# Beating Those Grains



## boobiedazzler (9/7/10)

NickJD has previously championed the use of a coffee-grinder to prepare grains for a BIAB mash. While I have never been entirely comfortable with the idea of five kg's of dust, inclusive of husk powder, there has been occasion where I have whipped up some grain with this method. 

But let's think about some of the other power tools in the kitchen. About a year or so ago I received quite a few kilos of base grain which I asked to be 'fine cracked'. For whatever reason, it came to me 'coarse cracked', quite the opposite of my request. It wasn't a problem though, I whizzed it up in the food processor and it then looked to be a satisfactory crack. 

So this gave me the idea that I could start buying some uncracked grains, and prepare as required. The first failure with this was a few weeks ago, when I tried to prepare a kilo of matled wheat. Apart from about 15% of the processing pot, those husks refused to crack. 

Fast-forward to this evening, I just finished roasting a kilo of pale grain for 90 minutes at 100 degrees, with occasional hand-shovel (malt shovel's younger, cruder sister) turning, and took a decent sample into the same food processor, thinking that wheat husks are tougher than barkey husks, so I could repeat my early succes with the 'coarse cracked' experiment. No such luck. Doesn't frikking do much. Tried different volumes in the 'pot' too, from 50g to about 400g and all parts in between. 

What to do, I have a baking tray full of beautifully buiscuty fresh roasred malted barley in front of me, but need to crack the buggers before tomorrow morning. The mind is going back to the coffee-grinder method. OK, it's only 1/5th of the total mash, with no worries about stuck sparges, but the self-discovered undesirable in the process for me lately is goddamn trub. And we're talking pre-ferment here. So pulerised husk powder isn't high on my list of repeatables. 

But wait ! Bobbie has a blender ! Not just any old blender, but a big, heavy duty testosterone machine that makes me wimper like a shcoolgirl when I lay my eyes upon it. It doesnt get much use, because mostly I am too much in awe of it's poweful demeanour. This kitchen gadget is from the school that brought us James Dean, Evil Kinevil and Arthur Fonzerelli. Needless to say, it has a glass jug. a THICK glass jug. Pee Wee Herman could never lift this bastard of it's cradle to serve you a smoothie, evn with both hands on the handle. <walks away><walks back> I just weighed it with the brew scales, and the jug is roughly 2.3 kilos in weight.<walks away><walks back> The base, ie the motor unit and controls, weighs in a about 2.8 kilos. 

SO how does it perform ? Earlier I fisted in about 200 grams and hit 'pulse' for a count of 10 seconds (using the onethousand, twothouand, threthousand method of time) and the still warm grain was totally demolished. Ok, not totally, it wasnt 100% baby powder, but most of it was. Eactly what I think my cheapo coffe grinder would do. 

Nest batch, I got all cocky and put twice as much in. It ended up a mixture of powder, but at least 50% was uncracked, untouched. Wizz a bit more, still no joy. 

So I tried another 200g or so, reducing the last volume by half, and the same as the original whirl. This time for five seconds. The result ? A beautiful crack, finer than a 'shop crack' but with the same amount of untouched grains, that is not many at all. I repeated the volume and the pulse time a few times more, and would say that it produces a really good crack. I wish I could take some photos, but words will have to suffice. 

Right now, I am giving a big thumbs up for my own discovery of having a pre-existing peice of apparatus that will no doubt become my new friend on a brewday prep.


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## NickB (10/7/10)

Has been discussed many, _many_ times in the past. 

General consensus is that it works for small amounts, and works if it's your only option, but tends to make too much dust to do a full batch with (unless you BIAB, then it's not really an issue) as you have issues sparging. A proper mill designed to crush the endosperm and leave the husk of the grain intact will give you much more consistent and repeatable results.

Cheers


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## bum (10/7/10)

I'm envisioning three responses based on experience of similar threads in the past. The first is that a rolling pin would probably give you more control over your desired crush. The second is that some might not like your desired crush. The third is tl;dr.

I guess another potential response is "Cool story, brah".

[EDIT: I cannot believe it took me 3 minutes to write that]


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## boobiedazzler (10/7/10)

Sure, belittle the first-hand experience if you must. 

That is, MY first-hand experience, with the grey-hat open observation of how it performs. I am not suggesting that a big, manly blender will supercede a home-mill setup, but with the right understanding of the devices capabilities in relation to cracking grain, I might suggest that it's a viable option, of the usre understands the relevance of 'chopping time'. 

To throw it out there, Im gonna say that I could probably 'crush' a full grain bill in 5 minutes, and have the mix looking like milled cereal.


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## bum (10/7/10)

boobiedazzler said:


> Sure, belittle the first-hand experience if you must.


 Sure, assume I am belittling you even though my post _explicitly_ relates to my observations of previous threads. 

As Nick B has already pointed out, this has been done to death and only certain "guerrilla" brewers have anything positive to say about the consistency and repeatability of the crush from this method. But, shit, if it works for you keep doing it.


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## rendo (10/7/10)

Hey BD,

Good story, thanks for sharing. What brand/model blender do you have. Maybe you can post that here so i/We can google it to have a look. Pics of the grain would have been sweet. Oh well, next time maybe?

I have a breville blender, similar to the one pictured at the link below. Although mine is a bit beefier, bigger jug, kinda a scary powerful beasty thingy with jaws of death type things

http://www.johnlewis.com/jl_assets/product/230212457.jpg

rendo



boobiedazzler said:


> But wait ! Bobbie has a blender ! Not just any old blender, but a big, heavy duty testosterone machine that makes me wimper like a shcoolgirl when I lay my eyes upon it. It doesnt get much use, because mostly I am too much in awe of it's poweful demeanour. This kitchen gadget is from the school that brought us James Dean, Evil Kinevil and Arthur Fonzerelli. Needless to say, it has a glass jug. a THICK glass jug. Pee Wee Herman could never lift this bastard of it's cradle to serve you a smoothie, evn with both hands on the handle. <walks away><walks back> I just weighed it with the brew scales, and the jug is roughly 2.3 kilos in weight.<walks away><walks back> The base, ie the motor unit and controls, weighs in a about 2.8 kilos.


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## felten (10/7/10)

I blend, sieve, and blend again.

edit: oh and tldr


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## boobiedazzler (10/7/10)

bum said:


> <br /> Sure, assume I am belittling you even though my post <i>explicitly</i> relates to my observations of previous threads. <br /><br /> As Nick B has already pointed out, this has been done to death and only certain &quot;guerrilla&quot; brewers have anything positive to say about the consistency and repeatability of the crush from this method. But, shit, if it works for you keep doing it.<br />


<br /><br /><br />

Whoa up there, cowboy. I only shared my observations for the purpose of expressing another point of view in an otherwise barren, book/net -smart assumption based majority mindset. Somewhere in my rant I suggested that the best-scenario crush ability of this megablendmachine was on par with a modern traditional crush. 

Rendo, your sample looks like a pussy. Even though you talk your one up. 

Does anyone else drink too much of their own brews and attempt to write shit on the internets? 

My ass is all laughed out. Or, for the kids, MAILO !


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## boobiedazzler (10/7/10)

Behold the power. 

http://www.brevilleusa.com/media/catalog/p...l550xl-zoom.jpg


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## rendo (10/7/10)

nice blender, its the newer model from my one. Its a about 100W or so more powerful, about the same capacity glass, maybe smaller...cant remember, either way, not too much in them. SWEET. I might give my blender a go next time, even though I am happy with the coffee grinder. I guess if it doesnt work I can just dump it all thru the coffee grinder.....

BIAB of course...


rendo



boobiedazzler said:


> Behold the power.
> 
> http://www.brevilleusa.com/media/catalog/p...l550xl-zoom.jpg


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## Thirsty Boy (10/7/10)

Always nice to have a back up option anyway... worth an experiment every now and again. Besides, while most of the alternative crush methods have indeed been talked to death... the different requirements for BIAB crushing makes it not too odious going over them again... different sized problem, so old clothes from the back of the cupboard might fit after all.

One word of warning - learn from my experience on this one....

If you think that perhaps your electric meat mincer might - maybe - if you are lucky - do some sort of a job of reducing grain to grist. Well - what happens is no grain comes out, your mincer makes a loud thump/crack noise and you you not only don't crush any grain, you throw your mincer in the bin.

I now have a shitty little hand mincer... it came with a coffee grinder attachment that I haven't yet tried (gun-shy) but I suspect will give an appropriate crush for BIAB. $25 or thereabouts off evil bay and maybe a faster if not necessarily better option than blenders or little electric coffee grinders.

TB


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## boobiedazzler (10/7/10)

Is the word you're looking for "Corona"? Poor you, but at least your dominant arm would be muscley. (sp?)

Moving right along... There is no way I would ever do a BIAB with 5kg of dust.

Just to be clear, OK bruddah?


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## boobiedazzler (10/7/10)

bum said:


> my post <i>explicitly</i> relates to my observations of previous threads.



That's the beauty of a paranoid mind, hey bum? Personalities bounce all over the shop. 

You are drifting off-topic.


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## unrealeous (10/7/10)

Well I thought it was a lovely story, and after reading it, I am now stroking my grain mill lovingly


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## MHB (10/7/10)

There are just so many things I would like to say but let's start with

WHEAT DOESN'T HAVE A HUSK, your OP just went downhill from there, as have your responses to the replies received.

Thankfully brewing is a natural process, it almost wants to happen right if you let it, a bit of basic knowledge will make brewing a lot easier. You don't want or need to reduce the grain too much (even for BIAB) the grist must be reasonably permeable so you can drain the liquor out when you pull the bag, if for no other reason. A good mill will crush the grain to a fine free draining kibble and still keep the husk relatively intact, a food processor is going to reduce everything.

MHB


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## Trent (10/7/10)

2 things come to mind for me when reading your post, and neither of them have anything to do with my opinions on the coffee grinder crushing!
1)- I am pretty sure that wheat doesnt have husks. 
2)- I am also pretty sure that after you make your own toasted malts, you should put them in a brown paper bag and leave them to age for a week or so, to allow any unwanted volatile flavours and shit to dissipate.
Good luck with the blender method, I'm sure it will do a fine job.
T.


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## manticle (10/7/10)

When I first started playing with cracking small amounts of grain for steeping, I tried the coffee grinder.

Pain in the balls as far as I'm concerned - in order to get what looked like a decent crush I had to put very small amounts in and whizz very quickly. I was not using a bag so dust was not great in my steep/mini-mash.

It will work for you if you have no other options - as might your blender or a wooden rolling pin (I tried cracking around 3 kg of pilsner for a partial with a rolling pin - ended up with a wooden mallet and the malt in 4 plastic bags, took more than 2 hours to get most of the malt looking like it was cracked and got an amazing 40% efficiency) or a mortar and pestle.

I think it was around this time I started looking at options like grain mills since that's what they are actually designed for. I understand the need for budgets and respect the lateral thinker but I'd much rather my trusty corona and a bit of exercise in the morning than using another kitchen appliance designed for something else. This is from my first hand experience too.

Easy mistake to make about the wheat I guess but maybe a bit more reading should be done.


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## sandjeep457 (10/7/10)

a rolling pin would probably give you more control over your desired crush.


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## bcp (10/7/10)

:icon_offtopic: warning - off topic.

Please! 

Before posting anything - 
1. Please read all prescribed texts.
2. Conduct a literature review of previous posts on AHB, and submit a 3 page summary.
3. Don't post anything we already know unless it rates at least 4-5 on the Mocha Pan Scale of 'interesting to us.' You'll find that helpful little scale in the Brewing Calcs section.
4. Please check the 'done to death' blacklist. This is airlocked in the forum section.

This little bit of effort on your part will help us, because you have to remember that most of us couldn't be arsed or don't know how to just skip over anything that we already know and are tired of hearing. 



[Ok, having said that i do see the other side of the argument too. But once i got started i kinda liked the irony.]


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## Creedy (10/7/10)

(Exits Lurking Mode)
I'm also wondering about using home appliances for grain crushing.
I've been considering using a coffee grinder aswell, but not one of the "spinny blade" types, one of the "conical burr" type grinders.

Linky!

$90 bucks for a cheap one, I've got a little hand one that I might try later and see how consistent it is, but I've been using it as a spice grinder so it's probably only good for experimentation. It does give a nice even grind though so worth looking at.

has anyone had any experience using this type of doover?

Cheers,
Creedy


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## stillscottish (10/7/10)

Before I could afford a grain mill I was using a (Sunbeam?) conical burr grinder. Removed the end stop and wound out the gap to suit then gaffed it so it wouldn't move. It only did about 200gm at a time and got a bit hot but did a pretty reasonable job till I could afford something better.

Edit: Just looked at the link and I think it's an older model of that one I have (it's in the garage and I'm at work) and this post reminds me that I need to start using it for spices.

Cheers


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## winkle (10/7/10)

:icon_offtopic: 
Somebody on here tried crushing grain between sheets of 3 ply and driving a VW over them. Was it Bonj?


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## boobiedazzler (10/7/10)

bcp said:


> <br /><img src="http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/icon_offtopic.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":icon_offtopic:" border="0" alt="icon_offtopic.gif" /> warning - off topic.<br /><br />Please! <br /><br />Before posting anything - <br />1. Please read all prescribed texts.<br />2. Conduct a literature review of previous posts on AHB, and submit a 3 page summary.<br />3. Don't post anything we already know unless it rates at least 4-5 on the Mocha Pan Scale of 'interesting to us.' You'll find that helpful little scale in the Brewing Calcs section.<br />4. Please check the 'done to death' blacklist. This is airlocked in the forum section.<br /><br />This little bit of effort on your part will help us, because you have to remember that most of us couldn't be arsed or don't know how to just skip over anything that we already know and are tired of hearing. <br /><br /><br /><br />[Ok, having said that i do see the other side of the argument too. But once i got started i kinda liked the irony.]<br />


<br /><br /><br />

I'm glad you commented, it's certainly given me some much-required guidance, and I'm much richer for experiencing your words. 

I LOL'd that it took so long for anyone to pick up on the little test I crafted into the Op about wheat. Bravo as usual to MHB for his comprehension. You other knuckleheads could learn a lot from this guy.


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## Nick JD (10/7/10)

Coffee grinders rock for BIAB grain bills under 5kg. I get > 80% efficiency with a very fine flour and no issues with bag draining. 

Takes about 3 minutes to grind 1kg so my usual 3kg grain bill takes under ten minutes and I don't have to turn anything. 

I'm not saying it's perfect for all situations, but it works perfectly for my situation. 

I often do 100% wheat beers with no issues whatsoever. 

Try it - if it's not for you then buy a big expensive mill - try one of the retailers on this site and get your back into it.


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## boobiedazzler (10/7/10)

Nick JD said:


> if it's not for you then buy a big expensive mill



Sure, and join the ranks of those brewers who insist that there's only one way to skin a cat.


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## manticle (10/7/10)

50 ways to skin a cat. Use whichever one you want.

Make threads about it and invite comment. Pretty simple.

Whatever works for you mate.


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## bcp (10/7/10)

boobiedazzler said:


> <br /><br /><br />
> 
> I'm glad you commented, it's certainly given me some much-required guidance, and I'm much richer for experiencing your words.
> 
> I LOL'd that it took so long for anyone to pick up on the little test I crafted into the Op about wheat. Bravo as usual to MHB for his comprehension. You other knuckleheads could learn a lot from this guy.



My comment was in your support, but obviously wasn't worth the effort. 

Yes, every stupid thing i've ever said is really just to test all the knuckleheads around me too. 

For Creedy - If you have a grinder at home and it works, fine, but spending $90 you're well on the way to a decent grain crusher. I like my monster mill.


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## boobiedazzler (10/7/10)

That's what you get for taking sides, bcp. A kick in the goolies. 

The point is, if we distance ourselves from all the book-weary bullshit that the 'experts' insist on rattling off every time a member dares buck conventional 'wisdom' (rolls eyes), is that I believe that I could do a 'crush' on par with a mill, for all intents and purposes of using in an efficient BIAB bill. I'm not advocating a powder crush either. 

Will a photographic essay assist the naysayers in being convinced that a blender crack is a completely valid methodology? Doubtful, hard heads are often impenetrable to new ideas. 

Me, Nick and other trendsetters really should have our own subforum here called "New Dogs, New Tricks, Beyond Tomorrow" so the old-schoolers know exactly where not to click when surfing the forum. Really, we're just wasting your time with this kooky talk of reinventing the wheel. Our shitty, undrinkable pillowcase beer is a testament to that. 

Sorry Nick, for speaking on your behalf. I mean it with lots of love, sort of in the way a sister loves a brother (not in a Tasmanian way though, that's just sick)


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## manticle (10/7/10)

Jesus. Pull your head in. You cracked some grains using a blender after ******* around for an hour and reckon it looks OK. That's great but you haven't rediscovered penicillin.

Lots of people here have thought laterally, used new/old tricks etc etc etc. It ain't just you or Nick JD that's tried something else.

Using a blender is great but being a complete arsewipe about how good it makes you is not.

Trendsetter? Go for your life mate.


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## boobiedazzler (10/7/10)

manticle said:


> That's great but you haven't rediscovered penicillin.



Haven't I, Manticle ? Haven't I ?


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## boobiedazzler (10/7/10)

It's so easy to wind you clowns up.


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## manticle (10/7/10)

Which is amazing - annoying strangers on the internet. **** penicillin or even new ways of cracking grain when you can do that! Do you pull yourself with your right hand or your left when you think someone's shirty on a different computer?


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## Trent (10/7/10)

Huh, it was all a joke! You did do a very good job of making yourself sound like you had no clue about brewing, excellent in fact. You made us all look really stupid. Bravo. 
Although I can hardly believe you were willing to write such a long post as a joke. Very impressive, you deserve your own sub-thread.
T.


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## bum (10/7/10)

Wow. That's the second time in a week this board has made manticle crack. Perhaps the old dudes are right and this board isn't worth saving anymore.

Boobie did a good job of isolating the biggest problem here (and before he gets all self-important, it isn't him).


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## Screwtop (10/7/10)

manticle said:


> Jesus. Pull your head in. You cracked some grains using a blender after ******* around for an hour and reckon it looks OK. That's great but you haven't rediscovered penicillin.
> 
> Lots of people here have thought laterally, used new/old tricks etc etc etc. It ain't just you or Nick JD that's tried something else.
> 
> ...






manticle said:


> Which is amazing - annoying strangers on the internet. **** penicillin or even new ways of cracking grain when you can do that! Do you pull yourself with your right hand or your left when you think someone's shirty on a different computer?





 Manti's chucked a Tanti 

Had to happen eventually :lol:

Screwy


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## jyo (10/7/10)

boobiedazzler said:


> the little test I crafted into the Op about wheat.



I am honestly trying to work out why you would do this :blink: :blink: :blink: 
Maybe a cloze activity next?


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## manticle (10/7/10)

Screwtop said:


> Manti's chucked a Tanti
> 
> Had to happen eventually :lol:
> 
> Screwy



Manticle is happy as a little lamb.


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## rendo (10/7/10)

ahhhhhhhhh, post edited....BD says it all.....



boobiedazzler said:


> Does anyone else drink too much of their own brews and attempt to write shit on the internets?


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## Hatchy (10/7/10)

rendo said:


> ahhhhhhhhh, post edited....BD says it all.....



I liked the previous post better.


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## bum (10/7/10)

He was directing that comment elsewhere, Rendo. You're crediting him with too much self-awareness.


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## DangerousDave (10/7/10)

guys its an obvious troll 

look at the pretty picture


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## Yob (10/7/10)

somebody should give bd a glass of vegemite home brew for a sample maybe.. we _*may*_ respect forthcoming taste reviews  

Really.. get a effing life..


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## rendo (10/7/10)

yeah, so did I....  all gone now




Hatchy said:


> I liked the previous post better.


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## tavas (10/7/10)

bum said:


> Wow. That's the second time in a week this board has made manticle crack. Perhaps the old dudes are right and this board isn't worth saving anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## yardy (10/7/10)

i can't believe i just dragged myself through 3 pages of shite

the ******* gene pool needs filtering of these arse wipes..


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## bonj (10/7/10)

winkle said:


> :icon_offtopic:
> Somebody on here tried crushing grain between sheets of 3 ply and driving a VW over them. Was it Bonj?


LOL :lol: Actually I did try it with a cane toad once, but the little bugger just hopper away after... 
Cane toad 1, VW 0


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## QldKev (10/7/10)

boobiedazzler said:


> That's what you get for taking sides, bcp. A kick in the goolies.
> 
> The point is, if we distance ourselves from all the book-weary bullshit that the 'experts' insist on rattling off every time a member dares buck conventional 'wisdom' (rolls eyes), is that I believe that I could do a 'crush' on par with a mill, for all intents and purposes of using in an efficient BIAB bill. I'm not advocating a powder crush either.
> 
> ...



maybe you should call it 'fu%^*ng idiots who won't listen'

seriously we have been though this 'invention phase' before you and you don't want to listen to experience.... banging heads against a brick wall!

QldKev


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## bonj (10/7/10)

You could just put him on ignore... sort of like your own personal sin-bin button.


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## Mantis (10/7/10)

Hope Manticle has a good HB in hand


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## jakub76 (10/7/10)

Mantis, I gotta say I LOVE your avatar picture. Someone you know? As for OP, not a lot of useful info...pictures do tell bla bla...lots of interesting drama to keep us engaged but at what cost...not sure bobbie's gonna get too many invites to the next brew day or pub crawl. 
The wheat thing, sometimes you just got to own up and say "oh yeah, I f***ed up". This forum is all about learning, not shit-stirring.
Cheers


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## matho (10/7/10)

The major reason that people buy a mill is that you can load up the hopper turn it on and in about 2 to 5 mins you have 5+ kg of grain crushed to what you like, if you want to stand around 'beating' 200g at a time go for it but I think I'll stay with my mill thanks.

Cheers matho


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## browndog (10/7/10)

And the Lord said "*Feed not the trolls, good brewers of AHB"*


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## felten (11/7/10)

I'm not sure if the OP was at least trying to be half serious or not, I don't see how it can be a joke as it isn't funny. Like many others I'm sure, I also updated my ignore list, ignorance is bliss.

ps. <3 Manticle


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## warra48 (11/7/10)

OP is on my ignore list.
The first and only, so far.


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## Screwtop (11/7/10)

yardy said:


> i can't believe i just dragged myself through 3 pages of shite
> 
> the ******* gene pool needs filtering of these arse wipes..






QldKev said:


> maybe you should call it 'fu%^*ng idiots who won't listen'
> 
> seriously we have been though this 'invention phase' before you and you don't want to listen to experience.... banging heads against a brick wall!
> 
> QldKev




Not only Manticle, he's upset the Yard and Kev too :lol: :lol: frikkin gold!!

Screwy


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## bradsbrew (11/7/10)

I thought for a bit that Boobidazler might be Darren in disguise.............but i would rather read Darrens posts to be honest!

At least darren actully had some good information between the bullshit.


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## QldKev (11/7/10)

Screwtop said:


> Not only Manticle, he's upset the Yard and Kev too :lol: :lol: frikkin gold!!
> 
> Screwy


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## Screwtop (11/7/10)

Maybe we should send him a card, he may be feeling a little down.


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## bonj (11/7/10)




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## brettprevans (11/7/10)

The op has been addressed regardless of intention.
Wheat has no husk
alternative cracking methods covered to death elsewhere
some fkn funny cartoons have been posted
some people have been educated about the ignore user function

close the thread. Simple


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## bum (11/7/10)

Then go out and burn all the books that say things you don't like.


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## chappo1970 (11/7/10)

boobiedazzler said:


> It's so easy to wind you clowns up.



The only clown is you mate  . Besides what pleasure or benefit can you get from stirring the pot?

Put some of your "beer" on the table and then lets discuss how great and innovative you think you are.


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## yardy (11/7/10)

Screwtop said:


> Not only Manticle, he's upset the Yard and Kev too :lol: :lol: frikkin gold!!
> 
> Screwy



hangover from hell yesty...


nice post chappo B)


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## Nick JD (11/7/10)

I've seen my name mentioned in the same sentence as the word trendsetter - I'm nothing of the sort. 

The 25,000 views of that thread are not due to any originality on my part. The only original thing I did was remove the words "sparge", "tun", "grist" etc and replace them with words like, "bung", "hole" and "bucket".


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## Pennywise (11/7/10)

Ha ha, ha you said hole


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## bconnery (11/7/10)

Chappo said:


> Besides what pleasure or benefit can you get from stirring the pot?



I find it aids in forming a kind of whirlpool to remove the hops and other break material at the end of the boil...


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## Pennywise (11/7/10)

boobiedazzler said:


> Right now, I am giving a big thumbs up for my own discovery of having a pre-existing peice of apparatus that will no doubt become my new friend on a brewday prep.


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## Nevalicious (11/7/10)

boobiedazzler said:


> <br /><br /><br />
> 
> I'm glad you commented, it's certainly given me some much-required guidance, and I'm much richer for experiencing your words.



Clearly you dont need the guidance... You know it all...



boobiedazzler said:


> Me, Nick and other trendsetters really should have our own subforum here called "New Dogs, New Tricks, Beyond Tomorrow" so the old-schoolers know exactly where not to click when surfing the forum. Really, we're just wasting your time with this kooky talk of reinventing the wheel. Our shitty, undrinkable pillowcase beer is a testament to that.



Hmmm, maybe you shouldn't put yourself in the ranks of ppl like Nick... His informative posts (albeit the right or the wrong method 'traditionally') are helpful, yours is not... PS, you didn't slip that trick into the OP, you cocked up??!! PPS, you're a twat mate!!!


----------



## boobiedazzler (12/7/10)

manticle said:


> Do you pull yourself with your right hand or your left when you think someone's shirty on a different computer?



WRONG ! I am not built like you blokes. I am a lady. Well, very vague terminology, but i dont have one of those playthings of my own to love and to stroke like you do, Manticle. 

I came here to meet like-minded males but very quickly determined that there are so many self-righteous assholes amongst you, that I figured this was the way to behave here. Sadly the rules of rudeness only apply to established members. Another example of the sheer gaul here is that I received a 600+ word essay from an established member basicaly belittling NickJD to me in private. Why should I be advised with so many words on how to think about another member ? It all seemed a bit sneaky to me - why should one member be advised in private on another member's MO, strictly the opinion of the author of course ? The member nor the words ever need to become public, but I suspect the author will feel the need to defend them (but seriously, buddy, you dont have to)

I really thought there would be some cool guys here, and while there are a few, the KNOB quotent is very high as well. 

Keep having fun pulling each other off.


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## bum (12/7/10)

We didn't want you in our He-man Woman Haters Club anyway.

It does explain the ardent desire to use kitchen implements to make beer though.


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## manticle (12/7/10)

boobiedazzler said:


> WRONG ! I am not built like you blokes. I am a lady. Well, very vague terminology, but i dont have one of those playthings of my own to love and to stroke like you do, Manticle.
> 
> I came here to meet like-minded males but very quickly determined that there are so many self-righteous assholes amongst you, that I figured this was the way to behave here. Sadly the rules of rudeness only apply to established members. Another example of the sheer gaul here is that I received a 600+ word essay from an established member basicaly belittling NickJD to me in private. Why should I be advised with so many words on how to think about another member ? It all seemed a bit sneaky to me - why should one member be advised in private on another member's MO, strictly the opinion of the author of course ? The member nor the words ever need to become public, but I suspect the author will feel the need to defend them (but seriously, buddy, you dont have to)
> 
> ...



Point is you seem to have started acting like one.

I couldn't give a rat's arse about your PMs - that's between you and whoever sent it.

Most people here just want to talk about beer, make better beer and help others make better beer. Nothing else to prove. It's an online community and like any single other one you'd care to name there'll be some self righteousness, dick pulling and all round shitty human behaviour. There'll also be some good stuff.

Apologies for getting your gender wrong - usually I don't assume but the question stands. Getting excited about 'winding clowns up' by acting like a tit is not the most worthwhile pursuit in the world.


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## MHB (12/7/10)

The first half dozen responses to your OP were polite and informative and I suggest quite patient; you replies could at best be regarded as hostile.

If youre unhappy with the treatment you received - you can only blame yourself.

MHB


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## Thirsty Boy (12/7/10)

boobiedazzler said:


> WRONG ! I am not built like you blokes. I am a lady. Well, very vague terminology, but i dont have one of those playthings of my own to love and to stroke like you do, Manticle.
> 
> I came here to meet like-minded males but very quickly determined that there are so many self-righteous assholes amongst you, that I figured this was the way to behave here. Sadly the rules of rudeness only apply to established members. Another example of the sheer gaul here is that I received a 600+ word essay from an established member basicaly belittling NickJD to me in private. Why should I be advised with so many words on how to think about another member ? It all seemed a bit sneaky to me - why should one member be advised in private on another member's MO, strictly the opinion of the author of course ? The member nor the words ever need to become public, but I suspect the author will feel the need to defend them (but seriously, buddy, you dont have to)
> 
> ...



That would have been me then -- feel free to publicly post what I sent you in private. I stand by what I said in any medium you care to name and wont bother to defend my words.. they can stand for themselves.

My only regret is not recognising you for what you are - and feeling the need to send you any communication at all. Misunderstanding rectified now.


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## bum (12/7/10)

Please don't let this be a case of once bitten twice shy, Thirsty. Your detailed input here is absolutely invaluable.

Yes, I'm derailing this into another love thread.


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## Thirsty Boy (12/7/10)

oh hell no....

I am a loud mouthed, opinionated arrogant twat in love with his own opinion - its going to take a hell of a lot more than that to shut me up. A solid blow to the head perhaps (no doubt well deserved)

Thanks though.


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## matho (12/7/10)

Well if bum's turning this into another love thread let me be the first to second his statements
thirsty don't let anything stop sending pm's or replying to them the one pm that I sent you I got an astounding response which really helped me get my head around the topic

thanks mate for all your help

cheer's Steve


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## RdeVjun (12/7/10)

Third to that. We might have a differing opinion from time to time, but it has always been respected and indeed reciprocated. 

Oh wait, I thought someone else had the essay market all sewn up? Not likely...!!!


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## bonj (12/7/10)

I've been on the receiving end of a Thirsty Boy mega PM.... Can't remember what it was about... But I want in on this love fest.

:wub:


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## DangerousDave (12/7/10)

use your




that is all


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## jyo (12/7/10)

I was just getting a lollie out of our lollie jar, and I found this:




I'm not joking, this is meant to be a lollie. My missus is still pissing herself laughing.
I didn't know where to post it, but this thread seemed the best place.
Anyone who reads through this whole thing is surely going to need a laugh.

Cheers, John.


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## boobiedazzler (13/7/10)

That packing is far too erect to represent some of the droopy lot here, Ill bet. 

Look and listen to yourselves, you one-eyed pack wolves. How on earth is it acceptable practice for an established member to send a new member a 600 word outline of why another contributor's posts should be seen as a threat? I can form my own opinion of NickJD's posts, and don't need (opinionated) clarification from someone else. Jesus, talking about holding cards under the table. It's not as if there had even been any previous PM's between me and the author, it just came out of the blue. Had anyone else done this, he or she would have been crucified. But in this case no, because you toss-merchants insist on sticking together as a rowdy gang, regardless of what transpires. Some of you cowards should be ashamed of yourselves. So many established members make this place very bad indeed. Thank god for the newre contributors that act and look through new, inspired eyes. 

And I have/had no intention of mentioning the author of the PM or the contents, but I suspected that he would step up anyway. And for that he has my respect, and beleive it or not he also has my respect as one of the most valuable public contributors here. Just For the record.


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## bonj (13/7/10)

Who likes short shorts?


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## Yob (13/7/10)

boobiedazzler said:


> WRONG ! I am not built like you blokes. I am a lady. Well, very vague terminology, but i dont have one of those playthings of my own to love and to stroke like you do, Manticle.



Does that make you just an arsehole walking about spewing shit?


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## QldKev (13/7/10)

Bonj said:


> Who likes short shorts?



We like short shorts


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## JestersDarts (13/7/10)

boobiedazzler said:


> That packing is far too erect to represent some of the droopy lot here, Ill bet.
> 
> Look and listen to yourselves, you one-eyed pack wolves. How on earth is it acceptable practice for an established member to send a new member a 600 word outline of why another contributor's posts should be seen as a threat? I can form my own opinion of NickJD's posts, and don't need (opinionated) clarification from someone else. Jesus, talking about holding cards under the table. It's not as if there had even been any previous PM's between me and the author, it just came out of the blue. Had anyone else done this, he or she would have been crucified. But in this case no, because you toss-merchants insist on sticking together as a rowdy gang, regardless of what transpires. Some of you cowards should be ashamed of yourselves. So many established members make this place very bad indeed. Thank god for the newre contributors that act and look through new, inspired eyes.
> 
> And I have/had no intention of mentioning the author of the PM or the contents, but I suspected that he would step up anyway. And for that he has my respect, and beleive it or not he also has my respect as one of the most valuable public contributors here. Just For the record.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (13/7/10)

DangerousDave said:


> View attachment 39348
> 
> 
> use your
> ...



-1 - I'm having a good laugh. Keep feeding, please.


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## thesunsettree (13/7/10)

Wait wait wait, i have forgotten - who's doing the stirring, and who's the clown thas so easy stir up....

edit - clarification



Quote-
That packing is far too erect to represent some of the droopy lot here, Ill bet. 

Look and listen to yourselves, you one-eyed pack wolves. How on earth is it acceptable practice for an established member to send a new member a 600 word outline of why another contributor's posts should be seen as a threat? I can form my own opinion of NickJD's posts, and don't need (opinionated) clarification from someone else. Jesus, talking about holding cards under the table. It's not as if there had even been any previous PM's between me and the author, it just came out of the blue. Had anyone else done this, he or she would have been crucified. But in this case no, because you toss-merchants insist on sticking together as a rowdy gang, regardless of what transpires. Some of you cowards should be ashamed of yourselves. So many established members make this place very bad indeed. Thank god for the newre contributors that act and look through new, inspired eyes.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (13/7/10)

thesunsettree said:


> Wait wait wait, i have forgotten - who's doing the stirring, and who's the clown thas so easy stir up....



Who cares? It's still funny.

I didn't say who the troll is, or who isn't - that's open to interpretation. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and sometimes who the Troll is, as well.


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## manticle (13/7/10)

QldKev said:


> We like short shorts




It really depends who's wearing them.


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## Fourstar (13/7/10)

boobiedazzler said:


> WRONG ! I am not built like you blokes. I am a lady. Well, *very vague terminology*, but i dont have one of those playthings of my own to love and to stroke like you do, Manticle.



Ladyman maybe?


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## Pennywise (13/7/10)

manticle said:


> It really depends who's wearing them.




Personally, I prefer to wear long pants.


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## Hatchy (13/7/10)

I prefer to wear shorts but in this weather I'd end up resembling the picture at the top of the screen.


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## Yob (13/7/10)

... snigger... mebee its envy..


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## QldKev (13/7/10)

manticle said:


> It really depends who's wearing them.



We like these short shorts


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## manticle (13/7/10)

Can't argue with that.


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## bonj (13/7/10)

QldKev said:


> We like these short shorts
> 
> View attachment 39385


But not on you, Kev! :icon_vomit: :lol:


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## bum (13/7/10)

boobiedazzler said:


> How on earth is it acceptable practice for an established member to send a new member a 600 word outline of why another contributor's posts should be seen as a threat?


 
Do you think it is because you championed Nick as the future of the board (firmly in cheek though your tongue may have been) and he feels that Nick might be the opposite? 

Not trying to put words into Thirsty's mouth, of course, so I'll use mine. The cancer that is killing this board is people who have read (and not even understood) Nick's very low-fi AG guide. It was his intent to make a layman's guide I am sure, so you know, kudos to him. But these new brewers are giving terrible advice to people based on the fact that they somehow managed to make beer because they looked at Nick's pictures - they have largely made no effort to further their understanding of what is happening when they make beer and seem to think this ignorance is something they can share to help others. Not only that but they think this grants then the right to think they are on the same level as many of the boards champion brewers. 

Another reason is that Nick is a cock.


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## haysie (13/7/10)

QldKev said:


> We like these short shorts
> 
> View attachment 39385





That even beats Chappo`s gals. :wub:


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## QldKev (13/7/10)

bum said:


> Do you think it is because you championed Nick as the future of the board (firmly in cheek though your tongue may have been) and he feels that Nick might be the opposite?
> 
> Not trying to put words into Thirsty's mouth, of course, so I'll use mine. The cancer that is killing this board is people who have read (and not even understood) Nick's very low-fi AG guide. It was his intent to make a layman's guide I am sure, so you know, kudos to him. But these new brewers are giving terrible advice to people based on the fact that they somehow managed to make beer because they looked at Nick's pictures - they have largely made no effort to further their understanding of what is happening when they make beer and seem to think this ignorance is something they can share to help others. Not only that but they think this grants then the right to think they are on the same level as many of the boards champion brewers.
> 
> Another reason is that Nick is a cock.




husk astringency for the win!!!

QldKev


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## QldKev (13/7/10)

Bonj said:


> But not on you, Kev! :icon_vomit: :lol:



She still would look nice, even on me...

QldKev


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## bonj (13/7/10)

QldKev said:


> She still would look nice, even on me...
> 
> QldKev


:lol: She might... the pants.... not so much... 

But I could say that about just about everyone on this board! (except you, Schooey... my number 2 best male prostitute, you sexy hunk of man candy!)


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## Screwtop (13/7/10)

QldKev said:


> We like these short shorts


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## bradsbrew (13/7/10)

Screwtop said:


>



Best ever emoticon...........hmmm how do save emoticons


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## winkle (13/7/10)

Screwtop said:


>




Thanks Screwy - finally something worthwhile on this most useless of threads :beer: .


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## rendo (13/7/10)

i bet u those shorts would be HOT TO TROT on manticle...

Only on a fri night of course



Bonj said:


> But not on you, Kev! :icon_vomit: :lol:


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## haysie (13/7/10)

rendo said:


> i bet u those shorts would be HOT TO TROT on manticle...
> 
> Only on a fri night of course



Whilst riding that pushbike honey,,,,, hummphhh, you look soooo pretty.

something tells me we should take the the memories of kev`s ass and let this thread die.


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## Nick JD (13/7/10)

bum said:


> Another reason is that Nick is a cock.



Calling yourself Bum and labeling other people "cocks" really makes me wonder about you, fella. :huh:


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## boobiedazzler (14/7/10)

QldKev said:


> husk astringency for the win!!!


Here we go. 

So on what basis are you suggesting astringency, is it personal experience ? Or just something you read somewhere and decided it would be your very own fun fact to regurgitate at will? 

Remember, I don't advocate a coffee-grinder crack, for other reasons than yours, but the person doing this reports no such astringency issues. Is actual experience from another brewer not enough for you to accept that your theoretical musings may be off the mark? Or are there deeper ramifications being shot out willy-nilly between the lines, in that he truly is getting astringency issues but is too inexperinced a beer taster to recognise them ? For those who have previously stated astringency in coffee grinder cracks AS FACT, how many have actually brewed a full batch with this method to confirm it?


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## JestersDarts (14/7/10)

boobiedazzler said:


> Here we go.
> 
> So on what basis are you suggesting astringency, is it personal experience ? Or just something you read somewhere and decided it would be your very own fun fact to regurgitate at will?
> 
> Remember, I don't advocate a coffee-grinder crack, for other reasons than yours, but the person doing this reports no such astringency issues. Is actual experience from another brewer not enough for you to accept that your theoretical musings may be off the mark? Or are there deeper ramifications being shot out willy-nilly between the lines, in that he truly is getting astringency issues but is too inexperinced a beer taster to recognise them ? For those who have previously stated astringency in coffee grinder cracks AS FACT, how many have actually brewed a full batch with this method to confirm it?



You're not seriously trying to resurrect this thread are you??!!


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## WarmBeer (14/7/10)




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## beerbrewer76543 (14/7/10)

This thread is awesome!

:beer:


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## JestersDarts (14/7/10)

Not that this is an old thread - perhaps I should have used the word 'salvage'

I just find it amusing that bobbydizzle is still trying to argue when this thread has long been de-railed..


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## bonj (14/7/10)

boobiedazzler said:


> Here we go.
> 
> So on what basis are you suggesting astringency, is it personal experience ? Or just something you read somewhere and decided it would be your very own fun fact to regurgitate at will?
> 
> Remember, I don't advocate a coffee-grinder crack, for other reasons than yours, but the person doing this reports no such astringency issues. Is actual experience from another brewer not enough for you to accept that your theoretical musings may be off the mark? Or are there deeper ramifications being shot out willy-nilly between the lines, in that he truly is getting astringency issues but is too inexperinced a beer taster to recognise them ? For those who have previously stated astringency in coffee grinder cracks AS FACT, how many have actually brewed a full batch with this method to confirm it?


I'm not going to be contributing to the downward spiral of arguments in this thread, but I'm pretty sure he was referring to Nick's method, not the crush. There is no effect on astringency from breaking the husks up. Hell, my marga mill tears husks all the time. Astringency is extracted from the husks by either trying to wash out too many sugars from the mash, or from heating the mash over a certain threshold temperature, which I can't remember of*f* hand but it's something like 76degreesC... Those are scientific facts that have been tested and confirmed numerous times by scientists and homebrewers alike. The trick to information on forums is to do your own research and find the members that are experienced and trustworthy.... then follow their advice, because they have made the mistakes most of us have yet to make, or are making right now, and have figured out how to correct them. It's all about trust rings. Find someone you trust, and the people they trust... or just go out and make all your own mistakes... the truth is, some people just have to learn the hard way, out of shear arrogance or just plain stupidity.

*edit: speeling*


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## Pennywise (14/7/10)




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## bonj (14/7/10)




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## Fourstar (14/7/10)




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## 501 (14/7/10)

Lol me too


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## WarmBeer (14/7/10)

Darren -> Daz -> Dazza -> Dazzler -> Boobiedazzler

It's Teh Internets, play any persona you choose.

PS, I love conspiracies


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## Bribie G (14/7/10)

He hasn't rubbished BIAB yet so I think he's someone else, unless he's deliberately dissembling. (love that word - it's in all the Robert Ludlum novels)


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## QldKev (14/7/10)

WarmBeer said:


> Darren -> Daz -> Dazza -> Dazzler -> Boobiedazzler
> 
> It's Teh Internets, play any persona you choose.
> 
> PS, I love conspiracies



Could be his mum


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## boobiedazzler (14/7/10)

WarmBeer said:


> Darren - Daz - Dazza - Dazzler - Boobiedazzler



Sure sure, whatever you say. While we're trying to tarnish my reality even more, you forgot this

http://www.knowledgerush.com/wiki_image/c/c2/Mack_knife.JPG


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## gregs (14/7/10)

Similarity to bobiedazzler (_Puss oozing from a sore that just wont heal)_

_Some guys know nothing and learn._

_Some guys know nothing and move on._

_Some guys know nothing and never learn._

_Some guys use the name bobiedazzler._

_Sarcasm font is so good. :icon_cheers: _


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## Ducatiboy stu (14/7/10)

Insert Flying Spaghetti Monster here ------>


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## crozdog (14/7/10)

WarmBeer said:


> Darren -> Daz -> Dazza -> Dazzler -> Boobiedazzler
> 
> It's Teh Internets, play any persona you choose.
> 
> PS, I love conspiracies




don't mention no chill & botulism what ever you do!!!!


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## bonj (14/7/10)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Insert Flying Spaghetti Monster here ------>


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## boobiedazzler (14/7/10)

It was wrongly assumed that this forum had many members that are serious CRAFT brewers at home, and not just crafty hobby homebrewers. My mistake.


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## manticle (14/7/10)

It was wrongly assumed that you could act like a wanker and people would still take you seriously. Your mistake.

great thread by the way. Well done.


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## NickB (14/7/10)

As has been pointed out repeatedly in this thread, you haven't re-invented the wheel, nor have you endeared yourself to many people with your aggressive responses. The first few posts were very much trying to help/inform you, but were taken as insults, and subsequently insults were fired back.

Most of the brewers that have been around this forum for a long time are very serious about brewing. It's just certain newer brewers who come on here, ask basic questions without searching, or sprout 'gospel truths' about techniques that have been proven to be detrimental to the end product, who are really bringing things down. 

What really pisses a lot of us off, is the way in which answers to questions are being either disregarded completely (despite their being evidence to support them), or taken as a personal attack.

Now, just because I've posted this response in this particular thread isn't just a swipe at you, it's at all the people who frequently come on here to either troll, or fling shit at people just for a 'laff'.

Grow up and get over yourselves, all of you! This board used to be about great brewing knowledge, fantastic camaraderie, InCider and Chappo's frivolous posting, and a fantastic (if not slightly sick and twisted) sense of humour. I miss that, as I'm sure a lot of you do.

Might be time to head out to pasture with Butters and PistolPatch........



Rant over.




Cheers.


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## Mantis (14/7/10)

jyo said:


> I was just getting a lollie out of our lollie jar, and I found this:
> 
> View attachment 39349
> 
> ...



Gold
And boobybobbywhateverthefuckyouare


Good thread, totaly uninformative, silly, shows you didnt use the search function or are uncapable of doing so. You have managed to wind a lot of respected brewers up, so have a go at me, please ..............................


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## bonj (15/7/10)

boobiedazzler said:


> It was wrongly assumed that this forum had many members that are serious CRAFT brewers at home, and not just crafty hobby homebrewers. My mistake.


AH Huh!! Your mask has been unveiled! It is GLS posing as a girl! (the posing part may be questionable)


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## bum (15/7/10)

Only if he's been being tutored in his absence. 

It does expose "her" as a non-n00b, though.


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## SpillsMostOfIt (15/7/10)

I really wanted to contribute something meaningful to this thread.

I've got nothing.

Mantis is a big girl's blouse.

Hmmmm.... Perhaps I've succeeded?


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## boobiedazzler (15/7/10)

Mantis said:


> You have managed to wind a lot of respected brewers up, so have a go at me, please


Self Proclaimed respect now? It doesnt surprise me. Do you get your own trophies made up too? Theres the swipe you were beggin me for. Happy now you have baited me? 



Mantis said:


> shows you didnt use the search function or are uncapable of doing so


And what should I have used the search function for, my first post didn't ask any questions. 

All this carry in this thread on that advice is being given by novices is also very barbed. And very unfair considering I do know quite a bit about the fundamentals of processes Sure I said 'wheat husk' but any sane person would realise that despite the unprecise terminology, the gist of the statement in context made it apparent what I was on about. If I had said shell or coating or whatever it would have been the same thing. Obviously wheat grain needs to be cracked in much the same way barley grain needs to be cracked. That was the context, and it's unlikely that my comment of 'wheat husk' in the spirit of the thread is unlikely to send novice brewers in the wrong direction and result in bad information that will affect their brewday. 



bum said:


> It does expose "her" as a non-n00b, though



Who said I was a n00b? I have been brewing for years, longer than you for all we know. As usual, people assume experience in the craft based on post counts. Thats one of my main gripes.


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## drew9242 (15/7/10)

what i have learned: you can chuck grains in a blender, coffee grinder, hell you might as beat them with the egg beater. OR you can order grain cracked!!!! fuk i have cracked it boys. So if we put the whole debate about wether puting grain in a blender is any good. I ask why would you want to do this, when you can just order your grain cracked. But if it floats your boat to do so go for it, and we thankyou for sharing your expetise in this matter.


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## AndrewQLD (15/7/10)

I think it's safe to say that this thread has gone so far off topic that it is no longer relevant to the original post and is starting to get a little too personal, as such, 



Andrew


----------

