# Which Bittering Hop For An English Pale Ale



## cpsmusic (1/3/11)

Hi,

I'm planning to brew a very basic AG English pale ale using 95% pale ale malt and 5% crystal. I plan to use EKG as the aromatic hop but I'm undecided as to which hop to use for bittering. 

One option is to use EKG for bittering but I was wondering about people's opinions of other English hop varieties suitable for bittering an English pale ale.

Cheers,

Chris


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## Phoney (1/3/11)

Fuggles or Northdown.


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## Lecterfan (1/3/11)

Gday - although there were many other variables (grain and yeast), I tasted some lovely AG english pales and ESBs on the weekend that incorporated Target and Challenger. I would tell you more but things got a bit blurry after a while...


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## keifer33 (1/3/11)

US Northern Brewer is a decent bittering hop for English styles.


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## Bribie G (1/3/11)

Target, if you are too heavy handed, can give you a bitter twang - Admiral is a good hop derived from Target and is fairly neutral and a great bitterer. Challenger is my pick however, nearly all my two hop UK bitters are along the lines of Challenger/Styrians, Challenger/EKG etc .


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## cpsmusic (1/3/11)

Thanks, I'm leaning towards Challenger at the moment.


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## malt_shovel (2/3/11)

cpsmusic said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm planning to brew a very basic AG English pale ale using 95% pale ale malt and 5% crystal. I plan to use EKG as the aromatic hop but I'm undecided as to which hop to use for bittering.
> 
> ...




Northdown has made a nice IPA for me.

I have a Northdown single hop pale ale on my list to do soon. 

Cheers

:icon_chickcheers:


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## Fatgodzilla (2/3/11)

I use EKG for bittering and heaps of styrian goldings at end for a nice brew. What final IBU range you thinking off? Northdown is good, Brambling Cross (if you can find it) has been a great hop for a number of us.


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## cpsmusic (2/3/11)

Originally I was thinking of only using EKG - I'm still tossing up whether to do this or not.

I'm aiming for an IBU in the range 30-35.


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## glaab (2/3/11)

had a couple of best bitters that I used only EKG with last night and it was very tasty. The recipe is from brewing classic styles but I had to sub a couple of things, heres the recipe if anyone is interested. I was a bit worried because there isn't enough enzymes for conversion but it turned out really well. the 200g LME was to get the BG right for 5L, fg was actually 1015-16, Cheers

View attachment recipes.bsm


BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Best Bitter, Jamils , I'm not Bitter I'm thirsty
Brewer: Chris
Asst Brewer: 
Style Name: English Special or Best Bitter
Category Number: 4
Subcategory Letter: B
TYPE: Partial Mash
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 5.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.048 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.57 %
Estimated Color: 10.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 34.5 IBU
Bitterness Ratio: 0.726
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %


Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
0.20 kg Wheat Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 5.31 % 
3.00 kg Light Liquid Malt Extract [Coopers] (2.7 Extract 79.58 % 
0.23 kg Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 6.10 % 
0.23 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 6.10 % 
0.11 kg Biscuit (Dingemans) (22.5 SRM) Grain 2.92 % 
56.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.80 %] (60 min) Hops 29.7 IBU 
14.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.80 %] (20 min) Hops 4.5 IBU 
14.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.80 %] (1 min) Hops 0.3 IBU 
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Safale English Ale (Fermentis #S-04) Yeast-Ale


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## felten (2/3/11)

EKG works well, so does fuggles


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## Bribie G (2/3/11)

Until the massive big-brewery takeovers, attempts to replace cask ale with filtered pasteurised keg beers of the 1950s and 1960s, Fuggles and Goldings were the principal hops used in the UK.
The new varieties such as Target and Challenger etc came into being to make mega beers and lagers as cheaply as possible. They do have a place however as our palates have become used to them in our favourite UK beers. 

It's no coincidence that this was happening at around the same time as Pride of Ringwood was bred over here.

Nothing wrong with an all EKG / Fuggles brew but we are a little constrained in Australia as we can't get the flowers.


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## beerbrewer76543 (2/3/11)

what is a good amount of Styrians to dry hop?

I have an ESB fermenting on 1469 at the moment and a pack of styrians await... :beer:


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## RdeVjun (2/3/11)

L_Bomb said:


> what is a good amount of Styrians to dry hop?
> 
> I have an ESB fermenting on 1469 at the moment and a pack of styrians await... :beer:


"Bribie??!! ... there's someone at the door for you!"  
In all seriousness, about 1g/L dry hop should be quite OK, 2g/L is perhaps a bit OTT but you probably won't have too many regrets if you try that. :icon_drool2:


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## cpsmusic (4/3/11)

BribieG said:


> Until the massive big-brewery takeovers, attempts to replace cask ale with filtered pasteurised keg beers of the 1950s and 1960s, Fuggles and Goldings were the principal hops used in the UK.
> The new varieties such as Target and Challenger etc came into being to make mega beers and lagers as cheaply as possible. They do have a place however as our palates have become used to them in our favourite UK beers.
> 
> It's no coincidence that this was happening at around the same time as Pride of Ringwood was bred over here.
> ...



So am I right in thinking that the main reason for the introduction of higher AA bittering hops was because of cost?


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## felten (4/3/11)

Exactly, more bittering for the buck.


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## HoppingMad (4/3/11)

This needs a poll! Tastes are subjective.

But EKG is the standout. Some of the other suggestions are sound.

Fuggles? bleurch! Not a fan.


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## drsmurto (4/3/11)

BribieG said:


> Nothing wrong with an all EKG / Fuggles brew but we are a little constrained in Australia as we can't get the flowers.



Plugs are just compressed flowers Bribie :icon_cheers: 

I use target for bittering most english pale ales other than the Landlord which uses Fuggles.

Challenger and EKG also work very well.


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## gone_fishing_ (4/3/11)

Dr. Smurto,

Do you know how the plugs get into Australia v's flowers? Is it just that the plugs have been compressed and hence, kill some sort of insect/

GF


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## drsmurto (4/3/11)

gone_fishing_ said:


> Dr. Smurto,
> 
> Do you know how the plugs get into Australia v's flowers? Is it just that the plugs have been compressed and hence, kill some sort of insect/
> 
> GF



Most retailers sell plugs. If they don't, ask. I have no idea how they are treated.


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## gone_fishing_ (4/3/11)

DrSmurto said:


> Most retailers sell plugs. If they don't, ask. I have no idea how they are treated.



Seems wierd,

We have Apples from NZ, oranges from North and South America, bananas and other fruits and seafood from China and the list goes on but........only hop plugs are OK?
gf

(PS: American Northern Brewer for bittering an English ale  )


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## mika (4/3/11)

HoppingMad said:


> .....
> Fuggles? bleurch! Not a fan.



I've generally been of the same opinion, but then heard recently that Meantime Porter uses Fuggles and I rate it as one of the best beers I've ever tasted.
I kinda want to revisit Fuggles, but can't bring myself to brew 20L if I get that same earthy/mushroom flavour.


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## gone_fishing_ (4/3/11)

Mika,

i agree.....English hops = DIRT hops


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## manticle (4/3/11)

EKG =dirt?

Challenger?

First Gold?

Love them all myself.


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## Pumpy (4/3/11)

There is only one English Bittering hop in my opinion that is 'Target'

pumpy


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## Rurik (4/3/11)

I rate Pilgrim. It reminds me a lot of Challenger but with a higher AA%.


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## rotten (5/3/11)

Have personnally only brewed 10+ brews with these hops, but I really liked Fuggles and EKG.


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## speedie (5/3/11)

plugs fit through the hole in the pommy cast conditioned barrels
never use these as brewing aids more for dry hopping (as opposde 2 ferment hopping)
do your best
go the golden ale kid (cundon)


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## Bizier (5/3/11)

As far as I know, the pressure of 'plugging' the hops through an extrusion die creates sufficient heat to negate quarantine issues, thus we get US cascade plugs and not flowers.

And Mika, I am right behind you on the fuggles tip, I dislike any beer I can taste fuggles in. I have bought it once only, and think it is waaaay too earthy. If some yeast byproducts can cost points in comp, so should fuggles. That actually makes me want to see if I can brew a beer I like with fuggles.

I use target for my UK bittering if not using EKG, but it is only because I ran out of northdown and have been slowly chewing through a kilo of the stuff. I would prefer northdown by an ENGLISH mile. Baaaaa hahahaha. OK, I have had my fun.


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## mje1980 (5/3/11)

I love brewing UK ales, but for a while i have gone to a neutral high AA hop for my bittering addition, galena. I'll be stuffed if i can pick a flavour. I tried target a while ago, but i found the bitterness harsh. Maybe im tight, but i save my EKG, challenger ( yummo ), First gold ( Ducks nuts ) etc for late in the boil where i get more flavour and aroma.


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## Fatgodzilla (5/3/11)

L_Bomb said:


> what is a good amount of Styrians to dry hop?
> 
> I have an ESB fermenting on 1469 at the moment and a pack of styrians await... :beer:




I use about 60g of styrian, 50g in cube and 30g in fermenter in a basic ale. Not direct to fermenter - I use a coffee plunger to act as a filter. It does depend on the style of ale though, the stronger the ale the more styrian I go for. It won't add bitterness, is an aroma addition.


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## HoppingMad (7/3/11)

Fuggles should only be used in beers called 'Victa', 'Masport' or 'Honda'. 
Because what you wind up drinking tastes like the clippings from a lawnmower catcher.
Grassy, earthy, woody - yep, lawn clippings.
I wonder if anyone has actually hopped a beer with lawn clippings? If they did then if might taste like a beer using fuggles. :lol: 

EKG all the way. I have old timers in my club who've brewed great stuff for 30 years or more and that's all they use in all their beers. Tried and true, dependable, nice soft bittering and flavour that's hard to get wrong in various amounts. A reliable hop that's great to have handy in the brew inventory. 

Hopper.


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## np1962 (7/3/11)

gone_fishing_ said:


> (PS: American Northern Brewer for bittering an English ale  )


If you must use Northern Brewer (as I often do) it MUST be German NB.
American NB should only be used in a Steam Beer IMO
Nige


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## drsmurto (7/3/11)

I love Fuggles :wub: 

Use it as the only hop in many of my porters and stouts.

Also use in combination with EKG or styrians in classic bitters :chug:


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## manticle (7/3/11)

I don't understand the anti-fuggles brigade either.

Earthiness and porter or stout works fine and dandy. Good in an esb with EKG.


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## Brad Churchill (7/3/11)

I am also a fan of fuggles.
Though I will admit I dry hopped with them for the first time a couple of brews ago and when I tried the beer at two weeks it did have an aroma and taste like mouldy hay.

However this brew is around 6 weeks old now and that earthy musty aroma and flavour has gone.
I really think those who don't like the taste of fuggles by itself should try it as a late hop along with say EKG to get just a hint of that fuggle flavour in the background. Yummo

My thoughts on fuggles anyway.

Cheers Brad


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## achy02 (7/3/11)

Brad C said:


> I am also a fan of fuggles.
> Though I will admit I dry hopped with them for the first time a couple of brews ago and when I tried the beer at two weeks it did have an aroma and taste like mouldy hay.
> 
> However this brew is around 6 weeks old now and that earthy musty aroma and flavour has gone.
> ...



Does Northern Brewer give off the same earthy / mouldy hay taste? Has anyone experienced this?


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## Bizier (7/3/11)

achy said:


> Does Northern Brewer give off the same earthy / mouldy hay taste? Has anyone experienced this?


Nope. I bloody love NB. It gives a definite woody character that persists, but it is pleasant and kind of a clean woody flavour. I've only used GER though. I sub for POR.

That is my preference bad based on my experience.


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## rude (7/3/11)

Last 2 bitters I used plugs, fuggles ekg then threw some pellets, styrians in the cube

Plugs made it that extra bit special in my opinion real smooth & the fuggles didnt spoil it for me


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## HoppingMad (8/3/11)

Agree that Northern Brewer gives off some earthiness but without the herbal grassy thing. Sometimes you almost get a vanilla flavour that's reminiscent of Stryian Goldings. Thumbs up on Northern Brewer. Didn't comment on this hop because I am using US Northern Brewer. Also have some Bramling Cross (a UK hop) from one of the sponsors which I've never used, so interested in anyone's thoughts on that one and how it's come up for them.

Mouldy hay and fuggles is an apt description. Those saying it's great combined with other hops - just try it without that hop and you've got a better beer.  

I am possibly being a tad harsh on the Fug though - to be honest I have done some english bitters with Fuggle straight through and they have come up very nice. It's just a hop that often you can't serve in a beer fresh as the lawn/hay flavour can be too much. That's what's annoyed me about it in the past.

Hopper.


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## mika (8/3/11)

mje1980 said:


> I love brewing UK ales, but for a while i have gone to a neutral high AA hop for my bittering addition, galena. I'll be stuffed if i can pick a flavour......



Galena's not bad, been a couple of years since I last used it. It does have a fairly distinct flavour, but it's been that long I can't remember how to describe it. A good choice though.

Anyone used Pioneer ?


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## dimiphoto (18/3/11)

Ive got a 3.5kg golden promise , 1 kg light munich with styrian goldings @ 60m on the boil right now. My mate put me onto the styrian and i am using it for the first time. cant wait.

buuuuurp !


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## donburke (30/4/11)

dimiphoto said:


> Ive got a 3.5kg golden promise , 1 kg light munich with styrian goldings @ 60m on the boil right now. My mate put me onto the styrian and i am using it for the first time. cant wait.
> 
> buuuuurp !




is this the same mate you met in 'nam ?


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## dimiphoto (1/5/11)

nope....this mate i met in a thai massage bath house.


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