# Yeast Of The Week- 29/09/10 - Wyeast 1469-pc



## np1962 (29/9/10)

Following Haysies thread regards a yeast sub forum I found there was not all that many Yeast of the Week threads so here goes.
With all due respect to Stuster and P&C.

Let's start with what was a very popular PC release last time around and is due for release this October, once more as a limited release.

From Wyeast



> Wyeast 1469-PC West Yorkshire Ale Yeast
> Beer Styles: Blonde Ale, English IPA, Extra Special/Strong Bitter (English Pale Ale), Oatmeal Stout, Southern English Brown, Special/Best/Premium Bitter, Standard/Ordinary Bitter, Sweet Stout
> Profile: This strain produces ales with a full chewy malt flavor and character, but finishes dry, producing famously balanced beers. Expect moderate nutty and stone-fruit esters. Best used for the production of cask-conditioned bitters, ESB and mild ales. Reliably flocculent, producing bright beer without filtration.
> 
> ...



What styles do you use it in, what styles does it just not work for?
Any tricks for how to manage it - fermentation temperatures, starter sizes, re-using it by top-cropping or using the slurry, does it need rousing or will it conk out in high gravity beers?
Are there comparable yeasts from other manufacturers?
Anything else do you like or dislike about this yeast?

Cheers
Nige


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## Bribie G (29/9/10)

A good starting point to understand this yeast is to read Samuel Smith's article on Yorkshire Stone Square brewing:

In my experience 1469 ticks all the boxes, including its habit of rising to the surface in little icebergs (yeastbergs) that look like a mass of floating popcorn. I don't know how true to breed it actually is but I generally run it at a couple of degrees below 'normal' ale yeasts, at 16-17 degrees as in a traditional stone square. 
Makes a divine TTL style beer, I haven't used it in any other styles.

To emulate the pumping and rousing, I give the wort a good beating morning and night with a :



It loves being aerated but I don't do it beyond day 3, then seal it up and don't touch it until I get that popcorn after about another 4 days, then rack off and collect the popcorn, cold crash for a week with gelatine and polyclar, then keg off. This year I might omit the racking and just finish the primary by sticking straight in fridge.


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## Dazza_devil (29/9/10)

I am planning to use this yeast in a Northern English Brown style Ale. From the Guidelines I understand that the Northern Brown Ale is considered to be drier and more hop-orientated than the Southern Brown style, nutty rather than caramel. I have something like Samuel Smith's Nut Brown Ale in mind, which I believe to be a Northern Brown. From previous advise I was going to use 1469 because this is apparently the yeast Sam Smith uses. 
Why is it then that Wyeast recommend this yeast for a Southern Brown but not for a Northern Brown? It finishes dry and it apparently gives a nutty impression from the esters which would be contrary to the guidelines.


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## Shed101 (29/9/10)

BribieG said:


> A good starting point to understand this yeast is to read Samuel Smith's article on Yorkshire Stone Square brewing:
> 
> In my experience 1469 ticks all the boxes, including its habit of rising to the surface in little icebergs (yeastbergs) that look like a mass of floating popcorn. I don't know how true to breed it actually is but I generally run it at a couple of degrees below 'normal' ale yeasts, at 16-17 degrees as in a traditional stone square.
> Makes a divine TTL style beer, I haven't used it in any other styles.
> ...



Brilliant - thanks. I have a cube of TTL with this yeast's name on it!

Incidentally, back in England Bentley's YB was my local's regular cheapie bitter ten years' ago, it tasted good enough, but i'd never realised it had a link to the original Squares.


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## Dazza_devil (29/9/10)

BribieG said:


> A good starting point to understand this yeast is to read Samuel Smith's article on Yorkshire Stone Square brewing:
> 
> In my experience 1469 ticks all the boxes, including its habit of rising to the surface in little icebergs (yeastbergs) that look like a mass of floating popcorn. I don't know how true to breed it actually is but I generally run it at a couple of degrees below 'normal' ale yeasts, at 16-17 degrees as in a traditional stone square.
> Makes a divine TTL style beer, I haven't used it in any other styles.
> ...




I think I'll try a Landlord clone instead, gotta good recipe BribieG?


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## Shed101 (29/9/10)

Boagsy said:


> I think I'll try a Landlord clone instead, gotta good recipe BribieG?



Here's the one Screwy and I did a couple of weekends ago, there's a Dr Smurto one around too I think...


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## argon (29/9/10)

Boagsy said:


> I think I'll try a Landlord clone instead, gotta good recipe BribieG?



And Here's the one I did last weekend.. still in the cubes waiting for some 1469 this weekend.

After a bitchload of research and alot of annoying more experienced brewers... RdeVjun, BribieG and DrSmurto I came to the general consensu of the 97% Golden Promise and 3% Cararoma. Hop schedule was the only thing wasn't 100% on but settled for half a pack of each (1/2 90g packs) for IBU of just under 35.

really looking forward to using this yeast for the first time...


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## Bribie G (29/9/10)

Boagsy said:


> I think I'll try a Landlord clone instead, gotta good recipe BribieG?


Yup, can't go past the good doctor's recipe, but try to get the Golden Promise malt if Ross (or other suppliers) have it in at the moment. Sam Smith would definitely use a very similar yeast, if you look at the rear label of the Nut Brown bottle there is actually a picture of the yeast being pumped and sprayed back into the square. 

Often I take American's comments about styles with a wee grain of salt, for example some of the BJCP guidelines for UK ales where then just don't seem to GET it that many UK bitters are not really very bitter at all. "Bitterness should predominate yadayada" sort of notes. I'd go for a London ale yeast for Southern Browns, that's where they were born.


Edit: if you want a similar beer to a TTL but a fair bit stronger then might I present my Superlandlord - I used Wyeast Ringwood in the DB because my 1469 had run out but happy days are here again. Also I notice that the Styrians are listed as 60 mins, ooops make that 10 mins.


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## Dazza_devil (29/9/10)

argon said:


> And Here's the one I did last weekend.. still in the cubes waiting for some 1469 this weekend.
> 
> After a bitchload of research and alot of annoying more experienced brewers... RdeVjun, BribieG and DrSmurto I came to the general consensu of the 97% Golden Promise and 3% Cararoma. Hop schedule was the only thing wasn't 100% on but settled for half a pack of each (1/2 90g packs) for IBU of just under 35.
> 
> really looking forward to using this yeast for the first time...




I'm might be different and work around a partial with MO, Brown Malt and a touch of Pale Chocoalte, perhaps.
Unless I can get the GP by the time I order.

This will be a good yeast to have in house for sure, I better get one of those BribieG beaters too.


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## Fourstar (29/9/10)

100% golden promise with a carmelisation of middle runnings say 5L down two 500ml and add it back to the main boil.

Use the Dr's hopping schedule and you're in business. After making and tastng the smurto recipe compared to a genuine landlord i think that it just doesnt match as a clone. It is however a great recipe.


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## Shed101 (29/9/10)

Fourstar said:


> compared to a genuine landlord i think that it just doesnt match as a clone. It is however a great recipe.



Not being critical, but are you comparing to bottled or cask TTL? 

I'm sure he was trying to hit the cask. And having had a fair bit of cask (and a lot less bottles) i'd say there's a pretty big difference. I don't get the same caramel flavours that most UK beers seem to inherit on their way to Oz in bottles... I guess the aeration out of handpumps makes a fair difference, too.


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## raven19 (29/9/10)

I find this is another good yeast to top crop.

Have used it in a number of beers, and i keep some on slants so the 'limited release' does not effect me if I wish to use it.

Never had issues with off flavours with well handled versions of the yeast, but it can take over any headspace in the fermentor if not temperature controlled.... even then it can still fill airlocks and blow off tubes.


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## WarmBeer (29/9/10)

BribieG said:


> A good starting point to understand this yeast is to read Samuel Smith's article on Yorkshire Stone Square brewing:
> 
> In my experience 1469 ticks all the boxes, including its habit of rising to the surface in little icebergs (yeastbergs) that look like a mass of floating popcorn. I don't know how true to breed it actually is but I generally run it at a couple of degrees below 'normal' ale yeasts, at 16-17 degrees as in a traditional stone square.
> Makes a divine TTL style beer, I haven't used it in any other styles.
> ...


So, would people consider this a "high maintenance" yeast?

I'm not at all keen on opening up my fermenter twice a day to rouse the yeast. Once I pitch, it's "into the fermenting fridge" and forget about it for 2 weeks.

Other than that, I'm keen to try this yeast out, just waiting on G&G getting it in...


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## beerbrewer76543 (29/9/10)

I had one batch go to sleep at 1.020 and had to shake the fermenter up a bit a couple of times to get it to drop lower

Anyone else had similar experiences?

Maybe I didn't aerate the wort enough to start with... :huh:


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## raven19 (29/9/10)

WarmBeer said:


> So, would people consider this a "high maintenance" yeast?



Not at all, imo. Bribie has his methods as stated above which are fine and dandy, but I have not had any issues with stalled ferments with this yeast, simply pitching yeast slurry into the fermentor, then emptying a nochill cube of wort onto that yeast with the accompanying splashing that occurs.

Seal up and leave for a week or so (unless I need to top crop some of the yeast).


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## Bribie G (29/9/10)

Like anything in brewing, you can go the basic middle of the road approach (simple infusion vs stepped mash, salts additions vs just plain old water etc) and will still end up with a fine drop. I do the thrashing etc to fine tune the beer 'to style' but as long as you aerate the wort well to start with, I've heard lots of people just running it sealed up and producing an acceptable beer with no problems.


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## jbirbeck (29/9/10)

massively overused and misunderstood yeast IMHO. 

Don't get me wrong, I like it it works well leaving a full malty flavour but finishes dry. superb. But having tasted a number of beers using this yeast people have got to realise it needs to be fermented on the cool side, even sub 18, or all you'll get is stonefruit type esters. I don't mind a bit of peach but I don't expect to smell nothing but peach in a mild for example...go easy on the esters and its brilliant.


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## DUANNE (29/9/10)

i agree with the above ,i stopped uing this yeast because of that peach type ester it can get.i was getting it fermenting at 17. it is a good yeast but the ester thing just seems to stand out after using it a few times.


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## Bribie G (29/9/10)

Exactly. Because it's a special release, many brewers reckon it's some sort of galactic silver bullet that is only released every two years because, being the holy grail of all brewing then a more frequent release would render all other yeasts irrelevant.

Not so, as I said in post #2 it's a representative of a class of yeast that evolved in response to a very narrow brewing technique, the stone square, and in using it I (anectdotally) have studied up on the history of the thing and try to replicate its preferred mode of operation. A bit like buying a puppy such as a Weimashitzu, it will have certain upbringing requirements "likes chasing sticks but not too good with children" so if you have kids, better to buy a lab or something more appropriate. 

I wouldn't use it for a Belgian Wit but sure as hell use it for a TTL.


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## RdeVjun (29/9/10)

This is my house strain, 80% of my beer is brewed with it, but not much more to add that hasn't already been covered. Never had a batch fail to fully attenuate, in fact hyperattenuation seems more likely unless particular care is taken not to mash too low in search of the dry profile (guilty you honour!), but it is still reasonably forgiving like that regardless of how low it finishes. I don't mind the stonefruit as a complement to late Styrian, I think they go well together, however it can dominate at higher ferment temps along with a couple of other mildly unpleasant flavours, 17- 18 seems about right for mine. The malty but dry profile really appeals to me, but I've not made a mild with it that I was reasonably satisfied with, but mostly I do ESBs. Speedy top cropper, can also pitch and forget for a fortnight and that suits me down to the ground, no real diacetyl problem either. Enjoy!

Edit: I tried to English Nanny (i.e. aerate- give it a good thrashing at least every day!  ) a la BribieG but sadly poor planning and laziness got the better of me... :unsure:


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## LLoyd (29/9/10)

BribieG said:


> Like anything in brewing, you can go the basic middle of the road approach (simple infusion vs stepped mash, salts additions vs just plain old water etc) and will still end up with a fine drop. I do the thrashing etc to fine tune the beer 'to style' but as long as you aerate the wort well to start with, I've heard lots of people just running it sealed up and producing an acceptable beer with no problems.



Same as most english yeasts. Aerate lots. Once they're off they aint stoppin! If they're stalling on you you either haven't pitched enough or aerated enough. I do both so I can comfortably leave 'em the f*&% alone.
Lloydie


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## mika (29/9/10)

What would you use as a Sub ? Given that it's a limited release and not everyone's got their own slant library. Thought I'd read somewhere BribieG mentioning the Wood Ale yeast from ProCulture was pretty similar ?


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## Wolfy (29/9/10)

mika said:


> What would you use as a Sub ? Given that it's a limited release and not everyone's got their own slant library. Thought I'd read somewhere BribieG mentioning the Wood Ale yeast from ProCulture was pretty similar ?


Yep Proculture-103 - once they fix the bottle-cap issue it should be available year-round.
I've not actually used Wy1469, but I have used Pro103 (Wood Ale) which is apparently a very similar yeast.
Aerate it well at the start and use a decent sized stir-plate-grown starter and have never had any issues or needed to rouse it.


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## jbirbeck (30/9/10)

mika said:


> What would you use as a Sub ? Given that it's a limited release and not everyone's got their own slant library. Thought I'd read somewhere BribieG mentioning the Wood Ale yeast from ProCulture was pretty similar ?



if you can't get the proculture I'd use 1187. less stonefruit but great yeast. I'm sure Whitelabs have a yorkshire yeast as well but I've not used it.


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## Fourstar (1/10/10)

Shed101 said:


> Not being critical, but are you comparing to bottled or cask TTL?
> 
> I'm sure he was trying to hit the cask. And having had a fair bit of cask (and a lot less bottles) i'd say there's a pretty big difference. I don't get the same caramel flavours that most UK beers seem to inherit on their way to Oz in bottles... I guess the aeration out of handpumps makes a fair difference, too.



Bottle and all the reading ive been doing on said beer. The carmel flavour you are getting from imports is oxidation. Nothing more. its a pretty muted beer considering its all base malte and the kettle caramelisation gives more mothfeel and sweetness if anything, not big toffee flavours like you get from oxidation.

I also have my doubts about TT using munich in their beer. This is a good recipe, but not a TTL.

All i know is using 100% GP with some kettle caramelisation and the correct yeast* will give you a close to perfect TTL in bottle form. As for the hand pump, i cannot comment. What i do know is carbonation and temperature do play a BIG part in flavour perception so the recipe may be the same, just different OG/ABV. 

I made mine with 1968, it was very similiar just lacking the fruits of 1469.


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## under (5/10/10)

Did this already sellout at CB??


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## argon (5/10/10)

under said:


> Did this already sellout at CB??




Don't think so... i think the release date from WYeast is October 1st... not the date that Ross will have it.

Not sure when they'll have it... but i'd say within the month. Worth a call i reckon.


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## Shed101 (5/10/10)

It's in ... get it while it's hot ... I mean cold.


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## Bribie G (5/10/10)

Now in stock at CB


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## under (5/10/10)

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


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## Scruffy (5/10/10)

Don't panic! ...it's available through 'till December...










my arse...


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## Bribie G (5/10/10)

h34r: h34r: And far later than that once the proculture lads have had their way with it h34r: h34r:


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## argon (6/10/10)

Scruffy said:


> Don't panic! ...it's available through 'till December...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Picked up some this afternoon... should still be plenty left... now i have to learn how to make slants... or preferably top croft for infinity


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## Ross (6/10/10)

argon said:


> Picked up some this afternoon... should still be plenty left... now i have to learn how to make slants... or preferably top croft for infinity




No there's not.....Sold out - 50 packets gone in under 48 hours  .

We'll have more next week & I'm sure it will be readily available at most good stores over the next few months. 


cheers Ross


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## brendo (6/10/10)

Ross said:


> No there's not.....Sold out - 50 packets gone in under 48 hours  .
> 
> We'll have more next week & I'm sure it will be readily available at most good stores over the next few months.
> 
> ...



Glad I got my order in yesterday morning!!


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## argon (6/10/10)

Ross said:


> No there's not.....Sold out - 50 packets gone in under 48 hours  .
> 
> We'll have more next week & I'm sure it will be readily available at most good stores over the next few months.
> 
> ...




Wow... must have just about got the last one... thanks for the beer too Ross.

Gotta get my low alc beers up to par now


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## Dazza_devil (8/10/10)

Mine's safe and sound in my fridge, arrived today beautifully packaged, thanks Josh and Ross.
Still very cold and the ice packs remained partially frozen after travelling from one end of the country to the other.
Now to get a nice big pot to try my first partial with it, a Dr Smurto's Landlord of sorts.


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## Effect (8/10/10)

Going to grab 2 smack packs of this one! Got plans to crank out some english bitters - probably won't have to use the second smack pack for some time since it is a great top cropper.


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## winkle (8/10/10)

Ross said:


> No there's not.....Sold out - 50 packets gone in under 48 hours  .
> 
> We'll have more next week & I'm sure it will be readily available at most good stores over the next few months.
> 
> ...




Feck, I was gonna get some on Saturday :blink: 
No problem, since I wasn't planning on using it soon.


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## RdeVjun (8/10/10)

Yeah, its a great top cropper Phillip, shouldn\'t disappoint! :beerbang: 

My pair of packs are just chilling for a bit (many thanks, supplier! :icon_cheers: ), I already had it as slants (many thanks, supplier! :beer: ) but I thought I may as well get fresh seedstock, so I\'ll do up a great heap of fresh slants when I smack one, can\'t have too many slants. I just don\'t know when I\'ll get a chance to try those UK slants from BrewLabs... :huh:

Edit: Winkle, feel free to let me know if you can\'t source, more than happy to provide!


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## praxis178 (8/10/10)

Mine arrived this morning, still nice and cool and is now in my yeast fridge awaiting my next brew day. 

:icon_offtopic: I'm stepping up one of the Brewlab yeasts ATM (4008-Tyneside I) for inoculation tomorrow, can't wait to see how it performs.


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## Jaissy (8/10/10)

Hello Friends I agree with the above post and the points that you people discuss is fantastic.Thanks.


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## donburke (8/10/10)

i can hear an orchestra of popping smack packs all round the nation as the masses prepare for their weekend brews,

think of the old chip ad ... 'the daintiest way to stuff your face'


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## Shed101 (10/10/10)

donburke said:


> i can hear an orchestra of popping smack packs all round the nation as the masses prepare for their weekend brews,
> 
> think of the old chip ad ... 'the daintiest way to stuff your face'



Well mine's been down for 24 hours, and it's in danger of pushing the bloody fridge door open at 17C! I reckon it's expanding foam, not yeast!


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## Dazza_devil (10/10/10)

Shed101 said:


> Well mine's been down for 24 hours, and it's in danger of pushing the bloody fridge door open at 17C! I reckon it's expanding foam, not yeast!




Thanks for the tip, I'll have a blow-off tube at th ready when I get mine in.

Did you build up a starter or just pitch the smacked pack?


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## Shed101 (10/10/10)

smacked it, left overnight, pitched and dropped the wort onto it.


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## Dazza_devil (10/10/10)

Shed101 said:


> smacked it, left overnight, pitched and dropped the wort onto it.




I usually build up a big starter from the smack-pack and take some samples before I build the batch starter up for pitching but I'm feelin lazy and impatient.

Do you top crop it?


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## Shed101 (10/10/10)

"Do you top crop it? "

I have been doing


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## Dazza_devil (10/10/10)

Shed101 said:


> "Do you top crop it? "
> 
> I have been doing




I might look into this instead.
How long do you samples remain viable?


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## praxis178 (10/10/10)

Boagsy said:


> I might look into this instead.
> How long do you samples remain viable?



If you store them in sterile water one-two years (takes longer to get started the older the sample), but I usually re-culture and take a new reference sample every 9-12months. I think slants last longer, but that's just a gut feel, than slurry/water samples....


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## Dazza_devil (10/10/10)

Thomas J. said:


> If you store them in sterile water one-two years (takes longer to get started the older the sample), but I usually re-culture and take a new reference sample every 9-12months. I think slants last longer, but that's just a gut feel, than slurry/water samples....




Sounds the go.
I'll only need one sample and take another each time I use it. I'll have some in the bottom of my bottles if all else fails.
When using the cropped sample in the next batch, just pitch it straight in or make a starter?


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## manticle (10/10/10)

I always make a starter with any re-used yeast, including top cropped.

1 - to make sure it's still viable.
2. To make sure there's no infection
3. To pitch active yeast.

The only time I've pitched top cropped yeast directly is inocculating a batch directly from a currently fermenting one (so scoop from one fermenter straight into another)


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## Dazza_devil (10/10/10)

manticle said:


> I always make a starter with any re-used yeast, including top cropped.
> 
> 1 - to make sure it's still viable.
> 2. To make sure there's no infection
> ...




Sounds logical.
I guess with half a tallie of top-crop you wouldn't need to step it up, just make it to size straight up?


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## Shed101 (13/10/10)

So, here's a top-cropping question:

I've been madly skimming, top-cropping and beating the wort twice a day for 3 or 4 days ... the foam keeps coming back.

For the health of the wort (or more correctly gyle) I presume it would be best if I stop while i'm still getting a good protective foam covering ... or should I just keep going until it's gone for good?


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## jbirbeck (13/10/10)

Shed101 said:


> So, here's a top-cropping question:
> 
> I've been madly skimming, top-cropping and beating the wort twice a day for 3 or 4 days ... the foam keeps coming back.
> 
> For the health of the wort (or more correctly gyle) I presume it would be best if I stop while i'm still getting a good protective foam covering ... or should I just keep going until it's gone for good?



My view. keep going until you no longer have room for any more top cropped yeast in storage...It won't matter if there is foam or just Co2 sitting on top if a big or small drop of something foul drops into the beer it will go straight through both.


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## RdeVjun (13/10/10)

Shed, I'd stop beating it now, else it may just oxidise it. Its fine initially, but as fermentation progresses it just isn't necessary.

I'd take enough yeast to culture a batch or maybe a couple, no more. Top crop off the next batch and so on, that's how I operate, cascading like.

Yep, there you go, two brewers- two entirely different opinions! :icon_cheers:


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## Shed101 (13/10/10)

RdeVjun said:


> Yep, there you go, two brewers- two entirely different opinions! :icon_cheers:



Excellent - i'll do both! :lol: 

Tbh, i've got shedloads now so it may be a good idea to stop.


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## Dazza_devil (15/10/10)

I ended up making a 2 litre starter from my smackpack and I'll be saving a couple of samples for future brews.
I'm surprised at how flocculant this yeast is and the clarity of the beer in my starter. The aroma coming from my starter is also very nice, pleasantly fruity. Looking forward to drinking a beer made from this beauty.


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## Fourstar (15/10/10)

ive got my first attempt with this yeast on the stirplate as of yesterday. The slant startup took 6-8 hours and leaked all over my benchtop whilst is was at work. atleast it wasnt grenade and exploded.

The starter looks a little sad thismonring after 12 hours~ on the plate which is strange aftre its wild activity in the vial. Knowing this yeast, i'll get home and its crawed out and all over the kitchen floor.

The plans for it so far are:

EPA
EIPA
ESB
Kentucky Common

:icon_cheers:


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## itmechanic (15/10/10)

Would anyone be willing to part with a sample of this yeast? I missed out again!

Not bothered by which form its in, and im more than happy to cover and costs and postage.

Cheers,
Paul


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## Dazza_devil (15/10/10)

itmechanic said:


> Would anyone be willing to part with a sample of this yeast? I missed out again!
> 
> Not bothered by which form its in, and im more than happy to cover and costs and postage.
> 
> ...




I think it's going to be available for a little while yet mate.
I reckon CraftBrewer will be gettting some more in. Not sure but I think they have sold two lots out already.


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## Dazza_devil (25/10/10)

Shed101 said:


> Well mine's been down for 24 hours, and it's in danger of pushing the bloody fridge door open at 17C! I reckon it's expanding foam, not yeast!




I'm just not getting the expanding foam thing happening with this yeast.
I pitch a healthy, active and well aerated 1litre or so starter late Saturday afternoon and set her to ferment at 18 degrees C. After 24 hours all I had was a pathetic little 1.5 cm krausen.
I gave it a beating with the spoon last night but still a 1cm mingy lookin krausen this morning and whimpy fermentation.
Would under-aeration cause this? My new spoon wasn't up to the job as I expected.
I'm gonna give it another beating this morning but I think I must be doing something wrong somewhere along the line.


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## RdeVjun (25/10/10)

What are the SG numbers Boagsy? So OG and current SG. 

Could be underpitched, that would be my first guess, but I've pitched 1L starters before without too much hassle. Does sound a bit slack but perhaps it will go beserk any minute.


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## argon (25/10/10)

RdeVjun said:


> What are the SG numbers Boagsy? So OG and current SG.
> 
> Could be underpitched, that would be my first guess, but I've pitched 1L starters before without too much hassle. Does sound a bit slack but perhaps it will go beserk any minute.




Timely....

Took a photo this morning of my starter... going to pitch later on today. Stepped it up over the past week from a generously donated slant  . Decanted and threw another 1L of 1040 in there to kick it off. Pitched last night at 8pm after a heap of shaking, just let it sit in the kitchen overnight. Went to bed at 11pm and there was already activity... this morning it's going great guns.




Boagsy i reckon it'll fire off soon enough... when it does it you'll know about it.


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## Fourstar (25/10/10)

RdeVjun said:


> What are the SG numbers Boagsy? So OG and current SG.
> 
> Could be underpitched, that would be my first guess, but I've pitched 1L starters before without too much hassle. Does sound a bit slack but perhaps it will go beserk any minute.



mine are sitting at a mild 19deg and are only pushing a fluffy and creamy yeasty 2 inch krausen. nothing explosive like 3068 but its definitley chewing through.


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## Dazza_devil (25/10/10)

RdeVjun said:


> What are the SG numbers Boagsy? So OG and current SG.
> 
> Could be underpitched, that would be my first guess, but I've pitched 1L starters before without too much hassle. Does sound a bit slack but perhaps it will go beserk any minute.




OG was around 1.043 and I haven't taken a current SG as yet. 
Perhaps I did underpitch. I took 2X330ml samples from a swirled-up 2 litre starter made up from the smack pack. After C'C'ing and decanting the beer off what was left of the starter I fed it with a litre of batch wort and pitched it when it was active.
It's definitely fermenting but it just hasn't taken off like I was expecting and even looked to be slowing if the airlock bubble rate was anything to go by(I know). There is active bubbling in the krausen and it frothed up quite a bit when I beat it last night. 
I'm half expecting it to go beserk any minute, perhaps beating it diminishes krausen potential.


----------



## Shed101 (25/10/10)

I just chucked the whole swollen packet into 25 litres of 1042 wort and beat it like it had wronged me badly, but I loved it too much to really hurt it (yes, still talking about yeast).

Kept it up morning and night for three days (yes, still talking about yeast).

Only got 67% attenuation out of it though.


----------



## argon (25/10/10)

Boagsy said:


> It's definitely fermenting but it just hasn't taken off like I was expecting and even looked to be slowing if the airlock bubble rate was anything to go by(I know). There is active bubbling in the krausen and it frothed up quite a bit when I beat it last night.
> I'm half expecting it to go beserk any minute, perhaps beating it diminishes krausen potential.






Shed101 said:


> I just chucked the whole swollen packet into 25 litres of 1042 wort...
> Only got 67% attenuation out of it though.




Based on the activity i'm seeing (good strong activity) and the reports you guys are giving (underwhelming performance) I'm wondering if it's the latest release of 1469?? That is, considering i'm using a re-cultured slant and I assume you're both using the latest release??


----------



## Dazza_devil (25/10/10)

argon said:


> Based on the activity i'm seeing (good strong activity) and the reports you guys are giving (underwhelming performance) I'm wondering if it's the latest release of 1469?? That is, considering i'm using a re-cultured slant and I assume you're both using the latest release??




Yes, fresh as a daisy.


----------



## argon (25/10/10)

Boagsy said:


> Yes, fresh as a daisy.



Well that's an interesting comparison then. I have another slant and a fresh pack which i plan to keep for a long time, hopefully make slants out of it. But it'll be interesting to compare the 2, whenever i get round to it.


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## Dazza_devil (25/10/10)

RdeVjun said:


> What are the SG numbers Boagsy? So OG and current SG.
> 
> Could be underpitched, that would be my first guess, but I've pitched 1L starters before without too much hassle. Does sound a bit slack but perhaps it will go beserk any minute.




Looks like it has the job half done under two days from pitching. Took a sample before I beat the daylights out of it and got a tad over 1.020. I don't think I'll lay a finger on it again though and hope I haven't overdone it too far into fermentation.
The thing is, the sample smells like heaven, still sweet but one of the most delicious samples that's ever come from my fermenter. :icon_drool2: I threw 30g of Styrians Goldings pellets into the pot at flameout and left them there.


----------



## Dazza_devil (25/10/10)

Boagsy said:


> Looks like it has the job half done under two days from pitching.


What am I thinkin, it's 2/3rds of the way done after less than 2 days. Obviously fermentation is progressing without obvious signs of vigour or a huge krausen for some reason. What could supress the krausen, anything from the trub?


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## Dazza_devil (25/10/10)

Sorry about the running commentary but I just thought I would add that there is a good 2 inches of krausen sitting on the wort now. Perhaps I was just down a little in numbers at pitching, could of been the result of a dodgy thermometer, under-aeration of the wort or who knows.


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## beerbrewer76543 (25/10/10)

From what I have gathered this yeast likes very good aeration and lots of rousing or it can under attenuate or stall


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## Dazza_devil (25/10/10)

Fourstar said:


> mine are sitting at a mild 19deg and are only pushing a fluffy and creamy yeasty 2 inch krausen. nothing explosive like 3068 but its definitley chewing through.



Did you beat it?



L_Bomb said:


> From what I have gathered this yeast likes very good aeration and lots of rousing or it can under attenuate or stall




Didn't work for Shed101.

My hydro sample has fermented out to 1.016 sitting on the bench all arvo.
I'm not sure I should give mine another beating if the main batch is that far through fermentation, even though it is only 2 days after pitching.


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## big78sam (25/10/10)

Boagsy said:


> I think it's going to be available for a little while yet mate.
> I reckon CraftBrewer will be gettting some more in. Not sure but I think they have sold two lots out already.




G&G had run out but John confirmed they'll be ordering more. He took my details and they are going to give me a call when it comes in so if anyone wants one they can probably do the same


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## Dazza_devil (26/10/10)

How far through fermentation AFA SG goes would anyone recommend beating this lazy yeast?
I would of liked this beer to finish a couple of points below 1.014 at least but given Shed101's 67% attenuation experience and the look of things here, it's not gonna happen.


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## Shed101 (26/10/10)

I stopped on day 3 or 4 on the advice of much wiser authorities (Screwy and BribieG).

The Wyeast figures are 67 - 71% so 1012-1014. 

I'm happy with 1014 - it's a northern beer after all, so i'd expect something a little heavier and it's a perfect match ABV-wise for the cask ale at 4.3% (the bottled stuff is 4.1%).


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## Dazza_devil (26/10/10)

Shed101 said:


> I stopped on day 3 or 4 on the advice of much wiser authorities (Screwy and BribieG).
> 
> The Wyeast figures are 67 - 71% so 1012-1014.
> 
> I'm happy with 1014 - it's a northern beer after all, so i'd expect something a little heavier and it's a perfect match ABV-wise for the cask ale at 4.3% (the bottled stuff is 4.1%).




Sounds Ok Shed.
Did you take any SG readings on day 3 or 4?
I might try racking if mine is still above 1.014 in a couple of days, beating with 2 or 3 points to go may not be wise.


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## Shed101 (26/10/10)

Yes, can't remember what they were, but it didn't look like much was happening even though it was finishing off nicely.

I gave it 10 days all up.


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## RdeVjun (26/10/10)

Briefly as I have to fly, I'm surprised you're having attenuation issues with 1469, I've never had any at all and it is by far the most common strain I use. More often than not hyperattenuation is an issue, I only very occasionally beat the wort when I can be arsed, never rouse, never gets stuck, but I invariably mash fairly low too (<66C, usually around 64). So I'm at a loss... :huh:


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## argon (26/10/10)

RdeVjun said:


> Briefly as I have to fly, I'm surprised you're having attenuation issues with 1469, I've never had any at all and it is by far the most common strain I use. More often than not hyperattenuation is an issue, I only very occasionally beat the wort when I can be arsed, never rouse, never gets stuck, but I invariably mash fairly low too (<66C, usually around 64). So I'm at a loss... :huh:




Ralph... maybe that's the issue i touched on before. You're using the "original" 1469, the same sample you generously gave me (which is kicking off nicely with a 2 inch krausen this morning). Whereas, Boagsy and Shed101 are using the 2010 1469. 

Original 1469 = good clear activity and appropriate attenuation
2010 1469 = low visible activity and lower attenuation


just a thought.. who knows??


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## Shed101 (26/10/10)

argon said:


> Ralph... maybe that's the issue i touched on before. You're using the "original" 1469, the same sample you generously gave me (which is kicking off nicely with a 2 inch krausen this morning). Whereas, Boagsy and Shed101 are using the 2010 1469.
> 
> Original 1469 = good clear activity and appropriate attenuation
> 2010 1469 = *low visible activity* and lower attenuation
> ...



But mine had crap loads of Krausen!

And it was extremely well aerated - yeast in first, wort cascaded out of a cube from 3 feet ... of course we're all using different worts and possibly different temps, too.


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## argon (26/10/10)

Shed101 said:


> But mine had crap loads of Krausen!
> 
> And it was extremely well aerated - yeast in first, wort cascaded out of a cube from 3 feet ... of course we're all using different worts and possibly different temps, too.




Good to hear... too many variables i guess to pinpoint anything i guess. 

Just my paranoia kicking in... i soooo want this Landlord to come out well :icon_drool2:


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## Dazza_devil (26/10/10)

Mine is in a partial which had 2.6kg Golden Promise, a bit of Brown Malt and a pinch of Dark Crystal all mashed at 65-66 degrees C with a bit over a kilo of LDME to make up the numbers. Perhaps the kilo of dried malt could give me a higher FG than an AG recipe. Anyway it's only day 3 so we'll see how it all ends. Maybe too early to judge the yeast at this stage and only from a couple of examples of it's use.


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## RdeVjun (26/10/10)

Yeah, could be a bit early to jump to any firm conclusions, but interesting to note nevertheless. Like I say though, I've never had any lower than expected attenuation issues after about 40 batches (all daughters of one original slant) rather the opposite, but who knows maybe my reference thermometer reads low, maybe my seedstock is infected... with something delicious!  
Boagsy, the extract could be the reason as its a bit of an unknown quantity, but it is only early and see how it goes in the coming days and it may creep down. To be honest, usually I don't even touch mine after pitching for at least a week, I can pitch and forget without as much as a single thought about it, then check the SG a fortnight later just before bottling. Unless it makes a mess that is, can be a bit of a grubby bugger at times... :angry: 
I've got a few packs of the 2010 release, I'll smack one soon and slant it, but identify it relative to my existing stocks and see how it unfolds. :icon_cheers:


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## Dazza_devil (26/10/10)

My hydro sample that I took yesterday has dropped to 1.013, still sitting on the bench. Perhaps there are other yeasties helping it out by now though. 
Looks as though the yeast is starting to drop out in the main batch and things appear to have come to a stand still. 
I bumped the temp up a couple of degrees to 20 and I'll see if the SG does creep down after a couple of days. I'm fairly confident this is gonna be a rippa of a beer, perhaps worthy of the extra effort. 
It will be interesting to see other's results with this release.


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## bullsneck (26/10/10)

So far I have 74% attenuation, with a thick krausen floating above. Exceeding expectations!


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## Scruffy (27/10/10)

bullsneck said:


> So far I have 74% attenuation, with a thick krausen floating above. Exceeding expectations!


You also live in Melbourne.
The under attenuating 1479 seems to live elsewhere, like where there's been a truck load of rain recently, this would change the water composition (certainly in Brissie - i've had a couple of pH issues...)
Did you check your water?


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## argon (27/10/10)

Just for experiment's sake and because i do double batches split into 2 cubes. I pitched a fresh smack pack into the second half of the batch of TTLL this morning 

So now i have 20L of 1050 on 1469 started from a slant and 20L of 1050 on 1469 started from a fresh smack pack. Both sitting in the fridge at 17.5C. Will let it sit like that for a few more days then raise to 18-19C until terminal gravity, crash chill etc etc.

Activity looks pretty good on the slant 1469;






Obviously nothing yet on the fresh pack (only pitched about 90 mins ago). Will take some photos tonight.


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## Shed101 (27/10/10)

argon said:


> Just for experiment's sake and because i do double batches split into 2 cubes. I pitched a fresh smack pack into the second half of the batch of TTLL this morning
> 
> So now i have 20L of 1050 on 1469 started from a slant and 20L of 1050 on 1469 started from a fresh smack pack. Both sitting in the fridge at 17.5C. Will let it sit like that for a few more days then raise to 18-19C until terminal gravity, crash chill etc etc.
> 
> ...



Should be interesting ... although 1050's pretty high for Landlord - perhaps you should call it Grandlord! :icon_cheers:


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## argon (27/10/10)

Shed101 said:


> Should be interesting ... although 1050's pretty high for Landlord - perhaps you should call it Grandlord! :icon_cheers:



yeah i know... 1050 is a spot higher than anticipated. Was my 3rd batch on the new system, so i planned for 75% and ended up getting 79%... all good though, still should be :icon_drool2: 

smelled so good out of the cubes i was tempted to take a swig


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## Scruffy (27/10/10)

Thar she blows!

Golden Promise, touch of Crystal, Aurora, Styrian and Fuggles (and more Styrian)... and 1469


Eye lad, Grandlord? maybe at 1.059 - but he is fat and alcoholic, does that count?




I should add - This is after 24Hrs...

Smell - promising (golden...!); taste - tastes like 24hr old wort with 1469 fizzing through... fantastic.


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## Bribie G (27/10/10)

I make a superlandlord, life's too short to drink sub 5% beers (well in my case it's getting shorter by the day although I'm not into the home straight for a while yet  )
In Yorkshire they would typically give the beer two sabbaths before running off into the cask.


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## Shed101 (27/10/10)

BribieG said:


> in my case it's getting shorter by the day



I'm assuming you mean your life and not the other :lol: ... in which case we all need to drink >5% beers!


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## Dazza_devil (27/10/10)

Scruffy said:


> Thar she blows!
> 
> Golden Promise, touch of Crystal, Aurora, Styrian and Fuggles (and more Styrian)... and 1469
> 
> ...



Current release of 1469?


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## Scruffy (27/10/10)

Boagsy said:


> Current release of 1469?



14th Oct 2010.

Pretty current!


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## Dazza_devil (27/10/10)

Scruffy said:


> 14th Oct 2010.
> 
> Pretty current!
> 
> View attachment 41704




Hmmm.. and you pitched the smack-pack or a starter from it?


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## Scruffy (27/10/10)

I'm rubbish at this aren't I...

It's new 1469. I smacked the smack pack, let it swell whilst mashing - it was a four hour mash with a decoction... bunged it in a litre jug of some of the wort I'd just mashed (@24C). Four hours (and a 90m boil) later, it was pitched (into 26l of 1.059 @~22C). Already a 2cm krausen in the jug, and layer of yeast pushing the trub down.
The wort also contains yeast nutrient (normal recomended amount) and splashing to airate whilst transferring to fermenter.

The picture above was taken just a gnats under 24hrs. I've cleaned up three similar enthusiastic ejeculations since...


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## Dazza_devil (28/10/10)

Scruffy said:


> I'm rubbish at this aren't I...
> 
> It's new 1469. I smacked the smack pack, let it swell whilst mashing - it was a four hour mash with a decoction... bunged it in a litre jug of some of the wort I'd just mashed (@24C). Four hours (and a 90m boil) later, it was pitched (into 26l of 1.059 @~22C). Already a 2cm krausen in the jug, and layer of yeast pushing the trub down.
> The wort also contains yeast nutrient (normal recomended amount) and splashing to airate whilst transferring to fermenter.
> ...




No worries, thanks Scruffy.
After reading your detail I think my problems lie with aeration and intitial cell count.
One way to find out, I'll do an EIPA with it next and make up a 3 litre starter, pitching it into a well aerated wort when active.
I take it you didn't beat it, considering it may have bitten your arm off if you tried.


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## Scruffy (28/10/10)

Me and the yorkshire ripper (haven't got to 'in hindsight' with that phrase) should get our own blog!
I've cleaned the cage out again this morning (it's spat out about 1.5 litres so far!), 1.059...1.030 in 2 days...!
Wasn't overconscious with the airating nor building a bionic starter (bionic as in $6m dollar man...), more of a gentle nudge... the yeast just kind of got on with it.
Hydro sample taste @ 19C, subdued malts, subdued bitterness, nothing defining, just yeasty - there's alcohol in it - but that nice gentle afterglow... probably needs dry hop - but no way ready yet!
More to follow...


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## argon (28/10/10)

Both of my batches are happily sitting side by side at 17.5C.

The slant batch has still hot a 2-3 inch krausen... alot of white bubbly head to it. The gladwrap is slight bulging.

The fresh pack version, being a day younger, has a 2 inch krausen and is pushing up soem hop particles from the cube hopping so looks a little greenish brown. This should subside today and be replaced with white/brown yeasty krausen. The gladwrap is also slight bulging.

One more thing left to say... :icon_drool2:


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## Dazza_devil (28/10/10)

I gave my fermenter a gentle rock last night and most of the krausen dropped. I was pleasantly surprised to find just under an inch of krausen had reformed this morning. I'll take a hydro sample tonight and assess the situation but it's lookin good.


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## Shed101 (28/10/10)

Boagsy said:


> I gave my fermenter a gentle rock last night and most of the krausen dropped. I was pleasantly surprised to find just under an inch of krausen had reformed this morning. I'll take a hydro sample tonight and assess the situation but it's lookin good.



Mate, i've got washed topcrop in the fridge that's nearly three weeks old and it's still developing froth on top!


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## Dazza_devil (30/10/10)

Shed101 said:


> Mate, i've got washed topcrop in the fridge that's nearly three weeks old and it's still developing froth on top!




I wont hold my breath waitin' for the krausen to drop then, still a good 2cm sittin on the brew. A hydrometer reading taken last night gave me just under 1.012 which I'm fairly confident will be FG and 72% attenuation which isn't too bad for my first partial mash. I'm undecided on racking this one to a secondary and CC'ng it for longer than I usually would. This brew may benefit from being off the kettle trub for a while and clearing up a bit before bottling.


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## RdeVjun (30/10/10)

Yeah Boagsy, 1469 krausen persists, don't let it bother you, its just what it does. 

I'm getting lazy so only occasionally can I be bothered with clearing (if it convenient I will CC one along with the lagers), however what I have found easy but also quite effective of late is a tablespoon dry PVPP (eg. Polyclar) nearing the end of primary, but that's mostly in lagers as I never secondary a 1469. Other than that, I've been meaning to agar one instead of gelatine prior to bottling, but its ages since I've even done that. In the mean time, I've noted a bit of chill haze and some suspended sediments, but not enough to spur me into action. The pair of UK Bitters I entered in QABC didn't note any clarity issues, so it can't be that bad!

With the FG, even though 1469 can rush it through, I seldom even look at it within a fortnight of pitching, yours would be getting close to that now I guess.

Kettle trub though? :blink: I'm hoping you actually mean fermenter trub? Please tell me the hops debris and majority of the hot break stayed in the kettle? If not, I'd advise to doing that in future, the stuff may not wreck a beer completely (home brewers do seem more tolerant of faults!) but can make life pretty unpleasant. I hope ordinary fermenter trub what you meant...


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## Dazza_devil (30/10/10)

RdeVjun said:


> Kettle trub though? :blink: I'm hoping you actually mean fermenter trub? Please tell me the hops debris and majority of the hot break stayed in the kettle? If not, I'd advise to doing that in future, the stuff may not wreck a beer completely (home brewers do seem more tolerant of faults!) but can make life pretty unpleasant. I hope ordinary fermenter trub what you meant...



I'm not sure how much kettle trub made it into my fermenter. I whirlpooled, let settle out while cooling then siphoned, leaving 3 litres of trub in the kettle, so probably not much. It's the first time I've had to deal with hot and cold break or trub from a mash so I'm not sure what to expect. My latest hydro sample had some off aromas which may have been a product of fermenter/yeast trub but not an over familiar smell nor one that was present in my earlier sample. The sample cleared through the night and now smells of delicious beer. I'm guessing that whatever was in suspension was the culprit hence the inclination to rack but I suppose it will settle out with time in the primary and a CC.


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## RdeVjun (30/10/10)

Ahh, sounds fine to me Boagsy, phew! :super: The tap is at the bottom, more likely to pick up a bit of yeasty debris (i.e. fermenter trub) in your hydro sample, even if you flush a couple of samples- worth through. The so- called 'sediment reducer' is useless too. Now, everyone just relax! :icon_cheers:


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## Dazza_devil (30/10/10)

RdeVjun said:


> Ahh, sounds fine to me Boagsy, phew! :super: The tap is at the bottom, more likely to pick up a bit of yeasty debris (i.e. fermenter trub) in your hydro sample, even if you flush a couple of samples- worth through. The so- called 'sediment reducer' is useless too. Now, everyone just relax! :icon_cheers:




Sounds optimistically probabilically what I was thinkin.
I only ever used that 'sediment reducer' once, for that anyway. It does come in handy for bulk priming though.
I initially suspected DMS, I had my pot lid 2/3rds the way over the top of my kettle to keep a better boil happening. I suspect if it was DMS I would still be able to smell it in the latest hydro sample and in the previous sample plus the aroma was more yeasty than vegetal. Somethin like a good yeast fart but less potent.
I'll be investing in a burner before my next brew anyway.


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## beerbrewer76543 (4/11/10)

Would 1469 be suitable in an Irish Red Ale? Could it replace 1084?

I'm trying to narrow down a list of must have yeast strains

So far I'm at:

1007 German Ale (never used it)
1084 Irish Ale (never used it)
1469 West Yorkshire
1762 Belgian Abbey (never used it)
2565 Kolsch 
3068 Hefeweizen 

Cheers


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## Dazza_devil (4/11/10)

L_Bomb said:


> Would 1469 be suitable in an Irish Red Ale? Could it replace 1084?



Wouldn't that make it an English Brown?


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## Bribie G (7/11/10)

I just made an Irish red with 1469 but I've called it a Yorkshire Red :icon_cheers: I reckon it would be perfect for the particular malt bill that has 400g Caraaroma for starters.


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## tazman1967 (7/11/10)

Ok,
Love this Yeast, How do I keep this yeast going..
I want it for a house yeast, dont want to fart around with it.
Just want a method thats short and no fuss ?


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## RdeVjun (7/11/10)

Taz, with these seasonal or hard to get strains, a means to capure it for future use is necessary but it isnt' so simple. Commons methods are slants or vials. Actually beer itself is also a useful storage medium, i.e. reculturing from dregs after some storage, but I prefer to get a hold of seed stock closer to the source.
Know what you mean about a house strain, this stuff I have as my house strain and until lately I've used it about 3/4 of the time. I generally use it for 8 or more top cropped batches, if I happen to miss the early- mid ferment krausen then I'll just grab some yeast cake later, I don't bottle top cropped krausen for storage but some folks also do that. Top cropping is a speedy and efficient inoculation method, after the first initial batch with a new strain* there's no need to fart around with subsequent starters and with these daughter batches growth is extremely rapid, usually a generous top crop is well underway within a day. If I think it is no longer the same strain that I originally started with (i.e. its characteristics have drifted) or is infected which is very, very rare, I'll restart from a fresh slant. I have used slants well over a year old, no problems at all, but I do also re- slant when they reach that age just in case.
* Nb. Not all strains can be top cropped. 1469 is definitely a top cropper.

Edit: Clarity.


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## vykuza (25/7/12)

I'm performing a bit of thread necromancy here, but I've noticed some behaviour from 1469 that has me a tad puzzled.


I've been brewing a few beers with this recently, 2 milds, an ESB and a stout. All bar the stout (which is still in the fermenter) show the same flavour behaviour from this yeast strain.

I ferment, rest and chill it down to drop the yeast for a week, then keg and carb at serving temperatures for at least a week. So by the time I pour the first pint, it's been "conditioning" for two weeks at low temps, and carbing during that time. These first beers taste good, as expected from the grist and hop choices. From that point, the beer tastes worse and worse for the next week, peaking at a stage where I think it tastes rubbish. Harsh, unsubtle, not chemically, but almost a cleaning product or dish soap flavour? It's hard to describe, but if I had to describe it in one word, it would be "unrefined" or "harsh". I had a look through the off-flavour flashcards, but nothing struck me as being the cause. 

From that point, it improves again over a couple of weeks to a good end product.

Normally, I'd put this down to hop ageing, especially with dry or late hopped beers, but with the milds, there are no late hops at all. They taste good for a while, then crap for a few weeks, then good again. I've only noticed this with these beers, even the ESB which is late (but not dry) hopped. I didn't notice similar behaviour with similar recipes using Wyeast 1335 Britsh Ale II.

Anyone else seen similar with this strain, or others, that can't be attributed to hop flavour changes? Is it the hop flavour changes, even with single addition 60 and 90 minute additions of around 20 IBUs? If it's just green beer maturing, why does it taste good to begin with, then get worse before it hits its stride?


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## Wolfy (26/7/12)

Nick R said:


> Anyone else seen similar with this strain, or others, that can't be attributed to hop flavour changes? Is it the hop flavour changes, even with single addition 60 and 90 minute additions of around 20 IBUs? If it's just green beer maturing, why does it taste good to begin with, then get worse before it hits its stride?


Unless you have your keg-fridge set quite warm it's highly unlikely that the yeast (_at normal fridge temperatures_) will be active enough to have any impact on flavors changing over time - especially if they get worse and then improve as you have suggested. Assuming the kegs are kept at the same lowish temperature (and not taken out of the fridge and warmed up), the yeast will simply not be active enough to make any noticeable difference.


----------



## Phoney (26/7/12)

I found a pack of this at the back of my fridge recently, dated December 2010. I smacked it on Sunday night, it's now Thursday and it still hasn't swelled up. Should I chuck it?


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## Wolfy (26/7/12)

phoneyhuh said:


> I found a pack of this at the back of my fridge recently, dated December 2010. I smacked it on Sunday night, it's now Thursday and it still hasn't swelled up. Should I chuck it?


Give it a few more days, then if you really want to use the yeast, have the equipment and can be bothered, streak some onto an agar slant or plate; any live cells (and there might be a very small number, hence the pack has not swelled yet) will be easily identified and you can grow them up.


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## vykuza (26/7/12)

Wolfy said:


> Unless you have your keg-fridge set quite warm it's highly unlikely that the yeast (_at normal fridge temperatures_) will be active enough to have any impact on flavors changing over time - especially if they get worse and then improve as you have suggested. Assuming the kegs are kept at the same lowish temperature (and not taken out of the fridge and warmed up), the yeast will simply not be active enough to make any noticeable difference.




Thanks Wolfy, when it gets in to the keg, it's been cold "crashed" but not filtered, and first pours have small amounts of yeast. I'm going to guess that this flavour swing is probably from suspended yeast in early pours.

What I'm getting at is could the flavour changes be from yeast in suspension (that tastes good) to yeast dropping out (and tasting bad, or even green) and back to good again as it ages? 

If there's little hop influence in the beer, what, exactly is ageing the beer, or making it less green? What drives the improvement in flavour? 

Do filtered beers, for a comparable example a filtered cream ale (similarly lowish abv and low hop levels, but still an ale), improve once they've been kegged as well? If so, where's that improvement coming from?


I've got more reading to do....


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## technobabble66 (6/7/16)

Necro time.

Just thought i'd report on this amazing yeast strain.

I've recently done a Red Ale & an Old Ale using a batch of 1469; the Red being a "starter" for the Old ale (@ ~6% from memory). Both of these had the krausen blow out of the FV twice. Both were kept ~14-15°C.
Both smelled amazing coming out of the FV and during bottling. Both have a nice reserved fruitiness to them that combines well with the caramel & malty elements.
Sort of cherry & stone fruit, maybe, blended with caramel elements (did boiled reductions on both to highlight the caramel elements).

I'll have to let the Old Ale mature a little to report accurately on that, and maybe see how the next batch (below) goes.

Currently have the same batch of 1469 going on a Better Red Than Dead clone. Threw it in 2 nights ago straight onto the yeast cake of the Old Ale, its got a nice krausen going and it's chewed ~6 points off already. It's been sitting at 12°C the whole time!! Raised it to 13°C today.

I'm now a little scared to raise the temp any more in case it attacks me when i go to check it next time.


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## technobabble66 (7/7/16)

After ~60hrs at ~12*c. 
Last 12hrs were at 11*c to try to subdue it. 
Hoping these low temps won't cause it to stall, but I'll start ramping as it slows down. 
What a beast!


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