# Do tallies mature more slowly than stubbies?



## rick1111082 (11/2/13)

Hi guys bit of background on this brew it was just a k&K mangrove jack Gold with a brew enhancer. dry pitched yeast at 20 degrees and fermented for two weeks at 22 degrees. bottled on the 14th of january. 

But back to the question at hand my stubbies are very nice no apple or banana flavours, but my tallies exhibit those flavours. even the stubbies that I had at a week old didn't taste like cider. my sanitisation for the tallies was blast the living f$ck out of the inside of the bottles with a gerni, soak overnight in napisan. rinse bottles well with hot tap water. bottling day rinse bottles with idophor correctly diluted. prime bottles with a bottle measure.

When I cleaned the stubbies they were just washed and then soaked in napisan and rinsed in idophor. So my question is why do the tallies taste like cider and the stubbies taste fine? they were stored in a cupboard after bottling and thats where they remain because its quite cool about 18-20 degrees. 

when I had a tally yesterday I put it in a deep freezer for 1.5 hours to cool it down. could this cause it maybe from the rapid cooling? 

Anyway guys this is my first post here so please be kind


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## Scottye (11/2/13)

I have been lead to believe that the greater the volume of beer the quicker it ages. Having said that I doubt that the differnence between a stubbie and a tallie would be detectable. I spent 18 months bottling into 750, 640, 500, 375, 345 & 330ml bottles and never noticed any difference. However I have only ever sample one at 2. I have however had a stubie and a tallie, from the same batch, at one month bottled and they have been identical. The other thing for me as that I have never brewed with Mangrove Jack's.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help Nick.


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## rick1111082 (11/2/13)

cheers mate its got me stuffed I put another stubby in the fridge to have with lunch so I will see if I can detect any difference from the couple of tallies I had last night. I had the tallies after trying another brew I made which was boonies LCPA extract clone and it was bloody nice fermented for 2 weeks at 18 degrees in my brew fridge. and its still very young.


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## bum (11/2/13)

VonScott said:


> Having said that I doubt that the differnence between a stubbie and a tallie would be detectable.


Depends on the beer. I make sure that for any US-style brew I always bottle half the batch in stubbies as the longies definitely fade faster.

Rick, huge stab in the dark here but are the longnecks more carbed than the stubbies? Sounds like you're tucking in to them a bit quick and I am wondering if the little ones aren't getting the chance to develop the flavours you find in the big ones. Could also be unfermented priming sugar in the stubbies offsetting the flavour if this is the case. This is me wondering aloud rather than it being based in science or something.


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## Ducatiboy stu (11/2/13)

Short answer. NO


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## warra48 (11/2/13)

I've read that theory a few times on this forum, where larger bottles supposedly mature quicker than smaller bottles.

I have strong doubts this is the case. I'd love to see some evidence to support that theory.

It's certainly not the prevailing logic in wine circles, where it is well established that half bottles mature quicker than bottles, which mature quicker than magnums, etc etc.


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## rick1111082 (11/2/13)

thanks for all your input guys


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## DUANNE (11/2/13)

i find when doing things like brett beers and sours that the stubbies carbonate way faster than longnecks and dont seem to mature quite as nicely in the long term.i presume the larger volume and thicker glass helps to regulate temp changes better as well as the greater volume minimising oxidation effects.


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## Bizier (11/2/13)

NOTHING is more mature than Stubbies.


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## Beerisyummy (11/2/13)

Ahh, Stubbies work shorts. I had to wear them for school sports days. A pedo's wet dream.

My stubbies are definately carbing up quicker than the tallies.
I'm pretty sure the stubbies end up with more air in them after removing the filler wand and they probably warm up faster during the day. That's been my reasoning so far at least.
I find if I fill a few extras and leave them out of the case, on my work bench, they tend to carb up really quickly. The average temperatures are much higher in this situation.


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## carniebrew (12/2/13)

A little OT I know, but has there been much discussion on AHB in the past about what we call various bottle sizes? I picked up pretty quickly on AHB that 750ml bottles are known as 'tallies', which is not a name I'd heard for them before. I have a mate who insists that 750ml bottles should be called "long necks", but I'd always believed that long necks are just 330/375ml stubbies with long, slender necks (e.g. Crown Lager/Carlton Draught...pretty much anything except VB?). And "stubbies" are what we call VB style bottles with short, stubby necks.

I get the feeling it's a state v state thing, like pots v middies v schooners, or even potato cakes v scallops. I'm a bit all over the joint 'coz I was born in Vic, raised in WA and now live in Vic again...


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## bum (12/2/13)

Definitely regional.

Except for the 330/375ml "longnecks". That's just you.


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## carniebrew (12/2/13)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stubby_bottle#Longneck.2C_Industry_Standard_Bottle_.28ISB.29_or_North_American_longneck


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## bum (12/2/13)

The only conversational usages I can find of that term in that context involve "air-quotes".

Still just you, brah.


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## carniebrew (12/2/13)

Argh..when I saw you'd posted either side of me, I was stupid enough to hit 'show anyway'. I wish I hadn't. I thought you were ignoring me? You could have at least googled it ffs.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=330ml+long+neck

http://www2.woolworthsonline.com.au/Shop/ProductDetails?Stockcode=728033&name=arvo-lager-long-neck
http://www.pinkdrinks.com.au/EXPORT-GOLD-LONG-NECK-Bottles-330ml.html
http://www.ponteurope.com/us-en/product/material/1/6 (see LONG NECK BEER 330 ML CROWN 26 AMBER)
http://www.amazon.com/12oz-Amber-long-neck-bottles/dp/B003X4BO64

That's America, Australia AND Europe covered. Still going with just me? Go on...change the subject...i'm now sorry I asked. I really, really wish there was just no way to see your posts at all. Must request that as a feature....


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## Liam_snorkel (12/2/13)

Until this day, I'd never heard anyone ever refer to stubbies as long necks.

here are some words that Australians actually _say_, should you happen to end up in a conversation with one:

http://alldownunder.com/australian-slang/dictionary-drinks-beer.htm
http://www.goingrank.com.au/glossary.html
http://www.koalanet.com.au/australian-slang.html#L

Wikipedia:



> Beer bottles
> 
> 
> Most bottled beer in Australia is sold in either 375 mL (Stubby) or 750 mL (Long Neck) sizes. Carlton United briefly "upsized" to 800 mL; however, this has since been reduced to the original 750 mL. Bottle sizes of 330 mL (and to a lesser extent 345 mL and 355 mL) are becoming increasingly common, particularly among microbreweries. In the Northern Territory, the once-common "Darwin Stubby", a large (2.0-litre) bottle, is now sold largely as a tourist gimmick, but very successfully. Most bottles are lightweight "single use only", though some are still reusable, and in some cases (e.g. Coopers 750 ml), breweries are reintroducing refillable bottles. In South Australia, container deposits on beer bottles and some other types of beverage containers support a well established network of recycling centres, providing significant environmental benefits as well as generating employment opportunities for unskilled workers.


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## punkin (12/2/13)

I despise saying that Bum is right, but a long neck is a 750ml bottle.

Why anyone would discriminate against what shape a bottle is in the same/similar volume is beyond me.

A stubbie is a half a long neck.


Edit, i see, all your references are to ad men and marketers. Not actual people.


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## bum (12/2/13)

carniebrew said:


> Argh..when I saw you'd posted either side of me, I was stupid enough to hit 'show anyway'. I wish I hadn't. I thought you were ignoring me?


In the exact same paragraph you mention that you have me on ignore but read my post and lament that I read yours? Fairly amusing by any measure.



carniebrew said:


> You could have at least googled it ffs.
> 
> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=330ml+long+neck
> 
> ...


I did Google it. You'll notice that I meantioned that I couldn't _find_ any conversational usage of the phrase in the context established by you - that is to say colloquial usage - this indicates some sort of seeking process has occurred, yes? Judging by your evidence you couldn't find any people using the term either? Further to that - the term is being used incorrectly in three of those four links based on your previous wikipedia link (whatever that might be worth).

People don't call any stubbie-equivalent bottle a "longneck" out loud anywhere.

Your initial premise when introducing the idea is that you feel like you're a bit on your Pat Malone in following this usage. Someone confirms it and you lose your shit.

[EDIT: Typos, missed words and formatting issues]


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## JDW81 (12/2/13)

carniebrew said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stubby_bottle#Longneck.2C_Industry_Standard_Bottle_.28ISB.29_or_North_American_longneck


I think the operative word in that link is North American longneck, which comes back to regional differences (although I've never heard of those bottles being referred to as long necks. To me a long neck is the 750mL bottle aka tallie) . I guess it is a similar difference to the term thong.

Saying to a bunk of Yank tourists "Have a captain cook at that group of sheilas over there standing round in their rubber thongs" is likely to elicit an entirely different reaction than if you had said it to a bunch of Aussies.


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## carniebrew (12/2/13)

punkin said:


> I despise saying that Bum is right, but a long neck is a 750ml bottle.
> 
> Why anyone would discriminate against what shape a bottle is in the same/similar volume is beyond me.
> 
> ...


I don't blame you....

Hey so did you ever use 'tallie' in place of long neck for the 750ml bottles? I agree that I'd always call a 330/375ml a 'stubby' in conversation, but was certainly aware of them being called long necks...by the ad men and marketers...


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## Liam_snorkel (12/2/13)

those marketing types are probably people who don't drink beer.


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## warra48 (12/2/13)

Liam_snorkel said:


> those marketing types are probably people who don't drink beer.


They're the ones drinking Corona with the slice of lemon.
And probably doing it with their hair tied in a ponytail at the back. And in their shirtsleaves with braces instead of a belt in their pants, even though all pants are now tailored to fit a belt.


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## bum (12/2/13)

Ponytail? Really? Is this a sketch on Fast Forward?


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## punkin (12/2/13)

carniebrew said:


> I don't blame you....
> 
> Hey so did you ever use 'tallie' in place of long neck for the 750ml bottles? I agree that I'd always call a 330/375ml a 'stubby' in conversation, but was certainly aware of them being called long necks...by the ad men and marketers...



No sorry, i've never used or even heard the word tallie, although i believe people do use it (to describe a 750 ml bottle) after reading here.

Not the other way you say.

Btw, i would have ignored this whole shit if i hadn't read another thread where you'd propogated this stuff recently.
It's not that i'm against people bringing new words into the lexicon, just garbage ones.


NotExactlyMajesticPunkin


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## felten (12/2/13)

Perhaps someone should pen a lexicon on bottles.


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## Beerisyummy (12/2/13)

Tallies, longies. Same same.
A stubbie is great and a traveller is even better.

If you need to see a Fast Forward sketch about ad men just go to Byron. The ponytails still exist.

Getting back to the OP. My chosen bottles for keeping are Coopers tallies and stubbies. The shape of the neck is very similar in both bottles and the bulb that holds the liquid nectar is much bigger by comparison in the tallies.

Are RIMS users rimmers?


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## Slideking (12/4/13)

I lived in Swaziland. The locals call the 750ml's "skottela", (pronounced similar to "bottela") which is a colloquial name for a "skottel", which is a basin!

Just my 2c worth!


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## Mardoo (12/4/13)

It seems like my darker beers taste best bottled in 500's. And I can't imagine this being anything other than my imagination, but I can pick the ones bottled in 500's in blind tastings (as opposed to tasting blind  ). It's an enigma. Or bullshit. I can't decide.


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## manticle (13/4/13)

I have a hernia


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## bum (13/4/13)

Where'd you get it? Interested in organising a BB?


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## goomboogo (13/4/13)

manticle said:


> I have a hernia


Probably from lifting tallies. Try bottling in stubbies as they weigh less.


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## technobabble66 (13/4/13)

Totally off-topic opinion-driven non-technical thread - hell, yes.
I'll contribute my 2c too!

Never heard "tallies" until 24hrs ago reading this.

While i'm loathe to agree with anyone, "longnecks" is clearly the correct word. That's the only label i've ever come across - in Gippsland, Cranbourne, lots of suburbs in Melbourne (inner & outer), Wangaratta, Bendigo, Albury/Wodonga, & Shepparton. That should be a sufficient sample size to verify it's the proper word for 750's for all of australia, nay, the world (except Swaziland).
And those 330-375's are definitely "stubbies"

Or maybe it's just a Vic thing.
(um ... except for the previous vic post-er who'd never heard of longnecks)

'nuff said.

Sorry to hear about your hernia, manticle


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## pcmfisher (13/4/13)

Just to add to the confusion, Coopers used to call 750ml bottles Quarts. 
Wouldn't surprise me if they still do!


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## toolio666 (13/4/13)

375mL VB-like bottles are "Stubbies";
375mL TED-like bottles are "Mid-Necks";
750mL bottles are "Long Necks" or "Tallies".

No idea what to call the 500mL German bottles though...


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## stevemc32 (13/4/13)

Back in the day of the introduction (marketing) of the "cold filtered" beers like Carlton Cold and Hahn Ice both were referred to as being packaged in "long neck" bottles of 375ml. Never heard of "mid-neck" bottles before.

Remember the Carlton Cold plastic stubbies that according to the ad were good for throwing around the pool.

I always knew 750ml bottles as "Tallies".


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## warra48 (13/4/13)

I'm a tallie, because I'm 185cm from the ground to the top of my hairless pate.
I'm sure I'm maturing a lot slower than jockey sized people, as dear mrs warra constantly tells me I have yet to grow up.

So, yes, a larger vessel will mature slower than a smaller one. That's a fact which applies to beer, as well as wine etc.


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## jyo (13/4/13)

I grew up knowing them as King Browns. Must be a W.A. term.


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## camstans (20/5/13)

Ive never called a long neck a tallie . but we did call 500ml cans that when we were in the USA. i dont think they did we just started saying it, much like aussies do.

has anyone ever dry to bottle ferment / carb in a darwin stubbie?


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## jyo (20/5/13)

I use Darwin stubbies regularly and they are great. I use about 2/3 of the sugar I would normally use.


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## Online Brewing Supplies (20/5/13)

jyo said:


> I grew up knowing them as King Browns. Must be a W.A. term.


To bloody right sandgroper.


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## Muscovy_333 (20/5/13)

jyo said:


> I grew up knowing them as King Browns. Must be a W.A. term.


"Kingy's" is common in Melbourne Town, as are the plethra of names being applied for all other shapes and sizes (except long necks for 330-375ml...whats with that!).
W.A. probably has more people from Vicco than gropers these days any way!

Back on topic to some degree, I'd probably hang my hat on someones aforementioned logic.
Smaller bottles, higher ratio of headspace to beer (potentially more 02 to kick off yeast budding), higher rate of heat exchange, ie getting to a warmer temperature quicker for the day and therefore conditioning quicker.
I used to have issues early days with my bulk priming, wishing to avoid adding too much oxygen back to my beer prior to bottling I was getting uneven distribution of priming sugars. The beginning of batch would carb diffrerntly to the tail end. higher C02 also contributed to bittereness so in affect I had different carbonation, flavour and mouthfeel...just putting it out there.


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## mattdean4130 (21/5/13)

Are you pouring them out or drinking from the bottle?

Only way to truly tell, would be to blind test somebody else that doesn't know about brewing practice - and take out all possible variables.


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## rick1111082 (21/5/13)

I should have called this thread do big bottles mature more slowly than little bottles lol


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## Green-Lobster (3/6/13)

Hello . I bottle in everything from stubbies 330/375 ml. to "Darwin stubbies " 2.25 litre.
pint bottles 500ml bottles
This includes 750 ml "king browns" , crown seal . from the 70`s, 80`s, 90`s , hieght and wieght change over the decades.
750 ml screw cap , 800ml screw cap late ninties early 2000.
Cub , coopers , xxxx bottles
Recently i aquired 1.5 litre grolsch swing top bottles , 60 of .
In my experience they all work fine . I work on the wine industry principle , bigger the bottle larger volume , the longer the maturing .
I stick things like vanilla pods ,citrus peel or cinnamon sticks in the largest bottles for vintaging and they turn out a treat.
so in a nut shell stubbies are sample bottles .


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