# Rinsing Yeast (in Pictures)



## Wolfy

Rinsing yeast is a technique used to 'wash' the yeast/trub slurry found on the bottom of the fermentor after the beer has been removed. The 'cleaned' yeast can be pitched directly into a new batch of beer, or saved for later re-use. I've used the term 'rinsing' (as used in the recently published 'Yeast' book) to differentiate between 'washing' the yeast in water to remove trub and debris from 'acid-washing', a process used to to eliminate biological contaminants.

This process was described very well by *chiller *in this AHB forum thread some years ago, but as an additional starting point, there are some photos in the Yeast Rinsing Experiment which show the difference between yeast and trub.

While the process of yeast rinsing is dependent on the yeast-strain, wort composition and what (if any) fininings were used, the basic process relies on the fact that the yeasty-trub will form three distinct layers when left to settle:





Here you can see the fermentor-dregs of a dark UK-style ale. The top clear layer of left-over beer, the creamy-yeasty middle layer, and then the trub (protiens, break material and other debris) on the bottom. The process of rinsing the yeast aims to retain only the middle layer of yeast and discard the other two layers, especially the trub and debris.

I wash my yeast in (~400ml) glass pickle jars, they can be easily heat-sterilized (in a pressure cooker or boiled in a large pot) and boiling water can be tipped directly into them to enhance the sanitation procedures. Ideally sterile distilled water should be used for yeast washing, however I use plain boiled and cooled tap-water (here in Melbourne the water is very soft and contains few minerals, but if you live in an area with hard water it may be a good idea to use treated or even bottled water). When working with yeast try to keep the equipment and procedures as clean and sterile as possible, and if possible keep the temperature constant, don't shock the yeast by tipping in water too cold or hot. I try to pre-boil the water and seal the jars a day or two in advance so that the yeast and the water will be the same temperature.

Here is the trub in the bottom of the fermetor after a recently brewed Australian Ale (using Coopers re-cultured yeast):





Add a jar full of cooled-boiled water (approx 400ml) and shake/swirl and mix it around and it should look like this:





Let the yeasty-liquid-trub settle for 10 to 15mins, and then the first step of the rinsing process is to decant the majority of the liquid into the rinsing-jars, but leaving behind any large bits of gunk, break material, hop or other debris:





Depending how much beer was left behind, how much yeast and how much trub you have, you should easily be able to fill 1 or 2 jars. Generally yeast rinsed from one jar is enough to pitch into a new batch of beer, but I also wanted to save some for later re-use, so I ended up with 2 jars full of yeasty-trub and the left overs in the fermentor shown above:


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## Wolfy

Now we need to be patient and watch what happens, after about 10 to 30mins you should start to see three distinct layers in the jar, clear water/beer ontop, a creamy layer of suspended yeast in the middle and with the trub and break material falling to the bottom of the jar.
The time it takes, and exactly what it looks like depends on the yeast, the wort, the grain, finnings and many other factors, so if you are not familiar with the process or the yeast it can be a good idea to let the jars sit for a number of hours (even a day) and watch as the trub and yeast settle out over time. However, the longer you let it sit the clearer the layers will become, but once the yeast starts to settle out of suspension it is harder to separate (so if you let it settle out to observe, simply shake it up so you can start the process again).





We want to keep the middle layer since that contains our yeast in suspension. If you do not leave it long enough you will still have trub mixed in, but if you leave it too long the more floculant yeast will have settled out. The process is a bit of trial-and-error, but by careful observation it's not too hard.

I've found that by the time the layers start to form about 1/2 to 2/3 of the jar's contents is the milky-homogenous-yeasty-suspension that we want to keep, the trub and debris on the bottom is usually a darker, grainy layer, with the jars having a thin-clear layer on the top.
By carefully decanting the liquids we should be able to discard the clear top-layer, keep the middle layer which is our yeast in suspension, and discard the bottom layer of trub.
The middle jar is the original one, with the trub remaining on the bottom, the jar on the right contains our top clear layer and the jar on the left is our yeast-in-suspension that we will keep:





The suspended-yeast-layer from the second jar was decanted into a flask ready for re-pitching, the top clear layer discarded and the trub (with some suspended yeast), that will also be discarded, remaining in the original jar:





If we have done it right and/or were lucky, by letting the saved yeast-in-suspension layer settle out, we should have only single layer of nice clean creamy yeast:




But if you find you still have a distinct layer of trub settling more quickly, simply repeat the process again.

The yeast in the flask was left to settle (refrigeration would have sped-up the process, however since I was going to directly re-pitch the yeast I did not want to risk thermal-shocking it, so instead just waited a day for it to settle out at fermentation temps).
Once the yeast has been rinsed and settled to form a thick compact layer of yeast-slurry (if it is viable and healthy) 50 to 100ml should be adequate for pitching into the next batch of beer.

The yeast in the jar, which will be stored for later use was washed several times more, until the liquid remained clear, each time decanting the liquid from the top and giving the yeast time to settle out:





When the liquid above the yeast is clear, it was split into 3 storage containers (ie: sterilized beer bottles):





Once they have been capped and labeled the washed yeast should remain viable if stored in the fridge for 6 to 9 months.




The thick layer of yeast on the bottom of the bottles should be adequate to pitch directly into a starter (I step it from 300ml to 1.5L before pitching), however yeast stored this way does not usually remain viable more than about 1 year.


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## [email protected]

What a way to make use of the 3am time slot while most others are sound asleep you are hard at work.

Great informative post again Wolfy, nice clear pics, this is all very similar to what i have been doing, but you have given me a few things to think about to refine my process further.

:icon_cheers:


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## beerdrinkingbob

Great job Wolfy :beerbang: 

One question, if you were using Mr malty re pitching calculator after the rinse, what would be the cells per ml that you would use to work out the amount to pitch.

Thanks for another great thread!

BDB


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## ekul

I reckon a separatory funnel would be great for this. You can get ones that would fit into the top of a conical flask to limit air exposure.
You could wait for the trub to settle, then drain it off, wait for the yeast to settle and then capture it.

thanks for the writeup wolfy, i'm always interessted in ways to make my yeast go further


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## chiller

Superb post Wolfy. Very well put together.

Steve


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## Dave70

Good work mate.

This kind of contribution epitomizes what joints like should be all about.


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## Pennywise

Should there be any concerns about headspace in the storage vessel? I store my yeast under "beer" and have always made sure to fill the bottle to about an inch & a half from the top or higher. Any point worrying about it?


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## goomboogo

ekul said:


> I reckon a separatory funnel would be great for this. You can get ones that would fit into the top of a conical flask to limit air exposure.
> You could wait for the trub to settle, then drain it off, wait for the yeast to settle and then capture it.
> 
> thanks for the writeup wolfy, i'm always interessted in ways to make my yeast go further



A bulk buy of separatory funnels?


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## kevin_smevin

goomboogo said:


> A bulk buy of separatory funnels?



Here's some i found earlier if you're interested http://www.wiltronics.com.au/catalogue/145...d=174934#174934

Probably not worth it for the $4 it would save


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## Wolfy

*beerdrinkingbob*, since the yeast has been washed there should be very little 'non yeast' material, so I slide that slider all the way down (close to 0%).
If I let the yeast settle out and form a nice solid layer on the bottom of the jar, the 'yeast concentration' can be slid all the way to the right for 'thick yeast'. However, since there is often an abundance of yeast-slurry, it does not hurt to be conservitive, so I assume a cell density of about 2.5billion cells per ml.

*ekul* a separation funnel would be ideal, however it's not a piece of gear that I think too many home-brewers will have at home. 

*Pennywise*, we're storing yeast not beer, the theory in storing it under 'pure' water (which is why distilled water is best) is that we push it into an almost dormant-state. Once the yeast settles settles it is not in contact with the air in the bottle (if it is under water or beer) but so even if there is a small exchange of air due to the large head-space, I don't imagine it would be a problem. What were you thinking would be a problem?


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## Fourstar

sexy looking yeasties. B) great work on the process mate, couldn't have done it better myself.


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## goomboogo

yum yum yum said:


> Here's some i found earlier if you're interested http://www.wiltronics.com.au/catalogue/145...d=174934#174934
> 
> Probably not worth it for the $4 it would save



I was joking about the bulk buy. However, the funnel is a great idea for this process. Sure, you can easily decant from the jars but the funnel would be a great bit of kit. It's like everything in this hobby; how much gear you want to use is up to you.


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## corcatraz

Just having a binge on reading about yeast atm so this is perfect.

Cheers Wolfy!


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## Pennywise

> we're storing yeast not beer, the theory in storing it under 'pure' water (which is why distilled water is best) is that we push it into an almost dormant-state. Once the yeast settles settles it is not in contact with the air in the bottle (if it is under water or beer) but so even if there is a small exchange of air due to the large head-space, I don't imagine it would be a problem. What were you thinking would be a problem?



I was thinking about any contaminants in the air being left in the bottle, I just figured if I minimised that, it could only be agood thing.


On another issue, I've got a bottle of distilled water that's been opened. What's the general thoughts on using it straight from the bottle, or should I boil/ccol it now it's been opened?


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## jonw

Would you make any change to this process for WLP002? I find that it flocculates so well that I end up with lumps of (what I assume is) yeast, and they settle out first. Would you just throw them out with the trub and keep what's left in suspension? I guess you could also give the jar a good swirl to try to "dissolve" some of the lumps.

Cheers,

Jon


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## Jazzafish

Well done mate,

Great post and awesome example of a working method.


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## Fourstar

Pennywise said:


> On another issue, I've got a bottle of distilled water that's been opened. What's the general thoughts on using it straight from the bottle, or should I boil/ccol it now it's been opened?



Distilled or de-mineralised water? These are different.

The one you get for irons at the supermarket are demineralised in most instances which is essentially RO water, not distilled. Your just as well off using Melbourne tap water which has been boiled and cooled.


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## Fourstar

jonw said:


> Would you make any change to this process for WLP002? I find that it flocculates so well that I end up with lumps of (what I assume is) yeast, and they settle out first. Would you just throw them out with the trub and keep what's left in suspension? I guess you could also give the jar a good swirl to try to "dissolve" some of the lumps.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jon



(same goes for Wy1968)
short of popping it into a flask and onto a stir plate i'd just swirl the fermenter until it breaks up and comes back into suspension and start the process from there into the jars. Ive done this before with 1968 for separating yeast and trub and have had no problems identifying trub/yeast/water layers.


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## Pennywise

Pretty sure it says both de-mineralised & distilled on the bottle, but I'll have a look when I get home.


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## bignath

Great work, thanks Wolfy!

I have just started (pun intended) to get into reusing yeasts and creating starters. This thread is now permanently etched into my favourites list to reference as i am very new to it all.

Cheers for all your hard work!


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## Wolfy

Pennywise said:


> I was thinking about any contaminants in the air being left in the bottle, I just figured if I minimised that, it could only be agood thing.


Since I only boil the water and do not sterilize it in the autoclave (and since your beer will (usually) have a small level of contamination due to being sanitary and not sterile), it would be my assumption that there would be very few dust particles in the air, and that there would be fewer risks of contamination from that than filling the bottle with any liquid that is not sterile, anything in the air-space would settle very quickly and IMHO be no more risk - since the bottle is capped tightly - than filling it with liquid.

It seems that Coles does sell 'distilled water' but I wouldn't imagine it is sterile or even more sanitary than tap water, however the level of contaminants should be minimal, but boiling it or even better autoclaving it would be ideal - up to you if you want to be that pedantic. 


jonw said:


> Would you make any change to this process for WLP002? I find that it flocculates so well that I end up with lumps of (what I assume is) yeast, and they settle out first. Would you just throw them out with the trub and keep what's left in suspension? I guess you could also give the jar a good swirl to try to "dissolve" some of the lumps.


As *Fourstar *said, I just shake the crap out of the jar in an effort to break up all the clumps and flocs, that way you should still get an adequate speration of layers, even if you do discard some of the most flocculant yeast that settles within a few mins.


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## Fourstar

Wolfy said:


> As *Fourstar *said, I just shake the crap out of the jar in an effort to break up all the clumps and flocs, that way you should still get an adequate speration of layers, even if you do discard some of the most flocculant yeast that settles within a few mins.




This is a very important thing to note. A reason for rinsing your yeast is that you want to be capturing the moderately flocculant yeast. so by doing this, the ones that drop out of suspension and are less attenuative are not transferred across as are the less flocculant that you pour off the top.


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## ekul

those sep funnels at wiltronics are a pretty good price. The bottom ones will fit into the top of a flask too.


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## Pennywise

Bottle just says distilled water, but on the back it says steam distilled which leaves no minerals or salts. So I'm guessing it's demineralized as well. Bugger it, the bottles opened, I'll just boil it


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## sama

Does anyone decant the yeast/beer/trub mix via the ferm tap after a good swirl?ive allways scooped it out with a boiled glass


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## Wolfy

sama said:


> Does anyone decant the yeast/beer/trub mix via the ferm tap after a good swirl?ive allways scooped it out with a boiled glass


I simply up-end the fermentor and tip it into the jars, that is one reason the wide-mouth jars are so useful.
In the very last photo shown in the second post, you can see that that technique does make a small amount of mess, but I'd rather wipe up the dribbles than have to use funnels and the like, and tipping the fermentor up means I have more control over what is tipped into the jars and what stays behind in the fermentor.


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## The Giant

I used a wlabs edinburgh ale liquid yeast for the first time in a wee heavy I put down. At $16 a pop I thought I wouldn't bother again but I think after reading this I might just have a crack at washing it and reusing it. 

Cheers for the tips!


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## Wolfy

Here is the process again, just with a different yeast/slurry/beer.

Fermentor dregs:






Add water, mix, decant into jar:





Allow to sit for appox 20mins:





Tip out top-non-yeast layer, decant (and keep) suspended-yeast middle later into second jar (on left), discard trub remaining in original jar (on right):





Allow yeast to settle (one day) and it's ready to repitch (after decanting the clear liquid):


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## CONNOR BREWARE

Wolfy said:


> I simply up-end the fermentor and tip it into the jars, that is one reason the wide-mouth jars are so useful.
> In the very last photo shown in the second post, you can see that that technique does make a small amount of mess, but I'd rather wipe up the dribbles than have to use funnels and the like, and tipping the fermentor up means I have more control over what is tipped into the jars and what stays behind in the fermentor.


Great post mate, this compliments the farming techniques i learnt from chiller? really nicely. Patricularly the shots of old beer, yeast and trub. When i started farming i was actualy getting that bit arsed around till it dawned on me. Lately i've been getting lazy and not been following all the steps but my viability has dropped so you,ve inspired me to do it properly again.

I've always been worried that the dried brown rim of hops left behind by the krausen might contaminate the slurry so I try and use a serialized scoop or carefully clean the scum away and alcohol swab the side, on the inside, of the fermenter i'm pouring from. Please don't tell me i've just been making farming unneccessarily hard??? What do you guys think?


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## wakkatoo

subscribed. Yet another quality thread from you wolfy, thankyou.


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## Hogan

Duke of Paddy said:


> I've always been worried that the dried brown rim of hops left behind by the krausen might contaminate the slurry so I try and use a serialized scoop or carefully clean the scum away and alcohol swab the side, on the inside, of the fermenter i'm pouring from. Please don't tell me i've just been making farming unneccessarily hard??? What do you guys think?



Duke. That layer of crud is just whats left after the krausen finishes and drops. Bits of hop, yeast and protein. It should be as clean as your yeast cake and if it was infected then the beer would be too. Just spray some sanitiser on the top rim and threads or wipe with a alcohol pad.

Cheers, Hoges.


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## humulus

Thanks Wolfy,actually doing this right now following your post step by step,let you know how it goes!
humulus


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## Wolfy

Duke of Paddy said:


> Please don't tell me i've just been making farming unneccessarily hard??? What do you guys think?


Yeah I think you have. 
As per what *Hogan *said, if there was _any _infection _anywhere _inside the container the beer and hence the yeast would already be contaminated, there is no reason to think the brown-scum would hold or contain anything nasty.


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## CONNOR BREWARE

Wolfy said:


> Yeah I think you have.
> As per what *Hogan *said, if there was _any _infection _anywhere _inside the container the beer and hence the yeast would already be contaminated, there is no reason to think the brown-scum would hold or contain anything nasty.


cheers lads


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## Golani51

thanks for the article. Great saver.

R


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## hotchilli

I've been salvaging trub and keeping it in the fridge for a while, but this thread has inspired me to try rinsing and separating the yeast. So far, my ale yeasts, Nottingham & US05 are separating out nicely - see photos below. BUT, my lager yeast S23 is not separating into three distinct layers. As far as I can tell, the yeast and trub are still mixed together. Is this typical for a lager yeast (bottom fermenting??) or is there something wrong with my technique?


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## ploto

Thanks for taking the time to make this post Wolfy, it clears up a lot of questions floating around in my head.



Wolfy said:


> It seems that Coles does sell 'distilled water' but I wouldn't imagine it is sterile or even more sanitary than tap water, however the level of contaminants should be minimal, but boiling it or even better autoclaving it would be ideal - up to you if you want to be that pedantic.



In my experience it is far from sterile, I once bought a 5l bottle of distilled water from k-mart (for non-brewing purposes) and found a dead mosquito floating in it...


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## Golani51

ploto said:


> Thanks for taking the time to make this post Wolfy, it clears up a lot of questions floating around in my head.
> 
> 
> 
> In my experience it is far from sterile, I once bought a 5l bottle of distilled water from k-mart (for non-brewing purposes) and found a dead mosquito floating in it...



Maybe they disinfected the mosquito?? Microwave on high power for 2 minutes and then sprayed with Starsan??
Don't be so quick to judge.

Just my 2cents


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## jakethedog

I just tried my first yeast rinsing after reading this thread. It was US05. I did not get a discernable trub layer afer leaving it overnight so should I just keep the middle part of the mixture? Also i just realised I ran the yeast slurry through the FV tap after leaving it on the bench for about an hr, so hopefully I did not pick up any nasties.


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## stef

I've just fermented a couple of cubes using s189. I have been using a very similar method to collect yeast as outlined by wolfy in the past, however with these batches i threw in (loose) a good measure of hop pellets for dry hopping. These dropped out of suspension during CCing, but when i collected my yeast, i had a good few inches of hops, trub & debris and (it seemed) not too much actual yeast. 

So my thoughts are- make a starter out of the jar of yeast and trub and once its fermenting, transfer the fermenting wort to a different container and continue to build up a starter to grow the yeast, then once i have enough, collect the yeast.

Other option is to build the starter from a couple of bottles of the beer and take the yeast from there- as there is obviously no trub/hops etc... Any thoughts?


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## hotchilli

hotchilli said:


> ...... Is this typical for a lager yeast (bottom fermenting??) or is there something wrong with my technique?



Rather than try and get things exactly perfect, I decided to pitch the S23 yeast last night. I just poured off the wort layer and dumped the rest into the bottom of the fermenter (and then siphoned the new wort into the fermenter on top of the yeast). In the bottom of the jar was a very thick layer which stayed put and I didn't try to scrape it out - so I guess it had separated into 3 layers, I just couldn't see them. In any case, 8 hours later the airlock is bubbling away nicely, even at 12 deg C.

I've also separated and rinsed the US05 and Nottingham a second (third?) time, and I've now got some lovely creamy yeast ready to pitch. Thanks again Wolfy.


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## DKS

Sort of off topic :icon_offtopic: 

Ive just grabbed the slurry from an American Brown.Pitched fresh Am Ale II. While there were no apparent dramas the beer has acute acetaldedhyde which apparently will be OK with conditioning. 
My question is what about the yeast? Can this green apple be rinsed out? Is it a problem?
There is search results for this being in your beer but I cant find anything relavent about its effects on yeast to be harvested. 
Anybody? 
Daz


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## Wolfy

jakethedog said:


> I just tried my first yeast rinsing after reading this thread. It was US05. I did not get a discernable trub layer afer leaving it overnight so should I just keep the middle part of the mixture? Also i just realised I ran the yeast slurry through the FV tap after leaving it on the bench for about an hr, so hopefully I did not pick up any nasties.


Hi Jake, what brewing process and ingredients did you use?
It may be (for example) that if you were brewing with kits/extract there would be virtually no trub and other break material.
It's really hard to describe the process better than the pictures, but it is really a trial-and-error thing, since each situation, each set of ingredients and each person's processes will be different.


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## felten

DKS said:


> Sort of off topic :icon_offtopic:
> 
> Ive just grabbed the slurry from an American Brown.Pitched fresh Am Ale II. While there were no apparent dramas the beer has acute acetaldedhyde which apparently will be OK with conditioning.
> My question is what about the yeast? Can this green apple be rinsed out? Is it a problem?
> There is search results for this being in your beer but I cant find anything relavent about its effects on yeast to be harvested.
> Anybody?
> Daz


active healthy yeast will clean it up, and turn it into ethanol, shouldn't affect storage or repitching.

Unless its from an infection...


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## DKS

No infection apparent at this piont and its now in the keg.

Thanks Felton. Hopefully with a few rinses it'll be OK. :icon_cheers: 
Daz


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## bignath

just wondering, as i've started this process (and remarkably similar method) within days of wolfy posting this awesome guide, how long could someone feasibly keep a slurry for? Obviously assuming no infection etc...

I've got a few jars that i've been collecting to store my rinsed yeast in, but have a few of the McWilliams wine flagons that i intend to use for collecting slurrys. Can i keep collected slurry in these flagons (cleaned and sanitised) for any length of time so i can gradually keep taking samples to rinse from to build up quantity ready to pitch? or is there are time and temp where it's no longer any good??

Cheers in advance,

Nath


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## Wolfy

Big Nath said:


> just wondering, as i've started this process (and remarkably similar method) within days of wolfy posting this awesome guide, how long could someone feasibly keep a slurry for? Obviously assuming no infection etc...
> 
> I've got a few jars that i've been collecting to store my rinsed yeast in, but have a few of the McWilliams wine flagons that i intend to use for collecting slurrys. Can i keep collected slurry in these flagons (cleaned and sanitised) for any length of time so i can gradually keep taking samples to rinse from to build up quantity ready to pitch? or is there are time and temp where it's no longer any good??


The 'Yeast' book suggests not directly repitching slurry if it is more than a week or two old, and that it should be stored in the fridge. If you collected - and continually added to - a large quantity of yeast slurry in a flagon, it would likely quickly turn into something resembling Vegemite.
Having said that, the smaller samples of washed-yeast, shown in the second post at the start of this thread, should keep fine in the fridge, and be good to pitch into a starter even in 6-9 months time.


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## bignath

Wolfy said:


> The 'Yeast' book suggests not directly repitching slurry if it is more than a week or two old, and that it should be stored in the fridge. If you collected - and continually added to - a large quantity of yeast slurry in a flagon, it would likely quickly turn into something resembling Vegemite.
> Having said that, the smaller samples of washed-yeast, shown in the second post at the start of this thread, should keep fine in the fridge, and be good to pitch into a starter even in 6-9 months time.




thanks wolfy, what i'm trying to do isn't continually add to a slurry, but take smaller samples from the slurry over time.

The collected slurry in the flagon will be kept in a fridge at around 4-5degrees and because i don't have as many jars as i would like at the moment, i was intending to gradually take 3-4 samples from the slurry to build up enough rinsed collected yeast to combine into one of my jars ready to pitch.

hope this makes sense.

Cheers,

Nath


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## popmedium

Top post mate, thanks a bunch. I'm a touch away from this kind of procedure but I'll file it in the vault for later.
:beerbang:


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## Wolfy

Big Nath said:


> thanks wolfy, what i'm trying to do isn't continually add to a slurry, but take smaller samples from the slurry over time.
> 
> The collected slurry in the flagon will be kept in a fridge at around 4-5degrees and because i don't have as many jars as i would like at the moment, i was intending to gradually take 3-4 samples from the slurry to build up enough rinsed collected yeast to combine into one of my jars ready to pitch.
> 
> hope this makes sense.


Yep, that makes much more sense, but why not split the washed yeast in to 'individual' portions and store it in stubbies or similar?
That way you do not need to open it (and risk infection or the like) to take small amounts, you'd just pitch the entire small amount saved?


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## bignath

Wolfy said:


> Yep, that makes much more sense, but why not split the washed yeast in to 'individual' portions and store it in stubbies or similar?
> That way you do not need to open it (and risk infection or the like) to take small amounts, you'd just pitch the entire small amount saved?



Yeah, i 'spose i could do that. Hadn't thought of it to be honest.

Cheers mate.

Just out of curiosity, if it smells like yeast, and looks like yeast, GENERALLY would it be safe(ish) to assume that any amount of slurry in any vessel would still be ok to harvest from?? Once again, assuming no infection in beer that it came from, and stored in an appropriate way, at an appropriate temp??

Thanks for all of your help with this. (my first few forays into collecting and reusing yeasts)

Nath


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## The Giant

Had a shot at this tonight with the yeast from my wee heavy. So far got a nice top layer but no trub yet. Given it was a can brew with no hops or finings I'm guessing I prob won't be expecting much

In fact might got pour the first lot out and add some new water. 

Cheers for this wolfy. I'm still scared about using it in a brew as I've never done this before and I don't trust myself Hahah but who dares wins!


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## Yob

been thinking through this process for a while now, with my new set up I'm pretty sure I can get away with, racking to bulk prime, wash out 500ml yeast, bottle the brew, seperate yeast/trub, brew new, and rinse/clean sanitise fv and repitch yeast from same FV in the one day... 

I dont want to re pitch right on top of the trub.. besides I will not want the hops from the last brew in my next one.. probably..

anyway, nice one Wolfy.. helps to visualise the whole process and get a schedule going in the mind

:icon_chickcheers:


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## ledgenko

For the Giant , being a bit of a novice at yeast farming / recapturing I am curious to know the viability of yeast that has just had a rough trot with a "wee Heavy" being a higher alc beer ?? 

Open for comment and possibly WTF ??? 

cheers


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## The Giant

ledge to be honest I'm not sure. I guess the only way I'll find out is to successfully repitch this yeast.
The yeast I used was specifically for high alcohol beers as a wee heavy, mine was 6.5%
The krauzen on my original batch was massive and spewed out everywhere, I was actually worried about infection because I came home to find the gladwrap off and krauzen everywhere. The yeast stalled around 1024 so i added a teaspoon of yeast nutrient in hot water and it came down to 1012


After 24 hours and once pouring out the top layer, I'm noticing a pattern with mine (photo attached)
I seem to be getting a layer of foam/bubbles on top, then beer and then the creamy yeast underneath.
What would be the foam/bubbles on top?


----------



## The Giant

a​


----------



## The Giant

Wolfy?
Anyone?
haha


----------



## Wolfy

Try diluting it down by about 1/2 again, the 'Yeast' book suggests that by increasing the dilution that you should get more separation, however, if it was a kit-beer with nothing else added, I'm not sure you should expect too much trub since most of that break material is (I expect) removed in the manufacturing process.


----------



## The Giant

what do you reckon the bubbles/foam is on the top?

I've left it alone now for a few days, should I shake it up again and then let it settle out for 24 hours? or just take off the top wort part and add more water?


----------



## Wolfy

The Giant said:


> what do you reckon the bubbles/foam is on the top?


Looks like Krusen to me, like the yeast is resistant to dropping out and still wants to ferment stuff.
I'd shake it up and then dilute half, but like I said, if you used a kit, it may be that there is not trub or other matter that you need to filter out.


----------



## chiller

The Giant said:


> Had a shot at this tonight with the yeast from my wee heavy. So far got a nice top layer but no trub yet. Given it was a can brew with no hops or finings I'm guessing I prob won't be expecting much
> 
> In fact might got pour the first lot out and add some new water.
> 
> Cheers for this wolfy. I'm still scared about using it in a brew as I've never done this before and I don't trust myself Hahah but who dares wins!


 a 6.5 % beer isn't overly "heavy" and as such your yeast should be fine.

Try this: Harvest a reasonable amount of your yeast - clean it - take about 100 - 150ml ml of clean slurry/liquid and then add that to 2 litres straight from your fermenter holding your next beer. [assuming you intent to pitch n the same day or within 48 hours]. As it is so fresh it should be showing signs of fermentation within 1 to 3 hours. regardless of the time as soon as there is activity swill it all around and dump back into your new beer. You will be adding back reproducing yeast and they will be healthier than just adding slurry in case they are "tired" after a week on the Wee Heavy.

All the best 
Steve


----------



## The Giant

Thanks guys will do


----------



## tones0606

Rinsing yeast now, awesome thread.
I'm sure it will help alot people save a few bucks


----------



## ledgenko

Giant,
I had a similar situation and I have no idea as to what it is .... but in saying that I have put my "yeasties" into the fridge to try and achieve said layer cake .. as I have been trying to wash the wort off the yeast cake of a Burtons yeast the foam on top of the water has gone ... so I can only assume it is no yeasties or I would be pretty sad...lol.. 

The question though I have for the rest of the forum is what if you are trying to reculture or capture yeast from say a similar white Rabbit dark ale... is it a similar process ?? capure the last inch from 6 stubbies and try and grow them from that ?? do you wash them out using this same process??


----------



## HeavyNova

How does the addition of finings such as gelatin or isinglass effect this process? I've got some yeast I'd like to wash and reuse (never done it before either) but would also like to use some finings on the beer as the yeast I'm using loves staying in suspension.


----------



## Wolfy

HeavyNova said:


> How does the addition of finings such as gelatin or isinglass effect this process? I've got some yeast I'd like to wash and reuse (never done it before either) but would also like to use some finings on the beer as the yeast I'm using loves staying in suspension.


Since gelatine and isinglass both work by attracting yeast, forming clumps and then settling, I'd guess two things may happen. The flocs may settle more quickly thus making it more difficult to separate the yeast from trub, as a consequence you may be selecting only the least floculant or yeast less likely to floc when using such finings.


----------



## cdbrown

Great thread wolfy. I've been doing it the slack way and just scooping up the yeast slurry as is, bottling it and chilling it until I want to use it. Will now do it your way as it's a much better way of storing the yeast.

Question - I have just put down 42L of American IPA OG 1.059 est FG 1.012 with Wyeast 1056. I had planned on racking this at around day 4 and then dry hopping, leaving it for about 7 days before chilling and then kegging. Is it worth getting any of the slurry from the primary (which would be the early floccing yeast) or should I just get it all from the secondary and then wash it to remove the dry hop stuff. Or is it dependent on how far along the ferment has travelled - ie if it has fermented out by day 4.

Cheers
-cd


----------



## raven19

cdb - you could top crop it being 1056 easily also.

In your case, I would grab it from the primary as the secondary yeast will have additional hop debris in it.


----------



## CosmicBertie

HeavyNova said:


> How does the addition of finings such as gelatin or isinglass effect this process? I've got some yeast I'd like to wash and reuse (never done it before either) but would also like to use some finings on the beer as the yeast I'm using loves staying in suspension.




I would recommend racking off the beer into another fermenter. Basically put your finings into the bottom of the fermenter then syphon your beer onto it. Its mixes it up really well. Then you can scrape up the yeast from the first fermenter.

I do this, and it works a treat.


----------



## cdbrown

raven19 said:


> cdb - you could top crop it being 1056 easily also.
> 
> In your case, I would grab it from the primary as the secondary yeast will have additional hop debris in it.



Wouldn't the trub in the primary be full of early flocc yeast. Gravity sitting at 1.031 and will rack tomorrow when it's about 1.025 (heading to 1.012). So the trub will be full of yeast that stopped early and dropped out? The risk of only taking from secondary is that it will be full of the yeast that don't flocc as easily. I heard on a brew strong podcast that you want to get the early, middle and late flocc yeast when using slurry. I could take slurry from primary and secondary, wash them both and mix together.

If I top cropped - when is the best time to do that? Or is it fine to do it any time as long as it's still fermenting?


----------



## seamad

Kegged my LCBA today. Used American 2 (1272). Added trub to these glass jars and topped up with water, shook and looks like this @ 45min later...Alomost 1/2 a dozen layers WTF? Which ones do I want




cheers sean


----------



## DKS

Im in the middle of puting together a trub seperater from very cheap componants.
Ill post pics when in action. Just using PET disposable bottles and poly garden type valve and joiner.
Anybody made one? 
Thinking just to seperate the bulk of trub out of yeast cake. 
Scientific proffessional glass jobbie about $80 plus craddels and other componants. Im looking at $5 bucks.
I have componants and ideas just wanted to see if anyone else has had a go.
Thinking may be good for those that dont have a stir plate so to quickly grab yeast from fermenter reasonably clean.
Thoughts? 
Wolfy?
Daz


----------



## Wolfy

seamad said:


> Added trub to these glass jars and topped up with water, shook and looks like this @ 45min later...Alomost 1/2 a dozen layers WTF? Which ones do I want


It may be that you did not add enough water to allow easy separation, you want to add about 3-4 times as much water as there are solids, that way when you shake it, you should get good separation within 10-15mins, more than that and the yeast will start to settle out.


DKS said:


> ...
> Ill post pics when in action. Just using PET disposable bottles and poly garden type valve and joiner.
> ...
> Thinking may be good for those that dont have a stir plate so to quickly grab yeast from fermenter reasonably clean.
> Thoughts?


Sounds interesting and post pics for sure, however, a couple of glass jars are cheap (free) and easy to (heat) sterilize.
I've never had a problem separating yeast this way so for me I don't see the need for a 'device' to do it for me, especially if its going to be harder to sterlize, especially when I can simply tip the jars to decant the yeast/trub as required. If it was something that was used very often and easy to sterilize it might be worth the effort.


----------



## DKS

Wolfy said:


> It may be that you did not add enough water to allow easy separation, you want to add about 3-4 times as much water as there are solids, that way when you shake it, you should get good separation within 10-15mins, more than that and the yeast will start to settle out.
> 
> Sounds interesting and post pics for sure, however, a couple of glass jars are cheap (free) and easy to (heat) sterilize.
> I've never had a problem separating yeast this way so for me I don't see the need for a 'device' to do it for me, especially if its going to be harder to sterlize, especially when I can simply tip the jars to decant the yeast/trub as required. If it was something that was used very often and easy to sterilize it might be worth the effort.



Im just thinking of taking a full yeast cake into a seperating funnel with added water to help rinse.Settle out. Discharge bottom trub then run off middle section of yeast, dump remainning wort and PET bottle. A simple funnel from a PET with a tap on the bottom.
Probably wouldnt bother if you had a stir plate to make starters but maybe a handy gadget from time to time.
Will post pics when next ferment complete. and give it a run. :icon_cheers: 
Daz


----------



## Wolfy

DKS said:


> Probably wouldnt bother if you had a stir plate to make starters but maybe a handy gadget from time to time.


Making a starter with a stir-plate and rinsing the yeast-cake are two separate, independent and not related things IMHO.


----------



## DKS

Wolfy said:


> Making a starter with a stir-plate and rinsing the yeast-cake are two separate, independent and not related things IMHO.




Yep, I agree. Not trying to confuse one with the other. Just another method of getting yeast ready for use.
Daz


----------



## cdbrown

I kegged my AIPA last night and was following this thread for rinsing the yeast. Got 3 jars worth of slurry and topped up with water after about 10mins the break was clearly settling at the bottom but there wasn't much separation of the yeast and the beer. Decanted the top section to another jar, topped up with water and discarded the trub. Did this with the three jars. After that it became quite difficult to see the settling so left it for an hour and I could see some compacted stuff at the bottom - about 3 or 4 different coloured layers, the liquid above had a light colour but I'm thinking that some of the yeast had settled over that time so decided to put them in the fridge so I can decant off the beer tonight and top up with fresh water again. I'll probably split them across more jars as well as I'm thinking I've got too much solids compared to water. Not repitching these anytime soon so will probably do the washing fairly cool - any problem with that?


----------



## Yob

cdbrown said:


> I kegged my AIPA last night and was following this thread for rinsing the yeast. Got 3 jars worth of slurry and topped up with water after about 10mins the break was clearly settling at the bottom but there wasn't much separation of the yeast and the beer. Decanted the top section to another jar, topped up with water and discarded the trub. Did this with the three jars. After that it became quite difficult to see the settling so left it for an hour and I could see some compacted stuff at the bottom - about 3 or 4 different coloured layers, the liquid above had a light colour but I'm thinking that some of the yeast had settled over that time so decided to put them in the fridge so I can decant off the beer tonight and top up with fresh water again. I'll probably split them across more jars as well as I'm thinking I've got too much solids compared to water. Not repitching these anytime soon so will probably do the washing fairly cool - any problem with that?




it can help to pre-boil the rinsing water and put it in the fridge so it is at the same temps as the yeast you want to wash... this also help to minimise the temp fluctuations of the yeast. The more stable the temps the more the yeast will appreciate it.

by the way, if it's not seperating it means you need to dilute it more

lots of good info in this (BN) Rinsing Yeast... really goes hand in hand with this topic...

Yob


----------



## Yob

Quick question..

why not distilled water for storing rinsed yeast? in the BN podcast he doest really explain, just says sterile water not distilled. Must be a reason for it...

Yob


----------



## ashley_leask

iamozziyob said:


> Quick question..
> 
> why not distilled water for storing rinsed yeast? in the BN podcast he doest really explain, just says sterile water not distilled. Must be a reason for it...
> 
> Yob



The lack of any mineral content in the distiller water will cause some loss of minerals etc from the yeast cells via osmosis.


----------



## stef

jonw said:


> Would you make any change to this process for WLP002? I find that it flocculates so well that I end up with lumps of (what I assume is) yeast, and they settle out first. Would you just throw them out with the trub and keep what's left in suspension? I guess you could also give the jar a good swirl to try to "dissolve" some of the lumps.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jon




So, just tried this process with wlp002. Problems.

I cant work out what is yeast. All of it? None of it?

After 1 min:





after 10ish mins:





There is never any visible 3rd layer- clearish at the top, and what is either yeast or trub, or a combination thereof below.

Shook the absolute crap out of it for 5 mins beforehand to try to break up the clumps. I also diluted it further as i read that might help. Current mix is approx 1 quarter slurry, 3 quarters water. Might dilute further as my next step...


----------



## BigDaddy

stef said:


> So, just tried this process with wlp002. Problems.
> 
> I cant work out what is yeast. All of it? None of it?
> 
> After 1 min:
> 
> View attachment 47627
> 
> 
> after 10ish mins:
> 
> View attachment 47628
> 
> 
> 
> There is never any visible 3rd layer- clearish at the top, and what is either yeast or trub, or a combination thereof below.
> 
> Shook the absolute crap out of it for 5 mins beforehand to try to break up the clumps. I also diluted it further as i read that might help. Current mix is approx 1 quarter slurry, 3 quarters water. Might dilute further as my next step...



I had a similar experience today with WLP 029 German Ale/Kolsch - looked almost identical to yours so I threw it in the fridge for a while and it separated out to 3 layers...enough to proceed anyways.....ended up with about 1/2 the amount I usually do.

It was the first time using this yeast, I think a lot of the speckled material in mine was also cold break from my plate chiller??? Was your wort chilled or no chilled??


----------



## stef

No chilled.

So did you shake it up then wack it in fridge straight away? Or fridge after letting it settle (to how it is in pics).

I'll give it a crack anyway. Cheers,

Stef


----------



## going down a hill

Thanks for a great thread Wolfy, just about to rinse a ringwood slurry.


----------



## Yob

bottled friday pitching today!! Gotta luv it, by the time im ready to pitch it (the one on the left) should have settled to something like 
I hope.. possibly a bit left on the yeast percentage slider...

:icon_cheers:


----------



## kalbarluke

Thanks for this great thread. I recently rinsed some us05 from a nelson sauvin ale I made. Kept the yeast in the fridge and made a starter for a kit vesion of Dr Smurto's golden ale. 

Currently fermenting really well. I will continue this method in the future. Thanks again Wolfy.


----------



## Wolfy

iamozziyob said:


> View attachment 48244
> I hope.. possibly a bit left on the yeast percentage slider...


I think you could easily adjust both of those sliders and still have an 'accurate' estimation:
Given that the yeast has been washed, the 'Non Yeast Percentage' should be pretty low (something close to 0).
In addition if you let the yeast settle out and count/pitch/use only the dense slurry at the bottom of your jar (the measuring-tape on the jar is a good idea), the 'Yeast Concentration' should be pretty high (I assume mine is 2.5 billion/ml, but expect that is conservative).


kalbarluke said:


> Currently fermenting really well. I will continue this method in the future. Thanks again Wolfy.


No problems, as you found, it's a quick/easy procedure, so there is no reason why everyone can't try it.


----------



## Yob

As I try to dial in more precicely... had some results recently not especially pleasing but am definatly persisting..

Question relates to Viability date with My Malty

do you take your "harvest date" from when the FV was CC'd or when you have actually taken it from the FV... My latest asumption is that the viability will be more accurate with date taken from when the brew was CC'd? is this correct? 

Harvest should really be from when the yeast were finished or dropped out yeah? Its a big difference in numbers if you drop it back a week or so to a CC date as from for example the day before?

Cheers


----------



## argon

iamozziyob said:


> As I try to dial in more precicely... had some results recently not especially pleasing but am definatly persisting..
> 
> Question relates to Viability date with My Malty
> 
> do you take your "harvest date" from when the FV was CC'd or when you have actually taken it from the FV... My latest asumption is that the viability will be more accurate with date taken from when the brew was CC'd? is this correct?
> 
> Harvest should really be from when the yeast were finished or dropped out yeah? Its a big difference in numbers if you drop it back a week or so to a CC date as from for example the day before?
> 
> Cheers



Good question. For me, I would assume the date of production to be the date of last activity, IE the day you CC'd the beer. Otherwise the yeast is just sitting in there building up reserves and pretty much doing nothing, losing viability over time.


----------



## Yob

Yeah mate that was what I was kinda assuming... I think that may be where Ive gone wrong the last couple of brews.. 10-15ml of compact yeast is quite alot of defference in a pitch..

Cheers


----------



## wobbly

I have tried this process on a Nottingham yeast and for the life of me I cann't get/see "three" interfaces.

I get a top layer of water then a common large layer with no colour differentiation however the very bottom (5 or 6mm) has settled out very compact just like Nottingham does in the bottom of the fermenter. This is about after a couple of hours settling.

So my question is which should I be chucking/keeping the thinner "middle Layer" or the thicker "bottom layer"

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## cdbrown

Ditch the top layer, keep the middle, ditch the bottom layer. If it drops out then there's a good chance it will do that very early in your beer too. Although - a couple of hours is a fair time to wait - normally after 30-45mins you should be able to remove the unwanted layers.


----------



## Yob

wobbly said:


> I have tried this process on a Nottingham yeast and for the life of me I cann't get/see "three" interfaces.
> 
> I get a top layer of water then a common large layer with no colour differentiation however the very bottom (5 or 6mm) has settled out very compact just like Nottingham does in the bottom of the fermenter. This is about after a couple of hours settling.
> 
> So my question is which should I be chucking/keeping the thinner "middle Layer" or the thicker "bottom layer"
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Wobbly




it can also sometimes mean that there isnt enough water in the solution to achieve a good seperation, you can empty half the total to a new sterile container and top up with cooled boiled water to see if it helps.

Yob


----------



## going down a hill

Do you AG or kit brew? If you kit brew your trub might not be so textured because it was removed by the manufacturer.


----------



## wobbly

No I AG and use a 20lt Brumeister and a hop sock 

The wort into the fermenter is "soooo clear" that it appears as though very little trub is carried across.

I use an immersion chiller and get down to around 35C and then leave it sit in a fermenter over night before racking to a second fermenter airate with an air stone and then pitch yeast and in this particular brew I used two packets of Nottingham and fermented at 15C

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## Malted

going down a hill said:


> Do you AG or kit brew? If you kit brew your trub might not be so textured because it was removed by the manufacturer.




Nyuck nyuck nyuck, see if the manufacturer removed the trub when you use dried malt extract....


----------



## Yob

3 layers? pfffff




:lol: - Viability date will be taken from end of ferment date (not harvest) and we'll just see if I cant get on top of these pitching rates <_< 

this one was a 3rd use US-05 that completely finished in 3 days... pitching to FG.. lol

Yob


----------



## Malted

iamozziyob said:


> 3 layers? pfffff


Is this what I am seeing? (From bottom up)
Hops
Trub
Yeast
Beer


----------



## Yob

this was my "backup" harvest just in case I didnt get enough with the first harvest bottle... so was a little more toward the end of the liter I added to the FV and was left for longer than usual and this happened while I was rinsing the other lot inside... awww pretty :lol: I ended up rinsing that lot too and collected about 100ml (thick yeast) of the delicous "2" layer yeast (from the top)... 

I want to wait a few weeks and see how it's parent brew tastes so by then I will probably need the 100ml or a starter. 

Here is a pic of my harvesting arsenal, recent inclusion is the big old square 2lt one for $2 at a local OP Shop  



Arsenal 
$2 :beerbang: 
Final Collected Yeast 

Yob


----------



## Yob

I have read the Yeast book etc, but there seems to me to be a missing link in what I understand..

Q:

Example, Brew has just reached FG..

for accurate repitching/rinsing Its *essential* to know when the viability date is and I would take that as being when FG is reached, maybe + few days? That being the case is this the best time to harvest the yeast and re-pitch?

Previously I have been CC'ing on the cake and then harvesting but I am looking to refine that to repitching within a day or two of FG then harvest at optimum viability so...

I would assume that when FG is reached any yeast in suspension is largly responsibe for that cleaning action? 

If I rack and harvest at this point I kinda recognise that Im selecting for the most flocculent yeast at *that point *and leaving behind the yeast thats better at cleaning up??

I dunno, I just get confused at that point and cant seem to make my mind up as to when is the best time to harvest the best yeast... 

Top cropping aside..

Ive had a few so if that doesnt have logic... please explain.. at what point do you harvest?

:icon_cheers:


----------



## Thefatdoghead

iamozziyob said:


> I have read the Yeast book etc, but there seems to me to be a missing link in what I understand..
> 
> Q:
> 
> Example, Brew has just reached FG..
> 
> for accurate repitching/rinsing Its *essential* to know when the viability date is and I would take that as being when FG is reached, maybe + few days? That being the case is this the best time to harvest the yeast and re-pitch?
> 
> Previously I have been CC'ing on the cake and then harvesting but I am looking to refine that to repitching within a day or two of FG then harvest at optimum viability so...
> 
> I would assume that when FG is reached any yeast in suspension is largly responsibe for that cleaning action?
> 
> If I rack and harvest at this point I kinda recognise that Im selecting for the most flocculent yeast at *that point *and leaving behind the yeast thats better at cleaning up??
> 
> I dunno, I just get confused at that point and cant seem to make my mind up as to when is the best time to harvest the best yeast...
> 
> Top cropping aside..
> 
> Ive had a few so if that doesnt have logic... please explain.. at what point do you harvest?
> 
> :icon_cheers:



I read that book and from what I could gather is that the best time to harvest is when the yeast is at it's peak i.e top cropping would be better than after the yeast has flocculated. Although I read it a few months ago and I very well could be wrong.


----------



## Yob

iamozziyob said:


> Top cropping aside..



dude... the question is more about the time of selection from what I have not an 'ideal world scenario'

Cheers though


----------



## Dazza88

I have harvested yeast from my last 6 brews:

How much improvement do you hope to see from changing: "Previously I have been CC'ing on the cake and then harvesting."

I do that or rack to secondary to harvest without much notice of fg day, since i have begun harvesting I am happy with the results every time iirc.


----------



## the_new_darren

Great work there. Just ensure that you dont harvest a mutated strain or wild yeast.

I would suggest only using liquid yeasts 2-3 times

tnd


----------



## Yob

DazDog said:


> How much improvement do you hope to see from changing: "Previously I have been CC'ing on the cake and then harvesting."



The time it takes to CC I could have the next brew almost to FG again... I hope to speed up the process... as a man who has just ran out of (conditioned) beer I feel it to be important h34r:


----------



## psytramp

i harvest my yeast after 1 week as i have a conical. i have always had a good result so far.

cheers!!


----------



## [email protected]

iamozziyob said:


> The time it takes to CC I could have the next brew almost to FG again... I hope to speed up the process... as a man who has just ran out of (conditioned) beer I feel it to be important h34r:



I cant relate to your situation yob as i rarely want to use the same yeast twice in a row. I do what you used to do, conditioning in primary then bottle / keg.
How long this process takes depends on the beer and yeast used. I then wash the yeast down to a small and pretty clean sample which i store in as close to sterile container as i can get for later use in a starter.

But i see what your saying in regards to speeding up your production process. I too sometimes get impatient when im CCing a brew in what is also my ferment fridge(get another fridge? that aint gunna happen haha) and yeah if you rack at FG then you will be leaving behind the less flocculant yeast (that clean up and possibly more attenuation ) and if you keep doing this after a few gen you might have trouble hitting FG targets.

If i wanted to use the same yeast - after FG wait a couple of days for yeast to do their business at ferment temps, then drop temp to as low as possible for couple days(i go minus 1) then rack for further cold conditioning pref in keg and harvest your yeast for reuse. I think at this stage your selection should be pretty good for quite a few generations. 
I see it as no different to fermenting a starter and cold crashing it to just use the slurry, which is all i ever do for starting a brew and my lag times are 8 to 10hours max and always a healthy ferment.


----------



## pimpsqueak

A few months ago I harvested and washed some 1272. Seemed to go ok and I ended up with a nice compact, slightly off-white layer of yeast with no discernable trub under nice clean, boiled water.
Got it into a starter last night but this morning I had a bit of a sniff and it smells mighty vegemitey to me. This is autolysis, right?
If so, is the starter going to be useless, or should I soldier on?


----------



## manticle

If it smells crap, don't use it. The risk of ruining the beer isn't worth the saving.

If you are attached to the yeast, let it ferment out, decant, rinse again and see what the next starter smells like (personally I'd just kiss it goodbye - 1272 is easy enough to come by) but use something else in this brew.


----------



## phoenixdigital

Wolfy said:


> We want to keep the middle layer since that contains our yeast in suspension. If you do not leave it long enough you will still have trub mixed in, but if you leave it too long the more floculant yeast will have settled out. The process is a bit of trial-and-error, but by careful observation it's not too hard.



All the more reason to keep the middle layer of yeast.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/17/science/...amp;ref=science

You dont want to be brewing with new forms of multi-cellular life.


----------



## Yob

for the first time in ages I threw a whole trub without risking it... almost threw the whole batch along with it... I cursed and frowned for quite a while... something just wasnt right with the batch I felt, the next morning after botteling I looked at the yeast and again, was darker than normal and... well I dunno, something just not normal.

It was a batch that had an unknown quantum as I was away and the power was out so was uncontrolled... I just felt it was better not to take the risk and pitch a fresh lot.

a batch of beer isnt just the cost of the yeast and grains and hops, it's (for me) the time and emotional involvement as well and I dont want to run the risks of successive brews on a bad batch of cheap yeast.

not to mention risking my favorite fermenter with a serious infection


----------



## ASYLUM_SPIRIT

Ok I think I have almost got the Rinsing Yeast procedure down pat, however I just have one more question if I may just to clarify somthing I'm unsure of.

Where it states "Once the yeast has been rinsed and settled to form a thick compact layer of yeast-slurry (if it is viable and healthy) 50 to 100ml should be adequate for pitching into the next batch of beer"

So all I need for the entire brew is to pitch 50 -100ml of the creamy yeast?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Wolfy

ASYLUM_SPIRIT said:


> So all I need for the entire brew is to pitch 50 -100ml of the creamy yeast?


The technical reason/answer to your question can likely be found here: http://www.wyeastlab.com/com-yeast-harvest.cfm (or in the 'Yeast' book).

However, for simplicity, when I re-pitch washed yeast I assume that each 100ml contains 250billion yeast cells.
This is based on the assumption that the yeast is fresh and the slurry measured a thick settled layer on the bottom with no additional trub.

The number of cells recommended for your beer can be estimated by the MrMalty calculator, but based on the assumptions mentioned above, that should be between 50 and 100ml of washed yeast slurry (for most standard batches of Ale).


----------



## ASYLUM_SPIRIT

Wolfy said:


> The technical reason/answer to your question can likely be found here: http://www.wyeastlab.com/com-yeast-harvest.cfm (or in the 'Yeast' book).
> 
> However, for simplicity, when I re-pitch washed yeast I assume that each 100ml contains 250billion yeast cells.
> This is based on the assumption that the yeast is fresh and the slurry measured a thick settled layer on the bottom with no additional trub.
> 
> The number of cells recommended for your beer can be estimated by the MrMalty calculator, but based on the assumptions mentioned above, that should be between 50 and 100ml of washed yeast slurry (for most standard batches of Ale).




Thanks mate I will follow the links!!


----------



## Yob

also, when using Mr Malty, you need to plug in your "harvest date" to determine viability... This is not always when the yeast is "actually" harvested... in essence, its when the yeast were lest active, for me it's usually 2 weeks prior to actually harvesting it, as in the 3 week cycle, loosely, 1 week to ferment, 1 week to condition, 1 week to cold condition. So at the end of cold conditioning I will plug in 2 weeks prior as my harvest date. 

Not knowing this the first few times, I got it wrong I think and the beer suffered a bit for it. 

Live and Learn.

Yob

ed: clarity


----------



## hando

Hey Guys,

I used this method to reuse my yeast WLP830. 

Some differences I've noticed are that the amount of yeast I collected was so small compared with the thick layer in Wolfy's photos. I've stored it in a White labs test tube, and the amount of yeast settled in there is approx. 1/4 teaspoon.

Secondly, when I've reused it in 2 subsequent brews I noticed that the beer was cloudy, even after filtering. I'm still doing K&K at this stage and I doubt it's chill haze. I'm thinking that the cloudiness is from the yeast, and that the yeast which I "selected" when harvesting, was the less flocculant yeast, and that's causing the cloudiness.

When making the starter on the stir plate in about 2litres of wort, I've noticed that after turning the stir plate off and waiting a couple of hours there was a cloudy mixture throughout the starter with only 3-5mm of unclouded liquid at the top, and only a very fine dusting of yeast at the bottom. 

Does that sound normal? Anyone got any input would be fantastic.
Cheers


----------



## Yob

hando said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I used this method to reuse my yeast WLP830.
> 
> Some differences I've noticed are that the amount of yeast I collected was so small compared with the thick layer in Wolfy's photos. I've stored it in a White labs test tube, and the amount of yeast settled in there is approx. 1/4 teaspoon.
> 
> Secondly, when I've reused it in 2 subsequent brews I noticed that the beer was cloudy, even after filtering. I'm still doing K&K at this stage and I doubt it's chill haze. I'm thinking that the cloudiness is from the yeast, and that the yeast which I "selected" when harvesting, was the less flocculant yeast, and that's causing the cloudiness.
> 
> Cheers



how thick was the trub you were rinsing? A trub that is quite thick in solution will not let you see the propper separation. This can lead you to select only the least flocculent yeast in solution which could lead to your second issue.

When rinsing you should have about 4 x rinsing water over whatever volume of slurry you are rinsing, I often find that if I've got too thick a slurry the separation is not all that evident after 20 mins, so will split again into 2 vessels and go again, normally this is enough to get it right. 

Here is a link to the BN Podcast on Rinsing Yeast LINKY If you have a spare hour have a listen as it's very informative and helps with understanding. They discuss what happens when less flocculent yeast is selected and quite sounds like your problem.

Hope this helps

Yob


----------



## Newbee(r)

iamozziyob said:


> how thick was the trub you were rinsing? A trub that is quite thick in solution will not let you see the propper separation. This can lead you to select only the least flocculent yeast in solution which could lead to your second issue.
> 
> When rinsing you should have about 4 x rinsing water over whatever volume of slurry you are rinsing, I often find that if I've got too thick a slurry the separation is not all that evident after 20 mins, so will split again into 2 vessels and go again, normally this is enough to get it right.
> 
> Here is a link to the BN Podcast on Rinsing Yeast LINKY If you have a spare hour have a listen as it's very informative and helps with understanding. They discuss what happens when less flocculent yeast is selected and quite sounds like your problem.
> 
> Hope this helps
> 
> Yob




Interested in whether people are growing starters and then harvesting and storing rather than post fermentation harvest and rinsing? I have been doing this for a while, just bottled a dozen 75 ml jars with Ringwood. Is there any issues doing it this way I need to be aware of? Also, curious about length of viability for these in the fridge - have seen somewhere 3 months?


----------



## Swanstar

Thanks Wolfy,

Very good and informative thread, I've been harvesting my yeast cakes for a while but haven't been rinsing and I've found that it tends not to last very long even in the fridge, will be trying this tonight.

Cheers,


Swanny


----------



## Wolfy

Newbee(r) said:


> Interested in whether people are growing starters and then harvesting and storing rather than post fermentation harvest and rinsing? I have been doing this for a while, just bottled a dozen 75 ml jars with Ringwood. Is there any issues doing it this way I need to be aware of? Also, curious about length of viability for these in the fridge - have seen somewhere 3 months?


I do both, combined with storage on slants and freezing - what I use all depends on the situation.

Reusing the yeast from a previous batch - after rinsing it - is a great way to build up a large number of yeast cells for a lager, strong beer or large batch.

If you have the equipment for storing small samples of yeast (lab-type vials), I see no benefit to splitting and storing a starter, however it is useful if storing the yeast in stubbies, and so can be done without any special containers. I've found that storing washed yeast (which would be the same as a split-starter) keeps it viable for 3-6 months, maybe up to 12 but after that it's usually dead.

If storing yeast I prefer it to be as 'pristine' as possible so (when using a smack-pack or new vial) that's directly out of the pack - simply split the pack into 10 or 15ml sterile vials as soon as it's opened. This way there are as few 'yeast handling' steps as possible, since each has the possibility of introducing contamination, infection or mutation (more chance for this if you make a starter before storing the yeast).

Obviously you need to make a starter in either case (split new-pack or split starter) so having a larger quantity of yeast - from the split starter - is of no real advantage IMHO.

The only time that I store washed slurry for a long period is if there was something interesting about the yeast that I wish to retain. I have reused a recultured Coopers yeast strain in this way for a few years now, because I like what it does and feel it is a 'quick fermenting' strain. However in this case I'm happy for the yeast to change or mutate over time, which is not something that you normally want.


----------



## Yob

Newbee(r) said:


> Also, curious about length of viability for these in the fridge - have seen somewhere 3 months?


 

if you have a play with mr malty and play with the dates (for slurry) it gives a viability, the older the yeast the more the viability drops


----------



## Newbee(r)

Wolfy, Yob, thanks for the advice, most appreciated. If I can get up to 6 months I'll be stoked, I brew once a fortnight on average so this means a few vials to friends and the rest will get used up rather than go to waste. Will definitely have a play with the Mr Malty calculator. 

Cheers

J


----------



## Guysmiley54

I'm sure this has been answered but I can't seem to find it...

If you store into vials straight from the pack, do you still "smack" it? or will the nutrients be better left out of it?

Cheers :icon_cheers:


----------



## hando

iamozziyob said:


> how thick was the trub you were rinsing? A trub that is quite thick in solution will not let you see the propper separation. This can lead you to select only the least flocculent yeast in solution which could lead to your second issue.
> 
> When rinsing you should have about 4 x rinsing water over whatever volume of slurry you are rinsing, I often find that if I've got too thick a slurry the separation is not all that evident after 20 mins, so will split again into 2 vessels and go again, normally this is enough to get it right.
> 
> Here is a link to the BN Podcast on Rinsing Yeast LINKY If you have a spare hour have a listen as it's very informative and helps with understanding. They discuss what happens when less flocculent yeast is selected and quite sounds like your problem.
> 
> Hope this helps
> 
> Yob



It was standard thickness I suppose. It certainly thinned out after I added the water to it and swished it about! When i did the process, I waited the 20 minutes each time with the solutions in the fridge, and the water I added was (boiled &) chilled straight from the fridge too. Do you think the fact that it was cold fridge temps caused the majority of the flocculant yeast to drop out?

BN podcast fantastic too thanks!


----------



## Yob

hando said:


> It was standard thickness I suppose. It certainly thinned out after I added the water to it and swished it about! When i did the process, I waited the 20 minutes each time with the solutions in the fridge, and the water I added was (boiled &) chilled straight from the fridge too. Do you think the fact that it was cold fridge temps caused the majority of the flocculant yeast to drop out?
> 
> BN podcast fantastic too thanks!



certainly wont help with keeping them in solution, being at those temps will encourage them to floc quite quickly... I usually rinse at room temps to help keep them in solution a bit longer and then right into the fridge after separation.

So similar to Wolfy's initial post, I put about 800ml into the FV at room temp, wait a little and off to the jar(s) for further dilution, the whole process takes a few hours if Im being anal about it.... which I usually am  When I think Ive got the required amount of yeast I then put them into the fridge so I can work out how much compact yeast I have... often I end up combining a few jars to get to 100ml in each jar which makes for easy maths when it comes to repitching.

Yob


----------



## stux

Guysmiley54 said:


> I'm sure this has been answered but I can't seem to find it...
> 
> If you store into vials straight from the pack, do you still "smack" it? or will the nutrients be better left out of it?
> 
> Cheers :icon_cheers:



I've tried both. I get better results NOT smacking the pack. I keep my nutrient packs for tossing in starters


----------



## hando

Looks like I'll be modifying my method next time. Thanks Yob.


----------



## sama

never used wyeast but will be doing shortly (allways used whitelabs).How much yeasty liquid (without smacking nutrient pouch) is there in a wyeast pouch? Says 125ml on pack tho that includes nutrient.


----------



## Truman42

I pulled my slurry from a 17 litre batch I bottled last night. After leaving it the fridge over night here is what I ended up with.

Surely this wouldnt be all yeast? It was only 1 packet of US05 in a 17 lite batch. It started at 1.064 and finished at 1.012


----------



## Muscovy_333

Truman said:


> I pulled my slurry from a 17 litre batch I bottled last night. After leaving it the fridge over night here is what I ended up with.
> 
> Surely this wouldnt be all yeast? It was only 1 packet of US05 in a 17 lite batch. It started at 1.064 and finished at 1.012
> View attachment 53917




Most of it would be yeast troy, but most of it will also be dead!
The viable yeast will be white and milky and stay in solution longer at room temp, hence why it forms different layers on settling. 

When i harvest i do not refrigerate at all at any point until i have rinsed and seperated. otherwise the viable stuff drops out of solution and is more difficult to recover. 


If you follow Wolfy's instructions at room temp step by step you will get what you want. It takes a little trial and error the first couple of times..


----------



## Truman42

I did initially leave it at room temp for a few hours but it looked the same as in that photo. I shook it up 2 -3 times and kept an eye on it for it to separate into the three layers but it didn't. So I put it in the fridge overnight to see if it made a difference.


----------



## donburke

last night i kegged a beer that i had used wy1768

after i finished, i tipped 1.5 litres of preboiled water into the fermenter and swirled it for a few minutes, then decanted the solution to flask

after about 15 minutes i had 3 layers, but the yeast was at the bottom and trub in the middle, and clear wort on top

the bottom layer was white and creamy, the middle layer was green/brown 

i only kept the bottom layer, as it what most resembled yeast 

i should have taken a photo, but i assure you, the stuff in the middle did not resemble yeast, whilst the bottom definitely did

has anyone ever experienced this with this particular yeast strain or did i toss the wrong bit out ?


----------



## kelbygreen

I have not tried this yet. But wonder how do you tip the layers out?? wouldnt they start to mix back together when you tip it up?


----------



## Yob

Truman said:


> I did initially leave it at room temp for a few hours but it looked the same as in that photo. I shook it up 2 -3 times and kept an eye on it for it to separate into the three layers but it didn't. So I put it in the fridge overnight to see if it made a difference.



Your Trub to Water ratio is too thick...

put 200ml into a jar.. Trub should equal MAXIMUM 1/3 of the total rinsing volume, I find 1/4 is better

The taller the jar the better, those V8 jars are awesome..

If it's too thick you will not get the separation and you need to dilute further.

Just as a little experiment scoop a teaspoon of the trub into a BIG jar and half fill it with tap water, swirl/shake and see what happens

Big Jars + small trub = better separation.

ed: in that Photo Truman you have about 3 x too much trub for a jar that size.

Here is the separation I got with 200ml of slurry into 800ml of rinsing water.

LINKY


----------



## Yob

kelbygreen said:


> I have not tried this yet. But wonder how do you tip the layers out?? wouldnt they start to mix back together when you tip it up?



if you do it slowly you can see when the trub starts to pick up... slowly slowly is the key.

You (I) stop pouring when the trub gets near to the neck of the jar, thats why I like the V8 jars as they narrow to the top quite sharply and it's easy to stop when you see the trub getting close.

Yob


----------



## Truman42

iamozziyob said:


> Your Trub to Water ratio is too thick...
> 
> put 200ml into a jar.. Trub should equal MAXIMUM 1/3 of the total rinsing volume, I find 1/4 is better
> 
> The taller the jar the better, those V8 jars are awesome..
> 
> If it's too thick you will not get the separation and you need to dilute further.
> 
> Just as a little experiment scoop a teaspoon of the trub into a BIG jar and half fill it with tap water, swirl/shake and see what happens
> 
> Big Jars + small trub = better separation.
> 
> ed: in that Photo Truman you have about 3 x too much trub for a jar that size.
> 
> Here is the separation I got with 200ml of slurry into 800ml of rinsing water.
> 
> LINKY



Cheers mate will give that a try. So in your photo from top to bottom is that 

WORT
HEALTHY YEAST
DEAD YEAST
TRUB


----------



## cdbrown

Truman said:


> I pulled my slurry from a 17 litre batch I bottled last night. After leaving it the fridge over night here is what I ended up with.
> 
> Surely this wouldnt be all yeast? It was only 1 packet of US05 in a 17 lite batch. It started at 1.064 and finished at 1.012
> View attachment 53917



Was the yeast cake still cool from the brew being cold conditioned? All the yeast, break and hops will drop quite quick if it's cold so you need to have it at 20c , shake and then see the layers after about 15mins. Like has been said - split that across two jars and top up with water and then give it a shake. If you still don't get fairly clear layers split and dilute again.

Don - not seen the yeast on the bottom before - did you add any fining agent which may be dropping the yeast out before the rest of the trub? Hopefully it's not the early floccing yeast you have saved.


----------



## Yob

Truman said:


> Cheers mate will give that a try. So in your photo from top to bottom is that
> 
> WORT
> HEALTHY YEAST
> DEAD YEAST
> TRUB



From Bottom up

Bottom Layer (Denser Material) = Hops
Next Layer up = Trub (Less dense material)
Next Layer up = Viable Yeast
Top Layer = Diluted Wort.

The denser the material the quicker it will sink...

that particular jar (as per the post it was from) was left for a fair while as I'd finished rinsing and went onto other things... I was surprised at the time with the separation into 4 layers..

gawd it's perdy though  

ed: added the photo for clarity




Yob


----------



## Truman42

cdbrown said:


> Was the yeast cake still cool from the brew being cold conditioned? All the yeast, break and hops will drop quite quick if it's cold so you need to have it at 20c , shake and then see the layers after about 15mins. Like has been said - split that across two jars and top up with water and then give it a shake. If you still don't get fairly clear layers split and dilute again.
> 
> Don - not seen the yeast on the bottom before - did you add any fining agent which may be dropping the yeast out before the rest of the trub? Hopefully it's not the early floccing yeast you have saved.




Yes it was, it was still around 13C when I added 500mls of cooled boiled water. Will make sure I keep that in mind for next time.


----------



## Truman42

How the hell do you guys pour off the wort and keep the yeast? Whenever I try to pour off the wort the layers stay level and as layers so Im also pouring off some of the yeast. Then the same thing happens when I try to pour the yeast into the second jar, I get a layer of trub and yeast flowing out of my jar and into the other.

Maybe I should syphon it off instead.


----------



## kelbygreen

Thats what I thought would happen but this is the reply to my question if you missed it earlier today.



iamozziyob said:


> if you do it slowly you can see when the trub starts to pick up... slowly slowly is the key.
> 
> You (I) stop pouring when the trub gets near to the neck of the jar, thats why I like the V8 jars as they narrow to the top quite sharply and it's easy to stop when you see the trub getting close.
> 
> Yob


----------



## SJW

Truman said:


> How the hell do you guys pour off the wort and keep the yeast? Whenever I try to pour off the wort the layers stay level and as layers so Im also pouring off some of the yeast. Then the same thing happens when I try to pour the yeast into the second jar, I get a layer of trub and yeast flowing out of my jar and into the other.
> 
> Maybe I should syphon it off instead.


I am not sure you need to rinse the yeast anyway. For years I just added some filtered water to the trub, swirled it around and let it sit for 5 mins, then run it off into 500ml swing tops. The on brew day just pour off the wort and add new wort , shake and pitch. With Lager yeast's I would make a starter to build it up a bit.
Saying that, I did try this method and it works great with two 1 litre plastic milk bottles. Nice and tall and a small neck to see when the trub comes to the top.

Steve


----------



## kelbygreen

I made a coopers clone (double batch) the first one I got 3 stubbies and 800ml of wort made a starter then tipped the liquid off and made another 1lt starter and pitched that yeast. I fermented at 18deg I got banana flavour and aroma threw the whole ferment but it died off fast when done (9 days later). I then tipped the next brew straight in had it still set to 18 it went nuts first few days no banana at all, checked gravity on day 4 and it was lower then the previous batch I let it go for 2 more days no gravity change so chilled and kegged no sign of banana threw the whole ferment. 

So I thought at the start people complaining about the banana and thought wonder if it was from underpitching??? I guess I proved that, also to start off with I had 20lts of wort, used 3 bottles of yeast (says 2 in the instructions), Used 800ml starter (says 600ml) and I drained that and done another 1lt starter so should of been heaps more yeast then what then I would of got following the culture post.

Bit OT but something to think about when making yeast starters!


----------



## Truman42

kelbygreen said:


> Thats what I thought would happen but this is the reply to my question if you missed it earlier today.




Thats my problem, I need to get hold of some decent jars with narrow necks. The 5 litre demi john I use seems to keep the layers along its tapered neck up to the outlet so its hard to pour out just the yeast without trub.


----------



## [email protected]

Truman said:


> Thats my problem, I need to get hold of some decent jars with narrow necks. The 5 litre demi john I use seems to keep the layers along its tapered neck up to the outlet so its hard to pour out just the yeast without trub.



As yob said, V8 Juice bottles are good. I bought 2 X 1.5L forced myself to drink the crap and been using the same ones for almost a year.
I put boiling hot water and wort in them, then no chill them. Always slowly bring them up to hot temps and down to cold as they would be very susceptible to breaking under extremes.
But they are also just a very good size and shape for rinsing yeast.


----------



## Truman42

Beer4U said:


> I put boiling hot water and wort in them, then no chill them. Always slowly bring them up to hot temps and down to cold as they would be very susceptible to breaking under extremes.




So can you pour boiling water into them? Your second sentence seems to contradict the first...


----------



## Midnight Brew

Awesome seperation there Yob. The proof is in the pudding!




iamozziyob said:


> From Bottom up
> 
> Bottom Layer (Denser Material) = Hops
> Next Layer up = Trub (Less dense material)
> Next Layer up = Viable Yeast
> Top Layer = Diluted Wort.
> 
> The denser the material the quicker it will sink...
> 
> that particular jar (as per the post it was from) was left for a fair while as I'd finished rinsing and went onto other things... I was surprised at the time with the separation into 4 layers..
> 
> gawd it's perdy though
> 
> ed: added the photo for clarity
> 
> View attachment 53923
> 
> 
> Yob


----------



## [email protected]

Truman said:


> So can you pour boiling water into them? Your second sentence seems to contradict the first...



Yes - i mean that you dont want to go filling them with boiling water or wort when they are at a low ambient temp.
For example after cleaning with hot tap water (comes out around 55degress) and napisan then i rinse with a small amount of my boiling water
they are good to go. I tip wort straight off the boil into them then cover with foil. 
For safety reason incase a breakage does happen i do it in the sink.
All this could be avoided buying some proper flasks, but i am cheap and as isaid the V8 bottles have served me well for some time.
Saying that they will probably break on me some time soon, so i might update with some new bottles which means drinking more juice :angry:


----------



## Truman42

Beer4U said:


> Yes - i mean that you dont want to go filling them with boiling water or wort when they are at a low ambient temp.
> For example after cleaning with hot tap water (comes out around 55degress) and napisan then i rinse with a small amount of my boiling water
> they are good to go. I tip wort straight off the boil into them then cover with foil.
> For safety reason incase a breakage does happen i do it in the sink.
> All this could be avoided buying some proper flasks, but i am cheap and as isaid the V8 bottles have served me well for some time.
> Saying that they will probably break on me some time soon, so i might update with some new bottles which means drinking more juice :angry:



Ok thanks, Im with you now. I have a 1 and 2 litre flask and use them too. But need more to wash and seperate back and forth, so a couple of juice bottles will do nicely.


----------



## Dazza88

donburke said:


> last night i kegged a beer that i had used wy1768
> 
> after i finished, i tipped 1.5 litres of preboiled water into the fermenter and swirled it for a few minutes, then decanted the solution to flask
> 
> after about 15 minutes i had 3 layers, but the yeast was at the bottom and trub in the middle, and clear wort on top
> 
> the bottom layer was white and creamy, the middle layer was green/brown
> 
> i only kept the bottom layer, as it what most resembled yeast
> 
> i should have taken a photo, but i assure you, the stuff in the middle did not resemble yeast, whilst the bottom definitely did
> 
> has anyone ever experienced this with this particular yeast strain or did i toss the wrong bit out ?




I think i am getting this tonight with w3787, the creamy layer is on the bottom?


----------



## [email protected]

DazDog said:


> I think i am getting this tonight with w3787, the creamy layer is on the bottom?
> 
> View attachment 54465
> 
> View attachment 54466



What temperature is it at? You have condensation on the glassware which leads me to believe its cold?

Should be rinsed at ferment temps and 3787 loves to be warm.

EDIT: If i am wrong i am sorry i dont know why. If its cold, i would let it sit at 20 degrees overnight then pour off all that beery/water and add some more pre boiled cooled water and try again.

EDIT2: Give it a real good swirling too, like for 5 mins or so


----------



## Dazza88

Yeah cold and will b leaving the jars out tonite try again tomorro. Forgot about them in da fridge.


----------



## Yob

Ive recently removed the STC from my CC fridge as I want to use the freezer to store my hops, SWMBO is delighted to have some space back in the 'food fridge', getting the setting on the fridge right is a bit tricky and it wants to freeze everything solid.. with a shitty temp probe against the FV I clocked it at -3.7'c :blink: 




This is what im getting after the FV being out of the fridge for about 12 hours and next time I will take it out the night before to see if I cant get the 'plug' melted in time for racking.




There shouldnt be a problem with rinsing yeast that has had a ice cube sat in a small section overnight?

:icon_cheers:


----------



## iralosavic

This is what I collected from my fermenter after about 30 minutes in the fridge. No sign of any separation. There's LOTS of hop sediment. Will this all clear up and segment in time?


----------



## mwd

I don't think so. Looks a lot like mine when I have used a lot of hops never seems to seperate out into layers. I ended up just dumping the lot crud and all into the next brew.


----------



## iralosavic

Tropical_Brews said:


> I don't think so. Looks a lot like mine when I have used a lot of hops never seems to seperate out into layers. I ended up just dumping the lot crud and all into the next brew.



Bummer. I can't do that, as the crud is burnt, hence why I had planed to wash the yeast to save at least one of the costs.


----------



## Bongchitis

iralosavic said:


> This is what I collected from my fermenter after about 30 minutes in the fridge. No sign of any separation. There's LOTS of hop sediment. Will this all clear up and segment in time?




G'Day mate,

It looks very thick to me and a few guys that have had separation issues were advised to dilute with water. Also you have it in the fridge, I think that the separations of those who have been succesful have done it at room temp.... then collect the yeast layer.... then crash chill post washing.

Worked for me.


----------



## [email protected]

Bongchitis said:


> G'Day mate,
> 
> It looks very thick to me and a few guys that have had separation issues were advised to dilute with water. Also you have it in the fridge, I think that the separations of those who have been succesful have done it at room temp.... then collect the yeast layer.... then crash chill post washing.
> 
> Worked for me.



Exactamundo its way to thick, looks almost solid


----------



## iralosavic

Ok. I'll dilute it further and bring to room temp. Cheers. (It's actually more diluted than you'd think. I added about a litre of sterile water to the yeast cake and collected two jars worth).


----------



## Yob

iralosavic said:


> Ok. I'll dilute it further and bring to room temp. Cheers. (It's actually more diluted than you'd think. I added about a litre of sterile water to the yeast cake and collected two jars worth).



With that jar size I would have about 1/3 of that amount... waaaaay too thick to get separation. Tall skinny jars work better. 

V8 jars are the bomb. 1/4 of the bottle slurry and top up with 800ml cooled boiled water. Collect as much as you can without collecting the trub. Those big mason jars you get from almost any $2 store are great for running off into.

Rinse and repeat... always repeat





Yob


----------



## iralosavic

iamozziyob said:


> With that jar size I would have about 1/3 of that amount... waaaaay too thick to get separation. Tall skinny jars work better.
> 
> V8 jars are the bomb. 1/4 of the bottle slurry and top up with 800ml cooled boiled water. Collect as much as you can without collecting the trub. Those big mason jars you get from almost any $2 store are great for running off into.
> 
> Rinse and repeat... always repeat
> 
> View attachment 54807
> 
> 
> Yob




If I were able to drink the juice from one of those jars, I'd buy them, but I cannot. I'm on a challenge diet (food intolerances). I haven't seen any tall skinney jars in my travels... My mason jars are crap - they don't seal properly - hence the foil over the lids.


----------



## [email protected]

iamozziyob said:


> Rinse and repeat... always repeat
> 
> View attachment 54808
> 
> 
> Yob



:lol: 

You wish


----------



## Yob

iralosavic said:


> If I were able to drink the juice from one of those jars, I'd buy them, but I cannot. I'm on a challenge diet (food intolerances). I haven't seen any tall skinney jars in my travels... My mason jars are crap - they don't seal properly - hence the foil over the lids.



I dont use the lids either mate, gladwrap and a rubber band.


----------



## Yob

Beer4U said:


> :lol:
> 
> You wish



Are you suggesting that im follicly challenged?

Good Sir, I assure you my locks are as flowing as the River Nile... just very very short :lol:


----------



## [email protected]

iamozziyob said:


> Are you suggesting that im follicly challenged?
> 
> Good Sir, I assure you my locks are as flowing as the River Nile... just very very short :lol:



Never, i was referring more to the scene as whole  but for all i know it could be you most weekends.....


----------



## iralosavic

What about if I combine the two Mason jars' contents into my 5L flask? Or is the base too wide to assist with separation?


----------



## Bongchitis

iralosavic said:


> What about if I combine the two Mason jars' contents into my 5L flask? Or is the base too wide to assist with separation?



Answered your own question there. As mentioned you want the tallest and narrowest jar practicable.


----------



## Yob

iralosavic said:


> If I were able to drink the juice from one of those jars, I'd buy them, but I cannot.



Get the jars, tip the crap out if you need to..IMO having the right tool for the job makes it easier..




The Yeast collection Arsenal.. the two on the right are for collecting, I also have several of each of the sizes to the left.


----------



## iralosavic

Ok point taken. It is only $4. I just hate waste.

I had been thinking of getting a glass cylindrical measuring vessle before this topic came up, now I can see one would be very useful. Very tall and narrow with a pouring spout. The v8 bottle meanwhile will be a good option.

After further dilution and being left at room temp, the mason jars ate showing about 50/50 beer/hops, so still no segmentation including yeast.


----------



## mwd

I use 440ml olive jars from the supermarket they have a screw top that seals so are ideal for storing. Try and put about 250ml of slurry in each one.


----------



## Yob

then it aint thin enough  

even_ just_ as an experiment that is a throw away.. split one of those jars into 3 glasses of variable thickness and add tap water to a control level.. you will see a noticible difference with the separation.. apply this to larger volumes and you are away.

:icon_cheers:


----------



## MaltyHops

Tropical_Brews said:


> I use 440ml olive jars from the supermarket they have a screw top that seals so
> are ideal for storing. Try and put about 250ml of slurry in each one.


Quick everyone, hit the dirt!!! h34r: 

Just kidding but be wary of potential bottle bombs (assuming the jars are glass).
My _collection *arsena*l_.


----------



## mwd

Good point never had one build up pressure yet 4C in the fridge puts the little yeasties to sleep.

P.S. buy homebrand black olives they are cheaper than the others on the shelf.


----------



## Truman42

Okay Im still trying to get this sussed like many of us...

I poured 500ml of water into my fermenter at the end of bottling and tipped this into a jar. After 15 mins here is the result.





Seemed too thick from what Ive read here so I shook the crap out of this and split it into 2 jars and added about 500mls of water to each jar.

After 15 mins the jars looked totally different. The jar on the left had a nice layer of wort, cloudy yeast and a hop and trub layer on the bottom, while the jar on the right seemed to just have wort, hops and trub even though I had shaken up the jar before splitting into two and adding water.

This pic shows both of them the next morning after being in the fridge ovenight. Would you agree there is no yeast in the jar on the right at all?


----------



## mwd

Difficult to tell. From your photos it looks like beer above the yeast not water maybe do another rinse with water. It makes life more difficult if you have a load of hop debris in your fermenter.


----------



## brad81

Hi all,

I have one of these:
http://www.kitchenwaredirect.com.au/Kitche...-Deluxe-1-Litre

Has anyone tried using something like this to first remove the trub, then separate out the yeast? I reckon it might work, but if it doesn't please save me from wasting my time 

Cheers,

Brad


----------



## mwd

I personally don't think it would be much use it just looks like a jug with a filter on top. Fat always floats on top of liquid in a very distinct layer. The filter on the top just catches the big stuff by the looks of it. I would expect all the trub and yeast would just go through the holes even hop debris is very small and would pass straight through IMO.

If you already own one of them you can be the Guinea Pig and try it out. Never know until somebody tries it.

Most of us cheapskates just make use of jars that contained something from the supermarket.


----------



## brad81

Mate, forget the lid.

It's a gravy separator. You pour in your liquid and the oil floats to the top, when you pour, it comes from the bottom of the jug, leaving the oil in the container.

Have another squiz at the link


----------



## glenwal

Tropical_Brews said:


> looks like a jug with a filter on top.


I think the difference is that the spout actually feeds from the bottom of the jug, like a tap, instead of from the top. 

The idea being that fat floats to the top and you pour off from underneath leaving the fat in the jug. Problem there though is that when rinsing yeast, its not the bottom layer that you want and I don't think pouring off the thick trub would really work to well.

Having said that though - there's only 1 way to know for sure.


edit: spelling


----------



## Malted

I use a device like this (meat syringe) that can be disassembled for cleaning and sterilising. It has it's limits in terms of the size of jar you can suck from.


----------



## Yob

Truman said:


> Okay Im still trying to get this sussed like many of us...
> 
> I poured 500ml of water into my fermenter at the end of bottling and tipped this into a jar. After 15 mins here is the result.
> 
> View attachment 54821
> 
> 
> 
> Seemed too thick from what Ive read here so I shook the crap out of this and split it into 2 jars and added about 500mls of water to each jar.
> 
> After 15 mins the jars looked totally different. The jar on the left had a nice layer of wort, cloudy yeast and a hop and trub layer on the bottom, while the jar on the right seemed to just have wort, hops and trub even though I had shaken up the jar before splitting into two and adding water.
> 
> This pic shows both of them the next morning after being in the fridge ovenight. Would you agree there is no yeast in the jar on the right at all?
> 
> View attachment 54822



Both will have yeast in them, you dont have a lot of volume in the jar which will make separation difficult.

From your process above Truman you seem to be still missing one vital part.

500ml of Cooled boiled water into the FV is correct.. instead of colleting a whole jar, the process should be to collect* 1/4 of a jar (or say 200ml) and further dilute* to say 800ml - 1lt and then you will get a decent separation.

All of those liquids look to be fairy un-diluted mate.

Yob


----------



## Truman42

iamozziyob said:


> Both will have yeast in them, you dont have a lot of volume in the jar which will make separation difficult.
> 
> From your process above Truman you seem to be still missing one vital part.
> 
> 500ml of Cooled boiled water into the FV is correct.. instead of colleting a whole jar, the process should be to collect* 1/4 of a jar (or say 200ml) and further dilute* to say 800ml - 1lt and then you will get a decent separation.
> 
> All of those liquids look to be fairy un-diluted mate.
> 
> Yob



Ok so I should be splitting my slurry out of the ferm into 3 or 4 jars with 200mls approx in each and then adding 800-1000mls of water to this? Will give that a try and see how it goes. Thanks heaps.


----------



## Yob

Truman said:


> Ok so I should be splitting my slurry out of the ferm into 3 or 4 jars with 200mls approx in each and then adding 800-1000mls of water to this? Will give that a try and see how it goes. Thanks heaps.



Yes!!!

Thats why the 1.5lt V8 Jars Rock... you can get 300ml-350ml of slurry into them and easily dilute to 1.2lt and get almost a full pitch from a single rinse of the jar... almost... I generally rinse each V8 Jar twice to achieve my harvested yeast of about 100ml compact slurry... depending on how thin the solution is I may need to take a third rinse into a second jar... in fact this happens quite often as I tend to thin mine out quite alot...

I actually stuffed the last one up and only collected 50ml not my usual 100ml because it was too thin.

Yob


----------



## SJW

For those fellas who are still trying to get a grip of this yeast washing thing, just a note, its not nessasary to rinse the yeast until there is just pure yeast and fresh water left. While this is a fine way to preserve the yeast for longer periods, I have done fine for many years by just doing the following.
With a new Wyeast I make sure I am doing a lower type gravity brew for that style and I make sure I do an extra litre or so. After the boil I make sure all the trub has dropped out and only transfer the clear wort to the fermenter. Then when it is done I drain as much beer out as possible, add some cold clear water and swish around and then drian into several swing top 500ml bottles. It does not need to be any harder than that as it makes no difference to the next brews with the same yeast. 
Come brew day, Just tip off the clear and top up with some wort from the next brew before you transfer it to the fermenter and she will be fired up within the hour.

Steve


----------



## MaltyHops

Truman said:


> ...
> This pic shows both of them the next morning after being in the fridge ovenight. ...


I think leaving overnight (esp. in fridge) is too long - and I do all the yeast
rinsing and separation at room temperature and only put into fridge when
all done.

I find that after a good shake of a well diluted trub, it takes about half an
hour for the heavier trub to settle and I separate that from what's still in
suspension at that point, which while will still containing some very fine trub,
will take about 6 to 9 hours to separate into a layer of yeast/fine trub, a 
layer of sill suspended yeast and a layer of clear beer. At that point, the beer
can be poured off and repeat the process depending on how high a yeast to
liquid percentage you want.

TIP - Often I get a layer yeast sitting on a layer of trub under clear beer and
if the beer is gentlyly poured away without stirring the yeast too much, the
yeast can then be stirred up by keeping the jar upright and gently rotating
the jar back and forth.

This will be enough to stir up the layer of yeast without disturbing the trub too
much - the stirred up yeast can then be poured into a another "more refined"
container for final rinsing/refining.


----------



## thylacine

Wolfy,

Thanks for the descriptive yeast reharvesting alternatives you have provided. I really like your 'top cropping' yeast thread. eg. harvesting active, viable yeast without trub; and I suspect ending up with more fermented wort, as one fills the fermenter to 'intentional overflow' levels. Good onya...

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=54164


----------



## Truman42

So I tipped of the beer and added another 600mls of water to each jar. This is what I ended up with the next morning.

So what happened to the hops and trub I had in the previous photos? It looks like I just have yeast thats settled at the bottom and yeast still in suspension??


----------



## Yob

Truman said:


> So I tipped of the beer and added another 600mls of water to each jar. This is what I ended up with the next morning.
> 
> So what happened to the hops and trub I had in the previous photos? It looks like I just have yeast thats settled at the bottom and yeast still in suspension??
> 
> View attachment 54851



A goodly proportion of that will still be trub mate... unless you have separated it... those 600ml's look different to my eye... are you sure of those volumes? You cant have tipped all the beer out of the liquid would be clearer... Not that it matters, just makes eyeing the separartion easier..

tip off the liquid. Fill those damn jars to about 3/4 full and shake. If you say those jars have 600ml in them, 800 ml will fit easy. (trub to water ratio MINIMUM 1 to 4... more is better)

leave for 30 mins (at room temps)

Pour off the liquid from the top into another jar leaving anything that settles or compacts in those 30 mins behind.

Repeat.

Place in fridge to settle.

Get some contact and mark those jars at 50ml increments to enable you to calculate how much compact yeast is in there. (See pictures earlier in thread)

Yob


----------



## bignath

On the right track truman. To me it looks like your nearly there. If it was me, id leave it a bit more time to see if that liquid layer clears up a bit more, then decant it, and add more water. 

Looks like its only a rinse away from being about right.


----------



## Truman42

iamozziyob said:


> A goodly proportion of that will still be trub mate... unless you have separated it... those 600ml's look different to my eye... are you sure of those volumes? You cant have tipped all the beer out of the liquid would be clearer... Not that it matters, just makes eyeing the separartion easier..
> 
> tip off the liquid. Fill those damn jars to about 3/4 full and shake. If you say those jars have 600ml in them, 800 ml will fit easy. (trub to water ratio MINIMUM 1 to 4... more is better)
> 
> leave for 30 mins (at room temps)
> 
> Pour off the liquid from the top into another jar leaving anything that settles or compacts in those 30 mins behind.
> 
> Repeat.
> 
> Place in fridge to settle.
> 
> Get some contact and mark those jars at 50ml increments to enable you to calculate how much compact yeast is in there. (See pictures earlier in thread)
> 
> Yob



I did measure 600mls in each one but the one on the left is a 2 litre goon and on the right is a mason jar which is narrower. And I probably did leave some beer in the jar.

I will give it another crack as you suggest and see how I go. Thanks heaps for the help Yob.


----------



## iralosavic

Thanks for all the advice. I ended up starting things off using a plastic pasta container and then got hold of a tall glass cylinder jar for $2 from kmart when I was there. Both worked a treat and after a lot of separating, chilling, bringing back to room temperature and repeating I ended up with this:







From this, in case you've just tuned in:






According to Mr Malty, I don't really have enough slurry to work with for a decent gravity lager - unless I slide it all the way over to thickest slurry (and while it is very thick, I imagine it could be thicker) - but at least I saved this lot of s189 from the drain and won't have to spend a fortune on things I don't currently need from CB just to justify the shipping cost for their 5kg minimum.


----------



## nala

Malted said:


> I use a device like this (meat syringe) that can be disassembled for cleaning and sterilising. It has it's limits in terms of the size of jar you can suck from.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 54827



Has anyone tried one of these Turkey basters for sucking the layers from the settlement
vessel ?
I bought mine from Red Dot $2 works a treat and very easy to sterilise.
Great thread, amongst the best !


----------



## iralosavic

nala said:


> Has anyone tried one of these Turkey basters for sucking the layers from the settlement
> vessel ?
> I bought mine from Red Dot $2 works a treat and very easy to sterilise.
> Great thread, amongst the best !
> 
> View attachment 54965



You must be working with fairly small volumes. Once diluted, my layer volume would be around 300ml each on average, which would take many runs with a turkey baster. I got my baster form Coles for $2 and it has served me well for sample taking purposes.


----------



## jakethesnake559

Awesome post Wolfy, looks like you have helped soooo many brewers save some cash!!
We all owe you a beer I think :icon_cheers:.

Yesterday I tried harvesting yeast for the first time.
Got 2 nice jars of slurry which separated out into the 3 layers over the course of the day (I was brewing at the same time, so worked out well).
Tipped off the top layer and poured the yeast layers into a separate jars.
Left it overnight and came out this morning to find it had formed 3 layers again (as expected).
But I could see some little balls of yeast starting to separate themselves from the yeast layer and float up into the wort layer (like a lava lamp).

Is this a bad sign?? Or yeast just doing yeasty things?

Anyway, I'm not going to wash it any further, just going to re-pitch one of the jars today (it's a similar brew, so not worried about hop flavour etc).

So can I just shake up the jar and tip it into my fermenter?
And is there any clear way to tell if the yeast is OK (ie. smell?)?

Would appreciate any help/opinions.

Cheers,
Jake.


----------



## Wolfy

jakethesnake559 said:


> But I could see some little balls of yeast starting to separate themselves from the yeast layer and float up into the wort layer (like a lava lamp).
> ...
> Anyway, I'm not going to wash it any further, just going to re-pitch one of the jars today (it's a similar brew, so not worried about hop flavour etc).
> 
> So can I just shake up the jar and tip it into my fermenter?
> And is there any clear way to tell if the yeast is OK (ie. smell?)?


Most likely this is due to some of the yeast still fermenting something and the CO2 making those 'balls' a little more buoyant than the rest of the yeast.
The only real way to tell is to taste it once it has fermented (such as a starter) however if your previous batched turned out fine, and you used (as close to) sterile procedures when washing your yeast, it is unlikely that it would get infected.


----------



## jakethesnake559

Cheers mate.
It's going in  !!
Jake.


----------



## thylacine

jakethesnake559 said:


> Awesome post Wolfy, looks like you have helped soooo many brewers save some cash!!
> We all owe you a beer I think :icon_cheers:.
> 
> Yesterday I tried harvesting yeast for the first time.
> Got 2 nice jars of slurry which separated out into the 3 layers over the course of the day (I was brewing at the same time, so worked out well).
> Tipped off the top layer and poured the yeast layers into a separate jars.
> Left it overnight and came out this morning to find it had formed 3 layers again (as expected).
> But I could see some little balls of yeast starting to separate themselves from the yeast layer and float up into the wort layer (like a lava lamp).
> 
> Is this a bad sign?? Or yeast just doing yeasty things?
> 
> Anyway, I'm not going to wash it any further, just going to re-pitch one of the jars today (it's a similar brew, so not worried about hop flavour etc).
> 
> So can I just shake up the jar and tip it into my fermenter?
> And is there any clear way to tell if the yeast is OK (ie. smell?)?
> 
> 
> Another yeast harvesting technique (link below) I am trying next. eg appears easy to do and results in 'clean', active yeast.
> 
> http://karlisbeer.blogspot.com.au/2010/03/...rom-carboy.html
> 
> Cheers...
> 
> 
> 
> Would appreciate any help/opinions.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jake.


----------



## 7roy

This is a great post, I'm going to try this method with the remains of a lager I just finished, so I will have enough (free) S-04 yeast to pitch closer to 12 degrees next time, instead of just one pack of yeast which doesn't seem to cope with that temp very well.


----------



## thylacine

This is a great post, I'm going to try this method with the remains of a lager I just finished, so I will have enough (free) S-04 yeast to pitch closer to 12 degrees next time, instead of just one pack of yeast which doesn't seem to cope with that temp very well.
[/quote]




If you are interested in top cropping, you may wish to do some further Google searching. eg. not taking/taking the first krausen' skin' ; best for ale & wheat yeasts- ie. the top fermenting strains (or not...) 

cheers


----------



## Nossil

Great thread! I've been reusing slurry lately but find that if its been over 2 weeks since my last brew day i dont want to risk throwing the trub/yeast/beer into the fermenter. 

Recently purchased some liquid yeast for $12 for a wheat beer, and really like the idea of stretching this over 2 or 3 more batches to bring down the cost!! So time to do some rinsing for long term storage! 

For those of you who rinse yeast, how do you sanitise/sterilise? 

Boiling all the glass jars in a big pot for 20mins appears to be the most effecting way. 
What about the vessles for storing the cleaned yeast? (IE the corona bottles?) Quick shake and soak in nappysan, rinse and idophor?


----------



## JaseH

I go about this a slightly different way, I only like to store a small amount of yeast and step it up the week before I brew. This way I can have a few yeast strains stored in the fridge and they are not taking up a lot of room and I am not pressured to brew a particular style just to use the yeast I have washed. 

What I do is make my starter slightly larger than I need for a brew and save some of the slurry from the starter. I generally take 2 small sample jars from a starter before pitching the rest into the beer. Its already pretty clean as I just use DME for the first couple of steps of the starter, so very little trub and no hop material. I figure the yeast is also probably healthier at this stage. Once its settled out in the sample jar in the fridge I pour the starter beer off and top it up with boiled and cooled water. They store fine this way for months until I am ready to step it up again for the next beer using that yeast.

This also means I can dry hop the bejeezus out of my American Ales without having to worry about washing the yeast afterwards.


----------



## Yob

Nossil said:


> What about the vessles for storing the cleaned yeast? (IE the corona bottles?) Quick shake and soak in nappysan, rinse and idophor?



The same process you use to sanitise anything mate, only more so..

Clean - Rinse - Sanitise - Use


----------



## Nossil

I had a go at this last night, and got the following result:









As you can see, sweet FA yeast was 'saved'. I filled up the fermenter with around 500mls of water, swirled, and waited 20 mins.
Emptied around 70% of the slurry/water mix into two jars and waited another 20 mins.
'decanted' a small amount of water/beer mixture off the top of the jar into the sink, put the rest in another clean jar, leaving some trub behind, then topped up the new jar with more water. 

Repeated this another two times.


Maybe I went a bit overboard and ended up pouring most of the yeast down the sink? I wasn't getting much separation after 20-30 mins of waiting, so was very hard to distinguish between yeast/trub/hop debris

If I empty out most of the water from the above jars and combine into one jar, will this be enough to kick off a starter and dump into a new batch?


----------



## Yob

Nossil said:


> As you can see, sweet FA yeast was 'saved'. I filled up the fermenter with around 500mls of water, swirled, and waited 20 mins.
> 
> Why wait? The idea is rinsing the trub out anyway
> 
> Emptied around 70% of the slurry/water mix into two jars and waited another 20 mins.
> 
> This seems a bit odd.. what you want to do is add 1/4 of a jar of slurry and then top up with cooled boiled water
> 
> 'decanted' a small amount of water/beer mixture off the top of the jar into the sink, put the rest in another clean jar, leaving some trub behind, then topped up the new jar with more water.
> 
> Repeated this another two times.
> 
> 
> Maybe I went a bit overboard and ended up pouring most of the yeast down the sink? I wasn't getting much separation after 20-30 mins of waiting, so was very hard to distinguish between yeast/trub/hop debris
> 
> dilute further, if you cannot see the separation it is often because the mixture is still too thick
> 
> If I empty out most of the water from the above jars and combine into one jar, will this be enough to kick off a starter and dump into a new batch?
> 
> Yep, if you are doing a starter you look to have plenty of yeast to do the job




:icon_cheers:


----------



## Nossil

Thanks Yob,




> Why wait? The idea is rinsing the trub out anyway




I thought that was the first part of the rinsing? As per instructions in OP?


Am I right in thinking that the light brown liquid that takes up 95% of the jar in the picture I posted is not yeast? Or better yet, won't be yeast when I pitch in a few weeks. 

So when making a starter I should decant most of the liquid layer, give it a bit of a swirl, and tip it in? 

I ask this because I only have a 1L flask, and if I add the entire contents of the jar to the starter there won't be much room for any wort (DME)!


----------



## thebeemann

Beer4U said:


> Saying that they will probably break on me some time soon, so i might update with some new bottles which means drinking more juice :angry:


Add some vodka and make the girls drink it  
Awsome thread will be trying this soon easier than making slants all the time , just incase you like a strain do you think you could make slants from washed yeast ?


----------



## Wolfy

Nossil said:


> I thought that was the first part of the rinsing? As per instructions in OP?


The OP says "10 to 15 mins" not 20. 
In my "Yeast Rinsing Experiment" I found that after that after about 10 mins the yeast was still in suspension but much of the trub had settled, but at 20mins the yeast had started to settle out also. Obviously it will depend on the yeast/conditions/wort/your technique but it could be that more of yeast was left in the fermentor than would have been ideal.


----------



## Nossil

Oops! h34r: 


Well this was just a trial run on some safbrew S33. Real test will be saving some of the WLP300 that I'm going to put down this weekend. Tad more expensive than the dried yeast I'm used to buying!!


----------



## Malted

Nossil said:


> Real test will be saving some of the WLP300 that I'm going to put down this weekend. Tad more expensive than the dried yeast I'm used to buying!!



IMO if you are using liquid wheat yeasts AND desire the banana characteristics to be maintained, yeast rinsing is not the go. I have found that when using rinsed liquid wheat yeast it looses it's ability to produce banana esters but maintains the ability to produce clove phenolics. Some people do not like banana esters and prefer clove phenolics so this would suit them perfectly. I have not tried top cropping a liquid wheat yeast and then subsequent reuse, perhaps this may be a different story? I would split the original liquid wheat yeast into 4 sanitised containers and make a starter from each as required, if you wanted to maintain banana esters in the brews. 

This is a simplified account, there are more factors involved than I have discussed.


----------



## OneEye

Frothie said:


> I go about this a slightly different way, I only like to store a small amount of yeast and step it up the week before I brew. This way I can have a few yeast strains stored in the fridge and they are not taking up a lot of room and I am not pressured to brew a particular style just to use the yeast I have washed.
> 
> What I do is make my starter slightly larger than I need for a brew and save some of the slurry from the starter. I generally take 2 small sample jars from a starter before pitching the rest into the beer. Its already pretty clean as I just use DME for the first couple of steps of the starter, so very little trub and no hop material. I figure the yeast is also probably healthier at this stage. Once its settled out in the sample jar in the fridge I pour the starter beer off and top it up with boiled and cooled water. They store fine this way for months until I am ready to step it up again for the next beer using that yeast.
> 
> This also means I can dry hop the bejeezus out of my American Ales without having to worry about washing the yeast afterwards.




Brilliant! So simple!


----------



## Nossil

Malted said:


> IMO if you are using liquid wheat yeasts AND desire the banana characteristics to be maintained, yeast rinsing is not the go. I have found that when using rinsed liquid wheat yeast it looses it's ability to produce banana esters but maintains the ability to produce clove phenolics. Some people do not like banana esters and prefer clove phenolics so this would suit them perfectly. I have not tried top cropping a liquid wheat yeast and then subsequent reuse, perhaps this may be a different story? I would split the original liquid wheat yeast into 4 sanitised containers and make a starter from each as required, if you wanted to maintain banana esters in the brews.
> 
> This is a simplified account, there are more factors involved than I have discussed.




I'm very new to brewing so I think i will try rinsing the liquid wheat yeast and see a) if it actually works and b.) if I notice the taste difference (lack of banana esters as you explained) 


I've looked into splitting yeast vials, but 'stepping up' starters confusing the sh*t out of me. Plus i only have a 1L flask.


----------



## Yob

Here's a new one for me..

Took some yeast off the stirplate yesterday and crashed it overnight.. I knew that this sample was a bit old and may have had some dead old yeast in there so thought Id give it a good swirl from my Starter jar, collect the yeast and then rinse it.

This is the collected yeast from the stirplate jar




It's upside down :blink: 

WTF is that all about?.. I can see 150ml of nice yeast and then :blink: 

Coldbreak maybe? This was some of the wort I used for the starter 




dunno, got me a little stumped.. Thoughts appreciated.


----------



## Malted

iamozziyob said:


> Here's a new one for me..
> 
> View attachment 56903
> 
> 
> dunno, got me a little stumped.. Thoughts appreciated.


Kind of looks a bit like a very small pickled alien


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## RobjF

Im going to bottle a batch of IPA that I used wyeast 1056 American Ale. I want to wash the yeast and keep one lot in the fridge for another day, but use some next saturday in a Brown ale. Should I rinse it right out and put it in a starter or just keep it in a flask and pitch it direct to the wort next weekend?


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## Wolfy

If you are going to re-use the yeast within a week (maybe even two) I'd just pitch the rinsed-yeast directly and not bother with a starter.


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## mwd

Here is a good example of the yeast separation. The gunk at the bottom contains all the hop debris from dry hopping.


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## DL

Would it be ok to re-use an ale yeast that has been used to ferment a cider, rinsed and refridgerated as per this thread, to ferment an ale?

By that I mean, is it ok to dramatically change the fermentables from one batch to the next, in this case from fruit juice to malt?


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## MaltyHops

Wolfy said:


> The OP says "10 to 15 mins" not 20.
> In my "Yeast Rinsing Experiment" I found that after that after about 10 mins the yeast was still in suspension but much of the trub had settled, but at 20mins the yeast had started to settle out also. ...


Any thoughts on whether dead yeast sinks faster than live yeast? _THIS_ and _THIS_ HBT poster seem to think so though it's pretty hard to find any discussions on this.

Interested because if I managed to save 200mL of yeast solids and use it some months later where half of the yeast is dead by putting it into a starter to try to get back 200mL of live yeast - firstly, is it necessary to separate away as much of the dead yeast as possible?

Hence if dead yeast does sink faster, then the yeast could be swirled up in boiled water, wait for the dead yeast to sink first and so separate the live yeast.


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## Wolfy

MaltyHops said:


> Interested because if I managed to save 200mL of yeast solids and use it some months later where half of the yeast is dead by putting it into a starter to try to get back 200mL of live yeast - firstly, is it necessary to separate away as much of the dead yeast as possible?


The Yeast book suggests another technique for reviving live yeast and separating it from dead yeast.
From memory, it suggests (something like) adding a higher gravity wort to the yeast and then after a time decanting the liquid portion which will contain the live yeast, and leaving the trub which will be dead yeast.


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## MaltyHops

Thanks Wolfy,

Seems to be considered a difficult thing to do - even more so with
lager yeasts perhaps. Will just have to try and see how it goes.


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## Nossil

Hey guys, just tried to rinse a WLP013 London Ale yeast and got the following:
First Rinse:




Second Rinse:




I only dry hopped .4 grams per litre, but my 0min hop additions were in the cube...which I think a lot ended up in the fermenter when I transferred. But still, cube hops plus dry hops combined would only be just over 1g/litre in this recipe so I'm not sure what the story is with all the green hop gunk!! 

Do you think the second rinse jars are good enough to keep for a few months? Hard to tell in the picture but there is a shitty grainy layer followed by a more white layer... I thought hops were heavier than yeast? 

Bit confused with this one.


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## lukiferj

Thanks for such an easy to follow, informative post Wolfy. I have read a fair bit about yeast but it always seemed like quite a bit of effort to save a few dollars. I have learnt more from this post, along with my having a go with a few different strains of yeast than I have from reading any books. Have now managed to save quite a few dollars over the last few months.

Now to go back and re-read the books to understand the science behind it


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## butisitart

i doing my first wash now, and i figured that hoovering the yeast layer out with a 100ml horse syringe would be a lot easier than decanting and being overly careful. it works. then putting it into urine sample jars (available from chemist about $1.10 each). and they stack on top of each other. very space saving. contemplating the next time a family member has to take a urine sample to the clinic. can't wait for a pathologist to find nothing but clotted beer yeast in my kid's 'urine' sample. they'll all come and visit me - child protection agency, current affairs, the vigilante mothers association, other really envious kids, good thing i'm pretty social.


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## Yob

Thing is, how much of that is healthy viable yeast, the rinsing provides a way to select the good stuff.


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## butisitart

from what i can gather, you have to get rid of the top layer carefully, then go for the 2nd layer, the yeast, while avoiding the 3rd layer, the trub. so, my enthusiastically uninformed theory is that if you rinse and then suck out the middle layer of yeast in a whopping great syringe, it is for the most part going to be pretty good value.
the yeast i sucked out today is now chilled and sitting at about 80-85% yeast and 15-20% clear on top with no colour differentiation underneath. i figure i've selected the best straight out of the middle. i'll know for sure when i pitch it, but i'm feeling pretty good about it.
it's also stacked in 4 containers in an unobtrusive back corner of the fridge where it doesn't annoy the wife, (in urine sample jars). all compact, stacked and ready to go. :icon_cheers: 
i hope.
trick is, if you try it, is to hoover slowly and manoeuvre the syringe around at level. cos it does seem to suck upwards (from towards the bottom) if you go too hard.


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## MartinOC

Excellent premise, butisitart.

'Been thinking the same sort of thing myself using a 25ml pipette to draw "the middle" bit out of a washed sample & then reculturing it on a stir-plate.


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## Yob

Sorry, I thought (for some unknown reason) you were talking about pulling it out of primary, 

have done similar in the past myself with the syringe from the rinse jar, in the end I found it just to be too much effort and just pour carefully


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## MartinOC

Yob said:


> Sorry, I thought (for some unknown reason) you were talking about pulling it out of primary,
> 
> have done similar in the past myself with the syringe from the rinse jar, in the end I found it just to be too much effort and just pour carefully


Are you saying that getting "anal" about what you select from the rinse doesn't matter?


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## Yob

No, just it can be done without doing so, 

TBH I don't worry about selecting from the middle, but I tend to rinse twice so I can, if I choose, discard the top layer on the second rinse. (less flocculent yeast)

Overall, can't say I've noticed much difference if I don't though. It becomes more important the longer you're keeping it going, a few times makes no never mind.


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## MartinOC

Got it!


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## butisitart

culture on a stir plate?? i like that idea.
technically, i guess you could get pure every time -
keep us posted if you go down that road


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## hwall95

Cheers Wolfy for tutorial, was really helpful. 

This is my jar of yeast from my latest pale ale - us05 (2 weeks old now - lagged post) 


Ended up transferring it quite a few times to completely separate the layers and have tested it in one of my little 2L cider experiments I have running in an Old Rosie flagon in my cupboard and it seems to be working really well. 

My next step (once my exams are over) will be to separate them into bottles so then I can just use them with a bit of ease; as using a sanitised spoon was a bit troubling the first time..


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## Yob

That still looks to have beer on top, was this the initial photo before rinsing?

Remember that the longer store it, the less viaviable the yeast become, over 3 to 4 weeks a starter is a good idea. 

That said, I recently pulled out some slurry after about 4 months in the fridge, rinsed extremely well (3 times) and it fired up in a starter with no problem.


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## lukiferj

I once used slurry that was 3 months old and it fired up no worries too. Now that I have the facilities, I would make a starter. Just cause I can.


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## GrumpyPaul

Thanks Wolfy.

tonight I rinsed my first yeast.

The hardest bit is the waiting.....


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## hwall95

Yob said:


> That still looks to have beer on top, was this the initial photo before rinsing?
> 
> Remember that the longer store it, the less viaviable the yeast become, over 3 to 4 weeks a starter is a good idea.
> 
> That said, I recently pulled out some slurry after about 4 months in the fridge, rinsed extremely well (3 times) and it fired up in a starter with no problem.


My bad, this was after rinsing it three times.. I was waiting for the yeast in suspension to drop and forgot to rinse it again.

Yeah I was going to run a starter just to be safe as I won't have time to brew until my uni exams are finished unfortunately (4 weeks to go).


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## Mickcr250

if that was rinsed 3 times already it must have been a very dark beer. 

Sent from my HTC Velocity 4G using Tapatalk


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## Yob

Says it was a pale Ale, I think he needs to up the rinsing volume quite a bit.


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## SimoB

View attachment 71651


Here is my first rinse effort. Been in the fridge for a week. Does this look normal?

edit: sorry double up photo


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## Yob

Looks pretty good to me mate. One thing to do is put some contact on your jars and mark ml on it in 25ml increments so you know what you have.

Cheers


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## SimoB

nice one, will do thanks.


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## storeboughtcheeseburgers

Wolfy said:


> Now we need to be patient and watch what happens, after about 10 to 30mins you should start to see three distinct layers in the jar, clear water/beer ontop, a creamy layer of suspended yeast in the middle and with the trub and break material falling to the bottom of the jar.
> The time it takes, and exactly what it looks like depends on the yeast, the wort, the grain, finnings and many other factors, so if you are not familiar with the process or the yeast it can be a good idea to let the jars sit for a number of hours (even a day) and watch as the trub and yeast settle out over time. However, the longer you let it sit the clearer the layers will become, but once the yeast starts to settle out of suspension it is harder to separate (so if you let it settle out to observe, simply shake it up so you can start the process again).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We want to keep the middle layer since that contains our yeast in suspension. If you do not leave it long enough you will still have trub mixed in, but if you leave it too long the more floculant yeast will have settled out. The process is a bit of trial-and-error, but by careful observation it's not too hard.
> 
> I've found that by the time the layers start to form about 1/2 to 2/3 of the jar's contents is the milky-homogenous-yeasty-suspension that we want to keep, the trub and debris on the bottom is usually a darker, grainy layer, with the jars having a thin-clear layer on the top.
> By carefully decanting the liquids we should be able to discard the clear top-layer, keep the middle layer which is our yeast in suspension, and discard the bottom layer of trub.
> The middle jar is the original one, with the trub remaining on the bottom, the jar on the right contains our top clear layer and the jar on the left is our yeast-in-suspension that we will keep:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The suspended-yeast-layer from the second jar was decanted into a flask ready for re-pitching, the top clear layer discarded and the trub (with some suspended yeast), that will also be discarded, remaining in the original jar:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we have done it right and/or were lucky, by letting the saved yeast-in-suspension layer settle out, we should have only single layer of nice clean creamy yeast:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But if you find you still have a distinct layer of trub settling more quickly, simply repeat the process again.
> 
> The yeast in the flask was left to settle (refrigeration would have sped-up the process, however since I was going to directly re-pitch the yeast I did not want to risk thermal-shocking it, so instead just waited a day for it to settle out at fermentation temps).
> Once the yeast has been rinsed and settled to form a thick compact layer of yeast-slurry (if it is viable and healthy) 50 to 100ml should be adequate for pitching into the next batch of beer.
> 
> The yeast in the jar, which will be stored for later use was washed several times more, until the liquid remained clear, each time decanting the liquid from the top and giving the yeast time to settle out:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the liquid above the yeast is clear, it was split into 3 storage containers (ie: sterilized beer bottles):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once they have been capped and labeled the washed yeast should remain viable if stored in the fridge for 6 to 9 months.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The thick layer of yeast on the bottom of the bottles should be adequate to pitch directly into a starter (I step it from 300ml to 1.5L before pitching), however yeast stored this way does not usually remain viable more than about 1 year.


Im all good til the last step,

How did you decant the final yeast slurry into the 3 bottles?


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## Yob

Wolfys not on here much anymore, 

You pour very slowly and gently so as not to disturb the shite at the bottom. 

You can get little funnels if you want to store in pet or stubbles.


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## storeboughtcheeseburgers

Thanks,

I understand that he made the starter in one go, but the last bit is confusing me. With the residual least left in the jar, was this rinsed in sterilised water until all the brown was gone and then split into 3.. just not getting how he got the three into the bottles


Yob said:


> Wolfys not on here much anymore,
> 
> You pour very slowly and gently so as not to disturb the shite at the bottom.
> 
> You can get little funnels if you want to store in pet or stubbles.


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## lukiferj

storeboughtcheeseburgers said:


> Thanks,
> 
> I understand that he made the starter in one go, but the last bit is confusing me. With the residual least left in the jar, was this rinsed in sterilised water until all the brown was gone and then split into 3.. just not getting how he got the three into the bottles


Pour some boiled. cooled water in, swirl and put 1/3 into each bottle.


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## storeboughtcheeseburgers

lukiferj said:


> Pour some boiled. cooled water in, swirl and put 1/3 into each bottle.


Cheers mate,

I'm rinsing my first AG which was pretty trubbb troubley? so I'll prob decant the yeast layer into one, let it settle and redecant - i boil all my drinking water anyway so should be easy.

Very cool technique!


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## lukiferj

No worries! Although it sounds a bit complicated, once you have done it a few times you get the hang of it pretty quickly. You can also start to pick when the layers separate better. Good luck :beerbang:


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## storeboughtcheeseburgers

Yeh pretty happy with how mine turned out - I decanted both jars into one juice bottle and I boiled/sanitised all 3 to start with.

Can I just store this in the fridge now for a future use? I'll probably use it for 2 20 Litre batches down the track, can I split it later into bottles? Or does this have to be done now


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## lukiferj

Well done. Looks like you got plenty of clean yeasties in there.

Would probably be easier to split now but will be fine down the track.


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## storeboughtcheeseburgers

Ok - so if I just decant the top layer up until the white, then add some water to 2 beer bottles, can I swirl it and pour it in the bottles (half each)


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## lukiferj

Yep exactly. If you have enough yeast it will be easier to split now and less chance of infection if you try and use half later. I would just pour the water into the jar, swirl and then pour half of the solution into the bottles.


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## Nullnvoid

What a bugger, I searched for this thread and all the pictures are missing because of the "Third party sharing" bullshit.


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## laxation

I haven't even watched it yet, but maybe this video will help... 

it's on my to-do-list of shit to watch and try

if you watch it, let me know if its any good!


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## mtb

laxation said:


> I haven't even watched it yet, but maybe this video will help...
> 
> it's on my to-do-list of shit to watch and try
> 
> if you watch it, let me know if its any good!



I watched it some time ago, it's a good summary of the process


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