# Failed Apple Cider?



## AussieHomeBrewer (4/11/09)

So yeah i'd been flogging my log looking at how easy it was to make a drinkable cider from recipes off this site.

I used 24 ltrs of Home Brand Apple Juice (No preservatives etc)
6gm Champagne Yeast
Yeast Nutrient

I left the 8 bottles in the fridge over night as well as the yeast, as when i bought the sachet it was in their fridge at the home brew store.
I let everything i used sit in sterilizer for a few hours and also let it sit in hot water after that to double blast it all.
I had all the juice in and temperature was around 10 degrees, i added and stirred in about 10-15gms of the yeast nutrient then wacked in my champagne yeast, put on the lid and airlock then stuck her down stairs in the dark to begin its thang.

Next day temperature was around 22 degrees (Warm enough for the yeast to have woken up id imagine) and remained as so for a few days. All that seemed to happen was mold started growing in there after around 4 days but no yeast or airlock activity apparent. I'd given her a shake to lift the yeast off the bottom in case she was sleeping in but now after almost a week and filthy mold being in their i decided it was a no go.

I have no idea why fermentation didn't begin, i suspect not enough yeast, yeast was out of date, home brand apple juice is 50% slave kid urine, some kind of intergalactic being doesn't want me to make cheap cider so it sabotaged me the bastard. Plain waste of juice and $30 i spent on ingredients, although the garden got a good feed....????WTF


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## manticle (4/11/09)

Dead yeast. 6 g also is fairly minimal. I'd buy a good sachet of wine or champagne yeast if you want to try it again. Make sure it's in date and has been stored properly. Read up on rehydrating yeast. People suggest success with US05 too.

I reckon your lhbs owes you for 24 L of apple juice. I wouldn't blame home brand.


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## rclemmett (4/11/09)

If you dry pitched 6g of yeast at 10C I'm not surprised it failed to fire...

Nice user name.... I would have thought that would have been taken ages ago.


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## Verbyla (4/11/09)

OK well i'd say the juice is fine. May not be the best quality but its 99.7% apple juice with no preservatives.

I'd say under pitching wouldn't have been a problem as 6g is enough in a 20L batch. My guess is the temperature it was pitched at, 10C is way to cold. I usually pitch in the 20-30 range. I've had the problem once before but gave it a good stir the day after when i had warmed it up to around 24C.

Don't let this put you off trying again!!! Better luck next time.


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## manticle (4/11/09)

I use yeast that tolerates lower temperatures and ferment around 12. However if pitched too low but allowed to warm I would just assume it would have a longer lag time (all other things being equal) rather than fail all together.


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## AussieHomeBrewer (4/11/09)

Yeah i thought it would just be lagging as well, but next time just to be sure ill place all but a couple of the bottles in the fridge so its not as cold. Also I'll rehydrate the yeast before i chuck it in for a kickstart.


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## Tiny_Tim (4/11/09)

Why put the juice in the fridge at all? If you're using a champagne yeast don't you want it all about room temp anyway?


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## InCider (4/11/09)

Drinking a cider/sparkling white ATM... as the guys said, get at least 10g yeast, and she will be fine. I don't even use nutrient - nor temp control for ciders. Let them be free!


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## leiothrix (4/11/09)

Why did you leave the bottles in the fridge?

Did the juice come from the fridge section in the supermarket, or from the shelf?

The stuff from the shelf has been pasteurised which is why it keeps so long. The stuff in the fridge is a bit more fresh and has all sorts of bugs in it.

If the juice was from the fridge section juice it needs to be pasteurised or blasted with sulfites (or something equivalent i suppose) first.

If you like a dry (champagne-like) cider - try using apple&pear juice (I use Berri - pasteurised 2.4L bottles) and a 5gm sachet of EC-1118. I usually juice a couple of kilos of real apples and pears, mix the Berri juice in and let sit over night with a couple of campden tablets crushed and mixed in.

Next day pitch the EC-1118 and bottle two weeks later.

It can smell a bit funky fermenting (i'm guessing from the added sulfites), but tastes great after bottle conditioning for a couple of months.

Rob.


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## manticle (4/11/09)

I make tasty ciders without pastuerisation or sulphites. I have a theory (based on little other than personal experience) that sulphites are responsible for hangovers and less pleasant types of drunkeness and I'm fairly certain I can pick them in commercial ciders. Many ciders are made throughout the world with neither.


I second the 'don't leave in the fridge' sentiment though.


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## watchUburn (5/11/09)

Tiny_Tim said:


> Why put the juice in the fridge at all? If you're using a champagne yeast don't you want it all about room temp anyway?



Depends on your room temp. In my case, the fridge would be the only option


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## Fermented (7/11/09)

Refrigerating the juice probably isn't necessary and may have played a part in poor start-up. 

Also, the yeast needs about 4 - 6 hours at room temperature or pitching temperature usually. Straight out of the fridge it's about 3C which could cause non-optimal results. 

Combine a too cool mix and a too cool yeast and the whole shebang is not in the nominal range for success, I guess. Other microbes seem to have got a head start.

All the ciders I've done have been at room temperature - about 16 - 22C depending on the time of year. Using S-05 they kick off very quickly - the shortest being 4 hours and slowest being 18 hours. The quick starting ones had varying proportions of freshly made and pasteurised apple juice - between 25% and ~75%. Like Tony says, pasteurisation isn't necessary but I'm paranoid about bad handling of fruit when chook poo is used a a fert. YMMV, etc.

S-05 is nice for the drier taste, but it's only a medium floccer so is not optimal if your target is a naturally clear product. There are always plenty of options when it comes to yeast. 

Cheers - Fermented.


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## albrews (7/11/09)

AussieHomeBrewer said:


> So yeah i'd been flogging my log looking at how easy it was to make a drinkable cider from recipes off this site.
> 
> I used 24 ltrs of Home Brand Apple Juice (No preservatives etc)
> 6gm Champagne Yeast
> ...



hi, did you start the yeast to prove it is ok before pitching to the fermenter.

i.e. in a small bowl of warm water and sugar add the yeast and stir ,and in a few minutes the yeast will produce a froth if it is alive and o.k.
i hope it helps.
cheers,alan


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## Fourstar (7/11/09)

AussieHomeBrewer said:


> I let everything i used sit in sterilizer for a few hours *and also let it sit in hot water after that to double blast it all.*



Thats the reason for your infection. You sanitised then negated it with hot water.

As for your yeast, rehydration before letting it hit juice would have been a good option also but not the reason for your yeast dying. Ive currently got a cider going wtih 20L of aldi apple juice and all i did was rehydrate the yeast in cooled boiled water for an hour. breday took me 1/2 hour. Alot faster than my usual 12 hour triple AG brewdays!


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## AussieHomeBrewer (17/11/09)

I always Sanitize then Hot Water Heat Blast my fermenter for ages to make sure no sanitizer crap is left just incase the sanitizer will kill the yeast or interfere with something during fermenting, this is all done right before i start a brew. This is how ive always cleaned my shit and ive never had an infection before so i wldnt blame crap cleaning skills. I'll buy my next yeast from a different brew shop and activate it before adding, should be sweet.


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## manticle (17/11/09)

Fourstar said:


> Thats the reason for your infection. You sanitised then negated it with hot water.



Sounds like the yeast didn't work at all though.


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