# Thomas Fawcetts Vs Bairds Mo



## Barry (24/1/09)

I am just about to weigh out the grain for a comparison of these two malts, will brew tomorrow. A special bitter recipe with the base malt and 300 gms of Bairds 90 EBC crystal, WLP013 London yeast. Plan to have a blind tasting of the two beers at a monthly ESB meeting in a couple of months time.
Has anyone done a similar comparison with these two malts or have any opinions re these two malts?
PS. I do not know why I put this under the bulk buys.


----------



## Korev (24/1/09)

no - but am looking forward to the "blind " tasting. 

Peter


----------



## goatherder (24/1/09)

Good one Barry, please post the results. I've been a long time user of the Baird's product and I've just bought a bag of the Fawcett's. I didn't even think to keep enough Baird's to do what you propose. I was planning on doing a 100% MO + EKG bitter as a trial to see how it tastes.

What's the % crystal in that recipe going to be? I suspect there would be a point in a bitter recipe where the crystal flavour overwhelms the base malt. I'm not sure what that point is, somewhere over 10% would be my guess.


----------



## Barry (24/1/09)

The crystal will be 7% but it is 90 EBC, so not too dark. Also I seem to have a lot blondish ales at present so I would like a couple of slightly darker ones. As well many English bitters are affected by some significant degree of specialty malts. So a bit of pragmatic realism and self interest involved.


----------



## Bribie G (24/1/09)

Recently bottled a 100% Fawcetts Floor Malted MO - a Burton Ale, and it turned out lager-coloured like Boddingtons used to be in the old days, Theakston Bitter, Stones Bitter etc. Will use some crystal next time as I was really looking for more of a Marstons Pedigree.


----------



## dr K (24/1/09)

Old codgers (sorry Barry) will remember that Thomas Fawcett malts were available here only a few yeras ago (well 6 years ago). The Fawcetts Xtal gained legendary status , I still dream about it.
Fawcett's is a family run but rather large maltings, those of the Burberry class may have a better understanding than a riparian such as I, but none the less they are one of of a rather small handfull of british maltings that still have floor maltings (they also have saladin boxes and other trappings of the post Napoleonic era).
The Fawcett Malts back then were highly regarded in my local area but then again they were the only fresh British Malts available to us locally.
Maris Otter is a pretty bullet proof variety and both Bairds and TF are well regarded malsters so I would think that any variation between the two would be more the work of the brewer than the malster, but then again Barry (despite his Mambo Shirts) is a very elegant brewer and an excellent judge.....
The TF Pale Ale (Halcyon ATM) though is remarkable.

K


----------



## goatherder (13/4/09)

I know it's been a while now, but did you have a verdict on the side by side tasting Barry?


----------



## Barry (14/4/09)

I tipped one of the batches, just not right, used the other for real ale day. Bottled two other batches yesterday so I hope they are OK. The funny thing is I just bought more MO last week and it is now Simpsons. The comparison might be academic?


----------



## dr K (14/4/09)

Maris Otter is a pretty bullet proof variety and Bairds, Simpsons and TF are well regarded malsters so I would think that any variation between the three would be more the work of the brewer than the malster.

K


----------



## haysie (14/4/09)

dr K said:


> Maris Otter is a pretty bullet proof variety and Bairds, Simpsons and TF are well regarded malsters so I would think that any variation between the three would be more the work of the brewer than the malster.
> 
> K



BIG +1


----------



## drsmurto (14/4/09)

dr K said:


> Maris Otter is a pretty bullet proof variety and Bairds, Simpsons and TF are well regarded malsters so I would think that any variation between the three would be more the work of the brewer than the malster.
> 
> K



TF MO is floor malted, Bairds is not.

Surely there must be a difference. :huh:


----------



## Sammus (14/4/09)

I was looking at a list of malts and it says bairds maris otter (thomas fawcett). So what is it? Bairds or TF? It says this for several types of malt. From this I inferred that TF was a kind of MO or something, not a different brand.


----------



## gap (14/4/09)

Sammus said:


> I was looking at a list of malts and it says bairds maris otter (thomas fawcett). So what is it? Bairds or TF? It says this for several types of malt. From this I inferred that TF was a kind of MO or something, not a different brand.




Bairds, Simpsons and Thomas Fawcett are Maltsters. Maris Otter is a type of Barley .

Regards

Graeme


----------



## dr K (14/4/09)

> QUOTE (dr K @ Apr 14 2009, 08:13 PM) *
> Maris Otter is a pretty bullet proof variety and Bairds, Simpsons and TF are well regarded malsters so I would think that any variation between the three would be more the work of the brewer than the malster.
> 
> K
> ...



Of course, in very subtle ways, a floor malted malt is less likely to be consistent batch to batch (blending is a wonderfull thing though) on the other hand the shallower malting bed seems to produce (anecdotally) a diiferent feel or flavor, which some may prefer (often largely based on a knowledge of the origin).
I stand firmly by my comment that in the case of a very specific variety there will be a far wider variation brewer to brewer, even commercially without entering into the HB minefield than malster to malster of the same grain (as opposed to just Pale Malt or Pilsener Malt of unknown or at best varying origin).
I also stand firmly by my comment that from my personal preference the Fawcetts Halcyon is just remarkable.

K


----------



## Sammus (14/4/09)

gap said:


> Bairds, Simpsons and Thomas Fawcett are Maltsters. Maris Otter is a type of Barley .
> 
> Regards
> 
> Graeme



Yeah, that's what I originally thought until the pricelist said "Bairds Maris Otter (Thomas Fawcett)"... I guess Bairds get it from TF or something?


----------



## Fourstar (14/4/09)

Sammus said:


> Yeah, that's what I originally thought until the pricelist said "Bairds Maris Otter (Thomas Fawcett)"... I guess Bairds get it from TF or something?



I'd say they put (TF) in brackets because Maris Otter is widely associated with TF as their flagship malt. Either way its like saing Holden Commodore (Mercedes) basically it dont mean shit, but for someone who has NFI may think they are buying a mercedes. :lol: 

Bairds wouldnt get anything from TF as they are direct competition. It would be like coles buying woolies homebrand products and selling it on their shelves.


----------



## Sammus (14/4/09)

that's strange. ease up buddy, was just asking a question.


----------



## Ross (14/4/09)

Fourstar said:


> Bairds wouldnt get anything from TF as they are direct competition. It would be like coles buying woolies homebrand products and selling it on their shelves.



Not totally correct.... certainly Fawcetts do not supply Bairds with floor malted Maris Otter, but they do however supply them with several of their specialty malts, which are rebadged under the Bairds name.

cheers Ross


----------



## dr K (14/4/09)

Sammus
I guess 4star can back his assertions, otherwise I guess (in his words) they don't mean shit (which begs a question I once again guess). I rather like the acronym NFI though.

K


----------



## Sammus (15/4/09)

I'm not sure it is an acronym. I think an acronym is when the initials spell another word, otherwise it's just an initialisation. Notice I don't actually claim any of what I said is fact (except the fact that I'm not sure), it's just what I think, so I don't have to back any of it up  I guess I still may have NFI about it and what I'm saying might not mean shit.

A little off topic, sorry. Cheers for clearing up my confusion on TF, and giving me some FI.


----------



## Peter Wadey (15/4/09)

Barry,
Spoke to Peter Meddings yesterday. Fawcett's is no longer available through Bintani.
That's why it's not available in the shop.
He is keeping some of the Simpson's range instead.
Range = MO, GP, Imperial, Aromatic, XTALS (Pale, Med & Dark) & the Golden Nut Oats.
Simpsons MO is NOT floor malted. (Trawled their site & confirmed with Peter)

Rgds,
P3


----------



## Barry (15/4/09)

Thanks Pete. As long as it is MO I am happy. Chewed some Simpson's yesterday and it was very friable with a deep malt flavour.


----------



## warrenlw63 (15/4/09)

I grabbed some Simpsons Crystal from G&G on the weekend. Chewed a few kernels there's some incredible flavours. :icon_drool2: 

Warren -


----------



## Fourstar (15/4/09)

dr K said:


> I guess 4star can back his assertions, otherwise I guess (in his words) they don't mean shit (which begs a question I once again guess).


Nope i cant back them up, i was making a fairly educated assumption (unsure if thats still educated)  that direct competition dont buy eachothers products and sell them in an attempt to make a profit. Obviously because there is no margin. As ross pointed out, i may be right on the MO point but its not the case for their specialties! Basically i have NFI! :lol: 




Sammus said:


> that's strange. ease up buddy, was just asking a question.


Sorry Sammus, i didnt mean for it to seem like an attack on you at all. I was merely pointing out the price list you have was rather misleading to the unknowing customer (possibly yourself). Thinking you are getting TF when infact its bairds. The whole Holden/Merc thing. It may be correct, but i would be checking with the source if you doubt its reputable.




Ross said:


> Not totally correct.... certainly Fawcetts do not supply Bairds with floor malted Maris Otter, but they do however supply them with several of their specialty malts, which are rebadged under the Bairds name.
> cheers Ross



Interesting to know Ross.. Seems like a good way to make little or no profit on Bairds part unless TF is selling it for basement price to their local competition.


----------

