# Recipedb - Coopers Sparkling Ale Clone



## AndrewQLD

Coopers Sparkling Ale Clone  Ale - English Pale Ale  All Grain               9 Votes        Brewer's Notes Mash regime for a highly attenuative wortStep Time Name Description Step Temp 5 min Mash In Add 18.48 L of water at 36.8 C 35.0 C 15 min Protien Rest Heat to 52.0 C over 10 min 52.0 C 60 min Sacch Rest Heat to 63.0 C over 10 min 63.0 C No Mash outDue to the limitations of the online recipe database you can go to the discussion thread and you will find a downloadable BeerSmith File and a text file with more accurate details1st place QABC 2009 Aust. Pale Ale and Reserve Champion Beer of Show.   Malt & Fermentables    % KG Fermentable      4.3 kg BB Ale Malt    0.24 kg BB Wheat Malt    0.05 kg Bairds Dark Crystal       Hops    Time Grams Variety Form AA      39 g Pride of Ringwood (Pellet, 9.0AA%, 60mins)       Yeast     1000 ml Coopers - Cooper Ale       Misc     1 tsp Yeast Nutrient    1 tablet Whirfloc         23L Batch Size    Brew Details   Original Gravity 1.051 (calc)   Final Gravity 1.013 (calc)   Bitterness 38.8 IBU   Efficiency 80%   Alcohol 4.94%   Colour 12 EBC   Batch Size 23L     Fermentation   Primary 7 days   Secondary 7 days   Conditioning 2 days           

View attachment CSA.bsm








View attachment CSA.txt


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## warra48

Andrew,

What's the litre of Coopers Ale?

Cheers.


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## AndrewQLD

warra48 said:


> Andrew,
> 
> What's the litre of Coopers Ale?
> 
> Cheers.



That would be recultured Coopers Ale yeast propagated up to a litre Warra.


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## bear09

warra48 said:


> Andrew,
> 
> What's the litre of Coopers Ale?
> 
> Cheers.



It will be recultured Coopers Sparkling Ale yeast.


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## Bribie G

Andrew, first thing I noticed about the database recipe is the alc % which is below 5 percent, whilst in your above post you mention 5.8 as per the Coopers genuine article. Does this mean that the 'engine' behind the database is out of whack? I noticed when I posted a lightly hopped recipe (20g chinook for 90 mins) the database calculated some huge IBU that didn't seem right at all. 

If the DB is a bit wobbly it's surely going to dissuade people from trying the recipes.


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## AndrewQLD

BribieG said:


> Andrew, first thing I noticed about the database recipe is the alc % which is below 5 percent, whilst in your above post you mention 5.8 as per the Coopers genuine article. Does this mean that the 'engine' behind the database is out of whack? I noticed when I posted a lightly hopped recipe (20g chinook for 90 mins) the database calculated some huge IBU that didn't seem right at all.
> 
> If the DB is a bit wobbly it's surely going to dissuade people from trying the recipes.



I've noticed a few discrepencies within the database, as you pointed out the attenuation seems out of whack as does the IBU calculations, also a lot of ingredients aren't there.
That's the reason I include a BSM file in the discussion thread, I think I might also include a text file.

Andrew


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## warra48

Thank you.
I've imported your recipe into my BeerSmith recipe file for future referenence/use.


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## bear09

AndrewQLD said:


> I've noticed a few discrepencies within the database, as you pointed out the attenuation seems out of whack as does the IBU calculations, also a lot of ingredients aren't there.
> That's the reason I include a BSM file in the discussion thread, I think I might also include a text file.
> 
> Andrew



That would be awesome for us Promash users.

Cheers.


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## srepooc xe

Wow.... pretty close!

Some inside information perhaps???? Or just very good observations?? 

Your OG is a little high and FG is a little high too. Try starting at around 11.3 P and finishing at 1.2 P

And your right your missing a couple of things from the grist bill. See if you can answer this riddle??? 

You need to add something that .... is like snow but from goes with -Bix

Any more advice and I might be making it too easy.

Cheers

X


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## Cracka

srepooc xe said:


> Wow.... pretty close!
> 
> Some inside information perhaps???? Or just very good observations??
> 
> Your OG is a little high and FG is a little high too. Try starting at around 11.3 P and finishing at 1.2 P
> 
> And your right your missing a couple of things from the grist bill. See if you can answer this riddle???
> 
> You need to add something that .... is like snow but from goes with -Bix
> 
> Any more advice and I might be making it too easy.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> X






First post hey <_< 

Try starting at around 11.3 P and finishing at 1.2 P

Is that like 11:30pm  

I don't get it :huh:


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## AndrewQLD

Cracka said:


> First post hey <_<
> 
> Try starting at around 11.3 P and finishing at 1.2 P
> 
> Is that like 11:30pm
> 
> I don't get it :huh:



Cracka, 11.3p (plato) is 1.046 and 1.2p is 1.005
And I think X is referring to some form of sugar
And I hate riddles too.

I'm wondering if his nick refers to an ex coopers employee.


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## gibbocore

I'd put Cane sugar on my 'weet' bix, dunno bout you guys.


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## eamonnfoley

Looks like a cracker.

When culturing a coopers bottle - is it better to use a 750ml bottle, and is it worth doing if you can't source a super fresh bottle? Best I can seem to get is best after march 09. Might be able to find a fresher one hopefully.


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## AndrewQLD

Foles, I usually use a couple of stubbies but a 750ml would work as well. Fresher is better but March 09 sounds pretty good to me and should fire up ok so long as the bottle has been treated well.
It can be a bit hit and miss at times.

Andrew


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## Punter

AndrewQLD said:


> I'm wondering if his nick refers to an ex coopers employee.




I think you may be right. Read his name backwards  

I've brewed this a couple of times now Andrew, and it is a cracker.
Thanks for the recipe.


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## Hutch

gibbocore said:


> I'd put Cane sugar on my 'weet' bix, dunno bout you guys.



"like snow but from goes with -Bix" must mean "wheat flour", mustn't it?
... I would also have thought sugar was in the recipe though.


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## bum

I'm openly unfamiliar with AG processes and all ingredients but I'd say the snow reference was to "flakes". Might not be at all relevant of course.

[EDIT: typos]


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## A3k

Could be referring to cocaine


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## Supra-Jim

From memory the relatively recent BYO article and recipe on this beer had it finishing very low (3.5vol carbonation was recommended to help prevent it from seeming too thin, i think) and cane sugar was included to assist it finishing quite low.

Note this recipe was also a clone derived from trial error and a bit of research, not the difinitive Coopers recipe.

Cheers SJ


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## gibbocore

Hutch said:


> "like snow but from goes with -Bix" must mean "wheat flour", mustn't it?
> ... I would also have thought sugar was in the recipe though.



yeah i was gonna go with wheat, but snow i thought was a reference to the likeness of icing sugar to cocaine, haha...


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## srepooc xe

Yeh you guys got it,

I don't want to give away exact figuresfor the grain bill out of loyalty (and also I cant remember!) but try with some flaked wheat and also cane sugar- at least that was in the grain bill at the old Leabrook plant 10+ years ago. 

The ale yeast will attenuate down to 1.004 if its a pure culture in good condition and the sugar profile is right. A long maltose rest is a good start but you might want to try a mash out rest over 70 to make sure all the small starch granules are gelatinised. 

Good luck and now I will disappear into the anonymity of the net..........

BREWER X


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## Hutch

srepooc xe said:


> Good luck and now I will disappear into the anonymity of the net..........
> 
> BREWER X


"srepooc xe" - otherwise known as "Kaiser Soze"...
...And like that, pfff. He's gone!


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## discoloop

I've always thought Coopers should do a "Coopers Wheat" in a similar style to their sparkling, so thought I'd give this recipe a go but significantly upping the quantity of wheat. 

Has anyone done anything similar?


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## Bribie G

I tweaked the recipe and added 500g Munich 2, 100g Melanoidin, 100g wheat malt, 100g dark crystal and 10% sugaz and did a taste test with my 2 lads with a couple of tallies of Sparkling from the pub, and a couple of tallies of mine and much preferred my maltier version.

I also ended up with more 'pear' than the commercial variety. Reason I upped the malt was because it was for an Aussie Pale Ale comp but the instructions were to produce and Aussie Pale with 'a twist' so my twist was to really hike up the malt aroma. I've also entered it in the current BABBs big comp so will be interested to get feedback.


On the starter question, tallies are currently three for $15 at Liquorland and I used two tallies to get the sample. Tough job but somebody had to do it.


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## eamonnfoley

A question more related to the style than to the specific recipe (but still on topic!):

Does anyone brew this beer using different hops for bittering? I have a shirtload of EKG and pacific hallertau. I know it wont be a clone, but if I bittered with EKG or pacific hallertau, and the rest of the recipe stayed the same, I imagine I would get a decent Aussie sparkling ale? After all, its yeast driven right?

Or is it an anchor steam type style where only the traditional hops really work? Doubt that given is no flavour hopping anyway.


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## AndrewQLD

I think if your not worried about it being a clone as such then the pacific hallertau would be nice, I can see it being very refreshing. EKG would would lend a nice earthy fruitiness to the beer and would be nice too.
Give it a whirl and tell us the results.

Andrew


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## buttersd70

Andrew, do you know what hops were used at coopers prior to the development of POR?


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## eamonnfoley

AndrewQLD said:


> I think if your not worried about it being a clone as such then the pacific hallertau would be nice, I can see it being very refreshing. EKG would would lend a nice earthy fruitiness to the beer and would be nice too.
> Give it a whirl and tell us the results.
> 
> Andrew



I'll give it a go with the p.hallertau and see how it comes out. I've got a kilo of them to get through. I think they will go well in an Alt as well, which I plan to brew ASAP.


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## geoffi

discoloop said:


> I've always thought Coopers should do a "Coopers Wheat" in a similar style to their sparkling, so thought I'd give this recipe a go but significantly upping the quantity of wheat.
> 
> Has anyone done anything similar?




I am planning something like this: 50% wheat, 40% JW trad, 7% sugar, 3% crystal. OG about 1.042. Bitter to about 22IBU, ferment with Cooper's bottle yeast. I think the yeast has enough character to make it an interesting brew.


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## AndrewQLD

buttersd70 said:


> Andrew, do you know what hops were used at coopers prior to the development of POR?



EKG I would assume Butters, correct me if I'm wrong though.

You know I think Fuggles would be awesome in this recipe, that great earthiness with the bready yeast would be nice.

Andrew


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## buttersd70

AndrewQLD said:


> EKG I would assume Butters, correct me if I'm wrong though.
> 
> You know I think Fuggles would be awesome in this recipe, that great earthiness with the bready yeast would be nice.
> 
> Andrew



I really don't know either, which is why I asked. I would have assumed ekg or fuggle. You're right about the fuggle going nice with this yeast, though. I've used coopers recultured yeast a few times in simple pale beers (not clones). I've used it with Northern Brewer and fuggle in combination, when clearing bits and bobs, as well as fuggle on it's own. Noice.


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## Bribie G

I understand that Australian breweries have long had a preference for some of the USA hops such as Cluster (still used in XXXX) and would guess that the varieties grown in Tas and Victoria would have been intermingled with UK ancestors as well. POR was bred from Pride of Kent IIRC.

Feedback in the comp: it was judged nice and malty but possibly suffering a bit from age. It had been brewed for a comp a couple of months ago but never got entered so possibly it would have been judged better young. I still have a keg of it so when we connect that up to my new Kegerator on Sunday (whohooooo  ) we'll know better.


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## AndrewQLD

Wish I had a keg of it now BribieG, good to see your tweaks produced something nice, but what the? beer in a keg for a couple of months  your starting to sound like me.


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## Bribie G

AndrewQLD said:


> Wish I had a keg of it now BribieG, good to see your tweaks produced something nice, but what the? beer in a keg for a couple of months  your starting to sound like me.


Yes, bought my 4 keg deal and was about to order a kegerator when my son (I think you know about the situation IIRC) wrote his car off so he was into me for quite a few hundred dollars to top up his insurance payout. However I came into a bit of dough last Saturday cough cough so now have a couple of kegfuls hopefully nicely matured (including a superTTL )  to put in my new kegerator ex Craftbrewer. The man himself and Chappo will be installing it and the first one out of the spigot will be the Coopers. :icon_cheers:


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## AndrewQLD

buttersd70 said:


> I really don't know either, which is why I asked. I would have assumed ekg or fuggle. You're right about the fuggle going nice with this yeast, though. I've used coopers recultured yeast a few times in simple pale beers (not clones). I've used it with Northern Brewer and fuggle in combination, when clearing bits and bobs, as well as fuggle on it's own. Noice.



Butters, I just found out from Coopers that Kent hops were used originally, probably EKG, up until 1881 when NZ hops were added to the mix and we all know what happened when POR was finally developed.


Cheers
Andrew


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## Batz

AndrewQLD said:


> Butters, I just found out from Coopers that Kent hops were used originally, probably EKG, up until 1881 when NZ hops were added to the mix and we all know what happened when POR was finally developed.
> 
> 
> Cheers
> Andrew




Yes it became an Aussie Ale instead of a English copy.....and bloody good on ya too cobber :lol:  
I can imagine EKG shipped from the UK in 1881, yumbo! Fresh hops must have been so good.

Batz


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## buttersd70

AndrewQLD said:


> Butters, I just found out from Coopers that Kent hops were used originally, probably EKG, up until 1881 when NZ hops were added to the mix and we all know what happened when POR was finally developed.
> 
> 
> Cheers
> Andrew



cool. Thanks for that.


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## AndrewQLD

Batz said:


> Yes it became an Aussie Ale instead of a English copy.....and bloody good on ya too cobber :lol:
> I can imagine EKG shipped from the UK in 1881, yumbo! Fresh hops must have been so good.
> 
> Batz



Hey Batz, imagine what the Ales were like that traveled that far :icon_vomit: 
Bet the settlers would have loved the drop produced now.

Andrew


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## Bribie G

Andrew
I'm brewing more or less your version today without the Munich and Melanoidin that I used in my comp entry - however I have some malts that need using up, how do you reckon it would go with 4kg of BB Pale Pilsener plus 500g Golden Promise? I've heard of people doing Coopers attempts with pilsener malt. Also for the wheat, which I haven't got in stock, I'm doing precisely what I do with polenta and using some semolina as an adjunct, gelatinised first of course :icon_cheers: 

PS I used some semolina in a CAP that's currently fermenting because the D.I.L. flogged half of my last pack of polenta to make some Italian concoction. What a waste of good polenta  . The wort turned out lovely and clear.


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## RobboMC

foles said:


> Looks like a cracker.
> 
> When culturing a coopers bottle - is it better to use a 750ml bottle, and is it worth doing if you can't source a super fresh bottle? Best I can seem to get is best after march 09. Might be able to find a fresher one hopefully.




I had this explained to me this week in words of one syllable so I could understand.
The Pale Ale yeast has always seemed easier to culture than the Sparkling, here's why.

The Sparkling bottles are aged longer by Coopers before release, and the yeast deteriorates or dies.
The Pale Ale is always fresher from the brewery.

Longnecks are aged longer than stubbies.

The person telling me had found stubbies with a Best After date of 15th Oct and is was about Oct 20th,
so they were fresh as and cultured up great.

So search through the stubbies for Best After dates that are less than a month passed.

Also it seems to me that you're more likely to get good yeast still in the bottles in winter or spring, 
any cases coming across from Adelaide this week are sure to be fried.


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## AndrewQLD

BribieG said:


> Andrew
> I'm brewing more or less your version today without the Munich and Melanoidin that I used in my comp entry - however I have some malts that need using up, how do you reckon it would go with 4kg of BB Pale Pilsener plus 500g Golden Promise? I've heard of people doing Coopers attempts with pilsener malt. Also for the wheat, which I haven't got in stock, I'm doing precisely what I do with polenta and using some semolina as an adjunct, gelatinised first of course :icon_cheers:
> 
> PS I used some semolina in a CAP that's currently fermenting because the D.I.L. flogged half of my last pack of polenta to make some Italian concoction. What a waste of good polenta  . The wort turned out lovely and clear.



Sorry Bribie I missed this completely, obviously it's too late for my thoughts on this brew but I will give them to you anyway.
Your changes will produce a nice beer I think, the Golden promise should help to adjust the _slight_ color loss using the Pilsner malt as a base. I can't really comment too much on the semolina but considering it's made from Durum wheat I can't really see it would be a major problem, except it's not malted.
I'd be interested to hear how this turns out and what if any flavour contributions the semolina makes.
It won't be the same as my recipe but you'd think it would be in the ball park.

Cheers
Andrew


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## Mayor of Mildura

Hello Andrew

Knocking back a few of these at the moment. Going down well on a sunny Mildura Afternoon. 





I subbed out the dark crystal for some special b (all I had) and mashed at 64 (biab). 

Very nice thank you


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## PhilA

Hi AndrewQLD
I will try this recipe ,but andrew I was wondering you put 80gms of dark crystal , what would you use if you had 40l crystal instead ?, that's what I"ve have got 
Cheers Phil :icon_drunk:


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## AndrewQLD

PhilWA said:


> Hi AndrewQLD
> I will try this recipe ,but andrew I was wondering you put 80gms of dark crystal , what would you use if you had 40l crystal instead ?, that's what I"ve have got
> Cheers Phil :icon_drunk:



To be honest Phil it won't be the same. Although the dark crystal is used mainly for color adjustment it does impart some slight flavor characteristics that the lighter crystal will not match.

Cheers
Andrew


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## pyrosx

Apologies on the dead thread bump... but i'm about to start a beerday based on this recipe, and I have a quick question about the mash schedule as described in this recipe:

What's the reason for the "no mashout" specification? In this case, is it just a process thing, or does it actually play part in achieving "highly attenuative wort"?

I'm a little wary of dropping it, as my first two BIAB attempts were -well- under target gravity - and one of the (admittedly quite numerous, including the infamous "loss to trub" value in beersmith being set to 4-5L) was a skimping on the mashout stage of the mash...


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## AndrewQLD

You'll get a slightly more attenuative wort if you avoid using a mash out, it doesn't make a huge difference but from experience with this recipe every little bit counts and it is a couple of points you can shave of the F.G.

Andrew


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## pyrosx

Excellent, thank you.

Actually... while i've got the opportunity to ask: what temp would you suggest fermenting at with the re-cultured coopers bottle yeast?


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## AndrewQLD

Around 18 is what I normally stick to.


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## pyrosx

Great, 18 is what i've used in the past too - thanks for the clarification


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## Andrewbarnes83

What gives coopers sparkling its subtle sweetness? I like it.


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