# How Do Wyeast And Whitelabs Do It?



## Bribie G (29/6/09)

On a UK forum I posted that Ringwood is a good yeast for Yorkshire Bitters because it's originally a Yorkie yeast from the old Hull Brewery in East Yorkshire. I got flamed by people who (apart from being suspicious of foreigners like Poms tend to be) stated that these dastardly foreign knock offs from Wyeast and WLabs are not really the genuine article.

I don't know what they base that on, but I didn't reply because really I have no idea whether this is true or not. It got me thinking that we trust - at least I trust implicitly - that if we order a West Yorkshire Bitter or a Whitbread, we are actually getting a genuine strain. Are they really authentic strains that they have obtained from breweries or other labs, or are they strains that Wyeast et al have developed themselves to closely mirror the originals?

Who actually 'owns' yeast? I'm also thinking about these new Perth Yeasts. For example if I culture up a 1768 from WYeast can I brew up a bath tub full and sell it as Bribie Extra Special Bitter?

Something I've never read much about.


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## glennheinzel (29/6/09)

Chris White mentioned on a Brewing Network show that their Belgian Golden Ale yeast came from a yeast library rather than from Duvel. 

I'm not sure if that is the exception rather than the rule.


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## Screwtop (29/6/09)

BribieG said:


> On a UK forum I posted that Ringwood is a good yeast for Yorkshire Bitters because it's originally a Yorkie yeast from the old Hull Brewery in East Yorkshire. I got flamed by people who (apart from being suspicious of foreigners like Poms tend to be) stated that these dastardly foreign knock offs from Wyeast and WLabs are not really the genuine article.
> 
> I don't know what they base that on, but I didn't reply because really I have no idea whether this is true or not. It got me thinking that we trust - at least I trust implicitly - that if we order a West Yorkshire Bitter or a Whitbread, we are actually getting a genuine strain. Are they really authentic strains that they have obtained from breweries or other labs, or are they strains that Wyeast et al have developed themselves to closely mirror the originals?
> 
> ...




Why not send them the above in an email, I have always had excellent respones to questions from Greg Doss.

[email protected]


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## Sammus (29/6/09)

Those poms are the ones that are so certain, can't you ask them to provide some proof of their claims?


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## LLoyd (29/6/09)

Just a guess but I'm thinking they are selecting (isolating) strains from a pretty large pool. At times they would isolate a strain that WAS found in an original West Yorkshire brew, at other times, strains very similar. 
There's doubt that what we refer to as diffferent strains are different enough to warrant the distinction. So different "strains" we buy/sell would most likely be small groups of yeasts similar to each other. 
Bribie isn't that where US05 (56) came from?


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## warrenlw63 (29/6/09)

Sammus said:


> Those poms are the ones that are so certain, can't you ask them to provide some proof of their claims?



If they're the same Poms on the same forum I'm thinking of they also use dried yeast exclusively. So it just sounds like a case of bagging what they can't obtain.

Warren -


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## Darren (29/6/09)

warrenlw63 said:


> If they're the same Poms on the same forum I'm thinking of they also use dried yeast exclusively. So it just sounds like a case of bagging what they can't obtain.
> 
> Warren -




I suspect they buy their cultures from yeast repositories like this:

http://www.ncyc.co.uk/

cheers

Darren


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## Sammus (29/6/09)

Darren said:


> I suspect they buy their cultures from yeast repositories like this:
> 
> http://www.ncyc.co.uk/
> 
> ...



For a minimum cost of 46 pounds for a single slant, I doubt it. The homebrewers that is, maybe the breweries could afford that.

edit: OR were you answeing the OP question? where do WL or WY get their strains? This would make sense then, except theyd probably get it from the US, not the UK.


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## Bribie G (29/6/09)

Screwtop said:


> Why not send them the above in an email, I have always had excellent respones to questions from Greg Doss.
> 
> [email protected]



Emailed as suggested
:icon_cheers: 

The poms are slowly getting onto liquid yeasts, but remember they are generally ten years behind us in HB - and lets face it in many areas of the UK you can walk out of your door and have a hundred beers to choose from starting from four dollars a pint so why would you want to? Also most average older houses there are ten squares in the old measure, and if you are living in a small terraced house or a semi without a garage etc it's hard to get into HERMS or other 3 vessel brewing and KnK is ideal solution. I used to brew my Tom Caxton kits in the cupboard under the stairs :super: 
Any Pom on the forum will remember the universal cupboard under the stairs, you know the one Mam would lock you in when you were naughty.


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## Swinging Beef (29/6/09)

BribieG said:


> Any Pom on the forum will remember the universal cupboard under the stairs, you know the one Mam would lock you in when you were naughty.


You dont have a lightning shaped scar on your forehead, do you?


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## Online Brewing Supplies (29/6/09)

I cant say how either of the Yeast companies source their yeast and how close the DNA is to the original but here is quote in the latest _Brewer and Distiller_ magazine which may give you some insight..

_"In 1959 it was reported that of the 39 Ale yeast cultures in use commercially in Britain. 12 contained single strain, 16 had two major strains and the rest contained three or more yeast strains."(Anne Hill & Graham Stewart)
_
So you see what may be quoted as a yeast from here may be true but it may not tell the full story of the whole yeast/yeasts used at the brewery.I know there are a few strains quoted as Urquell X and Y etc.
These breweries may well be using "in house" blends of yeasts.
GB


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## newguy (29/6/09)

BribieG said:


> Any Pom on the forum will remember the universal cupboard under the stairs, you know the one Mam would lock you in when you were naughty.



 I wish I was simply locked up. If 'the strap' (an old belt) wasn't handy, whatever mom had in her hands would suffice. I've been hit with about 20kg of bread dough (it was fun trying to wash the grease out of my hair), more sticks than I can count, and the flat side of a knife. Really, the flat side of a knife. <_<

Back on topic. Regarding where they get their yeast strains, I always thought that they got them (some anyway) direct from the brewery in exchange for a % of sales. I'm probably wrong though.


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## bconnery (29/6/09)

warrenlw63 said:


> If they're the same Poms on the same forum I'm thinking of they also use dried yeast exclusively. So it just sounds like a case of bagging what they can't obtain.
> 
> Warren -


And Goldings... Sometimes, again if it's the same forum, I got the impression that there wasn't a beer around that couldn't be made with S04 and EKG, regardless of known information about the ingredients...


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## Fatgodzilla (29/6/09)

bconnery said:


> And Goldings... Sometimes, again if it's the same forum, I got the impression that there wasn't a beer around that couldn't be made with S04 and EKG, regardless of known information about the ingredients...




............ and if they're from Yorkshire, the mash paddle would also be the coal shovel .. add a bit o' colour, like !


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## warrenlw63 (29/6/09)

bconnery said:


> And Goldings... Sometimes, again if it's the same forum, I got the impression that there wasn't a beer around that couldn't be made with S04 and EKG, regardless of known information about the ingredients...



:lol: Also the same forum that posts brewday pics? I must confess I to get envious seeing them using whole hop versions of all the British classics.

Warren -


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## Fatgodzilla (29/6/09)

warrenlw63 said:


> :lol: Also the same forum that posts brewday pics? I must confess I to get envious seeing them using whole hop versions of all the British classics.
> 
> Warren -




yes - the blighters do have something over us ! And they have access to the original for taste comparisons which we can barely do without an air ticket.

And some of those beer shows they have .. :icon_drool2: 


What was the topic again ?


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## Online Brewing Supplies (29/6/09)

warrenlw63 said:


> :lol: Also the same forum that posts brewday pics? I must confess I to get envious seeing them using whole hop versions of all the British classics.
> 
> Warren -


Hey you got a link to this forum? Would be nice to see how the other lot do it.  
GB


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## warrenlw63 (29/6/09)

Gryphon Brewing said:


> Hey you got a link to this forum? Would be nice to see how the other lot do it.
> GB



Sure can. 

here

Warren -


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## Online Brewing Supplies (29/6/09)

warrenlw63 said:


> Sure can.
> 
> here
> 
> Warren -


Thanks , Cricky that dam chicken ad on the home page is a bit much! Makes you want close the page real quick.
GB


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## Phoney (29/6/09)

BribieG said:


> Also most average older houses there are ten squares in the old measure, and if you are living in a small terraced house or a semi without a garage etc it's hard to get into HERMS or other 3 vessel brewing and KnK is ideal solution. I used to brew my Tom Caxton kits in the cupboard under the stairs :super:
> Any Pom on the forum will remember the universal cupboard under the stairs, you know the one Mam would lock you in when you were naughty.



Not exclusive to poms. I live in an 1800's 10sq terrace with no garage and a cupboard under the stairs, and im right here in Sydney!


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## Bribie G (29/6/09)

phoneyhuh said:


> Not exclusive to poms. I live in an 1800's 10sq terrace with no garage and a cupboard under the stairs, and im right here in Sydney!


Ha lucky man, one of my strange Asperger hobbies is collecting streetscapes and photographing terraced houses all over Australia, I'm always tramping around Sydney when I'm there and it's a good way to find all the out of the way pubs as well :beerbang: 









Pity I live in Brisbane where the building of terraces was outlawed following some typhoid epidemics.


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## hairyson (29/6/09)

BribieG said:


> Any Pom on the forum will remember the universal cupboard under the stairs, you know the one Mam would lock you in when you were naughty.



my wife (from Liverpool) calls it the 'cooey'.


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## Phoney (29/6/09)

BribieG said:


> Pity I live in Brisbane where the building of terraces was outlawed following some typhoid epidemics.



:icon_offtopic: 

id take living in a "Queenslander" anyday, especially in the QLD heat.. The big old ones are beautiful...


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## Obidiah Poundage (30/6/09)

BribieG said:


> On a UK forum I posted that Ringwood is a good yeast for Yorkshire Bitters because it's originally a Yorkie yeast from the old Hull Brewery in East Yorkshire. I got flamed by people who (apart from being suspicious of foreigners like Poms tend to be) stated that these dastardly foreign knock offs from Wyeast and WLabs are not really the genuine article.


It was hardly a flaming, but it was a statement of fact even if it was a bit blunt and rather matter-of-fact. Packaged Ringwood yeast does not behave anything like the real stuff from the brewery. In fact almost all packaged yeasts behave nothing like the proper stuff from the respective breweries. The propagation techniques screw them up; at the very least they lose their top-working characteristic, but usually they lose more than that. The packaged Ringwood yeast probably started off as Ringwood yeast; indeed probably more than half of American microbreweries use Ringwood yeast, but after it has been force-grown on low gravity glucose with pure oxygen pumped through it in a bioreactor, it changes into something different.

Methinks someone is watching too much Coronation Street.


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## Supra-Jim (30/6/09)

Obidiah Poundage said:


> Methinks someone is watching too much Coronation Street.



Not Coronation Street, ....


I'll go back to sitting in the corner now.

Cheers SJ


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## hazard (30/6/09)

Obidiah Poundage said:


> The propagation techniques screw them up; at the very least they lose their top-working characteristic, but usually they lose more than that. The packaged Ringwood yeast probably started off as Ringwood yeast; indeed probably more than half of American microbreweries use Ringwood yeast, but after it has been force-grown on low gravity glucose with pure oxygen pumped through it in a bioreactor, it changes into something different.



I used Wyeast 1469 (slurry saved from a previous brew) on my last bew - and having seen the krausen coming through the air lock, i can definitley say it hasn't lost its top-working characteristic. I've seen plenty of pics on this forum of worse episodes than mine.

So are you referring to dry yeast? I understand that it is feed glucose and oxygen as you describe above, to build up its reserves. But is liquid yeast dealt with in the same way? I've got a smack pack of Ringwood in the fridge ready for a brew this weekend, but have always thought that liquid was better than dry - it which way, I can't really say. Perhaps this propagation of dry yeast has some adverse effects that liquid yeast doesn't suffer?

hazard


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## Supra-Jim (30/6/09)

hazard said:


> but have always thought that liquid was better than dry - it which way, I can't really say. Perhaps this propagation of dry yeast has some adverse effects that liquid yeast doesn't suffer?
> 
> hazard



There is more variety in liquid yeasts (as opposed to dry), as not all yeast strains can handle the process of being dried. Hence the options for dry yeast are limited to known strains that handle the drying process well, and will re-hydrate with a minimum of issues.

Cheers SJ


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## Stuster (30/6/09)

Obidiah Poundage said:


> Packaged Ringwood yeast does not behave anything like the real stuff from the brewery.



Well, despite the name, the Wyeast Ringwood yeast doesn't come from the Ringwood brewery apparently. Have a look here. Might explain why this yeast doesn't behave like the brewery yeast.  

Have you noticed that other liquid yeast strains are not like the brewery they are supposed to be from? What difference have you noticed? As somebody else noted, the liquid yeasts we buy certainly don't lose their top fermenting properties. Would love to see a link to how liquid yeast is grown. Even with dry yeast I find dry yeast better in re-pitches than in the first pitch. (Might be all in my head though.  ) I think yeast can adapt back to fermenting the mix of sugars in wort pretty quickly and easily.


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## Bribie G (30/6/09)

Obidiah Poundage said:


> It was hardly a flaming, but it was a statement of fact even if it was a bit blunt and rather matter-of-fact. Packaged Ringwood yeast does not behave anything like the real stuff from the brewery. In fact almost all packaged yeasts behave nothing like the proper stuff from the respective breweries. The propagation techniques screw them up; at the very least they lose their top-working characteristic, but usually they lose more than that. The packaged Ringwood yeast probably started off as Ringwood yeast; indeed probably more than half of American microbreweries use Ringwood yeast, but after it has been force-grown on low gravity glucose with pure oxygen pumped through it in a bioreactor, it changes into something different.
> 
> Methinks someone is watching too much Coronation Street.



I stopped watching Coronation Street when Ena Sharples passed away :lol: . This thread is really interesting and, whilst I haven't heard back yet from the WYeast guy, and especially re the Ringwood yeast I'm quite willing to stand corrected as I note it's likely from a Swedish brewery  . I used to breed dogs and it's analagous, in a way, to arguing whether Labrador Retrievers bred for many decades in Australia and the UK are 'genuine' compared to the original dogs from Labrador or not. I know we are talking different beasts here but same principle. Actually on the subject of genuine brewery yeasts we have the perfect genuine article shipped out to us with every bottle of Coopers Ales. I'm currently onto a 'second generation' pitching of Coopers yeast and it will be interesting to see whether the yeast 'mutates' over subsequent brews.


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## warrenlw63 (30/6/09)

Just to offer up a red herring Wy 1187 (Ringwood) according to the Mr. Malty site was originally the now defunct strain 1742 Swedish Porter strain which supposedly come from the Pripps Brewery in Sweden.

Getting more tangled by the moment.

Edit: Sorry Stu, I just realised your link states the same.

Warren -


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## Bribie G (30/6/09)

That link from Suster is brilliant, I've bookmarked it. Great to see that the mighty 1469 actually comes from Timothy Taylors and a surprise that Bohemian Lager 2124 is supposedly 'just' W- 34/70. Hmmmm lots of food for thought.


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## glennheinzel (30/6/09)

Stuster said:


> Well, despite the name, the Wyeast Ringwood yeast doesn't come from the Ringwood brewery apparently. Have a look here. Might explain why this yeast doesn't behave like the brewery yeast.



The information on the Mr Malty site theorises that White Labs Belgian Golden Ale comes from Duvel whereas the White Labs guys confirmed in a Brewing Network show that it came from a yeast bank. Who knows how accurate any of the other data is? 

Then again, perhaps the yeast bank got their yeast from Duvel?


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## ~MikE (30/6/09)

BribieG said:


> Who actually 'owns' yeast?



noone, GM yeast strains would never be allowed to be released outside of a laboratory, and one can not own non GM organisms.


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## Stuster (30/6/09)

I'm sure many of the yeasts are from yeast banks. And I'm sure that page isn't completely accurate in terms of where yeasts come from. I guess I was just pointing out that the yeast may behave differently to the brewery one because it might not be the same yeast. :icon_cheers: 

And thinking about it a bit more, what exactly is 'proper stuff' in terms of yeast? Breweries also culture up their own yeast and I'd be surprised if they don't use exactly the same techniques for storage and propagation that White Labs/Wyeast/yeast banks use.


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## drsmurto (30/6/09)

warrenlw63 said:


> If they're the same Poms on the same forum I'm thinking of they also use dried yeast exclusively. So it just sounds like a case of bagging what they can't obtain.
> 
> Warren -






bconnery said:


> And Goldings... Sometimes, again if it's the same forum, I got the impression that there wasn't a beer around that couldn't be made with S04 and EKG, regardless of known information about the ingredients...



I have tried in the past to discuss liquid yeasts but got 'brushed off' with comments that S-04 will do just as good a job. 

And bconnery, yes, seems like we over think british recipes when you can clearly clone any beer with EKG and S-04. Funny how they post the recipe from Wheelers book then ignore the information.....

They have taken a liking to Warrens 4 shades of stout tho!


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## Supra-Jim (30/6/09)

Stuster said:


> And thinking about it a bit more, what exactly is 'proper stuff' in terms of yeast? Breweries also culture up their own yeast and I'd be surprised if they don't use exactly the same techniques for storage and propagation that White Labs/Wyeast/yeast banks use.



From memory don't quite a few of the better known/larger american micro's use White Labs/Wyeast/yeast banks to provide/grow/culture/maintain their yeast? Even if it is a 'special' proprietry strain?

Cheers SJ


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## warrenlw63 (30/6/09)

DrSmurto said:


> They have taken a liking to Warrens 4 shades of stout tho!



I noticed that Smurto. That being said they seem to be putting it through 4 shades of bastardization though. :lol: 

Warren -


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## Fatgodzilla (30/6/09)

Stuster said:


> I'm sure many of the yeasts are from yeast banks. And I'm sure that page isn't completely accurate in terms of where yeasts come from. I guess I was just pointing out that the yeast may behave differently to the brewery one because it might not be the same yeast. :icon_cheers:
> 
> And thinking about it a bit more, what exactly is 'proper stuff' in terms of yeast? Breweries also culture up their own yeast and I'd be surprised if they don't use exactly the same techniques for storage and propagation that White Labs/Wyeast/yeast banks use.




Cos I guess the point really is, they name a yeast for what it is "supposed" to produce outcomes like. Not its source.


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## Stuster (30/6/09)

Supra-Jim said:


> From memory don't quite a few of the better known/larger american micros use White Labs/Wyeast/yeast banks to provide/grow/culture/maintain their yeast? Even if it is a 'special' proprietary strain?



Exactly. And AFAIK the bigger breweries do the same, just in house.


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## glennheinzel (30/6/09)

Stuster said:


> I'm sure many of the yeasts are from yeast banks. And I'm sure that page isn't completely accurate in terms of where yeasts come from. I guess I was just pointing out that the yeast may behave differently to the brewery one because it might not be the same yeast. :icon_cheers:



I agree. :icon_chickcheers: 

Of course it might even be the same yeast, but it reacts differently due to any number of variable factors (mutation, pitching rate, shape of fermentation vessels, water profile, grain, temp etc) 



Fatgodzilla said:


> Cos I guess the point really is, they name a yeast for what it is "supposed" to produce outcomes like. Not its source.



That would make sense, although there is a note on the page that says that the brewery name has been included where they are reasonably confident of the source.


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## hazard (30/6/09)

warrenlw63 said:


> Just to offer up a red herring Wy 1187 (Ringwood) according to the Mr. Malty site was originally the now defunct strain 1742 Swedish Porter strain which supposedly come from the Pripps Brewery in Sweden.
> 
> Getting more tangled by the moment.
> 
> ...


But at the same time, Mr Malty site also says that Wy 1187 (Ringwood) is equivalent to WLP005 British Ale yeast, which is from Ringwood - so go figure that one out...


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## Weizguy (30/6/09)

Anyone who has been on AHB for a while knows that I have some old Yeast Lab strains in my yeast farm.

I have read conflicting reports on the origins of these strains and find that the lager yeast produce different beer to the strains that they are meant to resemble.

How the beer turns out depends not only on recipe, brew temp and vessel size/shape, but on yeast culture method, culture medium, pitching rate, yeast nutrient.

In the end, it's about the beer that you make - *the result*.

I'm sure that all my (re-cultured) yeasts have started to take on a house character, so occasionally I grab a new smack-pack and trust that the strain has been maintained in a true state. True to the original purchase, if not the source.

BTW, one of the major (homebrew) yeast producers uses malt and the other uses glucose, to propagate their strains.
So, maybe they cannot be compared directly. Maybe it's deliberate.


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## matti (30/6/09)

At home brew level it is difficult to obtain same results over and over again even with exact same yeast strain and cell count IMHO.

I am sure there are some clever brewers out there that has mastered their brewing to a level where they can achieve results their aimed for most of the time though.

As for commercial yeasts strain over time I doubt that the Porter yeast at Pripps brewery in Sweden is of exact property as it was when it was first cultured and brought to Britain. I would say the Ringwood yeast used in Britain has gained different properties either by deliberate manipulation or by inhouse conditioning over the years.

These days in controlled laboratories the yeasts of Wyeast and Whitelabs of same origin would not differ too much one would think.


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## ~MikE (30/6/09)

matti said:


> These days in controlled laboratories the yeasts of Wyeast and Whitelabs of same origin would not differ too much one would think.


if they were to replace -80C frozen stocks every say 5 years, it'd take decades to change significantly.


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## Darren (30/6/09)

Speaking to David Lodgson, he says they take into consideration many different aspects about each and every yeast they culture. Those colonies that do not conform to the previous test results (colony morphology, size, fermentation characteristics, flocculation and some genetic tests) are not grown or packaged. As Mike suggested, if stored properly there would be very little difference in the strains over many, many years.

cheers

Darren


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## Obidiah Poundage (1/7/09)

There is no way that Ringwood Yeast originated in Sweden. Hull Brewery was founded in 1785, and it is a good guess that the yeast has its origins preceding that date. Hull Brewery closed in 1985 and the head brewer at the time, Peter Austin, set up Ringwood Brewery using the same yeast. As he was an early microbrewer his expertise was in demand for helping to set up micros all over the world. The first micros in Canada and America were installed by Peter Austin, again using the same yeast. At least fifty breweries in the USA use Ringwood yeast. It is probably the most widely used yeast in the world, come to think of it.

The fact that a yeast produces a good head during fermentation does not mean that it is a top worker - that is just yeast being carried up by CO2. Perhaps I should have said that the flocculation characteristics get altered during propagation. Many of us in the UK have tried these yeasts side-by-side (almost) with the original from the brewery, and many of the packaged yeasts simply do not cut the mustard, including the liquid varieties. In fact, yeast cultured up from a bottle-conditioned beer behaves more true-to-type than packaged yeast. A major exception to this is yeast on agar slants; which always seem to work true-to-type.

The fact remains that once somebody has used a real-live brewer's yeast, they are usually reluctant to return to packaged yeasts. 

Bribie is right that Ringwood yeast would be similar to Timothy Taylor's yeast. It is logical that all the yeasts used by breweries in a particular geographical area would have the same origin. Of course 20th/21st century manipulation and the use of conical fermentors by the larger brewers complicates matters somewhat, but in principle that is true. 

As it happens Bribie's original thread on Jim's forum has now been answered more fully.
The Thread in Question


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## manticle (1/7/09)

I might have missed something but I thought the suggestion was that the commercially packaged supposed 'ringwood' liquid yeast had origins in Sweden as opposed to the actual Ringwood yeast.

That's how I read what was going on anyway.

PS: I wouldn't really call that a flaming either BribieG.


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## Bribie G (1/7/09)

OOps when I said 'originally' from Sweden what I really meant to say was that the Wyeast version of Ringwood, reportedly from Sweden, would of course have travelled there from Britain at some stage as a 'migrant' and if you traced its family tree back, its great great great x 10 to the fifteenth ancestor would have, one would hope, lived in Hull, and it was just convenient for Wyeast to have a source from Sweden that they could culture up. I was referring to Wyeast's "original" source, not the origin of the yeast historically.

I take the poster's point made on the other forum that the yeast used at the Ringwood brewery is actually a blend of strains and the packaged variety may only have one or two of the actual yeast strains whilst claiming to be true to the brewery's yeast. Good point about culturing yeasts from bottle conditioned commercial beers, as we do with Coopers.


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## matti (1/7/09)

Ive read the thread and it is all good.
 The Norse would have got most thing from their southern neighbours in the first place.

As for brewing with The ringwood yeast provided by Wyeast or whitelabs I suggest you make a large starter, aerate to buggery and stir or rouse the yeast daily. 

I've brewed with it thrice in the past and it gives beautiful results.
matti


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## DennisKing (1/7/09)

Just to let you know not all us poms are Philistines. I`ve used liquids for years now, and before that it was from bottles of Worthington White shield which in the 1970s-80s was available in ever pub in the uk. Not used dry yeast for 30 years.


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## Bribie G (1/7/09)

I've received a reply from Greg Doss at Wyeast: copy follows, and also you might note that I have made a further request to Wyeast  

Thank you for the helpful information Greg. Also on a related point 
<on knees begging> 1469 </still on knees begging>
;-)

----- Original Message ----
From: Greg Doss <[email protected]>
To:.............
Sent: Wednesday, 1 July, 2009 2:06:30 AM
Subject: RE: Authenticity of strains?

Hi Michael,

Thank you for the email.

Our yeast strains have been sourced directly or indirectly from
breweries and fermentations around the world. We do not engineer or
modify any strains and only assign an appellation based on the original
source.

I hope that this helps.

Cheers,

Greg


Greg Doss
Quality Control Manager
Microbiologist/ Brewer
Wyeast Laboratories, Inc.
888-WYEAST-1 / Fax: 866-WYEAST-1
[email protected]
www.wyeastlab.com


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## Fatgodzilla (1/7/09)

DennisKing said:


> Just to let you know not all us poms are Philistines. I`ve used liquids for years now, and before that it was from bottles of Worthington White shield which in the 1970s-80s was available in ever pub in the uk. Not used dry yeast for 30 years.




DK, your reputation in the Mother Land as a leading homebrewer amongst the Poms is accepted as read here as well. From now on you are David, you have slain the Philistine Goliath.


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## Bribie G (1/7/09)

Fatgodzilla said:


> DK, your reputation in the Mother Land as a leading homebrewer amongst the Poms is accepted as read here as well. From now on you are David, you have slain the Philistine Goliath.



_Hear! hear! _oh Portly one. And pls don't get the impression that I am sneering at the efforts of my former countrymen - my favourite all time bitter that I'm going to brew as my house draught is a version of Camerons Strongarm brewed with helpful advice from members on Jim's beer forum, many of whom live in the Camerons 'catchment area' the lucky bastards.


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## Fatgodzilla (1/7/09)

BribieG said:


> _Hear! hear! _oh Portly one. And pls don't get the impression that I am sneering at the efforts of my former countrymen - my favourite all time bitter that I'm going to brew as my house draught is a version of Camerons Strongarm brewed with helpful advice from members on Jim's beer forum, many of whom live in the Camerons 'catchment area' the lucky bastards.




And when the sleet and snow hits there, you'll have the shorts on supping cold beer on the beach. Know where I'd rather be !

It'd be great to access some of of these english yeasts (from bottles / wherever) .. can we get them through customs ?


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## reviled (1/7/09)

BribieG said:


> I've received a reply from Greg Doss at Wyeast: copy follows, and also you might note that I have made a further request to Wyeast
> 
> Thank you for the helpful information Greg. Also on a related point
> <on knees begging> 1469 </still on knees begging>
> ...



I so hope they bring it back, I think i could only keep mine going for another 10 or so brews, wtf am I gonna do after that


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## gap (1/7/09)

There are at least 3 problems with trying to reculture yeast from Imported beer

1 the freshness of the beer 
2 the conditions the beer has to endure in getting here
3 is the yeast in the bottle the same yeast as used to ferment the beer.

Also ,there would only be a small numbers of beers imported which are bottle conditioned.

Regards

Graeme


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## hazard (1/7/09)

BribieG said:


> my favourite all time bitter that I'm going to brew as my house draught is a version of Camerons Strongarm brewed with helpful advice from members on Jim's beer forum,



Care to post the recipe?

hazard


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## Bribie G (1/7/09)

hazard said:


> Care to post the recipe?
> 
> hazard



:icon_offtopic: I'll get round to posting in the DB eventually, however:

3000g Halcyon or Golden Promise
500g flaked maize (or boiled polenta if you don't mind a bit of mess)
200g Medium Crystal
100g Carafa 2

66 degrees 90 mins

500 sugaz h34r: 

45g Challenger 90 mins
15g Styrian Goldings 10 min

Wyeast 1768 English Special Bitter

I always get a tantalising bit of diacetyl with this yeast.


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## Keith the Beer Guy (1/7/09)

I have memory of Dave Lodgson saying that sometimes their version (wyeast) of the yeast will be different from the source brewery because of when it was originally collected. Time has passed and the original breweries own strain has changed in character.

And I also have a vague recollection that he told a story that after an initial negative reaction to the business he set-up that some breweries have actually obtained fresh yeast culture from him after their own strain went off the rails.

happy Brewing,

K.


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## katzke (1/7/09)

Keith the Beer Guy said:


> I have memory of Dave Lodgson saying that sometimes their version (wyeast) of the yeast will be different from the source brewery because of when it was originally collected. Time has passed and the original breweries own strain has changed in character.
> 
> And I also have a vague recollection that he told a story that after an initial negative reaction to the business he set-up that some breweries have actually obtained fresh yeast culture from him after their own strain went off the rails.
> 
> ...



That sounds about right. One of my favorite beers when I was transitioning to a beer snob was called Red Hook. It just disappeared. Rumor was they lost the yeast that made it special. I did a quick look and it was about the same time that they moved the brewery so the story may have some merit. Some time later a Red Hook ESB was introduced , not even close to what the old one was.


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## altone (25/7/09)

BribieG said:


> Any Pom on the forum will remember the universal cupboard under the stairs, you know the one Mam would lock you in when you were naughty.




Dunno what you're talking about , I was never naughty :lol: 

Ours started life as a walkin pantry, turned into a darkroom when I was a photographer and later, 
yes a few kits were brewed in there.
Then I moved to Aus - best move I ever made...


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## buttersd70 (25/7/09)

BribieG said:


> Any Pom on the forum will remember the universal cupboard under the stairs, you know the one Mam would lock you in when you were naughty.



Luxury! We had to make do with a shoebox, in t'middle of t'street! If we were _lucky_!

:lol:


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## kram (25/7/09)

Chris White (White Labs) has interesting stories on how certain strains were obtained.


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