# Ag Brewing Kills



## TasChris (6/6/06)

Hi all,
completed my first AG brew on the week end and what a debacle that is still impacting on the family.


Sequence of stuff ups

(1)Underlet into mash tun wih out pre warming mashtun
(2)Put too much water into mashtun 3.5 l/kg instead of 2.5 l/kg however this countered the very cold mash tun and still hit correct temp
(3) During stiring of grist knocked the hose of the false bottom
(4) drained wort complete with some grain into kettle
(5) noted that I only had 24l in the kettle instead of 31 litres. Where did the 7 litres go??
(6) in a moment of brillance I decided to add 7 litres of water to kettle
(7) fed used grain to Casper the goat
(8) ended up with 25 litres of OG 1040 instead of 22 litres of 1045 in the fermenter. Where did the additional 3 litres come from??

Monday morning goat not looking well, he couldn't be bothered sitting in his house despite heavy frost

Tuesday morning goat dead.

Things to do
Recalc my water needs and dead spaces 
Stop doing other jobs while brewing
Fix false bottom connections
Bury 60kg goat- bloody big hole!!! or feed goat to the Wedge Tailed Eagles and devils as a tribute to the gods

Next beer might have to a Bock to celebrate Casper the Friendly Goats life and death.

What a great birth of Tasmania's most Western Brewery! Gunna call my brewery
Sister's Kiss Brewery :lol: 
Cheers
Chris


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## goatherder (6/6/06)

Sorry to hear about Casper, that is not cool. Offer him as a tribute, he'd have wanted it that way.

did you feed him too much?

I fed my spent grain to my goats last time I mashed and they loved it. I didn't give them much though.


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## neonmeate (6/6/06)

why not chuck casper in secondary of the bock and let the yeast at him?


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## T.D. (6/6/06)

I have heard some stuff about some animals reacting badly to spent grain. I just can't remember the details now! It was either cows or horses that can't handle the spent grain. In fact I think the person that told me said that it could actually kill the animal. I was amazed because I know most micros give their spent grain to farmers to feed to stock. Definitely worth looking into before feeding it to any animals I'd say. That's a shame to hear about your goat.


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## Tony (6/6/06)

Call the beer "dead goat ale"

Mate thats terible, you killed a goat. They say they can eat anything...... WRONG.

Do you have promash. I use the strike water calculator to work out my strike water.. Instead of pre heating the nash tom, work out its thermal mass.

Heat say 20 liters of water to a temp and record it. Say 70 deg.

Pour it into the mash ton without any grain and let it stabalise for a minuite. 

Check your temp again.

Then go to the strike water calculator in promash, add in your water amount ans increase the thermal mass till the temp drops to the temp the water dropped to in the mash ton.

then you have your thermal mass and the software will do the rest.

Hhat are you using for a mash ton? I use a 50 liter SS vessel and set thermal mass to 0.2

cheers


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## apd (6/6/06)

My condolences on Casper's passing.


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## TasChris (6/6/06)

neonmeate said:


> why not chuck casper in secondary of the bock and let the yeast at him?


Hmm Casper's personal hygene left a little to be desired. You could smell him from 20 feet. Mind you It can't smell any worse than horse sweat


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## pint of lager (6/6/06)

Very sorry to read about Casper.

The first few ag's and especially the first are a big learning curve, that is why it is best to stick to a nice easy middle of the road pale ale. If things don't work out exactly as planned the brew is still within specs and you get to enjoy the end result. 

From time to time, different board members mention feeding goats, but have never heard of a goat dropping dead from spent grain. 

It is time to calibrate your kettle and allow for some expansion, hot wort takes up 4% more space than cold wort.

3.5 litres per kilo is fine. There was a post some time back that a commercial brewery making Pilsners uses 3.5-4 litres in the mash tun. The downside to higher ratios is that you need a bigger mashtun, not such an issue to us homebrewers, 

You lost the first 7 litres due to the grain absorbing water.
Don't know where the next lot went, but it is probably due to differences in evaporation rates between your system and the software.

Hope everything goes smoothly for your next brew.


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## chillamacgilla73 (6/6/06)

That's no good TasChris - condolences to you and the family.

I throw my spent grain on the compost heap and the chooks then scratch around and eat it with gusto.....Better do a head/comb/beak count when I get home.

Think of how many mistakes you can learn from in the one brew. Better that than dragging them out over a number of brews.


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## sinkas (6/6/06)

Poor goat, how much did it actually eat, I assume it just completely goarged itself?

I hear used hops is not good for dogs etc..


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## TasChris (6/6/06)

pint of lager said:


> Very sorry to read about Casper.
> 
> The first few ag's and especially the first are a big learning curve, that is why it is best to stick to a nice easy middle of the road pale ale. If things don't work out exactly as planned the brew is still within specs and you get to enjoy the end result.
> 
> ...


Hi PoL
I factored in the loss to grain adsobtion, dead space, evap etc but must of stuffed up some where or the measurements on my sight gauge are not too accurate, I will have to another grain free run again to see what all the losses are. 
I think/hope the goat died from something other than the grain!!


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## Chilled (6/6/06)

Sorry to hear of the passing of your goat.
There was mention of spent grain killing worm in a worm farm. May be it has something to do with the acidity of the grain??


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## goatherder (6/6/06)

I've so far fed spent grain to goats, horses, chooks, geese and dogs (they stole if from the chooks) without any ill effects...

I think I read in "brew like a monk" that they send the spent grain to local farms for cattle feed.


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## Ross (6/6/06)

T.D. said:


> I have heard some stuff about some animals reacting badly to spent grain. I just can't remember the details now! It was either cows or horses that can't handle the spent grain. In fact I think the person that told me said that it could actually kill the animal.



Yes, never give to horses, can kill a horse, but cows love it - I would have thought a goat would be fine, but maybe only in small doses.

Congrats & commiserations TasChris - here's hoping your next one goes much smoother...

Cheers Ross


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## goatherder (6/6/06)

i've just read that goats are susceptible to Enterotoxaemia, a bacterial disease. It can be triggered by sudden changes in diet, including accidental access to bulk grain or concentrates. It is almost always fatal and treatment is rarely successful.

Source - NSW Dept of Agriculture


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## browndog (6/6/06)

Sorry to hear about your first AG like that TasChris, makes my first effort seem like dream run. Rather than Dead goat ale, I recommend you call it the more subtle "got my goat ale.  

cheers

Browndog


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## Trough Lolly (6/6/06)

Sorry to read about your goat's unexpected demise...at least you probably won't have to worry about other family members queueing up to drink your beer!!

Cheers,
TL


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## Jazzafish (6/6/06)

All the spent grain from the malt shovel brewery goes to feed cows...


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## PistolPatch (6/6/06)

Chris, it will all be worth it in the end! I'm going to send you a copy of a PM I received the other day as it sounds as though you have a great sense of humour. You may actually die laughing when you read this and therefore end up being buried next to Casper the Friendly Goat. (Sorry to hear that Casper actually had a name. Things like that are definitely a lot easier when you have a whole herd. My commiserations to you - stuff like that is not fun.)

Reading through your first post though, I think you actually did extremely well. I think AG without someone holding your hand is very hard. With someone - very easy. So really well done to you. What you ended up with (25 at 1040) on a first go is great!

All the best
Pat

EDIT: Sorry Chris but PM feature seems to be not working. Will keep an eye out though and send PM asap. Oh, and the PM is all about starting out in AG.


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## Chatty (6/6/06)

It sounds like he died of acidosis. The sudden addition of grain to a ruminants diet can lead to a rapid drop in the pH of the rumen, and as a result it drops the pH of the blood. It can also lead to massive bloating when the grain rapidly ferments. As a result, the animal is poisoned internally. If feeding large amounts of grain, the addition of lime will reduce the pH of the rumen and avoid all these problems. This condition is a problem is all ruminants - sheep, horses and cattle. Pigs and chooks are monogastrics so shouldn't be susceptible.

Grain is fine to be fed to horses as long as there isn't a massive amount provided ad lib suddenly. Horses commonly eat barley and oats with no problems - anyone showing them will feed them grain to put a shine into their coat. Horses will commonly get laminitis if fed large amounts of grain - an acidification of the blood stream leading to joint soreness.

Well off topic I know but since brewers seem to be down to earth types that are likely to keep ruminants it's probably worth knowing.

Chatty


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## dicko (6/6/06)

Trough Lolly said:


> Sorry to read about your goat's unexpected demise...at least you probably won't have to worry about other family members queueing up to drink your beer!!
> 
> Cheers,
> TL



TL,

:lol: :lol: 

On another note I hope Yirros is OK!!

Cheers


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## Mr Bond (6/6/06)

If only you had waited until 2day to sacrifice the goat *6/6/06*.It would have had much more significance!


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## Tony (6/6/06)

I was thinking about this earlier and was going to ask if the remaining sugars in the grain could have started to firment in its belly.

oooooooo nasty.

a work mate and i were having a laugh about hte wind you get if you eat sweets and drink couldy beer.

wont be eating grain in any hurry though 

cheers


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## Vlad the Pale Aler (6/6/06)

Memo to Barfridge -

If Goat is coming on Saturday, keep him away from the spent grain, I aint diggin a hole that big to bury the bugger.


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## PistolPatch (28/9/09)

Chris, just wanted you to know that even though Casper has been gone for over 3 years now he is not forgotten. Hope it isn't too irreverent but I had to put a link to your first post above in the Funniest Posts thread  

Has the rest of the family forgiven you yet?

:icon_cheers: 
Pat


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## InCider (28/9/09)

Great find Patch!


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## Bribie G (28/9/09)

Poor goat, I've tried my grains on several species of wildlife around here but no takers. It's interesting to see the members then who are still very active but I note that TroughLolly hasn't been on for a couple of months,  hope the guy is ok, any Canberrians in touch with him at all ?


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## TasChris (10/11/09)

PistolPatch said:


> Chris, just wanted you to know that even though Casper has been gone for over 3 years now he is not forgotten. Hope it isn't too irreverent but I had to put a link to your first post above in the Funniest Posts thread
> 
> Has the rest of the family forgiven you yet?
> 
> ...


Hi Pat, 
I think Casper would approve of the reminder. 
Casper belonged to a friend before me and he had the goat tethered onto a star picket with a long length of chain, which the goat would then tangle around every thing. 
My friend one-day went to untangle the chain and got between the goat and the star picket. This was the opportunity that Casper had been waiting for.
Casper quickly looped around him, bringing the chain at high speed with him and the chain hit my mate behind the knees dropping him to the ground.
Imagine the surprised look on the family in the passing car when they saw a large grown man on all fours being butted in the arse by a 60 kg goat.
We live in a small place and the word had got around pretty quickly about some bizarre practices occurring on the edge of town.

Ah Casper, smelly but memorable.

Chris


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## brettprevans (10/11/09)

so basically the maker of Shaun the Sheep modelled their goat on casper! poor goat


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## raven19 (10/11/09)

TasChris said:


> ...This was the opportunity that Casper had been waiting for....
> 
> ...Imagine the surprised look on the family in the passing car when they saw a large grown man on all fours being butted in the arse by a 60 kg goat.



Long live Casper and the memories. That story made me smile!

Have you got a replacement Goat yet?


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## TasChris (10/11/09)

raven19 said:


> Long live Casper and the memories. That story made me smile!
> 
> Have you got a replacement Goat yet?


 Nah we moved house and I got some cows, pigs and chooks instead who all appreciate spent grain alittle more than poor Casper.

Cheers
Chris


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## Tim (10/11/09)

I'm surprised no body threw the dead goat into their brewing cider!


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