# Selling your Homebrew



## Canadian Brewer (25/2/14)

Hey there guys, I have done a little searching on google and not come up with a satisfactory answer. I work at a bar in Sydney NSW and after bringing a few 6-packs of homebrew (my first actually) the boss asked if I would be interested in making a couple cases to sell in the bar. I do not have the funds or space at home to operate a kegging system at the moment, so everything in being bottle conditioned.

My question is what are the legal requirements to actually produce beer for public consumption? I am nowhere near micro brewery level as I am currently brewing in my kitchen with a 40L kettle! I have a sinking suspicion that such an environment can not be certified as "food safe" but I would love to hear from anyone who has any knowledge about this sort of thing.

Thanks for any and all info!


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## Online Brewing Supplies (25/2/14)

Very complex answer, and different in each state.
To cut it short unless you have shed loads of money and time forget it.
Nev


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## Ducatiboy stu (25/2/14)

Absolutly illegall.

You have to get a licence from NSW OLGR, then permission from the tax office. Can be done but not overly easy.

If you get caught without a licence your as good as fucked.


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## thedragon (25/2/14)

Sadly, the answer is no. Your home brew is just for you and people that you give it to for free to enjoy.


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## Yob (25/2/14)

Yep,don't get caught, mad boss for even asking, the fines he would pay boggle the mind


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## pk.sax (25/2/14)

Give the beer away for free with food the bar might be charging for.

I don't know if there are any laws against clgiving beer away in a licensed premises...


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## Canadian Brewer (25/2/14)

Sadly this is kind of what I was expecting which is unfortunate as I might have had access to our in-house graphics designer for some labels : (

Anyway, thanks for the advice. The next batch will be all for me and my buddies!


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## technobabble66 (25/2/14)

What if you sold peanuts at the bar.
$6 per peanut with a free homemade beverage with each peanut.
How many laws & licenses does that break?


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## Florian (25/2/14)

Even though you're giving away the beer for free with a peanut it would still be considered selling beer.
Pretty sure I've seen some sort of law or legislation prohibiting this (or maybe it was just someone rambling without any backup on here, so don't quote me on this), I think it was in relation of a HBS owner giving away free beer in order to close a sale or something like that.

Either way, I wouldn't go there and wouldn't put my boss into that situation either even if he is gullible enough to not care.

EDIT: added disclaimer in brackets


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## fletcher (25/2/14)

technobabble66 said:


> What if you sold peanuts at the bar.
> $6 per peanut with a free homemade beverage with each peanut.
> How many laws & licenses does that break?


haha, reminds me of a mate who used to buy tickets for big sporting events and concerts and then sell a can of coke on ebay, with the winner getting a 'free ticket to whatever event' it was thrown in. made a killing.


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## Pogierob (25/2/14)

technobabble66 said:


> What if you sold peanuts at the bar.
> $6 per peanut with a free homemade beverage with each peanut.
> How many laws & licenses does that break?


All of them


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## Nibbo (25/2/14)

Florian said:


> Even though you're giving away the beer for free with a peanut it would still be considered selling beer.
> Pretty sure I've seen some sort of law or legislation prohibiting this (or maybe it was just someone rambling without any backup on here, so don't quote me on this), I think it was in relation of a HBS owner giving away free beer in order to close a sale or something like that.
> 
> Either way, I wouldn't go there and wouldn't put my boss into that situation either even if he is gullible enough to not care.
> ...


The terms "indirect selling"
The liquor licensing mob are a fairly switched on bunch who know all the tricks.


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## technobabble66 (26/2/14)

Nibbo said:


> The terms "indirect selling"
> The liquor licensing mob are a fairly switched on bunch who know all the tricks.


Except monopolising taps in pubs/bars, apparently... :icon_offtopic:

Is there a quote or link of the regulations anyone wants to put forward? I kinda assumed it wouldn't be viable, but i'm curious.


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## wynnum1 (26/2/14)

Your beer can be produced by a legal micro brewery and then sold.


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## indica86 (26/2/14)

Get the boss to buy a Braumeister.


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## sp0rk (26/2/14)

wynnum1 said:


> Your beer can be produced by a legal micro brewery and then sold.


+1 for this
This is exactly what my local have done, teamed up with Black Duck Brewery at Port Macquarie and had their homebrew recipe brewed for them
Might not be a huge profit, but it gets your beer and name out there and if people are interested, you can build your name even further from there


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## NewtownClown (26/2/14)

indica86 said:


> Get the boss to buy a Braumeister.


 I wasn't aware a Braumeister came with a free set of relative authorisations to produce and sell alcohol


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## indica86 (26/2/14)

NewtownClown said:


> I wasn't aware a Braumeister came with a free set of relative authorisations to produce alcohol


And I clearly stated it did?


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## sluggerdog (26/2/14)

A friend recently asked about this and contacted the ATO for more details.

This is their reply to his enquiry, he decided not to proceed:

---------------

Thanks for your enquiry about selling your home brewed beer. Unfortunately it is not legal to sell home brewed beer commercially under any circumstances.

There are no fees for the licence itself, so the costs involved are in setting up the brewery to the standard required. We do not licence breweries in advance, so you will need to have all your equipment, records, security etc in place before you apply. It is therefore advisable to check state and local government regulations prior to applying to us for the licence. We usually will make a decision on your application within 28 days of receiving a complete application - however this means that all the attachments and other information have been provided in full when you apply. If the case officer needs you to provide further information, the 28 days begins only when we have received all the further information.

You may want to read other information available on our web-site here: http://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Excise/%C2 Please also feel free to call us on 1300 137 290 (alcohol option) if you have any questions while working through the information above. This number will put you through to Licensing rather than the ATO generally. If you are requested to leave a message because we are all on calls, we will get back to you as soon as possible. 

If you wish to sell commercially, even on a small scale, you will need to meet the requirements and be granted a manufacturer's licence for your brewery. The form is available here: http://www.ato.gov.au/Forms/Licence-to-manufacture-alcohol/

Please also take a look at the requirements for record keeping for breweries, which are extensive: http://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Excise/In-detail/Record-keeping/Record-keeping-and-related-requirements-for-breweries/

You should also take a look at the requirements for alcohol strength testing and alcohol volume testing:
Strength - http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?Docid=ELD/ED20091/00001
Volume - http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?Docid=ELD/ED20092/00001

You will also need to complete these background check forms:
Company (for the company holding the licence, as applicable) - http://www.ato.gov.au/Forms/Consent-to-obtain-information---company/
Individual (for all the directors and senior managers of the company holding the licence) - http://www.ato.gov.au/Forms/Consent-to-obtain-information---individual/
Criminal history check (for all staff who will have unsupervised access to the brewery and / or its records) - http://www.ato.gov.au/Forms/Consent-to-criminal-history-record-check/

You can find the excise rates applicable to beer here (scroll down to the table): http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?Docid=PAC/BL030002/1&PiT=99991231235958%C2 Please be aware they are reviewed and may change on the 1 Feb and 1 Aug each year. 
Information on excise returns is here: http://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Excise/Lodging-excise-returns-and-paying-duty/%C2 Excise returns are usually processed within 48 hours, Monday to Friday, during business hours and excluding public holidays. Usually you will start on prepayment excise returns until you are familiar with excise requirements.


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## NewtownClown (26/2/14)

indica86 said:


> And I clearly stated it did?





Canadian Brewer said:


> My question is what are the legal requirements to actually produce beer for public consumption?
> 
> 
> 
> > Get the boss to buy a Braumeister.


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/2/14)

wynnum1 said:


> Your beer can be produced by a legal micro brewery and then sold.


This is true as the excise will have been paid by the brewery. Obviously your boss will need a licence to sell retail. Probably your only option.


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/2/14)

As a side note. I contacted the ATO sometime back about starting a micro. Very helpfull and full of information and great advice.


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## Florian (26/2/14)

Deleted - what's the point?!


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## Canadian Brewer (26/2/14)

sluggerdog said:


> A friend recently asked about this and contacted the ATO for more details.
> 
> This is their reply to his enquiry, he decided not to proceed:
> 
> ...


Wow, thanks for the info. We do have an off license but seeing what is required I am certain he will think twice before suggesting something like that again! Oh well, I suppose I will have to content myself with the 40L kettle until I am in a position to start a micro brewery :drinks:


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## Greg.L (26/2/14)

It's not just the tax office and olgr, you also have to get a DA approved by your local council.


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/2/14)

If he already has a licence thenyou are halfway there, he will be able to vary his licence. When it comes to the ATO & excise, things get a bit harder. All your vesels and measuring equip ( hydrometers ) will need calibration certificates. You must submit your recipies to the ATO and be able to brew consistant ABV levels. The ATO charge on the amount of alc produced. You must keep accurate records of all fermentable purchased and used, ie, what you purchase and brew with over 12mnths must add up to the amount of alc produced thru your recipies sent to the ATO. It is possible to do it on a small 40L scale and I know of one brewery that does.


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## wide eyed and legless (26/2/14)

I think what indica86 is referring to after the comments made, is to let his boss take the responsibility to brew beer and sell it.


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## Florian (26/2/14)

Or let the boss pay for Canadian Brewer's Braumeister (tongue in cheek, obviously), that's at least how I took it. 

EDIT: Still don't get why NC added a quote from the OP into indica's quote that clearly wasn't there originally, but let's not go there again.


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## Ducatiboy stu (26/2/14)

The ways and wonders of AHB.........


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