# AG Hefe - suddenly my confidence wanes



## Kiwifirst (27/12/13)

Hi y'all. Bit of a lurker here, but I wanted to post to discuss hefeweizen brewing. I have never been a big German beer fan. Couple of months back I visited the Black Forest and Bavaria and my appreciation for a freshly made HefeWeizen went up many notches. I knew as soon as I had time, I wanted to try a Hefe at home.

So, I usually make APA's, there is always a west coast Pale Ale on tap and another beer for freinds who don't like hops and bitterness. Currently that is a Kolsch. I am pretty confident with my brewing when it comes to APA's and pretty much know what result I am going to get. So my confidence in what I was going to get with my Hefe was way lower.

Tonight I kegged the Hefe, 6 days from beginning, ran from 1.051 down to 1.014, normally I'd leave it a couple more days, but my freezer has broken and its going to be 39c tomorrow.

Recipe:

2.6kg Belstmaltz Wheat
2.6kg Bestmaltz Pils
100g Wayermann Carahell

20g Hallertauer MittelFrueh - 60 mins
20g Hallertauer MittelFrueh - 10 mins

1 pkt Wyest Weihenstephan Weizen

Mashed at 65c batch sparged, boiled 60 mins.

Freezer broke down and so had to ferment in the spare bathroom with water in the bath and a wet towel.
First day at 24c, then 22c then a couple days at 20c then last 2 days at 22c.

Even though I have only just kegged it, I of course, needed to test the outcome. Bear in mind my expectations are from some Bavarian festival where the beer was served very fresh and was just delightful, especially when served by busty frauleins.

My first impression is that I can see potential but it is no where near the flavour I wanted. There is a bit of banana and then some good after taste, especially in the nose of that clove flavour, but it is all very mild and not the powerful flavour I was expecting. I was recently confused about under and over pitching yeast in a hefe and am already thinking about my next batch. So I am looking for advice...... did the 4c fluctuation make a difference? I am mashing in a cooler, so decoction is a bit difficult. Should I try the same recipe and make a starter or use 2 of the 3068 Weihenstephan or should I run even less than 1 packet? Seeing how the brew day was only 6 days ago am I jumping the gun and should expect some further development of flavour?

Sorry for the long post, I guess i have 3 years of lurking and no posting to blame for that.

Thanks ahead of time if you read all this


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## manticle (27/12/13)

Do you want more clove or more banana?


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## Kiwifirst (27/12/13)

manticle said:


> Do you want more clove or more banana?


Well to be honest a bit more of everything. I like the current taste, with the a earlier banana and then finishing with the clove taste, I just want more of the same, if that makes sense. It is almost like, trying to find a way to explain it, that it is the right taste, but needs a month to develop and then it would be perfect, but I am under the impression that won't happen with a Hefe.


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## Dan Pratt (27/12/13)

What's your water like?


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## Kiwifirst (27/12/13)

Mg 2.2
Ca 9.4
Alk 15 mg/L

Always been good for the Pale Ales. I guess I could lower the PH a little. But looking at the 'how to brew' book and assuming I did it right. My water comes out at about 0 and/or 5.7 on the chart.

Now I am glad I spent the time reading up on that, so I could actually answer the question with more than just "wet and sometimes cold"


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## brewtas (27/12/13)

You say you've just kegged it, is it carbonated yet? Carbonation can definitely help the aroma come across and will change the way you perceive the flavour.


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## Kiwifirst (27/12/13)

Literally 30 mins after putting it in the keg I tried a sample and posted this. So I am very happy to read your comment  I usually carbonate to about 10psi. I have this at 14psi at the moment. So maybe when it changes to carbonated and served at 7c it will be different to 22c and uncarbonated.


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## brewtas (27/12/13)

It still might not be what you're after but all is not lost yet.


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## Kiwifirst (27/12/13)

Yeah, for sure all 'not lost'. Just looking for more  Probably jumping the gun a bit. But I am quite excited about the challenge of a brewing a good Hefe. I have my APA's down pat and enjoying a really good one right now, i must say so myself 

So pushing into a new style that is not so easy to brew is a challenge, especially with the brew freezer dying in summer. oh, I see you are in Hobart, let me re-phrase that, dying in summer in Melbourne 

Overnight low of 15 max 38


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## surly (27/12/13)

Hey Kiwifirst, this thread may help a bit: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/76341-which-wheat-yeast-and-fermentation-temp-for-big-banana-flavouraroma/
I have just kegged my second Hefe, similar recipe to yours. My first had a strong hit of banana, second less so (all round milder, more attenuated and a bit more clove). There was a bit of inconsistency with efficiency and ferment temp, but the one DELIBERATE diff was that I made a 1L starter for the second. Just pitched the smackpack for the first.


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## Kiwifirst (27/12/13)

Ye Gods, that thread just fried my brain. Too many of the 6.6% APA's me thinks.

I think the thing that is confusing me the most is the pitching rate. what is a smack pack of 3068 ? about a billion? 

Mash Maestro you said you used a starter for the second but it was milder? I have the mix right, between banana and clove, but actually want more of both. 

Also excuse my lack of knowledge, but when you say the second beer was more attenuated, what do you mean by that? Does this mean it had more body? Because I normally mash at 67 for my APA's and they have loads of 'depth' to them when you drink them, I think this Hefe is going to feel lighter when drinking.

I should have posted more often, I am enjoying this discussion.


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## brewtas (27/12/13)

Haha! It was 18C here today. Practically lager brewing weather. 

Brewing a good hefe is awesome. The good thing is that it's all about dialling in a process (and ingredients). Your freezer dying screws you a bit this time but you'll get a sense of where to go from here.

Don't worry about pitching rate. Temperature is a better way to manage the yeast. Lower for clove, higher for banana.

More attenuated means it finished with a lower gravity. Personally I think 67C is a bit high, I'd go for 65C, hefeweizens aren't meant to be full bodied.

Glad you've broken your silence. Keep posting! It's always good to talk beer with likeminded people.


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## Scooby Tha Newbie (27/12/13)

I'm enjoying this thread as well. It will be my start at learning this type (style)of beer.


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## Kiwifirst (27/12/13)

LOL well i got that part right. My APA's are at 67 but I did this Hefe at 65c. I nailed that pretty well and had it at 65 for the full hour. I think the temp change between 20 and 24 probably gave me a good range of all flavours  and hopefully as it chills and carbonates it will develop. I'll definitely come back and report in a few days on the first off pours. 

Hi Scooby, it certainly is a more challenging beer style if you have pre-conceived expectations 
for me it is usually, as long as it has at least 70% pale malt and at least two american hops beginning with C I can't go wrong 
With this.....phew.... work, attention, research etc etc


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## manticle (27/12/13)

Ferulic acid rest will push clove with the right yeast. Underpitching or warmer ferment should push banana.

I prefer clove although hefe is not my favourite style.


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## Kiwifirst (27/12/13)

*Ferulic acid rest*

Great. Something else to research.


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## Mr. No-Tip (28/12/13)

I think pushing into the 20s for Hefe's is a bit of a miss. There's a natural inclination that higher = more esters. That may be true, but I think for a true, balanced hefe, sub 20 is the way to go. You may have heard of the 30 degree rule (eg: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/58737-thirty-degree-rule/)...pitch and ferment should add up to 30. Some may call it an old wives tale, but it works for me. I think the Jamil show on wheat beers pushes this approach as well. 

On advice from a german homebrewer I respect, I tried pitching at 12 and letting naturally ramp up to 18 over a few days....lots of stress through days of lag.
Huge risk of infection, I thought. Dead in the water, I thought. Eventually it hit it and went like the clappers. I then had more stress during bottling, seeing these huge krausen rings in my bottle so bad I posted in the infection thread.

Anyways, the resultant beer took was a 128 point 1st place beer at both the ACTABC and AABC this year, so despite all the stress the technique works. Granted, there was other advice as well. Decoction was suggested. I did not decoct, but did step mash including a ferulic rest.

This was my recipe - split into two batches (one ended up on quince) with a vial in each - no starter:

Recipe: Quince Wheat 2013
Brewer: Mr No Tip
Style: Weizen/Weissbier
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 40.03 l
Post Boil Volume: 33.28 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 28.00 l 
Bottling Volume: 27.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.046 SG
Estimated Color: 6.2 EBC
Estimated IBU: 11.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 85.7 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
4.00 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 - 
2.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent 2 - 
2.60 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (3.5 Grain 3 47.2 % 
2.30 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) ( Grain 4 41.8 % 
0.40 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 5 7.3 % 
0.20 kg Carapils (Briess) (3.0 EBC) Grain 6 3.6 % 
25.00 g Tettnang [4.50 %] - First Wort 90.0 min Hop 7 11.8 IBUs 
2.2 pkg Hefeweizen Ale (White Labs #WLP300) [35. Yeast 8 - 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Full Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 5.50 kg
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Name Description Step Temperat Step Time 
Mash in Heat to 38.0 C over 4 min 38.0 C 0 min 
Ferulic Acid Rest Heat to 45.0 C over 2 min 45.0 C 40 min 
Protein Rest Heat to 52.0 C over 7 min 52.0 C 20 min 
Beta Rest Heat to 63.0 C over 11 min 63.0 C 80 min 
Alpha Rest Heat to 71.0 C over 8 min 71.0 C 15 min 
Mash Out Heat to 77.0 C over 6 min 77.0 C 10 min 

Sparge: Fly sparge with 45.53 l water at 75.6 C
------


Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
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## Kiwifirst (28/12/13)

I hadn't heard of the 30 rule, so that was interesting reading. With this brew I pitched at about 20c and the first 2 days were fermenting at 24c. 
So by pitching at much lower than the 'suggested' temp range of the yeast you are effectively under pitching because the yeast will be slower to get started and multiply, as opposed the riot party I created pitching at 20c? DO I have that right.

If I wanted to experiment with a Ferulic rest and I mash in a Esky, could I perhaps do the first mash with say 2L per KG at 45c for say 30mins then add another 1L per KG to bring it up to 65C for a further 30mins?


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## manticle (28/12/13)

Hot water infusion is one mthod of step mashing and what you suggest will work.


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## slcmorro (28/12/13)

Get some busty frauleins around, and then it won't matter a shit what the beer tastes like


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## verysupple (28/12/13)

You seem to be happy with the balance but just want more. Owen Lingley from Wyeast basically says that the pitching rate generally determines *what* esters you get and the temp generally determines *how much* ester sythesis occurs. 

Give it a listen and make your own educated-ish decision about what you want to try next time in terms of pitching rates and ferment temps. to get your desired end-point.

The bit you're probably interested in is about 16:00 in the video.

NB. He seems to be only referring to ester (banana) production. It seems from what I've read that with this yeast the ballance is manipulated by changing the ester production. The phenolics (clove) are either overshadowed by the esters or are allowed to dominate by suppressing the esters.


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## beerbog (28/12/13)

Try Wy 3068 @ 17 deg. A nice bananery flavour. :icon_drool2:


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## Mardoo (28/12/13)

Awesome thread and links guys. Thx!


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## Kiwifirst (28/12/13)

Thanks BeerGod I'll watch that today. I am also definitely going to try the 3068 as well. AS soon as I buy a new brewing fridge.


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## manticle (28/12/13)

The yeast you mention in the recipe is 3068.


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## NewtownClown (28/12/13)

Gibbo1 said:


> Try Wy 3068 @ 17 deg. A nice bananery flavour. :icon_drool2:


 Absolutely! I use to screw around with low to mid 20's then heard Jamil in a podcast recommend 17c and have never looked back


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## Kiwifirst (28/12/13)

manticle said:


> The yeast you mention in the recipe is 3068.


Yes, I meant, I want to try 3068 at a lower temp when I get a new fridge.


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## manticle (28/12/13)

Ok. 17 is definitely my preference for that yeast.


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## Mr. No-Tip (28/12/13)

Kiwifirst said:


> I hadn't heard of the 30 rule, so that was interesting reading. With this brew I pitched at about 20c and the first 2 days were fermenting at 24c.
> So by pitching at much lower than the 'suggested' temp range of the yeast you are effectively under pitching because the yeast will be slower to get started and multiply, as opposed the riot party I created pitching at 20c? DO I have that right.
> 
> If I wanted to experiment with a Ferulic rest and I mash in a Esky, could I perhaps do the first mash with say 2L per KG at 45c for say 30mins then add another 1L per KG to bring it up to 65C for a further 30mins?


I don't profess to fully undestand it, but I think the pitch cold idea is about stressing the yeast...they aren't totally dormant at that temp, just not happy enough to go on an orgy of fermentation.

The mashing you describe is a done thing - infusion mashing. I've only ever 1V brewed (BIAB and BM) so I don't know 3v too well, but how much harder would it be to draw some wort off and heat that (decoction), rather than adding more water?


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## Kiwifirst (28/12/13)

_but how much harder would it be to draw some wort off and heat that (decoction), rather than adding more water?_

Yes, i could do that. I would imagine it would be harder as you'd have to run off 'x' amount then heat that to 'y' so when added back to the mash it increased to 'z'.

So lets say I had 15L of water in 5kg of grain sitting at 42c. What is X and Y to get to 65C as Z?


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## jacknohe (29/12/13)

Well its good to see others on the Hefe trail. I've just recently made two. A bit of a learning curve. Went with a 50% Pils, 50% Pale wheat as my grist. Single infusion only with a mash out.

First brew used yeast 3333 (German Wheat) at 17c. This yeast is actually ok. Its very toned down on that clovey flavour so if thats anyone's preference its pretty good. More close to some of the commercial Hefes I'm finding on tap. I found my efficiency dropped off (I use BIAB) from 75% to 65% due to the amount of wheat used and I ended up with a 3.9% alc beer which was actually ok. 

Second brew I accounted for the efficiency loss and then used 3068 at 17c. Yep, bang on. I got a German guy I know to give it the taste test. He travels to Frankfurt often and reckoned it was as good as any you'd get on tap there.

So I'm gonna stick with my approach but see what happens when I lower the IBUs to 11 to see what happens. Next Hefe:

50% Pils, 50% Pale wheat. Mash @ 68c.
OG:1.047, FG: 1.012,
Wai-iti 3.4%AA, 24g @ 50mins (IBU: 11)
(using Wai-iti hops same as Illawarra Brewing Co)
5.0% alc.
WY3068 @ 17c


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## Kiwifirst (29/12/13)

I have a friend from Cologne coming round tomorrow to try my Kolsch. (nervous about that, telling someone from Cologne you've made Kolsch is some what daunting). Anyway, he also judge my very fresh (read 3 days in the keg) Hefe.

Our recipes were similar, I think mine was 1.051 to 1.014

I just poured a glass of the new stuff and whilst it needs more carbonation it is pretty easy to drink. I find it a little under powered in both banana and clove, its like a mild version of a big Hefe. I dunno, maybe I was just spoilt drinking freshly brewed Hefes in Bavarian country towns.

I am definitely keen to brew more of this beer though. It is a great challenge and I can see the potential to create a wonderful fresh brew. 

Thanks for keeping the thread going, it is good to chat with others on making these. 

Cheers


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## Dan Pratt (30/12/13)

I really enjoy a wheat beer and often add wheat to the grist of my APA and IPA's. This year i have made 5 Witbiers and 1 Dunkelwezien and all with great results so Im about to embark into the Hefe and that start today.

My 3333 starter failed so Im going to use the only available wheat yeast I can get today WB06 B) I plan to pitch direct into the wort at 17c( which goes against my current yeast management methods - such as using liquid starters or at least re-hydrating) From what I have read this will create a nice bananna flavour as the yeast is somewhat stressed ( normally bananna comes from correct pitch levels and fermet at 24c ) Only one way to find out.

Here is the recipe;

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size (fermenter): 21.00 l 
Estimated OG: 1.045 SG
Estimated Color: 6 EBC
Estimated IBU: 12 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 85.7 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
2.10 kg Floor Malted Bohemian Pilsner (4.0 EBC) Grain 1 50.0 % 
2.10 kg Weyerman Wheat Pale (GER) (4.0 EBC) Grain 2 50.0 % 

22.00 g Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [5.10 %] - Boil Hop 3 11.9 IBUs 

1.0 pkg Safbrew Wheat (DCL/Fermentis #WB-06) [50 Yeast 4 


Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 2 Step, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 4.20 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time 
Mash In Add 29.00 l of water at 19.9 C 20.0 C 0 min 
Alpha Rest Heat to 43.0 C over 20 min 43.0 C 20 min 
Saccharification Heat to 66.0 C over 15 min 66.0 C 75 min 
Mash Out Heat to 78.0 C over 10 min 78.0 C 30 min 

Sparge: Fly sparge with 4.17 l water at 75.6 C

Ferement at 17c


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## Kiwifirst (30/12/13)

_which goes against my current yeast management methods_

I think this typifies what I enjoyed about making this beer. The unkown. I always have a fair idea of what I am going to get when I brew because I am mostly using a Safale 05, some pale and an american citrus hop. Even when I change beer style with the Kolsch I kind of knew what I was going to get. However, it looks to me that i'll be having lots of fun experimenting with the yeasts and developing a different beer each time.


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## sav (30/12/13)

I have brewed a lot of hefes and tried a lot of different changes to my recipes to get the perfect balance 
I like a lot of banana in my hefe but it shouldn't be cloying.
I have under pitched, over pitched, tried temp changes, protein rest sacc rests multi step mashes.
My best results are by stressing the yeast to get the flavour i am after. I use 3068 and only pitch one smack pac to 42 lts,I find under pitching gives me the profile I love.
I normally mash at 66 and ferment at 19deg with single infusion mash.
I am not saying it is what you should do but it is what works for me.

Happy brewing sav


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## Kiwifirst (30/12/13)

Thanks Sav, that is interesting as you are using one smack pack to 42 L. Where as I am using one smack pack for 21L and it was at 24c. So no wonder it brewed quickly.
I wonder then, if that is over pitching? I can't for the life of me work out the pitching rates.

I bet if I ran the 1 pack on 21L at 17c it would be a completely different beer. Not that I am unhappy with my first attempt.


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## JDW81 (30/12/13)

Kiwifirst said:


> _but how much harder would it be to draw some wort off and heat that (decoction), rather than adding more water?_
> 
> Yes, i could do that. I would imagine it would be harder as you'd have to run off 'x' amount then heat that to 'y' so when added back to the mash it increased to 'z'.
> 
> So lets say I had 15L of water in 5kg of grain sitting at 42c. What is X and Y to get to 65C as Z?


Not really harder, just more fiddley. If I decoct, which I often do with hefes (and no, I'm not interested in getting into a debate about the merits or otherwise of decoction). I pull off a thick 1/3 of the mash and boil. I then add it back in slowly, stirring constantly, thermometer at the ready until I get to the temp I desire. If I hit my temp before I add all the decoction back in (which is usually the case) I leave the remainder in my pot and use it to form part of the next decoction. Easy as.

JD


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## Kiwifirst (30/12/13)

_to form part of the next decoction._

So you have two rests then? sit at say 20 for x time, pull a third out heat and add back to say 42c then keep the rest until Y time and add the balance to take it to say 65c?


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## jyo (30/12/13)

The last couple of hefes I have made I have included an addition of melanoidin at just under 2%. It helps to give the decoction flavour without the extra work, which I think my previous hefes were missing. I used to brew with 60/40 wheat/barley, but the last ones with 50/50 have been better.

+1 on the comments for running these yeasts at 17' (including WB06- it makes a good hefe when run at 17') for balance of clove and banana.


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## JDW81 (30/12/13)

Kiwifirst said:


> _to form part of the next decoction._
> 
> So you have two rests then? sit at say 20 for x time, pull a third out heat and add back to say 42c then keep the rest until Y time and add the balance to take it to say 65c?


Depends, you can do a single, double or triple. I tend to follow the Hochkurz decoction, but have a read of this page to give you some more information. The graphs are a really good summary and give you an indication of temperature and time.

JD


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## Weizguy (30/12/13)

my 2 cents... I have been known to brew a few weizens, and my last keg went to the BItter and Twisted festival for the Hunter United Brewers club stand. It was well received, and the first keg to run dry on a warm Summer day.

I like the Wyeast W3638, but also had success and fun with W3068 and W3056.

I generally use a 60/40 wheat/barley grist (basic weizen, or sometimes add Munich/Vienna or Caramunich for complexity) and about 14 IBU of German noble hops, and a multi-step infusion mash, with a rest at 38°C to create some ferulic acid, a short rest at 52°C (IIRC) to break down the excess protein, and a final sacc. rest at 63°C, with a 76°C mash-out.
Ferment around 17-20°C and allow plenty of headspace (at least 30%).

The recipe I use for a Schneider-weisse style beer is in the recipe section and seems to be well-regarded by those of superior taste. lol

I believe the use of dextrose was mentioned as being particularly useful as a precursor for isoamyl acetate (banana character). Not sure of the link, but it's in AHB.


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## beerbog (30/12/13)

Les the Weizguy said:


> allow plenty of headspace (at least 30%).


You're not wrong there, that's for sure.............. B)


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## Kiwifirst (30/12/13)

Thanks for that link JD. Very interesting. I will think about running a single decoction on the next hefe based on that.


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## Kiwifirst (4/1/14)

Thanks for all the input everyone. I enjoyed the discussion and hope to brew a better Hefe next time round. Thought I'd send you an update with the current batch being in keg for 2 weeks. Lovely colour, big creamy head and a perfect mix of banana and clove. Certainly not overpowering. I would consider this ideal for someone who hasn't tried Hefe's before or someone who has had bad experiences trying over powered bottle Hefe. Now just need my German friend to come round and try it to get a second opinion.

Things to improve on, slightly more banana, the opposite of what i was expecting and more body, it is slightly too thin. Currently drinking it at 8-9c which seems about right. 

I was trying to add photo to this comment, but it was saying that jpeg wasn't an extension that was allowed?

Cheers everyone.


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## carniebrew (4/1/14)

Without reading this entire thread (sorry if someone's called it out already), I highly recommend you under-pitch your yeast, 75% or less, and ferment at 17C. It makes for a fantastic hefe, almost identical to the commercial versions.


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## Kiwifirst (4/1/14)

Yep been lots of talk about 17c and i think that I'll run a decoction rest on the next one to try and get some body..\


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## Dan Pratt (10/1/14)

I listed my recipe on page 2 of this thread....grain to glass in 7days. Bloody tasty wheat beer.


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## Kiwifirst (10/1/14)

Nice looking. I am enjoying mine as well. Needs a bit more body, but happy with the flavour. Tried to upload an image but it said it wouldn't accept a the jpeg format? Are you supposed to load to a gallery here first?


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## Dan Pratt (10/1/14)

When I make my next one, Im sure to add 2% melanoiden malt to increase the body of the beer.

Also I willl be using th Mangrove Jacks M20 Bavarian Yeast strain to see how that goes as I collected one of these when i picked up the WB06, hope it ferments the same.


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## Dan Pratt (10/1/14)

Kiwifirst said:


> Nice looking. I am enjoying mine as well. Needs a bit more body, but happy with the flavour. Tried to upload an image but it said it wouldn't accept a the jpeg format? Are you supposed to load to a gallery here first?


nope just make sure its smaller than 2Mb


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## Ditchnbeer (11/1/14)

I am really interested in making a great AG hefe and after much research I can suggest:
- adding a ferulic acid rest to yr mash schedule 43-45 degrees
- pitching at 17 
After that its fiddling with small amounts of speciality grains to go with the pilsner & wheat malts, and different yeasts to build up on what you have created so far.


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## Kiwifirst (11/1/14)

Pretty happy with this 

Found out what i was doing wrong with the image. i was shortening the url link and it drops the .jpg which caused the site to not accept the extension (which there wasn't one on the shorten).


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## Ditchnbeer (12/1/14)

nice one Kiwifirst...funny thing is that I have very similar photos of my brews


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## Sprungmonkey (13/1/14)

quick question - I have never brewed a ag Hef but want to. Is there any reason why people use pilsner malt and not pale malt with the wheat? I currently have quite a bit of pale and was hoping to use some up making hef's


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## carniebrew (13/1/14)

It'll make little difference, the Pilsner malt is mainly to keep the end colour light, as a hefe normally is. Go ahead and make it with your pale malt, especially if you're doing something like 60% wheat/40% pale. Keep in mind too most extract brewers use light DME/LME to make a hefe, rather than pilsner/extra light.


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## Sprungmonkey (17/1/14)

Cheers carnie brew


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## Kiwifirst (17/4/14)

Just thought I'd finish this thread with my tasting thoughts. 

Backstory: never like Hefe or wheat beer in general. Went to Germany and had a very fresh Hefe and loved it. Realised totally different from bottled stuff.
Made my own, see above and drank it.

Result: the first three to four weeks worth were delicious and every thing I hoped for in my first Hefe attempt. After 4 weeks it started to go somewhat like bottled stuff, by the end of the keg I couldn't wait for it to end.

So, I either need to:

A: have more friends help with drinking the keg

B: drink more myself during that first four weeks

C: make less

But one thing is certain, a fresh Hefe is way better than a aged one.


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