# Don Burke's New Brewery



## donburke (18/2/11)

I am well into the construction of my 3 vessel brewery, its my first 3 vessel brewery

I have been brewing full boil volume 20 odd litre BIAB batches over the last 12 months with good results

I decided to build a 3 vessel system so I can brew larger batches, perhaps less often, but it seems the right thing to do

I have a brewstand being welded, which I hope will be ready next week

Its made of 50mm stainless square tubing, and has an adjustable height subframe housing 3 x 23 jet mongolian burners

Driving the brewery is a march pump fitted with elbow joints, camlock fittings and 2 lengths of silicone hose

I have 3 robinox 98 litre stainless pots with sockets being welded in them for the following configuration

HLT
- stainless pickup tube into compression fitting to ball valve with camlock

MLT
- domed false bottom into barb into plastic hose into barb to ball valve with camlock
- recirculating entry 2/3 up the pot with stainless pickup tube into compression fitting to ball valve with camlock

KETTLE
- all stainless hopscreen into compression fitting to ball valve with camlock
- whirlpool entry 2/3 up the pot with stainless whirlpool tube into compression fitting to ball valve with camlock
- 24 metres of 12mm stainless tubing wound into a coil permanently fixed in the kettle with compression fittings to ball valves (in and out) with camlocks


The 24 metre coil in my kettle will serve as a herms coil during the mash and then a cooling coil at the end of the boil;

As a herms coil, I plan to;
- mash in as normal in mash tun
- fill kettle with water and heat to desired mashout/step temp
- when ready to step / mashout simply recirculate the mash liquor through the coil, reheating water to compensate the cooling effect
- when done, pump the hot water in the kettle into the hlt where it will be ready for sparging at the right temperature

To use as cooling coil simply flow cold water through the coil at the end of the boil whilst whirlpooling

I will update with pictures as the build progresses and also my results

Here are some pics of the fittings I received from beerbelly today, i'm getting excited now ...


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## Cocko (18/2/11)

It seems you are well versed in the dark art of shameless bragging..

Well, so you should be - sounds awesome mate, PLEASE keep us posted as it comes together!

Cheers


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## donburke (18/2/11)

Cocko said:


> It seems you are well versed in the dark art of shameless bragging..
> 
> Well, so you should be - sounds awesome mate, PLEASE keep us posted as it comes together!
> 
> Cheers



i might look like a dick if the cooling/herms coil dont work as intended, then i'll be an example of what not to do

plus my wife does not share the excitement i have, and i have to share my joy with someone .... :icon_cheers:


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## Cocko (18/2/11)

donburke said:


> my wife does not share the excitement i have, and i have to share my joy with someone .... :icon_cheers:




Hence our membership here mate! Amen!

HA.

SHARE, POST, ETC!

pics are best.... keep 'em comin.


:icon_cheers:


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## schooey (18/2/11)

3 x 98L robinox? 

Dude.... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Post some pics of your updates!


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## Greg Lawrence (18/2/11)

schooey said:


> 3 x 98L robinox?
> 
> Dude.... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$



Plus all the bling in the photos. That shit dont come cheap.
Looks like about $700 -800 there.


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## unrealeous (18/2/11)

Gregor said:


> Plus all the bling in the photos. That shit dont come cheap.
> Looks like about $700 -800 there.


Home brewing - an expensive way to make cheap beer.

Looks awesome - it will be worth every cent. Looking forward to seeing more photos.


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## WarmBeer (18/2/11)

Gregor said:


> Plus all the bling in the photos. That shit dont come cheap.
> Looks like about $700 -800 there.


Looking at his username, he may or may not have had a long-running gardening show on the telly.

If that is the case, I'm sure money's not an issue.

Plus, how awesome would it be to have another well know Aussie personality homebrewing. Just adds credibility to our craft.


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## DanRayner (18/2/11)

Looks/sounds fantastic Don!

One thing though, are you planning to use hop flowers or pellets? The hop screen you have there from beerbelly is really good at screening out flowers but does very little to hold back the finer hop stuff from pellets - you may be better off just having the pick-up and turning it out toward the wall of the kettle for when you brew with pellets.

Otherwise love ya work - bring on more pics!

EDIT: I gather the "other" Don Burke lives in Kenthurst - but I could be wrong, I'm not much of a paparazzo


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## MeLoveBeer (18/2/11)

WarmBeer said:


> Looking at his username, he may or may not have had a long-running gardening show on the telly.



I've got to be honest, I thought this thread was about that Don Burke the gardening personality starting a micro (was thinking, gees that guy wouild have the freshest hops in his brews).

your build looks the goods mate...


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## schooey (18/2/11)

DanRayner said:


> EDIT: I gather the "other" Don Burke lives in Kenthurst - but I could be wrong, I'm not much of a paparazzo



He used to.. Sagars Road, had a mate that lived just up the street from him back in the 90s. Not sure if he is still there though...


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## hsb (18/2/11)

Thanks for sharing, exciting times! Love to see some pics of your stand when it's complete and the rig taking shape. 
My BB hop screen is great with flowers or plugs and with pellets, my whirlpool seems to get the majority out, as I use them in concert with hops/plugs.


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## donburke (18/2/11)

unrealeous said:


> Home brewing - an expensive way to make cheap beer.



i have justified it to myself this way ...

i brew beer for my father's house, my father-in-law's house and my house, collectively the 3 households consume on average a total of 3 cases a week

3 cases / week @ $50/case = $7,500 per annum for about 1,200 litres

the grain, hops, yeast, water, gas and electricty to make our beer cost between $1 and $2 a litre

thats a total of no more than $2,400 per annum + our time (we dont count our time coz its a hobby right !)

considering 12 months of beer, instead of spending $7,500, we spend $2,400, that leaves $5,100 to spend on gear, which i hope will last longer than 12 months

i am actually saving money from this hobby after about 9 months, and whilst i could have saved more, its still a saving, every other hobby i've had cost me money !!!


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## raven19 (18/2/11)

Good luck with the build Don.

+1 to more piccies!


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## donburke (18/2/11)

WarmBeer said:


> Looking at his username, he may or may not have had a long-running gardening show on the telly.
> 
> If that is the case, I'm sure money's not an issue.
> 
> Plus, how awesome would it be to have another well know Aussie personality homebrewing. Just adds credibility to our craft.



sorry, i am not the don burke from the telly, 

i have had a keen interest in gardening for many years and my friends gave me the nick name


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## donburke (18/2/11)

DanRayner said:


> Looks/sounds fantastic Don!
> 
> One thing though, are you planning to use hop flowers or pellets? The hop screen you have there from beerbelly is really good at screening out flowers but does very little to hold back the finer hop stuff from pellets - you may be better off just having the pick-up and turning it out toward the wall of the kettle for when you brew with pellets.




i have used only pellets up to now, and might start using flowers from now on,

do you whirlpool ? does the whirlpool push the hop debris into a cone along with the cold break ?

if i have too much debris coming through i might raise it a little and sacrifice a couple of litres


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## DanRayner (18/2/11)

donburke said:


> i have used only pellets up to now, and might start using flowers from now on,
> 
> do you whirlpool ? does the whirlpool push the hop debris into a cone along with the cold break ?
> 
> if i have too much debris coming through i might raise it a little and sacrifice a couple of litres



Excellent idea - a couple of litres is not enough to worry about. But you're using a coil chiller? Which means a little hop debris is not going to create the same problem that it would for a plate chiller

I whirlpool in a 70L robinox and it works just fine. Whirlpooling in your 98L pot will be a doddle


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## donburke (18/2/11)

MeLoveBeer said:


> I've got to be honest, I thought this thread was about that Don Burke the gardening personality starting a micro (was thinking, gees that guy wouild have the freshest hops in his brews).
> 
> your build looks the goods mate...




given my yield of 1st year chinook this year was 88grams wet, i dont think i'll have the opportunity to find out

thanks


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## donburke (18/2/11)

hsb said:


> Thanks for sharing, exciting times! Love to see some pics of your stand when it's complete and the rig taking shape.
> My BB hop screen is great with flowers or plugs and with pellets, my whirlpool seems to get the majority out, as I use them in concert with hops/plugs.



do you have the hopscreen touching the bottom of the kettle ?


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## DU99 (7/3/11)

Least if it all fails you can grow plants in it..all the best with your venture


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## donburke (7/3/11)

DU99 said:


> Least if it all fails you can grow plants in it..all the best with your venture




lol, 

the socket holes would make for a perfect strawberry pot


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## gone_fishing_ (7/3/11)

Protect your fellow brewers....name him and his business.
gf


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## WarmBeer (7/3/11)

I certainly couldn't condone you take all necessary steps to Cover Your Arse (tm) from libel or defamation in a public forum.

And I certainly wouldn't suggest you post this information anonymously in this thread from a new, throwaway account.

And it would be completely paranoid of me, not to mention negligent, if I mentioned the use of open wi-fi access points in cafe's nowadays.


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## fergi (7/3/11)

yes name the *rick, have you a receipt, i doubt it, he obviously does this quite often, ring him up and tell him you have been to the police and they recomended you give him 2 weeks to make things right otherwise the police will be around to question him and you will be laying charges,i hate hearing these stories of these *ock heads, especially when they rip us homebrewers off, dont give in go for him,you know where he lives , put a rock through his window :icon_chickcheers: .
fergi


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## DU99 (7/3/11)

tell you mates who it was..they wont visit him either..


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## jpr (7/3/11)

name and shame i say


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## Spoonta (7/3/11)

yep name the bastered


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## fergi (7/3/11)

WarmBeer said:


> I certainly couldn't condone you take all necessary steps to Cover Your Arse (tm) from libel or defamation in a public forum.
> 
> And I certainly wouldn't suggest you post this information anonymously in this thread from a new, throwaway account.
> 
> ...


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (7/3/11)

jpr said:


> name and shame i say






Spoonta said:


> yep name the bastered




Hey Don, Sorry to hear about your troubles...... I hate it when someone screws around with the "little people / small guy"! My old boss used to do it all the time (not like what has happened to you), and shitted me to tears.... So when i resigned i reported him to the ATO and Workplace health and safety (jokes on him now :icon_cheers: )

I definetly say "Name and Shame"! Dont let other Homebrewers/Hobbyists make the same mistake you have.

Cheers :icon_cheers: 

_wallace_


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## dimiphoto (8/3/11)

Why did you have to go and spoil the Don fantasy by telling us your not 'the don''. Your setup is pretty impressive mate, the cash outlay seems a tad full on but im sure it will last forever. So your in the shits with the two Ronnies too?

Burp !


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## Bizier (8/3/11)

Take to him with a pair of Felco 2's. In fact, you can use mine, they haven't been sharpened in a while, and might have some surface rust.

ED: I agree with the above, you had the best handle going, I say retract your denial and leave it all mysterious again.


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## mckenry (8/3/11)

donburke said:


> i trusted that he was referred by my local LHBS that i have been a good customer of for the last 2 years



Who is your local HB shop if youre in Leichhardt?



donburke said:


> is it appropriate to name the crook here, to avoid any fellow forum members having the same problem i had ?



Absolutely. Never be afraid to speak the truth.


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## pimpsqueak (8/3/11)

Name and shame dude. I'm just down the road from Leichardt and I don't want to be duped by this a$$wipe too.


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## fcmcg (8/3/11)

Name and shame...and maybe we can all ring up and order some stuff made...and then cancel the order h34r:


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## Crusty (8/3/11)

Name & shame the asshole.
Judging by your story, I'm pretty certain he wouldn't take any action against you for making us all aware of his professionalism.
I'd say he'd be digging a hole for himself if he went down the legal route & opening up a can o worms on himself that he'd probably rather avoid.
I get shat on all the time & I'm god damn sick of it. Everyone seems to be an asshole these days until proving themselves otherwise, it used to be the other way round.
I will never, ever get anything done after I've paid for it, it just opens the door for these slackers to do your job at their leisure & make every excuse under the sun as to why you haven't got what you have paid for. Competition for business is cut throat these days so shop around & tell them exactly what you want & give them a $100.00 deposit. If that's not what they want, adios buddy & find someone else. 

Hope it works out for ya mate. :beerbang:


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## Sprungmonkey (8/3/11)

+1 name and shame - Im just about to buy all grain equipment and only have enough cash if it all runs smoothly - If this happened to me my all grain brewing would be delayed as is yours. This service is appaling - I would actually report to ACCC.


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## XavierZ (8/3/11)

You're between a rock and a hard place now unfortunately, Don.
The brewers want you to decide the lesser of two evils? 

A wrap on the knuckles from Admin for a violation of terms and conditions?
...or a bad conscience if someone else gets bitten by the same person(s)/situation?

Regardless, I hope the family friend fixes up your gear good and proper first time around.
Keep that chin up high mate! :icon_cheers:


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## DU99 (8/3/11)

to fix LHBS..complain to health department you found wevils in grain or rat dropings on the shelves..Then there's ACCC ..


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## donburke (8/3/11)

I have deleted my post,

I will re-post my experience with this tradesman, and keep it factual, to allow fellow members to draw their own conclusions

I will seek approval from admin to post the name of the tradesman, so as to not violate terms and conditions

My lawyer friend told me this would be a better way of informing my fellow brewers of my experience with this tradesman

I'll keep you updated

Thanks


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## mckenry (9/3/11)

donburke said:


> I have deleted my post,
> 
> I will re-post my experience with this tradesman, and keep it factual, to allow fellow members to draw their own conclusions
> 
> ...



Hey donburke - I am still keen to know where your LHBS is if you're in Leichhardt. Not to avoid him, to buy, just as I am near there during the week.


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## donburke (9/3/11)

mckenry said:


> Hey donburke - I am still keen to know where your LHBS is if you're in Leichhardt. Not to avoid him, to buy, just as I am near there during the week.



the closest shop to leichhardt is the country brewer in hurlstone park, they only recently opened

this is not the LHBS that referred me to the tradesman


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## geoffd (9/3/11)

donburke said:


> the closest shop to leichhardt is the country brewer in hurlstone park, they only recently opened
> 
> this is not the LHBS that referred me to the tradesman



Hi Don
Well done on resisting the hype, It cant be easy with all the peer pressure going. Cover your own arse & post when you are confident what you write does not leave you open to any defamation etc, I'm sure any local who has a vested interest can PM you to discuss the issue without exposing yourself to a law suit or making public statements. I admire the composure & restraint you are showing in a tricky situation.
Cheers


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## donburke (9/3/11)

well its out with the old and in with the new, 

in less than a week my family referred tradesman has built my brewstand, 

i spent an hour with this gentleman tonight, tidying up my pots and drilling the holes for thermometers etc

still need the burners fitted, and the wheels fitted, but it looks great and shiny

i'm still waiting on approval from admin to post my experiences with the previous tradesman, but i can tell you that the frame pictured below was not built in peakhurst, nor was this tradesman referred by any brewshop in peakhurst





will post some better pictures when i pick it up


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## keifer33 (9/3/11)

That looks o so nice.

Kudos on not getting angry and posting too much information.


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## Cocko (9/3/11)

Amazing mate!

Looks like you have a stand for life there....

Glad the plans have come back around and you are back on track, by the seems of things.


Can you get more photos around the left hand side, maybe with the calendar in the back ground a bit more in focus?  

Seriously though, please keep posting info and pics so we can follow your journey and achievements.. and in particular, once the day comes! I promise it will be worth it IMO!


:icon_cheers:


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## gone_fishing_ (9/3/11)

Hey Don,

if you are happy with the work, then post your recommendation of who does a great job.
gf


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## XavierZ (9/3/11)

Thumbs up for your new bloke Don and his great work...*COUGH* _Nudie Calendar_ *COUGH*


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## donburke (9/3/11)

XavierZ said:


> Thumbs up for your new bloke Don and his great work...*COUGH* _Nudie Calendar_ *COUGH*




brew porn, literally


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## donburke (9/3/11)

gone_fishing_ said:


> Hey Don,
> 
> if you are happy with the work, then post your recommendation of who does a great job.
> gf




i spoke to him about this, he is a shop fitter, doesnt normally do this type of stuff, he and his team specialise in larger projects, he did this for me only because of his relationship with family member,

i'll tell you who does a great job, beerbelly, the quality of the parts that i received from beerbelly were second to none, and amanda was very helpfull with me fumbling over which parts i needed, its almost like she read my mind and knew what i needed, excellent

craftbrewer also do a great job, i have placed more than 20 orders with them over the last 2 years, from mixed grains, single grains, milled, unmilled, parts, bulk buys etc, every single order has been filled exactly as ordered and has been despatched virtually immediately, this consistent and professional standard instills a lot of trust, and i have no hesitation in recommending them


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## donburke (16/3/11)

i picked up my brewstand tonight, very very happy,

now need the plumber to do his bit, burners have been mounted, wheels are on, march pump fitted, all fittings on my pots, 

its getting close ......

will take some better photos soon and post but in the meantime here is a quick and dirty snap from my phone

i also have heard back from admin re the previous tradesman and have been advised to not name the tradesman, 

but if anyone was planning on using a metalworker situated in peakhurst, please pm and i can tell you my experiences with him


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## unrealeous (16/3/11)

That looks awesome!


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## Cocko (16/3/11)

OMG!

I will send you my camera! 

Please post more pics - looks like you have come out on top!

More importantly, when is launch day?


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## donburke (16/3/11)

Cocko said:


> OMG!
> 
> I will send you my camera!
> 
> ...


pics will come, i promise

launch day depends on the plumber, but i hope the launch day will be saturday 2nd april for a no chill batch anyway, 

still need to sort out my cooling coil for fast chilling, but wont be much longer anyway


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## donburke (16/3/11)

unrealeous said:


> That looks awesome!




yep, i just stood there watching for a while, like a kid proud of his new toy

thanks


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## razz (16/3/11)

Nice job DB


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## Leigh (16/3/11)

That is a nice shiny new rig :beerbang:


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## Cocko (16/3/11)

donburke said:


> launch day will be saturday 2nd april for a no chill batch anyway,



Woo Hoo! 17 sleeps....

Bring it!


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## The Scientist (16/3/11)

donburke said:


> View attachment 44716



Now thats hot :icon_chickcheers: 

I feel like I'm cheating on my rig by looking at yours with my wanting eyes :lol:


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## donburke (16/3/11)

The Scientist said:


> Now thats hot :icon_chickcheers:
> 
> I feel like I'm cheating on my rig by looking at yours with my wanting eyes :lol:




doesnt matter where you get your appetite from, as long as your home for dinner


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## donburke (19/3/11)

as promised, here are some better pics of my brewery

i gave it a test run today, moving my rambo burner around as the mongolian burners are yet to be plumbed
i managed to knock out 60 litres of no chilled beer, my favourite citra lager, successfully
had a few teething issues, had a slight leak in the fittings of the march pump, a bit of teflon tape and a spanner fixed that
the rambo burner was a bit slow in getting sparge and mash water up to temp, but got there in the end, mongolians should be fine
mash tun didnt hold temp well enough, hoping my herms coil will help that when installed
fumbled a bit to prime the march pump, i suppose experience will help me understand the best way to do it
my evaporation rate was lower than anticipated, easy to adjust

i was very happy with my results today and look forward to finishing it

here are the pics

THE BREWERY



BALL VALVE AND THERMOMETER



INSIDE THE KETTLE



INSIDE THE MASH TUN



INSIDE THE HLT



PORTRAIT OF THE MASHTUN  



MARCH PUMP



WHEELS



BURNER MOUNTING WITHOUT BURNER



WHAT IT WILL LOOK LIKE WITH MONGOLIAN BURNER


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## keifer33 (19/3/11)

That looks insane, nice clean blingy as brewery. Good work man.


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## Gout (19/3/11)

thats one AWESOME brew stand - you have to be happy with that.

my poor stand looks like a hag after seeing that


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## wakkatoo (19/3/11)

nice! so what's not level - the paving or the stand?


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## donburke (2/4/11)

wakkatoo said:


> nice! so what's not level - the paving or the stand?




not sure, i think the ground, but then it might be the stand, either way ground or stand i'm stuck with


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## donburke (2/4/11)

some updates to the brewery today, the cooling coil/herms coils is done and installed in the kettle

also have a cover for the march pump to stop fluids dripping on it

the coil is 24 metres of 6mm ID 8mm OD stainless pipe, 

tap water flowing through the coil is exiting at 4 litres per minute

the march pump can push just under 1 litre per minute through the coil

THE COIL INSIDE THE KETTLE




TWO MORE BALL VALVES TO CONTROL FLOW THROUGH THE COIL 



THE COIL INSIDE THE KETTLE



MARCH PUMP COVER


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## [email protected] (2/4/11)

donburke said:


> some updates to the brewery today, the cooling coil/herms coils is done and installed in the kettle
> 
> also have a cover for the march pump to stop fluids dripping on it
> 
> ...



Wanna swap?


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## Mayor of Mildura (2/4/11)

nice...almost as good as my birko :lol:


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## donburke (2/4/11)

Paxxy said:


> Wanna swap?



dont know if the wife is into that


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## Screwtop (2/4/11)

Kalos!


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## [email protected] (2/4/11)

donburke said:


> dont know if the wife is into that



:unsure:


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## gone_fishing (2/4/11)

Don,

Why didn't you go for counterflow chiller outside of the kettle?
Your going to have to stir the wort for effective chiling now (read pain in the ass).
You will also need a pressure cleaner to clean that coil too.
gf


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## donburke (2/4/11)

gone_fishing said:


> Why didn't you go for counterflow chiller outside of the kettle?



the coil doubles as a herms coil, i'll pump mash liquor through it whilst heating the water in the kettle, i'm trying to integrate things



gone_fishing said:


> Your going to have to stir the wort for effective chiling now (read pain in the ass).



i'll let the march pump do that, there is a whirlpool re-entry that will recirculate the wort whilst chilling



gone_fishing said:


> You will also need a pressure cleaner to clean that coil too.



thats the next project, but in the meantime a warm soak in napisan or pbw will do the trick


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## gone_fishing (2/4/11)

donburke said:


> the coil doubles as a herms coil, i'll pump mash liquor through it whilst heating the water in the kettle, i'm trying to integrate things
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Good luck with the recirculation, avoid using whole hops. Napisan or PBW with corrode the stainless overtime.
gf


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## donburke (2/4/11)

gone_fishing said:


> Good luck with the recirculation, avoid using whole hops.



hopscreen 



gone_fishing said:


> Napisan or PBW with corrode the stainless overtime.



should i order some spares incase the napisan dissolves the coil ?


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## gone_fishing (2/4/11)

donburke said:


> hopscreen
> 
> Dont use pellets then, but I guess you must know what your doing given your capital outlay :icon_cheers:
> 
> ...


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## donburke (2/4/11)

gone_fishing said:


> hopscreen
> 
> Dont use pellets then, but I guess you must know what your doing given your capital outlay :icon_cheers:
> 
> ...



its all getting too hard, life was so much simpler when using the tinned stuff


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## JonnyAnchovy (2/4/11)

gone_fishing said:


> Good luck with the recirculation, avoid using whole hops. Napisan or PBW with corrode the stainless overtime.
> gf




No it wont. Not in the first 20 years, at least.....


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## gone_fishing (2/4/11)

OK. Bet a stuck recirculation first go.
GF

PS: If you are referring to corrosion due to chlorine on stainless, sure the tubing will last 20 years before it is corroded "all the way though". Pitting of the stainless will happen almost immediately. Great place for spoilage organisms to hide.


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## peaky (2/4/11)

gone_fishing said:


> PS: If you are referring to corrosion due to chlorine on stainless, sure the tubing will last 20 years before it is corroded "all the way though". Pitting of the stainless will happen almost immediately. Great place for spoilage organisms to hide.



It depends on what grade stainless has been used. I believe 316 grade is fairly resistant to chlorine corrosion.


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## gone_fishing (2/4/11)

The pots look like "cooking grade" to me. I presume that the chlorine-based cleaners are going to applied on a "fill" basis?
gf


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## Golani51 (3/4/11)

WarmBeer said:


> Looking at his username, he may or may not have had a long-running gardening show on the telly.
> 
> If that is the case, I'm sure money's not an issue.
> 
> Plus, how awesome would it be to have another well know Aussie personality homebrewing. Just adds credibility to our craft.




It isn't the same. Hobbies are Homebrewing, photography, motorcycles. Where is the bloody gardening???

Anyway, it is not about the money. How many hobbies are that much cheaper?


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## donburke (3/4/11)

gone_fishing said:


> OK. Bet a stuck recirculation first go.



what are you willing to bet ? i'll take on your bet



gone_fishing said:


> PS: If you are referring to corrosion due to chlorine on stainless, sure the tubing will last 20 years before it is corroded "all the way though". Pitting of the stainless will happen almost immediately. Great place for spoilage organisms to hide.



who said anything about chlorine ? sodium percarbonate and sodium metasilicate are not chlorine



gone_fishing said:


> Pitting of the stainless will happen almost immediately. Great place for spoilage organisms to hide.



more than half the people on this site use napisan and pbw on their stainless steel kegs, some of them even soak them in it for days, gone fishing, in the interest of all these people i suggest you start a new post and tell them to throw their kegs out because they are pitted


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## donburke (3/4/11)

gone_fishing said:


> The pots look like "cooking grade" to me. I presume that the chlorine-based cleaners are going to applied on a "fill" basis?
> gf



they are cooking grade, thats what i'm doing with them, but i'm not using chlorine based cleaners


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## Greg.L (3/4/11)

Hey Donburke, good setup, I like your money-saving justification, don't forget all the CO2 emissions you'r saving by brewing at home.
I just wanted to suggest the best way to clean/sterilise your pipework is just to recirculate hot water, near boiling, for 1/2 hour. This will kill any germs likely to be a bother in beer and won't damage your pipes or get any sanitiser residue in your brew.

Greg.


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## matho (3/4/11)

View attachment PBWTech2.pdf
here is the tech sheet on PBW as it says its safe to use on stainless steel and other soft metals.
So don you dont have anything to worry about

cheers matho


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## donburke (3/4/11)

Greg.L said:


> Hey Donburke, good setup, I like your money-saving justification, don't forget all the CO2 emissions you'r saving by brewing at home.
> I just wanted to suggest the best way to clean/sterilise your pipework is just to recirculate hot water, near boiling, for 1/2 hour. This will kill any germs likely to be a bother in beer and won't damage your pipes or get any sanitiser residue in your brew.
> 
> Greg.




thanks greg, 

i've run a brew through the system, using my rambo burner as the mongolians arent yet plumbed,

the last 15 minutes of the boil was recirculating the wort through the march pump and it didnt block, in fact, it creater a finer filter with hop particles lining the outside of the hopscreen and in my cube went the the clearest wort i had ever seen

cleanup was very easy, and your right, water is the universal solvent, especially when hot

as far as sanitation is concerned, the internal of the pipe is used during mash, the exterior will then be in contact with the boiling wort for at least an hour, as you said, not much life can survive extended period of boiling


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## donburke (3/4/11)

matho said:


> View attachment 45054
> here is the tech sheet on PBW as it says its safe to use on stainless steel and other soft metals.
> So don you dont have anything to worry about
> 
> cheers matho




drats, i was hoping 'gone_fishing' was going to convince everyone to throw out their kegs and i would have had a field day next council cleanup

thanks matho, :icon_cheers: 

my undestanding of pbw is that it has a buffering agent in it to keep the ph in check, to neutralise the alkalinity of the sodium metasilicate, thus it being safe on soft metals


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## [email protected] (3/4/11)

I wouldn't worry to much about gone_fishing, he sounds a bit jealous to me. Congrats on an awesome system.


Not to mention any nasties developing inside the coil won't be a problem because wort going through them will be boiled for over an hour, and wort on the outside boiling for an hour will sanitize the coil better then you're best cleaning stuff. You could have the worst of the worst bugs growing on it and it wont infect your beer.


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## Greg.L (3/4/11)

Also when you use the coil to cool it will get a really good rinse with hot water, I wouldn't use any sanitiser at all in the coil because there really isn't any point, it will actually be cleaner if you don't sanitise.


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## [email protected] (3/4/11)

Greg.L said:


> Also when you use the coil to cool it will get a really good rinse with hot water, I wouldn't use any sanitiser at all in the coil because there really isn't any point, it will actually be cleaner if you don't sanitise.




Only the outlet side. The inlet side water will still be cold. Perhaps while boiling the wort, run a few litres of hot water through the coil to rince the wort out at boiling temperatures.


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## bonj (3/4/11)

Oh so shiny.... That's brew porn right there!


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## kevin_smevin (3/4/11)

gone_fishing said:


> OK. Bet a stuck recirculation first go.
> GF
> 
> PS: If you are referring to corrosion due to chlorine on stainless, sure the tubing will last 20 years before it is corroded "all the way though". Pitting of the stainless will happen almost immediately. Great place for spoilage organisms to hide.



I whirlpool via a march pump and a beerbelly hopscreen every brew with pallet hops. Never got stuck


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## Jazzafish (3/4/11)

Nice Rig,

It is similar to mine, only I have a copper coil and have not fixed it into a vessel. Also none of my plumbing is fixed. This is largely because I cannot weld or cut in a straight line, but also because it gives me flexibility. 

Your brewery looks pretty and will work the way you want it. A few nay sayers have given you a heads up of potential issues to be wary of, cleaning is probably the most valid out of what I skimmed through. Personally I use caustic on my stainless steel, an overnight soak and a soft wipe will clean it all quite well. Napisan and PBW works too, but in the interest of a happy wife/happy life, steer clear of taking the wife's napisan.

One thing I have noticed on my system that you may need to nut out:
The HX/Wort Chiller in a large vessel like that will be a more efficient at chilling wort than heating a mash. Well on my system anyway. Heat stick and gas burner required for 1 degree a minute mash heating.


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## donburke (3/4/11)

Jazzafish said:


> Nice Rig,
> 
> It is similar to mine, only I have a copper coil and have not fixed it into a vessel. Also none of my plumbing is fixed. This is largely because I cannot weld or cut in a straight line, but also because it gives me flexibility.
> 
> ...



jazzafish,

i tested the cooling power of the coil today, 85 litres of boiling water, 22 degree tap water, went like this;

time temp
0:00 99
0:03 87
0:07 79
0:09 74
0:12 68
0:19 57
0:24 51
0:29 46
0:37 40
0:45 35
1:00 30

flow rate of tap water was about 4 litres/min exiting the coil and the march pump was recirulating the hot water the whole time

i hit diminishing returns after about half an hour, i will look at making an ice bath and getting myself a submersible pump to take over from the 40 degree mark

the heating side is yet to be tested, what did you mean by 'Heat stick and gas burner required for 1 degree a minute mash heating'?


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## gone_fishing (3/4/11)

Hey Don,
Great specs cooling water. Hope the same goes with cooling trub and hop filled wort. Not sure where your return for cooling recirc is situated? Are you pumping wort through the "system" as well as sparge water and "processed wort" to the fermentation vessel? If so you probably should invest in a pressure cleaner to clean the undersides of that very lovely looking coil in your boiler of wort. After all, cleanliness at the final stages of the brewing process is paramount. Just trying to help you and other brewers who are trying to move away from cans of "wort"
cheers GF

PS: Not jealous of what you have done. Rig looks fantastic. Just not sure how practicle it is for producing good quality liquid of malt for fermentation purposes :beer:


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## donburke (16/4/11)

some more progress, the brewery is probably 95% done now, just need the 2nd pump and then i'm done

gave it a whirl today, knocked out 50 litres of 1.075 winter warmer, all went well

my burners sit with an 80mm gap between base of kettle and tip of jet, this worked much better than the 110m i had them at before

the 32 jet under the HLT is a beast, very quick to heat the mash and sparge water

the 23 jet under the kettle worked well to keep the rolling boil without having to turn it down too much, so it didnt soot

the regulator has heaps of flow so all burners can be going at once without any change in output


GAS PLUMBING COMPLETED





32 JET MONGOLIAN FOR THE HLT




GAS BALL VALVES




23 JET MONGOLIAN FOR THE KETTLE



400Mj 2.75kPa REGULATOR


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## razz (16/4/11)

Nice job DB, very pro. :super: I'm sure it was worth the wait, now just get stuck into the brewing.


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## unrealeous (16/4/11)

donburke said:


> some more progress, the brewery is probably 95% done now, just need the 2nd pump and then i'm done


What's the second pump used for?

Anyway - Rig looks awesome - you've kicked a serious goal.


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## Punkal (16/4/11)

Looks very nice... Very clean looking design and simple compared to some other designs on the net...

Looking at building a 3v system myself my be going through this thread again to borrow some ideas...


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## donburke (16/4/11)

razz said:


> Nice job DB, very pro. :super: I'm sure it was worth the wait, now just get stuck into the brewing.




thank razz

pity we are coming into winter, and consumption slows, but at least i would have ironed out any bugs before peak season next summer,


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## donburke (16/4/11)

unrealeous said:


> What's the second pump used for?
> 
> Anyway - Rig looks awesome - you've kicked a serious goal.




hi unrealous,

the 2nd pump will serve 2 purposes, 

1) as i am using the coil in the kettle as a heat exchange, i will need one pump to pump the mash liquor through the coil, the 2nd pump will recirculate the hot water bath the coil is in to ensure even temperature

2) when chilling, one pump will recirculate wort, i'll use tap pressure through the coil to drop the wort to say 30, then switch over to an ice bath that the 2nd pump will push through the coil

the pump i'm waiting for delivery is this one

http://www.marchpump.com/ac-5b-md

because my coil is narrow and long, the 809 march pump only manages a litre a minute, so i decided the get the faster flow one to increase the flow rate to a more acceptable rate for effective increase of mash temp, fingers crossed it works !

i've enjoyed the build, its stimulating areas of my brain that i dont normally use :icon_cheers:


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## vykuza (16/4/11)

Beautiful Don! I'm envious. - Here's to many fantastic brews from it!


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## donburke (16/4/11)

Punkal said:


> Looks very nice... Very clean looking design and simple compared to some other designs on the net...
> 
> Looking at building a 3v system myself my be going through this thread again to borrow some ideas...




hi punkal, i like things simple in my life, and i think its reflected in my rig,

at this stage i dont have any regrets of not doing things differently, so its all come together well,

my run today was pretty smooth, and i'm sure after a few more brews on the rig it will be even smoother

thanks


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## donburke (16/4/11)

Nick R said:


> Beautiful Don! I'm envious. - Here's to many fantastic brews from it!




thanks nick :icon_cheers:


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## roddersf (16/4/11)

Don Burke - That has to be one of the nicest rigs I've ever seen - well done, glad to hear that you've got no regrets with it and that its working well.

One question - did you by any chance use some pre-made plans for construction or did you just dream it all up yourself? I'm curious cause you've totally inspired me... :icon_cheers:


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## donburke (16/4/11)

roddersf said:


> Don Burke - That has to be one of the nicest rigs I've ever seen - well done, glad to hear that you've got no regrets with it and that its working well.
> 
> One question - did you by any chance use some pre-made plans for construction or did you just dream it all up yourself? I'm curious cause you've totally inspired me... :icon_cheers:




i had a dream rodders,

it started with the pots, they were the largest readily available SS ones i could find

so the spacing between was based on the size of these pots,

i didnt want it too tall so i can easily get in the pots, so this determined the height

the fittings are all pretty stock standard stuff from beerbelly,

the fabricator designed the mountings for the burners, and i am very happy with his input and work





i wanted the cooling coil fixed, then i thought, why not use the same coil as a heat exchanger, 

so it all came together something like that


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## sim (16/4/11)

beautiful rig Don! im heading in a similar diection with the herms/immersion chiller idea. mine is copper and not plumbed in so it can go in a smaller vessel, so i look forward to hearing how it works for you. will you use gas to heat when its in heat exchange mode?

Also, are the coils hard up against each other? i had thought id be able to get a whirlpool going via sending hot wort into the inside of the coil (coils hard up against each other) and trap the trub etc (as in jamil chiller) but its not happening. so im curious.

anyways, you must be chuffed with that thing.


cheers,
sim


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## donburke (16/4/11)

sim said:


> beautiful rig Don! im heading in a similar diection with the herms/immersion chiller idea. mine is copper and not plumbed in so it can go in a smaller vessel, so i look forward to hearing how it works for you. will you use gas to heat when its in heat exchange mode?
> 
> Also, are the coils hard up against each other? i had thought id be able to get a whirlpool going via sending hot wort into the inside of the coil (coils hard up against each other) and trap the trub etc (as in jamil chiller) but its not happening. so im curious.
> 
> ...



hi sim,

i'll be using gas to heat the water for the heat exchange, manually controlled, no automation at this stage

the coils have approx 5mm gap between turns, allthough i didnt use the coil in today's brew, it was in my kettle,

the wort was boiling fine with coil in there, and the whirlpool was done with the march pump, and it whirlpooled fine,

my coils stop approx 40mm from the bottom, which allows the trub to form in the middle

i wouldnt say i got a perfect cone, but the trub and hop debris definitely settled in the middle under the coil

this pic might give an idea of the spacing


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## roddersf (16/4/11)

donburke said:


> i had a dream rodders,



That's how it all starts doesn't it. Well, here's to your dreams becoming reality - :icon_cheers: 

Its interesting to note that such undertakings always run into hurdles (referring to the dodgy tradesman), but I guess it makes it all the more sweeter in the end.

Oh, and Kudos on how you've handled yourself with that situation - what goes around comes around I say. You reap what you sow: Sow rip-offs and you end up broke with no friends; sow beer brewing and you end up with good times and good mates! B)


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## stephenkentucky (16/4/11)

Wow don what an amazing rig.... you must be one happy chap, goodonya!


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## rotten (16/4/11)

Well done don, very shiny indeed. How many stainless ballvalves all up out of curiosity?
Cheers


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## donburke (16/4/11)

rotten said:


> Well done don, very shiny indeed. How many stainless ballvalves all up out of curiosity?
> Cheers



1 on the hlt
2 on the mash tun
4 on the kettle
3 on the gas lines

10 in total

heaps less than a russian submarine has


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## Punkal (16/4/11)

WOW... Thats a lot of ballvalves they add up fast... Actually i think that could be close to the number on a Russian sub, some of their older ones at least... 

Still think its a nice and simple design, I am also a big fan of simple designs don...


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## donburke (28/4/11)

my 2nd pump arrived from the US today, its a march AC-5B-MD, ordered it from tesco pumps about 14 days ago 

it has a maximum flow rate of about triple that of the 809-PL-HS which i'm hoping will give me an acceptable flow rate through my long narrow coil that will serve as the heat exchange for ramping up the mash temp

i also plan on using it to pump iced water through the coil when chilling the wort

will get a mounting bracket and cover made up and hopefully fit it this weekend





note the inlet is 1 inch so i will fit a reducing bush so i can fit my camlocks


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## mikk (17/9/11)

Very impressive setup- you couldn't not make awesome beer with so much shiny stuff in one place!

Good to see you'll be filling up those mini champagne bottles with quality beer....


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## Clutch (19/9/11)

This is really impressive.
Anyone care to put a ball park figure on cost. Just so I can point to it with my missus and say "see, that makes the 1198S look cheap, and I'll be at home with you and not out on the dangerous roads!"


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## donburke (19/9/11)

mikk said:


> Very impressive setup- you couldn't not make awesome beer with so much shiny stuff in one place!
> 
> Good to see you'll be filling up those mini champagne bottles with quality beer....




thanks mikk, those bottles are a real hit, the women really love them with a passion pop wai-iti quaffer in them

"ahhhh how cute, little champagne bottles .... i'll drink this instead of champas"


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## donburke (19/9/11)

Clutch said:


> This is really impressive.
> Anyone care to put a ball park figure on cost. Just so I can point to it with my missus and say "see, that makes the 1198S look cheap, and I'll be at home with you and not out on the dangerous roads!"



clutch, 

keep your 1198S and dont let her near this, trust me

she'll make you sell your bike, let you build a shiny brewery (maybe even two) and then insist on a first class round the world holiday with all the left over money


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## Thefatdoghead (19/9/11)

What an awesome setup! That stand is beautiful mate. Such a clean uncluttered brewery, it's real nice. I have 2 of those 32 tip mongolian burners and im so glad I bought them. What size are your pots? If your brewery looks like that I wonder what it looks like where you poor the beer into the glass. Good luck with all the finishing touches mate but by the looks of things Im not sure you'll be needing luck.


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## donburke (20/9/11)

Gav80 said:


> What an awesome setup! That stand is beautiful mate. Such a clean uncluttered brewery, it's real nice. I have 2 of those 32 tip mongolian burners and im so glad I bought them. What size are your pots? If your brewery looks like that I wonder what it looks like where you poor the beer into the glass. Good luck with all the finishing touches mate but by the looks of things Im not sure you'll be needing luck.




gav80,

the 32 jet is a beast, i have one under my HLT, its too much for the kettle, which uses a 23 jet

the pots are all 98 litres, leaves me with 80 lites into fermenters

cheers


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## skippy (20/9/11)

nice setup mate, but where are the sight gauges ?


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## donburke (20/9/11)

skippy said:


> nice setup mate, but where are the sight gauges ?




no sight guage, stainless steel metal ruler, 1cm = 2 litres, piece of piss


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## beer slayer (21/9/11)

Hey donburke

That is one impressive set up!
One thing that i would like to find out is, are they snap on fittings 
on the ball lock valves? Are they stainless? Where did you get them from?
Cheers
BS


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## donburke (21/9/11)

beer slayer said:


> Hey donburke
> 
> That is one impressive set up!
> One thing that i would like to find out is, are they snap on fittings
> ...




thanks beer slayer

ss camlocks are from beerbelly


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## sim (27/3/12)

ay Don, whats the flow on this march AC-5B-MD?

and what does your chilling schedule look like?


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## donburke (27/3/12)

sim said:


> ay Don, whats the flow on this march AC-5B-MD?
> 
> and what does your chilling schedule look like?



sim,

the ac-5b-md is a beast, on paper its about triple the flow rate of an 809

in practice, if going from vessel to vessel, i get about 6 lpm with the 809 and about 20 lpm with the ac-5b-md

my coil is 24m long, as i used 1.5 lengths joined with comp fitting. when pumping through the coil, i get about 1 lpm with the 809 and a little over 2 lpm with the ac-5b-md

i use tap water to cool to 30 deg, 85 litres wort, takes about an hour in summer, and about 45 mins in winter

i then divert the flow via the product coils in my glycol chiller, to take me from 30 deg to pitching temp, takes another 15 mins to get to 20 for ales, and another 15 mins if i want to 15 for lagers

i dont use the coil as a herms anymore, i almost always do stepped mashes and found it much easier to step with either water infusions or direct firing the mash tun and stirring gently (this gives me at least 1 deg/min even if my mash tun is filled to the brim) and no scorching as the pots have a thick sandwiched base that spreads the heat source evenly

i have been thinking of an add on herms/rims controlled with a 2400w element, but at the moment dont see any need for it as i am getting good consistent results


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## pike1973 (1/7/12)

I know this is an old thread but I was wanting to know the actual size of your brew stand?
I've just bought some steel and would like to build a stand that is future proof to what could be an upgrade in the future, at the moment I only have 3 x 50l converted kegs, hoping for larger.

Thanks Adz.


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## bigandhairy (2/7/12)

pike1973 said:


> I know this is an old thread but I was wanting to know the actual size of your brew stand?
> I've just bought some steel and would like to build a stand that is future proof to what could be an upgrade in the future, at the moment I only have 3 x 50l converted kegs, hoping for larger.
> 
> Thanks Adz.


Hey Adam,
Have you read through the Red Rocket Brewey build thread? I found it pretty helpful. 

bah


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## donburke (2/7/12)

pike1973 said:


> I know this is an old thread but I was wanting to know the actual size of your brew stand?
> I've just bought some steel and would like to build a stand that is future proof to what could be an upgrade in the future, at the moment I only have 3 x 50l converted kegs, hoping for larger.
> 
> Thanks Adz.



external dimensions of stand are;

1900 long
470 deep
700 tall including the castors

and as bigandhairy posted, the red rocket build will also provide good help, it did for me


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## pike1973 (2/7/12)

Thanks guys I'll check out the red rocket build.
Thanks again for the info.
Adz.


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## shaunous (13/8/12)

Awsome looking rig donburke, still happy with it all after this amount of time? Is it all working to plan just like you dreamed?

Also where is the link to the Red Rocket build, would mind having a look at that also and cannot seem to find it.

Cheers,
Shaun...


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## hsb (13/8/12)

Red Rocket:
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=10984


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## shaunous (13/8/12)

hsb said:


> Red Rocket:
> http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=10984



Cheers Mate...


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## donburke (13/8/12)

shaunous said:


> Awsome looking rig donburke, still happy with it all after this amount of time? Is it all working to plan just like you dreamed?
> 
> Also where is the link to the Red Rocket build, would mind having a look at that also and cannot seem to find it.
> 
> ...




i am still happy with the rig and have not had any maintenance or operational problems, ** touch wood **

one thing i have improved on is the chilling, i use tap water until say 30 degrees, then divert the tap water through the product lines in my glycol chiller before running through the cooling coil, works well in warmer weather or if trying to get to lager pitching temps

i dont have any immediate plans on automating it as i am getting consistent results with my efforts


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## shaunous (14/8/12)

donburke said:


> i am still happy with the rig and have not had any maintenance or operational problems, ** touch wood **
> 
> one thing i have improved on is the chilling, i use tap water until say 30 degrees, then divert the tap water through the product lines in my glycol chiller before running through the cooling coil, works well in warmer weather or if trying to get to lager pitching temps
> 
> i dont have any immediate plans on automating it as i am getting consistent results with my efforts



Hey Donburke,

Your using the kettle to keep the mash at the even temp, yeh? So that means your not using any burner flame under the MLT or very little?
Also the re entry from the kettle coil back into the MLT, is it above the 'cap' like in red wine maceration so it soaks back through the solids into the liquid below taking the goodness with it, or your re-entry is just back into the liquid, just at a higher point up?

Sorry to ask so many questions, i'm still learning from this type of brewing and can only go off photo's as I dont know anyone who doesnt just brew simple kit, and I like how your set-up is/works, or at least how i think it does  

Cheers,
Shaun...


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## donburke (14/8/12)

shaunous said:


> Hey Donburke,
> 
> Your using the kettle to keep the mash at the even temp, yeh? So that means your not using any burner flame under the MLT or very little?
> Also the re entry from the kettle coil back into the MLT, is it above the 'cap' like in red wine maceration so it soaks back through the solids into the liquid below taking the goodness with it, or your re-entry is just back into the liquid, just at a higher point up?
> ...




shaunous,

the plan was to use the coil thats fixed in the kettle as a herms coil as well as a cooling coil, but it didnt work out that way, in fact i've never tried using it as a herms coil, i'm sure it can be used as one, its just that i havent ...

its simply a cooling coil hardwired into the kettle

why i havent used it as a herms is because i have quite a steady temp hold given the large thermal mass, i might lose a degree in half an hour in the midst of winter and virtually no loss in the midst of summer

for adjusting the mash temp when step mashing, i direct fire the mash tun and stir gently, which achieves at least 1 deg/min ramp, and i've yet to scorch any mash, i think the thick base of the pot prevents this whilst gently stirring. i doubt i would be able to achieve that sort of ramp time with this volume using the coil.

i recirculate my mash before draining, drawing through the false bottom and the re-entry is about 2/3 of the way up the mash tun

i think the coil in the kettle would work well as a herms if it were on a smaller scale, and if the heating was electric which means it could be easily controlled with a temp probe and controller 

i hope this answers your question


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