# What happened to Wide Eyed And Legless?



## krz (5/5/22)

I was brewing regularly a few years ago, then Covid hit and I ended up moving houses, so havent been on this site since then.
Just resurrected the gear and started again, just wondering where WEAL has gone. No recent posts.
He may have ruffled a few feathers, but he certainly knew his stuff when it came to brewing. I miss him


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## CapnClunks (5/5/22)

Haha he is kinda famous like MHB, I'm new so I don't know, but Hb seems to be a very closed circle


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## blacktop™ (6/5/22)

That bloke annoyed me.
Always had to drag the whole keg king/land bullshit into every thread.


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## yankinoz (6/5/22)

He grew legs and now squints.


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## philrob (6/5/22)

Don't know what happened.
Made up his own mind not to post any further so far.
Certainly nothing to do with admin/mod.


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## Cian Doyle (6/5/22)

I certainly picked up a lot of excellent tips and advice off WEAL, yes he did ruffle a few feathers, but at least he kept this forum active, and he did predict this forum would become a platform for Keg Land. Which it has.


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## Reg Holt (9/5/22)

krz said:


> I was brewing regularly a few years ago, then Covid hit and I ended up moving houses, so havent been on this site since then.
> Just resurrected the gear and started again, just wondering where WEAL has gone. No recent posts.
> He may have ruffled a few feathers, but he certainly knew his stuff when it came to brewing. I miss him



I think if you look at the amount of posts appearing on AHB it is self explanatory, 6 posts in total in the last 24 hours. I was a supporting member on this forum I believe WEAL was too. 

This forum is abysmal, poor administration and poor moderating, neither of which parties has any interest in the future of AHB, as long as they can delete posts, lock threads and bar members.
Has WEAL been barred, I don't know but with these moderators I wouldn't be surprised, the only time they put a post up is when ink bird has a give away.
There was the bulk buys he used to organise for grain and the spunding valves, not just on this forum but AUSSIE CRAFT BREWING at the same time with any excess money going to some children's charity.

I expect to hear, "well everyone is now on Facebook", those who think that should look at the sister forums in USA and UK different administrators and moderators they are flying, like this one used to do.
Sad times.


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## philrob (9/5/22)

As I said, nothing to do with moderating.
I've not deleted any posts, other than an offensive one in the jokes thread.


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## GrumpyPaul (9/5/22)

Reg Holt said:


> I think if you look at the amount of posts appearing on AHB it is self explanatory, 6 posts in total in the last 24 hours. .....
> 
> 
> I expect to hear, "well everyone is now on Facebook", ......
> ...



Three comments from me....


Can you really blame the moderation when there is only 6 posts in 24 hours? You can hardly moderate (good or bad) if there is nothing to moderate. The other forum is just the same - virtually no activity there either, and that's a completely different set of mods and admins. Is the demise of forums an Aussie thing?
I feel like the standard of knowledge on FB is so much lower than here....I find myself cringing at some of the advice that is given. Feels like anyone that has brewed a batch considers themselves "experienced" on FB. At least on here you can recognise the experienced posters (like MHB etc) pretty easily. I am yet to see much on any of the FB brewing groups that holds a candle to either forum
Agreed... Sad times indeed.


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## Reg Holt (9/5/22)

GrumpyPaul said:


> Three comments from me....
> 
> 
> Can you really blame the moderation when there is only 6 posts in 24 hours? You can hardly moderate (good or bad) if there is nothing to moderate. The other forum is just the same - virtually no activity there either, and that's a completely different set of mods and admins. Is the demise of forums an Aussie thing?
> ...


You're missing the point, the forum was going fine until 2 years ago when heavy handed moderating came in. Grmblz is another one with a wealth of information hardly posts on here now, how many threads did he get locked down or deleted. Same as a lot of us who don't post on here regularly. 

The whole idea of a forum is for discourse between members and attract members to partake. To use a WEAL phrase, "put bums on seats", now members are barely coming through the bloody door!
Just because a mod doesn't like what is being said doesn't give them the right to lock the thread or delete the posts. 
How many Bulk Buys are there now? There aren't enough on board to make it worthwhile. Bulk Buys were another way of getting members involved and posting.

The other forum was always going to be a failure because there wasn't the characters on there to liven it up. That forum is capable of sending a glass eye to sleep, now this one is following suit. Check out Home Brew Forum UK and Homebrew Talk USA, the mods get involved in posting, they have more get up and go. They don't sit on their hands waiting for a post they don't like to pop up so they can delete it.


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## clickeral (9/5/22)

GrumpyPaul said:


> Three comments from me....
> 
> 
> Can you really blame the moderation when there is only 6 posts in 24 hours? You can hardly moderate (good or bad) if there is nothing to moderate. The other forum is just the same - virtually no activity there either, and that's a completely different set of mods and admins. Is the demise of forums an Aussie thing?
> ...



I refuse to post on FB, as the amount of muppets who don't listen or jump down on anyone who doesn't align with how they think is nuts. Its also impossible to find previous information so the amount of times the same question gets asked is frustrating.

Honestly some of the information I have gained from users off various sites has made me a better brewer, I like to think that I take on board what people say however and am willing to accept that I am wrong  

I am not on here that much these days because there is no new content, I now and then refresh myself on something I haven't done in awhile.

Even the pub is empty

I did another cream ale the other day and decided to not cook the polenta I used as I was being lazy, didn't post anything on here for others to learn as it seemed pointless (I was 14 points down!)


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## GrumpyPaul (10/5/22)

Reg Holt said:


> You're missing the point, the forum was going fine until 2 years ago



I think the issues go way back beyond 2 years ago when the "big forum split" of 2018 happened. Before then this place was loaded with characters and endless banter. People came on for the sense of community and fun as much as they did the knowledge. Most of the characters (ie Cock, Yob etc) of the forum were lost then.

As far as the loss of knowledge on this forum - you only have to look at the list of top posters and most of them are gone. MHB is about the only one left - the likes of Manticle, Batz, Bribie G etc all had a wealth of knowledge that was on a par with MHB's - back in those days you could get some really great technical discussions happening.

What I think the moderation in the past 2 years or so has done (including my 12 months or so in the moderation chair) was curtail the sponsor bickering. The unfortunate effect of that - and I will happily accept some blame for it - is the loss of one side of the fence on that. Not that I miss the shit fights but I regret that the forum doesnt hear anything about one companies products any more.


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## CapnClunks (10/5/22)

clickeral said:


> I refuse to post on FB, as the amount of muppets who don't listen or jump down on anyone who doesn't align with how they think is nuts. Its also impossible to find previous information so the amount of times the same question gets asked is frustrating.
> 
> Honestly some of the information I have gained from users off various sites has made me a better brewer, I like to think that I take on board what people say however and am willing to accept that I am wrong
> 
> ...


Can I see that cream ale recipe? Polenta?


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## Vini2ton (10/5/22)

Did not WEAL have health issues? Things can sometimes go south at a rate of knots. His political comments infuriated me but I loved his posts. People come and go, they always will. But seriously, if I read another post about misreading of refractometers, I'll spew up. I wonder what happened to WEAL?


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## Reg Holt (10/5/22)

GrumpyPaul said:


> I think the issues go way back beyond 2 years ago when the "big forum split" of 2018 happened. Before then this place was loaded with characters and endless banter. People came on for the sense of community and fun as much as they did the knowledge. Most of the characters (ie Cock, Yob etc) of the forum were lost then.
> 
> As far as the loss of knowledge on this forum - you only have to look at the list of top posters and most of them are gone. MHB is about the only one left - the likes of Manticle, Batz, Bribie G etc all had a wealth of knowledge that was on a par with MHB's - back in those days you could get some really great technical discussions happening.
> 
> What I think the moderation in the past 2 years or so has done (including my 12 months or so in the moderation chair) was curtail the sponsor bickering. The unfortunate effect of that - and I will happily accept some blame for it - is the loss of one side of the fence on that. Not that I miss the shit fights but I regret that the forum doesnt hear anything about one companies products any more.


I agree 2018 was a set back I was an innocent casualty and got barred with quite a few other members and had to rejoin again. To which I may add yourself and Warra AKA philrob played an active part in trying to close down this forum as Brad had offered an alternative forum which was going to be the forum to end all forums. And like sheep most of the members followed. But since then with members like WEAL and MHB along with a few others this forum got going again. By 2020 the posts on this forum was out stripping the posts on Australian Craft Brewer, which is another dead in the water Aussie forum.
So the demise of AHB and *** are down to one mans ego.
But the biggest blow to this forum was the appointment of 2 moderators, who aren't leaders, but part of Brads flock of sheep!

I would love to see this forum become a Phoenix, but the way it is being run at the moment I can't see it happening.
Before the harsh moderating came into play there were healthy discussions on here, now nothing. Most of the discussions are on Keg Land Questions and Answers, and if either of you moderators took the time to look at the posting history of some of those posting on that thread it sticks out like dogs balls some of the the posters are either100% or close to it for every post being on Keg Land. The tail is now wagging the dog.

One other thing 4 weeks ago was my last post, how come a thread from the crypt (5 years old) was answered by a forum member who hasn't been seen for 2 years and may even be dead. Was replied to in an American vernacular when the poster is a fair dinkum Aussie? (Weizguy)


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## wide eyed and legless (10/5/22)

krz said:


> I was brewing regularly a few years ago, then Covid hit and I ended up moving houses, so havent been on this site since then.
> Just resurrected the gear and started again, just wondering where WEAL has gone. No recent posts.
> He may have ruffled a few feathers, but he certainly knew his stuff when it came to brewing. I miss him


Aw I miss you too.


blacktop™ said:


> That bloke annoyed me.
> Always had to drag the whole keg king/land bullshit into every thread.


If you took the time to see who started the Keg King/Keg Land bullshit go back to its origin on the thread Keg Land.com.au whata you got thread. Easy to shoot crows on a fence when they can't reply back. 


Vini2ton said:


> Did not WEAL have health issues? Things can sometimes go south at a rate of knots. His political comments infuriated me but I loved his posts. People come and go, they always will. But seriously, if I read another post about misreading of refractometers, I'll spew up. I wonder what happened to WEAL?


Still alive and kicking, as for politics, we can't all be on the winning side, wouldn't be a democracy otherwise.


philrob said:


> As I said, nothing to do with moderating.
> I've not deleted any posts, other than an offensive one in the jokes thread.


I remember you putting up an offensive joke a few years ago. The one about a dog having sex with a woman. The woman taking the dog to the vets to have its nails clipped. Probably still there in the jokes section. How offensive is that with a woman administrator?

I agree with you Reg. I would love to see this forum rise from the ashes. It can with the right leadership. The members are the important ones not the advertisers, get a healthy forum with members being able to discuss products without getting posts deleted.


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## philrob (10/5/22)

OK, you have your views, some of which are incorrect.
Warra is banned on this site. Hasn't been seen for 5 years or so. 
As a moderator, I don't have any authority to ban members, nor have I ever done so. 99% of what I do is to approve new members and their posts, and to kill obvious spam. I have nothing to do with Brad, and I'm not his lackey now, nor have I ever been. I've never tried to sabotage this forum or the other one. No point. Everyone is entitled to run a forum if they wish.
I'm over and out on this discussion.
I'm in the process of moving to Brisbane. Maybe we'll have a beer or two one day.
Cheers and beers.


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## GrumpyPaul (10/5/22)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Aw I miss you too.
> 
> Still alive and kicking...



Awww... There he is.

@wide eyed and legless who would have thought you would be missed so much.

Nice to see you again.


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## wide eyed and legless (10/5/22)

GrumpyPaul said:


> Awww... There he is.
> 
> @wide eyed and legless who would have thought you would be missed so much.
> 
> Nice to see you again.


 Forever the rebel cant resist having a dig at authority. How is your daughter still raising money for cancer?


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## GrumpyPaul (10/5/22)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Forever the rebel cant resist having a dig at authority. How is your daughter still raising money for cancer?


Still doing things like the morning teas etc.... But hasn't shaved her head again.


@Reg Holt .... I'm not a mod, haven't been for a while.

Gave it away when I started getting abusive messages from a forum member to my personal phone because they didn't like moderation.

It's just an internet forum....I don't care enough to put up with that sort of crap.

I'm just here for the beer now.


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## clickeral (10/5/22)

CapnClunks said:


> Can I see that cream ale recipe? Polenta?









This batch was 0.5kg of corn grits and 1kg of instant polenta from the supermarket (make sure you cook it first) I cooked the corn grits as per normal and they converted for me.

Have previously used non instant polenta (which I did a full cereal mash with) last time I brewed this I used ale malt and munich malt as thats what I had on hand 
Can also use cheap corn flakes

Next time I make it ill probably just use the flaked maize I have a 25kg bag of

Any noble hop works, and you could also use an american hop if you want to be more to style

Because I didn't get the conversion from the polenta due to not cooking it I ended up boiling it for an extra hour but still managed to get 25L and only 4-5 points off, etc

Also ended up using Kolsch yeast as I realized I was out of us-05 (more now ordered)

I was dialing in some system changes and redoing my mill setup (changing to one fluted and one knurled roller) so still dialing in gap

Note I got the polenta really cheap, Aldi cornflakes work out to be more per kg then buying a 25kg bag of flaked maize (I use corn in a few things) Woolworths currently has no homebrand in stock anywhere, haven't checked Coles. 

$3.598 per kg for a 25kg bag at retail 
$3.85 per kg for Woolworths cornflakes (700g for 2.7)
$4 per kg for Coles cornflakes (475g for 1.9)
$6.5 per kg for instant polenta (I paid $2 per kg at the time)


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## CapnClunks (10/5/22)

clickeral said:


> View attachment 122067
> 
> 
> This batch was 0.5kg of corn grits and 1kg of instant polenta from the supermarket (make sure you cook it first) I cooked the corn grits as per normal and they converted for me.
> ...


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## CapnClunks (10/5/22)

Would that amount of corn possibility result in a stuck sparge reason I ask is I'm doing a oat stout soon only 10% of bill but should I worry or no?


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## CapnClunks (10/5/22)

clickeral said:


> View attachment 122067
> 
> 
> This batch was 0.5kg of corn grits and 1kg of instant polenta from the supermarket (make sure you cook it first) I cooked the corn grits as per normal and they converted for me.
> ...


Seems interesting was it smooth


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## clickeral (10/5/22)

CapnClunks said:


> Would that amount of corn possibility result in a stuck sparge reason I ask is I'm doing a oat stout soon only 10% of bill but should I worry or no?



I didn't have an issue either time, ive got a 50L cheeky peak nano with there good false bottom. Have mashed 7.5kg of corn before without a stuck sparge (1.9kg wheat 2kg malt) I did use some rice hulls for this however as safety

Depends on the system, I also recirculate without issue. I do run a coarser crush however and from memory this was a 25L mash water volume

I liked it, and it got good feedback from the last case swap I went too


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## Ballaratguy (11/5/22)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Aw I miss you too.
> 
> If you took the time to see who started the Keg King/Keg Land bullshit go back to its origin on the thread Keg Land.com.au whata you got thread. Easy to shoot crows on a fence when they can't reply back.
> 
> ...


Hey WEAL would you mind if I PM you!


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## Eddy Monsoon (12/5/22)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Easy to shoot crows on a fence when they can't reply back.



true that


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## MHB (12/5/22)

When using a significant amount of adjunct its always a good idea to boil it before mashing it.
Flaked ingredients are supposed to be gelatinised during manufacture; this might be true for brewing ingredients but probably isn’t for supermarket adjuncts. One other factor to consider is that the features we want in brewing ingredients are often the exact opposite of what we want in baking/cooking/breakfast products. Both may be very good at what they are intended for and crap at other applications.

If you are going to boil your adjunct it’s pretty standard practice to add 10% of the weight of adjunct as milled malt (i.e. to 1kg of adjunct add 100g of malt).
Mix the adjunct and malt with around 3-5 times its own mass of cold water
Heat slowly to mashing temperatures (60-70oC) allow to rest for 10 minutes or so then heat to a boil.
I put my adjunct in a pasta pot with a stainless mesh spacer under it, set stove to low; it heats at less than 0.5oC/minute so there is no need to rest at mash temps.
By starting cool and heating slowly enough you will go through all the activity ranges for all the enzymes, including a bunch that don’t normally get to play.
This is from a brewing text book




Mark


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## awfulknauful (13/5/22)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Aw I miss you too.
> 
> If you took the time to see who started the Keg King/Keg Land bullshit go back to its origin on the thread Keg Land.com.au whata you got thread. Easy to shoot crows on a fence when they can't reply back.
> 
> ...


So WEAL are you staying or just passing through?


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## Grmblz (14/5/22)

philrob said:


> As I said, nothing to do with moderating.
> I've not deleted any posts, other than an offensive one in the jokes thread.


Yer full of shit! No doubt you will delete this post, like my others, but the flaw in the system is anyone following this thread will get this post anyway.


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## Eddy Monsoon (14/5/22)

_hmmmm_hmmmm

Posting on homebrew forum late on Saturday night

I wonder.....


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## Grmblz (14/5/22)

9.0pm on a Saturday night may be late for you, however as a "supporting" member take your axe to another grinder.


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## Eddy Monsoon (15/5/22)

Grmblz said:


> 9.0pm on a Saturday night may be late for you, however as a "supporting" member take your axe to another grinder.


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## Barleycorn Brewer (15/5/22)

I remember WEAL before I went away, and Ducati boy Stu, where is he? It was entertaining when those two went head to head.


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## philrob (15/5/22)

Haven't seen Ducati for ages, on any forum.


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## Barleycorn Brewer (16/5/22)

philrob said:


> Haven't seen Ducati for ages, on any forum.


When you say any forum, is there more than one?


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## philrob (16/5/22)

You can figure out whether there is one or more. 
I've been a member of scale model building forums for years too.


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## TheCraft (16/5/22)

Barleycorn Brewer said:


> I remember WEAL before I went away, and Ducati boy Stu, where is he? It was entertaining when those two went head to head.



I come from the “over the bridge” of Grain and Grape customer, going back quite a few years now - and I recall the early iterations of Keg King coming from some kind of cleaning products company morphing into a home brewshop/design/importer. There were always rumours of discontent and nastiness surrounding Keg King and certainly the old thread wars here 3 years ago brought that all out into the open. Indeed, Keg King has been a bit of an industry pariah ever since and that has been shown in the way they conduct themselves - they have been known to get quite nasty even to loyal customers who dare utter the words Keg Land within earshot of those few still loyal to Keg King.

Over in the west, the war between KK and KL is somewhat amusing to watch from afar, and the dirty wars continue, only now coming to a bit of a conclusion. As back in 2018 as some commented, we may only have “one big K” left soon and it doesn’t take too much to figure out which is going to go on growing and which is going to either downsize or close…. it’s as simple as who has a warehouse of unwanted brewing systems and who cannot keep up with demand / who has by far the bigger cut of social media exposure…. and who is relying on “dictatorships” to keep their product mentions going.

What are the “dirty wars” and what has some of members of forums and groups out there all upset? Well the KK/KL wars are spilling onto the streets - it started about 2 months ago with back chatter of customers, especially of Keg Land, being “attacked” by Keg King employees on forums and social media to the extent they had posts deleted or membership cancelled for no apparent reason. It’s only in the past few days hanging around here and noticing some “famous faces” has it caused a few of us to discuss what on earth is going on - and then I heard a few stories and proof of what really is going on.

Now I don’t mind some corporate argy-bargy, some friendly fire and smaller home-brew shops grumbling back in 2018 of having to adjust to the realities of “$100 co2 bottles and $50 refills…. “ but what if things get really, really nasty? How does one “trap a corporate troller” in 2022 with their pants down?

Enter the (often called by even current followers) dictatorship of Home Brewing Australia (no - not AHB!) Yes sure, they allow the occasional KL puff piece by some of the big social media identities out there but if you look closer at many posts there seems to be an odd number of KK regulators, spunders, Apollos….. and members with “Keg King” in their names. As they say about birds… a group of us started to think is this a Keg King hive, _a brew industry Borg???_

For the non-trekkies - Borg - Wikipedia

But how to draw them out? Easy - _Keg King bait._ KK have had a hard time recently with some not too successful product - plastic disposable kegs, spunds that clog easily with Kveik, and of course the “switch” from Guten to Grainfather (ouch!). Self caused problems nothing of Keg Lands fault (ok, the Generation 4 Brewzilla killed Guten). A few innocent posts here and there and out they come…. led by no other than the current Keg King Operations Manager aka look up his name on LinkedIn (and from what we saw, abetted by several Keg King retail staff). The pile on was fast - we suspect Keg King uses some kind of media monitor system to alert them of any mention of their product. In a week we saw 5 members “killed off” in that manner under the help of HBA’s mods - which we suspect are part of the hive.

The accusation every time? These killed off members were Kegland staff; hell one was accused of being Kee himself! Analysing the posts there was no evidence of a direct attack on Keg King product, just a normal observation a typical home brewer would make. However we did notice 3 of the members were members of other ‘books and posters that evidently were KL customers (one of them was a regular KK customer too though - figure that out)?

This is a very sad state of affairs and goes to show Keg King staff are openly attacking home brewers out there! And there are forums and ‘books out there taking sides.

We’ve kept the proof (in some instances the mods could not delete the evidence fast enough, but we caught it) - might make a nice story for a newspaper or ACA…. ar least one of those IT blogs that goes after corporate bullies. Of course Facebook is investigating, advising our IT expert that ‘book is under investigation regardless (there was a heap of discontent a few weeks ago spinning around).

I wonder what Aran B. thinks? Can’t be good for sales 🫢


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## Barleycorn Brewer (17/5/22)

TheCraft said:


> I come from the “over the bridge” of Grain and Grape customer, going back quite a few years now - and I recall the early iterations of Keg King coming from some kind of cleaning products company morphing into a home brewshop/design/importer. There were always rumours of discontent and nastiness surrounding Keg King and certainly the old thread wars here 3 years ago brought that all out into the open. Indeed, Keg King has been a bit of an industry pariah ever since and that has been shown in the way they conduct themselves - they have been known to get quite nasty even to loyal customers who dare utter the words Keg Land within earshot of those few still loyal to Keg King.
> 
> Over in the west, the war between KK and KL is somewhat amusing to watch from afar, and the dirty wars continue, only now coming to a bit of a conclusion. As back in 2018 as some commented, we may only have “one big K” left soon and it doesn’t take too much to figure out which is going to go on growing and which is going to either downsize or close…. it’s as simple as who has a warehouse of unwanted brewing systems and who cannot keep up with demand / who has by far the bigger cut of social media exposure…. and who is relying on “dictatorships” to keep their product mentions going.
> 
> ...


Well thanks for that, sorry, not what I came on this forum for. I certainly won't be back.


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## Dave70 (17/5/22)

Reg Holt said:


> The other forum was always going to be a failure because there wasn't the characters on there to liven it up. That forum is capable of sending a glass eye to sleep, now this one is following suit.



You can only 'liven things up' within the boundaries of what other users as well as the mods deem acceptable. And that threshold seems to be narrowing by the moment. 
You cant lay the entirety of the blame squarely at the feet of mods or admin - the members get the forum they deserve, and to a major degree, set the code for what fly's behavior wise. 

Banter, sometimes controversial and rowdy plays a _huge _role, always has. Show me any member who didn't have a hearty gut laugh, even guiltily, at the notorious 'Clock' thread for example. Would that fly today? Not a ******* chance would be my guess.


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## Reg Holt (17/5/22)

Dave70 said:


> You can only 'liven things up' within the boundaries of what other users as well as the mods deem acceptable. And that threshold seems to be narrowing by the moment.
> You cant lay the entirety of the blame squarely at the feet of mods or admin - the members get the forum they deserve, and to a major degree, set the code for what fly's behavior wise.
> 
> Banter, sometimes controversial and rowdy plays a _huge _role, always has. Show me any member who didn't have a hearty gut laugh, even guiltily, at the notorious 'Clock' thread for example. Would that fly today? Not a ******* chance would be my guess.


That was a cracker, there was a lot of threads non brewing related which got a laugh. That is something that is missing on both forums.



TheCraft said:


> I come from the “over the bridge” of Grain and Grape customer, going back quite a few years now - and I recall the early iterations of Keg King coming from some kind of cleaning products company morphing into a home brewshop/design/importer. There were always rumours of discontent and nastiness surrounding Keg King and certainly the old thread wars here 3 years ago brought that all out into the open. Indeed, Keg King has been a bit of an industry pariah ever since and that has been shown in the way they conduct themselves - they have been known to get quite nasty even to loyal customers who dare utter the words Keg Land within earshot of those few still loyal to Keg King.
> 
> Over in the west, the war between KK and KL is somewhat amusing to watch from afar, and the dirty wars continue, only now coming to a bit of a conclusion. As back in 2018 as some commented, we may only have “one big K” left soon and it doesn’t take too much to figure out which is going to go on growing and which is going to either downsize or close…. it’s as simple as who has a warehouse of unwanted brewing systems and who cannot keep up with demand / who has by far the bigger cut of social media exposure…. and who is relying on “dictatorships” to keep their product mentions going.
> 
> ...


So Ollie, you're back with yet another name, I guess you don't subscribe to 'Brews in the News' or if you do you are smarting at missing out on the Bevie distributorship deal for Europe and the UK which Keg Land wanted and was bypassed for Keg King. 
I think the main reason was because they, KK, have PET fermenters which stays in tact when they are being used.

I thought there was a rule about one supplier calling out another suppliers products or is that a one way street.

Looking at post number 6 in this thread just about sums it up.


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## An Ankoù (17/5/22)

Fascinating thread. As an outsider, living in France and joining relatively recently, I know nothing of keg wars and don't really need to. I do know that we had a similar bust up on the UK site about 18 months ago and lost some of our most knowledgeable members who've not been seen since, together with a whole load of newbies who were wondering what they'd got themselves into. There's something weird about forum administrators, I suppose we need to look into the psychology of why they choose to do it! 
Banter and camaraderie is what makes a good forum as well as exchange of know-how and ideas. During the covid years when we were all locked down, going to the forum for a chat about anything was like going to the pub. I felt I had mates I've never seen and don't even know their real names so when they stop "coming to the pub" because the metaphorical landlord has pisssed them off, they are sorely missed. 
But things recover. New faces appear, new banter starts up. I tread carefully here because I'm not 100% sure of the culture and what might offend people, but on my home turf I'm sure I'm on half the members' ignore list and wouldn't have it any other way. 
I'm on a couple of other UK forums. One's tiny but we have a great time there. The other seems to attract a lot of old timers and proper know all's, book-writers even. Never found much friendship there, a very cliquey bunch some of whom I'm sure are clinically insane. 
This is a good forum in my opinion, friendly people and some very interesting subjects.


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## philrob (17/5/22)

Nothing has been deleted or edited on here since the KK/KL thing died down, and that was after action by admin, not moderators. In the last 12 months at least the only thing I've deleted was a post in the jokes section which was considered to be inappropriate.
I'm not a client of or user of products of either KL or KK, nor am I local from Melbourne.
I've never really studied what it was all about, nor do I really want to know, and it is irrelevant now as far as I'm concerned. I had enough argy bargy with cranky lawyers and their clients while I was still working. I don't need it now I'm retired.


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## Reg Holt (17/5/22)

philrob said:


> Nothing has been deleted or edited on here since the KK/KL thing died down, and that was after action by admin, not moderators. In the last 12 months at least the only thing I've deleted was a post in the jokes section which was considered to be inappropriate.
> I'm not a client of or user of products of either KL or KK, nor am I local from Melbourne.
> I've never really studied what it was all about, nor do I really want to know, and it is irrelevant now as far as I'm concerned. I had enough argy bargy with cranky lawyers and their clients while I was still working. I don't need it now I'm retired.


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## damoninja (17/5/22)

I just want forum that rates like forum.


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## Hatchy (17/5/22)

TheCraft said:


> I come from the “over the bridge” of Grain and Grape customer, going back quite a few years now - and I recall the early iterations of Keg King coming from some kind of cleaning products company morphing into a home brewshop/design/importer. There were always rumours of discontent and nastiness surrounding Keg King and certainly the old thread wars here 3 years ago brought that all out into the open. Indeed, Keg King has been a bit of an industry pariah ever since and that has been shown in the way they conduct themselves - they have been known to get quite nasty even to loyal customers who dare utter the words Keg Land within earshot of those few still loyal to Keg King.
> 
> Over in the west, the war between KK and KL is somewhat amusing to watch from afar, and the dirty wars continue, only now coming to a bit of a conclusion. As back in 2018 as some commented, we may only have “one big K” left soon and it doesn’t take too much to figure out which is going to go on growing and which is going to either downsize or close…. it’s as simple as who has a warehouse of unwanted brewing systems and who cannot keep up with demand / who has by far the bigger cut of social media exposure…. and who is relying on “dictatorships” to keep their product mentions going.
> 
> ...



At the risk of letting the truth get in the way of your rambling, longwinded, and not particularly interesting story, you didn't get booted for being a KL employee - you got booted because you were sent a message asking if you were a KL employee and didn't reply. Maybe your IT expert can show you how to check your messages?

The mods on there don't give a toss who people shop with - personally I've been pretty vocal about the complete lack of customer service I've had from KK, and the sensational customer service I've had from KL, so to suggest that the mods on that Facebook group are pro or anti either shop looks pretty dumb.

Enjoy your 15 minutes of fame on ACA, and thank you for making me aware that show still exists to remind me not to put on free to air TV.


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## GrumpyPaul (17/5/22)

TheCraft said:


> I come from the “over the bridge” of Grain and Grape customer, going back quite a few years now - and I recall the early iterations of Keg King coming from some kind of cleaning products company morphing into a home brewshop/design/importer. There were always rumours of discontent and nastiness surrounding Keg King and certainly the old thread wars here 3 years ago brought that all out into the open. Indeed, Keg King has been a bit of an industry pariah ever since and that has been shown in the way they conduct themselves - they have been known to get quite nasty even to loyal customers who dare utter the words Keg Land within earshot of those few still loyal to Keg King.
> 
> Over in the west, the war between KK and KL is somewhat amusing to watch from afar, and the dirty wars continue, only now coming to a bit of a conclusion. As back in 2018 as some commented, we may only have “one big K” left soon and it doesn’t take too much to figure out which is going to go on growing and which is going to either downsize or close…. it’s as simple as who has a warehouse of unwanted brewing systems and who cannot keep up with demand / who has by far the bigger cut of social media exposure…. and who is relying on “dictatorships” to keep their product mentions going.
> 
> ...



Is it just me.... Does anyone understand much of that post???


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## Reg Holt (17/5/22)

damoninja said:


> I just want forum that rates like forum.


It won't be a forum if it is manipulated by


damoninja said:


> I just want forum that rates like forum.


I think that most forum members want a forum that isn't being run by advertisers. They have there own niche to spruik in without setting up ghost accounts to take over the forum.
Going to be interesting to see what CraftMan who has just joined brings to the table. I seem to recall another KL employee called CraftMan being booted off Facebook just recently.


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## Reg Holt (17/5/22)

GrumpyPaul said:


> Is it just me.... Does anyone understand much of that post???


Got to read between the lines GP his posts under the moniker of Scarlet Cadaver reads the same.
I think he may have forgot his login password. Wanker.


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## Reg Holt (17/5/22)

Not saying his password was 'Wanker' but it would have been apt.


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## Cian Doyle (17/5/22)

philrob said:


> Nothing has been deleted or edited on here since the KK/KL thing died down, and that was after action by admin, not moderators. In the last 12 months at least the only thing I've deleted was a post in the jokes section which was considered to be inappropriate.
> I'm not a client of or user of products of either KL or KK, nor am I local from Melbourne.
> I've never really studied what it was all about, nor do I really want to know, and it is irrelevant now as far as I'm concerned. I had enough argy bargy with cranky lawyers and their clients while I was still working. I don't need it now I'm retired.


I think philrob its time to put on the big boys pants and delete TheCraft's post. Get out of retirement mode and stop KL taking over the forum.


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## Siborg (19/5/22)

TheCraft said:


> I come from the “over the bridge” of Grain and Grape customer, going back quite a few years now - and I recall the early iterations of Keg King coming from some kind of cleaning products company morphing into a home brewshop/design/importer. There were always rumours of discontent and nastiness surrounding Keg King and certainly the old thread wars here 3 years ago brought that all out into the open. Indeed, Keg King has been a bit of an industry pariah ever since and that has been shown in the way they conduct themselves - they have been known to get quite nasty even to loyal customers who dare utter the words Keg Land within earshot of those few still loyal to Keg King.
> 
> Over in the west, the war between KK and KL is somewhat amusing to watch from afar, and the dirty wars continue, only now coming to a bit of a conclusion. As back in 2018 as some commented, we may only have “one big K” left soon and it doesn’t take too much to figure out which is going to go on growing and which is going to either downsize or close…. it’s as simple as who has a warehouse of unwanted brewing systems and who cannot keep up with demand / who has by far the bigger cut of social media exposure…. and who is relying on “dictatorships” to keep their product mentions going.
> 
> ...


Resistance is futile


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## Nullnvoid (19/5/22)

Gees you go away for a few months....are we back in lockdown? These type of threads were more prominent when everyone was stuck at home with no one to love them.


GrumpyPaul said:


> Is it just me.... Does anyone understand much of that post???


Read it several times. Can't work out who he is, what he is trying to say, or whose side he is on. LOL


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## GrumpyPaul (20/5/22)

Nullnvoid said:


> Gees you go away for a few months....are we back in lockdown? These type of threads were more prominent when everyone was stuck at home with no one to love them.
> 
> Read it several times. Can't work out who he is, what he is trying to say, or whose side he is on. LOL



I still love you @Nullnvoid


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## krz (17/6/22)

Sorry for delay, thought I'd have a look if anyone responded since my original post.
Hahahah - wars star again <- this = good, promotes discussion.

WEAL - thank you for responding. Your obviously monitoring.
Maybe some of us can make a few posts that are worth responding on.
Happy to see some other familiar names contributing.


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## yankinoz (18/6/22)

Hasn't anyone tried a new hop lately, brewed a batch that tastes like brussels sprouts, devised a recipe that defies BJCP classification? I find the occasional acrimony hard to understand, since I come from America, the exceptional land where everyone lives in blissful harmony and nary a discouraging word is ere spoken (Let's see what that sentence draws).


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## MHB (18/6/22)

ROFL
Mark


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## Grmblz (18/6/22)

European descendants only, states, helps the bliss.
It would truly be the land of milk and honey were it not for the "JQ"  
Apparently there's dissent as to which European ancestry actually qualifies.


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