# Is Weyermanns Pilsner Malt Fully Modified



## Pumpy (22/2/07)

I have never used it before and unsure if I have to step the temperature or can I mash at one temp ?

pumpy


----------



## DJR (22/2/07)

Yes. The Boh Pils will work in a single infusion as well (but will stand up to a decoction).

A lot of the euro breweries step mash though, if you have the ability why not give it a go. But single step mashing at 62-66C will work fine.


----------



## smashed jaffa (22/2/07)

Hi Pumpy I have used this malt quite often and get good results with a single infusion 65-70%

Cheers,

Smashed Jaffa


----------



## MAH (22/2/07)

DJR said:


> single step mashing at 62-66C will work fine.



The gelatinisation temperature of barley malt starch is 64-67C. The low end of a single infusion mash schedule shouldn't below 64C. 

With a decoction, you can use a lower rest, because the malt starch is fully gelatinised during the decottion phase, before beign added back to the enzyme rich liqour for its rest.

Cheers
MAH


----------



## DJR (22/2/07)

MAH said:


> The gelatinisation temperature of barley malt starch is 64-67C. The low end of a single infusion mash schedule shouldn't below 64C.
> 
> With a decoction, you can use a lower rest, because the malt starch is fully gelatinised during the decottion phase, before beign added back to the enzyme rich liqour for its rest.
> 
> ...



Well, i'm going to argue that a 62C mash temp is fine because i've done it 3 or 4 times for Kolsch and i got 80-82% every time. Warner's Kolsch book recommends the same thing, for a long beta-amylase rest. George Fix recommends the old 40-60-70 schedule which seemed to give good results for him, even if the starch "wasn't gelatinised" as the science book would recommend.

Anyway getting off topic from the original post now, back to your scheduled programming...


----------



## Pumpy (22/2/07)

Thanks Guys for your help .

Franko and Hogan are coming around on Sunday to help me mash the Belgian Saison so I want to get it right 

Pumpy


----------



## tangent (22/2/07)

awesome malt Pumpy :super: 

i can't believe you've been hanging out with the ugly malts and never laid your mash paddle on this super babe  

honestly, i love it. although i am trying to make German style pilsners and lagers at the moment (and put on 3.5 kilos :blink: )

use a clean lager yeast and at least 98% wey pils, low a/a German hops, lager, and you'll be amazed how easy it seems. i was stoked.


----------



## Pumpy (22/2/07)

tangent said:


> awesome malt Pumpy :super:
> 
> i can't believe you've been hanging out with the ugly malts and never laid your mash paddle on this super babe
> 
> ...



Tangent I have a 25 kg bag so I will get at least three goes ( 40 litre batches ) at it 

Pumpy


----------



## tangent (22/2/07)

i get panicky if i have less than a bag and a half
the bo-pils is good too. very subtle difference but that's light malts and light coloured beers I suppose.


----------



## Darren (22/2/07)

MAH said:


> The gelatinisation temperature of barley malt starch is 64-67C. The low end of a single infusion mash schedule shouldn't below 64C.
> 
> With a decoction, you can use a lower rest, because the malt starch is fully gelatinised during the decottion phase, before beign added back to the enzyme rich liqour for its rest.
> 
> ...




MAH,

Isnt barley malted at those temps, therefore gelatinisation should have occured in the malthouse?
I thought that was the primary reason for malting?

cheers

Daren


----------



## /// (22/2/07)

As one with a former commercial interest in Weyermann - are you talking the standard Pils or Under modified malt bought in not so long ago??? the 2 are very different.

The standard Pils, as all malt does, works well between 60-72 degrees - unless you have barley set to feed cows. 

It is all dependant on the amalayse you want and the job to be done. Do you want a sweet beer or a well fermented beer. This is mash brew 101, 60-66 for drier beers, 67-72 for sweeter beers, it all depends on what you want? Kunze describes things bueatifully.

Standard Pils Weyermann is well modified and is suitable for an infusion mash. If you want a thin beer with poor head retention then do a step mash or a decoction with the standard malt. Weyermann make thier standard Pils malt with infusion mashing being the regime to follow.

If you have the under-modified malt then when in Rome do as the Romans do, step or decoct and enjoy the excess time you do in the process... like watching grass grow personally.... yawn...

If you want to improve the malt profile of your Pils <edit> rather than grow grass look further at a grist bill of a pils, see where a trip to watch Beyen Munich (malt) v Madrid can take you!

Scotty


----------



## Tony (22/2/07)

I bought a bag of Weyermann Bohemien pils a while back.

I used it in 2 pale beers...... a pilsner and a Belgian truppel and both ended up milky. It was ghill haze cause they cleared up when warm.

I also used it in a schwarzbier and a porter and both were clear as a bell.

All were single infusion mashed.

they were all great beers, they won awards. well the pilsner was shit and that was my fault but the rest were fab.......u........lus!

I used german Hoepfner pils years back and i got hazy beers from that too when i brewed pale beers but i was learning back then and that could have been my fault as well.

I have been a bit shy of german pilsner malt since then. I have been using JW pils with great results but it just doesnt have the wow factor that the germal malts have.

I just gave some IMC pilsner malt a go and it was a pleasire to use. The husks held together better that any other malt i have used and it is brewing at 11 deg at the moment.

Now that i have been getting consistantly clear beers without filtering, pale or anber of dark, i may give it a go again.

I have 50 KG of IMC ale malt to use as well so i am hoping that works out.

Id say to single infuse it pumps........... it will be fine.

cheers


----------



## MAH (23/2/07)

Darren said:


> MAH,
> 
> Isnt barley malted at those temps, therefore gelatinisation should have occured in the malthouse?
> I thought that was the primary reason for malting?
> ...



Hi Darren

This information was based upon what a local pro-brewer advised when using a single infusion mash with Weyermann pils malt. The other aspect was to use a 90min rest for full conversion. Considering this brewer is a pro and has taken the brewing course through Ballarat, I thought he must have a pretty good understanding. 

This information matches further reading that I've done that talks about the gelatinisation process occuring in the mash tun. I haven't read anything that suggests barley malt is gelantanised during malting. 

The articles that I have read also discuss the influence of milling, and although it's poorly understood, it appears that a finer milled grist will have a lower gelatinisation temp.

So even before you consider what mash temp you are aiming for, you need to make sure that the starch is fully solubilised for the relevant enzymes to be able to do their job, which requires proper gelatinisation. 

As I mentioned previously gelatinisation and properly solubilised starch can be achieved with an infusion mash that uses a rest temp that is at least equal to the lowest temp for gelatinisation. Or with a decoction you can use a lower rest temp as the starch is gelatinised in the decoction phase then added back to the enzyme rich liqour. These are purely general technical options for mashing which you then have to couple this with the specific malt you are using. As Scotty pointed out why would you use a decoction with malt designed for single infusion mashing.

What does all this mean? Well if you don't have proper gelatinisation and full solubilisation of starches, you increase the risk of unconverted starch making it's way into the kettle and the final product resulting in chill haze. 

Cheers
MAH


----------



## Guest Lurker (23/2/07)

Tony said:


> It was ghill haze cause they cleared up when warm.



If you are getting ghill haze, I would recommend using rice gulls in the mash.


----------



## Tony (23/2/07)

will i ever live that down.......


----------



## Wortgames (23/2/07)

Do you mean Gill haze? I've been getting a bit of that lately.


----------



## neonmeate (23/2/07)

this is just getting silly


----------



## /// (24/2/07)

MAH said:


> As Scotty pointed out why would you use a decoction with malt designed for single infusion mashing.



Hence the question of which Pils malt did you have. The standard is made for infusion mashing, the moravian undermodified needs the assistance of the secondary handling.

Decocting standard pils malt can kill your head retention and lead to a thin profile. Most in Europe are going away from decoction, time (wages) and energy costs are never a decreasing amount. Reportedly SAB/Miller are making the push for Urquel to stop thier practice of decoction in favour of going to infusion mashing.

Scotty


----------

