# Questions about Homebrew Legality in Queensland



## evildrakey (1/3/16)

Okay... One for those amateur lawyers out there...

I'm at an event (as part of the non-brewing club I belong too) where they've charged a ticket for the event.
The ticket covers accomodation, entertainment, food, etc... All above board.

How, if I decide to setup a tent and give away about 20 corny kegs of beer and cider how legal is that.
It's unlicenced, I'm not charging in any way and am actually giving it away, serving it responsibly.

If the Queensland Police pop in for another reason and see this, am I breaking any laws? To be ABSOLUTELY clear, I'm receiving no financial compensation whatsoever from the event, or attendees, apart from hugs and undying adoration.

Am I good, or is this a bad idea?


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/3/16)

Illegal

the ATO will want to have a chat, as will the QLD Police

Homebrew is for personal consumption


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## earle (1/3/16)

There's other threads on topics similar to this. Somebody may be able to point you in the right direction or you might need to search for a bit.

2 things though:
You say you're serving it responsibly - do you have RSA?
You've made it absolutely clear to us that you're receiving no financial compensation but the police or liquor licensing might not accept that especially if you've got 20 cornies, might take a bit to convince them that you're just giving it away.


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## evildrakey (1/3/16)

Yes, will have QLD RSA by then.


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/3/16)

evildrakey said:


> It's unlicenced,


There is your answer


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## evildrakey (1/3/16)

earle said:


> There's other threads on topics similar to this. Somebody may be able to point you in the right direction or you might need to search for a bit.
> 
> 2 things though:
> You say you're serving it responsibly - do you have RSA?
> You've made it absolutely clear to us that you're receiving no financial compensation but the police or liquor licensing might not accept that especially if you've got 20 cornies, might take a bit to convince them that you're just giving it away.


We'll only have 6 taps on per night for 3 night... I'm sure the rest can be distributed amongst peoples tents...
And yes, ABSOLUTELY CRYSTAL CLEAR. We're doing it for the love


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## tavas (1/3/16)

Doesn't matter whether you sell it or not. You need a licence to sell or supply.

https://www.business.qld.gov.au/industry/liquor-gaming/liquor/liquor-wine-licensing/licence-permit-applications


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## crowmanz (1/3/16)

see this thread http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/84903-what-licence-insurance/

Victorian info but might find some info in there that helps. You will probably need to get a licence for the event.


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## wide eyed and legless (1/3/16)

They could argue that as you are part of the (non brewing club) that the cost of the beer is in the cost of the ticket and you are allegedly, making some financial gain. With a moniker like 'evil' not exactly low profile for doing something above board. h34r:


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## evildrakey (1/3/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> They could argue that as you are part of the (non brewing club) that the cost of the beer is in the cost of the ticket and you are allegedly, making some financial gain. With a moniker like 'evil' not exactly low profile for doing something above board. h34r:


We'll actually be able to cover that as the event will have a proper financial report produced for it. We can easily prove that.
And the 'evil' is a joke because everyone comments on how nice I actually am. Like calling a short guy 'lofty'...


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## Liam_snorkel (1/3/16)

just serve them in a gift basket with a floral arrangement:

https://www.business.qld.gov.au/industry/liquor-gaming/liquor/liquor-wine-licensing/licence-permit-applications/exemptions

h34r:


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/3/16)

Even if you give it away, the ATO are not going to be very enthusiastic about what you plan to do

Either way, I would definately not be doing it.

Could end up very, very expensive on your part.


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/3/16)

evildrakey said:


> We'll actually be able to cover that as the event will have a proper financial report produced for it. We can easily prove that.
> ..


They wont care about that. You are an unlicenced producer and distributor, and you wont have paid excise, regardless of your motives or charity


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## Dave70 (1/3/16)

Liam_snorkel said:


> just serve them in a gift basket with a floral arrangement:
> 
> https://www.business.qld.gov.au/industry/liquor-gaming/liquor/liquor-wine-licensing/licence-permit-applications/exemptions
> 
> h34r:



nursing homes
retirement villages


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## wide eyed and legless (1/3/16)

evildrakey said:


> And the 'evil' is a joke because everyone comments on how nice I actually am. Like calling a short guy 'lofty'...


I can run with that, they used to call me,'Hop Head' nothing to do with the beer I drank, but how many buds I could get into a cone.


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## Dave70 (1/3/16)

evildrakey said:


> We'll actually be able to cover that as the event will have a proper financial report produced for it. We can easily prove that.
> And the 'evil' is a joke because everyone comments on how nice I actually am. Like calling a short guy 'lofty'...


Yeah. They use to call me 'not that ******* arsehole'. 
Ha ha. What a bunch of kidders..

I think.


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## MaltyGoodness (1/3/16)

If the event is private and you are not charging for beer or for entry then you don't need a permit. I supplied a keg for something like this a few years ago.

If they are charging for entry then that doesn't qualify. I think event organisers might need a Community liquor permit.

https://ablis.business.gov.au/qld/pages/65877070-5fa4-49de-be98-c0b9deb0691a.aspx


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## mxd (1/3/16)

Call it a beer comp and all the punters are judges 


As there is a cost for entry I think u would be in trouble


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## Yob (1/3/16)

Yep, you will need a temporary liquor licence to serve, even then there are limitations like 100ml cups and shit like that


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## S.E (1/3/16)

Would it make any difference if the event was advertised BYO and the OP didn’t serve? Just allowed his fellow club members to pour their own from his kegs, didn’t serve it himself so peeps just helped themselves?

Would it be any different from a group going to a BYO buffet restaurant and sharing someone’s home brew?


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## SBOB (1/3/16)

perhaps setup a bowling alley, and setup the ball return to return the balls with beer in the finger holes.... worked for the beer baron


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## Blind Dog (1/3/16)

Talk to the local council that covers the area in which the event will be held, and talk to the liquor licensing people at the state government. They'll tell you what licences and permissions you need, what restrictions you need to observe and so on. If it looks like you'll get past the local and state requirements, talk to the ATO. They should be fine if there was no money involved and the quantities small, but may have issues as there's an entry fee to the event and the quantity suggests something more than say a club trying to get new members. Be as open as possible, provide full disclosure to all bodes you talk to, and ensure you understand and strictly adhere to any conditions. If you can't get them to provide you with written responses, keep notes, get the name of the person you spoke to and the call reference number if there is one.

It'll take time and effort, and you may end up not being able to do it, but make sure you get it right. The fines and penalties for getting it wrong are draconian.


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## Danscraftbeer (1/3/16)

Good thread. Non profit things. Events. Free craft beer, foods etc. All in good will more than anything.
Sounds so good. Maybe too good to be true! - Enter Politics.

To the opening post I say Legend!


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## TheWiggman (1/3/16)

... what?


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## spog (1/3/16)

I'm not a Legal reps arsehole but surely this a least would be covered under the food and beverage act.
No producers licence/ accreditation so no indemnity so total accountability .
Don't go in blind,cover your arse by not doing it.


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/3/16)

Some stuff on excise

Whilst it is not crystal clear in your exact situation ( effectively you are giving away home brew )

https://austaxpbr.com.au/document/PBR_1012541265163

http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?Docid=SAV/ALCOHOL/00001&PiT=99991231235958

Unless you can come up with a precedent, the ATO will not take kindly to you


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## Droopy Brew (1/3/16)

While the excise point is valid I dont see a bespeckled ATO officer out and about during weekends looking to bust a homebrewer- they have bigger fish to fry. The cops are the ones you would need to worry about.

If in a small town, liberally dose the sergeant with said homebrew. If it is good stuff your will be left alone and the community will reap the rewards of your toil and diligance. If it is headache inducing fusal shit then the copper will liekly come a knockin and the community will be saved .




* The above may or maynot betyped wile isa adrunkkkkkkkkkkkk,


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/3/16)

Droopy Brew said:


> While the excise point is valid I dont see a bespeckled ATO officer out and about during weekends looking to bust a homebrewer- they have bigger fish to fry. The cops are the ones you would need to worry about.


They say the same thing about fishing inspectors

Unless you get EVERYTHING in writing you would be a fool to attempt it.

And you can bet your balls that someone will complain about it ( especially brewery reps, bottle shop owners..etc...... and dont think for a minute that they wont )


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## Danscraftbeer (1/3/16)

Darn our modern day to condemn such sharing of goodness.


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/3/16)

It sucks, but that is how it is


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## Rodolphe01 (1/3/16)

I don't know enough about liquor licensing, but under the Food Act 2006 you'd require a food business licence (beer/drinks etc are food) where you (by definition) manufacture the beer you want to give away.

You don't need a food licence to sell drinks (give away is included in the definition of sell by the way), however you'd need the manufacturing licence.


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## sp0rk (1/3/16)

SBOB said:


> perhaps setup a bowling alley, and setup the ball return to return the balls with beer in the finger holes.... worked for the beer baron


You're out there somewhere Beer Baron, and I'll find you
"No you won't!"


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## Droopy Brew (1/3/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> They say the same thing about fishing inspectors
> 
> Unless you get EVERYTHING in writing you would be a fool to attempt it.
> 
> And you can bet your balls that someone will complain about it ( especially brewery reps, bottle shop owners..etc...... and dont think for a minute that they wont )


Yeah but nahhh. Fisheries inspectors are out there on weekends- that is their job- catch people flouting fisheries laws.

ATO staff couldnt give a flying flapadoodles flapdoodle about some bloke pumping some a couple of cornies with a bronco tap. Sure it is illegal in their eyes and if in the rare instance they were overbooked for the DnD group and were forced to wander the great outdoors they happened upon it they might do something but more than likely they would grab a plastic cup and grab a free beer.

If you think a concerned citizen might be an issue, I challenge you to give the ATO a call on a weekend and see how long you can listen to Greensleeves.


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## Rambo (1/3/16)

I'm getting married in September and plan on giving away several kegs of homebrew on the night. I don't see how this is much different if he isn't charging anyone. Legal, probably not. But I reckon it would have to be an arsehole cop or a really out of control party for you to get any slack.

and how do we get an invite?


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/3/16)

A wedding is a private event

The OP's is a public event


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/3/16)

Droopy Brew said:


> Yeah but nahhh. Fisheries inspectors are out there on weekends- that is their job- catch people flouting fisheries laws.
> 
> ATO staff couldnt give a flying flapadoodles flapdoodle about some bloke pumping some a couple of cornies with a bronco tap. Sure it is illegal in their eyes and if in the rare instance they were overbooked for the DnD group and were forced to wander the great outdoors they happened upon it they might do something but more than likely they would grab a plastic cup and grab a free beer.
> 
> If you think a concerned citizen might be an issue, I challenge you to give the ATO a call on a weekend and see how long you can listen to Greensleeves.


Guess you could tell that to the guys up here that got done by the ATO for sly grog.....


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## Black n Tan (1/3/16)

Just moved the swear jar from on top of the kegerator.


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## Droopy Brew (1/3/16)

More details Stuart. Was this persistant sly grogging?

Being Grafton, Im sure the ATO pay special attention to those profiting from the distribution of inebriating substances.


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## Bribie G (1/3/16)

Home brewing was legalised in Australia under Prime Minister Gough Whitlam's Labor government in 1973 – in fact, the home-brew law was one of the very first among a raft of new legislation introduced by the highly reformist regime. Before that, it had been legal to make beer at home but only if it was around 1 per cent alcohol (in other words, gnat's bladder weak).

The exact wording of the new law introduced under Whitlam allows home brewers to make 22 litres of beer per week


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/3/16)

Droopy Brew said:


> More details Stuart. Was this persistant sly grogging?
> 
> Being Grafton, Im sure the ATO pay special attention to those profiting from the distribution of inebriating substances.


You are missing the point


The Op is going to do it out in the open at a public event......


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## Droopy Brew (1/3/16)

And the ATO is the least of his concerns...


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## Danscraftbeer (1/3/16)

Bribie G said:


> Home brewing was legalised in Australia under Prime Minister Gough Whitlam's Labor government in 1973 – in fact, the home-brew law was one of the very first among a raft of new legislation introduced by the highly reformist regime. Before that, it had been legal to make beer at home but only if it was around 1 per cent alcohol (in other words, gnat's bladder weak).
> 
> The exact wording of the new law introduced under Whitlam allows home brewers to make 22 litres of beer per week


at how much %? Gotta get these details yunno. :chug:

edited: because of something wtf?


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/3/16)

Droopy Brew said:


> And the ATO is the least of his concerns...


Says you


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## LAGERFRENZY (2/3/16)

So any Commercial Event Organiser is going to seriously compromise his/her Public Liability Insurance responsibility to cover for an unliscensed and unregulated Alcohol provider. Standing behind and dispensing these 20 Kegs are either Santa's helpers or fully paid staff members who are also required to be covered by OHS and Workers Compensation provisions. If you do have 20 kegs then you can afford the advice of a Solicitor. Most sober ones would strictly advise you to get your hand off it.


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## evildrakey (2/3/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> You are missing the point
> 
> 
> The Op is going to do it out in the open at a public event......


It's not fully public - it's a hobby club. Still need membership and conform to club's rules...


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## Liam_snorkel (2/3/16)

this makes me wonder what homebrew clubs do when they hire venues. there's a membership fee, and 'free' grog. Maybe shoot an email to BABBs or something?


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## Ducatiboy stu (2/3/16)

evildrakey said:


> It's not fully public - it's a hobby club. Still need membership and conform to club's rules...


Is it ONLY for club members ?

Is it part of another event


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## droid (2/3/16)

you have to find out through the relevant authorities - there's a lot of questions and *scenario's, I'd be asking myself about possible consequences of filling cups with alcohol in them

it might be as simple as getting a weekend license to serve alcohol at an event, Yob has gone through it here in VIC...

let us know what you do and how it goes eh

it is a pity we can't just set-up and do these things but *it just takes one person to start a drunken fight or throw up on some coppas boots or get food poisoning from the fish they had the night before but blame it on your beer, someone underage get run over on their way home drunk - hope for the best, expect (and plan) for the worst


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## Mardoo (2/3/16)

Yep, droid's right. You have to talk to whomever controls alcohol licensing up there. If word gets out that you've been doing something they consider to be against the law they'll bend you over, reach far up your ass, and extract a few thousand dollars. They can also ban you from the liquor industry for life, so if you've any dreams of brewing professionally they can take that away from you. So, make a few phone calls, or bend over and open wide. Up to you.

However this thread COULD be helpful in working out how you're going to phrase things, which is very, very important when dealing with regulating bodies.


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## droid (2/3/16)

QLD specific

https://www.business.qld.gov.au/industry/liquor-gaming/liquor


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## droid (2/3/16)

looks like here (VIC) at least you'd need a club licence

http://www.vcglr.vic.gov.au/home/liquor/new+applicants/select+the+right+liquor+licence/select_the_right_club_licence


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## Ducatiboy stu (2/3/16)

If you are holding the function at a private premises, not selling it, you would be OK

If your are in a public place and are, in general, part of an event ( or even associated with an event ) then you will need licencing ( regardless if only "Members" are drinking the beer )

As far as Excise goes, you will have to pay, and its not simply a matter of going to the ATO and saying " I have 200ltrs of beer at 5%, how much excise do I need to pay " The ATO are anal about excise and your gear for measuring volume will NEED to be calibrated by a NATA lab.


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## wide eyed and legless (2/3/16)

Guideline 31 Gratuitous supply of liquor (QLD)


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## MaltyGoodness (2/3/16)

Check the "Community liquor permit - Queensland"

"Community liquor permits are often required by unlicensed organisations who wish to sell or supply liquor on a temporary or one-off occasion. These permits are often used for school fetes, rodeos and sporting events in Queensland only."

Details here - https://ablis.business.gov.au/qld/pages/65877070-5fa4-49de-be98-c0b9deb0691a.aspx

Online application - https://secure.olgr.qld.gov.au/forms/clp


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## wynnum1 (2/3/16)

If you are charging entrance fee then it would be a business or undertaking and would come under workplace health and safety laws you are a PCBU..


A *PCBU* is the legal entity operating a business or undertaking. A *PCBU* may be an individual person or an organisation conducting a business or undertaking.


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## Yob (2/3/16)

QLD may be different but.

to do similar here, we need a temporary liquor licence, and our own public liability insurance, we were not covered by the event organisers.

If it's a ticketed event, it comes under "implied sales" and you will require a temp licence to serve, all serving needs to be done by RSA certified people, you need to display the Liquor Licence and you also need to have on offer free water.


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## Killer Brew (2/3/16)

MaltyGoodness said:


> Check the "Community liquor permit - Queensland"
> 
> "Community liquor permits are often required by unlicensed organisations who wish to sell or supply liquor on a temporary or one-off occasion. These permits are often used for school fetes, rodeos and sporting events in Queensland only."
> 
> ...


lol at school fetes


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## Ducatiboy stu (2/3/16)

You are still going to have issues with the "production side of things"

You have produced beer ( or any excisable product ), so the ATO will want its cut.

You will find those permits are more in line with sale/supply of commercial beer which has already had excise paid, not homebrew. You could say that you are selling store bought beer, bit if you get caught, all sorts of shit will go down

And it only takes one bloke to see you do it. 

Its not a simple case of " We are just giving it away, so it should be legal "


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## Ducatiboy stu (2/3/16)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Guideline 31 Gratuitous supply of liquor (QLD)


This is more geared to a Licensed premises that wants to remain open after trading hours to serve Alc for a private function. The OP wont be using a "Licensed " premises per-say

The Commissioner for Liquor and Gaming may approve a part or parts of the licensed premises, which are ordinarily used for the business of the licence, as an area in which gratuitous supply may be allowed to take place after approved trading hours.
The types of circumstances that would be considered for approval on specific occasions are when the licensee can demonstrate that a special event, such as a staff party, is planned or the licensee is hosting a private function with friends or family.
_Re-issued 24 January 2013_
_(Issued 17 May 1999; re-issued 27 August 2001; re-issued 22 May 2009)_


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## Bomber Watson (2/3/16)

Maybe contact craftbrewer, how they ran the Queensland homebrew conference wasn't all that different to what the op is proposing, gave away home brew to ticket holders on several occasions.

Cheers.


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## GalBrew (2/3/16)

What happens with the Highland games Yob? The ATO is not involved in that is it?


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## crowmanz (2/3/16)

The ATO has sent Liam Neeson on a special assignment to hunt down Yob.


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## Yob (2/3/16)

GalBrew said:


> What happens with the Highland games Yob? The ATO is not involved in that is it?


nope, not required.. only if you are selling it, as we are giving it away, we only need the temporary liquor licence.


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## Bomber Watson (2/3/16)

Brewers choice sorry, not craftbtewer.


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## Zorco (2/3/16)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> If you are holding the function at a private premises, not selling it, you would be OK
> 
> If your are in a public place and are, in general, part of an event ( or even associated with an event ) then you will need licencing ( regardless if only "Members" are drinking the beer )
> 
> As far as Excise goes, you will have to pay, and its not simply a matter of going to the ATO and saying " I have 200ltrs of beer at 5%, how much excise do I need to pay " The ATO are anal about excise and your gear for measuring volume will NEED to be calibrated by a NATA lab.


Agreed,

I spoke to a representative of the ATO to make preliminary inquiries for starting my own brewery. The ATO wants differentiation of a place of alcohol production for sale, and one that is used by a home brewer. I would need an independent premises, lockable and accessible by the ATO. Ingredients inventory, records of brewing, evidence of sale, distribution and disposing of unsuitable (infected) batches. Absolute testing of ABV wasn't discussed but I expect this step. I don't believe I can use my commercial brewery for my home brewing....i.e. need to double my equipment. That's where I shelved my research for a while.

The latest example that I know of in support of the OP's ambitions is the Samford show here near Brisbane. Brewer's choice had a marquee showing their wares and provided beer on tap for patrons. The patrons paid the enter. Brewer's Choice won't have been paid for their stall. Maybe there is overlap in some regards as there is a beer judging competition as well. A temporary license with serving volume limitations perhaps.

+1 Bomber Watson's observation too.

What is the cost of a temp liq license?


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## Yob (2/3/16)

$55 or so from memory which allows for 100ml tastings


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## Ducatiboy stu (2/3/16)

zorsoc_cosdog said:


> Agreed,
> 
> I spoke to a representative of the ATO to make preliminary inquiries for starting my own brewery. The ATO wants differentiation of a place of alcohol production for sale, and one that is used by a home brewer. I would need an independent premises, lockable and accessible by the ATO. Ingredients inventory, records of brewing, evidence of sale, distribution and disposing of unsuitable (infected) batches. Absolute testing of ABV wasn't discussed but I expect this step. I don't believe I can use my commercial brewery for my home brewing....i.e. need to double my equipment. That's where I shelved my research for a while.


I too did the same thing a few years back....

Its was a very hefty process. The premises has to be approved, equipment calibrated, recipes approved, approved bond store, transportation...etc..etc...etc

I also spoke to them about the " making it for my mates and giving it to them "..... I was advised I should not even attempt to do this


If the OP can get away with it on the basis of it being given away then that is a good thing  , but I would be talking to the ATO FIRST before going down that route and get clear clarification that you can present to OLGR


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## wynnum1 (2/3/16)

What security do you need to employ and what permits from police .


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## Zorco (2/3/16)

evildrakey said:


> How, if I decide to setup a tent and give away about 20 corny kegs of beer and cider how legal is that.
> It's unlicenced, I'm not charging in any way and am actually giving it away, serving it responsibly.


It appears the intended quantity of alcohol to be served moves beyond that of 100ml samples. I think a disappointing result is coming into range for this OP.

Maybe he could buy 6 temporary liquor licenses and give away pint samples!


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