# Great Beer Keg



## frankyhx (27/10/11)

Gday, this is Frank. 
We are a professional manufacturer and exporter of stainless steel beer kegs & casks in China. 

Our company 
-- Makes DIN standard, Europe standard, US standard beer kegs of superior quality;
-- Works with Micro Matic, Marston, Greene King, Wells & Young's, among others; 
-- Maintains a daily production volume of 2000 kegs;
-- Has complete testing procedures;

Samples are available upon your request. 
If you are interested in our kegs, pls feel free to contact me for details.

email:[email protected]


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## DU99 (27/10/11)

This looks good wonder what type of coupling they use


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## kjparker (27/10/11)

I'm betting there is a huge minimum order qty, or the freight is massive!


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## Robbo2234 (27/10/11)

I have had some stuff made in China,
If they know what's good for them they will give good pricing.

Shipping can be a pain unless you buy bulk and consolidate in a container.


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## frankyhx (27/10/11)

clueless said:


> I'm betting there is a huge minimum order qty, or the freight is massive!


Minimum order is 100 kegs. Averagely speaking, freight is no more than 4 us dollars for each.


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## dkaos (27/10/11)

I'm sure you'd have no shortage of buyers here. It's tough though, you will get some dodgy kegs in there I guarantee it. I've had a container shipped over before and not all the stock will be perfect.


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## frankyhx (27/10/11)

Robbo2234 said:


> I have had some stuff made in China,
> If they know what's good for them they will give good pricing.
> 
> Shipping can be a pain unless you buy bulk and consolidate in a container.


Well, not really, mate.
Some of the microbrewers in Australia ordered the minimum quantity, and the delivered kegs are all in good conditions.


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## frankyhx (27/10/11)

DU99 said:


> This looks good wonder what type of coupling they use


For spears, it is up to you. Type A, type D, Type G and Type S, you name it.


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## frankyhx (27/10/11)

Clints Gadgets said:


> I'm sure you'd have no shortage of buyers here. It's tough though, you will get some dodgy kegs in there I guarantee it. I've had a container shipped over before and not all the stock will be perfect.


Well, mate, you can not take a part for the whole. I wonder which factory you purchased your kegs from.


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## beerdrinkingbob (27/10/11)

so how much for a 100 Frank, you wont find many Micro's on AHB but wouldn't be the first bulk buy.


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## frankyhx (27/10/11)

beerdrinkingbob said:


> so how much for a 100 Frank, you wont find many Micro's on AHB but wouldn't be the first bulk buy.



100, mate?
Which size? 20L, 30L or 50L? Euro standard?


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## bradsbrew (27/10/11)

Frank23 said:


> 100, mate?
> Which size? 20L, 30L or 50L? Euro standard?


Could you give us a price on 100 of each size delivered to Oz. eg.

100 x 20L delivered = ?
100 x 30L delivered =?
100 x 50L delivered = ?

Cheers Brad


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## michael_aussie (27/10/11)

Frank23 said:


> Gday, this is Frank.
> We are a professional manufacturer and exporter of stainless steel beer kegs & casks in China.
> 
> Our company
> ...


most home brewers using kegs use ball lock style fittings.
If you could make kegs with these fittings and an oval hatch, for a reasonable price, then you have a huge market here (Australia) and throughout the world.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_keg

http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/sis.html?_nkw=2...EW+BEER+KEG+CO2

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=898


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## DU99 (27/10/11)

WITH COUPLER


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## frankyhx (27/10/11)

bradsbrew said:


> Could you give us a price on 100 of each size delivered to Oz. eg.
> 
> 100 x 20L delivered = ?
> 100 x 30L delivered =?
> ...


FYI, last time we supplied our 10050L kegs to an assuie customer

50L keg with D-type spear CIF Melbourne Price: USD 89/PC (MOQ: 100pcs)

If anybody is interested, drop me a line [email protected]


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## adryargument (27/10/11)

Whats the cleaning procedure with these?
I know my current ball valve cornies sometimes require a light scrub around the top area due to dry froth etc.

So far i have only seen expensive single and duel bay keg cleaners.

Is it possible to clean these thoroughly with a simple solution?

(A small batch micro brewery is in the design, however that's a few years off - so i'm quite interested in the response.)


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## frankyhx (27/10/11)

DU99 said:


> WITH COUPLER


Sorry, mate, we do not provide couplers. We provide kegs with spears.


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## bradsbrew (27/10/11)

Frank23 said:


> FYI, last time we supplied our 10050L kegs to an assuie customer
> 
> 50L keg with D-type spear CIF Melbourne Price: USD 89/PC (MOQ: 100pcs)



Thanks for that Frank. Could you give me the dimensions of your 20L kegs?


Cheers Brad


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## frankyhx (27/10/11)

michael_aussie said:


> most home brewers using kegs use ball lock style fittings.
> If you could make kegs with these fittings and an oval hatch, for a reasonable price, then you have a huge market here (Australia) and throughout the world.
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks a lot for the information. Pity is that we have yet to develop this type of kegs. As far as I know, I don't see any Chinese counterparts making this kind of kegs. Where can I find specific technical details of them?

Thanks again.


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## Feldon (27/10/11)

Thanks for posting Frank.

If you could make kegs with the appropriate cornie holes in to the top (without the posts and oval lid etc.) I think that might be acceptable. Lids and posts are widely available.


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## frankyhx (27/10/11)

bradsbrew said:


> Thanks for that Frank. Could you give me the dimensions of your 20L kegs?
> 
> 
> Cheers Brad


Any time. 

Container 20L --- 20L --- 20L 　
Code EU20 --- EU20 --- EU20	　
Material --- Stainless steel 304	
Height 285mm 285mm --- 285mm	　
Outer diameter
（no Rolling Rims） 395mm --- 395mm --- 395mm	　
Body inter diameter 3922 ---	3922 --- 3922	　
Material thickness 
(Body/top/bottom chimbs）	1.5mm/1.5mm/1.5mm ---	1.2mm/1.2mm/1.2mm ---	1.2mm/1.2mm/1.5	　
Weight 7.95%Kg --- 6.35%Kg --- 6.75%Kg


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## frankyhx (27/10/11)

Feldon said:


> Thanks for posting Frank.
> 
> If you could make kegs with the appropriate cornie holes in to the top (without the posts and oval lid etc.) I think that might be acceptable. Lids and posts are widely available.



You mean the pin lock and ball lock kegs mentioned above?
That is ture. Ta.
We will try to gather more information, and see if it is feasible. Kegs like thses usually come in which dimensions? 
Can anyone clue me in?


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## dkaos (27/10/11)

Frank23 said:


> Well, mate, you can not take a part for the whole. I wonder which factory you purchased your kegs from.



It wasn't kegs, in fact it was game console accessories. I have also had issues importing PC accessories.

I'm not trying to kill your sales, however it's important that people do due diligence first to avoid getting shafted. A lot of people here would probably just look at buying one or two kegs.


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## frankyhx (27/10/11)

Clints Gadgets said:


> It wasn't kegs, in fact it was game console accessories. I have also had issues importing PC accessories.
> 
> I'm not trying to kill your sales, however it's important that people do due diligence first to avoid getting shafted. A lot of people here would probably just look at buying one or two kegs.



I C. I can argue with that. LOL.

I totally understand.


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## kymba (27/10/11)

frank, i like where this thread is going. if you could develop a keg to hold a 23 litre batch you would be on a winner (so 24L about 24L capacity including head space). this is the most common batch size for home brewers

dimensions should be similar to the standard corny kegs so people don't have to stuff around if they want to add a new keg from you - with ball lock posts, and a corny lid

i think cornies measure about 230mm diameter. also, the walls of cornie kegs are no where near as thick as the 50L commercial kegs that megaswill goes into - could be a cost saving option?


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## Nick JD (27/10/11)

kymba said:


> frank, i like where this thread is going. if you could develop a keg to hold a 23 litre batch you would be on a winner (so 24L about 24L capacity including head space). this is the most common batch size for home brewers
> 
> dimensions should be similar to the standard corny kegs so people don't have to stuff around if they want to add a new keg from you - with ball lock posts, and a corny lid
> 
> i think cornies measure about 230mm diameter. also, the walls of cornie kegs are no where near as thick as the 50L commercial kegs that megaswill goes into - could be a cost saving option?



+1

Surely one day, the Pepsi and Coke Cornies will run out.


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## frankyhx (27/10/11)

kymba said:


> frank, i like where this thread is going. if you could develop a keg to hold a 23 litre batch you would be on a winner (so 24L about 24L capacity including head space). this is the most common batch size for home brewers
> 
> dimensions should be similar to the standard corny kegs so people don't have to stuff around if they want to add a new keg from you - with ball lock posts, and a corny lid
> 
> i think cornies measure about 230mm diameter. also, the walls of cornie kegs are no where near as thick as the 50L commercial kegs that megaswill goes into - could be a cost saving option?


Thanks, mate.
That's about the size of a 1/6 bbl keg (American standard) we are currently making. 

A lot of work will have to be done before we can produce this type of keg, and I feel at a loss about where to start. 
I shall talk to my engineer and check it out.


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## bigfridge (27/10/11)

Frank23 said:


> FYI, last time we supplied our 10050L kegs to an assuie customer
> 
> 50L keg with D-type spear CIF Melbourne Price: USD 89/PC (MOQ: 100pcs)
> 
> If anybody is interested, drop me a line [email protected]



Being pressure vessels, do your kegs comply with the relevant Australian standards ?

What testing do ypu do ?

Kegs are pretty expensive bits of gear - what warranties are there and would we have to ship a leaky keg back to China for repairs ?


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## Silo Ted (27/10/11)

Those squat 20l ones are cool. Imagine if you could run all your hoses out of handle hole in the side, you could then have 8 beers in a fridge on tap at once.


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## DU99 (27/10/11)

Prices with Spear's is what i would like to know..rest of the tech spec i can get from the site..also they make 30litre kegs..

i have 19 litre Kegs with s type spear's and i clean them same way as corny's..


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## Dazza88 (27/10/11)

I thought those squat kegs were cool too.


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## wicks (27/10/11)

Frank, I'm pretty sure there are already soda keg manufacturers in china. Google "soda keg china". I'd like to see one of those 20l short kegs with a soda lid and disconects, not sure how hard that would be.


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## anthclarke (27/10/11)

http://buy-china-direct.cn/category/brew-e...gory/soda-kegs/

Look ok?


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## Silo Ted (27/10/11)

anthclarke said:


> http://buy-china-direct.cn/category/brew-e...gory/soda-kegs/
> 
> Look ok?


Ive seen of of these in the flesh, and they are SHIT. Very thin walled, rough internal joins.


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## adraine (27/10/11)

Arnt these the brewcraft kegs?Same stickers and all.


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## michael_aussie (27/10/11)

anthclarke said:


> http://buy-china-direct.cn/category/brew-e...gory/soda-kegs/
> 
> Look ok?






Silo Ted said:


> Ive seen of of these in the flesh, and they are SHIT. Very thin walled, rough internal joins.


there are two things you need to nail Frank.

1. they need to be at the right price.

the s/h kegs we buy are around $50-$80 for 23 litres.
if you are much more than this you will probably fail.
ideally you should be on par with this range.

2. they need to be good quality. the s/h kegs we buy are excellent quality. unless your products are flawless you will definitely fail.


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## frankyhx (27/10/11)

wicks said:


> Frank, I'm pretty sure there are already soda keg manufacturers in china. Google "soda keg china". I'd like to see one of those 20l short kegs with a soda lid and disconects, not sure how hard that would be.




My bad. I will check.


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## kymba (27/10/11)

michael_aussie said:


> there are two things you need to nail Frank.
> 
> 1. they need to be at the right price.
> 
> ...


pretty sure they are ~19L

can you get a corny shipped to you for some reverse engineering?


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## michael_aussie (27/10/11)

kymba said:


> pretty sure they are ~19L
> 
> can you get a corny shipped to you for some reverse engineering?


ooops ... of course they are 19l not 23 litres.... a blonde moment...


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## Sammus (27/10/11)

while we're all dreaming, I want mine to be 27L, 5mm full 316L construction, no welds, and square for optimum fridge packing. They should be made to fit as many as possible into my chest freezer with zero wasted room. I also want to be offered ultra-high quantity bulk pricing, but to be able to by 1 or 2 as I please, and they need to be no more than half the price (shipped of course) of the shitty, rusty, dinged up syrupy cornies that we have to put up with now.


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## Cocko (27/10/11)

I have a couple of 23's kegs but yeah not the norm... but awesome!

If keith could do some 20L and around 40L with a corny style lid and posts, I would say we could pull an order of 100+ here...

I would take a few 40L with Cornie in/out posts and a decent lid for cleaning etc...

2c.


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## sim (28/10/11)

Frank,

can you also do 80 litre kegs?

Cheers,
sim


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## DU99 (28/10/11)

this is there website


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## bigfridge (28/10/11)

sim said:


> Frank,
> 
> can you also do 80 litre kegs?
> 
> ...



I know where you can get 100 litre kegs - pm me for details.


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## mr_tyreman (28/10/11)

I like this thread, Frank seems like he's here to help, dont knock it til we see a result, i'd be keen to turf out my cornies for these if they stacker better and are brand new.

If we can get a good price on a desirable keg setup, lets start a chinese bulk buy...hahahah see where this one goes


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## DU99 (28/10/11)

what we would have to watch is what the australian goverment want to slug us..


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## MarkBastard (28/10/11)

It would be interesting to get a brand new cornie at the same quality as the Italian made 9L ones but 20L beer capacity (so 20L with 1L head space), with the same diametre so just slightly taller.

But I suppose some guys wouldn't want them higher?

It's a tough one, working out the best dimensions. I know in my set up if they were any fatter I'd be able to fit less in so I wouldn't go for it. However I can handle them being higher by up to 5cm easily.


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## Wolfman (28/10/11)

Watching with intrest.


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## frankyhx (28/10/11)

Silo Ted said:


> Those squat 20l ones are cool. Imagine if you could run all your hoses out of handle hole in the side, you could then have 8 beers in a fridge on tap at once.


That is a brilliant idea!!!


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## frankyhx (28/10/11)

DU99 said:


> Prices with Spear's is what i would like to know..rest of the tech spec i can get from the site..also they make 30litre kegs..
> 
> i have 19 litre Kegs with s type spear's and i clean them same way as corny's..


spear S is about the same price as spear D


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## frankyhx (28/10/11)

Silo Ted said:


> Ive seen of of these in the flesh, and they are SHIT. Very thin walled, rough internal joins.


I wonder how thin, lol.


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## frankyhx (28/10/11)

michael_aussie said:


> there are two things you need to nail Frank.
> 
> 1. they need to be at the right price.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the tip. I appreciate that.
s/h kegs? not sure I am following you.


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## DU99 (28/10/11)

USED or RECYCLED


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## frankyhx (28/10/11)

kymba said:


> pretty sure they are ~19L
> 
> can you get a corny shipped to you for some reverse engineering?


We can do that. The problem is that I am still not so familar with corny kegs. Are them mainly used by home brews? The special design of it is to make cleaning easy? pls, give me more information. Ta.


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## DU99 (28/10/11)

Frank..corny keg's are the old type COKE and PEPSI barrels which use to contain the syrup
The link below might help
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_keg


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## frankyhx (28/10/11)

sim said:


> Frank,
> 
> can you also do 80 litre kegs?
> 
> ...


Not really, sim. 
For euro standards, we now mainly make 20L, 30L and 50L
As a factory, we have to think more about funding. We will extend our product range when our funding is more sufficient. 
lol


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## frankyhx (28/10/11)

DU99 said:


> this is there website


Haha, you got me.


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## DU99 (28/10/11)

your company click on the word website


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## frankyhx (28/10/11)

DU99 said:


> Frank..corny keg's are the old type COKE and PEPSI barrels which use to contain the syrup
> The link below might help
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_keg


I will check it out.


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## michael_aussie (28/10/11)

the ideal dimensions of a keg is an argument that will never be resolved.
what suits me, won't suit the next guy, and so on and so on.

Looking at Frank's range:
http://majorbeerkeg.com/Products/European_...rd_Series_1.htm
it appears to me that they are geared up for a set range of kegs.

Frank isn't going to jig up a special diameter for a peanut order.
The best we can hope for is if Frank could incorporate a cleaning hatch and a pair of sockets that are the same thread as the Corny posts. 
If we can get that = at the "right" price = at the "right" quality = we have won the game.

Is is possible? --- of course it is. 

Will it happen?

Well that depends on many things.

Franks company already makes kegs. That's a good start. To try to get kegs made in your run of the mill fab shop 7,000km would be almost impossible. Frank's company make kegs so we are already 80% of the way there. Are his kegs "acceptable quality"? Who knows? What is acceptable for me may not be acceptable for everyone. Is the material "thick enough"? Does that even matter? Will the stainless be an acceptable grade? There are many grades of stainless steel. Are the welds "pretty enough"? What is the pressure rating of the kegs? 130psi? Do they actually need to be rated that high? I certainly never have anywhere near that pressure in my kegs, but it is kind of reassuring that the kegs are rated far above the pressures I operate with. What design will the hatches, pressure relief valves, and post sockets be? I know that the fittings on my current kegs, although notionally the same, arent actually interchangeable. I cannot universally swap dip tubes, PRVs, hatches and posts as small differences mean that A will fit on B but not vice versa. 

Frank, I wish you luck. 

I hope this flies, but I also know how hard it will be to tick all the boxes, dot all the is and cross all the ts.


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## kymba (29/10/11)

if you want cash and following from the community, you need:
1 good quality
2 good price
3 ball lock posts
4 24L capacity
5 corny lid
6 no BS

and whatever i've left out...is it possible frank?


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## DU99 (29/10/11)

i think he is trying to get interest in the product they all ready make..


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## michael_aussie (29/10/11)

DU99 said:


> i think he is trying to get interest in the product they all ready make..


then he's going to fail here


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## DU99 (29/10/11)

i use kegs with couplers..


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## fcmcg (29/10/11)

DU99 said:


> this is there website


DU...
There = over there
Their = theirs...as in their website
they're = they are...
Oneday , you'll get it right lol
Bitch , aren't I...


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## beerdrinkingbob (29/10/11)

fergthebrewer said:


> DU...
> There = over there
> Their = theirs...as in their website
> they're = they are...
> ...


Why don't you two take it outside........


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## fcmcg (29/10/11)

beerdrinkingbob said:


> Why don't you two take it outside........


Why?
Then there would be nothing for you to be amused by ! Maybe the last beer i had last night has given me a headache and a a case of the grumbles lol
You can say " Look ! They're at it again"
Besides , it'll give us something to talk about at the next meeting , besides beer lol


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## frankyhx (29/10/11)

kymba said:


> if you want cash and following from the community, you need:
> 1 good quality
> 2 good price
> 3 ball lock posts
> ...


I am afraid not for the moment. 
We gotta sell our current products well in the first place.
Otherwise, cash is not enough to support r&d and production of new types.


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## frankyhx (29/10/11)

michael_aussie said:


> the ideal dimensions of a keg is an argument that will never be resolved.
> what suits me, won't suit the next guy, and so on and so on.
> 
> Looking at Frank's range:
> ...



Hi, Mike. You pretty much explained everything.
What I prefer is
1. Make a good sale of our current products, which are listed on our website. 
2. Develop new products, perhaps corny kegs. as it seems to be very popular.
3. But sales of corny kegs may be a bit tough, as it is mainly used by homebrewers. Thus, perhaps we will try to find an agent or wholesaler in Austrailia to gather up all the demands for corny kegs. 

Well, you are also quite right about the quality. But, one thing for sure, we pay a lot of our attention to the keg quality. Actually, quality is our biggest selling point, while the price comes next.

Thanks again, Mike.


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## frankyhx (29/10/11)

bigfridge said:


> Being pressure vessels, do your kegs comply with the relevant Australian standards ?
> 
> What testing do ypu do ?
> 
> Kegs are pretty expensive bits of gear - what warranties are there and would we have to ship a leaky keg back to China for repairs ?


We have quite a lot of tests going on.
FYI pressre test, drop test, brust test, color label conglutination test, anti-corrosion (salt spray) test, mechanical test, etc. 
I am not in charge of technical matters, thus this is all I can tell. lol


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## Nick JD (29/10/11)

Frank - check out some of the Youtube videos on kegging setups for homebrewing. The Cornie Keg setup is pretty much universal.

While you may not be currently industrially or financially capable of making Cornie Kegs (I'd find out how big the used stockpile is first and foremost) ball/pin lock connectors and a lid would stir interest among the worldwide kegging folk. This is what their kegging systems are set up to use.

If you could sell a keg that could be used tomorrow by homebrewers without modifying their system (buying things to make the kegs work), you'd sell lots. But you'd have to match the price of a used Cornie (AUD$60), and who knows how manu millions of Cornies are still left in American warehouses?


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## DU99 (29/10/11)

:icon_offtopic: it don't bother me bob..he has nothing better to do..

People have forgotten that asahi comes in 19 litre keg also does Heineken..but they have coupler connection's


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## bigfridge (29/10/11)

Frank23 said:


> We have quite a lot of tests going on.
> FYI pressre test, drop test, brust test, color label conglutination test, anti-corrosion (salt spray) test, mechanical test, etc.
> I am not in charge of technical matters, thus this is all I can tell. lol



lol = Laugh Out Loud

Frank, I don't think that safety is a laughing matter - particularly if you get sued for someone getting hurt or someone has to dump a batch of beer because of flavour tants from poor quality stainess.

If you are serious about being a professional, reliable supplier then you need to answer these questions. 

Do they comply with the Australian standards for pressure vessels ?

What warranties are available ?

If we organise a bulk buy of 100 kegs and some are faulty, have poor quality (ie non-sanitary) welds, rust or leak - do we have to send them back to China for repairs ?

Do a search here for 'Chinese Hops' and you will see that there is a lot of resistance to buying things claimed to be top quality that turn out to be poor imatations of the European originals.

BTW, As a qualified Metallurgist I know a bit about these things


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## DU99 (29/10/11)

:icon_offtopic: it don't bother me bob..he has nothing better to do..

People have forgotten that asahi comes in 19 litre keg also does Heineken..but they have coupler connection's


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## frankyhx (29/10/11)

Nick JD said:


> Frank - check out some of the Youtube videos on kegging setups for homebrewing. The Cornie Keg setup is pretty much universal.
> 
> While you may not be currently industrially or financially capable of making Cornie Kegs (I'd find out how big the used stockpile is first and foremost) ball/pin lock connectors and a lid would stir interest among the worldwide kegging folk. This is what their kegging systems are set up to use.
> 
> If you could sell a keg that could be used tomorrow by homebrewers without modifying their system (buying things to make the kegs work), you'd sell lots. But you'd have to match the price of a used Cornie (AUD$60), and who knows how manu millions of Cornies are still left in American warehouses?



Sorry mate. Youtube is blocked here. 
I will check it on some other sites.


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## frankyhx (29/10/11)

bigfridge said:


> lol = Laugh Out Loud
> 
> Frank, I don't think that safety is a laughing matter - particularly if you get sued for someone getting hurt or someone has to dump a batch of beer because of flavour tants from poor quality stainess.
> 
> ...



Sorry mate, but I never took safety as a laughing matter. 

Yes, they do. We have shipped several containers to Aussie brewers.
We have a 10-year quality assurance, covered by the insurance company, with a LIMIT OF LIABILITY: $10,000,000
We have never come across problems like that, but if it does happen, we can either reimburse you or do as you said, take them back and fix them.


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