# Stalled Fermentation At 1018



## milligan (17/11/08)

Hello all, Sorry my first post is a question but as a newbie brewer I have nothing contribute yet. I ama little concerned as my first brew (Coopers Heritage Lager + Coopers light malt + dry yeast pitched into a half baked attempt at a starter (more of a rehydration job) + tap water). Pitched yeast around 26c - 28c. Fermentation started quickly enough and the wort has been sitting in my garage in temp around 28c down to 24c at night. Starting gravity was 1037 and is now 1018 after 5 days. Yesterday the gravity was 1020 so it is still happening, but slowly (so I guess it isnt stalled really). My concern is that at 5 days and only dropping 2 gravtities (what are they called????) I cant see it getting to 1007 (or so) in the next few days.

If it does stop in the high teens do I just bottle or do I fertilize the garden?

Im wanting to put down a coopers mexican cerveza (Ive read the forums so I know what most of you think) and experiment with some lime, lemon and chillis in a few of the bottles (not all together, though).

Thanks guys...now Im back to the search function. Cheers

EDIT: Just found something similar here already by using different search terms. Would still appreciate any replies based on these specifics, though.


----------



## rclemmett (17/11/08)

How much light malt? Was it dry or liquid? What is "dry yeast"? Why does it need to get to 1007?


----------



## brendo (17/11/08)

firstly welcome to the addiction. Secondly - doot worry brews tend to slow down a bit once the foam drops in as you have said it is still dropping gravity points so let it keep going - i regularly in about 2 weeks. As long as it is still dropping all is cool. Lastly - those temps are pretty high try getting the temps down with some ice bottles or shift to somewhere a bit more stable. High temps are good for causing hangover material. Good luck.


----------



## cdbrown (17/11/08)

Rob2 said:


> How much light malt? Was it dry or liquid? What is "dry yeast"? Why does it need to get to 1007?



Probably says something on the tin that this should be the FG. 

Just let it go milligan and test it every day or so. Have a taste of it after you've measured the SG to see how it's tracking. I'm sure it's fine, maybe there wasn't enough viable yeast when it was pitched so it took a while for it to take off.

When you have the FG the same for a few days, leave it for another couple and then bottle.


----------



## milligan (17/11/08)

Thanks for the speedy replies. 

The 1007 came from a number in the little instruction book under the cap of the malt (although it was a range). I do understand that by using malt the FG will be higher though (is that right).

It was 1kg of light malt liquid (or whatever the standard can is - Im sure it was 1kg).

The dry yeast was the little satchel that came with the can (it was actually a replacement as the can was past the use by date). I think it was "brewmaster" or something similar. Just your basic K mart satchel of brewers yeast.

I will try a few things to get the temp down (although it is probably too late now, yes?) I don't need to accentuate any hangovers. Ill drink red wine for that 

I will just relax and let it go as you guys have suggested. I have been tasting it to get a feel for the process and it taste fine, no off tastes or smells. Its actually not too bad. I just dont want to lose it.

I read elswhere here that I could rock the fermentor and stir it with a clean spoon to see if it gets it going again. Would this be worth a shot? 

Thanks again.


----------



## rclemmett (17/11/08)

If I were you I'd just try and get the temp down to the low twenties. I wouldn't bother with any shaking or stirring, as the yeast sounds like it is still going. I think the coopers liquid malts only come in 1.5kg tins, so depending on the yeast, I'd expect an FG of 1010-1014. Kits tend to darken with age, so depending on how out of date it was it might be a little darker than expected. 

It's a good idea to let it sit for a while in the fermenter. I leave all my beers for a minimum of two weeks.

Just cool it down and sit back and relax. Oh, and have a beer. :icon_cheers:


----------



## Barge (17/11/08)

milligan said:


> I read elswhere here that I could rock the fermentor and stir it with a clean spoon to see if it gets it going again. Would this be worth a shot?



That's definately worth a go. I just had to rouse some Nottingham yeast in my stout because it settled out (flocculated) before the job was done.

Your other options are to pitch more yeast straight in, or make a starter (maybe 1-1.5L) and chuck that in when the starter is fermenting its tits off (reaching high krausen).

Give it time though, it'll still be drinkable even if it ends up in the mid-teens

Oh, and in future, definately use more yeast. The sachets that come with the kits are designed to ferment out a kit + a kilo of sugar. The kilo of malt extract makes it harder for the yeasties so you need to pich more. And aim for around 20C.

All the best!


----------



## Barge (17/11/08)

Rob2 said:


> If I were you I'd just try and get the temp down to the low twenties. I wouldn't bother with any shaking or stirring, as the yeast sounds like it is still going.



I'm not so sure this is a good idea as the yeast are happily fermenting in the current conditions. Cooling them down, even within viable temp range, may shock them and stop them all together. Maybe someone more enlightened may be able to help here.


----------



## rclemmett (17/11/08)

Yeast shock happens with sudden changes in temperature. Hence the use of shock. To change the temperature of 23L of liquid rapidly would require a massive change, which you're not going to get from some ice cubes and a blanket, or even a fridge for that matter. The shock will happen when you pitch your yeast, as it is a small mass being thrown into a far larger mass of different temperature.

I have found in my experience that low fermentation temps lead to better tasting beer, depending on the style of course.


----------



## Fermented (17/11/08)

Give it a few more days. 

It's almost identical to my first one, including the temperature spike. OG=142, FG=1010 at seven days. I let it sit a couple more but didn't re-test prior to bottling. Came out tasting rather OK and put me off buying megaswill forever.

Don't pop the lid and stir. It's a chance for infection. If you're really keen you can give it a circular rock to kick the yeast up again, but it's probably not necessary. 

Like a lot of things in life, this is one of those hobbies that sometimes you need to just let it happen, and for the most part, happen it will. 

Lotsa luck!

Cheers - Fermented.


----------



## milligan (17/11/08)

Thanks again guys. It appear the range of action is from nothing to rocking to stirring. I will try all of these over the next few days. I will leave it and check the gravity over the next few days. If it definitely stalls I will rock it. If that doesn't budge it I will give it a stir. I want to do everything to minimise any chance of an infection so I will leave it to last. So that way I will follow all advice to different levels and will be much more the wiser for the different actions performed. 

Regardless I will report back the results of these actions and the final result for the benefit of others in my position.

Thank you all again.


----------



## milligan (17/11/08)

Just went through the bin and wanted to confirm the malt extract was 1.5 kgs as Rob2 said.


----------



## clarkey7 (17/11/08)

milligan said:


> Just went through the bin and wanted to confirm the malt extract was 1.5 kgs as Rob2 said.


Milligan,

I'd say that beer may be a tad sweet (unless the original coopers kit is really bitter) with an extra 1.5kg of liquid malt and no extra hops to balance it.

Anyway - you'll figure out how you like your beers...that the fun part. Good luck with it all.

Once again..welcome to the forum and addictive hobby.

PB :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## flattop (17/11/08)

yup, a couple of points...
Has the krausen head collapsed and all you see is beer through the lid? If so it's slowing down.
It's common for the brew to slow down, most guys let them go for 14 days before bottling, my suggestion would be to gently agitate the fermenter, do not splash, kind of swill it around gently, this will rouse the yeast and sugars from the bottom.
Next point, do NOT open the lid and stir if you can avoid it, 95% chance it wont do any harm and stir the yeast up and 5% will be something is not sterile and you will end up with a yeast infection and go completely lambic .
I wouldn't expect dynamite activity from here on, but i would swill it, give it about 3-5 days more then drop in some finings to clear it up and this will help the yeast fall to the bottom.
Don't worry about starters too much starters are good but rehydrating is fine.


----------



## milligan (18/11/08)

OK. 1.018, maybe 1.017, for the 2nd day straight. I couldn't help myself and gently swirled the fermenter around to agitate the yeast. The temp on the brew is about 21c at the moment (not by my doing - just mother nature). 

The krausen head (I'll have to look that up - I'm assuming that's the frothy stuff on top) has definitely collapsed completely. 

I'll now have to be patient and let it sit for another few days. Im just gonna have to buy another fermenter. I cant handle this waiting business. Thanks again.


----------



## Fermented (18/11/08)

The numbers (OG, current SG) don't quote add up for me. 

Everything that I have done which is similar to you starts >1040 and ends around 1010, nominally between four and seven days for the first of the stable final readings (i.e. one or two days before bottling). 

Can you please check your hydrometer? 

Cheers - Fermented.


----------



## brendo (18/11/08)

milligan said:


> Im just gonna have to buy another fermenter.



+1 for buying a second fermenter - brew twice as much twice as often :icon_cheers: 

+1 for also checking your hydrometer - fill your test jar with water at 20 degrees and take a reading as per normal - should read at around 1.000.

i still reckon you just need to give it a bit more time... sometimes it just needs it and it certainly won't hurt the end product.

Cheers,

Brendo


----------



## buttersd70 (18/11/08)

the OG makes sense if volume is 25L....and for many fermenters, the 23L mark is actually 25L when it's measured.....but the FG is _really _high. The rule of thumb is that if FG is stable over 3 readings one day apart, then its finished....but in some cases (ie stalled ferment), thats just not right. It really only applies if the FG is at least within a _reasonable _range of whats expected, given the ingredients.

In this case, I would be expecting somewhere in the region of 1010, like fermented said.....theres too much difference between 1010 and 1018 for me to be comfortable that it's actually finished. I would be treating it as a stalled ferment, rather than one thats just finished slightly higher than expected.

step 1 is to swirl the yeast back into suspension, which you've done....give it a few days, check it again. If it still hasn't dropped....
step 2 is to rack it to another fermenter or a cube....the extra agitation caused by this should (hopefully) kick it off again. Wait a few das again, and check the grav...if it still hasn't dropped, 
step 3 is to scratch your head, trust in Aegor, and bottle it...in plastic, _not _glass, and keep a _very _close eye on it, venting the bottles if necessary to prevent bombs.

But _definately _check your hydrometer with either distilled water (preferable) or cooled boiled water at 20C exactly.

Note...missing letters due to dodgy keyboard batteries. :lol:


----------



## Jase71 (18/11/08)

brendo said:


> +1 for buying a second fermenter - brew twice as much twice as often :icon_cheers:



As a single fermenter owner, I'm starting to think that three pails is probably more practical, if one wants to do a secondary fermentation on the first, a new primary after that's racked and resting, and a third one for bulk priming your original one. Rinse, repeat.


----------



## Pollux (18/11/08)

I have two fermenters, one cube and also recently discovered one of my buckets had a tap thread that accommodates the style taps I use on the fermenters/cube....

Also got some smaller buckets, will mount taps to the bucket, and airlocks to the lid and make mini batches of AG within the next few weeks.


----------



## flattop (18/11/08)

Yeah Jase i agree with the 3 fermenter theory, but with one problem, i used one for racking then realized i could increase my brewing capacity by 33% by not racking and leaving in the primary for 2 weeks instead, i don't bulk prime (as yet) so why not have 3 brews in the primary 3 pails, dry hop and then add finings during week 2 and bottle on about day 12-14. As i don't have a spare fridge for the fermenter i am aiming to get another 3-4 brews done in the next month this way before it gets too hot.

Agree with Butters, this is not a brew to lay down in glass. Buy 30 PET bottles (they are reusable anyhow) Cost about $12 for 15 bottles at BigW.
I use a mix of these and glass and for short term bottling the PET are easy to use and lighter and don't blow up.
Shortcomings are a shorter shelf life (after 12-18 months they apparently lose carbonation).


----------



## buttersd70 (18/11/08)

I prefer glass, but kept my pet for this very reason....only had this issue once, but once is enough - no bombs actually happened, but I had constant fear of explosions on that one batch :lol:


----------



## Jase71 (18/11/08)

flattop said:


> realized i could increase my brewing capacity by 33% by not racking and leaving in the primary for 2 weeks instead,



huh ? You lose a third in transferring from one vessel to another ?


----------



## brendo (18/11/08)

Jase71 said:


> As a single fermenter owner, I'm starting to think that three pails is probably more practical, if one wants to do a secondary fermentation on the first, a new primary after that's racked and resting, and a third one for bulk priming your original one. Rinse, repeat.



yep... 3 is better than 2, I have two that I regularly use for fermenting and one for lagering, so generally all three are often full.

That said, 2 is still better than 1 B)


----------



## milligan (19/11/08)

After swirling the fermenter yesterday I am reading somewhere between 1.107 or 1.018 at around 21c. So there may have been a little movement but not much. And I sat there watching for bubbles out of the airlock for a little while but saw nothing. 

Checked the hydrometer just now and it appear to be on the money. I am only guessing that the temp is 20c however (I need a proper thermometer). Regardless if it is off its only a point or so, not 5, unfortunately. 

I am not very confident in this brew and want to put another down so I will either bottle or go and get one of those cube thingy's. The temp at the moment is about 21c so I want to get another happening and try my hand at temp control on the next brew.

And this time I will make sure the kit is not out of date (thanks hardware store dude) and am going to pitch the dry yeast not attempt a starter. Just another chance for an infection.

Thanks again for all the input.


----------



## raven19 (19/11/08)

Jase71 said:


> huh ? You lose a third in transferring from one vessel to another ?



I think reference is being made that with more vessels one can make more beer...

+2 for extra fermenter.


----------



## Fermented (19/11/08)

Good to hear that your hydrometer is on the money. The irregularities still don't make sense, but with anything involving biologics, there is always a chance of some randomness.

Good idea. Racking to a secondary will give it a chance to hopefully finish up well. Maybe get a second fermenter to use as the secondary so that when you need to do a couple of quick brews (ales, etc which you can get away without going to secondary for some kinds), then you can have two batches on the go.

Rather than making a starter, you may find that rehydrating the yeast (25C-30C water, 500 mls - 1 litre, stir in dry yeast gradually with a sanitised spoon) will aid in the homogeneity of the mix and assist an early start to fermentation. That, combined with good aeration (through vigorous stirring of the wort or through aggressive addition of water to top up the wort to your chosen volume) prior to pitching makes quite a difference in the speed at which fermentation begins. Just beware that the rehydration water should be only mildly warm. A thermometer is a really good investment because frankly our hands are lousy at it. I stopped being a fan of dry yeasting because of the slow kick off. YMMV, etc.

I've found a big help in quality and certainty is good quality yeast from the LHBS. The taste improvement is immediately noticeable over the stock kit yeast. The cans of goo are kept pretty badly by non-LHBS vendors for the most part and that has, I'm pretty sure, a negative effect on the quality of the yeast and its viability. 

Don't worry about the airlock. It's a nice indicator that something is happening and it's somewhat reassuring. The only real measure is SG movement but the pleasurable visual indicator is krausen up, krausen collapse, krausen vanish.

Some folk go nuts with temperature control. For K&K and K&E, I feel it's not a huge issue. If you can manage 18-22C, then that's fine. If it's a touch warmer, no biggie. It's not like you're going to end up with pot-still-like fusel oils. Getting reliable and consistent results of quality which you can accept for a few brews is more important and then move on to finessing. Too many variables being adjusted at the same time can lead to unexpected results and frustration if they're not positive results.

Lots of luck with your next brew!

Cheers - Fermented.

EDIT: Refined really poor grammar, improved two sentences.


----------



## milligan (19/11/08)

Fermented,
After my last post I lost the plot and shook the fermenter. I actually went out to stir it with my sterlised spoon but couldn't crack the top with my weak arms. The Krausen you speak of is back but I remember reading that aerating the finished brew (well its not finished I suppose) is NO GOOD.

What have I done????

It has some crap on top but not web like as I have read is a sign of an infection. 
Maybe I should hide this fermneter for a week and right now go and buy a new one and start the next batch. That way I can do my novice fussing over it. Then I will check the other in a week and the beer gods may have fixed it. 

If I just stuck to one plan I might be alright.


----------



## Fermented (19/11/08)

Aeration of the wort prior to pitch = good. Aeration after that = BAD. 

If the krausen is back, then it's going again. It will take 12 - 36 hours to kick off again fully. 

Leave the lid on, do as you've suggested and get a new vessel and kick off the next one before the weather gets too hot to do it without temperature control.

Cheers - Fermented. 

PS - Where are you located?


----------



## milligan (19/11/08)

Thanks again Fermented. 

I am up the north coast at Lennox Head. So temp control in summer should be fun.

I have a fridge sitting in the shed turned off at the moment and started looking at temperature control. I think I will just use it as a box for the brew and chuck in some big ice blocks. Or if that doesnt work I will go as far as the low tech timer setup. But rewiring the thermostat is a bit above my level for the time being.


----------



## Fermented (19/11/08)

The fridge sounds like the go. There is a lot of stuff on here about temp control and well worth reading. I don't envy you guys up north one little bit for the summer heat.

Maybe there is someone up your way who can give you a hand on wiring a temp controller?

Oh - and as for having troubles getting the lid off the fermenter, try a tea-towel. I'm strong as an ox but it seems that I screw it on far too well after a sherbert or two when I am making a batch. See - beer does make you stronger!

Cheers - Fermented.


----------



## buttersd70 (19/11/08)

milligan
that much aeration at such a late stage of fermentation makes it likely that the beer will oxidise fairly quickly, which will either give a cardboard or a sherry like flavour....how long will this take? how long is a string....it might happen in a week, a month, or six months, theres no way of knowing. Regardless, it won't happen overnight.

My suggestion....let it finish fermenting (which with the added aeration, it should now happily do), when its done, bottle it as normal. Don't stress about the oxidation of it, theres no point, whats done is done.....but don't plan on leaving this batch to age for 6 to 12 months, it probably won't make it that far. Drink it reasonably quickly, you will hopefully get through the batch (or at least a good portion of it) before it starts to turn. Take it as a learning experience, and move on to the next batch. But don't ditch a beer untill you really need to. Beer is funny stuff......sometimes even beers that start as disasters turn out OK.


----------



## cdbrown (19/11/08)

For the next brew a fridgemate and fridge make things alot nicer. Dial in the temp you want to maintain and the fridge will turn on and off to suit. And wiring them up is very easy. Hope your current brew sorts itself out.


----------



## rclemmett (19/11/08)

milligan said:


> (thanks hardware store dude)



Your hardware store sells homebrew?! AWESOME! :beerbang:


----------



## Pollux (19/11/08)

Rob2 said:


> Your hardware store sells homebrew?! AWESOME! :beerbang:



This reminds me of my great business idea...

I wanted to combine Bunnings, Supercheap, a fishing store, camping gear and a HBS in the one premises.....


Blokeworld sounds like a good name.


----------



## Fermented (19/11/08)

They used to call it "Gowings". 

It went broke. 

There was not a thing there that a bloke/man/gent could not find a decent use for, imho.

[more crying in one's beer]

Cheers - Fermented.


----------



## milligan (22/11/08)

Just got back from a ltittle trip away and checked the progress. The brew is down to 1.016 how at about 25o c. I guess that is it. So I will bottle it. 

As to drinking it fairly quickly - I don't think it will make it to xmas with the lot I will be serving it to, especially if I tell them they have to drink it quickly.


If the fridgemate wiringi is easy enough I will give it a crack. I just spent $50 on a digital thermometer for the fridge and a timer, in an attempt to avoid the expense of going the fridgemate. For not much more I could get a fridgemate to do the job properly. 


The hardware store sells out of date homebrew and he is getting out of it. What a shame as I am just getting into it. Iight be able to take the gear off him for a better price, though.


Im off to the (e)store to buy a fridgemate.


----------



## buttersd70 (22/11/08)

Given that the FG is still pretty high, I'd suggest that after bottling, open one in a week. Normally, a week is not long enough for full carbonation (see the multiple posts reffering to flat beer, where people are told to be patient  )....if this bottle is undercarbed, or only just carbed, it should be ok...but if it's highly carbed in such a short time, it will give you chance to consider venting the other bottles before they go ballistic.  You may end up ditching that one because it's flat as a tack, but thats a small price for peace of mind, imo.


----------



## milligan (26/11/08)

OK. I ended up leaving it a few more day. Now its 1.016 at 24o. The taste has changed over the past few day but not in a bad way and it is very clear. I will bottle now and follow Butters suggestions and post back here with further updates.


----------



## brettprevans (26/11/08)

Barge said:


> Oh, and in future, definately use more yeast. The sachets that come with the kits are designed to ferment out a kit + a kilo of sugar. The kilo of malt extract makes it harder for the yeasties so you need to pich more. And aim for around 20C.
> All the best!


for a avg gravity ale (~1040) only 1 packets is really needed. ive only ever used 1 pack of yeast (not even rehydrated it) for avgerae gravity ales. never any problems. 2 packs of yeast for lagers sure.

of course theres nothing wrong with using a starter (unless you massively overpitch), but not eveyone has the time.

use a better yeast than comes with the kits anyway. they are a better quality and generally have been looked after better so the yeast is healthier. Also to note a pack of say nottingham dried yeast has exactly the same number of yeast cells as a tin yeast (well its meant to).

Also the gravity of your beer will drop a lot slower the lower it gets. so you will see smaller changes over a greater amount of time the closer it gets to 1000. PS ive never ever had a beer come in under 1012. its not biggy. so long as its finished fermentation your right to bottle.


----------



## milligan (29/11/08)

I was about to bottle this disaster today (29/11) but did one final check on the gravoty. It is 1.1015 at 24o so it hasnt really moved.

Now this is the problem. When I started the bloke at the hardware shop who sold it to me said that the kits was out of date but that doesn't matter. Now I've had some issues with this brew and the taste has changed a lot. There doesn't seem to be any skin on top of the brew but the taste leaves a bit of a twang in the end. In fact its about 5 minutes after the taste and that twang is still on the back of my tongue. If I had to struggle it reminds me of a metallic taste at 5 minutes after tasting.

Now given the facts, my lack of what a brew should taste like at this stage and that the bloke said he would refund my purchase given the expiry date and that I only have 60 bottles at this time should I:
a. be safe and toss it and do another, not expired, kits,
b. take the punt and bottle anyway.

Im thinking about tossing and getting my money back based on all the dramas with this brew. If bottles weren't scarce at the moment then I would probably give it a crack.

Any opinions/abuse/tips accepted.


----------



## buttersd70 (29/11/08)

I've used a tin that was given to me after sitting in a guys shed for 3 years, then another year in my shed....obviously the yeast on this one was dead, so I used another, but it turned into one of the best (non grain) beers I ever did....so I don't think the expiry would have much effect on any off-flavours (although it might explain, in part, the low attenuation from the yeast  )

I think the off lfavours you are getting are likely to be more due to the hot fermentation temperatures you had on this brew....

Beer does funny things in the bottle. Some beers that taste ferrel at bottling turn into good beers after a couple of months of aging in the bottle, and this one may fall into that category. At the end of the day, the decision to bottle or toss is yours...but personally, I would be bottling, and starting the next batch. Get yourself some more bottles...BigW stocks the coopers PET bottles, they're only something in the region of 12.00 for 15....

If you bottle, try one at 2 weeks, at 4 weeks, and at 6 weeks....see if the flavour improves (which it should). Keep notes. If after 6 weeks it has had no improvement _at all_, then I'd say to toss it.

Just my 2c. Either way, don't let the trouble you had with this first brew put you off. Give it another go. I'm sure you've learnt a fair bit since this brew went down, and you should be able to avoid these problems for your next attempt.


----------



## milligan (29/11/08)

Hey Butters. OK, so the use by may not present a problem so I will cross that off the list of negatives. However, just to be on the safe side I may try and avoid this in the future.

Re: the flavours. It was mentioned before that the hot fermentation may cause some "extra" flavours and increased chance of hangover. I have since got myself a fridgemate so hot ferments should be a thing of the past.

I have been trying to get some new PET bottles but everyone is always sold out. I guess every man and his dog are trying home brew for summer. I keep checking ebay for some local bottles as I cant see myself driving to Sydney for them, yet. Not quite that dedicated yet 

I will then bottle and call it a learning experience whatever happens.

This first brew has already taught me so much so no matter where it ends up it was definitely worth it.

Thanks again, Butters.


----------



## buttersd70 (29/11/08)

No worries.  

Out of date cans are certainly best to avoid...they darken with age, may not ferment out as fully as expected, and the level of bitterness may not be quite what was expected....It becomes a bit of an unknown. When I did mine, It was a bit of an extreme out of date (to say the least)....but at that point, I had enough experience with full extract brews to be able to use it in a recipe that was quite forgiving, so whilst I didn't get quite what I expected, I knew it would fall _somewhere _into the range of drinkable.


----------



## milligan (14/12/08)

Its Sunday 14/12/08 and this brew has been in the bottle for 15 days. I thought I'd try one to see how its going. 

Carbonation could be a little better but its not flat. There is no head to speak of. 

Tasting: there is a definite taste of celery and a little bit of "numb" (sorry I cant do any better there) on the front of my tongue as an after taste.

No off tastes to speak of but I dont really know.

Any hints on what this may be and any tips on how to taste beer (eg what to "look" for in a taste, etc).


----------



## buttersd70 (14/12/08)

milligan said:


> Its Sunday 14/12/08 and this brew has been in the bottle for 15 days. I thought I'd try one to see how its going.
> 
> Carbonation could be a little better but its not flat. There is no head to speak of.
> 
> ...


If it's a little under carbonated after 15 days, that's nothing to be overly concerned about, a bit of time will help that. In fact, in this case, it's a good thing, because the main concern was that you would have bottle bombs due to the high fg - so if it's under carbed after 15 days, its likely that you can stop worrying about that now.

Not sure what the tastes you have described are. But chances are, they will lessen in time. As far as tasting, there is an article here
and off flavour descriptions here  and here


----------



## milligan (16/12/08)

Good point about the bottle bombs. Didn't think of that so a win finally with this brew.

Thanks for the links. I had read the first one and found it helpful but hadn't found the other 2. 

I am chilling another bottle for a few days/week and will try again. 

Otherwise as you suggest, Butters, time may help. I shall store these in a deep dark cavern to be found by people of the future. Hopefully that will be enough time


----------



## milligan (16/12/08)

Just tried a little more of this brew and found that the celery taste had gone/been covered up by chilling. 

A reading of the flavour identification notes tells me that maybe this beer is alright. I could not identify any of the tastes and smells suggested. I think it may just be more bitter than I am used to (xxxx gold drinker mostly). Reminds me a little of drinking a coopers stout. That sort of residual taste on the back of the tongue that lingers. Is that bitterness????

At this stage I cant see me sinking a dozen of these in one sitting but that is a good thing. 

I may also be missing some of the other flavours given the high fermentation temps, aeration of the wort during fermentation, etc, that this brew endured.


----------



## buttersd70 (16/12/08)

milligan said:


> That sort of residual taste on the back of the tongue that lingers. Is that bitterness????



Probably. Bitterness is best percieved on the back of the tongue. Given more time in the bottle it will smooth out. I'd suggest that you put a  proportion of the batch aside and let it age a bit, so you can get a comparison of how time effects the flavour. That, to me, is one of the better education tools a new brewer has at their disposal....staggered tastings of their early batches.


----------



## milligan (14/1/09)

I thought I should update this with my tasting notes.

It has been in the bottle for 60 days or so. This has mostly done away with the "celery" taste, although it does appear in the odd bottle. This one is darkish, pours with a small head which dissapears pretty quick. It is more bitter than I am used to (ex-megaswill drinker) and the aftertaste is pretty heavy, in that you wouldn't drink more than 2 tallies of this stuff. 

So for my first attempt back I will be able to drink most of these which I would class as a success.


----------



## raven19 (14/1/09)

milligan said:


> I thought I should update this with my tasting notes.
> 
> It has been in the bottle for 60 days or so. This has mostly done away with the "celery" taste, although it does appear in the odd bottle. This one is darkish, pours with a small head which dissapears pretty quick. It is more bitter than I am used to (ex-megaswill drinker) and the aftertaste is pretty heavy, in that you wouldn't drink more than 2 tallies of this stuff.
> 
> So for my first attempt back I will be able to drink most of these which I would class as a success.



Great to hear. Can I suggest keeping a sixpack to the side for future sampling, to see how it goes over time.

Now get to it and make some more beer!!!


----------



## shayne (14/1/09)

i'm glad to hear your stuff worked out in the end milligan. have a batch down now at 9 days that seems slow (coopers canadian blonde) - though it is at 1012, and has been for two days. all my others dropped like a sack of s**T down to 1010 or under, but this one we managed to keep at a decent temp (~23 as opposed to ~27) and i was nervous it wasn't going to finish. we've chosen to leave it another 2 days or so, even though this chews into our stock rotation time (we have 2 ferm. between 2 of us, but a third sounds like a must) but most of what we've done so far have a very bitter/sour taste even after 3+ weeks in the bottle (some as short as 4 days in the ferment, though they were down to 1008) so i'm willing to punt that if we wait a bit longer we'll be rewarded in the end.


----------

