# comparison chart for Australian vs UK and US grains



## David Grace (30/6/19)

Is there a comparison chart for Australian versions of UK and US grains and hops? My local home brew shop has a variety of grains, but they are not the same as what I find in UK and US recipes. Its the same with hops. 
The shop has a comparison chart, but it would be good to have my own version. 

Can anyone help?


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## splitice (18/8/19)

David Grace said:


> The shop has a comparison chart, but it would be good to have my own version.



Perhaps take a photo? Oh and share.


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## sponge (18/8/19)

If you get some brew software such as beersmith/promash/brewmate you can compare to your heart's content.


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## MHB (18/8/19)

In broad terms, Ale malt is Ale malt, Pilsner/Pale is Pilsner/…
You could substitute most any Ale malt with any other Ale malt, likewise for Pilsner
When it comes to specialty malts there are a couple of strands
Stewed Malts - Vienna, Munich, Dark Munich, Aromatic, Imperial, Abby... match on colour
Crystal Malts - Palest is Carapillis/Carrafoam, through to CaraAroma, again match on colour
Roasted Malts - Amber, Brown through to Chocolate or Black Patent, again match on colour.

If you are looking at a US malt that says something like Crystal 60, just double the 60 to get EBC (well close enough), so you would be looking for a Crystal malt at around 120EBC.

Don't think all Ale malts taste the same, they will have roughly similar brewing properties but might produce some quite different flavours. The much vaunted Maris Otter has a fairly unique taste, any substitute will lack this flavour as will the beer you make.

I generally try to match the malt I'm using to the style, if I'm brewing a Best Bitter I will use a UK Ale Malt because the beer will taste more like the beer I'm modeling. For mine its worth investing in the best fit I can find. Probably more noticeable in Malt Forward beers than highly hopped product. Make a classic Hefeweizen from German Pils/Wheat, do the same with Aus or US Pils/Wheat and you will really notice the difference. That in a beer that is predominantly Yeast flavoured.
Mark


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## splitice (18/8/19)

MHB said:


> Don't think all Ale malts taste the same, they will have roughly similar brewing properties but might produce some quite different flavours


That's actually what I was hoping for. Australian Ale malt and American Ale malt is an area of curiosity for me. I need to get some American and do a comparison brew at some point.


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## MHB (18/8/19)

I wouldn't, have only used US malt a couple of times and was pretty underwhelmed.
One of then set like a bowl of Uncle Tobies, so clearly a Glucan rest was required, the others were OK but nothing that I would spend extra dollars on.
For mine BB Ale is way better than Joe White and at least as good or better than the American base malts. Same in spades for specialty when you match them against other imports, UK and German malts are way ahead at very similar prices.
Mark


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## Simon N (18/8/19)

I used to find this page very helpful: https://www.thehopandgrain.com.au/malt-substitution-chart/


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## hoppy2B (19/8/19)

1


MHB said:


> In broad terms, Ale malt is Ale malt, Pilsner/Pale is Pilsner/…
> You could substitute most any Ale malt with any other Ale malt, likewise for Pilsner
> When it comes to specialty malts there are a couple of strands
> Stewed Malts - Vienna, Munich, Dark Munich, Aromatic, Imperial, Abby... match on colour
> ...



10 L = 25.2 EBC

So, very close to 2.5 times. I have that written down in a notebook. I take notes when I find useful information. I'm not sure where I found that piece of information though.


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## MHB (19/8/19)

Actually its 1.97 (approximately)
There are other ways to calculate it, but that's the easiest.
Mark


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## hoppy2B (20/8/19)

So I googled "convert lovibond to ebc" and hit the first link. This took me to Craft Beer and Brewing website straight to their online "Color Calculator" (US spelling). I typed 10 into the L section and it shot out 25.19 EBC and 12.79 SRM.

Here is the link for the calculator: https://beerandbrewing.com/tools/color-calculator/

So SRM and Lovibond are not identical. Which is where I think the difference between our methodology lies.


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## hoppy2B (20/8/19)

MHB said:


> Actually its 1.97 (approximately)
> There are other ways to calculate it, but that's the easiest.
> Mark
> View attachment 116353



1 SRM = 1.3 Lovibond = 1.97 EBC


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## MHB (20/8/19)

Meh - not going to make a lot of difference either way. These days the method for measuring both or even all three (EBC, Lovibond and SRM) have been unified. All three measure the colour of the product of a Congress Mash at the same colour, the only difference being that SRM multiplies by 12.7 and EBC by 25.
Wikipedia has a pretty good writeup on the methods and the history.
These days Lovibond is effectively dead, the name is still used but they are referring to the more modern SRM or EBC value.
Where it can get confusing is when people are looking at older publications (say pre 1990's) then its hard to work out what the hell they were using, go back a little further and its pre instrument measurement, just visual comparison, so all over the shop.
Mark


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## f00b4r (21/8/19)

The problem with English malsters is they are sometimes not even that similar between malsters, eg quoting a reply on a UK forum from a well known homebrewer Jocky that gives a good example (I am not sure about the rules on posting the actual link):


"The Crisp Amber is nice - a slightly nutty roast coffee flavour. It's 50 EBC colour. I've used 25% of the grist in a stout before as it's light enough to provide lots of flavour without too much harshness.

Thomas Fawcett amber is 100 EBC and it's the equivalent of the Crisp Brown malt. You need to be careful of introducing harshness, but I've used brown malt up to 20% so it's possible. It has a much stronger coffee flavour than the Crisp.

Minch Malt's amber seems to be somewhere between the two (45-90 EBC), and I'd treat it that way too. You'll need some experimentation to find how much works ok."

If memory serves UK Vienna and Munich malt can be very different to the German stuff too and significantly change a recipe if substituted 1:1. 

PS I am pretty sure he is taking about Graham Wheeler's "Entire" recipe at the more extreme ends of those amounts, a fantastic beer if you can get it to attenuate properly and probably unlike any porter that you may have tried before unless into historical recreations.


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## hoppy2B (21/8/19)

It's a lot like comparing apples and oranges. 

Take a handful of Caraaroma and have a smell of it and you will get a lovely sweet chocolate aroma. Do the same with some TF Dark Crystal and you get an unpleasant burnt kind of aroma that I have trouble describing. Brewing with them will also give you a different flavour. Apparently it is because they are prepared at different temperatures.

It takes years and much brewing experience to learn the difference between all the malts that are available.


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## MHB (21/8/19)

Yes - But, TF Dark Xal is around 200EBC and CaraAroma is around 400EBC so to make a beer the same colour you would use twice as much Dark Xal as CaraAroma. Much closer comparison would be CaraBohemian (~200ebc).
I would use a bit more CaraMunich3 (~150BC), to work out how much you can just use the old C1V1=C2V2
i.e. 400g of Dark Xal is equivalent to (400*200)/150=533g of CM3
That's why I said above that if you are looking for a substitute look for similar styles of malt at a similar colour.

Personally I would describe CaraAroma as having a Plumb Pudding flavour and aroma. CaraBohemian has a pretty unique flavour, first time I tasted it the first response was Schwartz Beer
Sure its going to take experience to learn exactly what you want from any given malt but the best place to start is by colour matching.
Mark


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