# Id'ing Hop Flowers



## Dazza_devil (3/11/09)

G'day Brewers,
I've had some hops growing over the kids swings in the backyard for a few years now. I grew them from seed for their medicinal properties before I began brewing but have no idea what sort they are. Is it possible to ID them by the flower and their aroma?
Cheers


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## Steve (3/11/09)

Boagsy said:


> G'day Brewers,
> I've had some hops growing over the kids swings in the backyard for a few years now. I grew them from seed for their medicinal properties before I began brewing but have no idea what sort they are. Is it possible to ID them by the flower and their aroma?
> Cheers



A photo may help when they do actually flower. Where did you get the seeds from? Ive never heard of anyone growing them from seeds rather than rhizome. What where you going to use them for before you began brewing.
Cheers
Steve


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## chappo1970 (3/11/09)

I wouldn't have a clue to be honest. Aroma can be deceiving. I guess you could try a botanist?




Boagsy said:


> ...I grew them from seed for their medicinal properties...




Medicinal you say??? :huh:


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## reviled (3/11/09)

Of course you can grow hops from seeds, its just quite difficult apparantly!!


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## white.grant (3/11/09)

This site may be of some help

http://www.americanhopmuseum.org/varieties.htm

cheers

grant


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## Dazza_devil (3/11/09)

I'll certainly post a pic when they are in bloom, they have a rather nice aroma. I got them from Phoenix Seeds in Snug Tasmania but they no longer have them on their catalogue unfortunately. My first attempt to sprout them from seed failed with not one germinating. Determined to succeed I bought another pack and from memory I scarified the seeds somehow. I ended up with about 8 or so females and a male which didn't come back up last year, perhaps the rhizome rotted. The girls are looking very healthy this year and I'm looking forward to using them in a brew.
Medicinally I intended on using them as a relaxant and sleep tonic in a tea, they are also said to aid digestion.
I once found the dried flowers to be rather relaxing when smoked, given it's closest relative I'm not surprised.
There are major differences in the appearance of the various strains of hop flowers though aren't there?
Looks like Homer is onto some Panama flowers there Chappo.


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## Dazza_devil (3/11/09)

Grantw said:


> This site may be of some help
> 
> http://www.americanhopmuseum.org/varieties.htm
> 
> ...


Thanks Grant.
The cones look a little like the Liberty ones pictured, they are short fat and rounded, but the calyxes are different and more like the crystal ones and the petals are larger like the Crystal ones also. A bit like these,


I've emailed Phoenix Sedds in the hope they may recall.


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## lochrockingbeers (3/11/09)

Given they grew from seeds, the identity could only be confirmed if you knew what variety of male plant pollinated what female plant variety. DNA testing is probably your only option of an accurate determination. It could be some kind of wild cross too.


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## chappo1970 (3/11/09)

Boagsy said:


> ...Looks like Homer is onto some Panama flowers there Chappo.



Homer? :huh: 

That's a self portrait I did while I was "self medicated". IIRC it was something purple from PNG


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## Tim (3/11/09)

lochrockingbeers said:


> Given they grew from seeds, the identity could only be confirmed if you knew what variety of male plant pollinated what female plant variety. DNA testing is probably your only option of an accurate determination. It could be some kind of wild cross too.



I don't know how useful DNA testing would be as basically all hops belong to the same species and my understanding is that environmental factors are what has given rise to different varieties. I'm happy to be proven wrong though.


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## Dazza_devil (3/11/09)

Chappo said:


> IIRC it was something purple from PNG


I'm pretty sure that's caused by a magnesium deficiency.


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## Dazza_devil (3/11/09)

lochrockingbeers said:


> Given they grew from seeds, the identity could only be confirmed if you knew what variety of male plant pollinated what female plant variety. DNA testing is probably your only option of an accurate determination. It could be some kind of wild cross too.


Hopefully Phoenix seeds may be able to shed some light on the source of it's parents. I think they have organically certified gardeners send some of their seeds in so tracing it back that way could prove quite difficult also. According to their catalogue - 'seed and relevant information from a variety of sources, including; an organic seed growers network; Australian seed producers and overseas suppliers, is brought together by the way of their catalogue'. If all attempts fail I get to call them what I want.




Tim said:


> I don't know how useful DNA testing would be as basically all hops belong to the same species and my understanding is that environmental factors are what has given rise to different varieties. I'm happy to be proven wrong though.


Pretty sure DNA testing can go beyond species, after all we are all Homo Sapiens with subspecies sapiens, idaltu and apparently another, now extinct. The fact that hops are dioecious could be an advantage. I think the authorities can use genetical testing on it's cousin to trace it's sources so who knows.


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## Dazza_devil (4/11/09)

Well the seed supplier has replied and they have no idea on the variety and no longer have access to the resource.
I reckon DNA testing would cost a fortune so I reckon I'll post a pic when they are in bloom and see what we can come up with.


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## Nick JD (4/11/09)

Boagsy said:


> Well the seed supplier has replied and they have no idea on the variety and no longer have access to the resource.
> I reckon DNA testing would cost a fortune so I reckon I'll post a pic when they are in bloom and see what we can come up with.



You could get a fair idea by getting their oil ratios tested. That would give you a "fingerprint" that would at least narrow it down. 

It would also help you formulate recipes for their use. 

Here's Amarillo's specs:

*Alpha Acid *8 - 11% w/w
*Beta Acid *6 - 7% w/w
*Cohumulone *21 - 24 of alpha acids
*Total Oil *1.5 - 1.9 mls/100 grams
*Myrcene *68 - 70% of whole oil
*Humulene *9 - 11% of whole oil
*Carophyllene *2 - 4% of whole oil
*Farnesene *2 - 4% of whole oil

And Admiral:

*Alpha Acid:* 13.0 - 16.0% w/w 
*Beta Acids:* 4.8 - 6.1% w/w 
*Co-Humulone:* 37 - 45% of alpha acids 
*Total Oil:* 1.0 - 1.7 mls/100 grams 
*Myrcene: *39- 48% of whole oil 
*Humulene:* 23 -26% of whole oil 
*Caryophyllene:* 6.8 - 7.2% of whole oil 
*Farnesene:* 1.8 - 2.2% of whole oil


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## Dazza_devil (4/11/09)

Nick JD said:


> You could get a fair idea by getting their oil ratios tested. That would give you a "fingerprint" that would at least narrow it down.
> 
> It would also help you formulate recipes for their use.
> 
> ...




I see what you mean Nick, where would you get something like that done?


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## Supra-Jim (4/11/09)

Simple and fun but hardly scientific test would be a SMASH beer with the hops once they've flowered! Then hand out bottles to a few experienced brewers/tasters and see what feedback you get.

Cheers SJ


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## jbirbeck (4/11/09)

Supra-Jim said:


> Simple and fun but hardly scientific test would be a SMASH beer with the hops once they've flowered! Then hand out bottles to a few experienced brewers/tasters and see what feedback you get.
> 
> Cheers SJ



+1 but perhaps do a rub and smell and 'taste' (hop tea perhaps) of the hops before putting into a beer as if its come from seed it may not be any particular variety and the flowers may not have properties suited to making beer...


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## Nick JD (4/11/09)

Boagsy said:


> I see what you mean Nick, where would you get something like that done?



Not sure. Some place with gas chromatography gear. Probably a food industry chemical analysis specialist company. Probably expensive. I suppose the commercial growers/suppliers would have to send their flowers out each year to testing companies.

Jim's idea is probably the best. Make some beer. You might have yourself a nice cross breed, "Boagsy Saaz".


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## Isuxius (6/11/09)

You could try Ross from Craftbrewer. I seem to remember him posting in a thread here that he could work out the hop type by smell??


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## Online Brewing Supplies (6/11/09)

Isuxius said:


> You could try Ross from Craftbrewer. I seem to remember him posting in a thread here that he could work out the hop type by smell??


I heard he could predict the sex of your unborn child as well ??  
GB


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## Isuxius (7/11/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> I heard he could predict the sex of your unborn child as well ??
> GB




By Smell??


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## Dazza_devil (7/11/09)

Rooting Kings said:


> +1 but perhaps do a rub and smell and 'taste' (hop tea perhaps) of the hops before putting into a beer as if its come from seed it may not be any particular variety and the flowers may not have properties suited to making beer...




As I recall last seasons buds had a delicious aroma, I have no doubt they will be good in a brew but I'll make a tea from them first as you suggest. That may give me some idea as to how much to use and I'll taste test the wort as I progress through the boil. I wasn't aware that there was a hop variety that isn't any good for use in brewing, true? What style of beer would be best to test them in, a pale ale or perhaps something with a slightly darker malt flavour? I guess a Pale Ale could turn out as an IPA, might even dry hop with it yet.


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## The Scientist (7/11/09)

Boagsy said:


> G'day Brewers,
> I've had some hops growing over the kids swings in the backyard for a few years now. I grew them from seed for their medicinal properties before I began brewing but have no idea what sort they are. Is it possible to ID them by the flower and their aroma?
> Cheers



Hops grown from seed are known as wild hops and are not going to fall into any cultivar group. e.g. Simcoe, POR, EKG.

The reason for this is that these varieties are taken from a parent plant which does not produce seed and can only be replicated via a cutting. 

The hops you have may still be good for brewing but It depends on your local environment and the genetic traits which the parent plant which these seeds came from.

The way new varieties are produced is through selective cross pollination breeding.

I'd give them a go if they smell ok, as you won't know the AA rating without tests you could just use them as an aroma addition and see if you like the result.

All of the above info just came out of my head, so I'd Google 'wild hops' before you take it as gospel.

Cheers and let us know what results you get :icon_cheers:


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## Dazza_devil (15/2/10)

Well it turns out that the male isn't dead after all. It's gone berko and now there are male flowers all through my crop. It appears to have flowered a bit earlier than the female buds which on the whole are just starting to develop although some are maturing. 
My question is how will this affect the quality of my female flowers if they have been pollinated. Will the result be the similar to that of the hop's close relative? I was hoping for sinsemella.


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## Dazza_devil (20/2/10)

Here's some pics of my babies. 
I reckon I'll still get a crop off them to use in a brew.


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## Dazza_devil (20/2/10)

And here's a pic of the male for anyone who's never seen one in flower.


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