# Tooheys Old - Clone



## Brownie (25/9/05)

Hi,

I am a newbie and like Tooheys Old.

I know Tooheys make a kit "Tooheys Dark Ale"; and 

I know Coopers make a kit "Coopers Dark Ale".

Does anyone know which would be a) the best; and

B) the closest to the Tooheys Old or better.

Also once I have the kit would Coopers Brew Enhancer 2 be sufficient or will I need to add other ingredients?

Please be gentle...........


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## Tony (25/9/05)

Hi brownie.

Before i gave up cans foe grain i tried both the tooheys and coopers old kits and i have to say they are both nothing like tooheys old. ( i am a fan of the old too)

Try getting onto ESB in sydney.

they make an "old pack" that is much closser.

Make it with a 50/50 blend of dex and LME and maybe steep 100g of chocolate grain for a bit more flavour.

Brew with a good liquid yeast like Wyeast 1318 for a soft easy drinking beer with a hint of sweetness.

cheers

tony


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## GMK (25/9/05)

here is a can recipe for tooheys old

Beermakers Old, 1.5kg of Light LME, 200gms Dark Brown Sugar.

Boil LME, suagr in 10ltrs of water for 30mins with 20gms of POR Hops.
3mins to end of boil add 15gms of cascade.
Pitch Windsor Ale yeast in primary for 10days - Rack to secondary for 2 weeks and put in the fridge for 3 days before bulk priming.

Optional:
25gms og Cascade for dry hoping
100gms of lactose in secondary

Hope this helps you out.


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## Brownie (25/9/05)

Tony....who are ESB?

I live in Canberra...do they do mailorder?


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## jayse (25/9/05)

GMK said:


> Optional:
> 25gms og Cascade for dry hoping
> 100gms of lactose in secondary
> 
> ...



Theres some options you'd do well to avoid  
seriously though being only your second brew I would recomend coopers old can with a brew booster blend which is half malt half dextrose or similiar.
Being only your second brew also yeast isn't really here nor there but down the track maybe i'd look at using wyeast scottish ale for brews like these.

Happy brewing 
jayse


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## warrenlw63 (25/9/05)

Brownie.

I reckon when Chiller gets home he's going to give you such a smack! :lol: 

Fair chance you need to change your avatar. h34r: 

Warren -


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## Thunderlips (26/9/05)

Brownie said:


> Tony....who are ESB?
> 
> I live in Canberra...do they do mailorder?
> [post="79416"][/post]​



Yes they do.
http://www.esbeer.com.au/
They sell some nice fresh wort kits too.
The last dark ale I made was Morgans Australian Old with their Roasted Black Malt and 12gms of Fuggles hops. I liked it so much I bought two more tins soon after.


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## PostModern (26/9/05)

I'm with Thunderlips on this. I made a Morgans Pub Series Old with a 50/50 mix of Light DME and Dark DME and 12g of fuggles, fermented with the kit yeast. A long secondary fermentation and this beer was absolutely beautiful.


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## Brownie (26/9/05)

Thanks everyone for your suggestions, will keep them in mind, probably go simple first, then be mroe adventurous later when i have a few more brews under my belt.

Cheers

Andrew.


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## Brownie (26/9/05)

Thunderlips I will check out the morgans one too


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## Brownie (26/9/05)

Jayse,

Did you mean the Coopers Classic Dark Ale?

If so I assume most HBS's have this?

Warren, Avatar...changed to ensure I don't get a whuppin


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## Thunderlips (26/9/05)

Brownie said:


> Thunderlips I will check out the morgans one too
> [post="79558"][/post]​



As far as kits go, they make some fairly decent ones.
Check their website.
http://www.morgansbrewing.com.au


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## homebrewworld.com (26/9/05)

I remember doing a 'St Peters Stout Fresh Wort Kit' from ESB in Sydney and added about 4L of extra water , and man it was a T.Old Clone !
Oh and took all of about 10 mins to whip up !


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## jayse (26/9/05)

Brownie said:


> Jayse,
> 
> Did you mean the Coopers Classic Dark Ale?
> 
> ...




Yeap thats the can I was talking about, makes a great beer I think.


Jayse


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## Brownie (26/9/05)

Anyone heard of Beermakers brand.

They do an Old....would hope so apparently Beermakers is done by lion nathan.

If anyone has tried it, let me know....


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## Bilph (26/9/05)

Brownie said:


> Anyone heard of Beermakers brand.
> 
> They do an Old....would hope so apparently Beermakers is done by lion nathan.
> 
> ...



Heard of them, used them a couple of times, but not the Old unfortunately.
IMHO they're on a par with Tooheys. It wouldn't surprise me if they come off the same line, even though the labels give different addresses. Both out of NZ.
They're passable for what they're intended to deliver.


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## Thunderlips (26/9/05)

Bilph said:


> Heard of them, used them a couple of times, but not the Old unfortunately.
> IMHO they're on a par with Tooheys. It wouldn't surprise me if they come off the same line, even though the labels give different addresses. Both out of NZ.
> They're passable for what they're intended to deliver.
> [post="79583"][/post]​



I tried one Beermakers tin about a year ago, the Munich Lager, and I'm sure it was made in England. As far as I'm aware, the Beermaker name was taken over by Brewcraft. The Munich Lager, and all the others in that range, are now called Brewcraft.
I see though that the Australian line is still called Beermaker.
You can see them over at http://www.liquorcraft.com.au/afawcs011324...dient-Kits.html
Btw, I remember that Munich Lager as being quite nice.


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## Tim (27/9/05)

Beermakers/brewcraft kits are produced by Muntons maltings.


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## Thunderlips (27/9/05)

Tim said:


> Beermakers/brewcraft kits are produced by Muntons maltings.
> [post="79695"][/post]​



English then.
Bilph reckoned he saw some that were made in NZ. I wonder if Muntons has a factory there or maybe they get someone else to make some for them there?


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## Tim (27/9/05)

My local hbs told me that since they got the new packaging they have been coming from muntons.
Most extracts we get here ie blackrock, goldrush, msb, muntons (anything lion nathan) come from NZ.


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## Mothballs (27/9/05)

Thunderlips said:


> Tim said:
> 
> 
> > Beermakers/brewcraft kits are produced by Muntons maltings.
> ...



The Beermakers Australasian range is made by Maltexo (Lion Nathan in NZ) and the Brewcraft range is made by Muntons in the UK. The brewcraft range are the replacements for the now defunct Beermakers imported range which were also produced by Muntons. 
:beer:


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## Wassa (28/9/05)

I regulary make the following and find it to be extremely close the my beloved Tooheys Old:

1 can Tooheys Dark Ale
600gm Dry dark malt
400gm Maltodectrin
15gm teabag of willamette hops.

Bring jug to boil and make a teabag of Willamette hop teabag in a coffee mug
Dissolve malt and maltodextrin in 2 litres of boiling water then add can and mix. Put mixture straight into fermenter and add hop tea along with teabag. Fill fermenter up to 23 litres and add Safale yeast.

When fermentation has finished rack to second fermenter for a week then bulk prime with dextrose and bottle.

Hope this helps.


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## Uncle Fester (28/9/05)

Brownie said:


> Tony....who are ESB?
> 
> I live in Canberra...do they do mailorder?
> [post="79416"][/post]​



BYOAH in Kambah stocks the entire ESB range, including all of the fresh wort stuff.


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## Jazzafish (29/9/05)

I agree that williamette hops would be better. 

Also, take the plunge into seeping/partial mashes early. People make out that seeping grain/boiling is hard... it isn't. 

However, it takes a bit longer as there is more to do... but the improved flavour is worth the extra time.

Read the brewing methods at www.howtobrew.com a couple of times, then go for it. If you get stuck or are unsure at anytime, do a search or post on this forum.

With the Old clone, wassa's seems the one to go with IMHO (In My Humble Opinion). Maybe seep some chocolate grain too.


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## Ducatiboy stu (29/9/05)

Tooheys Old most definatly uses choc malt. Ross actaually showed me a sample from JWM that they malt especially and exclusivly for Tooheys.

You could try this

Ale malt 5 ebc 65%
Pilsner malt 3 ebc 22%
Pale choc malt 740 ebc 7%
Crystal malt 175 ebc 3.5%
Choc malt 1260ebc 2.2%

POR for 21 Ibu at 90mins
EKG for 2.2 Ibus at 20mins

Have tasted this exact recipe and it is so close it aint funny..

When I do it next it will be Fuggles and EKG


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## colinw (29/9/05)

I recently made a dark ale which would have been quite close except it had 200g of Amber malt which added a biscuity flavour that isn't present in Old.

From memory I used about 3% crystal and around 8% dark malts which were a mix of Aussie black malt and English chocolate malt. The aroma was very close to Tooheys old, but flavour was quite different due to the Amber malt.

For flavour/aroma I used a tiny addition of Saaz hops - to me the Tooheys beers all have a slightly spicy aroma which a Pride of Ringwood + Saaz combo goes a long way toward reproducing.

I don't actually see a lot of point in cloning Tooheys Old. Any decent homebrew dark ale recipe, whether it be kit, extract & grains or full mash, should produce a dark ale which is superior in every way while not being offensive to Tooheys Old lovers. (But then, with the possible exceptions of LCPA, Duvel and Westmalle Tripel I fail to see the point in cloning anything and like my beer to just be itself).

(EDIT: if Lion Nathan succeed in stuffing up Coopers, I'll have to extend that to cloning the Sparkling Ale - I'd be really p*ssed off if I couldn't get my Coopers sparkling).

cheers,
Colin


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## voota (29/9/05)

Brownie said:


> Anyone heard of Beermakers brand.
> 
> They do an Old....would hope so apparently Beermakers is done by lion nathan.
> 
> ...




I've tried the Beermakers old kit a few years ago, just with 500g dark malt extract, and 500g dextrose. Turned out very nice, perhaps a little maltier than the old but the bitterness and hopping was pretty well spot on. 

, Voota


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## Tony (5/10/05)

Thanks Stu, i was just about to post that one in.

I recon Fuggles or willamette are the go.

If i do the above AG recipe again i would use

Ale malt 5 ebc 65%
Pilsner malt 3 ebc 22%
Pale choc malt 550 ebc 5%
Crystal malt 145 ebc 5%
Choc malt 1260ebc 3%

POR for 16 - 18 IBU at 90 min boil
20g Fuggles at 20 min boil

1.044, 18 to 20 IBU.

firment with a nice pommy yeast at low temp to give a clean finnish but with some character.

Very nice beer.

cheers


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## DrewCarey82 (20/10/05)

Brownie said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am a newbie and like Tooheys Old.
> 
> ...



Beer makers old.
500g of dark malt
500g of dextrose.

Easy as and bloody nice, am putting on my second batch of it today!


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