# Cockroach Problem



## dickTed (12/5/05)

Three times now I've found baby cockroaches roaming around on the fermenters in my brew room.

The room is pretty much always dark.

There are some built in bookshelves covering one wall, and I suppose the mummies and daddies are behind the shelves.

I've used 2 cans of Mortein DIY Control Bomb, but they don't do the job. They are just a spray of mist which settles on the floor. None of it seems to go where the cockraches are.

Once upon a time you could get fumigation bombs which were like those little incense cones. Light them, seal up the door, and the smoke would penetrate everywhere that wasn't totally sealed.

Anyone know if these things are still available, and where?


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## scott70 (12/5/05)

The best thing to get rid of the cockies is a gel that the pest controllers use. you put a tiny dot in various spots in the room and they will be gone in a few days. Commercial kitchens use it and it kicks arse.


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## Gerard_M (12/5/05)

I have had success with sodium met to get rid of a heap of different pests. 
Cheers
Gerard


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## NRB (12/5/05)

How did you use it Gerard?


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## dicko (12/5/05)

Smoke generators in South Australia are only available to licenced pest control operators and it's probably the same in the other states.
These units only kill the cockroaches that are present on the time of application, in other words there is no residual effect.
You will still have hatchings and ones that migrate from other areas.
Smoke generators can cause discolouring of curtains and other fabrics, and there use would involve vacating the premises for six hours.

Those Mortein bombs are next to useless for efficient cockroach control.

The best way as Scott 70 suggested is the gel that is a bait for cockroaches.
It is a very efficient means of cockroach control and if it is followed up with a pyrethroid surface spray it is usually very successful.
All baits only work if you eliminate all other food sources and this usually means a big clean up.
The gels that licenced pest controllers use is based on a thick liquid malt with a chemical called Fiprinol(sp) added to it.

Bit like a kit and kilo for cockroaches :lol:

All these products are dangerous if they are in the wrong hands and therefore only available within the trade.

Try spraying mortein directly behind the bookcases but you might be surprised as to how many places within that room are actual harbourages for those pests.

In the long term it is probably cheaper to call a pest control co. than to spend money on sprays and bombs that dont work.

This may not help you if you are looking to do it yourself but at least you now have some insight into the problem.

Cheers


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## Kai (12/5/05)

Any tips, roach?


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## Gerard_M (12/5/05)

For mice & rats I have just spread it wherever I found droppings. Sod. Met is a bacterial inhibitor. Basically it will stop anything breathing. Very dangerous for humans especially smaller humans or asthmatics. I found that a couple of plastic Sod.Met bags pricked with a fork and thrown into the roof or ontop of the coolroom at the old shop worked a treat. I have been told that if you teach a Chicken to eat a Cockroach you won't have a problem with Cockies anymore. Another way to sort these problems out is a good sized Blue Tongue Lizard.
Cheers 
Gerard


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## dicko (12/5/05)

Or a well trained spiney ant eater :lol:


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## DarrylB (12/5/05)

Other control strategies can depend on the type of roach. Wonderful things (biologically speaking) the roaches- some give birth to live young, some lay eggs, and some create eggs that hatch inside the mother who then gives birth to live young.

The problem is that most of the chemicals the public have access to have limited effectiveness agsinst roaches - esp. the eggs. To be effective against them you usually need to retreat every 2-3 weeks for a couple of months to clear the buggers out. If you have major problems a registered and qualified pest control technician is the way to go.

I'm not big fan of many of the toxic chemicals about, but some "organic" control options are attached below.

The following formulations in the lid from an old jar placed in a few places (probably near the shelves)
-Equal parts sugar and borax, or sugar and baking soda. 
-Also 2 parts flour, 4 parts borax, 1 part cocoa is another one.
-Equal parts of oatmeal, flour and plaster of paris.

If you've now got some spare jars smear some vaseline inside the jar near the rim (5cm wide), then place some apple, potato or banana in the jar (try each of them as different roaches like different stuff). The roaches will get trapped in the jar and then can be disposed of.

Or set up the same jar and I understand some old red wine and a few crushed roaches can be pretty effective.

Be warned, borax is toxic and should not be used were children, pets or birds have access to.

{Post edited following a fair criticism of some of the content}


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## dickTed (12/5/05)

Thanks everyone.

I like the chicken idea.

The spiny ant-eater and bluetongue are good too, but harder to get.

Here's a picture of the room. The window is sealed up as you can see. I've even got blu-tack in the key hole. It's pitch dark in there. You can also see the aforementioned very useful bookshelves. It's a dedicated fermentation and bottling room.

I live on my own, and if I end up poisoning myself, the cockroaches will probably eat me before anyone finds me.


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## Gout (12/5/05)

a easy one i have seen before is a used butter container (still slippy) with some beer in the bottom, they (like us ) love beer and jump in the container to have a drink then cant climb out and wammo 

safe cheap and easy, plus good work of beer drips etc


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## big d (12/5/05)

i could always post anyone who wants some a bag of canetoads.these qld pests that are now busting there way through the nt are varocious eaters of just about anything.roaches included.

cheers
big d


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## dicko (12/5/05)

DarrylB said:


> Other control strategies can depend on the type of roach. Wonderful things (biologically speaking) the roaches- some give birth to live young, some lay eggs, and some create eggs that hatch inside the mother who then gives birth to live young.
> 
> The problem is that most of the chemicals the public have access to have limited effectiveness agsinst roaches - esp. the eggs. To be effective against them you usually need to retreat every 2-3 weeks for a couple of months to clear the buggers out.
> 
> ...



Well Darryl B
While this is not the forum to discuss the finer points of pest control I think that you may need to do a bit of study on the life cycle of the cockroach.
If you read appropriate text on the subject you will find that cockroaches undergo a "gradual (or hememitabolous) metamorphosis". so your opening sentence in your above post is not entirely true and lacks real credibility.

It is any wonder that the licence requirements and insurance costs are forever increasing within this industry when you consider comments that you have made in your above post.

In this case you have advised dicTed to use products that are "anti cholinesterase" compounds and in most forms are currently not approved for use inside homes.
Many of these chemicals are being, or have been phased out over the last few years.
The reason for the discontinued use is that those compounds have been deemed unsafe in our environment.



> A few drops of honey in a few key places (should) work like the pink drops the exterminator mentioned used - just less effective.



I also need to point out that the main cause for an insect building pesticide resistance within their species is a direct result of incorrect and poorly or inaccurately applied pesticides and insecticides, generally by persons who are least qualified to use such chemicals.

My advice for dic Ted to get a licenced and qualified pest controller comes from my experience and observation within this industry of people thinking they can "cure" their problem with supermarket chemicals or worse, misguided information that has been born by misuse of available chemicals.

I mean no disrespect to you DarrylB but I would suggest that your comments may be detrimental to the entire elimination of dicTeds cockroach problem and whereby your methods may work for you in your situation, those same methods may provide no control in another situation.

Happy brewing and safe pest control to all,


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## big d (12/5/05)

ok i will send the first bag of chemical free cane toads to dicko.
just pm me your addy dicko and i will put them in an o/night mail bag.  

cheers
big d
helping to keep the nt toad free


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## dicko (12/5/05)

Hi Big D,
When I was last in the NT the cockroaches were as big as the cane toads in QLD.
We dont want those critters (cane toads) down here, chemical free or not.
Cheers


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## big d (12/5/05)

what if i just send you one toad.you can open its mouth dry it and use it as a stubbie holder.
mmm wonder if i got a few nights worth of toads dried em and made a cover for my mash tun and kettle.now that would be a talking point.
taxidermy experiment here i come :blink: 

cheers
big d toadsville


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## dicko (12/5/05)

big d said:


> what if i just send you one toad.you can open its mouth dry it and use it as a stubbie holder
> 
> cheers
> big d toadsville
> [post="58886"][/post]​



Hi BD
When you think about it, that is probably the reason they were imported into QLD,
after all I would want to hide the fact if I couldn't spell "beer" XXXX. :lol: 

Uh Oh!!! h34r: 
All hell will break loose now I have said that!!!

Cheers Dicko
Mayor of Toad Hall and Cockroach County.


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## DarrylB (12/5/05)

dicko, not to create a sparring match but I would need to clarify a few points for you.

1. Actually I am a qualified entomologist, and my opening comments were in relation to the reproductive behaivour of cockroaches, which is nearly (although not entirely) unique within the insect world - specifically the fact that various species within the one order of insects demonstrate either viviparity, ovoparity or ovoviviparity. This has nothing to do with the development after birth or hatching.
Hememitabolous is basically saying that the juvinile developes slowly into an adult and (essentially) appears to be a "little" adult. This is distinct from the holometabolous development whereby the juvinile (generally) looks quite different that the adult - take moths and butterlies as just one example. I'll argue that my comments didn't show a lack of credibility, but may have been misread/misinterpreted.

2. Fair cop on me - there would be room to have taken the post and removed any reference to any "heavy" chemical in the editing stge. No I do not (in the context of this forum) suggest to represent myself as an authority or trusted source on such issues and thus even making such statements is probably stepping over the mark. This is not the place to be suggesting dodgy home recipes with toxic chemicals. And to not draw anyone into blindly trusting anything I have mentioned, I will choose now to not outline my credentials. 

3. The anticholinesterase group of chemicals is (rightly so) given a fair bit of flak. They are unsafe when "loose" in the environment as they can have serious side effects to small animals, birds, fish..... the list goes on. So the warning to all, as with anything you do, make sure you find out from trusted sources all you need to know before you do something potentially dangerous. I'd also add that another major factor in insecticide resisistance is the overruse of a single type of chemical.

The most notable offending parts of my original post will be edited forthwith.

Regards, Darryl


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## dicko (13/5/05)

Hi Darryl,

Thank you for correcting those points as my main concern was not the accuracy of your interpretation of the life cycle of a cockroach but more about the indescriminate application of potentially dangerous chemicals and compounds that are sometimes become available to the general public.

I think that dicTed and others may realise that the original "smoke bomb" was removed from sale for safety reasons and that although he may find one of these units for sale somewhere, it use and sale has been restricted in most jurisdictions.

The fact of pesticide and insecticde resistance can be argued far and wide and it appears that the views vary considerably throughout suppliers and regulatory authorities.
Persistent use is a good and valid point but the uncontrolled application of chemicals by making them ( be them weaker or generic versions) available in supermarkets and hardware stores is also a major factor.
The perfect example of this is the current advertising of the guy that buys the mortein spray in a "pump pack" and returns home to think he is going to do a full pest control job on his home. we all know the add where the wife is eying off the good looking pesty that is treating their home.
My experience suggests that the possible misuse of a perfectly good and reasonably safe pyrethroid chemical by the public who are influenced by this advertising has a big effect on its ( the chemical ) effectiveness in the future.
I could go on and on and I guess most on this forum, including dicTed are bored sensless but as a pest control operator and company owner I need to stress the importance of safety with chemicals for both yourself and your families.

Cheers


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## nonicman (13/5/05)

dicko said:


> big d said:
> 
> 
> > what if i just send you one toad.you can open its mouth dry it and use it as a stubbie holder
> ...



Stubbie wont fit, even after a good bashing with the hammer, just broken glass and beer everywhere. Maybe the townie toads are on the small side. 

On the cockie front, our flat has had a Dicko come through just before we moved in. At night you see the little buggers outside trying to get in, every week or so you see a dead cockie on the floor. Not seen any live cockies inside since we moved in.

Edit: have no idea to te treatment, seems to axe cockies and spiders except Daddy long legs.

Have to use a freezer and hammer method for cane toads due to Mrs Nonic not approving the machete or golf club methods (not to mention the identification process which included a visit to the vet for the first frozen toad).


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## PostModern (13/5/05)

I'm going to join this discussion with my own experiences, late and with a question.

I had a major cockroach problem in my current house when I moved it. Small brown cockroaches, which I believe are known as American cockroaches. The house was 40 years old and they had the complete run of the kitchen. Had a pest guy come out to eliminate them, didn't see any for about 2 weeks then they were everywhere again. I ended up ripping out the entire kitchen and remodelling. When I did this, I put some powder from Bunnings called "Roach Prufe" under all of the cabinets before they were installed. Haven't seen a single roach in the kitchen in well over two years now. I see the occassional black bush roach in the garden under the leaf litter. Don't mind those.

Anyway, my question: what is in "Roach Prufe"?


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## SpaceMonkey (18/8/05)

Gout said:


> a easy one i have seen before is a used butter container (still slippy) with some beer in the bottom, they (like us ) love beer and jump in the container to have a drink then cant climb out and wammo
> 
> safe cheap and easy, plus good work of beer drips etc
> [post="58850"][/post]​



Any jar or tin that has had something greasy and tasty in it will do the job, we used to have the buggers in our kitchen and whenever youd leave an empty jar or tin next to the rubbish bin to be taken out for recycling they'd crawl into it to get at the traceews of food and get stuck. salmon or tuna cans work a treat.


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## MAH (18/8/05)

OK a little off-topic, but I recently remodeled our kitchen. We had a consistent problem with silver fish. I could never get rid of the buggers. When I removed all the skirting boards you should have seen them all hiding away. There were literaly hundreds. Sprayed the buggers with Mortein which killed them, plus I didn't replace the the skirting boards for a couple of months. This seems to have fixed the problem, but i fear they've just moved to another part of the house. I reckon not putting the skirting boards back on straight away has helped the most as they haven't had a place to live.

Similar approach has helped with roaches. I cleaned up a lot of junk outside, taking away places for them to live and hide. This certainly cut down on the number of roaches around the place.

Cheers
MAH


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