# Coopers Sparkling Ale - How Long In Primary



## rysa555 (29/4/09)

Hi all
I have put down a coopers sparkling ale with safale S-04 yeast.
It has been bubbling away at 18 degrees for 4 days.
I was wondering when i should move to second fermenter?
cheers


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## Steve (29/4/09)

rysa555 said:


> Hi all
> I have put down a coopers sparkling ale with safale S-04 yeast.
> It has been bubbling away at 18 degrees for 4 days.
> I was wondering when i should move to second fermenter?
> cheers




whats your hydrometer reading?


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## samhighley (29/4/09)

rysa555 said:


> I was wondering when i should move to second fermenter?



Why do you want to move it to a second fermenter?

I don't secondary very many brews, and certainly wouldn't bother for a CSA clone.


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## rysa555 (29/4/09)

> Why do you want to move it to a second fermenter?



Because my homebrew book says...



*Secondary fermentation*
Secondary or two-stage fermentation is all about conditioning your beer.
When you brewed at the beginner level, you put the fresh wort in the primary
fermenter, let the yeast do its thing, and then you bottled the beer. The beer
had about two weeks to condition in the bottle before you started sucking it
down. You did the right thing (within the limitations of your equipment and
expertise), but now you can do more.

At the beginner level, taking the freshly fermented beer out of the primary
fermenter was necessary not just because the initial fermentation was over,
but also because all those little yeasties, fresh from a gluttonous feast, were
about to start decomposing. Thats right, enzymes in the sugar-starved
yeast begin to break down the yeast cells. This horrific event is called yeast
autolysis. Autolysis can impart a sulfury, rubbery stench and flavor to your
beer. So leaving your fresh, young beer sitting on that bulging layer of
self-destructing yeast dregs is akin to allowing your child to wallow with
pigs in the mud and you dont want to smell either one of them when
theyre done. Racking your beer over to a secondary fermentation vessel
effectively leaves most of the sedimented yeast and other organic matter
behind.


So if bottling the beer after one week worked before, why cant it now? It still
can, but now that youre introducing more ingredients into the brewpot, the
added flavors and textures in your beer need more time to blend together. By
allowing the beer to undergo a secondary fermentation, you promote a mellowing
process that makes a noticeable improvement in your beer.

*Considering the advantages of secondary fermentation*
Allowing your beer to age in a secondary fermenter before you bottle it also
reduces yeast bite, the harsh flavor and mouthfeel associated with having
excessive yeast sediment in the bottle.
Because the yeast has eaten most of the consumable sugars in the wort
during primary fermentation, secondary fermentation yields very little yeast
activity and rarely produces a measurable amount of alcohol. This second
fermentation period is just an opportunity for all the beers ingredients
to acclimate to one another and establish a good, friendly (and tasty)
relationship.

The secondary fermenter represents a world of new possibilities for your
brew. You can add many different additives and flavorings to the secondary
fermenter that may have a huge effect on the finished beer. (See Chapters 8
and 9 for ideas on what to add at the secondary fermentation stage.)

The two-stage aspect of secondary fermentation also allows you to perform
some real beer-improving feats:
 Dry hop: You can impart more hop aroma to your beer by simply adding
1⁄4 ounce to 2 ounces of hops (in pellet, plug, or whole leaf form) to the
secondary fermenter and then draining your beer over them. You can do
the same thing with spices, too. Chapter 5 has more information on this
process.
 Make true Lagers: In order to make genuine Lager beers, you must age
the beer in the secondary fermenter for at least a few weeks at very cold
temperatures (32 to 40 degrees Fahrenheit) for proper flavor development.

Clarify your brew: You can add various clarifying agents to the
secondary fermenter to speed up the process of clarification. Typical
finings and clarifiers include isinglass, gelatin, Sparkalloid, and PVPP.

One final vote in support of secondary fermentation: By using this procedure,
you can not only quit worrying about unfinished primary fermentations
(and exploding bottles), but you can also actually cut the primary ferment
short by a day or two if that helps you rack the beer over to the secondary
fermenter at a more convenient time. This shortcut is possible only after the
peak fermentation activity subsides (usually by the fifth or sixth day of a
normal, healthy fermentation).


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## manticle (29/4/09)

rysa555 said:


> Hi all
> I have put down a coopers sparkling ale with safale S-04 yeast.
> It has been bubbling away at 18 degrees for 4 days.
> I was wondering when i should move to second fermenter?
> cheers



It's not always necessary but if you're going to, about 3/4 through expected ferment time should be ok. I would primary for a minimum of 7 days before transferring.

have a go - see for yourself if it makes enough of a difference for you to do again.

I like it and find it makes a difference - many others on here don't usually bother unless lagering or bulk priming.


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## Westoz (29/4/09)

Fantastic work rysa i use secondary after my sg readings tells me ferment is as good as done .Recently did coopers sparkling 
can plus adds hops +So5 yeast S.G 1042 left 10 days S.G 1006 @18c now in secondary plan to cold condition for 3 weeks min.
I know from past brews bottling straight from primary whilst most enjoyable still had that slight twang .Made a porter thats been in 
cold cond for 3 months now plan to bottle at 4 .I know this has been done to death on many times but reading your research confirms
it even more for me especially for extra additions and clearing brews.


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## Jason76 (29/4/09)

Does adding Finings have a similar effect to racking to secondary ?
I'm at the stage where I'm willing to experiment now....
Both are to more or less clear up your beer correct ?

Cheers,
Jase


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## manticle (29/4/09)

I do both. They have a similar effect but in different ways.

Racking will leave behind a signifiant chunk of the yeast cake whereas fining will cause impurities to clump and fall out of solution (thus leaving the stuff above clearer). I still find I get less sediment after fining in secondary than fining in primary. Too much yeast in the bottle affects the flavour and I've never been a fan of vegemite (or rolling the bottle when I order a cooper's green).


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## seemax (29/4/09)

secondary + finings will produce a very clear beer, but wont necessarily improve flavour

unless clarity is important (comp, impressing in laws, etc) i never bother, i just leave ales in primary for 2weeks then bottle
rarely get much sediment in the bottle... flavour is great, clarity is average


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## manticle (29/4/09)

It's a personal thing but I notice a difference. I like the flavours yeast produce but not the taste of the sediment itself. There's not usually much sediment in the bottom of the bottle but there's a quality I prefer about the few racked beers I've done.

Of course I did also start using grains, minimashes and hops additions around the same time I started racking....................

When you're new is the time to check and see if something suits you or not.


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## Jason76 (29/4/09)

That's what I thought... 
As long as it tastes good it doesn't really matter how CLEAR the beer is right !?!

A Red Coopers sparkling ale looks pretty ordinary poured into a glass but drinks rather well....

Thinking out loud here, but always welcome others thoughts ! :beer:


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## JSGA Fan (30/4/09)

My first half decent beers where the ones I 2nd femented. Just sipping on an Amber Ale that was a kit recipe, i put it in the secondary 6 days after the primary. I tells ya its one of my favourites.


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## bowie in space (30/4/09)

I just cracked a bottle of a new batch that was left in the primary for 19 days, then bottled. I used wyeast 1056 and it is beautifully bright and clear  . I used a coopers canadian blonde kit, light dry malt extract, chinook and cascade and it tastes very much like a 3 ravens APA. I'm stoked!

It's about as clear as any gelatine fined beer i've done and tastes great. The light malt also works for the appearance, as extract brews tend to darken quite a bit.

Having said that i'm about to transfer a brew to secondary tomorrow. I intend to use finings. So i guess it's whatever floats your boat. Try a few either way and you'll work out what YOU like the most, not what other people or your homebrew book tell you. 

Cheers
Bowie


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## geoffi (30/4/09)

I used to do secondary fermentation. I don't bother much anymore. I just leave the beer alone for a few extra days, or even a week after obvious fermentation has ended. Comes out cleaner, clearer than I ever got with secondary. Of course with lagers I rack to a cube then into the fridge...but that's a different ball game.

With S04 you shouldn't have to bother with secondary anyway for clarity. It drops like a stone. One thing about it I find though is that it can have some weird flavours early on. They clear up before long, and a little longer in primary would probably help that process.


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## mauriceatron (2/5/09)

I don't do secondary fermentation any longer either unless there is some distinct advantage to it. I made this kit last year about this time of the year but I did use the kit yeast as the yeast I had intended ended up in another brew.

From my brew log, I left it in the fermenter for 2.5 weeks, no rack into secondary. Was tasting good after a month and was damn fine after 3 months. Didn't last to 4 months (even the bottles I set aside).

I'd skip the secondary. You risk too much with the risk of getting an infection, oxygenating the beer etc. Unless it's been in there for a month (like a mead which may stay in the fermenter for quite a few months) then I won't bother racking to a secondary.

Either way you go, that's a great kit, one of the best around for making as per directions.


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## flattop (3/5/09)

3 points

The twang from the yeast is caused by 2 things as far as i can tell, one is the quality of yeast, ditch kit yeast and use something like US-05 depending on the brew.
The other cause is age, beers that are too green will twang. I had some Cerveza's that i brewed last year, the lighter the beer the easier to pick off flavors, the first 15 bottled were drunk within a month of bottling and had a slight aftertaste, the last 15 were drunk about 2 months after the first and were clear and tasty, no twang....

Next point, racking stirs up sediment, yes you leave a lot of trub behind but you risk infection and it takes a week after racking to settle the brew, there are many valid reasons for racking, yeast harvesting and dry hopping for example, but kit brews finish relatively clean and shouldn't really need it.
If you want to do it then that's fine but i can say that having racked and not racked different brews i can say that my brews that stay 2 weeks in primary are just as clear as one week primary one week secondary.

Gelatin... great stuff, read the how to and use it, it's cheaper than Isinglass or finings and works just as well.

In the end brew your way, try all methods and do what works for you, i've had a couple of cloudy brews at the start and it was really due to drinking too early rather than any other factor, it's amazing what 3 months in the bottle will do for clarity....


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