# Vic Secret, Falconers + Chinook = Good / bad idea?



## DanWeLL (28/4/14)

Afternoon all,

I have 20g's of Vic Secret, Chinook and Falconers Flight in the freezer and was wondering if they would work together.

I know the Falconers flight is a blend of citra, galaxy and others and chinook / vic secret are similar. 

The only thing would be the timing as Vic secret works best as a late addition, or should I throw them in equally, spaced as desired?

Cheers


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## hoppy2B (28/4/14)

No reason they shouldn't work well together.

Work out your average Alpha Acid levels by adding the 3 AA figures together and dividing by 3. Work out how many IBU you want and just chuck the whole lot in together and boil for that amount of time, be it 20 minutes or whatever. That's what I would do.


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## DanWeLL (28/4/14)

hoppy2B said:


> No reason they shouldn't work well together.
> 
> Work out your average Alpha Acid levels by adding the 3 AA figures together and dividing by 3. Work out how many IBU you want and just chuck the whole lot in together and boil for that amount of time, be it 20 minutes or whatever. That's what I would do.


No worries, I was hoping for someone who had tried them or reports on grassiness etc. 

I do have a batch with the JSPA schedule someone posted about ready to bottle. It was Amarillo, Cascade and Nelson Sauvin 10g @ 20min, 5g @ 12min and 5g @ 5mins.... but the amount of time I fluffed around double sieveing and washing the FV out twice (dont ask!!) it might be more like 25min, 17 and 10...

What I trying to ask, round a bouts, is would it be better to add little bits of each at each stage, or say use the best bittering hops full 20g first at say 20mins, then full amount of one of the others at 5 - 10mins, then the full amount of last at flameout / dry hop? Or would that result in a less rounded profile?

Cheers


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## indica86 (28/4/14)

Chinook similar to Vic Secret? Really?


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## mrsupraboy (28/4/14)

Hey mate jspa is all hops at 15mins

Galaxy to 9 IBU @ 15 mins
Nelsin Sauvin to 6 IBU @ 15 mins
Willamette to 3 IBU @ 15 mins
Amarillo to 3 IBU @ 15 mins


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## DanWeLL (28/4/14)

mrsupraboy said:


> Hey mate jspa is all hops at 15mins
> 
> Galaxy to 9 IBU @ 15 mins
> Nelsin Sauvin to 6 IBU @ 15 mins
> ...


I know, but I bumped em to 20 to get extra bitterness as I was using the Brewtoad recipe maker and it had a sliding scale : I adjust the hops times up until it changed from sweet -> blanced. And the extra 5 mins was from accidentally dropping the sieve into the FV and having to decant, wash and try again, holding the sieve firmly second time round.



indica86 said:


> Chinook similar to Vic Secret? Really?


I was reading forum earlier and came accross DrSmurto reply where he describes Vic Secret as being similar to Chinook : http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/70432-victorias-secret-where-to-buy/#entry1018651


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## indica86 (28/4/14)

I thought Chinook was responsible for the dank hoppiness countering the fruit in a lot of US hops. Vic Secret I have brewed in a pale and it was - for me - melons and mango.


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## DanWeLL (28/4/14)

What's the deal with the timestamps on posts being AM and the quotes being the correct PM time? Or have I potted one too many brews tonight?


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## browndog (28/4/14)

To me you have the grapefruit of Chinook, the citrus of Falconers and to me Vic secret is off to the left of them with quite a fruit salad note. I would not mix it with the other two, it's awesome as a standalone hop though.


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## DanWeLL (28/4/14)

indica86 said:


> I thought Chinook was responsible for the dank hoppiness countering the fruit in a lot of US hops. Vic Secret I have brewed in a pale and it was - for me - melons and mango.


Hrmm, so dump the chinook in @ 30 for bitterness and make the Vic Secret and Falconers in later then?

Eg : 

Chinook 20g @ 30mins
Vic Secret 10g @ 5min
Falconers Flight 10g @ 5min
Vic / Falconer 10g each dry hop 3/4 days before bottle

Should give approx 30 ish IBU using Thomas Cooper Lager Can, 1.5kg Wheat malt, 250g 120L Crystal, 300g LDME and 250g Maltodextrin plus US-05


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## indica86 (28/4/14)

Sounds good.
Vic secret and FF I have really enjoyed in pales.
Unfortunately I didn't make any notes to go with my Chinook beers....


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## DanWeLL (28/4/14)

browndog said:


> To me you have the grapefruit of Chinook, the citrus of Falconers and to me Vic secret is off to the left of them with quite a fruit salad note. I would not mix it with the other two, it's awesome as a standalone hop though.


I also have 20g packs of Centennial and Citra tucked away too... 

Damm this HB stuff, too many variables, not enough time to drink it all!

Based on that, sub out the Vic for the Citra and keep it for another day, possible order another 50 / 100g to use it as a single hop ;-)


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## indica86 (28/4/14)

20g packets???

Centennial and Citra are good friends....


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## DanWeLL (28/4/14)

indica86 said:


> Sounds good.
> Vic secret and FF I have really enjoyed in pales.
> Unfortunately I didn't make any notes to go with my Chinook beers....


So the 30mins should render out most of its flavour then?



browndog said:


> To me you have the grapefruit of Chinook, the citrus of Falconers and to me Vic secret is off to the left of them with quite a fruit salad note. I would not mix it with the other two, it's awesome as a standalone hop though.


Dr Smurto stated Vic had lots of grapfruit too...

Maybe just make it, see what happens, get drunk and adjust as needed! LOL


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## DanWeLL (28/4/14)

indica86 said:


> 20g packets???
> 
> Centennial and Citra are good friends....


Yep. Foil sealed and gel cooled in transit all the way from FNQ brew shop... I was using the prepacked 15g tea bags before this and thought 20g would be plenty!!

Then I began boiling....

Im guessing get the flavours I like and then begin the bulk purchases... Sugers too are going to be cheaper in bulk!


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## DanWeLL (28/4/14)

indica86 said:


> 20g packets???
> 
> Centennial and Citra are good friends....


Plan was for Hop Thief 5 brew... getting.... creative!!


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## hoppy2B (29/4/14)

Chinook is often described as piney. Having grown it I would agree with that description. Its a bit of a higher note than citrus type hops and should give a bit of zing to any fruity hop combo. I would expect it to lift and enhance any citrus that you would find in something like Cascade. Cascade being described as mandarin, I don't find it to be very citrusy though, or at least not very sharp.

From the description in the original post of Vic Secret I would have expected the hop combo quoted to work well.

You'd be correct if you got the impression that I don't subscribe to all this fluffing around where hops are put in here and there in dribs and drabs. I'm a fan of the 20 minute addition because it gives the oils a good opportunity to dissolve into the hot wort for maximum flavour. Occasionally I dry hop.


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## Yob (29/4/14)

Adding hops at various times adds complexity to the flavour you just can't get from a single addition, I do and I don't depending on the amount of clouds that pass directly overhead on brewday. I always dry hop.


@ the op, I'd be sorely tempted to go with your initial plan, Vic secret is certainly piny but of a different nature to the chinook, fruit and pine = win


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## DanWeLL (29/4/14)

Yob said:


> Adding hops at various times adds complexity to the flavour you just can't get from a single addition, I do and I don't depending on the amount of clouds that pass directly overhead on brewday. I always dry hop.
> 
> 
> @ the op, I'd be sorely tempted to go with your initial plan, Vic secret is certainly piny but of a different nature to the chinook, fruit and pine = win


You mean the one with the Chinook all in @ 30, and split the vic and falconers between the late addition and the dry hop? 

Thinking about it would give a pinny base, with grapefruit overtones and medium gf / pine aroma.


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## hoppy2B (30/4/14)

As far as I'm aware Chinook is a good late hop. It certainly gets the 'Craft Brewer Darling' rating. 

I don't dry hop all the time because over the summer months I like to make brews with good ester profiles. I have great respect for Yob's hop expertise and think I will do much dry hopping over winter based on his advice.


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