# SS brewmaster or brew bucket?



## BeerSwiller (1/11/14)

Hi all, 
Just wondering what people's thoughts area about the new fermenters from SS brewing?
Don't know whether to get the new version with built in thermowell or the old one and just stick on a thermometer strip?

Any advice would be great


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## MastersBrewery (1/11/14)

There are a couple of threads on this perhaps a mod can move this there.

As to your question the difference between a stick on thermometer strip and a thermowell is like comparing my three year olds trike with a V8 super car, if your going to spend money on bling do it once, do it right.

MB

ed: as usual my typing sux


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## spog (1/11/14)

Beerswiller said:


> Hi all,
> Just wondering what people's thoughts area about the new fermenters from SS brewing?
> Don't know whether to get the new version with built in thermowell or the old one and just stick on a thermometer strip?
> Any advice would be great


Spending money on bling is one thing but being able to use it correctly is another,now I'm not having a go at you or the retailer but you need to be aware that a shmick piece of gear will not produce better beer so is no good if not used correctly.
You need to tick some boxes as to where you will use the S/ S fermenter,is it in a position where the temp fluctuates,ie, an uncontrolled area such as a laundry, or a place where the temp can be an issue.
If you have a dedicated brewing area that has a decent ( managable) temperature control then go for it,the S/S fermenters are on my wish list.
Personally I wouldn't bother with the thermowell choice ( no idea regarding cost) because in a dedicated ,well insulated brewing area the heat gain from the weather will have bugger all effect on a brew when all is taken into consideration.( thermal mass,blah blah.).the same goes for heat loss during winter.
The choices are as confusing yet as simple as you wish to make them,so brew your way so long as you are happy.
Cheers....spog.....


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## Spiesy (2/11/14)

Completely disagree with Spog's comments on thermowell v no thermowell. 

For me personally, for an extra $50, I'd go the thermowell each and every time. 

If you're prepared to spend $250 on a stainless fermenter, I'd imagine an extra 20% for pinpoint temperature control shouldn't be an issue. 

Thermal mass of the brew certainly plays a massive part. Which is why your active fermentation is going to be quite different to the ambient space in your fermentation chamber, which will fluctuate rapidly. 

Of course, either fermenter will serve you well, and you could always drop a thermowell in the bucket yourself, if you were so inclined. But for me personally, as a Bucket user, I miss having a thermowell for temp control.


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## Blind Dog (2/11/14)

If you can control the temp of the ferment, I'd get the thermowell. If you can't, I don't see the point. Mine are in the fridge and I've got a thermowell that goes through the lid (bought mine when the fitted thermowell was not an option; haven't fitted it yet, but I keep meaning to).


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## TSMill (2/11/14)

Personally I'd prefer the standard bucket, running a thermowell through the lid. Less potential leak points and easier to clean.


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## sheep (2/11/14)

The advantage of a thermowell is that you're actually monitoring the temp of your fermentation which can be quite different from the ambient. 

You can just tape the sensor with some insulation on the outside but I find it a lot less mucking around to just slot it into the well. 

If you're not temperature controlling then why are you buying a bling fermenter tbh.. A cheap fridge and controller is a far better investment.


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## BeerSwiller (2/11/14)

Thanks for all the info guys, firstly i do have a fermenting fridge with temperature control and was intending on using the STC temp controller probe inside the thermowell.
Was just wondering about peoples thoughts on using with a thermowell vs just sticking the probe to the side of the fermenter like i do with plastic on i currently have.

Cheers
Justin


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## Kodos (2/11/14)

At ANCH John Blichmann said he was quite happy taping the sensor to the side of his SS fermenter. His conicals don't seem to have one either - if he saw any benefit in adding one, and charging for it, I'm sure he would.

But, I've not tested the differences personally (some on this forum have, to mixed results from memory) and I can understand brewers' determination to seek the most precise info they can, so each to their own.

Edit:

Just found this in the Blichmann FAQs:


HOW DO I INSTALL A TEMPERATURE PROBE IN MY CONICAL FERMENTOR?



Many brewers use digital temperature control to monitor and control fermentations. In our opinion, immersion probes are overkill for these small conicals – and open another area for contamination risk. We know it doesn’t look as cool, but a liquid crystal thermometer on the outside is inexpensive and actually has the accuracy of an RTD (+/- 0.5F). We have measured the sidewall temperature versus core temperature at high krausen using precision instrumentation, and there is less than 1° difference – insignificant in reality. If you are using the probe for control, just tape the probe to the side of the tank using a small piece of aluminum duct tape. Again, you’ll be easily within 1°, and you have nothing to sanitize. In addition, this limits thermal cycling of your cooling equipment and overcooling that can happen with immersion probes. At Blichmann Engineering, we very much believe simple is better. While we would make more money selling you this equipment, our philosophy is to provide value. We would never recommend a product we wouldn't use in our own brewery.


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## BeerSwiller (2/11/14)

A lot of great info thanks guys, I have emailed Andrew @ Full Pint to maybe change my order to the original brew bucket, thinking that might be the go as it will save me pulling an thing apart and cleaning/sanitizing when its not going to be a real bonus having.

thanks


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## doon (2/11/14)

You shouldnt have to pull a thermowell apart


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## Camo6 (2/11/14)

Cleaning won't take any longer for the thermowell. Between brews I clean then soak my BB bit's in Starsan before reassembly (I have the original buckets without thermowell), so can't see this adding much extra effort.

I assume the Brewmaster bucket comes with the digital temp sensor and thermowell? If so, there's nothing stopping you from using your STC probe insulated on the outside and compare it with the digital reading of the probe. Consider it research for the rest of us.  Then, when you buy a second, you could compare differences between the two fermentors in the same ferment chamber. Further research!

Being a static fitting I can't really see it leaking and for an extra $50(?) you probably couldn't make a clean hole and fit a thermowell in it for that much cheaper.

I guess the main decision is whether it's within the budget, otherwise you can't lose either way, they're both nice bits of kit. Would I have bought the Brewmaster over the original series? Maybe, maybe not, but I have all the tools at my disposal to modify one if I wanted too.

Whatever you choose, do me a favour and email this Andrew at Full Pint character several times, constantly changing your order and asking ludicrous questions whilst making extravagant demands. Do it. Test his mettle.


(No affiliation with Full Pint aside from meeting the boys via this site and it's consequent gatherings, as well as a general love of brewing and the odd naked brew session.)


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## TidalPete (2/11/14)

> Being a static fitting I can't really see it leaking and for an extra $50(?) you probably couldn't make a clean hole and fit a thermowell in it for that much cheaper.


Tight-arse brewer here. 
I used half a corny dip tube as a permanent thermowell through the lid of my original brew bucket then used the other half of the (approx.) $10 dip tube to do the same through the lid of a 30-litre ss olive oil drum.
Just posting this for the benefit of other cash-strapped brewers out there who might want to save a quid or two.
No pics as yet but can post if required.

Personally, if I was planning on getting a BB right now then I'd probably go for the original as going through the lid of the BB is a better (thermowell) option IMHO.


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## Camo6 (2/11/14)

TidalPete said:


> Tight-arse brewer here.


That makes two of us!

Your dip tube idea is what I was planning TP. How did you seal the end of the tube? What do you use to seal through the lid, I was thinking air lock grommet?

Oops, re-read. A permanent thermowell? Is this what you had welded into the lid? Any chance of a close up pic. I don't dare weld such thin stainless with my old TIG and I'd be worried it'd break on the first good knock.

(Apologies if you've already posted pics in the BB thread, I sometimes visit this site inebriated and forget stuff.  )


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## CrookedFingers (2/11/14)

Bet beerswiller,
I got a brewbucket and just drilled a 12mm hole for a 100mm thermowell that cost only $18 or so from a brew store online that may be a little cheeky an somewhere near a peak.
No stress on the cleaning as I only do it up finger tight and disassemble to clean.
Step drill for the hole, nice and slow with cutting fluid to avoid heating up.


Get it done !!


CF


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## CrookedFingers (2/11/14)

CrookedFingers said:


> Bet beerswiller,
> I got a brewbucket and just drilled a 12mm hole for a 100mm thermowell that cost only $18 or so from a brew store online that may be a little cheeky an somewhere near a peak.
> No stress on the cleaning as I only do it up finger tight and disassemble to clean.
> Step drill for the hole, nice and slow with cutting fluid to avoid heating up.
> ...








CF


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## TidalPete (2/11/14)

Camo6 said:


> That makes two of us!
> 
> Your dip tube idea is what I was planning TP. How did you seal the end of the tube? What do you use to seal through the lid, I was thinking air lock grommet?
> 
> ...


There are times Camo, when being a tight-arse does not pay off. 

Originally I had lined up both ss lids to be TIG'd through a friend of a friend whose welds on the thin olive oil drum lid did not turn out too well at all. 
A bit of a repair job using food-grade solder with a bit of heat & lots of flux filled in all the holes & crevices where nasties could lurk & solved that one.

As for the BB, I was able to solder the length of dip tube to both the top & underside of the lid (fillet welds) using food-grade solder & an electric soldering iron.
Now I know that solder does not make a high-strength joint but the fact that both sides were soldered should make for a joint of reasonable strength as long as you're careful & not too rough.
I actually got a grommet for the BB from Clark Rubber before deciding to solder instead. 

PS --- End of dip tube was sealed with a small scrap of ss sheet then soldered but you can easily just fold the end over then solder or use FG silicone.
Brew day tomorrow so can post pics if you're interested?


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## Camo6 (2/11/14)

Please do TP, can never have enough brew pics.

CrookedFingers setup looks neat as well.

I'm running two BB's atm and have been sticking with the old STC probe and piece of foam for now. Mainly so I can swap the probe from one fermentor to the next so I'm measuring the temp of the most recent ferment. My batches tend to be offset so the first batch goes on the bottom of the fridge and a week later the second batch goes on the top shelf. I figure that while I control the temp of the top shelf, the lower shelf should remain, if anything, slightly cooler.


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## spog (2/11/14)

Beerswiller said:


> Hi all,
> Just wondering what people's thoughts area about the new fermenters from SS brewing?
> Don't know whether to get the new version with built in thermowell or the old one and just stick on a thermometer strip?
> Any advice would be great


Advice asked for and advice/opinions given,ah don't ya love the HB hobby.
Now all you need to do is decide what will suit you best... Gravity 3 tier,herms,Biab,pumps,grains and storage,hops,recipes,bottles,kegs,kegerators,co2 cylinder buy or rent,chill or no chill,beer engines,labels,gadgets and gizmo's.
Aaaand mowing the lawn,work,family.....etc.

Cheers....spog....


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## TidalPete (2/11/14)

> the first batch goes on the bottom of the fridge and a week later the second batch goes on the top shelf. I figure that while I control the temp of the top shelf, the lower shelf should remain, if anything, slightly cooler.


I do something similar Camo except I brew again next day if needed.
Will take pics tomorrow & ITM here's the first pic of my ss fermenters in action. Very easy to swap the probe around these days.


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## welly2 (2/11/14)

Can anyone give me the dimensions of. The SS brewmaster as I'm finding it a bit difficult to find online. Just out of curiosity to see if it would fit in my fermenting fridge. Not that I have any plans to get one. No, definitely not.


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## Yob (2/11/14)

What's the red gizmo in the door Pete?


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## TidalPete (2/11/14)

That's just a waterproof case from Bunnings to keep any moisture away from the power lead connections to the heat pad Yob.
Better sure than sorry.

Edit ---- Brew Bucket is 530mm high x 337mm at widest point (including clips). The hump in my ferm fridge in the above pic is 240mm high with the space between it & the door seal 340mm. Brewmaster should be something similar.
Hope this helps?


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## welly2 (2/11/14)

Cheers TP. Just out of interest, again I've got no plans to buy one (honest h34r, what's the different between the brewmaster bucket and brewbucket? From what I can tell - thermowell and an LCD thermometer.


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## TidalPete (2/11/14)

Haven't looked to closely but I'd say that's about it.
Brewmaster should be the same size but with the extra gizmos.
Others will know for sure.


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## BeerSwiller (3/11/14)

spog said:


> Advice asked for and advice/opinions given,ah don't ya love the HB hobby.
> Now all you need to do is decide what will suit you best... Gravity 3 tier,herms,Biab,pumps,grains and storage,hops,recipes,bottles,kegs,kegerators,co2 cylinder buy or rent,chill or no chill,beer engines,labels,gadgets and gizmo's.
> Aaaand mowing the lawn,work,family.....etc.
> 
> Cheers....spog....



Sure is handy that's for sure, 
Got a 20lt BM, keg fridge and all the bits so replacing the old plastic fermenter was the last thing on the list (so far)


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## Feldon (3/11/14)

For people looking for a cheap thermowell option, maybe search e-bay for big stainless steel knitting needles.





For example: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/22Pcs-11-Sizes-14-36cm-Stainless-Steel-Single-Pointed-Knitting-Needles-Tool-/310964599720?pt=AU_Knitting&hash=item4866ef3ba8

For $8.69 with free shipping you can get 22 x 36cm long, stainless knitting needles. They are hollow. And the point is already closed off - no need to weld or solder closed. The tapered point also allows you to wedge the temp probe in, especially if you apply a little thermal paste.

To use in a fermentor: Cut knob off needle; insert needle through drilled out bung; insert bung into hole in fermentor lid; insert temp probe inside needle.


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## Spiesy (3/11/14)

Brewmaster Bucket is the same dimensions as the original BrewBucket.


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## Dixon (3/11/14)

Feldon said:


> For people looking for a cheap thermowell option, maybe search e-bay for big stainless steel knitting needles.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's an excellent idea, I have been wondering where I could get some cheap thermowell's from.


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## Feldon (3/11/14)

With the stainless needles, just make sure the internal diameter is large enough to accommodate your temp probe.


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## TidalPete (3/11/14)

Here’s those pics of the BB lid with soldered thermowell Camo.

Feldon’s knitting needles look good. The two biggest seem large enough to take a 6mm dia probe like mine.


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## Black Devil Dog (3/11/14)

Feldon said:


> For people looking for a cheap thermowell option, maybe search e-bay for big stainless steel knitting needles.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They look pretty good. How do you know they're hollow, i'm guessing you're using one?

What to do with the other 21 knitting needles, hmmm ........get another hobby? Knitting and home brewing.

I could knit a cozy for my urn.


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## sluggerdog (6/11/14)

The decision for me was easy, I had been waiting for the brewmaster to come along since the original brew bucket came out. Being able to put the fridge temp controller into the thermowell is what I was after for better control and accuracy. I didn't want to do this myself / didn't want to modify the unit as it came.

I'm looking forward to the delivery (pre ordered from newera brewing) hopefully late next week if all goes to plan with their shipping.


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