# Australian Pale Ale



## jimmythehuman (16/5/12)

Ok i am new, go easy on me. My 3rd brew. 1st was the kit lager (clear and bubbly=success). 2nd is coopers IPA/Kit Converter. 3rd is going to some variation of the below and the 4th will be dark/brown ale.

I am hoping the below will end up being an Aussie Pale Ale, i used the spreadsheet and came up with the following (also based on finding ingredients that were affordable). Is the following like to produce a nice reasonably true pale ale.

21l
Black rock Unhopped Light 1.5kg
Light Dry Malt 1.0kg
Carapils .5kg steeped/sparged

Recipe Spreadsheet says, but it seems like a lot of hops to me?
Kent Goldings 20g @ 60min
Fuggles 20g @ 60min
Kent Goldings 30g @ 20min
US05 Yeast

Appreciate any advice or suggestions


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## tiprya (16/5/12)

What sort of Australian ale are you trying to make? Similar to a coopers? If you do a search there are some good coopers clone recipes.

Australian ale is a pretty broad style, and your recipe will make a nice beer.

The hops are british varieties but will be fine for bitttering and the small amount of hop flavour you'll get from the 20 minute addition.

US05 works fine in this type of beer, but if you're adventurous, you can reculture coopers yeast from a 6 pack and get something a bit more authentic.


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## mwd (16/5/12)

If you are after an authentic Australian Pale you really need Pride of Ringwood hops as well as the Coopers yeast.

Nothing wrong with that recipe though should make a tasty English Pale Ale


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## manticle (16/5/12)

Plug the aa values into the spreadsheet and find out the ibu level. At first glance the hops look ok but it depends on the aa, final volume and boil gravity as well as your desired outcome.

Not that aussie but looks like it will work ok.


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## Fish13 (16/5/12)

From of my research lately for it be an Aussie ale. Its needs to be high og and burton style water and hops would be english variety.


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## QldKev (16/5/12)

That recipe is no Australian Pale Ale..

Try this
Halve the carapils
Piss of all the pommy hops (I love pommy hops but you want an Australian Pale Ale)
28g POR @ 60min
Harvest some CPA yeast from a bottle and grown it up.
Ferment at 16.5c

edit: Also talk to ekul, he is MR CPA and also has done extract brews.

QldKev


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## eamonnfoley (16/5/12)

Use the Coopers Australian Pale Ale kit (part of the International Series - available at Big W). including the yeast that comes with it also, unless you want to culture your own from the bottles.


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## Bribie G (16/5/12)

Culturing from the bottles is a must, to get the banana and pear esters that the style is famous for. Don't stint, Liquorland usually have 3 for $16 tall bottles which at 5.7% ABV gives you more bang for your buck than VB. 

Drink the three - :icon_drunk: carefully decant - but tip the sediment into a sterilised jar or bottle as you go. Then make up some light dried malt extract to a litre with around 100g of LDME, tip in the sediment and let it ferment - could take three days for it to really kick off and it won't necessarily get a head on it. I use a little 4L pail with tight lid that I get from cheap shops. Garage temperature is good this time of year. 

Then when it's fermented out (I normally find 4 days does it) you'll have a "slab" of yeast on the bottom - pour off the clear liquid on top, you don't want that in your brew - and use the yeast, it will go off like the clappers. If you like Banana, ferment over 20 and if you like pear, ferment below 20.

If it works out well then save the yeast cake in a PET in the fridge and you'll have yeast for next time without having to go through the bottle thing again. I find that second and third generations you really start to get the fruit esters happening.


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## DKS (16/5/12)

fish13 said:


> From of my research lately for it be an Aussie ale. Its needs to be high og and burton style water and hops would be english variety.



Burton style water... I dont follow. Could youfill me in on this fish? Are you suggesting Coopers use Burton on Trent water specs? Im going to make a sparkling soon.
Daz


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## kymba (16/5/12)

DKS said:


> Burton style water... I dont follow. Could youfill me in on this fish? Are you suggesting Coopers use Burton on Trent water specs? Im going to make a sparkling soon.
> Daz



they R/O their bore water so they could use any water profile they like

heres a pic from a few years ago of one of the ro banks, much like bribie's





and ot but just coz, here is the mash filter, much like bribie's bagucket no?


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## Fish13 (16/5/12)

From my early searchs so far and this going back to the 1830's the beer was 1.080 and had burton on trent water. Although it was export from burton itself, they called it no.3 Australian ale. The other local brewies copied the same style. But from further reading the style itself is more ipa. Considering the time taken to reach our shores. So i think maybe coopers water could be based on it but i an making an assumption.


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## jimmythehuman (16/5/12)

Bribie G said:


> Culturing from the bottles is a must, to get the banana and pear esters that the style is famous for. Don't stint, Liquorland usually have 3 for $16 tall bottles which at 5.7% ABV gives you more bang for your buck than VB.
> 
> Drink the three - :icon_drunk: carefully decant - but tip the sediment into a sterilised jar or bottle as you go. Then make up some light dried malt extract to a litre with around 100g of LDME, tip in the sediment and let it ferment - could take three days for it to really kick off and it won't necessarily get a head on it. I use a little 4L pail with tight lid that I get from cheap shops. Garage temperature is good this time of year.
> 
> ...



Shit. Today was meant to be an AFD.

OK so i have drank the coopers and preserved the bits in the bottom. I have light matl extract here. I am not sure i uderstand the difference between Light Malt Extract and LDME?

I am listeing to the other comments on beer style. I am not well versed enough to describe what i am trying to do. Does anyone know Mornington Pale Ale? That's what i want to replicate. I thought (maybe wrongley) that was an Aussie Pale ale.) drinking the coopers now, its very different...now i am confused...at least i hav beer.


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## DKS (16/5/12)

fish13 said:


> From my early searchs so far and this going back to the 1830's the beer was 1.080 and had burton on trent water. Although it was export from burton itself, they called it no.3 Australian ale. The other local brewies copied the same style. But from further reading the style itself is more ipa. Considering the time taken to reach our shores. So i think maybe coopers water could be based on it but i an making an assumption.




Naa...... I dont buy it. AFAIK very few English breweries used such hard water and for Coopers to add costly additives to their water to such a degree seems alittle askew.
I had two pale stubs on the week end and didnt pick a hint of realy hard water. You may well be right fish but it just doesnt gel with me and I cant recall ever hearing of it being suggested before. Happy to be corrected or persuaded though. Cheers.
Daz


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## manticle (16/5/12)

JimmyTheHuman said:


> . I am not sure i uderstand the difference between Light Malt Extract and LDME?



Light dried malt extract= LDME

Liquid malt extract = LME (hence the distinction with the 'D')


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## jimmythehuman (16/5/12)

He said



manticle said:


> light dried malt extract to a litre with around 100g of LDME



Did he mean use 100g to make 1 litre of LDME?


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## bignath (16/5/12)

JimmyTheHuman said:


> He said
> 
> 
> 
> Did he mean use 100g to make 1 litre of LDME?



Add 100g dry malt extract to 1lt of water.


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## DKS (16/5/12)

Big Nath said:


> Add 100g dry malt extract to 1lt of water.



From memory this comes in somewhere around 1.040? 
Can you do the same with dex or sugar?
I usually use saved wort but if stuck without would sugar work to make a starter on a stir plate.
Daz


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## manticle (16/5/12)

Better to feed yeast with malt rather that sucrose or dextrose.


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## tiprya (16/5/12)

Add the 100g of LDME to 1L of water, boil for 15 minutes, cool to room temp with something covering the opening - then swirl the yeast in the bottom of the bottles and pour them in.

Not sure how much yeast that will give you, or if you'll need to step up again (add more LDME + water) to get enough yeast to pitch.


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## jimmythehuman (17/5/12)

Thanks for the tips. I have done the yeast process and have 2 jars with the LDME and the yeast split between them (didnt have 1 good sized container).

this process has generated a lot of questions for me 

Can i do this same process with the yeast cake at the bottom of a brew in the fermenter? 
If i had dry hopped and had hops and stuff on the yeast cake would this matter or always use the muslin bag for hops when you wanna save the yeast.
How much yeast cake/slurry stuff do you use in a normal brew?
What will happen if i dont understand the yeast concentration in the cake and end up puting too much, will it just ferment quicker?
What do you people do with the yeast that comes with kits?


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## stux (17/5/12)

JimmyTheHuman said:


> Thanks for the tips. I have done the yeast process and have 2 jars with the LDME and the yeast split between them (didnt have 1 good sized container).
> 
> this process has generated a lot of questions for me
> 
> ...



Look into Rinsing Yeast : http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=55409

BUT, in all seriousness, this is a mildly advanced technique, and if you're only a few brews into your brewing career you may want to make sure that your sanitation techniques are really top notch before harvesting your possibly contaminated trub 

The reason you go through the rigamarole of growing the coopers yeast up from the bottle dregs is its basically the only way to get a hold of the right yeast to make a Coopers Pale Ale, which is the definitive Aussie Pale Ale. Or you could get Whitelabs 009.

But hey, harvesting coopers yeast is fun... and its a good excuse to buy a sixpack 

NB: harvesting yeast from bottles only works if the bottle was bottle conditioned and specifically if it was bottle conditioned with the primary strain


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## pmastello (17/5/12)

If you are trying to replicate the Mornington Pale ale, worrying about Coopers yeast is going down the wrong path. 
From this description http://www.mpbrew.com.au/Pale It states that it is an American Pale ale.
APAs almost exclusively use a clean yeast like the US05 you had originally.

Having never had the Mornington Pale ale you are trying to replicate, I can't speak with too much authority, but with the website description, I would be changing your late hops to Cascade and Amarillo. Bittering charge doesn't have to be Pride of Ringwood as everyone is saying. You could keep the EKG for bittering.


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## 1974Alby (17/5/12)

JimmyTheHuman said:


> Thanks for the tips. I have done the yeast process and have 2 jars with the LDME and the yeast split between them (didnt have 1 good sized container).
> 
> this process has generated a lot of questions for me
> 
> ...


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## Bribie G (17/5/12)

Sounds like you are on the right track with the yeast culturing - just be patient for a couple of days.


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## jimmythehuman (17/5/12)

Thanks for the of the tips, am taking it all in.

GingerBrew: I got myself confused. I have been reading so much about so many different recipes and techniques etc. I thought they had said is Australian. They have a craft brewing event there on weekend i will walk down and have a few and see if what i can learn. 

I had another go at spreadsheet. I will have a crack and see what happens Some one already said, at least i will have beer 

20l
Morgans Unhopped Pale 1.5kg
Wheat Dry Malt 1.0kg
Medium Crystal .25kg 
Wheat Malt .25kg
Dextrose .25kg

Citra 10g @ 60min (cant seem to find, whats the next best?)
Amarillo 20g @ 60min
Galaxy 10g @ 15min
US05 Yeast (any reason i cant use my coopers yeast?)


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## ekul (17/5/12)

That above recipe is starting to look a little mixed up. I'm not sure why you'd put the amarillo and citra @ 60, and then mix it with saaz. PLus the 200g of wheat malt (grain) will need mashing. And for such a small amount i can't see that it will be worth it.

For simple coopers tasting aussie ale do the following

1.5kg pale unhopped malt
1kg dry malt (use the wheat if you want, but ordinary dry malt will do)
.5kg sugar or dextrose


28g of POR flowers orpellets @ 45min

So get 3L of water, add 300g of light dry malt or a third of a tin of malt extract. Bring to the boil. Boil the pride of ringwood hops for 45mins, turn off the heat. Add the rest of your ingredients (malt and sugar). Top up to 21L in the fermenter with cold water. Tmep should be around 18C. Throw in the coopers yeast and ferment as close to 16.5 as you can.

If your yeast doesn't work for some reason when you're building it up just use US05. WOn't be the same as as coopers but will be tasty all the same.

If you want an american pale ale recipe do a search for Neills centarillo. Its a cracker of an extract recipe and was what i made most of when i was doing extract brews. Another good one is Dr smurtos golden ale, do s earch for the extract version. Don't know how the coopers yeast would go in these.


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## QldKev (18/5/12)

JimmyTheHuman said:


> Thanks for the tips. I have done the yeast process and have 2 jars with the LDME and the yeast split between them (didnt have 1 good sized container).
> 
> this process has generated a lot of questions for me
> 
> ...




Purist with their special books that give them super powers will tell me I'm wrong... I read the books too, I used to have test tubes of yeast and grow them up. I use to wash yeast from old yeast cakes to re-use... It was fun for a year or so, but it's all too much work for me. What I have been getting decent results with is 
Allow some residual beer on top of the yeast cake in the fermenter
Swirl to mix yeast cake and beer
Pour into sanitise 330ml coke bottle to store*
Leave about 330ml in the fermenter if you want to reuse it straight away.


* To store the 330ml just throw it in a fridge. When you want to use it allow it to come up to the same temp as the wort your pitching into. Pour a little of the beer off the top for a taste test. If all ok pitch the entire bottle into the wort and your done.

QldKev


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## /// (18/5/12)

Original recipe had carapils in it, unless doing a mini mash this i redundant. The malt needs to be mashed.

I also did not undertand the note about ditching UK hops for POR. POR is an EKG derivative, so is use in that wrong?

Scotty


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## QldKev (18/5/12)

/// said:


> Original recipe had carapils in it, unless doing a mini mash this i redundant. The malt needs to be mashed.
> 
> I also did not undertand the note about ditching UK hops for POR. POR is an EKG derivative, so is use in that wrong?
> 
> Scotty




I didn't know POR was from EKG, interesting.

I love both EKG and also POR and always have them on hand, but POR tastes very different to EKG. 

edit: To answer your Q, yes I think EKG is wrong in an Australian Pale Ale


QldKev


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## Smokomark (18/5/12)

QldKev said:


> Purist with their special books that give them super powers will tell me I'm wrong... I read the books too, I used to have test tubes of yeast and grow them up. I use to wash yeast from old yeast cakes to re-use... It was fun for a year or so, but it's all too much work for me. What I have been getting decent results with is
> Allow some residual beer on top of the yeast cake in the fermenter
> Swirl to mix yeast cake and beer
> Pour into sanitise 330ml coke bottle to store*
> ...



Is that amount for a single batch Kev?


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## iralosavic (18/5/12)

QldKev said:


> Purist with their special books that give them super powers will tell me I'm wrong... I read the books too, I used to have test tubes of yeast and grow them up. I use to wash yeast from old yeast cakes to re-use... It was fun for a year or so, but it's all too much work for me. What I have been getting decent results with is
> Allow some residual beer on top of the yeast cake in the fermenter
> Swirl to mix yeast cake and beer
> Pour into sanitise 330ml coke bottle to store*
> ...




What is the longest you have stored unwashed yeast this way and re-used it with no ill effect? - I have a gigantic yeast cake of s189 that I don't want to waste, but don't have the time to muck around too much.


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## QldKev (18/5/12)

smokomark said:


> Is that amount for a single batch Kev?



Good point I should have stated that. Yep pitch rate is for a standard 23L batch. 




iralosavic said:


> What is the longest you have stored unwashed yeast this way and re-used it with no ill effect? - I have a gigantic yeast cake of s189 that I don't want to waste, but don't have the time to muck around too much.



I aim for 3 months, but have had them for up to 6 months. Just do the taste test first, if the beer taste bad or like Vegemite chuck it. Also if I plan on keeping for 3+ months I fill a 600ml bottle. 


Myself and a brewer in Brisbane have even posted these bottles to each other and have no ill effects.


QldKev


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## /// (18/5/12)

QldKev said:


> I didn't know POR was from EKG, interesting.
> 
> I love both EKG and also POR and always have them on hand, but POR tastes very different to EKG.
> 
> ...



Kev, I believe a EKG root stock with a graft ontop ...


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## Bribie G (18/5/12)

"The Australian hop research station at Ringwood, near Melbourne, has recently been closed, at least partially because the variety Pride of Ringwood has been so successful. Released in 1958, it was developed at this station, which was largely supported by the brewing industry. This high-yielding, high-alpha variety is from a cross between an open-pollinated seedling of the English variety Pride of Kent and a Tasmanian male. Today it occupies nearly all of Australia's hop areas. Of the 1,055 ha of commercial Australian hop production, 43% are grown on the mainland in Victoria, primarily in the district of Myrrhea (320 ha) and in the Ovens Valley (148 ha) (25). The remaining 587 ha are grown in Tasmania, around Hobart near the southern tip of the island (362 ha), and near Scottsdale in the north (225 ha). Pride of Ringwood is also grown commercially in South Africa and in India, but the variety matures too late in the United States to be of commercial value there." 

The American Society of Brewing Chemists journal, Vol 39 no 1 around 1980.


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## RobW (18/5/12)

"The Australian hop research station at Ringwood, near Melbourne, has recently been closed"

Look at what's come out of NZ in the last few years and then wonder what might have been.


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## ekul (18/5/12)

iralosavic said:


> What is the longest you have stored unwashed yeast this way and re-used it with no ill effect? - I have a gigantic yeast cake of s189 that I don't want to waste, but don't have the time to muck around too much.



If the yeast is really old you can pour off the beer (taste it to make sure its good) and then pour the yeast down the bottom into a 2L coke bottle. Add 1.5L of wort and shake the shit out of it when ever you walk passed. After a week the yeast will settle to the bottom. Pour off the beer and then use the yeast, it will be good to go again.


I almost never need to do this, i use a small number of yeasts so they always get a rotation.


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## jimmythehuman (21/5/12)

well this thread ended up being a bit of a mix of lots of stuff, but i ahve learned a lot. I have the coppers yeast fermenting, i will try and rinse it and step it up this week and maybe use it next weekend. If not it was still good learning and i got to drink 3 coopers long necks.

I learnt that the style i was thinking wasnt coopers at all...i listened and searched and found that what i wanted was APA, or as close to Mornington Pale Ale. Good excuse to spend Sat arvo down the brewery.

I ended brewing;

20l
Coopers Light Malt Extract tin
Wheat Malt extract 1.0
Dex .25kg
Crystal Med 120 .250kg

Citra 20g 60min
Amarillo 12g 30min
Galaxy 12g 30min
us05

OG 1050 and hoping for 1010/1012
Aimed for EMC 13 and IBU 30

I am sure i have a lot to learn about hop timing and volumes and combinations, but a sneaky taste tonight and i am pretty excited. Only my 3rd brew and using the spreadsheet and hours of reading on here i think i have at least made, beer 

Thanks for the tips i cant wait! to post a pic of a poured glass


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## jimmythehuman (11/6/12)

Well. I am not sure what I was expecting, but this beer has turned out sensational and everyone i give it to reckons i bought it and peeled the labels off.

I am giving Neils Centarillo ago next and then i will have another go at this one...

Using the carb drops it takes 2.5 weeks for bubbles, using bulk prime (i only used 110g sugar in this batch) i got bulk bubbles in a week...is that typical?


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## DarkFaerytale (12/6/12)

glad your beer turned out well

the centarillo is a good beer

I don't know about typical but it can depend on ambient temperature, bulk priming rate and how long it takes for the carbonation drops to disolve. if your brew was 20 ltr's & 110g of sugar to bulk prime. thats about 2.4 volumes of C02, sounds about right to me.


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