# Fg - 1.018?



## thomasando (13/6/12)

I've had a Coopers Sparkling Ale kit in the fermenter for about a week and a half now. See my other thread (http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=65249) for some background on it (yeast pitch too hot, boiled can extract etc).

I've been watching the SG readings and it has been stopped now for a couple of days, at 1.018. According to the recipe the final gravity should be around 1.005, and according to the iBrewMaster iPad app, it should be 1.008 (though I'm not 100% sure if I've utilised the app correctly to get the calculations). Temperature has been steady at 20 degrees for the last 6 days.

Is it finished fermenting and ready to be bottled despite the higher reading?

I checked the hydrometer in tap water - bang on 1.000.


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## Yob (13/6/12)

Have you tried a fast ferment test? 

Options.

1: Take a sample in a small jar or whatever and warm it right up (Not hot clearly, but warmer than the normal fermenting temps) and shake the shit out of it repeatedly, if you notice that the SG drops in this sample (over a few days) you know the wort has further to go.

2: Sanitize a big old spoon and gently give the bottom of the FV a stir to re-suspend the yeast, this will wake them up and get them going again.

Yob

PS. If it were me I would have posted this question at the end of the other thread so all the relevant info was all in the one place


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## thomasando (13/6/12)

iamozziyob said:


> Have you tried a fast ferment test?
> 
> 
> PS. If it were me I would have posted this question at the end of the other thread so all the relevant info was all in the one place


Nope, I haven't. I shall do that this afternoon. In fact I'll do both this afternoon - is there any harm in giving it a stir regardless?

I did consider posting it in the other thread, but thought it might be worthy of its own topic. Ahh well.


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## glenwal (13/6/12)

thomasando said:


> Is it finished fermenting and ready to be bottled despite the higher reading?


Do you tip out the 1st bit that you draw off from that tap? Often the trub will settle in the tap so if you take a reading from the 1st bit it will give you a higher reading.



thomasando said:


> I've been watching the SG readings


Also, there's no reason to "watch" the SG. Leave it for 2 weeks, then take a reading. If its in the ballpark then leave it a few days before you take another reading. Then if its steady, leave it yet another week.

I know you're eager to get drinking, but your beer will be better with a bit of patience and time.


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## bum (13/6/12)

Glen W said:


> Often the trub will settle in the tap so if you take a reading from the 1st bit it will give you a higher reading.


Do you crash chill your samples so there's less yeast in there as well? I don't know why this advice keeps popping up. It makes no sense. Hydrometers measure gravity of a solution. Trub is not in solution. The sample would have to be very turbid indeed to either stop the hydrometer from sinking or to sit on top of it to push it down. Most people would call that "mud" and advice to tip a sample like that shouldn't really be required.



Glen W said:


> Also, there's no reason to "watch" the SG. Leave it for 2 weeks, then take a reading.


Even if a brewer thinks a beer has stalled early? What if it has stalled early? Wait 2 weeks before you even think about doing anything about it? Yeah, there's no reason to be taking samples every day but if you think you need to take one then do.


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## thomasando (13/6/12)

bum said:


> Even if a brewer thinks a beer has stalled early? What if it has stalled early? Wait 2 weeks before you even think about doing anything about it? Yeah, there's no reason to be taking samples every day but if you think you need to take one then do.


I took a sample 24hrs after putting it in to make sure it was fermenting. Didn't take anything for a week, only took it to check progress as it had stopped bubbling. Took one, waited 2 days, then took another one. Took another the next day (yesterday) - same readings. I'm just trying to determine if it is ready to bottle as I've got a busy weekend and week next week - if it's ready to bottle then I want to knock it out before the weekend while I still have some time. If it's not then I'll do whatever I need to get it going again, and leave it.

I'm new at this, might seem like a basic question for some but trying to learn good habits from the start


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## pcmfisher (13/6/12)

With that much liquid/dry malt plus a kit you will struggle to get it down below 1.015. You've probably got a few points to go but there is no way it will get down to 1.008 or 1.005.

IMHO that recipe is a shocking recommendation from Coopers.


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## glenwal (13/6/12)

bum said:


> Do you crash chill your samples so there's less yeast in there as well? I don't know why this advice keeps popping up. It makes no sense. Hydrometers measure gravity of a solution. Trub is not in solution. The sample would have to be very turbid indeed to either stop the hydrometer from sinking or to sit on top of it to push it down. Most people would call that "mud" and advice to tip a sample like that shouldn't really be required.


Trub isn't in the solution in the fermenter, but from my experience the trub that settles in the tap mixes up pretty well into the sample when you draw it off. It won't cause your sample to become a thick mud, but it doesn't take much to change a reading from say 1.012 (where people would say its probably done) to 1.018 (where people would say its not done).

This is of course my experience - your experience may vary. Maybe I have more trub in my beer than you do, or maybe my tap is lower down and hence gets more trub in it, or maybe its even the angle i hold my sample tube at causes it to mix up more than the way you do it - who knows.



bum said:


> Even if a brewer thinks a beer has stalled early? What if it has stalled early? Wait 2 weeks before you even think about doing anything about it? Yeah, there's no reason to be taking samples every day but if you think you need to take one then do.


You are right and I definately agree that take one if you think you need to, but that said - from the posts i've seen on these forums, most times a new brewer thinks he needs to he really just needs to leave it. And whilst testing constantly doesn't do any direct harm - i still believe the best lesson a new brewer can learn is patience.


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## wyane (13/6/12)

hi Tom - I bottled my 2nd batch following this recipe in mid-April. Have about 5 bottles left and it is very nice.

From my notes i got OG/FG of 1046/1010 for a 23L wort.

The most likely thing is that your brew is still slowly and happily working away. There's nothing worse than filling your last bottle and then looking into the bottom of the fermenter to see bubbles still rising from the sediment.

Also there's probably no need to check the hydrometer so often. Early on, it should be obvious that things are working. At constant 20C, you might not need to check until 8-10 days in.

edit: FWIW i checked my brew log and your orginal post ... i pitched hot also! 30C
was down to 20C 1st morning, maintained 20-22C and bottled on day 10


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## bum (13/6/12)

Glen W said:


> Trub isn't in the solution in the fermenter


Nor is it in solution in any sample. That's why it is trub. If it were in solution it would be beer. Trub _can_ have an effect on a reading but the greatest (informed) difference I can find from anyone online is cited as being "up to one point" - most such commentators go on to talk about how must people don't use their gear in a way they'd spot the difference anyway. It is completely irrelevant to homebrewers.



Glen W said:


> I still believe the best lesson a new brewer can learn is patience.


Patience is the hardest lesson for a new brewer to learn for sure but that doesn't mean there aren't eqally important things to learn - such as what hydrometer readings mean and when might be a good time to take one. Waiting two weeks as a blanket rule is pretty unhelpful - especially in regards to a stalled ferment.


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## roverfj1200 (13/6/12)

What I do is let it ferment and each day take a look at the color of the wort.I don't open the fermenter. At the end of the ferment you will see the color of the wort clear (Drop Bright ) the yeast has finished and fallen out of suspension. Take your first reading then. Also at this stage the foam that formed on the top has collapsed as well. 

This can take from 4 days to 3 weeks to happen depending on yeast, temp, and wort.

Patience is golden.

Give it a stir if you must but be clean and gentle.

Cheers


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## Eyelusion (13/6/12)

I've just bottled a coopers sparkling ale kit and it had finished at 1.008. Took just over 2 and a half weeks at 18 degrees and was at this reading for 3 consec days.
Just be patient.
:icon_cheers:


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## thomasando (13/6/12)

Eyelusion said:


> I've just bottled a coopers sparkling ale kit and it had finished at 1.008. Took just over 2 and a half weeks at 18 degrees and was at this reading for 3 consec days.
> Just be patient.
> :icon_cheers:



OK no worries. I'll take this all on board. Sounds like I'll be leaving it for a little longer at any rate


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## thomasando (22/6/12)

thomasando said:


> OK no worries. I'll take this all on board. Sounds like I'll be leaving it for a little longer at any rate


Right so I gave it a stir and left it another week. Checked the reading this morning - still 1.018 (maybe ever so slightly under). I'll bottle it this weekend anyway and see what happens. 

It looks great and tastes amazing and I'm keen to get my next batch going to try and overcome the mistakes I made with this one .


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## dkaos (22/6/12)

Mate if you are bottling at 1018 you can probably expect bombs. Don't be crazy! Serious injury might result. Leave it for 4 weeks max and see how it goes to get down to final SG.


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## Dunkelbrau (22/6/12)

I'd be leaving it for a while after stirring, messing up the wort will result in cloudiness wouldn't it?


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## roller997 (22/6/12)

What was your original measured Original Gravity?

I have bottled beer at higher gravities than yours, however they started off with a very high OG and they didn't explode either. 

Also, if you are going to bottle and you suspect it may continue to ferment out a bit more, I would add a little less priming sugar and invest in the brown plastic bottles. that way you could release some pressure and you don't risk at hurting yourself or others if the yeast has not finished yet.

Stiring would result in temporary cloudiness but if the yeast gets going again it is likely to be not as bright anyhow.

From my limited experience I found that if the yeast has been stressed or is too old, it is likey to finish short of consuming all the fermentables. The issue is that once you add more priming fermentable substance and give it a lot of time, it often decides to finish the other fermentable sugars and you can expect over carbonated beer and if you use glass bottles, it could become extremely dangerous.

Here are a few more drastic things you could try to get it going again if you don't want to use plastic for bottling:
1. Add some yeast nutrients and to stir the beer very gently. If you don't have yeast nutrient, you could try is to boil up some dry yeast (and I suspect bread yeast would be fine for this) and add it to your brew as it acts as nutrients for your existing yeast.
2. Pitch more active yeast to try to ferment out the remaining fermtable sugars - Make a very small starter and use a new packet of Ale yeast. When it is most active, pitch it into to your fermenter and take a reading a week later.

How did the suggested rapid ferment test go?


Regards

Roller


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## thomasando (22/6/12)

Clints Gadgets said:


> Mate if you are bottling at 1018 you can probably expect bombs. Don't be crazy! Serious injury might result. Leave it for 4 weeks max and see how it goes to get down to final SG.


It's been in for 3 weeks, reading hasn't changed for 2. Surely another week isn't going to make that much of a difference?




Jurt said:


> I'd be leaving it for a while after stirring, messing up the wort will result in cloudiness wouldn't it?


Stirred it a week ago and it's settled (as near as I can tell, anyway)




Roller997 said:


> What was your original measured Original Gravity?


1.055




Roller997 said:


> invest in the brown plastic bottles. that way you could release some pressure and you don't risk at hurting yourself or others if the yeast has not finished yet.


I only have plastic bottles, so no issue there.



Roller997 said:


> How did the suggested rapid ferment test go?


Knew I forgot something!!  

If I was to add additional yeast to try and get it going again, how much should I do? Eg. if I bought a small packet of dry yeast, how much should I use (either dry or rehydrated)? Would there be any harm in using it all?


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## Arghonaut (22/6/12)

I only skimmed the thread, but have you checked your hydro's calibration? Test it in some clean tap water, should read 1000. If its higher or lower, you need to adjust by that amount.


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## thomasando (22/6/12)

Arghonaut said:


> I only skimmed the thread, but have you checked your hydro's calibration? Test it in some clean tap water, should read 1000. If its higher or lower, you need to adjust by that amount.


Yeah I did, bang on 1000.


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## mwd (22/6/12)

I should not be overly concerned if I was you my Kits and Bits never get much below 1.018 and have never got bottle bombs or sweet tasting beer so far. If it has fallen clear after the stirring I would consider bottling. Seeing as you are using PET you should be O.K. just do a hardness check every week it will be really obvious if the bottles bulge if you are getting overcarbonation.


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## roller997 (22/6/12)

If you wanted to add yeast, it would be best to get a bit more DME, boil it up, cool it down and use a sanatized bottle to start a fermentation with hydrated yeast. Once it gets going, pour that into the fermenter and hope it finishes any fermentables off.
If you just pitch yeast into an almost finished fermentation, I suspect it isn't going to be too happy to start.

Otherwise +1 to the above since you are using plastic anyhow.

Cheers

Roller


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## manticle (22/6/12)

While I'd recommend trying every trick in the book when a beer finishes much above 1015 (exceptions include massively high gravity beers, beers with loads of unfermentables like maltodextrin, lactose, even lots of roasted grain), your recipe and my experience don't make 1018 sound too crazy.

Fast ferment test as suggested by Yob in the first reply is always the best way to work it out.


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## bum (23/6/12)

I'd be bottling but consider priming as low as you think you can tolerate. I recall a brew that had a similar story to yours and I ended up bottling at 1018 after trying every trick in the book. After a month or so in the bottle they were definitely overcarbed. If you don't think your batch will hang around that long just bottle as per usual and hook in.


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## thomasando (25/6/12)

I ended up bottling.

I'm using iBrewMaster on the iPad to assist with record keeping etc. I rechecked everything I put in and it recalculated the FG as 1015. I took a reading just prior to bottling last night which was 1016.

I now have 28 plastic bottles full of beer on their 2 week wait. Tasted delicious when I was bottling (albeit flat) so we shall see.

I'm hoping to make up another batch of the same beer at some point in the next fortnight without making the mistakes I made this time (hopefully!) to see how it compares.

Thanks all very much for your help . I'll keep you posted on how it is when I taste it.


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## thomasando (10/7/12)

thomasando said:


> I'll keep you posted on how it is when I taste it.



I've knocked off a few bottles of this now. The first couple tasted like carbonation drops. The later ones don't have that taste.

They're a little flat and I can't get a lot of head on them, though the longer I leave them the better this gets. I do suspect I didn't rinse very well when I cleaned the bottles.

It's very drinkable though, and I've got another batch that's been bubbling away in the fermenter for the past 9 days, so I'm keen to see how they compare!


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## syl (11/7/12)

thomasando said:


> I've knocked off a few bottles of this now. The first couple tasted like carbonation drops. The later ones don't have that taste.
> 
> They're a little flat and I can't get a lot of head on them, though the longer I leave them the better this gets. I do suspect I didn't rinse very well when I cleaned the bottles.
> 
> It's very drinkable though, and I've got another batch that's been bubbling away in the fermenter for the past 9 days, so I'm keen to see how they compare!



Generally they need 3 weeks in bottles to get there, sometimes longer if the yeast is stressed.

Once you've got these two done, you should add some specialty grains and do a little boil of hops with flavours you like!!


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## thomasando (15/7/12)

syl said:


> Generally they need 3 weeks in bottles to get there, sometimes longer if the yeast is stressed.
> 
> Once you've got these two done, you should add some specialty grains and do a little boil of hops with flavours you like!!


Just cracked one that has been sitting in the fridge for the last week. It has a gorgeous head and perfect bubbles. Didn't get a pic of it though, will post one soon .


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## hoppy2B (15/7/12)

I've had bottles carb in 3 days down here in Adelaide in September. I'm surprised its taking so long for my brews to carb up at this time of year. I mustn't have been paying too much notice of carb times in past years. :blink: 
Nice to hear you're enjoying your new found hobby thomasando.


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## syl (15/7/12)

I hate bottling. I am a freaking lazy brewer! Dropping a batch down tomorrow and will post some pics. 

Glad you're enjoying it mate, kits are great to get in to it!


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## JakeSm (16/7/12)

just skimmed through but having a winemaker as a mentor has taught me that if a ferment has stalled than the yeast have aften runout of nutrients, therefore the yeast will try and find them in old dead yeast cells, (this is called cysteen, dont quote me on the spelling) this is often described as sulphery or a rotten eggy smell....to get your yeast happy and working again all it takes is a good stir and some diamonium phosphate (which is nutrient salts) do not add these salts at the start or at the end of the brew as you need these to be completly eaten by the yeast or else you could have a bad bacterial reaction in your bottles. you only need to add 1/2 teaspoon for 25L due to the fack that this will create healthy working yeast when the old ones multiply....i hope this helps next time...


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