# Trub in the fermenter



## Middo (14/1/14)

Hi Guys,

I'm on my 4th AG with BIAB and I did a couple brews on the weekend, 1 of them I managed to suck a bit of the trub after chilling. It looks I could have a litre or more in the fermenter.

Just wanted to check if this is going to cause any issues. The beer is going to have alot of dry hopping and I suspect with the yeast to settle too that what will settle on the bottom will be above the tap at the bottom of the fermenter. I might try putting something under the fv at the front to have it settle at the back as I'd prefer to be able to transfer to the keg via the tap.

I'm also thinking I might get some cheese cloth or something to put on the end of the hose to eliminate any chances of the mess at the bottom getting into the keg. Is there anything more I should do? Hoping this little mistake doesn't spoil the beer in anyway, it's fermenting well, checked it yesterday and it's bubbling away through the airlock.

Cheers!
Middo


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## Midnight Brew (14/1/14)

Trub shouldnt have too much impact on the brew or do you mean hot break or cold break?

If its bothering you and you have a spare FV you could try double dropping. It needs to be done by the 4 and 16 hour mark (closer to 16 is best as most of the trub will settle out by then). You take your sanitised FV and place it under your current FV (sitting on a bench or milk crate) and let the tap open. It gives the yeast a second burst of oxygen during its growth phase and leaves all the shit behind in the first FV.

I think your brew will be fine regardless.


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## joshuahardie (14/1/14)

This is not something I would worry about, and there is nothing that you need to do.
Ferment as normal, the trub will settle with the yeast, and transfer to keg as normal.

Your idea to tilt the fermenter, so no hops/yeast/trub will be above the tap is fine. 
You could also transfer the beer to a secondary fermenter to clear the small amount of hop debris you may transfer to keep it out of your keg.

I would not bother trying to filter it into the keg, you will probably have more hassles with trying to sanitise the bag, that it is worth. Oxidisation is also somthing that may occur.

Anyway, all seems fine carry on


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## Middo (14/1/14)

Midnight Brew said:


> Trub shouldnt have too much impact on the brew or do you mean hot break or cold break?
> 
> If its bothering you and you have a spare FV you could try double dropping. It needs to be done by the 4 and 16 hour mark (closer to 16 is best as most of the trub will settle out by then). You take your sanitised FV and place it under your current FV (sitting on a bench or milk crate) and let the tap open. It gives the yeast a second burst of oxygen during its growth phase and leaves all the shit behind in the first FV.
> 
> I think your brew will be fine regardless.


My terminology might not be right.

The 'trub' or cold break? is what had settled at the bottom of the kettle after chilling, prior to transfer to the fv. It's mostly the heavy particles from the grain and hops that where added during the boil that I was referring to.

Thanks for the responses, I think I might just tilt it back some and carry on.

Another question which probably doesn't need a topic, is 1 packet of US-05 (manufactured within 4 months of use) enough for a 20 litre batch with a target alcohol between 7-7.5%? Not sure if there's any limits to what a single packet is good for, I have more in the fridge so adding another isn't a problem.

I bought the yeast from Yakima Valley Hops, $3US a bag and all appears to be working well with the 2 batches I brewed on the weekend.


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## damoninja (14/1/14)

Agree - I wouldn't use cheesecloth for sanitary reasons, you can get an inline irrigation filter (cold use only) or an inline screen if you want to filter out of the kettle. 

If I dry hop, I use the irrigation filter and get no oxidation as flow is not reduced. 
If there's heaps of hop matter in my kettle I plan to use the mesh screen on the end of my hose (haven't used it yet)

Irrigation filter
http://www.bunnings.com.au/poly-irrigation-pope-13mm-inline-flt-barbd-1011111b_p3127265

Transfer screen 
https://nationalhomebrew.com.au/beer/brewing-equipment-pots-and-hardware/other-in-line-transfer-screen-12mm


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## damoninja (14/1/14)

Middo said:


> Another question which probably doesn't need a topic, is 1 packet of US-05 (manufactured within 4 months of use) enough for a 20 litre batch with a target alcohol between 7-7.5%? Not sure if there's any limits to what a single packet is good for, I have more in the fridge so adding another isn't a problem.


Yep - I did an IPA with an OG of 1.075 at 25 litres... Technically I should have used 1.5 (2) packets but I had no issues, however I did have one on standby just in case. 

Here's a tool to help you calculate. 
http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html


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## Middo (14/1/14)

damoninja said:


> Agree - I wouldn't use cheesecloth for sanitary reasons, you can get an inline irrigation filter (cold use only) or an inline screen if you want to filter out of the kettle.
> 
> If I dry hop, I use the irrigation filter and get no oxidation as flow is not reduced.
> If there's heaps of hop matter in my kettle I plan to use the mesh screen on the end of my hose (haven't used it yet)
> ...


Thanks for the tips, to date I've just used my hop sock to collect the crap that gets through the hose from dry hopping. I don't use the hop sock anymore as I just throw all the hops into the kettle and fv.

How long did you ferment the 25 litres for? I was going to give it 3 weeks but if I should go another week to let it work it's way through the sugar I don't mind being patient.


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## damoninja (14/1/14)

Middo said:


> Thanks for the tips, to date I've just used my hop sock to collect the crap that gets through the hose from dry hopping. I don't use the hop sock anymore as I just throw all the hops into the kettle and fv.
> 
> How long did you ferment the 25 litres for? I was going to give it 3 weeks but if I should go another week to let it work it's way through the sugar I don't mind being patient.


I had that one in for 16 days... Ales usually finish fermenting in 4-5 days but you should leave it minimum 2 weeks, if you were planning to leave it 3 just do that or bottle whenever is convenient after the 2 week mark.

Yeast cleans up and other rubbish happens even after the yeast is finished eating sugars  

After I pitch I check for a day or two to make sure everything's OK, take a hydro reading on about day 6-7, forget about it for a week, bottle when I have time.


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## flano (15/1/14)

I do all grain BIAB and once it has finished boiling and cooling I just pour the lot into the fermenter.
Add the water, yeast and ferment.
I have left out the (cold break -thicker gunk) after it has cooled on a few occasions and to be honest I couldn't tell the difference at the end.

as for dry hopping - I was told by a professional beer maker to just check it in.
He said it would maybe even give off more flavour than being compacted in a hop sock.
And he makes awesome beer.

Sometimes after it has finished fermenting I stick the entire fermenter in the fridge for a few days. All the bits sink to the bottom.
I also re-use my yeast with excellent results.

That inch or 2 of sludge at the bottom of the fermenter I pour into a sanitized container , cover with glad wrap and keep in the fridge.
I name and date it.
Next time I need e.g US-05 I get it out of the fridge and go to the Mr Malty website
It has a yeast calculator . You just put in beer type , production date - repatch from slurry etc etc and it will tell you how many mills of yeast you need .
It has never failed me.

Just pour the clear liquid off your recycled yeast before you pitch.


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## damoninja (15/1/14)

Flano said:


> I do all grain BIAB and once it has finished boiling and cooling I just pour the lot into the fermenter.
> Add the water, yeast and ferment.
> I have left out the (cold break -thicker gunk) after it has cooled on a few occasions and to be honest I couldn't tell the difference at the end.
> 
> ...


I've had like 5 litres of trub before resulting in a frustrating time bottling, I always whirlpool / settle before placing into my cubes now and I get about 300-400mL of trub. Much better. 

I always dry hop straight into the fv, don't like the idea of a bag getting pesky bacterias into my beer.
Most beers I also cold crash at 1-2 degrees, always when dry hopping. 

How long to you keep your sludge yeast in the fridge for? I've been reusing my yeasts for a while now but generally only from one brew to the next, not stored for any period of time.


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## flano (15/1/14)

depending on the type of yeast - US-05 gets used up pretty quickly. approx. 4 weeks.
I have used some that was 6 months old and it still worked.

I have re -used different types of white labs pils and Kolsch. all were at least 4 weeks old.
The older it is the more you need going by Mr Malty yeast calculator.


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## damoninja (15/1/14)

Flano said:


> depending on the type of yeast - US-05 gets used up pretty quickly. approx. 4 weeks.
> I have used some that was 6 months old and it still worked.
> 
> I have re -used different types of white labs pils and Kolsch. all were at least 4 weeks old.
> The older it is the more you need going by Mr Malty yeast calculator.


Interesting stuff... I'll give this a shot when my current batch is finished, I have some an old ale on S04 now, and planning an imperial stout soon for the winter so the extra yeast will be critical.


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## Middo (15/1/14)

Flano said:


> I do all grain BIAB and once it has finished boiling and cooling I just pour the lot into the fermenter.
> Add the water, yeast and ferment.
> I have left out the (cold break -thicker gunk) after it has cooled on a few occasions and to be honest I couldn't tell the difference at the end.
> 
> ...


I'm keen to recycle my yeast at some point, when i start experimenting with the liquid yeasts I'll look to do this. Now that I'm getting US-05 for $3US a packet I don't mind paying that and I want to get t recirculating plate and some glass vials though I'm limiting my spending to catch up on post xmas spending..... 

I need to read up on the process some more, I can recall seeing some posts about what to keep and what to ditch... with dry hopping pretty much everything I brew I tend to get a bit of mess at the bottom of the fv.

The rest of the brewing you explained I'm pretty much doing the same, I ferment 3 weeks and crash the beer for a week at low temp before kegging. I realise I could turn this around quicker but another mate who brewed recommended being patient at fermenting stage and explained it will allow the beer to condition more & produce clearer beers... another brewer recommended cold crashing us-05 for a week minimum as was told the yeast has a tendency to suspend within the beer and any more time you can give to this stage will prevent noticeable amounts of yeast from settling at the bottom of the keg.


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## damoninja (15/1/14)

They cost me $4.90

I figure my average grain bill is $15 to $17, hops $5 to $10, the $5 reduction of reusing yeast is significant enough.


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## Middo (15/1/14)

damoninja said:


> They cost me $4.90
> 
> I figure my average grain bill is $15 to $17, hops $5 to $10, the $5 reduction of reusing yeast is significant enough.


Yeah that's definitely reason enough, any savings are worth it especially when multiplied by the number of times you brew... I'm still pretty green with the brewing and more worried that I'd mess the reusing yeast part up and end up with a grain and hop bill being wasted. Will definitely do it in future, for now though the yeast cost is just insurance against me messing up, plus there's more expense in glassware, recirculating plates etc.

I want to get into bulk grain too, my grain bill costs around $32-40 milled & delivered for a 5-6.5kg brew... Once I get my own mini mill sorted I'll move onto recycling the yeast.

As for the hops, I already bulk import via Yakima mostly and have a vacuum sealer to keep things fresh, I find the savings here are the most significant as most of my beers I want to make are all very hoppy 100-250grams per keg.


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## damoninja (15/1/14)

All I do at the moment is:

Bottle current batch
Give the yeast cake a swirl with the last slightest amount of beer
Run it off with the tap into a sterile container
Sterilise outside of fermenter and cube
Empty cube into fermenter 
Use a sterile measure to pitch yeast slurry
Seal fermenter
If you're not doing a no-chill things would be ever slightly different in the sense that you'll have to line a brew day with a bottle day and get your finished batch bottled while your other one is boiling... 

If you can't deal with the logistics of that might just need to keep the yeast for a bit!

Keeping the yeast in the fridge is effectively the same thing... All you need to do is sterilise some glass jars either in the oven or in boiling water. 

Boiling water is a good way to do it, you can keep the water they were boiled in and put it in the jar sealing while hot, so you have water to add to your slurry for washing.


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## flano (16/1/14)

I save my yeast because I buy my grain in bulk and don't know what type of beer I am going to make until the day.


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## damoninja (16/1/14)

Flano said:


> I save my yeast because I buy my grain in bulk and don't know what type of beer I am going to make until the day.


I pre-pay my grains at bulk prices and get them milled into a bag and delivered for free (god bless the brewadelaide service) so have the opportunity to get any yeast with it as I need it... 

It's mostly the cost saving for me, yeast being 20-30% of the cost of a brew allows me to save enough in a few brews for another entire brew!


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## Middo (16/1/14)

damoninja said:


> I pre-pay my grains at bulk prices and get them milled into a bag and delivered for free (god bless the brewadelaide service) so have the opportunity to get any yeast with it as I need it...
> 
> It's mostly the cost saving for me, yeast being 20-30% of the cost of a brew allows me to save enough in a few brews for another entire brew!


That's pretty awesome, bulk prices, milled and delivered for free when you need it.... I wonder if they deliver interstate.

Just had a look at the site, the prices are pretty good too.


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