# I can't take you anywhere, cider, mead, and wine!



## TimT (9/11/15)

This has been the year of cider, wine, and mead for me. I've generally been quite pleased with my various brews - had some good successes with my ciders and meads - but I've started noticing an issue with my brews. They taste good at home - but when I take them somewhere - to a friend's or to a club meeting - they lose a bit of their character and generally have more off flavours. 

It's leaving me feeling just a bit like the guy who says "No, seriously, it was working until a moment ago!" when he spends hours wiring up a sound system and the band walks on stage to find it doesn't work. It's a bit weird. 

So, any idea what is causing these issues? I've got three guesses: 1) The move disturbs the sediment. 2) Higher temperatures cause more off flavours in my brews (in general I seem to notice that my brews are *very* responsive to the seasons, changing day by day, and minute by minute, having a different smell and character every time I open one. 3) Age; these brews just aren't old enough yet and really need another year or so to settle down.

Depending on what the issue is the solution could be simple or hard or in between - for instance, if all I need to do is give them a good chill for a week before serving them, I'm set.


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## technobabble66 (9/11/15)

Sorry, but:
4) You don't notice the flaws while you're drinking solely your beers at home, or you become desensitised to them. When drinking them next to other people's beers, either with different flaws or no flaws, the flaws in your beers stand out a lot more. I only say this as i've noticed this in some of my beers over the last couple of years. It's merely a relative-perception thing.

I'm guessing if you're brewing more "experimental" beers, you may also get more of both the good flavours and dubious flavours; which again will stand out more compared to other brewers beers.


PS: this has nothing to do with my lack of attendance to MM gatherings this year. Honest!


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## fraser_john (9/11/15)

Cellar palate it is called I believe. Have been the victim of it myself thinking that ale has a nice caramel taste, but on side by side tasting blind with other members beers, WTF is all that butterscotch in that beer, oh, oooopps, its mine, diacetyl, dammit.


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## TimT (9/11/15)

Don't think so Stu - I'm mainly talking about the meads, ciders and wines - I've taken them to parties - most recently yesterday - and won't be drinking *anything* else and still notice the difference between the taste (at home) and the taste (at the party). And the other thing I notice about them when I drink them at home is they are *very* responsive to temperature, with flavours that change dramatically over time.

I think it's something to do with the higher fermented content of these brews since, relatively, beer will have a low gravity compared to wines. (I'm sure higher gravity beers - anything like a porter or above - will tend to developed interesting and unique aged characteristics if we let them, but mostly we tend not to notice these with beers: we tend to drink them fresh, and hops will sometimes mask some of these characteristics).


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## klangers (9/11/15)

Just throwing another possible cause out there - UV light?


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## TimT (9/11/15)

Well I usually take them in a bag. Don't think they get sustained UV exposure, though definitely they get hotter in the car (or on my person).


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## GalBrew (9/11/15)

How old are the beers in question? Depending on how they are brewed and how you store them, they may not have a very long shelf life due to oxidation and staling reactions?


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## TimT (9/11/15)

Though I'd be curious about the effects of UV on wines. Since I generally don't make them with hops, I assume there won't be any issues with them skunking.


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## TimT (9/11/15)

GalBrew, I'm talking wines. Cider, mead, fruit wine. In general I find age is good for them and helps them develop their qualities; in fact when I was speculating on another thread about the smell meads tend to develop as they age (it's delicious) there was one suggestion that it might be a side effect of oxidation.


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## TimT (9/11/15)

Granted, the gravity of cider isn't always that high. Usually starts around 1.055 and will go down to around 1.000, maybe a bit over, maybe a bit under. That puts it more in the mid-strength category - but even with ciders, I usually find that after a few months it will turn into a lovely drink.


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## GalBrew (9/11/15)

Still how are you storing your various wines/meads etc? If they are getting too hot it will kill a wine just as bad as a beer. Also how much sediment do you have in your bottles, if you are transporting them and mixing up some of the crud in the bottom that will also kill a wine (as it would a beer). Sounds like bottle shock, if its only happening after transport.


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## TimT (9/11/15)

Yeah, they're mostly in my study or the bathroom. We don't have a cellar or a fridge big enough to keep them. Temps inside will usually not get above 20; on summer stinkers it might go as high as 30. 

I suppose I should go about tasting the sediment sometime to see what it's like on its own and if the off flavours originate from there!


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## BrutusB (9/11/15)

TimT said:


> Yeah, they're mostly in my study or the bathroom. We don't have a cellar or a fridge big enough to keep them. Temps inside will usually not get above 20; on summer stinkers it might go as high as 30.
> 
> I suppose I should go about tasting the sediment sometime to see what it's like on its own and if the off flavours originate from there!


I'm not a wine maker or anything and I'm going on second hand Info but I've always been told by my friends who make 1000+ L per year that temperature control after fermentation is really important, especially for Wines that haven't had a sulfate added. My friends in Europe have even added aircon to their cellars to maintain a constant 15-17c. My other friend that makes 100,000+L per year has fermenters are all glycol controlled @15c. I'm taking a stab here, but I think the same can be applied to Cider/Mead. When transporting, they tend to keep it as cool as possible as they believe even a few hours outside of this temp range can affect flavor. Like I said, it's second hand info but there may be some truth in it.


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## mr_wibble (9/11/15)

I think it's because you're drinking them warmer.

Do a test: drink one at home, but leave it out of the fridge/cellar/whatever for a while first.


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## TimT (9/11/15)

Interesting. Thanks. 

I think then as I suggested above a simple workaround for this problem would probably be stick the bottles in the fridge for a few days before taking them out and travelling.


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## superstock (9/11/15)

Beg, borrow, or even buy some Sedex caps to remove yeast & dregs so that when you transport they are not a factor in flavour change.


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