# Centennial, Cascade & Amarillo - Would You Bother...



## bcp (2/10/12)

I have a stack of cascade, but I've got a recipe calling for centennial and another for amarillo. According to brewing classic styles hop wheel, cascade/ centennial/ amarillo are very similar. Are they? Would you bother spending $6-9 for something this close - or just use the cascade? Are there subtleties here that are worth the effort? 

More specifically, one is in an Alesmith IPA clone with a veritable garden of hops (simcoe, columbus, cascade, chinook, amarillo). 
The other is a Mack'n'Jack African Amber clone (an absolutely brilliant drop, btw), where the centennial is bittering and the flavour/aroma is cascade. 
I don't mind spending money if there's something there to be had...


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## kevo (2/10/12)

Spend $6-9 and find out how similar you think they are.

I think it's worth bothering...


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## Sunshine_Brewer (2/10/12)

Yes I would bother, I know cascade can be cheap and top notch but there are subtleties that it can not replicate. 
If you want to save some coin just change what your brewing and do an Epic Pale Ale clone, all cascade from memory :chug:


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## QldKev (2/10/12)

Amarillo and Cascade may be close on the wheel, but they do taste different. 

QldKev


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## bcp (2/10/12)

QldKev said:


> Amarillo and Cascade may be close on the wheel, but they do taste different.
> 
> QldKev


great, thanks, that's all i needed to hear. 

If i brewed more it'd be great to brew a few more single hop ales to really get to know a few more hops.


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## black_labb (2/10/12)

I've heard that this seasons amarillo is quite harsh so I'd probably give that a miss. I find cascade quite floral where centennial is a fruitier hop, stronger flavour too IMO. Probably better suited to an IPA but not a deal breaker.


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## razz (2/10/12)

I vote for more of you're version of the African amber Brett, lovely drop that last one.


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## waggastew (2/10/12)

Alesmith IPA hop bill gives a very nice AIPA result. The different hops bring different things that all go together to form a solid West Coast style beer.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (2/10/12)

I've learned the hard way that similar descriptors don't mean they are the same hop.

And mutiple varieties of "similar" hops give great complexity to one beer. Centennial and Cascade in the same beer, despite being considered very close, proves that.

Another AHB member (manticle) makes a similar point when he says that choosing any high AA% for bittering is a poor choice, because even 60-90m additions still impart flavour.

Same principle - 'hops ain't hops', and any variation in varieties will change the end result.

Goomba


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## black_labb (3/10/12)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> I've learned the hard way that similar descriptors don't mean they are the same hop.
> 
> And mutiple varieties of "similar" hops give great complexity to one beer. Centennial and Cascade in the same beer, despite being considered very close, proves that.
> 
> ...



Nothing wrong with high alpha hops, just don't use hops you don't like the flavour of. Some high alpha hops have a great flavour, some have a harsh flavour. some high alpha hops are great for late additions but have a harsh bitteness when used for a bittering addition. 

I use alot of pacific gem and am often cutting back the bittering additions to close to nothing so I can get more of the high alpha pacific gem in at the late additions without over bittering the beer.


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## tiprya (3/10/12)

This has some good flavour descriptors for the Northwestern hops:
http://beervana.blogspot.com.au/2012/09/ho...ence-guide.html

I find Amarillo gives some 'peachy' 'stone fruit' flavours that Cascade doesn't give. Both great hops, and freshness is important.


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## manticle (3/10/12)

black_labb said:


> Nothing wrong with high alpha hops, just don't use hops you don't like the flavour of. Some high alpha hops have a great flavour, some have a harsh flavour. some high alpha hops are great for late additions but have a harsh bitteness when used for a bittering addition.
> 
> I use alot of pacific gem and am often cutting back the bittering additions to close to nothing so I can get more of the high alpha pacific gem in at the late additions without over bittering the beer.





I think Raja meant choosing 'any' as in not considering the choice (ie 'any old...') rather than 'any and every'.


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## stakka82 (3/10/12)

To my palette (I've been doing quite a few single hop american beers lately):

Cascade = Grapefruit/lemon
Amarillo = apricot/peach - too much so for my personal tastes, great with other hops or in moderation imo
Centennial = similar to cascade, but stronger, and slightly different in a way i love, less cloying

So to answer the question, they're quite different I reckon


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## Yob (3/10/12)

stakka82 said:


> Cascade
> Amarillo
> Centennial



all 3 

:icon_drool2:


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## hopnerd (3/10/12)

bcp said:


> The other is a Mack'n'Jack African Amber clone (an absolutely brilliant drop, btw)



:icon_offtopic: 

Couldn't agree more with the Mack 'n' Jack. Any chance you could post the recipe? I've been struggling to find anything similar here since we came back from the states.


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## bcp (3/10/12)

hopnerd said:


> :icon_offtopic:
> 
> Couldn't agree more with the Mack 'n' Jack. Any chance you could post the recipe? I've been struggling to find anything similar here since we came back from the states.


Sure, i'll post it. The guy who worked on this clone made about 12 different attempts before he was happy with it. It's a killer. :chug:


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## black_labb (3/10/12)

manticle said:


> I think Raja meant choosing 'any' as in not considering the choice (ie 'any old...') rather than 'any and every'.



I think he understood your original statement, but his quick explanation didn't quite make the full point so I felt a bit extra was needed.


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## mkstalen (3/10/12)

Have a look at the last page on this thread.
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...53685&st=40

Then go buy some of those beers to get an idea of the different flavours for some of the different hop varieties.


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## Franko (3/10/12)

QldKev said:


> Amarillo and Cascade may be close on the wheel, but they do taste different.
> 
> QldKev


True that


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## Brewer_010 (4/10/12)

Yob said:


> all 3
> 
> :icon_drool2:



+1 with some simcoe thrown in, bloody awesome!

Amarillo and cascade together go really well - I find cascade is more grapefruity whereas amarillo is stone fruit (almost perfumy) and more subtle.


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## Pommy Matt (4/10/12)

If you want to get a feel for Centennial, you could do a lot worse than this Bells Two Hearted clone, which got me 3rd place APA at the state comp a few weeks back. Absolutely beautiful IMHO! Not my recipe I hasten to add, although tweaked slightly. Ignore the acid malt thats just for ph adjustment and the original is just US 2 row, not MO but I think it adds a certain something.



> Recipe Specifications
> --------------------------
> Boil Size: 35.78 l
> Post Boil Volume: 33.28 l
> ...


mash at 66.5 for 0 mins and dry hop with another 60g of Centennial - you know it makes sense  Wyeast 1272 American AleII


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## bcp (4/10/12)

Pommy Matt said:


> If you want to get a feel for Centennial, you could do a lot worse than this Bells Two Hearted clone, which got me 3rd place APA at the state comp a few weeks back. Absolutely beautiful IMHO! Not my recipe I hasten to add, although tweaked slightly. Ignore the acid malt thats just for ph adjustment and the original is just US 2 row, not MO but I think it adds a certain something.
> 
> 
> mash at 66.5 for 0 mins and dry hop with another 60g of Centennial - you know it makes sense  Wyeast 1272 American AleII


Looks like a cracker. Might add that one to my list. Can think of worse ways to get to know a hop.


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