# Retail-low Prices



## Back Yard Brewer (9/7/08)

I have been following the RETAIL Craftbrewer Goes Liquid  with much amusement. It is amusing because of some of the negative posts. I mean you just can't please everyone. When someone sells a product at an extremely good price and be that what ever, some parts of the world cry fowl :wacko: There seems to be this myth that there is a catch. Having myself been involved with a bussiness and contimplating another sometime in the future I can relate to cheap prices. To me its about sustaining your market share. Who's been to a supermarket bought a bargain and then said "shit I might as well get that as well" I know I have. The same reasoning can apply to any bussiness. Yes the Wyeast from Craftbrewer is bloody cheap and personally knowing what the wholesale price is, yes there is bugger all mark up. Thats where my previous statement comes into effect (market share). What does urk me as a consumer is when any bussiness wants to corner a market and be that whatever market. My LHBS sells their activator packs for $17.50!! needless to say I don't shop there. Personally down here in S.A I will try and look after the little blokes like Beerbelly, Bake and Brew e.t.c by which I have no afilliation with either. The little bloke hopefully will keep the big ones honest  I have dealt with Ross and his service is exceptional and have no quams in dealing again when necessary. So cheap prices - no problems here!!!

BYB


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## Online Brewing Supplies (9/7/08)

Back Yard Brewer said:


> I have been following the RETAIL Craftbrewer Goes Liquid  with much amusement. It is amusing because of some of the negative posts. I mean you just can't please everyone. When someone sells a product at an extremely good price and be that what ever, some parts of the world cry fowl :wacko: There seems to be this myth that there is a catch. Having myself been involved with a bussiness and contimplating another sometime in the future I can relate to cheap prices. To me its about sustaining your market share. Who's been to a supermarket bought a bargain and then said "shit I might as well get that as well" I know I have. The same reasoning can apply to any bussiness. Yes the Wyeast from Craftbrewer is bloody cheap and personally knowing what the wholesale price is, yes there is bugger all mark up. Thats where my previous statement comes into effect (market share). What does urk me as a consumer is when any bussiness wants to corner a market and be that whatever market. My LHBS sells their activator packs for $17.50!! needless to say I don't shop there. Personally down here in S.A I will try and look after the little blokes like Beerbelly, Bake and Brew e.t.c by which I have no afilliation with either. The little bloke hopefully will keep the big ones honest  I have dealt with Ross and his service is exceptional and have no quams in dealing again when necessary. So cheap prices - no problems here!!!
> 
> BYB


You raise so very valid points there,I dont want a woolworths /coles senario happening in the HB scene.You know go in cheap and then later you cant get a choice because every body has been put out of business.I would like to stay in Business but I have to make a profit to keep the door open.I dont have money to burn like woolworths.I offer the best prices I can ..Every body wants a bargain but do you want a choice a well ?
GB My 2c worth
GB


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## SJW (9/7/08)

Keep talking like this and Ross will up his Wyeast price to $15.95 just to make everyone happy


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## Ross (9/7/08)

SJW said:


> Keep talking like this and Ross will up his Wyeast price to $15.95 just to make everyone happy




tempting...very tempting B) 

cheers Ross


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## Batz (9/7/08)

I am sure no retailer likes to be under-cut.
This is why you don't see many bulk buys on this site anymore,there still happening but on a quieter note...wink wink ..nudge nudge..say no more!


Batz


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## pablo_h (9/7/08)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> You raise so very valid points there,I dont want a woolworths /coles senario happening in the HB scene.You know go in cheap and then later you cant get a choice because every body has been put out of business.I would like to stay in Business but I have to make a profit to keep the door open.I dont have money to burn like woolworths.I offer the best prices I can ..Every body wants a bargain but do you want a choice a well ?
> GB My 2c worth
> GB


Cheers, You've been the cheapest store for a long time anyway. You're not going to lose any WA business because your prices are good, (they were the lowest for Wyeast anyway beforehand, and probably still are for hops and postage costs).


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## sinkas (9/7/08)

Back Yard Brewer said:


> cry fowl :wacko:



ROFL, thems damned poultry


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## Online Brewing Supplies (9/7/08)

sinkas said:


> ROFL, thems damned poultry


Mate I like a laugh as much as you ( and I could do with one) but I just dont get it? Enlighten the ignorant.ROTHF wondering. :huh: 
GB


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## Black Dog Brewery (9/7/08)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Mate I like a laugh as much as you ( and I could do with one) but I just dont get it? Enlighten the ignorant.ROTHF wondering. :huh:
> GB


 

I would have to agree. To quote the wikipedia ...."As opposed to "fowl", "poultry", on the other hand, is a term for any kind of domesticated bird or bird captive-raised for meat or eggs; ostriches for example are sometimes kept as poultry, but are neither gamefowl nor waterfowl. In colloquial speech, the term "fowl" is however often used near-synonymously with "poultry" or even "bird", and many languages do not distinguish between "poultry" and "fowl". Nonetheless, the fact that Galliformes and Anseriformes most likely form a monophyletic group makes a distinction between "fowl" and "poultry" warranted."

While the attempt to associate a fowl with poultry was evident they are clearly not the same thing, Im not laughing ......  :lol: 


Cheers BDB


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## Boozy the clown (9/7/08)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Mate I like a laugh as much as you ( and I could do with one) but I just dont get it? Enlighten the ignorant.ROTHF wondering. :huh:
> GB






> QUOTE (Back Yard Brewer @ Jul 9 2008, 07:11 PM)
> cry fowl
> 
> 
> ROFL, thems damned poultry




Don't think he can - may set feathers flying...


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## sinkas (9/7/08)

GB, the geezer who started this thread, made a error of using Fowl, a bird, instead of foul, when exclaiming that people where "crying fowl"

It was very funny, but you had the be there.


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## alexbrand (9/7/08)

Funny topics here in the forums... really...

in Germany I pay 5.49 for a smack pack of Wyeast. This ist AUD 9.04. I think shipping to Germany from the US is more expensive than to Oz.... but well... what makes you all so sure that all the HBS have to pay the same price to Wyeast? Doesn't anyone think the conditions vary depending on the amount of packs the HBS buys?

Okay... had to say this...

Alex


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## Adamt (9/7/08)

The key in this whole debate was brought up in the thread. I can almost guarantee that Ross has purchased a massive order (compared to other Aussie retailers) and has secured a much better price.

If Ross can keep afloat selling at that price, good on him. He'll sell lots of yeast.

People need to stop mixing business with personal preference and emotion.


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## bconnery (10/7/08)

I don't know that Ross's order will be that much larger than some of the bigger retailers around, the little stores yes. 
I also don't believe that shipping is that much more expensive to Germany than to here, which makes Ross's price against that quoted in the post above very similar and reasonable. 
The key to this whole point in my book is the difference in rate with the US dollar. 
Whether you take the view that Ross is entering at a time when the dollar is at near parity and thus has an advantage in what he can offer or whether you point out that despite a large change over time in the exchange rate we haven't seen a large change in yeast price I believe this is a major factor in the price offered, Ross even said so in the retail thread. 

A few posts have discussed supporting the little guys but with Craftbrewer we are not exactly talking about a multi national corporation here. This is a business that until recently employed two people one of whom was his his son.
It now employs a massive three....

If someone wants to bring the price for liquid yeasts in Australia to a level more comparable to what the rest of the world pays, US aside, I realise we can't have it that good, then I for one will support them!


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## Back Yard Brewer (10/7/08)

bconnery said:


> The key to this whole point in my book is the difference in rate with the US dollar.
> Whether you take the view that Ross is entering at a time when the dollar is at near parity and thus has an advantage in what he can offer or whether you point out that despite a large change over time in the exchange rate we haven't seen a large change in yeast price I believe this is a major factor in the price offered, Ross even said so in the retail thread.




Yes that is an interesting statement, one I have pondered. Keeping that in mind does that mean other imported items should also come down a little in price as well :unsure: 

BYB


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## bconnery (10/7/08)

Back Yard Brewer said:


> Yes that is an interesting statement, one I have pondered. Keeping that in mind does that mean other imported items should also come down a little in price as well :unsure:
> 
> BYB


Depends a lot on whether they were marked up much to begin with, and on what other factors there are. 
If we are talking US hops for example then demand will probably keep them higher. 

Non brewing related items on the other hand... well who cares


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## Cortez The Killer (10/7/08)

Surely there is an opportunity for some enterprising individuals to start packaging and selling their own liquid yeasts in Australia

I'd imagine it'd take a little bit in set up costs but it wouldn't be too hard for people with some lab experience

And the brewing market seems to be ever expanding

Just a thought 

Cheers


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## Screwtop (10/7/08)

Cortez The Killer said:


> Surely there is an opportunity for some enterprising individuals to start packaging and selling their own liquid yeasts in Australia
> 
> I'd imagine it'd take a little bit in set up costs but it wouldn't be too hard for people with some lab experience
> 
> ...




Hmmm, a quick MA:

Maybe 1500Ag brewers in OZ, maybe 70% using liquid yeast, maybe 30% not yeast banking and using first gen yeast. Say a round 1000 AG brewers and maybe 1000 kit brewers using liquid yeast making on average 15 beers each per year with first gen liquid yeast. So sales of 40,000 units at 100% market share at retail $9.00 per unit = total sales AUD270,000


Assumptions: Market share 20%

Gross Sales: AUD54,000

Direct Expenses:
COS: Raw Materials 10%
Other: 10% 

Gross trading profit AUD43,200

Operating Expenses:
Total ex marketing 38%
Marketing 10%

Nett Before Tax Operating Profit AUD17,280

Add back interest costs etc, less borrowing costs, lets say a nice income of $20,000 noice :lol:


Not viable as a stand alone business, would be a long journet to BE point.


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## dicko (10/7/08)

:icon_offtopic: Now, come on Ross, why can't you start to import PETROL AND DIESEL and retail it in Australia at a fair and reasonable price. After all we all know that the price we are paying is a price inflated by the local oil companies to keep the govenments happy and to line the pockets of the oil companies with all our hard earned cash.  

Back on topic!
All people in business should know their bottom line on their products or services.
We, as consumers, are just lucky that with the Wyeast situation we are comparing "apples with apples".
Mmmm! I wonder how long it will be before we are seeing "home brand" liquid yeasts.

In this situation I personally will compare the purchase price from each of the retailers and factor in the freight costs from each and then make a decision. Time for delivery is also an important consideration.
I would bet that Ross has considered this point when pricing his yeasts and knows that his prices are very attractive to the local market as well as gaining sales in yeast when purchased with other items on mail order.
It appears that each state except NT and TAS have a choice of local suppliers and each consumer in these areas will consider his or her options.
As we don't live in communist China competion in business is a fact of life in this country and all businesses just have to deal with it.

My two bobs worth!! (20c)  

Cheers


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## Cortez The Killer (10/7/08)

Screwtop said:


> Not viable as a stand alone business, would be a long journet to BE point.


Might be an option for someone already running a lab who would want to generate another income stream 

Could be started with a couple of popular strains - I don't imagine that it would be a major strain on existing operations

It's interesting on US forums most brewers use a fresh pack of liquid yeast for every batch and harvesting / slanting is unheard of and @ only $5 a pack it's comparable to dry yeast, further the low initial cost negates the savings to be had in yeast farming

I don't think it'd take long to develop a major market share if a comparable RRP could be achieved here 

And by making it locally you eliminate excessive shipping costs which retails here have indicated are a major factor in pricing liquid yeast here

Cheers


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## peas_and_corn (10/7/08)

I thought many of the yeasts that wyeast sell are developed in house and are protected by patents and the such- making 'no brand' liquid yeast a little more tricky (correct me if I'm wrong...)


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## Online Brewing Supplies (10/7/08)

sinkas said:


> GB, the geezer who started this thread, made a error of using Fowl, a bird, instead of foul, when exclaiming that people where "crying fowl"
> 
> It was very funny, but you had the be there.


I getz it now, Very funny but my grandfather use to call them polltree. :lol: 
GB


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## white.grant (10/7/08)

peas_and_corn said:


> I thought many of the yeasts that wyeast sell are developed in house and are protected by patents and the such- making 'no brand' liquid yeast a little more tricky (correct me if I'm wrong...)



They are certainly trademarked - at least Wyeast yeasts are, but I think with yeasts being living organisms they cannot be patented -- in the same way that cows cannot be patented. If it were GM though they could be.


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## Paul H (10/7/08)

I think we need to see this for what it is................... Ross is determined to control the world market by creating a demand for yeast in the southern hemisphere thereby shifting the brewing "axis of evil" from Iran to Brisbane, specifically the PUB shop which is where the said contriband will be stored.  
I forget who said it but "for evil to triumph all it takes is for good men to do nothing". 

Cheers

Paul


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## peas_and_corn (10/7/08)




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## Online Brewing Supplies (10/7/08)

peas_and_corn said:


>


Where's the cap :lol: 
GB


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## ~MikE (10/7/08)

i just bought $50 of stuff off him cos of the awsomness price of his wyeast (and i only got one smack pack ) even if he's selling at cost, it's an excellent customer grab.


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## Lobsta (10/7/08)

peas_and_corn said:


> I thought many of the yeasts that wyeast sell are developed in house and are protected by patents and the such- making 'no brand' liquid yeast a little more tricky (correct me if I'm wrong...)



yeah, as mentioned above, they can own the NAME of the yeast (so if somebody was to make a 'home brand' they couldnt associate it with Wyeast or with the particular number, though i reckon that they would be able to call it for example an 'american ale yeast', as that is a description). 

But as the yeast are a natural product, they cant be patented. if wyeast were able to change the natural product somehow that made them unique, then they would be theirs, but im not sure that anybody would wana be pitching Genetically Modified yeast... I see this all the time at work (Pharmacy). Drug companies cannot patent natural compounds, so they take the natural compound, go into a lab, figure out some way to chemically alter it so that it is unique then they can patent it - thus all the problems with synthetic hormone replacement therapy. the hormones are altered (usually methlated or the such), and the altered ones work ALMOST the same in the body as the natural ones, but not quite, and thus all the side effects as opposed to the natural hormones (which my pharmacy, a compounding pharmacy specialises in), which can not be patented, so anybody with a $400000+ compounding lab could make and sell, as all they are really doing is obtaining and repackaging a natural prodct. 

wow, what a rant...

Lobby


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## Back Yard Brewer (10/7/08)

~MikE said:


> i just bought $50 of stuff off him cos of the awsomness price of his wyeast (and i only got one smack pack ) even if he's selling at cost, it's an excellent customer grab.




Exactly what my first post was partly about. the world is catching on  



Back Yard Brewer said:


> To me its about sustaining your market share. Who's been to a supermarket bought a bargain and then said "shit I might as well get that as well" I know I have.


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## peas_and_corn (10/7/08)

Yeah, but appreciated by at least me. Cheers, that makes sense


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## white.grant (10/7/08)

I believe that type of marketing is referred to as a "loss leader" which is different to selling things at a keen price and still maintaining your margin. 

I think someone (Cortez?) already noted that Wyeast activators sell for $5.75 in the US, and given the strong AUD our prices really should be getting back close to that (plus shipping of course).

cheers

Grant


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## kook (10/7/08)

Screwtop said:


> Hmmm, a quick MA:
> 
> Maybe 1500Ag brewers in OZ, maybe 70% using liquid yeast, maybe 30% not yeast banking and using first gen yeast. Say a round 1000 AG brewers and maybe 1000 kit brewers using liquid yeast making on average 15 beers each per year with first gen liquid yeast. So sales of 40,000 units at 100% market share at retail $9.00 per unit = total sales AUD270,000
> 
> ...



Are you keeping in mind the micros that purchase from Wyeast / Whitelabs? They may repitch to get as much out of their purchase as possible, but they're buying large pitchable quantities. I'm sure a local competitor could gain their business rather quickly if the price was lower.

Still probably not enough demand in Australia yet - but if they were to export to SE Asia, and produce yeast for some of the "mid tier" brewers it could be viable (excluding the startup costs from the equation).


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## T.D. (10/7/08)

Grantw said:


> I believe that type of marketing is referred to as a "loss leader" which is different to selling things at a keen price and still maintaining your margin.
> 
> I think someone (Cortez?) already noted that Wyeast activators sell for $5.75 in the US, and given the strong AUD our prices really should be getting back close to that (plus shipping of course).
> 
> ...



Its partly loss leader and partly market penetration pricing. Set prices low initially for a new product, gain a bunch of market share and then slowly increase prices. Its a very common marketing technique.


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## Julez (10/7/08)

Grantw said:


> I believe that type of marketing is referred to as a "loss leader" which is different to selling things at a keen price and still maintaining your margin.
> 
> I think someone (Cortez?) already noted that Wyeast activators sell for $5.75 in the US, and given the strong AUD our prices really should be getting back close to that (plus shipping of course).
> 
> ...



They do, see http://www.northernbrewer.com/wyeast.html 

I work for a an importer/distributor in the IT industry, yet I can buy some items from the US on a single-buy, retail basis, cheaper than my own company can buy the same items at the best possible wholesale prices in bulk and direct from the overseas manufacturer! And that even takes into account the US retail price + customs duty + GST + shipping. A number of people do circumvent Australian distribution channels and buy goods in this way - it's called "parrallel importing". 

One thing that's important to note, is that that the US and Australia are two totally different markets. Unfortunately, a direct price comparison is not possible. Each economy has its own tax system and economies of scale due to differences in domestic consumption. Equally, some goods are cheaper in AUS, when compared to the US. 

So don't assume that US prices are remotely indicative of what we should be paying here!


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## Julez (10/7/08)

T.D. said:


> Its partly loss leader and partly market penetration pricing. Set prices low initially for a new product, gain a bunch of market share and then slowly increase prices. Its a very common marketing technique.



Sometimes people also just sell particular lines as a value-add. E.g. not set out to necessarily make a profit on particular lines, or even to gain further market share, but to add convenience and become a one-stop shop. For me, liquid yeast was the one thing I had to go elsewhere for, now I can buy everything from the one place and pay one lot of freight. Bewdy B) 

Irrespective, still not sure why we are talking about business principles here. We all have the right to choose, and I choose snappy prices and convenience


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## SJW (10/7/08)

Ross is a big boy and he can and will sell his products, be it yeast, grain or anything else at any price he wants to. We as the customers have to final choice in who we buy from. Its up to us as the customer to decide where the future of retails homebrew supplies lies. If everyone brushed their local HB Shop and bought from an on-line retailer I would guess that out local HBS would disappear. Or on the other hand maybe our local HBS's need to get more competitive with the on-liners. Stuffed if I know (que a retailer).
I think that we on this forum need to take a reality check and realise that in the world of brewing the couple hundred AG brewers (if that) on this site are about the equivalent to a pimple on the ass of a gnat when it comes to influencing world supply and demand. I think even Ross would agree that we should support our local HBS's (at least he has said that to me) and I think the Home Brew world would be worse off without them. Where else would I go to kill an hour or so during work time?
So I dont know what the answer is, just keep it in perspective and make hay while the sun shines.

Steve


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## smudge (10/7/08)

> One thing that's important to note, is that that the US and Australia are two totally different markets. Unfortunately, a direct price comparison is not possible.



Julez,

Different markets yes. "direct price comparison is not possible" - no. The price into my letterbox is the ultimate price comparison.

The _reasons_ for the difference in price may be complex but the price is the price.

Though, as I've said before, best price is not necessarily the best deal.

And Lobsta,

If ever there was a more protected business in Australia than pharmacy, I haven't seen it. I'm still trying to work out whether
Safeway's ethical lines or groceries will be their loss leader.  

Cheers,
smudge


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## Ducatiboy stu (10/7/08)

I do vaguely remember a converstaion with Ross ages ago when he was just starting his hop selling business. 

He commented on the fact that "other" home brew shops where trying to shut him out of the market, by using various legal ( bot not ethical ) means

Obviously it worked.......Ross has gone from strength to strength by providing a service that suits us....not himself..

Its a free market....


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## braufrau (10/7/08)

Isn't the way to undermine the Ross/Wyeast axis of yeasty-beasties to go open source??

Everyone, in the public interest, should be making slants and sending them thither and yon.

We could have a yeast slant registry and people could pick up in their own city or send the owner
some chilling thingy and a bag and postage for the yeast to be sent to them.


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## Ducatiboy stu (10/7/08)

braufrau said:


> Isn't the way to undermine the Ross/Wyeast axis of yeasty-beasties to go open source??
> 
> Everyone, in the public interest, should be making slants and sending them thither and yon.
> 
> ...




Please dont tell Mr Gates that I use Linux....I might upset the whole Axis of everything...

And dont mention yeast farms....they will all go broke...


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## sinkas (10/7/08)

What is ross going to do with all the out of date stuff, hopefully sell it at a great price


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## Ross (10/7/08)

braufrau said:


> Isn't the way to undermine the Ross/Wyeast axis of yeasty-beasties to go open source??



Makes you glad you went to the trouble to supply them & at a good price hey  



Cheers Ross.....


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## Barramundi (10/7/08)

some people are impossible to please ross .. i would have though most would just think , shit good price ill buy , not hey why is this shifty rat selling these things so cheaply he must be getting them for nothing and still making a profit , i thought that was the point of running a business to make a profit so you yourself can live off it , and if possible in the process keep your customers happy ,

i for one am happy with your service and pricing and will continue to shop at craftbrewer 

cheers Ned Dryden


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## Black Dog Brewery (10/7/08)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> I do vaguely remember a converstaion with Ross ages ago when he was just starting his hop selling business.
> 
> He commented on the fact that "other" home brew shops where trying to shut him out of the market, by using various legal ( bot not ethical ) means
> 
> ...



I agree. 

Ross offers exceptional service and price and thats why a lot of people buy from him. Lets not forget that all retailers have the ability to compete with him and shouldnt whine if they dont like him succeeding. Simple solution, do it better / cheaper than Ross and you will get business dont and he keeps growing. Why ask him to stop growing his business while others catch up. No other industry does, why start here. Apart from that rant, the moneys better in my pocket than his so thanks Ross.  




braufrau said:


> Isn't the way to undermine the Ross/Wyeast axis of yeasty-beasties to go open source??
> 
> Everyone, in the public interest, should be making slants and sending them thither and yon.
> 
> ...



As a test case Im happy for everyone to send them to me and inturn I will let you know they arrived  

Cheers BDB


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## yardy (10/7/08)

Barramundi said:


> some people are impossible to please ross .. i would have though most would just think , shit good price ill buy , not hey why is this shifty rat selling these things so cheaply he must be getting them for nothing and still making a profit , i thought that was the point of running a business to make a profit so you yourself can live off it , and if possible in the process keep your customers happy ,
> 
> i for one am happy with your service and pricing and will continue to shop at craftbrewer
> 
> cheers Ned Dryden



a common sense post at last, I'm with you Ned.

Cheers
Yard


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## bigfridge (10/7/08)

Cortez The Killer said:


> Surely there is an opportunity for some enterprising individuals to start packaging and selling their own liquid yeasts in Australia
> 
> I'd imagine it'd take a little bit in set up costs but it wouldn't be too hard for people with some lab experience
> 
> ...



Cortez,

Short answer, 2 words - Peet Yeast

Ask anyone who has been brewing a few years and they can tell you all about it.

Problem with yeast is that it is not just a matter of having a warehouse full of the suff and you refill little bottles like olive oil or detergent. It is a product that is very hard to propagate properly and keep sterile.

Dave


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## jimmybee (10/7/08)

i like beer


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## braufrau (10/7/08)

Ross said:


> Makes you glad you went to the trouble to supply them & at a good price hey
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers Ross.....



Sorry Ross ... I was just continuing the sarcastic vein of someone elses comment ... 
I think the whole questioning of your motives is silly ... but I still think a yeast exchange is a good idea too!

Its like .. you can buy redhat in a box and that's good (or wyeast from ross and that's good) or download ubuntu, and that's good too (or get some free yeast for a yeast rancher and that's good too).
Each have their pros and cons.


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## benno1973 (10/7/08)

Black Dog Brewery said:


> Ross offers exceptional service and price and thats why a lot of people buy from him. Lets not forget that all retailers have the ability to compete with him and shouldnt whine if they dont like him succeeding. Simple solution, do it better / cheaper than Ross and you will get business dont and he keeps growing. Why ask him to stop growing his business while others catch up. No other industry does, why start here.



Nah, you've totally misunderstood the process. Ross should run his business into the ground to satisfy us consumers. He should supply everything at below cost, and we should question his motives while we stock up on these goodies. When his business is declared bankrupt, we should moan about the state of the home brew industry in Australia and question why no-one runs a good homebrew store these days. It'd be un-Australian if we didn't have something to complain about! <_< 

So basic economics be damned! I want my yeast for free, but I'll look at the supplier suspiciously and wonder if he bought a new ivory back scratcher from the huge profit he just made. And the supply-demand model should have no relevance in the homebrew industry. Everything should be done for philanthropy - let's all take a leaf out of Bill Gates' book!


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## Batz (10/7/08)

Cortez The Killer said:


> Might be an option for someone already running a lab who would want to generate another income stream
> 
> Could be started with a couple of popular strains - I don't imagine that it would be a major strain on existing operations
> 
> ...




Darren? At least they would be free of infection :lol: 

Batz


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## SJW (10/7/08)

Just put the price up to $15.95 Ross and make everyone happy


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## warrenlw63 (10/7/08)

bigfridge said:


> Short answer, 2 words - Peet Yeast



 Remember it well bigfridge.

My guess its demise was due to it being the same price as a Wyeast smack pack at the time. 

Think if you're going to manufacture locally you've got to at least lower the price accordingly. That being said it was good yeast.

Wouldn't surprise me if there's a couple of tightarse homebrewers down here with generations of the stuff still kicking on. :lol: 

Warren -


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## wyatt_girth (10/7/08)

Barramundi said:


> some people are impossible to please ross .. i would have though most would just think , shit good price ill buy , not hey why is this shifty rat selling these things so cheaply he must be getting them for nothing and still making a profit , i thought that was the point of running a business to make a profit so you yourself can live off it , and if possible in the process keep your customers happy ,
> 
> i for one am happy with your service and pricing and will continue to shop at craftbrewer
> 
> cheers Ned Dryden






Black Dog Brewery said:


> I agree.
> 
> Ross offers exceptional service and price and that's why a lot of people buy from him. Let's not forget that all retailers have the ability to compete with him and shouldn't whine if they don't like him succeeding. Simple solution, do it better / cheaper than Ross and you will get business don't and he keeps growing. Why ask him to stop growing his business while others catch up. No other industry does, why start here. Apart from that rant, the moneys better in my pocket than his so thanks Ross.
> 
> ...



WOOOOHOOOOOOOOO!!! Spot on lads. Pretty simple I thought. Good service + good price = my money.


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## 0M39A (10/7/08)

wyatt_girth said:


> WOOOOHOOOOOOOOO!!! Spot on lads. Pretty simple I thought. Good service + good price = my money.



seconded. buy the majority of my gear from ross. only thing i dont is malt pretty much, due to nothing more than shipping. living in tassie makes it hard to get anything decent.

never used a liquid yeast, as i like to order all my stuff from the one place, but now i can get it from ross as well, then i will give a few a go.

keep up the bloody good ross, and every other homebrew store owner out there that does their bit to support the homebrewing community, and not just sell customers a coopers can and a kilo of dextrose and tell them "she'll be right"


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## winkle (10/7/08)

Ross said:


> Makes you glad you went to the trouble to supply them & at a good price hey
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers Ross.....



Don't worry about the whinging, Ross.
At a good price like that I'll buy a few specialities  at $15 I probably wouldn't.


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## PostModern (10/7/08)

braufrau said:


> I think the whole questioning of your motives is silly ...



I think the day we stop questioning the motives of unusual market behaviour is the day we grow wool and say Bahhhh.


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## Batz (10/7/08)

Supermarkets have specials,often sold below cost, because if you buy the specials your sure to buy a few other items as well.
A common marketing strategy.

Either way a sensible shopper is the winner.

Batz


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## roger mellie (10/7/08)

Batz said:


> Supermarkets have specials,often sold below cost, because if you buy the specials your sure to buy a few other items as well.
> A common marketing strategy.
> 
> Either way a sensible shopper is the winner.
> ...



The difference being Batz is that Supermarkets never fund the specials - the manufacturers always do.

RM


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## pokolbinguy (10/7/08)

roger mellie said:


> The difference being Batz is that Supermarkets never fund the specials - the manufacturers always do.



Thats not completley true. Company's (especially in a bottle shop environment) will use "lost litres" (products sold under cost) to upsell other products. This can be done for a number of reasons such as moving old stock, re-instating old "favourites" and moving stock that "won't sell". This happens all the time. Its easily seen in Mr Murphy's all the time....its the reason VB, New, old and XXXX is always overpriced and particulary good wines are sold at crazily low prices....it stimulates the customer (in general) to buy a "bargin" while picking up the "essentials".


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## peas_and_corn (11/7/08)

roger mellie said:


> The difference being Batz is that Supermarkets never fund the specials - the manufacturers always do.
> 
> RM



That's a highly complex issue and one that depends highly on how you do your accounting. Coke is the best example, because I know the most about the numbers involved.

One two litre bottle of coke yields a profit of a few cents for the store- yes, despite the drink only costing a few cents to make, the store gets charges a fortune for the product by Coke. Whenever it is on special, a loss is made- at times a HUGE loss (I remember once coke cubes being on special and the store was losing something in the order of $6 a unit). As it is mentioned, there is a logic behind this- it gets people in the door to buy other things. The soft drink section of a store rarely makes a profit for this reason.

At the same time, the majority of profit is made for the supermarkets at the state offices, rather than at the stores themselves. There was a year when the state office made a greater profit than all the stores in SA combined. Coke pays the state office a large sum of money (I haven't had access to these numbers, but apparently it's in the ballpark of $100,000). This is to ensure that Coke gets shelf space (notice that Coke has more shelf space than any other drink?), gets the 'premium' end of aisle spaces when it's on special (the stores get told what goes on what ends), and is allowed to send reps into the stores to look out for Coke's interests (make sure they always have a pallet of 2L coke, maintain the planogram, etc)

On a 'net' level, I'm pretty sure that the company ends up ahead. However the store itself is still officially losing money, and of course if the manager doesn't turn a profit (3% is normally a nice net profit over a store) then they get it pretty bad. I remember once the manager of my old store was excited because the store was making a profit for the first time in about 3 years.

Um... I'm done now.


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## matti (11/7/08)

All big mobs pay for shelf space at Wollies and Coles.
If the manufacturers and producers don't deliver they pay penalties.
The aim for the manufacturers and producers is not to produce solely to Wollies and Coles but make product that wollies and Coles want to have on the shelf and plenty of it.
Then you can start making Deals that is worth making. 

I.e. if Coca Cola Amatil cannot fill their space(s), they will have to pay the margin(s) of the profits of another possible brand sale.
The major retail chains also has a window for deliveries I.e. 10 min and hold the manufactures at ransom for delivering on time and quantities.
This makes it difficult for any new or small business to grow and they tend to sell out to the bigger mobs as soon as they put a decent product out.

Support your local businesses by buying at least 20% of yopu groceries else where.
Fruit shops, butcher, bakeries, and local asian markets.
You'll find the produce taste better and fill you up more
At least that is my opinion...

As for some AHB retailer wanting to sell stuff cheap.
They is no real danger of CraftBrewer monopoly yet  
matti


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## Ducatiboy stu (11/7/08)

The Big "c" & "w" are blatently ripping us off with market power...

Why does Milk in the big 2 cost more than milk in other stores...its MILK ffs..

And Bread....why do we get charged $3 a loaf when I can buy bread for $ 1.10...

And WTF is this bullshit being charged $3 for a bottle of water...come on guys get a grip..


I have 2x 20Kltr tanks full of rain water.....makes it worth about... $120,000.....










But then again...how many are silly enough to pay $250 for Vista...when Linux is free... B)


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## PostModern (11/7/08)

Don't start talking about the price of packaged water. Damn, a commodity that falls from the sky being sold for $ per litre?!?


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## pokolbinguy (11/7/08)

Yep and you can get if from a tap for free....well dependant on where you are...geeze some people are crazy when it comes to water.


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## Back Yard Brewer (12/7/08)

MMMMM and what was my original post that started this thread. Oh thats right the price of eggs or was it tyres. Did not think this thread would keep rolling and rolling  


BYB


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## winkle (12/7/08)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> The Big "c" & "w" are blatently ripping us off with market power...
> 
> Why does Milk in the big 2 cost more than milk in other stores...its MILK ffs..
> 
> ...


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## Jagungal (12/7/08)

Back Yard Brewer said:


> I have been following the RETAIL Craftbrewer Goes Liquid  with much amusement. It is amusing because of some of the negative posts. I mean you just can't please everyone.



To me the negative posts are from another retailer and should be just ignored as a ruffled rooster doing it few strangled crows.

Last year, while living in a remote area devoid of brew shops I did a lot of my shopping online. Ross was absolutely brilliant for being an *honest* online shop with great service, honesty and range. Previously I had purchased hops without knowing the alpha as well as the date of the hops, one particular retailer would often send a newer and older hop packet, I am guessing to try and clear older stock. Small amounts grain from other retailers were also over priced meaning that doing small all grain batches were hard to justify cost wise. Ross's range and prices made it feasible to put all grain recipes together at a price that made it cheaper or the same prices as doing kits. When I said something to the other retails about how the costs of grain by the kilo or gram were over priced all I got was a grunt of whateva - they just don't understand brewers or the market.

At the time I worked out prices for fresh yeast and I could get it direct from the US for the less than the price that I would in Australia as long as I purchased a bulk lot to keep me going for winter. The advantage was it was from a higher turnover area (fresher yeast) and I had an extensive range of yeasts to choose from. If I could get it cheaper at that time, I am guessing Ross can as well while making a reasonable profit.

To me that other brewing shop is not giving manufacturing dates for their yeast. Ross is giving dates. To me this is Craftbrewer just continuing to do what they have always done, giving honesty, good prices, extensive range and great service and advice.

I know who I am going to support no matter what crowing the other fowls do.


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## warra48 (12/7/08)

I have difficulty understanding a lot of this thread.
An on-line retailer comes up with a desirable product at a very good price.
I see no problem with that at all.
Enjoy it while it lasts.

However, almost immediately, complaints, suspicions, and thoughts of ulterior motives start up. 
Looks to me like a lot of hoohah looking for non-existent problems to solve. 

More power to Ross. 
We still live in a relatively free society, and Ross is free to retail whatever he likes at whatever price he likes, until either:
1. He goes broke.
2. The ACCC or other legislative powers intervene (and I don't think this will ever happen).


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## brettprevans (12/7/08)

FFS fellas. conspiracy theory much! really FFS

we constantly hunt round for cheaper prices, organise bulk buys etc etc all to save a buck, then a retailer offer some cheaper product than previous available and theres a mix suspicion, negative comment, support etc etc, Get a grip. do you guys make comment every time theres a change in grocery prices, or fast food or anything else (like beer h34r: - sorry i couldnt help it). leave the industry fighting to those in the industry, and just enjoy the service, products etc offered by all the really good HBS retailers (whether it be your LHBS, Craftbrewer, Beerbelly, G&G, Mashmaster, Gryphon or whoever).


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