# Heady Topper!



## fattox (28/7/14)

Hey guys and girls.

I just have to share this!! It's absolutely phenomenal.

I had been looking at doing a Heady Topper clone for a while, seeing as how hard it is to even get it near the brewery in the US. So after a bit of research, and finding out you can buy direct from Yakima Valley for the more obscure strains, a Heady Topper clone was brewed! My first attempt was slightly different (see brackets in recipe) but it was an absolutely stunning beer. So without further ado, one of the most hop flavoured beers I have ever tried!

Batch Size 23L
6.4kg TF Pearl (I used Maris Otter as Pearl was unavailable at the time)
170g Caramalt (I used Caraamber as my local shop had just run out of Caramalt!)
425g Turbinado/Demerara Sugar (I forgot to get this, and used a mix of 300g raw sugar and 150g dark brown sugar) boiled for last 10 mins

Hop times
21.2g Columbus @ 60
28.8g Simcoe @ 30
Boil finings if used, yeast nutrient whenever (mine is a 10 min boil req as is my brewbrite)
28.8g each Apollo, Cascade, Centennial, Simcoe, Columbus for a 30 minute hop stand (I no-chill so I use a hop bag for this stage)

Mash @ 67ish for an hour, preboil OG about 1.061. Boil for an hour, post boil target approx. 1.071 (I hit slightly higher at 1.072).
Ferment out using US05 or an American Ale Yeast, or if you want the authentic taste, go with Conan Yeast. Barley Man sells is under the Yeast Bay brand "Vermont IPA". If using the US05 keep at normal temps, with Conan start it out around 16ish degrees which is apparently where it will start with super fruity flavours coming through, then around 1.018 ramp up to 18 to finish around 1.010-1.012. 1.010 is ideal.

Once it has hit final gravity, dry hop with 28.8g each of Chinook, Apollo and Simcoe for a week. Rack that bad boy off the trub (I would definitely keep the Conan Yeast from the trub!!), into a secondary and re-dry hop with 28.8g each of Centennial and Simcoe. Keg, get to approx. 9psi/90kpa ish and enjoy.

I have done it in the bracket way previously and needless to say about 17 litres vanished between 3 of us in a night. It is an addictively good beer.


----------



## SixStar (28/3/17)

Nice man! I'm fixin to do one myself!


----------



## Mardoo (28/3/17)

Mofox and I did a clone recipe of this together. Easily one of the beast - and best - beers I've ever brewed. Fantastic!


----------



## pcqypcqy (29/3/17)

But what grub hasn't mentioned is you need to ensure you put a bazooka screen on your dip tube.

Keen for you to rebrew this, maybe a few jars of it will pay me back for the job and the casters


----------



## Mardoo (29/3/17)

There is a huge thread on HBT about this clone brew, with many recipes, methodologies, different fermentation schedules, etc. I tried one that included a higher than usual starting temp, with a significant underpitch as was recommended. I'll get the recipe Mofox1 and I used into a presentable format. Suffice to say, the beer went so fast I believe interdimensional space goats were popping into existence in the keg and drinking their fill. At least, that's how it seemed after four pints.


----------



## pcqypcqy (29/3/17)

Just confirming this is the hop schedule for this bad boy?


----------



## OneEye (29/3/17)

How do you find such a hoppy beer goes with the no chill method?


----------



## Mardoo (29/3/17)

We did ours no chill. Came out great! I even left my cube for about five months before fermenting, and the hop presence was the closest I've ever gotten to the commercial DIPA's. I ended up dumping all the hop material in with the wort. I figured since I was going to be racking it off before it was finished, as recommended in the version we chose to follow, it wouldn't matter so much. We chilled to 65C IIRC before we did the hop stand, then added more in the cube.

Getting the recipe and process we used into a useful format has been on the to-do list for ages, so I'll get that on here in the next few days. I have a few days off coming up so can definitely get it finished.


----------



## SixStar (29/3/17)

Yeah Mardoo that would be good to see. I've almost gone through all that HBT thread, almost.
Seems to be the water profile and PH that is the most interesting bit for me.
Also after all that reading no one can seem to really hit it spot on but can get close. The conan giga yeast will be here soon from beerco. Exciting


----------



## fattox (31/3/17)

pcqypcqy said:


> But what grub hasn't mentioned is you need to ensure you put a bazooka screen on your dip tube.
> 
> Keen for you to rebrew this, maybe a few jars of it will pay me back for the job and the casters


Conveniently enough I have definitely got some Vermont ale on the way, I will give it a run through on a batch of IPA sometime soon and split off some yeast cake for ya [emoji16] on top of the bottles of barrel quad!


----------



## fattox (31/3/17)

pcqypcqy said:


> Just confirming this is the hop schedule for this bad boy?


Looks the goods

Wrt fermentation I start mine around 18 and ramp to 23-24 over the first week. I've had it finish in 3 days on a healthy pitch, and then it got dry hopped and cold crashed. 

It's a shame my new misso likes IPA's, I may have to warrant a brew day of IPA


----------



## Mardoo (31/3/17)

A brew day of Warrant with IPA
https://youtu.be/OjyZKfdwlng


----------



## technobabble66 (1/4/17)

Mardoo said:


> We did ours no chill. Came out great! I even left my cube for about five months before fermenting, and the *hop presence was the closest I've ever gotten* to the commercial DIPA's.* I ended up dumping all the hop material in with the wort*. ....


Hey Mr Smooth, what do you think about this link? (i.e.: dumping hops material into the FV and getting best hops presence (which i'm assuming is partly that dank resiny element. Mmmmmm, dank))
Are you suspecting that there's significant benefits derived from dumping the hops into the FV and letting the yeasties go to work on them? i.e.: there's some biotransformagorificational hyperawesomeness happening that magically improves the hops elements on top of the sheer bulk of hops used in the recipe?
I generally try to strain out the hops debris when draining the cube into the FV. But i'm about to pitch a cube of Red NEIPA (probably with MJ New World Strong) and wondering if it's better to just dump the whole lot in this time.
The last couple of batches where i've used homegrown flowers in the cube, i've found the extraction to be good but there's still a fair bit of hoppiness left in the discarded flowers. It has just made me wonder if there's more potential left in them to be accessed somehow. Maybe by a little Biotransformational Black Magic...?
Did you detect any hoppy astringency coming through from dumping the hops into the FV?



Sorry for the slightly OT tangent.
But let's face it, everything else is secondary to obtaining the holy grail of maximising hoppiness B) 

PS: hope you're doing well, dude. :icon_cheers:


----------



## Mardoo (2/4/17)

There are definitely transformations of hop flavour/oils that happen from yeast activity, which is part of the benefit of dry hopping while the yeast is still a bit active. There's been a lot of proper research done in this area. However, it's all based on professional technique, so cubing isn't part of the research. I can't say really. I know that doing the dry hop under pressure had a lot to do with the hop presence in this case, and the beer not seeing (much, if any) oxygen from the time it was racked off the yeast and into the dry hopping vessel. Next one won't see oxygen from the time it hits the FV to the finished product.

I have two cubes of a similarly hoppy beer to ferment out, so maybe I'll do a little experiment and do one on the hops, one not, and see whether there's any difference. I'm sure there are reasons to NOT include the hops, but then there's so much green, oily goodness left in cube hopping residue, particularly at the level of what we put into the Heady cubes.

Yes, I do get hop astringency coming through in the fermenter in very hoppy beers, but that only takes about a week to fade. Have you ever gotten the numb tongue sensation from a fermenter sample?  I had one beer I really wanted it to stay around in, but it just doesn't last long, and it's usually not that pleasant. I also get the hop astringency from keg hopping for too long or too hard, FWIW.


----------



## technobabble66 (2/4/17)

Mardoo said:


> ...I have two cubes of a similarly hoppy beer to ferment out, so maybe I'll do a little experiment and do one on the hops, one not, and see whether there's any difference. I'm sure there are reasons to NOT include the hops, but then there's so much green, oily goodness left in cube hopping residue, particularly at the level of what we put into the Heady cubes...


Damn straight. Keen to see if/what the good/bad difference is between the 2. I'd be keen to see if the difference lies in the O2 exposure or lack thereof, or if it's the biotransformation.

Yes, had the numb tongue from that IPA/DIPA i brought to Wayne's place in Shepp last year. Keg lasted 1-2hours :beerbang: One of my best beers, if i do say so myself.


----------



## SixStar (14/4/17)

My HT clone should be bubbling away soon! Holy hell that was a lot of hops that when into it!
I had a great brew day. With the grainfather I hit 91% brewhouse efficiency and my OG is 1.078. Right on target! Exciting!



Mash out



New invention, handing the hose and a quick loop made with an old keg lid o-ring






Look at all those hops! Even the PBW had trouble cutting through all the resin left over.


----------



## SixStar (8/5/17)

Unequivocally the best beer I've ever made and one of the best I've tasted.


----------



## pirateagenda (15/5/17)

going to give this a go this week. 
Don't have all the hops so will be making up the same quantity using simcoe, centennial and cascade. 
555g for 40L batch :super:


----------



## pcqypcqy (15/5/17)

pirateagenda said:


> going to give this a go this week.
> Don't have all the hops so will be making up the same quantity using simcoe, centennial and cascade.
> 555g for 40L batch :super:


555g? is that all?


----------



## SixStar (15/5/17)

Will post my recipe but followed the US one.


----------



## SixStar (17/5/17)

I had to make some changes bc I could not get some of the hops. Here's the one I made:

I used the Conan Giga yeast (beerco) and added 2 x tsp Calcium Sulphate (Gypsum), 2 x tsp Calcium Chloride bc my water needed it.

Current Best Clone (modified to suit Aus)
Batch Size: 19L
Boil Size: 24.5L

5.1 kg Pearl Malt - UK (84.9%)- SRM 2.4
340 grams Caramalt (Thomas Fawcett) (5.7%) - SRM 17
340 grams Wheat, Torrified (Thomas Fawcett)
227 grams Table Sugar - Sucrose - US - Added at flameout.

Mash at 65.5 degrees for 60 minutes.
Boil Time: 90 min

170.10 grams – Simcoe
42.54 grams – Apollo (Warrior)
85.05 grams – Columbus (Crosby Experimental #6 Hop Pellets 80g)
42.53 grams – Centennial
56.70 grams – Amarillo (Used Citra in dry hop)

7.50 ml ** * Hopshot (Isohop bottle from GnG)- Boil 90.0 min- 117.8 IBUs

28.35 grams *** Simcoe[13.00 %] Boil 5.0 min-8.3 IBUs
14.18 grams *** Apollo (Warrior)- Boil 5.0 min -4.0 IBUs

56.70 grams *** Simcoe [13.00 %] Boil 0.0 min -0.0 IBUs
28.35 grams *** Columbus [14.00 %] Boil 0.0 min -0.0 IBUs

28.35 grams *** Simcoe [13.00 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs
28.35 grams *** Columbus (Crosby) [14.00 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs
28.35 grams *** Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min-0.0 IBUs
14.18 grams *** Centennial [10.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min- 0.0 IBUs
14.18 grams *** Apollo (Warrior) [12.50 %] Aroma Steep 30.0 min- 0.0 IBUs

56.70 grams *** Simcoe [13.00 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days -0.0 IBUs
28.35 grams *** Columbus (Crosby or tomahawk) [14.00 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs
28.35 grams *** Amarillo Gold (Citra) [8.50 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs
28.35 grams *** Centennial [10.50 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs
14.18 grams *** Apollo (Warrior) [17.00 %] Dry Hop 8.0 Days-0.0 IBUs

Split dry hop in half and add half on day 14 and day 21. Carb on day 25.

[SIZE=10pt]*Beer Profile*
Est Original Gravity: 1.073 SG** *Measured Original Gravity: 1.073 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG** *Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.8 %** *Actual Alcohol by Vol: 8.5 %
Bitterness: 130.7 IBUs** *Calories: 249.4 kcal/12oz
Est Color: 6.4 SRM[/SIZE]


----------



## pirateagenda (25/5/17)

missed my opportunity to brew this last week so hopefully tomorrow is the day. 

doing 65L of it, fermenting 40L as is at 1.073, and watering down the other 25L into a 40L approx 40IBU, 1.045 OG session batch. Unsure how I will treat the dry hops in the session batch, thinking it may not need any.


----------



## SixStar (25/5/17)

The keg in brewed is gone. Craziness had friends randomly stopping by to drink it. The second is already fermenting away at 25l this time.
With the session batch you are cooking, I'd hit it with 80 grams of Idaho 7. You won't be disappointed. It's amazing.


----------



## bullsneck (25/5/17)

Agreed. Made one for an intra-club DIPA competition and it is damn tasty.

Go the 'Conan' yeast. You wont be disappointed.


----------



## SixStar (25/5/17)

I'm actually using 1318 this time around. Kimmich recommends it and apparently you can't taste the difference: http://brulosophy.com/2017/02/09/brudragon-collaboration-2-wyeast-1318-london-ale-iii-vs-gigayeast-gy054-vermont-ale-conan-in-neipa-exbeeriment-results/

We'll see...


----------



## pcqypcqy (26/5/17)

pirateagenda said:


> missed my opportunity to brew this last week so hopefully tomorrow is the day.
> 
> doing 65L of it, fermenting 40L as is at 1.073, and watering down the other 25L into a 40L approx 40IBU, 1.045 OG session batch. Unsure how I will treat the dry hops in the session batch, thinking it may not need any.


How does the hop bill come in for a batch this size?


----------



## pirateagenda (26/5/17)

pcqypcqy said:


> How does the hop bill come in for a batch this size?


 712g for the boil and stand additons for the full 65L plus dry hop for the 40L. 

Haven't made any allowance for dry hop for the session batch, but will probably add 70g of citra that I have leftover, so..... just under 800g all up.


----------



## pirateagenda (31/5/17)

On its 3rd day of ferment and the fermenting fridge smells so good from the gas seeping out of the spunding valve... and haven't even put the first lot of dry hops in yet. 

The diluted batch I dry hopped on the 2nd day, as I want it ready a little faster and don't mind if it looses a little aroma.


----------



## OneEye (2/6/17)

Pirate, from my understanding one of the key components of brewing a NEIPA is to dry hop real early. Contrary to what we've always been told!


----------



## SixStar (2/6/17)

Hey OneEye, can you point me on the direction of this thinking? My research says to dry hop at 14 days then 21 days. Then carb on day 25. That's for Heady Topper anyways. Cheers


----------



## OneEye (2/6/17)

Just have a google of 'hop biotransformation' or something of that nature and you'll get a few things to read through. Although i don't think it's specific to Heady Topper. Just seems to be a part of the NEIPA conversation


----------



## SixStar (4/6/17)

Had a sample of the second batch when checking FG. Really nice and can't tell the difference btw the yeasts. Pretty much identical, juicy - nice a touch of sweetness, great bitter profile, can't wait to taste after the dry hopping. I think she might be done at 1.012.
The Wyeast is dropping out much better than the Conan though which is interesting.


----------



## OneEye (5/6/17)

I brewed this yesterday and had a nightmare of a time. Silly mistakes that ultimately ended in a blocked plate chiller. Ended up running off into the fermenter at about 70C and then just waited overnight to pitch the yeast. Last bloody time I use that chiller, counter flow chiller has jumped to the top of my shopping list! Fingers crossed it still comes out ok. It's not a cheap beer to make. Apart from the chiller woes I managed to hit all my numbers so time will tell if the yeast can do the rest of the work for me.


----------



## pirateagenda (8/6/17)

Mine has fermented out a tad further than expected finishing up at 8.6% !! 2nd dry hop has been added on tuesday, already 3/4 carbed from pressure ferment. kegging next week!


----------



## Coodgee (8/6/17)

I find it hard to believe you would distinguish any subtle "biotransformation" going on with 500 grams of hops. I think there possibly a lot of bullshit mixed in with a pretty good DIPA recipe.


----------



## pirateagenda (18/6/17)

Tapped this on friday night! woooaaahhh.... delicious beer but definitely dangerously drinkable at 8.6%. Was feeling rather slow yesterday. 
The session batch made from watering down the strong one pre ferment came out really good also, and a 50-50 mix of the 2 in a schooner to create a 6.5ish% IPA was really tasty also.


----------



## SixStar (2/9/17)

Look what I got in the fridge boys!!!


----------



## Beersuit (2/9/17)

I to have a bottle of sweet baby rays buffalo sauce. Its nothing on franks and tastes a trad artificial.


----------



## SixStar (2/9/17)

Ha ha!!! Good one


----------



## Charst (2/9/17)

SixStar said:


> Hey OneEye, can you point me on the direction of this thinking? My research says to dry hop at 14 days then 21 days. Then carb on day 25. That's for Heady Topper anyways. Cheers







Somewhere in this hour of Story time / Q&A he says he never dry hops for longer than 4-5 days or you get the grassy notes.


----------

