# Best way to carbonate water



## Kalyori (4/4/17)

We've recently purchased a Kegmaster 4 and 3x19L kegs all for carbonating water.
Carbonated my first keg yesterday and found it to be nice but a quite flat tasting. (Coming from a SodaStream.)

To carbonate the keg, I set the PSI to 30 and for 20 minutes I repeatedly did a 10 second burst of gas followed by a 1 second release, and gave the barrel a slight turn upside down at the very end.
The manual that came with it said not to go above 40 PSI, so I'm thinking I can bump it up to 35/40, though I'll probably have to gas it for longer next time as well... Or maybe I should shake it more after I've finished?

Currently set dispensing pressure to 30 PSI so hopefully it will gradually carbonate over time as well.

Any thoughts on what I could do to carbonate better / faster? I'm very new to this.


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## mtb (4/4/17)

You're wasting a ton of gas using that method. Use the Ross method.


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## Blind Dog (4/4/17)

Search 'Ross method of carbonation'. Simple. Works. Can't say it works for water as I've never required 19 litres of fizzybwater on tap. Beer, yes.

There's also a few threads on here about adding minerals etc. to replicate Evian or whatever. I think, can't say I've paid much attention to them.


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## Blind Dog (4/4/17)

mtb said:


> You're wasting a ton of gas using that method. Use the Ross method.


Great minds and all that


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## Kalyori (4/4/17)

Thanks guys!

So if I understand correctly:

Set the pressure to 40 PSI
Rock back and forth for 50 seconds
Turn off gas and rock while waiting for pressure to drop and stabilise
Repeat until it's within the target pressure?

I have a t-piece as well -- but it'll either be unconnected or connected to another keg. Will that be fine?

I don't think we'll bother adding minerals or anything to it. We've been drinking plain soda water for many years now and love it.


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## tugger (5/4/17)

And do it as cold as possible. 1 or 2 degrees.


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## mtb (5/4/17)

Kalyori said:


> Thanks guys!
> 
> So if I understand correctly:
> 
> ...


Try steps 1-3 and test it out before bothering to repeat the process. Carbonated water won't react to this method in the same way as carbonated beer, in that you should be able to pour from the keg immediately after without worrying about excessive foam. Just make sure the keg is at pouring pressure (10psi at ~3C) and test if you like it; if not, pump up pressure to 40psi, shake for another 10sec, check again.


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## Kalyori (5/4/17)

tugger said:


> And do it as cold as possible. 1 or 2 degrees.


The place that sold us the system advised us not to go below 3c with water as they'd had someone that had broken theirs by dropping it below that, so I'm a little hesitant to do so. We've currently got the fridge set to 6c but it sits around 3-4 after it's chilled the water.



mtb said:


> Try steps 1-3 and test it out before bothering to repeat the process. Carbonated water won't react to this method in the same way as carbonated beer, in that you should be able to pour from the keg immediately after without worrying about excessive foam. Just make sure the keg is at pouring pressure (10psi at ~3C) and test if you like it; if not, pump up pressure to 40psi, shake for another 10sec, check again.


I see I see. I've got pouring pressure set to 30 PSI -- is there any reason not to do that?


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## ratchie (5/4/17)

Only fill the keg 3/4 full more head space and it will carbonate it quicker.


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## mtb (5/4/17)

Pouring beer at 30PSI usually leads to a big glass of head and nothing else, but you're probably okay doing it with water. Test at different PSI to find the sweet spot.


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## Kalyori (5/4/17)

ratchie said:


> Only fill the keg 3/4 full more head space and it will carbonate it quicker.


Ah right, good to know.



mtb said:


> Pouring beer at 30PSI usually leads to a big glass of head and nothing else, but you're probably okay doing it with water. Test at different PSI to find the sweet spot.


I see. Will do.

Thanks again for all the input guys -- will report back with how I go with the carbonating.


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## mtb (5/4/17)

No worries. Also ratchie I have to disagree, although it might carbonate marginally quicker, it isn't worth the capacity loss.


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## Adbrewer (5/4/17)

I quite often carbonate a 19l keg full of water. It takes me between 7 and 10 mins for it to be carbonated to the level I like using the Ross method (at approx. 40psi).


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## mtb (5/4/17)

Yeah, judging by what a sodastream does, you'd want to carbonate water at a higher level than beer. 7-10min though, that's lots of shaking, you must have biceps of steel Adbrewer :lol:


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## pcqypcqy (5/4/17)

I always keep a keg of soda water on the go to keep SWMBO happy.

I set it to my normal beer pressure (which varies 8 to 12 psi) and let it carbonate over time. Tastes like normal sodawater. If I'm in a rush, I'll leave it set high (30 psi ish) overnight, maybe for 2 nights, then set it back to beer pressures. Gets close enough quickly, and it gets better every day.

If you have 3 kegs on the go at any given time, you should be able to just set them to 12 psi say and let them carbonate over time. Depending on how quickly you get through them, you should have enough time to let it carbonate slowly before you need to tap that keg. If I have another spare keg with no beer in, this is what I do (one serving, one carbonating). Takes 7 to 14 days to fully carbonate.

I wouldn't leave it at 30 psi as you'll probaly launch soda water all over the place out of your glass. This also depends on the length of your line. I run my soda water tap on a fairly short line, and find that at around 10psi that the water shoots out pretty fast. I wouldn't want to go any faster, and it achieves a good level of carbonation at this pressure.


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## Kalyori (5/4/17)

Thanks guys!

I'd say we drink around 10L of soda water a day so we'll probably go through a keg every two days.
I think I have quite a few good things to try now.

I wanted to ask in regard to the rocking of the keg (with the ROSS method) just how much you're supposed to shake it? Is it simply tilting it left and right or is it more of a rough shake left and right?


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## pcqypcqy (5/4/17)

Kalyori said:


> Thanks guys!
> 
> I'd say we drink around 10L of soda water a day so we'll probably go through a keg every two days.
> I think I have quite a few good things to try now.
> ...


Give it a good rough shake. The rougher the better. You'll work out a pressure and timing that works for you.

If you're going through the three kegs in a week, I'd say do the ROSS method for the first 3 kegs, and then set the pressure to 20 psi. Then, as a keg empties, re-fill it and just connect it to 20psi without rocking it. I reckon 4 days at 20 psi will get you close, and should serve OK out of your tap.

You can then adjust this based on how it all goes.


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## mtb (5/4/17)

An alternative to shaking is to simply lay the keg on its side, and rock it back & forth with your foot. Great way to keep the hands free for a nice cold glass of whatever.


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## Maheel (5/4/17)

mtb said:


> An alternative to shaking is to simply lay the keg on its side, and rock it back & forth with your foot. Great way to keep the hands free for a nice cold glass of whatever.


yeah i use the "roll with foot method"

connect to gas in
lay keg on side with gas post "down"
roll back and forth with foot listening to burbule of gas going in
think about beery goodness for a min or so
stand back up and place in keezer


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## mtb (5/4/17)

Maheel said:


> drink about beery goodness for a min or so


FTFY


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## Dave70 (6/4/17)

I use to do a fizzy ghetto Gatorade for summer time training by adding sugar, sea salt, lite salt and lime cordial. Similar to this. http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-Your-Own-Damn-Sports-Drink/

Unless of course your getting through through ten liters per day via cocktails. In which case. Christ almighty..


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## Grott (6/4/17)

"summer time training" Dave? Hope it's booze related.


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## Kalyori (6/4/17)

Thanks guys.

I've carbonated the first keg using the ROSS method. After about 15-20 minutes I found it was still only very lightly carbonated -- almost resembling flat soda water from the supermarket. The resting PSI after turning the gas off was around 35. I'm going to try and experiment and see what I can do.


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## Danscraftbeer (6/4/17)

You guys drink 5lt a day of highly carbonated water? :unsure:
I have a 12lt keg as a bonus fit in with my 3 kegerater. I just refill it with filtered water and re connect it in the kegerater set at 12psi.
Its chilled and undercarbed in 1 day and fully carbonated in 3-4 days? I really don't mind pure chilled water without that carbon flavour but having on tap makes it soda water. I like soda water too.
As for purity of drinking water. Any bad things about consuming the big evil co2?


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## Jack of all biers (6/4/17)

Danscraftbeer said:


> As for purity of drinking water. Any bad things about consuming the big evil co2?


I'd hope not as if it is then all on this forum are F***ed.  :drinks: :icon_drool2:


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## Danscraftbeer (6/4/17)

Yeah I'd say, and believe from all kinds of scientific scrutiny. That there are no negative effects to be proved yet of beverage consumption levels of co2.


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## Jack of all biers (6/4/17)

In the words of Pauline Hanson........ "Please explain"


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## Kalyori (6/4/17)

Danscraftbeer said:


> You guys drink 5lt a day of highly carbonated water? :unsure:
> I have a 12lt keg as a bonus fit in with my 3 kegerater. I just refill it with filtered water and re connect it in the kegerater set at 12psi.
> Its chilled and undercarbed in 1 day and fully carbonated in 3-4 days? I really don't mind pure chilled water without that carbon flavour but having on tap makes it soda water. I like soda water too.
> As for purity of drinking water. Any bad things about consuming the big evil co2?


Around 3-4L each a day on average, so I'd say about 10L a day. A 19L keg only lasts us 1.5-2 days.

I guess over the next few weeks we'll experiment and figure out how to get it how we want it. It may be hard to match the fizziness of 800ml of water blasted in a Soda Stream (1000 PSI?) for 6+ seconds.


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## Danscraftbeer (6/4/17)

Its more a settled thing than a fast force thing. Even with just water. A conditioning time is needed.
Sounds like you need 3 keg set up. That is to keep up with that kind of soda water intake.


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## Kalyori (6/4/17)

Danscraftbeer said:


> Its more a settled thing than a fast force thing. Even with just water. A conditioning time is needed.
> Sounds like you need 3 keg set up. That is to keep up with that kind of soda water intake.


I see. So maybe 20 minutes of carbonating it and then leave it in for a while?
Yeah maybe we'll need to add another hose so we can gas 3 tanks at once. Right now we're doing just 2.


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## Danscraftbeer (6/4/17)

Set and forget is were I am. I rarely fiddle with pressure variations. Chilled at 12 psi serving pressure. To serve.

I'm far over the rock roll with your foot shake to make it all happen faster its not worth it. IMO
Take the lazy way with capacity if you can. Set it to serving pressure. Let it condition for 4 days.
What I have found with trying to carbonate faster is that its only good after 4 days anyway.
I think trying to make instant fizzy drink via instant carbonation is a fantasy4 . Best soda water on my tap.
4 days conditioning time at serving pressure at 4c. That my verdict.


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## ratchie (6/4/17)

Kalyori said:


> Around 3-4L each a day on average, so I'd say about 10L a day. A 19L keg only lasts us 1.5-2 days.
> 
> I guess over the next few weeks we'll experiment and figure out how to get it how we want it. It may be hard to match the fizziness of 800ml of water blasted in a Soda Stream (1000 PSI?) for 6+ seconds.


Try a 3/4 full keg you'll get a lot more fizz.


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## Dave70 (7/4/17)

grott said:


> "summer time training" Dave? Hope it's booze related.


Well, of course..


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## Jrrj (7/4/17)

The reason people report flat water after force-carbonation protocols is that the water needs to be cold (~4 degrees) - if your tap water is 20 degrees you won't get fast carbonation even at 40psi.

Given the whole 19litres needs to cool, I personally put the keg on the gas at 40psi for 24 hours in the fridge. This is long enough for the water to cool and the 40psi gas to do its thing.

If you have the KK4 3-tap only for water though, you probably don't need to have a keg ready in 24 hours because you'd be rotating kegs. In which case serving and carbonating at 20psi should work fine (30psi makes for a very violent pour and will lose a lot of the carbonation. At 4 degrees it will also result in literally painfully high carbonation.).


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## Kalyori (7/4/17)

Thanks guys, will keep in mind everything you've said!




Jrrj said:


> The reason people report flat water after force-carbonation protocols is that the water needs to be cold (~4 degrees) - if your tap water is 20 degrees you won't get fast carbonation even at 40psi.
> 
> Given the whole 19litres needs to cool, I personally put the keg on the gas at 40psi for 24 hours in the fridge. This is long enough for the water to cool and the 40psi gas to do its thing.
> 
> If you have the KK4 3-tap only for water though, you probably don't need to have a keg ready in 24 hours because you'd be rotating kegs. In which case serving and carbonating at 20psi should work fine (30psi makes for a very violent pour and will lose a lot of the carbonation. At 4 degrees it will also result in literally painfully high carbonation.).


We currently leave our kegs in the fridge for 24 hours before carbonation, and the temperature is set to 6 degrees (but the fridge reports 3.) But not sure if the keg is actually getting to 3c -- I'd assume it would over 24 hours though.

We've got a 2-tap but yeah we're rotating kegs.


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## pcqypcqy (7/4/17)

Kalyori said:


> Thanks guys, will keep in mind everything you've said!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you're chilling before carbonating via the ROSS method, can't hurt to hook the keg up to gas while the keg cools down. Every little bit helps


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## Kalyori (7/4/17)

I notice in the Kegmaster 4's manual it says "Warning: Do not exceed 40 PSI on your system" however I'm wondering if that's just for dispensing? I.E., when the out is connected to the keg?

If I disconnect the out from all kegs can I pump the PSI up to 50, 60, 70, etc., for carbonation and then release the excess gas so it's back below 40 PSI levels?



pcqypcqy said:


> If you're chilling before carbonating via the ROSS method, can't hurt to hook the keg up to gas while the keg cools down. Every little bit helps


True, good point. We're gunna see if we can get another hose so we can gas 3 kegs at once as well rather than just the 2.


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## pcqypcqy (10/4/17)

Kalyori said:


> I notice in the Kegmaster 4's manual it says "Warning: Do not exceed 40 PSI on your system" however I'm wondering if that's just for dispensing? I.E., when the out is connected to the keg?
> 
> If I disconnect the out from all kegs can I pump the PSI up to 50, 60, 70, etc., for carbonation and then release the excess gas so it's back below 40 PSI levels?
> 
> ...


You can get a manifold to split the gas lines, or you could even just do it with some t-splitters. Have a look at any home brew shop website, it's all standard gear.

I think 40 psi is the working limit for the kegs themselves, after which the safety valve will release the pressure.


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## Donz (9/6/17)

The BEST way to carbonate soda water, is simple.
1: before you put the water in the keg, put 2 ltrs of it (hot) into a 25LTR sanitized container.
2: Add 1 can of coopers mexican cervesa and 1 Kg of brewblend #20.
3: stir untill disolved
4. fill to the 21Ltr mark and cool to 20 deg C or under.
5 add yeast and sit for a week or so.
Then you can put your soda water into a keg and add 30 psi for 3 days, then drop the pressure to 10 psi.
you will get a nice refreshing carbonated soda water to enjoy all year round


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## mtb (9/6/17)

Donz said:


> The BEST way to carbonate soda water, is simple.
> 1: before you put the water in the keg, put 2 ltrs of it (hot) into a 25LTR sanitized container.
> 2: Add 1 can of coopers mexican cervesa and 1 Kg of brewblend #20.
> 3: stir untill disolved
> ...



That would make beer..?


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## tugger (4/7/17)

I can carbonate water instantly at 20c. 
6 bar of co2 feeding into a pump then to an 8 bar holding tank.


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## mtb (4/7/17)

You crank your regulator up to 600kPA? Isn't that in the..


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## tugger (4/7/17)

Not when your tanks are 10 bar rated.


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## mtb (4/7/17)

The point I'm making is not your tank capacity, but your reg capacity. The KegKing MKIII for example doesn't even measure output pressure above ~6.8bar (100PSI).
Worth mentioning mostly for the benefit of others so they don't go blowing up their gear*.

Isn't it more economical to carb at lower temps anyway? Sounds like it'd save a fair bit of gas.. albeit at the cost of fridge space.

*I make a fairly grand assumption here that the reg has a safe operating pressure limit, the title of that KegKing one seems to imply it's 50PSI, not sure though.


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## Rocker1986 (4/7/17)

Donz said:


> The BEST way to carbonate soda water, is simple.
> 1: before you put the water in the keg, put 2 ltrs of it (hot) into a 25LTR sanitized container.
> 2: Add 1 can of coopers mexican cervesa and 1 Kg of brewblend #20.
> 3: stir untill disolved
> ...




He's just taking the piss out of the watery nature of those beers is all.

I have a dedicated soda water keg but it just gets carbonated the same way as my beer kegs do. 45PSI overnight then rested for a while before being re-connected at serving pressure. I periodically give it a hit of higher pressure gas to keep the carbonation level higher than the beers though. It generally goes on tap once the first of the three beer kegs runs out, and stays there until the next block of 3 beer kegs goes in to be chilled, carbed and tapped. If it still has water in it when it's removed then obviously I don't have to do the high pressure overnight next time it goes in, it just gets chilled down before connecting anything to it.


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## mtb (4/7/17)

Rocker1986 said:


> He's just taking the piss out of the watery nature of those beers is all.


How did I not notice that.. this damn aspergers wreaks havoc on my sense of humour!


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## Pnutapper (4/7/17)

mtb said:


> The point I'm making is not your tank capacity, but your reg capacity. The KegKing MKIII for example doesn't even measure output pressure above ~6.8bar (100PSI).
> Worth mentioning mostly for the benefit of others so they don't go blowing up their gear*.
> 
> Isn't it more economical to carb at lower temps anyway? Sounds like it'd save a fair bit of gas.. albeit at the cost of fridge space.
> ...




tugger may be referring to a turbo carbonator. They are used to carbonate water at ambient temperatures in very high volume on demand. They are typically found in arenas, cinemas etc.

Post mix regulators typically go up to 1000kPa, but some higher again depending on the equipment used to carbonate water. These regs are set to 600kPa. They feed a carbonator that is submerged in an ice bank chiller water bath. Typically 0 - 1 deg C


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## tugger (5/7/17)

It's on a multi carbonator. 
I use it for bottled carbed water at 11000 litres per hour. 
Running it at 20c it stops the bottles sweating in the cardboard packs as it's un pasteurised.


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## Pnutapper (5/7/17)

tugger said:


> It's on a multi carbonator.
> I use it for bottled carbed water at 11000 litres per hour.
> Running it at 20c it stops the bottles sweating in the cardboard packs as it's un pasteurised.



Now THAT is what I call high volume!!!


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## pirateagenda (9/10/17)

instead of the ross method, i now have a carb cap hooked up to a liquid disconnect, which means i can hook my gas up to the liquid post. 
Leave it connected to liquid post and every half hour or so or whenever you remember pop the prv, then the gas bubbles through the beer until the head pressure is equalised. Just do all this at serving pressure.
Works pretty quickly and no shaking up the keg.


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## Zoetemeyer (23/10/17)

Sorry for being late to the party, but even after reading this post, as entertaining as it was, I still have a couple of questions. I have recently hooked up a 19l keg of water to my Keg King fridge. I chilled it for a few days first (fridge says 1-3 degrees, but not sure about the contents of the keg). I then hooked it up at 30 PSI for three days. Then, I connected it up to the tap. It's not very carbonated. How long should it take? Should I reduce serving pressure once it gets to the level I want and by how much? It also tastes a bit funky, but I can't describe the taste. Is that normal? Lastly, at this rate, It will take me week to prep a keg of water and probably less than that to consume it. Guess I'm going to have to try the force carb method next time.


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## hooper80 (24/10/17)

Zoetemeyer said:


> Sorry for being late to the party, but even after reading this post, as entertaining as it was, I still have a couple of questions. I have recently hooked up a 19l keg of water to my Keg King fridge. I chilled it for a few days first (fridge says 1-3 degrees, but not sure about the contents of the keg). I then hooked it up at 30 PSI for three days. Then, I connected it up to the tap. It's not very carbonated. How long should it take? Should I reduce serving pressure once it gets to the level I want and by how much? It also tastes a bit funky, but I can't describe the taste. Is that normal? Lastly, at this rate, It will take me week to prep a keg of water and probably less than that to consume it. Guess I'm going to have to try the force carb method next time.



I love my soda water to burn my throat with bubbles. I do 3 days at 50 psi.


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## Rocker1986 (24/10/17)

I usually do the same as I do for beer, 24 hours at around 45PSI (with beer this leaves it slightly undercarbed, but the CO2 dissolves more readily in water). If it's not fizzy enough at that point then I just leave it longer, even if the fizz is a bit high, pouring a few glasses drops it down a bit, but it's a lot more forgiving than overcarbed beer. I don't usually leave it on serving pressure though because often times there are beer kegs in there with it and the carbonation level is lower than I like for soda water, instead I just turn the gas off to the other kegs and hit it with 5 minute bursts of 30PSI or so every few days, that keeps the fizz level up nicely. 

Not sure about the flavor you're referring to but soda water does taste different to regular water due to the carbon dioxide in it. Maybe that's it?


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## Airgead (24/10/17)

Rocker1986 said:


> Not sure about the flavor you're referring to but soda water does taste different to regular water due to the carbon dioxide in it. Maybe that's it?



Or it could be something manky in the keg. Maybe some gunge in the liquid out post or something that has tainted the o rings. I had one keg that had been used to serve "sour syrup" before I got it. Took ages to get the taint out of that one. Needed a massive clean and a full new set of seals (including the little poppet seals) before things tasted right.


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## Rocker1986 (24/10/17)

Definitely a possibility as well. Hard to diagnose without a description of the taste though.


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## Zoetemeyer (24/10/17)

Rocker1986 said:


> I usually do the same as I do for beer, 24 hours at around 45PSI (with beer this leaves it slightly undercarbed, but the CO2 dissolves more readily in water). If it's not fizzy enough at that point then I just leave it longer, even if the fizz is a bit high, pouring a few glasses drops it down a bit, but it's a lot more forgiving than overcarbed beer. I don't usually leave it on serving pressure though because often times there are beer kegs in there with it and the carbonation level is lower than I like for soda water, instead I just turn the gas off to the other kegs and hit it with 5 minute bursts of 30PSI or so every few days, that keeps the fizz level up nicely.
> 
> Not sure about the flavor you're referring to but soda water does taste different to regular water due to the carbon dioxide in it. Maybe that's it?


Thanks...I currently drink lots of soda water made with a soda stream, but this has a more chemical taste. I'm thinking it might be the lines, as they are brand new. I let them sit with water in them overnight and poured a small jug from it, which still had the taste. The second pour tasted fine. I will see what it tastes like once the water has once again sat in it to see if the taste continues to leach or if it was just on startup.


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## Zoetemeyer (24/10/17)

Airgead said:


> Or it could be something manky in the keg. Maybe some gunge in the liquid out post or something that has tainted the o rings. I had one keg that had been used to serve "sour syrup" before I got it. Took ages to get the taint out of that one. Needed a massive clean and a full new set of seals (including the little poppet seals) before things tasted right.


The keg and lines are brand spankin' new...which, of course, could also be the problem.


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## Rocker1986 (25/10/17)

Zoetemeyer said:


> Thanks...I currently drink lots of soda water made with a soda stream, but this has a more chemical taste. I'm thinking it might be the lines, as they are brand new. I let them sit with water in them overnight and poured a small jug from it, which still had the taste. The second pour tasted fine. I will see what it tastes like once the water has once again sat in it to see if the taste continues to leach or if it was just on startup.


What sort of lines are they? I don't remember having that issue with my lines but in saying that the first thing that went through any of them was beer.


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## Jack of all biers (25/10/17)

Yeah I had this same thing. First thing I tested my lines/kegs with was carbonated water. Keg king lines. Left them sit with water in for a night, flushed and taste went away after that from memory.


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## Zoetemeyer (25/10/17)

Rocker1986 said:


> What sort of lines are they? I don't remember having that issue with my lines but in saying that the first thing that went through any of them was beer.


They're all proper poly beer lines...


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## Zoetemeyer (25/10/17)

Jack of all biers said:


> Yeah I had this same thing. First thing I tested my lines/kegs with was carbonated water. Keg king lines. Left them sit with water in for a night, flushed and taste went away after that from memory.


I did the same, but I'm finding the first pour from it after its been sitting for anymore than a couple of hours tastes off. It's only what's in the lines.


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## Kalyori (21/3/18)

Hi everyone,

Right now what we're doing is putting the keg in and just leaving it to gas rather than any of the other methods we tried earlier. We polish off a 19L tank in about 1.5 days, and we have 3 tanks. So if we can fill it up quickly enough (we use filtered water so it takes some time) then we usually get 3+ days of carbonation before we drink it.

I would like it to be a bit bubblier than it is now. The Keg Master we have says not to exceed 40 PSI -- but I'm not sure why.

The kegs themselves say they have a max working pressure of 130 PSI (900kpa). The regulator we have is a 230 bar Haris one (bought separately from the Keg Master). So why can't the Keg Master handle above 40 PSI? What exactly is it doing?

Appreciate any input
Cheers


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