# Style Of The Week 4/3/09 - Belgian Dark Strong Ale



## Stuster (4/3/09)

The warm weather is here but not for long it seems, so maybe it's time to think about beers for the winter. Belgian Dark Strong Ale (BJCP 18E) is a big beer that you can make now but should be ready for the winter (this one or next B) ). 

There's been a bit of discussion on AHB about this style here, and this is also very relevant to the choice of yeast.

There's also good info on the Jamil Show.

So what are your tricks for this style. Grains and hops? Can you brew this style with extract and grains? What sugars (if any) do you use? Spices? The very important question of yeast - which strain, temperature, how much of it? How long to let it mature? Favourite commercial examples? Any other advice?

Tell us all you know so we can make great beer. :chug: 



> 18E. Belgian Dark Strong Ale
> 
> Aroma: Complex, with a rich malty sweetness, significant esters and alcohol, and an optional light to moderate spiciness. The malt is rich and strong, and can have a Munich-type quality often with a caramel, toast and/or bready aroma. The fruity esters are strong to moderately low, and can contain raisin, plum, dried cherry, fig or prune notes. Spicy phenols may be present, but usually have a peppery quality not clove-like. Alcohols are soft, spicy, perfumy and/or rose-like, and are low to moderate in intensity. Hops are not usually present (but a very low noble hop aroma is acceptable). No diacetyl. No dark/roast malt aroma. No hot alcohols or solventy aromas. No recognizable spice additions.
> 
> ...


----------



## hazard (4/3/09)

Chimay Blue is probably my favourite beer at the moment, but its pretty expensive ($8 per stubbie at Dan's, don't expect it get it for less than $15 at a bar) so I've been to do this at home and save big bucks.

I tried the Chimay Blue kit from BrewCraft - forget it. This is made purely from extracts and sugar, and it came out very syrupy and medicinal. Never again.

G&G sells a FWK specially for strong ales - 17L at 1080 OG. They have a recipe for belgian dubbel on their site:
- 17L of FWK #4
- 200g of carahell, 200g of caraamber, 200g of caraaroma, stepped in 2L of water

I have read up about chimay, and apparently it is 10% wheat starch, so I modified this recipe:
- 17L of FWK #4
- specialty grains as above, minimash with 500g of torrifed wheat and 1kg of pilsener malt
- 250g candi sugar (home made)
- post-boil volume 23L
- ferment for 4 weeks (2 weeks primary, 2 weeks secondary)

BeerSmith tells me that I should expect OG of 1086, unfortunatly I had some family issues during batch sparging of partial mash and rushed the sparge and lost some efficiency. Measured OG was 1080. I didn't have time to make a starter, so used 2 sachets T58 saf wheat yeast. Final SG was 1020, ABV approx 7.6% and colour is like a good brown ale (darker than Newkie brown, not as dark as Tooheys Old) - so I guess this clsssifies as a Belgian Strong Dark Ale, even though recipe was for a Dubbel.

After a month in the bottle this tastes great. I do notice that there is a lot of yeast in the bottom, not sure if this is left over from the fermenter, or if there has been additional fermentation in the bottle (ie apart from priming sugar). 4 weeks may not be long enough in the fermenter.

I still don't have room for a full AG, I can mash up to 3kg of grain which gets me most of the way there for an ordinary quaffer but will leave me well short for something this strong - anyone have a good partial recipe I can use for the next batch I make? I will also use Wyeast - I beleive that one of their yeats is exact Chimay yeast (Jamils site has the details).

Hazard


----------



## reviled (4/3/09)

Does this count as a Belgian Strong Dark?? Brewing this weekend, any feedback would be great  Going for a fairly darkish malty spicy belgian beer..

4kg NZ Pils
2kg Rye*
*800g Munich
500g Brown Sugar
150g CaraAroma
150g CaraMunich II

Wyeast 3787

60 : 30g Super Alpha 10.5%
20 : 20g Styrian 5.5%
FO : 15g Styrian 5.5%
Dry hop : 15g Styrian


----------



## warrenlw63 (4/3/09)

Hey Stu

This one did surprisingly well for me several years ago. Unfortunately I've not replicated it again. Yeast may seem a strange choice but it made for a wonderful beer. I entered it in Vicbrew as a Trappist but I guess you could call it a Dark Strong.

Hope this helps.  

Trappist

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 24.00 Wort Size (L): 24.00
Total Grain (kg): 8.61
Anticipated OG: 1.089 Plato: 21.30
Anticipated EBC: 45.1
Anticipated IBU: 28.7
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 75 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
81.3 7.00 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 1.038 4
2.9 0.25 kg. Weyermann Caramunich II Germany 1.035 167
1.7 0.15 kg. Weyermann Caraaroma Germany 1.034 470
1.7 0.15 kg. Weyermann Acidulated Germany 1.000 5
1.2 0.10 kg. Weyermann Carafa Special I Germany 1.036 1277
0.7 0.06 kg. Flaked Wheat America 1.034 4
10.5 0.90 kg. Yellow Lump Sugar Generic 1.046 0

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
22.00 g. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 6.00 16.2 75 min.
22.00 g. Saaz Pellet 4.00 10.8 75 min.
5.00 g. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 6.00 1.8 30 min.
20.00 g. Saaz Pellet 4.00 0.0 0 min.
15.00 g. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 5.00 0.0 0 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 3942 Belgian Wheat

Warren -


----------



## Swinging Beef (4/3/09)

I love any strong belgian beers.
Ive made a couple of this style, and have plans for more in the future.
If I can make any suggestions:
Keep the grain bill simple, let the flavours come from the yeasts
Avoid any really asringent grains like chocolate malt, consider crafa instead.
Dont ferment too warm, although its fun to watch AbbeyII shooting out the air lock, smoother flavours, and less headaches, result from fermenting in the low range for the yeast.
Dry dry dry ... save any sugar additions till 2/3 thru the ferment. This way the yeastie beasties have chewed out most of the malt (complex sugars) and wont get lazy and ignore them later in the ferment, which can happen if you start with high gravity.

Im on a quest to get a decent replica of Kwak happening, but plan on having plenty of belgian beer ready for winter.


----------



## reviled (4/3/09)

Swinging Beef said:


> Dry dry dry ... save any sugar additions till 2/3 thru the ferment. This way the yeastie beasties have chewed out most of the malt (complex sugars) and wont get lazy and ignore them later in the ferment, which can happen if you start with high gravity.



I thought I was sposed to add the sugar in the last 10 mins of the boil? :huh:


----------



## jbirbeck (4/3/09)

I did up one of these as a 16l batch for my mate's wedding. I am ageing what is left (I only had three months) but after a month in the bottle it was fantastic. i didn't have any wheat so I used plain flour.

*Amount Item Type % or IBU*

3.50 kg Pilsner (2 Row) UK (1.0 SRM) Grain 64.34 %

0.80 kg Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 14.71 %

0.40 kg Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 7.35 %

0.20 kg Amber Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain 3.68 %

0.04 kg Carafa II (412.0 SRM) Grain 0.74 %

14.00 gm Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (60 min) Hops 6.1 IBU

14.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 9.6 IBU

14.00 gm Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (20 min) Hops 3.7 IBU

14.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [8.50 %] (20 min) Hops 5.8 IBU

0.50 kg Brown Sugar, Dark (50.0 SRM) Sugar 9.19 %

1 Pkgs Belgian Abbey II (Wyeast Labs #1762) Yeast-Ale


----------



## mikem108 (4/3/09)

reviled said:


> I thought I was sposed to add the sugar in the last 10 mins of the boil? :huh:



Better to add it after the yeast has chewed through most of the other sugars or they dive straight for the simple sugars then get lazy and give up, depending on the amount I sometimes make two additions during fermentation always makes for a better result.


----------



## Stuster (4/3/09)

Some interesting info there. I think that yeast sounds great for a strong dark, Warren. It's apparently the De Dolle yeast and they make big, dark beers which are great so it should work fine.


----------



## warrenlw63 (4/3/09)

Stu it was a repitched slurry from a previous batch of Wit at the time.

The Vicbrew judges said it had a fairly low aroma but with a good spicy malt flavour. Not much more than that I'm afraid it was back in 2002 which pre-dated the BJCP model of judging.  

Warren -


----------



## mercle (4/3/09)

This was my second AG beer I ever did-

6.00 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White)
0.50 kg Crystal, Dark (Joe White) 
0.50 kg Munich, Light (Joe White)
1.00 kg Dextrose (approx 10 mins before end of boil)

40.00 gm Hallertauer @ 60
20.00 gm Hallertauer @ 20

1 Pkgs SafBrew T-58

OG - 1086
FG - 1012
Alc - 9.7%

This didn't last very long after approx 2 months in the keg!

Needless to say it was nice, a little hot in fermenting gave it a slight hot alcohol taste, but its wasn't too over powering.


----------



## Millet Man (4/3/09)

Brewed this a while ago and it is tasting very nice after 4 weeks in primary and almost 3 weeks in secondary (still in fermenter), will keg, carbonate and bottle it over the next week or so. Ended up with an OG of 1.106 and FG of 1.030 (I get low attenuation with T-58 commercially too) and ABV of 10%, a bit lower than I was aiming for but it tastes reasonably well balanced. Not as dark as I would've liked though so borderline strong golden ale.

Cheers, Andrew.



Millet Man said:


> This is the first brew I've made at home for a good 6 months and I've got Millet Woman is helping out to make our wedding beer (we'll give a bottle to all the guests to take home). Should be almost ready to drink by 2 May but will be made to be aged. Something along the lines of a strong Belgian dark ale but of course it's gluten free.
> 
> Megandrew Wedding Ale
> 
> ...


----------



## reviled (10/3/09)

Been thinking on this over the weekend having brewed my Belgian rye in my oh so small BIAB pot, has given me the urge to brew a few really big beers :icon_drool2: Im working on a barleywine, but I also want some kind of Grande Reserve insanity beer which I can cellar for years..

Heres what im playing with - bear with me, its a biggun  Assuming 70% efficiency OG of about 1.115, IBU's 58

6.8kg Pale 70%
2kg Munich 20%
390g Cara-Aroma 4%
290g Dark Crystal 3%
190g Carafa 2%
500g Brown Sugar - Added half way through ferment
Wyeast 3787
60 : 25g Southern Cross 13.2%, 25g Super Alpha 10.5%
20 : 20g Styrians 5.5%
10 : 20g Styrians 5.5%

Any thoughts?? Maybe too much Carafa?


----------



## Stuster (10/3/09)

I think you could cut back the carafa. It depends on what you want though. There's nothing wrong with including it, but I guess you have to decide on how much coffee/roasted flavours you want. There's no right way with Belgian beers. :icon_cheers: 

For comparison, this is the one I made last week. It's still in a cube so no idea how it came out yet. Our recipes are pretty similar, though I kept the IBUs a bit lower than you have.

Batch Size: 20.00 L 
Boil Size: 25.41 L
Estimated OG: 1.098 SG
Estimated Color: 32.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 29.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 85.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
5.00 kg Bohemian Pilsner (5.9 EBC) Grain 66.95 % 
1.33 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 17.87 % 
0.17 kg Caramunich II (Weyermann) (124.1 EBC) Grain 2.28 % 
0.17 kg Caraaroma (Weyermann) (350.7 EBC) Grain 2.23 % 
0.05 kg Carafa Special I (Weyermann) (630.4 EBC) Grain 0.63 % 
30.00 gm Horizon [10.90 %] (60 min) Hops 29.4 IBU 
20.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.30 %] (0 min) Hops - 
0.75 kg Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (2.0 EBC) Sugar 10.04 % 
1 Pkgs Trappist High Gravity (Wyeast Labs #3787) Yeast-Wheat


----------



## reviled (10/3/09)

Cheers Stu :icon_cheers: 

Your recipe looks good, reason I went for higher IBU's was cos it may end up quite syrupy and also a bit of extra bitterness would go down well over a couple of years in the bottle yeh?

I was thinking cut back the carafa, I like the coffee notes it gives but I want it to just be sitting in the sideline, do you think id be better with 1%? Cos ill be getting a bit of roast from the cara-aroma as well?


----------



## brettprevans (11/6/09)

my dark belgian is down and going nicely.

Black Belgian Nights recipe 
2.0kg Dark DME
1.2kg Light LME 
1kg Morgans Masterblend Dark Crystal
0.5L Belgian Candi Syrup - Dark2
0.5kg Creamed Honey
0.03kg black patent malt
0.10kg special B

40g hallertau @ 40
30g goldings @ 40
10g hallertau @ 10
15g goldings @ 10
T58 yeast cake & recultured Chimay Blue yeast
22L

pitched about 300ml of yeast. it went off. woke the next morning to find a mess. this is the results after i cleaned it up (ie off walls etc). you can also se it soaked into the blanket covering the fermentor. it was soaked. and when i say blanket, it is actually the padded bottom of a baby's playpen. my wife wasnt impressed




after a few days of going nuts is died down and went a lttle silent. so in goes a teaspoon of yeast nutrient and some simple sugars (ie the dark beglian candi sugar i was holding back for this reason) and off again it goes.

Ive kept the temp at 20-22C the whole time so should get some nice yeast characteristics.


----------



## brettprevans (24/6/09)

well fermentation is well and truely finished now. I think its come out about 8%
Had a little taste last night. WOW. tasted like a dark duvel, i kid you not. its was bueatiful. lovely alc tones, nice belgian flavours/esters. so I poured myself some more and drank almost half a glass of it. This will be a cracker once its kegged and carbed up.


----------



## manticle (25/6/09)

My extract and partial varieties have turned out way too sweet but each one is an improvement. I'm about to try an all grain variety and hopefully achieve better attenuation and get it a bit drier. The one I have at the moment, I'm hoping will cellar nicely.

Agree with swinging beef about keeping it simple and getting the yeast to do its thing. I used 3787 in my last (and will use some top cropped slurry in my next) and the flavours are very distinctive (even in the cultured slurry which smeld like raisins). I'd also recommend trying to steer clear of going amazingly high gravity, at least until you know what you're doing. It may sound obvious to more experienced brewers but just because you can hit 1090 with that extra kilo of extract doesn't mean you should. High alcohol in a good Belgian is one thing but it only works because it balances sweetness with dryness.


----------



## brettprevans (25/6/09)

well swinging beef is right about keeping it simple. Beglian books will tell you that most belgians only have 2 or 3 grains max and are very simple recipe bills. Flavours come from yeast and adjuncts like candi sugars.


I think your advise is right manticle about not just hitting 1090 cause you can. but that applies for all beers not just belgians. the beers have to be balanced or they taste like crap


----------



## manticle (28/6/09)

Absolutely it applies to all. It's just because Belgian dubbels are particularly different to so many other beers and actively seek qualities which are often undesirable (fruity esters etc) and use things often regarded as undesirable (eg simple sugar) and do it all with great aplomb and skill.

Additionally as a new brewer and are working out recipes when you don't really understand the basics, it's easy/tempting to overshoot (software program tells me that if I add a can of morgans caramalt I'll get 9% alcohol which equates to Chimay) so my advice, pulled from experience suggests hold back and get the balance right. I've found when developing recipes I tend to stick within a rough style range (erring on the stronger side rather tahn weaker but still reasonably close) so I'm less tempted to make a 9% wheat beer than I am a 9% Belgian.

Certainly true for all beers but easy to forget with dubbels and BSD, at least as far as my recent attempts go.


----------



## Effect (11/8/09)

I have just ordered brew like a monk off the internet (along with designing great beers), it should be here shortly. I have always wanted to brew belgian golden and dark strong ales.

I have been reading up on a few websites on belgian strong ales and stubbled across this site homebrewchef.



> Recipe Specifications:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This beer must have been alright if he scaled it up and made it in a microbrewery...

I will be reading up on candi syrups and such when I get the book, but from recipies that are in our database, no one uses this amount of sugar...Most of the recipies use say 1kg of caster sugar late in the boil, none I have found use syrups...

Anyone have any experience with candi syrups?


----------



## brettprevans (11/8/09)

1. good purchase re brew like a monk. although its not the be all and end of all belgian brewing. plenty of other books out there would be more helpful for beginners.
2. 5 pounds of sugar. This guys kidding himself.
3. not sure where you got caster sugar being used from. i could be wrong. unles your just emaning white sugar (cane)
4. if you read the previous posts would would see that ive used candi syrup. quite a few HBS are selling it now incl onlinbe sponsors. its good stuff.


----------



## Effect (11/8/09)

citymorgue2 said:


> 1. good purchase re brew like a monk. although its not the be all and end of all belgian brewing. plenty of other books out there would be more helpful for beginners.
> 2. 5 pounds of sugar. This guys kidding himself.
> 3. not sure where you got caster sugar being used from. i could be wrong. unles your just emaning white sugar (cane)
> 4. if you read the previous posts would would see that ive used candi syrup. quite a few HBS are selling it now incl onlinbe sponsors. its good stuff.




So, how do you think this beer would turn out? It was actually 6 pounds of sugar (date sugar in the mash). So just under 3 kilos (roughly 2.7?) of sugar for a 6 gallon (22.7 Litres). It does seem like too much sugar (and yes I was refering to white cane sugar), so I wanted to see what you guys thought of the recipe. I also thought BLAM would give me some indication of the max ratio of candi sugar to malt would be like...

But again, the beer must be alright, the guy seems to have a good reputation and it was brewed in a micro brewery as well...


----------



## manticle (16/8/09)

Phillip said:


> So, how do you think this beer would turn out? It was actually 6 pounds of sugar (date sugar in the mash). So just under 3 kilos (roughly 2.7?) of sugar for a 6 gallon (22.7 Litres). It does seem like too much sugar (and yes I was refering to white cane sugar), so I wanted to see what you guys thought of the recipe. I also thought BLAM would give me some indication of the max ratio of candi sugar to malt would be like...
> 
> But again, the beer must be alright, the guy seems to have a good reputation and it was brewed in a micro brewery as well...




From memory I think BLAM suggests a range of up to 20%.

Good book. As CM2 said it's not the be all and end all but it is a great read and there is some top info in there. The best thing I guess is working out that Belgians taste complex but don't rely on complex grain bills or loads of spices as many often assume.

Pilsner malt as a base, good appropriate yeast, good temperature control (and a willingness to go above the the mantra of 18-20 to bring out some of the esters depending on style) and balancing malty with dry are all key elements.

The above recipe may be a cracker - hard to know without tasting - but to my mind it looks overly and unnecessarily complex. You should be able to put together a good version with less than half that stuff. I may have a sip of it one day and eat my hat but until then............


----------



## brettprevans (17/8/09)

Philip - I recon radical Breqwing by Mosher taught me more about brewing certain styles than most books. you can glean so much form that book. 
I'll have to re-read BLAM and see if it jumps out at me more this time.


----------



## Muggus (10/12/09)

I'm currently brewing a Belgian dark strong ale, and am wondering when is a good time to put the sugar in.
The OG was around 1.060 and it's been fermenting for 4 days now. 
I should check the gravity, but someone mentioned to chuck the sugar in 2/3 the way through the ferment, not exactly sure when that'll be.

Also, what's the best way to put it in? Just sprinkle over dry? Or boil it up with some water and cool it?


----------



## brettprevans (10/12/09)

assume it will ferment out to 1010. then its got 50 points to go. 2/3 of of 50 points is 37.5. so when its about 1022.5 go for it.

i just chuck mine in. it should be sterile but up to yuoui


----------



## manticle (10/12/09)

Muggus said:


> I'm currently brewing a Belgian dark strong ale, and am wondering when is a good time to put the sugar in.
> The OG was around 1.060 and it's been fermenting for 4 days now.
> I should check the gravity, but someone mentioned to chuck the sugar in 2/3 the way through the ferment, not exactly sure when that'll be.
> 
> Also, what's the best way to put it in? Just sprinkle over dry? Or boil it up with some water and cool it?



I caramelise mine. The flavour is very evident in the finished product.


----------



## Muggus (10/12/09)

manticle said:


> I caramelise mine. The flavour is very evident in the finished product.


Oooo caramalise! Now we're talking!
Especially when using dark brown sugar, this could be leg-endary!


----------



## manticle (10/12/09)

I basically reduce it down with some water and a touch of vinegar until it's around the colour I want the beer.

However you need to watch the latter stages like a hawk - it takes potentially hours to get to copper but minutes from there to get to burnt. When time comes to add it you can soften it with a little boiling water as it becomes hard as a rock. Otherwise use some kind of non-stick release paper.


----------



## Millet Man (10/12/09)

Just to update this batch, had some early may and it was lovely and spicy, strong alcohol warmth mmmm.

Had some in early November (8 months in bottle) and it had mellowed beautifully, still with alcohol warmth and spicyness but neslted in snuggly with the malt character. Still have 2 bottles for the first Anniversary in May 2010.

Need to make another batch soon.



Millet Man said:


> Brewed this a while ago and it is tasting very nice after 4 weeks in primary and almost 3 weeks in secondary (still in fermenter), will keg, carbonate and bottle it over the next week or so. Ended up with an OG of 1.106 and FG of 1.030 (I get low attenuation with T-58 commercially too) and ABV of 10%, a bit lower than I was aiming for but it tastes reasonably well balanced. Not as dark as I would've liked though so borderline strong golden ale.
> 
> Cheers, Andrew.


----------



## The Scientist (12/1/10)

Just about to put one of these down and I'm after a bit of feed back on my recipe. I'm trying to aim for something similar to a Trapist Rochfort 10. Let me know what you think:

Belgian Dark Strong

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Wort Size (L): 25.00
Total Grain (kg): 8.85
Anticipated OG: 1.091 Plato: 21.72
Anticipated SRM: 24.6
Anticipated IBU: 32.4
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time:  120 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
67.8 6.00 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 1.038 2
11.3 1.00 kg. Candi Sugar (dark) Generic 1.046 80
8.5 0.75 kg. Special B Malt Belgian 1.030 115
6.8 0.60 kg. Cara-Pils Dextrine Malt 1.033 2
5.6 0.50 kg. Cane Sugar Generic 1.046 0

Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
40.00 g. Styrian Goldings Pellet 5.40 23.4 First WH
30.00 g. Styrian Goldings Pellet 5.40 9.0 30 min.

Cheers,

TS


----------



## Stuster (13/1/10)

Looks pretty good to me, TS. I think the only thing I'd change is not to use so much (any) carapils. I think with such a big beer there's no need for it. Love to hear if you manage to make anything as good as Rochefort 10. :icon_drool2:


----------



## neonmeate (13/1/10)

i'd probably reduce the special B a bit and throw in some aromatic or melanoidin or munich malt for a bit of maltiness too. and im with stuster ive never understood the point of carapils.
have you had a look at the famous hobbybrouwers.nl rochefort 8 clone recipe?
For 10 liters, 1.080 OG, 32 IBU, 70 EBC :

Maltbill
% Amount Malt
70.4 2375 grams Pilsnermalt (Belgian)
11.1 375 grams Caramunich 120 EBC
1.5 50 grams Carafa special dehusked 800 EBC
3.7 125 grams Special "B"
3.7 125 grams Flaked Corn
9.6 325 grams Dark Candysugar

Hops (flowers) & Spices
Styrian Goldings 23 grams 4.2% 75 minutes
Hallertau Hersbrucker 10 grams 3.5% 30 minutes
Hallertau Hersbrucker 5 grams 3.5% 5 minutes
Coreanderseed crushed 5 grams 5 minutes

Yeast: Wyeast 1762 Belgian Abbey II or recultered from a bottle of Rochefort. The winning recipe used the Wyeast.

Mashing: 3 liters per kg malt. Flaked corn boiled separately before adding to the mash.

60-62C 30 minutes
68C 60 minutes
75C 5 minutes

Sparging with water at 78C
promash file is here:
http://www.szwayabrown.com/BeerAndMud/wp-c...rt_8_Clone.html



The Scientist said:


> Just about to put one of these down and I'm after a bit of feed back on my recipe. I'm trying to aim for something similar to a Trapist Rochfort 10. Let me know what you think:


----------



## barls (13/1/10)

heres the one ive been thinking of. its a beefed up smoked dark strong
Recipe Overview
Wort Volume Before Boil: 27.00 l Wort Volume After Boil: 20.00 l
Volume Transferred: 20.00 l Water Added To Fermenter: 0.00 l
Volume At Pitching: 20.00 l Volume Of Finished Beer: 19.00 l
Expected Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.062 SG Expected OG: 1.084 SG
Expected FG: 1.018 SG Apparent Attenuation: 77.0 %
Expected ABV: 8.8 % Expected ABW: 6.9 %
Expected IBU (using Tinseth): 22.8 IBU Expected Color (using Morey): 19.7 SRM
BU:GU ratio: 0.27 Approx Color:	
Mash Efficiency: 80.0 % 
Boil Duration: 60.0 mins 
Fermentation Temperature: 11 degC 


Fermentables
Ingredient	Amount	%	MCU	When
German Pilsner Malt 4.000 kg 58.8 % 2.2 In Mash/Steeped
German Munich Malt 1.500 kg 22.1 % 3.4 In Mash/Steeped
German Smoked Malt 0.700 kg 10.3 % 0.7 In Mash/Steeped
Belgian Special B 0.600 kg 8.8 % 36.8 In Mash/Steeped


Hops
Variety	Alpha	Amount	IBU	Form	When
German Northern Brewer 8.0 % 25 g 22.8 Loose Pellet Hops 60 Min From End


----------



## neonmeate (13/1/10)

looks interesting barls, kind of like hair of the dog adambier
what yeast you planning on using? be interesting to see how the phenols from the belgian yeast go with the phenols from the rauchmalz



barls said:


> heres the one ive been thinking of. its a beefed up smoked dark strong
> Recipe Overview
> Wort Volume Before Boil: 27.00 l Wort Volume After Boil: 20.00 l
> Volume Transferred: 20.00 l Water Added To Fermenter: 0.00 l
> ...


----------



## barls (13/1/10)

i was thinking the same one i use in my smoke beer being the canadian belgian. it really goes well with the smoke i use to make my own grain.


----------



## browndog (15/1/10)

Just put this one down this morning

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: BD's Belgian Dark Strong Ale
Brewer: Tony Brown
Asst Brewer: Jess
Style: Belgian Dark Strong Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 24.00 L 
Boil Size: 32.79 L
Estimated OG: 1.094 SG
Estimated Color: 19.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 30.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
5.25 kg Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SGrain 60.34 % 
1.00 kg Munich Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 11.49 % 
0.35 kg Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 4.02 % 
0.35 kg Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 4.02 % 
0.25 kg Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 2.87 % 
0.25 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 2.87 % 
0.25 kg Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 2.87 % 
40.00 gm Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (60 min) Hops 17.5 IBU 
40.00 gm Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (30 min) Hops 13.4 IBU 
0.50 tsp Koppafloc (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
5.00 gm Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min) Misc 
1.00 kg Cane (Beet) Sugar (0.0 SRM) Sugar 11.49 % 
1 Pkgs Trappist High Gravity (Wyeast Labs #3787) Yeast-Wheat 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 7.70 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
90 min Mash In Add 20.10 L of water at 76.5 C 65.0 C 

I had to add 0.5kg of dark brown sugar to get up to 1094, and a bit of black malt to the second sparge to get the colour right, odd as beersmith usually gets the colour spot on. 

cheers

Browndog


----------



## Gulpa (15/1/10)

Hey Barls,

When I was drinking your smoked swap beer I was thinking the smoked malt flavours/aromas from your malt would work well in a belgian dark strong. I guess the trick will be in the balance. Id be interested to take a look when this one is finished. It might just convince me to move over to the smoky side.

cheers
Andrew.




barls said:


> i was thinking the same one i use in my smoke beer being the canadian belgian. it really goes well with the smoke i use to make my own grain.


----------



## barls (15/1/10)

ill let you know how it goes if im allowed to brew again soon as 4 brew days in jan already and shwmbo is not looking happy


----------



## The Scientist (17/1/10)

neonmeate said:


> i'd probably reduce the special B a bit and throw in some aromatic or melanoidin or munich malt for a bit of maltiness too. and im with stuster ive never understood the point of carapils.
> have you had a look at the famous hobbybrouwers.nl rochefort 8 clone recipe?
> For 10 liters, 1.080 OG, 32 IBU, 70 EBC :
> 
> ...



Cheers for that one, gives me a few more things to think about.

Think I might try and source some wheat starch and use that in place of the corn though. I'll look in the local healthfoods shop and see what I can find.


----------



## winkle (17/1/10)

neonmeate said:


> i'd probably reduce the special B a bit and throw in some aromatic or melanoidin or munich malt for a bit of maltiness too. and im with stuster ive never understood the point of carapils.
> have you had a look at the famous hobbybrouwers.nl rochefort 8 clone recipe?
> For 10 liters, 1.080 OG, 32 IBU, 70 EBC :
> 
> ...



That does look good! I'll put it on the "to do" list, although I'll probably sub the corn for wheat like The Scientist and round out the quanities. (Wheat flakes for mine)


----------



## The Scientist (17/1/10)

winkle said:


> That does look good! I'll put it on the "to do" list, although I'll probably sub the corn for wheat like The Scientist and round out the quanities. (Wheat flakes for mine)



Let me know if you want some liquid yeast for this one Winkle as I should be able to bring a slant of wyeast 3787 to the next BABBs meet if your going.


----------



## winkle (19/1/10)

The Scientist said:


> Let me know if you want some liquid yeast for this one Winkle as I should be able to bring a slant of wyeast 3787 to the next BABBs meet if your going.



Too good, I'll be there (poisoning people with chinese hop beers)!

Could be tempted to give a smack pack of 3864 a burl in something like this as well  .


----------



## The Scientist (23/1/10)

Ok, I've come to what could possibly be the final recipe design for this brew. Don't think I've ever put so much time into formulating a recipe before. I've done quite a lot of research and have come up with the following:

The hand of God - Belgian Strong Dark

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 25.00 Wort Size (L): 25.00
Total Grain (kg): 11.00
Anticipated OG: 1.096 Plato: 22.84
Anticipated SRM: 27.5
Anticipated IBU: 27.0
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Min

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 32.26 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.074 SG 18.02 Plato


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
63.6 7.00 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 1.038 2
9.1 1.00 kg. Candi Sugar (amber) Generic 1.046 75
9.1 1.00 kg. JWM Light Munich Australia 1.038 10
4.5 0.50 kg. CaraMunich 60 France 1.034 60
4.5 0.50 kg. Special B Malt Belgian 1.030 120
4.5 0.50 kg. Aromatic Malt Belgium 1.036 25
2.3 0.25 kg. Flaked Soft White Wheat America 1.034 2
2.3 0.25 kg. Melanoidin Malt 1.033 35

Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
40.00 g. Styrian Goldings Pellet 4.75 21.7 80 min.
20.00 g. Styrian Goldings Pellet 4.85 5.3 30 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.10g Corriander Seed Spice 75 Min.(boil) 


Yeast
-----

Wyeast 1762 Belgian Abbey II 

Am planning to brew this the night of 24 Jan 2010

Any comments welcome.

Cheers, :icon_cheers: 

TS


----------



## Gulpa (24/1/10)

The Scientist said:


> Ok, I've come to what could possibly be the final recipe design for this brew. Don't think I've ever put so much time into formulating a recipe before. I've done quite a lot of research and have come up with the following:
> 
> The hand of God - Belgian Strong Dark
> 
> ...



Im not sure that recipe is going to work out. Send me three or four bottles when its done and I will give you some feedback :icon_drool2: .


cheers
Andrew.


----------



## neonmeate (24/1/10)

looks good the scientist - but not sure about having munich, aromatic AND melanoidin all in there - they're all sort of doing the same job of giving maltiness.
you might want to only add coriander for the last 5 mins instead of for the whole boil.
1096 OG should get you well over 11%ABV too so itll be a bruiser...
what sort of amber candi sugar are you using?


----------



## Effect (26/6/10)

Got a packet of 3787 that has been sitting in the fridge for about 9 months now and is screaming to eat some wort...

7.09 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 82.1 % 
0.69 kg Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 8.0 % 
0.35 kg Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 4.0 % 
0.09 kg Carafa II (412.0 SRM) Grain 1.0 % 
41.16 gm Northern Brewer [8.50%] (60 min) Hops 30.0 IBU 
0.43 kg Candi Sugar, Amber (75.0 SRM) Sugar 5.0 % 
1 Pkgs Trappist High Gravity (Wyeast Labs #3787) Yeast-Wheat 

OG 1.079
IBU 30

Mash at 66.

Will most definitly be making a starter with this packet - doing a brown ale that I will steal some wort from. Adding the sugar to secondary. Basically going to get some glucose syrup from coles and then simmer it until it gets to the colour I want.

What do the belgian dark ale masters out there think?

Cheers
Phil


----------

