# Dry Hopping Without Hops



## marlow_coates (24/4/08)

May have left this a bit late to ask... but will see.

We are doing our weekly brewing sessions tomorow, and wanted to give it an Australian feel (for ANZAC day) by dry hopping with a native plant.

Have read Baron's use wattle seed. Was going to try this but our wattle is not seeding at the moment. Then thought using the leaves might work, but to be honest they don't smell very nice and I really don't think they will impart a good aroma. (I am aware there are many types of wattle).

I was wondering if anyone had tried this before and what were the results?
Could you recommend a certain plant?
Any suggestions would help for future experimental brews. :icon_cheers: 

Cheers fellas

Marlow


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## crozdog (24/4/08)

sorry never tried it. I believe that there are different types of wattle seed (as you point out there is many wattles after all) & some may not be edible - do your research before chucking anything in. 

Just cause wattle isn't seeding doesn't mean you can't get it - checkout healthfood shops & or better still bush tucker/native food supplies (google is your friend)

Gruit was used before hops, so the idea isn't new. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruit


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## KoNG (24/4/08)

i had an english summer ale the other day. the brewery name escapes me (which is annoying me greatley).. 
but it was brewed with "elderflower" and it was bloody beeewdi-full...! could be worth a try

i'll post a link when the beer/brewery pops into my head.

Badgers - Golden Champion ale
http://www.hall-woodhouse.co.uk/

i've actually had a few of their beers.. and they are all great. First Gold being a favourite


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## mfdes (24/4/08)

I made a tea tree beer, inspired by Captain Cooker (manuka flavoured).
Tasted like tea tree oil gargles...

MFS.


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## 270win (24/4/08)

On a recent hunting trip to the Flinders Ranges here in SA I learnt about wild hops that grow there.
Apparently they where introduced into Outback Australia by Afghan camel drivers in the early 1800s. They typically grow in rugged rocky country.
Dont know if they are suitable for brewing but might be worth looking into, the Afgans must have put them there for a reason.



Wild hops
Acetosa vesicaria
(previously Rumex vesicarius) 

Also known as rosy dock or ruby dock, wild hops were introduced to Australia from central Asia/northern Africa in the 19th century, probably as a garden plant. Today wild hops are a major
environmental weed in arid Australia infesting our desert parks.


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## Cocko (24/4/08)

Some Wattles contain DMT, a pretty potent hullicinogen! So you may be sending the diggers back into battle...


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## Luka (24/4/08)

I know some Scottish brewers still brew with Heather which is the traditional way in that part of the world, rather than hops. I guess hops do several things: add bitterness to balance the malt sweetness, give aroma and flavour and act as a preservative. It would depend on which outcome you are trying to achieve as to what you could add. Because you mentioned dry hopping, then I'm guessing you are looking for aroma and flavour, so as long as the additive wasn't poisonous then you could add all sorts of things. I know a guy who has used Peanut Butter in the past, others have used Kaffir Lime leaves, chillis, chocolate of course. Hope I havent drifted off topic


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## mfdes (24/4/08)

270win said:


> On a recent hunting trip to the Flinders Ranges here in SA I learnt about wild hops that grow there.
> Apparently they where introduced into Outback Australia by Afghan camel drivers in the early 1800s. They typically grow in rugged rocky country.
> Dont know if they are suitable for brewing but might be worth looking into, the Afgans must have put them there for a reason.
> 
> ...



Hi there.
These are not feral hops (i.e. Humulus lupulus planted there and growing wild ever since), but a different and completely unrelated species (in fact a native, if I remember correctly). Whether they were once used to make beer and what the result might have tasted like is open to speculation, unless someone here can report back... 

MFS.


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## Cortez The Killer (24/4/08)

I tried Barons Wattle Seed beer at a food/wine festival on the weekend and it wasn't too bad

I also tried their Wit with lemon myrtle or something like that - and it was very ordinary - SWMBO liked it though

Cheers


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## RetsamHsam (24/4/08)

Ahhhhhh... 

The 'No Hop' Method!!


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## Thirsty Boy (25/4/08)

There is a native plant called the "Hop Bush" I believe that portions of it were used to bitter colonial beers when hops were not available. Apparently the seed capsules are very similar in appearance to normal hop flowers and are mostly what people mention... but I also have seen reference to the fact that the leaves are very bitter and can also be used as a substitute bittering agent in beer making.

Some stuff trolled from the www

Hop Bush (Dodonaea viscosa)



Hop Bush is an interesting plant insofar as it appears to turn red or brown during the spring. There are several forms available from local native plant nurseries; subspecies spatulata is the variety found in local bushland (near Echuca). Hop Bush grows about two metres high and a metre wide. It is important to water the plant occasionally during dry spells.Having said that, this shrub is common around Bourke and Cobar but not popular with graziers because it is not palatable to stock.


Native - Wedge-leaf Hop bush
Scientific Name:
Dodonaea viscosa ssp. cuneata
Small, papery winged fruits are characteristic of this beautiful shrub. They turn from green to a colourful red and purple and are a lovely contrast to their sticky green leaves, which are wedge shaped and taper to a point. The common name “Hop bush” is used because the fruits resemble those used for brewing, though their only use in that regard has been by the early settlers as a substitute for hops. Before this time they were used in the area of Queensland by Aboriginals for medicinal uses. This included using the juice of the root for toothache and cuts and on stonefish and stingray stings. This species is distributed along eastern Australia in inland areas in mallee scrub in semi-arid areas and open forest. On the Cumberland Plain this species is common on clay soils in open forests. To grow this beautiful shrub you will need to grow them in either full sun or part shade in light, well-drained soil. This species is very hardy, requiring minimal pruning. It will grow between one and three metres either in a compact or spreading growth form, flowering in spring. Propagation is influenced by the fact that this species has male and female flowers are on separate plants. You will need both male and female plants to sow from seed. Alternately you can
take cuttings in spring and summer. Take care though, if you want to have a plant with the beautiful fruits you will need to cut from a female plant and ensure that you have a male plant close by.

Wedge-leaf Hop Bush (Dodonaea viscosa) - Papery red seed capsules were used by European settlers as "hops" in beer making. Wurundjeri people chewed the leaves to relieve tooth-ache, and bound them on their skin to treat stingray wounds.




Lots of information HERE including the fact that the flowers can e used to brew a "tangy, bitter but drinkable beer"



Maybe helpful... maybe not. I say if its for dry hopping then have a smell, have a taste and if your nose tells you its gonna work (and if you are sure it isn't going to kill you or make you sick) try a few out in different small containers.


Why the hell not??

TB


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## Plastic Man (25/4/08)

Kong

Where did you source the hall woodhouse beer in OZ ?? Sounds interesting.

pm


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## dug (26/4/08)

I have been toying wtith the idea of using native pepper berries in a porter style recipe. You could use either the berries or the leaves.

Apparently in the ye olde days here in tassie they used bark from the sassafrass tree to impart flavour in their brews. The freshly stripped bark does have some very nice smell to it.


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## LethalCorpse (26/4/08)

How about waratah or bottlebrush? Not sure what the yeast would do with their sugars though


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## 3G (26/4/08)

Native pepperberries are extremely hot, maybe ten times hotter than black pepper, just a word of warning.


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## marlow_coates (27/4/08)

cheers for the wealth of advice.

went with about 30g of chopped eucalyptus leaves (boiled for 1 min to clean) and about 10g of Tettenang dry into fermenter (i know this counts as dry hopping with hops but they were lying around so thought why not)

the eucalyptus and hop mix smelled tops and really hope some of it is imparted into the aroma of the brew.

I am now smelling crushed leaves from as many plants as I can and will be experimenting with this a lot more.

 
Will let you know how this one goes in a week or so.


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## mfdes (27/4/08)

Doug,
I'd stay away from native pepper berries, and I mean don't get them anywhere near your beer 
I tried once. 25L down the drain. Even just a few provided an overpowering taste that was completely undrinkable. I had tried the bush liquor that The Lark distillery make (out of native pepper) and liked it. 
But with beer it was a disaster.

MFS.


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## 0M39A (27/4/08)

dug said:


> I have been toying wtith the idea of using native pepper berries in a porter style recipe. You could use either the berries or the leaves.
> 
> Apparently in the ye olde days here in tassie they used bark from the sassafrass tree to impart flavour in their brews. The freshly stripped bark does have some very nice smell to it.



I remember my grandad talking about making "sassy" which was beer made with sassafrass bark. also fermented it with bakers yeast and used a bit of potato wrapped in newspaper to cork the bottles, so i dare say the quality would leave something to be desired.

might try and get some more details on it and post them here.


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## LethalCorpse (27/4/08)

They also used the nuclear fission method of forced carbonation, so you'd have to be careful.


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## mfdes (28/4/08)

0M39A said:


> I remember my grandad talking about making "sassy" which was beer made with sassafrass bark. also fermented it with bakers yeast and used a bit of potato wrapped in newspaper to cork the bottles, so i dare say the quality would leave something to be desired.
> 
> might try and get some more details on it and post them here.



Just a word of warning on sassafras. The Tasmanian sassafras (Atherosperma moschata) is carcinogenic, the main reason it is no longer used to make tea or beer. Yes it smells and tastes divine, but it is illegal to put it in commercial products and you'd be warned to stay away from it.

Just look at my posts! 

You'd think I was just trying to put down everyone's ideas... trust me, I wouldn't have done it unless I had a good reason. 

One think I've been keed to try is Kunzea. It grows on the east coast in Tassie, and it smells really good. The tea you make with it is safe, so I presume it's safe to use in beer, and it has a mild tea-tree-with-cinnamon kind of smell.... I really like it.

As to whether you'd use them as dry hops I don't know, probably you'd want to steep them in the hot liquid to extract the aroma. 

Personally, keeping in line with the topic, I'd use only hops as dry hops, since you know they work and are safe.

MFS.


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## KoNG (28/4/08)

Plastic Man said:


> Kong
> 
> Where did you source the hall woodhouse beer in OZ ?? Sounds interesting.
> 
> pm



Yo plastic,
i got that one at vintage cellars in mosman/cremorne from memory. They had a couple of the Badgers range.
Previously i have also sourced the Badgers First Gold, from Camperdown Cellars. So you could try there if you are south side.

Upon reading up, it seems they use an elderflower extract in secondary, instead of any straight plant matter. But it was definately worth trying. A very different yet refreshing floral flavour/aroma.


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