# C02 Cylinder Question



## UKDavo (3/10/14)

Hey Guys,

Fairly new to home brewing but 1 thing I know, is that I do not want to bottle anymore.

Got myself a bar fridge and decided I would get a small 10litre keg to kick off with.

Found a keg setup with regulator for $250. And then I was told I needed to buy a C02 cylinder for $280.... Have I missed a trick here?

Is everyone going out and paying $280 for a gas cylinder to carb a 10lite keg?

If so, that's fine, I just want to check before I blow what seems like a lot of money.

Cheers


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## barls (3/10/14)

280 is pretty damn good for a cylinder if your buying it.
it is cheaper than renting.


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## Tahoose (3/10/14)

There's a few different roads you can go down here. 

You can naturally carb your keg (as you would with bottles) then push the beer out with a keg charger. This uses little 12g co2 bulbs. 

You can hire a c02 bottle from BOC, 

You and get a soda stream adapter for your regulator ($22-25) and use sodastream bottles $49 new $19 refills. 

You can buy the bottle outright from some one like keg king and then you just pay for refills this ends up being cheaper long term.

2.4kg - $199 / $25 refill
6kg - $249 / $50 refill 

Easiest option for most is committing to a bottle and carbonating with the co2 and gives you the flexibility to upsize later on. Horses for courses though.


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## roller997 (3/10/14)

I would check out the CO2 bottles from Keg King which are quite a bit cheaper.
They have a swap over service in place which appears to be available elsewhere in Australia.

http://www.kegking.com.au/gasbottlesandregulators.html

http://www.kegking.com.au/stores.html

$199 for a 2.6KG bottle and $249 for a 6KG bottle.
http://www.kegking.com.au/Downloads/Catalogue%20-%20Retail%20Price%20List.pdf

The bigger bottle works out at 20% cheaper CO2 ongoing, so you would have to only use 4 * 2.6KG bottles of gas refills to warrant the additional $50 in cost.

Edit: Changed the number of refills to 5 since the 6KG bottle already comes with 3.4KG of additional CO2 at the time which is worth >$30.


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## UKDavo (3/10/14)

Tahoose said:


> There's a few different roads you can go down here.
> 
> You can naturally carb your keg (as you would with bottles) then push the beer out with a keg charger. This uses little 12g co2 bulbs.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all the input guys.

Just on the Soda Stream topic, are those powerful enough to carb a 10litre keg and serve?

How long would they last?


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## n87 (3/10/14)

if you are looking at the soda stream bottle, and you dont have a soda stream, look at these:

http://www.cheekypeakbrewery.com.au/index.php/co2-gas-bottles-regulators-accessories?route=product/product&path=76&product_id=224

400g CO2 cylinder
refillable (less than half the price of a swap)
standard fitting (no adapter needed).
similar price to sodastream bottle+adapter
apparently has enough to dispense 100L+


i just got one for my mini keg dispenser fridge... works


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## UKDavo (3/10/14)

n87 said:


> if you are looking at the soda stream bottle, and you dont have a soda stream, look at these:
> 
> http://www.cheekypeakbrewery.com.au/index.php/co2-gas-bottles-regulators-accessories?route=product/product&path=76&product_id=224
> 
> ...


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## UKDavo (3/10/14)

They look awesome! So they would definitely help with the pouring.

So I guess my question, is there any way to force carb (set and leave method) without having a large c02 cylinder?

Cheers


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## n87 (3/10/14)

cant help you with that one, i have little 5L party kegs, and i naturally carb. just use the CO2 to dispense.


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## roller997 (3/10/14)

I would assume that they can be used to carbonate beer, however given the very small capacity you would probably naturally carbonate to save on the expensive CO2.

It is worth highlighting that while it sounds cheaper when you only spend $8 or $10 on a refill, the capacity is only 0.4KG, so 6.5 times smaller than the 2.6KG bottle.
This equates to $52 - $65 for an equivalent 2.6KG of CO2 and $120-$150 for a 6KG bottle of CO2. 
As mentioned above, 2.6KG is $25 and 6KG is $50 to swap and go which means that if you use a bit of CO2 to clean your kegs, carbonate and dispense it may not take all that long before you the smaller bottle isn't all that economical.

Using the 2.6KG bottle as an example:
Given that you get $44 worth of "additional" gas with the 2.6KG bottle, the difference between the $199 and $65 Sodastream bottle is approximately $90
The $90 saving would not take long to negate since before your third refill of a 2.6KG bottle you would be ahead.
The calculation doesn't take into consideration that with a swap and go system you don't have to pay to test the bottles after 10 years or the petrol spent driving to the LHBS 6 times more often for a refill.
A small bottle also means that you are >6 times more likely to run out of gas at the most inconvenient times.

On the upside, it would most likely lead you to naturally carbonate which will save you a bit of CO2

Myself, I have a Kegs on legs 6KG bottle and the swap and go as well as the economic pricing for gas with that size was definitely worth the initial investment.
I also have a 2.6KG bottle which came with my kegorator and I tend to use that more often as it is more portable. 


Edit: noticed that there was no adapter required for the .4KG bottle


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## UKDavo (3/10/14)

In all honesty, I would love to get a full C02 setup but since I'm only just getting into legging, it's a large investment.

Plus a 10l keg would take me about 3-4 weeks to polish off.

I might try this soda stream set up to start with and go from there.

So do we think one of those 400gm C02's would force carb and dispense a full 10litre keg?


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## sp0rk (3/10/14)

You have one other option, a CO2 fire extinguisher
Mine cost me $20 from a local recycling joint
Some people say you have to have them upside down or remove the internal dip tube to avoid liquid CO2 coming through the system, but I've never had that issue and I haven't had the dip tube removed
However some LHBSes aren't that keen to fill them (nfi why, it's perfectly legal)
And they require retesting at 5 years compared to the 10 for the normal Cylinders
My LHBS is happy to fill mine for me and I have a friend that does cylinder testing, so that's no problem for me
Must make sure that the thread for the outlet on the extinguisher is the same as your regulator as well


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## Tahoose (3/10/14)

Note on sodastream bottles, it you just scan the bottle and not the box it comes in they cost $19. 

If that sounds unethical to you, you can buy the bottle for $50 and then take it back when empty and swap for a full one. The swap cost is $19.

I'd naturally carbonate and dispense with the bottle if going down that route.


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## UKDavo (3/10/14)

Tahoose said:


> Note on sodastream bottles, it you just scan the bottle and not the box it comes in they cost $19.
> 
> If that sounds unethical to you, you can buy the bottle for $50 and then take it back when empty and swap for a full one. The swap cost is $19.
> 
> I'd naturally carbonate and dispense with the bottle if going down that route.


Thanks for that. How long am I looking at for natural carbing? Do you have a link to an idiots guide to natural carbing a keg?

Cheers


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## carniebrew (3/10/14)

Cheeky Peak have great prices on co2 bottles, their 2.6kg is only $150 full.
http://cheekypeakbrewery.com.au/index.php/co2-gas-bottles-regulators-accessories?route=product/product&path=76&product_id=244&sort=p.price&order=DESC

The 6.8kg one is $208 full.


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## n87 (3/10/14)

UKDavo said:


> Thanks for that. How long am I looking at for natural carbing? Do you have a link to an idiots guide to natural carbing a keg?
> 
> Cheers


afaik, a touch more than half the sugar, think of it as a bottle


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## roller997 (3/10/14)

That is a great price for large CO2 bottles.

The time to naturally carbonate should be similar to when you prime your bottles.
If you over carbonate you can release some CO2 and get it to where you want it over time.

Interesting enough, according to Cheeky Peak brewing on their 6.8KG bottle, the Sodastream CO2 bottle should dispense about 75 liters. This obviously doesn't account for any CO2 you use while cleaning the kegs and that you will naturally carbonate.


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## UKDavo (3/10/14)

Just found something on eBay which is pretty interesting!

Hampdon food grade CO2 (2.2l)
Regulator with flow meter
1m of hose.

For $117.00 including delivery.

Anyone know if that'll serve the purpose for force carbing a 10l keg?


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## TheBigD (3/10/14)

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Australian-Standard-Carbon-Dioxide-CO2-Gas-Bottle-Cylinder-1-8kg-FULL-ALUMINIUM-/291251515971?pt=AU_Food&hash=item43cff17243

another option


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## Pogierob (3/10/14)

Just so you know, it doesn't really matter what size your keg is.

you could carbonate a 50lt keg with the "soda bulbs" or the soda stream, as long as you are able to maintain a regulated pressure then the beer will absorb the c02, 

so to answer your question of "will this suit a 10lt keg?" 

the answer is yes, all of the above will work, it just depends on how you want to do it.


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## anthonyUK (3/10/14)

Jeez. The corneys may be a lot cheaper over there but C02 is expensive.
I bought a 6kg cylinder last month with no deposit for £22. This is the standard price.
Corneys on the other hand are around £70 used and £110 new (AEB).

Isn't it cheaper to import an empty cylinder and have it refilled?


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## UKDavo (3/10/14)

anthonyUK said:


> Jeez. The corneys may be a lot cheaper over there but C02 is expensive.
> I bought a 6kg cylinder last month with no deposit for £22. This is the standard price.
> Corneys on the other hand are around £70 used and £110 new (AEB).
> 
> Isn't it cheaper to import an empty cylinder and have it refilled?


Haha my misses is back home in the UK now, might see if she can smuggle back an empty CO2 bottle


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## Maheel (3/10/14)

UKDavo said:


> Haha my misses is back home in the UK now, might see if she can smuggle back an empty CO2 bottle


 untill you try to have it filled

likely to need local pressure testing and maybe wont pass aussie ADR


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## maxim0200 (4/10/14)

Another option is speed gas, $280 for the cylinder+40$ fill. That is a D size cylinder. Prices are from welding supplies here in Syd.


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## Matt Browne (4/10/14)

Or you can hire from Elgas. $8.25 a month, $20 refill on 6kg bottle and they come to you to swap the bottle over.


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## UKDavo (5/10/14)

Matt Browne said:


> Or you can hire from Elgas. $8.25 a month, $20 refill on 6kg bottle and they come to you to swap the bottle over.


Thanks man! I'll give them a call on Monday.

Their website looked like it only hired out to corporate companies :S.


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## TheBigD (5/10/14)

It will still work out cheaper to front up and buy your own bottle, unless of course you own a commercial brewery and using bulk C02


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## Mick0269 (20/10/19)

Tahoose said:


> There's a few different roads you can go down here.
> 
> You can naturally carb your keg (as you would with bottles) then push the beer out with a keg charger. This uses little 12g co2 bulbs.
> 
> ...


Hi guys Mick0269 here sorry to tell you but a full 6kg bottle is$84.95 and a 2.6kg is $74.95 as of20/10/2019 from cheeky peak. This is the best price I have found in the last 6.5 hours. Hope it helps cheers.


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