# Danstar Belle Saison



## vonromanz

Hi everyone,

Does anybody have some feedback on this yeast? I made a saison with this on Saturday to try it out. Sofar, I have to say that in general I find Danstar easier to rehydrate compared with Safyeast. I'm starting to think that Danstar fires allot quicker than Safyeast. Will do a side by side batch this week using US-05 and BRY-97 (that's hoping that thy are both the Chico strain and BRY-97 is not the Anchor strain).

The yeast was pitched at 20:00 on Saturday, 20C and 1.058, and had a thick crausen by 08:00 the next day. Took a sample today, Tuesday at 10:00, and it was down to 1.006. My guess would be that it is going to stop at about 1.004.

The beer flavour itself is still a bit rough with some acetaldehyde, but relitively cleanish, escpecially compared to Wyeast 3724 and 3711. Still a long way from my final thoughts.

Hope to hear some thoughts from other brewers.

Cheers


----------



## rehab

Let me know what it ends up like. Keen as to use it if it gives good results. I am a bit of a n00b still so prefer to use the dry yeast and then when I have mastered that and have some fridge space I may then look at liquid so I can wash/reuse.

Also keen to try make a Saison similar to 8 wired Sauvin


----------



## toolio666

So I pitched this evening about 6pm, 2 packets, rehydrated for 20L, and now at around 10.30, I have a reasonable krausen and good airlock activity (yes I know... Don't rely on it, kittens etc). 

What temperature have people been keeping this at? 

Melbourne at the moment has been pretty solid above 30 degrees and this week only 2 days dropping below this.

Like to hear people's thoughts.

Cheers


----------



## Lurks

Also interested in this yeast.

That said, there's a big difference between the belgian and french saison strains (wyeast). So which one is this? Eg, is it a lazy bastard that wants 30+? That doesn't sound like they bill it, so is it the super pacman french one with the boring ester profile?


----------



## keifer33

There is a bit of talk of the yeast and people trying it in this topic - http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/68478-belle-saison-dry-yeast/?hl=%2Bdanstar+%2Bsaison

Planning on bashing out a batch soon before the summer weather vanishes.


----------



## toolio666

Ok... 

Been pretty warm in the garage and it looks like overnight it dropped to about 26 and has been up near 34 during the day. 

So now from 1050 to 1.016 in about 25 hours. FG is expected to be 1.011.

Any thoughts on how quick this has been? Too hot? 
If I'm going to use finings do I use these now or wait a bit? I'm going to try and fit fermenter into my spare fridge once finished to clear it a bit more and then bottle. 

Any help or thoughts welcome!


----------



## toolio666

Well 48 hours now and down to 1.010. Will give it another day or 2, and finings and throw it in the fridge. Bottling this weekend. 

Definitely will use this yeast again for the temps it can withstand.

Need a "Saison expert" to give me some feedback though since I'm uncertain as to how it compares... Will let you all know when ready for a taste...


----------



## Beersuit

It seems like a fast mover this one. Pitched 1 packet Saturday arvo at 1.048 it's been sitting on 24 in the shed and its down to 1.008 as of last night and is starting to drop out. 
Nice subtle spiceness to it. 
My taste buds and nose are a little shot as I picked up the man flu on Sunday. So I'll report back when I get over it later in the week. Looks promising though.


----------



## Lecterfan

Toolio - I'd be wary of a proper saison yeast that is 'done' at 1.010. I know your OP says 1.050 with expected FG of 1.011, but (depending on mash etc) I would think that (tentatively) 1.008 would be closer to an FG for a saison...although of course this IS a new product so these early posts and anecdotes are really appreciated by all us saison lovers.

Also Chinamat - I disagree about the 'boring profile' of wy3711, especially after it's second re-pitch. If you push the whole farmhouse ale thing I tend to get about 5 batches from consecutive repitches from the yeast cake(s) from wy3711, and yes, brew 1 is pretty clean (compared to 3724), but after that I prefer both the flavour and aroma profile and (obviously) the sheer utility of 3711. My 4th re-pitch into a single malt grist got 109 points in vicbrew last year and was chock full of interesting yeasty goodness (one of my few examples I cling to like a tiger to a life raft).

Cheers :icon_cheers:


----------



## Lurks

Lecterfan, that's interesting to know.

It's not like I think it's terrible or anything but I tasted a friend's saison, almost the same recipe as mine, but his was with 3724 and his was far more interesting.

I'm kind of surprised that pitching a large volume of yeast cake makes it more interesting. I would have thought underpitching would have resulted in more yeast character, rather than the other way around. Not that I'm doubting you or anything.

I tend not to re-pitch yeast cakes as such and do my propagation in step-up starters, saving the last starter to be washed and to go into a jar. Just because I'm monkeying with yeast at the time it seems more convenient. I actually only have a fairly small amount of WY3711 now (image), I was just going to pitch it all and move to 3724 for the next one. Based on what you're saying, maybe I should step it up to a monster starter and pitch it...


----------



## Lecterfan

Sorry - no, I'm not re-using the whole cake, I am taking a scoop (about half cup of slurry) and pitching. Then when that beer is done I take half a cup slurry etc etc.

The very act of re-pitching over and over from _subsequent generations_ does seem to change the character slightly - I don't wash it and I don't need (therefore don't make) starters. This is possibly not best practice in the interest of consistency, but it fits the spirit of the farmhouse ale nicely.

So nothing to do with under/over pitching. I hope I've clarified that, sorry. :beerbang:


----------



## doon

the amount of yeast in that jar does not look anywhere near enough, i would make a 2 liter starter. I always do regardless. I run 3711 at temps up to 38 and get awesome flavours out of it. Made one for xmas at around those temps and relos lapped it up


----------



## Lurks

Lecterfan, ah fair enough! I'd do the same thing but I like the freedom of skipping a style, there's quite a few jars of various yeasts in the back of the fridge snoozing away. I don't really know anything about the generation aspect of yeast propagation. I thought it was generally a bad thing but not in this case it seems!

Doon, agree. I generally always make starters. Up to 38C, mmm maybe that's it. Didn't do it warm enough?


----------



## toolio666

Lecterfan said:


> Toolio - I'd be wary of a proper saison yeast that is 'done' at 1.010. I know your OP says 1.050 with expected FG of 1.011, but (depending on mash etc) I would think that (tentatively) 1.008 would be closer to an FG for a saison...although of course this IS a new product so these early posts and anecdotes are really appreciated by all us saison lovers.
> 
> 
> Cheers :icon_cheers:


Thanks for the tip Lecterfan. Seems to have finished at 1.008. Looking at things this seems to be atenuation of 84%. Does this sound right (ballpark)?

If I'm going to repitch on a slurry, can I use finings or should I just cold crash? I've got just enough ingredients to do a half brew (10L?) and the weather looks to be staying warm.

Cheers,

Toolio666


----------



## Lecterfan

Without knowing any mash details that sounds like more what you'd expect rather than your original prediction of 1.011. If you mash low and slow or step mash you can get saisons nice and low. My wy3711 beers get to 1.006 without trying and 1.004 with a step mash. I have a friend who did low and slow mash and hit 1.002 with it. My VERY limited use of 3724 has only resulted in 1.008 and 1.006 so far.

Personally I don't re-pitch onto a yeast cake, but scoop out the required amount for the next beer. I am hesitant to comment about whether to use it from a beer that has had finings added to the fermenter. If you washed the yeast it might be ok. I wouldn't do it but I am ignorant of the science and all of your variables and am not interested in being hamstrung for making some outrageous statement about something I clearly know nothing about.

If you use the google search above and look for 'saison' or 'bullshead summer saison' etc you will find hours of excellent reading material on these strange beasts. Pour a pint, get comfy and get into it haha.


----------



## DeGarre

I am quite excited about this yeast, just received two packets so I will brew one saison next week - it is still snow in the ground -cold - and then another brew in the summer - late 20's hopefully - and see how this compares to my 2 previous saison brews:

1. wlp565 belgian saison I : excellent, fruity, exactly like Dupont super saison Moinette
2. wlp566 belgian saison II: not as good as wlp565, didn't have that fruitiness or Dupont tang.


----------



## Barry

Good Day
I have brewed two batches of saison on 01/02/2013. Both batches were the same with OG 1.050. I pitched WLP565 into one and Saison Belle into the other. They fermented in the brew shed at temps between mid 20's to mid 30's.
They both had krausen next morning but the Belle Saison was twice as thick and stayed that way for most of the fermentation.
Gravity readings were as follows; 7/2, Belle 1.006 WLP565 1.010. 12/2, Belle 1.002 WLP565 1.006. 20/2 Kegged/bottled
Belle 1.002 WLP565 1.004 (which is the usual FG for my Saisons when I use WLP565).
Both yeasts looked the same at the bottom of the fermenters. Same amount, creamy texture slightly orange in colour. The Belle krausen residue on the side of the fermenter was slightly harder to remove but still easy to do so.
While young, my tastings from the kegs confirm that I have two, but different, saisons. The WLP565 has the crisp fruitiness. The Belle seems to be a bit less fruity but with a nice tang.
I will do a blind comparison with some fellow home brewers next weekend and at the ESB meeting at the end of the month and will report back with results.
In the mean time IMHO Saison Belle appears to be a true saison yeast and it is worth a try.
Hope this helps.


----------



## tazman1967

I am going to use this yeast in Tony's BullsHead Summer Saison recipe. I have made this with the French, Belgian and Farmhouse Ale ( my Fav ) strains.
I'll be pitching one pack and fermenting about 25 degrees,
Be interested to see how it goes and might try some repitch's on the yeast cake.
Cheers


----------



## doon

I just pitched a 1.5l starter of this yeast and have krausen in under two hours


----------



## doon

Massive krausen come and completely dropped out in two days!


----------



## Barry

Good Day
Took two bottles of Saison to the home brew shop yesterday, one fermented with the Saison Belle and the other with WLP565. I knew which was which but it was a blind tasting for the other three. One agreed with my view that the WLP565 was slightly "better". One really preferred the WLP565, while the fourth liked the Saison Belle more. The general consensus was that the WLP565 was fruity and mellow while the Saison Belle was spicier. They agreed that both beers were good saisons (sorry about the self praise).
I did ferment into the low 30's oC which the WLP565 seems to like but Saison Belle might prefer the mid to high 20's oC?
IMHO it is worth a try.


----------



## Rowy

Well just tried my first glass of a simple Belgian type grain bill etc. with this yeast thrown in. Fermented at about 22 for 2 weeks (Under inside stairs which gives me a constant 22 and allows me to keep using my ferm fridge at 18ish). CC'd for a week and in the keg for 2 days. A slight hint and I mean slight of banana first up. Ends nice and spicy maybe peppery on the tongue. Would like it a bit more tart to be honest but bloody nice all the same and let's be honest it's pretty early yet I just don't thik I'll have the will power to let it age  .


----------



## Judanero

Glad I picked two packets of this yeast up from the LHBS yesterday... Can't wait to give it a run :drinks:


----------



## Rowy

I reckon I will ferment lower next time Judanero. Maybe 19ish.


----------



## Lecterfan

What is your reasoning there Rowy? The banana? Any reason you wouldn't ferment hotter given some of the comments in the other thread and based on the liquid saison yeasts?

These questions are posed in a friendly manner, not to be read as being smart-arse or confrontational...insert a million smiley faces etc etc.


----------



## Rowy

Exactly lecter and no offence taken. I just did a wheat with 1214 at 22 and to be honest I'm a bit over banana at the moment. Your opinion would be valued if you reckon I should go the other way :icon_cheers: I'm still learning with these type of beers and particulalry the yeasts.


----------



## Lecterfan

I've got two packs of this ready to go. I am only a yellow belt saison maker, but concur with the consensus that they are generally more interesting as they warm up. I am one of the rare sub-species that prefers 3711 to 3724, and I find it will generate lovely, tart flavours from 20c - 28c (I've never pushed it insanely like some have). Yes, 3724 tastes the goods (dupont etc) but needs time and patience up around 30c. I've not tried the farmhouse ale strain itself (forgotten the number).

So, I'm just wondering if the banana, or any other qualities that aren't particularly desired are found at 22c, could they possibly be enhanced at an even lower temp? Perhaps these are stress issues that would be no problem in the mid 20s? Oooh this is exciting, riding the wave of a new yeast. It will be three weeks before I brew with dammit!


----------



## doon

I am definitely getting a more belgian profile from this yeast. Alot of clove like esters and peppery on tongue. 

I dont mind it would be interesting to use it on the grain bill for tonys saison and run it a bit lower temp


----------



## Beersuit

I agree with Doon it comes across with the esters you find from the Belgium yeast only not as tart and acidic. The one I'm drinking at the moment was brewed at ambient approximately 23 25 and I'm not getting too many bananas. 
Thought I'd better sample it before the club meeting Friday night. Might not be much left.


----------



## doon

Yeah i just let it run at ambient melbourne temps the other week so it got up there. Its definitely not as tart and crisp as 3711 

Mine came out around 7% bit dangerous!


----------



## Beersuit

My first 20lt single packet pitch finished at 1.001 down from 1.045 the 40lt on the yeast cake finished the same but down from 1.050. It's dry but has a nice mouth feel.


----------



## DeGarre

I thought peppery too, and totally get the banana now too - I bottled today and am having a glass, banana reminds me of Finnish "Sahti" beer which is fermented with baker's yeast.

14 days and couldn't get it under 1.008, temp was 20-22.

Would be interested to know which strain this is, if there is a certain brewery behind this yeast.


----------



## Muggus

Barry said:


> IMHO it is worth a try.


 That's all I need to hear...gonna give this a try now 

Saw it in the LHBS today, and have been meaning to brew a Saison for a number of years now. This seals the deal! Thanks Barry


----------



## sav

Put a brew down on sat night wyerman bo pils 2% caramunich 1 ,EKG at 60 and syrings at 5. Og was 1052.
Sunday morning and it was cranking.
Dumped a bit today when I got home and the aroma is definitely there from the yeast bit keen to try this brew.

Cheers sav
Let you know what it gets down to currently sitting at 22 deg


----------



## Phillo

:icon_offtopic:

Curious as hell about this Saison gig. If I strolled into Dan's tomorrow, what's a good commercial offering I'd be likely to find?


----------



## sav

None that I know off


----------



## Phillo

So how does a fella taste a Saison if he can't find one?


----------



## hoppy2B

Phillo said:


> So how does a fella taste a Saison if he can't find one?


He maketh one.


----------



## bconnery

You'd be unlikely to find one at Dan's.
You'd need a better bottle store.
If you can seek them out some good ones definitely available in Australia (depending on where you are) are:
Saison Dupont
Temple Saison
Bridge Roads Chevalier Saison
La Sirene Saison (fairly limited supply but worth finding in my opinion)

That's just a few that come to mind on a Tuesday morning. Others out there as well...


Phillo said:


> :icon_offtopic:
> 
> Curious as hell about this Saison gig. If I strolled into Dan's tomorrow, what's a good commercial offering I'd be likely to find?


----------



## Phillo

Nice. Many thanks.


----------



## Ivonavich

The Cellabrations store here in Gladdy has Silly Saison available. Dunno how it rates to other saisons....


----------



## sav

Had a look today looks like its finishing already cranked fridge 2 30deg see how low I can get it. 
Sav


----------



## jyo

Ivonavich said:


> The Cellabrations store here in Gladdy has Silly Saison available. Dunno how it rates to other saisons....


I tried that a few years ago. It was a nice beer but not a pale saison. I remember some burnt toffee and low caramel flavours.


----------



## hoppy2B

Dupont use a wine yeast apparently. I was thinking of doing something similar.


----------



## bum

hoppy2B said:


> Dupont use a wine yeast apparently. I was thinking of doing something similar.


Don't you already do something similar?


----------



## dr K

B-S is highly attenuative and extremely active.
The rest is up to you.
Any beer or indeed wine yeast you use, if fermented above say 21C is going to give you esters you may or may not want, the higher the temp the more esters and worse, but we know all this. I guess (well more than guess) the trick with saisson is to hold it back to 19 or so during the lag and once the log starts let it it run, B-S is very active and will drive the temp up of its own accord.
Just for fun (because I like fun) I recently made a dark beer (some sort of base lots of Caraoma, Dark Wheat, Midnight Wheat, Pale Chocolate and because I had no CaraRed, CaraPils) and fermented with B-S.
I held it 19C for 48 hours then let it run but stopped it at 25C. All I can say is that this a fantastic yeast (for these sorts of beers).
K


----------



## jimi

Phillo said:


> So how does a fella taste a Saison if he can't find one?


The Forrest brewery did a fantastic honey Saison as a summer seasonal. Not sure if its still available but everyone would do well to try it if they had the opportunity. Keep in mind if you're travelling around during Easter , I imagine their distribution is pretty limited


----------



## hoppy2B

bum said:


> Don't you already do something similar?


Yeah, I have used SN9 and found it gives a nice creamy mouthfeel. A dry hopped IPA fermented with SN9 has a long lingering spicey hop flavour. I have a strong hop flavour in my mouth 1/2 an hour after I've finished drinking.
I was actually thinking of a different yeast I used a week ago to ferment some wine which made a wine with a high level of acid which I will use for blending to balance the acid of my main wine and bring out fruit flavours. Should be perfect for wheat beer, might suit a saison as some saisons are quite tart apparently. 
I'm no saison expert mind, but I do find a lot of the descriptions for wheat, saison and belgian ale yeasts seem very similar.


----------



## mikec

I know this yeast is highly attenuative, does anyone know the actual numbers (based on experience I guess)?
It's not listed on Danstar's website.


----------



## razz

Going by the graph on the Danstar pdf it's approx 86%, if you look at some of the figures that some forum members are getting mike then I think they are similar.


----------



## sav

Ok my saison has pulled up stumps OG was 1054 and it has finished at 1002 that about 91 attenuation tastes nice and dry. 
I will keg filter tomorrow let you know how it comes out very happy at the moment with this yeast
Sav


----------



## sav

I have a English mild in a cube wondering if I should dump it on the cake what do ya think


----------



## Rowy

sav said:


> I have a English mild in a cube wondering if I should dump it on the cake what do ya think


Don't die wondering Sav!


----------



## jyo

I would! Have a crack.


----------



## Ivonavich

I put the Belle Saison into a simple K+B Draught recipe (OG 1061) and it is down to 1006 in 4 days..... Cold Crashing it now... 

Sample was pretty good - cant wait to taste it in a few weeks


----------



## Muggus

Pitched 2 packs of this into a 1.054 wort at 2:30 this arvo. Fermenting at 22 degrees
It's taken off well and truely already...i'm scared!


----------



## doon

Got to say this yeasts profile at higher temps is not great. Ran this over 30ish and its quite peppery even after two weeks in keg. 3711 tastes much better


----------



## malt_shovel

i ran it at about 35 to see what i got and early on thei had loads of fruity esters and some bubblegum as well which was not what i wanted. the bubblegum has disappeared after cold conditioning and left a nice fruitiness with some pepper and tartness that doesn't hint at the low final gravity. 1.050 - 1.002. 
i have a dark saison on that a week in at 25 is much more like you describe with a lot of pepper. the jury is still out for me on the optimal temp for this yeast but i will push it high again.


----------



## Muggus

I've been fermenting this for 4 days now at an ambient sort of 18-22°C
Attentuated well past 1.010
Has quite a bit of fruitiness about it, touch of banana (perhaps a result of using a large proportion of wheat?), bit of pepper and spice but not dominant. Does have a distinct tartness on the palate which I haven't experienced from a yeast thus far; should be interesting to see where it goes at these sorts of temps.


----------



## Ivonavich

1pkt knocked a 1060 down to 1006 in 6 days!!! This was at 25deg. Tasting at bottling was all pears with a hint of pepper.....


----------



## mikec

Pitched one pack in 20L of 1.048 wort on Monday. By saturday it was at 1.003.
That 93.5% AA!

Pitched at 20C and after it was running brought it up by a couple of degrees a day, ending at 30C.

We shall know soon enough how it turns out.


----------



## [email protected]

G'day all,

On our way home from Apollo Bay. Went to the Forrest Brewery for lunch yesterday. The honey saison is still available, goes by the name of Pobblebonk (and yes I thought the guy behind the bar was swearing at me). It is one of the best beers I have tasted for a good while and at 7% ABV it is dangerously easy to drink. 

On a side note the food was great as well. 

Regards,

Andrew.


----------



## doon

Much happier with this yeast second time round. Chucked two packets in 22 litres of 1060 wort and got down to 1003 in 4 days at around 25 deg. Esters are nice and subdued not peppery like when I ran it hot.


----------



## Bats

I got some of this yeast with my last order.

The only problem is, I was away for work when it was delivered and my wife put the yeast in the freezer thinking she was doing the right thing.

Can anyone tell me if this yeast would now be useless or viable any more?


----------



## Yob

Reportedly fine to do so, never tried it myself but from what I've read they can handle it ok


----------



## joshF

This yeast goes hard, i did tonys motueka saison with it and it went well. i fermented around 26 or 27 from memory but apparently it goes just as well around 22 if you don't want as much of that estery profile. Not knowing wtf a belgian saison was, i'm pretty impressed with how it turned out.


----------



## mmmyummybeer

I'm pretty sure frozen is fine, I think I remember reading something about needing to thow it out slowly as to reduce stress on the yeast. you could always make a starter and see how it goes.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

Dunno if the freezing question is about all dry yeasts, or just this one.

I freeze all yeasts. It keeps the kids out of it (which for me is a risk analysis thing, and the less risky thing to do is freeze it).

When I'm on a brew day, it comes out when the water goes on (if chilling) or I'll pull it out a couple hours before pitching (no chill).

I generally pitch straight in, though for some yeasts (generally the lagers - s189, danish dry), I'll rehydrate first. I did a side by side with US05, one rehydrated, one not. The rehydrated one ended up and running really quick, big krausen, no esters. The latter, more esters, but not much - still pretty clean though.

Never had an issue with yeast stress flavours.


----------



## malt_shovel

Kept the ferment on a dark saison below 25 and it was very well balanced between spicy and fruity phenols. I will keep it below 25 from now on. Great yeast and will definately be using again.


----------



## Muggus

This yeast is, once again, scaring me...
Finished doing a Saison - left it there for 3 weeks all up due to lack of time. Attenuated from 1.055 to 1.002! Bottled that this arvo.
Re-pitched the cake into a 1.064 stout. Sitting at ambient temps 20-22°C, it's starting to Krausen after 4 hours!

Might have to find some way of killing this beast after it's done with this beer...


----------



## DeGarre

Pitching this yeast later today, brewing a rye saison today. Temps are around 25-32 so let's put this baby through its paces and see what it can do! In early March at around 20 degrees I got it down to 1.008-1.009...


----------



## DeGarre

7 day at 23+ degC (in the beginning as high as 30, now 23), 1.052 => 1.010 which is a slight disappointment.


----------



## DeGarre

18 days and at 1.008, disappointed, taste is great though - time to bottle.


----------



## seehuusen

Slight grave dig, but I just pitched this into a double batch of Tony's Saison (slightly modified grist bill and completely different hops bill)
I pitched it at 0.9g/l rather than 1g/l (I don't think it'll matter too much tbh)

Reading through everyone's experience, the 22-28c weather we're having at the moment in SEQ will be perfect by the sounds of it


----------



## DJR

I got a couple of packs of this to try out, and I thought I'd just sprinkle one pack into about 21l of 1044 wort yesterday, not wanting to go the full 2 packs for 1g/L. Well, it started fine. 2cm of krausen this morning about 11h after pitching. No rehydration just sprinkled. Have to check for sulfur or esters but tasted fine this morning.


----------



## DJR

Down to 1030 already after 36h. Doesn't seem like anything wrong with it from "underpitching" according to the recommended rate and not rehydrating


----------



## seehuusen

Mine had a minor 1 hour window where I had to clean air locks and swap over to hoses rather than the bubbler (within the first 24h of pitching).
I haven't checked the gravity, but it's still fermenting away out in the brew shed (no overflow since then)


----------



## Yeastfridge

Did a side by side double batch with Belle Saison and Wyeast French saison 3711 on Monday... Rehydrated 1.6x packets of Belle Saison (saving a bit for a starter) into one fermenter and one bulging Wyeast pack, both into 17L wort at 1.046. Pitched at about 24c on a 30c day. 
After 18 hours the 3711 was at 1.024 with a healthy krausen and the Belle Saison was as 1.012, also with a big thick krausen too. 
I'm hoping for around 1.005 or lower with both, I've had 3711 take beers to 1.002 before without any special mashing.
My unscientific pitching rates aside, hopefully I'll be able to give a good comparison of the two in a couple of weeks. They tasted pretty similarly spicy but the two different specific gravities made it hard to say just how similar they are.


----------



## seehuusen

Mine's sitting on 1.003 going by my crappy old hydrometer, which is interesting, as I had bubbles of CO2 come out just prior to taking the sample...
I'll leave it for a little longer and check it again.

Flavour is dry, with a peppery flavour, not a whole heap of banana, which personally I'm happy about 

_edit - spelling_


----------



## seehuusen

OK, it's officially a monster this yeast!!

I just got a new hydrometer, because I wasn't too sure about the 1.003 reading yesterday... Well, it's 1.000 to 1.001 today, on both hydrometers!
Check it out:






That's close to 100% attenuation! I never even thought that would be possible??

Cheers
Martin


----------



## DJR

I think mine is down to 1004 or less from 1043. That's great  67c single mash temp, 12% raw wheat in the mash. Taste is good, maybe didn't expect it to be so dry but once its carbed up and cold it should be what I want for summer


----------



## TimT

I did a couple of saisons with this one last summer. The gravity dropped like buggery - went down to about 1.008 in one, 1.003 in another - and it absolutely loved the insane summer temperatures. The second and third saison I did with this one were a revelation - in both cases I omitted hops entirely, and used some gentle herbs (raspberry leaf, in one of the brews, by my recollection), and the taste was amazing. It really taught me what flavours in terms of esters, etc, a yeast can do. I definitely want to use this yeast again.


----------



## seehuusen

O/T, did you just pick raspberry leafs from the garden? How did you treat and use it?


----------



## TimT

Chucked them in at the end of the boil, from memory, to get a tea-like effect.


----------



## seehuusen

Interesting concept, thanks for the idea


----------



## stewy

I have a Sorachi Saison in the fermenter at the moment using Danstar Belle Saison. I pitched at 10pm on Friday night & took a gravity reading today (Monday) at 2pm. It's already down to 1004!! Belle Saison is a greedy fat bastard!


----------



## Tahoose

Have my Maiden Saison fermenting at the moment with this yeast. Haven't tasted it or got a gravity sample yet but it smells awesome!!


----------



## GalBrew

Try running a cool fermentation with BS. Does not work, can let it free rise but don't try and keep it sub 21-22. Just grinds to a halt.


----------



## kz412

Can anyone comment on their experience with using this yeast at ambient QLD temps? I've just tapped a keg of a Saison I brewed back in September, where I just left the FV in the laundry with no temp control, with ambient temp fluctuating between ~20 deg at night to ~30 deg during the day. OG of about 1050, down to 1002. 

The end result has a bit of an odd flavour, which, although I don't have that refined a palate, I'm pretty sure is a hint of fusels - having limited experience with commercial Saisons however, some of the odd flavour may be expected.

My guess is the fluctuations probably stressed the yeasties a bit, wondering if next time I should wrap it in a blanket from the get go, even if this means potentially getting too hot, or should I just give in and do things properly (chucking it in the fermenting fridge , which only holds one FV currently, and possibly buying a heat belt).


----------



## seehuusen

I made one about a month and a half ago, it was bottled after about 2 weeks, fermented at ambient whatever temps it was here in SEQ (20-30C same as yours).
The flavour is great, slight banana, hint of cloves and super, super dry!


----------



## kz412

Scratch that, just managed to get a hold of some Saison Dupont today, and I think the issue is moreso that I'm not so accustomed to the more funky yeast flavours prevalent in the style. Mine doesn't too far off the Dupont, to the point where the girlfriend picked my version as the commercial one in a blind tasting!

Main difference I'm finding is the banana and pear (I think it's best described as pear...) is a bit more prevalent in mine, whereas in the dupont, the clove spiciness is a little more center stage. I've read in German beers this balance is affected somewhat by pitching rates, anyone have any ideas if there's any way to push the Belle Saison more towards the clove/spicy end of the balance?


----------



## Kumamoto_Ken

I'm not sure this is the right thread for this but I need some general advice (Belle Saison related).
I've painted myself into a bit of a corner with some poor planning over the silly season. I have grain and hops for two planned saisons (one mid-strength and one full-strength). I only have the one sachet of Belle Saison and originally planned to brew them back-to-back and re-use yeast from the first in the second
.
Complicating everything is some travel coming up in January (from 10 Jan to 24 Jan). Given the time of year and the volume of beer I seem to be going through I'd really like at least one FV in action while we're away.

I have two FVs currently in use but soon ready to bottle. Two questions regarding my issue:

- If I get the first brew underway in a day or so I could keg it on the 9th and re-pitch the yeast into the second batch which would be cubed and ready to go. That would mean only 7-8 days in the FV. Will a saison suffer from a short period like this in the FV? My concern is that it won't finish dry enough. It is planned with an OG of 1.032, and I was planning to pitch at 20C and then raise the temp gradually to 27-28 or so.

- If that is too short a period in the FV I could make a starter with my one sachet of Belle Saison and then split the starter and get both brews going concurrently (either in the ferm fridge or ambient). I know a starter for dry yeast isn't usually the done thing but in this instance it would mean getting both beers going at the one time.

Any thoughts? 

Will a saison suffer for only 8 days fermenting?


----------



## mosto

I've only done one brew with this, but it fermented from 1.050 to 1.002 in 9 days (may have been less, only took a sample at day 9). Hope this helps.

I'd never tasted a Saison, let alone brewed one, so not didn't really have anything to compare with. I got a sort of malty sweetness coming through initially, even with an FG of 1.002, but later on came the dryness and lemony citrus I was kind of expecting. Also had a slight 'funk' to it, which I had expected also. All in all, a pretty nice beer.


----------



## Kumamoto_Ken

Thanks mosto.

I've only ever used it once myself on a beer that went from 1040 to 1000 (on my hydrometer anyway) in 21 days last year in Nov/Dec at ambient in the garage. I didn't take any intermediate readings so have no idea how quickly it dropped. My preference would be to do the beers back to back but I just wonder what the down-side might be, and the main thing I can think of is that it might not be dry enough. As a saison it obviously doesn't need to be 'clean' with the extra time in the FV. I'll keg it (or most of it) so there won't be bottle bombs. 

Since I don't have much experience with this style I'd just be interested in hearing from those with more experience as to whether it need the additional time in the FV, to dry right out.


----------



## mje1980

With a small original gravity and warmish ferment it should be ready by the 9th. Most normal yeast strains would do that on a 1.032 beer.


----------



## Kumamoto_Ken

mje1980 said:


> With a small original gravity and warmish ferment it should be ready by the 9th. Most normal yeast strains would do that on a 1.032 beer.


Thanks mje1980. I think I'll go option one. If it turns out terribly I'll just blame Liam_Snorkel, whose recipe I have ripped off.


----------



## dannymars

Wow, first time using this yeast... It's very aggressive, I had krausen in about 5 hours with no rehydration... just pitched the dry yeast on top. 24 hours later and it's going ballistic. Can't wait to try


----------



## goatchop41

i made the mistake of trying to make a table saison with this yeast. Overshot my OG so started at 1.039 instead of .035. Mashed high and short to hopefully keep a *little* body and not let it attenuate too low....

Ended up at an FG of 1.001 with an ABV of almost 5%! Beware this yeast's hunger!


----------



## dannymars

Yep, mine ended at 1.002 ... 7.3%abv

Golly


----------



## stuartf

Ok got my shovel and decided to dig this thread up again. Brewing my first ever saison this weekend and planning to use belle saison. After reading this thread I was wondering if anyone had settled on a good temperature range for this yeast? Seems people had very different results fermenting in mid 20s compared to getting up into the 30s. Now the BS strain has been out for a few years what does everyone think?
Cheers


----------



## Coldspace

Not sure yet, mines ccing ATM, will be my first saison ,and will be into keg next week.

Mine started at 1052, I fired this yeast up in a 1.5 ltr starter for 24 hrs first, pitched at 22 and let rise over first 24 hrs to 26. 
4 days and was down to 1002.

Wish I had access to some wyeast type saison , but last week could only get this one.

Seems some like it and some don't . Will see how it pans out for me...


----------



## Dan Pratt

My recent rye saison with this yeast was fermented at 20c for 3days. 1045 gravity, ramped to 28c for 5days to ferment out.....FG 0.998

Fortunately the malt bill also had 6% rolled oats so some kind of body to the beer exist.


----------



## Coldspace

I mashed mine at 64, used alittle accidualted malt and O2 . It's a monster yeast that's for sure...
Hydro tastings were promising.

Rye, addition sounds nice. I do like rye and have a sack.

Care to share the receipe ?


----------



## stuartf

Rye in a saison? Interesting what % did you use, just wondering how much it would add to the spiciness and dryness of what's already a dry style?


----------



## Coldspace

Ok, my first Saison has turned out nice...
Final grav with this yeast was 1002 from 1052 start. 6.6% 

Kegged after 1 week cc, carbed up at 40 psi for 36 hrs, I wanted it real carbed and served at -1 .

Nice and dry, crisp, slight peppery finish, with a nice subdued funk to it. Pitched at 22 and allowed to rise to 26 and it was done in 5 days. But I left it for 8 days before cc.

Going to try this receipe again using wyeast versions to compare the diff.

Cheers


----------



## Dan Pratt

Just catching up.

Rye Saison 

Pils 72%
Wheat 6%
Rye 6%
oats 6%

Mashed at 66c

At that % it adds a nice blend of flavours with the yeast, the oats and wheat help keep some body to the finish.


----------



## Mr B

I quite like it all the way at 18 deg.


----------



## stuartf

Just tasted my saison 4 days into the fermentation and have to say it's tasting awsome. Bit longer to go to fg but I'm impressed with the belle saison yeast so far. Been fermenting at ambient garage temps which was 19C on Saturday up to 35 on Monday then been sitting around 24 for the last 2 days. So far very happy


----------



## JDW81

What's the highest temp that people have fermented this yeast at? The lallemand website states that optimal fermentation temps are from 15-35C (quite a wide range), but can't find much info on what sort of flavours you get at high temps.

I've got family coming for the silly season, and was hoping to get one more beer in the keg but the weather isn't looking favourable for fermentation (and I don't have a fermenting fridge at present).

Got a 70:30 ale/wheat cube which would go nicely as a saison, so thought that would be a good option to ferment while its hot (should be able to keep the fermenter below 30C without too much trouble).

JD


----------



## TheSumOfAllBeers

I have taken belle saison up to 32c with a heat belt. Made good beer


----------



## Wolfman1

I just did a rye saison with this yeast and I’m very happy with the results. 
It’s got a great Dry Spicy finish. I was hoping to make it a 4% summer quaffer but hadn’t counted on it finishing so dry so it’s almost 5%. 
I’ve made a couple of ciders with this yeast as well and it has a really nice funky finish to it. It makes the Coles apple juice taste like it’s from exotic cider fruit


----------

