# Fresh Apple Juice cider with S-04 no added sugar - 6.12%?



## New_guy (28/2/13)

Have had 10.5 lt of fresh Apple Juice in fermenter with S-04 for 6 days - has had rapid ferment with constant bubbles through airlock
Only today is activity slowing

OG was 1.048
Specific Gravity today was 1.001! (first reading)
Is that right?
tasted pretty strong with obvious apple character but some other unusual taste

I used the calculator at http://pint.com.au/calculators/alcohol/


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## Bribie G (28/2/13)

Sounds good. I have a kit plus juice plus dex brew on the go at the moment and my OG was 1050 read by a refractometer. Assuming the brew gets down to zero or a tad less FG that should give me 6.5% ABV.

What juice did you use? I used Aldi apple juice which has an OG of 1044 which used alone would render about 5.5%

Yours sounds like jungle juice 

Edit: you didn't use cider yeast which I understand is much slower fermenting (I'm a cider virgin) but I guess that using an ale yeast you are getting beer-speed fermentation happening there.


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## Deep End (28/2/13)

If you bottled it with the prescribed amount of sugar it would be 6.41 % al/vol approx


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## New_guy (28/2/13)

Bribie G said:


> Sounds good. I have a kit plus juice plus dex brew on the go at the moment and my OG was 1050 read by a refractometer. Assuming the brew gets down to zero or a tad less FG that should give me 6.5% ABV.
> 
> What juice did you use? I used Aldi apple juice which has an OG of 1044 which used alone would render about 5.5%
> 
> ...


Cheers Mate - First batch of cider for me to - did a lot of reading on here and if I have any chance of getting the missus to drink it (thus putting up with 2 fermenters in the lounge room) its gotta be a bit sweet. I read that the s-04 wouldn't be as "efficient" as a cider or champagne yeast and generate a bit of residual sugar 

I got the juice at coles "Coles Finest Australian Cloudy Juice" It was the cheapestI could fine that was still fresh juice with no added whatever

I was going to add dex or possibly lactose but in the end went "au naturale" 

Want to have a crack at an apple / pear mix next to get the sweetness up 

I was hoping for something about 5%


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## New_guy (28/2/13)

Deep End said:


> If you bottled it with the prescribed amount of sugar it would be 6.41 % al/vol approx


 Thanks - ok heres's the dumb question what is the prescribed sugar? I do have a sugar dosing spoon for beer - is cider at the same ratios?


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## Deep End (28/2/13)

As far as I know, think its about 6gm sugar per longneck, I use carb drops myself. And also that brew might come down a few notches yet so keep taking readings aye.


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## New_guy (28/2/13)

Okay will do - kinda don't really want it to drop to much more , not really in the market for a 7% cider 
Is 6gm a long neck the same as beer ?


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## Deep End (28/2/13)

Yea, from what I know, its 8gm per litre which makes a 750ml bottle 6gms or two carbonation drops, beer and cider the same.


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## super_simian (1/3/13)

New_guy said:


> I read that the s-04 wouldn't be as "efficient" as a cider or champagne yeast and generate a bit of residual sugar.


AFAIK, without some serious abuse, all brewing/baking/winemaking yeasts will eat *all* of the simple sugars available in (apple) juice, from the wimpiest UK ale yeast to the most voracious lager yeast. Yeast doesn't "generate" residual sugar, it just leaves what it can't digest behind; as we would leave the bones from a side of ribs, for example. Some people would leave some of the meat surrounding the ribs, some would suck the bones dry, but none of us could digest the bones. Replace the rack of ribs with a hamburger patty however, and there isn't anything even the most feeble diner couldn't stomach, hence there's nothing left.


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## New_guy (1/3/13)

super_simian said:


> AFAIK, without some serious abuse, all brewing/baking/winemaking yeasts will eat *all* of the simple sugars available in (apple) juice, from the wimpiest UK ale yeast to the most voracious lager yeast. Yeast doesn't "generate" residual sugar, it just leaves what it can't digest behind;
> 
> I think we are on the same page here - when I said that one yeast was not as efficient as another I meant it would not be able to eat all the sugar thus residual sugar is present - generated was not the best word to use


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## New 2 Brew (1/3/13)

I'm going to put down a batch of apple/pear this weekend. I think it will be very similar to yours... s-04 and store bought juice. Im probably going to add lactose for some sweetness.


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## New_guy (1/3/13)

Tasting it when doing sg readings (1.001 today) pretty happy - fairly dry and some apple flavour - maybe the s04 imparts a slight ale flavour?


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## brettprevans (2/3/13)

Cider just like beer, actually more so, requires several weeks conditioning before its at peak drinking condition. Leave it a while.


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## New_guy (2/3/13)

Yeah patience is a virtue - will do


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## super_simian (4/3/13)

New_guy said:


> > AFAIK, without some serious abuse, all brewing/baking/winemaking yeasts will eat *all* of the simple sugars available in (apple) juice, from the wimpiest UK ale yeast to the most voracious lager yeast. Yeast doesn't "generate" residual sugar, it just leaves what it can't digest behind;
> 
> 
> I think we are on the same page here - when I said that one yeast was not as efficient as another I meant it would not be able to eat all the sugar thus residual sugar is present - generated was not the best word to use


Yeah, you're almost there. The catch is that the sugars left behind are more complex than glucose and fructose (or sucrose, maltose and dextose FWIW) and since unfermented apple juice contains SFA in the way of higher sugars, even the laziest yeast will take it down to 1.000 or perhaps even lower!


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## Phoney (4/3/13)

citymorgue2 said:


> Cider just like beer, actually more so, requires several weeks conditioning before its at peak drinking condition. Leave it a while.


See I've always read that on here and with my last cider paid special attention on how it aged. I honestly didnt think it was any better after 2 months in the keg than it was after a week or two. Obviously it's impossible to do a side by side comparison, but going by memory I really couldnt spot a big difference. 

I presume kegging a cider and keeping it at 2C would have the same conditioning effect as crash chilling an uncarbonated cider in secondary for the same amount of time yes?


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## New_guy (4/3/13)

super_simian said:


> Yeah, you're almost there. The catch is that the sugars left behind are more complex than glucose and fructose (or sucrose, maltose and dextose FWIW) and since unfermented apple juice contains SFA in the way of higher sugars, even the laziest yeast will take it down to 1.000 or perhaps even lower!


Yeah you got that right - bottled at 1.001! 
The sugars thing is interesting - do pears contain more of the complex sugars then?


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## New_guy (4/3/13)

How do you calculate the alcohol % when you add lactose late in the ferment cycle? It was 1.001 then with 500g of lactose in 10.5lt (mixed up in 500ml of hot water) bumped it up to 1.018


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## stakka82 (4/3/13)

Assuming the volume of cooled boiling water u added the lactose in is negligible, the alc% will be the same. If u added a litre, minus 10% from the initial alc% etc. The lactose itself will not add to the alcohol as its not fermentable, but the water you add it in will dilute the cider.

Edit: just realised you added 500ml, so drop about 5% from what it would have been. If it was 6% you are now looking at probably 5.7%.


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## New_guy (8/3/13)

Cheers


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## super_simian (9/3/13)

New_guy said:


> Yeah you got that right - bottled at 1.001!
> The sugars thing is interesting - do pears contain more of the complex sugars then?


Sort of - Google sorbitol and be wowed with information.


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