# Swartzbier V Czech Dark Lager



## Fatgodzilla (24/12/07)

My next favourite beer to brew is a Czech dark lager. I've not had enough of them either commercially or from other brewers but as a Tooheys Old drinker ready to step up the grades, these are going to be the beers I want in 2008. The few I've had suit my palate well.

Looking for recipes though, a few great swartzbier recipes are in these AHB threads, but is a swartzbier (germanic in origin / ingredients) the same as a czech dark lager ? I know the proximity of these areas in Europe and the interchanging of boundaries (sounds like they hate each others guts over there) suggest these are really one and the same, but with the exception perhaps of a different (localised) yeast, can anyone tell me how they differ ?

Dreaming of a black (but bushfire free) Xmas .. now won't that be a change.. :beerbang:


----------



## Aaron (24/12/07)

This page:

http://www.europeanbeerguide.net/czecintr.htm

Seems to have a lot of information about Czech beer. Or try Google. The following search presented lots of results for me.


http://www.google.com.au/search?q=dark+czech+lager+history

These don' concentrate on Czech dark V Schwarzbier but they do provide lots of information.


----------



## yardy (24/12/07)

checkout the November 06 podcast Schwarzbier

cheers


----------



## beersom (24/12/07)

IMHO Czech dark Lagers are much closer to a Munchner Dunkel than Schwarzbier.
... think Munchner Dunkel but a little less bitterness/ hop charactor, they have a delightfully soft malt profile.


----------



## goatherder (24/12/07)

Think of both beers as black Pilsners - one in the German style and one in the Bohemian style with ingredients appropriate to each. This isn't the complete picture of course but it will set you down the right path.


----------



## devo (24/12/07)

Below is recipe I knocked out couple of months ago which I was extremely happy with. I kegged it about 2 weeks prior to heading to Europe where I sampled a few dark lagers in Germany and the Czech Rep. On my return I tapped into a keg of 6 week old cold conditioned beer that turned out fantastic and will plan to hopefully brew again soon.


*Dark Lager-Schwarzbier*

*Fermentables*
BB Galaxy Malt 4.30 kg 81.9 %
Light Crystal 0.50 kg 9.5 %
Dark Munich 0.28 kg 5.2 %
Chocolate Malt 0.12 kg 2.4 %
Roast Barley 0.05 kg 1.0 %

*Hops*
German Hallertauer Mittlefruh 40g 60 Min From End
German Spalt Select 10g 30 Min From End
German Spalt Select 10g 10 Min From End

*Yeast*
Wyeast 2278-Czech Pilsner Lager

Boil Duration: 90.0 mins 
Fermentation Temperature: 10 degC


----------



## Ross (24/12/07)

How light a crystal Devo? Seems like a lot of crystal for a Schwarzbier.

Cheers Ross


----------



## devo (24/12/07)

It was actually pale crystal (my mistake) but I can't recall the specs (pretty sure I ordered it from you actually). It was a thrown together recipe because I was trying to use up some grain i had left, hoping for the beer gods to look kindly on and surprisingly they did.


----------



## Hargie (24/12/07)

....Depends on how authentic you want to be , but a Schwarzbier recipe should use Carafa not roast barley....


....i'm guessing all that crystal is to balance out using so much Galaxy....





...cougar...


----------



## Barry (24/12/07)

Good Day
I brewed an attempt at one. It is my dunkel but bittered to 30 IBU with saaz with 10-15 grams of saaz near the end. seems to fit the bits of info I could gather. Kozel have a dark lager which I have bought from Danderous Dan Murphy's.


----------



## goatherder (24/12/07)

Hargie said:


> ....Depends on how authentic you want to be , but a Schwarzbier recipe should use Carafa not roast barley....



Correct - RB isn't allowed under the Rheinheitsgebot. I believe farbmalz is the German name, which I think is equivalent to the husked Carafas (not Carafa Special) or black malt.


----------



## Whistlingjack (24/12/07)

Just to confuse the issue, Krusovice produce a dark lager which they call Čern (Čern = black = schwarz) Some purists would have you believe that the Czechs actually developed this style and many breweries actually label it as schwarzbier.



> Think of both beers as black Pilsners - one in the German style and one in the Bohemian style with ingredients appropriate to each. This isn't the complete picture of course but it will set you down the right path.



This is a good way to look at it. But the Czech schwarzbiers are lightly hopped, compared to pilsners.

WJ


----------



## blackbock (24/12/07)

RE: Schwarzbier = Black Pilsener.

I think this is a very narrow interpretation of the style. Putting all Schwarzbier into a box labelled "Black Pilsener" is a mistake I feel, this is very much the American view of things. If you look into the background of Schwarzbier, it has been brewed for literally hundreds of years, well before Lagerbier was even in existence. In Kulmbach there is arguably archaeological evidence for black beer brewed by the Hallstatt Celts about 800BC! Schwarzbier, as its name suggests, is really a catch-all name for non-pale lagers which don't fit well into a beer classification system.


----------



## suorama (14/1/08)

Im not know nothing, but want to be voice.

Czech dark lager ie. Kozel Čern is a light alcohol, mild hopped and sweet beer, usually in Czechs, womens drink that kind of beer.

http://www.beer-kozel.cz/en/products/dark.html

And I think, Germans Schwarzbier have ie. much more alcohol.

And usually Czech beers have bit of diasetyl and I think Germans not?



( did you know chinese word(s) wǒmen mean "us" )


----------



## Tim (10/10/08)

Just digging through some old threads and thought I would put in my 2c worth.

Schwartzbiers such as Kostritzer tend to not be so malty, quite thin in body and have a tart acidic sourness to them.

Czech Dark Lagers such as Bernard Dark, are really malty with a big chewy body. More like a bock or a dunkel.

IMO they are two completely different beer styles.

The lines get greyed however as Krusovice Dark is more like Kostritzer!


----------



## neonmeate (10/10/08)

Tim said:


> Just digging through some old threads and thought I would put in my 2c worth.
> 
> Schwartzbiers such as Kostritzer tend to not be so malty, quite thin in body and have a tart acidic sourness to them.
> 
> ...



that's a good summary of it tim

there's a big range of beers under these names, at varying strengths, colours and bitternesses: czech cernes or tmavys can sometimes go more towards the stout end of things, and then sometimes they are just sweet and brown. usually the 13 or 14 degree ones (like bernard) are big and bitter and roasty and the 10 degree ones are the sweet chick drinks that the guy above was talking about, eg kozel dark that we get here (which just tastes like ovaltine to me)


----------

