temp for a few hours before smacking?

Regarding the pack not swelling, I had one do this that was 2 weeks old and the reason was that only one of the nutrient packs inside burst open


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## Black n Tan (6/5/14)

ricardo said:


> maybe wrong but does it not say on the back of the pack to leave at ambient temp for a few hours before smacking?


No it doesn't. It says smack, shake and then incubate at 21-24C for 3 or more hours.


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## slcmorro (6/5/14)

slcmorro said:


> So about 8-9 hrs it sat at 10c on the sink,


That was ambient.


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## manticle (6/5/14)

Put a beanie on it mate.
Then go outside and build a snowman. Bloody ice city you live in.


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## slcmorro (6/5/14)

Thanks Manticle, I'll do just that 

But in all seriousness, the pic I posted... should I be concerned that there's no activity? I'm leaning towards yes.


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## Camo6 (6/5/14)

slcmorro said:


> That was ambient.


There's your problem. Your yeast is frigid. Try stroking it's inner thighs for a bit.


I wouldn't stress too much yet slc. Give it another 24 hrs before you consider pitching backup yeast. By the sound of it the pack wasn't old and it had started to swell. You just tried to prove it at a lower temp than the strain prefers. It might not be the best beer you've made but I reckon it'll still fire up on its own.


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## Black n Tan (6/5/14)

slcmorro said:


> That was ambient.


Put it in your fermenting fridge :unsure:


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## Yob (6/5/14)

Stir it


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## slcmorro (7/5/14)

Well, it has a krausen - yay!

Bit annoyed it took a while to kick off, but then again what I did wasn't best practice by the sounds of things. Will see how it tastes before I sook up. On another note though, I'll hopefully have a big nice healthy yeast cake from which to harvest more from for next time!


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