# ESB with Lyles black treacle?



## Stouter (23/5/17)

As a variation to my latest ESB which turned out reasonably ok, I thought to try subbing the 4% of CaraAroma I used in the same recipe for a tin or so of Lyles. 
Does this sound silly?
Should I go 50/50 on this and the Cara?
Does my head look big in this hat?

21L batch
4.5kg Maris Otter
0.5kg Munich
0.2kg CaraAroma
0.05 Chocolate malt

30g EKG @60min
25g Fuggles @60min

Wyeast London ESB 1968


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## Adr_0 (23/5/17)

Incidentally I've used Lyles golden syrup a bit in bitters/ESB's and also Belgians, though not in the last few years - just forgot, to be honest. It goes fairly well.

Cara-aroma is a great malt and probably shares some of the burnt fruits that treacle has. Might as well try it, though do 100% treacle rather than splitting with cara-aroma...

...assuming 'ok' is good enough for your previous go? I could make a few suggestions but it would be changing too many things at once.


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## Stouter (23/5/17)

No,


Adr_0 said:


> ...assuming 'ok' is good enough for your previous go? I could make a few suggestions but it would be changing too many things at once.


No, please be honest, suggestions more than welcome.


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## Adr_0 (23/5/17)

Stouter said:


> No,
> No, please be honest, suggestions more than welcome.


I think roast barley is a far better choice than chocolate as the small amount used (1.5% or less) contributes burnt sugar notes if anything, rather than dry coffee that the chocolate will probably give.

The recipe as it is probably has a bit too much of a 'gap' between the base and the very dark cara-aroma/chocolate.

10% light Munich, if you're looking for more bready sweetness, is probably better being Weyermann Munich II. 10-15% would be fine.

Alternatively you could use a nice light crystal such as Thomas Fawcett's pale crystal which really complements the Maris Otter. It's very pleasant and very nicely fills in on top of the MO base. Maybe 7-10%.


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## Stouter (23/5/17)

I see now what you mean with "too much gap". I've got roasted barley on hand so my next step will be to get the Munich II and have a play with them.
This might need to be a regular which I continually tweak to compare as I enjoy this style.
I'll give the Lyle's sub a go first to see where that lands me and work from there.
Thanks!


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## captain crumpet (23/5/17)

If you can find it Muscovado works very well in this style. 
What is the mash temp?


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## Stouter (23/5/17)

Mashed at 67.


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## Cervantes (24/5/17)

Golden Syrup is used in a lot of Graham Wheeler's real ale clone recipes. I've used it with success in Porters. I don't see why Lyle's wouldn't work.


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