# Importing Seeds



## vertigo (19/3/09)

Edit:

Sorry about that. I'm thinking about importing some seeds, well a packet of 50 (Humulus lupulus) I tried calling and searching the importation of these seeds, but no luck so far. Can someone who has imported seeds from the USA, or works in this field please tell me if I'm going to get in trouble.


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## Bubba Q (19/3/09)

ok, i will assume this was a query in regards to the importation of seeds from the USA

first things, check http://www.aqis.gov.au/icon32/asp/ex_querycontent.asp to check if you need and import permit or need to meet any conditions prior to bringing the seeds in. personal and commercial shipments have different regulations.

if in doubt get a customs broker.


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## vertigo (19/3/09)

Yeah, I have done that, but no luck. I checked out the prohibited listings, and the restriction listings. Nothing.. Yeah, I rang customs, nothing.


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## Bubba Q (19/3/09)

from what i can see it depends on where AQIS classify seeds as to what your conditions would be, hop pellets, dried hops and hops for nursery stock all have different import conditions attached to them

best contact AQIS Plant Programs on [email protected] or 02 6272 3917


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## Bizier (19/3/09)

Please post your results if you get a final answer Vertigo.


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## Screwtop (19/3/09)

vertigo said:


> Edit:
> 
> Sorry about that. I'm thinking about importing some seeds, well a packet of 50 (Humulus lupulus) I tried calling and searching the importation of these seeds, but no luck so far. Can someone who has imported seeds from the USA, or works in this field please tell me if I'm going to get in trouble.




I assume you don't care whether the plants you grow from the seed are male or female ?

Screwy


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## vertigo (19/3/09)

Yeah, calling them is pretty well next useless. I have already tried to call them. The person on the other end of the line said "Have you got a pen? write this website down. aqis.gov.au/icon and do a search on the name of the plant, or seeds that you would like to bring into the country" I have tried it..nothing.


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## vertigo (19/3/09)

> I assume you don't care whether the plants you grow from the seed are male or female ?


Not at the momment.


> Please post your results if you get a final answer Vertigo.


Oh yeah, if I don't get fined, or sent to jail (joking)


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## brettprevans (19/3/09)

what about this page on the AQIS site

I would have thought that gave you most of the info you need.


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## chappo1970 (19/3/09)

Virtigo,
Be very careful and do the homework as the others have said in previous posts. Persist with AQIS until you get an answer and make sure that it is in writing. 

I had a not to great experience 20 years ago in Uni with a house mate, who tried on behalf of his father to import seeds from a certain fruit tree. Lets just say it ended up with our house being raided by customs and Federal Police, the house was trashed, a big #12 boot in my back whilst being hand cuffed and an evening in the watch house. I ended getting off as I had no involvement but my house mate and family got a massive fine and a conviction.

So err on the side of caution would be my advice.


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## Bubba Q (19/3/09)

that import condition only refers to 


> Hops (sometimes referred to as Leaf hops) are the whole flower dried and uncompressed. Refer to the ICON commodity Hops (Humulus lupulus) - Dried.
> 
> Hops cones are dried, cultivated (unprocessed) flowers. Refer to the ICON commodity Hops (Humulus lupulus) - Dried.
> 
> ...



hops seeds dont fall into here. 

As the OP has mentioned he has already phoned AQIS and the told him to refer to the ICON. my advise now is to shoot them an email and advise that he is unable to find the exact import conditions. They usually respond within 2 working days to requests like this.

Or, he could put this in the too hard basket and try to source seeds locally.


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## Effect (19/3/09)

vertigo said:


> Not at the momment.




I think that one went over your head!


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## HoppingMad (19/3/09)

Ambitious project to grow hops from seed, but good luck and report back what you find. 

Like screwtop said, the gender makes all the difference so grabbing seed means you'll be growing lots of useless plants that won't have hop flowers. They're part of the hemp family so they're like their more smokable cousins if you get my drift.  Some have the goods, some don't.

Using rhizomes means you'll get the stuff that works and flowers. Believe plenty of people here have previously had great trouble importing hop rhizomes from here:Freshops US Rhizomes - as you can see prices on the site are very reasonable, but quarantine is a problem.

But like I said, good luck! And if you can get Amarillo into this country, you'll have a lot of fans here!

Hopper.


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## vertigo (19/3/09)

> Virtigo,
> Be very careful and do the homework as the others have said in previous posts. Persist with AQIS until you get an answer and make sure that it is in writing.


No prob's. Like hell they put anything in writing.


> I had a not to great experience 20 years ago in Uni with a house mate, who tried on behalf of his father to import seeds from a certain fruit tree.


Naught boy. I looked up citus trees, shit, heaps of them are prohibited.


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## brettprevans (19/3/09)

fine. classify them as a fruit tree seed. here. or mixed seeds here or most likely use this one for herbs. easy.

or again. contact a customs agent. as in a person that will act as your agent/representitive with customs etc. thats what they do for a crust. not a person that works for customs.


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## vertigo (19/3/09)

> Ambitious project to grow hops from seed, but good luck and report back what you find.


You got that dam right. I'm a very ambitous person, not much gets in my way. I will get back to you guys, if this works out ok.


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## chappo1970 (19/3/09)

vertigo said:


> No prob's. Like hell they put anything in writing.Naught boy. I looked up citus trees, sh#t, heaps of them are prohibited.



A huh! Do not take any short cuts what so ever and have everything verified in writing with a name if at all possible. FIL (Father in Law) just retired from 38yrs of services with Customs, they don't stuff around and they have some amasing kit at their disposal to sniff it out.


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## reviled (19/3/09)

Chappo said:


> Virtigo,
> Be very careful and do the homework as the others have said in previous posts. Persist with AQIS until you get an answer and make sure that it is in writing.
> 
> I had a not to great experience 20 years ago in Uni with a house mate, who tried on behalf of his father to import seeds from a certain fruit tree. Lets just say it ended up with our house being raided by customs and Federal Police, the house was trashed, a big #12 boot in my back whilst being hand cuffed and an evening in the watch house. I ended getting off as I had no involvement but my house mate and family got a massive fine and a conviction.
> ...



WTF :unsure: Intense bro! So what was the said fruit tree seed? h34r:


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## vertigo (19/3/09)

> A huh! Do not take any short cuts what so ever and have everything verified in writing with a name if at all possible. FIL (Father in Law) just retired from 38yrs of services with Customs, they don't stuff around and they have some amasing kit at their disposal to sniff it out.


I'm not trying to take shortcuts, I just want to know if I'm going to get hit heaps of fees, charges for importing some seeds that don't appear to be illegal.. Ask him...Please, we could all get the answer now. Or just MP me and I'll take the actions required to complete the importation.


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## vertigo (19/3/09)

> FIL (Father in Law) just retired from 38yrs of services with Customs, they don't stuff around and they have some amasing kit at their disposal to sniff it out.


I have called them as well, and they just f....ed me around. I rang AQIS and they f....ed me around, so I'v emailed them. I bet I get f....ed around again. 

f...ed around untill I get f...ed up in cuffs. Oh well


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## chappo1970 (19/3/09)

Will do Vertigo! I understand you want the fees etc. I will see what i can get out of him for ya. The problem is he is a grey nomad so it might take a wee bit of time.


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## vertigo (19/3/09)

That would great to find out, one way or the other.


> I think I have too much blood in my alcohol system?


I love that, can you get blood, or test of it? (joking) no reply needed. My medic say that I'm about at that stage. Kidneys are still in there..some where, I think!


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## chappo1970 (19/3/09)

Ok Vertigo,
The short and the skinny of it is don't even bother unless you plan to grow it commercially. The paper work and the costs for AQIS accessment and ensuing quarantine are going to exhaust your wallet. FIL says that plants in particular are next to impossible because of the potential threat and damage to native flora, fauna and more importantly existing commercial crops, especially if it is a new species in Australia. Even it it is here in Australia you need to be able to verify that those seeds are actually what you say they are and you have sourced them from an accredited supplier who guarantee the species delivery. He suggested hunting down, if there is someone who grows it locally, you are better to go that way than trying to import it yourself.
No he was involved in gun importation and accreditation for the last 10 years of his service but suggested that you are best dealing with AQIS who probably won't be overly helpful as they get 1000's of requests a week but persist with them if your that keen.


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## vertigo (19/3/09)

> FIL says that plants in particular are next to impossible because of the potential threat and damage to native flora, fauna and more importantly existing commercial crops, especially if it is a new species in Australia.


Well, its a packet of seeds. I wouldn't import plants, thats just to costly.


> The short and the skinny of it is don't even bother unless you plan to grow it commercially.


It's not for a commercially avaiable market. I plan to sow 24 seeds and see what happens. Anyway most of them will likely die. I'll keep the strongest plants and destroy the rest. 

(remember that we are talking about seeds, not plants)


> Even it it is here in Australia you need to be able to verify that those seeds are actually what you say they are and you have sourced them from an accredited supplier who guarantee the species delivery.


that is f...ed up stuff, I'll grow them in a greenhouse. I burn anything that is dangerous as a rule of thumb.


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## chappo1970 (19/3/09)

OK your frustrated, I get that, but seed grows to plants, yes? So seed, plant no difference. Same, same. You will still need to be able to guarantee that those seeds are going to grow the plants you say they are. Get my drift? They could be any bloody seed/plant and it's near impossible to identify some plant species from their seeds apparently? I don't know, I'm not a biologist, I am a simple "salt of the earth" dumb as a bag of bricks builder. What I was told is unless you have a reliable accredited source that has done this before don't bother UNLESS you want to do it commercially because the costs are very probititive for the average Joe Blow. That's all, take what you will, I was merely trying to help.


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## lczaban (19/3/09)

Chappo said:


> OK your frustrated, I get that, but seed grows to plants, yes? So seed, plant no difference. Same, same. You will still need to be able to guarantee that those seeds are going to grow the plants you say they are. Get my drift? They could be any bloody seed/plant and it's near impossible to identify some plant species from their seeds apparently? I don't know, I'm not a biologist, I am a simple "salt of the earth" dumb as a bag of bricks builder. What I was told is unless you have a reliable accredited source that has done this before don't bother UNLESS you want to do it commercially because the costs are very probititive for the average Joe Blow. That's all, take what you will, I was merely trying to help.



+1 If you are dead keen it would be wise to engage a customs broker. While this is a lot of money it is probably the simplest way of getting the seeds you need to into the country IMHO. These guys will know what the deal is and will have all the different contacts to make it happen. The odds are that this is going to cost a fortune anyway (otherwise commercial hop growers/dealers like some that post on this forum would be doing it), so you may as well spend your $'s and time effectively and get the experts working for you.

I still don't like you chances FWIW.... - my 2c


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## vertigo (19/3/09)

Forget it, its too hard.


> Gravity isn't a downward force - gravity sucks!


Is that meant to piss off someone! Because, your on the ground because of it "gravity sucks" I love gravity


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## Bizier (19/3/09)

vertigo said:


> I love gravity



With a name like Vertigo?
No...


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## chappo1970 (19/3/09)

vertigo said:


> You got that dam right. I'm a very ambitous person, not much gets in my way. I will get back to you guys, if this works out ok.



4 1/2 hours later?



vertigo said:


> Forget it, its too hard...




Hmmm...


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## Mantis (19/3/09)

I know for a fact that they will sieze seeds they are unsure of and its then up to you to prove what they are. 
I've had tomato and pepper seeds held till I provided them with the full bontanical name 
Now tomato seeds are banned altogether due to some potato virus the seeds can carry, and fair enough too. 
I have over a hundred varieties now and many I havent tried yet. 

Good luck with it all eh


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## glenos (19/3/09)

generally to get a new species into Aus, possibly applies to a new variety too, you will import the plant/seed to quarantine, it will be grown and tested for viruses, then the seed collected original plant destroyed, off spring grown and tested, then it might be released, or you could face another generation.

And yes AQIS are very hard to deal with, I deal with them rofessionally and get a different answer to my clients regarding the need for a permit when importing waste from Australia bases in Antarctica, we treat it as quarrantine material, permit or otherwise.


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## pdilley (19/3/09)

Frustrating I know but we don't want more cane toads even if the are green and have roots.

That said I'm frustrate as I had access to so many seed banks overseas.


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## braufrau (19/3/09)

Seeds other than legumes and cereals are generally OK. Naughty seeds are not, e.g poppies may be confiscated.
I've sent seeds to myself from overseas to save myself the hassle of customs at the airpot. And people have sent me seeds from the US.

Here is the import conditions for seeds ...
linky

and here is the permitted seed list
linky

Unfortunately humulus is not on the list


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## chappo1970 (19/3/09)

braufrau said:


> Unfortunately humulus is not on the list



Yep that's because the act, importing rogue agriculture, itself can destroy the entire commercial industry. Not too long ago fire ants where illegally introduced (insects I know) but there was a citrus disease as well but the name escapes me.

but to paraphrase from AQIS
"_It is the importers responsibility to identify and to ensure it has complied with, all requirements of any other regulatory and advisory bodies prior to and after importation including the Australian Customs Service, Therapeutic Goods Administration, Department of Health and Ageing, Department of the Environment, Water, Heritage and the Arts, Australian Pesticides & Veterinary Medicines Authority and any State agencies such as Departments of Agriculture and Health and Environmental Protection authorities"
_
Best of luck navigating that much red tape.


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## glenos (20/3/09)

braufrau said:


> Naughty seeds are not, e.g poppies may be confiscated.



Poppy seeds are easy, we get them in at work, couple of kg at a time, even the morphine instead of the theabine variety. I have been told that a bag of poppy seeds from the supermarket sprinkled in soil will germinate a few plants, they are quite pretty flowers, I can't imagine why else you would want them.

We do grow lots of them down here, for the pharmaceutical industry. 

From what I have heard the law take a dim view of possessing poppy plant material.


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## braufrau (20/3/09)

Chappo said:


> Yep that's because the act, importing rogue agriculture, itself can destroy the entire commercial industry. Not too long ago fire ants where illegally introduced (insects I know) but there was a citrus disease as well but the name escapes me.



Did you read the list? And the act?

If seeds are on the list you can bring them in .. no permit, no red tape (but you have to check the list against the list of weed species).
And if you read the list you would see that there are many many "agricultural" seeds.
Fire ants don't live on seeds.


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## braufrau (20/3/09)

glenos said:


> Poppy seeds are easy, we get them in at work, couple of kg at a time, even the morphine instead of the theabine variety. I have been told that a bag of poppy seeds from the supermarket sprinkled in soil will germinate a few plants, they are quite pretty flowers, I can't imagine why else you would want them.
> 
> We do grow lots of them down here, for the pharmaceutical industry.
> 
> From what I have heard the law take a dim view of possessing poppy plant material.



Seeds of Papaver Somniferum are explicitly excluded from the list. So either your business has a permit or AQIS just don't care. Actually that's one of the seeds I've sent myself. Bread seed poppy is also P. somniferum. So perhaps it is worth trying to send hop seeds. You may just lose the seeds. According to the act, they will be re-exported or destroyed.


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## HoppingMad (20/3/09)

:icon_offtopic: Large parts of tassie legally grow poppies for morphine for use in pain relief (hospitals etc) and have permits for it. In fact I believe Tassie grows more of this stuff than anywhere else. Remember seeing a program on it on the ABC and there was a lot of issues raised about how unsecured they were and how the poppies could get into the wrong hands and be cultivated by the wrong people - many are visible from the side of the road and easily accessible.

Hopper.


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## pdilley (20/3/09)

Looks like tobacco is ok which is good. I have a few I'm looking at for herbicidal and insecticidal purposes. Grow, dry, soak in water and spray. Lower doses is insecticide, higher doses is herbicide and its natural and breaks down quickly and non-toxic. The use of this in the states was banned in certain cities in certain states because the Famous Chemical Poision Companies, oh staring with the letter D, etc., selling expensive poisions at your local stores like a Bunnings lobbied to get it made illegal because it works, is cheap and not a big harm to the environment  I learned it from the same guy who showed you how spraying beer and soap mixtures onto your lawn will turn them into super lawns without having to spray the big nasty chemical company stuff.

Over the you even get giant barrels full of the hem p seed. Its been put through a "nuclear reactor" so none of them will germinate properly but you get them for birds to eat in those more fancy of the pet shops over there. 

I am not sure what hops would be like but I would like to just get a rhizome chunk from someone local to your area so the plant is acclimatized and thriving like buggary in your local conditions. Thats why I don't want to look outside of Canberra for sourcing them.


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## glenos (20/3/09)

Yeah, I'm in tassie, we test the seed for heavy metal contamination for the processors who extract the pharmaceuticals.

Like I said they do have the odd patch of paddock get emptied, its not all that common.

I'm not sure how much plant material you need to get a buzz, I would think it is quite a bit. Our resident stoner at work told me that the trick is to put a poppy head, still green, with some slits in the surface up yer bum. No thanks those things are big, 50mm across. :blink:


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## vertigo (26/3/09)

LATEST UPDATE

I'm not in jail. I have recieved some documents from the Department pf Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry. I will post them, as long as there is no legal reason why I can't. I require clearance of attaching these documents to the forum.


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## samhighley (26/3/09)

vertigo said:


> LATEST UPDATE
> 
> I'm not in jail. I have recieved some documents from the Department pf Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry. I will post them, as long as there is no legal reason why I can't. I require clearance of attaching these documents to the forum.



Are they the documents that give you two options:

1. Send them back to the country of origin at your expense
2. Have them destroyed at the taxpayers expense

?


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## Jase71 (26/3/09)

Brewer Pete said:


> Looks like tobacco is ok which is good. I have a few I'm looking at for herbicidal and insecticidal purposes. Grow, dry, soak in water and spray. Lower doses is insecticide, higher doses is herbicide and its natural and breaks down quickly and non-toxic. The use of this in the states was banned in certain cities in certain states because the Famous Chemical Poision Companies, oh staring with the letter D, etc., selling expensive poisions at your local stores like a Bunnings lobbied to get it made illegal because it works, is cheap and not a big harm to the environment  I learned it from the same guy who showed you how spraying beer and soap mixtures onto your lawn will turn them into super lawns without having to spray the big nasty chemical company stuff.



Tobacco is 100% ILLEGAL to grow in Australia without a licence (its under an ATO law believe it or not), so you may have issue with importation of seeds. PM me and I might be able to steer you towards a local source of seeds.  Boiling up tobacco leaves is very f##ing dangerous, so well ventilation should be observed, as well as close monitoring of your heart rate. 

Vertigo, as for the Hops seeds, glad you went ahead and gave it a go. If I ever order from OS and its of questionable status after referring to the ICON, i'll just go ahead and try it, in the knowledge that it may or may not be seized. Legal plants in Australia, obviously (prison doesnt appeal to me LOL) 

Personally, a $30 hop rhizome sourced locally would be your best bet.


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## Supra-Jim (26/3/09)

glenos said:


> I'm not sure how much plant material you need to get a buzz, I would think it is quite a bit. Our resident stoner at work told me that the trick is to put a poppy head, still green, with some slits in the surface up yer bum. No thanks those things are big, 50mm across. :blink:



LOL, that sounds like the kind of advice a straight person (looking for a laugh) would give to a jittery stoner just to see if they'll try and do it.

:icon_cheers: SJ


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## pdilley (26/3/09)

Jase71 said:


> Tobacco is 100% ILLEGAL to grow in Australia without a licence (its under an ATO law believe it or not), so you may have issue with importation of seeds. PM me and I might be able to steer you towards a local source of seeds.  Boiling up tobacco leaves is very f##ing dangerous, so well ventilation should be observed, as well as close monitoring of your heart rate.



Well that's a bit of backwards news comming from both the UK and States where it's legal for personal use, just not for resale. Also backwards if true in the capital where it is legal to grow and possess up 5 wacky weed plants. Legal to purchase a distillation device up to 5 litres in the capital territory provided you promise only to distill water --maybe to water those 5 weed plants?

No boiling involved, it's simply dried leaves or if you want to spend a lot a tin of chewin tobacco and just steeped at room temperature in water.


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## Supra-Jim (26/3/09)

I am pretty sure it is illegal because the government makes a very healthy (no-pun intended) profit from the taxes associated with the sales of tobacco products. Yes, i realise they also make moeny taxing beer, but no-where near as much. Tobacco is a very tightly controlled substance. Try sneaking onto a legal tobacco farm up Murtleford way and you'll see.

:icon_cheers: SJ


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## Jase71 (26/3/09)

I've seen the ATO document with my own eyes and I can advise taht it's certainly illegal to grow tobacco _in any capacity_ without a licence - unless this has changed in the past 18 months. The vagueness of the document doesn't even identify species, so it's an open-ended law that could include ornamentals. Although I wonder how they would go about charging someone for growing Australian Native species such as Nicotiana gossei.


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## chappo1970 (26/3/09)

FFS I say it again...



Chappo said:


> but to paraphrase from AQIS
> "_It is the importer's responsibility to identify and to ensure it has complied with, all requirements of any other regulatory and advisory bodies prior to and after importation including the Australian Customs Service, Therapeutic Goods Administration, Department of Health and Ageing, Department of the Environment, Water, Heritage and the Arts, Australian Pesticides & Veterinary Medicines Authority and any State agencies such as Departments of Agriculture and Health and Environmental Protection authorities"
> _




Customs is not the only authority you need to comply to, yeah? Nice out clause there on the website.


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## pdilley (26/3/09)

I deal with the ato on a different level so I asked around and got to read all the recent rulings. You're correct. By if you read the wording of the rulings you can easily see the logic, lack thereof  vey strange seeing a tax collecting agency arbitrarily in all the rulings side with itself and grant itself more and more powers outside it's scope.

Can it tell you how big or small your production can be? Ato says yes.
Can it tell you how you are to run your business and record methods? Ato says yes.
Can it tell you how much and what securty you must implement around your crops? Ato says yes.
Will it exempt requests to produce purposes of self consumption and not for resale? Ato says never.
Will it exempt requests to produce not for curing/self-consumption but for self use as pesticide and herbicide? No one applied yet.

Likely under prevailing attitude? I'll leave it to you to decide 

Only place I've seen the tax collector able to regulate itself. :x


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## chappo1970 (26/3/09)

Is that right BP. I mean of course it is but wow!? That's scary IMO.


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## pdilley (26/3/09)

Chappo said:


> Is that right BP. I mean of course it is but wow!? That's scary IMO.




Very scary, Aussies have given the ATO a 6 Pack of Beer and the keys to the family car!


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## vertigo (27/3/09)

Hi sammy,

I haven't filled out the paper work yet. But taking what you said into account, I pay tax, so why not. sending them back is just going to cost me more. Sorry if that upsets some people on the forum, but I pay tax for dole bluggers as well.


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## Jase71 (27/3/09)

vertigo said:


> I haven't filled out the paper work yet. But taking what you said into account, I pay tax, so why not. sending them back is just going to cost me more. Sorry if that upsets some people on the forum, but I pay tax for dole bluggers as well.



And you also pay tax for parent-bludgers, old-bludgers & retarded bludgers as well. As a taxpayer, it's regrettable that you don't have a say in where your mandatory salary tithe goes. I've missed the status of where you're at with this import, it appears that my english is failing me. But if you're at a point where the seeds have arrived, and you need to pay big dollars (and you may well) to have them irradiated & inspected, it's probably going to be in your best interest to tell Quarantine (I assume that's where it's falling under) to go screw themselves, and just buy a rhizome or two locally. 

It's pathetic if they hold humulus seeds as a threat to native species - I wholeheartedly agree with the preservation of our native parklands, but FFS are hops likely to be a noxious species ? Out of interest, are they are vegetative propogation plant or a seed-borne spreader by nature ?


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## chappo1970 (27/3/09)

Jase glad to see your back and ranting again! :lol: 

I disagree though. Ever heard of the CANE TOADS? PRICKLY PEAR? FOXES? RABBITS? CATS? DOGS? LANTANA? CITRUS RUST? TULIP TREES? Probably right what harm can they do?


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## dr K (27/3/09)

The answer is pretty simple, just don't do it.
Cultivation of hops from seed is very difficult and beyond the skills of most hobbyists.
First the seeds need to be viable, there are for example bag loads of papaver somniferum in bakers shops all round the country but as to there viability?
Assuming the seeds come from a supplier of viable seed you dont just plant then in some drills and wait. I cannot (sorry) remember the process but its tricky. Like many Australian natives the hop seed is dormant and need to be awoken, in a similar way to seeds that need fire or scarifying.
There is a reason why hops are grown from rhizomes!!
Apart from that AQUIS is there for a reason, a billion dollar reason, we have had enough bunnies screwing things up over the years...

K


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## chappo1970 (27/3/09)

Here, Here DrK

FFS we have enough to answer to our children for, yeah?


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## Jase71 (27/3/09)

Chappo said:


> Jase glad to see your back and ranting again! :lol:
> 
> I disagree though. Ever heard of the CANE TOADS? PRICKLY PEAR? FOXES? RABBITS? CATS? DOGS? LANTANA? CITRUS RUST? TULIP TREES? Probably right what harm can they do?



Dude, I agree with you. My best mate has dedicated his non-work life to bush regeneration, so it's a common topic when we get together. My question is more about the potential environmental hazard of the Humulus lupus. We can't assume it will (or won't) be a threat if left untended. 

Dr K's statement about propagation of the species would suggest that it's not going to be a major threat. Can ayone elaborate on the soil conditions required for hop growng vs the accomoding soil networks across australia ? 


And for the record, I threw a whole heap of papaver somniferum on my garden a couple of years ago, supermarket sourced, and they went truly nuts. While I like the idea of growing opium, I'm not comfortable with the idea that someone might just knock on my door one day and bust me for an S9 narcotic farm, so I pulled them out when they were seedlings.


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## chappo1970 (27/3/09)

I know Jase it was directed at vertigo, mate. I live on a major water way, the Logan River, and the amount of introduced pests is staggering hence why I find it... well plain... I'm gunna have to say ignorant to import seeds willy nilly with out regard because you pay taxes FFS. What does paying taxes have to do with it?


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## Jase71 (27/3/09)

Chappo said:


> What does paying taxes have to do with it?



Buggered if I know. I just saw an open window in which to bitch about the fiscal stimulaton.


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## chappo1970 (27/3/09)

Is that the one we REAL tax payer are paying for? I know me and my family haven't seen one red cent of it. But I digress, no?


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## dr K (27/3/09)

Will this become an argument about homeland security?


> potential environmental hazard of the Humulus lupus. We can't assume it will (or won't) be a threat if left untended.


crap, we must assume that the seeds will be a threat, viable seeds, or for that matter dead seeds or any form of organic material carries along with it other pests, other diseases, other virii.



> Dr K's statement about propagation of the species would suggest that it's not going to be a major threat



Crap (hey Jayse I love this idea of no censorship, sorry just joking, more crap indeed). read above.
And whilst I am at it


> mandatory salary tithe goes. I've missed the status of where you're at with this import, it appears that my english is failing me


Well clearly it is, unless of course you earn only around $300 a week taxable income, which probably places you in one of the "bludger" groups you so happily bludgeon.

K


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## chappo1970 (27/3/09)

dr K said:


> <snip>....bludgeon.
> 
> K




Well there's an idea?


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## Jase71 (28/3/09)

When our Nurseries, or for that matter, 'Variety Stores' such as Kmart, Big W et al have a legal requirement to stock only native,non-invasive species, then I will entertain your broad strokes concerning the blanket ban on importing seeds from overseas. 

This arguement actually goes a lot deeper. There's been a trend in recent years in people opting for 'native' landscapes gardens. The sad truth is that in most cases, they are as detrimental as the next door neighbour having a pretty little bergonia garden, because the plants chosen are not native to the local ecosystem in which they reside. There is a blatant disregard for local ecosystems and what can be sustained in bushland environs. A Native of the Central Cost is quite likely not going to be a Native of Sydney. (for the non NSW peeps, my urban name dropping is of locales only a couple of hubdred km's apart).


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## Jase71 (28/3/09)

dr K said:


> Well clearly it is, unless of course you earn only around $300 a week taxable income, which probably places you in one of the "bludger" groups you so happily bludgeon.



Hey I was simply inspired by Vertigo's off-handed comments. I won't rant on further on the topic of open -handed aussies in this thread (although most happy to do so on the pre-existing thread elsewheres - Ive already spend my RuddMoney on something so self-centered and self aggrandizing that a single cent will never, ever go back into the Australian economy  )


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## dr K (28/3/09)

> have a legal requirement to stock only native,non-invasive species, then I will entertain your broad strokes concerning the blanket ban on importing seeds from overseas.



For someone who is blatantly against censorship, government intervention and bludgers then that is a pretty brash comment.
I might also add that I have no interest or input into a so called blanket ban on seed importation of seeds, as such your entertainment or not is irrelevant.
There are widely available pamphlets under the banner of "Grow Me Instead" that are specific to locations and "suggest" that certain plants should not be grown in certai areas (in Canberra, Cootamundra Wattle, Qld Golden Wattle for example), this is not a legal requirement though you are suggesting it should be...
Begonias has quite happily live next to Grevilleas but as I am sure you are aware there grasses such as serrated tussock and worse Mexican Feather grass that have become a massive problem. Can you easily pick which is which, the Mexican feather grass or the native Stipa species, I cannot.
Of course none of this beer related but we all have other things in our life than beer.
We sit back in relative comfort and talk in hushed tones about our great trading partner Japan being the closest we ever got to invasion, we stick a torpeoded Jap mini sub outside our national war memorial like a head on traitors gate, suprise or children that Darwin was bombed and forget about all the other invasions, wave after wave.

K

K


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## jayse (28/3/09)

food for thought/argument, its quite easy to import seeds from amsterdam.


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## staggalee (28/3/09)

Only 28 days to go and it`s Anzac Day.

stagga.


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## bradmcm (28/3/09)

jayse said:


> food for thought/argument, its quite easy to import seeds from amsterdam.


When it's spring again,
I'll bring again,
Tulips From Amsterdam!


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## vertigo (28/3/09)

OK, I hope that this will be the end of this thread. I now know for sure that "seeds and so on are illegal imports." 

Thanks, lads.

PS: Don't even try it. You could, if you have heap of $$$.


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