# Brew fridge



## Hangover68 (9/2/20)

I picked up a freebie ex medical supplies fridge that i want to use as a brew fridge, it has a digital thermostat with a wide range of settings and currently doesn't seem to cool but temp is rising as if it was heating.
Quite a solid unit and fits my fermenter in perfectly, being ex medical it has had regular testing/servicing so i hope it can be fixed cheaply.
Any one here able to give me some ideas on how to test it or even bypass the thermostat to trace where the issue is ?


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## koshari (9/2/20)

does the compressor run, if so i would say your looking at a paperweight unless you know someone that could try gassing it, otherwise if the compressor isnt running your flying, just bypass the controller with an stc1000.

looks like it would fit perfectly in the cavity in the front as well.

most fridges have a wiring diagram sticker on em, take a pic and post it.


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## H0U5ECAT (9/2/20)

it already has a STC (sic) built in. Thats the digital controller at the top.
Generally the controllers on these are all generic. The operation of them should all be the same.

Check out this operation vid on how to operate them.

You may find out if the temp control is stopping it from getting cold or if it's set right, the compressor/gas etc is fukkered


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## Hangover68 (9/2/20)

Compressor runs fine and it was tested/service 16 months ago so assume not much wrong with it apart from not cooling which i'm hoping is a lack of gas. I didnt think that an STC 1000 would fit in there nicely if the controller is toast, i found a manual for the controller and although it has a lot of parameters that can be adjusted the basic temp control is simple.


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## koshari (9/2/20)

all looks pretty straight fwd t me except the "shower" part L??.

so the compressor is running (and not in a stall) and its not cooling, IMO sadly its not worth getting a professional to fix it, theres 2 issues here the bill will be more than you could get another working 2nd hand frig for and theres likely to be some other issue if the gasd has escaped in the first place, also these disposable fridges wont have gas ports on them, they will simply be a charge up and crimp and silver solder jobbie. you can get clamp on ports hat pierce the tail and give you a single service valve but again its prolly throwing good money after bad.


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## Hangover68 (9/2/20)

koshari said:


> all looks pretty straight fwd t me except the "shower" part L??.
> 
> so the compressor is running (and not in a stall) and its not cooling, IMO sadly its not worth getting a professional to fix it, theres 2 issues here the bill will be more than you could get another working 2nd hand frig for and theres likely to be some other issue if the gasd has escaped in the first place, also these disposable fridges wont have gas ports on them, they will simply be a charge up and crimp and silver solder jobbie. you can get clamp on ports hat pierce the tail and give you a single service valve but again its prolly throwing good money after bad.



I thought about adding a bullet valve , pity as it would be perfect. Been trying to find a small fridge without a freezer to use but either they go quick or the sellers wont answer messages.


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## koshari (9/2/20)

Hangover68 said:


> I thought about adding a bullet valve , pity as it would be perfect. Been trying to find a small fridge without a freezer to use but either they go quick or the sellers wont answer messages.


iam hearing you, in the end i settled on a 350l upside down, the freezer section is pretty small and is wasted but the upside is the fridge shelf of perfect height and doesn’t have a compressor bump in the fridge cavity.


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## djebel (9/2/20)

koshari said:


> iam hearing you, in the end i settled on a 350l upside down, the freezer section is pretty small and is wasted but the upside is the fridge shelf of perfect height and doesn’t have a compressor bump in the fridge cavity.


It depends how the fridge is chilled, and whether it has independent temperature controls for fridge and freezer. I had an upside down (totally agree about it being the ideal height) that I modified so that fridge controller was bypassed, and fridge cooling controlled by my external controller. The freezer still worked as a normal freezer, ideal for storing hops in .

Sadly it died . Only 19 years old, picked up off the side of the road for nix. They just don't make them like they used to!


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## koshari (10/2/20)

djebel said:


> It depends how the fridge is chilled, and whether it has independent temperature controls for fridge and freezer. I had an upside down (totally agree about it being the ideal height) that I modified so that fridge controller was bypassed, and fridge cooling controlled by my external controller. The freezer still worked as a normal freezer, ideal for storing hops in .
> 
> Sadly it died . Only 19 years old, picked up off the side of the road for nix. They just don't make them like they used to!


it seems there are heaps round when you dont need one but as soon as your looking for one its like the supply dries up or they are miles away. wonder if i should put one aside if one comes up locally.


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## djebel (10/2/20)

koshari said:


> it seems there are heaps round when you dont need one but as soon as your looking for one its like the supply dries up or they are miles away. wonder if i should put one aside if one comes up locally.


Definitely. Gives you time to clean it thoroughly, make a nice job of removing the door shelves, etc.

Plus you might be able to sneakily use it as an extra fermentation chamber at times. And then gradually integrate it in to the brewery until, "Of course I've _always_ had two fermenting fridges in here dear ."


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## Grok (10/2/20)

Or you could convert a fridge/freezer like this!


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## Hangover68 (10/2/20)

I need something a bit more compact, at the worst it will make a good winter brew chamber.


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## Grok (10/2/20)

From my experience with fridges, and I am not a pro, but I have seriously researched refrigeration and bought gear to be able to service and repair my own, if the compressor runs but doesn't cool very well inside, probably low on gas, or inside fan (if it has one) is not working, or the radiator arrangement (condenser) is not efficient enough for Australian conditions in the summer (could be the outer skin or a radiator at the back), probably ok for Europe etc. If it has a radiator at the back, often a simple fan blowing air over it when the compressor starts makes all the difference in efficiency, think of your car radiator without a fan, its all about heat exchange and air flow! I find older Australian made fridges usually have a nice big radiator and can easily cope with hot conditions. If the radiator is getting hot, that's a good sign, because it will exchange some of that heat into the atmosphere if it can (a fan helps!).

If it has a clamp on bullet service valve, they do sometimes (often actually!) let a tiny amount of gas past their sealing arrangement and therefore the system slowly loses its gas charge over time, its best to have a proper permanent service valve soldered into place.
If you like the fridge, maybe worth getting it repaired.


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## Hangover68 (10/2/20)

Grok said:


> From my experience with fridges, and I am not a pro, but I have seriously researched refrigeration and bought gear to be able to service and repair my own, if the compressor runs but doesn't cool very well inside, probably low on gas, or inside fan (if it has one) is not working, or the radiator arrangement (condenser) is not efficient enough for Australian conditions in the summer (could be the outer skin or a radiator at the back), probably ok for Europe etc. If it has a radiator at the back, often a simple fan blowing air over it when the compressor starts makes all the difference in efficiency, think of your car radiator without a fan, its all about heat exchange and air flow! I find older Australian made fridges usually have a nice big radiator and can easily cope with hot conditions. If the radiator is getting hot, that's a good sign, because it will exchange some of that heat into the atmosphere if it can (a fan helps!).
> 
> If it has a clamp on bullet service valve, they do sometimes (often actually!) let a tiny amount of gas past their sealing arrangement and therefore the system slowly loses its gas charge over time, its best to have a proper permanent service valve soldered into place.
> If you like the fridge, maybe worth getting it repaired.



I do like it and my fermenter fits perfectly and i think it would be worth fixing, current model of this fridge is $1900. Looking at the specs its more of a cooler than a fridge (like a wine cooler) and maybe sitting it outside on my deck on a 30c day wasn't the best idea.


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## KegLand-com-au (10/2/20)

Hangover68 said:


> I do like it and my fermenter fits perfectly and i think it would be worth fixing, current model of this fridge is $1900. Looking at the specs its more of a cooler than a fridge (like a wine cooler) and maybe sitting it outside on my deck on a 30c day wasn't the best idea.



$1900 is kinda expensive. The RAPT fermentation fridges will cost a lot less than that and already have data logging, heating and cooling integrated.

I hope you guys don't mind us throwing a question out there but we really would like to get your feedback. With the RAPT Fermentation Chamber do you think you guys would prefer a foam filled front door or glass door. 

1. Glass door
The only advantage is that you can see what's going on inside and show off your brewery bling.

2. Foam filled door
- The advantage is:
a) The fridge will use about 1/3 of the power consumption.
b) block damaging light so beer doesnt get skunked
c) can drill holes through the door to install taps if you did want to also use it for fermentation or kegerator

I know many customers seem to really like glass doors and most of our staff seem to want foam door for this product but we really would like to hear from you guys before we bring the stock in.


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## KegLand-com-au (10/2/20)

Hangover68 said:


> I need something a bit more compact, at the worst it will make a good winter brew chamber.



If you guys just need a brewing chamber without cooling we sometimes get the Series 4 and Series X fridges that have damage to them. For instance we from time to time get them hit with forklift and gas comes out of the fridge. These units would make a good insulated brew chamber if you just fit a temp controller and heating device. So if you guys want one of these then touch base with us from time to time and we might have something for you. It would be better to see these go to a good home rather than landfill.


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## dkril (10/2/20)

KegLand-com-au said:


> $1900 is kinda expensive. The RAPT fermentation fridges will cost a lot less than that and already have data logging, heating and cooling integrated.
> 
> I hope you guys don't mind us throwing a question out there but we really would like to get your feedback. With the RAPT Fermentation Chamber do you think you guys would prefer a foam filled front door or glass door.
> 
> ...


Foam filled all the way.

Whichever way you end up going, could you sell the other type of doors as a separate part for a reasonable price?


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## Hangover68 (10/2/20)

I wanted the glass door so i can see whats going on plus it wont be running for long so efficiency isn't an issue, its an ex medial syrum fridge hence why they are expensive - i would never pay that.


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## Bob65 (10/2/20)

KegLand-com-au said:


> $1900 is kinda expensive. The RAPT fermentation fridges will cost a lot less than that and already have data logging, heating and cooling integrated.
> 
> I hope you guys don't mind us throwing a question out there but we really would like to get your feedback. With the RAPT Fermentation Chamber do you think you guys would prefer a foam filled front door or glass door.
> 
> ...



I would want the foam door.


Just looking at the link you gave it says they are out of stock. 

When are you expecting them in?


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## Grok (10/2/20)

Foam door should be the default I reckon, with the option of a glass door, as stated on your shop page.


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## Blackman (11/2/20)

Foam door


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## Grmblz (11/2/20)

Foam door with glass as an option.


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## koshari (12/2/20)

Grok said:


> From my experience with fridges, and I am not a pro, but I have seriously researched refrigeration and bought gear to be able to service and repair my own, if the compressor runs but doesn't cool very well inside, probably low on gas, .......................................................
> 
> If it has a clamp on bullet service valve, they do sometimes (often actually!) let a tiny amount of gas past their sealing arrangement and therefore the system slowly loses its gas charge over time, its best to have a proper permanent service valve soldered into place.
> If you like the fridge, maybe worth getting it repaired.



pretty much my thoughts as well, and heres another tip, "Propane" if you top the charge up with a bit of propane it may begin working again, propane is already categorized as a UN refrigerent and present on some refrigerent mixes eg R290. its also one of the best refrigerants and readily available without requiring a licence to obtain it..


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## Hangover68 (12/2/20)

koshari said:


> pretty much my thoughts as well, and heres another tip, "Propane" if you top the charge up with a bit of propane it may begin working again, propane is already categorized as a UN refrigerent and present on some refrigerent mixes eg R290. its also one of the best refrigerants and readily available without requiring a licence to obtain it..



Will propane mix ok with R134a ? if there is any left that is.


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## KegLand-com-au (12/2/20)

Thanks for your replies on the RAPT fridge guys. We really appreciate your feedback.

It seems like foam foor is definitely the way to go and I think most of us feel the same way so we will go with foam door and then have the glass door sold as a separate additional part. This has the slight added advantage that the foam door is a bit cheaper to make and also will enable us to keep the price on the base fridge model a bit lower.

We would totally agree with you on hydrocarbon based fridge. It's strange that many refrigerant technicians in Australia are still dubious about hydrocarbon refrigerant gasses due to flammability but with respect to electrical efficiency, peak current draw, refrigerant pressures, and environmentally the R290(propane) and R600a(isobutane) are significantly better than the flurocarbon and hydro-flurocarbon based gasses gasses. Europe have already largely moved to hydrocarbon gasses but in Australia we are a bit slow unfortunately.

We certainly will be using the R600a (isobutane) gas and for this particular temperature range (-2 to positive 50C) set temp on the RAPT fridge the R600a gas is normally the best choice. It would be possible to use R290 however R600a also does not require a licence to obtain and is really more suitable for this particular product.

We phased out the use of R134a quite some time ago already and I really can't believe that new products are still hitting the shelf with this gas type.


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## Bob65 (12/2/20)

Do you have any idea when the RAPT fridges will be back in stock?


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## koshari (12/2/20)

Hangover68 said:


> Will propane mix ok with R134a ? if there is any left that is.


it will, i have a mix of r134 and propane in my triton atm, if there is no gas left straight propane will be fine, you should consult the pressure/temp tables for the gas pressure but generally speaking just adding a little bit at a time untill it starts cooling will do it, its mot like you have both high and low pressure ports to connect the gauges up to anyway with just a bullet connector. prolly more important that the refrigerant oil hasn't got out or the compressor will seize, having said that if ita running still and not cooling its a fair indicator that there is still oil in the system.


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## koshari (12/2/20)

KegLand-com-au said:


> Thanks for your replies on the RAPT fridge guys. We really appreciate your feedback.
> 
> It's strange that many refrigerant technicians in Australia are still dubious about hydrocarbon refrigerant gasses due to flammability but with respect to electrical efficiency, peak current draw, refrigerant pressures, and environmentally the R290(propane) and R600a(isobutane) are significantly better than the flurocarbon and hydro-flurocarbon based gasses gasses. Europe have already largely moved to hydrocarbon gasses but in Australia we are a bit slow unfortunately.
> 
> .



Same people are happy to use BBQs and LPG cars.

i suspect it has a little bit more to do with the fact that they are licensed to aquire the other gasses and hydro based gasses dont require such licensing.


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## KegLand-com-au (12/2/20)

Bob65 said:


> Do you have any idea when the RAPT fridges will be back in stock?



The RAPT chamber hopefully will be finished in about 4 months. We are only just about to start the electrical compliance process. Sorry about the long wait.


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## KegLand-com-au (12/2/20)

koshari said:


> Same people are happy to use BBQs and LPG cars.
> 
> i suspect it has a little bit more to do with the fact that they are licensed to aquire the other gasses and hydro based gasses dont require such licensing.



I would absolutely agree with this statement. As other HCFCs, CFCs, and HFCs are controlled substances substantial barriers to entry to manufacture, import and distribute these gasses exists which is how it's run by this duopoly. Large companies like DuPont and General Motors are able to sustain large markup in these gasses due to these barriers alone.

I recently went to a seminar on the transition to hydrocarbon gasses and it was sponsored by one of these companies and as a result it became a smear campaign not to use hydrocarbons.


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## Grok (12/2/20)

Be careful about mixing gases, there are a few different types of compressor oils that don't always mix properly with certain gases, and you can stuff your compressor up, *Do some research !!!!!* Also, because of flammable gas in the system, you are supposed to have solid state relays on the compressor and closed sealed switches etc to minimise any ignition sources, plus a flammable gas sticker in close proximity so the next frig tech knows whats in the system. If a compressor is designed for a certain gas, it may not be suitable for another gas, its to do with gas pressures and densities.
Heres a tip, if you want to get your hands on some R134a, check out some electrical and engineering "freeze sprays", look at the propellant or SD sheet.


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## Josh Dodd (13/2/20)

KegLand-com-au said:


> The RAPT chamber hopefully will be finished in about 4 months. We are only just about to start the electrical compliance process. Sorry about the long wait.


Holy Crap. That looks cool. Kind of wish I'd picked up one of these instead of my Series 4 Kegerator!! Able to hold four full-size kegs and two half-size is insane. You should make a Kegerator version with this with a four or six tap font fiitted to the door.


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## koshari (13/2/20)

Grok said:


> Be careful about mixing gases, there are a few different types of compressor oils that don't always mix properly with certain gases, and you can stuff your compressor up, *Do some research !!!!!* Also, because of flammable gas in the system, you are supposed to have solid state relays on the compressor and closed sealed switches etc to minimise any ignition sources, plus a flammable gas sticker in close proximity so the next frig tech knows whats in the system. If a compressor is designed for a certain gas, it may not be suitable for another gas, its to do with gas pressures and densities.
> Heres a tip, if you want to get your hands on some R134a, check out some electrical and engineering "freeze sprays", look at the propellant or SD sheet.


good post grok, saved me typing out all these disclaimers


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## KegLand-com-au (13/2/20)

Josh Dodd said:


> Holy Crap. That looks cool. Kind of wish I'd picked up one of these instead of my Series 4 Kegerator!! Able to hold four full-size kegs and two half-size is insane. You should make a Kegerator version with this with a four or six tap font fiitted to the door.



Yes I think we will have to make some RAPT kegerator units as you have suggested.


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## Hangover68 (13/2/20)

Grok said:


> Be careful about mixing gases, there are a few different types of compressor oils that don't always mix properly with certain gases, and you can stuff your compressor up, *Do some research !!!!!* Also, because of flammable gas in the system, you are supposed to have solid state relays on the compressor and closed sealed switches etc to minimise any ignition sources, plus a flammable gas sticker in close proximity so the next frig tech knows whats in the system. If a compressor is designed for a certain gas, it may not be suitable for another gas, its to do with gas pressures and densities.
> Heres a tip, if you want to get your hands on some R134a, check out some electrical and engineering "freeze sprays", look at the propellant or SD sheet.



Yes, wont be mixing gases and already had a discussion with some one on another forum i frequent about using freeze spray as a top up so thats my plan.


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## Hangover68 (23/2/20)

Well i fitted a bullet valve and gave the fridge a top up gas charge with R134a and its happily cooling away at 2c, now to setup my inkbird 308 ready for my next brew.


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## Hangover68 (26/2/20)

Replaced my broken fermenter with a couple of cubes which fit nicely in the fridge, pity i cant fit 2 side by side but not quite enough room.


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## Josh Dodd (27/2/20)

Hangover68 said:


> Replaced my broken fermenter with a couple of cubes which fit nicely in the fridge, pity i cant fit 2 side by side but not quite enough room.
> 
> View attachment 117593


That's why I use 20L Jerry cans to ferment. They can actually fit around 22l in them which gives just enough room for a 19L corny keg brew. The headspace is a little tight, and I have to use blow-off tubes, especially for particularly active brews, but I can fit two Jerry's in my Kegerator for cold crashing or one Jerry and still have room to keep two kegs on tap. They also take up a lot less space on my bench when fermenting and are easy to clean, move around and store. Two side by side takes up roughly the same volume as a single cube but each holds 20-22L as opposed to a single 25-litre cube. I don't have a fridge or fermentation chamber at the moment, I use a heat cable and a digital thermometer to roughly control temps, but if I ever did pick up a fridge for fermenting, the smaller footprint of the Jerry can is a huge benefit.


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## Hangover68 (27/2/20)

Josh Dodd said:


> That's why I use 20L Jerry cans to ferment. They can actually fit around 22l in them which gives just enough room for a 19L corny keg brew. The headspace is a little tight, and I have to use blow-off tubes, especially for particularly active brews, but I can fit two Jerry's in my Kegerator for cold crashing or one Jerry and still have room to keep two kegs on tap. They also take up a lot less space on my bench when fermenting and are easy to clean, move around and store. Two side by side takes up roughly the same volume as a single cube but each holds 20-22L as opposed to a single 25-litre cube. I don't have a fridge or fermentation chamber at the moment, I use a heat cable and a digital thermometer to roughly control temps, but if I ever did pick up a fridge for fermenting, the smaller footprint of the Jerry can is a huge benefit.



I think i will grab a couple of jerry's as well, i could then do 2 at a time or even 2 half batches.
Height is my only concern, i have just under 500mm although i could possibly turn them around and remove the shelf.


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## Josh Dodd (27/2/20)

Hangover68 said:


> I think i will grab a couple of jerry's as well, i could then do 2 at a time or even 2 half batches.
> Height is my only concern, i have just under 500mm although i could possibly turn them around and remove the shelf.


According to Bunnings they're 440mm tall. You won't be able to fit them in the fridge with a standard airlock, but a blow-off tube would be fine. 
However; you also want to allow room for a tap fitting on the front of the Jerry - you need 340mm for the can and another 80mm or so for the taps on the front. That could be your limiting factor if the fridge space is tight?


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## Hangover68 (27/2/20)

The cubes are 440mm and an airlock fits so should just sneak in.


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## Chappo666 (17/3/20)

Dude.... guess ya regerting (spellin' intentional) this purchase?

Made in China AND Medical FFS!


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## Hangover68 (18/3/20)

Chappo666 said:


> Dude.... guess ya regerting (spellin' intentional) this purchase?
> 
> Made in China AND Medical FFS!



Nope works perfectly and what isn't made in china these days, pre corona and sars so all good.


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