# Grape tannin vs tannic acid. Are they different?



## philmud (7/2/15)

I'm making the fall spiced metheglin from here: http://byo.com/european-pale-lager/item/1081-make-a-spiced-metheglin3

The recipe calls for grape tannin, but my LHBS only sells tannic acid. Are they one and the same? 
I'm also open to just using black tea if the difference is negligible.


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## TimT (7/2/15)

It's got the allspice in it too which will give tannins. Doesn't seem really necessary to add tannin powder.

Looks like the two powders are not really the same thing anyway. One tanniny alternative to grapes that are ripe at the moment and fairly readily available are berries - you should have tonnes of blackberries round your part, though you may want to check for signs of poisoning. Just made a berry melomel myself yesterday


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## TimT (7/2/15)

Basically there's a crapload of tannins and sorting each one out from the other would be a Sisyphean task.


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## HBHB (7/2/15)

The one they would have referred to was called a Onelab G skin tannin. Unfortunately, they're no longer imported.....sucks, because they brought nice ripe berry notes and improved depth of flavour really well in Metheglins and stabilised the colour as well.

The closest thing to it these days would be Onelab AQ.


The most common stock tannin is derived from chestnuts. It's not bad, but doesn't add the depth of flavour the other one does and neither hold a candle to what the G skin one did.

For a point of difference, if you just want tannin, try a couple of pot strength tea bags steeped overnight. into 250ml and add it in next day...it's interesting in a subtle flavoured metheglin


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## philmud (7/2/15)

I actually grabbed some of the tannic acid. Geoff from G&G said its the same thing, though not sure if that was "it's identical" or "it'll do the trick".
Tim, I think you're right. The recipe seems like there's plenty of options to use ingredients rather than "additives". Eg. Lemon juice instead of acid blend, tea or fruit in place of tannin.
This time I'm pretty keen to follow the recipe to the letter & the I have a reference point to experiment.


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## TimT (8/2/15)

At a guess, grape tannin would probably be more complex than tannic acid. Similar basic effect - a certain dry astringency in the mead - though some subtlety of flavour, I presume, woud be lost.

Grape mead - pyment - and spiced grape mead - hippocrene - is a thing of wonder, and I would like to explore it some more. I've tasted two, one of my own and another from an experienced amateur winemaker - and the grapes and honey together have a special sweetness and light that both would not really have on their own.

_O for a draught of vintage! that hath been_
_Cool'd a long age in the deep-delvèd earth,_
_Tasting of Flora and the country-green,_
_Dance, and Provençal song, and sunburnt mirth!_
_O for a beaker full of the warm South!_
_Full of the true, the blushful Hippocrene,_
_With beaded bubbles winking at the brim,_
_And purple-stainèd mouth;_
_That I might drink, and leave the world unseen,_
_And with thee fade away into the forest dim..._

(John Keats - _Ode to a Nightingale_)


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## Mardoo (8/2/15)

Most commercial supermarket grapes are bred for shelf life, which in the case of grapes means tannins and firm flesh. Go to Woolies and taste each of the grapes on offer. Add a given amount of the most tannic. If you aren't sure what tannin tastes like, it she grapes that most set your teeth on edge.


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## philmud (8/2/15)

Not that it necessarily means anything, but the tannic acid was a dark red/brown in colour (& the package indicated it was red tannic acid). I'm thinking it may be extracted/made from grapes. Anyway, it's in the must now.

Tim, what kind of grape did you use in the hippocrene (auto-correct wanted me to say "hippo teen")?


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## TimT (9/2/15)

These guys were selling them by the roadside in Preston! They had bees all over them. A dark grape (though it gave a very pale coloured juice) that was apparently also used for sherry making.


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