# Mclaren Vale Ipa - Wow



## bevdawg

Picked one up last night at BWS (I must admit they're improving) and wow, fruity hoppy goodness! This beer was just what I like.

Anyone pick the 3 hops they use?


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## bum

Galaxy, NS and Citra.


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## GalBrew

I must admit I also like their IPA, much more than their other offerings. I would have to guess Galaxy, Citra and something else (not amarillo).

thanks Bum, NS it is.


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## Phoney

I've only had it on tap, and I have to admit I'm not that impressed. The bitterness and hop flavour is what I'd expect from an APA, I dont think it's any more bitter or fruitier than an old school LCPA.


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## jakethedog

I was down at their McLaren Vale shop and had a couple on tap very nice.
From their drinks menu -

" VALE/IPA - India Pale Ale, 5.5% ABV, 41 IBU
An Australian interpretation of an American IPA, using a combination of hops from three countries. Galaxy from Australia, Nelson Sauvin from New Zealand and Citra from United States. Malt flavours are derived from the combination of Pale, Wheat and Crystal. Very hop forward showing strong pine and citrus notes, with stone fruit and passionfruit characters. The malt structure is beautifully matched with the dry hopping, giving this beer a refined balance."


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## bum

jakethedog said:


> "The malt structure...."


The what?! You could make this beer from 100% dex and wouldn't be able to tell the difference.


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## hughman666

I had this on tap at the Coopers Ale House in Adelaide a few weeks back. Loved it.


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## loikar

phoneyhuh said:


> I've only had it on tap, and I have to admit I'm not that impressed. The bitterness and hop flavour is what I'd expect from an APA, I dont think it's any more bitter or fruitier than an old school LCPA.



It is an IPA, it comes in low for the style, but it is an IPA.

What you have to remember is that for every craft beer enthusiast there are 100 SuperDry drinkers.
For a Business to function they need a target audience. VALE/ALE and VALE/DRY I think are fantastic gateway beers to help herd the mainstream TED drinkers towards more flavorful beers.

They also have the VALE/DRK which I think is an excellent beer and will happily drink that all night long.
The VALE/IPA, on it's own is a great beer, and in my opinion, is the best beer on offer in the APA/IPA range that BWS and Woolies outlets.

It's no EPIC or 8Wired, but you cant walk into any BWS, Dan Murphys, or Woolworths Liquor and buy them off the shelf either.


BF


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## hughman666

Totally agree. Ive said it before, that a lot of brewers' tastebuds become mis-calibrated with time. Brewing ever-intensifying hop beers is fun but it does take you away from what is regarded as typical of style.

If you go to the states and try the regular IPAs over there such as Lagunitas IPA aren't super hoppy.

My 2c...



BeerFingers said:


> It is an IPA, it comes in low for the style, but it is an IPA.
> 
> What you have to remember is that for every craft beer enthusiast there are 100 SuperDry drinkers.
> For a Business to function they need a target audience. VALE/ALE and VALE/DRY I think are fantastic gateway beers to help herd the mainstream TED drinkers towards more flavorful beers.
> 
> They also have the VALE/DRK which I think is an excellent beer and will happily drink that all night long.
> The VALE/IPA, on it's own is a great beer, and in my opinion, is the best beer on offer in the APA/IPA range that BWS and Woolies outlets.
> 
> It's no EPIC or 8Wired, but you cant walk into any BWS, Dan Murphys, or Woolworths Liquor and buy them off the shelf either.
> 
> 
> BF


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## piraterum

phoneyhuh said:


> I've only had it on tap, and I have to admit I'm not that impressed. The bitterness and hop flavour is what I'd expect from an APA, I dont think it's any more bitter or fruitier than an old school LCPA.



Yeah unfortunately I think marketing is getting in the way of accurate beer names. It's definately more like a fruity APA than a malty and bitter IPA. 

Whatever it is, it's damn tasty and a good session beer :icon_drool2: 


Although this newspaper is rubbish, this article points out their intentions

http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/blogs/t...ay/2522069.aspx


It's not a strong IPA, designed more to appeal to what head brewer Jeff Wright calls "emerging flavour seekers" than your dedicated hopheads.

"Our IPA was brewed to offer an approachable interpretation whilst still packing a punch with flavour and maintaining that distinctive hop character," Wright says.

None of which should be taken to mean that this is a watered-down IPA.

Sure it doesn't possess the instant mouth-puckering astringency of some craft beer IPAs but I reckon that's an advantage. Those hop-heavy IPAs are great, but jeez it wears your tongue out trying to drink more than a couple.

That's where the Vale IPA wins out. It has a lower level of that piney astringency - enough to let you know it's most definitely an IPA but not so much that you have to stop at one bottle.

As a plus, it has some nice aromas of citrus, passionfruit and pine. Think of it as a sessionable IPA.


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## bum

hughman666 said:


> If you go to the states and try the regular IPAs over there such as Lagunitas IPA aren't super hoppy.


Nor are they dry as a chip like AIPAs are here. Comparing the Vale IPA to Lagunitas IPA is just ludicrous. In fact, even mentioning the breweries in the same context is a bit weird. With many of their beers (not including their very sessionable IPA) Lagunitas push boundaries and make commercially dangerous beers. Vale are all marketing and about tricking the lowest common denominator into thinking they aren't drinking the sort of beer they already drink. Their IPA smells lovely but the aroma is just bolted on to the standard yellow and fizzy Aussie fare.


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## chunckious

Indian Passito Ale


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## donburke

Chunkious said:


> Indian Passito Ale



passiona's back


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## GalBrew

donburke said:


> passiona's back
> 
> 
> View attachment 53920



You know I had a very nice passionfruit wheat beer in Hawaii a while back. No Galaxy passionfruit. Just real passionfruit.
Kona Wailua Wheat (I think) perfect thirst quencher in the heat and humidity.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

bum said:


> Galaxy, NS and Citra.



Sweet - guessed it!

Like it, but not an IPA.

Goomba


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## loikar

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Sweet - guessed it!
> 
> Like it, but not an IPA.
> 
> Goomba



Actually, Yes, it is an IPA.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

BeerFingers said:


> Actually, Yes, it is an IPA.



Not hoppy enough to be an IPA.

Excellent beer, though.

Goomba


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## loikar

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Not hoppy enough to be an IPA.
> 
> Excellent beer, though.
> 
> Goomba



Agree with the Excellent part.

But it fits in the category and style of an IPA, if only just.


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## bkmad

bum said:


> Nor are they dry as a chip like AIPAs are here. Comparing the Vale IPA to Lagunitas IPA is just ludicrous. In fact, even mentioning the breweries in the same context is a bit weird. With many of their beers (not including their very sessionable IPA) Lagunitas push boundaries and make commercially dangerous beers. Vale are all marketing and about tricking the lowest common denominator into thinking they aren't drinking the sort of beer they already drink. Their IPA smells lovely but the aroma is just bolted on to the standard yellow and fizzy Aussie fare.



From BJCP
14B. American IPA
Aroma: A prominent to intense hop aroma with a citrusy, floral,
perfume-like, resinous, piney, and/or fruity character derived
from American hops. Many versions are dry hopped
and can have an additional grassy aroma, although this is not
required. Some clean malty sweetness may be found in the
background, but should be at a lower level than in English
examples. Fruitiness, either from esters or hops, may also be
detected in some versions, although a neutral fermentation
character is also acceptable. Some alcohol may be noted.
Appearance: Color ranges from medium gold to medium reddish
copper; some versions can have an orange-ish tint.
Should be clear, although unfiltered dry-hopped versions may
be a bit hazy. Good head stand with white to off-white color
should persist.
Flavor: Hop flavor is medium to high, and should reflect an
American hop character with citrusy, floral, resinous, piney or
fruity aspects. Medium-high to very high hop bitterness, although
the malt backbone will support the strong hop character
and provide the best balance. *Malt flavor should be low to
medium, and is generally clean and malty sweet although
some caramel or toasty flavors are acceptable at low levels*. No
diacetyl. Low fruitiness is acceptable but not required. The
bitterness may linger into the aftertaste but should not be
harsh. *Medium-dry to dry finish*. Some clean alcohol flavor
can be noted in stronger versions. Oak is inappropriate in this
style. May be slightly sulfury, but most examples do not exhibit
this character.
Mouthfeel: Smooth, medium-light to medium-bodied mouthfeel
without hop-derived astringency, although moderate to
medium-high carbonation can combine to render an overall
dry sensation in the presence of malt sweetness. Some smooth
alcohol warming can and should be sensed in stronger (but
not all) versions. Body is generally less than in English counterparts.
Overall Impression: A decidedly hoppy and bitter, moderately
strong American pale ale.
History: An American version of the historical English style,
brewed using American ingredients and attitude.
Ingredients: Pale ale malt (well-modified and suitable for
single-temperature infusion mashing); American hops; American
yeast that can give a clean or slightly fruity profile. Generally
all-malt, but *mashed at lower temperatures for high attenuation.*Water character varies from soft to moderately sulfate.

Dunno but your description of the Vale IPA seems to match the BJCP guidelines. I'm not saying the BJCP guidelines match the other beers you're talking about, just saying that it does appear to match the guidelines.


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## drsmurto

If anyone can find one piece of legislation that requires any brewer in this country to label/market their beer according to set of guidelines from an american homebrewing organisation (BJCP), please post it here.


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## manticle

Thankyou.


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## bum

The BJCP is dancing about architecture.

Drink some fresh examples of the beers that typify the style. Decide for yourself.

The problem with your bold is that it the qualifications for the statements are assumed. Yes, mashing a 1070 OG beer low is going to be drier than if you mash high but it isn't ever going to be "dry" - and that is EVERYTHING that is wrong with A-anything beers in this country. Christ, reading that makes it seem like you could use dry enzyme and still be in style. Brewers read the guidelines and make entirely incorrect assumptions. Every broadly available A* style beer in this country is entirely wrong. Go there, drink some, try to work out if you think a _single_ example of these styles of beer from here would last 2 weeks in the market there. My opinion is that they wouldn't if they chose to apply the name APA/AIPA. Entirely valid for you (and brewers) to prefer them but don't pretend they're indicative of something that they are not.


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## bkmad

DrSmurto said:


> If anyone can find one piece of legislation that requires any brewer in this country to label/market their beer according to set of guidelines from an american homebrewing organisation (BJCP), please post it here.



I'm not saying they should. However, it is a definition of an IPA, Vale IPA appears to fit said definition, therefore some may say it is an IPA. I was also pointing out that American style IPA's is expected to be reasonably pale and reasonably dry (according to the american homebrewing association).

For the record I prefer an IPA like Vale or Punk, which are both quite dry without much malt flavour and really just a showcase of hops. Also for the record, I couldn't give a damn whether a beer sits in with BJCP. Nice beer is nice beer.


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## loikar

bum said:


> Vale are all marketing



Every business is about marketing. 
unless you want to sit in the back of the pavilion, behind your card table, butchers paper and crayon poster with a milk crate full of your awesome beers just waiting for someone to stumble across them and have a eureka moment. 
But still making sure the word doesn't get out about your magically tasting double IPA that makes angels cry when you drink it, you don't want to become "mainstream" and ruin all the "niche" and obscurity that you have. because that pays your bills so well.



bum said:


> and about tricking the lowest common denominator into thinking they aren't drinking the sort of beer they already drink. Their IPA smells lovely but the aroma is just bolted on to the standard yellow and fizzy Aussie fare.



Tricking the punters?, No I don't think so (And if it is trickery, it's for their own fking good).
Showing the punters that there is an alternative to the big two's beers that they have been chugging for the last 40 years (and while we're exaggerating) that's not a ball tearing DIPA that will make their lips pucker from bitterness so hard the'll be able to lick their own digestive tract and never try a 'fancy' beer again? 
I think yes.

As for the aroma being bolted onto the "standard yellow and fizzy Aussie fare" I think you might need to go buy a 4 pack to refresh your memory Bum.

BF


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## bum

BeerFingers said:


> Every business is about marketing.


No, most are about marketing a _product_. Vale are very much style over substance.



BeerFingers said:


> Tricking the punters?, No I don't think so (And if it is trickery, it's for their own fking good).
> Showing the punters that there is an alternative to the big two's beers that they have been chugging for the last 40 years (and while we're exaggerating) that's not a ball tearing DIPA that will make their lips pucker from bitterness so hard the'll be able to lick their own digestive tract and never try a 'fancy' beer again?
> I think yes.


Why do you keep saying "they"?

I'm not expecting (nor even hoping for, to be honest) to find a palate wrecker at Woolworths. I'm not saying people shouldn't buy or enjoy it if that is their want. I'd just like to taste some malt, thanks.



BeerFingers said:


> As for the aroma being bolted onto the "standard yellow and fizzy Aussie fare" I think you might need to go buy a 4 pack to refresh your memory Bum.



I think it was about 2 weeks ago I had it. May be much better on tap - I will try it when I see it.


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## chunckious

BeerFingers said:


> But still making sure the word doesn't get out about your magically tasting double IPA that tastes like angels pissing on your tongue.



Fixed.

As a one off beer, yes please. As an IPA, it can sit next to Sleeping Giant on the shelf thanks.


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## sponge

There's plenty of 'low range/borderline' IPA's around, but as posted above, all fit within the BJCP specs.

And as DrS stated, there's not much in the way of having to name a beer based on the exact style, so can very well be outside the specs and be names whatever the brewer pleases.



Sponge


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## [email protected]

My 0.002 cents.
All names aside it has a real nice fruity aroma, otherwise i found it over carbonated thin and very bland in the malt department. 
If i have to buy beer i will continue to buy LCPA over this beer every time or when i can find it Bullant brewery IPA shits all over both of them.


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## loikar

bum said:


> No, most are about marketing a _product_. Vale are very much style over substance.



I'll agree that Vale do have a well versed 'brand'. But to bundle their products in the same boat as Hahn or Pa-Thooeys is highly inaccurate.



bum said:


> Why do you keep saying "they"?



To exclude myself and yourself from the "standard yellow and fizzy Aussie fare" punter. "They" the typical SuperDry drinkers.



bum said:


> I'm not expecting (nor even hoping for, to be honest) to find a palate wrecker at Woolworths. I'm not saying people shouldn't buy or enjoy it if that is their want. I'd just like to taste some malt, thanks.



Have you tried the DRK?
Look, i'm not a big fan of the DRY, and the ALE, while not my first choice was one of the "gateway" beers that got me onto the bigger, more flavour beers, so I do have a place for it in my fridge.
However, the DRK and the IPA are a definite big cut above the first 2.



bum said:


> I think it was about 2 weeks ago I had it. May be much better on tap - I will try it when I see it.



I actually think the brewer\brewers\company\whoever has tweaked the recipe from the first initial carton I bought, lately the bitterness seems to have put it's hand up and there was some definite back bone there.


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## hughman666

bum said:


> Vale are all marketing and about tricking the lowest common denominator into thinking they aren't drinking the sort of beer they already drink.



Of course, it's a conspiracy. How could we have missed that?

Thanks for clearing it up


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## Murcluf

Far out!, anyone up for a game of spot the Vale/Ale fan club members, BF you'd have to be the president by a long shot.  

But seriously, I get what they are trying to do and I get the market they are aiming for, and although their beers have yet to impress me either. I have no doubt, oneday they will have something that will. Unfortunately the way things are in this country it is extremely difficult establish a success business based on a product aimed a a very very very tiny target group who make their own beer anyway and don't have to pay the same taxes, wages, rents, etc etc etc that you do. 

At the end of the days if you want a big fresh hoppy IPA that rips the guts out of your tongue, then brew one yourself.


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## loikar

Murcluf said:


> Far out!, anyone up for a game of spot the Vale/Ale fan club members, BF you'd have to be the president by a long shot.
> 
> But seriously, I get what they are trying to do and I get the market they are aiming for, and although their beers have yet to impress me either. I have no doubt, oneday they will have something that will. Unfortunately the way things are in this country it is extremely difficult establish a success business based on a product aimed a a very very very tiny target group who make their own beer anyway and don't have to pay the same taxes, wages, rents, etc etc etc that you do.
> 
> At the end of the days if you want a big fresh hoppy IPA that rips the guts out of your tongue, then brew one yourself.



Well Said.

Apart form the first bit


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## kevo

And here I was thinking this was a good beer because I enjoyed it, thought it tasted good and smells great. And would be very happy to brew something like this myself.

It's not even to style!  

What a fool I am!


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## Fourstar

DrSmurto said:


> If anyone can find one piece of legislation that requires any brewer in this country to label/market their beer according to set of guidelines from an american homebrewing organisation (BJCP), please post it here.



Hallelujah!



manticle said:


> Thankyou.



+1

I had this a few months back and was pleasantly surprised and the quality and hoppiness of this beer. Is it an American IPA? Probably a softer interpretation of one. Is it within BJCP style? Hell yes(short on ABV). Would it fare well on the west coast of the US of A? Probably so if it was sold as a pale ale given the ABV. 

In short, not all IPAs need to be a lupulin extreme IPA which coats your ballsack in yellow fuzz after every pint. If its not your preferred style of IPA, that's ok. It wasn't made to target your palate. I'd also suspect it was kept at this ABV for tax purposes (just a guess).

In short, ignore all of the style arm waving. Is the beer balanced, refreshing and enjoyable? I happily consumed three pints of it.


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## MaltyHops

piraterum said:


> ...
> It's not a strong IPA, designed more to appeal to what head brewer
> Jeff Wright calls "emerging flavour seekers" than your dedicated hopheads.
> ...


Our very own AHBer/BAer Boston ...


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

Enjoying the rest of the 4 pack.

My missus (who's pregnant) couldn't stop smelling it last night.

If anything would make her fall off the wagon, it'd be this one.

She smells it and just goes "passionfruit, yum - you bastard".

Goomba


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## donburke

i had this at the australian hotel on tap and thought it was a great pilsner  , perhaps a little too much crystal, a little too much forward hop character and i think they used the wrong yeast for the style, but a mighty fine pilsner nonetheless  

certainly a lot nicer than some of the other offerings


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## bum

Fourstar said:


> In short, not all IPAs need to be a lupulin extreme IPA which coats your ballsack in yellow fuzz after every pint. If its not your preferred style of IPA, that's ok. It wasn't made to target your palate.


Aside from those saying "it isn't an IPA" and little else, the only specific complaint that has been made about this beer is that it isn't malty enough.


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## DUANNE

am i the only one to have found this beer an overly one dimenional passionfruit bomb? just like a slightly bigger brother of s+w pacific ale to me. i agree with the comments of the malt being lacking wich i can overlook but the hops while fairly obvious dont really have any complexity beyond all that passionfruit.


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## [email protected]

BEERHOG said:


> am i the only one to have found this beer an overly one dimenional passionfruit bomb? just like a slightly bigger brother of s+w pacific ale to me.



interesting comparison and i agree.


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## Adam Howard

bum said:


> Aside from those saying "it isn't an IPA" and little else, the only specific complaint that has been made about this beer is that it isn't malty enough.



Hard to get both a malty and dry beer without having a higher alc content which eludes to the point that Fourstar made about tax purposes. Hell even SNPA is higher in alcohol than most Aussie offerings that call themselves IPA's. Sooner the stoopid tax gets alleviated on craft beer in Aus the better.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

Fair call bum.

I do like it. It is a passionfruit bomb, not an IPA for beer nerds (heck, I don't like IPA for beer nerds - I have limits to bitterness wanted in a beer), but I do like it.

Reckon a few more IBU from an early hop addition would balance out the uber fruity softdrinky taste it sometimes gets.


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## properbeer

Here's my review of it guys..... http://beerbeer.org/?p=12189 :beer: 
Not bad at all and I am a big EPIC fan too


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## bevdawg

Well ya go away for a few days and look what happens 

If only I could get this many responses to my 'what have I done wrong?' threads 

Thanks for the hop info, much appreciated. 

I know this is a very tame beer by many standards, but as a few have said it's a great session beer (tried it out at poker on Friday night) albiet, it's overpriced. Anyway, I love the hop flavors more than anything in this. Could have a little more malt backbone, but if I made a beer like this I would be happy.


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## Clutch

I introduced this to a mate who's been sitting on the craft beer fence for a while and he really enjoyed it.
I couldn't care less what style it fits into, I was a fan.

Being fairly new at this, can anyone point out a readily accessible IPA for me to try, since this obviously isn't one?
I've had Hopwired, I've had Hop Hog, I've had Torpedo. What I now need is an armchair beer expert to point me in the right direction so I can stop lying to my friends when I say I like drinking IPA.


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## bum

Clutch said:


> can anyone point out a *readily accessible* IPA for me to try


No. The beers you mention, plus Punk IPA, are about your lot as far as big chain AIPAs go (and even then, I very much doubt you're getting the first two at every Dans/1st Choice.


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## mwd

Punk IPA is my pick not impressed by Torpedo unless it was bad from Dan's. Punk is beut if you like your American hops, trouble is it is expensive and so drinkable you will never stop after one.


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## JaseH

I'm a fan of Punk. I've had good and average Torpedo, when its good(fresh) its good! Recently had Mornington Peninsula IPA and IIPA, really liked their IIPA. Also Jamieson's Beast IPA. Not sure on the Beast - was good, but the caramel.. just not sold on it? Maybe I need a few more.


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## vortex

Clutch said:


> Being fairly new at this, can anyone point out a readily accessible IPA for me to try, since this obviously isn't one?
> I've had Hopwired, I've had Hop Hog, I've had Torpedo. What I now need is an armchair beer expert to point me in the right direction so I can stop lying to my friends when I say I like drinking IPA.



You don't have to like IPA. Plenty of beer geeks do, sure, but you don't have to. Beer is subjective, and only you can decide what you like. The IPA's you've listed I personally enjoy all of them, but once I didn't like IPAs either.

Perhaps give a few American Pale Ale's a bash, they're a little more mellow compared to seppo IPAs and you may find them more enjoyable. SN Pale Ale is a great one and easy to get at Dans.


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## manticle

Try an English IPA - Samuel smiths india ale is a good one to start.

Completely different beast.

No you don't have to like AIPA. While I like a lot of US hopped beers including some AIPAs, the style has become the triple J of the 'alternative' beer drinking world, especially in this country.


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## bum

I'm reading his comments as being more about other peoples' comments than about the beers he mentions or his appreciation of the style in general - could easily have that arse about but.


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## manticle

I sometimes wouldn't know my arse from my elbow, except for the beer farts.


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## manticle

Clutch said:


> I've had Hopwired, I've had Hop Hog, I've had _*Torpedo*_.


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## Charst

Beer4U said:


> My 0.002 cents.
> All names aside it has a real nice fruity aroma, otherwise i found it over carbonated thin and very bland in the malt department.
> If i have to buy beer i will continue to buy LCPA over this beer every time or when i can find it Bullant brewery IPA shits all over both of them.


 :icon_offtopic: 
Bullant is making an IPA? Who in Bruthen is drinking it! I better get home while it lasts. I had the nut brown and it was a gusher. The pale is a nice apa but Hargreaves hill were brewing it when I tasted it.


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## CONNOR BREWARE

I saw the mclaren tonight for the first time when going in for a four pack of Ferral golden ace, for a dinner at mates. The mates prefer light lagers, low carb and pilners so you have to bring your own tastes if they vary. all good considering the top shelf scotch and spirits are always flowing.

After reading this thread I'll def give Mclaren a crack. I just find that if I over do it on IPAs they lose there addictive hold. Basically I love them, but love to leave them and then dive back in head and pint glass first.


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## CONNOR BREWARE

Clutch said:


> I introduced this to a mate who's been sitting on the craft beer fence for a while and he really enjoyed it.
> I couldn't care less what style it fits into, I was a fan.
> 
> Being fairly new at this, can anyone point out a readily accessible IPA for me to try, since this obviously isn't one?
> I've had Hopwired, I've had Hop Hog, I've had Torpedo. What I now need is an armchair beer expert to point me in the right direction so I can stop lying to my friends when I say I like drinking IPA.


 I noticed hop wire is available again. I love it but after rampaging through every IPA I can get my hand on I'm just not happy to pay the price for the hopwired any more. Gues I just gotta pull my finger out and brew!


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## 2much2spend

kooinda APA, koonida black IPA can be found somewhat locally
holgate hoppanator .
mountian goat IPA is a rareaty but can be found, they have done a rye IPA too and a coffee IPA.
even though some are hybrids they are worthy of a try.
IMO.


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## [email protected]

Charst said:


> :icon_offtopic:
> Bullant is making an IPA? Who in Bruthen is drinking it! I better get home while it lasts. I had the nut brown and it was a gusher. The pale is a nice apa but Hargreaves hill were brewing it when I tasted it.



Topic is not seeming to matter here anyway - was not that impressed by their PA here - http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=897522 
IPA review is a few posts after that - Ive had it once more since and its not a bad beer at all.


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## Clutch

Thanks 2much, I'll hunt them down and try them.


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## Truman42

Tried this tonight and was impressed. I would like to brew some for our annual family xmas party to try and convert some of my megaswill drinking inlaws.

Has anyone done a clone of this or can suggest a recipe from the database that might come close?

Their website says 

AN AUSTRALIAN INTERPRETATION OF AN AMERICAN IPA, USING A COMBINATION OF HOPS FROM THREE COUNTRIES. GALAXY FROM AUSTRALIA, NELSON SAUVIN FROM NEW ZEALAND AND CITRA FROM UNITED STATES. MALT FLAVOURS ARE DERIVED FROM THE COMBINATION OF PALE, WHEAT AND CRYSTAL.

But Im not experienced enough to work out what combination of malts and hop schedule to use. Ive used Galaxy before and have over done it and I don't want this to be too overpowering with galaxy.

Could Daemons sticks and stones clone or Ross Nelson Sauvin summer ale be a good place to start? I would very much appreciate someone who knows what combination I should use the malts and the hop schedule to use giving me some guidance.

At a guess would I add citra at 60 mins then maybe add galaxy and Nelson at 15 10 and 5???


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## waggastew

I love this beer, particularly the stone fruit characteristics. Without having attempted to clone this to go about brewing it I think you would need to use:

- >90% pale malt, a small amount of crystal say <5% (try to use a mix of dark and light to build up malt complexity), and <5% wheat for a bit of body
- Mash low (65degC) to get the dry thin finish
- Ferment low (18degC) with US05 to get a clean ferment
- Use something neutral (like Magnum) at 60min to get the backbone of bitterness i.e. 10-20IBU
- 30min, 10min, 5min, 0min and Dry Hop additions of Citra, Galaxy and NS. You could use different hops at different times but I think that the a good place to start would be to make up a hop blend composed of 1/3 each hop and then add this blend in appropriate amounts to hit your desired IBU e.g.

60min 10g Magnum, 16 IBU
30min 15g Hop Blend, ~15 IBU
10min 15g Hop Blend, ~6.5 IBU
5min 15g Hop Blend, ~4 IBU
0min 10g Hop Blend
Dry Hop 10h Hop Blend

This will probably end up a bit over the top compared to the commerical so you could always but back some of the later additions (10min onwards) 50% to avoid getting too much hop love!

This is all speculation but I doubt this will be a bad beer. If you do end up having a go at a clone keep us posted re: results.

Stew


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## bignath

Waggastew just saved me typing my opinion out.

I'd do EXACTLY what he suggests and see how it comes out.

I love the idea of blending the hops too..they are pretty similar in AA% so it should work out well. May not be right on the money, but it will be an awesome beer to tweak from once you've made it and go from there.

EDIT: Actually, i have all of those ingredients on hand at the moment.
Hmmmmm, maybe i should take a shot at it too!


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## OneEye

I'm a big fan of this beer too. I'd be using magnum for bittering too... any other super alpha's will be good place to start. Citra is definitely the standout hop for me in this beer so plenty of that late.


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## Truman42

waggastew said:


> I love this beer, particularly the stone fruit characteristics. Without having attempted to clone this to go about brewing it I think you would need to use:
> 
> - >90% pale malt, a small amount of crystal say <5% (try to use a mix of dark and light to build up malt complexity), and <5% wheat for a bit of body
> - Mash low (65degC) to get the dry thin finish
> - Ferment low (18degC) with US05 to get a clean ferment
> - Use something neutral (like Magnum) at 60min to get the backbone of bitterness i.e. 10-20IBU
> - 30min, 10min, 5min, 0min and Dry Hop additions of Citra, Galaxy and NS. You could use different hops at different times but I think that the a good place to start would be to make up a hop blend composed of 1/3 each hop and then add this blend in appropriate amounts to hit your desired IBU e.g.
> 
> 60min 10g Magnum, 16 IBU
> 30min 15g Hop Blend, ~15 IBU
> 10min 15g Hop Blend, ~6.5 IBU
> 5min 15g Hop Blend, ~4 IBU
> 0min 10g Hop Blend
> Dry Hop 10h Hop Blend
> 
> This will probably end up a bit over the top compared to the commerical so you could always but back some of the later additions (10min onwards) 50% to avoid getting too much hop love!
> 
> This is all speculation but I doubt this will be a bad beer. If you do end up having a go at a clone keep us posted re: results.
> 
> Stew



Thanks Stew Thats awesome. Will give that exact recipe a try and see how it turns out.

Should I add a stepped mash with this, or just mash at 65C for 90 mins then mash out at 76C??


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## Truman42

Heres what I get when I plug it into brewmate. The IBU's are a bit down as I reduced all 10 min and less hop additions a bit. Should I increase the 60 min magnum addition to compensate or increase the other additions? Ive noticed before with brewmate and my system/procedure my beer always seems more bitter than what brewmate predicts anyway. 

Does anyone else find this or is it just me??

Also do you think crystal 15 and 80 is the way to go or should I go for crystal 10 and 120 to be at the extremes of light and dark crystal?

thanks again.

Vale IPA Clone (American IPA)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.056 (P): 13.8
Final Gravity (FG): 1.014 (P): 3.6
Alcohol (ABV): 5.50 %
Colour (SRM): 6.8 (EBC): 13.3
Bitterness (IBU): 36.0 (Average)

90.01% Pale Malt
5% Wheat Malt
2.49% Crystal 15
2.49% Crystal 80

0.5 g/L Magnum (12.5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
0.2 g/L Citra (11.1% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil)
0.2 g/L Galaxy (13.4% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil)
0.2 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil)
0.1 g/L Citra (11.1% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
0.1 g/L Galaxy (13.4% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
0.1 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
0.1 g/L Citra (11.1% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil)
0.1 g/L Galaxy (13.4% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil)
0.1 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 5 Minutes (Boil)
0.1 g/L Citra (11.1% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil)
0.1 g/L Galaxy (13.4% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil)
0.1 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil)
0.1 g/L Citra (11.1% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)
0.1 g/L Galaxy (13.4% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)
0.1 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 0 Days (Dry Hop)


Single step Infusion at 65C for 90 Minutes. Boil for 90 Minutes

Fermented at 18C with Safale US-05


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## sinkas

I Tried the VAL DRK on tap at the royal perth beer award,
and it was an excellent black IPA it seemed completely different to what I had tasted in the bottle


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## waggastew

Types of crystal are a guess at this stage so use what you have. I know Warra uses a mix of at least 3 different crystals in his AIPA, just go easier on the dark ones, maybe 2:1 ratio?

As for the mash there are many more experienced brewers than me. I only do partials but tend to mash at single infusion temp of 65degC when I want it dry. Time will depend a bit on your level of patience and the level/speed of conversion you get with your system

Make sure you pay attention to yeast health (aeration, nutrient etc) as you want it super clean. You may also want to pitch two packs of US05 if you have them?

As I said before keep us posted on how it turns out. It will more than likely be different to the Vale IPA but that won't be a bad thing. When trying to clone commercial beers I like I tend to find that when I go back and do a taste comparison I start finding faults or things I don't like in the commercial beer!

Stew


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## Thefatdoghead

Bought a 4 pack of this stuff last night and gave the rest to my old man after trying to finish 1 bottle. Tasted old to me. Not really balanced at all with little to no malt presence. Maybe I had an older bottle or something but I won't be buying any more especially for those prices! I would like to try it fresh to get a good idea of what the beer is like because if it tastes like that fresh then I don't know why people would want to drink it.


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## Truman42

waggastew said:


> Types of crystal are a guess at this stage so use what you have. I know Warra uses a mix of at least 3 different crystals in his AIPA, just go easier on the dark ones, maybe 2:1 ratio?
> 
> As for the mash there are many more experienced brewers than me. I only do partials but tend to mash at single infusion temp of 65degC when I want it dry. Time will depend a bit on your level of patience and the level/speed of conversion you get with your system
> 
> Make sure you pay attention to yeast health (aeration, nutrient etc) as you want it super clean. You may also want to pitch two packs of US05 if you have them?
> 
> As I said before keep us posted on how it turns out. It will more than likely be different to the Vale IPA but that won't be a bad thing. When trying to clone commercial beers I like I tend to find that when I go back and do a taste comparison I start finding faults or things I don't like in the commercial beer!
> 
> Stew



Thanks Stew, Will do..


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## Nick JD

I don't buy anything that's sold in a 4 pack. <_<


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## kcurnow

I had one of these last night and after reading all the comments about the hop character I must say my vale must have been fairly old then as there was not much fruity hop aromas and a fairly soft bitterness at the finish. What I did notice was a prominent malt flavour and caramel aromas that even my sometimes beer drinking wife kept grabbing my glass for a smell of. I did enjoy it but I would have said it was more IPA than AIPA and even then it was borderline in style.


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## piraterum

Gav80 said:


> Bought a 4 pack of this stuff last night and gave the rest to my old man after trying to finish 1 bottle. Tasted old to me. Not really balanced at all with little to no malt presence. Maybe I had an older bottle or something but I won't be buying any more especially for those prices! I would like to try it fresh to get a good idea of what the beer is like because if it tastes like that fresh then I don't know why people would want to drink it.




I've tried this on tap and in bottles. It tastes great on tap with lots of hop flavour and aroma. In bottles it can be variable, i've had a few that were very ordinary with hardly any hop flavour.


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## NewtownClown

sinkas said:


> I Tried the VAL DRK on tap at the royal perth beer award,
> and it was an excellent black IPA it seemed completely different to what I had tasted in the bottle




You found it to be an EXCELLENT black IPA?
Really? At 4.5%ABV and ONLY 30 IBU's you call it IPA?

According to head brewer, Geoff Wright
VALE/DRK is an *American Dark Lager*, brewed using Pale, Munich, Crystal malts and Carafa roasted malt. It has a great malty backbone that is perfectly matched to the bitterness and flavours derived from the hops. The hops leave a perfect clean palate that will leave you wanting another glass.


VALE/DRK is 4.5% ABV, 30 IBU and uses Falconer's Flight hop from the US.

"VALE/DRK complements the other Vale beers that we produce for the beer fan looking for something different," Jeff Wright said


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## jammer

Can't you just let the people have their fun, Newtown clown. If that's even your real name???Why confuse people with science and facts!


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## chunckious

jammer said:


> Can't you just let the people have their fun, Newtown clown. If that's even your real name???Why confuse people with science and facts!



Don't make it a personal attack mate. they are the facts.
Hophog is my favorite pilsner.


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## slash22000

I reckon living in Darwin the beer we get must be old as hell, since basically every beer that celebrated as having amazing hop aroma/flavour tastes like .. nothing .. when I get my hands on it. :huh: 

I tried this Vale IPA recently and could hardly taste or smell any hop presence at all. I was pissed that they'd dare to call it an "IPA". Maybe it was just old.


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## NewtownClown

jammer said:


> Can't you just let the people have their fun, Newtown clown. If that's even your real name???Why confuse people with science and facts!


 still stinging after the rugby, eh?
The difference between u poms and a 747?
Jet engines STOP whining when they reach the tarmac in Australia


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## gravey

slash22000 said:


> I reckon living in Darwin the beer we get must be old as hell, since basically every beer that celebrated as having amazing hop aroma/flavour tastes like .. nothing .. when I get my hands on it. :huh:
> 
> I tried this Vale IPA recently and could hardly taste or smell any hop presence at all. I was pissed that they'd dare to call it an "IPA". Maybe it was just old.




bottle is quite different to the keg, I've found some bottles of it to be very underwhelming and I'm pretty damned close to the source.

I quite like the hop combination so use it in my house Pale Ale. Not trying to clone it per-se, but I do play around with the additions everytime I brew it and I've done it about 5 times now. Latest iteration I didnt do a 60 min addition, all 30min onwards just for shits and giggles. Also throw some hops into the whirlpool and dry hop with Citra. Ended up @ 30IBU. Will probably change the 30min back to 60 next time, though the beer is pretty damned nice with nothing but late additions.....very tropical


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## jammer

NewtownClown said:


> still stinging after the rugby, eh?
> The difference between u poms and a 747?
> Jet engines STOP whining when they reach the tarmac in Australia



Oh I see. Dispensing crap racist jokes as well as putting down people that don't know their arse from their ipa's???? Fine. What's the difference between an Aussie, and a pot of yoghurt??? The yoghurt has culture. ; )Boom tish. Sorry, back on topic......It's a reasonable beer.


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## NewtownClown

jammer said:


> The yoghurt has culture.



like your lagers...

also back on topic.

The Vale IPA, when fresh, is a surprisingly nice drop. Especially when the rest of their range are very much "gateway" beers, ones designed to reach a wider market - especially "new" craft beer drinkers, in a similar vein to James Squire's range.


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## gravey

NewtownClown said:


> like your lagers...
> 
> also back on topic.
> 
> The Vale IPA, when fresh, is a surprisingly nice drop. Especially when the rest of their range are very much "gateway" beers, ones designed to reach a wider market - especially "new" craft beer drinkers, in a similar vein to James Squire's range.




true, dont see the appeal of Vale Ale or the Dark Ale, its nothing special. The EXP Stout/Porter thing they did was pretty awesome though and the EXP Wheat Beer wasnt too shabby either, if only they'd have the balls to go full time with those beers rather than just doing small experimental batches.


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## hsb

NewtownClown said:


> like your lagers...


?






Haven't had this IPA, will check it out simply because it's Australian-made, despite being English and feeling the purple pain of loss to the awful Wallabies.


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## sinkas

NewtownClown said:


> You found it to be an EXCELLENT black IPA?
> Really? At 4.5%ABV and ONLY 30 IBU's you call it IPA?
> 
> According to head brewer, Geoff Wright
> VALE/DRK is an *American Dark Lager*, brewed using Pale, Munich, Crystal malts and Carafa roasted malt. It has a great malty backbone that is perfectly matched to the bitterness and flavours derived from the hops. The hops leave a perfect clean palate that will leave you wanting another glass.
> 
> 
> VALE/DRK is 4.5% ABV, 30 IBU and uses Falconer's Flight hop from the US.
> 
> "VALE/DRK complements the other Vale beers that we produce for the beer fan looking for something different," Jeff Wright said



it drank like a Black IPA 
I suspect this was possibly a special batch, as the bottled verison I have tasted was nothing like it, 
I relasie you are probably new to craft beer and brewing and fidn commentry like you made really insightful, but despite appearances, I do know what I am talking about.


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## gravey

sinkas said:


> it drank like a Black IPA
> I suspect this was possibly a special batch, as the bottled verison I have tasted was nothing like it,
> I relasie you are probably new to craft beer and brewing and fidn commentry like you made really insightful, but despite appearances, I do know what I am talking about.



It was quite possibly the EXP (Experimental) Stout they did, which had a fair degree of hoppiness to it. Certainly wasn't to-style. Great beer.


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## chunckious

gravey said:


> It was quite possibly the EXP (Experimental) Stout they did, which had a fair degree of hoppiness to it. Certainly wasn't to-style. Great beer.



Now that was a nice beer. Thnax Gravey, forgot about that one.


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## gravey

hoping they release it in the main lineup eventually. If you see a Vale Ale tap with EXP written on it, jump on it, so far the 2 I have tried (Stout and Wheat) have been crackers and far more interesting than the main lineup.


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## Drew

So...Truman or anyone else pull off a clone that they thought was good?

I'll be doing this brew in a few weeks. The Vale IPA is delicious.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

When the recipedb is back online, look for my "Lord Nelson Citra Cascading out of this Galaxy Pale Ale" - it's got Cascade in it, but really dominated by Citra more than anything.

Read the thread topic (when it's up) - it has a few variations on the theme - some by me, some by other brewers, and lots of helpful feedback from me and other brewers. I think Truman was one of the brewers giving good feedback.

I know the bloke who bought my kegs used Chinook instead of Cascade and reported some fine results for it as well. I reckon if you want to keep the fruitiness but cut the 'passiona' overload, Chinook is great. I'm finding it (and some of the other piney, resinousy descriptor hops) are an excellent foil to the fruity hops in making a well balanced beer with loads of flavour.

I've got 50kg of pilsener malt, an uncut 50L keg and no gas bottle. So I won't be able to remake it for a while (in fact I don't know what I'll make with all that pils malt), but when I do, I'll probably try out Mosaic as well in place of Nelson and make sure that Chinook has a say in there as well.

Goomba


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## Dave70

bevdawg said:


> Picked one up last night at BWS (I must admit they're improving) and wow, fruity hoppy goodness! This beer was just what I like.
> 
> Anyone pick the 3 hops they use?





bum said:


> The what?! You could make this beer from 100% dex and wouldn't be able to tell the difference.





BeerFingers said:


> As for the aroma being bolted onto the "standard yellow and fizzy Aussie fare" I think you might need to go buy a 4 pack to refresh your memory Bum.





kevo said:


> And here I was thinking this was a good beer because I enjoyed it, thought it tasted good and smells great. And would be very happy to brew something like this myself.





bum said:


> Aside from those saying "it isn't an IPA" and little else, the only specific complaint that has been made about this beer is that it isn't malty enough.





Truman said:


> Tried this tonight and was impressed.





waggastew said:


> I love this beer, particularly the stone fruit characteristics.





Gav80 said:


> Bought a 4 pack of this stuff last night and gave the rest to my old man after trying to finish 1 bottle.





NewtownClown said:


> The Vale IPA, when fresh, is a surprisingly nice drop. Especially when the rest of their range are very much "*gateway*" beers, ones designed to reach a wider market - especially "new" craft beer drinkers, in a similar vein to James Squire's range.



Yep, subjective bickering is what makes the internet awesome. But I think the I's have it. 
And what in the blue fcuk is a "gateway'' beer? Will it lead me to drinking rum and shoplifting?

For my 2c, I found Vale to be better than some beers and worse than others.


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## stakka82

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> I've got 50kg of pilsener malt, an uncut 50L keg and no gas bottle.



If you were McGyver, you could build a microbrewery with that...


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

stakka82 said:


> If you were McGyver, you could build a microbrewery with that...


I don't have a mullet for starters.

Though fat, overweight middle age women do find me attractive....


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## fletcher

i made a recipe 'similar' to this and am tasting it now after 2 weeks but i think my citra hops are too over-powering. that and the taste is almost there but needs a slight grain and hop adjustment and i'll get much closer. definitely more hops needed for me as i feel the ibu is too low (or at least subdued) due to bottling. recipe is here if anyone cares - http://sexyfuntimebrewing.weebly.com/foveaux-street-ipa.html

i'll see how it is in a few weeks but also look to change to pale malt instead of pilsner, add more munich (i'd run out), and add a LOT more hops (but less citra respectively).


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## Bizier

Dave70 said:


> And what in the blue fcuk is a "gateway'' beer? Will it lead me to drinking rum and shoplifting?


I am glad I found this comment Dave. You just made my night.


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## scon

Odd - I picked up a four pack of this on the weekend and was not impressed at all. Had a sweet, caramelly malt taste to it and not much hop flavour at all. Maybe I got a bad fourpack.


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## vortex

scon said:


> Odd - I picked up a four pack of this on the weekend and was not impressed at all. Had a sweet, caramelly malt taste to it and not much hop flavour at all. Maybe I got a bad fourpack.


Old stock.


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## waggastew

Went to a beer night a few months back and Vale IPA was one of the beers. Turned out to be a year old, all malt, flabby etc. This beer needs to b fresh.


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## fletcher

waggastew said:


> Went to a beer night a few months back and Vale IPA was one of the beers. Turned out to be a year old, all malt, flabby etc. This beer needs to b fresh.


very true.


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## Dave70

Bizier said:


> I am glad I found this comment Dave. You just made my night.


That's what *she* said..

_HIYOOOOOOO!.._


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## Droopy Brew

I had tried the IPA in Melbourne a few months ago on tap and thought it was a damn fine drop.
Was down on the Gold Coast earlier this week and one of the restaurants had the PA which was not too bad- standard Pale Ale fare.
Then I saw they had a Vale Lager on tap and despite not being much of a Lager drinker I gave it a go. WOW that is one good beer. Not sure on the Hops they are using as I am relatively new to the brewing game but it had a distinct Grapefruit flavour and was absolutely crystal clear. It has got me interested in giving a Lager a go now.


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## GalBrew

Droopy Brew said:


> I had tried the IPA in Melbourne a few months ago on tap and thought it was a damn fine drop.
> Was down on the Gold Coast earlier this week and one of the restaurants had the PA which was not too bad- standard Pale Ale fare.
> Then I saw they had a Vale Lager on tap and despite not being much of a Lager drinker I gave it a go. WOW that is one good beer. Not sure on the Hops they are using as I am relatively new to the brewing game but it had a distinct Grapefruit flavour and was absolutely crystal clear. It has got me interested in giving a Lager a go now.


I got a 4 pack of the lager upon its release from my local uncle Dan's only to find it was skunked. I have never had a skunked beer in my life, other than in a beer faults session but there you go. Might have to try again.


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## Droopy Brew

Yep recommend giving it another go for sure. See if you can find it on tap somewhere.


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## Damn

Mclaren Vale Ipa - Wow!!

Just bumping this back to the top. This a fantastic "American" IPA. I just scored a slab of it and it won't last. If you can have a session able IPA this is one.
I'm already getting disappointed that my slabs finished and I'm only 6 in.


----------

