# Dunkelweizen recipe?



## Dan Pratt (30/1/13)

With the database down due to the upgrade I'm looking for a dunkelweizen recipe that someone has made and can recommend.

I've searched the net and read the the bjcp style guidelines so in hoping someone can throw me something worth a try.


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## mckenry (31/1/13)

Hi Pratty,
The one and only Dunkle I made (known as Unkle Dunkle - for my brother Duncan) was well received I don't have my exact percentages, but the make-up was this;

55% wheat
20% Munich
20% Vienna
5% Special B

Saaz to 20IBU - 60 min only

3038 or 3638 - the only two wheat yeasts I have used


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## Dan Pratt (31/1/13)

i have heard of that one, ok i will try that out and see how it turns out.

What colour was yours?


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## mckenry (31/1/13)

Pratty1 said:


> i have heard of that one, ok i will try that out and see how it turns out.
> 
> What colour was yours?


Colour was definitely at the lower end for a dunkle, browner side of golden brown. I was being cautious with the Special B as I'd read heavy handedness leads to a caramel flavour. Just guessing, about 25 - 30 EBC. Could have upped the Special B for a darker beer as the caramel did not come through at 5%
Must give this another run one day.


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## Liam_snorkel (31/1/13)

the only dunkelweizen I've made was bloody delicious. similar story to mckenry on the lower end of IBU/EBC/ABV.
it went like this:


Original Gravity (OG): 1.044 (�P): 11.0
Final Gravity (FG): 1.011 (�P): 2.8 (actually hit 1.010)
Alcohol (ABV): 4.32 %
Colour (SRM): 16.4 (EBC): 32.2
Bitterness (IBU): 17.4 (Rager)

48.48% Munich I
48.48% Wheat Malt
3.03% Carafa II malt special

1.1 g/L Pacific Hallertau (5.5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)

Single step Infusion at 66�C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 70 Minutes

Fermented at 20�C with Safbrew WB-06


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## Dan Pratt (31/1/13)

Hi Liam,

I recall you posted that a while back, it might of been on the 'what are you brewing thread' and Im glad you have posted it, thanks for that. 

I think this one is teh better option > could try it with Wyeast 3068?

Cheers :chug:


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## Liam_snorkel (31/1/13)

Pratty1 said:


> Hi Liam,
> 
> I recall you posted that a while back, it might of been on the 'what are you brewing thread' and Im glad you have posted it, thanks for that.
> 
> ...


I'm sure mckenry's is also delicious. I was just going through a "put heaps of munich in everything" phase when I brewed that one. That phase is still going!


re 3068: I have no experience with liquid wheat yeasts so others will be more qualified to comment. 

One thing I can say is that WB06 throws heaps of cloves if fermented under 20deg.


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## warra48 (31/1/13)

Instead of Pale Wheat, use Dark Wheat for a Dunkelweizen.
Makes a significant difference to the result, for the better.

Pity the recipe DB is down, because Tony's Dunkelweizen is a great recipe.


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## Nick JD (31/1/13)

warra48 said:


> Instead of Pale Wheat, use Dark Wheat for a Dunkelweizen.
> Makes a significant difference to the result, for the better.
> 
> Pity the recipe DB is down, because Tony's Dunkelweizen is a great recipe.


This.

Weyermann's "dark" (isn't very dark) wheat malt has a wonderful flavour that's a bit different than the darker barley malts. Something happens when they give _wheat _an extra kilning - a flavour you can't replicate with dark barleys.

I use all dark wheat as the wheat content.

EDIT: I highly recommend using a liquid yeast for a hefe. While WB06 will make a good hefe, 3068 will make a commercial-level hefe (it's the yeast the majority of them use).

IMO, WB06 is better at making *W*it *B*iers than HefeWeizens.


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## Dan Pratt (31/1/13)

Top stuff guys, thanks for the input. I will get a recipe finalised and post it over the weekend. Hopefully tony gets a read of this and can share that recipe, I know he has a top witbier to.


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## warra48 (31/1/13)

Nick JD said:


> I highly recommend using a liquid yeast for a hefe. While WB06 will make a good hefe, 3068 will make a commercial-level hefe (it's the yeast the majority of them use).
> 
> IMO, WB06 is better at making *W*it *B*iers than HefeWeizens.


I totally agree with the use of liquids. Dry gives you a result, but the liquids really help to nail the style.


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## carniebrew (31/1/13)

Nick JD said:


> EDIT: I highly recommend using a liquid yeast for a hefe. While WB06 will make a good hefe, 3068 will make a commercial-level hefe (it's the yeast the majority of them use).
> 
> IMO, WB06 is better at making *W*it *B*iers than HefeWeizens.


Fermentis themselves do not do a very good job of letting you know this. The comment on their product page for wb-06 says: "The yeast produces subtle estery and phenol flavour notes typical of wheat beers. The choice of Wheat or Weizen bier fans."

There's no mention of Belgian wit bier specifically. Then if you open the spec sheet there's even less info. But having used it numerous times I certainly agree with Nick....my brews have all come out quite tart....nothing at all like a Franziskaner or Weihenstephan dunkelweizen, which I find much more smooth, malty and sweet. That being said, I love the tartness wb-06 imparts, and prefer that to the flavours in the commercial examples I mentioned....hence I'll continue to use it in my hefes and dunkels when I want that kind of taste. You have to try it yourself to decide.


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## Dan Pratt (3/2/13)

Hi, 

This is what i have come up with>>

Dunkelweizen on BeerSmith 

OG - 1.058
FG - 1.012
ABV - 6%
Color - 32 ebc
IBU - 18

Malts

Munich Malt - 46%
Dark Wheat Malt - 46%
Carawheat Malt - 5%
Chocolate Wheat Malt - 3%

Hops

Halletauer (4.8%AA) - 37g @ 60 mins

Mash Profile - (20lt Braumeister)

Temp 32/52/66/72/78
Time 20/20/30/30/15

Yeast

Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen - 1.3 lt starter

Ferment at 18c

Thoughts?


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## Nick JD (3/2/13)

The 32C for 20 ... I'd make that 43C for 20. Google "ferulic acid rest" and it's influence on phenolic development.


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## manticle (3/2/13)

I'd either shorten the protein rest to 5 mins or drop it altogether.. Yes to ferulic if you like cloves, yes to liquid and yes to including a decoction in there somewhere.

I'd also go 62 for 10, 68 for 40 then 72 for 10. If you're going to step the sacch rest you want to hit both alpha and beta. 66 is at the border for targetting beta which is why it's often used for single infusion. If you mash at 66, just go SI, if you step, make them distinct.


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## Dan Pratt (3/2/13)

Ok, something to think about when considering the mash rest schedule. may just mash in at 32c for a 10min hydration rest, done this with my previous witbier, then crank up the pump and heat to 42 for acid the rest.

Temp 42/62/68/72/78
Time 20/10/40/10/15

As for decoctions, i have read alot about that and seen a few videos, with the BM it wouldn't be an option however anything is possible. Sure would make the malt character of this style more obvious :icon_drool2:


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## Nick JD (3/2/13)

I don't think you need to decoct a dunkel. That's like adding a teaspoon of instant coffee to a short black.


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## manticle (3/2/13)

Not really no but we can disagree on that without the world coming to an end. I think of much of your analogy as comparing EKG to nan's perfume but then I never knew your Nana.

Decoction, in my experience, brings a great character to a beer, including weizens, alts and various belgians.


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## Tony (3/2/13)

Soooooo many people use pale wheat and munich malt

WRONG

you wouldnt use Marius Otter to make a pilsner

Dark wheat and pilsner malt !!!!!!

carawheat and/or choc wheat are great additions as well. 5 to 8% carawheat and choc wheat to colour.

You dont need lots of crystal malts because the low bitterness will give you all the sweetness you need. If you want to use crystal malts, keep the usage at 3% or less IMO.

cheers


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## Nick JD (3/2/13)

manticle said:


> Decoction, in my experience, brings a great character to a beer, including weizens, alts and various belgians.


Waste of time doing a decoction on a dark beer full of heavily caramelised malts.


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## Liam_snorkel (3/2/13)

What about dark wheat and munich in equal parts as a base, or would that be too full on?

The BJCP guidelines mention vienna and munich, just curious what place they could have - smaller additions or as part of base malt?

I'm new to dunkelweizens and the only time I had a crack was using grain which I already had on hand (pale wheat / munich). Will get some dark wheat for sure next time.


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## manticle (3/2/13)

I disagree entirely with the idea that it's a waste of time decocting a dark beer and I don't really see this as being full of heavily crystallised malts.

Adittionally crystal malt and decoctions don't taste the same.

I get your perspective on the issue and I have no desire to convert you nor endlessly argue the point.

I think decoctions bring something ingredients on their own don't. You don't.

For a DW grist I'd be keeping it simple like a hefe - 60/40 - 50/50 pils/wheat but make the wheat dark and throw in some choc wheat or possibly carafa spec if you can't get your hands on the choc wheat. I probably wouldn't put crystal anything in there. Boil a bit longer for extra colour and flavour development before adding first hops.

My mash regime has already been suggested.

Hop 15-20 IBU with tettnanger or hallertau, 3068 yeast.


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## Dan Pratt (16/3/13)

Going for a 60/40 split on the base malts and will be brewing on sunday. I have parenting to do so I set the mash profile for longer than probably required in order to be a dad while making beer too...lol

Malts

Wheat Dark GER - 58%
Munich Light GER - 38%
Wheat Chocolate GER - 2%
CaraWheat GER - 2%
Rice Hulls - 300g ( as the wheat content is 62%) 

Hops

Hallertau Mittelfruh GER - 28g for 60 mins = 15 IBU

1.4 litre starter of Weihenstephen Wyeast 3068

Mash Profile

Temp 40/55/62/68/72/78
Time 20/20/20/60/20/15 

:icon_drool2:


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## AndrewQLD (16/3/13)

Watch the ferulic acid rest times, less is best in my opinion, it can really create an over the top clove character in the beer.
I would mash in at 40 then ramp up to your protein rest pretty much straight away.


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## Dan Pratt (18/3/13)

so i went about making this dunkelweizen and was thinking about how Yob forgot to check his HLT temp the other day and had a mistake when mashing>>>>low and behold i put the malt pipe in and proceeded to add the malt....fark....1kg later i realised the bottom filter/screens were not in yet....argh! pull out the pipe and emptied now yellowy water into esky, malt into seperate container, gave the vessel a rinse, added back yellowy water and malt pipe with screens added malt....saved her


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## Phoney (19/3/13)

I'm putting this one down on the weekend:



Style: Dunkelweizen


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 31.00 l
Post Boil Volume: 29.91 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 l 
Bottling Volume: 23.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 20.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 16.6 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 78.3 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
2.30 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (1.7 SRM) Grain 1 45.5 % 
2.30 kg Wheat Malt, Dark (Weyermann) (7.0 SRM) Grain 2 45.5 % 
0.25 kg Chocolate Wheat (Weyermann) (415.0 SRM) Grain 3 5.0 % 
0.20 kg Carawheat (Weyermann) (50.0 SRM) Grain 4 4.0 % 
25.00 g Mt. Hood [6.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 16.6 IBUs 
1.0 pkg Weihenstephan Weizen (Wyeast Labs #3068) Yeast 6 - 



Single infusion mash @ 66C...


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## Dan Pratt (19/3/13)

phoneyhuh said:


> I'm putting this one down on the weekend:
> 
> 
> Style: Dunkelweizen
> ...



Something I learned today with the use of 3068.....it's a monster! I pitched a 1.3lt starter into 22lt of 1.047 dunkelweizen wort and within a day the krausen bustin out the lid and my blowoff valve/tube in a glass of water was over flowing with krausen/yeast. 

After cleaning it up and headin to work I arrived home to find another full glass with brown krausen overflowing....


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## Phoney (19/3/13)

Yeah I've never had that happen with 3068, but plenty of others do.

What temp is it at?


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## Tony (19/3/13)

Pratty1 said:


> Something I learned today with the use of 3068.....it's a monster! I pitched a 1.3lt starter into 22lt of 1.047 dunkelweizen wort and within a day the krausen bustin out the lid and my blowoff valve/tube in a glass of water was over flowing with krausen/yeast.
> 
> After cleaning it up and headin to work I arrived home to find another full glass with brown krausen overflowing....


I use a 2 liter flask as a blow off bubbler, and usually sit this in a 10 liter pot to catch the overflow when using 3068.

If it doesnt make a mess for you, your doing something wrong


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## Dan Pratt (26/3/13)

from experience, who can tell me if i should cold crash a dunkelweizen before kegging? i was thinking of doing it at 2c for 4-5days while away for easter. now im looking for a clarity but i have toned my CC from 2 weeks to 2-4days as part of the process.

I moved it from primary to secondary on sunday and its at 1.009 gravity which gives me a 5% beer.


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## Tony (26/3/13)

I woulednt say 2 deg is necessary, but 4 or 5 deg for a couple days to settle out the bulk of the yeast and break material out will do.

Then just dump it in the keg and carb it up


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## Dave70 (27/3/13)

manticle said:


> Not really no but we can disagree on that without the world coming to an end. I think of much of your analogy as comparing EKG to nan's perfume but then I never knew your Nana.
> 
> Decoction, in my experience, brings a great character to a beer, including weizens, alts and various belgians.


Don't listen to that other decont hating bloke. He probably microwaves his bread and calls it toast.

I went on about a bock schedule before, but decided on something I could get drinking a little sooner. So I'll be doing a simple 50 /50 pilsner wheat followed by a dunkel.

Would recommend a single decont for for a wheat / dunkel? Where abouts?


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## Dan Pratt (3/4/13)

Ok the dunkelweizen is kegged and bottled. I had It cold crashed at 4c for the Easter weekend while I was away. Had a taste test from the keg and am happy with the turned out, should be bloody tasty in a week when the carbonation is right. Thanks to those who posted to help out with this.


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## Dane_wk (16/4/13)

Hi guys, 

I'm 10 AG brews in and now putting together my first recipe. Love a good dunkel (paulaner and franziskaner some of my faves) so thought I'd go for it.

Read heaps of different threads and recipes and my recipe went from simple to complicated and back... (50/50 wheat/pils + colour > dark wheat + pils + munich + choc wheat + carawheat + bicuit.....)

anyway here's where my recipe is at right now, what do you guys think? Interested in the differences between using carafa and/or chocolate wheat for colour. Also using pils - pils/munich or just munich? 



(Dunkelweizen)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.056 (°P): 13.8
Final Gravity (FG): 1.014 (°P): 3.6
Alcohol (ABV): 5.50 %
Colour (SRM): 18.1 (EBC): 35.7
Bitterness (IBU): 17.8 (Average)

51% Wheat Malt, Dark
22% Munich I
22% Pilsner
2.5% Carafa II malt
2.5% Melanoidin

1.2 g/L Hallertau Mittlefrueh (5.5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)


Single step Infusion at 66°C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 90 Minutes

Fermented at 23°C with Safbrew WB-06


cheers guys


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## Dan Pratt (16/4/13)

Hi Dane,

The recipe looks good.

I would only reccommend you spend that little extra on the Wyeast 3068 as get a better yeast flavour into the final beer, you will be glad you did. 

Dan


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## Dan Pratt (22/4/13)

Dunkelweizen turned out bloody tasty.


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## carniebrew (22/4/13)

Pratty1 said:


> Hi Dane,
> 
> The recipe looks good.
> 
> ...


I have just downed the first of my dunkelweizens done with 3068, after having done quite a few weizen brews with wb-06. To be honest it's a very, very similar flavour...the 3068 dunkel is not quite as tart as the wb-06, but the taste is still very similar. And not at all like the smooth taste of a commercial Weihenstephan wheat beer.

Not a big issue given I like the flavour, but I was expecting something very different in 3068 vs the wb-06. Makes sense now why there's a lot of conjecture out there that wb-06 is a dried version of 3068.

I've tried wb-06 at both 18 and 23 degrees, and this 3068 brew was done at 22.5 (and underpitched). I'll do my next 3068 dunkel at 17 as suggested elsewhere, but I'm not expecting a huge difference now.


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