# Which Wyeast For Aussie Style Lager With Flavour



## manticle (9/8/10)

I have some fresh PoR flowers in the freezer and the weather is lager brewing weather.

Looking at using a liquid yeast that will complement a refreshing Aussie style lager which has a bit more flavour than the ones we tend to associate with the style. A bit malty, good body but not dense and still dry in the finish.

Looking at pils malt, a touch of wheat, some rice, PoR for bittering only (maybe around 35 IBU) 5-5.5 ish % and a liquid lager yeast to top it off. From web descriptions I'm leaning towards Budvar (WY2000). 

Any suggestions?


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## Fourstar (9/8/10)

2124 Bohemian Lager yeast. best general purpose lager yeast IMO :icon_cheers:


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## manticle (9/8/10)

Cheers - I was looking at that one. How different from the budvar?


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## Scruffy (9/8/10)

2565.

I can taste it now!!


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## manticle (9/8/10)

I'm not sure you've convinced me there scruffy. Was looking at something a bit more traditionally considered a lager yeast as opposed to Kolsch or alt type ale/psuedo lager yeasts.

How does 2565 go with PoR?


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## under (9/8/10)

2124 = WLP830 right


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## manticle (9/8/10)

According to Mr malty comparison chart - yes.


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## Fourstar (9/8/10)

manticle said:


> Cheers - I was looking at that one. How different from the budvar?



higher attenuation and cleaner balanced profile. budvar is more malt accenutated.


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## Scruffy (10/8/10)

...thought a Klsch might be suitably left field for a man of your considerable.

2001 then... be a scientist.


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## Mayor of Mildura (10/8/10)

Hey Manticle

I've been using wyeast 2042 in my last few batches of "aussie" lager. I'm pretty happy with it. I've got one on tap at the moment. A very simple recipe- trad ale, POR bittering only to 25IBU and some suger. I'm amazed at the amount of hop flavour that comes through. 

My only gripe with this yeast is it takes ages to clear. 

I've also been eyeing off the 2252-pc. Has anybody tried this yet? I might get a packet and give it a burst. 

Cheers :icon_cheers: 

MOM


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## Screwtop (10/8/10)

A

My 2c = No stinky Czech Pils with POR

Wyeast 2007

Screwy


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## manticle (10/8/10)

Scruffy said:


> ...thought a Klsch might be suitably left field for a man of your considerable.
> 
> 2001 then... be a scientist.



I do have a lab coat.

Definitely not opposed to the idea - just thought I'd pump out one with a bit more 'science' then tweak the next one.

So many suggestions now I'm just as confused as when I first asked. Cheers for the replies


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## under (10/8/10)

I was thinking a bit. I would use 2112 over all suggestions.


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## Swinging Beef (10/8/10)

Make up your mind.
Aussie style lager
OR
With Flavour


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## manticle (10/8/10)

SwingingBeef: Was waiting for that one. I need something to offer some of the people I know something other than stout, alt, cider, porter, APA, tripel, (generally) failed dubbel and aged brett beers. A few people I know only drink pale coloured beers and it is a challenge to make a clean one that is acceptable to their limited palates.

If I get it right I might make a batch or two for my brother's wedding in April 2011. No point forcing beer on him he won't drink.


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## mje1980 (10/8/10)

manticle said:


> SwingingBeef: Was waiting for that one. I need something to offer some of the people I know something other than stout, alt, cider, porter, APA, tripel, (generally) failed dubbel and aged brett beers. A few people I know only drink pale coloured beers and it is a challenge to make a clean one that is acceptable to their limited palates.
> 
> If I get it right I might make a batch or two for my brother's wedding in April 2011. No point forcing beer on him he won't drink.




I had a cream ale brewed with 2112 ( unders ) and it was the fastest keg i've ever had on. Very easy to drink beer, and the swill drinkers love it. Sooo easy to make, and your recipe looks pretty good. Just remember to keep the IBU's low, as i made one, but hopped it like a standard all malt lager. Too much for the light body of the cream ale. Still lovely beer though, just a touch too bitter for the super light body.


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## Swinging Beef (10/8/10)

manticle said:


> SwingingBeef: Was waiting for that one. I need something to offer some of the people I know something other than stout, alt, cider, porter, APA, tripel, (generally) failed dubbel and aged brett beers. A few people I know only drink pale coloured beers and it is a challenge to make a clean one that is acceptable to their limited palates.
> 
> If I get it right I might make a batch or two for my brother's wedding in April 2011. No point forcing beer on him he won't drink.


yeah, I get ya.
I just reckon that it is almost not worth bothering to brew a golden fizzy lager in this country.
You can get (well, i can in wollongong) Pilsner Urquell, Budvar, Becks, Konisburg, Carlsberg, Heiniken and import Stella all for around $50 a carton.
Once you factor all costs into brewing something like this, including your lager time and elec costs for maintaining the temps, Im not sure you end up ahead.
Where as you can brew some mighty fine belgian or brittish style brews for a fraction of the cost of the carton price.

I also think that Australian Style Lager is not something flavourful. It is a simple lightly malted fizzy beverage with little or no hop or yeast character, and that is what makes it uniquely Aussie. It is also the reason it is hard for home brewers to replicate. There is nothing for your mistakes to hide behind.


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## Oatlands Brewer (10/8/10)

Sorry to go OT Mant...whats the deal with rice.

Ive seen it pop up in various recipies and disussions.

Also ive seen rice hulls, been mentioned

Cheers


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## Bribie G (10/8/10)

Tidal Pete makes magnificent lagers with 2042 (Danish) as Batz and Screwtop will attest. They are basically Carlton Crowns with a bit more colour and flavour. I believe CUB yeasts are sourced from Copenhagen. Personally I've been just using S-189.

The deal with rice is that it gives a smooth grainy lighter bodied beer - you could put sugar in instead but there's a subtle difference in flavour. For an Aussie that knocks the socks off the visitors I just do my old faithful:

4000 BB Galaxy (or JW Pils would be similar)
1000 Rice cooked to a slurry
330 Carapils

90 min boil with 20g POR flowers

S-189
Start fermenting at 12 and let it drift up to 18 on the Fridgemate over 10 days
Lager in cold fridge 10 days
Keg

I just did the same one with W-34/70 and entered it into the BABBs comp where it got a score of 34.5 but.............

"This is a well made beer that has no obvious flaws, but I am not sure if it is strictly to style. It seems to be more of a German/European Lager or Pilsener with the maltiness."

And:

" Pleasant drinking but not quite true to style"

 

I think the yeast did that, so I'll actually try the Danish next time - and less malt and more riiiiiiiiiiice :drinks:


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## under (10/8/10)

4000 BB Galaxy (or JW Pils would be similar)
1000 Rice cooked to a slurry
330 Carapils

90 min boil with 20g POR flowers

Yep. I think this would be a great option. Saying that the JW pils is alot maltier than the galaxy. You could even get away with trad ale, bb ale. I dont think it really matters.

Yeast - danish/american/swiss go any. If you have something already use it.


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## under (10/8/10)

Hey bribie. Whats the ibus on that thing?


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## technoicon (10/8/10)

I have done a few lagers now with 2042(Danish) and POR bittering with a bit of cascade @ 30mins.

came out tasting like a fresher Carlton, lighter, and really easily to drink, more flavor.

we finished 1.5 kegs one night, probably the only bad thing about it is its so easy to drink to much of this stuff!

Cheers.


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## manticle (10/8/10)

Swinging Beef said:


> yeah, I get ya.
> I just reckon that it is almost not worth bothering to brew a golden fizzy lager in this country.
> You can get (well, i can in wollongong) Pilsner Urquell, Budvar, Becks, Konisburg, Carlsberg, Heiniken and import Stella all for around $50 a carton.
> Once you factor all costs into brewing something like this, including your lager time and elec costs for maintaining the temps, Im not sure you end up ahead.
> ...



Partly the challenge.

Just because I mentioned aussie though, doesn't mean I don't want a bit of malt in there to back it up. The main things I don't like about mainstream aussie lagers are the fact that above 4 degrees they are often unpalatable and the isohop twang. Had QLDKev's aussie coopers pale ale (obviously the coopers yeast added something too) with fresh PoR flowers (same batch I'm using) and it was superb. The flowers had a subtle but uniquely aussie flavour that did come through (bittering only). Keep in mind that I'm not looking for an exact carlton/MB/VB etc clone - just something that will appeal to drinkers of carlton or becks, uses PoR, is clean and refreshing but also has a taste. What Carlton/MB/VB etc _should be_ like rather than _is like_ I guess.

Buying my brother a carton of budvar won't have quite the same meaning. If I get it right it will also make those who only see beer as one thing reconsider the idea of homebrew. I love dark beers and English ales so this just pushes me outside my own boundaries a bit (strange as that may seem)

Oatlands - bribie answered your question on the rice but rice hulls are used to prevent a stuck sparge in a manifold when you have lots of small particles - particularly when you have a high percentage of wheat malt but also with some adjuncts.

Thanks all.


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## Bribie G (10/8/10)

Further meanderings and thoughts  

Actually I find my OZ lagers to be the cheapest beers of all, and using the warmer ferments like they do at CUB the primary fermenting fridge only turns on about 10 times a day. I do my 2,2,2,2 system with 2 in the urns being brewed, 2 in primary - this time of year rather than the ferm fridge I actually do two fermenters sitting on a towel with a 5L little frozen jerry between them and wrapped in a big beach towel and a doonah. If I chill the wort cubes to 10 then pitch, I can get the temp from 12 up to low ale in 10 days by swapping the jerries just daily then every two days.
Then 2 in the lagering fridge and 2 kegged in the kegerator queue.

Cost per brew:

4k malt $8.50
1 k rice $1.20
330g carapils $1.30
Yeast per ferment $1
POR $1.50


Around $13 to $14 for a beer that is more flavoursome and stronger in alcohol than XXXX or Carlton.

Edit: Under, according to Beersmith it comes out at around 28 IBU but I'm a bit doubtful - tastes more like low 20s to me. Next time I have one on tap I'll grab a bottle of Melbourne Bitter from Liquorland round the corner and do a taste off.


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## pike1973 (10/8/10)

when you say 1000 of rice cooked to a slurry is that 1000 cooked or is it 1000 dry and then cooked to a slurry? Please excuse my amature question but im just trying to figure it out. If it is 1000 after cooked to a slurry how much would you start off with dry? Do you then just put the slurry in with the malt in the mash?
Thanks Ads.


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## manticle (10/8/10)

Slurry needs to be mashed with base malt. Cooking it gelatinises it first so that the starch can get converted by the enzymes in the malt (if I have things straight).

I believe it is final weight. Not sure of exact pre-cooked weight but I'd roughly guess at 1/3.


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## Bribie G (10/8/10)

pike1973 said:


> when you say 1000 of rice cooked to a slurry is that 1000 cooked or is it 1000 dry and then cooked to a slurry? Please excuse my amature question but im just trying to figure it out. If it is 1000 after cooked to a slurry how much would you start off with dry? Do you then just put the slurry in with the malt in the mash?
> Thanks Ads.



No that's dry weight. Aussie malts can convert that quantity of rice just fine. I was talking to one of our distilling brothers the other night and he said that some guys use masses of adjunct and do a 'cereal mash' with an amazingly small amount of malt to convert the starches in the other grains (spuds, cornmeal whatever). I recently did cereal mashes with a kilo of rice and a kilo of polenta for my superstrength American Malt Liquor (currently in primary) and the kilo of grain cooked to a mush was almost instantly converted by just adding 500g of Barrett Burston Ale malt. One minute a thick gluggy porridge almost as thick as mashed potatoes, then 10 stirs of the spoon later the enzymes in the malt had converted the porridge to a thin dextrin soup.

There's a recipe a forum member has sent me that basically uses twice rice to one of malt - before I did my cereal mash experiment I thought the guy was some sort of a wankr but now I realise his recipe actually should work......I'll be doing it next on my list to try for a sort of Vietnamese Bia Hoi :icon_drunk:


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## Swinging Beef (10/8/10)

manticle said:


> Partly the challenge.


Say no more! 
Brew like a mad man

I get what you are doing, and it is a noble cause.
I served up some Loenbrau to a couple of died in the wool Carlton drinkers from Melbourne the other day.
"Wow.. this IS nice.. what is this?"
"Its German Lager, guys."
They got the next round and bought themselves more Carlton.
It was funny to see their faces. They werent happy. :icon_cheers:


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## razz (10/8/10)

Another vote for 2112 Manticle. Very nice beers from this yeast and you don't have to keep the temp to low.


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## Nick JD (10/8/10)

Here's my oxymoronic Premium CUB Aussie Lager.

18L 
2.5kg BB Ale 
0.5kg BB Wheat
0.2kg Caraamber
0.1kg Caramunich
0.2kg Sugaz
12g PoR 60min
10g PoR 10min
S189 @ 12C (rest @ 20C at FG, gel and poly @ 12C)

It ticks the megaswill drinker's boxes but is maltier and hoppier. This with PoR and/or Cluster is my quaffer.


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## Bribie G (10/8/10)

As soon as the current rain band passes over on Thursday I'm going to plant my Cluster rhizome.



Gotta love those old side basher taps :beerbang:


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## Siborg (10/8/10)

Nice one, manticle.

I've been meaning to try something similar lately. Going for something similar, wanna try rice and have some dry yeast to try. Haven't done a lager, so I might just play with dried yeast for this one.

How does everyone use their rice? Cook it the night before, then the whole lot in with the mash the next day?


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## hazard (10/8/10)

Swinging Beef said:


> I also think that Australian Style Lager is not something flavourful. It is a simple lightly malted fizzy beverage with little or no hop or yeast character, and that is what makes it uniquely Aussie.



Really? Hardly unique to Australia - I had a budweiser last week - I think your description above fits it well, and it had even less flavour than a VB. Well, I had to try one, once in my life, and now i can say "never again".


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## manticle (10/8/10)

BribieG said:


> No that's dry weight. :icon_drunk:



Makes it easier to calculate then.

What I'm aiming to do with this brew is combine the malty but crisp dryness of a german lager (say dortmunder or somesuch) with the signature hop of many Australian beers (ie PoR). Still unsure at this stage whether I'll use rice or not.

I'll have a read through all the responses again before placing my order.


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## therook (10/8/10)

manticle,

I may have a spare 2007 slant at home if you want it

Rook


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## Bribie G (10/8/10)

For a continental lager, maize does an excellent job as well - they use it in a lot of Belgian, Austrian and French beers AFAIK, including dear old Stella - the real Belgian version. I'm entering a Pale Continental Lager in the QABC and it's all my usual suspects but with Polenta subbed for the rice

4000 Galaxy
1000 Polenta 
330 Carapils

60 Hallertau Mittlefruh (French pressings) 90 mins
40 Saaz 20 mins
15 Styrian Goldings hop tea into cube

Hallertau french pressed tea into fermenter

S-189

I'm kegging it in about 3 hours, I'll have a sneaky out of the lagering vessel :icon_drunk:


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## manticle (10/8/10)

Never say no to a slant.

Cheers rook.


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## drsmurto (10/8/10)

If you want aussie hop flavour in a german style lager i would forgot about rice, corn and the rest of the contents of your pantry and use the KISS principle.

100% pils malt
60/20/0 min addition of POR flowers going light on the late additions.
Whichever wyeast lager strain floats your boat or if you can get your hands on some, WLP833.

You don't need sugar or maize or rice to brew a malty, dry, crisp lager.

EDIT - spelling


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## under (10/8/10)

Kegged this morning. From the sample glass I had after carbing, wow its going to be a cracker.

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: 25 - Cream Ale Mk III
Brewer: Dazza
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Lite American Lager
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 27.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.053 SG
Estimated Color: 6.4 EBC
Estimated IBU: 18.6 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4000.00 gm Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EGrain 75.05 % 
1000.00 gm Maize, Flaked (Thomas Fawcett) (3.9 EBC) Grain 18.76 % 
330.00 gm Carapils / Carafoam (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 6.19 % 
10.00 gm Galena [11.00 %] (60 min) Hops 11.4 IBU 
10.00 gm Pearle [8.50 %] (20 min) Hops 5.4 IBU 
10.00 gm Pearle [8.50 %] (5 min) Hops 1.8 IBU 


Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 5330.00 gm


Maize is Polenta. Id have to say, the perle gives it a taste similar to the Hoegaarden Wit. (White label)


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## Effect (10/8/10)

DrSmurto said:


> If you want aussie hop flavour in a german style lager i would forgot about rice, corn and the rest of the contents of your pantry and use the KISS principle.
> 
> 100% pils malt
> 60/20/0 min addition of POR flowers going light on the late additions.
> ...



+1


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## HoppingMad (10/8/10)

+1 on the Wyeast 2112. 

Had a mate's beer that used this and it comes up nice and clean, and at a higher temp of 18 gets that slight 'mousyness' that Fosters, VB and Melb Bitter get.

So take this one low close to 14 degrees for clean refreshing drop, higher to make it like CUB! :lol: 

On this subject have done a bit of research and discovered that Fosters actually supplied their lager yeast strain to Carlsberg after their brewery had their stocks diminished due to German occupation and a lack of supplies in the late 40s. Some sources say their Danish Brewery got bombed also, but unsure on this one. 

Anyhow, the long and the short of it is you can also take a Danish lager yeast (the one modelled on the carlsberg strain) and brew a little higher than normal you will also get that 'aussie' flavour. Supposedly Fosters and Carlsberg lager yeast is one and the same thing.

Or so the internet tells me.  Whether both strains have changed a bit over the years is more than likely, but at one point they were both cousins!

History lesson over!

Hopper.


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## manticle (10/8/10)

DrSmurto said:


> If you want aussie hop flavour in a german style lager i would forgot about rice, corn and the rest of the contents of your pantry and use the KISS principle.
> 
> 100% pils malt
> 60/20/0 min addition of POR flowers going light on the late additions.
> ...




Pretty much my current thinking. Might go the budvar for one batch and keep a simple grain bill with no adjunct and do the 2007 from rook and use the adjunct for a second batch. I'm sure both will go down a treat in the warmer months provided nothing stuffs up. Will be fermenting both as cool as they go.


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## Nick JD (10/8/10)

manticle said:


> Pretty much my current thinking. Might go the budvar for one batch and keep a simple grain bill with no adjunct and do the 2007 from rook and use the adjunct for a second batch. I'm sure both will go down a treat in the warmer months provided nothing stuffs up. Will be fermenting both as cool as they go.



So the only Aussie thing about it will be the PoR - which in Aussie Lagers is hardly even a perceptable flavour? 

I'm making a Euro Lager tomorrow ... VB recipe, but with Saaz   .


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## manticle (10/8/10)

Nick JD said:


> So the only Aussie thing about it will be the PoR - which in Aussie Lagers is hardly even a perceptable flavour?
> 
> I'm making a Euro Lager tomorrow ... VB recipe, but with Saaz   .



Aussie malts plus aussie hops, made in australia by an australian. Haven't heard of an aussie lager yeast; have you? Water will come from Australia too if that makes you feel better.

Really it was a descriptor for others to get an idea of what I'm on about mr wheatless wheat beer. Pretend I put a winky and a pokey tongue icon at the end of that - not much of an emoticon user.


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## haysie (10/8/10)

So many choices hey, 2042 is a good yeast for the style your after IMO, made this recently, and after a month of lagering and some band-aid hopping, its an absolute cracker, i missed the POR flavour coming thru due to using such a small amount, the brewlog on the above recipe will tell you my on the day stuff ups. 
As some else mentioned 2042 takes a while to floc, it does, and its a slow bugger @ 9deg and its restrictive in what "to style" beers you want to do, I only did 2 brews and then moved on to a more malt focused lager yeast 2206.

edit, hope the new link works


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## Nick JD (10/8/10)

manticle said:


> Really it was a descriptor for others to get an idea of what I'm on about mr wheatless wheat beer.



Nigerian calling the Kenyan, black ... just sayin'.  

I'm making an Aussie Ale with Aussie ingredients following the recipe for _Duvel _because my mates like Coopers. 

God, next thing you'll be telling us you make wheat beers without wheat!


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## manticle (10/8/10)

Not really the same thing is it - I'm making a beer with some australian ingredients including a signature australian hop (which I'd suggest has much more discernible flavour than you give it credit for) as opposed to a beer without any of the primary ingredient it's directly named after.

Shall we continue this some other time?

Cheers Haysie - had considered the danish lager.


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## DUANNE (10/8/10)

ive found that a good yeast for an ultra clean aussie style lager is wyeast american lager. the beers ive had mega swill drikers enjoy most were offhand 5 kg jw pils, 1kg rice and 20 ibu of super pride at 90m.


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## Nick JD (10/8/10)

Just use S-189, man. The PoR is going to shit all over any subtlties a flash lager yeast will give it. 

It's like grating truffles on baked beans.


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## manticle (10/8/10)

Notwithstanding your opinion on PoR or its culinary equivalent, one very simple reason I don't buy many dry yeasts bar US05 anymore is the fact that I can split my wyeast packs up and get many brews - thus making them very cost effective AND having a great number of strains on hand all the time. With dry yeast I tend not to bother reculturing. S-189 doesn't seem to be available from grain and grape where I get my ingredients - the saflager they do list comes in around $9 whereas the wyeast I can use and reuse comes in at less than $14.

Also the question was 'which wyeast should I use' not 'should I use one'.

Cheers though.

PS: How does something that has 'no discernible flavour' shit all over the subtleties of a lager yeast?


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## Nick JD (11/8/10)

manticle said:


> PS: How does something that has 'no discernible flavour' shit all over the subtleties of a lager yeast?



You are using it in late additions.


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## Bribie G (11/8/10)

I've never used POR as a late addition. However for an authentic Aussie flavour, Superpride is good as a late hop, a lot smoooother. Also Aus Cluster if you are looking for a XXXX style.

So I'd go bitter with POR and late with Superpride or Cluster. In fact when I eventually get my cold break bloody experiment happening - today dammit (frustration) <_< I'll be doing just that, a double batch of three-X with POR and Cluster. And no it's not the Chinese Cluster


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## Fourstar (11/8/10)

Nick JD said:


> It's like grating truffles on baked beans.



Some people love baked beans and dont like truffle. Much like i enjoy POR or Superpride and dont really care for most dried yeasts. So dumping dried yeast onto a well crafted lager made with a unjustified and misrepresented commercial grade hop to me is blasphemy!


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## BoilerBoy (11/8/10)

Fourstar said:


> Some people love baked beans and dont like truffle. Much like i enjoy POR or Superpride and dont really care for most dried yeasts. So dumping dried yeast onto a well crafted lager made with a unjustified and misrepresented commercial grade hop to me is blasphemy!



I so totally agree with the above statement. 

Cheers,
BB


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## manticle (11/8/10)

Nick JD said:


> You are using it in late additions.




Where did you get that idea from?

From post one:


> Looking at pils malt, a touch of wheat, some rice, *PoR for bittering only* (maybe around 35 IBU) 5-5.5 ish % and a liquid lager yeast to top it off. From web descriptions I'm leaning towards Budvar (WY2000).



I've since decided to do one without rice and one with, one with Wy budvar (the riceless one) and one with Wy American pilsner. No mention of late additions (nor any thought of doing so).


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## mje1980 (11/8/10)

manticle, if you have as much success with your lager as you do showing NickJD to be the fool he is, the keg will be gone within an hour.


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## Nick JD (11/8/10)

manticle said:


> Where did you get that idea from?



Dr. Smurto said:

_If you want aussie hop flavour in a german style lager i would forgot about rice, corn and the rest of the contents of your pantry and use the KISS principle.

100% pils malt
60/20/0 min addition of POR flowers going light on the late additions.
Whichever wyeast lager strain floats your boat or if you can get your hands on some, WLP833.

You don't need sugar or maize or rice to brew a malty, dry, crisp lager.

_You replied: "Pretty much my current thinking._"

_Sorry if I read it wrong._
_


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## Fourstar (11/8/10)

mje1980 said:


> manticle, if you have as much success with your lager as you do showing NickJD to be the fool he is, the keg will be gone within an hour.




:lol:


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## manticle (11/8/10)

Nick JD said:


> Dr. Smurto said:
> 
> _If you want aussie hop flavour in a german style lager i would forgot about rice, corn and the rest of the contents of your pantry and use the KISS principle.
> 
> ...




I meant the KISS/adjunct free bit.


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## Screwtop (11/8/10)

mje1980 said:


> manticle, if you have as much success with your lager as you do showing NickJD to be the fool he is, the keg will be gone within an hour.


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## under (11/8/10)

Oh no. :beerbang:


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## Nick JD (11/8/10)

mje1980 said:


> manticle, if you have as much success with your lager as you do showing NickJD to be the fool he is, the keg will be gone within an hour.



That actually is pretty funny. But what's worrying me at this stage is Bum hasn't come in to put the boot in too. 

I hope he's okay.


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## manticle (2/9/10)

Quick update and question.

I brewed the two lagers within a day or so of each other. No chilled both while I grew yeast and made starters - Budvar yeast was from a smack pack and so stepping up was quick and easy. American yeast was from a slant so it took a bit longer.

Anyway fermented as cool as possible (probably 10-11 degrees). Had previously put down a german style lager too - when I measured the gravity of German and first aussie at 1020, I racked both. Waited a couple more days and racked the one with 2007 yeast - stupidly I assumed and didn't check gravity. Once racked I checked and it was 1030 which is way earlier than I would normally rack a 1050ish beer.

The other two are now lagering and taste great in samples - nice and clear looking too.

The 2007 was tasting promising but today I noticed a big hit of acetylaldehyde. I'm guessing I stressed the yeast by racking too early. What I've read and what I've heard is that yeast will clean up acetylaldehyde given time and further conditioning will help. Can anyone who's had acetylaldehyde and let it sit confirm this? I'm in no rush for the brew - just green apple is the last thing I want in it.

Fresh PoR flowers are great though.

I did just find this


> _Wyeast 2007 is reported to have the slight apple like flavors that distinguish all AB products._



from here https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/ro/www/BoneyardUn...ots/wyeast.html

so maybe that's all it is?


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## Fourstar (2/9/10)

manticle said:


> The 2000 was tasting promising but today I noticed a big hit of acetylaldehyde. I'm guessing I stressed the yeast by racking too early. What I've read and what I've heard is that yeast will clean up acetylaldehyde given time and further conditioning will help. Can anyone who's had acetylaldehyde and let it sit confirm this? I'm in no rush for the brew - just green apple is the last thing I want in it.



acetaldehyde is a sign of oxidation too. as you have read, yeast will clean up after themselves. if i was you, 4-6pints to terminal gravity i would let it raise to ambients to keep them active and ensure they cleanup wahtever they can.


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## razz (2/9/10)

I haven't used 2000 Manticle but I've had a couple of batches with acetaldehyde. How to get rid of it is no mystery, it just takes time. I take it you have left it on some yeast?


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## manticle (2/9/10)

Thanks guys. Mistype, now edited as it is 2007 which is displaying the apple character. Note the edit re- 2007 review which suggests some apple is common. 2000 version is currently lagering and tastes as I'd hope. Pretty clear already too - no finings or polyclar yet.

Fourstar - unlikely this is any more oxidised than any of the others. Possible, but unlikely. I will be raising the temp just off FG for a diacetyl rest so hopefully that gets rid of the apples too. As per usual, I'll leave it a further week after FG then start the lagering process.

@Razz - it's still fermenting so it's on yeast- racking resulted in increased activity and nice new krausen forming so maybe it had stalled a little? Was 1020 today when I measured it.


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## manticle (12/9/10)

Update:

Bottled the 2000 today as well as a german style lager I put down just prior. Both spent a good amount of time in secondary, both lagered for a bit over 2 weeks. Having only one fridge I had to use my laundry sink with frozen PET bottles for one fermenter and rely on cold melbourne weather. I swapped each fermenter around most days (so 12 hours in fridge, 12 hours in cold water bath ad nauseaum).

The 2007 version with rice is having a little diacetyl rest at the minute. Acetylaldehyde seems to have reduced a bit but time will tell.

Based on the sample I had while bottling, 2000 version was just what I'm chasing - malt forward, fresh PoR flavour, nice and clear (pretty sure I didn't fine and left out the polyclar).

German style lager was delicious, a bit cloudy but reminds me why I'm so in love with tettnanger.


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