# 100L 1V Internal Rims Build - Advice Sought



## pirateagenda (18/9/17)

I am planning on upgrading my gas fired BIAB setup to an internal rims style electrical setup. Hoping to seek some advice on the following issues, and sources for equipment, as most of the threads I have searched are quite old and a lot of the equipment links are now dead. I normally brew double to triple batches so need to boil 

1. Basket v malt pipe. I would like to have a basket, rather than grain bag, mostly for ease of cleaning (I hate emptying 15kg of grain from the voile and cleaning it) . I have noticed that a lot of the 1V builds use a malt pipe with false bottom, is there any advantage of this over a basket with mesh sides? I would think the mesh sides allows wort to circulate better and would prevent some of the stuck sparge/dry element issues others have encountered. I have a 60L pot I am willing to sacrifice to make the basket frame and line with some 300-400 micron stainless mesh. 

2. Pump - Leaning towards this keg king pump, purely because I haven't been able to find anything cheaper that will do the job. http://kegking.com.au/mkii-magnetic-drive-pump-25w.html . Any other suggestions?
I'm going to set the pipework up to have 1 return through the lid and the other about 1/3 up the pot to create a whirlpool. should I pump the finished wort to fermenter, or gravity drain it? 

3. Elements - My house has 2 x 20amp circuits so I can safely run a 3600w off each. Thinking of using the 3600W from stilldragon installed in the pot, and grabbing a 3000w portable element from ebay for ramping the boil. http://www.stilldragon.com.au/3600-watt-all-stainless-element-ultra-low-density/ . 

4. Controller Setup - This is the part that is bothering me the most. Not after anything complex. I'm happy to turn the pump on manually, all I want it to do is to control mash temps. I would use a mk11 controller the same as the fermenting fridge ones but the output is only 10A and i'm going to need 18A for the element. Suggestions welcome! 

Cheers


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## malt junkie (18/9/17)

Controller simplicity is going to be a hurdle with 15amps (3600W), I'd normally say throw an STC1000 at it but thats limited to 10amps unless you get funky with the setup.
There are several options but will mostly depend on your budget, Lael's controller(brauduino/ardbir) (sub $300)would be simplest complete all in one to put together, however Lael is in and out of the country, so PM and wait or pick one up on the Buy Sell thread. There are other brew specific controllers but I have no experience with them some are solder yourself PCB's, others are wire up and add parts (switches, SSR's, casing etc). There's also the electric brewery style control box with PID's and switching.

You can spend thousands on a controller if you want to go nuts.


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## husky (18/9/17)

1. You want solid sides on the basket so you can recirculate and clarify the wort. My original 1V has a basket but the wort shortcuts out the sides and not through the grain bed so I had a piece of thin stainless sheet that I used to coil up in the basket to give solid sides and worked much better.

2. Pump bigger is always better. I prefer gravity to fermenter but the heights don't work on current system so I put a lid on the kettle and push C02 in the push to fermenter which could be another option.

3. Assuming 15kg grain = 60L ish wort you might find 1 x 3600W element lacking for the boil. I have 5kw in a 21L batch that I run at 16A to get me 10% boil off. I would install two permanently in the pot


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## pirateagenda (18/9/17)

malt junkie said:


> Controller simplicity is going to be a hurdle with 15amps (3600W), I'd normally say throw an STC1000 at it but thats limited to 10amps unless you get funky with the setup.
> There are several options but will mostly depend on your budget, Lael's controller(brauduino/ardbir) (sub $300)would be simplest complete all in one to put together, however Lael is in and out of the country, so PM and wait or pick one up on the Buy Sell thread. There are other brew specific controllers but I have no experience with them some are solder yourself PCB's, others are wire up and add parts (switches, SSR's, casing etc). There's also the electric brewery style control box with PID's and switching.
> 
> You can spend thousands on a controller if you want to go nuts.



I have looked at the electric brewery ones and they are both way over my needs and way over my budget! 

An STC1000 style setup that was capable of 15 amps would be the perfect solution - alas cannot find anything suitable.


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## malt junkie (18/9/17)

I take it by 100L you mean pot size, so 60-70L pre boil you could (and I do) get away with 2 x 2400w elements, however you'd leave one directly switched and control the other.


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## pirateagenda (18/9/17)

malt junkie said:


> I take it by 100L you mean pot size, so 60-70L pre boil you could (and I do) get away with 2 x 2400w elements, however you'd leave one directly switched and control the other.



Yes, it's a 100L pot, the biggest pre-boil i would encounter is 80L. I guess I could use a 2400w connected to a controller to maintain mash temp and have a 3600w manually operated on the seperate circuit for ramping and boiling.


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## Matplat (18/9/17)

Just get a 20-30amp relay, and just use an STC-1000 to switch the relay, one of these should do it:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Solid-St...128109?hash=item2c95ffc42d:g:KF0AAOSwmrlUx1rV


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## Crusty (18/9/17)

pirateagenda said:


> I have looked at the electric brewery ones and they are both way over my needs and way over my budget!
> 
> An STC1000 style setup that was capable of 15 amps would be the perfect solution - alas cannot find anything suitable.



I went with the 30A Electric Brewery control panel for my future 3V setup but bloody expensive.
I would look at a timer in addition to a PID like the ones on my control panel, auberins SYL-2352
The reason I went these ( recommended by The Electric Brewery ) instead of the ramp soak model was the manual output control to control the power percentage to your element.You can run that 3600w for the boil & if it's too vigorous, back off the percentage on the PID to get the boil you want.


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## Lionman (18/9/17)

Can't you use an STC-1000 to switch a higher amp SSR?

Edit, sorry already said.


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## pirateagenda (18/9/17)

Lionman said:


> Can't you use an STC-1000 to switch a higher amp SSR?
> 
> Edit, sorry already said.



I didn't realise you could do that! makes sense though. 

Anyone got a wiring diagram handy to achieve this?


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## Crusty (18/9/17)

pirateagenda said:


> I didn't realise you could do that! makes sense though.
> 
> Anyone got a wiring diagram handy to achieve this?



Not trying to burst your bubble but you do realize an STC has nowhere near the accuracy of a PID right?
If it's specifically for mashing temp control, you'll be over shooting your mash temps all the time & it'll struggle to maintain your set temp.
Perfect for a fridge temp controller but pretty useless for mashing IMO.


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## pirateagenda (19/9/17)

Crusty said:


> Not trying to burst your bubble but you do realize an STC has nowhere near the accuracy of a PID right?
> If it's specifically for mashing temp control, you'll be over shooting your mash temps all the time & it'll struggle to maintain your set temp.
> Perfect for a fridge temp controller but pretty useless for mashing IMO.



so something like the auberins above you linked would be better? 

I know very little when it comes to this stuff


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## Crusty (19/9/17)

pirateagenda said:


> so something like the auberins above you linked would be better?
> 
> I know very little when it comes to this stuff



Ive had several brew setups over the years & when I had my RIMS system, I ran with the auberins ramp, soak model, SYL-23X2P
This is the newer model of the one I used but the same features. This PID allows you to input a complete mash schedule without any further input from yourself once you hit start. You can adjust your ramp or heating times between set temperatures to match the ramp capabilities of your element. The downside of that particular PID is it has no manual output control to control your element so the element will be on full bore.
The PID I linked to, which I have three of in my control panel, is more manual & requires several inputs by the user to complete the mash. This is why I have a timer with an alarm to tell me when my temp time is finished. I simply press the up arrow to set my next temp & set the alarm for when it's reached. Once there, reset timer for step duration & away you go again. If you think boiling with the 3600w element suits you, go with the ramp/soak model. If you make a smaller batch at any time, the manual PID is the better choice. I'm running 5500w elements in my HLT & boil kettle, 120lt pots.


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## pirateagenda (20/9/17)

Crusty said:


> Ive had several brew setups over the years & when I had my RIMS system, I ran with the auberins ramp, soak model, SYL-23X2P
> This is the newer model of the one I used but the same features. This PID allows you to input a complete mash schedule without any further input from yourself once you hit start. You can adjust your ramp or heating times between set temperatures to match the ramp capabilities of your element. The downside of that particular PID is it has no manual output control to control your element so the element will be on full bore.
> The PID I linked to, which I have three of in my control panel, is more manual & requires several inputs by the user to complete the mash. This is why I have a timer with an alarm to tell me when my temp time is finished. I simply press the up arrow to set my next temp & set the alarm for when it's reached. Once there, reset timer for step duration & away you go again. If you think boiling with the 3600w element suits you, go with the ramp/soak model. If you make a smaller batch at any time, the manual PID is the better choice. I'm running 5500w elements in my HLT & boil kettle, 120lt pots.



Thanks, those PID's look reasonably priced so I will work around using one of them. 

Think I need to get the 3600w elements and pump first and do a manual run to see how it performs boiling 65 litres, to decide whether I need to get the PID to control the element output.


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## Matplat (20/9/17)

I use an stc-1000 for mashing, and while it isn't as accurate as a PID, for the price, it's pretty good. It probably swings -0.5/+1 either side of my set point. Beer still tastes bloody good


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## rude (24/9/17)

Sounds good Mat
What temp probe do you use for it a ss one or just the one stc1000 provides


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