# Pigs & Little - our electric brewery



## Crouch (25/7/14)

I've been following along on some of the all electric builds happening lately and its been great to see other peoples progress, so I thought I should really create a thread for our electric brewery that is currently under construction.

I've never brewed an AG beer, but have a decent amount of K&K brews under my belt and have been wanting to make the switch for a while. Like most people I've read forums, watched youtube and started collecting and fabricating bits and pieces.

We had this old 55L esky hanging around so I thought I should make it into a Mash Tun - its never been used and is unlikely to ever be used ...







... as its being replaced by this 83L SS mash tun, it still requires plumbing though. This pot was super cheap and its pretty terrible quality compared to my other pots. When the seller I bought the HLT and BK from have more in stock I will replace the MT with one of those pots and use this for something else - perhaps a chilled tank for recirculating cooling water?







So far I have all 3 vessels:

72L pots for the HLT (on the right) and BK (on the left)
83L pot for the Mash Tun (in the middle, it was advertised as 83L but I'm pretty sure its exactly the same size as the 72L pots)






The control panel is being built following the directions that Kal provides over at theelectricbrewery.com ... essentially the system will be a 'kal clone'.


My tags arrived today (yes, I bought the expensive tags from the place in Canada recommended by Kal), here is a shot of them placed on the CP. They are not fixed yet, I am still waiting for some switches to arrive before actually fixing them in place.







I have 2 of the small green magnetic pumps to use as the wort and water pumps. The power cables have been extended (as they do not come with long leads of plugs) and covered in black expandable cable braiding - just to make them look fancier. The plugs I have used are the same plugs as Kal uses on his CP.







I'm committed to completing this setup and it being my first setup for AG brewing ... pretty extravagant first setup but like most hobbies I get into, its all or nothing!

More updates to come.


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## Crouch (25/7/14)

This is a shot of our brewing space.

Its located in the wet area of my warehouse so the floor slopes to an in-floor drain (not pictured, I'm standing almost over it to take this shot) which is great, it makes washing everything down easy with out have to worry to much about spills etc.

The overhead extractors are bloody noisy (3 phase but they do the job well enough. The gas heater (on the extractor housing) keeps me warm, and the beer fridge on the left keeps me jolly.

The bench on the right also slops back towards the wall (which are all painted in a water-proofing membrane) and down towards the drain so is also used for washing things.

The shelving on the left is obviously used for storing things.

Just behind the fridge you can just see a 3 phase 32A outlet ... to the left of that (hidden by the fridge) is another 32A circuit terminating in 2 x 15A GPO's ... those will be switched to a single 3-pin single phase 32A outlet for the control panel.


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## Camo6 (25/7/14)

Nice setup Crouch. Your controller looks great. Neat job mate.


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## Crouch (25/7/14)

Camo6 said:


> Nice setup Crouch. Your controller looks great. Neat job mate.


Cheers!

Even though the system is not yet fully operational (didn't stop the Death Star did it!), I have some grains sitting in some food grade buckets. My grain mill is the 3 roller one from Keg King - can't remember its name. It's mounted to some wooden board that has bolts extending through it to keep it in place over the bucket.


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## Eagleburger (25/7/14)

Where did you get the good 72l pots from?


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## Crouch (25/7/14)

Eagleburger said:


> Where did you get the good 72l pots from?


An ebay seller called Soga2009. I think they were $180 each. Good pots, would recommend them. Proper sandwiched bases and thick walls, they weigh 11.5kg so are good for gas or electric.

They don't have any items listed at the moment, but I sent them an email a few weeks back and they said they'll be getting back into things during August.


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## Crouch (25/7/14)

I've had a hell of time trying to get the element housing attached to the kettle. These are the electrical boxes that hold the element electrics, I used boxes from Jaycar but the walls were just to thick and I couldn't get enough thread on the element exposed to properly attach the nut inside the kettle.






The hole in this housing is big enough for the element to fit through and expose some thread, but not enough. So I drilled a larger hole, and cut up the side of an old computer case to make a backing plate.






I used some JB Weld to attach the new backing plate to the back of the electrical box. Its still wet but will show more pictures from the inside shortly. This has effectively made the wall the sits between the element and the kettle thinner, therefore exposing more thread and allowing me to actually get the nut on.






I'm still no 100% this will actually work ... but aside from the difference in materials I have used it is pretty much the same process that Kal used to make the element enclosures for his build.


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## Crouch (25/7/14)

I have a good selection of fermentors which I've been using for my K&K brews, but I think I might change them for the shorter drums from the big green shed. That way they'll fit on some shelving units I have that I intend to clad in some polystyrene to insulate the inside allowing me to add some heat and keep the 'cupboards' ambient temperature under control - primarily for Ales. I'll look at getting a fridge later down the track for fermenting lagers, not 100% sure as I prefer ales ... but we'll see what happens.


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## Crouch (26/7/14)

I have more of these shelving units that I am thinking of cladding in some polystyrene sheets to make an insulated 'cupboard', add a small heater and temperature controller so I have a stable ambient temperature for fermenting ales - it gets pretty cold in the warehouse at nights, and the ambient can vary widely.






(How do you create a clickable thumbnail image that shows the full sized image from the gallery?)


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## sjp770 (26/7/14)

Wow! I should be copying you man! Very impressive setup there. I'm fitting my elements tonight, where did you get the jb weld? I have super strong araldite and was going to use that.


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## 5150 (26/7/14)

Awesome setup. I'm in the midst of a setup myself, but not as sexy as yours. I can't wait for my first mash in as I am sure you are. Best of luck.


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## pedleyr (26/7/14)

Great looking setup mate, lucky bastard being able to have a factory to do it in! It looks like you have the approach of doing it right the first time, which I like.

I can also tell you're keen to go AG - buckets full of grain already!


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## Crouch (26/7/14)

sjp770 said:


> Wow! I should be copying you man! Very impressive setup there. I'm fitting my elements tonight, where did you get the jb weld? I have super strong araldite and was going to use that.


The super strong araldite didnt work for me, the panel that was 'glued' on snapped right after tightening the nut on the element and jiggling the housing a little bit.

Masters sells JB Weld - if you can get it, get it ... its soooo much better than the araldite!!


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## Crouch (26/7/14)

So all the pots now have all the ball valves attached and all external plumbing is pretty much complete, there is one last quick disconnect to add to the HLT (on the right) that I forget to grab when I was at KK today. Ignore the placement of the hoses in this pic, I know they don't make sense I was just playing with them to get 'comfortable'






The HLT is complete, except for one bloody quick disconnect I forget to pick up when I went out for parts today! The HERMS coil is in place, it sits about 1" above the element (maybe a little less) so I hope there wont be any problems with scorching etc. I finally managed to get the element housing water tight ... so this put is pretty much good to go now.






I have one last thing to add to the MT insides, that being an 'L' shaped extension for the inside of the ball valve at the top so I can attach a length of silicon hose that will act as my return/sparge arm for recirculating the mash, and for sparging. I am not 100% sure about that bloody tiny false bottom ... I'll see how it goes but if i can find something larger then I'll probably grab that also.







Both pumps have now been attached to a wooden board. I was thinking to attach them directly to the bench, but this allows me to tip the pumps forward to drain any liquid left inside. It also means I can move the pumps around but still have them secured in place. I may run 2 bolts through the wooden board and the bench though so that its securely in place when I need it to be there.






Both the HLT and MT have the temperature probes placed after the ball valve, this allows me to get an accurate reading of the temperature as the liquid passes the probe on its way to the next vessel, or as its recirculated. The temp probe for the boil kettle sits directly through the kettle wall.






So the plumbing is pretty much complete, though now that its almost done I'm getting really tempted to fix all the plumbing in place using some copper pipe, solder all the joins etc ... hrmmm.

Tomorrow I will water test everything for final leaks, I've been adjusting things several times so hopefully everything will be good.

Now I just need more components to arrive so I can start working on my control panel!


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## Crouch (27/7/14)

I made a quick little 'hanger' for my hoses so I can keep them straight and allow them to drain well. It's just a piece of pine with some slots cut out and mounted with an 'L' bracket. The hoses slide on from the left, the quick disconnect and clamp bolt keep the hoses in place.






Here is a closer shot:


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## sjp770 (27/7/14)

That setup looks like a dream. Love the HLT copper coil. I'm waiting for mine to arrive but I'm not plumbing it in yet, just dropping it in.

There was some discussion about the temp probe at a right angle in the t piece. For the best reading it should be in line.


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## Crouch (27/7/14)

What do you mean 'in line' ... it is, isn't it? The liquid comes out the ball valve, straight over the temp probe and around the corner out the quick disconnect ... ?? Got a link to something I can read?

Cheers


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## sjp770 (27/7/14)

I'd say it wouldn't matter if the temp probe itself is in the flow. I think I was just remembering concerns about shorter temp probes.

How much did the tags set you back?


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## Crouch (27/7/14)

The tags were ~$50 shipped .. you could probably get something just the same here.


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## sjp770 (27/7/14)

That's not terrible. Did they have a pack all ready to go or did you have to specify it all? BTW, I returned the araldite and will get jb weld tomrrow


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## Crouch (27/7/14)

I sent them an email saying I am building the same control panel that Kal built for his brewery at theelectricbrewery and I want the same set of tags (27 in total). Pretty easy, had to give them my CC details via email though (not sure how you'd feel about that) and about a week later got the tags in the mail. I did forget to mention that my build is 240v so I have 1 tag that sits under the panel next the pump plugs that say '15a 120v' ... not too much of a problem.


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## Crouch (28/7/14)

So now the plumbing is pretty much complete, and whilst i continue waiting for components for the control panel to arrive I thought I would jazz up the fridge with a coat of (very badly applied!) blackboard paint. My tip to anyone wanting to do the same, get a small cheap roller, you'll end up with a much better finish then the botch job I did on this one with a brush!!

I also changed one of my taps to a SS Perlick. After some stuffing around and extending the beer line (~4 metres, 5mm ID) its pouring lovely, smooth and fast pints.

The beer on tap at the moment is an American Pale Ale I have called 'Simple' - its one of the DME+Crystal kits from Keg King, come up a fraction shy of 5%.


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## bazfletch3 (28/7/14)

Hey Crouch

Did your work around for mounting the elements through the boxes end up working mate? Im just waiting for my elements to arrive and was going to buy Jaycar boxes just like you, so yours was a very timely post! I also have an existing pot which I plan to keep which is alumininum, so has thicker sides - which Im now thinking will make things even more difficult!

Cheers

Baz


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## Crouch (28/7/14)

bazfletch3 said:


> Hey Crouch
> 
> Did your work around for mounting the elements through the boxes end up working mate? Im just waiting for my elements to arrive and was going to buy Jaycar boxes just like you, so yours was a very timely post! I also have an existing pot which I plan to keep which is alumininum, so has thicker sides - which Im now thinking will make things even more difficult!
> 
> ...


Hi Baz. Yeah it worked. Cutting a large hole that the entire element can pass through, covering that hole with (in my case) a piece of sheet metal from the side of a computer case, cutting into that a hole just large enough for the threads of the element to pass through (but not entirely) gave me enough length inside the pot to attach the nut. I also applied a load of silicon inside the element housing before passing the element through, just to add to peace of mind ... here is a pic from the inside:




You can just see the thin piece of sheet metal between the enclosure box and the pot wall - it was attached to the enclosure box with JB Weld



I used water proof cable glands to attach the power cables through the side of the enclosure walls ... it does mean I have a bloody great cable flapping around when I need to move the pot, but I can deal with that


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## bazfletch3 (28/7/14)

Nice to know, as I suspect I'll have to do the same.

Just quietly, that's come up looking better than the Elec Brewery mounting box if you ask me- those aluminium boxes match in perfectly!

Cheers

Baz


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## Crouch (28/7/14)

The switches I was waiting on finally arrived today, so with those in place I attached the tags that came in a few days back and now the Control Panel looks very much the part ... the only challenge now is to actually make it work!


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## mofox1 (28/7/14)

Damn, looks good. Good pickup on the enclosure box, the guy you picked it up from doesn't seem to be selling anything on ebay anymore.. 

Impressed with your build timeframe - mine is very, very incremental.


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## Crouch (28/7/14)

mofox1 said:


> Damn, looks good. Good pickup on the enclosure box, the guy you picked it up from doesn't seem to be selling anything on ebay anymore..
> 
> Impressed with your build timeframe - mine is very, very incremental.


Man that's a bummer, was such a good deal. Re: time frame, I'm very lucky that I have great staff and don't need to be in the office fulltime ... and a very understanding and amazing wife!!

Made some progress on the control panel wiring tonight ... installed the plugs and ran all the ground connections off to the earthing pin, nothing amazing but its progress. You can see the one lose cable with the spiral wrap, the connects to the control panel door.

All I am waiting on now is the relays to arrive from China - if its anything like other aliexpress purchases they should be in here in around a month


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## gava (29/7/14)

Crouch said:


> Man that's a bummer, was such a good deal. Re: time frame, I'm very lucky that I have great staff and don't need to be in the office fulltime ... and a very understanding and amazing wife!!
> 
> Made some progress on the control panel wiring tonight ... installed the plugs and ran all the ground connections off to the earthing pin, nothing amazing but its progress. You can see the one lose cable with the spiral wrap, the connects to the control panel door.
> 
> All I am waiting on now is the relays to arrive from China - if its anything like other aliexpress purchases they should be in here in around a month


What gauge wire is that? You said you'll be running a 32amp control panel.. That wire doesn't look like 32amp wire, it more looks like 20amp.. might be a littler hard to see in the picture but thought I'd ask the question.

Gavin


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## sjp770 (29/7/14)

I'll be running 4mm wire as the max draw of these panels is less that 24A depending on the pumps. They are setup to only allow you to run 1 or the other heating element, although you can run a heating element and 2x pumps plus all the meters.

The Electric Brewery says its a 30A panel, i think it come down to the most common plug thats above the draw. I'm sourcing all Australian plugs in 25A instead of the twist lock stuff. 





Crouch said:


> The switches I was waiting on finally arrived today, so with those in place I attached the tags that came in a few days back and now the Control Panel looks very much the part ... the only challenge now is to actually make it work!



That panel looks amazing! did you do the paint job?


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## Crouch (29/7/14)

gava said:


> What gauge wire is that? You said you'll be running a 32amp control panel.. That wire doesn't look like 32amp wire, it more looks like 20amp.. might be a littler hard to see in the picture but thought I'd ask the question.
> 
> Gavin


I read your post on sjp770's thread about slowing things down and really understanding what you are doing (and playing with!) ... I've been shocked before on other things I've messed around with, not a pleasant feeling. I guess that's what forums like this are great for (and what sjp770 is doing better then me), communicating with people, asking questions etc. 

I never went ahead and asked, checked, I just went ahead and did it - might be the first of many problems? - the wiring is 2.5mm core, the 'recommended' wiring from 'the other site' (its beginning to feel like a bad word now) was 10 gauge - given we dont use AWG here I looked up the equivalent mm to 10 gauge, 2.59 - so I figured wire with a 2.5mm core would be fine ... I'm wrong, right?


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## Crouch (29/7/14)

sjp770 said:


> I'll be running 4mm wire as the max draw of these panels is less that 24A depending on the pumps. They are setup to only allow you to run 1 or the other heating element, although you can run a heating element and 2x pumps plus all the meters.
> 
> The Electric Brewery says its a 30A panel, i think it come down to the most common plug that's above the draw. I'm sourcing all Australian plugs in 25A instead of the twist lock stuff.
> 
> ...


4mm huh ... right. The only 4mm cables I have around the place are for my 3-phase equipment, does it really need to be so big?

Yeah, I painted that cabinet - same type of paint as you used, except a different colour.

Cheers


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## sjp770 (29/7/14)

Use the 4mm on the feed cables for the input and through the relays up to the SSR's and back to the heating elements sockets. Everything else should be OK being 2.5mm. I'm only running 2.5mm for now because I dont have the draw from the elements. Before they get connected i'll replace all of that wiring. (anything behind the 7A fast blow fuse should be 2.5mm, anything DC can be 300V Telphone type / speaker wire)

Obviously error check everything I say lol, I am getting a shafting in my thread for not understanding things before I did it.

What flex power cable did you use for your heating elements? I ended up with 6mm twin and earth flex from an irrigation shop for about $10/m. Overkill but not a bad idea

btw, im stripping my 4mm from twin and earth power cable meant for in the wall.


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## gava (29/7/14)

sjp770 said:


> Obviously error check everything I say lol, I am getting a shafting in my thread for not understanding things before I did it.


I'm not trying to shaft you, I've built a couple of panels before and want to give out some advice that I've learnt over the years.. hopefully you don't run into the same issues I did which hold your build back.. Also when ordering form aliexpress you can't really afford to blow up your bits or else it puts you back a min two weeks, average 1 month.. thats all. sorry if it came across as a lashing.. 

As for my gauge of cable, Not sure I went into a electrical store and ask for wire that handled 20amp I can't remember what it was.. 2.5mm sounds familiar 

Gavin


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## Crouch (29/7/14)

Yeah I noticed, but there have been some good posts ... I think all the site veterans have seen many people post about their panels and (rightly so) dont want any fellow brewers getting zapped by their breweries.

I've done loads of reading, on this site and the forum at kals site but I'm not feeling too confident any more. I thought I understood things well enough to 'have a go', but when you're playing with 240v I guess that's not good enough.

For instance, my elements are rigged to run off 2.5mm twin core with earth ... I've had them running and the cable didn't feel warm to me so I figured that would be fine ... might strip them back, undo all my wiring and start from the beginning, do more research and actually ask questions before i go ahead and 'have a go'


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## sjp770 (29/7/14)

My feed to the Shed is 4mm, and based on how its run it can support 25A load. General Cable state that it can take alot more, up to 39A when burried in ducts. 

Look at this page for the ratings, although thats with the extra white insulation and doesn't say about when its run in panels.

http://www.generalcable.com.au/getattachment/560b5019-35c2-4b28-bdb0-7e5abead163d

My father in law is a sparky as well and most sparkys will run slightly bigger than needed. Put it this way, would you downsize the normal panel wiring? if not why run the most demanding component on the same wire?


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## sjp770 (29/7/14)

gava said:


> I'm not trying to shaft you, I've built a couple of panels before and want to give out some advice that I've learnt over the years.. hopefully you don't run into the same issues I did which hold your build back.. Also when ordering form aliexpress you can't really afford to blow up your bits or else it puts you back a min two weeks, average 1 month.. thats all. sorry if it came across as a lashing..
> 
> As for my gauge of cable, Not sure I went into a electrical store and ask for wire that handled 20amp I can't remember what it was.. 2.5mm sounds familiar
> 
> Gavin


I deserve everything i'm getting there, don't get me wrong. In this case I think there are 3 types of posters, one that openly shares mistakes and risks the wrath of the internet, one that watches to see how the first one goes, and one that actually knows what they are doing commenting on the first one. In all cases as long as all three are there everyone learns


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## Crouch (29/7/14)

Righto ... so I'll just put this out there for 'feedback' from people who've done their panels - and may perhaps be familiar with the 'instructions' from Kal's website.

I am using Sestos PIDs & Timer so I am going to have to wire things up differently then his 'diagrams', thus there will be some reading and learning involved and this gives me time to ask, understand and comprehend the what's and why's of this control panel.

As far as components are concerned, I have followed Kal's build ... sourcing 240v components where necessary.

One issue I have seen on the forums at Kals site is the wiring requirements. In his instructions he references wiring up various parts of the control panel using various 'gauge' wiring, according to the AWG (American Wire Gauge) standards. As we don't use that standard I have been using this site as my reference for finding alternate cabling here in Australia.

Being the typical 'back-yard builder', I figured I could source cables either from Bunnings or Middys (where Bunnings didnt stock what I needed). As such, where Kal mentions using 10 gauge wire, I grabbed some of this flex cable and ripped out the cores. According to the site listed above, 10 gauge wire is the equivalent of a 2.59mm so being the 'back-yard builder' type I figured that would be fine. I did the same things for the 14 and 22 gauge wiring he lists.

_So my first question to those who have done their own panels _
How did you go about selecting your cables, did you rip the cores out of flex cable or buy rolls of single core cabling?

I have decided to use the larger 5500w elements (apparently I bought these in October last year!!), where as many people here seem to have used smaller wattage elements to avoid the issues with upgrading power circuits in their homes. Using smaller elements might have been a good idea, but as I eventually want to have an electric system capable of 100l batches I wanted the bigger elements. Given that, the cabling for those elements needs to be thicker. When I first got the elements, in my excitement to 'test them out' I rigged them up to a regular 10amp extension cord (which was probably 1mm 2 core + earth) ... needless to say that cable heated up pretty damn quick and I shut things down pretty damn quick.

Looking around at cabling now (and referencing our AWG conversion table) I noticed that there seems to be a difference between Diameter (mm) and Cross Sectional Area (mm2), and further looking around several sites (such as this one) always talk about the load of cable being measure in mm2. Many sites mention that a cable of 2.5mm2 is capable of running 20amps (there are some caveats I'll go into shortly), so again looking at our conversion table a cable with 2.5mm2 is roughly 13-14 gauge (1.6-1.8mm diameter). Therefore (again using my back-yard builder brain) I figured a cable with 2.5mm core (which I assumed to mean diameter) would be the equivalent of 10 gauge wire and thus ~5mm2. Therefore I have used this cable to run from my control panel to my elements, it seems to be sufficiently capable of running those elements - according to what I have just been through.

_My second question to those using larger wattage elements_
What cable did you use and how did you go about selecting it?

_(getting nervous about hitting the wrong key on the keyboard and losing this post, will continue shortly)_


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## Crouch (29/7/14)

_Continuing on from the previous post about wiring._

For my power in, I have chosen to use 4mm 2 core+earth cabling (from Middys) as according to my research is more then enough to support the draw of the approx 25amps the control panel will draw, given that one element, both pumps and all meters, lights etc are running.

For my pumps, I use the little green ones I have used a regular extension cable with 1.5mm cores as they draw very little amperage - according to the sticker on the side of the pumps.

So I have this:

Power cable = 4mm 2 core + earth
Element cables = 2.5mm 2 core + earth
Pump cables = 1.5mm 2 core + earth

Does anyone see anything wrong with this?

Onto the wiring inside the panel shortly.


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## sjp770 (29/7/14)

I know that post is for people with completed panels, but my basic theory was this:

- Strip wires from computer power leads. I know what sort of draw these can stand up to and i'm comfortable using them on 90% of the panel.
- Research to a great extent what current my 'current' shed circuit can handle based on 4mm2 cable. Get sparky to up the breaker, plan on a sub board. This is 25A btw.
- Use the same gauge wire that's running to my shed for the items using 90% of the current available.

I tried to match the flex cable I use as close as I could to Kals build but ended up just asking the local electrical wholesale place for twin and earth flex for up to 30A, they recommended 6mm flex.


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## Crouch (29/7/14)

Given my assumptions about the AWG Kal uses and the conversion chart, I have used 2.5mm core for the earth cables, and where Kal mentions using 14 gauge wire I have used 1.5mm core cabling.


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## Crouch (29/7/14)

sjp770 said:


> I know that post is for people with completed panels, but my basic theory was this:
> 
> - Strip wires from computer power leads. I know what sort of draw these can stand up to and i'm comfortable using them on 90% of the panel.
> - Research to a great extent what current my 'current' shed circuit can handle based on 4mm2 cable. Get sparky to up the breaker, plan on a sub board. This is 25A btw.
> ...


I might up things as they are for the elements and power-in cable, use 4mm for the elements and 6mm for the power-in.

I agree with your thoughts using computer leads for the internal wiring - we have an abundance of them hanging around the office, they come with every bloody server we buy and we've amassed boxes of them!

What cabling have you used (or thinking about using) for the smaller lower voltage/DC '24 gauge' sections of your panel?

Once I have my wiring choices under control, I'll then start drawing up my understanding of the circuit inside the panel and how it works. It's been many years since I've drawn an electrical diagram so I smash something out in visio (as Gaza did) and pop that up for feedback.

Cheers


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## sjp770 (29/7/14)

I just used speaker cable. Its bigger than the cable off 2A 12vdc power packs so it will be fine. The LM317's only support 1A and teh meters will use a lot less than that. I'm not sure if I will use the same for the SSR's. The good part about the speaker cable is it stands out as not AC Active or neutral colours.


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## gava (29/7/14)

POWER IN - 20amp rated wire which I sourced from bunnings (I know i was surprised to, ask a sparky for size etc sadly can't remember the size but was solid core)
INTERNALS ELEMENTS - Stripped 20amp wires for wiring to the elements
INTERNALS 10amp - Stripped some server IEC cables I got from work which we don't use.
PUMP EXTENSIONS - Got some 10amp cable from bunnings - green pumps don't require to much
INTERNAL 12vdc - Went to jaycar and got 12vdc rated wire, had a simple sign to follow for what you need.
EXTERNAL 12vdc electronic ball valves - Cat5e Networking cables

Sorry i didn't have and sizes etc but it was awhile ago..


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## Crouch (29/7/14)

gava said:


> POWER IN - 20amp rated wire which I sourced from bunnings (I know i was surprised to, ask a sparky for size etc sadly can't remember the size but was solid core)
> INTERNALS ELEMENTS - Stripped 20amp wires for wiring to the elements
> INTERNALS 10amp - Stripped some server IEC cables I got from work which we don't use.
> PUMP EXTENSIONS - Got some 10amp cable from bunnings - green pumps don't require to much
> ...


Thanks Gava.


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## sjp770 (29/7/14)

gava said:


> POWER IN - 20amp rated wire which I sourced from bunnings (I know i was surprised to, ask a sparky for size etc sadly can't remember the size but was solid core)
> INTERNALS ELEMENTS - Stripped 20amp wires for wiring to the elements
> INTERNALS 10amp - Stripped some server IEC cables I got from work which we don't use.
> PUMP EXTENSIONS - Got some 10amp cable from bunnings - green pumps don't require to much
> ...


Just for reference here, what size elements are you running Gav?


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## gava (29/7/14)

sjp770 said:


> Just for reference here, what size elements are you running Gav?


4800watt


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## Crouch (29/7/14)

Couple of pictures of the shunt that come with my amp meter


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## sjp770 (29/7/14)

Thanks for that. need to suss out if mine was wrong or something else killed the meter.. im certain it had the same rating on the side. Having those pics helps


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## Crouch (29/7/14)

I've started mounting components onto that back plate of the electrical box and needed something to lift the LM317 power supplies of the board (due to the mountings on the back of the circuit board).

Had a look in this box of bits (which I use for another hobby) thinking there must be something I can use:




I found several different pieces from various tank kits that I thought would be useful, and then found these wheel hub mountings:




They fit absolutely perfectly and worked a treat!




Now we continue the wait for the relays and transformers to arrive.


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## sjp770 (29/7/14)

nice, I shoved some rubber washers under mine, not the best solution as the whole unit wasn't very stable.


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## Crouch (29/7/14)

Yeah I first tried some EVA foam rubber, but that was too flexible and the whole boards shifted around. These are hard plastic so I was able to screw them down nice and tight ... they dont move now


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## mofox1 (31/7/14)

Crouch said:


> The HLT is complete, except for one bloody quick disconnect I forget to pick up when I went out for parts today! The HERMS coil is in place, it sits about 1" above the element (maybe a little less) so I hope there wont be any problems with scorching etc. I finally managed to get the element housing water tight ... so this put is pretty much good to go now.


What did you use for the water in/return bulkhead?

Bloody nice setup BTW. Wish I'd gone for the longer stainless bench - 1.5m is big enough for my two pots and esky mash tun, but it might be a be squeezy when I replace the esky and (maybe/probably) get a small herms pot. Maybe the herms can go underneath somehow?.... :huh:


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## Crouch (31/7/14)

Yeah, I bought the longer bench with the view to changing the pots to 150 litres. Knowing me, that probably wont be too far in the future, I almost bought 3 the other night after a few drinks even though I've never brewed with these!

It's just a simple ball valve with a SS washer and silicon o-ring on the outside, and another o-ring and washer on the inside, held together with a SS nut.


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## mofox1 (31/7/14)

And, I assume, a piece of external threaded pipe through the middle?

I was planning on using a threaded to compression bulkhead from Connor Breware, and a 90deg dip tube (tilted / bent to the side) from Full Pint for mine - exactly as per the ball valves on the front of my BK & HLT.

Pic of the bulkhead from Connor Breware:





At $20 ea I think it works out economical, considering you don't need additonal compression fittings or lock nuts.

If you zoom in (and squint a bit), you can see them in action on my kettle in my gallery pics (posting links instead of pics to keep your build thread relatively clean!) - external & internal of kettle.

I'm planning to use these for every bulkhead on the HLT & BK - possibly on the MT as well if I use stainless tube for the manifold and sparge arm.


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## Crouch (31/7/14)

Ha! I was also looking at these today but from aliexpress, $20 is a good price I reckon. I'd use them.


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## Crouch (1/8/14)

Well, I just got back from Middy's, where I asked them about the wiring for my 30amp control panel. They can't 'recommend' what I should use but 'suggested' that 4mm core will be fine for carrying 30amps, and the 2.5mm will be fine for 20amps. SOOO ... I have to re-wire a bunch of stuff in my panel. I've been asking all over the place (here, other forums etc) so its good to get some 'clarification' from them (as well as people here), feeling much more at easy now. Still waiting on some components to arrive so there is no rush, but the only frustrating thing is the cables I used for the elements (2.5mm which need to be changed to 4mm now) I had wrapped in some expandable cable braiding so they were all pretty, I'll need to strip that all back now, but like I said ... much more at ease.

Cheers


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## sjp770 (1/8/14)

Its good to know though  what parts are you waiting before your first brew?


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## Grainer (1/8/14)

very sexy


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## Crouch (1/8/14)

waiting on the relays and the transformers


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## sjp770 (1/8/14)

mofox1 said:


> And, I assume, a piece of external threaded pipe through the middle?
> 
> I was planning on using a threaded to compression bulkhead from Connor Breware, and a 90deg dip tube (tilted / bent to the side) from Full Pint for mine - exactly as per the ball valves on the front of my BK & HLT.
> 
> ...


Ordered 3x, thanks!


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## bazfletch3 (4/8/14)

Hey Crouch

Just wanted to chime in and say that although I agree entirely with what middy's told you about cable sizing, I'd be cautious following any "suggestions" from them; or any other type of trade wholesaler for that matter. You never know whether the guy behind the counter has any reliable knowledge (educated or by experience), or whether they are just "counter jockeys" who know how to type a part number into a computer and walk to a shelf! There's plenty of both sorts!!



Baz


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## Crouch (4/8/14)

bazfletch3 said:


> Hey Crouch
> 
> Just wanted to chime in and say that although I agree entirely with what middy's told you about cable sizing, I'd be cautious following any "suggestions" from them; or any other type of trade wholesaler for that matter. You never know whether the guy behind the counter has any reliable knowledge (educated or by experience), or whether they are just "counter jockeys" who know how to type a part number into a computer and walk to a shelf! There's plenty of both sorts!!
> 
> ...


Thanks Baz

This has been the biggest issue with my build so far, just trying to get an answer to which cabling to use, even two electricians I have spoken to gave me two different answers. Part of the reason why I asked (further up in my thread) what other people who have built a similar panel have done, yet despite the seemingly numerous builds, got very little response too.

Anyway, appreciate the post. I'll push ahead with the 4mm and 2.5mm wiring unless someone who has actually built the same panel (or similar) with the same 5500w elements has anything else to add.

Cheers


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## Crouch (9/8/14)

It's taken some doing (and MANY trips to Middys to find the right cable) but we have POWER!




Very exciting, on with the rest of the wiring ... and hopefully we'll be brewing this week!


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## sjp770 (9/8/14)

Nice! Good pic BTW, what camera are you using?
I see you have the same issue with the sestos PID's plastic facias lifting


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## Crouch (9/8/14)

sjp770 said:


> Nice! Good pic BTW, what camera are you using?


It's a Canon 60D ... I've always been 'interested' in photography but never really done anything about it bar buying this camera. I should probably get around to 'taking some lessons' ... once the brewery is done!


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## sjp770 (9/8/14)

Lol, I have a Canon 5D mkii but somehow all my pics get taken with the mobile  

Nice to see you're using it


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## Crouch (11/8/14)

Been able to grab a bit of time to get most of the wiring complete. The pumps are working, the elements are working, the PIDs are working ... need to complete some minor wiring for the timer (then testing). At this point I haven't wired up the AMP and VOLT meters, given they can be a little 'fiddly', I've left them till the very end, after all they are not necessary for the unit to run nor of any use in actually brewing.

In this pic the water pump is recirculating water in the HLT, whilst the element heats it up 

Progress!


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## sjp770 (11/8/14)

Looking good, will you be adding a name plate?


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## Steve (11/8/14)

Crouch said:


> Been able to grab a bit of time to get most of the wiring complete. The pumps are working, the elements are working, the PIDs are working ... need to complete some minor wiring for the timer (then testing). At this point I haven't wired up the AMP and VOLT meters, given they can be a little 'fiddly', I've left them till the very end, after all they are not necessary for the unit to run nor of any use in actually brewing.
> 
> In this pic the water pump is recirculating water in the HLT, whilst the element heats it up
> 
> ...


That mate is a work of art. Hope your first brew day is a good one. Post pics.
Cheers
Steve


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## Crouch (11/8/14)

sjp770 said:


> Looking good, will you be adding a name plate?


I'd like to, but haven't sorted out a logo for the name yet - maybe get a couple done up on fiverr 

Currently auto-tuning the PIDS, though I did forget to calibrate them against another thermometer first, so am hoping I can do that after they have been auto-tuned. It shouldn't be a problem though (according to my growing understanding) in that the auto-tune function only 'teaches' the PID how to react (heat, dont heat etc) in the setup I have to maintain the SV.


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## Crouch (11/8/14)

Steve said:


> That mate is a work of art. Hope your first brew day is a good one. Post pics.
> Cheers
> Steve


Thanks mate, nothing I can really take credit for though - it's pretty much a Kal clone. There will be pics, and most probably some video for my youtube channel also


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## brewologist (11/8/14)

Crouch said:


> I'll push ahead with the 4mm and 2.5mm wiring unless someone who has actually built the same panel (or similar) with the same 5500w elements has anything else to add.


I have the same 5500w element in my pot (recirc BIAB). IIRC I got a sparky to install a 25amp circuit for that element. He made an extension lead out of welder power cable, anyway thats what he called it. Its real thick. I had to extend the extension lead with some of the Bunnings 4mm stuff (heaviest gage they've got). It gets a little warm but hasn't melted yet 

Some first hand experience for ya. 

Your 'Brew Cave' looks awesome.


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## Crouch (11/8/14)

Thanks for the feedback, I picked up my cable from Middys - I couldnt mind any 4mm stuff at Bunnings, though I was only looking at orange flex cable. I had my elements running for around an hour tonight and couldn't feel any heat in the cable at all, in fact they were slightly cold?

It's a pretty extravagant indulgence that place ... fun place to faff around


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