# Which Commercial Kegs Can You Legally Own?



## Jakechan (29/1/09)

Ive pretty much read through all the threads on here about kegs, and from what I can gather the standout kegs with legality issues are those from CUB.

But it seems there are a lot of Tooheys kegs that may be legally purchased? What others?

I dont want to get caught out with something I shouldnt be buying.

Cheers,
Jake


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## white.grant (29/1/09)

If it has a brewery's name on it, it is a problem.


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## buttersd70 (29/1/09)

There are, from memory, some suppliers of legally purchased kegs, some of whom are retailers on this site (but I can't for the life of me remember who exactly...). AFAIK, the legit ones provide an assurance as to the provenance of the kegs in question...ie, they can prove (or at the very least affirm in writing), the legal origin of the goods. But it's something to be _very _cautious about.


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## muckey (29/1/09)

As has been stated, be very wary of commercial 50l kegs and get written evidenc of pedigree.

I beleive most people use the 20litre 'corny' kegs - that's what Ive got. Easy to purchase, easy to get replacement seals and parts for and they work well for single batches.

I beleive that people who may have 50l kegs may not be willing to admit to it as the breweries do own their kegs afaik and they all have serial numbers.


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## gros21 (29/1/09)

i had some that had thooyes like all crossed out with x's i beleace kinda like this
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX


then i've been givin some by a publician as we hired a few full ones he said long as u return my reg and gas bottle he is happy



why is there such a big drama about any ones mentioning a 50l keg

100 people here post pics showing there milk crates holding there bottles, hey im sure some tallie bottles have property of ...... brewary on them


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## Thirsty Boy (29/1/09)

Lets put it this way... if there appears on the side of the keg the name of a brewery (even ones that have in the past been bought out by other breweries), the onus is going to be on you to prove that you bought it legally. In general, current shaped sankey style kegs, that have a brewery name printed or stamped on them, are going to be the property of a brewery unless you have paperwork to prove otherwise.

No brewery name = probably OK
Brewery Name = probably not OK, ask to see the written proof that its legal.

There are old style kegs, casks, etc etc that breweries have divested themselves of... but if its a "normal" keg, be careful if you are worried about staying legal.

TB


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## Jakechan (29/1/09)

I did have some reservation about starting this thread because there is already quite a bit on AHB about them, but nothing specifically stating which kegs may actually be legal. 

Good points about the names. Its hard to imagine a keg with a large brewery name on it being ok.

Soooo....the 80litre keg I saw this morning with NO names on it, and NO numbers, in the old cask shape (wider in the middle) is probably ok by the sounds of it.

Cheers,
Jake


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## white.grant (29/1/09)

Jakechan said:


> I did have some reservation about starting this thread because there is already quite a bit on AHB about them, but nothing specifically stating which kegs may actually be legal.
> 
> Good points about the names. Its hard to imagine a keg with a large brewery name on it being ok.
> 
> ...



You can never be too sure, tell me where you saw it and I'll check it out for you


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## muckey (29/1/09)

Jakechan said:


> I did have some reservation about starting this thread because there is already quite a bit on AHB about them, but nothing specifically stating which kegs may actually be legal.
> 
> Good points about the names. Its hard to imagine a keg with a large brewery name on it being ok.
> 
> ...



sounds like 1 of the old 18 gallon kegs that are no longer in use so could very well be fine. My main concern would be seals etc if you are thinking of using it to keg and dispense your brew. I dont know if replacements are available


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## Jakechan (29/1/09)

Muckey said:


> sounds like 1 of the old 18 gallon kegs that are no longer in use so could very well be fine. My main concern would be seals etc if you are thinking of using it to keg and dispense your brew. I dont know if replacements are available


Thinking more of chopping the top off for a kettle or mash tun.


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## white.grant (29/1/09)

They have a nice name, Roundlet.


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## muckey (29/1/09)

Jakechan said:


> Thinking more of chopping the top off for a kettle or mash tun.



Ahh seals are not a problem then - from what I hear they are the perfect size for a kettle but need insulating for a mash tun


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## quantocks (29/1/09)

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=19570

NNL Brewing were the ones selling legal kegs here not so long ago.


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## unterberg (29/1/09)

You can get the 50l ones used for 149 Dollar here.
No affiliations and havent had anything from them yet.


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## quantocks (29/1/09)

Unterberg said:


> You can get the 50l ones used for 149 Dollar here.
> No affiliations and havent had anything from them yet.



there are no prices under "Kegs" on that site except this:



> This is a 20L commercial keg. We can custom make a range of 4 different sizes. 20L, 30L. 40L, 50L. The minimum order quantity is 10 units. We can also supply a range of different spear types to suit different couplers. Call us for more details.



which I highly doubt someone is going to order 10 50l kegs a go custom made.


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## Daniel.lear (29/1/09)

Just a wee rant with absolutely no legal background,

If i bought a heap of housebricks, with my name and 'always reamins the property of' moulded and kilned on them and sold them by the pallet load at auction, then some years later went along to a heap of dudes houses and found that thier house was made of bricks with my name on them, i would be within my rights to gho along and chisel them out of thier wall?? i doubt it. 

What is the staute of limitations on these sorts of things? 

I certainly dont condone or encourage anyone to start going to back of thier local and stealing kegs, quite the opposite. However one must ask the question.

Leary


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## schooey (29/1/09)

Leary said:


> ....and sold them.....



You killed your rant with those three words....

Breweries don't sell their kegs to the people they authorise to use them, they lend them. That's why they can legally place the statement "Always remains the property of' on them. Chep and BOC do a similar thing, except they 'rent' their pallets and bottles. So yeah, if you 'rented' your bricks you could do that, but I doubt you'd get too many customers...


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## white.grant (29/1/09)

Leary said:


> Just a wee rant with absolutely no legal background,
> 
> If i bought a heap of housebricks, with my name and 'always reamins the property of' moulded and kilned on them and sold them by the pallet load at auction, then some years later went along to a heap of dudes houses and found that thier house was made of bricks with my name on them, i would be within my rights to gho along and chisel them out of thier wall?? i doubt it.
> 
> ...



No need to rant Leary. There is no limitation on theft, once something is stolen it remains stolen until returned to its rightful owner. Unless its a country or something big like that.

cheers

grant 

edit: watching the tennis too slow for schooey


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## himzol (29/1/09)

> which I highly doubt someone is going to order 10 50l kegs a go custom made.



I've seen planty of bulk buys on this forum, why couldn't you do the same with this.


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## real_beer (29/1/09)

Muckey said:


> sounds like 1 of the old 18 gallon kegs that are no longer in use so could very well be fine. My main concern would be seals etc if you are thinking of using it to keg and dispense your brew. I dont know if replacements are available



About 4 years ago I bought one 18 gallon, two 10 gallon, and two 5 gallon old style XXXX kegs over a period of 12 months from the local recycle tip at Redland Bay in QLD.

I had a discussion with the guy who had the recycling contract from the local council about the legality of ownership and he said that their standing was anything that hits the tipface lost any rights of ownership. If the breweries wanted the kegs back they would have to pay for them, the same applied to shopping trolleys from supermarkets that the council collected from parks and roadsides, if they wanted them back they had to pay a hefty fee. Most of them end up in containers shipped off for recyling in China.

I love the old kegs from my cellarman days and think it's a crime something so well made and beautiful should be scraped, anyway as I have all the gear for these kegs, spears and fittings etc I phoned up Castlemaine Perkins and asked if they had any of the plastic bungs left over I could buy. The guy was very understanding but said one of the main reasons breweries go after their kegs is in case people will use them for something there not designed for and cause injury through misuse. As a matter of fact when learning the cellar work with the old style kegs it was reinforced into people that a number of people had been killed over the years by releasing pressure on the spear with their head over the top :blink: . 

I have bought all my kegs from recycle tips and just keep the dockets, it's easy to prove that these places sell them to the general public and if you end up in court, if you can look the Judge in the eye and tell them you didn't steal them (or recieve them illegally) you might lose the kegs but you should't get in any trouble. I think the main thing to remember is if you ever want to sell any of your kegs, do it through personal contact with people you know, don't advertise to the whole world because the breweries do keep a lookout.


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## PostModern (29/1/09)

Recently bought a mixed trailer load of these:



and these:


quite legally.


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## unterberg (29/1/09)

quantocks said:


> there are no prices under "Kegs" on that site except this:
> 
> 
> 
> which I highly doubt someone is going to order 10 50l kegs a go custom made.



It says quite big on their main page:


> SPECIAL NOW ON 50L Stainless Steel Kegs - ONLY $149!!!
> We are now running a special on 50L stainless steel commercial kegs
> 
> 
> ...



Since they seem fairly new its probably a shame to do things to them


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## Thunderlips (29/1/09)

quantocks said:


> which I highly doubt someone is going to order 10 50l kegs a go custom made.


There's no mention of needing to buy 10 on the front page, where the $149 50L keg is shown.
He's got a few pallets worth. I'm sure he'd let you buy just one.
I'd probably get one myself if I didn't already have a 40 odd litre ball lock keg.

For the others mentioned under the "kegs" section, he probably orders them in so needs certain numbers to make it worth his while.


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## Thirsty Boy (30/1/09)

real_beer said:


> About 4 years ago I bought one 18 gallon, two 10 gallon, and two 5 gallon old style XXXX kegs over a period of 12 months from the local recycle tip at Redland Bay in QLD.
> 
> I had a discussion with the guy who had the recycling contract from the local council about the legality of ownership and he said that their standing was anything that hits the tipface lost any rights of ownership. If the breweries wanted the kegs back they would have to pay for them, the same applied to shopping trolleys from supermarkets that the council collected from parks and roadsides, if they wanted them back they had to pay a hefty fee. Most of them end up in containers shipped off for recyling in China.
> 
> ...



Yeah... big words from a guy who patently has very little idea of his actual legal rights - he takes brand name kegs that are the property of a brewery, and then sells them; he is a receiver and seller of stolen goods. Big talk.... and if a brewery rep showed up at his tip, he would meekly hand over every last keg and hope to christ they didn't decide to press charges.

People can tit fart around with all the excuses in the world that they like - (with _very_ occasional exceptions) _ branded current style_ kegs, belong to a brewery. Thats it. The kegs belong to the brewery. They are not yours, they are someone else's, and you either stole them or purchased stolen property. 

If you are happy with that... fine. I couldn't care less if you have a keg or two in your shed that is technically someone else's. But don't kid yourself that its all above board, and maybe have a think before you advise other people about it... its not, you can have, and if the brewery is having a bad week, just might have; legal action taken against you.


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## dr K (30/1/09)

Kegs are owned by the brewery, simple.
There are still a lot of kegs circulating stamped "Powers", now Powers may well have been bought out 20 years or more ago buth their new owners bought the kegs as well.
If you nick a keg and use it for your own beer dispense then you might argue that you borrowed it, stupid I know but not even a fraction as stupid as vandalising, destroying the keg by cuttin the top off to make a boiler or whatever. Bad shit. Bad for you if you get caught and bad for the HB community as a whole.
In this case Nike got it wrong...

K


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## Carbonator (30/1/09)

Thirsty Boy said:


> if a brewery rep showed up at his tip, he would meekly hand over every last keg and hope to christ they didn't decide to press charges.



This a very "hot" topic.

But when are brewery "Reps" Police?


If you meet one, hide your kegs till the brewery police have inspected your premises!

Then ask yourself, "Who have I told about these kegs and do they have access to my IP address to find out who I am via my ISP?"


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## hoohaaman (30/1/09)

Hmmm again people rationalizing why they are not thief's ,but in possession of stolen goods!


If someone stole from your house,all your kegs,beer glasses ect ,taps co2 lines.......would you be happy.
Would you ring the coppers,claim insurance?

I would,but I'm honest.I don't own stolen goods


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## hoohaaman (30/1/09)

Carbonator said:


> This a very "hot" topic.
> 
> But when are brewery "Reps" Police?
> 
> ...



This is why we all pay more form a carton of milk to a loaf of bread.
Imagine if the petrol companies shipped in a popular container.

You just dont get it.It is not your property.


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## drsmurto (30/1/09)

So the one i have that has DAB stamped on the side of it is not legal?


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## Hashie (30/1/09)

And what about corny kegs? All mine have property of Pepsi stamped on the side of them. Yet I bought them Legally (?) from the states via Usedequip.

Are these also stolen goods?


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## clean brewer (30/1/09)

Hashie said:


> And what about corny kegs? All mine have property of Pepsi stamped on the side of them. Yet I bought them Legally (?) from the states via Usedequip.
> 
> Are these also stolen goods?



Mine say the same..


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## quantocks (30/1/09)

Hashie said:


> And what about corny kegs? All mine have property of Pepsi stamped on the side of them. Yet I bought them Legally (?) from the states via Usedequip.
> 
> Are these also stolen goods?



you'll find ever since drink companies went to the better/cheaper Bag in a Box method they sold all their old postmix kegs. So they are legally owned.


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## Hashie (30/1/09)

I agree, they are legally owned. However they still have "property of Pepsi Co." stamped on the side.

It would appear that most of the debate in this thread and others, is that if a keg has "property of..." stamped on it, that it cannot be legally owned by any other than it's original owner.

I'm failing to see this as a legal stand point.


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## PostModern (30/1/09)

Breweries don't sell their kegs to the general public. If they do sell kegs off to dealers, they have the brewery name on the chimes obliterated, x-out or whatever, and there are documents to show that they have been sold. My understanding tho, is that kegs that are no longer serviceable are scrapped, crushed and rendered useless simply to avoid a situation of not knowing who owns the vessel. They have millions and millions of dollars tied up in their hardware, and have no need to sell functioning kegs. Hence, any current style keg in this country, with a local brewery name on the chime or stamped on the top, is still the property of the brewery.


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## peas_and_corn (30/1/09)

Well, it's pretty hard to take out the etching on a corny- and it's common knowledge that they have all been sold- nobody uses them for postmix any more. However, it is common knowledge that breweries do not sell their kegs.


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## brettprevans (30/1/09)

quantocks said:


> you'll find ever since drink companies went to the better/cheaper Bag in a Box method they sold all their old postmix kegs. So they are legally owned.


Quants is right on the money.

You could own a CUB/Tooheys *IF* CUB/Tooheys were willing to sell it to you. But they wont as thye still use kegs and would recycle it as scrape probably rather than resell it to the public. 

Once a brewery goes out of business it sells everything and you can then buy it legally. Paperwork is the key.

Pepsi and coke sell their kegs readily as they have moved to the syrup method ages ago so they dont need kegs. 

So if your planning on buying a brewery keg then get the paperwork saying its legal, otherwise odds are its illegal. simple really.

EDIT:
PoMo and P&C are also spot on and beat me to it


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## SpillsMostOfIt (30/1/09)

I propose a test.

Call CUB and/or Lion Nathan and tell them that you are in possession of some of their kegs and have cut them up to make homebrew kettles with. Give them your name, address and all relevant contact details and ask them if they want the bits back that you don't need any more (the spears, etc.) as they appear to be worth something, particularly given that you were careful to only acquire nice, shiny kegs.

See what happens...

 <_<


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## Carbonator (30/1/09)

peas_and_corn said:


> it's common knowledge that they have all been sold- nobody uses them for postmix any more.



Actually incorrect, I saw a ute belonging to a soft drink vendor in Brisbane on 31-12-2008 at 10:25 AM at South Bank with some post mix cornies. No one was near it, but I was strong and kept walking.


The ute is in this picture I took from the Wheel.
You can't see the kegs, they were behind the water tank, but they were there;


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## enoch (30/1/09)

hoohaaman said:


> I would,but I'm honest.I don't own stolen goods


Strictly nobody "owns" stolen goods apart from the person they were stolen from. People receive stolen goods.


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## Fents (30/1/09)

anyone got any carlton kegs for sale? hahahahahahaha


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## real_beer (30/1/09)

real_beer said:


> About 4 years ago I bought one 18 gallon, two 10 gallon, and two 5 gallon old style XXXX kegs over a period of 12 months from the local recycle tip at Redland Bay in QLD.
> 
> I had a discussion with the guy who had the recycling contract from the local council about the legality of ownership and he said that their standing was anything that hits the tipface lost any rights of ownership. If the breweries wanted the kegs back they would have to pay for them, the same applied to shopping trolleys from supermarkets that the council collected from parks and roadsides, if they wanted them back they had to pay a hefty fee. Most of them end up in containers shipped off for recyling in China.



Let me clear this up the (their standing) I'm talking about is what the local council, a government body has as a policy for its recycling facilities. The breweries have apparently argued their point through the court system without success. The people who run these facilities for the council have to follow a set of rules laid down by law on what they can and can't sell, they're still doing it, the recycling tips in Perth are doing it, your local recycling tip is probably doing it. 

Does that make me a thief? Not according to local councils I've talked to. Is it unfair to the breweries? Yes. What's the answer? At the pub I worked at we unloaded all the kegs logged the serial numbers and kept all the empties under lock and key until the breweries collected them on the next delivery. When someone hired a keg we would deliver it to the address and set it up with a hefty deposit on the equipment which had to be returned in good condition. We ended up not hiring kegs out after a while because of all the trouble people caused with call outs from playing with the gas & the fact we could work out cheaper prices for them on bulk buys of carton beers.

HOW MANY KEGS DO YOU THINK WE LOST? 00000000000000000000000.

The hotels and pubs should be accountable for every keg that's delivered to their premises and should have to pay the cost of replacement when lost. I've driven past so many places where empty kegs are sitting in areas open to the public it's just not funny. How many kegs do you think they'd lose if they had to reimburse the breweries for everyone they lost? Not many, they'd soon find a way to keep them safe.

Another point to consider: 
A ship's in trouble 20 nautical miles out to sea of Sydney, its carrying 20,000 kegs of Australian mega swill from the two major breweries, the crew abandon ship fearing it's sinking. The captain of another ship nearby sends an emergency crew to claim salvage rights and they then safely bring it into Sydney Harbour. Who do you think owns the ship, the beer, and the kegs which clearly have Property of CUB, XXXX, etc stamped all over them? Well according to most people on this site it's obviously not the captain who salvaged the ship.

Before I bought the kegs in my first post I checked whether it was okay (council policy). About 12 months later after building up the keg collection and buying old fittings to use with them from local pubs I phoned the Castlemaine Brewery at Milton about the bungs who said they couldn't help and admitted it was a grey area and an ongoing dispute with councils. He was very understanding and said he had to obviosly follow his companies viewpoint stating that if they see one of their kegs advertised for sale in the papers they try to reclaim them. We also had a discussion about the home brew use of the old kegs and this is when he told me their standpoint on safety concerns. Did he ask for my address and phone number? No. Did he call me a theif? No. He just said it's a grey area where councils and salvage is concerned.

Have I had opportunity to steal a keg from a pub? Hundreds. Have I? No. Would I? No.

Did I buy kegs from a local government authority who claimed them as salvage? You bet.

People can't steal safely stored kegs if there's a tracking system in place that notes which pubs have what keg and makes them accountable. Some newer kegs overseas have identification devices built into the head for easy tracking, a bit like chipping your pouch, which will make things easier for the breweries to keep control.

One last point, I've never bought a keg from anywhere else other than the tip and one salvage yard. No dodgy mate who works at a pub, or a garage sale, flea market etc. I'm not the least bit guilty of how I aquirred these kegs no matter how many people may disagree.

Cheers


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## white.grant (30/1/09)

I work in local government and understand the rules so would like to give you a tip, :icon_cheers: 

Council waste disposal centres receive many interesting items -- i've seen jewellery boxes, safes, ATMS, cars, and yes even kegs dropped off and reclaimed by their rightful owners. Council's will usually contact the police if items are suspicious. A lot of stolen property is reclaimed in this way.

You cannot salvage items from the tip face, Salvage is only really relevant to freight transport and logistics (mining and drilling equipment too if its big enough). If you salvage something you are obliged to give it back to the rightful owner who will compensate you for your efforts. If you do not give it back, it is not salvaged, it is stolen. There was an incident recently when BMW motorbikes (amongst other things) were washed ashore in Spain after a ship ran aground. BMW and their insurers are actively pursuing these assets.


cheers

grant


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## quantocks (30/1/09)

very good point Grant. I always figured 'finders keepers' though, but I do see the problem here. Years back I found a bicycle on my way home, It could of been stolen for all I knew and I handed it in to the cop shop. A few months later I got a call to come and collect my shiny new bike as no one had claimed it.

could you use this same logic with a keg? what if after a few months CUB doesn't call the police station asking about the kegs where abouts and they call to give it to you? is it then yours to keep?

if not, why can I keep someones bike but not someones keg?







hundreds of people took stuff that was just washed up on the beach, who was to know who owned what? but now the Police are saying if they do not declare they took stuff it is theft.

I would of thought had you of found something in the rubbish that someone has thrown out, you could keep it. I guess a lot of people think the same.


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## peas_and_corn (30/1/09)

Are councils governments or local authorities? I thought it was the latter.


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## Thirsty Boy (30/1/09)

some people are missing a vital part of the argument - the word "current"

corny kegs are not the "current" container for the companies who have their name stamped on them - The castlemaine perkins kegs you got from the tip, are not current style kegs - po-mo's trailer load of casks are not current style kegs. The breweries have sold or relinquished ownership of that property.

They DO NOT sell *current* style kegs and thus they maintain their ownership and there is no confusion... they never sold or gave it to anyone, so no matter where you got it, it belongs to them.


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## KHB (30/1/09)

quantocks said:


> very good point Grant. I always figured 'finders keepers' though, but I do see the problem here. Years back I found a bicycle on my way home, It could of been stolen for all I knew and I handed it in to the cop shop. A few months later I got a call to come and collect my shiny new bike as no one had claimed it.
> 
> could you use this same logic with a keg? what if after a few months CUB doesn't call the police station asking about the kegs where abouts and they call to give it to you? is it then yours to keep?
> 
> ...



Sweet score!!!

KHB


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## Jakechan (30/1/09)

Those kegs must be full of VB


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## staggalee (30/1/09)

What a crock the whole thread is, some even taking the opportunity to grandstand with posts to rival The Declaration Of Independence.
Can anyone actually point us to or name an incident where someone was prosecuted for the possesion of a beer keg? :lol: 
This would be a joke if it wasn`t so funny, it comes up every few months but no one actually knows of anyone being "caught" for such a henious crime.
Strange, isn`t it? :lol: 

stagga.


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## real_beer (30/1/09)

Grantw said:


> I work in local government and understand the rules so would like to give you a tip, :icon_cheers:
> 
> Council waste disposal centres receive many interesting items -- i've seen jewellery boxes, safes, ATMS, cars, and yes even kegs dropped off and reclaimed by their rightful owners. Council's will usually contact the police if items are suspicious. A lot of stolen property is reclaimed in this way.
> 
> ...



The public aren't allowed on the tip face all goods for sale are collected and put in a fenced compound and sold off on certain days. Here's the listing from the councils A-Z pdf guide on page 32:

Recycleworld is a 'trash and treasure' facility at the
Redland Bay waste transfer station on German Church
Rd, Redland Bay. You can pick up fantastic pre-loved
items such as books, bicycles, gardening books, bric-
a-brac, furniture, toys and spare parts. 
Opening hours are 8.00am4.00pm on Thursdays to Sundays.

If you have an unwanted item in good condition
that you think can be used by someone else,
consider donating it to Recycleworld.
There are drop-off areas at Birkdale and
Redland Bay waste transfer stations.

Also whoever claims an abandoned ship on "THE HIGH SEAS OUTSIDE ANY COUNTRIES TERRITORIAL WATERS" owns the ship and anything on it, the people who lost it have to deal with the insurance people as do the people who have goods being shipped on it. The new owner would probably strike deals with all parties concerned but the point is the shipping company he represents is the new owner.

If the local council in say Redland Bay had grates of Motorcycles washing up on Stradbroke Island and they had to clean up the mess and debris, the company who claimed them as their property would be issued with a huge cleanup bill for their time and effort. If no one claimed them they would become the property of the council to dispose of how they determine. I never said collecting kegs washed up on the beach or scavenging on a tipface was legal for an individual. I did however say that I purchased them from a council recycling facility with assurance that they could sell them to me.
If it was illegal for the councils to sell these kegs I'm sure the breweries would have enforced the law on them through the court system. I think you'd find that the breweries could have the kegs back for a fee (probably scrap value) but they wont pay it because all they'ed probaly do with it is scrap it themselves. If they protected their investment better they wouldn't end up at the tip in the first place. 

I can understand councils being sympathetic to individual victims of theft, or even a multi national company the victim of large scale theft (pallets of goods stolen from a warehouse), but they don't seem sympathetic to multi national companies that have had the same problems for years trickling through ther system.

In my previous post I mentioned supermarket shopping trolleys, you see them eveywhere, creeks, parks, littering the streets for weeks on end. After the council pays someone to collect them and take them to the tip the supermarkets want them handed back over for free.

Over the last 4 to 5 years I've seen dozens of kegs for sale at these recycle tips and probably most were originally stolen with a few exceptions from demolished hotels. The fact is if I buy one and get charged with recieving stolen goods, the council would have to be charged for selling it to me. Think about it, the laws are designed by local councils to protect local councils. If the breweries wont pay a handling fee to get the kegs back the council gets it back from elsewhere, a customer or a scrap merchant. To a brewery a keg is an asset, to a council it's a rubbish problem to get rid of as quick as they can.

I promise not to say any more on this matter, next time your going past a recycle tip in your area ask them if they ever get an beer kegs in and how much they sell them for. If they do you can always notify the authorities and have them arrested. :unsure:


----------



## staggalee (30/1/09)

real_beer said:


> The public aren't allowed on the tip face all goods for sale are collected and put in a fenced compound and sold off on certain days. Here's the listing from the councils A-Z pdf guide on page 32:
> 
> Recycleworld is a 'trash and treasure' facility at the
> Redland Bay waste transfer station on German Church
> ...



Amen.

stagga.


----------



## peas_and_corn (30/1/09)

The laws are passed by the state governments, not the councils.


----------



## schooey (30/1/09)

staggalee said:


> What a crock the whole thread is, some even taking the opportunity to grandstand with posts to rival The Declaration Of Independence.
> Can anyone actually point us to or name an incident where someone was prosecuted for the possesion of a beer keg? :lol:
> This would be a joke if it wasn`t so funny, it comes up every few months but no one actually knows of anyone being "caught" for such a henious crime.
> Strange, isn`t it? :lol:
> ...



+1 for that

Didn't SJW call the keg collector from Carlton once upon a time, because of an ebay item or something some such, and told him all about AHB? IIRC at the time there was a minor uproar about it but I haven't heard of him contacting anyone as yeat..... :unsure:


----------



## white.grant (30/1/09)

real_beer said:


> The public aren't allowed on the tip face all goods for sale are collected and put in a fenced compound and sold off on certain days. Here's the listing from the councils A-Z pdf guide on page 32:
> 
> Recycleworld is a 'trash and treasure' facility at the
> Redland Bay waste transfer station on German Church
> ...




No worries mate, I was just stating my own personal position informed by a passing acquaintance with the legislation in NSW and that impacting upon Commonwealth waters plus the relevant case law as it applies to basic salvage from scrap yards. 

You're still free to make your own decisions about things.


Good luck.

grant


----------



## staggalee (30/1/09)

peas_and_corn said:


> The laws are passed by the state governments, not the councils.



Who cares about the friggin law?
Do you know of a single case of someone busted for illegal possesion of a beer keg? 
Yes or no?

stagga.


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## clean brewer (30/1/09)

staggalee said:


> Who cares about the friggin law?
> Do you know of a single case of someone busted for illegal possesion of a beer keg?
> Yes or no?
> 
> stagga.



I Googled it but come up with nothing.. :unsure:


----------



## Thunderlips (30/1/09)

Grantw said:


> There was an incident recently when BMW motorbikes (amongst other things) were washed ashore in Spain after a ship ran aground. BMW and their insurers are actively pursuing these assets.


I think you mean England?
Happened last year.

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/uk/...en_British_ship


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## staggalee (30/1/09)

clean brewer said:


> I Googled it but come up with nothing.. :unsure:



not even under "atrocious felonies" ?

stagga.


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## quantocks (30/1/09)

stealing a beer keg and stealing a milk crate are the same thing. Do you know of anyone being busted for having owned a milk crate?


----------



## peas_and_corn (30/1/09)

staggalee said:


> Who cares about the friggin law?
> Do you know of a single case of someone busted for illegal possesion of a beer keg?
> Yes or no?
> 
> stagga.



Man fined 1000 pounds


----------



## Frank (30/1/09)

Slightly OT, but,
Adelaide had a problem last year with copper and brass being stolen from the arms on park benches and name plates off buildings to be cashed in for the $, when the rate was high. There was also a case of a brass lions head being stolen from an Eastern suburb house and cashed in as scrap. 
In any industry, especially scrap, there are dodgy operators who will give you a small amount of cash for stolen goods, and sell it to the next person for more than they paid for it. It may be a bit different if Adelaide as we receive cash for empty bottles, so the whole recycling scene is probably a bit bigger, and more dodgy.
Therefore even though someone pays for it, does not make it legal. Knowingly receiving stolen goods is against the law, and ignorance is no excuse.
I *do *have souvenirs in my house but no kegs that are not 18L Cornie's. :icon_cheers: 
Therefore can't answer definitively to which kegs to own legally. 
But to contradict myself slightly, I did walk pass a shop in Adelaide that had a 50L poly sankey keg in the window as part of a display. I am going to check what the brand was and make them an offer. These are not in circulation in Australia, so does that make it OK???


----------



## white.grant (30/1/09)

quantocks said:


> stealing a beer keg and stealing a milk crate are the same thing. Do you know of anyone being busted for having owned a milk crate?



Actually a friend of mine was done for milk crates (unlawful holding?"??) after he got pulled over for an unregistered vehicle, and was then charged with unlicensed driving. He noted proudly at the time that he was sober -- though he claimed to have never seen the milk crates before in his life *(your honour). Perhaps cause he was stoned?

Anyway, for the record He had 27 dairy farmers crates in the back of his bedford van - they were used as staging for the band. He was the drummer btw. The crates were confiscated and he had to find more the next day. As he told it, after he reclaimed his vehicle with his long expired license and registration, he just loaded the confiscated crates back in, (these are mine too mate!) and drove off. But that's just drummer talk.....

cheers

grant


----------



## real_beer (30/1/09)

staggalee said:


> What a crock the whole thread is, some even taking the opportunity to grandstand with posts to rival The Declaration Of Independence.
> Can anyone actually point us to or name an incident where someone was prosecuted for the possesion of a beer keg? :lol:
> This would be a joke if it wasn`t so funny, it comes up every few months but no one actually knows of anyone being "caught" for such a henious crime.
> Strange, isn`t it? :lol:
> ...


Hi everyone,

I totally agree, and that real_beer guys a total f*ckwit, don't worry though I've just caught up with him and cut his index fingers off, no more posts off him for a while i think. ogewgog msg;kp (translates as "oh shit that hurt").  .

Cheers :icon_cheers:


----------



## Gerard_M (31/1/09)

quantocks said:


> stealing a beer keg and stealing a milk crate are the same thing. Do you know of anyone being busted for having owned a milk crate?



Yes. Back in 2006/2007 a couple of those Asian supermarkets that sell everything in Rowe Street Eastwood got busted for milk crates. They were using them as shop fittings! 
When I was still running pubs a couple of people got busted pinching kegs that were on the back dock. The only reason they got busted was because they jumped the fence to do so. As they lobbed them back over the fence they were met by the cops. Under OH&S I reckon the pubs that don't lock away the empty kegs are in the wrong for leaving a pressurised vessel unsecured. 100kpa will take out an eye...ask ya mum!

Now if you ever find a keg from a micro, make the effort to return it to its owner. I have had a couple returned & the efforts of those that did return it did not go unrewarded.

Cheers
Gerard

oh yeah, glasses on an AHB Pub Crawl are fair game, just don't carry them along in a milk crate!


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## Jakechan (31/1/09)

Gerard_M said:


> Now if you ever find a keg from a micro, make the effort to return it to its owner. I have had a couple returned & the efforts of those that did return it did not go unrewarded.


Umm....Tooheys arent considered a micro are they?


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## Carbonator (31/1/09)

Boston said:


> It may be a bit different if Adelaide as we receive cash for empty bottles



Also OT

ALLY CANS TOO

The point of your remark?

Scenario I haven't tried yet - So if I fill a shipping container with squashed ally cans that are worth 0.5C in NSW (at POS scrap metal yards) and drive to SA to claim 5C per can and make $35,000 @ 20 times per year after fuel and driver wages, is that stolen property or a crime? The cans used to say "Not to be refilled" and had the owners name printed on them before I got them. I can't prove where I got them from either.

As for the milk crates and kegs, it's sad when someone has to score promotional notches on "their" belt by going the extra mile (in being a hero for a corporation they are getting ripped off by themselves) and dobbing you in for something they don't have a warrant for!


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## Thirsty Boy (31/1/09)

staggalee said:


> Who cares about the friggin law?
> Do you know of a single case of someone busted for illegal possesion of a beer keg?
> Yes or no?
> 
> stagga.



Why yes I do - when I was working as a manager in the keg plant at CUB Abbotsford, we had incentives in place for employees to report accumulations of unreturned kegs OR cases where they believed kegs had been stolen. They are still in place.

Usually a couple/few times a year the brewery would take legal action against some twat who had either collected a heap of them for some stupid purpose - or if they fond someone re-selling the kegs...

-If you have a half a dozen of the things sitting in your paddock with logs on the tops as horse jumps.. a rep will come to call and basically demand them back
-If you have cut the things up - you might well get a letter from a lawyer as well 'cause you destroyed them and didn't just inconvenience the brewery by "borrowing" them. From there it would be a matter to sort out between lawyers. Charges would virtually never be pressed unless it was a significant number of kegs
-If you are selling them - they will very likely have you charged just to make a point.

Probably happens a few times every year.

So stagga, your ignorance of it happening is just that... your ignorance. Doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.

No one, including me gives a fat rats if a few homebrewers knock off a few kegs (well, maybe the brewery does) I just don't think its fair or right to tell people who ARE interested in doing the right thing and acting legally, that having one of these kegs is OK. It's not.

And yes... if I saw a tip / re-cycle yard selling kegs, I would report it. One or two in a homebrewer's shed.... so what. Some bastard trying to profit from it. Different. And I can assure you, the brewery would get their kegs back - and they wouldn't be paying for them.


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## schooey (31/1/09)

Carbonator said:


> Scenario I haven't tried yet - So if I fill a shipping container with squashed ally cans that are worth 0.5C in NSW (at POS scrap metal yards) and drive to SA to claim 5C per can and make $35,000 @ 20 times per year after fuel and driver wages....




You ignore the cost of gathering the cans, squashing them and packing them yatter yatter...


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## FreemanDC (31/1/09)

Did anyone answer the corney part ?

Where can i get legal kegs ?

Finders keepers ? no ?
...............................................


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## staggalee (31/1/09)

peas_and_corn said:


> Man fined 1000 pounds


Good try  .........but doesn`t count.
He was a dealer making a career out of it.
We`re talking about John Doe and one keg for homebrewing.

stagga.


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## loftboy (31/1/09)

schooey said:


> You ignore the cost of gathering the cans, squashing them and packing them yatter yatter...



:icon_offtopic: 

Isn't there a Seinfeld episode where Kramer tried to make a few extra bucks, by taking a load of bottles for recycling into an adjacent state using Newman's postal van ?

Classic show that


----------



## loftboy (31/1/09)

Freemasha said:


> Where can i get legal kegs ?



Try NNL Brewing - http://shop.nnlbeersupplies.com.au/index.p...amp;cPath=69_89


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## jeddog (31/1/09)

I just scored 3 of these 60Lt beauty at no cost



They have no stamp, name or label on them....nothing at all

i think i'll call them mine

one for a mash tun 
one for a HLT 
and 
one for a kettle


nice...


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## SpillsMostOfIt (31/1/09)

staggalee said:


> Who cares about the friggin law?
> Do you know of a single case of someone busted for illegal possesion of a beer keg?
> Yes or no?
> 
> stagga.



I wouldn't mind a new kettle and I am too lazy to steal a keg, cut the top off and drill a hole for a tap, so wouldn't it just be easier to thieve a converted keg from some other homebrewer? I mean, they're not going to dob me in, are they?

<_<


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## Frank (31/1/09)

Carbonator said:


> Scenario I haven't tried yet - So if I fill a shipping container with squashed ally cans that are worth 0.5C in NSW (at POS scrap metal yards) and drive to SA to claim 5C per can and make $35,000 @ 20 times per year after fuel and driver wages, is that stolen property or a crime? The cans used to say "Not to be refilled" and had the owners name printed on them before I got them. I can't prove where I got them from either.


They are actually worth 10c per can/bottle now (been in for a few months, but not printed on labels yet), so you have doubled your money. Load up the truck, and head for the border. I think quite a few Victorians trek over to Mt Gambier SA to do this already. h34r:


----------



## np1962 (31/1/09)

Boston said:


> But to contradict myself slightly, I did walk pass a shop in Adelaide that had a 50L poly sankey keg in the window as part of a display. I am going to check what the brand was and make them an offer. These are not in circulation in Australia, so does that make it OK???



Actually, At least one Barossa Micro is distributing their wares in these kegs.

Nige


----------



## Carbonator (31/1/09)

jeddog said:


> I just scored 3 of these 60Lt beauty at no cost
> View attachment 24399
> 
> They have no stamp, name or label on them....nothing at all
> ...



Yes, very nice!



Boston said:


> They are actually worth 10c per can/bottle now (been in for a few months, but not printed on labels yet), so you have doubled your money. Load up the truck, and head for the border. I think quite a few Victorians trek over to Mt Gambier SA to do this already. h34r:


 
10 Cents, no that's tempting!


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## Gerard_M (31/1/09)

SpillsMostOfIt said:


> I wouldn't mind a new kettle and I am too lazy to steal a keg, cut the top off and drill a hole for a tap, so wouldn't it just be easier to thieve a converted keg from some other homebrewer? I mean, they're not going to dob me in, are they?
> 
> <_<


 GO FOR IT! :icon_cheers: 

" got a taxi home, thought the guy was a shit driver & he charged too much. Thumped him, & kept his cab as the cab company has heaps of them anyway :beerbang: "

same sort of thinking
cheers
Gerard 

*There is always a certain amount of piss taking in my posts, it is up to you to figure out how much!


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## staggalee (31/1/09)

you can use the cab for midnite raids behind pubs for empty kegs. :beerbang: 
don`t tell anyone tho.

stagga.


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## Gerard_M (31/1/09)

staggalee said:


> you can use the cab for midnite raids behind pubs for empty kegs. :beerbang:
> don`t tell anyone tho.
> 
> stagga.



We did!
But the meter was still running, it would have been cheaper to buy an ally stock-pot!
Cheers
Gerard


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## SpillsMostOfIt (31/1/09)

Gerard_M said:


> We did!
> But the meter was still running, it would have been cheaper to buy an ally stock-pot!
> Cheers
> Gerard



But aren't kegs stainless?

I can actually see where you went wrong here. You should have turned the meter off so that the taxi company wasn't diddled out of their fare.


----------



## Frank (31/1/09)

NigeP62 said:


> Actually, At least one Barossa Micro is distributing their wares in these kegs.
> 
> Nige


Stopped in this morning to have a look. It is a German import keg borrowed from a Restaurant, that has to go back once the display comes down.


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## Eugene (31/1/09)

Here is a situation,

I have borrowed a few Tooheys kegs from a friend, he owns several large and succesful pubs in my area, selling LOTS & LOTS of beer from many breweries, he keeps all of his kegs under lock and keg, as he is only borrowing them from the brewery, he has lent some to me, now these kegs are not cut up or destroyed, just kegs.

They can and will be returned to him whenever he asks for them back, where do I stand, I doubt any brewery is going to harass him over 4 kegs when he sells ten of thousands of $$ worth of their swill each week.

Am I borrowing or stealing?


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## SpillsMostOfIt (31/1/09)

Eugene said:


> Am I borrowing or stealing?



What does Lion Nathan think? <_<


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## Carbonator (31/1/09)

Eugene said:


> Am I borrowing or stealing?



Neither, I think it's "Illegal use of" or "Misappropriation of Goods" not authorised to be in your possession by the owner in any "agreement or covenant that includs yourself" of said items?

However, if you are acting on behalf of the Pub owner, as an agent, representative or contractor, to handle said items, then you are STORING said kegs!


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## staggalee (31/1/09)

I can`t find a lid for this crock  

stagga.


----------



## muckey (31/1/09)

staggalee said:


> I can`t find a lid for this crock
> 
> stagga.




theres more peas and carrots in this thread than your crock :lol:


----------



## staggalee (31/1/09)

Muckey said:


> theres more peas and carrots in this thread than your crock :lol:


That`s not what you think it is in the crock, it`s actually stewed apples :lol: 

stagga.


----------



## SJW (31/1/09)

> Didn't SJW call the keg collector from Carlton once upon a time, because of an ebay item or something some such, and told him all about AHB? IIRC at the time there was a minor uproar about it but I haven't heard of him contacting anyone as yeat.....



Yes I did and I never told him all about AHB, as if we are some underground brewing network. But he did not say that what some of u guys  are doing is ok (with these kegs) but from memory he said that he goes after and has prosecuted people selling kegs for financial gain and people swiping heaps of them. I think I did ask him about people having one or two for private use and he just said what has already been said here is that they are not for the public to cut up and use and action COULD be taken. But I work in an enforcement role at Council too and I can say with 100% certainty that there is no way in the world they would spend the crazy amounts of money to take a little homebrewer to court over one or two kegs. 

Steve


----------



## jonocarroll (31/1/09)

Why doesn't someone just make a section in 'Tools of the Trade' called '*Discussions on Legalities of Kegs - Mainly Off Topic*' ? That way, when a new thread about this comes up each week, it has a place to live.

As for this;



Carbonator said:


> Scenario I haven't tried yet - So if I fill a shipping container with squashed ally cans that are worth 0.5C in NSW (at POS scrap metal yards) and drive to SA to claim 5C per can and make $35,000 @ 20 times per year after fuel and driver wages, is that stolen property or a crime? The cans used to say "Not to be refilled" and had the owners name printed on them before I got them. I can't prove where I got them from either.


I do recall a few people getting in trouble for doing something similar (buy/collect cans in another state then drive them to SA for the deposit). The cans all say 'when sold in SA' because the makers used to absorb the 5c. The deposit is now up to 10c and the makers decided to pass all of it on in the final price. The folk who got in trouble - sure, they couldn't prove where they got them from, the cops can't prove that they _weren't_ sold in SA, but I believe they were caught coming across the border... How do you answer to "why do you have a truckload of cans" without giving yourself away? "Got thirsty on the way over???"  

As for advice for the OP; buy your keg from someone with an ABN (a company, not just some dude who has one for the wholesale prices). Make sure it doesn't have any brewery labels. Actual companies are less likely to be dealing in dodgy goods. Not saying it's the best advice, just saying it's a step forward.


----------



## Jase71 (31/1/09)

So for all those people standing by the law concerning kegs, and proudly say they wouldnt steal: 

Have you, or have you ever, had any milk crates in your posession ?
Do you ever exceed the speed limit in your motor vehicle ? 
Have you ever burned something to CD, recordined something to cassette or downloaded copyright material online, purchased movies/music while on holiday in Asia? 
Have you ever jaywalked ? 
Have you ever used illegal drugs in your life ? 

Hands up who's guilty of all, OK most, of the above, yet still go on about illegal kegs ? We won't see any admissions, Im sure. 

On another vein - when I went on the Boags Brewery tour in September, I noticed that the kegs are of a different style than the buldging old style I have previously been familiar with - and SWMBO (who works in the hospitality industry) reckons all the kegs these days are of the 'new' style/shape. So therefore wouldnt there be a shitload* of the perfectly legal older ones available if you knew where to source them? 

*shitload: If commercial breweries have gone to a new shape, thn the pre-existing kegs would number in the hundreds of thousands, wouldnt they ? Unless theyve been scapped at the metal dealer.


----------



## Jakechan (31/1/09)

QuantumBrewer said:


> As for advice for the OP; buy your keg from someone with an ABN (a company, not just some dude who has one for the wholesale prices). Make sure it doesn't have any brewery labels. Actual companies are less likely to be dealing in dodgy goods. Not saying it's the best advice, just saying it's a step forward.



I did. Ye olde style cask shape with no numbers or letters at all. From the rubbish dump. $20


----------



## Jase71 (31/1/09)

Anyone can apply for an ABN............ it's by no means a good indicator of legitimate business practice.


----------



## Jakechan (31/1/09)

Jase71 said:


> Anyone can apply for an ABN............ it's by no means a good indicator of legitimate business practice.


Thats true, even _I've _got one


----------



## Pollux (31/1/09)

Jase71 said:


> So for all those people standing by the law concerning kegs, and proudly say they wouldnt steal:
> 
> Have you, or have you ever, had any milk crates in your posession ?
> Do you ever exceed the speed limit in your motor vehicle ?
> ...




1. Yes, multiple right now
2. Currently not owning a vehicle, but used to sit on 140 on motorways regularly
3. Not today........... <_< 
4. I got run over by a falcon at age 12, I won.
5. Not within the last 3 years....


My main issue with stolen kegs is not that the brewery is without a keg, but more the unfortunate publican who may end up incurring costs if kegs keep disappearing from his premises...


----------



## Jase71 (31/1/09)

And what of the Dairy Co-Op, or perhaps even the milko? 

Hmm, they probably don't have milko's anymore. Back in the day, I wonder if the glass milk bottles remained the property of the Co-Op........ 

How you been anyway, Pollux? Hope you're well.


----------



## Pollux (31/1/09)

I found all my milk crates on the side of the road, finders keepers...

I say the same for kegs, if you happen to find one randomly dumped in a park quite a distance from a pub, then I say it's yours....


Off-topic: Note too bad Jase, oh and sorry mate I kind of served that 6pk I had for our swap to my mum while she was down as I was low on stock....

Wasn't overly awesome anyways.


----------



## DonMac (31/1/09)

All of my pickaxe long necks are branded: Property of the Adelaide bottle Co., P/L . I say they are mine. Shhh...


----------



## SpillsMostOfIt (31/1/09)

DonMac said:


> All of my pickaxe long necks are branded: Property of the Adelaide bottle Co., P/L . I say they are mine. Shhh...



Does that mean that my mum was wasting her time when she sewed my name on all my clothes as a kid?

Should I ask her to stop?


----------



## clean brewer (31/1/09)

> So for all those people standing by the law concerning kegs, and proudly say they wouldnt steal:
> 
> Have you, or have you ever, had any milk crates in your posession ?
> Do you ever exceed the speed limit in your motor vehicle ?
> ...




Yes, they make for great storage in the garage, cable tied together. They were aqquired by me as the Milk Company never took them away from the Restaurant.
Yes, not on purpose though.
Yes.
Yes
Yes
I did aqquire my 1 50ltr Keggle from the Tip Recycling Centre for $20, I promised not to tell, he didnt care.. 

CB


----------



## jonocarroll (31/1/09)

Jase71 said:


> Anyone can apply for an ABN............ it's by no means a good indicator of legitimate business practice.


Hence my qualifier - "_a company, not just some dude who has one for the wholesale prices_" - you really only read half of each post don't ya Jase? Would you go selling stuff that could put your ABN status in jeopardy? What I meant was to find a business, shop front and all, that sells them. You're more likely to get a legal one if you can find such a business.

If you buy your watches from the guy on the street corner, don't be surprised if they're stolen. Go to a watch store though, I'd bet it isn't stolen (Cash/Crime Converters excepted).


----------



## quantocks (31/1/09)

Jase71 said:


> So for all those people standing by the law concerning kegs, and proudly say they wouldnt steal:



I don't think too many people have a huge problem with it, but you don't want to attract flies to shit. you know. so you don't hold a huge sign up saying "HEY EVERYONE I'M A THIEF!" as it attracts unwanted attention and I'm pretty sure some brewery spies would glance at this board every now and then.


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## Carbonator (31/1/09)

Jase71 said:


> therefore wouldnt there be a shitload* of the perfectly legal older ones available if you knew where to source them?
> 
> Unless theyve been scapped at the metal dealer.



Yes there used to be thousands of the 18 Gal kegs in Clyde in a paddock Carlton owned. I had no inerest in them in the 1980s. They are all gone.

Yes again in the late 1990's at the McWilliams wine plant in Chullora, thousands of the 50L thin walled, barrel shaped shaped kegs with ball lock plugs and corny hatches. I was just getting into HB and made inquiries. Told the dude I wanted them to make outdoor fireplaces. He said he couldn't let me have them because they may end upback in the industry. I sat on my hands looking at them for 3 years, then one day, they were all gone!


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## BEC26 (31/1/09)

One of my locals has 30+ 50l kegs sitting in the open in the car park.

Under a surveillance camera.

Me and a workmate (also a home brewer) have worked out a plan to nuetrelise said camera . . . 

JUST JOKING ( about neutralizing the camera).

seriously, If keg security was so important, how can this be allowed to happen ie have kegs in the car park, in the open, with a potentially phony security camera???

I have suggested to the local HBS they pay a visit as it is 40m away from said pub lol lol

Cheers


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## Thirsty Boy (1/2/09)

BEC26 said:


> One of my locals has 30+ 50l kegs sitting in the open in the car park.
> 
> Under a surveillance camera.
> 
> ...



phhhaaah. Bane of my damn life that was. Unsecured kegs everybloody where. It is a friggin miracle that there is even a camera pointing at them. In melbourne they just leave them lying on the street outside the pub. And it used to be part of my job to chase the damn things down when we were running short.

Thats one of the reasons that even though I work for a major brewery, I really don't give a toss that the odd homebrewer snags a keg for themselves. The pubs don't give a rat's & thats because the brewery does nothing to encourage them to give a toss... no deposit, no penalty for not returning kegs... nothing. All they do is keep an eye out for accumulations of un-returned kegs and bust the odd dufus who tries to steal and sell them.

12 months of my bloody life spent stressing and swearing about a chronic keg shortage... and they don't even have a deposit. Screw em

Here's an idea -definitely don't do it, it would be illegal and immoral. 

You have a local who leaves kegs out on the street, easily accessible. Lets say you took one home one night to fill with your favourite homebrew.

Why?? 

This keg is free (because you stole it)
This keg is sterile...the brewery's sanitation is better than yours, and the only thing in that keg is a few hundred ml of mega brew. Just fill on top without cleaning or sanitising. Hell its even purged with C02.
When you are finished - put it back. Take another one. The brewery gets their keg back and you get a lovely fresh clean one in exchange
You don't have the damn thing lying around the place if you don't need it - just return it. There is an endless supply of new ones.


Don't do that - only dishonest, unscrupulous, law ignoring rapscallions would do that and I personally would abhor and disapprove of any such action.


But it would save a lot of cleaning of kegs..............................


(note: this is not about cutting up someone elses property to make a kettle out of it. That really is naughty)


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## imellor (1/2/09)

You're an ideas man Thirsty and that is a top one.


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## Jakechan (1/2/09)

Thirsty Boy said:


> Here's an idea -definitely don't do it, it would be illegal and immoral.
> 
> You have a local who leaves kegs out on the street, easily accessible. Lets say you took one home one night to fill with your favourite homebrew.
> 
> ...



Classic 

And I think rapscallions should be the word for the day


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## Darren (1/2/09)

Better still, return it full of homebrew. You could have YOUR beer on tap the next day  

Incidently, this is what I suspect the big boy brewers are most worried about, that people will re-fill their branded kegs with home-brewed beer and re-sell under their name.

Ie: Whats a keg full of beer worth? $200? What does it cost to make, $20?

We all know that front bar CUB drinkers would not know if their favourite beer was in the glass, so long as it came out of a CUB keg.

cheers

Darren


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## oldbugman (1/2/09)

Thirsty Boy said:


> People can tit fart around with all the excuses in the world that they like - (with _very_ occasional exceptions) _ branded current style_ kegs, belong to a brewery. Thats it. The kegs belong to the brewery. They are not yours, they are someone else's, and you either stole them or purchased stolen property.



So will the brewery pay the littering fine for any kegs that find their way into any parklands or streets?


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## SJW (1/2/09)

I love all the "do gooders" who preach that having a s/s brewery keg is illegal, and how if u have one YOU MUST OF STOLE IT so your a bad person.
Who cares. Not even there breweries that much I bet. Sure if everyone had this attitude and owned a HOT keg for homebrew the world may grind to an economic halt and the sky might fall. But I reckon of all the AG home brewers in Australia and the ones that have s/s kegs there would only be a few hundred out there anyway.
The fact is it is illegal, so is doing 65kph in a 60 zone. If u can sleep at night having a keg or two, fine. 
And the people that don't have s/s kegs should stop being so high and mighty.
The end.

Steve


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## Carbonator (1/2/09)

OldBugman said:


> So will the brewery pay the littering fine for any kegs that find their way into any parklands or streets?



This is a situation with a history. Shopping trolleys are sold at auction by the Council that collects them. I assume the Branded kegs, if recognised by Council as having a salable value in which to recoup the recovery costs (and not taken home by council workers themselves), will usually be sold at auction or by Public Tender. So the answer is; the kegs are stolen, then dumped in the park, then salvaged by Council or contractors, sold to recoup recovery costs.

In the case of Motor vehicles that are stolen and recovered, there is agreements for Insurance companies to recover them, but sometimes they end up in council holding yards and the insurance company or owner is traced and required to pay fees, or surrender ownership to council to dispose of at it's discression.

In the case of the Council and selling stolen kegs, council will be covered. The buyer can be anyone, but the council must prove they have offered the original owner first preference to buy so they can cover costs and make some money. Then obtain a certificate of ownership from the original owner to keep them or dispose of how they like.


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## staggalee (1/2/09)

Carbonator said:


> This is a situation with a history. Shopping trolleys are sold at auction by the Council that collects them. I assume the Branded kegs, if recognised by Council as having a salable value in which to recoup the recovery costs (and not taken home by council workers themselves), will usually be sold at auction or by Public Tender. So the answer is; the kegs are stolen, then dumped in the park, then salvaged by Council or contractors, sold to recoup recovery costs.
> 
> In the case of Motor vehicles that are stolen and recovered, there is agreements for Insurance companies to recover them, but sometimes they end up in council holding yards and the insurance company or owner is traced and required to pay fees, or surrender ownership to council to dispose of at it's discression.
> 
> In the case of the Council and selling stolen kegs, council will be covered. The buyer can be anyone, but the council must prove they have offered the original owner first preference to buy so they can cover costs and make some money. Then obtain a certificate of ownership from the original owner to keep them or dispose of how they like.


How come you`re so knowledgeable about the ins and outs of all these laws and legal situations?

stagga.
edit.....and which Council do you mean?


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## skippy (1/2/09)

I just love stealing kegs from the back of the pub, good rush - especially during the day in full view of a nearby shopping centre!

now I have to work out what to do with the excess kegs i dont need (as i got carried away a bit)


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## Jakechan (1/2/09)

skippy said:


> I just love stealing kegs from the back of the pub, good rush - especially during the day in full view of a nearby shopping centre!
> 
> now I have to work out what to do with the excess kegs i dont need (as i got carried away a bit)



Err...you could try giving them back.


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## Leigh (1/2/09)

All these quotes of fact in this thread are unbelievable...

People prosecuted in the UK (what relevance to Australia?)
International salvage laws (what relevance to Australia?)

etc etc

With some councils, they sell/auction to recoup costs, others fine the original owner and hold the property hostage until said fine is paid. I've been involved in a scenario where a council blocked a new store of a major retail chain (where I worked at the time) until a $500,000 shopping trolley fine was paid! 

Laws are different everywhere we go...even local councils within Melbourne have different by-laws on how dumped goods, stolen or otherwise are treated...

Where I live, the local council are renowned for fining people who take goods from the roadside, as the local by-law states that ALL goods dumped are the property of the council...finders keepers doesn't exist around here but is still sprouted by the uninformed locally...but remember ignorance is no excuse in court!

And yes, I break the law just about everyday of my life!

The point here is that when asked, we inform people of what is right and wrong and then allow THEM to make up their own mind...Advising people that we can somehow "launder" stolen goods is farcical.

At the end of the day, it is unlikely that any homebrewer will be prosecuted, but lack of prosecution does not make it "legal".


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## skippy (1/2/09)

no way!!! 

mine.


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## Jakechan (1/2/09)

skippy said:


> no way!!!
> 
> mine.



Karma dude.


Karma.


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## staggalee (1/2/09)

skippy said:


> I just love stealing kegs from the back of the pub, good rush - especially during the day in full view of a nearby shopping centre!
> 
> now I have to work out what to do with the excess kegs i dont need (as i got carried away a bit)


Thirsty Boy, Thirsty Boy, quick, come and have a look at this!
Bring some handcuffs.

stagga.


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## skippy (1/2/09)

dogma stole my karma man


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## skippy (1/2/09)

for the record I do not 'steal kegs', I just like trying to spice up this forum as it's getting to politically correct


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## staggalee (1/2/09)

skippy said:


> for the record I do not 'steal kegs', I just like trying to spice up this forum as it's getting to politically correct



oh yeah?
well it`s too bloody late now, off to the hoosegow you go.
that`s what you get for "spicing up the forum" :lol: 

stagga.


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## Thirsty Boy (1/2/09)

staggalee said:


> Thirsty Boy, Thirsty Boy, quick, come and have a look at this!
> Bring some handcuffs.
> 
> stagga.




Why?? I don't care a zot and never said I did. All I have been trying to do is accurately inform people who want, as did the OP of this thread, to know which kegs actually are legal and which are not.

Those kegs are stolen & illegal, skippy _knows_ they are stolen and illegal; and is presumably happy with his actions and the possible consequences. Therefore I do not give a crap.


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## staggalee (1/2/09)

Bad skippy.

stagga.


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## skippy (1/2/09)

see thirstyboy doesnt care for spice stagga!


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## Carbonator (1/2/09)

staggalee said:


> How come you`re so knowledgeable about the ins and outs of all these laws and legal situations?



Back in my school days, I was diagnosed as being HYPER-ACTIVE!

In later years they called it ADD!

Recently, it's called ADHD!

I suffer from several sociological disorders: - "THINKING ABOUT EVERYTHING", "SURROUNDINGS AWARENESS", "ASKING TOO MANY QUESTIONS"!

Seriously, I know some councils will do what I stated, others prefer to let their workers deal with kegs in a different manor! My experience come from being an entrepreneur when it comes to abandoned cars - some are abandoned legitimately (mechanical defects, owner left the country) and others are stolen, so it pays to find out before acquiring them! The same processes would apply to any item council is interested in with a money value.


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## staggalee (1/2/09)

oh, I see.
What with the flowery legal jargon and advice and all, I thought you were some sort of reincarnated Perry Mason :lol: 
Case solved.

stagga.


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## peas_and_corn (2/2/09)

Carbonator said:


> Also OT
> 
> ALLY CANS TOO
> 
> ...



Apparently if you bring in 3000+ containers they will ask for proof that you're not shipping them from interstate. Not sure how that's possible, but hey...




Muckey said:


> theres more peas and carrots in this thread than your crock :lol:



The name's peas_and_corn




BEC26 said:


> One of my locals has 30+ 50l kegs sitting in the open in the car park.
> 
> Under a surveillance camera.
> 
> ...



At one pub the bloke behind the bar told me "just wait 'till it rains- the camera doesn't see anything when it rains"


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## brettprevans (2/2/09)

Stagga

Covered in a thread somewhere else (CBF looking for it) the topic of has anyone been prosecuted was discussed. Yes there has been in Vic. There is poor bastard cop (who must of roayally pissed the brass off) that is responsible for keg theft and chasing it down. now admittedly thius guy would be more inetersted in large scale theft (scrap prices etc) but there have been people prosecuted. Kegs cost a lot of cash and breweries are keen to have thiefs tracked down. Hence the new (well not so new this was early last year) idea of putting tracking devices in kegs so they can be tracked. it also has an inventory efficency aspect but tracking kegs also comes into it. the tracking device was going to located in the coupler.


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## SJW (2/2/09)

It must not be to big a problem, as I cant find anything on the web about keg recovery.


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## coolum brewer (2/2/09)

citymorgue2 said:


> Stagga
> 
> Covered in a thread somewhere else (CBF looking for it) the topic of has anyone been prosecuted was discussed. Yes there has been in Vic. There is poor bastard cop (who must of roayally pissed the brass off) that is responsible for keg theft and chasing it down. now admittedly thius guy would be more inetersted in large scale theft (scrap prices etc) but there have been people prosecuted. Kegs cost a lot of cash and breweries are keen to have thiefs tracked down. Hence the new (well not so new this was early last year) idea of putting tracking devices in kegs so they can be tracked. it also has an inventory efficency aspect but tracking kegs also comes into it. the tracking device was going to located in the coupler.



The "tracking device" has nothing to do with preventing theft - it is to track kegs within the brewery for cleaning, filling, dispatch, delivery, return, maintenance, etc. It is feasible that individual kegs that go missing could be tracked to where they last were in the legitimate chain - but couldn't be used to track down a "borrowed" keg in someone's garage.


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## peas_and_corn (2/2/09)

I don't see why not- it's GPS tracking, (fourth paragraph) which can be used a little wider than the distribution chain...


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## coolum brewer (2/2/09)

Sorry, I wasn't thinking Cincinnatti when I wrote the reply. The tracking being employed at major AUSTRALIAN (Foster's, Lion Nathan) breweries is RFID based not GPS.


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## SJW (2/2/09)

Anyone got the balls to e-mail one of these breweries and get it from the horses mouth?


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## Fents (2/2/09)

Pretty sure Thirstyboy would have it from the horses mouth working at CUB and all.

cant belive this threads still going.

wonder what would happen if all the homegrowers started a thread on a homegrowers forum about how they steal electricity. rag to a bull imo.


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## staggalee (2/2/09)

Fents said:


> wonder what would happen if all the homegrowers started a thread on a homegrowers forum about how they steal electricity. rag to a bull imo.


What would be the best way to go about that?

stagga.


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## Jakechan (2/2/09)

Fents said:


> cant belive this threads still going.



Yes, I'm so proud


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## schooey (2/2/09)

staggalee said:


> What would be the best way to go about that?
> 
> stagga.



Stand in front of bull.
Wave red flag.
Run...


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## peas_and_corn (2/2/09)

staggalee said:


> What would be the best way to go about that?
> 
> stagga.



Extension cable from the neighbours' house


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## staggalee (2/2/09)

citymorgue2 said:


> Stagga
> 
> Covered in a thread somewhere else (CBF looking for it) the topic of has anyone been prosecuted was discussed. Yes there has been in Vic.


but proof, Dr. Watson, proof!
we need PROOF!!  
{buries head in hands and shakes head from side to side, cursing uncontrollably}

stagga.


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## Fents (2/2/09)

stagga i reckon if you stopped replying to everyones posts this thread would die a happy death. let it be happy man, let it go peacefully.....


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## Thirsty Boy (2/2/09)

staggalee said:


> but proof, Dr. Watson, proof!
> we need PROOF!!
> {buries head in hands and shakes head from side to side, cursing uncontrollably}
> 
> stagga.




what proof do you want - I work for fosters, I was a manager in the keg plant, I was there when they prosecuted people for keg theft. People have provided you with proof, you just don't like the answers so you stick your fingers in your ears and sing the I can't hear you song. Grow up.


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## Carbonator (2/2/09)

It's interesting to note, after doing a Google search, in the US, empty SS Kegs are now earning there place in laws with specific mentions of them, as regulated or controlled items, like, alcohol, tobacco and other stuff like prescription drugs.

It's amazing the power of money when it comes to law making and fixing heinous crimes in today's society!


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## staggalee (2/2/09)

Thirsty Boy said:


> what proof do you want - I work for fosters, I was a manager in the keg plant, I was there when they prosecuted people for keg theft. People have provided you with proof, you just don't like the answers so you stick your fingers in your ears and sing the I can't hear you song. Grow up.



yes, you are a credit to Aussie manhood, no doubt about it...... telling us how you would dob people in, bla bla. You`re still burning over my remark for you to "bring the handcuffs" :lol: 
You might be a big noise at Fosters, but you`re just a shitkicker like the rest of us when you get on here.
Too bad if you couldn`t take a joke.
You need a Sherriff`s badge maybe. That`ll make you look more important. <_< 

stagga.


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## jonocarroll (2/2/09)

Is this still going?


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## Darren (2/2/09)

Thirsty Boy said:


> what proof do you want - I work for fosters, I was a manager in the keg plant, I was there when they prosecuted people for keg theft. People have provided you with proof, you just don't like the answers so you stick your fingers in your ears and sing the I can't hear you song. Grow up.




Hey Stagga,

The ol' Thirsty Boy does get a little hot under the collar if you are not impressed with the "I work for CUB" rant.

cheers

Darren


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## staggalee (2/2/09)

Darren said:


> Hey Stagga,
> 
> The ol' Thirsty Boy does get a little hot under the collar if you are not impressed with the "I work for CUB" rant.
> 
> ...



Yes, it`s surprising he spruiks the fact that he does, really.
I mean, every Tom Dick and H arry here is forever bashing the brand.
If it was me, I`d be keeping quiet about it and just going about the job of nailing those keg stealing bastards. They`re right up there with serial killers and bla bla...
stagga.


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## staggalee (2/2/09)

There goes one now  
Stop in the name of F osters or I`ll shoot

stagga.


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## SJW (2/2/09)

Time for a POLL?


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## schooey (2/2/09)

time to bury the thread and move on...


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## SJW (2/2/09)

With all this bad press about HOT KEGS I am surprised this thread is on the site. http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=15482

Why would u want to know how to do this?


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## staggalee (2/2/09)

SJW said:


> With all this bad press about HOT KEGS I am surprised this thread is on the site. http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=15482
> 
> Why would u want to know how to do this?
> [/quote}
> ...


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## paul (2/2/09)

Coopers kegs are good for the yeast in them.


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## schooey (2/2/09)

Good question SJW... But I also wondered what kind of remorse a God fearing, church attending, christian bloke like yourself feels about knocking three of them off himself? Or is it Ok as long as you say sorry on Sunday?


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## Darren (2/2/09)

schooey said:


> Good question SJW... But I also wondered what kind of remorse a God fearing, church attending, christian bloke like yourself feels about knocking three of them off himself? Or is it Ok as long as you say sorry on Sunday?




Didn't you just suggest that the thread should be buried?

cheers

Darren


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## Gerard_M (2/2/09)

Where is Pete from Wagga Wagga, he had a pretty good idea of what really happens when it comes to commercial kegs!  

Cheers
Gerard


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## staggalee (2/2/09)

Gerard_M said:


> Where is Pete from Wagga Wagga, he had a pretty good idea of what really happens when it comes to commercial kegs!
> 
> Cheers
> Gerard



He got torpedoed on Grumpy`s and went down to be never seen again {despite trying another username... it just doesn`t work} :lo

stagga.


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## Steve (2/2/09)

Jakechan said:


> I dont want to get caught out with something I shouldnt be buying.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jake



Jake - good for you for checking the laws before purchasing. I take it these 8 pages has answered your question? Now never ask again ok as someone else will ask the same question in a few months time and the same ole crap will be spewed forth.
Cheers
Steve


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## Jase71 (2/2/09)




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## brendo (2/2/09)

Jase71 said:


>



WTF??

That is some funny shit...


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## bigfridge (2/2/09)

Jase71 said:


>



Are Anteaters legal in Australia ?

What if you find one just hanging around at the back of a Zoo ?


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## brendo (2/2/09)

bigfridge said:


> Are Anteaters legal in Australia ?
> 
> What if you find one just hanging around at the back of a Zoo ?



As long as it is not a current shape Anteater, you are ok... although generally they are melted down by the Anteater owners to stop public misuse.

Remember kiddies... it is not cool to cut up an Anteater...


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## Jase71 (2/2/09)

brendo said:


> Remember kiddies... it is not cool to cut up an Anteater...



Oh. Now you tell me. 

Time to find a new hop sock.


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## peas_and_corn (2/2/09)

Look, those Zoos just leave anteaters lying out in the open- it's their fault that people accidentally them.


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## jonocarroll (2/2/09)

I've just GPS tagged all the anteaters. Also, I heard about this one guy from interstate - he took an anteater from behind a zoo and they found him and they made him pay a bajillion dollars.

He wanted to refill it himself - his first attempt didn't work;


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## jlm (2/2/09)

So thats what they do with the kitties that make their way to the pound, gas them with CO2


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## Whistlingjack (2/2/09)

I have no idea what you're talking about so here's a picture of a rabbit with a pancake on its head...




WJ


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## schooey (2/2/09)

Pfffft... anyone can see that's a guinea pig with a waffle on it's head..


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## Steve (2/2/09)

schooey said:


> Pfffft... anyone can see that's a guinea pig with a waffle on it's head..




nah definately a rabbit with a waffle....i've shot many in my time with my assault rifle!


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## Whistlingjack (2/2/09)

Surely a lesser calibre would deal with waffles?

WJ


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## jlm (2/2/09)

So the next time the keg question comes up, can we just skip straight to irrelevence at the end? Some of the best posts come up. I've been waiting days to get here though.....


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## peas_and_corn (2/2/09)




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## jonocarroll (2/2/09)

jlm said:


> So the next time the keg question comes up, can we just skip straight to irrelevence at the end? Some of the best posts come up. I've been waiting days to get here though.....


How about the unexplainable?


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## Thirsty Boy (2/2/09)

So - Stagga & Darren both dislike me and their various retarded misinterpretations of what I say and what I stand for.

And if there were two people on the forum who it makes me prouder and happier to have the whole world know that I am disliked by, it would be those two. If was to have earned their respect and admiration, I would have to think seriously about having a good hard look at myself. Its truly a pleasure and privilege to be despised by fools.


now, where is my waffle... me and that guinea pig have some drinking to do


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## Batz (2/2/09)

Thirsty Boy said:


> what proof do you want - I work for fosters, I was a manager in the keg plant, I was there when they prosecuted people for keg theft. People have provided you with proof, you just don't like the answers so you stick your fingers in your ears and sing the I can't hear you song. Grow up.




A bit like the food grade C02 thing hey?
Some people know it better...wankers their called.

Batz


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## bigfridge (2/2/09)

schooey said:


> Pfffft... anyone can see that's a guinea pig with a waffle on it's head..



No, no - it's a ginea pig doing a handstand on a wicker tea cosy ....

Ooops, my mistake - 'upside down Miss Jane' .....


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## staggalee (2/2/09)

and while we`re at it, here`s me dawg Samson, purebred Tenterfield Terrier 14 and a half and still full of go.  

stagga.


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## hoppinmad (2/2/09)

QuantumBrewer said:


> I do recall a few people getting in trouble for doing something similar (buy/collect cans in another state then drive them to SA for the deposit). The cans all say 'when sold in SA' because the makers used to absorb the 5c. The deposit is now up to 10c and the makers decided to pass all of it on in the final price. The folk who got in trouble - sure, they couldn't prove where they got them from, the cops can't prove that they _weren't_ sold in SA, but I believe they were caught coming across the border... How do you answer to "why do you have a truckload of cans" without giving yourself away? "Got thirsty on the way over???"
> 
> As for advice for the OP; buy your keg from someone with an ABN (a company, not just some dude who has one for the wholesale prices). Make sure it doesn't have any brewery labels. Actual companies are less likely to be dealing in dodgy goods. Not saying it's the best advice, just saying it's a step forward.




From what I've heard, you can now only get the SA can/bottle deposit if you are a South Australian. So you need an SA drivers licence... and for kids a parent needs to be present that has proof they live in SA.


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## staggalee (2/2/09)

Thirsty Boy said:


> So - Stagga & Darren both dislike me and their various retarded misinterpretations of what I say and what I stand for.
> 
> And if there were two people on the forum who it makes me prouder and happier to have the whole world know that I am disliked by, it would be those two. If was to have earned their respect and admiration, I would have to think seriously about having a good hard look at myself. Its truly a pleasure and privilege to be despised by fools.
> 
> ...



Aw shucks, twas nothin, just another toffeenose arsekicking where called for
Proud to be up in the top notchers
Service and Vigilance is the motto.

Y`all come back now, y`hear? :lol: 

stagga.


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## peas_and_corn (2/2/09)




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## staggalee (2/2/09)




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## jonocarroll (2/2/09)




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## jonocarroll (2/2/09)

and I'm done. Probably.


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## staggalee (2/2/09)

`night all

stagga.


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## hoppinmad (2/2/09)

just to add my bit... only one I promise :lol:


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## jonocarroll (2/2/09)

Too big to host here, but worth a click. http://i34.tinypic.com/vrea15.jpg


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## SJW (3/2/09)

> Good question SJW... But I also wondered what kind of remorse a God fearing, church attending, christian bloke like yourself feels about knocking three of them off himself? Or is it Ok as long as you say sorry on Sunday?



No remorse. And even if I wanted to say sorry I would not have to wait till Sunday.
I am a bad person


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## Darren (3/2/09)

Thirsty Boy said:


> Its truly a pleasure and privilege to be despised by fools.




I thought you worked for 20 years collecting stolen kegs?

cheers

Darren


----------

