# Home Made Yoghurt



## Wolfy (6/7/12)

While it's not really 'brew food', and I don't pretend to be an expert, but since Aldi have Yoghurt Makers on special this weekend, I thought I'd post info/pics on how I make yoghurt at home.

I've had the best results making Yoghurt at home since using my Aldi-urn and STC-1000 temperature controller:





and 'extra creamy' milk:





As with brewing, since we'll be growing cultures of micro-organisms, cleaning and sanitation is important, I usually sanitize with boiling water, so all spoons and jars and stuff are soaked in boiling water.

*Yoghurt making steps*:
*1)* Clean/sanatise container, I use a large size (4 to 500ml) glass jar




*2)* Mostly fill jar with milk, and add 2-3 spoons of powdered milk




*3)* Heat milk to 85C and hold for 20mins




*4)* Reduce temperature to about 40C (empty hot water from urn and fill with cold water).
*5)* Add yoghurt culture - 2 spoons yoghurt - to a small amount of the milk and stir, before adding to the jar.
Yoghurt cultures can be purchased online, but using a couple of spoons of supermarket-purchased commercial yoghurt works fine, pick a brand you like eating.




*6)* Hold temperature at about 44C for about 4 hours (anything between about 40 and 50C is fine, different cultures like different temperatures).
The cultures will have grown and the yoghurt set after 4 hours, but if you like it a bit more tart and acidic leave it a bit longer or even overnight.
*7)* Refrigerate yoghurt culture.




*8)* Add fruit, muesli or whatever stuff you like to eat with your yoghurt (like strawberry sauce).





By straining the yoghurt (Swiss Volle works well for this) you can make it thicker and more like cottage or cream cheese and use it in all ways you'd use cottage/cream cheese or even sour cream, I've even made 'healthy' cheese cakes with it.

Temperature control is not essential, steps 1-3 can be done in a saucepan on any normal stove, and 4-6 completed adequately by simply insulating the yoghurt/container.
I didn't want to make it sound complicated or hard, but additional reading and reference can be found here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/15/dining/15curi.html?_r=2
http://www.abc.net.au/local/recipes/2011/01/17/3114435.htm
http://extension.missouri.edu/publications...b.aspx?P=GH1183
http://www.ochef.com/r171.htm


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## capretta (6/7/12)

ha, cool thanks for the pics too.. quick question, it appears you pasteurise your milk again at the start? have you had many off batches to require this step?


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## Wolfy (6/7/12)

capretta said:


> ha, cool thanks for the pics too.. quick question, it appears you pasteurise your milk again at the start? have you had many off batches to require this step?


No off-batches.
But this step is suggested in each of the recipes/links above, the first explains: "_The heat alters the milks whey proteins and helps create a finer, denser consistency_."


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## capretta (6/7/12)

ok, thanks for the reply. B)


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## benno1973 (7/7/12)

Nice looking money shot there at the end Wolfy!

We make our own yoghurt, slightly less precise process, but still great results.

Nothing is sanitised, or to be honest, even washed after pulling it out of the cupboard. It probably makes the shelf life a little shorter, but between us and the kids we go through 2L of yoghurt in a week, so it's no loss. We've left it for 2 weeks and it still tastes fine. After 3 weeks it's smelling a little yeasty.

We don't hold at 85C - I'll need to try that to see if it makes a difference. Instead we bring it up to just below boiling and then let it cool on the stove top.

While we have yoghurt thermos containers to keep the little yoghurt critters happy, I remember my mum when I was a kid just used to wrap the jar in a towel and stick it in the linen cupboard to keep warm. 3-8 hours and it's done.

We buy yoghurt cultures from cheeselinks. Works out very price competitive and lasts for years, especially when you use a couple of spoons from your previous batch to restart the next batch. Each batch made from the culture can re-seed around 5-6 new generations.


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## Wolfy (7/7/12)

Kaiser Soze said:


> We don't hold at 85C - I'll need to try that to see if it makes a difference. Instead we bring it up to just below boiling and then let it cool on the stove top.


I think that pretty-much achieves the same purpose, by the time you heat the milk to 'just below boiling' and then let it cool, it's spent enough time in that temperature range.

Previously I'd make it without precise temperature control (and different milk) - exactly how you make it - but never found the results to be quite how I wanted them, so that's why I've been doing it this way.


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## Wolfy (24/7/12)

Strained yoghurt:




(Yoghurt cheese, labneh, or Greek yoghurt, depending on where you are from or marketing)

Add salted squeezed cucumber, lemon juice, garlic, some olive oil:




To make tzatziki (or call it one of many things depending on region)

Add herb and lemon spiced lamb, oven roasted potatoes, some salad and pita-bred:




... and call it dinner.


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## Ducatiboy stu (24/7/12)

Kaiser Soze said:


> Nice looking money shot there at the end Wolfy!
> 
> We make our own yoghurt, slightly less precise process, but still great results.
> 
> ...



Spot the similarities with brewing yeast and yogurt culture


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## Wolfy (9/9/12)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Spot the similarities with brewing yeast and yogurt culture


... and making cheese.


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## Eggs (13/9/12)

ive had a few goes in the past, but not with a temperature controller. the results are always very thin, much like a drinking yogurt. Ive never found what went wrong.


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## glenwal (13/9/12)

Eggs said:


> ive had a few goes in the past, but not with a temperature controller. the results are always very thin, much like a drinking yogurt. Ive never found what went wrong.



This has been my experience as well. Next go i am going to try using a better brand milk (i'm using the $1/L cheap stuff atm) - i'm wondering if the crap they dilute it with is thinning out the end result. 

If that doesn't work (or if it does but i still want it thicker) , i'm going to try adding powered milk as per wolfy's post above. I'm assuming that will add in additional "solids" that will give a thicker end result.


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## pk.sax (13/9/12)

Bring to a boil, let the cream rise out and turn the heat off before it departs the pot. Cool it down and seed with culture from last batch.

That's how we used to make it. Even get yummy fresh cream from it.


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## benno1973 (13/9/12)

We use cheapo milk, skim milk, expensive milk, whatever - I don't find that the brand/type of milk plays a huge role in how it turns out. The brand of yoghurt used as a starter does however. We used to eat this amazing greek yoghurt - was thick and delicious - and absolutely crap as a starter. Cheapo Brownes plain yoghurt was always a winner however. If the yoghurt's turning out runny, I'd suggest the following things...

1. Confirm that you're heating it to 85/90C at the start, as Wolfy mentioned this is an important step.
2. Add milk powder. I've never tried without, but my mum always used to do it, and most recipes I've seen do it.
3. Try a few different brands of yoghurt as starters. Make sure it's fresh. Some work, some don't.
4. Failing point 3, order some yoghurt culture from cheeselinks or somewhere.
5. Calibrate your thermometers to make sure you're holding temps at 40-45C.
6. Insulate the container and leave it for 8 hours once you've added the warm milk. 

Failing that, I'm not sure what could be happening.


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## Wolfy (13/9/12)

@*Eggs*, I found the same with my past experiments, but either the milk, addition of powdered milk or the tight temperature control does the trick.

*Glen W* I presume the same about the stuff in the cheap milk.
I've been added 3 spoons of powdered milk per 500ml of milk and the texture of the resulting yoghurt is exactly the same as the store-brought stuff. With cheaper milk or with less milk powder the yoghurt is a bit 'grainy' (as per photo in #7 of the OP) and there is more noticeable separation of the whey.


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## Wolfy (14/9/12)

It's a bit hard to show 'texture' in a photo, but here is the yoghurt I made yesterday:




Smooth, creamy, solid, no excess whey ... taste and texture as good or better than the stuff you buy in the shop (even the kids are surprised how good it is).
Culture is 1 spoon of Gippsland Organic (essentially the same as Jalna) and 1 spoon of Ski Activ (has proto-biotic-stuff but not sure how that goes recultured at home), such cultures can be frozen in an ice-cube tray and used later (defrost slowly in a small amount of milk).


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## WarmBeer (14/9/12)

What do you have your STC probe sitting in in picture #3?

Is it immersed in liquid, or just sitting dry in the additional jar?


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## drsmurto (17/9/12)

Cheers for the simple pictorial Wolfy.

Stumbled on this thread out of boredom and was surprised to see how simple the process was.

More surprised to come to the realisation that i had everything needed to make yoghurt. My urn is an old fowlers preserving urn so the dial is in degrees (fahnrenheit) rather than arbitrary numbers so controlling temperature is very simple (thanks to the unit converter app).

Tweedvale milk, full cream, non-homogenised/permeate free (and has always been that way). It reminds me of the milk we used to get delivered when i was a tad younger, 5L icecream container on the front porch with coins inside. Milky would jog down the driveway, take the container back to his ute and ladle fresh, pure unpasteurised, unhomegenised milk into the container and carry it back. We went through 5L a day as my brother and I would drink/skoll it 1L at a time. 

I have powdered milk which is used for the fruit loaf i make. Fridge always contains yoghurt.

Held at 43C for 5 hours.

Result is very nice, a good level of sourness and bite and thick enough to spoon out of the container. Had some on my cereal this morning and have some mixed with some of my boysenberries from last season for lunch.


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## Wolfy (17/9/12)

WarmBeer said:


> What do you have your STC probe sitting in in picture #3?
> 
> Is it immersed in liquid, or just sitting dry in the additional jar?


Its in another jar immersed in water, now I just shove it in the water next to the yoghurt jar, its easier and likely to be accurate enough.


DrSmurto said:


> Stumbled on this thread out of boredom and was surprised to see how simple the process was.
> ...
> Held at 43C for 5 hours.
> ...
> Result is very nice, a good level of sourness and bite and thick enough to spoon out of the container.


Just takes a bit of time for it to culture, but other than that it's very easy to do.

Using different cultures and adjusting the culture temperature (some sources suggest to use a temperature up to 50C) and time (4-12 hours) will should you control the sourness/bite/flavour (and maybe texture) to get it exactly how you like it.


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## wobbly (17/9/12)

Another good use for a Braumeister system (and/or the various clones) being able to control/program temperature and time very easily

Cheers

Wobbly


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## brettprevans (10/3/13)

The missus made some yogurt last night using a similar method (incl milk powder). It was very tart (probably cause it was left out over night at temp), not grainy but a bit lumpy and tastes slightly like cheese.

Any thoughts on the cheese flavour?


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## Florian (10/3/13)

I make great yoghurt much easier than this.

Use long life milk, this has already been heated to the appropriate temp, so safe yourself the first heating step. It's cheap and easy.

Heat to 40 to 45 degrees. I actually put the closed milk pack in the microwave for a few minutes, shake and repeat. You can also just dump the tetra pack into a bucket of hot water, or just leave in your yoghurt maker for a while. then Innoculate with your culture or a spoon full of your favourite yoghurt.

Add a quarter cup or more of milk powder per liter, add 3 drops calcium chloride solution. The calcium chloride helps thickening the yoghurt. Buy it ready made anywhere that sells cheese making supplies like many HBS, or mix your own from your brewing salts, not sure about exact ratio though.



Keep at 40 To 45 degrees (a yoghurt maker is only 17 bucks at Aldi nowadays, no need to mess around with your urn) for up to 12 hours to get it really thick, then let it set in the fridge For a few hours.


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## felten (11/3/13)

We use an Easyio yoghurt maker, very easy to use. They sell just-add-water sachets, dunno about their various flavoured varieties, but we go through a lot of Greek style yoghurt sachets.

You can use milk and inoculate it yourself, but I found the yields to be a lot lower. Though I never tried adding milk powder, which looks like it helps a lot in that regard.


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## stux (11/3/13)

We knock up a few L if the easy yo yogurt all the time. 

Been meaning to try the all-grain version of yogurt, but the easy yo is so easy


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## brettprevans (11/3/13)

We tried the easy yo and its ultra sweet, heaps of sugar. The missus used the easy yo container in the lsst AG yogurt attempt outlibed in the prev page.


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## stux (11/3/13)

citymorgue2 said:


> We tried the easy yo and its ultra sweet, heaps of sugar. The missus used the easy yo container in the lsst AG yogurt attempt outlibed in the prev page.


We use the unsweetened packs. Then add a combination of stevia/sugar to taste


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## brettprevans (11/3/13)

Stux said:


> We use the unsweetened packs. Then add a combination of stevia/sugar to taste


dont think the missus ever saw unsweetened packs. Cool. Thanks for the tip. But still its cheaper to make ur own from scratch so we will persist.


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## benno1973 (11/3/13)

CM2 - what did you use for starter culture? Did you sanitise equipment beforehand? (I don't personally, just wondering if you did). And was the milk fresh?


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## felten (11/3/13)

If you want unsweetened go for the greek style packets, I'm not a fan of sweetened yoghurt either.


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## brettprevans (11/3/13)

Kaiser Soze said:


> CM2 - what did you use for starter culture? Did you sanitise equipment beforehand? (I don't personally, just wondering if you did). And was the milk fresh?


missus made it. So nfi about sanitation. Should have been ok.
Starter culture was Chris' s brand greek yogurt
Milk. Pura full fat it wasnnt out of date. Does that count as fresh lol. Yeah I know youd get better results from raw milk


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## benno1973 (11/3/13)

Nah, that's fine. I use supermarket milk, but generally not close to code, although I'm not sure that it matters. Just assuming that there's some other bacteria in there causing the cheesy smell, so considering the minimal number of ingredients, it can only be the milk, milk powder (doubtful), culture or anything that comes into contact with that.

Try sitting it for a shorter time (4-6 hours or so) to see if that makes a difference. Also try switching yoghurt cultures. I've tried Chris's in the past and while it's delicious yoghurt, I vaguely remember that it didn't work well for my homemade yoghurt, it was a bit hit and miss. Ironically, Brownes traditional is a good source of culture (read: reliable).

Also try Florian's long life milk process above - should rule out issues with the milk at least.


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## brettprevans (11/3/13)

Kaiser Soze said:


> Nah, that's fine. I use supermarket milk, but generally not close to code, although I'm not sure that it matters. Just assuming that there's some other bacteria in there causing the cheesy smell, so considering the minimal number of ingredients, it can only be the milk, milk powder (doubtful), culture or anything that comes into contact with that.
> 
> Try sitting it for a shorter time (4-6 hours or so) to see if that makes a difference. Also try switching yoghurt cultures. I've tried Chris's in the past and while it's delicious yoghurt, I vaguely remember that it didn't work well for my homemade yoghurt, it was a bit hit and miss. Ironically, Brownes traditional is a good source of culture (read: reliable).
> 
> Also try Florian's long life milk process above - should rule out issues with the milk at least.


almost exactly what I said to my missus. We need to eliminate variables to work out what went wrong. A few more trials and we should have answers. Will also switch yogurt and try farmers union.


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## komodo (26/3/13)

Hmmm gotta give this a go. Missus does the easy yo thing but this looks like a bit more fun.


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## Bribie G (22/11/13)

Since when was yogurt worth six frigging dollars a litre? Apart from Aldi who do decent yogurts for less than $5, Colesworths seem to have some yogurt price fixing scam that puts everything at $6.
So I decided to resist, and swung the mighty Crown into action. It was also an opportunity to test out how good the temperature dial is.

Recipe for five kilo tubs:

4L of Manning Valley unhomogenised milk
300ml Bornhoffen original as a starter
600ml of very strong reconstituted milk from full cream milk powder - two and a half cups.

Heated milks to 90 degrees in stockpot then allowed to cool off to 40
Added culture and warmed all back to 45

Filled five saved Aldi containers and placed in prepared 45 degree water bath, sitting on a trivet.,

I found that on my particular urn, the 40 setting gives 46 so I adjusted it back a tad
Five hours. No need to lag as the urn cuts in and out as required.

Bloody nice, I'll try another yogurt for a starter next time to see how it goes. I used the Bornhoffen as its strain is S.Thermophilae, but I now find out that nearly all Aussie commercial yogurts use thermophilic strains. Total cost of first batch around $11 for five kilos.


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## Ducatiboy stu (22/11/13)

Come on Bribie....dobt be sucked into the pricefixing conspiracy....it doesnt exist according to them


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## Not For Horses (22/11/13)

Good stuff gentleman.
I too dabbled in yoghurt making for a little while.
'Twas the summer of '12...
I had a wild starter that was captured from a long forgotten half-finished container of UHT milk.
My wife was going to throw it out but I had a smell and it was amazing. Put some of the liquid into fresh milk and sat it on the bench overnight (probably about 20 degrees) and the next day it was yoghurt. 
Magic.


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## Bribie G (22/11/13)

If only beer brewing was as easy as yogurt making


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## brettprevans (22/11/13)

Drop the yogurt into the mash when step mashing at 45C whilst brewing. Then use it as a soude vous


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## Bribie G (22/11/13)

Then keep it in the mashtun all the way through at it will end up pateurised.


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## MartinOC (22/11/13)

:icon_offtopic:


citymorgue2 said:


> Drop the yogurt into the mash when step mashing at 45C whilst brewing. Then use it as a soude vous


 :lol: I had to laugh.. "Soude Vous" means "Soda you" in French.

I think you mean "Sous Vide" ("Under Vacuum") - cooking vac-packed stuff in a water bath (but that's another thread entirely!).

I've been making my yoghurt in a vacuum flask overnight for years & it's great. However, I've just found yet another use for my new STC-1000 toys (SWMBO will approve, methinks!).


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## Aces High (23/11/13)

Ive been using my el-cheapo rice maker to make yoghurt. If you put it on the "keep warm" setting, half fill it with water and take the lid off it stays at 43 degrees all day long. It makes the perfect water bath for making yoghurt.


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## Ducatiboy stu (23/11/13)

What is the reason for taking the milk up to 90*c then letting it cool to 40....


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## Bribie G (23/11/13)

Pasteurised milk still contains microorganisms which is why milk goes off after a week or so. However if you boil it, the proteins start coagulating already which isn't going to give the smoothest yogurt.


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## lael (24/11/13)

Wolfy, this is awesome!

Made some of this last night using some jalna greek and taste me(? something like that) organic yoghurt - still looking for activia and gippsland organic - seem to be off the shelf where I've looked. Where did you get yours? It turned out thick, creamy, slightly tart and really good!

Just confirming - you said you can freeze the seed yoghurt in ice cube trays and use them once they have defrosted? sounds like a good backup plan to have some culture ready to go.

I did the milk in a saucepan, to 88 (lowest setting on one of the burners kept it constant) then temp controlled in the rice cooker with a timer thingo. Put it in the fridge early this morning and had it for breakfast. Any thoughts on where in the temp range (40-45) is best?


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## Wolfy (28/11/13)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> What is the reason for taking the milk up to 90*c then letting it cool to 40....


As per Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogurt
"In Western culture, the milk is first heated to about 80 °C (176 °F) to kill any undesirable bacteria and to denature the milk proteins so that they set together rather than form curds"


lael said:


> Wolfy, this is awesome!
> 
> Made some of this last night using some jalna greek and taste me(? something like that) organic yoghurt - still looking for activia and gippsland organic - seem to be off the shelf where I've looked. Where did you get yours? It turned out thick, creamy, slightly tart and really good!
> 
> ...


IMHO don't get too stressed about which culture(s) you use, just pick them from the yoghurt that you like eating best - then in theory yours will turn out much the same.

Yes (in theory) you can freeze the seed yoghurt, I've done so and it turns out OK, but after a few months of re-using the same culture, I just buy a couple more tubs of commercial stuff and start again.

With my setup, I set the controller to 44degC, but in practice it ranges from about 43.5 up to 45 - that's the range where I like how it tastes, but try a few different temps and see where you like it best.


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## TimT (7/12/13)

For a yoghurt culture you guys could consider getting what are called 'heirloom cultures' or 'long-life cultures'. Most culture you get from cheesemaking stores or from the shops will only regenerate a few times before it becomes too weak - unsurprising because neither cheesemaking stores or the shops have an interest in letting you make your own yoghurt without occasionally going back to buy stuff from them.

A good yoghurt culture should be able to work for centuries - you should be able to reculture it forever, essentially.

I'm unsure why store bought cultures don't possess this ability but think it's something to do with the way these cultures were produced - a single strain of bacteria was isolated and multiplied. Heirloom cultures, by contrast, have many types of bacteria in them, and somehow they contrive to work together to make the environment congenial for one another. (I've also read one suggestion that single-strain cultures will be much more susceptible to viral infections, which makes sense.)

Anyway, we have a longlife villii culture at home that we've had going for a couple of months now. They're hard to come by in Australia, I'll dig around and try and find the website for the distributor - but they're originally sourced from here. Alternatively, you could try Cultures ALIVE, although when I first started searching for heirloom yoghurt culture half a year ago I didn't have any success contacting them. Anyway, their website seems to be working again so you may be able to get culture from them.

Villii loves cream (and I've found it makes lovely cream cheese and mascarpone - cheesemaking is really what I keep it for), so bear that in mind if you get that product.


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## TimT (7/12/13)

Cheese-and-yoghurt makers usually distinguish between thermophilic (heat loving) and mesophilic (room-temp loving) cultures. A lot of the yoghurt mentioned here is heat loving/thermophillic but our vili is room-temp loving - basically you just keep it on the top shelf in a warm room like the kitchen. No fuss.

BTW I just noticed people mentioning using UHT milk. Eek! Don't do that! Almost every cheese book or blog I read cautions against this. The milk proteins are denatured, the culture doesn't like it as much, and it tastes worse than regular milk: more bland, less sweet, no texture.

Of course every milk is different and will give different results to the yoghurt or cheese. UHT won't culture very well; raw milk is very rich, and excellent for cheeses like mozzarella (which require an active culture when you make the mozzarella balls), or for adding flavour and character to cheeses like camembert. Unhomogenised milk can give the cheese a not-unpleasant mottled character because of the bits of cream floating about. Yoghurt sometimes has different results on reculturing, too, partly because of the milk - our last few batches haven't clabbered very thickly because the milk hasn't been so creamy. And the taste seems different each time. A brewing and cheesemaking friend in Warburton has an arrangement where he gets milk from a Jersey cow belonging to a friend and swears the milk is virtually half cream, (an unimaginably delightful prospect to folks such as I who can only dabble with store-bought milks).


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## Ducatiboy stu (7/12/13)

We have local milk. Tastes like proper milk.

http://bigrivermilk.com.au/


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## Bribie G (10/12/13)

I'm still eating the brew, One more litre tub to go.. It's as good as the day I made it, if anything it's become a little more firm but still mild and creamy. I'll be down at Tuncurry tomorrow and grab some more unhomogenised milk and test out my rice cooker with a somewhat smaller batch this time.


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## lael (10/12/13)

22nd Nov till 10th Dec - that's pretty impressive. Happy with bernhoffen as your starter?


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## Bribie G (10/12/13)

Yes, not so tart as I would have expected for B'hoffen. However a rellie has left half a kilo of Vaalia in the fridge, might give that a go.


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## altpferd (11/12/13)

I have Easiyo yoghurt makers. We started with Easiyo natural yoghurt sachet and just used a couple spoonfuls from each batch to make up the next batch. I boost the cheap milk with a spoonful or two of powdered milk. Makes excellent yoghurt. We add jams and stuff to it for sweetness, or just use plain on our salads and veggie wraps. The Easiyo thermos seems to work well enough for us in terms of regulating temperature. I generally just leave it overnight unless it's really hot, then I just leave for 4 - 6 hours.


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## altpferd (11/12/13)

Also, interesting information .. according to my dietician, Bornhoffen is the most natural yoghurt available in Coles and Woolworths in Australia. I can't speak for boutique brands sold in smaller places, though.


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## niftinev (11/12/13)

I use uht long life milk ( keep a couple in the cupboard) and just add a couple of spoonfulls of powdered milk which helps it thicken and adds creaminess and just add a couple of spoons of whatever brand of yogurt you like as the starter


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## NewtownClown (11/12/13)

altpferd said:


> Also, interesting information .. according to my dietician, Bornhoffen is the most natural yoghurt available in Coles and Woolworths in Australia. I can't speak for boutique brands sold in smaller places, though.


 Not anymore.. a couple of years ago they removed the acidophilus and bifidus cultures - it use to say "Acidophilus" on the front of the tub.
I stopped purchasing the product for the "bite" was missing and the "tang" was very mellow.


I will check colesworth today too see if they have gone back to their old recipe and culture....


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## Bribie G (11/12/13)

No, I noticed that as well. They use S. Thermophilae.
The S stands for Streptococcus, but don't worry it won't make your legs fall off.

Yet.

Probably accounts for the more mellow taste nowadays - used to be a bit of an endurance test in the old days. I'll check the Vaalia tub:

Right, the Vaalia has Acidophilus and as the guy on Kath and Kim used to claim, Bifidophilus :blink:


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## NewtownClown (11/12/13)

I not know of this Kath and Kim.

I am now considering those Yakult-type probiotic drinks? Is that viable? 

I've alway wondered how many people would give up yogurt if the knew many of the cultures were strains grown from human and animal poop!


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## lael (11/12/13)

I tried both. I got a thicker set yoghurt with the 20mins at 85. I also tried using uht and adding cream ( not cooked but think it is pasteurised. ) at around 400ml to 2ltrs. I didn't add milk powder though, which I think absorbs liquid and helps to get a thicker set yoghurt. I was interested as a shortcut to avoid the 20mins. 

My favourite so far has been the Paul's milk with the 20mins. Five am organic and jalna Greek as starters.


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## Bribie G (11/12/13)

NewtownClown said:


> I not know of this Kath and Kim.
> 
> I am now considering those Yakult-type probiotic drinks? Is that viable?
> 
> I've alway wondered how many people would give up yogurt if the knew many of the cultures were strains grown from human and animal poop!


Makes fecal transplant increasingly attractive, cut out the middle man.

Kath and Kim were a popular 2000s show on ABC I seem to remember, Queens of the Cashed up Bogans. The boyfriend was a butcher "purveyor of fine meats" and he was always coming out with the wrong term while trying to appear up to date with all things hipster, such as "Bifidophilus". Couldn't stand the show myself.





I'll check up on the fermentation temp for acidophilus and biffo. I'd guess Bornhoffen have gone to a thermophilic yogurt as they can crank it out quicker.


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## Bribie G (11/12/13)

Wikpedia says

optimum growth temperature of around 37 °C (99 °F).[1]_L. acidophilus_ occurs naturally in the human and animal gastrointestinal tract and mouth.[2] Some strains of _L. acidophilus_ may be considered to have probiotic characteristics.[3] These strains are commercially used in many dairy products, sometimes together with _Streptococcus thermophilus_ and _Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. bulgaricus_ in the production of acidophilus-type yogurt.

I might try a mix of bornhoffen and Vaalia at 41 degrees and get two bob both ways.


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## sp0rk (11/12/13)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> We have local milk. Tastes like proper milk.
> 
> http://bigrivermilk.com.au/


Any shops near the highway selling it?
I might grab some on my way home from visiting the Family in Ballina over christmas and have a dig at doing some yoghurt
I've thought about using my HLT for the warm water bath, will have to hurry up and order the STC1000 for it


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## TimT (14/12/13)

Finally found that Australian distributor of heirloom/long-life yoghurt cultures: The Natural Therapy Shop.

http://www.naturaltherapyshop.com.au/viili-yogurt-starter/


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## Bribie G (14/12/13)

Thanks for that link, I'll order some.

As it happens I'm making Yogurt again today as I'm onto my last tub of the old brew, I'll try the "room temperature" system next time.


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## Glot (14/12/13)

Is there anything that needs to be done different to make Soy yogurt?


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## NewtownClown (14/12/13)

use soy milk? and add some lactose or sugar (soy doesn't have either) I imagine that is what the bacterium feed on?


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## TimT (14/12/13)

Soy yoghurt should be fine but bear in mind it won't reculture after a generation or two - the yoghurt bacteria prefer proper milk.


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## Ducatiboy stu (14/12/13)

sp0rk said:


> Any shops near the highway selling it?
> I might grab some on my way home from visiting the Family in Ballina over christmas and have a dig at doing some yoghurt
> I've thought about using my HLT for the warm water bath, will have to hurry up and order the STC1000 for it


Tyndale roadhouse should have it


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## Airgead (14/12/13)

NewtownClown said:


> use soy milk? and add some lactose or sugar (soy doesn't have either) I imagine that is what the bacterium feed on?


One of the reasons people use soy is because they are lactose intolerant. In that case, adding lactose is probably a Very Bad Idea.

The other reason is that they are vegan in which case adding animal derived lacose is also not a good thing.

Cheers
Dave


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## NewtownClown (14/12/13)

That make sense.... So sugar to feed the bacteria?


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## Airgead (14/12/13)

Not sure you would need it. I suspect the soy milk would have enough natural sugars to feed the bacteria. Having said that, I have never tried it so take what I say with several shovel fulls of salt.

Cheers
Dave


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## Bribie G (14/12/13)

I lived in Turkey for a year and they are mostly lactose intolerant. However they eat heaps of dairy in the form of yogurt (a Turkish word of course) and cheeses. The reason they ferment the milk is to remove the lactose. So adding lactose to a soy ferment would be good for the bacteria and, when the lactose has been fermented out, good for the lactose intolerant eater.


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## TimT (14/12/13)

Hmmm. I'm unfamiliar with the exact process but certainly lacto-bacilli fermentation won't remove all the lactose - that's why both the curds and the whey are sweet after clabbering/curdling and why you can use the whey as a sweetener in your beer. The advice here -

http://www.culturesforhealth.com/reducing-lactose-content-kefir

is that lactose is exactly what the bacteria consume, converting it to lactic acid.That said: if you want to make soy yoghurt and use lactose, well then that makes it useless for people who are lactose intolerant and in most cases it will rule out vegans too who don't want to eat any animal products.

One possible solution would be to keep two cultures, a main dairy yoghurt culture which you use as a mother for a soy yoghurt culture. The soy yoghurt culture will probably die out after a generation or two (that seems to be the advice on all cheesemaking websites and pages), but you can keep the dairy yoghurt mother around for reculturing.


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## punkin (15/12/13)

Bribie G said:


> I lived in Turkey for a year and they are mostly lactose intolerant. However they eat heaps of dairy in the form of yogurt (a Turkish word of course) and cheeses. The reason they ferment the milk is to remove the lactose. So adding lactose to a soy ferment would be good for the bacteria and, when the lactose has been fermented out, good for the lactose intolerant eater.



I have a grandaughter who has life threatening lactose allergies and that's just rubbish Bribie. She has only recently (she's 18) gotten clearance to eat some cooked dairy in the form of cakes and cheeses. In the past she could only have soy products, not a chance of natural yoghurts, and just touching someone else who had touched cheese would bring on a reaction.


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## benno1973 (15/12/13)

punkin said:


> I have a grandaughter who has life threatening lactose allergies and that's just rubbish Bribie. She has only recently (she's 18) gotten clearance to eat some cooked dairy in the form of cakes and cheeses. In the past she could only have soy products, not a chance of natural yoghurts, and just touching someone else who had touched cheese would bring on a reaction.


We cook on a regular basis (weekly) for a boy allergic to milk products (anaphylaxis) which would make me surprised if your granddaughter is allergic to lactose in that way. Generally it is the milk protein (casein) that causes the reaction. From wikipedia (the source of all things true!) :



> A person with milk allergy can be reactive to one of dozens of the proteins within milk. The most common one is alpha S1-casein.


Lactose intolerance is a sensitivity to the lactose in milk, so reducing the amount of lactose should make it better for lactose intolerant people.


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## Ducatiboy stu (15/12/13)

This site should clear a few things up.

http://kidshealth.org/PageManager.jsp?article_set=30372&lic=175&cat_id=20132&m=y

If you where allergic to lactose, you would possibly be allergic to other dissaccharides and sugars..

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disaccharide


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## punkin (15/12/13)

Kaiser Soze said:


> We cook on a regular basis (weekly) for a boy allergic to milk products (anaphylaxis) which would make me surprised if your granddaughter is allergic to lactose in that way. Generally it is the milk protein (casein) that causes the reaction. From wikipedia (the source of all things true!) :
> 
> 
> Lactose intolerance is a sensitivity to the lactose in milk, so reducing the amount of lactose should make it better for lactose intolerant people.



Thanks KS, i apologise Bribie as i am not up enough on the whole deal. I know it's been described within the family as allergic to milk (and eggs) and assumed the lactose was the problem.


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## Bribie G (15/12/13)

When I lived in Southern Turkey in a town about the size of Port Macquarie the only place you could buy milk was a government "depot". They would literally boil up a big batch of milk every day and you had to bring your own bottle to refill. It was mostly for kids with medical problems who could tolerate milk, and the odd Euro tourist who couldn't live without their latte  Having been boiled it would have tasted pretty naff.
Nowadays I expect milk is more readily available in the supermarkets as tourism is huge nowadays and there are a lot of migrant workers.

Off topic again but when I was last in the UK I hunted in vain for ready made custard in the supermarkets (e.g. Pauls type custard 2L or 1L cartons). Never heard of it and general opinion was that it's a weird idea. :blink:


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## benno1973 (15/12/13)

punkin said:


> Thanks KS, i apologise Bribie as i am not up enough on the whole deal. I know it's been described within the family as allergic to milk (and eggs) and assumed the lactose was the problem.


I thought the same too initially punkin. And it makes cooking a real bitch. We have to remove everything milk based when we cook for fear of cross contamination, and we read every label to ensure there's no milk solids/products involved. Even most commercial stock has some milk in it. It's surprising what contains milk.


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## Bribie G (15/12/13)

Just tried my new batch of 5 kilos. I did it on a mixture of Vaalia and Bornhoffen and it's turned out not as rich tasting as the first lot, with more of a loose jelly consistency. Would recommend the Bornhoffen at 43 degrees.
Might have screwed up the Vaalia bugs as they are Acidophilus and not sure if 43 was suitable.

Edit: quite edible, I mostly use my yogurt as "ayran" the National drink of Turkey, to perk me up of a morning with a protein blast, and in Indian cooking, so consistency isn't all that important.

Never mind, next batch will be that room temperature stuff.


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## Ducatiboy stu (15/12/13)

It makes it hard when sending your kids to daycare/school as they prohibit things with nuts,egg,whey etc in lunchboxes. Basically only leaves fresh fruit....and water...


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## punkin (15/12/13)

Kaiser Soze said:


> I thought the same too initially punkin. And it makes cooking a real bitch. We have to remove everything milk based when we cook for fear of cross contamination, and we read every label to ensure there's no milk solids/products involved. Even most commercial stock has some milk in it. It's surprising what contains milk.



Yep having to use two knives to make the toast and make sure you have a seperate jar of vegemite labelled etc. It's easy to remember the milk is So Good, but much harder to remember not to give them a kiss the same day after you've eaten chocolate or whether you've ever dipped a butter knife in the honey.

Then they go and change ingredients or processes on things at the supermarket you thought were safe, so reading the labels becomes an instinctive habit.


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## TimT (15/12/13)

No expert me but my guess is there'd be varying levels of lactose intolerance?

LI is actually the norm in our species - the gene mutation that allowed us to drink milk without fear of becoming sick happened quite recently and most of the world's population don't have it I think.

You can make vegan cheeses at home too. Found a surprisingly easy recipe in Martha Washinton's cookbook (17th century) using almond milk and lemons/oranges (or probably anything acidic). METHOD - Heat almond milk until it seeths (that dramatic rising up out of the pot stage that milks do just before boiling), remove from heat instantly and stir in the juice of several lemons and set aside for a few minutes. The curds should separate naturally, if not add more juice. Drain through a cheesecloth over a bowl, tie up and leave to drip and cool for a few hours. (Oh, you'll have to dissolve sugar in the almond milk before you boil it, it'll be quite sour otherwise).

Since store-bought almond milk isn't entirely trustworthy either, you can make that at home too. Soak almonds in water for a day. Then drain off that water, and put almonds in a blender with more water - the quantity you want is 1: 4, 1 = the almonds and 4 = the water. 1 cup almonds, 4 cups water is a good size for a blender. Pulse until it looks like milk, which is not that long at all. (If you want a creamier texture, increase the amount of almonds compared to the amount of water).

No, no, don't thank me, I'm here to obsessively talk on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and ON about my pet subjects until someone clobbers me over the back of the head and tells me to shut up.


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## Airgead (15/12/13)

My Missus was lactose intolerant for about 5 years after a really nasty bout of gastro ( and some medical misdiagnosis) so I had to make lactosse free yogurt and cheese. Fortunately she eventually recovered and is back on milk.

The trick was to use the lact-ese enzyme drops that you can buy. They turn lactose to galactose which is digestable. The problem is that the yogurt bugs want lactose not galactose so you can't pre-convert the milk. Also, once the milk is set into yogurt, the enzyme doesn't work very well due to the acidity so you can't add it afterwards. What you need to do is add your yougurt starter then about half an hour later, add the enzyme. Its then a race between the enzyme and the bugs. I found that the bugs got enough lactose to acidify things and get a good set while the enzyme was able to mop up the rest of the lactose before things got too acidic.

Wouldn't recommend that method for the anaphalactic but for milder cases, it worked really well.

Also worked well for cheese. Add the cheese starter then add the enzyme when you add the rennett. Bingo. Lactose free cheese.

Cheers
Dave


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## Glot (16/12/13)

There are other reasons for not wanting to use dairy other than lactose issues. Cruelty to animals is one at the top of my list.


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## djar007 (16/12/13)

Surely it isnt cruel to milk a cow these days is it Glot? Or a cat for that matter. They usually purr within three strokes of the nipple.

edit: can't spell cat


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## Glot (16/12/13)

Cat?
I do not condemn you for your ignorance of the dairy industry. The majority of people are also ignorant of the process. That is just modern society.
I was merely stating why I was asking about soy yogurt.


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## TimT (16/12/13)

The bad: calves of dairy cows often get killed straight after birth. Perversely, the colostrum (just-after-birth milk produced by the cow, very rich) is sold to athletes. The dairy industry isn't perfect, that's for sure.

That said, I've heard tell of brewers who have purposefully slaughtered goats in order to use the skin for a recreated ancient brew, to get, as it were, the full experience.


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## Not For Horses (16/12/13)

Have you worked in the dairy industry Glot? 
I did for 6 years. Dairy farmers get paid, on average, sfa.
Maybe an exaggeration.
The point is the dairy cow is remarkably well looked after in most cases. We looked after them, they looked after us.
I also know personally one of the animal cruelty investigators here in tas. And while he has told me some fairly horrible stories, they are in the minority. A very small minority.
Now I am in NO WAY saying that this is true for everywhere but not eating dairy because of cruelty to animals in Australia is a bit much.

Just out of interest, what is this "process" you refer to that is the cruel bit?


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## djar007 (16/12/13)

Whenever business needs to profit from animals the animals suffer. I understand. I worked as a ringer on cattle stations. Most cattle sent live export. Have quite a few mates who work in the dairy industry. I also had some experience through alpacas with the Paris Creek dairy operation. Proof to me that dairy products can be produced ethically and sustainably. That was my point. There is cruelty throughout primary producers. There is also ethical primary producers.


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## Glot (16/12/13)

1. Yes I do know what I am talking about.
2. I am not going to bombard you with details as this is a brewing site and not a site for discussing animal humanity or nutrition ( unless it is yeast nutrition).
Therefore, I am not going to be drawn into an irrelevant conversation but instead am going to go pour another dark wheat.


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## djar007 (16/12/13)

Have you ever milked a cat?


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## Not For Horses (16/12/13)

I think, well vague memory actually, in Europe in the middle ages they did milk cats.
Not sure about yoghurt but I think they made cheese.
I honestly can't recall where I read this though so take with a grain of salt.
Or milk. Cats like milk.


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## djar007 (16/12/13)

And they are known to be lactose intolerant. Anyway I am here to learn more about making my own yoghurt. So apologies for the derailment. Very interested in Bribies feedback. And everyone elses. Regards dave


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## Byran (16/12/13)

Id like to know what the cruel part is of the main ingredient used in this thread?


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## Not For Horses (16/12/13)

It has inspired me to try again.
I might try the wild culture capture again. It actually made very tasty yoghurt. Didn't last as well as the bribie version though.


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## NewtownClown (17/12/13)

Glot said:


> There are other reasons for not wanting to use dairy other than lactose issues. Cruelty to animals is one at the top of my list.


 I assume you don't use any finings or gelatin then? Since you have decided not to proselytise and fan the flames of debate over the issue; I, also, will not, and I hope this thread doesn't get derailed into the rights and wrongs of eating things that once had a face... (mmmmmmm faces :icon_drool2: )

When making yoghurt with this method, is it normal for the whey to be be separated and floating on top when "fermentation" is complete and the yoghurt removed from the "incubator"?


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## TimT (17/12/13)

_When making yoghurt with this method, is it normal for the whey to be be separated and floating on top when "fermentation" is complete and the yoghurt removed from the "incubator"?_

NewtownClown - you mean with gelatin/finings? I haven't tried that method but it probably is normal. What you see in yoghurt is a partial clabber, with the curds beginning to separate from the whey. The addition of rennet (an enzyme), as it were, encourages this to happen so the separation is very clean. My guess is gelatin and finings would work in a similar way. I also wouldn't be surprised if some of the strongest yoghurt cultures were sufficient to cause this separation themsevles, indeed once when I left my culture out for a bit longer than usual this is exactly what did happen.


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## Bribie G (17/12/13)

TimT I think he was referring to the use of animal products in beer.
Ayurvedic cooking relies heavily on yogurt and curds as they only allow animal foods that have been "gently obtained".


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## TimT (17/12/13)

If that's the case then what is 'this method' that you are referring to NewtownClown?


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## NewtownClown (17/12/13)

I was enquiring of Glot as to whether or not _*he*_ uses gelatin/finings when brewing, for they are, invariably, made from animals. By his original first post in this thread stating his main reason for avoiding dairy products was due to animal cruelty (personally, cruelty to humans is priority). Makes me wonder why one who takes that stand would even visit a thread on yoghurt if it wasn't to be critical...

As for the yoghurt, I made my first batch last night, Due to interruptions from visitors, the milk "pastuerised" for just over an hour and towards the end of the 4 hours incubation (or is it fermentation?) a further distraction saw me accidentally bump the temp. up to 54C.

I wondered if that had caused the separation for I poured off (into a glass and drank) close to 150 ml of whey from a 700 ml batch before fridging the culture.


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## NewtownClown (17/12/13)

TimT said:


> If that's the case then what is 'this method' that you are referring to NewtownClown?


 "This method" refers to the entire subject started by Wolfy in this thread... .


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## Dave70 (17/12/13)

Glot said:


> There are other reasons for not wanting to use dairy other than lactose issues. Cruelty to animals is one at the top of my list.


Having fluid gently drawn from an appendage twice daily whilst eating constitutes cruelty?

Call me a masochist then.


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## TimT (17/12/13)

Ah. Thanks for the clarification NC.

I think the super-long pasteurisation time may have had something to do with encouraging the separation: you'll notice when you heat milk to near boiling it develops a frothy head that can be scooped off and discarded. And of course the 'skin' that develops on hot chocolates is well known.

Indeed, 4/5 hours is not normally a very long culturing time for yoghurt.


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## TimT (17/12/13)

Going to have to look up the cat-milk reference!

I've heard of yoghurt and/or cheese from cow milk, ass milk, goat milk, sheep milk, buffalo milk, and, yes, even human breast milk. But not cats!

You could also try making yoghurt from man-breast milk from a lactating male... though they're hard to come by, and anyway a doctor friend told me she thinks the substance produced by lactating males is entirely different to that produced by lactating females.


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## NewtownClown (17/12/13)

Loved fermented camel milk in East Africa and had a "beer" in northern Nigeria that I was sure had been either fermented or soured with goats milk...


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## TimT (17/12/13)

Getting obscure now, but some species of ants have been known to farm and 'milk' aphids - stroking them with their ant feelers to make them produce a substance that they then drink. Imagine using that in a cheese! But it would be hard to get (Charles Darwin once tried to simulate the effect by tickling aphids with a hair, because he was that kinda guy) and anyway, it would probably be dud for cheese (only mammals lactate) but much better for brewing (it's a type of honeydew, gathered from plants).


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## NewtownClown (17/12/13)

TimT said:


> Indeed, 4/5 hours is not normally a very long culturing time for yoghurt.


 I went with 4/5 hours as that was a time generally indicated in the links Wolfy ( a BIG shout out and thanks to Wolfy for the tutorial, by the way) provided as well as in my own "independant" research.
Whilst it is tart and has bite, I will definitely leave it longer (overnight) for more. In that respect, is it reasonable to assume the critters are now dormant and could be revived to continue the job by warming it back up? I won't do it with this batch for I have "double-dipped" with a spoon a few times this morning already :icon_drool2:


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## TimT (17/12/13)

Ah. Well I generally see 8-12 hours as the time frame, sometimes up to as long as two days.

Cold does calm the critters down: yoghurt keeps in the fridge for up to a week, in the freezer for up to a month. Thermophilic (heat loving) culture that thrives in temps of about 40 degrees celsius probably calms down a bit and becomes dormant at temps of 25/20/15, but I'm not entirely sure about that. Fridge and freezer are generally recommended.

Bitter yoghurt often results from a high quantity of culture to milk, and that may account for the short culturing time too.


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## benno1973 (17/12/13)

We tend to do 5-6 hours, although I'm often lazy and forgetful, so it can go up to 12 hours before I fridge it. I find the longer it incubates, the more the 'tang'. Also, ours always gets a small amount of whey separating at the top which we either mix back in, or strain off if we want a thicker yoghurt...


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## Bribie G (17/12/13)

Just finished my last jar of yogurt from my original post of a few weeks ago, it was as good as the first one. Very pleased, and glad to be into this new "hobby", Colesworths can bite their bums with their $6 rip off.

I see that Aldi Just Organic plain yogurt 1kg is only $4.30 - that's where all my bottles came from.


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## NewtownClown (17/12/13)

Is there any difference to using full fat powdered milk as opposed to low fat as per many blogs/recipes state?


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## Airgead (17/12/13)

I have seen a lot of recipes recommending low fat powdered milk and I believe the reasoning is to increase the amount of milk solids present which makes for a firmer set without adding extra fat.

Using full fat milk powder would increase both milk solids and fat.

Cheers
Dave


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## lael (17/12/13)

I used full fat - I like creamy yoghurt - not sure if there is a difference apart from that?


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## TimT (17/12/13)

Again I think it all depends. My vilii yoghurt culture contains several lactobacilli types, including 'subspecies cremoris', which looooooooves the creamy party of milk. (Annoying, because I do too). Since I used unhomogenised milk, I often find floating on the top of a mature vilii culture what is essentially mascarpone cheese - and what's below is essentially a buttermilky/light yoghurty mixture. But maybe other cultures don't care so much about light milk/full fat milk.


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## NewtownClown (17/12/13)

Cheers for the feedback, guys


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## of mice and gods (13/1/14)

So has anyone tried to culture yakult type drinking yoghurt/fermented milk?

I've been thinking with the amount of beer i drink and other unhealthy habits I need to get a bit more of the pro-biotics going into my system. I did notice a significant difference when eating my home fermented sauerkraut, so I thought culturing a bottle of yakult into a 2L milk bottle would give me an ample supply to have a glass of in the morning or other times when my guts are being a bit unpredictable.

Al


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## lael (28/2/14)

just an update - did another batch last weekend in the braumiser and it turned out beautifully. Thick, creamy and delicious - half was notably better than the other half though...

4x 2kg tubs
brought coles full cream milk to 85/88C for 20 mins, put in sink to chill to 40C, split to 4 tubs, put in 1.25-1.5 cups of milk powder and mixed. Set in brau at 41C for 4 hours (automated) and left until morning (would have finished around 2am or so - lid was left off, so would have dropped temp after setting). Set beautifully, very creamy.

I was using devondale full cream powdered milk, but ran out and used coles powdered milk in 2 of the tubs. There is a noticable difference between the two. So - normal Coles full cream + Devondale powdered is a winner. 2L milk, 1.25-1.5 cups powdered milk (so slightly less than 2L milk...).

I used a split of five am greek and jalna biodynamic as my starter cultures. I upped the powdered milk to compensate for the lack of the Paul's Gold as they didn't have any at either coles or woollies at the time. Worked well!


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## Bribie G (28/2/14)

Thanks for updating the thread, lael.

I'm onto my fourth batch of yog, made quite a nice batch as suggested by Florian with just with long life full cream milk plus full cream milk powder and a tub of Coles own brand plain yog as the culture.

However my absolute best results so far are my latest batch.

Manning Valley Farmers unhomogenised milk plus a good dose of Aldi full cream milk powder and a kilo tub of Aldi "Just Organic" plain yog to make six kilo tubs, in the Crown Urn at 40 degrees. I note that the Aldi stuff has acidophilus as well as a number of other strains, whilst the Bornhoffen only mentions thermophilic strains such as Strep. Therm. Pity they lost the plot and sold out to industrial strains. As mentioned, Bornhoffen used to be called Bornhoffen Acidophilus but no more. 

Really rich and almost like a cream cheese, and so much yummy butterfat that the tops of the tubs are covered with a thin disc of cruncy cultured butter. Also it's not eye watering sour, very well balanced.

Using a whole tub of Aldi is good value as it gets me an extra plastic bottle for batches, to give away or reuse, and it doesn't bump the cost up much when split among six kilos.


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## Ducatiboy stu (28/2/14)

Glot....WTF are you on about..

How is the fairly simple task of milking a cow twice daily that causes them no stress an issue of animal cruelty....having been around dairies I think your talking out your arse.

Its not like the farmer puts a gun to the cows head and demands milk...

Milking cows is about as cruel as making a 5yr old eat vegetables.


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## Edak (23/4/14)

So I wanted to chime in on this yogurt thing, not the animal stuff rather the actual topic. 
I got a easiyo and did my first batch and it was wonderful. I want to keep the process simple so the Mrs starts to do it herself, thus I didn't plan on using braumeister as she won't go near it. I want to go ahead and use powdered milk as that's super easy, and is the majority of the easiyo product anyway.

Here is an interesting question though, has anyone used flavour and aroma hops in their yogurt? Galaxy yogurt? Would such a thing be possible?


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## TimT (23/4/14)

You probably could Edak. Not sure if the lactobacilli would like the hops, or vice versa (hops help preserve beer from unwanted bacterial influences after all). Most discussion about yoghurt flavouring, in my discussion, usually assumes the flavouring to be strawberry, apple, chocolate, something like that....


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## Edak (23/4/14)

Yeah I know those standard flavours but there is also passionfruit and other characteristics you might get from steeping some hops. The antibacterial factor might be a problem which is why I asked. Might as well give it a go I guess. If its great then I will be obliged to market it as beerghurt


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## lael (23/4/14)

Is galaxy passion fruit? Make a passion fruit coolois to add to it?


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## Edak (23/4/14)

lael said:


> Is galaxy passion fruit? Make a passion fruit coolois to add to it?


Cheers lael, that's not using beer ingredients though  
I was just putting it out there that's all. Maybe call it ho-ghurt...


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## TimT (23/4/14)

Heh, well passionfruit is definitely the more conventional way to add passionfruit flavour to yoghurt. (You could probably do the same in beer, come to think of it.) Go ahead. I think it should work (it's not as if hops deter all lacto-bacilli in beer after all, or the infection thread wouldn't exist). Your main problem, I think, is that results might be super bitter. I suppose you could either chuck the hops in to the milk when you heat it or dry hop them later.


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## Airgead (23/4/14)

You could try making a hop tincture (or use one of those hop extracts) and stir in once the yogurt is finished. That way it won't inhibit the lactic fermentation. Add a drop at a time until you get something you like. Or until it gets too revolting to continue with. Whatever comes first.


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## lael (23/4/14)

He he, no it is not a beer ingredient... But then neither is yoghurt . You should make your wife some yoghurt in the Brau and compare.I've been very impressed with how it turns out. Fave seed yoghurt is five am Greek organic and / or mixed with jalna Greek. Five am is super creamy and sets nicely. Jalna has a touch of bite and sets firm as well. 

I made a hop tea for a brew a few weeks back. Was definitely noticeably bitter. I would wonder if the yoghurt would set properly if you add it in before it has firmed up. Let us know!


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## NewtownClown (23/4/14)

lael said:


> He he, no it is not a beer ingredient... But then neither is yoghurt .


What? Tell that to my Cherry'n'Berries sour ale, fermented and soured with home made greek yoghurt


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## Bribie G (6/5/14)

Unfortunately Aldi have discontinued their Organic yogurt in kilo plastic barrels with a lid that are perfect containers for making yogurt in your esky or urn if you collect them over a period (use them as starters or get people to collect them for you)

However I've noticed that Jalna are in identical tubs so I guess they were the suppliers. At over six bucks Jalna still works out ok as a starter.

My latest batch today I've taken up Florian's suggestion of using long life milk - it's really super easy, only takes a few minutes to get up to temperature then pour into jars and leave to incubate. I'm no longer using the urn, I find that an esky with water bath holds nicely.


5 kilos;

4 litres Coles Long Life Milk
1 kilo tub Jalna Greek
300g full cream powdered milk

Jalna has an excellent culture, Acidophilus and also Casei (think Yakult) and runs at 37 degrees.


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## lael (6/5/14)

Sounds intersting, let us know how it sets! I've found 5am organic Greek to be excellent as a started culture too - maybe more mild and creamy if you like that.


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## Edak (8/5/14)

I have done a couple batches using 1L UHT, 1/2 cup powdered and a jalna starter. Its a good mix. UHT rocks for this because its just takes out the heating cooling required of normal milk and has better consistency than powdered. Greek using this method is amazing too!


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## Edak (8/5/14)

When I day jalna starter I am talking two tablespoons.


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## Rodolphe01 (8/5/14)

1kg yoghurt for 4 litres milk is a massive starter, the other night I used 200g jalna greek tub for 3 litres milk and it has set perfectly. I would even give 4 litres milk a go with 200g based on my results.

I use my slow cooker or urn sous vide set-up to regulate my yoghurt temp these days, 45 degrees in case anyone was interested.

My recipe is similar as above - 3 litres semi-skim long life milk, 3 cups low fat milk powder, small tub bought yoghurt - sets and tastes good, naturally full fat is way better, but i'm fat enough from beer 

I have re-used my own yoghurt as a starter and also used freeze dried culture with good results but have found a small tub from the supermarket to be cheap and easy enough.


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## Bribie G (8/5/14)

I tipped the whole tub in, I'll use the small one next time and see how it goes.


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## lael (8/5/14)

Last time around I made a small glass jar to use as a starter for the next batch. 8kg batch (4x2kg tubs) and I think I use close to a full tub (2 heaped tbsp per ltr) I don't think you need that much though. Be interested to hear what is the minimum ppl can get away with.

Edak - I'll give UHT a go. Certainly would make the process quicker! Any particular brand you've used?


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## Edak (8/5/14)

I went with the devondale stuff from woolies because it was on special at 90 cents per litre. The blue one that is. Milk powder is the aldi brand. All full fat...


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## Edak (8/5/14)

Oh and for those not in the know, UHT is ultra heat treated, hence why it doesn't need heating up. It's still 100% milk.


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## Bribie G (8/5/14)

If using "fresh milk" that's been homogenised and pasteurised it's still got microorganisms in it, that's why it goes off after a few days. So if you are going to heat it to near boiling to kill the bugs so you can leave the yogurt bugs a clean canvas to work on, you have basically made your own UHT milk anyway.

edit: so save on power and buy the UHT.


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## lael (10/5/14)

I tried making a batch with the uht last night. It didn't set as thickly and doesnt taste as... Yoghurty... as I am used to. Not a huge fan, but... I used the seed yoghurt I made in a jar last time... So that may have been the issue. I'll make yoghurt my normal way next time and make one uht to compare.


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## TimT (10/5/14)

Folks round here seem big fans of the UHT but it's a big no-no when you make cheese (yoghurt is included as cheese, really it's just a cheese with a shorter culturation period that hasn't had rennet added). When you UHT milk you denature the proteins and make the milk a lot less like, well, milk. Taste UHT and then taste some normal pasteurised milk and you'll notice the difference. UHT just tastes kinda flat. Its shelf life is superb; not much else about it is good though.

The other issue of course is a lot of yoghurt culture degrades over time, basically because of the way most commercial manufacturers and scientists get their culture strains - basically picking one single bacteria cell and reproducing it so they have a known, reliable commodity. Cultures produced these ways are weaker, more susceptible to viruses and haven't developed the ability to survive in a variety of conditions - see if you can buy a heirloom culture, they're stronger and if treated properly should last forever. (Think I've mentioned this before, there should be a link to my supplier earlier in this thread or the cheese thread.)


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## TimT (10/5/14)

Here's my yoghurt culture supplier! 

FWIW though I don't take yoghurt notes unofficially I've noticed the best yoghurt tends to come from raw milk. The best milk too, in fact, taste it - delicious!


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## koots (10/5/14)

Holy ****! The link above to a Villi culture just made my dreams come true. I travelled Iceland for a while and ate a whole of a product calld 'Skyr' while I was there. Myself and friends were addicted to it, bought it everywheree we could. I searched long and hard for a recipe to make it or for a similar product and came up with nothing and low and behold, a link to a product that will create a similar product. Thankyou TimT! To make things even better it cultures at room temperature apparently so I don't even have to do anything really haha. Absolutely stoked!!!


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## TimT (10/5/14)

I've been looking for Skyr culture too!

My villi culture is probably lab synthesised too actually, not an authentic original strain. I *still* want to get a heirloom culture that has been passed down through many generations - it's possible there may be some in Australia, in fact I'm almost certain that somehow, somewhere, someone has brought in a jar of skyr or villi from Iceland or Finland.

Originally many villis were a symbiosis of yeast and bacterial culture. (Mine's just a bacterial culture).

The subject of heirloom cultures is a long and fascinating one.

Have a look round on that website, that manufacturer - 'Cultures for Life' - sell several strains of yoghurt, both mesophilic (room-temp loving) and thermophilic (heat-loving) cultures. I love my villi culture. One year and still going strong!


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## koots (10/5/14)

Well it appears I need to do some more reading, I've only had a quick skim over this thread prior to today. One of the fellas I went to Iceland with might be going back later in the year, I wonder how he could get Skyr back to me? haha perhaps ship a solid block of ice express somehow with Skyr in the middle?


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## TimT (10/5/14)

I have heard it said 'the only way to make skyr is with another bunch of skyr' but that's probably not wholly true, unless it really does contain unique lacto-bacilli that are not found in other cheeses and yoghurts around the world. Then again almost undoubtedly it contains a unique combination of existing strains of lacto-bacilli. Geeze, I make it sound so romantic and magical don't I!

Love to hear if you do get some skyr from the home country; I'd definitely want to culture some for myself. In the meantime those 'Cultures for Life' products are a good substitute/starter.


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## koots (7/7/14)

How is the culture effected if Skyr were to be posted here? Obviously the yogurt would be rank but what actually happens when it goes off? As it's sealed it can't get infected with other things is it just the bugs take over?


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## TimT (8/7/14)

I pretty much don't know! Making an educated guess, I'd say as long as it's sealed you could use it as a starter.

Like a sourdough culture, it might be affected by changes in temperature, so, cool = better for the bacteria, warm = better for the yeast. That is, as long as it's a stable culture, the bugs might adjust themselves to the conditions. As soon as you get it I'd feed it or reculture it - the longer between batches, the more likely something will go wrong.


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## hoppy2B (8/7/14)

TimT said:


> I've been looking for Skyr culture too!
> 
> My villi culture is probably lab synthesised too actually, not an authentic original strain. I *still* want to get a heirloom culture that has been passed down through many generations - it's possible there may be some in Australia, in fact I'm almost certain that somehow, somewhere, someone has brought in a jar of skyr or villi from Iceland or Finland.
> 
> ...


Hi Tim,

What is the flavour like of your villi culture? I had a good look at that website and after checking all the cultures came up with the conclusion that the viili was the one I would most like to purchase. I read one report that it can be a bit sour. Cheers.


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## TimT (8/7/14)

I find the flavour of the villi to be not so intense as other yoghurts out there. I'd definitely give it a go.

The flavour does vary. When we first got it, for the first two/three runs it had a yoghurty sourness as well as a kind of metallic flavour. (Normal - some cultures do have this). However, that may have been partly because it was cultured for about three days on the first run as per recommendations.

If you leave the villi out to culture longer the yoghurty sour-bitterness will intensify; basically the lacto-bacilli will keep on working and producing more lactic acid. But, as a bonus, the yoghurt will continue to curdle and go from a kind of buttermilky consistency to a cheese-curdy consistency. So there's a bit of a pay off.

The variety of milk you use will also affect it (it loves the cream at the top of unhomogenised mlk, but then, so do I, so we have to fight it out). So be prepared to try different varieties of milk.

You can always backsweeten/flavour with fruits/whatever!


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## hoppy2B (8/7/14)

Thanks for that Tim. Some interesting comments there.

After some searching on yogurt making and various different cultures, I found myself on the website of the company that makes the product you linked to about 10 posts ago and I noticed they have a buttermilk/sour cream culture that contains almost the same cultural species as the viili with the addition of an extra Lacto. Is there any dairy product available in the supermarket that you have tried that you think may taste similar to the viili?

I'm wondering if there is anything available locally that I could use as a starter, like buttermilk for example or sour cream. To that I would perhaps add some some cheese culture. Bit hit and miss I suppose.


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## TimT (8/7/14)

Unsalted buttermilk is probably the closest product in the stores (though less sour.... wouldn't want to offend the punters). You could try using supermarket products as starters, they would work at a pinch though they wouldn't be heirloom varieties.

You could also try getting a wild lacto culture. The bacteria live naturally on a lot of fruit and veg, and of course you would find them in unpasteurised milk....


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## hoppy2B (8/7/14)

OK that's cool, thanks for that. I might try buttermilk with some soft curd cheese just to see what happens.  Hopefully it will do its thing at room temp. I might have to do them separately first to make sure each is working.

Failing that, my mother told me earlier today that they have better yoghurts in Europe, so maybe I can get one of the relatives to send over a sample after they have done some testing to find a good one with the necessary attributes.


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## Bribie G (10/7/14)

Heads up for NSW ...

Country Brewer franchises stock a wide range of Yogurt and Kefir cultures. I'll be picking some up tomorrow from Maitland with my brew requirements.


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## hoppy2B (10/7/14)

Thanks for the tip Bribie G. 

I picked up some Kefir starter and a few others this arvo down here in S.A. from Country Brewer. Mother dear asked me the other day if I could get any Kefir.

All this talk of Skyr 'yoghurt' over the past few days has had me doing a lot of research online, mostly regarding cheese making. I've also asked my mother about her experiences as a child because she mentioned a cottage cheese they ate back home that formed in the bottom of the milk container in summer when it was put aside for the cream to rise.

I've come up with a few conclusions and I believe that Skyr probably wasn't necessarily cultured over many generations and most likely formed naturally in milk. Skyr historically is mostly likely just a cottage cheese.

That's not to say that Skyr isn't cultured in this day and age, because it most likely is. Its possible that some people cultured it, but if you let milk stand it will naturally curdle and form cottage cheese. And that's all people did back in those days.

Edt : spelling


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## Bribie G (10/7/14)

That really brought it back to me, when I lived in Turkey for a year in the 1970s there was a market in the little town a couple of times a week and old ladies would turn up with a goat skin full of yogurt and a set of scales.





You provide your own container and she removes the plug from the neck hole and pours yogurt.

Apparently Kefir was made that way, just fill up the late goat with fresh milk from the surviving goats or sheep, and hang it up for a day or so, culture is already inside the skin from previous brews.

According to a couple of sites I've read it was customary to hang the goat next to the door so visitors would punch the skin on the way in and out to keep the contents working and fermenting.


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## TimT (10/7/14)

Kefir is weird. Since the little yeast-bacteria things that form are referred to as 'grains' I used to think that there was a plant that grew somewhere - the kefir plant - that had these seeds which typically contained a thriving yeast-bacterial colony. Nope. They just formed spontaneously, at some point in history, and spread when Mum and Dad would hand them on to the kids. "Here kids! You get this yurt, the goat, and these.... little blobby alien freakazoid things. No need to thank me! I'll be dead in a second anyway!"

I remember reading a while ago about an experiment in which scientists were doing things to raw goat milk - probably weird, unnatural, perverted things, knowing those scientists - and, for no apparent reason at all, kefir started forming. "The aliens are attacking again! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!" "Oh no, we'll just send it off to a organics shop and say it's probiotic, those hippies will buy anything if it's called that."

Er, pardon me. As you were.


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## Mardoo (10/7/14)

Love my kefir! I just got a culture again after a few years without. The occasional agitation, as with the skinful you mentioned BribieG, makes a noticeable difference AFAIC.


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## Bribie G (14/7/14)

Guys, got my Kefir culture home safely today and going to make a batch overnight.

When making Kefir on supermarket pasteurised milk, should it (as with yogurt) be heated up to near boiling first then cooled, inoculated and fermented at the recommended temperature, or just heat the milk up to recommended (about 30 ish) then inoculate?


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## TimT (14/7/14)

I wouldn't ever do heat milk up to near boiling, as in my induction into cheesemaking I have been taught to fear that. Others might.


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## Mardoo (14/7/14)

Bribie, are you starting from a packaged culture or have you gotten one from a friend? I can't offer any advice about getting packaged cultures up and running as I've only gotten them from friends.

I've never incubated my kefir at any particular temperature or heated the milk in any way. I just bung it in a non-airtight vessel, add the milk straight from the fridge and put the vessel on a shelf. I gently stir it at least every 12 hours or agitate it gently, preferably more often (tastes better). I do this because I read that traditionally kefir was hung by the door in a skin bag so that people would bump it whenever they went in and out the door. So I reckoned occasional agitation would be good for it.

I tend to harvest at around the 36 hour mark. I like it slightly yeasty, but find I get the runs sometimes from drinking it at that phase, so I wait until it's passed the yeast-dominant phase and gone into the bacterial-dominant phase and starts to get a noticeable sour. By the way those phases are by my reckoning and not scientifically verified. When the colony gets too big just pass your extra onto a friend, or some people eat them for an extra probiotic boost. You'll almost certainly run out of friends who want it, as it grows pretty quickly, so eating your own young becomes an option.


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## Bribie G (14/7/14)

Thanks.

I've got the powdered culture bought through Country Brewer. It lists a heap of microorganisms I've never heard of, and hoping that as I ferment it, the "grains" may possibly develop. That would be excellent.
Do you get a sediment of "grains" that sink to the bottom, or something, or do they just float in the mixture?

Won't be able to pass it on to grandchildren unless my son and his husband decide to adopt.


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## Mardoo (14/7/14)

Yep, the grains should develop, little clearish jelly globules. They float at the top. They can get very sizeable, a big handful. The fat and protein coagulates at the top of the milk around them and it all floats on the whey. Strain the grains out, especially at the beginning as they would be small. Actually I strain every time now that I think of it. Then you can get the grains out, as well as break up the curds and mix them back into the whey. I recommend rinsing the grains every other batch or so. Keeps the flavor cleaner, but I'm not sure whether or not that's what you're supposed to do.

I'll try to remember next time I need to get rid of some (probably about 6 weeks off) and PM you. I can send you some. Don't forget that kefir is robust. It's been around since long before temperature control was around and in cultures in places with huge temperature variations.

BTW my wife who is quite sensitive to lactose gets zero reaction from kefir.


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## Mardoo (15/7/14)

BribieG here's a photo of what my kefir grains look like. They are freakishly huge. I've made kefir with grains 1/8th that size, it just takes a little longer.


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## Bribie G (15/7/14)

Wow frog spawn. !!
I've got two packs of Kefir culture from Country Brewer, I'll see if they develop grains. Thanks.


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## Bribie G (15/7/14)

I just had a glass of room temperature 16 hour Kefir.


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## Mardoo (15/7/14)

Were the angels singing? Yeah, kind of like the best buttermilk you've ever had, unless you had it on a farm. Milk quality makes a subtle but noticeable difference. Likely, being a brewer who assesses flavors, you would notice the difference. I haven't tried raw milk yet but plan on it.

What were the commercial grains like? Very curious. Did they re-hydrate and expand? Or is it more like a powdered culture?


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## Bribie G (15/7/14)

They sang in a heavenly choir. Powdered culture. It seems to tick all the boxes so far. AFAIK there's no grains available commercially.

I'm interested to see if this develops grains, probably not. In that case I'll take you up on your kind offer of the grains.

Man this stuff is lovely, sort of slimy .. it just bathes the mouth then slithers down the throat leaving this creamy glowing aftertaste that lingers and lingers. I'm also getting that slight effervescent tingle.

I just cultured it in the 2L milk bottles in a warm bath in esky, have now taken them out and drop to mid teens in the garage, interested to find out what it's like for brekkie. My next lot will be on Manning Valley Farmers non-homogenised milk, cream on top, available here from the Mid North Coast Woolies stores.


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## Bribie G (16/7/14)

Anyone looking for Vilii and other cultures such as Kombucha, I've found this guy: 

Excuse the Geocities style web page !!


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## Mardoo (16/7/14)

Now, that is quite a website!!!!! :beer:


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## Bribie G (16/7/14)

Thank God they don't still allow the "blink" tag :unsure:


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## Airgead (17/7/14)

That's some pretty mad HTML Skilz there. L33t.


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## hoppy2B (17/7/14)

I just tried my kefir today. Its been sitting in the fridge all week. Same as Bribie, I just dropped some powder into a 2 litre milk bottle and stood it in a warm bath overnight. 

Tastewise its a lot like a sour yoghurt and it is indeed very slimey. It came out pretty thick so I'm wandering if I cultured it too long. I also used full cream homogenized milk and am wondering if if would be less slimey with unhomogenized milk.

How does yours compare with the above description Mardoo?


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## hoppy2B (17/7/14)

Bribie G said:


> Anyone looking for Vilii and other cultures such as Kombucha, I've found this guy:
> 
> Excuse the Geocities style web page !!


That guy says he uses Paris Creek organic milk. That's in the Adelaide hills so I wonder if he is in S.A. and is available for pickups. I should send him an email when I need something. :blink:


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## Bribie G (17/7/14)

Mine was a bit slimy to start off with but after an extra day it's more like buttermilk, if shaken up in the bottle before pouring to get the whey and the kefir well mixed. Dutch mate of mine said it reminded her of the buttermilk she grew up on in Holland.


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## Mardoo (17/7/14)

It may have gone a bit long. The longer the kefir ferments the more of the milk fat and protein forms a plug on top of the whey. I just run it through a sieve. FWIW I ferment mine 36 hours at room temp, which varies between 16 and 21 in our house. As you go you'll find how long you like it fermented. It's very much a personal thing, nothing set in stone.


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## Bribie G (18/7/14)

I followed the guidelines on the pack: half a teaspoon of culture in a litre of milk at 32 degrees and hold it there for 16 hours.

Then I put the bottles in the garage at ambient (about 14).

Initially it was a bit ropey and chewy, then the second day it started separating and needed a good shake for it to even pour.

Third day a good shake would result in a smooth drink that's still a bit more solid than buttermilk.

The culture seems to be working fine, but I've ordered some fresh Kefir grains from that Dom guy.. and yes they are in Adelaide. If you have any questions you can email Sandra there.

It will be interesting to see what difference the grains make, and Mardoo and I might swap some grains down the track, get a sort of "kefir bank" happening in case one lot fails for some reason.


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## hoppy2B (18/7/14)

Thanks for that Bribie. How much is it costing you to get some grains sent out?


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## Bribie G (18/7/14)

Around $29 plus postage, but as they say purchase once and have them forever. I'm drinking about half a litre a day. If you can pick them up then you'll save on the post pack.


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## Bribie G (19/5/15)

UPDATE

Bringing this yoghurt thread back on track to yoghurt 

I've been using the Country Brewer yoghurt cultures for a year now and have a reliable source of really good yoghurt. In the beginning I had a series of yoghurts that tasted ok but were unpleasantly stringy and ropey. I discovered that this was because I wasn't _denaturing _the milk protein properly, I should have brought the milk up to just sub-boiling then let it cool to around 43 degrees before "pitching" the culture. I wasn't heating it enough and when I did I ended up with a bit of milk scorching and a nasty pan to clean.

Then I remembered a post by Florian where he recommended using UHT milk. Not only is UHT sterile but it's had it's proteins denatured already during the heating process so the yoghurt culture has a clean slate. I add some powdered full cream milk as well, similarly nuked. Turns out brilliant, I also use glass mason jars and crank out the yog for around $1.30 a kilo.

So anyone who has been put off making yogurt due to the hassle of the heating and cooling process, you can whip up a batch in about 20 minutes by simply achieving 43 degrees, add culture, pour into jars and place in water bath and the job's done. Next experiment will be to preheat the milk cartons themselves to 43 in a water bath in urn so not even a pan required.


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## fraser_john (19/5/15)

Bribie G said:


> UPDATE
> 
> Bringing this yoghurt thread back on track to yoghurt
> 
> ...


Bribie,

I like the UHT idea!

You should try evaporated milk instead of powdered. Sometimes powdered milk has that "powdered milk" flavour, using evaporated milk avoids that and it seems to make the yoghurt thicker as well.

I also go to a cake decoration shop and buy the cake flavouring, blueberry and raspberry are the favourites in our house.


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## benno1973 (19/5/15)

...or if you're even shorter on time and patience, incubate the yoghurt in a thermos. No need for the water bath.

To derail the topic back to kefir, we just spent 4 months traveling through Malaysia, Cambodia, Thailand, Laos and Vietnam. Took a small jar of kefir grains with us and drank kefir every day, even made the kids choke it down (it's a bit sour, not particularly kid friendly). Ate street food every day, and not one instance of getting sick. Not to say that it's due to the kefir, that's just anecdotal, but I am a firm believer that it's a huge boost for your gut being able to ward off any bad bugs.


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## TimT (19/5/15)

_To derail the topic back to kefir, we just spent 4 months traveling through Malaysia, Cambodia, Thailand, Laos and Vietnam. Took a small jar of kefir grains with us and drank kefir every day, even made the kids choke it down (it's a bit sour, not particularly kid friendly). Ate street food every day, and not one instance of getting sick. Not to say that it's due to the kefir, that's just anecdotal, but I am a firm believer that it's a huge boost for your gut being able to ward off any bad bugs._

This is interesting stuff Kaiser. I'm a bit of a raw milk freak and have heard similar anecdotes amongst raw milk enthusiasts - it helps to counter possible infections, good for people with allergies, etc. Now as you so carefully imply, anecdotal evidence on its own is not really good enough. But it seems likely that there would be _some _connection between susceptibility to infection and the microbial content of foods people consume.

Maybe it's just a topic that's inherently complex - because the bacterias and yeasts that you find in kefir, yoghurt, and raw milk are themselves so freaking complex that it's incredibly difficult to make any generalisations about the connection between them and personal health. I do wonder about the research that has been done into this subject though.


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## Ducatiboy stu (19/5/15)

Not unlike beer

Bacteria/yeast turn a quickly perishable product into something that can be stored for longer periods of time


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## Aces High (19/5/15)

Bribie G said:


> UPDATE
> 
> Bringing this yoghurt thread back on track to yoghurt
> 
> ...


just a tip.....my crappy rice cooker that really doesn't cook rice very well will hold water at exactly 43 degrees when its on its "keep warm" setting. 

Makes a great water bath and pretty handy for making yoghurt.


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## manticle (19/5/15)

My partner brought home white ayran yoghurt yesterday.
Initially thought she'd joined the Natinal Front but all good. Turkish, salted yoghurt it is.
Got my work cut out for me when I settle interstate.


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## Danscraftbeer (21/5/15)

Excellent thread. Not just a bunch of beer swillin yobo's on this forum thats for sure..
Just finished my first Kefir and mixed the next one. Just read this whole thread.
Trying the yoghurt methods first batch just put in the esky water bath at 38c. Gonna leave it there all night.

Nice quick sauce to spill over your steamed vegies.

Thick and creamy Kefir, crushed garlic, touch of Beer vinegar, touch of hot chilli sauce. Mix well and ..... :icon_drool2:
Totally beats my favorite bought creamy ceasor salad dressing sauce off the shelf that's really expensive,
ha gotta love that!


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## TimT (22/5/15)

_Not just a bunch of beer swillin yobo's on this forum thats for sure.._

Yep. Beer _and _kefir swilling yobs.


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## hoppy2B (27/5/15)

Had to share the good news. I scored a cup full of free Kefir grains on Monday from a friend who got it from her brother who got them from Dom.

Apparently my friend's brother (who is also a friend of our family) had been having trouble for the last 30 years whenever he ate onions and garlic. It always gave him stomach pains. After he started consuming Kefir he was finally able to eat onions and garlic without any side effects.

I've been adding milk to my Kefir grains every day to build up the volume before I get stuck into it. I did taste some of my friend's Kefir when I got the grains and think it is a lot better than the stuff I made using the powdered culture. Definitely worth getting some grains if anyone is thinking about it.

P.S. : Some great tips on the yoghurt making with UHT milt and condensed milk fellas. :super:


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## Danwood (16/6/15)

Has anyone added coconut milk when making yoghurt ?

I'm going to try a batch for the wife, who's been doing backflips over this Jalna stuff (I have to admit, it is pretty bloody good).

I assume the coconut milk/cream would still be left at the end of the process, it not actually being a dairy product, but would it impart the flavour (I'd guess yes)?

And would it affect the cultures (I'd guess dunno)?

I plan on using a few tbsps of the Jalna for it's cultures.

Thanks for any advice,

Dan


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## TimT (16/6/15)

You should be able to. Never done it myself. Bear in mind the natural environment of the lacto-bacilli is animal milk and it just won't thrive in coconut milk, almond milk, or any of the other non-animal-based milks.

I think you'd probably get some souring and fatty parts of the coconut milk separating out. Be interested to hear how it goes.


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## benno1973 (16/6/15)

I haven't made coconut milk yoghurt, but I have done kefir that way. Kefir grains in a tin of cocnut milk from memory, and it was gooood! I'm sure I have some notes on it somewhere... looking for them now...


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## Danwood (16/6/15)

Ok, thanks.

I plan on using a 3:1 ratio of milk to coconut milk, maybe 4:1.

I'll report back.


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## Bribie G (16/6/15)

Just cranked out a batch for our "yoghurt club" and did a test jar half and half milk with coconut cream. Will report.
The "wort" tastes delicious B)


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## Bribie G (17/6/15)

OK, mixed results.

It was obvious after fermentation that the yog had settled into two distinct layers.
The top layer is smooth, thick and rich and spoons almost like mascarpone cheese with a pleasant yogurt acidity, incredible aftertaste of coconut, cream and lovely comforting fatty mouthfeel. To die for.
However the lower layer is fairly sloppy, with curds and whey and tastes much more mild than the upper layer.

By contrast the all milk yogurt always comes out fairly solid all the way to the bottom of the jar. What seems to have happened is that the coconut creams and milk fats have migrated to the upper half of the jar and set to a rich thick yogurt. This layer is floating on a bed of curds and whey. However I'll definitely make it again, using the top half as a luxury dessert or curry accompaniment and drain off the bottom layer as a morning drink, or mix it with kefir.

yum

Recommend.


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## TimT (17/6/15)

Well curds and whey is the normal result anyway, though it's less noticeable in most yoghurts because, well, most yoghurt customers find whey icky., and the whey will yoghurt will often produce less whey (because there's no enzyme - rennin - to really help the fat and the non-fat present). Remember the permeate "scandal" of a few years ago? As someone on my blog commented at the time, "It's just wrong, taking something out of milk and putting it in again!"

Maybe the coconut milk exacerbated this result somehow - more acid? Natural curdling enzymes present in the coconut?

PS I just put some raw milk through some culturing to get yoghurt and in one jar the separation of curds and whey is *very* noticeable indeed - it's about one fifth curds floating at the top, and 4/5ths whey.


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## hoppy2B (17/6/15)

I like the sound of Bribie's top layer. Could be a Greek style yoghurt resulting from the addition of coconut milk is the only logical direction to go with it. 

I've had the vanilla Jalna and love it. That uses fruit juice juice for the sweetness. I'm definitely going to go out and get some of the Greek style coconut Jalna pictured above to try.


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## Danwood (17/6/15)

Sounds like it'll get me into some good books then !

Might do a big batch and use it in a no-cook banana cheese cake this weekend.

Hoppy-Jalna was on special for $5 at Coles


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## hoppy2B (17/6/15)

Actually, here is a thought. You can get coconut oil in the supermarket. It is probably better described as coconut butter because it is quite solid and comes in a jar. Just add that straight to milk and make your yoghurt from that!


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## Bribie G (17/6/15)

Bloody expensive though. Coconut milk and cream are only about 80c a tin.
For culture, rather than use supermarket yoghurts that gave me wildly inconsistent fermentations, I get absolutely reliable results and lovely creamy not too acidic yoghurt using cultures from Country Brewer. Bloody lovely, and I've converted everyone who has tasted them to home made yoghurt.

I use the Probiotic and the Strong and Creamy cultures. The website doesn't make it clear but you can order bigger packs that work out far cheaper per batch.


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## hoppy2B (17/6/15)

You would probably only need to add a teaspoon of the coco butter Bribie.


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## Dave70 (18/6/15)

Danwood said:


> Has anyone added coconut milk when making yoghurt ?
> 
> I'm going to try a batch for the wife, who's been doing backflips over this Jalna stuff (I have to admit, it is pretty bloody good).
> 
> ...


Thought about using coconut in a batch, though have yet to get around to it. My method however would be to add that dried shredded stuff to the milk and process it until I got the taste and consistency right. 
Since coconut milk is basically flavored saturated fat, water and no casein, I suspected I would likely just split. Much like Bribies results would indicate. 
The plan was to then experiment making 'frogurt' for a nice summer treat. Unfortunately now its winter. Suppose it would go alright on a curry..


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## hoppy2B (18/6/15)

Dave70 said:


> Thought about using coconut in a batch, though have yet to get around to it. My method however would be to add that dried shredded stuff to the milk and process it until I got the taste and consistency right.
> Since coconut milk is basically flavored saturated fat, water and no casein, I suspected I would likely just split. Much like Bribies results would indicate.
> The plan was to then experiment making 'frogurt' for a nice summer treat. Unfortunately now its winter. Suppose it would go alright on a curry..


You'll be able to market it as: Dave's healthy yoghurt - now with fibre. You mean to put it through a blender?

That is actually a pretty good idea. For people who grow their own fruit it could be another way of preserving it. For example: if a person had excess pears, they could put them through a blender, mix them with milk, turn it into yoghurt and put it in the freezer.

Yoghurt that has a lot of cream or coconut fat in it would benefit from being mixed if it has separated out. You can either strain the whey portion away and then mix the solids or you can mix the whole lot without straining. I think that is what they do commercially in some instances anyway.

A good recipe might include:

-milk;
-cream;
-coconut cream;
-coconut fibre;
-coconut butter; and
-fruit juice for extra sweetness.


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## Dave70 (18/6/15)

hoppy2B said:


> You'll be able to market it as: Dave's healthy yoghurt - now with fibre. You mean to put it through a blender?


Oh yeah, you gotta blend it. Bit stringy otherwise I'd say. Even baking it a little before hand would lend a nice nutty / sweetness I reckon. Some crushed, toasted almonds (which I have actually done) is great also. 
Stirred through a bowl of granola and we're talking some no fuss pooping I can tell you.


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## Danwood (19/6/15)

So, I made a 2L batch yesterday.

For the coconuttiness, I decided on this Ayam dehydrated C. milk, which worked very well.
This avoided the left over water Bribie encountered after fermentation.

When I do the next lot, I'll use two sachets (1 per litre of milk). The flavour is definitely there, but it's subtle.

Incidentally, the Ayam range has a much higher % of actual coconut (and no stabilisers/emulsifiers) so even the liquid products shouldn't leave as much liquid in the finished yoghurt.

I'm straining some to use in a few cheese cakes for the wife. Banana/toffee and passion fruit varieties.
The was a couple of bottles of Kaiju! waiting in the fridge yesterday, so she deserves it.

I should say that the word 'yoghurt' should be read as 'yog-hurt' and not 'yo-gurt' during this (and subsequent posts written by me). I am British and therefore speak correctly. Do what you like in your own time...


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## Dave70 (19/6/15)

I thought the Brits pronounced it as a 'short' vowel, as in 'jog'or 'got'. 
At least thats how Nigella taught me.
Mmm..Nigella. And y_o_-_gert.._


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## Bribie G (19/6/15)

There's _controversy_ about how to say _yoghurt_, _broccoli_ - _drawing_ on previous experience.

Aus: contro VERsy - yoh gert - broccol eye - droring

Pom: con trOversy -yog ut - brocco lee - draw wing

As a pom myself it's always interesting to try and get a native born Aussie to say "drawing" properly as in drawing pin. They just can't hear that they are putting an extra "r" in the word instead of the "w".

Personally ah divvent worry aboot aal that, cos ah taak reet proper, just gan doon wor hoose an ask wor Mam and wor marras they'll lorn ye. If ye want te learn more just ask wuh.


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## Bribie G (19/6/15)

On topic, that Ayam dried coconut milk is fantastic, instant bliss. When I did my curry course in Brisbane the chef always used it and referred to the Thai tinned coconut cream as "gutless". The Nestle one is just as good but it comes in kilo packs and is a bit hard to track down but works out less per weight.


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## manticle (19/6/15)

I say yo gert, broccolee and draw ing.
Weird hybrid me.


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## Danwood (19/6/15)

Yoghurt cheese cake !

Homemade yoghurt gets you laid...who knew ?


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