# To Smack Or Not To Smack?



## JaseH (9/10/12)

Whats the opinion on smacking a wyeast smack pack that I intend to split 4 ways? I've read some that do and some that dont. I'm leaning towards not smacking - my simple logic is I don't need to wake them up if I'm just putting them to sleep again?


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## Bizier (9/10/12)

I don't smack.


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## IainMcLean (9/10/12)

I wouldn't smack either- like you say, it's counter-intuitive to wake the yeast beast then ask it to go to sleep.


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## kelbygreen (9/10/12)

save the nutrient for the brew and pitch it with the yeast sure it cant hurt


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## JaseH (9/10/12)

Cool, confirmed my thoughts.

I'll save the nutrient pack for the starter


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## Crusty (9/10/12)

Frothie said:


> Whats the opinion on smacking a wyeast smack pack that I intend to split 4 ways? I've read some that do and some that dont. I'm leaning towards not smacking - my simple logic is I don't need to wake them up if I'm just putting them to sleep again?



I smack the pack.
I use 30ml vials so smacking the pack & letting it swell for 2-3 days gives me 4 x 30ml vials full with a dribble left over. Not smacking the pack gave me 3 & a bit tubes full so the smack works for me. No problems so far with my stepped starters or attenuation, spot on.


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## Nick JD (9/10/12)

I smack it just so it knows who's boss.


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## yum beer (9/10/12)

Smack it if it makes you feel good, just be sure to only use an open hand and dont leave marks.....oh, you guys talken bout yeast.

Yes, I'd smack that.


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## felten (9/10/12)

It's probably down to personal preference, but I would have thought it could help top their energy supplies off before you put them back into storage.

Plus it might help to wash the yeast out of the packet.


Wyeast do say that if you have smacked the pack and can't brew with it right away, you should put it back into the fridge. So it doesn't cause them any harm to smack and then store.


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## tallie (10/10/12)

Wolfy gives the following reasons for smacking in the Splitting Yeast Packs (in Pictures) thread:


Wolfy said:


> *Step 0:* (optional)
> If using a Wyeast pack (as per the pictures here), smack the pack and wait for it to swell, this provides more liquid to split and 'revives' the yeast which should mean it will be viable for a longer period when stored.



I've never split yeast before, but that makes sense to me. It also gives you an indication that the yeast is viable, although I guess you'd normally split a relatively fresh pack.

Cheers,
tallie


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## Paul H (10/10/12)

As my mother said to me "Don't smack it"  

:icon_cheers: 

Paul


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## browndog (10/10/12)

spare the rod and spoil the yeast.


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## JaseH (11/10/12)

Anyone know what's actually in the nutrient pack? Is it something special or just a bit of malt extract and yeast nutrient?


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## steve78 (11/10/12)

I believe its a high quality yeast nutrient. Save it for your starter mate!!!


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## labels (11/10/12)

Wyeast say 'Malt Nutrient' I really don't see whether knowing or not will be helpful. They do say that it doesn't matter if the pack swells up or not so I guess that comes pretty close to answering your question


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## Spiesy (15/1/13)

These things are a BUGGER to burst. I have only had three of them, and I smacked the shit out of the last one... let it sit outside (low 20's ambient) for a day, no swelling, so I thought the yeast must no longer be viable (yeast was 6-months old). Thought I'd open it up to take a gander... yep, bloody nutrient pack hadn't burst. 

I swear, I smacked the hell out of this thing maybe 4 or 5 times throughout the course of that day, to the point I was scared that I might burst the outer pack... be great if these things were a little easier to open.


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## Cocko (15/1/13)

Work it down to a corner, rest it on the ball of your palm, smack the f&ckhole out of it with your other hand ball of palm, you can feel and hear it pop... - I find this works for me anyway....

Maybe it is your girlish strength and lady boy type hands that are the issue?

What is it? a 1056 for your LCPA clone?


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## tallie (15/1/13)

Cocko said:


> Work it down to a corner, rest it on the ball of your palm, smack the f&ckhole out of it with your other hand ball of palm, you can feel and hear it pop... - I find this works for me anyway....


Or, once it's in the corner, put the pack on a hard flat surface and lean on it with the palm of your hand until it bursts - it's quite obvious when it's done!

Cheers,
tallie


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## bum (15/1/13)

tallie said:


> Or, once it's in the corner, put the pack on a hard flat surface and lean on it with the palm of your hand until it bursts - it's quite obvious when it's done!


Yep, the immovable object versus the irresistable force works much better for me than left gun versus right gun.


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## stux (15/1/13)

Spiesy said:


> These things are a BUGGER to burst. I have only had three of them, and I smacked the shit out of the last one... let it sit outside (low 20's ambient) for a day, no swelling, so I thought the yeast must no longer be viable (yeast was 6-months old). Thought I'd open it up to take a gander... yep, bloody nutrient pack hadn't burst.
> 
> I swear, I smacked the hell out of this thing maybe 4 or 5 times throughout the course of that day, to the point I was scared that I might burst the outer pack... be great if these things were a little easier to open.


You don't smack it, you pop it.

I place it on a table and find the nutrient pack and lean into it with my palms until it pops... always feel like the whole thing is going to burst... but its not.

Meanwhile, I don't smack if I'm going to split.

its faster
i get a nice 4x split across 30ml vials and
i don't have to worry abvout yeasties getting stuck in an empty nutrient pack,
I can collect the nutrient for laters


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## Cocko (15/1/13)

Well, thanks again AHB - I have learnt 2 things in these few short posts...

1. Put your smack packs on a table and pop - awesome! Cheers...

2. Spiesy has a girlish physique and lady boy style hands. [Well, I sort of knew that]

Cheers lads!


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## bradsbrew (15/1/13)

Cocko said:


> Well, thanks again AHB - I have learnt 2 things in these few short posts...
> 
> 1. Put your smack packs on a table and pop - awesome! Cheers...
> 
> ...


Yes the table and pop does seem like a great alternative and probably a better method. But I like to set the challenge to myself of one hard slap and thats it. I will continue the one hard smack. Weak little yeasty just got slapped, who's the man yeasty, whos the man!


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## Batz (15/1/13)

I smack and build up the starter enough for two 25lt brews (I brew 50lt at a time), I also have enough for 6 tubes of yeast for the yeast bank. Each of the tubes I then build up for two 25lt brews. I never go more than a second generation as I believe the yeast will not be the same, and hell 14 brews from one pack?

Easy as.

batz


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## lukasfab (16/1/13)

Batz said:


> I smack and build up the starter enough for two 25lt brews (I brew 50lt at a time), I also have enough for 6 tubes of yeast for the yeast bank. Each of the tubes I then build up for two 25lt brews. I never go more than a second generation as I believe the yeast will not be the same, and hell 14 brews from one pack?
> 
> Easy as.
> 
> batz


so do you do a 2.5 litre starter or something? pitch a litre into each batch and .5 litre into tubes?


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## Spiesy (16/1/13)

Cocko said:


> Well, thanks again AHB - I have learnt 2 things in these few short posts...
> 
> 1. Put your smack packs on a table and pop - awesome! Cheers...
> 
> ...


gfc


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## Spiesy (16/1/13)

Stux said:


> You don't smack it, you pop it.
> 
> Meanwhile, I don't smack if I'm going to split.


But you don't smack it at all, right?


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## Spiesy (16/1/13)

anyway... maybe the good folk at Wyeast would be better off putting the wise words of the AHB collective on their packs, rather than telling their customers to put it on a palm, and smack it. The table with applied pressure sounds like a much better option.


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## Amber Fluid (16/1/13)

I smack then split into 4 tubes.
Grow 3 of the tubes as you need it and reuse a few times then grow the last tube and split that into 4 more tubes. Never run out of the strain then and always have the virgin at hand.


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## Bubba Q (16/1/13)

Easiest way to pop it is to give it a light tap with the base of a saucepan / frying pan


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## Florian (16/1/13)

Bubba Q said:


> Easiest way to pop it is to give it a light tap with the base of a saucepan / frying pan


Good way to make the whole pack burst, too :lol:


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## stux (16/1/13)

Spiesy said:


> But you don't smack it at all, right?


Right 

I don't smack pop if I'm going to split


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## carniebrew (16/1/13)

Amber Fluid said:


> I smack then split into 4 tubes. Grow 3 of the tubes as you need it and reuse a few times then grow the last tube and split that into 4 more tubes. Never run out of the strain then and always have the virgin at hand.


So is everyone saying that a single Wyeast pack is enough to ferment 4 separate batches? Once split into 4, what's the trick to turning 1/4 of the Wyeast pack back into enough yeast to ferment 20 odd litres?


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## bradsbrew (16/1/13)

There is a good wiki from Tony. But they are not available at the moment. This link should help.

http://blog.bracio.com/2012/09/splitting-liquid-yeast-packs.html

Edit: when it is back up here is a good article by Tony.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/61076-yeast-starter-and-splitting-yeast-packs/


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## Spiesy (16/1/13)

Possibly a silly question, but in I go:

Do starters impart any flavours in the finished beer?


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## Cocko (16/1/13)

I wouldn't imagine flavour but definitely an increased risk of infection IMO.

Each to their own..


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## Spiesy (16/1/13)

sc


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## Nick JD (16/1/13)

Spiesy said:


> Possibly a silly question, but in I go:
> 
> Do starters impart any flavours in the finished beer?


Depends how much of the starter you chuck in. I pour off the "beer" and rouse the yeast with about 100ml of the "beer".

So, yes, but you won't taste the difference.


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## Spiesy (16/1/13)

got ya, thanks


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## Batz (16/1/13)

lukasfab said:


> so do you do a 2.5 litre starter or something? pitch a litre into each batch and .5 litre into tubes?



That's near enough to it, yes. .


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## lukasfab (16/1/13)

So full pack straight into 2.5l?

Thanks bats


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## Batz (17/1/13)

lukasfab said:


> So full pack straight into 2.5l?
> 
> Thanks bats


No I build it up around three times, I let it settle out and pour the beer off and then build up. this way I end up with heaps of yeast.
I do use a stir plate.


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## hughman666 (17/1/13)

Batz said:


> I smack and build up the starter enough for two 25lt brews (I brew 50lt at a time), I also have enough for 6 tubes of yeast for the yeast bank. Each of the tubes I then build up for two 25lt brews. I never go more than a second generation as I believe the yeast will not be the same, and hell 14 brews from one pack?
> 
> Easy as.
> 
> batz



I'm curious to know where the rule of no more than a second generation comes from. Is it just personal preference? I've had good results going to gen 4 with some yeasts (3068, 1272 etc) but some others (2001 for example) don't do so well.

Just wondering...


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## Spiesy (17/1/13)

In his "Yeast" book, Jamil claims better results out of subsequent generations, up to a point - obviously this is dependent on the strain and condition of the yeast being used. From memory 3rd and 4th generations exhibited the most desirable characteristics (as a generalisation).


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## Batz (17/1/13)

hughman666 said:


> I'm curious to know where the rule of no more than a second generation comes from. Is it just personal preference? I've had good results going to gen 4 with some yeasts (3068, 1272 etc) but some others (2001 for example) don't do so well. Just wondering...



No rules with any brewing, the way I do things is just personal preference the same as any brewer. I have found the yeast can take on other flavors if used for to many generations and for the cost of a smack pack it works out well for me the way I do it.

I know one brewer who uses the same strain for years.


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## stux (17/1/13)

I tend to stick to gen zero starters from splits personally. I have a persistant wild yeast problem (on my property!) and this keeps the problem at bay. 

Damn swmbo and all her fruit trees 

So up to 4 triple batches per pack. Bout a dollar for yeast then. At that rate the cost of ldme for the starter is more significant than the yeast.

The problem is spinning up a 12month old split to innocuoate 60L of lager takes forever


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## Amber Fluid (17/1/13)

hughman666 said:


> I'm curious to know where the rule of no more than a second generation comes from. Is it just personal preference? I've had good results going to gen 4 with some yeasts (3068, 1272 etc) but some others (2001 for example) don't do so well.Just wondering...


There was no mention that it was a "rule". As far as I can see it is personal preference.
Just saying is all.....


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## Bribie G (17/1/13)

With number of generations, I've found that some yeasts can "drift" - for example in 2011 I bought a vial of San Diego super yeast at the Brisbane Conference and it was stunning, but after about 4 generations it stopped being "super" and was actually taking longer to attenuate than US-05 so I didn't go any further with it. I took a bottle to Warra48 in Feb last year, I don't know if he's still using it.

I'm currently on gen. 3 of my Wyeast 1768PC which is only available occasionally, and hoping that it stays true - which is seems to be doing so far.


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## kcurnow (17/1/13)

Bribie G said:


> With number of generations, I've found that some yeasts can "drift" - for example in 2011 I bought a vial of San Diego super yeast at the Brisbane Conference and it was stunning, but after about 4 generations it stopped being "super" and was actually taking longer to attenuate than US-05 so I didn't go any further with it. I took a bottle to Warra48 in Feb last year, I don't know if he's still using it.
> 
> I'm currently on gen. 3 of my Wyeast 1768PC which is only available occasionally, and hoping that it stays true - which is seems to be doing so far.


Drift generation will also be affected due to the fact that unless you pitch everything that was left over in the bottom of the fermenter, when you collect the yeast during fermentation you will either be collecting the more or less attenuative yeast cells depending on if you top or bottom crop.


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