# Corny Keg Unrefigerated Storage?



## iralosavic (28/10/11)

I'm trying to get my head around kegging using cornelius kegs instead of bottling.

My understanding is that with bottling, you transfer the fermented wort into the bottle with the addition of a priming sugar and leave it at "cellar" tempuratures for as long as you really want. 

Can you store beer siphoned into a corny keg in an unrefrigerated climate and force carbonate it ready for consumption a few months later? I understand you can also use priming sugar in Corny kegs, but I have no idea how long you can leave the keg before consumption nor whether or not refigeration is necessary to prevent it going rancid.

I really want to be able to create a stored supply of beer that I can draw upon when wanted, like you can do with bottling, but I really like the idea of using a single vessle per batch (ie kegging)!


Cheers,


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## loikar (28/10/11)

iralosavic said:


> I'm trying to get my head around kegging using cornelius kegs instead of bottling.
> 
> My understanding is that with bottling, you transfer the fermented wort into the bottle with the addition of a priming sugar and leave it at "cellar" tempuratures for as long as you really want.
> 
> ...



Think of Kegs as big bottles. 
You can store it in the keg for as long as a bottle.
The only difference is you cant force carb a batch of beer in bottles.
you can naturally carb a keg as you would a bottle.

BF


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## DU99 (28/10/11)

once you carb up a keg..the contents are under pressure and air cannot get into the keg,unless you have bad seals..i natural prime my keg with about 56g of dextrose and wont use them till i need to change the empty keg


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## mckenry (28/10/11)

iralosavic said:


> I'm trying to get my head around kegging using cornelius kegs instead of bottling.
> 
> My understanding is that with bottling, you transfer the fermented wort into the bottle with the addition of a priming sugar and leave it at "cellar" tempuratures for as long as you really want.
> 
> ...



Just to point out a few nuances. Force carbonating works on cold beer (far better) Natural carbonating (priming sugar) works better on room temp beer.


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## iralosavic (28/10/11)

Excellent. One of the reasons is I don't have a fridge in which to store kegs yet and I also won't have the cash to purchase an oxygen tank for a couple of months, so I figure I could spend the meantime letting some beer come to age.


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## .DJ. (28/10/11)

iralosavic said:


> Excellent. One of the reasons is I don't have a fridge in which to store kegs yet and I also won't have the cash to purchase an *oxygen* tank for a couple of months, so I figure I could spend the meantime letting some beer come to age.



I hope you mean Carbon Dioxide!


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## iralosavic (28/10/11)

Yes! I mean Carbon Dioxide. I keep calling them oxygen tanks because they remind me of the old oxy/acetylene tanks I used to use for welding.

So if you are planning on force carbonating, can you store the beer in a cellar climate in a Cornelius keg without force carbonating it and then do so a couple of months later?

My understanding is that you should really keep the Corny connected to pressurised c02 from the time you begin force carbonating until you put it on tap and that it should be refigerated meanwhile.


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## loikar (28/10/11)

iralosavic said:


> So if you are planning on force carbonating, can you store the beer in a cellar climate in a Cornelius keg without force carbonating it and then do so a couple of months later?
> 
> My understanding is that you should really keep the Corny connected to pressurised c02 from the time you begin force carbonating until you put it on tap and that it should be refigerated meanwhile.



Not true.

if you're going to leave them for a few months, just naturally carb them.
use half the amount of priming sugar you'd use for bottles.
however, when you fill them, hit them with some c02 from the bottle and burp the keg to get the oxygen out.
then all you need to do it chuck it straight into the fridge to get it cold, pour the first pint or so of murk out and you'll be good to go.

if you still want to carb it from the Co2 bottle, leave it for a couple of weeks under pressure to get your desired Co2 volumes, disconnect it and then store it away.

once you hit your desired Co2 Volume, there's no need to keep pressure on the keg unless it has a leak.

BF


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## Dazza88 (28/10/11)

I just starting kegging and my kegs have been stored out of the fridge for a while - month or two, they still taste fine when used. 

Want my keezer though.


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## adryargument (28/10/11)

I fill 2-3 kegs at a time.
One normally ends up in the fridge and the other 2 i fill to 300kpa and store in a corner.

No bad tastes yet.


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## Maheel (28/10/11)

will the heat of a QLD summer bother them sitting out of the fridge ?


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## Fourstar (28/10/11)

as long as you store them in a "comfortable" temperature and temp stable area of your house at ambient, i wouldn't be too worried. especially if you are turning the kegs over within at least a few months. If you are storing in bulk a barley wine or something else big and going to be aged, in a fridge would be preferable but IMO, work with that you have got. Don't stress too much and certainly don't store them in a 50deg tin shed.


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## iralosavic (30/10/11)

BeerFingers said:


> then all you need to do it chuck it straight into the fridge to get it cold, pour the first pint or so of murk out and you'll be good to go.



Do you mean refrigerate months later just before you want to serve it?




BeerFingers said:


> use half the amount of priming sugar you'd use for bottles.



Half the amount for one long neck? Or do you multiply it to represent the equivalent quantity (ie .66L vs 18L) and then half it?




Cheers and thanks a lot for the replies


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## ianh (30/10/11)

iralosavic said:


> Do you mean refrigerate months later just before you want to serve it?
> 
> 
> Half the amount for one long neck? Or do you multiply it to represent the equivalent quantity (ie .66L vs 18L) and then half it?
> ...



Yes put in fridge before you want to serve.

Look at a bulk prime calculator. If say you were bottling 23 litres you may use 142 grams dextrose (about 2.4 vols CO2) if kegging you would use 71 grams dextrose.


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## WitWonder (30/10/11)

Fourstar said:


> Don't stress too much and certainly don't store them in a 50deg tin shed.



Seems to work for CUB ... h34r:


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## iralosavic (23/11/11)

Do you have to burp/purge the keg of oxygen to naturally carb? (I know you obviously don't with bottles, but the amount of headroom would be negligable by comparison.)

Reason I ask is the $200+ co2 cylinder is what's stopping me right now, but in a few months I'll be right to get one.


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## Pennywise (23/11/11)

Yep, you should purge the headspace of the keg with co2. I store mine at room temp and have no issues

Edit: I also like to put a bit of co2 in the keg before I fill it because I get a bit of splashing at the start of the transfer


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## benno1973 (23/11/11)

iralosavic said:


> Do you have to burp/purge the keg of oxygen to naturally carb? (I know you obviously don't with bottles, but the amount of headroom would be negligable by comparison.)
> 
> Reason I ask is the $200+ co2 cylinder is what's stopping me right now, but in a few months I'll be right to get one.



It's a good idea to purge the headspace with CO2. I remember reading (I'm sure someone can confirm or correct) that some beer bottling lines squirt a small amount of water into the bottle before capping, which encourages the beer to froth up, CO2 to come out of solution and this eesentially purges the headspace momentarily before capping the bottle. So bottles can be purged, similar to kegs.

If you don't have a cylinder now, what are you dispensing with? Just use that to clear the headspace if possible.


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## iralosavic (23/11/11)

Kaiser Soze said:


> It's a good idea to purge the headspace with CO2. I remember reading (I'm sure someone can confirm or correct) that some beer bottling lines squirt a small amount of water into the bottle before capping, which encourages the beer to froth up, CO2 to come out of solution and this eesentially purges the headspace momentarily before capping the bottle. So bottles can be purged, similar to kegs.
> 
> If you don't have a cylinder now, what are you dispensing with? Just use that to clear the headspace if possible.



Right now I have a coopers style brewing kit with 300 odd 660ml bottles. I'm trying to prepare for the move to kegging, but the outlay is hard to get by the missus. Cutting a couple $100 off the set-up cost for kegging (ie co2 cylinder) would mean I could transition immediately and then co2 it up once the first batch is ready to serve.

I suspected that purging the oxygen and pressurising the keg would be necessary, but you never know unless you ask.


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## benno1973 (23/11/11)

Ah, I see. One option would be...

...chill the beer before racking as cold as you can get. Rack the beer to the keg, put the lid on and let it slowly warm up. Burp the keg every 30 minutes or so, 4 or 5 times. CO2 dissolves more readily in cold beer, so as you let the beer warm up, it will come out of solution. The pressure will build in the headspace, mixing CO2 and air and as you burp the keg, each time you'll be forcing out some of this mix. After a few burps, the oxygen in the headspace will be much less.


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## mfeighan (23/11/11)

i dont do it, but cant you just bulk prime in the keg whilst you are waiting for the rest of your equipment?


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## stux (23/11/11)

Or just throw some dextrose water in the keg (70g) and naturally carb it. The yeast will then consume all the oxygen and carbonate your beer


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## kymba (23/11/11)

i'd be worried about my kegs not sealing, then after 2 months finding vinegars not beers :chug: 

can you get one of those bike c02 bolb chargers or something at least to seal the keg?


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## np1962 (23/11/11)

iralosavic said:


> Do you have to burp/purge the keg of oxygen to naturally carb? (I know you obviously don't with bottles, but the amount of headroom would be negligable by comparison.)
> 
> Reason I ask is the $200+ co2 cylinder is what's stopping me right now, but in a few months I'll be right to get one.


While it would be ideal to purge the air from the headspace it really isn't a necessity especially when you ar naturally carbing.
The yeast will use up the small amount of oxygen in the headspace and it won't make any bad differences in your beer.
Another reason to give the keg a shot of CO2 after filling is to ensure you have a sealed keg. If you have a leak when naturally carbing the beer the CO2 produced will escape and you will still have flat beer.
Cheers
Nige


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## iralosavic (24/11/11)

kymba said:


> i'd be worried about my kegs not sealing, then after 2 months finding vinegars not beers :chug:
> 
> can you get one of those bike c02 bolb chargers or something at least to seal the keg?




I can definitely slip a 30~g co2 charger into the immediate budget. Has anyone else used these to burp then seal corny kegs before?

How many bulbs per keg or are they efficient enough to last for a few kegs?


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## iralosavic (24/11/11)

NigeP62 said:


> While it would be ideal to purge the air from the headspace it really isn't a necessity especially when you ar naturally carbing.
> The yeast will use up the small amount of oxygen in the headspace and it won't make any bad differences in your beer.
> Another reason to give the keg a shot of CO2 after filling is to ensure you have a sealed keg. If you have a leak when naturally carbing the beer the CO2 produced will escape and you will still have flat beer.
> Cheers
> Nige



Thanks for that. As much as I enjoy low carbonated/creamy dark ales, I'm not a fan of completely flat beer!

For now I'm thinking that I'll naturally carb using dextrose or corn sugar (whatever's better in a keg) and use a 30g co2 charger just to pressurise the keg and test the seal.

You don't regulate the gas flow on one of those bulb chargers do yo (no need for a regulator)? It's just a full pressure blast each time you turn it on?


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## stux (24/11/11)

A quick tap on the chargers trigger should do, a full cylinder will dispense about a third of a keg. I'd estimate you could seal 5 kegs off one bulb. But I'm not so sure if it's safe to leave a charger connected to a pierced cylinder and not to a keg


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## kymba (24/11/11)

see here http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=39299


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## iralosavic (24/11/11)

kymba said:


> see here http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=39299



Thanks for that. THe point about leaving a pierced cyl connected while not in use wasn't addressed in the thread, but you would think they they would be designed for multi-use. Even the smaller 8g ones provide plenty of gas to pump bicycle tyres up 50 times over, so it would seem highly wasteful if you couldn't leave a pierced cyldiner connected. I'm applying logic, not science though, which can often lead to disaster


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## maark (23/1/12)

Interesting topic..i also would like to store beer in 50L kegs.do a heap of brews and line them up for when i am too busy to brew...How did you go with it?...
Also would the beer age,or condition if stored at room temp and ungassed? Or even gassed?...

cheers mark


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## the_new_darren (23/1/12)

You could always transfer your beer a day before it is finished fermenting Gravity 1.020. It will naturally carbonate without adding additional sugar and there will be less "sediment" in the final product.

cheers

tnd


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## the_new_darren (23/1/12)

maark said:


> Interesting topic..i also would like to store beer in 50L kegs.do a heap of brews and line them up for when i am too busy to brew...How did you go with it?...
> Also would the beer age,or condition if stored at room temp and ungassed? Or even gassed?...
> 
> cheers mark




Should be fine so long as you keep it cool. In the back shed during summer probably wont work well.

Just imagine that your keg is just a large bottle.

cheers

tnd


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## Phoney (23/1/12)

iralosavic said:


> I can definitely slip a 30~g co2 charger into the immediate budget. Has anyone else used these to burp then seal corny kegs before?
> 
> How many bulbs per keg or are they efficient enough to last for a few kegs?



I use them to dispense 9L kegs at parties.

At $5 a pop, I certainly wouldn't be using them for that purpose however!! Not when I've got a 2.6kg cylinder than I can just disconnect from my kegerator, attach to the keg, give it 10 seconds @ 300kpa and a burp, disconnect it and she's good to stow away for months. Cost = next to nothing.


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