# Braumeister - Tips & Tricks



## wobbly

I thought I would start a new thread as titled as there appears to be an ever increasing number of members that are adopting these systems (me included) and I'm sure that there will be some sort of learning curve where we can benefit by shareing information and experiences.

To start I have a couple of questions.
1. Can you use either Beer Smith or Promash to design a beer and use the details with confidence to manage your brew day?

2. If so what details/parameters should you enter into Beer Smith (or Promash) for a 20 litre system. Similarly parameters for a 50 litre system

3. As the system appears to (to me anyway) be designed around achieving the planned OG (into fementer) at the end of the mash phase and then maintaining that OG throughout the boil by checkeing OG prior to commencement of boil phase and then either allowing boil off or topping up with water to compensate boil off. Is that how others understand the process? If this is the case hence my question about parameters to be used in Beer Smith etc.

4. Do others use a hop bag or just add the hops direct into the vessel

5. The manual indicates to whirlpool first and then at the end of the "whirlpooling action" add the "immersion cooler". Is that what others do. Not sure why but I have always cooled and once down to temperature then whirlpooled

6. How course do you mill your grain to. I left my Krankanstein at the same setting I have used for many beers using traditional mash tun and found that this was too fine for the system

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## wobbly

Anyone???

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## stux

I think you should change the title of this thread to "Braumeister - Tips & Tricks"

You might notice that in the latest threads box the word Braumeister does not appear


----------



## mikk

Hi Wobbly, 
Q1 & 2- i use beersmith with my braumeister & found it to be quite good. I haven't bothered to set it up to suit my gear exactly, but use it for recipe formulation & calculations.
Q3- I sparge though, & have never not sparged so can't really comment. A 53L mash-in/10L sparge gives about 50L (+/-1L) post boil at an efficiency of 80% using 10kg ish of grain. 12kg of grain drops efficiency to 75%
Q4- hops straight into vessel, though i've used a hop bag with good results too. I think the break material settles better (and stays settled) with some loose hops though, so maybe a combination of the two would be best.
Q5- i no-chill, & haven't used an immersion chiller. I'd be more inclined to do it your way though. The chiller should prob be put in near the end of the boil to sterilise it anyway, making it not possible to follow the manual properly.
Q6-My monster mill mm 3-2.0 3 roller mill is set to 1mm with no problems. What happened when your crush was too fine? I'm surprised it would cause too much of a problem. I haven't even had to use rice hulls or similar for wheat beers or anything, so maybe your previous setting was giving your flour instead of crushed grain?!

Also, when using a hydrometer from the brau's tap, make sure you run a bit through the tap before taking a sample- i've had funny readings due to water or pre-boil low SG wort being stuck in there.
Also, a pickup tube from the tap to the bottom of the brau helps alot too. 
Also, to others thinking of getting one, I can't recommend highly enough the Braumeister, & also getting it from Marks homebrew in Newcastle. 
It was a really big 'investment' for me at the time, but has given so much fun, & awesome quality beer ever since. The 50L is the one to go for- i got the 20L malt pipe too, but have only used it twice so far. Easy to get 55L out of the 50L braumeister without much fear of boilover too.

Hope this helps,
Mikk.


----------



## bullsneck

I will post my findings when I get to give it a red hot go next weekend.


----------



## wobbly

> I think you should change the title of this thread to "Braumeister - Tips & Tricks"




How do I do that? 

Maybe one of the Moderators can do it for me.

cheers

Wobbly


----------



## banora brewer

Just wondering if it would be a good idea to do a 'wet' run before you put any grain in?


----------



## bullsneck

I'd be interested in hearing peoples thoughts or experiences when 'sparging' using a Braumeister.

I added around 3L to the mash just as boiling was reached, but could've added more. Got around 16 to 17L into cube.

I also had a LOT of stray grain (more than I thought would anyway) make their way out of the pipe and into the main vessel. Are others experiencing this?

Will be interesting to see how the beer turns out.

Loved the system though, recommend it.


----------



## proudscum

I normally use 7 to 8 lt of water which i take to 80 oC and just pour it over the top.after a 60 min boil will end up with 25lt total volume with about 23lt in the fermenter.May have the the odd grain go into the boil but nothing to worry about.
welcome to the club mate.


----------



## Malted

mikk said:


> Hi Wobbly,
> Q1 & 2- i use beersmith with my braumeister & found it to be quite good. I haven't bothered to set it up to suit my gear exactly, but use it for recipe formulation & calculations.
> Q3- I sparge though, & have never not sparged so can't really comment. A 53L mash-in/10L sparge gives about 50L (+/-1L) post boil at an efficiency of 80% using 10kg ish of grain. 12kg of grain drops efficiency to 75%



I have a 50L Braumeister coming my way and thought I'd tweak Beersmith in readiness. BS calculated a boil volume of 63L which fits perfectly with what you have said.
Here's a link to a screenshot of how I set up Beersmith for Braumeister http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...mp;#entry797478 I would appreciate any comments.


----------



## bullsneck

Have you fellas modded the filter at all? Or are you sticking with the stock standard mesh that comes with the Braumeister. Mine is a bit like a potato chip, comes up at the sides.


----------



## proudscum

bullsneck said:


> Have you fellas modded the filter at all? Or are you sticking with the stock standard mesh that comes with the Braumeister. Mine is a bit like a potato chip, comes up at the sides.



i fashioned a piece of copper tube to fit inside the bottom of the malt tube to hold the cloth filter down which works well but i like marks idea of attaching the cloth to the s/s filter.so may look at this or see if i can get the new fine mesh filters that come with the newer models.i may email the maker about this.


----------



## jimmysuperlative

I brewed today with my BIAB swiss voile bag acting as the filter. My bag is of the pillow slip design and big enough to line the inside of my 50L BM ...so more than ample inside the malt pipe.
I simply cut a small slit in the bottom of the bag (enough to slip over the post). Put bottom plate in, then bag which fastens over rim of braumeister, add grain, then top plate, stirrup etc and continue as normal.
Worked well. Nearly 12kg grain bill for a Punk IPA clone and went close to targets. Efficiency was down from 80% to about 75% ...probably should've squeezed the bag?  
I'll reinforce the cut with some stitching before next brew.


----------



## wobbly

Hi Mikk



> Also, a pickup tube from the tap to the bottom of the brau helps alot too



To save re inventing the wheel so as to speak how did you do this and what have others done?

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## mikk

Malted said:


> I have a 50L Braumeister coming my way and thought I'd tweak Beersmith in readiness. BS calculated a boil volume of 63L which fits perfectly with what you have said.
> Here's a link to a screenshot of how I set up Beersmith for Braumeister http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...mp;#entry797478 I would appreciate any comments.




Hmmm, not really! 53L mash-in plus 10L sparge probably equals about 55/56L pre-boil due to grain absorbtion. 

And i've never had any 'stray' grain when using the fabric filter fitted with a drawstring.


----------



## mikk

wobbly said:


> Hi Mikk
> 
> 
> 
> To save re inventing the wheel so as to speak how did you do this and what have others done?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Wobbly





Mark (MHB/Marks homebrew) supplied a purpose-bent stainless item which uses a very short piece of silicone hose as a kind of grommet to stay in place. It works really well, but can sometimes bump the malt tube seal off when removing the malt tube prior to boiling. A minor hassle, but i'm still happy to use the pickup every time now.


----------



## schooey

mikk said:


> Mark (MHB/Marks homebrew) supplied a purpose-bent stainless item which uses a very short piece of silicone hose as a kind of grommet to stay in place. It works really well, but can sometimes bump the malt tube seal off when removing the malt tube prior to boiling. A minor hassle, but i'm still happy to use the pickup every time now.



Smart bloke who thought that up.... 

...although the original is a 1/2" SS washer tig welded to the end of a bit of strategically bent 1/2" tube. To fit it, you take the original BM ballcock out and toss it over your shoulder into that bucket of useful things that you never ever seem to use, and you put a thin silicon washer over the dip tube and insert it into the 3/4" socket on the BM. You then take a SS 1/2" x 3/4" bush and screw it into the socket, sealing and tightening the dip tube at the same time. You then take your shiny new 1/2" SS ball valve and screw it into the bush.

When we made the first one, it sat neatly in between the elements on a 50L machine, well away from the malt pipe. I guess the 20L machine is a bit different here, and that's why you're having this issue. I guess all you blokes with the _inferior_ little machine will have to just suffer in yer jocks and put up with it...


----------



## MHB

Easy really, the Crox makes a ball joint between 20mm long piece of silicone tube and the inside of the tap mounting.
Works really well and nowhere near as complicated as the prototype some black hander came up with.
M


----------



## schooey

MHB said:


> Easy really, the Crox makes a ball joint between 20mm long piece of silicone tube and the inside of the tap mounting.
> Works really well and nowhere near as complicated as the prototype some black hander came up with.
> M
> View attachment 47793



Hahahaha... touche!


----------



## bullsneck

I will brew again this weekend. We'll see how it turns out, re: stray grain etc. Otherwise, I will get onto Mark at MHB and see if the fabric + drawstring makes it better.

Does anyone see any problem in using both fabric + drawstring AND the mesh filter? I'm thinking it may make the pump work a little harder perhaps.

Also, are people using rice hulls when brewing on these systems?

Edit - wrong noun


----------



## proudscum

bullsneck said:


> I will brew again this weekend. We'll see how it turns out, re: stray grain etc. Otherwise, I will get onto Mark at MHB and see if the fabric + drawstring makes it better.
> 
> Does anyone see any problem in using both fabric + drawstring AND the mesh filter? I'm thinking it may make the pump work a little harder perhaps.
> 
> Also, are people using rice hulls when brewing on these systems?
> 
> Edit - wrong noun



no rice hulls but if i get a hop rocket i have read that they use the rice hulls to aid in filtering if going into a plate chiller.
Having a sample of what i am dubbing a new world Vienna which has only been lagering for a month so just a couple of test glasses.must say it is tasting pretty good but has a little more lager time to go.


----------



## icarussound

mikk said:


> The 50L is the one to go for- i got the 20L malt pipe too, but have only used it twice so far. Easy to get 55L out of the 50L braumeister without much fear of boilover too.



I'm getting one of these for my 50th Bday (!) I've decided. Currently I am all-grain in the kitchen and want to go up to 50L. I am curious if you find the additional 20L malt pipe necessary for smaller batches? I was thinking the 50L version would be good for high gravity beers in smaller amounts as well as the full 50L but I am just reading, I have not seen this beast in person.. was it worth it really?


----------



## mikk

Yep, the 50l one is the way to go. And yes, the smaller malt pipe is necessary for a smaller batch- about 35l is the smallest you'd want to go with the big malt pipe. And don't forget you need a 15amp power point to run it...


----------



## Mearesy

MHB said:


> Easy really, the Crox makes a ball joint between 20mm long piece of silicone tube and the inside of the tap mounting.
> Works really well and nowhere near as complicated as the prototype some black hander came up with.
> M
> View attachment 47793




Do you sell these? for the 20L model?


----------



## banora brewer

Just wondering if it is necessary to clean the pump after every use?


----------



## pmash

banora brewer said:


> Just wondering if it is necessary to clean the pump after every use?



I don't think so ! I just shove the garden hose into the in and out holes under pressure and flush the gunk out! I've pulled the pump apart twice after 20 brews and good as gold in there. 
I've had the pump rattle a few times with, I suspect, a stray grain, and had to reset the mash. Restart with no probs!!

They really are a cool machine.... :icon_cheers:


----------



## wobbly

I have a 20 lt unit and so far have done three brews 

The first one I got some grain into the pump (not sure how) unscrewed (not hard to do) the pump and cleaned it out 

For the next two brews I have taken particular care not to let any grain "spill" over the side of the malt tube and at the end of the brew session all I have done is placed the tap hose into the pump outlet and "flushed" it out with normal pressure water. After the first time doing it this way I opened the pump up to have a look and it was as clean as a whistel so didn't open the pump after "hosing" it out after the third brew

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## banora brewer

pmash said:


> I don't think so ! I just shove the garden hose into the in and out holes under pressure and flush the gunk out! I've pulled the pump apart twice after 20 brews and good as gold in there.
> I've had the pump rattle a few times with, I suspect, a stray grain, and had to reset the mash. Restart with no probs!!
> 
> They really are a cool machine.... :icon_cheers:


It sure is, I got mine on Friday, first brew only got just over half a fermentor, brew today was much better


----------



## bullsneck

banora brewer said:


> It sure is, I got mine on Friday, first brew only got just over half a fermentor, brew today was much better



Same here. First brew netted around 16L at 2 or 3 gravity points below my target. Today was much better, all targets met!


----------



## wobbly

I note on this site


> http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/speidel-br...25/index48.html


 post #472 that a chap has used a copper elbow inserted/held in the 20lt pump outlet with a section of silicon hose so as to use the pump to create a whirlpool at the end of the boil/cooling phase. Evidently he left it in place for the whole brewing cycle and based on the few following comments didn't seem to cause any issues during the mash and the cone was reported to be as good as when he previously did it with a "spoon"

Has anyone here tried/considered this?

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## wobbly

*Bump *

Re the above post #30 Any comments?

Also Braumeister make and sell a "copper dome" to fit onto the systems 

What is the reason/benefit for these "domes" (you also see them on a lot of "other" commercial set ups)

Are they just to vent the kettle to the outside?

Do they have an extraction fan to assist with removal of the "boil off" (I know the Braumeister ones don't have fans)

Are they to assist with heat retention but still allowing the undesirable volitiles to "boil off"

What would be the potential benefits to a home brewer with a 20lt unit be (if any) I'm not proposing to buy one just if there are perceived benefits maybe I will consider making one somehow 

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## Siborg

Interesting post re the copper elbow. I reckon that'd be a good idea to create a whirlpool besides stirring it, which I've been doing.

Has anyone had problems with either of the following:

a) erruption from built up pressure (as per American guys video on youtube (name and link escapes me) - crush too thin, maybe?

B) slow leak on tap, 20L version - could I just replace this with a standard ball valve?


----------



## humulus

banora brewer said:


> Just wondering if it is necessary to clean the pump after every use?


I do there are little holes in the impellar that block up with bits of grist,heaps easy too pull apart and clean!!!!


----------



## wobbly

Those using Brumeisters what is your "typical" mash schedule?

What temperature do you "Dough In" at?
Do you do a protein rest and if so at what temperature and for how long?
At what Temnperature do you set your main Saccharification rest at and for how long?
Do you do a stepped mash if so at what temperature and for how long?
Do you check conversion at each stage and what do you do if you find that you have reached conversion or worst still haven't reached the required level of conversion before the next stage? 
How do you say, extend the mash time if you have stuffed up on the programing?
Do you "Mash out"?

All the above will depend on the recipie and particular type of brew/beer being managed but I guess my questions are more generic in that seeing that you have the ability to easily program 5 steps in the mash schedule what do you do?

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## Mearesy

My starting point for most beers is:

55c for 10mins
63c for 30mins
72c for 30-40mins
78c for 15mins

So far (5 brews) the results have been great!


----------



## mikk

Varies widely on the beer.

Garden variety ales- 38 deg mash-in, sometimes 52 deg 10 mins, 66-67 deg 60 min, 76-78 deg mashout 10 min.

Wheat beers 38 deg mash-in, 45 deg 10 min, 52 deg 10 min, 62 deg 30 min, 72 deg 30 min, 78 deg mashout. Gives good body, mouthfeel & head, & FG remains a few points higher than a single temp of 66/67.

Belgians requiring max fermentability 38 deg mash-in, then ramp as slow as possible from 55 to 64 (ie, a few hours). 76 deg mash-out.


----------



## banora brewer

humulus said:


> I do there are little holes in the impellar that block up with bits of grist,heaps easy too pull apart and clean!!!!


I've been trying to take the pump of to clean, it's really hard to get of, any tips? Is it just the copper part?


----------



## pmash

banora brewer said:


> I've been trying to take the pump of to clean, it's really hard to get of, any tips? Is it just the copper part?



The first time is the hardest! Is that a song title?  
Get a lump of wood and a hammer or mallet and gently tap the brass locking ring in an anti-clockwise direction. 
Once off, to re-assemble, just firmly hand tighten and you should have no more trouble or leaks.

I hope that works for you, as it did for me.

Cheers


----------



## MHB

I find a 3 one of these very useful.



Couple on eBay right now, also available through most any tool shop or good hardware store, I find they have to order them in but they really are the nuts.
Mark


----------



## humulus

banora brewer said:


> I've been trying to take the pump of to clean, it's really hard to get of, any tips? Is it just the copper part?


Exactly what pmash said once you re tighten it you only need to do it hand tight just so it seals on the o-ring
:icon_cheers:


----------



## Malted

I had the best brewday ever yesterday; no issues or dramas at all. The maiden run of my Braumeister!



banora brewer said:


> Just wondering if it would be a good idea to do a 'wet' run before you put any grain in?


Yes. In fact Braumeister recommend this in the user guide/manual for first use. Think of it as a clean and flush out of any residual grease, dust or grime. I should imagine you probably don't need to run through a whole cycle, just fill it to say 30L with some warm/hot water and give the pump/s a whirl. I had little bits of cardboard emerge during this initial clean. 



mikk said:


> Hmmm, not really! 53L mash-in plus 10L sparge probably equals about 55/56L pre-boil due to grain absorbtion.


Yes _total amount_ of water used would be 63L not boil volume. Thank you. I certainly did need an additional 10L above that of mash-in. I thought I was getting an 87% efficiency but had a niggling doubt and checked my refractrometer against cooled boiled water. Yes it was out and I only hit 83% or so!



Siborg said:


> slow leak on tap, 20L version - could I just replace this with a standard ball valve?


Yes you sure could. It is a " female straight (as opposed to tapered) socket on the Braumeister. I thought the original tap looked like it was a very small bore so I replaced it with a "-1/2" nipple and then a " 3 piece full bore tap.








I think I may have got this idea from a picture that perhaps Schooey had posted somewhere. I am also sure that I got the following idea from him too.






I put some rice hulls in the inverted hoprocket (without the high flow cage) and then a couple of hop plugs. Despite this the hop and trub cone after whirlpooling was the best I have ever witnessed and I would be confident of running the wort straight out of the Braumeister and through the plate chiller. It flowed so well that I had to back it off by partially closing the tap on the Braumeister.


----------



## humulus

Siborg said:


> Interesting post re the copper elbow. I reckon that'd be a good idea to create a whirlpool besides stirring it, which I've been doing.
> 
> Has anyone had problems with either of the following:
> 
> a) erruption from built up pressure (as per American guys video on youtube (name and link escapes me) - crush too thin, maybe?
> 
> B) slow leak on tap, 20L version - could I just replace this with a standard ball valve?


Yep siborg my 20l tap leaks put seals up when the temp climbs.and ive also had the volcano happening think i put too much grain in,i paused the process stirred it with the mash paddle and all was ok(probably similar to a stuck sparg!


----------



## Malted

humulus said:


> Yep siborg my 20l tap leaks put seals up when the temp climbs.and ive also had the volcano happening think i put too much grain in,i paused the process stirred it with the mash paddle and all was ok(probably similar to a stuck sparg!



Just a guess.
I note that there is a groove in the thread of the tap where the o-ring is meant to sit. Perhaps the o-ring is not sitting in the groove because the nut has forced it past it? Remove tap, add a little thread tape, make sure o-ring is in the groove? Wind tap onto socket until the o-ring bottoms against the socket and then tighten the nut?


----------



## Bribie G

I was looking on the BM site and I note that in the latest English version diagrams the "valve" is no longer referred to as the "output cock". 
Obviously Florian has been teaching them correct English


----------



## DarkFaerytale

for those that have the 50L, is it still quite easy to do smaller batch brews, ei. 20-25L ?

cheers

-Phill


----------



## wobbly

There is a pod cast on "Basic Brewing" back on the 21st April 2011 with a guy from Norway that has done over 150 brews with a 20lt Braumeister and incedently he won this years Norwegian brewer of the year with abeer he made in his Braumeister. 

The link is here and there are a few points that he makes that I found of interest

http://hw.libsyn.com/p/b/f/7/bf7568a62f1ca...p;l_mid=2543367

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## Malted

DarkFaerytale said:


> for those that have the 50L, is it still quite easy to do smaller batch brews, ei. 20-25L ?
> 
> cheers
> 
> -Phill



Are you talking about the short malt pipe? 

No experience with the short malt pipe myself but if I interpret what I have heard correctly, then it needs a volume of 30L or so to use the short malt pipe {as oppossed to the regular malt pipe in the 50L} so with loss to grain, 60min boil evaporation & cooling loss you'd be around 25L, maybe even down to 20L with a 90 min boil? 

I too am keen to hear from someone who has actually used a short malt pipe in the 50L. What is your experience with actual volumes?


----------



## fleshy

Malted said:


> Are you talking about the short malt pipe?
> 
> No experience with the short malt pipe myself but if I interpret what I have heard correctly, then it needs a volume of 30L or so to use the short malt pipe {as oppossed to the regular malt pipe in the 50L} so with loss to grain, 60min boil evaporation & cooling loss you'd be around 25L, maybe even down to 20L with a 90 min boil?
> 
> I too am keen to hear from someone who has actually used a short malt pipe in the 50L. What is your experience with actual volumes?




I've done 6 batches with the short malt pipe in the 50L (I'm currently upgrading my fermentation space to take larger than 20 litres). My last 3 batches have all been 28 litres in the tun with a 1 to 1 ratio of sparge water to grain through the top of the lifted malt pipe prior to removing the top filter. This pretty much puts me at the 30 litre marker in the vessel. I boil for 60 minutes at the 101 degree setting and end up just under the 25 litre marker (close to 23 litres). I've been within 2 points of predicted OG for the last 3 runs.

I found any less then 28 litres in resulted in a very stiff mash, that took a lot of work thoroughly wet and ensure no dough balls.

I'm not running any mods aside from aluminium fly screen as the bottom filter. I manually whirlpool and tilt the whole vessel at end to drain through my plate chiller.


----------



## Siborg

Malted said:


> I had the best brewday ever yesterday; no issues or dramas at all. The maiden run of my Braumeister!
> 
> Yes. In fact Braumeister recommend this in the user guide/manual for first use. Think of it as a clean and flush out of any residual grease, dust or grime. I should imagine you probably don't need to run through a whole cycle, just fill it to say 30L with some warm/hot water and give the pump/s a whirl. I had little bits of cardboard emerge during this initial clean.
> 
> Yes _total amount_ of water used would be 63L not boil volume. Thank you. I certainly did need an additional 10L above that of mash-in. I thought I was getting an 87% efficiency but had a niggling doubt and checked my refractrometer against cooled boiled water. Yes it was out and I only hit 83% or so!
> 
> 
> Yes you sure could. It is a " female straight (as opposed to tapered) socket on the Braumeister. I thought the original tap looked like it was a very small bore so I replaced it with a "-1/2" nipple and then a " 3 piece full bore tap.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I may have got this idea from a picture that perhaps Schooey had posted somewhere. I am also sure that I got the following idea from him too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I put some rice hulls in the inverted hoprocket (without the high flow cage) and then a couple of hop plugs. Despite this the hop and trub cone after whirlpooling was the best I have ever witnessed and I would be confident of running the wort straight out of the Braumeister and through the plate chiller. It flowed so well that I had to back it off by partially closing the tap on the Braumeister.


Wow!

That has inspired me. Is that a hopback or filter? What do you use for filtering hops from the boil? I was thinking of a muslin bag, which I used on my last brew which was all galaxy flowers late. I've been toying with the idea of getting a plate chiller (currently no chill), but not too sure due to possible blockages.


----------



## RdeVjun

Looks like a Blichmann Hoprocket to me Si! :icon_cheers:


----------



## Siborg

RdeVjun said:


> Looks like a Blichmann Hoprocket to me Si! :icon_cheers:


Me like...

edit: that would actually filter out any hop material from the boil, wouldn't it?


----------



## RdeVjun

Yeah, getting a bit OT here however, as an aside, IMO whole hops/ plugs are excellent for filtering out some break material, bunging a heap in one of those hopbacks could achieve two things- break filter media and also a mechanism for imparting late hops character. However, to be honest, I've never used one of those particular hopbacks and the manufacturer emphasises the fact that its not a filter, but I'd take a stab at it and suggest that in the right proportions (of pelletised kettle hops) and circumstances (eg. after a whirlpool, scrubby pickup) and suggest it could well do the job and that's why they're attractive to me. :icon_cheers:


----------



## Malted

Siborg said:


> Me like...
> 
> edit: that would actually filter out any hop material from the boil, wouldn't it?




Yes indeed it is a Blichman Hop rocket, you can see the label in the photo.
Worked a treat. The hop rocket is actually upside down the way I used it, like I said though, monkey see, monkey do, it was not an original idea.
There is a perforated mesh screen inside it which I put some rice hulls on top of and then a couple of hop plugs, no scrubbie or anything just straight out of the tap. Any loose pellet hops or break material got caught up in the plugs and rice hulls. Under a gravity feed like that I actually had to slow the flow down with the tap, worked better than I had imagined it would.


----------



## wobbly

Today I decide to document the progressive details of the mash for the brew I did today. My system is a 20lt unit and I have a home made insulating skirt made out of a bit of carpet on the otuside of the unit to improve heat retention

Grain Bill 5kg made up of 4kg Pilsner, 400g Caramalt, 400g carapils and 200g crystal

1. Doughed in at 38C and let it stand/sit for 20 mins before starting the programe for grain to fully hydrate
2. Did a protein rest at 53C for 10 mins. It took the Braumeister 14 mins to heat from 38C to 53C
3. Checked the SG at the start of Protein rest and was already 1013
4. Mash looked quite stiff (not much over flow over edge of malt pipe) so paused prog and stired mash and restarted - flow over malt pipe improved maybe by a factor of 2
5. Paused and repeated mash stir after another 10 mins but didn't see any noticable improvement (like after the first stir) in over flow
6. First malt rest schedule was 63c for 40mins. The system took 13 mins to ramp from 53C to 63C. SG at the start of this rest was 1024
7. Did Iodine test at end of 40mins at 63C and the colour was bright redish with no evidence of any blue/black colour indicative of no starch present??? SG at end of 63C rest was 1043
8. Second malt rest was 72C for 40 mins. The system took 9 mins to ramp from 63C to 72C. At the start of this rest the SG was 1043
9. SG at the end of second rest (72C for 40 mins) was 1050
10. Mashed out at 78C for 10 mins
11. Lifted malt pipe and let it drain for about 10 mins and then moved to a separate bucket so as to be able to check sparge running SG
12. First sparge was flood with 2lt 78C water and SG of runnings was 1034
13. Second sparge was flood again with 2lt 78C water and SG runnings were 1024
14. Did a third flood sparge again with 2lt of 78C water and SG was 1020
15. Vol in Braumeister now 27lt and SG was 1047 at the start of boil which is indicative of (depending on how you do the calculation) of between 81 and 84% mash eff.

What would I do differently next time.
1. Stir the mash after the end of the dough in delay (before starting program)
2. Maybe consider either opening the crush up a bit or adding some rice hulls
3. Possibly do a fourth sparge based on above results so as to end up with another couple of lts into fermenter
16. Vol at end of 90 min boil was 22lt and SG was 1055 compaired to target of 1053

This may be of interest to other Braumeister users

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## bullsneck

Has anyone here measured their Braumeisters with a ruler with water in it? So they can ascertain how much water they have by simply chucking a stainless steel ruler in and taking a reading. My old kettle used to be 1.13cm to the litre but I have no idea what a Braumeister 20L is per litre.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

MHB said:


> Easy really, the Crox makes a ball joint between 20mm long piece of silicone tube and the inside of the tap mounting.
> Works really well and nowhere near as complicated as the prototype some black hander came up with.
> M
> View attachment 47793



Is this a pick-up tube for the BM 50L? I need one but not really understanding this explanation.


----------



## Duff

Second brew today (20L) and found the following:

- It struggled a bit with a 5kg grain bill even with rice hulls which stopped the pump a couple of times. 4.5kg seems to be the limit.
- It will boil over with the lid on  

You read of the old German breweries mashing at low 30's &copy; for one of their first steps. After trying this today the BM didn't enjoy the starch sediment too much which the pump struggled with. Both beers so far have been pilseners, the first one a couple of weeks ago started off in the low 50's. I will be sticking to this from now on.

Anchor Steam next week!!

Cheers.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

My first brew with the 50L BM I mashed in about 12kg of grain plus rice hulls. It only just fit in and was a bitch to mash. I made the rye robust porter. The wort struggled to pump through the thick grain bill but it did manage to pump. I ended up with about 68% efficiency and my OG was low but now I know it's limits. I mashed in at 38deg then ramped up to 53 and so on. I did notice a lot of little bits of grain floating around (not whole) but maybe that was from the rice hulls. 
My second brew I hit 83% efficiency with a 10.5kg grain bill in the malt pipe. Pretty happy with that.


----------



## Florian

bullsneck said:


> Has anyone here measured their Braumeisters with a ruler with water in it? So they can ascertain how much water they have by simply chucking a stainless steel ruler in and taking a reading. My old kettle used to be 1.13cm to the litre but I have no idea what a Braumeister 20L is per litre.



It's exactly one cm per litre, so 5 cm between the 5 litre markings. I use a normal tape measure (the ones that roll up at the press of a button, with a metal edge at the end). It makes it really easy because you can just slot the metal edge in the marking under water or wort level and pull the tape up, then just read the amount of cm at water level. So when you have dark wort you don't need to be able to see the markings as you just 'slot in' instead. 
So or example 25L marking + 2.5 cm = 27.5L

Probably sounds more complicated as it is.

Or you could just measure from the top marking down of course.

EDIT: not sure about the 50L, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was something equally easy like 1.5 cm per litre or so.


----------



## wobbly

Hi Duff

Back in post #46 I refferenced a pod cast where they inteviewd a Norweigen brewer who uses a 20lt Braumeister and has done more than 100 brews with his system. If you haven't listed to it it might be worth your while.

The points that I got out of it are.
1. 5.5kgs is about the maximum amount of grain you can use without experiencing some issues. He did say that you could push it to 6kg with care (what ever that means)

2. He stated that he pauses the mash program about every 10 to 15 minutes a few times and gives the mash a gentle stir and this improves effeciency and helps to avoid any channeling as well as "frees up" the grain bed to help the pump. I have tried this and it certainly visably improved the flow over the side of the malt pipe each time after the first two pause and stirs on a grain bill of 5.3kg The third pause and stir didn't visually indicate any further improvement in flow over the side of the side of the malt pipe. I will keep doing this for a few more brews and see where it leads me. I guess with doing this you just need to be very carefull not to get any grain over the side of the malt pipe.

3. He doughs in at 38C and lest the system stand for about 20 to 30mins (without the pump running) before starting his mash schedule to allow the grain to fully hydrate

4. He has found the "optimal" OG range for his brewing is between 1045 and 1065

5. If you target a lower OG you will experience issues with too little grain in the malt pipe.

6. The max water level during the mash is 27lt otherwise the malt pipe gets flooded I assume he is talking about a situation where he has 5.5kg or greater grain in the malty pipe.

Have you changed your grain crusher setting to end up with a courser crush. It states this in the Braumeister instructions and I have found the system works much better with my kraninstein set at at about 1.2mm but I am still trying to find the optimum setting. My next step may well be to close the mill up a bit and try "wet crushing" to see if that provides any benefits in eff and/or pump performance. I think there is a thread on this site some where about how to go about "wet crushing". I know I have read an article on it somewhere.

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## Thefatdoghead

Just listening to the podcast on post #46. He pulls the malt pipe off then mixes the grain because there is a channel from the stud in the middle. Then he rinses the grain.


----------



## doon

After last nights brew I am thinking anything over 5.2kg bill is a struggle for it. I had 5.4 and 100 grams of rice hulls was included as I have had fountain issues with other brews. Was all pretty good till first pump break then poor little pump on my 20l struggled big time. Had to give the mash a really good stir and then it would be happy again but had to do this after every break. 
When it got to last rest before mash out no amount of stirring would help so took it mash out. 
When I had 5.2kg bill had no issues or fountains so this might be magical number. Still it's making awesome beers so can't complain!


----------



## Malted

Does anyone else think that the knob on the lid is difficult to grasp? I had thought of putting a drawer knob on it instead of the BM knob but some bastards stole my tap and die set during a burgalry of my house and shed so I could not cut an M8 thread into a drawer knob. The easier solution at this point was to put a longer bolt into it. I think it will need a locking nut too but it is shed loads easier to grab now.




Simple, easy and quick 'enhancement'. Original bolt and knob arrangement on the right, new M8 bolt and arrangement on the left. All good.


----------



## Batz

Malted said:


> Does anyone else think that the knob on the lid is difficult to grasp? I had thought of putting a drawer knob on it instead of the BM knob but some bastards stole my tap and die set during a burgalry of my house and shed so I could not cut an M8 thread into a drawer knob. The easier solution at this point was to put a longer bolt into it. I think it will need a locking nut too but it is shed loads easier to grab now.
> 
> View attachment 51912
> 
> Simple, easy and quick 'enhancement'. Original bolt and knob arrangement on the right, new M8 bolt and arrangement on the left. All good.




That's a good idea, I think I have a few M8 stainless bolts just made for this.
Cheers Malted.


----------



## Florian

The bolt would still get hot though, no? 
The only reason why I find the lid inconvenient is that I burn my fingers because the knob is so close to the lid. I don't think the bolt would fix the issue, unless you cover it with a piece of pvc pipe or something similar. 
Now that's an idea, I might actually do that one day.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

Yeah maybe put a piece of silicon tube over the exposed s/s bolt.


----------



## Malted

Florian said:


> The bolt would still get hot though, no?
> The only reason why I find the lid inconvenient is that I burn my fingers because the knob is so close to the lid. I don't think the bolt would fix the issue, unless you cover it with a piece of pvc pipe or something similar.
> Now that's an idea, I might actually do that one day.



Yes the bolt may get hot but I'd rather take my chances with it like this than squishing my fingers against the lid. A sleeve would be good too. You'd have to get the sleeve over the nut and the locking nut too if you were concerned about heat transfer. Mine was a quick and dirty 98 cents fix. If I still had my tap and die set I would have kept the original bolt and run an M8 thread into a drawer knob something like this:


 
He he, probably not so much an issue for those folks with little lids...  Looking at you Flo...


----------



## mikk

*Braumeister brewing tips, specifically for 'bigger' beers. 

Using the 50L machine, you'll be able to end up with 40L at up to 1.077 using a 90 min boil, (or approx 36L at 1.085ish with a 120 min boil) using no sugars/extracts. Your mash temp/program will influence this, of course. Efficiency will be over 80%.*

*Make sure the machine is 100% level. Builders wedges are only a few dollars & work perfectly for this

*Prime the pumps manually prior to starting brew program. Let the pumps run for a second or 2, then switch them off then back on again stright away. Repeat as necessary.

*Use 11.5kg of grain in the 50L machine. 12Kg is do-able too, but harder. You will still get over 80% efficiency if all these steps are followed.

*Mash in water volume should never be less than 50L. The malt pipe volume is fixed, obviously, so any reduction in mash-in water qty means less water outside the malt pipe to balance the volume in the malt pipe. Ie, a 45L mash-in compared to a 53L mash-in means the pumps are having to lift an extra 8kg of water BEFORE getting back to their intended flow rate. This is never going to happen.

*Mash-in at 38 degrees. No doughballs, good gelatinisation prior to the sacc rest. Pour of the grain in & stir it REALLY well, then the final , and stir really well again.

*Make any necessary water additions to get the mash PH & water minerals correct. Ezwater calculator works brilliantly.

*A 90 min mash is 100% necessary. With a large grain qty & reduced flow rate, 60 mins isn't adequate. Typically, the difference between a 60 min and a 90 min mash is at least 5 gravity points.

*You will need to stir the mash several times during the mash program. Personally, i've found 2 stirs during the temp ramp from 38-6? degrees, & 2 or 3 stirs during the mash (at 15, 30, 70 min, approx). If you're near the machine when it does it's pump interruption, just pause the program & stir then.

*Sparge. Just 4-5L or so, so it's nice & easy to do on your stove.

*After mashing out & the sparge water has slowed to a trickle, put the malt pipe on a bowl/plate/bucket & allow to drain for another hour or so. Add this toward the end of the boil.

Examples-
Belgian Dark strong
11.78kg grain, Mash schedule 10 min/38, 30 min/62, 60 min/68, 10 min/75.
50L mash in, 5L sparge.
90 min mash, 90 min boil.
OG 1.077, 40L final volume, 36.1L into fermentor after trub loss.

Maibock
12.09kg grain, Mash schedule 10min/38, 90 min/69. Note the high mash temp. This will lower the maximun OG.
50L mash in, 4L sparge
90 min mash, 90 min boil.
OG 1.073, 38L final volume, water added at end of boil to get 40L at 1.071.


The above method may well be improved upon, but i've found it to work very well for me. Beers above 1.070 easily & reliably, regardless of mash schedule, & over 1.085 with a suitable mash schedule & 120 min boil. Efficiency always at least 80%.

For beers bigger than this, just add malt extract to the boil as required, this will also enable you to have a shorter boil time again.

If anyone has some other tips they've found to work well for brewing big beers, please let me know!

Mikk.


----------



## banora brewer

Just finished a brew on my braumeister, started to clean it, set the temp for 40 degrees, I put my hand in there to start cleaning and I nearly burnt my hand. I got my thermometer out and it was reading about 65 when the display panel was saying 40, I don't understand why.


----------



## SJW

banora brewer said:


> Just finished a brew on my braumeister, started to clean it, set the temp for 40 degrees, I put my hand in there to start cleaning and I nearly burnt my hand. I got my thermometer out and it was reading about 65 when the display panel was saying 40, I don't understand why.


That does not sound right. I did my first brew on mine yesterday and when I cleaned up I put enough cold water in to cover up the element and threw in some sod. per carb. and started wiping it around. It started off at 22 deg C and I could feel the element was warm/hot but could still rub it with my fingers to clean the gunk off. But I had my hand in there until it got to about 50 deg c before I had to pull out. This is part of the great design as the surface area of the 2250 w element is so great that it eliminates hot spots and burning of the wort.
Anyway, back to your problem, just make sure the temp probe is clean and try again. How did it go when brewing? Maybe it had something to do with not resetting or switching to manuel mode?

Steve


----------



## banora brewer

SJW said:


> That does not sound right. I did my first brew on mine yesterday and when I cleaned up I put enough cold water in to cover up the element and threw in some sod. per carb. and started wiping it around. It started off at 22 deg C and I could feel the element was warm/hot but could still rub it with my fingers to clean the gunk off. But I had my hand in there until it got to about 50 deg c before I had to pull out. This is part of the great design as the surface area of the 2250 w element is so great that it eliminates hot spots and burning of the wort.
> Anyway, back to your problem, just make sure the temp probe is clean and try again. How did it go when brewing? Maybe it had something to do with not resetting or switching to manuel mode?
> 
> Steve


Brewing seemed fine, I might fill with water again and test again


----------



## matho

banora,

did you have the pump on when you had the element on, I find with the temp probe on the bottom and the element above, the temperature reads a lot lower unless I have the pump on


----------



## banora brewer

matho said:


> banora,
> 
> did you have the pump on when you had the element on, I find with the temp probe on the bottom and the element above, the temperature reads a lot lower unless I have the pump on


Hey Matho, no I didn't, just filled it up again, I will see what happens


----------



## banora brewer

banora brewer said:


> Hey Matho, no I didn't, just filled it up again, I will see what happens


Just tried it with the pump on, much better, thanks


----------



## bullsneck

I've been using cubes (NC) as a means to 'cool' wort from my BM previously. Now with an immersion chiller in my hot little hands I'm thinking about how this would go. I understand that moving wort will allow cooling to happen alot quicker than stagnant wort sitting around the copper coils. With this in mind, is there a foreseeable problem in running the pumps while cooling, say once the wort has reached 80c? Apart from the obvious mixed up trub, which could settle in time, do any seasoned BM owners who chill see a problem with this?


----------



## bullsneck

Bump for the evening crowd


----------



## peas_and_corn

You're essentially talking about a Whirlpool Chiller.


----------



## bullsneck

Essentially it will be a whirpool chiller, minus the whirlpool motion. It would be pumping wort, trub, break material and all. So my question is... Does that present a problem with the quality of the wort or am I being overly uptight about trub and break material?


----------



## peas_and_corn

As someone who for a while didn't whirlpool, I can say that you will have a couple of issues.

1- Your beer will be more difficult to clear out, or at the least take longer than usual to reach the same amount of clarity. If you use a low flocc yeast, this (in my experience anyway) will be a bit more exaggerated.

2- You will have more loss due to trub at the bottom of your fermenter

3- This is the biggest issue, you risk more off flavours. I have had a noticeable decline in hot alcohols and other off flavours since getting less crap into the fermenter. While this relies on correlation as its proof, I cannot think of another cause.


Re-using yeast cake of course multiplies these problems.


----------



## Stormahead

Anyone used an external pump with a BM?
I have a few issues with trying to gravity feed at a good rate through my wort chiller.


----------



## rowanb

Yes - I run out from the bm, to a march pump and through a plate chiller, then into my better bottle. It works fine.



Stormahead said:


> Anyone used an external pump with a BM?
> I have a few issues with trying to gravity feed at a good rate through my wort chiller.


----------



## Eater

Malted said:


> Yes you sure could. It is a " female straight (as opposed to tapered) socket on the Braumeister. I thought the original tap looked like it was a very small bore so I replaced it with a "-1/2" nipple and then a " 3 piece full bore tap.



So am I right in thinking you have a 3/4" Straight or parallel type thread to 1/2" tapered thread to suit the 3 piece valve

If thats the case, where did you get it from? And what is the correct terminology (NPT, BSP, BSPM etc)

I am thinking of following your example but am having trouble finding a fitting to match exactly.


(multiple edits as i try to ask in the most non confusing way)


----------



## Murdoch

Eater said:


> So am I right in thinking you have a 3/4" male BSPP to 1/2" male BSP reducing nipple?
> 
> If thats the case, where did you get it from?
> 
> I am thinking of following your example but am having trouble finding a fitting to match exactly.




Blackwoods, Onesteel, Sandvik all would stock them


----------



## Eater

Thanks Murdoch
Any idea what the correct terminology is or can I just say plainly to them "I am looking for a straight 3/4" to 1/2" tapered thread in a reducing nipple" without looking daft.


----------



## Murdoch

You wont get a straight to tapered fitting but the tapered 3/4 to 1/2 works just use extra threadtape on the 3/4 side
I`d only use SS myself


----------



## Eater

Cheers
Owe you a beer for settling my confusion


----------



## doon

I just asked for a 3/4 to 1/2 ss nipple


----------



## Malted

Murdoch said:


> You wont get a straight to tapered fitting but the tapered 3/4 to 1/2 works just use extra threadtape on the 3/4 side
> I`d only use SS myself



@ Eater: As Murdoch says. 
If you could get a straight reducing nipple it would be great, I think it would be a bit of heartache trying to find one though. I _think _the BM might be NPT and a new tap would likely be BSP. 3/4" NPT to 1/2" BSP - also a lot of heartache or expensive machining.
Just ask for a 3/4" to 1/2" nipple and it is likely to be a BSP tapered fitting (it is tapered at both ends). It is relatively common and works fine with a bit of thread tape. Go easy tightening into the BM - you wouldn't want to snap the socket off. 

There are other ways to do it... Murdoch didn't use a reducing nipple... [invites Murdoch to share his method, perhaps a photo too?]


----------



## Murdoch

Yeah, I used a to inch reducing bush then a x inchnipple to connect to a ball valve (all SS)

I think it would extend out less than just the x inchnipple as I really screwed the inch nipple into the bush before connectingthe bush to the BM

But I mainly did this as I couldnt lay my hand on a x nippleat the time & had access to the other fittings

I`ll post a pic from home tonight







Malted said:


> @ Eater: As Murdoch says.
> If you could get a straight reducing nipple it would be great, I think it would be a bit of heartache trying to find one though. I _think _the BM might be NPT and a new tap would likely be BSP. 3/4" NPT to 1/2" BSP - also a lot of heartache or expensive machining.
> Just ask for a 3/4" to 1/2" nipple and it is likely to be a BSP tapered fitting (it is tapered at both ends). It is relatively common and works fine with a bit of thread tape. Go easy tightening into the BM - you wouldn't want to snap the socket off.
> 
> There are other ways to do it... Murdoch didn't use a reducing nipple... [invites Murdoch to share his method, perhaps a photo too?]


----------



## Brew Matt

Murdoch said:


> [/size]Yeah, I used a to inch reducing bush then a x inchnipple to connect to a ball valve (all SS)
> 
> I think it would extend out less than just the x inchnipple as I really screwed the inch nipple into the bush before connectingthe bush to the BM
> 
> But I mainly did this as I couldn't lay my hand on a x nippleat the time & had access to the other fittings
> 
> I`ll post a pic from home tonight





Not sure if this link from US forum may help. 

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/speidel-br...tml#post3821224


----------



## Malted

Brew Matt said:


> Not sure if this link from US forum may help.
> http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/speidel-br...tml#post3821224



What I got from that was that some fellow claimed that the BM socket is 3/4" BSPP/ISO (british standard pipe parallel).

A tapered nipple like that would be great as it is the shoulders that catch things like whole hop cones. However, you would need a taper on the inside of the hose tail too... and every other fitting...


----------



## Murdoch




----------



## Batz




----------



## Eater

@Murdoch and Malted

Thanks for the further explanation and other methods of getting a tap on the BM

I also read the american article link and I think that is where the majority of my confusion arose from.


----------



## Batz

Here's another very easy improvement for your Braumeister, thanks to another member here. This rubber fits tightly to the legs of the Braumeister and takes that sharp edge off it, won't scratch or scrape anything.




batz


----------



## banora brewer

Batz said:


> Here's another very easy improvement for your Braumeister, thanks to another member here. This rubber fits tightly to the legs of the Braumeister and takes that sharp edge off it, won't scratch or scrape anything.
> 
> View attachment 53005
> 
> 
> batz


Hey Batz, where is the rubber from?


----------



## Murdoch

Clark Rubber, it was called mounting rubber & was with the other c type extrusion rubber sections

Glad it worked out for you Batz


----------



## Batz

Murdoch said:


> Clark Rubber, it was called mounting rubber & was with the other c type extrusion rubber sections
> 
> Glad it worked out for you Batz




I'm thinking a bit on the handles as well, they can be a bit sharp as well as hot.

batz


----------



## SJW

While we are all showing off our toys here is mine. As I chill to ferment temps the outlet drains straight into the fermenter for extra aeration. Thats a 3/4" full bore s/s valve with a 3/4 to 1/2" reducer and a 1/2" 90 deg elbow and a barb. The handle is just a spare Victa mower handle. Nice and easy to pick up and drain when cleaning.

Steve


----------



## Murdoch

Batz said:


> I'm thinking a bit on the handles as well, they can be a bit sharp as well as hot.
> 
> batz




The rubber might need to be a bit smaller/tighter for the handles ?
I tried a piece there but it felt a bit sloppy & not a great fit
I think its the curves on the legs that makes it fit tight there ?


----------



## the_new_darren

Brewmeister FAIL.

I keep hearing/seeing users posts about this "user friendly" machine and its inadequacies.

Why bother with a $2500 waste of money?

tnd


----------



## beers

the_new_darren said:


> Brewmeister FAIL.
> 
> I keep hearing/seeing users posts about this "user friendly" machine and its inadequacies.
> 
> Why bother with a $2500 waste of money?
> 
> tnd



Hmm struggling to figure out what's *new*. Clearly not referring to "new & improved"

Yawn


----------



## MHB

Of course no one ever buys wider tyres for their car or adds a bit of personalisation.
Not so new Darren, if you havent brewed on a Braumeister you arent really in a position to comment, I have and do brew on one and find it serve my need admirably. Mine was one of the first imported into Australia and cost $5000, I dont regret a cent of that money.
Mark


----------



## manticle

the_new_darren said:


> Brewmeister FAIL.
> 
> I keep hearing/seeing users posts about this "user friendly" machine and its inadequacies.
> 
> Why bother with a $2500 waste of money?
> 
> tnd



Which system doesn't have inadequacies or a need for troubleshooting?

HERMS, RIMS, 3V gravity, 2V, 3 V with pumps, BIAB, Bucket in a bucket, etc, bag in an esky, esky mash tun with copper, esky with braid, keg mash tun, pot mash tun etc etc etc ad nauseaum.

Many systems make wort. Many systems have existed throughout history to do so.

And no I'm not having a go at you, nor defending the price tag - just suggesting that all systems have problems and solutions and some suit some people better than others.


----------



## Malted

SJW said:


> Another nice post Manticle.
> You managed to make only marginally more sense than the new darren.



It made perfect sense to me. 
So he has essentially fed the troll but in doing so defended Braumeister's even though he doesn't have one (I think) and you as a BM user bag him for defending your brewing equipment?


----------



## SJW

Malted said:


> It made perfect sense to me.
> So he has essentially fed the troll but in doing so defended Braumeister's even though he doesn't have one (I think) and you as a BM user bag him for defending your brewing equipment?


Yes Malted you are correct, I mis read the post. I guess you dont hit >11,000 posts without "feeding the troll" a bit.
And I apologise to you too Manticle, my bad. Keep up the good work 

Steve


----------



## Siborg




----------



## SJW

Siborg said:


>


----------



## caiosa

mikk said:


> *Braumeister brewing tips, specifically for 'bigger' beers.
> 
> Using the 50L machine, you'll be able to end up with 40L at up to 1.077 using a 90 min boil, (or approx 36L at 1.085ish with a 120 min boil) using no sugars/extracts. Your mash temp/program will influence this, of course. Efficiency will be over 80%.*
> 
> *Make sure the machine is 100% level. Builders wedges are only a few dollars & work perfectly for this
> 
> *Prime the pumps manually prior to starting brew program. Let the pumps run for a second or 2, then switch them off then back on again stright away. Repeat as necessary.
> 
> *Use 11.5kg of grain in the 50L machine. 12Kg is do-able too, but harder. You will still get over 80% efficiency if all these steps are followed.
> 
> *Mash in water volume should never be less than 50L. The malt pipe volume is fixed, obviously, so any reduction in mash-in water qty means less water outside the malt pipe to balance the volume in the malt pipe. Ie, a 45L mash-in compared to a 53L mash-in means the pumps are having to lift an extra 8kg of water BEFORE getting back to their intended flow rate. This is never going to happen.
> 
> *Mash-in at 38 degrees. No doughballs, good gelatinisation prior to the sacc rest. Pour of the grain in & stir it REALLY well, then the final , and stir really well again.
> 
> *Make any necessary water additions to get the mash PH & water minerals correct. Ezwater calculator works brilliantly.
> 
> *A 90 min mash is 100% necessary. With a large grain qty & reduced flow rate, 60 mins isn't adequate. Typically, the difference between a 60 min and a 90 min mash is at least 5 gravity points.
> 
> *You will need to stir the mash several times during the mash program. Personally, i've found 2 stirs during the temp ramp from 38-6? degrees, & 2 or 3 stirs during the mash (at 15, 30, 70 min, approx). If you're near the machine when it does it's pump interruption, just pause the program & stir then.
> 
> *Sparge. Just 4-5L or so, so it's nice & easy to do on your stove.
> 
> *After mashing out & the sparge water has slowed to a trickle, put the malt pipe on a bowl/plate/bucket & allow to drain for another hour or so. Add this toward the end of the boil.
> 
> Examples-
> Belgian Dark strong
> 11.78kg grain, Mash schedule 10 min/38, 30 min/62, 60 min/68, 10 min/75.
> 50L mash in, 5L sparge.
> 90 min mash, 90 min boil.
> OG 1.077, 40L final volume, 36.1L into fermentor after trub loss.
> 
> Maibock
> 12.09kg grain, Mash schedule 10min/38, 90 min/69. Note the high mash temp. This will lower the maximun OG.
> 50L mash in, 4L sparge
> 90 min mash, 90 min boil.
> OG 1.073, 38L final volume, water added at end of boil to get 40L at 1.071.
> 
> 
> The above method may well be improved upon, but i've found it to work very well for me. Beers above 1.070 easily & reliably, regardless of mash schedule, & over 1.085 with a suitable mash schedule & 120 min boil. Efficiency always at least 80%.
> 
> For beers bigger than this, just add malt extract to the boil as required, this will also enable you to have a shorter boil time again.
> 
> If anyone has some other tips they've found to work well for brewing big beers, please let me know!
> 
> Mikk.



Mikk, excelent post

Could you provide more recipes?

Regards,

Caio


----------



## mikk

Caio, since that last post of mine i don't have a much more to add!

If you're just starting out in using the BM, as from your other post you are, rather than follow my instructions to get the absolute most from each brew with the aim of making 'big' beers, you should just try following the manufacturers instructions to the letter, & not use more than about 10kg of grain. Once you get the hang of this, only then should you start varying from your known procedure to make the styles of beer you really want to specialise in.


With regards to my previous post, I'm now convinced that it's the first few stirs and a 90 min mash that really make the biggest difference when using a large quantity (11-12.5kg) of grain in the BM. After mashing in at 38C, i'll usually give it a stir as the temp ramps up to 65/66. Prior to the first stir, the grain is pretty much a solid block of starchy grainy goodness, & quite hard to move around. The flow of wort over the top of the malt pipe increases markedly after each stir, & then slows down gradually as the grain compacts again. The pump interruptions effectively do nothing with this much grain in the malt pipe, hence the need to stir. After the 3rd stir, which is usually about 15 min into the mash, the grain stays loose & fluffy & wort flow stays at maximum after this. A fourth & final stir about 45 min into the mash is just for 'insurance', so to speak!

Since then I've made an IPA & Mild ale

American IPA
11.55kg grain, mash schedule 38/10 min, 65/90 min, 76/10 min
50L mash in, 7L sparge
90 min mash, 90 min boil
OG 1.067, 43L final volume. I was aiming for 43L of 1.065, so added 1.5L water at the end of boil to get 44.5L @1.065. So, approx 85% efficiency.

Mild Ale
8.14kg grain, mash schedule 38/0 min, 68/60 min
55L mash in, 9L sparge
60 min mash, 90 min boil
OG 1.044, 53L final volume. I was actually aiming for 1.038, but left the wort at 1.044. Lucky i did, as the gravity wouldn't go below 1.018 after fermentation. Worked out well at 3.5%, & is one of the nicest beers i've made.

Mikk.


----------



## caiosa

mikk said:


> Caio, since that last post of mine i don't have a much more to add!
> 
> If you're just starting out in using the BM, as from your other post you are, rather than follow my instructions to get the absolute most from each brew with the aim of making 'big' beers, you should just try following the manufacturers instructions to the letter, & not use more than about 10kg of grain. Once you get the hang of this, only then should you start varying from your known procedure to make the styles of beer you really want to specialise in.
> 
> 
> With regards to my previous post, I'm now convinced that it's the first few stirs and a 90 min mash that really make the biggest difference when using a large quantity (11-12.5kg) of grain in the BM. After mashing in at 38C, i'll usually give it a stir as the temp ramps up to 65/66. Prior to the first stir, the grain is pretty much a solid block of starchy grainy goodness, & quite hard to move around. The flow of wort over the top of the malt pipe increases markedly after each stir, & then slows down gradually as the grain compacts again. The pump interruptions effectively do nothing with this much grain in the malt pipe, hence the need to stir. After the 3rd stir, which is usually about 15 min into the mash, the grain stays loose & fluffy & wort flow stays at maximum after this. A fourth & final stir about 45 min into the mash is just for 'insurance', so to speak!
> 
> Since then I've made an IPA & Mild ale
> 
> American IPA
> 11.55kg grain, mash schedule 38/10 min, 65/90 min, 76/10 min
> 50L mash in, 7L sparge
> 90 min mash, 90 min boil
> OG 1.067, 43L final volume. I was aiming for 43L of 1.065, so added 1.5L water at the end of boil to get 44.5L @1.065. So, approx 85% efficiency.
> 
> Mild Ale
> 8.14kg grain, mash schedule 38/0 min, 68/60 min
> 55L mash in, 9L sparge
> 60 min mash, 90 min boil
> OG 1.044, 53L final volume. I was actually aiming for 1.038, but left the wort at 1.044. Lucky i did, as the gravity wouldn't go below 1.018 after fermentation. Worked out well at 3.5%, & is one of the nicest beers i've made.
> 
> Mikk.



Thank you very much Mikk.

I also have the 25L malt pipe for Braumeister 50L. I'm planning to brew the recipe first in this pipe then try to use the 50L pipe. Do you have recipes for 25L?

To transform a 50L recipe to a 25L recipe and use the small malt pipe is just divide the water and grain by 2 and mantain the phases and temperatures?

Regards,

Caio


----------



## Malted

caiosa said:


> To transform a 50L recipe to a 25L recipe and use the small malt pipe is just divide the water and grain by 2 and mantain the phases and temperatures?



I'd suggest you invest in some brewing software, such as www.promash.com or www.beersmith.com 
I myself prefer beermith but plenty of others prefer promash. These programs retail for around $25-30 USD. I think it is a god investment in planning your brewing. I think you can download a trial version of each to see which you like. 

There are also some free brewing programs such as BeerToolsPro (www.beertools.com), BrewMate (www.brewmate.net) 
or others such as those listed on this page (http://beertobrew.com/Beer_brewing_software.aspx).

Generally these free programs are light versions, in that you can't calculate as much on them as a bought program. Some folks use them exclusively though.


----------



## bignath

Malted said:


> There are also some free brewing programs such as BeerToolsPro (www.beertools.com), BrewMate (www.brewmate.net)
> or others such as those listed on this page (http://beertobrew.com/Beer_brewing_software.aspx).
> 
> Generally these free programs are light versions, in that you can't calculate as much on them as a bought program. Some folks use them exclusively though.



Not quite true malted. 

Beertools pro isnt freeware, and is highly advanced and able to calculate complex processes like beersmith and promash can.

Its an excellent piece of software.


----------



## Malted

Big Nath said:


> Not quite true malted.
> Beertools pro isnt freeware, and is highly advanced and able to calculate complex processes like beersmith and promash can.



Apparently not true at all in relation to BeerTools. 
I guess that is why it is not free! My bad.  
Seems to be 'around' the same price as the others.


----------



## caiosa

mikk said:


> Caio, since that last post of mine i don't have a much more to add!
> 
> If you're just starting out in using the BM, as from your other post you are, rather than follow my instructions to get the absolute most from each brew with the aim of making 'big' beers, you should just try following the manufacturers instructions to the letter, & not use more than about 10kg of grain. Once you get the hang of this, only then should you start varying from your known procedure to make the styles of beer you really want to specialise in.
> 
> 
> With regards to my previous post, I'm now convinced that it's the first few stirs and a 90 min mash that really make the biggest difference when using a large quantity (11-12.5kg) of grain in the BM. After mashing in at 38C, i'll usually give it a stir as the temp ramps up to 65/66. Prior to the first stir, the grain is pretty much a solid block of starchy grainy goodness, & quite hard to move around. The flow of wort over the top of the malt pipe increases markedly after each stir, & then slows down gradually as the grain compacts again. The pump interruptions effectively do nothing with this much grain in the malt pipe, hence the need to stir. After the 3rd stir, which is usually about 15 min into the mash, the grain stays loose & fluffy & wort flow stays at maximum after this. A fourth & final stir about 45 min into the mash is just for 'insurance', so to speak!
> 
> Since then I've made an IPA & Mild ale
> 
> American IPA
> 11.55kg grain, mash schedule 38/10 min, 65/90 min, 76/10 min
> 50L mash in, 7L sparge
> 90 min mash, 90 min boil
> OG 1.067, 43L final volume. I was aiming for 43L of 1.065, so added 1.5L water at the end of boil to get 44.5L @1.065. So, approx 85% efficiency.
> 
> Mild Ale
> 8.14kg grain, mash schedule 38/0 min, 68/60 min
> 55L mash in, 9L sparge
> 60 min mash, 90 min boil
> OG 1.044, 53L final volume. I was actually aiming for 1.038, but left the wort at 1.044. Lucky i did, as the gravity wouldn't go below 1.018 after fermentation. Worked out well at 3.5%, & is one of the nicest beers i've made.
> 
> Mikk.



Mikk,

Following your experience and recommendations, what do you think about this procedure:

For 50L malt pipe:

American IPA
- 11.55kg grain, mash schedule 38/10 min, 65/90 min, 76/10 min
- 50L mash in, 7L sparge
- 90 min mash, 90 min boil
- OG 1.067, 43L final volume.
Procedure:
- Mash-in at 38 degrees. Pour of the grain in & stir it REALLY well, then the final , and stir really well again.
- 2 stirs during the temp ramp from 38-65 degrees (at 45 and 55 degrees)
- 3 stirs during the mash (at 15, 45 and 70 min)
- Mash-out
- Sparge with 7L 
- After mashing out & the sparge water put the malt pipe on a bowl/plate/bucket & allow to drain for another hour or so. Add this toward the end of the boil.
- Boil 90min
- Cool
- Ferment

For 25L malt pipe:

American IPA
- 5.75kg grain, mash schedule 38/10 min, 65/90 min, 76/10 min
- 25L mash in, 3.5L sparge
- 90 min mash, 90 min boil
- OG 1.067, 20L final volume.
Procedure:
- Mash-in at 38 degrees. Pour of the grain in & stir it REALLY well, then the final , and stir really well again.
- 2 stirs during the temp ramp from 38-65 degrees (at 45 and 55 degrees)
- 3 stirs during the mash (at 15, 45 and 70 min)
- Mash-out
- Sparge with 3.5L 
- After mashing out & the sparge water put the malt pipe on a bowl/plate/bucket & allow to drain for another hour or so. Add this toward the end of the boil.
- Boil 90min
- Cool
- Ferment

About hops quantity and type, what do you recommend?

Regards,

Caio


----------



## mikk

Mate, you don't need to do half those things you've listed. My post refers to specifically trying to get the strongest beers i can on the BM. As you're unfamiliar with basic BM usage, follow the basic instructions and refer to the other posts where people have tried to give you useful information. DON'T use more than 10kg grain. DON'T stir the grain. USE brewing software to help with recipe formulation. Keep your recipes SIMPLE whilst getting the hang of things. DON'T worry about doing step mashes- a simple single temp infusion will be fine. A 60/60 mash/boil will be fine. Again, read and follow the basic instructions. The Germans know what they're doing!


----------



## SJW

I will just add my 2c worth. There is no need to stop the BM and stir the mash, this kind of defeats the purpose of the unit IMO.
Another this I did with my last brew was add the pipe and grain as soon as the water goes in. As the water heats up plenty fast it does a couple of things. 1st, it give the grain time to swell and fully absorb the water prior to doing its thing, and 2nd while being heated from tap temp to your first step temp would be activating other enzymes for a short time, that (IMO) do not have a detrimantal effect on the overall beer. Either way the BM heats up fast enough that the mash really does not have time at any one temp along the way to change the profile greatly but it does appear to grab a couple of extra points.
Also, I agree 100% with what mikk said. But I love being able to do multi step Lagers nows as I never had the mash volume to do it with the 3v system. But yes, Ales, a single step is fine, I just make it 75mins at least at 67 deg C.
Steve


----------



## Thefatdoghead

Does anyone have the 50L BM thermojacket? I just want to know how fast the temp raises with one on? I timed my 50L without one and I got from 53deg to 63deg in about 12 minutes. 

cheers 

Gav


----------



## Batz

Gav80 said:


> Does anyone have the 50L BM thermojacket? I just want to know how fast the temp raises with one on? I timed my 50L without one and I got from 53deg to 63deg in about 12 minutes.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Gav




No but I'm going to make one out of camping mattress's


----------



## doon

Yeah I think stopping and stirring mash actually caused my issues with pump not getting going again. I brewed yesterday 90 min mash 90 min boil and got around 85% with no stirring except for dough in 

I have thermal jacket for 20l but haven't done a test to see what difference it makes on temp raises


----------



## doon

Just a tip when your hungover and brewing on this double check you have put filters in correctly! Had to pull the mash out today as I had put both fine screens on bottom! Surprisingly after this everything went smoothly! Even mowed the lawn whilst mashing!


----------



## tfxm

Hi all ... I'm trying to remove the pump in my 20L for cleaning but it's not budging. 

Wanted to make sure i'm twisting it the right way before going too far ... So i've attached a picture. 
Should I be twisting anticlockwise to the left or clockwise to the right, based on this picture? 

Help much appreciated ...

Cheers, Tom


----------



## mwd

I think the ring is normal right hand thread.

This video by Steve towards the end shows a pump being unscrewed.  Should help you out it looks like it is only finger tight.


----------



## tfxm

Tropical_Brews said:


> I think the ring is normal right hand thread.
> 
> This video by Steve towards the end shows a pump being unscrewed.  Should help you out it looks like it is only finger tight.




Ahhhhh sweet ... thanks, kinda exactly what i needed. 
Pump is a bit different, and unfortunately mine is not finger tight (yet) ... will keep at it!
Thanks again!


----------



## mwd

I would think that a large screwdriver and a gentle tap with a hammer should free up the lockring if you are careful. If all else fails.


----------



## Bongchitis

tfxm said:


> Ahhhhh sweet ... thanks, kinda exactly what i needed.
> Pump is a bit different, and unfortunately mine is not finger tight (yet) ... will keep at it!
> Thanks again!



Mine was really tight first time I took it off also. Now is finger tight as the others suggest.


----------



## StraussyStrauss

tfxm said:


> Hi all ... I'm trying to remove the pump in my 20L for cleaning but it's not budging.
> 
> Wanted to make sure i'm twisting it the right way before going too far ... So i've attached a picture.
> Should I be twisting anticlockwise to the left or clockwise to the right, based on this picture?
> 
> Help much appreciated ...
> 
> Cheers, Tom
> 
> View attachment 54087



I've taken mine off- (for reasons, don't ask!)
It's normal. RIGHTY TIGHTY. LEFTY LOOSEY!


----------



## StraussyStrauss

I was thinking, you wanted to take the whole pump off! But the motor is the same :icon_cheers: .


----------



## tfxm

Thanks all ... Got it off with a hammer end & mallet, gentle(ish) taps. 
All good and clean now ... running smooth!


----------



## cubbie

After 12 months I am finally in a position to start brewing again - just it time before the first baby. Having just downgraded my shed size and being very space poor I am going to sell my 3 vessels setup and get a braumeister.

So who is selling the braumeister in Australia and online? Where is the best place to buy? I am after the 20 liter. 

My 3 vessels will be up for sale soon, maybe my Rambo burner and high pressure reg - will post some pics and details in a few weeks. Pm if you are interested.


----------



## alfadog

so i have found that if I over tighten the pump (using multi grips) that I have issues with the pump, do it up hand tight and it frees the pump to do its thing.


----------



## tuckerle71

cubbie said:


> After 12 months I am finally in a position to start brewing again - just it time before the first baby. Having just downgraded my shed size and being very space poor I am going to sell my 3 vessels setup and get a braumeister.
> 
> So who is selling the braumeister in Australia and online? Where is the best place to buy? I am after the 20 liter.
> 
> My 3 vessels will be up for sale soon, maybe my Rambo burner and high pressure reg - will post some pics and details in a few weeks. Pm if you are interested.




I'm looking into getting a 50L Braumeister with an extra 20L Malt Pipe, but was scared of the cost of shipping to Tasmania. I expected $100 to $200 and contacted Ross at Craftbrewer. I was surprised to learn that shipping was free as they get them shipped straight from the manufacturer in Germany to the purchaser, so I guess that a 20L would be the same - $2499 no more to pay.
Drop him an email and see what he can do.

Hope this helps.


----------



## Stormahead

doon said:


> Just a tip when your hungover and brewing on this double check you have put filters in correctly! Had to pull the mash out today as I had put both fine screens on bottom! Surprisingly after this everything went smoothly! Even mowed the lawn whilst mashing!



Lol. I did that last brew as well. Was hungover also!

I didn't pull it out and the efficiency sucked due to the pump clogging up with grain husks


----------



## doon

A cleaning tip I just learnt. Pump was making rattling noise when ventilating took it apart and the little hole in impeller where pin sits was gunky. Used q tip and some floss to clean out little cross groov and hey presto no more rattling noise!


----------



## SJW

After cleaning up I put the entire unit upside down to drain and then I just pull the pump of to dry the impeller and check for crap. To easy.


----------



## doon

Yeah I usually do but must of been lazy last clean up! Mmmmm black rye ipa now mashing!


----------



## DarkFaerytale

wobbly said:


> *Bump *
> 
> Also Braumeister make and sell a "copper dome" to fit onto the systems
> 
> What is the reason/benefit for these "domes" (you also see them on a lot of "other" commercial set ups)
> 
> Are they just to vent the kettle to the outside?
> 
> Do they have an extraction fan to assist with removal of the "boil off" (I know the Braumeister ones don't have fans)
> 
> Are they to assist with heat retention but still allowing the undesirable volitiles to "boil off"
> 
> What would be the potential benefits to a home brewer with a 20lt unit be (if any) I'm not proposing to buy one just if there are perceived benefits maybe I will consider making one somehow
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Wobbly



finally managed to read through this thread, i'll be buying a 50L later this year. but just wanted to bump wobbly's question from the second page as it never got answered and i'd like to know myself

cheers

-Phill

EDIT: i'm assuming this is what he was talking about? http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/product_in...roducts_id=8908


----------



## mwd

Should improve your boil efficiency similar to putting a lid on a saucepan. I presume the vent allows the nasties in the boil to vent out to the atmosphere.


----------



## DarkFaerytale

thats what i figured, and it looks cool, but seems a tad expencive


----------



## stux

Apparently also makes filling the malt pipe a doddle, just invert the hood and pour

It's basically brau-bling which is an order of magnitude more blingy than regular brew-bling


----------



## doon

Wonder how easy it would be to make something similar


----------



## Rurik

doon said:


> Wonder how easy it would be to make something similar


\

tooling up to do a spun coper dome would cost more than just buying one


----------



## doon

It wouldn't have to be out of copper though surely?


----------



## Rurik

doon said:


> It wouldn't have to be out of copper though surely?



spun copper would be the cheapest to make.


----------



## wobbly

Would have thought Aluminium would have been cheaper than copper 

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## pmunny

help needed!
trying to bulk up the abv with dry extract but never used it before. should I add it with ten mins to go in the boil or staight in the fermentor with a bit of boiling water before i add the wort?


----------



## Thefatdoghead

pmunny said:


> help needed!
> trying to bulk up the abv with dry extract but never used it before. should I add it with ten mins to go in the boil or staight in the fermentor with a bit of boiling water before i add the wort?


Unless you have some premium DME I wouldn't add it. 15min in the boil to sterilise will do it otherwise.


----------



## mwd

No need to sterilise DME it is fine just drop it into the fermenter but don't use boiling water or it will clump like maltesers.

Not sure why you are adding DME to a BM brew must be pretty full on.


----------



## pmunny

only got the 20l and am aiming for a 8 or 9% belgian. read all about doing twin batches but don't have time.... 
Should I make some candi sugar instead of using the extract and adding to fermentor after a few days once the yeast has got going?


----------



## pmunny

only got the 20l and am aiming for a 8 or 9% belgian. read all about doing twin batches but don't have time.... 
i should make some candi sugar instead of using the extract and add to fermentor after a few days once the yeast has got going.


----------



## seamad

High gravity belgians typically have between 15-30% sugar. Some here advocate adding the sugar in portions after primary or about day four.
For me i would just add dex or sugar for goldens or trippels and the dark belgian syrup for dubbels.
Cheers
sean


----------



## doon

I added 500 grams in the boiler start of boil the other day to an ipa just cause I felt like it. I stuffed up sparge amount if I got it correct would of been 25l at 1.062. Will wait and see if it affects taste. I think large amounts of dme may alter the taste quite a bit


----------



## doon

Anyone managed to make a copper pickup tube for the 20l model?


----------



## alfadog

I just did a dopple bock on the BM, added the DME after it had sat in the fermenter for a few days, turned out just fine.


----------



## Bongchitis

doon said:


> Anyone managed to make a copper pickup tube for the 20l model?




Yep got a prototype going. No pics but basically 20mm length of thick sillicon tubing from sponsors stuck into back of valve on outlet and stuck a bent SS pickup into it and between the element. Sealed well and worked OK but flow was slowwwww as the bend needs to be quite a small radius.


----------



## adraine

doon said:


> Anyone managed to make a copper pickup tube for the 20l model?



Mark from MHB does stainless ones. They fit nicely between the element from memory


----------



## doon

Mark is a busy man though not sure he has had time to make more I enquirered a while ago


----------



## adraine

doon said:


> Mark is a busy man though not sure he has had time to make more I enquirered a while ago



I was in there last week & he had about a dozen. Should still have some.


----------



## doon

Ah nice I will email him thanks


----------



## probablynathan

Thanks to everyone for the great info in this thread. After a lot of deliberating I finaly decided to take advantage of the G&G sale on at the moment and buy myself a 20ltr Braumiester. Can't wait for it to arrive.


----------



## SJW

How much is ot on sale? I thought the 20L was $2500 as standard.


----------



## doon

10% off. I got mine for 2250 when they had a sale on


----------



## mikec

SJW said:


> How much is ot on sale? I thought the 20L was $2500 as standard.



10% off.

Edit: too slow!


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Has anyone figured out minimum mash in volume for the 50l with each malt pipe? They advice 23l, but was interested to see how low you could go and still succeed. I saw Mikk suggested 50l for the 50l malt pipe earlier in this thread...


----------



## Florian

Malted said:


> It is a " female straight (as opposed to tapered) socket on the Braumeister. I thought the original tap looked like it was a very small bore so I replaced it with a "-1/2" nipple and then a " 3 piece full bore tap.




Am I right to assume that this one will fit, or is it the wrong thread type?

Cheers


----------



## Malted

Florian said:


> Am I right to assume that this one will fit, or is it the wrong thread type?
> 
> Cheers



Yes it will fit. Throw some thread tape for good measure. The one you linked to is a tapered thread, just like what I used in the photo. 

I have fittings like that from China for the same cheap prices and the casting is a bit rough and the threads are roughly cut too.


----------



## Wimmig

Hmm i would like to change the tap on mine to something i am more used to...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-threaded-3-Pie...=item4163b8e6b5

Seems like the go. With the valve above, and the reduction fitting Malted will i be good to go?


----------



## Wimmig

adraine said:


> Mark from MHB does stainless ones. They fit nicely between the element from memory



I have one of them from Mark, he includes them in with the buy along with some other extra bits. Ran it on the more recent brews, does the trick without question fits dead on between elements.


----------



## Wolfy

Wimmig said:


> Hmm i would like to change the tap on mine to something i am more used to...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-threaded-3-Pie...=item4163b8e6b5


I have two of those (same vendor), and the body-bolts on both rusted the first time I cleaned them, as per details here.
After cleaning with Stainless Cleaner (and re-passivising them) I've not noticed the problem, however it's something to be cautious of.


----------



## Wimmig

Wolfy said:


> I have two of those (same vendor), and the body-bolts on both rusted the first time I cleaned them, as per details here.
> After cleaning with Stainless Cleaner (and re-passivising them) I've not noticed the problem, however it's something to be cautious of.



Thank you very much. Looks like i might keep looking. Kicking myself i missed the aussie based ebay seller flogging 316 3pc for $25! Rats.


----------



## Florian

Craftbrewer has reduced their prices if I'm not mistaken:
http://craftbrewer.com/shop/details.asp?PID=1166

Thanks malted, will order one shortly, still looking for the best valve/camlock combo.


----------



## DeGarre

I bought the rubber seal thingy to keep the mesh to the top grill from Mark, tried it on and it is a very tight fit into the malt pipe. Without the seal the metal grill is able to move up and down when the pump is on/off but with the seal it looks like it will be stuck however far I push it into the pipe.

Is this how it is supposed to be ie the grill will not move and the wort will move through it when the pump is on?


----------



## Wimmig

DeGarre said:


> I bought the rubber seal thingy to keep the mesh to the top grill from Mark, tried it on and it is a very tight fit into the malt pipe. Without the seal the metal grill is able to move up and down when the pump is on/off but with the seal it looks like it will be stuck however far I push it into the pipe.
> 
> Is this how it is supposed to be ie the grill will not move and the wort will move through it when the pump is on?



I trimmed mine just a little to allow mico movement. I watch the BM cycle in on the pump, and can see the top filter & mesh with the rubber seal moving up and butting on the crossbar. Works fine, tight fit though i kept it just tight enough taking mm off at a time with a blade.


----------



## Wimmig

Florian said:


> Craftbrewer has reduced their prices if I'm not mistaken:
> http://craftbrewer.com/shop/details.asp?PID=1166
> 
> Thanks malted, will order one shortly, still looking for the best valve/camlock combo.



Looks the goods, if they did a combo price with a barb & tube i'd grab it now with some other things to make it worthwhile (even better if they stocked the header to correct the size). That's why i like some the US places, they do batch disounts. ie, buy valve, barb, bulkhead (if needed) & tube and get X discount. I like to keep it all with the same order to make it easy.


----------



## Malted

Wimmig said:


> Hmm i would like to change the tap on mine to something i am more used to...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-threaded-3-Pie...=item4163b8e6b5
> 
> Seems like the go. With the valve above, and the reduction fitting Malted will i be good to go?



I'd reckon so. Don't forget the thread tape. It is pretty much what is in the picture Florian reposted.

Like Wolfy said, he repassivated his stainless and it has been good since. Starsan is possibly good enough to passivate it with. Like Wolfy said, it doesn't have to be a deal breaker, just something to be aware of. CB valve looks the goods though.

Another thing, my BM is a 50L jobby. I know Florian has a 20L, I can't say for certain that the fittings on both the BM's are the same size. I'd imagine they would be but I haven't measured a 20L jobby.


----------



## Florian

Malted said:


> Another thing, my BM is a 50L jobby. I know Florian has a 20L, I can't say for certain that the fittings on both the BM's are the same size. I'd imagine they would be but I haven't measured a 20L jobby.



So I've just taken out the tap and measured the threat size, and it is exactly 1 inch. How can that be? 1 inch on the 20L and 3/4 inch on the 50L? Doesn't make any sense to me. 
Is the bore on the 50L also that small? 

Have just ordered that nipple last night, hope I measured wrong, but it doesn't look like it.


----------



## Malted

Florian said:


> So I've just taken out the tap and measured the threat size, and it is exactly 1 inch. How can that be? 1 inch on the 20L and 3/4 inch on the 50L? Doesn't make any sense to me.
> Is the bore on the 50L also that small?


*Fear not Flo*, the 50L jobby has the same sized fitting and original 'cock'  :



I think perhaps it is because it is a pipe thread, the inside diameter of such a pipe would be 3/4" not the actual thread size? 
Here is a picture of a 1/2" socket (or 12.7 mm in metric) for example. It would join two pipes that had an inside diameter of 1/2" and thus it needs to be bigger than them:

It is kind of silly because you would think that pipe wall thickness would have to be standardised. Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree (and Google didn't give me any answers) but it is the best theory I have. Maybe pipe theory is not really important since we just want to know "What could I use to put a 1/2" tap into my Braumeister?"

Here is a closeup of the reducing nipple (excuse the sawdust) I used and was pictured in previous images; this should calm your nerves:



Just to round it all off, for shits and giggles here is a picture of the orignal vs a 3-piece tap:


To anyone interested: note the very small bore of the original tap; this is why Braumeister users replace the original.


----------



## Florian

Malted said:


> *Fear not Flo*



Well, I did fear! And ordered a bush to go with the nipple...

Oh well, only $4 delivered, so not much lost. Am sure I'll find a use for it eventually, I think it might fit those Aldi randalls, meaning I can drink freshly hopped beer straight out of the 2 piece valve!
Also ordered some colder couplings, will post a pick up when it's all finished. 

Thanks for your help and your shot at explaining it Malted.

Edit: thinking about it, that randall idea is not too bad, might be a nice little party setup with the 2 or 3 piece tap, possibly a street elbow and a colder coupling.


----------



## Malted

Florian said:


> Well, I did fear! And ordered a bush to go with the nipple...
> Thanks for your help and your shot at explaining it Malted.



Bush... nipple - yep you have my interest. Post pictrures!
Seems like we learn from each other; it's a good thing. Thank you.
Keen to hear how you go with a Randal, mine foams a heck of a lot.


----------



## DeGarre

Wimmig said:


> I trimmed mine just a little to allow mico movement. I watch the BM cycle in on the pump, and can see the top filter & mesh with the rubber seal moving up and butting on the crossbar. Works fine, tight fit though i kept it just tight enough taking mm off at a time with a blade.



Thanks, the rubber seems to be so thin on the edge that I've decided not to risk cutting off the seal in half in multiple spots...  

Instead I will just jam the damn thing to such a level that the cross bar touches it ie the grill would not be able to go any higher even if it was able to go up and down.

Can't see why the top should be able to move with the wort - what purpose does that have?

So I'll risk it and will brew today, will report later how it goes. I can always pause and fix the grill should there be any "unexpected consequences"...


----------



## DeGarre

Mashing went fine, the rubber seal kept all the grain out of the wort except 2 or 3 that appeared from the center rod in the first few seconds in the beginning. There was no need for the grill and mesh to move up and down with the pump and wort. Got 84% mash efficiency without really sweating it. Happy days!

And thanks again to Mark for sending the seal.


----------



## ticinglese

Anyone noticed the discs that fit in the malt pipe warping over time? Done about a dozen brews and they are warped already.

Despite the wort being pretty clear during mashing and doing a 20min whirlpool after the boil I am getting a cloudy wort in the fermenter. Anyone else getting this? Only things I can think might cause it are the discs mentioned above or when I take the malt pipe out to sparge there is a massive vaccum. Oh and I buy malt ready crushed as I don't have a crusher yet.

TIP: Anyone looking to do big beers or even IPAs the only way is to mash and sparge with water at mash temp rather than mashout temp, then refil the malt pipe with more malt. Great efficiency, and prob only adds less than 2 hours to the brew day, and only 30 mins of that is actual work.


----------



## DeGarre

ticinglese said:


> Anyone noticed the discs that fit in the malt pipe warping over time? Done about a dozen brews and they are warped already.



The wire mesh? Sure, they're all wonky, that's why you tie it to the metal plate/grill on top.



ticinglese said:


> Despite the wort being pretty clear during mashing and doing a 20min whirlpool after the boil I am getting a cloudy wort in the fermenter. Anyone else getting this?



Not here.



ticinglese said:


> Only things I can think might cause it are the discs mentioned above



Don't think so.



ticinglese said:


> or when I take the malt pipe out to sparge there is a massive vaccum.



There is but after 23 brews it doesn't seem to affect the clarity of the wort.



ticinglese said:


> Oh and I buy malt ready crushed as I don't have a crusher yet.



Nice. Makes it easier...

WTF mate, get some Protafloc and stop worrying.


----------



## ticinglese

DeGarre said:


> The wire mesh? Sure, they're all wonky, that's why you tie it to the metal plate/grill on top.
> 
> No I mean the plates not the mesh


----------



## Wimmig

Shame CB don't have the reduction fitting / coupler i'm going to do an order and would prefer to order it all in 316 rather than dick around ordering a single bit from China.


----------



## Malted

Wimmig said:


> Shame CB don't have the reduction fitting / coupler i'm going to do an order and would prefer to order it all in 316 rather than dick around ordering a single bit from China.



Most on eBay from China are 306 but at 3 bucks or so with free postage it's pretty easy.


----------



## Wimmig

Malted said:


> Most on eBay from China are 306 but at 3 bucks or so with free postage it's pretty easy.



Yeah, they are cheap and easy for 3 odd bucks. Though, i would pay extra for a machined 316 unit instead, the cheapest i could find is around $25 delivered. I might check blackwoods first before getting a cheap one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-4-x-1-2-MPT-HEX-...=item2eb5c1b977


----------



## doon

Surely there is a plumbing store near you can get it from?


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

I am thinking of doing Ross's summer ale with the 50l malt pipe, but then halving off to do two different hop schedules.

Any reason why I couldn't sit 25l-30l of pre boil wort in a cube while I do the first batch?


----------



## Florian

As long as you start your second boil straight after the first one is finished you should be alright, that's about how long it takes on some systems to finish sparging, anyway.

your other option is to do a full boil with only bittering additions, no chill, then do separate stovetop boils (a la argonaise, search for it) once you're ready to pitch. Will give you two completely different beers fermented at at the same time or after each other.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Cheers. You've indrectly pointed out a much better option anyway - send half the wort to my old 30l urn and boil both at the same time.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

Last few brews the seal off my 50L malt pipe fall's off when I lift the pipe. I usually remove the pipe and sit it on a bucket to rinse the grain but without the seal the wort just spills over the lid of the braumeister. Really tricky to get the seal back on when the pipe is full. I tried a new seal but same problem. I haven't tried lub yet but looking for some ideas or if anyone else has had this problem?


----------



## Florian

Haven't had that happen yet, although the seal seems to fall off more easily with time. 

Only thing I could think of to possibly fix it is to stick some sort of fairly heat resistant masking tape or similar to the bottom of the malt pipe and then the seal over it, hoping that the seal might stay on better. Something along those lines is what I would try.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

Florian said:


> Haven't had that happen yet, although the seal seems to fall off more easily with time.
> 
> Only thing I could think of to possibly fix it is to stick some sort of fairly heat resistant masking tape or similar to the bottom of the malt pipe and then the seal over it, hoping that the seal might stay on better. Something along those lines is what I would try.


I wonder why it comes off over time? I haven't really cleaned in the groove maybe there is a layer inside it causing it to slip off? Although the new seal did the same so im a bit lost. It happens like every other brew.


----------



## Batz

Gav80 said:


> I wonder why it comes off over time? I haven't really cleaned in the groove maybe there is a layer inside it causing it to slip off? Although the new seal did the same so im a bit lost. It happens like every other brew.




I think rather than it slipping off, it is becoming stuck on the bottom and being pulled off when you lift the pipe. They can become a bit sticky, and wash in gentle detergent will fix it. 

Batz


----------



## zoigl

Did you check the electric elements, are they off centre? My seals came off a few times, but when I moved the elements apart and and made sure that the seal was not catching, I have not had a re-occurence of the problem. Hope this helps.


----------



## lylo

I got it!! BM 20L came this week!
Getting psyched up now! I really need to know what to expect for a boil off rate. I tried doing a search of the forum but returned waaay to many results/non results. I don't have my 220 wiring done yet to give the 20L a test run but would like to start planning the brewday.
Thanks
Lylo


----------



## dicko

Lyle, have a look at this video if you havent seen it already.
It has been uploaded by a member on here and is very informative.

Check his other two videos as well .... All of them are a good watch and have plenty of accurate info

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=rs4jaopcjsE&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Drs4jaopcjsE

Cheers


----------



## tiprya

I think I get approximately 1.4L per 30 minutes of boil. I have the jacket and boil outside, with a small amount of breeze.

That's what I base my calculations on anyway, and I get pretty close for volume.


----------



## lylo

Thanks guys, I have watched all the videos and read all of the forums known to man about th Braumeister. thas is part of the problem,I can't remember where I read anything, and between the 2-tablets,and 3-computers that I use I hav ebookmarks everywhere.
The general consensus regarding boil off rate seems to run from 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 liters per hr. depending on conditions.I will definetely
do a test run.
Thanks again to everyone.
lyle


----------



## tiprya

For your first brew, just assume at the high end of that (3.5L/hr) and if you get less than that, just dilute with water to your target OG.

I get spot on 86% mash efficiency every time with mine. My mill is set to 1.1mm from memory.

I tend to hit my pre-boil gravity perfectly every time, but have been missing my OG by a few points, so I'm tightening up my calulations relating to boil-off etc to try and get it honed in.


----------



## DeGarre

I currently use a hop spider and also tilt the BM forward in order to get almost all of the wort into the FV. I know Mark sells this dip / pick up tube which would solve the tilting "problem" but would it be possible to attach some kind of a wire mesh thingy to the tube to keep the hops away from the FV and to get rid off the spider?

I assume not every BM user uses hop bags and hop spiders - what would be the best way to keep the hops from the FV ?

Cheers


----------



## swiggingpig

DeGarre said:


> I currently use a hop spider and also tilt the BM forward in order to get almost all of the wort into the FV. I know Mark sells this dip / pick up tube which would solve the tilting "problem" but would it be possible to attach some kind of a wire mesh thingy to the tube to keep the hops away from the FV and to get rid off the spider?
> 
> I assume not every BM user uses hop bags and hop spiders - what would be the best way to keep the hops from the FV ?
> 
> Cheers


Hi, I use leaf hops and this is what I use on the end of one of Mark's dip tubes to filter the wort before it gets to my plate chiller.







I bought a sheet of mesh, cut off a section of the sheet and formed it round a 15mm copper pipe to make a straight tube. I removed the copper pipe replacing it with some PVC tubing so that I could bend a curve in it without kinking it, removed PVC tube, folded over the ends and made a hole in the side of it just big enough to insert the end of the pickup/dip tube.


----------



## lylo

Do you take all of your volume readings off of the lug at the bottom of the post?


----------



## DeGarre

1 cm per 1 litre on the rod is close enough for me, I just calculate the volume from the top down ie 11 cm rod above the surface is 40-11= 29L and I don't worry about the lug.


----------



## lylo

Thanks DeGarre,typical Aussie upside down logic.


----------



## mikk

I've brewed some pretty big beers in the last few months, & thought it may be of use to share the process & results with other 50L Braumeister users...

#1- Eisbock
OG 1.092
55L mash-in with 10kg grain.
mash schedule 10 min/38 deg, 60 min/ 68 deg
7L sparge at 68 deg

remove malt pipe, dump grain, refill with another 10kg grain, & mash at 68 deg for 60 min, mash out at 76 deg, 9L sparge.
120 min boil, end result of 48L of 1.092 wort.

#2 Imperial Stout
OG 1.097
53L mash-in with 10.3kg grain
mash-in 38 deg, 70 min at 68 deg
4L sparge at 68 deg

remove malt pipe, dump grain, refill with another 10.3kg grain, & mash at 68 deg for 70 min, mash out at 76 deg, 6.5L sparge.
boil length- pretty sure it was 90 min. (If not, then it was 120)
end result 42L of 1.097 wort

#3 Barley wine
OG 1.111
53L mash in with 10.3 kg grain
mash in 38 deg, 75 min at 65 deg, 4L sparge at 65 deg

remove malt pipe, dump grain, refill with another 10.3kg grain, & mash at 65 deg for 90 min, mash out at 76 deg, 4L sparge.
90 min boil
end result 40L wort at 1.101.
0.8kg dextrose & approx 0.6kg LDME added at end of boil gave final OG of 1.111

Pretty big numbers, with maybe about 80-90 mins added to the brew day length.
tips-
440g of pellet hops makes a REALLY big mess. Hops plugs/leaf for the final additions holds the whole mess together pretty well when draining.
Have some LDME on hand in case you don't reach your anticipated gravity
Have fun trying to get rid of shit-loads of spent grain!


----------



## tavas

Does anyone know if MHB is still selling the pickup tube for the Brau? I notice its no longer advertised on his website. i sent a message via the site but no response - he might be on holidays or something.


----------



## dicko

tavas said:


> i sent a message via the site but no response - he might be on holidays or something.


That's pretty funny..........

:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Dan Pratt

tavas said:


> Does anyone know if MHB is still selling the pickup tube for the Brau? I notice its no longer advertised on his website. i sent a message via the site but no response - he might be on holidays or something.


i woulod suggest that you call him on the landline. he is pretty busy making grain orders these days and wont get to the PC till later in the day id imagine.


----------



## smeller_dk

Has anybody tried to start the mash with 25l and then directly after placing the mesh screen, added the sparge water? This would flood the malt pipe during the mash but eliminate the sparge step to simplify the process. Ignoring that it might hurt the efficiency. 




wobbly said:


> 6. The max water level during the mash is 27lt otherwise the malt pipe gets flooded I assume he is talking about a situation where he has 5.5kg or greater grain in the malty pipe.


----------



## Natdene

How do you guys with the 50l go lifting the malt pipe? I like the 50L but I have a bad back, would I have to make a hoist to suit?. I currently BIAB and use a hoist


----------



## sillyboybrybry

Natdene said:


> How do you guys with the 50l go lifting the malt pipe? I like the 50L but I have a bad back, would I have to make a hoist to suit?. I currently BIAB and use a hoist


I bought a pulley system off ebay. I can lift the malt pipe out on my own just and I am a big boy but for the $13 for the pulley system I figured why bother with the hard work!
PS The weight isn't that bad it is the suction that is the killer.


----------



## Batz

I lifted the malt pipe myself the first few brews but quickly set up a pulley to do the work. It is hard the break the suction and I found I needed to stand over the BM to do it, too easy with the pulley hanging off my patio.

I have a 50lt BM. 

Interesting post Mikk, thanks for sharing that. 

batz


----------



## Natdene

Thanks Sillyboy and Batz so it will be a hoist/pulley system for me!


----------



## sillyboybrybry

the pulley i purchased


----------



## Natdene

OT - my BIAB hoist


----------



## sillyboybrybry

Natdene said:


> OT - my BIAB hoist


I think you are ready to not manually lift the malt pipe out of a 50l braumeister.


----------



## Malted

Batz said:


> I needed to stand over the BM to do it,
> 
> I have a 50lt BM.


This is how I do it. I have a built a sturdy big table that the BM is on, that I can stand on to lift the malt pipe, it is not ideal (when I swing the malt pipe down off the tabel) but it works, for now...
I really should do something with a pulley/gantry.


----------



## Malted

smeller_dk said:


> Has anybody tried to start the mash with 25l and then directly after placing the mesh screen, added the sparge water? This would flood the malt pipe during the mash but eliminate the sparge step to simplify the process. Ignoring that it might hurt the efficiency.


Yes I did pretty much what you are describing.
I did this with my 50L. After placing the top screen and getting it going I added more water until it came up to almost the top of the malt pipe. During pump rests the total fluid level would be over the top of the malt pipe. I still sparged though as I had about 16.6kg of grain in the malt pipe. I had to add the grain a bit at a time with stirring between each. Mash schedule was 50/30, 62/45, 65/60, 68/30, 70/15, 74/10. I set the mash-in at 50 and put it in manual mode for 30 minutes after I mashed in; I then started the 5 step cycle.

The reason I added so much water was to increase the water to grist ratio due to the large amount of grain. However, this may not work as such due to the grain being confined to a certain space; additional water does not actually loosen the grain bed when it is in a confined space. I also thought* to myself that sugars seem to move into solution more readily at lower gravities (vs super high gravity) and I wanted as many sugars as I could extract, so I added as much water as I could. It was also for the reason of shits and giggles. 

*Might not be a valid thought.

The pumps struggled to push through this much grain and the sparge didn't really want to pass through either so I had to stir the top level of the grist to get the sparge to drain through. I had set my efficiency at 70% and thought this was a bit adventurous given I was aiming for 55L into the fermenter at 1.076. However, I achieved 1.080 at 84% brewhouse efficiency and was pretty stoked with that. I don't recall the sparge volume and it was a long boil but that didn't matter as there were no hops in it (it was a 'wash'). Whilst it was successful and I did not get scorching due to the slower recirculation, I am not sure I would want to follow this process again as there seems to be other methods that are a bit easier on the machine.


In regards, to lifting the malt pipe well this brew was about 16.6 kg of grain with 16.6kg of absorbed water plus the weight of the maltpipe etc and the handle so I was lifting >36kg _after _the suction broke.


----------



## DeGarre

Interesting. So when you had the malt pipe under water/wort the grain stayed nicely inside the pipe and didn't flood outside it?


----------



## Malted

DeGarre said:


> Interesting. So when you had the malt pipe under water/wort the grain stayed nicely inside the pipe and didn't flood outside it?


Generally yes as it did not pass through the filter plate and filter screen anymore than it would normally. The water level was only above the malt pipe when the pumps were in the pump rest (i.e. not operating). I should not think they would 'float out' any more rapidly than if they were pumped out. It may have realeased a bit more smaller particles such as flour etc in the grist but this is not logical as it should be trapped in the grist - it is probably more a function of the type of grist; I think the peated barley left a bit of oily/greasy residue but whether it was this, my crush parameters or the unusually high volume of grains that led to a cloudier wort than usual is speculation.


----------



## DeGarre

I was just curious because with my 20L unit I once mashed with 28L (usually with 26L) and rinsed with 4L (usually with 6L) and about 5cm of the bottom of the pipe were under wort level (after a bit of rinsing) and when I lifted the malt pipe the suction or something caused the grains to flood out from the pipe from the bottom, which had never happened before, or since.


----------



## ticinglese

DeGarre said:


> I was just curious because with my 20L unit I once mashed with 28L (usually with 26L) and rinsed with 4L (usually with 6L) and about 5cm of the bottom of the pipe were under wort level (after a bit of rinsing) and when I lifted the malt pipe the suction or something caused the grains to flood out from the pipe from the bottom, which had never happened before, or since.


that suction issue happens to me a fair bit, not sure why either - lift too soon? lift too quick? etc.


----------



## Malted

Ah I see what you fellows are saying, grain getting sucked out the bottom. DeGarre - I thought you meant the grain floating out the top when the liquid level was over the top of the top filter plate, this is what I was talking about.

It sounds like a fairly reasonable proposition that when lifting the malt pipe some grains might get sucked past the bottom filter plate due to the suction.
So when you first lift the malt pipe, I'd think most of the smaller particles are up in the grist and don't get sucked out when you initially lift the malt pipe but after sparging perhaps they have migrated a little towards the bottom filter plate and the additional lift out of the wort (when in this situation it covers the bottom of the malt pipe) it is enough to draw them out past the bottom filter plate. Maybe it is just that it has had two suction events?
Sounds plausible but I would not have thought there would be a significant amount of grains escaping.
I usually have a few grains in the wort that find their way out but it doesn't seem to worry anything.


----------



## Matty3450

Hi all, 

I bought a 50 ltr braumeister last week yet to use it hopefully my sparky mate can wire my power point im very excited to give it a run. Anyway ive just got a couple of questions. Can I dough in before work and set it in motion? Will the machine maintain mashout temperature? Is the alarm very loud don't want to annoy the neighbors too much ha ha. Are there any issues with grain sitting at mashout for a few hours whilst I work


----------



## sillyboybrybry

The alarm is not loud at all and I think it will sit at mashout indefinitely but I do not know if you really want it sitting at mashout for that long?


----------



## Matty3450

Thanks for the reply


----------



## Kranky

I'd share the same concern as Sillyboy, letting it rest at mashout for so long. You might be better off setting the first step at whatever temperature the water is for 5 or 6 hours, then key your normal mash temps. 

Having said that last week I went out while the mash was on and came home to find I had my first wort fountain and about 15l of wort on the floor (I played with my mill). It might be a good idea to be around for your first few brews.


----------



## Matty3450

Thanks I'll definitely be around for most brews just looking at what options are out there


----------



## ravinglooneee

I would recommend hanging around for the first few brews - at least until you work out exactly how long the temp raises through the steps.


----------



## Florian

I regularly do 4 hour mash outs, beers turn out beautifully. No concerns from me, but YMMV.

If you want a long mash out then set the mash step accordingly, _I think_ the element turns off at the end of the mash cycle, but not 100% sure on that. 

EDIT: bryneee, pm me your mobile number, mate.


----------



## Batz

I finally got around to fitting wheels to my BM stand, makes life a whole lot easier.


----------



## dicko

Batz said:


> I finally got around to fitting wheels to my BM stand, makes life a whole lot easier.


Did you leave your trolley at the original height or did you cut it down?
I cut mine down to make it easy to lift the malt pipe without having to stand on a milk crate!

The wheels are the best thing I have done on mine..

Cheers


----------



## Batz

dicko said:


> Did you leave your trolley at the original height or did you cut it down?
> I cut mine down to make it easy to lift the malt pipe without having to stand on a milk crate!
> 
> The wheels are the best thing I have done on mine..
> 
> Cheers



Cut them down Dicko, they may need a bit more off again as the wheels have lifted it again.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

mikk said:


> I've brewed some pretty big beers in the last few months, & thought it may be of use to share the process & results with other 50L Braumeister users...
> 
> #1- Eisbock
> OG 1.092
> 55L mash-in with 10kg grain.
> mash schedule 10 min/38 deg, 60 min/ 68 deg
> 7L sparge at 68 deg
> 
> remove malt pipe, dump grain, refill with another 10kg grain, & mash at 68 deg for 60 min, mash out at 76 deg, 9L sparge.
> 120 min boil, end result of 48L of 1.092 wort.
> 
> #2 Imperial Stout
> OG 1.097
> 53L mash-in with 10.3kg grain
> mash-in 38 deg, 70 min at 68 deg
> 4L sparge at 68 deg
> 
> remove malt pipe, dump grain, refill with another 10.3kg grain, & mash at 68 deg for 70 min, mash out at 76 deg, 6.5L sparge.
> boil length- pretty sure it was 90 min. (If not, then it was 120)
> end result 42L of 1.097 wort
> 
> #3 Barley wine
> OG 1.111
> 53L mash in with 10.3 kg grain
> mash in 38 deg, 75 min at 65 deg, 4L sparge at 65 deg
> 
> remove malt pipe, dump grain, refill with another 10.3kg grain, & mash at 65 deg for 90 min, mash out at 76 deg, 4L sparge.
> 90 min boil
> end result 40L wort at 1.101.
> 0.8kg dextrose & approx 0.6kg LDME added at end of boil gave final OG of 1.111
> 
> Pretty big numbers, with maybe about 80-90 mins added to the brew day length.
> tips-
> 440g of pellet hops makes a REALLY big mess. Hops plugs/leaf for the final additions holds the whole mess together pretty well when draining.
> Have some LDME on hand in case you don't reach your anticipated gravity
> Have fun trying to get rid of shit-loads of spent grain!


Am I missing something here? 

By my calculations every "final volume" Mikk has is about 10L off. 10L to much that is. Assuming he's boiling off 6-7L per hour. 

i.e.
For the first recipe:

#1- Eisbock
OG 1.092
55L mash-in with 10kg grain.
mash schedule 10 min/38 deg, 60 min/ 68 deg
7L sparge at 68 deg

_55L - 10=45L (10kg of grain soak up 10L of water)_
_45 + 7=52L (7L sparge)_

remove malt pipe, dump grain, refill with another 10kg grain, & mash at 68 deg for 60 min, mash out at 76 deg, 9L sparge.
120 min boil, end result of 48L of 1.092 wort.

_52L-10=42L_
_42 + 9=51L_
_boil length 120min will be 14L (assuming 7L/hr boil off)_
_51-14=37L_
_Finished volume is 37L???_

_OR am i missing something here? _


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Gav80 said:


> _OR am i missing something here? _


Are you measuring from the tie rods? I have found that the rods measure 5l more than the manual suggests, maybe to help intro brewers not have to think about loss to trub?

Also, my loss is around 5.5l/h not 7.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

The tie rod marks are correct mate. Your probably not taking into account thermal expansion which I've found to be 2-3 litters at 100 degrees C. I alway go for 45l after boil volume and get 42 into fermentor. 
Even calculating 5 L boil of per hour Mikk still is out by my calcs.


----------



## mikk

Eisbock- 55L 1st mash in, then 7L sparge. Volume for the 2nd mash-in was also 55L, suggesting that the grain only soaked up a total of 7L.

As per the 1st mash-in, the 2nd lot of grain also only soaked up 7L of water.

My boil-off rate is a bit less than 6L per hour.

So, with an extra 6L not lost to the grain, & with an extra few litres not lost during the boil, that will account for 8-9L of the discrepancy. As others have suggested, our tie rod markings may also be out a little bit. I've never actually bothered to check mine.

Query resolved?!


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

mikk said:


> As others have suggested, our tie rod markings may also be out a little bit. I've never actually bothered to check mine.
> 
> Query resolved?!


I'd posted in another thread asking other owners to check. I'd be interested to see your results. I've firsthand seen two BMs holding 5l more than the rod suggests. If you measure 20l in to your 50l BM, I suspect you'll see the line at the 15l tie rod.


----------



## Dan Pratt

hi,

on a seprate BM question - how do you guys clean the internal area of the kettle??

Mine has this brown staining in the lower section of the kettle that could be removed with steel wool with a little scrubbing, would that be ok?

Dan


----------



## Florian

Add some PBW (or sod Perc) and water to the vessel and heat to 70 degrees, leave for an hour or even less.

Will make it look like brand new.


----------



## Kranky

Florian said:


> Add some PBW (or sod Perc) and water to the vessel and heat to 70 degrees, leave for an hour or even less.
> 
> Will make it look like brand new.


Don't forget to run the pump when you do this.


----------



## Batz

Don't use steel wool!

It will ruin your stainless steel and promote rust. See Florian's post above, I do this every few brews to keep it sparkling.

Batz


----------



## Florian

Kranky said:


> Don't forget to run the pump when you do this.


Yep, always, that's just so obvious to me that I didn't think of pointing it out, although I should have. 

So thanks for pointing it out.

EDIT: Added quote


----------



## Dan Pratt

righto - so 20 litres of water and sodium perc, pump on and heat to 70c, run for up to an hour....  cheers

when its on manual heat mode can i set the temp?


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Pratty1 said:


> when its on manual heat mode can i set the temp?


You can. Similar to setting recipes.

I've not used steel wool, but even the edge of my chiller or the upside down malt pipe have done their fair share of scratching during cleaning.

Also a big no no - Caustic Soda. Should be fine...stainles....oh wait...the pump housing are brass....


----------



## Florian

Pratty1 said:


> righto - so 20 litres of water and sodium perc, pump on and heat to 70c, run for up to an hour....  cheers
> 
> when its on manual heat mode can i set the temp?


Yes, you can, pump runs up to 90 degrees or so.

Also, I often only fill just above the elements and use a plastic bristle brush from the kitchen to clean the rest.

I don't care as much anymore how clean it looks from the inside, it's more the elements I want cleaned.

But it does look just gorgeous when the whole vessel is sparkling and shiny. :icon_drool2:

EDIT: One day I will learn to quote right from the start...


----------



## Thefatdoghead

7 litters lost to 10kg of grain. Ill lose 1 litter per kg of grain. We have the same machine don't we?


----------



## Florian

But maybe not the same grain. Also depends on how long you drain the malt pipe.


----------



## mikk

Gav80 said:


> 7 litters lost to 10kg of grain. Ill lose 1 litter per kg of grain. We have the same machine don't we?


I'm not trying to trick you. I take detailed notes, & that's what I've recorded.

I usually get my grain from MHB. If you think you're getting a good crush on a mill at home, or from the mill at your LHBS, think again. MHB's mill is the shit, & unless you're prepared to spend $10k on a similar machine, that may well account for a lot of the difference in water retention.

As florian has suggested, draining time is a big player too. Leaving the malt pipe over a bowl to drain til near the end of the boil will always result in at least a litre or 2 to add back.

We have the same machine, of course, but that's no guarantee that we will make the same beer, or in the same way. Half the fun is trying new things each time & finding what works best for you. Mash temp, mash time, sparging technique, sparge temp, mash agitation, grain type, grain crush, water chemistry etc add so many variables that there will always be differences between BM users.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

mikk said:


> I'm not trying to trick you. I take detailed notes, & that's what I've recorded.
> 
> I usually get my grain from MHB. If you think you're getting a good crush on a mill at home, or from the mill at your LHBS, think again. MHB's mill is the shit, & unless you're prepared to spend $10k on a similar machine, that may well account for a lot of the difference in water retention.
> 
> As florian has suggested, draining time is a big player too. Leaving the malt pipe over a bowl to drain til near the end of the boil will always result in at least a litre or 2 to add back.
> 
> We have the same machine, of course, but that's no guarantee that we will make the same beer, or in the same way. Half the fun is trying new things each time & finding what works best for you. Mash temp, mash time, sparging technique, sparge temp, mash agitation, grain type, grain crush, water chemistry etc add so many variables that there will always be differences between BM users.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

mikk said:


> I'm not trying to trick you. I take detailed notes, & that's what I've recorded.
> 
> I usually get my grain from MHB. If you think you're getting a good crush on a mill at home, or from the mill at your LHBS, think again. MHB's mill is the shit, & unless you're prepared to spend $10k on a similar machine, that may well account for a lot of the difference in water retention.
> 
> As florian has suggested, draining time is a big player too. Leaving the malt pipe over a bowl to drain til near the end of the boil will always result in at least a litre or 2 to add back.
> 
> We have the same machine, of course, but that's no guarantee that we will make the same beer, or in the same way. Half the fun is trying new things each time & finding what works best for you. Mash temp, mash time, sparging technique, sparge temp, mash agitation, grain type, grain crush, water chemistry etc add so many variables that there will always be differences between BM users.


I realize your not trying to trick anyone I'm just trying to get my head around how different the absorption rate is. I do let my grain sit over a bucket for the whole boil after sparging and I seem to get maybe another litter out of the spent grain. So grain and grain crush does make a huge difference in absorption rates. 
I use a crankenstein 3 roller mill but can't remember the crush. Might try order some off Mark and see what I get. Ide love to not have to sparge those 3 extra litters. Thanks for the info.


----------



## stakka82

For the record, No tip, at ambient temp my tie markings are 5 litres out also, I figure it must be to account for deadspace.


----------



## pmunny

Leaving the malt pipe over a bowl to drain til near the end of the boil will always result in at least a litre or 2 to add back.

Could this not bring on infections?


----------



## Dan Pratt

Today I tried to do a DOUBLE batch with my 20 Litre BM - run 2 malt bills to make a big beer.

Had 8.3kg of malt and was aiming for a 1090 beer. ( set beer smith at 75%, actaully hit 65% and should have used another kg of malt to get target )

Set the BM to mash in at 20c and then run for 60 mins @ 65 and then 75 mins @ 67 with the second lot of malt.

After the 65c rest, I paused and pulled the pipe, sparged with 4 litres (2 x 2 litres) over about 30 mins and the washed up and re-loaded the malt pipe.

I pretty much split the grain bill into 2 x 4.15 kg lots ( next time 2 x 5kg for a bigger beer, but this was the first attempt )

When the 67c rest for 75 mins was done it went on for a 72c/10 and mash out at 76c for 15 mins, pulled malt pipe and sparged for 45 mins.

My preboil Gravity was bang on for Beersmith 2.0 at 1.068, wasnt sure how the 105min boil ( dont ask ) would get me to 1.090.......

got my target 20lt into FV but fell short and made 1.078, which in turn increased my hops by 8ibu :lol:

Something interesting that nearly seen me lose my sh*t......oh and the beer.........when it came time to transfer from the BM to the FV......the white sleeve on the BM tap turned when I turned the tap and the wort would NOT come out the tap....WTF, I mean seriously WTF???..........at first I thought the hops had clogged the hole ( 195g of hops on an Imperial IPA ) after a mental fuse went of I calmed down and tried to get the beer out of the BM - this required undoing the tap with one hand, holding the FV in the other and wooshca - flowing wort streaming into the FV, with about 500mls of wort/hops debris onto the ground etc etc.....FM. h34r:

time to upgrade to a 1/2inch ball valve.


----------



## Florian

You could've gotten there easier, Pratty.

I got a whole cube of 1.094 wort yesterday. There were 800g of dark brown sugar in there, take that out and you're at 1.080, but with a single mash, and closer to 22L in the cube as well. 

6.8kg of grain, 3.7kg of that wheat, no rice hulls, no problems.

Mash in at 15, then 44/20, 54/15, 63/8, 71/60, 77/15.


----------



## stakka82

Pratty1 said:


> Something interesting that nearly seen me lose my sh*t......oh and the beer.........when it came time to transfer from the BM to the FV......the white sleeve on the BM tap turned when I turned the tap and the wort would NOT come out the tap....WTF, I mean seriously WTF???..........at first I thought the hops had clogged the hole ( 195g of hops on an Imperial IPA ) after a mental fuse went of I calmed down and tried to get the beer out of the BM - this required undoing the tap with one hand, holding the FV in the other and wooshca - flowing wort streaming into the FV, with about 500mls of wort/hops debris onto the ground etc etc.....FM. h34r:
> 
> time to upgrade to a 1/2inch ball valve.


I had this happen the other day when cleaning and thank god only had about 10 litres of water in the BM.

The poor design of that tap is the only thing I don't like about the BM. I'm going to get parts for a new tap on friday, no way am I going to risk that happening on brew day, and no ******* way with 50l of wort.

Has anyone replaced the tap on a 50l? I think the female thread is bigger than the 20l and I have no idea what parts to get cause I am absolutely hopeless at plumbing/building stuff.


----------



## Dan Pratt

stakka82 said:


> I had this happen the other day when cleaning and thank god only had about 10 litres of water in the BM.
> 
> The poor design of that tap is the only thing I don't like about the BM. I'm going to get parts for a new tap on friday, no way am I going to risk that happening on brew day, and no ******* way with 50l of wort.
> 
> Has anyone replaced the tap on a 50l? I think the female thread is bigger than the 20l and I have no idea what parts to get cause I am absolutely hopeless at plumbing/building stuff.


Im going to take the tap into the LHBS were i bough the rig and so hopefully that relays back to Germany and they stop using the white sleeve and come up with a better tap with a bigger hole.

Im not sure of the actual thread size but Im sure that the 20 and 50's are the same?


----------



## Dan Pratt

Florian said:


> You could've gotten there easier, Pratty.
> 
> I got a whole cube of 1.094 wort yesterday. There were 800g of dark brown sugar in there, take that out and you're at 1.080, but with a single mash, and closer to 22L in the cube as well.
> 
> 6.8kg of grain, 3.7kg of that wheat, no rice hulls, no problems.
> 
> Mash in at 15, then 44/20, 54/15, 63/8, 71/60, 77/15.


Florian you legend B)

Ive been planning a 7kg Challenge on the 20 lt BM to see how it would cope.......you have clearly made a big beer with a simple sugar addition. Im not one for using sugars but if I can get 1080 out of 7kg of malt then Im in the Imperial IPA range and if need be can make that sugar addition for higher, without a double mash. The double mash made it a 9 hrs brew day

Double mash = double sparging which always takes about 90mins to 2hrs on brew day..could probably do it quicker but
when ever i have i missed the target OG.

Can you tell me what was your starting volume in the BM, Sparge Vol and Method and Boil Length?

WIth 5.5kg i normally start with 27 ltrs, sparge 8litres ( 4 x 2ltrs or 3 x 2.7 ) and boil for 90 mins - getting 22 litres in the FV


----------



## dicko

Gav80 said:


> I realize your not trying to trick anyone I'm just trying to get my head around how different the absorption rate is. I do let my grain sit over a bucket for the whole boil after sparging and I seem to get maybe another litter out of the spent grain. So grain and grain crush does make a huge difference in absorption rates.
> I use a crankenstein 3 roller mill but can't remember the crush. Might try order some off Mark and see what I get. Ide love to not have to sparge those 3 extra litters. Thanks for the info.


Hi Gav80,

I have a 20 litre unit and I find I am getting grain absorption figures similar or even a bit less than what mikk is quoting.

When I was setting my unit up in Beersmith I was having trouble so I measured everything as I went over 5 or 6 brews to find where that extra wort came from.

I have a 3 roller Crankenstein mill and I have set my gap to 1.4mm and with this I get an efficiency at the mash of 77% on a 1050 beer.

I found in Beersmith by selecting BIAB Mash with a full boil in the Mash Profile window rather than selecting the Sparge Options it corrected the total water amount to reflect the true grain absorption rate.(in my system)

I then went into Beersmith - tools - options - advanced - and fine tuned the grain absorption to suit my system. It is set by default on BIAB at 0.586 and 0.960 on the standard grain absorption setting. Anyone choosing to do this can set this figure to accurately represent their own brewery figures.

I am almost sure it has everything to do with the crush as I have spoken to other users of BM's and some are not reporting this descrepancy :unsure:
I have also noticed a very slight difference when I used Marris Otter malt compared to Wyermanns Pils but not enough to worry me. I guess it is the difference in the husk in this case.

Cheers


----------



## Florian

Pratty1 said:


> Florian you legend B)


I know, right? :lol: :lol:

My starting volume is always 25L (after experimentation with all sorts of other volumes years ago).

I usually sparge with just above 8L (one Aldi urn full), but this time sparged with 12L to up my efficiency. 
I sparge 1L at a time from a jug, pouring it slooowly over the grain bed (I don't remove any of the filter plates), and usually wait a minute or so until I pour the next jug. I sometimes let it rest for a while between jugs while I do other stuff. Obviously I'm ramping up to boil during sparging. I'm due to build myself some sort of fancy automatic fly sparge arm so i don't have to attend anymore while sparging. 

I boiled in manual mode until I hit my desired pre boil gravity (based on my 'normal' beersmith configuration), from memory close to an hour, YMMV, then started the 60 minute timer with hop additions etc. 

Was a little bit more mucking around than usual due to extra sparge volume and extended boil, but not much really.


----------



## tallie

stakka82 said:


> Has anyone replaced the tap on a 50l? I think the female thread is bigger than the 20l and I have no idea what parts to get cause I am absolutely hopeless at plumbing/building stuff.


Yep, did it a few brews ago, and haven't looked back! I haven't had the aforementioned blockage problem, but was having issues with the o-ring breaking up on the standard tap, and it was also slow to drain. Now that I've got my old 1/2" ball valve fitting on, it flies out!

I bought the reducing bush from Craftbrewer. I'm not sure if it's on their website yet, but call/email them and they'll set you straight. With that bush, your old ball valve, and a bit of thread tape, you're good to go! The next thing on my list is to work out how to incorporate a pickup tube into the mix <_<


----------



## Florian

tallie said:


> The next thing on my list is to work out how to incorporate a pickup tube into the mix <_<


Shouldn't be too hard, Kris, MHB used to supply a bent piece of copper or stainless that looked pretty home made. There are pictures floating around here somehwere.

I haven't got around to it either but will be interested to see what you come up with.


----------



## tallie

While we're on tips & tricks, recently I picked up half a dozen stainless washers that fit the centre tie-rod. The idea being that instead of putting the final coarse filter in the right way up and have it pushed all the way down by the spacer that's welded on, I invert the filter and use the washers as a smaller spacer. This gives me an extra 15-20mm depth in the malt pipe, while still positioning the filter in the parallel part of the malt pipe (albeit, a bit higher up). I've only just started doing it, so I'm not sure if/how it's affected the end product, but I haven't noticed any difference to how little grain matter is lost from the filter, so I don't expect any difference.

Another thing I've done, which seems particularly useful for brewing with the short malt pipe in the 50L BM, is cut the bottom out of a Bunnings plastic tub (one of these, although I can't remember the exact size) and sit it in the BM when filling the malt pipe. Due to the size and shape, it just fits into the top of the malt pipe, sealing off the sides so that you don't spill grain out of the pipe while doughing in.


----------



## Rurik

Florian said:


> Shouldn't be too hard, Kris, MHB used to supply a bent piece of copper or stainless that looked pretty home made. There are pictures floating around here somehwere.
> 
> I haven't got around to it either but will be interested to see what you come up with.



I got one of the Stainless steel ones that MHB makes. Does the job like a boss. Give him a call and see if he has one would be the simplest way.


----------



## tallie

Florian said:


> Shouldn't be too hard, Kris, MHB used to supply a bent piece of copper or stainless that looked pretty home made. There are pictures floating around here somehwere.
> 
> I haven't got around to it either but will be interested to see what you come up with.


Yeah, I've seen that one. I'll have to get on to it...


----------



## Florian

tallie said:


> While we're on tips & tricks, recently I picked up half a dozen stainless washers that fit the centre tie-rod. The idea being that instead of putting the final coarse filter in the right way up and have it pushed all the way down by the spacer that's welded on, I invert the filter and use the washers as a smaller spacer. This gives me an extra 15-20mm depth in the malt pipe, while still positioning the filter in the parallel part of the malt pipe (albeit, a bit higher up). I've only just started doing it, so I'm not sure if/how it's affected the end product, but I haven't noticed any difference to how little grain matter is lost from the filter, so I don't expect any difference.
> 
> Another thing I've done, which seems particularly useful for brewing with the short malt pipe in the 50L BM, is cut the bottom out of a Bunnings plastic tub (one of these, although I can't remember the exact size) and sit it in the BM when filling the malt pipe. Due to the size and shape, it just fits into the top of the malt pipe, sealing off the sides so that you don't spill grain out of the pipe while doughing in.


Love both of those ideas, genius!
Always pays to gain that little bit of extra space in the malt pipe.

I use those containers you linked for growing hops (the 60L ones in white, drilled a few drainage holes). Even the smallest ones will be too large for the 20L, but I'll find something else that will fit.

Thanks for sharing!


Rurik, I might just do that if I get stuck, Mark was already kind enough to supply me with his home made fabric filters for nix.


----------



## QldKev

Batz said:


> I finally got around to fitting wheels to my BM stand, makes life a whole lot easier.



Almost got all the gear to build yourself a 3V there :lol:


----------



## tallie

The only caveat** to inverting the top filter is that it makes it difficult to remove individually. I use a nail to poke through one of the holes and use it as a lever to lift it up. If you only remove the filter to dump the grain though, you can just let it slide out with the grain.

Edit: ** that I'm aware of


----------



## tallie

Florian said:


> I boiled in manual mode until I hit my desired pre boil gravity (based on my 'normal' beersmith configuration), from memory close to an hour, YMMV, then started the 60 minute timer with hop additions etc.


When you say "started the 60 minute timer with hop additions", do you mean the BM's timer? If so, how do you interrupt the program, switch to manual mode, then resume? Or do you abort, run in manual mode, then re-program with 0-minute mash steps?


----------



## Florian

Sorry, should have been clearer. I meant my Aldi kitchen timer, stayed in Manual...

I did what you described last a few times, but it's not worth the hassle of reprogramming everything and going through all the beeps to be honest.

Hey, there's another thing Speidel should integrate in their 'next' software upgrade, along heaps of other things like more mash steps, longer mash steps and the ability to save a number of mash profiles.


----------



## beerbog

Florian said:


> You could've gotten there easier, Pratty.
> 
> I got a whole cube of 1.094 wort yesterday. There were 800g of dark brown sugar in there, take that out and you're at 1.080, but with a single mash, and closer to 22L in the cube as well.
> 
> 6.8kg of grain, 3.7kg of that wheat, no rice hulls, no problems.
> 
> Mash in at 15, then 44/20, 54/15, 63/8, 71/60, 77/15.


Florian, are you putting in 6.8kg of grain into 25L? How does it fit? I've only ever done 5.5 with 27 and it's nearly brimming. Thanks.


----------



## Florian

Gibbo1 said:


> Florian, are you putting in 6.8kg of grain into 25L? How does it fit? I've only ever done 5.5 with 27 and it's nearly brimming. Thanks.


Yep, 6.8kg in 25L. It just fits, what else can I say? Have done it a few times now, always heaps of wheat. Could probably squeeze 500g or so more in but haven't tried that yet, and with Tallie's filter plate flip trick probably even more. My instructions say 4.5 - 5kg max, but obviously they got it wrong...

My BM is about three years old, I know they've changed parts of the software since (reduced max rest time from 255 to 180 as an example) and the pumps, but wouldn't think they'd changed the physique of the malt pipe. Just give it a try.


----------



## tallie

Florian said:


> Sorry, should have been clearer. I meant my Aldi kitchen timer, stayed in Manual...
> 
> I did what you described last a few times, but it's not worth the hassle of reprogramming everything and going through all the beeps to be honest.
> 
> Hey, there's another thing Speidel should integrate in their 'next' software upgrade, along heaps of other things like more mash steps, longer mash steps and the ability to save a number of mash profiles.


Ah, that makes sense. Yeah, it would be good to be able to switch to adjust the program half way through, especially when you're breaking it in. More kettle addition timers too


----------



## cliffo

tallie said:


> The next thing on my list is to work out how to incorporate a pickup tube into the mix <_<


I made a very simple pick up tube from a copper elbow and two pieces of heavy duty silicon hose jammed on to each end. The silicon hose has the perfect outside diameter to wedge it into outlet on the BM50 for an air tight fit and the internal diameter is a nice, snug fit over the elbow.

Cut the hose to the desired length and you have yourself a pickup tube.


----------



## DeGarre

Pratty1 said:


> ...
> Something interesting that nearly seen me lose my sh*t......oh and the beer.........when it came time to transfer from the BM to the FV......the white sleeve on the BM tap turned when I turned the tap and the wort would NOT come out the tap....WTF, I mean seriously WTF???..........at first I thought the hops had clogged the hole ( 195g of hops on an Imperial IPA ) after a mental fuse went of I calmed down and tried to get the beer out of the BM - this required undoing the tap with one hand, holding the FV in the other and wooshca - flowing wort streaming into the FV, with about 500mls of wort/hops debris onto the ground etc etc.....FM. h34r:
> 
> time to upgrade to a 1/2inch ball valve.


Apparently Speidel has changed the design in which the white sleeve can't move at all, there were some photos of it on another website somewhere, some people had the same problem as you and were sent replacement taps.

edit: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/speidel-braumeister-brewmaster-229225/index203.html

post #2029


----------



## Thefatdoghead

dicko said:


> Hi Gav80,
> 
> I have a 20 litre unit and I find I am getting grain absorption figures similar or even a bit less than what mikk is quoting.
> 
> When I was setting my unit up in Beersmith I was having trouble so I measured everything as I went over 5 or 6 brews to find where that extra wort came from.
> 
> I have a 3 roller Crankenstein mill and I have set my gap to 1.4mm and with this I get an efficiency at the mash of 77% on a 1050 beer.
> 
> I found in Beersmith by selecting BIAB Mash with a full boil in the Mash Profile window rather than selecting the Sparge Options it corrected the total water amount to reflect the true grain absorption rate.(in my system)
> 
> I then went into Beersmith - tools - options - advanced - and fine tuned the grain absorption to suit my system. It is set by default on BIAB at 0.586 and 0.960 on the standard grain absorption setting. Anyone choosing to do this can set this figure to accurately represent their own brewery figures.
> 
> I am almost sure it has everything to do with the crush as I have spoken to other users of BM's and some are not reporting this descrepancy :unsure:
> I have also noticed a very slight difference when I used Marris Otter malt compared to Wyermanns Pils but not enough to worry me. I guess it is the difference in the husk in this case.
> 
> Cheers


G'day Dicko,

Thanks for the info mate. I will try a new crush and measure all my volumes accurately and then see where I'm at. 
Cheers


----------



## Dan Pratt

I boiled in manual mode until I hit my desired pre boil gravity (based on my 'normal' beersmith configuration), from memory close to an hour, YMMV, then started the 60 minute timer with hop additions etc. 




Hi Florian,

I just re-read the post and you boil for an hr to get pre-boil gravity - then boil for another hr = 2 hrs boil......

Shouldnt the preboil gravity be....well, pre-boil? I sparge 2.5 litres x 3 or 2ltrs x 4 but for 20 mins each, my sparge usually takes at least an hr and i have to pause the kettle from getting to boil, this gets me my preboil gravity or within a couple of points each brew.

What is your efficiency at if you have to boil for an hour to get preboil gravity? or is it that you sparge to fast?

( my take on sparging is, slow and long....eg 1lt = 10 mins, otherwise it just drains through and lite on the sugers..... when its only drip dripping, is when the sugars are there...  )


----------



## Rurik

Pratty1 said:


> I boiled in manual mode until I hit my desired pre boil gravity (based on my 'normal' beersmith configuration), from memory close to an hour, YMMV, then started the 60 minute timer with hop additions etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Florian,
> 
> I just re-read the post and you boil for an hr to get pre-boil gravity - then boil for another hr = 2 hrs boil......
> 
> Shouldnt the preboil gravity be....well, pre-boil? I sparge 2.5 litres x 3 or 2ltrs x 4 but for 20 mins each, my sparge usually takes at least an hr and i have to pause the kettle from getting to boil, this gets me my preboil gravity or within a couple of points each brew.
> 
> What is your efficiency at if you have to boil for an hour to get preboil gravity? or is it that you sparge to fast?
> 
> ( my take on sparging is, slow and long....eg 1lt = 10 mins, otherwise it just drains through and lite on the sugers..... when its only drip dripping, is when the sugars are there...  )




Do you know how the BM works? You don't control the sparg in fact I don't think what most people call a sparg in a BM is a sparg at all but more of a wash.


----------



## tavas

stakka82 said:


> I had this happen the other day when cleaning and thank god only had about 10 litres of water in the BM.
> 
> The poor design of that tap is the only thing I don't like about the BM. I'm going to get parts for a new tap on friday, no way am I going to risk that happening on brew day, and no ******* way with 50l of wort.
> 
> Has anyone replaced the tap on a 50l? I think the female thread is bigger than the 20l and I have no idea what parts to get cause I am absolutely hopeless at plumbing/building stuff.


I replaced mine with a 3 piece ball valve. You need a 3/4" to 1/2" reducing nipple. I think it is BSP. Make sure you use stainless.

Edit: bit about stainless


----------



## Florian

Pratty1 said:


> Hi Florian,
> 
> I just re-read the post and you boil for an hr to get pre-boil gravity - then boil for another hr = 2 hrs boil......
> 
> Shouldnt the preboil gravity be....well, pre-boil?


Yes, normally pre-boil is pre-boil, and normally I sparge with 8L. This time I sparged with 12L, but I left all my settings in Beersmith as if I was sparging with 8L as that's how I've set it up and know that it works.
So obviously now with 4L extra sparge my real preboil gravity will be different (lower) from the one beersmith is telling me, so to not mess up hop additions etc I boiled until I reached the preboil gravity beersmith tells me. From there on in it's as normal.

So as you can see it was only a once off as I decided to sparge more to get better efficiency for this big beer.
If I would do that on a regular basis I would probably set up a separate profile in beersmith.


----------



## Matty3450

HI would someone with a 50 ltr braumeister that's a beersmith user mind posting their system
parameters?

Thanks

Matt


----------



## syl

50L settings here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5-wh6ZSlhqIc3RrdV9qZXh2Yk0/edit?usp=sharing


----------



## syl

Ok. So I am normally cubing 40L of beer from my 50L braumiester. Next operation is to cube 60L per brew.

Was thinking of the following, looking for feedback:

Boil up 20L in the beer robot
Cube it
15kg of grains
55L hop boil
Add cube at flameout

Or:

Boil up 20L in the beer robot
Cube it
15kg of grains
Sparge with it
75L hop boil

Can I just do the first one? Or should I do a massive boil?


----------



## Malted

syl said:


> 50L settings here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5-wh6ZSlhqIc3RrdV9qZXh2Yk0/edit?usp=sharing


You could try setting your Mashtun Volume to 85L and the Mashtun Specific Heat to 0.120 for stainless steel* (you have yours set close to Ally, why is this so?).

I have the weight of my vessel set to 8kg and yours is 24kg. The higher the mass of steel, the more heat it will require to heat it (more important for stepped infusion mashing). I can't remember where I got 8kg (might have weighed it) but I should think it certainly does not weigh 24kg. *Being a programable electric brewery: weight and specific heat is not really an issue.

The 60L vs 85L will have beersmith yelling at you sometimes though. ~440mm wide x ~560mm deep = ~85L

Trub and chiller loss varies depeding upon things like crush and composition of the grist and amount of hops. Likewise large amounts of dry hops will change how much loss to the fermenter there is. I'd question things like only 5L boiloff over 90 minutes but it depends on quite a few factors that might be specific to you and your location.

All the rest of the parameters are up to what works for you.
So at the end of the day, 80L or 85L Mastun Volume might stop beersmith getting upset with you sometimes.

Edit: so if your mashtun volume is 60L how would you do the 75L boil you propose?
Edit #2: Maltpipe volume is ~350mm x ~370mm = ~35L in total grain volume.


----------



## syl

Malted said:


> You could try setting your Mashtun Volume to 85L and the Mashtun Specific Heat to 0.120 for stainless steel* (you have yours set close to Ally, why is this so?).
> 
> I have the weight of my vessel set to 8kg and yours is 24kg. The higher the mass of steel, the more heat it will require to heat it (more important for stepped infusion mashing). I can't remember where I got 8kg (might have weighed it) but I should think it certainly does not weigh 24kg. *Being a programable electric brewery: weight and specific heat is not really an issue.
> 
> The 60L vs 85L will have beersmith yelling at you sometimes though. ~440mm wide x ~560mm deep = ~85L
> 
> Trub and chiller loss varies depeding upon things like crush and composition of the grist and amount of hops. Likewise large amounts of dry hops will change how much loss to the fermenter there is. I'd question things like only 5L boiloff over 90 minutes but it depends on quite a few factors that might be specific to you and your location.
> 
> All the rest of the parameters are up to what works for you.
> So at the end of the day, 80L or 85L Mastun Volume might stop beersmith getting upset with you sometimes.
> 
> Edit: so if your mashtun volume is 60L how would you do the 75L boil you propose?
> Edit #2: Maltpipe volume is ~350mm x ~370mm = ~35L in total grain volume.


its from another site. not mine.

I will alter accordingly. new to beersmth and may just go back to pen and paper


----------



## Malted

syl said:


> its from another site. not mine.
> 
> I will alter accordingly. new to beersmth and may just go back to pen and paper


No harm, no foul. Google Docs didn't indicate to me where it originated.
For example of parameters being set to what works for you: Speidel says you should be able to crank out 50L of finished beer; that is a batch volume that equals 50L of 'finished beer' plus losses to fermenter + losses to the kettle. This could be a batch volume of 55L or more. Perhaps you would want 47 L of finished beer (two x 19L corny kegs + 1 x 9L keg), so you might set it for a batch volume of 50L. Maybe you only want two corny kegs filled so you might go a batch volume of about 43L? At any point, set the batch volume to account for losses above the volume of beer you want.

Beersmith is a useful program but you need to give it good information. Don't get disheartened. It will take some tweaking (observing what happens so you can plug those values in for next time).




syl said:


> Ok. So I am normally cubing 40L of beer from my 50L braumiester. Next operation is to cube 60L per brew.
> 
> Was thinking of the following, looking for feedback:
> 
> Boil up 20L in the beer robot
> Cube it
> 15kg of grains
> 55L hop boil
> Add cube at flameout
> 
> Or:
> 
> Boil up 20L in the beer robot
> Cube it
> 15kg of grains
> Sparge with it
> 75L hop boil
> Can I just do the first one? Or should I do a massive boil?


What gravity of the 60L are you aiming for?


----------



## syl

1050 is all.


----------



## jimmysuperlative

Malted said:


> ... I should think it certainly does not weigh 24kg....


That number comes straight out of the destruction manual ...*"Weight: 24 kg including internal fittings and lifting bows"* ...so you're right , the stainless weight would be far less.

...and that beersmith profile was posted by snow from this forum. It's pretty much what I used to dial in my BM50L. For a typical brew I can get 55L of wort at knockout with about 4-5L lost to trub etc. I sparge with 1L/kg. Probably 85% efficiency.

Last beer was a IPA at 1061. (12.5kg grain bill)


----------



## syl

Sweet well I can definitely do the beer I want then. Just want to get 3 cubes of 1050–1055 wort for some smash session ales.


----------



## stakka82

Yeah you will be able to get 3 cubes of 20l 1050 no worries.

On saturday a mate and I punched out 55l at 1060 (enlgish IPA) with room to spare.

That was 13.2 kgs at 80%.


----------



## syl

Ok, here is my new Braumeister profile - a bit closer Malted? https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5-wh6ZSlhqIUjRKSWFBSzV0OEU/edit?usp=sharing

Also, just purchased beermsith and will have a go at it, instead of using it as a guide and doing the rest manually!


----------



## Batz

You have seen the stainless bench I have for my Braumeister, today I built this to take my Hop Rocket and chiller.
It looks like it will work well, brew day this week so I'll see.

Batz


----------



## Smokomark

Batz said:


> You have seen the stainless bench I have for my Braumeister, today I built this to take my Hop Rocket and chiller.
> It looks like it will work well, brew day this week so I'll see.
> 
> Batz


Looks great Batz


----------



## Matty3450

That's awesome batz I'd like to setup a hop back and start chilling my wort,
to date I've only no chilled with my 50 ltr braumeister thanks for the inspiration


----------



## Thefatdoghead

jimmysuperlative said:


> That number comes straight out of the destruction manual ...*"Weight: 24 kg including internal fittings and lifting bows"* ...so you're right , the stainless weight would be far less.
> 
> ...and that beersmith profile was posted by snow from this forum. It's pretty much what I used to dial in my BM50L. For a typical brew I can get 55L of wort at knockout with about 4-5L lost to trub etc. I sparge with 1L/kg. Probably 85% efficiency.
> 
> Last beer was a IPA at 1061. (12.5kg grain bill)
> 
> I put 12.5kg of grain in my 50L Brau and efficiency drops to 68%. What do yo do to get those volumes and 1061? I find mashing for a longer time increases my efficiency heaps....maybe 1.008 on occasion.


----------



## jimmysuperlative

Gav80 said:


> That number comes straight out of the destruction manual ...*"Weight: 24 kg including internal fittings and lifting bows"* ...so you're right , the stainless weight would be far less.
> 
> ...and that beersmith profile was posted by snow from this forum. It's pretty much what I used to dial in my BM50L. For a typical brew I can get 55L of wort at knockout with about 4-5L lost to trub etc. I sparge with 1L/kg. Probably 85% efficiency.
> 
> Last beer was a IPA at 1061. (12.5kg grain bill)
> 
> I put 12.5kg of grain in my 50L Brau and efficiency drops to 68%. What do yo do to get those volumes and 1061? I find mashing for a longer time increases my efficiency heaps....maybe 1.008 on occasion.
Click to expand...

What's your mash schedule look like? 

I'm using a 90 min stepped mash ...roughly 30mins @63°C, 25mins @65°C, 30mins @70°C, 5mins @76°C and then mash out @78°C.

Playing around with your crush can be helpful also.


----------



## Matty3450

Hi all,

So when using a counterflow chiller with their Braumeister what are some of the methods people are using to filter trub and break material, I like Batz setup above but after researching it seems most hopback type units are designed for whole hops. Unfortunately I live in a fairly remote area and pallet hops are much easier for me to acquire and store. What are peoples experiences

Thanks Kindly

Matt


----------



## syl

What's everyones crush? 1.5mm is lowering my efficiency heaps. Going down to 1.2 or 1.3 I think!


----------



## stakka82

i go pretty low, .9-1.0 mm with no issues.


----------



## syl

stakka82 said:


> i go pretty low, .9-1.0 mm with no issues.


Well I will definitely go 1.2 for the next. Only up to 5 batches on the beer robot. I will just try 1.2 for a while, decent balance.


----------



## vorno

syl said:


> Well I will definitely go 1.2 for the next. Only up to 5 batches on the beer robot. I will just try 1.2 for a while, decent balance.


I reckon thats about spot on. I've played around plenty with the crush and find 1,25mm works best, and is easy going for the pumps, Just adjust down to 1.0mm for wheat. Im getting about 85% with about 12 - 13 kg and 10L sparge


----------



## Batz

I crush quite fine, I have never had a problem at all.

Most of my beers have an OG of around 1.045-1.054 though.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

So it's sounding like the grain crush is definitely playing a huge part with efficiency and grain absorption. Time to get the feeler gauges out and change my crush. 
What is everyone doing for:
Raw wheat?
Black/roast barley
Wheat malt
Rye malt
I have just been doing same for all (1.2mm) but ill try finer with my base and finer still with my roast.


----------



## stakka82

Speaking of roast barley, I have been wondering how you could add the darker malts to the mash later without disturbing the malt pipe...


----------



## Rurik

Matty3450 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> So when using a counterflow chiller with their Braumeister what are some of the methods people are using to filter trub and break material, I like Batz setup above but after researching it seems most hopback type units are designed for whole hops. Unfortunately I live in a fairly remote area and pallet hops are much easier for me to acquire and store. What are peoples experiences
> 
> Thanks Kindly
> 
> Matt



I hook up a counter flow chiller to mine semi regularly (it tends to go in stages, currently putting mine in cubes), I use a pick up tube that came with my unit when I got it off MHB and use pellets. Just so long as I whirlpool and use some form of floc I don't have any troubles. I have never used a filter, I always use hop pellets and have never had a problem.


----------



## Matty3450

Thanks for the reply Rurik much appreciated


----------



## bullsneck

stakka82 said:


> Speaking of roast barley, I have been wondering how you could add the darker malts to the mash later without disturbing the malt pipe...


In the past, I have just placed malts like Roasted Barley on top of the upper screen while 'sparging' over the top. Seems to work well.


----------



## clinthem26

Batz said:


> You have seen the stainless bench I have for my Braumeister, today I built this to take my Hop Rocket and chiller.
> It looks like it will work well, brew day this week so I'll see.
> 
> Batz


Hi Batz,

What are the dimensions of your SS work bench top?

I am looking at ordering a similar unit from handy imports in preparation of a possible BM purchase. 

Cheers,

Clint


----------



## Batz

clinthem26 said:


> Hi Batz,
> 
> What are the dimensions of your SS work bench top?
> 
> I am looking at ordering a similar unit from handy imports in preparation of a possible BM purchase.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Clint


Mine is the same as this Clint.

http://handyimports.com.au/catering-kitchen/benches/610-x-1219mm-new-304-stainless-steel-work-corner-bench-table-preparation-office.html

I paid $80.00 for it second hand off ebay, I like the extra size for taking an urn etc. I also cut the legs down and fitted wheels.

Batz


----------



## dicko

clinthem26 said:


> Hi Batz,
> 
> What are the dimensions of your SS work bench top?
> 
> I am looking at ordering a similar unit from handy imports in preparation of a possible BM purchase.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Clint


Hi Clint

The bench mine sits on is approx 600 x. 900 and is suitable, as you have seen, for the 20l unit.
The 1200 long would be better for the 50l unit.

Looks like there is going to be a number of BM's in Port Lincoln in the near future.


----------



## Dan2

dicko said:


> Looks like there is going to be a number of BM's in Port Lincoln in the near future.


We've just been discussing how successful the "promotion" day was 
Only need to get Shane on board and you've got a 100% success rate. Time to ask Speidel for commission.
Get Spog over on Saturday and he might stop tinkering and jump on board too


----------



## clinthem26

Thanks for the speedy replies,

My current thinking is maybe go that little bit bigger just in case i upgrade to the 50L in the future. 

I think its time Spiedel paid you a commision Dicko!

3 shiny new BM units heading to Port Lincoln very soon :beer:


----------



## Batz

clinthem26 said:


> Thanks for the speedy replies,
> 
> My current thinking is maybe go that little bit bigger just in case i upgrade to the 50L in the future.
> 
> I think its time Spiedel paid you a commision Dicko!
> 
> 3 shiny new BM units heading to Port Lincoln very soon :beer:



If your going to buy three BM's I think one of the retailers would offer you a discount.

Batz


----------



## dicko

Yes, a commission would be good.... did you guys mention my name to your supplier :lol: h34r: 
I'll work on Shane this Saturday :lol: :lol:

After years of brewing alone we now have a great little group of AG ers over here now.

I sent spog a pm this morning Dan and just waiting to hear back.

Cheers


----------



## syl

Dropping a Smurto's Golden Ale on the BM 50L this weekend, scaled the recipe using BeerSmith (which I am falling in love with now, after putting in some effort to learn how to use it!!!)

My estimated efficiency 80% - BeerSmith says 86% - *still don't get that field!*

Changing the mill to 1.2mm so if it is over gravity I will simply up the boil volume and cube the extra few litres!


----------



## tallie

Could someone who consistently gets 80% mash efficiency or more please post one of your recipes? Specifically, what is the grain bill (grains and quantities), what is the actual pre-boil gravity and volume, and what is the efficiency calculated to be. I am curious as to whether my software (Beer Alchemy) is calculating mash efficiency in the same way.


----------



## syl

tallie said:


> Could someone who consistently gets 80% mash efficiency or more please post one of your recipes? Specifically, what is the grain bill (grains and quantities), what is the actual pre-boil gravity and volume, and what is the efficiency calculated to be. I am curious as to whether my software (Beer Alchemy) is calculating mash efficiency in the same way.


I get 83% roughly, depending on recipe. But I am only just starting to take good notes! I will post up Saturday arvo, I think this Smurto's @ 1.2mm milled grist is going to go to around 83-85%


----------



## syl

Also guys, this is my first bigger batch on the BM - how much mash water would you recommend for 12.5KG of grains?


----------



## Malted

syl said:


> Also guys, this is my first bigger batch on the BM - how much mash water would you recommend for 12.5KG of grains?


As a general rule I fill mash water to the top marking on the center rod (55L) or a bit more. You then adjust the amount of sparge water to suit your desired preboil volume to reach the desired output (batch volume). As discussed previously, if you want 50 L of finished beer, allow for losses and set your batch volume higher. If you are happy with a batch volume of 50L of wort, then you will lose some to the kettle trub and yeast trub in the fermenter/s, i.e. you won't get 50L of finished beer from a batch volume of 50L.

Your efficiency will affect how much grain you have to put in to reach your desired gravity at a particular volume. Lower efficiency means more grain to reach the desired gravity at a particular volume, Higher actual efficiency (above the predicted) is less grain - or a higher gravity for that volume. IMO some of the grain I have does not have the extract potential that BS thinks it has (consequently my gravity is different to the predicted). In particular I have some malted wheat that is a bit old and it does not yield the gravity that BS predicts, likewise for some older pilsner malt I have. Malts vary from batch to batch so if you wanted to be precise, you would need to find out these parameters for your grain and adjust the BS ingredient profile accordingly. It is all related but is perhaps too much information for now.

Dicko in this thread is spot on with his variables and though he uses a 20L jobby, he should be able to talk in some detail about predicted and actual parameters and Beersmith.


----------



## RobW

I've just joined the Teutonic side and now have a 20 litre Braumeister. 
I want to put a pickup tube in it and was thinking about an elbow stepped down from the tap hole to a tee that joins both ends of the mesh from an EZ hooker. 
The mesh would form a circle and lie on the base between the wall and the element. 
The surface area should give good even flow and the mesh will act as a screen.
Any thoughts?


----------



## Howlingdog

This is the way I've gone for the time being until I replace with S/S. Leaves about 200ml in the bottom of 20L BM

HM


----------



## RobW

Thanks HD, good to know.
What type of S/S setup are you looking at?


----------



## syl

Malted said:


> As a general rule I fill mash water to the top marking on the center rod (55L) or a bit more. You then adjust the amount of sparge water to suit your desired preboil volume to reach the desired output (batch volume). As discussed previously, if you want 50 L of finished beer, allow for losses and set your batch volume higher. If you are happy with a batch volume of 50L of wort, then you will lose some to the kettle trub and yeast trub in the fermenter/s, i.e. you won't get 50L of finished beer from a batch volume of 50L.
> 
> Your efficiency will affect how much grain you have to put in to reach your desired gravity at a particular volume. Lower efficiency means more grain to reach the desired gravity at a particular volume, Higher actual efficiency (above the predicted) is less grain - or a higher gravity for that volume. IMO some of the grain I have does not have the extract potential that BS thinks it has (consequently my gravity is different to the predicted). In particular I have some malted wheat that is a bit old and it does not yield the gravity that BS predicts, likewise for some older pilsner malt I have. Malts vary from batch to batch so if you wanted to be precise, you would need to find out these parameters for your grain and adjust the BS ingredient profile accordingly. It is all related but is perhaps too much information for now.
> 
> Dicko in this thread is spot on with his variables and though he uses a 20L jobby, he should be able to talk in some detail about predicted and actual parameters and Beersmith.


I always calc for 80%, will be interesting though.

I will just do the normal 55, going for a 65L batch.

How much waste Do you predict on a 50L with no pickup? I have 6L lost set in BS currently...


----------



## Malted

syl said:


> I always calc for 80%, will be interesting though.
> 
> I will just do the normal 55, going for a 65L batch.
> 
> How much waste Do you predict on a 50L with no pickup? I have 6L lost set in BS currently...


So you're aiming for 65L with a 55L batch? You could always go for a higher gravity and dilute it?
Beersmith tells me if you had 55L at 1.065 post boil, you could add 10L of water for a gravity of 1.055 at 65L.

Depends upon how much you tip the device over! If I run wheat, crushed twice, I will have more trub and corresponding higher losses. If I use 300g of flowers and 300g of pellets (as I did the other day) I will have a lot more loss to hops and trub -the level of hops remaining almost covered the elements when I drained the wort out. I have a pickup tube (from MHB) but rarely use it.


----------



## syl

Malted said:


> So you're aiming for 65L with a 55L batch? You could always go for a higher gravity and dilute it?
> Beersmith tells me if you had 55L at 1.065 post boil, you could add 10L of water for a gravity of 1.055 at 65L.
> 
> Depends upon how much you tip the device over! If I run wheat, crushed twice, I will have more trub and corresponding higher losses. If I use 300g of flowers and 300g of pellets (as I did the other day) I will have a lot more loss to hops and trub -the level of hops remaining almost covered the elements when I drained the wort out. I have a pickup tube (from MHB) but rarely use it.


Obviously. But a standard (this is DSGA). Tipping within reason. 5L?

200g hop pellets


----------



## DeGarre

tallie said:


> Could someone who consistently gets 80% mash efficiency or more please post one of your recipes? Specifically, what is the grain bill (grains and quantities), what is the actual pre-boil gravity and volume, and what is the efficiency calculated to be. I am curious as to whether my software (Beer Alchemy) is calculating mash efficiency in the same way.


I got 89% on this one, recipe and ingredients here:
http://tavastlandbrewing.wordpress.com/2013/08/22/brew-51-kiwi-golden-ale/

Before the boil started I had 30 litres wort at OG 1040, degrees per Litre for the grain bill were 307.2 and kilos 4.41 of grain in total
(40 x 30)/(307.2 x 4.41) = 89%


----------



## stakka82

Reasonable tipping will leave 2-3l in 50l bm with average trub volume.


----------



## tallie

DeGarre said:


> I got 89% on this one, recipe and ingredients here:
> http://tavastlandbrewing.wordpress.com/2013/08/22/brew-51-kiwi-golden-ale/
> 
> Before the boil started I had 30 litres wort at OG 1040, degrees per Litre for the grain bill were 307.2 and kilos 4.41 of grain in total
> (40 x 30)/(307.2 x 4.41) = 89%


Thanks DeGarre, especially for the calculation. That comes with 1% of what BeerAlchemy gives me.


----------



## Batz

I brew a little differently on my 50lt BM, I set beersmith for my finished volume which will be 55lt (or at least I use the 55lt BM measure groove). I then brew and sparge as usual, then after boil I top up from an urn to the 55lt groove. I rarely miss my expected OG by more than a point or two. Here I whirlpool and chill or no-chill as normal.

After the trub left in the BM (not much I have a pick up tube), and trub left in two fermenters, I keg two 19lt kegs and one 9lt party keg.

It's the way I have brewed with my BM since I have owned it, and that's a couple of years now.

Batz


----------



## dicko

I am probably a bit of a fanatic when it comes to Beersmith calcs.

I calculate the EXACT amount of water needed and that is all I use.

I mash with 25 litres and I sparge the rest through the grain after the mash.

I have my grain absorption and boil off figures set exactly for my grain crush and my BM...do not go on the default figure for grain absorption in Beersmith unless you have measured it and found it to be correct for your crush of your mill.

I only work on "mash" efficiency as "brewhouse" efficiency can and will vary from brew to brew depending on your losses in the kettle and the fermenter.

I have a 20 litre BM and I don't use a pick up tube but I have my Beersmith set to achieve a Batch volume of 25 litres.

I chill with an immersion chiller and then remove the chiller and whirlpool and allow the wort to settle for ONE HOUR in the kettle with the lid on before running it into the fermenter.

I tilt the BM to get 20 litres into the fermenter or if no trub is coming out I continue to drain on an angle until the first lot of trub starts to reach the tap outlet.. when this happens I stop draining. I am usually left with approx 4 litres in the kettle which is break material and hop trub.

I always get between 20 and 21 litres into the fermenter which will give me 19 litres into the keg. The wort is crystal clear.

Here is my equipment profile for a 90 min boil





Here is a dipstick I made to achieve the exact volume of water required as per Beersmith calculations





Here is my grain absorption settings in "Advanced Options" in Beersmith




My figure for grain absorption will differ from others...This figure however, needs to be accurate if you are to achieve repeatability.
I feel that the reason some claim that the BM loses efficiency as the beers get "bigger" is because the grain absorption figure is not correct and this results in a wort that is more diluted than it should be as the volume of grain increases.. This of course is if the absorption figure in Beersmith is higher than what it actually is in real life.
A good starting point in Beersmith for a BM is if you select the BIAB in the mash profile and work on that absorption figure which is lower than the other default.

For some time I had no other BM users to compare notes with and I couldn't seem to get any reliable figures from people that I had asked so I just relied on my own personal observations.
There is now a couple more BM owners in my area and we have come to realise that these figures vary particularly with grain crush.
I have a 3 roller Crankenstein and have it set to 1.4mm and get an efficiency of 77%. The other guys have two roller mills set to 1.2 and are getting up around 85% so I will be experimenting with my mill over the next few brews..not that I am all that worried about a few point of efficiency.

BTW the other guys "grain absorption" figures are higher than mine.
We all have 20 litre BM's and the boil off figures are very close from our recent results.

All the above are based on my observations and thoughts and is by no means "gospel" on BM brewing as each brewers situations are different.

I hope this PP type post may help some newbs with the BM :lol:

Cheers

Edted; Immersion chiller not CFWC


----------



## djar007

That over the side measuring idea is great Dicko. Consider it stolen. I have been trying to work out a good way to measure two different volumes. The one with the malt pipe in and the one with it out. Your idea is neat and perfect for me. Mind if I steal that one before you patent it?


----------



## danestead

What he said!



dicko said:


> I am probably a bit of a fanatic when it comes to Beersmith calcs.
> 
> I calculate the EXACT amount of water needed and that is all I use.
> 
> I mash with 25 litres and I sparge the rest through the grain after the mash.
> 
> I have my grain absorption and boil off figures set exactly for my grain crush and my BM...do not go on the default figure for grain absorption in Beersmith unless you have measured it and found it to be correct for your crush of your mill.
> 
> I only work on "mash" efficiency as "brewhouse" efficiency can and will vary from brew to brew depending on your losses in the kettle and the fermenter.
> 
> I have a 20 litre BM and I don't use a pick up tube but I have my Beersmith set to achieve a Batch volume of 25 litres.
> 
> I chill with an immersion chiller and then remove the chiller and whirlpool and allow the wort to settle for ONE HOUR in the kettle with the lid on before running it into the fermenter.
> 
> I tilt the BM to get 20 litres into the fermenter or if no trub is coming out I continue to drain on an angle until the first lot of trub starts to reach the tap outlet.. when this happens I stop draining. I am usually left with approx 4 litres in the kettle which is break material and hop trub.
> 
> I always get between 20 and 21 litres into the fermenter which will give me 19 litres into the keg. The wort is crystal clear.
> 
> Here is my equipment profile for a 90 min boil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Equipment Profile 20 L BM 90 min boil.jpg
> 
> Here is a dipstick I made to achieve the exact volume of water required as per Beersmith calculations
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BM Dip Stick.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_0569.jpg
> 
> Here is my grain absorption settings in "Advanced Options" in Beersmith
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beersmith Advanced Options Dicko's BM.JPG
> 
> My figure for grain absorption will differ from others...This figure however, needs to be accurate if you are to achieve repeatability.
> I feel that the reason some claim that the BM loses efficiency as the beers get "bigger" is because the grain absorption figure is not correct and this results in a wort that is more diluted than it should be as the volume of grain increases.. This of course is if the absorption figure in Beersmith is higher than what it actually is in real life.
> A good starting point in Beersmith for a BM is if you select the BIAB in the mash profile and work on that absorption figure which is lower than the other default.
> 
> For some time I had no other BM users to compare notes with and I couldn't seem to get any reliable figures from people that I had asked so I just relied on my own personal observations.
> There is now a couple more BM owners in my area and we have come to realise that these figures vary particularly with grain crush.
> I have a 3 roller Crankenstein and have it set to 1.4mm and get an efficiency of 77%. The other guys have two roller mills set to 1.2 and are getting up around 85% so I will be experimenting with my mill over the next few brews..not that I am all that worried about a few point of efficiency.
> 
> BTW the other guys "grain absorption" figures are higher than mine.
> We all have 20 litre BM's and the boil off figures are very close from our recent results.
> 
> All the above are based on my observations and thoughts and is by no means "gospel" on BM brewing as each brewers situations are different.
> 
> I hope this PP type post may help some newbs with the BM :lol:
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Edted; Immersion chiller not CFWC


----------



## dicko

You go for it djar007,

It is a pain to have the only measure that comes with the BM on the centre post which restricts a lot of measuring, particularly when you are setting it up.

If I was a bit younger I would build a factory and go into manufacturing them :lol:


----------



## syl

Here's one for all you Braumeister's out there:

What utilisation % do you calculate for whirlpool hopping/hop-standing? The general consensus between brewers varies from 10-20% which is obviously a massive difference with high alpha hops!

Doing a whirlpool hop only brew this weekend, so it's going to make a big difference.

Cheers


----------



## stakka82

Matt Brynildson of Firestone Walker Brewing Company says, "The fact that there is some isomerization (about 15% in whirlpool versus 35% in the kettle) of alpha acid means that not only hop aroma and hop flavor can be achieved, but also some bittering."

http://byo.com/component/k2/item/2808-hop-stands

Exact figure will vary depending on thermal mass of kettle and at which temp you add your whirlpool hops and for how long.

Basically how long is a piece of string.... personally whirlpool at about 95 degrees for about 20 mins (50l), consider it a 10 min addition software wise and this seems right from experimenting over 10 or so brews.


----------



## syl

stakka82 said:


> Matt Brynildson of Firestone Walker Brewing Company says, "The fact that there is some isomerization (about 15% in whirlpool versus 35% in the kettle) of alpha acid means that not only hop aroma and hop flavor can be achieved, but also some bittering."
> 
> http://byo.com/component/k2/item/2808-hop-stands
> 
> Exact figure will vary depending on thermal mass of kettle and at which temp you add your whirlpool hops and for how long.
> 
> Basically how long is a piece of string.... personally whirlpool at about 95 degrees for about 20 mins (50l), consider it a 10 min addition software wise and this seems right from experimenting over 10 or so brews.


Yeah. I know it was always going to be different, hence I wanted to get some feedback for our kit!

So a 10min addition would be about 10% utilisation as a guesstimate (at 1050). I am going to plan for 12% utilization to be safe as this is a low IBU beer (MG Steam Ale) and then dry hop the feck out of it!


----------



## Malted

dicko said:


> Here is a dipstick I made to achieve the exact volume of water required as per Beersmith calculations


Excellent Stuff!


----------



## DeGarre

Where and how is this attached?

http://speidels-braumeister.de/shop/de/Zubehoer/Brauprozess/Hopfensieb

With this could I ditch the hop bag/spider and let the hops run free in the boil/kettle?


----------



## lael

dicko said:


> I am probably a bit of a fanatic when it comes to Beersmith calcs.
> 
> I calculate the EXACT amount of water needed and that is all I use.
> 
> I mash with 25 litres and I sparge the rest through the grain after the mash.
> 
> 
> 
> My figure for grain absorption will differ from others...This figure however, needs to be accurate if you are to achieve repeatability.
> I feel that the reason some claim that the BM loses efficiency as the beers get "bigger" is because the grain absorption figure is not correct and this results in a wort that is more diluted than it should be as the volume of grain increases.. This of course is if the absorption figure in Beersmith is higher than what it actually is in real life.
> A good starting point in Beersmith for a BM is if you select the BIAB in the mash profile and work on that absorption figure which is lower than the other default.
> 
> For some time I had no other BM users to compare notes with and I couldn't seem to get any reliable figures from people that I had asked so I just relied on my own personal observations.
> There is now a couple more BM owners in my area and we have come to realise that these figures vary particularly with grain crush.
> I have a 3 roller Crankenstein and have it set to 1.4mm and get an efficiency of 77%. The other guys have two roller mills set to 1.2 and are getting up around 85% so I will be experimenting with my mill over the next few brews..not that I am all that worried about a few point of efficiency.


dicko - how do you calculate grain absorption?


----------



## dicko

Hi lael,

Total water needed as calculated by your software.....*minus* the pre boil volume actual measurement after mash is complete.... *equals* the grain absorption amount.

What I do with my BM is after the mash is complete I lift the malt pipe and let it drain into another pot until the wort reaches close to boiling (around 97 deg) and then I tip that volume in with the rest of the wort and that amount will equal my pre boil volume.

In Beersmith my POST boil volume is approximately 1 litre more than my batch volume as the software allows this for shrinkage after cooling the wort.
By doing the same procedure every time I brew I achieve figures which are the same and repeatable.

:icon_offtopic:
Just a bit off topic for your question but worth mentioning...

I decided to do a mash last Saturday night and I started at around 7.30 pm.
I let the mash complete and when the beeper was going off I cycled the BM program to the point where it said "lift the malt pipe" or similar and this stopped the beeping.
I left it in this condition with the malt pipe still in place and the temperature remaining at 77 deg which was my set mash out.
I then went to bed at around 10.30 and the BM held mash out temp overnight without running the pump.
I got up at 6.30 am and proceeded to lift the malt pipe, sparge and complete the boil and chill the wort.
To my amazement I found that my efficiency had gone from 77% to 87% without me doing anything else but holding the mash out temp overnite.
My normal mash out time is 15 mins...

I am mentioning this to point out that repeatability in brewing is really only achieved by using the *same* procedures every time.you brew.

Cheers


----------



## djar007

Interesting Dicko. Would you ever consider mashing over a twelve hour period? Not just at mash out temp but slow the whole mash down to twelve hours.


----------



## dicko

I have been lead to believe that some commercial breweries have the beta rest held for two hours to make the wort more fermentable but I have also heard that extended times at the protein rest can cause beers to suffer with head retention issues.
I don't think I would consider mashing over 12 hours by extending each mash step but I guess at our level of brewing it would not be a big cost to "try it out".
I will conduct some more testing on the mash out times over the course of my next brews and try to determine if there is a "sweet point" with time in the mash out to gain the extra points without having to leave it overnight.
I am also going to reduce the gap in my mill now I have other guys achieving genuine higher mash efficiency figures based on the same methods.
This will mean that all my figures may change and I will start from scratch again. This may also mean that the efficiency with the extended mash out may not be affected as much with the smaller mill setting.
In the end it doesn't really matter what you do, within reason, we all still make beer, it is just that I am a fanatic for figures.. 

Cheers


----------



## DeGarre

I've noticed that the quicker the wort gets clear during the mash the better the efficiency I get (lately around 88%). The wort for me gets clear quickest when my mash schedule is mash in at 45, then 70 minutes at 66, then 15 minutes at 77 or along those lines, as opposed to a convoluted 5-step schedule with small temp increments.


----------



## crhall41

Hi, am new to this forum as I just purchased my 50L BM a couple months ago. I have found some good BM brewing tips in the AHB posts and am excited to try them out as a newbie BM brewer.

FYI I found that Speidel (or a rep) started a Facebook page for the BM sometime in June of this year. Not much on the page right now but there are a few tips on increasing efficiency - one being pausing the mash cycle 3-4 times to stir your grain bill.

One question I still have about the BM is the notch markings which seem to be slightly off (I poured in 30 liters of water and it came up to just below the 30 liter notch, right around 28.5-29 liters). My best guess on this is that Speidel sets these volume notches greater that actual volume assuming the difference is trub & mash tun loss and that you will not be pulling this out into your fermenter. 

My last brew (2nd time on the BM) came in at an unimpressive 65% mash efficiency. To up this efficiency I am going to try the following on my next brew:

- condition my grain bill with 2-3% water the night before.
- mill my grain with my newly purchased Monster 2 roller maltmill (thinking 1-1.2 mm)
- use BrewTarget to determine my mash tun and sparge water volumes.
- stir my mash 3-4 times during the mash cycle.

As mentioned before I have found some very helpful tips/tricks in this and other forums. I hope to be able to add some myself in the future...

cheers!


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Could it be the displacement of the tube etc that you didn't take into account, check your mash schedule in accordance to what you were brewing as for stirring the mash 3 or 4 times I think once is all you need to do in the middle of the mash cycle, I push a piece of pvc tube into the grain bed and give it a jiggle going over the whole grain bed while singing "Bend down turn around pick a bail of cotton".
Another question did you sparge after lifting your mash from the wort ?


----------



## syl

crhall41 said:


> Hi, am new to this forum as I just purchased my 50L BM a couple months ago. I have found some good BM brewing tips in the AHB posts and am excited to try them out as a newbie BM brewer.
> 
> FYI I found that Speidel (or a rep) started a Facebook page for the BM sometime in June of this year. Not much on the page right now but there are a few tips on increasing efficiency - one being pausing the mash cycle 3-4 times to stir your grain bill.
> 
> One question I still have about the BM is the notch markings which seem to be slightly off (I poured in 30 liters of water and it came up to just below the 30 liter notch, right around 28.5-29 liters). My best guess on this is that Speidel sets these volume notches greater that actual volume assuming the difference is trub & mash tun loss and that you will not be pulling this out into your fermenter.
> 
> My last brew (2nd time on the BM) came in at an unimpressive 65% mash efficiency. To up this efficiency I am going to try the following on my next brew:
> 
> - condition my grain bill with 2-3% water the night before.
> - mill my grain with my newly purchased Monster 2 roller maltmill (thinking 1-1.2 mm)
> - use BrewTarget to determine my mash tun and sparge water volumes.
> - stir my mash 3-4 times during the mash cycle.
> 
> As mentioned before I have found some very helpful tips/tricks in this and other forums. I hope to be able to add some myself in the future...
> 
> cheers!


Mill at 1mm - that's fine on a BM.
Do you do any water adjustments? You really should.
What is the mash routine you use?


----------



## Rurik

crhall41 said:


> My last brew (2nd time on the BM) came in at an unimpressive 65% mash efficiency. To up this efficiency I am going to try the following on my next brew:
> 
> - condition my grain bill with 2-3% water the night before.
> - mill my grain with my newly purchased Monster 2 roller maltmill (thinking 1-1.2 mm)
> - use BrewTarget to determine my mash tun and sparge water volumes.
> - stir my mash 3-4 times during the mash cycle.



I think people can get to caught up in efficiency and chasing it. I would not bother with things like grain conditioning and water adjustments just yet. Have a look at your crack, the problem with grain crack is that every brewer has a different opinion and most of them are probably right (for their setup).

For me I could not tell you what my mill is set at, as what is important is how the grain is after you crush at. I try to achieve a kibble type of consistency with my grain with the bits about 1.5mm across but I have never measured it or anything. To achieve this start by running the grain through your mill with the rollers set a little smaller then the size of the grain. This will bust the kernel open and give you a consistent particle size to deal with. Now I know I said I could not tell you what my mill gap is but I would guess it would be around 2mm to achieve this but it changes from grain to grain. Start by cracking a small amount and adjust it down until you are just cracking it. Then run the rest of the grain through also I will run mine through twice at the same setting just to be sure it is all the same. My next step is to make my rollers closer together say about 1.6-1.7 (the gap is not important and again will change depending on the grain that I am milling) and run it through. If I am happy with the results I will run it through again to be sure, if I feel the kibble is a tad large I will close the gap by about .1 of a mm. This usually gives me a cracked grain bill that I am happy to brew with. 

The other thing I do to improve my efficiency is to rinse the grain in my tube. To do this I put the lid of the BM on a bucket and then the malt tube on top then poor 5l (please note I have a 20l unit so double it for the 50) of water at 79 deg C over it and let it drain. I then add this back into the kettle with about 30min to go in the boil.

Doing these two things has got my brewhouse efficiency to 82.5% concistently. Now I do modify the water but that is only to improve my beer and I have not noted an increase in efficiency for doing so. I don't stop and stir at any point, the machine does it by pumping the water through the malt just make sure you do not have any dough balls at the start. I spent some time with my unit calibrating it so I knew what was what and how much to use a 5l measuring jug was the best thing I had for this. 

I would stay with doing a simple grain bill again and again until you know the system (. Say 9.5kg of base malt, .5kg of Crystal or wheat malt bittered to 25 IBU's and your fav finishing hop and US05.


----------



## crhall41

Partial Man - I did sparge with about 5L at 78C though I think more would have been better. I did not do a hydrometer reading at this point which I need to add to my routine in the future.

Beer God - I did not nor do I think I need to do any water adjustments. Our water is very pristine, similar to Pilsen. My mash schedule was 70C for 10 min and 74C for 50 min. I am thinking of the following schedule for my next brew: 40C 52C 63C 70C with mash out/sparge at 78C.

Mini Mash - thx for the tip on milling. I did not think about washing the grains prior to mashing - Is this something everyone does?


----------



## crhall41

sorry my prior replies should have been to 'wide eyed and legless', 'syl', and 'Rurik' respectively...


----------



## DeGarre

The answer to 88-90% mash efficiency is the rinsing/sparging, no breaks or stirring is necessary or any other hocus pocus. With my 20L is mash with 26L and rinse very slowly with 6-7 litres, When the mashing is done I lift the malt pipe onto buckets and the lid and start heating up meanwhile rinsing 1/2L at the time. I've finished rinsing just before 100 degC is reached ie from 77 to 100 is 23 degrees and 65 seconds per 1 degree so what, almost 1/2 hour rinsing and even longer because I keep adding the wort into the kettle which slows down temp rise.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

I changed my crush to 1.9mm and ran a malt bill of 12.6kg pearl pale malt and 1kg of caraaroma, so 13.6kg in the 50l brau. The flow through the malt pipe was good. 
Ended up with 67% efficiency and 1.060 at end of boil. I added adjunct to get to 1.070. 
Going to try a run on 1.7 because I did notice there were some grains that were cracked but there was still endo sperm inside them. Ill go for 14kg and see if I can get a higher OG. I'm happy with 67% but I just want the higher gravity for IPA and IIPA.


----------



## Dan Pratt

For some input to the discussion, my LHBS in newcastle sets the Mill to 1.4mm when cracking grain for Braumeister users. He then runs it through twice.

I average 80% mash efficiency.


----------



## Rurik

Who do you think taught me how to crack my grain. WIth the six inch rollers that are on his mill I used to use a 1.4mm gap I also did not bother with the first pass as the mill has the balls to go straight to the 1.4. This is an example of there is not a single answer but rather a method to work out what works for your system. 





Pratty1 said:


> For some input to the discussion, my LHBS in newcastle sets the Mill to 1.4mm when cracking grain for Braumeister users. He then runs it through twice.
> 
> I average 80% mash efficiency.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

crhall41 said:


> Beer God - I did not nor do I think I need to do any water adjustments. Our water is very pristine, similar to Pilsen. My mash schedule was 70C for 10 min and 74C for 50 min. I am thinking of the following schedule for my next brew: 40C 52C 63C 70C with mash out/sparge at 78C.


Soft water is not necessarily ideal brewing water, you're just lucky that its easier to add than take away.

Without derailing this thread with water chemistry, of which I only have a minimal understanding anyway....water treatment can get your pH to the right level and help your efficiency significantly. I live in Canberra with very soft water and have noticed improvements to my efficiency and the taste of my beers with the right salt selection (calcium sulfate for hoppy beers for instance can really make the hops sing).

Check out this water calculator: http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/ Put in your water supply info and compare it to the style of beer you're making - I suspect you'll find a good reason to treat.


----------



## crhall41

Mr. No-Tip said:


> Check out this water calculator: http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/ Put in your water supply info and compare it to the style of beer you're making - I suspect you'll find a good reason to treat.


Thanks, ran the report and it recommended adding 0.3 gm of slaked lime to boil and 0.2 ml of lactic acid to my sparge water (assuming I want to reduce the pH to my boil pH of 5.4). 

Q? - do you add DME to the grist list for this report?

Q? for everyone - given that the short malt pipe only holds 5.5 kg do most of you add DME or LME for high gravity beers?


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Thanks, ran the report and it recommended adding 0.3 gm of slaked lime to boil and 0.2 ml of lactic acid to my sparge water (assuming I want to reduce the pH to my boil pH of 5.4). 

Q? - do you add DME to the grist list for this report?

Q? for everyone - given that the short malt pipe only holds 5.5 kg do most of you add DME or LME for high gravity beers?


Mash pH is where the magic happens for efficiency. The water book recently published can take you to the Nth degree, but some threads on here can also give you the basics. As DME isn't in the mash it's not relevant for those calculations.

High gravity beers. I've used DME and a "double mash" method - only did that once and probably wouldn't again. There's a "big beers for Braumeister" thread somewhere on these forums (I'm on tapatalk right now so can't link)


----------



## Edak

Which would you not do again? DME or double mash?


----------



## Thefatdoghead

Edak said:


> Which would you not do again? DME or double mash?


DME costs more money. Double mash costs more time. Didn't notice any difference in flavour with the DME beer because it had a kilo of hops in it and I used premium pilsen malt extract from briess. 
I reckon if i can get to 1.068 without any adjunct im good for most beers I want to brew. 1.070 is a good goal to work towards with a single mash.


----------



## crhall41

Mr. No-Tip said:


> Soft water is not necessarily ideal brewing water, you're just lucky that its easier to add than take away.
> 
> Without derailing this thread with water chemistry, of which I only have a minimal understanding anyway....water treatment can get your pH to the right level and help your efficiency significantly. I live in Canberra with very soft water and have noticed improvements to my efficiency and the taste of my beers with the right salt selection (calcium sulfate for hoppy beers for instance can really make the hops sing).
> 
> Check out this water calculator: http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/ Put in your water supply info and compare it to the style of beer you're making - I suspect you'll find a good reason to treat.


Funny I used this water calculator and it suggested some salt additions for the winter ale I am planning to brew. So while having a pint at a local microbrewery (10 bbl system) I asked the bartender if they did the same - he stated 'no', all they do is filter their water to get rid of residual chlorine. They brew a few different types of beer there: Porters, high gravity ales, ISAs, hefs, etc., and all I have tasted have been great. Now I am wondering again if I should mess with these additions. i probably will at least once if there is a chance it will help with pH and efficiency.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

What's the local micro and how do they rate beyond their walls?


----------



## Camo1234

Hi Guys

First brew on my 50l BM yesterday and man I wish I made the move earlier!!!! Such an easy brew day, quick and simple and I even looked after the baby while the wife went out so the $3,500 is even a good investment in her eyes now!

I did my first brew using the short malt pipe and all seemed to go well.... I mashed in with 25l but that didn't seem to cover the element enough for my liking so I added another 5ltrs and all went well.... What do you guys usually mash in with when using the short malt pipe and an approx 5kg grain bill?

Another question is when the pump is running should you see the wort bubbling towards the back of the vessel as though the pump is pushing liquid outside of the malt pipe?? I am just not sure if I had it positioned properly... Wort was recirculating out the top of the malt pipe but just not sure if it was enough flow.

So glad I made the move as I was getting to the point with the 3v where I was putting off brew days but now I want to brew more!

Cameron


----------



## zoigl

G'day Cameron
Congratulations on you new BM, I enjoy using mine.
The wort should not bubble outside the malt pipe, the seal may have come off your small pipe or the pipe could be misplaced in relation to the pump vents. Check where the pump inlet/outlets are in relation to the pipe before adding any grain, or do a test fit. Did you screw the pipe down really tight?
I don't use a small pipe tho. I figure that if I am using a day to make beer, then I should make 50l. Actually, I get 42 L into my kegs.
Good luck with your brewing


----------



## Camo1234

Yep I had it screwed down tight but I reckon there was a small leak there somewhere... The wort did clear up but it took a while to get there as the recirculation was pretty slow..... Might give it a burl with just water next.


----------



## niels

I had an e-mail conversation with Ralf from Speidel. The 20L uses 23L water for maisch in. The 25L (short malt pipe) should use at least 28L.

Niels


----------



## Camo1234

Nice! Cheers Niels..... I hadn't seen any chat about the short malt pipe so wasn't sure how much to use.


----------



## Dan Pratt

Today Im going to try an fuller volume mash on my 20L. mash in 5kg with 27lts of water, start the pump and then another 3 litres which should bring it to just below the top of the malt pipe. when it stops for a break it should be flooded. this will reduce the sparge to only 5 litres. see how it goes.


----------



## DeGarre

niels said:


> I had an e-mail conversation with Ralf from Speidel. The 20L uses 23L water for maisch in. The 25L (short malt pipe) should use at least 28L.
> 
> Niels


20L uses 26L easy which is the top marking on the rod.


----------



## DeGarre

Pratty1 said:


> Today Im going to try an fuller volume mash on my 20L. mash in 5kg with 27lts of water, start the pump and then another 3 litres which should bring it to just below the top of the malt pipe. when it stops for a break it should be flooded. this will reduce the sparge to only 5 litres. see how it goes.


I'll be interested to know the results because I once mashed with 28L and when I lifted the malt pipe the grain flooded out from the bottom and I had to clean and re-mash. Could've been unrelated though but since then I haven't mashed with more than 26L.


----------



## niels

Nice! Cheers Niels..... I hadn't seen any chat about the short malt pipe so wasn't sure how much to use.

In the manual only the minimum mash in amount is given for the 20L and 50L. Since I mainly wanted to use the 25L malt pipe I immediately contacted Speidel about this. They should add it to the manual or the small instruction paper that comes with the short malt pipe.
20L uses 26L easy which is the top marking on the rod.

I meant the minimum amount of mash in water as this important to make sure the pumps don't run dry.

Niels


----------



## dicko

niels said:


> I had an e-mail conversation with Ralf from Speidel. The 20L uses 23L water for maisch in. The 25L (short malt pipe) should use at least 28L.Niels


Are those figures before grain absorption or after grain absorption or doesn't it matter due to the grain displacing some of the volume anyway....now I will be thinking about this all day


----------



## Dan Pratt

DeGarre said:


> I'll be interested to know the results because I once mashed with 28L and when I lifted the malt pipe the grain flooded out from the bottom and I had to clean and re-mash. Could've been unrelated though but since then I haven't mashed with more than 26L.


It went quite well. I measure in 30lts of water and then removed the 3Lts into a 5Lt jug ( to get my usual 27lt mash in volume ) . I mashed in 5 kg of malt @ 20c and then started the pump. As the water started to flow over the top of the malt pipe I added back the 3 Lts.

The pump break happened and the water level was just below the curve of the malt pipe during the break. When it got to mash out temp the water level was pretty even acorss the malt pipe when it had it rest, while running it had about 2-3mm from the top of the malt pipe to flow over.

With the results I got im likley to always do a higher volume mash. I also found that the runnings from the 2 x 2.5lt sparges were at gravitys of 1.029 and 1.025. Usually the I run 3 x 3 lts and get 1.026, 1.016 & 1.010.


----------



## crhall41

crhall41 said:


> My last brew (2nd time on the BM) came in at an unimpressive 65% mash efficiency. To up this efficiency I am going to try the following on my next brew:
> 
> - condition my grain bill with 2-3% water the night before.
> - mill my grain with my newly purchased Monster 2 roller maltmill (thinking 1-1.2 mm)
> - use BrewTarget to determine my mash tun and sparge water volumes.
> - stir my mash 3-4 times during the mash cycle.


I thought I would do a report out after my 3rd brew with BM50. Before I get into the numbers here is what I did different than last time.

- used BeerToolsPro to design my recipe (nice app but not intuitive for beginners)
- conditioned my grain bill at 2% night before (really helped reduce the dust during milling  )
- milled my grist at 1.21mm (crunchy grind that produced a bit of flour - may do 1.4mm next time)
- stirred my mash before sparging (determined too much a pain to do during the mash cycle)
- did a 2 step yeast starter at 1.5L each using a stirplate (fermentation is cranking now at 12 hours)

My winter ale OG of 1.075 was a fairly high OG to shoot for given my previous poor showings but I went for it anyways. My recipe called for 7.3kg of grist for my 19L batch but using the short malt pipe could not hold that much so I decided to cut back the 2-row 33% and add DME during the boil. Good that I did this because I was at the load limit of the pipe at 5.5kg. After doing some reading on mash schedules I realized it there was a lot of different thoughts out there, but I had to make a choice so I went with 55C-10m/63C-60m/68C-20m/72C-30m/78C-10m. I went with the longer mash to get the best attenuation. Also read on some AHB post that a longer B amylase rest was good for higher OG brews so I went with it! My boil time was 90 minutes.

I am very please to say that I hit my targets pretty spot on. I hit my pre-boil, pre-DME target of 1.047, my mash efficiency was 77%, and my brewhouse efficiency was 79% (at least that is what I think the efficiency number is in BTP - it did not say in the user guide). With the added 0.5kg of amber DME this will bump me up to an OG of 1.075 and a ABV of 7.4%.

Needless to say cleanup was relatively easy with the BM. i love that there is no hoses, clamps, valves, etc to clean. I am very pleased with the results this time around. Now if I can only get my corny's to not leak 

thanks again for all the great BM discussion on AHB.

cheers, Chris


----------



## crhall41

niels said:


> I had an e-mail conversation with Ralf from Speidel. The 20L uses 23L water for maisch in. The 25L (short malt pipe) should use at least 28L.
> 
> Niels


I put in 25L in my last batch and the BM50 circulated fine with the short malt pipe. I will try 28L next time as I would like to bump my final volume up a bit more. Thanks for sharing this info from Ralf at Speidel :lol:


----------



## DeGarre

For those who sparge/rinse on an upside-down turned lid on top of two buckets...don't experiment with fast flood rinsing. The slit where the wort runs through to the bucket gets clogged with grain and when you lift the malt pipe the wort floods onto the lid and floor. Grain everywhere and the wort needs to be filtered before going to the kettle. Still managed 87% ME.


----------



## beerkench

All you Aussie chaps appear to be getting top efficiency out of your Braumeisters, when I'm only getting around 70-72% total according to Beersmith.
I wonder if it's the warm weather you have making it easier on the Braumeister itself (My brew room's around 6 C at the moment).
I have a 20L BM and mash in with 25L and can sparge with around 2.5-3L. If I sparge with anymore then my pre boil OG starts to sink below the target. 
I sparge slowly, at the right temp and my grain is crushed at 1mm. I usually end up with 19-20L in the bucket. 
Wonder how I could improve it.


----------



## cliffo

I have the 50L and experience the same problem as you re sparging reducing the pre boil OG.

I can only assume it has to do with channeling of the sparge water even though I stir the grain after pulling the malt pipe out and pour the water 1L at a time with the filter plate on top of the grain.

I've had mine for 11 months and really should start taking some solid notes to pin point the problem.

Keen to hear others views on this.


----------



## djar007

What does an iodine test reveal?


----------



## Rurik

djar007 said:


> What does an iodine test reveal?



The presence of starch in the mash, when it has all been converted the iodine will not change colour. 


http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Iodine_test


----------



## beerkench

Rurik said:


> The presence of starch in the mash, when it has all been converted the iodine will not change colour.
> 
> 
> http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Iodine_test


I think the poster meant that as a question to us having efficiency problems.


----------



## Rurik

beerkench said:


> I think the poster meant that as a question to us having efficiency problems.



In that case. If the test returns a result of that there is still starch in the mash there is a mash conversion problem. In other words not all the starch in the grain is being turned into fermentable sugar. I don't think a conversion issues is going to be an equipment problem in a BM. They are too well made & proven again and again all over the world.

I would start by looking at the grain bill and the quality of the grain. If you are buying brewing grade malt in this country I don't think you are going to have a problem unless it is old or poorly stored. The other problem could be that the recipe has too high a level of unmated starch in the recipe; Making it impossible for the enzyme to convert all the starch. I would go and get my self some fresh malt from a reputable supplier who deals in grain, I am sure you can find one at the top of this page or you could go where I go which is Marks Home Brew.

If you are still having problems converting starch with a 100% fresh malt wort. I would start to look at your water but that is the last place I would look. In this case find out what other brewers in the area are doing and why.


----------



## Rurik

beerkench said:


> All you Aussie chaps appear to be getting top efficiency out of your Braumeisters, when I'm only getting around 70-72% total according to Beersmith.
> I wonder if it's the warm weather you have making it easier on the Braumeister itself (My brew room's around 6 C at the moment).
> I have a 20L BM and mash in with 25L and can sparge with around 2.5-3L. If I sparge with anymore then my pre boil OG starts to sink below the target.
> I sparge slowly, at the right temp and my grain is crushed at 1mm. I usually end up with 19-20L in the bucket.
> Wonder how I could improve it.



I mash at that temperature in the Canberra winters. Sparging does not affect your over all efficiency; over sparging* means that you may have to boil more but it does not make you efficiency less. I don't really sparg; more just displace the sweet wort out of the grain by pouring 5L of 79 Deg C water into the malt pipe and let it drain down. I am not quite sure what my gain crack is as it changes depending what what malt I am using. I try and get a good kibble that is between 1mm-1.5mm. 

I think the world of efficiency is a difficult one to find out from others what to do better; it is a bit like trying to get a glass of water from a fire hose (there is way more water/info then you need). You have to work out your system and where it is going wrong. Then you can ask questions that will get you the answers you need. I was having a lot of issues re efficiency with my old 3v system this podcast changed the way I went about trying to fix it; http://ec.libsyn.com/p/7/3/4/734e88977041a79a/bbr03-26-09byoexp.mp3?d13a76d516d9dec20c3d276ce028ed5089ab1ce3dae902ea1d01c08236d9c85c94cb&c_id=1452350 from there I was able to then ask the right questions. 








*A higher efficiency does not mean a better beer BTW there are other issues. Also there is also the fact of the larger the amount of water passed through the spent grains, the larger the amount of water which must be evaporated again.


----------



## MastersBrewery

on the efficiency hunt, water balance can make a huge jump in those numbers, and I mean balance not profiling Burton water or some other obscure water profile


----------



## DeGarre

beerkench said:


> All you Aussie chaps appear to be getting top efficiency out of your Braumeisters, when I'm only getting around 70-72% total according to Beersmith.
> I wonder if it's the warm weather you have making it easier on the Braumeister itself (My brew room's around 6 C at the moment).
> I have a 20L BM and mash in with 25L and can sparge with around 2.5-3L. If I sparge with anymore then my pre boil OG starts to sink below the target.
> I sparge slowly, at the right temp and my grain is crushed at 1mm. I usually end up with 19-20L in the bucket.
> Wonder how I could improve it.


I am actually based quite near the arctic circle...as an example, last brew I mashed with 26L and rinsed with 7L. After the mash and before rinsing I was bang on target og 1050. After the rinse and when the boil started I had 30L in the kettle at 1044-1045 but I picked it up during the boil and ended up at 1049 ie only 1 point low. See, what you dilute in the gravity you start picking up later when you boil. I used to pick up 3-4 points but lately a bit more. I ended up with 24L into FV.


----------



## Rurik

DeGarre said:


> I am actually based quite near the arctic circle...as an example, last brew I mashed with 26L and rinsed with 7L. After the mash and before rinsing I was bang on target og 1050. After the rinse and when the boil started I had 30L in the kettle at 1044-1045 but I picked it up during the boil and ended up at 1049 ie only 1 point low. See, what you dilute in the gravity you start picking up later when you boil. I used to pick up 3-4 points but lately a bit more. I ended up with 24L into FV.



Your extract efficiency has not changed at any point after the sparg is finished. It is related to the potential extract of the malt at the beginning of the boil you had 30l of 1.045 or 11.25P wort giving you 3.375kg of sugar in solution . At the end of the boil you had 24L of 1.050 or 12.5% wort giving you 3kg of sugar. Now that leaves you missing .375kg missing, I reckon that you will find it sitting in the 3l of 12.5% wort sitting in the bottom of you kettle; incidentally I lose bang on 3L to the kettle in my 20l BM . You have not gained anything back just changed the concentration of it.


----------



## DeGarre

Sure, I understand mash efficiency does not change during the boil and I do have some wort left in trub that does not go into FV. But the way I see it, even by rinsing with quite a few litres I still hit my gravity but get more beer in the end. I usually bottle 22.5-23 litres.

Sometimes I decide during the rinse or boil that I will prefer lower gravity and more beer so I might water it down, say, 1046 intended gravity to 1042. One could easily brew 30L batch with 20L BM. Adjusting hopping rates of course.


----------



## beerkench

23 litres in the bottle? Wow. I get 19 if I'm doing a beer over 1.050. Must be something in the water you have down under.


----------



## DeGarre

Using rough average figures, 29L starts to boil, into FV 23L + 1.5L into a bottle to carbonate later, 22.5L into bottles/casks. no matter what the gravity. Boil for 60 minutes, lid half on, fully off some of the boil.


----------



## crhall41

Speaking of boil off my last 2 brews have had evaporation rates of 17.7% and 18.1% per hour. This seems darn high compared to the other numbers I see folks posting on this forum. it seems more odd since I am brewing in my garage where the ambient temperature is about 10C. Maybe the insulated jacket plus setting my boil temp to 102C helps bumps this rate up. Additionally it could be I am only brewing 20L batches in my 50L BM.

Anyone else see this high an evaporation rate???


----------



## tiprya

Nope, I get around 11-12% when I start with 27L or so (after sparging). I find boil-off decreases as your starting volume increases.

Maybe it is because of your extra elements in your 50L model? I'm using an insulated 20L model set to 102.


----------



## paulmclaren11

Fellow brewers, I have a 20ltr BM coming my way after many stove top BIABs. Was a great learning curve and definitely a great way to start learning BIAB without much $$ being spent.

I have read through most of these threads and thank everyone who provided this helpful information.

I was wondering if a 30ltr batch is possible on the 20 ltr BM? I have a house Mid APA that I am very happy with and now that the BM can take more grain I am wondering how much of this brew I can make.

My original 20 litre batch is about 3.29kg @ 75% eff - a 30 ltr batch according to Brew mate takes it up to about 4.9kg - in the realms of the 20 tr BM.

Is it just has simple as mashing in with about 25-27 litres, sparging with say 5 litres and I will end up with about 30 litres of my 3.9% beer?

Sorry if this sounds simple... but want to get my head around full volume brewing.


----------



## doon

Remember you have grain absorption and boil off. If you mash in witg 5kg of grain you'll have around 20l left before sparge. 

Add 5l sparge then with boil off and trub have around 21-22l. You can always then dilute in bm with boiling water up to 30l


----------



## tiprya

Yeah, you'll want to brew over gravity, and water down in the fermenter. The 20L takes up to about 6kg of grain and gives you roughly 20L @ 1.065, so you should easily be able to get 30L at ~1.040.

Bitterness calculations will have to take into account the higher boil gravity though.


----------



## Brad Churchill

crhall41 said:


> Speaking of boil off my last 2 brews have had evaporation rates of 17.7% and 18.1% per hour. This seems darn high compared to the other numbers I see folks posting on this forum. it seems more odd since I am brewing in my garage where the ambient temperature is about 10C. Maybe the insulated jacket plus setting my boil temp to 102C helps bumps this rate up. Additionally it could be I am only brewing 20L batches in my 50L BM.
> 
> Anyone else see this high an evaporation rate???


Yeah this is normal when using the 20L malt pipe in the 50L Braumeister.
It is because evaporation is related to surface area. You will find that when you do 50L batches your evaporation rate will be around 8 - 10% and this is because you have the same surface area (diameter of the kettle) when doing full or half batches.

Cheers


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

I have done larger batches on my 25l pipe and used a small amount of DME in combination with a very full pipe to get 30l at medium gravities. ~20% DME did not change have any detrimental effects on the beer.


----------



## paulmclaren11

Thanks for the replies, I guess what you are saying is basically what I was doing with my 19ltr pot BIAB method - high gravity brewing with dilution in the FV. I have been happy with these results.

I guess a bit of trial and error will be needed - I will most likely just follow the instructions to the letter for my first few and then start experimenting.

But would be good to get around 30 ltrs of my mid - either ferment the whole lot or half and half and cube some off.

About sparging, is 1lt/kg of grain a good as good basis or is 7-8 litres a better option?


----------



## tiprya

I sparge around 5-8l, but usually 6l.

My final runnings are usually still well over 1.020 sparging this much.


----------



## Dan Pratt

Here is what I do. Mash in 5kg into 27lt. End of mash remove malt pipe. Volume now is 27 - 5 = 22lt left over. Sparge 9litres at 78c giving 31lt preboil vol. Boil evapourates 18%, so 31lt - 5.6(18%)= 25.4lt post boil, 22.5 litres in FV and 2.9lt left as trub. The gravity on average is 1054. You could always Sparge more to increase final volume and lower final gravity with increasing malt bill to 6kg.


----------



## crhall41

Brad C said:


> Yeah this is normal when using the 20L malt pipe in the 50L Braumeister.
> It is because evaporation is related to surface area. You will find that when you do 50L batches your evaporation rate will be around 8 - 10% and this is because you have the same surface area (diameter of the kettle) when doing full or half batches.
> 
> Cheers


Brad C - thanks for the confirmation


----------



## beerkench

There's always quite a lot of wort left with the trub in the bottom after a Braumeister brew. Do you guys strain it, leave it or do you let it go into your FV?


----------



## niels

beerkench said:


> There's always quite a lot of wort left with the trub in the bottom after a Braumeister brew. Do you guys strain it, leave it or do you let it go into your FV?


When you have a good cold break you can let the trub settle out on the bottom before tilting the Braumeister to get the most out of it.
Possibly the use of whole hops/cones will create a filter that will catch most of the trub when tilting.

Also, I don't mind a little bit of proteins in my FV as I transfer the wort in a secondary to clarify. Although trub/proteins in your FV makes washing yeast for reduce a little harder.

Niels


----------



## Murdoch

After transferring the wort to the fermenter & tilting a little to catch some more of the clean wort I then transfer the remaining wort & trub to a sanatised container & then chill overnight
The next morning all the trub has settled to the bottom with clean wort on top which I decant & add to the fermenter
This increases the yield & also really kicks the yeast off


----------



## Rurik

beerkench said:


> There's always quite a lot of wort left with the trub in the bottom after a Braumeister brew. Do you guys strain it, leave it or do you let it go into your FV?



I have a pick up tube so I am left with 3L of trube in the bottom of my 20L BM. I tip it down the drain and count it as the cost of doing business. I think it is a false economy trying to save it.


----------



## beerkench

Some of the guys on HBT dump the whole lot in to the FV. I think I will go happy medium and not mind too much if some of the grub gets in. 
Cheers.


----------



## beerkench

Another Braumeister question chaps: How do you get yours clean? I often find it difficult to getting to the outside of the bottom element rings.


----------



## dicko

I chill my wort with an immersion chiller then I use the BM as a settling tank for the next 45 mins or so, and then I drain the wort into a fermenter straight from the tap.
Result is crystal clear wort and the yeast that is left after fermentation is extremely clean.
I lose around 3.5 to 4 litres trub and I gently tilt the kettle when draining to the fermenter. I allow for this loss in my brewing software.



beerkench said:


> Another Braumeister question chaps: How do you get yours clean? I often find it difficult to getting to the outside of the bottom element rings.


 PBW is your friend, I soak my BM in around 10 litres of mix at 65 deg for an hour or overnite if it suits and then I get one of those dish mops that have a plastic handle and the mop part is like strands of coarse wool and give it a swish around the element paying attention to the back and undersides, then I rinse the BM, undo the pump and clean the impeller and then leave it to dry.
It comes up like new every time.


----------



## doon

Put some pbw in it with enough water to cover elements and heat to 70 degrees and leave it at that temp for 30 mins. Makes Makes mine sparkle


----------



## tiprya

Yeah, pbw every 4th or 5th brew. It makes cleaning after every other brew very easy too, I get a cloth and wrap it around the element and feed it around to get any grime off.

Does a much better job than sodium percarb that I used when I first got it, must be the extra stuff they add to it.


----------



## Rurik

beerkench said:


> Another Braumeister question chaps: How do you get yours clean? I often find it difficult to getting to the outside of the bottom element rings.


I give every thing a wipe over with a chux or a scrubbing brush to get the crud off. A quick rinse then I fill it up with water, put the malt pipe in and everything that gets sticky into it. Run it at 50 deg C with a capful of sodium percabonate for 30 min or so. Rinse it off and clean the pump. My unit has done close to 100 brews and still look great.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Don't use caustic. The brass pump housings don't like that. 

I drag mine outside and hose out the pumps and dump it a few times to get rid of most of the hops and break, then do a PBW rinse much like what was mentioned above.


----------



## DeGarre

tiprya said:


> --- I get a cloth and wrap it around the element and feed it around to get any grime off.
> 
> ---


This. From one end to another and back.


----------



## Edak

I drain the left overs into a flask and chill it and decant it. I use it as my next starter. With respect to cleaning, PBW FTW.


----------



## paulmclaren11

I finally have my 20ltr BM and loving reading this thread. Great tips on cleaning too.

I am not going to get a chance to 'pop it's cherry' for a few weeks given family/xmas events, but wanting to know if anyone uses BrewMate for their software for the 20ltr and what the brew day settings are?

I have a rough idea after reading this thread and I guess it's trial and error for the first few but if anyone has these settings this would be awesome.

Cheers.


----------



## dicko

Here are my settings in Brewmate.

It will be a starting point....your efficiencies may be different and I use the kettle volume as the batch size..25 litres. From this you will have loss to trub, chiller etc if you use my volumes.

You will love the BM


----------



## dicko

Here is a bigger pic...a little easier to read


----------



## Coalminer

Looks good, Dicko

I take it from that info that you mash with full volume and don't sparge?

What difference have you noticed from ,say, mash in with 26L and sparge/rinse with 7L (my method)

cheers


----------



## dicko

Coalminer,

I actually mash with about 24 to 25 litres and sparge with the balance amount that is predicted by the software but it makes no real difference to your calculations for the beer.

If I do a full volume mash then my efficiency drops a bit so I am happy to sparge for a few minutes to get the extra points.
It is pretty much the same as anyone doing BIAB.

Basically when I use Brewmate I am only asking for the total volume of water required for the efficiency, grain absorption and boil off settings to calculate the recipe correctly.

I hope, one day, some one will write a software program for the BM and similar machines and if suitable I would gladly pay for it.

Cheers


----------



## dicko

BTW please ignore the "Strike Water Temp" figure and the "Strike Water Litres" as this is not really applicable with the BM and I don't know why the strike water is more than the total water required.
I will go further into it when I get more time.

Cheers


----------



## Mick Gramoit

Doing my first batch on my 20l Braumeister tomorrow, extremely excited!


----------



## zoigl

Good luck Mick, I hope all goes well. What are you brewing?


----------



## Coalminer

dicko said:


> BTW please ignore the "Strike Water Temp" figure and the "Strike Water Litres" as this is not really applicable with the BM and I don't know why the strike water is more than the total water required.
> I will go further into it when I get more time.
> 
> Cheers


OK, thanks Dicko,
I also would pay for something that relates to the Braumeister


----------



## paulmclaren11

dicko said:


> Here is a bigger pic...a little easier to read


Awesome thanks Dicko and for the explaination as to how you use the program to get your water levels and desired efficiencies.


----------



## dicko

Guys, that grain absorption figure is as important as the boil off figures for calculating the recipe. My absorption figures changed when I changed my mill gap so just make notes and adjust as you go along.

The grain absorption can be determined by knowing the exact volume of water you started with and then measuring the exact pre boil figure you have after the mash and the sparge.

If you go back through this topic you will see a dip stick I made for the job

Cheers


----------



## paulmclaren11

> What's your mill set at Dicko?


----------



## dicko

Mine is a 3 roller Crankenstein and is currently set at 1.2mm which is what gives me that GA figure in the above screenshot.

I have mates with different mills and they get different efficiencies and different GA figures

Cheers


----------



## Coalminer

dicko said:


> Guys, that grain absorption figure is as important as the boil off figures for calculating the recipe. My absorption figures changed when I changed my mill gap so just make notes and adjust as you go along.
> 
> The grain absorption can be determined by knowing the exact volume of water you started with and then measuring the exact pre boil figure you have after the mash and the sparge.
> 
> If you go back through this topic you will see a dip stick I made for the job
> 
> Cheers


Dicko

What I have been doing is weigh the grain before the mash and then weigh it when I remove it
I have been thinking this is the most accurate way and get 0.5 - 0.6L/Kg
Just thinking about it now and I believe this does not take into account the weight of sugars extracted from the grain so your volume method is more accurate.

Cheers


----------



## dicko

Repeatability is what is required with AG brewing if you have the need to make the same recipe over again.
This will only be achieved with correct and accurate figures on which you can base your calculations.
Your figures are "yours" and may not relate the the brewer with the BM next door.
Measure and take notes and adjust as you complete each brew and do everything the same each time and within a short time you will have the figures nailed for your brewery.


----------



## Mick Gramoit

zoigl said:


> Good luck Mick, I hope all goes well. What are you brewing?


Brewing a very Hoppy american IPA (Mosiac and Simcoe). Hoping for a OG of 1.060 with 75 % efficiency.


----------



## paulmclaren11

What is the min grain bill the 20ltr BM can take?

The manual states between 4-5 kg (I know others have proven it can take more for bigger beers), is 4kg really okay?


----------



## Dan Pratt

paulmclaren11 said:


> What is the min grain bill the 20ltr BM can take?
> 
> The manual states between 4-5 kg (I know others have proven it can take more for bigger beers), is 4kg really okay?



I have done a few 3.5% ABV beers using 4kg malt. No worries, I'd even suggest a 3kg would be possible.


----------



## Mick Gramoit

First Brew could not have gone any more smoothly, finished with a OG of 1.061 but with a efficiency of 84% (I got about 3 litres more than I anticipated). Will be brewing a lot more regularly with this bad boy.


----------



## dicko

Mick Gramoit said:


> First Brew could not have gone any more smoothly, finished with a OG of 1.061 but with a efficiency of 84% (I got about 3 litres more than I anticipated). Will be brewing a lot more regularly with this bad boy.


Great result on your first one Mick, congrats!!


----------



## dicko

paulmclaren11 said:


> What is the min grain bill the 20ltr BM can take?
> 
> The manual states between 4-5 kg (I know others have proven it can take more for bigger beers), is 4kg really okay?


The smallest beer I have done is a midstrength with 3.45kg of grain with no worries.


----------



## paulmclaren11

Awesome I have a house mid APA I want try out and was worried it wouldn't take a smaller grain bill. Can't wait to do my first one.


----------



## stakka82

You can get some serious volume out of the brau with midstrength beers... I have got 3x 21l full cubes on my 50 litre a number of times.


----------



## Coalminer

paulmclaren11 said:


> What is the min grain bill the 20ltr BM can take?
> 
> The manual states between 4-5 kg (I know others have proven it can take more for bigger beers), is 4kg really okay?


I'm regularly doing a 3.0% mild ale with 3.14 kg and end with 24L in the fermenter at 1.032 OG ( includes 100g sucrose )


----------



## tiprya

I've made a berliner weisse that had 3kg of grain and it seemed to work fine.


----------



## paulmclaren11

With these smaller grain bills are you still using ~25l for the mash plus sparge?


----------



## dicko

paulmclaren11 said:


> With these smaller grain bills are you still using ~25l for the mash plus sparge?


Yes mate, I am using the same volume as for any other beer I do....25 litre batch size


----------



## Coalminer

paulmclaren11 said:


> With these smaller grain bills are you still using ~25l for the mash plus sparge?


Yes Paul, same here. No change to water volumes at all. 26L + 7L Mashed the last one at 72C. sample tasted good but only kegged it yesterday


----------



## aamcle

I hope it's OK to ask a question here, when you lift the malt pipe to sparge how do you stop the grain being washed through the hole in the bottom filter that the rod passes through?

Atb. Aamcle


----------



## Dan Pratt

Just remove the top screen and filter and use your mash paddle to close it up/compact it a little. Put the filer and screen back on and sparge as usual.


----------



## aamcle

Thanks Pratty.


Aamcle


----------



## lael

I don't own a Brau.. But I thought if you lift it onto the sparge pegs the bottom hole still had the rod coming up through it?


----------



## dicko

aamcle said:


> I hope it's OK to ask a question here, when you lift the malt pipe to sparge how do you stop the grain being washed through the hole in the bottom filter that the rod passes through? Atb. Aamcle





Pratty1 said:


> Just remove the top screen and filter and use your mash paddle to close it up/compact it a little. Put the filer and screen back on and sparge as usual.


Yes, I have found if you remove the top plate and stir about half the depth of the grain bed you will actually gain a point or two because the sparge water will find a new path through the grain and as above, you wont wash any grain out of the middle hole.


----------



## Dan Pratt

Mick Gramoit said:


> First Brew could not have gone any more smoothly, finished with a OG of 1.061 but with a efficiency of 84% (I got about 3 litres more than I anticipated). Will be brewing a lot more regularly with this bad boy.


For the past year i have tried to crack 1060 with 5kg of malt and 21lt into the FV, that been the challenge.

how many kg of malt, what mash schedule did you use and final vol into the FV did you have?


----------



## Dan Pratt

Tonight I tried *6KG* on the 20lt to make a 1070 IPA - got 1062....damn 67% eff - usually get 78-80% with my 5kg malt bill......

mashded in at 20, [email protected] 62c, [email protected] 67c, [email protected] 78c - thining i should have mashed for longer. sparged 1st run with 3.6lts of 1045 and then another 3.5 lts at 1030

I was aiming for 21lts in the FV and ended with 20 and a f*ck load of trub/hops from the 225g added during the last 20 mins.


----------



## dicko

Guys,

Can we keep this thread on topic, the above info probably belongs in the Braumeiser Build thread.

When I get back to my desktop I will see if I can move your enquiry and answer over there.

Cheers


----------



## niels

Pratty1 said:


> Tonight I tried *6KG* on the 20lt to make a 1070 IPA - got 1062....damn 67% eff - usually get 78-80% with my 5kg malt bill......
> 
> mashded in at 20, [email protected] 62c, [email protected] 67c, [email protected] 78c - thining i should have mashed for longer. sparged 1st run with 3.6lts of 1045 and then another 3.5 lts at 1030
> 
> I was aiming for 21lts in the FV and ended with 20 and a f*ck load of trub/hops from the 225g added during the last 20 mins.


Did you stir the malt in between?

Niels


----------



## Dan Pratt

niels said:


> Did you stir the malt in between?Niels


Nah, I went out as usual when the mash is happening. It certainly would have helped cos the malt pipe was quite full, although it showed me that you could fit more in....lol. I will stir it next time and mash for a little while longer. 

Something that may of affected it aswell is mashing with 30liters which meant there was no flowing cascade wort over the rim of the malt pipe.


----------



## dicko

*MODERATION*


dicko said:


> Guys,
> 
> Can we keep this thread on topic, the above info probably belongs in the Braumeiser Build thread.
> 
> When I get back to my desktop I will see if I can move your enquiry and answer over there.
> 
> Cheers


Guys, I have moved the posts on Matho's controller to the Matho's controller thread.

Cheers


----------



## niels

Pratty1 said:


> Nah, I went out as usual when the mash is happening. It certainly would have helped cos the malt pipe was quite full, although it showed me that you could fit more in....lol. I will stir it next time and mash for a little while longer.
> 
> Something that may of affected it aswell is mashing with 30liters which meant there was no flowing cascade wort over the rim of the malt pipe.


I don't stir when having a "normal" grain bill, but when packed or using a lot of raw wheat/rye I do stir once or twice during mashing.

Getting the screen filter of is the most painful step in the stirring process 

Niels


----------



## Dan Pratt

Getting the screen filter of is the most painful step in the stirring process 

Niels[/quote]

The top mesh one? Why?


----------



## niels

Pratty1 said:


> The top mesh one? Why?


Because it is flooded with hot wort... I do this without lifting the malt cylinder.

Niels


----------



## Mick Gramoit

Pratty1 said:


> For the past year i have tried to crack 1060 with 5kg of malt and 21lt into the FV, that been the challenge.
> 
> how many kg of malt, what mash schedule did you use and final vol into the FV did you have?


I used 5.2kg of grain and got about 20L in the fermenter and 2.5L or so of trub. From memory I mashed in at about 35, then 10 minutes at 52, 70 minutes at 65 and 10 at 78. Also sparged /rinsed.


----------



## lael

OT: Can a Brau owner help out: How does the 50L Brau secure the short malt pipe in place? Is there a separate / larger screw thread further down the center shaft?


----------



## Wimmig

While I don't use the 50L version I'd assume it would just use the usual crossbar on the shorter malt pipe to secure it as per the other malt pipe usage.

Though I would guess someone with a 50L will chime in shortly and confirm or correct.


----------



## lael

yeah, I thought the center rod only has thread at the top though? so how does it clamp down the crossbar across the malt pipe halfway down the rod? (wingnut at the top... hence why I asked about a larger thread partway down - eg for a larger wingnut that is only for the short malt pipe... just guessing  )


----------



## niels

Wimmig said:


> While I don't use the 50L version I'd assume it would just use the usual crossbar on the shorter malt pipe to secure it as per the other malt pipe usage.
> 
> Though I would guess someone with a 50L will chime in shortly and confirm or correct.





lael said:


> yeah, I thought the center rod only has thread at the top though? so how does it clamp down the crossbar across the malt pipe halfway down the rod? (wingnut at the top... hence why I asked about a larger thread partway down - eg for a larger wingnut that is only for the short malt pipe... just guessing  )


The short malt pipe comes with a piece of pipe you slide over the center rod. Then you simply screw the wingnut on the center rod and the pipe will push onto the corssing bar.

Niels

EDIT: Found a picture online:


----------



## lael

nice! thank you niels! - funny that is exactly what someone suggested I do for my ridiculously long center shaft in another thread!


----------



## paulmclaren11

I am just finishing up cleaning my BM after it's maiden brew.

All in all, a pretty successful brew day - albeit much longer than my typical BIAB day but I did take things slow and hit a snag along the way. Ended up with 78% brewhouse efficiency and 21 litres into my cube (first time no chilling also).

I brewed a pretty simple Pale Ale - looking for ~ 4.5%, hopped with Magnum, Amarillo and Simcoe.

In summary:

- First time using my grain mill - ran the grain through twice as the first crush wasn't as fine as I needed. Went to about 1.1 mm which seemed to work well.

- Mash went well, did a 3 phase mash.

- Main issue was grain was coming out of the top screen - I think I have read this is an issue and will need to look at getting some rubber for it - spent a heap of time during the ramp up to the boil scooping out loose grain with a sanitised sieve - not my idea of fun for each brew. Any other tips from anyone on this?

- Used a hop sock which seemed to work out well, had a nice trub cone after whirlpooling.

A long day, but can't wait to taste the final product.

I learnt a lot off of here and youtube videos, made some pretty detailed notes to follow and they helped me heaps (happy to share them for any other noobs out there with their new toy).

Cheers.


----------



## Edak

78% BH efficiency is amazing! I only get 70% because I leave out all dregs from fermenter. I get about 82% mash efficiency though...


----------



## paulmclaren11

I use Brewmate and it calculates brewhouse efficiency on amount in kettle at end of boil and SG rather than what makes it into fermenter.

As stated I got ~21 litres into the cube which I am happy with as all I want to do is keg (no trub/break). Lost about 4 litres to trub etc.


----------



## Camo1234

I don't have the rubber seal around the top and only get the odd grain or two escape.... Just checking that you have the filter circle below the solid plate? Sounds simple but I stuffed that on my maiden voyage and after getting pissed that it wasn't working as I expected it to realised the error of my ways!


----------



## paulmclaren11

Ahhhh, no I had the mesh screen on top of the solid plate... Like it did with the bottom screen.

Will have to try this next brew, I wasn't pist bit obviously didn't read the instructions close enough.


----------



## Black n Tan

paulmclaren11 said:


> Ahhhh, no I had the mesh screen on top of the solid plate... Like it did with the bottom screen.
> 
> Will have to try this next brew, I wasn't pist bit obviously didn't read the instructions close enough.


I did the same first time. The top mesh should be below the solid plate and this will likely explain the grains breaking free. Onwards and upwards!


----------



## paulmclaren11

Yep, a quick consult of the old manual states to do this.... Oh well all learning!


----------



## stakka82

Also no need for a hop sock mate, let them run free... whirlpool works great in the brau you will trap >95% of them.


----------



## paulmclaren11

Black n Tan said:


> I did the same first time. The top mesh should be below the solid plate and this will likely explain the grains breaking free. Onwards and upwards!


Second brew down with the mesh below the top solid screen!

I still had some grain break free, but nowhere near as much as first time. 

I need to be more careful in making sure the malt pipe is dead centre when placing it in, I think that may have been my issue this time around as the screen at one side was slighty more open than the other (another rookie mistake...)

I will invest in the rubber seal I think, just for piece of mind more than anything - will hit up Clark Rubber or Marks Homebrew as I think he has them.

Loving brewing with this thing :super:


----------



## niels

Just started brewing 20l of quadruple with the 25l malt pipe.

Boiled my water the day before to reduce temporary hardness.

I have a day off so I'm also watching my 20-month old son. He's helping me out 
I'm confident all will go well as long as I keep it all organised 

Niels


----------



## wide eyed and legless

All you will get from Clark Rubber is synthetic rubber, in the U.K they use a silicone rubber seal but apparently they are a bit fiddly to fit, another downside is, if when you have the seal fitted the grain may not be able to push the perforated plate and the mesh upwards when the pump is on, meaning the grain remains compact and not floating causing a loss in efficiency.

The best way to fix the problem is fit another seal (same as the bottom seal ) around the top rim of the malt pipe, get anther piece of perforated plate with smaller perforations to fit on top of the malt pipe, I got mine for $10 then just clamp it down with cross tube and wing nut.
This will stop any grain getting through if you put the mesh on arse about and also prevent damage being done to the top lip of the malt tube


----------



## wobbly

My solution was a piece of muslin placed over the top of the malt pipe before the hold down bar was put on and then held in place around the outside of the malt pie by a piece of elastic from the sowing box when she wasn't lookin.

Works a treat any gain or husk that escapes past the top screen can't get past the piece of muslin and into the pump. Had this happen once and not again since I adopted this cheap and easy fix.

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## Crusty

After a lengthy consultation with two Electricians on the best way to deal with the 15A requirement for the 50lt BM, I gave mine a water test run today.
I added 55lt of water & set about programming the unit. I was a little stumped at first working it out but it wasn't too bad to figure out.
I set it for a 40deg mash in, 52deg rest for 5mins, 63deg for 35mins, 73deg for 35mins & 78deg for 10mins. Boil for 90mins & added some hop additions in there as well. As expected it performed flawlessly & maintained temps extremely well. The beeping sound is a nice feature telling you when to add your hops.
The boil was very gentle, very much like my Urn & if you come from running a 32jet Mongolian to boiling on one of these, you'd be forgiven for thinking you were simmering a poached egg. It is definitely boiling, just a nice gentle rolling boil. I would assume the boil will be a tad different boiling wort rather than just water as the wort should be thicker in consistency ( I assume ? )
Looking forward to doing my first real run shortly & if you are considering getting one of these units, go for it, they are amazing.


----------



## Andy_Chil

Hi all. Long time listener, first time caller. I am seriously looking at getting one of these babies. After reading through the 24 pages of this post, I was wondering if somebody could define "whilpooling" for me. I can find it in any brewing stuff I have. It is just stirring the cool wort for a bit? You answers would be appreciated.


----------



## warra48

Whirlpooling is simply stirring the wort in the kettle in a strong circular motion after the boil.
This allows the trub and hop residue to settle into a cone shape into the middle of the vessel bottom, supposedly enabling you to drain off clearer wort.
Some brewers on here have good success with it, others less so.
I don't have a Braumeister, so don't know if it's possible to whirlpool or not with one of those.


----------



## Rurik

warra48 said:


> Whirlpooling is simply stirring the wort in the kettle in a strong circular motion after the boil.
> This allows the trub and hop residue to settle into a cone shape into the middle of the vessel bottom, supposedly enabling you to drain off clearer wort.
> Some brewers on here have good success with it, others less so.
> I don't have a Braumeister, so don't know if it's possible to whirlpool or not with one of those.



Thats what I do on my BM20L


----------



## paulmclaren11

Wobbly that muslin trick sounds like a goer... onto my 3rd run of the BM and I am still getting bloody grain coming past the top screen. I have tried making sure the malt pipe is dead centre, but after each pump break I can see small bits and bigger husks getting though which means lots of sifting before the boil.

This has been my only glitch with this system (fingers crossed) so far but for the $$ this shouldn't be happening.

Will try some swiss voile that I have lying around as a filter next brew.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

I've never seen any grain get through mine. Are you all on the 20l? Maybe that's the difference.


----------



## paulmclaren11

Yeah running a 20 litre. The screens are not wide enough.


----------



## Rurik

I don't have grain getting through mine.


----------



## wobbly

Mine is a 20lt and after I got some grain stuck in the pump and had to empty the brew out to clear the pump and start again I thought never again and the "Muslin/Swiss Viol" has resolved the problem and never had anything stuck in the pump again

The "Muslin/Swiss Viol" always seems to catch a few bits of grain/husk on every brew

Cheers

w3


----------



## DeGarre

Crusty said:


> ... set about programming the unit...
> I set it for a 40deg mash in, 52deg rest for 5mins, 63deg for 35mins, 73deg for 35mins & 78deg for 10mins. Boil for 90mins & added some hop additions in there as well... The beeping sound is a nice feature telling you when to add your hops.
> ...


I didn't know one could set up the hop addition reminder beeps, how is it done?


----------



## Crusty

DeGarre said:


> I didn't know one could set up the hop addition reminder beeps, how is it done?


On my unit, you just enter your hop additions at the required times & the BM beeps when the time has been reached telling you on the display screen to add hops.
It does this for each addition that you set = AWESOME!
When I was Biabing, I would just watch the clock & when it was in the one minute or less range, grab the hop addition & watch the clock like a hawk.
Now I can be looking elsewhere & the beeps will let me know it's time to add.
I think this is a feature of the newer BM's. I'm not sure if the older models do this or not.
Edit: Beaten bu Rurik below.


----------



## Rurik

DeGarre said:


> I didn't know one could set up the hop addition reminder beeps, how is it done?


It is a function that comes in the newer units. Not on the old ones.


----------



## niels

Rurik said:


> It is a function that comes in the newer units. Not on the old ones.


Too bad that it doesn't beep when it starts the boil. This way you have to set the first hop addition at a minute less than the boil (e.g. boil time = 75min / first hop addition = 74min).

Or am I missing something obvious?

Niels


----------



## Crusty

niels said:


> Too bad that it doesn't beep when it starts the boil. This way you have to set the first hop addition at a minute less than the boil (e.g. boil time = 75min / first hop addition = 74min).
> 
> Or am I missing something obvious?
> 
> Niels


Can't you just do a 90min boil & set your first addition @60?


----------



## paulmclaren11

I have never (only after 3 brews..) had a stuck pump or anything, just noticing a lot of husks and grain particles getting through the top screen. I am more worried about boiling these suckers and getting harshness.

I could be half cut, but it seems my centre rod could be on the piss causing my screens to be off centre. Either way, I am going some swiss voile next time, the good wife has said she will make me something up that fits snug against the malt pipe,

Anyways, brew number 3 done on the BM and cubed. :beerbang:


----------



## Crusty

paulmclaren11 said:


> I have never (only after 3 brews..) had a stuck pump or anything, just noticing a lot of husks and grain particles getting through the top screen. I am more worried about boiling these suckers and getting harshness.
> 
> I could be half cut, but it seems my centre rod could be on the piss causing my screens to be off centre. Either way, I am going some swiss voile next time, the good wife has said she will make me something up that fits snug against the malt pipe,
> 
> Anyways, brew number 3 done on the BM and cubed. :beerbang:


I spoke to the boys at Grain & Grape who informed me that they had spoken to Ralph from Speidel & the odd bit of grain getting to the boil was nothing to be concerned about. You seem to be getting far more than anyone else from what you have been saying.
Contact MHB. He sells a rubber seal that goes around the filter screen if you are that concerned.
I haven't run mine with grain yet so can't comment on whether mine will do the same or not.
Others don't seem to be having the same problem
Hope you get it sorted.......... :beerbang:


----------



## dicko

When I got mine I had a bit of grain bypass the top plate but id didn't seem to worry the brew or the pump. My BM is 12 months old and it came with the s/steel mesh.

Anyway...
I went to Bunnings and bought a length of very small diameter silicon hose, and slit it down the middle, cut its length to the diameter of the plate and slipped it over the edge of the plate and the mesh.
It was a bit tight so I got a piece of course sandpaper and sanded the outer edge of the tubing to make it flat where it touched the kettle and to give it clearance. That worked OK for a while but was a buggar to fit on each time.

I went to Adelaide and while I was there I went to "Fitch The Rubber Man" and bought a length of moulded rubber which was perfect as a seal, just cut it to length and slipped it on.

I can't now for the life of me find the part number of the rubber but it is the moulding that is fitted along the edge of a fuel tank strap on a fuel tank from a truck.
I believe it is silicon based and is very durable. I am doing my 41st brew with it as I type and it is still like new.
I'll do a search on their site and report back if I can find it.


----------



## dicko

I rekon this is it here.....They have changed their website since I was looking last time.



http://www.fitchtherubberman.com.au/epages/shop.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/fitchtherubberman/Products/629-orm

From these pages here

http://www.fitchtherubberman.com.au/epages/shop.sf/en_AU/?ViewAction=View&ObjectID=6455222&OrderBy=NameOrAlias

the dimensions of my rubber are

Channel width 3mm

Outside width 5.6mm

Outside height 7.5mm

Check the dimensions with them before ordering


----------



## wide eyed and legless

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pressure-Cooker-Part-Gasket-Sealing-Ring-9-2-5-Inside-Diameter-/390510645537

This should fit a 20 litre but I still would have concern about the silicone rings impeding the movement up and down of the plate and mesh with the grain,

This is a photo of what I wrote of in a previous post another advantage of this method is when pushing the boundary of the content of the grist there is that bit more room to let the grain float by removing the top plate and mesh.


----------



## Coalminer

As far as the rubber size goes Clark Rubber has a lot of profiles and several of them will fit but only one of them is the right one that will seal and still let the filter plate rise and fall by itself and still seal correctly. This size is the one that MHB supplies and is well worth the effort of contacting him. A phone call is better than an email, by the way. It is not (and does not need to be) silicone.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

I accidentally bought a 20l BM seal when I should have got a 50l. If this is of any use to you blokes, PM and I'll send it to you @ cost incl shipping.


----------



## DeGarre

The black rubber seal I got from Mark's homebrew was tight for the few first brews and I did post in a couple of forums wondering if it would matter that the filter was not able to move up and down with the pump action. I found out it did not matter at all and then it somehow got slippery after a while anyway and started moving up and down.


----------



## dicko

My top plate and screen moves up and down with the action of the pump and I have had no problems with it.

Marks Home Brew in my observation does not answer emails, PM's phone messages and does not process or send items that are ordered.
I had ordered my BM with him originally but when I tried to communicate with him I found that he was not prepared to reply to my queries and when I did get to talk to him on the phone his answer was "I'll get back to you" but he never did.
Needless to say I then cancelled that order and placed an order for the unit with Ross at Craftbrewer and as usual, was treated in a prompt and professional manner.
That is the way he has chosen to run his business so I feel it is a very tiny inconvenience for me to source a rubber channel supplier and purchase from them.

Back on topic;
If the malt pipe isn't centred when it is clamped down it may cause the top plate not to move, so what I do is once I have dropped the top plate into the malt pipe I give the malt pipe about one eighth of a turn inside the kettle then tighten the wing nut and this seems to centre the pipe and the top plate generally just drops under its own weight onto the grain.

Hope this helps but I really can't see that it is absolutely necessary that the top plate move up and down anyway.

Cheers


----------



## doon

I wouldn't stress about grain unless you are getting massive massive amounts. I get some every brew and it doesnt worry pump or make beer taste like shite


----------



## Howlingdog

Pocket Beers can pick a Braumeister beer at a hundred paces with his eyes closed. He says that they have a grainy taste from small amounts of grain escaping from the malt pipe into the wort. Both Tallie and myself were pinged by Dave at a BABB's meeting last year. Dave used Ross' Braumeister for the ??wars for the QHC and then gave a demo at BABB's shortly thereafter.

So now I try to eliniminate any escaping grain from the malt pipe and especially dust getting into the liquor when loading the malt. I use a large funnel so that no dust gets into the liquor or settles on the rim of the malt pipe. The Copper hood accessory is the sort thing (but on the expensive side) "The Braumeister copper hood adds a professional touch to your 20 Litre unit. Well suited as a means to facilitate filling of the brewing malt into the malt pipe (when put in head first)."








HD


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

I call bullshit on someone who claims they can they can pick a BM beer on a 'grainy taste'. Happy to be proven wrong on a blind tasting, but at the moment colour me a doubting Thomas.

I have never lost much through the pipe but sometimes stuff up stirring the mash. I just run a kitchen sieve in a whirlpool after mashout and get anything that was lost.


----------



## Edak

Mr. No-Tip said:


> I call bullshit on someone who claims they can they can pick a BM beer on a 'grainy taste'. Happy to be proven wrong on a blind tasting, but at the moment colour me a doubting Thomas.
> 
> I have never lost much through the pipe but sometimes stuff up stirring the mash. I just run a kitchen sieve in a whirlpool after mashout and get anything that was lost.


+1 to bullshit


----------



## Dan Pratt

I have used a black seal provided by MHB since I bought the unit. At first when you put it on the mesh and plate its a little stiff but as the temperature increases the seal becomes primed/softer and can move up with the pressure from the pump no worries.


----------



## paulmclaren11

Cheers for the responses will source some rubber. I too have found Marks homebrew hard to contact.


----------



## Coalminer

For those not averse to phone calls

MHB 0249696696

From Tuesday 7/01/2914

edit...detail


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I have to disagree that it doesn't matter whether the filter plate is able to move or not, if it cant move up the grain is held in a fairly solid mass and the liquor is going to find the easiest route to travel which will be up the centre of the tube along the tie rod and the side of the tube, we haven't got the luxury of an agitator arm so if the grain bed is allowed to float with as much room as possible the more the liquor will wash through it giving a more efficient mash.


----------



## Dan Pratt

When I use the black seal, which is every brew. I only push the plate/mesh/seal into the malt pipe just below the thread so its at the top already. When the pump starts the plate moves only a few mm's. Sometimes its lower but moves right to the cross bar without hassle.


----------



## angus_grant

So what is the reasoning for the filter plates moving? My brau-clone will have a filter plate fitted to the bottom and a filter plate fitted to the top of the malt pipe. Neither will move up and down.

I figure there is a good reason as surely it just adds complexity with sliding filter plates.


----------



## Dan Pratt

Mine don't move either. Its been interpreted that they do....:blink:


----------



## dicko

wide eyed and legless said:


> I have to disagree that it doesn't matter whether the filter plate is able to move or not, if it cant move up the grain is held in a fairly solid mass and the liquor is going to find the easiest route to travel which will be up the centre of the tube along the tie rod and the side of the tube, we haven't got the luxury of an agitator arm so if the grain bed is allowed to float with as much room as possible the more the liquor will wash through it giving a more efficient mash.


My take on this with a genuine BM is that the bottom plate is quite free to move and therefore the grain bed "falls apart" each time the pump has a break and that plate moves back to the bottom, so in theory, the grains would be a lot more disturbed if the top plate didn't move. Of course if you pushed the top plate down onto the top of the grainbed and then it was jammed in that position the only movement you would get is the water through the grain, but wouldn't that be the same as the two plates moving up and down simultaneously?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

As I said in my previous post, the dynamics of fluids dictate where the liquor will run, be it up or down and it is the route which is less restricted i.e. the sides and the centre up the tie rod.
I would imagine the reason that Spiedel made 2 filter plates the same was to keep the cost down, it is 2 less operations in the manufacture if they didn't make a separate mesh and perforated plate for the top of the malt pipe.
I wouldn't be to sure that the bottom plate and filter move at all, I don't know.


----------



## Crusty

wide eyed and legless said:


> As I said in my previous post, the dynamics of fluids dictate where the liquor will run, be it up or down and it is the route which is less restricted i.e. the sides and the centre up the tie rod.
> I would imagine the reason that Spiedel made 2 filter plates the same was to keep the cost down, it is 2 less operations in the manufacture if they didn't make a separate mesh and perforated plate for the top of the malt pipe.
> I wouldn't be to sure that the bottom plate and filter move at all, I don't know.


I'm yet to do a brew on my new 50lt BM but I'm pretty sure the plates don't move at all during the mash.
The bottom plate is held down by over 10kg of grain & even though it's surrounded by water, I don't think it's going to lift off the bottom & slide up the rod.
The same goes for the top in my opinion. It's purely there to stop the grain from escaping the malt pipe.
The two pumps together certainly don't have the muscle to push them up in my opinion.
I've just run some water tests with mine & watching it do it's thing & having pump breaks, I didn't see any plates move at all.
It may be different with all the grain in there but I'd be surprised if the plates moved at all.


----------



## angus_grant

cool, that aligns with my thinking. I could not come up with a reason for the filter plates moving up and down.

I have only done 5 or 6 AG brews so figured I was missing some reason for the plates moving to maintain the grain bed for filtering or something along those lines.

Thanks chaps. I'll leave you in peace to chat about your expensive and drool-worthy German machinery whilst I cross back over the tracks to the cheap side of town.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

When you do your first brew Crusty the grain bed will move up and push the top plate up but it is interesting that the bottom plate didn't move when you did your trial run, also as Dicko pointed out the pump break lets the grain settle back down before pushing it back up again, so really that eliminates any need for giving the grains a stir during the mash cycle.

Another thing worth mentioning is that anyone who goes with a seal ring around the top plate and filter, as Coalminer mentioned it doesn't have to be silicone, but it would have to be food grade rubber or something else that is FDA compliant, and silicone would be the cheapest option.


----------



## paulmclaren11

On the seal, I called Mark's Homebrew today and he basically said just go to Clarke Rubber - that's the seal he sells with his BM's. It's the lightest edging they have (about 3mm x 5mm) C-section - need about 1.2m of it.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Crusty said:


> I'm yet to do a brew on my new 50lt BM but I'm pretty sure the plates don't move at all during the mash.
> The bottom plate is held down by over 10kg of grain & even though it's surrounded by water, I don't think it's going to lift off the bottom & slide up the rod.
> The same goes for the top in my opinion. It's purely there to stop the grain from escaping the malt pipe.
> The two pumps together certainly don't have the muscle to push them up in my opinion.
> I've just run some water tests with mine & watching it do it's thing & having pump breaks, I didn't see any plates move at all.
> It may be different with all the grain in there but I'd be surprised if the plates moved at all.


The top plate definitely moves up if you're using a smaller amount of grain. It moves up until it hits the crossbar. I see no evidence of any side to side movement though.


----------



## Crusty

Mr. No-Tip said:


> The top plate definitely moves up if you're using a smaller amount of grain. It moves up until it hits the crossbar. I see no evidence of any side to side movement though.


That's surprising.
I guess mine didn't do anything because I had no grain in there. When I said I didn't notice them move, it wasn't something I was looking for or focusing on so It may have moved a tad without me noticing it. I was more involved with running it through another mash cycle & doing a boil for a while at the end.
The boil on these things is very gentle & I got out my trusty digital thermometer & tested the boil temp. On the Braumeister control panel, I never noticed it hit 100deg, always 99 or 98 then back to 99. I have it set to 102 so it stays on all the time. I didn't sit there & watch it continuously so it may of hit 100 at some point.
The digital thermometer reads between 99.7 & 100 so it's boiling. I think my crown exposed element urn always read 98 IIRC.


----------



## Crusty

paulmclaren11 said:


> On the seal, I called Mark's Homebrew today and he basically said just go to Clarke Rubber - that's the seal he sells with his BM's. It's the lightest edging they have (about 3mm x 5mm) C-section - need about 1.2m of it.


Doesn't he want to sell you one?
I was going to call him about a pick up tube & maybe a seal for the top plate but I might not bother.


----------



## paulmclaren11

Didn't seem to want to.... just told me to go to Clark Rubber.

I just went, the smallest they had was 4mm x 5mm - will try this for a fit (was only $7).

You can always give him a call and see - maybe as you want the pick up tube he will package it for you?


----------



## Moad

I think I got the last seal MHB had, probably figures it is just as easy for you to get the stuff as him


----------



## Rurik

Or it is not worth his time to sell it. I mean he runs a business by him self at the moment and cannot get out of the shop, so rather then blow smoke up some ones arse he just tells the to goto clark rubber and get it.


----------



## paulmclaren11

Yep and I am in WA - much easier for me to get it.

My seal fits over the top solid screen well, but not both the s/steel mesh and screen which is what I have seen others do.

However this should still fix my grain escape issues - it's a tight fit in the malt pipe but I think once some heat and water are in it the plate will rise and fall like normal.

I still think my centre rod isn't straight so I will unscrew and have a look at that. Might scratch in a 30 litre mark while I am at it.


----------



## Crusty

paulmclaren11 said:


> Yep and I am in WA - much easier for me to get it.
> 
> My seal fits over the top solid screen well, but not both the s/steel mesh and screen which is what I have seen others do.
> 
> However this should still fix my grain escape issues - it's a tight fit in the malt pipe but I think once some heat and water are in it the plate will rise and fall like normal.
> 
> I still think my centre rod isn't straight so I will unscrew and have a look at that. Might scratch in a 30 litre mark while I am at it.


Don't tamper with the rod.
I'd just get a piece of wooden dowel & measure out 30 litres & mark that on your dowel.
Too easy.


----------



## paulmclaren11

I have been using a metal ruler from the 25ltr mark, as it's 1cm per litre to workout my water levels pre and post boil etc.


----------



## Dan Pratt

I measure with a metal ruler every brew to my required mash in volume. My 25lt mark is actually 26litres and we have all been throughbthat discussion already.


----------



## DeGarre

I just measure with a regular school plastic ruler: 11cm from the top of rod to the wort surface - 29L!


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Pratty1 said:


> I measure with a metal ruler every brew to my required mash in volume. My 25lt mark is actually 26litres and we have all been throughbthat discussion already.


I think the 25l mark is 30l isn't it?


----------



## alcoadam

In regards to the rubber seal - I originally went out and bought the stuff from Clark Rubber but never bothered to use it. The problem I had was I could smell the "industrial" rubber odour with these seals.
All the soaking in the world wouldn't get rid of the fact that the hot water I soaked it in came out tasting a bit....well, rubbery. Smaller water quantities than the brau, but none the less - still flavouring the water. Maybe they keep "food-grade" quality these days?

A course crush and a bit of practice and you'll rarely notice an escaped grain.

If u must seal the top filters then something silicon would be best (no idea where you'd find it). Or possibly buy a genuine malt pipe seal and mod it?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

http://www.polymax.in/silicone-edging-strip-translucent

The above link is one that I saw someone had got their edging strip part number 3018102


----------



## mason

So Ive just completed my 2nd brew on my 50lt unit. First brew went well, the only trouble i had was lifting the malt pipe out after mashing.
I ended up getting a sliding door track from bunnings for $40 odd bucks and rigging it up as a sort of gantry with a rope pulley system in store for todays brew.
It ended up working great, but what didn't work well was not fitting the bottom filter plate and screen before mashing in!!!
I realised just as the last of the grain flowed in . I stood there staring at my braumeister just hoping that some miraculous solution would pop into my head. 
Well after a couple of minutes of denial it was clear i was starting my brew day all over again. 
Im now making a check list so I don't screw up this bad again.


----------



## Dan Pratt

when you forget to put in the base plate and mesh screen...as we all may of done once or twice..cough cough...lol. :unsure:

grab your esky and start removing all the the grain with a kitchen strainer that you normally use for your noodles and when you have most of the grain removed, decant the rest into the esky...including the water ( i imagine you have an esky like i did )....give the rig a hose out. 

Replace with malt pipe inc screen and mesh and then transfer the malt to the pipe and the water that went into the esky....fill woth more water as required...then continue.

when it happend to me...made an awesome dunkelweizen!


----------



## mason

Pratty1 said:


> when you forget to put in the base plate and mesh screen...as we all may of done once or twice..cough cough...lol. :unsure:
> 
> grab your esky and start removing all the the grain with a kitchen strainer that you normally use for your noodles and when you have most of the grain removed, decant the rest into the esky...including the water ( i imagine you have an esky like i did )....give the rig a hose out.
> 
> Replace with malt pipe inc screen and mesh and then transfer the malt to the pipe and the water that went into the esky....fill woth more water as required...then continue.
> 
> when it happend to me...made an awesome dunkelweizen!


Good idea mate. I honestly couldn't think of a fix that wouldn't affect the beer. I'd mashed in at 66c and by the time would have figured that one out the whole mash schedule would have been way out.
Oh well, a big stuff up had to happen one day. I'm about 50 AG brews in with BIAB prior to the braumeister and hadn't really had a big stuff up to speak of.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Here's an approach if you are double batching and need to sparge about the grain line. It's a two person job and a bit precarious. I might look at getting a stable mount made for this purpose... The mrs is tolerable but I'm not getting a pulley in the kitchen!


----------



## Dan Pratt

I use a shelf from the fridge to Sparge on.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Pratty1 said:


> I use a shelf from the fridge to Sparge on.
> 
> 1389402634026.jpg


Brilliant simplicity. 

Do you ever find the sparge clinging to the rack and running to the edges? Have you checked if that coating is food safe?


----------



## Dan Pratt

Good questions. It does run to the side of the rail but the edges are within the perimeter of the vessel and the drips all go in. Food grade? No idea, I will look that up, if not I will get a stainless one from bunnings for 20bucks.


----------



## wobbly

I will work in imperial (because it's easy) but if you think about it a bit you don't need very much out put from the pump(s) to generate a quite a lot of pressure sufficient to lift the bottom plate and the grain

On a 20lt BM the malt pipe is about 12 inches dia so that equates to close to 113 square inches so if the pump(s) only produced 1 pound pressure then the pressure on the bottom plate will be something like 113 pounds force which is proberbly enough to lift the plate and a few kilos of grain

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## wobbly

What practices do other BM owners use to settle the trub at the end of the boil. I don't and never really have got a trub cone no matter how hard I try and I understand that in relation to pot size wider is better than narrower because of the dynamics involved.

Also in post 14 of the Whirl Pool topic Floran mentions that he has stopped whirl pooling and just lest the trub settle to the bottom and then because of the height of the tap from the bottom draws off most of the wort until near the bottom and then slowly tilts the BM to get a bit more out

What do others do and in particular those with 20lt BM's

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## zoigl

I use the upturned lid from my 50 l. BM to sparge, remove the knob first. I have a copper flue device as supplied with my BM, so the lid is pretty much useless.
I use a whirlfoc tablet 5 minutes before flameout/end of boil. I have an immersion chiller recirculating the water from my undergound water tank, and whirl the wort with a huge chef whisk, but i am not much concerned with trub entering my plastic conical fermenter. I have not had any off flavours. I completed a beer tasting course at TAFE so I have a rough idea what is an off flavour.
I also am of the opinion that the wort should be left to rest for 20 - 30 minutes after flameout and whirlpooling, and the trub allowed to drop into the centre, and then I dribble the wort into my fermenter, don't rush this step. I find that more trub than you want will stay with the wort if you open up the BM tap and let 'er rip, so to speak. I feel that it is better to leave as much trub as poosible in the BM, I made up a hinged platform ( I needed the extra height for my fermenter to go under the tap) and worked out a way of lifing the platform and wedging it at the "correct" angle for maximum wort to flow into the fermenter and leave the trub behind. Anyway, this works for me, others have tried different approaches, You will need to go back and sift through these notes.
Cheers


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

wobbly said:


> What practices do other BM owners use to settle the trub at the end of the boil. I don't and never really have got a trub cone no matter how hard I try and I understand that in relation to pot size wider is better than narrower because of the dynamics involved.


I have a 50l, so YMMV, but I find a whirlfloc at 10m and a strong whirlpool at zero works. I put a timer on for 15 minutes but usually get draining when my chiller is ready. Between about 10 and 15 minutes I really start to see the break coagulating and dropping down. I find my cone formation variable, but it drops well below the tapline in all cases. The only exception is super hoppy IPAs, and that's hop break. I suspect the variability relates to the grain bill, but I've not sat down to think it through.




zoigl said:


> I use the upturned lid from my 50 l. BM to sparge, remove the knob first. I have a copper flue device as supplied with my BM, so the lid is pretty much useless.
> I use a whirlfoc tablet 5 minutes before flameout/end of boil. I have an immersion chiller recirculating the water from my undergound water tank, and whirl the wort with a huge chef whisk, but i am not much concerned with trub entering my plastic conical fermenter. I have not had any off flavours. I completed a beer tasting course at TAFE so I have a rough idea what is an off flavour.
> I also am of the opinion that the wort should be left to rest for 20 - 30 minutes after flameout and whirlpooling, and the trub allowed to drop into the centre, and then I dribble the wort into my fermenter, don't rush this step. I find that more trub than you want will stay with the wort if you open up the BM tap and let 'er rip, so to speak. I feel that it is better to leave as much trub as poosible in the BM, I made up a hinged platform ( I needed the extra height for my fermenter to go under the tap) and worked out a way of lifing the platform and wedging it at the "correct" angle for maximum wort to flow into the fermenter and leave the trub behind. Anyway, this works for me, others have tried different approaches, You will need to go back and sift through these notes.
> Cheers


I'm a bit confused - you say you aren't concerned with trub, but you're being very patient with the tap to avoid it? I've not had issues with the tap on full. With a platey you're getting cold break in the fermenter anyway, and I don't believe a bit of hot break is an issue.

Your hinged platform - are you hinging to lower the tapline (more wort into fermenter) or higher (less)?


----------



## Dan Pratt

I'm letting the trub settle during the immersion chilling which is about 15 mins. Like above I have minimal trub or hops unless its a big hopped IPA. I turn the tap on full blast and that aerates the wort nicely before I cool in the fridge and add o2 and pitch.....sure would be nice to chill to pitching temps


----------



## djar007

I have a pretty identical setup to the braumeister . I add brew brite at fifteen Minutes and whirlpool at flame out . leave for ten minutes and through the plate chiller . Very decent cone left at the end.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

wobbly said:


> I will work in imperial (because it's easy) but if you think about it a bit you don't need very much out put from the pump(s) to generate a quite a lot of pressure sufficient to lift the bottom plate and the grain
> 
> On a 20lt BM the malt pipe is about 12 inches dia so that equates to close to 113 square inches so if the pump(s) only produced 1 pound pressure then the pressure on the bottom plate will be something like 113 pounds force which is proberbly enough to lift the plate and a few kilos of grain
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Wobbly


The out put of the pump is 15 k pa which is 2.175 psi but that doesn't equate to the pressure against the bottom screen because of the perforations and the space around the side of the plate, and I believe that is the pressure at the pump head.
Next time I brew Wobbly I shall check if that bottom screen does move, I would like to think that it does not.


----------



## Coalminer

Simple answer for anyone who thinks the bottom plate moves up when the pump runs-

fill the BM with water and no grain, turn on the pump, and you will find the bottom plate stays in position as the liquid is pumped through the holes.

The top plate will move up and down as the grain is pushed up and falls down during pump rests ( to allow the grain to loosen up and prevent/minimise channeling)

It doesn't have to fall down but need to be reasonably loose (otherwise Spiedel would have it fixed in place) to allow easy removal.


----------



## lylo

Pratty1 said:


> when you forget to put in the base plate and mesh screen...as we all may of done once or twice..cough cough...lol. :unsure:
> 
> grab your esky and start removing all the the grain with a kitchen strainer that you normally use for your noodles and when you have most of the grain removed, decant the rest into the esky...including the water ( i imagine you have an esky like i did )....give the rig a hose out.
> 
> Replace with malt pipe inc screen and mesh and then transfer the malt to the pipe and the water that went into the esky....fill woth more water as required...then continue.
> 
> when it happend to me...made an awesome dunkelweizen!


I have kept all of my old BIAB bags and will attest that they worked very well (both times) :angry2: for seperating the grains for reuse.

A 5 gal plastic bucket supports my 20l on the side pegs perfectly for spargeing.


----------



## Dan Pratt

Is anyone using a rotating Sparge arm?


----------



## whitegoose

I've just bought a Braumeister and will be doing her maiden brew this weekend. I've done a water-only run to get the hang of it but that;s it.

After reading the latter pages of this thread I'm paranoid about grain getting past the top filter - I can see there is a gap between the edge of the plate and the malt pipe... Initially I mistakenly bought a spare malt pipe seal from Craftbrewer thinking it was a seal/edge for the filter plate. I cut that to the right length and it would be perfect, except it is too fat and the plate won't go into the malt pipe without really forcing it.

So I went to Clark Rubber and bought some plain black rubber edging which fits much better... I asked the guy who served me if it was food safe and what type of rubber it was - he said he didn;t know, and that it was probably just natural rubber. Great help there.

Does anybody have any idea about whether I should be using that plain black rubber edging in my wort?

Or feel free to jump in if you strongly feel that sealing the edge of the filter plate is unneccesary!


----------



## alcoadam

Don't worry about the seal and don't fuss over a few grains getting out.

The gap you mentioned is probably smaller than you think, the mirror image of that fresh stainless is playing tricks on u.... :lol:


----------



## whitegoose

Just what I was hoping to hear! When I was looking at the gap the reflection was breaking my mind. Reckon I'll give it a go with no seal and see how it turns out.

Assuming a few grains get out - should I be taking the filter apart and cleaning it out after a brew? My Braumeister is the first system I've ever had with a pump so I don't know a lot about looking after them.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

A few grains getting past won't hurt, the pump impeller can move to allow any bits to get through, I personally wouldn't be using industrial rubber as a seal don't worry about it and get a few brews done before you start thinking of any changes.
Use the rubber you bought from Cark to cover the sharp edge of the feet.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

wobbly said:


> What practices do other BM owners use to settle the trub at the end of the boil. I don't and never really have got a trub cone no matter how hard I try and I understand that in relation to pot size wider is better than narrower because of the dynamics involved.
> 
> Also in post 14 of the Whirl Pool topic Floran mentions that he has stopped whirl pooling and just lest the trub settle to the bottom and then because of the height of the tap from the bottom draws off most of the wort until near the bottom and then slowly tilts the BM to get a bit more out
> 
> What do others do and in particular those with 20lt BM's
> 
> Cheers
> 
> 
> 
> Wobbly



I usually end up with 1 to 2 litres of trub in the 50 litre Braumeister. 
I use a hop sock if I'm doing a IPA, or anything with a fair amount of hops. At the end of boil I whirlpool for a good 3 to 4 minutes. Let it settle for 20 minutes then start pumping through the cooler.
I made a small pickup tube that fits in the outlet. The pickup tube has a piece of silicone tube around it that fits snugly in the BM outlet. 
When I do this I get a deffinit hop cone (when 0 minute addition isn't in the hop sock) after all the wort has been collected. I pore the trub into my 5 litre jug and collect around 1.5 to 2 litres and a good litre of that is just thick trub.


----------



## whitegoose

Maiden brew complete - and I have to agree - a rubber seal on the top filter plate is unneccesary. I got absolutely minimal stray grains, definitely no whole grains just a few bits and pieces that was not really eny different to what used to find it;s way through my BIAB bag.

On a side note - the boil is absolutely pathetic. In fact according to the display my boil period never actually made it to 100 degrees, and spent most of it;s time dancing between 98 and 99... it was boiling... but only just. Lucky I did a 90 minute boil.

Other than that complaint it seriously wqas a dream to use. I think I'm in love.


----------



## Crusty

whitegoose said:


> Maiden brew complete - and I have to agree - a rubber seal on the top filter plate is unneccesary. I got absolutely minimal stray grains, definitely no whole grains just a few bits and pieces that was not really eny different to what used to find it;s way through my BIAB bag.
> 
> On a side note - the boil is absolutely pathetic. In fact according to the display my boil period never actually made it to 100 degrees, and spent most of it;s time dancing between 98 and 99... it was boiling... but only just. Lucky I did a 90 minute boil.
> 
> Other than that complaint it seriously wqas a dream to use. I think I'm in love.


I was trying to decide whetether the rubber seal was worth it or not but I'm not going to bother getting one.
The boil is very gentle, even with the thermo jacket I have on mine. I assumed the boil would be a bit more vigorous but it's not.
Fear not though, it's definitly boiling & according to my digital temp probe, the boil reads 99.7-100deg. The display unit like yours, danced between 99-98deg & back to 99 again & mine never made it to 100deg either. It's a little hard to get used to coming from a 32jet Mongolian & then the Urn to the BM.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

whitegoose said:


> On a side note - the boil is absolutely pathetic. In fact according to the display my boil period never actually made it to 100 degrees, and spent most of it;s time dancing between 98 and 99... it was boiling... but only just. Lucky I did a 90 minute boil.


Where do you live? Water boils lower depending on altitude.


----------



## tiprya

Make sure it is out of the wind, that can kill the boil.

Even with the anaemic boil, I still get plenty of boil-off over 90 minutes.

If I want to boil stronger half-covering with the lid picks it up significantly.


----------



## whitegoose

Mr. No-Tip said:


> Where do you live? Water boils lower depending on altitude.


Perth - so I think I'm probably about as close to sea-level as you can get


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Perth. Hmm.

I had some concerns about my elements and wrote to Spiedel. They were pretty good. Pretty sure I posted this already 20 pages ago, but for what its worth:



> I first noticed a potential problem a couple weeks ago when I decided to do a boil off test using plain water. See this video:
> 
> It looks like the inside element is firing much stronger on one side - bigger bubbles than on the other side. There don't seem to be any bubbles coming off the larger element at all. I suspect this has been happening for a while but I couldn't see it until I tried with clear water.
> 
> Normally I boil at 98/99 degrees because of the altitude here in Canberra, but today I decided to see what I could do at 101 or 102, but the braumeister just couldn't get above 98 degrees with the lid off (I always take the lid off above 95 after getting a boilover once). It is a cold winters day here, but I do have the jacket, so would expect to be able to hit 100+.
> 
> In looking at my boil today, I saw similar issues to the video above - just one side bubbling and lots of hot break collecting on the other side.







> [SIZE=small]Could you please feel with your fingers if the heating element heats up or not. [/SIZE]
> [SIZE=small]Do this when its covered with water. [/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=small]It is not possible that the heating element heating only in parts. [/SIZE]
> [SIZE=small]It heats up all or nothing. [/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=small]Please fill up 50 ltr of water and see how much °C you grow in one minute. [/SIZE]
> [SIZE=small]It should be 0.6 to 0.7 per minute. [/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=small]Because of the altitude of Canberra (550m) a temperature more then 99°C is hard to reach.[/SIZE]


I tried this and met those numbers. With a lid on I could cause a boilover but could not get it above 99 degrees. Unlike Crusty, my thermapen always matches my BM exactly. I got back to Ralf mentioning that one element felt hotter both to my hands and then when they got too hot to my thermapen...



> [SIZE=small]The inner heating element has 2000 watts with a smaller surface like the outer element which has 1200 watts. [/SIZE]
> [SIZE=small]That explains why they feel different hot. [/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=small]The heating rate seem s to be ok. [/SIZE]
> [SIZE=small]And if you cover with a lid there will be some small pressure which allows a harder boil. (physical phenomenon).[/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=small]I can’t assess if the unit is slightly uneven. But if its is it will not be in context with the one side boiling. [/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=small]We also determine at our test units, that the boil is on one side harder. But I can not say why that happens. [/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=small]All in all I would say it’s nothing really strange.[/SIZE]


----------



## Crusty

Mr. No-Tip said:


> Perth. Hmm.
> 
> I had some concerns about my elements and wrote to Spiedel. They were pretty good. Pretty sure I posted this already 20 pages ago, but for what its worth:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tried this and met those numbers. With a lid on I could cause a boilover but could not get it above 99 degrees. Unlike Crusty, my thermapen always matches my BM exactly. I got back to Ralf mentioning that one element felt hotter both to my hands and then when they got too hot to my thermapen...


My boil is pretty identical.
Mine seems to be more aggressive on the right side compared to the left but I'm certain it's the nature of the beast.
It's nothing to worry about, it's definitly boiling.


----------



## Dan Pratt

Mine boils on the element from 12-4pm....that's not a metaphore either. Always wondered why its not boiling all the way around. 20lt rig.


----------



## bookworm1707

Just a thought for those guys getting a lot of grain in the boil. The solid plate has a tube on it. This should face up for the top and bottom plate.

I May be stating the obvious and if so I am sorry but just in case. If the top plate was the wrong way up it may sit too high and leave too much gap. I have never had issues with grain escaping. 20l version.


----------



## Batz

I've had my BM close to 3 years now, when I bought it from Marks Home Brew he supplied this thing. I use the fine mesh on my bottom screen only and this on the top, Ive tried both but this wins hands down, the extra material around the edge ensures a good seal on the malt pipe.
It looks a little stained after ship loads of brews.
I would like to find someone to make these up and have a draw string around the center tube as well. They really do work well.


Batz


----------



## whitegoose

Batz said:


> I've had my BM close to 3 years now, when I bought it from Marks Home Brew he supplied this thing. I use the fine mesh on my bottom screen only and this on the top, Ive tried both but this wins hands down, the extra material around the edge ensures a good seal on the malt pipe.
> It looks a little stained after ship loads of brews.
> I would like to find someone to make these up and have a draw string around the center tube as well. They really do work well.
> 
> 
> Batz


Yeah I reckon that would just about make the seal *perfect*. I'd probably still use the steel mesh as well.


----------



## paulmclaren11

I used my rubber seal from Clarky on the top screen today and it worked a treat. A few smaller pieces (flour almost) of grain floated through towards the beginning but no bigger husks like I was getting. I soaked it in Sod Perc before using and the industrial smell was gone.

Happy days and love the system! :super: Brew day is a breeze and loving no chill.


----------



## Batz

whitegoose said:


> Yeah I reckon that would just about make the seal *perfect*. I'd probably still use the steel mesh as well.


It would block if you did, been there.


----------



## DeGarre

Pratty1 said:


> Mine boils on the element from 12-4pm....that's not a metaphore either. Always wondered why its not boiling all the way around. 20lt rig.


Same here, around 2pm but I always thought it was because the hop spider was at 8am...I am brewing on Tuesday and I'll try putting the spider at 2pm.


----------



## MastersBrewery

Saw these pop up the other day maybe of interest for BM users as well :http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/77659-brew-kettle-urn-inside-dimensions-please/


----------



## beerkench

beerkench said:


> There's always quite a lot of wort left with the trub in the bottom after a Braumeister brew. Do you guys strain it, leave it or do you let it go into your FV?


I've been thinking about trying a food sieve or a large tea strainer. Has anybody tried using this method? The method of letting the trub stand over night sounds interesting too. I'm sure I can get more out of my BM as I am throwing away 2.5L of trub even after a whirlpool and hop stand. If I could get an extra 1L out of that 2.5L that's 2 beers!


----------



## Dan Pratt

When I started all grain I learnt it was quality not quantity. In saying that I too have thought of keeping the trub and chilling overnight and decanting that wort for the next starter?


----------



## niels

I just wanted to let you know that I created a forum dedicated to the Speidel Braumeister. It is in no way my intention to try and replace forums like AHB, but I've found that BM information is a bit scattered.

Besides a forum there are plans for a Braumeister wiki and some more BM dedicated tools.

Please feel free to join us at http://braumeisters.net

As with all forum launches, content is thin, but I hope this changes rapidly...

Prost!

Niels


----------



## Batz

niels said:


> I just wanted to let you know that I created a forum dedicated to the Speidel Braumeister. It is in no way my intention to try and replace forums like AHB, but I've found that BM information is a bit scattered.
> 
> Besides a forum there are plans for a Braumeister wiki and some more BM dedicated tools.
> 
> Please feel free to join us at http://braumeisters.net
> 
> As with all forum launches, content is thin, but I hope this changes rapidly...
> 
> Prost!
> 
> Niels



Nice idea, when your register it does not ask for a password, when you try to log in it wants one.


----------



## Batz

paulmclaren11 said:


> I used my rubber seal from Clarky on the top screen today and it worked a treat. A few smaller pieces (flour almost) of grain floated through towards the beginning but no bigger husks like I was getting. I soaked it in Sod Perc before using and the industrial smell was gone.
> 
> Happy days and love the system! :super: Brew day is a breeze and loving no chill.


I bought some of this to try, with it fitted I can't get the screen into the malt pipe, it's to tight.


----------



## dicko

Batz said:


> Nice idea, when your register it does not ask for a password, when you try to log in it wants one.


Once you log on they send you an email with a password and then copy and paste it into the password field.
I haven't worked out how to change the password yet but I will get there in the end.

Cheers


----------



## dicko

dicko said:


> When I got mine I had a bit of grain bypass the top plate but id didn't seem to worry the brew or the pump. My BM is 12 months old and it came with the s/steel mesh.
> 
> Anyway...
> I went to Bunnings and bought a length of very small diameter silicon hose, and slit it down the middle, cut its length to the diameter of the plate and slipped it over the edge of the plate and the mesh.
> It was a bit tight so I got a piece of course sandpaper and sanded the outer edge of the tubing to make it flat where it touched the kettle and to give it clearance. That worked OK for a while but was a buggar to fit on each time.
> 
> I went to Adelaide and while I was there I went to "Fitch The Rubber Man" and bought a length of moulded rubber which was perfect as a seal, just cut it to length and slipped it on.
> 
> I can't now for the life of me find the part number of the rubber but it is the moulding that is fitted along the edge of a fuel tank strap on a fuel tank from a truck.
> I believe it is silicon based and is very durable. I am doing my 41st brew with it as I type and it is still like new.
> I'll do a search on their site and report back if I can find it.





dicko said:


> I rekon this is it here.....They have changed their website since I was looking last time.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.fitchtherubberman.com.au/epages/shop.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/fitchtherubberman/Products/629-orm
> 
> From these pages here
> 
> http://www.fitchtherubberman.com.au/epages/shop.sf/en_AU/?ViewAction=View&ObjectID=6455222&OrderBy=NameOrAlias
> 
> the dimensions of my rubber are
> 
> Channel width 3mm
> 
> Outside width 5.6mm
> 
> Outside height 7.5mm
> 
> Check the dimensions with them before ordering





Batz said:


> I bought some of this to try, with it fitted I can't get the screen into the malt pipe, it's to tight.


Hi Jeff
This info may help you get the correct rubber to suit.
Imo forget clark rubber and go to Fitch the Rubber man in Hindmarsh ..... Very helpful people


----------



## paulmclaren11

Batz said:


> I bought some of this to try, with it fitted I can't get the screen into the malt pipe, it's to tight.


What size rubber did you get? I run a 20 ltr and the rubber is from memory 4mm x 5mm. Fits the solid top screen perfectly. Is a tight fit but goes in once water is filled in 
and worked fine for me on the weekend.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

beerkench said:


> I've been thinking about trying a food sieve or a large tea strainer. Has anybody tried using this method? The method of letting the trub stand over night sounds interesting too. I'm sure I can get more out of my BM as I am throwing away 2.5L of trub even after a whirlpool and hop stand. If I could get an extra 1L out of that 2.5L that's 2 beers!


I start my boil with 28.5 litres my loss to boil is approx 12% I put 23 litres into the no chill cube and am left with about 2 litres of trub as someone posted earlier you can put this in the fridge and decant in to your wort the following day.
I whirlpool and leave it to settle with the lid on until it is around 80 C before putting it in to the no chill cube.


----------



## Batz

dicko said:


> Hi Jeff
> This info may help you get the correct rubber to suit.
> Imo forget clark rubber and go to Fitch the Rubber man in Hindmarsh ..... Very helpful people


I thought I had the correct one Geoff, it's just too tight. I'll be back in Adelaide in March and Hindmarsh is just up the road so I'll check out Fitch then.

Batz


----------



## JoeyJoeJoe

How much grain has to escape before it ruins the brew? I lost about a handful yesterday after the mash (long story) I thought I scooped about 90% out with a strainer but I probably missed some... Any way the brew deffinitly tastes bitterer than I had planned but I dont know if that is because I over hopped ( 20grams amarillo @ 60,15 and 0) or this is the dreaded astringancy??

Thanks guys

JJJ


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I did a test during the mash cycle on the BM, after stirring in the grain I left the top screens off and secured the malt tube, fitting a sleeve over the centre bar, I wanted to see if the bottom plate would lift up, (lifting the sleeve with it) with the grain (if the little 8 Watt pump can lift 6 Kg of grain it may lift the bottom plate) fortunately this is not the case though it did lift the fine mesh.
I tried it a second time half way through the mash cycle the idea being the grain would now be saturated and more dense sitting on the bottom plate but again only the fine mesh moved upwards slightly.


----------



## lylo

Batz said:


> Nice idea, when your register it does not ask for a password, when you try to log in it wants one.


a

After you log in you will have a "profile" tab. Enter all your preferences and settings there.
This is lookin good!


----------



## DeGarre

Being very subjective but I think I stumbled onto a very malt-forward thick moreish but still balanced mash schedule.

Nicked it from braukaiser.com, an infusion Hochkurz -schedule. My 4.3% apa has around 50 ibus of magnum and cascade but it drinks like a 5.5% beer. I have been using this same schedule on my 4 brews this January:

mash in (5mins) at 55
40 at 63
50 at 70
15 at 77

Besides, before it gets to 70 the wort has been already super bright, and I got like 91 and 95% mash efficiencies. Any bitters or pale ales I'll just be using this from now on.

What a beaut!


----------



## paulmclaren11

DeGarre said:


> Being very subjective but I think I stumbled onto a very malt-forward thick moreish but still balanced mash schedule.
> 
> Nicked it from braukaiser.com, an infusion Hochkurz -schedule. My 4.3% apa has around 50 ibus of magnum and cascade but it drinks like a 5.5% beer. I have been using this same schedule on my 4 brews this January:
> 
> mash in (5mins) at 55
> 40 at 63
> 50 at 70
> 15 at 77
> 
> Besides, before it gets to 70 the wort has been already super bright, and I got like 91 and 95% mash efficiencies. Any bitters or pale ales I'll just be using this from now on.
> 
> What a beaut!


Nice one, I am often brewing lower ABV pales, what was your grain bill for this? I have a house Mid APA that I use Pale, Munich, Wheat and Crystal. Just wondering if you can still get a nice body with a more simple grain bill using your suggested mash schedule.


----------



## DeGarre

I used pretty much my usual "house" blend, munich 8%, 2-3% wheat malt, 4-5% various crystal malts, rest pilsner and pale ale. But this beer feels thick, a full mouthfeel.


----------



## paulmclaren11

Nice one will have to give it a go.


----------



## stakka82

Are you in the northern hemisphere there degarre?


----------



## DeGarre

Sure am, a balmy -9c after a week or two at -22...around 60° 47′ 12″ N, 25° 1′ 30″ E - too bad I am not a lager brewer...

But with this particular mash schedule I don't find much need to brew above 1042 gravity.


----------



## Dan Pratt

A few pictures of the seal on the top mesh and plate.


----------



## dicko

Hi Pratty 1
where did you get the rubber from?


----------



## Batz

dicko said:


> Hi Pratty 1
> where did you get the rubber from?


It looks the same as what I have, but when fitted the strainer will not fit into the malt pipe. It almost goes but it's to tight, and I have tried wetting it.
It's 7mm high and 5mm wide.

Batz


----------



## Dan Pratt

dicko said:


> Hi Pratty 1
> where did you get the rubber from?


When I bought the bm from MHB in Newcastle he supplied me with this seal. Its from Clark rubber. Measured at 7mm x 9mm sides.


----------



## Crusty

Pratty1 said:


> A few pictures of the seal on the top mesh and plate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1391904738317.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1391904773006.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1391904812427.jpg


Are you guys still using the fine mesh on top of the grain bed before the top mesh plate?


----------



## Dan Pratt

Crusty said:


> Are you guys still using the fine mesh on top of the grain bed before the top mesh plate?


Yep, the seal holds the mesh and plate together and seals.


----------



## Crusty

Pratty1 said:


> yep, i thought i got a photo of the flip side.


Yep! Should of gone to spec savers.
So you have the fine mesh held to the top plate with the rubber seal?
I heard a few people had trouble fitting it like that & asumed you would just toss in the fine screen as per usual then add the top filter plate with the seal on top of that.
Makes more sense obviously to have them placed together & held in with the seal.


----------



## DeGarre

I use the rubber seal to fix the mesh and grill together. The main reason I started using the seal was not because I got grain coming up the pipe and down into the wort but because when I placed the mesh first onto the grain and water I always managed to splash it down and grain got over the mesh. Having it fixed to the grill eliminated this, and before the seal I was tying the mesh to the grill with thin metal wire.


----------



## dicko

Batz said:


> It looks the same as what I have, but when fitted the strainer will not fit into the malt pipe. It almost goes but it's to tight, and I have tried wetting it.
> It's 7mm high and 5mm wide.
> 
> Batz


Hi Jeff,

When I got mine it was a bit tight so what I did was lay the top plate on top of the mesh on a flat surface and then note and mark the overhang of the mesh screen with a black texta.
I then got some good quality scissors and cut a small strip from the outside diameter of the mesh so that it was the same size as the top plate.
I then fitted the rubber to hold the mesh against the top plate and assembled it into the malt pipe on a dry run.
The top plate, rubber, and mesh moved freely inside the malt pipe.

If it did not move then I would be looking at the centre rod not being on centre in the kettle and causing the malt pipe to bind on one side and therefor stick inside the malt pipe.

Once you have done this you need to keep the top mesh in the top position each time you brew.

I hope this helps!


----------



## tateg

dicko said:


> Hi Jeff,
> 
> When I got mine it was a bit tight so what I did was lay the top plate on top of the mesh on a flat surface and then note and mark the overhang of the mesh screen with a black texta.
> I then got some good quality scissors and cut a small strip from the outside diameter of the mesh so that it was the same size as the top plate.
> I then fitted the rubber to hold the mesh against the top plate and assembled it into the malt pipe on a dry run.
> The top plate, rubber, and mesh moved freely inside the malt pipe.
> 
> If it did not move then I would be looking at the centre rod not being on centre in the kettle and causing the malt pipe to bind on one side and therefor stick inside the malt pipe.
> 
> Once you have done this you need to keep the top mesh in the top position each time you brew.
> 
> I hope this helps!


Hi dicko 
Does the top plate move freely in the pipe with the seal on ? 
The seal I have fits in the pipe but the plate can't move 
I have looked at clark rubbers web site but can't find the one you mentioned 

Cheers


----------



## DeGarre

tateg, it does move first poorly then better with use, but if it stays stuck it's not a biggie.


----------



## tateg

Yeah it stayed stuck the whole time 
Thought there might be a better fit


----------



## tateg

Sorry Double post


----------



## dicko

tateg said:


> Yeah it stayed stuck the whole time
> Thought there might be a better fit


If you have fitted the rubber as above and the screen still sticks it is probably because the malt pipe is not centred in the kettle.
Try the screen assembly in the malt pipe when it is NOT fitted into the kettle. It should just drop to the bottom or at least slide easily by hand.
The centre rod could be slightly off centre and this may be the cause. A large set of calipers, held on the rod and the side of the kettle will indicate wether the rod needs a slight adjustment. Be very careful bending the rod as the bottom of the kettle is very thin. I would not recommend this unless it is the obvious problem

I find by turning the malt pipe backward and forward in the kettle before fully tightening the wingnut helps to centralise the malt pipe. 
The screen will always be tight if the mesh is overhanging the diameter of the screen with the rubber fitted. See my post above....
Oh, and I got my seal from Fitch the Rubberman not Clark Rubber, the dimensions are in an earlier post.


----------



## tateg

It still won't move when The malt pipe is outside the kettle that's why I wanted to know which seal u used


----------



## dicko

The details for the seal I used are in this post here




dicko said:


> I rekon this is it here.....They have changed their website since I was looking last time.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.fitchtherubberman.com.au/epages/shop.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/fitchtherubberman/Products/629-orm
> 
> From these pages here
> 
> http://www.fitchtherubberman.com.au/epages/shop.sf/en_AU/?ViewAction=View&ObjectID=6455222&OrderBy=NameOrAlias
> 
> the dimensions of my rubber are
> 
> Channel width 3mm
> 
> Outside width 5.6mm
> 
> Outside height 7.5mm
> 
> Check the dimensions with them before ordering


----------



## Coalminer

dicko said:


> Hi Jeff,
> 
> When I got mine it was a bit tight so what I did was lay the top plate on top of the mesh on a flat surface and then note and mark the overhang of the mesh screen with a black texta.
> I then got some good quality scissors and cut a small strip from the outside diameter of the mesh so that it was the same size as the top plate.
> I then fitted the rubber to hold the mesh against the top plate and assembled it into the malt pipe on a dry run.
> The top plate, rubber, and mesh moved freely inside the malt pipe.
> 
> If it did not move then I would be looking at the centre rod not being on centre in the kettle and causing the malt pipe to bind on one side and therefor stick inside the malt pipe.
> 
> Once you have done this you need to keep the top mesh in the top position each time you brew.
> 
> I hope this helps!


+1 for this. Trimming the mesh to the size of the top plate definately works, provided you have the right profile rubber.
Really does not matter if the pipe does not slide freely but really helps if you need to remove it during the mash to mix up the grain a bit


----------



## dicko

Tateg,
Try putting the rubber seal on the top plate WITHOUT the mesh and see if that slides up and down in the malt pipe, if it slides then you need to trim the mesh screen as I described above.
As Coalminer said...provided you have the correct rubber.


----------



## tateg

Gave that a shot to, I have even made the rubber seal really tight by stretching it and then melting the ends, still is super tight .


----------



## dicko

tateg said:


> Gave that a shot to, I have even made the rubber seal really tight by stretching it and then melting the ends, still is super tight .


If it all fits together and the top plate doesn't move or is solid in the malt pipe, you will still make beer.
I cant help much more without actually seeing what is happening on your machine.

Where did you get your seal and what are its dimensions?
Why did you melt the ends?


----------



## tateg

Thanks Dicko 
the seal was from Clark rubber I melted the ends to loin it together so I could make the seal tighter in the hope it would help it to fit
the dimensions are about 8mm x6mm wide in kind of a U shape on the outside


----------



## Coalminer

tateg said:


> Thanks Dicko
> the seal was from Clark rubber I melted the ends to loin it together so I could make the seal tighter in the hope it would help it to fit
> the dimensions are about 8mm x6mm wide in kind of a U shape on the outside


Tateg - The outside dimensions are not critical. I was supplied with mine from MHB who gets his from Clark Rubber - give him a call
This was 9mm x 7mm in a squarish profile. The base of the *I*_*I* shape is 7mm and 1.5mm thick
*The important thing to remember is that the top screen is 3.5mm smaller than the malt pipe so the mesh needs to be trimmed and the rubber must be no thicker than 1.5mm*
This gives a nice 0.25mm all around theoretically but actually is a neat fit.
*Also don't stretch the seal at all* otherwise the ends pull apart. No need to join the ends together.

Cheers


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I am surprised a few of you are using the black rubber seals from Clark Rubber,having purchased a Braumeister, made with polished stainless steel and using a food safe rubber for the malt pipe, you then want to fit an industrial rubber seal made from harmful toxins and contaminants.
There are other things to use, Swiss voile, muslin or silicone, your goal is to make something that is pure and natural,not introduce toxicity into it.


----------



## Dan Pratt

wide eyed and legless said:


> I am surprised a few of you are using the black rubber seals from Clark Rubber,having purchased a Braumeister, made with polished stainless steel and using a food safe rubber for the malt pipe, you then want to fit an industrial rubber seal made from harmful toxins and contaminants.
> There are other things to use, Swiss voile, muslin or silicone, your goal is to make something that is pure and natural,not introduce toxicity into it.


I see what your suggesting but after 30+ brews with a seal - not once has it imparted a noticable flavour to my beer that would suggest it should not be used.


----------



## dicko

Pratty1 said:


> I see what your suggesting but after 30+ brews with a seal - not once has it imparted a noticable flavour to my beer that would suggest it should not be used.


40+ for me with a seal. I like not having to remove floating bits of grain from my wort with a spoon before I am game to turn my pump on for fear of a pump blockage......ahhh! peace of mind.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

It's nothing to do with taste,just because you can't taste anything would be foolish to think it is safe.


----------



## tallie

I would also be wanting to know if the material was food grade *at mash temperatures and pH* before using it. That would give me more peace of mind than having to scoop out any escaped husk material (which admittedly has never caused any pump blockages for me despite using the filters without any seal).

Edit: grammar


----------



## Black n Tan

I do not use seal and have never had a problem with grain escaping form the malt pipe. As long as the malt pipe is centred and the grains is crushed appropriately, there should be negligible grains escaping, and certainly not enough to block the pump or lead to extraction of tannins. So for me, if it anti broke don't fix it.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Black n Tan said:


> I do not use seal and have never had a problem with grain escaping form the malt pipe. As long as the malt pipe is centred and the grains is crushed appropriately, there should be negligible grains escaping, and certainly not enough to block the pump or lead to extraction of tannins. So for me, if it anti broke don't fix it.


Yep, that's my view too. Though I seem to pick up that most having problems are 20l users. Is that right? Maybe the problem is worse there. I have lost grain while doing a stir of the grain bed during the pump break and being a bit haphazard with putting the filters back on, but its neveer blocked the pumps and is easy to grab with a colander as you come up to boil.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Has anyone noticed how narrow the weld of the tap fitting is? Since I upgraded to a larger ball valve I have noticed myself bumping the tap and can feel a bit of give in the weld. One of the Canberra Brewers guys who welds was suggesting to me its pretty poor engineering to taper out from a weld like that. I can see where he's coming from - why not just have an opening the size of the tap thread and thereby a stronger weld?

To avoid what would be a very troublesome job requiring internal sanitary welds if I ever did bend or break the tap, I am thinking of trying to find a pipe that will snugly fit around the thread and have it reinforced against the BM itself.


----------



## Batz

Black n Tan said:


> I do not use seal and have never had a problem with grain escaping form the malt pipe. As long as the malt pipe is centred and the grains is crushed appropriately, there should be negligible grains escaping, and certainly not enough to block the pump or lead to extraction of tannins. So for me, if it anti broke don't fix it.


 I'm a bit the same, I did buy some seal rubber to try but there is no way it will fit my 50lt. Even with the malt pipe out of the BM it's just to tight. The amount of grain that does escape is very minimal so I think I'll just carry on regardless.


----------



## Howlingdog

BM 20 ltr here. Don't use any seal rubber. This morning only 3 grains escaped and lodged on the lip. I won't be bothering with a seal. Brewed a hefeweizen 70/30 and forgot to load rice hulls. Not a problem, goodbye to stuck sparges.

HD


----------



## tallie

Mr. No-Tip said:


> Though I seem to pick up that most having problems are 20l users. Is that right? Maybe the problem is worse there.


Good point. To clarify, I have a 50L. Though HowlingDog's experience shows there might be something else involved.



Mr. No-Tip said:


> Has anyone noticed how narrow the weld of the tap fitting is? Since I upgraded to a larger ball valve I have noticed myself bumping the tap and can feel a bit of give in the weld. One of the Canberra Brewers guys who welds was suggesting to me its pretty poor engineering to taper out from a weld like that. I can see where he's coming from - why not just have an opening the size of the tap thread and thereby a stronger weld?
> 
> To avoid what would be a very troublesome job requiring internal sanitary welds if I ever did bend or break the tap, I am thinking of trying to find a pipe that will snugly fit around the thread and have it reinforced against the BM itself.


Yes, I noticed this for the first time on the weekend! I was a bit concerned with how much movement there was when I accidentally knocked it. I'd be interested to hear how you go if you do get it reinforced.



HowlingDog said:


> Brewed a hefeweizen 70/30 and forgot to load rice hulls. Not a problem, goodbye to stuck sparges.


I made a beer with 17% Rye on the weekend with no rice hulls and a very full malt pipe (over 6kg in the short pipe). The main problem I had was with mashing in - it took forever to completely wet all the grain. I also stirred the grain bed a couple of times during the mash to even it up, as some parts ended up being thicker than others. I'm going for 40% Rye this weekend, though only in 4kg total. Looking forward to see how it goes.


----------



## Black n Tan

For the record I have owned both a 20L and 50L BM, and have not had any issues with grain escaping.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

A little bit of grain getting through will not block the pump, I am just concerned that anyone using a
synthetic rubber could end up with bladder cancer,like bowel cancer it does not show itself until it breaks out of the bladder wall, then it is to late.
Just not worth the risk.


----------



## Batz

wide eyed and legless said:


> A little bit of grain getting through will not block the pump, I am just concerned that anyone using a
> synthetic rubber could end up with bladder cancer,like bowel cancer it does not show itself until it breaks out of the bladder wall, then it is to late.
> Just not worth the risk.


Sounds rather unpleasant, post of mine #559, I'm going to find a nice lady to make these up for me.


----------



## paulmclaren11

wide eyed and legless said:


> I am surprised a few of you are using the black rubber seals from Clark Rubber,having purchased a Braumeister, made with polished stainless steel and using a food safe rubber for the malt pipe, you then want to fit an industrial rubber seal made from harmful toxins and contaminants.
> There are other things to use, Swiss voile, muslin or silicone, your goal is to make something that is pure and natural,not introduce toxicity into it.


I would have thought that as the rubber from Clarkes has a temp resistance up to 130c that a mash of 66c would be pretty safe? I could be wrong....

I have used mine a few times and never felt it was imparting anything. I was going to go for swiss voile and some elastic to secure it around the malt pipe and the elastic had more 'rubber' smell than the Clark stuff I have so I never used it.


----------



## Batz

paulmclaren11 said:


> I would have thought that as the rubber from Clarkes has a temp resistance up to 130c that a mash of 66c would be pretty safe? I could be wrong....
> 
> I have used mine a few times and never felt it was imparting anything. I was going to go for swiss voile and some elastic to secure it around the malt pipe and the elastic had more 'rubber' smell than the Clark stuff I have so I never used it.


What do they treat the swiss voile with? Is it meant to be food safe?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Swiss voile is safe it is just cotton,a natural product, I would stick to the non dyed though, just had a look on Clark Rubber they only list one item as non toxic and that is the kiddies playmats.
As for Batz thumbnails there are a lot more, the food containers, how many times have we taken an Indian or Chinese home, talking about takeaway food, and stuck it in the microwave, also covering something with gladwrap and microwaving it not good practice.
I had a guy who worked for me had a metal plate in his head, we had to keep him away from the microwave when it was on, if he got to close he would piss himself and forget who he was


----------



## Edak

Swiss voile is usually nylon when you buy it from Spotlight. I don't think that's an issue because it's not killed me yet.


----------



## Batz

Batz said:


> I'm a bit the same, I did buy some seal rubber to try but there is no way it will fit my 50lt. Even with the malt pipe out of the BM it's just to tight. The amount of grain that does escape is very minimal so I think I'll just carry on regardless.


Ok so I visited MHB on my travels and he showed me the sealing rubber, what I bought is not the same. The rubber I have is very similar, but perhaps .5 of a mm larger, so 1 mm on the diameter, that'll do it!

Batz


----------



## tateg

Batz said:


> Ok so I visited MHB on my travels and he showed me the sealing rubber, what I bought is not the same. The rubber I have is very similar, but perhaps .5 of a mm larger, so 1 mm on the diameter, that'll do it!
> 
> Batz


You didn't happen to get a photo of it did u batz?


----------



## Batz

Dicko posted a photo back in this thread.


----------



## MHB

Guys, I looked at rubber pretty seriously before I settled on one, its an EDPM rubber and under 150oC its pretty benign. you have to heat it until it starts to vaporise before there are any serious issues with volatiles.
The same rubber is widely used in heat exchanger seals in the brewing industry, but feel free to Google up a couple of MSDS and decide for your self if its a matter for concern, I'm not trying to make anyone use it tho I do myself - and I don't reuse PET bottles.
Personally I'm much more concerned about the amount of DDT in some Eastern European hops than I am about EDPM rubber, enough, look for your self and make a decision based on the facts.
Mark


----------



## whitegoose

Do you still sell them mate?


----------



## MHB

Not really, I include one free with new Braumeisters, the trouble with selling them is that I've never made a secret of where I get the rubber from, if I mark it up even to cover GST and the cost of driving to Clarke Rubber - I'm a robbing bastard for not selling it at "cost" and if I don't mark it up I'm going backwards. What you call a classic no win situation.
Mark


----------



## DeGarre

Very weird thing happened today when I started brewing, first time I ever had a scare with BM. The light didn't come on when I plugged it in, then it started flashing without anything showing on the screen. I disconnected the wiring then connected again, nothing and some flashing. Then it just came on as normal except it took almost 10 minutes to key in the values because the buttons were super sensitive to the touch and I was skipping many entries all the time.

My one explanation is there was some moisture somewhere in the connections. Or, BM was sulking as it has been a few weeks since the last brew. Seems like there was a reboot in the system because of the sensitivity to the buttons.

Everything seems normal now. An old saying "if you want to panic, panic early" still holds.


----------



## paulmclaren11

Glad all is well in the world again mate - I would panic too.

I think I have read somewhere else someone experiencing this - not sure what the outcome was.


----------



## real_beer

wide eyed and legless said:


> I had a guy who worked for me had a metal plate in his head, we had to keep him away from the microwave when it was on, if he got to close he would piss himself and forget who he was


Clark Griswold's brother-in-law Eddie had his metal plate swapped for a plastic one because of something similar I believe.


----------



## DeGarre

DeGarre said:


> Very weird thing happened today when I started brewing, first time I ever had a scare with BM. The light didn't come on when I plugged it in, then it started flashing without anything showing on the screen. I disconnected the wiring then connected again, nothing and some flashing. Then it just came on as normal except it took almost 10 minutes to key in the values because the buttons were super sensitive to the touch and I was skipping many entries all the time.
> 
> My one explanation is there was some moisture somewhere in the connections. Or, BM was sulking as it has been a few weeks since the last brew. Seems like there was a reboot in the system because of the sensitivity to the buttons.
> 
> Everything seems normal now. An old saying "if you want to panic, panic early" still holds.


The following brew and almost the same happened. When I connected the power lead. for a few minutes the power didn't come on at all. Then it started flashing again. After almost 10 minutes it just started working as normal, no problems from then on.

Very strange, I'll email Ralf at Speidel who sold my BM to me and ask him if I need a new box and if he's come across this before. 68 brews in exactly 3 years without a hitch. Perhaps where the lead goes has had some sticky malt or something...


----------



## DeGarre

Very fast reply again from Ralf, it is the capacitor (16v, 1000uf). Got instructions how to take out the pc-board and the capacitor is indeed like a small hill, not flat. One project that I will not take on is how to learn to solder those tiny things, so I'll send it to Speidel for them to fix.

Alas no burton ale this week...top marks for customer service though, no wonder the German economy is steamrolling all the other EU countries...


----------



## DeGarre

I'll send the whole control box to Speidel and they will change the capacitor and check everything and put in a new updated software etc. The whole electronics works.

Then when I get it back I will:

Brew another 70 x 24L of beer the next 3 years. Did some math. 1680L = 3360 x 0.5L "pints". 5090 x 0.33L bottles. Let's put some Finnish beer prices into the picture. From a shop 0.33L bottles at average 3.5 euros per bottle - and this is very conservative for a good beer - makes over 17k euros. If I'd prefer to drink in a craft beer pub and was downing regular 0.5L glasses at around 8 euros a pop that would be just under 27k euros.

No thank you. I'd rather pay 40 euros + VAT to have a German sparky to cast his beady eyes on my beautiful BM.


----------



## zoigl

DeGarre, thanks for the headsup. I wonder if an upgrade would be a useful thing to do. My 50l BM is a few years old now. Like you I find emailing and dealing
direct is an easy way to go. Let's know how everything pans out
Cheers
Zoigl


----------



## DeGarre

The reason I deal with Ralf directly is because he actually sold me the BM as in Finland they were between official dealers at that time.


----------



## zoigl

The reason I dealt with Ralph is that the only dealer in Australia couldn't get his act together, I reckon that I would still be waiting! I got a replacement pump impeller sent later as I found out that they do not bounce on concrete floors. :lol:


----------



## Howlingdog

zoigl said:


> a replacement pump impeller sent later as I found out that they do not bounce on concrete floors. :lol:


Same here, luckily I only broke one blade so it still works. I now dismantle over the lawn just in case.

HD


----------



## Batz

DeGarre said:


> I'll send the whole control box to Speidel and they will change the capacitor and check everything and put in a new updated software etc. The whole electronics works.
> 
> Then when I get it back I will:
> 
> Brew another 70 x 24L of beer the next 3 years. Did some math. 1680L = 3360 x 0.5L "pints". 5090 x 0.33L bottles. Let's put some Finnish beer prices into the picture. From a shop 0.33L bottles at average 3.5 euros per bottle - and this is very conservative for a good beer - makes over 17k euros. If I'd prefer to drink in a craft beer pub and was downing regular 0.5L glasses at around 8 euros a pop that would be just under 27k euros.
> 
> No thank you. I'd rather pay 40 euros + VAT to have a German sparky to cast his beady eyes on my beautiful BM.


So how did this all turn out?


Batz


----------



## DeGarre

Batz, the control box arrived safely in Germany but their sparky was on holiday so a slight delay to brewing plans and some damage to my pipeline. As soon as I get it back I'll brew a simple EKG single hop with pale ale malt and flaked oats - will let you know how it all goes.


----------



## DeGarre

Won't be long now, all fixed and ready to ship!

1. oatmeal pale ale EKG
2. burton ale/winter warmer
3. possibly a competition beer depending on what style is wanted, otherwise a boring brown First Gold


----------



## DeGarre

Arrived today. Heating up to mash temp now. V4.01A. Seems to work fine. The new software has 3 hop schedules to key in, handy to remind of protafloc also.
The ventilation cycle in the beginning has definitely changed.

Brewing an oatmeal pale ale with EKG today. Happy days - the dry times are over.


----------



## doon

Bloody hell how do we update it apart from sending back!


----------



## niels

doon said:


> Bloody hell how do we update it apart from sending back!


I'm pretty sure you can't... You need the binary files of the firmware to be able to flash the chip.

Unless of course someone wants to donate his freshly updated control box to someone who can dump the chips contents 

- Niels


----------



## DeGarre

I am taking part in a competition where I need to brew a min 1070°/7.5% DIPA. I don't wish to use too much sugar so I am thinking about a double mash which I've never done before. The grist half half and the 1st batch as single temperature then some steps for the 2nd. I'll also boil for 90 minutes so that'll help too.

Then I stumbled onto this in the internets, shameless copy paste:

I was mailing with one of the Speidel-people and according to him:
- the BM 50L is a 85L vessel
- you can brew up to 70L with it, via double mashing
- after malt pipe is filled, up to 70L of water can be added. 
"You can overfill also the malt pipe so that the water level is higher then the malt pipe. So you have no overflow, but the circulation will still be going on."

The mind boggles. Anyone tried this?


----------



## zoigl

Let us know how you get on, it sounds amazing.


----------



## wobbly

DeGarre said:


> _I am taking part in a competition where I need to brew a min 1070°/7.5% DIPA. I don't wish to use too much sugar so I am thinking about a double mash which I've never done before. The grist half half and the 1st batch as single temperature then some steps for the 2nd. I'll also boil for 90 minutes so that'll help too._
> 
> _Then I stumbled onto this in the internets, shameless copy paste:_
> 
> _I was mailing with one of the Speidel-people and according to him:
> - the BM 50L is a 85L vessel
> - you can brew up to 70L with it, via double mashing
> - after malt pipe is filled, up to 70L of water can be added.
> "You can overfill also the malt pipe so that the water level is higher then the malt pipe. So you have no overflow, but the circulation will still be going on."_
> 
> _The mind boggles. Anyone tried this?_


It's basically "full volume" mashing similar to what I understand you do in BIAB. I have also shamlessly copied this from the Braumeister Forum. Even though the malt pipe is "overflowing" the liquid still circulates up through the mash and down the outside of the malt pipe


_That is what we are talking about. Over filling. Using the full volume of water in the vessel.
These are the steps that I use.
Fill the BM with the volume of water I calculate I will need.
Heat to dough in temp.
drain down to about 25l.
Dough in.
Refill the BM with water with the water that you drained off. This will be close to the top of the vessel
Mash as usual.
Carefully remove the hold down nut and bar.( I use silicone glove for this)
Remove malt pipe and set aside to drain.
Start ramping to boil.
Pour draining into boil and proceed as usual._

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## DeGarre

Wobbly, my only worry is if the grain escapes into the wort. Although I do have a seal on top.


----------



## wobbly

DeGarre

Not sure how the grain could escape into the wort as it would have to get past the top filter plate which is in place just as per normal operation

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## stevemc32

I did a back to back test of full volume mash vs small sparge (grain wash) on my Fakemeister a couple of weeks ago to see what sort of difference I'd get. The sparge volume was 3.6 litre and sized to match the expected boil off.

The end result was that the full volume mash was a good 5% down on full system efficiency but made for an easier brew. 

If you're not approaching the limits of your malt pipe it's a good way to save a bit of effort at the cost of a bit more grain.


----------



## SnakeDoctor

So what kind of volumes are the 20L Braumeister punters able to get via overfilling?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

DeGarre if you are only talking about a few grains getting past the filter it shouldn't matter, the impeller moves as it is not a direct drive, they should pass through the pump, if you are getting a lot of grain passing the filter, scrap the filter and plate and make a mesh and plate to fit over the top of the malt pipe, nothing will get past then.


----------



## DeGarre

Yes, one could tie a net or something on top of the malt pipe couldn't one?

I'll definitely try it sometime when I'll brew a stronger beer, but first I want to try a double mash, later this week in fact. 1075° is the target so not that high actually.


----------



## SnakeDoctor

Anyone found their malt pipe rod is slightly off centre? 

Appears to be affecting the filter clearance (end up with grain in wort). 

The spacers on the malt pipe are up against the outside of the unit on one side and a few mm gap on the other for example.

This is my first time using the unit so go easy please


----------



## Black n Tan

SnakeDoctor said:


> Anyone found their malt pipe rod is slightly off centre?
> 
> Appears to be affecting the filter clearance (end up with grain in wort).
> 
> The spacers on the malt pipe are up against the outside of the unit on one side and a few mm gap on the other for example.
> 
> This is my first time using the unit so go easy please


Just move the malt pipe slightly when the filter plates are in place to centre it and make the gap even on all sides.


----------



## tiprya

I put the first filter into the malt pipe before putting it in, allows you to line it up perfectly with the rod.


----------



## Batz

Or perhaps your malt pipe is a little out of round? Do you have a gap if you place the filter in while not fitted on the center rod?

Quite easy to fix if that's your problem.

Batz


----------



## SnakeDoctor

Thanks for the ideas, doesn't appear to be out of round as its centred at the bottom of the pipe and if I move the rod whilst holding the malt pipe down I can centre the filter. 

I ended up just tightening the bar down whilst putting a bit of sideways pressure on it, stopped any further grains leaking, didn't do anything of course for the ones that had already escaped but hopefully no worries about that.

Might look into making up one of those MHB style seals.


----------



## Black n Tan

I really don't get it. The filter is somewhat fixed in position by the centre rod, but the mash pipe has plenty of play. So the mash pipe goes in and when you drop the filters in you shimmy the mash pipe over until the filter has an even spacing around it. Done, no stray grains, so need for a silicon seal. It works exactly as the german engineers intended.


----------



## SnakeDoctor

Black n Tan said:


> I really don't get it. The filter is somewhat fixed in position by the centre rod, but the mash pipe has plenty of play. So the mash pipe goes in and when you drop the filters in you shimmy the mash pipe over until the filter has an even spacing around it. Done, no stray grains, so need for a silicon seal. It works exactly as the german engineers intended.


I'm probably doing a poor job of explaining, but the angle between the bottom and the rod is not 90 degrees like you would expect (and is required by the design).





Here is an exaggerated cross-section via mspaint.


----------



## Black n Tan

Got it. If that is the case and it is new I would be talking with the retailer.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

As the tie rod is secured to thin a thin stainless base it looks like you have a small buckle of the plate, it should be fine as Black n Tan said previously, because of the thin base I would imagine a lot of the rods seem off centre, the malt tube should put it back in alignment then just tighten up.
I have posted this pic before but maybe on a different thread but it will alleviate the problem of grain getting through.


----------



## niels

wide eyed and legless said:


> As the tie rod is secured to thin a thin stainless base it looks like you have a small buckle of the plate, it should be fine as Black n Tan said previously, because of the thin base I would imagine a lot of the rods seem off centre, the malt tube should put it back in alignment then just tighten up.
> I have posted this pic before but maybe on a different thread but it will alleviate the problem of grain getting through.


Is it just me or does it look like your malt pipe is up side down? The orange seal must be at the bottom of the pipe...

- Niels


----------



## Batz

niels said:


> Is it just me or does it look like your malt pipe is up side down? The orange seal must be at the bottom of the pipe...
> 
> - Niels


I didn't even notice that until now, funny. 

Batz


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

niels said:


> Is it just me or does it look like your malt pipe is up side down? The orange seal must be at the bottom of the pipe...
> 
> - Niels


Awshii!


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

I did a 50l brew today with 9.3kg of grain with the big pipe. I have only used it a handful of times, because I normally brew single batches.

9.3kg is within the range for the big pipe, but there was a good 8cm of float for the top filter till it hit the bar during pumping. Possibly because this was a hefe and the wheat grain takes up less space than the husky barley? I am sure I've done around 9kg of grain before without the mash sitting so low.

I found that for the first time, I had a decent amount of grain coming out. When I picked up the filter to do an efficiency stir, I noticed a decent amount of smaller grains above the mess but below the hard filter. I think the extra space in the loose mash was allowing this to happen. I am contemplating getting some washers to make a smaller version of the 25l pipe spacer to avoid this happening in the future. Thoughts?


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Annnnd...just separating two thoughts into two posts:

Today's much looser mash of 9.3kg in the big pipe compared to my previous IPA brew where I put 6.15k in the small malt pipe which was a fairly tight fit. There was an 8% efficiencey difference between the two brews. I know there can be a range of factors in efficiency, but has anyone else noticed better efficiency when your malt pipe is more loosely packed?


----------



## Black n Tan

Mr. No-Tip said:


> Annnnd...just separating two thoughts into two posts:
> 
> Today's much looser mash of 9.3kg in the big pipe compared to my previous IPA brew where I put 6.15k in the small malt pipe which was a fairly tight fit. There was an 8% efficiencey difference between the two brews. I know there can be a range of factors in efficiency, but has anyone else noticed better efficiency when your malt pipe is more loosely packed?


That is consistent with my experience. When I pack 13kg into the mash my efficiency drop by a few points compared to a normal 10kg batch. I factor that into the recipe design and tend to sparge with more water, when I push the grain amount to the limit, to try and reduce my efficiency losses.


----------



## Black n Tan

Mr. No-Tip said:


> I did a 50l brew today with 9.3kg of grain with the big pipe. I have only used it a handful of times, because I normally brew single batches.
> 
> 9.3kg is within the range for the big pipe, but there was a good 8cm of float for the top filter till it hit the bar during pumping. Possibly because this was a hefe and the wheat grain takes up less space than the husky barley? I am sure I've done around 9kg of grain before without the mash sitting so low.
> 
> I found that for the first time, I had a decent amount of grain coming out. When I picked up the filter to do an efficiency stir, I noticed a decent amount of smaller grains above the mess but below the hard filter. I think the extra space in the loose mash was allowing this to happen. I am contemplating getting some washers to make a smaller version of the 25l pipe spacer to avoid this happening in the future. Thoughts?


May be try throwing in a few handfuls of rice hulls on top of the grain when you are using wheat and see if that helps blocks the smaller grains getting past the filter. If I am using significant amounts of wheat I use rice hulls and haven't noticed any significant grains getting post the top filter.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Black n Tan said:


> May be try throwing in a few handfuls of rice hulls on top of the grain when you are using wheat and see if that helps blocks the smaller grains getting past the filter. If I am using significant amounts of wheat I use rice hulls and haven't noticed any significant grains getting post the top filter.


Not a bad idea, I'd always thought if hulls loosening up wheat, but maybe they can lock em down, too...


----------



## wide eyed and legless

niels said:


> Is it just me or does it look like your malt pipe is up side down? The orange seal must be at the bottom of the pipe...
> 
> - Niels


No it is not upside down I have a seal on the top as well as the bottom and have made a filter plate to fit over the top, two purposes for this, more room for the grain, and to stop grain finding any gaps.


----------



## malt and barley blues

Consider that copied


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

wide eyed and legless said:


> No it is not upside down I have a seal on the top as well as the bottom and have made a filter plate to fit over the top, two purposes for this, more room for the grain, and to stop grain finding any gaps.


Iiinteresting. Not sure I get the filter plate bit. You machined one yourself, or you're using it upside down so it gets that one inch higher?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Made it myself, I also have a thicker perforated plate which goes over the top, the perforated plate I cut with stainless steel cutting disc and the filter I used a nibbler.


----------



## zoigl

Regarding adding rice hulls... I read of a previous post by someone unknown to me, that he made a tea of rice hulls. That got me experimenting.
The night before I brew, I take a 5 litre jug, add 2 litres (volume) of dry rice hulls, then add 2 kitchen kettles of boiling water.
Rice hulls have a really bad smell, and soaking in boiling water overnight seems to soak out this smell. 
I have a conical sieve which fits my SS bucket, I pour the lot into the sieve.
A further benefit is that the wet rice hulls sink immediately with the grain into the malt pipe.
Usually I do 3 additions one at the start of adding the crushed grain, one midway and a final addition before adding the top filter upside down, I cut a copper tube the same size as the SS tube on the filter.


----------



## micblair

I just did a brew with both mesh screens on the bottom of the malt pipe (mashed-in and realised I was a screen short...amongst other things), ran the brew without it and couldn't report of any ill effects. I would be curious if its even a requirement at all? Seems like if you have the right crush, the husks do a perfectly good job as acting like a screen anyways.


----------



## zoigl

Hi Brew Master
I am curious as to whether or not you had the filter screen on top and that you left the fine mesh screens on the bottom. I have an early BM which uses cloth filters over the SS mesh screens. 
I have had geysers shooting up when using a high proportion of wheat in the grain bill. So I now use rice hulls because wheat has very little husk to act as a filter. The rice hulls help separate the grain/mash when the pumps are working.
I have found with my pumps that it takes very small amount of grain to block them or at least slow them down.


----------



## lael

I'm curious, what is a high % of wheat?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Hi Zoigi,

I bought the perforated plate 3 mm thk and the 1 mm filter mesh as off cuts from from Geordie I cut them to size and in the photo I have only the filter mesh on the top as I wanted to see what would happen without the 3 mm perforated plate and what happened is what I expected and that is the 1 mm mesh started to bend with the pressure of the grain so the perforated plate is necessary.
I don't see why you couldn't carry on using a fabric mesh screen as long as it covers the top of the malt pipe and just use a perforated plate over the top of that, in fact it would be just as effective and cheaper.
The rubber seal ring I put on the top of the malt pipe I bought before I had altered anything, as I do have a strong grip and noticed that I had put a dent either side of the malt pipe where the tie bar went so I didn't want to damage it further.


----------



## micblair

@zoigl -- mash screens were both on the bottom. Also, check your gap setting if your getting wort fountains. 

@lael -- no wheat, just barley. 

I wouldn't be surprised if you could do away with the bottom screens too, given the direction of flow.


----------



## zoigl

Hi micblair, 
I have used 50% wheat
The cloth filters work like a charm, they were original equipment. I sewed some bias binding tape around the edge and have a draw-string to keep it tight. Over time, the hole in the middle became enlarged, so I got a kitchen sink strainer and drilled a hole in the centre. I hold this in place with a slice of silica tube. I found that putting the top perforated disk on upside down works the best for me. I made a spacer from some copper tube to make up for the plate being upside down.
zoigl is a rare Bavarian beer, I like making these types of beers. Zoigl beers are limited to around 5 small villages.


----------



## lael

Wow. 50% is a lot. What does that taste like?


----------



## Batz

lael said:


> Wow. 50% is a lot. What does that taste like?


Wheat beer? :icon_vomit: :icon_vomit:


----------



## lael

Haha  not normally that high % tho?


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

I think the old pumps were a lot weaker than what they are selling now. Mine was bought in mid 2012 and came with mesh, so newer than the cloth ones, but I had lots of pump issues. Spiedel replaced both and they are awesome now. Seem to be unperturbed by a bit of grain.


----------



## alcoadam

lael said:


> Haha  not normally that high % tho?



Minimum for a german wheat...


----------



## lael

oh really? How high do they go? Any commercial styles that use that high a %age I can try? Does using that high a proportion result in stuck sparges etc in non- BM mashing? anyone actually managed a stuck sparge in a BM?


----------



## Black n Tan

He's on the money. A german wheat beer according to the german purity law must contain a minimum of 50% wheat malt. I haven't gone above 50% wheat yet in the BM, but if I use a significant portion of wheat I also add a few handfuls of rice hulls rather than risk a wort fountain or stuck sparge. My second to next brew will be an american wheat with 60% wheat (50% malted/10% torrified).


----------



## dicko

I made a robust porter today with close to 6 kg of grain including 100gr of flaked barley in my 20 l BM.
I doughed in at 38 and was letting it ramp to 66 for the first rest.
I noticed that there was very little flow over the side of the malt pipe when the pump started so I paused the program and stirred in one handful of pre washed rice hulls.
The flow from then on was noticeably better with the pump handling the flow quite easily.
While I don't like rice hulls I do feel that they are beneficial to any mash including the mash on the BM.


----------



## Dan Pratt

On the weekend I found that my pump impeller was quite grotty due to a clean I done a week ago. I cleaned the BM by boiling for 30mins with CS, then after rinsing out I forgot to open the pump like you would when you finish a boil.

Anyway the gunk that came of the elements has well set into the pump impeller and I was thinking of boiling the impeller for 10-15mins, would that be ok?


----------



## malt and barley blues

Shouldn't have a problem with that Pratty1


----------



## zoigl

So long as it is clean of visible grot, the impeller should be OK with out the need to boil it. 
You boil the wort anyway, so that will sanitize the impeller.
Also after each brew, I like to fill the BM 3/4 full, bring the temperature to 70c, and add Napisan or PBW for a soak10 - 15 minutes before draining off. I like to use dish scrubbers to clean the elements as it drains.
Napisan seems to work just as well as PBW and at a fraction of the price, seems to me to be a no brainer, especially when one of the big rip off supermarkets have it on special.
A final fill/rinse/drain using clean water and it gets packed away til next brew. You don't want any residue from the Napisan tainting the next batch. -_- edited to make this aspect clearer.
I take my pumps apart after each brew and leave them open to dry off overnight.
Check the tap is clean with a bottle brush.
The only problem that I've had with the pumps is when I dropped an impeller on the concrete floor, a blade broke off, I keep it as a spare. Sometimes one of them hums a bit, but I put this down to a bit of grain getting caught.
I have a very fine sieve from the Asian grocery store and watch the wort very carefully for stray grain when I first start up.


----------



## Dan Pratt

zoigl said:


> So long as it is clean of visible grot, the impeller should be OK with out the need to boil it.
> You boil the wort anyway, so that will sanitize the impeller.
> Also after each brew, I like to fill the BM 3/4 full, bring the temperature to 70c, and add Napisan or PBW for a soak10 - 15 minutes before draining off. I like to use dish scrubbers to clean the elements as it drains.
> Napisan seems to work just as well as PBW and at a fraction of the price, seems to me to be a no brainer, especially when one of the big rip off supermarkets have it on special.
> A final fill with clean water and it gets packed away til next brew.
> I take my pumps apart after each brew and leave them open to dry off overnight.
> Check the tap is clean with a bottle brush.
> The only problem that I've had with the pumps is when I dropped an impeller on the concrete floor, a blade broke off, I keep it as a spare. Sometimes one of them hums a bit, but I put this down to a bit of grain getting caught.
> I have a very fine sieve from the Asian grocery store and watch the wort very carefully for stray grain when I first start up.


thanks for the tips, ive been using Caustic Soda for cleaning and its not friendly and requires a second boiling of fresh water to clean that film off....Im going to try Napisan next time I clean her up.

A final fill with clean water and packed away.....huh? you store the BM full of water until your next brew?


----------



## tallie

Pratty1 said:


> thanks for the tips, ive been using Caustic Soda for cleaning and its not friendly and requires a second boiling of fresh water to clean that film off....Im going to try Napisan next time I clean her up.


I'd certainly avoid using Caustic based on this: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/72205-brass-and-caustic-whoops/ . Sounds like it came good in the end, but better to avoid it in the first place IMO.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Yep, I won't use it again, though it did bring it up super shiny!


----------



## matt211181

Does anyone know if the BM restarts the mash cycle automatically after a power outage (obviously once power comes back on)? I've read about some users doing an overnight mash by specifying an initial rest at room temperature with the maximum rest length, and then having the BM hold with an extended mashout until the malt pipe is lifted.....but I'm just wondering if it would be possible to attach the BM to a power timer, mash-in (at room temp), press the button to start the mash sequence, then cut the power to the BM and have the timer turn the BM back on after a delay and have it continue the mash cycle?


----------



## zoigl

Hi bobcharlie
you don't say 20litre or 50litre, the 50 litre draws 15 amps.
I can't see why you would want to mash this way, I set my 50 l up the night before, grind the grain and get the mash going around 40 c the next day. Are you experimenting with the mash? What are you trying to achieve.Are you trying to save time?


----------



## matt211181

Hi Zoigl - it's just about saving time. I'm considering switching from my 3V HERMS to a 20L BM, mainly just to free up time. Ideally, I'd love to be able to mash in on the BM before going to bed, and have have the mash finished in the morning about 6am. As I said, I have read about some people doing an overnight mash by using 1 or 2 of the 5 programmable mash steps to just 'delay' the start of the mash (by setting the first mash step to 10deg C and hold for the maximum rest length available), but every so often I do a 5 step mash on my HERMS, and so I wouldn't really like to lose 1 or 2 of the 5 possible mash steps by doing this. I know I could always just start the mash before going to bed and have the BM hold at mash out until I get up, but this could mean 77-78deg being held for 6-7 hours, which I'm not too keen on. So, I was just thinking if the BM resumes the mash cycle automatically (if it has already been started) when the power is switched back on, a simple power timer could be used to effectively delay the start of the mash to something like 3am, and be ready to lift the malt pipe at 6 in the morning. However, if the BM requires the user to press a "continue mash" button or something after the power switches back on, then the delayed start with a power timer couldn't work.... Cheers


----------



## Blind Dog

@BobCharlie

If the power is interrupted the BM restarts with an abort or continue message, which requires a user response. so unfortunately the answer to your question is no. At least that's the case with my 20L BM

Not sure why you don't want the mash sitting at mash out temps overnight?


----------



## matt211181

Thanks Blind Dog, that's the info I was after. Much appreciated. I guess I was concerned about off flavours from recirculating the mash for that long at mash out temp (tannin extraction etc...). But as long as the temp is held at say 77 deg maximum, I guess tannins shouldn't be a problem? Not sure about other effects though.... I guess if others have done this without adverse effects on the finished beer, then it's worth trying! Thanks again for the info


----------



## wobbly

If you check out this topic on the Braumeister forum you will see 9 pages of comments and results about overnight mashing and while you are at it why not become a member of that forum to both gain access and contribute to a whole lot more Braumeister specific information


https://forum.braumeisters.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=51&hilit=overnight+mashing

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## Blind Dog

Also note that overnight mashing is not new. Its just easier and more precise in a BM rather than leaving it sitting in an esky or in the oven, as the BM can hold the temperature accurately.

As far as I've read over the years, whether youre using a BM, esky or oven the main points are that below about 50C there is a risk of bacterial infection and a low rest in the low 60s will create a dry, very fermentable beer, so for most home brewers an overnight mash at 66C+ should be the aim

IIRC my BM will do steps of 180 minutes max


----------



## matt211181

Thanks for the info guys. Seems to be some great info in that thread over on the BM forum too - thanks for the heads up Wobbly. Cheers


----------



## zoigl

bobcharlie,
It should be possible to do what you are trying to achieve. You could use a timer until mash out. Then auto switch off with a timer. The next day just do a manual boil.
I always do a 90 minute boil at 102degC and have never had a failure.
If it was me, I probably would wake up and do the mash/lauter, before switching off, and this step would not need a timer switch.
Just my thoughts, I don't think that I would like to try this.
cheers


----------



## zoigl

Blind Dog
If you do a boil, I am sure any bacteria should be destroyed. There should be some charts somewhere which indicates the degree of destruction of bacteria at certain temperatures.
It runs something like 2 minutes @ 90 c
down to 15 minutes @65c
don't quote me on these numbers look them up
I personally would not worry too much about bacteria so long as you do a vigorous boil at least 1 hour, but preferably 90 minutes @ 102c, just my thoughts.


----------



## Blind Dog

It's the off flavours the bacteria leave behind that's the issue. Once the sour,funky flavours get into the wort, boiling won't get rid of them.


----------



## wobbly

Blind Dog said:


> Also note that overnight mashing is not new. Its just easier and more precise in a BM rather than leaving it sitting in an esky or in the oven, as the BM can hold the temperature accurately.
> 
> As far as I've read over the years, whether youre using a BM, esky or oven the main points are that below about 50C there is a risk of bacterial infection and a low rest in the low 60s will create a dry, very fermentable beer, so for most home brewers an overnight mash at 66C+ should be the aim
> 
> IIRC my BM will do steps of 180 minutes max


My reading of the forum topic on the "other forum" I referenced is that those that do the over night mash allow the mash to complete and reach mash out and hold it at mash out temperature for the extended time

I can't speak from personal experience having never tried an over night mash in my 20 lt BM but a number of members on this forum have (according to their posts on the other forum) and perhaps/maybe they will post their experience on this forum

Wont post their names in case that is also against forum rules

Cheers

wobbly


----------



## Blind Dog

I do t think everyone on the other forum takes it to mash out and holds. A number seem to have a long dough in at low temps (so limited bacterial activity), a long alpha rest and a long mash out. It would be nice to dough in, head off to bed, wake up, lift the pipe and carry on. I can't complete a mash in an evening with all the other stuff going on

Only issue I can see is if I get geysers and wake up to 20l of wort on the kitchen floor


----------



## dicko

Blind Dog said:


> I do t think everyone on the other forum takes it to mash out and holds. A number seem to have a long dough in at low temps (so limited bacterial activity), a long alpha rest and a long mash out. It would be nice to dough in, head off to bed, wake up, lift the pipe and carry on. I can't complete a mash in an evening with all the other stuff going on
> 
> Only issue I can see is if I get geysers and wake up to 20l of wort on the kitchen floor


I hold mine at mash out until morning at 76 deg c. I did have some wort come out once but that was a mid strength beer with a very small grain bill.
All other times it has worked just fine.


----------



## Draughton

If you've reached mashout temperature is there any value in sparging with hot water instead of cold?


----------



## QldKev

Draughton said:


> If you've reached mashout temperature is there any value in sparging with hot water instead of cold?


Most will argue for hot water. On my 1V I tried both hot and cold, and got no difference in pre-boil efficiency. Now I always cold water "hose sparge" it as it is easier. On my 3V I still heat up the sparge water to 77c as I find 70L of cold water adds a lot of time to raising the kettle to the boil. If you didn't raise the temperature to mash out, then I would always hot sparge.


----------



## Florian

for those that are concerned about holding the mash at mash out temps for 4 hours you could also just add a second initial step instead.
so have step one and two both at 10 degrees, that brings you to over 8 hours (max. 255 minutes per step on my anxient BM).
i would preferably do this in winter though when the water is indeed cold, not sure if you develop any off flavours in the middle of a qld summer.


----------



## cubbie

What are folks typical evaporation rates with the 20L BM? I am still trying to get a baseline and had aprox 16% on the last brew. My mash efficiency was also at 95% which seems rather high.


----------



## tiny

I have a bm 50 and I use it to make 150 ltrs of wort ( with a few other bits and pieces added ) and have always sparged on it with good results . I have found that a fine crush has upped the efficiency but can cause you a few headaches with malt fountains . I use 29 kg of grain to get 145ltrs at 1045 . Also I have a shit load of vids up on the u tube with shit about how I use my BM 50 if you are interested please have a look . Offtapbrewing


----------



## hellbent

ooops wrong forum


----------



## danestead

cubbie said:


> What are folks typical evaporation rates with the 20L BM? I am still trying to get a baseline and had aprox 16% on the last brew. My mash efficiency was also at 95% which seems rather high.


11% Evap on a 25L post boil volume size and 80%ish mash efficiency


----------



## crhall41

I was just looking at the Speidel bm recipe for an oak flavored beer which is their only recipe where they call for sparging (due the high OG recipe). The interesting thing I noted was that they say to move the malt pipe up and down several times during the 78C phase. I cannot tell if this is before or after sparging but regardless this is the first time I heard about using this technique. Has anyone else tried this?

http://www.speidels-braumeister.de/oak-flavoured-beer-recipe.html


----------



## Florian

Haven't tried it, but it should help with both efficiency and unclear pre boil wort.


----------



## wobbly

For those with a 20 lt BM and interested in making a "Dicko" stile domed hood then Kitchen Warehouse have a Chef Inox Kitchenware 8lt SS mixing bowl that is an exact fit on the BM.

That is 350mm inside the flange and 370mm outside and it sells for $9:99

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## crhall41

Hi I ran into a slight problem with liquid malt extract getting into my pumps on my last brew day. I used a can of LME to offset some of the grain bill for my high OG beer I was brewing and added it as the BM was ramping up from mash out temp to boiling temp. I suppose in the future the best thing to do will be to pre mix it with some amount of wort in a separate pot before adding to the BM. One afterthought was to wonder if you can manually activate the pumps during a brew session without having to abort it. I do not think you can pause a programmed session to activate the pumps, but I could be wrong. How do others handle the use of LME?

Chris

On tap - Duck-Rabbit milk stout clone
Just brewed - Pliny the Elder double IPA clone
In the queue - Jack Abbey baltic porter clone

Btw hopefully this post as a new thread rather than a reply...


----------



## tallie

crhall41 said:


> Hi I ran into a slight problem with liquid malt extract getting into my pumps on my last brew day. I used a can of LME to offset some of the grain bill for my high OG beer I was brewing and added it as the BM was ramping up from mash out temp to boiling temp. I suppose in the future the best thing to do will be to pre mix it with some amount of wort in a separate pot before adding to the BM. One afterthought was to wonder if you can manually activate the pumps during a brew session without having to abort it. I do not think you can pause a programmed session to activate the pumps, but I could be wrong. How do others handle the use of LME?
> 
> Chris
> 
> Btw hopefully this post as a new thread rather than a reply...


Nope, reply 

Why not just add the extract when it comes to the boil (or after whatever temperature the pump stops at)? Unfortunately I'm not aware of any option to modify the program once it's started without starting again.


----------



## SnakeDoctor

crhall41 said:


> Hi I ran into a slight problem with liquid malt extract getting into my pumps on my last brew day. I used a can of LME to offset some of the grain bill for my high OG beer I was brewing and added it as the BM was ramping up from mash out temp to boiling temp. I suppose in the future the best thing to do will be to pre mix it with some amount of wort in a separate pot before adding to the BM. One afterthought was to wonder if you can manually activate the pumps during a brew session without having to abort it. I do not think you can pause a programmed session to activate the pumps, but I could be wrong. How do others handle the use of LME?
> 
> Chris
> 
> On tap - Duck-Rabbit milk stout clone
> Just brewed - Pliny the Elder double IPA clone
> In the queue - Jack Abbey baltic porter clone
> 
> Btw hopefully this post as a new thread rather than a reply...


Just add it whilst the pump is running, before it gets too hot close to the boil, i'd probably add it just after the mash out.


----------



## Dan Pratt

I had the same problem one time when i added liquid malt to the boil and it wasn't till clean up i found the pump line full of extract.....in future take 5lts of wort out of the boil and add the liquid malt and get that all mixed in then add back to the boil.


----------



## tallie

Pratty1 said:


> I had the same problem one time when i added liquid malt to the boil and it wasn't till clean up i found the pump line full of extract.....in future take 5lts of wort out of the boil and add the liquid malt and get that all mixed in then add back to the boil.


Ah, I didn't realise the OP meant there was extract in the pump at the end of the boil (I thought it was a problem with the pumps getting blocked with goo while raising to the boil).


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

I've only ever used DME, but I slowly add it towards the end of the boil. I don't see the point in boiling extract for an hour, and I had an extract die hard explain to me why late additions are better but I can't recall why right now. He claimed full length boils of extract contribute to it's low opinion among many brewers.


----------



## crhall41

Mr. No-Tip said:


> I've only ever used DME, but I slowly add it towards the end of the boil. I don't see the point in boiling extract for an hour, and I had an extract die hard explain to me why late additions are better but I can't recall why right now. He claimed full length boils of extract contribute to it's low opinion among many brewers.


Mr. No-Tip; Yes I just checked John Palmer's 'How To Brew' book and he does note to add the LME 5 minutes before the end off the boil though no mention of the reason. I suppose at this time you can just end the BM program and manually activate both the pumps and the heater for the final 5 minutes. Crossing my fingers that my IPA still turns out okay!


----------



## doon

Pump wont operate above a certain temp even in manual


----------



## niels

doon said:


> Pump wont operate above a certain temp even in manual


Indeed! Above 88°C the pump(s) don't work.

- Niels


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

I don't think you need the pumps to get you extract in - slow pour and rigorous stir.


----------



## crhall41

Mr. No-Tip said:


> I've only ever used DME, but I slowly add it towards the end of the boil. I don't see the point in boiling extract for an hour, and I had an extract die hard explain to me why late additions are better but I can't recall why right now. He claimed full length boils of extract contribute to it's low opinion among many brewers.


Received this email from BeerSmith two days late but it does provide the explanation of why you add extract late in the boil.

"Both liquid and dried malt extract beers suffer from an effect called a Maillard reaction as well as carmelization when brewing. A Maillard reaction is a chemical reaction that occurs between amino acids and sugars in the wort, and it accentuated by the use of extract in a concentrated boil. Carmelization occurs when liquid extract or excess sugars settle to the bottom of the brew pot during the boil and the sugars carmelize (harden) in the bottom of the pot. Of the two, the Maillard reaction actually accounts for the majority of the color darkening. This typically darkens the beer, and in extreme cases can also affect the taste of the beer. Obviously this is a problem for brewers of light colored beers. The effect is also common in high gravity beers in small brew pots because of the higher proportion of extract to water when boiling."

Live and learn B)


----------



## brewchampion

My First Saison in the 20L
I know its been discussed before, and ive been stopping and stirring every 5-10 minutes...

Vienna Malt (GER) 0.850 20% 
Wheat Pale (GER) 0.850 20.1%
Weyermann Pale Ale 2.300 53.6% 
Approx Total Grain Weight 4.3 

1.2mm crack

no rubber seal on the top filter

http://youtu.be/IalQwo74VbI

http://youtu.be/Z4f8jjilZtw

http://youtu.be/OyPzEG8F0C0

Movies shot 10 minutes apart after removing screen and stirring up and continuing program

Be very happy with a suggestion.


----------



## Edak

What temperature did you mash in at? I find when adding 20% of above in wheat that mashing in as low as 40c does seem to eliminate this fountain problem for me.


----------



## brewchampion

Edak said:


> What temperature did you mash in at? I find when adding 20% of above in wheat that mashing in as low as 40c does seem to eliminate this fountain problem for me.


Hi Edak,

Mashed in at 38 for 20 mins, stir, up to protein rest with 2 stirs on the way up, 25 mins at protein rest, then up to the 63 stirring every 10 minutes.
Im tired! and sticky.


----------



## Dan Pratt

^ ^ tired and sticky.....you paid for a machine to do the work and your stirring it...... :huh: Seriously with only 4kg of grain there is no reason to stir the mash after you have mashed in.

The water to grain ratio if you mashed in with 25lts is 6.25:1 and the room to move within the malt pipe for 4kg of malt is very good. The only beers that I stop and stir are >6kg and this is only before the main rest and during the main rest and this is becuase there in only 4.1lts per kg which in normal mash tuns is double what you need but with the BM and malt pipe's volume, it can do with a stir.

I get higher efficiency from >6kg malt bills by stirrng.. and I get even higher from small 3-4kg malt bills without stirring.


----------



## tipsy

Pratty1 said:


> ^ ^ tired and sticky.....you paid for a machine to do the work and your stirring it...... :huh:


 

It has a pump break every now and again to settle the grain bed...would stirring affect this?


----------



## lukec

Did you mill the grain yourself. You usually only get fountains with a to fine of a crush


----------



## lukec

lukec said:


> How fine was the grain crushed. If it's to fine you will get fountains


----------



## brewchampion

brewchampion said:


> 1.2mm crack


And the stiring should help the channelling:
Back in post #46 "Brew Master" refferenced a pod cast where they inteviewd a Norweigen brewer who uses a 20lt Braumeister and has done more than 100 brews with his system. If you haven't listed to it it might be worth your while.
 He stated that he pauses the mash program about every 10 to 15 minutes a few times and gives the mash a gentle stir and this improves effeciency and helps to avoid any channeling as well as "frees up" the grain bed to help the pump. I have tried this and it certainly visably improved the flow over the side of the malt pipe each time after the first two pause and stirs on a grain bill of 5.3kg The third pause and stir didn't visually indicate any further improvement in flow over the side of the side of the malt pipe. I will keep doing this for a few more brews and see where it leads me. I guess with doing this you just need to be very carefull not to get any grain over the side of the malt pipe.

But that diddnt work today.

So im going for a larger crack next time.


----------



## lael

Too much effort for a 1 point / similar gain in efficiency. Crack slightly larger, set and forget... so much less hassle.


----------



## tiprya

I mill at 1.1mm, never stir, and have used 50% wheat without fountains.

No idea what's causing yours, just wanted to add my experience.

I do make sure it is very well mixed at dough in though - maybe this helps?


----------



## Crusty

It's definitly craked too fine. I had a similar issue ( not as bad as that ) when trying to bump my efficiency up a tad by cracking finer.
Open up the gap on your mill & settle for a slight drop in efficiency. I think stirring is a total waste of time too for minimal gain.
The Braumeister will do the work fro you so let it do it's thing. The pump break allows the grain to settle as well & you will achieve a clear wort to your fermenter or no chill cube. If you continue to disrupt the grain bed, I think you'll find it near impossible to achieve a crystal clear wort ( if you think it's necessary )
I used to do several temp rests & this boosted my efficiency into the mid to high 70"s ( brewhouse ) but now I usually just settle for a 50deg mash in, 52deg protein rest & a single infusion @ 64-66deg followed by a mash out @ 78deg & a batch sparge. I drop a tad in efficiency to 70-72% but it's set & forget. Nothing better than pushing the start button & then getting something else done like mowing the lawn.


----------



## brewchampion

Thanks for the advice Crusty and "BeerGod"
I probably was pushing it a bit doing wheat and a 1.2 crack.
Although I've read other brewers like BeerGod successfully completed this combo. 

So next time ill crack bigger (1.5mm). Set and forget unless I get channeling.
My efficiency was 84% (MHB/Brebuilder calcs , not BS).
Ill drop that to 74% for a bigger crack.
Sounds reasonable?

I also need to improve the top screen seal.
Tons of grain came through it (See pic below from after boil, check the rim!)
Im struggling to source a decent rubber seal thats food safe.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByP8AKj1KwWOZXQ5ZmFDYi00Rmc/edit?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByP8AKj1KwWOWllvTVhlTzh0MGM/edit?usp=sharing


----------



## niels

Crusty said:


> I think stirring is a total waste of time too for minimal gain.


I agree for a normal malt bill, but when I brewed a wit with 50% raw wheat I'm my pumps were grateful that I stirred a few times in the beginning of the mash.

- Niels


----------



## Rurik

tiprya said:


> I mill at 1.1mm, never stir, and have used 50% wheat without fountains.
> 
> No idea what's causing yours, just wanted to add my experience.
> 
> I do make sure it is very well mixed at dough in though - maybe this helps?


This is my experience but I have brewed with 60% wheat.


----------



## wobbly

Not sure if it has been posted before but if you experience a problem with the control box display flashing "on and off" or no display at all when you power up it may well be a failed capacitor on the PC board as described in the attachment

The control unit on my 20lt BM showed these characteristics and today it was dead. Opened the control box and located the capacitor in question and is shows a domed top as detailed so I'm in the process of having it changed and upgraded to a 25 volt ratting

Cheers

Wobbly 

View attachment kondensator-wechsel-2013.pdf


----------



## crhall41

Does anyone with a 50L BM have trouble keeping a roiling (or is it rolling :blink boil without the lid being at least part way on? My preference is to keep it off to reduce DMS but I have not been able to do so. I set the temp to 102C but it typically hovers in the 99-100C range and this does not get me the vigorous boil needed. Needless to say this is requiring me to stay by the BM to pop the lid off consistently to drain off the condensate. My one thought is that I am using a 10ft extension cord to get the BM out of the garage. Does anyone else use an extension cord?

thanks, Chris


----------



## Dan Pratt

I have mine plugged into the wall directly, but when I used an extension cord which was 5meters the boil was the same, low......

One of the cons on the BM in my opinion is the low boil, its far from vigourus. I have recently made (dicko's idea) the SS colander into a hood and the boil is now great, it really increases the vigor.

Here is the link on another site, worth getting one sorted.

https://forum.braumeisters.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=197


----------



## Crusty

crhall41 said:


> Does anyone with a 50L BM have trouble keeping a roiling (or is it rolling :blink boil without the lid being at least part way on? My preference is to keep it off to reduce DMS but I have not been able to do so. I set the temp to 102C but it typically hovers in the 99-100C range and this does not get me the vigorous boil needed. Needless to say this is requiring me to stay by the BM to pop the lid off consistently to drain off the condensate. My one thought is that I am using a 10ft extension cord to get the BM out of the garage. Does anyone else use an extension cord?
> 
> thanks, Chris


I use a 15A extension cord which is about 10m long from memory. I haven't plugged the BM directly into the wall but can't see how that would make any difference really. Getting used to a simmering boil is hard & I used to boil with a 32jet Mongolian & thought the BM had something wrong with it until I got used to it. Why are you needing such a vigorous boil. Just boil for 90mins if you are worried about DMS or adjust your software to compensate for more volume after the boil. I water tested mine with no lid & get 6l/hr boil off which is more than enough. This things designed by some pretty smart people so don't worry that your beers will be worse off by not boiling it like a bitch.


----------



## doon

Go buy a ss bowl for 12 bucks cut a 15cm hole in it and bam way better boil for a lot less then bm official dome


----------



## zoigl

I reckon that you had better look at where your responses are coming from. In Australia we have 240 volts, I am not sure what you are getting in the US but my guess is around 110 volts.
I lived in Japan for a number of years and they have 100 AND 110 volts depending where you live. The difference when using a microwave oven is amazing.
Recently I purchased a coffee roaster and the label is quite definite, do not use an extension.
I manage a rolling boil but our climate could possibly be warmer here in South Australia. Also I use a camping mat cut to fit around the BM. A tip here is to make a heavy brown paper pattern, then it is easy to replace.
I use a 10 meter extension with my BM, the first one labelled as 15 amp burnt out over time, I purchased this at our local B*nning* hardware store, it lasted a couple of years so was hard to return. The new extension is marked also at 15 amps but the cable is far heavier. 
I use a copper top as well, but a SS bowl with a hole cut into the bottom should work too.


----------



## Batz

Although the BM boil is a little less active than what I had with my old kettle I still found it adequate. All that said, I got caught up in the boil hype and bought a jacket and hood. You can make a jacket from a camping mat, a hood from a stainless bowl and your off and running. I did have a couple of good months of work so I bought the real thing, waste of money perhaps, but it does look sexy. The boil now needs to be turned down from the 102C, otherwise it will boil out the top.

Batz


----------



## Black n Tan

Batz said:


> Although the BM boil is a little less active than what I had with my old kettle I still found it adequate. All that said, I got caught up in the boil hype and bought a jacket and hood. You can make a jacket from a camping mat, a hood from a stainless bowl and your off and running. I did have a couple of good months of work so I bought the real thing, waste of money perhaps, but it does look sexy. The boil now needs to be turned down from the 102C, otherwise it will boil out the top.
> 
> Batz


I have the same set-up although I have the much sexier copper hood. I not sure the more vigorous boil equals better beer, but it probably saves some energy (not enough to cover the cost of original BM add-ons I suspect). I like the ghetto option. Some early hops usually quells the boil-over so I often add some FWH. If there is no early hops I add a few drops of FermCapS (simethicone, the same ingredient in infacol).


----------



## Batz

Thanks B&T, I'll try some FWH, tomorrows brew day, where do you get FermCapS?

Batz


----------



## Black n Tan

I got it from Grain and Grape. It is kept in the fridge, but I am sure could be posted fine. The best thing about it is when making yeast starters. One drop is enough in a starter and the risk of boil over is almost eliminated. Once I reach a simmer I know I can walk away and come back in 15 minutes. Not one boil over since using it.


----------



## Batz

Black n Tan said:


> I got it from Grain and Grape. It is kept in the fridge, but I am sure could be posted fine. The best thing about it is when making yeast starters. One drop is enough in a starter and the risk of boil over is almost eliminated. Once I reach a simmer I know I can walk away and come back in 15 minutes. Not one boil over since using it.


Cheers, I wonder what's in it? I'm a bit suss about adding stuff to my beer. I can't see it on their website.

Batz


----------



## Murdoch

I have the 50L Brau & the boil is much less than I would like
So I supplement it with an immersion heater & it now has a vigorous boil
Completely separate from hop utilization there is a big difference in break formation !


----------



## alcoadam

I leave the lid 3/4 on and have never had any issues, boil/beer is fine. Just keep an eye on things before the boil starts....can get messy <_<


----------



## Brew Matt

Does anyone have a good Pale Ale recipe for the BM50 that they are willing to share or point me towards.


----------



## Black n Tan

Batz said:


> Cheers, I wonder what's in it? I'm a bit suss about adding stuff to my beer. I can't see it on their website.
> 
> Batz


The active ingredient is simethicone which is a surfactant. They claim it not only doesn't harm head retention, but in fact can aid it by retaining head forming proteins. it is the same stuff used in things like Infacol used to treat colic (gas) in babies. If your a purist it may not be for you, but it is pretty harmless and extremely low levels. Check it out on the morebeer site.

EDIT: G&G certainly sell it, they get it from Morebeer in the US.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

crhall41 said:


> Does anyone with a 50L BM have trouble keeping a roiling (or is it rolling :blink boil without the lid being at least part way on? My preference is to keep it off to reduce DMS but I have not been able to do so. I set the temp to 102C but it typically hovers in the 99-100C range and this does not get me the vigorous boil needed. Needless to say this is requiring me to stay by the BM to pop the lid off consistently to drain off the condensate. My one thought is that I am using a 10ft extension cord to get the BM out of the garage. Does anyone else use an extension cord?
> 
> thanks, Chris


I am pretty sure that in this thread, certainly on this forum, I posted about an exchange with Ralf from Spiedel about my boil concerns, and concerns about uneven element firing. In the end I bought their arguments around altitudes and the sufficiency of the boil. I agree it looks lame, but I've never had a lick of DMS in my BM beers. I have the jacket, but that's more around getting to hear more quickly than about a bigger boil.


----------



## Blind Dog

Mr. No-Tip said:


> I am pretty sure that in this thread, certainly on this forum, I posted about an exchange with Ralf from Spiedel about my boil concerns, and concerns about uneven element firing. In the end I bought their arguments around altitudes and the sufficiency of the boil. I agree it looks lame, but I've never had a lick of DMS in my BM beers. I have the jacket, but that's more around getting to hear more quickly than about a bigger boil.


Hear more quickly? That's a damn neat invention


----------



## Wolfman

I have just joined the club. Picked up a second hand 50L jobbie with a short malt pipe from a member on here. 

Looks like I've got 38 odd pages to read on tips and tricks!


----------



## crhall41

alcoadam said:


> I leave the lid 3/4 on and have never had any issues, boil/beer is fine. Just keep an eye on things before the boil starts....can get messy <_<


I do have the insulated jacket and copper lid but I am worried that the condensate (with all its evil DMS) collects on the lid and just drips back down into the wort. I certainly get good rolling boils with the copper lid but I have been getting some vegetative off flavors with it which I am thinking is coming from the condensate. I suppose it could be something else (like poor sanitation) but this seems to be the more likely cause. I may try to devise some way to slightly lift the lid off the top of the BM such that the condensate drips to the outside rather than inside.

thanks for all the replies and insights....Chris


----------



## tiprya

How long are you boiling for, and have you actually confirmed (with an experienced taster) that it is DMS you are getting?

I'd get it checked before bothering trying to DIY something.


----------



## Black n Tan

crhall41 said:


> I do have the insulated jacket and copper lid but I am worried that the condensate (with all its evil DMS) collects on the lid and just drips back down into the wort. I certainly get good rolling boils with the copper lid but I have been getting some vegetative off flavors with it which I am thinking is coming from the condensate. I suppose it could be something else (like poor sanitation) but this seems to be the more likely cause. I may try to devise some way to slightly lift the lid off the top of the BM such that the condensate drips to the outside rather than inside.
> 
> thanks for all the replies and insights....Chris


Although you may get some condensation dripping back, most makes it way out as will be evidenced by your boil off rate. If I remember correctly my boil off volume with the copper dome is a little more than without, so I would think you could argue DMS reduction may be better with the dome.


----------



## alcoadam

crhall41 said:


> I do have the insulated jacket and copper lid but I am worried that the condensate (with all its evil DMS) collects on the lid and just drips back down into the wort. I certainly get good rolling boils with the copper lid but I have been getting some vegetative off flavors with it which I am thinking is coming from the condensate. I suppose it could be something else (like poor sanitation) but this seems to be the more likely cause. I may try to devise some way to slightly lift the lid off the top of the BM such that the condensate drips to the outside rather than inside.
> 
> thanks for all the replies and insights....Chris


With my lid being 3/4 on, nothing is dripping outside of the unit....it'd just be messy.

I was down in Melbourne a little while ago and noticed a small craft brewery that also leaves a lid 3/4 over the pot. I said to the brewer "ever had any trouble?" He grinned and said nope....


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

alcoadam said:


> I was down in Melbourne a little while ago and noticed a small craft brewery that also leaves a lid 3/4 over the pot. I said to the brewer "ever had any trouble?" He grinned and said nope....


"Pro brewer" doesn't always mean "know brewer" I've had the brewer of a small craft brewery tell me his Steam Beer was supposed to be moderately infected because "that's what happens when you ferment a lager yeast at ale temperatures".

There's a lot of things to learn from some/many/most pro Brewers, but bad habits aren't among them.


----------



## alcoadam

Mr. No-Tip said:


> "Pro brewer" doesn't always mean "know brewer" I've had the brewer of a small craft brewery tell me his Steam Beer was supposed to be moderately infected because "that's what happens when you ferment a lager yeast at ale temperatures".
> 
> There's a lot of things to learn from some/many/most pro Brewers, but bad habits aren't among them.


Thanks for the tip.


----------



## Siborg

Here's a tip: don't mash in to your BM without adding the screen filters....


----------



## Wolfman

Siborg said:


> Here's a tip: don't mash in to your BM without adding the screen filters....


Great tip!


----------



## Siborg

Wolfman said:


> Great tip!


I ended up removing the entire mash with a 500mL pyrex jug, into a stainless ice tub, rinsed the f**k out of the BM and, then (carefully) pouring it back in with the filters in. Subtracted 10-15 minutes for lost time to the mash step, and only lost a couple of degrees surprisingly. Turned out a pretty decent batch, but not something I'd recommend.


----------



## Black n Tan

Siborg said:


> I ended up removing the entire mash with a 500mL pyrex jug, into a stainless ice tub, rinsed the f**k out of the BM and, then (carefully) pouring it back in with the filters in. Subtracted 10-15 minutes for lost time to the mash step, and only lost a couple of degrees surprisingly. Turned out a pretty decent batch, but not something I'd recommend.


I did this once also. Thought it look different when I was adding the grain and then the penny dropped. Never again I hope.


----------



## Siborg

Black n Tan said:


> I did this once also. Thought it look different when I was adding the grain and then the penny dropped. Never again I hope.


Yeah. This is the kind of mistake you only make once


----------



## Blind Dog

Siborg said:


> Yeah. This is the kind of mistake you only make once in a while


FIFY


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Has anyone touched the back of their control unit just after boil? Just now I'd somehow gotten my cable running through a stepladder and had to unplug and resit once the boil had finished. The power cable was very hot and the heatsink on the unit was untouchable. I don't think I've ever been back there till about 20 minutes after boil before, so not sure if this is normal or not?


----------



## Crusty

Siborg said:


> Yeah. This is the kind of mistake you only make once


I have to admit, I did it today.
I added the malt pipe, bottom screens then the grain. I added the top fine screen & then the phone rang. Spoke briefly to the missus who was at work & put on the cross bar at the top, done it up tight & hit go. Just as the malt pipe was overflowing, I noticed that I forgot the top stainless solid screen, SHIT! I hit abort & due to me seeing it so quickly, I had no issues with grain in the wort. It's easy to do & I guarantee I won't do it again. Ended up being a great brewday, just a simple Cream Ale. 50lt into the fermenter @1.051. Much better than my predicted 75% so I'll make a couple of changes next time.


----------



## Cervantes

Crusty said:



> I have to admit, I did it today.
> I added the malt pipe, bottom screens then the grain. I added the top fine screen & then the phone rang. Spoke briefly to the missus who was at work & put on the cross bar at the top, done it up tight & hit go. Just as the malt pipe was overflowing, I noticed that I forgot the top stainless solid screen, SHIT! I hit abort & due to me seeing it so quickly, I had no issues with grain in the wort. It's easy to do & I guarantee I won't do it again. Ended up being a great brewday, just a simple Cream Ale. 50lt into the fermenter @1.051. Much better than my predicted 75% so I'll make a couple of changes next time.


My top fine mesh screen is clipped to my heavy stainless screen. I did this so that it's easy to install and remove if I want to stir the mash, but also means that you can't install one without the the other............

And so that I don't seem like a smart arse I have forgotten to install both bottom filter plates in the past....................


----------



## Siborg

Cervantes said:


> My top fine mesh screen is clipped to my heavy stainless screen. I did this so that it's easy to install and remove if I want to stir the mash, but also means that you can't install one without the the other............
> 
> And so that I don't seem like a smart arse I have forgotten to install both bottom filter plates in the past....................


Yeah, I completely forgot about the bottom screens, then when I went to put the top ones on noticed I had an extra screen set.


----------



## RobW

Siborg said:


> Yeah, I completely forgot about the bottom screens, then when I went to put the top ones on noticed I had an extra screen set.


I did the opposite - couldn't find the top screen and then discovered 2 in the bottom.
Fortunately I could lift the whole lot out, empty the wet grain into a bucket, wash the pipe and screen and start again with minimal inconvenience.


----------



## Blind Dog

I think my worst one was when I tipped the grain in and then turned round to see the malt pipe sitting proudly on the kitchen bench.

I then compounded the error by lifting the BM by the handles to tip the liquor and grain into a Bunnings pale, only to find out there is a reason the manual warns you not to do it. Fortunately I mash in at 45C so I just ended up covered in about 10L of slightly sticky warm liquid and a floor to clean.


----------



## Coalminer

Make sure to acknowledge by pressing OK when asked to fill malt pipe
Its much easier and less messy if the pump is not running when adding grain


----------



## Batz

Coalminer said:


> Make sure to acknowledge by pressing OK when asked to fill malt pipe
> Its much easier and less messy if the pump is not running when adding grain



OK there's one I can admit too.


----------



## MattSR

Can someone tell me what the dreaded "DMS" actually is?

Cheers,
Matt


----------



## brewchampion

I've got a tip : if you loose a base plate and filter. Try looking in the trash with the waste malt
That will save you from looking all over the brewery and house.!


----------



## Cervantes

MattSR said:


> Can someone tell me what the dreaded "DMS" actually is?
> 
> Cheers,
> Matt


Dimethylsulfide

Edit:

More reading here


----------



## durgarth

Has anyone done a sour mash with the Braumeister. I want to do a Berliner Weisse by mashing, reducing the temp to 40 degrees or so throwing in some unmashed grain and allowing the Lacto to do its thing for a couple of days (until sour enough), then boil and ferment.

Ideas gratefully received.


----------



## WitWonder

Coalminer said:


> Make sure to acknowledge by pressing OK when asked to fill malt pipe
> Its much easier and less messy if the pump is not running when adding grain


Did that at the end of the mash last time - forgot to acknowledge end of mash and started trying to remove the malt pipe full of grain. Wondering why it was so difficult to remove the butterfly nut and then staring in horror as the grain started rising above the top of the malt pipe...


----------



## dicko

OK so I must have too much time on my hands




but yesterday I decided to do a little modification that has been on my mind for a while.

I found that when I wanted to lift the top screen from the malt pipe to stir the mash I found that 9 times out of ten the wire screen would either get caught on the thread of the centre rod and drop back on top of the mash or, if using the rubber to secure it then it would dislodge the rubber and I would have to re configure the whole screen and rubber again. This usually involved having to clean all the grain from the screens for re assembly.

What I did was I went to the local marine chandlery shop and bought 4 x 5 mm stainless screws and washers and wing nuts to suit.

I measured the spacings equally around the solid plate and drilled out 4 holes to 5 mm (they are currently 3 mm).
I then got a tapered centre punch and pushed it through the light mesh screen in line with the holes that I had drilled and stopped pushing when the hole in the mesh was 5 mm.
I bolted the mesh to the solid screen and refitted my rubber seal and there you have it. A now secure screen that is relatively easy to dis assemble for cleaning but wont fall to pieces if it is lifted from the mash.

I could have bought 3 mm screws but I considered them too small to handle with my big fingers





Anyway a picture tells a thousand words.


----------



## lukec

Do you find stirring makes much difference?



dicko said:


> OK so I must have too much time on my hands
> 
> 
> 
> but yesterday I decided to do a little modification that has been on my mind for a while.
> I found that when I wanted to lift the top screen from the malt pipe to stir the mash I found that 9 times out of ten the wire screen would either get caught on the thread of the centre rod and drop back on top of the mash or, if using the rubber to secure it then it would dislodge the rubber and I would have to re configure the whole screen and rubber again. This usually involved having to clean all the grain from the screens for re assembly.
> What I did was I went to the local marine chandlery shop and bought 4 x 5 mm stainless screws and washers and wing nuts to suit.
> I measured the spacings equally around the solid plate and drilled out 4 holes to 5 mm (they are currently 3 mm).
> I then got a tapered centre punch and pushed it through the light mesh screen in line with the holes that I had drilled and stopped pushing when the hole in the mesh was 5 mm.
> I bolted the mesh to the solid screen and refitted my rubber seal and there you have it. A now secure screen that is relatively easy to dis assemble for cleaning but wont fall to pieces if it is lifted from the mash.
> I could have bought 3 mm screws but I considered them too small to handle with my big fingers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway a picture tells a thousand words.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_0877.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_0878.jpg


----------



## Dan2

Perhaps a piece of stainless wire/strap between 2 of the screws (top side) to help with lifting the plate out.
I just took mine out to add a little roast and crystal during mash out and struggled to get a grip on it.
Wore a layer of skin off my fingers yesterday doing some net repairs so they're very sensitive to heat  .... (pause to wait for sympathy ... :lol: )


----------



## dicko

I find that if I stir the grain on a large grain bill, up around 6 kg, then I get an extra point or two of OG.

With a grain bill around 5 kg it really doesn't seem to matter.
It is also handy if you want to add your roasted grains at the end of the mash.

Dan2 that is a good idea re the wire for a handle....I will have a think about that and see what I come up with.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

I'm a little peeved at my BM and myself today.

Doing a double mash Barleywine with the small malt pipe. I tried this once before a couple years ago on a DIPA and didn't like the results, but I am giving it another go after advice from Grain and Grape to mash on the lower end of the malt pipe capacity. Today's batch is 2x5kg mashes which might still be a bit high...

I think my first mistake was doing a normal mash program with a view to interrupt it at mash-out rather than just going all out manual. I was out of the house when the mash finished and got home about 10-15 mins later with the wort pumping through and the unit beeping.

I sparged 8l (should have done 5-6 I think) with 66 degree water (mash matched) to avoid denaturing the enzymes. Doughed in the second batch, and then went to kick off the manual mash at 67...the BM unit reads 76 degrees.

ARGH WTF?!

I pulled the mash out and let the unit cool down, dropping it back in at 68, and aiming to maintain at 67. The second mash was in the mid 70s wort for about 5 minutes I think. I will know in about an hour if I get anything out of the second lot of grain!

I am at a loss to explain how this has happened. I looked back at the program:

Mash in - 38
0 min - 52
0 min - 52
90 min - 66
0 min - 68
0 min - 76
90 min - boil 101

As I didn't look at the controller temp until I doughed in the second batch, I am not sure when it climbed to 76. I only pressed the 'quit mash' not 'start boiling' as I was sparging, so I think it climbed to 76 in the ten or so minutes after the mash program finished before I came home. Anyone seen behaviour like this before?




Update: An hour into the second mash and things are going OK. Almost at my target pre-boil gravity...still interested to see what happened though!


----------



## brewchampion

Mr. No-Tip said:


> I'm a little peeved at my BM and myself today.
> 
> Doing a double mash Barleywine with the small malt pipe. I tried this once before a couple years ago on a DIPA and didn't like the results, but I am giving it another go after advice from Grain and Grape to mash on the lower end of the malt pipe capacity. Today's batch is 2x5kg mashes which might still be a bit high...
> 
> I think my first mistake was doing a normal mash program with a view to interrupt it at mash-out rather than just going all out manual. I was out of the house when the mash finished and got home about 10-15 mins later with the wort pumping through and the unit beeping.
> 
> I sparged 8l (should have done 5-6 I think) with 66 degree water (mash matched) to avoid denaturing the enzymes. Doughed in the second batch, and then went to kick off the manual mash at 67...the BM unit reads 76 degrees.
> 
> ARGH WTF?!
> 
> I pulled the mash out and let the unit cool down, dropping it back in at 68, and aiming to maintain at 67. The second mash was in the mid 70s wort for about 5 minutes I think. I will know in about an hour if I get anything out of the second lot of grain!
> 
> I am at a loss to explain how this has happened. I looked back at the program:
> 
> Mash in - 38
> 0 min - 52
> 0 min - 52
> 90 min - 66
> 0 min - 68
> 0 min - 76
> 90 min - boil 101
> 
> As I didn't look at the controller temp until I doughed in the second batch, I am not sure when it climbed to 76. I only pressed the 'quit mash' not 'start boiling' as I was sparging, so I think it climbed to 76 in the ten or so minutes after the mash program finished before I came home. Anyone seen behaviour like this before?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Update: An hour into the second mash and things are going OK. Almost at my target pre-boil gravity...still interested to see what happened though!


Your sparge water thermometer is broke?


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

brewchampion said:


> Your sparge water thermometer is broke?


Nah, the reading was on the BM itself. Even if I poured 76l water during the sparge (I didn't) it wouldnt have raised the mass to that temp.


----------



## Blind Dog

Your mash schedule has a 0 minute rest at 76C, so the BM will still ramp the temps up to 76C (at least mind always does). For a double mash you either need to be there to interrupt the relevant mash step or program one mash schedule to end at the main sac rest, then reprogram a second mash schedule starting at that temp to mashout


----------



## doon

Yeah you have 0 mins at a higher temp so it will go up to that.

The instructions for double mash on grain and grape facebook say first mash leave at main sacc temp second mash do a mashout


----------



## Dan Pratt

mashed in last night and the wort seemed to take ages to come up through the malt pipe.....hmmmm..... then the water on teh outside of the malt pipe was starting to become cloudy......hmmm "what is going on?"

Forgot to put the orange seal on the base of the malt pipe..... :huh:

Stopped pump, lifted malt pipe, removed the malt pipe after draining the malt pipe and rested the MP on a bucket and had to proceed to add the seal, replaced the MP to the cloudy water, transferred 2 litres via to the top of the pipe, reset filter and starter her up....PHEW!!


----------



## Blind Dog

Haven't done that one...yet!

Hopefully it's all good now?


----------



## Dan Pratt

Blind Dog said:


> Haven't done that one...yet!
> 
> Hopefully it's all good now?


Brew went great. Done my 2nd overnight mash with stellar results, my brew house Eff has increased 10%. I was running at low 60% for a grist of 5.6kg and now can hit 70%+ using the overnight mash profile.

mash in at 25c ( tap water temp )
180m @ 25c
180m @ 25c
20m @ 63c
30m @ 73c
90m @ 78c

Start at 9pm and all mashed in by 930. Wake up at 630, get up at 645 and beep beep mash is just finishing. If I could set it for longer than 180m per phase it would be mashed in earlier than 930. This makes my brew day including cleanup less than 4hrs and my efficiency has gone up  

I have to admit the mill I'm getting grain through ( 3roller from KK set at 0.6mm - apparently 3 rollers only have 2 settings 0.3 and 0.6 as the 2 top rollers stay constant) has changed aswell so I cant give all the increase the Overnight Mash, I think that the 2 combined have seen improvements, but mainly the mash.


----------



## dicko

That is a great result Pratty.

If you can get your mill setting to 1.2mm you will easily hit the 80's % although I have a 3 roller crankenstein that is set at 1.2mm and I consistently get 77% over each brew.
Other brewers I know with adjustable two roller mills are getting the low 80's % on a normal mash.
It may be something about the three roller workings??


----------



## Dan Pratt

Yeah this three roller can only adjust the lower roller. The crush is great and has heap of full cracked husks and low flour content. When I asked about the settings he said it had only 2, that the 0.3mm is for wheat and rye for a solid grind and 0.6mm for the normal grist. Not sure how that works out but I'd imagine the top rollers are already set to at least 1.0mm

After seeing this in action my preferred purchase will be a three roller. 

I lose a lot of brewhouse eff from my losses to trub, mainly because I do big hoppy beers all the time. I know I can keep the trub, chill in the fridge and get another 3lt of wort decanted off the hops and break materials but am happy with 20lts for the kegs I'm running. 

So are you getting 80% brewhouse efficiency?


----------



## dicko

This efficiency thing is extremely confusing at times with Beersmith.
I am getting 77% mash efficiency....I dont bother with brewhouse efficiency.
I have got BS set at no loss to trub as I really dont care what is left in the kettle (within reason) as long as I end up with 21 litres to the fermenter and after clearing I get a corny keg full of beer with a tiny bit left in the secondary cube and the filter housing if I use it.

On the 3 roller Crankenstein, I have my gap set to 1.2 and that seems to be about the sweet spot.
I do adjust it if I use oatmalt and I run wheat and golden naked oats through twice at 1.2 as it is a pita to adjust all the time.
My mill only adjusts the bottom roller as well from memory as I am not at home at the moment to check it.
The fixed gap must be wider than 1.5 as I have had my second gap to 1.4 and it still crushed but I was down on efficiency with the BM.
On my old 3v I ran it at .9mm.
If my three roller ever wears out I will by a Mashmaster adjustable two roller mill unless anything better comes onto the market, but I think my Crank will outlast me.


----------



## Dan Pratt

dicko said:


> This efficiency thing is extremely confusing at times with Beersmith.
> I am getting 77% mash efficiency....I dont bother with brewhouse efficiency.
> I have got BS set at no loss to trub as I really dont care what is left in the kettle (within reason) as long as I end up with 21 litres to the fermenter and after clearing I get a corny keg full of beer with a tiny bit left in the secondary cube and the filter housing if I use it.


Ok, I just checked my last 5 beers on the BM and my average Mash efficiency is @ 90%+, that is based on a 70% brew house Eff. The increase in 10% BHE has seen my gravity increase which means I can make bigger beers with less malt. 

Interesting that you don't set the BS trub losses, for me that is how I know how much to sparge for preboil volumes.

On the design page of BS, what do you set the box below Batch Size that is called Tot Efficiency to ?


----------



## dicko

Hi Pratty,

I am working away all this week and only have phone access but when I get home I will post my figures from beersmith for you.

Cheers


----------



## Wolfman

Has anyone had issues with dough balls in the mash?

I have just stirred the mash at the halfway point and noticed there was a few dough balls in there.

Mash:
mash in 36
10min @52
60min @65 Paused the mash @ 30 mins and gave a stir. Found dough balls?
10min @72
[email protected] 78


----------



## tallie

Wolfman said:


> Has anyone had issues with dough balls in the mash?


Only once when I tried experimenting with "underletting", ie, filling the malt pipe, then filling BM with water, thinking that it'd slowly come up through the bottom and evenly wet the grain bed as it use to on my 3V setup. I was thinking it'd save time with mixing the grain, but found a massive dry spot at the end of the mash (LDME in the boil to the rescue!). Since then, I always mixed in and found dough balls would naturally rise to the surface more often than not at the time of mashing in.

If you have a lot of grain and a subsequently thick mash, it would probably pay to check part way through the sacc. rest as you did to make sure you didn't miss any. Either that or maybe look at using a different mash paddle.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

I get some dough balls on thicker mashes. I usually mash in at 37 regardless of the beer, filling the grain really slowly so 70% of it soaks up in a thin mash, the final 30% gets a very good stir to try and soak through, but I always do a stir or two in the first half of the mash and oftenfind some small dough balls


----------



## dicko

Pratty1 said:


> Ok, I just checked my last 5 beers on the BM and my average Mash efficiency is @ 90%+, that is based on a 70% brew house Eff. The increase in 10% BHE has seen my gravity increase which means I can make bigger beers with less malt.
> 
> Interesting that you don't set the BS trub losses, for me that is how I know how much to sparge for preboil volumes.
> 
> On the design page of BS, what do you set the box below Batch Size that is called Tot Efficiency to ?





dicko said:


> Hi Pratty,
> 
> I am working away all this week and only have phone access but when I get home I will post my figures from beersmith for you.
> 
> Cheers








Ok, home at last.

Here are my BS2 settings.
I have used these for 41 brews and every result is extremely close as far as figures go.

As you may realise, these figures are for my methods and brewery and may differ for othewr brewers however if anyone sets their BS to these figures it will get you pretty close, and then fine tune the results from there.


----------



## dicko

And here is the Design Screen for a recent recipe.




Pratty, those figures come up automatically from how I have the Equipment Profile set.

Because I have not included any losses after the boil then that makes my Mash Efficiency and my Brewhouse Efficiency the same.

The moment I include losses the Mash Efficiency stays the same but the Brewhouse efficiency drops.

Some people feel that it is important to know Brewhouse Efficiency, personally I dont because it in no way will help with repeatability of a recipe.....the only thing it tells you is how much you lose AFTER the boil.

To work out how much to sparge, take the total brewing water volume from the design screen and subtract 25 litres for the 20litre BM (top mark on the centre rod) and the result is how much water you will sparge.

From the example above Total Water = 33.70 litres you will use 25 litres for the mash by filling the BM to the top mark and then sparge 8.70 litres in this case.
With grain absorption and all other preboil losses taken into account you will note I end up with 30.4 litres pre boil for every brew I do using Beersmith with my settings.
This pre boil figure does not change from recipe to recipe but the Total Water Needed does change relative to the amount of grain required.
The boil off also never changes so you will always end up with a batch size of 25 litres if using my settings.

I hope this helps

Cheers


----------



## redwing_al

Hey everyone, for the fun of it, I created this collaborative map. Let's created a global view of Braumeister owners. I have added mine:https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid= ... u7E_M_58-A

If you want to add yours, follow the link and use the "add marker" to post the location. I have placed mine in the middle of the city in which I live, not necessarily my home address.

Link: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid= ... u7E_M_58-A


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Have you ever stopped to give your impellers a good clean? I haven't. The pumps get a good run of PBW through them and the impellers usually get a rinse after I tip the unit on its side, but today I took a good look at them...filthy.

There are lots of crevices for shit to hide. Obviously in between the channels, but there are also small tunnels running through the impeller as well. The following embarrassing photo is after 10 mins in PBW and a bit of toothpick through the holes. I am leaving again overnight in fresh and ultra concentrated PBW. Will get the toothbrush out tomorrow.




Pretty disgraceful I let it get this bad, but I'd take a bet there's at least a few BM owners who haven't paid much attention to this part of cleaning, so I thought I'd share...


----------



## Dan Pratt

My impeller used to be like that until I changed my processs for post brewing so I understand how you feel. 

I used to just rinse/clean with water but now Im running 80c water with a strong PBW solution through the BM outlet tap, into Kiaxen pump, CFC and return to BM while the BM pump is also running. I let that run at that temp for 20-30mins then flush with cold water and put starsan in for 5mins. The impeller and pump housing is the cleanist its ever been. 

I had tried the soak overnight but found that the impeller has like you know, very hard to get to places, flushing with 80c PBW solution for a while works great.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Hmm. I use PBW *almost* every brew and always run it through the pumps. Maybe not hot enough....


----------



## Dan Pratt

Mr. No-Tip said:


> Hmm. I use PBW *almost* every brew and always run it through the pumps. Maybe not hot enough....


Increase the temperature for best effect! As you know the pump/s cut out @ 88c which is why I run mine @ 80c

I just use 20L of Hot tap water which is already at 58c and then pour that into the BM with the PBW already in the base of the BM and then turn on the system heat and set manually and vent the pump/s and leave it for the time required.


----------



## RobW

I like to wash and rinse first to get rid of the particulate matter, then run the pump with fresh PBW in hot water.
After that let it soak for a day or so and then rinse and dry.


----------



## Dan Pratt

RobW said:


> I like to wash and rinse first to get rid of the particulate matter, then run the pump with fresh PBW in hot water.
> After that let it soak for a day or so and then rinse and dry.


 sorry I should have mentioned that the process I use now is after a good cleaning with the bristal brush and rinsed out, then the PBW & Hot water is used.


----------



## Crusty

I'd like to mention a couple of points that may or may not happen to you but it's happened to me.
I assumed there may be something wrong with my BM but now know that this is normal & if it happens to you, don't panic like I did & abort the schedule, just be a bit more patient.

1. I added my immersion chiller 15mins before the end of the boil & after about a minute or so, the boil countdown time froze & stopped flashing. I thought, shit, it's shit itself, so I just timed it manually until the end of the boil. The actual problem was that the BM sensed the temp dropping below 97degC & it would of resumed & continued the countdown once it hit 98-99degC. This is not a fault, the BM is supposed to do that & will not countdown until a stable boil temp has been reached, even after the timer has commenced. Let it go, it will continue as normal.

2. I reached my boil temp of 99-100deg but the countdown timer would not flash & begin it's countdown. I let it go for a minute or more & once again thought that my BM has a problem. Again, I aborted the programme & manually boiled for the 90mins. This again is completely normal & the countdown timer will only commence once a stable temp has been reached. This can actually take up to 4mins so again, don't hit the panic button like I did & think there's something wrong. It will commence, just be patient.

To test the above two issues I've had, I deliberately made the BM drop temp whilst boiling, the timer froze & I waited to see what would happen. Once a stable boil temp was reached, the timer continued where it left off.
Next, I let the BM heat up to boil temp & @99deg, the timer began flashing & away it went. Completely normal behavior.
Depending on your brewing environment, the stabilizing boil temp may be longer or shorter than my example but again, relax & leave it alone.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Pratty1 said:


> Increase the temperature for best effect! As you know the pump/s cut out @ 88c which is why I run mine @ 80c
> 
> I just use 20L of Hot tap water which is already at 58c and then pour that into the BM with the PBW already in the base of the BM and then turn on the system heat and set manually and vent the pump/s and leave it for the time required.


I've always used hot water, but this week I let it get to 75 and did an hours circ rather than the usual ten min. Maybe it's because I cleaned them really well last week, maybe it was the heat, but they are looking great after a brew.


----------



## Black n Tan

The other day I set mine to 102C to clean and filled with hot taps water (around 50c) and homemade PBW and let it boil for about 10 minutes (well until my wife went into the laundry and it looked like a swedish sauna). The stainless looked as good as new, so I think the hotter the better. Yes the pump will cut out, but not before it has given the pump a good flush.


----------



## Crusty

Black n Tan said:


> The other day I set mine to 102C to clean and filled with hot taps water (around 50c) and homemade PBW and let it boil for about 10 minutes (well until my wife went into the laundry and it looked like a swedish sauna). The stainless looked as good as new, so I think the hotter the better. Yes the pump will cut out, but not before it has given the pump a good flush.


How much PBW are you using & how much water?
I did the same thing but maybe I didn't use enough PBW. It cleaned up ok but I thought it would of been a bit harder on tide lines & a bit better at removing crap on the element. It's sparkling clean now but I still had to use some elbow grease.


----------



## Dan Pratt

lately I have been using about 1g per litre.


----------



## Crusty

Pratty1 said:


> lately I have been using about 1g per litre.


Ok cool.
I'm probably being a bit too tight arse on the PBW.
I'll up the concentration.
Cheers


----------



## Black n Tan

Usually I just use 1tbsp and enough water to cover the element. For that super wash I used 3Tbsp and enough water to cover the elements by about 5cm (to allow for boil off).


----------



## Crusty

Black n Tan said:


> Usually I just use 1tbsp and enough water to cover the element. For that super wash I used 3Tbsp and enough water to cover the elements by about 5cm (to allow for boil off).


I usually only use 1tbs & also enough water to cover the element allowing for boil off.
I'll whack a couple of tbs in next time.


----------



## doon

I dont know if im imagining things but it seems since I started using a dome and having the bm boil harder the elements are way easier to clean. Spray with hose quick eipe and they are done


----------



## dicko

doon said:


> I dont know if im imagining things but it seems since I started using a dome and having the bm boil harder the elements are way easier to clean. Spray with hose quick eipe and they are done


It is funny you say that doon,
I thought I was dreaming but I have noticed that the crap wipes off a lot easier since the dome went on.

I have not mixed my latest lot of home made PBW and I have cleaned mine the last two brews with dish washing liquid with a dish mop and hot water...it works fine but I do give a good rinse.


----------



## doon

Yep havent done a pbw was on it for ages now as it comes up way better then it did without dome. The elements used to be encrusted in stuff


----------



## mikk

Funnily enough, I've found cleaning much easier by procrastination. A few hours with the lid on after the brew day is complete, with the slops still in the unit result in gunk coming off the walls and element a lot easier later on. Nice to be lazy occasionally...


----------



## Dan2

mikk said:


> Funnily enough, I've found cleaning much easier by procrastination. A few hours with the lid on after the brew day is complete, with the slops still in the unit result in gunk coming off the walls and element a lot easier later on. Nice to be lazy occasionally...


I like your method mikk!
I'll try that next time.
I wonder what happens if you leave it sit for a day or 2 (actually, I know what happens - yucky)


----------



## zoigl

I use _*Napisan*_ without any scent, a pink plastic bottle. I buy it when Coles have it on special. I rinse out most of the trub, fill the BM with water to the thread on the central shaft, add about a cup of Napisan, place the malt tube inside sans seal. And crank the temp up to 79c, leave it over night and it's clean as a whistle. I believe it is very similar to PBW and a whole lot cheaper.
Next day, I fill the BM again with fresh water and soak for a while to get rid of any napisan residue.
I then turn it upside down, remove the pumps and check for cleanliness.
To drain the BM I attach a garden hose to the tap (push on, without any fittings) and drain into our drain or the garden.
A product for commercial cleaning windows and SS fridges etc,_* Halo,*_ in a squirt bottle gets rid of the water marks on the outside, I wouldn't use it inside. It's also good for SS kegerators. I get it from Godfreys Vacuum cleaner shops.
For the copper dome, _*Bar Keeper's Friend,*_ a product from the USA is hard to beat, It makes copper really spiffy without effort.
You should look to the internet for this, although, I have seen it in David Jones occasionally.
Recently, I bought a huge SS round washing bowl, Chinese, about $20- $30 Aus. There is a guy at the fisherman's market each sunday, and also he has a shop in North Adelaide. As soon as my copper hood is removed from the BM, it goes into this bowl and is covered with water, all the sticky stuff just falls off, a large plastic bowl should work too. Just don't let it dry before cleaning, is a big job then.
Anyway, my $0.02 worth. :beerbang:


----------



## dicko

I have been experimenting with the opportunity to do a high gravity brew with my 20 litre BM and this is what I did today to achieve a reasonable result.



Dicko’s Method 

On my BM with my efficiency I find that a 1.075 og beer will need 7.7 kg of grain

This recipe has 0.750kg of crystal.

If I had have steeped the crystals in my recipe separately I would have achieved a *1.081* beer from the mash tun with the same volume of grain and just added the steeping from the crystal to the boil.

The basic theory behind my procedure below is that once the sugars are partially washed from the grain husks and are suspended in the water to form wort, then the volume of the grain in the mash is less by that amount of sugars.

Your personal figures will vary with the mash efficiencies within your system.

Weigh and crush the grain keeping the crystal and the balance of the base malt in a separate container which represents the difference between 5 kg and the total grain needed.

Measure your water to the 25 litre mark and then subtract the amount that represents the extra grain absorption above 6kg.
In my case this is 1.7kg x 0.66litre = 1.12litres.
So you will have approx 24 litres of water in the kettle for the mash. Add the extra water to the sparge amount.
I feel I could bring this volume down even further to around 23 litres and sparge the extra litre.

Bring the BM to dough in temp…I use 38deg.
Tip 5kg of crushed base grain into the malt pipe as per normal and mix thoroughly.
Lift the malt pipe onto the bottom pegs on the malt pipe and support it on the BM stirrup.
DO NOT lift the malt pipe completely out of the kettle as you will then introduce crushed grains into the wort through the bottom centre hole in the screen.

Insert the top plate and gently push the mash down the malt pipe…I gained 150mm of depth in the pipe.
Drop the malt pipe back into position slowly as it will take a little while for the wort to rise up through the grain again. I found by leaving the top screen on it saved any grain coming over the top.

Add the rest of the grain which in my case was 2.7kg of grain to the top of the malt pipe. Add only small amount and stir well as you go.
When the grain is in and wet then place the top screen back on and gently compress the grain so that you can install the cross bar and wing nut.

I need to add that I have a rubber seal on my top screen and this prevented any grain from escaping. This is something that may need to be watched if you are “riding bareback” without the rubber.  :lol: 

Now just start your program from the dough in as you normally would.
I have noticed as the mash becomes hotter the flow increases through the malt pipe. Although it is slower than normal I would assume this happens anyway in any mash size.

I might add at this stage that I would not advise a full volume mash with this method as I feel it would come very close to overflowing the kettle. This would be up to the courage and daring of the operator  :lol: 

I have lifted the top plate and stirred the mash at the middle of each mash step except for mash out when I stirred it at the beginning of the step as I wanted to achieve a clear wort.
I must point out that the grain bed was fairly solid and actually rather than stir I pushed a piece of stainless flat bar about 2.5mm thick and about 25 mm wide from the top of the bed to the bottom. You could use a large knife or similar for this process.
I did this stirring or stabbing because I was doubtful of good extraction but I can’t tell now as I got to my pre boil gravity as predicted. VERY HAPPY.    I will have to try another mash without stirring to find out.

I also stabbed the grain bed for the sparge as I found it was fairly slow and I was getting impatient.


Here is my recipe

Dicko’s Doppelbock

Pre Boil Gravity 1.062
Post Boil OG 1.075
Predicted FG 1.015.

Batch Size 25l in kettle after cooling
IBU 23.9 calculated No Chill at 27

Grain
68.6% Vienna
21.8% Pilsener
9% Caramunich
0.6% Carafa 2

Mash
Dough in 38 deg
10 mins at 40 deg
10 mins at 50 deg
60 mins at 60 deg
20 mins at 70 deg
20 mins at 77 deg

Hops
44gr of Spalt 5.2%aa at 60 mins
32gr of Hallatau Mittlefrau 3.0%aa at 10 mins (no chill)

Yeast
63gr of S189. coz that’s the only lager yeast I have at the moment.

Water
Total water (ppm): 
Ca: 128 / 128
Mg: 11 / 11
Na: 0 / 0
Cl: 69 / 69
SO4: 124 / 124
Cl to SO4 Ratio: 0.55 / 0.55

Alkalinity (CaCO3): 70 
RA: -28 
Estimated pH: 5.42
Added the chalk only to the mash.


And here are some pictures.








Not a bad result out of a 20 litre BM


----------



## brewchampion

WFT Dikko??? 
You got images of the braumeister doing that? 
I'm lost!


----------



## dicko

brewchampion said:


> WFT Dikko???
> You got images of the braumeister doing that?
> I'm lost!


A 5 hour video can be difficult to achieve when brewing off the cuff on a wim and a thought of how it can all come together to achieve what I needed to achieve, however, give it a go if you need to brew a bigger than normal beer.
I am extremely pleased with my result and will be doing it again.


----------



## dicko

Brewchampion,

This is the space in the malt pipe that is gained after doughin.
I gained approx 150mm and that is where I fitted the extra grain in to bring the gravity up.


----------



## dicko

My little Sunday morning effort to make a bit of brewing equipment is achieved more easily when most of the brewing community is in church h34r: :lol:

I decided that a Duda Diesel hop spider was out of the question with cost for my BM so this is what I have done to achieve the same result.

First up I bought one of these

http://kegking.com.au/hop-spider.html

Then I went to the local boat chandlary shop and bought a half inch s/steel skin fitting.













The extra hole is because I miscalculated the centre of the bracket once it was bent but it works just the same anyway.

I will use it in anger on my next brew


----------



## MattSR

Hi Dicko,

Love the hop spider.

I have a question about the malt-repacking method above, would it be possible to simple leave the malt pipe in place, and push the top plate down to free up space? Or is the reason for lifting the pipe to remove the water/malt liquor in order to make more room? I figure that maybe it's possible to just wear some thick gloves and push the plate down to make room for more malt..

Cheers,
Matt


----------



## dicko

Hi Matt,

The reason to lift the malt pipe is so that the wort runs out of the grain husks and actually leaves the space to add some extra grain.
If you leave the malt pipe in place then the husks are floating in the mash and wont allow you to add much more malt at all.
To be honest I haven't tried it the way you mentioned and on thinking about it it may work....you could give it a try and then lift the pipe if it doesn't work....nothing lost really.

Just remember not to lift the malt pipe higher than the first lugs otherwise if you expose the centre hole of the bottom screen then grain will fall out and into your wort.

If you try it please report back on here if you can to let us know your results.

Just a bit OT but my Dopplebock is in the lager fridge as I type and the sample is extremely tasty :chug: :icon_drool2:


----------



## MattSR

Hi Dicko,

Gave it a try with a Little Creatures Bright Ale clone last night. I didn't add any extra malt as I just wanted to see how much room I could make in the malt pipe.

The grain bill was 11.2KG and by hand I could compress the wet malt to free up 140mm of free space. The thing that did occur, was that as I compressed the malt by hand, the water/malt liquor in the outside section rose up, and that was the limiting factor.

So in this instance, I compressed the grain, saw 140mm of space before the water would have reflowed back into the malt pipe. I didn't add any more malt as 11.2kg was already about a kilo more than the recipe called for.

I'm going to do a Russian Imperial Stout at some stage so I'll see how much extra I get in with that brew.

Cheers
Matt


----------



## dicko

Great stuff Matt,

you do need to drop the amount of mash liqueur (water) to allow for the extra grain that will cause the water to be higher than the malt pipe as you described.
Without complicated equations regarding water volumes if you were doing a big mash and used 23 litres instead of 25 litres as a normal mash then you would not be too far wrong with the volume to cover the elements and still allow enough to flow through the malt pipe. Just sparge the extra two litres at the end of the mash but check that the element is covered during the mash process.

I am pleased someone else is having a go at this as I really believe it gives the BM a great deal of flexibility with making a big beer.

Cheers


----------



## dicko

Matt,

My apologies mate, I just re read your post and you have a 50 litre model so I can not comment on the exact volume of water that will be required, however you may be safe in sticking with my first calculation of reducing the volume by the absorption amount over the recommended standard volume.
As long as the wort covers the elements and the wort does not overflow the malt pipe is a good start. 

cheers


----------



## MattSR

No worries at all, I'm still getting used to driving this thing and I reckon this next brew should be better than the last one by a mile.

Heck, I might even have my processes down pat enough to remember to measure the O.G. Next time! Maybe I might get to nail the volumes too...


Thanks again for the pointers!

Cheers,
Matt


----------



## lukec

Hey all, 
Heres a quick video of the whirlpool/chiller set up im rolling with in my 20l. This was the 1st try and seems to work well
https://youtu.be/HLjORntCHmQ


----------



## BJB

lukec said:


> Hey all,
> Heres a quick video of the whirlpool/chiller set up im rolling with in my 20l. This was the 1st try and seems to work well
> https://youtu.be/HLjORntCHmQ


Looks good, now get a Hop Rocket in there as well.


----------



## Dan Pratt

What's going on with all the hop debris????


----------



## lukec

Boil over, 


Pratty1 said:


> What's going on with all the hop debris????


----------



## wobbly

dicko said:


> My little Sunday morning effort to make a bit of brewing equipment is achieved more easily when most of the brewing community is in church h34r: :lol:
> 
> I decided that a Duda Diesel hop spider was out of the question with cost for my BM so this is what I have done to achieve the same result.
> 
> First up I bought one of these
> 
> http://kegking.com.au/hop-spider.html
> 
> Then I went to the local boat chandlary shop and bought a half inch s/steel skin fitting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hop Spider 001.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hop Spider 002.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> Hop Spider 003.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> The extra hole is because I miscalculated the centre of the bracket once it was bent but it works just the same anyway.
> 
> I will use it in anger on my next brew


Hi Dicko re your above post

With your modified Keg king Hop Spider can you detail your hop schedule in particular

Do you leave the spider in the wort through cooling and until you drain the BM 
If you remove it at the end of the boil how do you stop hop material draining out through the skin fitting hole - or don't you worry about what drains out into the wort/BM
If you leave the spider and all the hops in the wort/BM through chilling and until you drain the BM how do you calculate/compensate for the additional IBU's post boil
Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## dicko

Hi Wobbly,

I do leave the spider in the kettle until the wort is chilled unless I "no chill" and rhen I lift the spider at flame out.

When I lift the spider I hold it on the centre spigot for a minute or so until the majority of the liquid drains into the wort and then I lift the spider and discard the hop material into the sink.
A small amount of hop material does run out of the centre spigot but I dont worry about it.

Leaving the spider in during chilling is no different to just throwing the hop pellets into the boiler so for all intents and purposes I dont change any calculations for the hops in the spider.

Hope this helps


----------



## Wolfman

Anyone have any problems with over shooting the mash temp?


----------



## razz

By how much Wolfman? I watched mine get to .5 degree above set point and then it drops back to set point.


----------



## dicko

Do you have the new model BM Wolfman?

I have the older model and never had a problem but there has been a bit of discussion on it here...https://forum.braumeisters.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=903&p=8647&hilit=Overshooting+temperatures#p8647

Apparently if you are using the smaller malt pipe it can overshoot.
One pf the posts in that link include a reply from Speidel re the small pipe.


----------



## Spiesy

Wolfman said:


> Anyone have any problems with over shooting the mash temp?


Not according to the Brau temp display.


----------



## Wolfman

I have the older model. Full volume 50L. I noticed it with the last batch. I did have 12.7kg of malt in the pipe. Was the second time I have used the jacket as well. Was mashing at 68 and it was at 70. Checked with a thermometer and at the top it was 65. 

This batch is not attenuating very well. Started at 1.070 and dropped quickly to 1.030.


----------



## Crusty

I have the older interface & using the standard malt pipe or the shorter pipe for my 20lt batches it has never given me any overshoot, not once. I'm quite impressed with its accuracy.


----------



## Black n Tan

I have never noticed a temperature over-shoot on my 1st generation 50L BM even with the short malt-pipe.


----------



## Wolfman

I wonder if having the jacket on pushes the temp up? I've only noticed it since having the jacket.


----------



## Black n Tan

I use a jacket also, so don't think that is the reason. Could one of the pumps be blocked?


----------



## Batz

I have an older 50lt, I always use the jacket and have never had a problem.

Batz


----------



## Crusty

Like the boys above, I always use the jacket & no overshoot.


----------



## crhall41

Hi I added a can of amber LME late boil to my last big brew but realized I could not take a valid pre-boil gravity reading which is requested in Beersmith for determining mash efficiency. I did add the LME as an ingredient but I am unclear if Beersmith takes into account the fact that I had not yet added the LME. This made me think about adding the LME during the mash rather than at the end of the boil. Has anyone tried this with their BM or can you think of a reason why this would not be a good idea?

Thx, Chris


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

crhall41 said:


> Hi I added a can of amber LME late boil to my last big brew but realized I could not take a valid pre-boil gravity reading which is requested in Beersmith for determining mash efficiency. I did add the LME as an ingredient but I am unclear if Beersmith takes into account the fact that I had not yet added the LME. This made me think about adding the LME during the mash rather than at the end of the boil. Has anyone tried this with their BM or can you think of a reason why this would not be a good idea?
> 
> Thx, Chris


Beersmith has an 'add after boil' tick box on ingredients. Did you try that?


----------



## Charst

Hey All,

Knocked out my Second Batch on my 20L. Tried leaving the mash at mash out temp for a few hours and seen a massive jump in efficiency compared to my maiden brew.

has anyone that does this noticed there beers dont attenuate as well?

I was supposed to be 21L at 1062 but ended up under boiling and got 23odd @ 1055

But I its stopped at 1015. 


Mash was

15 @ 52
45 @ 63
30 @ 68
10 @ 72
hours @ 78.

A Wolfman Ive noticed mine overshoot by half a degree with a Jacket. New Controller.


----------



## Blind Dog

Nope. Same attenuation whether I have a 20 min mash out or an overnighter. I can just get more beer, use less grain or get a higher ABV beer with the longer mash out.

You numbers are still around 73% so depending on yeast, pitch, aeration etc that could be it. You are saying it's done because it's stayed steady at 1.015 for a few days? Do a search for fast ferment test if you want to be certain it's done.


----------



## wobbly

There has been considerable discussion on this topic and others about the weak/intensity of boil with the BM and to some extent this has been improved with the use of a "Hood and Thermal Jacket"

There is also another topic where "Full Volume Mashing and No Sparge" are discussed

Has any one experimented with doing a full volume mash say starting with 30liters in a 20lt Braumeister (flooded malt pipe) with a grain bill of say 5/5.5kgs to end up and do a minimal or no sparge to end up with a preboil volume of around only 24lts and so ending up with a post boil volume of 20/21lts and then topping up with say 5 or 6 lts of tap or suitably treated water WRT to pH depending on what you have set your trub losses to targeting a final volume into the fermentor of say 21lts

By having a small boil volume the intensity of the boil should be more vigorous 

What started me thinking about this was a side comment on the Braumeister Forum

Cheers

Wobbly

I understand that it may be necessary to adjust hop rates due to the higher wort gravity


----------



## Dan Pratt

Wobbly,

I've been trying full volume no sparge mashed lately and got good results, however I'm not topping up at end of boil.

I've tried between 4 & 5kg malt bills and anywhere from 29 - 34 litres, usually finishing with 19/20lts into the FV. 

My calc my start volume on target FV volume. 20lts plus boil off of 3lts for 60mins, plus trub/losses (depends on hops/style) but usually 4litres for APA or IPA, plus grain absorption and with my crush its about 70% so for 4kg malt plus 3lts.

Start volume 30lts.


----------



## Blind Dog

Pratty1 said:


> trub/losses (depends on hops/style) but usually 4litres for APA or IPA,


seems like a lot to lose to trub and hops. Is it deliberate to absolutely minimise trub etc into cube/FV, or just something you live with? Must admit I try to recover most of the wort and the trub heavy stuff at the bottom of the BM is often strained and reboiled and either used for a starter or tipped into the cube. Even if I don't do that, losses to trub are a lot less than 4L - mind you, given I can rarely be bothered bottling the last litre or so of beer still int he FV once the keg is full, its kind of dumb I guess


----------



## Batz

Blind Dog said:


> seems like a lot to lose to trub and hops. Is it deliberate to absolutely minimise trub etc into cube/FV, or just something you live with? Must admit I try to recover most of the wort and the trub heavy stuff at the bottom of the BM is often strained and reboiled and either used for a starter or tipped into the cube. Even if I don't do that, losses to trub are a lot less than 4L - mind you, given I can rarely be bothered bottling the last litre or so of beer still int he FV once the keg is full, its kind of dumb I guess


Same, I use a dip tube and are left with around 3.5 litres. This I tip into a large jug and let settle, I then pour off 2 - 2.5 PET bottles and freeze. I then boil this for starters, if your a dry yeast guy I guess this is not important.

Edit: Sorry not answering the O.P.'s question.


----------



## Charst

Help wanted!
Not sure if this is the right thread, but Ive done a batch with the Brau and overshot my Preboil Gravity by 4points.
Mash profile attached but started it at 1:00am last night and sparged at lunch. so it sat @ 78 for 10 hours.

Third batch with Beersmith and I cant seem to figure out how I adjust the est preboil (looking for an actual preboil field) so i can adjust the hopping.

Brau Profile was from the BeerSmith Add-ons section.
Recipe Mash shedule is my own..

any help will be much appreciated.


----------



## razz

Just looking at BS Charst I tried changing the total efficiency on the design screen, that changed the pre-boil gravity figure. The first time I overnight mashed I set the BM up for a long 78 degrees rest (like you have done) and I overshot also. The last two batches I have set the BM to sit at 25 degrees for six hours and then keep the other rests the same time frames as I usually would. That kept my mash efficiency the same.


----------



## Charst

Cheers Razz, I think i'll be doing more overnighters so i'll have to dial it in, boil off is still all over the shop also.

I just thought when i got beersmith it would have some on the fly adjustment calculators rather than fiddling with your recipe. 


Still made beer.


----------



## mckenry

Da-Da - can I get a high 5? Ive joined the club with a 50L arriving tomorrow. After 8 years on a 3V and god knows how long with the esky mash tun before that, Ive decided to update to the air conditioned, cruise controlled, ABS model..

OK, after 2 days getting through all 44 pages, I have two questions.

1. Now that MHB is no longer in business, where can I buy a pickup tube? Not overly interested in getting someone to make one for me. 
2. Whats the go with the boil temp? Its not well explained for a thickhead like me. Seems like everyone is using 102°C to ensure it doesnt flick on/off all the time? Now, I don't have a manual yet, but wouldn't this temp never be reached and therefore the countdown never begin? Bit vague on the reasons.
Cheers bretheren.
mckenry


----------



## Brew Matt

mckenry said:


> 2. Whats the go with the boil temp? Its not well explained for a thickhead like me. Seems like everyone is using 102°C to ensure it doesnt flick on/off all the time? Now, I don't have a manual yet, but wouldn't this temp never be reached and therefore the countdown never begin? Bit vague on the reasons.
> Cheers bretheren.
> mckenry


What you state here is correct. The programming of the BM however handles this, and as a result, the countdown does begin when 100°C is reached. (I am assuming it is 100°C, and not 99.xx°C), but can tell you that the BM does not get caught in an infinite loop (which is a worry for beginners trying to make sense of things).


----------



## razz

Well done mckenry and welcome to the club. Q1, making a pick up is pretty easy and I even soldered mine together. If you want something of the shelf then you could look at the springer assembly that is on the Braumeister forum and made in Italy. Reasonably expensive when you get freight included. Not sure of any other products out there and I don't recall what MHB had on their site. 
Q2. Reaching 102 degrees is beside the point, it does keep the element powered on and I get a good consistent rolling boil that gives me 5lts per hour evaporation rate. The countdown does begin when the temp is steady for two minutes or something like that. Works every time for me so far. I just had a squizz through my instruction booklet and can't find the reference to commencing the boil, I may have read it elsewhere.


----------



## Crusty

It will never reach 102 therefore the element will be on continuously. Don't panic either when it reads 99 & seems to be well & truly boiling as it needs a stable temp before the countdown begins & this can be up to a couple of minutes after you thinks it's boiling. Forget the dip tube, it's really not essential.


----------



## brewchampion

Crusty said:


> It will never reach 102 therefore the element will be on continuously. Don't panic either when it reads 99 & seems to be well & truly boiling as it needs a stable temp before the countdown begins & this can be up to a couple of minutes after you thinks it's boiling. Forget the dip tube, it's really not essential.


I second crusty,
I dont think the dip tube is needed.
Thats a big gap between the trub and the tap.
Let the cold break in though, give your yeast food!


----------



## mckenry

Is anyone using a little brown pump to push through a plate chiller on the way to the fermenter?
Any pics of how its setup?


----------



## Black Devil Dog

This is my pick up tube. I bought the s/s tube from online brewing supplies and the silicon plug from Full pint, the plug is from a Brewtech conical fermenter.











You might need to buy an el-cheapo s/steel bowl and make a hood, they definitely improve the boil.


----------



## Charst

Kmart has a steel mixing bowl for $6 that does my job perfectly


----------



## mckenry

Crusty said:


> It will never reach 102 therefore the element will be on continuously. Don't panic either when it reads 99 & seems to be well & truly boiling as it needs a stable temp before the countdown begins & this can be up to a couple of minutes after you thinks it's boiling. Forget the dip tube, it's really not essential.





brewchampion said:


> I second crusty,
> I dont think the dip tube is needed.
> Thats a big gap between the trub and the tap.
> Let the cold break in though, give your yeast food!


So what are the losses to trub and kettle without a pickup tube?
With and without tipping I guess would be good to know. At this stage I feel as if I wont want to tip the kettle. Might be a hangup from 3V though.
Cheers.


----------



## razz

In the 50BM i measured 10 lts loss in the kettle (without tilting the kettle) so that's why I installed a pickup. Now I chill in the kettle, pump everything into the fermenter, allow to settle and rack off a couple of litres of trub after a few hours of chilling. No big deal in tilting the kettle, just watch out for the bottom of the console when doing so.


----------



## Crusty

mckenry said:


> So what are the losses to trub and kettle without a pickup tube?
> With and without tipping I guess would be good to know. At this stage I feel as if I wont want to tip the kettle. Might be a hangup from 3V though.
> Cheers.


Ive got BeerSmith set to 4.0lt. After the boil, I put the lid on & walk away for 15-20mins. Come back, whirlpool, lid on & disappear again for 20-30mins. Come back to crystal clear wort. Drain it to fermenter till it stops on its own, tilt the BM to get the last couple of litres out, too easy.


----------



## Dan Pratt

Crusty said:


> After the boil, I put the lid on & walk away for 15-20mins. Come back, whirlpool, lid on & disappear again for 20-30mins. Come back to crystal clear wort.


Crusty,

Why do you put the lid on, then 15-20mins later come back and do the whirlpool and wait another 20mins or so?

When my boil is finished I whirlpool and comeback 10mins later with either FV or cube for transfer and the wort is crystal clear.

Seems like you could get the same process done in much less time, unless your hopstanding?


----------



## Charst

Pretty sure Crusty is giving the wort time to drop in temp a bit before whirlpooling to reduce the amount of convection currents.
If an immediate whirlpool works for you happy days, but I usually wait until my worts drops to 80 odd before I whirlpool as the convection currents even if minor, are stirring your wort up otherwise.


----------



## Crusty

Pratty1 said:


> Crusty,
> 
> Why do you put the lid on, then 15-20mins later come back and do the whirlpool and wait another 20mins or so?
> 
> When my boil is finished I whirlpool and comeback 10mins later with either FV or cube for transfer and the wort is crystal clear.
> 
> Seems like you could get the same process done in much less time, unless your hopstanding?


As Charst pointed out, I just give it some time for the convection currents to settle down & I find better seperation doing it this way as opposed to whirlpooling straight away.


----------



## zoigl

Charst said:


> Pretty sure Crusty is giving the wort time to drop in temp a bit before whirlpooling to reduce the amount of convection currents.
> If an immediate whirlpool works for you happy days, but I usually wait until my worts drops to 80 odd before I whirlpool as the convection currents even if minor, are stirring your wort up otherwise.


This sounds a bit strange to me, why bother about convection currents when you are going to whirlpool? Surely whirl-pooling will stir up the wort while chilling it and should thus defeat your original goals. I put a lid on my BM50 to keep out airborne bugs as the wort cools especially below 78c. I am open to hear your views.


----------



## paulyman

Convection currents are stirring up the wort all over the place, so all the coagulating protein and hop matter will drop fairly uniformly all over the bottom. A whirlpool is aiming to stir the wort in a uniform direction to get all the protein and hop matter to drop into the center. Waiting for the convection currents to reduce will minimise the two systems of movement competing.


----------



## paulyman

That being said, it would be an interesting exbeeriment to see whether there was any visual difference between starting the whirlpool straight away and leaving for 30 minutes and leaving for 20 minutes and then whirlpooling for the final 10. I'd hypothesise that after 20 minutes in either case the motion of the whirlpool is dominating and the end result would be indistinguishable.


----------



## mckenry

Cant speak for the braumeister yet (have a note to pick it up from the post office today woo hoo) but in my 3V, if I whirlpooled while convection currents were still active, it would appear to dominate and everything would gather to the centre, but the kettle was still hot after 10 minutes and the convection currents would 'flare up' again and the trub would resuspend.
I'd imagine that's the same for the brau or any kettle?

Ive only ever had gas fired boilers, so maybe they get the kettle hotter than electric models like BIAB and brau, (hence the more vigorous boil) therefore requiring a 20 minute rest for the temp to drop in the vessel, convection to die down, before whirlpooling is effective.

If the brau is cooler quicker, then yes, the wait may not be required. Maybe those that are waiting are doing so for no reason?

Be interesting to see.
Sorry for the fence sitting.


----------



## Batz

By the time I remove the hop bag and give it a quick hose off, I believe the convection currents are all but over. I do my whirlpool straight after this, perhaps 2 minutes, always have had a good result. But each to their own.

Batz


----------



## zoigl

I use a conical fermenter, so I am not too worried about the trub, it settles fairly quickly. I also only use 1 whirlfloc tablet (crushed) per 43 litres of wort. I prefer the taste of unfiltered beer and some very minor haze is OK with me, but generally my Pilsners sparkle. I lager for a minimum of 4 weeks at 8 c


----------



## Goose

Crusty said:


> Ive got BeerSmith set to 4.0lt. After the boil, I put the lid on & walk away for 15-20mins. Come back, whirlpool, lid on & disappear again for 20-30mins. Come back to crystal clear wort. Drain it to fermenter till it stops on its own, tilt the BM to get the last couple of litres out, too easy.



I was just bequeathed a very little used ( i think twice) 50l BM from a person that decided brewing was'nt for him. Being used to a 3V system finely calibrated to Beersmith, I have to start again with this unit. 

I gave it a water run today, and after a tilt (using my refractometer case as the support at rear) to drain, I measured very close to 5 litres of liquid remaining. That seems quite a bit to me, or is this normal in your experience ?

Hence considering a dip tube, but at least in my case the element seems to traverse the diameter of the exit drain and not keen to have the element touch the dip tube. :blink:. I suppose i could increase my tilt angle manually toward the end to scrape out another litre instead of a dip tube ?


----------



## Coalminer

Goose
My dip tube touches the element and has no effect on anything
have done 74 brews with my 20L with no problems


----------



## lickapop

Just wondering if anyone has ever noticed any sour notes in their brews when doing an overnight mash? 
In the past I have soaked sorghum overnight and it is pretty funky in the morning from natural fermentation. Have you guys ever noticed this with malt? Is it even possible?

I am definitely going to try an overnight mash as soon as I finish building my new brew space but the natural fermentation scenario has always been a question I have wanted to ask those that have successfully done over nighters


----------



## Batz

I do lots of o/night mashing and have never had any sour notes. The mash does sit at mash out temperature so it would be very doubtful if any natural fermentation would take place.


----------



## lickapop

ok thanks. 
So you mash out for a longer period. Makes sense. 
I'm not sure if I was reading here or elsewhere but some were mashing in for extended periods @25C.


----------



## Batz

I do a normal mash and just let it sit at mash out until I get up and start the sparge.


----------



## razz

I do the opposite to Batz lickapop, I overnight mash but the mash sits at 25 degrees for 6-7 hours and then the mash goes through a regular process. No signs of sourness with mine either.


----------



## lickapop

I just found some distillers malt in storage and put some on to soak as an experiment to see if I get any activity.



I'm guessing 6 hour soak isn't going to make a difference but I'm keen to see anyway just to keep my options open.


----------



## Goose

Batz said:


> I do lots of o/night mashing and have never had any sour notes. The mash does sit at mash out temperature so it would be very doubtful if any natural fermentation would take place.


I presume that is at 78... no astringency either due to extended (how many hours) mashout ?


----------



## Batz

Goose said:


> I presume that is at 78... no astringency either due to extended (how many hours) mashout ?


For my o/night I mash-out at 77C, never had a problem with astringency either. Mash-out nominally sits for around 6 hours.


----------



## fraser_john

Batz said:


> <snip> o/night mashing <snip>


Man, this is such a good concept!


----------



## Goose

Batz said:


> For my o/night I mash-out at 77C, never had a problem with astringency either. Mash-out nominally sits for around 6 hours.


tks Batz, good to know.

Not so keen on having the pump and elements running for 6 hours unnecessarily though.... wear and tear on the pumps and additional power bill not an issue ?


----------



## Cervantes

Batz said:


> For my o/night I mash-out at 77C, never had a problem with astringency either. Mash-out nominally sits for around 6 hours.


I also use this method and the only difference that I can detect is a slight darkening in colour of the wort and a couple of point improvement in my mash efficiency.


----------



## Batz

Goose said:


> .... wear and tear on the pumps and additional power bill not an issue ?


I may have worried once, but I've been doing this every brew day now for a few years. Never give it a second thought these days.


----------



## lickapop

After 6hours no sign of any sour smell and sour taste, has a slight fizz but could be air from the grain or the beginnings of fermentation. Will leave it go for a little while longer. 

Any reason why you mash in longer razz or others instead of mash out longer?
Sorry if this has been covered. I can't remember reading about it anywhere


----------



## razz

The first o/n mash i did was with a long mash out, about 3-4 hours. There was a bit of discussion at the time about the long mash out affecting the finished beer and the brew I did was a dunkel. I thought at first that the flavour was't what it should be so I switched my o/n brew regime to what I do now. As it turned out the dunked tasted pretty good after a week or two in the keg. I've done a couple of brews since and left my process that way.
I've just filled the BM for a brew overnight and this time I thought "bugger it" I'm just going to dough in with the system switched off and get up at 7 and turn it on and start the mash.


----------



## falcoah

I overnight mash using a low temp mash (25C) for 6 hours. Last night I brewed a dortmunder export and found (for the first time) that the iodine test at the end of the mash showed incomplete conversion (black colour). 

Other differences from my usual procedure includes a lower than normal sacchrification rest (66C) and an acid rest (40C) for 60 mins. I also used RO water with no salts added.

Despite the incomplete conversion I still nailed my predicted pre and post boil numbers and its fermenting away happily


----------



## lickapop

You need the salt.. Your ph was probably off
Just adding calcium would have helped your conversion


----------



## Cervantes

razz said:


> I've just filled the BM for a brew overnight and this time I thought "bugger it" I'm just going to dough in with the system switched off and get up at 7 and turn it on and start the mash.


My reasoning is that if I let the mash run overnight and sit at 77 until I get up, that's an hour or more saved in the morning. All I have to do is pull the malt pipe and go straight into the boil.


Edit: Fat Fingers


----------



## Dan Pratt

Ive done the overnight mash quite a few times and only recently got a couple of sour batches. I didn't have this issue out our old house, just since we moved. 

I do the rest at 25c for 5-6hrs and then ramp up and I think the extended time at low temp in the new garage caused these off flavour, it happened on 3 consecutive over night mashes...... I should of tried the longer mash out method getting the wort temp hotter sooner to prevent spoilage range (25c -35c).

One thing I would do is set mash out at 74 to stop the colour changing but that was only for pale beers.


----------



## dicko

On another forum many members there are from England and they use the cold extended period for overnite mashing due to the ambient temp being very cold <15c.
Ambient in my brauhaus can be 25c during summer.
When I overnite mash I do the extended rest at 76c generally


----------



## Goose

dicko said:


> *On another forum* many members there are from England and they use the cold extended period ............


Well nobody can be bothered to answer on the "other" forum and perhaps my question there was a little vague but will try my luck here instead with a more detailed question.

I'm new to this kit and plan to give it a run after I've done my homework and modded my outlet valve after parts arrive. My objective is to get 44 litres of wort into my fermenter. I am trying to calculate how much sparge water I need to use. 

The reverse engineered calculation goes like this:

Target volume: 44.0 l (into fermenter)

add loss to Trub (loss in BM) 4.0
add loss to chiller 1.0
add cooling shrinkage 2.0
add boil loss 5.0 (1 hour, 8.9%) 

Total to boil: 56.0 l 

now, if I fill the BM to the standard 53 litres (just reading instruction manual) and conduct the mash, assuming a 9.5 kg grain weight bill;

grain absorbtion 9.5 l (@ 1 kg/l)
volume of wort before sparge 43.5 l

sparge volume required: 12.5 l (to take me to 56.0 l boil volume)

Am I right ? if I am, then this becomes a 2V system because I now need to go out and buy a mega sized pot and sit and watch it till I heat up and retain water at 76 degrees C for the sparge. Arrggh. :huh:


----------



## razz

I think some of us are running an urn to do sparge water. The other thing you can do is add your total water required to the BM and do a no sparge. Your figures look okay to me. After your first couple of brews you will be able to fine tune your numbers and get them bang on. Sorry for not being on the other forum, i was in the shed brewing. :chug:


----------



## zoigl

I weigh all my water additions, and leftovers. Don't forget that the malt tube with wet grain comes into the equation, (like I did as a beginner.) My plastic jugs are not accurate with the volumes marked.
A traveller's hand scale is helpful. 1kg = 1 litre
Top line = 52 litres
I lauter with 10 litres @78c but there seems to be a lot of room with this temperature, don't go over 78c seems the rule to avoid excess tannins. I use an urn with a temperature control, plug in variety, see Keg King catalogue.
With 10 kg grain @ mash in, I end up with around 37 kg as trub/wet grain in the tube.
The original tap on my mark 1 model about 6 years old works really well, I do not understand why any one would want to change it, MHB seems to have started this move, I couldn't see how he could have cleaned his tap, so I stayed with the original and am very happy with it. Silicon hose will clamp onto it. Use a simple clamp with the plastic finger turning attachment.
hope this helps, cheers


----------



## Goose

razz said:


> I think some of us are running an urn to do sparge water. The other thing you can do is add your total water required to the BM and do a no sparge. Your figures look okay to me. After your first couple of brews you will be able to fine tune your numbers and get them bang on. Sorry for not being on the other forum, i was in the shed brewing. :chug:


This one interests me. When you say total water, you mean during the mash I presume. So the malt pipe would be submerged during the process ? Are there any efficiency differences vs sparging ?


----------



## Goose

zoigl said:


> I weigh all my water additions, and leftovers. Don't forget that the malt tube with wet grain comes into the equation, (like I did as a beginner.) My plastic jugs are not accurate with the volumes marked.
> A traveller's hand scale is helpful. 1kg = 1 litre
> *Top line = 52 litres*
> I lauter with 10 litres @78c but there seems to be a lot of room with this temperature, don't go over 78c seems the rule to avoid excess tannins. I use an urn with a temperature control, plug in variety, see Keg King catalogue.
> With 10 kg grain @ mash in, I end up with around 37 kg as trub/wet grain in the tube.
> The original tap on my mark 1 model about 6 years old works really well, I do not understand why any one would want to change it, MHB seems to have started this move, I couldn't see how he could have cleaned his tap, so I stayed with the original and am very happy with it. Silicon hose will clamp onto it. Use a simple clamp with the plastic finger turning attachment.
> hope this helps, cheers



Tks zoigy. Top line is 52 l or 55 as per manual ?, or is this your measured (weighed) vol ?


----------



## Cervantes

Goose said:


> This one interests me. When you say total water, you mean during the mash I presume. So the malt pipe would be submerged during the process ? Are there any efficiency differences vs sparging ?


Yes with a submerged malt pipe. Bring all the water up to your required mash in temperature, then drain enough out into a bucket to allow you to insert the malt pipe and add your malt. Once this is done re-introduce the water from your bucket and mash as normal.

I've only done this a couple of times and don't recall the exact figures, but I'm pretty sure that there was no loss of efficiency.


----------



## zoigl

I weighed it, I have some commercial, shop counter, digital scales, from eBay, which weigh up to 35kg. (Not forgetting to tare the bucket first.)
I usually brew Pilsners and use 30 L of rainwater and 22 L filtered tap water so I have a check on the BM quantity, I also lauter with 10 L of rainwater. My Pilsners are very OK to me.
The tube with saddle, filters, rubber seal and my patented drip tray comes in at 43.95 kg with the wet grain mash when I haul it out with an overhead hoist.


----------



## bullsneck

Goose said:


> Well nobody can be bothered to answer on the "other" forum and perhaps my question there was a little vague but will try my luck here instead with a more detailed question.
> 
> I'm new to this kit and plan to give it a run after I've done my homework and modded my outlet valve after parts arrive. My objective is to get 44 litres of wort into my fermenter. I am trying to calculate how much sparge water I need to use.
> 
> The reverse engineered calculation goes like this:
> 
> Target volume: 44.0 l (into fermenter)
> 
> add loss to Trub (loss in BM) 4.0
> add loss to chiller 1.0
> add cooling shrinkage 2.0
> add boil loss 5.0 (1 hour, 8.9%)
> 
> Total to boil: 56.0 l
> 
> now, if I fill the BM to the standard 53 litres (just reading instruction manual) and conduct the mash, assuming a 9.5 kg grain weight bill;
> 
> grain absorbtion 9.5 l (@ 1 kg/l)
> volume of wort before sparge 43.5 l
> 
> sparge volume required: 12.5 l (to take me to 56.0 l boil volume)
> 
> Am I right ? if I am, then this becomes a 2V system because I now need to go out and buy a mega sized pot and sit and watch it till I heat up and retain water at 76 degrees C for the sparge. Arrggh. :huh:


Today I brewed using the Brau without my urn to heat some sparge water. I usually sparge with 8-10L.
What I did was boil our 1.8L kettle 4 times. Each time I would add 200mL of cold tap water which would get me down to 75c. Perfect.
Perhaps that is an option for you.


----------



## dicko

Cervantes said:


> Yes with a submerged malt pipe. Bring all the water up to your required mash in temperature, then drain enough out into a bucket to allow you to insert the malt pipe and add your malt. Once this is done re-introduce the water from your bucket and mash as normal.
> 
> I've only done this a couple of times and don't recall the exact figures, but I'm pretty sure that there was no loss of efficiency.


Over on the other forum it has been quoted on several occasions by many brewers that a full volume mash does not lose any efficiency percentage points.

I had a s / steel pot with an element and a PID controller to perform my sparge....now that vessel is a Sous Vide. :lol:

This method negates the need for a second vessel, but if it was me I would try both ways just to satisfy my doubts and curiosity.


----------



## Goose

dicko said:


> Over on the other forum it has been quoted on several occasions that a full volume mash does not lose any efficiency percentage points.
> 
> This method negates the need for a second vessel, but if it was me I would try both ways just to satisfy my doubts and curiosity.


Thanks Dicko. I will go and dig on the other forum accordingly as I pursue answers to the many questions that spring to mind. Thanks for the tip on how to do the full volume mash, Cervantes.

I am intrigued by zoigl's determination of a 3 l systematic difference between the measured volume and that indicated by the tie rod. Think I will calibrate my 5 l pitcher on my hops scale and see for myself.

One final silly question if I may. I have a circuit capable of the amp draw but notice that the wall plug gets quite warm during heating and when I unplug it the prongs are too hot to touch to skin. I am concerned that my plastic wall socket might melt though it hasn't yet in the 1/2 hour test runs I have done so far. Is this normal ?


----------



## dicko

Zoigl has indicated that he weighed his water to get the correct volume.
After a personal experience using plastic jugs I must agree that weighing water is the way to go.
Some mark the centre rod..I personally made a hang over the side dipstick which indicates voume markings by weight.
Some have also etched their BM kettle.
MHB who was as I believe the original importer of BM's always weighed the water for the volume.
On the hot plug...I am not personally familiar with Singapore domestic supply for power but I would consult a professional in your area.
From memory there is another brewer with a BM from Singapore but unfortunately I think he is on that other forum.
I am on my phone at the moment so I cant give links to the info.
In fact i am lucky to be able to read the screen on this mobile skin


----------



## Goose

cheers Dicko. yes I'm aware of that owner though he has the 20l version, so he has no issues.

fwiw my circuit is 15 A, and the bloke I acquired it from changed the Eu plug to a standard 13A UK 3 pin version. The power cable looks like an overkill, so I am sure that is not the issue.


----------



## dicko

Goose said:


> cheers Dicko. yes I'm aware of that owner though he has the 20l version, so he has no issues.
> 
> fwiw my circuit is 15 A, and the bloke I acquired it from changed the Eu plug to a standard 13A UK 3 pin version. The power cable looks like an overkill, so I am sure that is not the issue.


Without wanting to be negative or appear to be rude to you we are not really permitted to comment too much on electrical installations due to legal and more importantly safety requirements.
If by some chance that there is a qualified person with the knowledge of Singapore regulations on here then I would hope that he / she may assist you.
As a basic reply I feel that if plug or wiring are getting hot there is an underlying problem that should be addressed by a qualified person


----------



## Goose

dicko said:


> Without wanting to be negative or appear to be rude to you we are not really permitted to comment too much on electrical installations due to legal and more importantly safety requirements.
> If by some chance that there is a qualified person with the knowledge of Singapore regulations on here then I would hope that he / she may assist you.
> As a basic reply I feel that if plug or wiring are getting hot there is an underlying problem that should be addressed by a qualified person


No worries fella. Fully accept your comments on safety. 

I will have an electrician install a 15 A socket for me this week. 

But can I ask if you know what current it draws at full throttle ?


----------



## razz

Ha ha Dicko. My BM I use as a sous vide


----------



## Crusty

Goose said:


> No worries fella. Fully accept your comments on safety.
> 
> I will have an electrician install a 15 A socket for me this week.
> 
> But can I ask if you know what current it draws at full throttle ?


The 3200w element will draw roughly 13.4a & the two 23w pumps will draw roughly 0.2a so 13.6a has got you covered. A 15a supply is what you'll need.


----------



## dicko

razz said:


> Ha ha Dicko. My BM I use as a sous vide


Used my BM as a sous vide but when my sparger kettle became redundant it aquired a new identity.

It now moves around between family members....


----------



## mckenry

Hey brethren,
Ive read the entire 47 pages before, but basically skim reading looking for losses and temperatures. Please save me from re-reading it all again h34r:
I havent used my shiny new 50L just yet, but I still have a quick question.
When using the supplied lugs to sit the malt pipe on the supporting stirrup,(the bottom lugs, so as high as it can go) does the bottom of the malt pipe clear the top of the wort?
I intend mashing with the recommended 55L first go round the block and sparging.
I've seen a few youtube clips where the whole malt pipe is hoisted right up and out of the kettle. Are people doing that so it sparges properly? Or is the bottom of the grain bed free of all liquid when resting on the bottom lugs?
Thanks,
mckenry


----------



## zoigl

I usually have the malt tube on my hoist at least for the last few litres. You will probably find that some grain will work its way through the bottom hole and/or your lauter water will disappear rapidly. I found that using a plastic brewer's spoon with a long handle jammed into the spindle hole helps.
Once the rubber seal fell off, so make sure that it clears the heating elements.


----------



## Black n Tan

The grain will not be in contact with wort when you raise the malt pipe and rest on the bottom lugs. I use a hoist to make it easier to lift the malt pipe because it can get quite heavy with the grain and suction. I used to stand on my bench to lift the malt pipe which can be a little awkward so a hoist is a good option.


----------



## Goose

dicko said:


> Zoigl has indicated that he weighed his water to get the correct volume.
> After a personal experience using plastic jugs I must agree that weighing water is the way to go.
> Some mark the centre rod..I personally made a hang over the side dipstick which indicates voume markings by weight.
> Some have also etched their BM kettle.
> MHB who was as I believe the original importer of BM's always weighed the water for the volume.



Wouldn't mind marking the tie rod for reference to target pre boil volume.

Given I can't weigh 50+ kg accurately, what about pi x diameter squared / 4 x height ?

with my tape measure and my unit I reckon:

Height to top mark on tie rod = 37.2 cm
Diameter of BM tun = 44.0 cm

so 1mm tie rod = 0.152 litres

That puts water volume at 56.6 litres if filled to top notch of tie rod. Of course does not take into account volume of elements + tie rod, less what pump and submerged lines would take up.

Wrong ?


----------



## Black n Tan

Nothing wrong with the calcs and the figure correlates with what I measured using a measuring jug with the top marking at 57L.


----------



## Goose

Crusty said:


> The 3200w element will draw roughly 13.4a & the two 23w pumps will draw roughly 0.2a so 13.6a has got you covered. A 15a supply is what you'll need.


Thanks Crusty.

I do have a 15 A circuit, but standard sockets and plugs here (UK based) are 13 A rated. The problem was corrected with a 15 A socket and plug. I stress tested it on manual mode running pumps and elements for a good hour, and all good.

I also calibrated a 5 litre flask using my hops scale and found that the 55l mark on the tie rod was in fact, 55l, and marked 1 cm spots above this mark to determine 1.5l increments.

Now I am about ready to put this thing through its paces.... the only thing I have to figure now is how to fill the malt pipe up quickly and easily without spilling it over the side, on my 3V I am just used to dumping it in. :huh:


----------



## Cervantes

Goose said:


> Now I am about ready to put this thing through its paces.... the only thing I have to figure now is how to fill the malt pipe up quickly and easily without spilling it over the side, on my 3V I am just used to dumping it in. :huh:


I use a cheap stainless bowl with a hole just smaller than the diameter of the malt pipe cut in the bottom as a hood to increase the vigour of my boil. When mashing in I just turn this up the other way and use it as very effective funnel.


----------



## Goose

Cervantes said:


> I use a cheap stainless bowl with a hole just smaller than the diameter of the malt pipe cut in the bottom as a hood to increase the vigour of my boil. When mashing in I just turn this up the other way and use it as very effective funnel.


Yep next thing might be the hood though going to try the au naturale boil first and see how that goes.

I have seen the SS hood for the 50l version for around 300 bux. Expensive for what it is but not sure I could cut that hole safely even if I could find a 50cm dia bowl and the cutting disks needed.


----------



## Cervantes

Here is a link to Dicko's hood build on the BM forum. I just copied this. This is for a 20L, but the principle would be same for 50L, just with a bigger bowl.

Edit:

Another Dicko tip is to use a square bucket to tip the malt into the malt pipe. This way the malt flows from the corner of the bucket in a narrower stream and is easier to aim than if using a round bucket.


----------



## Dan2

Goose said:


> Yep next thing might be the hood though going to try the au naturale boil first and see how that goes.


If you are planning to use a hood, be careful with your hop additions when you do get it.
I've found hop utilisation to be much improved with the hood, and so have put up with a couple of very bitter beers while I recalibrate.


----------



## razz

That's an interesting observation Dan. I have used a s/s hood on my last couple of brews and find that there is always a decent amount of hop matter caught, on the walls, above the boil. I always stir it back in as I thought by not doing so would drop the utilisation.


----------



## Dan Pratt

razz said:


> That's an interesting observation Dan. I have used a s/s hood on my last couple of brews and find that there is always a decent amount of hop matter caught, on the walls, above the boil. I always stir it back in as I thought by not doing so would drop the utilisation.


I found the same thing when I use my hood on the 20L. The hop additions would be on the site of the kettle and I would also move the boiling wort to get that back into the beer, its something that didn't happen with the lid off. I cant say though it had an increased bitterness.

One tip is though, for all your late additions < 15m, just take the dome off and this will bring the boil velocity down and while your adding your flavour/aroma additions there is less driven off.


----------



## dicko

I use a hop spider and have not noticed any real increase with the hood. 
Maybe there is an increase and the spider counteracts the effect.
Just thinking aloud.....


----------



## mckenry

Black n Tan said:


> The grain will not be in contact with wort when you raise the malt pipe and rest on the bottom lugs. I use a hoist to make it easier to lift the malt pipe because it can get quite heavy with the grain and suction. I used to stand on my bench to lift the malt pipe which can be a little awkward so a hoist is a good option.


Dude - it was. During a 15L sparge the level of the wort flooded the bottom of the malt pipe.


----------



## Black n Tan

mckenry said:


> Dude - it was. During a 15L sparge the level of the wort flooded the bottom of the malt pipe.


Ermm it has been sometime, but this is German engineering at it best, surely it can't be so. I have just had a look and would be very surprised if the grain touches the wort when on the bottom lugs. Remember there is a gap between the bottom mesh (i.e.. grain bed) and the bottom of the malt pipe. Assuming you mashed in with 55L and used as little as 10kg of grain, your volume is likely to be about 60L or thereabouts after sparging: a rough estimate is that would need about 65L or more before the wort will be in contact with the grain on the bottom lug.


----------



## Goose

mckenry said:


> Dude - it was. During a 15L sparge the level of the wort flooded the bottom of the malt pipe.


How'd your first run go McKenry ? I did my maiden run today. Used incorrect grain absorbtion ( was more like 0.6 than 1.0 l/kg) and only achieved a 70% mash efficiency using the no sparge ie full volume method. Pretty disappointed, trying to figure what I will change for the next run.


----------



## danestead

dicko said:


> I use a hop spider and have not noticed any real increase with the hood.
> Maybe there is an increase and the spider counteracts the effect.
> Just thinking aloud.....


Ive just started using a hop spider in my 20L. I find that the wort doesnt boil inside the spider. When I say it doesnt boil, I mean there is no evident bubbles inside the spider. Because of this, I have been stirring the hops in there every 10 or so minutes as I am worried that hop utilisation may be down.

Do you experience the non-boiling and have you noticed any change to the bitterness/utilisation in your recipes?


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

mckenry said:


> Dude - it was. During a 15L sparge the level of the wort flooded the bottom of the malt pipe.


My experience is in line with other posts - while it hits the malt pipe - enough to establish a suction - there's enough height in the pipe without it touching the grain.

Still, it can be frustrating to not really be able to see an accurate water level. I've seen guys use an oven rack or similar to hold the pipe right at the lip. Personally I just create a pair of "skis" for want of a better word using the two lifting bars, holding the malt pipe precariously on the lip that way during sparge.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Goose said:


> I also calibrated a 5 litre flask using my hops scale and found that the 55l mark on the tie rod was in fact, 55l, and marked 1 cm spots above this mark to determine 1.5l increments:


Interesting. I (and others in this thread IIRC) found true volume was 5l more than stated - as though the were offsetting the dead space below the element and in pumps to simplify things.

I prefer to know true volume even though I know I won't get much of that 5l back.


----------



## dicko

danestead said:


> Ive just started using a hop spider in my 20L. I find that the wort doesnt boil inside the spider. When I say it doesnt boil, I mean there is no evident bubbles inside the spider. Because of this, I have been stirring the hops in there every 10 or so minutes as I am worried that hop utilisation may be down.
> 
> Do you experience the non-boiling and have you noticed any change to the bitterness/utilisation in your recipes?


I started with the hood and the hop sock at around the same time and didnt notice much difference.
I dont have a boil inside the hop sock and like you, i give the hops a stir inside the sock if they have clumped to the sides.
I only ever use pellets since I began to use the sock and to be honest I have not noticed any real change


----------



## razz

I know we all feel better if the hops within a spider appear to be boiling but if you check the temp it will be 100 degrees so the utilisation should be the same. The agitation of boiling just isn't there. It's another one of those great things about bucket chemistry we should have faith in.


----------



## Goose

Mr. No-Tip said:


> Interesting. I (and others in this thread IIRC) found true volume was 5l more than stated - as though the were offsetting the dead space below the element and in pumps to simplify things.
> 
> I prefer to know true volume even though I know I won't get much of that 5l back.


Well if you are right then it goes along way to explain my efficiency calculations.

As said, there would be errors in my volumetric method determination, the first of course is assuming my 1g calibrated scale is correct and then multiplying the volumetric error by 15 as I am using a 5 litre flask. Think I am going to repeat this for peace of mind and this time weigh each 5l addition.


----------



## Goose

Which I just did. Meant x 11 not 15 as above. Made sure that the scale was good enough, it measured same on another one I have. Should be good enough.

Anyway this time to be anal I added in the malt pipe and lower screen with mesh. I also ran pump after addition of first 10 litres to make sure those spaces filled.

After 55 litres I got this:


----------



## mckenry

Black n Tan said:


> Ermm it has been sometime, but this is German engineering at it best, surely it can't be so. I have just had a look and would be very surprised if the grain touches the wort when on the bottom lugs. Remember there is a gap between the bottom mesh (i.e.. grain bed) and the bottom of the malt pipe. Assuming you mashed in with 55L and used as little as 10kg of grain, your volume is likely to be about 60L or thereabouts after sparging: a rough estimate is that would need about 65L or more before the wort will be in contact with the grain on the bottom lug.


Yeah, you're probably right. Definitely was over the base of the malt pipe, which made sparging a PITA. I'm going to get a hoist so it flows out, rather than a seal/vacuum type of effect once the malt pipe rubber ring is submerged. I also think the grain absorption is less than a 3V right? See below



Goose said:


> How'd your first run go McKenry ? I did my maiden run today. Used incorrect grain absorbtion ( was more like 0.6 than 1.0 l/kg) and only achieved a 70% mash efficiency using the no sparge ie full volume method. Pretty disappointed, trying to figure what I will change for the next run.


Pretty much the same thing. Hit 70%.
Some tweaking required in beersmith. Got my 50L, but under gravity - only by a couple, yet my measure said 66 preboil after a 15L sparge, 55L mashin


----------



## mckenry

My above post would indicate my 10kg grain only absorbed 4L water. My 3V was 1L/kg Does 0.4L/kg sound anywhere near it? I should state that my 66 is rough, but not way off.


----------



## Black n Tan

I reckon it is somewhere in the order 0.8-1.0L/kg. For 10kg of grain you mashed in with 55L then sparge with 15L, what gravity and volume into the fermenter? For a 42L batch I would mash in with 50L and sparge with 10L (and I leave a lot behind in the BM after I chill, 8L or so). You are using 10L more water.


----------



## mckenry

I mashed with 55L. Sparged with 15. So that's 70. My losses were 5L to trub and chiller. Boil then transfer = 50L into the fermenter at about 1.042. Expected 1.046 with eff set at 72%. I think the preboil was approx 66L. So depending on the boil evap it would suggest far less than 1L/kg absorption.


----------



## Goose

razz said:


> I know we all feel better if the hops within a spider appear to be boiling but if you check the temp it will be 100 degrees so the utilisation should be the same. The agitation of boiling just isn't there. It's another one of those great things about bucket chemistry we should have faith in.


Agreed.

Most people think that a more aggressive boil will improve hop utilisation. I am dubious on this claim. The intensity of the boil does not increase the temperature of the wort. It does however, increase circulation in the boiler. While circulation must play a part, I believe by far the temperature is most important thing for the isomerisation reaction to take place.

I have always used a hop spider before, and while at the surface within the spider I agree I don't see vapour bubbles, that does not mean nothing is going on within its depths. I have not noticed any reduction in hop utilisation in doing so.


----------



## Black n Tan

mckenry said:


> I mashed with 55L. Sparged with 15. So that's 70. My losses were 5L to trub and chiller. Boil then transfer = 50L into the fermenter at about 1.042. Expected 1.046 with eff set at 72%. I think the preboil was approx 66L. So depending on the boil evap it would suggest far less than 1L/kg absorption.


Do you use Beersmith, if so here is my equipment profile. It works for me. Adjust you number to suit such as volume lost to rub, but otherwise they should be good for you to.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

After a fair while away from brewing im finally getting back into it. Just couldnt keep it up while I was studying and 2 little kids. We finally moved and now I have time to brew.
Anyway, I've decided to buy a 114 litre ss brewtech kettle to compliment my 50 litre braumeister.

What i plan to do is use the braumeister and the kettle on the same brewday. The wort from the braumeister will be pumped into the grain bed of the kettle and then from the kettle, wort will be pumped back into the braumeister.
This will allow me to brew 100 litres of wort and have temp control from the braumeister. The large 114 litre kettle will be BIAB and depending on gravity of beer have anywhere from 15 to 30 kg of grain in the bag.
Does anyone do this or has tried this and how would I go about entering this into beersmith? Just got beersmith.

Cheers


----------



## Bucks

Hey Gav, checkout this loose carnt http://youtu.be/C_c1Ir1n9dw


----------



## Thefatdoghead

Bucks said:


> Hey Gav, checkout this loose carnt http://youtu.be/C_c1Ir1n9dw


Hey Luke, longtime man.

Yeah thats where I got the idea but I thought why not just skip the eski and use the brau and the pot. Im going to need a lot of hops for some of my IPA's at 100 litre batches. Ha.


----------



## Cervantes

Gav80 said:


> After a fair while away from brewing im finally getting back into it. Just couldnt keep it up while I was studying and 2 little kids. We finally moved and now I have time to brew.
> Anyway, I've decided to buy a 114 litre ss brewtech kettle to compliment my 50 litre braumeister.
> 
> What i plan to do is use the braumeister and the kettle on the same brewday. The wort from the braumeister will be pumped into the grain bed of the kettle and then from the kettle, wort will be pumped back into the braumeister.
> This will allow me to brew 100 litres of wort and have temp control from the braumeister. The large 114 litre kettle will be BIAB and depending on gravity of beer have anywhere from 15 to 30 kg of grain in the bag.
> Does anyone do this or has tried this and how would I go about entering this into beersmith? Just got beersmith.
> 
> Cheers


Looks like it could work to me. I have the 20L and was doing double batches by using a separate keggle for the boil, which freed up the BM to start the second mash. But I think that this looks like a great idea if you want a lot of the same beer.

Please post and let us know how you go with it.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

Ill record my findings and post back here. Just not sure how to go about entering it into beersmith. Ill just go oldschool and do it off the top of my head. Ha.


----------



## mckenry

Black n Tan said:


> I reckon it is somewhere in the order 0.8-1.0L/kg. For 10kg of grain you mashed in with 55L then sparge with 15L, what gravity and volume into the fermenter? For a 42L batch I would mash in with 50L and sparge with 10L (and I leave a lot behind in the BM after I chill, 8L or so). You are using 10L more water.





mckenry said:


> I mashed with 55L. Sparged with 15. So that's 70. My losses were 5L to trub and chiller. Boil then transfer = 50L into the fermenter at about 1.042. Expected 1.046 with eff set at 72%. I think the preboil was approx 66L. So depending on the boil evap it would suggest far less than 1L/kg absorption.



I just did a volume measure on the 50L brau. The 55L mark is actually 56.8, but I am going to assume 55L and give the 1.8 to the pumps and hoses.
In fact all the measurements are 1.8-2.0L above what the brau would show.

Getting back to grain absorption.
I took measurements during my brewday, but didn't know what volume they equated to til now.
Was aiming for 50L into fermenter. Got 51.
Total water = 70L (55 mash, 15 sparge)
My preboil was 64.5L so that is only 5.5L/9.85kg lost to absorption. Which equals 0.56L/kg

Everything else worked out right,* WHICH IS A PROBLEM..*.

Evap set at 5L/hour and lost 6L over 75minutes
loss to trub and chiller 5L
cooling shrinkage 2.3L

So;
Preboil 64.5 - Total losses 13.3
=51.2 L into the fermenter... which is close enough to my estimated 51L
*PROBLEM IS MY GRAIN ABSORPTION IS SET TO DEFAULT 1L/kg*
*Any ideas?*


----------



## Black n Tan

mckenry said:


> I just did a volume measure on the 50L brau. The 55L mark is actually 56.8, but I am going to assume 55L and give the 1.8 to the pumps and hoses.
> In fact all the measurements are 1.8-2.0L above what the brau would show.
> 
> Getting back to grain absorption.
> I took measurements during my brewday, but didn't know what volume they equated to til now.
> Was aiming for 50L into fermenter. Got 51.
> Total water = 70L (55 mash, 15 sparge)
> My preboil was 64.5L so that is only 5.5L/9.85kg lost to absorption. Which equals 0.56L/kg
> 
> Everything else worked out right,* WHICH IS A PROBLEM..*.
> 
> Evap set at 5L/hour and lost 6L over 75minutes
> loss to trub and chiller 5L
> cooling shrinkage 2.3L
> 
> So;
> Preboil 64.5 - Total losses 13.3
> =51.2 L into the fermenter... which is close enough to my estimated 51L
> *PROBLEM IS MY GRAIN ABSORPTION IS SET TO DEFAULT 1L/kg*
> *Any ideas?*


I also have measured the top marking as 57L so we are in agreement on that. How did you measure you pre-boil volume to come up with the grain absorption? If the mash in volume was 57L then wouldn't that make your grain absorption 7.5L/9.85kg=0.76L/kg, closer to my estimated 0.8L/kg. What was your overall efficiency? I get 72% leaving behind 7L of trub in the BM (I immersion chill and don't get caught up trying to extract every last drop, although there certainly is room for improvement). Are you sure your grain was cracked properly? What was the mash schedule? After sparging I put the mash pipe on the inverted BM lid over a bucket and collect an extra couple of litres during the boil and chuck it back in near the end of the boil.


----------



## wobbly

mckenry said:


> *PROBLEM IS MY GRAIN ABSORPTION IS SET TO DEFAULT 1L/kg*
> *Any ideas?*


Go to TOOLS, OPTIONS, ADVANCED, and you will see on the first box where you can change your grain absorption value

A word of caution just be sure that you input the right value otherwise all of your brews will be out because this value is a global value for all brews not just the current brew. 

You may need to fine tune it with subsequent brews

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## mckenry

Black n Tan said:


> I also have measured the top marking as 57L so we are in agreement on that. How did you measure you pre-boil volume to come up with the grain absorption? If the mash in volume was 57L then wouldn't that make your grain absorption 7.5L/9.85kg=0.76L/kg, closer to my estimated 0.8L/kg. What was your overall efficiency? I get 72% leaving behind 7L of trub in the BM (I immersion chill and don't get caught up trying to extract every last drop, although there certainly is room for improvement). Are you sure your grain was cracked properly? What was the mash schedule? After sparging I put the mash pipe on the inverted BM lid over a bucket and collect an extra couple of litres during the boil and chuck it back in near the end of the boil.


I measured the depth of wort with a ruler as 435mm

I measured today the radius as 221mm

pi *r^2 * 370 gives me 56.8L at the 55L marker. close enough to 57L
pi *r^2 * 435 gives me 66.5L
If I use the formula for my wort volume it is 66.5L preboil
If I use the marker as 55L, then the preboil is 64.5L

Total water using the formula at 57, plus 15L sparge, measured by urn, gives 72L
Total water using the marker at 55 plus 15L sparge, measured by urn, gives 70L

In either case - I only lose 5.5L to 9.85kg grain.
Thats not a problem, but if I sparged with less water I would have got less into the fermenter.
My losses were easily measured and are accurate.
This is where I dont know what to do.


----------



## mckenry

wobbly said:


> Go to TOOLS, OPTIONS, ADVANCED, and you will see on the first box where you can change your grain absorption value
> 
> A word of caution just be sure that you input the right value otherwise all of your brews will be out because this value is a global value for all brews not just the current brew.
> 
> You may need to fine tune it with subsequent brews
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Wobbly


Thanks Wobbly,
This is what I'm asking about grain absorption for. I know I can do that, but I want to be sure I'm right with my figures. Just doesnt make sense that I'm getting less absorption, but still pretty close to 'volume into fermenter' when set to standard 1:1 or some bloody 0.96floz :0.98oz at 2 leagues under the sea with a pound of hogsheads under each furlong or whatever the measurement is.


----------



## mckenry

Maybe it was the speed of the sparge? Too fast and I end up with too much water?
Crack was as per normal on my 3V with was always around 75% eff.


----------



## Black n Tan

mckenry said:


> In either case - I only lose 5.5L to 9.85kg grain.
> Thats not a problem, but if I sparged with less water I would have got less into the fermenter.
> My losses were easily measured and are accurate.
> This is where I dont know what to do.


I am not sure I understand why using the two different methods your grain absorption would be the same, but guess you have given it some thought. I think the best advice I can give you is enter the results (volumes, efficiency, losses etc) you got for your first batch into your brewing program and go from there. If you believe your grain absorption is 0.6L/kg then enter that. What was you efficiency? Most get something in the range of 72-78% brewhouse efficiency. Keep measuring everything and then adjust your settings for the next batch. After a few brews you will settle on some figures that work for you. For me I don't bother measuring volumes so much anymore, I just measure my pre-boil gravity and adjust if necessary (usually only a slight adjustment is needed if anything) and usually this fill my kegs so all is good.


----------



## wobbly

McHenry

Where are you reading this grain absorbption figare? 

Is it on the "Mash Profile" page if so the way to change that to reflect the real world is input the correct value you are experiencing in the grain absorbption value found under the Advanced Tab

Wobbly


----------



## mckenry

wobbly said:


> McHenry
> 
> Where are you reading this grain absorbption figare?
> 
> Is it on the "Mash Profile" page if so the way to change that to reflect the real world is input the correct value you are experiencing in the grain absorbption value found under the Advanced Tab
> 
> Wobbly


Thats the place I'm reading it Wobbly.
Maybe I'm making this too difficult to understand.

Using the default settings I should lose 9.87L as my grain weight is 9.85kg. - thats in the Mash tab. Cant change that.
By default in advanced it is actually imperial but it doesnt matter. 1:1

I'm using 9.85kg grain.
If I go off the marked rod - Mashed with 55L, sparged with 15 (70 total) and still had 64.5L preboil. Thats a loss of only 5.5L/9.85kg

If I go off the calculated volume using V=pir^2 - Mashed with 57L, sparged with 15 (72 total) ans still have preboil 66.5. Still only a loss of 5.5L/9.85kg


----------



## Black n Tan

mckenry said:


> I'm using 9.85kg grain.
> If I go off the marked rod - Mashed with 55L, sparged with 15 (70 total) and still had 64.5L preboil. Thats a loss of only 5.5L/9.85kg
> 
> If I go off the calculated volume using V=pir^2 - Mashed with 57L, sparged with 15 (72 total) ans still have preboil 66.5. Still only a loss of 5.5L/9.85kg


I understand what you mean the the volume difference remains the same whatever method you use. Cant help you with the changes in the grain absorption in promash or whatever program you are using. I think you should be happy getting close to target on your first go and think you will find that things will improve. Still surprised by the grain absorption figure, but see what happens on subsequent brews.


----------



## Cervantes

I have the 20 litre and use a grain absorption value 0.5860 fl oz/oz.

This is the default grain absorption ratio for BIAB and confirmed by Dicko's research. I've never taken accurate measurements to verify it, but it seems to be pretty close for me.


----------



## mckenry

Black n Tan said:


> I understand what you mean the the volume difference remains the same whatever method you use. Cant help you with the changes in the grain absorption in promash or whatever program you are using. I think you should be happy getting close to target on your first go and think you will find that things will improve. Still surprised by the grain absorption figure, but see what happens on subsequent brews


I use beersmith and have done for a long time. Know it well and had about 8 or 9 profiles setup depending on which boiler I used, which mash tun, chill or no chill losses were different etc. I never had to change the grain absorption figure. I've never done BIAB or brau before but I know the BIAB folk get lower grain absorp figures due to squeezing. I thought maybe theres something about a brau that drains after a fullish volume mash that led to lower absorp figures. I'll just keep brewing, keep recording and keep making beer...


----------



## mckenry

Cervantes said:


> I have the 20 litre and use a grain absorption value 0.5860 fl oz/oz.
> 
> This is based on Dicko's research and seems to be pretty close for me.


WHOA ! welcome to the discussion! The same as BIAB for a braumeister?
Thats 1L:1.6kg
I got 1L:1.8kg on my first run....
Nice to hear from you. Could be onto something. Is Dickos research on here or the braumeister forum?


----------



## Cervantes

mckenry said:


> Nice to hear from you. Could be onto something. Is Dickos research on here or the braumeister forum?


It may be in this thread.............

https://forum.braumeisters.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=759

Of course the grain absorption will vary depending on on your crush, the malt type and whether or not you push down on the top plate when draining the malt pipe, and also how patient you are with regard letting every last drop of wort drain out.


----------



## wobbly

Anyone still using the "fabric mesh screens" that were originally supplied with the BM's when they were first available in Australia way back when.

If so are you able to indicate about what size (mesh) the material filter is and is it the same or finer (tighter weave) than the current SS mesh screens.

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## Thefatdoghead

mckenry said:


> Thats the place I'm reading it Wobbly.
> Maybe I'm making this too difficult to understand.
> 
> Using the default settings I should lose 9.87L as my grain weight is 9.85kg. - thats in the Mash tab. Cant change that.
> By default in advanced it is actually imperial but it doesnt matter. 1:1
> 
> I'm using 9.85kg grain.
> If I go off the marked rod - Mashed with 55L, sparged with 15 (70 total) and still had 64.5L preboil. Thats a loss of only 5.5L/9.85kg
> 
> If I go off the calculated volume using V=pir^2 - Mashed with 57L, sparged with 15 (72 total) ans still have preboil 66.5. Still only a loss of 5.5L/9.85kg


What temp did you take the sparge volume at? 80 deg? Is your sparge volume spot on?


----------



## danestead

mckenry said:


> WHOA ! welcome to the discussion! The same as BIAB for a braumeister?
> Thats 1L:1.6kg
> I got 1L:1.8kg on my first run....
> Nice to hear from you. Could be onto something. Is Dickos research on here or the braumeister forum?


I get 0.5L/kg absorption loss which agrees with what you are getting.


----------



## zoigl

I am not at home,in Tassie on holidays. The mesh wraps around the ss seive and that is why I like it.I am not sure about size. I have some coming from Germany, should be here in a few weeks.


----------



## Engibeer

Finally joined the Braumeister club.

Got my 50L BM a couple of weeks ago.

Did my first brew on her last week, DIY DOG #120 Electric India Saison.

(Also got some beef ribs cooking in a 72hr Sous Vide there on the bench  )


----------



## Engibeer

Oh, the Sous Vide doubles as a great sparge water heater BTW


----------



## Goose

mckenry said:


> Thats the place I'm reading it Wobbly.
> Maybe I'm making this too difficult to understand.
> 
> Using the default settings I should lose 9.87L as my grain weight is 9.85kg. - thats in the Mash tab. Cant change that.
> By default in advanced it is actually imperial but it doesnt matter. 1:1
> 
> I'm using 9.85kg grain.
> If I go off the marked rod - Mashed with 55L, sparged with 15 (70 total) and still had 64.5L preboil. Thats a loss of only 5.5L/9.85kg
> 
> If I go off the calculated volume using V=pir^2 - Mashed with 57L, sparged with 15 (72 total) ans still have preboil 66.5. Still only a loss of 5.5L/9.85kg


I agree with grain absorbtion at around 0.6 l/kg of grains.

But I must admit I am a bit concerned about the differences people are coming to for water volume at the 55l mark. maybe every BM build is different I don't know. Admittedly it does not matter if you are tuned to the pre boil SG and post boil SG and volume.

For all other anal (ysts) out there, I weighed in 55l and took a pic with and without the malt pipe in (see below). Maybe German Engineering got it right in my case because I measured the top marking at 55 litres spot on with the malt pipe removed.

I figured important to know the volume with malt pipe _out _for the sparge method, so I can sparge a necessary volume up to preboil target volume.

But for the no sparge method the malt pipe has to be in while the total required water volume is measured. I am trying to be as accurate as possible because a litre or two can make a significant difference if I have to increase the boil time to achieve target pre boil SG. I learned that lesson when I overestimated my grain absorbtion figures on the first run.

So I have now marked the side of the BM tun for my target pre boil volume (in my case 57.1 litres for a target sized batch) which will tell me where to stop sparging. For the no sparge method, volume is grain weight dependent, but I have nontheless marked another line for reference at 63 litres , measured with malt pipe in, for later no sparge trials.





No Malt pipe, 55 litres weighed in






with malt pipe, 55 litres weighed in


----------



## wobbly

On the Braumeister Forum there is a topic "Braumeister 50L Volume Calculator"

Not having a 50lt machine I decided to develop a similar spread sheet for the 20lt Braumeister when using both the 20/10 litre Malt Pipes as detailed in the attachment.

I don't have a 10lt Malt Pipe so the numbers etc have been constructed based on the physical dimensions and knowing some of the limitations with the 20lt malt pipe wrt to amount of grain etc.

The spread sheet has been cross checked with BeerSmith as far as predicted SG for a given Volume into the fermentor (batch Volume) and kg of grain and is within 0.001 so near enough

The purpose of the spread sheet is not to bypass the various development programs which deal with colour, bitterness and flavour but rather provide a quick check to determine if a particular Beer (SG and Volume) can be accommodated/brewed

Dicko has previously posted on brewing "big beers" and this started me thinking.

Once you open the excel file you will need to "Enable Edits" to be able to "Play" with the settings etc.

I welcome feed back on any issues you find

Cheers

Wobbly

Edit Incorrect file attached the first time all good now!!!!! 

View attachment Braumeister 20 10lt malt pipes Volume 1.xlsx


----------



## Coalminer

Need to take into account the different volumes of 50L of water at room temp compared to the volume at 40 C. Maybe the Germans took this into account when they marked the center rods


----------



## Goose

Coalminer said:


> Need to take into account the different volumes of 50L of water at room temp compared to the volume at 40 C. Maybe the Germans took this into account when they marked the center rods


Insofar as rod markings are concerned, the water density difference between a temperature range of 4 and 30 is not so much.

At 4 C, 50 kg of water occupies 50.0 litres, at 30 C it occupies 50.2 litres volume, fwiw.

This does actually get significant at higher temperatures for those calibrating for grain absorbtion figures, ie at 80 deg C, 50kg of water occupies 51.5 litres volume.


----------



## wobbly

Coalminer said:


> Need to take into account the different volumes of 50L of water at room temp compared to the volume at 40 C. Maybe the Germans took this into account when they marked the center rods


The issue with expansion of water can be overstated because if your initial fill is at say 20C and you then chill back to 20C post boil the volume is basically the same (minus grain and hop absorption) other than a very slight increase due to higher density from the sugar content.

The issue with expansion during the mash phase only becomes an issue (about 1.5 litre increase in volume from 20C to 78C) if you are attempting a full volume no sparge mash and your predicted mash volume post dough-in (after accounting for both grain displacement and grain absorption) was close to 39 litres as this could make the total volume 40.5 litres which is very very close to the maximum calculated volume of 41.37lt.

Wobbly


----------



## wobbly

The following was posted on the Braumeister Forum

_"Braumeister recommend for the 10lt malt pipe in a 20lt Braumeister min water 12lts and not more than 14lts, Grain not less than 2.3kg and 3.0kg is OK"_

I won't change the spread sheet at this stage unless some one who uses the 10lt malt pipe can confirm these valves are the min and max and not just the manufacturers conservative advise

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## Coalminer

I have used my 10L pipe twice.
Once with 2.7kg and next with 2.8kg and I reckon I was on the upper limit.
Had to turn the top plate over to give the grain room to move and settle on pump breaks


----------



## razz

One of my favourite parts of brewday. Taking a pic of the kettle as it empties and the cloudy softness of the break appears.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

I got everything setup. Had the 114L ss kettle side by side with the 50L brau.
The goal was to brew 100L of IPA. I used 27kg of malt and ended up with 120L of 1.060 wort. Lost 15L to hops because it was a Meantime IPA and there are megger amounts of hops.
The plan was to use the brau to control a step mash in the ss kettle but i was short on fittings for running 2 pumps so I ended up doing an infusion in the ss and just used the brau as normal. 
If i had of done the usual 50L in the brau and 100 in the kettle I could easily end up with 150L for brew day.
Im stoked with my new upgrade.


----------



## evildrakey

Just picked up a 50L Braumeister (I call her Brunhilda)... Expect loads of daft questions from me


----------



## angus_grant

Expect loads of daft answers. h34r:


----------



## Black Devil Dog

Something I've just started doing after getting the idea from another post somewhere else on this site.

When I'm transferring the wort and it's getting near the elements, I put my malt pipe back in without the rubber gasket. (Cleaned and sanitised)

It works really well at trapping the break material, so that you can draw nearly all the wort out.


----------



## Black Devil Dog

It also helps if you put a block of wood under the back leg.


----------



## Engibeer

Awesome looks like it would work well with a whirlpool too


----------



## Black Devil Dog

Yeah definitely do a whirlpool.


----------



## Black Devil Dog

Did another brew yesterday and used the malt pipe to trap hop and break material.

Normally I use a hop spider, but yesterday I threw the hops straight in.

150grams of hop pellets and the malt pipe stopped pretty much everything except for the liquid, from being transferred.


----------



## Goose

Black Devil Dog said:


> Something I've just started doing after getting the idea from another post somewhere else on this site.
> 
> When I'm transferring the wort and it's getting near the elements, I put my malt pipe back in without the rubber gasket. (Cleaned and sanitised)
> 
> It works really well at trapping the break material, so that you can draw nearly all the wort out.



This is a very good idea.

However I find that the whirlpool I can generate using a large wooden spoon and a silicone glove does a pretty good job of confining the trub in a stable cone at the center, just needs a bit of TLC with the tilt at toward the end to max the volume out.

I hate cleaning and while I think your idea is great there is no way I am cleaning (and sanitising) that malt pipe twice.


----------



## mckenry

mckenry said:


> I measured the depth of wort with a ruler as 435mm
> 
> I measured today the radius as 221mm
> 
> pi *r^2 * 370 gives me 56.8L at the 55L marker. close enough to 57L
> pi *r^2 * 435 gives me 66.5L
> If I use the formula for my wort volume it is 66.5L preboil
> If I use the marker as 55L, then the preboil is 64.5L
> 
> Total water using the formula at 57, plus 15L sparge, measured by urn, gives 72L
> Total water using the marker at 55 plus 15L sparge, measured by urn, gives 70L
> 
> In either case - I only lose 5.5L to 9.85kg grain.
> Thats not a problem, but if I sparged with less water I would have got less into the fermenter.
> My losses were easily measured and are accurate.
> This is where I dont know what to do.


This is something Ive been measuring over and over. Today I weighed my water.
The 55L mark is exactly 55kg of water.
I think its better than trying to measure diameter etc.
For anyone who really care 55kg at 630m ASL @ 15°C
I'm calling it spot on.


----------



## mckenry

And for anyone who is still having grain in the wort, post hoisting the pipe, I bought 250mm of SS braid. After the bottom plate and fine mesh filter goes on, the braid goes over the rod. Grain in, top plates etc. When you lift the malt pipe. the braid acts as a barrier and no grain can 'collapse' in on itself.
Works a treat.


----------



## mckenry

This will show it better. Braid sits over the sleeve of the large filter plate, after you've placed the fine mesh on. Braid squashes down and creates a perfect barrier/tunnel once the malt pipe has been lifted. If youre a sparger, this stops any grain collapsing into the void created by the rod.
Crystal clear wort.

These photos are on their side, but its easy to understand.


----------



## ibu

Good idea! I've been using some rubber around the edge of the bottom mesh which helped but hasn't stopped all the grain getting into the wort.
This may help further with that and also aid with sparging as you said. Well done; thanks for putting it up.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Something I have been thinking about with the 20 litre is an extended malt pipe, I bought a second seal and use that on the top and did away with the factory fitted perf plate and mesh made my own mesh and plate to fit on the top. The pressure from the pump could lift the first p/ plate I made, about 1mm thk, so the pump can get a fair amount of pressure up ended up with 2 mm p/plate.
So now I have 2 pieces of s/s tube same dia as the malt pipe but longer (will only need one but they were free) so my thought is put a stud box on the connecting rod and fit maybe a 25 cm stud to lengthen the connecting rod, I can easily cobble up a filter plate and mesh top and bottom, before I get to work on this anyone see any problems?


----------



## Dan Pratt

If your chasing higher gravity without double mashing it sound like a good option.

Pics of the malt pipe add on?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

That's what I was thinking about, not often I do a reiterated mash but it would be easier to do a higher gravity beer in one go, the pump can manage it and as it is a mag drive wouldn't do any damage if it couldn't.
The tubes I got are the burned out outer shell's of the opposition.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

So today I tried the new maltpipe but it was just a tab to big, made the stud box, shortened the malt pipe to 220 mm (not the original) made a fine mesh and a thick perf plate and all ready to go will give it a try on Wednesday when the kids go back to school.



Could probably have made it shorter.



When I give it a try on Wednesday will be just doing a regular grain bill just in case the pump can't handle it, will be no trouble to dismantle and carry on.


----------



## Dan Pratt

What will be your starting volume of water?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Started with 25 litres of water and a 5.25 kg grain bill, before I started I shortened the malt pipe extension to 170 mm but the poor little pump struggled to get the head needed to push the wort through the sieve. 
Interestingly G&G have a demo with the 20L Braumeister this weekend with a false bottom on the top of the malt pipe, that was my first and only modification I did years ago.


----------



## BKBrews

OK I'm brewing on a BM 50L this weekend, with a mate. a few questions:

where do we find the water calculators? Searched everywhere.

And anyone using beersmith have comments on the braumeister profile?


----------



## Brew Matt

BKBrews said:


> OK I'm brewing on a BM 50L this weekend, with a mate. a few questions:
> 
> where do we find the water calculators? Searched everywhere.
> 
> And anyone using beersmith have comments on the braumeister profile?


When you say water calculators, do you mean to work out the volume of water to use in the Braumeister? Are you using the full or short malt pipe?


----------



## BKBrews

Brew Matt said:


> When you say water calculators, do you mean to work out the volume of water to use in the Braumeister? Are you using the full or short malt pipe?


Yes. We want to know the total mash water required + sparge water. My mate seems to think its 55L mash water + 1L per kg of grain for the sparge. I am assuming it's the full malt pipe. We're going to brew an NEIPA with roughly 11-12kg of malt.


----------



## Midnight Brew

Total mash water required = batch vol + loss to kettle + boil off + loss to grain absorption (I use this figure as my sparge)

so say you want 50L
you lose 3-5L in the kettle but lets go with 3 because we all know how to tilt a kettle
60min boil = 5L boil off
I find I lose about 600ml wort to each kg grain. So 12kg of malt * 0.6L= 7.2L

50+3+5+7.2= 65.2ish L

I actually sparge half the grain absorption figure. Just to 'rinse' through the sugars and I find its sufficient. I would almost argue to full volume mash and forget the sparge all together but that has been covered elsewhere.

How I like to do it is fill the BM up to set water amount. Drain off until you hit 55L marked on the centre rod. Mash in, put on the mesh filter and flasie, add the remaining water back in except for your sparge figure. Have a beer.


----------



## Crusty

Midnight Brew said:


> Total mash water required = batch vol + loss to kettle + boil off + loss to grain absorption (I use this figure as my sparge)
> 
> so say you want 50L
> you lose 3-5L in the kettle but lets go with 3 because we all know how to tilt a kettle
> 60min boil = 5L boil off
> I find I lose about 600ml wort to each kg grain. So 12kg of malt * 0.6L= 7.2L
> 
> 50+3+5+7.2= 65.2ish L
> 
> I actually sparge half the grain absorption figure. Just to 'rinse' through the sugars and I find its sufficient. I would almost argue to full volume mash and forget the sparge all together but that has been covered elsewhere.
> 
> How I like to do it is fill the BM up to set water amount. Drain off until you hit 55L marked on the centre rod. Mash in, put on the mesh filter and flasie, add the remaining water back in except for your sparge figure. Have a beer.


Cheers for this bit of info.
I've been having some dramas with final volumes & lower than expected gravities for a while with BeerSmith so I followed your calculation. BeerSmith was telling me to sparge with 3 more litres than this calculation. I overshot my gravity but my volume was bang on. So, the final piece of the puzzle is to up my BH efficiency to bring the OG back down to what I was aiming for.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

I brewed a Helles yesterday on the 50 litre brau but did it a little different. I dont know if its anything new or if anyone has tried it but I had great results so I thought I would share.

Basically all i did different was, i filled the braumeister up to 69L to begin. I mashed in. The water was about 20mm below the top of the malt pipe once i had 9.5kg of grain mashed in. 
I then went about brew schedule as normal except for sparge.
I didnt sparge at all as I had 60 litres after pulling the malt pipe. Boiled for 1.5 hours and ended up with 49 litres (roughly minus trub) of 1.048 wort. Still maintaining my usual 80% efficiency.
The whole point was to get around having to sparge but still maintaining the same efficiency and it looks like its worked. 
Ill now try an ipa or something with a higher gravity and more malt to se if this method will still work.

Happy brewing


----------



## mckenry

Gav80 said:


> I brewed a Helles yesterday on the 50 litre brau but did it a little different. I dont know if its anything new or if anyone has tried it but I had great results so I thought I would share.
> 
> Basically all i did different was, i filled the braumeister up to 69L to begin. I mashed in. The water was about 20mm below the top of the malt pipe once i had 9.5kg of grain mashed in.
> I then went about brew schedule as normal except for sparge.
> I didnt sparge at all as I had 60 litres after pulling the malt pipe. Boiled for 1.5 hours and ended up with 49 litres (roughly minus trub) of 1.048 wort. Still maintaining my usual 80% efficiency.
> The whole point was to get around having to sparge but still maintaining the same efficiency and it looks like its worked.
> Ill now try an ipa or something with a higher gravity and more malt to se if this method will still work.
> 
> Happy brewing


These numbers mean (by my cals) that you should have flooded the malt pipe. The spreadsheet that I have says that if using 9.5kg the max water for strike is 61.9L.
Did you flood the pipe, no sparge and still get 80% eff?

I'm always interested in the methods people use that get 80% and above. My method only gets 62% BH eff (68% mash eff) - but every time. I'm happy with consistency. The actual cost of grain to go from 62-80 is SFA anyway.
My method is what sounds like you just did, bar removing some strike water (see below) so wondering how you got 80% with no sparge.

I use the spreadsheet to get my volumes for strike v grain quantity, but normally I'm around;
10kg grain, so that means:
61.5L strike water to temp
Remove about 6L to get back to roughly 55L on the rod
mash into 55L, plates on etc, then return the 6L and that wont overflow the pipe.
75 min boil
No sparge
Hoist and let drain.
68% mash eff - 62% BH eff after losses.
Yeah, I used to get more by sparging, but why do I have a single vessel for >$3k and then need an urn...?
But 80% with no sparge? I'm keen....

I use a mashmaster mini mill with the fluted rollers set at 1.2mm
For those playing at home I adjust my town supply with Ca and Mg to achieve a mash pH around 5.2-5.4

Still, I'm very interested to know how you mashed into 69L water with 9.5kg grain and had 20mm below the overflow?


----------



## Black Devil Dog

Pretty much the same as my method and I usually get around 80% Mash eff, 75% BH eff.

My strike vol is in the vicinity of 65 litres and I always drain off 5 litres before I mash in. I tip that back in after I've secured the malt pipe.

If I didn't drain it off, the water would be overflowing the malt pipe after the grain is added. 

Did an IPA yesterday that had 10.47 kg of grain + 100g of rice hulls and 65.5 litres strike water.

Started using a small amount of rice hulls recently to see if I get a better flow through the mash. Probably does SFA.

Mash in at 40 raise to 64, 60 minute rest @ 64 - 20 minute rest @ 72 - mash out 78 for about 20 minutes.

No sparge.

90 minute boil.

Aim for 48 litres into cubes.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

mckenry said:


> These numbers mean (by my cals) that you should have flooded the malt pipe. The spreadsheet that I have says that if using 9.5kg the max water for strike is 61.9L.
> Did you flood the pipe, no sparge and still get 80% eff?
> 
> I'm always interested in the methods people use that get 80% and above. My method only gets 62% BH eff (68% mash eff) - but every time. I'm happy with consistency. The actual cost of grain to go from 62-80 is SFA anyway.
> My method is what sounds like you just did, bar removing some strike water (see below) so wondering how you got 80% with no sparge.
> 
> I use the spreadsheet to get my volumes for strike v grain quantity, but normally I'm around;
> 10kg grain, so that means:
> 61.5L strike water to temp
> Remove about 6L to get back to roughly 55L on the rod
> mash into 55L, plates on etc, then return the 6L and that wont overflow the pipe.
> 75 min boil
> No sparge
> Hoist and let drain.
> 68% mash eff - 62% BH eff after losses.
> Yeah, I used to get more by sparging, but why do I have a single vessel for >$3k and then need an urn...?
> But 80% with no sparge? I'm keen....
> 
> I use a mashmaster mini mill with the fluted rollers set at 1.2mm
> For those playing at home I adjust my town supply with Ca and Mg to achieve a mash pH around 5.2-5.4
> 
> Still, I'm very interested to know how you mashed into 69L water with 9.5kg grain and had 20mm below the overflow?


Yes you are corect, I fucked the volume up in my last post. I dont know how I missed it.
What I did was go 60mm above the top mark on the rod which should be close enough to 65 litres. That last post was my mistake as I always think the top mark is 60L. Sorry about that. So i was 5litres down and that explains why i had to squash the last cube.
I used 9.5kg of grain milled on a 3 roller crankenstein with a 1mm gap. I used lactic acid and calc chloride and sulfate for a mash ph of 5.1.
The malt pipe was not flooded and at this volume I could have got another 2kg of grain in I would assume. Before it was an issue.
I was brewing a Helles so my mash schedule was
10min @ 52
70min @ 62
30min @ 68
15min @ 78 mashout

In my experience the only time i suffer from low efficiency under 80% is when I dont have enough time mashing at amylase rest. I try give at least 30min at the higher end of 60 deg and also a good 15 to 20 for a mashout.
Or if I start using more than 11kg of grain in the pipe
Or if my mash ph is up to shit ie above 5.3, 5.4.

Or if I had not sparged. This is why I wanted to see if I could get the full volume without sparging and maintain efficiency. 

To point out my mistake from earlier my efficiency will be lower than 80% becuse I ended up with less than the 50 litres I was going for. 
Im new to beersmith and cant work out what my actual efficiency is after realising the **** up.
Anyway 45litres (roughly, dont know exact cos I cubed into 2 different size cubes and forgot to check volume on rod before i transfered) is what I had at 1.048 with 9.5kg of malt with a 1.5 hour boil and assuming 1 litre per kg of grain absorption. 7.5 litre an hour boil off

Im still happy with this no sparge result because i only care that the efficiency stayes the same and 45 litres of 1.048 wort off 9.5kg of grain is good enough for me whithout sparging. 
I dont know if that helps make it clearer and thanks for picking up my volume mistake mckenry.

Cheers


----------



## mckenry

My stubbornness to no-flood, no-sparge is waning. Today I made an ESB, hit all my expected numbers. This time though I hung onto the malt pipe and collected the remaining runnings. A couple of litres at 1.045. A real shame.
I could add that back to the boil and increase eff, but...
What is annoying me more is the output, without flooding the pipe. The bigger the grain bill the lower the volume. Had to knock it back to 43L in a 50L brau...
So, I am going back to sparging, to at least hit 50L after losses including fermenter loss.
I'll see where I can get to. Currently running 62% BH eff. Every single time which is nice.


Edit - forgot to ask my question.
What are the rusted-on brau fans sparging with these days?
I know G&G go 2.5L/kg - I dont even think that is possible on the small units i.e. Not enough strike water.

So, 1L/kg, 2L/kg (I think this is possible) something in between?
Fixed amount and work backwards?
Max strike water, then whatever it takes to reach pre-boil?
Min strike water then as above?


----------



## razz

Fixed amount and work backwards mchenry. Dough in is always 55lts. I always work to end up with 45lts post boil so when I spare I just do enough to get the kettle to 55lts, sometimes that is 8 lts, sometimes it 5 lts. The only thing that really varies is the amount of grain so the sparge has to change with it also. My efficiency generally stays about 75% if I slowly raise the malt pipe over about 15 mins. If I pull it out quickly the sparge water doesn't seem to stay in the grain as long.


----------



## Coalminer

Can't comment on the 50L but with my 20L my usual volumes are 26L mash and 6-7L sparge (depending on amount of loss to grain)
usually gives me 30-31L boil and final vol of about 25L. Never under 80% BHE


----------



## Crusty

I was having a load of dramas with volumes & poor efficiency until Midnight Brew steered me on the right path.
To work out your total water needed, you have to previously work out your losses to trub/kettle & your boil off.
For me, that is 4L to trub & 4L to boil off. Then you need to work out your loss to grain absorption. Mine is pretty much 0.6L/Kg.
The water required for grain absorption is your grain amount x 0.6.
So, If I want 20L into my fermenter, this is what you do.
20 + 4 + 4 + 5.2kg grain x 0.6 = 3.12L = 31.12L total water required.
I mash in with 27L water so 31.12L - 27L = 4.12L sparge water.
Numbers have been spot on for me regardless of the sparge calculated by BeerSmith.


----------



## mckenry

Thanks Crusty,
Yeah, all my numbers are dialled in. I hit them bang on every time. Just at 62% BH eff. After collecting a few litres !! of 1.045, I have decided to go back to sparging.
These are the things I have to weigh up.
I want 50L into the fermenter.
1. Do I do my regular mash-in volume then sparge to preboil, which in your case would be 58L
2. Do I choose a 1.5L/kg for a 'good' sparge, then work out my volumes backwards
3. Do I mash-in with 55L regardless of grain bill then sparge with whatever it takes etc etc.
The numbers dont bother me. Just wondering if there is a magic number for a proper rinse, (max extraction) without doing the 1.010 runnings test.


----------



## Crusty

mckenry said:


> Thanks Crusty,
> Yeah, all my numbers are dialled in. I hit them bang on every time. Just at 62% BH eff. After collecting a few litres !! of 1.045, I have decided to go back to sparging.
> These are the things I have to weigh up.
> I want 50L into the fermenter.
> 1. Do I do my regular mash-in volume then sparge to preboil, which in your case would be 58L
> 2. Do I choose a 1.5L/kg for a 'good' sparge, then work out my volumes backwards
> 3. Do I mash-in with 55L regardless of grain bill then sparge with whatever it takes etc etc.
> The numbers dont bother me. Just wondering if there is a magic number for a proper rinse, (max extraction) without doing the 1.010 runnings test.


No: 3 for sure.
The only variable every brew will be your sparge volume which will be dependent on your grain bill.
Your mash in, trub loss & boil off will be the same every time.
I like a higher water to grain ratio & a smaller sparge volume. No real science, just personal preference with the BM.
My last 50L batch went like this.
50 + 4 + 4 + ( 10.17kg grain x 0.6 ) = 6.10 = 64.10L total water needed.
64.10L - mash in volume ( 55L ) = 9.1L sparge.
If I stick with the numbers predicted by BeerSmith, I end up with more volume & I miss my target gravity. No matter what I change in the equipment setup, it still happens. This seems to be a common problem with single vessel systems & I'm not too sure Brad knows how to fix his calculations. The software is great & I use it all the time but I use the above formula for my water requirements & my numbers & gravity are bang on.


----------



## brianman

Crusty said:


> No: 3 for sure.
> The only variable every brew will be your sparge volume which will be dependent on your grain bill.
> Your mash in, trub loss & boil off will be the same every time.
> I like a higher water to grain ratio & a smaller sparge volume. No real science, just personal preference with the BM.
> My last 50L batch went like this.
> 50 + 4 + 4 + ( 10.17kg grain x 0.6 ) = 6.10 = 64.10L total water needed.
> 64.10L - mash in volume ( 55L ) = 9.1L sparge


With ya on that Crusty, i currently mash in ~5kg with 24lts, sparge with 2x4.5lts, (5 mins in between)~30lts boil, ~24.5-25lts in fermenter. Next brew , this week, will mash in with 27lts & sparge with 6lts, should be a good comparison, generally attain 76-78% BH efficiency.


----------



## Crusty

briby said:


> With ya on that Crusty, i currently mash in ~5kg with 24lts, sparge with 2x4.5lts, (5 mins in between)~30lts boil, ~24.5-25lts in fermenter. Next brew , this week, will mash in with 27lts & sparge with 6lts, should be a good comparison, generally attain 76-78% BH efficiency.


Same here for efficiency, 76%.


----------



## brianman

Crusty said:


> Same here for efficiency, 76%.


If i can lift efficiency a tad would be good, output limited by 30lt fermenters, 25lts is enough, don't want to be cleaning out the ferment fridge every brew. Some times 25 is too much depending on yeast.


----------



## brianman

Crusty said:


> Same here for efficiency, 76%.


Funny, i used to mash in 23lts and dump sparge 10lts and get over 80%, but lifting hot water the height i needed to, something had to change, so now use a little brown pump with the 2 x 4.5, found a rest in between helps.


----------



## mckenry

OK cool. I use a spreadsheet called DBC Braumeister volumes...Think I got it from here. Its bang on with relation to grain v max or min mash in to avoid flooding the pipe. The main thing I want to do, is capture all the sugars possible from my sparge. From some other forums (fora?) it seems a bigger sparge, smaller mash seems to get the highest O.G.
I think I have some testing to do.
Will start with the 55L mash in.
Strange crusty, that you cant get the numbers right. Mine are always bang on. 
I have 3.8L loss to trub and chiller plus 6L to evap and 2L to cooling for a 45L batch. evap = 75min boil for everything so I dont use hourly rate.
My grain absorption is set to 0.586, which is the default for BIAB and its bang on. But, this is before sparging, so that may or may not change.


----------



## mckenry

Update on achieving better efficiency.
Mashed 11.6kg in 50L. Sparged with 24L
From reading I decided to sparge with about 2L/kg. 50L mashin is a nice easy number and its marked and it allows 2L/kg sparge.
With 24L sparge the runnings went down to 1.030 - still pretty high compared to my old 3V.
My mash eff jumped from 68% without sparging to 80% with this sparge.
BH eff jumped from 62% to 75%
There is still quite a lot of sugar left in the grain at 1.030. The pump seemed to be ok, with a mash thickess of 4.3L/kg.
Maybe I'll go less mashin next time, more sparge? The calculator says I could go as low as 41L (3.5L/kg) mashin, which would therefore be a 33L sparge. Might get the eff up over 80%. Not that that is the be all and end all. 
Thoughts?


----------



## Black n Tan

Sound like you are going in the right direction and that is a great improvement. My recollection is G&G do 2.5L/kg sparge for pale beers and 3L/kg for darker beers. I remember they mentioned to me that they have found leaving a delay before the final spare increases their efficiency a few points. So go for it and just monitor the sparge runnings gravity and ph to make sure you won't extract too many tannins.


----------



## wobbly

I'm sure it has been raised/discussed before but for the life of me I can't seem to find it!!!

What is the minimum amount (vol/kg) of grain that can be mashed in a 20lt Brau without experiencing the dreaded wort fountain issue

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## wide eyed and legless

It's about 6kg wobbly but I made a top screen for mine to fit over the very top of the malt pipe a few years ago, Grain and Grape recently discovered putting a screen on the top increases the grain bill to 7.5 kg.



https://www.facebook.com/melbrau/posts/1768221540166578


----------



## wobbly

Thanks for that but the figure I am after is:-

What is the *"Minimum" *(not the maximum) amount (kg's) of grain you can mash with, without experiencing "Wort Fountains" 

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Can't say I have ever read of a discussion on a minimum  amount of grain for a 20 litre BM,is there a 10 litre malt pipe for the 20 litre BM?


----------



## wobbly

I seem to recall either on this site or the Braumeister forum site that it was something like 3.0 or 3.5kgs.

I am just after some clarification as I'm going to try and brew a Sierra Nevada Torpedo targeting 24lts into "my fermenter thingy!!" and my current plans are to do a double mash of something around 3.5 kgs of grain for each half but want to make sure before I do it that I wont end up with the dreaded "wort fountains" but I'm open to suggestion's on how to achieve the target 1065OG without trying to mash with somewhere around the 7+kgs of grain in a single mash

I know I could cheat and just add some DME to the boil to get to the target OG but that's not why I purchased the Brau!!!

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## razz

wide eyed and legless said:


> It's about 6kg wobbly but I made a top screen for mine to fit over the very top of the malt pipe a few years ago, Grain and Grape recently discovered putting a screen on the top increases the grain bill to 7.5 kg.
> View attachment 106847
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/melbrau/posts/1768221540166578



I take it WEAL that would be the same as using the original screen but placed upside down?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Razz I did do that initially but then cut a new screen that went completely over the top with an extra bottom seal sitting on the top rim.

Wobbly starting to recall Dicko doing some bigger beers, pretty sure they were on here and the Braumeister site, lookup 'reiterated mash' that should help you.


----------



## razz

wide eyed and legless said:


> Razz I did do that initially but then cut a new screen that went completely over the top with an extra bottom seal sitting on the top rim.
> 
> Wobbly starting to recall Dicko doing some bigger beers, pretty sure they were on here and the Braumeister site, lookup 'reiterated mash' that should help you.



Yes thanks, I have read about re-iterated mashing. I didn't know that a bottom seal would fit on the top, thanks.


----------



## wobbly

This is an interesting article on the subject of "reiterated mashing" https://byo.com/bock/item/1317-reiterated-mashing-multiple-mashes-for-massive-brews and makes interesting reading however my original question/inquiry remains unanswered on this site and the Braumeister site and that is can anyone advise me what the minimum amount of grain you can mash in a 20lt Brau without experiencing the "dreaded wort fountains" 

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Well the only time I have had a fountain is when I have adjuncts in the mix, I have never had a fountain just using malted barley,
as for the least amount of grain you would have to work back from the least amount of water, which would be around the 20 litre mark. What is it you are wanting to do?


----------



## Coalminer

Wobbly,
I done 2 mashes today in a 20L BM both 3.05kg with no problems


----------



## GoodDuck

Another method G&G have experimented with (not sure if this is what WEAL was referring to) is using a false bottom (dome side up) as the top screen - I have used this method successfully myself, but I was fortunate to have a false bottom handy.
Depending on what equipment you have handy, you can also used the upside down top screen method to get 7Kg in (a very tight squeeze).
Something that I found helpful was to heat your strike water in another urn (I also had 30L urn handy), then mix your grain in the urn before you transfer to the BM.
This accomplishes 2 things:
1. It is easier to mix this amount of grain in a 30L urn than in the malt pipe.
2. it washes some of the sugars from the grain, so the grain is less demanding of malt pipe space.


----------



## Black n Tan

Coalminer said:


> Wobbly,
> I done 2 mashes today in a 20L BM both 3.05kg with no problems


It has been sometime for me, but my recollection is 3kg is no problem.


wobbly said:


> I seem to recall either on this site or the Braumeister forum site that it was something like 3.0 or 3.5kgs.
> 
> my current plans are to do a double mash of something around 3.5 kgs of grain for each half but want to make sure before I do it that I wont end up with the dreaded "wort fountains"


 
So 3.5kg should not be a problem but it probably depends on how you mill your grain. If I was to experience a wort fountain, I would just turn down the pump: I have Laing pumps and they are set at the maximum (7) so I would just dial it down. I think the alternative BM pump, Lowepro??, would be similar.


----------



## wobbly

[QUOTE=" What is it you are wanting to do?[/QUOTE]

What I plan on doing/brewing is something like a Sierra Nevada Torpedo and want 24/25lts into "my fermenting vessel" with an OG of around 1065. Now I understand that around 7kgs of grain will get me close but efficiency becomes an issue. As you increase grain vol/kg much over 6kgs efficiency drops requiring an increase in grain and so you chase your tail to the point that you can't get the required grain into the malt pipe.
Sure I can reduce the target vol into "my fermenting vessel" however that is defeating the purpose of what I want to do which is bottle around 22/23lts of finished beer from a single brew/mash/ferment
Where as if I can do a reticulated mash with about 3.5kgs of grain in each mash half I shouldn't loose out on efficiency and based on Coalminers post above it should all work out fine

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I think I bought my 20L BM about 2010, at the time I wondered why Mr Speidel had fitted a more expensive custom valve to it instead of a bog standard ball valve. I never changed it so every now and again I still have puzzled over it until now, since I have been playing around with the lauter helix I did wonder why the BM worked better with the helix than the Guten.
The simple answer was the 8mm orifice on the BM valve and the slower drainage was to leave most of the trub in the kettle, so simple when one realises. With the Guten I now only open the valve 1/2 way and it works much better, so those who have bought the lauter helix and have replaced the original valve have a play around with how far to open up the valve.


----------

