# Weyermanns Carahell



## Pumpy (24/4/07)

I have never used Carahell before comments please 

Aussie ale 


41 liter batch 
Boil Size: 51.11 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: My Equipment 40 
Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3000.00 gm BB Pale Malt (3.9 EBC) Grain 32.4 % 
3000.00 gm Hoepfner Pilsner malt (3.9 EBC) Grain 32.4 % 
1600.00 gm Weyermann Carahell (25.6 EBC) Grain 17.3 % 
1000.00 gm Weyermann Carapils (Carafoam) (3.9 EBC) Grain 10.8 % 
160.00 gm JWM Crystal 140 (145.8 EBC) Grain 1.7 % 
59.00 gm Northern Brewer [6.60%] (45 min) Hops 21.3 IBU 
65.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [3.30%] (15 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops - 
500.00 gm Cane (Beet) Sugar (0.0 EBC) Sugar 5.4 % 
2 Pkgs Safale US Ale (DCL Yeast #US-56) Yeast-Ale 



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG 
Est Final Gravity: 1.016 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.0 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.6 % 
Bitterness: 21.3 IBU Calories: 90 cal/l 
Est Color: 13.7 EBC Color: Color 


pumpy


----------



## Tony (24/4/07)

hey pumps

I havnt used carrahell either but to my understanding........ and i could be wrong, ita a very pale crystal or caramalt.

I have used lots of TF caramalt @ 25-30 EBC nad it is fabulous stuff to boost the malt profile of a beer.

I uave used it at 5% with great sucess to add a sweet maltyness to lagers and ales but im not to sure how it will work at 17% with 10% carapils in there too. both will add body to the beer and at 21 IBU it may end up way on the sweet side.

If you want to make a good aussie ale keep it simple.

keep the carapils for something else, use 5 to 10% carahell and loose the sugar too.

Up the bitterness to about 28 IBU for a beer at 1.054 and drop the aroma hops to 50g

thats what i would do.

cheers mate


----------



## Pumpy (24/4/07)

Tony said:


> hey pumps
> 
> I havnt used carrahell either but to my understanding........ and i could be wrong, ita a very pale crystal or caramalt.
> 
> ...




Cheers Tony 

pumpy


----------



## Pumpy (24/4/07)

I have rehashed it Tony 


Batch Size: 41.00 L

Boil Size: 51.11 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: My Equipment 40 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3700.00 gm BB Pale Malt (3.9 EBC) Grain 39.1 % 
3700.00 gm Hoepfner Pilsner malt (3.9 EBC) Grain 39.1 % 
1000.00 gm Weyermann Carapils (Carafoam) (3.9 EBC) Grain 10.6 % 
900.00 gm Weyermann Carahell (25.6 EBC) Grain 9.5 % 
160.00 gm JWM Crystal 140 (145.8 EBC) Grain 1.7 % 
59.00 gm Northern Brewer [6.60%] (45 min) Hops 21.3 IBU 
65.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [3.30%] (15 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops - 
2 Pkgs Safale US Ale (DCL Yeast #US-56) Yeast-Ale 



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG 
Est Final Gravity: 1.016 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.0 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.6 % 
Bitterness: 21.3 IBU Calories: 90 cal/l 
Est Color: 12.4 EBC Color:


----------



## Jazman (24/4/07)

with the cara pils and cara hell ur up to nearlly 20 % of the grain bill i would dropp em both down to 10% total max or even less


----------



## Pumpy (24/4/07)

Jazman said:


> with the cara pils and cara hell ur up to nearlly 20 % of the grain bill i would dropp em both down to 10% total max or even less



how about this
Boil Size: 51.11 L 

Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: My Equipment 40 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 
Taste Notes: 

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4200.00 gm BB Pale Malt (3.9 EBC) Grain 44.0 % 
4200.00 gm Hoepfner Pilsner malt (3.9 EBC) Grain 44.0 % 
500.00 gm Weyermann Carahell (25.6 EBC) Grain 5.2 % 
500.00 gm Weyermann Carapils (Carafoam) (3.9 EBC) Grain 5.2 % 
150.00 gm Weyermann Caramunich I (100.5 EBC) Grain 1.6 % 
59.00 gm Northern Brewer [6.60%] (45 min) Hops 21.2 IBU 
65.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [3.30%] (15 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops - 
2 Pkgs Safale US Ale (DCL Yeast #US-56) Yeast-Ale 



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.055 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG 
Est Final Gravity: 1.016 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.1 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.6 % 
Bitterness: 21.2 IBU Calories: 90 cal/l 
Est Color: 10.6 EBC Color:


----------



## Tony (24/4/07)

mate as i said before, you wont need all that carapils, drop it!

run with the crystal and the 5% carahell or drop the dryaral and go to 8% carahell.

looking better.

cheers


----------



## Pumpy (24/4/07)

Tony said:


> mate as i said before, you wont need all that carapils, drop it!
> 
> run with the crystal and the 5% carahell or drop the dryaral and go to 8% carahell.
> 
> ...




Like this Tony 


Amount Item Type % or IBU 

150 gms CaraMunich 1
4300.00 gm BB Pale Malt (3.9 EBC) Grain 45.7 % 
4300.00 gm Hoepfner Pilsner malt (3.9 EBC) Grain 45.7 % 
800.00 gm Weyermann Carahell (25.6 EBC) Grain 8.5 % 
59.00 gm Northern Brewer [6.60%] (45 min) Hops 21.3 IBU 
65.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [3.30%] (15 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops - 
2 Pkgs Safale US Ale (DCL Yeast #US-56) Yeast-Ale 



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.010 SG 
Est Final Gravity: 1.016 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.005 SG


----------



## Tony (24/4/07)

here is what i would do mate

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 41.00 Wort Size (L): 41.00
Total Grain (kg): 9.30
Anticipated OG: 1.054 Plato: 13.24
Anticipated EBC: 10.8
Anticipated IBU: 28.4
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
46.2 4.30 kg. Hoepfner Pilsner malt Germany 1.038 4
46.2 4.30 kg. BB Pale Ale Malt Australia 1.038 7
7.5 0.70 kg. Weyermann Carahell Germany 1.035 26

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
70.00 g. Hallertau Northern Brewer Pellet 6.60 28.4 45 min.
50.00 g. Hallertau Hersbrucker Pellet 3.30 0.0 0 min.


Yeast
-----

what ever pumpy has and wants


----------



## Tony (24/4/07)

just a note.......

I have just kegged a beer made with 95% IMC ale malt and 5% TF caramalt which is the same as the carahell.

here it is

Bulls Tail Pale Ale 3

A ProMash Brewing Session - Recipe Details Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 52.00 Wort Size (L): 52.00
Total Grain (kg): 10.50
Anticipated OG: 1.048 Plato: 11.86
Anticipated EBC: 8.2
Anticipated IBU: 26.9
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
95.2 10.00 kg. IMC Ale Malt Australia 1.038 4
4.8 0.50 kg. TF Caramalt UK 1.034 30

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
20.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 8.40 8.1 40 min.
20.00 g. B-Saaz Pellet 6.70 6.5 40 min.
30.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 8.40 6.9 15 min.
30.00 g. B-Saaz Pellet 6.70 5.5 15 min.
40.00 g. Amarillo Gold Pellet 8.40 0.0 0 min.
40.00 g. B-Saaz Pellet 6.70 0.0 0 min.


Yeast
-----

US-56




Its tasting and smelling great.

the sweet malty character from the caramalt has helped ballance out the hops. 

thats the key mate

BALLANCE!

thats the word i think of when i formulate anything. 

all that crystal and carapils would add huge anounts of body and the beer at the BU:GU ratio of 0.38:1 would have been heavy and cloying.

get that BU:GU ratio up around 0.5:1 to 0.6:1 mark to ballance the malt and make it easy drinking. If its brewing dry you dont want it too bitter.

hope this helps a bit

cheers mate


----------



## brendanos (24/4/07)

Weyermann recommend usage of 10-15%, or up to 30% in light or draught beers. I'd take Tony's advice and use just the Carahell alongside the base malts (i'd personally use 10-13%), you'll have a much better idea of how to use it/what with next time around.


----------



## Pumpy (25/4/07)

Thanks Tony and Brendanos 

this was the final for a 41 litre batch called it

*Anzac Aussie Ale*

4300.00 gm BB Pale Malt (3.9 EBC) Grain 44.8 % 
4300.00 gm Hoepfner Pilsner malt (3.9 EBC) Grain 44.8 % 
1000.00 gm Weyermann Carahell (25.6 EBC) Grain 10.4 % 
59.00 gm Northern Brewer [6.60%] (45 min) Hops 21.2 IBU 
65.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [3.30%] (15 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops - 
2 Pkgs Safale US Ale (DCL Yeast #US-56) 


I put 1kg of Carahell did not want another partly full bag it would never get used 

its Mashing now !!!

Pumpy


----------



## Hogan (25/4/07)

Tony said:


> Batch Size (L): 52.00 Wort Size (L): 52.00
> Total Grain (kg): 10.50
> Anticipated OG: 1.048 Plato: 11.86
> Anticipated EBC: 8.2
> ...




Tony - how did you come up with that BU:GU ratio. Is there a table for it?? I believed it is reached by dividing the bittering units by the gravity units but I don't get your result. Can you show your math please to put me on the right track.

Cheers, Hoges.


----------



## Stuster (25/4/07)

Hogan said:


> Tony - how did you come up with that BU:GU ratio. Is there a table for it?? I believed it is reached by dividing the bittering units by the gravity units but I don't get your result. Can you show your math please to put me on the right track.
> 
> Cheers, Hoges.



Hogan, I'm not Tony, but BU:GU ratio is exactly what you say, Bitterness Units (IBUs) divided by Gravity (Units). So in Pumpy's original recipe, this was 21:54 or in other words 0.38:1 just by division. In Tony's first recipe he has 28:54 which is 0.52. Make sense?

Bitters are typically around the 0.75-0.8 mark. APAs can be around that or a little higher. Aussie ales are usually fairly low. It's only an indication, because different hop schedules (like dry hopping) can give different amounts of perceived bitterness without adding IBUs, but it's often worth keeping in mind when doing a recipe.


----------



## Hogan (25/4/07)

Stuster said:


> Hogan, I'm not Tony, but BU:GU ratio is exactly what you say, Bitterness Units (IBUs) divided by Gravity (Units). So in Pumpy's original recipe, this was 21:54 or in other words 0.38:1 just by division. In Tony's first recipe he has 28:54 which is 0.52. Make sense?
> 
> Bitters are typically around the 0.75-0.8 mark. APAs can be around that or a little higher. Aussie ales are usually fairly low. It's only an indication, because different hop schedules (like dry hopping) can give different amounts of perceived bitterness without adding IBUs, but it's often worth keeping in mind when doing a recipe.




Thanks Stuster that clears it up nicely. I have not used that ratio before but mine seem to come out quite well ballanced using BeerSmith. I can now use the calc to make sure I am definately in the ball park.

Cheers, Hoges.


----------



## Tony (25/4/07)

thanks stuster.

I think of what BU-GU ratio i want in a beer before i make up the recipe.

say i am brewing an aussie ale like pumpys.

He is using a fair wack of carahell so that is going to contribute to maltiness in the final beer. If it was just a 100% base grain beer it would not be as malty.

so with the 2 different versions of the beer above, we will need slightly different levels of bitterness to ballance the malt to where you want it.

your tooheys news, VB,s ect are generally around 4.8% so lets assume they have a starting gravity of about 1.040 (its probably less but we will use this for an example). if they have a bitterness of around 20 IBU they will have a BU:GU ratio of 40/20

0.5

so for each unit of gravity we have 0.5 units of bitterness.

it is generally considered neutral in a beer, a lower bitterness will allow the malt to dominate and give a sweeter beer and higher bitterness will cut through the malt and the hops bitterness will become more pronounced.

Ok back on track.........

the aussie ale. 1 with 10% carahell and 1 without it at all.

to have these beers ballanced the same you will need more bitterness in the one with the carahell because you have increased its maltiness.

say if we brew the one without at a BU:GU of 0.5:1 we may need the one with carahell at 0.6:1 for the same perceved bitterness.

so 54 * 0.5 is 27 IBU
and 54 * 0.6 is 32.4 IBU

now you can adjust your hop amounts to acheive the bitterness result you want in the beer when you drink it.

most lagers will be around the 0.5:1 mark
german pilsners get up around 0.7:1
bohemien pils are about 0.85:1
english bitters at about 0.8:1
irish stout is usually 0.9:1
oktoberfest is a sweet malty beer and is usually low at 0.4:1
belgians tend to be down around the 0.3:1 to 0.4:1 mark

once you know how strong the beer will be and how bitter you want it just use this to calculate the bitterness.

easy.

cheers


----------



## goatherder (25/4/07)

Ray Daniels' book "Designing Great Beers" covers BU:GU in detail. It includes appropriate values for some common beer styles. Well worth a read if you are interested.


----------



## Hogan (25/4/07)

Tony said:


> thanks stuster.
> 
> most lagers will be around the 0.5:1 mark
> german pilsners get up around 0.7:1
> ...




Great answer thanks Tony. Very informative as usual.

Cheers, Hoges.


----------



## wobbly (25/4/07)

While off topic there is a good article on Beer Balance at this site (not sure how to post the "linky" thing so have typed the address)

www.beercolor.netfirms.com/balance.html

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## blackbock (25/4/07)

Brilliant post by Tony! 

Top work. I will have a sit down and analyse that later. 
Right now, it's time for a Schwarzbier..

:chug:


----------



## Tony (25/4/07)

by my promash pumpys recipe will give:

41 liters @ 1.055 @ 23.7 IBU

23.7/55 is 0.43:1

It will be a sweetis beer but better that the origional 0.38:1 with all that carahell. that would have been cloying.

let us know how it goes pumpy......... i recon it will be a nice drop

cheers


----------



## Pumpy (25/4/07)

Tony said:


> by my promash pumpys recipe will give:
> 
> 41 liters @ 1.055 @ 23.7 IBU
> 
> ...




Thanks Tony , that is a bloody useful formulae .Must get that book Designing great beers ,I know it is your bible .

I am hoping should be Ok the Northern brewers bittering hops were 8.5% AA and I had them in beersmith at 6.5 %AA so that may help a bit 

mashed at between 65-66C and intend using the US 56 yeast .

I can compare previous beers I have made and it seem similar 

Will report back how it tastes .

Thanks mate for the great information 

Pumpy


----------



## Tony (25/4/07)

ahhhh thought it was low for NB

that works out at 33.2/55

0.6:1

bloody perfect

save me a bottle mate 

cheers

Oh and a P.S.

designing great beers is a good book and a fnatastic source of info but i wouldnt call it a bible. its american and they use cascade in everything from pilsner to stout.......... its not that bad but i just dont like cascade so much. 

oooooooo thats like a fireman saying he sets fires in the forest on a firemans forum isnt it 

cheers again


----------

