# Wanting To Try A Partial



## Siborg (16/2/10)

I want to try ag, but i thought it might be an idea to try a partial first. Any one have any good recipes or can you point me in the right direction? I don't mind doing smaller batches for now. What size pot will I need? Any other gear I may need?


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## zebba (16/2/10)

The point of partials (as I understand it) is to be able to brew with grain using the gear you already have. All you really need is a pot and an appropriate bag (or strainer).

So what gear do you already have? How big a pot do you have? Do you have 2 big pots? How about an esky with a tap?

At a simple level, doing a partial is really not that different to steeping some specialty grains. If we have an idea of the gear you have already, then that can help answering your questions.


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## Siborg (16/2/10)

Zebba said:


> The point of partials (as I understand it) is to be able to brew with grain using the gear you already have. All you really need is a pot and an appropriate bag (or strainer).
> 
> So what gear do you already have? How big a pot do you have? Do you have 2 big pots? How about an esky with a tap?
> 
> At a simple level, doing a partial is really not that different to steeping some specialty grains. If we have an idea of the gear you have already, then that can help answering your questions.


I have a couple of 8-10L pots. I have an old esky with a tap I may be able to use as we don't use it much. I'll need a mash tun later anyway, so I may as well start on one. I have a large strainer. No fabric to use as a bag yet.


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## phinnsfotos (16/2/10)

Basic Brewing Radio has some podcasts about doing partials with an unmodified esky (with a tap).

September 14, 2006 - Making Ciders & Countertop Mashing
Ben Watson, author of Cider, Hard and Sweet: History, Traditions, and Making Your Own, joins us to introduce us to the world of homemade ciders. Also, Chris Colby of Brew Your Own magazine lets us in on his method of partial mashing using an unmodified two-gallon drinking cooler.
http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbr09-14-06.mp3

October 4, 2007 - Countertop Partial Mashing Revisited
Chris Colby of Brew Your Own magazine gives us an update on what he's learned about doing partial mashes with a countertop cooler.
http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing...artialmash2.mp3

September 10, 2009 - Partially Crazy
Chris Colby, editor of Brew Your Own magazine, revisits his countertop partial mashing technique with some recipes that are a bit out of the ordinary.
http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing...0-09partial.mp3

I haven't tried the method myself but it's inspired me to give it a try.

Cheers,
Finn.


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## manticle (16/2/10)

Siborg said:


> I want to try ag, but i thought it might be an idea to try a partial first. Any one have any good recipes or can you point me in the right direction? I don't mind doing smaller batches for now. What size pot will I need? Any other gear I may need?



What kind of beers do you like? I can hunt up some old recipes when I get home this afternoon.


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## glaab (16/2/10)

I might get shot down for this but I wanted to be sure the starch was converted fully so I went and got some iodine.. I know a lot don't bother but I wanted to be sure I was doing it right, I expect I can do away with it later. As for recipes, this doc will explain how to convert AG to partials or extract. Cheers
View attachment convert_mash_to_extract.pdf


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## Swinging Beef (16/2/10)

10litre pots mean you wont be able to make a batch any bigger than about 8 litres.
having said that, you can do a double batch.
There was an artikle years back in the US BYO magazine, and they called it the Texas two step.
It just takes heaps more time, mate.

My suggestion to you, would be get the biggest cheap pot you can get your hands on, and two mayo buckets and do the bucket in a bucket mash tun thing.


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## Nick JD (16/2/10)

Have a read of this thead. It lists the bare necessities for mashing grain successfully.


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## Bribie G (16/2/10)

Hmm I think that a couple of the posters have missed the point somewhat, that you want to do a _partial_ and not a little _AG_ batch. Anyway, if you already have a 10l stockpot and an old esky, here's what I used to do:







Decor container from Woolies will mash up to 2k of grain
Prepare a water bath at 68 degrees in the esky
Mix grain and hot water to fill the decor, aim for around 66 degrees (Add water at around 75 degrees and as you get to the full volume, adjust with hot or cold water, tricky but you'll get the hang of it)
Place the Decor in the esky, put lids on of course and walk away for an hour.
Strain the mash through the big strainer ($5 from Go Lo or Sam's) into the 10L pot. Put mash back in the decor, fill again with hot water at about 75 degrees and strain again into pot. This is sparging.
Keep going until you have collected about 9 litres, meanwhile bringing the pot to the boil on the burner or stovetop
Watching carefully for boilovers, boil for an hour with hop additions at the start and then about ten minutes before the end of the boil. use some swiss voile or cheesecloth to make little hop 'teabags' if you like.
Cover stockpot and carefully place in laundry sink with cold water supply to cool the wort.

Then it depends what style you are after, I used to do a very nice little Carlton lookalike using 2k of Pilsener malt and a bland kit such as Coopers Canadian and 500g of dex, and a yeast such as US-05. IMHO it will turn out almost as good as an AG and miles ahead of a simple kit brew.

Happy brewing. :super: 

PS I still use all the bits, the Decor now holds my brewing salts, polyclar and whirlfloc and I use the pots for boiling up adjuncts such as rice, and the strainers when I'm steeping or washing my sushi rice  , so no money wasted in equipment.


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## zebba (16/2/10)

That's pretty much what I thought he was asking Briby, but for a recipe it's hard to give one without knowing how big a mash he can do.

Personally, I can do about 13-14lt of 5% abv (whilst maintaining SOME efficiency) with my 15lt pot, so I load in what grains I want that are going to impart real flavour (cara-xxxx, crystal, vienna, pilsner, biscuit, etc), do my mash/boil, and just pad out to my desired batch size with LDME when I throw it into the fermenter (or settle with 13-14lt going into the fermenter  ). That works fine when the LDME is just padding out what would have been more pale malt anyway, but if someone is doing an even smaller batch (i.e 8lt) I wouldn't feel qualified to comment and reckon my advice would be pretty poor, and if they had a 20lt pot, I'd suggest they just do an AG batch - cause what's 4 litres between mates?

(Oh, and good post btw Briby)


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## Siborg (16/2/10)

Nick JD said:


> Have a read of this thead. It lists the bare necessities for mashing grain successfully.


Nick, I've read through that thread many, many times. Don't worry... I'll be trying that very soon. Now, is that recipe you use an AG batch? And its AG using BIAB? I need to source those grains and may even have to get them shipped. I think I want to try a partial first to see the difference. But I would like the idea of doing a smaller partial batch (ie. 9L) like you have used in that thread, more for the purpose of learning and trial and error.



BribieG said:


> Hmm I think that a couple of the posters have missed the point somewhat, that you want to do a _partial_ and not a little _AG_ batch. Anyway, if you already have a 10l stockpot and an old esky, here's what I used to do:
> 
> 
> Decor container from Woolies will mash up to 2k of grain
> ...


What size is the decor container? How big a batch will that do? I want to try smaller batches, as per NickJD's post. Then again, if I have to do a bigger batch, I'm not too fussed.

Cheers guys!


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## Siborg (16/2/10)

manticle said:


> What kind of beers do you like? I can hunt up some old recipes when I get home this afternoon.


Big fan of the pale ales at the moment. Pretty much like anything as long as the flavours aren't too outrageous, like chocolate stouts etc.


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## thanme (16/2/10)

I think that's one of the 8L containers??

Sweet post Bribie


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## Bribie G (16/2/10)

Yup just checked, it's 8.5L and will handle 2k of grain at the most. If you wanted to do, say a 10L brew you could use 2k of Ale malt, 750g of light dried malt extract and a single 15g addition of Pride of Ringwood or 10g Superpride, ferment with cultured-up Coopers yeast and you'd end up with a good pale ale, Sparkling style. However for me, 10L would just be a tease


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## Siborg (16/2/10)

BribieG said:


> Yup just checked, it's 8.5L and will handle 2k of grain at the most. If you wanted to do, say a 10L brew you could use 2k of Ale malt, 750g of light dried malt extract and a single 15g addition of Pride of Ringwood or 10g Superpride, ferment with cultured-up Coopers yeast and you'd end up with a good pale ale, Sparkling style. However for me, 10L would just be a tease



Well thats the thing... I think I'll try it that way and see. If I really like it, I'll find a way to do a 20L batch. Could I use Safale US05 instead of coopers yeast? And at what stage would I do the hop addition and for how long?


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## manticle (16/2/10)

1 kg pilsner malt
500g vienna malt
500g munich malt
200g biscuit malt

Mash 60 minutes with 5 litres water at 65 degrees, drain and sparge with 7 litres water

= 10 litres in the kettle. Boil 60 minutes

Add 40g [email protected] 60 minutes
[email protected] 20 minutes
10g at flameout

Dissolve 1.5 kg ldme in hot wort and chill with lid on in a water bath. 

Add to fermenter, top up to 20 Litres with boiled cooled water.

Yeast either US05 or German ale yeast WY1007

Assuming a 60 % efficiency, preboil gravity: 1040 OG: 1048
Bitterness: 36 IBU

Assuming FG of 1010: ABV = 4.9%

This is a partial version of a current recipe favourite of mine.


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## Siborg (16/2/10)

Just downloaded the beersmith trial. I'll have a play with a few numbers and see what I get.


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## Siborg (16/2/10)

manticle said:


> 1 kg pilsner malt
> 500g vienna malt
> 500g munich malt
> 200g biscuit malt
> ...


Couple of questions, manticle:
Mash at 65C, so strike temp should be around 73C? Can I strain the first mash straight into the pot for boiling? What temp sparge water do I use? and sparging is pouring that 7 litres of water through the strainer with all the grain in it, yeah?

With the hops... what is flameout? and how long do I leave the hops in there at those times? (I'll probably put em in bags)

Sorry for all the questions. I actually wanna try this, but I wanna make sure I've got it right.


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## manticle (16/2/10)

Siborg said:


> Couple of questions, manticle:
> Mash at 65C, so strike temp should be around 73C? Can I strain the first mash straight into the pot for boiling? What temp sparge water do I use? and sparging is pouring that 7 litres of water through the strainer with all the grain in it, yeah?
> 
> With the hops... what is flameout? and how long do I leave the hops in there at those times? (I'll probably put em in bags)
> ...



Calculating strike temp is something you'll need to figure out for your equipment. Mine is usually about 10 degrees above but some are less. Use 73 as a start and adjust with boiling/cold water (bit by bit) as you mash in.

There can be some issues with pouring hot wort although I used to be pretty rough with mine when I did partials. If you can use the esky with the tap just attach some silicon hose so you can drain into the bottom of the pot and minimise splashing.

Sparge water around 75 - 78 degrees. To sparge just pour the sparge water in to whatever your mashing vessel is, leave 10 minutes to settle again, then drain.

Flameout is the end of the boil (0 minutes). 

Hops stay in so first addition at the start of the boil. I boil for 15 minutes before adding my first addition and beginning the timing of the boil - suopposedly it helps drive off DMS (di-methyl sulfide, a beer fault).

ie - first addition, boil for 40 minutes then add second addition, boil for another 20 minutes, add last addition and chill pot. When ready to pitch you can take the bags out.

Don't apologise for asking questions.


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## Siborg (16/2/10)

manticle said:


> Calculating strike temp is something you'll need to figure out for your equipment. Mine is usually about 10 degrees above but some are less. Use 73 as a start and adjust with boiling/cold water (bit by bit) as you mash in.
> 
> There can be some issues with pouring hot wort although I used to be pretty rough with mine when I did partials. If you can use the esky with the tap just attach some silicon hose so you can drain into the bottom of the pot and minimise splashing.
> 
> ...


hmmm. So the way I see it, I still need a small to medium esky (enough to hold at least 5 liters) and have a tap. I already have some clear hose to drain into the pot. Speaking of pots I'll need a larger pot. The ones I have at the moment would be lucky to fit 10L at the brim, and I'd need to allow for overboil. Some hops bags would be good as well. 

Should be able to do this with minimal outlay. Just need to source the ingredients, I'll try the place in greensy as Heidelberg doesn't seem to have half of those grains. 

Thanks again, manticle


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## Siborg (16/2/10)

Just found a 6 pack esky. It holds bang on 5L. Would that be big enough, considering I'd have to fit in 2.2kg of grain as well? Could I do it all in the esky, using a little less mashing water and a little more sparge water? The only thing is that it doesn't have a tap, but I suppose I could just strain into the pot, put the grains back in the esky and sparge... Oh. Wouldn't fit 7L of sparge water in there. Better get a 10L WITH a tap.


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## manticle (16/2/10)

Siborg said:


> hmmm. So the way I see it, I still need a small to medium esky (enough to hold at least 5 liters) and have a tap. I already have some clear hose to drain into the pot. Speaking of pots I'll need a larger pot. The ones I have at the moment would be lucky to fit 10L at the brim, and I'd need to allow for overboil. Some hops bags would be good as well.
> 
> Should be able to do this with minimal outlay. Just need to source the ingredients, I'll try the place in greensy as Heidelberg doesn't seem to have half of those grains.
> 
> Thanks again, manticle



5 litres of liquid plus the grain. 10 L would probably do it. 15 L pot would probably do (kmart sell them pretty cheap). Also try asian grocerys for larger cheap stock pots (particularly if you're thinking of moving to AG or full volume boils).


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## Siborg (16/2/10)

_So_ after a little thought, manticle, I have come up with the following (steps in italics):

*Manticle's Partial Recipe:*



*Grain:*

1Kg Pilsner Malt

500g Vienna Malt

500g Munich Malt

200g Biscuit Malt

Total Grain: 2.2Kg



*Mash:*

5 litres at 65C for 1 hour (calculate strike temp ~73C)

_Bring 5L of water to ~75C_

_Add grain when close to 65C_

_Insulate and let sit for 1 hour_

_Strain into 15L boil pot_

_Return grain to mashing vessel_

_Add 7L of 75-78C water to mashing vessel, leave for 10 mins_

_Strain into boil pot_

Final wort volume: ~10L



*Boil:*

_Boil for 15 mins (drive off DMS)_

_Start counter (60 mins), add 40g of Tettnanger Hops_

_After 40mins add another 40g of Tettnanger Hops_

_At 60mins add final 10g of Tettnanger Hops_



*Chill:*

_Dissolve 1.5Kg of light dry malt extract (LDME) in the wort_

_Put lid on_

_Chill in water/ice bath until temp around 25C_



*Final Steps:*

_Pour wort into fermenter_

_Top up to 20L_

_Pitch yeast_




I'm thinking I can use one of my 8-10L pots to mash in, as long as I insulate it enough to hold temp. I'll need to buy a minimum of 15L stockpot (with lid) as I don't have anything big enough to accommodate 10L of wort plus heat break! I'll also need some material to make hops bags out of.

Can anyone see anything I've missed?


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## manticle (16/2/10)

Siborg said:


> Can anyone see anything I've missed?
> 
> 
> *Manticle's Partial Recipe:*
> ...


_

_Not sure about this bit. Grain will absorb temp which is why the water should be hotter than the proposed mash temp. Add water, add grain immediately, stir gently, check temp and adjust as needed. Have cold and boiling water on hand, use sparingly and wait for temp to adjust. You can get a feel for how to add a bit of grain, a bit of water etc - I normally start with water (1/3 total) add 1/3 grain, read temp and stir gently. I repeat until all water and grain are in tun and temp is right.




> _Insulate and let sit for 1 hour
> 
> Strain into 15L boil pot
> 
> Return grain to mashing vessel_



If you strain through the tap (if you end up using an esky), the grain will remain in the vessel. You may need some kind of mesh in front of the outlet inside (a cut up kitchen strainer would do). Therefore no need to return the grain as it should remain in place.



> _Add 7L of 75-78C water to mashing vessel, leave for 10 mins_
> 
> _Strain into boil pot_
> 
> ...



You should be able to buy very cheap hop bags at a good brew shop. Otherwise just chuck them straight in. They'll settle out during ferment.

Hope it turns out well for you chief.


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## Siborg (16/2/10)

Thanks for the clarification re temp control during mashing. I'll take that into consideration.

I probably won't be using an esky. I have a 48L esky with a tap that I am going to convert into a mash tun eventually, but I think it would be way too big for this brew. And I don't see the point in buying a 10L esky (especially in my financial state) when I'll probably switch to my big one when I get around to modding it.

Yeah, I've seen those hops bags at the homebrew shop in Heidelberg, I nearly bought some last time. I'll get some when I go to buy the grain from wherever has the goods and at the right price.


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## manticle (16/2/10)

I understand budget constraints very well.

You could siphon the wort out of your pot with a bit of silicon hose. Just don't burn your mouth.


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## rendo (16/2/10)

Hi Guys,

I too am getting close to doing some partials. I have just bought some specialty grain, so thats a step in the right direction, steeping only though, but i was going to imitate a mash of it, why not hey.

What I am surprised about is the use of eskies, insulation as such etc. I "thought" that you keep the grain on the stove top for 30mins as such and keep the temp around the 65deg mark etc. I have a very accurate gas stove that I should be able to do this with, without much drama. Is this a good option? Or is it best to 'mash' in an esky like container. 

I have always thought that alot of water will evaporate during this process? and also the boil process when adding hops etc? true? do you need to top up? 



manticle said:


> I understand budget constraints very well.
> 
> You could siphon the wort out of your pot with a bit of silicon hose. Just don't burn your mouth.


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## manticle (16/2/10)

rendo said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I too am getting close to doing some partials. I have just bought some specialty grain, so thats a step in the right direction, steeping only though, but i was going to imitate a mash of it, why not hey.
> 
> ...



Eskies are used a lot in mash brewing because they can keep the temperature fairly constant. You can do it with a pot but it requires closer monitoring and is less simple. Temperature is important in mash brewing as it determines the fermentability of the product and even a degree or so either way can make a big difference. No need to sweat it too much at this point - that's just why those recommendations exist.

Some water will evaporate during the boil. During the mash you can cover the pot (helps insulate) so not a big drama there. You can compensate by topping up etc but it's better practice to calculate how much strike and sparge water you need in the first place to account for the losses. As you get to know your equipmnet it becomes easier to work that out.


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## rendo (16/2/10)

Well I REALLY did learn something 2nite then.

I never thought that eskies would hold the temp that WELL, down to a few degrees or better. Anyway.....sounds good. Will get there soon-ish.

Thanks again for the education 




manticle said:


> Eskies are used a lot in mash brewing because they can keep the temperature fairly constant. You can do it with a pot but it requires closer monitoring and is less simple. Temperature is important in mash brewing as it determines the fermentability of the product and even a degree or so either way can make a big difference. No need to sweat it too much at this point - that's just why those recommendations exist.
> 
> Some water will evaporate during the boil. During the mash you can cover the pot (helps insulate) so not a big drama there. You can compensate by topping up etc but it's better practice to calculate how much strike and sparge water you need in the first place to account for the losses. As you get to know your equipmnet it becomes easier to work that out.


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## shonks69 (17/2/10)

Hi All

Good thread for us beginners, Thanks Manticle for your help & guidance. I'll also be looking forward to try this recipe, possibly my first partial unless someone has a good recipe for an Australian style Bitter.
Best of luck Rendo

Cheers
Shonks :icon_cheers:


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## manticle (17/2/10)

shonks69 said:


> Hi All
> 
> Good thread for us beginners, Thanks Manticle for your help & guidance. I'll also be looking forward to try this recipe, possibly my first partial unless someone has a good recipe for an Australian style Bitter.
> Best of luck Rendo
> ...



The above was a conversion of a full mash recipe I've used so I have faith in it. I've not made an Australian bitter but with a little tweak you could use a similar recipe. I'd sub out the vienna for 50/50 wheat malt/ale malt and replace the 60 minute tett addition with Pride of Ringwood. The alpha acid percentage in Pride is higher than tett so you'll need to adjust to get the same IBU.

I'd then drop the 20 minute addition of tett. The flameout addition of tett is up to you (hallertau or saaz might also be nice). For yeast use either US05 or reculture some Coopers yeast.

Otherwise I'd try converting Andrew QLD's Coopers Sparkling Clone into a partial mash.

Found here: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...&recipe=829


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## Siborg (17/2/10)

manticle said:


> The above was a conversion of a full mash recipe I've used so I have faith in it. I've not made an Australian bitter but with a little tweak you could use a similar recipe. I'd sub out the vienna for 50/50 wheat malt/ale malt and replace the 60 minute tett addition with Pride of Ringwood. The alpha acid percentage in Pride is higher than tett so you'll need to adjust to get the same IBU.
> 
> I'd then drop the 20 minute addition of tett. The flameout addition of tett is up to you (hallertau or saaz might also be nice). For yeast use either US05 or reculture some Coopers yeast.
> 
> ...


Hey, maticle. I went to that store in greensy today and spoke to Dave for a bit. Their prices are awesome, and Dave was really helpful. The only thing from that recipe he said he couldn't get was the biscuit malt, but he suggested a simpsons aromatic as a close substitute. What do you reckon, go with it? Or should I try and track down some biscuit malt?


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## cubbie (17/2/10)

Siborg diid you look at this thread http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...?showtopic=5393

It is a sticky in the All Grain and Partial forum.


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## Siborg (17/2/10)

cubbie said:


> Siborg diid you look at this thread http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...?showtopic=5393
> 
> It is a sticky in the All Grain and Partial forum.



Didn't see that one, mate. Too many forums on this site! I'll have a look, thanks.


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## manticle (17/2/10)

Siborg said:


> Hey, maticle. I went to that store in greensy today and spoke to Dave for a bit. Their prices are awesome, and Dave was really helpful. The only thing from that recipe he said he couldn't get was the biscuit malt, but he suggested a simpsons aromatic as a close substitute. What do you reckon, go with it? Or should I try and track down some biscuit malt?



I have a love affair with biscuit malt. It brings a certain something to all the brews it goes in. A good vienna malt like weyerman's will bring a similar quality. Toast and nuts would be the best description. Since there's vienna in there already you could potentially ditch the biscuit with no major harm and just up the vienna to 1.2 kg.

I've never used aromatic myself so I don't know how similar they'd be. I've also never been to GHBS but I've never heard a bad word about it or about Dave.

You can order biscuit from grain and grape. Just grab a couple of other things to make the 7.50 postage price worth it (anything up to 20 kg which is a fair wack).


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## shonks69 (18/2/10)

manticle said:


> The above was a conversion of a full mash recipe I've used so I have faith in it. I've not made an Australian bitter but with a little tweak you could use a similar recipe. I'd sub out the vienna for 50/50 wheat malt/ale malt and replace the 60 minute tett addition with Pride of Ringwood. The alpha acid percentage in Pride is higher than tett so you'll need to adjust to get the same IBU.
> 
> I'd then drop the 20 minute addition of tett. The flameout addition of tett is up to you (hallertau or saaz might also be nice). For yeast use either US05 or reculture some Coopers yeast.
> 
> ...



Thanks Mate
I'll give the Bitter a red hot go

Cheers


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## Siborg (18/2/10)

manticle said:


> I understand budget constraints very well.
> 
> You could siphon the wort out of your pot with a bit of silicon hose. Just don't burn your mouth.



Siphon, ey? So with a bit of hose, siphon the wort out of my pot (mash tun) into the boiler? Where would I place my strainer to avoid sucking the grains out as well?

Probably gonna give this a go on Wednesday. Just need a big pot, and I'm thinking, to save money, I'll just throw the hops straight in.


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## manticle (18/2/10)

I guess I should have said :

'maybe you could siphon your wort out?' as it's not something I've actually done. Purely hypothetical.

If I were to do it, I'd try something ridiculous like cutting up a cheap kitchen strainer and attaching the mesh to silicon hose with a tight rubber band or two. I have no idea whether this will work. A tap in the pot is ideal but if you're going to go that far you'll be almost set-up for all grain..

When I used to do partials I scooped grain into a large colander over the boil pot. If you did this you could then siphon the wort into the boil pot and return the grain to the pot for a sparge. Use a fine strainer to scoop out any bits of grain that fall through the colander.


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## Siborg (18/2/10)

manticle said:


> ...something ridiculous like cutting up a cheap kitchen strainer and attaching the mesh to silicon hose with a tight rubber band or two



Believe me... The thought had crossed my mind. Hmmmm. :unsure:


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## Siborg (18/2/10)

Also, for beersmith purposes, what style would you rank that recipe under?


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## manticle (18/2/10)

I call it Golden Tett.

I'm not really sure if it fits a style guideline exactly although it isn't overly complicated or different. Just german style malts, german hops and german yeast so you'd figure it could fit in with something.

Try kolsch or blonde although I don't pretend it exactly fits the BJCP guidelines of either.

To make it work to its best potential - ferment till finished, leave on the cake another 3-5 days, cold condition in a fridge 3-5 days and fine with gelatine or isinglass.

Cold conditioning can be as long as you like but 3 days minimum.


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## Siborg (18/2/10)

manticle said:


> I call it Golden Tett.
> 
> I'm not really sure if it fits a style guideline exactly although it isn't overly complicated or different. Just german style malts, german hops and german yeast so you'd figure it could fit in with something.
> 
> ...


Hmm. Don't have a fridge that I can cold condition in, and I've never used gelatine before. I'll be getting a broken down fridge this weekend, maybe I can put some frozen plastic bottles of water in there to keep it chilled?

I'll read the sticky on using gelatine.


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## manticle (18/2/10)

Siborg said:


> Hmm. Don't have a fridge that I can cold condition in, and I've never used gelatine before. I'll be getting a broken down fridge this weekend, maybe I can put some frozen plastic bottles of water in there to keep it chilled?
> 
> I'll read the sticky on using gelatine.



Piece of piss - boil up water, let cool for 5-10 minutes, dissolve 1 tsp of gelatine thoroughly, coverwith glad wrap and let cool further (below 50 degrees is good but no too cold or you will get jelly).

Add gently to your brew, no need to stir. Leave at least 24 hours.

A dead fridge with bottles will help as will a sink full of water with bottles. Ideally you want the temp below 4 degrees but even below 10 will help. It's to help drop the yeast which results in clearer and cleaner tasting beer.

If you can't, it just may need a bit more time in the bottles before drinking. Don't sweat.


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## TrenthamTripper (19/2/10)

manticle said:


> 1 kg pilsner malt
> 500g vienna malt
> 500g munich malt
> 200g biscuit malt
> ...



Sounds interesting. WY1007 has a fair temperature range - what temperature are you fermenting at?


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## manticle (19/2/10)

Ideally aiming for the lower end of ale temps - 17-19. Realistically with this weather and my high tech 'fermenter in a bath with ice bottles' temp control system it may be 20 or 21.

My version is full mash although that makes bugger all difference to the temperature


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## TrenthamTripper (19/2/10)

manticle said:


> Ideally aiming for the lower end of ale temps - 17-19. Realistically with this weather and my high tech 'fermenter in a bath with ice bottles' temp control system it may be 20 or 21.
> 
> My version is full mash although that makes bugger all difference to the temperature



I've recently acquired a small freezer, so I should have better control now - up to this point I have been with you - ice baths, wet towels, lagers sitting in the shed in the middle of winter...

I note that WY1007 can, according to the Wyeast website, go down as low as 13c - have you had any experience with it at these kind of temperatures? I've not used this one, but I imagine you would lose the fruitiness usually associated with an ale.

Anyway, I will pick up the ingredients in the morning and have a go at it.


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## manticle (19/2/10)

My usage of 1007 is recent. If that's the case I might try a similar style brew in winter and try and drop the temps for a super slow ferment.


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## TrenthamTripper (20/2/10)

TrenthamTripper said:


> I've recently acquired a small freezer, so I should have better control now - up to this point I have been with you - ice baths, wet towels, lagers sitting in the shed in the middle of winter...



I'm afraid I got ahead of myself - went to collect said freezer - *way* too small....

The bottles of water are in my freezer as I write this - back to the stone age, eh?


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## Siborg (1/3/10)

manticle said:


> I call it Golden Tett.
> 
> I'm not really sure if it fits a style guideline exactly although it isn't overly complicated or different. Just german style malts, german hops and german yeast so you'd figure it could fit in with something.
> 
> ...


So, for a rough time line:

leave till fermented 5-7 days (3 identical readings)
leave at same temp (?) for 3-5 days on the cake
cold crash for 3-5 days

Where does the gelatine fit in? Before cold crash?


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## mxd (1/3/10)

Others will jump in here, you add gelatine whilst it's cold, but as you naturally carbonating you might get differing thoughts about the need for cold crash and gelatine, and whether you need gelatine if you cold crash, but you will need some yeasties in the bottle to carbonate which will give you a sediment.

So for me.
leave till fermented 5-7 days (3 identical readings)
clean / sterilise bottles etc..
either bulk prime or prime each bottle,
Fill bottles
leave for 2 weeks, 
move 1 bottle to fridge
leave bottle in fridge for 1 day, open it try it, decide to leave another week or fridge them all and drinkem now.


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## manticle (1/3/10)

Siborg said:


> So, for a rough time line:
> 
> leave till fermented 5-7 days (3 identical readings)
> leave at same temp (?) for 3-5 days on the cake
> ...



I usually cold crash for 24 or more hours then add gelatin. Not saying that's the best way - just my way and it's worked so far. Plenty of yeast left to carbonate.


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## stuart13 (2/3/10)

manticle said:


> 1 kg pilsner malt
> 500g vienna malt
> 500g munich malt
> 200g biscuit malt
> ...



Manticle, sounds interesting. I have searched the recipe db but can't see the ag version there... Can you post it - I think i'll have a bash at it.


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## piraterum (2/3/10)

Siborg said:


> hmmm. So the way I see it, I still need a small to medium esky (enough to hold at least 5 liters) and have a tap. I already have some clear hose to drain into the pot. Speaking of pots I'll need a larger pot. The ones I have at the moment would be lucky to fit 10L at the brim, and I'd need to allow for overboil. Some hops bags would be good as well.
> 
> Should be able to do this with minimal outlay. Just need to source the ingredients, I'll try the place in greensy as Heidelberg doesn't seem to have half of those grains.
> 
> Thanks again, manticle



I've been doing 2kg grain partials for a few years now with some basic equipment. 

7.5L round esky with built in tap - Available at Big W, Kmart, camping stores for around $40
15-20L stockpots - Available at Kmart and Big W for about $20-25
Grain bag - available in most homebrew shops

I drain straight from the esky tap into a 5L jug which i find is easier than stuffing around with a hose


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## manticle (2/3/10)

stuart13 said:


> Manticle, sounds interesting. I have searched the recipe db but can't see the ag version there... Can you post it - I think i'll have a bash at it.



I'll post it tonight when I get home from work. Pretty sure I just replaced most of the pilsner malt with DME for the partial recipe but I'll double check.


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## Siborg (2/3/10)

manticle said:


> I'll post it tonight when I get home from work. Pretty sure I just replaced most of the pilsner malt with DME for the partial recipe but I'll double check.



Cool. Will be good to see how you converted your AG recipe into partial so I can do the same with other AG recipes.


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## Nick JD (2/3/10)

Don't forget the whirlfloc in your boil!


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## manticle (2/3/10)

stuart13 said:


> Manticle, sounds interesting. I have searched the recipe db but can't see the ag version there... Can you post it - I think i'll have a bash at it.



OK. Here it is. The reason I haven't plugged it into the db is that the first time I brewed this used a different yeast and my current one with 1007 is cold conditioning (ie - not ready). 

I don't believe in putting my recipes in the database until I've done the recipe as written, tasted it and received positive feedback from another brewer or two plus some non-brewers. 

Golden Tett 

Type: All grain 
Size: 22 liters
Color: 8 HCU (~6 SRM) 
Bitterness: 32 IBU
OG: 1.051
FG: 1.010
Alcohol: 5.3% v/v (4.1% w/w)
Grain: 3kg British Pilsner
1kg German Vienna
1kg German Munich
250g Belgian biscuit
Mash: 70% efficiency
Boil: 60 minutes 
SG 1.037, 30 liters
Hops: 30g Tettnanger (4.5% AA, 60 min.)
40g Tettnanger (4.5% AA, 20 min.)
20g Tettnanger (aroma)
German ale WY 1007

Mash @ 65
No chilled (potential difference to flavouring/aroma hops compared to chill)

@siborg - I think what I did to make your partial recipe was knock the total grain bill down to what you could comfortably mash. What I probably _should_ have done to do it properly was to work out the percentages of each in the total and knock that down, (keeping the proportions), then make up the gravity with DME.

Certainly if you are going to interpret recipes that's how you should do it. I'm a bit rough sometimes - it's the same with cooking. You can do an exact recipe or an exact ratio version or you can take the general flavours and make them work. Since I'm still likely to tweak this recipe I haven't tried to be too tight about how to put it togather.

So for example: Total grain bill for 22 litres = 5.25 kg of grain. Following calculations have some, very slight approximations (which is better than weighing out 1.45498 kg of grain)

3kg of 5.25 = 57%
1 of 5.25 = 19%
.25 of 5.25 = 4%

So the grain bill is

pilsner 57 %
Munich 19%
Vienna 19%
Biscuit 5% 

If you can mash 2.5 kg then the recipe is:

1.425 kg pilsner
0.475 kg munich
0.475 kg Vienna
125g biscuit

And make up specific gravity with the required quantity of DME.

Hopefully that makes sense. I could have been more anal with my initial recipe formation but I'm not sure it would have made you better beer. The quantities are roughly similar and the extra biscuit will only do good (love biscuit). That's how to do it though for next time.


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## thesunsettree (2/3/10)

manticle said:


> 1 kg pilsner malt
> 500g vienna malt
> 500g munich malt
> 200g biscuit malt
> ...




thanks manticle,

i dropped the ingredients list into lhbs this arvo for my first partial (moving to ag -hopefully- in the near future) will pick up in a day or 2 as i don't need for about a week cos both fermenters or on the go at mo'. i have a 19l pot and am gonna try this as biab (hopefully shitebox oven in shite rental house will cope :icon_cheers: , see how it goes. am gonna use s-04 yeast as it is the one i always use, do u see any forseeable issues, should be safe enough i think.

thanks again
matt


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## manticle (2/3/10)

I'd go for 05 if you want to stay with dried. It's a bit more neutral and I've actually successfully made this one with 05.


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## thesunsettree (2/3/10)

manticle said:


> I'd go for 05 if you want to stay with dried. It's a bit more neutral and I've actually successfully made this one with 05.




okie doke, done

cheers
matt


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## stuart13 (2/3/10)

manticle said:


> OK. Here it is.



Cool. I will give this a go this weekend.


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## Siborg (3/3/10)

stuart13 said:


> Cool. I will give this a go this weekend.



Looks like everyones trying your Gloden Tett, manticle. Maybe you should have kept the recipe a secret!


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## stm (3/3/10)

Siborg, for a good article (although US-centric) about converting AG recipes to partials, try this link:

http://members.cox.net/steve.krieske/Extra...ing%20Guide.pdf


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## Siborg (3/3/10)

stm said:


> Siborg, for a good article (although US-centric) about converting AG recipes to partials, try this link:
> 
> http://members.cox.net/steve.krieske/Extra...ing%20Guide.pdf



Good link. From what I've read so far it seems really useful. Especially familiarising myself with the different types of grains.


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## manticle (3/3/10)

Siborg said:


> Looks like everyones trying your Gloden Tett, manticle. Maybe you should have kept the recipe a secret!



Der bier ist fur der enjoymenting

Das secrets ist fur schnitzels


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## Siborg (3/3/10)

manticle said:


> Der bier ist fur der enjoymenting
> 
> Das secrets ist fur schnitzels



LOL


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