# How To Make Vegemite



## BottleBitch

Hi All,


I saw doc's blog about making sour dough from fermenting beer and thought what could I do with that yeast cake sitting in the bottom of the fermenter, then it dawned on me, Vegemite, I can make Vegemite with it, well its the main ingredient isn't it. I have had a good look around the net for recipes and how to make Vegemite, but found nothing.

I was hoping you smart people of AHB might have some ideas on what to do? I know that it involves cooking up the yeast with salt and malt extract but thats all I have. 

Cheers and Beers 

Brett


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## dig

I'm interested in this too as I eat a truck load of the stuff and it's not cheap (I really to trowel it on...)

I suspect that caustic is involved to lyse the cells.


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## barry2

From

http://www.convictcreations.com/culture/foodwine.htm

How to make Vegemite. 

Brewer's yeast is a good source of vitamin B, but live yeast tastes boring, it is poorly digested. Inactivated yeast lacks the disadvantages, but is still bland. The inventor of vegemite solved this problem using autolysis: a process where the yeast's own enzymes break it down. 

Spent brewer's yeast is sieved to get rid of hop resins, and washed to remove bitter tastes. Then it is suspended in water at a temperature greater than 37 C with no nutrients: the yeast cells die, and vitamins and minerals leach out. Then the proteolytic (protein-splitting) enzymes take over, breaking the yeast proteins down into smaller water-soluble fragments, which also leach out. The yeast cell membrane is unruptured during this time, and can be removed by centrifuging. The clear light brown liquid is then concentrated under a vacuum to a thick paste (the vacuum helps preserve flavours and vitamin B1, thiamine). It is seasoned with salt, and a small proportion of celery and onion extracts to increase the palatability.


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## Barramundi

fellas . i work at the factory and trust me when i tell ya its not a product to be made at home its a fairly complex and involved process.. having said that i dont actually know how its made but i do know its not a simple mix and cook process


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## deadly

I think there is a thread on here about it,from the olden days of AHB.


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## BottleBitch

Barramundi said:


> fellas . i work at the factory and trust me when i tell ya its not a product to be made at home its a fairly complex and involved process.. having said that i dont actually know how its made but i do know its not a simple mix and cook process






Barra,


Brewing to looks a complex and involved process, when you look how it is made in a brewery, but you can make it using some old buckets and pots at home. I'm sure that with the right info we can make it at home, I have truck loads of yeast and I'm like Dig I eat tons of Vegemite.

So if we can get enough info I'm keen to start experimenting within the next 2 weeks, I'm thinking so far that centrifuge and a pressure cooker is all I will need.

Keep the info coming 

Cheers

Brett


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## Sammus

did anyone else read barrys post that says how to make it? Centrifuge? concentration in a vacuum? it does sound little bit more than the ingenuity of using an esky instead of a big stainless tank for a mash tun.


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## Stuster

Brett, there's an old thread on it here that has some info that should be helpful. Although I don't think Sam's been around for a while. Hmmm.


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## Gerard_M

Gerard_M said:


> OK I know a little about this but I also know not to try it in your kitchen. BBQ only!
> 
> It is best to use yeast from a beer that has had an addition of finnings.
> Don't bother washing the yeast, just run the slurry through a filter of some type. Try a mesh collander, basically remove solids.
> 
> USE AN OLD SAUCEPAN!!!!
> 
> Add salt and vege stock & bring to the boil, then allow to simmer, stirring as it reduces to a paste.
> 
> I had a customer that tried it on the stove top in his kitchen while his wife was at work. It cost him a new kitchen. His wife reckons you could still smell it after he had repainted so he called in the builders to rip out the kitchen & start again!
> 
> Woolies have it in the ailse near the jam & honey, much easier.
> 
> Cheers
> Gerard



PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE USE THE BBQ OUTSIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Barramundi

Sammus said:


> did anyone else read barrys post that says how to make it? Centrifuge? concentration in a vacuum? it does sound little bit more than the ingenuity of using an esky instead of a big stainless tank for a mash tun.




it actually gets passed through a seive then 4 high speed centrifigul sieve devices (seperators) ... not saying it cant be done im just saying that it wont be easy to reproduce it especially with the all the extra additives that go into it ...

best of luck brett for my money i think id rather buy it ...


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## Gerard_M

Barramundi said:


> it actually gets passed through a seive then 4 high speed centrifigul sieve devices (seperators) ... not saying it cant be done im just saying that it wont be easy to reproduce it especially with the all the extra additives that go into it ...
> 
> best of luck brett for my money i think id rather buy it ...




Best result I have heard is "an edible yeast spread". While the guy was telling me it was edible, his wife stood behind him shaking her head.
I have heaps of spent yeast, but I wouldn't try to make my own. 
To each his own!
Gerard


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## sah

Ray Mills gave me one of his beers a few years back that had been infected with wild yeast that he battled with for a time. It tasted like vegemite and I could actually finish the glass.


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## tororm

Hi Guys, 

I will be attempting to make vegemite as soon as my next brew is complete ( a couple of weeks).

Im pretty confident at all except the centrifuging.

My steps so far:


Take slurry and add water in order to make a nice liquid solution.
Add a lot of salt- a lot! This will make the yeast autolyse
Heat to around 40 degrees and leave with lid on for a while- until the solution darkens
Separate the yeast walls somehow!
Reduce the liquid down to a paste.
Anybody else had any luck?


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## Screwtop

tororm said:


> [*]Separate the yeast walls somehow!



I was alright up to there :lol:


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## QldKev

tororm said:


> Separate the yeast walls somehow!



Maybe a small set of tweezers?   

QldKev


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## warra48

tororm said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I will be attempting to make vegemite as soon as my next brew is complete ( a couple of weeks).
> 
> Im pretty confident at all except the centrifuging.
> 
> My steps so far:
> 
> 
> Take slurry and add water in order to make a nice liquid solution.
> Add a lot of salt- a lot! This will make the yeast autolyse
> Heat to around 40 degrees and leave with lid on for a while- until the solution darkens
> Separate the yeast walls somehow!
> Reduce the liquid down to a paste.
> Anybody else had any luck?



You forgot the last step:
6. Toss the whole lot out in the garbage. 

As you can probably gather, I'm not a fan of vegemite at all. I even have trouble putting it on mrs warra's toast.

Still, if it pushes your buttons, go for it.


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## microbe

QldKev said:


> Maybe a small set of tweezers?
> 
> QldKev



Don't forget the microscope! 

microbe


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## joshlangmaid

This is interesting. I wouldn't mind trying this aswell if it was worth it. I just scrap the yeast cake off the bottum and use it? Can it be stored for time?


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## jojai

I'd say storing it in the freezer would be no problem since it is heated about 47C to kill the yeast anyway?

But I wouldn't bother, sounds too hard. Wouldn't mind having some foul liquid to put into water balloons though.... damn yappy dog....


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## PaulSteele

my brother had a fermenter layng around his house for months that he had brewed a batch in, but been too lazy to clean the shit out of.

it had turned into vegemite, i swear. it was thick and black, smelled the same.

i couldn't bring myself to taste it though.

:icon_vomit:


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## simonscheck

So anyone ever had any luck with this? Got some upcoming yeast gunk from a brew, thought I might try and vegemitise it.


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## snomonkey33

I was thinking of the centrifuge, there are a couple ways you could do this pretty easily at home. one way would be a salad spinner with small dishes inside to hold the liquid. Not much G force in a salad spinner though, so if you had to up the intensity take a milk jug with a handle and tie it to a rope and lengthen the rope (radius) and/or increase the rotational velocity to increase your g-force. encourage separation by using a tall narrow container with a handle at the top. horizontal spinning should maintain consistent g-force while vertical spinning like a tire would cause gravity to impose a sinusoidal component on the g-force (not to mention your input to keep it moving will likely be non-constant). Not sure how long you have to spin that sucker to get separation, or what separation will look like, though since I haven't done it yet myself.


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## snomonkey33

for the vacuum boiling, it allows you to reduce the mixture without overcooking the yeast. Not sure how much of a vacuum they're pulling, but the more you pull the lower the boiling point gets. I am thinking of attaching a hand pump to a pressure cooker but I'm 99% sure that the seals in that are directional and will only work with positive gage pressure. I'll have to rig something up so that the seals will work under negative gage pressure and not trip any of the safety valves.


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## krausenhaus

You're not going to spin down cell membranes using a milk jug on a rope.

The Vegemite factory uses centrifugation and vacuum evaporation because they're economically favourable for mass production.

If you're making it in your kitchen, I would look at some sort of filtration followed by long, gentle heating to evaporate rather than butchering a pressure cooker or trying to be a human centrifuge.

Also, I imagine there are a lot of process and quality control measures that make the difference between vegemite and a stinky, bitter paste of cell lysate.


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## gap

Did you think snomonkey33 was being serious?


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## wide eyed and legless

Could use this as a starting point, and to get the basic idea.

http://www.msmarmitelover.com/2011/04/how-to-make-your-own-marmite.html


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## krausenhaus

gap said:


> Did you think snomonkey33 was being serious?


Yes. This is the Internet, I've seen much stupider ideas.


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## panzerd18

Doesn't seem economical or worth the effort, although could be fun as an experiment.


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## TimT

I think you'd need a truckload of yeast. For a homebrewer I don't think it would be viable.


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## Mardoo

This is the kind of bassackwards notion that makes me love this forum!


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## Grott

There are something's in life you just shouldn't **** with.


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## elcarter

Just go make some peanut butter.


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## Danscraftbeer

If anyone tries the jug on a rope technique can the please make an educational Youtube video and post it here


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## TimT

I have chucked dregs in mushroom stews and icecream and they seemed to work pretty well so, there you go.


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## trustyrusty

Barramundi said:


> fellas . i work at the factory and trust me when i tell ya its not a product to be made at home its a fairly complex and involved process.. having said that i dont actually know how its made but i do know its not a simple mix and cook process


Thanks - I did not want to make it - I was just interested in how it is made, and from I can see ... I will be buying a $6.00 jar everytime...  ...


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## wynnum1

BottleBitch said:


> Hi All,
> 
> 
> I saw doc's blog about making sour dough from fermenting beer and thought what could I do with that yeast cake sitting in the bottom of the fermenter, then it dawned on me, Vegemite, I can make Vegemite with it, well its the main ingredient isn't it. I have had a good look around the net for recipes and how to make Vegemite, but found nothing.
> 
> I was hoping you smart people of AHB might have some ideas on what to do? I know that it involves cooking up the yeast with salt and malt extract but thats all I have.
> 
> Cheers and Beers
> 
> Brett



Halal does that rule out yeast cake sitting in the bottom of the fermenter.


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## kieran

I reckon you could make a bucket centrifuge using a high torque angle grinder and a bit of metal fabrication. However if it falls apart it'd knock a hole through a wall. You'd need to run it inside an old washing machine of something. I like this idea.

I reckon you could pellet this stuff at 500xg given sufficient time (like 20-30mins). On a rotor of about 45cm diameter, that equates to roughly 1600rpm. But it'd have to support probably a kilo of mass at that speed, and it would need to be bloody well balanced. Sustaining that speed wouldn't be a problem, but getting it up to speed could take a long time, providing the angle grinder doesn't stall completely. Might need some other high speed high torque motor.


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## Danscraftbeer

Too hard basket it gets thrown!
If I want Vegemite. (Vary rarely) But I recognize it and respect it as an Australian farkin awesome Invention thang.
I will buy the true product. It lasts beyond the used by date many fold. It can act like a seasoning used in tiny amounts.
Or lay it on thick with butter on toast, or freakin good Pancakes too. Pale or Dark?

I endorse vegimite but totally out of the realms of the home brewer/cook to make at home unless. You could dehydrate spent wort and yeast cakes while continuous blending would make very good vegimite? I have no farkin idea and its not something for the home brewer. Unless someone shows proof in a youtube video at least.


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## MHB

The technical term for a centrifuge failing is "Explosive Disassembly" I think the term caries its own warnings, but just incase - be bloody careful!
I have a small Alfa Laval centrifuge (not a test tube spinner, a stacked cone jobbie) it has a about 20 step soft starter and spins at around 28K RPM, when you fire it up its like a jet engine spooling up, a noise that tends to make people back slowly toward the door.
If you live around Newey and want to bung some extract through it send me a PM.
Mark


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## Danscraftbeer

So its gravity being the secret ingredient then. Asking the laymans question, what is the G force needed?


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## MHB

In the other thread on Vegemite I posted a link Catch
It gives all the process steps in the flowchart, its talking about 10,000g you can use lower g force but it takes longer.
Mark


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## wynnum1

kieran said:


> I reckon you could make a bucket centrifuge using a high torque angle grinder and a bit of metal fabrication. However if it falls apart it'd knock a hole through a wall. You'd need to run it inside an old washing machine of something. I like this idea.
> 
> I reckon you could pellet this stuff at 500xg given sufficient time (like 20-30mins). On a rotor of about 45cm diameter, that equates to roughly 1600rpm. But it'd have to support probably a kilo of mass at that speed, and it would need to be bloody well balanced. Sustaining that speed wouldn't be a problem, but getting it up to speed could take a long time, providing the angle grinder doesn't stall completely. Might need some other high speed high torque motor.


Had an Aldi blender the metal blade came apart and went through the jug the blade was small and light hate to think what a grinder could do there have been many deaths from grinder discs exploding.


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## kieran

MHB said:


> It gives all the process steps in the flowchart, its talking about 10,000g you can use lower g force but it takes longer.
> Mark



You can pellet cells/proteins at 500g, just keep it well cool and give it time, and the rotor well balanced, shaft machined to german or japanese perfection, buckets well attached (swinging or not).
There are other ways though that could work.
10000xg is an incredibly fast spin for this. I can't for my life think of a commercial or engineering reason to do that at a production level. I'd love to see the massive size of something that could swing commercial quantities of lysed yeast at 10000xg.  I'm thinking something the size of a house nested inside a concrete bunker for failure protection. Think of the workCover inspection.. bloody hell lol.


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## MHB

I'm pretty sure they are talking about a Conical plate centrifuge, rather than a bucket type laboratory centrifuge.
These aren't all that uncommon an alternative to filtration in larger commercial brewing, effective g forces well in excess of 10kxg aren't all that hard to get.
Mark


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## wessmith

Maybe try and get hold of an old cream separator, spent many hours as a kid cranking on of these. Every farmer with cows used to have one.
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&...rator_(milk)&usg=AOvVaw3ouCpV9Xw7pu-8VQ_GfZhV


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## MHB

Just measured mine and counted the teeth on the drive belt pullies, comes to around 9,600g according to this calculator
Based on R=6, RPM is 11970 gives 9659.52g
Mine is only a baby, made as a lab model by Alpha Laval, only 17 cones in the stack. So getting 10,000g is going to be pretty easy. The rotator is only 120mm ID, I have seen spinners in breweries over 600mm and in other industries even bigger. If you were setting up to make vegemite commercially it would be pretty small potatoes.
Mark
Like this only blue


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## RyanDoesStuff

I’m doing this. I have my yeast is is currently going though what is call autolysis. I have it in a water bath at 46°c and I will keep it there for 2 days. Then the centrifuge.


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## RyanDoesStuff

BottleBitch said:


> Hi All,
> I was hoping you smart people of AHB might have some ideas on what to do? I know that it involves cooking up the yeast with salt and malt extract but thats all I have.
> 
> Cheers and Beers
> 
> Brett


Are you still interested in this, because I am in the middle of making some.


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## Brewhappy

RyanDoesStuff said:


> Are you still interested in this, because I am in the middle of making some.


I'm interested in learning more? The recipes I have found don't explain very well.


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## sdsperth

I just put it in a pot with some salt and reduced it down. It's dark brown, rather than black, but tastes like the real thing to me. 
The yeast I used had been sitting in a bottle for many months though. When I opened it, there was a smell of vegemite already, so aging might be the key. 
I'll try it with some fresh sediment next brew, but if anyone has some fresh stuff now, please pop some it in a pot and post your results.


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## RyanDoesStuff

Super exciting guys. I have been so busy that I just left it where it was. I will be making some beer soon. Once I have, I will get the yeast and go the full hog on this. Autolysis and centrifuge. Can’t wait. Good to see there is still some interest in making Vegemite. The real stuff, not some ground up nuts which are all the recipes out there.


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## RyanDoesStuff

Brewhappy said:


> I'm interested in learning more? The recipes I have found don't explain very well.


I’m getting back into this. I will let you know how I do it, and how it goes.


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## RyanDoesStuff

sdsperth said:


> I just put it in a pot with some salt and reduced it down. It's dark brown, rather than black, but tastes like the real thing to me.
> The yeast I used had been sitting in a bottle for many months though. When I opened it, there was a smell of vegemite already, so aging might be the key.
> I'll try it with some fresh sediment next brew, but if anyone has some fresh stuff now, please pop some it in a pot and post your results.


That is quite interesting. I’m still going to do it the way I have researched. If someone could make it the way you have suggested that would be awesome. We could compare notes.


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## RyanDoesStuff

I’m back at it, and further in than before. Any interest in this still?


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## ozdevil

love vegemite , but hey i dont want to make it , i prefer to pay for the real gold in this.

take it from ME who really hated the stuff that couldnt sit in a room when someone had it on toast or a sanga to a person that can eat the stuff like its nutella now

vegemite needs to remain a secret


oh i love the stuff these days


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## MHB

ozdevil said:


> Snip
> take it from ME who really hated the stuff that couldnt sit in a room when someone had it on toast or a sanga to a person that can eat the stuff like its nutella now
> Snip


Are you sure you aren't pregnant...
Mark


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## reddog

This one is about Marmite but the same process I think. What 'Black Magic' goes into making Marmite


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## Grmblz

Marmite, Promite, Vegemite, Bovril, Oxo, all the same but different, and that's the problem, sure it's all yeast but how many people like them all? Very different flavours/textures, I'll buy my preferred flavour because I can't stand the others, and a homebrew recipe is likely to be none of the above, but something similar to all of them.


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## trustyrusty

I like them all, but think OXO is the best.. it’s sweeter and slightly meatier...


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## Grmblz

trustyrusty said:


> I like them all, but think OXO is the best.. it’s sweeter and slightly meatier...


Agreed, I often crumble a cube into a cup of boiling water, probably not very healthy but yum.


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## yankinoz

For what a single judgement in an amateur experiment is worth, I was a blind taster of a bit of Vegemite and a bit of Marmite, each on a piece of toast. I'd never had either and had not acquired the taste in youth. My slight preference was the Marmite, but for me that was like choosing menudo over haggis, and I haven't wanted either since.

About umami foods like Vegemite and Oxo, I have a true story. Our house in PNG was burgled, but for some reason the "rascals" fled without taking much. In the bush they left a newly opened and partly drained bottle of soy. Presumably someone took a swig.


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## Grmblz

That's raskols for ya, I was in Moresby for 10 yrs, I can't tell any stories because nobody believes what I say, guess it's just one of those things you have to experience to understand, land of the unexpected indeed. Lukim yu.


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## yankinoz

Grmblz said:


> That's raskols for ya, I was in Moresby for 10 yrs, I can't tell any stories because nobody believes what I say, guess it's just one of those things you have to experience to understand, land of the unexpected indeed. Lukim yu.


Gutpela arapela wantok bilong aussiehomebrewer.


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## Grmblz

yankinoz said:


> Gutpela arapela wantok bilong aussiehomebrewer.


Em nau


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