# Style Of The Week 26/7/06 - Dunkelweizen



## Stuster (26/7/06)

This week it's the dark wheat beers, Dunkelweizen, style 15B on the BJCP guidelines.

There have been a few threads on this, so you can have a click here, or here, or here for the wisdom of the ages.

So what advice can all those who have brewed this style give us? Recipes, grains, tins, hops, importantly the yeast, commercial versions to try etc etc?

So let's brew better beer.  



> 15B. Dunkelweizen
> 
> Aroma: Moderate to strong phenols (usually clove) and fruity esters (usually banana). The balance and intensity of the phenol and ester components can vary but the best examples are reasonably balanced and fairly prominent. Optionally, a low to moderate vanilla character and/or low bubblegum notes may be present, but should not dominate. Noble hop character ranges from low to none. A light to moderate wheat aroma (which might be perceived as bready or grainy) may be present and is often accompanied by a caramel, bread crust, or richer malt aroma (e.g., from Vienna and/or Munich malt). Any malt character is supportive and does not overpower the yeast character. No diacetyl or DMS. A light tartness is optional but acceptable.
> 
> ...


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## Dr Gonzo (26/7/06)

60% Weyermann Wheat
40% Weyerman Munich
mash in 35C
heat to 50C over 15 min
1st decoction: 20 min rest @ 70C, 20 min boil
rest: 20 min @ 64C
2nd decoction as per 1st.
rest: 20 min @ 70C
raise temp to 75C over 10 min
sparge very slowly
2 hour boil
Hersbrucker @ 60 min to 15 IBU
3068 yeast


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## tangent (26/7/06)

I can vouch for tasting Dr's beers, so I'd be writing that down brewers! 
No sh!t, this bloke brews some excellent beer. <_< jealousy


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## wee stu (26/7/06)

Dr Gonzo is a man of few words, but his Weizens approach legendary amounts of grin factor   

Here's hoping one or two of these dark little beauties make it to the Adelaide Brewers in Winemakers next Tuesday :beer:


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## tangent (26/7/06)

i'm thinking of buying a square metre of land......
just in front of his fridge!


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## DrewCarey82 (26/7/06)

Stuster an idea for these to get all level of brewers interested would be to find a kit recipe, partial recipe and AG recipe.


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## Stuster (26/7/06)

DC, I have in a way. The links in my original post are to earlier threads. The first one is mainly AG. In the second one Weizguy suggests how to do a kit based Dunkelweizen and a partial recipe. The third has AG and partial stuff in.

The only commercial version of this style I have had was a Weihenstephaner Hefeweissbier Dunkel. I'm not sure if it's a good example of the style but personally I'm not sure if I really like the wheat beer esters with dark malt deal. It was ok but I wouldn't be rushing out to make it. Any other examples to convert me?


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## Josh (26/7/06)

I'm heading to the Lowenbrau at the Rocks in Sydney on Saturday night. Are there any examples there I can try?


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## Steve (26/7/06)

Never actually tried one. But after reading about them they do sound very tasty....but then again its beer oclock and I'll drink anything at the moment.  
The third link to cubbies partial recipes looks very inviting.
Cheers
Steve


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## Dr Gonzo (26/7/06)

Hofbrau is ok.
Erdinger is ok.
Weinstephaner is ok.
Schneider weisse rocks. They call it a hefe, but it seems dark enough to be a dunkel to me.
Aventinus (schneider) is the best beer on earth, but is a dunkelweisenbock (8% alc).


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## facter (26/7/06)

Ahh.

I made a keg of Raspberry Dunkel for a small party we had....


It lasted all of 45 minutes.




My favorite style.


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (27/7/06)

Last week I tried Franziskaner Hefe-Weisse Dunkel on draught and it was really outstanding.
I certainly think this is a beer I will attempt to clone in the future.

C&B
TDA


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## Whistlingjack (27/7/06)

I love weizen!

Just sampling my first AG...a hefeweizen. Sort of dark, Promash says its 11.1 SRM, not quite dark enough to be called dunkel.

Being new to AG, I used a single infusion mash with a slow sparge.

50% Weyermann wheat

41.7% Weyermann pilsener

8.3% Caramunich

IBU 17 with Hallertau hops additions at 80min and 15min.

Liked it so much, I'm into the final hour of my second go at this recipe as I type!

Edit: My favourite...Paulaner Weissbier Dunkel ($AUD1.70 per litre in Germany)


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## Trent (27/7/06)

I'm with TDA
On one of the VERY rare times I venture to Sydney, my mate dragged me to the Bavarian Beer Bar at the Manly ferry wharf, where we indulged in the Franziskaner hefe-weisse, pale and Dunkel. Not cheap there, by any stretch of the imagination, but it was definitely a tasty drop. Would recommend trying that one for sure Stuster
All the best
Trent


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## jimi (27/7/06)

I love the style! 
Have had three cracks at. All nice, but I couldn't get the bananna I was looking for. Anyone got tips on this? (I used wlp300 each time)

I have heard that less aeration of wort and even slightly underpitching yeast helps with this, but wasn't game to try as it just didn't feel right <_<


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## Whistlingjack (27/7/06)

jimi

I used the yeast recultured from a bottle of Hofbrau Munchner Kindl Hefeweizen. Managed to get the right flavours with it. Tried the Paulaner, but it failed.

Or you could try the Wyeast Weihenstephan, I think.


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## jimi (27/7/06)

wlp300 was apparently used in the JS hefe, though I never tried it. Did anyone try this beer and how did it rate in the Bananna side of things?

WJ- Thanks mate I'll keep that yeast in mind for my next shot at a Dunkelweizen


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## Darren (27/7/06)

tangent said:


> I can vouch for tasting Dr's beers, so I'd be writing that down brewers!
> No sh!t, this bloke brews some excellent beer. <_< jealousy




Yes, his wheats have ALL the attributes a good wheat should have. His APA isn't a bad drop too.

cheers

Darren


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## Dr Gonzo (27/7/06)

Jimi,
Can't vouch for the white labs yeasts, as iv'e never tried them.
As for the wyeast:
3333 is a great yeast, but no real banana esters. Very tart though.
3068 gives a good balance of banana & clove,
but the 3638 is the go if banana is what you're after.
Most beers i have made with 3638 have ended up too much banana for my liking.


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## Josh (28/7/06)

jimi said:


> wlp300 was apparently used in the JS hefe, though I never tried it. Did anyone try this beer and how did it rate in the Bananna side of things?


Was there only one wheat beer made by JS? The one I tasted had more clove than banana. I'm guessing due to lower fermentation temps but I may be wrong here.

My understanding is lower ferm = clove, higher ferm = banana. Not sure where the happy medium would be along the temperature range if you like a bit of both. I made a few nice wheats using the WL Hefe yeast a few years back. From memory I fermented at 20-22C. And the flavours weren't too overpowering.

If I am wrong then disregard everything above B)


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## colinw (28/7/06)

THE DRUNK ARAB said:


> Last week I tried Franziskaner Hefe-Weisse Dunkel on draught and it was really outstanding.
> I certainly think this is a beer I will attempt to clone in the future.
> 
> C&B
> TDA


Hey, TDA, I just put your signature into the Google translator, and it said:
"Orphan mother son Capricorn" :blink:

Franziskaner is a fantastic example - their normal pale hefe is great too.

Alas, I am yet to make a good version of a dunkelweizen, although my hefes are generally quite good. Can't seem to get the banana/clove & malt balance right in the dunkels I've made.


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (28/7/06)

colinw said:


> THE DRUNK ARAB said:
> 
> 
> > Last week I tried Franziskaner Hefe-Weisse Dunkel on draught and it was really outstanding.
> ...



LOL Colin  !

It should translate to "I am a slut for beer"

C&B
TDA


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## THE DRUNK ARAB (28/7/06)

colinw said:


> THE DRUNK ARAB said:
> 
> 
> > Last week I tried Franziskaner Hefe-Weisse Dunkel on draught and it was really outstanding.
> ...



LOL Colin  !

It should translate to "I am a sl*t for beer"

C&B
TDA


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## chillamacgilla73 (26/9/06)

I am going to try a dunkel weizen as my second ever AG brew. I have previously brewed a PM Dunkelweizenbock that was excellent and I managed to get good banana flavours fermenting @ 21C using WLP300(Pitched @ 13C).

Would using the same fermentation technique(Temp, no starter etc) result in the same banana flavours in a dunkelweizen when you consider the OG will be 20 points lower?


Pic attached from recent trip to UK - Mrs Macgilla was shopping, again, so ms Macgilla stopped at The Flask in Highgate Village for a pint of Erdinger and an orange juice.


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## Tony (26/9/06)

Love em

One of my fav styles to drink.

Decoction mashed and brewed with 3068 its great.

here is a pic of mine........ the recipe is in the recipe gallery on this site.

and yess.... thats a 1 liter oktoberfest stein :super: 

cheers


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## lucas (6/4/07)

Dr Gonzo said:


> 60% Weyermann Wheat
> 40% Weyerman Munich
> mash in 35C
> heat to 50C over 15 min
> ...


lot of people vouching on this recipe, so i might have a crack at this. only problem i can see is that I cant directly heat my mash tun. would this translate ok into batch sparging?


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## Dr Gonzo (7/4/07)

Lucas,

An alternative to direct heating the mash:

Mash in thick at 2:1 water/grain for 35C rest. Stir well for a couple of minutes.
Start adding infusions of boiling water (kettle) over the next 10-15 minutes
until you get to 50C. Stir thorughly with each addition.
By the time you get to 50C you should be around 3:1 water/grain.
Give it about 15-20 min at 50C before you pull the first decoction.

If you have the room in your mash tun, then you could mash out with an infusion.
Otherwise a third decoction will do it. The mashout decoction should be all liquid, no grain.

Batch sparging is fine. You could probably even skip the mashout with a batch sparge.
Just have your sparge water hot enough to get a mashout temp.

The grain bill quoted is quite low on the colour side for dunkelweizen.
My last one i used:
55% wheat
34% munich 2
10% caramunich 2
1% chocolate 
Much better.
Dark wheat would be good too. I'll be trying that next time.


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## Weizguy (7/4/07)

The last time I made a Dunkelweizen, I was talked into adding Carafa I, but I will avoid it next time, as it tatsed like a choc-weizen...
Also used dark wheat malt, and that may have added enough colour.
Decocted, of course.  

Either way, the beer went down well at celebration and the keg lost weight rapidly.

The recipe (name generated here) is:

*Paul Newman's Retarded Black Pufferfish Bavarian Dunkelweizen*
Brew Type: All Grain Date: 28-10-06 
Style: Dunkelweizen Brewer: Seth 
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Volume: 29.17 L Boil Time: 60 min 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 % Equipment: Plastic 50 litre Esky and 45 litre S/S kettle 
Actual Efficiency: 68.5 % 

Ingredients Amount Item Type IBU 
3.50 kg Wheat Malt, Dark (Weyermann) (13.8 EBC) Grain
1.00 kg Pilsner - Bohemian (4.0 EBC) Grain 
0.30 kg Carafa I (Weyermann) (630.4 EBC) Grain
0.30 kg Caramel Wheat Malt (90.6 EBC) Grain
0.30 kg Caramunich I (Weyermann) (100.5 EBC) Grain
0.30 kg Melanoidin (Weyermann) (59.1 EBC) Grain
0.30 kg Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain
12.00 gm Perle [6.80%] (60 min) Hops 7.2 IBU 
28.30 gm Tettnang [4.50%] (30 min) Hops 5.9 IBU 

Measured Original Gravity: 1.055 SG 
Measured Final Gravity: 1.012 SG 
Estimated Color: 48.0 EBC
Bitterness: 13.1 IBU (10.0-18.0 IBU)
Actual Alcohol by Volume: 5.6 % 


Mash Profile Name: Decoction Mash, Double Mash Tun Weight: 4.00 kg 
Mash Grain Weight: 6.00 kg Mash PH: 5.4 PH 
Grain Temperature: 22.2 C Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C 
Sparge Water: 11.68 L Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE 

Name Description Step Temp and Step Time 
Mash in Add 15.00 L of water at 41.0 C 38.0 C 5 min 
Protein Rest Add 6.50 L of water at 87.1 C 51.0 C 35 min 
Saccharification Decoct 6.90 L of mash and boil it 63.9 C 20 min 
Saccharification Decoct 5.88 L of mash and boil it 72.0 C 30 min 
Mash Out Add 2.00 L of water and heat to 75.6 C over 10 min 75.6 C 10 min 

Seth


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## therook (20/2/08)

Bringing up an old thread as i'm thinking of doing this on Saturday.

Any thoughts and opinions welcome.

Dark Willie Wheat
Brew Type: All Grain Date: 23/02/2008 
Style: Dunkelweizen Brewer: Rook 
Batch Size: 27.00 L Assistant Brewer: 
Boil Volume: 34.30 L Boil Time: 90 min 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 % Equipment: Brew Pot (12.5 gal) and Igloo Cooler (10 Gal) 
Actual Efficiency: 14.1 % 
Taste Rating (50 possible points): 35.0

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU 
3.50 kg Wheat Malt (Barrett Burston) (3.0 EBC) Grain 56.9 % 
2.00 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 32.5 % 
0.30 kg Melanoidin (Weyermann) (59.1 EBC) Grain 4.9 % 
0.28 kg Carawheat (Weyermann) (120.0 EBC) Grain 4.6 % 
0.07 kg Carafa Special III (Weyermann) (1400.0 EBC) Grain 1.1 % 
50.00 gm Tettnang [3.00%] (60 min) Hops 14.1 IBU 
1 Pkgs SafLager German Lager (DCL Yeast #S-189) Yeast-Lager 

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.050 SG (1.044-1.056 SG) 
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.012 SG (1.010-1.014 SG) 
Estimated Color: 29.9 EBC (27.6-45.3 EBC)
Bitterness: 14.1 IBU (10.0-18.0 IBU) 
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 4.9 % (4.3-5.6 %) 



Mash Profile Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Mash Tun Weight: 4.08 kg 
Mash Grain Weight: 6.15 kg Mash PH: 5.4 PH 
Grain Temperature: 22.2 C Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C 
Sparge Water: 27.46 L Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE 

Name Description Step Temp Step Time 
Mash In Add 16.00 L of water at 73.5 C 67.0 C 90 min 

Rook


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## warrenlw63 (20/2/08)

Yum! :icon_chickcheers: 

Warren -


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## therook (20/2/08)

One error, i'm using WB-06 yeast not S189

Rook


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## kabooby (20/2/08)

I brewed this a few months ago and on the last of it now.

Its pretty similar to yours. I did a 3 step infusion mash

Personally I would have prefered it with a bit more dark malt character. Its a good mix between dark malt and the yeast flavours of clove and banana, which is to style.

This is for a 40l batch

5.00 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (3.5 EBC) Grain 57.47 % 
2.00 kg Munich, Light (Joe White) (17.7 EBC) Grain 22.99 % 
0.80 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (3.2 EBC) Grain 9.20 % 
0.60 kg Caramalt (Joe White) (49.3 EBC) Grain 6.90 % 
0.30 kg Carafa Special III (Weyermann) (925.9 EBC) Grain 3.45 % 
60.00 gm Tettnang [4.50 %] (45 min) Hops 15.2 IBU 
15.00 gm Tettnang [4.50 %] (15 min) Hops 2.1 IBU 
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Weihenstephan Weizen (Wyeast Labs #3068) Yeast-Wheat 

Maybe add a bit more Carafa special 3

Kabooby


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## mika (20/2/08)

What temps did you aim for ? What was your final grist water ratio if you did it all by infusions ?


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## kabooby (21/2/08)

Here it is Mika. Why do you ask?

30 min Protein Rest Add 17.12 L of water at 55.6 C to achieve 50.0 C 
60 min Saccrification Add 15.25 L of water at 91.8 C to achieve 67.8 C 
10 min Mash Out Add 13.32 L of water at 96.4 C to achieve 75.6 C 

Kabooby


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## mika (21/2/08)

Just by doing it with infsions your water/grist ratios can go out the window.
I've got one of these scheduled on the brewing roster...for some time 
I was planning to do a 3 step decoction, just to make my life hell, so curious what everyone else is doing. There was some discussion about resting a lot lower, ~45degs for better ferulic acid production, more clove in the beer.
The last wheat I brewed got fermented with 3068 and I wasn't real impressed with the results...wanted it Bigger, Bolder...just MORE!


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## cliffo (23/5/08)

To save starting a new thread, I will be kegging a dunkelweizen in the next few days....

....should I filter this beer or transfer straight into the keg and leave it cloudy?

cliffo


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## kabooby (23/5/08)

Personally I wouldn't filter it. I dont filter any of my beers. I have a keg of hefe on at the moment that I turn once a week just to keep the yeast in suspension

Its up to you though at the end of the day. You will be drinking it


kabooby


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## drsmurto (9/2/10)

Read this thread several times in the last week or 2 as well as the links in the OP and sifted through the recipes in the DB.

Here is what i came up with. Planning on brewing this on the weekend. 1st dunkelweizen and only 3rd wheat beer ever.

20L

2.50 kg Wheat Malt, Dark (Weyermann) (13.8 EBC) Grain 56.82 % 
1.50 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) Grain 34.09 % 
0.30 kg Caramel Wheat (Weyermann) (115.0 EBC) Grain 6.82 % 
0.10 kg Chocolate Wheat (Weyermann) (1100.0 EBC) Grain 2.27 % 
55.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [2.30 %] (60 min) Hops 16.2 IBU 
Wyeast 3638 

OG 1.048
IBU 16
EBC 39

Double decoction 50/64/70 with a decoction mashout.

Comments from the dunkelweizen gurus?


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## moovet (8/4/10)

Hi all.

Am looking to put one of these down this weekend but worried that the krausen produced will be too big for my 30L fermenter. Would you guys recommend going to a 50-60L for brewing this and other hefeweizens?

Cheers,


M


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## Dazza_devil (8/4/10)

About 1/3 headspace in a 30 litre fermenter and a blow-off tube should do the trick. I did a 24 litre batch which made a bit off mess but nothing a blow-off tube doesn't fix.


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## vykuza (8/4/10)

DrSmurto said:


> Read this thread several times in the last week or 2 as well as the links in the OP and sifted through the recipes in the DB.
> 
> Here is what i came up with. Planning on brewing this on the weekend. 1st dunkelweizen and only 3rd wheat beer ever.
> 
> ...




How did this one come out Doc?


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## drsmurto (8/4/10)

Funnily enough i kegged it on the weekend.

Not sure about it. I don't think its the recipe, it's me and wheat beers. We don't get along.  

The aroma is dominated by cloves. Not really doing it for me. I like the flavour though, its malty, dry with a slight caramel/coffee taste although the finish is a bit weird. 

I wonder if burning the rice hulls/grain during the decoctions has imparted a slightly astringent flavour to it. I added the rice hulls at mash in rather than mash out. Wasn't thinking and rarely use them. Pity i was doing a decoction demo for some of the local AMB brethren. They got a laugh.  

The AMB crew are gathering at my place on the weekend so i will have more feedback to give next week. Poor buggers get to eat german snags from the barossa and drink my 3 german dark beers - this dunkelweizen, a munich dunkel and the reason for the gathering - a dusseldorf altbier which is the challenge recipe that several of us brewed and will be judged. Tough life we live here in Adelaide


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## vykuza (8/4/10)

DrSmurto said:


> Funnily enough i kegged it on the weekend.
> 
> Not sure about it. I don't think its the recipe, it's me and wheat beers. We don't get along.
> 
> ...




Would love the feedback from the AMB crew. The recipe looks the goods from where I'm sitting. What temp did you ferment at?


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## drsmurto (8/4/10)

Nick R said:


> Would love the feedback from the AMB crew. The recipe looks the goods from where I'm sitting. What temp did you ferment at?



19C from memory. Was worried it would climb out of the fermenter so aimed for the lower end of the temp range.


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## drsmurto (13/4/10)

Nick R said:


> Would love the feedback from the AMB crew. The recipe looks the goods from where I'm sitting. What temp did you ferment at?



The BJCP study group tasted it after tasting the Weihenstephaner Hefeweissbier Dunkel and the feedback was encouraging.

The esters people were getting were a combination of clove and green banana? (as opposed to ripe banana). Nice and malty. Less clove and more banana than the weihenstephaner. Since i used the bavarian yeast (WY3638) thats not surprising.

It has changed in the last week as i tried to run it through a filter (bye bye filter). Its much cleaner and cleaner in flavour than it was pre-filtration. 

I'll be brewing this again soon and will probably use it as the basis for a roggen as well.


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## vykuza (13/4/10)

DrSmurto said:


> The BJCP study group tasted it after tasting the Weihenstephaner Hefeweissbier Dunkel and the feedback was encouraging.
> 
> The esters people were getting were a combination of clove and green banana? (as opposed to ripe banana). Nice and malty. Less clove and more banana than the weihenstephaner. Since i used the bavarian yeast (WY3638) thats not surprising.
> 
> ...




Excellent! Thanks for the feedback DrSmurto. Looks like a winner to me, I'll give the recipe a shot.

Thanks again


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## cubbie (2/7/10)

Folks I am looking at this grain bill for my Dunkelweizen, thoughts? I will not be doing a decoction mash,

Grain/Extract/Sugar

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 24.00 Wort Size (L): 24.00
Total Grain (kg): 5.40
Anticipated OG: 1.053 Plato: 13.18
Anticipated EBC: 32.8
Anticipated IBU: 0.0
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
55.6 3.00 kg. Weyermann Pale Wheat Germany 1.038 4
18.5 1.00 kg. Weyermann Vienna Germany 1.038 7
18.5 1.00 kg. Weyermann Munich I Germany 1.038 15
2.8 0.15 kg. Weyermann Melanoidin Germany 1.037 70
1.9 0.10 kg. Weyermann Carafa Special III Germany 1.035 1300
2.8 0.15 kg. Weyermann CaraWheat Germany 1.037 120


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