# Squat 23 And 12 Litre Kegs



## big d (23/3/06)

Latest grain and grape newsletter has these brand new 23 and 12 litre kegs for sale.No price but they look the goods.

cheers
big d

View attachment 6422


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## T.D. (23/3/06)

They look like the same ones in the link below, which have corresponding prices attached, so that should give you some idea on the G&G price. $165 is not all that cheap for the 12L version, but I have seen a few *2nd hand* 3gal kegs go for more than that on ebay.

http://www.mikesbrew.com.au/keg_sets.htm


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## Kai (23/3/06)

I think dicko has one of the 23L ones of them, but it's a bit hard to tell from that pic. If so, they look the duck's nuts all right.


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## Ross (23/3/06)

big d said:


> Latest grain and grape newsletter has these brand new 23 and 12 litre kegs for sale.No price but they look the goods.
> 
> cheers
> big d
> ...



BigD,

They are the kegs designed (with a little help from yours truly) & imported by my local hbs here in Brizzy - They are great kegs where height rather than width is an issue - slightly larger lid as well, which makes for easier cleaning (still use same seals). the 23L is $20 more than the 12L. I'm hoping to slowly switch mine over if I can get a reasonable price on my current cornys...

cheers Ross


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## Linz (23/3/06)

Dave at Botany home brew has a couple of the 12 lt jobbies last time I was there


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## PistolPatch (23/3/06)

I have two of these 'Brew-Bratt' kegs. Height is 47cm (add at least 5cm for disconnect) with a 27cm circular footprint. ABout $180 and any HBS that sells Morgans can get 'em. This was the only solution for me. Brilliant kegs. One criticsim is that the inner lip is sharp so be careful not to decapitate your arm when cleaning or head when checking it's clean.

Haven't written an essay yet on how to post pictures so I'm crap at it! If you want to have a look at my fridge with the kegs check out Post #4 here (Post #1 shows my first ever attempt at posting 145MB pictures!) The beers on the top shelf can be replaced with 2 more cubes. I think seeing my set-up gave Ross a few ideas for his bar - LOL


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## Rex (25/3/06)

big d said:


> Latest grain and grape newsletter has these brand new 23 and 12 litre kegs for sale.No price but they look the goods.
> [post="115877"][/post]​



Looks interesting! How much are they? and do G&g have them in stock? Might pay them a visit tomorrow...


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## PistolPatch (25/3/06)

Crikey! I was just using the Ross Method then on one of these 23 litre kegs and the base suddenly popped from concave to convex. Scared the hell out of me! Hasn't happened before and I was using the recommended pressure of 300kpa.

I'm off to work - might be safer there!


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## Jye (25/3/06)

> the base suddenly popped from concave to convex



 do the kegs have a max pressure stamped on them?


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## Jerry (25/3/06)

PP,

I've had the swing lock thingy on the top of my kegs occaissionally pop up when gassing the keg and that scares me. But if something like that happened to me I'd be needing to change my pants.  

Gave me a good laugh though. Its always funnier when it happens to other people.  

Cheers
Scott


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## dicko (25/3/06)

Kai said:


> I think dicko has one of the 23L ones of them, but it's a bit hard to tell from that pic. If so, they look the duck's nuts all right.
> [post="115929"][/post]​



Yes, I grabbed a couple of these 23 litre jobs from Holden Hill Bill.
I have not commissioned them yet.
They do have a bigger lid but I do beg to differ with Ross regarding the seals being the same, because mine certainly aren't.
The story I got was that they are made in Taiwan ( I think ) and are brought into Aus by Morgan's Brewing.
If they prove to be OK I will be able to fit four of them in a chest freezer (read keg fridge) as the squat shape will allow them to be stored one above the other.
I plan to get rid of my 48 litre soda kegs as while they are fine to lift in and out of a fridge, you need to be Dean Lukin to lift them into a freezer.

Cheers


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## Ross (25/3/06)

dicko said:


> They do have a bigger lid but I do beg to differ with Ross regarding the seals being the same, because mine certainly aren't.
> The story I got was that they are made in Taiwan ( I think ) and are brought into Aus by Morgan's Brewing.
> 
> Cheers
> [post="116320"][/post]​



Dicko,

They may come fitted with different seals, but the standard corny keg seals certainly fit them & these are all that are available so far for replacements.

Also, they are made in China - not Taiwan & are brought into Australia by Quality Homebrew. 

cheers Ross...


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## dicko (25/3/06)

Ross said:


> dicko said:
> 
> 
> > They do have a bigger lid but I do beg to differ with Ross regarding the seals being the same, because mine certainly aren't.
> ...



Hi Ross

I was in no way being critical re the seals and I was only repeating what I was told at the point of sale re the manufacturer / importer.

I found that you could stretch the corny seal to fit the chinese job but because of the corny seal being thicker in section it was very tight to re install the lid and it tends to cause the legs on the lid to want to splay to the sides.
If I need seals for mine I will go to one of the suppliers of O rings and get some that will be closer to the profile.

I am concerned with Pistols comment about the bottom of the chinese keg popping out of shape when he applied pressure to it.

Do they have a pressure rating?

A picture paints a thousand words,

The o ring on the left is a corny and the one on the right is from the chinese keg.


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## Ross (25/3/06)

dicko said:


> I am concerned with Pistols comment about the bottom of the chinese keg popping out of shape when he applied pressure to it.
> 
> Do they have a pressure rating?
> 
> [post="116338"][/post]​



I've spoken to the importer - He thinks they are rated to 60 psi (414kpa I think), but I'll get confirmation. Apparently this isnt the first one to "pop". Apparently Morgans are looking at making a stand for the popped keg to sit on, so it doesn't wobble. They reckon it's fine after it's popped. Can't say I would be too happy...

Cheers Ross


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## big d (25/3/06)

Nothing against the chinese manufacturer but if one happened to pop right open then look out.Who would be liable.Do these kegs have to meet certain Australian standards etc.
Would hate to hear of an unfortunate homebrewer who comes unstuck.Certainly hope they have an appropriatly rated safety valve installed.

Cheers
Big D


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## dicko (25/3/06)

Ross said:


> dicko said:
> 
> 
> > I am concerned with Pistols comment about the bottom of the chinese keg popping out of shape when he applied pressure to it.
> ...



I wont be to pleased if mine "pops",in fact I would be looking for a refund.
Big D's comment on safety is a valid one.
Being manufactured in China would mean that the item would not necessarily have to meet any Australian Standard.
The cost of manufacture would be very low so maybe the importer might insist on a thicker S/Steel sheeting and testing to full pressure prior to importing another batch.
Then, what should happen is that all these kegs should be recalled and replaced with a suitable unit or as I said above, a refund should apply.
I would like Pistolpatch to post a picture of the exploded keg.
I'm sure that this will go further than Morgans making a stand to suit the faulty units.
Cheers from a not now so happy kegger :angry:


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## Jye (25/3/06)

I wonder what the internal volume of a popped keg is.... everyone may be doing it so they can have more beer


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## sam (25/3/06)

Having briefly compared both the standard Corny kegs and the new Morgans kegs, I think that the Cornys are a much higher quality keg. The steel seems thinner and the safety valve looks crap (and doesn't seem to be suited to the keg given the base blowing out) on the Morgans.

Hearing about the base popping out, that's just bad. I think it's good that there is another alternative for kegging, but a quality product not only lasts longer and is more reliable, but is safer.

My 2c

Cheers,

Sam


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## dicko (25/3/06)

sam said:


> Having briefly compared both the standard Corny kegs and the new Morgans kegs, I think that the Cornys are a much higher quality keg. The steel seems thinner and the safety valve looks crap (and doesn't seem to be suited to the keg given the base blowing out) on the Morgans.
> 
> Hearing about the base popping out, that's just bad. I think it's good that there is another alternative for kegging, but a quality product not only lasts longer and is more reliable, but is safer.
> 
> ...



Hi Sam,
I have applied the maximum pressure to my "cornys" and the valve doesn't blow off either, so I assume that the "corny" can take more pressure that can be delivered by the co2 bottle and the co2 regulator.
I have had another look at the "chinesey" and this problem may be fixed by shaping and welding a piece of flat stainless steel on its edge into the dimple at the bottom of the keg on the outside. 
While I am no Mechanical engineer I recon that this would be a simple fix in production.
Im sure Ross will be onto this with some good results as soon as he recovers from Batz's Birthday Bash. (lucky buggar)
Cheers


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## PistolPatch (26/3/06)

Just got home & thought I better check back here to see if it was safe to sleep in close proximity to above-mentioned keg.

*Jye* No pressure rating stamped on the keg. This sounds a little suss to me. All it has is a sticker (which I could quickly reproduce on a bubble-jet) saying, "AS Pressure SPAC TESTED 9001"

*Jerry* I usually apply a little pressure first to ensure lid is sealed. This time I forgot and there was some leakage (30ml) then the seal popped into place then, 'boom.' Was I worried? My thinking is a little slow at present so I thought, 'That's weird,' and kept shaking the keg until target pressure was reached. Two minutes later I thought, 'That's not weird, that's 'ken frightening.' Then I quickly ran away to work.

*big d* As I was one of the first purchasers, I wouldn't like to be the first to experience 'Kerboom.' 'Boom,' is enough for me. And, as you say, what's the go with the safety valve? Surely this should go before a keg pops?

*dicko, Sam* I'll be ringing HBS on Monday to discuss a refund/solution. They are thinner kegs for sure but until now, never thought twice about it. All else about them is great. Will have a bash at photos in the morn but my camera is dodgy as well. Should be good enough though. I really needed this size keg and thought that buying new was just an investment.

*Ross* Before I bought the kegs, I asked if they could be stacked. I was told that they were bringing out collars to make them stackable. Hope they're not telling us now that the collars are for popped kegs! The keg now sits 5mm higher and is therefotre useless to me - yep, my space constraints are that tight! The best bit though Ross, is that it has that crappy dark beer in it that I was going to give to Macca anyway!

What a shame. Apart from this, the kegs have been perfect for me.

Photos tomorrow.... (Note to Self: Re-do all the searches you have already done on posting and re-sizing pictures. Take notes this time.)

EDIT

*PICTURES* Having some trouble posting the pics but here are the 2 that Dreamboat waws able to get a glimpse of about an hour ago! Will try posting some more below.

View attachment Normal_Base_Above.bmp

View attachment Popped_Base_Above.bmp


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## dreamboat (26/3/06)

Certainly has popped out there PP..... would be practically useless if you can no longer stand it up without having to worry.
I would imagine you will have no problem getting your sheckels back from the supplier, but it creates some uncertainlty in the market for these things (read "how long before this topic goes the way of the hop bulk buy") and also in your own mind as to whether you can trust these things. 
Any volunteers to try to burst one?
I can get the pressure test equipment from work (used for pressure testing water pipelines).... just set the pressure and plug it in!



dreamboat


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## dreamboat (26/3/06)

Wow - that was quick!
Post deleted after less than eight minutes on line on a Sunday morning.


dreamboat


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## PistolPatch (26/3/06)

*Dreamboat* Thanks for the PM help with getting the pics up. (I was having quite a nightmare!) As to the pressure testing, I might even email Morgan's rather than going via my HBS and I'll be certain to ask if we can use this keg for your explosive idea!

*More Pictures* Digital camera has totally failed so have had to use phone. Resized them but have only got them down to 400k using Microsoft Picture Editor. 

View attachment Normal_Base.bmp

View attachment Popped_Base.bmp



Note: If someone writes a really clear topic on posting pics or can direct me to one, I will pay them a million dollars.


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## PistolPatch (26/3/06)

This last photo is of the keg from above. As you can see, they are quite a neat little keg so it would be great to see them succeed. As dreamboat mentioned though, when you're dealing with presure, trust is a very important issue. I certainly won't be force carbonating at high pressure any more.

View attachment Keg_Top.bmp


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## Beerpig (26/3/06)

Pressure vessels that deform & not certified! ................... bad, bad, bad!

Not to mention extremely dangerous & illegal

Report them to the consumer watchdogs & get your money back

Cheers


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## dicko (26/3/06)

dreamboat said:


> Any volunteers to try to burst one?
> I can get the pressure test equipment from work (used for pressure testing water pipelines).... just set the pressure and plug it in!
> 
> 
> ...



Hi Dreamboat,
I would imagine that the plastic tubing to the disconnect and the barbed fitting would "part company" before the keg should burst or even pop.
This is obviously not so!



> Wow - that was quick!
> Post deleted after less than eight minutes on line on a Sunday morning.
> 
> 
> dreamboat



We are now all wondering what you said?

Cheers


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## PistolPatch (26/3/06)

> Wow - that was quick!
> Post deleted after less than eight minutes on line on a Sunday morning.
> 
> 
> dreamboat





> We are now all wondering what you said?



That was my fault Dicko. Dreamboat managed to see my first attempt at posting the pics which I deleted a few minutes later as some of them didn't upload correctly. That's when he made the post above. I sent him a PM explaining my repeated failed attempts at posting the pics. He immediately and kindly replied with the correct advice and even offered to post the pics for me. Good on him for ending my ordeal! (Just sorry I couldn't get the images smaller or to actually appear in the post despite a good 25 minute search!)

Cheers PP


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## als_world (26/3/06)

> Note: If someone writes a really clear topic on posting pics or can direct me to one, I will pay them a million dollars.



PP, Bitmap picture (.BMP) are not a good format for internet posting, as they cannot be easily compressed. If your phone or digicam is producing .bmp files, you should open them in your picture editor and resave them as JPEG (.JPG) files. Doing that alone will reduce the size by at least a quarter usually.

If you are using Windows XP, you can do this with Paint (File-> Save As -> Save as type -> JPEG). 

If you want to then easily resize your JPEG images without having to use the resize functions in another paint program, download the "Image Resizer" program from http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloa...ppowertoys.mspx.

This will allow you to right-click on an image using explorer and select a new size. For forum posts, Small (640x480) will be fine. This should make your file size around 50-60KBytes, which is much more managable and able to be viewed on dialup connections. The quality at this size is also fine for screen viewed images unless you want to show very small details.

I've reattached one of your photos after doing exactly this. The file size has gone from 400+ K down to about 25K. File size is 16x smaller, but quality is pretty much the same.

Also, using JPEG alows "inline" viewing on AHB, whereas BMP files need to be opened before you can see the image.

Cheers,

Alan.

Edit: Added bit about inline images.


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## dreamboat (26/3/06)

PP... I am not so sure that attempting to burst a keg is actually the best idea.
What would be useful however would be to ensure that the keg can hold, say 500KPa ok.
The test rig actually forces water into the vessel and increases the pressure that way, which means that if it should actually burst, it is in a much safer fashion than if it was filled with gas of some sort.


Cheers
dreamboat


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## PistolPatch (26/3/06)

Al. Thank you so much for taking the time and trouble to write the above. Hopefully your info will find it's way into POL's Newbie thread. Between you and Dreamboat, all is clear now.

Was just joking about blowing the keg up, Dreamboat. I thought that you'd do the above experiment first and _then_ blow it up!  Well, it would be nice to know just how far they would go before becoming lethal! I will though, do my best to see if the keg can be acquired for a pressure test.

Thanks to you both. PP


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## normell (27/3/06)

Also there is a free program, "JPEGCOMPRESS"


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## BrissyBrew (27/3/06)

Pressure testing in the manufacture process can be a real PITFA. Although it does give some of the guys in the workshop some excitment for the afternoon, especially if they rate them for 1/2 of kaboom. Stage one, pressurise until release valve is spewing out gas. Stage 2 (here starts the fun bit) remove release valve pressurise until keg explodes. Rate keg 1/2 of explosion pressure, or below distortion (you can find that out at the releif valve stage.

I note the complaint about the kegs not being stamped. Stamping produces a week spot. So no stamping is a good thing, especially if you claim the steel is thinner than a corny keg. Maybe they should stamp the handles or something instead.

It looks like these kegs are not going to explode but are not shaped to take pressure without distorsion. The dipple on the bottom to get a flat surface to sit the keg on , is going to have to fight against pressure so it does not surprise me it is the first to go. Early warning device maybe.


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## snookums (27/3/06)

I have one of the 12L versions. I haven't applied any direct CO2 pressure to it yet, but it does have a naturally-carbonated witbier in it and nothing's happened yet.

I'll be keeping a close eye on it from now on (well, not too close!).


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## PistolPatch (27/3/06)

Excellent information BrissyBrew!

*Update:* Just spoke to my LHBS and he said that they are now issuing leaflets with the kegs saying that they are not to be pressurised above 35-40PSI (260-280kpa).

I just had a look at my reg then and the HBS has marked 350kpa to force carbonate. I may have well been up around here in prior force carbonations and couldn't honestly say that I didn't hit 320 on Saturday.

LOL Snookums, and I forgot Jerry from way before! However, I'm pretty sure we can still stand next to them without going :unsure:....

*If You Do Have One of These Kegs...* I asked Ross for some advice on force carbonating them as personally, I reckon they are excellent kegs and I certainly wish to keep using mine. He suggested that I could still use his method of forced carbonation but drop the pressure to 200kpa and rock for two minutes.

This seems to fit in with BrissyBrew's comments and the manufacturer's new recommendations so I'm happy with that. I'll actually probably go with 250.

P.S. I pushed the point about being allowed to blow my keg up but I won't get any answer until Thursday. Exciting stuff! :lol:


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## Jye (27/3/06)

Hey PP,

Try just setting your reg to serving pressure (assuming you have a balanced system) and shake your keg for 5ish minutes, this works just as well and there is no chance of over carbonating and popped kegs.


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## dicko (27/3/06)

PistolPatch said:


> Excellent information BrissyBrew!
> 
> *Update:* Just spoke to my LHBS and he said that they are now issuing leaflets with the kegs saying that they are not to be pressurised above 35-40PSI (260-280kpa).
> 
> [post="116644"][/post]​



Issuing a leaflet is hardly the fix on a safety issue.

What if someones guage is incorrect?

What if a child turns the knob on the guage?

What if, in a limited space, someone is connecting / disconnecting a QD and it pops and jambs his / her hand in a restricted space.

Come on now, this is a manufacturer / importer problem and should be dealt with at that level.

I would imagine by now that the importer is fully aware of this situation and by rights all the suppliers / retailers should have been notified as to a more suitable course of action to remedy the situation.

Leaflet hahahahahahah!

Cheers


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## PistolPatch (27/3/06)

Thanks *Jye.* I actually didn't realise that you could do that. I will look forward to trying that on my next brew. (Could be one problem though Jye. As I have only 1m of beer line, I suppose we can safely say that my system is slightly unbalanced! Will put this on my, 'to do,' list!)

*dicko* Very valid comments. Some of the posibilities you mentioned I didn't even think of as I have no kids about. It would be great to hear back from the AHB explosives experts as to what they think a keg popping at 325 would explode at.

I had started to think, dicko, that there is a long way between popping and exploding but this could be because I have a vested interest in these kegs working. (If they don't, all my planning has gone to sh*t!) So, _I_ would also like to know, if a keg pops at 320, will it explode at 5,6,7,800 etc.? Thanks mate.


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## dicko (27/3/06)

PistolPatch said:


> Thanks *Jye.*
> 
> *dicko* Very valid comments. Some of the posibilities you mentioned I didn't even think of as I have no kids about. It would be great to hear back from the AHB explosives experts as to what they think a keg popping at 325 would explode at.
> 
> ...



Hi PP,

With my limited knowledge of consumer laws, I was under the impression that if you were sold an item that is not suitable for its intended use then a refund or recall would be automatic.
I would imagine that a keg that "grows" in height after you have used it, falls roughly into this category, considering that the only reason you bought them (and including me for that matter) was that their height fitted within the internal constraints of our respective serving fridges.
When I purchased mine I wasn't told that they may grow in stature, or, not to apply certain pressures.
I would like to think that the importers know about this problem and are about to reply with an acceptable solution.

Cheers


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## PistolPatch (27/3/06)

[EDIT: Just doing a morning post check and am unsure if the following is relevant for you or not. All I'll say, is that even if your keg has not popped, you could still get a refund as you bought it with the understanding that it would hold a given pressure without deforming. Maybe this last sentence is more useful than the 50 that follow!]

You are absolutely correct dicko. With only minor exceptions, you, the purchaser, are entitled to a refund, a repair, or a replacement. This is _your_ choice, not the sellers.

For example, I bought an air conditioner 11 months ago and after countless contacts, (I'm stupidly tolerant and polite) I actually rang the wholesalers. I asked for a completely new unit and he said, "Why do you think you can get a new unit?" For him to say this is actually illegal and defintiley should not be said to PistolPatch when he is over-tired!

Everyone does it though.

I said to him, "Come on mate, you have to be joking. You know the law and I know the law." (Swear words have been deleted.)

I actually then hung up on him. (As I said this had been going on for 11 months.) I then immediaiately sent a fax pointing out the illegality of his comment and gave them 7 days to replace my air con.

It came immediately.

My digital camera just carked it. I know when I take it back to the retailer next month when I go to Sydney (where I bought it) that he'll say, "OK. Leave it with us and we'll send it in for repair and you'll get it back in 4-6 weeks." I will say, "No! Give me money!" (He's a nice guy so I will actually not even give him that opportuinity. I'll say, "Look, I know I can get my money back but do you have a better camera. If so, I'll buy it and pay you the difference.)

Sorry dicko, I'm slightly off-topic, but, as you say, if you have bought these kegs and want a refund, follow the above advice. They do not have a legal leg to stand on.

Sorry for my ramble! So, dicko, you have these kegs as well?


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## Fingerlickin_B (27/3/06)

PistolPatch said:


> Just spoke to my LHBS and he said that they are now issuing leaflets with the kegs saying that they are not to be pressurised above 35-40PSI (260-280kpa).



OMG, so they are made of thinner material than an aerosol can are they?

I feel for anyone who has bought these things...I'll be telling everyone I know NOT TO BUY THEM! :blink: 

PZ.


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## fifteenbeerslater (28/3/06)

The pressure releif valve should bolw off gas at a factory predetirmed pressure say 60 psi well before there is any distortion to the pressue vessel (keg). It would be simple for the factory to down grade the rating by installing a pressure relief valve at say 40 psi, this should overcome the problem of over pressure. 
Cheers 15BL :beer:


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## dicko (28/3/06)

Hi PP,

I was hoping that this problem may be sorted out at this level and the results / decision / outcome may be in time, posted here on this forum. From past experiences I would imagine that most retailers would know of this problem.

"Bad news within the brewing community usually spreads quicker than VD".

I am in the unfortunate position that I live 600 klms from the retailer and as such I just can't pop in (pardon the pun) after work.
I was also hoping that the importer/ distributor or even the manufacturer might come up with a solution rather than money back, as the concept of these kegs being 23 litre and squat in height suit my plans for a new bar kegerator (read converted freezer).
BTW I have spoken to Bill from Brewmaker at Holden Hill and he is more than happy to give me a refund.

Cheers


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## sintax69 (28/3/06)

fifteenbeerslater that was what i was thinking as I read all these threads change the releif valve then you pressurize till the valve goes hiss then shake the [email protected]# out of it easy and no beach ball kegs

Then again if the kegs are made to such a high quality then relief valve may be on par with the rest of the unit


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## PistolPatch (28/3/06)

As this size keg has so many advantages for me (see the last 2 pics in Post #1 of this thread), I certainly have a desire for them to succeed! For the moment, I will get my popped keg replaced and manage my kegs according to the manufacturer's 'new' instructions.

Hopefully, the manufacturers will do as you have suggested and simply change the pressure valve. That seems a simple solution that would entirely solve the problem.

However, all of the above has really made me wonder about any type of keg. From now on, I would like to know the answer to the following 2 questions, for any type of keg...

1. What pressure will the vessel explode at? (Whether it be corny's or Brew Bratts?)

Let's assume the answer above is 100PSI. This means, according to BrissyBrew, that it will deform at 50PSI. If so,

2. At what pressure then should the release valve activate?

The reason I want to know the above is because of the valid points dicko mentioned in Post #36. (And dicko, your pun was fun in #42!) Having an answer to these 2 questions will let us know what type of release valve to fit to a keg. More importantly the answer to Q1 should tell us what type of regulator to use.

Either a regulator or a release valve might fail. For both of them to fail though would be rare. I am trying to summarise safe practices of keg use here and I think it boils down to...

1. Know what pressure your keg will explode at.
2. Ensure that your regulator does not approach this pressure to within, let's say, 25%/50% - I don't know? (Surely it should be mandatory for the reg to not even approach the explosive pressure of a given vessel??? I've certainly just assumed this.)
3. Regularly test your pressure valve by exceeding it's pressure and ensuring that it activates. If it doesn't buy a new one immediately.

The above sounds sensible to me and, after dicko's comments, it would be nice to know that a child or someone who is a little blind cannot fiddle around with a reg and blow everyone up. Is this sensible?


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## als_world (28/3/06)

> However, all of the above has really made me wonder about any type of keg. From now on, I would like to know the answer to the following 2 questions, for any type of keg...
> 
> 1. What pressure will the vessel explode at? (Whether it be corny's or Brew Bratts?)
> 
> ...



PP, I just had a quick check of my cornies and reg. Hope this info is useful:

- Every cornie has a stamp stating "max working pressure 130PSI"
- Every cornie also has a NSF certification stamp (http://www.nsf.org/)
- Every cornie keg has a serial number

Therefore, you could reasonably assume that each keg is traceable and that new cornie original relief valves should operate reliably at 130psi (or within tolerance). I imagine the absolute max pressure would be 2-3 times this. I would think any specification would say that deformation should not occur at or below the max working pressure.



> 1. Know what pressure your keg will explode at.
> 2. Ensure that your regulator does not approach this pressure to within, let's say, 25%/50% - I don't know? (Surely it should be mandatory for the reg to not even approach the explosive pressure of a given vessel??? I've certainly just assumed this.)
> 3. Regularly test your pressure valve by exceeding it's pressure and ensuring that it activates. If it doesn't buy a new one immediately.



My reg (Harris 601) maxes out at 90PSI, so no chance of testing the pressure release valve. Having said that, it is possible I guess for a reg to fail "open circuit" and allow the full cylinder pressure (800PSI) to the keg.

The design of cornie relief valves seems to be "fail safe" rather than "fail secure", so I'm not too worried about it failing, but it would be prudent to check occasionally.

Cheers,

Alan.


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## Ross (4/4/06)

Sorry for the late reply, but been snowed under with work from my new "hop venture".
Went to my local hbs to pick up grain for 4 brews this week & asked for an update.
Apparently it is now Morgans that import these kegs. They were initialy designed/imported by my local hbs, but Morgans have taken over the rights. So Morgans are the Company that need to resolve this problem.
I'm informed that the initial kegs imported, came with the pressure warning on an included "how to use" leaflet - though I can't comment on what Morgans have been including with their imports, as I don't know.
I believe Morgans are looking at a base for the kegs they have already imported & it's been suggested to them, to pop all the kegs & sell with the stand. I don't know if this is the way they'll go, but I think it's the most likely outcome. Obviously if the keg & stand don't fit your fridge, you won't be buying one.
My understanding is, that this problem will be overcome before the next shipment with a design change - but again that's down to Morgan's now.
I'm sure Morgan's wouldn't hesitate to refund disastified customers; but using the keg properly within it's design limitations, I believe it's a good product.
No affiliation whatsoever etc etc....

cheers Ross


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## dicko (4/4/06)

Ross said:


> Sorry for the late reply, but been snowed under with work from my new "hop venture".
> Went to my local hbs to pick up grain for 4 brews this week & asked for an update.
> Apparently it is now Morgans that import these kegs. They were initialy designed/imported by my local hbs, but Morgans have taken over the rights. So Morgans are the Company that need to resolve this problem.
> I'm informed that the initial kegs imported, came with the pressure warning on an included "how to use" leaflet - though I can't comment on what Morgans have been including with their imports, as I don't know.
> ...



Hi Ross,
Thanks for getting back to us all.
I have tried to talk to Morgans on another matter some time ago without much success, I might add.
The keg on a stand wont be any good to me, however, when I am in Adelaide next I will go and see my supplier and see if Morgans will swap the suspect kegs for the new and modified ones.
As I said in a previous post, my supplier will refund, however, the concept of the keg is ideal for HB.
ie; Low in height, 23 litre capacity etc etc.
Cheers and thanks once again,


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## PistolPatch (4/4/06)

Like Ross, I've been a little flat out with a wedding, work etc., Although, many hours of this were spent drinking brews in 2 of the above Brew Bratt Kegs from my new esky 'party keg cooler,' which worked unbelievably well for 13 hours!

General Update - Haven't had time to even ring HBS re refund on keg. Will do on Thursday when the head guy is on.

Alan - Thanks very much for the info. I agree that one should reasonably expect a pressure releif valve to blow somewhere between operating pressure and deformation pressure favouring highly the lower side. (My regs pretty close to yours by the way - 85.)

Ross - I thought it was Morgans! Ah! I can safely say that your HBS would have transferred rights to Morgan's before importation as mine were off the first container. As for the stand, that is not going to wash with me as I know they were originally thought of so as the kegs could be stacked. As I mentioned above, the stand's, 'new use,' is simply that. Also, who wants a keg that they can't stand up without sitting it on a stand? Which leads to....

Dicko - I'm going to ask for an immediate replacement of my deformed keg and furthermore ask for 2 new replacements once the design/pressure valve problem is resolved. I certainly didn't receive a leaflet and my HBS guy actually marked my reg (bought on the same day) at 350.

I may attempt contacting Morgan's via email regarding this whole problem before Thursday if I get in the mood. If there's a response I will post back here straight away.

If they can solve this problem, they'll have a great little product. It holds a full brew, is easy to clean and fits in a lot of places that a corny won't.


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## PistolPatch (6/4/06)

UPDATE: Finally had a chance to drop into HBS re popped keg. YOu're going to love this!

Apparently the problem is easily solved by using the heel of your foot to push the keg back to its original concave position! Oh! And the relief valve is set for 90PSI!

I am too stunned to make further comment.


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## Guest Lurker (6/4/06)

Oh dear, have they heard of metal fatigue?


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## BrissyBrew (7/4/06)

They are many months off (still in the design phase) but I have kegs in the pipeline as well. 

What a "heal" hey.


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## PistolPatch (7/4/06)

Hi there Brissy. Can't believe you just posted here. I was just thinking about how on earth you are meant to use the heel of your foot to push the keg bottom back in and this triggered me to sign onto AHB. Yours was the top thread!

Be damn nice to see another keg on the market. Can't wait!

I think the features of the Brew-Bratt kegs that interest me are them being short and squat and holding 23 litres if that's any help.

Their, 'How To Use,' Brochure they have put out is actually well-written so see if you can get a copy (I have no scanner.) It even contains some humour on what to do if your keg empties too quickly. They advise...

"Slow down drinking habits, decrease social circle and make more beer."

What do you think of the 90PSI relief valve?


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## PistolPatch (25/5/06)

I ended up contacting Lyndsay at Quality Home Brew Supplies and he replaced the keg straight away. I meant to post this before but forgot.

Yesterday I ran into the guy whose company brought the kegs in. Gained a lot of info from him that may be of interest...

As I mentioned above, they have distributed the, 'how to use' brochure to existing owners. I had missed out as I was in the first order. The next lot they bring in will have a new pressure relief valve (lower pressure) as well as a star shaped base.

The wall thickness of these kegs is thicker than the US cornies but less than the Australian cornies, therefore the explosive rating is somewhere between the 2 - can't remember the exact figure. The concave bottom was used to avoid having to vulcanise a rubber base to the kegs to lower the cost. The star shaped pattern on the new kegs will strengthen this weakness but they will keep the force carbonation recommendations the same.

Cheers
PP


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## Pumpy (19/10/06)

I would really like to purchase a 12 litre keg with the star shaped base but they are $160 at my local brew shop this seems very expensive , has anyone found a reasonably priced source for this product 

Pumpy


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## JasonY (19/10/06)

Pumpy said:


> I would really like to purchase a 12 litre keg with the star shaped base but they are $160 at my local brew shop this seems very expensive , has anyone found a reasonably priced source for this product
> 
> Pumpy



If thats for a brand new one then it sounds not too bad given they seem to be going for $100+ on ebay and the like?

Can't help on the cheaper side of things unfortunately ... seen the old ones for $135 at beertech in Perth but if you can get a new one for $25 more then I would go for that.


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## Hogan (24/10/06)

Just bought a new one of these 23 lt Morgans squat kegs at my local HBS. 

The lid is oval as opposed to what appears to be a round one on PP's photo. 

The base is still the same - no star to stop the pop-out. 

Bit concerned about what appears to be a repair job on one of the bottom rim welds and some oxidation/ rusting of that particular spot on the inside. 

Any views on this or is it to be expected from chinese manufacture. 


Cheers, Hoges.


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## Cortez The Killer (28/10/07)

Has anyone got the 12 litre brew brat keg dimensions?

Can't seem to find it anywhere

Cheers


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## Cortez The Killer (7/11/07)

In case anyone wants to know

The kegs are 280mm in diameter and about the same height + the disconnects

Cheers



Cortez The Killer said:


> Has anyone got the 12 litre brew brat keg dimensions?
> 
> Can't seem to find it anywhere
> 
> Cheers


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