# Style Of The Week 23/8/06 - English Barleywine



## Stuster (23/8/06)

So this week a style that should be good for next winter, English Barleywine, 19B on the BJCP style guidelines.

So grains, hops, yeast, tips on fermenting big beers. All the usual stuff.

(No links as I am on holiday in beautiful Anna Bay and the real estate agent is kindly letting me use her computer. :unsure: )

Tell us all you know about this big style.  



> 19B. English Barleywine
> Aroma: Very rich and strongly malty, often with a caramel-like aroma. May have moderate to strong fruitiness, often with a dried-fruit character. English hop aroma may range from mild to assertive. Alcohol aromatics may be low to moderate. The intensity of these aromatics often subsides with age. The aroma may have a rich character including bready, toasty, toffee, molasses, and/or treacle notes. Aged versions may have a sherry-like quality, possibly vinous or port-like aromatics, and generally more muted malt aromas. Low to no diacetyl.
> 
> Appearance: Color may range from rich gold to very dark amber or even dark brown. Often has ruby highlights, but should not be opaque. Low to moderate off-white head; may have low head retention. May be cloudy with chill haze at cooler temperatures, but generally clears to good to brilliant clarity as it warms. The color may appear to have great depth, as if viewed through a thick glass lens. High alcohol and viscosity may be visible in "legs" when beer is swirled in a glass.
> ...


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## Sean (23/8/06)

Stuster said:


> So this week a style that should be good for next winter, English Barleywine, 19B on the BJCP style guidelines.
> 
> So grains, hops, yeast, tips on fermenting big beers. All the usual stuff.
> 
> ...


Hmm. A horrible, sickly sweet, beer style if ever there was one. But the, I wouldn't include Robinsons Old Tom (which is a beautiful Winter Ale in cask form) in the style.


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## /// (23/8/06)

Well I have to disagree about sick and sweet Barley Wines.

I gotta say one of my favourite beers to drink and make. My MASTER Brewer also used to work for Bass Breweries and Bass #1 is noted as the first commercially availible style.

Some really nifty tricks I learnt from MASTER here;

* Get your water salts right due to the amount of hops
* Mix your grist bills, 50% Ale and Lager is fine
* Mash in at 64 C- rest 1 hour
* Run off - have at least a 6 pack on hand. First worts MUST be run off slow, at least 1 hours for the 1st worts, then start to speed up, so about a 2-3 hours for run

The run-off is a real test of patience and technique and is you really know your brewing. When your using almost 750-1kg per litre you need to really get the efficiency and make sure you are taking it easy.

* Lots of yeast
* Lots of owygens

Have I forgot to talk about 10-20% Sugar. This will stop the sweet and sickly profile...

Scotty


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## Sean (23/8/06)

/// said:


> Well I have to disagree about sick and sweet Barley Wines.
> 
> I gotta say one of my favourite beers to drink and make. My MASTER Brewer also used to work for Bass Breweries and Bass #1 is noted as the first commercially availible style.


Taste is ... a matter of taste. To mine, Barley Wine (Bass' included) _is _ horrible, sickly stuff. But then, quoting Bass at me in relation to English beer is about as convincing as quoting Fosters with regard to Australian beer. Enough said or I'll derail the thread.


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## tdh (29/8/06)

I'm a great fan of Barleywine too. With the right mash program etc as mentioned before by ///, right yeast choice and adequate bitterness to balance or rise above the high maltiness.

Surely someone else like Barleywine? Pedro? Darren?


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## Kai (29/8/06)

I like barleywine! Some of my fellow brewers don't seem to share my appreciation for drinking it out of secondary though.


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## Stuster (29/8/06)

Kai said:


> I like barleywine! Some of my fellow brewers don't seem to share my appreciation for drinking it out of secondary though.



:lol: :lol: :lol:


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## tangent (29/8/06)

check out basic brewing radio's interview: about brewing big beers. http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbr08-24-06.mp3
also to go with the interview - the dreaded Power Point presentation <_< http://www.briess.com/pdf/ONLY%20Customer%...nsenAHA2006.ppt

no affil, but i heard it today and thought it was interesting.


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## Darren (29/8/06)

I don't like english BW sas they are usually sickly sweet.

For me BW is hit and miss and it takes a good 12 months until you find out.

Long boil (2-3 hour), no aroma hops, and heaps of yeast should do the trick.

cheers

Darren


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## InCider (29/8/06)

At the risk of being booted out back to my sign-up date, is it possible to make BW from kit and kilo gear? 

I'm not sure where to start looking for recipes in the off-shelf range. 

Any pointers would be much appreciated :beer: 

InCider


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## Kai (29/8/06)

Yes it is possible, you would need a bit of sugar in there too as I find extract often does not attenuate well. The most important thing is making sure you have good fermentation management.


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## InCider (31/8/06)

Kai said:


> Yes it is possible, you would need a bit of sugar in there too as I find extract often does not attenuate well. The most important thing is making sure you have good fermentation management.



Thanks Kai, I'll give it some thought - I'm just cruisng through the recipes now.

Cheers,

InCider.


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## DarkFaerytale (31/8/06)

muntons does a kit, i remember reading somewhere about someone using two at once, i can't remember where tho

http://www.muntons.com/homebeer/countries/uk/prem_barley.htm

http://www.hbkitreviews.com/view-id-204.html

-Phill


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## GMK (31/8/06)

InCider said:


> At the risk of being booted out back to my sign-up date, is it possible to make BW from kit and kilo gear?
> 
> I'm not sure where to start looking for recipes in the off-shelf range.
> 
> ...



Yep..

I have made 2 Kits & Bits Barley Wines in the past that have managed a 3rd 2000 Aus Nationals and a 6th 2001 Aus Nationals - from memory here is the recipee

Used 2 x tins of Muntons Barley Wine.
3kg LME
approx 50gms of EKG
Did a 30 min biol of the hops and LME
OG was 1100Approx - aiming for 24ltrs - add some dextrose if u miss the OG
Used Wyeast Sweet Mead yeast - big big starter
Bottled at approx 1030 - no primimg sugar
Left for min of 9 months - but agree with Darren - 12-18months is alot better
Still had 2 bottles left that were 3 years old - they were excellent.

Currently have an All Grain Lees Harvest Barley Wine on tap with approx 30stubbies of the same bottle aging.


Hope this helps


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## InCider (31/8/06)

Thanks Phill & GMK! I really appreciate your help and will post the results when they're done. I'll take the recipe and let sit for the warmer months and tuck in next year. Sweet as!  

The reviews are tops, and the recipe is what I needed. 

Cheers,

InCider


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## GMK (31/8/06)

InCider said:


> Thanks Phill & GMK! I really appreciate your help and will post the results when they're done. I'll take the recipe and let sit for the warmer months and tuck in next year. Sweet as!
> 
> The reviews are tops, and the recipe is what I needed.
> 
> ...




Fantastic - glad to have helped... :super:


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## big d (31/8/06)

This is one style i am yet to brew so judging from the mixed reactions to barley wine are there any readily available products that i could purchase to get a taste of before i commit to 22 litres of the stuff which i may or may not like.

Cheers
Big D


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## DarkFaerytale (1/9/06)

here are some available ones i got thes from wikipedia

Canada

Olde Deuteronomy from Alley Kat Brewing Company 

England

Elizabethan Ale from Harvey's 
Golden Pride from Fuller's 
Bass No 1 Barley Wine from White Shield Brewery 
Old Tom from Robinson's 
Old Nick from Young's 
Gold Label from Whitbread 

USA

Horn Dog from Flying Dog Brewery 
Old Foghorn from Anchor Brewing Company 
Bigfoot Ale from Sierra Nevada Brewing Company 
Old Crustacean from Rogue Ales 
Monster Ale from Brooklyn Brewery 
Old Horizontal from Victory beer 
Old Boardhead from Full Sail Brewing Company 
Old Guardian from Stone Brewing Company 
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barley_wine"


here's a recipie from my vault i'm looking at putting down for next winter, it's from dodger dan


3kg light malt extract 
2.5 kg Pale Malt 
500g Cara Pils 
500 g Flaked Barley 
250g Roasted Barley 
250 g Chocolate Malt 
250 g Black Strap Molasses 
4 oz Northern Brewer
2 oz Fuggles
1 tsp Irish Moss 
Ale Yeast 
Champagne Yeast 

Mash crushed grains 60 -90 min 
collect 12 litres wort 
add remaining malt and molasses 
bring to boil 
add Northern Brewer 
add Fuggles and Irish Moss 40 min in 
Strain and top up tp 23 Litres 

Ferment as normal with Ale Yeast 

When it come times to bottling pitch the champgne yeast a few days before so when you prime this bad boy your yeast will have the legs to get the job done. 

Opens around 1095 

Store this for 6 months 


Dogger


-Phill


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## shotduck (1/9/06)

InCider said:


> At the risk of being booted out back to my sign-up date, is it possible to make BW from kit and kilo gear?


I know that several years ago the manager of the Country Brewer at Penrith entered a barley wine into the Bathurst comp that apparently used 6 tins of Brewiser Pilsner as the base... It came first! He had the plaque on proud display on the wall of the shop.

Cheers,
TSD


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## mike_hillyer (2/9/06)

I love this style and make it with a kit and malt, hops and sugar additives. Try Demerara sugar and invert it. If you are worried about it being a bit sweet add extra hops, low acid preferably golding flowers if you can get it.

With this style I drop it after 2 days of vigours fermentation to get most of the beer off the yeast and then I leave it in the second fermenter for about 3 weeks. Cellar the bottles at the lowest temp the yeast will work, about 16 C and prime with less sugar. Sample some at the 6 month, 12 month, they hit their straps at the 2 year mark. I use my best old king brown bottles and cap with the Cooper's lids which are better quality.

Finally, add a touch of Australia to the style. For this a slighly beefed up version of Coopers Vintage Ale using their yeast and some pride of ringwood flowers (easy with these  ) or whatever tickles your fancy.


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## InCider (2/9/06)

The Shot Duck said:


> InCider said:
> 
> 
> > At the risk of being booted out back to my sign-up date, is it possible to make BW from kit and kilo gear?
> ...



Fantastic - I shall begin rounding up the supplies for this special brew and take some time to get it right.

I think my brewing fridge will have to be used for the fermentation to keep the temp correct, so I had better take the tallies out and drink them. 

Keeping it real - thanks for the tip on the crown seals - have noticed when I have bought bulk ones from the HBS they are not usually as good as the ones from the supermarket - and I have shedloads of XXXX & Coopers crown seals.

InCider.


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## drsmurto (16/12/08)

Thread resurrection time.

I've read the Barleywine article in the latest BYO magazine. Twice.

Inspired? Trying to get rid of some hops? A little of both?

Been wondering for a while what to do with the Newport hops i bought a while back. According to Craftbrewer, a barleywine.

Big Bertha

Type: All Grain
Date: 18/12/2008 
Batch Size: 20.00 L
Brewer: DrSmurto 
Boil Size: 27.63 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 120 min Equipment: My Equipment 
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 

7.75 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.9 EBC) Grain 84.24 % 
0.40 kg Amber Malt (43.3 EBC) Grain 4.35 % 
0.40 kg Crystal Malt, Medium (Bairds) (170.0 EBC) Grain 4.35 % 
50.00 gm Newport [11.00 %] (60 min) Hops 50.2 IBU 
40.00 gm Newport [11.00 %] (10 min) Hops 14.6 IBU 
30.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (0 min) Hops - 
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 5.0 min) Misc 
0.65 kg Brown Sugar, Light (15.8 EBC) Sugar 7.07 % 
1 Pkgs London Ale (Wyeast Labs #1028) [Starter 4000 ml] Yeast-Ale 

Est Original Gravity: 1.099
Est Final Gravity: 1.023 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 10.02 % 
Bitterness: 64.8 IBU 
Est Color: 30.2 EBC 

Single infusion at 65C.

Is there any point in the late hops in a beer that needs to be conditioned for months/years? More?

Has anyone played around with kegging a barleywine, force carbing it (low) and then bottling it? 

Plan is to bottle it in time for the comp season.

Cheers and beers wine
DrSmurto


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## Stuster (16/12/08)

Looks good, good doctor, though I think you could up the bitterness a bit if you're planning on keeping it for years. I think it'd be good to use some late hops as you are. For one thing, you can see how they drop off for yourself as it ages (I certainly think it's good to try them from early on just to see what happens). I wonder about the light dark sugar. You should have plenty of other flavours going on there and personally I'd just stick with white sugar.

I'll post up my American barleywine which one best strong ale at Castle Hill comp. I've drunk most of the batch already, the best thing to do with hoppy ones IMO. But I've tucked a few away to keep and see what happens.



Batch Size: 16.00 L 
Boil Size: 21.93 L
Estimated OG: 1.106 SG
Estimated Color: 26.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 116.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 120 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
5.00 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.Grain 72.46 % 
1.00 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 14.49 % 
0.25 kg Amber Malt (43.3 EBC) Grain 3.62 % 
0.10 kg Crystal, Dark (Joe White) (216.7 EBC) Grain 1.45 % 
0.05 kg Caraaroma (Weyermann) (350.7 EBC) Grain 0.72 % 
65.00 gm Chinook [12.40 %] (60 min) Hops 90.5 IBU 
25.00 gm Centennial [9.50 %] (15 min) Hops 13.2 IBU 
25.00 gm Amarillo [9.50 %] (15 min) Hops 13.2 IBU 
25.00 gm Centennial [9.50 %] (0 min) Hops - 
25.00 gm Amarillo [9.50 %] (0 min) Hops - 
0.50 kg Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (2.0 EBC) Sugar 7.25 % 
1 Pkgs Safale American Ale (Fermentis #US-05) Yeast-Ale 

Actually slurry from an earlier batch was used, and I added some 2112 yeast at bottling. Carbed up slightly slowly but fine. FG was 1022, giving 80% attenuation and an 11% beer. :icon_drunk:


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## drsmurto (17/12/08)

I do have a yeast cake of US05 in the fridge.

Swap EKG with Cascade plugs, up IBU to 95-100 and its now an american barley wine.

Cheers for that
DrSmurto

p.s. if i win anything with it I'll be sure to acknowledge you!


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## drsmurto (15/1/09)

I ended up using 3 plugs of styrian goldings at FO and upping the IBU to 80.

Also used 1kg of munich to boost the JW trad.

Its been in secondary for 2 weeks now. How long do you normally let this sit bulk conditioning before bottling it? Was thinking of ccing it for a few days and hitting it with gelatine before racking it to a keg and letting it sit under low CO2 till the spring brewing comp season and then bottling from the keg.........

Tasted extremely bitter when i racked it, way beyond my uneducated tastebuds threshold. But i guess this is something that takes time for the flavours etc to mesh.


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## Tim F (13/5/11)

I'm brewing a half batch of English barleywine as I type. 

I'm aiming for 16L at around 1.080. The plan is to put 9L in the fermenter and get that going. In the mean time I will boil down the other 7L to bout 2L, boil it in fowlers jars, then add it back in once I have vigorous fermentation. Was thinking that might help encourage the yeast to ferment it out properly. That should give me an effective OG of 1.113 so if the S-04 gets 75%AA I'll have about 11.5% abv. Maybe a little low?

The grain bill is 95% ale malt 5% dark crystal - it's what I had. I also added 150g treacle and 300ml dark candi syrup, just because.

The hops are a little funny maybe but I wanted to use them up - a mix of hallertau and goldings to 57IBU, first wort hopped and additions at 45, 30, 15 leaning towards more goldings later in the boil.

I was thinking of starting fermentation at 18C then raising to 20 after a few days when I add the rest of the wort - does that make sense? Should I aerate again when I add the reduced wort?


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## Tim F (15/5/11)

Wow now thats a vigorous fermentation... I have 10L of wort and 10L of krausen right now. It's active enough to be keeping itself warm - held 20C overnight in a cold room. I was all set to heat it but now I'm think I might need to cool it instead.


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## Tim F (20/5/11)

Does anyone think dry hopping is inapropriate for this style? It's tasting ridiculously malty out of the fermenter even though I bittered to 70 IBU in the end. Getting lots of pear from the S-04 as well, which is making it a little bit cloying.


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## fcmcg (20/5/11)

Tim F said:


> Does anyone think dry hopping is inapropriate for this style? It's tasting ridiculously malty out of the fermenter even though I bittered to 70 IBU in the end. Getting lots of pear from the S-04 as well, which is making it a little bit cloying.


I did type a reply...dunno where it went...
DON"T DO IT !!!!
Let the bloody thing age before you touch it !!!
Inapropriate for an English style...
Cheers
Ferg


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## fcmcg (21/5/11)

Tim F said:


> Does anyone think dry hopping is inapropriate for this style? It's tasting ridiculously malty out of the fermenter even though I bittered to 70 IBU in the end. Getting lots of pear from the S-04 as well, which is making it a little bit cloying.


If you were doing an American barley wine as opposed to an English Barleywine...dry hopping inappropriate for the English style ..also..put it away and don't drink any for 12 months ( okay maybe one bottle lol )
The English one I made in march had an og of 1.108 and a fg of 1.014...I had a try of a stubby last month and I'm really looking forward to opening a few on my 40th in Aug next year !
Don't dry hop it ! 
Cheers
Ferg


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## drsmurto (21/5/11)

I wouldnt dry hop and english barleywine as Ferg has already pointed out.

My barleywine is now 2 years old and is tasting amazing.

Took out 1st place in the strong ale section in SABSOSA last year. :icon_cheers:


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## Tim F (22/5/11)

Cheers guys! I will let it do its thing. I realised it's still at 1.040 so should finish up a fair bit drier anyway.


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## Tim F (29/5/11)

OK next question - my barleywine has been stuck at 1.037 for the last 6 days. What's the next step to get it going? It's been sitting at 20C for most of that time, getting as low as 18 overnight. I just tried stirring the yeast back up - it had formed a nice compact layer on the bottom. No carbonation in the hydro sample any more. I'm using S-04. If stirring doesn't get things happening again, what's the next step? Use a higher gravity yeast, champagne yeast etc to finish it off? Transfer to secondary with a bit of the slurry included to see if that rouses it up?


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## drsmurto (29/5/11)

Tim F said:


> OK next question - my barleywine has been stuck at 1.037 for the last 6 days. What's the next step to get it going? It's been sitting at 20C for most of that time, getting as low as 18 overnight. I just tried stirring the yeast back up - it had formed a nice compact layer on the bottom. No carbonation in the hydro sample any more. I'm using S-04. If stirring doesn't get things happening again, what's the next step? Use a higher gravity yeast, champagne yeast etc to finish it off? Transfer to secondary with a bit of the slurry included to see if that rouses it up?



Rack it.

The physical act of racking creates turbulence which stirs the yeast up. I find this a very useful way of restarting a stuck ferment.

For big beers i tend to do this once fermentation looks finished and then give them another 2-3 weeks in secondary at a few degrees higher than ferment temp.

If this doesn't work then throw in a more attenuative yeast. I'd still be using a beer yeast, nottingham comes to mind although i am not a fan of it personally it is renowned for its attenuation.

What temp did you mash at? OG?


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## O'Henry (29/5/11)

I'd rack it to secondary then keep it at at least 22C, raising it to 24C after a few days. 

I might even pop in 50-100g of sugar to get it going again and encourage it to drop a few more points off the 1037. I'd be resigning myself to it not getting below 1030 though. If you hit 1113 and the yeast has a 75% attenuation average, then 1028/29 is the lowest you could expect a perfect ferment to go.

Edit: beaten again!


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## Tim F (29/5/11)

Cheers guys,

I mashed at 65 and OG was 1.107. I was expecting it to get down to around 1.026 so still a little to go. I did wonder though - to get to that OG I pulled out 4L of wort and reduced it down to 2L. I wondered if that might have made a difference to fermentability?

Anyway I think racking is the go, I will do that tonight! Should I let a little bit of yeast from the bottom of the fermenter come through to the secondary?


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## drsmurto (29/5/11)

Tim F said:


> Cheers guys,
> 
> I mashed at 65 and OG was 1.107. I was expecting it to get down to around 1.026 so still a little to go. I did wonder though - to get to that OG I pulled out 4L of wort and reduced it down to 2L. I wondered if that might have made a difference to fermentability?
> 
> Anyway I think racking is the go, I will do that tonight! Should I let a little bit of yeast from the bottom of the fermenter come through to the secondary?



No need to bring yeast through IMO, there will be plenty still in suspension.

S-04 isn't a very good attenuator and 65C isn't a low mash temp on a beer this size so you may not get it below 1.030.


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## haysie (29/5/11)

Tim F said:


> OK next question - my barleywine has been stuck at 1.037 for the last 6 days. What's the next step to get it going? It's been sitting at 20C for most of that time, getting as low as 18 overnight. I just tried stirring the yeast back up - it had formed a nice compact layer on the bottom. No carbonation in the hydro sample any more. I'm using S-04. If stirring doesn't get things happening again, what's the next step? Use a higher gravity yeast, champagne yeast etc to finish it off? Transfer to secondary with a bit of the slurry included to see if that rouses it up?



I dont think you chose the right yeast.


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## amiddler (29/5/11)

I did my first Barley Wine early this year and settled for a 1.038 after a 1.120 start. I tryed everything, new yeast, different strain of yeast, secondary, warm up, and nothing worked. It tastes OK after 3 months but time will tell. 

Tim, are you planning on kegging or bottling? I bottled with half the sugar I should have incase of bottle bombs and carb looks OK. I like the look of the Dr's advice, might have to settle a touch higher with the FG.

Drew


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## Tim F (29/5/11)

haysie said:


> I dont think you chose the right yeast.


Yep it wasn't my first choice, but I could only get in to Brewcraft which meant a choice of S04, Muntons or US05 



Drew said:


> Tim, are you planning on kegging or bottling? I bottled with half the sugar I should have incase of bottle bombs and carb looks OK. I like the look of the Dr's advice, might have to settle a touch higher with the FG.
> 
> Drew



I'm thinking bottling for this one - but keep it very low carbonation like you did.


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## Tim F (2/6/11)

Racked, held at 24C for 4 days, no change. Might be time for a different yeast, I think 1.037 is still a little high too finish!?


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## drsmurto (3/6/11)

Tim F said:


> Racked, held at 24C for 4 days, no change. Might be time for a different yeast, I think 1.037 is still a little high too finish!?



Do you have any champagne yeast? 

I have ~5g in my fridge you are welcome too. It's not a huge amount but if you rehydrate it first it should get it down below 1.030 which equates to 70% apparent attenuation.

Or the packet of Nottingham.

Or the M1 distillers yeast.


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## Tim F (3/6/11)

That'd be awesome if you could spare a little champagne yeast! I will pm.


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## Tim F (16/8/11)

Well after errr forgetting this was sitting in secondary in the corner of my study for nearly 3 months I sampled it tonight and was surprised to find it is tasting great but still 1.036. I don't think it's going any lower, time to bottle!


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## manticle (9/5/12)

Something I'm looking at doing soon


Type:	All grain
Size:	15 liters
Color: 40 HCU (~19 SRM) 
Bitterness: 80 IBU
OG:	1.133
FG:	1.030
Alcohol:	13.3% v/v (10.4% w/w)
Grain:	8kg Simpsons MO
500g Simpsons heritage crystal
Mash:	60% efficiency, 
TEMP: 55/62/68/72/78
TIME: 5/30/20/10/10
Boil: 120 minutes, SG 1.080, 25 liters
1kg Invert sugar (might incrementally feed some of this post fermentation)
Hops:	20g Target (9% AA, 90 min.)
20g Challenger (6.5% AA, 90 min.)
20g Challenger (6.5% AA, 60 min.)
40g Challenger (6.5% AA, 20 min.)

Bulk age 9-12 months.

Wyeast 1028 or similar and lots of it. May use the gyle to build a huge starter as I'll be No chilling

No sparge/very small sparge if needed. May run off some separate runnings for a small gyle.

Critique welcome


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## black_labb (9/5/12)

with an og of 1133 and the crystal I'd be upping the bitterness to atleast 100ibu if not higher, even with the sugar. I'd possibly cut the sugar back a bit but that's just me.

Never done a barley wine but I've been planning one


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## manticle (9/5/12)

I'm considering dropping the crystal and going all pale malt (MO).

Not sure I can get any more than 100 IBU in there theoretically.

Sugar at this point is also optional - anything from 500g to 1 kg. Might opt for 800g which is what I do with my Belgian golden strong - 200 to boil and the rest in 200g lots post fermentation.

Slight tweaking (120 min boil will mean the colour is a little darker than suggested). I'm aiming for a slightly bigger fullers golden pride type (not clone) which is about 50 IBU and 8.2%abv


Type:	All grain	
Size:	15 liters
Color: 11 HCU (~8 SRM) 
Bitterness: 80 IBU
OG: 1.122
FG: 1.030
Alcohol:	11.9% v/v (9.3% w/w)
Grain:	8kg Simpsons MO
Mash:	60% efficiency
Boil: 120 minutes	SG 1.073	25 liters
0.8kg Invert sugar (200g to boil, 200g increments post ferment)
Hops:	15g Target (9% AA, 90 min.)
15g Challenger (6.5% AA, 90 min.)
5g Target (9% AA, 60 min.)
20g Challenger (6.5% AA, 60 min.)
40g Challenger (6.5% AA, 20 min.)


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## black_labb (9/5/12)

manticle said:


> I'm considering dropping the crystal and going all pale malt (MO).
> 
> Not sure I can get any more than 100 IBU in there theoretically.
> 
> Sugar at this point is also optional - anything from 500g to 1 kg. Might opt for 800g which is what I do with my Belgian golden strong - 200 to boil and the rest in 200g lots post fermentation.



I was going to say that I would use something like biscuit or similar instead of the crystal but decided against it as that is what I would do and not necessarily better. The 100% MO would work out nicely, especially with the melanoidens from the long boil. 

While it is harder to get over the 100 ibu I think with the recipe theoretical IBU will still be lower than the 80 you calculated. Adding more hops will result in diminishing returns but I'd still aim for higher bitterness. 

Sounds good


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## manticle (9/5/12)

Most UK things I use biscuit or victory. I guess the simpler the better with so many things going on but victory wouldn't be out of place.

I'll probably leave the hopping schedule roughly where it is (maybe a tweak here and there). I was going to FWH the 90 minute additions but that would mean either shortening the boil or boiling hops for 2 hours which supposedly breaks down pleasant compounds into unpleasant ones (according to the classic styles book on Barley wines anyway)


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## donburke (9/5/12)

quite timely this popping up this morning,

last night me and 2 mates brewed an english barleywine

we started at 5pm and finished at 11pm with everything washed and packed up

my brewery performed differently with a brew this big, 

firstly, the grain retained less water so we had a slightly larger boil volume 65 litres vs expected 62 litres (i put this down to the larger volume of grain compressing the grains beneath it effectively squeezing more liquor from the grains)

secondly, the boil off was more than i normally get, i assume that the boil off was the same in litres but as i had less boil volume to start with the percentage is greater)

these 2 difference actually worked well to compensate for each other

i had estimated an efficiency of 65% and ended up with 67%

pre boil gravity of 65 litres was 1.082 and we didnt measure post boil, but we boiled it down to 50 litres so we should have 1.105

looked like cottees caramel topping, it was that thick

we have 3 cubes of 15 litres that we will all ferment with different yeasts and share in coming months

mine will be pitched onto the whole yeast cake of a 1.064 beer that was fermented with 1882 thames valley ale ii

recipe is as follows,and i am looking forward to the final result

Style: English Barleywine
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 50.00 L 
Boil Size: 61.27 L
Estimated OG: 1.105 SG
Estimated Color: 28.4 EBC
Estimated IBU: 42.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 67.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
15.00 kg Pale Malt, Golden Promise (5.9 EBC) Grain 60.36 % 
9.00 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.Grain 36.22 % 
0.50 kg Crystal Medium (Thomas Fawcett) (150.0 EBCGrain 2.01 % 
0.35 kg Special B Malt (300.0 EBC) Grain 1.41 % 
50.00 gm Fuggles [3.80 %] (90 min) (First Wort HopHops 7.5 IBU 
50.00 gm Styrian Goldings [3.50 %] (90 min) (FirstHops 6.9 IBU 
50.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.10 %] (90 min) (FiHops 10.0 IBU 
100.00 gm Williamette [4.60 %] (90 min) (First WortHops 18.1 IBU 
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
20.00 gm Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 24.85 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
75 min Mash In Add 70.00 L of water at 73.9 C 67.5 C 
10 min Mash Out Heat to 78.0 C over 10 min 78.0 C 


Notes:
------
FILL 3 X 15 LITRE CUBES


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## raven19 (9/5/12)

manticle said:


> Type: All grain
> Size: 15 liters
> Color: 11 HCU (~8 SRM)
> Bitterness: 80 IBU
> ...



You may be pleasantly suprised in the yeast's ability to get this down to your desired FG without the incremental sugar additions. I had good success with about 700ml of thick 1469 fresh slurry and aerated wort, getting an 1100+ OG down to the 1020's recently in my big EBW (which is now in bottles stored away out of sight).

+1 on upping the bitterness (albiet maybe only anther 10BU's, especially if this is to be put away to age (I suspect yes based on 1100+ OG?)


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## donburke (9/5/12)

donburke said:


> quite timely this popping up this morning,
> 
> last night me and 2 mates brewed an english barleywine
> 
> ...



sorry, just on this, online yeast calculators tell me i need approx 280 billion cells to ferment 15 litres of 1.105

the same calculator estimates that i have approx 760 billion cells in my yeast cake from the previous brew

i keep reading that you need heaps of yeast for these kinds of beers, and so i have heaps of yeast

does anyone see any major issues with me pitching directly onto this yeast cake ? (the yeast cake is quite clean with minimal trub) 

should i bother oxygenating the wort with this much yeast or just splashing into the fermenter from the cube ?


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## manticle (9/5/12)

raven19 said:


> You may be pleasantly suprised in the yeast's ability to get this down to your desired FG without the incremental sugar additions. I had good success with about 700ml of thick 1469 fresh slurry and aerated wort, getting an 1100+ OG down to the 1020's recently in my big EBW (which is now in bottles stored away out of sight).
> 
> +1 on upping the bitterness (albiet maybe only anther 10BU's, especially if this is to be put away to age (I suspect yes based on 1100+ OG?)



9-12 months bulk aged in glass, then bottled and put away for another 9-10.

I'll have a look at the bitterness but if it really does get down further than 1030, that will change perception too. UK style parameters (not just BJCP but actual examples I've read about) tend to be 80 IBU or less although my OG is also pushing the outer edges. Only UK example I've tried has been fullers which is much less on all fronts. I've had a couple of HB and AU microbrewed examples as well but they tend to follow the US trends a bit closer.

I've also had to knock my efficiency back by 10% from usual due to the high amount of malt, but that is just a guess based on nothing currently. Maybe when I get the SG of the wort, I'll be able to tweak the hop additions accordingly to hit 80-85, possibly 90.


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## black_labb (9/5/12)

I've been planning this one, Though I may cut back on the vienna 

40% MO
25% Vienna
25% JW Trad Ale
10% Biscuit (probably home roasted)

OG:1100 roughly

60 IBU of Pacific gem at 60mins
40 IBU of Pacific gem at 20 mins 

Probably ferment it on a ringwood yeast cake or maybe 1469. I'll do it as a partigyle and turn the sparge into a bitter that will be used for the yeast cake. 

the pacific gem should work well though I'm tempted to use some challenger as well at the 20 mins.


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## donburke (10/5/12)

donburke said:


> sorry, just on this, online yeast calculators tell me i need approx 280 billion cells to ferment 15 litres of 1.105
> 
> the same calculator estimates that i have approx 760 billion cells in my yeast cake from the previous brew
> 
> ...



ended up pitching onto the yeastcake last night and gave it 60 sec of o2, pitched at 14 deg and in the fridge at 14 deg

after reading an article on maltose falcons website about big beers, they suggest keeping it really cool in the first 24 hours as during the growth phase the yeast can put out bad esters because of all the massive amounts of food and o2 

the also suggested a shot of o2 every 4 hours, but i value my sleep more than this beer  

this morning i have a 3 inch krausen and its chugging away at a nice steady pace, i might leave it at this lower temp for a few days before raising a couple of degrees, although wy1882 has a recommended ferment temp as low as 15 degrees

measured og 1.107 ... lets see how low it goes


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## raven19 (10/5/12)

manticle said:


> 9-12 months bulk aged in glass, then bottled and put away for another 9-10.
> 
> I'll have a look at the bitterness but if it really does get down further than 1030, that will change perception too. UK style parameters (not just BJCP but actual examples I've read about) tend to be 80 IBU or less although my OG is also pushing the outer edges. Only UK example I've tried has been fullers which is much less on all fronts. I've had a couple of HB and AU microbrewed examples as well but they tend to follow the US trends a bit closer.
> 
> I've also had to knock my efficiency back by 10% from usual due to the high amount of malt, but that is just a guess based on nothing currently. Maybe when I get the SG of the wort, I'll be able to tweak the hop additions accordingly to hit 80-85, possibly 90.



Defo drop your planned efficiency with such a big OG. I tend to aim for 50-55 for these massive beers.

Partigyle to get an EIPA/EPA could be a goer too?

I tend to max out the MT then adjust the hopping IBU's in the EBW (first runnings plus sometimes part of the 2nd runnings) to suit.

Totally agree that if your FG drops more than expected (as it did in mine disappointingly!) you will want to leave IBU as is.


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## manticle (10/5/12)

I'll be running off at least one gyle to use as a starter/build up yeast. I treat my starters gently so 'll get an ordinary bitter out of it.


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## donburke (10/5/12)

manticle said:


> I'll be running off at least one gyle to use as a starter/build up yeast. I treat my starters gently so 'll get an ordinary bitter out of it.




this article from maltose falcons recommends a starter wort of 1.060

http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/thinkin...ewing-big-beers

kind of makes sense to condition the yeast to work in a higher nutrient and subsequent alcoholic environment


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## TheWiggman (30/8/14)

Decided to expand my horizons and did one of these today.

```
BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.comRecipe: English BarleywineBrewer: TheWiggmanAsst Brewer: Style: English BarleywineTYPE: All GrainTaste: (30.0) Recipe Specifications--------------------------Boil Size: 16.36 lPost Boil Volume: 13.52 lBatch Size (fermenter): 11.50 l   Bottling Volume: 10.75 lEstimated OG: 1.091 SGEstimated Color: 25.1 EBCEstimated IBU: 44.2 IBUsBrewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %Est Mash Efficiency: 91.2 %Boil Time: 90 MinutesIngredients:------------Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         3.60 kg               Pale (Traditional Ale) Malt - JW (6.9 EB Grain         1        80.5 %        0.17 kg               Crystal, Dark - Barret Burston (250.0 EB Grain         3        3.8 %         0.45 kg               Carapils - Weyermann (4.5 EBC)           Grain         2        10.1 %        39.00 g               Northdown [7.10 %] - Boil 60.0 min       Hop           4        44.2 IBUs     7.00 g                Goldings, East Kent [5.70 %] - Boil 0.0  Hop           6        0.0 IBUs      7.00 g                Target [11.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min          Hop           7        0.0 IBUs      1.0 pkg               English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) [35.49  Yeast         8        -             0.25 kg               Honey [Boil for10 min](2.0 EBC)          Sugar         5        5.6 %         Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Medium BodyTotal Grain Weight: 4.47 kg----------------------------Name              Description                             Step Temperat Step Time     Saccharification  Add 13.97 l of water at 71.0 C          66.0 C        60 min        Mash Out          Add -0.05 l of water and heat to 76.0 C 76.0 C        10 min        Sparge: Fly sparge with 9.66 l water at 76 CNotes:------OG: 1090FG: 1019ABV: 9.6%
```
Sparge was almost stuck (even though I have a HERMS) and took around 2h to do. Measured OG was 1.090, jagged it. I extended the boil to just under 2 hours and called it quits early because the whirlfloc and honey had been in there long enough. The system is not as efficient with bigger beers. Will know for next time.

Using Wyeast 1028 London Ale in a 1l stirred starter, a little warm at 22°C. Going to let it ferment out and put it in a few dedicated bottles, where it will reside for at least 12 months (but I've have one to crack open at the midway point). If it's any good might even consider it for a competition.

Ed: checked using hydrometer, updated.


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