# Lauter Helix.



## wide eyed and legless

After taking up a couple of pages in the Guten thread thought it to be a good idea for the Lauter Helix to have its own thread.
Posted by MBB.
Posted Yesterday at 2:32 PM
WEAL,fitted my helix today using an elbow and an end cover, would not fit under the tap so its ok to go over the top?

Makes no difference if you are using it as a pick up as well as a filter the wort should drain down to the top of the helix.

Everyone else who has a screwed fitting, the silicone washers finally arrived and they were posted out last Friday.


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## malt junkie

Weal for those who haven't followed the Guten thread, perhaps some pics and an explanation, and possible availability, or where best to source.


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## wide eyed and legless

Good point MJ, as I had to buy a bulk package I have a few left, they are good for almost any kettle, I have one in my BM 20 litre and one in the Guten, able to filter out hops put straight into the boil with no hop bag or spider.
For the BM. With final runnings





For the Guten.


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## Leyther

Weal, got a silicone washer through the post today, presume it was from you? whats it for?


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## wide eyed and legless

Goes behind the elbow or tee piece whichever you are using, if you use the tee piece parallel then you don't need it if you are going to make a pick up out of the helix then you will need it stop the air getting sucked into the tap before it has reached the top of the helix.


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## malt junkie

Weal; price? or do I need to pm?


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## nosco

Awesome bit o kit


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## Leyther

wide eyed and legless said:


> Goes behind the elbow or tee piece whichever you are using, if you use the tee piece parallel then you don't need it if you are going to make a pick up out of the helix then you will need it stop the air getting sucked into the tap before it has reached the top of the helix.


 
I might need a picture I'm not understanding this at all


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## nosco

So that explains the washer in the mail


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## wide eyed and legless

If you revisit magical pancake giving the demo of the Lauter Helix he fits the silicone washer behind the 'T' piece, he later says it isn't necessary, the way he uses the helix it isn't, he's just draining to tap level.But if you are trying to drain below the level of the tap as would a pick up tube the syphoning effect has to be kept intact so no air can be allowed to be sucked in. Next brew I will do a close up pic.


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## malt and barley blues

Tried the L/Helix out this morning, cloned an Archers Golden Bitter, put some silicone at the elbow and didn't cut back the helix,
heres the results.





Liquor drained out completely and the clarity in the glass shows, no hopsock or spider used, also I dont know if its my imagination but the wort did taste exceptionally hoppy.


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## wobbly

Mine arrived in Broome today but will not get a run until I return home to Perth suburb at the end of August. I/we winter in Sunny Broome for three months each year

When you guys are using this device with either the Brau 20lt or Guten are you whirl pooling while the wort is still hot or chilling and then whirl pooling 

I like to chill first down as low as I can get it with an immersion chiller so as to keep as much of the cold break out of my fermenter (the name of which I'm not allowed to mention on this site)

Any comments you have to make re chilling and whirl pooling would be appreciated

Cheers

Wobbly


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## wide eyed and legless

I no chill Wobbly so I let mine settle to around 80 degrees before I whirlpool then drain when whirpool has stopped, I will use the immersion chiller now and again because not everyone likes that hop bitterness you get when doing a no chill. Leyther will probably be able to answer your question as he chills his wort.
(the name of which I'm not allowed to mention on this site)
I did see that post Wobbly can't for the life of me see what was wrong with it. Good advice as far as I could tell.


That was a fair bit of drainage there MBB, looks like it went below the helix.


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## Leyther

Given you need to have the chiller in the boil for 15 mins I've been trying to whirlpool whilst chilling but I've not had a lot of success at getting a decent whirlpool going and getting the hops to collect in the middle, the chiller gets in the way. I think the go is probably to chill, remove the chiller then whirlpool and drain when its settled, I reckon that should allow the hops to settle in the middle and allow the helix to drain from the sides, thats what I'm going to be doing next.


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## wobbly

WEAL
I'm with you any advice on "Process" can only assist others 

Cheers

Wobbly


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## wobbly

OK so those that are using one of these devices can you comment on the following:-

What is the max and min hops you have used without using any sort of hop sock
Who uses flowers and who uses pellets and is one better/worse than the other
If you have done a hop stand how long do you leave the hops to settle after you whirl pool
When you drain to fermenter/cube (whatever) how fast do you drain (valve fully open, half open what ever)
Cheers

Wobbly


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## malt and barley blues

I can answer questions 3 and 4 Wobbly, 4) I had the tap fully open, drained without missing a beat. 3) 20 to 30 minutes stand whirlpool and drain. 
My hops yesterday were on the minimal side but still left a lot of mess behind 70 grams of pellets.
Couldn't be more pleased with this addition to my brewing gear.


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## Lionman

Do you have any more of these WEAL?

What's the damage?


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## Leyther

Wobbly,

I had about 170g of hops in the kettle on my last brew, as I chilled whilst attempting whirplool I didn't manage to the hops to collect centrally and I also was using the Tpiece with the helix curled back in on itself, with this the drain was slow once the hops started to clog up and I had to keep scraping them off the helix but at least I got the wort out which I would never have managed with the bazooka, took ~30mins to get the full drain.

I'm going to try with elbow and running around the outside next time, also going to make sure I whirlpool with chiller out to get a central collection of the hops, that should allow for better drainage as WEAL done. 

So far i've only used pellets but I'm going to try some flowers next time as I've been given some Victoria vaccum packed, I'll report back when I next brew.


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## Jase

No issues with the hops (I've always used a hopsock) and an exposed element?


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## Liam_snorkel

I want one


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## bevan

Me too!


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## huez

Anyone use one with a pump? I'm interested but whirlpool with a pump, have a feeling it might clog rather quickly.


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## RobW

I have the Bac Brewing version and it runs much better with a pump.
In fact it's way too slow without one. 
These ones look like they drain a bit quicker.

It also means I can pump direct to the fermenter via the cfc.


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## wide eyed and legless

Jase said:


> No issues with the hops (I've always used a hopsock) and an exposed element?


I have always used a hopsock also, it is a simple solution to keeping hop debris out of the wort the whole point of the helix is to get better hop utilisation without adding extra hops to compensate the loss of the utilisation.It was no surprise to read M&BB's post saying his wort tasted more hoppy, we all should have good recall on taste, and I also noticed the extra hop flavour from using a helix rather than the hopsock.


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## Moog

I could benefit from one of those... Do you still have any, if so, how much ?


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## wide eyed and legless

PM sent.


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## Black Devil Dog

wide eyed and legless said:


> Good point MJ, as I had to buy a bulk package I have a few left, they are good for almost any kettle, I have one in my BM 20 litre and one in the Guten, able to filter out hops put straight into the boil with no hop bag or spider.
> For the BM. With final runnings
> View attachment 106727
> View attachment 106729
> View attachment 106730
> 
> For the Guten.
> View attachment 106728
> View attachment 106731
> View attachment 106732





Tony these look like a good bit of gear, nice work. 
I imagine fitting one to a 50l Brau would be much the same as a 20 litre. The helix wouldn't run around the perimeter though, instead it would probably loop around the malt pipe hold down rod. The whirlpool cone would then settle over the top of it.
Any thoughts on how that might affect the performance? 
Can they be modified, or are they available in a longer length?

Cheers.


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## wide eyed and legless

Fittings will be the same Bill and your right it wouldn't fit around the circumference of the 50 litre, but I have been thinking about this as Gavin bought 2, one for his 20 litre BM and I told him to maybe cut the second one in half and cap off the 2 ends.
If you are reading this Gav here is a better idea, you can use a copper capillary connector or some silicone tube and connect the second helix to the first and cut it to size. So Bill if you are interested it can be done quite easily I would cut one in half as there will be others with a 50 litre BM and 1,500mm will fit easily.


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## GoodDuck

Also Interested for 20L BM 
Any left - and what's the damage?


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## nosco

Im brewing a stout today so i wont be able to see how well it really works. I used the elbow because it was already in the pot and the stainless scourer plug because i dont have a proper cap. Im sure the scourer will work fine but a proper cap will be easier to clean.


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## wide eyed and legless

What size is your pot nosco, looks like you could do with another 1/2 a helix like the 50litre BM guys,if you could tuck it under the elbow, the caps are cheap to buy in Bunnings next time you're in there.


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## nosco

98lt so 500mm diameter. Another 1/2 would be good down the track. I broke the budget again so maybe in a week or 3.


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## wide eyed and legless

I have posted this before on the Guten thread, but for those who have bought the helix and not seen the video, this is how magical pancake set his up.


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## wide eyed and legless

As requested by those who will be cutting the helix and joining them here is the pic's.

Bend the coil, don't try and stretch it could end up with a bruised thumb.



Cut with pliers and neaten up the end you are keeping if necessary.



For joining 2 halves together use a copper capillary connector.



When using the 1/2" ball valve the best results is to crack it open gently and empty kettle at around 1/2 choke, if you notice in the above video he does the same thing. I have tried it fully open and 1/2 open while both methods keep the shit out the fermenter the gentle emptying works best.


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## fdsaasdf

wide eyed and legless said:


> For joining 2 halves together use a copper capillary connector.


 An alternative to this is a threaded SS coupler, I use a part similar to this https://www.brewershardware.com/1-2-FPT-Full-Coupler-304-Stainless-Steel.html


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## bevan

Hey weal just checking you got my reply to your pm. Still keen to get one.


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## wide eyed and legless

Sorry mate, my fault, all fixed.


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## wide eyed and legless

For all the interested parties, will have to check how many I have left, the cutting in half for the bigger pots has thrown my records into disarray, back on track today.


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## Black Devil Dog

Got mine in the mail today, looks great, hoping to give it a test drive over the weekend.


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## Howlingdog

Mine was on the front step when I got home, thanks WEAL.


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## FarsideOfCrazy

Has anyone fitted one of these to a grainfather? If so what 'extras' might be needed?

Cheers


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## wide eyed and legless

Robbo fitted one in his, he used some silicone and a capillary tee piece I believe, I know he has done a brew so it must have worked.


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## wide eyed and legless

For those who fall just short of a 1,000 mm circumference instead of having to buy an extra half you could just use some silicone connected to the outlet elbow making a dip tube to extract more wort.

cut silicone at 45 degrees.



Piece of 1/2 inch copper tube to expand silicone to go into copper connector.


Copper connector.


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## nosco

Ive only used it once but i found the helix did mess with my pump recirc a bit. It was struggling for half the mash then for what ever reason it came good and worked as normal. Ill try the t peice with some hose as above next time.


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## Leyther

nosco said:


> Ive only used it once but i found the helix did mess with my pump recirc a bit. It was struggling for half the mash then for what ever reason it came good and worked as normal. Ill try the t peice with some hose as above next time.



Did you have it kinked or around the outside? I had mine kinked but made sure it didn't cover the pump drain hole, didn't have any issues with the pump.


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## GoodDuck

Mine got delivered - thanks WEAL


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## wide eyed and legless

nosco said:


> Ive only used it once but i found the helix did mess with my pump recirc a bit. It was struggling for half the mash then for what ever reason it came good and worked as normal. Ill try the t peice with some hose as above next time.


Nosco which kettle was you using it on, the one you posted the picture of or the Guten?


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## Moog

Got mine yesterday, thanks WEAL


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## nosco

I used it around the outside of my bigger pot, the one in the picture. So it didnt have a kink in it which may have helped. Could have been an air bubble or something. No big deal. Ill try it agian in a few weeks.


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## fdsaasdf

I also found that mine introduced air bubbles and cavitation when used with the pump when I tested it, but I have a separate outlet that sits above the element that I used for mash recirc and whirlpooling so it didn't worry me too much. It seemed to do a decent job with filtering the wort from a wheat-heavy beer with 200g of hop pellets.


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## wide eyed and legless

So, am I understanding this right that the spring traps air on the inside? Easily remedied by opening the outlet as your filling the kettle and bleeding any air out, now I know the compression is good as I have a black thumb nail to prove it, but not letting air out between the coils. I must be mistaken.


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## fdsaasdf

wide eyed and legless said:


> So, am I understanding this right that the spring traps air on the inside? Easily remedied by opening the outlet as your filling the kettle and bleeding any air out, now I know the compression is good as I have a black thumb nail to prove it, but not letting air out between the coils. I must be mistaken.


That will probably work, the key is to remember to try it before mashing in.


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## wide eyed and legless

Well I did try to pick the best out of all the quotes, but I didn't expect something as good as that, I do suppose also that because the circumference on both your pots is larger that would make a difference on the tightness of the coil, a smaller circumference would open up the coil slightly along the back edge. Well pleased.


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## Black Devil Dog

I don't think it's going to work in my 50 litre BM.
There's not enough room between the outer heating coils and the side of the Brau to fit it.
Also, where it fits into the outlet, the Lauter Helix connection protrudes too far into the Brau and prevents the malt pipe from fitting in properly.
I'd have to modify it quite a bit to get it to work.

I'll keep tinkering, but mine might come on the market if I can't find a solution.


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## wide eyed and legless

Here's how the bacbrewing filter fits into the 50 litre Bill if thats any help.
http://www.bacbrewing.com/Joint-Springer-Filter-in-a-Braumeister-BM50


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## Black Devil Dog

It looks like I'll need to cut it and slip it around the outside of the heating coils and re-join it once it's in place. Probably need to shorten it a bit also.
It might cover the pump inlet holes slightly, but hopefully not enough to be an issue.


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## Lionman

Finally fitted mine. Thanks WEAL!


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## wide eyed and legless

You're welcome Nick you could even try a bit of silicone on the end of yours so it tucks in nicely around the edge but should work very well.


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## niftinev

received mine on tuesday

thanks

nev


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## Lionman

First brew the other day with this was a disaster. 

Ended up with pretty much all the trub and hops in the cube after a lot of swearing. The helix just clogged up too easily and I had to keep kinking it with a spoon to get any flow through it.

I must be doing something wrong. Is there a trick to it?


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## wide eyed and legless

Nick, you have to try and keep it to the outer edge of your kettle, get a good whirlpool and open your valve slowly, the only time mine clogged up was with a load of flaked maize in the mix. The last two brews I did on the Guten I opened the valve fully and still barely got any trub or anything going into the cube.


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## Liam_snorkel

Lionman said:


> First brew the other day with this was a disaster.
> 
> Ended up with pretty much all the trub and hops in the cube after a lot of swearing. The helix just clogged up too easily and I had to keep kinking it with a spoon to get any flow through it.
> 
> I must be doing something wrong. Is there a trick to it?



Similar here, although it was fine until about the last 5L (not including trub volume). This was with 170g of hops in the kettle. I think I'll still have to bag them in future.


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## goatchop41

Gave mine its first run on the weekend. I usually get either get a shitload of trub in the cube, or leave about 3L in the urn. I ended up with minimal trub in the cube and only 1.5L left in the urn....great success! There were minimal hops in this one though, so I'll be interested to see how it goes with the IPA that I have planned soon. No trouble with flow at all this run either


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## Thefatdoghead

Got mine in the mail. Thanks mate.
Be a little while until I use it but just looking at that coil I can see itll work perfectly for my new system. 
Where did you get that spring coil from wide eyed?


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## Boxcar

I'll be using one of these in a 1-vessel system i'm designing, so I've been doing a lot of reading over the past few months.



Lionman said:


> First brew the other day with this was a disaster.



The issue with your specific installation is definitely that the spring lacks curvature to open it up. In the image you posted, the end of the spring is perfectly straight which means it's tight and not doing any filtering at all - it's pretty much a solid pipe at that point under negative pressure. Curvature is needed to cause the outside of the spring to open up, creating wedge-shaped (pie shaped) spaces in the coils.

It will be much easier to maintain shape if both ends of the spring are held in place, like for example by a Tee.


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## wide eyed and legless

They are the best system I have come across for filtering the wort, but they will have to be tweaked to fit your system, the 20 litre BM owners who bought should be able to slot them straight in. the spring tension should be used to keep it firmly around the perimeter of the kettle, if you have a larger kettle and didn't buy 2 springs can make it up with 2 connectors and some silicone.
This is the Bombay IPA i did a couple of weeks ago with 180 grams of hops.



A 400 micron hop sock inserted into the cube and what it caught.



And a good whirlpool.


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## Lionman

wide eyed and legless said:


> Nick, you have to try and keep it to the outer edge of your kettle, get a good whirlpool and open your valve slowly, the only time mine clogged up was with a load of flaked maize in the mix. The last two brews I did on the Guten I opened the valve fully and still barely got any trub or anything going into the cube.



I'll try this next time. Should I create a whirlpool at flameout, then let it sit for 10-15mins to let the break fall out of suspension and then crack the tap slowly?

I might get a T piece too to get rid of the straght section and create a slightly tighter curve.



Liam_snorkel said:


> Similar here, although it was fine until about the last 5L (not including trub volume). This was with 170g of hops in the kettle. I think I'll still have to bag them in future.



My brew was only 20g FWH and 20g at 5mins so not much really.



Boxcar said:


> I'll be using one of these in a 1-vessel system i'm designing, so I've been doing a lot of reading over the past few months.
> 
> 
> 
> The issue with your specific installation is definitely that the spring lacks curvature to open it up. In the image you posted, the end of the spring is perfectly straight which means it's tight and not doing any filtering at all - it's pretty much a solid pipe at that point under negative pressure. Curvature is needed to cause the outside of the spring to open up, creating wedge-shaped (pie shaped) spaces in the coils.
> 
> It will be much easier to maintain shape if both ends of the spring are held in place, like for example by a Tee.



I get waqht your saying and agree it will help, but I dont think its the casue of my problem here. See the pic from WEAL in this post https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/lauter-helix.95579/#post-1462782. that looks very similar to mine in terms of the position of the helix, but he has managed ot get a nice pile of trub an hops in the centre of the kettle.

I think maybe I didnt let the trub settle for long enough before racking to the cube. Next time I will let it sit for longer. I'm just impatient!

Thanks for the replies guys.


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## clarkie54

Had a similar problem to Liam_snorkel with my BM20, also with 160g of whirlpool hops. Perfect speed for the first 15L, slow thereafter. But I didn't have the helix in the right spot. I have now taken the spring out of the t piece and ran it round the vertical part of the element, exactly like the photo Weal took. So it's right on the outer edge of the curve of the urn. Plugged it back into the t piece and ready for the next brew which will be a similar amount of hops.


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## Liam_snorkel

Mine was right around the outer edge. I don't get a great whirlpool in the urn because of it's exposed element and smaller diameter than the BM I guess.


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## wide eyed and legless

That also crossed my mind with lionman's set up, I did wonder if his element is acting as a baffle against getting a decent whirlpool.Would a perferated plate as a false bottom help? Should at least get a good whirlpool with nothing to impede it.


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## Lionman

wide eyed and legless said:


> Nick, you have to try and keep it to the outer edge of your kettle, get a good whirlpool and open your valve slowly, the only time mine clogged up was with a load of flaked maize in the mix. The last two brews I did on the Guten I opened the valve fully and still barely got any trub or anything going into the cube.



Did another brew the other day. A red IPA. Worked great this time. 

I tucked the end of the helix under the elbow and it helped form an even curve across the length of the helix.

I waited longer after heat was off to allow more of the trub to settle and then opened the valve only partially. 

Drained perfectly and left all the kettle trub behind. Happy days! 

Thanks mate.


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## wide eyed and legless

Makes a big difference how it is laid out, and the flow rate, glad it worked.


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## Leyther

WEAL, off to Keg King later, I want to block up 1 end of the T-Piece and also ideally the end of the spring, I think you sent me the sizes in the past but I can't find it on the thread, if you have a minute mate can you let me know the size I need to get. Cheers


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## wide eyed and legless

1/2 inch BSP, I will send you an elbow if you like, you can also cover the end of the helix with a copper capillary 20mm end cap,
available from Bunnings.


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## Leyther

wide eyed and legless said:


> 1/2 inch BSP, I will send you an elbow if you like, you can also cover the end of the helix with a copper capillary 20mm end cap,
> available from Bunnings.



No worries mate, I'm brewing Sat so I will pick one up, only a couple of bucks. This the correct plug: http://kegking.com.au/1-2-inch-stainless-hex-plug.html


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## wide eyed and legless

Correct.


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## Tractor

Hi fellas,
I read with interest about the lauter helix. Where can i get one about 1800mm long?
Thanks 
Tractor


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## malt and barley blues

PM WEAL he has the 1 meter one but I believe you can connect them, done 3 brews with mine now hasn't missed a beat, the clearest wort I have ever had.


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## Leyther

Brewday today, went with the helix around the outside this time, put the end over the top of the tap rather than inside. 

About 200g of hops in this one, happy with the results not sure would have got away with much more looking at it but got my full amount into fermentor so no complaints. Also used the old bazooka to good effect as this was a 6.5 kg grain bill. 

Could probably have got a better Whirlpool with more time just used the mixing paddle to swirl


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## wide eyed and legless

My next brew will have a big hop addition so I will see how that goes.
I still have to try another brew with flaked maize and I am also just about out of English bitter so that will be the trial.


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## Leyther

This one was a NEIPA had oats and wheat, sparge was slower than usual but no issue.

I need to learn to Whirlpool better maybe need to get a paint stirrer.

Think today was my best brewday with the guten and the helix, very happy just off to watch the storm then goto the GnG for a well earned beer or two.

Cheers


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## EalingDrop

wide eyed and legless said:


> Nick, you have to try and keep it to the outer edge of your kettle, get a good whirlpool and open your valve slowly, the only time mine clogged up was with a load of flaked maize in the mix. The last two brews I did on the Guten I opened the valve fully and still barely got any trub or anything going into the cube.


Is it possible that I had opened my tap too full at the start on my BM? It drained about 1 litre and stopped after that. I only had 15g of pellets. Maybe it was the 8% oats (500g) in the grist? 

I fitted mine the same way you did WEAL on your BM. I did a whirlpool but I'm not sure how important that step in the process is. Reading the comments it seems like it's not completely necessary.

After siphoning out the wort, the amount of trub left wasn't anymore than usual.


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## wide eyed and legless

If you have changed your tap from the original, to a half inch just open half way, the whirlpool is really important I wait for around 1/2 hour for the thermal movement to stop, but just before or as it slows down make the whirlpool and when it stops slowly open the valve and drain the wort. On the BM with original tap I open it full throttle on the Guten with the 1/2 inch valve I open around halfway to drain.


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## Boxcar

Is there a particular reason you guys aren't connecting both ends of the spring filter? I'd think performance would be much improved. 

And if there's substantial excess, orienting it like on the Helix site:


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## wide eyed and legless

If you look at the picture the helix is under the tee piece, so you are only going to drain the wort as high as the tee piece, if there is room to lower the tee piece as in the BM then it can also work as a dip tube and drain more wort. In the Guten their isn't the room to sit the tee piece on the base of the unit so it works better blanked off with the other end running down at an angle from the tee piece or elbow.


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## clarkie54

Did another brew yesterday with the helix after my adjustment on the BM. 155g of whirlpool hops. Worked much better this time. Tap half open. Still slower which is to be expected, but far quicker then last time and at a consistent speed throughout. Got 21.5L of clear wort instead of 20L. Will do another couple of brews before adjusting my recipe designs but great signs!


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## wide eyed and legless

clarkie54 said:


> Did another brew yesterday with the helix after my adjustment on the BM. 155g of whirlpool hops. Worked much better this time. Tap half open. Still slower which is to be expected, but far quicker then last time and at a consistent speed throughout. Got 21.5L of clear wort instead of 20L. Will do another couple of brews before adjusting my recipe designs but great signs!


I don't know if I asked before, but have you got the BM original tap? If so you can open that fully, I know a lot of the BM users changed them but I can't remember who.


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## clarkie54

Yeh I replaced mine with a ball valve so only opened it half way. I think it's important especially at the start so it's not sucking the trub into the clearer whirlpool area around the helix. Worked well, thanks Weal.


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## Moog

I finally got to try my 1metre helix on Friday, brewed a double batch of firestone walker union jack IPA and it worked a treat.
Up until now I'd used a hop spider and the brews seemed to lack some hop character, so I thought I'd give this a go, and just chuck them all in.
Before with the spider, I'd still end up with a fair amount of hop debris going into the cubes, and then into the fermenter.
When I put the first cube in the fermenter last night, there was NO crap in there, so I'm very pleased with how it worked, the flow coming out the kettle tap was fine, it slowed down to a trickle at the end, as the last bit came out, but it wasn't frustratingly slow or anything, so, hats off to WEAL for some great brewing kit, cheers....


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## wide eyed and legless

I did 3 brews last week, 2 of those had a shit load of hops and I am still amazed how well the helix works.
Glad you're happy with it Moog, but didn't you get 2 lengths of helix?


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## Moog

yea, I think it was 11/2 or something but I can't recall, it was before our big US holiday, (BIG) US holiday......


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## wide eyed and legless

Anyone with the BM who has found the fit to tight behind where the element comes up through the base plate here is a simple solution, a piece of silicone hose, 12mm ID to join the 2 pieces of helix behind the element.



The white one is the heavy duty hose which is a tighter fit but either will do the job.


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## Black Devil Dog

Thanks for that Tony. Just wonder how the silicone would go being in constant contact with the element, especially during a 90 minute boil.


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## wide eyed and legless

I will make one up and give it a go, I would have done it today but BM's loaded and ready to go will do it Saturday.


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## Midnight Brew

WEAL, sorry for the delayed, I've been drowning in homework. Installed a new BM controller and the helix on Sunday. I'll take some pictures when I get around to using it but it Is an easy fit and I've run it under the outside element. Doesn't even touch the malt pipe! Homegrown session ale at the end of the month


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Black Devil Dog said:


> Thanks for that Tony. Just wonder how the silicone would go being in constant contact with the element, especially during a 90 minute boil.


Tried the heavy duty silicone wedged in tight with a half hour boil, the only effect was it seemed to harden the silicone on the side that was touching the element. Another way around it is where the element comes through the base use a reducer as in pic, Midnight Brew has the 50 litre so his pics will come in handy.


----------



## Black Devil Dog

I really like that idea.

It looks like 2 reducers joined together. If so, how are they joined?
Something like this?
Also, are they pressed to fit tightly onto the Lauter Helix, or do they just push in?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Nice tight fit, with a piece of copper tube connecting them.


----------



## Midnight Brew




----------



## Black Devil Dog

Did a brew today with mine and I can't believe how freaking awesome it is. In fact, everyone should get one, they're that good.

Initially I thought that it would be too tight to get the Lauter Helix between the outer heating coil and the side of the Brau.
This concern was completely unwarranted, it fits quite well in fact. I blame my busy life (work, renovations, flu, other shit....) on not spending sufficient time to have a proper look before making the assumption.

The other thing that got me was the way the connections are so tight fitting, I didn't want to pull too hard to disconnect the fittings from the spring, for fear of stretching the spring. It turns out that there's a really neat way of tightening the spring, which makes the spring narrower and the fittings slip over fairly easy. When it's in position, release the spring and viola, tight fit. 

Did a big black ale today with 200 + grams of hops, all late in the boil,and it worked a treat.

Easiest bit of gear to clean too.

10/10.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Well I'm glad you got that sorted Bill, when I had a look at the 50 litre in G&G I thought there was enough room for the helix between the element and the side but I didn't want to try it with the sales guy hovering over me.
How was the flow?


----------



## Black Devil Dog

Yeah, when I first looked at it, I was thinking that because the fittings are so snug, it would be a one piece thing which would need to slip over the coils. But when I spent a little more time on it I was soon able to get them off and make it slip around the coils and then re-connect.

I was going to try a lightly hopped lager first up, but changed my mind and thought '**** it, I'll put it to the test with a bigger load of hops'. 
Glad I did, now I know that it can handle pretty much anything.

I kept the tap open only half way and it flowed perfectly right to the end.

Thanks again for helping out with this.


----------



## Dan Pratt

hi brewers, with this piece of equipment how much wort are you getting out of the kettle?


----------



## Black Devil Dog

I always aim to get 48 litres and often fall just shy of that and with this I got 47, so for me there was not much difference in the end vol.
The main advantage is throwing the hops directly into the boil, rather than use a hop sock/filter, to get the full goodness of the hops.
With this idea there should be no blockage when transferring to cube.


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

Black Devil Dog said:


> rather than use a hop cock/filter




What is this new brewing tool that you talk of?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Dan Pratt said:


> hi brewers, with this piece of equipment how much wort are you getting out of the kettle?


With the 20 litre Dan I have about 1 litre left in the kettle, the helix acts as a dip tube as you can see from the pic, not only that it comes out clear.






That's with the hops thrown straight into the kettle, and the last of the runnings.


----------



## Black Devil Dog

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> What is this new brewing tool that you talk of?


Ha, yeah, oops, typo. 

Auto correct didn't pick it up, so maybe it's a thing.


----------



## wobbly

wide eyed and legless said:


> With the 20 litre Dan I have about 1 litre left in the kettle, the helix acts as a dip tube as you can see from the pic, not only that it comes out clear.View attachment 108409
> View attachment 108410
> 
> That's with the hops thrown straight into the kettle, and the last of the runnings.



Weal
With the Lauter acting as an internal dip tube so as to speak have you extended the draining tap outlet down past the bottom of the helix/BM so as to avoid loss of suction when the level gets below the BM standard tap outlet and if so what did you use.

Cheers

w3


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I don't know if you have used yours yet wobbly, or if you are still wintering in Broome.  But in the kit is a piece of silicone which fits into the outlet and into the elbow, so the air intake stopping the flow of wort doesn't happen until the wort reaches the top of the helix.


----------



## Black Devil Dog

I tilted my BM forward to catch every last drop.


----------



## Midnight Brew

Waste nothing. Consume everything.


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

Fitted my helix with a barb that went into the elbow that you supplied, short length of silicone hose into the helix and onto the barb. Checked to see how it drained with just water, and it siphoned well below the top of the helix. With a slight lean over it drained nearly everything.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I have been wondering how they would go on a fermenter, may have to give it a go on my next brew.


----------



## wobbly

wide eyed and legless said:


> I don't know if you have used yours yet wobbly, or if you are still wintering in Broome.  But in the kit is a piece of silicone which fits into the outlet and into the elbow, so the air intake stopping the flow of wort doesn't happen until the wort reaches the top of the helix.



Been back from Broome for about 2 weeks and did a Mid Strength brew in the BM yesterday. Couple of issues/observations

Cold here so boil off less than normal and OG down a few points (1035 vs 1039)
left about 4lt plus of trub and hop material in BM as lauter lost suction before top of spring exposed - Had tap (1/2 inch ball valve) open full for second half of drain which was most likely the cause of suction loss due to very low flow because of debris build up on spring- No biggy will know better next time
Wort into WW was very clear with virtually no hot break/hop sludge and very little cold break as I chilled to 25C with an immersion chiller, whirlpooled and did 60 min stand before draining
Whilst wort very clear I guess no more so than my previous practice of chilling/whirlpool/60min stand drain slowly and tilt BM towards the end.
Hops (70g pellets boil and steep) were all free in BM where as in previous brews I had always used a hop sock.
Question
My practice has been remove boil hops from BM prior to adding hop stand hops.
What do others do when adding hops directly into the wort and doing a hop stand and then chilling do they use the Beersmith values or do they do something else
e.g. My 60 min boil hops would have been in the wort for the 60 min boil and then chilled to 75C for the hop stand of 20mins and for the duration of the chilling from 75C to 25C (about 30 mins) and then remain in the cool wort for the 60 mins after whirlpool allowing the trub to settle

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Your first hop addition would have had all the AA removed into the wort, I have been 'no chilling' so have not been adding anymore hops after the initial hops until the following day. In saying that I have made a new immersion chiller just in case this technique I am doing does not work, I have made 5 brews doing this and am drinking one which has worked out fine.
If you haven't got it already wobbly I would recommend Gordon Strong's book 'Brewing better Beer' and have a look at his hopping regime.
Found this podcast but haven't watched it hope it may help you wobbly.


----------



## wobbly

wide eyed and legless said:


> Your first hop addition would have had all the AA removed into the wort, I have been 'no chilling' so have not been adding anymore hops after the initial hops until the following day. In saying that I have made a new immersion chiller just in case this technique I am doing does not work, I have made 5 brews doing this and am drinking one which has worked out fine.
> If you haven't got it already wobbly I would recommend Gordon Strong's book 'Brewing better Beer' and have a look at his hopping regime.
> Found this podcast but haven't watched it hope it may help you wobbly.




Yes I have and read that publication and will go back and have a re read and when time permits will also have a listen to the pod cast

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## goatchop41

wobbly said:


> Question
> My practice has been remove boil hops from BM prior to adding hop stand hops.
> What do others do when adding hops directly into the wort and doing a hop stand and then chilling do they use the Beersmith values or do they do something else
> e.g. My 60 min boil hops would have been in the wort for the 60 min boil and then chilled to 75C for the hop stand of 20mins and for the duration of the chilling from 75C to 25C (about 30 mins) and then remain in the cool wort for the 60 mins after whirlpool allowing the trub to settle
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Wobbly



Alpha acid isomerisation is supposed to cease below 79oC. So if you're chilling to 75oC then doing your hop stand, you shouldn't need to worry about IBUs - either those of the hop stand hops, or the bittering hops


----------



## rossbaker

Mine has arrived today (via NSW according to the tracking info ) thanks WEAL. Looks like it should fit nicely onto the 50l keggle. I'll post back to report how it handles the first brewdays.


----------



## mfroes

So it doesnt get clogged at all with like an IPA made with a bunch of pellets?
i've been trying to figure out some way to get the most of the kettle without having to tilt it forward.
I have a 50L one and I always have to move forward because otherwise the control panel hits the table.
this sounds like a good idea.
WEAL, you only selling the coil/helix or the entire package?


----------



## goatchop41

Has anyone else had an issue with the end of their coil moving during their whirlpool? The end of mine got pulled a bit by the force of the whirlpool, and hence was slightly under one side of the trub cone.
Any suggestions for what I can do to avoid this? I'm using it in my 35L Guten, so the free end can't fit/tuck under the elbow that attaches to the tap outlet


----------



## wide eyed and legless

You could use a piece of copper wire to anchor it to the outlet, it did happen to me but just the once.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

mfroes said:


> So it doesnt get clogged at all with like an IPA made with a bunch of pellets?
> i've been trying to figure out some way to get the most of the kettle without having to tilt it forward.
> I have a 50L one and I always have to move forward because otherwise the control panel hits the table.
> this sounds like a good idea.
> WEAL, you only selling the coil/helix or the entire package?


You get the elbow washer helix and end cap as the package.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Got more Helix arriving tomorrow, those waiting if the shipment arrives early enough (morning) I will post out the same day.


----------



## pirateagenda

How do these affect pump flow for recirculating wort during the mash?


----------



## rossbaker

I've only my done a single brew with mine but I can't speak highly enough of it. It fits really snugly in the base of my 50l keggle. I loaded it up with late addition wet Hops and the wort that went into the cubes was the clearest I've had yet, with no drainage issues. Looking forward to throwing a heap of late pellet Hops at it tomorrow when I put an ipa on.


----------



## clarkie54

I switched back to the original braumeister tap for my latest brew. Much better result and consistent flow compared to the ball valve. Will be sticking with it.


----------



## EalingDrop

clarkie54 said:


> I switched back to the original braumeister tap for my latest brew. Much better result and consistent flow compared to the ball valve. Will be sticking with it.


Hi C54 is that with a 20L BM? If so, what's the estimated time to drain 20 odd litres?

After a whirlpool I let it sit for 20 minutes, then very slowly open the tap very slightly but regardless of how much I open even for a moment to see if it could flow faster it took almost an hour to drain about 3/4. The flow was so slow that it eventually stopped and I still had about 5 litres left.

It adds an 1.5 extra hours into brew day and I wonder if there's still something else that needs looking into. I appreciate the clarity going into fermenter, but I've got a conical now and don't need to worry about trub as much.

One last attempt this weekend with the Helix....


----------



## wide eyed and legless

When I drain my Braumeister ED it is less than 5 minutes, I have only have it stick once, I just wait for the thermal movements to subside whirlpool and when all movement stops drain, you can see by all the pics posted that with all that trub which is left in the bottom it doesn't block the helix.


----------



## Black Devil Dog

Yeah, mine drains pretty quickly, even with the tap only half open. 1.5 hours seems like there's definitely something else going on.


----------



## EalingDrop

Black Devil Dog said:


> Yeah, mine drains pretty quickly, even with the tap only half open. 1.5 hours seems like there's definitely something else going on.


1 hour actually, the 1/2 hour is whirlpool and for the trub to settle. 

My helix is under the element and it rests right at the bottom of the pot and forming a perfect ring, but the Helix isn't a snug fit going into the T piece could be reason? The wort is coming out clear, so the filtering is working. Maybe let the trub sit for longer before I drain. Currently I let it settle for about 30 mins after whirlpool (immersion chiller removed of course).


----------



## Black Devil Dog

Can you post a photo of how it's set up? There must be something causing it to block for it to drain that slowly.


----------



## EalingDrop

Sure thing, I'll post next week. Making a Witbier this weekend. Should be an easy job for the Helix. 

Thanks all for looking into it!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I have found that the helix is an ideal fit for the plastic fermeter taps so I will give that a go and see if the yeast gets past it.


----------



## Coalminer

Must be something else going on there
Mine is fitted to a 20L BM under the element with a 1/2" 3 piece valve and fills a 20L cube in about 5-6 min


----------



## wobbly

Coalminer said:


> Must be something else going on there
> Mine is fitted to a 20L BM under the element with a 1/2" 3 piece valve and fills a 20L cube in about 5-6 min



Hmmm

Must be something wrong with my set up somehow as I have mine configured the same as Coalminer in a 20lt Brau and have used it twice and it takes for ever to drain like maybe an hour. 

I use about 100g of pallets free in the boil, add brewbrite 15 mins before end of boil, chill to under 30C with an immersion chiller, water temp permitting, whirlpool and then let stand for about 45 mins and then drain. First couple of liters maybe 5 flow OK but from then on it gets slower and slower to the point about half way though it is down to a trickle.

Maybe the spring is a tad long and staying too compressed. Will try stretching the spring next time unless others have other suggestions 

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## EalingDrop

DIdn't occur to me earlier that I could set it up and take a pic before brewday....

The Helix is a bit longer as you can see from the pic there is a kink near the T Piece. Also the Helix had to be forced quite into the T piece as it's just a bit too big and it's not the most secure, but it's never come off post boil.

Here are some pics.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Black Devil Dog

Nothing obvious from those pics, other than the kink, which might be causing the spring to tighten a bit too much around the perimeter.

You might find that if you can push the spring all the way in it might be enough to get rid of the kink and open the spring very slightly.

I found that by twisting the spring tighter where it goes into the copper connectors, I was able to get it all the way in. Once it's in the connector, you release the tension and it grips tight.

When you need to undo it, just do the same thing.

That might be enough and I'd be inclined to try that before cutting the spring any shorter.


----------



## EalingDrop

Black Devil Dog said:


> Nothing obvious from those pics, other than the kink, which might be causing the spring to tighten a bit too much around the perimeter.
> 
> You might find that if you can push the spring all the way in it might be enough to get rid of the kink and open the spring very slightly.
> 
> I found that by twisting the spring tighter where it goes into the copper connectors, I was able to get it all the way in. Once it's in the connector, you release the tension and it grips tight.
> 
> When you need to undo it, just do the same thing.
> 
> That might be enough and I'd be inclined to try that before cutting the spring any shorter.


Great tip on the 'twist to reduce helix diameter', I've gone the squeeze and flatten sideways which isn't as good because only partially fits into the T piece at an angle.

If the extra Helix is causing the problem based on the pics posted, I'm keen to sort this out before Brewday by cutting it a bit short.


----------



## Black Devil Dog

Once you get it started it's really just like screwing it in.

I had an off-cut and a copper connector laying around so I made a short video.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

wobbly said:


> Hmmm
> 
> Must be something wrong with my set up somehow as I have mine configured the same as Coalminer in a 20lt Brau and have used it twice and it takes for ever to drain like maybe an hour.
> 
> I use about 100g of pallets free in the boil, add brewbrite 15 mins before end of boil, chill to under 30C with an immersion chiller, water temp permitting, whirlpool and then let stand for about 45 mins and then drain. First couple of liters maybe 5 flow OK but from then on it gets slower and slower to the point about half way though it is down to a trickle.
> 
> Maybe the spring is a tad long and staying too compressed. Will try stretching the spring next time unless others have other suggestions
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Wobbly


I wouldn't go stretching it wobbly, the tighter the coils the better, and that amount of hops would be no bother, when I empty mine the flow is more or less constant. On Ealing Drop's photo it looks like the spring isn't all the way in, but I don't know why that would make a difference.


----------



## wobbly

Black Devil Dog said:


> Once you get it started it's really just like screwing it in.
> 
> I had an off-cut and a copper connector laying around so I made a short video.




BDD's use in the video of a connector on the end of the spring that would then slide into the Tee piece would be a good option as a permanent addition as it would make installing and removing the helix a breeze

Wobbly


----------



## wide eyed and legless

wobbly said:


> BDD's use in the video of a connector on the end of the spring that would then slide into the Tee piece would be a good option as a permanent addition as it would make installing and removing the helix a breeze
> 
> Wobbly


That is just a reducer he is using to demonstrate, if you wanted an easier option you could try silicone tube which fits in both ends, but it is easy if you twist the coil the same way as it is wound to reduce the diameter.


----------



## Black Devil Dog

BDD's use in the video of a connector on the end of the spring that would then slide into the Tee piece would be a good option as a permanent addition as it would make installing and removing the helix a breeze



Wobbly, you could use a copper capillary connector and a short length of copper tubing to connect to the 'T'piece.

I had to cut mine to fit around the elements and re-joined it using 2 capillary connectors and some copper tube. the tube slips in and out very easily.

If I was doing it again, instead of cutting it, I'd connect using 1 capillary connector and tubing to the 'T' piece.


----------



## clarkie54

EalingDrop said:


> Hi C54 is that with a 20L BM? If so, what's the estimated time to drain 20 odd litres?
> 
> After a whirlpool I let it sit for 20 minutes, then very slowly open the tap very slightly but regardless of how much I open even for a moment to see if it could flow faster it took almost an hour to drain about 3/4. The flow was so slow that it eventually stopped and I still had about 5 litres left.
> 
> It adds an 1.5 extra hours into brew day and I wonder if there's still something else that needs looking into. I appreciate the clarity going into fermenter, but I've got a conical now and don't need to worry about trub as much.
> 
> One last attempt this weekend with the Helix....
> ]



Yeh BM20. I was having results similar to yours, not quite as bad tho. More 40 mins. So I took it out in frustration but thought I’ll try it again with the original tap. I have a conical too so was prepared to go without. 

I mainly hop stand with my immersion chiller. Brew brite at 10 mins. So chill to 80, take out IC then whirlpool with hops for half hour, add the chiller back and everything is settling while chilling. 

A few things. When I installed the helix back in I did make sure it wasn’t too tight as I think that could be a problem. E.g I raised it a cm or so opposite to the tap to lengthen the diameter a bit, insert it as far as I could into the copper join etc. When whirlpooling stir around the middle stalk as close as possible, not out as far as the electric coil. The tap I think helps so it doesn’t suck the whirlpooled trub back to the coil.

All up 5 - 10 mins to fill the conical, even tho the original tap doesn’t flow as much as a ball valve. My 2c and hopefully I keep getting the same results.


----------



## Black Devil Dog

Good that you've got it sorted. 
I don't know what difference the original tap would make compared to a ball valve though. Sure, the flow is slower with the original, but if you only half open the ball valve, that would be similar. I use a ball valve with mine and it works fine.
Where you stir whirlpool shouldn't affect it either, I wouldn't think. As long as you get a strong vortex, the trub should settle in the centre.


----------



## EalingDrop

clarkie54 said:


> Yeh BM20. I was having results similar to yours, not quite as bad tho. More 40 mins. So I took it out in frustration but thought I’ll try it again with the original tap. I have a conical too so was prepared to go without.
> 
> I mainly hop stand with my immersion chiller. Brew brite at 10 mins. So chill to 80, take out IC then whirlpool with hops for half hour, add the chiller back and everything is settling while chilling.
> 
> A few things. When I installed the helix back in I did make sure it wasn’t too tight as I think that could be a problem. E.g I raised it a cm or so opposite to the tap to lengthen the diameter a bit, insert it as far as I could into the copper join etc. When whirlpooling stir around the middle stalk as close as possible, not out as far as the electric coil. The tap I think helps so it doesn’t suck the whirlpooled trub back to the coil.
> 
> All up 5 - 10 mins to fill the conical, even tho the original tap doesn’t flow as much as a ball valve. My 2c and hopefully I keep getting the same results.


Thanks for that. I've just gone and cut it bit shorter, so it's a much smoother circle. The basics from what I gather is to reduce any straight sections as we need as much curvature as possible.


----------



## Matthias HOSSFELD

Hi there downunder!
This is Matthias, (the "Matt" from "MattMill"). I am new in this forum.
I am the inventor of the Lauterhelix Läuterhexe and I am "delighted" to see my babies here again.


----------



## Jack of all biers

Meister des werbungen/marketing! Na, Matthias!

Ich mag's


----------



## Matthias HOSSFELD

Sorry for appearing marketing-concentrated! 
But I am just happy, my babies seem to find friends on the oposite side of the globe! Some years ago, I'd never believe in this.


----------



## Jack of all biers

Understandable mate (Kumpel). I'd be pleased if I were you too.


----------



## scooterism

Ok, I'm interested.

I have a 70L kettle which is about 450mm DIA, so just under 1500 CIRC.
And I pump.

Would I need 2?

May I have a quote w/ shipping to 4227 please?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

You would need 1 1/2 lengths. Will send a PM.


----------



## Black Devil Dog

Make sure you put the Lauter Helix in before you add the strike water. I forgot today and had to wrestle it into place with about 65 litres of water in my Brau.

I add my water cold so that's ok.

But I can't find an option on Beersmith that allows me to add 25ml of armpit sweat into my recipe.


----------



## Matthias HOSSFELD

Hello,
there are some guys in Europe lautering with the 1800 Läuterhexe 160L and more. 
(normal batches are 20-70L, it works for several thousands of excited homebrewers all over europe as a fantastic flexible and foolproof system) 
Not the helix is the filter, but the fluffy marc (?) bed. (in german: Treberkuchen)
Please note: normally there shouldn't be any underpressure. It works as best in lautering only by gravity. Too fast lautering, esp. in the beginning of the process, encourages clogging. When the filter bed is built, the wort will run out rapidly in one. 
If you use the Lauter Helix in the mash tun or kettle, not in a separate lauter tun, it is good to free it once before lautering from dropped off fine grist and mud with the paddle before start lautering with a settling of appr.15min.
Lautering time should be 1L/min. and it will work great with absolutly clear wort, in any quantity.
best regards
Matthias
PS: I started home brewing in 1986 with a nappy! This lautering method was state of the art at that time!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

This just gets better, brewed an Irish Red , didn't turn out as red as I thought it would, though never used any fancy grain just the roasted barley.
Lauter helix drained really well, made a slight alteration to outlet.


----------



## Dave70

wide eyed and legless said:


> This just gets better, brewed an Irish Red , didn't turn out as red as I thought it would, though never used any fancy grain just the roasted barley.
> Lauter helix drained really well, made a slight alteration to outlet.
> View attachment 111631
> View attachment 111632



Where did you get the helix?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

China, the originals are sold here but costs $95 let me know if you want one.


----------



## Matthias HOSSFELD

Bought in China!?
Bad news for me as the inventor and developer, as well for my australian distributor.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

While it is a really good idea Matthias it is only an extension spring, as this proves some of the most simple ideas are the ones that can achieve the best result. I would like to know what made you think of it?


----------



## Matthias HOSSFELD

Well, I'm a professional designer, developer and also a bit of an inventor.
Seeing problems and finding a solution is my daily bread.
I have realized that it is practical to be able to lauter directly from a heated kettle.
Before Läuter Helix existed, many craftsmen used the filigran, weak stainless steel mesh of high-pressure hoses and made a lauter filter with all kinds of fittings and hose clamps from all materials.
Hydraulic hoses, for example brake hoses have a wire spiral. This inspired me and I built and tested prototypes and after many tests I made them ready for series production.
An astonishingly simple and economical system, sustainable, durable and easy to clean and install. You can use an agitator and heat it in the boiler without heat build-up and burning, mash it and then remove it.
Yes, when you see the finished result, it was and after all it appears of course very simple.
And yet I am proud. It's my baby. And of course I don't like it when my idea is stolen and copied to make money in low-wage countries. 
Me and my family live off my own work without stealing. I'd like to go on that way.
Unfortunately I have not the money to pay lawers worldwide for protecting my ideas and developments. Anyway it whould be a fight against windmills.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I wouldn't be getting to cut about it Matthias, as I said its only a expansion spring, anyone can buy one buy the elbow or tee piece and away they go. But credit where credit is due when most were going down the path of hop socks, hop spiders, false bottoms you went with the spring, so good on you Matthias. Maybe it should rightfully be known as the Hossfeld Filter.


----------



## Dave70

wide eyed and legless said:


> China, the originals are sold here but costs $95 let me know if you want one.



Can you PM me the price. Not trying to be a cheap bastard, just deciding how much more cutting and shutting I want to do with my current rig or build different system from scratch.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

PM sent


----------



## Haciluku

WEAL, can you please PM the price. Thinking of getting some for my 70L boiling kettle.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

PM sent


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I have noticed, and it has been mentioned before the air getting trapped in the helix, my last brew I didn't open the valve at the start which I normally do. When I came to take a hydrometer reading opened the valve and out came some air and clear water, so the water doesn't get into the mix of the mash so it goes to prove how efficient the helix is. The change I made was to change the elbow to a capillary elbow to make the helix easier to fit. Same photo as the last one tried to make it bigger.


----------



## Boxcar

You're wasting a huge percentage of the spring filter by leaving it straight. Use a Tee instead of that elbow to force the straight section into a curve to open it up more and also to aid in draining.

Also, not every extension spring is the same - if this idea were as simple as just getting a spring and sticking some filters on it, I invite anyone to find the correct spring. Not as easy as you might think. Given pots of different diameters, performance will also be affected by the gauge of the wire - every spring will have an idea bend radius range to open it up an appropriate amount.

I bought one of Matthias springs (from US distributor) because it's tested and came in at a decent price that simply made it not worth trying to source and verify some other substitute myself.

BAC in Italy also offer some nice springs with their own custom fittings including designs specifically for Braumeister.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

A tee piece is fine if the outlet is low in the kettle, the reason for going with the elbow is so it forms a siphon effect. As you can see in the above picture it drains well even with a straight section. The wire dia and the coil diameter is the same as the Matthias Lauter Helix, the manufacturers will make them out of whichever material wire gauge and dia requested.


----------



## Leyther

Weal I think I might try the elbow rather than the T piece, whats the size I need to look for. Cheers


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Leyther said:


> Weal I think I might try the elbow rather than the T piece, whats the size I need to look for. Cheers


I will send you one with the PRV no charge.


----------



## Leyther

Cheers mate, much appreciated


----------



## awfulknauful

wide eyed and legless said:


> I have noticed, and it has been mentioned before the air getting trapped in the helix, my last brew I didn't open the valve at the start which I normally do. When I came to take a hydrometer reading opened the valve and out came some air and clear water, so the water doesn't get into the mix of the mash so it goes to prove how efficient the helix is. The change I made was to change the elbow to a capillary elbow to make the helix easier to fit. Same photo as the last one tried to make it bigger.
> View attachment 111676


What is this and where do I get one, looks bloody awsome.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

awfulknauful said:


> What is this and where do I get one, looks bloody awsome.


PM sent.


----------



## awfulknauful

Great mate thanks for that, I can think of a few over here who would be keen.


----------



## nifty

I used mine for the first time today, great piece of kit. I had the tap at half throttle and it was finished in about 10 mins.

cheers
steve


----------



## Leyther

Tried the new elbow this weekend and remembered to Whirlpool!! Fantastic result drained 21L in few minutes.

Not the greatest photo here but very happy with the result, the best drain so far


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Glad it worked for you Leyther, can't make it out was there much wort left in the kettle?


----------



## Leyther

wide eyed and legless said:


> Glad it worked for you Leyther, can't make it out was there much wort left in the kettle?



No just all hops and trub and I didn't whirlpool for that long either as was in a rush.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Did a brew yesterday and nothing would come out of the tap, tried FarsideOfCrazy's idea put a fish slice between a coil and hey presto started to empty, don't know if it is trapped air or what, but a trick to keep in mind.


----------



## markp

Has anyone adapted a lauter helix to a grainfather (current model connect) and if so can you give me details on what fittings were used and any pics would be great. 
Cheers.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

markp said:


> Has anyone adapted a lauter helix to a grainfather (current model connect) and if so can you give me details on what fittings were used and any pics would be great.
> Cheers.


There are a couple of folk with the Grainfather who have bought the Lauter helix, they live around FTG 
I will check up and see if I can track them down.
Pretty sure there is a guy on one of the UK forums who has got one on his Grainfather.


----------



## markp

wide eyed and legless said:


> There are a couple of folk with the Grainfather who have bought the Lauter helix, they live around FTG
> I will check up and see if I can track them down.
> Pretty sure there is a guy on one of the UK forums who has got one on his Grainfather.



Thanks wide eyed, have been googling but not come up with much.
Do you have the specs on the ones you had made ?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Yes mate, 1,000mm long 2mm wire thickness and 22mm dia. I remember looking at the internals of the Grainfather and I know the helix can be utilised using hose.


----------



## markp

wide eyed and legless said:


> Yes mate, 1,000mm long 2mm wire thickness and 22mm dia. I remember looking at the internals of the Grainfather and I know the helix can be utilised using hose.



Never thought to ask but do you have any of the ones you had made left ?
Cheers


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I have had a couple more lots made up since the first lot, if you are interested send a PM.


----------



## graybo

This might have been asked before but are these any good for a grainfather?


----------



## Whistledown

I have a 50cm diam kettle (100 litre) do you have any to fit that. If so what is the cost.
Thanks
Whistledown


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Whistledown said:


> I have a 50cm diam kettle (100 litre) do you have any to fit that. If so what is the cost.
> Thanks
> Whistledown


Yes what I supply is 1.5 lengths of helix along with a capillary joiner, end cap, silicone washer and 1/2 inch s/steel elbow.


----------



## markp

graybo said:


> This might have been asked before but are these any good for a grainfather?



Possibly, probably, maybe, go up a few posts from yours !


----------



## Whistledown

wide eyed and legless said:


> Yes what I supply is 1.5 lengths of helix along with a capillary joiner, end cap, silicone washer and 1/2 inch s/steel elbow.


How do I go about purchasing.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Whistledown said:


> How do I go about purchasing.


PM sent.


----------



## dcwilliam

Hi mate i also am interested in one, could you please send me details.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

graybo said:


> This might have been asked before but are these any good for a grainfather?


Feedback from markp he has his installed in the Grainfather already.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

dcwilliam said:


> Hi mate i also am interested in one, could you please send me details.


Cant send a PM for some reason.


----------



## Jack of all biers

wide eyed and legless said:


> Cant send a PM for some reason.


He's a first poster. It seems that since the troubles of the rebellion new members have to post a certain amount before they can PM or (it seems) be PM'd. Tis' ridiculous, but it is what it is.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Cheers Joab


----------



## markp

pic of grainfather install


----------



## graybo

markp said:


> View attachment 113190
> pic of grainfather install


Markp, looks good. Can you tell me exactly how you attached the elbow to the pump inlet? Does it just push on tight enough?

Graham


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I want to see his next photo which should look like this.


----------



## markp

graybo said:


> Markp, looks good. Can you tell me exactly how you attached the elbow to the pump inlet? Does it just push on tight enough?
> 
> Graham



Graham using the original bazooka filter black silicone tube, I cut that down and the copper elbow sits snugly over that, hope that makes sense. 
Cheers


----------



## graybo

markp said:


> Graham using the original bazooka filter black silicone tube, I cut that down and the copper elbow sits snugly over that, hope that makes sense.
> Cheers


Yes, thanks Mark


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I think you should know, because the Grainfather uses the pump, that when you fill your vessel vent the pump as the helix will have air trapped inside, not sure if that is standard part of the operation of the Grainfather.


----------



## graybo

wide eyed and legless said:


> I think you should know, because the Grainfather uses the pump, that when you fill your vessel vent the pump as the helix will have air trapped inside, not sure if that is standard part of the operation of the Grainfather.


Not sure I follow. I generally dont need to"vent" the pump but sometimes it might lose prime which is usually fixed by turning it off and on again a couple of times. Is this the same as venting?


----------



## markp

graybo said:


> Not sure I follow. I generally dont need to"vent" the pump but sometimes it might lose prime which is usually fixed by turning it off and on again a couple of times. Is this the same as venting?



Graybo 
I just ran my unit to give the helix a clean before I brew with it and you do need to prime or vent the pump, I did this by sucking on the recirc tube just enough to get a bit of water in the pump, you could also run the pump for a couple of seconds before you connect the helix to it. 
Cheers
Mark


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Whichever system you have the helix has to be vented, not so bad on the taps, I have gone through a full mash and the first pour to get the gravity going into the boil comes out clear, so I pour out 3 litres before I take the pre boil gravity


----------



## graybo

Thanks borth for the info


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I would like to know the height from the bottom of the Grainfather to the centre of the tap outlet, if there is enough room it could be more beneficial to use something similar to the Braumeister.


----------



## Wobbly74

Had my first run with it today, turned out into a bit of a horror. I recirculated for the mash and then whirlpooled after, but the flow was very low by the end. I thought the pump was getting blocked and didn't twig to the helix. I ended up dropping the wort to the cube via gravity but only got a trickle out. I ended up having to jiggle the helix about a lot to get it to drain which stirred up the trub and kind of defeated the purpose. Is there a trick to this I'm missing?


----------



## Batz

In case anyone is interested I bought one for my 50lt Braumeister. I've never used it. Happy to pass it on to another brewer somewhat cheaper than buying new. Send me a PM.

Batz


----------



## graybo

wide eyed and legless said:


> I would like to know the height from the bottom of the Grainfather to the centre of the tap outlet, if there is enough room it could be more beneficial to use something similar to the Braumeister.


It's about 2.5 cm


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I thought I had posted before about the problem and how I got round it, I bought one of these.




I have no idea why it fails to drain apart from there being air in the helix, open the spring with the tip of the paddle let it flow and it will keep on flowing.
Seems a bit like a Venturi system.

Copied from the Guten thread.


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

I've tried 4 slightly different fitting methods over 6 brews with the helix and each time it has blocked up with the hop matter after a few seconds to a trickle. It has then taken me then over an hour to drain the 20 odd litres by holding it open with a mash paddle and still getting all the hop matter in the fermenter.

Next brew I'm just going to use the hop screen filter straight on the tap and see if that works any better.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Well I have had no real problems, yes it does get stuck once in a while, very rare for me, over 200 sold in Australia, so they can't be too bad. I was losing about 2 litres in the Braumeister now I lose about 500 ml, I brew at least once a week and I know it doesn't block up, thats why I think the problem if and when it happens is related to air in the system. This is todays result from the BM.


----------



## markp

wide eyed and legless said:


> I would like to know the height from the bottom of the Grainfather to the centre of the tap outlet, if there is enough room it could be more beneficial to use something similar to the Braumeister.



Probably not as favourable using a t piece on the grainfather as the thermo well is fairly close to the pump pick up and the helix won’t quite fit under the thermo well, also if a t was used there would end up being a kink in the helix to get it around the thermo well.
Cheers.


----------



## Black Devil Dog

Batz said:


> In case anyone is interested I bought one for my 50lt Braumeister. I've never used it. Happy to pass it on to another brewer somewhat cheaper than buying new. Send me a PM.
> 
> Batz




I've got one for my 50L Brau too Batz.
I reckon it's a great bit of gear. The biggest benefit for me, is that It allows me to dump hops straight into the boil, rather than use a hop spider. 
The wort drains nice and clear, leaving everything else behind.
Piece of cake to clean also.
I'd recommend giving it a try first before getting rid of it.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

markp said:


> Probably not as favourable using a t piece on the grainfather as the thermo well is fairly close to the pump pick up and the helix won’t quite fit under the thermo well, also if a t was used there would end up being a kink in the helix to get it around the thermo well.
> Cheers.


When I saw the distance I could see it could not use a tee piece, just wanted to be sure.
The photo I put up in post 214 there was no whirlpool, just end of boil and empty, it was a long day I did a double brew using the BM and the Guten, and the BM dragged its feet.


----------



## Batz

Black Devil Dog said:


> I've got one for my 50L Brau too Batz.
> I reckon it's a great bit of gear. The biggest benefit for me, is that It allows me to dump hops straight into the boil, rather than use a hop spider.
> The wort drains nice and clear, leaving everything else behind.
> Piece of cake to clean also.
> I'd recommend giving it a try first before getting rid of it.



Yes perhaps I should, just looked like a PITA to fit between the elements. The whole reason I bought it was to dump hops straight into the boil.


----------



## Leyther

Did a double brew day today, first was just a basic pale, only 20g of hops drained perfectly and super quick so very happy with that. Second was a double IPA , 200g hops straight in the boil, was a bit apprehensive but again drained perfectly and really quick.

I've concluded it's worse to use a hop spider as it gets in the way of a Whirlpool but I still dont understand the occasional time when it trickles, if I could get to the bottom of that I would be in brewing Nirvana!!

Was awesome today!!!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Did you use the immersion chiller Leyther? My prime suspect would be the cold break, after chilling down rapidly that is the only time I have had a problem, one thing to try is getting a good whirlpool going and while everything is in the vortex open the tap.


----------



## Leyther

wide eyed and legless said:


> Did you use the immersion chiller Leyther? My prime suspect would be the cold break, after chilling down rapidly that is the only time I have had a problem, one thing to try is getting a good whirlpool going and while everything is in the vortex open the tap.



No I've moved onto no chill, I can only get down to about 35c with the immersion chiller and a lot of water so still not pitchable anyway. Hopefully I've now found the best method.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Someone who bought a Helix for a BM is missing a capillary elbow and the 21mm piece of silicone hose. PM me and I will send it to you.


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

I've always used the immersion chiller and its blocked every time. Maybe this is the problem. I'd like to hear from others about this.


----------



## cliffo

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> I've always used the immersion chiller and its blocked every time. Maybe this is the problem. I'd like to hear from others about this.



I used mine for the 2nd time today and after the first 10L it just dribbled out though after disconnecting it and draining straight through the tap the coil didn't seem to have much crap on it.

The water-only test I did worked a treat. I also use an immersion chiller.

Don't think I'll go back for a 3rd try.


----------



## fdsaasdf

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> I've always used the immersion chiller and its blocked every time. Maybe this is the problem. I'd like to hear from others about this.


The problem isn't likely to be the immersion chiller - plenty of others who no-chill have issues draining using the spring as well. You need a small diameter vessel to open the spring up enough and even then it's easy to block it up.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

The immersion chiller isn't the problem, I would be putting my money on the cold break after chilling never had a problem with no chill, couple of times with chilling. I have thrown a load of hops in with an AIPA and never blocked. I will try using the immersion chiller again and as I suggested to Leyther I will give it a good whirlpool and open the tap, see what happens. Size of the pot wouldn't make a difference liquid will go through the helix no matter what.


----------



## Lionman

I find the helix doesn't work well if it has no tighter bends in it. It really needs to have a T connection and be be larger than the inner circumference of the kettle so it has to snake towards the centre of the pot in a kind of 'S' shape.

When I first got a helix it came with an elbow connection and a cap on the other end and it really didn't work that well at all. The one I am using now (like the one of the brewpi website) is really very good and I have never blocked it even with over 200g of loose pellets in the kettle. The flow does slow a little but the wort runs very clear. I think it took about 10 mins to drain 40L from my 50L Guten. 

I haven't tried chilling yet though, only no-chill.


----------



## Lionman

Leyther said:


> No I've moved onto no chill, I can only get down to about 35c with the immersion chiller and a lot of water so still not pitchable anyway. Hopefully I've now found the best method.



When using the immersion chiller, are you flowing water through the chiller really slowly? They are a lot more efficient when the flow is slow.


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

Lionman said:


> I find the helix doesn't work well if it has no tighter bends in it. It really needs to have a T connection and be be larger than the inner circumference of the kettle so it has to snake towards the centre of the pot in a kind of 'S' shape.
> 
> When I first got a helix it came with an elbow connection and a cap on the other end and it really didn't work that well at all. The one I am using now (like the one of the brewpi website) is really very good and I have never blocked it even with over 200g of loose pellets in the kettle. The flow does slow a little but the wort runs very clear. I think it took about 10 mins to drain 40L from my 50L Guten.
> 
> I haven't tried chilling yet though, only no-chill.



How does it effect the whirlpool if it comes into the middle of the kettle, or don't you bother?


----------



## Lionman

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> How does it effect the whirlpool if it comes into the middle of the kettle, or don't you bother?



I don't really bother with a 'whirlpool' as such. I do late additions and give the pot a stir for a minute or two and then let it steep for 10-15mins. Works ok.


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

wide eyed and legless said:


> Yes mate, 1,000mm long 2mm wire thickness and 22mm dia. I remember looking at the internals of the Grainfather and I know the helix can be utilised using hose.



Did you get some of these made to a different size?. Mine is only 18mm approx in diameter.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> Did you get some of these made to a different size?. Mine is only 18mm approx in diameter.


No, all the same size and it is 18 mm, don't know where I got the 22 mm from, I had to get 21 mm silicone for the BM buyers, odd size outlet hole. Grainfather buyers used the silicone their bazooka was fastened to and the Robobrew buyers used the same set up as the Guten


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

So today I tried a stainless T piece like lionman, first time the helix didn't block, yay! Started the flow slowly, I could see hops draining into the fermenter but there was nothing I could do about it. After a couple of minutes opened the tap up more and it just kept flowing, didn't slow down at all. Drained the 25 litres in about 5 min. I took some photos but can't resize them with my phone to be able to upload them.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> So today I tried a stainless T piece like lionman, first time the helix didn't block, yay! Started the flow slowly, I could see hops draining into the fermenter but there was nothing I could do about it. After a couple of minutes opened the tap up more and it just kept flowing, didn't slow down at all. Drained the 25 litres in about 5 min. I took some photos but can't resize them with my phone to be able to upload them.


Did you chill, or no chill?

My brew yesterday I chilled, gave a real good stir hoping to get everything into the vortex and opened the tap, started of OK then slowed down after about 5 litres. As I have my helix on a capillary fitting I decided to prize it off with the paddle, turned off the tap prized the capillary fitting off the tap (so I thought) opened the tap and away it went, was only when it had drained found the fitting was still in situ on the tap? I have a saw cut in the capillary fitting which was partly off the end of the tap. I think once the wort was flowing it went through the helix. It is something to do with the cold break, and it is a difficult problem to solve.


----------



## FarsideOfCrazy

Chill, there was about 50g of pellet hops. Whirlfloc at 5 to go then only gentle stirring to help the immersion chiller do it's thing. Every other brew I was stirring fast to try to get a hop cone from the whirlpool after chilling, never worked for me.

After reading what Matthias said about the spring doesn't do the filtering, it's the hop matter that does the filtering. I thought I'd try to not stir up the hop and other stuff that the whirfloc has coagulated together too much in the hope that it stays 'stuck' together better giving a filter bed.

One thing I noticed as it was draining the last little bit it was channelling through a small gap in one spot in the helix where it looked like the hops had been sucked in.

Next time I'll run the wort through the hop spider into the fermenter to catch any hops that get through, I just hope that it drains as well next time.

How do you attach the copper capilary 'T' peice to the tap on the guten?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I don't use a 'T' , I use the elbow I found the T can leave gaps in the coil where as an elbow on a gentle incline will keep the coil closer. I use a 1/2 " BSP barb connection with some silicone tube over the barb,
a saw cut in the elbow make a nice fit for slipping it over the silicone. Save all the fiddling around with threads. 


This is a pic I have posted before when I used a 500 micron hop sock to see what I could catch from a 23 litre brew, and this is all I got through the helix.


----------



## Leyther

I don't think its the volume of hops causing the issue either, my last brew had 200g in the boil and drained no problem, yesterday I had about 50g and it was slow until I did the paddle trick, then it started to flow rapidly, this was hot cube so no cold break issues, its got to be some form of air block I think.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Definitely not hops, what I do is throughout the process is draw of 2=3 litres of wort and tip it back in especially during the mash (for the preboil gravity) and a couple of times during the boil just to make sure the wort trapped inside the helix gets to play. My money is on the cold break.


----------



## Charst

not sure if it was here or the facebook braumeister forum but someone mentioned the original more narrow tap on the braumeister results in slower flow. 

Are people just flicking their 1/2 inch bsp taps on flat out and then the speed of drainage is resulting in blocking the spring? 

Perhaps a slower flow doesn’t draw as much liquid (and matter) through as fast, thus not blocking the spring.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

That was what I wrote on the BM thread, very practical the Germans, a pump which using the pump break effectively stirs the mash and the tap reduced to a 10 or 8 ml orifice to gently let the wort flow out without disturbing the trub. (Though anyone who has worked on a PIV gearbox will know the Germans can over complicate things)


----------



## wide eyed and legless

wide eyed and legless said:


> Someone who bought a Helix for a BM is missing a capillary elbow and the 21mm piece of silicone hose. PM me and I will send it to you.


BUMP


----------



## Tspark

Weal had you still got these for sale mate.


----------



## goatchop41

Had some shitful issues with the helix not flowing when I was trying to drain to my cube for two brew days, even though it worked fine when taking a gravity sample after the mash.
I had a read through this thread and this time I made sure that I vented it as I filled the kettle, and only opened halfway when taking gravity samples. Once I came to drain in to the cube, I opened halfway, then full, and it was fine. Thank god too, because it's a real hassle to pry it open and try to get it flowing when it stops and fills with air. Even worse when you get it flowing, then it stops again!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Tspark said:


> Weal had you still got these for sale mate.


Sorry no, Keg King has them though, they only had 3 or 4 left when I was in there last though they do have more on the way. I have been playing around with the Felix, a shorter version for the fermenter, been trying it out on water, yet to try it on beer.


----------



## Batz

Tspark said:


> Weal had you still got these for sale mate.



I have one I bought from wide eyed and legless mate, never been used. Happy to pass it on to you at a discounted price.
Sent you a message.

Batz


----------



## manoche1998

I spoke to the guys at KegLand and they said that these done seem to work as well as a conventional false bottom and they can easily block but they did say that were getting some in because customers were asking for them. The price seems to be a bit cheaper here:

https://www.kegland.com.au/helix-coil-and-tee.html

It also looks like better value as they have the stainless elbow included. So i dont know what to think now. Is it wort getting one of these or do they just block. Even at the cheaper price I am not sure if it's worth going this direction.


----------



## goatchop41

manoche1998 said:


> I spoke to the guys at KegLand and they said that these done seem to work as well as a conventional false bottom and they can easily block but they did say that were getting some in because customers were asking for them. The price seems to be a bit cheaper here:
> 
> https://www.kegland.com.au/helix-coil-and-tee.html
> 
> It also looks like better value as they have the stainless elbow included. So i dont know what to think now. Is it wort getting one of these or do they just block. Even at the cheaper price I am not sure if it's worth going this direction.



That's bullshit about them blocking 'easily', that's only if you don't use it properly.
They can fill with air and stop flowing if you don't vent the tap initially, and can block if open the tap on full blast straight away after the boil, but even then they're fine most of the time. They keep more crap out than a false bottom - especially when you're talking about draining through a tap on a setup like a Guten - you'd need a high false bottom to get above the tap, or the tap would need a pickup tube that goes under the false bottom.

The helix works great. You just have to vent the tap when you're first filling your kettle/mash tun (keep the tap open as you fill with water, have a bucket under it to catch the water as it starts to come out then close the tap), then when you open the tap after the boil to drain, make sure that you slowly open to halfway, let it flow for a little bit, then you can open fully. Just don't open it full blast straight away


----------



## fdsaasdf

goatchop41 said:


> That's bullshit about them blocking 'easily', that's only if you don't use it properly.
> They can fill with air and stop flowing if you don't vent the tap initially, and can block if open the tap on full blast straight away after the boil, but even then they're fine most of the time. They keep more crap out than a false bottom - especially when you're talking about draining through a tap on a setup like a Guten - you'd need a high false bottom to get above the tap, or the tap would need a pickup tube that goes under the false bottom.
> 
> The helix works great. You just have to vent the tap when you're first filling your kettle/mash tun (keep the tap open as you fill with water, have a bucket under it to catch the water as it starts to come out then close the tap), then when you open the tap after the boil to drain, make sure that you slowly open to halfway, let it flow for a little bit, then you can open fully. Just don't open it full blast straight away


it isn’t bullshit, they can block easily, especially if you use a wide diameter kettle. I stopped using mine on my 82L pot as it continually blocked regardless of any venting.

They work better on a small urn and ok on the robobrew 65L. BTW the Robo65 comes with an additional false bottom above the tap which does a great job of straining sediment off the liquid going to the tap and pump inlet.

KL’s price is a bargain. I paid something like $55 posted from weal for 2.


----------



## goatchop41

fdsaasdf said:


> it isn’t bullshit, they can block easily, especially if you use a wide diameter kettle. I stopped using mine on my 82L pot as it continually blocked regardless of any venting.
> 
> They work better on a small urn and ok on the robobrew 65L. BTW the Robo65 comes with an additional false bottom above the tap which does a great job of straining sediment off the liquid going to the tap and pump inlet.
> 
> KL’s price is a bargain. I paid something like $55 posted from weal for 2.



Don't be that person who blames the product for user error.


----------



## altone

I use one of these in the Guten and while it's true they probably block easily and a false bottom is likely better.
It's also true I haven't had an issue with mine blocking yet (touch wood).

That KL price is ridiculously cheap, but of course they are out of stock.
Those guys are too popular for their own good


----------



## Fro-Daddy

goatchop41 said:


> The helix works great. You just have to vent the tap when you're first filling your kettle/mash tun (keep the tap open as you fill with water, have a bucket under it to catch the water as it starts to come out then close the tap), then when you open the tap after the boil to drain, make sure that you slowly open to halfway, let it flow for a little bit, then you can open fully. Just don't open it full blast straight away


False bottom doesn't have any of those quirks, easy choice for me.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Fro-Daddy said:


> False bottom doesn't have any of those quirks, easy choice for me.


False bottom doesn't stop hop matter going through, the only thing that gets through the helix is the hot break. I think that is the problem if 'no chill' is not in play it will tend to coagulate in the helix.


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## wide eyed and legless

https://www.kegland.com.au/helix-coil-and-tee.html

It also looks like better value as they have the stainless elbow included. So i dont know what to think now. Is it wort getting one of these or do they just block. Even at the cheaper price I am not sure if it's worth going this direction.[/QUOTE]

To me it looks like misleading advertising, which there are consumer laws to abide by. The item has never been in stock so why advertise something before it comes in stock? Same thing with the poppet PRV which never came into fruition.
Its no wonder they have a picture of a monkey on their Brew Doctor pH meter.


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## goatchop41

Fro-Daddy said:


> False bottom doesn't have any of those quirks, easy choice for me.



As WEAL said, a false bottom also lets heaps of shit through. Up to you mate


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## Fro-Daddy

goatchop41 said:


> a false bottom also lets heaps of shit through


I must be one of the lucky ones, very minimal poop in mine.


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## altone

Fro-Daddy said:


> I must be one of the lucky ones, very minimal poop in mine.


Depends on how fine that mesh is and if you nochill you can always leave the leftover crud in the cube.

Cat, skin many ways.


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## markp

I tried a helix on my grainfather and up until you start the chilling process through the CFC they work ok but block as soon as you chill (I also use whirlfloc)they are about as useless as an ashtray on a motor bike. I persisted for about 6 brews trying different things but went back to the grainfather filter and that works far better.


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## wide eyed and legless

It is as I said earlier, 'no chill' no problem, chill and the helix is full of cold break, the spring has to be opened to force the break out of the tap, once it is out it will drain, but it is ideal for the 'no chill'


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## goatchop41

wide eyed and legless said:


> It is as I said earlier, 'no chill' no problem, chill and the helix is full of cold break, the spring has to be opened to force the break out of the tap, once it is out it will drain, but it is ideal for the 'no chill'



Mattias himself said similar


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## nathanvonbeerenstein

wide eyed and legless said:


> https://www.kegland.com.au/helix-coil-and-tee.html
> 
> To me it looks like misleading advertising, which there are consumer laws to abide by. The item has never been in stock so why advertise something before it comes in stock? Same thing with the poppet PRV which never came into fruition.
> Its no wonder they have a picture of a monkey on their Brew Doctor pH meter.



Dude, you just can’t help yourself, can you?... again with the unnecessary Kegland slagging... give it a rinse already.

Just because it looks like misleading or deceptive conduct to you personally, does not make it so at law. Any first-year student could tell you that.


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## fdsaasdf

goatchop41 said:


> Don't be that person who blames the product for user error.


 Sorry for contributing to the conversation without seeking your blessing. Perhaps you could share your infinite wisdom on the subject with a wiki analysis on kettle filtering methods?


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## wide eyed and legless

goatchop41 said:


> Mattias himself said similar


He did too, it was really designed for a mash tun only.



nathanvonbeerenstein said:


> Dude, you just can’t help yourself, can you?... again with the unnecessary Kegland slagging... give it a rinse already.
> 
> Just because it looks like misleading or deceptive conduct to you personally, does not make it so at law. Any first-year student could tell you that.


They wouldn't get any trouble from me if they stayed in the Keg Land thread, its when they set up the bogus accounts, so they can muddy the waters or promote in other threads.


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## goatchop41

fdsaasdf said:


> Sorry for contributing to the conversation without seeking your blessing. Perhaps you could share your infinite wisdom on the subject with a wiki analysis on kettle filtering methods?



Just pointing out that your overarching point of 'this thing doesn't work and is crap' was incorrect, simply due to you using the item incorrectly.
A useful addition to the conversation would have been 'it doesn't work with the way that I used it'. It does work well, it just has a few nuances like most equipment does. No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater


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## Wobbly74

I think it comes down to what system it's employed on. I didn't have any luck with it which I think is because I'm drawing through it during recirculation. The recirc was working fine but the drop into the cube didn't go so well. Pity, like the idea, but doesn't seem to work well in this particular application. But no doubt works lovely in other applications.


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## fdsaasdf

goatchop41 said:


> Just pointing out that your overarching point of 'this thing doesn't work and is crap' was incorrect, simply due to you using the item incorrectly.
> A useful addition to the conversation would have been 'it doesn't work with the way that I used it'. It does work well, it just has a few nuances like most equipment does. No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater


I think we'd all be better off if you took some of your own advice and added something useful to the conversation instead of presenting your own narrow opinions as some sort of undeniable fact. 

I've offered my experience using this piece of equipment on 3 different setups now, for the purpose of informing others who are considering it now it is more easily available through retail outlets. As an early adopter there wasn't much by way of advice on these before mine arrived. 

The point of this community is to share information and experiences to inform others, and hopefully help them make informed decisions like "is this thing definitely going to work or is there something I need to consider about the brew rig I put it in?".


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## Coalminer

Oh FFS it's a spring. Just have a look at it 
The smaller the diameter of the vessel the more open the outside of the coils will be and the easier it will flow
I originally got mine from WEAL for my Braumeister and it worked well ( other than a pain in the arse to fit due to it being the same size as the distance between the element and the side of the kettle)
I put it in a 50L kettle and it did not perform as well due to the larger diameter of the pot, so I don't use it in that pot. (don't boil in the Brau any more but that is a different story)


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## wide eyed and legless

I think for the record it should be stated that it works fine in a 'no chill' situation. If chilling it can be hit and miss, with miss being the most operative word. A larger dia kettle would benefit from a heavier gauge wire so as it curves around the coil will open up just enough to let the wort out and keep the debris in. 


This is all I collected running the wort through a 500 micron hop sock

The final runnings with the hot break now cooling


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## goatchop41

fdsaasdf said:


> The point of this community is to share information and experiences to inform others, and hopefully help them make informed decisions like "is this thing definitely going to work or is there something I need to consider about the brew rig I put it in?".



Which is exactly what I have said..."It does work well, it just has a few nuances like most equipment does" - these nuances have been elaborated on above.
Either way, we'll just agree to disagree


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## nathanvonbeerenstein

wide eyed and legless said:


> They wouldn't get any trouble from me if they stayed in the Keg Land thread, its when they set up the bogus accounts, so they can muddy the waters or promote in other threads.


Even when they do keep to their thread it seems they can't escape your incessant shit-slinging. Ironic too you're dragging their name through the dirt yet again in an also unrelated thread.
Point out these 'bogus accounts to me' if you could please? since being transparent and direct is of evident high value to you, I imagine you could do so easily. Oh, and also any affiliations should you have them.



wide eyed and legless said:


> Its no wonder they have a picture of a monkey on their Brew Doctor pH meter.



You realise that it's a picture of a doctor on their 'beverage doctor' Ph meters, right?

Constructive criticism has its place, but yours can hardly be deemed so.


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## altone

@wide eyed and legless @goatchop41 @fdsaasdf @nathanvonbeerenstein 
This is a forum guys and this thread is about lauter helixes.

Stop with the character assassination and just add to the info including your personal experiences.

Is WEAL biased? hell yeah! Does WEAL often give out useful info - yep
Same goes for goatchop.and most likely the others mentioned.

Do Kegland abuse their sponsor status - I think so, absolutely
Do they provide decent gear at great prices - absolutely
Do they stretch the truth sometimes?


> Cheaper pH meters only have single or double point calibration. For brewing we often operate over a large range right down to 2.5 for testing sanitiser solution and high up for alkiline cleaners. We also need the pH meter to be accurate at the mid range for brewing. As a result we have got triple point calibration.


Well my $12 Chinese pH meter has 3 point calibration and seems accurate compared to test strips.
And all the products they "designed" perhaps selected would be more appropriate.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Waterpr...=item3b19b8fe5f:g:yAwAAOSwtQZbg-cd:rk:26:pf:0
Look familiar?

Will I still buy Keglands pH meter when my crappy one dies - probably as I can't afford one of the really good ones.

I'm just saying information over POV although this whole post is my own POV.

Back to the helix - works for me doing no chill but I can see in larger diameter vessels and for those who chill it may not be the ideal choice.


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## Fro-Daddy

Are they easy to clean?
Not sure if you can just run solution through them or if you should pull it off and scrub each time.


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## altone

Fro-Daddy said:


> Are they easy to clean?
> Not sure if you can just run solution through them or if you should pull it off and scrub each time.


Well I just pump Percarb through it by attaching the top arm to the bottom valve with silicone tube for a while.
I tip the dirty stuff out manually, do another percarb wash normally and let that drain out through the helix and valve.

Honestly don't know if that's a good way but works so far.


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## Chap

So I’m thinking about purchasing a helix, here’s my brew gear:
-40L crown urn concealed element
-BIAB 
-recirc with ball valve
-whirfloc at 15min
-whirlpool
-no chill

The questions that I can’t seem to find an answer too: 

How do these go with recirculating?
How does BIAB/whirfloc affect the recirc/draining to cube if at all?
Is a whirlpool still required or recommended with the helix?

Thanks all [emoji16][emoji482]


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## goatchop41

Chap said:


> How do these go with recirculating?
> How does BIAB/whirfloc affect the recirc/draining to cube if at all?
> Is a whirlpool still required or recommended with the helix?



1) I can't comment, as my recirc goes through a separate outlet, not through the helix.

2) It doesn't, if anything the whirlfloc should help the helix as the bigger protein clumps will sit around the helix and act as a filter for the finer proteins and gunk

3) I haven't really tried it without a whirlpool, I always do one with it and end up with a great cone resting in the middle of the kettle, so I recommend it based on that. Might not be necessary, but I'm not sure


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## wide eyed and legless

Chap said:


> So I’m thinking about purchasing a helix, here’s my brew gear:
> -40L crown urn concealed element
> -BIAB
> -recirc with ball valve
> -whirfloc at 15min
> -whirlpool
> -no chill
> 
> The questions that I can’t seem to find an answer too:
> 
> How do these go with recirculating?
> How does BIAB/whirfloc affect the recirc/draining to cube if at all?
> Is a whirlpool still required or recommended with the helix?
> 
> Thanks all [emoji16][emoji482]


Others have posted on here about recirculating through the ball valve, yes it works but make sure you vent the helix before starting the pump, whirfloc does not present any problems, I have discharged the wort with and without a whirlpool without any noticeable difference, I believe I may have put up a photo of a no whirpool drain. The hop matter will not block the helix, as I have mentioned in a couple of posts I believe it to be the hot break starting to coagulate as it cools which blocks the helix. No chill is fine.


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## Chap

wide eyed and legless said:


> but make sure you vent the helix before starting the pump


How do you go about venting? I assume that means removing the air from it?


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## wide eyed and legless

Chap said:


> How do you go about venting? I assume that means removing the air from it?


Yes that's correct, surprising how the spring tension keeps air in.


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## Chap

wide eyed and legless said:


> Yes that's correct, surprising how the spring tension keeps air in.



So would I just turn the tap on to bleed the air or is there another trick to it?


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## wide eyed and legless

Yes just turn on the tap and 'Let it bleed' Do it at the start and pour it back in and prior to taking pre boil gravity run about 2 or 3 litres through it, and tip back in otherwise you will be measuring the gravity of the contents of the helix. You will see the difference in the colour of the first drop which comes out, it will be very pale because it hasn't been involved with any recirculating.


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## Chap

wide eyed and legless said:


> Yes just turn on the tap and 'Let it bleed' Do it at the start and pour it back in and prior to taking pre boil gravity run about 2 or 3 litres through it, and tip back in otherwise you will be measuring the gravity of the contents of the helix. You will see the difference in the colour of the first drop which comes out, it will be very pale because it hasn't been involved with any recirculating.


Cheers for the explanations, cant wait to get one!


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## wide eyed and legless

Finished today's brew day, never fails to amaze how that helix works.


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## billygoat

wide eyed and legless said:


> Finished today's brew day, never fails to amaze how that helix works.
> View attachment 114723


WEAL, do you pump to your fermenter or gravity feed?


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## wide eyed and legless

billygoat said:


> WEAL, do you pump to your fermenter or gravity feed?


Gravity.


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## billygoat

wide eyed and legless said:


> Gravity.


Cheers
Just read through the whole thread. Was thinking of using the helix in place of my pick up tube but on reading the thread I might rethink.
I am using a 1 vessel recirculation system. I then chill with an immersion chiller, whirlpool, rest for 45 mins to let settle, then gravity feed into the fermenter.
It seems people who chill in the kettle seem to have flow problems with the cold break.
Is that how you read it?


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## FarsideOfCrazy

billygoat said:


> Cheers
> Just read through the whole thread. Was thinking of using the helix in place of my pick up tube but on reading the thread I might rethink.
> I am using a 1 vessel recirculation system. I then chill with an immersion chiller, whirlpool, rest for 45 mins to let settle, then gravity feed into the fermenter.
> It seems people who chill in the kettle seem to have flow problems with the cold break.
> Is that how you read it?


I'd agree. I've used the helix about a dozen times and only had it drain easily once. I chill with the immersion chiller in the guten.


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## billygoat

FarsideOfCrazy said:


> I'd agree. I've used the helix about a dozen times and only had it drain easily once. I chill with the immersion chiller in the guten.


Cheers


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## wide eyed and legless

They are only good for 'no chill', it can filter any amount of hops but the cold break will block it.


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## billygoat

wide eyed and legless said:


> They are only good for 'no chill', it can filter any amount of hops but the cold break will block it.


Thanks


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## Rob_555

WEAL where do you get the elbow and end cover from?


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## sp0rk

Rob_555 said:


> WEAL where do you get the elbow and end cover from?


https://www.bunnings.com.au/kinetic-20mm-copper-capillary-end-cap_p4880055
https://www.bunnings.com.au/kinetic-20mm-90-degrees-copper-capillary-elbow_p4880002
I know this is from a couple of months ago, but I've just finished re-reading this thread for inspiration on setting up a helix coil in my Guten and thought I'd give the answer


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## dibbz

I got one from kegland. It's not as magical as I expected. You can mash it around when it's blocked but I get heaps of trub in the last cube anyway.


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## TheSumOfAllBeers

It might work better as a trub dam.


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## wide eyed and legless

TheSumOfAllBeers said:


> It might work better as a trub dam.


That's a good idea, I actually know someone who did that when he didn't know how to set it up, one of the first ones I sold. He has a large kettle so joined 2 together. He said it worked, all the trub got trapped in the centre after whirlpooling.


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## Truman42

I chill in my guten with an immersion chiller and also whirlpool with the pump whilst chilling. I then drain via the helix to my fermenter and have had no issues so far. But I do use the hop spider.


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## wide eyed and legless

Truman42 said:


> I chill in my guten with an immersion chiller and also whirlpool with the pump whilst chilling. I then drain via the helix to my fermenter and have had no issues so far. But I do use the hop spider.


I tried the whirlpool on my last brew the pump got clogged I do have a spare pump which I have used before coming straight from the tap. Also my last brew I got some trub into the fermenter because my pick up tube had dropped down, now I have put a helix coil the full circumference of the Guten which will also prevent my pick up tube from dropping. I will have to do two brews now, one with the dam and one with the whirlpool and helix.


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## TheSumOfAllBeers

wide eyed and legless said:


> That's a good idea, I actually know someone who did that when he didn't know how to set it up, one of the first ones I sold. He has a large kettle so joined 2 together. He said it worked, all the trub got trapped in the centre after whirlpooling.



Obviously this only works if you are using pellets, I think you might have issues if you mix pellet and leaf, or a lot of leaf.

But I have always found that a whirlpool post flame out will deposit my trub and hops in a neat pile in the centre of my kettle, and if I am careful with how I draw it off, this remains undisturbed. A trub dam could work very well at encouraging this pile to stay where it is.


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## wide eyed and legless

TheSumOfAllBeers said:


> Obviously this only works if you are using pellets, I think you might have issues if you mix pellet and leaf, or a lot of leaf.
> 
> But I have always found that a whirlpool post flame out will deposit my trub and hops in a neat pile in the centre of my kettle, and if I am careful with how I draw it off, this remains undisturbed. A trub dam could work very well at encouraging this pile to stay where it is.


That is what I think will happen, I also have a reducer to 8 mm in the pick up so there is less suction.


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## Truman42

This is how I have mine setup. So it seems to dam everything in the middle.


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## 2095brewer

Truman42 said:


> This is how I have mine setup. So it seems to dam everything in the middle.


Truman, do you chill or not? I’m trying to find solutions to the helix continually blocking. It’s a PITA. If anyone chills and has a pain free way to transfer out to the fermenter, please yell out.


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## Truman42

2095brewer said:


> Truman, do you chill or not? I’m trying to find solutions to the helix continually blocking. It’s a PITA. If anyone chills and has a pain free way to transfer out to the fermenter, please yell out.


I do both and so far havent had a problem draining via the Helix but I do use a hop spider.


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## TheSumOfAllBeers

At my last brew I added a little more liquor to begin with, did a decent whirlpool and stand, no chill. The trub cone stayed intact, and I got bright beerinto the cubes.

Look at how bright the beer is around the trub come. I was able to draw off 4L for starter wort


----------



## sp0rk

So I made a thing
This lowers the helix to the bottom of the guten and gives the lowest possible pickup
I'm yet to give it a whirl and I'm not completely happy with it's position, so if it doesn't really work I'm going to try another design I have in mind


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## FarsideOfCrazy

Looks good spork, let us know it goes. I'm still looking for an answer to get it to work.

Will this have the pump running through it, or just straight put the tap?


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## wide eyed and legless

sp0rk said:


> View attachment 116053
> 
> So I made a thing
> This lowers the helix to the bottom of the guten and gives the lowest possible pickup
> I'm yet to give it a whirl and I'm not completely happy with it's position, so if it doesn't really work I'm going to try another design I have in mind


Are you going to chill sp0rk?


----------



## sp0rk

wide eyed and legless said:


> Are you going to chill sp0rk?


Most of the time no, but I'll give it a try


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Second go today using the helix to transfer wort at 24C, it does work just a couple of things to iron out.


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## sp0rk

wide eyed and legless said:


> Second go today using the helix to transfer wort at 24C, it does work just a couple of things to iron out.
> View attachment 116369
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 116368


is that hot glue sealing your tap?


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## wide eyed and legless

sp0rk said:


> is that hot glue sealing your tap?


No, just a bog standard tap.


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## wide eyed and legless

Another go today using the double helix with a vertical, took 20 mins to empty the kettle a lot quicker than the last time. This time it was 27 C as opposed to 24 C I reckon it would be a breeze at 30 C.
A California common with 110 gram of hops thrown in.


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## Reg Holt

Looks like it's working OK, how much was left in the bottom of the kettle? What yeast are you going to use?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Forgot to put the pic up of the slurry that was left. About a litre, the yeast I have used is Crossmyloof California Common.


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## Reg Holt

I can see I may have to give this a go, I don't use a spider so could be a way of extracting a bit more wort.


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## wide eyed and legless

Lauter helix x 4 metres, brewed an ordinary bitter tried the helix x 4 emptied the cooled wort in about 5 minutes still about 2 litres of wort lost but happy with the speed of transfer to the fermenter and clarity.


----------

