# Cold Crashing



## citizensnips

G'day all,
Im a K&K brewer and am putting down a coopers sparkling ale tomorrow. One thing i have never done with brewing is bothered using a secondary. As I have brewed quite a few batches now and have been reading up some more, i have come across cold crashing quite a bit. I was wanting to know if someone could exlpain exactly what 'cold crashing' is and if it is or can be done in primary and what are the benefits. Any advice is apreciated.
Cheers


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## Kai

It just means chilling the beer down post-fermentation. Drops the yeast out and is also very handy if you don't get around to bottling for a few weeks.


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## Millet Man

Yes it can be done in primary (no need for secondary), and as Kai said just chill it down to around 0-2C to let the yeast drop out and the beer to clear. It will smooth out the flavours as well if you let it cold condition for a week or two. There will still be enough yeast in suspension to carb it up when you bottle it.

Cheers, Andrew.


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## citizensnips

ok so if i leave it in primary for a week or a bit longer to be safe and then put it in the fridge at around 0-2 degrees for around a week that would be a good idea?


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## matti

Pretty much!


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## Bizier

eddy22 said:


> if it is or can be done in primary



I crash chill and fine in my primary, and condition at 2-4 degrees C until I bottle. When that comes around I siphon from the top to bulk prime to keep the yeast from being disturbed. This method took me a little while to end up on, but I am loving it, clear beers, cleaner tasting beers, less sediment in bottles.


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## clean brewer

eddy22 said:


> ok so if i leave it in primary for a week or a bit longer to be safe and then put it in the fridge at around 0-2 degrees for around a week that would be a good idea?



Depends on your temp control, do you brew at 18 degrees? Mine are at 18deg for 2 weeks(give a couple days), then I crash chill in Primary and keg..

Need to take your hydro readings to ensure its finished fermenting, if you only ferment for a week(at correct temps), then crash chill and bottle without it fully fermenting, you could end up with bottle bombs.. :unsure:


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## Millet Man

eddy22 said:


> ok so if i leave it in primary for a week or a bit longer to be safe and then put it in the fridge at around 0-2 degrees for around a week that would be a good idea?


Yep, just make sure fermentation has finished before chilling, consistent FG over 2-3 days.

Cheers, Andrew.


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## citizensnips

Yep will do. Yeah i have a fridgemate and generally do all ales around 18-21 degrees. So once you get a consistent FG reading all that needs to be done is stick in in my fridge at a controlled temp of 0-2 degrees for aprox 1 week. Does it matter how little or how long it is left in the cold conditions?


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## Bizier

More yeast and tiny trub particles will drop out if you leave it longer.

Judging by your signature, you like your lagers. This is the technique "lagering" that will clean your beer up properly.


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## citizensnips

Excellent, yeah i am a fan of lagers however when i brewed them i never did cold crash them, just let them fully ferment out at 11-12 degrees. 
Cheers for the help.


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## SpargeArse

I wouldn't cold crash a coopers sparkling ale as that way you would lose to much yeast which is important in the flavour profile of this style of beer, its supposed to be a cloudy ale but to each his own i suppose. i always cold crash my lagers though and they come out crystal clear and mature quicker.




eddy22 said:


> G'day all,
> Im a K&K brewer and am putting down a coopers sparkling ale tomorrow. One thing i have never done with brewing is bothered using a secondary. As I have brewed quite a few batches now and have been reading up some more, i have come across cold crashing quite a bit. I was wanting to know if someone could exlpain exactly what 'cold crashing' is and if it is or can be done in primary and what are the benefits. Any advice is apreciated.
> Cheers


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## robbo5253

In regards to time of crash chilling

I have a double brew of Pale Ale with US-05 I am doing for a Bathurst party in a 60l fermenter.
I put it down on tuesday and expecting to keg it off next weekend.
My question is, what is the shortest time I can crash chill for, as I will be using my Keg fridge and will have to pull the beers out that I am drinking.

If I got home next friday and pulled the current kegs out and put the fermenter in, could I keg it on saturday or should I wait until sunday?

Cheers

Robbo


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## robbo5253

Bump

Anyone know how long i need to cold crash for to get the yeast out of suspension?

Cheers

Robbo


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## hoohaaman

Simple answer,the longer the better.

Why not add finings as well to speed the process


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## mckenry

robbo5253 said:


> Bump
> 
> Anyone know how long i need to cold crash for to get the yeast out of suspension?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Robbo



The majority falls out pretty quickly @ 2*C. 24hrs @ 2*C will be enough if you really want to push it.

Edit-yep, use a fining agent of some kind too. e.g. cryofine or standard finings.


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## manticle

I do most of my brews for 5-7 days but even one or two days (particularly with finings) will help.


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## dr K

48 hours at -1C, finings added at 12 hours, longer won't hurt shorter won' do.

K


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## Bribie G

I've just started using Cryofine and it's quite frightening how quickly it drops the yeast. It's a bugger to prepare though, I've bought an electric beater just for it. Also it smells like fish sauce so make sure it drops right out before kegging.


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## ash2

I have my fermenter sitting @ 1.5c,how long could you leave it before you bottle


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## Yob

~4-7 days.. Ive crashed at 0 for 2 days when I was in a hurry once, but if you have the time, 4 days


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## ash2

I have one that's been sitting since 2/12/13 Yob I just havn't had time to bottle it yet tastes & smells ok


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## mrsupraboy

Can someone correct me if I'm wrong bit when u say cold crash Ur meaning chill to 2'c or colder before putting the yeast in for a day or 2 then Ur warming it up to 12 - 18'c and putting the yeast in to forment. 

Is that correct. Sorry I'm new to all of this. 

And when Ur saying crash cold before bottling are you meaning once fermentation is done turn down the temps again before bottling. 

Is that correct and if so does it apply to kegging

Also what styles of beer would and wouldn't you do this to.


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## davedoran

Hey Supraboy,

No the idea is to ferment as you would normally (18deg for an ale 12deg for lager etc) with your wort and yeast in the fermentor.
After this has finished fermenting it is chilled down to 2 deg.
With referral to largering it is done to give lager style beers that crisp taste and clarity which is not always found with ales.
If you are kegging you would still do this process.

Subject to correction here but the ones I wouldn't crash chill would be stouts, dark beers, cloudy beers, wheat beers.

Hope it helps somewhat.


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## mrsupraboy

Would chilling it straight down in a keg be the same as crash chilling or not really


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## DJ_L3ThAL

Not really, because crash chilling in your fermenter is to leave the dropped out yeast behind when you transfer to the keg. Sure in the keg you will get it to drop out, but to the bottm of the keg where the beer poured out comes from at first so you'd end up wasting beer on a few cloudy couple of pints or more.


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## BeerNess

mrsupraboy said:


> Would chilling it straight down in a keg be the same as crash chilling or not really


 not really, The idea of crashing is to drop as much shit as possible out of your beer before it is kegged or bottled, to avoid those muddy pours.
Edit DJ got in first lol...im a damn slow typer


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## zappa

And if you can get your head around using plastic in your beer, adding some polyclar and cold crashing for around 4 days will really clear your beer up, with less tendency for off flavours to develop in your beer after kegging/bottling. Have only used it a few times myself, but have been extremely happy with the results.


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## mrsupraboy

ok thanks peeps


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## Jason_brews_beer

Should i crash chill a Mangrove Jack Pale Ale K&K??? After reading this post I think its a good idea but not sure i can chill to 2 deg... Don't have a ferment fridge yet...


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## New_guy

Great Topic

As I aint that sharp, in summary the cold crashing process is (with fridge):

Ferment as per normal routine
Ensure fermentation complete - FG steady for 3 days
Chill FV to 2 deg C (in fridge)
Leave FV in fridge for further 4 - 7 days
rack to secondary if preferred
Bottle as per normal routine


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## Stimsoni

If you cold crash in secondary is it ok to bring back up to ambient temp after bottling or kegging.


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## Yob

If bottling, the beer will warm up anyway, if kegging, it's better to be cold when you force carb it.


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## philmud

Jason_brews_beer said:


> Should i crash chill a Mangrove Jack Pale Ale K&K??? After reading this post I think its a good idea but not sure i can chill to 2 deg... Don't have a ferment fridge yet...


The beer you mention would benefit from cold crashing, but without a brew fridge you won't be able to. If you want clearer beer you've still got a couple of options. First, let your beer sit in the fermenter for a couple of weeks. This will allow more yeast to drop out. Second, add finings a couple of days before you bottle/keg.


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## joshF

On the whole CC topic, there's a bit of a grey area about 'when' to crash chill. Of course you need to wait until fermentation has finished but there is very little mention of how long after fermentation is finished.

Say I leave all my beers for 10 days before even doing a hydro sample, if say i used an irish ale yeast or a wheat yeast, these are typically finished after 4 or 5 days.

So if the purpose of cold crashing is to drop everything out of suspension and clear the beer up, could this not be done immediately after fermentation is finished at say day 4 or 5? If the theory of the yeast cleaning up fermentation biproducts at fermentation temperatures has the same impact as cold crashing, then why do we wait that extra few days or few weeks before cold crashing? Or why not chill for 24 hours and then filter?

Just interesting in everyonese opinions or if there is some science behind it


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## big78sam

[SIZE=10pt]I’ve had occasional instances in the past where immediately after fermentation has finished I have off flavours. Rather than ditching I was advised to let the yeast “clean up” after itself and by leaving a few days this has happened. I usually wait 3 or 4 days after fermentation is complete (and do a diacetyl rest if needed during this time) before crash chilling. Is this required or “best practice”? I don’t know. I just do it as part of my fermentation regime as anecdotal evidence has shown it can be beneficial at times.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10pt]On another related issue, I understand the two main factors for getting yeast and other stuff to drop out is both time and temperature. I have traditional done a crash chill at 1 or 2 degrees for a few days and got OK clarity. Doing a run of lagers for the first time recently I crashed down to -1 and left for a couple of weeks. The beer was crystal clear into the keg. So for me I will now crash chill at -1 and leave for at least a week (i.e. lower temperature and more time).[/SIZE]


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## stm

joshF said:


> So if the purpose of cold crashing is to drop everything out of suspension and clear the beer up, could this not be done immediately after fermentation is finished at say day 4 or 5? If the theory of the yeast cleaning up fermentation biproducts at fermentation temperatures has the same impact as cold crashing, then why do we wait that extra few days or few weeks before cold crashing? Or why not chill for 24 hours and then filter?


I think the "yeast cleaning up after itself" and "cold conditioning" are different things. You allow the first to happen and then you do the second. The yeast won't be able to actively "clean up after itself" if you put it to sleep at 2 degrees.


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## joshF

Agreed they are different things but the whole 'cleaning up after itself' is an extremely grey area. What exactly are the yeast doing? They've eaten sugar, shit out alcohol and burped out co2.

It sounds very much like the additional week after fermentation has finished is simply a matter of gravity doing its thing by dropping yeast, trub, hop particles etc etc to the bottom of the fermenter. Sure this extra week or so makes the chilling phase alot faster and probably yields greater results in terms of clarity, but chilling immediately after fermentation for 2 weeks vs 1 week would seem to yield the same results.

As we know, dropping the temperature dramatically increases the speed of this 'dropping / clearing' effect and clears the beer up significantly faster. So what exactly are we waiting the extra week for after fermentation before chilling it?

Has anyone done a comparison of this? I've got AndrewQld's coopers recipe at the moment with s04 which hit 1.006 thismorning and am tempted to transfer half into a secondary, chill that for 24 hours then filter it at 0.35 into a keg, then leave the other 12 or so litres in the primary fermenter and chill it for a week or so, keg and then compare the results.

Surely there's a scientific explanation for it?


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## big78sam

joshF said:


> Agreed they are different things but the whole 'cleaning up after itself' is an extremely grey area. What exactly are the yeast doing? They've eaten sugar, shit out alcohol and burped out co2.
> 
> It sounds very much like the additional week after fermentation has finished is simply a matter of gravity doing its thing by dropping yeast, trub, hop particles etc etc to the bottom of the fermenter. Sure this extra week or so makes the chilling phase alot faster and probably yields greater results in terms of clarity, but chilling immediately after fermentation for 2 weeks vs 1 week would seem to yield the same results.
> 
> As we know, dropping the temperature dramatically increases the speed of this 'dropping / clearing' effect and clears the beer up significantly faster. So what exactly are we waiting the extra week for after fermentation before chilling it?
> 
> Has anyone done a comparison of this? I've got AndrewQld's coopers recipe at the moment with s04 which hit 1.006 thismorning and am tempted to transfer half into a secondary, chill that for 24 hours then filter it at 0.35 into a keg, then leave the other 12 or so litres in the primary fermenter and chill it for a week or so, keg and then compare the results.
> 
> Surely there's a scientific explanation for it?


I have read about yeast geting rid of, or reducing, diacetyl and acetaldehyde after fermentation has complete and that dropping the temperature stops or severly slows this "clean up". I agree it's a bit of a grey area to me. Maybe an "expert" like Thirsty Boy could comment here (is he still around?). My practie is leave at or slightly above fermentation temps for a couple of days, then crash chill. That way I've got both bases covered.

This reminds me, I should go back and revisit the yeast book.


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## stm

John Palmer can overstate some issues at the homebrew scale and be a bit dogmatic (eg, splashing hot wort and slow-chilling), but this is what he says in How To Brew on topic:

The conditioning process is a function of the yeast. The vigorous, primary stage is over, the majority of the wort sugars have been converted to alcohol, and a lot of the yeast are going dormant; but there is still yeast activity. During the earlier phases, many different compounds were produced by the yeast in addition to ethanol and CO2, e.g., acetaldehyde, esters, amino acids, ketones- diacetyl, pentanedione, dimethyl sulfide, etc. Once the easy food is gone, the yeast start re-processing these by-products. Diacetyl and pentanedione are two ketones that have buttery and honey-like flavors. These compounds are considered flaws when present in large amounts and can cause flavor stability problems during storage. Acetaldehyde is an aldehyde that has a pronounced green apple smell and taste. It is an intermediate compound in the production of ethanol. The yeast reduce these compounds during the later stages of fermentation.

The yeast also produce an array of fusel alcohols during primary fermentation in addition to ethanol. Fusels are higher molecular weight alcohols that often give harsh solvent-like tastes to beer. During secondary fermentation, the yeast convert these alcohols to more pleasant tasting fruity esters. Warmer temperatures encourage ester production.

Towards the end of secondary fermentation, the suspended yeast flocculates (settles out) and the beer clears. High molecular weight proteins also settle out during this stage. Tannin/phenol compounds will bind with the proteins and also settle out, greatly smoothing the taste of the beer. This process can be helped by chilling the beer, very similar to the lagering process. In the case of ales, this process is referred to as Cold Conditioning, and is a popular practice at most brewpubs and microbreweries. Cold conditioning for a week clears the beer with or without the use of finings. Fining agents, such as isinglass (fish bladders), Polyclar (plastic dust), and gelatin, are added to the fermentor to help speed the flocculation process and promote the settling of haze forming proteins and tannins. While much of the emphasis on using finings is to combat aesthetic chill haze, the real benefit of dropping those compounds is to improve the taste and stability of the beer.


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## professional_drunk

Makes you wonder if yeast clean up is just brewing myth. The same way that searing meat seals in juices is a myth in cooking. The flavour improvement of secondary is probably just a function of stuff dropping out of suspension.


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## GalBrew

Yeast cleaning up their metabolic intermediates such as diacetyl at the end stages of primary is well documented and hardly a myth. Cut your ferment short by cc'ing early and find out.


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## dammag

I'm just drinking a Pale Ale I recently brewed and cold crashed.

7 days primary, dry hopped on day 4.

7 days Cold Crashed at 4 degrees.

7 Days in the bottle.

Poured the whole stubby into a glass and it is clear as f*&k.

Tastes great also. I have 2 x brewing fridges so I think CC'ing will become part of my routine now.


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## citizensnips

Agreed dammag. After just realising I originally started this thread years ago let me just say cold crashing is the bees knees . It is so easy and cheap and literally clears my beers to a megaswill standard of clarity. Have seen no need to try any other method.
Cheers


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## manticle

professional_drunk said:


> Makes you wonder if yeast clean up is just brewing myth. The same way that searing meat seals in juices is a myth in cooking. The flavour improvement of secondary is probably just a function of stuff dropping out of suspension.


Yeast re-absorbing byproducts/reversing chemical pathways is a well documented scientific fact.

The meat sealing thing is a misnomer rather than a myth. Meat doesn't seal hermetically but searing meat creates a certain flavour profile (melanoidens, similar to brewing and baking).


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## Online Brewing Supplies

Reversing is probably not the right term, more like the end stage of the controlled process.
You are not reversing the process just accommodating the yeast to absorb its natural process products.
Nev


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## Doug2232

Is it possible to split into 2x containers to cold crash or will that do something funky??

Have a small 2x 10litre keg set up and limited room so was hoping to secondry into two 10 litre cubes from bunnings rather then one large 25 litre..

Does it need to be in the one cube??


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## Midnight Brew

Doug2232 said:


> Is it possible to split into 2x containers to cold crash or will that do something funky??
> 
> Have a small 2x 10litre keg set up and limited room so was hoping to secondry into two 10 litre cubes from bunnings rather then one large 25 litre..
> 
> Does it need to be in the one cube??


If your sanitary practises are good I dont see why not. Just remember though more things to sanitise and more losses to the cube tap height and what not. You also add the risk of oxidising the beer after fermentation.

Speaking of cold conditioning, my method used to be about 2 days CC then into the keg and carb and my brews had that bit of chill haze. Last two brews I CC for four days and they are all crystal clear. Something to do with that and my brews all get a rest at 72C for 10 minutes. Chill haze be gone.


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## manticle

Doug2232 said:


> Is it possible to split into 2x containers to cold crash or will that do something funky??
> 
> Have a small 2x 10litre keg set up and limited room so was hoping to secondry into two 10 litre cubes from bunnings rather then one large 25 litre..
> 
> Does it need to be in the one cube??


Provided you take the same precautions as you would with one cube, then no drama.
You can also cold condition in primary before splitting to your two kegs.


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## Doug2232

yeah issue is i only have the bar fridge running 2x 10ltr kegs and hopefully the two 10ltre cubes. tight fit but can just squeeze it all in until i get the chance and room to upgrade to a freezer

yeah of course santizing both as i would one no problems there. thanks for the info guys.


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## BrewDaddy

What about dry hopping??

Should one dry hop at fermentation temp and then CC, should the hops be removed if there is an extended CC, or

Should one dry hop cold and is there a real difference in flavour compared to a fermentation temp dry hop???


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## Donske

BrewDaddy said:


> What about dry hopping??
> 
> Should one dry hop at fermentation temp and then CC, should the hops be removed if there is an extended CC, or
> 
> Should one dry hop cold and is there a real difference in flavour compared to a fermentation temp dry hop???



I dry hop when I start crash chilling, seems the most practical way to go about it for me, dry hop/crash chill times line up perfectly.


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## Droopy

I cold crashed for a little while, but I found it played havoc with conditioning times and tastes. I've sinced stopped cold conditioning and just let the brew sit in the fermenter for 4-6 weeks (including fermenting time). I find that gives me nice clear beer and nicer tastibg beer.


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## Muzduk

Ok thought i was on track till that last post..Hmmm iv'e been cold crashing for three days, no dry hops. I bottle so wondering if i did it today i'd sort of be halfway in regards to clarity ( don't care if a little cloudy) and taste (0.713 IBU/SG ratio) ?? Well it is still raining perhaps i'm just looking for inside jobs


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## Muzduk

Ok so i let it go for 8 days (not by design just time) however my cold crash fridge is 40 metres from my brew shed and with a bit of a crook hammer and tack from the other day i transported back to the shed on a trolley. Of course hit a couple stones etc and stirred it up a bit..Will it be fine to sit for 8 or so hours at ambient or willi need to drop back into cold crash for a day or so to get my clarity back ??


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## Spiesy

Why does it need to sit at ambient for 8 hours?

Let it sit for a little bit (15 mins or so) to let some of the stirred up trub settle (the beer is still cold, they should drop back down) and then get your swerve on and decant.


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## Muzduk

Thanks Spiesy, No real reason for the 8 hour thing. Just thought i'd get out and go do some work then wash some bottles etc by then it would have settled down a bit more.Also guess there are a few who prefer to bottle once it had come back to room temp. Guess i had a foot in their camp. From sample it's already doing as you say and its not exactly stinklng hot today. P.S thanks for the bit of Galaxy it is smelling grouse now i have a glass full warming inside.


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## mrsupraboy

Or use a beer filter


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## Muzduk

Yup did think of that but no LHBS unfortunately and only getting bits as i see fit. Cheers


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## TheWiggman

There's some OT discussion about this in another thread, thought I'd put it here.
I'm currently brewing a lager because I'm fortunate enough now to have temp control. I have found the whole control process to be littered with different recommendations, timings, rates etc. My process has been -

13°C for ~10 days. 75% to FG.
Stepped up 1°C per day to 17°C. Held until FG reached
At 3 weeks, dropped to 4°C
Intend to leave for 10 days then crash to -1°C for 3 days, then keg and carbonate
The third step is the one I'm curious about. Bribie G provided a very informative link that said lager yeast is still active at 4°C and slowly works away. Crashing to -1°C drops whatever's left to drop in the vessel.
I've now seen comments saying that the temp should be STEPPED down to 4°C from 17-odd or else it 'shocks' the yeast. Anyone got any material supporting this?


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## verysupple

There are generally two schools of thought on step 3. Bribie is right in that lager yeast will work at 4 C. But only if there's any work to be done. If the beer is at FG and the yeast has already cleaned up the diacetyl, acetaldehyde etc. then there's nothing left for them to do, so you can crash it quickly. If you take a more traditional approach where you start lowering the temp before reaching FG, then you have to lower the temp slowly so the yeast stay active and can finish the job. 

With your method the yeast have done everything they need to so you can just crash it. For more detail check this out.

EDIT: BTW, because with your method the yeast has already done all the work before you lower it to 4 C, there's actually no point doing the stop at 4C and you might as well go straight to -1 C.


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## Black n Tan

very supple is spot on. Yes lager yeast will clean up at 4C but only if the temp is lowered slowly so as not to shock the yeast into dormancy. I perform an extended diacetyl rest so all my clean up is already done (much like you have done), so I crash quickly to -1C to precipitate protein and tannins, and skip the 4C lagering. The braukaiser link verysupple provided has a wealth of information about the different options: I get good results with something similar to option f.


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## ralphstralph

_can you cold crash all styles of beers eg ipa or will it take out all its nice colours also does it do anything to the flavours of the hops that got added during the boil ? _


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## verysupple

Yes, you can cold crash any style. It will not affect colour (although the improved clarity may give that impression). If you cold crash for only a few days it won't change the flavour (other than dropping out the particulate, which is good). If you cold crash for a long time, like if you lager for a number of weeks or up to months, then it may have some effect on the flavour by precipitating polyphenols and the like and will make the beer more mellow/smooth. But mostly people cold crash ales for a few days to a week just to drop the yeast and other crud and it doesn't really affect hoppiness, if that's what you're worried about.


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## Dazzbrew

When cold crashing do you need to remove the blow off tube from the cup of sanitiser or do anything with the airlock?


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## indica86

Dazzbrew said:


> When cold crashing do you need to remove the blow off tube from the cup of sanitiser or do anything with the airlock?


What is an airlock?


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## Lowlyf

Dazzbrew said:


> When cold crashing do you need to remove the blow off tube from the cup of sanitiser or do anything with the airlock?


I searched this thread purely for this question. Does anyone have an answer? I'm cold crashing as we speak and I still have the airlock in...


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## troopa

If the solution from the airlock is getting sucked into the fermenter then yes.. if its not then no.


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## Lowlyf

Troopa said:


> If the solution from the airlock is getting sucked into the fermenter then yes.. if its not then no.


I'm not sitting in front of the fridge watching it haha. I guess I'll need to check it from time to time


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## Grott

If you want to play safe, loosen the lid a bit.
Cheers


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## Rocker1986

I went to pick up some bottles from a bloke a couple of years ago. When I was there he was preparing a couple of FV's for cold crashing. He removed the airlocks, and simply put some duct tape over the holes in the lids. This could be an option too, and you don't have to worry about suck back at all.

I actually use my FV like this all the way through fermentation, since the grommet broke and I couldn't be arsed buying a new one. :lol:


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## troopa

OT I personally hadn't used an airlock for nearly 5 years.. I decided to do a mead in a 5L demi the other week and chucked an airlock for the hell of it.
I spent the next 5 days staring at the bloody thing bubbling away. It was great. Bloop Bloop Bloop
Racked to secondary and chucked some glad wrap over the top of it.... Now i have 10mins a day of my life back 


Troopa


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