# 4 Pines Kolsch



## milob40 (21/12/11)

i bought a six pack from dans last night but when i opened it, found it to be way overcarbed, has a very acidic smell
and it won't pour at all, just foams up and spews over the side. the bubbles in it are sustaining a head about 3 inches high.
also has small flakes in it but dunno if it is bottle conditioned
what is this beer supposed to taste like? 
i think dan murphy's handling and storage is questionable.


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## kevo (21/12/11)

That's not how a 4 Pines should be.

Could be very wrong, but that doesn't sound to me like an issue with Dan's handling?

I'd take it back or contact 4 Pines, and then get some more, great beers.

Kev


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## chunckious (21/12/11)

This Klosh is the only that I've had.
To style, is it supposed to be this sweet? reminded me of Bees-nez...not a fan.


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## Batz (21/12/11)

milob40 said:


> i bought a six pack from dans last night but when i opened it, found it to be way overcarbed, has a very acidic smell
> and it won't pour at all, just foams up and spews over the side. the bubbles in it are sustaining a head about 3 inches high.
> also has small flakes in it but dunno if it is bottle conditioned
> what is this beer supposed to taste like?
> i think dan murphy's handling and storage is questionable.




The ones I have from BeerMasons where way overcarbed as well, apart from that they were quite nice.


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## warra48 (21/12/11)

Sounds like infected bottles to me. If so, that's an issue for the brewer.

Dountful it has anything to do with DanMurphy's handling.


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## pimpsqueak (21/12/11)

I had an identical problem with a 4-pack of Murrays Nirvana. I thought it was an infection problem too, but turns out it was a handling issue. Let 4 pines know and see what happens.


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## Weizguy (21/12/11)

milob40 said:


> i think dan murphy's handling and storage is questionable.



REALLY? Ya think?

I bought some Budvar there, and it was gutted and tasteless. Bought a newer (Best b4 date) 6-pack of Budvar in case the first one was not indicative.
Same result.

Same with a lot of beer I have bought from Dan's, including a Murray's beer. I'll make the trip to Bob's Farm next time and buy from the Brewery. It has a lot more flavour than the beer i paid for at Dan's , and should have too!

Having said that, a gusher is normally a brewery problem, and should be returned for store credit.


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## Nick JD (21/12/11)

I thoight 4 Pines Kolsch was pretty average. Actually got hints of twang in there - not smooth at all. 

Drank a Torpedo, Budvar, S&W Pacific, Urquell and then the Kolsch. Won't buy it again.


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## iralosavic (21/12/11)

I'm with Nick. 4Pines Kolsch is way too musky for my liking.


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## Nick JD (21/12/11)

iralosavic said:


> I'm with Nick. 4Pines Kolsch is way too musky for my liking.



To be honest, I'm kinda over trying to give the benefit of doubt to Aussie micros. S&W Pacific was "mild" and that's being nice. Where is this Galaxy supposed to be?

For the same price as something brewed on the other side of the world, Aussie Micros? Pull ya finger out! Put some flavour in if you're gonna charge that much!


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## kalbarluke (21/12/11)

Nick JD said:


> I thoight 4 Pines Kolsch was pretty average. Actually got hints of twang in there - not smooth at all.
> 
> Drank a Torpedo, Budvar, S&W Pacific, Urquell and then the Kolsch. Won't buy it again.



You drank the Torpedo first, all in one night? I'm surprised you could taste anything at all after that. If that's true, no wonder the other other beers tasted bland. That SN Torpedo is a bitter beer.

I was eyeing off the 4 Pines Kolsch but bought the S&W Pacific instead. I found it to be yummy, full of passionfruit goodness. After reading this post I am unsure whether I will buy the Kolsch. Maybe just a bottle for xmas.


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## Florian (21/12/11)

Regardless if it's a brewers issue or wrong handling, if you think it's infected or not the way it's supposed to be, take it back to the retailer.

From my experience Dan's will give you a full refund without asking questions, that obviously also covers the bottles you have already tried (unless you drank 16 out of 20 I guess).


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## milob40 (21/12/11)

this brew is so overcarbed, i'm now too f$%&@ scared to pick up the remaining beer bottles,
might put in an esky incase they explode :unsure: 
definately no sweet taste or even hop taste, more like when you make an all grain apa and let the dog lick the fermenter clean.
damn i really wanted to try this brew but there is only 3 other six packs on the shelve so a good chance it too will be dodgy. might try somethin else.


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## bkmad (21/12/11)

To be fair to 4 pines, their kolsch is lovely on tap at their bar. Never tried it in the bottle though as I've heard several other reports such as yours.


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## milob40 (21/12/11)

bkmad said:


> To be fair to 4 pines, their kolsch is lovely on tap at their bar. Never tried it in the bottle though as I've heard several other reports such as yours.


 i believe it would be, i'm not bagging them in anyway , just a 35km trip to dans to return it,
was really looking forward to tasting this.


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## iralosavic (21/12/11)

I don't think there was anything wrong with the 4Pines Kolsch when I had it. It had a nice light floral quality to it. It wasn't overly carbonatd or anything. I just found the musk too overpowering and it made it difficult to enjoy. My wife would've loved it.

I would certainly give it a go, even if just to be able to tick it off your list of local beers you've tried.


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## bkmad (21/12/11)

milob40 said:


> i believe it would be, i'm not bagging them in anyway , just a 35km trip to dans to return it,
> was really looking forward to tasting this.



Fair enough. I'd be dissapointed too.


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## Where's Jim? (21/12/11)

Nick JD said:


> For the same price as something brewed on the other side of the world, Aussie Micros? Pull ya finger out! Put some flavour in if you're gonna charge that much!



I think this comes down to the amount of labour needed to produce beer at all + the insane excise placed on microbreweries + the small industry/market. If I recall correctly, about a year ago I checked our system (1st Choice) and we were buying slabs of Little Creatures for $54 and selling them for $60. If a brewery that size has to charge $54 per slab to turn a profit (after production costs, tax and distribution) then it's no wonder people like Stone and Wood and Mountain Goat have their cartons sold for $70+.

I suppose the flavour is one of those things that needs to be compromised on in order to turn a small profit or break even.

Slightly OT. Sorry.


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## chunckious (21/12/11)

Thanks for the insight Jim.


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## Nick JD (21/12/11)

[quote name='Where's Jim?' post='857495' date='Dec 21 2011, 11:32 AM']I suppose the flavour is one of those things that needs to be compromised on in order to turn a small profit or break even.[/quote]

It's more than that. They just aren't as good as the beers they are trying to copy ... but they are the same price.


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## mckenry (21/12/11)

Slightly :icon_offtopic:
Once bought a 6 pack (maybe a 4 pack) of Mountain Goat, in Orange, on the way to the Blue Mts.
All gushers. Cranky. 
Then some of the other guests asked if it way my homebrew. <_< 
Wasnt going back to Orange to return them. Should have let Mt Goat know I guess.
First and last try. I'm a bit like that.


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## milob40 (21/12/11)

mckenry said:


> Slightly :icon_offtopic:
> Once bought a 6 pack (maybe a 4 pack) of Mountain Goat, in Orange, on the way to the Blue Mts.
> All gushers. Cranky.
> Then some of the other guests asked if it way my homebrew. <_<
> ...


yep ,mine was like pouring vinegar into bicarb soda.
ended up swapping for red oak pale ale, smoooooth.


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## big78sam (21/12/11)

Nick JD said:


> To be honest, I'm kinda over trying to give the benefit of doubt to Aussie micros. S&W Pacific was "mild" and that's being nice. Where is this Galaxy supposed to be?
> 
> For the same price as something brewed on the other side of the world, Aussie Micros? Pull ya finger out! Put some flavour in if you're gonna charge that much!



Try a cavalier pale ale. Brilliant!


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## KillerRx4 (22/12/11)

I just got a carton of 4 pines Kolsch. They are drinking great. 

Filtered, not bottle conditioned. Best B4 7/DEC/12

What is the date on the off bottles?

Definitely contact the brewery, give them the date codes off the bottle if there are any. I'm sure they will value your feedback.


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## Tony (22/12/11)

To all who have a dodgy batch..... definately record the batch or best before date on the bottle and where you bought it and contact the brewery. RIng them and without being angry (its not CUB) ask if you can talk to someone about some very bad beer they made.

Dans wont give a shit! They leave all their beer sitting out in the summer sun for god knows how long..... so what do they care. They have your money now and they say HAHAHAHAHAHAHA cause they are bigger than you and you cant prove anything!

i have tried the 4 pines pale ale and it was fricken fantsstic i must say. I have been looking at the Kolsch but i figure i can make an awsome one myself (and have it on tap) why should i pay $4.50 for another glass.

cheers


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## WSC (22/12/11)

Give Dan's the flick and go to and independent bottle shop that gives a shit about the quality of their beer.


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## Kingbrownbrewing (22/12/11)

Seriously guys,


Anyone who thinks Dan's gives a flying **** about looking after their beer properly is extremely mistaken. I very much doubt that it has ANYTHING to do with the brewery, and it has EVERYTHING to do with where you buy your beer.


Let this be a lesson to you all, spend the extra couple of bucks and get a beer from someone that knows how to treat it.


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## argon (22/12/11)

King Brown Brewing said:


> Seriously guys,
> 
> 
> Anyone who thinks Dan's gives a flying **** about looking after their beer properly is extremely mistaken. I very much doubt that it has ANYTHING to do with the brewery, and it has EVERYTHING to do with where you buy your beer.
> ...


Weeeellllll.... I recently bought a bottle of kaimai golden rye ale from an establishment you may be familiar with in west end h34r: and it was a gusher... Black shit in the bottom of the bottle. Just figured it was a bad one and thought no more of it. I know it was handled well, so assumed it was the brewery or somewhere in between.


Awkward.


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## barls (22/12/11)

here dans attitude. 
the beer is made in sydney then shipped down to melbourne to sit in an unrefridgerated warehouse then shipped back to sydney
not good for it at all


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## WSC (22/12/11)

Beer that goes into wholesalers/buying groups travels all over the shop, so you just never know how it's treated.

It's a lotto from what I understand and my experience.

I have personally had many gushers.

For the prices charged for some beers they should be transported/treated much better.


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## Thunderlips (22/12/11)

King Brown Brewing said:


> Anyone who thinks Dan's gives a flying **** about looking after their beer properly is extremely mistaken.


And it really does pay to check the date when buying from either 1st Choice or Dan's.
I recently bought a bottle of Young's London Ale from 1st Choice and it was out of date by about 4 weeks.

I made an online order from Dan's a few months back (Adnams The Bitter) and the carton was out of date by about a month.
Not happy. It was totally different to a fresh bottle.

I also discovered recently from a workmate not to trust the stock levels shown at their website.
He went to two stores looking for Mad Brewers Scribbly Gum and neither of them had stock, even though the website said they did.


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## srcossens (23/12/11)

I bought a slab of the 4 Pines Kolsch back at the start of the year and there were no gushers and no off flavours. I would say that half of the bottles tasted slightly different to the other half which were kinda kolschish. I didn't buy it from Dans, but bought it from a bottle shop somewhat close to the brewery in Manly. There was nothing wrong with it, I quite enjoyed it, but maybe it is just a better beer on tap?

:icon_offtopic: 
I have bought a few Belgian beers from Dan's, but I won't do it again. Actually, the jury is out for me on any Belgian beers imported here. The Grimbergen Dubbel is one of my favourite beers, but it was certainly oxidised from Dan's and also from another bottle shop.


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## Captain4Pines (23/12/11)

Hi Gents,

We picked up a bit of chatter re our Kolsch and wanted to clear a few issues, answer questions and explain the style.

Kolsch as a style originates from Cologne. This German beer is warm fermented and then cold-conditioned which results in a crisp clean finish. It is light straw in colour beginning with aromas of lemon / lime finishing with a slightly malty palate.

After reading the posts and realising this was the introduction for some we find it extremely frustrating that this has eventuated and could be a deterrent for future purchases. We can assure this is a horrible reflection on the Kolsch and something were currently discussing with the big guys. 

Unfortunately being a new beer into the big guys nation systems we have found the odd case to be mistreated by external factors and then find its way on shelf when it should not. Eventually being picked up by you and resulting in a bad representation of our beer.

When not affected our Kolsch has impressed on all levels with gold medals at the Sydney Royal Show, silver medals at the AIBA and Peoples Choice Awards at the Australian Beer Festival. Its a beer that not only impresses judges but also is something that first timers are using as an entry to craft due to its subtlety and unique flavour profile.

All information on our beers, both on draught and pack, regular and specialties can be found on our website.

www.4pinesbeer.com.au/beers.

If and when you are ever in Manly we would love to get you in for a brewery tour, drink the beer of tap and experience the beer at different stages of the brewing process. Please flick me an email and well arrange when youre in Sydney.

Before that time and in the spirit of Christmas we would love to get everyone a 6-pack so we know youre trying 4 Pines as it should be. Can you please email me all relevant details and well have a mixed 6 in the post to you. For some this will be the first time you have seen our Hefeweizen and Pale Ale. Both great beers with a German style Hefe and a big hop driven, tight bitter American Pale.

Thanks guys,
Let me know if you have any questions.

Be in touch soon.

Adam.

[email protected]
0407 089 741


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## pimpsqueak (23/12/11)

Captain4Pines said:


> in the spirit of Christmas we would love to get everyone a 6-pack so we know youre trying 4 Pines as it should be.



Everyone? I'm in :icon_chickcheers:


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## esssee (23/12/11)

EVERYONE? If you guys are serious (and not just to the guys posting on this thread), you guys are the best blokes ever. BAR NONE.


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## Nick JD (23/12/11)

I'm interested to taste the Kolsch my mate in Manly raved about. The one I tried last week had a tang that was a little left-field of the usual Kolsch tang. 

Do you guys use wheat in it?


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## Batz (23/12/11)

Well mine came to me through Beer Masons and I would expect them to know how to store/handle beer.

How did others find their 4 Pines Kolsch from B.M. ?


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## adryargument (23/12/11)

Captain4Pines said:


> Before that time and in the spirit of Christmas we would love to get everyone a 6-pack so we know youre trying 4 Pines as it should be. Can you please email me all relevant details and well have a mixed 6 in the post to you. For some this will be the first time you have seen our Hefeweizen and Pale Ale. Both great beers with a German style Hefe and a big hop driven, tight bitter American Pale.



Love to see breweries giving back to the community!


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## Bada Bing Brewery (23/12/11)

pimpsqueak said:


> Everyone? I'm in :icon_chickcheers:



me too ...


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## Budron (23/12/11)

Wow, very generous offer and great PR.

I'm willing to give the Kolsch another go.


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## big78sam (23/12/11)

I would have thought they meant everyone who tried a bad bottle. A 6 pack for 23,000 members would send them broke. Happy to be corrected by Adam though.


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## pimpsqueak (23/12/11)

I actually tried the 4 Pines Kolsch from Dans about 6 weeks ago and I have to say that I thought it was a tasty drop indeed.
It's part of the reason I'm brewing one on Boxing day.


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## TedAu (25/12/11)

I had a bottle of the Kolsch at the tassie beer fest. Tasted great. Grabbed it from a bottlo that isn't known for craft beer and it was drinkable, but the flavours were average. 

But I've found the situation is in no way limited to one brewery or bottle shop.

I've loved S&W pacific ale everytime I've had it on tap, but out of the three times I've picked some up, only once has it had the full flavour I had come to expect..... Which might explain why I am working through half a kilo of galaxy at the moment.


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## kelbygreen (25/12/11)

couldnt be that it sits it out in a hot dock till they need it?? I had a beer that sells well local out in a rural town paid 30% more and it was not the same I guess it was stored for a while as the box was ratshit lol


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## milob40 (27/12/11)

well i am impressed to say the least, after emailing the guys at 4 pines they were very thankful and quick to resolve the problem. they are sending me a six pack of mixed beers so i can taste them fresh, looking forward to trying these.
i never intended to bag them in any way but just wanted to let them know my experience which turned out to be a very large liquor chain not handling or rotating stock as well as it could.
incidently my mini beer fest turned into a xxxx gold fest while i was away for christmas.
angry man pale ale 1 good 3 gushers/vinegar, red oak pale 1 good 5 gushers, fat yak 4 good 2 gushers. on close inspection most were within a month of their expiry date. why do people look at you like you have introduced them to running water when you tell them "these beers are off"? not even gonna bother taking the remainder back but will be emailing management. dan's are off my chrissy card list, gonna brew it myself or drink megga swill for portable beer from now on unless i can buy direct from certain breweries :icon_cheers: .
just wish we had a decent outlet up here for craft beer.
i think cold beer at dans is the better option when buying craft beer.
my hat is off to the guys at 4 pines. can't wait to sit at their bar next year :icon_cheers:


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## iralosavic (27/12/11)

If this is the time and place to bring up a dud 6 pack, well after enjoying the 4Pines stout on a few previous occasions, I decided to introduce it to some friends as the best Aussie stout avaiable within 10km and under $20... unfortunately this time it tasted like someone spiked each bottle with a tablespoon of soy sauce. Any idea what that could have been?! (Purchased at Dan's also.)

Regarding the Kolsch... I thought the 4Pines recipe was great, however, it's just not my favourite style of beer. It's a real pity that there are factors beyond the control of the brewery that result in the end consumer believing the beer tastes inferior to how it would have when it left the bottling factory. I honestly hadn't even thought about it before.


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## Nick JD (27/12/11)

Question is: how does a brown bottle of beer end up so messed up? What the hell are the bottlos doing to them? 

How does handling result in gushers? The culprit would be in the bottling line ... do the micros do any flash/tunnel pasteurisation? Contaminants in the process and/or equipment?

Gushers are also known as BOTTLE INFECTIONS.


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## Batz (27/12/11)

Nick JD said:


> Question is: how does a brown bottle of beer end up so messed up? What the hell are the bottlos doing to them?
> 
> How does handling result in gushers?




Exactly, and mine was from BeerMasons not DM.
I bet it was the whole batch that brew.


Batz


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## Nick JD (27/12/11)

There. I fixed it.


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## jlm (27/12/11)

Nick JD said:


> Question is: how does a brown bottle of beer end up so messed up? What the hell are the bottlos doing to them?
> 
> How does handling result in gushers? The culprit would be in the bottling line ... do the micros do any flash/tunnel pasteurisation? Contaminants in the process and/or equipment?
> 
> Gushers are also known as BOTTLE INFECTIONS.


Well I've wondered about this.....there's gushers and there's gushers IMO. There's been a few beers from various micros that I've come across (that I'm familiar with fresh) that have been gushers, however flavour wise they've been fine. 10 minutes in the sink and they're good to go. On the other hand, I haven't come across a bottled red oak beer in years that hasn't been massively over carbed as well as sour...... So does that make the first example under-attenuated and the yeast has kicked of again? Or are they bottling with a more attenuative strain that gets a bit excited when left out in the heat?


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## Captain4Pines (28/12/11)

Hi members,

Just to clarify. 

As big78sam said, 23 000 members receiving a 6 pack would send us broke 12 times over. Unfortunately this offer is for those who contributed to the thread before our post and had an issue with the Kolsch. We've been in touch with those members.

We would love to give a 6 pack to 23 000 people but in the interest of brewing beer and having time to develop a few interesting specialties this isn't feasible. 

If it were we would certainly get you a 6 pack.  

Thanks.


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## iralosavic (28/12/11)

Captain4Pines said:


> Hi members,
> 
> Just to clarify.
> 
> ...



Well you get my Kudos, although I had a dud stout, not Kolsch. (I'm not traulling for a free six pack, in case it comes across that way. I was just disappointed that I got the dud when I was trying to showcase it to friends.)

The best thing is that you're trying to keep the peace and offer consumers a chance to experience your beer the way it should have been, even though the chances are that the problem was caused after it left the brewery. That is a friendly and admirable thing to do, PR advantages aside.


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## craigo (28/12/11)

i bought a dud carton of stone and wood also from dans so i rang the brewery and let them no what do u no 2 weeks later a courier turned up on the front door with a carton courtersy of stone and wood. And it was delisious i was extra happy because you cant buy stone and wood where i live it certainly made my day now every time i see it i buy a carton of it just not from dans.


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## /// (28/12/11)

Captain4Pines said:


> Hi members,
> 
> Just to clarify.
> 
> ...



Nah, leave that sort of stuff to the guys at Barons ....


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## DUANNE (28/12/11)

i had a 4 pines kolsch and stout about six months ago and while the stout was nice enough the kolsch was so thick with diacatyl that i poured it down the drain. with the other beers as described here it does give me an impression of an infection problem at the brewery. dont know how dans can be blamed for that. too many aussie micros just cant seem to get a good grasp on bottling beer, wich is a real shame with craft beer still being in its infancy in this country.


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## redbeard (29/12/11)

I shared a six pack of 4pines Kolsch with bro-in-law over the weekend from a country nsw bottlo & tasted ok. ymmv.


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## Bodders (29/12/11)

Despite being too late for free six pack I thought I'd still post my own experience, heh....

I grabbed a six pack of Kolsch from Woolies at Xmas while visiting rellos. I don't get to civilisation much, but when I do I go looking for good new beers to try. I'd seen this on the shelves a number of times before on trips to Dan's etc. and decided to take the plunge. 
Yes, I got tongue covered in bubbles to start with, the mid palate was crisp with good hop flavours, but soon slipped into quit a strong and lingering bitterness. 
Not knowing anything of the style I persevered (poured the bottles and let them flatten out a bit), and it cut through rich food very well.
Looks like I'll have to have a second go at it now. What batch numbers or use by dates should I look out for when buying again?


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## boingk (29/12/11)

I've had this kind of issue with a bottle-o before, they gladly exchanged for another 6pack and said it would have most likely been improper storage during transit. They also said that its usually a relatively rare occasion.

Anyway, just my two cents on beer tasting bad. Yet to try the 4Pines gear myself but its on my shortlist.

Cheers - boingk


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## kevo (30/12/11)

Hmmm, this gives me an idea...

I picked up a 6 pack of Westvleteren the other week and 2 were gushers! Is this poor handling? If only there was something I could do...

 

Now to sit back and watch the beer roll in... :icon_cheers: 

Seriously, well done 4 Pines, Murrays & S&W, what happens once the beer leaves your brewery is beyond your control, but makes all the difference! All of the Pines beers are great at the brewery and the place seems really well supported by the locals, often packed, a good sign in itself for the beer.

Luckily, my mother in law lives 4 doors up the esplanade from 4 Pines and hand delivers 6 packs to my place!

Cheers

Kev


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## yum beer (30/12/11)

Had my first our Pines Kolsch this afternoon, very bloody nice IMO.
Bought from Woolies in Dapto while on xmas hols.


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## argon (9/1/12)

Got home just now to find a 6 pack of 4 Pines freshly delivered from the brewery. 2x stout, 2x pale ale, 1x heffe and 1x kolsch... Lovely. 

Chilling in the fridge now and will be sampling a little later tonight. What fantastic service!!

Will post some feedback later on.
Cheers


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## Nick JD (9/1/12)

argon said:


> Got home just now to find a 6 pack of 4 Pines freshly delivered from the brewery. 2x stout, 2x pale ale and 2x kolsch... Lovely.
> 
> Chilling in the fridge now and will be sampling a little later tonight. What fantastic service!!
> 
> ...



I got 2 Hefeweizens, 2 Kolsches, a Pale Ale and a Stout. All cooled to 7C.

The Stout is freakin amazing. I will buy that. The Pale Ale (amber ale, it's not pale) too. I get buckets of American hops Simcoe pine and Citra fruit, and an undeniable caraaroma maltiness and colour.

Those Kolschs I had from Dans ... nothing like these ones. Was it handling or a bad batch - I dunno. But I've also been taking notes. These ones expire on DEC 2012. Their Kolsch is very good - for the Corona drinker out there it's an easy transition. Bit bland for me, but a well made beer for sure. I didn't get any of the fruit they mention, but I did get hints of custard powder and a bready sweetness that I'm not sure should be there but it's delicious either way. Probably the hardest beer to make well, as it has virtually no place to hide a fault. Last one I had tasted like K&K - this one is smooth. Very smooth.

The hefe is good, but unfortunately I have a hefe on tap ATM and it's not as good as mine - but it's still great, I just have the advantage of pouring the primary into the keg and stuffing it in my mouth. The thing is I like a wheatie heavy on the barley, and I think 4 Pines have more than 50% wheat. Tastes like 3068 though. I'm a hefe snob - make Schneider Weisse and I'll marry you.

Will give a better review than this, but yeah - 4 Pines make great beer. That stout! ... I don't even like dark beer.

In my checking stuff out I find that the word "Kolsch" is like "Champagne" ... 4 Pines can't actually use it unless they are in Cologne.

I will submit my tasting notes whe I can type betterer. I'm no BJCP judge so it's more a stream of conciousness ... but it's honest.


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## iralosavic (9/1/12)

Nick JD said:


> That stout! ... I don't even like dark beer.



That's what I thought, then I got a dud six pack just when I was trying to convince some mates. Sad face.

It's terrible that it can be so hit and miss and the worst thing is that it's only ever happened to me when drinking microbrewery beers, often ones I've never tried before. So how many new beers have I tried and not gotten the propper thing and written it off as mediocre?


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## Nick JD (9/1/12)

iralosavic said:


> That's what I thought...



My notes are quite funny for this as I'm not a dark beer fan. _"Coffee. More coffee. Kahlua and coke. Coffee. Wait - jersey caramels. New car smell - no - shoe shop smell, in a good way (the carafa twang probably). Yum. Sweet, but not a lactose sweet - how do they do that?"
_


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## alcoadam (9/1/12)

In my checking stuff out I find that the word "Kolsch" is like "Champagne" ... 4 Pines can't actually use it unless they are in Cologne.



You don't miss a beat. And the correct pronunciation of "Cologne" with the German tongue is something I'm still working on.


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## jpr (9/1/12)

Grabbed a single of the kolsch a few months back from Dans it was really good. This weekend had a mates bucks party and wanted to get something to share around that everyone might find easy to drink so bought a carton petty they were all totally over carbonated gushers and tasted like a bad apple champagne kit brew. Even worse when you are giving them to people that only like pure blonde I wouldnt risk getting a carton again definitely not to share with people anyway. That my 2 cents


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## Nick JD (10/1/12)

jpr said:


> Grabbed a single of the kolsch a few months back from Dans it was really good. This weekend had a mates bucks party and wanted to get something to share around that everyone might find easy to drink so bought a carton petty they were all totally over carbonated gushers and tasted like a bad apple champagne kit brew. Even worse when you are giving them to people that only like pure blonde I wouldnt risk getting a carton again definitely not to share with people anyway. That my 2 cents



Mate, I think they sent out a bad batch.


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## super_simian (10/1/12)

Nick JD said:


> In my checking stuff out I find that the word "Kolsch" is like "Champagne" ... 4 Pines can't actually use it unless they are in Cologne.



'Cept far as I'm aware, we (Australia) don't recognise Protected Geographical Status except for wine; so you can call your beer any name you like!


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## tiprya (10/1/12)

When I talked to one of the 4pines guys, he said that "Klsch" was protected, but "Kolsch" was fine to use, since in German it is a different word.

(He also said they get emails about it all the time )


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## Jazzafish (10/1/12)

I'm not really a fan of bottled beer in general. Don't get me wrong, there are some beer styles that are fantastic bottle conditioned if treated right, but not every beer suits this. Generally, draught beer is always better. 

If you get the chance, go to the brewpub and taste the beer on tap. While there, order some food... I think this venue is under rated for its food... I have a fussy wife who doesn't drink, so brewpubs are a tough sell... However, she likes 4 pines. They don't really do a lot with beer and food pairing which is a shame, but I still rate the food above most beer venues in Sydney.


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## argon (10/1/12)

argon said:


> Will post some feedback later on.
> Cheers



Had 3 bottles last night:

*1. Kolsch*

Very bright pale straw colour, well carbonated with an initially large white head that lightly laced the glass. Good looking beer that would appeal to the everyday drinker recognizable as a familiar beer.

Not much in the way of malt, nor hop aroma. Did get some very slight sulfur that persisted as it warmed up. Not a very exciting beer to smell. Again, nothing offensive, just reasonably unexciting. No light fruitiness at all.

The flavour, same as the aroma is nothing too exciting. It is very clean and crisp with a very light (hardly perceptible) slight mineral and sulfur character. Malt sweetness and hop bitterness balanced to the point of neither being present. 

Well attenuated and dry to medium body, crisp with bitterness that is well balanced, leaving a very sessionable beer.

Overall i think it's a very well made beer. I would like the beer a little more if, using this base, a little more fruity fermentation character was present and maybe a touch more malt presence. 

I can understand that this beer (and Kolsch in general) can be seen as a gateway beer to craft beer. However, there is a dilemma that the brewer faces, in that the average beer drinker won't go for it, cause it tastes very similar to the commercial stuff they drink all the time. Whereas the beer aficionado will be looking for something with a bit more character as a special one off, or even as a go to beer.

For mine, the beer right now, is too similar (although very well made and much more drinkable) to 90% of the stuff that is both cheaper and more widely available.


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## argon (10/1/12)

*2. Pale Ale*

Lovely golden/copper colour and medium high carbonation giving a dense rocky white to off white head. Brilliant clarity.

Aroma of citrusy american hops, with a touch of caramel and toffee in support. Very clean and no grassy element to the aroma. Very enjoyable.

Moderate hop flavour again supported by some caramel and very faint biscuit/toast overtones. Medium bitterness, that is delivered softly with a pleasant grapefruit and pine flavour. Balance is only just in favour of the hops.

Medium to dry body, with the carbonation leaving a clean finish on the palate.

A very gentle APA, that is more in keeping with how the sttyle should be, rather than a mini-IPA. Very enjoyable. 

I will certainly seek this one out and drink again.


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## seamad (10/1/12)

Had a great lunch at 4 pines couple of months ago when down in sydney, good food and started with a tasting rack. The real standouts for mr were the english bitter and the stout, ended up with a couple each of those. To me the stout had a bitt of schwartzbier character, probably from carafa and not overly bitter, great place to goto if you are in sydney.


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## ploto (10/1/12)

Where can I buy a case of this that will be guaranteed fresh? I'm keen to try it but after reading this thread I daren't touch it with a barge pole from any of the usual outlets. I've asked in some of the smaller boutique bottlos and been met with blank stares.

Also is there a list of pubs where any 4 pines beers are on tap?


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## Nick JD (10/1/12)

ploto said:


> Where can I buy a case of this that will be guaranteed fresh? I'm keen to try it but after reading this thread I daren't touch it with a barge pole from any of the usual outlets. I've asked in some of the smaller boutique bottlos and been met with blank stares.
> 
> Also is there a list of pubs where any 4 pines beers are on tap?



Get on the Manly Ferry.


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## argon (10/1/12)

*3. Stout*

Very dark brown almost black with perceptible ruby highlights when held up to the light. Thin light brown head that laced the glass well.

Aroma of pale chocolate and light coffee. Not overly roasty, but some present at low levels. Some pleasant fruity esters of mild dark fruit.

Flavour same as aroma with coffee being more prominent than chocolate. No caramel. Hop bitterness and some roastiness bringing through some earthiness to offset a subtle chocolate sweetness as it warms. Enjoying the complexity in a beer that is only 5.1%

Medium to low carbonation leaving a medium body finish.

Most enjoyable beer of the night. Will be my go to stout from here out. In my opinion head and shoulders above the 1 dimensional and harsh Coopers Stout.


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## adryargument (10/1/12)

Interesting guys,
I received a 6 pack of Kolsch - no stouts or pale ales.

But not that it matters, enjoyed the Kolsch - i will heading down there later this week to enjoy their The 4 Pines Keller Door "Single Hop Series" and grab a steak or two.

1. Amarillo (USA)- A beautiful aromatic American Hop synonymous with APAs and golden ales.
2. Sorachi Ace (Japan)- An overwhelming lemon and lychee like aroma.
3. Galaxy (AUS)- Citrus and passionfruit aromas.
4. Aramis (France)- Strong herbal, lemon like aroma.

Hopefully will be similar to the PUNK 4 Packs :icon_drool2:


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## MHB (10/1/12)

Tasting it over the bar at Manly, I think its a fine little pale ale but dont believe its a Klsch.
I strongly suspect its brewed with dry ale yeast and then perhaps its lagered, again based on tasting all the beers on tap I suspect there is a house yeast that makes all the 4 Pines ales, not something you can get away with when making Klsch.
I really do admire anyone who makes a reasonable Klsch; its a very difficult style to make and there is zero room to hide any mistakes. This beer just didnt exhibit that soft delicate fruity bouquet and the incredible cleanness that makes Klsch one of the most drinkable beers in the world.
MHB


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## loikar (10/1/12)

As someone who visits Sydney 3-4 times a year just for food and beer, I will vote with my feet to visit the 4 Pines Brewery at Manly, just across the road from the wharf.

My Father-in-law is from a German town called Wuppertal and as a young fella frequented Dusseldorf and Cologne for his Alts and Kolsch.
He said that the 4Pines Kolsch (from the brewery tap) was "******* delicious", but not the same as a "proper Kolsch".
The old boy also loved the Pale.






I didn't try them, but The Stout was Roasty, creamy and delicious (below) and the Dunkel was also very nice.






If you're Eating, I rate the Pork Belly!









BF


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## jpr (10/1/12)

I would just like to say im not bagging the brewery or the beer. like I said the first time i bought a single it was bloody fantastic and the stout has always been great. It just sucks ass when you buy a carton for $75 to find out there all fucked.


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## Batz (10/1/12)

Well a bloke just turned up here in a van with a mixed 6 pack of 4 Pines for me, not many people can find this place B) 
A big thanks to 4 Pine Brewery, I'll chill them down and let you know my thoughts.

Cheers
Batz


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## milob40 (10/1/12)

the man with the van showed yesterday with a six pack.
2 stouts 
2 pale ales
1 kolsch 
1heffe
stout: not normally a stout fan but this is bloody good, lots of coffee on the palate and this would be a great beer to accompany a nice steak. a great winter beer to sip when the temp drops.
the kolsch i could definately have a session on on a hot day, a better choice than a corona.
the pale ale... nice hoppy flavour and finish, would definately buy this again but i would class this more as an amber ale , still delicious but a bit dark to call pale. love this beer, will definately buy again.
and dare i say it, i quaffed some wehestephan wheat beer at chrstmas and i must say the heffe was equally delicious, a little drier on the palate but thats what i go for in summer.
nice work lads, you have raised the bar in customer satisfaction.
just wish dans would get their shit together, maybe you can do mail order?


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## Batz (11/1/12)

OK opened a 4 Pines Kolsch this arvo, this was a completely different beer to what I had previously.

I really enjoyed this beer and would happily buy it again, I'm afraid I don't believe the first 4 Pines Kolsch I had suffered from handling issues but rather it had and infection.
As you can see by the pic this one is clear and carbed just right, my first bottle was over carbed, very hazy, smelt off and tasted as bad.

Anyway the guys are turning out bloody good ones now. :icon_chickcheers:


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## yum beer (14/1/12)

I found the Kolsch I had to be very enjoyable, nothing outstanding to rant about but would be an easy session beer. Bottle from Dans
Also had a Four Pines Pale Ale today, also a nice drop, not enough bitterness to screw your lips off or enough hop flavour to confuse itself as a fizzy fruit juice, but nice. Also from Dans...different shop

Cant get either beer around heer normally, a few sixers of Kolsch still floating woolies from xmas, but deff... no pale,,,
gotta get to Manly and drink it off tap...


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## Batz (14/1/12)

yum beer said:


> I found the Kolsch I had to be very enjoyable, nothing outstanding to rant about but would be an easy session beer. Bottle from Dans
> Also had a Four Pines Pale Ale today, also a nice drop, not enough bitterness to screw your lips off or enough hop flavour to confuse itself as a fizzy fruit juice, but nice. Also from Dans...different shop
> 
> Cant get either beer around heer normally, a few sixers of Kolsch still floating woolies from xmas, but deff... no pale,,,
> gotta get to Manly and drink it off tap...




I like the Stout, the pale ale needs a hop kick IMO.


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## NickB (14/1/12)

Had the Kolsch at Dan's Archive farewell last night. Have to say, my first couple of schooners were OK, somewhat cloudy with a belgian yeast character... Then later in the night, the beer cleared up, the belgian twang went away, and it was an enjoyable beer!

Cheers!


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## Nick JD (14/1/12)

Batz said:


> I like the Stout, the pale ale needs a hop kick IMO.



I also like the stout. 

But the questions still remains for me: would I pay the same price for an Aussie Micro than the real thing? 

$4. What will that get me in the APAs or the Hefes? The ones from America and Germany. 

Does it really need to be $4 for a stubbie at the bottlo to compete? Those beers from across the Pacific and Atlantic came a LONG WAY.


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## yum beer (15/1/12)

Nick JD said:


> I also like the stout.
> 
> But the questions still remains for me: would I pay the same price for an Aussie Micro than the real thing?
> 
> ...


Our excise really screws things up...notice the other day on Dans websitejust for an example...imported Peroni was $1 a carton less than the local made.....WTF...
and can usually get cartons of Oettinger(if your into that sort of shite) for only a few dollars over the excise on a carton of local brew...+1 WTF


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## Nick JD (15/1/12)

yum beer said:


> Our excise really screws things up...notice the other day on Dans websitejust for an example...imported Peroni was $1 a carton less than the local made.....WTF...
> and can usually get cartons of Oettinger(if your into that sort of shite) for only a few dollars over the excise on a carton of local brew...+1 WTF



I'd rather drink Oettinger than any of the Aussie Lagers that are all the same recipe with mouse wizz malt, and pride (pride? WTF - tastes like woodchips soaked in goat urine) of ringworm hops.

Mein Gott, ve needs to haf bein inwaded by dem.


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## Captain4Pines (18/1/12)

Hi Gents,

Just picking up on the thread after a hectic Christmas and New Year period and wanted to assist, amend, answer, correct a few posts but mostly just wanted to get out from behind the bar!!!

JPR, Iralosavic, Beerhog, Bodders Ive sent everyone a msg asking for your postal address and a couple of questions. It would be greatly appreciated if you could please email everything through to the address supplied. In doing so all those affected have been contacted.

In regards to the batch and with an extended sales team recently started weve searched, found and accounted for the previously mentioned Kolsch. After comparing the Kolsch in the trade to that in the brewery weve found inconsistencies with the batch. Everything still at the brewery had no issues whereas an occasional issue was found with Kolsch through the chains. No infections present.

The old Klsch question. We have and could literally talk about this for hours but in the interest of an essay, very basically as Tiprya has said its in the spelling. Klsch isnt to be taken out of Kln (Cologne) so the rest of the world brews a Kolsch. Obviously much more to it then that but I think that can be saved for another discussion..

The questions also been asked about freshness. 

Ploto what area in Sydney are you from? Ill get you a list of venues were on tap but as Nick JD said get on the Manly ferry no better way to experience. Everything packaged throughout the chains has been replaced and if ranged through the Indis there will be no problems. With a new sales team the beer is being pulled through much quicker and chains will also have no problems going forward.

Milob40 mail order? Unfortunately after bubble wrapping that many 6-packs and realising postage was up to $50 for some deliveries this isnt something were going to do. I dont think anyone wants to pay $50 - $70 for a 6-pack but as mentioned above the final collections are happening and everything in the chains will have no issues.

On a slightly lighter note; Batz, we love the view from your house. 
Is that where the brewery is? 
If so we are coming to Queensland to try a few brews!!! May even compare notes!!!

Thanks gents, 
Any questions please let me know its time to get back to the bar!

Cheers,

Adam.


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## Batz (18/1/12)

Captain4Pines said:


> On a slightly lighter note; Batz, we love the view from your house.
> Is that where the brewery is?
> If so we are coming to Queensland to try a few brews!!! May even compare notes!!!
> 
> ...




It is Adam and you welcome here anytime, shall I line up some glasses?

Batz

PS. Cheers for the six pack, really enjoyed them.


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## Captain4Pines (18/1/12)

MHB said:


> Tasting it over the bar at Manly, I think its a fine little pale ale but dont believe its a Klsch.
> I strongly suspect its brewed with dry ale yeast and then perhaps its lagered, again based on tasting all the beers on tap I suspect there is a house yeast that makes all the 4 Pines ales, not something you can get away with when making Klsch.
> I really do admire anyone who makes a reasonable Klsch; its a very difficult style to make and there is zero room to hide any mistakes. This beer just didnt exhibit that soft delicate fruity bouquet and the incredible cleanness that makes Klsch one of the most drinkable beers in the world.
> MHB




Correct. The Kolsch is brewed with ale yeast and then lagered however we do not have a "house yeast" although I'm sure the brewers would like one.

With only 4 fermenters and no less then 3 yeast strains at any one time they are constantly playing a juggling act. We currently have a new system on the way to help free up some space with a much larger capacity. 

Let us know when you're next in Manly and you'll have to get in for a visit!!!


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## Snowdog (21/1/12)

Have to say that I've been picking up 4 Pines Pale at Archive Next Door to keep in my fridge. Its become my after-work beer of choice, usurping Little Creatures from that role.

The Stout is excellent too, and made an excellent glaze for the Christmas Ham!

Have to say I been wary of the Kolsch, but may pick up a bottle the next time I'm in for my 4 Pines Pale supply.


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## captaincleanoff (27/3/12)

I can confirm without any doubt that the 4 Pines Kolsch uses 05 yeast.


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## captaincleanoff (27/3/12)

..... and that also it is not even brewed at 4 pines, but sourced from a brewery somewhere further up the coast...


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## ged (27/3/12)

On tap at Story Bridge a couple of months ago - cloudy, fruity, flat/oxidised character.
On tap at Brisbane German Club last week - clean, crisp, very cold and absolutely delightful.
What a contrast! At its best this is lovely beer. Try it at the GC!


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## jakethedog (28/3/12)

captaincleanoff said:


> I can confirm without any doubt that the 4 Pines Kolsch uses 05 yeast.




How can they call it a Kolsch then? I thought a Kolsch needs to be made with a Kolsch yeast?


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## captaincleanoff (28/3/12)

All of their beers, except the hefe and stouts use 05.


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## iralosavic (28/3/12)

Nick JD said:


> I'd rather drink Oettinger than any of the Aussie Lagers that are all the same recipe with mouse wizz malt, and pride (pride? WTF - tastes like woodchips soaked in goat urine) of ringworm hops.
> 
> Mein Gott, ve needs to haf bein inwaded by dem.



I agree with you Nick. The only trouble with Oettinger is how easy it is to drink! As I've heard someone else say before, it'd almost not be worth opening a stubbie as it would be gone before you even tasted it! [email protected]% for $13.X = Easy choice. For a little extra $ per litre, Hofbrau would be my preference, although that is a Marzen.

Back on topic. I also had a dud 6pack of stout and 4Pines most graciously replaced it and then some. The replacements were untainted and I restored my friends' opinion of it, which was the least 4pines deserved. Great company.


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## .DJ. (28/3/12)

jakethedog said:


> How can they call it a Kolsch then? I thought a Kolsch needs to be made with a Kolsch yeast?



How can they call Victoria Bitter a "Bitter"?
How can they call Carlton Draught a "Draught"
How can they call Cascade Pale Ale an "Ale"

How can they call Crown Lager - Premium  
How can they call Tooheys Extra Dry beer...  

Winemakers and drinkers wouldnt take a shiraz being labeled a merlot or a Chardy labeled a Semillion...


it seems to be common practice... maybe because beer styles can be so interchangable and arent clear cut?


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## brando (27/4/12)

Just had a bottle from Dans: overcarbed, twangy, musty, cloudy. About a 4 out of 10.


Couldn't find a use by date on either the bottle or six packs in the shop. Maybe I wasn't looking hard enough, maybe its on the carton, maybe not provided to consumers at all.


I've has this beer off tap at archive and it was lovely (8/10).


Something is seriously wrong with the bottling and/or storage and handling process.


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## Brend0 (27/4/12)

I was talking to my rep from 4 Pines, they are about to open another brewery (50hl I think) in Manly Vale, not far from their current brewery which will have a bottleing plant.

Maybe this will eliminate some inconsistencies in their bottled beer.


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## Brewman_ (27/4/12)

Yeh hope so. A bigger plant can also cause bigger control issues too.

Has anyone tried the Five Islands Brewing Kolsch? I had a chance to try it at the brewery at the Entertainment Centre on tap at the Gong and thought it was very good. I was impressed with most of thier beers.

Fear_n_loath


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## fergi (27/4/12)

bought a 6 pack of 4 pines kolsch from dan murphys before xmas, this made me try making an ag brew of kolsch, i thought 4 pines was clean/fresh .
havent tried it since but will give it another go, hope its as good as the first lot.
fergi


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