# Furphy Clone



## kunfaced (8/10/15)

My brother asked if I could attempt something similar to Furphy because he loves it so much. I know it's cheap as chips to buy but this could be the gateway into getting him crafting himself. He's a microbiologist with a plant fetish, and has started growing his own hops from seed. He's got equipment for yeast activities too, soo it's important for my sake to get this down good. :lol:

http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/919038/furphy-clone

That's where I'm starting. I plan to chuck a brew down on Saturday, so if any of you have some ideas lets hear them. 

Cheers


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## desitter (8/10/15)

Can't offer much assistance, as it's not really something I've been interested in brewing myself, and only had a pint of the stuff to see what it is like (very typical C.U.B in character if I remember correctly). But I do have an article from 'The weekly review' June 25 - July 1 2015 about the beer in front of me. Just re-reading it now, a lot of fluff; not much for the homebrewer. They do mention Vic Secret and Topaz (as you have listed in your recipe) as the hop varieties used, as well as the use of a hop-back. The beer is meant to be inspired by Kölsch, so that explains the yeast. They mention the use of Vienna malt sourced from Barrett-Burston as well, so maybe something to add.

While giving a 101 of brewing, the article states that "...The resulting liquid is call wort; this is boiled and transferred into a whirlpool. For Furphy, the hops are added at this stage." This makes it sound like their is no 'boil' additions, but I doubt its all whirlpool hopping, and take the authors familiarity of the process with a grain of salt.

I can transcribe the article here if you think it would help?


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## kunfaced (8/10/15)

hey thanks for that, should be ok on the scribe that was more info than I found. I actually have a Kölsch bottled at the moment, where the only hop additions were post boil, and there were 300g of them. I can sort of see the resemblance in the way the flavours come across so you might be on to something there. I might try and keep the bitterness around the same but move them all to flame out. 

As for yeast, I was thinking of getting some out of their bottles but I wasn't sure if it would be the fermenting yeast or priming yeast. Maybe on a second attempt.

cheers


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## chrisluki (8/10/15)

Hey guys, the beer is definitely designed to be very similar to a Kolsch.

The idea was to create something totally Victorian, only sourcing ingredients locally (Vic Secret & Topaz Hops) and have it not be too far of a step up to craft from Carlton Draught for all of those brainwashed drinkers of that product.

A not too bitter step into the world of craft...i think it does its job nicely. The next beer in the Lion stable (after Tooheys New/Dry, hahn Super Dry and Boags Draught) to try and unseat CD as the main beer in Vic...might be a while until it reaches its goal.


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## kunfaced (8/10/15)

I updated the recipe with the whirlpool only hop additions. Also only had three options for Barret-Burston malts, so subbed in Galaxy Ale as it seems the closest to a Vienna style malt. I've never actually used their malts before, my normal store doesn't stock them.

I've also attempted to contact a brewer at Little Creatures Geelong to see if they would like to have any input. Fingers crossed.


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## super_simian (9/10/15)

Personally, I'd drop the RB. And possibly the wheat? Seems like it'd be a *very* simple grist.


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## Brewman_ (9/10/15)

Clicked the link and the recipe is in lbs and Oz's. Is there a setting to switch to metric? It's probably a silly question. And yes I should be able to convert in my head to Metric...


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## kunfaced (9/10/15)

Brewman_ said:


> Clicked the link and the recipe is in lbs and Oz's. Is there a setting to switch to metric? It's probably a silly question. And yes I should be able to convert in my head to Metric...


here

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/64992-beersmith-cloud-recipes-saving-in-metric/


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## kunfaced (9/10/15)

super_simian said:


> Personally, I'd drop the RB. And possibly the wheat? Seems like it'd be a *very* simple grist.


From all sources I have read Furphy has Barley and Wheat. I adjusted the style of the beer back to kolsch (was set to ordinary bitters) to keep it in the style they stated, but when I'm trying to keep it in the right SRM it needs just a tad of RB to get it there. If I ignore this part of it, do you think it will come out in a similar colour? I've never used galaxy malt before so I can work out what shade it is. I have a brew in front of me which was a smash with vienna malt in it. The colour in it is nice bright orange, and a little too pale for a Furphy. If I chuck wheat in too I'd imagine it would stretch the colour out a bit. 

Other ways I was thinking of darkening it was by collecting a litre or two of wort and boiling it down until the sugars caramelise a tad then add it back to the wort, a longer boil time in general or using the sucrose and cooking it into dark toffee with some citric acid. The only thing I can fault in these is the fact that they will all add a certain extra sweetness to the Furphy, from memory it doesn't really have that taste to it and that is far straying from Kolsch style. Is there any other easier ways of adding colour/no flavour?


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## DU99 (9/10/15)

Midnight wheat. about 1-2%.


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## kunfaced (9/10/15)

DU99 said:


> Midnight wheat. about 1-2%.


I didn't think of that, but the only downside is they say they only use ingredients from victoria. Could I bake the Barrett-Burston wheat malt until it is dark enough to sub in as a midnight? Then I could remove the large quantity of wheat in the recipe and the RB.


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## Brewman_ (9/10/15)

kunfaced said:


> here
> 
> http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/64992-beersmith-cloud-recipes-saving-in-metric/


Ah ha.

Cheers


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## TheWiggman (9/10/15)

There may be some roast barley in there but it's not uncommon for the large brewers to use sinimar / brewer's caramel to adjust colour. With a beer of this ilk I think on the home brew scale having a handful of roast malt is neither here nor there. Other simple alternative is to extend the boil.


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## kunfaced (9/10/15)

TheWiggman said:


> There may be some roast barley in there but it's not uncommon for the large brewers to use sinimar / brewer's caramel to adjust colour. With a beer of this ilk I think on the home brew scale having a handful of roast malt is neither here nor there. Other simple alternative is to extend the boil.


By brewers caramel do you mean something similar to dark candi syrup? If so it sounds like a standard aussy trend, like a majority of CUB beers containing sucrose. I understand the idea behind inverted sucrose, and being able to replicate it with sucrose and acids. If this is what you are talking about I could up the amount of sucrose in it, and pre cook it into some dank toffee. Down some of the other malts. Makes sense, it drops the costs overall, especially on a commercial scale. Most times I've added sucrose to brews, I add it with 15 minutes left in the boil. I'm for the idea that the ph of the wort is sufficient in which to complete the inversion. Food for thought for anyone wanting to bump up the gravity of their wort a few points. Allows for better hop utilization earlier on in the boil too, as per lower gravity. I've never encounter 'off' cider flavours or the like. I even cheated on a munich/Columbus smash by adding in 15% sucrose during the boil. From what I've heard from people it was pretty good.

Sorry for the rant, it just helps me get it out to justify crap. I like the cut of your jib. Thanks for your help everyone, I'll settle on a final recipe by morning and let you know. Happy Friday.


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## manticle (9/10/15)

Brewer's caramel is really just for colour so I wouldn't be making candy syrup or wort reductions to replicate it.
Sinnimar might do it. Longer boil will but it will also change the flavour.

Does it need to be an actual clone (as in identical) or a homage/close to/highly similar?

I reckon get flavour close, then adjust colour if you have to. Might take you more than one attempt too.


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## kunfaced (9/10/15)

I'm trying to get it as close as possilbe becuase I normally only give it a half assed thought and never comes out great. Mostly ok. Trying to get myself to think about beer composition more too.

I found what you meant by brewers caramel. Maybe I could just skip on the colour this time and see how the flavour comes out first.


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## kunfaced (14/10/15)

I heard back from Lion, owners of Little Creatures.




kunfaced said:


> *RE: Enquiry: General Enquiries*
> 
> [SIZE=11pt]Good afternoon Joshua,[/SIZE]
> 
> ...


Still wasn't happy with the recipe I had, but had a couple Furphys on tap the other day at a wedding. I am now sure that the advice of keeping it simple is key for this brew. It isn't as dark as I thought, so the colour should be close with just Galaxy malt. I'll add maybe half a pound of wheat for head retention, but the head on a Furphy is dismal. Flameout hops only. Just not sure on the yeast. I've used wyeast 2565 before and I don't think it quite fits the bill. Has anyone tried the different strains and possible have a recommendation?

cheers


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## super_simian (14/10/15)

kunfaced said:


> Maybe I could just skip on the colour this time and see how the flavour comes out first.


I'd always do it that way round. Chasing a mega-brewery brewed beer for colour is a losing game IMHO; adding ingredients like RB or Midnight wheat, even in very small amounts, will have some influence on the taste. Even brewers caramel changes flavour, although Sinamar claims minimal taste impact.


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## hoppinmad (15/10/15)

I have been asked by work mates to brew up something similar to furphy for the end of year chrissy do so have been contemplating the recipe for a while. I find the beer quite hazy and light in colour, fairly dry tasting with a subtle tropical fruit finish, particularly when fresh.

From what I have read, Vic Secret only gives you fruity character when used in a whirlpool or when dry hopping, so I will probably be using that as a flameout addition at the earliest. Topaz in the boil is supposed to give off tropical fruit characters so I will probably add that at about 20 or 30 mins to get to around the 10IBU mark. Problem is both hops are so high in alpha acids that you can't use them in any significant quantities during the boil if you want to get around the 16-18IBU mark. So my guess would be, for a 21 litre batch about 10g Topaz at 30mins and 30g Vic Secret in the whirlpool. Grain bill perhaps 92% JW Ale malt and 8% flaked wheat. Mashed low.

Never used Wyeast's Kolsch yeasts but will probaby go with 2565.

Will try it out and let you know how close I get


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## fraser_john (15/10/15)

HoppinMad said:


> I have been asked by work mates to brew up something similar to furphy for the end of year chrissy do so have been contemplating the recipe for a while. I find the beer quite hazy and light in colour, fairly dry tasting with a subtle tropical fruit finish, particularly when fresh.
> 
> From what I have read, Vic Secret only gives you fruity character when used in a whirlpool or when dry hopping, so I will probably be using that as a flameout addition at the earliest. Topaz in the boil is supposed to give off tropical fruit characters so I will probably add that at about 20 or 30 mins to get to around the 10IBU mark. Problem is both hops are so high in alpha acids that you can't use them in any significant quantities during the boil if you want to get around the 16-18IBU mark. So my guess would be, for a 21 litre batch about 10g Topaz at 30mins and 30g Vic Secret in the whirlpool. Grain bill perhaps 92% JW Ale malt and 8% flaked wheat. Mashed low.
> 
> ...


Yeah we are lucky in Geelong to have Little Creatures right here and always fresh at their bar, it is my beer of choice when there. Be good to find a decent clone of it.


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## hoppinmad (1/11/15)

Ok so made my 1st attempt at a furphy clone today. I changed my recipe a little based on a more "judgemental" tasting session and came up with the following:

93% JW Pils
5% JW Vienna
2% Caramunich II

now the Cara II was made simply as a colouring addition so whilst this is obviously not going to be in their recipe I find it unlikely that it will have any impact on flavour

My hop additions for the 43L batch were as follows-

50 g Topaz 15min
50 g Vic Secret (added during whirlpool at approx 70C)


First impressions- probably too light in colour. Next time might up the crystal and Vienna slightly.

Hop profile and general malt character... At wort stage it is scarily similar! Getting the same stone fruit and tropical flavours I detect in a fresh example of furphy. Perhaps a slight more bitterness, but I expect the yeast will absorb some of that. Half the batch will be fermented using MJ Westcoast Ale, the other half will be fermented with wyeast 2565 Kolsch.

Will let you know the result in a couple of weeks. 

Cheers


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## hoppinmad (12/12/15)

Ok so an update on my attempt at a furphy clone using WY2565.

Real Furphy on left, my attempt on the right. My clone at time of tasting- 1 month in keg.

Head retention pretty poor on both beers, however I would probably rate the commercial version slightly better with a tighter creamier head... albeit a very brief head

Appearance. Obviously completely different. Furphy is a pale amber/orange colour whilst my beer turned out to be a light straw colour. 

Aroma. Hop aroma quite subdued in the commercial sample. Best before date 02/08/16- so I would assume pretty fresh. Clone attempt has significantly more fresh hop aroma, although not intense by any means. Commercial example probably has slightly more maltiness than my beer, perhaps indicating higher usage of vienna than in my recipe.

Flavour. Commercial example showed higher malt presence and drier finish than the clone. My beer had a very slight tartness which I don't get in the commercial example and had more hop fruitiness. Overall though I am pretty happy with my first attempt at the clone. I really had to try hard to detect differences between the two beers flavour wise.

A few things I would change-
increase the % of vienna to about 30%
increase crystal by about 3%
reduce overall grain bill to achieve lower F.G

After degassing I measured the F.G. of Furphy to be 1.005.... much lower than I originally thought it would have been. Given the stated alcohol of 4.4%, this means that the O.G. should technically have been 1.038. My beer started at 1.048 and finished at 1.008. So this is massively different... giving an extra 1% alcohol to the beer and higher residual sugar level.

I would almost be tempted to add 5% table sugar to the recipe to get the dryness level correct. The commercial beer is quite a thin beer in reality so it is possible that it could have some adjunct in there. I wouldn't change hopping schedule because I prefer it to the commercial example. If you wanted to achieve something closer to Furphy I would probably reduce the topaz additions and add them earlier in the boil.

I will be attempting this again at some stage in the future. So will keep you informed if I get any closer.

Cheers!


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## DU99 (14/12/15)

Remember according the furphy site it's all Locally sourced product.


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## hoppinmad (14/12/15)

Yep. The only non-Victorian ingredients I used was the Caramunich. I gathered in such small amounts (2%) flavour contribution would be minimal so used what I had on hand. I guess moving up to 5% you could look at using JW Cara, but I still think in such small amounts the difference would be minimal.


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## goatchop41 (8/1/16)

Considering the original has a greater malt presence, but was thinner, would it be more appropriate to do a long and low mash instead of adding sugar? I would have thought that this could bring the FG down without sacrificing malt characteristics in the way that the sugar might


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## hoppinmad (10/1/16)

For most beers I do generally aim to mash about 65ish for at least 90 minutes in order to ensure full conversion and eliminate any chance of stuck fermentations. But you are right, a long and low mash with a good % of vienna would definitely produce the maltiness and help with attenuation. That combined with the lower O.G. should get it down to 1.005. Perhaps 63C for 90mins+ might achieve something similar


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