# Earthing kettle element



## Barge (27/9/15)

I asked this question in a different thread and thought I should probably just start a new one to avoid getting OT on the other thread.

Firstly, I understand the importance of earthing electrical equipment and having all work carried out and signed off by a licensed electrician. 

My query relates to earthing the big w/ k-mart kettle elements if I'm still using the IEC cord that they come with. I don't see why the kettle should necessarily be earthed (other than for being extra cautious) when the element is earthed through the cable. If the weld less elements from CB, etc don't need to be earthed, then why should these be? If I have them in an enclosure that is sealed, shouldn't that be enough?

Cheers


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## takai (27/9/15)

Weldless elements are earthed, just through the housing and pot not the element itself.


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## Barge (27/9/15)

But the kettle still isn't earthed. I don't get the difference.


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## takai (27/9/15)

The kettle is earthed on a weldless setup, just through the element housing and therefore the whole kettle itself.


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## Barge (27/9/15)

So when you screw the element on there is metal on metal contact between the element and the kettle?


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## QldKev (27/9/15)

Hopefully, but in the real world not always. A lot of people do put seals on both sides of the pot to element contact areas, hence removing this contact path. If the element was off centre allowing the thread to touch the pot then that could work. When you have water in the pot that would create a path from the element housing to the pot for the earth. But boil dry and they may not have a decent earth path? But scary now we think of it.


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## TheWiggman (27/9/15)

It's important to think what the earth is actually there for. It's possible for a conductive part of an appliance to be touched by the active if there was an internal cable fault, which would make the whole thing 'live'. If a person touched it they would become the new neutral, and current would flow through them to the ground. If the appliance was earthed, the earth closes the loop and takes out the fuse/CB before anyone gets a chance to touch it. In the days before earth leakage detection, if this didn't happen the human would be zapped until the fuse blew. 
If the element and pot are insulated from one another, that's the problem*. If a cable came off inside the junction box and touched the pot, the pot would become live and there's a chance of getting zapped. Though your electrician would have told you this when he/she wired it up 

*ed: IF the junction box/cover can touch the pot


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## Barge (27/9/15)

I was also wondering how your setup is wired Kev.

From one of your vids it looks like the enclosure is earthed. Is it in direct contact with the kettle as well?


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## trevgale (27/9/15)

Barge, I assume you are talking about the elements from the $8 jugs. from memory they have a silicone gasket that would go against the kettle and 3 screws that connect the element (inside of jug) to the plastic section that the cord plugs into (outside of jug). With this arrangement there is no transfer of earth to the pot as it was designed to go into a plastic jug where earthing is not required.

You could drill a hole above water level and install a bolt with a nut and star washer to connect the earth to, wouldn't be real pretty though.


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## Barge (27/9/15)

[quote name="TheWiggman" If a cable came off inside the junction box and touched the pot, the pot would become live and there's a chance of getting zapped. [/quote]

That's what I'm talking about. How can a wire come loose if I use the iec cable and connectors as is. That is, not cutting the connectors off and wiring direct to the element.


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## Barge (27/9/15)

trevgale said:


> You could drill a hole above water level and install a bolt with a nut and star washer to connect the earth to, wouldn't be real pretty though.


That's what I was thinking but wasn't sure if it is necessary if the original connector is used without modification.


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## Camo6 (27/9/15)

An earthing system is only as good as its connections. If it's easier for electricity to go through your body than through any high resistance connections it will.

Most kettle element seals I've used seal both sides of the pot like a grommet therefore insulating themselves from the metal pot. If you had a loose connection/short/arc to the pot then it'd become a live conductor.


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## rude (27/9/15)

In other words if the pot becomes alive it is just waiting to kill you


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## real_beer (27/9/15)

Barge said:


> I don't see why the kettle should necessarily be earthed (other than for being extra cautious) when the element is earthed through the cable. If the weld less elements from CB, etc don't need to be earthed, then why should these be? If I have them in an enclosure that is sealed, shouldn't that be enough?
> 
> Cheers


Because if someone other than yourself ever used it and didn't know they had to use the IEC cord with it, and the home they used it in didn't have one in the meter box, you'd be responsible for killing them if things went pear shaped.
Luckily you understand that a licensed electrician would be signing it off so you'd be okay because he wouldn't approve it.


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## Barge (27/9/15)

I get all that. What i don't get is how the pot could become live. There are no wires as the IEC plug is going into the element end directly, just like the weld free setup. And it couldn't be used without that cord. So I still don't get the reasoning, other than "if you don't you might die". 

Don't get me wrong, that's the reason (and the sparky won't have it any other way) I will have it earthed. I just can't see how that setup can cause a leakage.


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## takai (27/9/15)

There are many ways it can become live, the one that i have seen a couple of times is that the plastic surrounding the IEC pins gets soft and squidgy from all the current passing through the pin and eventually fails and shorts through to the pot. Both times this has blown the fuse because the melted pin also let water into the ground recess thereby bridging the circuit. But if it doesnt happen (and it is random remember) then bzzzt.

The kettle elements are designed for use with plastic housings, where the chance of coming in contact with anything electrically conductive is minimal.


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## Barge (27/9/15)

Fair enough. What about using the weld free element with o-rings. That would insulate the pot, too? I'm thinking they would be easier but I'm worried they're not as safe.


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## real_beer (27/9/15)

Barge said:


> I get all that. What i don't get is how the pot could become live. There are no wires as the IEC plug is going into the element end directly, just like the weld free setup. And it couldn't be used without that cord. So I still don't get the reasoning, other than "if you don't you might die".
> 
> Don't get me wrong, that's the reason (and the sparky won't have it any other way) I will have it earthed. I just can't see how that setup can cause a leakage.


I don't know what I was thinking about when I first read your question and went off on another tangent. If the element is earthed through the cable it will be okay, I've done it myself a few years ago. :icon_cheers:

That's what they're designed for so you don't have too worry about wiring them up yourself.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/221816416250?limghlpsr=true&hlpht=true&ul_noapp=true&hlpv=2&chn=ps&lpid=107&ops=true&viphx=1
http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=3853


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## takai (27/9/15)

You only need one O-ring to seal the element. Put it on the inside with a recessed 1" nut.


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## Camo6 (27/9/15)

A weldless element makes contact via the lock nut but an additional earth wouldn't hurt.

In a perfect world we wouldn't need an earth system. It doesn't serve any purpose in an electrical circuit other than protecting life. Unfortunately, due to some prick Murphy and his messed up laws, shit happens.

Say you had a seal leak a trail of water over your active and down the plastic separator to the pot wall. As the seal has insulated the element from the pot (containing lovely pure de-ionised water) the pot becomes live. It's sitting on a wooden bench so there's no path to ground and it's happy sitting there full of potential difference.

Would you be comfortable relying on an RCD to save you if you touched it? Forget fuses and circuit breakers, there only concerned about not setting the house on fire. An RCD measures earth leakage by comparing the incoming current with the outgoing current. It will only fault if some of this current goes to ground. If there's no path to ground it's happy for you to light up like a Christmas tree as long as you give back what you take.

I don't know why the OP is so adamant on this subject. If you can put a 40mm hole in a pot and stop it from leaking how hard is it to seal a 5mm hole? 

There's a reason these regulations are mandatory and, believe it or not, the main one is "because you might die."


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## Barge (27/9/15)

I'm just trying to understand how a weld free element is safer than installing your own. That has now been explained to me thanks to yourself and takai. 

I'm not questioning its necessity, I was just looking for a more informative response than "you might die". I get that 240V is dangerous, I just wanted to clarify how different setups such as weld free or earthing the enclosure also earths the pot at the same time.


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## Mardoo (27/9/15)

And thanks for your persistence. This is something I've been thinking about lately.


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## Camo6 (27/9/15)

Barge said:


> I'm just trying to understand how a weld free element is safer than installing your own. That has now been explained to me thanks to yourself and takai.
> 
> I'm not questioning its necessity, I was just looking for a more informative response than "you might die". I get that 240V is dangerous, I just wanted to clarify how different setups such as weld free or earthing the enclosure also earths the pot at the same time.


Yeah, sorry if I sound like a bug bear but this subject is being drilled into me ATM. Just wanted to contribute for future readers who might read this thread while considering the same.

No point making beer if you can't drink it.


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## Barge (27/9/15)

Absolutely. That's why I'm asking.

Seems weird that we emphasise the importance of earthing and having worked checked by a sparky and then retailers advertise elements that you screw in and you're ready to go. I reckon plenty of blokes might've installed them but not made sure of good contact with the pot. Equally, I reckon there's probably a few enclosures that are earthed but are isolated from the pot.

Anyhow, thanks for the info.


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## spog (27/9/15)

I have 2 of these Kmart kettle elements in my keggle I used the silicone O ring that came from the original kettle housing.
My keggle elements were installed by me following the procedure posted on an English HB site and using IEC connections/ cords.
I have the required leakage switches in my shed power board were I brew,I have been using this setup for a good 6 + years and I am still here.
Could be through sheer good luck but a sparky did say it would be fine.
My 2 c worth.


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## Camo6 (27/9/15)

It's not sheer good luck Spog. An earth is a safety measure. You could use those elements everyday for a millennia and never have a problem. The earth is there for the remote chance that one day there is a problem.
Sure a sparky might say it's fine but try and get him to sign off on it.


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## takai (27/9/15)

It is a matter of risk management. There are plenty of things that are ok without an earth, but a conductive vessel full of conductive liquid isn't one of them. Double insulated LV transformers, no problem.


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## booargy (27/9/15)

The earth cable provides a path to earth that has a lower resistance than a body. The element sheath will be earthed. A visible earth to the vessel is a good idea.


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## Pokey (27/9/15)

Barge said:


> I'm just trying to understand how a weld free element is safer than installing your own. That has now been explained to me thanks to yourself and takai.
> I'm not questioning its necessity, I was just looking for a more informative response than "you might die". I get that 240V is dangerous, I just wanted to clarify how different setups such as weld free or earthing the enclosure also earths the pot at the same time.


The weld less element should be installed as part of an electrical installation which will include earthing of the outer sheath and exposed non double insulated metals. The element removed from a kettle should already have the connection from the IEC plug to the element sheath. The way I see it they should both be earthed it just happens in different ways
And apart from the saving life, I've seen a switchboard completely burnt out because of a bad earth


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## spog (28/9/15)

Pics of the kettle elements in my rig using IEC plugs with silicone tube off cuts acting as a splash guard and the LEDs poking out of the top which show me that they are powered when in use.
The elements come from a K mart kettle and the silicone wall washer from the kettle was used also,the kettles were double insulated,I didn't cut or alter any of the wiring so are you blokes telling me I am seriously at risk of frying myself ?
I'll get a sparky mate to run his over it again but the sparky who eye balled it originally gave it the nod.

Cheers...spog...


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## Ducatiboy stu (28/9/15)

One end of the element is connected to neutral, which in turn is bonded to earth

If you going to put an element into a metal vessel, you need to earth the vessel

Having a floating circuit is NOT a good idea as you can get potential differences at an earth level then can be dangerous

Earth the vessel. 

Earth currents can be higher than you think


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## mudd (28/9/15)

So I'm thinking an earth bond to the same circuit the power comes from is in order. In my case I have element from reputable hbs in my liquor tank. I'll have check out how I mounted it. I was thinking of putting an additional element in to speed up brew day thanks for this thread a few tips on how to make sure its OK.

So what about that steel framed brew stand the kettles sitting on. Wouldn't it make sense to earth that as well.
Cheers Mudd.


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## Ducatiboy stu (28/9/15)

Earth the vessel directly to the green wire of your cable via a crimped lug on a threaded post Easiest way is to weld a small stainless bolt to the vessel

An earth connection should be VERY robust and be the very last connection to break

Do not bond the element neutral to the vessel, this defeats the purpose of an ELCB

If you are using a metal vessel with an electric element and you havnt got the vessel earthed, you are a ******* idiot

Remember thats its full of water, and if the element fails and the pot comes live, you could die, true story.

Earthing is actually way more important than what most people would think


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## Ducatiboy stu (28/9/15)

mudd said:


> So what about that steel framed brew stand the kettles sitting on. Wouldn't it make sense to earth that as well.
> Cheers Mudd.


Wont hurt to bond it togethor


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## Barge (28/9/15)

I was thinking of setting up something along these lines

http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/heating-elements?page=7

Do you think the contact between the kettle and the enclosure via the washer is enough for a good earth?

Might have to go the stainless bolt idea instead.


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## Tex N Oz (28/9/15)

I don't think earthing the element is necessary for code as long as the vessel that holds the medium you are heating is earthed or insulated (plastic). Should the element refractory be compromised and expose the filament, the path to ground will instantly be the vessel through that medium. If your medium is deionised water, then you are insulated from the potential difference by that.
With that said, if someone handed me a metal kettle with a 2 prong plug, I'd show it to the tip, quick smart.
Residual current devices trip at 32ma by code, but that's enough to get your attention. Albeit not enough to kill you, it freakin hurts like all shit.

I agree with Camo6. Anything you can do to help prevent gettin your dick knocked in the dirt is good practice. There's nothing good about gettin zapped. Best case scenario you get a punch in the guts and you taste copper for a week.... and the other is a dirt nap. I only use copper elements (Australian or US made) and I always silver solder my ground straight to the case.

Try and stay away from those China made elements. They're shit and dangerous in my opinion.


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## Camo6 (28/9/15)

spog said:


> image.jpg
> image.jpg
> image.jpg
> 
> ...


Spog, the kettles you took the elements from were double insulated as they were made from plastic and no conductive parts were exposed. Now that they're fixed to a metal vessel they're not double insulated and it'd be worth earthing the pot for your own safety.


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## Ducatiboy stu (28/9/15)

Camo6 said:


> Spog, the kettles you took the elements from were double insulated as they were made from plastic and no conductive parts were exposed. Now that they're fixed to a metal vessel they're not double insulated and *you should earth* the pot for your own safety.


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## Barge (29/9/15)

I'm thinking of setting it up as shown below. This is from a youtube vid of a bloke who as installed the same type of element. 




I'm not happy to leave it like this however.

I'm thinking a waterproof enclosure and cable gland and then connecting the enclosure to the same earth as the element.

As I asked earlier, the kettle would be in contact with the enclosure in a similar manner to here

I'm just not sure the contact between the element and the enclosure is sufficient for a good earth this way.


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## Tex N Oz (29/9/15)

Barge said:


> I'm thinking of setting it up as shown below. This is from a youtube vid of a bloke who as installed the same type of element.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why not Just knock a 4 mm hole in the side of the kettle and jump that ground wire over from the back of the element to a flathead bolt ?

If in doubt, check it with an Ohm meter. All it needs is less than 1Ω resistance and you'd be sweet if you have an RCD inline..


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## real_beer (29/9/15)

Barge, years ago when I used a kettle element it was from a SS kettle and one whole side of it was the earth connection as it was tightened into place. Double insulated appliances even if they have a three pronged plug usually don't have a wire running through them and most have only two prongs. If the person in the pic has put a washer on both sides of that pot it wont be earthed. The elements the home brew shops sell for people to install themselves only have one washer to seal the fitting the other side is the earth. Like people are saying an unearthed setup will work fine until a fault rears up, and with cheap elements in kettles getting cheaper and cheaper in quality these days it will probably be sooner than later. Running a ss bolt through the pot and fitting a tab on the earth wire to fit on it would be a better idea.


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## Barge (29/9/15)

Just to clarify. The washer between the kettle, element and enclosute would be stainless steel. I figured this would be enough to earth it. There would be a silicone washer that would sit inside (as in a smaller diameter) the washer. This would ensure no water can leak out.

FWIW, I'm thinking the 4mm screw through both the enclosure and the pot and then earthed would be a safer idea.


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## real_beer (29/9/15)

Barge said:


> Just to clarify. The washer between the kettle, element and enclosute would be stainless steel. I figured this would be enough to earth it. There would be a silicone washer that would sit inside (as in a smaller diameter) the washer. This would ensure no water can leak out.
> 
> FWIW, I'm thinking the 4mm screw through both the enclosure and the pot and then earthed would be a safer idea.


Your earth wire making good solid contact with your vessel is the important point. If you go with a bolt through the pot use a spring washer on the nut to keep it tight..


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## Tex N Oz (29/9/15)

Here you can see the tiny wire that grounds a 3.6kW element for the hot water elements that I use.
I guess Rheem has engineered this is all that's required to make it safe. Makes sense as the heater itself is also grounded.




This is the picture of element as it's stripped from the mounting assembly. I'll modify this and make a completely water-proof and sealed tri-clover style mountable element that is completely grounded.


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## real_beer (29/9/15)

Tex N Oz said:


> IMG_0490.JPG
> 
> This is the picture of element as it's stripped from the mounting assembly. I'll modify this and make a completely water-proof and sealed tri-clover style mountable element that is completely grounded.


Tex, if you pushed the element in the pic through the stones and into the ground about 75mm you'd have a pretty good ground there. It would be even better if the soil was moist :icon_cheers:


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## Tex N Oz (29/9/15)

real_beer said:


> Tex, if you pushed the element in the pic through the stones and into the ground about 75mm you'd have a pretty good ground there. It would be even better if the soil was moist :icon_cheers:


Under the stones is a concrete slab which is a very poor conductor..


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## real_beer (29/9/15)

Tex N Oz said:


> Under the stones is a concrete slab which is a very poor conductor..


Mate your a genius! If Barge makes up a pair of concrete boots too use when brewing they could help insulate him from an unearthed pot and maybe save serious injury, brilliant. :lol:


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## Tex N Oz (29/9/15)

real_beer said:


> Mate your a genius! If Barge makes up a pair of concrete boots too use when brewing they could help insulate him from an unearthed pot and maybe save serious injury, brilliant. :lol:


Problem solved!!! Then he can go for a quick swim in the pool when he's finished!! B)


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## Barge (29/9/15)

real_beer said:


> Mate your a genius! If Barge makes up a pair of concrete boots too use when brewing they could help insulate him from an unearthed pot and maybe save serious injury, brilliant. :lol:


I was just gunna wear me thongs mate.


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## Tex N Oz (29/9/15)

Well here's a good compromise. Sandal like comfort with the safety of concrete insulation. Nevermind the rebar...


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## real_beer (29/9/15)

Edit

Muffed up MultiQuote below :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## real_beer (29/9/15)

Tex N Oz said:


> Problem solved!!! Then he can go for a quick swim in the pool when he's finished!! B)





Barge said:


> I was just gunna wear me thongs mate.





Tex N Oz said:


> concrete-shoes.JPG
> 
> Well here's a good compromise. Sandal like comfort with the safety of concrete insulation. Nevermind the rebar...


 :lol: :lol: :lol: good stuff boys.


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## Barge (1/10/15)

Making some progress.

I have an enclosure and cable gland sorted. Just need to drill the kettle, hook it up and get it checked. 

In the meantime I thought I'd check with you blokes if I'm good to go with an RCD. I'm pretty sure the 10A, 15A and spa circuits are fitted with RCDs but I thought I'd see what you guys think.




Cheers


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## dblunn (1/10/15)

Yes, also the 10A is a 3ph cct.


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## Tex N Oz (1/10/15)

Do you have an RCD at the meter box?


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## Barge (1/10/15)

That is the meter box. Meters are on the outside wall directly opppsite. Switches are inside.


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## Barge (1/10/15)

dblunn said:


> Yes, also the 10A is a 3ph cct.


Cheers


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## Tex N Oz (1/10/15)

Barge said:


> That is the meter box. Meters are on the outside wall directly opppsite. Switches are inside.


Just curious as my house had ZERO RCDs when I moved in. didn't have room to add so I just put a massive 45Amp RCD whole house in the meter panel. Shits me to no end when one thing trips the whole damn house though. Decided to do a major upgrade to 250A 3Ø and rewire the entire house as all the old PVC is breaking down.

Now I've got enough room to add those individual RCD breakers!! Good times!!


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## Barge (1/10/15)

Tex N Oz said:


> Just curious as my house had ZERO RCDs when I moved in. didn't have room to add so I just put a massive 45Amp RCD whole house in the meter panel. Shits me to no end when one thing trips the whole damn house though. Decided to do a major upgrade to 250A 3Ø and rewire the entire house as all the old PVC is breaking down.


No worries. My place is a 40 year old, owner/builder job that had the old style ceramic fuse box. One day the HWS fuse and wire totally melted. FUBAR. Turns out it was underwired. Anyhow, got a sparky out and he re-did the box and fixed the HWS circuit for about $800.

At the time I wasn't thinking electric brewery so I didn't pay attention to what he put in.


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/10/15)

dblunn said:


> Yes, also the 10A is a 3ph cct.



Um...no


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## Barge (1/10/15)

No to the RCDs or no to the 3 phase?


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/10/15)

The 3 phase bit


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## Barge (1/10/15)

Thought so. Thanks.


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/10/15)

Tex N Oz said:


> Just curious as my house had ZERO RCDs when I moved in. didn't have room to add so I just put a massive 45Amp RCD whole house in the meter panel. Shits me to no end when one thing trips the whole damn house though. Decided to do a major upgrade to 250A 3Ø and rewire the entire house as all the old PVC is breaking down.
> 
> Now I've got enough room to add those individual RCD breakers!! Good times!!
> 
> ...



Most domestic supplies here have 65A RCD. Dont know why you went 45A.....

Supply authorities allow 65A max load for domestic premises


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## Tex N Oz (1/10/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> The 3 phase bit


That's a 3phase GFI isn't it?


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## Tex N Oz (1/10/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Most domestic supplies here have 65A RCD. Dont know why you went 45A.....
> 
> Supply authorities allow 65A max load for domestic premises


Because it was free!! h34r:


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## Barge (1/10/15)




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## Ducatiboy stu (1/10/15)

Tex N Oz said:


> That's a 3phase GFI isn't it?


Bottom left side...

yeah i think i missed it

Not many residential places have 3phase


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## Barge (1/10/15)

What does that allow?


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/10/15)

Barge said:


> What does that allow?


More suited to things like motors and industrial gear, big aircon and fridge units that need lots of power...we are talking over 20A load

3phase domestically brings problems of load balancing between the phases. Commercial buildings will almost allways have 3phase.

It is basically 3 x 240v supplies at 120* phase difference to give you 415v ( bit of math involved there....3 x 240 doesnt not appear to equal 415v )

When you look at the power lines in your street they are 3phase, but what they do is run each house down the street off a different phase


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## Tex N Oz (1/10/15)

240 X the square root of 3 shows line to line potential difference of 415V RMS...
YES!!!! First time in my life I got to say that and wasn't in the company of a huge lot of nerds!!


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/10/15)

Could be bothered trying to explain further

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-phase_electric_power


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## Tex N Oz (1/10/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Could be bothered trying to explain further
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-phase_electric_power


After a few beers I feel incredibly smart... and witty, and awesome like a ninja. h34r:


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## Barge (1/10/15)

Tex N Oz said:


> First time in my life I got to say that and wasn't in the company of a huge lot of nerds!!


Don't be so sure. Year 12 physics is starting to come back to me!


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## Barge (1/10/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Could be bothered trying to explain further
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-phase_electric_power


No worries. Thanks for that. I figured that 3 phase was about drawing higher current but assumed i wouldn't have it as I only have 15A circuits.


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/10/15)

Tex N Oz said:


> After a few beers I feel incredibly smart... and witty, and awesome like a ninja. h34r:


 Been a long week... few beers at the pub and a glass of red in my hand

To tired be feeling awsome, smart and ninja like



But i will say this

*IF you know nothing about electricity, or you just googled how to do it, do your self a favor and leave it alone. Leave it to those who know what they are doing*

*The internet does NOT teach you the finer points .*

*Dont **** with electricity. IT CAN & WILL KILL YOU*

It still scares the shit out of me after all these years....mind you I have been bitten a number of time to no longer enjoy it...its not fun... or is it like licking a 9v battery


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## Barge (1/10/15)

I hear you. Definitely getting the work checked by a licensed electrician. Just trying to get ideas from people who understand the application.


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## Tex N Oz (1/10/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Been a long week... few beers at the pub and a glass of red in my hand
> 
> To tired be feeling awsome, smart and ninja like
> 
> ...


It's that metallic copper taste you have for a week after a really bad hit.. 
It's nice to be retired!! BTW I've got a Fluke 1550B and a Fluke 434 PQA I'm about to put on eBay. (Gettin the word out). Got pictures of you know of anyone interested...


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/10/15)

My goto meter is the good old Fluke 87

What a work horse. You just cant kill them with the rubber case. Lost count the amount of time over the years I dropped it on hard surfaces from off ladders

Mind you they are not cheap, but the best you can get B)


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## Tex N Oz (1/10/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> My goto meter is the good old Fluke 87
> 
> What a work horse. You just cant kill them with the rubber case. Lost count the amount of time over the years I dropped it on hard surfaces from off ladders
> 
> Mind you they are not cheap, but the best you can get B)


If I could hit Like This a million times I would have!!
My FAVOURITE meter of all time!!! Nothing before or since can touch the durability and reliability of the ole 87.
LOVE that meter!!
You can see the 189 sitting there almost brand new and untouched? There's a reason..
Even the screen of my 87 has slowly cracked over the last 10 years but I don't care. Even at 20 years old it's my favourite and it will be a sad day when it gets retired..


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/10/15)

They are just so reliable and accurate.

Mine used to get thrown in the tool bag with all sorts of sharp pointy things, never hurt it

Great display that was clear to read in really shit conditions


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## mudd (1/10/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Um...no





Tex N Oz said:


> 240 X the square root of 3 shows line to line potential difference of 415V RMS...
> YES!!!! First time in my life I got to say that and wasn't in the company of a huge lot of nerds!!


Sorry buddy have you forgotten where you are. Nano nano


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## Tex N Oz (1/10/15)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> They are just so reliable and accurate.
> 
> Mine used to get thrown in the tool bag with all sorts of sharp pointy things, never hurt it
> 
> Great display that was clear to read in really shit conditions


Delta airline (don't know how) cracked the screen in the corner of that one in '94. I've since gotten smart and put every meter I own in real Pelican cases so they don't bust em up.
So far so good. I've been all over the world with these cases and I've not had a single meter damaged. 
Here's a true story. -60°C outside and I'm hanging off the side of a huge oil dredge machine in Fort McMurray Alberta, Canada. NOTHING worked. No meter would even think about coming to life.
Pulled out my 87 and though a bit dim, she worked like a trooper. I've drug her through hell and high water and she's never let me down.

A few of my meters in their cases. While I hate to part with em, I'm gonna eventually let them all have new homes.


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## Barge (2/10/15)

Installed element and enclosure. As you can see in the pics the enclosure and element is still isolated from the kettle. I'm going to attach the enclosure to the kettle with a 4mm bolt to earth it. Sparky's happy with it so far.

Cheers


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