# Fat Yak - Ag Clone



## Tangles

Have a fatal attraction to the Fat Yak at the moment. Anyone out there developing a clone??


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## Tony

Not here but i plant to have a go.

I got a 6 pack and shared it with my dad and brother and it was very nice indeed.

COuld have used a bit more malt but went down a treat.

Anyone know roughly what hops it uses?


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## clean brewer

Tony said:


> Not here but i plant to have a go.
> 
> I got a 6 pack and shared it with my dad and brother and it was very nice indeed.
> 
> COuld have used a bit more malt but went down a treat.
> 
> Anyone know roughly what hops it uses?



Bit of INFO, another site mentions early hopping, late hopping and dry hopping in the fermenter....

I liked this beer....

:icon_cheers: CB


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## Muggus

Tony said:


> Anyone know roughly what hops it uses?


I'd be tempted to say NZ hops for Fat Yak.
Possibly NS in conjunction with something else.

Don't quote me on that, but it seems to share similiar characteristics.

Edit: Beaten to the punch. Good link CB!


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## Wisey

Now this is a yak.


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## Katherine

KT's hopburst

tastes better then fat yak out of the fermenter....


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## dpadden

I've been thinking about a clone of the Fat Yak using some inspiration from Tony's LCBA....would love some feedback

Recipe: Fat Yak
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 21.00 L 
Boil Size: 28.09 L
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 6.7 EBC
Estimated IBU: 25.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3.50 kg Pilsner, Malt (Joe White) 77.78 % 
0.50 kg Vienna Malt (Weyermann) 11.11 % 
0.25 kg CaraPils (Weyermann) 5.56 % 
0.25 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) Grain 5.56 % 
5.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.50 %] (45 min) Hops 5.6 IBU 
15.00 gm Cascade [6.30 %] (45 min) Hops 10.3 IBU 
20.00 gm Cascade [6.30 %] (10 min) Hops 5.4 IBU 
10.00 gm Nelson Sauvin[11.50 %] (10 min) Hops 4.5 IBU 
20.00 gm Cascade [6.30 %] (0 min) Hops - 
20.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.50 %] (0 min) Hops - 
20.00 gm Cascade [6.30 %] (Dry Hop 4 days) Hops - 
1.00 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs US05 Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 4.50 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
75 min Mash In Add 14.00 L of water at 71.3 C 65.0 C


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## LLoyd

Bit of a gut feeling on this one; Done a few side by sides to compare yeasts lately and thought I'd never find a beer style that was suited to S-04.. I have a feeling this one might be it..

I've been putting two 1.5 litre next to my main fermenter, one with a different yeast and one with the same (as the main fermenter) as a control. I'd be really interested in a comparison between US-05 and S-04 particularly for this recipe.
Any chance you could pull it off Paddo?

Lloydie


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## WarmBeer

Katie said:


> KT's hopburst
> 
> tastes better then fat yak out of the fermenter....


Jeebus, it's got over 200gm of hops in it!

It ought to taste better than Slack Yak

:icon_drool2:


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## T.D.

To my tastes this beer is not very hoppy at all. Not as hoppy as LCBA. I had a little chuckle when I read on the label that they use a "truckload of hops". Still a great beer, I really enjoy it, but I actually find it more malty than hoppy. 

So yeah, whatever the hops are, if I was going to brew it I wouldn't be using much of anything... Maybe 1g/L late in the boil and that's it. The recipe quoted above will be WAY too hoppy in my view.


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## Katherine

WarmBeer said:


> Jeebus, it's got over 200gm of hops in it!
> 
> It ought to taste better than Slack Yak
> 
> :icon_drool2:



I hope so, I like fat yak though, but as lloydieP was saying above on Paddos recipe US04 will leave a drier beer ?!?


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## dpadden

Not sure about the S04, whilst I agree it would make a nice beer (esp. with the NS) I don't think it will give the crispness of the Fat Yak that I'm after...


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## LLoyd

> Still a great beer, I really enjoy it, but I actually find it more malty than hoppy.



Doesn't sound like 04 then... Rips the 'richness' out, and FG may bit a bit high... Although the gaps in flavour do seem to return (a bit) after some lengthy conditioning)
I might be getting a little too used to bigger beers cos malty isn't what I think of with FatYak...
Ah well, off to the bottlo for some SamuelSmith Boston Lager.. :icon_drool2:


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## MHB

I've tasted this one a couple of times and frankly haven't been impresses enough to bother making a clone, however 
Considering where it comes from I think you can take it as given that there would be 2 maybe 3 malts max and 10-15% sugar in the grain bill. 
I swear I can taste Topaz in there, as its one of the cheapest hops available in Australia, no surprise that it's showing up in a few beers. 

As a first guess at a recipe- 
BB Pale 80% 
CaraMalt (Aust) 10% 
Sugar 10% 
Bittered to about 25ish IBU's with Topaz 

Finished with whatever you recon you're tasting 

Now, just have to figure out how to get as much butterscotch into the brew as the samples I tasted had. From all reports the amount of Diacetyl is highly variable, that's a worry isn't it? 

MHB


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## Online Brewing Supplies

MHB said:


> Now, just have to figure out how to get as much butterscotch into the brew as the samples I tasted had. From all reports the amount of Diacetyl is highly variable, that's a worry isn't it?
> 
> MHB


Yes some of the keg stuff has been well over the diacetyl level of comfort, the only good stuff I have had has been in the bottle.Its a worry all right.
GB


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## eamonnfoley

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Yes some of the keg stuff has been well over the diacetyl level of comfort, the only good stuff I have had has been in the bottle.Its a worry all right.
> GB




I've only had one good sample of fat yak, and that was the first I ever had. Since then, complete butterscotch rubbish. Way to go MB for launching your new flagship beer full of diacetyl. If anything its good training to recognising the fault.

I cannot believe they didn't withdraw the beer, for the sake of their good(ish) name.

the original fat yak I tasted was a dumbed down version of alpha pale ale. Alpha on tap is still close to the best APA I've ever tasted. Used to have all sorts of resiny dry hopped goodness in it. Can't get it anymore which is a real shame.


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## discoloop

I bought a case of this on the weekend and can't agree with the above. Maybe I just don't know how to taste diacetyl but coudn't pick up any butterscotch.

Fat Yak very much reminds me of a lightweight Squires Golden - much more restrained in terms of hoppiness and maltiness. I believe the hop used is Cascade but I couldn't pick it in particular - just some slight Americany hop undertones. 

Is it just me detecting an ever so slight euro malt character? I don't know, a hint of munich or something?


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## BoilerBoy

Only tried it once and while I agree the hop presence is quite tame, my interpretation of the beer was that they had deliberately restrained the hops so the intended malt flavour could shine through, which to me tasted like a fair dose of Vienna, it didn't register to me as being like butterscotch at all.

I didn't find it a bad beer or even a good beer and probably wouldn't buy it again, but for drinkers who would find a standard APA a bit of a quantum leap in there limited taste experience (and many do!) its a gentle compromise.

Cheers,
BB


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## Fourstar

Something i knocked up a while ago in beersmith. Might try my hand at brewing it for summer. Still weighing up to use 100g of crystal or 200g of caramalt. decisions, decisions. 

Fat Yak Clone 
American Pale Ale 

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 23.00 L
Brewer: Braden 
Boil Size: 30.90 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: My Brew Pot (40L) and Frosty Cooler (38L) 
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 68.0 
Taste Notes: 

Ingredients
4.50 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (1.7 SRM) Grain 80.4 % 
0.50 kg Carafoam (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM) Grain 8.9 % 
0.50 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (7.1 SRM) Grain 8.9 % 
0.10 kg Crystal (Joe White) (34.2 SRM) Grain 1.8 % 
30.00 gm Cascade [7.80%] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 28.5 IBU 
20.00 gm Cascade [7.80%] (10 min) Hops 6.3 IBU 
10.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.50%] (10 min) Hops 4.6 IBU 
30.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.50%] (0 min) Hops - 

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.052 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.0 %
Bitterness: 39.3 IBU
Est Color: 4.9 SRM 

Mash Profile
Mash In Add 15.00 L of water at 71.1 C 65.0 C 75 min 
Mash Out Add 10.00 L of water at 97.6 C 77.0 C 10 min


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## dpadden

What do you reckon about dry hopping fourstar? not needed for this one?


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## Fourstar

personally... YES! keeping to being a clone, i'd say no.

Im sure the 1st time i had this it was before it was even being marketed. and im positive it WAS dry hopped (even though it was my 4th pint for the day~). I had it in lambsgobar in collingwood/fitzroy, It was really hazy and had an awesome grassy cascade notes to the aroma and flavour. It was very much like a balls-to-the-wall AIPA, SWMBO'd had to drag me out before i could get another one! i dont know if they did a limited run or a few trials before settiling on their current recipe but whatever i had, it ticked all the boxes. The stuff in the bottles and out of the taps now is a great beer, just a little lack luster. The hop flavour profile really reminded me of Hargreaves Hill ESB.

Back on topic, i'd probably dry hop 10g each of Sauvin and Cascade. Or you could add another 5g each of those, just to be safe :icon_drool2:


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## T.D.

I think even that will be too hoppy. A very subtle hop flavour is what you're after with this beer I reckon.

Also not sure NS is the best one to use. I can't put my finger on what the late hop is though (goes to show how subtle it is).

Your recipe also has JW Crystal as 34 SRM. That would be more like Caramalt's SRM.


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## Fourstar

T.D. said:


> I think even that will be too hoppy. A very subtle hop flavour is what you're after with this beer I reckon.
> Also not sure NS is the best one to use. I can't put my finger on what the late hop is though (goes to show how subtle it is).
> Your recipe also has JW Crystal as 34 SRM. That would be more like Caramalt's SRM.



Err Caramalt is like 20 SRM~ (+- 5 SRM from what i calculate). Its really really light, my beer colours match up with what i pop into beersmith and ive also adjusted the colours in Beersmith too for the JW malt snap-in. jw malts from beersmith.com are incorrect SRM values AFAIK, adjust EBC to SRM from the JW website using the average of their colour, you will be suprised. my beers where completly out of whack until i adjusted.

I somewhat agree its proabably overly hoppy. may be better @ 30-35IBU but i created the recipe based on my 1st experience w/fat yak. uber hoppy.


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## clean brewer

T.D. said:


> I think even that will be too hoppy. A very subtle hop flavour is what you're after with this beer I reckon.
> 
> Also not sure NS is the best one to use. I can't put my finger on what the late hop is though (goes to show how subtle it is).
> 
> Your recipe also has JW Crystal as 34 SRM. That would be more like Caramalt's SRM.



Have you seen this??? I reckon NS is the dry hop.....

:icon_cheers: CB


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## discoloop

^^^ For those who can't be bothered clicking through to the above link the relevant text pasted below:



> Fat Yak is brewed with natural ingredients, including premium malts, American Cascade hops and a hint of New Zealand Nelson Sauvin hops.



http://www.matildabay.com.au/the-wall/news


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## Uncle Fester

You knew I'd have to have a go....

After positive reviews of the Pigs Arse (Pigs Fly clone) I couldn't resist.


Went into the fridge for some CC tonight. Tastes on the money out of the fermenter....

Here's the recipe... Sorry, couldn't help myself with the name...

Fat **** Pale Ale 
American Pale Ale 


Type: All Grain
Date: 21/07/2009 
Batch Size: 20.00 L
Brewer: Uncle Fester 
Boil Size: 23.47 L Asst Brewer: Princess 
Boil Time: 75 min Equipment: My Equipment 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3.00 kg Joe White Pilsner Malt (3.0 EBC) Grain 65.9 % 
1.00 kg Carahell (25.0 EBC) Grain 22.0 % 
0.50 kg Oats, Flaked (2.0 EBC) Grain 11.0 % 
0.10 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (118.2 EBC) Grain 1.1 % 
10.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.20%] (60 min) Hops 15.0 IBU 
10.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.20%] (20 min) Hops 9.1 IBU 
10.00 gm Cascade [5.80%] (20 min) Hops 4.3 IBU 
10.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.20%] (7 min) Hops 4.0 IBU 
10.00 gm Cascade [5.80%] (7 min) Hops 1.9 IBU 
10.00 gm Cascade [5.80%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 
10.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.20%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 20.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs US-05 Yeast-Ale 




Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.6 % 
Bitterness: 34.4 IBU Calories: 90 cal/l 
Est Color: 12.9 EBC Color: Color


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## MHB

I am interested in the processes involved in making a "Clone Brew" there have been a couple (3) ideas posted in this thread about what would work, maybe we should start a new thread on recipe development, I am working on an Innis & Gunn clone, being very taken with this beer at the moment, it would be interesting to see how other people approach the process. 
One question I have is WTF do I keep seeing grain specified in SRM, all the malt available is only specified in EBC, to use any other unit is as weird as seeing recipes posted in Pounds and Ounces (yes I mean you 4Star), being in a metric country cant we use the metric system?

4Star not having a shot at you personally, just genuinely bemused. I think one point you made was vital. 


> personally... YES! keeping to being a clone, i'd say no.


When making a clone brew we aren't trying to make a beer we like but a faithful reproduction of a beer we admire there is plenty of scope to make beer just for fun, but making a good clone recipe is a real challenge that I believe demonstrates a brewers knowledge of their system, processes and the ingredients available to them.

MHB


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## DJR

I seem to remember there was a post a while back about CUB purchasing all the left over NS for a particular year - they probably had to use up their stocks from the freezer somewhere so Fat Yak got a good dose of late hopped NS

Link here http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=192073


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## Fourstar

MHB said:


> One question I have is WTF do I keep seeing grain specified in SRM, all the malt available is only specified in EBC, to use any other unit is as weird as seeing recipes posted in Pounds and Ounces (yes I mean you 4Star), being in a metric country cant we use the metric system?
> 
> 4Star not having a shot at you personally, just genuinely bemused. I think one point you made was vital. When making a clone brew we aren't trying to make a beer we like but a faithful reproduction of a beer we admire – there is plenty of scope to make beer just for fun, but making a good clone recipe is a real challenge that I believe demonstrates a brewers knowledge of their system, processes and the ingredients available to them.MHB



No offence mate but since when is SRM imperial? Its merely a way of measuring light desnity/colour. It was developed by Americans and EBC was developed by Europeans. Upon reference, its actually caclulated via Nanometers, i guess that would make it metric. 

Anyway, as for the reason, well i just prefer to use the smaller numbers. I think its OTT having to deal with 800EBC choc malt when its 400 in SRM. or 14 EBC Munich, when its 7 in SRM. I also alot easier to work out the beer colour when the increment is smaller between shades. Either way Horses for Courses. if you are confused by it, convert my recipes by 1.97 

Any-hoo, I do agree with your cloning theory, theres 'trying to make a replica' or 'making a beer based on x product'.Personally whenever i 'clone', i go for building the base recipe that i think would replicate the beer. I will either then stick with it and brew it as a clone, or sleep on it and add things to it to make it more to my style, making that little/bigger brother version. I won't ever remove things from the recipe unless after tasting the base clone, i believe the ingredient was not required.

Cheers!

Edit: strange formatting


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## Online Brewing Supplies

Most brewers working in the trade here use EBC most Hommies use SRM. Each to their own.I prefer EBC as I understand what it equates to. IBU or HBU.Same difference. Neither is wrong.
GB


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## Uncle Fester

Uncle Fester said:


> You knew I'd have to have a go....
> 
> After positive reviews of the Pigs Arse (Pigs Fly clone) I couldn't resist.
> 
> 
> Went into the fridge for some CC tonight. Tastes on the money out of the fermenter....
> 
> Here's the recipe... Sorry, couldn't help myself with the name...
> 
> Fat **** Pale Ale
> American Pale Ale
> 
> 
> Type: All Grain
> Date: 21/07/2009
> Batch Size: 20.00 L
> Brewer: Uncle Fester
> Boil Size: 23.47 L Asst Brewer: Princess
> Boil Time: 75 min Equipment: My Equipment
> 
> Ingredients
> 
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 3.00 kg Joe White Pilsner Malt (3.0 EBC) Grain 65.9 %
> 1.00 kg Carahell (25.0 EBC) Grain 22.0 %
> 0.50 kg Oats, Flaked (2.0 EBC) Grain 11.0 %
> 0.10 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (118.2 EBC) Grain 1.1 %
> 10.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.20%] (60 min) Hops 15.0 IBU
> 10.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.20%] (20 min) Hops 9.1 IBU
> 10.00 gm Cascade [5.80%] (20 min) Hops 4.3 IBU
> 10.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.20%] (7 min) Hops 4.0 IBU
> 10.00 gm Cascade [5.80%] (7 min) Hops 1.9 IBU
> 10.00 gm Cascade [5.80%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
> 10.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [12.20%] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops -
> 0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 20.0 min) Misc
> 1 Pkgs US-05 Yeast-Ale
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.6 %
> Bitterness: 34.4 IBU Calories: 90 cal/l
> Est Color: 12.9 EBC Color: Color




just kegged this baby up... Drinking nicely, 24 hours out of the fermenter!

The cascade comes through a bit too much for my liking. Next time, dry hop with NS only and see how we go, or maybe use the NZ Cascade instead.

Either way, this keg won't last long h34r: 


Fester.


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## MHB

The reason I referred to it as an "Imperial" unit is, well the definition of SRM is something like, SRM=10 X the Absorbance of 430nm light passing through a half inch sample. Effectively the absorbance in a 5 inch glass, it's just a tooled up way of doing the old Lovibond sight tube and coloured glass disc method.

When we are using it to describe the effect a malt will have on the colour of a beer, when all the malt available to us is specified in EBC and sold to us in Kilograms, to me it makes no sense to tell people they need:-

15&1/2 Slugs of Malt, 1.89 Firkins of water and one fortieth of a Zentner of hops to make 4 Hogs Heads of beer (the hops are Northern Brewer at 7.5% AA).

Your right SRM and EBC do (now) describe the same thing, in different terms; as do all the units I used above, as do pounds and gallons it's just not real helpful.

MHB


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## blackbock

After tasting the Fat Yak recently, I reckon all of you are being extremely generous on the IBU level. Sure there was plenty of late floral hopping there, and I could definitely taste the resin-iness of NZ varieties, but the bitterness was almost imperceptible to my palate. To suggest that this beer could be cloned at 30-35IBU is just not right. Sub 20 is my guess!


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## Fourstar

MHB said:


> to me it makes no sense to tell people they need:-
> 15&1/2 Slugs of Malt, 1.89 Firkins of water and one fortieth of a Zentner of hops to make 4 Hogs Heads of beer (the hops are Northern Brewer at 7.5% AA).
> Your right SRM and EBC do (now) describe the same thing, in different terms; as do all the units I used above, as do pounds and gallons it's just not real helpful.
> MHB




Cheers mate, i understand your point. I know how easy it is to interchange the values so converting it for explanation to EBC is no issue to me, out of habit, i always reference in SRM. Llike how the Metric system is taught in American schools along side imperial, i like my knowledge to be interchangable, especially when most of the HB resources on the interwebs are from a US source. It makes it easier to build recipes/formulate if you know what the conversion of SRM to EBC is. 

I advocate all to know both types for the above reason as allot of people get it wrong, the perfect example of this is the JW malt spec are completly out in beersmith. (unsure if this has been updated recently but i did it myself manually)


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## jayse

blackbock said:


> After tasting the Fat Yak recently, I reckon all of you are being extremely generous on the IBU level. Sure there was plenty of late floral hopping there, and I could definitely taste the resin-iness of NZ varieties, but the bitterness was almost imperceptible to my palate. To suggest that this beer could be cloned at 30-35IBU is just not right. Sub 20 is my guess!



I think the beer should be at least 35-40IBU, the fat yak from the bottles I have had lately have not finished all that great because the bitterness to me is too low in this beer, it to me really needs at least another 5ibu to liven it up a bit and give it a more refreshing finish.
Too be honest I can't imagine buying it in bottles again but will enjoy it on tap again at the casino for sure.

So yeah I agree however I think it would be better with more bitterness.


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## HoppingMad

blackbock said:


> After tasting the Fat Yak recently, I reckon all of you are being extremely generous on the IBU level. Sure there was plenty of late floral hopping there, and I could definitely taste the resin-iness of NZ varieties, but the bitterness was almost imperceptible to my palate. To suggest that this beer could be cloned at 30-35IBU is just not right. Sub 20 is my guess!



Certainly something interesting going on with the late hopping. I caught some hop floating in mine the other day. The tiniest piece. Must have snuck through the filter! Unless they've taken to dry hopping their kegs? :blink: Seemed like the Nelson Sauvin to me that was 'decorating' the head on the glass - the tiniest little piece of leaf! Just guessing though.

Hopper.


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## discoloop

Interesting inconsistencies in this beer. I've been working through a case of the stuff all week, but had one out of the tap with lunch today. The tap product had a much more interesting late hop character than the bottled stuff... But maybe the bottles were a little on the old side, or a dud batch. The case was on special.


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## blackbock

jayse said:


> I think the beer should be at least 35-40IBU, the fat yak from the bottles I have had lately have not finished all that great because the bitterness to me is too low in this beer, it to me really needs at least another 5ibu to liven it up a bit and give it a more refreshing finish.
> Too be honest I can't imagine buying it in bottles again but will enjoy it on tap again at the casino for sure.
> 
> So yeah I agree however I think it would be better with more bitterness.



Glad to hear that someone else feels the same way. It would be a better beer with more IBUs but from what I tasted, the real thing just has the nice hop aromas and an inoffensive blandness!


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## Fourstar

HoppingMad said:


> Certainly something interesting going on with the late hopping. I caught some hop floating in mine the other day. The tiniest piece. Must have snuck through the filter! Unless they've taken to dry hopping their kegs? :blink: Seemed like the Nelson Sauvin to me that was 'decorating' the head on the glass - the tiniest little piece of leaf! Just guessing though.



Was like the 1st time i had it, i could have sworn it was dry hop hazy. all the other bottles and beers on tap have been crystal clear and taste nothing like the 1st batch.


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## gava

from the recipes posted in here. has anyone tasted theirs and how close is it? i haven't tasted one of theses but we had friends around the other week who said this was a nice drop..

was interested in brewing this and want a nice recipe.. AG ofcourse..


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## dpadden

gava said:


> from the recipes posted in here. has anyone tasted theirs and how close is it? i haven't tasted one of theses but we had friends around the other week who said this was a nice drop..
> 
> was interested in brewing this and want a nice recipe.. AG ofcourse..



i'm tinkering with my recipe above, a touch less hops and about 85% ale malt, 10% wheat, 5% caramalt. Once I'm happy with it will post back up on the weekend and hopefully should be in fermenter by monday...will let you know


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## schooey

blackbock said:


> After tasting the Fat Yak recently, I reckon all of you are being extremely generous on the IBU level. Sure there was plenty of late floral hopping there, and I could definitely taste the resin-iness of NZ varieties, but the bitterness was almost imperceptible to my palate. To suggest that this beer could be cloned at 30-35IBU is just not right. Sub 20 is my guess!



I reckon you are right, blackbock. I just finished a case of this stuff after the last fortnight, and i don't think it would be outrageous to suggest that it is only about 18-20 IBU. After two weeks of it, I found it to be very sweet, very thin bodied and quite out of balance... but hey, that's just me.




jayse said:


> I think the beer should be at least 35-40IBU, the fat yak from the bottles I have had lately have not finished all that great because the bitterness to me is too low in this beer, it to me really needs at least another 5ibu to liven it up a bit and give it a more refreshing finish.
> Too be honest I can't imagine buying it in bottles again but will enjoy it on tap again at the casino for sure.
> 
> So yeah I agree however I think it would be better with more bitterness.



See, that brings us back to the cloning v.s recipe development argument. If you wanted a _relatively good clone_ of Fat Yak, there is no way you would be going anywhere over 25 IBU, if you want to _improve _Fat Yak to make it into a beer more to your taste, then go for it, but you're not making a clone, you're developing a recipe.

The other interesting thing I find with the recipes listed is nobody has made a sugar addition. That residual sweetness I taste in Fat Yak gives me the impression that there has got to be some sugar in there to the tune of around 10%


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## olde

discoloop said:


> Interesting inconsistencies in this beer. I've been working through a case of the stuff all week, but had one out of the tap with lunch today. The tap product had a much more interesting late hop character than the bottled stuff... But maybe the bottles were a little on the old side, or a dud batch. The case was on special.


I had my first taste of this 2 weeks ago, from the tap at a local pub. First impression was "bloody beauty, hops in a beer from the pub". Was almost as good as what I can knock out with kits and bits at home, (but at 10 times the cost). Next time in town, a week later, and I was actually looking forward to calling in and having another couple. 
Bad move, no hops except on the back palate, and I resorted to Old for my seconds.
Not sure if the keg had just aged (smallish pub and not a lot of drinkers who will step outside the 'new or old' parameters) or if it was a new keg with a lot less hop to begin with, but either way it was pretty inconsistent.. and very disappointing.


----------



## michaelcocks

oldy said:


> I had my first taste of this 2 weeks ago, from the tap at a local pub. First impression was "bloody beauty, hops in a beer from the pub". Was almost as good as what I can knock out with kits and bits at home, (but at 10 times the cost). Next time in town, a week later, and I was actually looking forward to calling in and having another couple.
> Bad move, no hops except on the back palate, and I resorted to Old for my seconds.
> Not sure if the keg had just aged (smallish pub and not a lot of drinkers who will step outside the 'new or old' parameters) or if it was a new keg with a lot less hop to begin with, but either way it was pretty inconsistent.. and very disappointing.




There seem to be some massive inconsistencies here:

Is it high IBU low IBU ? Everyone has a different opinion..
For sure it's got NS and Cascade hops 
I agree something sweet remaining.
There is more than "a touch" of dry hopping going on the hope aroma is quite high in the ones I've tasted (especially on tap..)
Touch of wheat in there too I think.


BTW Everytime I have had this beer I've loved it, and consider it to be fairly highly hopped (but with that amount of hop aroma maybe it's actually less than at first appears (my VB and New drinking mates like it ... so maybe it isn't high IBU... I dunnno now I am real confused ... Maybe my nose is telling me hop and my brain is saying ..."OK must be high IBU's then"...


Are they still tweaking the recipe at MB ???

Anyway I am interested to hear clone outcomes... Just did the Dr Smurto Extract clone of James Squires Golden Ale - absolute corker..


----------



## Fourstar

schooey said:


> The other interesting thing I find with the recipes listed is nobody has made a sugar addition. That residual sweetness I taste in Fat Yak gives me the impression that there has got to be some sugar in there to the tune of around 10%



Which is why i was weighing up the use of JW caramalt to get that sweetness. I think you have set it in stone for me now, maybe 100g of crystal and 100 of caramalt for that residual bready/doughnuty sweetness


----------



## gava

Fourstar said:


> Which is why i was weighing up the use of JW caramalt to get that sweetness. I think you have set it in stone for me now, maybe 100g of crystal and 100 of caramalt for that residual bready/doughnuty sweetness



I'll be interested in testing one of your recipes for this.. do you have a beersmith file?


----------



## .DJ.

with all this talk abouit the IBU's has anyone asked the brewery directly?


----------



## Fourstar

gava said:


> I'll be interested in testing one of your recipes for this.. do you have a beersmith file?



Yeah i do, however i am not goign to be home for the next 3 weeks to get it (going to vietnam tonight), see my previous post on the 1st page of this thread. my efficiency is set to 68. just duplicate my recipe into beersmith and use the scale function to adjust to your efficiency. Its as easy as piiieeee! 

If you want to go the caramalt option just agg 100g to the grains i have already noted in the recipe. you might need to adjust the base malt to keep it @ 5% ABV.

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=503975

Cheers!


----------



## gava

yeast: US-05???



Fourstar said:


> Yeah i do, however i am not goign to be home for the next 3 weeks to get it (going to vietnam tonight), see my previous post on the 1st page of this thread. my efficiency is set to 68. just duplicate my recipe into beersmith and use the scale function to adjust to your efficiency. Its as easy as piiieeee!
> 
> If you want to go the caramalt option just agg 100g to the grains i have already noted in the recipe. you might need to adjust the base malt to keep it @ 5% ABV.
> 
> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=503975
> 
> Cheers!


----------



## Fourstar

gava said:


> yeast: US-05???



Yep, I'd go in this order, Wyeast 1056, Wyeast American Ale II, then US05. just because i favour the profile of the liquid yeasts. BUT US05 is a safe bet.


----------



## manticle

schooey said:


> The other interesting thing I find with the recipes listed is nobody has made a sugar addition. That residual sweetness I taste in Fat Yak gives me the impression that there has got to be some sugar in there to the tune of around 10%



Am I missing something? Surely a sugar addition will lead to dryness and thin body rather than residual sweetness?


----------



## schooey

I said above it was thin bodied and sweet and yeah, it does have a dry finish.. not like a TED, but I still stand by my thinking that there is a sugar addition somewhere between 5-10% in it... Happy to be shot down though


----------



## manticle

Not arguing with that - was just disconcerted by the idea that sweetness = sugar.

The one and only time I tried fat yak I would have said lots of late or dry hopping but not outstanding on bittering additions. Not enough of a fan to offer more.


----------



## Effect

tried fat yak today - totally dissapointed.

but hey, I was expecting something else than what it probably wanted to achieve

Cheers
Phil


----------



## MHB

Sugar isn't added to sweeten the beer in fact it's there to make the beer less malty (sweet). The Carra or Crystal are contributing dextrins to the beer, by lightening the body of the beer these flavours come to the front, as does the bitterness.

It's all about "Perceived" characters for commercial brewers this type of thinking makes perfect sense, they can make a beer that tastes sweeter and/or bitterer while using less of the more expensive ingredients like modified malt and hops.

It's usually pretty easy to tell when there's a dollop of sugar in the brew, step 1 is to take an FG of the beer you want to clone, the alcohol content is on the bottle so there's your OG.

With those 2 bits of information your half way there.



MHB


----------



## masculator002

try columbus amarillo and chinook for the hops, fat yak tastes surprisingly similar to a APA i make using these hops and the yeast to use is the american ale yeast from craftbrewer (us-56 or s05in fermentis) use a lot of hops in the second and final stages of the boil. i.e. 30 grams 60 minutes 30 grams 15 minutes and 30 grams 1 to 2 minutes. (these amounts are for illustration of the point only) aim for ibus to be around the mid 40s or higher. pale malt is all that is needed however the addition of a small amount of amber malt will make the flavour a little more malty. I swear they stole the recipe from me....lol. other possible substitutions include northern brewer, however dont over use this hop as it will dominate, balance with cascade, could also use small amounts of sauvin but if you do you should use a hop like chinook in equal or greater amounts. Happy brewing.


----------



## masculator002

it is a better beer in bottles than on tap for some reason. dont know why because my version was equally as good in the keg as in bottles.


----------



## mr_tyreman

My local has it on tap...had a big night on it Saturday night....woke up a lil worse for wear, but not hungover.


----------



## .DJ.

I asked the brewery about the IBU's... Interesting reply...



> Thank you for taking the time to contact us at Matilda Bay.
> 
> Unfortunately we can not disclose this information. However what I can tell you is that it has an identical BU value to VB. It tastes more hoppy because of the dry hop addition in storage whilst very little bitterness is absorbed it does impart the flavour.


----------



## technocat

.DJ. said:


> I asked the brewery about the IBU's... Interesting reply...
> 
> Fair enough now all we need to know is the IBU of VB, commonly known as given the run around.


----------



## ham2k

from
http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/articles_hops.htm

*Victoria Bitter 26 BU *
Coopers Sparkling Ale 24 BU 
Guinness Stout 47 BU 
Bass Pale Ale 30 BU 
Lowenbrau 24 BU 
Pilsner Urquell 43 BU 
Cascade Premium Lager 25 BU

Don't know where they got these figures from tho.


----------



## gava

Has anyone tried making one of theses recipes yet? if so how'd it go?

Thinking of doing this as my next brew..


----------



## Fourstar

gava said:


> Has anyone tried making one of theses recipes yet? if so how'd it go?
> 
> Thinking of doing this as my next brew..



So you didn't end up doing my theorised recipe?

Be interested to see what its like. if i had some NS i would be doing it right about now. a decent summer quaffer!


----------



## gava

not yet.. I thought if someone else had brewed it already and may have required some adjustments I could learn... but im going to go with your recipe and see how it turns out..

(I only tasted fat yak myself the other day, With the warmer days coming I think this is a must)


----------



## Fourstar

gava said:


> not yet.. I thought if someone else had brewed it already and may have required some adjustments I could learn... but im going to go with your recipe and see how it turns out..
> 
> (I only tasted fat yak myself the other day, With the warmer days coming I think this is a must)



Interested to know how it goes mate. Looking back on the recipe, i think it should do the FY justice, might not be a clone, but close enough to be a long lost cousin! :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## MaestroMatt

I know Paddo had a go already. Seem to remember him saying some good things about it.

I just racked and dry-hopped my extract version of his FY clone recipe and is smelling pretty darn good.


----------



## MarkBastard

What's the recipe for that one mate?


----------



## dpadden

Yeah it was a great beer. Not too similar to Fat Yak though as hop flavour and aroma were a lot more in your face. Having said that, I preferred mine 

I found the cascade and nelson worked really well together and will do it again soon. Needless to say I got through this batch pretty quickly :icon_cheers:


----------



## dpadden

4.0 kg Joe White Ale Malt
0.5kg Joe White Wheat Malt
0.2kg Crystal 40
5g Nelson Sauvin, 10g Cascade Hops @ 45 min
10g Nelson Sauvin, 15g Cascade Hops @ 10 min
15g Nelson Sauvin, 15g Cascade Hops @ 0 min
20g Cascade Hops dry hopped


----------



## MarkBastard

Nice. Can't see how that recipe could be bad even if it turned out nothing like fat yak.


----------



## boingk

Nice stuff, might have to break out the BIAB rig and have a shot at this one. Agreed that its a pleasing beer (if you get a good one?) but I haven't had a dud myself yet. Haven't tried it in bottles, and the places I've had it on tap had a high turnover of it. That was up at Blue Cow ski bar, by the way.

Anywho, will write back with an eventual recipe and report when I've gotten around to it.

Cheers - boingk


----------



## Thirsty Boy

You guys might struggle a little to get the right malt profile on Fat Yak.. its made at Cascade now and Cascade malt their own barley. Now I don't know if they use that brewery malted barley for the FY... but I would suspect they do. So I would probably be looking to use a malt closer to a continental pilsner malt as the base. Think about the malt flavours in Cacade premium... pale, quite "pilsner" in character with fresh bread, a little hint of toasty and with higher DMS than you get in mainstream malts. Failing that - the sacks of malt I saw lying around on the floor at MB seemed to all be Weyermann.. and Fosters buys all their main malts from Barret Burston... so the original Fat Yak was probably made using either Weyermann or BB malts.

Also, I seriously doubt if there is a sugar addition in the FY - the MB boys (and Girl) aren't prone to adjunct beers and I don't taste _that_ serious a shift in the beer since it moved from being produced at the Garage to being made at Cascade.


----------



## Fourstar

Good response Thirsty. It seems to account for the flavour change i noticed from when it first made its way around in kegs.

I'd have to agree with the pilsner note from a recent tasting from a bottle, the base malt is realtivly 'flat'. it would be safe to say you could scrap the munich addition from my recipe if you want todays version.


----------



## gava

Fourstar said:


> Ingredients
> 0.50 kg Carafoam (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM) Grain 8.9 %
> 0.10 kg Crystal (Joe White) (34.2 SRM) Grain 1.8 %



are there any subsitute for the above grains?

I have the following in my store
Weyermann - Carahell
Weyermann - Munich 1
Joe White - Wheat


----------



## BeerGimp

hey guys, i am new to this, i was trying to find a way to clone fat yak with a beer kit? any tips, i am still an amatuer, and too scared to to an all grain beer.


----------



## MarkBastard

BeerGimp said:


> hey guys, i am new to this, i was trying to find a way to clone fat yak with a beer kit? any tips, i am still an amatuer, and too scared to to an all grain beer.



I'd doubt you'd be able to get very close, but I'd imagine if you used a coopers pale ale tin, a can of pale liquid malt extract, and the above late hop additions, that's as close as you'll get.


----------



## lefty2446

Mark^Bastard said:


> I'd doubt you'd be able to get very close, but I'd imagine if you used a coopers pale ale tin, a can of pale liquid malt extract, and the above late hop additions, that's as close as you'll get.



BeerGimp, I really do think it's worth a try. You might have to figure out how you can do a full wort boil for the hop additions and i'd be inclined to partial mash 1kg pilsner malt to throw in instead of the 1kg extract. This will give your beer a lovely head retention capability and 'freshen' up the kit. You don't say where you are but if your in Brisbane I might be able to help you.

Partial mashing is easy and can be dome with simple kitchen items.

The best bit about this hobby is we get to drink the failures to figure out where we went wrong to improve next time, there is always next time :icon_cheers: 

Lefty


----------



## Fourstar

gava said:


> are there any subsitute for the above grains?
> 
> I have the following in my store
> Weyermann - Carahell
> Weyermann - Munich 1
> Joe White - Wheat



Carahell for Caramalt - Light crystal sweetness
What for Carafoam/carapils - head retention/dextrinous

Id prefer Carared for caramalt but the carahell should suffice.


----------



## BeerGimp

lefty2446 said:


> BeerGimp, I really do think it's worth a try. You might have to figure out how you can do a full wort boil for the hop additions and i'd be inclined to partial mash 1kg pilsner malt to throw in instead of the 1kg extract. This will give your beer a lovely head retention capability and 'freshen' up the kit. You don't say where you are but if your in Brisbane I might be able to help you.
> 
> Partial mashing is easy and can be dome with simple kitchen items.
> 
> The best bit about this hobby is we get to drink the failures to figure out where we went wrong to improve next time, there is always next time :icon_cheers:
> 
> Lefty



sounds great, i am in tassie tho. but i think what i just did was a partial mash, not sure. i just made a chocolate stout, used some roasted malt, crushed it up, boiled it for a while, let it cool, then strained the malt out, and used the malty water in the brew. is that what you mean?


----------



## MaestroMatt

I recently made an extract version of Paddo's recipe above.....still in the secondary but looking and tasting damn fine so far....

See here.

The first brew I ever did had a partial mash....I know it wasn't perfectly at the temperature that it was suppsoed to be but the beer turned out fantastic.

My suggestion is to give it a go.


----------



## gava

hi... taking into count what Thirsty_boy said about the base malt.. I've come up with this recipe (from what I have at in stock)

will this have a nice Fat Yak type of taste? or will it just be arse?



BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Copy of Fat Yak - Knock Off
Brewer: Gavins Brewhouse
Asst Brewer: 
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 30.72 L
Estimated OG: 1.057 SG
Estimated Color: 4.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 26.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4.50 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (1.Grain 80.36 % 
0.50 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (7.1 SRM) Grain 8.93 % 
0.50 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (1.8 SRGrain 8.93 % 
0.10 kg Carahell (Weyermann) (13.0 SRM) Grain 1.79 % 
30.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (60 min) Hops 17.6 IBU 
10.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.50 %] (10 min) Hops 4.5 IBU 
20.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (10 min) Hops 4.3 IBU 
30.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.50 %] (0 min) Hops - 
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-05(56))Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 5.60 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
75 min Mash In Add 14.60 L of water at 74.5 C 65.6 C 
10 min Mash Out Add 9.35 L of water at 94.9 C 75.6 C


----------



## Fourstar

looks fine to me. Although JW pils has a distinct sweetness, i'd go for JW Traditional Ale if you have it.


----------



## gava

Cheers fourstar I do have JW Trad Ale.. I will try this next time


----------



## lespaul

lefty2446 said:


> The best bit about this hobby is we get to drink the failures to figure out where we went wrong to improve next time, there is always next time :icon_cheers:
> 
> Lefty


haha so inspirational, im just enjoying my first ever beer atm thinking about how i could have improved it!  

if anyone could lay out a "good" partial recipe for the FY id definatly give it a go


----------



## gava

gava said:


> BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
> Recipe: Copy of Fat Yak - Knock Off
> Brewer: Gavins Brewhouse
> Asst Brewer:
> Style: American Pale Ale
> TYPE: All Grain
> Taste: (35.0)
> 
> Recipe Specifications
> --------------------------
> Batch Size: 23.00 L
> Boil Size: 30.72 L
> Estimated OG: 1.057 SG
> Estimated Color: 4.3 SRM
> Estimated IBU: 26.4 IBU
> Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
> Boil Time: 60 Minutes
> 
> Ingredients:
> ------------
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 4.50 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (1.Grain 80.36 %
> 0.50 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (7.1 SRM) Grain 8.93 %
> 0.50 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (1.8 SRGrain 8.93 %
> 0.10 kg Carahell (Weyermann) (13.0 SRM) Grain 1.79 %
> 30.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (60 min) Hops 17.6 IBU
> 10.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.50 %] (10 min) Hops 4.5 IBU
> 20.00 gm Cascade [5.50 %] (10 min) Hops 4.3 IBU
> 30.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [11.50 %] (0 min) Hops -
> 0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
> 1 Pkgs SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #US-05(56))Yeast-Ale
> 
> 
> Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body
> Total Grain Weight: 5.60 kg
> ----------------------------
> Single Infusion, Light Body
> Step Time Name Description Step Temp
> 75 min Mash In Add 14.60 L of water at 74.5 C 65.6 C
> 10 min Mash Out Add 9.35 L of water at 94.9 C 75.6 C




brewing this right now---- although I've changed the base malts to Ale after advice... halve way through Mashing.. testing out my new 100kg scales to measure the water going into the mash.. lot easier..


----------



## shimple

Let us know how it turns out. Love how the FatYak Smacks you in the mouth with every mouthful...... 

On a side note, I would have thought the IBU reading would be a little more than 26.4.


----------



## jdsaint

Any chance of a can kit version, for fat yak any idea's?


----------



## MarkBastard

shimple said:


> Let us know how it turns out. Love how the FatYak Smacks you in the mouth with every mouthful......
> 
> On a side note, I would have thought the IBU reading would be a little more than 26.4.



It's the late hops that give you that feeling, not the bitterness. Drink a Matilda Bay APA just after a Fat Yak and you'll see what I mean.


----------



## gava

my cascade hops are wrong in beersmith.. it'll be around 34 IBU



shimple said:


> On a side note, I would have thought the IBU reading would be a little more than 26.4.


----------



## gava

Just took a sample reading 1.016 the taste was very green (Hoppy) little like the JS Golden Ale.. we'll see how it goes.


----------



## pbrosnan

discoloop said:


> I bought a case of this on the weekend and can't agree with the above. Maybe I just don't know how to taste diacetyl but coudn't pick up any butterscotch.
> 
> Fat Yak very much reminds me of a lightweight Squires Golden - much more restrained in terms of hoppiness and maltiness. I believe the hop used is Cascade but I couldn't pick it in particular - just some slight Americany hop undertones.
> 
> Is it just me detecting an ever so slight euro malt character? I don't know, a hint of munich or something?



I thought it was meant to be a lightweight Alpha. It's cheaper but not in the same class.


----------



## DEALE

I was at a talk where Chuck Hahn said the hops were cascade and nelson sauvin. I was also at the Cascade Brewery where they were brewing fat Yak, plenty od US Cascade on a pallet waiting to be used. So when I try try clone I'll start with these two hops, couldn't see cascade dry hopping, so I'll probably just late hop. No recipie formulated yet.


----------



## ramu_gupta

Hey Fourstar,

Thanks for your theoretical recipe. I gave it a go for my last brew and drinking the last of it now. It turned out to be flavoursome beer. Even, no especially, the megaswill drinkers enjoyed. Good malt but more bitterness needed I think. Not too similar to Fat Yak - but a great beer all the same.

Good work.


----------



## gava

I also had the same results... its tastie but no clone.



ramu_gupta said:


> Hey Fourstar,
> 
> Thanks for your theoretical recipe. I gave it a go for my last brew and drinking the last of it now. It turned out to be flavoursome beer. Even, no especially, the megaswill drinkers enjoyed. Good malt but more bitterness needed I think. Not too similar to Fat Yak - but a great beer all the same.
> 
> Good work.


----------



## Fourstar

ramu_gupta said:


> Hey Fourstar,
> Thanks for your theoretical recipe. I gave it a go for my last brew and drinking the last of it now. It turned out to be flavoursome beer. Even, no especially, the megaswill drinkers enjoyed. Good malt but more bitterness needed I think. Not too similar to Fat Yak - but a great beer all the same.
> Good work.



Comparitively, is the IBU range similar to Fat Yak? Or do you need more for 'your palate'?  Just wondering as i might do this beer soon as my housemate is buying fat yak every second 6 pack! Is the malt close to the original or too 'flavoursome'?



gava said:


> I also had the same results... its tastie but no clone.



Didn't you adjust the recipe i formulated Gava?


----------



## ramu_gupta

Fourstar said:


> Comparitively, is the IBU range similar to Fat Yak? Or do you need more for 'your palate'?  Just wondering as i might do this beer soon as my housemate is buying fat yak every second 6 pack! Is the malt close to the original or too 'flavoursome'?



I think I need more for my palate but maybe also a more for the Yak. I think the malt is too flavoursome but hey, I love malty beers. Get into it and let us know what you think of your own recipe....


----------



## Fourstar

ramu_gupta said:


> Get into it and let us know what you think of your own recipe....



Yeah, i probaably should. I had some fat yak yesterday and i can vouch it isn't 40 ibu like my recipe is set as! More like a 25-30. Either way i think i will do mine (when and if) with a lowww mash temp and maybe pilsner malt as the base.


----------



## MarkBastard

I was a big advocate of Fat Yak but this weekend I drank it on tap at 3! different places in the same day on the Sunshine coast.

And it's really gone down hill. Really far. Bit of a shame.

So I'm thinking screw making a clone, try and make something like the original Fat Yak, or something that sits between Fat Yak and Alpha Pale Ale.


----------



## limebouquet

T.D. said:


> To my tastes this beer is not very hoppy at all. Not as hoppy as LCBA. I had a little chuckle when I read on the label that they use a "truckload of hops". Still a great beer, I really enjoy it, but I actually find it more malty than hoppy.
> 
> So yeah, whatever the hops are, if I was going to brew it I wouldn't be using much of anything... Maybe 1g/L late in the boil and that's it. The recipe quoted above will be WAY too hoppy in my view.



They both taste of passionfruit to me. Could they be adding a little of that? Just a question.


----------



## shadowofdarkness

I still can't get over the number of people who want to brew multinational crap! Why not try & clone something from Feral, BridgeRoad or Red Hill? Support the independent little guys & you will have good beer for the rest of your lives, not just keep Foster's shareholders happy!


----------



## brendo

shadowofdarkness said:


> I still can't get over the number of people who want to brew multinational crap! Why not try & clone something from Feral, BridgeRoad or Red Hill? Support the independent little guys & you will have good beer for the rest of your lives, not just keep Foster's shareholders happy!



Plenty of love and support for the little guys around these parts...

I guess one way you could look at it - people wanting to try and clone Fat Yak - if successful, are more likely to brew rather than buy the real thing... therefore depriving the shareholders you so clearly despise h34r: 

Brendo


----------



## HoppingMad

The beauty of cloning a beer I find is unravelling the secrets of how a beer you like is put together.

Then once you master it a little and get close in flavour, improving on the original to suit your own taste (more hops, more toasty flavours etc). 

Cloning is not always a means to an end, it can be the start of an even better beer.

Cloning a beer well also means you have a commercial style crowd pleaser on tap for when non-brewers drop by as not everyone will appreciate your well crafted Lambic spiced with bog myrtle.

I don't think necessarily everyone here is worshipping at the altar of Fat Yak, but those like me that are thinking of cloning it recognise that this is a well liked popular beer out there with the masses and would like to have a beer like this to hand around.

Hopper.


----------



## mxd

shadowofdarkness said:


> I still can't get over the number of people who want to brew multinational crap! Why not try & clone something from Feral, BridgeRoad or Red Hill? Support the independent little guys & you will have good beer for the rest of your lives, not just keep Foster's shareholders happy!



if you wanted to support the small independants you wouln't clone em, but buy em ?


----------



## Screwtop

shadowofdarkness said:


> I still can't get over the number of people who want to brew multinational crap! Why not try & clone something from Feral, BridgeRoad or Red Hill? Support the independent little guys & you will have good beer for the rest of your lives, not just keep Foster's shareholders happy!


It's multinational breweries making the likes of Fat Yak that are converting the masses. Who will in turn support the independent little guys.



HoppingMad said:


> The beauty of cloning a beer I find is unravelling the secrets of how a beer you like is put together.
> 
> Then once you master it a little and get close in flavour, improving on the original to suit your own taste (more hops, more toasty flavours etc).
> 
> Cloning is not always a means to an end, it can be the start of an even better beer.



Well Said!!

Screwy


----------



## Supra-Jim

shadowofdarkness said:


> I still can't get over the number of people who want to brew multinational crap! Why not try & clone something from Feral, BridgeRoad or Red Hill? Support the independent little guys & you will have good beer for the rest of your lives, not just keep Foster's shareholders happy!



If you enjoy the taste of a particular beer does it matter where is comes from/who brewed it? Just, try to clone it, improve it, do whatever you like.

If you're placing your enjoyment of a beer purely on who/how it is was brewed I think you might be enjoying it for the wrong reasons.

Cheers SJ


----------



## dpadden

shadowofdarkness said:


> I still can't get over the number of people who want to brew multinational crap! Why not try & clone something from Feral, BridgeRoad or Red Hill? Support the independent little guys & you will have good beer for the rest of your lives, not just keep Foster's shareholders happy!



All of your 3 posts so far are pretty similar huh shadowofdarkness?

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...mp;#entry581909

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...mp;#entry578933

Matilda Bay competitor perhaps?


----------



## MarkBastard

shadowofdarkness said:


> I still can't get over the number of people who want to brew multinational crap! Why not try & clone something from Feral, BridgeRoad or Red Hill? Support the independent little guys & you will have good beer for the rest of your lives, not just keep Foster's shareholders happy!



Logic. You should try using it some time.


----------



## jbman

Love Fat Yak, to hell with Matilda Bay since they closed down in WA. Beer does not taste the same anymore so they lost my vote.

I am keen to try the Brewcraft Clone kit so I don't have to buy anything from Matilda Bay.


----------



## bum

How is bootlegging someone's product supporting them?


----------



## superdave

Gava, Fourstar; how has the recipe development been going? My dad is a big fan of Fat Yak so I'd like to make him a batch. It's the hoppiest beer dad will drink so keeps us both happy.


----------



## gava

I have a keg still of the recipe listed in this thread... Not sure if its a fat yak clone but tastes nice.. Little hoppy for me (its good once its warmer) mind you I did subsitute some grains...

To be honest I haven't had a fat yak for awhile so im not sure how close it is.. I might get a sixer and see.. 

In the end , a nice hoppy beer very drinkable..


----------



## Fourstar

gava said:


> I have a keg still of the recipe listed in this thread... Not sure if its a fat yak clone but tastes nice.. Little hoppy for me (its good once its warmer) mind you I did subsitute some grains...
> To be honest I haven't had a fat yak for awhile so im not sure how close it is.. I might get a sixer and see..
> In the end , a nice hoppy beer very drinkable..




I think the hopping rates should be pretty close. Maybe the malt profile needs to be dumbed down so something like:

95% Ale Malt
3% Carapils
2% Caramalt

They also note "its brewed from natural ingredients including premium malts" on their website, unlike their bohemian which states "100% golden malts"

Maybe it needs some sucrose in there, say 4% of the grain bill?


----------



## eamonnfoley

Ive gone off bohemian, dogbolter and alpha etc, since they were rebranded and put in the 4 packs. I wonder if they are still the same beers ? I should probably find out. 

They used to be so good. Alpha pale ale on tap was heaven


----------



## Fourstar

foles said:


> Ive gone off bohemian, dogbolter and alpha etc, since they were rebranded and put in the 4 packs. I wonder if they are still the same beers ? I should probably find out.
> 
> They used to be so good. Alpha pale ale on tap was heaven



I had a bohemian and it was fantastic yesterday. Very much a bohemian pilsner.


----------



## Supra-Jim

Have had the Alpha a few times lately and it's pretty tasty, good firm bitterness and nice aroma. Pity about the four packs

Cheers SJ


----------



## shadowofdarkness

mxd said:


> if you wanted to support the small independants you wouln't clone em, but buy em ?



Perhaps it wans't made clear..... When you clone a multinational beer like Fat Yak, you have obviously purchased it and continue to do so.... And you will encourage your friends to do so by offering them similarly home brewed beer. If, however, you brew a feral, bridge road, mountain goat etc. clone, it means you have purchased them, and by brewing clones of them, you will not only encourage your friends to seek them out and buy them, but, when you happen to have run out of homebrewed clone, you will also hopefully go and buy said independents beer. 

Logical.


----------



## Fourstar

shadowofdarkness said:


> Perhaps it wans't made clear..... When you clone a multinational beer like Fat Yak, you have obviously purchased it and continue to do so.... And you will encourage your friends to do so by offering them similarly home brewed beer. If, however, you brew a feral, bridge road, mountain goat etc. clone, it means you have purchased them, and by brewing clones of them, you will not only encourage your friends to seek them out and buy them, but, when you happen to have run out of homebrewed clone, you will also hopefully go and buy said independents beer.
> Logical.



The funny thing about this is clones 95% of the time dont actually end up as being a clone but an uglier red head stepchild (with the odd beautiful long lost lover) of a beer that we prefer to consume but was inspired merely by the hop/malt profile of the beer we where seeking out as a clone.

I can see your point but frankly if your beer tastes like the commercial example, your mates will drink your beer for free than go and buy a bottle of yak!


----------



## HoppingMad

> When you clone a multinational beer like Fat Yak, you have obviously purchased it and continue to do so.... And you will encourage your friends to do so by offering them similarly home brewed beer.



Fat Yak is like a 'gateway drug' for more hoppy beers and other microbrewed styles (as someone else mentioned). The grain and hop profile is a tad more neutral though, but it gives a newbie somewhere to start. I would prefer to have mates that order a Fat Yak at a bar over some of the other thin and watery options like a Pure Blonde any day of the week. If they grow to love grain flavours and hops and don't find them offensive after trying a Fat Yak Clone, then that's a plus. 



> If, however, you brew a feral, bridge road, mountain goat etc. clone, it means you have purchased them, and by brewing clones of them, you will not only encourage your friends to seek them out and buy them, but, when you happen to have run out of homebrewed clone, you will also hopefully go and buy said independents beer.



Agree with this. Once you get a non-brewer excited about flavour in their ale they will start seeking it out on their own. :icon_cheers: 

Hopper.


----------



## MarkBastard

shadowofdarkness said:


> Logical.



:lol:


----------



## dpadden

Paddo said:


> All of your 3 posts so far are pretty similar huh shadowofdarkness?
> 
> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...mp;#entry581909
> 
> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...mp;#entry578933
> 
> Matilda Bay competitor perhaps?



*cough*


----------



## shadowofdarkness

Paddo said:


> *cough*



Absolutely no affiliation with anyone whatsoever... I just love independent aussie brews, and believe that they need as much support as possible... And I don't like how Foster's go about spending loads on marketing to make a beer 'good'. Head on down to Slowbeer or Purvis cellars and get a taste of real micro beers, not macro-micro beers, if ya know what I mean....
And, hey, I may have made some big comments, but at least we got dicussing something, right? It's good to see all angles.
And I'm glad you can laugh.


----------



## gava

Finally had a Fat Yak again on the weekend and the recipe I used is very close... as stated before it is more hoppy.. I think if you were going for a true "clone" you were ease off the late hop addition and you should be good to go...




gava said:


> I have a keg still of the recipe listed in this thread... Not sure if its a fat yak clone but tastes nice.. Little hoppy for me (its good once its warmer) mind you I did subsitute some grains...
> 
> To be honest I haven't had a fat yak for awhile so im not sure how close it is.. I might get a sixer and see..
> 
> In the end , a nice hoppy beer very drinkable..


----------



## DKS

gava said:


> I have a keg still of the recipe listed in this thread... Not sure if its a fat yak clone but tastes nice.. Little hoppy for me (its good once its warmer) mind you I did subsitute some grains...
> 
> To be honest I haven't had a fat yak for awhile so im not sure how close it is.. I might get a sixer and see..
> 
> In the end , a nice hoppy beer very drinkable..



Gava Please advise and update and thanks for thread.
I've brewed a few darker beers lately. I, and a friend likes the Yak. Thought Id give it a go for a bit of variety. What would be your suggestions on the grain, Re: above subs?
I saw 4*s post and respect his judgment but thought there could be a bit of something else in there. Maybe a bit of Munich or vienna. Are you suggesting not the case?
I thought I might give this a go with Budvar 2000 yeast as its going to be available off a Bohemian Pils soon.

4* Did you get around to brewing this one?

Thanks :icon_cheers: 
Daz


Edit: Stuttering


----------



## primusbrew

So my brother's favourite beer is Fat Yak. His birthday is coming up soon so I thought that I would have a go at brewing something similar to it and taking a keg around to his party. I have been looking through this thread and other parts of the internet and have put together bits and pieces of information. There seem to be a few different takes on it.

This is from the Matilda Bay website:

*Vital stats*

Birthdate: 2008 

ABV: 4.7%

IBU: 25

Hops: Pride of Ringwood, Cascade, Nelson Sauvin

Malts: Pale, Crystal

So I am thinking something like:

95% JW Traditional Ale
5% JW Caramalt

POR at 60min for 10 IBU
Nelson Sauvin and Cascade in equal parts at flame out for 15 IBU (no chill, assuming 20 minute boil equivalent)
Nelson Sauvin and Cascade 0.5g/L each dry hopped

US05

I am not too sure about the grain bill though. I assume that they will be using malts similar to the Joe White ones. I am just not sure on which crystal malt (caramalt or crystal) and which pale malt (ale or pilsner) and at what ratios.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Anyone brewed something similar recently?


----------



## primusbrew

So I bought a couple of these tonight to see if I could pull anything out. Unfortunately I am not very good at identifying ingredients when tasting a beer so I wasn't able to come up with anything there. I was able to measure the FG though.

I got an FG of 1.011 and I think this works out to be an OG 1.047 and an apparent attenuation of 75.8%. So I think that mashing at around 66C will get me there abouts.


----------



## carpedaym

I had a crack a while back. I lost my recipe unfortunately (burglers took my laptop... and my backup hdd) but I'm certain I used crystal 60L, which I think was used at about 5%. That seemed to give it pretty reasonable colour and those subtle scorched caramel tones I associate with F/Y.

I mainly used this recipe as the based, but did some subbing to use up a can of goo I was graciously given for my birthday. Looking at it again though, I didn't use any wheat.

I was pretty happy with the beer overall. I think your recipe looks quite reasonable; but I'm not experienced enough to make any suggestions.


----------



## HBHB

Here's a popular one

*Type:* All Grain
*Date:* 22/06/2012
*Batch Size (fermenter):* 23.00 l
*Brewer:* Martin *Boil Size:* 33.27 l
*Asst Brewer:* Buddy the wonder dog
*B**oil Time:* 60 min
*Equipment:* Pot (13 Gal/50 L) - BIAB
*End of Boil Volume* 27.90 l
*Brewhouse Efficiency:* 70.00 %
*Final Bottling Volume:* 21.30 l
*Est Mash Efficiency* 81.6 %
*Fermentation:* Ale, Two Stage
*Taste Rating(out of 50):* 41.0
*Taste Notes:* .




*Ingredients*​​*Ingredients* *Amt* *Name* *Type* *#* *%/IBU*
3.50 kg JW Traditional Ale Malt (5.6 EBC) Grain 1 67.3 %
1.20 kg Caramalt (Joe White) (49.3 EBC) Grain 223.1 %
0.25 kg Caramel Malt - 120L 6-Row (Briess) (236.4 EBC) Grain 34.8 %
0.25 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC) Grain 44.8 %

14.00 g Topaz [17.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 25.0 IBUs

1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 6 -

20.00 g Cascade [6.80 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 7.1 IBUs

20.00 g Cascade [6.80 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs

20.00 g Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 9 0.0 IBUs

25.00 g Nelson Sauvin [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 10 0.0 IBUs

15.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs
*Beer Profile*​*Est Original Gravity:* 1.047 SG *Measured Original Gravity:* 1.046 SG _*Est Final Gravity:*_ 1.009 SG *Measured Final Gravity:* 1.010 SG *Estimated Alcohol by Vol:* 5.0 % _*Actual Alcohol by Vol:*_ 4.7 % _*Bitterness:*_ 32.1 IBUs *Calories:* 427.1 kcal/l _*Est Color:*_ 24.4 EBC

*Mash Profile*​*Mash Name:* BIAB, Light Body *Total Grain Weight:* 5.20 kg *Sparge Water:* 0.00 l *Grain Temperature:* 22.2 C *Sparge Temperature:* 75.6 C *Tun Temperature:* 22.2 C *Adjust Temp for Equipment:* TRUE *Mash PH:* 5.20

​*Mash Steps* *Name* *Description* *Step Temperature* *Step Time*
Saccharification Add 36.45 l of water at 67.7 C 64.4 C 90 min Mash Out Heat to 75.6 C over 7 min 75.6 C 10 min
*Sparge Step:* Remove grains, and prepare to boil wort
*Mash Notes:* Brew in a bag method where the full boil volume is mashed within the boil vessel and then the grains are withdrawn at the end of the mash. No active sparging is required. This is a light body beer profile.
*Carbonation and Storage*​*Carbonation Type:* Bottle *Volumes of CO2:* 2.3 *Pressure/Weight:* 125.27 g *Carbonation Used:* Bottle with 125.27 g Corn Sugar *Keg/Bottling Temperature:* 21.1 C *Age for:* 30.00 days *Fermentation:* Ale, Two Stage *Storage Temperature:* 18.3 C
*Notes*​Another version of the recipe i've subbed out the JW Cara and the 120L and gone with straight 60L for a slightly lighter version......i think the very light fruity Prune notes that come through in the version with 120L work really well with the Nelson Sauvin / Cascade combination, adding a level of complexity that works well.
_Created with BeerSmith_​


----------



## primusbrew

Thanks for the input guys. I was thinking about using some wheat but the Matilda Bay website put me off it. They have wheat listed as an ingredient for one of their other beers but not the fat yak. They wouldn't have any reason to not list it on the website right?

HBHB, that seems like a lot of caramalt. Granted I have never used it so don't really know. What is it like in those proportions?


----------



## pressure_tested

I just brewed 
3.5 kg Aussie Ale grain
1kg Wheat grain
250g CaraMunich grain

20 ibu select (had it on hand)

16g nelson 5 mins
30g cascade 5 mins

20g both flameout

And will add 20g each dry.

Hit 1.045 SG. Hope it's malty enough for all those hops

Hoping for a pretty intense flavoured and 35-40 ibu fat yak style beer. Will report back if it's any good. If not discard this advice.


----------



## HBHB

primusbrew said:


> Thanks for the input guys. I was thinking about using some wheat but the Matilda Bay website put me off it. They have wheat listed as an ingredient for one of their other beers but not the fat yak. They wouldn't have any reason to not list it on the website right?
> 
> HBHB, that seems like a lot of caramalt. Granted I have never used it so don't really know. What is it like in those proportions?


It's got a bucketload and it balances out nicely in that recipe. It's more like the original version of Fat Yak from 4-5 or so years ago.when it had colour, flavour and aroma.


----------



## DU99

:icon_offtopic: what yeast would you use.


----------



## dicko

HBHB said:


> It's got a bucketload and it balances out nicely in that recipe. It's more like the original version of Fat Yak from 4-5 or so years ago.when it had colour, flavour and aroma.


This beer is not a patch on how it was when it was first released.
It now lacks any malt and hop character and all I can really taste in it is a bit of Nelson Sauvin in an insipid malt drink.
What a shame, it was once a good beer.


----------



## HBHB

DU99 said:


> :icon_offtopic: what yeast would you use.



I've used US 05, BRY 97 1056 1469 Am Ale II and Denny's Favourite in it DU. They all work well, but i keep going back to either AM Ale II or BRY97 with 2 packs.



dicko said:


> This beer is not a patch on how it was when it was first released.
> It now lacks any malt and hop character and all I can really taste in it is a bit of Nelson Sauvin in an insipid malt drink.
> What a shame, it was once a good beer.


Not even in the same ball park for quality like it used to be now Dicko. That recipe above will take you back to the good old days of it though. Rich coppery red colour, bit of body and lots of flavour and aroma.

Once done, you'll understand the crystal i used in it.


----------



## dicko

HBHB said:


> I've used US 05, BRY 97 1056 1469 Am Ale II and Denny's Favourite in it DU. They all work well, but i keep going back to either AM Ale II or BRY97 with 2 packs.
> 
> 
> Not even in the same ball park for quality like it used to be now Dicko. That recipe above will take you back to the good old days of it though. Rich coppery red colour, bit of body and lots of flavour and aroma.
> 
> Once done, you'll understand the crystal i used in it.


Bry 97 works well and the next one I do will use Denny's 1450.
Might give your recipe a go, Martin.

Here is a recipe that I worked on with some assistance from other brewers and in the end it was very very close

Recipe: 041 Fat Yak Version 3
Brewer: Dicko
Asst Brewer:
Style: Australian Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 29.46 l
Post Boil Volume: 26.00 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 25.00 l 
Bottling Volume: 25.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.047 SG
Estimated Color: 6.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 37.2 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 80.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type %/IBU 

3.41 kg Pale Malt, (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 73.2 % 
0.64 kg Munich, Dark (Joe White) (15.0 SRM) Grain 13.8 % 
0.40 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (1.5 SRM) Grain 8.6 % 
0.20 kg Crystal, Pale Bairds (50.8 SRM) Grain 4.3 % 
9.50 g Horizon [10.30 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 10.9 IBUs 
15.00 g Cascade [6.20 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 6.3 IBUs 
15.00 g Nelson Sauvin [10.80 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 10.9 IBUs 
4.35 g BREW BRITE (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining - 
15.00 g Cascade [6.20 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 3.7 IBUs 
3.19 g YEAST NUTRIENT (Boil 10.0 mins) Other - 
15.00 g Nelson Sauvin [10.80 %] - Steep/Whirlpoo Hop 5.5 IBUs 
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast - 
25.00 g Cascade [6.20 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 0.0 IBUs - in the cube 


Mash Schedule 66 deg 60 mins

The whirlpool hops were added at 80 deg c and steeped for 20 minutes
The horizon hops could be substituted for any bittering hop. POR would be fine.

And here is a pic of the brew compared to the real thing on the right hand side.


----------



## pressure_tested

pressure_tested said:


> I just brewed
> 3.5 kg Aussie Ale grain
> 1kg Wheat grain
> 250g CaraMunich grain
> 
> 20 ibu select (had it on hand)
> 
> 16g nelson 5 mins
> 30g cascade 5 mins
> 
> 20g both flameout
> 
> And will add 20g each dry.
> 
> Hit 1.045 SG. Hope it's malty enough for all those hops
> 
> Hoping for a pretty intense flavoured and 35-40 ibu fat yak style beer. Will report back if it's any good. If not discard this advice.


So I'm sorry I took so long to come back here with results.
DO NOT BREW THE ABOVE RECIPE if you want fat yak
Malt bill was way too simple.

Do brew it if you like hop forward beers. it turned out kind of like a session ipa or something. I'm loving it but Definitely no fat yak


----------



## DU99

Drinking the version in post 127.very nice,the toffee/caramel flavours are there so is the fruit.gave a sample bottle to one of the guy's and he reckons very nice.will be brewing again.used west coast yeast(MJ)and used briess 2 row.


----------



## brad81

dicko said:


> 25.00 g Cascade [6.20 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 0.0 IBUs - in the cube


dicko, just for clarification - did you cube this?

I want to give this a go, but need to know if I need to up the hops.

Thanks,

Brad


----------



## dicko

brad81 said:


> dicko, just for clarification - did you cube this?
> 
> I want to give this a go, but need to know if I need to up the hops.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Brad


Hi Brad,

Apology for not getting to your enquiry earlier but I have only just got home.

the 25 gr of Cascade is in the secondary cube for 7 days.

The "_15.00 g Nelson Sauvin [10.80 %] - Steep/Whirlpoo Hop 5.5 IBUs"_ is in the kettle after I have chilled the wort to 80 deg c and then drop the hops in and let the wort sit at 80 deg for 20 minutes, then start the chill again and let the temp come down to pitching temp. I leave the lid on during this 20 minutes to retain as much of the aroma as possible.

If you give it a go let me know what you think....I have found it very close to the real deal  :chug:


----------



## brad81

Look I know you have a life to live etc, but I'm expecting a response within the hour, not 8!!! 

Seriously though, thanks for the quick response. I'll get the order into G&G tonight and brew this next Monday or Tuesday.

Cheers,

Brad


----------



## dicko

brad81 said:


> Look I know you have a life to live etc, but I'm expecting a response within the hour, not 8!!!
> 
> Seriously though, thanks for the quick response. I'll get the order into G&G tonight and brew this next Monday or Tuesday.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Brad


  :lol: 

No worries....

Dont loose sleep if Horizon is not available, you could use POR or Galena Or Magnum Or any neutral bittering hop to the same IBU.

I have done this brew with US05 Bry97 and Denny's favourite 50 and they all work well.

Good brewing mate.


----------



## dicko

Oh I should add that the IBU's calculated were Tinseth....


----------



## brad81

I use the calcuthing to converterise it. - scratch that, turns out I'm using tinseth too.

I notice that they have listed using POR on the site, going to give that a go. Is there any reason you'd pick Horizon over that?


----------



## slcmorro

Since Matilda Bay went to using POR (mayb it's just me?) I reckon Fat Yak has gone to shit. Tried bottled and kegged, both fresh (keg tapped 2 days prior0 and they were both horrendous.

I'll stick to my sightly modified version that I personally like...

21L

3.5kg (77.78%) JWD Trad (can use Pils or any light base really)
0.5kg (11.11%) Vienna
0.25kg (5.56%) Carapils (can use any crystal)
0.25kg (5.56%) Wheat 

10gm Casc @ 60
5gm NS @ 45
15gm Casc @ 10
10gm NS @ 10
10gm Casc @ Flameout (Cube Hop)
10gm NS @ Flameout (Cube Hop)

Dry hop with 10gm of Casc & NS at Day 5, ferm 18c with US05 for 2 weeks, CC for 1 week at 0c.
36 IBU, 4.8% @ 73% eff.


----------



## dicko

brad81 said:


> I use the calcuthing to converterise it. - scratch that, turns out I'm using tinseth too.
> 
> I notice that they have listed using POR on the site, going to give that a go. Is there any reason you'd pick Horizon over that?


I switched to Horizon as I personally like it as a smooth bitterer.

Each brewer and their equipment will get slightly different results particularly when it comes to hop utilisation.
The recipes above will give you a starting point on which you can make adjustments to suit your tastes.

There is some detail on another Down Under Australian beer forum with a recipe that Drew from WA made and it is very close I believe to the real deal as well. I'm sure a google will find it.


----------



## Mogamble

slcmorro said:


> Since Matilda Bay went to using POR (mayb it's just me?) I reckon Fat Yak has gone to shit. Tried bottled and kegged, both fresh (keg tapped 2 days prior0 and they were both horrendous.


It's not just you. I seen an official Matilda Bay poster a few months ago, that stated Fat Yak includes POR, Cascade and NS


----------



## slcmorro

Mogamble said:


> It's not just you. I seen an official Matilda Bay poster a few months ago, that stated Fat Yak includes POR, Cascade and NS


Nah, I know they use POR. I meant it's gone to shit since they have, at least that's what my tastebuds tell me.


----------



## DU99

This the recipe dicko


----------



## dicko

DU99 said:


> This the recipe dicko


That looks like it DU99. It is on a different forum but it looks the same.

I have a FY brewing at the moment with Drews hop schedule but as it is my first time at his clone I cant say how it will be.

I hope to have it in the keg in about a fortnite so I can report how it is then.

It is hard to get it dead right now since they have stuffed the original recipe on the commercial example as we can really only go on memory.  :unsure:


----------



## dicko

Just on a side note to you guys intending to brew this or get more info on the recipe.

It was the tragic event with the Malaysian Airline being shot down which unfortunately claimed the lives of both Drews parents, so PM's may be difficult for him at the moment.


----------



## brad81

So, first glass poured tonight. There is a harshness in the bittering which lingers longer than the other flavours. I'm going to grab hold of a 6 pack and do a side by side, but I'm not sure I remember it being so harsh.

4.25 kg Pale Ale Malt 2-Row (Briess) (6.9 EBC) Grain 1 81.0 % 
0.40 kg Munich, Dark (Joe White) (29.6 EBC) Grain 2 7.6 % 
0.40 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 3 7.6 % 
0.20 kg Crystal, Medium (Simpsons) (108.3 EBC) Grain 4 3.8 % 
12.25 g Pride of Ringwood [8.70 %] - Boil 60.0 m Hop 5 10.5 IBUs 
13.50 g Cascade [7.60 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 6 6.1 IBUs 
13.50 g Nelson Sauvin [13.20 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 7 10.7 IBUs 
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 8 - 
13.50 g Cascade [7.60 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 3.7 IBUs 
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 mins) Other 10 - 
13.50 g Nelson Sauvin [13.20 %] - Steep/Whirlpoo Hop 11 5.3 IBUs 
2.0 pkg American West Coast (Lallemand #BRY-97) Yeast 12 - 
25.00 g Cascade [7.60 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs 
Tasty though dicko, thanks!!


----------



## dicko

You may find a different actual hop utilisation to me.
I brew in a 20 l BM and I know I dont get the same utilisation as I did with a gas fired kettle.
I had to experiment a few times to get it close to my taste.

I see you have used medium crystal.
During the building of this recipe for one brew I used Bairds dark crystal instead of the light crystal and in my opinion it was a better beer but it wasn't a Fat Yak.


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## brad81

I haven't really tried to work out hop utilisation as yet, might check it out.

I order all my stuff through the same supplier, at the time I mustn't have been able to find or identify a light crystal. 

It is a beautiful colour, but I think I'll filter it next time too.





Thanks for the feedback dicko regardless.

Cheers,

Brad


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## Doctormcbrewdle

Unfortunately not much reliable worthwhile information I've encountered here as yet in relation to the grain bill. 

Fat Yak is DARK. It has more than 200g crystal.. Try 400-450g in a standard 20l brew complimenting pils or pale base malt, 5-10% sucrose

I, too used to really like this ale but it's damn well terrible these days. Megaswill at it's most unbalanced finest. It's sweet without much hop character at all, appearing a brown/deep amber. I've also encountered alot of the same misinformation on other recipes, namely Pirate Life pale ale. That's a very dark pale ale


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