# How To - Gelatine



## Jye

There have been a number of brewers getting great results with gelatine as a fining lately so here is a tutorial on how to prepare and add it.

Start with 200ml of room temp water. You can choose to boil this first and cool if you wish but Ive found this unnecessary since it will be pasteurised later on. But if you must then a tip is to use the micro wave to quickly boil and then chuck it in the freezer. Now add 2 level tea spoons of unflavoured gelatine and allow to stand for 10 min. This lets the gelatine bloom which is much like rehydrating dried yeast and will now look fluffy.






Give it a swirl to mix in the gelatine and gently heat on the stove/microwave to 75C. Heating the gelatine too hot or even boiling will denature it and it will loose the fining ability making it useless.





Hold the solution at 75C for 15 min to pasteurise then add to secondary/keg when rack to mix it well, you do not have to wait for it to cool before adding it to the beer. You should also only add it to beer that has been chilled. If added to the keg then give it a bit of a shake if youre unsure of it being mixing correctly and allow to sit cold for 3 days. The first pour from a keg will also be cloudy with yeast, just the same as if you had left a keg to sit for a number of weeks to clear. 

Gelatine does not 'set' on the bottom of the keg, so if you move it after clearing it will once again become cloudy just like a keg without gelatine. Gelatine works by clumping together yeast and increasing the particle size which allows it to fall out of suspension faster.

Thats its start enjoying your clear beer.


----------



## SJW

This is my fav. subject. But I do it a bit more simple than that. I just boil the ketle then tip half a cup of the water into a glass then add the Gelatine, mix, and add to keg. Your spot on Jye and I reckon this is a great way of clearing beer in a keg and I love it!.

Steve


----------



## blackbock

I will be trying the gelatine in some Pilseners and the like this winter, as I have not been able to clear chill haze from these pale beers recently no matter what else I try... I find the darker beers are not so prone to this haze for whatever reason, could be a pH thing, don't know.


----------



## AndrewQLD

Nice work Jye,

Here is some more info for those interested which definately confirms your usage methods.
Great Lake Gelatin



> Beer Fining
> 
> For normal clarification use 1 lb. of Great Lakes Brewers Gelatin for each 100 bbls. of beer. When excessive proteins are to be removed, 1 1/2 lbs. are recommended. For each pound of gelatin, add 6 quarts of cold water (55 - 60 F.) As soon as this is absorbed, add 26 quarts of hot water (185F.) and stir until dissolved - about 15 minutes. The solution should be added to the beer while it is being pumped into the aging tanks, by proportioning if possible, otherwise when the tank is about 2/3 full. The solution mixes best with the beer when the solution is about 130F. The web formed by the gelatin solution should settle out in within 5 to 7 days, depending upon the size and type of storage tank. A longer period is not detriment to the beer.
> 
> Gelatin in the dry form is best stored at 40 - 70 F. where the humidity is low. When thus stored, it will not lose its strength, but once in solution, the bloom will drop at the rate of about 25 points every 6 hours. For this reason the solution should be prepared just prior to adding the beer.
> 
> By using Great Lakes Brewers Gelatin, it has been found that yeast, proteins and other matters are more easily removed. By this clarification, most brewers are able to run 3 to 4 times as much beer through their filters before changing. This results in a saving in labor costs and other filtering materials greatly in excess of the cost of the gelatin.


----------



## Screwtop

Screwy's Method:

After fermentation has ceased the temp of the beer is dropped to around 3C for 2 days, depending on the yeast used most of the yeast will have dropped out in this time. The beer is then racked to a keg to which gelatine fining has been added, then force carbed and placed into the CCing fridge/freezer at around 3C. I don't drop the temp any lower as I serve around 6C and any protiens formed at 3C will be dropped out by the fining and not visible at my serving temp of 6C. The first half glass is usually murky and is thrown out, from there on the beer pours clear. There's pretty much the normal amount of crud left in the bottom of the keg below the dip tube after emptying. 

TO PREPARE THE GELATINE FINING: In a microwave safe jug, I prefer glass, place one teaspoon of Gelatine in 100ml of water and mix a little, leave for 5 min to hydrate then stir again and put it into the microwave for 15 min at 10% power. Our LG Microwave holds the temp around 80C - 85C at this setting and so pasteurises but doesn't boil the mixture. No need to allow to cool, just add to the bottom of the keg before racking the beer to it from the fermenter. Shaking during force carbing is sufficient for mixing, I find the temp after racking is around 6C a good temp for force carbing the beer as it will be close to my serving temp.

I started out using 2 teaspoons in 200ml as advised by Jye but found 1 teaspoon works equally as well and there is less "foriegn gunk" in your beer, a personal preference. As described by Jye, when using gelatine fining the beer will become cloudy again if the keg is moved, the same as a keg without gelatine fining, but it does clear again much quicker than without gelatine fining as the clumped particles drop out of suspension more quickly.



Screwy
[/quote]


----------



## Adamt

Wiki!


----------



## winkle

Adamt said:


> Wiki!


 +1
Top work chaps :icon_cheers:


----------



## warrenlw63

I just boil a few hundred mls of water to sanitise and let it cool for a while. Open a sachet of Davis gelatin dump it in and let it sit for 5 mins. Stir, turn the heat back on and just keep lightly stirring till it dissolves (no boil). Dump it in the keg (after the beer). Stir with the racking hose and leave it.

Easy peasy. Clearie beersy. :icon_chickcheers: 

Usually star bright after the first pint and generally within 24 hours @ around 3 degrees.

Warren -


----------



## Tony

blackbock said:


> I will be trying the gelatine in some Pilseners and the like this winter, as I have not been able to clear chill haze from these pale beers recently no matter what else I try... I find the darker beers are not so prone to this haze for whatever reason, could be a pH thing, don't know.



Probably pH related.

Try 1% acidulated malt and a 20 min rest at 52 deg. Worked for me.

Will try the gelatine method on my blond ale and see how it goes.

cheers


----------



## Jye

There is now a wiki so feel free to add your 2c.

Here is a great PDF on how isinglass works which is similar the gelatine. Ive found page 3 to have a great description (with pics) on how it fines. The plot showing increase in particle size is also very interesting.

Link


----------



## Back Yard Brewer

SJW said:


> This is my fav. subject. But I do it a bit more simple than that. I just boil the ketle then tip half a cup of the water into a glass then add the Gelatine, mix, and add to keg. Your spot on Jye and I reckon this is a great way of clearing beer in a keg and I love it!.
> 
> Steve




I have added it 24hrs prior to racking to secondary,plenty of gunk has fallen out.I have then dry hopped and CC'd for a week still more gunk has fallen out.By the time it is in the keg and carbed it is basically clear. Not really sure if there are any right or wrong ways. All I know is that I have had fantastic results. BTW I know of another AG brewer who does not use whirlfloc tabs just geletine and his results are to die for.

Cheers
BYB


----------



## Batz

OK Now I want a filter\gelatin experiment
I am willing as I'll be doing a double Alt this week.

Batz


----------



## dataphage

Slightly OT has anyone tried using Agar Agar as a fining agent (veggie gelatin derived from seaweed)?


----------



## SJW

I know I might get it in the neck from Mark for saying this but I bought some Isinglass the other day and did a side by side test with Gelatine. I put half a pack of gelatine (2 teaspoons) in a sanatised cup of hot boiled water from the kettle. Stired it for a few mins and dumped in the keg as I was racking from the primary. This beer was a CAP with 20% Flaked Maise. It was almost as bright as pub beer withing 48 hours, as good as you could ask for.
Then I put 10mls of Isinglass in the next keg and racked my other CAP made with 25% Flaked Rice, all to manufacturers specifications on the label. Maybe I did something wrong but I would go so far as to say that the Isinglass had almost no effect on clearing the beer. Certainily no more than the beer clearing itself over th first few days.
Bear in mind I use prety much SCREWYS methods for all of this. ie. Primary at 11 deg C, then 18 for 2 days then crash chill to 0 for 2 days then straight into the keg.
For me I wll keep using gelatine and from what have read here I might back it off to 1 teaspoon, but I don't notice any more crap in the first pour with gelatine than without as the first is always cloudy.

Steve


----------



## lagers44

I've been following this thread now for a while & noticed that most guys use the gelatine into the keg ( from primary ) but complain about "gunk" & cloudiness when moving kegs.
I've been using gelatine now for many many years but i use it into a secondary fermenter for about 1 week then when I keg the beer flows in very clear with no " Gunk " & all the sediment has already settled & been left behind. This ensures a clean keg except for some yeast remaining when the keg is finished. Moving kegs doesn't stir up much if any sediment.
It might be worth a try to use a secondary , besides I honestly believed most people did use a secondary anyway.

Lagers


----------



## Back Yard Brewer

> I've been following this thread now for a while & noticed that most guys use the gelatine into the keg ( from primary ) but complain about "gunk" & cloudiness when moving kegs.



Thats exactly right, why anyone would want to gel there keg is beyond me, but everyone to their own.




> I've been using gelatine now for many many years but i use it into a secondary fermenter for about 1 week then when I keg the beer flows in very clear with no " Gunk " & all the sediment has already settled & been left behind.



The only way to go IMHO. But I tend to use 1 teaspoon in about 100ml of warm water.

BYB


----------



## joecast

Jye said:


> There is now a wiki so feel free to add your 2c.
> 
> Here is a great PDF on how isinglass works which is similar the gelatine. Ive found page 3 to have a great description (with pics) on how it fines. The plot showing increase in particle size is also very interesting.
> 
> Link



thanks jye. i thought the most interesting part of that article was about the storage and use of isinglass. to paraphrase, when in solution should be stored <20C and used within 8 weeks of preparation. may be why steve had bad results and why i now have little hope of getting good results of the 100ml i bought today (hbs with low turnover). i'll still give it a shot though and hopefully im wrong. cheers
joe


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

joecast said:


> thanks jye. i thought the most interesting part of that article was about the storage and use of isinglass. to paraphrase, when in solution should be stored <20C and used within 8 weeks of preparation. may be why steve had bad results and why i now have little hope of getting good results of the 100ml i bought today (hbs with low turnover). i'll still give it a shot though and hopefully im wrong. cheers
> joe


I have some good info on my site about isinglass . preparation and usage.Here It is a great product if used properly. It has even fixed PP's haze problems. I dont recommend buying it in the liquid form unless you know it been refrigerated and for how long.
GB


----------



## matti

Noice work with the pictures.
I have generally added finings into second fermenter 4 days prior to bottling and will continue to do this as I keg now.

Just gently poor it in trying to cover the entire surface.
This of course becomes a bit trickier of you use a cube for lagering.
matti


----------



## joecast

Gryphon Brewing said:


> I dont recommend buying it in the liquid form unless you know it been refrigerated and for how long.
> GB


doh! wish i knew that before. oh well, its in the beer now. will hopefully keg this weekend and drink after a week or so. thanks
joe


----------



## Bribie G

Gelatine was incredibly popular in the 80s with K&K brewers here in QLD, Brigalow used to put out yeast - sized - sachets of gelatine finings and nearly everyone bought their kit, their kilo and their finings. Surprised it has only just come back into vogue.

I went out looking for Davis Gelatine and instead found McKenzies 100g tubs of gelatine at Woolies for about $3.50. I reckon a tub will do me for up to twenty brews easily.


Far better than the Davis which comes in sachets. I used two rounded teaspoons last night bottling a Morgans Amber and it's dropped crystal clear in 20 hours. And I mean crystal   

I have just gone onto bulk priming, so boiled water in a pan, added priming sugar, let it cool a bit, added the gelatine and stirred till dissolved, and chucked into priming vessel.

Easy as. Will do this every time now.


----------



## JSB

I found MacKenzie's Brand to have a beefy smell to it, the Davis version seems more refined to me,


Cheers
Jasb


----------



## MCT

I'm using the MacKenzie's brand atm, and I gotta say it works brilliantly. I'm using the same ratio as you BribieG.


----------



## MVZOOM

Gelatin is brilliant, I have only used it on my last 6 or so kegs and it just works so well.


----------



## reviled

Im gonna put the flame suit on here h34r: 

Is there an easier way than keeping the mixture at 75* for 15 minutes? As this would be fairly difficult for me with what I have available :unsure: 

Cheers


----------



## drsmurto

Boil the water first and then let it cool down to 75C.

Tis what i do. 

Dont hold it at 75C for any length of time. just dump the gelatine in, stir to dissolve and then throw the whole lot into your chilled beer.


----------



## Interloper

DrSmurto said:


> Boil the water first and then let it cool down to 75C.
> 
> Tis what i do.
> 
> Dont hold it at 75C for any length of time. just dump the gelatine in, stir to dissolve and then throw the whole lot into your chilled beer.



yup me too, as soon as dissolved you're fine. I wouldn't add it at the same time as priming sugar as someone mentioned. I chuck it in 24-48hrs before the bulk prime and it travels through the beer and grabs out a fair bit o' gunk on the way.


----------



## reviled

Wicked cheers guys...

Will try it with my Smurtos GA when I keg it :icon_cheers:


----------



## buttersd70

Just a note on geletine fining for those trying it for the first time....resist the temptation to use more geletine. This is one of those cases where less is more. Using too much will actually hinder the fining process by negating the electrical charge, or even reversing it..

The quantities in this article are absolutely spot on for good results.


----------



## barry2

I use Davis gelatine and buy it from Coles in the 125g packet.I add it to the brew three days before bottling.


----------



## SJW

> Thats exactly right, why anyone would want to gel there keg is beyond me, but everyone to their own.


Why not. I do it to every brew and never noticed any more gunk" in the bottom than without it. Obviously you have never tried it!
Like I said in my earlier post, it aint rocket science. I just let the jug/kettle half boil and put half a cup of the hot water into a small cup and stir in half a sachet of "Davis" gelatine and dump in the keg at about 3/4's full. Simple.

Steve


----------



## Carbonator

JSB said:


> I found MacKenzie's Brand to have a beefy smell to it, the Davis version seems more refined to me



Only for the Vegans; Did you guys know that Gelatine is mashed cartilage from the limb joints of animals slaughtered at the abattoirs?

Are there any Vegan brewers out there! :icon_vomit:


----------



## mika

Yeah and think of all the animals you're depriving of food by turning it into beer <_<

FFS


----------



## buttersd70

Carbonator said:


> Only for the Vegans; Did you guys know that Gelatine is mashed cartilage from the limb joints of animals slaughtered at the abattoirs?
> 
> Are there any Vegan brewers out there! :icon_vomit:



I believe there may be....the question as been put up in the past asking if agar can be used instead of geletine....an interesting question; according to the wikipedia entry for agar, it can in fact be used as a fining, but I've never tried it.


----------



## QIK86

Can you add finings to the primary fermenter a couple of days before bottling? Would it still work if just poured in and not stirred through?


----------



## Back Yard Brewer

reviled said:


> Im gonna put the flame suit on here h34r:
> 
> 
> Cheers



Gonna put my flame suit on here as well h34r: Can someone find / dig up the previous thread that discussed gelatine use  save burning up space for no reason, on the AHB server.

BYB


----------



## yardy

Screwtop said:


> *Screwy's Method:
> 
> After fermentation has ceased the temp of the beer is dropped to around 3C for 2 days, depending on the yeast used most of the yeast will have dropped out in this time. The beer is then racked to a keg to which gelatine fining has been added.
> 
> Screwy
> *



would this method work ok if applied to secondary instead of the keg ?

cheers


----------



## Jye

No worries Yardy. The important thing is to have the beer as cold as possible, my preference is to have it below serving temp while finning.


----------



## yardy

Jye said:


> *No worries Yardy. The important thing is to have the beer as cold as possible, my preference is to have it below serving temp while finning.*



thanks Jye,

i'll try it out on the Kolsch

cheers


----------



## Screwtop

reviled said:


> Im gonna put the flame suit on here h34r:
> 
> Is there an easier way than keeping the mixture at 75* for 15 minutes? As this would be fairly difficult for me with what I have available :unsure:
> 
> Cheers




Obviously there are lots of other methods as above reviled. The reason I do the 15 min @ 75 - 80 is to pasteurise, don't want any "greeblies" in my beer - AND - because its easy :lol: I put the gelatine and water in a Pyrex jug and after 5 minutes to rehydrate put it into the Microwave at power setting 2 for 15 min. This way I can do something else while pasteurising the gelatine.

Screwy


----------



## reviled

I used gelatine, I mixed a cup of water with 1tsp of gelatine when the water cooled to 75 and then stirred the crap out of it.. Reason I used more than 100mls of water is my thermometer wont take a good reading unless its got x amount of it submerged...

My beer still has chill haze like buggery, but ive noticed a MASSIVE improvement!! 

My question is this, if youve done a gelatine addition to the fermenter, after you keg the beer, is the yeast able to be farmed? Or does the gelatine stuff if? It clumped together like cement, so not sure if it will reculture like normal?  

Cheers


----------



## flattop

I guess it's a suck it and see, you could try making a starter, but my guess is the yeast will be all clumpy and wont work as well at the beginning.


----------



## muckey

reviled said:


> My beer still has chill haze like buggery, but ive noticed a MASSIVE improvement!!



gelatine will assist the yeast to drop. If you want to get rid of the chill haze you need poly clar - I'll let those that have used it, explain it

As I understand, yeast doesnt clump to gelatine, the gelatine assists the yeast in clumping to itself so reusing it shouldn't be an issue.
having said that, the beers I've done have all been fined in secondary but repitched from trub out of primary. (same beer recipes)


----------



## OLDS2006

barry3 said:


> I use Davis gelatine and buy it from Coles in the 125g packet.I add it to the brew three days before bottling.



Do you chill the fermenter before adding the gelatine as you are bottling and naturally carbonating ?
I`ve been told once beer is chilled, it should stay that way.
Dazza


----------



## buttersd70

OLDS2006 said:


> Do you chill the fermenter before adding the gelatine as you are bottling and naturally carbonating ?
> I`ve been told once beer is chilled, it should stay that way.
> Dazza



Yeah, chill it to fine. No reason to keep the beer cold once it's chilled....just warm back up to ambient prior to bottling.


----------



## zabond

probly another dumb question but if you added gel to primary at about 10* left a couple of days then transfered to secondry droped temp to 3* and then added a second lot of gel for another couple of days before kegging would this remove more sediment[thus less gunk in keg]or would this just be a waste of time ?
Russ


----------



## lagers44

This discussion keeps popping up from time to time & everyone does their own thing & it seems to work well for them, seems like there are no " rules " to doing it.

Here is a link to the article screwy wrote on the subject. How to Gelatine

Lagers


----------



## devo

For those here using Gelatine when you happen to have vegan or vegetarian friends over for a drink, do you inform them that Gelatine is used in your beer?


----------



## Bribie G

devo said:


> For those here using Gelatine when you happen to have vegan or vegetarian friends over for a drink, do you inform them that Gelatine is used in your beer?


I don't know any vegans or vegetarians but if someone identifies themselves as such then it's like a badge saying "no dead animal products please" so ethically they should be told _before_ drinking.

However normal carnivore friends could be a worry, not to mention some religions?

_Congratulations you have just drunk six pints of natural beer made from grains, hops, yeast and water with the addition a product made from by-products of the meat and leather industry, mainly pork skins, pork and cattle bones, or split cattle hides.

Somebody bring a bucket, sorry Rabbi...._.. :icon_vomit:


----------



## flattop

Don't know any vegetarians or Rabbi's so i guess my beer will be drunk by all who can stand the taste...


----------



## clarkey7

Would have been good if I'd seen this thread and read the articile by Jye and Screwy before I used Gelatin yesterday.  

I have made an AAPA (Awesome APA) which was dry hopped......

One week in the keg carbed and cold - and there are still a few floaties around. I was going to filter but am concerned about losing some of the character (the jury is out on this I know - open a another can of worms h34r: ) so went with the Gelatin.

I just added the 1tsp gelatin solution approx 70deg.... to the keg, purged the O2 and gently inverted the keg a couple of times.....I hope this works OK.

I was thinking of pouring a couple of glasses off at the 24hr mark.....

Is this too soon?

PB :icon_cheers:


----------



## Bribie G

Should work ok but personally I would give it 2 or 3 days to completely drop clear as there is a fair vertical distance for it to fall in a cornie. I only use one teaspoon per brew.


----------



## lagers44

I've always been using 1 tablespoon 20gm per 20L brew but I think i'll try 1-2teaspoons 5-10gm & see how it goes. With 1tbls i still get good clarity but i add mine into the secondary not the keg , the keg & bottles have very little yeast residue.

Never brew without it.


----------



## clarkey7

Just to let people know how I went.

The 1 teaspoon was plenty and at the 24hr mark had worked as I poured a glass of cloudy crud. I'm guessing it was mainly yeast.

At this stage it still had the floaties (hop particles) but was a bit clearer than it was before I started so I waited another 4-5 days b4 I checked it again. No change....

Obviously Gelatin doesn't work as effectively on the hop particles or I need to use more ????

Anyway I filtered it this arvo......Perfect now....

BTW - I beleive the beer is just as flavoursome as it was before I filtered it.

Cheers

PB


----------



## hazard

I've been adding isinglass to my secondary for some time - liquid stuff i got from LHBS months ago. Reading this thread, I see that you shouldn't use liquid stuff after 3 weeks, so perhaps I've been wasting time and should use gelatine (might explain why beer is still hazy).

Since I bottle exclusively, I've got to ask:
1. Will gelatine leave enough yeast behind for bottle conditioning? This assumes that I don't chill beer.
2. If I chill beer as recommended in many comments will that suck too much yeast out of suspension or should I stick to room temp (18 Deg)

Most people above seem to use kegs, so I guess residual yeast is not a concern for many - but I want clear beer AND enough yeast for bottling. Am I asking for too much?


----------



## SJW

I swear by Gelatine. I just boil the jug and whack 2 tea spoons of Gelatine in a cup with a little boiling or near enough boiling water. Mix and then dump on top of the beer once transfer is complete. I have tried polycar and isinglass but for me I like Gelatine. 

Steve


----------



## Effect

hazard said:


> I've been adding isinglass to my secondary for some time - liquid stuff i got from LHBS months ago. Reading this thread, I see that you shouldn't use liquid stuff after 3 weeks, so perhaps I've been wasting time and should use gelatine (might explain why beer is still hazy).
> 
> Since I bottle exclusively, I've got to ask:
> 1. Will gelatine leave enough yeast behind for bottle conditioning? This assumes that I don't chill beer.
> 2. If I chill beer as recommended in many comments will that suck too much yeast out of suspension or should I stick to room temp (18 Deg)
> 
> Most people above seem to use kegs, so I guess residual yeast is not a concern for many - but I want clear beer AND enough yeast for bottling. Am I asking for too much?




I have drunk beers that have been gelatined and bottled...

I wouldn't think there wouldn't be enough yeast if you crash cooled and gelatined...just take a bit longer.


----------



## flattop

Hazard
I have used isinglass after 3 weeks with no probs but.....

1) Gelatin wont affect bottle conditioning or worst case wont affect it much, perhaps carbonation is slightly slower but i'm not sure that it is.
2) Condition the bottles for 2-4 weeks after bottling at around 20* or room temp before chilling otherwise the yeast will slow down and carbonate more slowly....


----------



## hazard

Phillip said:


> I have drunk beers that have been gelatined and bottled...
> 
> I wouldn't think there wouldn't be enough yeast if you crash cooled and gelatined...just take a bit longer.



Thanks Phillip. Has anyone else fined and chilled before bottling? How did it go??


----------



## buttersd70

never a problem.


----------



## Gavo

hazard said:


> Thanks Phillip. Has anyone else fined and chilled before bottling? How did it go??



I do this every time now plus I polycar also. Bottles carb up within a week still.

Cheers
Gavo.


----------



## Fents

been using the gelatine in most brews latley and i love it. oh so clear beer.


----------



## haysie

tried polyclar and gelatine but now use nothing but a crashchill for a couple of days and recirculate recirculate then recirculate some more


----------



## lagers44

> Has anyone else fined and chilled before bottling? How did it go??



I do this all the time as there is usually a liter or 2 left over from he keg which goes into bottles. It may take an extra week or 2 to carb up but if you have a good quantity of stock and rotate through it you wont notice the extra time. As a plus you get much less sediment in the bottle & can pour to the last drop if you use a good flocculant yeast.

Lagers 

edit: must learn to quote...


----------



## citizensnips

alot of discussion seems to be around using gelatine with kegs. What about if you bottle. For a process like mine where i use primary then crash chill in primary for around a week then rack to a bottling bucket, where would i add gelatine?
Cheers


----------



## KHB

eddy22 said:


> alot of discussion seems to be around using gelatine with kegs. What about if you bottle. For a process like mine where i use primary then crash chill in primary for around a week then rack to a bottling bucket, where would i add gelatine?
> Cheers



Personally id add it to the fermenter just before chrash chilling, but id transfer it to secondary on the gelatine then crash chill.

KHB


----------



## FireBlade

I've racked my last 4 batches onto 1 teaspoon of gelatine in 100mls of hot water from the kettle solution. Left them for 2 days and kegged. The clarity is amazing, it's like pouring a pub beer that tastes good.


----------



## under

Can gelatine be added to the primary a few days before bottling, if not racking.

Does it need to be carefully mixed, or just tipped in?


----------



## Bribie G

under said:


> Can gelatine be added to the primary a few days before bottling, if not racking.
> 
> Does it need to be carefully mixed, or just tipped in?



I find the best result with gelatine is to add it as late as possible - even at bulk priming stage so it goes straight into the bottle and does its work there. I have done that with UK bitters that I haven't polyclared.


----------



## under

Well my brews been in the fermenter since Sat 22/02. I didnt get a chance to rack to secondary, and I wont have time to CC it.

Done a hydro reading today and it kept coming out really thick and hazy. It looks like its clear at the top, just the bottom thats still dropping out.

Will be bottling this Sat.

Fining whilst bulk priming sounds odd. Would I be best off chucking it in Wednesday, and then racking to priming bucket on Sat???


----------



## Bribie G

Nah, dissolve two teaspoons in some warm sterile water and just mix it into the priming bucket. Here's one I did two days ago (Sat night around 8pm so thats less than 48 hrs) and is exactly what I would expect from a warmish fined beer. 

Having said that, for a lager type beer (the one in the bottle is a UK bitter) I would cold crash, gelatine in secondary to drop any yeast, leave for two days and then polyclar to remove chill haze.

Several ways to skin a cat B) 





Cheers :icon_cheers:


----------



## under

Clear. I'll give it a go...


----------



## hazard

BribieG said:


> Nah, dissolve two teaspoons in some warm sterile water and just mix it into the priming bucket.



So you've got gelatine in your bottles?? How does that affect the flavour?

I can understand that this method removes the intermediate racking to a secondary to clear the beer (I assume that you go straight from primary to priming bucket) but gelatine in the bottle? Is this called aeroplane ale? Are the lost drops from the bottle all thick and gooey?

hazard


----------



## Carbonator

hazard said:


> So you've got gelatine in your bottles?? How does that affect the flavour?
> 
> I can understand that this method removes the intermediate racking to a secondary to clear the beer (I assume that you go straight from primary to priming bucket) but gelatine in the bottle? Is this called aeroplane ale? Are the lost drops from the bottle all thick and gooey?
> 
> hazard



Gelatine is tasteless and when I used it, it was like a thin layer of Latex over the sediment on the bottom of my fermenter. If you want it to be like "aeroplane ale", you will need to add 5 Table Spoons of sugar to your beer jug at time of pouring it out of the bottle/keg


----------



## under

hazard said:


> So you've got gelatine in your bottles?? How does that affect the flavour?
> 
> I can understand that this method removes the intermediate racking to a secondary to clear the beer (I assume that you go straight from primary to priming bucket) but gelatine in the bottle? Is this called aeroplane ale? Are the lost drops from the bottle all thick and gooey?
> 
> hazard



Exactly. Does it affect the bottled beer?

Thats why im thinking of doing it a few days before bottling. So that it all settles under the level of the tap for racking to priming bucket.


----------



## chappo1970

hazard said:


> Thanks Phillip. Has anyone else fined and chilled before bottling? How did it go??



All the time and it works exceptionally well. Never had a problem with carbonation or taste that I have noticed...



hazard said:


> So you've got gelatine in your bottles?? How does that affect the flavour?
> 
> I can understand that this method removes the intermediate racking to a secondary to clear the beer (I assume that you go straight from primary to priming bucket) but gelatine in the bottle? Is this called aeroplane ale? Are the lost drops from the bottle all thick and gooey?
> 
> hazard



Too much water:gelatine volume to allow it to set or make any significant difference to fluid state of the beer. I fine with gelatine and crash chill when racking to secondary vessle after fermentation has completed. I don't fine when racking to bottles. But I do bulk prime to achieve my preferred carbonation levels.



under said:


> Exactly. Does it affect the bottled beer?
> 
> Thats why im thinking of doing it a few days before bottling. So that it all settles under the level of the tap for racking to priming bucket.



None! None! None! and... wait... NONE! Gelatine has no distinguishable flavour. Get a big old teaspoon of gelatine and mix it in a coffee mug stir till dissolved and have a taste. It won't kill you! Now if you add Airplane jelly that will make a yummy beer IMO! :icon_vomit: 

AND

Yep that's the way I roll!


----------



## Effect

devo said:


> For those here using Gelatine when you happen to have vegan or vegetarian friends over for a drink, do you inform them that Gelatine is used in your beer?




my girlfriend is a vego, and so are a few of her friends...Well - more beer for me is all I can say.

I will try agar-agar one day. But I have never tried gelatin before, so I have to compare it...I have McKenzie's Gelatin in my cupboard (only about 3 months old). Can I use this - well more precise, will it impart any 'meat' flavour at all. I am asking this because someone posted earlier saying they prefer the other brand as McKenzie's adds a 'beefy' flavour.

I will try both (agar and gelatin) and hopefully post a side by side.

Cheers
Phil


----------



## buttersd70

Muckey uses McKenzies....never noticed any beefiness in his beer.

Edit...don't know if Agar will work....anyone know if it has the right charge characteristics?


----------



## Fents

i use mckenzies and i reckon its fine. when you mix it up with water sure it smells a bit like a prime cut blade steak (joking, just smells a bit gamey) but you can never taste it once its been kegged or smell it for that matter. i use it in the keg to and not in primary.


----------



## Fourstar

buttersd70 said:


> Edit...don't know if Agar will work....anyone know if it has the right charge characteristics?



Ive read Agar is used commercially somewhere to fine beer or fruit juice. Its out there somewhere on the interwebs


----------



## cdbrown

I use the mckenzies unflavoured gelatine on all my brews now (except for the weizen). Once ferment has finished, chill in the primary to drop as much out of suspension. Mix up 2 teaspoons gelatine in cup of near boiling water, tip it into spare fermenter. Rack from primary to spare. A couple of days latter chuck in some polyclar to reduce chill haze, then the following day transfer to keg and bottles. Works a treat.


----------



## buttersd70

Fourstar said:


> Ive read Agar is used commercially somewhere to fine beer or fruit juice. Its out there somewhere on the interwebs



It seems you're right....a bit of a search turned up a few sources....


> In the fining of juices, alcoholic beverages
> and vinegars, Agar-Agar has shown a perfect
> functionality as a flocculating agent
> and is reported to be even better than gelatine
> for this purpose.


from http://www.harnisch.com/well/files/pdf/208/agaragar.pdf

and 



> There are other fining agents that have traditionally been used, including blood, agar-agar, and occasionally milk. Blood is tough to get and to keep fresh. Agar-agar is a good fining agent, but can be very expensive. Gelatin works just as well and is cheap. Milk is mentioned in some wine-making books under the heading of casein, which is the protein compound responsible for the fining action.


from [URL="http://makewine.com/winemaking/finishing/fining/"]http://makewine.com/winemaking/finishing/fining/[/URL]

Hmmm. Blood as a fining agent....Dexter Dark Ale, anyone? :lol:


----------



## Fourstar

buttersd70 said:


> Agar-agar is a good fining agent, but can be very expensive.



Ha, Since when? powdered form is like 90 cents a packet. (does me 1L worth of slants~) or a big wad of the raw seaweed form at the local asian grocer was around 2 dollars. I wonder how you would use it? maybe like gelatine leaf?

Maybe there is an agar agar recession we dont know about! :lol: 

Another thing of interest would be how much we would use. i would not agree it would be te same as gelatine as 1 sachet is around 12 grams and almost instantly sets 1L of wort.


----------



## buttersd70

Fourstar said:


> Ha, Since when? powdered form is like 90 cents a packet. (does me 1L worth of slants~) or a big wad of the raw seaweed form at the local asian grocer was around 2 dollars. I wonder how you would use it? maybe like gelatine leaf?
> 
> Maybe there is an agar agar recession we dont know about! :lol:
> 
> Another thing of interest would be how much we would use. i would not agree it would be te same as gelatine as 1 sachet is around 12 grams and almost instantly sets 1L of wort.


Yeah, wacky yanks, I think...

You're right about the quantity needing to be much less....can't remember how much I used for my slants, but it certainly wasn't a full pack...It sets a hell of a lot better than geletine. Maybe 2g, to throw a number off the top of my head with no real logic or reason?


----------



## Fourstar

buttersd70 said:


> Yeah, wacky yanks, I think...
> 
> You're right about the quantity needing to be much less....can't remember how much I used for my slants, but it certainly wasn't a full pack...



yeah i dropped my whole agar pack into 250g of water as i was expecting the same agar:water ratio... well it set like concrete. had to thin it out with 1L and even then it set really quickly after taking them out of the steam/pressure bath.


----------



## petesbrew

I just used Gelatin in a KnK Amarillo APA. It was initially very cloudy thanks to hops & grain sediment.
Well, it's dropped everything out, and the sample is nice and clear, however it's definitely stripped out a lot of flavour as well.
Gave it a little top up with 10g more amarillo, and will bottle tomorrow night.

I reckon I'll leave the gelatin out from now on. I usually find an extra week in the fermenter usually does the job okay.


----------



## reviled

petesbrew said:


> Well, it's dropped everything out, and the sample is nice and clear, however it's definitely stripped out a lot of flavour as well.



What sort of flavours do you reckon its stripped out? I cant say ive noticed this apart from it getting rid of the 'yeastie' taste :unsure:


----------



## petesbrew

reviled said:


> What sort of flavours do you reckon its stripped out? I cant say ive noticed this apart from it getting rid of the 'yeastie' taste :unsure:


Pretty much body from the crystal grain, hop flavour - it's still there, but just not in your face anymore. There was up to 50g Amarillo in it... an inefficient use of a good hop, in hindsight, as it was mainly late addition.
Can't really say... could be that "yeasty" taste.
It's just a pale comparison of what it was... 

oh well, live and learn. The gelatin did what it was supposed to.


----------



## bconnery

Phillip said:


> my girlfriend is a vego, and so are a few of her friends...Well - more beer for me is all I can say.
> 
> I will try agar-agar one day. But I have never tried gelatin before, so I have to compare it...I have McKenzie's Gelatin in my cupboard (only about 3 months old). Can I use this - well more precise, will it impart any 'meat' flavour at all. I am asking this because someone posted earlier saying they prefer the other brand as McKenzie's adds a 'beefy' flavour.
> 
> I will try both (agar and gelatin) and hopefully post a side by side.
> 
> Cheers
> Phil



I have a couple of vegan friends and I inform them before hand and also let them know that the amount of any remaining in the finished beer is negligible, if any. 
They also drank a lot in the UK where they favour the use of fish bladders so they can't be too fussy 
I'd be interested in agar though so look forward to hearing about that...


----------



## Fourstar

petesbrew said:


> Well, it's dropped everything out, and the sample is nice and clear, however it's definitely stripped out a lot of flavour as well.




Hey petesbrew, i think this may be a one-off misconception. Gelatine only strips the protiens, loose hop material and yeast out of suspension and helps them 'set' on the bottom of the keg. Unless you mean is taken away a 'dry hop flavour or a yeast/hop material flavour' which it would and thats the whole point of this exercise.

I gelatined around 10 beers now with no ill-effects of flavour being stripped out. This is also a practise done by Macros worldwide using gelatine, agar and other finning products like fish swim bladders 

Sucks you didt have a positive experience. Cheers!


----------



## Fourstar

bconnery said:


> I'd be interested in agar though so look forward to hearing about that...




Im thinking of using agar in my next batch too. Still trying to mull up the ratios to use. maybe 2g:L like wen making slants?


----------



## petesbrew

Fourstar said:


> Hey petesbrew, i think this may be a one-off misconception. Gelatine only strips the protiens, loose hop material and yeast out of suspension and helps them 'set' on the bottom of the keg. Unless you mean is taken away a 'dry hop flavour or a yeast/hop material flavour' which it would and thats the whole point of this exercise.
> 
> I gelatined around 10 beers now with no ill-effects of flavour being stripped out. This is also a practise done by Macros worldwide using gelatine, agar and other finning products like fish swim bladders
> 
> Sucks you didt have a positive experience. Cheers!


Hey fourstar, Well, my beer is now crystal clear, and it still tastes okay, so yeah it did it's job! 
Not too worried here. I have used gelatin before in the past, and been happy with it.
Maybe it's just my tastes are changing.
RDWHAHB :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## buttersd70

Fourstar said:


> Im thinking of using agar in my next batch too. Still trying to mull up the ratios to use. maybe 2g:L like wen making slants?



I wouldn't be going 2g/L :blink: 

Given that gelatine is used at a rate of 1-2tsp, how many grams is that? about 10g max, I would think. 2g/L x 20L = 40g....thats a hell of a lot of agar  

2g/10L sounds a bit more like it, I would have thought. so about 3/4-1tsp a batch....don't know for sure, just throwing it out there.


----------



## Fourstar

buttersd70 said:


> I wouldn't be going 2g/L :blink:
> 
> Given that gelatine is used at a rate of 1-2tsp, how many grams is that? about 10g max, I would think. 2g/L x 20L = 40g....thats a hell of a lot of agar
> 
> 2g/10L sounds a bit more like it, I would have thought. so about 3/4-1tsp a batch....don't know for sure, just throwing it out there.




Crap, i obviously didn think thru my post I think i just typed what i was thinking, slant ratio rates... Idiot  

yep.... a keg of beer set like jello... niiice.

If only anyone knew the gelling rates of gelatine and agar in water we could get an idea as to what ratio we should be using.


maybe a 1/2 teaspoon in a keg?!?


----------



## Bribie G

RE agar: I was in the Chinese supermarket yesterday and they have big packets of long loose silky agar 'threads' that look a bit like those rice noodles for very few dollars. Ingredients: agar. Didn't take too much notice of the price as I'm happy with gelatine but if anyone is near a chinese place it's worth checking out.


----------



## SJW

I find it hard to beleive that using Gelatine would strip out any flavours. In fact I would go so far as to say that it would not, esspecially when used as recomended (1 or 2 teaspoons mixed with near boiling water and added to the keg or secondary). I use Gelatine in everything I brew bar Wheat beers and it makes no noticable diff to the beer. IMO of coarse.


Steve


----------



## Fourstar

SJW said:


> I find it hard to beleive that using Gelatine would strip out any flavours. In fact I would go so far as to say that it would not, esspecially when used as recomended (1 or 2 teaspoons mixed with near boiling water and added to the keg or secondary). I use Gelatine in everything I brew bar Wheat beers and it makes no noticable diff to the beer. IMO of coarse.
> 
> Steve



As i noted Steve, the only thing it would 'strip out' flavour wise would be hop particles and excess yeast. If you dont have these going into your mouth, you definitely wont taste them!


----------



## SJW

Good point!


----------



## Bribie G

I have had people say that Nottingham for example stripped out their hop additions. The question is where did they get stripped to? If the yeast itself had 'absorbed' the essential oils then if any yeast cells remained in suspension the beer would presumably taste a bit different to a totally clear version after priming ?


----------



## jbirbeck

every time you use fining you take something out of the beer, , proteins, yeast etc etc. Taking them out _will_ affect the flavour profile in some way. It could also strip colour and body. The issue is whether you can notice the impact when you use it. in winemaking they are very careful to ensure the fining level is the absolute minimum to achieve the desired result, too much and you can strip flavour and/or get some new off flavours and too little it doesn't do the job. Of course the winemakers may be wrong...


----------



## Fourstar

BribieG said:


> I have had people say that Nottingham for example stripped out their hop additions. The question is where did they get stripped to? If the yeast itself had 'absorbed' the essential oils then if any yeast cells remained in suspension the beer would presumably taste a bit different to a totally clear version after priming ?



Much like how a CPA tastes different poured clear to a roused one. As does a hefeweizen too! Its a known fact that yeast harbours flavours in our beer, wether we choose to filter tham or not is our choice. Following some styles we may infact be damaging them by our approach to clearing them...... But who would gelatine a wit :blink: 

Either way as i always say, if it feels good, do it.


----------



## churchy

Hi just reading the thread and I will be a first time user.SJW whats the reason for not using it in wheat beers?Thats what I have in secondary at the moment and was going to try using finnings.



Andrew


----------



## Fourstar

churchy said:


> Hi just reading the thread and I will be a first time user.SJW whats the reason for not using it in wheat beers?Thats what I have in secondary at the moment and was going to try using finnings.
> Andrew



Is it a belgian wit? If so, its meant to be a cloudy beer (starch haze from unmalted wheat). Clearing this would be like trying to strip your hop additions from a IIPA to deliberatly make it as hopped as an English Mild. :blink: 

If its a GERMAN Wheat ( hefeweizen, dunkelweizen etc.) You can filter it and turn it into a Krystall Weizen if you are not interested in the flavour profile the yeast gives in a traditional 'Weizen Mit Hefe' (with yeast).


----------



## Bribie G

Yup. I got a coles myer voucher for Xmas and bought four Kristall weizens from 1st choice in tallie bottles. The most boring German beers I have ever tasted - reminded me of Tasman Bitter :unsure: and in fact I sent the last one to my two boys' stepfather when they went back home there after the weekend. He's from Hamburg and was over the moon. :icon_cheers:


----------



## SJW

> Hi just reading the thread and I will be a first time user.SJW whats the reason for not using it in wheat beers?Thats what I have in secondary at the moment and was going to try using finnings.
> 
> 
> 
> Andrew



Yeast in suspension is where most of the flavour comes from in a wheat beer. Dont get rid of it. Theres nothing better than a nice cloudy Hefe made with a fresh 3068. mmmmmmmmmmmmm :wub: :wub: 


Steve


----------



## Fourstar

The only Krystall i have enjoyed and been over the moon about has been the Weihenstephan Krystall. Probably because it is very Pils driven. Strong grainy pils aroma. I'd still always pick a Hefe over a Krystall... Mmm Schneider Weisse Original :icon_drool2:


----------



## churchy

Yes it is a german wheat beer with 3068 yeast so I'll leave it and I also have a raspberry wheat with a US-05 yeast in the secondary fermenter, I will also leave this one.


Thanks guys


----------



## Fourstar

The raspberry you can clear with gelatine (which i did with mine) as yeast flavour is not going to add anything special from a US05 in a raspberry wheat beer. If anything, it will inhibit the flavour profile given by the raspberries.


----------



## churchy

So I ferment my ales at 20c.After fermentation has finished should I reduce the temp and add the geletine for a few days and then bring up to room temp to bottle?


Andrew


----------



## Fourstar

Keep the beer at cold temps when bottling. no need to warm up and it will probably force CO2 out of solution and cause the trub to start flying around in the beer. Thus, putting back all of the stuff you wanted out of your beer in the 1st place.


----------



## [email protected]

Hey guys,
Another noob question for you...
Once my brews are finished fermenting, I am planning to go straight from the primary fermenter (after crashing) to conditioning and carbing in primed kegs.
If I do it this way would it be beneficial or harmful to use gelatin in the primary and then also in the keg?
I don't mind the first glass being cloudy as long as I don't waste too much more than that...  
Cheers,
Joel


----------



## buttersd70

You only fine once.


----------



## Fourstar

Well im about ready to venture down the unventured path. The deep dark unknown. AGAR-AGAR!

Ive got an amber ale sitting quietly in the fermenter waiting to be transferred to the keg. Ive done a fair whack of reading and the consensus for switching and swapping gelatine for agar is approx 1:5 agar:gelatine so thats the path im taking (from wine publications on the interwebs anyway) so i will be adding approx 1/4 teaspoon to the keg.

The only thing im worried about is how quickly it sets. I might have a play with working up a solution and dumping it into crash chilled temp (0-5deg) water compared to warm and then chilled water and observe the gelling (if there is any). My only concern is it may gel up as soon as it hits the keg and render the fining ability useless.

I will update with before and after pics as well.


----------



## Fourstar

Well, no pics as it wouldnt pickup the agar floating in ti, i think i twas poor night lighting.

anyway, i kegged the amber ale last night, slight haze but nothing of a concern, almost doesnt even need fining in the keg. As for prepping the agar, it takes allot of time compared to gelatine to go clear. i still ended up with some particles after 15 mins of pasturisation @ 75 deg.

I setup 2 Vodka shot glasses (the long 60ml ones) one with tap water, the other with 6 deg water and tipped around 10 ml of agar solution into each. 

24deg tap water showed the agar eventually settle as a white mass at the bottom of the glass after around 5 mins
6deg water showed the agar immediatly start to set and stay suspended in the glass.

I placed both into the freezer to try and crash chill them further, pulled them both out around 10 mins later. the tap water had seemed to set the agar on the bottom and the 6 degree water still had the agar in suspension.

What were my findings? NFI! I dont knwo what would be the best outcome, the agar suspended in the liquid for a longer time, or sitting on the bottom of the keg, glueing up all of the yeast?!?

Will post up a pic of the beer after 2 weeks in the keg.


----------



## Bribie G

Looking forward to some pics. I'll grab a packet of the agar threads in Chinatown tomorrow. I'm interested in trying it to see if it gives firm bottoms in the bottles as opposed to gelatine's "fluffy" bottoms.

What form did your agar come in, sheets or powder or threads?


----------



## barfridge

I am now officially a gelatin convert. I've never had especially clear beers, and it's never bothered me.

But I've recently decided to make an effort with the appearance, and it had done wonders! For the 2 minutes it takes to boil the kettle and do the old dump and stir, the results are well worth it.


----------



## Jase71

Are members getting good results with gelatine _without_ chilling their fermenters ? I don't have the facilities to refrigerate my barrels.


----------



## jbirbeck

Jase71 said:


> Are members getting good results with gelatine _without_ chilling their fermenters ? I don't have the facilities to refrigerate my barrels.



yes, I'm not chilling and done a few Gelatine runs and its worked fine.


----------



## chappo1970

Jase71 said:


> Are members getting good results with gelatine _without_ chilling their fermenters ? I don't have the facilities to refrigerate my barrels.



I have done in the past prior to having the ability to CC and got very good results Jase. CC will help to drop more yeasties and bits but gelatine by it's self does a noticable job IMHO.


----------



## smollocks

Jase71 said:


> Are members getting good results with gelatine _without_ chilling their fermenters ? I don't have the facilities to refrigerate my barrels.



I don't have refrigeration for my fermenter and my success has been limited. My bottles still have sediment, but it sets at the bottom of the bottle in the fridge. If I pour while the bottle is cold, the beer is clear but if I pour any later the sediment is stirred up.


----------



## Bribie G

smollocks said:


> I don't have refrigeration for my fermenter and my success has been limited. My bottles still have sediment, but it sets at the bottom of the bottle in the fridge. If I pour while the bottle is cold, the beer is clear but if I pour any later the sediment is stirred up.



This is known as 'fluffy bottoms'  and is a characteristic of gelatine if it's used too close to bottling time. Far better to add the gelatine to the fermenter and let it settle right out, then bottle. You should get almost clear beer on bottling with minimal sediment. Don't worry about the beer being too clear on bottling, there will still be enough yeast cells for the bottle conditioning.


----------



## hazard

smollocks said:


> I don't have refrigeration for my fermenter and my success has been limited. My bottles still have sediment, but it sets at the bottom of the bottle in the fridge. If I pour while the bottle is cold, the beer is clear but if I pour any later the sediment is stirred up.


I guess thee is a simple answer here - why would you pour a beer if it was warm???

I only recently tried fining and chilling, and can confirm BribieG's comments above. My process (for a partial mash Dr Smurto Landlord) with extract) was:
- after 1 week in primary, racked to secondary - 1 teaspoon of gelatine dissolved in a cup of warm water added to secondary before racking, to mix it in.
- after another week (to reach FG), secondary fermentor put in fridge at 5 deg.
- after another week, take out of fridge, rack and bulk prime and bottle

This was bottled 4 weeks ago. After 1 week there was hardly any carbonation, after 2 weeks it was getting better now it is fine - so it does carb up, but needs extra time. The beer is very clear, the clearest I've made, and there is no fluffy bottom. Note that gelatine was in the fermentor for 2 weeks before bottling, and had plenty of time to setlle to the bottom, so little if any got into bottles. Oh, and it it tastes good too.

Hazard


----------



## Fourstar

BribieG said:


> Looking forward to some pics. I'll grab a packet of the agar threads in Chinatown tomorrow. I'm interested in trying it to see if it gives firm bottoms in the bottles as opposed to gelatine's "fluffy" bottoms.
> What form did your agar come in, sheets or powder or threads?



Hey Bribie, one of my recent beers (APA) had been done with agar and the results were great, equal to gelatine without the hoof! when the keg blew, i noticed little pearls of agar on the walls of the keg before cleaning. The sediment was very thick and compact.. it didnt seem to be gelled it seemed liek there were 'small chunks' of agar on the bottom, possibly helping to mat it down. 

my current beers are dark so i cant give a good visual inspection to how well its working. Ive got a Munich helles about to hit some yeast. when thats done (or another light beer), i'll do a '1st pour photo' and a 3 day after photo for comparison.

I got mine in powdered form. i use 1/4-1/2 of a tsp per keg. pop it in 150-200ml of boiled water and let it sit for around 15 mins @ 80deg approx, it takes a while for it all to break down like jelly. You will still find some solid pearls but all is good, just dump it in. they all settle in the sediment (except for a few). i never ended up with any in the glass (out of 3 kegs so far).

Cheers! :icon_cheers:


----------



## smollocks

BribieG said:


> This is known as 'fluffy bottoms'  and is a characteristic of gelatine if it's used too close to bottling time. Far better to add the gelatine to the fermenter and let it settle right out, then bottle. You should get almost clear beer on bottling with minimal sediment. Don't worry about the beer being too clear on bottling, there will still be enough yeast cells for the bottle conditioning.


I had just assumed the sediment was caused by the act of bottling stirring up some of the yeast cake into solution. I've been adding gelatine about 72 hours before bottling, maybe next time I'll rack to secondary after a week and give the gelatine a further week to work.



hazard said:


> I guess thee is a simple answer here - why would you pour a beer if it was warm??


For example if I poured a 375mL bottle into a 250mL glass, the remainder would warm up if I left it out of the fridge while I drank the first glass.


----------



## buttersd70

hazard said:


> I guess thee is a simple answer here - why would you pour a beer if it was warm???



Different temperatures for different beers, hazard. I like my bitters at 10C, stouts at closer to 14C. Some would consider that to be warm.


----------



## drtomc

buttersd70 said:


> Different temperatures for different beers, hazard. I like my bitters at 10C, stouts at closer to 14C. Some would consider that to be warm.



Taking the the words right out of my mouth. 

T.


----------



## troopa

Im not one to do something Half Hearted
so i tried gelatin before i got a fridge
well i musta done something wrong cause my beer ended up with gelatinous little globules in it 

took a week to settle int eh bottle and it still tasted fine

next time i used gelatin i had a fridge and CCed and gelatined and its got to be one or the clearest beers ive ever seen

Tom


----------



## Renegade

Does anyone get strands of white on the surface of their beer after a few days of gelatinising ? I did a secondary with gel about four days ago, and there's quite a bit of it, almost like the veins you see in a slab of marble. Sitting at around 17 degrees. 

(I post this here, because I havent seen it before, and am only just starting to use gelatine, so my first assumption is that this is the culprit). 

No off smells, so Im sure it will be fine, but interested to see if anyone else has noticed.


----------



## hazard

Renegade said:


> Does anyone get strands of white on the surface of their beer after a few days of gelatinising ?



Er, no. Have you tasted it?


----------



## Renegade

Yep, nothing nasty to the senses. If this is not gelatine related, I should move this to another thread then I think ? Dont want to divert away from this great thread specific to fining. 

I'll see if I can get a photo too (means I'll have to engage in technology, better do so before I have too many beers)


----------



## Jye

Renegade said:


> Does anyone get strands of white on the surface of their beer after a few days of gelatinising ? I did a secondary with gel about four days ago, and there's quite a bit of it, almost like the veins you see in a slab of marble. Sitting at around 17 degrees.



Sounds like you introduced an infection with the gelatine. Might want to add a pic to one of the infection threads.

17C is also to warm, gelatine works best with the beer at around 0C.


----------



## Renegade

Thanks guys. I have moved this enquiry to a new thread here;

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...c=33865&hl=


----------



## Dilligaf

Regarding using Gelatine as finings.

Once put in the fermenter, after a few days is it then necessary to rack it to another fermenter prior to bottling rather than bottle directly out of the fermeneter with the Gelatine in it?

In other words how do u ensure you are not putting this gelatine into teh bottles?


----------



## Frag_Dog

Dilligaf said:


> Regarding using Gelatine as finings.
> 
> Once put in the fermenter, after a few days is it then necessary to rack it to another fermenter prior to bottling rather than bottle directly out of the fermeneter with the Gelatine in it?
> 
> In other words how do u ensure you are not putting this gelatine into teh bottles?




I don't bother. If you were to bulk prime I think it would be a good idea. That way you don't kick up all the yeast again, which is the whole point of using Gelatine.

Moving it off the 2nd yeast cake wouldn't achieve too much unless it was going to be a long time before you bottle. I don't think you'll end up with much Gelatine in your bottles. I guess you could run off the first 100mls if you wanted to be sure. In the bottles, once you chill the Gelatine is all going to drop to the bottom and not be drank.


----------



## RdeVjun

Hi Dilligaf,
for ales, I usually add gelatine to the primary after about 10-12 days, leave it a few more days, occasionally I'll cold crash it after that, but then transfer gently into a bottling cube on to dissolved bulk priming sugar and bottle it shortly thereafter. This method gives me clear enough ales, a fair bit of sediment but I'm not bothered by it at all and its certainly not an outrageous amount. If I used priming drops then I would probably be just bottling from primary, which is what I did way back when I started with K&K.
I seldom use a secondary vessel these days, but I'm not fussy about clarity anyway, nor a moderate amount of sediment in my house ale (a TTL-esque ESB). I am a lazy bugger though, if there's any chance to skip an operation, that's what I'll do unless there's a compelling reason for it. With fewer handling operations there's less chance of an infection being picked up, not that infections in secondary are common, but still a possibility. Same goes for oxidation of fermented wort I guess.
My 2c, FWIW... :icon_cheers:


----------



## Bribie G

The method I use with gelatine is: Ferment the beer almost right out in primary. Rack to another fermenter (I have a smaller 25L fermenter that is dedicated to this job so there is very little headspace). Chill down in fridge overnight then add the gelatine. Let that settle for a couple of days, then add Polyclar. Bottle after a further two or three days. The trick is to get the beer reasonably clear before you transfer to the 'conditioning' vessel so the finings are just polishing it up, and you can end up with almost crystal clear beer going into the bottle or keg. 
I'll trot out this old picture again, this bottle has just been filled. There are enough yeast cells lurking there to initiate bottle conditioning believe it or not:





On the other hand if the beer looks like pea soup when you rack it and if it is still a bit murky on bottling then you will end up with some gelatine in the bottles. It doesn't do you any harm (Aeroplane Jelly never killed anyone  ) but as I'm sure has been mentioned on this thread it can give the bottles 'fluffy bottoms' with loose sediment that swirls up on opening the bottle, or swirls up into the keg if it's bumped, and you've basically wasted your time fining in the first place.

Cheers


----------



## Phoney

Apologies if it's already been posted in this thread...but what's the recommended usage with lagers? ie: if im lagering @2C for 4 weeks do I add the gelatine after the first couple of days or in the final week?
Cheers


----------



## Bribie G

phoneyhuh said:


> Apologies if it's already been posted in this thread...but what's the recommended usage with lagers? ie: if im lagering @2C for 4 weeks do I add the gelatine after the first couple of days or in the final week?
> Cheers


With a 'true' lager I wouldn't bother with gelatine at all, that's why you are lagering for a month to drop all the remaining yeast and shyte out of the beer anyway. However I would add Polyclar a few days before bottling or kegging to remove any chill haze (polyphenols) in the beer.


----------



## D.lycle

Sitting here on Devachat saves me the money I would be spending down the pub....my donation is on its way.

Ta.


----------



## chadjaja

Thanks for the good read guys.

Well today I took a walk down the clear beer path as the latest two brews I have didn't have whirlflock in them and they aren't cleaning up real well.

Into the keg goes one bit of gelatine and I'll see in 48 hours.

Also transferred from primary into a jerry that is going in for the cc treatment. There I racked it on top of some gelatine and I'll see just how clear I can get the beer from cc'ing and gelatine before it even hits the keg. This English ale yeast isn't real flocculant.


----------



## Bribie G

Best of luck, I'm sure the gelatine will do the trick. Nothing wrong with adding some Polyclar even to UK ales as they do look good when nice and clear. In my previous post I said:



BribieG said:


> With a 'true' lager I wouldn't bother with gelatine at all, that's why you are lagering for a month to drop all the remaining yeast and shyte out of the beer anyway. However I would add Polyclar a few days before bottling or kegging to remove any chill haze (polyphenols) in the beer.



However since I have started using the Swiss Lager yeast S-189 I can crank out a lager from pitch to pour in 4 weeks and I have also started to use gelatine. I do what you do and rack into a cube onto some gelatine solution - I actually did my latest one about an hour ago - then into CC for 10 days, adding polyclar on day 8. Having excellent clarity.


----------



## Paul H

BribieG said:


> Best of luck, I'm sure the gelatine will do the trick. Nothing wrong with adding some Polyclar even to UK ales as they do look good when nice and clear. In my previous post I said:
> 
> 
> 
> However since I have started using the Swiss Lager yeast S-189 I can crank out a lager from pitch to pour in 4 weeks and I have also started to use gelatine. I do what you do and rack into a cube onto some gelatine solution - I actually did my latest one about an hour ago - then into CC for 10 days, adding polyclar on day 8. Having excellent clarity.



What quantities of both polyclar & gelatine do you use Bribie?

Cheers

Paul


----------



## Bribie G

Paul H said:


> What quantities of both polyclar & gelatine do you use Bribie?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Paul



Heaped teaspoon of gelatine and two heaped teaspoons of Polyclar. I stir the Polyclar for 15 minutes by swirling in a jar with about 200 ml water. Bloody PITA, I should get that stir plate built :lol:


----------



## goomboogo

Chadjaja, what yeast are you using? Is it Wyeast 1275, Thames Valley?

Bribie, there's still a few spots left in the stirplate bulk buy.


----------



## chadjaja

nah its 1028 London ale. 

And a stir plate isn't so hard to make, most of us have the stuff sitting around the house. I built mine for $10 and it stirs all sizes of starters.


----------



## Bribie G

Yup got a stirplate sitting round the house





BribieG runs for cover with large ball protector round family jewels


----------



## raven19

Back Yard Brewer said:


> The only way to go IMHO. But I tend to use 1 teaspoon in about 100ml of warm water.



First time I have bothered using Gelatine, after discussion with Dr S. I just went with BYB's method for the Kolsch in secondary.

Its tasty outta the primary, looking forward to enjoying a pint or three of this beer. :icon_cheers:


----------



## Screwtop

Following what UK brewers do I have been using beer instead of water with gelatine for near enough to 12 months. No diff, works well, what I like is that I'm not adding water to the beer. Just drain off 100ml to get rid on the yeast in the tap, then slowly drain off the beer into a pyrex jug. Add the gelatine and leave for 5 min to hydrate then mix and into the microwave for 10 min at 20% power for 10 min. Add to keg then rack the beer to the keg.

Screwy


----------



## Bribie G

Good call Screwy, as it happens I just gelatined about half an hour ago while I put a brew into cold conditioning and actually thought "well this has diluted the brew just a tad, and when I Polyclar in a few days time that's going to dilute it a tad more"

I'll do the beer thing next time. I wonder if that would work with the Polyclar as well?

Thanks for the tip.


----------



## Screwtop

BribieG said:


> Good call Screwy, as it happens I just gelatined about half an hour ago while I put a brew into cold conditioning and actually thought "well this has diluted the brew just a tad, and when I Polyclar in a few days time that's going to dilute it a tad more"
> 
> I'll do the beer thing next time. I wonder if that would work with the Polyclar as well?
> 
> Thanks for the tip.




LATB...........it depends. If you put it on the stirplate for an hour you might be adding oxidised beer to your keg.

Cheers,

Screwy


----------



## Phoney

.....As opposed to oxidised water, it would do the same thing would it not?


When you say microwave @ 20% power, would this be equal to the 'defrost' setting, or 'low', as it is on mine?


----------



## Screwtop

phoneyhuh said:


> .....As opposed to oxidised water, it would do the same thing would it not?
> 
> 
> When you say microwave @ 20% power, would this be equal to the 'defrost' setting, or 'low', as it is on mine?



From memory, (been a while since I've used polyclar) water used with polyclar is cool! Info abounds re oxygen retention in hot liquid (search).

Test your microwave, after say 5 min at defrost/low check the temp of the liquid, above 80C is what you want for pasteurisation, but not to the point of boiling over. Adjust power setting on yours to suit. Our old M'wave required power setting 1, current one requires 20% power. 

Hope this helps.

Screwy


----------



## dr K

gelatine works well but what works better, and is this:
get your still beer really cold in the keg
add your gelatine
pump the pressure up to MAX
hold for 12 - 18 hours , too short it will not work, too long it may overcarbonate the beer.
slowly bleed the pressure (you need a regulator, just popping the PRV leads to tears before bedtime)
carbonate as usual (unless usual is the keg shake rattle 'n roll method)
the huge pressure along with the binding action of the gelatine forces the crud to the bottom..voila, clear beer quickly without filtering.

K


----------



## dr K

> .....As opposed to oxidised water, it would do the same thing would it not?



So, we are talking (hydrogen) peroxide here?

K


----------



## BjornJ

Polyclar and isinglass.... AAAARRRGGGHHH.

I think I need lessons in this stuff..

After some annoyance from never getting clear beer, and re-reading some threads here and some general Googling, this time I went a bit overboard..

Today I bottled an AG that was brewed a month ago. 2 weeks in primary, 1 week in secondary (all at 17 degrees) before crash chill to 1 degree for a week. 
Then 15 ml of Isinglass rather than the 10 that is suggested on the bottle stirred in 2.5 dl of beer from the cube and shook the cube quite a bit.
Then 15 gr of Polyclar (not 5-10 as suggested on the bag) hydrated in boiled, slightly cooled water for 1 hour (just shook it, small bottle with little headspace), then added this one day later than the isinglass and stirred quite a bit with a sanitized spoon.


Today I bottled murky beer (again..).

There is yeast sediment in the cube, so something has fallen out, but clearly not enough. The beer is NOT like in BribieG's Regal Coke bottle, that's for sure..

What am I doing wrong here...?

Bjorn


----------



## Pete2501

The last time I used fish guts my beer was super clear. I just left it in the primary for a couple days or so then bottled my beer. 

I'm using the fish guts for the second time to see what happens so fingers crossed my APA doesn't have excess yeast sediment.


----------



## samhighley

dr K said:


> the huge pressure along with the binding action of the gelatine forces the crud to the bottom..voila, clear beer quickly without filtering.



That's interesting that you say that. I've always thought that I got clearer beer if I gelatined at the same time that I force carbonated. I always assumed that it was because the action of bubbling gas in through the beer-out post gave the beer and gelatine a really good mix. Your explanation sounds better.


----------



## Batz

The only time I gelatined was way back in K&K days. I added the gelatine to a cold keg and it turned into little globules, these plugged up my pick up tube :angry: Do you guys allow your beer to warm up before adding ?

I must say that Tidalpete does gelatine, I don't know of his procedure but I'm impressed by the clarity of his beers. 

Batz


----------



## fraser_john

Batz said:


> Do you guys allow your beer to warm up before adding ?



I do not, I put gelatine in hot/verywarm into a keg of beer at 1c. Leave for 2-3 days and its crystal, it does not glob up but forms a kind of layer at the bottom of the keg. THe first few beers normally blow that clear or I then rack to a clean serving keg.


----------



## zabond

I just crash chill primary to 1* for 2 days transf to secondry add 1 tbl spoon gel to 150ml warm 65* water stir 5min add to secnd ferm keep at 1* 2 more days rack into keg,force carb & drink,never had a cloudy beer yet


----------



## davewaldo

BjornJ said:


> Polyclar and isinglass.... AAAARRRGGGHHH.
> 
> I think I need lessons in this stuff..
> 
> After some annoyance from never getting clear beer, and re-reading some threads here and some general Googling, this time I went a bit overboard..
> 
> Today I bottled an AG that was brewed a month ago. 2 weeks in primary, 1 week in secondary (all at 17 degrees) before crash chill to 1 degree for a week.
> Then 15 ml of Isinglass rather than the 10 that is suggested on the bottle stirred in 2.5 dl of beer from the cube and shook the cube quite a bit.
> Then 15 gr of Polyclar (not 5-10 as suggested on the bag) hydrated in boiled, slightly cooled water for 1 hour (just shook it, small bottle with little headspace), then added this one day later than the isinglass and stirred quite a bit with a sanitized spoon.
> 
> 
> Today I bottled murky beer (again..).
> 
> There is yeast sediment in the cube, so something has fallen out, but clearly not enough. The beer is NOT like in BribieG's Regal Coke bottle, that's for sure..
> 
> What am I doing wrong here...?
> 
> Bjorn




I'm not sure whats going wrong for you there Bjorn. Do you let everything warm up before bottling? If so this will mix everything up again. I find once I have cold crashed, gelatined and polyclared that I need to rack off the sediment while still at 2 degrees into a bottling bucket. By doing this I can bottle beer as clear at Bribie's Coke bottle photo.

If you are racking when still cold, have you ever looked into the fermenter before you start bottling? Is it clear at this stage?

Hopefully you can get this sorted out as its great bottling clear beer and having minimal sediment in a beer.

Dave.


----------



## Screwtop

dr K said:


> gelatine works well but what works better, and is this:
> get your still beer really cold in the keg
> add your gelatine
> pump the pressure up to MAX
> hold for 12 - 18 hours , too short it will not work, too long it may overcarbonate the beer.
> slowly bleed the pressure (you need a regulator, just popping the PRV leads to tears before bedtime)
> carbonate as usual (unless usual is the keg shake rattle 'n roll method)
> the huge pressure along with the binding action of the gelatine forces the crud to the bottom..voila, clear beer quickly without filtering.
> 
> K




Has always worked well for me. K, thats pretty much my regime. I don't force carb by way of the so called Ross method any more, haven't done so for maybe 18 months. Hot gelatine-beer mix into keg, rack cold beer (1 or 2C) from the fermenter into the keg. Hit with Co2 and purge to reduce air in headspace, then pressurise to 300 Kpa and put in conditioning fridge/freezer. Each day for the next few days I give it a 300 Kpa burst, until the pressure in the keg reads around 100 Kpa when I connect the gas. Then the keg is left conditioning until required for serving when it is put in the keggerator and connected to gas at serving pressure.


Bjorn, thought polyclar was meant to be filtered out of the beer........well that was how I used to do it.

Cheers,

Screwy


----------



## BjornJ

davewaldo said:


> I'm not sure whats going wrong for you there Bjorn. Do you let everything warm up before bottling? If so this will mix everything up again. I find once I have cold crashed, gelatined and polyclared that I need to rack off the sediment while still at 2 degrees into a bottling bucket. By doing this I can bottle beer as clear at Bribie's Coke bottle photo.
> 
> If you are racking when still cold, have you ever looked into the fermenter before you start bottling? Is it clear at this stage?
> 
> Hopefully you can get this sorted out as its great bottling clear beer and having minimal sediment in a beer.
> 
> Dave.





I've started bottling cold beer, so it's straight out of the fridge set at 1 degree, filtered then bottled, so still cold at that stage.
Since I wait until primary fermentation is over before racking to a cube, then leaving another week to give the yeast plenty of time to do any late work, I assume I don't need to allow back up to room temperature before bottling as there is no fermentation going on the week of crash chilling.

Made another beer yesterday and noticed that the trub from around the tap on my Birko 40 litre urn is being sucked into the tap.. The part of the kettle around the tap is clean, the rest of the bottom of the urn has several cm of trub/hot/cold break material... Maybe I am sucking to much of this into the fermenter to get clear beer?

So this time I even filtered the beer with 1 micron filter and not clear. But I have read several places (on here) people saying I can bottle without filtering out the Polyclar as long as I leave the fermenter in cold storage for a day or two before bottling,


thanks
Bjorn


----------



## raven19

BjornJ said:


> Made another beer yesterday and noticed that the trub from around the tap on my Birko 40 litre urn is being sucked into the tap.. The part of the kettle around the tap is clean, the rest of the bottom of the urn has several cm of trub/hot/cold break material... Maybe I am sucking to much of this into the fermenter to get clear beer?



This break material will settle out in the primary fermentation vessel, hence it should not present an issue for beer clarity.

My no chill cubes have heaps of break in them and it always settles out in the fermentor, never making it to secondary.


----------



## MattC

The results speak for themselves. This is the same beer, an American Amber Ale - double batch. Filled two kegs, both dry hopped for 7 days in the keg, then gelatine added to 1 keg only to see the difference. Gelatine was added to beer on right, in case you couldnt tell. Click on pic to enlarge and the results look more obvious.

Just wondering now if I really needed to spend that $100+ on my beer filter ???????

Cheers


----------



## Cube

Looks good. Gelatine is great stuff. Try using it with polyclar.... fantastic.


----------



## Fourstar

MattC said:


> The results speak for themselves. This is the same beer, an American Amber Ale - double batch. Filled two kegs, both dry hopped for 7 days in the keg, then gelatine added to 1 keg only to see the difference. Gelatine was added to beer on right, in case you couldnt tell. Click on pic to enlarge and the results look more obvious.
> Just wondering now if I really needed to spend that $100+ on my beer filter ???????
> Cheers



If you want it even brighter... yes!

I did it to a gelatined beer and it was even brighter and the flavour results spoke for themselves there too, I was really surpised. (sorry not the best photos.)

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...st&p=538112


----------



## Aus_Rider_22

Just had a go at my first gelatine attempt. Poured 2 lots of Mckenzies gelatine and boiled water into my 2 fermentors. They have been CC'ing for 3 days and samples are the usual hazy look. I will leave them CC'ing with the added gelatine for 48hrs and check on wednesday. I will report back as to how much difference its made.


----------



## jzani

Don't know if this has already been covered, but can't face trawling through 167 replies.

Brewing a Mexican Lager which I racked onto a cup of gelatine as described here. I did use boiling water, however, to dissolve the gelatine. Anyway, after 3 days I added some lemon and lime juice mixed with priming sugar (sterilised), gave it an hour or so, then bottled.

Three weeks later when I cracked my first bottle, there is a distinct taste of gelatine in the brew :icon_vomit: . I've tried crash chilling etc, and the brew is nice and clear, but just has the distinct gelatine taste. Anybody else had this problem, and is there any hope to rescue my 23 litres?

Any help and advice much appreciated.

Juz


----------



## Frank

juzzy said:


> Don't know if this has already been covered, but can't face trawling through 167 replies.
> 
> Brewing a Mexican Lager which I racked onto a cup of gelatine as described here. I did use boiling water, however, to dissolve the gelatine. Anyway, after 3 days I added some lemon and lime juice mixed with priming sugar (sterilised), gave it an hour or so, then bottled.
> 
> Three weeks later when I cracked my first bottle, there is a distinct taste of gelatine in the brew :icon_vomit: . I've tried crash chilling etc, and the brew is nice and clear, but just has the distinct gelatine taste. Anybody else had this problem, and is there any hope to rescue my 23 litres?
> 
> Any help and advice much appreciated.
> 
> Juz


So what flavours are you picking up? Are you sure you are not tasting the lemon and lime?


----------



## jzani

Boston said:


> So what flavours are you picking up? Are you sure you are not tasting the lemon and lime?



Any lemon and lime is overpowered by the gelatine flavour.


----------



## davewaldo

You say a cup of gelatine? Do you mean a cup of gelatine dissolved or a cup containing say 1-2 teaspoons of gelatine?


----------



## Wolfy

juzzy said:


> Brewing a Mexican Lager which I racked onto a cup of gelatine as described here.


Did you use a teaspoons (or two) of gelatin disolved in about a cup of water as described here, or did you use 1 cup of gelatin powder?
One (or two) spoons of gelatin should clump together and fall to the bottom (pulling yeast and other stuff with it) and then be removed from the beer when you rack, keg or bottle. There should be no gelatin in the end product and no gelatin taste at all.


----------



## jzani

Wolfy said:


> Did you use a teaspoons (or two) of gelatin disolved in about a cup of water as described here, or did you use 1 cup of gelatin powder?
> One (or two) spoons of gelatin should clump together and fall to the bottom (pulling yeast and other stuff with it) and then be removed from the beer when you rack, keg or bottle. There should be no gelatin in the end product and no gelatin taste at all.


I can understand how the post isn't clear on that, but yes, I only used 1 teaspoon of gelatine powder in 1 cup of boiling water, otherwise, I wouldn't be quite so confused about how strong the taste is!


----------



## juzz1981

Hmmm, cant say i've ever problems using even 2 teaspoons of Gelatin.


----------



## Frank

juzzy said:


> I can understand how the post isn't clear on that, but yes, I only used 1 teaspoon of gelatine powder in 1 cup of boiling water, otherwise, I wouldn't be quite so confused about how strong the taste is!


What is your brand of Gelatine? Some people have said that they have had a slight meaty flavour from some different brands. Is it a meaty character? Can you give it any other description?


----------



## Bribie G

Some people are just very sensitive to the taste of gelatine, I used to work for Allens sweets and toured the Sydney factory and know what goes into some brands of confectionery. A lot of "compressed tablet" lollies of the lifesavers type actually contain gelatine, and I can pick it up in buckets when sucking a XXX Extra Strong Mint. They are made in New Zealand and maybe their gelatine is more 'rough' than ours. But I can't say I've ever noticed it in beer. Next time try isinglass and see if it's different. Hopefully not fishy


----------



## jzani

BribieG said:


> Some people are just very sensitive to the taste of gelatine, I used to work for Allens sweets and toured the Sydney factory and know what goes into some brands of confectionery. A lot of "compressed tablet" lollies of the lifesavers type actually contain gelatine, and I can pick it up in buckets when sucking a XXX Extra Strong Mint. They are made in New Zealand and maybe their gelatine is more 'rough' than ours. But I can't say I've ever noticed it in beer. Next time try isinglass and see if it's different. Hopefully not fishy



Guess I'll have to hold out for the hope that it will settle over time. :unsure:


----------



## Nick JD

juzzy said:


> Guess I'll have to hold out for the hope that it will settle over time. :unsure:



There might be some other stuff in your gelatine that's given it a "taste". There's almost no chance that the gelatine was still floating in the beer when you bottled it. 

How long was the gelatine in the brew before you bottled? If your bottles are carbed up then the geletine should be at the bottom and left behind in the sediment even if you did manage to get it into the bottles. 

I'm not sure I'd be able to taste 1tsp of _anything_ in 23L - except maybe a tsp of chilli, or garlic...


----------



## jzani

Nick JD said:


> I'm not sure I'd be able to taste 1tsp of _anything_ in 23L - except maybe a tsp of chilli, or garlic...



I would agree with you, but for the fact that I have 23L of Mexican Cervesa that taste like gelatine.


----------



## jakub76

maybe it's detergent that you're tasting


----------



## weiht

Hi there, 

I keg and lagered my beer for 1mth with gelatin. Not knowing that the gelatin doesnt set at the bottom and will be suspended again, i forced carb the beer with shaking. After 4 days, i emptied 3 pints to clear the gelatin, but its still a little cloudy with gelatin sediments still floating around.

Is there any way to remedy the gelatin being suspended and causing a cloudy beer again? Will it eventually settle if left alone?


----------



## michaelcocks

weiht said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I keg and lagered my beer for 1mth with gelatin. Not knowing that the gelatin doesnt set at the bottom and will be suspended again, i forced carb the beer with shaking. After 4 days, i emptied 3 pints to clear the gelatin, but its still a little cloudy with gelatin sediments still floating around.
> 
> Is there any way to remedy the gelatin being suspended and causing a cloudy beer again? Will it eventually settle if left alone?



leave it for another two weeks


----------



## rendo

Juz,

What brand of Gelatin did you use? Davis? Mackenzie? Please let us know! I have used both. any have opinions on them, but will wait for you to let me know what you used.. 

Got my fingers crossed for you mate, hoping the taste will subside.

Rendo



juzzy said:


> Don't know if this has already been covered, but can't face trawling through 167 replies.
> 
> Brewing a Mexican Lager which I racked onto a cup of gelatine as described here. I did use boiling water, however, to dissolve the gelatine. Anyway, after 3 days I added some lemon and lime juice mixed with priming sugar (sterilised), gave it an hour or so, then bottled.
> 
> Three weeks later when I cracked my first bottle, there is a distinct taste of gelatine in the brew :icon_vomit: . I've tried crash chilling etc, and the brew is nice and clear, but just has the distinct gelatine taste. Anybody else had this problem, and is there any hope to rescue my 23 litres?
> 
> Any help and advice much appreciated.
> 
> Juz


----------



## Bribie G

weiht said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I keg and lagered my beer for 1mth with gelatin. Not knowing that the gelatin doesnt set at the bottom and will be suspended again, i forced carb the beer with shaking. After 4 days, i emptied 3 pints to clear the gelatin, but its still a little cloudy with gelatin sediments still floating around.
> 
> Is there any way to remedy the gelatin being suspended and causing a cloudy beer again? Will it eventually settle if left alone?



I may have posted this already, but for future reference I wouldn't let gelatine anywhere near your kegs or bottles, just use it at the beginning of cold crash / lagering and leave for at least a week to settle out, then transfer the clear beer to keg or bottle. After also using Polyclar if necessary.


----------



## altstart

I have been using Gelatine in the fermenter after crash chilling and am thinking of trying Agar instead. Has any one tried this and if so does it work?.
Cheers Altstart


----------



## mje1980

BribieG said:


> I may have posted this already, but for future reference I wouldn't let gelatine anywhere near your kegs or bottles, just use it at the beginning of cold crash / lagering and leave for at least a week to settle out, then transfer the clear beer to keg or bottle. After also using Polyclar if necessary.




Why not bribie?? Does it affect the keg??. I dont secondary, i just chill, then rack to the keg. I've tried gelatin and been happy with it, but im gunna try it in the keg.


----------



## muckey

mje1980 said:


> Why not bribie?? Does it affect the keg??. I dont secondary, i just chill, then rack to the keg. I've tried gelatin and been happy with it, but im gunna try it in the keg.



you end up with all the crap in the bottom of the keg. first pour is, shall we say - interesting. If there is too much in there it makes cleaning your keg a very time consuming exercise after you finish drinking it. other than that, gelatine works a treat when used in the right quantities..

and in reply to another poster, I've heard lots of people talk about using agar but haven't heard of anybody's results. that said - I dont know of any reason why it wouldnt be aseffective as gelatine. Like everything, it's a matter of getting the dosage correct and unless someone can post their results, I'd start with the equivalent of gelatine and see how it goes

hope that helps


----------



## RdeVjun

Muckey & altstart, I'll put my hand up and try agar next time. It is more expensive than gelatine, at least where I've bought it (local Asian grocer), maybe that's one reason it isn't popular but I have some on hand for slanting anyway.

I guess agar needs a brief boil though to dissolve it properly, gelatine seems to be best dissolved in water just off the boil but that doesn't seem to work as well with agar- I tried that for slants before pouring them, much of it remained undissolved.


----------



## altstart

RdeVjun said:


> Muckey & altstart, I'll put my hand up and try agar next time. It is more expensive than gelatine, at least where I've bought it (local Asian grocer), maybe that's one reason it isn't popular but I have some on hand for slanting anyway.
> 
> I guess agar needs a brief boil though to dissolve it properly, gelatine seems to be best dissolved in water just off the boil but that doesn't seem to work as well with agar- I tried that for slants before pouring them, much of it remained undissolved.



I have used Agar for slants and I agree it needs to be boiled to get it to dissolve properly. Boiling Agar Does not seem to denature it unlike Gelatin which is pretty useless after being boiled. I cant see why it wont work and the thought of useing a vegatable protein based product instead of animal hooves to clear my beer is more appealing to me. I have a beer in the fermenter and I think I will also give it a go

Cheers Altstart


----------



## mwd

Does Gelatine have any effect on fermenting yeast.?

My latest Toucan is still fermenting very slowly US05 S.G. 1.020 yesterday.
It is a bit of a Peasouper with all the hop boilings and dryhops in the Primary.

I was hoping to add gelatine to help clear it up some just before it reaches FG so that it will be fairly clean and clear come bottling time.


----------



## Wolfy

Tropical_Brews said:


> Does Gelatine have any effect on fermenting yeast.?
> ...
> I was hoping to add gelatine to help clear it up some just before it reaches FG so that it will be fairly clean and clear come bottling time.


Yes, but don't use it before you reach the FG.
Add the gelatine (and if possible crash-chill) AFTER you reach the final gravity, let the yeast settle out, and then after a few more days bottle it.


----------



## manticle

Something I'd like to question in the original article and that people have often mentioned.

People/the article talk/s about denaturing gelatin and how this will defstroy the fining ability. Gelatin, much like any other protein, will denature much aboe 40 degrees. Denaturing is in fact responsible for its ability to dissolve in water which is necessary for use. I regularly dd boiling water to my gelatin (dissolves easier when water added to gelatin rather than other way around) - no blooming, no cooling of the water. I get the same results I used to get when I let the water cool before adding. Add too cold or let cool too much and you get Jelly.

Where does the 75 degrees idea come from? Is there a reference for this or is it a perpetuated HB myth?


----------



## Brewman_

Manticle,
I don't know where the temperatures come from, maybe they are best practice.

I know I used to prepare Isinglass in hot water 70 Deg.C, it worked absoluely fantastic, dropped everything including chill haze when the fermenter was at 0 Deg.C. I since found out it is supposed to be prepared cool or even cold.

All I can say is that it worked well prepared hot. In fact I could not say that there was any obvious room for improvement on what results I was getting.

Fear_n_loath


----------



## Screwtop

manticle said:


> Where does the 75 degrees idea come from? Is there a reference for this or is it a perpetuated HB myth?




Maybe from some cranky old bastards method of using it. I add gelatine to beer in a pyrex jug, leave to hydrate for 5 min, stir to mix then wait another 5 min. Stir then place in microwave at power setting 2 for 10 min which heats it and holds the temp at around 85 (using my microwave on 20% power setting). The reason I do this is to pasteurise the gelatine/beer solution before adding it to the keg, beer is then racked from fermenter to keg.

Screwy


----------



## manticle

I tend to listen to cranky old bastards although in this case I might continue with current practice.


----------



## Acasta

will it be ok to add the gelatine when racking but not finished fermenting? Its in the 1.020 and will finish 1.015-1.010 and im going to rack it soon.


----------



## bum

Gelatine knocks the yeast out of suspension, Acasta.


----------



## manticle

Acasta said:


> will it be ok to add the gelatine when racking but not finished fermenting? Its in the 1.020 and will finish 1.015-1.010 and im going to rack it soon.



As bum suggests you will be working against yourself. Wait until primary has finished, then wait a bit more then chill the brew then add the gelatin.


----------



## Acasta

ahh kk, if i don't chill the brew will it still work? Im currently getting together some temp stuff.


----------



## manticle

Will work - optimum is when the brew is chilled. Considering the nightime weather in Melbourne at the moment though, you could put it in an ice bath overnight then leave it outside to condition a bit.

I only have space in the fridge for one fermenter but have been running up to 6 fermenting vessels at the moment. During winter it's as cold in my laundry as it is in my fridge.


----------



## Acasta

thats a great idea! haha. I used to brew in the laundry but then i realized it was too cold.


----------



## jakester

Has anyone added the gelatine after carbing in the keg? I was hoping it would have cleared a little by now but hasnt. I done my first Kolsch using the liquid wyeast and wish i read this thread before i had made it. Will make another one soon and definately gelatine the secondary so i can see what the difference is like.
So is it too late? Or can i add some gelatine now and see how it goes?


----------



## herbo

Ivesy said:


> Has anyone added the gelatine after carbing in the keg? I was hoping it would have cleared a little by now but hasnt. I done my first Kolsch using the liquid wyeast and wish i read this thread before i had made it. Will make another one soon and definately gelatine the secondary so i can see what the difference is like.
> So is it too late? Or can i add some gelatine now and see how it goes?



Ha, just posted the same query in the other current gelatine thread. Beat you by 2 mins!


----------



## Thirsty Boy

YES

You can gelatin a keg that's already carbed. I like to pop the pressure relief valve on the keg to vent the pressure, then I use a syringe body to inject the gelatin through the gas in post. That means I don't have to open the keg and expose it to potential infection or oxygen.

Come to think of it.. You could probably just screw the pressure relief valve out a inject it into there... Much the same effect and easier.

Gelatin in, wait a week, suck out a glass or so of murk and then pour clear beer.


----------



## jakester

herbo said:


> Ha, just posted the same query in the other current gelatine thread. Beat you by 2 mins!



Well i hope we get the same answers then Herbo, will have to look for your post.
And thanks Thirsty, will give it a run on the weekend when i get some spare time. Cant wait to taste and see the results.


----------



## drtomc

After a comment elsewhere by TB about using finings with the Wyeast Kolsch strain, I thought I'd better read this thread, having not used anything but time to brighten by beers. Since I don't have a fridge I can crash chill my beers in, I was particularly interested in the non-fridge angle.

Which brings me to an observation about agar. If you read this page about agar, they note that it is asymmetric in its melting and solidifying temperatures: it melts at 85C and solidifies round 32-40C. The latter is interesting because that's a much higher temperature than gelatine sets at, um, something less than typical room temperature.

It strikes me that this could go either way in terms of its usefulness as a fining agent. If could mean that it solidifies too quickly and neither compacts nor pulls out as much crap, or that especially in the fridgeless case, it is particularly effective because it will be in its solidified phase, well and truly.

From what 4* mentioned earlier in the thread, it sounds like the latter is probably the case.

I guess I'll try agar, then. Especially good, since I have numerous vego and vegan friends. 

T.


----------



## itguy1953

There is talk in this thread re first adding the gelatine, then leaving to clear hops and yeast, then adding Polyglar and leaving to settle and clear chill haze.

Has anyone tried using Gelatine and Polyglar at the same time in a chill primary or secondary beofre racking to a keg or bottling?

Barry


----------



## manticle

I used to add at the same time but got better results with gelatine first, then polyclar.

I'm currently not fining my beers at all (except kettle finings but that's separate)


----------



## itguy1953

manticle said:


> I used to add at the same time but got better results with gelatine first, then polyclar.
> 
> I'm currently not fining my beers at all (except kettle finings but that's separate)



Adding to the primary, secondary or keg?


----------



## manticle

Back then it would have been secondary. At the moment I'm not using secondary at all except for ageing particular beer but I'm also not fining at the moment.

CC and rack to bulk prime currently.

I don't keg.


----------



## seanokil

OK i have read nealy all this thread im still a little confused . This is the way im thinking. 
I have no secondary to rack to YET.
So i wait till fg is stable mix 2 teaspoons of gelatne into a cup of hot water and pour over my brew.
I have a fridge but its a little dodgy atm to crash chill so i am goin to turn it off and put the primary into it should be stable 5-10 degrees.
Then wait 3-4 days and bottle.
Any hints would be much appreciated
Cheers 
Seano


----------



## Fents

2 teaspoons is too much imo. i only use 1 teaspoon in about 100ml of water.


----------



## Supra-Jim

Yeah, 1tsp into 100mls seems to be the way to go.

Did it for the first time this weekend, and even after 24hrs the beer was a lot clearer. (1tsp + 100mls of water into the keg prior to filling as per Dr Fents prescription)

Cheers SJ


----------



## chiroman11

I'm with you Seano. I was thinking of doing exactly what you described, but I'm not sure either.

does anyone have a comment for Seano's method?

cheers


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Necro alert.

Few caveats to start:

I have read the full 11 pages, but I have a nasty cold with an even nastier sinus-headache, so if I've missed something, hold the flames. And if I ramble as well.

Don't want crystal clear beer, a la BribieG's coke bottle. Just something bearable.

Kegged on Friday (IIRC) after CCing and racking my beer (s189 after a failed Notto, so no a 'non floc' strain) for 3 days (and the loose flowers trapped most of the yeast).

Poured about a pint of crap on Saturday. Heavy, yeast nastiness. Barely drinkable.

Poured another pint today. Crap, but probably a little less crap. Didn't drink it all, just tasted it, as I wanted to see if it improved.

Got frustrated (another by product of my cold), and gelatined in the keg. I've only done this once before with a BB with Windsor (far less flocculent strain).

I'll leave this for 4 days or so (I don't like drinking when I'm sick, unless it's medicinal brandy).

I'll pour the inevitable pint of crap from the bottom on Friday and get pretty clear beer after that.

But - this is a backup keg for a poker party (I probably "tested" about 5L out of a Belgian). I should have enough of the Belgian, but kind of wanted to offer another type of beer. It's my stupid fault for being talked into supplying a little beer, without getting my stocks back up first.

This keg will need to be moved to my mate's place for serving. That will stir up the keg. As I mentioned, I don't need crystal clear beer, just not the yeasty nasty crap that were in it.

Question is - if I've gelatined and let it sit for those 4 days and poured the requisite pint o' crap, and I then move it - will I go back to pouring yeastiness? Or will the gelatin, plus the clearing of the pint o'crap, be enough to clear the majority of the nastiness from the keg, and I just end up with not that clear beer, but perfectly drinkable?

Over to you all.

Goomba


----------



## iralosavic

If the gelatin doesn't bloom when rested is this indicative of anything? I recently added 2tsp in 200ml to a chilled keg, got a few chunks in the first pour 24 hours later, but the clarity hasn't improved at all. Cheers


----------



## Dazza88

No kegging gelatine experience but I would guess that if you got it to the stage where it was pouring clear at home after the gelatine treatment because you pulled some sludgy pints full of gelatine-yeast crap, most of the sludge will be removed and it will be ok for the party, not much to resuspend into solution etc.

I just gelatined last brew in the fermenter for 36 hrs (less than optimal), probably CC'd for 5 days in total, the beer was clear in the fermenter (10L blue cube small batch). I suppose you should be reviewing if your brew in clear in the keg? How long do you CC in fermenter for?


I kegged by racking, and accidently picked up some sludge trying to get every last bit. The beer out of the keg was dirty; yeast haze and some hop material. Drinkable but unpleasant yeastiness. Four days later its clear (and tasting very good, SWMBO agrees) so the gunk did drop out with time and me spending the weekend away from the keg. This was 1272 yeast in a dry hopped pale ale. IIRC i have had success with s-189 being clear from the keg as well. My Landlord with 1469 never cleared properly for me unfortunately, but i think i rushed that one with CCing etc. 3787 took ages, months even, must hook it up and see what's happening

I think it would help if you could get the beer to your mates a day before the party to settle out again, if possible.

IRA: Did you dissolve into hot liquid first? 

Found this off a cooking website, :

*Hydrating Gelatin* (blooming?)
Powdered gelatin
1. For the equivalent of each 30 g of gelatin, place it in 125 ml of cold water ( cup). 2. Allow the gelatin to hydrate for about 5 minutes.
3. Dissolve by pouring the gelatin and cold water into one litre of hot/boiled water.
Leaf gelatin
1. Place the leaves individually in cold water and allow them to swell for about 5 minutes.
2. Remove them and gently squeeze them out.
3. Proceed to dissolve the gelatin in hot/boiled water.

*Dissolving Gelatin to Form a Gel Solution* - I just do this? straight into 70C water. 
To achieve easy blending with ingredients, gelatin must be dissolved in hot water to form a concentrated gel solution. The gel solution will dilute when added to liquids in a recipe.
1. Measure amount of hot water into a measuring jug.
2. Measure required quantity of gelatin and, for speedy absorption, add it immediately to the hot liquid.
3. Briskly beat the hot liquid with a fork or wire whisk.
4. When all the gelatin has been absorbed, the hot gel solution will be a clear golden liquid ready for use.


*Retaining a Gel Solution*
If a recipe is extensive, requiring retention of the solution for a period of time, stand the solution in a bowl of warm water. This procedure can also be used to re-liquefy the solution if it sets before time.


----------



## iralosavic

Not all the gelatin gunk will be poured out in the first pint - some of it settles further back from the pick up tube. When you disturb the keg, it resettles under the pick up again. Setting it up (refrigerated) 24 hours before you plan to serve is sound advice. If you'd care to take advice from someone whose gelatin doesnt work haha


----------



## Glot

How does Irish Moss compare?


----------



## sponge

Thirsty Boy said:


> Gelatin in, wait a week, suck out a glass or so of murk and then pour clear beer.


Just curious about this comment TB. I'm not sure where I read this, but I've always been of the understanding that leaving gelatine in for such a long period of time can introduce unwanted flavours?

I've always added the gelatine and let it sit for 48hrs at around 1'C, but can't think of where I might have read that prolonged periods of gelatine was not good practice..

If a brewer as experienced as TB leaves his brew with gelatine for a week, I think I may just have to do the same. There have been some occasions where I haven't added gelatine as I might have been away for work during the week and didn't want to leave it the 5 days (since I've had to start fermenting a new beer on the weekend I get back), but it's sounding like I may have been worrying about nothing..


----------



## Roosterboy

Just thought I would add this.....many years ago i worked at Davis Gelatine at Botany, i left a year before they went broke. They put in a new process, spent millions on it and it produced lower quality gelatin ! Anyway we made a product called Liquifine, a highly concentrated solution of non-gelling hydrolyzed gelatin preserved with SO2 , allowed in wine and sold to the wine industry. This is a liquid gelatin .There is a paper on it by C.G.B.Cole" The use of gelatin in wine fining."
He found it was great for clarification of wines but had been shown possibly to lead to protein instability. I don't know if anyone used it in beer brewing.

Remember that gelatin comes from beef hide and is a an excellent nutrient for most forms of microbiological life. I don't know if this could promote bacterial growth in
beers. I don't known if breweries use it, if they do they would then pasteurize the beer I guess. That's about all I remember from my time there in regard to brewing beer.
Roosterboy


----------



## stakka82

Re: leaving gelatine on beers for a while - my process is while kegging add gelatine to the keg, you can force carb and drink straight away, or wait a week... either way the gunk comes out, over a greater or lesser number of glasses is the only difference.

Traces of gelatine would presumably linger in the keg for the beer's lifespan, but I've not noticed any ill effects over months of a gelatined keg.


----------



## Piggy

Do we have a method for adding GELATINE? I'm gonna put it in my keg, comments anyone?


----------



## Bribie G

Yup 12 pages of it.

Gelatine works well in the keg provided you don't rock or disturb the keg afterwards, as gelatine tends to produce a "fluffy bottom" in the keg or bottle that rises up as soon as you look at it.


----------



## ivars

I don't have much brewing experience and have used gelatin for the first time in a dubbel. I thought the beer had fermented out, had no bubbles in the airlock so chilled to 9 deg C and added gelatin. I started to get bubbles in the airlock again and that was 8 days ago - the beer is still in the primary. The SG is not changing. Does anyone have any ideas about what is going on? I understand that it is not a good idea to leave the beer on the gelatin for much time but I don't know what to do. Should I rack it off the trub/gelatin, bottle, drop the temperature or leave it alone until the bubbles stop? :huh:


----------



## manticle

Bubbles just mean carbon dioxide is coming out of solution. There can be residual co2 following fermentation. Gravity is really what you should be going on - if it isn't changing and you're confident it's within the expected region, you should be safe to bottle.

What was the gravity at finish and what were you expecting it to be? Expectation should be based on ingredients, mash schedule (if mashing) yeast type, yeast amount and yeast health and fermentation schedule.


----------



## ivars

According to BeerSmith the estimated FG was 1.012 and mine is 1.011 which is what it has been on the two previous occasions when I have done this recipe more or less the same way.


----------



## manticle

I'd say you're pretty safe.


----------



## ivars

Cheers manticle really appreciate the advice. Bottling tomorrow.


----------



## waggastew

Anyone else had problems with gelatine stripping out hop aroma? There are some mentions about the topic but most have not noticed a drop?

My latest tweak of my AIPA is lacking its usual aroma. Have been thinking extra dry hop, more late additions etc but then had a brain flash. This is the first time I have gelatined this beer. Will not gelatine the next batch to see if this is the culprit.


----------



## Pogierob

I used gelatine for the first time in my kegs and had two awesomely clear beers in day two. 

Very happy, thanks Weizgei for the tip, and thanks for this thread!!!


----------



## rglnz

Most of the advice here is for guys that are kegging their beer. Im a bit of an amateur, and just ferment, then rack into a bottling bucket to bulk prime, then bottle. I have never used anything for clearing my beer, but I want to give it a go for my next brew. Is it necessary to use a secondary fermenter to use gelatine? or can I simply add it in at a certain stage to my primary, then when its time to bottle, rack to bottling bucket for bulk priming and then bottle straight away. Open to other suggestions, I just havent experiemented much as I dont want to screw up my brews!

Cheers


----------



## Black n Tan

It is perfectly fine to add gelatine to the primary and that is exactly what I do. I first cool my wort to 0C then add gelain and leave for 2-3 days before kegging. Same would apply to bottling.


----------



## professional_drunk

Wish I could gelatin my beer. I've got Hindus drinking it.


----------



## wereprawn

professional_drunk said:


> Wish I could gelatin my beer. I've got Hindus drinking it.


Just don't tell em P D. Cant be reincarnated as a tape worm or a louse on gillards vadge if they don't know ay?


----------



## manticle

> Most of the advice here is for guys that are kegging their beer. Im a bit of an amateur, and just ferment, then rack into a bottling bucket to bulk prime, then bottle. I have never used anything for clearing my beer, but I want to give it a go for my next brew. Is it necessary to use a secondary fermenter to use gelatine? or can I simply add it in at a certain stage to my primary, then when its time to bottle, rack to bottling bucket for bulk priming and then bottle straight away. Open to other suggestions, I just havent experiemented much as I dont want to screw up my brews!
> 
> Cheers


Gelatine is to help drop out the yeast which you want to leave behind when transferring to your bottling bucket anyway so you are better off fining the primary.


----------



## rglnz

Cool, cheers for that. I dont have temp control for my fermenter besides a damp towel or wrapping it in a blanket. Does it matter if I just add the gelatine to my fermenter at my normal room temp fermenting temp? also, at what stage do I add it? a day before racking to bottling? how long does it need to work?


----------



## Mickcr250

When adding gelatine in primary do I need to stir? Or just pour it over the surface ?


----------



## Black Devil Dog

I give mine a very gentle stir.


----------



## Mickcr250

Gentle stir it is, thanks mate


----------



## Mickcr250

So I just boiled the kettle a few times, then poured 400 ml of water into a sanitised jug and when it cooled to 75c added two packets of brigalow finings which I am pretty sure is just gelatin and mixed it up and added 200ml to each of my two fermenters. All seemed to go well except when cleaning up I noticed some jello stuff stuck to my thermometer, have I stuffed up?


----------



## MastersBrewery

My normal regime is to rack to secondary then gelatine, so I can wash the yeast cake and reuse, I then dry hop if necessary, and crash to 2c half way through the dry hop, I do this for both kegged and bottled beers.
The sediment at the bottom of a bottle is minimal and still has full carbonation.

MB


----------



## Black Devil Dog

I'm not sure what is in the Brigalow packs, but you can buy food grade gelatin at IGA, for not very much and use 1 teaspoon per batch. Add it to 75c, pre boiled water like you did and stir until completely dissolved. It does have a stickyness to it unless you make sure it's fully dissolved.

I'm not sure why your thermometer was anywhere near the gelatin though.


----------



## Mickcr250

I was going to get just unflavoured gelatine but then I saw they had brigalow sachets for a dollar so thought I would try it. I used my thermometer to mix it up.


----------



## Mickcr250

This works great! Its amazing what a spoon full of gelatin can do.


----------



## Moad

Have just started using Gelatine....WOW!

I had a real cloudy beer which is why I looked for finings, it cleared it up into the clearest beer I have ever seen. No exaggeration...

I will be using this on most of my beers from now on


----------



## Black n Tan

I'd be interested to know from you guys that have just started using gelatine if you notice an adverse effect on head retention. I use gelatine most of the time but recently noticed that the clearer my beers are, the poorer the head retention. I suspect my problems with head retention started when I changed from using pig/cow gelatine to fish gelatine (as I read the pKa may be more optimised for use as a fining agent). Anyway I have just switched back and see if that improves head retention. Anyone had a similar experience?

EDIT: typo


----------



## Moad

I can't really answer as I added some one way valves on my lines recently and it has basically ruined my pouring pressure. I don't really get much head...from the taps.


----------



## NewtownClown

turn your valves around the other way?


----------



## Moad

hahaha they are definitely on the right way, they are the keg king valves... 

It builds the pressure back up eventually it is just noticably slower than without them. I have to set my pressure to 16 where before it was 12.

Temp 4 degrees and line 3m of 5mm ID

edit: I thought I'd have a quick read and it appears I am now at the correct psi. Not sure why it was pouring properly before the valves were put in. I was also freezing glasses which I will no longer be doing.


----------



## barabool

Don't fear the cloud


----------



## philmud

Does anyone have any tips on avoiding/minimizing fluffy bottoms (yes, I know, wear velvet boxers). Is it inevitable? Does it improve with more time before bottling? If so, how long is optimum?


----------



## Blind Dog

I've found a few days is all I need before kegging or bottling to avoid the fluffy bottom in the keg or bottles

That said I often put the gelatine in the keg anyway and haven't yet had a problem so long as the keg is rested for a fair few hours after last moving it


----------



## philmud

That could be the issue, I can't rack from inside the fridge, so might need to move the fermenter & let it sit for a few hours before racking.


----------



## Bogan333

Jye said:


> There have been a number of brewers getting great results with gelatine as a fining lately so here is a tutorial on how to prepare and add it.
> 
> Start with 200ml of room temp water. You can choose to boil this first and cool if you wish but Ive found this unnecessary since it will be pasteurised later on. But if you must then a tip is to use the micro wave to quickly boil and then chuck it in the freezer. Now add 2 level tea spoons of unflavoured gelatine and allow to stand for 10 min. This lets the gelatine �bloom� which is much like rehydrating dried yeast and will now look fluffy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gel_Gear.JPG
> 
> 
> 
> Gel_Bloom.JPG
> 
> Give it a swirl to mix in the gelatine and gently heat on the stove/microwave to 75C. Heating the gelatine too hot or even boiling will denature it and it will loose the fining ability making it useless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gel_Stove.JPG
> 
> 
> 
> Gel_temp.JPG
> 
> Hold the solution at 75C for 15 min to pasteurise then add to secondary/keg when rack to mix it well, you do not have to wait for it to cool before adding it to the beer. You should also only add it to beer that has been chilled. If added to the keg then give it a bit of a shake if you�re unsure of it being mixing correctly and allow to sit cold for 3 days. The first pour from a keg will also be cloudy with yeast, just the same as if you had left a keg to sit for a number of weeks to clear.
> 
> Gelatine does not 'set' on the bottom of the keg, so if you move it after clearing it will once again become cloudy just like a keg without gelatine. Gelatine works by clumping together yeast and increasing the particle size which allows it to fall out of suspension faster.
> 
> Thats its� start enjoying your clear beer. . This is what I was told and have been doing this way for over 20 years
> Add 1 tsp of unflavored gelatin to a cup of hot, but not boiling water and gently mix it into your fermenter. Again, wait a few days before bottling or racking to allow the gelatin to clear the beer.


----------



## hooper80

Hi fellas, I have never used gelatine before. I have 2 x 20 lt fermentors with beer. When and where do I add gelatine. Can I add straight to my fermentors a day or two before I keg? I like to have my beer totally in a closed circuit straight from my boil on brew day until it hits the glass a few weeks later. Anyway, some advise would be awesome.


----------



## RobW

I prefer to cold condition in the fermenter for a week or so, then rack straight to the keg onto a teaspoon of gelatine that's been dissolved in a cup of boiling water.
By the time you have carbed the keg (unless you crash carb) it will be good to go.


----------



## Black n Tan

I have used the keg method with success, but I prefer to add it to the primary before I rack to the keg to leave as much behind as possible (especially for lagers). I first chill the beer before adding the gelatine (it tends to work better this way) and then leave it for at least 2 days, preferably more (5 or so). Most references indicate not to add gelatine to boiling water or to boil gelatine as it denatures it and suggest a temp of about 70C to dissolve and pasteurise. Both work in my opinion, but I tend to try to allow the water to cool a little before adding the gelatine to be on the safe side. 

EDIT: I have always been curious as to what people mean when they talk about 'denaturing' gelatine. I understand the term denature especially when it come to proteins/enzymes such as alpha-amylase etc, but not sure what happens to gelatine when it is heated. Gelatine has a net positive charge in wort and thus attracts negatively charged yeast, and this forms aggregates that are denser than the wort and thus fall to the bottom. What i can't quite understand is why unravelling (denaturing) the gelatine would make it less effective: it still has the same charge properties which is the important thing in relation to its fining capacity. If on the other hand heat causes the gelatine to be cleaved into smaller fragments, I could understand that at some point this could affect its ability to fine. Anyway a bit of a ramble, but something I am yet to get a good answer to. Anyone?


----------



## RobW

I've tried both as well and not seen any difference.
However in practice by the time I add the gelatine to the boiled water it's cooled a bit anyway.

As I understand it the denaturing by boiling water is an issue in food applications because the gelling property is destroyed.
For fining we just want the dissolved gelatine to disperse through the beer and then drop out, taking the suspended yeast with it, so not really an issue.


----------



## WitWonder

So this is the result for me  After chilling the beer to around 5 degrees for 48 hours, I boiled the kettle, left it for 5-10 mins and added 2 tsp of gelatine, stirred to dissolve then pitched into the fermenter and gently stirred. After about 24 hours I then added roughly 20g of polyclar, prepared in much the same manner. I left the beer for around 48 hours and kegged. The picture above is after 24 hours in the keg. I might also add the wort going into the fermenter was crystal clear... Yeast was Mangrove Jacks US west coast, the beer is an APA, no dry hopping but some 10 minute kettle additions was about it. Fermenter volume about 43L. I am F^&%ing sick of my beer looking like this! Any suggestions?


----------



## Black n Tan

I have found it is best to add the gelatine to chilled beer as you have done, but I would tend to add if after the wort has been chilled for only 24 hours to give it more time to work. I add the poolyclar after a further 48 hours and then give it up to 5 days before kegging. The colder you can get the beer the better it will work. When I used a chest freezer to ferment my beer was brilliant after cold crashing to -1C (follow the above process). Recently I moved to a commercial fridge and can only get the beer to about 4C and it no longer brilliant. So the lesson is a few degrees can make a huge difference. Can you get it colder?


----------



## browndog

Witwonder, it could be the result of chill haze from excessive hops or excessive protein from a weak boil, however, try this method. Brew and ferment your beer as you normally would. When you reach terminal gravity, crash chill to 1C and leave for at least 4 days. Then when you keg, add a cup of water with 1 teaspoon of gelatine (already dissolved of course) to the keg, the beer should be clear in 24hrs, the first glass will be muddy and will clear up from there. This is the method I use and it works a treat. Make sure when racking you don't get any trub in the fermenter.


----------



## Pogierob

WitWonder said:


> beer 17 Jan 2015.jpg
> 
> So this is the result for me  After chilling the beer to around 5 degrees for 48 hours, I boiled the kettle, left it for 5-10 mins and added 2 tsp of gelatine, stirred to dissolve then pitched into the fermenter and gently stirred. After about 24 hours I then added roughly 20g of polyclar, prepared in much the same manner. I left the beer for around 48 hours and kegged. The picture above is after 24 hours in the keg. I might also add the wort going into the fermenter was crystal clear... Yeast was Mangrove Jacks US west coast, the beer is an APA, no dry hopping but some 10 minute kettle additions was about it. Fermenter volume about 43L. I am F^&%ing sick of my beer looking like this! Any suggestions?


Well the gelatine worked, that beer is definately staying in your sideways glass..

Seriously though. Give it at least 48 after sitting in the keg, everything needs a bit of time to work. If it doesn't clear up after 2-3 days then as mentioned- chill haze.


----------



## WitWonder

OK well better results this time around. I found out that my gelatine was, ehem, three years past it's best before date so I got a new batch. I also used a different malt (Bairds) instead of the BB ale malt I've been using. The process - I rehydrated the gelatine by using cooled, pre-boiled water and added two tsp to about a cup of water. Let it sit for 20 mins or so, stuck it in the microwave on low for about 6 minutes. I also used the Polyclar per the instructions - kept it agitated for about 20 minutes on the stir plate before pitching. I also pushed the fridge down to 2 degrees as opposed to five. So, you know when they say change one variable at a time... We use a braumeister and the recipe was an IPA again so not much change from that side at least!

This pic is the day after kegging. Stuffed if I know why it's sideways...


----------



## iJosh

Here's a post I made in another thread, but I think it's relevant.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/83110-gelatine-does-it-work/?p=1229644

I refer to something called Kieselsol. The stuff I buy is called StabiClar-30, but it's the same.

Cheers


----------



## Gigantorus

I seek your wisdom chaps...

If I am dry-hopping for the last 5 days and add finings on say the 3rd last day - will it affect the dry-hopping in any way? Will it cease the imparting of flavour/aroma in any way?

Your advice thanks?

Cheers,

Pete


----------



## WitWonder

Gigantorus said:


> I seek your wisdom chaps...
> 
> If I am dry-hopping for the last 5 days and add finings on say the 3rd last day - will it affect the dry-hopping in any way? Will it cease the imparting of flavour/aroma in any way?
> 
> Your advice thanks?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Pete


The compounds you seek from adding hops to the fermenter will still be there after you add finings. Finings drop things out of suspension via molecular attraction of charged particles - your dry hops will end up on the bottom of the fermenter, still giving off the compounds we seek. 


FYI This is the same beer as my previous post, with the addition of about a week in the keg. Pretty happy with that.


----------



## TheWiggman

I've never used finings before and want my Czech pils - which, to date tastes mighty fine in teh fermenter - to have justice done with clarity. I've currently got it sitting at 0°C and will have it that way until Sunday. I'm going to keg most of it and then bottle some.

Can I add the gelatine straight into the primary? To minimise O2 contact I'm not interested in racking to a secondary. Yeast won't be harvested.


----------



## doon

I add it straight into primary. Some add it to beer thats already in keg


----------



## Black n Tan

TheWiggman said:


> I've never used finings before and want my Czech pils - which, to date tastes mighty fine in teh fermenter - to have justice done with clarity. I've currently got it sitting at 0°C and will have it that way until Sunday. I'm going to keg most of it and then bottle some.
> 
> Can I add the gelatine straight into the primary? To minimise O2 contact I'm not interested in racking to a secondary. Yeast won't be harvested.


That is my standard practice. I cold crash and then add the gelatine after 24 hours and then leave it a few days before kegging.


----------



## Black n Tan

iJosh said:


> Here's a post I made in another thread, but I think it's relevant.
> 
> http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/83110-gelatine-does-it-work/?p=1229644
> 
> I refer to something called Kieselsol. The stuff I buy is called StabiClar-30, but it's the same.
> 
> Cheers


Where do you source the stabilclar from?


----------



## citizensnips

Just my two cents....
I've only ever used koppafloc and gelatin and end up with crystal clear beers. If you're only kegging I would highly recommend adding your gelatin to your keg once it's chilled as it will result in pretty much megaswill filtered clarity. Make sure you give it time though, don't expect it to work over night. I generally find letting it work for a week results in pretty amazing clarity. This works for me as I let my beers just naturally force carb over a week. They always taste a hell of a lot better after they've been in the keg a little while anyway so that conditioning phase seems to fit together nicely. Just note that if you agitate your keg at anytime after the gelatin is introduced it will throw the gelatin and haze back into suspension resulting in cloudy beers....after a day or two of sitting still she'll be back to normal .
If your adding to primary and bottling I've found leaving it for longer than 48 hours does result in clearer beers just as it does in the keg, however what ever works for your process. Just make sure when you pull your fermenter out of the fridge to be careful not agitate it as the same issue will occur. Letting it sit on a counter for half an hour or so before bottling is also a good idea. Also assuming your bulk priming always rack from the top to ensure you don't draw out all the gelatin and crud from the bottom of your fermenter......don't get desperate when you get to the bottom of the fermenter and suck up the last 1/2 inch of beer, leave it there to ensure you get clear beers otherwise you just end up with the same problem you're trying to resolve.


----------



## TheWiggman

Thanks all. I'll go straight in the fermenter for the first run because I'm keeging and bottling, and will be transporting the keg. I would do PVPP but reading the results here, sounds like it'll be just and effective and speedy by using gelatine. Being omnivorous I wouldn't mind a bit of hoof in my beer.


----------



## mofox1

Should be one of those obvious things... but I'll ask away anyway. Never shied away from looking the fool.

Got a decently dry hopped galaxy pale ale in the keg, about 6-8 pints into it (that I recall, anyway). I can't think of any reason it won't work, but is dropping some dissolved gelatine into it now worthwhile?

Yes it tastes great now. Yes it will taste better if it looks better, because I'm shallow like that.

I'm assuming the only "detriment" to doing it now, is that I'll need to purge a larger headspace. And not drink from it for 24/48 hrs.... which I can see to be a problem.

Also - I have the "Davis" brand at home, which smells a bit "beefy" when re-hydrated... hoping it doesn't present in the beer. Noticed there was a bit of discussion earlier on in the thread, but were there any other brands that were more neutral? Or is the Davis brand okay?


----------



## Barge

Only problem that I can see is that, as the beer is carbonated, it'll foam up like a mofo. If you're quick with the lid I guess it won't get too messy. 

Don't know about the brand. I've been using leaves from aldi and they work a treat. Can't see it being an issue though.


----------



## Danscraftbeer

I only use post ferment finings to the keg at fresh fill/pre carbonated. (brewers gelatin). Done correctly as to everything I have read. It works.
I've gone total phobia of messing with the batch at all after pitching. Its left in primary unopened until kegging or bottling. If I bottle condition I don't add any finings and it clears with time. Clear when warm conditioned then chill hazed when refrigerated etc. Lager for a week and crystal clear.
So many good beers are cloudy anyway. Sometimes its best not to use finings.

Kegging is so cool tho. Skip the sediment in bottle conditioning thing and you can bottle draught beer knowing its already good.


----------



## mofox1

Cheers - yes it did foam up... but no problem because it was only about half full. It must have been a very large 6 to 8 (cough 16 or 18) pints.


----------



## enoch

I have used gelatine on a carbed keg by putting the dissolved gelatine in a pet bottle with a carbonator cap on it and counter pressure filling back into the keg.
Works a treat.


----------



## nosco

I have put gelatine straight into a carbed keg with great result. But I have a feeling gelatine only works on yeast haze. It won't work on protein haze, polyclar does and nothing works on hop haze. Is this correct?


----------



## mofox1

enoch said:


> I have used gelatine on a carbed keg by putting the dissolved gelatine in a pet bottle with a carbonator cap on it and counter pressure filling back into the keg.
> Works a treat.


Well that would have saved me a bunch of co2.

Next time, gadget. Next time.


----------



## fraser_john

nosco said:


> I have put gelatine straight into a carbed keg with great result. But I have a feeling gelatine only works on yeast haze. It won't work on protein haze, polyclar does and nothing works on hop haze. Is this correct?


This byo article says it works on yeast and proteins... linky I use it almost 100% of the time during lagering or cold conditioning and have very little chill haze issues anymore. Love it.


----------



## pist

Just poured my first beer fined with gelatine and im impressed. Really helps to force us05 to drop which really seems to want to hang around. My dry hop has all but disappeared though so might throw more in next time


----------



## peekaboo_jones

I'm 2 years into kit/extract brewing with temp control and bottling only. Recently moved to using gelatin after a year of cold crashing and Gelatin does pretty very well. A couple of times I've rushed the process and bottled to quick after adding gelatin (36hr mark approx) and there was too much fluffy gelatin in the bottled beer.
3 plus days is better, ideally 6-7 days. 750ml bottles, first pour is clear as any filtered commercial beer. Second pour is more hazy but less then non-gelatin bottled beer.
Hop aroma, I haven't really noticed any difference, but I usually do flameout additions as well as dry hop, so it may be assisting?


----------



## Beamer

i started doing this method 5 brews ago, awesome results i now gelatine in my second vessel in which i cold crash. Pretty cool to be able to watch tele through your pilsner.


----------



## shacked

Are there any implications when leaving beer with gelatin in it for extended periods of time? I transfer from primary to a keg and leave in the keg for up to 5 weeks - depending on beer style (in the fridge) before transferring to the keg fridge, carbonating and serving. I was thinking of adding gelatin when I transfer from primary to the keg but that would mean the gelatin would stay in the keg for up to 5 weeks.


----------



## fishingbrad

I gelatin just before carbonation.

can I ask why you would leave a keg 5 weeks without carbonation ? if I've read your post correctly.


----------



## shacked

5 weeks is usually lagering. Other than that, it's just until another tap becomes available


----------



## TheWiggman

I do it regularly with lagers Shacked, can't noticed a difference between them taste-wise.


----------



## Beamer

shacked said:


> Are there any implications when leaving beer with gelatin in it for extended periods of time? I transfer from primary to a keg and leave in the keg for up to 5 weeks - depending on beer style (in the fridge) before transferring to the keg fridge, carbonating and serving. I was thinking of adding gelatin when I transfer from primary to the keg but that would mean the gelatin would stay in the keg for up to 5 weeks.


I did this with a kolsch that sat in my lagering fridge 6 weeks, no taste difference, but an extremely bright and clear beer.


----------



## jhsbaker

I have a Munich Dunkel that is currently cold conditioning. I'll be away for about 2 weeks, then planning to bottle as soon as I'm back. Would it be ok to leave it after adding gelatine for this period of time prior to returning and bottling?


----------



## goatchop41

You don't have to worry at all about gelatin doing anything bad flavour-wise, even after long periods. It doesn't add any flavour or have any negative effects. You can bottle beer that has been fined with gelatin and age it with no ill effects



James said:


> I have a Munich Dunkel that is currently cold conditioning. I'll be away for about 2 weeks, then planning to bottle as soon as I'm back. Would it be ok to leave it after adding gelatine for this period of time prior to returning and bottling?


That'll be fine. Even though it should be lovely and crystal clear after that time, there will still be enough yeast left in suspension to allow carbonation in the bottle. _Maybe_ it could take a little longer to fully carbonate (maybe 3 weeks instead of 2?), but shouldn't be an problem


----------



## cliffo

I used to regularly filter my beers but rarely do it these days except for Kolsch/lagers.

I'm about to keg a couple of ales that I've chilled in the fermenters to just above freezing and am going to use gelatin on these beers.

Once I keg them, they will sit at room temp for several weeks until they get called up for duty.

With this in mind, when would be the best time to use gelatin?

- In the fermenters (I reuse my yeast - does this have any impact?)
- In the keg at the time I transfer from the fermenters; or
- Leave it until I'm putting the keg in the serving fridge, open the keg and add it then?

Cheers,
cliffo


----------



## laxation

Trying this for the first time with a cloudy ipa

Looking forward to the results!

Will have to move the fermenter from fridge to a table to keg, but hopefully I can do that without mixing it around too much


----------



## mtb

Godspeed laxation. There's some belief that gelatin strips hop aroma so consider preparing a post-gelatin dry hop if you find it's lacking in hoppy goodness.



cliffo said:


> I used to regularly filter my beers but rarely do it these days except for Kolsch/lagers.
> 
> I'm about to keg a couple of ales that I've chilled in the fermenters to just above freezing and am going to use gelatin on these beers.
> 
> Once I keg them, they will sit at room temp for several weeks until they get called up for duty.
> 
> With this in mind, when would be the best time to use gelatin?
> 
> - In the fermenters (I reuse my yeast - does this have any impact?)
> - In the keg at the time I transfer from the fermenters; or
> - Leave it until I'm putting the keg in the serving fridge, open the keg and add it then?
> 
> Cheers,
> cliffo



Just noticed nobody got back to you cliffo.. will give you my $0.02 now if it helps at all. Gelatin in the fermenter for sure. It has never impacted yeast reuse for me and sources elsewhere state the same.


----------



## laxation

I'm gonna keg it Wednesday night so unfortunately won't have time to dry hop again. Hopefully it doesn't get rid of too much, I didn't dry hop the first time as much as maybe I should have


----------



## cliffo

mtb said:


> Just noticed nobody got back to you cliffo.. will give you my $0.02 now if it helps at all. Gelatin in the fermenter for sure. It has never impacted yeast reuse for me and sources elsewhere state the same.



Cheers, I went ahead with using it in the fermenter with seemingly no issues in reusing the yeast.

Beers are quite clear and much easier/less work than filtering.


----------



## Gloveski

cliffo said:


> Cheers, I went ahead with using it in the fermenter with seemingly no issues in reusing the yeast.
> 
> Beers are quite clear and much easier/less work than filtering.


For what its worth I prefer in the fermenter seem to end up with clearer beers only do in Keg if running low on supplies. Also have reused yeast with no issues


----------



## Fred

Jye said:


> There have been a number of brewers getting great results with gelatine as a fining lately so here is a tutorial on how to prepare and add it.
> 
> Start with 200ml of room temp water. You can choose to boil this first and cool if you wish but Ive found this unnecessary since it will be pasteurised later on. But if you must then a tip is to use the micro wave to quickly boil and then chuck it in the freezer. Now add 2 level tea spoons of unflavoured gelatine and allow to stand for 10 min. This lets the gelatine bloom which is much like rehydrating dried yeast and will now look fluffy.
> 
> View attachment 18350
> View attachment 18351
> 
> 
> Give it a swirl to mix in the gelatine and gently heat on the stove/microwave to 75C. Heating the gelatine too hot or even boiling will denature it and it will loose the fining ability making it useless.
> 
> View attachment 18352
> View attachment 18353
> 
> 
> Hold the solution at 75C for 15 min to pasteurise then add to secondary/keg when rack to mix it well, you do not have to wait for it to cool before adding it to the beer. You should also only add it to beer that has been chilled. If added to the keg then give it a bit of a shake if youre unsure of it being mixing correctly and allow to sit cold for 3 days. The first pour from a keg will also be cloudy with yeast, just the same as if you had left a keg to sit for a number of weeks to clear.
> 
> Gelatine does not 'set' on the bottom of the keg, so if you move it after clearing it will once again become cloudy just like a keg without gelatine. Gelatine works by clumping together yeast and increasing the particle size which allows it to fall out of suspension faster.
> 
> Thats its start enjoying your clear beer.




wow! thanks for this clever idea! I want to use this gelatin technique real soon!


----------



## Fred

mtb said:


> Godspeed laxation. There's some belief that gelatin strips hop aroma so consider preparing a post-gelatin dry hop if you find it's lacking in hoppy goodness.
> 
> 
> 
> Just noticed nobody got back to you cliffo.. will give you my $0.02 now if it helps at all. Gelatin in the fermenter for sure. It has never impacted yeast reuse for me and sources elsewhere state the same.



do you have photos on the outcome?


----------



## TidalPete

Gelatin is a great way to add a quick clarity to your beers as long as you don't add to keg & then transport party-wise (or even disturb the keg in any way).
Transported to a party back in the day with very embarrassing results & have learnt the lesson forever.

Gelatin in the fermenter is a much better option as long as you keep it out of the keg when transferring after cold crash

AN EVEN BETTER option if you're not pushed for time is to forget the gelatin altogether & just cold crash for a few days before transferring to keg.

My 2 cents.

Edit ---- The longer you cold crash the better the results.


----------



## mtb

Fred said:


> do you have photos on the outcome?




Photos of what.. the beer?


----------



## mtb

Shot a Coopers label through my gelatin'd LCBA clone.


----------



## TidalPete

mtb said:


> Shot a Coopers label through my gelatin'd LCBA clone.


Clarity average. Head not so good though. (no emotocon to express my sympathy)


----------



## mtb

Yeah shame about the head on this one


----------



## shacked

mtb said:


> Shot a Coopers label through my gelatin'd LCBA clone.



Now that's a bright ale.


----------



## Andy_27

I just gelatined my first brew, following the thread with about 1 teaspoon in 200ml water brought to 75 degrees. Holy Crap, the difference it made!! I added it to a keg of IPA and after 24 hours poured off the first 500ml of so which was pretty cloudy. But after that, its amazing! Not quite crystal yet, but Im sure in another couple of days it will clear a bit more. I cant recommend gelatine enough now!


----------



## laxation

Is there anything wrong with re-using a yeast cake if you have used gelatine? (planning to completely dump a new brew on top of one fermenter and take a big cup from another)


----------



## mtb

I've done it a few times mate, haven't noticed an impact to attenuation or speed


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I used to use gelatin, haven't used it in a while now, cold crash at -1 for 48 hours and let everything drop out. No noticeable difference between a beer cleared with gelatin and one without.


----------



## mtb

wide eyed and legless said:


> I used to use gelatin, haven't used it in a while now, cold crash at -1 for 48 hours and let everything drop out. No noticeable difference between a beer cleared with gelatin and one without.


Gotta disagree WEAL. At least in my own experiences doing the same, I can achieve crystal clear clarity in the glass with gelatin but the same via a simple CC takes weeks. If there's a secret to be known here I'm all ears..


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Dr Charlie Bamforth did a podcast about beer clarity and haze, depending on the strength of the beer either -1 or -2 for stronger beers for 2 days, no need to stuff around with clearing agents.


----------



## malt and barley blues

Always respected what Charlie has to offer, a mine of valuable information.


----------



## Bribie G

Since the recent widespread availability of Biofine Clear - particularly for keggers - I'd suggest that conversations about gelatine have now moved into the realm of "should I buy a Leyland P76 for bigger boot space?".


----------



## laxation

Do you use it in the same way?

Edit* just saw it on the last post here: https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/biofine.95697/page-4
So put it in the keg and then rack on top of it? Seems good..

And is there anything I'm missing with this one? https://www.homemakeit.com.au/products/brewtan-b-100g
it's half the price of others... (and around the corner from home!)


----------



## Bribie G

Basically yes, I just did a transfer into keg about two hours ago and tipped in a capful of Biofine before the racking so that it swirled up into the beer. Should be crystal clear in two days. 

However one difference is that Biofine works best at as close to zero degrees as possible, while gelatine works ok at most temperatures.


----------



## Andy_27

mtb said:


> Gotta disagree WEAL. At least in my own experiences doing the same, I can achieve crystal clear clarity in the glass with gelatin but the same via a simple CC takes weeks. If there's a secret to be known here I'm all ears..


I agree. I've cold crashed at -1 to -2 for several days and chill haze is still very much there. Since I'm now an expert on gelatine having used it once, I can say that gelatine after 24 hours was freakn amazing! After 2 or 3 days, almost crystal clear in an IPA.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Andy_27 said:


> I agree. I've cold crashed at -1 to -2 for several days and chill haze is still very much there. Since I'm now an expert on gelatine having used it once, I can say that gelatine after 24 hours was freakn amazing! After 2 or 3 days, almost crystal clear in an IPA.


Are you doing a protein rest? A good rolling boil? Rapid chilling of the wort? What is your MO?
After 2 days at -1 or 2 C my beer is clear without any additives so your process is obviously different to mine.


----------



## Andy_27

wide eyed and legless said:


> Are you doing a protein rest? A good rolling boil? Rapid chilling of the wort? What is your MO?
> After 2 days at -1 or 2 C my beer is clear without any additives so your process is obviously different to mine.


No protein rest because I did it once and it caused problems with my urn cutting out due to excess gunk build up on the element. Other than that, my boil is good and I get no difference no chilling or using an immersion chiller.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

If you watch the Charlie Bamforth link I posted he explains the different factors of where the haze comes from, pH not right, polyphenols from the grain and the hops, protein and starch from grains and adjuncts so getting the mash right is important. The other thing I don't do is dry hop, I go along with final hop additions into the whirlpool. Two days and my beer is clear, as I said I used to add gelatin and now I don't, does the beer taste any different, not as far as I am aware. But not adding the gelatin is reducing any further risk of oxidization.


----------



## giad

Gelatine + CC, bottled


----------



## Tricky Dicky

I was just kegging my second batch of English bitter and using gelatin for the first time. I added the gelatin (1 teaspoon to 1 cup of water at 150F thoroughly mixed for about 10-15 mins) into the keg and filled it up with beer that had been cold crashed to 2c. Problem was I over filled the keg and beer overflowed from the keg, luckily I was in the garage as it spilled on to the floor. I noticed that there was a big clump of a jelly like substance amongst the spilt beer. This had me wondering if this was normal, should the gelatin clump together like this? 

Seeing that I had lost some of the gelatin, I made another gelatin mixture with a similar method using only half a teaspoon of gelatin hopefully that will suffice?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

This is my latest use of gelatin, mixed with stock and port and poured over an Ox tongue before pressing.


----------



## jackgym

What about the chill haze effect with bottled beer?
That will still happen, I'd imagine?


----------



## Rocker1986

I didn't find too much chill haze issue with gelatine but I did find that it made the yeast sediment fluffy and easily disturbed, as well as some of it actually sticking to the sides of the bottles which I thought rather defeated the whole purpose of using it at all. Maybe I didn't use it properly or the right amount or whatever but I switched to isinglass after a few frustrating batches, which has been much better for dropping out yeast and keeping the sediment compacted. I just use Polyclar for chill haze. I know some people are chemophobes and won't use PVPP in their beer because reasons but it bloody works, then falls out of the beer completely into the trub.


----------



## Batz

Get with the times, chuck the gelatin and use Biofine. 100% better.

https://hoppydaysbrewingsupplies.com.au/product/biofine-clear-a3-250ml/


----------



## Wobbly74

Must admit I do like biofine clear. Just make sure you add when cold. So easy to use.


----------



## Schikitar

Rocker1986 said:


> I switched to isinglass


I bought some Isinglass but am yet to use it (mostly because I haven't yet looked up how). 

Biofine and ClarityFerm in particular look pretty good though, I have a few gluten-sensitive people in my life (some gluten-intolerant) so I'd be keen to try both of those in my brews..


----------



## Rocker1986

I think ClarityFerm is expensive for what it is. 8 bucks for a vial that only does one batch. I don't have any need for gluten reducing in my beers though, so for me personally it's not worth using. Biofine sounds pretty good though. May experiment with it at some stage. 

I have the dry powdered isinglass. It's as simple as chilling some water in the fridge, usually I use about 200mL (can pre-boil it if you want), chucking in half to 3/4 of a teaspoon of the isinglass and whacking it on the stir plate for 20-30 minutes (or hand stirring if you haven't a stir plate). Then simply pour it into the beer.


----------



## Schikitar

Rocker1986 said:


> 8 bucks for a vial that only does one batch.


I wouldn't add it to every brew but I might give it a crack on one just to see if they can tolerate it or not (nothing quite like experimenting on your friends)!



Rocker1986 said:


> I have the dry powdered isinglass.


Ah right, I've got the pre-made solution.. which is fine but I'm unsure when in the ferment I supposed to add it. Also, apparently it doesn't last long once opened?!


----------



## Rocker1986

You add it after the ferment when the beer is in the cold crash phase. I would imagine this goes for both liquid and dry versions. Not sure about the life of the liquid one; I've had my dry one for over two years although it'll need to be replaced soon as it's getting low. I just keep it in the fridge.

Edit, seems the dry one lasts forever if stored right: 
*Stability*
· *Vicfine Isinglass* powder can be kept for an indefinite period if stored under cool, dry conditions.
· *Vicfine Isinglass* solution should be used within 24-36 hours of preparation and kept below 20c
to avoid denaturing the collagen.


----------



## Wobbly74

I didn’t have much luck with the pre-made isinglass, but it may have been an old batch. I add about 30ml of biofine clear per keg which seems to do a good job. I bought a 500ml liquid container, which makes it convenient.


----------



## Batz

OK I use biofine, I C.C. for 7days and then rack and Biofine. C.C. for another 2-3 days. Great results..


----------



## RobinW

I use Gelatin. CC then filter to a keg and toss genatin in the keg.
I make it in the microwave. 3/4cup water. Add teaspoon of granular gelatin.
30 seconds in the micro then temp check and stir.
This time of year another 20 seconds gets it to 70C.
Toss that into the full keg. Burp it and then gass it.
First 500ml is always the rubbish.
Works for me most of the time.
Does not remove chill haze.

http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/06/how-to-clear-your-beer-with-gelatin.html


----------



## Garfield

Schikitar said:


> I have a few gluten-sensitive people in my life (some gluten-intolerant) so I'd be keen to try both of those in my brews..



Dude, barley is high in gluten. Unless you're making sorghum beers, you best not share them with any coeliac mates (enemies should be fine). Then again, a coeliac would know this and wouldn't drink your brews without asking what you make it with.

So I assume your friends are merely interested in eating "less" gluten? I'd still suggest they move to wine or water. 

Bottom line is, why use a gluten free fining agent in a glutenous drink?


----------



## Batz

RobinW said:


> I use Gelatin. CC then filter to a keg and toss genatin in the keg.
> I make it in the microwave. 3/4cup water. Add teaspoon of granular gelatin.
> 30 seconds in the micro then temp check and stir.
> This time of year another 20 seconds gets it to 70C.
> Toss that into the full keg. Burp it and then gass it.
> First 500ml is always the rubbish.
> Works for me most of the time.
> Does not remove chill haze.
> 
> http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/06/how-to-clear-your-beer-with-gelatin.html



If you use Biofine there is not need to filter, my filter has not been used in 18 months. No need to add anything to the keg, pours perfectly clear first pour to the last. No trub in your lines and taps like gelatin.


----------



## Rocker1986

I haven't had a need to filter with isinglass and polyclar either. It just sinks into the fermenter trub. Also get clear pours straight away although I usually discard the first 50-60mL. Better than wasting a pint though.


----------



## Schikitar

Garfield said:


> Dude, barley is high in gluten.


I am aware of these things - I have family that are coeliac and I would never offer them a gluten-reduced beer, but my wife and a couple friends are low FODMAP (do you know what this is?) and are gluten-sensitive, not intolerant, as in if they have too much it upsets them, causes bloating etc., but it does not cause long-term physical harm like coeliac disease. They already drink mostly wine but have mentioned numerous times that they'd love to have a beer that didn't upset their stomachs, hence my interest in making a gluten-reduced beer they could likely tolerate.

So yeah, my comments weren't in the interests of making beer for gluten-nazi hipsters, it's for people who have a genuine medical desire for a low gluten beer.


----------



## Garfield

Schikitar said:


> I am aware of these things - I have family that are coeliac and I would never offer them a gluten-reduced beer, but my wife and a couple friends are low FODMAP (do you know what this is?) and are gluten-sensitive, not intolerant, as in if they have too much it upsets them, causes bloating etc., but it does not cause long-term physical harm like coeliac disease. They already drink mostly wine but have mentioned numerous times that they'd love to have a beer that didn't upset their stomachs, hence my interest in making a gluten-reduced beer they could likely tolerate.
> 
> So yeah, my comments weren't in the interests of making beer for gluten-nazi hipsters, it's for people who have a genuine medical desire for a low gluten beer.



We speak the same language, I know the low fodmap diet well, I also know gut health in general. So I totally agree with your intentions. 

I'm sorry, I misunderstood your intention with the finings, but maybe you did too. Clarex is an enzyme to go in at commencement of fermentation rather than introduced as a fining agent. Not a bad idea to reduce gluten if that's your intent (and I respect your efforts). However, I'd be very surprised if this can lower gluten to a level where it's suitable for someone with any sort of intolerance. The producer certainly doesn't guarantee any such thing. 

With that said, we've got apples and oranges in question here. FODMAP management is a different model entirely. Wheat and barley make the list due to a high fructan content. This may not be affected by adding Clarex enzyme. Fructan is a carbohydrate where gluten is a protein. They're often confused as the symptoms of intolerance are similar. 

Do you know which way your friends are trying to take their diet elimination? If they're not sure, I totally sympathise - I've been through this many times. But if I were you I'd triple check what they're really doing before suggesting they try low gluten beer.


----------



## RobinW

Batz said:


> If you use Biofine there is not need to filter, my filter has not been used in 18 months. No need to add anything to the keg, pours perfectly clear first pour to the last. No trub in your lines and taps like gelatin.


I got 2 brews going to kegs on Friday. I see craftbrewers has it. Might grab some and give it a go.
Pushing beer through the filter not only takes a long time but uses gas too.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

Just came to the end of my third brew (rookie!) all extract English bitter. This was the first time I had used gelatin and overall got great results. However the last couple of pints from the keg were like dishwater, extremely cloudy and after I let the pint sit for 10mins, the bottom half of the beer became opaque. I hadn't moved the keg at all for over a week so I haven't disturbed it. My previous two brews didn't have this problem with the last two pints, does this normally happen when using gelatin?


----------



## Rocker1986

One of the reasons I don't use it in kegs, or at all. There are much better products available I think.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

Rocker1986 said:


> One of the reasons I don't use it in kegs, or at all. There are much better products available I think.


Hmm I don't understand, the first two pints from a keg containing gelatin are regularly quoted as including shite but why would there be crap in the last two pints as well? Some of the gelatin must float as well as sink?


----------



## jackgym

I don't really understand why anyone would want to use gelatin(e)? or another clearing agent. 
My beer is in the fermenter for 14 days then bottled for a month which drops everything out quite well. 
If you wanted it any clearer you'd have to be a Virgo, like me.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

jackgym said:


> I don't really understand why anyone would want to use gelatin(e)? or another clearing agent.
> My beer is in the fermenter for 14 days then bottled for a month which drops everything out quite well.
> If you wanted it any clearer you'd have to be a Virgo, like me.


I only have a small set up, one keg and one fridge for homebrew use, waiting 6 weeks for the beer to clear is way beyond my levels of patience


----------



## jackgym

Tricky Dicky said:


> I only have a small set up, one keg and one fridge for homebrew use, waiting 6 weeks for the beer to clear is way beyond my levels of patience


Mate, you'll have to reform yourself Like I did  or buy more equipment.
I only need to brew once a month as I only drink 1 PET a night.


----------



## Rocker1986

You will find the yeast drops out pretty good by itself in bottles, although I do use isinglass to speed it up because it's slower in a keg of course. However, I use it in the fermenter while it's cold crashing so I can leave it behind when it's kegged and I get hardly any sediment in them. Clear pours from the get go. The last pour when it blows dry sucks up a bit of yeast if I let it splutter too long but otherwise clear from start to finish.

Isinglass drops yeast just as effectively as gelatine, but rather than resulting in a jelly like sediment, it forms a very compact sediment. 

Other haze could be chill haze. I use Polyclar to remove it, once again in the fermenter to leave it behind. I usually add it a couple of days after the isinglass. It works extremely well and to my taste doesn't negatively affect the flavour. 

Alternatively you could use the biofine mentioned earlier which drops both yeast and chill haze causing things, and also doesn't result in a jelly sediment.

As for why some use these things, some of us like clear beer. It's no more wrong or right than not wanting it clear, just personal preference. The point is that there are much better products than gelatine to achieve it.


----------



## Black Devil Dog

I used to use gelatine, but haven't for at least 18 months.

Biofine in the keg for Kolsch, lagers and any ales that I want to clear and it does the job perfectly without the jelly.


I had a few occasions when I held the beer up to the light and could see bits of jelly in the beer.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

Rocker1986 said:


> You will find the yeast drops out pretty good by itself in bottles, although I do use isinglass to speed it up because it's slower in a keg of course. However, I use it in the fermenter while it's cold crashing so I can leave it behind when it's kegged and I get hardly any sediment in them. Clear pours from the get go. The last pour when it blows dry sucks up a bit of yeast if I let it splutter too long but otherwise clear from start to finish.
> 
> Isinglass drops yeast just as effectively as gelatine, but rather than resulting in a jelly like sediment, it forms a very compact sediment.
> 
> Other haze could be chill haze. I use Polyclar to remove it, once again in the fermenter to leave it behind. I usually add it a couple of days after the isinglass. It works extremely well and to my taste doesn't negatively affect the flavour.
> 
> Alternatively you could use the biofine mentioned earlier which drops both yeast and chill haze causing things, and also doesn't result in a jelly sediment.
> 
> As for why some use these things, some of us like clear beer. It's no more wrong or right than not wanting it clear, just personal preference. The point is that there are much better products than gelatine to achieve it.


Just wondering why you get sediment at the start and finish of the keg?


----------



## HaveFun

I never used any kind of clearing agents or beer finings. 
I pressure ferment, after a few days cold crash, I transfer the beer into a different keg for conditioning. 
And harvest the yeast for my next brew does the beer finings or clearing agents affecting the yeast ?

Cheers
Stefan


----------



## Rocker1986

Tricky Dicky said:


> Just wondering why you get sediment at the start and finish of the keg?


Because it settles around the dip tube. At the beginning the first part of the pour clears the immediate area around the dip tube of sediment so you get a bit of shit at the start then it clears, and as long as the keg isn't disturbed, the sediment won't be either. At the end it's just because there's nothing left but sediment so it drags some up once the beer runs out.

No idea if finings affect yeast harvesting though, because I harvest from starters rather than the fermenter so I don't have to worry about it.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

Rocker1986 said:


> You will find the yeast drops out pretty good by itself in bottles, although I do use isinglass to speed it up because it's slower in a keg of course. However, I use it in the fermenter while it's cold crashing so I can leave it behind when it's kegged and I get hardly any sediment in them. Clear pours from the get go. The last pour when it blows dry sucks up a bit of yeast if I let it splutter too long but otherwise clear from start to finish.
> 
> Isinglass drops yeast just as effectively as gelatine, but rather than resulting in a jelly like sediment, it forms a very compact sediment.
> 
> Other haze could be chill haze. I use Polyclar to remove it, once again in the fermenter to leave it behind. I usually add it a couple of days after the isinglass. It works extremely well and to my taste doesn't negatively affect the flavour.
> 
> Alternatively you could use the biofine mentioned earlier which drops both yeast and chill haze causing things, and also doesn't result in a jelly sediment.
> 
> As for why some use these things, some of us like clear beer. It's no more wrong or right than not wanting it clear, just personal preference. The point is that there are much better products than gelatine to achieve it.


Can you use gelatin whilst cold crashing?


----------



## Rocker1986

You can, but like I said there are far better products out there that will do the same job without the jelly shit sediment.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

Rocker1986 said:


> You can, but like I said there are far better products out there that will do the same job without the jelly shit sediment.


So with insinglass how many pints of shite do you end up losing due to the sediment in the keg?


----------



## Garfield

You could always shorten your pick up tube so it draws beer from just above the sediment


----------



## Rocker1986

Tricky Dicky said:


> So with insinglass how many pints of shite do you end up losing due to the sediment in the keg?


None. That's my whole point. I also don't use it (or any other clearing agents) in the keg, I use it in the fermenter while the beer is cold crashing, it just settles out into the trub at the bottom and is left behind when the beer is transferred to the keg. I've never seen any need to shorten the dip tube, it's not necessary.


----------



## Garfield

Rocker1986 said:


> None. That's my whole point. I also don't use it (or any other clearing agents) in the keg, I use it in the fermenter while the beer is cold crashing, it just settles out into the trub at the bottom and is left behind when the beer is transferred to the keg. I've never seen any need to shorten the dip tube, it's not necessary.


None of this is necessary. We could all drink beer that is not clarified. We could also drink Tooheys since home brewing is unnecessary. We could also refrain from stifling someone's contribution to this discussion before hearing them out - as that too is unnecessary.

Anyway... Some of my dip tubes are shortened as I sometimes bulk prime a keg and naturally carbonate under pressure using a spunding valve. If anyone is interested in that idea there is lots of great posts on this and other forums. 

As for clarifying agents, I agree with your method 100%. On the occasions when I use finings, I add to the fermenter for cold settling before transfer to keg. It works a treat. Be aware, some finings work best if added at room temperature first and then cold settled. 

I would endorse either process to anyone currently asking for assistance. If you would like to change your process to start clarifying in fermenters (not kegs) then I strongly recommend Rockers method. But if you'll stick with keg fining (with gelatine, isinglass, etc) then I can personally vouch for shortening your dip tube a small amount. You'll waste a pint at the end of the keg as the tube won't be able to pick it up. But it sounds like you're losing a couple of beers to cloudy scum anyway.

So which pill Mr Smith? 

$0.02 c/o Garf


----------



## Rocker1986

I should have been clearer (pardon the pun), in that I don't see shortening dip tubes to be necessary when fining in the fermenter. I can see the value of it when using gelatine in a keg due to what it does to the sediment, but it may not be needed with other products like isinglass that result in a very compact sediment. Your own experience with it will determine whether or not you want to shorten the dip tube with those products.


----------



## Liam_snorkel

I've replaced some of the dip tubes on my kegs with floating ones from keg king (part of fermentasaurus, but you can get them individually). Just replace your diptube with a gas diptube and slot the silicon over it. with gelatin you have clear beer within a day, without pouring any trub.

8hrs after gelatin:
The keg is only partially carbed but there is 100g of dry hops in it and I only cold crashed for two days in the fermenter, the beer was almost murky last night (before gelatin).


----------



## Tricky Dicky

I put gelatin in the fv after cold crashing a couple of days and then kegged after another 2 days and got very clear results from the first pour. Much better results than putting gelatin into the keg.


----------



## Rocker1986

Good stuff mate. It always just made more sense to me to drop whatever out of the beer before it went into the kegs to minimise the amount of sediment in them. Same when I was bottling although I didn't bother adding anything to drop yeast out then because it did it well enough by itself in bottles. I have a lager in the FV at the moment on 3 degrees, it had its dose of isinglass last night and will get some Polyclar either tonight or tomorrow, and be kegged next Wednesday.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

devo said:


> For those here using Gelatine when you happen to have vegan or vegetarian friends over for a drink, do you inform them that Gelatine is used in your beer?


Not sure if this has been raised before but I've used a vegetarian gelatin product Jel-it-in and it works a treat.


----------



## Garfield

Tricky Dicky said:


> Not sure if this has been raised before but I've used a vegetarian gelatin product Jel-it-in and it works a treat.


That's carageenan which is a common fining agent (wirfloc, Irish moss, etc). At $6 per 100g (from woolies) you might be better off getting this from a brew supplier. Another vegan option is pvpp


----------



## Tricky Dicky

Garfield said:


> That's carageenan which is a common fining agent (wirfloc, Irish moss, etc). At $6 per 100g (from woolies) you might be better off getting this from a brew supplier. Another vegan option is pvpp


Why is it better to get this from a brew supplier?


----------



## Rocker1986

Carageenan isn't much use post fermentation anyway, it's a kettle fining.


----------



## Tricky Dicky

Rocker1986 said:


> Carageenan isn't much use post fermentation anyway, it's a kettle fining.


It clears my beer in the fv no problem and the beer tastes fine what am I missing?


----------



## Rocker1986

It's used late in the boil to coagulate and drop out hot break. It may be dropping out proteins in the fermenter which would assist in clarity, but there are products better suited to this purpose.


----------



## Garfield

Tricky Dicky said:


> Why is it better to get this from a brew supplier?


Just the price. You can buy a 1kg jar of wirfloc for $45 and it's probably more concentrated so you'll use less - 1g only to a 25L batch


----------



## Garfield

Rocker1986 said:


> Carageenan isn't much use post fermentation anyway, it's a kettle fining.


Sure it's not the normal practice and is sold to be a kettle fining. But can we assume he tells the truth that it's working to clarify a beer in the keg?

@Tricky Dicky, are you brewing grain or extract? Do you use any coagulants in the kettle? 

Carageenan is very versatile and has many uses in the food and beverage industry as well as pharmaceuticals. The
seaweed doesn't know where you plan to apply it's extract ; )

Indeed, there are other vegan finings to use in the keg


----------



## Tricky Dicky

Up to now it has been extract with my own hop tea additions and the gelatin in question has worked really well. I've just brewed my first partial mash plus LME with hop additions through the boil and have then added the gelatin post fermentation into the FV after 24 hours cold crash, I have previously cold crashed another 48 hours then kegged and so far its worked well. I did not add any clearing agents to the wort whilst boiling.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Was reading recently about Dhun Baria and the Tower of Silence, it reminded me of something I read some years ago about a test done on gelatine in the UK was found to contain human bones, it was tracked back to India and the source was the Tower of Silence.


----------



## ABG

wide eyed and legless said:


> I read some years ago about a test done on gelatine in the UK was found to contain human bones, it was tracked back to India and the source was the Tower of Silence.



Do you have any evidence to support this? I'm calling horse shit.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Blimey it would have to beat least 20 years ago, it was quite a big thing at the time.


----------

