# All grain 3V electric system



## TheWiggman

Well, I've done it - after months of stewing and thinking I've bought all the gear to run an all grain brewing system (much to my wife's dissatisfaction). I paid more for her mixer than what I've committed to this and we'll both be using our respective systems for many years to come, so I'm convinced it's worth it.

Story is: I got donated 2 kegs from a mate I did a job for and one of them was bent. I couldn't re-shape the lid to fit so it was throw it out or do something with it. I haven't seen anyone do this before, but I decided to convert it to a hot liquor tun with a heating element running up the middle of it. These dodgy pics have been flooding the forum front page but the concept's fairly simple -





A copper coil will run through it as pictured below. It does fit in, but it's a damn tight fit and will be the 2nd last thing to go it.





You may be wondering about how the HLT will stand with the element in it. Why, with this shitty stand I knocked up one evening in the shed. It'll look tidier in time, but it's square and sturdy (but not waterproof).





I've ordered a thermowell and tee piece to feed over to the mash tun, which will be a 38 litre stainless pot which I picked up for a bargain $69 on eBay. Now going for $79, which is still a steal.





I got donated a keg from another mate who said it was "taking up space", so I did him a big favour and took it off his hands. I cut a hole in it using a compass and grinder, and it came up a treat. Shown below is the rough cut -





I have 2 PID controllers (Jap Shinko units, very tidy which I scored from an old job) with only one rigged up to work. I bought a waterproof RTD off eBay and will install a switch on the PID to change between sensors on the fly. To save on cash in the short term, I'll pop it from one vessel to the other depending on where I am in the process. The inline thermocouple from the heat exchanger will always be installed.

So other points of note are -

2200 W Keg King element in the HLT
3600 W element from Gryphon in the boiler
Little brown pump for circulation which I got from Craftbrewer. Other places sell them and I'd just like to say it is an absolute winner for the price. Used in in a BIAB setup for a mate and it got 4 thumbs up.
No brass fittings, only stainless.
Camlocks for hose lines
Designed so I can pick up the whole system and move it. Not looking into stands at this stage.

It's going to be a dirty looking system to start with but I'm confident it'll make good beer and last me 'til the kids leave home and I decide to get serious with it. First brew is going to be a weissbier (from Greg Hughe's Home Brew Beer book - recommended) for a mate I'm trying to convert to all grain. Never done wheat before, hopefully it'll turn out alright.

I'm all ears so if anyone's got some suggestions by all means shout. A lot of the design of this system is based on advice from this here forum, so if you want to feel good about yourself assume I read one of your comments and pat yourself on the back.

(note - tell me how to post without filling the entire page with oversize pics)


----------



## macca05

Hey mate. Welcome to ag brewing. Im new myself and am loving it. Cant stop spending money on new stuff even though im not getting a chance to brew. 
Couple of things to ask you. Your using a 3600w element which pulls about 15a on its own. Do u have a 15a circuit in your shed or is it common house 10a. If ever you wanted to run both of those elements at once, which u will one day you could be drawing 20-25a. Just something to think about. Ive just ffinisheda 2 pid controller box. When I get home today ill add pictures to my thread and send u a link. Was actually quite easy to build.
Im hoping I can get a brew on this weekend to test it all out 
Enjoy


----------



## TheWiggman

Cheers Macca.
Yep, I have a 15A circuit in the shed. I saw your pics and the wiring looks very neat. Mine's not so neat but I've been careful with the earthing so I'm confident it's safe. Either you're an electrician, you know an electrician, or you're very handy with your wiring.
I don't intend to use 2 elements at the same time because I'll be using the HLT for sparging, and once that starts - because the element is vertical - I'll need to have it off so the element won't run dry. Once day when I upgrade this may be more of an issue, but that's no concern really because I have the two circuits in the shed. A typical house power loop can handle more than 25A anyway (mine can at least) but I don't want to elaborate in case any electricians read this.

My PID unit is shown below which I originally had as a hot / cold setup with two PIDs. It's a heating PID but the wiring can be configured to cool. Or so I thought. The result was a fridge that turned on and off every 10 odd seconds so I removed that very quickly and hence have two clean cuts which I'd milled out at an old job.
I covered up the open hole tonight and added a switch. The intention is to have two RTDs/thermocouples fed to the control box so I can run the RIMS-style system and use a second probe for different purposes. For instance, heating the HLT in preparation for mashing. Until I save up a bit more dosh I bought a dip-in waterproof RTD off eBay for a cool $16. I'll pull this from the HLT to the boiler depending where I'm at.





In case you're wonder, the DC source for the solid state relay are the internals from a Nokia phone charger.





I'm itching for all my fancy stainless steel to arrive this week. Next weekend I should lose my all grain brewing virginity and give what will be a staple part of my life its first run.
I also have to mount my pump on a mini skid to make it ready for action.

How do I make my pics smaller?!


----------



## Doubleplugga

Windows paint or photoshop mate, but there are quite a few programs around. If you open them in paint you can reduce the size quite easily and quickly


----------



## macca05

Here is a link to my thread where Maltyhops explained how to make the small pictures work. You just need to upload your images to your gallery first.
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/75136-my-all-grain-brew-rigsystem/?p=1087777

Haha, im not an electrician, but from looking at everyone elses control boxes I couldnt make a mess and post it here. And it actually makes it easy to trace any faults if you have any. Its actually not cheap either. That control box has cost me somewhere between 400-500. Probably closer to 500 now. Im waiting on switches from auberins as im not a fan of the jaycar ones I have. I had one of the rocker parts pop out on me the other day. 
I like the clear perspex you put over the hole. You can keep an eye on the SSR. I have been thinking of a way to do that without having to open the lid all the time. My box was not designed as a hinged door. I just made it that way.
You must be pretty cluey yourself if you know that you could use a nokia part in there 
If you dont have any grab some STC 1000 controllers for your fridges etc. They are great. I have 2 wired up and 2 still in the box incase I want to control something else 

Macca


----------



## 431neb

Great post wiggman. I export my pics from iPhoto to a folder on my desktop. When I do it asks me what size and quality. I then upload the exported pics. Your photo software might be different but that's how I do it.

I hope to electrify my system some day too but I don't think I have the patience for the wiring and the PIDs.

Good job and enjoy!

PS maybe make your first brew extremely simple. All sorts of shit will go wrong on your first brew. You will make beer but there might be some bad language along the way.


----------



## TheWiggman

Quick update - got most of my shiny parts but waiting on one more package before true assembly can start. I've already chopped up the boiler and installed the heating element and valves/fittings, was a peice of piss. Postage delay I think is due to Sydney fires. 
PID completed and working. Thinking about upgrading the wiring though to make it more 15A suitable. The clear acrylic is actually a happy coincidence. 
$500 for just the control box? Yikes. I've estimated my while setup will be in the realm of $700. For the fridge I have a wall plugin temp controller, super cheapo eBay stylez. It was about $27 delivered and is right to go out of the box. Not perfect, but hasn't missed a beat. The deprecate control unit is so etching I'll probably put together when I can get hold of a cheap/free fermentation fridge. 

First brew is actually a recipe I put together from a loose grain bill given to me from a Pom for his favourite beer back home. 3 grains, 2 hops and a yeast starter. Dry hopped too. From something I knocked up. Bold stuff but nothing ventured, nothing gained.


----------



## spudfarmerboy

Wiggman,
Just something to look out for.
In your pictures it looks like you're using a type K thermocouple. When using thermocouples you need to use the same material in the wire, that is, from the thermocouple junction to where it connects to the controller, needs to be made of the same material. In your case, type K is Chromal/Alumel. You have used a mic plug or some such connecter that will be made from copper. This introduces a different material and another "cold junction". You need to use a Type K connecter, they are available from Ebay and are usually yellow in colour. Introducing different metals into the thermocouple wiring can result in some unusual temperature readings.
The other thing is, PT100 (RTD) are much better at brewing temperatures than thermocouples and don't require special connectors.


----------



## TheWiggman

Good to know spud farmer, much appreciated. I have an RTD in the post which is waterproof and will be transferred between vessels for off the cuff measurements. I'll cross check this with the thermocouple in the meantime until I get something more reliable. The thermocouple came with the controllers so that's why I have it. I have a hole at the bottom of the box so I can easily re wire this in the meantime if the measurements are inaccurate. Will get another RTD at a later date. 

Apologies about crazy English in the last post, phone autocorrect had a field day.


----------



## Engibeer

Did Wridgways bend it? They always seem to damage everything! :drinks:


----------



## TheWiggman

The system's all together and is basically ready for brewing. I'll have to wait for next weekend for the first official brew, which means this is going to be a long week.

Mash tun is below, showing sparge line from Gryphon Brewing with a simple teed connection. Had anyone had experience with these before? They look like a perfectly viable and more economical solution to a false bottom. It obviously won't drain every last drop but I can't see that being a problem anyway. A 90° bend will be installed on the 'in' port to avoid compaction.





Here's the whole thing. Pretty simple really.





Here's the balls of the system, the RIMS Cornelius keg. It has 3m of copper wound about internally connected to 2 compression fittings. I can't get a decent photo due to the poor light. I've had this pumping away for a while now and it seems to do a pretty good job. The simple thermowell off the tee is nothing new and functions without a hitch.





Here's the boiler. 3600W element and a sight glass I got from iBrew. I've gotta say, the seal on it's terrible and it's the only part on the system which leaks. I've had 3 goes at trying to seal it and I can tell where water's getting through. I need to either use a putty or made up a silicone washer to fit up on the outside. Due to the leak I haven't been able to give it a run yet.





The boiler internals. Has a compression fitting ready to go, but I don't have any tube yet. I'll buy some this week. I also plan to put a 90° elbow on this as well and create a whirlpool during the cooling phase (which I'll run back through the RIMS while running cold water through it). The beefy 3600W element should shorten brew time.





The recirculating pump. Simple and cheap brown pump from Craft Brewer. I put this on a piece of scrap pine lying around, found a 12V adapter in a box somewhere, and created the little jiffy box and switch from some gear from Jaycar. All up this pump is ready for action - including fittings - for around $50. Bargain.





I've been cleaning everything and trialling how effectively it all works and it works an absolute treat. 19l takes about 45 mins to heat up to 71°C from 10°C using the RIMS system. This is fine for my needs. The PID controller also seems to avoid overshoot and hence takes a while to get close but doesn't exceed the set temp. spudfarmerboy was right about the connectors I've used - it made a difference of about ­10°C.

Well, that's it from me. I'll be waiting anxiously for the weekend to brew up a storm, and will let you know how I go. Any questions or advice - fire away.


----------



## TheWiggman

Some pics of the first brew run. Here's the setup as it'll be in the shed. One day I'll make a stand or similar but this does the job.







Here's the flavoursome mash midway -






And boiling away in the converted keg -






I did a St. Austell Hick's Special Draught recipe for a bloke who sourced the basic grain bill for me. I did a 3 step mash (50°C 30 min > 67°C 54 min > 76°C 10 min) based on the output from BeerSmith and the PID system did not miss a beat. There are a few comments to note though -

The braided sparge hose from Gryphon 'stuck' to begin with and didn't pump about a minute after adding grain while stirring. I gradually added the rest and gave the base a good stir because it seemed compacted. After a while it started flowing but I'm concerned that with a larger grain bill this may cause problems. That said, once it flowed there were zero problems for the rest of the brew and it barely required any cleaning.
I ran out of water during the sparge (19l) but I think this is due to my own miscalculations on volumes. More on that in a minute. I got some hot water from the house for the remainder, which was SFA so I'm not concerned. I now wish I had a bigger pot for the HLT rather than the keg, but oh well. I can get around it by adding more to the mash next time, which shouldn't have a huge impact on recipes.
The 3600W element brought the liquor to the boil rapidly (10 min?) but was boiling quite hard. There's no real way around it except for a controller. I'm hoping this won't affect flavour but I'll need to think about volumes in the future.
I calculated my final volume to be 23l. Mistake. This resulted in only about 18.5l making it to the fermenter due to traub loss and dicking around from the...
Hops stuck in the pump. I didn't use a hop bag or blocker, hoping it would settle with the whirlfloc. Wrong. To cool the liquor I wanted to pump it back through the heat exchanger with cold water, but about 10 secs into it it was clear there was a blockage. First up it was in the copper, which I blew out. Secondly the pump stop working and in my frustration I assumed it was because it died. I put it aside and transferred everything straight to the fermenter.
I measured the SG and it was massive. 1.058. Target with 70% efficiency (as per the grain bill) was 1.049. I added cold water straight to the fermenter to top it up to 23l. I figure water added before or after the boil is still water added and shouldn't affect flavour. The OG is 1.052ish so obviously the process was more efficient that BeerSmith defaults to. I'm good with that, my mate will be happy it's a bit more alcoholic than expected.
Overall the above issues aren't bad at all. The process was essentially seamless until the very end so I'm stoked with how it performed. This HSD recipe smells damn good too. I reused some 1048 yeast from my previous brew in a starter and it started well. It's my first go at it so can't complain. It's already got some krausen happening so it looks the goods.

Seriously this has to be the best hobby out. I can't wait for next weekend when I do my second batch, a wiessebier. And after sampling the first of my all grain brown porter last night, it's pretty obvious all grain opens the door to endless quality beers.
As always, feedback more than welcome.


----------



## MastersBrewery

you may find it helpful to mash in and let it rest to allow grain to absorb water, before starting recirc obviously prime pumps prior to adding grain


----------



## djar007

Why are you mashing so long and low at fifty. I thought a better rest was fifty five for ten then up through sixty three and then sixty seven. What are you looking for at fifty?


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

The braid will also hold air as the threads are very fine, best bet is to push your strike into the tun via the braid line to remove air.
As mentioned add your grain, stir and let settle before starting the pump, then go slow until after a protein rest (if used), tends to stick less.
How did the 3.6Kw element fitting and performance go ?
Nev


----------



## TheWiggman

Re: pump/stuck mash. To heat the mash tun water up I -

1. Fill MT slightly above required volume.
2. Fill HLT to full.
3. Prime, turn on pump then turn on PID system. The control does its work and in 30-45 mins the HLT is where it should be. Not sure if this is what most others do but it's simple and no fuss.

Hence the recirc is running before and during mash in. I'll have it off and let the grain absorb for a few minutes next time. Easy stuff which I'm sure will work. Like I said either way once it started to flow there were no problems.

Re: 50°C for 30 mins - this is what BeerSmith spat out in the 3 stage profile I selected. Not sure specifically why this is but I went with it. From what I've seen for the acid rest is around the 35-40°C mark and in most cases not necessary. I don't have my water profile nor a pH tester, so this step is probably completely unnecessary anyway. Again, this is brew #1 for me and I mainly did it because I wanted to play with my fancy control gear ^_^

The 3600W element leaked on the first few fitments. It's fine now after I put the small O-ring on the inside > SS wall > silicone washer > jiffy box and did it up as much as I could with multigrips. Probably my biggest gripe was that you can barely get the tread started with what I had fitted, if it were a few mm longer it would be much easier to fit. As for performance - when it was on it was definitely on. It reached boil quickly but I'm thinking I should have gone for a less ballsy element. It would handle the full keg no worries I reckon. Are there any issues with a strong boil over a weaker one? Apart from evaporation rate of course.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

There was two silicon washers supplied ,one O ring and one flat ?
I might try two O rings if the thickness of the flat is too much , it will just give that bit extra thread ?
I prefer strong boil as I end up with more break in the kettle and less in the fermenter and wort appears clearer.
Acid rest , I wouldnt bother, try a combined protein/Glucan rest at 56c, it will make the mash less sticky.
Nev


----------



## TheWiggman

Good advice Nev, will take it on board.
Maybe see a customer try to assemble it or do it yourself to understand. I cut a neat hold to the right size, I think if a silicone O-ring was used instead there's a risk it could pinch or not seal well if the hole was slightly oversize. This is only a guess. There's also the chance I didn't do it up tightly enough with the first 2 goes but it was difficult without the correctly sized spanner.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Ok, I just need some thing to bore a hole into, could always use another HLT.
Nev


----------



## keifer33

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Ok, I just need some thing to bore a hole into, could always use another HLT.
> Nev


Free on Saturday morning Nev? You can use my HLT or Kettle as a tester as I need a 2400w element in each at some point.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

keifer33 said:


> Free on Saturday morning Nev? You can use my HLT or Kettle as a tester as I need a 2400w element in each at some point.


really need to test the 3.6 Kw element fitting. Got 15 Amp ?
Nev


----------



## keifer33

Nah don't currently.


----------



## TheWiggman

Did another brew today taking in the experience from the last brew and feedback from others. Was a wiessbier from my trusty Home Brew Beer book by Greg Hughes.

Problems with 'stuck mash' on mash-in: turned off pump and temp control during and about 5 mins after adding grain. Started up pump, no dramas at all.
High OG: added some extra volume to the recipe and hit OG easily with calculated volume. Before boil and after SG was as per recipe from BeerSmith. Boil volume was higher than expected without exceeding 1.015 during sparge.
Sparging: not good. 19l isn't enough for a wheat beer (14.5l of strike water, 36l for pre boil) and required me to stop halfway during sparge, refill the HLT and heat, then resume. This is something I can't get away from and will simply have to deal with until I buy a new pot.

Bought a refractometer and hopsock to address SG issues and pump blockages. Both problems solved. Would never want to do all grain again without a refractometer, and the hopsock made my previous problems laughable. I used the RIMS Cornelius as a cooler and it did a pretty awesome job.

Brown pump did get stuck just prior to sparging, wouldn't pump at all even though voltage measurements were implying it was drawing power. It turned out the stickiness of the mash prevented it from turning and it needed a physical push after opening it up to make things happen. I'm hoping this won't be an ongoing issue.

Tomorrow I'm doing a Coopers Sparkling Ale clone from AndrewQld using a Coopers yeast starter. Looking forward to it.


----------



## TheWiggman

My first saga with the new system.
Did mash as per instructions, in about 30 mins of sacc rest and the pump stopped. I didn't realise this because I was in the house doing other things. Temp of mash dropped to 60 by I got it going again. I tried about 3 times to get it going and had to choke the discharge slightly to keep the pump RPM up (it could be heard struggling). It wasn't enough flow to bring the temp back up and keep it there without making the HLT too hot, so I bit the bullet and sparged using a pot pouring it on top of the mash. Not ideal, but worked. I sparged and at 28l was on 1.033 in boiler - 1.040 desired. Runoff was still around 1.020, so I can only think the mash was no good. It got so low because with my frustrations with the pump I didn't check the SG and kept sparging between repair attempts.

I added an extra 10 mins to boil to increase the SG a bit. Added hops at 60 min mark.

While the boil was underway I investigated the pump. In the process of doing so I assumed the problem may have been with a blocked HEx coil so I threw some (~30ml) bleach into the HLT and let it recirc (bottom of HLT > pump > HEx > back into HLT top). I got it running, albeit at lower flow, so decided to leave it primed and run the HEx to cool down the wort. Once the boil was over, I pointed the outlet to the garden, waited until beer-coloured liquid came through, and coupled it back to the boiler.

I had forgotten I'd added the bleach.

My first taste test was pre-fermenter, and it had a really strange tang that lingered in the mouth. This was when I realised I hadn't flushed the copper with water after rinsing it with bleach. I tasted the bleached water in the HLT and to be honest it didn't have the same strange tang. But it is horrible nonetheless and I'm not sure if it's due to the flawed mash or because of the bleach contamination. After a lot of swearing and urge to launch the pump through the damned gates of Hell, which I'm hoping was over the neighbour's fence, I figured I might as well let it ferment and see if it's that bad once FG is hit.

Was it the low mash temps and short mash? Was it the bleach? Was it all the hops floating around that made it through the hop sock? In any case, I take back everything I said about these brown pumps and no longer recommend them for pumping sticky stuff. Next payday I think get one of these: http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=4270. As well as more ingredients for the Coopers Sparkling Ale clone dare I say.


----------



## MastersBrewery

sorry to hear your day went to crap, I have a similar pump to the one you linked (15 or so brews old), I use it for all my hot transfers, you will find it has a far greater flow, so remember to throttle it when recircing, I believe in the HERMS thread they recomend 4-6LPM
Good luck, and remember your just geting it dialed in ....... batch 50 will be just another brew day


----------



## TheWiggman

True MastersBrewery, I do like everything working but reality kicks me in the face every now and then. Serves me for not researching hard enough I suppose.

I sampled the fermenting Sparkling Ale clone and I can tell you that the bleach did not affect the brew at all. You couldn't taste it over the completely overpowering flavour of BURNT PLASTIC. Evidently the pump went down with the ship and must have melted a seal to cause the original failure. My hands stink like plastic after washing it out and everything - even the airlock, which did not touch the liquid - stinks of it. The aftertaste lingers for about 20 mins. I'm back to trusting bleach again and hoping it'll cure the fermenter, or it may be forever tainted.
I tipped it out on the lawn and the dog decided to have a taste. He wandered off making a horrific choking noise, which was well earnt.

The good folk at Craft Brewer honoured warranty on the pump. Cheers. When trying to remove the barbs both the suction and discharge snapped off, ruining the pump. Not only that but I spent an hour trying to take the thread out and simply can't on one of the barbs.

The pump kicks me in the nuts once more.

I've ordered their green pump (much to my wife's displeasure) which has received reasonable ratings here. Next weekend I'll be back into it because I'm starting to run the keg low.


----------



## TheWiggman

I thought it was supposed to get better the more you brew...

Yesterday I did a 150 lashes clone for a mate. Right off the bat in the morning, I turned on the system to warm it up and the circuit breaker tripped. After testing on a different circuit I eventually narrowed it down to the Keg King 2200 W element in the boiler. I was ropable.
I called my mate up no his way around and told him to drop in to get a $14 kettle. I dismantled it (after burring a screw head and drilling it out) only to find it wouldn't fit in the hole. After about an hour of frigging around we thought it worked because the element light came on. Success! Wrong! I noticed when I plugged it in the power was off - but the light was on. Baffled, I looked at my controller and noticed a very melty solid state coupling. Luckily I had another one in my MAME cabinet rated at 40A, so I scavenged this.

No change. No power, light on. I noticed that I had wired my A and N around the wrong way on the outlet plugs so corrected this, but it still didn't make sense. Did this, no change. I pulled the element out and wired it on the table, turned it on and it heated up straight away. I reasoned that the silicone washer was too thick because the hole was a different size to the kettle, so trimmed this down. Wound up the screws tightly and would you believe it - SUCCESS.
I for the life of me still can't work it out the light business, but I think it may have been some residual current from the SSR. Whatever, it goes.

Brew day was overall steady with the new pump. Some stuck mash issues because of a very fine grind from the local brewer, but no biggie. We tasted throughout the day and the plastic taste I mentioned above was absent.
Boil was a winner. Gravities and volumes checked out, so even though it was a late finish I was comfortable. My mate took off for dinner so I left the boiled wort in the keg and came back today to transfer it. 

Had a taste - BURNT PLASTIC. It was horrible, the same as before. Oh, how I cursed. I was midway through the mash of my brew today when this happened, so I didn't want to ruin 3 brews. I needed to find out what it was. At this stage, I was thinking it was residual plastic in the hop sock (I boiled it 3 times, sterilised twice and washed it in the dishwasher though so I was struggling to believe it) but wasn't convinced.

I thought for a while. I boiled about 10l of water in the boiler to rule it out. Once done, I tipped some out and tasted it later. BURNT PLASTIC. I thought for ages and then realised it must have been the sealant I used on the sight glass - which was rated for boiling temps mind you. I ripped a bit off it and tasted it, and it was 100% the problem. My wife was of course out, I was looking after the kids and I had reached mash-out, so I sparged into two fermenters.

I'm going out to taste my sealing attempt again and then boil. Hang around for more hilarity and bad luck, or general comedic entertainment.


----------



## TheWiggman

TheWiggman said:


> I'm going out to taste my sealing attempt again and then boil. Hang around for more hilarity and bad luck, or general comedic entertainment.


After boiling for 10 mins, no detectable plastic taste. Phew. 

Finished boiling my weissbier and tasted it - there seems to be some presence of the 'tartness' of the plastic but it doesn't linger at all and it's possible it's all in my head. I'm boiling 40l of bleached water now to try and kill everything one last time. If this doesn't work, I may kill myself.
Also going to try to get warranty on the sight glass that never sealed and my Keg King element. There aren't that many parts left that can fail. In time I'm going to ditch my Cornelius HLT in exchange for a more practical 38l pot, same as my other one. Will also buy a 2400 W element like the one I got from Gryphon because that so far seems to be a much higher quality item.


----------



## TheWiggman

Well brew #4 down the drain. About 10min into the boil there was a faint detectable plastic taste. Not bad, but present. I tipped the hops out of the hop bag in case the bag was the problem. 
After 20min, the familiar taste was back. I had a bloke there to taste as well and he agreed, it was rubbishy plastic. 

I'm over it. I can't brew beer with this boiler. It's all stainless except for the silicone washers and brass plug. I soaked the bottom 3rd of it in a Star San solution overnight and then cleaned with PBW with thorough rinse the next day. I'm all out of ideas except for replacing everything.


----------



## MastersBrewery

I thought you had got the taste during the mash last time, before it got to the kettle. With the LBP imploding on a previous brew, I would be exploring the possibility of some part of the pump lodging in the HX coil. Reread the thread to again familiarize myself with your setup and I can't see anything that should be doing this. I would be doing separate hot runs on each piece of equipment with water, taste test each to get closer to isolating the cause, bet is it's something small. Teething problems grrr


----------



## TheWiggman

No, I assumed I got it from the mash last time. I never actually tasted it. I have a feeling the pump wasn't at fault at all though it did start seiznig. Today I took the element off and found this inside it -





It was hard and crusty and was the liquid sealant I used in place of plumbers tape: http://www.bunnings.com.au/boston-50ml-liquid-sealant_p4750075
The tape is rated to 135°C though and tasting the plastic there was nothing notably nasty about it. In any case, I cleaned it with a strong mixture of PBW for 40 mins then wire brushed it off. I then soaked the entire keg with Star San after putting it all back together after rinsing it with PBW first. Then a big rinse and it was all good to go. 
For the entire mash I taste the liquor and there is not a hint of plastic or off flavours in it - it tastes awesome and smells great as you would expect. Then, after boiling for about 10 mins, the flavour is present and gets stronger the more it boils.

I'm at wit's end. I did another brew this afternoon after my big cleaning efforts. I heated sparge water in the kettle to 78°C and it tasted clean. I was going to split the pre-boil and boil one half on the stove but while putting the kids in bed, I left a tap open on something and lost about half my beer. Seeing as I only have about 20l I thought stuff it, I may as well use the kettle again. And I'm pretty sure the plastic taste is back 30 mins into the boil. There is literally nothing more I can do. I took a run off from what was left from the sparge so I'm going to boil that on the stove to see if it tastes funny. If so, I know the mash and HEx are fine. If not, I think I might have to throw everything in the bin. I'm getting to that point.


----------



## MastersBrewery

Yeah I can see how frustrating it's getting, let us know how you go with the boil of runnings on the stove

ED: further thought, you did take the inner plastic tube out of the ss mesh in the mash tun right?


----------



## TheWiggman

I boiled the runnings for 30 mins and tasted, 100% fine. Tasted good actually. The problem seems to be something in the kettle that comes out when boiled. What I don't get is why water isn't affected. Maybe it's the acidity of the wort? 
The solution: use this as a HLT and get a pot and new element for the boiler. I'm going to park the brew system for a while because I've thrown far too much cash at it (and no beer to show for it) and need to save for the new gear. 

Argh!

Oh yeah - braid has no inner


----------



## lael

Can you post some pics of your system? How is the braid connected to an outlet? Does it have any rubber orings or something left in there?

Bummer situation. At least it seems narrowed down. What valves etc are you using?


----------



## real_beer

Have your compression fittings got metal or nylon olives?


----------



## TheWiggman

real_beer said:


> Have your compression fittings got metal or nylon olives?


Stainless. The compression fitting in the boiler is absent.


----------



## TheWiggman

lael said:


> Can you post some pics of your system? How is the braid connected to an outlet? Does it have any rubber orings or something left in there?
> 
> Bummer situation. At least it seems narrowed down. What valves etc are you using?


I have a few pics ealier in the thread and in my gallery. Only materials used are stainless and silicone. The braid is connected by sliding it inside some silicone hose and the hose goes over the barb. In the mash tun i didn't use any sealant on the threads to minimise the different stuff used and allow it to be pulled apart easily if required. There's nothing rubber anywhere to speak of.

Valves are stainless, Maxiflow and a higher-quality type that came as part of a bulkhead kit from iBrew. As per above though, the problem seems to be isolated to the kettle.


----------



## real_beer

There's a possibility it could be the plastic in your sight glass, read the reply in this electric kettle query https://getsatisfaction.com/breville/topics/plastic_smell_taste_from_new_kettle


----------



## TheWiggman

real_beer said:


> There's a possibility it could be the plastic in your sight glass, read the reply in this electric kettle query https://getsatisfaction.com/breville/topics/plastic_smell_taste_from_new_kettle


True. I'm confident the original problem was caused by an ingress of melted sealant I used on the site glass as it never sealed (read post #27). The sight glass was however made of glass, stainless, had silicone seals and the rest was aluminium. I'm finding it hard to understand how after so much cleaning the taste is still there be it a subtle version of what it was before. Which isn't present if only water is boiled.
When I fermented my wheat beer, the fementer still smelt of it even after a good bleaching. PBW sorted the smell out.


----------



## smoo

Just a thought. could it be that your boil element is getting too hot and melting the seals around it?
You said that it was boiling like crazy which Im thinking means while the liquid will only reach 100C the element could be much much hotter.


----------



## TheWiggman

They're silicone seals, check out the pic above in post #31.


----------



## TheWiggman

I had my brother in law around, so I was inspired to show him the system and for the sake of it pulled apart the ball valve in the boiler because I was convinced this wasn't at fault. Plasticky shit all through it. Gave it a hardcore brewery clean and ran a brew of oats and sugar through the entire system. No plastic taste after a 30 min boil. MERRY CHRISTMAS! I may have actually solved the problem with it. Time to order some more grain to - astonishingly - brew a beer for myself. 
I also got a new 2400W element, a stainless HERMS coil ala Gryphon, a 3l Erlenmeyer flask and STC1000 controller for Christmas. Things are looking up, finally. 

Merry Christmas to all and happy brewing. Hopefully my next post will be a happier one.


----------



## TheWiggman

I had a bit of 'me time' for the first time this holidays and put together my second temperature controller. I had a PID same as my first one and I also had my new STC-1000 which I want mainly for fridge control. The problems I wanted to address were -


When switching to 4V (will be getting a HERMS set up in the coming months with my funky coil) I want something simple to heat the kettle to strike temp. In fact I want that now.
A controller for a heat belt
A fridge controller that can also handle a heat belt. The temps really swing in Orange
After some deliberation, I bit the bullet and bought another grey ABS box as it suits the PID perfectly. I mounted it in a similar fashion, tore apart another Nokia charger, installed an SSD (2 x 40A on their way) and voila! An all-in-one control box. 

PID for precise control.
STC-1000 for fermentation.
2 x 240V sockets on the back for heating or cooling.

The switch at the top switches the heating between the STC or PID. This means that I can have it running on two things in the system at the same time and one will not override the other.

I wired it up and it worked first go. Stoked. I'm going to get a more robust thermistor and get the plug and socket off the old controller to make it a little neater. In the meantime, it works.
I also scored a fermenting fridge for free. I'm told it doesn't get cool so I'm testing it now, but it operates and may be a simple fix. Provided it gets down to 12°C though it'll be good enough. I'm waiting on my order of grain and will be brewing next weekend.


----------



## TheWiggman

GOOD NEWS. Weissbier brewed, zero plastic taste present.

Batch sparged and used the boiler as a kettle (put the mash liquor into a fermenter and transferred it later). I forgot the whirlfloc, but whirlpooled and left for 30 mins at a friend's advice. After transferring, I was amazed at the shit which had collected at the bottom. What made it into the fermenter was as clean as the Fijian ocean.

Pre-boil gravity hit.
OG hit.
Final volume miraculously hit (ended up with 20l and I was all wtf? Looked at my recipe and I'd actually planned that for kegging after modifying the recipe).
Brew house efficiency of around 75%.
Tastes like nectar, fermenting like an absolute mofo in true 3068 style.

My recipe calls for higher temps to get banana flavours in the finished product and aims at 22°C. It was 37°C in the shed and the fridge is only able to get it down to 22°C. I'm not concerned. My problems are solved and my life better for it.

Ladies and gentlemen, the journey starts here.


----------



## Tahoose

Wiggman just gone through this topic and all I can say is I think you have more persistence than I and a very understanding partner.

Hope that you don't hit anymore spanners in the works and sounds like soon you will have your own fully functioning brewery. It will be worth it when your making the nectar of the gods on a regular basis.

Happy brewing


----------



## TheWiggman

Comforting words Tahoose, but unfortunately my luck has taken a turn for the worse. As for my partner, she's at the races today so I've been at home looking after 3 mad kids. Still managed a brew because I'm just that hardcore.

I tasted the weissbier after a few days in the fermenter and noted the plastic taste has returned. Not pronounced, but present. I'm over the system in general so I figure f%^k it - I'm going to drink this one. I got someone else to sample it and they said they couldn't really tell, so that says how obvious it is.
Today I did a XXXX bitter recipe (don't hate on me - I like the beer alright? Gold is another story...) which I batched sparged as I explained above.

Mashed in at 50°C for protein rest for 15 mins
Mash at 66°C (double checked my temps today and found out the thermocouples read badly, so I was right on it). +/-0.5°C for an hour.
Mash out to 78°C for 20 mins, dumped the mash into a fermenter so I can use the boiler as a kettle.

While I was doing this I noticed something odd that I've seen in the other brews but didn't think twice. Bear in mind I've never seen another AG brewer in action before excluding a BIAB. Note the colour around the bubbles - 






Can someone tell me if this is normal? In real life there was a bit more colour, like an oil slick. To me that says there is some sort of hydrocarbon in the mash, and I haven't put oil anywhere near the system. I believe it's a plastic residue. I'm certain it's not the grain because this was packaged by Craft Brewer. 
In fact I'm pretty bloody confident this isn't normal, I just want reassurance.

At this stage it tastes really good, can't tell that there's something in there that shouldn't be. After doing the rest of the brew (got everything spot on with an extra 1.5l in the fermenter) I tasted it half way through the boil and I reckon the plastic taste has returned. It's now chilling in the fridge and I'll be splitting the yeast so if it does turn out badly, I'll have some fresh stuff on-hand.

I was surprisingly relaxed as I suppose this isn't a new thing for me. I bit the bullet and pulled the entire system apart. What I found was that there was a lot of plastic stinkiness in both the mash tun and keg/RIMS unit on all the stainless fittings. Here's all of it, and if you look at the threads you'll see what I'm talking about. What's visible is not the worst of it. And yes, there's some rust on the compression fittings thanks to the copper tube which was horribly corroded - 






The culprit? Because I didn't have any thread tape in the shed when I built the system, I used this -






Before everyone rants - yes I know how silly I am - it does say it's rated for water and gas up to 135°C, well above temps I exposed it to. It's obviously not acidic-mash tolerant though, and the mash liquor must have slowly chewed away at it during the brew cycle and wrecked all my brews. I had a chew on one of the threads in the mash tun and it tasted horrible. My original dramas with the boiler though were a different issue, this is just another thing to add to this mess.
I spent all afternoon cleaning every little bit of plastic out and giving it a solid PBW soak. There is not a hint of the smell any more. I reassembled everything with blue thread tape this time and I assume that's fine to use in contact with mash liquor. I pulled the keg apart and will purchase the gear to make a HERMS system out of my HERMS coil in the near future. It'll be a while until the next brew so I'll find out then if I've solved it. 

I'm pretty confident I have. Here's a list of where I failed -

Used a liquid sealant on threads
Used a sealant on a leak
Installed a sight glass unnecessarily
Purchased an undersized pump
Cleaned copper with bleach
Used a keg as RIMS system when I should have settled on something simpler
Many lessons for the new brewer. DON'T USE LIQUID SEALANT UNLESS YOU WANT TO BE PISSED OFF AT THE WORLD CONSTANTLY. I still love this hobby though.


----------



## TheWiggman

I figured... why not build a HERMS?

A trip down to the big green shed and smaller blue one later, I was here (complete with cleaned and refitted fittings):






About 2-3 hours later, we have this:






Not a leak to be found. For reference, 12mm olives / cutting rings will fit in a 12.7mm compression fittings for this pressure application. So now, my brewery looks like this (excluding boiler) -






Simpler, neater, ramps up faster, less risk of dodgy flavours or error. Stoked.


----------



## Tahoose

Haha you can't help your self hey mate? Looks good though, 

The idea of rigging up a kettle element and a ball valve tap thingy to my big w pot is daunting enough for me. Thinking of adding in a stc-1000 so it will control it as a HLT, and then post mash and lautering I can use the same pot as my brew kettle.


----------



## TheWiggman

Tahoose said:


> Haha you can't help your self hey mate? Looks good though,
> 
> The idea of rigging up a kettle element and a ball valve tap thingy to my big w pot is daunting enough for me. Thinking of adding in a stc-1000 so it will control it as a HLT, and then post mash and lautering I can use the same pot as my brew kettle.



I've been punished enough by this system. I'll sleep well the day I taste a beer not impinged by my own failings. 

You'll be right with the pot. If you stuff up at least it'll only cost you a few bucks. Just make sure if you're using hole saws you keep the lube up to it and go slowly. Definitely go the STC-1000 with a thermowell for the sensor, you won't regret it.


----------



## maxim0200

Just read through the thread,
What a saga indeed!
Well done getting it sorted, look forward to seeing some nice brews in your future keezer.... (if you dont have one already 

Also where do you get your grain? im not such a fan of the local CountryBrewer.


----------



## TheWiggman

I use Craft Brewer for all my grain and yeast. They give you the option to have it milled and will pack a whole recipe into one bag.


----------



## TheWiggman

Well I did my Australia Day brew yesterday (Coopers Sparkling clone by AndrewQLD) and again - bad news.

As per post #46 above, the bubbles during the transfer had a coloured character about them in the sunlight. While sweet, the mash liquor had a very faint 'tang' that I was dodgy about. During the boil, about 15 mins in, you could taste a very bitter flavour that's best described as tart.
In the fermenter now, and it tastes really tart. It lingers on the tip of the tongue for about a minute. Maybe this is how it should be, but I was of the impression that the taste into the fermenter is a good indicator of the final product. I'm going to carry on with it because I have nothing to lose.

The next step is to swap out the silicone hose. They're discoloured and PBW won't get rid of the thin film. I'm guessing this is where some crap is residing that is contaminating the brew. It can't really be anything else except the grains or the pump, and the hose has a funny smell about it.

Anyone got some feedback about the colourful bubbles?


----------



## TheWiggman

*Sigh*...


----------



## MastersBrewery

after you found the liquid sealant was the problem, I see that you went through the whole kit and cleaned it. Did you do a full run through with out grain just water to test if that stuff had permeated the hoses/ pump. As you would know from cooking with a microwave plastics can absorb flavours. I'm really hoping I'm wrong! Note the discolouring of your hoses is normal. I'm not too sure what you mean by colourful bubbles, do you mean like motor oil on water?

ED just saw your pic if that is as clean as they were after pbw ditch em though I'd still be worried if there was any residue in the pump. Not an expert by any means but my hoses have never had build up like that


----------



## TheWiggman

Colour on the bubbles like oil, yeah. When it made it to the fermenter there was a very thin film of something on about 30% of the surface. 

I've split the pump and there's nothing in there like the hoses. Soaked the wet end in Starsan, gave it a scour for the hell of it, then recirculated Starsan solution for about 2 hours. I'm replacing all the hoses because I'm not risking it again. Thankfully I have spares.


----------



## mr_wibble

TheWiggman said:


> Anyone got some feedback about the colourful bubbles?


I sometimes get this a bit. I figured it was just oils out of the grains (barley malt is about 2% oil).
(or i didn't rinse the cleaners out properly :blink


----------



## Cocko

TheWiggman said:


> Soaked the wet end in Starsan, gave it a scour for the hell of it, then recirculated Starsan solution for about 2 hours. I'm replacing all the hoses because I'm not risking it again. Thankfully I have spares.



I hope you mean PBW at this stage? I am not doubting your knowledge here but you know Starsan is purely a sanatiser, not a cleaner?

You should be soaking or recirculating with PBW - then rinsing with Starsan - again sorry TLTR but a quick flick through the thread proves you know this... but just making sure you hoses are getting it.

On brew day, once finished with the hoses I, Rinse them out with the hose, inside and out and throw them in an old fermenter of PBW mix and let them soak for a day or 2, time allowing - then rinse the BaJeebus out of them with water and THEN - rinse in starsan, from my understanding it just needs to touch the surfaces, not soak or recirculate - I may be wrong?


****, I hope you sort this out mate, such a nice looking rig and such an effort to get this far - I wanna hear about your first AMAZING beer as much as the next man!

God speed.

10 [Metric] cents.


----------



## TheWiggman

That post was uplifting, much appreciated. 

Yes I meant Starsan and I completely understand it's a santiser. The reason I didn't PBW is because I had already done that for a few hours at 70°C beforehand. I figure throwing Starsan at it wouldn't hurt. Plus, seeing the results of it soaking in copper and my boiler, it seems to do more than just sanitise. It's dead-set left a silver ring in the boiler where I left it soaking for a day. 

Your advice is in line with my thoughts. I typically only PBW when required and don't soak my lines. Other that that I do everything else you've said. Might start soaking the lines but I normally use bleach in the fermenter, so not sure if it's good to use with silicone. 

I tasted the brew today and thought "son of a... that tastes like Sparkling Ale". Tartness is almost absent and it's starting to taste like beer. Definitely will be seeing this one through, this could be the one I've been waiting for.


----------



## MastersBrewery

sounds like good news, on another note



Cocko said:


> 10 [Metric] cents.


You used to be cheap!!!.... capitalism sux


----------



## TheWiggman

:huh: - A BEER. Wiessbier.






This is the infamous first pour of my own beer on the system. It had a distinct 'plastic' taste and smell, but it doesn't linger and may be in the style. The head is very fine and runs all the way to the bottom of the glass. For some reason it attenuated down to 1.005, ending up at 5.9% (5% target). It doesn't leave you feeling full and friday night showed me it's certainly stronger than your average pub lager.
Others tried it and thought it tasted alright. Someone actually noted it was nice. Definitely doesn't have the traditional home brew character, and is a step in the right direction.

I checked the CSA after 5 days in the fementer and after dropping to 1.011 quickly, it seemed to stall. Knowing that I under-pitched, I opened the vessel last night, and gave it a rouse (never done it before). There was activity when I opened it it but figured it's already open - might as well give it a stir. Tasted it this morning. It had a really unusual citrus flavour and scent that wasn't offensive, but was not CSA. To my nose it wasn't an infection. This evening I took another test and taste and it's dropped to 1.007 and tastes distinctly like a CSA. Chalk and cheese since this morning. Brewing is a funny animal and patience is a virtue. I'll keg next weekend.

Oh and while I was there, I put in my new shelves and moved my other project - the MAME cabinet. I got into the R-Type, Defender, Bubble Bobble and Golden Axe and after a few schooners of the weissbier there was a party going on even though nobody was invited. Behold.


----------



## pat_00

nice work. I think a mame cabinet is on the cards for my shed.


----------



## TheWiggman

Out of nowhere our company gave everyone a very nice bonus (which we were entitled to mind you) so it was time to make use of the heating element and leftover stainless bits to build a HLT. Here's my new HLT in all its stainless glory (cheap eBay purchase). Currently running off an STC-1000 but will utilise the PID once my thermocouple arrives in the mail - 







I have found that it overshoots due to lack of flow and hence inconsistent heat in the water. Not a huge drama as I can stir to maintain.

HLT internals. Uncomplicated and all stainless. Will have a compression fitting with a small tube of stainless one day to place suction above the height of the element and prevent boiling dry. Minor rusty bit which is consistent with the price paid for the pot.






I decided to splurge on some insulation which will save cash in the long run, improve ramp times and maintain better temp control. I had some left over so why not insulate the HERMS coil? I also cut new lengths to and from the HEx because I no longer need to prick about with these and this is far neater. Let heat loss through the section now too.






Here's my favourite part of the update - proper sparging. Before I had to -

Heat sparge water in boiler (dipping the sensor in)
Empty mash liquor to a fermenter
Add sparge water to MLT
Transfer mash liquor from fermenter to boiler
Empty sparge liquor to boiler
Now all I do is -

Disconnect pump suction from MLT and connect to HLT
Connect MLT out to boiler in
Sparge
This will also rinse the HERMS coil and hoses and make the whole process simpler. If I want to batch sparge well I can do that too.
I think I'll run the HERMS PID while sparging just to ensure the sparge water is consistent and hot by the time it makes its way to the mash tun.






I'm doing a re-brew of my first ever AG attempt tomorrow after modifying the recipe so here's hoping it all goes well. Everything's been cleaned to buggery and I'm keen to see how the insulation performs. EXCITING STUFF.

I kegged an oatmeal stout last night and am happy to say that ALL plastic or off flavours are gone. Can't wait for it to condition so I can drink it.


----------



## Yob

I ended up installing a LBP on my HLT as stirring it gave me the shits pretty bloody quickly, works a treat, never missed a beat and wouldnt do it any other way, it has its own pickup and return so does the added job of keeping any salts ive added to the HLT in solution.

Looking good... will look even nicer when you insulate those lines   :lol: :icon_cheers:


----------



## TheWiggman

Gotta say Yob, your HLT was my inspiration for the insulation. LBP will probably happen in time. 
Line insulation? Note the flashy yellow welder to the left? It's also a spanker. I'll be making a stand before I do anything else I think. Haven't even had a chance to give it a crack with the brewery upgrades.


----------



## TheWiggman

Maybe someone's still following this thread...
Updated system works an absolute treat. Did my first no-chill cube today too. Did a recipe at 80% efficiency and hit 1.049 (target 1.046) and managed to completely fill the 20l cube with a tiny bit left over. Borrowing a chest freezer and once my yeast has been stepped up to 2l I'll give my first lager a crack.


----------



## seehuusen

Hey mate,

Just read your thread, looks like you're finally on the home stretch 

Do you mind explaining how you built the HERMs please? Looking at the below picture, I can't figure out where the heating element went?
Also, is that drainage pipe used? Keen to build one of these myself soon, thankful for any advice you could part with!

Cheers
Martin


----------



## MastersBrewery

this may help: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/63362-hermit-coil-heat-exchange-build/


----------



## TheWiggman

That's the one. 
Also check out the retail thread for Nev's (online brewing supplies) new flashy housing. If you've got the coin it will keep the brewery looking schmick and will make good beer to boot.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

TheWiggman said:


> That's the one.
> Also check out the retail thread for Nev's (online brewing supplies) new flashy housing. If you've got the coin it will keep the brewery looking schmick and will make good beer to boot.


Here is the thread http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/79820-herm-it-hxss/


----------



## sjp770

Quite a read, where did you get your insulation from?


----------



## Adr_0

What was the original silicone you used? Remember the brand/type?


----------



## TheWiggman

Insulation was purchased from Bathurst Rubber in town. Almost guaranteeed to be this stuff - http://www.jenkinsrubber.com.au/?stg=657&view=657
Did wonders to ramp times and totally worth it. I plan to do the HLT as well but funds are low this time of year. Plus, _look at it._

Adr_0, pretty sure the sealant was this stuff - http://www.selleys.com.au/sealants/silicone/glass/#information
Can confirm when I get home. I recall it being high temp rated but I don't recall waiting 7 days for it to cure. I used a silicone washer and Bostich life-ruining shit on the page before, then sealed the outside with this stuff. The sealant by far and away had the biggest impact on plastic contamination. Absolutely horrible. Even the dog rejected it.


----------



## Adr_0

Cool, know to avoid. I'm still keen to try some silicone on my temp probes and mash tun. Going to try the Silastic 747 — perhaps not ideal (748 looks like the goods) but I might do a sacrificial mash/boil and see how it goes. 

On the LBP being undersized, are you sure? It had been unreal for me, as long as there is no restriction on the inlet/suction side and I do a clean-in-place with PBW after the mash. 

The 'labouring' sound you heard was most likely cavitation. The pump not flowing was potentially a gummed up shaft. 

I will show you a pic of my LBP header system shortly...


----------



## mofox1

TheWiggman said:


> Insulation was purchased from Bathurst Rubber in town. Almost guaranteeed to be this stuff - http://www.jenkinsrubber.com.au/?stg=657&view=657
> Did wonders to ramp times and totally worth it. I plan to do the HLT as well but funds are low this time of year. Plus, _look at it._
> 
> Adr_0, pretty sure the sealant was this stuff - http://www.selleys.com.au/sealants/silicone/glass/#information
> Can confirm when I get home. I recall it being high temp rated but I don't recall waiting 7 days for it to cure. I used a silicone washer and Bostich life-ruining shit on the page before, then sealed the outside with this stuff. The sealant by far and away had the biggest impact on plastic contamination. Absolutely horrible. Even the dog rejected it.


Interesting, a PE foam rated to 100°C.

I want to insulate and wood clad *all* my vessels (HLT & BK for now - MT when I replace the esky). I was trying to find a retailer for a foil backed PU foam (without much luck) as I thought most PE foam would melt at 100. I was even prepared to leave out the insulation on the BK and just clad it in wood (which would probably insulate it well anyway). But if this is rated up to 100....

Now to find a retailer in melbourne... :unsure:

As for the sealant, I've used selleys-401 around my element enclosure. It's high temp & non-toxic (incidental food contact). So I'm not too concerned (at the moment) if there is a little bit of contact inside threads.


----------



## Adr_0

mofox1 said:


> As for the sealant, I've used selleys-401 around my element enclosure. It's high temp & non-toxic (incidental food contact). So I'm not too concerned (at the moment) if there is a little bit of contact inside threads.


Any plastic tastes? I did a test seal on an esky and it seemed to be ok, but it's an acid cure silicone so I am a little nervous. I guess I should call Selleys/Dow Corning and see about acidic food, eg milk or mashes, and how this impacts acid-curing silicones...


----------



## sjp770

That insulation is $32/m for the 10mm x 1000mm off the roll stuff. 5m delivered to country NSW was $215. I can see why you didn't do it all


----------



## Crouch

I've been tempted to clad my pots in some insulation - this stuff you've used looks good, but I cant get away from the awesome old-world feel of cladding in some nice timber with a stainless steel 'belt'

Interested thread, glad the nightmare has come to an end!


----------



## TheWiggman

Adr_0 said:


> Cool, know to avoid. I'm still keen to try some silicone on my temp probes and mash tun. Going to try the Silastic 747 — perhaps not ideal (748 looks like the goods) but I might do a sacrificial mash/boil and see how it goes.
> 
> On the LBP being undersized, are you sure? It had been unreal for me, as long as there is no restriction on the inlet/suction side and I do a clean-in-place with PBW after the mash.
> 
> The 'labouring' sound you heard was most likely cavitation. The pump not flowing was potentially a gummed up shaft.
> 
> I will show you a pic of my LBP header system shortly...


I don't think I ever said the LBP was undersized, in fact the opposite. It was a trooper while it lasted. When it started to struggle it was almost certainly due to a gummed up shaft. I didn't realise it could be removed, and I wish I did. Certainly wasn't cavitation, I know what that is / sounds like. Unfortunately I didn't have PBW at that stage but did give it a lot of cleaning and rinsing after each use.
I've seen the pump on some photos of your old setup (AdRIMS thread), keen to see the new setup.

mofox, I asked the bloke at the shop and he called the supplier. Got off the phone and said "Yep, is safe for use on pots with boiling water. Just keep it away from flames".

sjp770, I paid $50 for a metre for the self adhesive.

Nightmare has definitely come to an end. I've enjoyed many a good beer since :beerbang:


----------



## TheWiggman

Here's the sealant I used Adr_0. 




I'm an idiot. 
On reflection I bought this for the guttering when I built my shed. I had leaks in my kettle, this was there, so I used it. Sealed the leak, carried on. 
My best advice I think was advice I left in another thread - follow others' advice.


----------

