# Diy Counter Flow Chiller



## sidearm (28/1/12)

Hi,
i'd like to make my own CFC and but i'm not sure what type of hose i can get away with that'll last a long time. What's a good hose to use that's not gonna burn my pocket too much? i'll use 12mm (1/2") inner tube so i'll need maybe a 19mm (3/4") ID hose (is that alright?).

Would your average garden hose be ok? or any pvc hose will do?

cheers,
desmo


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## katzke (28/1/12)

desmo said:


> Hi,
> i'd like to make my own CFC and but i'm not sure what type of hose i can get away with that'll last a long time. What's a good hose to use that's not gonna burn my pocket too much? i'll use 12mm (1/2") inner tube so i'll need maybe a 19mm (3/4") ID hose (is that alright?).
> 
> Would your average garden hose be ok? or any pvc hose will do?
> ...



Your using this for wort?


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (28/1/12)

I reckon its for his meth lab...... maybe he should check out www.aussiemethlabber.com.au




Honestly.................


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## Wolfy (28/1/12)

desmo said:


> Would your average garden hose be ok? or any pvc hose will do?


The wort-in and the water-out ends both tend to get very hot (close to boiling), so while garden-hose does work fine, I'm not sure I'd go for the black-polly-type pipe you can buy.


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## IainMcLean (28/1/12)

_WALLACE_ said:


> I reckon its for his meth lab...... maybe he should check out www.aussiemethlabber.com.au



Sounds like a cool place. Almost entrepreneurial. 
I might join up but their thread on crystallizing versus no crystallizing seems pointless and kinda bores me...


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## Greg Lawrence (28/1/12)

Yippie Ki Yay said:


> Sounds like a cool place. Almost entrepreneurial.
> I might join up but their thread on crystallizing versus no crystallizing seems pointless and kinda bores me...



Is that you Heisenberg?Walter?


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## alfadog (28/1/12)

Gregor said:


> Is that you Heisenberg?Walter?



Totally going to make some "fat stacks"


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## yardy (28/1/12)

katzke said:


> Your using this for wort?





take a wild guess..


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## woodwormm (28/1/12)

Gregor said:


> Is that you Heisenberg?Walter?




i hate it when i get the barrels mixed up and my ales come out all blue and funky and my sheets of crystal are malty...


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## sidearm (28/1/12)

Wolfy said:


> The wort-in and the water-out ends both tend to get very hot (close to boiling), so while garden-hose does work fine, I'm not sure I'd go for the black-polly-type pipe you can buy.



Thanks for the input Wolfy. i wasn't sure if the garden hose would last because of the heat of the wort/water involved. I'm still a bit unconvinced that it'll last that long but don't mind being proved wrong. it'll be the cheapest option i think. Does anyone have one made from normal garden hose?

TIA for any input.

_Wallace_ : You've a sarcastic sense of humour mate. I didn't know AHB isn't just about brewing beer. Now i know better 

Seriously though, I am in a beer forum....... right??


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## katzke (28/1/12)

Well he was not clear. Some of you use pre-chillers to cool tank water and an immersion chiller. All the self made counter flow chillers used on wort here in the USA use copper for the inside that has wort flowing through it, and cheep clear plastic tubing (same as used for transfer tubing) as the outside. Who cares what the hot water tastes like, I do care what the final beer will taste like. Copper is a good conductor of heat.

Do not have the specs for a home built counter flow chiller, however I would think about 3 meters of copper would work. The fun part of home builts is finding the correct fittings for the ends. You dont want cold or warm water all over the place.

Home built counter flow chillers are not as efficient as a real one. If your water is not cold enough then you will not get very good results. Our tap water is cold and you get pitchable wort with as fast of a flow as you can get with a commercial chiller. Good results from home made ones if they are long enough, though you may have to slow the wort down a bit.

So if you are using Copper for the inside, then use whatever you have that fits the fittings you have for the ends for the outside. If you are going to drink or water the garden then I would use something suitable.

See how easy it would have been for them to answer my simple question? I could have given a simple answer instead of a long one with out all the stupid posts to clog up the thread.


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## yardy (28/1/12)

katzke said:


> See how easy it would have been for them to answer my simple question? I could have given a simple answer instead of a long one with out all the stupid posts to clog up the thread.


why didn't you just throw caution to the wind and assume it was wort, he said CFC, not pre chiller or immersion chiller.




@ desmo, beerbelly have one here http://www.beerbelly.com.au/chilling.html if you're looking for inspiration.

Yard


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## paulwolf350 (28/1/12)

I made one 3 years ago, used 8 metres of 10mm copper and a regular garden hose and pre fabbed ends from beer belly.
This unit is still going strong!

I dont think you need to use 1/2 in, and if you do, it will need to be longer (prob 12 - 15 metre) to allow time for the wort to exchange heat, mine works excellent running straight off the tap, although a pre chiller would be good for lagers


HTH

Paul


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## sidearm (28/1/12)

Thanks Paul, I'll give the garden hose a go. I had a look at Bunnings a week ago and the smallest copper pipes i saw were 1/2" (12mm) OD types where they sell in 18M rolls. It's possible that it's ID is 10mm i don't know. Maybe we're talking about the same ones.?

Anyone want to go half on an 18M roll? 

Also, i see now that my original post wasn't clear.. i should've also said that i'm basing my build on this one http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php...er_Flow_Chiller but the hose he's using seems to be for hot water and they're not cheap that's why i was asking if i could use other materials. My bad 





paulwolf350 said:


> I made one 3 years ago, used 8 metres of 10mm copper and a regular garden hose and pre fabbed ends from beer belly.
> This unit is still going strong!
> 
> I dont think you need to use 1/2 in, and if you do, it will need to be longer (prob 12 - 15 metre) to allow time for the wort to exchange heat, mine works excellent running straight off the tap, although a pre chiller would be good for lagers
> ...


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## paulwolf350 (28/1/12)

the 1/2 inch is a tight fit in (normal size) garden hose, you will need something bigger, as you said in your post.


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## Wolfy (28/1/12)

katzke said:


> Home built counter flow chillers are not as efficient as a real one.


I have no idea what you mean by this, the boiling wort from my kettle was cooled to within 1 or 2 degrees of the tap-water, as quickly as I could drain the kettle.
That's pretty efficient and useful if you ask me.


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## Thefatdoghead (29/1/12)

desmo said:


> Hi,
> i'd like to make my own CFC and but i'm not sure what type of hose i can get away with that'll last a long time. What's a good hose to use that's not gonna burn my pocket too much? i'll use 12mm (1/2") inner tube so i'll need maybe a 19mm (3/4") ID hose (is that alright?).
> 
> Would your average garden hose be ok? or any pvc hose will do?
> ...


I was going to make a counterflow chiller because I got some cheap copper off a mate but then I just ended up using it as and emersion chiller and it worked not bad. Then I bought a plate heat exchanger from craftbrewer and im pretty happy with the efficiency of it. Run wort straight into the fermenter at the same temp as tap water going in.
I priced up making a counterflow chiller with all items bought from bunnings and it was going to cost around $80-$90 and im pretty sure the 30 plate chiller is about $130. 
I just think the plate chiller has a couple more advantages than the other types of chillers for not much more $


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## katzke (29/1/12)

Wolfy said:


> I have no idea what you mean by this, the boiling wort from my kettle was cooled to within 1 or 2 degrees of the tap-water, as quickly as I could drain the kettle.
> That's pretty efficient and useful if you ask me.



How big/long is it? A plate chiller is small. The Chilzilla is a very small coil.

Yes home builts work, just need to be larger to work. Possible they require larger water flow also.


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## alfadog (29/1/12)

The 10mm copper tubing can be purchased from an air conditioning supplier, it is much cheaper than the 12mm that you can find at most stores. The only issue I have found with the 10mm tubing is the lack of compression fittings, all fittings will most likely have to be brazed


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## IPWS (29/1/12)

I made mine from garden hose and 10mm copper tube and used 3/8 swagelock tees at either end the swagelock tees have a 3/8 bsp outlet so i just made adapters to get 3/4 bsp to get on to the hose tap i also had to run a 12 mm drill halfway through the swagelock to allow clearance for water in/out the length of hose was 10 meters


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (29/1/12)

IPWS said:


> View attachment 52024
> I made mine from garden hose and 10mm copper tube and used 3/8 swagelock tees at either end the swagelock tees have a 3/8 bsp outlet so i just made adapters to get 3/4 bsp to get on to the hose tap i also had to run a 12 mm drill halfway through the swagelock to allow clearance for water in/out the length of hose was 10 meters




Do you have a closer photo of the chiller?


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## IPWS (29/1/12)

_WALLACE_ said:


> Do you have a closer photo of the chiller?



i did have but lost them somewhere when we moved here from NZ


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## brucearnold (29/1/12)

katzke said:


> Home built counter flow chillers are not as efficient as a real one.



I presume this statement is based on that home made counter flow chillers do not have devices to make the water turbulent as it flow around the inner tube.

When I first thought about crafting one of these there was a lot of talk on how to replicate this. The end result was something like to attach a thin copper wire strip to the outside of the copper coil to break up the laminar flow of the water.

Now I cannot say if this is the solution, as I ended up using an immersion chiller instead, but others may be able to elaborate further and if this indeed works.


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## pk.sax (29/1/12)

You could roughen up the outside of the copper coil and that would introduce enough turbulence.
In the tight fit between inner tube and outer hose though, I wonder if there is enough space for a boundary layer to form? i.e., I'm dubious about how much benefit will be gained from turbidising the flow in this case.


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## yardy (29/1/12)

why not build a hybrid chiller ?

Yard


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## pk.sax (29/1/12)

I was thinking a cfc like your's but installed in a pail to chill the outer tube with ice...


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## yardy (29/1/12)

practicalfool said:


> I was thinking a cfc like your's but installed in a pail to chill the outer tube with ice...




would've been a pita to squeeze into a bucket so i went with a pre chiller 











Yard


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## Joel (29/1/12)

Desmo,

I've also been considering making my own CFC. I'm currently no-chilling at the moment which is OK (and can be an advantage like today as my yeast starter isn't ready so I'll definitely keep no-chill as a backup), but I'd prefer using a good chiller. I have a 15 meter roll of 3/8" copper tube bought from Polyaire (a refrigeration place) relatively cheaply. My plan was to use half of it in a HERMS coil and the rest in a CFC. John Palmers book "How to Brew" gives good directions on how to build a CFC (the 1st edition of his book is free online, just google it). Ultimately, I might end up buying a plate chiller. For $130 it's a pretty cost effective solution. Considering the cost of all of the fittings and adapters you'll need, like another poster said it can add up to close to the plate chiller cost. And don't forget to include the price of your time. I came to the conclusion a few years ago that my time was worth about $30 an hour for my hobbies and a lot more for jobs I don't like. Taking this into consideration, spending hours fart-arsing around building building a CFC is alot more expensive than simply buying a plate chiller and getting on with brewing or spending some more time with the family.


Currently drinking: Murray's 'Heart of Darkness' Imperial Stout.


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (29/1/12)

yardy said:


> would've been a pita to squeeze into a bucket so i went with a pre chiller
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'd love to know how you put that together yardy!


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## pk.sax (29/1/12)

I really like the simple way the wiki the OP linked to has put together the end fittings. Also like the way hardy has an all metal cfc, I think I'll have a go at making the same kin as hardy has, except, find a larger and smaller Dow copper tube that will coil one inside the other. Then fit it all in a bucket/pot of some sort.

My end goal is to have a cfc chiller that I can gravity feed from the kettle and dump one bag of servo ice onto to bring to within a few degrees of pitching temperature. Actually, I wonder if I can lay my hands on brass 3/4" compression fittings. That would mean two compression fittings on a 3/4" t piece on each end + a 3/4" hose barb (normal garden hose barb from bunnings).

Will have to draw it up and post a plan.


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## pk.sax (29/1/12)

Anyone know where I could get a couple of these? (In Australia I mean - or affordably anyway)


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (31/1/12)

practicalfool said:


> Anyone know where I could get a couple of these? (In Australia I mean - or affordably anyway)
> View attachment 52044




Go to a local hydraulic place. I know for a fact that RYCO make a fitting like that.


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## phoenixdigital (9/2/15)

Rather than start up a new thread on this I thought I would append to this older thread as I had a lot of trouble finding information about the right fittings needed to make one of these

So I wanted to make something like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVf-lTFpR2c

I was originally trying to find all the fittings to put it together but was having trouble working out which fitting to get for the end piece where the copper tubing comes out.

While at bunnings the guy there wasn't too much help for the threaded parts but did point me towards the right bits if I solder it up (rather than screw it together). I have a small cooking butane torch I got from Aldi a few years back and it worked perfectly for soldering the bits up.

The parts for one chiller
2x 

2x 
Does need a bit of filing to allow the inner copper coil to go competely through.
4x 

2x 

18m of 12mm copper coil (enough for two chillers)
1.5m of 20mm copper pipe straight
1x copper pipe cutter
1x solder

After cutting three pieces of 20mm copper pipe it fits together like this



Assembled



So the threaded connectors are the same size as a normal hose. One will go to a standard pope fitting to clip a hose to. The other will get screwed into Vinyl tubing which the copper coil will go inside.

I have been buying enough parts to build two of them and so far the cost has been $105 each but I am yet to buy the outer hose.

I'm looking at this tubing but am unure if it will hold up to the hot initial temps as things start to cool down.
http://www.mundays.com.au/19mm-cvt-clear-vinyl-tubing.html

Will this tubing be OK?

Finally here is my amateur soldering and the first few fittings. When I started I cut all the 20mm copper lengths at diff sizes. The second one I made a bit neater.



Anyone have any suggestions or obvious design flaws?

When I get the outer tubing I will do a full water test and let you all know how it goes. I just thought I would post the fittings I bought so others dont have as much trouble finding the right parts.


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## Matplat (27/7/15)

Hi phoenix,

I am thinking about one of these as well and also not sure what outer tubing to use.... what did you end up using?

I will be re-circulating water from our rainwater tank that we drink, so I really wan't to be sure I'm not leeching plastic nasties into it.

Unless I can find a cost effective solution, I think a plate chiller will end up being the cheapest/best option.....


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## phoenixdigital (5/8/15)

Bit late responding here but I went with the clear tubing from Mundays. The whole thing works really well.

As for recirculating back into your drinkable water I personally probably wouldn't do it. Next time I brew I will check the temps coming out the other end. I would say they would be pretty high.

The only reason I would advise against it is I remember using vynil tubing once to transfer hot wort from a kettle into a fermenter. The thing almost melted which is when I learnt why people use silicon tubing for hot liquids.

I've heard of people using this sort of hose but again it is not really "food safe"
http://www.bunnings.com.au/holman-25mm-x-20m-sullage-hose-_p3110681


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## Matplat (6/8/15)

Thanks mate, i have put off making the chiller for now anyway but i will bear that all in mind when i do. A full sized kettle became of greater urgency!


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## phoenixdigital (6/8/15)

Some pics of my completed chillers worked out to be about $150 each.




I built one for my mate as the most expensive part was the 18m of copper from bunnings
http://www.bunnings.com.au/syneco-1-2-x-18m-annealed-copper-tube-_p4910009

The second most expensive bit was the vynil tubing.


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## Matplat (6/8/15)

I found some hardcore poly pipe (1" diameter) in a local agricultural supplies place for $1 p/m, sold by the metre, which I will end up using (there has to be some benefit to living in the country right?).

There is also a local fridgie supplies place that sell 18m of 3/8" pipe for $60 so will probably make two and sell one.

How did your cooling performance go?


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## phoenixdigital (6/8/15)

Matplat said:


> How did your cooling performance go?


Cooling performance was so much faster than the standard immersion chiller. I would say about twice as fast and you don't have to sit there jiggling the chiller or stiring the wort like with an immersion chiller.

The only thing I never thought about was there are two ways people use counterflow chillers.


Reciculate cool wort back into the kettle cooling the entire wort faster.
From chiller straight into fermenting vessel.
Method 1 obvioulsy cools the whole wort down from boiling faster stopping the hops from bittering further.

Method 2 leaves hot wort in the pot for longer increasing the hop bittering

I did method 2 the first time and didn't notice too much bitterness and the whole lot was down to about 30 degrees from boiling within 8-10 minutes.

I am thinking of maybe doing option 1 to get to 80 deg... then switching to method 2 to go to the fermenter.

Does anyone know if it will make much difference?

The other trick is to adjust the wort throughput with your kettle tap. Faster the less cooling slower the more cooling.

Edit: Also I noticed from my original post I had soldered a threaded pipe for attaching the vynil tubing. I ended up having to take that off as I couldn't get the vynil tubing over it. Hose clamps hold it on fine.


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## Matplat (6/8/15)

I read someone explain how method 1 is actually slower, I can't remember or work out why, but the fact that you have to cool the pot down as well comes in to it.

Oh yeah that's it, as you cool the entire volume down, your cooling efficiency decreases because the temperature difference between coolant and wort decreases.

If it will do it, I think the best option is to go for method 2. If you pull your hop bag/sock out after the hour, I think any further bittering will be negligible, especially compared to no-chill.


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## UrbanBrewer.WA (30/8/15)

most modern houses hot water systems use plastic pipes . go to reece plumbing they will show you.


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