# All Amarillo Apa



## NRB

NRB's All Amarillo APA

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

06-A American Pale Ales, American Pale Ale

Min OG: 1.045 Max OG: 1.056
Min IBU: 20 Max IBU: 40
Min Clr: 9 Max Clr: 28 Color in EBC

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 23.00 Wort Size (L): 23.00
Total Grain (kg): 6.50
Anticipated OG: 1.058 Plato: 14.30
Anticipated EBC: 24.6
Anticipated IBU: 39.2
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 17.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 30.87 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.043 SG 10.79 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
76.9 5.00 kg. JWM Traditional Ale Malt Australia 38.00 8
15.4 1.00 kg. Weyermann Munich I Germany 38.00 19
7.7 0.50 kg. Weyermann Caraamber Germany 37.00 93

Potential represented as Points per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
26.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 9.50 5.7 5 min.
23.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 9.50 10.1 20 min.
18.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 9.50 23.5 60 min.


Yeast
-----

DCL US56


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step

Grain kg: 6.50
Water Qts: 14.35 - Before Additional Infusions
Water L: 13.58 - Before Additional Infusions

L Water Per kg Grain: 2.09 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 0 Time: 0
Mash-out Rest Temp : 0 Time: 0
Sparge Temp : 0 Time: 0


Total Mash Volume L: 17.92 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Celsius.


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## Stuster

Well, since nobody else has commented, I will.  

The grain bill looks nice (I like Munich in an APA) though I think it could be a little lighter in gravity, maybe more like 1050. But if you want to keep the gravity as is, then a bit more hoppiness to balance it out. I'd say you need a ratio of BU:GU of more than 0.8 for this style and more hops are good. :chug: 

BTW, I think you may have an old style version, because my version of Promash says 30-54IBUs for an APA. :unsure:


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## Coodgee

I did an apa with 5kg pale malt, 1kg munich malt and 1kg carapils. it came out nothing like a "to style" apa but it was bloody nice. all the laypersons I showed it to loved it. very well balanced hop:malt, which is I guess out of style for an apa, but it was a fantastic beer. I used simcoe and cascade for flavour and NB for bittering.


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## goatherder

Hey Coodgee, how did it not turn out to style? Was your hopping too low? What was your BU:GU ratio?

The reason I ask is your malt bill looks a lot like the APA I'm thinking of making...


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## wee stu

I brewed an all amarillo american wheat earlier this year, transgressed more style categories than I care to think of, but none the less produced probably my most drinkable beer of the the year. 

Here she is:


BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Off the Wheaten Track
Brewer: wee stu
Asst Brewer: 
Style: American Wheat or Rye Beer
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 28.36 L
Estimated OG: 1.049 SG
Estimated Color: 3.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 30.6 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 60.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
0.19 kg Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 3.1 % 
2.85 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (1.7 SRM) Grain 46.4 % 
2.85 kg Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (2.0 SRM) Grain 46.4 % 
0.25 kg Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (3.0 SRM) Grain 4.1 % 
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.40%] (60 min) (First WorHops 20.3 IBU 
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.40%] (10 min) Hops 6.7 IBU 
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.40%] (5 min) Hops 3.7 IBU 
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.40%] (0 min) Hops - 
0.30 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Safale us-56 (DCL) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 6.14 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time 
Mash In Add 16.02 L of water at 74.4 C 67.8 C 60 min 


Notes:
------


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## NRB

Thanks for the replies guys. I know that the Yanks and local competitions have pushed this style to something that is closer to an IPA with the hop levels they use, but I actually like love the flavour of an APA that is balanced. It may not be true to style, but it's how I like them. I much prefer SNPA over LCPA, although I haven't tried either in draught version.

Looking over the recipe, I realised my batch size was too small (should've been 24.5L) bringing the OG to 1.055 with 37.5 IBUs. I haven't brewed AG at all this year h34r: and I'm expecting a low efficiency. If not, I'll be doing a kettle dilution and change the hopping as required.

Wish me luck firing the burner up in anger tomorrow! I've been looking forward to this day for too long as I've only brewed a couple of times this year


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## Kai

NRB said:


> Thanks for the replies guys. I know that the Yanks and local competitions have pushed this style to something that is closer to an IPA with the hop levels they use, but I actually like love the flavour of an APA that is balanced. It may not be true to style, but it's how I like them.



Agreed 100% on good balance, I find apas are best kept nice and light. Disagree that they're not true to style, I think they are.


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## Aaron

Kai said:


> NRB said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the replies guys. I know that the Yanks and local competitions have pushed this style to something that is closer to an IPA with the hop levels they use, but I actually like love the flavour of an APA that is balanced. It may not be true to style, but it's how I like them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed 100% on good balance, I find apas are best kept nice and light. Disagree that they're not true to style, I think they are.
Click to expand...

I have to jump onto thins band wagon. I keep my apa to about 30ibu. I also use 95% Weyermann Munich 1 and 5% wheat malt to give it a really good strong malt base. Doesn't appeal to everyone but works a treat for me. I have the one 60 minute addition then a few late additions and always dry hop in secondary with a handful of pellets straight into the fermenter.


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## NRB

At least there's a few of us who aren't all about the hops. Yes the style is "hop driven", but I think beer should taste malty predominantly.


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## Stuster

Well, I seem to have ruffled a few feathers there. Sorry if I was coming across as a style nazi. :unsure: 

Basically, my thought was just that 1058 was a bit high for an APA. I tend to make this type of beer 1050 or less. My last one was 1044 with 36IBUs which I thought was about right for my tastes for an easy drinking beer. (Next time I may well make something different anyway.)

Personally, I do like to taste a fair whack of hops so most of those IBUs came from late additions but I brew lots of non-hoppy beers too. If a maltier beer is what you prefer then go for it. We're brewing for our tastes after all, one of the joys of brewing. :super:


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## NRB

No offense taken Stuster. I asked for feedback and you gave it. Speaking of which, I noticed you mentioned the style guidlelines being out of date - you're correct.

I was send a recipe similar to this from a friend. I used the old recipe as a base and modified from there. For some reason, the style guidelines are retained in the .rec file rather than using Promash itself fir the most up to date version.

I'm going to take all comments on board, reduce the gravity a little, add my personal preference hopping level and hopefully end up with something that I will enjoy over summer.


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## Lindsay Dive

Stuster said:


> Well, since nobody else has commented, I will.
> 
> The grain bill looks nice (I like Munich in an APA) though I think it could be a little lighter in gravity, maybe more like 1050. But if you want to keep the gravity as is, then a bit more hoppiness to balance it out. I'd say you need a ratio of BU:GU of more than 0.8 for this style and more hops are good. :chug:
> 
> BTW, I think you may have an old style version, because my version of Promash says 30-54IBUs for an APA. :unsure:



Stuster,

I'm a little confused. When you said that your Promash indicated that the IBU's for an APA should be 30 - 54 IBU's , I had a look and for the three APA's on my Promash it says 20 - 40 for two styles and 35 - 45 for the other. I wonder what's going on here?

I also agree, I would knock the grain bill back a tad.

Regards,
Lindsay.


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## NRB

I think the style guidelines are being changed Lindsay, this is what I mean about the Yanks and comps blowing the style out.

I just realised I hadn't put in my saccaraification rest temp, infusion and 66C I'm shooting for.


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## Stuster

I'm not sure about the reason for that, Lindsay. If you go to the main Promash page and click on the styles button at the bottom left, you get the style guidelines. If you are a registered user, they'll tell you when they update them or you can probably download new guidelines from the website. (Don't tell anybody but mine is still on trial mode.  )

I'm sure it'll be a nice summer drinker, NRB. That last APA was an all amarillo too. :chug:


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## Beer Krout

Good to see the mash paddle in your hand again, Nick!

Cheers
BK


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## NRB

It's been too long Brett. I feel like a first time brewer! I mashed in 1C too hot but couldn't be bothered dropping the temp. I just left the lid open for 5 mins.

I now have to get to cleaning my fermenter - it's looking a little worse for wear...


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## Weizguy

G'day NRB!

I just spotted this thread and would like to send U my best wishes and hope that your brew day goes well.

Maybe it's like riding a bike, and you'll be back in the groove straight away.

Time for me to chill some beers for a tasting at lhbs , and I'll get some ingredients for a weizen, I reckon.

Beerz
Seth


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## johnno

FWIW
here is my all Amarillo apa made a while ago.

4.50 kg Powells Pilsner (Powells Malts) (3.0 EBC) Grain 82.6 % 
0.40 kg Powells Caramalt (Powells Malt) (22.0 EBC) Grain 7.3 % 
0.30 kg Powells Vienna (Powells Malts) (8.0 EBC) Grain 5.5 % 
0.25 kg Powells Wheat (Powells Malts) (2.0 EBC) Grain 4.6 % 
28.00 gm Amarrilo [8.90%] (60 min) Hops 26.9 IBU 
14.00 gm Amarrilo [8.90%] (30 min) Hops 10.3 IBU 
14.00 gm Amarrilo [8.90%] (5 min) Hops 2.7 IBU 
1 Pkgs Thames Valley Ale Yeast II (Wyeast Labs #1882) [Starter 1500 ml] Yeast-Ale 


Think I just had the vienna lying around?

anyway came out a treat.

All the best with your brew today NRB. :chug: 


cheers
johnno


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## NRB

Hey Seth! It may be like riding a bike, but I think I've gone from riding a mountain bike back to a unicycle :blink: 

My longest brewday in history has finally been completed and what a comedy of errors it was! First off, it actually wasn't 1C up on the mash, but 2C. I ended up mashing in at 68C ahh well. Then came the first runnings, 1.093 into the kettle. After sparging, I had my required volume, but my efficiency was up a lot more than expected - I had 1.051 preboil.

In went 4L of tap water to get closer to my target preboil gravity. Unfortunately my boil was a little more vigourous than previously and my final volume came in short with an obviously too high OG. I used the promash dilution calculator and added another 4L of tap water post boil (into the still stinking hot kettle) for my target.

Setup the CFWC, started draining to the fermenter, added the airstone and went to grab my starter... hmm, something not quite right about the aroma. Something not quite right about the taste. I hope I've got a sachet of yeast in the fridge!

I rumaged through my brewing yeast packs and found a solitary dry yeast sachet - S04 with a best before date of Sept 05. Stuck it in some warm water to rehydrate and it all looked good. Pitched into fermenter. Mashmaster temperature controller set to 19C (as it's sitting on a heat pad for the cold evenings) and fermenter enclosed in dead barfridge.

Clocked off 5:30 after starting at about 9:30-10am. Admittedly a mate came around with his new car, so there was about an hour or so downtime with the wort sitting in the kettle preboil.

Fingers crossed it turns out okay!

Cheers brewers! :beer:


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## NRB

Bad news on this one I'm afraid.

I transferred it to secondary a couple of weeks ago and bottled on Sunday. When I transferred to secondary, it was tasting absolutely bloody fantastic, but the sample I tried at the end of bottling was awful. This is the third brew that's come down with an infection and I'm not too happy. I think I might throw out all my plastic and start again; it's all too depressing. I will add that I'm pretty anal about cleaning and sanitation so I don't believe the fault is there, unless there's some ingrained bacteria within my transfer tubing or secondary fermenter.

I'm beginning to wonder if there's something in the air around here too - a large eucalypt in my back yard has a black growth on its leaves (I remember reading someone having troubles with something like this last year) and I have a heap of potted plants dying - their leaves are rolling up, some are dead.

Even if this was a Belgian style, there'd be no way anyone would drink it.

The other reason I'm considering airborn contaminants is the fact my starter was also infected, and this came nowhere near any of my other brewing areas, plus was actually sterile, not sanitised.

I think I'll also have a look at using phosphoric acid sanitiser instead of iodophor for a while.


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## DJR

No good news there, get rid of the tree and use some hot 1% caustic on everything that's been in contact with it to make sure you bomb it totally clean. Sounds like one hell of a biology experiment around that tree!


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## colinw

Argh. That sounds painful. FWIW, all my seasonal infection problems at our old house went away after we had a large custard apple tree removed. No more rotting fruit lying about - no more funny pellicle forming Brett infections.

Here's our all-Amarillo beer. "Death by Amarillo". Came out a little stronger than the recipe (unexpectedly high mash efficiency), ended up with a nearly 6% abv beer. Was formulated as 1.052 and 1.012 expected. Got 1.059 and 1.014. It was mind blowingly hoppy but with big malt underneath - after having acouple of these, LCPA tasted like Tooheys New. If you brew this recipe you are not going to win any awards for subtlety or finesse! 

View attachment 79_death_by_amarillo.html


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## goatherder

NRB, have you considered dropping the secondary altogether? I leave my ales on primary for 12-14 days before bottling or kegging and I still get bright beers. It might help you narrow down where the infection is coming from.


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## NRB

Yeah, but the 2 brews prior to this were not secondaried. Why did I put this one in secondary? I was happy with the flavour, but wanted to make it brighter.


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## razz

Stuster said:


> I'm not sure about the reason for that, Lindsay. If you go to the main Promash page and click on the styles button at the bottom left, you get the style guidelines. If you are a registered user, they'll tell you when they update them or you can probably download new guidelines from the website. (Don't tell anybody but mine is still on trial mode.  )
> 
> I'm sure it'll be a nice summer drinker, NRB. That last APA was an all amarillo too. :chug:


I won't tell anyone Stuster, I'm still on trial mode as well ! :lol:


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## Beer Krout

Sorry to hear the bad news, Nick!

Hope you figure it out soon.


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## PistolPatch

Howdy NRB,

Zizzle brewed your beer here for the last QLD Swap using his electric BIAB set-up. I loved it.

I brewed it up last Sunday (gas BIAB) and am just tasting it now. I really love this beer and can see it taking up permanent residence in one of my 3 kegs.

Thanks for a great recipe mate,
Pat


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## NRB

Glad someone's enjoyed it Pat. I'll be brewing it again sometime when the weather's a little cooler. Hopefully I'll get a taste of a 'good' version


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## PistolPatch

Well NRB, that keg was drained very quickly.

I'm just brewing another one now and mucked around with some mash temps - starting dry at 61.5 for first ten minutes and then raising to 65 degrees to finish the mash. It was going to be a 60 minute mash but...

Unfortunately my brother-in-law stopped in to drink more of the empty keg and so I had to do the boil hop calculation while keeping him entertained.

In your first post, you have the aroma addition first so, of course, I had a quick glance and assumed it was the boil addition :blink: 

So, it looks like I'm brewing a very bitter version of your original.

The QLD guys are going to love this mistake!

I am somewhat less amused  

Loved the last batch though!

Pat


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## Jye

PistolPatch said:


> In your first post, you have the aroma addition first so, of course, I had a quick glance and assumed it was the boil addition :blink:
> 
> So, it looks like I'm brewing a very bitter version of your original.
> 
> The QLD guys are going to love this mistake!



Ya big girl Pat... HTFU


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## InCider

Jye said:


> Ya big girl Pat... HTFU


Yeah Pat listen to Chopper: HTFU


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## NRB

It should still turn out great Pat.

I'm planning on remaking this one with minor modifications tomorrow whilst the Grand Prix is on. Will mash in early and hope to have most complete by race time.

For this batch I'm going to FWH instead of a 60min addition and will up the aroma addition a small amount. I'm also using a British Ale yeast (WY1335 British Ale II) for this one.


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## NRB

Ok, I've just done an overnight mash on this little baby and have FWH it. Looks like my efficiency is through the roof on the current system - recipe was set at 65% with a preboil gravity of 9.9 degrees brix (1.040). I've come in at target volume but 13.5 degrees brix (1.056). I calculate that to be a 90% efficiency. Not bad for a batch sparge.

Now the desicion has to be made - more hops and more water preboil, or more water post boil? I know I'm going to have to up the hopping anyway. I've never had to do an on the fly calculation!

Any tips or guidance would be most appreciated. I've got a bit of time on my hands - I did an 18g FWH addition and will be doing a 20, 5 and flameout addition of 23, 26 and 20g respectively.


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## NRB

Ok, playing with an untested system is always going to have some difficulty, but managed to pull a brew off nevertheless. Here's what I came up with today:

NRB's All Amarillo APA Take 2

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

06-A American Pale Ales, American Pale Ale

Min OG: 1.045 Max OG: 1.056
Min IBU: 20 Max IBU: 40
Min Clr: 9 Max Clr: 28 Color in EBC

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 29.50 Wort Size (L): 29.50
Total Grain (kg): 6.50
Anticipated OG: 1.056 Plato: 13.81
Anticipated EBC: 20.3
Anticipated IBU: 38.8
Brewhouse Efficiency: 82 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 17.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 39.60 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.042 SG 10.41 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %
Additional Utilization Used For First Wort Hops: -10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
76.9 5.00 kg. Bairds Maris Otter Pale Malt UK 37.00 7
15.4 1.00 kg. Weyermann Munich I Germany 38.00 19
7.7 0.50 kg. Weyermann Caraamber Germany 37.00 93

Potential represented as Points per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
18.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 8.40 16.2 First WH
25.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 8.40 11.6 30 min.
23.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 8.40 7.0 20 min.
26.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 8.40 3.9 5 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 1335 British Ale II


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Single Step

Grain kg: 6.50
Water Qts: 17.86 - Before Additional Infusions
Water L: 16.90 - Before Additional Infusions

L Water Per kg Grain: 2.60 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp : 68 Time: Overnight
Mash-out Rest Temp : 75 Time: 5
Sparge Temp : 75 Time: 20


Total Mash Volume L: 21.24 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Celsius.



Notes
-----

Original recipe estimated 65% efficiency - efficiency was closer to 90%,
added 5L filtered water to kettle at 35mins.

OG 13.8 degrees brix or 1.056, so the addition of some water to the kettle and the 30min addition should result in one I'll enjoy. I'm just hoping my new place doesn't have the same airborne nasties my last address did!
:chug:


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## PistolPatch

NRB!

Just had to let you quickly know how great this beer is. I kegged and filtered the brew that I brewed a week ago and took a few bottles around to a lunch of 18 people ranging in ages from 18 to 55 and of both sexes. The comments were mind-blowing and I had to duck home and bring the keg around. One of the oldest guys said, "I can honestly say that this is three times nicer than the best beer I have ever had."

This was the one where I buggered up and put the flavour hop addition in first due to a mis-read of your recipe. This actually turned out even better balanced than the first one.

This is definitely going to remain a permanent fixture in my fridge. I love it and have also given it a special mention in the first post of the new A Guide to All-Grain Brewing In A Bag

Thanks a heap for this recipe mate and wishing you a total absence of airborne nasties.

:super: 
Pat


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## NRB

Mine's bubbling away and will hopefully be as well received as yours.

As a nit-picking aside, you've linked to the recipe as "All American APA" when it's actually "All Amarillo APA" 

Glad someone else has had some pleasure from something so simple in reality.

Cheers,
Nick


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## PistolPatch

Have fixed the link up Nick. Thanks for the heads up mate.

Man I love that beer. Look forward to hearing how your above batch goes.

Cheers
Pat

LOL! I have broadband back on now and just saw Jye and InCider's posts  Amazing what you miss on dial-up!


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## oldbugman

Just put my Amarillo ale down.

Triple A (All Amarillo Ale)

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 23.00 Wort Size (L): 23.00
Total Grain (kg): 5.10
Anticipated OG: 1.052 Plato: 12.96
Anticipated SRM: 5.6
Anticipated IBU: 30.5
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 27.06 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.045 SG 11.09 Plato



Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
78.4 4.00 kg. Pilsener Germany 1.038 2
14.7 0.75 kg. Munich Malt I Germany 1.037 7
2.0 0.10 kg. Crystal 55L Great Britian 1.034 55
4.9 0.25 kg. Wheat Malt Belgium 1.038 2

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
25.00 g. Amarillo Pellet 8.90 10.6 20 min.
25.00 g. Amarillo Pellet 8.90 8.4 15 min.
25.00 g. Amarillo Pellet 8.90 6.3 10 min.
25.00 g. Amarillo Pellet 8.90 5.2 5 min.
25.00 g. Amarillo Pellet 8.90 0.0 0 min.


Yeast
-----

US 56


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## RichardR

PistolPatch said:


> NRB!
> 
> Just had to let you quickly know how great this beer is. I kegged and filtered the brew that I brewed a week ago and took a few bottles around to a lunch of 18 people ranging in ages from 18 to 55 and of both sexes. The comments were mind-blowing and I had to duck home and bring the keg around. One of the oldest guys said, "I can honestly say that this is three times nicer than the best beer I have ever had."
> 
> This was the one where I buggered up and put the flavour hop addition in first due to a mis-read of your recipe. This actually turned out even better balanced than the first one.
> 
> This is definitely going to remain a permanent fixture in my fridge. I love it and have also given it a special mention in the first post of the new A Guide to All-Grain Brewing In A Bag
> 
> Thanks a heap for this recipe mate and wishing you a total absence of airborne nasties.
> 
> :super:
> Pat



Pat,
Just found your reply to NRB and have a couple of questions, hope you don't mind.
I have looked for this recipe in your post on BIAB hut have not been able to find it. I am yet to get my first BIAB going and was interested of your comments on this brew.
Also, how do you bottle your beer from the keg??

Sorry to be a pest

Regards 
Richard
PS. Do you use an adjustable regulator on your 3 Ring burner???


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## Fents

I put a All amarillo blonde down on the weekend too :

4.8KG JW Pils
1.4KG JW Cara Pils
0.2KG JW Vienna

20g Amarillo 60mins
30g Amarillo 25mins
40g Amarillo Flameout

I was 45mins into the boil and my gas ran out si i just dumped in a whirfloc, dumped in the flameout addition and let it soak for 10mins. Hope it turns out OK. Seriously considering putting 300gm's honey in primary with it though.


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## PistolPatch

Hi there Richard. It might be better if I have a crack at answering your questions in the BIAB thread. Will do so shortly 

Fents, the first time I did NRB's recipe I made a cracker of an error and ended up having to boil 8 litres on its own after the main boil. Long story but it still turned out very nicely so I reckon you have nothing to worry about. As NRB said it is a simple recipe but it's very tolerant as well.

Spot,
Pat


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## NRB

The recipe I put together was kegged 12/04/07 and tasted today:

Batch Size (L): 29.50

 % Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
76.9 5.00 kg. Bairds Maris Otter Pale Malt UK 37.00 7
15.4 1.00 kg. Weyermann Munich I Germany 38.00 19
7.7 0.50 kg. Weyermann Caraamber Germany 37.00 93

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
18.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 8.40 16.2 First WH
25.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 8.40 11.6 30 min.
23.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 8.40 7.0 20 min.
26.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 8.40 3.9 5 min.

WYeast 1335 British Ale II

While this beer is a tasty drop, it isn't what I had planned. It's quite dry in the finish and I wondered where the caramel/sweet notes were.

Then it dawned on me; my original hash of this beer included CaraStan and somewhere along the way I replaced CaraStan with CaraAmber!  On paper they seemed the same, but it occurred to me yesterday (after reading BB) that CaraStan is a crystal and CaraAmber is a toasted malt hence the lack of residual sweetness from what I had envisioned. Looks like I'm going to have to brew it up again, but this time with a crystal malt of some description. Oh well, at least I'm going to have a few full kegs to demolish! :chug:


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## cj in j

I bottled up some Amarillo Pale Ale yesterday and it came out quite nice. I still like a blend of hops in my pale ales, but Amarillo along with Centennial are highly drinkable.


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## NRB

Funny you should say that CJ - I dry hopped this one with Amarillo/Centennial a couple of days ago. I suppose it's no longer an AAAPA anymore!


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## Katherine

Bringing up a old thread.

Now I understand PP how the reversing of the hops happened. 

Anyhow I have this beer on tap! (and can not wait to get home) This is going to be our house beer! Its fantastic. $80.00 for 500g or Amarillo is a bit steep! I finished my last batch in this brew. We are using the reverse hops schedule. Next brew I will brew as recipe see how that one goes.


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## Fourstar

NRB said:


> Then it dawned on me; my original hash of this beer included CaraStan and somewhere along the way I replaced CaraStan with CaraAmber! On paper they seemed the same, but it occurred to me yesterday (after reading BB) that CaraStan is a crystal and CaraAmber is a toasted malt hence the lack of residual sweetness from what I had envisioned. Looks like I'm going to have to brew it up again, but this time with a crystal malt of some description. Oh well, at least I'm going to have a few full kegs to demolish!



FYI Weyermann CaraAmber IS a crystal malt. its names amber due to its colour, also note the Cara. Cara = crystal. its colour range is b/w carared and caramunich.


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## reviled

Fourstar said:


> FYI Weyermann CaraAmber IS a crystal malt. its names amber due to its colour, also note the Cara. Cara = crystal. its colour range is b/w carared and caramunich.



I still disagree with this - look at the grains, compare carared/munich etc with caraamber and straight away you can see that the caraamber is not crystalised!!  Plus it doesnt give me any of the characteristics that you get from crystal malts... My opinion only of course, but I stand by it!

Katie - $80 AUD for 500gms of Amarillo??? :blink: Thats so steep! I recently got a kilo for around $110 NZD, and I thought that was expensive!! If youre looking to buy big amounts like that id probably shop around a bit more..


Also, on the topic of All amarillo ale, if anyone here likes Munich I would reccommend the Munich and Amarillo SMaSH type beer, I brewed one recently and it was absolutely awesome!!! Nice malt character backed up with that mandarin citrusyness you get from an abundance of Amarillo :icon_drool2:


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## Katherine

reviled said:


> I still disagree with this - look at the grains, compare carared/munich etc with caraamber and straight away you can see that the caraamber is not crystalised!!  Plus it doesnt give me any of the characteristics that you get from crystal malts... My opinion only of course, but I stand by it!
> 
> Katie - $80 AUD for 500gms of Amarillo??? :blink: Thats so steep! I recently got a kilo for around $110 NZD, and I thought that was expensive!! If youre looking to buy big amounts like that id probably shop around a bit more..
> 
> 
> Also, on the topic of All amarillo ale, if anyone here likes Munich I would reccommend the Munich and Amarillo SMaSH type beer, I brewed one recently and it was absolutely awesome!!! Nice malt character backed up with that mandarin citrusyness you get from an abundance of Amarillo :icon_drool2:



Actually $64.00... opps... love munich might give that a try.


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## reviled

Katie said:


> Actually $64.00... opps... love munich might give that a try.



Thats not as bad I guess...

Definately do try the all munich APA, I used Munich II for a bit more malt character, but munich I would work fine as well, it comes out with an awesome red colour and looks devine :icon_drool2: No need for crystal or any specialty malts either...

Might have to brew another one


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## Fourstar

reviled said:


> I still disagree with this - look at the grains, compare carared/munich etc with caraamber and straight away you can see that the caraamber is not crystalised!! Plus it doesnt give me any of the characteristics that you get from crystal malts... My opinion only of course, but I stand by it!



I suggest you download the Malt specifications zip file from weyermann Rev. You will clearly see that it is a crystal malt, not only does the description say: _"Gentle, malty *caramel *flavors. Enhances mouthfeel. Adds deep red color. Promotes flavor
stability"

_It also will show it does not have any of the specs that any of the non-stewed malts have. e.g. Protien content, modification, sacchrification time, etc. All it shows is its colour and extraction %. Not to mention its listed in the 'caramel' barley malts section on their website. If it was indeed amber barley malt, it would be listed along side melanoiden and aciduated under the "specialty malt" category


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## Online Brewing Supplies

Katie said:


> Actually $64.00... opps... love munich might give that a try.


Next time drop me an email, you know Im going to give you the best price and I will let you drink all my beer. 
GB


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## Katherine

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Next time drop me an email, you know Im going to give you the best price and I will let you drink all my beer.
> GB



I wasnt quoting your prices GB...  

You know once we get a grain mill we will be acquiring your services far more frequently. And you have a certain American hop I want to get my hands on.


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## Fents

Katie said:


> I wasnt quoting your prices GB...
> 
> You know once we get a grain mill we will be acquiring your services far more frequently. And you have a certain American hop I want to get my hands on.



its simcoe isnt it...


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## Katherine

Fents said:


> its simcoe isnt it...




how did you know! 

GB also lives just under hour away and theres no way I can only have one beer! 
Best beer Ive ever tasted...


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## Online Brewing Supplies

Katie said:


> how did you know!
> 
> GB also lives just under hour away and theres no way I can only have one beer!
> Best beer Ive ever tasted...


Next brew is a Simcoe and Amarillo extravaganza. Im going to brew my first APA  Got to go and sample some customers beers and cook a Thai yellow curry. You know you want some :lol: 
GB


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## Katherine

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Next brew is a Simcoe and Amarillo extravaganza. Im going to brew my first APA  Got to go and sample some customers beers and cook a Thai yellow curry. You know you want some :lol:
> GB



Are we meeting next Saturday for lunch? 

Probably get the hops of you then!

I have a beautiful hopburst, hopped with nelson, cascade and galaxy that I will bring over. I know you want to? LOL! mmmm cascade!


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## Online Brewing Supplies

Katie said:


> Are we meeting next Saturday for lunch?
> 
> Probably get the hops of you then!
> 
> I have a beautiful hopburst, hopped with nelson, cascade and galaxy that I will bring over. I know you want to? LOL! mmmm cascade!


Yeah its on for Saturday week, 28th. Hope its good deck weather otherwise light the fire and huddle around.
GB


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## mckenry

reviled said:


> Also, on the topic of All amarillo ale, if anyone here likes Munich I would reccommend the Munich and Amarillo SMaSH type beer, I brewed one recently and it was absolutely awesome!!! Nice malt character backed up with that mandarin citrusyness you get from an abundance of Amarillo :icon_drool2:



Hey Rev,
Is this one in the recipe BD? Name?
mckenry


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## Fents

Katie said:


> how did you know!
> 
> GB also lives just under hour away and theres no way I can only have one beer!
> Best beer Ive ever tasted...



im a jedi mind reader. that and i and other people i know have wanted simcoe for a while now.


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## Katherine

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Yeah its on for Saturday week, 28th. Hope its good deck weather otherwise light the fire and huddle around.
> GB



Lloydie will be working but Ill catch a train out and meet him. Be there by 2.30pm is that okay?


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## Fourstar

Fents said:


> im a jedi mind reader. that and i and other people i know have wanted simcoe for a while now.



Now we have got to break Daves kneecaps to order some in! That and Centennial... :icon_drool2:


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## Fents

Fourstar said:


> Now we have got to break Daves kneecaps to order some in! That and Centennial... :icon_drool2:



have already broken knee caps. nneds a firm reminder.


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## Online Brewing Supplies

Katie said:


> Lloydie will be working but Ill catch a train out and meet him. Be there by 2.30pm is that okay?


Done deal.
GB


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## reviled

mckenry said:


> Hey Rev,
> Is this one in the recipe BD? Name?
> mckenry



No it isnt mate, but its pretty simple, ill post it up here as its sorta on topic

5.5kg Global Munich (25EBC - similair to weyermann Munich II)
FWH - 25g Amarillo 8.6%
20 - 25g Amarillo 8.6%
10 -25g Amarillo 8.6%
5 - 25g Amarillo 8.6%
Dry -50g Amarillo 8.6%
US-05

I got an OG of 1059 and around 59 IBUs, first two weeks in the keg it was just ooozing with a big citrussy mandarin aroma and a juicy hop flavour, it was awesome!! The malt started to come through and take over the aroma from the 3rd week, so if I was going to do it again id dry hop with 80-100gms of Amarillo to counter this :icon_drool2: But im a hop head


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## Mitternacht Brauer

reviled said:


> No it isnt mate, but its pretty simple, ill post it up here as its sorta on topic
> 
> 5.5kg Global Munich (25EBC - similair to weyermann Munich II)
> FWH - 25g Amarillo 8.6%
> 20 - 25g Amarillo 8.6%
> 10 -25g Amarillo 8.6%
> 5 - 25g Amarillo 8.6%
> Dry -50g Amarillo 8.6%
> US-05
> 
> I got an OG of 1059 and around 59 IBUs, first two weeks in the keg it was just ooozing with a big citrussy mandarin aroma and a juicy hop flavour, it was awesome!! The malt started to come through and take over the aroma from the 3rd week, so if I was going to do it again id dry hop with 80-100gms of Amarillo to counter this :icon_drool2: But im a hop head



Reviled , What volume is that for ?


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## reviled

buster3931 said:


> Reviled , What volume is that for ?



20-21 litres.. Its a medium alpha hop so not too many IBUs really, it was quite balanced..


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## Fourstar

Fents said:


> have already broken knee caps. nneds a firm reminder.



Sounds like we need to take a hammer to his toes, much like Mel Gibson in payback


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## tumi2

PistolPatch has recommended I try NRB All Amarillo APA as my next BIAB attempt.

I am going to use some of my Cascade with the Amarillo just cause i want o use it all up.

Recently however, my last few brews have been with US-05 and i was hoping to try a different kind of yeast just to experience a different type. What would be a good replacement for this yeast. I was hoping to try a liquid yeast and have a go at culturing it to get a few brews from one vile.

I would like a yeast that flocculates well and is an APA style type yeast.


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## reviled

tumi2 said:


> PistolPatch has recommended I try NRB All Amarillo APA as my next BIAB attempt.
> 
> I am going to use some of my Cascade with the Amarillo just cause i want o use it all up.
> 
> Recently however, my last few brews have been with US-05 and i was hoping to try a different kind of yeast just to experience a different type. What would be a good replacement for this yeast. I was hoping to try a liquid yeast and have a go at culturing it to get a few brews from one vile.
> 
> I would like a yeast that flocculates well and is an APA style type yeast.



Give 1272 a try, or if youre after a liquid twin of US-05 go for 1056, but I personally wouldnt bother, 1272 is great :icon_drool2:


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## Pennywise

+1 on 1272, awesome yeast, nice and fruity


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## cliffyj

Hi,
Just put to bed my first AG, NRBs APA.
I am bloody exhausted.(WORRIES)
Everything went ok .... i think, strike temp was 68c , but by the time i got rid of a couple of dough balls,it had drop abit, so i gave it some heat.
After 90 mins took a temp check, not bad drop a couple of degrees.
Now i was going to take it up to mash out temp, i only got to 70c and decided to just take the bag out.
So took out bag , and give it a good squeeze.
I was going along nicely, but then i missed the time of the last hop addition by 10mins, so i just added another 10 mins on to the boil,... wright or wrong?
Cooled down with wort chiller, and put into fermenter bin, added yeast and give it a good stir to aerate.
Did i do anything wrong, or can i make afew adjustments, the reason being.... i am doing another brew of this tomorrow.
The only reading i took was the OG when wort was in fermenter, before yeast was added, OG 1052
Big thanks to Pat and Zwickel for their help.
Clifford


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## PistolPatch

Top stuff Clifford!

Great to see you get your first one under the belt. Also sounds as though you will end up with a great brew. A few things for tomorrow...

1. Make sure you heat your water up before you add the grain. That way you won't get any dough balls.
2. Check your temperature during the mash a bit more often and give it a stir before you do so. Giving it a bit of heat during the mash to keep it at the correct mash temp wont do you any harm. Remember to stir any time you apply heat.
3. Don't worry about the ten minute hop bit. Extending the boil by ten minutes was the proper correction.

OG of 1.052 is spot on.

Top job and all the best for tomorrow,
Pat :icon_cheers:


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## Zwickel

yeah, great story Clifford






As long as Pat keeps you under hes wings, nothing can go wrong  

Enjoy your beer and good luck

lothar


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## Batz

Zwickel said:


> As long as Pat keeps you under hes wings, nothing can go wrong
> 
> 
> 
> lothar


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## PistolPatch

Zwickel 
Batz :angry:


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## Ross

clifford said:


> Hi,
> Just put to bed my first AG, NRBs APA.
> 
> I was going along nicely, but then i missed the time of the last hop addition by 10mins, so i just added another 10 mins on to the boil,... wright or wrong?
> 
> Clifford



Either right or wrong, depending on the recipe - The problem with what you've done is that you've added 10 mins to every other hop addition as well, that may (according to your recipe) add a lot more bitterness than the recipe calls for.
You'll need to calculate the extra bittering for an idea of how far out it will be.

cheers Ross


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## cliffyj

Hi,
Just brewed another batch of this.
Mash temp 65c-66c, checked temp twice and stirred, temp held throughout mash, so didnt add flame.
I did a mash out, plus i gave the grain a good squeeze when lifting bag out.
5 galls into fermenter, gravity 1050.
Clifford


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## droid

is there a commercial example of all Amarillo around?


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## Dan Pratt

James Squire Golden Ale.


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## droid

ah thanks mate


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