# Mangrove Jack's M31 Belgian Tripel.



## Killer Brew (4/2/18)

Anyone had experience with this yeast? I have a pack in the fridge and was going to knock something together. Large fermentation range given of 18 degrees - 28 degrees. Am wondering what to expect flavour wise at either end of that scale. Esters? Sulphur?

More info: will be making something in a Trappist style to around 6%


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## Coodgee (4/2/18)

@Matplat was this the yeast you used for the blonde?


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## Matplat (5/2/18)

Unfortunately not, I used M41...

I have used M31 before in a belgian pale ale though, the hydro samples were great but by the time the bottles were carbed something else had taken over and destroyed the flavour


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## Coodgee (5/2/18)

well M41 makes a bloody nice drop!


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## Killer Brew (5/2/18)

Thanks anyway guys. I will try a ferment in the middle of that range and report back.


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## mongey (6/2/18)

Killer Brew said:


> Anyone had experience with this yeast? I have a pack in the fridge and was going to knock something together. Large fermentation range given of 18 degrees - 28 degrees. Am wondering what to expect flavour wise at either end of that scale. Esters? Sulphur?
> 
> More info: will be making something in a Trappist style to around 6%



I have a Belgian IPA , coopers extract recepie, ready to be bottled with it .turned out about 6.5% was hoping to bottle last weekend but was kids birthday party so had no time . The samples are tasting great . I fermented at 23-24 and went off like a cracker.

flavor wise i have only sipped the sample but it gave a little bannaish quality in a Belgian way form what I tasted 

I was going to use M41 but shop was out so figured i just have a bash with the 31


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## mongey (12/2/18)

bottled my M31 beer on Saturday and it tasted really good out of the fermenter . Usually at bottling just put a little into a scotch glass to have a few sips and check it out but after a taste I poured a full glass

def a good whack of bannna .

hopefully it doesn't change for the worse with age like Matplat's beer


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## Dazza88 (12/2/18)

Are you guys using m31 and m41 using one pack or more? Starter or just rehydrate?


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## mongey (13/2/18)

Dazza88 said:


> Are you guys using m31 and m41 using one pack or more? Starter or just rehydrate?



I only used 1 but OG was only 1058,but it got down to 1006 .

I'm ghetto. I just sprinkled in the dry yeast .i never rehydrate and I always get good attenuation


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## Matplat (13/2/18)

I made a 2l starter with 1 pack and harvested some before pitching the rest.... 1060 to 1008


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## Matplat (13/2/18)

And I pitched at 20 and let it rise to 26 over 3-4 days.


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## Dazza88 (13/2/18)

Cheers guys.


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## TheSumOfAllBeers (13/2/18)

Always rehydrate. You lose half your cells on contact with the wort otherwise. Which might still be enough to attenuate fully but you could stress your yeast.

Never make a starter with dried yeast.


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## Dazza88 (13/2/18)

I've basically bought a number of MJ strains but not m31. I am considering trying a MJ Belgian strain in the future but I have a few other beers in the queue beforehand. Currently brewing an IPA on M44 slurry, its almost fg in 3 days. Prior brew was a pale ale using 2 packets of M44. I find it interesting that MJ have a number of strains for higher alcohol beers but they are sold in standard sized packets so to brew a big Belgian with M31 at a suitable pitch rate you need to go multiple packs or a starter. I will be brewing an 1.092 RIS with M42 (new world strong ale) and will make a 2-litre starter (not buying 3.5 thus 4 packs). There are lots of good comments about M42, M44 seem mixed. I'm fairly happy with M44 pale ale but it needs further conditioning. Kinda derailing here but researching how people are using MJ yeasts for repitching and on big beers.


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## Killer Brew (14/2/18)

Dazza88 said:


> Are you guys using m31 and m41 using one pack or more? Starter or just rehydrate?


I made a 1L starter using 1 pack for a 23L wort at 1.055


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## Killer Brew (14/2/18)

TheSumOfAllBeers said:


> Never make a starter with dried yeast.



Why?


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## Dazza88 (14/2/18)

Killer Brew said:


> Why?


I thought the don't make a starter with dried yeast argument was based on cost. But a few dollars of DME would be cheaper than three extra packs offered yeast


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## TheSumOfAllBeers (14/2/18)

Killer Brew said:


> Why?



Dried yeast is packaged with enough nutrients to allow the yeast to grow and fully ferment the rated volume/gravity if wort.

When you make a starter, those nutrients are wasted when you decant the liquor from the slurry.


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## Dazza88 (15/2/18)

TheSumOfAllBeers said:


> Dried yeast is packaged with enough nutrients to allow the yeast to grow and fully ferment the rated volume/gravity if wort.
> 
> When you make a starter, those nutrients are wasted when you decant the liquor from the slurry.


So what do you suggest if my wort is needing 4 packs of dried yeast? 24L of 1.092 sg wort.


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## goatchop41 (15/2/18)

TheSumOfAllBeers said:


> Never make a starter with dried yeast.



100% incorrect there mate. If you don't have enough cells, and don't want to/can't buy more packs, then a starter is necessary.



TheSumOfAllBeers said:


> Dried yeast is packaged with enough nutrients to allow the yeast to grow and fully ferment the rated volume/gravity if wort.
> 
> When you make a starter, those nutrients are wasted when you decant the liquor from the slurry.



This is only relevant if you have a sufficient cell count. It doesn't matter a shite if you need more cells. Yes, they will use up those nutrients in the starter, but they will also gain new nutrients from the starter (even more so if you're smart enought to through some yeast nutrient in there or the wort).

People need to stop saying this "don't make a starter with dry yeast" shit. There are situations where making a starter for it is warranted. Some people can't just go and buy another pack. What they should be saying is "if you want to make a starter with dried yeast, make sure that you rehydrate it before adding it to the starter medium".


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## goatchop41 (15/2/18)

Dazza88 said:


> So what do you suggest if my wort is needing 4 packs of dried yeast? 24L of 1.092 sg wort.


Don't worry about it mate. Rehydrate the yeast, then pitch it in to a sufficiently sized starter (use an online pitching calculator to work it out) and you'll be fine


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## Dazza88 (15/2/18)

Chers goatchop, i will do a starter for said brew


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## Mr B (15/2/18)

I’ve read all the hype, and get good results with starters.

Normal practice is to step up 1g of dried yeast to the requisite size. 

Usually 3-400ml then 2.5-3 odd litres for 45l batches, gravity dependent. 


Starter wort comes from making a little extra in each batch, including yeast nutrient


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## Dazza88 (15/2/18)

Nice Mr b. Wow start with 1g. How r u storing the remainder of the pack? Any special considerations? The yeast companies say it must be used in a manner of days after opening I presume due to contamination concerns.


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## TheSumOfAllBeers (15/2/18)

Dazza88 said:


> So what do you suggest if my wort is needing 4 packs of dried yeast? 24L of 1.092 sg wort.



I would use 4 packs of yeast. You really need the pitch rate for the high gravity stuff. I wouldn't risk a whole batch because I was corner cutting on the yeast.

Although if I could plan my beers better, I would make a trappist single, and pitch onto the dregs of it.


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## Killer Brew (16/2/18)

TheSumOfAllBeers said:


> Dried yeast is packaged with enough nutrients to allow the yeast to grow and fully ferment the rated volume/gravity if wort.
> 
> When you make a starter, those nutrients are wasted when you decant the liquor from the slurry.


Nah. If you need a certain number of cells not achievable through one pack then you either buy extra packets or use a starter to hit that number. It really is no different to liquid yeast.


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## Killer Brew (16/2/18)

TheSumOfAllBeers said:


> I would use 4 packs of yeast. You really need the pitch rate for the high gravity stuff. I wouldn't risk a whole batch because I was corner cutting on the yeast.
> 
> Although if I could plan my beers better, I would make a trappist single, and pitch onto the dregs of it.



You are ok with pitching on the dregs but don't think you can do starters with dried yeast? What's the difference?


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## Killer Brew (16/2/18)

Dazza88 said:


> Nice Mr b. Wow start with 1g. How r u storing the remainder of the pack? Any special considerations? The yeast companies say it must be used in a manner of days after opening I presume due to contamination concerns.


Keep it simple. Pitch a pack into a 1L starter using 100g of DME. Usually around 1.040


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## goatchop41 (16/2/18)

TheSumOfAllBeers said:


> I would use 4 packs of yeast. You really need the pitch rate for the high gravity stuff. I wouldn't risk a whole batch because I was corner cutting on the yeast.



This doesn't make sense.

You can increase the cell count OR make a sufficiently sized starter. What about that don't you seem to understand? As I said, some people may not be able to buy more packs of that particular dry yeast.
It's not cutting corners to make a starter....



TheSumOfAllBeers said:


> Although if I could plan my beers better, I would make a trappist single, and pitch onto the dregs of it.



And that would probably be overpitching, if it were a regular gravity tripel


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## Mr B (24/2/18)

Dazza88 said:


> Nice Mr b. Wow start with 1g. How r u storing the remainder of the pack? Any special considerations? The yeast companies say it must be used in a manner of days after opening I presume due to contamination concerns.



I vac seal the remainder each time, and keep it in the fridge


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## Killer Brew (4/3/18)

Just closing the loop and reporting back on this one. 

This yeast delivered satisfactory flavours when fermented at 25 degrees. Banana and clove / peppery esters consistent to style. A fast ferment as you would expect at that temp with candy syrup and had reasonable attentiveness. Good flocculation dropping very clear with cold conditioning and no finings. However with bottle conditioning the dropped yeast is very powdery and it's difficult not to end up with a cloudy beer when pouring the final third of the bottle.

In all a solid yeast that produced a very tasty beer in my opinion and I would use again.


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## GurraG (3/5/18)

Do you recall what the attenuation was? I've read a lot about the crazy high attenuation of this yeast.


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## hoppy2B (7/5/18)

Dazza88 said:


> Nice Mr b. Wow start with 1g. How r u storing the remainder of the pack? Any special considerations? The yeast companies say it must be used in a manner of days after opening I presume due to contamination concerns.



I always make starters when using dried yeast, normally 1/2 to 1 gram. One reason I do it is because of the suggestion that the yeast works better after it has gone through a few generations. And that is an important consideration especially when trying to coax some nice esters out of your yeast. 

I don't believe what is written on the yeast packet. I don't vacuum pack it to reseal. Quite often the yeast will be good years later when/if I come to reuse it. Sometimes I will just chuck the remainder of the packet away because I decide I didn't like the yeast much anyway. Just make sure you seal the container well to prevent contamination and moisture from entering.

As an aside, I have used wine yeast (for wine), from a 500 gram packet that was several years old and that had been stored out of the fridge. It went off with a bang.


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## Markbeer (14/10/18)

Ok. Back on topic and a review of this yeast.

Very little info on this yeast. I have now made an 8% tripel and a 4% pale.

The yeast seems to like a very active fermentation, so factor in some headspace.

Attenuated well. Fast, over on a few days at 20 degrees.

Taste at first was overwhelming pepper. I was disappointed. Given a week cold conditioning it's dropped bright and tasting great. Fruitiness coming through well.

I am happy, it's probably my favourite mangrove jacks Belgian strain, and I have tried almost all.

Next to try is the Belgian wit.


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## Dubzie (14/10/18)

TheSumOfAllBeers said:


> I would use 4 packs of yeast. You really need the pitch rate for the high gravity stuff. I wouldn't risk a whole batch because I was corner cutting on the yeast.
> 
> Although if I could plan my beers better, I would make a trappist single, and pitch onto the dregs of it.


$7.50 for a dry yeast at my LHBS
$10 for 1k of DME

4x 7.50 = $30
$7.50 + $4 of DME = $11.50

I know why i make starters.


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## Errant (24/11/18)

TheSumOfAllBeers said:


> Dried yeast is packaged with enough nutrients to allow the yeast to grow and fully ferment the rated volume/gravity if wort.
> 
> When you make a starter, those nutrients are wasted when you decant the liquor from the slurry.



To resurrect an old thread...

Why don't you just tip the lot in?

I always make a starter 24hrs or more before I want to brew with dry yeast and DME, then make my wort up to final volume minus the starter volume and tip it in. The whole lot goes in. About 7,200L last year brewed that way and no batches lost, but massive money saved on specialty yeast. Then wash that yeast and keep it to make an even larger starter next time, for about 6 brews/generations (Anywhere from 30L to 180L batches).


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## GurraG (25/11/18)

Markbeer said:


> I am happy, it's probably my favourite mangrove jacks Belgian strain, and I have tried almost all.



Have you tried the m41? If so, how does ut compare to m31?


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## Markbeer (25/11/18)

The M41 was less fruity from what I remember.

I prefer the Tripel yeast out of the 2.



GurraG said:


> Have you tried the m41? If so, how does ut compare to m31?


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