# Belle Saison Dry Yeast



## RobB

Either I'm rubbish with the search function, or this is really new.

Danstar have released a dry saison yeast - Belle Saison.

Release is "Fall 2012", i.e. about now.

Retailers, any idea when this is due?


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## Bizier

That is really cool.

I am keen to get my hands on this and the West Coast.


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## jyo

Bizier said:


> That is really cool.
> 
> I am keen to get my hands on this and the West Coast.



Agreed. I can't wait to give both a go. So the Saison strain sounds like the 3711 French Saison in description...not very much info in the fermentation temp range though.


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## keifer33

Much excited about both this and the West Coast. Will be buying from the first retailer that has this available.


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## np1962

I was picking up some other yeasts early October and had a chat about the new yeasts about to be released in 11gm packs, BRY-97-American West Coast, CBC-1 Cask Conditioning Yeast and the Belle Saison. The following is an email I received later that day.
Cheers
Nige

Just sending you the information we discussed earlier today.
Currently we have the Nottingham, Windsor and Munich products in stock and I anticipate we will have the other new products available late November or early December.
I dont have any information on the new Belle Saison yeast as yet and am still in the process of obtaining information on availability but I believe it is on the internet if you would like to track it down.
Please let me know if you have any questions or queries.

Cheers and have a great weekend!

Melissa

Melissa Cleghorn
Warehouse Manager/Administration Support
Lallemand Australia Pty Ltd


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## Ross

The Saison yeast should be here mid December & the bry-97 a little earlier.


cheers Ross


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## RobB

This could go either way. This is the mob that promised a weizen yeast and then delivered "Munich". Fingers crossed.


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## Johann

Malty Cultural said:


> This could go either way. This is the mob that promised a weizen yeast and then delivered "Munich". Fingers crossed.



The 'Munich' yeast is a Bavarian weizen yeast.


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## DJR

Johann said:


> The 'Munich' yeast is a Bavarian weizen yeast.



Yep, with not much weizen character


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## DeGarre

DJR said:


> Yep, with not much weizen character



True. WB06 is much better in that regard.


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## winkle

DeGarre said:


> True. WB06 is much better in that regard.



+1 tried both - WB06 wins by a mile


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## randyrob

Nice Find MC, Saison is one of my Fav styles esp in Summer. Lookiing forward to trying this one

Rob.


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## RobB

I'm just starting to see the first reviews of this yeast from the northern hemisphere, where it seems to have had an earlier release.

This sounds promising: review on Jim's

This was slightly less enthusiastic, although he didn't push the temperature: review on BB

Either way, it would appear that it's not the Dupont strain given how fast it chewed it's way to the FG.


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## dr K

It may be a bit early to even guess exactly whre it came from, other than as is stated Belgium.
I am brewing with it next weekend, I may do a standardised beer with 100% pilsener (dingemaans) but most likely a pils/wheat/other blend. If I go strong I will hold at sub 20C for 2 days then let it run.
K


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## Barry

Plan to do a WLP565 and Belle Saison Yeast comparision next/this week. Love the style and the heat is right.


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## Barry

PS. Been away for two weeks and everything changes or have I sleept for 20 years?


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## randyrob

Just grabbed some with my latest Craftbrewer Order, Can't wait to give it a spin.


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## RobB

Picked up a sachet this morning and I have thirty minutes to go on the boil. Can't wait.

I'm going to push the temps on this one. I'll probably pitch in the low to mid twenties and then just let it run. I'm hoping to get it into the low thirties.

My OG will only be around 1.042, but that should still give me around 5% abv if this yeast attenuates like I hope it will.


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## RobB

Ok, I pitched a bit warmer than expected - about 27 degrees. It was 29 after about eight hours and is now sitting at 30. I feel a bit naughty...........but I won't die wondering what this yeast can handle.

Krausen has come and gone within a day and a half! Despite the air lock going at a mile a minute, there was no volcanic krausen - it climbed about two litres above the liquid surface.

I probably won't take a gravity reading until the weekend, but I'll report back with FG and early taste impressions.


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## toolio666

As per my post tonight as well...
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/70619-danstar-belle-saison/

Ran it hotter than I planned, around 32 degrees during the day.

25 hours 1.050 to 1.016... Expected FG 1.011

When do I add my finings and move to CC?


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## RobB

1.043 to 1.005 after five days, and I suspect it actually got there a day or two ago. The fermentation temperature got as high as 32 degrees and I am pleased to say that there was nothing hot or solventy about the sample.

The sample was very milky and opaque, so not a lot of flocculation just yet. Aroma was quite fruity; not quite banana, but in that ball park. Flavour was similar with a slight peppery finish. There are probably more flavours in there, but with so much yeast still in suspension, I'm not perceiving them yet.

I'm going to cool the beer down to the low twenties slowly over the next week and then keg. So far it has all been fairly positive.

I should also note that I brew for 11 litre kegs, so I only started with 13 litres. That makes my pitching rate fairly high when you consider my OG.


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## Yob

dr K said:


> It may be a bit early to even guess exactly whre it came from, other than as is stated Belgium.
> I am brewing with it next weekend, I may do a standardised beer with 100% pilsener (dingemaans) but most likely a pils/wheat/other blend. If I go strong I will hold at sub 20C for 2 days then let it run.
> K


how did you go with this?


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## RobB

A little under two weeks and it's down to 1.001. For a yeast which is not meant to be very flocculant, the sample was pretty bright and the flavours are now a bit easier to define - pears and pepper. There was also a pleasant aroma which I can't describe as anything other than yeasty; a bit like the smell coming off bread dough as it rises.

The fruity aroma was fairly subtle, but that's OK. It's strong enough to notice, but doesn't turn the beer into a daquiri.

So, fruit and spice (tick), a touch of funk (tick), monstrous attenuation (tick) and tolerant of high temperatures (tick). This is definitely a true saison yeast. Everyone will have their own opinion on how this compares to other saison strains (and I think DuPont will always be the favourite, despite its quirks) but this is a worthy addition to the dry yeast stable.

More notes in a week once it's carbed and ready.


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## Bizier

Malty Cultural said:


> A little under two weeks and it's down to 1.001.



:super:
Wicked!


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## RobB

OK, it's carbed and chilled now. There are some nice Belgian flavours coming through and it's turned out to be a pretty decent beer. A couple of surprises - it doesn't feel anywhere near as dry as I was expecting it to, although I did use 10% rolled oats in the grist. There is also a sweetness, or at least a perception of sweetness, which I wasn't expecting in a beer which finished at 1.001.

I deliberately made a very simple beer to find out about the yeast - 80/10/10 pils/wheat/oats and a single bittering addition. While I am happy with what I have in the keg, I am already thinking of tweaks to make the next one better. Late hopping is the obvious one. Some orange peel would go well with this yeast, plus some more character in the malt - I'm thinking belgian biscuit might work well.

I'm looking forward to hearing other people's experiences, but for me this gets a tick.


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## pk.sax

Haven't used the dry one yet mate. But I'd suggest against late hopping. Doesn't suit the yeast.

Besides that, what you are saying describes saisons really well, so dry but doesn't feel it. Exactly my experience too.


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## Lurks

The saison I brewed with Wyeast 3711 has come out predictably dry but surprisingly and pleasantly tart as well.


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## DeGarre

5 days and down to 1012 from 1050. Steady but not the most aggressive airlock activity, still in every 7 seconds. Fermenting at 22 degC ie very cool.


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## doon

I let mine go at ambient melbourne temps been over 30 for last 8 days. 1060 to 1008 in three days and tastes awesome so far


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## jyo

Malty Cultural said:


> OK, it's carbed and chilled now. There are some nice Belgian flavours coming through and it's turned out to be a pretty decent beer. A couple of surprises - it doesn't feel anywhere near as dry as I was expecting it to, although I did use 10% rolled oats in the grist. There is also a sweetness, or at least a perception of sweetness, which I wasn't expecting in a beer which finished at 1.001.
> 
> I deliberately made a very simple beer to find out about the yeast - 80/10/10 pils/wheat/oats and a single bittering addition. While I am happy with what I have in the keg, I am already thinking of tweaks to make the next one better. Late hopping is the obvious one. Some orange peel would go well with this yeast, plus some more character in the malt - I'm thinking belgian biscuit might work well.
> 
> I'm looking forward to hearing other people's experiences, but for me this gets a tick.


So after reading your previous description of peppery and pear and now this above, would you say it leans more towards the French Saison strain? Possibly a dry version of this?




practicalfool said:


> Haven't used the dry one yet mate. But I'd suggest against late hopping. Doesn't suit the yeast.
> 
> Besides that, what you are saying describes saisons really well, so dry but doesn't feel it. Exactly my experience too.


I dunno, PF. I have used the 3711 on a cube of APA and it was sensational.

Just wondering- has anyone tried this yeast yet in a controlled ferment in a fridge below 30'?


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## Rowy

jyo said:


> So after reading your previous description of peppery and pear and now this above, would you say it leans more towards the French Saison strain? Possibly a dry version of this?
> 
> 
> 
> I dunno, PF. I have used the 3711 on a cube of APA and it was sensational.
> 
> Just wondering- has anyone tried this yeast yet in a controlled ferment in a fridge below 30'?


I am just cold crashing one now. It was under my inside staircase which gives a constant 22. I will let you all know how it goes.


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## jyo

Cheers, mate.


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## winkle

Rowy said:


> I am just cold crashing one now. It was under my inside staircase which gives a constant 22. I will let you all know how it goes.


Way to go Rowy.


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## RobB

jyo said:


> So after reading your previous description of peppery and pear and now this above, would you say it leans more towards the French Saison strain? Possibly a dry version of this?


Closer to the French than to the Dupont, but I couldn't say whether it's a dry version or something altogether new to the market. I'm not great at putting names to flavours, so I have just listed the obvious ones in pear and pepper. There is a bit more going on in there. I'm always the one eavesdropping on other tasters, thinking "oh yeah, lemongrass, now I'm getting it....."


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## super_simian

I am definitely noticing a tart lemon note, lemongrass wouldn't be far off. And that's in 4 fermentations from 2 packs in different fermenters, so I'm 99% sure it's not an infection. Anyone else notice how funny the flocc'd yeast cake looks? Like beige gravel...


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## DeGarre

DeGarre said:


> 5 days and down to 1012 from 1050. Steady but not the most aggressive airlock activity, still in every 7 seconds. Fermenting at 22 degC ie very cool.


8 days now and has been at 1010 for 3 days. Brix is going down ever so slightly in refractometer but not enough to move gravity. I have shook the FV twice now. Perhaps it's having a break and then dives again...


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## dr K

Belle Saisson first [rider I am involved with http://www.mashematics.net and have been since 2009].
A friend of mine who is a literally "champion" brewer did a batch of standard style with this that he bought along to the March 2013 Canberra Brewers meeting (open of course for comments from those who tasted it who may read this)
My thoughts: I knew it was massively attenuated before I tasted it (I had been told) but it did not taste that way (of course the mash regime I was not told apart from a 5% (?) sucrose addition). The esters were subtle but enjoyable, to my mind a grind of pepper and a touch of old but not rotting orange (subtle). A very drinkable beer in which the yeast played a minor but significant role,
I also brewed using this yeast ..without going step by step it was (is) a 6,8% black death fermented at 18C for a few days then let run up to 24C, no sucrose. Again the attenuation was high but the beer belies, oh I mashed at 63 btw. Some pick an anise or liquorice aroma, I get a pepper/nigella nose, the big malts may cause some confusion.
Conclusion: [Well not really its only two trials]..this yeast is highly attenuative but somehow does not chew the body out, it produces subtle esters in the lower temperature range.
Comments?

K


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## DeGarre

Took a break at 1.010 for 3 days, now has clearly dropped to 1.009 and "officially" a saison now. I'll keep shaking the fv a bit still.


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## RobB

dr K said:


> ..... massively attenuated ........... but it did not taste that way........The esters were subtle but enjoyable........a grind of pepper........A very drinkable beer in which the yeast played a minor but significant role.


Very much in line with my impressions.



dr K said:


> Conclusion:
> [Well not really its only two trials]..this yeast is highly attenuative but somehow does not chew the body out, it produces subtle esters in the lower temperature range.
> Comments?
> 
> K


Having fermented at over thirty degrees, I can also add that the esters remain subtle at higher temps.


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## DeGarre

Finally finished and bottled at 1008/9 and one week in the bottle:







Very delicate vs T58, balanced, spicy, peppery, but in a very sophisticated way, none of that WLP565/6 Dupont heavy hitting. Belgian for sure.


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## peter.brandon

so what is the consensus with temperature for this yeast?

Start at 18 for 2 days then ramp up 1 degree each day until FG is stabilised under 1.010?

I am planning the following after drinking Brooklyn Brewery Sorachi Ace Saison

OG: 1.067
IBU: 33

5.0kg Pils
0.5kg Munich
0.5kg Vienna
0.5kg Wheat
0.5kg Cane sugar

Calypso 12%
14g @ 60min
20g @ 20min
20g @ 1min
30g @ dry

Cheers!


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## peter.brandon

poke


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## Barry

I usually start in the low twenties and let it go up to the high twenties. Might need some added heat this time of the year.


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## Ross

I've brewed with this commercially at 19C & in the high twenties (same beer). My preference is keeping it at 19c. The higher temps did not produce anymore good character, just a few fusels that i didn't like.


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## peter.brandon

Thanks Barry & Ross.

Might try keeping it at 19 degrees this time.


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## Bats

This yeast ferments like crazy! 

I pitched a rehydrated packet at about 19 degrees and slowly brought it up a degree a day to 25. It was down to 1.004 after 5 days (maybe even sooner, but I took a hydro reading at day 5).

My question is:

If this ferments so quick and down to 1.004 already, can I transfer to a keg only a week after pitching? I usually wait for at least the 2 week mark. Anyone see any downsides to kegging sooner? 

By the way, I dont transfer to secondary. I just cold crash and keg.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

Ross said:


> I've brewed with this commercially at 19C & in the high twenties (same beer). My preference is keeping it at 19c. The higher temps did not produce anymore good character, just a few fusels that i didn't like.


Excellent, should be awesome for use in a Tassie hot water cupboard.


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## Bats

Bats said:


> This yeast ferments like crazy!
> 
> I pitched a rehydrated packet at about 19 degrees and slowly brought it up a degree a day to 25. It was down to 1.004 after 5 days (maybe even sooner, but I took a hydro reading at day 5).
> 
> My question is:
> 
> If this ferments so quick and down to 1.004 already, can I transfer to a keg only a week after pitching? I usually wait for at least the 2 week mark. Anyone see any downsides to kegging sooner?
> 
> By the way, I dont transfer to secondary. I just cold crash and keg.


?


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## tiprya

If it's done, it's fine to keg. I'd be giving it 2-3 days at FG to clean up after itself though before kegging.


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## Bats

Anyone else had good attenuation with this yeast?

I left it a few days to clean up after itself and it is now down to 1.002.

I had to cold crash just in case it kept going.


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## Barry

It has finished at 1.002 or just slightly less both times that I have used this yeast.


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## timmi9191

Yep. Very high . 90% from memory.


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## Blitzer

Quick question in regards to this yeast, I see a lot of mention of pear & peppery. Does it give off any farmhouse characteristics? Or is this not normally attributed to yeast for a saison?


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## mwd

What are farmhouse characteristics? Damn is a good attenuator though down to 1.004 with the Coopers Saison Kit and still bubbling along very slowly. Did not notice anything specific tastewise from hydrometer samples. Very slight winey taste with a hint of tartness but that could be from the Wheat can.
I have never tasted a commercial Siason so nothing to compare with.

1x Coopers Pale Ale
1x Coopers Wheat 
500g BE2
500g Rice syrup (maltose )
25g Saaz
Belle Saison Yeast @22C gradually up to 29C


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## DJ_L3ThAL

Tartness is a descriptor of a typical Saison http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style16.php#1c


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## jyo

Currently making my way through a batch keg fermented with this. It was actually a weizen grainbill with 60/40 pils to wheat and a touch of melanoidin with two addition of Riwaka.

I am really liking this so far. Chewed through the wort in about a week, from 1048 down to 1004. It still has a good mouthfeel for a beer that has attenuated so well.

I had planned to do this as a controlled ferment at 22', but fridge space did not allow it, so I had it in a cupboard in the garage a few weeks ago when the temps in Perth weren't so high. The hottest it got was about 26' (measured wort temp on the hottest day in mid ferment, not very scientific...)

I love it. Going to throw the slurry at a stout this week.


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