# The Corona Virus (COVID 19) Thread



## Frothy Boi (3/3/20)

Facts, opinions, thoughts, fears, concerns, memes or anything corona virus related, discuss here.

My only question so far is, why are people hoarding so much toilet paper?
If you're quarantined inside your house I can see the need for food but if you run out of dunny paper, surely you could just wash your arse in the shower.


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## wide eyed and legless (3/3/20)

Frothy Boi said:


> Facts, opinions, thoughts, fears, concerns, memes or anything corona virus related, discuss here.
> 
> My only question so far is, why are people hoarding so much toilet paper?
> If you're quarantined inside your house I can see the need for food but if you run out of dunny paper, surely you could just wash your arse in the shower.


From what I have read diarrhea is one of the symptoms of Covid19, so that's a lot of showers. Toilet paper comes from China and with 500 million being stood down from jobs toilet paper will run out pretty quickly.


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## RobB (3/3/20)

One of canned items which supermarkets are also struggling to keep stocked is baked beans. If toilet paper really is going to be in short supply, I'd be choosing a different source of protein.


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## Frothy Boi (3/3/20)

I'd expect some loose stools, but not shitting thru the eye of a needle, full blown gastro grade squirts that you need a whole trolley of toilet paper to mop up.


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## razz (3/3/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> From what I have read diarrhea is one of the symptoms of Covid19, so that's a lot of showers. Toilet paper comes from China and with 500 million being stood down from jobs toilet paper will run out pretty quickly.


If we run out, and that's a big if, I'll use the hand shower in the shower recess. I'm thinking of putting in a bidet seat and doing the toilet paper company out of my business. What about when the beer runs out? I'd be more scared then than now.


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## Tomo (3/3/20)

Not possible beer running out. One thing about all grain brewing plenty of stock. Have seen your fridge on forum 14 days quartine no probs.


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## Fro-Daddy (3/3/20)

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

I look at this pretty often to see what's going on.

China's numbers have 'stopped rising' for a while so I wouldn't believe their total.


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## Grok (3/3/20)

Well, if things are that bad that you gotta sit on the dunny full time.....,may as well get a chilled keg of beer on gas next to you with a pluto gun attached and drink your nice cold beer, and read a good book while you wait for nature to take its course, and then you can use a squirt from the pluto gun to wash your freckle every now and then........ No dunny paper needed!


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## chesl73 (3/3/20)

Am I missing something or does it all seem a bit over blown with lots of media hysteria?
You are only going to die if you are old and/ or have some existing health issue. The mortality rate is more than the flu but not dramatically so.


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## DU99 (3/3/20)

What amazes me is people with facial hair wearing mask's,they are no use to them,and people forget there home delivery of goods/beer


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## Jack of all biers (4/3/20)

Fro-Daddy said:


> https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
> 
> I look at this pretty often to see what's going on.
> 
> China's numbers have 'stopped rising' for a while so I wouldn't believe their total.


I'm not surprised their numbers have stopped rising. Look at the recovery numbers on the graph. Going up. Given the Chinese governments have pulled no stops to contain this once they realised the shit had hit the fan (welding people into apartment complexes, forcably removing families for treatment etc), and that the vast majority of the population are now not going out or are wearing face masks etc, it is no wonder their numbers have peaked. I'm not a fan of their government and accept it was dreadfully slow and pathetically inept in it's handling of the matter.

I had a rant about this topic on another forum and am kind of repeating myself, but as the saying goes the standard of behaviour you walk past is the standard of behaviour you accept. I would say though educate yourselves. Coronavirus has killed less people in the world in about three months than two days worth of road related accident deaths in the world. Far fewer people in the world have been diagnosed infected by the corona virus than were hospitalised due to the flu in 2018/2019 just in the USA (490,600 people). That's not all the people that had the flu. Thats just those hospitalised in ONE country. Deaths that season from flu in the USA were 34,200 people. Again, just ONE country and a western one to boot. The US flu season lasts about 5 months, so the majority of those stats occurred during that period. Even if we accept that 10 times the amount of people have the corona virus than the current diagnosed numbers (unlikely it is that high, but for the sake of the argument go with it), so just under a million people. That number too pails in comparison to the accepted estimation of the numbers of flu infections in the US last flu season (over 35 million, which is over 10% of the population).

Panic shopping for toilet paper etc and fear of others is base stupidity. Having a good thorough hygiene routines is always a good thing, especially aproaching winter (flu season), but no one normally panic buys toilet paper because winter is coming do they. THINK people.


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## Fro-Daddy (4/3/20)

The numbers stopped climbing for China when they announced they are once again changing the way they count cases.


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## Grmblz (4/3/20)

Corona is not the pandemic we should all be dreading, the Spanish Dancer IS coming but this isn't her, so why the hysteria? Anything to do with the US/China war perhaps? 
As for toilet paper I have these fitted in all our toilets  anyone that has lived in S'E' Asia will smile knowingly.


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## RobW (4/3/20)

That's just the US. Globally, flu kills more like 250,000 a year.
A little common sense would go a long way.


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## Grmblz (4/3/20)

RobW said:


> That's just the US. Globally, flu kills more like 250,000 a year.
> A little common sense would go a long way.



Unfortunately common sense isn't very common.


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## TONY VAN DER ZANDEN (4/3/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> From what I have read diarrhea is one of the symptoms of Covid19, so that's a lot of showers. Toilet paper comes from China and with 500 million being stood down from jobs toilet paper will run out pretty quickly.


I have been lead to believe that Australia doesn't import toilet paper. It's all made here. Good opportunity to support local jobs, so crap away people!!


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## Fro-Daddy (4/3/20)

The issue currently isn't really the number of cases, it is the severity of the cases.

https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html
Another recent study, considered the largest on COVID-19 cases to date, researchers from the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Protection, analyzed 44,672 confirmed cases in China between Dec. 31, 09 and Feb. 11, 2020. Of those cases, 80.9% (or 36,160 cases) were considered mild, 13.8% (6,168 cases) severe and 4.7% (2,087) critical. "Critical cases were those that exhibited respiratory failure, septic shock, and/or multiple organ dysfunction/failure,"

This means that if you were to catch it, there is a 1 in 5 or 1 in 6 chance that it will be severe/critical. That is much higher than the flu which is why people are concerned.
As it is more contagious than the flu (based on current numbers), the potential for harm is much higher.


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## Frothy Boi (4/3/20)

RobW said:


> That's just the US. Globally, flu kills more like 250,000 a year.
> A little common sense would go a long way.



The mortality rate of seasonal flu is around 0.1%, Estimates for Covid 19 are at around 3%. Spanish Flu was estimated at 2-3%.
If Measures weren't being taken to limit the spread of Covid 19 then it would be a really big problem. That being said taking measures like good hygiene and washing your hands regularly will go a long way for your own personal protection. Panic buying of loo paper is just moronic tho.


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## wide eyed and legless (4/3/20)

I called in to get some bread flour even that was gone, I think there are some seasoned doomsday preppers at work.


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## Kev R (4/3/20)




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## yankinoz (5/3/20)

chesl73 said:


> Am I missing something or does it all seem a bit over blown with lots of media hysteria?
> You are only going to die if you are old and/ or have some existing health issue. The mortality rate is more than the flu but not dramatically so.



Don't downplay it.

WHO's calculated reported mortality rate is now 3.4 percent. about 35 times that of the present seasonal flu. What do you consider "dramatic?" In either case there are unereported mild cases, but by definition we don't know how many. Yes, the rate is higher among the elderly and people with issues, but the rate is still higher than flu among men in their thirties. Children do quite well with it, but that may make them carriers.

Good news is that it does not appear to be as contagious as flu. Maybe look for outbreaks popping up here and there for some time to come, rather than a sweeping epidemic. So far rapid spread has only occurred where temperatures are fairly cool. Yes, that includes northern Italy and NW Iran (Tehran and Qom are at altitude) this time of year. Like most flu outbreaks, it may be seasonal, but for the time being that is little help down under.


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## wide eyed and legless (5/3/20)

They are having a good laugh in the UK at the Aussies panic buying toilet paper.


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## RobW (5/3/20)

All you need to know really.

https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/victorian-public-coronavirus-disease-covid-19

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/alerts/Pages/coronavirus-faqs.aspx

Listen to the science not opinion.

Cheers


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## clickeral (5/3/20)

Myself, Partner and 2 friends are suspected to have had it and are now recovered. Picked it up on our japan trip. Took about 2.5weeks to recover was pretty nasty but in our cases wasn't life threatening


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## wide eyed and legless (5/3/20)

Well returned to Coles today to get some Wallaby bread flour, zilch, rice on shelves zilch, what is wrong with people? Rang around Woolworths stores in our area no bread flour, Hindustani Imports in Dandenong have it will go first thing in the morning, offered to pay now and pick up tomorrow was assured there is no need, though it has been moving.
This all reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where someone was spotted eating a Mars Bar or such like, days later everyone was doing the same. Doesn't take much for the sheep to get on the band wagon, my wife tells me pasta was off the shelves too.


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## chesl73 (5/3/20)

yankinoz said:


> Don't downplay it.
> 
> WHO's calculated reported mortality rate is now 3.4 percent. about 35 times that of the present seasonal flu. What do you consider "dramatic?" In either case there are unereported mild cases, but by definition we don't know how many. Yes, the rate is higher among the elderly and people with issues, but the rate is still higher than flu among men in their thirties. Children do quite well with it, but that may make them carriers.
> 
> Good news is that it does not appear to be as contagious as flu. Maybe look for outbreaks popping up here and there for some time to come, rather than a sweeping epidemic. So far rapid spread has only occurred where temperatures are fairly cool. Yes, that includes northern Italy and NW Iran (Tehran and Qom are at altitude) this time of year. Like most flu outbreaks, it may be seasonal, but for the time being that is little help down under.


I see your point however I'd say that panic buying toilet roll is "dramatic". The calculated mortality rate is based on reported cases. The actual cases is likely to be a fair bit higher thus reducing the mortality rate.


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## Grmblz (5/3/20)

https://www.oocities.org/hollywood/hills/9609/larsonCartoon2.gif
You ask what's wrong with people weal, a useful indicator of a societies health and well being is the leaders they elect to govern them, oh shit we're screwed nearly as badly as the yanks.


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## wide eyed and legless (5/3/20)

Grmblz said:


> https://www.oocities.org/hollywood/hills/9609/larsonCartoon2.gif
> You ask what's wrong with people weal, a useful indicator of a societies health and well being is the leaders they elect to govern them, oh shit we're screwed nearly as badly as the yanks.


Could have been worse could have been Shorten. So we aren't quite that bad.


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## MHB (5/3/20)

Yet another opinion we don't share.
Mark


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## Vini2ton (5/3/20)

Can you imagine what would happen if it was reported that a massive fleet of a certain nation's battleships was headed to our shores? This panic buying is pissweak. Mind you, I may be accused of doing a bit of panic brewing lately. Things will calm down and we'll wonder what all the fuss was about.


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## wide eyed and legless (5/3/20)

MHB said:


> Yet another opinion we don't share.
> Mark


Fortunately the Australian electorate did.


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## Grmblz (5/3/20)

Religion and politics guys, two things you do not discuss in a pub, although it's hard to ignore a cocktail swilling God botherer waddling around burned out towns forcibly grabbing people to shake their hands whilst claiming on UK tv that "it's all under control and we don't need any help" just give me 30 seconds with the F'g useless piece of shit. As for "the electorate" weal, people get the politicians they deserve, so all those toilet paper/flour grabbing folks voted apparently for the same principals that you hold dear, sorta grabs you by the boo boo don't it


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## Roosterboy (5/3/20)

Diarrhea is not a typical symptom of Corona virus.


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## wide eyed and legless (5/3/20)

Some people don' t have any symptoms at all, one article I read is that the virus has been around since the sixties and most people would have had it at some stage and in some other form, obviously not in the form of SARS or MARS or as COVID19.
https://www.nytimes.com/article/coronavirus-symptoms-flu.html#link-5cda2f4b


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## Summerkill (6/3/20)

Here are some facts from a few days ago


Everyone take a breath... you don’t need more toilet paper! That won’t help with the Coronavirus BUT HERES SOME INFORMATION THAT WILL!

 82,000 People are sick with Coronavirus at the moment, of which 77,000 are in China.
This means that if you are not in or haven't recently visited China, this should eliminate 94% of your concern.

If you do contract Coronavirus, this still is not a cause for panic because:
81% of the Cases are MILD
14% of the Cases are MODERATE
Only 5% of the Cases are CRITICAL

Which means that even if you do get the virus, you are most likely to recover from it.

Some have said, “but this is worse than SARS!”. SARS had a fatality rate of 10% while COVID-19 has a fatality rate of 2%

Moreover, looking at the ages of those who are dying of this virus, the death rate for the people UNDER 50 years of age is only 0.2%

This means that if you are under 50 years of age and don't live in China - you are more likely to win the lottery (which has a 1 in 45,000,000 chance)

Let’s take one of the worst days so far, the 10th of February, when 108 people in CHINA died of Coronavirus.

On the same day:
26,283 people died of Cancer
24,641 people died of Heart Disease
4,300 people died of Diabetes
Suicide took 28 times more lives than the virus did.

Mosquitoes kill 2,740 people every day, 
HUMANS kill 1,300 fellow humans every day,
Snakes kill 137 people every day, 
Sharks kill 2 people a year.

Let’s tackle problems that matter! Like in Australia one woman a week is murdered by her current or former partner.


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## wide eyed and legless (6/3/20)

The panic buyers did me a favour, 5 kg of Wallaby bread flour Coles and Woolies generally around $12 for a 5 kg bag. Hindustani Imports $32.60 for a 25 kg bag of Wallaby flour. Win win, thank you, you panic merchants.


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## Frothy Boi (6/3/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> The panic buyers did me a favour, 5 kg of Wallaby bread flour Coles and Woolies generally around $12 for a 5 kg bag. Hindustani Imports $32.60 for a 25 kg bag of Wallaby flour. Win win, thank you, you panic merchants.


Wallaby flour? is it made from real wallabies?


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## raturay (7/3/20)

Frothy Boi said:


> Wallaby flour? is it made from real wallabies?


Yeah, but after they take the hops out for us brewers


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## DU99 (7/3/20)

Read this about Virus from health department 
no mention of diarrhea


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## wide eyed and legless (7/3/20)

https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf...i67i395j0i67i395j0i131j0j0i131i67.rSw43XsERKc
A link to symptoms from multiple sources. Apparently there are two different viruses aligned to the coronavirus. https://www.newscientist.com/articl...are-there-two-strains-and-is-one-more-deadly/


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## Crusty (8/3/20)

I think if you contract the virus, toilet paper's probably the last thing you'll need but the herd mentality of countless numbers of idiots is simply mind blowing. People in punch ups, getting tazed & a woman pulling a knife over toilet paper is just ridiculous. Doomsday preppers wiping out all stock of toilet paper is just so damn stupid & totally unnecessary. FFS, wake up to yourselves & stop being driven by the one sided crap the media keeps pumping into your heads. For me personally, I'm just going to sit back & watch what unfolds & I'm so confident that my one bog a day routine probably won't change so I just bought one toilet roll just to prove that I'm not at all concerned with what's going on.


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## Grmblz (8/3/20)

Crusty said:


> I think if you contract the virus, toilet paper's probably the last thing you'll need but the herd mentality of countless numbers of idiots is simply mind blowing. People in punch ups, getting tazed & a woman pulling a knife over toilet paper is just ridiculous. Doomsday preppers wiping out all stock of toilet paper is just so damn stupid & totally unnecessary. FFS, wake up to yourselves & stop being driven by the one sided crap the media keeps pumping into your heads. For me personally, I'm just going to sit back & watch what unfolds & I'm so confident that my one bog a day routine probably won't change so I just bought one toilet roll just to prove that I'm not at all concerned with what's going on.
> 
> View attachment 117720


Where the hell do you buy just ONE toilet roll? The smallest pack I could find had 4 in it (which is what I bought cus there's a female in the house that seems to believe we have shares in a pulp mill)


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## Grmblz (8/3/20)

oops, read the post didn't see the pic


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## Crusty (8/3/20)

Grmblz said:


> oops, read the post didn't see the pic


I couldn't carry the 4 pack, too bloody heavy.


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## Danscraftbeer (8/3/20)

Chicken Little's? The boy who cried Wolf! Stimulus of some sort. How advantageous may it be for some to scare the herds this way or that? Intentional or unintentional this is one interesting/disturbing social experiment.
Nothing to panic about and yet there is an unnerving observation of panic being displayed.


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## Brewman_ (8/3/20)

Frothy Boi said:


> Wallaby flour? is it made from real wallabies?


Does it throw grassy notes?


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## Frothy Boi (12/3/20)

Forget the loo roll shortage. A brewer can't even get his hands on a freezer these days. Although there might be a bunch of second handies available when this whole things blows over, eventually. https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/heal...-melbourne-residents-to-buy-freezers-c-740795


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## RobB (13/3/20)

It seems that soap is the new toilet paper (as in the latest target for panic buying, not what you wipe your ring with......)


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## Andyburgs (13/3/20)

WORLD HAS GONE MAD!!
NEWCASTLE BEERFEST NOW CANCELLED!


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## Nullnvoid (13/3/20)

Andyburgs said:


> WORLD HAS GONE MAD!!
> NEWCASTLE BEERFEST NOW CANCELLED!



How is the world gone mad. Seems like the logical thing to do?


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## Danscraftbeer (14/3/20)

Andyburgs said:


> WORLD HAS GONE MAD!!
> NEWCASTLE BEERFEST NOW CANCELLED!





Nullnvoid said:


> How is the world gone mad. Seems like the logical thing to do?



I doubt there would be any Corona there. 
I could be wrong though.


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## Blackman (15/3/20)

Danscraftbeer said:


> I doubt there would be any Corona there.
> I could be wrong though.


I went to a beer festival in Tassie about 7 years ago. Half the people there had Corona! Made me sick!


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## Grmblz (15/3/20)

6 kegs on tap, 4 fermenters doing there thing, I'm preparing for self isolation, whether it's needed or not.


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## yankinoz (16/3/20)

Coronavirus mortality rate and litres per capita annual beer consumption:

Italy: 7.1%, 34 L
Germany: 0.21%, 104 L

Get off the vino and back on bierra, folks.


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## Roosterboy (16/3/20)

Blackman said:


> I went to a beer festival in Tassie about 7 years ago. Half the people there had Corona! Made me sick!


? Princes Wharf Hobart , I think in December. That was a great event. Yeah there were buckets of Corona everywhere. I remember Carl from Moon Dog making fun of them.


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## Brewer Tom (16/3/20)

for those who didn't notice Sydney skys today there was a hidden message . . . (wash hands)


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## Blackman (17/3/20)

Roosterboy said:


> ? Princes Wharf Hobart , I think in December. That was a great event. Yeah there were buckets of Corona everywhere. I remember Carl from Moon Dog making fun of them.


No. It was right outside the Boags brewery in Launceston. Awesome weekend. And Corona Buckets everywhere!. 
Who would go to a beer festival to drink Corona?


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## philrob (17/3/20)

[QUOTE="Blackman, Who would go to a beer festival to drink Corona?[/QUOTE]

Who would go anywhere to drink Corona?
Is it even beer?


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## Chappo666 (17/3/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> I called in to get some bread flour even that was gone, I think there are some seasoned doomsday preppers at work.


BaaWhaaaa HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Holy [email protected] that's the funniest shit I have seen so far!!!! 

Well us Remote Rural types (in inverted commas)... you know... Hillbillies... that's how we shop normally furkers!!! You try wiping ya arse with a wombat??? The furkers are fast!!! But soooooooo soft and furry.... best thing is they clean their coat in just a jiffy ready for ya next turd... but thay maybe a little gun shy next time round... possibly a bit bitey... that's why possums are disposable one use really...

Oh yeah! Forgot? Yep you're all going to die...die...die... Devil forks in the air with double fist pump playing "DIE MY DEAR" Metallica version live garage days CD.

Don't look now but the great heist is happening as we speak... who benefits from a stock crash masked/veiled as a pandemic crisis? Don't look now but your beloved GOVT just took your cash away and your civil liberties via the pandemic... Bail in for the banker/robbers... alls well no?

Hoard beer and ammo my friends... it'll be your only chance against the Police State coming to a shopping mall near you...

Chappo666


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## Blackman (18/3/20)

Crusty said:


> I think if you contract the virus, toilet paper's probably the last thing you'll need but the herd mentality of countless numbers of idiots is simply mind blowing. People in punch ups, getting tazed & a woman pulling a knife over toilet paper is just ridiculous. Doomsday preppers wiping out all stock of toilet paper is just so damn stupid & totally unnecessary. FFS, wake up to yourselves & stop being driven by the one sided crap the media keeps pumping into your heads. For me personally, I'm just going to sit back & watch what unfolds & I'm so confident that my one bog a day routine probably won't change so I just bought one toilet roll just to prove that I'm not at all concerned with what's going on.
> 
> View attachment 117720


I just got onto these ones


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## wide eyed and legless (18/3/20)

My wife is on face book, this morning she happened to show me a post someone had put up, 'Isn't this lovely' The biggest load of garbage I have read, 'Every one should self isolate read and be at peace for a month, after the month is over we emerge like butterfly's mending relationships with peace and love for all mankind'. Despite my argument that in real life, folk have been fighting over toilet rolls, supermarket staff spat at and punched, a staff member stabbed, hoarders are no better than looters, arguments and fights among the pensioner hour outside supermarkets. She refuses to see my point of view until karma struck. Today she lost her (not inexpensive watch) inside Coles and it wasn't handed in. Though I was somewhat pleased, I now know what she will be wanting for her birthday in a weeks time.


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## Half-baked (19/3/20)

On Facebook I’ve started to be bombarded by craft breweries offering free shipping. 

Hopefully just going for people avoiding shops, but makes you realise that a lot of businesses will be doing it tough over the next few months. 

Make sure you buy a few cases from your favourite breweries


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## scomet (5/4/20)




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## Vini2ton (6/4/20)

I'm hearing on the radio that here in Melbourne, people are getting booked by the police for non-essential travel. Do you reckon the average copper on the beat would consider driving to your homebrew shop to pick up a pre-arranged order of grain, hops, etc non-essential travel. If you can go to the supermarket and bunnings, what are the odds? Knowing my luck lately, the demons would chuck me in the lock-up for sedition and inciting. Welcome to the future. Ah-choo!


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## Grmblz (7/4/20)

It's grain, you're going to mill it to make bread, an essential food source, and the other stuff is flavouring for it.


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## LorriSanga (7/4/20)

Aren't they an essential service to be open?


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## Grmblz (7/4/20)

LorriSanga said:


> Aren't they an essential service to be open?


Only if they sell food is my understanding (NSW) but all the states are different, who knows? it's a different message every day and in NSW it's the cop that decides whether to fine you or not, talk about a goat fk.


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## thehomebrewchef (8/4/20)

If the bottle shops are still open, there should be no reason you can get booked by heading to the home brew shop. No difference between either driving to the LHBS or the local bottle shop.


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## wide eyed and legless (8/4/20)

thehomebrewchef said:


> If the bottle shops are still open, there should be no reason you can get booked by heading to the home brew shop. No difference between either driving to the LHBS or the local bottle shop.


That's sound home brewers logic, just have to hope that the policeman who pulls you over is a home brewer.


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## Rusted (8/4/20)

If your LHBS was open to customers surely that would indicated that one could venture out to that particular shop? Or put another way, your LHBS would not be open if 100% of their customers were risking fines or imprisonment just for entering their premises.


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## onemorecell (8/4/20)

In Vic you can go to any shop that isn't prohibited from being open



https://www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/202004/Direction%20-%20Stay%20at%20Home%20No.3%20%28signed%29.pdf


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## CyriusBrew (9/4/20)

In NZ, all of the LHBS were shut down as soon as we went to the Level 4 lockdown. One could not even order a packet of yeast or grain and get it delivered, much less go to the shop.
Since then, some of the shops have been opened up as they serve essential companies. (breweries, not home brewers). They could only take online orders. Finally there are some that are now open, and they only take online orders. However, every homebrewer is inundating them with orders, so they are understandably slow to communicate or get the orders out. (Driving is not an option, and you will get done for driving any distance from your home.)
You are probably still in a slightly better position from the homebrewer's perspective in Aus.


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## Vini2ton (10/4/20)

You fellas, our ANZAC brothers, are probably in a better perspective as far as the covid-19 goes. Mind you, my arm feels much better since I realized I had to stay home and self-isolate. First off I thought they said I had to self-violate.


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## CyriusBrew (10/4/20)

Vini2ton said:


> You fellas, our ANZAC brothers, are probably in a better perspective as far as the covid-19 goes. Mind you, my arm feels much better since I realized I had to stay home and self-isolate. First off I thought they said I had to self-violate.



In all fairness, if things keep going this way, self violation will be the only sport available.


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## Vini2ton (10/4/20)

At least you know there will never be a draw. Hang on, both hands. Gigeddy.


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## Grmblz (11/4/20)

Cops here make the call about when to fine or not and just pulled over 2 guys in a ute (tradies on the way to a job) "you two related?" "nope" "well here's $1000 fine each, and $5000 to the company, you should be in separate vehicles" We're still hurting financially here from the fires, we're a tourist town so no Xmas income and now no Easter, jobs at a premium shops closed, I understand the need for social distancing but am I the only one that senses a bit of revenue raising going on here, these guys can work on site together but apparently not travel together. Bit like radar cops always sit at the bottom of a hill never at the top, at the top they'll only get speeders but at the bottom they also get the unwary, and claim it's about safety I call BS. Feel free to disagree, maybe I'm being a bit paranoid but I can't help the feeling that the government needs to get back as much money as it can to pay for the handouts, and fining these two guys for being in a work vehicle together, when if they were sitting on a park bench they'd be ok is a bit much.


----------



## Truman42 (11/4/20)

I can't believe all the conspiracy theory wack jobs that have come out with their crazy theories. Covid19 is a man made biological weapon made by the Chinese to take over the world. 
Covid19 is caused by 5G and has the same symptoms. 5G is a way to break down our brains defence mechanism so when they implant the vaccine chip in us we will become AI and can be controlled. Theres an FB group called David Icke super group. This fucktard (Who was told by spirits he is a Godhead..lol) has all these followers who say all the people in hospitals on TV in the UK are just dummies, no one is dying from Covid19. Yeah right and millions of doctors nurses and ES people are in on it too??? 

What a bunch of absolute ******* morons...


----------



## Blackman (11/4/20)

Grmblz said:


> Cops here make the call about when to fine or not and just pulled over 2 guys in a ute (tradies on the way to a job) "you two related?" "nope" "well here's $1000 fine each, and $5000 to the company, you should be in separate vehicles" We're still hurting financially here from the fires, we're a tourist town so no Xmas income and now no Easter, jobs at a premium shops closed, I understand the need for social distancing but am I the only one that senses a bit of revenue raising going on here, these guys can work on site together but apparently not travel together. Bit like radar cops always sit at the bottom of a hill never at the top, at the top they'll only get speeders but at the bottom they also get the unwary, and claim it's about safety I call BS. Feel free to disagree, maybe I'm being a bit paranoid but I can't help the feeling that the government needs to get back as much money as it can to pay for the handouts, and fining these two guys for being in a work vehicle together, when if they were sitting on a park bench they'd be ok is a bit much.


I sympathize with communities that rely on tourism, they are taking a double hit. After the bushfires people were told to stay away. Now they have to stay away due to COVID19.
But Grmblz, sitting on a park bench in open air and sitting in a car (confined space) with .5 of a meter between you is completely different!!


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## Grmblz (13/4/20)

Blackman said:


> I sympathize with communities that rely on tourism, they are taking a double hit. After the bushfires people were told to stay away. Now they have to stay away due to COVID19.
> But Grmblz, sitting on a park bench in open air and sitting in a car (confined space) with .5 of a meter between you is completely different!!


Yeah I get it, and it's a fair call, but wouldn't a warning have been in order, I mean the messages/rules have been changing every day, I still don't know if I can drive to Sydney to collect building gear, I asked the local cops and got a "I wouldn't have a problem with it but someone else might) wtf? even the cops don't know!


----------



## petesbrew (17/4/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> My wife is on face book, this morning she happened to show me a post someone had put up, 'Isn't this lovely' The biggest load of garbage I have read, 'Every one should self isolate read and be at peace for a month, after the month is over we emerge like butterfly's mending relationships with peace and love for all mankind'. Despite my argument that in real life, folk have been fighting over toilet rolls, supermarket staff spat at and punched, a staff member stabbed, hoarders are no better than looters, arguments and fights among the pensioner hour outside supermarkets. She refuses to see my point of view until karma struck. Today she lost her (not inexpensive watch) inside Coles and it wasn't handed in. Though I was somewhat pleased, I now know what she will be wanting for her birthday in a weeks time.


Lol, yeah seen a few posts similar. Rainbows, and cute puppydog gifs will save us all, right?

Definitely some massive fucktard behaviour that comes out in humanity, as shown on the news. Try your best to not join in with them. As Buddha said, "Don't be a malaka".


----------



## Danscraftbeer (19/4/20)

I guess some people should feel blessed, or cursed
to see the stupidity rather than be one of the stupid?
Ignorance has bliss etc  with much confusion in a massive subdued population.
It kills me to see the local boat ramps (cams) showing the empty car park and I cant even go fishing.
There is nothing more isolated than going fishing out there in a boat away from everything etc. That's a $1600 fine to start with. Then maybe terrorist line of judgment too?
Next thought when they release these lock downs? I hope its not crazy. So many people wanting to do things held back like an excited dog times millions.

Crossed fingers for all.


----------



## CyriusBrew (21/4/20)

petesbrew said:


> Lol, yeah seen a few posts similar. Rainbows, and cute puppydog gifs will save us all, right?
> ....



Well...I know our death count in NZ is quite low and it is due to social distancing and locking us down to where we have to stay in our houses..
BUT,
There have been studies on prisons in the USA on inmates that were put into solitary confinement that have shown severe mental health impacts. We are basically doing the same thing to innocent people. The depression, anxiety, and other mental health issues combined with job losses and the usual life distractions will cost lives. I am not fully convinced all of this is worth the social and economic costs we are all paying.
Heck, closing down every business that is not a grocery store or pharmacy is just mad. Even when it comes to online purchases, the companies can not be open unless they get a dispensasion from MBIE as they may be in the supply cycle of an 'essential business'.
/rant


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## Grmblz (21/4/20)

I'm in the "dead if I get it" category, but I wonder if the cure is worse than the disease, and there's the possibility that the toll on society will be greater with what we are doing as opposed to doing nothing, the effects of this are going to echo for years, yet when someone commits suicide or worse kills someone in 2 yrs time no one will attribute the act to the effects of corona virus. It remains to be seen but Sweden's herd immunity strategy may just be what we all should have done, either way it looks like we're headed for a global recession and if that's the case there'll be a metric shit-ton of bodies to deal with. Sorry folks, next post will be bright and sunny.


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## Tomo (21/4/20)

Do you have elderly family.


----------



## Grmblz (21/4/20)

Tomo said:


> Do you have elderly family.


I'm elderly, and have underlying conditions which is why I'm dead if I get it. and I'm not advocating doing nothing, just pointing out that we have a rather short sited simplistic view of what is going to become a very complicated problem, and there is more than one way of tackling it.


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## YAPN (22/4/20)

Grmblz said:


> It remains to be seen but Sweden's herd immunity strategy may just be what we all should have done


We could not go down the path of Sweden. Their health service has not been reduced by austerity economics, like Italy. They have plenty of ICU beds and ventilators and plans to close down businesses if it comes to that. 

We're not doing too badly, though.


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## Rusted (22/4/20)

Not sure I would want to be in Sweden. They have one of the highest rates of infection globally, currently sitting at 0.15% of the population and a mortality rate currently sitting at 11.5%, which I believe is currently about the third or fourth highest globally.

Put another way, in Sweden you (currently) have a 1 in 659 chance of catching Covid-19 and if you do catch it you have a 1 in 8.7 chance of dying from it.

If that stat doesn't scare the shit out you, then try this one - 1 in 5,714 Swedes have already died from Covid-19 in the 41 days since they record their first death.

Rather be here in Oz...


----------



## shacked (22/4/20)

Rusted said:


> Not sure I would want to be in Sweden. They have one of the highest rates of infection globally, currently sitting at 0.15% of the population and a mortality rate currently sitting at 11.5%, which I believe is currently about the third or fourth highest globally.
> 
> Put another way, in Sweden you (currently) have a 1 in 659 chance of catching Covid-19 and if you do catch it you have a 1 in 8.7 chance of dying from it.
> 
> ...



I think these stats, like most others, are skewed by a lack of testing. Asymptomatic carriers aren't getting tested which makes all of the extrapolated population stats a little unreliable. Time will tell and I guess there isn't any correct way to respond to something unprecendented.


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## Rusted (22/4/20)

shacked said:


> I think these stats, like most others, are skewed by a lack of testing. Asymptomatic carriers aren't getting tested which makes all of the extrapolated population stats a little unreliable. Time will tell and I guess there isn't any correct way to respond to something unprecendented.


Yes, you are correct. With the benefit of a rear vision mirror history will be the judge.

Thing with stats is that they are notoriously difficult to interpret with 100% reliability. They simply give you orders of magnitude and directional guidance. We currently don't know how many asymptomatic carriers are in the community, wont know until anti-body testing catches up. But lack of asymptomatic testing doesn't skew the "deaths per million population" statistic, which for Sweden is frightening.

Anyway, I can only hope other Australians (and our Kiwi cousins) stay can stay safe, sane and solvent for a little while longer.


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## pharmaboy (22/4/20)

Rusted said:


> Not sure I would want to be in Sweden. They have one of the highest rates of infection globally, currently sitting at 0.15% of the population and a mortality rate currently sitting at 11.5%, which I believe is currently about the third or fourth highest globally.
> 
> Put another way, in Sweden you (currently) have a 1 in 659 chance of catching Covid-19 and if you do catch it you have a 1 in 8.7 chance of dying from it.
> 
> ...



Sweden have done around half the rate of testing than Australia with 5 times the number of confirmed cases (by rate).

You are comparing a cider to a stout. They are only testing ill people, and have elected to let the community decide how it runs. The only way we will substantially beat them, is if we get a vaccine in a timely fashion.

ATM, they do not have an overwhelmed ICU, so people are getting treated - its not like Lombardy, where beds were in the aisles.

In 5 months time, sitting in australia in the midst of the worst depression on record, with still no vaccine in sight, and looking across to much of europe who have gone back to normal with recovering economies, things might look very different, and Sweden could easily be the country that played the very best hand.

We sure as hell dont know yet though


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## wide eyed and legless (22/4/20)

Initially I was with the herd immunity course of action, the problem with it is the outcry at the deaths in a short time, and the pressure it would put on the health service. So keeping our heads down and a very gradual return to normality will keep the pressure off the health system, but longer term damage to the economy.


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## Grmblz (22/4/20)

Rusted said:


> Rather be here in Oz...


Completely agree at this point in time, my concern is what the picture will look like in a year or two if we enter a massive recession.
Personally I'm very lucky, no mortgage and a secure pension, NOT "self funded" I have friends almost crying at what the stock market is doing to their "future" they can see themselves on a government pension by the time this all plays out, and that's not what they planned for.
I started this discussion as a way to address the elephant in the room, and would like to thank all that have commented in a thoughtful and non derisive manner, whatever your opinion may be.
A while back I made the comment "this isn't the Spanish dancer" I was wrong, just as wrong as "unprecedented" the precedent being 1918, the difference this time of course is global communication with information but also the media hype/speculation. 1918 was devastating but gives us an insight into the outcome of the Swedish approach, I'm no historian but I'm pretty sure we didn't have a recession in 1919/20, and now to the other elephant in the room, the D word, if the world goes into a global Depression!!! Well I hope you've got a veggie patch, after WW2 in Northern England my grandad kept rabbits in hutches in his back yard (protein) and we weren't actually in a depression, I believe in Australia rabbits kept a lot of folks from starvation, and it was considered "ok" if you slaughtered someones sheep for meat as long as you left the fleece hanging on the fence, during "the depression" I paint a bleak picture, and sincerely hope it doesn't come to this, but I think it needs to be discussed. Happy to be corrected btw on any of the Aussie stuff pominoz since 1985.


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## wide eyed and legless (22/4/20)

Police Uncover Suspected Illegal Abattoir at House in Telford, England


Police officers in Telford, England, have arrested seven men after uncovering a suspected illegal abattoir at a blood-spattered house.




www.breitbart.com




When the boat comes in episode 'Fish in wooly jumpers'


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## Roosterboy (22/4/20)

What really shits me is this was predicted to happen eventually , we spend billions on our military , billions on insurance of all
kinds and Governments around the world hadn't planned for this. A pathogen not much more than a bunch of amino acids and
it can bring the world to a stop. I think many things are going to be looked at after this, the responsibility of The WHO in pandemics,
the speed of closing borders, the ability of countries to make their own PPE and sanitisers not just buy from China, cruise ship hygiene,
the budget for virology research by Governments , even the freedom to hop over borders in Europe will probably be looked at. It will be
a different world for a while until the current bean counters around the world are replaced by the next generation and the lessons are
forgotten.


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## Grmblz (22/4/20)

Those that forget the lessons of the past are condemned to repeat them, and for you god bothers out there no it's not from your book, it's LOGIC!
@Rooster Common knowledge about cruise ships is an outbreak of gastro/flu whatever infects the whole ship, they don't advertise it of course but it's just the way it is. Buying from China comes down to our greed, don't blame China, and don't get me started on bean counters. Always happy to be corrected.


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## wide eyed and legless (10/7/20)

Another 6 weeks of lock down, much as I would like to blame Andrews, I can't seeing it all being his fault. Maybe they should have checked that the security guards sanitary regime was up to scratch, everything else could only really be foreseen in hind sight. He could never have stopped the protest march without risking police facing lock downs. We just have to switch off and wait it out, even though its still going to be there when the six weeks is over.


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## MaggieO (10/7/20)

Positive antibody test three weeks ago. Completely asymptomatic.


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## shacked (10/7/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Another 6 weeks of lock down, much as I would like to blame Andrews, I can't seeing it all being his fault. Maybe they should have checked that the security guards sanitary regime was up to scratch, everything else could only really be foreseen in hind sight. He could never have stopped the protest march without risking police facing lock downs. We just have to switch off and wait it out, even though its still going to be there when the six weeks is over.



Gee whiz mate, good luck. I hope you've got your brew supplies sorted!


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## clickeral (10/7/20)

shacked said:


> Gee whiz mate, good luck. I hope you've got your brew supplies sorted!



Also in Melbourne, moving house next week, have half a ton of grain and about 40kg of hops I am sorted  

Partner is currently doing covid tests in the lab, getting through upto 1200 tests a day. Not her normal role but the business she works for is happy she volenteered as she has lab expirence. Been doing 6-7day weeks, had to tell her off the other day as she worked 10days straight (10-12hr days) 

Not overly happy about being locked down but tbh ive got things to do and can work from home, also saves me 2hour commute a day


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## clickeral (10/7/20)

MaggieO said:


> Positive antibody test three weeks ago. Completely asymptomatic.



Mind if I ask who you got that through? I was under the impression they didnt have an accurate test yet


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## Vini2ton (10/7/20)

I think MaggieO is in the US. I could be wrong.


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## wide eyed and legless (10/7/20)

shacked said:


> Gee whiz mate, good luck. I hope you've got your brew supplies sorted!


Got plenty of ingredients, I think I may be in need of a new right kidney, its been giving me some gyp. So in regards to having a drink, I'm about as useful as a one legged man in an arse kicking contest.


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## wide eyed and legless (10/7/20)

Vini2ton said:


> I think MaggieO is in the US. I could be wrong.


No your not wrong he lives in USA


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## MaggieO (11/7/20)

clickeral said:


> Mind if I ask who you got that through? I was under the impression they didnt have an accurate test yet



I am in the states. My doctors practice is connected to one of the major local universities medical department.

Anyway, he said they are finding the test they are using is 95% accurate. I feel pretty lucky.


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## razz (11/7/20)

MaggieO said:


> I am in the states. My doctors practice is connected to one of the major local universities medical department.
> 
> Anyway, he said they are finding the test they are using is 95% accurate. I feel pretty lucky.


Good luck and stay safe mate. Hope you're not in Arizona, wherever you are, take care.


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## yankinoz (11/7/20)

Fro-Daddy said:


> ArcGIS Dashboards
> 
> I look at this pretty often to see what's going on.
> 
> China's numbers have 'stopped rising' for a while so I wouldn't believe their total.



When China's reported cases nearly stopped, so did their reported deaths. Becauser of the course of clinical disease, generally at leasty two week to death and often much more, the death count should have risen for some time. Their authorities are poor liars and almost certainly have understated cases and deaths.

Still, reports from around China suggest they largely achieved control but may be playing whack-a-mole with outbreaks.

Then there's Russia, where a very reported low death rate conflicts with unofficial accounts from hospitals (where there three doctors supposedly fell out of windows in one week). Or India, where authorities acknowledge problems in their data.

Death rates are falling. One certain cause is the lowering of average ages of infected persons as older ones shelter and younger ones party. To know how much that accounts for would require age-specific death rates. Other suggested possibilities are deliberate misidentification of cause of death and declining virulence of the virus.

At this point the results of the different antigen tests vary too much to accept them as gospel.


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## Vini2ton (11/7/20)

So if someone is asymtomatic, do they have an elevated temperature? And as brewers we know some of these thermometers just have got to be dodgy. It truly is the new-age, (apologies to any hippies on the site). I'm in Victoria so I think I'll start panic-brewing again.


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## yankinoz (11/7/20)

Vini2ton said:


> So if someone is asymtomatic, do they have an elevated temperature? And as brewers we know some of these thermometers just have got to be dodgy. It truly is the new-age, (apologies to any hippies on the site). I'm in Victoria so I think I'll start panic-brewing again.


Elevated temperature is a symptom. Unreported cases are not necessarily asymptomatic. They include people with symptoms that are not severe and who either don't believe they have COVID-19 or believe it and don't want to report it.


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## MaggieO (12/7/20)

Vini2ton said:


> So if someone is asymtomatic, do they have an elevated temperature? And as brewers we know some of these thermometers just have got to be dodgy. It truly is the new-age, (apologies to any hippies on the site). I'm in Victoria so I think I'll start panic-brewing again.



My wife and I had no symptoms period. No fever, cough, nothing.


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## Vini2ton (12/7/20)

So screening people with thermometers is a waste of time because people with no elevated temperature or other flu-like symptoms could potentially be spreading the virus? Is that how it is? I just last week heard of agricultural labour travelling to and from work sites, all in the same mini-buses, no social distancing. After arrival they had the thermometer pointed at them before they start work. I guess this may get alot worse before it gets better.


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## YAPN (12/7/20)

Vini2ton said:


> Is that how it is?


Yep. 

Screening for temp has it's flaws but it's the best we can do. My guess is that, since the public does not want self-isolate and follow the rules, we may as well go the way of Sweden.


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## MaggieO (13/7/20)

YAPN said:


> Yep.
> 
> Screening for temp has it's flaws but it's the best we can do. My guess is that, since the public does not want self-isolate and follow the rules, we may as well go the way of Sweden.



At least if half the people with it are running a fever you can catch half the people. 

There is theory that those people that are asymptomatic are spreading it far less than people that really have it bad.


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## YAPN (13/7/20)

MaggieO said:


> people that are asymptomatic are spreading it far less than people that really have it bad


I can believe that. What worries me is that people in my suburb don't seem to care about the virus at all.


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## MaggieO (13/7/20)

YAPN said:


> I can believe that. What worries me is that people in my suburb don't seem to care about the virus at all.



When this thing started the world was thinking getting it was a death sentence. Now it doesn't seem to be too bad. People are getting tired of isolating, no sports, limited restaurant options. They are not seeing their friends and family dying off like they expected. People are no longer convinced all the isolating etcetera is helpful.


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## wide eyed and legless (13/7/20)

Probably a good thing it was Covid-19 that came out of China and demonstrated how much many nations weren't prepared for a pandemic. Could just as easily have been Avian flu, once it has figured out how to infect human to human effectively, a death rate of 60% is likely


----------



## YAPN (13/7/20)

MaggieO said:


> a death sentence


Half of one percent (mortality/infection ratio) was predicted and that has turned out to be true enough. What the public does not see is the disruption this causes inside our hospitals. Surgeons, doctors and nurses are absolutely filthy at the behaviour of the general public.


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## Vini2ton (13/7/20)

As an older person, my main concern for my own self is to catch it, recover, and be left with affected cardio/pulmonary issues. Pulmonary Fibrosis is real bummer. My mother suffered from it. Strokes appear to be another issue with it. Of course as they say, never under-estimate the stupidity of the general public.


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## Darom (13/7/20)

MaggieO said:


> At least if half the people with it are running a fever you can catch half the people.
> 
> There is theory that those people that are asymptomatic are spreading it far less than people that really have it bad.


That would make sense, those with it bad would be coughing, possible runny nose ect. More chance of fluid exchange.


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## wide eyed and legless (21/7/20)

Face masks mandatory tomorrow in Melbourne Metro, even when driving, try not to look to shifty.


----------



## Vini2ton (21/7/20)




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## MaggieO (21/7/20)

YAPN said:


> Half of one percent (mortality/infection ratio) was predicted and that has turned out to be true enough. What the public does not see is the disruption this causes inside our hospitals. Surgeons, doctors and nurses are absolutely filthy at the behaviour of the general public.



Here where I'm at the hospitals were mandated to prep for COVID-19 cases. All elective surgery was canceled or postponed. Lots of cancer patients going untreated. Suddenly, they're laying off hospital employees because there isn't anything for a lot of the staff to do. For those areas that are operating they're saying it's just business as usual.


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## gplans (22/7/20)

No you do not have to where one while driving.

DO YOU HAVE TO WEAR A MASK WHILE DRIVING ?

If you are driving in a car by yourself or with a member of your household, you do not need to wear a face mask but you should carry one with you for when you exit the vehicle. If you are in a car with other people for work or rideshare purposes then you must wear a mask.


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## Vini2ton (23/7/20)

View attachment 118644
View attachment 118644


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## Vini2ton (23/7/20)

sorry, something fd up


----------



## Feldon (3/7/21)

Interesting.

_Eric Clapton: Exclusive & Uncensored_


----------



## BrewLizard (3/7/21)

Disappointing, but at least reassuring that his friends are distancing themselves from him. I only made it through 5 minutes before googling the story, but the one accurate statement Clapton made was "I'm not a scientist".

I hadn't kept up with Van Morrison becoming part of the tin-foil hat crew either.

It's a shame that by being a celebrity, you can do so much more damage than by being a qualified (non-celebrity) professional.


----------



## Feldon (23/12/21)

Interesting view from a UK medico on the direction Australia is now taking:

_The Australian Protocol

 
_


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## yankinoz (25/12/21)

Re Covid mortality:

In the early stages of the pandemic, deaths worldwide ran close to two percent of reported cases. Estimates of unreported cases varied, but may have been enough to lower case mortality rates to not much over one percent.

Treatment has improved, and I don't mean Ivermectin.

When cases are rapidly increasing, as in NSW now, dividing deaths by reported cases gives a misleadingly low estimate of mortality. Deaths generally occur at least a week after symptoms or a positive test, usually two to four weeks, sometimes longer. Therefore, the deaths are in people infected when case rates were lower.


----------



## Nick the Knife (25/12/21)

Just a general comment - not in any manner angled at AHB members - but is it just me but I really miss the times where people who didn't REALLY know about something shut the phark up and let people who are actual experts on the subject area give their expertise for all.

I don't mind it if it's one's gospel truth/insider secrets on how to make that perfect sponge cake or getting the toilet clean but when it comes to stuff like a constantly evolving globalpandemic it'd be nice if people had a vague idea of what their true knowledge is and traded well within it's limits.


----------



## yankinoz (25/12/21)

Nick the Knife said:


> Just a general comment - not in any manner angled at AHB members - but is it just me but I really miss the times where people who didn't REALLY know about something shut the phark up and let people who are actual experts on the subject area give their expertise for all.
> 
> I don't mind it if it's one's gospel truth/insider secrets on how to make that perfect sponge cake or getting the toilet clean but when it comes to stuff like a constantly evolving globalpandemic it'd be nice if people had a vague idea of what their true knowledge is and traded well within it's limits.



I take your point about not aiming at anyone, but for the record I spent twenty-five years doing historical population studies,. That often entailed reconstructing causes of mortality. But my above comments were basic math.

Outside AHB, yes, many people wade into the subject in a reckless manner, but my main quarrel is that they cherrypick data to serve a political agenda.


----------



## Feldon (25/12/21)

“You may abuse a tragedy, though you cannot write one. You may scold a carpenter who has made you a bad table, though you cannot make a table. It is not your trade to make tables.”

attrib. Samuel Johnson, in James Boswell’s _Life of Johnson_


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## raybies (26/12/21)

Nick the Knife said:


> I really miss the times where people who didn't REALLY know about something shut the phark up and let people who are actual experts on the subject area give their expertise for all.


Where were these times? Outsourcing cognition has always been the relm of the feeble minded.

What we have now is a case of the experts, some of whom invented the technology, advising you not to perform an action, and social media deplatforming these experts because politicians are saying you must perform said action "because the science says so", and YOU can not question the science.

If there was ever a time not to outsource your cognition, this is it.


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## BrewLizard (26/12/21)

Is that a deliberately vague way of saying you disagree with current public health recommendations?


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## raybies (26/12/21)

BrewLizard said:


> Is that a deliberately vague way of saying you disagree with current public health recommendations?


I like to follow the science, however in this instance the FDA/Pfizer is asking for 75 yrs to release the clinical trial documents, because as you know, nothing says follow the science like wait 75 years. So I guess we've all got a very long wait before we know if Comirnaty is safe and effective.


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## MHB (26/12/21)

I think that is very misleading, true there is a FOI request in front of a court, the FDA maintain that they only have enough staff to vet the relevant documents at something like 100 pages per week and that that rate it will take a ridiculously long time to process all the documents. Bear in mind that they have a lot of other FOI requests to work on as well and that the last administration gutted their budget. Apparently it didn’t like being told that Corona virus was real and that horse worming paste and bleach weren’t valid treatments...

Probably not a case of deliberately trying to hide facts, tho no doubt there are some political machinations going on, given how government works it’s likely to be more about getting their budget back.
Mark


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## chrisfromperth (27/12/21)

I understand the science behind the virus, the rationale behind public health measures, and vaccines. I don't always agree 100% based on my own preconceptions, but I'm going to listen to professionals that do this for a day job.

I also understand aerodynamics and how planes fly. Do you trust me in the front seat of a 747?





Attribution: New Yorker magazine.


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## JDW81 (27/12/21)

Just a comment on vaccines from someone who’s had a bit of exposure to severe COVID over the last 2 years. 

I work directly with COVID patients in ICU and other areas of one of the major Victorian COVID hospitals. From an at the coal face perspective I have seen the effectiveness of the vaccine program. There are very few fully vaccinated people who end up in hospital with COVID and even fewer who end up getting proper sick in ICU. All of the sickest people I’ve been involved with have all been unvaccinated (and almost all chose not to be vaccinated). Those who have been vaccinated and do contract are far less likely to get severe disease and to pass it on (well to the alpha/delta variants at least). They are also far less likely to develop the long COVID syndrome. 

With respect to evidence there are a number of peer reviewed articles available from reputable sources like the NEJM/Lancet which report the results of ongoing RCTs/clinical trials which show the vaccines are effective and safe in the short term (and I consider the 1:3 000 000 chance of dying from a rare blood clotting disorder barely worth mentioning, given the background rate of death from car accidents is around 2-3:100000 - the media has a lot to answer for for this one). These articles appear when you search via your usual search engine

I’ll concede we don’t know the long term safety data, but I’m willing to take the risk, given the burden that the long COVID syndrome is having on people.

I’ll continue to trust the experts I work with on the vaccines and public health measures, just as they trust me to look after their relatives when they are critically ill. I’ll also take notice of what is published in reputable medical journals. I try and avoid opinions, as they mostly come from people with an axe to grind, who wouldn’t know the first thing about critically appraising a robust piece of evidence so choose to do their research on Facebook.

JD


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## MHB (27/12/21)

Big Ups, and thanks for the work you are doing.
I remember talking to my grandmother who was born in 1920 about her growing up in western Queensland. Going to school three kids on a grey mare, the first time she saw an electric light turn on, the first aeroplane and car that came to their town... watching her cry during the first moon landing. She also talked about local kids dying of polio and whooping cough.
Anti-vaxxers are fuckwits! (just a personal opinion)
Mark


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## Mooroolbark_Mick (28/12/21)

JDW81 said:


> Just a comment on vaccines from someone who’s had a bit of exposure to severe COVID over the last 2 years.
> 
> I work directly with COVID patients in ICU and other areas of one of the major Victorian COVID hospitals. From an at the coal face perspective I have seen the effectiveness of the vaccine program. There are very few fully vaccinated people who end up in hospital with COVID and even fewer who end up getting proper sick in ICU. All of the sickest people I’ve been involved with have all been unvaccinated (and almost all chose not to be vaccinated). Those who have been vaccinated and do contract are far less likely to get severe disease and to pass it on (well to the alpha/delta variants at least). They are also far less likely to develop the long COVID syndrome.
> 
> ...


Well written JD!


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## yankinoz (28/12/21)

JDW81 said:


> Just a comment on vaccines from someone who’s had a bit of exposure to severe COVID over the last 2 years.
> 
> . . . I’ll continue to trust the experts I work with on the vaccines and public health measures, just as they trust me
> 
> Do you mind if I forward your full comment to an idiot I know back in the US? Others have said much the same, but yours is particularly well put.


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## Feldon (28/12/21)




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## JDW81 (29/12/21)

@ Yankinoz

Go for it mate.

Plenty of idiots in the US (and here for that matter)!


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## yankinoz (29/12/21)

JDW81 said:


> @ Yankinoz
> 
> Go for it mate.
> 
> Plenty of idiots in the US (and here for that matter)!



Thank you. Will do.


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## raybies (29/12/21)

JDW81 said:


> Just a comment on vaccines from someone who’s had a bit of exposure to severe COVID over the last 2 years.
> 
> I work directly with COVID patients in ICU and other areas of one of the major Victorian COVID hospitals. From an at the coal face perspective I have seen the effectiveness of the vaccine program. There are very few fully vaccinated people who end up in hospital with COVID and even fewer who end up getting proper sick in ICU. All of the sickest people I’ve been involved with have all been unvaccinated (and almost all chose not to be vaccinated). Those who have been vaccinated and do contract are far less likely to get severe disease and to pass it on (well to the alpha/delta variants at least). They are also far less likely to develop the long COVID syndrome.
> 
> ...


What is the current protocol for treating covid positive patients prior to needing hospital care and what is it once in hospital?


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## JDW81 (29/12/21)

raybies said:


> What is the current protocol for treating covid positive patients prior to needing hospital care and what is it once in hospital?



I can't speak for those people in the community, as I only work in hospital.

With respect to hospital management where I work (I suspect it is similar at most other health services):

Everyone who presents is considered to have COVID until proven otherwise, although there is a risk stratification process based on where they live, recent contacts, symptoms and how they have presented to hospital. So, if you get pissed while brewing, spill your wort and burn your legs you'll be considered lower risk than someone presenting with respiratory symptoms/fevers etc. If you need admission you will get a PCR test and be required to isolate if considered high risk. Everyone who is admitted has to be tested. ED functions as if everyone has COVID and they wear full PPE for all patient contact (as there has been a number of asymptomatic cases presenting with other ailments). The operating theatres also presume you have COVID if you don't have a negative PCR. COVID positive theatre cases are a real challenge, as there is limited gear in the room (only the absolute necessary equipment) and depending on what you need it can take a a bit of time to source.

For those presenting for elective surgery/obstetrics you have to have a negative PCR result within 72 hours (I think) and the isolate at home until you rock up. 

If you're COVID positive and need admission you'll either go to the general COVID isolation ward, or if sick enough, the designated COVID ICU. You're considered COVID cleared after a certain period (it was 21 days at one stage, but not sure what it is now) and then you get put back in a general ward if you still need hospital care. You will still test positive for quite a while after the infection has resolved though (I think it is for a few months).

If you've got COVID there's a bunch of treatments you get (steroids/monoclonal antibody therapy/antibiotics) which depend on how sick you are. 

I'm sure this will all change, given the current upsurge in cases.


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