# Aaba 2004 Entries



## Doc (23/10/04)

Qualified for the Nationals ?
You can get all the details for the AABA Nationals from this page here

Thanks to Peter Wadey for getting a clarification on the entry fee (it *is $3*). _$4 is quoted on the registration form_

Remember entries are due in Canberra *by 5pm on Wednesday, 3 November, 2004*.

Beers,
Doc


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## Ray_Mills (23/10/04)

Hi all
Going to Canberra next Saturday for a drive in the new company car. Will be dropping off my winning (gee did I say that) entries. If any one wants their beers deliverd let me know and you can drop down to Bulli and try my new Rye imperial pale ale on tap. 
Cheers
Ray


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## Barry cranston (23/10/04)

Good Day Ray
I'm still thinking about what to do with the rye malt you gave me. Any ideas about ales to brew with rye and WLP001 which is the yeast in the fermenters at present?
Congratulations on the job and the car. I hope you will still have time time for brewing, the IBU's and the fairs (don't let work get in the way of your hobby).
Thanks for the offer. I'm OK, a nice man sent my entries down to Canberra on a pallet.
All the best, Barry.


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## Ray_Mills (23/10/04)

Hi Barry
Here is the current Rye beer I now have on tap. It has a kick to it but very, very nice. It has an IBU of 76 but it is not overpowering, just a great beer. WLP 001 will work fine.

Imperial Rye IPA # 1 2004

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

07-1 India Pale Ale, Imperial IPA

Min OG: 1.075 Max OG: 1.090
Min IBU: 60 Max IBU: 100
Min Clr: 8 Max Clr: 15 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 19.00 Wort Size (L): 19.00
Total Grain (kg): 7.47
Anticipated OG: 1.077 Plato: 18.67
Anticipated SRM: 14.1
Anticipated IBU: 76.6
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
66.9 5.00 kg. B & B Traditional Ale Malt Australia 1.038 3
18.7 1.40 kg. Rye Malt America 1.030 4
7.6 0.57 kg. Weyermann Caramunich II Germany 1.035 63
3.3 0.25 kg. Cara-Pils Dextrine Malt 1.033 2
3.3 0.25 kg. Hoepfner Wheat Malt Dark Germany 1.039 8

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
80.00 g. Progress Pellet 5.70 59.9 90 min.
30.00 g. Hallertauer Tradition Pellet 3.00 10.6 First WH
20.00 g. Hallertauer Tradition Pellet 3.00 5.7 30 min.
20.00 g. Hallertauer Tradition Pellet 3.00 0.3 1 min.


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP007 Dry English Ale


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## Jovial_Monk (23/10/04)

Barry,

Rye can liven up any beer!

Ales, use flaked/puffed rye rather than rye malt

Lagers, guess rheinheidsgebot means use rye malt, though flaked rye gives more flavor.

Rye is EASILY overdone



Jovial Monk


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## Snow (25/10/04)

Doc said:


> Qualified for the Nationals ?
> You can get all the details for the AABA Nationals from this page here
> 
> Thanks to Peter Wadey for getting a clarification on the entry fee (it *is $3*). _$4 is quoted on the registration form_
> ...


 Mailed my 3 entries off yesterday. Fingers crossed!

- Snow.


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## Snow (29/10/04)

Well I got a call from the post office yesterday. They had a box of mine addressed to the AABA National Championships which didn't get sent because it was wet...and rattled  . The entries were fully bubble wrapped, packed with newspaper and divided by cardboard wine dividers. I don't know how I could have packed them more securely. I guess some wanker at the post office took one look at the "fragile" notice and threw it into the corner as hard as he could :angry: 

I just hope it wasn't my bavarian hefeweizen, because that was my last bottle....

- Snow


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## Doc (29/10/04)

Geez they are bastards like that. Sorry to hear that Snow.

The number of times I've sent stuff with fragile stickers on only to see them get tossed in a big bag straight away before I even leave the counter (you can almost hear their brain tick over "Lets see how fragile it is"). And I'm thinking if it survived that it should make the trip.

I posted my entry on Tuesday (only one entry as I didn't have any Belgian Trippel left ) and I posted it in a post tube. The tube had fragile stickers on from a previous posting experience and they guy behind the counter said what is in it for it to be fragile. I said nothing the stickers are from a previous post.
I then didn't have to fill out any crap AND he gently placed it in the post bag.
GO Figure.

Beers,
Doc


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## AndrewQLD (29/10/04)

geez Snow that sucks, hope you can save the day and still enter.

I have given up on entering comps with glass bottles, too much risk and the postage is high. I now use the Brown PET bottles for comps and feel alot more confident they will get there in one piece.

Andrew


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## jgriffin (29/10/04)

Snow said:


> Well I got a call from the post office yesterday. They had a box of mine addressed to the AABA National Championships which didn't get sent because it was wet...and rattled  . The entries were fully bubble wrapped, packed with newspaper and divided by cardboard wine dividers. I don't know how I could have packed them more securely. I guess some wanker at the post office took one look at the "fragile" notice and threw it into the corner as hard as he could :angry:
> 
> I just hope it wasn't my bavarian hefeweizen, because that was my last bottle....
> 
> - Snow


 I've still got a bottle of that APA (somewhere... now i think about it i don't recall seeing it after moving...)


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## pint of lager (29/10/04)

That sucks Snow.

Took a parcel to the Post Office a while ago with "Fragile" written all over it, and the postal clerk says, "We don't do fragile any more."


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## bonk (29/10/04)

h34r: 

that sucks snow,

i tried to send mine today, but i got the big fat 'you can't send beer in the mail', so what about those wine packs etc. like nobody sent bloody sparkling white via air mail. :angry: 

so one quick trip and one air bag later, beer will hopefully arrive all safe and sound. i never knew you could fit that much bubble wrap in an air bag


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## Doc (29/10/04)

I've never had a problem sending beer within Oz.

Sending beer to NZ is a bit more difficult since you now have to fill out a form stating what it contains and what is is worth etc. including your full details (and they sight some ID).
For international parcels I only send PET bottles and on the label I put Product Samples. Haven't had a problem yet  

Doc


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## big d (29/10/04)

sorry to hear the news snow.
if i enter any comps and pet bottles are allowable i will only post pet bottles.weight saving plus a bit more durable.

cheers
big d


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## johnno (29/10/04)

Bad luck Snow. I'm sure the person that did that will have bad beer karma for a long time to come. 
Having worked for Oz post in the early-mid 80's I know only too well how some things are treated.
My experience with couriers is bad as well.


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## Peter Wadey (31/10/04)

Snow,
Sorry to hear your bad news.

All
I entrusted mine to one of those fancy red wine capsules they flog at the PO.
The bottle goes in VERY snuggly. Hope it works.

Hints:
Be careful to get ALL the lugs in as you go. Reversal is damn near impossible.

As there is the possibility of the bottle sliding up or down within the capsule and the lid getting caught and buggering the seal, I put a bit of dunny roll shaft up the neck over the lid to protect it.

On the 'gentle touch' of some Posties:
No hope in our area. The local parcel contractor got caught out and a little embarrassed for throwing a box about 20 feet from down the drive up on the front porch. Little did he knwo it contained a bunch of ring spanners. Made a hell of a racket. Fragile stuff.....not a hope in hell.

Doc,
Thanks. Did that not so much to skimp out of the extra dollar, but to raise a flag and get the details updated before they got more enquires that would take time to respond too. Hence me emailing all the NSW Comp entrants I had addresses for. I think they could charge twice the price and not have any complaints.

Regards,
Peter


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## Trough Lolly (12/11/04)

Just a quick note wishing all entrants in the 2004 AABC the best of luck tomorrow  

I'll be stewarding tomorrow, so it should be a great day - and I'm looking forward to having a sip of your hard work (after the judges have had a glass, of course  )

Cheers and good beers! :chug: 
TL


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## bonk (12/11/04)

are you open to bribes  


if so how much 

i just hope mine made it without exploding etc etc,

and good luck to everyone and good beer to all


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## Wreck (13/11/04)

Forgot to send my entry in :angry: Guess I'll have to drink it instead...


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## Ray_Mills (13/11/04)

Wreck

How many beers did you forget and what where they

Ray


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## Wreck (13/11/04)

It was the oatmeal stout that came 3rd in NSW. Wasn't expecting a result at the Australian, so I'm not too concerned. Only entered NSW in the first place for some feedback.

Just have to get a few more beers up next year.


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## GMK (14/11/04)

Congrats goto Ray Mills

Tied with Christophe for Champion Brewer...

ACT brews blitz championships

The ACT has blitzed the field in the Australian Amateur Brewing 
Championships.

Beating stiff competition from around the country, local brewers took 
out the top five places for the best beers.

Canberra brewer Christophe Zierholz tied with Ray Mills from New 
South Wales for the Champion Brewer title.

here is the linkfor the results...
http://www.canberrabrewers.org/images/stor...04/category.doc


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## Gulf Brewery (14/11/04)

GMK

Nice results, the only problem is that they are for the ACT brewing comp. Wanna try again?

Pedro


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## bonk (14/11/04)

does anyone have the list of results? just trying to find out how good/bad i went. thats if it made it without breaking


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## GMK (14/11/04)

Pedro said:


> GMK
> 
> Nice results, the only problem is that they are for the ACT brewing comp. Wanna try again?
> 
> Pedro


 Yeah Pedro - realised taht after i posted that they were only for the Canberra Brewers.

The part about Ray was in an e-mail i received.
Have not found the link yet to all the results....yet


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## Doc (14/11/04)

Congratulations Ray. Well done.

As for the results the AABA site still doesn't have the details for the awards dinner last night, so I guess they will post the results after they updated that page <_< 

Doc


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## Trough Lolly (15/11/04)

Wow, what a fun Saturday that was!  

Stewarding is much better than judging, IMHO! The judges sit down and quietly go through a single flight of beers - the stewards serve up ALL the beers for all the flights and styles and collect the judging sheets after each beer. We check the sheets to make sure the judges have added up correctly (they did!) and are within 7 points of each other's score otherwise we return the sheets to resolve the contention, or call in the chief judge and steward to have a taste and make a call. That is very rare at this level...

Then, if we see that they have judged a beer highly (like they did with Ray Mills' outstanding beers - I really loved your German Pilsner, can I swap you one of my kids for the recipe  :lol: ), we put the bottle to one side as a "Stewards Sampler"!

We had over 200 beers and of that, about 180 bottles of excellent beer to finish off! 

Believe it or not, we had a couple of infections - not sure who's beer they were (we just see the bottles with a sticker and a four digit code on it), so if you had an entry that was scored low, don't worry - it might have been an infected bottle rather than a bad beer brewed...

Who says competitions are boring  :chug: :chug: 

Cheers,
TL (in the beer brewing premiership winning state!)  B) :chug:


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## Jase (15/11/04)

Congratulations Ray. Well Done.

Cheers,
Jase


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## Asher (15/11/04)

Good stuf Ray...
I look forward to getting my hands on the pills recipe too

Anyone else heard anything? 

Asher for now


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## Trough Lolly (15/11/04)

All,
The following info is a bit of a scoop before the official results are published;



> For those of you who don't know top beer was Mike Day with an IPA.
> Champion Brewer went jointly to Christoph and NSW brewer Ray Mills
> who scored 8 points each using the 3 for a first, 2 for a second
> and 1 for a third place.
> ...


Cheers,
TL


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## nonicman (15/11/04)

Congrats Ray, excellent result. 



> TL (in the beer brewing premiership winning state!)



ACT is not a state, it's a territory. :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Doc (15/11/04)

Trough Lolly said:


> All,
> The following info is a bit of a scoop before the official results are published;
> 
> 
> ...


 Any idea of when the results WILL be posted ?
Any other inside info for AHB members who entered ?

Doc


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## Ray_Mills (15/11/04)

Hi
Well I was supprised when I got a phone call from Kurtz on Sunday arvo. Never thought I would get this far. (then again I did it in 2002).

Thanks guys and at this stage i have know idea what beers won. The Canberra brewers print a booklet later with the three winning recipes in each Catagory. get your hands on it when its out.

Will post the recipes later if you like.

Cheers
Ray


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## Shed (15/11/04)

> Will post the recipes later if you like.



That would be great Ray, the more award winning beers in the recipe section the better.

Congratulations,
Andy


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## Doc (16/11/04)

The results are now online here

Doc


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## Sean (16/11/04)

According to which, we already seem to have seceeded to S.A:


> Sean Kelleher	SA	English Mild	103.5	Bronze


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## jgriffin (16/11/04)

Stephen Wharton	QLD	American Pale Ale	116	Silver

Congrats Steve!


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## Wreck (16/11/04)

Congrats guys.


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## nonicman (16/11/04)

Congrats to all, seems a good showing by the forum members.


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## Asher (17/11/04)

Look forward to seeing the full list. Only to see if my other two beers were accepted.(The ones that "wouldn't" have placed in the SA if judged together)....
But I'm happy B) 
2nd for my Marzen....
5th for the GT Rice Lager..... It was ~ 6 months old by the time of judging. A bit past it. But there's always next year. I'm brewing another batch of it this weekend actually.... one day it will be famous I tell you!!  

If AHB was a state, I think we all won.... Congrats All

Asher for now


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## AndrewQLD (17/11/04)

Well done Ray, Steve and Asher, It looks like a pretty tuff comp so congrats to everyone who made the medals.
.Andrew


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## johnno (17/11/04)

Yep.. Congrats to all the AHB'ers who made it that far.

cheers


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## Snow (17/11/04)

Yes, congrats to all, especially Ray, Doc, Asher and Andrew. Some good results! Ray, I can't wait to see your recipes in the booklet. 

The collective Brissie Brewers' APA would have done a lot better if it had been judged soon after bottling, 4 months ago. The hop aroma has dulled considerably which would have cost it many points and most likely a place. Still, Silver is pretty cool!  

- Snow


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## Trough Lolly (17/11/04)

Asher! So it was you who made the Green Tea / Rice Lager... B) 

That was a beaut drop! All the stewards loved it and we rushed around like wild chooks sharing a drop of it with the judges who had already finished their flights. We expected to taste an astringent, grapey drop but you blew us and our palates away with a delightful beer!

How about putting out the recipe for that one?  

It looked very pale and a brilliant white head when properly poured by the "expert" stewards   :lol: 

The taste was terrific and the other judges rated it very favourably!

Well done!
TL


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## Snow (17/11/04)

TL,

Asher's recipe is in this topic.

Cheers - Snow


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## Asher (17/11/04)

Yep...
It came to me in a dream... Its a bit of a work in progress (up to version 4) but already an absolute favorite of mine & everyone asks me to brew kegs of it for parties. The caffeine makes it a 'happy' beer.... and its crispness is unmatched IMHO. I wanted to come up with something original that would turn heads.

I recon, one day a commercial/micro will pick this beer up... It's the perfect stepping stone to get young Alco-pop drinkers on to beer yet still offers something original to the more experienced palate. Similar to the Belgian White craze of late....

Does anyone know if you can patent a beer :unsure: 

Asher for now


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## Trough Lolly (17/11/04)

Snow said:


> TL,
> 
> Asher's recipe is in this topic.
> 
> Cheers - Snow


 Thanks for that Snow,
Several club members who judged on the day commented very favourably about that GT and Rice Lager...I'll pass on the recipe to them.

I didn't know there was caffeine in it :blink: but I can see how it can get there with the green tea!

Cheers,
TL


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## nonicman (17/11/04)

Asher


> Does anyone know if you can patent a beer



Usual disclaimers (please consult a legal professional for correct advice.), please don't sue me.

Spoke to the resident legal eagle (remind me never to get a divorce  ), a patent is for a process, so probably not.

However if the recipe is recorded (I'm sure it is) you do have some intellectual property rights and possibly copyright (as a literary work), you should consult a professional, I hope that helps.


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## Jovial_Monk (17/11/04)

Umm I am no leagle eagle myself. . .but MacLays of Alloa Patented an Oatmalt Stout 100 years ago, I think



Jovial Monk


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## Doc (17/11/04)

Asher said:


> Does anyone know if you can patent a beer :unsure:


 I don't think you can patent a beer.
But you can patent a name eg. Steam Beer
So get a patent sorted for GT Rice Lager then when we brew it we will have to call it Ashers Common Rice Lager  

Doc


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## bonk (17/11/04)

snow is that your beer that placed ahead of mine???

if so, ya bastard  

well done, to all. i can't belive i placed so well with the beer, i was expecting the result to say, kill judge, justin boencke 

again, well done to all
:chug:


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## big d (17/11/04)

top result guys
ive a question that maybe we can start another thread on regarding entering comps.to place in the nationals you have to score in a state comp during the year i think.so do we store a few bottles of the winning/placing beer away till the nationals knowing it may not be the same or do we brew another same as drop to replace it with for entry.?
im hoping to enter some next year but these questions and some more raise there head time and time again.
like i said earlier maybe we should start a thread on comp dos and donts to help us out along the way.


cheers
big d


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## AndrewQLD (18/11/04)

Hi Bigd,

I start brewing for a comp 3 months ahead, I have found that unless you are making a really big beer (IPA, Barley wine, ect) you tend to lose alot of the hop flavours and aromas and the beer tends to lose body as well if it is more than three months old. Just my opinion.

Oh and I tend to brew my lagers first and ales last.

Regards
Andrew


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## Darren (18/11/04)

Howdy,
Well done Ray with the Pils. Will have to give the recipe a try.

Big D,
As far as i know, if you qualified at the state level you can then enter any beer (freshly brewed or aged) into that same class at the Nationals. 
I entered my last bottle of an American barleywine in the SA state show. I didn't have any left for the National comp so i entered and Strong english brown ale as a Barleywine in the nationals.
cheers
Darren


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (18/11/04)

Well done to all AHBers who won, placed or even entered.
I'll raise my glass to you all on the weekend. :chug: 
C&B
TDA


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## Snow (18/11/04)

bonk said:


> snow is that your beer that placed ahead of mine???
> 
> if so, ya bastard
> 
> ...


 Yeah...sorry mate - you must have lost those 5 points in transit because your beer had further to travel  

Well done on getting a medal for your Territory! The trick now is to better that effort next year - and it ain't easy!

- Snow


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## Snow (18/11/04)

Darren said:


> Howdy,
> Well done Ray with the Pils. Will have to give the recipe a try.
> 
> Big D,
> ...


 Is that really true??? That doesn't sound fair at all! That means that if you have a fault pointed out by the judges in the state comp, then you can fix it in the subsequent batch for the Nationals! Cheating I say!

Also, some state comps are held earlier in the year, so you get plenty of time to re-brew that APA or further mellow your RIS, whereas other comps, eg QLD, are held a month before the Nationals, so those qualifying in that comp are unfairly disadvantaged by its timing.

It seems to me that the system needs to be more standardised, where all the State comps are held close to the Nationals, and you are only allowed to enter a qualifying beer from the same batch in the same category. In addition, all the categories should be the same for the state and national comps, and not clumped together in pseudo-categories, as they are in the Qld comp.

- Snow


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## big d (18/11/04)

thanks for the advice guys.sounds like there is a few curly probs going to the nationals.hopefully will find out more during the new year.

cheers
big d


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## pint of lager (18/11/04)

Certainly some good points there Snow.

So long as we all know and understand before hand, what the groundules are.

As to being able to enter another beer, consider pale ales, low alcohol beers and others. These are usually at their peak when fresh. If there is more than a few weeks between nationals and state, they may be past it.

If you enter a different beer in the nationals, you always run the risk of it not being as good, or being better than your original entry. Are you judging that specific beer, the brewer's ability to nail the guidelines or the brewer's ability to brew a good beer.

Well done to all the entrants, judges, organisers, stewards and supporters.


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## Doc (18/11/04)

I qualified for the National Comp with two beers.
I only entered one however as I had unknowingly opened the last bottle of the other qualifying beer.
It didn't seem right to brew it again especially just to enter, or substitute a similar brew.
The downside is the beer was fantastic and would have done well (it got 1st in the NSW comp).

Beers,
Doc


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## johnno (18/11/04)

Well i entered a local club brew comp down here in September. It was a Pale ale comp and I entered and APA. It came out in the top 10 which I was pretty pleased with.
I then entered exactly the same beer in the State comp in the APA category. Two of the three judges comments were that it was entered in the wrong category :blink: . Should have been entered in the English bitter category apparently.
I used only American hops and yeast. I suppose if there is a lot of good beers the judges may find it hard and I reckon a lot may come down to the day as well.
Which side they get out of bed etc.
Either way I think its a great thing to enter your beers and get the feedback.

cheers


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## Darren (18/11/04)

Hey Snow,
I see your point. The problem is that it is incredibly diffficult to monitor if the same beer has been entered in both comps. Probably best to let people enter substitutes then you know no-one is cheating.
The crunch comes when YOU have to decide which beer is better, the original or the substitute.
The original has already won a prize. Will the substitute be better? In my experience replicating a beer let alone improving on a judges comments is extremely difficult.
darren


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## AndrewQLD (18/11/04)

well you reckon you guys have it hard :blink: , try entering the qld comp (as some of you have), If your beer is judged to be exceptional it seems they warm it up to room temp to bring out any faults or off flavours and then adjust your score based on the faults found in the warm beer. 
It's a pity they didn't do it to all entries, and not just the really good ones  .

I think with the Nationals, qualifying in the state comps gives you the right to enter a catagoriy and style, not necessary to enter the same beer, after all they do allow each brewer to enter 2 beers to each cat/style they have qualified for.

Andrew


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## Darren (18/11/04)

AndrewQLD said:


> well you reckon you guys have it hard :blink: , try entering the qld comp (as some of you have), If your beer is judged to be exceptional it seems they warm it up to room temp to bring out any faults or off flavours and then adjust your score based on the faults found in the warm beer.
> It's a pity they didn't do it to all entries, and not just the really good ones  .
> 
> I think with the Nationals, qualifying in the state comps gives you the right to enter a catagoriy and style, not necessary to enter the same beer, after all they do allow each brewer to enter 2 beers to each cat/style they have qualified for.
> ...


 Andrew,
Here in SA the beers are warmed to room temp if they are good.
All good comps will warm the beer to detect flaws in the better examples.
Sometimes it is the only way to seperate the top 3 or so beers.
On that subject, anyone tried warm VB?


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## big d (18/11/04)

its got me beat as to why you would bother warming up a beer.all beer no matter how good tastes bad warmed up.who drinks warm beer except judges. <_< 
certainly not the majority of drinkers.
i reckon they should accept it for what its worth.

cheers
big d
who will certainly not become a beer judge if it means drinking warm beer.


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## AndrewQLD (18/11/04)

Hi Darren,

Unfortunatley that wasn't the case in the Qld comp, the warming was done even if there was only one outstanding beer.

To be honest I don't think warming a beer for judging should be allowed. Beers are drunk cold and style guides even specify what temp they should be served at Ie 6c or 12c ect. You don't eat a meat pie at fridge temp just to see if it will taste any worse :huh: .

When you drink a beer you always chill it because beer was made to be drunk that way. As you said have you ever tried a VB warm, or for that matter any beer, they taste like [email protected], because there meant to be drunk cold.

Pretty soon us brewers will have to design our beers to be drunk warm so we can have a chance in the comps. But that makes me wonder, won't the then taste [email protected] if there drunk cold? :blink:


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## Darren (18/11/04)

Darren said:


> AndrewQLD said:
> 
> 
> > well you reckon you guys have it hard :blink: , try entering the qld comp (as some of you have), If your beer is judged to be exceptional it seems they warm it up to room temp to bring out any faults or off flavours and then adjust your score based on the faults found in the warm beer.
> ...


 Iam probably alone in this but I think if a beer cannot be drunk warm it is not a good beer.
The cold just hides many flaws in a beer.
Having said that I do love a cold lager
Darren


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## Darren (18/11/04)

johnno said:


> a lot may come down to the day as well.
> Which side they get out of bed etc.


 Also the beer that came before yours will impact on the judges impression


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## AndrewQLD (18/11/04)

Darren said


> Having said that I do love a cold lager



Thats because they taste like crap warm  :lol: 

Andrew


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## Darren (18/11/04)

AndrewQLD said:


> Darren said
> 
> 
> > Having said that I do love a cold lager
> ...


 Should be drinkable warm or it is crap


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## big d (18/11/04)

if it wasnt for my a/c room temp at the moment would be about 32 deg and then add the 95 + humidity.yep im sure gonna love a room temp beer.   NOT

cheers in cold beers
big d


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## Darren (18/11/04)

Hey again,
The warming of the beer by judges is to SMELL the fermentation by-products.
All tasting would be done when the beer was cold.
Darren


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## jayse (18/11/04)

I think GLS explained all this warming up very well, i'll admit not seeing it for what it is when i first heard of it, but now given some more finer detials i can't see any problem with it at all.
If its a exeptional beer to start with on warming it will possibly only lose at most .5 of a point if any points at all, if the beers way down the list were warmed up of course they could lose a bit because even cold they weren't that great and certainly weren't contenders for a medal.

I don't see any unfairness in doing this at all. Like he said if any beers did actually lose any points at all, which it seems most didn't, 1 point was proberly the most. . 
Its not like they put all the beers in the boot of a car and drove around townsville for 2 days before judging them just to check they were stable.

Anyway it may sound wierd to some this techniqie but i don't think its a big 'you can't do that' issue. 

If anyone wants to read more on this read the craftbrewer digest, i think you'll find it is not a nasty nasty thing to do but actually not such a silly idea at all.

Really there is nothing to stop a judge cupping his hands around a glass to warm up the beer, we all do that sometimes, its why beers are sometimes served in certain types of glasses so you can either hold the stem to keep it cold or cup your hands around it to warm it up.

Anyway i'll have to agree with what darren has said here, read GLS's replies on the digest and i think the majority of people will understand there is nothing so bad about doing this.

Its to easy to just hear 'they warm the beer' and then start thinking thats just not right, i think you need to read the facts involved and understand it better.

Cheers Jayse--rambling again


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## AndrewQLD (18/11/04)

Yeah I think Jayse is right, read the facts and make your own decisions.

I was one of the instigators of the discussions that went on at the craftbrewer discussion board in regards to the judging methods, so I think I do know most of the facts. But i still disagree with the method.

But hey thats only my opinion, and whose to say I am anymore knowlegable than anyone else.

I think I'll go have a nice COLD pils  

Andrew


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## jayse (18/11/04)

Hi andrew,
I agree you do have all the facts there so i would not even try to discredit why you think its not a good idea.
You have all the facts and have decided that it is still not right, no one can have a go at you for that.
keep up the great brewing.

Jayse


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## Darren (18/11/04)

Andrew,
Worthwhile experiment is to allow a small amount of your beer to warm and compare the aromas with a cold one.
Another way to do it it to smell what is remaining in your glass after you have finished it. The malts and hops should smell fresh and clean


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## AndrewQLD (18/11/04)

While I don't agree with the warming of judging samples, if the comp organisers wish to do it then that is how it is done.

My original post was more aimed at the fact that the beers were tatsed warm in the qld comp not just sniffed.

I agree with you about aromatics from the malt and hops ( and non desirables) are more easily detected after warming and that is fine. 
But it is comments like this one below from a thread at the craftbrewer site that really makes me wonder if this judging method is any good.


quote<<<How do you know that you aren't creating the flaw by your mistreatment ?<<<<<< 
GLS Replies
>>>Naturally one could never say "no-way". But evidence to date suggests "highly unlikely." The sample is heated imediately in front of the judging panel and sniffed/swallowed immediately. The idea is to lift tell tale smells. The simple fact that good crafted beers remain excellent, clean and easy drinking warm tell our judging panel that a good beer can survive this treatment.>>>

"heated immediately" and "sniffed swallowed" is not the judging method you described to me in your earlier thread



> The warming of the beer by judges is to SMELL the fermentation by-products.


 Darren,

But really the point is moot, we have to accept the method of judging in each comp as it is. and be gratefull if our beers stand up to the benchmark set by the judges.

I think I better not have another pils :blink: :lol: 
Andrew

PS Don't take the above little tirade as a slurr on GLS, he,s a top bloke and I am sure he would read this with great interest.


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## Darren (18/11/04)

AndrewQLD said:


> <<simple fact that good crafted beers remain excellent, clean and easy drinking warm tell our judging panel that a good beer can survive this treatment.>>>


 Andrew,
I think this is the most relevant point of the discussion.
Poorly crafted beer does not stand up well under these conditions
cheeers
darren (wish I could have a cold pils too!)


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## Peter Wadey (22/11/04)

AndrewQLD wrote:

"I think with the Nationals, qualifying in the state comps gives you
the right to enter a catagoriy and style, not necessary to enter the same beer,
after all they do allow each brewer to enter 2 beers to each cat/style they
have qualified for."

G'day Andrew & Big d
This was not clearly stated in the rules last year, so I checked it out with Christoph.
Since it sounds like you are under the same impression as I was then, I'll pipe up, if not for your's, then for big 'ds info as well.

In order to enter 2 beers, you must have qualified twice.
eg getting a 2nd with my Chocolate Stout in the NSW Comp. did not entitle me to enter any more than 1 beer in the appropriate category in the Nationals.

Where the rule comes into play is in the unlikely event that a brewer wins all 3 places in a Category in a qualifying comp. It may also happen through some misalignment of State & National Comp. categories/ styles. In that case the brewer is only allowed a max. of 2 entries into that category in the Nationals.

Hope this clears things up a bit.

Regards,
Peter
Eastwood, NSW


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## AndrewQLD (22/11/04)

Thanks for clearing that up Peter, and your right, reading the entry rules does leave the wrong impression.
Regards
Andrew


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## big d (22/11/04)

thanks for the info peter.much appreciated

cheers
big d


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## Doc (1/12/04)

Has anyone received their score sheets from the Nationals yet ?
Thought they would have been here last week or early this week. <_< 

Beers,
Doc


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## Darren (3/12/04)

Doc said:


> Has anyone received their score sheets from the Nationals yet ?
> Thought they would have been here last week or early this week. <_<
> 
> Beers,
> Doc


 Haven't seen mine Doc!
Can't wait to see if my Weizenbock was really judged as a weizen


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## Asher (3/12/04)

I think it took quite a while for 'Trash Mash Al' to get anything back from AABA last year (about a month or two). There's allot of work that goes into the recipe book that is sent to you at the same time...

Asher for now


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## Doc (3/12/04)

Asher said:


> There's allot of work that goes into the recipe book that is sent to you at the same time...


 Last year I got the judging sheets and certificates in about 1-2 weeks.
The recipe booklets showed up around June-July this year.

Hopefully we see something before Xmas.

Doc


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## Doc (22/12/04)

My Certificate and judging sheets arrived a couple of days ago.

The judging sheets made for interesting reading. Two judges said great aroma and complimentary taste from the bourbon. The third judge said he couldn't detect the bourbon at all. mmmmmmmmmmmm <_< 

Doc


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## bonk (23/12/04)

i got mine yesterday. very excitied to get the results. i knew the hop aroma was lacking and that kept the score down.

oh well, there is always next year. as for the certificate, will be showing that off to anyone i can corner


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## Darren (23/12/04)

Also received mine.
My weizenbock was judged as a weizen.
Judges comments: Bit too thick for style!  We liked it though!


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## Snow (23/12/04)

I got my judging sheets and certificate this week, too. The judges are very inconsistent. For my Octoberfest, one judge says too bitter, the other says too sweet and the third says just right. Another sheet (for my weizen) said nothing in any of the comments sections, and only had scores, not even ticking the faults section and the right at the end it says "this beer is nice", or something banal like that. What a useless comment. Why bother judging if you're not going to give useful feedback?

- Snow.


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## sosman (23/12/04)

Snow - that is disappointing.

Unfortunately some judges are very slack in their feedback and organisers are reluctant to give them "constructive criticism" because they are volunteers.

On the other hand if you don't make your feelings known to the organisers then things will never change.

I will pass on your comments to Vicbrew, they don't organise the nats but some of the guys there are involved in judging and they are responsible for the Victorian state comp.

I will also make sure the convener of Beerfest 2005 is made aware of this and I might try to organise some "guidelines" for standards of feedback.

Your comments are representative of a wider group of people.

The good news is that some judges provide excellent feedback. As for the sweet vs bitter, sometimes you can put that down to individual tastes, that is why 3 judges evaluate each beer.


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