# New 3V HERMS or Braumeister setup feasibility ...



## Grainer (2/4/13)

Hello All,

Now I have been costing 2 setups..and I turn to the beer gods out there for advice ...

1. Braumeister 

Braumeister 20L $2500 


Silicone Hose - Heavy Duty (ID 12.7mm)

SILHOSEMM

15.95

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=812

Silicone Hose - Heavy Duty (ID 12.7mm)

SILHOSEMM

15.95

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=812


ChillOut MKIII - 30 Plate



129.95

http://www.mashmaster.com.au/p/1141466/chillout-mkiii---30-plate.html

Total Cost= Approx $2700

OR ....

2. HERMS 3V System - Although I am sure I have missed some things out...



*3V Set up*





*Description*

*Code*

*Price *

*HLT*





Stainless Steel Pot

KETTLE100L

229

Tri-Clover sanitary 3 piece ball valves

BALVAL1/2SS3PS

49

Chiller Stainless Steel Coil 50' x 3/8"



179

Sight Gauge Adaptor Stainless Steel

BEQSIGAUAS

15

Sight Gauge Adaptor Stainless Steel

BEQSIGAUAS

15

Sight Gauge 16inch

BEQSIGAU16

39

Bi-Metal Thermometer Weldless (3" Dial - Long Stem)

THERMWELDBIM3INCH

42.9

Silicone Hose - Heavy Duty (ID 12.7mm)

SILHOSEMM

15.95

Silicone Hose - Heavy Duty (ID 12.7mm)

SILHOSEMM

15.95

Silicone Hose - Heavy Duty (ID 12.7mm)

SILHOSEMM

15.95

BALVAL1/2SS3P

BALVAL1/2SS3P

21.95

BALVAL1/2SS3P

BALVAL1/2SS3P

21.95

Burner - Mongolian 32 jet LPG 



110

Kit for mongolian burner





*Mash*





Stainless Steel Pot

KETTLE100L

229

Hop Grain Blocker

MESHTUBE

24.95

Tri-Clover sanitary 3 piece ball valves

BALVAL1/2SS3PS

49

Sight Gauge Adaptor Stainless Steel

BEQSIGAUAS

15

Sight Gauge Adaptor Stainless Steel

BEQSIGAUAS

15

Sight Gauge 16inch

BEQSIGAU16

39

Bi-Metal Thermometer Weldless (3" Dial - Long Stem)

THERMWELDBIM3INCH

42.9

Silicone Hose - Heavy Duty (ID 12.7mm)

SILHOSEMM

15.95

Silicone Hose - Heavy Duty (ID 12.7mm)

SILHOSEMM

15.95

*Kettle*





Hop Sock

HOPSOCKSEF250ML

19.95

Tri-Clover sanitary 3 piece ball valves

BALVAL1/2SS3PS

49

Sight Gauge Adaptor Stainless Steel

BEQSIGAUAS

15

Sight Gauge Adaptor Stainless Steel

BEQSIGAUAS

15

Sight Gauge 16inch

BEQSIGAU16

39

Bi-Metal Thermometer Weldless (3" Dial - Long Stem)

THERMWELDBIM3INCH

42.9

Silicone Hose - Heavy Duty (ID 12.7mm)

SILHOSEMM

15.95

Silicone Hose - Heavy Duty (ID 12.7mm)

SILHOSEMM

15.95

Burner - Mongolian 32 jet LPG 





Kit for mongolian burner





Stainless Steel Pot

KETTLE100L

229

*Accessories*





Stainless Steel Pot

KETTLE100L

229

MARCHPUMP

MARCHPUMP

269

MARCHPUMP

MARCHPUMP

269

ChillOut MKIII - 30 Plate



129.95

Delivery from Craft Brewer



140







Total



2696.1

Total Cost of build Approx $2700 plus plumbing I missed, $300 Plus build of table (own my own mig welder) in steel

Build cost Approx $3300???? Maybe I can find some items cheaper... ? but these are ball part figures ..

So now I turn to the beer gods and ask .. what should I do ??? Braumeister or 3V ..... 

I hate making these decisions.... Plus I would need to turn to someone to help with the build if I went down that direction ..

Thanks

Grainer


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## WarmBeer (2/4/13)

Or, for 30 bucks...


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## Online Brewing Supplies (2/4/13)

Shop around for better prices would be my recommendation.
Hint Hint
Nev


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## Grainer (2/4/13)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Shop around for better prices would be my recommendation.
> Hint Hint
> Nev


What could you do on it? PM me.


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## sillyboybrybry (2/4/13)

I don't think you can get a better price for the braumeister.


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## Crusty (2/4/13)

If you are starting off with around $3000.00, I would seriously consider Biab.
Exposed element Crown Urn - $250.00
Bag - $25.00
Mash paddle - $10.00
Roasting rack - $16.00
Pulley system - $30.00
Digital thermometer - $20.00
Hop / Grain bag - $6.00
No chill cube - $17.00
Total - $374.00, from $3000.00 = $2626.00 left over.

$2626.00 will get you a freakin awesome keg setup, all the gear you need to do yeast starters if you wish & a shit load of ingredients to make beer.


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## DU99 (2/4/13)

Have you tried core brewing concepts there out in the dandy area of melbourne


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## Cocko (2/4/13)

What size batches do you wanna make?

Seems your BM is 20L or single batch and your 3v is 100L being triple batch? [Maybe even squeeze a quad]

Seriously, it is not a reasonable comparison, due to you not comparing - use, volume, room you have etc....



BTW: 3v FTW


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## Yob (2/4/13)

Total cost of my 3V must be under $350 inclusive of elements and pumps.. No question I love being both out of the kitchen and having the ability to step mash easily... 

Build a rig to suit you, if something goes wrong you know how to fix it.. BM? = Bollox Monster (for me)


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## tavas (2/4/13)

What do you brew on now?


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## Grainer (2/4/13)

tavas said:


> What do you brew on now?


 kits.. hence the upgrade LOL

Looking at double batches...


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## Bada Bing Brewery (3/4/13)

Was contemplating the same thing 8 months ago. Was just about to pull the trigger on a Braumeister when Nev saved me .....
Hermit - 3V - fraction of the cost and all the benefits of a BM (computerised step mashing)
Can build it as flash or as cheap as you want. I've got a 70L ss pot for boiling, used my old ali 50L biab pot for HLT, and a plastic fermenter for mash tun.
Cheers
BBB

Ps. No affiliation with Nev, except he is my father ....


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## goodgodilovebeer (3/4/13)

Braumeister gets my vote.

It's so easy to use, and as a huge plus, cleaning everything I used to brew took about 20 minutes.
I started to build a 3 vessel system and called it quits the second I found the YouTube videos of the BM.
$2600 CAD is what mine cost and it's the best money I've ever spent.


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## Tex083 (3/4/13)

I would look at your set up and consider if you NEED all that.
I have a 3V HERMS set up using a Gryphon SS coil and love it. I use a Keggle boiler and a Big W SS pot as a HLT.
You said you wanted to go AG and do double batches and the 20L BM cant do that, you need the 50L and 15A power. I like to play with my setup and change things as needed as someone else said if the BM fails its going to cost a small fortune to fix.

PID controled HERMS is just as good!


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## Dan Pratt (3/4/13)

put it simply - if you like to build stuff then make a 3V as it would be a great adventure....... but if you'd like to start brewiing right away, get a BM. its ready to go, but beware it has its limitations like every system does. 

you will need a 50L for double batches as mentioned above.


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## Bada Bing Brewery (3/4/13)

:icon_offtopic: Daddy - can we talk about the Porsche now?
BBB


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## lmccrone (5/4/13)

Not sure if its legal but I got some old kegs from the transfer station, gave the bloke there $20 for three of them. That should save you a few bob if your going to go with a 3v system.

Also home made beer from your own home made brewey, sounds like the way to go to me.

Cheers

Luke


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## lukec (5/4/13)

Build your own BM clone, between $500 - $1000 depending on how fancy you want to go with pump and controller.

Luke


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## Grainer (6/4/13)

lmccrone said:


> Not sure if its legal but I got some old kegs from the transfer station, gave the bloke there $20 for three of them. That should save you a few bob if your going to go with a 3v system.
> 
> Also home made beer from your own home made brewey, sounds like the way to go to me.
> 
> ...


I contacted CUB and yes it is illegal.. they said they would prosecute anyone caught selling them but not bother about people that have modified kegs cause they are useless to them...and too much trouble to follow up...


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## doon (6/4/13)

So basically you can steal kegs cut top out and your in the clear sweet!


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## MaltyHops (6/4/13)

Grainer said:


> ... and ask .. what should I do ??? Braumeister or 3V .....
> 
> I hate making these decisions.... Plus I would need to turn to someone to help with the build if I went down that direction ..
> 
> ...


One way to look at this is to ask yourself what kind of brewer you are
(or think you are) in terms of how hands-on do you want to be when
brewing.

If you like to be involved in every stage of the whole brewing process
(and this will be for every brew you make so ti can wear a bit thin after
a while), then 3V (or non-BM) would be the way to go.

OTOH, if you like things to run themselves and a much lower amount
of things you have to do each time, then the BM is the go.

This is true whether you buy off the shelf (like the BM, or even a 3V)
or if you can tinker and build it yourself (including building a BM style
design like those already done on this forum) then you can fix things
if they go wrong.


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## Grainer (6/4/13)

So I have decided to build a 3V.. looks like fun  .. just got to see if any of those cut up CUB kegs are laying around ... if not get new pots


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## bum (6/4/13)

MaltyHops said:


> f you like to be involved in every stage of the whole brewing process
> 
> (and this will be for every brew you make so ti can wear a bit thin after
> a while), then 3V (or non-BM) would be the way to go.
> ...


I dunno. Is
brewing wi
th a BM re
ally any les
s "hands-o
n" than wit
h a 3v syst
em? Only d
ifference is
not having
to bang so
me hot wat
er in if you
want to ste
p mash, ye
ah?


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## manticle (6/4/13)

Re
ad
h
is
post
mu
ch easier
than you
rs bum


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## bum (6/4/13)

N
o
t

a
s

f
u
n
n
y
,

b
u
t
.


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## manticle (6/4/13)

ar
s






...........................................e


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## MaltyHops (7/4/13)

bum said:


> I dunno. Is
> brewing wi
> th a BM re
> ally any les
> ...


Yes, I think so. I had the pleasure of having a rye golden ale brewed
on Malted's BM last Dec and while there are obviously some manual
handling (all done by Malted) we were able to sit back, sip on red wine,
have some nibbles
and chat while the
BM happily carried
on with its dialed in
program.


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## Edak (7/4/13)

lukec said:


> Build your own BM clone, between $500 - $1000 depending on how fancy you want to go with pump and controller.
> 
> Luke


+1 that way you get to go through the heart ache odd sourcing bits, building it and still get a braumeister type system.


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## bum (7/4/13)

MaltyHops said:


> Yes, I think so. I had the pleasure of having a rye golden ale brewed
> on Malted's BM last Dec and while there are obviously some manual
> handling (all done by Malted) we were able to sit back, sip on red wine,
> have some nibbles
> ...


Excluding the red wine and Malted's exalted company, this sounds a lot like my brewdays. Really only get in to a rush if I work out I've used wrong ingredient amounts or something and need to recalculate my hop additions in a hurry - which is something that doesn't happen much and a BM wouldn't protect me from. I really don't see it as being much of an effort saver. One less vessel to clean, I guess. Probably harder to clean than any of mine though.


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## lael (19/5/13)

I've just finished building my BM clone and it has been pretty rewarding. It's nice to clean. Not sure what the difference is between 3v. For mine - fill with water, put at 60C, throw in some sod perc, recirculate, rinse. Tip malt pipe into a bag, rinse it out. It's pretty easy. The biggest advantage is being able to leave it to do it's thing during mashing / boiling. How different that is to any other system.... idk.


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## Yob (19/5/13)

photos


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## lael (19/5/13)

of my system?


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## TidalPete (19/5/13)

Bada Bing Brewery said:


> :icon_offtopic: Daddy - can we talk about the Porsche now?
> BBB


Would never contemplate spending $2500 when another $1000 could get me a 50-litre Braumeister with all the extra benefits.
Having said that I must admit to have probably spent well over $2000 on my HERMS (So far & slowly but surely over a long time).
I would like to think that any sort of all-grain brewing setup is more enjoyable & satisfying than a set-and-forget system but each to his own. :beer:
Never tired of showing off my rig. :lol:


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## sillyboybrybry (19/5/13)

Braumeister is not quite a set and forget. Until it removes the malt pipe, self sparges, puts its lid on then removes it when it reaches boil and puts its own hops in it will still be something that needs attention during the brew.


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## Kranky (19/5/13)

A Braumeister will make good beer straight off the shelf and you can get great consistency out of it. The wort is very clear and it's set and forget programming make the brewing process pretty easy. If you just want to drink AG beer with as little effort as possible it's the way to go.

If you want to learn all about the brewing process and don't mind putting in a full days labor to make your beer then a 3v system is it. Your brew days will be longer than with a Braumeister and you will have to pay a lot more attention as to what is going on. It will take some time to learn how to brew and get familiar with your equipment and many things will go wrong. You will make more bad beers than you would with a Braumeister but when you get on top of it you will have learnt a lot.

The added advantage of a 3v system is that you can do high gravity beers (the Braumeister isn't really cut out for although there are some ways to do it). 

If you're going to go with a 3v system and you've got a decent budget I'd recommend the Blichmann mash tun with a their false bottom, they are ******* superb. The 20 gallon is good for double batches. You can save money on the HLT and the BK shopping around.


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## Yob (19/5/13)

lael said:


> of my system?


Indeed.. while Im a dedicated HERMS man, I always like to see other peoples single vessel creations..

I think it's well documented that Id rather build than buy so these things are of natural interest to me. Big Nath's single vessel build was pretty schmick.


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## Yob (19/5/13)

Kranky said:


> You will make more bad beers than you would with a Braumeister but when you get on top of it you will have learnt a lot.
> 
> The added advantage of a 3v system is that you can do high gravity beers (the Braumeister isn't really cut out for although there are some ways to do it).


bollox.. utter bollox

I _can_ agree with some of your points.


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## tanukibrewer (19/5/13)

I have built up a 3V system,looking to go to a HERMs system soon,would like to be able to afford 15K for a big 200L Braumeister system if I won lotto.But really what I want is to be able to do 80L batches with increased clarity of the wort,step temp mashes and reduce the brew time and I think/hope a HERMS system will do that for me more cheaply.
Also if my system breaks on brew day no biggy I know how to unbreak it.
I cant weld to save my life and electrical diagrams make my eyes swim but can cut and grind so the 3V system was easy to put together.However Im still brewing off the back of my trailer till I build a stand,get weird looks from people walking by.



saw these on gumtree(not connected in any way),not sure what they are like,might be good if you only want to do small brews
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/chirnside-park/other-home-garden/bielmeier-beer-brewing-kit-bhg-400-made-in-germany-/1019861198


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## Kranky (19/5/13)

Yob said:


> bollox.. utter bollox
> 
> I _can_ agree with some of your points.


I made plenty of mistakes learning how to use my 3v system and made some shitty beers because of those mistakes. I'm guessing you didn't, half your luck.


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## Yob (19/5/13)

will admit that throwing PBW into the mash wasnt my greatest moment... but it wouldnt have mattered what sort of system it was on :lol:


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## TidalPete (19/5/13)

TidalPete said:


> Would never contemplate spending $2500 when another $1000 could get me a 50-litre Braumeister with all the extra benefits.
> Having said that I must admit to have probably spent well over $2000 on my HERMS (So far & slowly but surely over a long time).
> I would like to think that any sort of all-grain brewing setup is more enjoyable & satisfying than a set-and-forget system but each to his own. :beer:
> Never tired of showing off my rig. :lol:


The pic of my rig seems to have done a runner so posting once again.
Each to his own. :beer:


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## sillyboybrybry (19/5/13)

Yob said:


> will admit that throwing PBW into the mash wasnt my greatest moment... but it wouldnt have mattered what sort of system it was on :lol:


would have made a good clean tasting beer yob.....


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## bum (19/5/13)

That's a damned schmick looking rig, TP.


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## thebigwilk (19/5/13)

My advise is to go a simple single vessel easy for cleaning storing and less coin to out lay ,I built this unit for around $650 and had a bit of fun designing it.It works great and very small and easy unit to handle. Cheers heres some pics


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## Yob (19/5/13)

Very tidy indeed, so compact. Whats the insulation you have on those vessels TP?


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## TidalPete (19/5/13)

Thanks bum & Yob. 
Insulation is just Clark Rubber aluminium-backed foam rubber. Difference in the colour is my fault. Did the MT first (Whilst having a 30-litre urn as HLT) & put the ally backing on the front for bling purposes. Big mistake because the tight circumference caused the aluminium to split & peel so had to peel it all off. 
Ally on the back is good!
Still need reverse-osmosis to finalise my salt additions + SS HEX coil to make everything stainless..

Please note that this rig was designed to fit into one of those micro lawn lockers in those sad retirement villages which should never happen to any poor sod. Fingers crossed. :lol:
Got a lot of living to do yet at my young age!
Whoo hoo!


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## tanukibrewer (19/5/13)

Like the rig and the signs bigwilk


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## thebigwilk (20/5/13)

Yeah gets me in the mood every time.


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## Bribie G (20/5/13)

bum said:


> That's a damned schmick looking rig, TP.


Pete had a full career building Brisbane's and Perth's electric trains, his rig was but a trivial whim.


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## Grainer (20/5/13)

Bit of an update...

I am talking to Nev at Gryphon.. Thanks Nev, I have an electrician helping with the wiring of the control box (friend) and I have a mate that can get all electrical equipment at cost or less for me... so things are starting to come together.

I will keep everyone posted


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## lael (20/5/13)

Hey Yob & all - http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/72377-laels-braumiser-build/
is my build


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