# 2009 Chinese Hop Quality - A Satisfaction Poll



## PistolPatch (17/12/09)

On Sept 25th, 2009, townsville instigated a bulk buy of hops from China in this thread. At the time of writing, the bulk buy has been completed and distributed. One beer has already been brewed!

Bulk buys take a lot of effort. They originate from someone, usually with too much enthusiasm for their own good, making a proposition. Other brewers back the proposition with cash, labour and/or goodwill. The majority of the time, these bulk buys serve the homebrewer very well. Occassionally they don't. Anyone remember the Blichamn Beer Gun?  

The idea of this thread is for brewers to hand on their results to us other brewers. I did not buy any of these hops as my supply is already adequate. Your feedback here will be very much appreciated by me and many others for any future bulk buys of these hops.The results of this poll will encourage a repeat if it is justified (with even more participants) and save everyone, particularly the instigator/helpers a heap of time and trouble if not.

The only other thing I would ask is that, if you vote in the poll, you acknowledge your vote in this thread with a post that preferably states some reason/s for your vote/s. This gives validity to your answer/s. It should also make it a very quiet thread so make sure you, "Track this topic," under "Options," above and pass on the link when appropriate.

Cheers,
Pat

*Details of the Bulk Buy*

I will ask a moderator to fill these details in as soon as possible.


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## PistolPatch (17/12/09)

Spent quite some time on formulating the poll above and can already see one error...

People who haven't brewed with these hops yet are very innocently going to click on neutral or nothing to the first question and then answer the other two.

Oh well!

If people post sincerely here, I am sure we can get a moderator to either fix this thread or start another with a better scripted poll.


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## FNQ Bunyip (17/12/09)

bloody hell Pat a poll now ,,, I,ve read all 20,000 posts about chinese hops and you want to simplify it NOW...

shit ,


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## PistolPatch (17/12/09)

It's an entirely new concept Ned I know - lol.

Can already see 2 posts that need deleting - yours and mine . Well, it's 3:30am here. Have done my good deed for the day and am going to bed now. Please get Batz to delete this post and your one.

Spot ya!


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## chappo1970 (17/12/09)

Pat,
I would have thought that the poll would have been better served if was done by the 5 varieties purchased as there is going to be good and bad points about the 5 different hops. Also would itnot better to judge those hops by flavour, aroma and bittering qualities as this is what you really want to know as brewer, no? Also all hops are better suited to different styles of ales and lagers so I would have thought that establishing a baseline style for a particular hop also important.

I am personally expecting that 2 maybe 3 of the 5 hops varieties are good to excellent and 2 or 3 of them are complete rubbish to just passable. Taste, flavour and aroma are a very subjective issue and will be based on personal perception, no?

Pat I love the idea and I think it really has merit, I am not trying to pour cold water over it, truly, but perhaps we could think this thru a little more so that those that were in the original BB can better guide those in the next BB. Just my 2c you tell me to rack off Pat cause I know you will still love me in the morning :icon_cheers: 

Cheers

Chap Chap


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## warrenlw63 (17/12/09)

I votes this stupidest thread ever. In defence of Pat I'm sure it will be surpassed soon.  

Warren -


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## Adamt (17/12/09)

Whats stopping a non-involved person voting and skewing results?


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## warrenlw63 (17/12/09)

Admit it Adam... You just did it, didn't you? :lol: 

Warren -


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## Adamt (17/12/09)

Shhhh I don't want everyone to know how slightly above acceptable I think these hops are!


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## warrenlw63 (17/12/09)

Adamt said:


> Shhhh I don't want everyone to know how slightly above acceptable I think these hops are!



Followed by the subsequent 5000 page splinter thread. :blink: 

Warren -


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## QldKev (17/12/09)

I checked Neutral for 'How happy are you with the beer brewed with these hops?' as I havn't brew with them yet.



QldKev


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## staggalee (17/12/09)

warrenlw63 said:


> Followed by the subsequent 5000 page splinter thread. :blink:
> 
> Warren -



yes but sometimes there`s a post about beer
in those 5000 pages of verbal diarrhea. :lol: 

stagga.


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## daemon (17/12/09)

Ticked happy for the hops, I bought 1Kg of Cascade and have already brewed with it (2nd beer is fermenting now). It's not like the US variety, much more subdued flavour and very little aroma. My second batch is a "Summer Ale", lightly hopped and around 25 IBU's to see if it's a good match for a more sedate beer. Happy for the price, if they weren't so cheap it'd be another matter though. Probably not a hop I'd seek out again, the next buy I've nominated my interest in the Marco Polo, but will wait for feedback from others brewing with it.

Happy with the price, packaging needs some slightly stronger bags but I'm sure that will be addressed for the next buy. I'd also like to suggest the option of 950g packs as well, that way the postage costs can be dropped a little bit. At the end of the day 50g isn't going to make a difference in these sorts of quantities.


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## Snow (17/12/09)

Sorry Pat, I usually love your work, but I think this poll is a bit pointless if it doesn't drill down into the satisfaction levels for each individual hop variety. I wasn't in the BB, but have put my name down for the next one. Your poll won't help me choose which hops I want to buy.

Cheers- Snow.


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## Bribie G (17/12/09)

I'm happy with the Saaz as a pleasant hop for international style lagers. I haven't used the Cluster as a stand-alone yet, but I think it will have great promise in Sparkling ales as a sub for POR. However at the moment I am using the Clusrer as a workhorse 90 minute bittering hop in UK bitters etc, sort of the Fuggle you are having when you are not having a Fuggle. I did a Cluster / Northdown - pitching today - and I'll be doing another one today Cluster/Challenger. Very pleased so far.

edit: what the hell is Clusrer? I have tlouble talking now.. Better get off to the doctor .. one two three four fie si seve ay nay te ....


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## Ross (17/12/09)

BribieG said:


> I'm happy with the Saaz as a pleasant hop for international style lagers.



Is the lager in the keg then Bribie?

Cheers Ross


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## Bribie G (17/12/09)

Ross said:


> Is the lager in the keg then Bribie?
> 
> Cheers Ross



No, just a sneaky slurp when transferring to lagering, won't be drinkable till mid January but I'll bring one to BABBs. Of course the proof will be in what is left after the yeast and shyte has been cleaned up during lagering, but based on previous brews at the same stage it's going nicely- and certainly on a par with similar IBU and ABV Aussie lagers. :icon_cheers:


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## MarkBastard (17/12/09)

I picked up my hops from kram last night. I got Saaz and Cascade. Both were the 'normal' green colour of hop pellets. The Cascade was very smelly and smelled like I was expecting (I am no expert). The Saaz was more subdued and also smelled like I was expecting (reminds me of an Asahi clone I have from a BUL place).

Overall I am happy _so far_ with the quality. I vacuum packed them. Also very happy with the vacuum sealer.


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## benno1973 (17/12/09)

OK, just force carbed my all Chinese Cascade RyePA with a carbonator cap, so here's notes on my first tastings. This is just my opinion, totally unbiased - I'm sure that there'll be people out there that disagree, that's up to them. I'm not in this for a bunfight, just hoping to add some useful info back to those that haven't brewed with these yet.

The recipe was a ~7% Rye IPA, 400g of hops spread across 40L, with 100g of that thrown in and steeped at the end of the boil. Full recipe here...

First off, the beer tastes awesome, no issues there. 

Bitterness: A really nice bitterness from these hops. I've used Cascade before to bitter and found them to be harsh/rough, so pleasantly surprised. I didn't go over the top bittering this one - it was somewhere in the 50-55IBU range which is pretty sedate for an IPA, but I didn't want the feeling that a cat had clawed my tongue out, more the bitterness that you'd associate with an English IPA. Something like Sam Smiths India Ale, or Meantime IPA. So check one for bitterness, very happy.

Flavour: Actually, quite nice. A little one dimensional, but I find US Cascade to be that way also. I get candied orange peel flavours, although the malt bill has a fair whack of CaraMunich II which probably accentuates this. The flavour isn't over the top, a little subdued, and could probably use something else to provide a bit more interest. Certainly not the over-the-top flavours that we might get from Amarillo or Nelson Sauvin. Some might say that's a good thing.

Aroma: Almost negligible. Strangely, I would have thought that the amount of hops thrown in would have been enough to really punch out some aroma in this beer, but there's not a lot there. There's some vague citrus notes, but nothing outstanding and the malt bill easily competes with the hops in the aroma. Personally, I like it, but it certainly wasn't what I was aiming for, and if I was looking for a huge aromatic IPA I'd be disappointed.

So the verdict? Well, after all the discussion and passionate debate from either side, I hate to go middle of the road, but I just have to. Great bittering hop, nice subdued flavour (which I might use in conjunction with something else, possibly US Cascade would compliment nicely?) and little aroma. Would I buy it again? Definitely at this price. If it was the same price as all other hops, possibly not, but who can go past $14/kg? As others have said, I'll be using it as a bittering workhorse, and possibly combine it with other hops to make up for the areas that it's lacking in. All in all, I totally agree with Daemon who already posted pretty much the same review at the start of the week!


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## chappo1970 (17/12/09)

:icon_cheers: Cheers Kaiser for taking the time and the notes for that feedback. Very in sightful indeed. 
If we can all make informed and subjective tasting nots likke this then we may all hopeful brew some great beers with these bad boy hops.

Big Kudos Kaiser Soze.


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## MarkBastard (17/12/09)

Thanks heaps Kaiser Soze, great little review.

Looks to me like as you said it's worth at least using these as a bittering addition, then maybe having these and something else for flavour, and then not using these at all for aroma.

Still definitely worth having.


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## daemon (17/12/09)

Interesting to see our feedback nearly matches Kaiser, at least I know it's not just me 

Looking forward to some feedback on the other varieties now.


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## ~MikE (17/12/09)

is there a public poll option on AHB? if the results are getting skewed, can see who's doing it...


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## MarkBastard (17/12/09)

Who's the clown that said they were very unhappy with all 3 including the price?


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## Ross (17/12/09)

The Marco Polo summer Ale is on tap in the shop for any one interested.

Will follow with a review shortly.

Cheers 

Ross
CraftBrewer


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## benno1973 (17/12/09)

Great Ross! 

Bit far for me to travel, but will be very interested in your review!!


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## MarkBastard (18/12/09)

Where's that review Ross? :icon_cheers:


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## QldKev (18/12/09)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Where's that review Ross? :icon_cheers:




Must have been good; he got to pi55ed and forgot to type the review...

QldKev


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## MarkBastard (18/12/09)

Either that or he's succumbed to some rare Chinese disease only communicable via faecal transfer.


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## Steve (19/12/09)

Ross said:


> The Marco Polo summer Ale is on tap in the shop for any one interested.
> 
> Will follow with a review shortly.
> 
> ...



Whats the verdict Ross?
Cheers
Steve


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## geoff_tewierik (19/12/09)

Ross said:


> The Marco Polo summer Ale is on tap in the shop for any one interested.



I managed to avoid Christmas shopping today and used going to the brew shop as the excuse.

Was offered the Marco Polo summer ale as soon as I walked in the door and found it to be very bitter up front (for a 30 odd IBU beer), with a lemon after taste. Can't say I'd go out of my way to have another crack at it.

Also managed a quick snort of Pocket Beers Chinese Cascade beer as well. Definate candied orange peel smell also got some musty/earthiness on the palate, which I wouldn't expect from the US-05.

Had a few other different beers while there, the Italian smoked Amber brought in direct from Italy by one customer was an interesting drop.

Cheers,

GT


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## Bribie G (19/12/09)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Who's the clown that said they were very unhappy with all 3 including the price?





changed his mind


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## winkle (19/12/09)

BribieG said:


> View attachment 34013
> 
> changed his mind



Looks a bit like Snow when he's not molesting infaltables :huh: .
Taste tested some MP#1on the punters over here and it was a ok-ish thumbs up, like a muted cross betwixt simco and challanger, beer itself will need a few more days before going public


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## NickB (19/12/09)

Your beers are always pubic 

:icon_offtopic: Any chance you'll be at home tomorrow? Got a few hours to kill in the arvo while I wait for a f**king plane 

Cheers!


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## winkle (19/12/09)

How early?
I've been on the piss with GG and Sully most of the day :icon_cheers: 
and expect the rest of the evening to end badly :unsure: .
Still bold and the brave etc,,,,,
:beer: 
OK you talked me intoit,


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## NickB (19/12/09)

More importantly, how late? I've got a haircut sometime before three, then a visit to the Apple Store for an iPhone purchase before 6, and then I need to be at the airport by 9PM...............



Cheers

PS: An evening at yours ending badly????!?!?!?!!?!?!?! WTF? If you're not naked in the pool yet, you're not doing it right! 

PPS: Log off AHB

PPPS: I'll be over before the rooster starts going off.... So maybe by 7:30 PM


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