# First Biab In My 40lt Urn



## Crusty (12/6/12)

So I finally got around to doing my first BIAB today, an American Pale Ale, no chill, hopped with centennial & cascade & also my first time using BrewMate software.
I've got quite a few All Grain beers under my belt but this was my first BIAB. The day went extremely well & all finished in around 3.5hrs.
Note to self: Get off ya butt & install that pulley you bought a month ago. Holding the bag & letting it drain was a workout even for a single batch, so the pulley is a god send. I mashed in with 30lt water @69.2deg & added the bag & grain & it settled @65.7deg, aiming for 66deg, so pretty close. I lost around 2deg after a 90min sacc rest so will improve on that next time round. After the rest, I ramped up to 78deg mash out whilst continually pumping with the paint stirrer. Once @78deg, turned the urn off & hoisted the bag. I aimed for a 23lt final batch @1.049 but I failed to add my loss to trub/chiller in BrewMate & left it at 0 so I ended up only getting around 21lt into the cube but the gravity was 1.061. I worked out 70% efficiency for this beer & ended up with a tad over 80%, so BIAB efficiency is great & something I was worried about beforehand compared to my traditional 3V set up. I did squeeze the bag & pre-boil volume was 27.5lt instead of 26.6lt so I may not squeeze next time. I found the squeeze probably contributed to a bit more trub but I'm not too phased by it. If anyone is thinking of giving BIAB a go, I say go for it, It's a fantastic way to brew. I quite often hear comments that BIAB is just a stepping stone to bigger & better beers but in my experience, if you are happy with single batch 23lt beers from 3-6%, look no further than BIAB, it's fantastic.
ps. The cube sample tasted awesome. :icon_cheers:


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## RdeVjun (12/6/12)

You've done really well on a maiden BIAB! :beerbang: 
You may be aware of this already but when it comes time to pitch, just dilute the wort to the desired strength:
614921L=26L (roughly)
So add 26L-21L=5L water (must be sanitary!)
Should put you right into the zone! :icon_cheers:


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## Bribie G (12/6/12)

Well done old son :icon_chickcheers: - glad to hear you made the leap, no going back now.


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## Crusty (12/6/12)

RdeVjun said:


> You've done really well on a maiden BIAB! :beerbang:
> You may be aware of this already but when it comes time to pitch, just dilute the wort to the desired strength:
> 614921L=26L (roughly)
> So add 26L-21L=5L water (must be sanitary!)
> Should put you right into the zone! :icon_cheers:



Thanks mate.
I thought about diluting it to get to my desired OG before fermenting but was a little worried about the hop additions. Simply adding the desired anount of water will fix my voulmes but on the downside, it will also throw out my hop additions, won't it? or are my hop additions out already with the higher OG?




Bribie G said:


> Well done old son :icon_chickcheers: - glad to hear you made the leap, no going back now.



Thanks Bribie for all you help via my PM's. I really appreciate the help & advice you offered me & the day wouldn't of went as well as it did without your help. :icon_chickcheers: 
BIAB & no chill is awesome & it's defiantly no looking back from here on in.
Cheers


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## Barley Belly (12/6/12)

Glad it all went well for you Crusty. :icon_cheers: 

At what times did you add your hops additions?


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## Crusty (12/6/12)

Barley Belly said:


> Glad it all went well for you Crusty. :icon_cheers:
> 
> At what times did you add your hops additions?



Hi BB.
Thanks to you mate also for answering some concerns I had before taking the plunge.
Just a simple recipe, no chill.
15g Centennial ( 10.5% ) @60mins & 25g Cascade ( 6.2% ) @10mins.
32IBU & 4.8%. Cube sample tastes awesome.


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## GuyQLD (12/6/12)

Yesterday must have been the day for firsts.

I did my first BIAB yesterday, and anything that could go wrong did go wrong.

New gear / New technique and no experience made for a fun day, but when all is said and done I got 18.5L of 1.060 Grav wort into my fermenter, with a bit of top up water hit 1.048-1.049ish. Which considering I was shooting for 1.046 on the recipe I'm pretty stoked and now I know what I'm doing, I imagine next brew day will be so much better.

Doesn't seem to matter how much "research" I did, at the end of the day it was me, a crab pot and 5kg of grain battling it out. And there's no substitute for experience.

Can't wait to taste the results. The house still smells malty.


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## Amber Fluid (12/6/12)

Considering you have gone from 3V to BIAB I just have a couple of q's....

1/ Why the change?

2/ How do you compare between the 2 ways of brewing, although you have only done one BIAB?

3/ Do you think one system is better than the other?

Obviously if you want really high gravity brews then there is only one way to go, but if this is no factor, and in a perfect world, you had to choose between the 2, which one would you prefer?

I BIAB but I see not often someone gives up 3V brewing to go to BIAB (usually the other way around), so am curious on what your thoughts are with the whole procedure.


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## Crusty (12/6/12)

GuyQLD said:


> Yesterday must have been the day for firsts.
> 
> I did my first BIAB yesterday, and anything that could go wrong did go wrong.
> 
> ...



Nice one Guy.
Looks like you got good efficiency as well. I was really concerned that doing biab was in some way a step backwards from my 3V system but that couldn't be further from the truth. I got over 80% efficiency with my first ever biab & I am chuffed. The strike in was great, rich, foamy, malty goodness filling the house. The hardest part for me on the day was the hoisting of the bag, it was pretty heavy holding it out of the water for the required time that I could slip it into another pot to drain it. I will get my pulley set up for the next brew. It was a few firsts for me. New gear, first biab, first no chill & first time using BrewMate in the field.


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## roverfj1200 (12/6/12)

Great work.. And one more reason for me to turn...


Cheers


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## Crusty (12/6/12)

Amber,
My 3V setup was very hands on & was a PID controlled Rims system. As far as making better beer, I think there is no difference at all, they can both make equal quality beers.
I really just got sick of the whole process. Heating up strike water via gas, transferring water to the mash tun, recirculating through the rims tube
( often resulting in a stuck mash ) even using extra strike water & rice hulls. Pump, hoses, camlocks, silicone beer line everywhere, I just got sick of the process to the point where I couldn't be bothered brewing, it was that bad. I started off with a simple 10g igloo cooler mash tun which lost 0-1deg over an hour mash & got it into my head that controlling the temp would produce better beers. I made some of the best beers I have ever had with that set up & frankly, needed to give myself an uppercut for changing something that was already working so well. I looked at going back to the old system but thought about the urn & using electric as opposed to gas. I am glad I went biab now as it was such a simple brew day & clean up was a breeze. I am happy with standard beers so I have no interest in high gravity brewing & if I did, I would probably just make less volume brews, boil longer to achieve it. As I have had the chance to compare three methods of brewing, I can say with absolute certainty that biab is where I am staying. There are so many ways to brew, but for me, the simplicity & ease of doing this beer today has made me enjoy the process once more. If you biab & make great beers, don't be lured into believing that a 3V system will somehow produce a better beer, it just won't.


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## Crusty (12/6/12)

roverfj1200 said:


> Great work.. And one more reason for me to turn...
> 
> 
> Cheers



Go for it rover, it's awesome.


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## jakethesnake559 (12/6/12)

Hey Crusty,

Congrats on making the sideways step to BIAB!!
I did a couple of 3V brews with a mate back when I was still into kits.
Looking at the setup and amount of stuff he had, I couldn't ever see myself getting that dedicated to brewing.
But then I stumbled on BIAB about a year ago, and absolutely love it :icon_cheers: !

I picked up a 40L Burko urn last month, and as you found, it's made things even simpler again.

Looking to hear some more of your BIAB insights given your 3V experience!!


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## RdeVjun (12/6/12)

Crusty said:


> Thanks mate.
> I thought about diluting it to get to my desired OG before fermenting but was a little worried about the hop additions. Simply adding the desired anount of water will fix my voulmes but on the downside, it will also throw out my hop additions, won't it? or are my hop additions out already with the higher OG?


No sweat Crusty, kudos on a job well done!
IMO those hops should be fine, within reason of course, when diluted, but I presume that the recipe would've been designed for that 1.049, not 1.061. From that unexpectedly high efficiency you're looking at just a few extra litres of wort at the target strength here, but if you leave it undiluted you would perhaps be more likely to have BU:GU issues, 20% more GU. 
However OTOH, more often than not the batches that deviate from the target are the exceptional beers, so I wouldn't knock anyone for trying either way. That's one thing with this caper, there's swings and roundabouts at every turn! I guess the most important thing is, no matter what you'll have loads of great beer and all made quite simply! :icon_cheers:


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## Crusty (12/6/12)

jakethesnake559 said:


> Hey Crusty,
> 
> Congrats on making the sideways step to BIAB!!
> I did a couple of 3V brews with a mate back when I was still into kits.
> ...



Simplicity is the big one that's for sure. After brewing on my 3V setup, I would be so glad it was over only to spend the next 45mins to an hour cleaning up. Empty the mash tun, disassemble the false bottom, hose everything out, pull the rims system down, get the element out & clean it, etc, etc, etc, stuff that. Too much work involved. There had to be a simpler way & biab was the result. I am in no way saying that if you own a 3V system you will encounter the same hassles as me but being time poor with three little kids, I don't get much time to myself so I needed to look at something more time efficient. Due to this being my first biab & first time using BrewMate, I just ran with what numbers I achieved without altering my volumes or hop additions. In the end though, I ended up with a little less voulume into the cube than expected but on the plus side, a much higher gravity & much better efficiency than planned. When I ferment, I will add 5lt to the cubed wort to bring it back in line with my 1.049 required & will hop tea to give it a little kick along. I will now be fermenting 26lt instead of the 23lt that I was expecting so more beer for less work.
You gotta be happy with that. :icon_cheers:


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## Tim (12/6/12)

I also have gone from 3V brewing to BIAB. I started with simple plastic bucket 3V setup about 10 years ago and made some excellent beers, but then bought all the shiny things and had a 60L all stainless brewery at one stage. I still have some of the kit, including a 60L vessel and a march pump, but my beers were not any better and my brewday was just getting longer and longer. To top it off the beers were suffering for it as well and I couldnt capture the quality I got on my ghetto system of a 25L willow esky, bucket of death HLT and 30L fermenter with immersion element over the side. I now brew in a 40L crown using BIAB. I have a 3 hour brewday and the beer is some of the best I have ever brewed.

Keeping it simple brews better beers, not shiny things.


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## Crusty (12/6/12)

Tim said:


> I also have gone from 3V brewing to BIAB. I started with simple plastic bucket 3V setup about 10 years ago and made some excellent beers, but then bought all the shiny things and had a 60L all stainless brewery at one stage. I still have some of the kit, including a 60L vessel and a march pump, but my beers were not any better and my brewday was just getting longer and longer. To top it off the beers were suffering for it as well and I couldnt capture the quality I got on my ghetto system of a 25L willow esky, bucket of death HLT and 30L fermenter with immersion element over the side. I now brew in a 40L crown using BIAB. I have a 3 hour brewday and the beer is some of the best I have ever brewed.
> 
> Keeping it simple brews better beers, not shiny things.



Absolutely spot on Tim.
I was also having issues trying to get my beers as good as the old ghetto system. Not too sure why as everything was identical except the hardware. I'm not sure if it's just me or not, but the amount of malty goodness on top of that mash today was something I haven't seen in a long time. This beer will be fantastic for sure. It's kinda like cooking a steak on a gas BBQ as opposed to a wood fire BBQ. Both get cooked well but there's something a little more special with the wood fired one.


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## Crusty (12/6/12)

RdeVjun said:


> No sweat Crusty, kudos on a job well done!
> IMO those hops should be fine, within reason of course, when diluted, but I presume that the recipe would've been designed for that 1.049, not 1.061. From that unexpectedly high efficiency you're looking at just a few extra litres of wort at the target strength here, but if you leave it undiluted you would perhaps be more likely to have BU:GU issues, 20% more GU.
> However OTOH, more often than not the batches that deviate from the target are the exceptional beers, so I wouldn't knock anyone for trying either way. That's one thing with this caper, there's swings and roundabouts at every turn! I guess the most important thing is, no matter what you'll have loads of great beer and all made quite simply! :icon_cheers:



Will add the desired water volume based on your calculations to bring it back in line to expected OG. I am a little surprised my efficiency was so good, I certainly wasn't expecting it to be as good as it turned out.
Oh, if anyone is looking at buying a MashMaster minimill from Ross, get one. Brilliant mill.

Cheers :icon_cheers:


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## Amber Fluid (13/6/12)

Crusty said:


> Oh, if anyone is looking at buying a MashMaster minimill from Ross, get one. Brilliant mill.
> 
> Cheers :icon_cheers:



Yep have ordered one and am hoping mine will actually be at home tonight when I knock off.  The old Marga just doesn't do the job anymore 

Thanks for the feedback above.


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## chunckious (13/6/12)

I'm think of going down this route and getting a Crown 40l from Craftbrewer.
All the Non/Concealed element with build up and cut outs. I'm getting a sore arse from sitting on the fence.
Single batches suit my needs.


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## Bribie G (13/6/12)

Off topic but how do you attach the mini mill to your bench and does it need to be modded to run off a drill, or does the chuck grab onto it ok?


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## bignath (13/6/12)

Bribie, 

the only thing to really consider with that mill, is that the shaft is half inch drive, so you'll need a drill or motor with a 13mm chuck. Most drills are 10mm chucks.

Awesome mill too by the way, i own one and am very happy with it.

I run it off of an Ozito Spade Handle Drill. Does a brilliant job.


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## nala (13/6/12)

Bribie G said:


> Off topic but how do you attach the mini mill to your bench and does it need to be modded to run off a drill, or does the chuck grab onto it ok?



I have this set-up, using the spade-end drill,more torque than is necessary but you need the chuck holding capacity....13mm.
Attached the whole thing to a base board which locates over a bucket to catch the milled grain,stores away when not in use. The hopper is a water container I got from Office Works, sawed off the bottom,
locate the neck into a hole in the MDF.


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## Bribie G (13/6/12)

Nala, you are a machine in your own right. 

I'll have to get my junior carpentry set out - hope to upgrade from my Marga in about a month.

Cheers


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## Amber Fluid (13/6/12)

Sorry to OP for OT...

Bribie - I am just going to use a drill for a while until I get myself the Motion Dynamics Motor a rod and coupling and modify a 12v server power supply, but am also debating whether the extra $30 for a speed controller is worth it as you can get just the motor here for $30 less which I am more likely to do. I have been researching for a long time now for a good mill and this is what I have come up with. However, a good alternate motor is the same as QldKev uses but both options you are not stuffing around with gearing etc and are not so cumbersome.


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## Crusty (13/6/12)

I have mine mounted to piece of ply & crank by hand, it's not too bad but the drill would be awesome.







I have a hole cut in the baseboard that fits my bucket snugly so it doesn't move or try to make it's way off the bucket.


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## Bribie G (13/6/12)

:icon_offtopic: I'm no mechanic, I can do a bit of simple carpentry at that's about it. When I had a 3cyl Daihatsu Charade I always bought four spark plugs because I knew I was going to crunch one of them and also kept a pack of band aids handy for my inevitable skinned knuckles. On that note, what are spade end drills?


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## Crusty (13/6/12)

Chunkious said:


> I'm think of going down this route and getting a Crown 40l from Craftbrewer.
> All the Non/Concealed element with build up and cut outs. I'm getting a sore arse from sitting on the fence.
> Single batches suit my needs.



I did just that mate, very happy with my decision. I have an exposed element & bought a v-shaped roasting rack off Robin's kitchen ( $16.00 ) to keep the bag off the element & it works very well. I have heard a few people complain about the concealed element cutting out & decided to go for the exposed.


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## Bribie G (13/6/12)

That's exactly the same rack I got from Robins as well. I keep a length of brickies twine attached so I can fish it out before the boil.


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## Deebo (13/6/12)

I have the same one also.. I fish it out with my paint stirrer.. 
God help you if you wedge the legs under the element like I did one time trying to get it out. 
I was just about resigned to leaving it in there for the boil when I somehow magically unhooked it.


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## Tim (13/6/12)

Chunkious said:


> I'm think of going down this route and getting a Crown 40l from Craftbrewer.
> All the Non/Concealed element with build up and cut outs. I'm getting a sore arse from sitting on the fence.
> Single batches suit my needs.



I have the concealed element and I have never had an issue with a cut out. The boil is a gentle roll rather than an agressive one, but it still achieves 10% evaporation. As long as the boil is rolling it is fine. You don't get any hellman points for boiling harder. Any build up on the element cover is easy to clean up as well.


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## Bribie G (13/6/12)

With the concealed element I believe that lagging with a camping mat etc gives a reasonable boil, Mark^Bastard was using that method and no complaints.


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## Crusty (14/6/12)

Crusty said:


> I did just that mate, very happy with my decision. I have an exposed element & bought a v-shaped roasting rack off Robin's kitchen ( $16.00 ) to keep the bag off the element & it works very well. I have heard a few people complain about the concealed element cutting out & decided to go for the exposed.



If anyone is looking to get one of these roasting racks from Ronins kitchen, I don't think they can be found on their website. I contacted the store where I purchased mine & this is them.

Curved roasting rack
Brand: D.Line
Item code no: 105935
$16.99
Call: 1800307717 to order over the phone.
Cheers


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## Crusty (14/6/12)

Pitched a Wyeast 1056 liquid yeast late yesterday & woke up to the sweet sound of a bubbling airlock this morning.
Fermenting away nicely. 
I direct pitched this time instead of the usual starter. 
Cheers


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## bignath (16/6/12)

Bribie G said:


> :icon_offtopic: I'm no mechanic, I can do a bit of simple carpentry at that's about it. When I had a 3cyl Daihatsu Charade I always bought four spark plugs because I knew I was going to crunch one of them and also kept a pack of band aids handy for my inevitable skinned knuckles. On that note, what are spade end drills?



Bribie, i think spade handle drills are designed for mixing concrete. Id believe it judging by how much torque those ozitos have.

I am under the impression they are a proper steel gearbox too. Could be wrong though. 

Bloody thing sounds like a turbine when it starts up!


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## Crusty (18/6/12)

nala said:


> I have this set-up, using the spade-end drill,more torque than is necessary but you need the chuck holding capacity....13mm.
> Attached the whole thing to a base board which locates over a bucket to catch the milled grain,stores away when not in use. The hopper is a water container I got from Office Works, sawed off the bottom,
> locate the neck into a hole in the MDF.
> 
> View attachment 55173



Is this the drill you guys are running on your MashMaster MiniMills?
I am looking at getting one & want to be certain it's the right one.

here

or what model number is it?
Cheers


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## jimmyjackpot (18/6/12)

Crusty said:


> Is this the drill you guys are running on your MashMaster MiniMills?
> I am looking at getting one & want to be certain it's the right one.
> 
> here
> ...



I believe this is the one you are after


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## Spork (18/6/12)

jimmyjackpot said:


> I believe this is the one you are after




Thats the one I use.
Awesome drill, great price.
Also does a great job as a screwdriver - for really big screws.
More torque than my wife's Honda.


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## Bribie G (18/6/12)

Spork said:


> Thats the one I use.
> Awesome drill, great price.
> Also does a great job as a screwdriver - for really big screws.
> More torque than my wife's Honda.






Wow

Well we've derailed Crusty's thread anyway so why not. The thing I spot about that drill is the keyed chuck  
The current cheap Ozito I run the Marga on is keyless and is a PITA, on tightening it up I've taken to wrapping packing tape around the chuck so it won't slip.


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## bignath (18/6/12)

jimmyjackpot said:


> I believe this is the one you are after



Yep, thats the beast. Awesome drill for running a grain mill.


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## Crusty (18/6/12)

Thanks guys.
I'll be heading to Bunnings sometime this week.
Cheers


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## Crusty (26/6/12)

I picked up my Ozito drill yesterday & gave it a whirl on the Mini Mill & it's awesome. Bye bye crank handle. :beerbang: 

I also bottled my first BIAB today, an APA hopped with Centennial & Cascade. Being my first BIAB & not knowing what to expect, I ended up with a much higher OG than expected & slightly less volume so I ended up pitching the yeast after watering the brew down to my starting OG of 1.049 from 1.061. I ended up adding a tad over 4lts to the fermenter & decided to hop tea after a week of fermentation. I worked out that I would need to hop @1g / lt of wort & less trub, I will need 20g of Cascade. I used a 4cup coffee plunger, tossed in 20gms of Cascade & poured boiling water in & let it infuse for 15mins, plunged & poured the hop tea into the fermenter & left it for another week. I had a taste today whilst bottling & I think I am looking down the barrel of the best beer I have ever made. It has a full body, awesome grain flavour & a beautiful hop note to it, it's unbelievable. :icon_drool2: 
So to sum up my first BIAB in a 40lt urn, well I'm totally convinced that BIAB & no chill is awesome. I am so glad I went this route & I am looking to do my next brew ASAP.
Cheers


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## BreathingHeat (26/6/12)

For the record, I have brewed many 8%+ 24 lt final volume BIAB batches with a 40 lt kettle without adding supplementary fermentables. 

I had an 1.080 OG just last Sunday....before adding the candy syrup to the fermenter.


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## Camo1234 (26/6/12)

BreathingHeat said:


> For the record, I have brewed many 8%+ 24 lt final volume BIAB batches with a 40 lt kettle without adding supplementary fermentables.
> 
> I had an 1.080 OG just last Sunday....before adding the candy syrup to the fermenter.



Hey mate, is that in a gas fired kettle or an urn? I think the limitation with the urn is its ability to boil something at 1.80?


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## Bribie G (26/6/12)

Camo1234 said:


> Hey mate, is that in a gas fired kettle or an urn? I think the limitation with the urn is its ability to boil something at 1.80?



Please explain :huh:


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## BreathingHeat (27/6/12)

Camo1234 said:


> Hey mate, is that in a gas fired kettle or an urn? I think the limitation with the urn is its ability to boil something at 1.80?



It's a gas burner, but I don't think the specific gravity should affect your boiling point.


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## Bribie G (27/6/12)

Actually wort will boil at a higher temperature than water if that's the point. Urn can handle it perfectly, in fact RdeVjun and I had a boilover when we did the RIS last year and it was my first ever boilover. <_<


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## danielmanners (3/7/12)

Hi Guys

Apoligise for jumping on this thread, but I found all the information very useful and wanted to ask some questions due to your brewing experience. 
I started off with BIAB with my 40L crown urn, but then switched to a 36L round cooler setup with a RIMS system to recirculate 
and keep the temperature of the wort. The reason why I switched was to recirculated the wort through the grain bed to achieve a clearer wort before boiling. The question is do you recirculate when you BIAB? Also with the drill that you have mentioned, can it be set to turn at low speed and have enough torque to turn the rollers when the grain hopper is full off grain?


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## bignath (3/7/12)

danielmanners said:


> I started off with BIAB with my 40L crown urn, but then switched to a 36L round cooler setup with a RIMS system to recirculate
> and keep the temperature of the wort. The reason why I switched was to recirculated the wort through the grain bed to achieve a clearer wort before boiling. The question is do you recirculate when you BIAB? Also with the drill that you have mentioned, can it be set to turn at low speed and have enough torque to turn the rollers when the grain hopper is full off grain?



Hi mate, and welcome to the forum..

Firstly, that drill is excellent. I use one of them. Insame amounts of torque. I have had 7-9 grain bills in my hopper and it has no problem starting from stop. You certainly don't need to start the drill before loading the hopper. My drill actually tries to lift my hopper and lid assembly off of my catching bucket with 6kg of grain in it. You will not stop this drill anytime soon. I'ts intended (i think) for mixing concrete and i'm led to believe that it has a proper steel gearbox, but don't quote me on that last bit of info.

RE: Recirculating BIAB. 

Yep, it may have been done before....by more than a few of us...  

Have a look below in my signature, there's a thread i started with my take on the whole thing. Personally, i don't recirculate my BIAB rig to gain clarity of wort, but rather maintain temp. I'm coming from 3V brewing though, and all i really wanted was to simplify my setup, cleaning, pack down, storage space required etc... which is why i went with my system. Can still be used as a HLT in my 3V rig though so i can go back to my old ways with the drop of a hat.

use google search and type in things like "biab rims" "recirculating single vessel" etc and you'll find truckloads of info on other brewers builds.

Cheers,

nath


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## Crusty (7/7/12)

danielmanners said:


> Hi Guys
> 
> Apoligise for jumping on this thread, but I found all the information very useful and wanted to ask some questions due to your brewing experience.
> I started off with BIAB with my 40L crown urn, but then switched to a 36L round cooler setup with a RIMS system to recirculate
> and keep the temperature of the wort. The reason why I switched was to recirculated the wort through the grain bed to achieve a clearer wort before boiling. The question is do you recirculate when you BIAB? Also with the drill that you have mentioned, can it be set to turn at low speed and have enough torque to turn the rollers when the grain hopper is full off grain?



I went from igloo cooler mash tun to PID controlled 3V rims & now BIAB in a 40L urn. So many people believe that for some reason, you need crystal clear wort into the boil kettle for optimum results. This is just plain nonsense. Will you get a better beer by having clear wort to the boiler? Of course not, it's makes absolutely diddly squat of difference. My last BIAB was quite turbid into the boiler & has been bottled for just over a week & it's crystal clear. I use nothing for clarity except kopperfloc 10min from the end of the boil.
I have the mentioned drill also & with the MashMaster MiniMill, you could crush rocks to dust, it's got so much torque & can run really slowly with the hopper full of grain. Great drill.


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## RdeVjun (8/7/12)

danielmanners, IMO amateurs' pre- boil clarity is largely meaningless and of no consequence, if you have a think about what happens during any boil (aggregation of proteins and other complexes), after which it usually sits for half an hour during which time particulates settle, then it begs the question of why we would care about the runnings' clarity if the vast majority of it stays in the kettle? Having said that, this thread has some technical info on the topic that is worthwhile reading. Lots of folks will marvel quite vocally at their clear runnings however directly linking that to any particular attributes of the resulting beer is tenuous at best, even the professionals around here have said as much. I'd also point to the BIAB competition successes over recent years, says to me that the method isn't flawed as might be suggested by critics of turbid run off.
To answer your actual question though, no most BIABers don't recirculate at any point, a great many BIABers are keen to eliminate the added complexity of lautering, recirculation etc. Those that do recirculate are numerous though, as per Big Nath's post.


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## Crusty (10/7/12)

Second BIAB complete, another APA. Target for recipe was 23lt batch, 70% efficiency. 
I ended up with 20.5lt into the no chill cube with 2.5lt trub loss. Volume was spot on, 23lt but gravity was better than expected with 1.056 instead of 1.046. This gives me a mash efficiency of 85% & a brewhause efficiency of 76%. I will have to adjust my recipes now to 75% efficiency. The brew day went perfectly without a hitch. BIAB in the urn is so easy & I am now sampling my first APA that has been bottled for two weeks, very, very nice beer. Like the last APA, I will have to dilute with about 4.2lt water to achieve my 1.046 starting gravity in the fermenter & again I will hop tea this one with 1g/lt of cascade hops. 
Cheers


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## Bribie G (10/7/12)

I agree re the wort clarity. 

As there has been some discussion about mills here, I bought a new Marga last week to replace my dead one (drive shaft was stuffed, I'd bought it second hand anyway). There is a gap "control wheel" which comes with a few factory drilled holes for fine flour, coarser flour, groats etc. This is a flour mill so to do a gap for barley crushing you need to drill an additional hole like this guy did on the 
"Modding a Marga" thread. 





As a shortcut I just used the control wheel from the old marga which a previous owner had drilled exactly as in the photo. However while I had it all apart I thought "hmmmmmmm.." and drilled a hole midway between the homebrew crush hole and the groats hole. 

Like the OP I've been running on around 74% efficiency but the crush with the new setting got me 86% - as Tidal Pete is my witness  

No problems at all with draining the BIAB bag. I'll keep an eye on this in case that was a fluke, but I'll be going the finer crush from now on. Obviously the coarser crush is more suited to 3v etc where set mashes can be a problem.


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## Crusty (10/7/12)

Crusty said:


> Second BIAB complete, another APA. Target for recipe was 23lt batch, 70% efficiency.
> I ended up with 20.5lt into the no chill cube with 2.5lt trub loss. Volume was spot on, 23lt but gravity was better than expected with 1.056 instead of 1.046. This gives me a mash efficiency of 85% & a brewhause efficiency of 76%. I will have to adjust my recipes now to 75% efficiency. The brew day went perfectly without a hitch. BIAB in the urn is so easy & I am now sampling my first APA that has been bottled for two weeks, very, very nice beer. Like the last APA, I will have to dilute with about 4.2lt water to achieve my 1.046 starting gravity in the fermenter & again I will hop tea this one with 1g/lt of cascade hops.
> Cheers



It seems I was actually measuring my efficiency incorrectly. I was not including my 2.5lt loss to trub & chiller, so 23lt @1.056 gives me 85% efficiency. Very happy with that.


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## hughman666 (10/7/12)

I went from a great 3V system to my brewbot, which is really just BIAB tuned up a little. The main reason was the space restriction on moving to an inner-city townhouse.

As far as benefits of a 3V vs BIAB go, I would say the 3V system gave me more scale. The ability to brew high gravity batches using 10kg+ of grain to increase output. i know this is technically possible with BIAB but in reality it is pushing a system beyond its intended design and is a pain in the ass. Doing a 10kg batch allowed me to produce 40L+ of finished beer.

It's then also easy to upgrade from there with a 3V system, increasing the kettle size etc. all the way up to 100L+.

With my brewbot I am limited to single batches - no big deal for me personally these days. I could always upgrade by adding a second element to increase heating output but the limitation is around the mash basket.

The difference between the two methods is no big deal until you get to the 50L+ batch output, then it becomes a clear decision to go 3V - or buy a 200L+ Braumeister...the hoist thing is still a bit of a worry there though IMHO


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