# Pommie Pressure Barrel



## manmantis (30/9/09)

Hi all, 

After a gap of several years, and a relocation from the UK, I am just dusting off my old home-brew equipment.  

Now, in the UK I used 5 gallon plastic pressure barrels for secondary fermentation/conditioning/dispensing. These have a 2 1/4 inch screw cap on top & a tap at the base to dispense your beer. I used to much prefer the convenience of this system to bottling all my beer.

I have 2 of these with me now (one sadly leaking). However the only screw cap I have is damaged (the internal aluminium part has degraded) & I need to find a replacement.

As I recall (and my memory is a little fuzzy on this), I used to use a CO2 canister to prime my barrel when I transferred from the fermenter to the barrel. However a trip to my local homebrew supplies store has given me nothing but blank looks. :huh: 

Does anyone know where I can get a replacement cap for this type of barrel, and/or CO2 canisters & cap fittings?

I have attached photos of the barrel (tap & cap removed) & top cap

Cheers.


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## mwd (30/9/09)

Had one of them back in the 80's in the U.K.

Fairly sure nobody here in Australia stocks them or even something similar.
Need somebody to get them here in OZ could make a fortune Ross you looking.?

homebrewshop uk 

may have what you are looking for if they ship here.

Otherwise a mate in the U.K. could post.

CO2 bottles might be a major problem though unless the thread is the same as sparklets.


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## manmantis (1/10/09)

Thanks,

So it looks like I have a "Hambledon Bard Inlet and pressure release valve" fitting on my cap.


The valve assembly detaches from the plastic cap reasonably easily. So I could either get a replacement & then find something locally that would fit it to deliver CO2 (some sort of adapter?), or get a different fitting that would take whatever CO2 alternatives I can get here.

Someone I know suggested I could use Sodastream bottles to deliver my CO2 charge, but I'm not sure where I would get a valve assembly to fit both that & the cap I have. Does that sound feasible?

Cheers.


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## muckanic (9/10/09)

I have one of these, albeit with separate gas intake and pressure relief valves. Your problem is more than just corroded metal - there doesn't appear to be any pressure relief band around the stem above the cap.

I'm a bit of a kegging noob, but AFAIAA the Sodastream bottles have a male thread, and that could be a major hassle. Sure, you might be able to find an adapter, but that will mean you wind up screwing the bottle down into the adapter rather than down into the inlet. The Hambledon thread could also be a little odd - it may be 7/16", but I'm not sure whether it is BSP or not. All of this is an argument for replacing the valves with something local. You may not need an integrated gas intake/pressure relief valve as the latter can always be raided from a garden sprayer. Or see your LHBS for kegging parts. I would also consider replacing the plastic Waddington Duval tap with something rated for higher pressure, as it tends to function as a pressure relief valve when you don't want it to.  The tap does have the advantage, however, of delivering a beer engine type of milky pint that clears from the bottom up, presumably because of some sort of turbulence that is generated. Dunno whether a more up-market tap would behave the same.


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## mwd (9/10/09)

These type of barrels do not have a pressure relief valve as they do not use the gas to dispense the beer.

The CO2 cylinder is purely for carbing the beer in the barrel and keeping the space full of a CO2. The gas bottle sits on the valve and you just give it a twist every few days as the beer gets flat as the level drops.

Not very sophisticated as the beer is gravity dispensed from the tap into the glass.

(BribieG may have more information on these type of barrels.)They were very common in the U.K.


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## manmantis (10/10/09)

Tropical_Brews said:


> Not very sophisticated as the beer is gravity dispensed from the tap into the glass.



I'm not a very sophisticated guy!  


You're quite right though, all I used to do was "prime" the barrel on initial fill, and then give it another burst every now & again as I drank my way down the barrel.

I suspect that in the not-too-distant future I'm going to have to take the plunge & invest in some kegging gear...although it niggles at me that I should be able to get the "old faithful" working again. Just a valve to fit the "sparklets" or sodastream bottles would do.

I have a simple Woodefordes Wherry kit that a nice relative has just sent over from the UK, I may throw it through & figure it out along the way!

Cheers.


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## Bribie G (10/10/09)

I had a couple of these in the UK in the 70s. The idea is to carbonate them with priming sugar to provide an initial serving pressure, then when that runs out to use those little green CO2 bulbs in an injector built into the cap, to keep a slight top pressure on the beer. It's a perfect system for Real Ale style beers. They are still huge in the UK although a lot of them are going over to the dark side and getting cornies.

I would seriously suggest joining the forum Jims Beer Kit: http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/index.php
and post there. If your pressure barrel is still current you could probably get a spare cap sent out from the manufacturer with minimal postage.

I agree that if these barrels could be imported at the right price they would be a huge hit here for ale brewers. They have their limitations in serving Aus style or Euro style lagers as the beer does turn out a little 'flat' for style, because the serving pressure is low and the body of the beer is lightly carbonated, but bloody super for bitters and milds and American ales.


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## manmantis (10/10/09)

Thanks, although really it's not the cap that's the issue...it's getting a CO2 cannister to fit which is the problem.

I suspect customs wouldn't be too keen to let those little CO2 bulbs through!


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## TidalPete (11/10/09)

manmantis,

:icon_offtopic: 

Sorry mate but can't help myself after a few when it comes to correcting the Good Queen's English.
Pommy or not must you get the gist of the correct way to spell "Pommy" which, TTBOMK is an abbreviation of the letters stamped on the original convicts backs ---- *P*risoner *o*f *M*other *E*nglind. Thus "POME" which has been watered down over the years to be just Pommy or Pommy Bastard as we affectionally know you all.
Keep on sending your produce out to here to keep the Asain\East European hordes at bay I implore you. :super: 
This is how it should be even if Misguided Butters has the bad luck to meet me & my 3 younger brothers in a dark alley when he is on a Policically Correctness kick. :lol: 
We * WILL *get the Ashes back next time I'm sure of that but you really need to practice your One Day Cricket plays old son. :lol: 

TP


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## reviled (11/10/09)

For something a bit closer to home maybe, www.haurakihomebrew.co.nz sells similair pressure barrels and may have parts, I believe they just use a soda stream canister for Co2


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## /// (11/10/09)

The CO2 bulbs are the same used for 'keg chargers' locally?? So, you may need only to get the fittings??

Scotty


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## RdeVjun (11/10/09)

Never seen these before, but as someone being dragged reluctantly towards kegging, these are very attractive and seem to fit the bill rather well. I only brew ales, and with reasonably low carbonation at that, so these seem to fit the bill. The self- contained thing I especially like, no gas hose, bottle, regulator, seperate dispenser etc. 

The shape seems a bit inefficient for space in a fridge though, but I guess the spherical pressure vessel will make the engineering simpler for plastic. Luckily I have several fridges though, I might even tempmate one for ale serving temperature and fill it with a few of these and even stash a few bottles in remaining spaces.

Hauraki Homebrew have the Rotokeg for NZ$165, plenty in the UK too for 40-50 quid, but Hauraki seem to be the closest to here. Different types and fittings abound at Hopandgrape (UK), the pressure barrels and spares section has Hambledon Bard, just sure if that's what you need, manmantis?

I just don't know, in fact it is fairly unlikely, that I could get these plastic kegs landed here any cheaper than setting up with a few cornies, not that cost is the only issue of course. Anyway, many thanks guys for the heads- up with these, I have about three batches- worth of TTL to bottle today and each time I pull the Superautomatica lever I'll probably be thinking of kegs and cursing...


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## dataphage (11/10/09)

I used to have something like that which I had to abandon when I came to Aus.

Mine had a float to carry the outlet pipe which sat on top of the beer so you were always getting beer from the top of the barrel where it was clearest. This served the best home brewed bitters and gave a very authentic pint - I'm getting all misty eyed just thinking about it.

I haven't investigated getting another since I moved to Aus as I've got little space for a second fridge and didn't think the summer heat would do the beer much good. Though you might be okay in Tas.


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## manmantis (11/10/09)

dataphage said:


> I used to have something like that which I had to abandon when I came to Aus.
> 
> Mine had a float to carry the outlet pipe which sat on top of the beer so you were always getting beer from the top of the barrel where it was clearest. This served the best home brewed bitters and gave a very authentic pint - I'm getting all misty eyed just thinking about it.
> 
> I haven't investigated getting another since I moved to Aus as I've got little space for a second fridge and didn't think the summer heat would do the beer much good. Though you might be okay in Tas.



Yep, got one of those floating siphons in the barrel. Pig of a thing to get in there in the first place, given that the top is only 2 1/4 inches diameter! It means you can start drawing off at 14 days and it siphons from below the tap level so no untidy tipping of the barrel to get out the last few drops. And you're quite right, no problem with heat here in Tassie!


I have developed a taste for the more carbonated beer over here, and I'll get onto brewing my own versions in time I'm sure. However there's nothing like the taste of the brew(s) you grew up with, which in my case require less fizz!

I'll have a look around for what I can get for fitting CO2 cannisters. If I can get a "keg charger" to fit the original fitting, then I need only replace what I have & it's a straight swap. If not, then getting a fitting for a soda-stream cannister will probably be the next best option.


I suspect I'll have to look further afield than my local brewing suppliers though...not much choice/range/expertise here in Burnie. Might need to wait for my next trip over to Launceston or Hobart.

...Oh, and thanks for that TidalPete! I might take issue, not with being a Pommy bastard (no problem with that), but with the etymological derivation of the word...but thats a discussion for a whole other thread. And as for the Cricket, well I spent 17 miserable years watching my boys get thrashed by your lot, so I'll take every ounce of enjoyment I can out of the next 14 months...it won't last! One-dayers? Not real cricket!

Cheers for your help everyone!


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## kook (11/10/09)

Which part is on the cap, is it the pressure relief valve, or the filling valve (or are they the same?).

If it's just the filling valve, it wouldn't be difficult to replace it with a gas post from a corny keg, then use a keg charger to give it a squirt of CO2.


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## DennisKing (12/10/09)

In 30 odd years of brewing I`ve always used polypins, don`t know if you get them in Auss. if not here's an example http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtop...f=6&t=11340 I`ve always liked these because I want to drink traditional British real ale so don`t want to add any extra CO2. However I`ve bought 2 second hand pressure barrels for 5. including a gas canister. At that price you can afford to experiment. Reading other posts on the Jims site a lot of people say they can keep pressure right to the end without adding gas which would suit me. Have a batch in one at the moment will start drinking in about 2 weeks.


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## Ragmans Coat (12/10/09)

My dad used these for his beer in the UK and they were great. Would love a couple myself so i do not have to wash blasted bottles. Is there a homebrew store who flogs them?


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## DennisKing (12/10/09)

Ragmans Coat said:


> My dad used these for his beer in the UK and they were great. Would love a couple myself so i do not have to wash blasted bottles. Is there a homebrew store who flogs them?


Think most UK homebrew shops sell them


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## Ragmans Coat (12/10/09)

Easier said than done Dennis. Unfortunately a transplanted pom. I live near Cairns (nth qld) these days


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## muckanic (12/10/09)

Tropical_Brews said:


> These type of barrels do not have a pressure relief valve ...



Incorrect.



Tropical_Brews said:


> ... as they do not use the gas to dispense the beer. Not very sophisticated as the beer is gravity dispensed from the tap into the glass.



Incorrect. I also have a King Keg with a top mounted tap, and the CO2 (either natural or bottled) is perfectly capable of pushing the beer uphill. It takes a surprisingly low amount of pressure BTW.


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## T.D. (12/10/09)

Ragmans Coat said:


> Easier said than done Dennis. Unfortunately a transplanted pom. I live near Cairns (nth qld) these days



Hasn't QLD got enough poms??

Then again, better up there than down in NSW...


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## muckanic (12/10/09)

manmantis said:


> Thanks, although really it's not the cap that's the issue...it's getting a CO2 cannister to fit which is the problem.
> 
> I suspect customs wouldn't be too keen to let those little CO2 bulbs through!



You're not limited to sparklet-type cylinders. I used to use a 350-ish g Hambleton Bard cylinder, about the same size as a Sodastream.

The simplest way to go is to get an adapter that connects a Sodastream bottle to a gas regulator. Some of the sponsors here will do you one for $39 plus postage, or look further afield. Now, instead of screwing the adapter into a regulator, get hold of a backnut and a couple of washers and fix it to your cap instead. The backnut thread could be a bit of hassle because the adapter doesn't look BSP to me from a casual inspection. This discussion: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...2329&st=210 suggests it might be 5/8-18UNF.

Next problem is the pressure relief valve. I would seriously consider dispensing with it, as either the cap or the tap ought to blow long before the barrel deforms.

Lastly, as I suggested before, the tap is crying out for an upgrade if you've got the readies. A 3/4" metal ball valve would be the simplest and cheapest way to go here, plus backnut and washers of course. Optionally, get a threaded tap so that some sort of sparkler device can be improvised, like one of those fine mesh filters for kitchen taps. I guess the desirability of this feature depends upon whether you're a northern or southern Pom. B) A quick look at the sponsor's sites suggests they only do 1/2" ball valves, so that might require a trip to an irrigation specialist (provided you are happy to use nickel-plated brass). Plenty of folks do on their boilers, and I can't really see any additional problem with fermented beer.


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## muckanic (12/10/09)

muckanic said:


> Now, instead of screwing the adapter into a regulator, get hold of a backnut and a couple of washers and fix it to your cap instead. The backnut thread could be a bit of hassle because the adapter doesn't look BSP to me from a casual inspection.



Edit: I incorrectly assumed the adapter contains a one-way valve. It doesn't, so either the adapter needs to be adapted to the existing valve in the cap (more thread incompatability hassles), or some sort of gas tap needs to be added in-line as well. Starts to get messy and expensive.


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## WSC (24/6/10)

For these kegs that have the top tap and the float could you ferment in one, crash chill, prime and wait 3 weeks then serve straigh from the keg.

That is ferment and serve from the one vessel?

One of these costs 45 punds so they are not cheap.

With the float and the top tap though you would always get realtively clear beer.

Just a thought, the fridge space would be the downside though I guess.

What does everyone think?


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## Bribie G (24/6/10)

The problem is the same as with Corny kegs that you sugar prime (to save a few pennies worth of gas). It goes really well for the first few pints, then when the pressurised headspace reverts to atmospheric (maybe a third of the way down the keg) you still have to pump some extra CO2 into the headspace. Once you have got over the initial cost setup hurdle, then at $55 each Cornies win out every time.
The reason that pressure barrels are so popular in the UK is that they don't have that initial "hurdle", you can just buy one with its injector already fitted and away you go, usually keep ale in your garage at serving temp most of the year. However I've never heard of anyone actually fermenting in one. They can be a bitch to clean out.


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