# Chinese Hops Bonanza.



## yardy (9/10/11)

Hop Bonanza


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## MitchDudarko (9/10/11)

Here we go again... <_<


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## barls (9/10/11)

pass


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## MHB (9/10/11)

Was it Einstein who said Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Makes you wonder.
M


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## Silo Ted (9/10/11)

I was going to have a go last year, but it pissed me off that the prices kept getting jacked up. The landed $$ was a whole lot more than he suggested. 

Anyway why bother when you can get three pounds delivered from the US for $16 shipping, and under $20 a pound for most varieties. 

I'll stick with a sure thing. but its so great what he gives back to the brewing community


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## Bribie G (9/10/11)

I bought a kilo of Chinese Saaz on that forum last time and they are head and shoulders above the original buy through AHB - as it happens I have a Chinese lager about 4 days into ferment with Danish yeast at 16 degrees, I'll be bringing samples to BABBs November meeting but should be ready before then for general tasting.


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## yardy (9/10/11)

Bribie G said:


> I bought a kilo of Chinese Saaz on that forum last time and they are head and shoulders above the original buy through AHB - as it happens I have a Chinese lager about 4 days into ferment with Danish yeast at 16 degrees, I'll be bringing samples to BABBs November meeting but should be ready before then for general tasting.



Is it the same recipe as this one Bribie ?



> OK I've finally bloody finally got a brew through with the Chinese Saaz and can report:
> 
> Chinese Rice lager
> 
> ...


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## stillscottish (9/10/11)

I want Harratau !! B)


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## Cocko (9/10/11)

stillscottish said:


> I want Harratau !! B)




:lol:

WOFL!


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## Bribie G (9/10/11)

Harratau ragger, If you weren't Scottish I'd accuse you of being lacist :angry: 


New lecipee is 

*Chinese Lager*
International Strong Lager

*Recipe Specs*
----------------
Batch Size (L): 25.0
Total Grain (kg): 5.500
Total Hops (g): 92.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.050 (P): 12.4
Final Gravity (FG): 1.011 (P): 2.8
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 5.12 %
Colour (SRM): 3.1 (EBC): 6.1
Bitterness (IBU): 27.2 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

*Grain Bill*
----------------
5.000 kg Pilsner Barrett Burston (90.91%)
0.500 kg Maltose Syrup Chinese (9.09%)

*Hop Bill*
----------------
12.0 g Magnum Pellet (12.5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.5 g/L)
80.0 g Saaz Chinese Pellet (3% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil) (3.2 g/L)

*Misc Bill*
----------------

Single step Infusion at 66C for 60 Minutes.
Fermented at 17C with Wyeast 2042 - Danish Lager


Lecipee Generated with *Honourable BlewMate*

_Disclaimer SWMBO is half Chinese and assures me that the L and R thing are regarded as not offensive, just a bit like Irish Jokes and a bit of fun, like they call us round eyes. _


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## yardy (9/10/11)

that looks rubbery


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## QldKev (9/10/11)

no thanks, I can scrape enough shit off my toilet bowl without having to go to one of these bulk buys...


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## pk.sax (9/10/11)

I'd like free bags of free kilos each with free dollar postage. Ty.

Ps: heard positive comments from brewers in fnq about the second year's Chinese hop buy. Apparently they have been working well for them. Alas, none had been part of the infamous first year's BB.

Again, when can I have my free bags please?


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## jyo (9/10/11)

stillscottish said:


> I want Harratau !! B)






Cocko said:


> :lol:
> 
> WOFL!



I nearly pissed myself!!


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## Bribie G (9/10/11)

Why did this post appear twice and why am I not able to delete it without AHB hanging for an indefinite amount of time?


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## MarkBastard (9/10/11)

It would be fair to say that Graham got screwed over in the first one, like the rest of us, but his reaction precludes him from that excuse.

Anyway, I still have almost 1KG of Chinese Cascade and Chinese Saaz vac sealed in my freezer and I will give these to anyone that wants them (for free).


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## Batz (9/10/11)

Bribie G said:


> Why did this post appear twice and why am I not able to delete it without AHB hanging for an indefinite amount of time?




Fixed Mike.
Chinese hops? I still can't get the Yellow Peril taste out my mouth. :lol: :lol:


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## Bribie G (9/10/11)

Bribie G said:


> Why did this post appear twice and why am I not able to delete it without AHB hanging for an indefinite amount of time?


Now my original post is gone but this one still remains.

Forum spaz attack?


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## BjornJ (9/10/11)

I've seen the Chinese hop buy referenced several times and not in a good way.
What was the issue, were the hops old or were they not the promised types or anything?
(just curious )

thanks
Bjorn


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## Siborg (10/10/11)

BjornJ said:


> I've seen the Chinese hop buy referenced several times and not in a good way.
> What was the issue, were the hops old or were they not the promised types or anything?
> (just curious )
> 
> ...


from what I have read:
1. OP talked them up heaps
2. orders flocked in due to cheap price
3. people started using them and found they were of terrible quality
4. OP defended them, and accusing the people using them of being bad brewers
5. shit storm


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## manticle (10/10/11)

Bribie G said:


> Harratau ragger, If you weren't Scottish I'd accuse you of being lacist :angry:
> 
> 
> New lecipee is
> ...



Bitterness calculated using Rager?


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## bradsbrew (10/10/11)

BjornJ said:


> I've seen the Chinese hop buy referenced several times and not in a good way.
> What was the issue, were the hops old or were they not the promised types or anything?
> (just curious )
> 
> ...



Pretty well sumed up by adamT in this thread The tale of Townsville

Cheers


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## BjornJ (10/10/11)

Haha, that was funny!

Ok, so I'll stick to local hops for local people then.

(that are probably mostly grown overseas anyway)

Bjorn


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## Rowy (10/10/11)

yardy said:


> Hop Bonanza




Tell you what happenned to that Australia.............we sold out to the chinese.


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## yardy (10/10/11)

Rowy said:


> Tell you what happenned to that Australia.............we sold out to the chinese.



love their take-away food, hope we sell out to the Indians in the near future, I do love a curry :icon_cheers:


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## bigfridge (10/10/11)

bradsbrew said:


> Pretty well sumed up by adamT in this thread The tale of Townsville
> 
> Cheers



Yes, this is a cracker summary of one-side of the story. There were plenty that cautioned about the low quality that could be expected given the lack of specifications or actual analysis available and the absence of a track record as a hop producing area.

These soothsayers were met with:





It would appear that the hops offered were more suitable for bittering (where alpha content is the prime consideration) rather than the aroma hops that a lot of (vocal) buyers were expecting.


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## komodo (10/10/11)

Seriously I've never understood the attraction to the cheap chinese hops when the likes of ellerslie hops selling 500g and 1kg lots of hops at fairly attractive prices. 
When you break it down to cost per brew hops sourced locally arent that expencive.


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## punkin (10/10/11)

I don't get why hops are popular from the states either. I'm new at the game, but the hops from Ellerslie are mostly cheaper than the ones from the states if you buy by the kilo according to the price list i'm using anyway.

There's bound to be something i haven't seen or don't know, but i got my third order of three kilos of hops in from ellerslie last week and i'm very happy. :icon_cheers:


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (10/10/11)

punkin said:


> I don't get why hops are popular from the states either. I'm new at the game, but the hops from Ellerslie are mostly cheaper than the ones from the states if you buy by the kilo according to the price list i'm using anyway.
> 
> There's bound to be something i haven't seen or don't know, but i got my third order of three kilos of hops in from ellerslie last week and i'm very happy. :icon_cheers:



How much?


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## Bribie G (10/10/11)

At that stage the AUD$ was still at around 65 cents and Ellerslie weren't supplying to hobbyists unless you had some sort of an "in" with the company, and American hops were heading North with Cascade 90g foils over AUD$12, which was punishing.

Now we're a bit better organised and Hops Direct are well used to dealing with these strange bag waving barbarians from over the Ocean. 

China grows some nice hops, the industry was set up with the help of Czech advisors - say no more. 
I think the problem was:

First Buy: Graham got dudded with left-over "dross". I mean it was a stupid time of year to do the buy, we would have been sitting ducks to offload the old stuff onto. 
Second buy: Not too bad, really - I'd put the Chinese Saaz on an equal footing with Saphir for example although not as aromatic as the Czech / GER
Third buy: who knows, I might try a kilo depending on the price. 

Around Xmas I got a pound of GER Hallertau from HD and I had to bin it. It was stale, dusty and cardboardy. So HD / Ellerslie aren't bulletproof, I know last years' Ellerslie EKG re-imports were a bit dodgy according to many.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (10/10/11)

My Citra from Niko has been somewhat dusty (or it got hammered over the pacific) - smaller pellets and higher amounts of dust in the sealer packets.

Having said that, it doesn't seem to have any effect on flavour - in fact, I'd rate their flavour really well, especially when 20g of Citra and 30g of Cascade are put into a large teabag and deposited at the draw tube in my keg of APA.

Without taking this :icon_offtopic: too much, I have to say that the Smaragd hops from CB are good. $6 a 90g bag, which is cheap for a keg filler if you 1. haven't got enough bulk hops or 2. Live close by and can go and get them yourself.

I've used them in a lager in a 60/20 split to about 25 IBU. Very smooth bitterness, flowery, slightly fruity (though not like an American hop) - similar to lublin - not spicy at all.

So for all the Brissy brau bretheren, requiring a quick fill in hop, it'll do the trick.

Goomba


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## yardy (10/10/11)

ekul organised a hop buy from HD for us, mine were 500gm EKG, Fuggles, Strisselspalt among others, can't complain about the quality at all, as Bribie said, the 2010 buy here 2010 Chinese Hop Buy had some good reviews, maybe this year i might have a crack..


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## punkin (10/10/11)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> How much?



Tween $22 and $67 a kilo for single kilos. most seem to be tween $30-45. Delivery is cheap enough too and you're only waiting a few days instead of weeks..

Just seems when people are saying they're getting it from HD for $20 a pound (2.2lb/kg?) it's not really a cost saving. I was thinking it must be a quality thing, but every one i've got from Ellerlslie has been fresh looking and had a wonderful scent.

Not that i'd know a bad lot i spose.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (10/10/11)

My hop buys have been around the $10/pound plus postage mark from the US.

Last time I got 2 1/2 pounds for about $48 and it would have been 3 pounds at the same, if I'd ordered a different variety and not a hard to find one.

Goomba


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## /// (10/10/11)

I'm never sure why folks buy and sit on large amounts of hops anyway. Unless broken down and cryo-vaced in oxygen barrier bags, all I see is plenty of folks with freezers full of hops all affected by Butyric Acid ... buy well handled fresh lots regularly i say ...


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## Cortez The Killer (10/10/11)

I got a few of the chinese hops from last year and found the Cascade and Columbus to be acceptable 

My NSW special case swap entry used them throughout and met with solid reviews 

Cheers


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## MarkBastard (10/10/11)

/// said:


> I'm never sure why folks buy and sit on large amounts of hops anyway. Unless broken down and cryo-vaced in oxygen barrier bags, all I see is plenty of folks with freezers full of hops all affected by Butyric Acid ... buy well handled fresh lots regularly i say ...



Have you tried storing hops in your freezer, made a beer, tasted it and gone "YEGADZ, TOO MUCH BUTYRIC ACID"! Or are you just trying to impress us with your knowledge of theory?


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## Bribie G (10/10/11)

/// said:


> I'm never sure why folks buy and sit on large amounts of hops anyway. Unless broken down and cryo-vaced in oxygen barrier bags, all I see is plenty of folks with freezers full of hops all affected by Butyric Acid ... buy well handled fresh lots regularly i say ...



With 90g sleeves of USA hops reaching stupid levels last year - up to $14 IIRC, many people twigged that you could get a whole fricking pound of them for the same price. With hops at around $7 a sleeve I was more than happy just to pay as I went - now I note that they are once again dropping to 7-9 a sleeve so I expect I'll be back to ordering as much as possible from my usual supplier. 
I fully realise that it wasn't the retailer who was gouging, they buy from hop dealers and they had to work through the "price hump" before the cheaper hops started flowing again.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (10/10/11)

Yup, my Cascade came in about $11 a pound plus amortised postage of around $4.

If I'd had the guts to try some relatively under-documented US varieties - it would have been less again.

Willamette was about $14 delivered.

The Citra killed me, but was still around 2/3rd price landed.

Most of the time, I'll pick up my hops on a PAYB (Purchase as you brew) system from my usual local supplier at Capalaba - I've got half sleeves of 5 or 6 varieties in the freezer and the prices seem to be coming down again for most of my favourite varieties.


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## /// (10/10/11)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Have you tried storing hops in your freezer, made a beer, tasted it and gone "YEGADZ, TOO MUCH BUTYRIC ACID"! Or are you just trying to impress us with your knowledge of theory?



Didn't even get to the beer, pulled about 10kg in total out of the cooler at about 12-18 months old and binned them all. Any butyric acid is bad by the way! 

Scotty


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## Nick JD (10/10/11)

I like to get the low AA hops in bulk. When ya putting 100g of Saaz into a 16L batch it doesn't last long.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (10/10/11)

Nick JD said:


> I like to get the low AA hops in bulk. When ya putting 100g of Saaz into a 16L batch it doesn't last long.



I'm finding the same thing with Cascade & Willamette (that and putting 50g of hops into the keg as a dry hop). Burp! Yum.

Goomba


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## jyo (10/10/11)

/// said:


> Didn't even get to the beer, pulled about 10kg in total out of the cooler at about 12-18 months old and binned them all. Any butyric acid is bad by the way!
> 
> Scotty



Please explain mate? I have hops that are well over a year old in my freezer. I have weird and unexplained twitches from time to time but I deal with it. I just googled butyric acid and lost interest.


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## Clutch (10/10/11)

Is that the stuff that makes Parmesan in a can smell like spew?


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## QldKev (10/10/11)

I'm nearly out of my 2006 Clusters, it will be a sad day once they have all gone. 

I must like cheese?

QldKev


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## ekul (10/10/11)

the best coopers clone i ever made was with 5 year old POR from Kevs fridge.


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## Bribie G (10/10/11)

The best APA I ever made was with some scrapings off Kev's toilet bowl  :beerbang:


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## BjornJ (10/10/11)

all good fun and all but I'd take Scotty's word on brewing over many others on here.
No offence to anyone intended but running a brew pub and from the BJCP sessions I attended at his pub I did get a feeling he knows what he is talking about.


Hmm.
Hoping my hops are fine, vacuum sealed and in the freezer.
Worst case scenario I'll just blame it on old hops


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## /// (11/10/11)

jyo said:


> Please explain mate? I have hops that are well over a year old in my freezer. I have weird and unexplained twitches from time to time but I deal with it. I just googled butyric acid and lost interest.



Heres a linkie ... Cheesie Hops

I use the test of opening bag, do the hops smell fresh and resinie? Yes, keep. Smell old, dull and at worse cheesie, to the bin. Yes they are type 90's and the pelleting helps to protect the hops, but why go to all that effort and use a few $$'s worth of old hops. Bit like making a sandwich with stale bread ...

Scotty


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## the_new_darren (11/10/11)

Any chance we can get anymore of these?

Also seems that paying a premium for hops that are "guaranteed" to be new season and fresh from Australian retailers could also be a recipe for disaster! especially when stored for 18 months??

Bring back the Chinese hop buys ($10/kg)

YAY

cheers

the_new_darren


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## Bribie G (11/10/11)

Daz makes a good point, if the Bulk buy on the other forum can come up with some _genuine_ new season hops from China, we could be in for a pleasant surprise - but if they palm Graham off with the last season unsaleables, then same old same old .

Edit; we are up to post 51 with just pure spec, why not put money where mouth is, actually order a kilo and try it out and post useful feedback, worst case scenario lose $20 oh the humanity


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## yardy (3/11/11)

Hop Bonanza

there's been a development.


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## Silo Ted (3/11/11)

EVen cheaper. 

He should call them "Sweatshop Hops"


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## Nick JD (3/11/11)

I bought some Saaz off a guy in Tasmania called Xi. 

Great hops. He also does a mean Wombok.


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## Bribie G (3/11/11)

yardy said:


> Hop Bonanza
> 
> there's been a development.



Ethiopian hops
Now there's a novel idea. 
Looks like there's a diverse brewing industry there, using the finest hops grown in the Ethiopian Highlands. Well I'll try anything once.


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## yardy (3/11/11)

Bribie G said:


> Well I'll try anything once.



I did hear that :icon_cheers: 

re ethiopia : nothing's confirmed yet, my money is still on Nimbin.


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## Silo Ted (3/11/11)

Bribie G said:


> Looks like there's a diverse brewing industry there, using the finest hops grown in the Ethiopian Highlands. Well I'll try anything once.



_It is the only brewery which gets water from a big reserve of soft spring water _(_*locally known as holy water of St. Abo*_)


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## jyo (3/11/11)

/// said:


> Heres a linkie ... Cheesie Hops
> 
> I use the test of opening bag, do the hops smell fresh and resinie? Yes, keep. Smell old, dull and at worse cheesie, to the bin. Yes they are type 90's and the pelleting helps to protect the hops, but why go to all that effort and use a few $$'s worth of old hops. Bit like making a sandwich with stale bread ...
> 
> Scotty



Cheers for the link, mate. 
I haven't noticed any cheesy aromas yet. I keep mine wrapped up tight in airtight containers in the deep freezer.


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## QldKev (3/11/11)

I've got some Chinese hops even cheaper, you pay the postage to get rid of that shit from my house..

Otherwise when ever I remember to dig them out, they go to the bin. 

Even tho as he stated in the other site "(I am banned on many sites)" this is all from selling crappy hops, he still tries to flog this shit. I don't know any facts but he must make some $$$ from it. 

QldKev


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## Online Brewing Supplies (3/11/11)

QldKev said:


> I've got some Chinese hops even cheaper, you pay the postage to get rid of that shit from my house..
> 
> Otherwise when ever I remember to dig them out, they go to the bin.
> 
> ...



I will have them for free and make a great beer because its not about the product its about the ability of the brewer  
Nev


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## Batz (3/11/11)

QldKev said:


> I've got some Chinese hops even cheaper, you pay the postage to get rid of that shit from my house..
> 
> Otherwise when ever I remember to dig them out, they go to the bin.
> 
> ...




But Kev these are not shitty Chinese hops...... these are secret hops from Kagaspangan.

Way, way better than all those other hops we chucked out.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (3/11/11)

Sheesh Nev, on fire tonight.

Way you're going, flame wars are imminent.

Goomba


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## Online Brewing Supplies (3/11/11)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Sheesh Nev, on fire tonight.
> 
> Way you're going, flame wars are imminent.
> 
> Goomba


 :lol: Yep a little loose tonight.No harm intended. Chinese hops are the new thing !
Nev


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## Spoonta (4/11/11)

nev you can have my lot


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## felten (4/11/11)

life is too short to buy shitty hops.


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## Zizzle (4/11/11)

Maybe the hops are from Greece?

Speaking of which, can I use Chinese hops in my expensive German Urn?


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## Bribie G (4/11/11)

I think a lot of the confusion here arises from the original Chinese hops that were crap. Last season's buy actually aren't too bad, so far my latest Chinese SMASH with BB Pils and Danish yeast has been sampled by 2 visitors and quite positive comments. In fact I prefer them to the somewhat underwhelming Saphir I bought from Ellerslie, and they are grown in the Hallertau which ain't South East of the Gobi Desert last time I looked. 

However as I understand it, GLS probably won't be using China again because with our good Dollar and increasing prices out of China, due to their crop now in demand from world brewers, Brazil in particular, it's now just as economical to buy direct from HD Or Nikko - however the Ethiopian stuff sounds interesting, who knows until we try some.


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## manticle (4/11/11)

Some of the confusion may also stem from the fact that GLS is a bit of a nob jockey when it comes to dealing with critical feedback and his secret dealings with secret microbreweries who love everything he does secretly while he buys cheap hops from secret locations make people not want to bother.

I thought the judgemental reaction to the first buy when it was announced was unwarranted but Graham soon dug himself his own little sandpit.


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## QldKev (4/11/11)

Bribie G said:


> I think a lot of the confusion here arises from the original Chinese hops that were crap. Last season's buy actually aren't too bad, so far my latest Chinese SMASH with BB Pils and Danish yeast has been sampled by 2 visitors and quite positive comments. In fact I prefer them to the somewhat underwhelming Saphir I bought from Ellerslie, and they are grown in the Hallertau which ain't South East of the Gobi Desert last time I looked.
> 
> However as I understand it, GLS probably won't be using China again because with our good Dollar and increasing prices out of China, due to their crop now in demand from world brewers, Brazil in particular, it's now just as economical to buy direct from HD Or Nikko - however the Ethiopian stuff sounds interesting, who knows until we try some.



Thats the problem with the Chinese hops, they range from "crap" to "almost ok", they are never "great". For the extra $2 per batch to try and get great / totally awesome hops from the correct regions I think it is worth the investment. I know some of the hops I have opened from Eliserlie have blown me away how great they smell. I spend the time to brew AG to make the best beer I can, if I wanted ok beer I could do kits and bits.


QldKev


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## winkle (4/11/11)

I'm keeping my stale well-aged c-saaz hops for when I work up courage to brew lambics, faro et al.
Had to put marco polo to death at last years case swap for crimes against the brewing community though.


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## technoicon (4/11/11)

yay chinese


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## Mayor of Mildura (4/11/11)

I can't this song out of my head


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## Mayor of Mildura (4/11/11)

I can't construct a legible sentence either.


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## HoppingMad (5/11/11)

A mate of mine brewed a beer with a bunch of free Marco Polo (Columbus) from the first buy. He got them courtesy of a very disgruntled bunch of people who were going to throw them out.

I tried the beer and it was actually quite good. He is a skilled brewer - but the beer did taste bloody unusual.

The words 'Pepper, pepper and more pepper' spring to mind. He made the hops work in the beer - but it was weird.

To anyone contemplating this 'Bonanza' I would say pick a neutral hop - like the Chinese Saaz and anticipate that you get what you pay for, sample other varieties and you're going to have to experiment with these things to find what works. I guess with a bulk volume you will have plenty of batches to trial till you find something that works.

Personally, I'm happy to take less risks and buy Kiwi and Yankee hops direct while our aussie $ is high - no point on the Chinese stuff in my humble opinion as they have a way to go in the hop growing stakes but each to their own. 

You will definately have a brewing adventure with them! 

Hopper.

Edit - speeling


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