# Tobacco Beer



## tcraig20 (18/5/09)

I noticed a reference to this beer in one of my books the other night: 

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/birra-del-bor...er/68567/10185/

Keto RePorter, tobacco infused porter. Sounds interesting. Anyone tried it? 

Im guessing that it would just be a porter with some tobacco "dry hopped" in it?


----------



## newguy (18/5/09)

Mmmmmmm. Mouth cancer. :icon_drool2: 

:huh: :icon_vomit:


----------



## Bizier (18/5/09)

I added a cigar scroll to the boil on a dark beer once.

You would have to be an extremely light hand with steeping or boiling tobacco, it is a pretty hectic poison.


----------



## Tony M (18/5/09)

In the early days of of the colony in NSW when hops were rarely available, desperate brewers tried all sorts of stuff to bitter their brews including tobacco and the local Australian flora. Mmmm, eucalyptus ale!


----------



## tcraig20 (18/5/09)

Bizier said:


> I added a cigar scroll to the boil on a dark beer once.
> 
> You would have to be an extremely light hand with steeping or boiling tobacco, it is a pretty hectic poison.



Yeah, I remember reading something about tobacco extract (more or less refined nicotine) years ago. A couple of drops are enough to kill. 

Still, I think that it would be interesting to try - perhaps Im just being overcome with memories of alcohol-infused tobacco. Not too paranoid about cancer - I doubt the odd fag (or tobacco-infused beer) is any worse than waiting for a bus on a busy corner.


----------



## petesbrew (18/5/09)

Being a non-smoker I get the following vision.
A near empty schooner of tooheys old, with 1cm warm liquid at the bottom, complete with a floating cigarette butt and a smattering of ash...

My mouth is watering.


----------



## Bizier (18/5/09)

My dad once told me that you can spray a small fruit orchard with a boiled pouch of tobacco.

As a non smoker I really dislike the effects of nicotine, so I would stick to tobacco-like products like Hersbruk + Brett + oak etc


----------



## j1gsaw (18/5/09)

Actually i made a nut brown ale and put a wad of tobacco in for the final 15 mins of the boil, cant say i can taste it, and its too bloody dear to be just chuckin away.


----------



## tcraig20 (18/5/09)

Bizier said:


> My dad once told me that you can spray a small fruit orchard with a boiled pouch of tobacco.



I'd believe it. Might be a bit of an exageration, but not too much. 



> As a non smoker I really dislike the effects of nicotine, so I would stick to tobacco-like products like Hersbruk + Brett + oak etc



Ex smoker here. I enjoyed the effect of nicotine well enough. Hit some hard times when I was at uni, literally didnt have the money for tobacco for a couple of months, enough to break the habit. When I had money again, I never bothered anymore. Dodged a bullet perhaps. I still do enjoy the VERY OCCASIONAL cigar (maybe two in the last 8 years). 

I'd still be interested to try this, I dont think it could be any worse than a 'cheese and horse-blanket' lambic...


----------



## Screwtop (18/5/09)

Tobacco is a pretty safe drug, the delivery method (smoking) is risky. Maybe this is the answer :lol:

Screwy


----------



## staggalee (18/5/09)

j1gsaw said:


> Actually i made a nut brown ale and put a wad of tobacco in for the final 15 mins of the boil, cant say i can taste it, and its too bloody dear to be just chuckin away.



Yikes!
That`s interesting. How much is a wad?

stagga.


----------



## Quintrex (18/5/09)

Hmmm I had an beer from Alsace that I swear tasted like tabacco, wish I had of got it's name. Or else someone just stuck their butt's in the keg. . It was quite pleasant in small amounts in this french kinda lager. I could imagine in a darker beer it could be awesome. I'd add it in secondary like oak, it'll keep the volatiles in and allow you to control the amount of flavour more.

Q


----------



## jimbo82 (18/5/09)

MMMM port royal rum n wine 

Just the ticket to get all the ex-smokers smoking again!

Goddamn nicotine addiction!


----------



## tcraig20 (18/5/09)

Quintrex said:


> I'd add it in secondary like oak, it'll keep the volatiles in and allow you to control the amount of flavour more.



I think thats the point of it Quintrex - tobacco flavour and aroma rather than getting a kick like a cigarette. 

Some have gone straight to dog ends and durry butts. I imagine something more like the aroma of a tin of Dr Pat's pipe tobacco. I think the way to achieve this would be to 'dry hop' it like I said in the first post - boiling may drive off the volatiles, and introduce unwanted flavours (like tannins in grain).


----------



## winkle (18/5/09)

One of the Micheal Jackson books talked about a beer flavoured with tobacco, I'll have a look this evening.


----------



## sinkas (18/5/09)

Bizier said:


> As a non smoker I really dislike the effects of nicotine, so I would stick to tobacco-like products like Hersbruk + Brett + oak etc




How do you know if you aint tried it?

Back in the mid 90's med students were taught that nicotine itself was a carcinogen, or atleast had direct mutative effect on DNA in lung tissue when tobacco was smoked

I think beer drinkers lambasting smokers, is almost as hard to cope with as dope smokers ranting against tobacco smokers,


----------



## chappo1970 (18/5/09)

Now if could have a nicotine hit and a beer in one (without the lung cancer) I would be a happy man! Shyte faced 90% of the waking day but none the less happy. Prolly need a liver transplant then? <_< 

Cheers

Chappo


----------



## Bizier (18/5/09)

sinkas said:


> How do you know if you aint tried it?
> 
> Back in the mid 90's med students were taught that nicotine itself was a carcinogen, or atleast had direct mutative effect on DNA in lung tissue when tobacco was smoked
> 
> I think beer drinkers lambasting smokers, is almost as hard to cope with as dope smokers ranting against tobacco smokers,



That admittedly sounded hypocritical. I used to smoke cigarettes, and I enjoyed a cigar as recently as Feb this year. I meant from a personal position, I dislike the effects of the drug nicotine on my person, it makes me feel ill.

I feel that if you are adding tobacco to a beer, especially in the boil, you have a chance of delivering a large dose of nicotine into your body, especially if you have a few beers. The effects of this might be negative.

ED: I don't give a flying **** what smokers do if they keep it out of my face.


----------



## Northside Novice (18/5/09)

I have heard of a comercial beer from germany called Nicoshot.
I have not tried it but is aparently to help you give up smoking ? They use an extact of tobacco leaf added and the end of the fermetation, bit like dry hopping i guess.


----------



## staggalee (18/5/09)

northside novice said:


> I have heard of a comercial beer from germany called Nicoshot.
> I have not tried it but is aparently to help you give up smoking ? They use an extact of tobacco leaf added and the end of the fermetation, bit like dry hopping i guess.



Don`t do it....washing powder is expensive.






 

stagga.


----------



## j1gsaw (18/5/09)

a wad as in 50gm pouch of "Bank" actually... 23$ and cant even taste it! doh!


----------



## staggalee (18/5/09)

yeah but those skidmarks are an accident waiting to happen  
It`s just not worth risking.

stagga.


----------



## j1gsaw (18/5/09)

yeah true, but a bottle of bundy can have the same affect!


----------



## tcraig20 (18/5/09)

Bizier said:


> That admittedly sounded hypocritical. I used to smoke cigarettes, and I enjoyed a cigar as recently as Feb this year. I meant from a personal position, I dislike the effects of the drug nicotine on my person, it makes me feel ill.
> 
> I feel that if you are adding tobacco to a beer, especially in the boil, you have a chance of delivering a large dose of nicotine into your body, especially if you have a few beers. The effects of this might be negative.
> 
> ED: I don't give a flying **** what smokers do if they keep it out of my face.



Obviously, too much nicotine is going to kill you. But the effects of nicotine are relatively short-lived. Thats why my old man used to be able to smoke in excess of 120 Peter Jacksons a day. You'd want to be very careful about how much you add - I certainly wouldnt add any more than about 1-2 cigarettes of tobacco per litre.

Probably wouldnt be too bright to actually smoke while you drank it either.


----------



## staggalee (18/5/09)

JamesCraig said:


> Obviously, too much nicotine is going to kill you. But the effects of nicotine are relatively short-lived. Thats why my old man used to be able to smoke in excess of 120 Peter Jacksons a day. You'd want to be very careful about how much you add - I certainly wouldnt add any more than about 1-2 cigarettes of tobacco per litre.
> 
> Probably wouldnt be too bright to actually smoke while you drank it either.



120 a day? Assuming he lit up at 6 am. and smoked nonstop for 16 hours till 10pm, he`d be smoking a cigarette non stop every 7 or 8 minutes for 16 hours.
Some sort of record there surely.

stagga.


----------



## Swinging Beef (18/5/09)

Oh, man... Imperial Stout infused with Tobacco and Ristretto coffee!
Imagine that!


----------



## Quintrex (18/5/09)

Swinging Beef said:


> Oh, man... Imperial Stout infused with Tobacco and Ristretto coffee!
> Imagine that!



French Breakfast?


----------



## tcraig20 (18/5/09)

staggalee said:


> 120 a day? Assuming he lit up at 6 am. and smoked nonstop for 16 hours till 10pm, he`d be smoking a cigarette non stop every 7 or 8 minutes for 16 hours.
> Some sort of record there surely.
> 
> stagga.



Yep. More or less. I cant remember seeing him without one in his mouth before I was about 10.

Edit: Actually, it might have been 90 - I remember it being 3 packs a day, but I think he smoke PJs, which came in a 30 pack. He was an absolute chain smoker at that stage.


----------



## Bizier (18/5/09)

JamesCraig said:


> Obviously, too much nicotine is going to kill you. But the effects of nicotine are relatively short-lived.



Method of extraction will come into this.
It is my opinion that a sizable dose of nicotine will be undesirable for most people.

j1gsaw, I am waiting to see your final first hand verdict with 50g of Bank.

I want to see someone do a pouch of White Ox at 90mins. :icon_vomit:


----------



## tcraig20 (18/5/09)

Bizier said:


> Method of extraction will come into this.
> It is my opinion that a sizable dose of nicotine will be undesirable for most people.



Yes, that is the big variable. I think its important to remember that tobacco (from my point of view) would be added for flavour and aroma, not nicotine. The question is little do you need to achieve a flavour/aroma and how much is 'safe'. 



> I want to see someone do a pouch of White Ox at 90mins. :icon_vomit:



Only if you are brewing in a prison dunny :lol:


----------



## staggalee (18/5/09)

JamesCraig said:


> Yep. More or less. I cant remember seeing him without one in his mouth before I was about 10.


Awesome.
When you look at a performance like that, the Marlboro Man doesn`t get a look in.
Just another whitewash for those pissant Yanks. :beerbang: 

stagga.


----------



## Swinging Beef (18/5/09)

So.. crappping and bullshitting aside.. has anyone actually done a "bakky" beer?


----------



## staggalee (18/5/09)

few here
sorry


stagga.


edit......they did the baccy beer......
it fuckin killed em :lol:


----------



## hoppinmad (18/5/09)

that smooth smooth taste :chug:


----------



## BennyBrewster (18/5/09)

HoppinMad said:


> that smooth smooth taste :chug:



hahahaha gold!


----------



## j1gsaw (18/5/09)

The brown ale i did with the 50gm of bank (i had one tonite just for shits n giggles reasons), and it seems to have taken on a diffrent flavour, a bit like, dare i say it.... drinking ciggerette stained water..... then again, could be the 2kg of dex i put with it too... sighhhh, i wouldnt do it again.


----------



## Cummins (18/5/09)

Reading one of the ratebeer reviews it notes "Aroma is tobacco (snus)", which poses the question why not put some snus in secondary?

Or have a cigarette at the same time as drinking, or strap one under your nose if you just want the aroma.


----------



## tcraig20 (18/5/09)

Cummins said:


> Or have a cigarette at the same time as drinking, or strap one under your nose if you just want the aroma.



Burning and inhaling tobacco has an entirely different taste and aroma to actual tobacco.

As for holding something under your nose for aroma, I think you just saved me 5 minute hop additions from now on - just make up a wee baggie of my favourite hops .


----------



## dr K (18/5/09)

> Yeah, I remember reading something about tobacco extract (more or less refined nicotine) years ago. A couple of drops are enough to kill.


Forgive me, this is from memory (a pre google concept)
In the first quarter of the last century there used to be a product called " Blackleaf 40", this was a tabacco extract used as some sort of a *cide (fungicide, insecticide,herbicide, you get the picture). Workers processing this could and did die if some was spilt on them. The nicotine was absorbed through the skin, nicotine despite what smokers may say and think is a powerfull stimulant (the relaxtion or stress relief from the fag is merely proof of addiction) and an OD = Death. 


K


----------



## pdilley (18/5/09)

JamesCraig said:


> Burning and inhaling tobacco has an entirely different taste and aroma to actual tobacco.
> 
> As for holding something under your nose for aroma, I think you just saved me 5 minute hop additions from now on - just make up a wee baggie of my favourite hops .



Now in large scale processing, high concentrations can lead to deaths. Its a cardio stimulant and will send your heart racing which has led to deaths. But again, not in the levels of homefarm production and use.

Smoking tobacco is aged and "fermented" before being chopped and made ready for smoking purposes.

Growing tobacco you can't smoke it, it needs year(s) of processing to get to the state its ready. The processing technique can lead to an increase in its carcinogenic factors, the modern way is to speed up the process tremendously and although not healthy to start with, its even less so now.

I'm really disappointed in this country, its legal to grow in the UK and the USA for own use. I always did natural gardening things that bettered the commercial petro-chemical poison industry.

Tobacco leaves soaked in water and sprayed will kill insects. Then it will biodegrade rapidly and become harmless.
Tobacco leaves soaked in water and sprayed at higher concentrations will kill plants. Then it will biodegrade rapidly and become harmless.
Beer (granted it was mega cheap mega swill prices a lot better than in Oz) Mixed with Coca Cola, and Soap in a sprayer would turn a lawn green in no time and keep it bright and healthy while the neighbours down the street with their store bought chemicals looked on in jealousy.

Then again, I don't have to worry about lawns anymore since moving up from down South.. Brown is the new green here, and I'm getting used to it 


Cheers,
Brewer Pete


----------



## staggalee (18/5/09)

dr K said:


> Forgive me, this is from memory (a pre google concept)
> In the first quarter of the last century there used to be a product called " Blackleaf 40", this was a tabacco extract used as some sort of a *cide (fungicide, insecticide,herbicide, you get the picture). Workers processing this could and did die if some was spilt on them. The nicotine was absorbed through the skin, nicotine despite what smokers may say and think is a powerfull stimulant (the relaxtion or stress relief from the fag is merely proof of addiction) and an OD = Death.
> 
> 
> K



Huh....yeah but that was back then....this is now.
Nicotine has come a long way since then.
No, I won`t have it, don`t try ringing in that 18th century malarkey here, dr.k!!
{you seem to figure in all these offbeat outburts}

stagga.


----------



## manticle (18/5/09)

Rich alcohols and other flavours are often used in tobacco (eg port royal, bank) so i guess you could reverse it. I'm an ex smoker who still enjoys the occassional smoke but it's not an idea that tempts me.

Let us know how it goes though.

@everyone who automatically thinks of butts in the brew:

Fresh tobacco and smoked ends are completely different things. In fact it's a little bit like comparing stale beer left in the stubbie from the night before with your HB best.

It's all about perspective.


----------



## staggalee (18/5/09)

manticle said:


> Rich alcohols and other flavours are often used in tobacco (eg port royal, bank) so i guess you could reverse it. I'm an ex smoker who still enjoys the occassional smoke but it's not an idea that tempts me.
> 
> Let us know how it goes though.
> 
> ...



you`re "an ex smoker who still enjoys the occassional smoke?"

stagga.


----------



## manticle (18/5/09)

20 cigarettes a day as opposed to 3 cigarettes in as many months? 

Yes I think so.


----------



## muckanic (19/5/09)

Brewer Pete said:


> Now in large scale processing, high concentrations can lead to deaths. Its a cardio stimulant and will send your heart racing which has led to deaths. But again, not in the levels of homefarm production and use.



A FOAF once steeped a leaf of uncured home-grown in a plunge coffee infuser, and had to lie down for quite some time after a couple of cups. So all I can say is that the processing that goes into Bank must strip it of a lot of its potency. BTW, the brew tasted exactly like cigarettes smell, left a burning sensation in the back of the throat, and there is no way someone could glug a lot down accidentally. Obviously, nicotine in its natural state would appear to be highly water-soluble, but I also recall that it may be volatile in steam.


----------



## Phoney (19/5/09)

Even as an ex-smoker I couldnt think why anyone would want to put tobacco into their beer :icon_vomit: 

Mind you a lot of red wine's have the description of "cigar box" and that is a lovely flavour...


----------



## tcraig20 (19/5/09)

phoneyhuh said:


> Even as an ex-smoker I couldnt think why anyone would want to put tobacco into their beer :icon_vomit:



That seems to be the consensus. I wonder if the responses would have been different if I asked some ex tobacco chewers...


----------



## Bizier (19/5/09)

I am interested in this now.

I added a cigar scroll, which is similar to a cigar box. The aroma of this infuses over time via the air. Maybe you could suspend a chopped cigar in mesh over the beer in a secondary vessel for a month or so to infuse via the atmosphere. Might create mould problems.

Santa Damiana choc vanilla porter wouldn't be bad.


----------



## winkle (19/5/09)

winkle said:


> One of the Micheal Jackson books talked about a beer flavoured with tobacco, I'll have a look this evening.



Here it is FWIW - *Christoffel Taboe*.
" This is flavoured with tabacco essence during primary fermentation. The beer has a slight suggestion of cigar smoke: sweet, especially in the aroma, and then dry and leafy" - M J.
Basicly a novelty version of *Christoffel Roberus* dark lager - from Limburg, The Nertherlands.


----------



## Renegade (19/5/09)

Interesting to come across this topic, a few days ago I was eyeing off my boxes of shisha* and wondering how it could be introduced to beer. AFAIK it is only about 15% tobacco, and the rest is fruit, fruit flavours, glycerine and mostly molassas. 

(* shisha is the 'tobacco' used in Arabic water pipes, or Hookahs) 

Allah Akbar


----------



## Mantis (19/5/09)

Was a 50 a day smoker and gave it up cold turkey when the wife was pregnant with our first.

I was sick and tired of being sick and tired, and still the thought of a smoke gives me a vomity feeling.

Putting anything to do with tobacco in a beer, forget it here.


----------



## masculator002 (23/5/09)

Don't know about tobacco but I have had beer which was made using hemp, and have seen many recipes which incorporate its use. At the end of the day we all use hops in our beers which are simply perrennial hemp any way. The one I tried was acctually quite nice, had good bitterness and a very nice aroma.


----------

