# Advice Needed On Brewing A Stout For My Pop



## HKS (10/1/08)

I admit I'm not a stout drinker. Oh I know I probably don't know what I'm missing. However my Pop loves Stout. He was a Rat of Tobrook and use to drink stout all the time until Grandma whinged constantly. He turns 90 this year, still drives a car well, has his own little studio out the back of their house all setup with comfy chair, telly, a/c and a fridge. Problem is there is rarely any beer and usually its the cheapest, nastiest and usually light beer Grandma can buy.

My cousins have made him a stout before and he actually enjoyed the last one. It would of only been made with an extract, definitely not temp controlled and was probably actually pretty ordinary. I'm limited to extract or fresh worts atm, so if a stout drinker could guide me on brewing a quality stout it would be much appreciated. I certainly don't want to make him a very high ABV stout either. My goal is not to kill him too!

Cheers


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## Whistlingjack (10/1/08)

I don't think you could do better than a Cooper's stout kit.

I've made this one many times and not been disappointed. Use some malt extract instead of the recommended sugar and you can't go wrong.

WJ


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## HKS (10/1/08)

Just the regular Cooper's Stout, not the one with the old man on the can which they call Irish Stout? With the Irish Stout they say "Intended to be mixed with 500g Coopers Light Dry Malt and 300g Coopers Dextrose to 23 litres."

I will probably make a double batch, just cause I can and keep half for myself to educate the palate.

Also reading the IBU's for each are they correct? They seem very high. 710 IBU for the regular stout and 560 IBU. That's off the scale isn't it. Surely they must mean 71 and 56 IBU's which seem very bitter.

Again apologies, I'm definitely a Stout newb.


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## Whistlingjack (10/1/08)

You're right. Three figure IBU's are not real.

Go for the regular stout. Add some dark malt extract instead of sugar.

This is the best kit stout IMO...

WJ


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## Sammus (10/1/08)

HKS said:


> Just the regular Cooper's Stout, not the one with the old man on the can which they call Irish Stout? With the Irish Stout they say "Intended to be mixed with 500g Coopers Light Dry Malt and 300g Coopers Dextrose to 23 litres."
> 
> I will probably make a double batch, just cause I can and keep half for myself to educate the palate.
> 
> ...



Those IBU figures could be for the can goo itself, and once diluted they would be a lot less than that.


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## brettprevans (10/1/08)

Theres a heap of stout receipes on AHB if you search. it also depends on what level of brewing your at. 

heres a little more time consuming one. its an imperial stout. but would need a good 6 months to age in the bottle.

Heres a simple one I love
*Choc Stout Mahogony*
1 x coopers Stout, 
1 x Cascade Choc Mahag Porter, 
500g DDME, 
0.25kg Choc Malt Grain 
28g. EKG @ 60 min.
12g Fuggle @ 15 min.
22L
windsor yeast or similar
OG 1.060, FG 1.022, 5.6% (6.1% after bottling)


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## Fatgodzilla (10/1/08)

Sammus said:


> Those IBU figures could be for the can goo itself, and once diluted they would be a lot less than that.




I fell for that one myself. 710 IBU and 560IBU is for the bitterness at 1.7kg level. By the time you dilute to (say) 23litres, the IBU of the wort is no where near that level.


Edit found this 

Coopers Kits

Lager 90 EBC 390 IBU
Draught 130 EBC 420 IBU
Real Ale 230 EBC 560 IBU
Bitter 420 EBC 620 IBU
Dark Ale 550 EBC 590 IBU
Stout 1800 EBC 710 IBU
Canadian Blonde 70 EBC 420 IBU
Bavarian Lager 90 EBC 390 IBU
Mexican Cerveza 53 EBC 300 IBU
Australian Pale Ale 90 EBC 340 IBU

This is for the concentrated form in the can - to get the figure for 23litres: multiply by 1.25 and divide by 23.
To convert EBC to SRM: SRM = (EBC - 1.2)/2.65

Therefore 710 IBU in can = 710 x 1.25 divided by 23 litres = 38 IBUs.


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## vchead (10/1/08)

Good on you for looking after your old pop. 

Any stout kit would probably do, use some combo of Dark and Light malt instead of sugar and an S04 ale yeast. Some Goldings hops in there too I reckon.

Also my brewing mate reckons that for a stout you should only use half normal priming sugar in the bottle, eg, one carb drop or one teaspoon per 750ml bottle rather than 2 to keep the fizz down.

Rodders


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## drsmurto (10/1/08)

If you are into steeping grains then this is one i made during winter last year, i called it a porter but someone pointed out its more like a stout than a porter. Prob somewhere in between but i did enjoy it whatever it was called!

1 can Coopers Lager
1 kg LDME
450 g Chocolate Malt
50 g roast barley
15 g POR @ 30 mins
20 g Fuggles @ 25 mins
20 g Fuggles @ flameout
Safale S-04 - 18degC 

If anything i would increase the roast barley to 100g at least as the roastiness was subtle..... its not very strong either, probably in the 4.5% range.

Cheers
DrSmurto


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## HKS (11/1/08)

Fatgodzilla said:


> I fell for that one myself. 710 IBU and 560IBU is for the bitterness at 1.7kg level.



That makes sense.



Fatgodzilla said:


> This is for the concentrated form in the can - to get the figure for 23litres: multiply by 1.25 and divide by 23.
> To convert EBC to SRM: SRM = (EBC - 1.2)/2.65
> 
> Therefore 710 IBU in can = 710 x 1.25 divided by 23 litres = 38 IBUs.



Thanks for the formula too!



Rodders said:


> Good on you for looking after your old pop.
> 
> Any stout kit would probably do, use some combo of Dark and Light malt instead of sugar and an S04 ale yeast. Some Goldings hops in there too I reckon.
> 
> ...



He really is a top bloke, a real larriken (sp?) too, or as we would say he use to run a muck! Now I know where I get it from. He doesn't really talk about the war much, can't say I blame him but ocassionally he will come out with a story or 2. One I remember was he got all his fingers blown off on 1 hand. They took him to the army hospital (if you could call it that) a small camp on the other side of the Nile river across from Egypt. Him and his mates use to sneak out at night, strip down naked, tie their clothes to their heads and swim across the Nile to hit the beers in Egypt. Of course the Nile was vile. Dodging dead floating bodies, dead animals, live ones too, like rats, stinky full of crap river. But when you have a thirst, courtesy of the desert, I guess nothing stops you! Brings a totally new meaning to "For a real hard earned thirst, you need a big cold beer!" Then after they had a few :icon_drunk: they use to run around Egypt pulling the vales off the women's faces. The were lucky not to get stoned to death!

He's also a legend around Newcastle as he won the 1st Newcastle Cup horse race back in the 40's I think. Always gets the royal treatment anytime the races are on.


Thanks for the advice guys, some intersting recipes there. May just have to try them all!

Cheers


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## leiothrix (7/2/08)

Fatgodzilla said:


> This is for the concentrated form in the can - to get the figure for 23litres: multiply by 1.25 and divide by 23.
> 
> . . .
> 
> Therefore 710 IBU in can = 710 x 1.25 divided by 23 litres = 38 IBUs.


Why do you multiply by 1.25? Wouldn't it just be 710 / 23 = 31 IBUs ?

I'm not trying to nitpick - just curious.


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## phonos (7/2/08)

I believe it is because a 1.7kg tin of malt extract has a volume of 1.25L - the 560 IBU is per litre.


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## leiothrix (7/2/08)

Phonos said:


> I believe it is because a 1.7kg tin of malt extract has a volume of 1.25L - the 560 IBU is per litre.


You're right - I sent an email to Coopers customer support


My email said:


> How do you calculate how bitter a beer is?
> 
> I made a Coopers Bitter, which from your website says is 620 IBU. This is the bitterness of the tin yes?
> 
> ...


And got the reply:


Coopers reply said:


> G'day Robert. You're close. You also need to take into account the volume of can (1.25l) and allow 5% loss during fermentation:
> 
> (620 X 1.25)/23 X 95% = 32 IBU
> 
> Cheers, Frank.


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## Dave86 (29/7/08)

Dragging up an old thread as I'm throwing down a K&K this weekend and trying to formulate a recipe for a brown porter using coopers dark ale kit as the base. According the FAQ on their site (right at the bottom of the page) The figures for colour and bitterness are supposed to be calculated on a weight/volume dilution :huh: 

I worked out, using the method in this topic, at 22L I could expect 33.5 IBU. Using the method on their site it comes out at 45.5 IBU. Bit of a discrepancy there.

Anyone got an answer as to which method is correct?

Cheers

Dave


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## Dave86 (29/7/08)

Anyone got an opinion or experience to share?


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## Offline (29/7/08)

Always check the units of your calculation. 
It needs to be Volume (kit)/Volume (fermenter) so that their units cancel out, leaving you with IBU (kit) Multiplied by (some ratio) = IBU (fermenter).
But then coopers say you can loss 10 to 30% during fermentation so you need to multiply your answer by something in between 0.9 to 0.7


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## Dave86 (29/7/08)

I see where you're coming from, which is the way I calculated it originally, I'm not too interested in calculating volume loss, just the IBU of the wort prior to fermentation. On the coopers site however, the recommended method is to use the nominated IBU value for the kit, multiply by 1.7 (kg) and then divide by total volume.

eg: 

For the dark ale kit using the volume/volume method

1.25/22 x 590 = 35.52

For the same kit using the recommended weight/volume method

590 x 1.7 / 22 = 45.59

Hence my confusion!

The volume/volume method sounds more logical to me, but why is the information on the site saying otherwise? Also, using the recommended method puts a 23L brew of the original stout kit at about 53 IBU, which seems quite high for dry/sweet/oatmeal (whichever it might fall into) stout?


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## tdh (29/7/08)

Have done 2 can and 3 can stout brews using S0-4 and US-05, dead easy to make and Charlie loves them (senior stout enthusiast).

US-05 is better in that it's drier.

Approx. ABV for 2 can stout in 23 litres = 4.5%
Approx. ABV for 3 can stout in 23 litres = 6.8%

tdh


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## slowlearner (1/8/08)

my first and only stout (so far) was the BREWCRAFT IRISH STOUT, used a B/CRAFT #74 stout convertor, a super alpha and a fuggles hops 'tea-bag', 12ml of liquorice extract and s-04 yeast, topped off to 18ltrs. primed with half tea-spoon of sugar as mentioned by rodders, used a cooking set of measuring spoons to get the half measure consistently. came out @ 4.85%, tastes good to my in-experienced palette for a stout, next time round will try for more roasted and choc flavours tho.....


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## joshlangmaid (2/8/08)

The stout from coopers is great. But the muntons stout i'd pick any day. Its better than the coopers IMHO, but 3 times the cost too.


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