# IIPA Help (First time creating my own recipe)



## IR44 (30/11/17)

Hi Experts,

I need experienced help with an iipa recipe I’m thinking of trying. I haven’t quite (successfully) made the jump to full AG yet, but I am quite comfortable with partial mashing.
This is the first time I’ve had a crack at creating my own recipe, and I would like input as to if it’s likely to work well, or fail miserably.

I’m shooting for a big (<8% ABV) hoppy iipa. I was hoping to use the grain and hops I have on hand, but I’m also open to recommendations. I am especially lost with the best ratio of hops to use throughout boil

Hoping to have 20L of wort at the end to go into the fermenter, with the beer going onto a 19L keg at end of fermentation for force carbing and serving

Open to any and all help/criticism 

On hand:
US-05 Yeast 15g
Black Rock - Pale Malt (3kg)
Light Dry Malt Extract (1kg)
Joe White - Munich (1kg)
Joe White - Crystal Malt (1kg)
Joe White - Cara Malt (1kg)
Cascade Hop Pellets 100g
Citra hop pellets - 180g

Equipment:
50L electric Keggle with false bottom and BIAB setup.
Wort Chiller

The plan:
Steep my grains (in bag) in 25L cold water and raise the temp to 68-70 degrees and hold there for 60 minutes.
Remove from heat, remove the grains and sparge with 2 cups of 65 degree water.
Add 1.5KG of LME and 1KG of DME extract at this point and stir to fully dissolve. 
Bring the wort to a boil and add 25G of Cascade Hops and 25G of Citra Hops , start 60 minute timer.
After 40 minutes, add 25G of Cascade Hops and 25G of Citra Hops
After 55 minutes, 25G of Cascade Hops and 25G of Citra Hops
After 60 minutes, remove from heat and stir in remaining (1.5kg) LME.
When extract is fully dissolved, add 25G of Cascade Hops and 25G of Citra Hops steep for 15 minutes.
Cool wort to ~25 degrees (Wort Chiller)
Drain wort into primary fermenter.
Pitch the US-05 yeast 
Dry Hop 80G Citra Hops after 5-7 days for 5—7days


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## Schikitar (30/11/17)

Yeast, lots of yeast. I recently attempted a BIIPA which, well, mostly failed. Didn't hit my gravities at either end, still tastes good but yeah, these are harder to make than you'd think. I really should have built a better yeast starter (I used harvested yeast that I possibly didn't harvest/revive correctly) so when I coupled that issue with an already undershot OG my BIIPA went to BIPA pretty quickly..

Cascade and citra are both good choices, my dry hop was 175g in 25L and I still feel like it came up short - maybe just double check those numbers..

Clearly, given my (lack of) experience, my words of wisdom might not be the best, I'm still learning! Good luck!


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## laxation (30/11/17)

Looks good, except I suggest 20gm citra FWH (before it boils) and then save the remaining 30g hops for your last hop step:
_
When extract is fully dissolved, add 50G of Cascade Hops and 30G of Citra Hops steep for 15 minutes.
_
Maybe a bit of Simcoe in the dry hop as well?


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## IR44 (30/11/17)

Thanks for the advice Schikitar and laxation

Going off your recommendations. I Might:
- Reduce Citra in first step to 20g
- Increase citra to 30g in last step (steeping)
- purchase another 100g of Cascade hops and dry hop with 80g citra and 100g cascade.
- Purchase another pack of US-05 to double the initial yeast pitching volume


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## pirateagenda (30/11/17)

looking at your method, its more complicated than doing an all grain batch. 

instead of steeping the 3kg of grain, steep more grain and skip the extracts and you're set.

DIPA are a good first one because the hops can mask any mash inefficiencies. 

A good starting point could be:
7.5 kg ale malt (i like maris otter)
350g medium crystal
500g demerara suger (dries it out a little and boosts the ABV

hops 
simcoe at 60 minutes to 20 IBU
mix any combo of some or all simcoe, citra, cascade, centennial, amarillo at 10 minutes to 80-100 IBU
Dry hop any of the above combo at around 3-4g per litre at day 5 of ferment
2nd Dry hop the same as first dry hop around day 8 

for 20L make a starter from your US-05 pack or use around 4-5 packs if you don't want to make a starter


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## captain crumpet (30/11/17)

...


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## Droopy Brew (30/11/17)

Firstly, if you are planning to do a partial with the full 2 kg of Crystal it will not be good- that is waaayyy too much.

Secondly, you are set up to do All grain, your process is all grain with the exception of adding the malt extracts. Bite the bullet and do all grain.

Pirate agenda has put up a decent looking recipe- have a go at it.


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## manticle (30/11/17)

Relax on the crystal, my brother


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## mtb (30/11/17)

He said he had that much crystal on hand, not necessarily part of his recipe.


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## manticle (30/11/17)

Yes. I should turn the volume up on my eyes.

Carry on.


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## 2cranky (30/11/17)

yeah do all grain much simpler.
I do a really nice 8% plus IIPA. you can't go wrong with this.
Easy to drink the late hops really mask the high alcohol

CRAZY8 (8% ABV and 8 hops )
24l 8.45%
OG 1.077
FG 1.013
mash at 64-65

87% pale (I do a mix of marris otter and US pale)
6% white wheat
4% cara pils
3% medium crystal

but I go crazy on the hops

24g centennial at 60
28g centennial at 30
28g centennial at 20

24g mosaic flameout steep
24g centennial flameout steep
12g Simcoe flameout steep
12g citra flameout steep
24g cascade flameout steep
24g willamette flameout steep
12g Amarillo flameout steep
14g motueka flameout steep

2 packs of US-05 gotta use 2 packs - aerate well or oxygen. pitch low 20s and drop to 18. after 72 hours start raising to 20/21. dry hop when you are at FG (or close to)

26g citra dry hop
26g simcoe dry hop
26g willamette dry hop
26g centennial dry hop
36g Motueka dry hop


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## IR44 (30/11/17)

Thanks guys, I have tried to go AG once with an APA, and no idea where i went wrong, but tasted terrible, have been apprehensive of going back to AG since. But from the advice above perhaps this is the time to try it again.

2cranky,
Thanks for the recipe, i think i might have to give a variation of it a go  Might reduce the hops down to just citra and cascade for the moment, at least for my first attempt.
is 24L your pre or post boil and What is the total weight of your grain bill?


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## Droopy Brew (30/11/17)

Dont let the first experience put you off. Why did it taste terrible? What did it taste of?
Without any info, Im thinking it was likely an infection that was more a fermentation process than a wort making process at fault. A description of the off flavours would help.


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## IR44 (30/11/17)

There was no noticeable visual infection in the ferment, but it did smell a bit "off" right from the get go. However the taste was terrible, best describe the taste as "rotten", kind of tasted like an off hoegaarden. Not an APA and definitely not pleasant.


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## 2cranky (30/11/17)

IR44 said:


> Thanks guys, I have tried to go AG once with an APA, and no idea where i went wrong, but tasted terrible, have been apprehensive of going back to AG since. But from the advice above perhaps this is the time to try it again.
> 
> 2cranky,
> Thanks for the recipe, i think i might have to give a variation of it a go  Might reduce the hops down to just citra and cascade for the moment, at least for my first attempt.
> is 24L your pre or post boil and What is the total weight of your grain bill?



8.2kg of grain.,

I used to do a post boil of 22l and end up with a shortfall in my keg for 19l. So being a lazy SOB I just increased my batch size by 2 litres. now I have a full keg and sometimes enough for a couple of bottles. I should really adjust my rig in beersmith. But it works so, meh.

Yeah you can use whatever you want but remember it's the late hops - over 150g that gives a nice fruity flavour and masks the 8%. I think that's important in these beers. No good serving rocket fuel. This recipe tastes pretty mild for a IIPA. The centennial additions total about 55 IBUs. Probably pushing mid 70s with the flameout additions, but it doesn't taste that high.
In fact my inspiration for this beer was a craft beer in NZ that was and 8% citra. Liberty Citra IIPA I think. you might find a recipe for it online.
this one may interest - can you brew it recipe.

From your description of your AG beer id say infection for sure. In my opinion AG is quite forgiving with recipe/technique failures. Infections - not so much. I've started treating my water lately and that has produced a cleaner taste as well. Chloramides can also produce bad flavours so a camdom tablet will fix that.


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## Droopy Brew (30/11/17)

IR44 said:


> There was no noticeable visual infection in the ferment, but it did smell a bit "off" right from the get go. However the taste was terrible, best describe the taste as "rotten", kind of tasted like an off hoegaarden. Not an APA and definitely not pleasant.


Bacterial infection by the sounds, give the AG another go, you wont look back. Visual cues aren't a foolproof way of detecting infections- sometimes they look no different


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## IR44 (1/12/17)

Well I took everyone's advice and purchased 25KG bag of base malt today. Going to give AG another go


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## Tony121 (1/12/17)

IR44 said:


> Well I took everyone's advice and purchased 25KG bag of base malt today. Going to give AG another go



Great stuff!!


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## IR44 (5/12/17)

So this Friday is brew day. Which has given me enough time to install a re-circulating pump into my kettle, so get to try that out as well.

Here’s the recipe I’ve settled on. Please let me know any advice/recommendations.

Thoughts on grain bill, and is 65% efficiency too low? should I be lowing base malt amount and increasing efficiency?
What are the thoughts on the hop schedule?

7 kg Joe White – Traditional Ale
0.25kg Joe White - Munich
0.25kg Joe White - Crystal Malt
0.25kg Joe White - Cara Malt
1kg Light Dry Malt Extract
200g Cascade Hops
160g Citra Hops
25g US-05 Yeast

Pre Boil: 27L
Post Boil :23L

Steep my grains (in bag) in 27L 68-70 degrees and hold there for 60 minutes.
Remove from heat, remove the grains and sparge with 2 cups of 65 degree water.
Add 1KG of DME extract at this point and stir to fully dissolve.
Bring the wort to a boil and add 35g of Cascade Hops and 20g of Citra Hops , start 60 minute timer.
After 40 minutes, add 25g of Cascade Hops and 25g of Citra Hops
After 55 minutes, 25G of Cascade Hops and 25G of Citra Hops
After 60 minutes, Flame out (or element off in my case)
add 25g of Cascade Hops and 30g of Citra Hops steep for 30 minutes (whirlpool, starting at 80 degrees)
Cool wort to ~25 degrees (Wort Chiller)
Drain wort into primary fermenter.
Pitch the US-05 yeast
Ferment at 18 degrees
Dry Hop 90g Cascade 65g Citra Hops after 5-7 days for 5—7days

Have run the recipe through brewers friend, assuming 65% efficiency
Original Gravity: 1.083
Final Gravity: 1.016
ABV (standard): 8.86%
IBU (tinseth): 95.16
SRM (morey): 9.29

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/577217/ian-s-first-iipa


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## mtb (5/12/17)

Make sure to calculate your strike water temperature before mashing in. Plenty of new brewers aiming to mash at 67C make the mistake of heating their water to 67C and then adding grain, losing a few C in the process, mashing low as a result


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## IR44 (5/12/17)

mtb said:


> Make sure to calculate your strike water temperature before mashing in. Plenty of new brewers aiming to mash at 67C make the mistake of heating their water to 67C and then adding grain, losing a few C in the process, mashing low as a result



Thanks for the advice, this is something I had overlooked, so thank you

Quick calculation puts strike water temp at 74.6 (C)


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## laxation (5/12/17)

If you're not sure about your efficiency, could the DME be added after boil into your fermenter - so if you are already at or close enough to your ABV you can just skip it.
I don't sparge, so you should check - but I think sparge water is supposed to be 75-78 degrees.

Also you might need more water. I use 33L in an urn and lose a fair bit to the grain bag - 5.5kg of grain usually takes me to 31L, giving me a 23L batch after boil and trub loss. When I did a strong IPA I lost HEAPS to the bag! Ended up topping up with 2L of boiled water into the fermenter, which was no problem. So just consider topping up with water into the fermenter, or maybe even sparging with a bit more hot water if you can. As I said, I don't sparge - so someone else should probably tell you whether there's any problems with adding water that way

Recipe looks tasty though, nice work


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## Lionman (5/12/17)

I did a IIPA early on in my AG and it was a cracker.

I did an iterative mash, doughing into the wort of the first mash after splitting the grist in to 2 batches. I pitched it onto the cake of a APA which made sure there was plenty of yeasties in there. Reached FG in 4 days.

I need to do one similar again soon.

HOME BREW RECIPE:
Title: Double Mash IIPA

Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: Imperial IPA
Boil Time: 120 min
Batch Size: 23 liters (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 36.4 liters
Boil Gravity: 1.055
Efficiency: 79% (brew house)
No Chill: 15 minute extended hop boil time

STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.088
Final Gravity: 1.016
ABV (standard): 9.41%
IBU (tinseth): 122.94
SRM (morey): 9.04

FERMENTABLES:
7.5 kg - Pale Malt, Maris Otter (92.6%)
200 g - Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (2.5%)
300 g - Cara-pils (3.7%)
100 g - Caraaroma (1.2%)

HOPS:
30 g - Magnum, Type: Pellet, AA: 14, Use: First Wort, IBU: 53
40 g - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12, Use: Boil for 0 min, IBU: 25.05
40 g - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 13, Use: Boil for 0 min, IBU: 27.14
40 g - Amarillo Gold, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Boil for 0 min, IBU: 17.75
50 g - Amarillo Gold, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.5, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days
50 g - Mosaic, Type: Pellet, AA: 12, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days
50 g - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 13, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Temperature, Temp: 65 C, Time: 60 min, Amount: 25 L, Saccharification 1
2) Temperature, Temp: 78 C, Time: 10 min, Mash out 1
3) Sparge 1
4) Temperature, Temp: 65 C, Time: 60 min, Saccharification 2
5) Temperature, Temp: 78 C, Time: 10 min, Mash out 2
6) Sparge 2

YEAST:
White Labs - San Diego Super Yeast WLP090
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 79.5%
Flocculation: Med-High
Optimum Temp: 18.33 - 20 C


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## SeeFar (5/12/17)

Apologies for the hijack but I have a question regarding yeast that's come up in this conversation. 

I pitched an IPA that had an OG of 1091 (my recent brews came in under the expected ABV, wasn't taking chances with this one) but I used a single packet of US 05 (11.5gm) that had been rehydrated in a glass of room temp water for a couple of hours. 

Should I be using more yeast than this in such a high gravity beer? I noted that 2 packets were suggested last page and wondered why that was the case. 

Cheers.


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## Lionman (5/12/17)

1.091, minimum 3 packets.


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## Coodgee (5/12/17)

Lionman, was the carapils just in case 9.4% ABV didn't give you enough mouthfeel? haha


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## Jack of all biers (5/12/17)

SeeFar said:


> Apologies for the hijack but I have a question regarding yeast that's come up in this conversation.
> 
> OG of 1091 ... I used a single packet of US 05 (11.5gm) that had been rehydrated in a glass of room temp water for a couple of hours.
> 
> Should I be using more yeast than this in such a high gravity beer? I noted that 2 packets were suggested last page and wondered why that was the case.


If your room temp was 35C then you should have rehydrated a couple of packs.

I'd link you to Mr malty, but I'm on my phone, so google it or search on here. If you don't pitch enough yeast and don't treat them well (look up why I mentioned 35C on the fermentis website) then you can expect underattenuated beer and/or more off flavours than if you pitch correct amounts of yeast.


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## SeeFar (6/12/17)

THanks for that. I've now seen the calculator on the Malty website and that says I should have used two packs or approx 20gm. So I rehydrated and chucked another 11.5gm in, coming smack on 48 hours after the first lot was pitched.

I keep the yeast in the fridge and it seems the temp that I was rehydrating at (approx 25c) was suitable, luckily.

I'm going to have to learn how to recycle yeast from the trub. I got back into this game largely to reduce the cost of my craft beerr drinking habits but the costs continue to climb at each and every turn!


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## mtb (6/12/17)

Bear in mind you're making a very high ABV beer. Costs compared to a commercial equivalent remain tiny even when pitching a couple extra packs of yeast. I fully recommend yeast harvesting but while you're getting back into the swing of things, it may be an unwelcome distraction from the base processes that are ever so crucial.


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## laxation (6/12/17)

SeeFar said:


> I'm going to have to learn how to recycle yeast from the trub. I got back into this game largely to reduce the cost of my craft beerr drinking habits but the costs continue to climb at each and every turn!


You can easily save money with yeast.

All you need is some liquid yeast and a big flask.

And some DME for the starter
And a stir plate
And someway to cool it down, like a fridge. But one just for your brewing.
Little containers to freeze it in I hear are good
but you need glycerin for that too
And if you like you can buy a little hotplate so you can heat up your starter next to your kettle outside

BUT after all that you can reuse yeast forever so you got that going for you ... which is nice


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## IR44 (6/12/17)

Thanks for all the advice. Taking it all on board.

Bit confused with the amount of yeast i'll need, MrMalty calc says 21g, Brewersfriend cal says 51.1g. 

As I'm brewing this Friday, think I have left it a little late to make up a starter. So I've purchased another packet of us-05, will now be pitching with a total of 36.5g of US-05, hopefully that will be enough.

I also plan to harvest my yeast at the end of the ferment, another first for me, so see how that goes. Would be nice to never have to purchase yeast again


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## Coodgee (6/12/17)

36.5 grams of yeast will be a good number for that beer. regarding yeast harvesting, I like to time my brews so I am kegging one beer on the same day that I am brewing the next. There is generally time to do the kegging during the boil or while chilling I find. Then you can just scoop out a cup of slurry from the previous brew and put it in the new brew. I get nervous trying to store yeast for extended periods of time. I am good with sanitation but it's hard to trust 6 hours of work ona freshly made wort to a bottle of yeast slurry that's been sitting in the bottom of the fridge for a couple of months.


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## Grott (6/12/17)

Coodgee said:


> Then you can just scoop out a cup of slurry from the previous brew and put it in the new brew.



So this is for a 23 litre batch? You obviously find it’s enough yeast in other words you don’t add extra? 
I get a bit confused with this “cup process” as you read over pitching will........under pitching will............


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## SeeFar (6/12/17)

MTB and Laxation, thanks for the info, appreciated. MTB, you're right about savings and scaling. When my current batches are down to a decent standard and process I'm going to try the harvesting thing. Laxation, that sounds like the dream but I have to pace out my spending (mortgage, baby on the way, two other expensive hobbies, wife is an accountant, etc, etc...) so what you've described will be a "strategic goal". Coodgee, I might try a basic and cheap extract brew to try the "scoop a cup" method. Grott, I most definitely share your confusion and apprehension. I have a phobia of ruined brews and unsatisfied anticipation of quality beer!

Thanks again, all, really helpful.


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## SeeFar (6/12/17)

IR44 said:


> Thanks for all the advice. Taking it all on board.
> 
> Bit confused with the amount of yeast i'll need, MrMalty calc says 21g, Brewersfriend cal says 51.1g.
> 
> ...



Really keen to follow your process of harvesting the yeast and your (hopeful) success.


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## Lionman (6/12/17)

Coodgee said:


> Lionman, was the carapils just in case 9.4% ABV didn't give you enough mouthfeel? haha



Making doubly sure there is plenty of thick, white, long lasting head.


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## Coodgee (6/12/17)

Lionman said:


> Making doubly sure there is plenty of thick, white, long lasting head.



everyone loves a bit of long-lasting head.


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## Coodgee (6/12/17)

Grott said:


> So this is for a 23 litre batch? You obviously find it’s enough yeast in other words you don’t add extra?
> I get a bit confused with this “cup process” as you read over pitching will........under pitching will............



A cup of yeast slurry from a standard 23L batch of your average APA or IPA will be plenty to inoculate another standard 23L batch of APA or IPA. You can use a yeast calculator like Mr Malty but if you are using yeast slurry you have to select how thick and pure your yeast slurry is with some sliders. So taking the mid-point of those values gives about 200ml which is 4/5 of a cup... so I add 25% extra to err on the side of over-pitching versus under pitching. I don't think a modest over-pitch is going to do any harm to an IPA or APA; maybe if you are talking a hef or something it might be important. I have done this many times and it works very well.


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## Schikitar (6/12/17)

SeeFar said:


> I'm going to have to learn how to recycle yeast from the trub.


I think it's better to harvest from a good yeast starter rather than from a finished beer - it's fiddly and takes more time than it's worth, all that cleaning and separating, urgh.. (Please note: I'm lazy)

Going the scoop or full dump on a yeast cake has always worked well for me, I tend to step up or sideways with the brews (eg. don't pop a lower gravity beer on the cake from a higher gravity).


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## SeeFar (6/12/17)

Well shit, at close to 10% my current brew is going to be difficult to best in terms of booze points. 

Going to have to do some reading on the options of using the yeast cake and how to do it (will always gratefully accept any good links folk care to donate to that cause!!)


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## IR44 (9/12/17)

Update: So ran the recipe last night. Looks like I didn't quite hit the 65% efficiency, but got close, i read the OG at 1.080, I'm happy with that.

Was a late night, and my poor timing/planning meant I didn't have the yeast hydrated by the time the wort had cooled. so after cooling the wort I transferred it to my primary fermenter and chucked it in my fermentation fridge (set at 18°c). But haven't pitched the yeast yet. Will pitch the yeast tonight once I'm home this evening


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## IR44 (27/12/17)

Righto. Yesterday was the big day. I kegged the beer on Xmas eve, I tasted it as I was kegging and thought it fell a bit short in the hop flavors, so i added 50g of Galaxy hops (all I had on hand) to the keg, suspended in a stainless steal tea ball. Was the right choice, definitely needed that little extra hop kick.

Ended up with a really smooth, almost velvety, mouth feel which was surprising since I didn't add any wheat. It was an all round delicious beer. Next time I think i will add more hops again, perhaps play around with some different hop varieties.

Was very well received by the family and friends, and at 8.3%, it definitely loosened a few people up  With only a 1/4 keg left, was a hit.

Thanks to everyone who convinced me to try AG again, think I''m hooked


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