# 2nd Cider about to go down



## Deep End (4/2/13)

Well going to put another one down tommorow morning, FV is currently drip drying after a few hours meta bisulphating, and all assorted gear. 

Going to be based off a Brigalow pack again. I have the Brigalow concentrate can 4 litres of apple, blackcurrant, raspberry and strawberry juice and 5 litres of apple and blackcurrant juice. I dont imagine that the extra fruit flavours will make a vast taste difference as the quantities are miniscule, but I'm hoping it might make a pretty red or purply coloured brew.

One question I have is; the brigalow can makes 18 litres, would it hurt to top it up to 20 litres or so with the juice instead of just replacing the water with said juice? I'd like to fill up the FV a little more.

Just out of interest I rang the 1800 number on the can today to see if I could find out what type of yeast is in the kit, had a brief conversation with a bloke on the other end of the phone and he said it was a wine type yeast, one other thing he was keen to let me know was that to make sure I bottle it at 1.000 to 1.004 so that it carbonates, apparently it will go down to .990 and if so wont carbonate as well or at all. Handy tip!

I'm thinking make up the kit, top up to 20 litres with juice and use 1.25 kg of Cane Sugar to biff up the booze level a little, got 9 litres of juice to go in with the can so I reckon 7 litres as water replacing body lifter and 2 for volume is a fair deal, any thoughts?

And then time to save up some coins and get me a press and a apple wrecker and head down the huon for some fresh apples and a have a crack at the "real thing". The kits will do me fine till then though, last one I bottled tasted fairly good, pretty good even, straight out of the FV, hope it stays pretty much the same, because it will be a fine drop with bubbles and 20 degrees less temp on it.

Cheers


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## manticle (4/2/13)

Bottle it when it's stable and finished. If that's .999 then it's .999. It will carbonate fine if you follow the right procedure.


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## Deep End (5/2/13)

Well I just mixed it all up, made it up to 21 litres, got an OG of 1.054, should give it a bit of bang by the time it gets down around 1.000 :drinks:


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## Deep End (23/2/13)

Well bottled this one the other day, I think I'll call it "Punch in the Face, Kiss on the Cheek", its a bit of a mouth full but so is the product. 

Had a taste before I bottled and it punched me in the face with a big alco kick and then kissed me on the cheek with a blackcurrant finish. 

I like its potential. 

Its going to be around 7.4% on the hangover scale and looks to be another nice drop, got an apple and pear bubbling away at the moment SG was 1050, which I think the pear juice may have something to do with.

Dont expect the FG to be as low as previous brews, due to unfermentables in the pear juice, but will be an interesting brew. It looks like liquid gold in the FV


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## Slyr31 (3/4/13)

I like it I'm going to replicate it


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## Deep End (3/4/13)

Its drinking well right now and its still young, you"ll like it i reckon


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## Bribie G (3/4/13)

I'm loving these ciders, Judging by all the cider threads popping up lately I can see a time when this will become the Aussie Ciderist Forum with a "not cider brewing" subforum for BIAB and HERMS etc 

My latest keg has just blown, awa' into the garage to fill the next one. On topic - excellent cider weather coming up, ambient temperature brewing all the way around here :super:


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## Deep End (3/4/13)

To further add to my last reply, I seriously have to get some more juice and kits, and get it going, I've only got about 60 bottles of cider left!! And I'm quickly developing the taste for it I can tell you. Might have to go shopping tommorow and see what other flavours and tastes I can come up with, although plain old apple is pretty damn tasty after a few months in the bottle, and the black currant ones a cracker too.


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## Deep End (3/4/13)

I'm hearing ya Bribie, its just too easy to get into. Never really got used to home made beer, not knocking it, and the kit n kilo has produced a few fine ales over the years. But home made cider creams anything I've ever paid good money for, where as I cant say the same for too many of my home made beers. Although I'm sure the grain crushers, mashers and boilers have greater success, but that just sounds like hard work to me.


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## Airgead (4/4/13)

Deep End said:


> I'm hearing ya Bribie, its just too easy to get into. Never really got used to home made beer, not knocking it, and the kit n kilo has produced a few fine ales over the years. But home made cider creams anything I've ever paid good money for, where as I cant say the same for too many of my home made beers. Although I'm sure the grain crushers, mashers and boilers have greater success, but that just sounds like hard work to me.


Just you wait till the bug really bites and you start picking, crushing and juicing your own apples (and even growing them). Makes AG brewing look like a picnic.

Cheers
Dave


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## Bribie G (4/4/13)

Stealing them is even more exciting. Ask any boy who grew up in the UK before Nintendo arrived.


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## Airgead (4/4/13)

Ahh... you see, unlike the lower orders, I have never had to resort to outright criminality to make my cider. I get given all my cider apples for free because I'm such a splendid chap. And because my missus makes a really nice quince jam that we trade.


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## Widowmaker92 (17/4/13)

Deep End said:


> Well I just mixed it all up, made it up to 21 litres, got an OG of 1.054, should give it a bit of bang by the time it gets down around 1.000 :drinks:


Mate, can i get you exactly what you put in your's, i'd like to give it a shot


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## Bribie G (17/4/13)

Just put down my latest today. Washed out the keg from the brew that blew last night, kegged the one waiting in the FV and had the new one away in around 20 mins all up. Being scrumpy it will be drinkable in an hour or so when the kegmate drags it down to 8 degrees.

12L of Coles Apple and 6L of Apple Blackcurrant, 750 of white sugar and just poured and stirred onto the yeastcake (from Black Rock). Compared to beer the FV contains only clean yeast which I stir up with a sterile spoon with the first 3L of juice, add sugar and dissolve, then pour the rest of the juice in and put the lid on. My cider FV is exactly 20L from BCF. Not cheap but brilliant for the job in hand as no krausen and minimal headspace.





OOps forgot to add nutrient, will do in the morning when I give it an aerate.


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## Deep End (17/4/13)

Widowmaker, I used a Brigalow cider kit, 4 litres of "berri", i think, apple, raspberry, strawberry and blackcurrant juice, 5 litres of just juice apple and blackcurrant juice (these were what was on special at the time). I used 8L of water to make up the kit, with 1.25kg of sugar and the juice, can yeast and nutrient and let her do its thing.


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## Widowmaker92 (24/4/13)

Thanks deepend, i laid down 6 days ago a 12 liters of aldi apple juice 11 liters of water and a brigalow kit with 500grams of dextrose. Strated at a SG of 1450 and it's down too 1050 so it seems to be going good


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## bum (25/4/13)

Bribie G said:


> Compared to beer the FV contains only clean yeast


And dead yeast and lazy yeast.


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## Milk-lizard84 (8/5/13)

Hey guys just wanted to ask a question in regards to bottling a cider with potential high alc content.

Just started my first cider after reading some posts on this thread.

Ingredients:
Brigalow cider can
Lalvin ec 1118 yeast and brigalow nutrient
6 liters apple
4.8 liters apple/ black current
Roughly 8 liters of water to bring it up to the 20 liter mark.
500g lactose 

My OG was 1.068.
Just wondering if it does ferment down to say about 1.000 will this be a problem if I'm using bottle conditioning?
Will I get bottle bombs?
Or am I being paranoid?
Thanks


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## Deep End (8/5/13)

Your being paranoid, heheh, potential alcohol has nothing to do with bottles exploding. 

As long as the fermentation goes ahead and you end up with a stable gravity reading over a few days, in the region of 1.000 it will be fine. Bottle bombs are caused by bottling before fermentation is complete; your brew still has some sugars left in it, then you carb it up with more sugar, you end up with geysers or bombs. 

So just make sure your fermentation is complete, by taking gravity readings over the course of a few days when you think it has finished, if you get 1.001, 1.001, 1.001 over three days it is safe to assume fermentation is complete, carb and bottle away.

If the readings are higher and slowly dropping over the course of the few days the brew is still working, give it a few more days and try again. I've got a cider thats been going for 22 days or so, was 1.006 two days ago, 1.002 yesterday, so it still has a bit to go, not much, but I imagine it will be bottled by the weekend.

Hope that helps

Mick


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## Milk-lizard84 (8/5/13)

Haha thanks deep end. I was just abit paranoid never having brewed something with such a high OG. Looking forward to the end result.
Never done a cider before so looking forward to it.


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## Deep End (8/5/13)

I"m loving the cider myself, cursing I tossed my second barrel, gunna have to get a few more soon, so I can up the production rate. This long fermenting one is tasting good out of the barrel, I think the low and slow ferment leaves more apple flavours, just a thought. 

Got cider, mead and two wines on the go at the moment, going to go get some apples soon and run em through my juicer and do a small batch in a demi of cider made from a fresh apple blend I have yet to decide on what it will contain. There is a roadside tree a few clicks away from home at the moment that is looking good for raiding, lots of small, ignored fruit that should have some interesting flavours I hope, hopefully nice and tart. 

Probably spoiled for choice with apples down here, seriously contemplating getting a few "cider apple" trees from a nursery down here and sticking them in the middle of my front lawn. LOL


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## Milk-lizard84 (8/5/13)

What sort of temps are you brewing your ciders at deep end?
I had a look at some info on the ec 1118 Yeast and it sounds like it has a pretty wide range in fermentation temps.


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## Milk-lizard84 (8/5/13)

What sort of temps are you brewing your ciders at deep end?
I had a look at some info on the ec 1118 Yeast and it sounds like it has a pretty wide range in fermentation temps.


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## Deep End (8/5/13)

In summer I try and keep it at 24-26c max, currently I am in the range of 16-18c, which I find is much better. I'm currently using the lid yeast off the Brigalow can which is a white wine yeast. Although I have been looking at some white labs and wyeast cider strains which I'm seriously considering investing in to see what difference it makes.
Also been looking at some semi dwarfing cider apple trees from a nursery down here, giving some though to setting up a micro orchard on an espalier system and giving the best part of my vegie garden the arse and filling it with a few cider apple varieties, but thats getting a bit serious aye LOL.


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## Milk-lizard84 (8/5/13)

Haha sounds like your pretty keen on this cider caper. I'm hoping to have a fermentation fridge up and running by the weekend so ill be able to have my cider sit at a lower level. It's at about 23 at the moment. I think I'm still ages away from actually growing my own apples. Not sure the land lord would appreciate it


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## Deep End (8/5/13)

Yea, I'd say I was fairly keen on my cider brewing I guess, haven't been at it for long. It seems to be the new trend though, the drinking of it anyway. I like the simplicity of it, yet it can still be complex...bit of an oxymoron. But it, in my opinion, is easier to make cider yourself from start to finish than it is beer or wine. Far easier to grow a few trees and run the fruit through a juicer etc than growing a field of grain and hops or maintaining vines and following all the time consuming procedures involved in winemaking. But you can still toy with yeasts, carbonation levels, tannins and acid levels, juice varieties etc to come out with varied end products.

Dont get me wrong though, I'm still buggering around with brigalow cans and a few litres of mass produced juice, but the idea is there to set myself up a few trees and take it that step further and make my own product. Dont have any aspirations of marketing it and joining the boutique brewing crowd though, just for my own and a few mates personal enjoyment. Fridge full of homemade cider, spit roast turning in the backyard sounds like a good weekend to me!!


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## Pickaxe (9/5/13)

Hey Deep End, wanted to ask you and others about thoughts on using Malt, spec grain and Hops with Cider. Is it something you or others have done. Manticle gave a great link to Graff :

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f81/graff-malty-slightly-hopped-cider-117117/

I'm interested if this could give a more complex cider as I can personally find some cider a bit "winey"? for want of a better word. Could be that I'm more a beer drinker at heart, but curious what toffee flavours from spec grain, sweetness from spec malt, or complex sugars from mash temps, or fruit flavours or aroma from hops could do?

Just curious as to what other cider lovers do?


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## Pickaxe (9/5/13)

Oh, and thanks for the recipe ideas. Just thinking about my first cider soon, you've got me excited as to the possibilites.


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## Deep End (9/5/13)

Yea, I really dont know much about grains or malts apart from what they are, I never got further than K&K beer brewing. I'm willing but not quite able yet to go the extra mile with my cider, but the plans are there. I spose its just a trial and error thing in the end, the human race wouldnt of got far if it wasn't for people experimenting.....or aliens landing and giving us technological advances, depends which school of thought you subscribe to. I like to think we did it own our own LOL 

But like I was saying you can only try and find out, at the end of the day if you find something you like to drink there cant be too much wrong with it. I brew probably more for the fun and interest side of it than the drinking, dont get me wrong the beverage is nice bonus at the end of the process. But I find myself brewing small batch things like meads and fruit wines just to see if I can do it, and what it turns out like, dont particularly like wine at all unless its in a good casserole or stew, but I like the process behind it. 

I'm starting to get a little carried away with my posting, happens as the hours pass by, but back to one flavour aspect your were asking about, I imagine using brown sugar or some other dark sugar; muscavado, might impart a caramel type flavour to a cider, honey, golden syrup, molasses, treacle, palm sugar. I imagine each one would leave its mark on a brew in some way, shape or form. Anyway me thinks I should go to sleep or something :blink:


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## Milk-lizard84 (22/5/13)

Hey just a quick question Deepend.
Just wondering what fg you got for your brigalow recipe? Mines sitting at about 1.010 at the moment after 2 weeks of fermenting.
Liking the taste of it so far so hopefully once bottled it'll get even better.
My reading had been about that for 2 days


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## Deep End (11/6/13)

They average 1.000 - 1.002 depending on tempreture before I bottle, I know its a bit late, but I ran out of internet for a month or so LOL


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