# Rack To Secondary, Leave In Primary Or Bottle Condition



## milligan (2/12/08)

Just a snappy question. I have done a coopers mex cerveza with the BE2 and have had it in the fridge under 20o for the last 12 days. It did get as low as 10o but continued to ferment once I got the temp right (with the help of my new Fridgemate). 

Anyways I will be checking the hydrometer over the next fews day and if it is finished I am wondering how to proceed. I dont think I will rack to secondary but if I do what do you keep the temp at. Ambient room temp or fermentation temp. And for how long. If I decided to leave it in primary at what temp and for how long as above. and I suppose the same thing applies for the bottles. If I go straight to the bottle, do I condition in the fridge or at room temp.

I realise the answer are on here but the problem was the more I read the more options I had. I was hoping someone could assist given the type of brew and the way it was fermeneted. 

Cheers all.


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## brendo (2/12/08)

There are a bunch of ways you can go.

You can crash chill it in your fridge to drop more yeast out of the suspension for about a week - which will help clear your beer (I never bother except for my lagers). Up to you as to whether you do this in the primary fermentor or go to secondary - there is always the risk of infection oxidisation through an improper sanitation and racking technique. Like I said, I only bother for my lagers where they are going to sit to lager for about 6 weeks, so I want them off the yeast cake.

Otherwise, just make sure fermentation has finished (stable readings over three days) and then bottle.

Leave the bottles at fermentation temp for about 2 weeks to help them carb up and then just store as your circumstances allow.

Hope that helps - be prepared for a bunch of different answers.

Cheers,

brendo


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## buttersd70 (2/12/08)

If racking, leave at fermentation temp for 24 hours, then crash chill to cold. If leaving in primary, just crash chill. In either case, keep cold for 3-14 days. (with no finings, and for this coopers kit with kit yeast, I would leave it cold for 5 to 7 days - subject to ish. No hard and fast rules here).

When bottling, bring back up to ambient temp (if ambient is close-ish to fermentation temp, and not ridiculously high. I prefer 20-25C for the carbonation, but thats just me.), and maintain bottles at this for 14 days. After that, just keep at ambient. It would be best if ambient is under 25, but by this stage, all fermentation has finished (including the carbonation), so even if it gets hot, it's not a major deal. If you have the fridge space, putting enough bottles in so that it can have 7 days (or more) in the fridge before you crack it would be good, but isn't necessary.

This stage of the process is at the point of opinion and individual preferences rather than hard facts, so you'll probably get 20 different responses, none of which are wrong. This is just the way I do (or did) things.


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## Bribie G (2/12/08)

The only reason I rack to secondary is to get the beer off the yeast cake so that I can mix stuff with it. At that stage I also collect yeast samples for later brews. 

After racking I diacetyl-rest it at fermentation temperature for about 3 days, crash chill, add gelatine finings to drop most of the yeast, then after a couple of days I add Polyclar which reduces chill haze, then bring it up to ambient overnight and bottle the next day.

If I wasn't using gelatine or Polyclar I would just let it rest a wee bit longer in primary, seeing as with a light coloured beer you want to reduce the amount of crap in the bottle so you get a better chance of pouring off a good clear beer into your jug. Then bottle out of Primary. One less vulnerable stage, one less cleanup and heaps less faffing around.

Edit: recent example my Xmas 8% Coopers toucan stout is as black as the ace of spades and I simply bottled out of primary. Turned out fine without fining or clearing agents but I notice that the sediment is a bit feral. Doesn't bother me too much with this particular brew.


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## Fermented (2/12/08)

+1 for doing anything to clean this brew up otherwise it takes at least a month to become reasonable tasting.

There's a lot of suspended matter even after a couple of weeks of bottle fermentation and it tastes wretched. I only make it for the missus but try it now and again.

After a month it's an OK Mexibeer and reasonably clean looking and tasting.

Cheers - Fermented.


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## flattop (2/12/08)

I did a similar brew, added finings to the primary after about a week, bottled 5 days later.
2 weeks later it was crystal clear, easy to drink but with a slight homebrew tang, a couple more weeks in the bottle and the aftertaste subsided (is still there but less).
It may be worth racking to get rid of excess yeast which could be contributing to the aftertaste.


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## Fermented (2/12/08)

Ditto on that aftertaste... to me it tasted like aspirin but can't for the life of me figure out what caused it.

Solved it with a shot of lime juice. 

Cheers - Fermented.


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## milligan (2/12/08)

Thanks heaps everyone. I have taken the average of all the replies and will try the following:
I will crash chill for the next 5 to 7 days (I will look up crash chill but I am making a wild assumption of 0 degrees c???),
Bottle and carb at ambient (I need the fridge for the next brew ),
Store for at least 14 days at ambient,
Stick it in the fridge and chill for at least 7 days if time permits,
Enjoy and take heaps of notes.

Just another quickie: I read somewhere, maybe here, that we can mature much faster on the yeast cake. That is 1 week extra on the cake is like 2 - 4 weeks in the bottle. Any opinions???


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## Fermented (2/12/08)

With that amount of effort for that particular drop, it should turn out ace!

Love to hear the final review in this thread in a few weeks when you're done.

Cheers - Fermented.


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## flattop (2/12/08)

I am currently re-doing this brew with US-05 yeast and after sampling the SG reading yesterday it tastes a little more promising than the Coopers yeast....


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## buttersd70 (2/12/08)

milligan said:


> Just another quickie: I read somewhere, maybe here, that we can mature much faster on the yeast cake. That is 1 week extra on the cake is like 2 - 4 weeks in the bottle. Any opinions???



A source of some debate....some say that leaving it on the cake does more damage than good, others take the opposite view. My thought is, there is _ample _yeast in suspension for clean up.


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## flattop (2/12/08)

I wouldn't like to leave it more than 2 weeks on the primary cake, all the work is done, yeast has dropped, nothing left to do, just gut feeling.


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## milligan (4/12/08)

No worries. I will limit time in primary to two weeks, as long as fermentation has completed. 

I will post back here on the results (although I need some work on the whole palate thingy).

Cheers.


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## buttersd70 (4/12/08)

milligan said:


> although I need some work on the whole palate thingy



A excuse to drink more beer.


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## milligan (14/12/08)

Just a quick update/question:
I put the brew into the fridge 0n 2/12/08, and set the fridemate at 0. It was in there until today. However after about 1 week at this temp I turned the fridge off in anticipation of bottling. I got a little sidetracked and now another week later it is still in the fridge, which is still off. It has been pretty warm up this way but the temp of the brew has remained under 22. 

I will bottle in the next day or 2 but was looking for comments on what I could expect from such a predicament.

Cheers.


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## milligan (14/1/09)

Not that it really matter but I thought I would update here with the results of this brew.

It has been in the bottle for 46 days. I have had a few of them and am reasonably happy. It is clear, has a good head and good head retention. The bubbles may be a little on the big side (not that I know what this means) and there is plenty of them. Not bitter, maybe a little sweet. And much less home brew tang than my first try. I am currently drinking one warm (as I am trying to cut back by only putting 1 in the fridge at a time) and I believe it tastes better than a chilled one. 

Could this be because some other flavours are activated at the higher temp that cover up the "homebrew" taste?


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## troopa (14/1/09)

strange things happen when you homebrew.. you get to a point where you enjoy beer for the time and effort gone into making it and not just drink it cause its there 

ive found almost all my brews taste better at about 10-15 degrees or almost room temperature for some 
go figure ..


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## Fermented (14/1/09)

If anything, at a warmer temperature, the worst tastes become very apparent.

I was playing drinking games with my brother in law and his mates in China at the heat of the summer. We finished a cold slab and all that was left was warm. We tried to continue playing, but after one round we all quit and called it a night - warm beer is 'orrid (Anchor from Hainan).

Cheers - Fermented.


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## milligan (14/1/09)

Im not a fan of VB, etc, at room temp. I may be slightly biased as Troopa says.


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## buttersd70 (14/1/09)

milligan said:


> Could this be because some other flavours are activated at the higher temp that cover up the "homebrew" taste?



Being warmer opens up a lot more flavour, both the good and the bad. English beer has a reputation amongst ignorant heathens the less informed, as being warm and 'orrible. But in reality, it is actually between 9 and 11C. Other styles are served warmer, or colder. It depends on the beer. A decent "average" temperature would be at about 6C for ales, 4C for lagers. Most mega brewed (particularly light bodied lagers, and this applies to corona and its ilk) is best at close to 0, this is to hide the bad flavours. A good beer, that is well made, and well balanced, should hold up well at 2C _or _12C, or even warmer.....but the perfect temp is likely to be somewhere in between.  

If your kit beer tastes good warm, that is a very good indication indeed. If it tastes better warm than cold, then your idea of cold is _too _cold. When I was doing kits, I aimed for 6C....when I moved to extracts, I moved to 8C....now on AG, and I go 9C for malty ales, 12C for dry ales, 15C for heavy ales (darks and stouts), and 4-6C for lagers....but if the beer is good, as I said, it should hold up as still OK at pretty much any temp.


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## boingk (14/1/09)

Some styles benefit from warmer serving temperatures. Some styles don't...eg the majority of Australian commercial beer. But a nice, big, dark stout? Serve that at 12'C or more and you're set. 

Cheers - boingk

PS: Anyone heard of the sunlight-skunk phenomenon applied to beer left in the sun whilst drinking?


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## Fermented (14/1/09)

boingk said:


> PS: Anyone heard of the sunlight-skunk phenomenon applied to beer left in the sun whilst drinking?


Did it on the balcony having a pork pie for lunch about a week ago... phone rang... back half an hour later and the beer was really not pleasant... kinda like licking a cat's backside, I imagine.

Cheers - Fermented.


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## buttersd70 (14/1/09)

boingk said:


> PS: Anyone heard of the sunlight-skunk phenomenon applied to beer left in the sun whilst drinking?



Tanner gets you a tenner. First time had someone over for a brew day, so was dirinking pints instead of halves, and brewing outside......beer was still at a reasonable temp, but skunked to hell. Direct sunlight (on a 30C cloudless day) on the glass for about 10min was al it took.One of those days where it wasn't overly hot, but you could really _feel _the sun, if you know what I mean?


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## boingk (14/1/09)

Sounds like today here, butters. And the day before when I went down to the river for a swim. On a related note, steer clear of Banta 'invisible' waterproof sunscreen hahaha. 

Wait a sec, brewing outside? Don't reckon the UV would've harmed the brew do you? Paranoid, but still...

Cheers - boingk


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## milligan (14/1/09)

Fermented said:


> ... kinda like licking a cat's backside, I imagine.


I'm glad you ended that one with "imagine"


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## axertes (24/1/09)

buttersd70 said:


> When bottling, bring back up to ambient temp (if ambient is close-ish to fermentation temp, and not ridiculously high. I prefer 20-25C for the carbonation, but thats just me.)


<hijack>Why? I ask because when I chilled my last brew I bulk primed and bottled it at the cooled temp, which I'm guessing was a not-so-cool 8 degrees.</hijack>


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## buttersd70 (24/1/09)

axertes said:


> <hijack>Why? I ask because when I chilled my last brew I bulk primed and bottled it at the cooled temp, which I'm guessing was a not-so-cool 8 degrees.</hijack>



Once the brew is primed and in the bottle, the yeast needs to ferment out the priming sugar in order for it to carbonate. Some yeasts will do that at 8C, but it will take quite some time. Some yeasts will just flocculate out into the bottom of the bottle at this temperature, leaving you with flat beer.
So you ferment, chill, prime and bottle, then raise back to fermentation temperature for the yeast to work. After 2 weeks or so (maybe less, depending on how much fermentable sugar the yeast needs to work through to carbonate), you then do one of three things...continue to store at cool-ish ambient, store at cellar temp (8-12C), or store cold.

edit: I was referring to the bottles themselves being at fermentation temperature whilst the yeast works. You don't need to raise it back up _before _it goes into the bottle, if the prime was calculated taking the maximum fermentation temp into consideration (like you did, from memory). I usually pull straight out of cold conditioning, prime it, bottle it, then just let the bottles warm up to 20. Leave it at that for 10-14days, then put in a cool spot in the house.


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