# Pirate Life sells to AB InBev



## earle (30/11/17)

https://www.brewsnews.com.au/2017/11/30/pirate-life-sells-ab-inbev/


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## Bribie G (30/11/17)

Jan Craps, President of AB InBev’s Asia Pacific South Zone.

What an appropriate name.


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## barls (30/11/17)

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.


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## Mardoo (30/11/17)

Wow, really? Well slap this baby’s ass and set me loose in the woods. Having seen them speak a few times, I’d say this was part of their business plan from the start. They made all the right moves, very efficiently and quickly. That, and their prior experience.


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## Coodgee (30/11/17)

such a gold rush at the moment isn't it. I can understand why people want to get into pro brewing. Seems like the most important thing is a really colourful can.


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## wynnum1 (30/11/17)

NSW's controversial "cash-for-cans" is going to cut into profits of small operators administration costs.


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## pcmfisher (30/11/17)

wynnum1 said:


> NSW's controversial "cash-for-cans" is going to cut into profits of small operators administration costs.


Controversial? What a similar little recycling scheme to what we have had in SA for the last 40 odd years. 
We don't do much right in SA but we got this one right.

How will it affect administration costs of small operators?


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## wynnum1 (30/11/17)

pcmfisher said:


> Controversial? What a similar little recycling scheme to what we have had in SA for the last 40 odd years.
> We don't do much right in SA but we got this one right.
> 
> How will it affect administration costs of small operators?


Run by those who did not want Coca-Cola Amatil and Woolworth going to cost small operators a fortune Woolworth get 3 cents a container to collect.


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## pcmfisher (30/11/17)

wynnum1 said:


> Run by those who did not want Coca-Cola Amatil and Woolworth going to cost small operators a fortune Woolworth get 3 cents a container to collect.


Sorry, I assumed it would be the same as ours.

We just take all our cans and bottles back to depots by the bag fulls and get 10c each. No cans on the streets here.


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## lost at sea (30/11/17)

booo-urns


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## SeeFar (30/11/17)

Coodgee said:


> such a gold rush at the moment isn't it. I can understand why people want to get into pro brewing. Seems like the most important thing is a really colourful can.



Yep, it's why I've gotten into home brewing myself. I have a plan to become a commercial craft brewer and sell to a big company one day. 

It's a pretty straight forward plan: start off making extract brews until I can do it pretty well, move to full mash and practice practice practice. Then sit back and watch the business cycle that will see the big companies buy up the good craft brewers and put the majority of the smaller independent guys out of business. That's when the cycle will flip and only big commercial brews will be around and the market will then open up to the small guy again, which should be around the same time that I've been brewing long enough that I die of old age, regret and a shot liver. I have it all written out in a proper business plan but that's the gist of it.


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## wynnum1 (30/11/17)

pcmfisher said:


> Sorry, I assumed it would be the same as ours.
> 
> We just take all our cans and bottles back to depots by the bag fulls and get 10c each. No cans on the streets here.


Reverse vending machines pay pal deposit and Woolworth vouchers or give money to charity and all is carted to Sydney by Cleanaway waste. What is the extra cost per container in SA


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## Pnutapper (30/11/17)

I’ve been informed by CUB sales reps they won’t be playing with recipes*. They are keen to expand naturally but will work with other breweries to assist with capacity issues in current format. Cascade is one brewery they’ve already earmarked for this. 

*No, I don't believe this for a second.


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## eldertaco (30/11/17)

Good on them, amazing effort in a pretty short time. Would be good if it meant it got cheaper but I very much doubt that.


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## Coodgee (30/11/17)

Pnutapper said:


> I’ve been informed by CUB sales reps they won’t be playing with recipes*. They are keen to expand naturally but will work with other breweries to assist with capacity issues in current format. Cascade is one brewery they’ve already earmarked for this.
> 
> *No, I don't believe this for a second.



citra, mosaic... it's all just as good as galaxy right? 

actually I just had a look on their website and they don't seem to currently use any galaxy at all. Interesting decision seeing how cheap it is in oz.


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## contrarian (30/11/17)

pcmfisher said:


> Controversial? What a similar little recycling scheme to what we have had in SA for the last 40 odd years.
> We don't do much right in SA but we got this one right.
> 
> How will it affect administration costs of small operators?



The scheme has a disproportional impact on small operators who have multiple limited release beers across a year as each label has to be registered at a cost to the brewery. They also need to pay upfront for their anticipated sales and I believe this is at a rate of 15c per bottle/can. This will be passed on to consumers but the nature of the payment in advance will impact cash flow.

As usual the wine industry is exempt from all of this. Most of the consultation was with big players, small business wasn't even at the table.


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## Droopy Brew (30/11/17)

What it will mean is more of this good gear on tap. Pretty clear strategy from the big boys:
1- pick out some of the best craft breweries in Australia with a good brand, let them continue to do what makes them popular (ie. brew good beer)
2- use their massive marketing reach to push these already well loved beers into as many pubs and taps as they can
3- make it very difficult for the smaller breweries to get tap space.

They would be mad to try and change the product they have bought . If they do that they devalue the very thing they paid oodles of $s for as the clientele for these beers are more educated than your average Great Northern drinker. They drink this beer, and pay the higher price tag because they like it- not because of some bullshit marketing ploy that drinking it will make you a true North QLDer or some such shit. If they try to change the product to make bigger margins, their main clientele will pick up on the change and move onto something else.


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## contrarian (30/11/17)

It's pretty naive to think they won't try to drive production costs down. There really aren't any breweries that have been taken over without some impact on the quality of the product they deliver. Big breweries are trying to buy back market share they are losing to craft beer.


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## Schikitar (30/11/17)

They are dead to me.


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## husky (30/11/17)

Mother fuc#ers


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## wynnum1 (30/11/17)

If they make the changes slowly who is going to notice.


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## Droopy Brew (30/11/17)

contrarian said:


> It's pretty naive to think they won't try to drive production costs down. There really aren't any breweries that have been taken over without some impact on the quality of the product they deliver. Big breweries are trying to buy back market share they are losing to craft beer.



Oh they will get production costs down, I never said otherwise. Its a volume game, if they triple the output costs will come down. The international bulk buying power of AB will also bring ingredient costs down. They are up scaling which produces efficiencies.
If they do **** with the recipes/ingredients too much, their customers will revert back to other smaller breweries and I'm pretty sure they know that.

They want to buy into the market but they wont want to splash money around only to see their market share revert back to other craft beers because they turned a good product to shit.


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## eldertaco (30/11/17)

I wonder how many will stop purchasing them because they don't want to support AB InBev though? Probably more than a few but less than a lot I suppose.


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## contrarian (30/11/17)

Droopy Brew said:


> Oh they will get production costs down, I never said otherwise. Its a volume game, if they triple the output costs will come down. The international bulk buying power of AB will also bring ingredient costs down. They are up scaling which produces efficiencies.
> If they do **** with the recipes/ingredients too much, their customers will revert back to other smaller breweries and I'm pretty sure they know that.
> 
> They want to buy into the market but they wont want to splash money around only to see their market share revert back to other craft beers because they turned a good product to shit.



There's no doubt that there's efficiency in scale but to assume that recipe integrity will be maintained doesn't seem to fit what has happened to other beers that have gone down the same road.


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## GalBrew (30/11/17)

I seriously don’t know why everyone gets so worked up about this kind of thing. Good on PL for cashing in, may they enjoy the rest of their days on their yacht or mansion or whatever. If you are not down with their new corporate overlords then stop buying their beer. If you are fine then carry on, the beer won’t change one bit and anyone who says otherwise is indulging in some serious confirmation bias.


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## manticle (30/11/17)

eldertaco said:


> I wonder how many will stop purchasing them because they don't want to support AB InBev though? Probably more than a few but less than a lot I suppose.




No more than I'd stop buying Leffe, Hoegaarden or negra modelo


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## contrarian (30/11/17)

I don’t think anyone has anything against brewers cashing in on the successful business they have built. I’ve told my local brewer that if he gets a big money offer he would be off his head not to take it! From a business perspective it is a smart decision and the right fit decision. 

The other side of it that a lot of home brewers like to support breweries that are small and independent and have complete control of their creative process. They also tend to be educated about affiliations. 

To the average consumer they wouldn’t notice a difference but they also wouldn’t have any idea about how many brands that market themselves as craft beer are owned by the same 2 companies!

I don’t buy a lot of beer but when I do I like to support local independent breweries over the mega breweries and their subsidiaries.


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## Dan Pratt (30/11/17)

well to PL credit they have kicked arse on the craft beer scene in Australia and have a business that shows solid value in being purchased. 

I really liked there beers too, emphasis on the liked.


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## Elz (30/11/17)

Dan Pratt said:


> well to PL credit they have kicked arse on the craft beer scene in Australia and have a business that shows solid value in being purchased.
> 
> I really liked there beers too, emphasis on the liked.


yeah, agree that their beer kicked arse and it was my favourite beer, the double ipa that is. But alas, I do like to support independent brewers so no more PL for me unfortunately. Good on them, but I’ll have to find a new favourite. Anyone know where they sell slabs of Bridge Road Bling Bling in the north Melbourne area by chance?
Cheers, Elz


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## husky (30/11/17)

Elz said:


> yeah, agree that their beer kicked arse and it was my favourite beer, the double ipa that is. But alas, I do like to support independent brewers so no more PL for me unfortunately. Good on them, but I’ll have to find a new favourite. Anyone know where they sell slabs of Bridge Road Bling Bling in the north Melbourne area by chance?
> Cheers, Elz



I just ordered some direct from the brewery $110/slab + $10 shipping. Site says out of stock but if you're a member email them and they send you one, was my old fav then swung to PL IIPA but now back to Bling Bling!
I don't think anyone is getting worked up @GalBrew . It's more disappointment I can't buy them anymore because call me stupid but my idea of craft beer is supporting a small independent operation where my cash goes into the pockets of someone who is in the business because of a passion and not the pockets of some OS shareholder who is in the game purely to make money. Craft breweries don't pop up out of a desire to make boat loads of cash(mostly) but rather to pursue a passion knowing there aren't big $$ in it. I respect and want to support that as do many others.
Credit to them, great beer. If it was shit beer no one would care.


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## Elz (30/11/17)

husky said:


> I just ordered some direct from the brewery $110/slab + $10 shipping. Site says out of stock but if you're a member email them and they send you one, was my old fav then swung to PL IIPA but now back to Bling Bling!
> I don't think anyone is getting worked up @GalBrew . It's more disappointment I can't buy them anymore because call me stupid but my idea of craft beer is supporting a small independent operation where my cash goes into the pockets of someone who is in the business because of a passion and not the pockets of some OS shareholder who is in the game purely to make money. Craft breweries don't pup up out of a desire to make boat loads of cash(mostly) but rather to pursue a passion knowing there aren't big $$ in it. I respect and want to support that as do many others.
> Credit to them, great beer. If it was shit beer no one would care.


Thanks for the heads up. I’ll now have to become a member. Not a bad price either.
Cheers 
Elz


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## GalBrew (30/11/17)

husky said:


> I just ordered some direct from the brewery $110/slab + $10 shipping. Site says out of stock but if you're a member email them and they send you one, was my old fav then swung to PL IIPA but now back to Bling Bling!
> I don't think anyone is getting worked up @GalBrew . It's more disappointment I can't buy them anymore because call me stupid but my idea of craft beer is supporting a small independent operation where my cash goes into the pockets of someone who is in the business because of a passion and not the pockets of some OS shareholder who is in the game purely to make money. Craft breweries don't pop up out of a desire to make boat loads of cash(mostly) but rather to pursue a passion knowing there aren't big $$ in it. I respect and want to support that as do many others.
> Credit to them, great beer. If it was shit beer no one would care.



People are getting a tad worked up on the old Facebook I can tell you that! Not quite as much as they were over the Feral sale (I guess we are getting used to it) but a tad excited none the less.


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## GalBrew (30/11/17)

I’ll also add (not directed at anyone here in particular) that these breweries that get bought out owe their customers/fan base/obsessives absolutely nothing. The transaction here is cash for beer. Just because you have bought beer from a particular brewery does not mean you have also bought a fraction of the company and therefore have the right to whinge about the direction said company goes in. Honestly you see some of the stuff out there and you would think that because you have bought a can of IIPA that the brewery owners owe you their first born!


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## husky (30/11/17)

GalBrew said:


> People are getting a tad worked up on the old Facebook I can tell you that! Not quite as much as they were over the Feral sale (I guess we are getting used to it) but a tad excited none the less.



Ah, I don't do facebook so not up to speed with all that. Just went over for a look and can't say I disagree with most of the comments. Craft drinkers are a passionate bunch, we pay a premium for our beers and obviously get a bit pissed when this sort of thing happens but we are a massive minority so doubt PL will notice the few who vote with their $$.


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## mondestrunken (30/11/17)

GalBrew said:


> I seriously don’t know why everyone gets so worked up about this kind of thing. Good on PL for cashing in, may they enjoy the rest of their days on their yacht or mansion or whatever. If you are not down with their new corporate overlords then stop buying their beer. If you are fine then carry on, the beer won’t change one bit and anyone who says otherwise is indulging in some serious confirmation bias.


Yep. It was good while it lasted, PL made their money, and for the rest of us we stop buying when they change the recipes, and then find the next good thing.


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## pcqypcqy (30/11/17)

Droopy Brew said:


> Oh they will get production costs down, I never said otherwise. Its a volume game, if they triple the output costs will come down. The international bulk buying power of AB will also bring ingredient costs down. They are up scaling which produces efficiencies.
> If they do **** with the recipes/ingredients too much, their customers will revert back to other smaller breweries and I'm pretty sure they know that.
> 
> They want to buy into the market but they wont want to splash money around only to see their market share revert back to other craft beers because they turned a good product to shit.



They will absolutely use cheaper ingredients and cut costs on that side, as well as the efficiency of scale they can now achieve.

I think you're mistakenly assuming that we are still the target market. With the full power of Ab InBev's marketing department behind them, they can water it all down and, with a slick marketing campaign, create a larger and more lucrative market of new-to-craft-beer-types-who-don't-know-any-better than they ever had previously as Pirate Life.

Totally good on them though, I hope they're sipping booze in a yacht as we speak.


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## Ducatiboy stu (30/11/17)

Never had one of their beers so dont really give a ****.....

If someone waves lots of money at you....what would you do


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## manticle (30/11/17)

I'm interested in good beer. I'll vote with my feet/wallet based on that rather than pure independence/micro. In my experience, the bigger something gets, the more dilute it (often, not always) becomes but if the beer is good and I want it, I'll buy it. I like and respect DIY but the main reason for my disdain for 'mega' is the tendency to **** things up. If they don't **** it up, I'm happy to buy that and any other good product from both little and big guys. Lots of shit beer out there brewed by mega and independents. I don't want it. Lots of good beer too - I want it.


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## Beersuit (30/11/17)

At first i was mortified but good on them everyone needs a pay day. I bet it was part of a well played out strategy from the start. 
Living in part of the country where we don't get the huge selection of cracking beers im somewhat pleased we may be able to at least some of their 1 off beers or seasonal releases easer. I will how ever reduce my purchasing to these one off beers in the same way I have done with 4 pines, little creatures, mt goat, feral and every other brewery bought up by the big guys. 
Independent brewers get shafted enough with laws around excise and now packaging that their the ones who need our support.


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## Andy_27 (30/11/17)

This seems to be almost a weekly thing. Maybe Modus Operandi will be next week...


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## enoch (30/11/17)

husky said:


> I just ordered some direct from the brewery $110/slab + $10 shipping.


At $110 a slab they will need efficiencies. Even the craft beers at $80 must be a tough sell.


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## Dan Pratt (1/12/17)

giving it some thought, Ballast Point got bought for a billion dollars, the beers they make are still excellent and I'm yet to notice any form of change to recipes since that happened.

side note, does anyone know how much PL went for?? Feral and Four Pines didnt release the sale prices either, what's up with that?


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## SeeFar (1/12/17)

pcqypcqy said:


> They will absolutely use cheaper ingredients and cut costs on that side, as well as the efficiency of scale they can now achieve.
> 
> I think you're mistakenly assuming that we are still the target market. With the full power of Ab InBev's marketing department behind them, they can water it all down and, with a slick marketing campaign, create a larger and more lucrative market of new-to-craft-beer-types-who-don't-know-any-better than they ever had previously as Pirate Life.
> 
> Totally good on them though, I hope they're sipping booze in a yacht as we speak.




Is there a silver lining here though? 

Does having all of these craft companies being bought up by the corps - even if they are watered down somewhat - mean that there will still be a higher-quality stable of beers getting pushed out into the broader market, who will undoubtedly enjoy them and incedentally push up demand for quality beer over and above the usual swill? In short, will this trend lift the averrage standard of beer across the board as more people are introduced to 'craft style' beer?


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## mongey (1/12/17)

As a fan of their beers I have mixed feelings about this

if the product stays consistent and continues to push boundaries with new beers and the price comes down , then great 

but the cynic in me finds that doubtful


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## Grott (1/12/17)

SeeFar said:


> Is there a silver lining here though?
> 
> Does having all of these craft companies being bought up by the corps - even if they are watered down somewhat - mean that there will still be a higher-quality stable of beers getting pushed out into the broader market, who will undoubtedly enjoy them and incedentally push up demand for quality beer over and above the usual swill? In short, will this trend lift the averrage standard of beer across the board as more people are introduced to 'craft style' beer?



I’d say you may have a good point here. There are, will be craft brewers that will produce quality brews because that’s what they want to achieve and there will be those I suspect that will lift the quality (not just to compete) in the hope that they may be bought out for a tidy sum.


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## Droopy Brew (1/12/17)

pcqypcqy said:


> I think you're mistakenly assuming that we are still the target market. With the full power of Ab InBev's marketing department behind them, they can water it all down and, with a slick marketing campaign, create a larger and more lucrative market of new-to-craft-beer-types-who-don't-know-any-better than they ever had previously as Pirate Life.



Ok supposing that is the strategy. Why spend a shit load of money buying out a brewery with a large following of craft beer enthusiasts only to dumb it down, throw a lot of money at a marketing campaign to bring it into the vision of a new market, most of who know little about the brand whilst alienating the strong current market? Would seem a very high risk strategy.

It would make more financial sense to simply start up your own brand of dumbed down pale ales, market the shit out of that to the fence sitters.

Might as well make Yenda V2.0 rather than buy something out if that's the idea.

I know in the past these sorts of buy outs have resulted in a corresponding drop in quality, but I have the feeling that the multitude of buy outs of much loved high quality craft breweries in the past few months by the big boys is in recognition of the shift in consumers knowledge and appreciation of these types of beers in Oz. I reckon they are all trying to get a foot in the door and if one of them blinks (waters down the product) they will lose to the opposition.

I guess we will find out in a couple of years time.


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## GalBrew (1/12/17)

Droopy Brew said:


> Ok supposing that is the strategy. Why spend a shit load of money buying out a brewery with a large following of craft beer enthusiasts only to dumb it down, throw a lot of money at a marketing campaign to bring it into the vision of a new market, most of who know little about the brand whilst alienating the strong current market? Would seem a very high risk strategy.
> 
> It would make more financial sense to simply start up your own brand of dumbed down pale ales, market the shit out of that to the fence sitters.
> 
> ...



I agree, it makes no sense to me to buy a brewery at the pointy end of the craft spectrum and then proceed to literally water down the product offering to reduce COGs. It makes more sense to keep the quality up and to drop the price, putting the squeeze on the independents that can't match price over the long run, wait for them to lose market share and go bust and then jack the price up to whatever the market will tolerate.


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## pcqypcqy (1/12/17)

Droopy Brew said:


> Ok supposing that is the strategy. Why spend a shit load of money buying out a brewery with a large following of craft beer enthusiasts only to dumb it down, throw a lot of money at a marketing campaign to bring it into the vision of a new market, most of who know little about the brand whilst alienating the strong current market? Would seem a very high risk strategy.
> 
> It would make more financial sense to simply start up your own brand of dumbed down pale ales, market the shit out of that to the fence sitters.
> 
> ...



Because people know that Yenda is just some manufactured thing. I reckon the market knows the difference between that, and an actual existing craft beer label that has a history in the craft beer scene. And if ray don't, the marketing department will make sure they do.

For a giant corporation, marketing is nothing, and I dare say the current market reach of what pirate life can achieve is pitiful compared to even the smallest beer in AB InBev's portfolio.

So a reasonably cheap marketing campaign for a legit label with a decent history, a decent distribution/production deal, and away you go. Would shit all over Yenda overnight.

It doesn't matter whether the new drinkers of this beer miss the original or not, the true craft beer enthusiasts (like us here) are such a minute percentage if the market that if they can get a halfway decent product and market it to new people who don't know any different, they'll blow it wide open. And no one is going to listen to us saying that it's not as good as it used to be. We'll just be written off as hipsters.

That's my theory anyway.



SeeFar said:


> Is there a silver lining here though?
> 
> Does having all of these craft companies being bought up by the corps - even if they are watered down somewhat - mean that there will still be a higher-quality stable of beers getting pushed out into the broader market, who will undoubtedly enjoy them and incedentally push up demand for quality beer over and above the usual swill? In short, will this trend lift the averrage standard of beer across the board as more people are introduced to 'craft style' beer?



One would hope so. I'm not against that in any way at all. Like Beersuit said, hopefully it'll assist in getting some half decent beer distributed further than the cap cities.


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## laxation (1/12/17)

I feel like the purchase would initially be to keep the same good beer and recipes, using their market efficiencies where they can.

But over time, if there is constant pressure from up top to keep being profitable, it would result in maybe using a cheaper grain here, less hops there - until next thing you know the beer is completely different. 

On the other hand, if the market efficiencies are enough for them to maintain enough profit, maybe they stay the course.


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## Nullnvoid (1/12/17)

Could they be buying all these breweries so that in 5 years time they can close/stop making and therefore stick with the core range they currently have. 

Sort of blue ant style I guess. 

Expensive way of doing it I guess.


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/12/17)

Remember years ago when there where small breweries everywhere and all sorts of different beers

Remember when they all got bought up by the bigger guys

History is a funny thing


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## Grott (1/12/17)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Remember years ago when there where small breweries everywhere and all sorts of different beers
> 
> Remember when they all got bought up by the bigger guys
> 
> History is a funny thing



What happened to, was it Two Dogs alcohol lemonade. I remember it went berserk and was bought out for a large sum. Have not heard of it since.


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## Yob (1/12/17)

wynnum1 said:


> If they make the changes slowly who is going to notice.



I already did... The Pale ale and the IIPA arent the same beers they once were.. 

Confirmed 2 weeks ago when I spoke to the Vic Rep, I had a taste of the Pale and picked it instantly


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## lmccrone (1/12/17)

Inbev aren't silly, the public is developing a taste for quality beer and Pirate Life produce quality beer, if they change up the recipe then they wont be in the premium market anymore. TATA brought jaguar a few years back, they didn't start sticking a jag hood ornament on all their mass produced cheap cars did they?


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## Droopy Brew (1/12/17)

pcqypcqy said:


> Because people know that Yenda is just some manufactured thing. I reckon the market knows the difference between that, and an actual existing craft beer label that has a history in the craft beer scene. And if ray don't, the marketing department will make sure they do.


Thats right, the craft beer lovers know that, the fence sitters and "new to anything not megaswill drinkers" just think they are hipster as **** drinking "craft beer' . 

Cheaper to manufacture a brand than buy one out for big bickies then water it down.



pcqypcqy said:


> B
> 
> So a reasonably cheap marketing campaign for a legit label with a decent history, a decent distribution/production deal, and away you go. Would shit all over Yenda overnight.



Absolutely. A legit label with a good history and a keen following. Good marketing, distribution deal and it will do well for sure. Then turning it to shit will undo that good work- they have recognised the changing beer culture in Australia and know they need some top shelf in their stable to take advantage of the trend towards quality beers. 

Look I have no doubt there will be some changes, almost all beers do due to supply of ingredient etc.- Yob has already noticed this prior to the buy out.
However I just dont see the business sense in what you are proposing that they will buy out a tip shelf beer to water down and flog off to craft beer beginners.
I think there is a misconception that the craft beer loving audience is a very select group. I think this market is rapidly expanding and these guys know it and are getting ahead of the game.

As I said, time will tell, its all speculation at the moment but I think the times they are a changing so history may not always be the best guide.

I hope so anyway- PLIIPA is da fickin shiz.


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## SeeFar (1/12/17)

I think Pirate life already straddles the craft and general beer market as many do these days. You go into Dan Murphies, BWS and any number of bottlos not affiliated with Coles and you'll see Pirate Life, Feral and a few others. It's also already sold overseas. The craft and general markets have been overlapping for years now so I think there already is a lot of brand recognition and market penetration. 

I agree that there's little point in buying out an operation and then changing its fundamentals when you can just crreate another Steamshovel or Yenda. However, I think the price point of PL will create a very difficult barrier for it to cross over greatly into the mainstream and I think even with scale it's going to be difficult to bring it down far enought to be able to sit on a tap next to Fat Yuk and compete for the big dollars. 

Time will, as you say, tell the story. Fingers crossed, anyway as I love the IPA and Mosaic.


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## good4whatAlesU (1/12/17)

The big guys just want to protect profits in what is a dwindling market (people are drinking less beer due to nanny state restrictions). Turdwaffle is about to find out what happens when you try and fudge the system to benefit the big players (unless he stacks the royal commission - which is exactly what he's trying to do).


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## danestead (1/12/17)

Andy_27 said:


> This seems to be almost a weekly thing. Maybe Modus Operandi will be next week...



I'm bloody well hoping not; that's about the last independently owned brewery around. Id also take the money if it was offered but I too am worried these award winning breweries beers will have their recipes "tweaked".


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## GalBrew (1/12/17)

danestead said:


> I'm bloody well hoping not; that's about the last independently owned brewery around. Id also take the money if it was offered but I too am worried these award winning breweries beers will have their recipes "tweaked".



There are still 400 odd left according to the IBA.


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## manticle (1/12/17)

Buckleys is still independent.


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## SeeFar (1/12/17)

good4whatAlesU said:


> The big guys just want to protect profits in what is a dwindling market (people are drinking less beer due to nanny state restrictions). Turdwaffle is about to find out what happens when you try and fudge the system to benefit the big players (unless he stacks the royal commission - which is exactly what he's trying to do).



I thought people were drinking less but actually spending more specifically because of the increase of craft beers in the market. Is that not correct?


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## mondestrunken (1/12/17)

Incorrect, we are spending more AND drinking more at the same time.


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## SeeFar (1/12/17)

Yep, there you go, up for the first time in 9 years: http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/he...r/news-story/9a73d22ba74c02ea576a78dc16e7c060


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## good4whatAlesU (1/12/17)

I stand corrected, with the current state of affairs - looks like people are turning to the grog.


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## mondestrunken (1/12/17)

Oh dear...
I meant that last post as a joke.
Sadly it seems to be true.


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## good4whatAlesU (1/12/17)

Wait till driverless cars arrive. Alcohol boom!!


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## Beersuit (1/12/17)

I was talking to a mate on the phone about it today and he made a solid point, the big guys see their " craft" products like little creatures, yenda and yac selling for $60ish a slab in dans and proper craft fetching $80+. Buy one or 2 then knock their packaging costs by half and shave a shit ton off their ingredients per litre due to global contracts and still charge $80+ a slab. On a win as far as I can tell. 

I think there is only 1% of the craft drinking population that really knows who they are suporting when they hand over their hard eaned cash. I may be wrong but we will see on the 27th of January if people understand independent or not. Dont start on the date changing thing.


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## contrarian (2/12/17)

Anyone remember blue tongue? Got bought out and then discontinued. Not saying this will happen with pirate life but to think the megas are buying successful brands with the intention of broadening their range isn’t always right. Sometimes it’s just to obliterate the competition.


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## manticle (2/12/17)

Was bluetongue successful?


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## Ducatiboy stu (2/12/17)

Blue Tungue was a marketing thing backed by John Singleton.

Was then sold to CCA ( Coke ) as they wanted in on the growing beer market.

CCA went on to work with Casella wines ( Yellow Tail wine...which is crap at best ) at Yenda 

Was then sold to Lion and dismantled and moved to Yatala because it was cheaper to buy it and relocate the equipment than to build new equipment at Yatala.

Lion didnt give a **** about Blue Tungue, they just wanted cheap equipment.

Blue Tungue beer was pretty shit ( the Pilsner was ok ) and even their head brewer admitted it.

Singo made a tidy profit of course.......just like Pirate


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## Dave70 (2/12/17)

Schikitar said:


> They are dead to me.





husky said:


> Mother fuc#ers



Oh.... _please_...

Micros are like ******* shark teeth. Soon enough there'll be another spring up that makes Pirate Life taste like junkies piss.
So lets not get all moist eyed over business people doing what comes naturally. 
Personally I support Jack Camerons capitalist spirit an will continue to support the product at every opportunity. 
More so if he reads this and forwards me a slab of throwback.


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## Dave70 (2/12/17)

manticle said:


> Was bluetongue successful?



Heres a helpful metaphor.


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## Schikitar (2/12/17)

Dave70 said:


> lets not get all moist eyed over business people doing what comes naturally


Far from 'moist eyed' old mate. Good luck to them but I choose to spend my dollars with the smaller guys, like that Kick Snare Brewing beer I'm drinking in my pic..


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## Dave70 (2/12/17)

Schikitar said:


> Far from 'moist eyed' old mate. Good luck to them but I choose to spend my dollars with the smaller guys, like that Kick Snare Brewing beer I'm drinking in my pic..



And small guys appreciate your support, I know, I'm small guys - albeit in a far less interesting and creative business.


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## Peter80 (2/12/17)

I hope the purchasing of brewers like Feral and PL will allow me to get access to their beer where I am. To give you a run down I can only access Creatures and S&W where I am and they are $70 to $80 a case. Freight is huge to get something nice where I am and I prefer to save the coin to get grain. If this means that there is even a slim chance of seeing these beers at the big bottleo (that is 100k from my town) then there is a silver lining for me. Further my mates in Townsville do not even get access to Feral's Boris at Murphy's online. They do not ship it there. To one of their shops. 

This is not a whinge about where I live but a hope that I can get access to some other beer sometimes.


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (2/12/17)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Blue Tungue was a marketing thing backed by John Singleton.
> 
> Was then sold to CCA ( Coke ) as they wanted in on the growing beer market.
> 
> ...



CUB owns Yatala.

It is quite possible that much of this equipment was auctioned off recently https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/ex-cub-equipment-auction.97065


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## contrarian (2/12/17)

The success or quality of Blue Tongue is actually irrelevant. The point was more that CUB et al buy other companies for a variety of reasons and they aren't always about maintaining the integrity or survival of the product.


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## husky (2/12/17)

Dave70 said:


> Oh.... _please_...
> 
> Micros are like ******* shark teeth. Soon enough there'll be another spring up that makes Pirate Life taste like junkies piss.
> So lets not get all moist eyed over business people doing what comes naturally.
> ...



No moist eyes here, when I do buy beer again it just wont be PL which is annoying as I do like their beer. The impending drop in quality won't be an issue as it's no longer on the menu, but there will be a drop.

They haven't been brought to make the product better they have been brought to expand market share and only time will tell what that does to the quality.
If only some of the shit micros(of which there are plenty) would get brought out so they could be done better. It wont happen because as you say capitalist mentality.

I would argue that what comes naturally is a slow organic growth not oh here's $10M to go build a new facility but that's just me, obviously a non subscriber to the whole capitalist, take over the world thing.


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## CDS01 (2/12/17)

As a New South Welshman my recent visit to SA meant that after drinking copious amounts of wine I was given my leave pass to sample the range of delicious brews that PL offered. After leaving I was inspired to show more support for the amazing craft beew industry this country has to offer. Unfortunately, i would like to throw my support behind Australian business. What is also disappointing is how positive the staff were on PL's expansion to a larger brewing premises but with no mention of the aquisition by a foreign body. For shame....


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## Ducatiboy stu (2/12/17)

Lyrebird_Cycles said:


> CUB owns Yatala.
> 
> /QUOTE]
> 
> Dont matter who owns it...there all the same at the end of the day


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## Ducatiboy stu (2/12/17)

contrarian said:


> The success or quality of Blue Tongue is actually irrelevant. The point was more that CUB et al buy other companies for a variety of reasons and they aren't always about maintaining the integrity or survival of the product.



Correct


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## garage_life (2/12/17)

They've had a pilsner and something else (sorry those brain cells cannot be found) to be canned for a while now, stock in BWS, music festival and hop distributor collabs, thouhmght it was going this way for a long time. Let's hope it doesn't go to complete shit shtaight away. I'll take off the tinfoil hat now and go back to my garage_life.


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## garage_life (2/12/17)

pcmfisher said:


> Controversial? What a similar little recycling scheme to what we have had in SA for the last 40 odd years.
> We don't do much right in SA but we got this one right.
> 
> How will it affect administration costs of small operators?


I was very dirty as a young fell when I moved from SA to QLD, strange football, no cash for cans and missed out on Pirate Life...


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## mondestrunken (2/12/17)

pcmfisher said:


> Controversial? What a similar little recycling scheme to what we have had in SA for the last 40 odd years.
> We don't do much right in SA but we got this one right.
> 
> How will it affect administration costs of small operators?


I don't know... here in Canberra we have been putting our empties in the recycling bin no problems. Now they're going to bring in 10c deposit and we'd have to scrounge around in the bin like squirrels to get our money back. How is that progress?


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## CDS01 (2/12/17)

So true mondenstrunkenm
The last thing i want on bin night is to be chasing the rats from my recycling bin. NSW govt u have obviously not put much thought in this. Crucifying small business by putting unnecessary "10cent" refund on products which will now go up more than 10%. This is not Australia


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## GalBrew (2/12/17)

CDS01 said:


> So true mondenstrunkenm
> The last thing i want on bin night is to be chasing the rats from my recycling bin. NSW govt u have obviously not put much thought in this. Crucifying small business by putting unnecessary "10cent" refund on products which will now go up more than 10%. This is not Australia



Yeah I don’t get it either. Is kerbside recycling not working?


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## mondestrunken (2/12/17)

Yep! We've already been voluntarily recycling these things.


GalBrew said:


> Yeah I don’t get it either. Is kerbside recycling not working?


+100
Why tax people when they're already complying?


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## lost at sea (2/12/17)

i wonder where the grain mill from blue tongue ended up? lol


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (2/12/17)

mondestrunken said:


> +100
> Why tax people when they're already complying?



Because they're not.

Recycling rates in Australia are quite low, generally 40 - 50% and that figure is biased upwards by paper which is around 80% ( most likely because most paper use is not in the domestic sphere).

Container recycling rates in SA are around 80%, about double the average in the other states.

Take home message: We are basically a bunch of ignorant slobs who have to be forced or bribed to "do the right thing".


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## Ducatiboy stu (2/12/17)

NSW put in a scheme the government didnt really want to...but saw a few votes in it

We all now that it will end up as just a complete fuckup, as per usual


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## Brewman_ (2/12/17)

lost at sea said:


> i wonder where the grain mill from blue tongue ended up? lol


I Wonder where...


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## Coalminer (3/12/17)

Where indeed


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## rydebrew (3/12/17)

Dead to me.
I hear on the abc that small brewery four pines was complaining about $20k in administration fees to comply with the nsw bottle buy back. In nearly pissed myself laughing.


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## huez (3/12/17)

Lyrebird_Cycles said:


> Because they're not.
> 
> Recycling rates in Australia are quite low, generally 40 - 50% and that figure is biased upwards by paper which is around 80% ( most likely because most paper use is not in the domestic sphere).
> 
> ...



I'm confused as to what they are trying to achieve with the scheme as they don't know what to do with all the glass as it is. It's cheaper to import new glass then it is to recycle glass in australia. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-...ed-to-stockpile-glass-industry-crisis/8778088


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## Ducatiboy stu (3/12/17)

huez said:


> I'm confused as to what they are trying to achieve with the scheme as they don't know what to do with all the glass as it is. It's cheaper to import new glass then it is to recycle glass in australia. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-...ed-to-stockpile-glass-industry-crisis/8778088



Unfortunately when raw materials are so damn cheap its pointless to recycle....

Cars and most consumer goods are the same...why spend $2k fixing a Commodore/Falcon when you can get a complete one running for the same amount


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## mondestrunken (4/12/17)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Unfortunately when raw materials are so damn cheap its pointless to recycle....
> 
> Cars and most consumer goods are the same...why spend $2k fixing a Commodore/Falcon when you can get a complete one running for the same amount


Yes it's one of life's tragedies when you realise that your beloved shit-box of a car would cost more to repair than to crush it and buy something else.


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## Roosterboy (5/12/17)

I have to add my 2 cents worth . I saw PL was saying " Nothing will change." I haven't worked
for a giant public company in the liquor industry but to think a company who has thousands of
shareholders won't change the operations and ingredients over time is just ludicrous.
The very sneaky people of the marketing team will have it all planned. 
In the honeymoon period it will seem everything is good and a win - win for everyone. 
But eventually the beer recipes will be changed and cheaper ingredients used. To think 
otherwise is to say ; an executive given the chance to make more money for themselves
and for the company , won't for the sake of some beer drinkers.


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## Lionman (5/12/17)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Cars and most consumer goods are the same...why spend $2k fixing a Commodore/Falcon when you can get a complete one running for the same amount



I would rather spend 2k fixing a car I know than spend 2k for a running one I dont know.


Knowing one of the guys from PL, I wouldn't be surprised that if AB-Inbev start getting involved with the brewhouse, that another brewery springs up pretty soon afterwards.


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## Ducatiboy stu (5/12/17)

Lionman said:


> I would rather spend 2k fixing a car I know than spend 2k for a running one I dont know.



Yes. You do have a point. And I do agree. I should know, after still owning the first car I bought at the ripe old age of 17 ( a 1961 Morris Minor Ute...still has original engine and matching numbers )

That Ute has pretty much cost me only an engine rebuild kit, rego, oil, oil, oil, more oil, oil & oil...and rego...and more oil

I now have a Landrover...and yes...it is still worth spending the money on to keep it going


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## stm (6/12/17)

Lyrebird_Cycles said:


> "do the right thing".



Who gets to decide what is the "right thing" on behalf of everyone?


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## Ducatiboy stu (6/12/17)

stm said:


> Who gets to decide what is the "right thing" on behalf of everyone?



Them, not us


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (6/12/17)

Did you not recognise the quote?


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