# Gripes about AHB



## Glot (16/12/13)

If you want a manager to fix a problem, don't go whinging to them. Take to them the problem AND the solution.
There seems to be a few longer time members that are unhappy with the current site. Perhaps offer constructive information rather than just saying " I don't like the site anymore" etc. If the admin is worth even peanuts, they will take all this on board and make decisions for the best outcome of AHB. Companies evolve and so do forums. Perhaps the site should be split into two. An old style and a new style. I don't know what it used to be like but it sounds like it filled a need. It still fills a need but perhaps different.
We all have bad or frustrating days but no one else really wants to hear about it.
Hopefully, the moderators will start tightening up on offensive and offending posts, listen to members suggestions, move the site forward.
Anyway, just my 2 cents worth.


----------



## Glot (16/12/13)

Remember, it is not compulsory to join this forum, view posts or answer posts to be a home brewer.


----------



## Dave70 (17/12/13)

Personally Glot, I dont mind hearing about peoples bad or frustrating days if for no other reason than it makes me feel better about mine.

Why do you think blues music is so popular?


No.
It's the superfluous 2c opinions that get my goat.


----------



## Truman42 (17/12/13)

I know..why don't we all just talk about brewing and brewing related topics. It seems all some members do these days is whinge and complain about moderation. And that's ALL THEY DO.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (17/12/13)

There is a Monty Python cartoon scene in the The Search fo the Holy Grail. It was the weather scene. The weather had decided to play by its own beat, missing the odd winter, jump all over the place and not being reasonable. 

Then god opens the door in the clouds pokes his head out and yells " Oih...knock it off...."

AHB needed that god.


----------



## Camo6 (17/12/13)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> There is a Monty Python cartoon scene in the The Search fo the Holy Grail. It was the weather scene. The weather had decided to play by its own beat, missing the odd winter, jump all over the place and not being reasonable.
> 
> Then god opens the door in the clouds pokes his head out and yells " Oih...knock it off...."
> 
> AHB needed that god.


Blasphemer! Worshipping false idols. You're not worthy of his sauce!


----------



## Cocko (17/12/13)

"Call the church police!"

THHHEEEE. CHUURRRCH. POOLIIICCCEE.




Edit: please note: This is a Monty Python quote, nothing more.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (17/12/13)

Could have been a trojan rabbit


----------



## Dave70 (18/12/13)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> There is a Monty Python cartoon scene in the The Search fo the Holy Grail. It was the weather scene. The weather had decided to play by its own beat, missing the odd winter, jump all over the place and not being reasonable.
> 
> Then god opens the door in the clouds pokes his head out and yells " Oih...knock it off...."
> 
> AHB needed that god.


Terry Gilliam's now a mod? 

Awesome!

Though some of his animations use to give me the odd nightmare as a child, it as worth it.


----------



## mje1980 (18/12/13)

I fart in this threads general direction


----------



## barls (18/12/13)

Ok peoples I think that's far enough off track lets get back to the actual topic now


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I (18/12/13)

Truman said:


> I know..why don't we all just talk about brewing and brewing related topics. It seems all some members do these days is whinge and complain about moderation. And that's ALL THEY DO.





Glot said:


> There seems to be a few longer time members that are unhappy with the current site. .......
> Hopefully, the moderators will start tightening up on offensive and offending posts, listen to members suggestions, move the site forward.
> Anyway, just my 2 cents worth.


This pretty much sums up the mods' position.

I would add that we lost a number of longer time members who were very very helpful, because they were unhappy with the site and the offensive and offending posts. Add in that now we do, we have the whinging to deal with as well.

This is a brewing forum. Primarily about brewing. Let's all talk about brewing and beer related stuff.

I would add, that the mods have spent a lot of time discussing, moderating and trying to get this forum as a great place for all (not the select few troublemakers). And now, because we're trying to fix up things, our workload has increased, because now we're 'required' to defend ourselves all the time.

I'll say it again - We don't get paid for this.

Other things behind the scenes we do is keeping the spammers and bots off. You'd be whinging if every second post was the latest steroid or penis-enlargement cream.


----------



## warra48 (18/12/13)

I endorse what Lord Raja Goomba 1 said.

We don't get paid, and reviewing every post is a time consuming undertaking.
And yes, every post is reviewed, so no one needs to feel they are singled out, as that just doesn't happen.

The rules and guidelines are clear, and written in plain language, and were adopted by every member on signing up to the forum.

Over the previous 6 months or so, I lost interest in the forum to a degree, because of the mudslinging etc which went on. However, I am happy to now again participate and do my bit to bring it back into line as a true brewing forum. There is some fantastic stuff on here, and it is a great resource. Let's all make sure it is and remains just that.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I (18/12/13)

warra48 said:


> Over the previous 6 months or so, I lost interest in the forum to a degree, because of the mudslinging etc which went on. However, I am happy to now again participate and do my bit to bring it back into line as a true brewing forum. There is some fantastic stuff on here, and it is a great resource. Let's all make sure it is and remains just that.


Exactly this.

If I hadn't been asked to be a mod, I'd probably have drifted completely away from AHB, as I had pretty much done.

Same reason. Nasty people, off-topic to the point of annoyance (rather than just Aussie larrikinism), no new information and the older members having all but disappeared.

This has rekindled my hope for AHB.

I wouldn't say I'm the most experienced member or that I've had any massive contributions, but I'm prepared to discuss brewing and hopefully someone that is capable of really given good information is part of the discussion. I also have been more than happy to help noobs out - again, you lose your intermediate members, the noobs lose out as well.


----------



## Dave70 (18/12/13)

barls said:


> Ok peoples I think that's far enough off track lets get back to the actual topic now


Alrighty then.

Here's my slightly strong cup of coffee driven take. 

AHB isn't my house, I didn't build it, I'm simply a guest. If I overstep what my hosts consider acceptable decorum and get pulled up or spanked, its a fair cop and I'll accept the refs decision.
In your house, it may be acceptable to put you grubby feet on the coffee table, express loud brainless opinions and call your wife a c*nt, in my house, it ain't, and if you do I'll ask to to change your behavior, if you refuse, I'll ask you to leave. 
Pretty ******* simple really.
This is no cowering capitulation on my behalf for fear of being 86'ed from the board, rather a simpler option than endless multi page bitch-fests about moderation standards. (yes, I get the irony..)

Now the phone wont stop ringing, so i gotta zipp.


----------



## philmud (18/12/13)

Is there a list of who the Mods are? Up until recently Bradsbrew was the only moderator whose activity I noticed, but threads like this make me aware of more. I primarily use the mobile site so don't see signatures etc. (assuming they are indicated there).


----------



## bradsbrew (18/12/13)

Prince Imperial said:


> Is there a list of who the Mods are? Up until recently Bradsbrew was the only moderator whose activity I noticed, but threads like this make me aware of more. I primarily use the mobile site so don't see signatures etc. (assuming they are indicated there).


At the bottom right of the forums page. There is a link to The Moderating team.


----------



## Florian (18/12/13)

Just out of interest, I see Adops is an Admin as well with zero posts. Is he on Austin's side doing the technical stuff?

EDIT: I'll stop posting now, 4 edits in two minutes is two much.


----------



## bradsbrew (18/12/13)

Yes, I believe he is working on software. Austin may be able to give more info on this though.


----------



## fletcher (18/12/13)

i find it funny when i see gripe posts, or ones referring to them and whatnot, because i don't recall any of the supposed rubbish that went on, although perhaps i just didn't care to find it or search for it. it's a site with rules. follow them or leave. what else is there to discuss? well done moderators on a tough job. these threads make me laugh just as much as any actual, unread-by-me gripes. let them die perhaps and move on? what are we, kindergarten kids?


----------



## Florian (18/12/13)

Florian said:


> Just out of interest, I see Adops is an Admin as well with zero posts. Is he on Austin's side doing the technical stuff?


 


bradsbrew said:


> Yes, I believe he is working on software. Austin may be able to give more info on this though.


Ha, got it now, his name is Adops, as in Ad ops.


----------



## GuyQLD (18/12/13)

I didn't really want to reply while on my phone, so apologies if the following ends up being a bit hard to read. However,

Those who cite that the place is not the same as it used to be, or find the off topic posts a bit much let me remind you that this is a home brewing site. How much discussion are you really going to encourage on a site with as many runs on the board as this one? The reality is most of us would digest the entire worth of this site (as far as actual information goes) within months if not weeks. 

At which point people will either look elsewhere if they want to expand their understanding or they'll hang around for the community aspect.

I'll be the first to say I spend most of my time in the off topic part of the site. I'm only a fairly new brewer (18 months) and I've out grown the vast majority of the stuff here. What I lack now is experience, and that'll only come with time and practice.

There's a reason DASFFS became a thing. The information is out there and available to anyone with enough initiative to go looking and not expect to be spoon fed.

Unfortunately that means robust discussion is going to be mostly a thing of the past, unless we have another biabesque revolution.

And while I'm not intending this to be a rant, I think the best example of how we're letting our self's down is the articles. Many of the simple, repetitive questions that drive people to distraction were all answered in those articles. You want to clean up? Give people access to the information they need easily and encourage people to look for themselves.

Which brings me back to the community aspect, it's a place for like minded individuals to talk about their hobby but we'd all get very bored very quickly if that's all we are allowed to talk about. Obviously I don't condone personal attacks or some of the other behaviors mentioned lately but when you think about the target audience of the site "family friendly" doesn't really come to mind.

Oh, and while I'm on a rant, props to manticle who has probably written about the only half dozen posts in the last 12 months I've learnt anything from. All of which because they pointed me in a direction where I could go and do some further reading off site, since actual proper technobabble doesn't seem to get much air time here.


----------



## Bribie G (18/12/13)

GuyQLD could have a good point about the BIABesque revolution thing. I was on another forum for a few years before brewing, the DTV forum, at a time when masses of interesting things were happening:

Introduction of digital TV
Wow Plasmas have dropped below $2000
Plasma vs LCD wars
Flat screen is crap, buy a HD cathode ray tube TV
How dare Channel 7 claim that 576p is High Definition
Will there ever be 1080p Plasmas?
Extra channels and Freeview, a pipe dream?
Blu-ray vs HDDVD wars

And so it went on, and the forum was huge with massive arguments, trolling etc.

Everything has been more or less settled down now, all the above are fading into history and really apart from whingeing about sports coverage most of the posts seem to be along the lines of "My topfield's timer seems to be out", or "best deals on 60 inch LEDs, anyone?

I drop in now and again, but don't contribute much any more.

It could well be that AHB is entering such a phase - we have a very large body of AG brewers, BIAB has earned its stripes as has RIMS, HERMS and Braumeister, and really there's no huge area of controversy or experiment happening much nowadays. So maybe its a good thing that AHB enters a "my airlock isn't bubbling" or "newb wants to make cider" phase. Still a comfy place to knock around in, but if you want the social aspect then the Off topic section is really the place.

I note that there is a UK forum I'm on that is probably as big as AHB and their "tap room" off topic section is mostly brew related anyway, Perhaps the Pub and Off Topic could be merged into a sort of tap room and leave the serious brewing business to the other threads as that UK forum very successfully does.


----------



## bradsbrew (18/12/13)

Bribie, that is exactly what we are trying to achieve. Keep the brew shed for technical stuff, use the Pub for general brewing convo that strays to a reasonable amount, use the off topic area as the social area. Use the market place for sales. Drop the personal attacks, snide comments and rudeness(DASFFS is pretty rude). If a post annoys you because its a silly question that the answer is easily found, leave it for someone else to reply or provide a link(LMGTFY is also rude). If a post offends you, report it. If you feel a post has bad advice, politely state your argument. If you state the place is F%$#ed you will be shown the door, that's what I would do at my house.


Cheers

Edit: My personal view as a member


----------



## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (18/12/13)

GuyQLD said:


> I didn't really want to reply while on my phone, so apologies if the following ends up being a bit hard to read. However,
> 
> Those who cite that the place is not the same as it used to be, or find the off topic posts a bit much let me remind you that this is a home brewing site. How much discussion are you really going to encourage on a site with as many runs on the board as this one? The reality is most of us would digest the entire worth of this site (as far as actual information goes) within months if not weeks.
> 
> ...


A fair statement Guy, but in the noobs defence, I would like to testify that when I joined the forum, I had never been on a forum before. so I always thought that if I asked for help, and made a well-discripted thread title i could be pointed in the direction of what i was looking for weather it be yeast, sanitisation, blah, blah. This is what i like about this forum, and the odd bit of larakinism aswell (but i guess it belongs in its place). I know i have been a drunken larakin more than once, but i know different now. I am trying to help those who ask now weather that question has been asked time and time before instead of saying DASFFS! In my opinion this will definately scare new comers away and im sure we dont want that (who knows that person may help you out one day with something they know that you dont).


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I (18/12/13)

_WALLACE_ said:


> A fair statement Guy, but in the noobs defence, I would like to testify that when I joined the forum, I had never been on a forum before. so I always thought that if I asked for help, and made a well-discripted thread title i could be pointed in the direction of what i was looking for weather it be yeast, sanitisation, blah, blah. This is what i like about this forum, and the odd bit of larakinism aswell (but i guess it belongs in its place). I know i have been a drunken larakin more than once, but i know different now. I am trying to help those who ask now weather that question has been asked time and time before instead of saying DASFFS! In my opinion this will definately scare new comers away and im sure we dont want that (who knows that person may help you out one day with something they know that you dont).


I think the important thing to realise is that the larrikinism isn't an issue and never has. A point in question is the IPA - Game of thrones thread. Bloke is clearly drunk, but it's funny, the thread is in the right place, and he doesn't take shots at anyone. Excellent. LRG as a mod ignores it, LRG as a member goes and has a laugh.

It's been abuse toward other members. It's been the nastiness directed at those less experienced on the forum. That's gotta stop. It's unacceptable behaviour in the real world, and it is here.

It's been the deliberate derailing of threads. This frustrates other users who want to post on topic or read or learn. Off topic section allows you to talk about anything not brewing related. It's my personal opinion (as a member) that some of the deliberate derailing has been to target members without being seen to abuse them.

Finally, remember we were all forum or AHB or brewing noobs once. We got something from this site, we should be prepared to give something back. If that's too hard, at least not noob-bashing.


----------



## beerkravin (18/12/13)

I lurk here and use google to search the site. I rarely even sign in.
it's not that i dont want to be a part of the site or community, i just want the information im after and move on.
i have seen some ridiculous comments made in threads, had my laugh and moved on.
i dont want to get involved in the rubbish that goes on here, there's plenty of other sites and forums with just as much if not better information that don't have the mounds of bollocks to wade through before you find what you're after.
i think once the site is cleaned up from that i will contribute but for now, while some of the information here is golden, i dont want any part of the crap.
also, just as an observation
if some of the stuff being said was in my house, i would kick people out too.
but if without the people my house is nothing more than a place for a handful of volunteers to compare appendages and tell stories about what they did when kicking people out... it's pretty pointless existing and valuable resources will be lost.
the internet is not real life, this is no-ones house and i think the comparison of that is some sort of justification to carry a big axe to chop down a few weeds.
i dont question the moderators intention, but i do question their methods at times and can see how other members would view it as an abuse of power.
A good starting point would be to encourage the wealth of knowledge that have stopped contributing, have left or have been kicked to return to AHB and contribute again, especially if the moderators are chopping out weeds more vigilantly.
just my opinion, happy to be chopped down and return to the lurkers corner.


----------



## Truman42 (18/12/13)

I used to cop a lot of shit when I first joined for asking questions that had already been asked. However often I would search the topic either to be confused by the replies I had read or to find contradicting information.
So I would ask the question to see if things have changed, processes are different now etc and inbetween all the smart arses who would say DASFFS, I would usually get a reply from someone decent enough to tell me that its not done that way anymore, or Palmer has changed his position on that now etc etc.

But I would also find members would deliberately hijack my threads to cause trouble then go and brag to their mates on other forums about what they did, like they were internet heroes. 
I have seen many a post on other forums about AHB where people have said something along the lines of.."You can find some information on AHB about that, if you could be bothered with all the crap.

Ive also met a few people through brewclub or when selling brew gear, such as beerkravin above who say they only read on AHB as they dont want to cop shit by asking a question and couldnt be bothered with all the shit..


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (18/12/13)

Yep. There was a LOT of that. Unfortunatly there are just so many threads and posts that it becomes hard to wade thru and decipher it all. Understandable why a newbie would ask. 

But bragging on another site...that just shows their level of (im)maturity.


----------



## jaypes (18/12/13)

Starting out brewing I learnt a great deal from this site, I also have a thick skin and disregards to what I thought was 'pissed idiots remarks in the big boys club'

I know by now who the great contributors are with their wealth of wisdom and the others who are just on here for they have nothing else to do.


----------



## Paul H (18/12/13)

Bribie G said:


> It could well be that AHB is entering such a phase ...... "newb wants to make cider" phase.
> 
> WTF I blame those who use fruit ........................it has no place in beer & amongst other things has contributed to the blowout in the budget....


----------



## TimT (18/12/13)

_I__ve also met a few people through brewclub or when selling brew gear, such as beerkravin above who say they only read on AHB as they dont want to cop shit by asking a question and couldnt be bothered with all the shit.._

That's very interesting Truman. Been around the web for a while now, on blogs and facebook and forums (though I'm relatively new to AHB) and there's a lot of people who may read but not post for reasons which sometimes seem mysterious (because, well, they don't post! And the net being what it is, you probably don't know them in real life anyway). It pays to be aware of that large, silent audience.

Personally I'm quite happy with threads having space for a lot of goofing off too, but the amount of that that's tolerated is completely up to the site owners and moderators.

One friend on facebook who's a moderator of a largish forum also started another forum, titled 'troll thread' - for all those who perhaps didn't feel fond of the moderation on the first forum, and wanted to blow off steam. Maybe there could be an official AHB troll thread! (Or maybe there already is....)


----------



## sponge (18/12/13)

RIP WPMO...


----------



## Camo6 (18/12/13)

sponge said:


> RIP WPMO...


Maybe at the start of it. I thought it became a bit of a noob bashing bitchfest towards the end tho. Only time I thought moderating was overdue on this forum.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (18/12/13)

It was supposed to be a WPMO about life in generall, not an AHB/noob bashing thread


----------



## AndrewQLD (18/12/13)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> It was supposed to be a WPMO about life in generall, not an AHB/noob bashing thread


And that is sadly how a lot of threads end up and something we are trying to prevent.


----------



## MartinOC (18/12/13)

:icon_offtopic: Erm.... OK, I've DASFFS (I had to Google that, so no-one needs to say LMGTFY - I had to Google THAT too!).

I understand that certain "cliquey" things have MLA's (Multi-Letter Acronyms), but WTF is "WPMO"?

YES, (that's not an acronym, BTW, but a word in the OED )
I've Googled it & only come up with "World Police Medical Officer", which completely escapes my comprehension in this context.

Any enlightenment to the uninitiated? I'd like to understand the meaning & current context.

A PM is fine (ie. don't clog the thread with crap).


----------



## GuyQLD (18/12/13)

_WALLACE_ said:


> A fair statement Guy, but in the noobs defence, I would like to testify that when I joined the forum, I had never been on a forum before. so I always thought that if I asked for help, and made a well-discripted thread title i could be pointed in the direction of what i was looking for weather it be yeast, sanitisation, blah, blah. This is what i like about this forum, and the odd bit of larakinism aswell (but i guess it belongs in its place). I know i have been a drunken larakin more than once, but i know different now. I am trying to help those who ask now weather that question has been asked time and time before instead of saying DASFFS! In my opinion this will definately scare new comers away and im sure we dont want that (who knows that person may help you out one day with something they know that you dont).


And I don't condone noob bashing any more than anyone else. But my point is, no one ever said "DASFFS" to me, because even as a complete noob, who was completely ignorant, I at least made attempts to find things and then asked for clarification. Personally I think some of those "why is my airlock not bubbling" threads *should *be locked.

I understand that on face value that seems like a not noob friendly principle; however if (and I know I keep going back to the articles example... but that's only because it's easy, don't take it as a criticism) those threads were locked with a simple "This question has been answered (link to articles) here, you can find many other answers to questions you might have in the articles section. If you have read all of the beginners guide to brewing (Did we have one? If not, why the hell not?) on the site and still have questions, please create a new thread with specific title, question etc"

Any way you get my point.

The other thing that wouldn't hurt is providing a bit of direction. I often look at those "style of the week" threads with a bit of sadness that I wasn't around when those were being created. I think that targetted, weekly topics are a fantastic addition to any discussion forum. finding topics is the real challenge (although having a "what topic should be next" doesn't hurt either).


----------



## MaltyHops (18/12/13)

MartinOC said:


> Any enlightenment to the uninitiated? I'd like to understand the meaning & current context.


_Reference: [ 1 ]_


----------



## Camo6 (18/12/13)

MartinOC said:


> :icon_offtopic: Erm.... OK, I've DASFFS (I had to Google that, so no-one needs to say LMGTFY - I had to Google THAT too!).
> 
> I understand that certain "cliquey" things have MLA's (Multi-Letter Acronyms), but WTF is "WPMO"?
> 
> ...


What Pisses Me Off is how these threads get derailed so easily!


----------



## Scottye (18/12/13)

So I had to Google DASFFS to see what it meant. My post count is fairly low given the two years or more since I joined maybe due to that acronym. I can empathise with what is being said here and I wonder why a Newbie should be denied the opportunity to interact with other Home Brewers just because all their questions have been asked before. If was the case then every forum would have a very limited life cycle and only those who joined at the beginning would experience the excitement of being involved, once it peaked the DASFFS's would start to occur and then the we'd be down the slippery slope to forum obsolescence.


----------



## Dave70 (18/12/13)

beerkravin said:


> the internet is not real life,


Its this level of disconnect from which many a shitfight is spawned, not least of which is the ubiquitous keyboard warrior / troll.

As unlikley as it is that I should meet anybody - not that I _wouldn't_ want to - from this board, I'm confident I'd not have to feel embarrased or run from my opinions.
No, the internet isn't 'real life' in the literal sence, but I sit typing these words as a _real _human being, with _real_ emotions.


One thing I can say, from meeting the odd person from other motorcycling forums, online arseholes tend to be real life arseholes also. And / or far less opinionated when standing around face to face with a bunch of blokes.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (18/12/13)

Unfortunatly there are noobs that do get on here and lay bait. And as much as you want to, taking the bait doesnt help.


----------



## sponge (18/12/13)

Camo6 said:


> Maybe at the start of it. I thought it became a bit of a noob bashing bitchfest towards the end tho. Only time I thought moderating was overdue on this forum.



Yea it did get that way towards the end. The ending of the post before mine reminded me of the start of WPMO..


----------



## stakka82 (18/12/13)

I struggle to understand all the hoo-ha really... Site is pretty good, I don't be a dickhead and so I have a source of information about brewing that is culturally Australian with a community feel. 

I've never really felt constricted by the rules, the only thing that pisses me off is pages of off topic b/s that really belongs in the chat or in real life. It's annoying, as others have stated, when you want to learn about something but only every 10th post is relevant... and it just seems stupid and a waste of internet space when you're trying to read about grists for alts or something and have to dodge around five year old in-jokes of people who mightn't even be here anymore.


----------



## Batz (18/12/13)

AndrewQLD said:


> And that is sadly how a lot of threads end up and something we are trying to prevent.


Most now in fact Andrew.

When I joined this site it consisted or around 150 members, of that 5-6 where online at anyone time. It was a nice friendly site and we were all learning about AG brewing. Posts consisted of nothing but brewing or help obtaining grain and hops, it was not easy to buy either of these years ago, and bulk buys where our life savers.

I became a moderator when the team numbered only 5, I was a shift worker so I spent many nights deleting spam posts. Spam was a major problem to our primitive site back then, nothing much else.

We now have almost 30,000 members, put 30,000 people together and your not all going to get on all the time. In fact in 30,000 people your going find a few wankers right?

To me personally it's all a bit much ATM, I have contacted admin and handed in my moderator badge.
This has nothing to do with the recent activity on this site, but I do find that very disturbing. I believe with the new moderators AHB can be a saved and improved for all true home brewers..

Austin has not been keen to remove my moderator status and I find that quite humbling, but I as Batz need a break after 10 years. I'll still be around the site of course, meanwhile....
I wish the new mods all the best, I wish AHB all the best, and I wish you all a Merry Xmas and a safe and Happy New Year.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (18/12/13)

+1 Batz

I remember when a lot of us early members moved accross to here from Grumpy's forum for some of the same reasons that have caused angst on here recently

Managing 30,000 members who enjoy and indulge in beer would be a tough ask.

It is fantastic to see, and be involved in the growth of this forum. 

And I will put my hand up for disruptive on occasions. Its the nature of the beast when passion & alchohol are involved


----------



## manticle (18/12/13)

I came onto this site maybe 5 or so years ago which is well after Batz's and ducatiboy's intro to it but I remember being overwhelmed by the lengths that many would go to to help ignoramuses like me to make better beer.

Here and there was some argy bargy but in amongst that was so much knowledge that people were willing to share: people giving away redundant equipment, sending links to brewing texts, answering every question like it mattered, etc.

As I've developed my understanding of brewing through both reading and experience, I've endeavoured to give back in a meaningful way because it wasn't long ago I was still adding brigalow hop finishing tablets and maltodextrin and thinking I was really getting towards great homebrewing. Without this site, I might not have developed the knowledge of brewing and love for it that I now have. With that knowledge comes an understanding that that is just the tip of the iceberg and there's so much more I could know and want to know.

Sharing what I have learned has often been appreciated, sometimes denigrated by those who thought I should brew more and post less but most more knowledgeable brewers seemed to understand I was trying to continue a cycle of generosity that was shown to me.

It still exists among brewers and the great thing here is that the community can and does extend offline - case swaps, brewclubs, beer comps or showing someone interested how to brew all grain beer and share a few. For my part, I'd like to see the signal to noise ratio increased in favour of the signal and for people to treat each other here as they would at a case swap. Doesn't always work and people don't always get along (I hate lots of people, lots of the time and have had a few passionate run-ins with more than one member) but it isn't hard to at least try if you're a sensible adult.

I also want less hearsay and more experience and/or brewing science and unfortunately many of the more tech minded contributors have moved on. I'd love to see them back or see more join - we've had great contributors here like Kai from braukaiser, Dr Smurto, Martin from brun water, Thirsty Boy, Butters, Brewer Pete, Postmodern, MHB and many others who for one reason or another have moved on. They added a lot to the site but if those that do wish to stay make an effort in turn to learn (AHB is not the only resource) and to pass on that knowledge with generosity of spirit, this will become a worthwhile place regardless of (or even because of) a large membership base. Knowledge is not repeating mantras or myths - educate yourself as much as you can and try it out in your own brewing. Even if you've been brewing for 15-20 years, there's always a bit more knowledge, a new technique, something you haven't tried.

That's what I aim to encourage both as a member and as a new mod. Anyone who's met me should know that my personality here is pretty similar to how it is away from the keyboard. Basically I crap on too much, like helping people and love drinking beer.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (18/12/13)

Have seen so many things that have evolved ftom this place. The birth of new breweries,the establishment of new businesses,the introduction of new technology...the brewing of beer ( strange but true )

AHB has changed. Aagain. As it has before. But it is still AHB underneath


----------



## Bribie G (18/12/13)

The suggestion has been made that, when the site has settled down and the new modding arrangements are well understood that a list of lapsed members be invited back on ? Their email addresses would be on the system.

Of course some have left for reasons other than being fed up with the site, family and work commitments or just taken up wingsuit flying or another hobby instead, still others may have been banned but, when directed to the current rules, may be invited to return but toe the line, and there would surely be some who would shrug their shoulders and say, well why not give it another go.

What does Admin think of that idea, to get some quality posters back in the fold?

edit: a bit like an amnesty


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I (18/12/13)

Bribie, one of the reasons mods discussed the clean up was with a view to inviting back old members, particularly ones disenchanted with the garbage.

I'm sure admin and mods will discuss amnesties as an extension of this.


----------



## fletcher (18/12/13)

Bribie G said:


> The suggestion has been made that, when the site has settled down and the new modding arrangements are well understood that a list of lapsed members be invited back on ? Their email addresses would be on the system.
> 
> Of course some have left for reasons other than being fed up with the site, family and work commitments or just taken up wingsuit flying or another hobby instead, still others may have been banned but, when directed to the current rules, may be invited to return but toe the line, and there would surely be some who would shrug their shoulders and say, well why not give it another go.
> 
> ...


i second this idea


----------



## MartinOC (18/12/13)

I fourth this idea.

Erm..did I miss the the thirding??

The recent "flush" seems already to have had a positive effect.


----------



## TidalPete (18/12/13)

The


> suggestion has been made that, when the site has settled down and the new modding arrangements are well understood that a list of lapsed members be invited back on ? Their email addresses would be on the system.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Bribie,
Sounds a bit like Tony Abbott inviting our mate Kevin to supervise the reinvention of a Better Australia????

Hahahaha!

Bad luck if I'm going to be modified. h34r:


----------



## bradsbrew (18/12/13)

Can't give you an answer on that at this time Bribie as it would involve a great deal of consideration and discussion. I am not dismissing but lots of things would need to be covered in detail. At this point in time my main aim is to get AHB back to a friendly place to visit and learn.


To be honest the last week has been my hardest as a member, I have had to make some pretty tough decisions, I am fortunate to have a great team of people to bounce ideas off and give me different points of view before a decision is made. The current mod team is a great diverse bunch of brewers that have helped immensely. The support we have all received from Austin has been fantastic.

Also Batz- you have been a pillar for this community, you will always be an honorary moderator in my book.


Cheers


----------



## pk.sax (18/12/13)

Anyone thought the pool of genuinely sensible brewers joining the site might be a declining %?

I haven't seen hazing given to newbs that do try to help themselves. Personally I've gotten to just ignore anything that doesn't interest me, and even then if it's very very 'please spoon feed' me like. Some don't. There is an element of political correctness gone wrong when someone told to go DASFFS goes and whinges about that and then mods pull up the guy suggesting a DASFFS. What do you expect the brewer to do when brewing? See a shade of yellow unknown and log on to AHB for an explanation? That kinda ppl get very irritating. It'd be another thing if they talk sense and give detail etc but most can be very sketchy on detail because perhaps they don't understand the process and simply follow by rote and can't be bothered/able to help themselves first. Disdain of that behaviour is nothing unbecoming and a mod telling someone otherwise because it's 'their' forum doesn't change that.

Besides some good discussions every now and then most new topics are tending to be useless rehash, is it that surprising people don't want to read them and the few that do are looking for a fight? Fighting the symptom there, you are, mods. There is a basic quality problem. A bit more discipline all round will be a lot more helpful than targeted modding. The politer mods don't seem to cop abuse either, just the trigger happy ones.

Again, if there isn't interest in keeping some life in here, then wgaf. Maybe the aim is to have an endless barbie house with all the models of the dolls in an endless setting of doll rooms.


----------



## TidalPete (18/12/13)

Though my earlier response to my response in Post 54 didn't happen I'm very happy to post this one re Batz's Post above.

I can emphasize with Batz about the better ‘atmosphere’ in the old AHB which IMHO DID contribute to a much better forum in all aspects over what we have at this moment of time.
A better world, a better place.

But for better or for worse this joint has to go onwards & upwards (Maybe?) with the new owners & I would like all AHB’s to acknowledge Batz’s great contribution to this forum. :super:

His efforts over the years can only be applauded & congratulated.
Not that we haven’t had our moments but nobody can take away the excellent contributions that Batz has given to us all on AHB & for that I thank you Batz absolutely. 

Don’t read too much into this Batz. :wub: :lol:


----------



## bradsbrew (18/12/13)

Batz, get out of petes account! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Well deserved kind words Pete. :beerbang:


----------



## tazman1967 (18/12/13)

Gee... 3 pages of thread, and not a comment from Bum ??? WTF..


----------



## Cocko (19/12/13)

BACK ON TOPIC:

So its 'Gripes' about the current... or more so what 'was' and how it 'used to be'

For lack of a better saying "Lets not use the past, to try and change the future"

"Cant we just make it how it used to be" - No, we are here now. Lets move in to the future, being tomorrow and right now, in fact.

For the historians, wake up, deal with it. Lets move forward [My least favourite term]

Ok, Give respect to the ones who founded this place but now the place is founded and today is exactly that... TODAY.

2c.


----------



## boingk (19/12/13)

I've been here a while, and don't engage in trolling/whinging/etc type posts.

I will help someone with something if I think I can, but will not indulge someones every whim. Eg type/amount/method of hop, but not if they will like it!

People can get too wrapped up in stuff. If you think someone is having a go and you see a few posts of that type from them, simply report it to the mod squad and option to not see that persons posts anymore. Easy.

Cheers all, now RAHAHB! (Relax And Have A Home Brew!)

- boingk


----------



## AHB_Admin (19/12/13)

bradsbrew said:


> Yes, I believe he is working on software. Austin may be able to give more info on this though.


It's a central admin account for programmers to access now. It has limitations in place. 



Camo6 said:


> What Pisses Me Off is how these threads get derailed so easily!


That is an issue, one we're trying very hard to correct. 



stakka82 said:


> I struggle to understand all the hoo-ha really... Site is pretty good, I don't be a dickhead and so I have a source of information about brewing that is culturally Australian with a community feel.
> 
> I've never really felt constricted by the rules, the only thing that pisses me off is pages of off topic b/s that really belongs in the chat or in real life. It's annoying, as others have stated, when you want to learn about something but only every 10th post is relevant... and it just seems stupid and a waste of internet space when you're trying to read about grists for alts or something and have to dodge around five year old in-jokes of people who mightn't even be here anymore.


As someone learning brewing (and a handful of other hobbies) I find it hard to get the info I need while sifting through post that have nothing to do with the subject matter. As brewing increased in popularity we will see more new people,and it's important we provide them with the information they need to make the right decisions. 



Bribie G said:


> The suggestion has been made that, when the site has settled down and the new modding arrangements are well understood that a list of lapsed members be invited back on ? Their email addresses would be on the system.
> 
> Of course some have left for reasons other than being fed up with the site, family and work commitments or just taken up wingsuit flying or another hobby instead, still others may have been banned but, when directed to the current rules, may be invited to return but toe the line, and there would surely be some who would shrug their shoulders and say, well why not give it another go.
> 
> ...


We can discuss it. Typically the answer would be no, but I'm trying to understand moderating through an Aussie's perspective. My greatest challenge in all this has been to discern the cultural differences, and bring people into the fold that can help me better understand the needs of the community. 

What would be considered abrasive in other communities is understood and outright demanded here. It's been great getting things back on the right path, and the team we now have is energetic and ready to get AHB back on the right course. 

Like all communities, online or otherwise, we will grow and change. What and who was here last year might not be there next year, but growth and change is not a reason to mourn, but to celebrate. The potential of this community is amazing. In just a couple of weeks the mods have managed to get things on the right path, and have done so through clear and concise communication, setting the example for the rest of the forum. 

I'm both proud and happy to be a part of this community, and that sense grows as we move into the new year. I'm excited by our potential.


----------



## Dave70 (19/12/13)

Cocko said:


> Lets move in to the future,
> 
> 
> 2c.



Please set the example by changing your opinion to the more base ten friendly 5c. 
Your living in the early 90's man.


----------



## Cocko (19/12/13)

Dave70 said:


> Please set the example by changing your opinion to the more base ten friendly 5c.
> Your living in the early 90's man.



Well played, sir.

Now, show me hover boards!!


----------



## TimT (19/12/13)

_but I'm trying to understand moderating through an Aussie's perspective...What would be considered abrasive in other communities is understood and outright demanded here._

Well on the basis that there's nothing nicer than hearing other people talk about you, I'd be very very interested to know what it is that we Aussies do differently to others. I dunno.... do we utter a few more 'bloody idiots' or 'stupid nongs' than in other countries?


----------



## MartinOC (19/12/13)

> _but I'm trying to understand moderating through an Aussie's perspective...What would be considered abrasive in other communities is understood and outright demanded here._
> 
> Well on the basis that there's nothing nicer than hearing other people talk about you, I'd be very very interested to know what it is that we Aussies do differently to others. I dunno.... do we utter a few more 'bloody idiots' or 'stupid nongs' than in other countries?


I think Austin is referring to the favourite Aussie sport of "Bagging". It's part of our culture to poke fun at someone & it's absolutely expected that you'll get it back in spades.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I (19/12/13)

bradsbrew said:


> To be honest the last week has been my hardest as a member.....
> 
> Also Batz- you have been a pillar for this community, you will always be an honorary moderator in my book.
> 
> ...


I second it being the hardest week as a member. It's hard seeing the steady decline of a place, another thing to being involved in discussing tough decisions. It's not fun, and when you get the backlash we've had and you question each of your own decisions or inputs in the group, and others outside the group have been giving it to you. Without sounding like I'm giving out lots of compliments to the mods/myself - if we didn't believe in what this place was, is and has the potential to be, the last week would have been enough to make a few give up.

I'd add in that some of the mods spent their weekends on mobile phones accessing AHB, and discussing and modding and organising stuff behind the scenes around our "real lives". Even if you don't agree 100% with the decision, please don't doubt our committment.

For those that say "I only log on to read" or "I don't feel the need to help every noob" - 90% of us were noobs. Sites like this wither when no-one who has the knowledge shares it. If you got knowledge, please share on, even if the questions are a bit spoonfed. There's nothing wrong with discussing hops to infinity or yeast to infinity. One day, the site you used (and might again use for a highly technical idea/tip) mightn't be here because too many people took the path of "I'll use it but I won't participate".

Second, Third, Fourth about Batz. Absolute legend, and this game has been hard for him as virtually alone. Should remain a mod, pro member and anything else.


----------



## Scooby Tha Newbie (19/12/13)

I'm a noob. Joined here bc a friend told me about the site. His little boy and mine play soccer together. I wanted to get into brewing beer he had been doing it for years(biab).So I went around for a brew day at his place (or three).I was very excited to start brewing.So much so I hopped on here and found a thread for cider that I could start strait away whilst waiting for my burner and other stuff to arrive.I asked some very stupid questions.I've always found plp here helpfull. This site is very good I feel,every time I log on I learn something new. Keep up the good work mods and admins.


----------



## Scooby Tha Newbie (19/12/13)

beerkravin said:


> I lurk here and use google to search the site. I rarely even sign in.
> it's not that i dont want to be a part of the site or community, i just want the information im after and move on.
> i have seen some ridiculous comments made in threads, had my laugh and moved on.
> i dont want to get involved in the rubbish that goes on here, there's plenty of other sites and forums with just as much if not better information that don't have the mounds of bollocks to wade through before you find what you're after.
> ...






fletcher said:


> i second this idea


----------



## mosto (19/12/13)

I'm not sure this place has gone completely to rack and ruin as seems to be the general opinion. I still find it a valuable resource, as well as a place to have a bit of a laugh.

Has it declined in the relatively short time I've been here? Slightly

Does it require an increase in moderating activity to clean up some of the shit fights? Probably, but only a little, and I'm glad to see blokes I've learnt heaps off like manticle and Qld Kev become mods. 

I'd hate to see it come to a point where a noob asks "Why isn't my airlock bubbling?", and someone wasn't allowed to make a AHB specific joke about it being clogged with kittens. I didn't get the joke when I started, but seen it referenced so often I searched it, found the origin of it and pissed myself laughing. I still have a bit of a smile if I see a kitten in the airlock joke. But I do get the part about being helpful as well, so maybe someone could answer the airlock question with "Have you checked it for kittens lol, but seriously, piss your airlock off and use gladwrap".

What I'm getting at is tidy the place up a little, but please don't go overboard. For example, I recently seen someone given a warning 'on the run', as it were, for referencing another brewing forum. Seriously? Now if they're on here saying "Come over to Bob's Brewing Blog, it's much better than this s*%thole", then fair enough, they don't like it here, show them the door. But if someone asks about converting hopping schedules for no chilling and someone else says "Check out this article on Bob's Brewing Blog, has heaps of good info", then what's the problem? Surely they're just answering a question on brewing, the main purpose of AHB.

Finally, to posters in general, if you do find a post offensive, either ignore it, report it, or take it up with the poster via PM. I recently made a post which offended QldKev, he didn't jump into the same thread with an abusive post, he PM'd questioning my post, I explained that it was not meant how he had interpreted it and apologized for inadvertently causing offence, he apologized for taking it the wrong way. We settled it like adults. I'll bet 9 times out of 10 if you contact someone who's offended you, there'll be a reasonable explanation, such as there was with QldKev and I, but if you jump in abusing the poster, they'll probably abuse you back, funnily enough, and that's when the bitchfest begins.

Cheers,


----------



## wbosher (19/12/13)

> I'm glad to see blokes I've learnt heaps off like manticle and Qld Kev become mods.


Couldn't agree more with this. The current mods, and Batz, are held in high regard by me, as they have really helped me with my brewing over the last year or so. And from what I've seen, they are also respected by some of the old hands around here too.

Hopefully good things to come.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I (19/12/13)

We're not going to get rid of kitten jokes or larrikinism, just trying to tone down the abuse and going too off topic. That seems to universally frustate people.

Also, look at the positives. We're asking for consultation and feedback as to _how_ to mod (what standards, the points system). Looking for site improvements and implementing them (if possible) expediently (the thread about a separate BIAB topic is one being discussed). This sort of stuff wasn't always possible with lower mod and admin numbers, but it's now happening. We're not standing up, beating our chest and playing dictator and not asking for ideas and consultation. We're looking to engage, because we are members of this forum first and foremost.


----------



## pcmfisher (19/12/13)

I think this forum has done pretty well to have run for this long before the rot started to set in considering the pissed while typing effect.

From what I can see, all forums have a limited life span, especially the ones with a particular topic ie beer or fishing, as against generic types like reddit etc.

When they are new there are lots of different ideas being tossed around, everyone is learning and contributing, all is fun.
When is the last time you saw constant shit fighting on a new forum?

Then after a number of years it reaches some sort of invisible critical mass. 
Everything has been discussed, many times.
You end up with the same small percentage of a large number of members contributing.
Nothing new comes up. 
Knowledgeable members leave or don't post anymore as they have seen it all.
Slanging matches. Bitching. Its always the same.
New members think - WTF is this?


Whats the answer? Good luck mods.
Its never an easy job, but mostly it is done well.

There was a site I frequented that was similar to AHB in respect to age and staleness.
Boring, bitching. (It was also over moderated, but we won't go into that.)

Anyway, the owner pulled the plug on it. All the information was lost.
A new site was formed by a co op of 5 or 6 of the original members.
Everyone who logged onto the old site was directed towards the new site.
The rebuilding process has started. What is being posted now is huge. I think the new site is better than the old one ever was.


Try this here? h34r: h34r:


----------



## TimT (19/12/13)

I've only joined relatively recently but I find this site an invaluable resource, so from my perspective, keep up the good work!


----------



## beerkravin (19/12/13)

Dave70 said:


> Its this level of disconnect from which many a shitfight is spawned, not least of which is the ubiquitous keyboard warrior / troll.
> 
> As unlikley as it is that I should meet anybody - not that I _wouldn't_ want to - from this board, I'm confident I'd not have to feel embarrased or run from my opinions.
> No, the internet isn't 'real life' in the literal sence, but I sit typing these words as a _real _human being, with _real_ emotions.
> ...


Please, don't take me out of context. I was referring to the correlation between moderating an internet forum and moderating behavior in your house. Not the same thing.
If someone is offensive in my home, i would kick them out. But if someone is offensive to me on the internet, and im hurt by that, then maybe the internet isn't for me.
Not saying i condone trolling or abusive behavior, but that is the nature of the internet beast, just the way it is and the way it's been for a very long time.
People need to be made aware and prepared for that.
If you aren't confident to drive 100 in a 100 zone, then maybe you should find another way to get where you're going rather than hold up the rest of the traffic. this is the reason i don't contribute here, i don't want to be a part of an argument, derailment or a troll. i just want the info, so ive found another way to go, in this instance, lurking.
not that im a newb or anything, ive been an all grain brewer for many many years and have assisted in professional breweries numerous times.
im just old enough, and i hope wise enough to know that when it comes to an internet fight, excluding yourself in the first instance is better, especially if you are sensitive to keyboard warriors.
I hope im also wise enough to know that a flame thrower in the power of someone who is trying to control a fire, isnt going to stop the building burning down.
sorry if that's all a little cryptic, it's been a long night\day and i really don;t want to offend\upset anyone.
just my observations as a lurker. i hope you guys can work it all out.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I (19/12/13)

No worries beerkravin.

Hoping we can convert more experienced lurkers into contributors by being vigilant and making this a great place to be.


----------



## Dave70 (19/12/13)

beerkravin said:


> If you aren't confident to drive 100 in a 100 zone, then maybe you should find another way to get where you're going rather than hold up the rest of the traffic. this is the reason i don't contribute here, i don't want to be a part of an argument, derailment or a troll. i just want the info, so ive found another way to go, in this instance, lurking.


Never mind that, I don't contribute much either. What the hell can I tell the likes of manticle? (other than subjective stuff like his taste in music makes make me want to self harm) Actually, I'd guess about 10% of the members constitute about 100% of the knowledge base, making the rest of us kind of redundant shit kickers and chuckleheads.. 
Doesn't mean you cant burrow yourself in like a tick and come along for the ride. 

But hey, if it's not your bag, so be it.
You and your voyeuristic endeavors are most welcome.


----------



## recharge (19/12/13)

AHB has always been my go to site for home brewing.
Clearly i have been away long enough to miss the alleged crapfest.
I have been out of the scene for a while.
I don't post a lot usually because a question has usually been answered and I won't have anything different to add.
That said I am always willing to help.
Maybe those that don't want to answer the Noob questions can leave them to those that were noobs last month and can easily consolidate their recent learnings.
I am far from a great brewer and always have questions and nearly always find the answer without asking, but we are not all the same.
I would also think that newcomers asking questions whether or not they have been answered before helps them to become part of conversations that ultimately leads to becoming part of this community.

My 5c

Rich


----------



## yum beer (19/12/13)

Amongst all the 'shit' that is supposedly flooding the forum it seems that it is still providing adequate knowledge to those that need it....
 
 
 
 
 



Members






17 posts
Joined 10-December 13

Location:Terrigal NSW


Posted Today, 10:29 AM
Thanks to everyone whom has offered advice to me over the past couple of weeks . Very glad I joined this site. Such a great vibe for an up and coming Brewster


----------



## yum beer (19/12/13)

i do like the new moderation being clear and upfront for all to see...we will get to know what we can and can't do, its hard to stay behind the line if you can't see it.


----------



## rehabs_for_quitters (19/12/13)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> No worries beerkravin.
> 
> Hoping we can convert more experienced lurkers into contributors by being vigilant and making this a great place to be.


The easiest way to convert lurkers and new brewers is drop the whole thread count under the avatar on each post, that way members who have experience brewing and a lot of knowledge will be listened to, as people won't base the answers on thread count equals knowledge

I tried to offer the correct advice but as I had 1 or 2 posts I obviously didn't know what I was talking about and the advice was ignored, I am not the most knowledgeable brewer in the world but I have been AG for three odd years, K&K on and off for 10 years and distilling for quite a few as well, I think if you showed thread count in users profile dropped it from the forum proper you'd have a lot more willing participants and it would get rid of the posting for the sake of posting to have a who's got the biggest thread count comp,


----------



## beerkravin (19/12/13)

Dave70 said:


> Never mind that, I don't contribute much either. What the hell can I tell the likes of manticle? (other than subjective stuff like his taste in music makes make me want to self harm) Actually, I'd guess about 10% of the members constitute about 100% of the knowledge base, making the rest of us kind of redundant shit kickers and chuckleheads..
> Doesn't mean you cant burrow yourself in like a tick and come along for the ride.
> 
> But hey, if it's not your bag, so be it.
> You and your voyeuristic endeavors are most welcome.


lol, i like your tick analogy 
ok, taken on board, i may contribute going forward.

i DO like to watch


----------



## dago001 (19/12/13)

Dave70 said:


> What the hell can I tell the likes of manticle? (other than subjective stuff like his taste in music makes make me want to self harm)


OT - I agree 100% with this statement. And he's not on his own either, there some weird music out there, and plenty of people who like it.
Back on topic - I've been on here for around 4 years, and have seen a lot of experienced brewers leave. I dont know why they leave, and I dont really care, apart from the fact that this site looses a valuable member. I can remember early on looking at some of manticles posts from when he started brewing, and the help and encouragement that he received. It was those types of posts that gave me the courage to not only post but research before I posted. Yes I was a noob, and now with a couple of hundred all grain batches under my belt, I am still a noob. I dont tell noobs to do a search, and will reply to posts when I have something of use to offer. I do get annoyed with people who continually ask questions, after being directed to relevant sections of the forum that answers the questions, but in saying that, I dont ever comment. Thats the mods job to sort that stuff out.
My biggest gripe on here is - if somebody asks for help, there are normally too many posters who want to bag them out. Quite often the OP is not a noob. Recently there was a post requesting a recipe for a Brown Ale for a bloke who was going to contract brew. The first 4 post were all telling him he was going to fail. Not one recipe???
I can live with all the characters on here, it makes it interesting. Even the weird music thread, as I dont think with out that, I would have heard anything that god dammed awful in my everyday life. What I dont need is some of the rudeness and intolerance that is displayed in some threads.
Too much off topic, not enough beer. I dont care if a beer topic is rehashed a hundred times, we can teach new users about the search function and forum ettiquette without being rude and obnoxious. When i started on here the search fuction was shit. Even today, for new forum users, it doesnt always do what we think it will or produce results that we think we are going to get. If somebody posts in the wrong section, can we just move it, its not that big a deal. It doesnt need 10 people to say its wrong.
Anyway, I'm still here, and still enjoying the place.
Cheers
LB


----------



## manticle (19/12/13)

I think manticle has impeccable taste in music myself. Don't think I've ever disagreed with one of his choices in the 'What are you listening to?' thread.

Not one. Couldn't say that about anyone else.


----------



## tavas (19/12/13)

You might change your mind when you realise he's been drinking your beer.


----------



## fletcher (19/12/13)

pcmfisher said:


> I think this forum has done pretty well to have run for this long before the rot started to set in considering the pissed while typing effect.
> 
> From what I can see, all forums have a limited life span, especially the ones with a particular topic ie beer or fishing, as against generic types like reddit etc.
> 
> ...


i think this is very true. even though many people move on, there are still lots of people here who offer newer people great help and advice. it's like a circle of life; lion king-esque. it's not _bad_ that it happens. it's just par for the course. we can't keep discussing the same things over and over and it continue to be trail-blazingly new material. doesn't mean it's bad. keep on truckin. the site is great. move along if you're bored or 'over it', or invent a time machine.


----------



## dago001 (19/12/13)

manticle said:


> I think manticle has impeccable taste in music myself. Don't think I've ever disagreed with one of his choices in the 'What are you listening to?' thread.
> 
> Not one. Couldn't say that about anyone else.


I heard he was a self opinionated music critic with a secret desire to be a disco diva. But anyway back on topic,
The concept that we (the users and the forum in general) are just rehashing the same thing over and over, always brings up new ideas, techniques etc. Case in point, the recent 10 min IPA thread led me to try a 30 min boil for an APA. Gotta say I like the beer and the time saved and got me thinking about other parts of my brewday that could either challenge me to new level, and or make my brew days quicker and easier.
Cheers
LB


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I (19/12/13)

I'm with LB. I know some members say "what's the use of talking about the same things, ad nauseum?".

But sometimes it does trigger something new. We can never know everything and even experienced brewers don't always agree on the same things (eg. the botulism no-chill debate).

If I'd stuck to Nick's stovetop method or gone onto the classic BIAB method, I'd not have figured out another 'method' of sorts. It's nothing ground-breaking but I've had those who want to trying all grain, but don't want to shell out for an urn, and don't want to do maxi-BIAB or 9L all the time say that it's helped them try-before-you-buy. All that was, was me getting around my non-existent handyman skills and bothering to write about it.

LB - make an APA, now *this* I've gotta see!


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (19/12/13)

manticle said:


> I think manticle has impeccable taste in music myself. Don't think I've ever disagreed with one of his choices in the 'What are you listening to?' thread.
> 
> Not one. Couldn't say that about anyone else.


Not sure how your going to take this manticle, but Justin Bieber said he was going to retire after his next album.

Pretty sure counseling will be available.


----------



## shaunous (19/12/13)

So can we get clarification here. Using the word [email protected]&k, ok in circumstances and moderation. Using the c&@t, flat out no no and warning time.

I accidentally type a lot of swear words and after re-reading my post later I then realise and edit them out. Old habits from ICQ and MSN Chats.

Shaun.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I (19/12/13)

No clear policy on swearing and C&@t has been used without moderation.

We're not the moral police. It's about context, moderation and treating others with respect.


----------



## TimT (19/12/13)

Lord Raja Goomba, intriguing. I just googled your method.

I've been doing AG brewing too, and I don't want to shell out for an urn (which wouldn't fit in this house anyway). The chap on your thread who said your method is 'redundant' would be even more appalled by my method. I mash in one pot, and then sparge through a cheesecloth into another pot! Results aren't too bad, though I need to improve mash efficiency. I like getting down and dirty with the grains - like making bread without a breadmaker, I think you get to know the whole process more intimately this way.


----------



## punkin (19/12/13)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> No clear policy on swearing and C&@t has been used without moderation.
> 
> We're not the moral police. It's about context, moderation and treating others with respect.



That's good to hear, i'll be remembering that.


----------



## dago001 (19/12/13)

All that was, was me getting around my non-existent handyman skills (*Seen the video, he aint joking) *and bothering to write about it.

LB - make an APA, now *this* I've gotta see!
Brewed a few lately, been on the lower end of the hop scale.
Sorry for the OT
Cheers
LB


----------



## Camo6 (19/12/13)

LagerBomb said:


> All that was, was me getting around my non-existent handyman skills (*Seen the video, he aint joking) *and bothering to write about it.


OT- Lol! Just watched one of the vids LRJ. I love it when your young bloke pipes up with "You're very strong." My 2yr old demands to come with me down to the shed now and swing on the taps. She had a bit of trouble controlling the head on my saison but I let her off as she's used to lower carb rates. ( Before I get poo-pooed I believe it's important to teach them about responsible alcohol service)


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I (19/12/13)

I ahve 4 daughters......


----------



## Camo6 (19/12/13)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> I ahve 4 daughters......


I typed young 'bella.' Bloody spellcheck.













:blush:


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I (19/12/13)

Just goes to show, dodgy DIY can produce award winning beer.


----------



## punkin (19/12/13)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Just goes to show, dodgy DIY can produce award winning beer.



I'd like to think you blokes are not dragging this thread off topic


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I (19/12/13)

This thread potentially breaks rules 10 and 11. Maybe it's a reminder of what's good about the forum?

Okey dokey blokeys, let's get back to griping about AHB.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (19/12/13)

Lets not.



.


----------



## shaunous (19/12/13)

punkin said:


> I'd like to think you blokes are not dragging this thread off topic


Gold!


----------



## Camo6 (19/12/13)

punkin said:


> I'd like to think you blokes are not dragging this thread off topic


IMO if the discussion (be it sidetracked or not) is about beer, brewing beer, drinking beer, buying beer, pouring beer, improving beer, sharing beer or anything beer related, it should never be considered 'off-topic.' Believe it or not I frequent this site primarily to discuss beer. Being an extra on Home and Away is just a perk.


----------



## bradsbrew (19/12/13)

It' s a non brewing topic in the pub. It's not in a technical area of the brew shed. Deliberate attempts to cause a bad vibe will be viewed differently.


----------



## Camo6 (19/12/13)

Hence the smiley face!


----------



## WitWonder (19/12/13)

What about having different "levels" of experience/membership and to go up 'levels' you have to earn 'points'? So, for example, we all obviously start off as newbie members, then, in order to 'progress' up the membership levels you need to do certain things like, respond in the new brewers forum for a while and help them before you can move up and be able to post in the 'experienced' brewers section. That way, you encourage members to assist each other with small 'rewards' for doing so which means it's not the same people answering the same new brewer questions all the time and experienced brewers have their own 'area' to go to where they don't get bothered by basic questions and can discuss other more technical matters? My 2c. Off for another HB.


----------



## punkin (20/12/13)

bradsbrew said:


> It' s a non brewing topic in the pub. It's not in a technical area of the brew shed. Deliberate attempts to cause a bad vibe will be viewed differently.



So it's just the vibe? We need a vibe rule that covers some.


----------



## Cube (20/12/13)

Better get the vibe-o-meter add on for firefox.


----------



## beerkravin (21/12/13)

bradsbrew said:


> It' s a non brewing topic in the pub. It's not in a technical area of the brew shed. Deliberate attempts to cause a bad vibe will be viewed differently.


Moderated on a "vibe"?

No offence bradsbrew, but maybe you should review your position as a moderator. I think sometimes you weild your power a little to recklessly based on personal feeling or opinion.
Not having a go at you or your character, just an observation that sometimes you can be quite inconsistent. Comments like the above, coming from a moderator appears a little standover-ish.
I have been known to be wrong in the past, so happy to go with majority rule, but I think I'll stick to lurking rather than being moderated on a "Vibe"


----------



## bradsbrew (21/12/13)

Yes the term "vibe" was probably the wrong choice. How about "deliberate attempts to cause an argument or belittle members in a non technical thread will be viewed differently"


----------



## beerkravin (21/12/13)

bradsbrew said:


> Yes the term "vibe" was probably the wrong choice. How about "deliberate attempts to cause an argument or belittle members in a non technical thread will be viewed differently"


That seems fair, as long as the view is that of general consensus and not one based on emotion and reaction from an individual and personal level of someone entrusted with power

I suppose that's the point I want to make here.


----------



## Camo6 (21/12/13)

bradsbrew said:


> Yes the term "vibe" was probably the wrong choice. How about "deliberate attempts to cause an argument or belittle members in a non technical thread will be viewed differently"


Out of interest Bradsbrew, was your 'vibe' post aimed at punkin questioning off-topic or me retorting to his quip? If the former, well let's face it, who hasn't had a dig at off-topic sub-branching. If it was aimed at my retort then I would like to point out that I was merely responding in a manner befitting my personality. I incorporated smiley faces to hopefully ensure that it was not taken out of context. I was not trying to incite an argument nor did I think Punkin was. Trust me, self righteous arrogance is something my Dutch/German heritage cannot abide. 
I can understand your desire to curb the disgruntled attitudes on this forum, after all it is a business and its primary focus is financial revenue, and the best defense is often a strong offense. However I get the feeling that this tactic is severely detrimental to the health of this site. I understand why all the recent banned members have rejected this change and have been severely irked by it myself, but isn't it time we all took a step back and took a few deep breaths? I haven't been a member of AHB all that long but in that short time its given me all the answers I've needed and for that reason I'm trying to accept the recent 'restructure' out of gratitude towards what AHB's given me. But when is this inquisition likely to subside?
Once more, I'm not 'detrimentally' trying to question moderation and you can delete this post and respond via PM if you'd prefer, I'd just rather keep this discussion aired to all members. I may not be a 'pro member' but I've certainly spent a fair whack of cash through the sites sponsors, therefore I'd like to consider myself an asset to the site. I'd also like to feel that I can post freely (albeit civilly) on this site without retribution and fear of becoming a Stepford Brewer.
That's my gripe.


----------



## bradsbrew (21/12/13)

Not you Camo6.


----------



## Camo6 (21/12/13)

Touche, Bradsbrew, touche!


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery (21/12/13)

I've just about had enough of the civility. Yes the IPA is flowing now.....

Cocko has been abducted by aliens considering the "mushy shit" he is posting - get me a bucket (could it be manopause???)
JYO is trying to be constructive and give brewing advice - true story.
Cam06 is of dutch/german heritage - and as everybody knows if you find a good one, shoot them before they turn bad.
Moderators are mixing yeast strains - where will it end.
Could be a long night ...
Cheers
BBB


----------



## Camo6 (21/12/13)

I just chortled my IPA back into the glass!
Go easy on Cocko and Jyo, what with all this fuss with the high court trying to overturn new laws its no wonder they're on edge.


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (21/12/13)

Well...at least they were legal for a few days


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery (21/12/13)

Yes it is a long drive back from Canberra for the boys.
Can't wait to see JYO on "I've found the gown".... 
Carry on
BBB


----------



## Cocko (21/12/13)

Bada Bing Brewery said:


> I've just about had enough of the civility. Yes the IPA is flowing now.....
> 
> Cocko has been abducted by aliens considering the "mushy shit" he is posting - get me a bucket (could it be manopause???).
> Cheers
> BBB


Hey mate, hopefully the IPA's are pouring well! I can only wish you and your family a great and safe festive season.

Thanks for your consideration, RE: Aliens, lol... I have not been probed, that I know of.. lol.

Cheers


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery (21/12/13)

Cocko said:


> Hey mate, hopefully the IPA's are pouring well! I can only wish you and your family a great and safe festive season.
> 
> Thanks for your consideration, RE: Aliens, lol... I have not been probed, that I know of.. lol.
> 
> Cheers


You know that's where I was going - you have an obvious probing trauma - my thoughts are with you brother.
Enjoy chrissie and get some help after the silly season.

linky - http://www.alienresistance.org/stop-alien-abduction/
Cheers
BBB


----------



## Glot (21/12/13)

I started this thread and definitely didn't want to create more work for the mods in defending themselves. The trouble with emails / posts etc is there is no body language or voice emotions attached. It is very easy for things to be taken differently to how they were meant.
I have belonged to a lot of unrelated forums. Some are great. Some are pathetic. This one is pretty good.
I have been a moderator on one. It IS a lot of time consuming work and you start to think you must have been crazy to agree. It requires a real passion.
I personally feel the site needs to deal with the cause of the issues and not just patch them up. It is not hit you in the face obvious as to what section the post was actually posted in. For the casual reader they may think it is a stupid post but in actual fact quite okay for where it was posted. It can also be a bit hard to decide the appropriate section to actually post.
This forum has a massive amount of knowledge and experience in it. When you are new, it is a bit over whelming. until you get a feel for the layout, it can be a bit hard to find what you want. Sometimes you don't know what you are looking for until you stumble across it. A search brings up days worth of reading. It is easier to just ask a question. Might be annoying for those that remember discussing it yesterday but please don't get up the questioner. Just point out it has been covered and if you happen to know the section then all the better. They can then head off and do a search. If you have the time, a link to that post would put a smile on their face. As time goes, they will see it is a good site and they will get to know how it works and where to look.
There are many good links and articles in here but they are scattered, hard to find.
Anybody deliberately flaming someone should get a warning. Maybe they do. I have almost left a few times and certainly stuck my fingers up at the screen a few times because of some derogatory comment. I have just learnt that if I don't like it, just don't read it again. It's their problem, not mine.
I also feel that it is very healthy that the mods are even thinking about what issues there are and that members actually care enough to discuss them. No one is perfect ( present company excepted, of course).


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery (21/12/13)

On topic - Mods should be like AFL and cricket umpires - they do a great job when you don't even know they are there ........
It's only when they have a howler they become targets ....
Alfoil hat back on
Cheers
BBB


----------



## Goose (30/12/13)

> I'll say it again - We don't get paid for this.



This is not a shit stir or an attempt at provocation however I am curious. if I look at the mods list, the respective groups are "admin", "moderators" and "member".

Moderators stress they volunteer their services, but can I ask if 'admin' status people have a vested interest here ?

I have absolutely no issue with this by the way, if I were the site owner I'd also consider paying someone or a team to help enforce the rules, subject of course to revenue streams of course. As said I am just curious to know who has a vested interest and who does not.

As a non pro member (as yet), site admin could well tell me to MMYOB but if I were pro I would feel I had the right to know. Trust not too much to ask. :mellow: :blush:


----------



## manticle (30/12/13)

I think the only income received is by site owners through advertising and pro-membership. Obviously they also pay the costs of running the site.


----------



## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (30/12/13)

I honestly think this thread has run its course. Maybe it's time that the moderators close this thread. My opinion.


----------



## QldKev (30/12/13)

Goose said:


> This is not a shit stir or an attempt at provocation however I am curious. if I look at the mods list, the respective groups are "admin", "moderators" and "member".
> 
> Moderators stress they volunteer their services, but can I ask if 'admin' status people have a vested interest here ?
> 
> ...


I cannot speak for Admin, but as a mod I don't receive any benefit, I still pay for my pro member status.


----------



## dicko (30/12/13)

QldKev said:


> I cannot speak for Admin, but as a mod I don't receive any benefit, I still pay for my pro member status.


Same in my case....


----------



## AndrewQLD (30/12/13)

Admin like mods receive nothing for their efforts, we are not paid or given gratuities, we all receive nothing and don't ask for or expect anything.
Questions like that are really pretty insulting, as if we would only do this for personal gain, although I am sure you didn't intend it that way.
However in the interest of transparency I have answered the question.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (30/12/13)

AndrewQLD said:


> Admin like mods receive nothing for their efforts, we are not paid or given gratuities, we all receive nothing and don't ask for or expect anything.
> Questions like that are really pretty insulting, as if we would only do this for personal gain, although I am sure you didn't intend it that way.
> However in the interest of transparency I have answered the question.
> 
> ...


I'm on the mods side with this, they don't get payed for this and they don't need any grief from other members on their actions. I'm sure they are all warranted.


----------



## Goose (30/12/13)

AndrewQLD said:


> Admin like mods receive nothing for their efforts, we are not paid or given gratuities, we all receive nothing and don't ask for or expect anything.
> Questions like that are really pretty insulting, as if we would only do this for personal gain, although I am sure you didn't intend it that way.
> However in the interest of transparency I have answered the question.
> 
> ...


Fella, please don't be insulted I in no way intend to insult people that volunteer their time to maintaining the sanity of a free to opt in forum.

I respect your volunteer works, but one of you who I wont name, is so tenacious that I struggle to understand the extent of the dedication to the cause if there were no vested interest because given the time and effort he puts in I reckon he could make some real coin concentrating on some real business venture to make some GDP for Australia  . But of course money isn't everyone's driver. 

I may not be a pro member yet but I always use the links above from this site to go shopping and I hope it helps. If I showed you how much I've spent in one of these shops over the last years you'd possibly be surprised.

Keep up the good work fellas and thanks for the heads up, I'll go back and MYOB., apologies for the curiousity.


----------



## QldKev (30/12/13)

We do it because we love you :wub:


----------



## Goose (30/12/13)

LOL.

and not for the power and the glory (?).


where the mods job is to:

lead us not into temptation;
but deliver us from evil.

because:

For AHB is the kingdom,
for ever and ever.


----------



## Scooby Tha Newbie (30/12/13)

I love how people poke shit at who gets paid,how this site is run,and who runs it. I personally pay for pro to help those that run the site. It's a matter if give and take. I'm not here to judge. If this site helps you then give a few bucks. It's dead simple. In real life if you want someone to Help you then you pay!! This site is dual purpose,1 a place to talk about and discuss the making of fermented products. 2 the social aspect of talking to people that share the same passion (hobby).I like to give back that's my way.


----------



## Scooby Tha Newbie (30/12/13)

And as to Qld kev,he is a 'fibber he is helping us to make better brews so he can sample ours. it's a Qld thing. 

BORN;12/8/74 Brisbane Woman's hospital. Btw.

;Spelleing edit.


----------



## real_beer (30/12/13)

Glot said:


> The trouble with emails / posts etc is there is no body language or voice emotions attached. It is very easy for things to be taken differently to how they were meant.


You've hit the nail on the head here........... mix it with a belly full of grog & the hammer used to hit it turns into a Sledge Hammer or sadly in some posts a giant Wrecking Ball


----------



## StalkingWilbur (30/12/13)

From what I can see a lot of the problems could be fixed by a better search engine? I've tried using it several times on the app and it's horrible. 

It's a shame. There are so many genuinely awesome people on here and even more knowledge, yet it's being tarnished by bullshit like this thread.


----------



## Scooby Tha Newbie (30/12/13)

It's negative posts like that! It's a forum say what you will no problem. I was with you till the last sentence. The search engine could be better for shor. As well as threads that are 5 yrs old. The app on my droid ruined this site for me. I use chrome now.And I agree that 99.999879% of plp are great and helpfull.It's a matter of perspective,to say any thread is B.S. Isn't helpfull. I want to make a better site for all to enjoy. Maybe you should try that.


----------



## Scooby Tha Newbie (30/12/13)

Just sayin.


----------



## warra48 (30/12/13)

The site remains a work in progress. The next cab off the rank, as far as I can determine as merely a Moderator, is possibly a better and new Recipe DB. I can't give a timeframe, as that is entirely in Austin's hands, as are any other planned improvements.

I also paid for my Pro Membership. I have gained a lot of knowledge from this forum over the last almost 7 years, and it was a small token of appreciation to give a little back. For the same reason I agreed to accept appointment as a Moderator. None of the Moderators are paid, it is a labour of love.

There has been some friction in recent times, which has resulted in some warranted and obvious Admin/Mod reactions. Since then the forum seems to settled down again to be a much friendlier place. Moderating in those circumstances becomes almost invisible to the membership, which is as it should be if everyone has some basic respect for other members.

Keep on brewing chaps and chappettes, and making great beers. And tell us about them on this forum.


----------



## TidalPete (30/12/13)

> The trouble with emails / posts etc is there is no body language or voice emotions attached. It is very easy for things to be taken differently to how they were meant.


And THERE you have it!

Being very deaf I had lots multiple lots of trouble in the past with my emails & PM's being taken out of context by mods on both a forum & a personal level.

Andrew --- Dane gave all mods free Pro membership as a matter of course when Pro first appeared so you're now telling us that this has been discontinued by the new owners? 
BTW, I have discontinued my Pro membership but that may change in the future?

Whilst on this subject, I'm wondering what happens (theoretically of course ) if a mod retires from the moderation team but is "given" honorary moderator status by an admin, does he/she still have unrestricted use of his/hers moderation software or is the ability to use that software denied by admin on retirement in the same manner as with all other past mods but still leaving them with the honorary status of having their name highlighted in green?
This is a genuine question admin & I would really appreciate a reply. 

I think that this thread needs to be pinned as all members here need a thread such as this to air any grievances or problems they may have at the time.


----------



## Scooby Tha Newbie (30/12/13)

The two posts after my last are good examples of a healthy site. I agree that the site has improved in the last month it two. It's much more open and friendly a place to "hang". Tidal Pete has asked a question. I'm not really interested in the answer but the fact that mods & or admin are willing to listen says volumes.


----------



## dent (30/12/13)

> Dane gave all mods free Pro membership as a matter of course when Pro first appeared so you're now telling us that this has been discontinued by the new owners?


Better not be! :lol:


To be honest, for a _brewing _forum I've always been surprised by how little mess seems to be made on here with drunken blather and noise. Not that it isn't entertaining.


----------



## StalkingWilbur (30/12/13)

I think my comment is valid and your statements thereafter confirm so. If your objective is to improve this site, why have a thread titled "gripes about AHB" and give people carte blanche to whinge when a thread could have been started along the lines of "ways we can improve AHB" and require that people put forward possible positive solutions to any problems they perceive.


----------



## Scooby Tha Newbie (30/12/13)

Um well look I'm trying ok. Maybe I've not drunk enough today. 3 borbons 3 750mil Carlton draft and a Seraira Nevada. Dam I can't even spell.


----------



## QldKev (30/12/13)

StalkingWilbur said:


> I think my comment is valid and your statements thereafter confirm so. If your objective is to improve this site, why have a thread titled "gripes about AHB" and give people carte blanche to whinge when a thread could have been started along the lines of "ways we can improve AHB" and require that people put forward possible positive solutions to any problems they perceive.


This "Gripes about AHB" thread was not started by Admins/Mods, it was started by a member.

The "Moderation Guidelines - Announcement" thread requesting constructive feedback was started by Admin.

Lets try and stay on a positive note. :beerbang:


----------



## Scooby Tha Newbie (30/12/13)

I Realy miss my home brew. Soz off topic.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I (30/12/13)

Sozzled.

Guys, I know that some of the moderation has been heavy handed (*puts hand up*) but it's to make this a friendly forum with relevant information in the right place and a place to be social but respectful manner.

Your positive comments mean we're on our way.

We're working hard to get the other issues (recipedb, articles) up to site owners and they're trying to get them right.

As for modding, we will be less conspicuous as this place has settled down and the guidelines are clear for all to see.


----------



## AndrewQLD (30/12/13)

TidalPete said:


> And THERE you have it!
> 
> Being very deaf I had lots multiple lots of trouble in the past with my emails & PM's being taken out of context by mods on both a forum & a personal level.
> 
> ...


You need to get off the band wagon pete, mods at the time pro memberships were given to mods for one year in order to test it, and judging from your comments regarding Pro membership it's not much of a perk? And to be honest pro membership doesn't give us any more because as mods we needed the extras to begin with and had them.
Honourary moderators? if one wants to resign and is unswayed by staff not to then yes, they no longer have access to the mod areas.

Hope that answered your question.


----------



## warra48 (30/12/13)

I agree with AndrewQLD.

A number of new mods were appointed after the Pro Membership was introduced. We paid for it before we were appointed as Mods. I don't care if I need to pay to renew it or not. It's not a big impost on my total budget.

And yes, mods who have resigned lose their access to mods only access and any other facilities which go along with being a mod. There is no such thing as an honorary mod, you either are a mod or you are not.

Hope you have a great new year Pete.


----------



## TidalPete (30/12/13)

No it does not Andrew. <_<
Some things are better left unsaid publically & so it will be.
End of the matter.

Waiting for my suspension &/or ban from AHB.


----------



## Camo6 (30/12/13)

StalkingWilbur said:


> I think my comment is valid and your statements thereafter confirm so. If your objective is to improve this site, why have a thread titled "gripes about AHB" and give people carte blanche to whinge when a thread could have been started along the lines of "ways we can improve AHB" and require that people put forward possible positive solutions to any problems they perceive.


Upon rereading Glot's original post I'm not really sure he was inviting criticism towards AHB but rather revoking it. But build it and they will come. And how can you fix something if you don't know it's broken. There are more constructive "improving AHB" threads but it's a forum and current threads will always dominate.

Not having a go at your post SW, just using it for context.

I don't see a problem asking whether admin receive financial gain from their positions and frankly I'm surprised they're not. I spend a fair bit of time scanning this site and have noted that the mod presence here is almost omnipresent. To spend that amount of time governing this site I feel a little guilty that you're not reimbursed financially, but it shows your dedication to this site and kudos to you. Actually, it makes me less inclined towards paying for pro-membership knowing you are *not *receiving financial gain. I'm not being ignorant of your commitment, but I've a mortgage, a young family and **** all hours in the day, I can appreciate the value of one's time.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I (30/12/13)

No this thread does not need pinning. 

It's the same cycle of stupidity.

A small minority whinge, we attempt to be more consultative and fix the issues that are valid.

They keep whinging. Thread gets nasty. Mods take action. 

A small minority have a whinge.

This is a beer forum, not a whine forum.


----------



## AndrewQLD (30/12/13)

TidalPete said:


> No it does not Andrew. <_<
> Some things are better left unsaid publically & so it will be.
> End of the matter.
> 
> Waiting for my suspension &/or ban from AHB.



Feel free to pm me Pete with any questions you, which is what you should have done initially


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Scooby Tha Newbie (30/12/13)

Not trying to flog a dead horse. But I feel it's a matter perspective;pay if you wish or not. If you want to say whatever,then maybe Twitter is a better forum. This site is controlled (moderated) you may not say what you want to a point if it's insulting/offending that I think is fair. Many places on the net aren't it makes it a better place here. Fairly simple I think.


----------



## Goose (30/12/13)

> but I've a mortgage, a young family and **** all hours in the day



half your luck mate , I'd be lucky to get to do that one hour a week


----------



## bradsbrew (30/12/13)

TidalPete said:


> No it does not Andrew.
> Some things are better left unsaid publically & so it will be.
> End of the matter.
> 
> Waiting for my suspension &/or ban from AHB.


C'mon Pete, why would you get a susp/ban for that post. You are obviously referring to a particular mod that has recently stated he is having a break, yeah? If we were having a beer together I would probably rip your hearing aid out stick my tongue in your ear and whisper shout sweet nothings in your ear, which would probably be mumbled considering my tongue is in your ear.  

Basically if a mod resigns and/or is inactive for a period of time, they will lose access to mods areas and be reset to member. Simple as that.

As far as payment goes, my time spent here is a donation to the brewing community of AHB. I have gained a lot from this place and see it as giving something back to the community. People give back in many ways such as detailed technical info, organising brew comps/clubs etc, stewarding etc the list could go on. However if Austin wants to blow the moths off the cheque book :lol: :lol: :lol:.

As far as the Pro membership goes, well the mods do need to have access to the Pro section so why not let them have it. Pretty sure that will be covered by Austin.

Hope this covers the questions. Did somebody say beer.

Cheers


----------



## Scooby Tha Newbie (30/12/13)

Amen.I for one want to pump tidal Pete for his knowage. Plus I may watch you and your tongue. I DO LIKE TO WATCH.


----------



## Camo6 (30/12/13)

Goose said:


> half your luck mate , I'd be lucky to get to do that one hour a week


Haha! I see what you did there Goose!

PS. I'll have to bill you for this banter. Time is money.


----------



## StalkingWilbur (31/12/13)

Looking at the search function on the iPhone app and am thinking that if there were options like "match exact string", "search subject only" and "search last month, 3 months, year etc" that it would go a long way to helping noobs find more of what they need without asking basic questions over and over again.


----------



## manticle (31/12/13)

Select google from the drop down menu and you'll notice it improve. Uses google engine to search within the site for your keyword/s.


----------



## jyo (31/12/13)

Camo6 said:


> Haha! I see what you did there Goose!
> 
> PS. I'll have to bill you for this banter. Time is money.


Yes, it certainly was better than some of the crap you've been recently spruiking as comic relief


----------



## StalkingWilbur (31/12/13)

manticle said:


> Select google from the drop down menu and you'll notice it improve. Uses google engine to search within the site for your keyword/s.



Is this in the app or on the website? I'm primarily using the app because I spend far more time on my phone. I don't see any drop down menu on the app, but I could just be a 'tard and missing it.


----------



## yum beer (31/12/13)

StalkingWilbur said:


> Is this in the app or on the website? I'm primarily using the app because I spend far more time on my phone. I don't see any drop down menu on the app, but I could just be a 'tard and missing it.


And this is where shit starts, you fire up a debate about a search engine not working well before you inform anyone your trying to play computers on a toy.

Id say 'get real FFS' but they may get me modded.


----------



## Cube (31/12/13)

Yum Beer, does your 'not a toy' computer have spell and grammer checker on it? You should use this feature.

Phones do.


----------



## nu_brew (31/12/13)

StalkingWilbur said:


> Looking at the search function on the iPhone app and am thinking that if there were options like "match exact string", "search subject only" and "search last month, 3 months, year etc" that it would go a long way to helping noobs find more of what they need without asking basic questions over and over again.






yum beer said:


> And this is where shit starts, you fire up a debate about a search engine not working well before you inform anyone your trying to play computers on a toy.
> 
> Id say 'get real FFS' but they may get me modded.


Maybe read the post again, pretty clear to me they're on an iPhone. Of course you could just jump down his throat instead!


----------



## manticle (31/12/13)

Let's nip the animosity in the bud by taking a couple of breaths, finishing our coffee and taking a walk near the local river, pond, beach, pool or puddle.
Happy new year.


----------



## yum beer (31/12/13)

Cube said:


> Yum Beer, does your 'not a toy' computer have spell and grammer checker on it? You should use this feature.
> 
> Phones do.


Yes it does but I can't seem to get it to work. Its ok though because I'm not going to gripe about that.


----------



## yum beer (31/12/13)

nu_brew said:


> Maybe read the post again, pretty clear to me they're on an iPhone. Of course you could just jump down his throat instead!


Reading back to the original post, yes he did say he was using an app. sorry about that...really just wanted to jump down someone's throat.

Going now for a walk by the river.


----------



## goomboogo (31/12/13)

Cube said:


> Yum Beer, does your 'not a toy' computer have spell and grammer checker on it? You should use this feature.
> 
> Phones do.


Glass houses? In this spot goes an emoticon to indicate a comment of a jocular nature.

The last 9 pages have probably proven Glot's original point. Although, that is the nature of conversation.


----------



## Goose (31/12/13)

> Although, that is the nature of conversation.


And this is the Pub innit


----------



## goomboogo (31/12/13)

Goose said:


> And this is the Pub innit


Absolutely.


----------



## real_beer (31/12/13)

I must say a lot of the GRIPES I regularly have with pages not loading or even being able to access the site haven't happened since I installed the Opera Browser a few days ago. Firefox & Google have become a real PITA lately with all the bloat they seem to have built up. I'm just hoping the problems don't return after the holidays end & the forum traffic fires up again. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Goose (31/12/13)

> As Australian drinking culture in the pubs has changed so drastically (in the major cities at least) over the last decade



In what way ? Heading English pub style where its a piss taking competition ?


----------



## Yob (31/12/13)

There have been a number of comments about the search function, which if used correctly isnt at all bad..





it would be good if the *Google option* was *default*, I remember a bunch of us asking for it(repeatedly) on the old site and it was implemented, not sure why it hasnt been yet on this one, there certainly has been enough noise about it and would go a long way towards helping Noobs searching stuff out.

There is also the little *gear wheel* beside the search line which brings up the *advanced search*, which to be honest, Ive never needed to use, the Google search pretty much gets it for me.


----------



## Scooby Tha Newbie (31/12/13)

See that's gold. I didn't realise that was there. "Teach them to teach them selves,and they shall learn"


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (31/12/13)

Guys...

Give it a break. 

We should not be gripping about AHB

When the site first kicked off, it was from a forum that was killed from dickheads that killed a great forum.

I have seen the results from both forums.

You want to gripe...

Sorry...but I suggest you find somewhere else to gripe


----------



## Linford (31/12/13)

I got no gripes. You punters got me going on the AG carpet ride. Lotta bull shit amongst some sound advice!

Thanks, cheers and Happy New Year.

Rgds

Linford


----------



## Gelding (31/12/13)

Stu never gripes. In fact he doesn't even re-hydrate his yeast


----------



## Ducatiboy stu (31/12/13)

Touche


----------



## Mike L'Itorus (2/1/14)

so why are my PM privileges and my status update ability an on again, off again thing? i'd PM a mod, but don't have access to PM's....how am I meant to obey the rules if the tool required for obeying the rules is removed from me? **********************************************?

edit: as it appears to have been fixed, I've voluntarily???volontarily???? bugger, can't spell.....taken it upon myself to self-edit and tone down slightly my gripe. Fair is fair, after all. Yes?


----------



## bradsbrew (2/1/14)

Will have a look for you.


Edit -Fixed.


----------



## Camo6 (2/1/14)

I've had a look for Mike L'Itorus several times and there's something about him I can't quite put my finger on.


----------



## zappa (3/1/14)

Camo6 said:


> I've had a look for Mike L'Itorus several times and there's something about him I can't quite put my finger on.


Apparently doesn't mind a bit of lip though.


----------



## Rod (3/1/14)

many moons ago we were asked if there was anything that could be done about the forum

I asked could the hover function that is available on many forums be done here , 

when you put the cursor above the title of a post is says

view results

other forums give the first few lines of a post and indicates to me if it is of interest, some posters do give one word posts

now I understand that it may not be available , OK

but why ask the question , knowing you could get a load of requests , if you were not going to respond 

i can live with the current situation and will still look at the forum at least once a day


----------



## warra48 (3/1/14)

Actually, from memory, the hover function worked on this forum when I first joined, but it's not worked for me for some years now.

I don't profess any programming capabilities or understanding, so I can't comment on the whys and wherefores.


----------

