# Lid And Airlock Or Clingwrap?



## thesunsettree (3/3/10)

hi all,

i've read a few times lately that some people use clingwrap with a pin hole instead of the lid and airlock. is there a reason/advantage to this? thanks in advance

matt


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## Ducatiboy stu (3/3/10)

Only people who attend Mardi Gras and wear pink dresses when they brew use airlocks... :icon_cheers: 

Glad wrap works well, and you dont have to clean it


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## bradsbrew (3/3/10)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Only people who attend Mardi Gras and wear pink dresses when they brew use airlocks... :icon_cheers:
> 
> Glad wrap works well, and you dont have to clean it




And you dont need to pin prick it, unless your rubber band seal is waterproof.


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## thesunsettree (3/3/10)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Only people who attend Mardi Gras and wear pink dresses when they brew use airlocks... :icon_cheers:
> 
> guess that explains why i use airlock  , at least the pink dress bit anyway.
> 
> matt


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## Wolfy (3/3/10)

I went to Madi Gras ... once.

My new temp-controlled fermentation fridge, _just _fits 2 fermenters with no additional room for airlocks, which is why I'll be going the non-hole-gladwrap route from now on.


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## DUANNE (3/3/10)

its six for one half dozen the other. i find doing ales i go the glad wrap but with a lager i use the lid and airlock. for me this is because an ale is fast and furious and you can see whats going on better, but with a lager everything happens slower and more subdued so some part of me just feels safer with an airlock and lid.probably bullshit but it works for me.


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## chappo1970 (3/3/10)

BEERHOG said:


> its six for one half dozen the other. i find doing ales i go the glad wrap but with a lager i use the lid and airlock. for me this is because an ale is fast and furious and you can see whats going on better, but with a lager everything happens slower and more subdued so some part of me just feels safer with an airlock and lid.probably bullshit but it works for me.



Ahhhh a Brewer after me own heart! Exactly my routine to a tee. Although I go the lid/airlock route mainly due to the time the actual lager brew is sitting around. So yeah agree feels safer.

Chap Chap


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## kelbygreen (3/3/10)

yep I am a gladwrapper now  few reasons. 1 is that you can see the brew. 2 I can fit 2 fermenters in the fridge. 3 when moving the fermenter with a airlock and you dont remove it all the water sucks in the fermenter  (I always forget that) 4 when bottling you can just bottle without touching or moving the fermenter one bit so it doesnt rouse up sediment.

but as said when i do a lager I will use a lid for peace of mind


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## RdeVjun (3/3/10)

I haven't used an airlock for yonks (for both lagers and ales), it is just so simple and effective with film, no hydro sample backwash risk either plus you get a neat inspection port. Sometimes the overall height of a fermenter and an airlock comes into the equation. I do know that switching to film helped me to fit four fermenters into a largish fridge instead of two. B) 
I'd skip the pinprick too, any condensation (and who on the eastern side of the country hasn't got some of that ATM?) that happens to drip on to the film will have an easy route into your beer after things subside and the film starts to sag- a huge and unnecessary infection risk. Like farts or burps, the gas will find its own way out eventually.


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## bum (3/3/10)

BEERHOG said:


> its six for one half dozen the other.



I agree with this but for one thing - part of my sanitation routine involves putting the lid back on and getting a good seal. Shits me to tears pulling the rubber ring in and out all the bloody time. My LHBS alleges he doesn't sell rings to fit my fermenter as he wants me to buy a whole new one instead.


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## absinthe (3/3/10)

Cling wrap all the way, use the catering stuff if you can get it though.. much thicker and 45cms wide so easier to seal on top. also i use the rubber seal from the lid as the rubber band.


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## RdeVjun (3/3/10)

bum said:


> I agree with this but for one thing - part of my sanitation routine involves putting the lid back on and getting a good seal. Shits me to tears pulling the rubber ring in and out all the bloody time. My LHBS alleges he doesn't sell rings to fit my fermenter as he wants me to buy a whole new one instead.


Hey bum, I have no idea where the lids to my fermenters are, let alone allow myself to be extorted by my LHBS over poxy 10c seals for them, so tell them to jamb that new fermenter somewhere dark and go hard with the film! B) 
I do sometimes use the seals to hold film in place though, but I'm so glad I don't have to get them in and out of their lid any more, what a frustrating PITA that was.


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## MarkBastard (3/3/10)

absinthe said:


> Cling wrap all the way, use the catering stuff if you can get it though.. much thicker and 45cms wide so easier to seal on top. also i use the rubber seal from the lid as the rubber band.



Yeah I've been thinking about doing this.

I too use cling wrap but I'm not really in love with it like others are. I don't think I'll use it again outside of a fermenting fridge. Did it in winter because my garage was a perfect 18 degrees 24/7 but I saw some fruit flies hanging around the fermenter and didn't really trust the glad wrap.

It also definitely sucks when you want to open it up mid-ferment for whatever reason.

I reckon glad wrap relies on the layer of co2 above the beer. Once fermentation has completed I find I run into problems if I want to keep it sitting around for more than a few days.


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## Nick JD (3/3/10)

I use an airlock a lot because I'm a little bit mezmerized by the whole...

...BLOOP




...BLOOP




....BLOOP














......... Is it finished? 



I'd better start a post of the AHB. 

"New Post" - HELP, MY FERMENTER HAS STOPPED BUBBLING!

Reply: Oh, **** off! 

...BLOOP



...BLOOP


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## big78sam (3/3/10)

Warning - stupid question follows...

Do you spray any no rinse sanitiser on the glad wrap or just stick it straight on???


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## bum (3/3/10)

Do you wash it before you put it on your food?


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## daemon (3/3/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> I reckon glad wrap relies on the layer of co2 above the beer. Once fermentation has completed I find I run into problems if I want to keep it sitting around for more than a few days.


What problems are these? I've left batches in the fermenter with the glad wrap on for three weeks without any issues.

I use glad wrap and the rubber seal from the lid to help hold it on. Works well and it's easy to clean so I'm happy. I don't spray it with sanitiser at all, but I do try to spray the inside of the fridge to try and eliminate any potential problems.


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## big78sam (3/3/10)

bum said:


> Do you wash it before you put it on your food?



No but I also don't sanitise my glass before drinking a glass of water, or my plate before eating a meal...

However, I do sanitise the inside of the lid of my fermenter...


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## Thommo (3/3/10)

I stick the lid on and rest a bottle cap over the hole where the airlock goes.


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## bum (3/3/10)

big78sam said:


> No but I also don't sanitise my glass before drinking a glass of water, or my plate before eating a meal...
> 
> However, I do sanitise the inside of the lid of my fermenter...



Do your glasses, water, plates, meals or fermenter lids come in hermetically sealed rolls of more gladwrap?


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## RdeVjun (3/3/10)

Lol Nick! There is a downside to film, the absence of the reassuring sound effects! 

I don't understand though M^B, if I want to open up a fermenter with film I firstly move it (usually from the fermenting fridge), undo the pipe cleaners or band holding the film on, lift it off and toss it, do whatever I need to do (usually dry hops) and replace it with a fresh sheet, return it to the fridge. When I used airlocks, I had to find somewhere clean to put the lid down, remove the airlock to stop backwash, move it, undo the lid (sometimes a struggle), put it down carefully, do what I needed to do, replace it all in reverse order plus top it up with airlock fluid. I always reckoned it was much easier with film? I usually found the airlock a PITA as most of the time to get the lid off it invariably had to be moved from the fridge and I couldn't do that without the above process to avoid backwash. Hydro samples are a breeze too, no need to bother about same.

Granted too though with film there is much less of a physical barrier for insects, I've had cockroaches nibble on it (a long story) and fruit flies do hang around a fermenter left out for whatever reason, however I don't think any of them have gone any further than just investigating it, the gassing effect seems to keep them at bay as there were no problems thereafter with those batches where I thought insects might've been an issue.

Edit: Clarity.


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## boingk (3/3/10)

> I stick the lid on and rest a bottle cap over the hole where the airlock goes.



We have a winner! Seriously though, this is what I do most of the time. THe other half I use one of those 3-piece airlocks as they are silent and I brew close to where I sleep (space constraints suck...).

- boingk


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## manticle (4/3/10)

bum said:


> Do your glasses, water, plates, meals or fermenter lids come in hermetically sealed rolls of more gladwrap?



Did the time and effort it took you to type that, exceed the time and effort required to type 'no'?

Yes.


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## Siborg (4/3/10)

I've done my latest brew with gladwrap just because. I've found I've missed the bloop bloop (lol, nick) but its been really cool to actually see the stuff brewing. It was going crazy the first day, then this thick layer of foam (krausen), then it settled back. Its like watching a 6 day movie that you keep walking away from and watching a few mins of each day and you know how its going to end! But the anticipation of what its going to taste like.... take an SG reading just so you can have a try.


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## Phoney (4/3/10)

Thommo said:


> I stick the lid on and rest a bottle cap over the hole where the airlock goes.



Sitting a 20c coin over the hole also works a treat.


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## warra48 (4/3/10)

I go the clingwrap routine most of the time. I've had ales under clingwrap for up to 4 weeks, with no ill effects.

I don't dare use it for weizens any longer, I use a blowoff tube, and a 3 litre collection bottle. 
After an experience where the kraeusen blew out through the top of the fermenter, messed up the inside of the fridge, and leaked out onto the floor, I think it wise not to tempt fate again. I didn't enjoy the cleaning up.


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## Barley Belly (4/3/10)

Gladwrap convert here

Started on lid, seal and airlock (bloop, bloop, bloop) Gave it the ass due to sanitation and height restrictions.

Then went to lid, no seal and bottle top on hole. Fixed sanitation and height restriction issues. Gained a "unable to see if it's pumping out Co2 issues"

Now on gladwrap, no pinprick and lid o-ring to hold it on. I'm only onto the first two brews under the new regime and I think I'm on a keeper. No sanitation, height or Co2 production issues AND I get the privilege of watching what my yeasties do their work. :icon_cheers:


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## zabond (4/3/10)

100% gladwrap,the easiest way to get the seal out of the lid to use for the gladwrap lid or sanitising it is to give the lid a good whack on your palm ,like playing a tamborine,might take a couple of hits but it'll pop out


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## Ross (4/3/10)

My fermenters have a handle in the lid that makes moving them around so much easier than the side handles, so there's no way I'd ever switch to glad wrap. Also try shaking a keg with a starsan mix for sanitising without a lid & as others have pointed out, try fitting a blow off tube to glad wrap - lol.

First thing I do is remove & dispose of the O'ring, not needed & a pain to clean.
Secondly, remove & discard airlock, not needed & a pain to move fermenter with it in place.
Thirdly, use the grommet hole to suspend your thermowell (modified keg diptube) for insertion of your temperature probe.

Cheers Ross


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## Batz (4/3/10)

I'm a glad wrap fan, I still have the lids and use them to shake the sanitizer in the fermenter. You notice how they leak when shaking without an o ring Ross? I always wear some sanitizer :lol: 

Everyone does it different in this hobby, that's one of the great parts of brewing.....do it your way !


Batz


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## Kleiny (4/3/10)

Nick JD said:


> I use an airlock a lot because I'm a little bit mezmerized by the whole...
> 
> ...BLOOP
> 
> ...



I use gladwrap because i like the clear window it gives me to actually watch my fermentation and know exactly what stage it is at without relying on a sometimes sealed correctly bloop!

Ross you are right about rinseing the fermentor and needing a lid, but i dont need a lid with my auto keg/fermenter washer.










But seriously what ever suit you is what you should use there is no right and wrong in this argument its all down to personnel preference. And personelly im a holden fan :blink: 

Kleiny


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## argon (4/3/10)

Just started using the glad wrap method... Won'tgo back to the airlock. Only reason I went to glad wrap is cause I stepped on my airlock when I was cleaninig a fermenter and smashed it up. One of those hard plastic ones from the supermarket. Did a great job of messing up my foot too.

Used to always worry about backwash through the airlock when moving, transferring, sampling etc. Now no worries at all. Get to have a look inside too.


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## MarkBastard (4/3/10)

Ross said:


> First thing I do is remove & dispose of the O'ring, not needed & a pain to clean.



That's what I was thinking, instead of glad wrap couldn't you just take out the o-ring from the lid and then screw the lid on but not tightly, and it'd work similar to how glad wrap does anyway?


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## Ross (4/3/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> That's what I was thinking, instead of glad wrap couldn't you just take out the o-ring from the lid and then screw the lid on but not tightly, and it'd work similar to how glad wrap does anyway?



Mark,

You can screw on as tightly as you like, it will never be airtight but keeps out the insects.

Cheers Ross


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## Batz (4/3/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> That's what I was thinking, instead of glad wrap couldn't you just take out the o-ring from the lid and then screw the lid on but not tightly, and it'd work similar to how glad wrap does anyway?




Except you can't see in the fermenter, which is the major advantage of glad wrap.

Batz


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## Nick JD (4/3/10)

I had no gladwrap once so I stretched a latex glove over the cube's opening and poked holes in the middle two fingers so for a week it did the Devil's Horns. 

That beer rocked.


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## WeaselEstateBrewery (4/3/10)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Only people who attend Mardi Gras and wear pink dresses when they brew use airlocks... :icon_cheers:



Was there an AHB float this year? :icon_chickcheers:


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## gava (4/3/10)

if there was looks like i'd be on it... I use airlocks.. each to their own I say...


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## MarkBastard (4/3/10)

Batz said:


> Except you can't see in the fermenter, which is the major advantage of glad wrap.
> 
> Batz



Although that is nice my fermenter sits in a bar fridge with no light and the glad wrap gets covered in condensation. So it's not the end of the world to lose the view.


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## manticle (4/3/10)

I tend to still use the lid because it's there and it's protective. Most of my lids are transparent and I can see krausen easily enough. I have used glad wrap in the past - both methods are sound to my mind.

I use the airlock because it's the easiest way to block the bung hoile - don't usually fill it though - just glad and a rubber band. Much less glas needed obviously. I'm about to switch to fermenting exclusively in no chill cubes as I'm trying to isolate the cause of some recent infections. During this time I will stop racking to secondary although I may start racking to bulk prime (don't usually as I'm already in the secondary vessel).


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## thanme (4/3/10)

Nick JD said:


> I had no gladwrap once so I stretched a latex glove over the cube's opening and poked holes in the middle two fingers so for a week it did the Devil's Horns.
> 
> That beer rocked.



That's rad  Did you get photos?


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## Pete2501 (4/3/10)

NME said:


> That's rad  Did you get photos?



Or a video?


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## BoilerBoy (4/3/10)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Only people who attend Mardi Gras and wear pink dresses when they brew use airlocks... :icon_cheers:
> 
> Glad wrap works well, and you dont have to clean it



I burned my airlock as a demonstratable symbol of brewing emancipation, but also still use the lid with a cap. 
Though I cant make it to the mardi gras surely this entitles me to wear a pink dress at least! :beerbang:

BB


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## jyo (7/3/10)

Chucked a brew on yesterday, and lazily left it sitting on the floor in the laundry, wrapped in a wet towel, cling wrap nicely stretched over the top, thick krausen foaming away.

Miss Aged 2 was found this morning with her hand through the top of the fermenter, toy plastic giraffe in the other hand.

I wonder what I'm going to find in the bottom when I keg this up!!! :lol:


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## Brewme (23/3/10)

Hi All,

I have started to use cling wrap on the current brew and like the idea. A silly question is: will the CO2 displace the air between the wort and the cling wrap as it does with lid & airlock?

Cheers


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## jimi (23/3/10)

Brewme said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I have started to use cling wrap on the current brew and like the idea. A silly question is: will the CO2 displace the air between the wort and the cling wrap as it does with lid & airlock?
> 
> Cheers



Yep, the CO2 produced is heavier than the 'air' and will push it out from underneath your glad wrap. I use a large rubber band to hold down the glad and the gas that 'normally' goes out the airlock finds a way out from the glad. Others I hear put a pin prick in their glad, I don't think it's necessary.


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## MarkBastard (23/3/10)

I have had much more success using glad wrap recently, because I went from using a double layer to a single layer. A single layer is much more manageable.


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## haysie (23/3/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> I have had much more success using glad wrap recently, because I went from using a double layer to a single layer. A single layer is much more manageable.


Try get your hands on that commercial stuff, Arthur had a bit of an offcut of a roll I seen in use, no screwing around with it aint wide enough, it aint quite thick enough etc etc. You would take this stuff to bed with you  It is super, the stuff they use to wrap pallets etc
I have used the crappy thin stuff and yeah it was a PITA, but did the job. Airlocks? I prefer blowoff tubes then clingwrap, then a hydro reading, but never an airlock. Saying that, I dont ferment with anything more than 10-20% headspace.


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## manticle (23/3/10)

Caterer's glad wrap is good if you can get a hold of it but I'm not sure about the coating on pallet shrink wrap being food safe.


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## MarkBastard (23/3/10)

manticle said:


> Caterer's glad wrap is good if you can get a hold of it but I'm not sure about the coating on pallet shrink wrap being food safe.



We shrink wrap our pallets with the black stuff which I definitely wouldn't use. Not sure if there's some other stuff.

But yeah caters stuff would be good. I was going to look but to be honest with a single layer I'm fine.


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## haysie (23/3/10)

manticle said:


> Caterer's glad wrap is good if you can get a hold of it but I'm not sure about the coating on pallet shrink wrap being food safe.



Not nitpicking. If it doesnt come in contact why would it need to be "foodsafe". Anyways


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## manticle (23/3/10)

haysie said:


> Not nitpicking. If it doesnt come in contact why would it need to be "foodsafe". Anyways



I'm not sure. I guess more of a worry was not knowing what they actually do coat it with (it does get something to help it grab). I use it a fair bit in one of my jobs and it definitely has some kind of 'fragrance'. That potentially means it's emitting some kind of chemical. Admittedly all plastic (including my fermenters) has some kind of odour.

I'm not saying don't use it - just that that would be my first question (ie what's on it?).


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## thesunsettree (23/3/10)

manticle said:


> I'm not sure. I guess more of a worry was not knowing what they actually do coat it with (it does get something to help it grab). I use it a fair bit in one of my jobs and it definitely has some kind of 'fragrance'. That potentially means it's emitting some kind of chemical. Admittedly all plastic (including my fermenters) has some kind of odour.
> 
> I'm not saying don't use it - just that that would be my first question (ie what's on it?).




hi guys,

we use this all the time at work its like glad wrap on steroids (i work in the fresh produce industry). we wrap pallets in it all the time albeit the fresh fruit and vege is in cartons most of the time - but not always. i'll check in the morning as to whether its foodsafe and cost etc. will let you know when i know, i dont think it is as 'see through' as the normal stuff (it certainly isnt opaque though) but it would certainly be more rugged, i don't think the stuff we use is any stickier than normal gladwrap but as it is denser it is probably easier to manage, ie doesnt fly around in the breeze etc.

cheers
matt

edited to say - isnt opaque


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## Wolfy (23/3/10)

haysie said:


> Not nitpicking. If it doesnt come in contact why would it need to be "foodsafe". Anyways


Condensation forms on the underside of the lid/clingwrap and then drips back into the fermenter - that would be enough 'contact' for me to question if it was "foodsafe" or not.


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## haysie (23/3/10)

Wolfy said:


> Condensation forms on the underside of the lid/clingwrap and then drips back into the fermenter - that would be enough 'contact' for me to question if it was "foodsafe" or not.



 Really? Maybe we put up a call for "competition placed cling wrappers versus yada yada" Just like NC vrs chillers, FFS?, get real Wolfy, you would be the first person too bet on both flies crawling up the wall and then take the postive side. Foodsafe FFS!


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## manticle (23/3/10)

If you've had success using it Haysie then that's great. It's a fair enough question for anyone considering it though don't you think?


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## haysie (23/3/10)

manticle said:


> If you've had success using it Haysie then that's great. It's a fair enough question for anyone considering it though don't you think?



I didnt think it was a question Manticle. Nevertheless I couldnt give a rats ass if Wolfy suffocated himself in the shite. Before blasting off about food grade get some experience.


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## manticle (23/3/10)

Mine was a question. I'd rather not fight with you online haysie (or really at all). We can talk about it over beer at the case swap.

As I said - I use the stuff to wrap pallets . Before using it for my beer I'd be interested to know what's in it. Fairly incongruous and not intended to cast aspersions on anyone who has or suggest their beer isn't up to scratch. I'd be the last person to do that without actually tasting it.

As for wolfy - I know neither of you so I won't enter that arena.


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## Wolfy (23/3/10)

manticle said:


> As for wolfy - I know neither of you so I won't enter that arena.


I was just playing devils-advocate and pointing out that there would be _some _interaction between a lid/wrap and whatever is fermenting inside - which is all that was asked. 
I doubt the plastic in my esky-mashtun is 'food safe' but I use it anyway.


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## Nick JD (24/3/10)

Wolfy said:


> I doubt the plastic in my esky-mashtun is 'food safe' but I use it anyway.



Oh dear. Have the Esky mash tun users not checked this out? That's funny :lol: . 

Mmmmmmm, boiled plasticizers .... can we all say, "Sperm Count"?


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## manticle (24/3/10)

Who boils their esky?


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## praxis178 (24/3/10)

manticle said:


> Who boils their esky?



You don't need to boil it, just get it reasonably hot/warm, so mashing would do, good thing there isn't any ethanol present, as it's a very good solvent for stripping BPA (#1 in the bad plasticizer listings) out of plastics.....

Hmmm, guess it's time to look for a SS mash tun. :blink:


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## bradsbrew (24/3/10)

I am a glad wrap and rubber band man, no hole, I will be sourcing a commercial size roll of cling wrap ( have already thought of a reason why I need to purchase). 

Although next time I use 3787 I will have to use a lid and blow off tube. 

Cheers


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## rendo (24/3/10)

Hello Everybody,

_*stands up*
_
My name is Rendo and I am a glad wrap addict too. I love it. I like how you can see straight into your brew, I like how it doesnt need washing. How you simply throw it away when done. There is no worry about if it is sealed or if it is fermenting. 

I miss the bloop bloop bloop, but I figure I can get a recording off the net somewhere and listen to it on my ipod when I am going to sleep. I imagine my dreams will be filled with beery bliss.

I have used glad wrap solidly now for 3 months and I wont be going back! Mardi Gras, pink skirts & airlocks are so 2000...!

_*holds up a roll of glap wrap, runs around in a circle, sits down and starts playing the didgeridoo(sp?) with the roll*
_



bradsbrew said:


> I am a glad wrap and rubber band man, no hole, I will be sourcing a commercial size roll of cling wrap ( have already thought of a reason why I need to purchase).
> 
> Although next time I use 3787 I will have to use a lid and blow off tube.
> 
> Cheers


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## MarkBastard (24/3/10)

rendo said:


> I miss the bloop bloop bloop



I used to make a certain type of liquid that required 6 litres of white sugar in a fermenter, with turbo yeast. I did this in a tiny granny flat and slept quite near it, needless to say I never need to hear an airlock again in my life. Or smell that smell that was created!


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## RobB (25/3/10)

Its time for another Devils advocate moment. I use cling wrap for all the reasons already mentioned, but I have often wondered about its oxygen permeability. There is still some debate about the suitability of PET for long term bottling and even HDPE containers for secondary fermenters. While I know nothing of the molecular structures, the thinness of cling film makes me think that it will be even more permeable than PET or HDPE containers.

I have noticed that over-ripe fruit (rockmelon especially) can stink out the fridge when wrapped in cling film and there are times when I swear I can smell my beer through the film even after active fermentation has finished.

Having a layer of denser-than-air CO2 over the beer will help, but molecular diffusion will occur and a permeable membrane will only slow this down, not stop it altogether.
The weight of anecdotal evidence on this forum seems to suggest that oxidation and staling isnt a concern with this method, so Im guessing that while oxygen probably is getting in, it isnt happening fast enough to be a concern. That pretty much answers my own question, but Id be interested to hear what others think.


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## QldKev (25/3/10)

Malty Cultural said:


> Its time for another Devils advocate moment. I use cling wrap for all the reasons already mentioned, but I have often wondered about its oxygen permeability. There is still some debate about the suitability of PET for long term bottling and even HDPE containers for secondary fermenters. While I know nothing of the molecular structures, the thinness of cling film makes me think that it will be even more permeable than PET or HDPE containers.
> 
> I have noticed that over-ripe fruit (rockmelon especially) can stink out the fridge when wrapped in cling film and there are times when I swear I can smell my beer through the film even after active fermentation has finished.
> 
> ...




Are you fermenting or storing your beer under gladwrap. Last time I checked when fermenting it is producing CO2 that excapes outwards from the fermentor. The cover is only in place to prevent airborn nasties dropping into the beer. 

QldKev


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## Fourstar (25/3/10)

Malty Cultural said:


> The weight of anecdotal evidence on this forum seems to suggest that oxidation and staling isn’t a concern with this method, so I’m guessing that while oxygen probably is getting in, it isn’t happening fast enough to be a concern. That pretty much answers my own question, but I’d be interested to hear what others think.



I'd trust the continual displacement of CO2 during fermentation is enough to put a foothold on excessive o2 entering your fermenter when using cling wrap. Either way, we ferment in plastic vessels which are permeable any way. Any long term storage in our fermenters WILL eventually oxidise our beers. This is also one reason why it is recommended to ferment sours in glass.

After all, the core reason for those using glad wrap or their original fermenter lid is not to combat oxidation but to avoid the use of an airlock and stop bacteria/yeast etc entering your precious wort/beer.

cheers! :icon_cheers:


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## komodo (25/3/10)

I'll use gladwrap for primary but not secondary.
I heard Dr Karl one day on JJJ talking about cling wrap and freezer bags and the reason when you defrost meat you always end up with a blood like solution on the OUTSIDE of the plastic.


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## pyrobrewer (25/3/10)

Grommet 95 cents
Airlock 2 bucks
Peace of mind... priceless


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## zebba (25/3/10)

pyrobrewer said:


> Grommet 95 cents
> Airlock 2 bucks
> Peace of mind... priceless


Personally I get more piece of mind from the gladwrap. No suck-back into the fermenter from the airlock, and the only time I need to "open" it is for a dryhop ('cause sometimes when the curiosity takes hold, I just HAVE to have a look!)


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## stm (25/3/10)

Clingwrap, no pinhole.


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## Dave70 (25/3/10)

Clingwrap and *THREE* pinholes.


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## pyrobrewer (25/3/10)

Zebba said:


> Personally I get more piece of mind from the gladwrap. No suck-back into the fermenter from the airlock, and the only time I need to "open" it is for a dryhop ('cause sometimes when the curiosity takes hold, I just HAVE to have a look!)




If you are worried about suck-back, yes we all somtimes forget, dont put water in at all!

Louis pasteur (the pasteuriser guy) showed that microorganisms cannot enter through a tortuous path (say an airlock) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Pasteur this experiment (scroll down to germ theory) was used as proof of germ theory - No water! stick a cotton wool ball in the top to keep out the ferrets.


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## manticle (25/3/10)

Never a pinhole, never a problem

EXCEPT

I just racked a dubbel that had several layers of glad and still several small beetles managed to find their way in so I'm starting to question the efficacy of the glad as a physical barrier. Still, a bit of beetle never hurt no-one.


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## haysie (25/3/10)

manticle said:


> Never a pinhole, never a problem
> 
> EXCEPT
> 
> I just racked a dubbel that had several layers of glad and still several small beetles managed to find their way in so I'm starting to question the efficacy of the glad as a physical barrier. Still, a bit of beetle never hurt no-one.



Beetle Beer! 
FWIW, i had a few years ago an infestation of earwigs, they were in everything, my mash tun lines, chiller, under the lid of the boiler, as it got hotter a few dropped in the wort, faark it i said, the boil will kill it? wont it?
In the end it was a great beer and for the life of me I couldnt pick the insects, yet their bare shells were thru out my gear. Still alive n punching!


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## AndrewQLD (25/3/10)

manticle said:


> Never a pinhole, never a problem
> 
> EXCEPT
> 
> I just racked a dubbel that had several layers of glad and still several small beetles managed to find their way in so I'm starting to question the efficacy of the glad as a physical barrier. Still, a bit of beetle never hurt no-one.



Beetle Juice Dubbel, nice. So long as they weren't those Rhino beetles, they stink :lol: 

Andrew


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## manticle (25/3/10)

Dubbel beetle? Betelguese dubbel? Some good names. Most certainly won't be tipping it - tastes like the best dubbel I've done so far in its elementary stages.

@Haysie: I bet there's people in the world who consider earwigs a delicacy. Maybe the proteins help with head retention?


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## bum (25/3/10)

manticle said:


> Dubbel beetle? Betelguese dubbel? Some good names. Most certainly won't be tipping it - tastes like the best dubbel I've done so far in its elementary stages.


 
I foresee dry beetling really taking off. 

I'm gonna go a little more lateral and suggest V-Dubbel. Put the word 'beetle' in the name and people will ask why. They never called them Soilent People for a reason.


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## pyrobrewer (25/3/10)

Wasnt there an english beer with a chicken in it?


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## bum (25/3/10)

Don't forget the cats in the cider!


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## hazard (25/3/10)

haysie said:


> In the end it was a great beer and for the life of me I couldnt pick the insects, yet their bare shells were thru out my gear. Still alive n punching!


Well maybe its time to make a wit, and use insect shells instead of rice hulls. Though th protein rest may disolve the carapace?


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## pyrobrewer (25/3/10)

hazard said:


> Well maybe its time to make a wit, and use insect shells instead of rice hulls. Though th protein rest may disolve the carapace?




There are always heaps of cicada shells on trees certain times of there year. and piles of dead moths under floodlights


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## manticle (25/3/10)

bum said:


> I foresee dry beetling really taking off.
> 
> I'm gonna go a little more lateral and suggest V-Dubbel. Put the word 'beetle' in the name and people will ask why. They never called them Soilent People for a reason.



I would tell them I named it after my mother's favourite car.

I would reach your lateralness but more laterally with lateralism rather than literalism.


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## Hatchy (23/4/10)

Is light likely to be an issue with cling wrap? I've got my 1st ever 2 batches going with glad wrap & I love being able to see inside. The problem I've got is that the bunnings fermenter which lives in the bath (next to a (north facing) window) doesn't have pink dress technology built into it. The 60L LHBS fermenter in the fermenting fridge is at mardi gras. Is it worth chucking a tea towel over the glad wrap to keep the light out? I'm also wondering why I've had an airlock & 2 grommets sitting in my sanitising bucket the last 2 brewdays but haven't sanitised the lid either time.

P.S. Bloop Bloop Bloop


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## Wolfy (23/4/10)

Hatchy said:


> Is light likely to be an issue with cling wrap?


No more or less than sitting your fermenter in the sunlight is going to be an issue anyway.
If green (or clear) glass does not protect against skunking I can't imagine that an opaque-off-white-plastic fermenter is going to do any better.
If you have to keep your beer or fermenting wort anywhere near UV, direct sunlight or florescent lights, I'd be covering the entire thing up as best I could.


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## rendo (23/4/10)

Hi Hatchy. 

I reckon you should goto the op shop, get the cheapest and sexiest dress u can find, that way you can dress up your fermenter and keep the sun out. I hope you give her a foxy name. Or maybe slap some sunscreen on the fermenter . THe cheapo homebrand stuff will do. Coconut oil? Add a drop to the brew!

You can always wear the dress when you arent brewing, if you are into that sort thing  

(or get another fridge  or a bigger fridge! So that means u have a 50L and a 23L brew going at the once?? That is ALOT of beer mate!)

rendo

I am a cling wrapper.....will the real slim shady please stand up? No pin holes...no beetles, just a brewing window of happiness :beerbang: . (no bloop bloop bloop  )



Hatchy said:


> Is light likely to be an issue with cling wrap? I've got my 1st ever 2 batches going with glad wrap & I love being able to see inside. The problem I've got is that the bunnings fermenter which lives in the bath (next to a (north facing) window) doesn't have pink dress technology built into it. The 60L LHBS fermenter in the fermenting fridge is at mardi gras. Is it worth chucking a tea towel over the glad wrap to keep the light out? I'm also wondering why I've had an airlock & 2 grommets sitting in my sanitising bucket the last 2 brewdays but haven't sanitised the lid either time.
> 
> P.S. Bloop Bloop Bloop


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## Siborg (23/4/10)

I've been cling wrapping my last few brews, but they have all domed up and gushed krausen everywhere. I've take to poking a hole with a tiny needle in the centre, but that hasn't helped the gushing... maybe I should drop the batch size by a litre or so.


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## brettprevans (23/4/10)

i decided to try this clingwrap caper recently.....
came out to check on my babies and saw little holes in the cling film..WTF? little _finger _sized holes. yes it appears my darling daughters have been in the outside room and thought it was fun to poke their fingers through the clingfilm. <_< 

with kittens in airlocks, cats in fermentors and finger holes through glad wrap, i think i might stick with lids.


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## JestersDarts (23/4/10)

citymorgue2 said:


> i decided to try this clingwrap caper recently.....
> came out to check on my babies and saw little holes in the cling film..WTF? little _finger _sized holes. yes it appears my darling daughters have been in the outside room and thought it was fun to poke their fingers through the clingfilm. <_<
> 
> with kittens in airlocks, cats in fermentors and finger holes through glad wrap, i think i might stick with lids.



Kittens and kids? - stick with lids.


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## Siborg (23/4/10)

JestersDarts said:


> Kittens and kids? - stick with lids.


Yeah, I'd stick with lids too. Or lock your fermentation room so the little ones can't get to it.


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## brettprevans (23/4/10)

Siborg said:


> Yeah, I'd stick with lids too. Or lock your fermentation room so the little ones can't get to it.


fellas the kitten/cats comment is a long running joke on AHB. its not specifically that i have had kittens/cats in my brewing gear.
outside room is locked. unless the wife goes in and the kids follow.... 

its all cool, i dont care. lids or clingwrap, so long as my beer comes out good


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## JestersDarts (23/4/10)

citymorgue2 said:


> fellas the kitten/cats comment is a long running joke on AHB. its not specifically that i have had kittens/cats in my brewing gear.
> outside room is locked. unless the wife goes in and the kids follow....
> 
> its all cool, i dont care. lids or clingwrap, so long as my beer comes out good



I was merely making a friday rhyme - must been missed.. -_-


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## enoch (23/4/10)

After having this happen to me...



Glad wrap is looking pretty good. 
That is at the 12 hour mark of 50 litres of stout dropped on top of the yeast cake from a previous ale. Fermenter is 60 litre so I thought I had a bit of head room. 

Took a 10 litre bucket of foam off and it was back to this in another few hours...


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## MarkBastard (23/4/10)

jesus christ hahaha.

BTW I started as a glad wrapper but didn't really like it and was gunna give it up, but since going to single layer only I love it and won't ever change.

DO NOT USE TWO LAYERS! trust me. You don't need to.


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