# Accidently Boiled Grain, Have I Ruined My Batch?



## brettule (8/9/09)

As the title suggests I was steeping a relatively small amount of grains for 30 mins when I noticed part way through that it had been boiling. Not very violently but still a boil, not very long either perhaps 5 mins, 10 mins max. Now I know it's BAD to let the steeping grains boil but being my first time I just reduced the flame to let it settle down then continued with the tasks and addded the strained mixture as usual. I then read why it's bad to boil "a harsh, astringent, tannin-like taste and mouthfeel can ruin a whole batch of beer".

In your expierence, what's my likelyhood I've ruined it?


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## Kleiny (8/9/09)

What grains are you steeping?

It is likely that you have extracted tannins if it come to a boil


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## marlow_coates (8/9/09)

Mate I did this with my first steep.
After 4 weeks in the bottle, I had a nice beer, even if it wasn't great.
Don't worry too much.
You live and learn.

FYI I used 150gms of pale crystal.

Marlow


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## Sammus (8/9/09)

yeah don't worry too much. I often get a fair bit of grain in my kettle and never notice anything bad happen - mind you the ratio is probably a bit smaller than what you have experienced - somewhere in the order of half a cup in a 35L boil. The old grumpy's kits even come with instructions that tell you to boil the grain - I did that too and it turned out great. I reckon it's another one of those problems that people over worry about like HSA.


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## mika (8/9/09)

Like marlow says, she'll be right. Might be a little cloudy too, but ferment it out and see what happens. Beer making is a relatively forgiving hobby, you have to screw it up pretty badly before you don't get drinkable beer out of it.


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## Effect (8/9/09)

mate I have boiled my grains for 15 mins numerous times...sometimes 2 seperate times of 15 mins each.

I was doing a decoction though, and then had to boil the whole wort for 60 mins afterwards. So that might have stopped me from getting harsh tannins...

I'm thinking that your beer will be fine...


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## drew9242 (8/9/09)

Im not sure if you have a thermometer but it might be handy next time. Also if you are steeping grain you might find once its at the right temp and all the grain is in the pot you can turn off the stove. I do so and the grain keeps itself at 70 degrees the whole 30 mins with no extra heat. Just a thought for next time.


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## robbo5253 (8/9/09)

As the others have said, dont stress. I used to do the grumpys kits which said to Boil the grains, never experience any off flavours with any of these

Happy Brewing

Robbo


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## Bribie G (8/9/09)

If you are steeping grains such as Caras or Crystals which don't need mashing and you end up boiling them, you may get some tannin extracted from the husks but not necessarily. When steeping I normally do it in a teapot and pour boiling water in and make 'tea' with the grains, let them sit for 30 minutes and strain the liquid off. I've never followed the guidelines of "steep at a constant temperature of 70 degrees....". You should be right.


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## Sammus (8/9/09)

BribieG said:


> If you are steeping grains such as Caras or Crystals which don't need mashing and you end up boiling them, you may get some tannin extracted from the husks but not necessarily. When steeping I normally do it in a teapot and pour boiling water in and make 'tea' with the grains, let them sit for 30 minutes and strain the liquid off. I've never followed the guidelines of "steep at a constant temperature of 70 degrees....". You should be right.



lol if you're steeping at a constant temperature of 70C I think it's called something different than steeping


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## brettule (8/9/09)

I used 130g of Crystal 140 grain and 40g of Munich malt grain in 2ltr of water. Think I should be safe?


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## Bribie G (8/9/09)

Sammus said:


> lol if you're steeping at a constant temperature of 70C I think it's called something different than steeping


Exactly my point, with the Cara type grains you read over and over again "steep at 70...." which makes me wonder if they are actually confusing it with mashing which, of course, the C- grains don't need as they are premashed. However I give them the benefit of the doubt that they are actually trying to avoid extracting tannins. A good point was made in a post earlier that the triple decoction guys actually boil the bejasus out of huge whacks of the grain itself so really I reckon the tannins thing is possibly a bit of an urban myth.

Edit: maybe some members here have well substantiated cases of beer tainted by tannins from boiled grains, in which case I stand corrected.


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## Gulpa (8/9/09)

Sammus said:


> yeah don't worry too much. I often get a fair bit of grain in my kettle and never notice anything bad happen - mind you the ratio is probably a bit smaller than what you have experienced - somewhere in the order of half a cup in a 35L boil. The old grumpy's kits even come with instructions that tell you to boil the grain - I did that too and it turned out great. I reckon it's another one of those problems that people over worry about like HSA.




I remember this one being asked on the old Grumpys forum. The answer had something to do with the gravity of the solution the grains are boiled in. Apparently the Masterbrews where you boiled the grains for 15 minutes didnt extract tanins because they also had DME and other sugars in the mix. 

I did a few of these. Great beeres and never had a problem with tannins (not sure if I would have known if I did anyway - still wouldnt).

Someone else may be able to provide more info.


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## manticle (8/9/09)

Hand up for another who's done it with no massively bad results. I'm sure if you compared a side by side you might notice something but basically it happened and you will still be able to make beer from it and you will still be able to drink that beer and you will still be able to enjoy that beer, all other things being equal.


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## bradmcm (8/9/09)

Gulpa said:


> I remember this one being asked on the old Grumpys forum. The answer had something to do with the gravity of the solution the grains are boiled in. Apparently the Masterbrews where you boiled the grains for 15 minutes didnt extract tanins because they also had DME and other sugars in the mix.
> 
> I did a few of these. Great beeres and never had a problem with tannins (not sure if I would have known if I did anyway - still wouldnt).
> 
> Someone else may be able to provide more info.



Not the gravity, but the pH is the main factor. Tannins extract under high pH levels. When you have malt extract/wort present you have an acidic solution. If you were to boil grains in plain water (tap water is usually alkaline) you have a much greater chance of tannin extraction.
This is why decoction mashing and the procedure for the Grumpy's/Still Brewing kits - works. If you were to sift the grains out of the Masterbrew bags and boil them separately in water, you would likely to get tannin extraction.


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## boybrewer (8/9/09)

Mate don't worry about it too much, I was doing my first decoction of a wheat beer and boiled the bejesus out of it and turned it into a dark porridge it still turned out a great WIT beer.


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## buttersd70 (8/9/09)

@bribie: one of the main reasons that people recomend a specific temperature for steeping has nothing to do with the actual steep itself, but rather is a sneaky way of getting people into good habits for the future...and watching the fun when the penny _finaly _drops, and that they can now just sub some base grain in and do a mash, with no significant change to what they're already doing. :lol: And they always say the same thing...."oh, I didn't realise that mashing was that simple  "


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## petesbrew (9/9/09)

I reckon you'll be right.
Live and learn, dude. And always drink the results, well, that which is not infected.


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## gibbocore (9/9/09)

mate, the germans have been boiling their grains for years.


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## robbo5253 (9/9/09)

buttersd70 said:


> @bribie: one of the main reasons that people recomend a specific temperature for steeping has nothing to do with the actual steep itself, but rather is a sneaky way of getting people into good habits for the future...and watching the fun when the penny _finaly _drops, and that they can now just sub some base grain in and do a mash, with no significant change to what they're already doing. :lol: And they always say the same thing...."oh, I didn't realise that mashing was that simple  "



Ha, i think I fell for this doing my first extract last week, bought it up to temp and held for 30 minutes without a hassle!

My only problem now is finding my Hydrometer and getting into practice of using it!

Cheers

Robbo


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## katzke (9/9/09)

One of my favorite subjects, Boiling Grain.

Medium long answer As has been pointed out it is the pH of the liquid that you boil the grains in that makes the difference. I looked at the amount of grain and the amount of water you used and I think you will be ok. Where the problem occurs is when the water is significantly more then the grain and the pH stays high or alkaline. The reason why almost if not all brewing literature says to not boil the grain is many sources say to add the grain to large amounts of water. By doing so the pH will stay high and tannins can be extracted. Heat does play a part in rinsing the tannins that the pH has extracted but heat alone does not increase the tannins. The best example of when we want to boil grain is when we do a decoction. Not to give a complete definition or reason why decoction is used, just say that part of the grain and just enough liquid to keep from burning the grain is removed and boiled. The key is the amount of liquid is low so the pH will stay low and the boiled grain will not have enough tannin extracted to effect the taste of the finished beer.

Short answer Relax do not worry and have a beer. Just try and not boil the grain unless you have a reason.


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