# RecipeDB - DrSmurto's Landlord



## drsmurto

DrSmurto's Landlord  Ale - English Best (Special) Bitter  All Grain               55 Votes        Brewer's Notes Mash at 65-66C for 90 min, mash out 78C. 90 min boilAim for an OG of 1.043, FG 1.012. ABV 4.1%Adjust 60 min addition so total IBU is 30.Yeast = Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire   Malt & Fermentables    % KG Fermentable      4 kg TF Maris Otter Pale Malt    0.15 kg TF Dark Crystal       Hops    Time Grams Variety Form AA      40 g Fuggles (Pellet, 4.5AA%, 60mins)    30 g Styrian Goldings (Pellet, 5.4AA%, 0mins)    20 g Goldings, East Kent (Pellet, 5.0AA%, 20mins)         20L Batch Size    Brew Details   Original Gravity 1.045 (calc)   Final Gravity 1.014 (calc)   Bitterness 31.9 IBU   Efficiency 70%   Alcohol 4.01%   Colour 19 EBC   Batch Size 20L     Fermentation   Primary 14 days   Secondary 7 days


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## Jakechan

Looks good Doc, I might try it myself.
Cheers,
Jake


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## KHB

What yeast did you use for this??? Definatly making this one!!

KHB


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## raven19

There are just so many good recipes I need to try - need more kegs to fit them all in at home!

For shame on your Dr S!   

This looks the goods too!

Yeast - I assume something suitable for a bitter? i.e. Wyeast 1768

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=2546


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## drsmurto

Finished editing it now. All the details are there except the yeast which is the west yorkshire VSS strain - 1469 (not in the database?)

I currently have 2 x 20L fermenting but didnt have 1469 ready so am doing a direct comparison between ringwood (1187) and thames valley (1275). 

Seems to have gone down well with the SA case swappers. :chug:


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## porky

raven19 said:


> There are just so many good recipes I need to try - need more kegs to fit them all in at home!



You need to drink them faster, problem solved  

Cheers,
Bud


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## hazard

DrSmurto said:


> Finished editing it now. All the details are there except the yeast which is the west yorkshire VSS strain - 1469 (not in the database)




Doc, I've been trying to clone TTL. I understand that it is all Golden Promise, no other grains or adjuncts, and they use caramel for colour. You list Marris Otter in the recipe, is this what you use?

So, I understand that you add choc malt for a bit of colour, but why the munich malt? Is it more important to replicate the flavour or the colour (I assume that you drink Timothy Taylor cause you like the taste, not because you like the colour, so my money is on the authentic flavour!).

I've got 1469 yeast on order and as long as I get it in the next week then a Landlord (either yours or TT's) will be my next brew.

Hazard


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## Bizier

Sweet!
Good one Doc.


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## drsmurto

hazard said:


> Doc, I've been trying to clone TTL. I understand that it is all Golden Promise, no other grains or adjuncts, and they use caramel for colour. You list Marris Otter in the recipe, is this what you use?
> 
> So, I understand that you add choc malt for a bit of colour, but why the munich malt? Is it more important to replicate the flavour or the colour (I assume that you drink Timothy Taylor cause you like the taste, not because you like the colour, so my money is on the authentic flavour!).
> 
> I've got 1469 yeast on order and as long as I get it in the next week then a Landlord (either yours or TT's) will be my next brew.
> 
> Hazard



The Munich addition is there after a few chats on the old Grumpys forum with Wessmith regarding malt selection. Without the choc addition the colour is still under so i started adding very small amount of choc. Aside from the fact this brings the colour into the right range i like the subtle flavour addition it adds as well. (i also love adding munich to just about every beer i make)

MO is what i have been using as up until recently golden promise (and in particular the floor malted version) hasnt been available here.

My 2 x 20L batch is actually also a test run for Thomas Fawcetts Floor malted MO without a munich addition.

i will one day try GP.

The recipe i put in the DB is the one i have made 3 times unchanged (so i am very happy with it) and also was my contribution to the case swap so it allows those who have tasted it to provide some unbiased feedback.

Cheers
DrSmurto


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## Bribie G

I've been doing a similar Yorkie with 5 kg of Maris Otter, fuggles (NZ 5.7 AA) EKG and styrian goldings and the 1469 yeast. I'm interested in the choc malt, as I've been using crystal. Of course the crystal gives a distinct flavour which I like, but I'll definitely give the choc a whirl in my next Yorkshire Bitter and see if it provides a more commercial taste.

The Thomas Fawcett floor malted Maris Otter is made at Castleford, West Yorkshire, although at the opposite end of the county from Keighley (pron: keeth - lee), home of Timothy Taylors, and would be an authentic choice for Tadcaster style ales - Castleford is just down the road from Taddie - but TF MO would be certainly appropriate for any Yorkshire bitters.


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## brendo

this looks awesome... will have to add it to my list...

Brendo


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## Ross

I've found using just Caraaroma for colour with just straight floor malted, you get the correct flavour profile for TTL - This was discovered on a recent side by side judging session. The beer I did was not a TTL clone, but the grain bill will be the basis for my next clone attempt. 


cheers Ross


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## drsmurto

BribieG said:


> I've been doing a similar Yorkie with 5 kg of Maris Otter, fuggles (NZ 5.7 AA) EKG and styrian goldings and the 1469 yeast. I'm interested in the choc malt, as I've been using crystal. Of course the crystal gives a distinct flavour which I like, but I'll definitely give the choc a whirl in my next Yorkshire Bitter and see if it provides a more commercial taste.
> 
> The Thomas Fawcett floor malted Maris Otter is made at Castleford, West Yorkshire, although at the opposite end of the county from Keighley (pron: keeth - lee), home of Timothy Taylors, and would be an authentic choice for Tadcaster style ales - Castleford is just down the road from Taddie - but TF MO would be certainly appropriate for any Yorkshire bitters.



tried 2% crystal in my first TTL and found it too sweet.

TTL is a dry crisp bitter so for me the crystal stood out too much. Mashing at 65 with only the small amount of choc malt gives (to my taste) a clean crisp bitter that i can chug to my hearts content - same as what i did to pints of TTL in the ol dart. 

EDIT - Ross, havent used caraaroma very much but can see how that would get it to the right colour. What mash temp did you use?


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## Effect

Am so going to give this a go!

I think that I might do some carmalisation to the first litre or two of the first runnings to help with the colour instead of adding choc - basically because carmalisation of the first runnings is my new fad atm. But I like the simplicity of the choc.

50 grams of choc? How dark does that make it? How are the 2 you got fermenting atm? Did they turn out as planned?


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## drsmurto

Phillip said:


> Am so going to give this a go!
> 
> I think that I might do some carmalisation to the first litre or two of the first runnings to help with the colour instead of adding choc - basically because carmalisation of the first runnings is my new fad atm. But I like the simplicity of the choc.
> 
> 50 grams of choc? How dark does that make it? How are the 2 you got fermenting atm? Did they turn out as planned?



EBC = 21

The 2 on the go are ccing. Will leave them at 1C till a keg runs out.


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## Ross

DrSmurto said:


> tried 2% crystal in my first TTL and found it too sweet.
> 
> TTL is a dry crisp bitter so for me the crystal stood out too much. Mashing at 65 with only the small amount of choc malt gives (to my taste) a clean crisp bitter that i can chug to my hearts content - same as what i did to pints of TTL in the ol dart.
> 
> EDIT - Ross, havent used caraaroma very much but can see how that would get it to the right colour. What mash temp did you use?




I mashed at 64c. Did a best bitter at 1048 - dropped to 1010 using the TTL yeast.

Cheers Ross


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## BoilerBoy

G'day Dr Smurto,

What flavour impact did the 500g munich have? 
The reason I ask is that I was considering a similar addition of Wey Munich II, this was after a batch of 100% Bairds GP I did last year where I boiled down 10L of 1st runnings and was surprised at the difference it made, but still fell short of flavour and colour.

Now that I have a bag of TF GP, I will repeat the original attempt just to see the the difference compared to the Bairds GP, but if it ends up the same The addition of some minich II was going to be my next step, so Just to repeat my original Question What impact did the Munich 1 have?

Cheers,
BB


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## drsmurto

BoilerBoy said:


> G'day Dr Smurto,
> 
> What flavour impact did the 500g munich have?
> The reason I ask is that I was considering a similar addition of Wey Munich II, this was after a batch of 100% Bairds GP I did last year where I boiled down 10L of 1st runnings and was surprised at the difference it made, but still fell short of flavour and colour.
> 
> Now that I have a bag of TF GP I will repeat the original attempt just to see the the difference compared to the Bairds GP, but if it ends up the same The addition of some minich II was going to be my next step so Just to repeat my original Question What impact did the Munich 1 have?
> 
> Cheers,
> BB



BB - I just found that it lacked real malt oopmh that i get when drinking TTL so the munich addition was to up the malt backbone. 

Ross - Mash temp of 64 with the extra crystal malt makes sense. The TTL yeast is a beast - 78% attenuaton. That would definitely have the dry crisp character of TTL.


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## ~MikE

how essential is the MO? i only had standard ale/pilsner malt at my disposal plus usual specialties -  am sooo keen on brewing this tomorrow and try out the new kettle


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## Ross

~MikE said:


> how essential is the MO? i only had standard ale/pilsner malt at my disposal plus usual specialties -  am sooo keen on brewing this tomorrow and try out the new kettle



I believe a good base malt is essential for this beer. If not, add a little Munich as the Dr has.

cheers Ross


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## Paul H

Ross said:


> I've found using just Caraaroma for colour with just straight floor malted, you get the correct flavour profile for TTL - This was discovered on a recent side by side judging session. The beer I did was not a TTL clone, but the grain bill will be the basis for my next clone attempt.
> 
> 
> cheers Ross



How much cararoma Roosco? what percentage of the grain bill?

Cheers

Paul


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## braufrau

Hmmm ... I might try a variation on this according to what hops I have in the fridge in the middle of the year.
I need a beer that will conidtion for 101 days  and be good for drinking in January.


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## Ross

Paul H said:


> How much cararoma Roosco? what percentage of the grain bill?
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Paul



I used 5% but had 10% maize in the bill which would have dropped the colour a tad. I wouldn't use maize with the lower OG, so just use the cararoma to match the colour you are after. I'm guessing at 3 to 4%.


cheers Ross


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## Ross

braufrau said:


> Hmmm ... I might try a variation on this according to what hops I have in the fridge in the middle of the year.
> I need a beer that will conidtion for 101 days  and be good for drinking in January.




Braufrau - This is a style best enjoyed young & fresh. 3 months conditioning won't do it any favours.

cheers ross


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## braufrau

Ross said:


> Braufrau - This is a style best enjoyed young & fresh. 3 months conditioning won't do it any favours.
> 
> cheers ross



Poop! 

Hmmm ... well maybe I'd better see what I've got left in terms of hops in Sept. and put out a recipe suggestion request.
I'll have mostly EKG and target.


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## drsmurto

braufrau said:


> Poop!
> 
> Hmmm ... well maybe I'd better see what I've got left in terms of hops in Sept. and put out a recipe suggestion request.
> I'll have mostly EKG and target.



English IPA :icon_drool2:


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## braufrau

DrSmurto said:


> English IPA :icon_drool2:



That makes sense!


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## Back Yard Brewer

Made this on near on two weeks ago. Primary for 10 days (1.016) Racked to secodary checked gravity again after two days and it is still stuck on 1.016 at 3.6% abv. Not sure what the story is here so I will give another 24hrs and then chill. I used 1318 which is not what Smurto has used.


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 38.00 L 
Boil Size: 50.09 L
Estimated OG: 1.046 SG
Estimated Color: 20.5 EBC
Estimated IBU: 36.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
6.84 kg Marris Otter (Bairds) (5.9 EBC) Grain 86.96 % 
0.95 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 12.08 % 
0.08 kg Bairds Chocolate Malt (Dark) (1300.0 EBC) Grain 0.97 % 
78.49 gm Fuggles 07 Crop [3.90 %] (60 min) Hops 20.5 IBU 
78.49 gm Goldings, East Kent (07 crop) [4.90 %] (2Hops 15.6 IBU 
40.00 gm Styrian Goldings plugs [2.30 %] (0 min) Hops - 
2 Pkgs London Ale III (Wyeast Labs #1318) Yeast-Ale 


BYB

Edit: The above results a quite accurate. Ran samples through the lab at work.


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## Cocko

I am Chuggin on this badboy as I type!!

It is young, probably shouldn't say how young... BUT is an awesome beer!!

I did a lamens version with a S-04 reclaimed yeast cake BUT F$CK!! It is a god drop!

Smurto, you have done it again!


:icon_drunk:


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## Screwtop

Plan on doing this when the brewery is back in operation after the move. Going the other way mash at 67 for malt but adding some Lyles to help finish it low.

Screwy


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## Cocko

ScrewTop,

DO IT!, If i could recommend a recipe this would be it ... 

anyway, Carry on!

C to the O to the C to the K to the mudda farkin O!


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## hazard

I am half way through making a batch right now, although have modified as a partial. My adjusted recipe is for 23 L:
2.5 kg Golden Promise malt
0.5 kg munich malt
1 kg light dme
styrian goldings, fuggles (60 min), EKG (10 min)
wyeast 1469 (1.5 L starter)

Haven't bothered with chocolate malt, as I expect to get extra colour from the DME.

Dr S - I recall seeing somewhere on this forum that you ferment this yeast at 21 deg - is this correct?
For a partial like this, is there any advantage/ disadvantage to using DME over LME?

Thanks for the recipe!


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## mje1980

Back Yard Brewer said:


> Made this on near on two weeks ago. Primary for 10 days (1.016) Racked to secodary checked gravity again after two days and it is still stuck on 1.016 at 3.6% abv. Not sure what the story is here so I will give another 24hrs and then chill. I used 1318 which is not what Smurto has used.
> 
> 
> Recipe Specifications
> --------------------------
> Batch Size: 38.00 L
> Boil Size: 50.09 L
> Estimated OG: 1.046 SG
> Estimated Color: 20.5 EBC
> Estimated IBU: 36.0 IBU
> Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
> Boil Time: 60 Minutes
> 
> Ingredients:
> ------------
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 6.84 kg Marris Otter (Bairds) (5.9 EBC) Grain 86.96 %
> 0.95 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 12.08 %
> 0.08 kg Bairds Chocolate Malt (Dark) (1300.0 EBC) Grain 0.97 %
> 78.49 gm Fuggles 07 Crop [3.90 %] (60 min) Hops 20.5 IBU
> 78.49 gm Goldings, East Kent (07 crop) [4.90 %] (2Hops 15.6 IBU
> 40.00 gm Styrian Goldings plugs [2.30 %] (0 min) Hops -
> 2 Pkgs London Ale III (Wyeast Labs #1318) Yeast-Ale
> 
> 
> BYB
> 
> Edit: The above results a quite accurate. Ran samples through the lab at work.




Maybe the 12% munich??, just a guess really. 


THis sounds like an interesting recipe. I love m bitters, but i havent used munich in bitters. I used vienna in a 3.5%er which worked well, but i've been keeping them simple for a while. hmmmm got me interested now, especially with all these great reviews!


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## buttersd70

hazard said:


> Dr S - I recall seeing somewhere on this forum that you ferment this yeast at 21 deg - is this correct?
> For a partial like this, is there any advantage/ disadvantage to using DME over LME?
> 
> Thanks for the recipe!



DrS has mentioned a few times fermenting warm with this yeast to push the esters (I do the same thing. Those stonefruit esters in 1469 are _choice_.)

If you do brew >20c, you need to be careful....the warmer the ferment, the faster it will go; the faster it ferments, the more heat it produces; the more heat it produces, the bigger the difference between ferment temperature and ambient; and the more heat it produces, the faster it goes, bringing it full circle in a vicious cycle that can get away from you if you're not careful. Normally you would expect a degree or 2 different between ferment temp and ambient....I've had 1469 up to 6C over ambient, because it was racing so much. So whilst fermenting at 21 or even 22C is fine for this yeast, just be careful that it doesn't race away from you.  (if you use a fridgemate and have the thermo on the actual fermenter itself, instead of just reading the ambient in the fridge, it will take care of itself and prevent this. I don't have such luxuries...)


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## Bribie G

buttersd70 said:


> DrS has mentioned a few times fermenting warm with this yeast to push the esters (I do the same thing. Those stonefruit esters in 1469 are _choice_.)
> 
> If you do brew >20c, you need to be careful....the warmer the ferment, the faster it will go; the faster it ferments, the more heat it produces; the more heat it produces, the bigger the difference between ferment temperature and ambient; and the more heat it produces, the faster it goes, bringing it full circle in a vicious cycle that can get away from you if you're not careful. Normally you would expect a degree or 2 different between ferment temp and ambient....I've had 1469 up to 6C over ambient, because it was racing so much. So whilst fermenting at 21 or even 22C is fine for this yeast, just be careful that it doesn't race away from you.  (if you use a fridgemate and have the thermo on the actual fermenter itself, instead of just reading the ambient in the fridge, it will take care of itself and prevent this. I don't have such luxuries...)



My first 1469 was brewed without temp control because it was still 22 ambient and 11 at night. It got away on me and ended up at 27 degrees  It ended up quite ordinary (It was a partial as well) but it got drunk eventually.

On the temperature issue, The old Yorkshire stone square system ferments at 15 to 16 or thereabouts and I'm interested to note the 'stone fruit' flavours. I'm going to do a TTL and will use the recipe in this thread along with 1469 and might give the higher temp a whirl to see what flavours eventuate. Probably hold to 19 for the first mad rush then ease it up a bit. I can also do this perfectly using my 'doonah wrap and ice bottles method' which will free up the beer fridge for another brew


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## drsmurto

hazard said:


> I am half way through making a batch right now, although have modified as a partial. My adjusted recipe is for 23 L:
> 2.5 kg Golden Promise malt
> 0.5 kg munich malt
> 1 kg light dme
> styrian goldings, fuggles (60 min), EKG (10 min)
> wyeast 1469 (1.5 L starter)
> 
> Haven't bothered with chocolate malt, as I expect to get extra colour from the DME.
> 
> Dr S - I recall seeing somewhere on this forum that you ferment this yeast at 21 deg - is this correct?
> For a partial like this, is there any advantage/ disadvantage to using DME over LME?
> 
> Thanks for the recipe!



The choc is really only there for a colour adjustment but it does add just a little extra dimension. 

Yep, i push this yeast to its limits. Up to 22 but as Butters said, keep a close eye on it. I have been using either mother nature to keep it in check (air temp was 18 but the brew was at 22) or the old dead fermenting fridge with ice to cool it down.

Dont see the LME/DME making a huge difference with this recipe as your are getting plenty of flavour from the GP and munich.

Let us know how it goes.

Cheers
DrSmurto

p.s. Had several pints of BYBs version (Noel Springs) on Friday night. Very tasty drop.


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## hazard

OK, I pitched yesterday at about noon, and woke up this morning to strong fermentation activity. Ambient temp in Melb is 17 deg, and fermenter is at 20 deg (how accurate are those things you stick on the side, anyway?) There is a real fruity aroma coming from tbe airlock, esters from the 1469 I assume.

Melbourne is supposedly warming up to mid-twenties during the week, I have bought a temp mate and need to connect it up because I don't want this thing running away from me. WIll give another report in a few weeks.

hazard


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## captaincleanoff

i only have access to whitelabs yeast. What would be the closest whitelabs to the wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire?


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## technocat

Ross said:


> I mashed at 64c. Did a best bitter at 1048 - dropped to 1010 using the TTL yeast.
> 
> Cheers Ross



Hi Ross: Re TTL I managed 1048 down to 1010 @ 21L using 1469 18-20C over three weeks. I have kegged it after a real fiery fermentation. Tastes great but will wait a few weeks before tapping it. I mashed at 65C I have yet to take some of the slurry off after getting a couple of longnecks of what was left over and it is still burping away quite happily. 

Cheers


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## drsmurto

Well my latest versions missed.

I used the TF FM MO and 1-2% choc.

1 batch used 1275 and was quite boring, the 2nd batch i kegged on the weekend used 1187 and is the better of the 2 but still not as good as the original. Will throw a plug of styrians in to help it along.

Ross - Going give caraaroma a go in the next version and go back to 1469.


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## technocat

This was my variant, View attachment 26073
had a glass at lunchtime.............not bad.


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## Bribie G

I have all the ingredients in my stash except for Munich 1. I have Munich 2, would that be much of a problem? Also I am out of 1469 and intend to use s-04.


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## technocat

Bribie, the munich only represents around 12% of the grain bill, I haven't used munich ll myself as I bought a 25Kg bag of munich l as it features in many recipes so I guess the small quantity won't make that much difference. However the major difference will come with subbing the yeast. 1469 is a unusual and special yeast wild and unpredictable, and I farmed mine for future brews.

Cheers


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## AndrewQLD

Thought I post a pic of my attempt. followed the good Doctors instructions to the letter.





very nice beer indeed.


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## drsmurto

BribieG said:


> I have all the ingredients in my stash except for Munich 1. I have Munich 2, would that be much of a problem? Also I am out of 1469 and intend to use s-04.



A tad late on this one Bribie, my apologies.

Munich II would be fine and to be honest, i am keen to see how that variation turns out.

Subbing S-04 for 1469?

I think Butters is on his way up to give you a talking to. :lol: 

1469 is a must. I've tried 1098, 1187 and 1275 and all are inferior to 1469.


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## buttersd70

DrSmurto said:


> I think Butters is on his way up to give you a talking to. :lol:
> 
> 1469 is a must. I've tried 1098, 1187 and 1275 and all are inferior to 1469.



Bwaaahh, I'll need to leave that to Muckey.  

Interestingly, though, I did a version of this the other week that was a corker. It was a bit of a throw together to get rid of some old grain.
1% carafa s1
1% caraaroma
1.5% JW trad ale, roasted to 120C (roughly to the colour of Munich 2)
the remainder was golden promise.
OG 1038, mash 69, FG 1012. Reduced the 60min to give 0.65 BUGU. [email protected] Beautiful.


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## Bribie G

DrSmurto said:


> A tad late on this one Bribie, my apologies.
> 
> Munich II would be fine and to be honest, i am keen to see how that variation turns out.
> 
> Subbing S-04 for 1469?
> 
> I think Butters is on his way up to give you a talking to. :lol:
> 
> 1469 is a must. I've tried 1098, 1187 and 1275 and all are inferior to 1469.



yup I've done a Cameron's Strongarm Bitter instead from Graham Wheeler's book with the s-04. What's the go with Muckey, he's supposed to be coming up this way? He's being a bit coy, might PM him and see what his itinerary is so we can ply him with strong liquors.


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## PhilA

Hi Dr Smurto I have brewed your recipe to the letter and fiddled with it a bit, with odds and sods, got to tell you it definetly is a favourite house beer 
Cheers Phil :super:


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## drsmurto

Philbrewalager said:


> Hi Dr Smurto I have brewed your recipe to the letter and fiddled with it a bit, with odds and sods, got to tell you it definetly is a favourite house beer
> Cheers Phil :super:



Nice work Phil :beer: 

I have my ringwood version on tap now and whilst not as good as the recipe in the DB its still an easy drinking pint. :chug:


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## gibbocore

i've got something similar to this with a touch of carared and my lordie does it taste fricken special.


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## captaincleanoff

i just made up a big starter to do a 65L batch of this. Couldnt get 1469 so I used WLP002 english ale yeast. Hope it still comes out alright!


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## drsmurto

Seems to have a comparable attenuation (to 1469) so i reckon you are good to go. Used the Wyeast alternative (or at least the alternative as listed here - Link) and was happy with the results.


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## captaincleanoff

how important is it to use the exact brands of grain in recipes?

I have always used JW grains in pretty much everything, and never have given much of a thought to it.

Have I been making a mistake using only JW?


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## drsmurto

captaincleanoff said:


> how important is it to use the exact brands of grain in recipes?
> 
> I have always used JW grains in pretty much everything, and never have given much of a thought to it.
> 
> Have I been making a mistake using only JW?



Couldnt tell you as i have never used JW trad in this recipe and have never used JW Munich in anything.

I have found in other english beers that had JW ale as the base but bulked up with Munich turned out well. But that was Weyermann Munich and i dont know how big a difference there is between the weyerman and JW Munichs.

I wouldnt say its a mistake, a lot of ppl use JW or BB malts as the base in their beers.


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## buttersd70

For my 2c, JW is a good base for a lot of things, but as DrS mentioned, it really needs bulking out in some things. I often use JW : WeyMunich in a 2:1.


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## Bribie G

Dr Smurto

Last night at BABBs we had a huge TTL night with a large brew split 25 ways (not necessarily to your recipe) brewed at a microbrewery and each of 25 members did their cube with a different yeast and brought a keg or bottles in for sampling. The differences were amazing. For example DO NOT USE NOTTINGHAM :lol: 

I couldn't attend the brewday so missed out.

However the standout IMHO was the yeast "Ringwood". The Ringwood brewery in Hampshire bought the old yeast from the Northern Ales Hull Brewery (Yorkshire) when it closed down and it's a true flocculating Yorkie. The esters and complex flavours were incredible.

I'm going to use it in my next Yorkshire as I've run out of 1469  and wondering if you have used this yeast with your TTL ?


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## captaincleanoff

how different are Goldings, East Kent and Styrian Goldings?

Have heaps of Styrian here, but dont have any East Kent.. Can go down to the HBS to get some East Kent, but just wondering if I could use all Styrian?


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## roger mellie

1469 Smacked and bursting at the seams - Dr Smurtos recipe to the letter.

1630 kick off - cant wait.

:beerbang: 

RM


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## phonos

captaincleanoff said:


> how different are Goldings, East Kent and Styrian Goldings?
> 
> Have heaps of Styrian here, but dont have any East Kent.. Can go down to the HBS to get some East Kent, but just wondering if I could use all Styrian?



There is a pretty big difference there - I wouldn't substitute them.


----------



## drsmurto

BribieG said:


> Dr Smurto
> 
> Last night at BABBs we had a huge TTL night with a large brew split 25 ways (not necessarily to your recipe) brewed at a microbrewery and each of 25 members did their cube with a different yeast and brought a keg or bottles in for sampling. The differences were amazing. For example DO NOT USE NOTTINGHAM :lol:
> 
> I couldn't attend the brewday so missed out.
> 
> However the standout IMHO was the yeast "Ringwood". The Ringwood brewery in Hampshire bought the old yeast from the Northern Ales Hull Brewery (Yorkshire) when it closed down and it's a true flocculating Yorkie. The esters and complex flavours were incredible.
> 
> I'm going to use it in my next Yorkshire as I've run out of 1469  and wondering if you have used this yeast with your TTL ?



Got 1 on tap now Bribie! I dropped the munich and used the TF FM MO. Ended up dropping a styrian plug into the keg. Tasting very nice. Using ringwood meant FG was 2 points higher from memory. 





captaincleanoff said:


> how different are Goldings, East Kent and Styrian Goldings?
> 
> Have heaps of Styrian here, but dont have any East Kent.. Can go down to the HBS to get some East Kent, but just wondering if I could use all Styrian?



2 very different beasts. The styrian aroma is big but the EKG flavour still comes thru. 

That said, a few ppl have made all styrian bitters with great results. It will just be a tad different to this beer.


----------



## roger mellie

roger mellie said:


> 1469 Smacked and bursting at the seams - Dr Smurtos recipe to the letter.
> 
> 1630 kick off - cant wait.
> 
> :beerbang:
> 
> RM



I week has passed - that 1469 still has a monster head on it - dropping 1 point a day for the last 2 days - now at 1.011 - so crash chill she goes.

I have upped the temp to 21 Deg C over the last 3 days as well - the SG samples taste absolutely awesome.

Hopefully Filter and Keg tomorrow - Picture and review to follow but all looks superb so far.

Question for Dr Smurto - have you every keg hopped this one? edit - DUH - I just read the previous post. Thats what I was thinking - a Styrian Plug.

Cheers

RM


----------



## roger mellie

roger mellie said:


> I week has passed - that 1469 still has a monster head on it - dropping 1 point a day for the last 2 days - now at 1.011 - so crash chill she goes.
> 
> I have upped the temp to 21 Deg C over the last 3 days as well - the SG samples taste absolutely awesome.
> 
> Hopefully Filter and Keg tomorrow - Picture and review to follow but all looks superb so far.
> 
> Question for Dr Smurto - have you every keg hopped this one? edit - DUH - I just read the previous post. Thats what I was thinking - a Styrian Plug.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> RM



I know, I know - not a bitter glass - probably overcarbonated - but importantly a really flavoursome ale.

I used 70gms of Chocolate (tare malfunction on my scales) hence it is a smidge darker than others I have seen - but the lovely vanilla spice aroma and the earthy vege characters from the EKG are there.

A very chuggable beer. Definitely a recipe to keep.

Cheers Smurto.

RM


----------



## Rob C

roger mellie said:


> I know, I know - not a bitter glass - probably overcarbonated - but importantly a really flavoursome ale.
> 
> I used 70gms of Chocolate (tare malfunction on my scales) hence it is a smidge darker than others I have seen - but the lovely vanilla spice aroma and the earthy vege characters from the EKG are there.
> 
> A very chuggable beer. Definitely a recipe to keep.
> 
> Cheers Smurto.
> 
> RM
> 
> View attachment 26821
> 
> View attachment 26822



Looks good RM but stop teasing me. Have mine fermenting at the moment, down to 1.018

Cheers
Rob


----------



## roger mellie

Rob C said:


> Looks good RM but stop teasing me. Have mine fermenting at the moment, down to 1.018
> 
> Cheers
> Rob



This yeast is good stuff - make sure you harvest some .

I dont see this keg lasting long.

:beer:

RM


----------



## drsmurto

Damn it Roger, barely gone 9am and i want a beer!

Looks very nice despite the glass


----------



## roger mellie

DrSmurto said:


> Damn it Roger, barely gone 9am and i want a beer!
> 
> Looks very nice despite the glass



I like this beer so much - it has settled down in the keg nicely - drinking superbly - I am going to do another this weekend.

With a bit of luck the Low Low Level Trip wont have sounded on the first keg so I can do a comparison.

There will be a couple of changes - This one will use TFMO - only 50gms of Chocolate and I am going to try 1187 this time.

And I will buy a proper glass before I taste it - maybe a PhAT.

Beers

RM


----------



## Bribie G

I've got an 1187 in the fridge waiting to go but I'll be attempting Ringwood's forty niner this time, then save yeast and go the TTL next time.


----------



## JonnyAnchovy

Doing my spin on this next week, but thinking of using golden promise over marris otter. Anyone used GP in this recipe before? I've got both on hand, so I can use MO if it is hands-down better.


----------



## reviled

JonnyAnchovy said:


> Doing my spin on this next week, but thinking of using golden promise over marris otter. Anyone used GP in this recipe before? I've got both on hand, so I can use MO if it is hands-down better.



Timothy Taylor use 100% Golden Promise in Landlord, so should be fine mate!


----------



## JonnyAnchovy

reviled said:


> Timothy Taylor use 100% Golden Promise in Landlord, so should be fine mate!



Thats what I thought - just wanted to know if anyone has tasted the good Dr's version with GP.


----------



## Bribie G

When I finally get around to the TTL I'll be using Golden Promise, it's a low nitrogen barley from the Scottish Lowlands, would suggest the TF Floor malted variety, they are just down the road from Timothy Taylor and no doubt that's the one the brewery uses.


----------



## BoilerBoy

JonnyAnchovy said:


> Doing my spin on this next week, but thinking of using golden promise over marris otter. Anyone used GP in this recipe before? I've got both on hand, so I can use MO if it is hands-down better.



I've got a 100% TF GP bitter I'm drinking at the moment. with Fuggles, EKG & Styrian goldings.

This has been discussed many times about TTL, but I did one last year with Bairds GP and boiled down 10L of the 1st runnings into a syrup as an experiment because the Bairds GP was so insipid and lacking in colour and flavour, I then added it back and boiled as normal. It made a very nice beer with WY 1318 London ale 2, but was still very pale and lacking the malt flavour of a TTL.

This current batch with TF and West York ale yeast was done exactly the same way and the overall colour and malt flavour is much improved, but still nowhere near TTL.

As many have said before TTL maybe 100% GP but there's something else their not giving away.

Cheers,
BB


----------



## Bribie G

Dennis Wheeler in his real ale book suggests 4250g of base malt, but doc's Munich would take up any slack there. He also goes for a 90 min mash and 90 min boil, don't know if that would make a heck of a lot of difference although that's what I'll be doing with my version as I go 90 / 90 for everything nowadays.


----------



## warrenlw63

BoilerBoy said:


> As many have said before TTL maybe 100% GP but there's something else their not giving away.



BB I've always had a hunch that being a larger than normal brewery they probably have their GP kilned to a darker spec.

Warren -


----------



## Bribie G

warrenlw63 said:


> BB I've always had a hunch that being a larger than normal brewery they probably have their GP kilned to a darker spec.
> 
> Warren -



Could well be, Marstons Pedigree is supposedly 100% Maris Otter but a home brewer can't replicate anything like it without putting in some darker malts.


----------



## Ross

warrenlw63 said:


> BB I've always had a hunch that being a larger than normal brewery they probably have their GP kilned to a darker spec.
> 
> Warren -




Many brewery's have their malt kilned to their exact specs by the maltsters, so I'd agree with Warren that this is probably the case here.
Next trip to the UK I'll make a point of seeing if I can find out.

cheers Ross


----------



## BoilerBoy

warrenlw63 said:


> BB I've always had a hunch that being a larger than normal brewery they probably have their GP kilned to a darker spec.
> 
> Warren -



Yeah Warren I suspect so, particularly the amount of malt flavour from what is in the end only a 4.1% alc beer.

The only other possibility could be "Brewers caramel" which Graham wheeler implies in "BYO British Ale at Home" some British breweries use, though He suggests mainly for colour rather than any flavour contribution.

I'm going to try doing exactly the same method as what I've done previously except with some munich as Dr Smurto has done, probably Munich II for extra malt and colour and see what happens.

Cheers,
BB


----------



## warrenlw63

BribieG said:


> Could well be, Marstons Pedigree is supposedly 100% Maris Otter but a home brewer can't replicate anything like it without putting in some darker malts.



Bribie Pedigree also has a percentage of sugar. I'm only guessing but this is where the brewers in question probably fudge the facts a bit. I'm guessing it's not plain old white sugar. Maybe some brewer's caramel or coloured invert as well?

Ross let's hope they're forthcoming with the info. They always seem to be a rather secretive lot.

Warren -


----------



## Bribie G

Some darker beers like my beloved Camerons Strongarm are definitely coloured with caramel, according to a couple of UK forums I drop in on.


----------



## drsmurto

Looking forward to some more info Ross.

FWIW, am just finishing off the last of the TF FM MO batch with a touch of choc and ringwood. I think its one of murphys law that as the keg is about to blow, the beer peaks..... <_< 

Next batch will be caraaroma instead of choc (cheers Ross!) and back to 1469.

BB - keen to sample your TTL. Swap ya!


----------



## warrenlw63

BoilerBoy said:


> The only other possibility could be "Brewers caramel" which Graham wheeler implies in "BYO British Ale at Home" some British breweries use, though He suggests mainly for colour rather than any flavour contribution.



BB There's a manufacturer of this product who advertise freely on the web by the name of DD Williamson

They have agents all over the world. Maybe their Australian distributor might be able to unearth some?

IMCD Australia Limited
Block 6, 1B Unwin Street
Rosehill, NSW
Australia
www.imcdgroup.com

Name: Mr. Ewan C. Morrison
Phone: +61 29 897 6115
Fax: +61 29 897 6199


Also wouldn't Weyermann's "Sinmar" produce similar results?

Warren -


----------



## tazman1967

Im also brewing this tomorow, I was thinking the same as BB. Im going to use some Munich II as well.
Be interesting how it comes out ?
Cheers


----------



## BoilerBoy

warrenlw63 said:


> BB There's a manufacturer of this product who advertise freely on the web by the name of DD Williamson
> 
> They have agents all over the world. Maybe their Australian distributor might be able to unearth some?
> 
> IMCD Australia Limited
> Block 6, 1B Unwin Street
> Rosehill, NSW
> Australia
> www.imcdgroup.com
> 
> Name: Mr. Ewan C. Morrison
> Phone: +61 29 897 6115
> Fax: +61 29 897 6199
> 
> 
> Also wouldn't Weyermann's "Sinmar" produce similar results?
> 
> Warren -



Interesting info there, again judging by what they are saying its mainly used to regulate colour, though some flavour contribution is mentioed, but you get the impression its incidental.

"Sinmar" sounds interesting as well, I've never noticed it on their website before, but for the purposes of colouring it would do the job, I guess its trying to emulate the malt component that makes TTL such a "holy grail beer" I guess if Ross could possibly "ask them these questions three, then the otherside we may see'  

Cheers,
BB


----------



## BoilerBoy

tazman1967 said:


> Im also brewing this tomorow, I was thinking the same as BB. Im going to use some Munich II as well.
> Be interesting how it comes out ?
> Cheers



What % of Munich II would you be lloking at tazman1967 ?

BB


----------



## BoilerBoy

DrSmurto said:


> BB - keen to sample your TTL. Swap ya!



Its a deal!

Keen to sample anything you have :icon_drool2: 

I have some other beer to throw at you as well.

BB


----------



## Ross

Warren,

The paragraph below is interesting from that link, as TT state on their site that they add Isinglass finings & *priming sugars *to the cask "the traditional way to give zest & condition". This could well be where the colour & caramel flavour comes from.

*Specialty Brewing Syrup Specifications*
Brewing syrups are carbohydrate blends, usually glucose and sucrose, lightly boiled to contribute flavour and condition to finished beer. These burnt sugars range in fermentability from 60% to 92%. The syrups demonstrate an increase in sweetness with increasing fermentability. They can be used as kettle adjuncts where some residual sugars contribute mouthfeel and flavour after fermentation. Alternatively, if brewing syrups are added to traditional unfiltered beer at packaging, as primings they can contribute condition (sparkle) to the finished product. In the case of pasteurized beer, the whole character of the brewing syrup passes into the finished beer to contribute palette fullness and some sweetness, depending on the adjunct used. 

cheers Ross


----------



## tazman1967

BoilerBoy said:


> What % of Munich II would you be lloking at tazman1967 ?
> 
> BB



Just a straight swap. Munich II for Munich I. 
Cheers


----------



## newguy

Just brewed this yesterday but with some hop modifications since I didn't have those spec'd in the recipe. I brewed a double batch (~42l finished volume) and these were my hop additions:

24g magnum pellets (13.1%) 90 min
35g bramling cross pellets (8.6%) 20 min
25g bramling cross pellets (8.6%) flameout

It's smelling fantastic thus far. :beerbang:


----------



## drsmurto

newguy said:


> Just brewed this yesterday but with some hop modifications since I didn't have those spec'd in the recipe. I brewed a double batch (~42l finished volume) and these were my hop additions:
> 
> 24g magnum pellets (13.1%) 90 min
> 35g bramling cross pellets (8.6%) 20 min
> 25g bramling cross pellets (8.6%) flameout
> 
> It's smelling fantastic thus far. :beerbang:



Landlord cross Ruddles. How could that be anything other than a tasty beverage? :lol:


----------



## muckey

should be absolutely brillant. Love that brambling


----------



## gibbocore

Ross said:


> Warren,
> 
> The paragraph below is interesting from that link, as TT state on their site that they add Isinglass finings & *priming sugars *to the cask "the traditional way to give zest & condition". This could well be where the colour & caramel flavour comes from.
> 
> *Specialty Brewing Syrup Specifications*
> Brewing syrups are carbohydrate blends, usually glucose and sucrose, lightly boiled to contribute flavour and condition to finished beer. These burnt sugars range in fermentability from 60% to 92%. The syrups demonstrate an increase in sweetness with increasing fermentability. They can be used as kettle adjuncts where some residual sugars contribute mouthfeel and flavour after fermentation. Alternatively, if brewing syrups are added to traditional unfiltered beer at packaging, as primings they can contribute condition (sparkle) to the finished product. In the case of pasteurized beer, the whole character of the brewing syrup passes into the finished beer to contribute palette fullness and some sweetness, depending on the adjunct used.
> 
> cheers Ross




That's pretty interesting, how much and how dark do you think the syrup would have to be to contribute enough ebc's at priming levels to a 100%MO grainbill?


----------



## newguy

Kegged yesterday and force carbed today. Having my first sip now.....


:blink: :unsure: :wub: 


Now I'm trying to figure out how to have sex with it. :icon_drool2:


----------



## RdeVjun

DrSmurto said:


> Landlord cross Ruddles. How could that be anything other than a tasty beverage? :lol:


Well bugger me, that's sort of what I made last night. Partly by design, partly by accident (i.e. usual weekend lack of ingredients).



newguy said:


> Now I'm trying to figure out how to have sex with it. :icon_drool2:


newguy, glad you're happy with yours, when you do figure out how to shag it, let us know if its a real knee- trembler or just a dud root hey! :blink: Good luck trying...


----------



## Bribie G

I took a couple of liberties with the recipe and made a 'superlandlord' as I like my beers over 5% and used 5kg of GP as base malt as well as sneaking in some Munich 1, and added 300 of sugaz into the fermenter. Kept the hops the same. However on the caramel issue, I caramelised two litres of runnings down to 300ml and it's added a nice colour and maybe a bit of toffee. I also lightly caramelise the sugaz, to about golden syrup colour and it smells nice when I pour it in. Together with the Ringwood yeast and the 21 degree ferment I'm looking forward to a complex Best Bitter :icon_drool2:


----------



## Moray

would 1026 be an ok yeast to use with this? I also have 1275 and 1098 if they would be better


----------



## 3G

1026 will be fine, a clear beer in no time. Will be slightly less complex than 1469


----------



## RdeVjun

Moray said:


> would 1026 be an ok yeast to use with this? I also have 1275 and 1098 if they would be better


I've done a 2/3 partial following the good doctor's recipe except with 1275 and 1/3 pale malt extract, not too bad, somewhat neutral perhaps and I expected more from this yeast. Its still a terrific ale and is going very quickly... So if you can't decide with the other two, then 1275 should produce a half- decent attempt.

Have two other AG TTLs with 1768 underway, tasting promising at this stage, but that wasn't really your question...


----------



## drsmurto

newguy said:


> Kegged yesterday and force carbed today. Having my first sip now.....
> 
> 
> Now I'm trying to figure out how to have sex with it. :icon_drool2:



:lol: I prefer laying under the taps and pouring......




Moray said:


> would 1026 be an ok yeast to use with this? I also have 1275 and 1098 if they would be better



I've used both 1275 and 1098 in this recipe and found both a bit boring. 1469 and 1187 have been the best to date. Havent tried 1026 but have made a few nice beers with it so it will get a run one of these days.


----------



## scrumpy

is the 5 gm of choc malt added in with the rest of the grains at the start of the mash???


----------



## drsmurto

scrumpy said:


> is the 5 gm of choc malt added in with the rest of the grains at the start of the mash???



50g, not 5g and yes, in with the rest of the grains.


----------



## brendo

Hey DrSmurto,

I have been eyeing this bad boy off for a while now and am planning on brewing a double batch up with Supra-Jim as part of the Aust Biggest Brew Day.

Just wondering what if any water additions you are making with this recipe?

Planning on using 1469 - have it on the stir plate currently for a NE Brown that I brewed on Sunday, which I will then scavange yeast cake for TTL. :icon_drool2: 

Cheers,

Brendo


----------



## drsmurto

G'day Brendo

I havent added salts when brewing Landlord as i have always made it using good old Adelaide tap water.

I am brewing it again very soon and will need to modify my rainwater. Dont have beersmith at work so when i get home i will check out what i have been using for my english ales and get back to you.

At a guess, to get you thinking while you read this section in Palmer, i would probably add CaCl2 and CaCO3....

Cheers
DrSmurto


----------



## brendo

DrSmurto said:


> G'day Brendo
> 
> I havent added salts when brewing Landlord as i have always made it using good old Adelaide tap water.
> 
> I am brewing it again very soon and will need to modify my rainwater. Dont have beersmith at work so when i get home i will check out what i have been using for my english ales and get back to you.
> 
> At a guess, to get you thinking while you read this section in Palmer, i would probably add CaCl2 and CaCO3....
> 
> Cheers
> DrSmurto



Thanks Smurto...

Funnily enough I was reading Chapter 15 on the way into work this morning on the train :icon_cheers: 

Chalk and Calcium Chloride were where I was headed. Water treatment is pretty new to me, so figured I would put it out there to see what you use.

Numbers would be great if you get a chance - of course I will have to adjust for good ol' Melbourne Water B) 

Brendo


----------



## drsmurto

Ok, so i am using a profile named 'Malty' for my standard bitters.

Ca 90, SO4 30, Cl 50, CO3 70ppm

To achieve that I add CaCl2, CaSO4 and CaCO3.

The CaCl2 and CaSO4 go into a fermenter of water prior to brewday. I then add the CaCO3 to the mash tun (1/2 at dough in, 1/2 after first runnings drained). 

I assume my rainwater is a blank canvas. I measured it last year using an ICP-MS and the readings for the brewing ions were below the detection level of the instrument (0.1ppm) apart from Na which was 5 from memory. I believe there was a reading for Zn as well due to the iron roof but it was single digit as well. A lot of rain has fallen since then but i am happy enough to assume its still in the same ballpark. I drink it, unfiltered and it has no taste.


----------



## brendo

DrSmurto said:


> Ok, so i am using a profile named 'Malty' for my standard bitters.
> 
> Ca 90, SO4 30, Cl 50, CO3 70ppm
> 
> To achieve that I add CaCl2, CaSO4 and CaCO3.
> 
> The CaCl2 and CaSO4 go into a fermenter of water prior to brewday. I then add the CaCO3 to the mash tun (1/2 at dough in, 1/2 after first runnings drained).



Thanks Smurto... gives me a direction to run towards.

Cheers,

Brendo


----------



## JonnyAnchovy

For What it's worth, this is the new variation I'm trying on Sunday. Going to FWH 10g Styrian. The Pearle is just to get rid of the dregs from an old packet. Any comments before I dive in_?

_Hop additions have been increased due to oldish hops._

_Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 20.00 L 
Boil Size: 25.31 L
Estimated OG: 1.048 SG
Estimated Color: 10.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 36.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

_Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
0.20 kg Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 4.71 % 
2.00 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Thomas Fawcett) (3Grain 47.06 % 
1.50 kg Pale Malt, Golden Promise (Thomas Fawcett)Grain 35.29 % 
0.50 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (8.5 SRM) Grain 11.76 % 
0.05 kg Chocolate Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (508.0 SRMGrain 1.18 % 
14.00 gm Northern Brewer [9.60 %] (60 min) Hops 16.6 IBU 
5.00 gm Pearle [6.00 %] (60 min) Hops 3.7 IBU 
10.00 gm Styrian Goldings [3.84 %] (60 min) (FirstHops 5.2 IBU 
35.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.52 %] (20 min) Hops 10.9 IBU 
30.00 gm Styrian Goldings [3.80 %] (0 min) Hops - 
1 Pkgs Ringwood Ale (Wyeast Labs #1187) Yeast-Ale _


----------



## mark_m

I've been meaning to have a crack at this recipe for a while.
One possibly dumb question I need to ask - is the 0 minute hop addition flameout or dry hop?
Cheers,
Mark


----------



## drsmurto

Styrians are added at flame-out :icon_drool2:


----------



## Bizier

Hey Doc, you tried the caraaroma version yet?
I am keen to hear how this variation goes...


----------



## drsmurto

Not yet but i have 1469 on the stir plate for a bitter this weekend.

Will be making another Landlord with the yeastcake and will have a crack at the caraaroma version


----------



## buttersd70

DrSmurto said:


> Not yet but i have 1469 on the stir plate for a bitter this weekend.
> 
> Will be making another Landlord with the yeastcake and will have a crack at the caraaroma version



mmmmmmmmmm.... think we may need to chat about this one.... :icon_cheers: Caraaroma + styrian goodnes +1469 = Butters passed out on your front lawn :lol: .


----------



## jlm

Timely this thread has popped up again, brewing this over the weekend after being on the to brew list for a long, long time. Smacked my pack of 1469 this morning and saw it was dated Sep 08!!! It's probably been in my fridge the majority of that time.


----------



## 3G

Brewing one with simpsons marris otter, 3% cara aroma and 1469 as we type. Used Target for 60min addition. 30mins left in the boil.


----------



## drsmurto

3G said:


> Brewing one with simpsons marris otter, 3% cara aroma and 1469 as we type. Used Target for 60min addition. 30mins left in the boil.



Let me know how the simpsons MO goes. Using some of the medium crystal this weekend in a bitter.

Better yet, save me a bottle for the next AMB meet. :icon_drunk:


----------



## raven19

DrSmurto said:


> Let me know how the simpsons MO goes. Using some of the medium crystal this weekend in a bitter.
> 
> Better yet, save me a bottle for the next AMB meet. :icon_drunk:



Pretty sure we used it in my Case Swap American Brown Ale too Dr S.

It should be ready to drink now too...


----------



## kram

jlm said:


> Timely this thread has popped up again, brewing this over the weekend after being on the to brew list for a long, long time. Smacked my pack of 1469 this morning and saw it was dated Sep 08!!! It's probably been in my fridge the majority of that time.


I used mine two weeks ago for a mild and it started up fine, made a starter out of it and poured some into 6 vials for later use.


----------



## gibbocore

buttersd70 said:


> mmmmmmmmmm.... think we may need to chat about this one.... :icon_cheers: Caraaroma + styrian goodnes +1469 = Butters passed out on your front lawn :lol: .



I've just brewed a bitter with styrians and biscuit malt, must say, i'm extremely impressed.


----------



## 3G

raven19 said:


> Pretty sure we used it in my Case Swap American Brown Ale too Dr S.
> 
> It should be ready to drink now too...



Yep, sure did. It has a great malt/bread flavour to it.


----------



## np1962

3G said:


> Yep, sure did. It has a great malt/bread flavour to it.


Used Simpsons MO in latest version of my bitter, Bairds MO was in the first.
No real difference to my untrained palate.
Nige


----------



## JonnyAnchovy

JonnyAnchovy said:


> For What it's worth, this is the new variation I'm trying on Sunday. *post snipped*



missed my targets substantially (O'Henry was there to witness my catastrophic laurtering failures), but bottled and sampled (around 1L!) last night. VERY happy so far, being slightly under gravity was balanced by my mash regeme being slightly hotter than intended - nice body, great hop flavor and aroma, bitterness spot on.

This one is on the list to repeat once I finally put my laughtering issues to bed.


----------



## hazard

I've made 2 lots of landlord now, the first was partial mash and extract but the second was AG. I have been really enjoying the AG brew, albeit with 2 small changes to Smurto's recipe:
- I added Styrian hops and EKG as FWH rather than as late hops
- I deleted the small amount of chocolate malt, and reduced 1L of first runnings in a pan before adding to kettle to get the caramel effect.

This has been one of my best ales to date, and my mates like it as well. 

AND THEN

Purvis Celalrs got the original TTL in stock last week. I bought a slab to test against my brew. And - the TTL blew mine away!! 

The TTL had much more depth to the late hop flavour - mine tasted the same except it appeard dilute in comparison. Also, the TTL had a distinct caramel undertone. Although i reduced the wort, I didn't achieve this - there was another thread about this recently that concluded that reducing the wort in a pan may result in melanoiden production, but doesn't really caramelise the maltose. My taste test backs this up. And, the TTL was darker - something I didn't expect.

So well done Timothy Taylor - this is a highly impressive beer. But, if TTL is 100% golden promise, where does the caramel flavour come from? Why is it darker than mine, which includes munich malt (0.5kg) and reduced wort? Does Timmy do a real long boil on the whole kettle? Or are they actually adding some crystal to the kettle? Regardless, it's brilliant, try some if you can.

Note - this is NOT a criticism of Smurto's recipe. As stated above I was very happy weith outcomes, and many others have confirmed this. I'm sure any failings in my brew are due to my own brewing technique (this is my 3rd AG) and there are lots of other variables involved that will make a difference. But I do want to experiment with wort reduction (maybe do 4 L rather than 1 L ) and ULH to get that depth of hops flavour and caramelly taste that TTL exhibits.


----------



## felten

If you read earlier in the thread(iirc) there's mention that they darken with brewers caramel, which is common for english beers. that or they kiln their golden promise to a higher degree.

anyway, TTL has won a zillion awards since its inception, so they must be doing something right

i'm planning this as my first AG brew, as soon as my falsie/malt arrives, should be a cracker. i'm originally from england but i've never actually had an english beer :X


----------



## drsmurto

Constructive criticisms are always welcome Hazard!

Agree, TTL is an amazing beer, very malty with that caramel/toffee note to it as well as the subtle styrian aroma. And yet, it finishes dry. Its my holy grail and one i enjoy repeating even if i am still a way off.

The addition of a handpump (fingers crossed) to my bar in late October reminds me i need to get another batch on soon.....

Next step is to boil down some 1st runnings, add some caraaroma instead of choc and make some slight adjustments to the hopping (ie. wind the late hopping back). 

Lots of musings about TTL, what it's _apparently_ made with. I suspect that no-one here actually knows but its fun speculating nonetheless. 

FWIW, my vote is for 100% GP with a portion of that turned into a crystal malt to get the colour/flavour. Either that or they get the GP kilned to a near Vienna malt spec....... h34r:


----------



## buttersd70

DrSmurto said:


> FWIW, my vote is for 100% GP with a portion of that turned into a crystal malt to get the colour/flavour. Either that or they get the GP kilned to a near Vienna malt spec....... h34r:



I thought I saw your brain ticking over the other night...  

Are you going to try it with the softer water?


----------



## muckey

probably trying to work out how to get away from butters.

back to topic, rather that using a proportion of the malt to make their own crystal couldn't they just be decocting it or using some type of heating method that does caramalise a proportion of the mash?


----------



## Scruffy

*It's deffo Golden Promise*. Just not sure about their *secret kilning or boiling processes* - I've enjoyed a few attempts as it rarely produces a naff beer. I'll return to attempting to nail Landlord soon, but have a Nelson Sauvin/Amarillo/Cascade itch to scratch...


----------



## drsmurto

buttersd70 said:


> I thought I saw your brain ticking over the other night...
> 
> Are you going to try it with the softer water?



The vienna comment comes from one of several musings with Voosher back in the Grumpys days when i drove past the place to and from work every day. Had to drop in for a pint, be rude not to. 

Amongst the myriad of theories we came up with was the tongue in cheek comment from Voosher that i sub the darker kilned Munich malt in to get more oomph so why not try straight Vienna. 

We may or may not have been sampling purified 'water' at the time........

Never got around to trying it out but its still on my to do list. 

As for the water, the bitter i made on the weekend had a very small amount of CaCO3 added but will use straight rainwater on the next batch (with maybe a bit of CaCl2 - am a bit wary about brewing with 0 ppm of Ca)


----------



## jbirbeck

Muckey said:


> probably trying to work out how to get away from butters.
> 
> back to topic, rather that using a proportion of the malt to make their own crystal couldn't they just be decocting it or using some type of heating method that does caramalise a proportion of the mash?



I tried a decoction with my latest bitter and it hasn't added noticeable colour or any hint of caramelly flavours. Perhaps I didn't boil it enough...


----------



## Scruffy

Water quality report - Keighley 2009
Substance	Typical value	UK/European limit	Unit
Calcium	18.2750	-	mg Ca/l
Magnesium	1.7800	-	mg Mg/l
Residual chlorine - free	0.19	-	mg/l Cl2
Residual chlorine - total	0.24	-	mg/l Cl2
Coliforms	0	0	no/100ml
E-coli	0	0	no/100ml
Aluminium	18.231	200	g Al/l
Colour	1.33	20	mg/l Pt/Co Scale
Conductivity	139.10	2500	S/cm
Fluoride	0.054	1.5	mg F/l
pH (Hydrogen Ion Conc.)	7.90	6.5 - 10.0	pH Units
Iron	28.63	200	g Fe/l
Manganese	2.31	50	g Mn/l
Nitrate	2.4843	50	mg NO3/l
Nitrite	0.0093	0.5	mg NO2/l
Sodium	8.80	200	mg Na/l
Turbidity	0.145	4	NTU
Copper	0.0149	2	mg Cu/l
Lead	8.101	25	g Pb/l

Report last updated: 16/04/2009 16:06:44

HTH.


----------



## Scruffy

Soft innit?- i can see how it would suit a pale...


----------



## drsmurto

It is soft and i have had discussions with Butters and a few others about the type of water used in some breweries in yorkshire.

Bribie has a water report that also shows how soft the water used by 1 specific brewery. 

It does get you thinking though, if the water used in brewing is that soft what, if any, modifications are they doing to it. 

Will just have to bite the bullet and use rainwater without any mods.


----------



## warra48

Any chance of someone interpreting that water analysis into something resembling the BeerSmith format?
I'm no scientist, and plead ignorance on chemistry.
My working life was spent in insurance and law.


----------



## drsmurto

That water report only contains the Ca and Mg figures, the others important to brewing are missing.

The Ca and Mg numbers match the ones i received, i'll leave it up to the owners to cough them up if they want to.

But, the key message is that the profile is much MUCH softer than the published yorkshire profiles, closer to a Pilsen profile...... Melbourne water is pretty close to these figures (from the data i have seen).


----------



## Scruffy

So they take soft water, filter it then add stuff?


----------



## michaelcocks

RecipeDB said:


> This is the discussion topic for the recipe: DrSmurto's Landlord



Hi Dr Smurto

Re th TTL recip...

Any chance of a recipe for us poor extract brewers (or I can do partial if I find time !!!) ?

I tried using beersmith and Ken Schwartz document covert_mash_to _extract - But got terribly confused.

Can you get MO or GP in an extract can (or dried?) Or should I just use a Coopers Pale and Partial Mash the other half of the BAse Malt with MO or GP?

BTW I just did the extract version of the Dr Smurton Golden Ale - OMG that is just the best...

Many Thanks

Michael


----------



## buttersd70

Michael.
The Schwarz article is excellent, but t can be a bit confusing...

Couple of bits of info needed: What will your (maximum) boil size be; and, if you do a partial, what is the maximum weight of grain you are capable of _comfortably_ mashing?


----------



## michaelcocks

buttersd70 said:


> Michael.
> The Schwarz article is excellent, but t can be a bit confusing...
> 
> Couple of bits of info needed: What will your (maximum) boil size be; and, if you do a partial, what is the maximum weight of grain you are capable of _comfortably_ mashing?



I have 19l pot ( only really fits 16-17l usable)
Could handle about 3-4KG of grain.
Have esky (25L

Cheers

Michael


----------



## buttersd70

michaelcocks said:


> I have 19l pot ( only really fits 16-17l usable)
> Could handle about 3-4KG of grain.
> Have esky (25L
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Michael



Should be easy then. (edit: for a partial. A bit hard for full extract, as 99% of the malt flavour is base grain.)....here you go.


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 20.00 L 
Boil Size: 13.46 L
Estimated OG: 1.046 SG
Estimated Color: 19.8 EBC
Estimated IBU: 33.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
1.50 kg LME, post bol (6.9 EBC) Extract 42.3 % 
1.50 kg Pale Malt, Golden Promise (Thomas FaGrain 42.3 % 
0.50 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 14.1 % 
0.05 kg Chocolate Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (100Grain 1.4 % 
40.00 gm Fuggles [3.90%] (60 min) Hops 20.8 IBU 
30.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.10%] (20 minHops 12.3 IBU 
28.00 gm Styrian Goldings [4.60%] (0 min) Hops - 


Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 2.05 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time 
Sach rest Add 5.00 L of water at 73.7 C 65.0 C 40 min 
Mash out Add 5.00 L of water at 94.1 C 78.0 C 40 min 


Notes:
------
AG BG 1034, volumes: 25.88 boil /20L batch, 32.9 IBU, 1045 OG
PM BG 1034, volumes: 13.46 boil /20L batch, 33.1 IBU 1046 OG

Should require 10L topup to achieve 20L. Have not accounted for any kettle losses, other than 

evaporation and cooling. 

IBU dependent on actual hop alpha. If need to adjust for hop alpha, leave the weights for the later 

additions alone; only adjust the 60min weight until IBU matches.

Have subbed TF Golden promise for marris otter; if using MO, just use the same weight....personally, I 

think the GP would give the better result. 2c.


heres the BSM (if you use beersmith, or for others that want it):
View attachment michaelcocks_ttl.bsm


----------



## michaelcocks

buttersd70 said:


> Should be easy then. (edit: for a partial. A bit hard for full extract, as 99% of the malt flavour is base grain.)....here you go.
> 
> 
> Recipe Specifications
> --------------------------
> Batch Size: 20.00 L
> Boil Size: 13.46 L
> Estimated OG: 1.046 SG
> Estimated Color: 19.8 EBC
> Estimated IBU: 33.1 IBU
> Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 %
> Boil Time: 90 Minutes
> 
> Ingredients:
> ------------
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 1.50 kg LME, post bol (6.9 EBC) Extract 42.3 %
> 1.50 kg Pale Malt, Golden Promise (Thomas FaGrain 42.3 %
> 0.50 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 14.1 %
> 0.05 kg Chocolate Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (100Grain 1.4 %
> 40.00 gm Fuggles [3.90%] (60 min) Hops 20.8 IBU
> 30.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.10%] (20 minHops 12.3 IBU
> 28.00 gm Styrian Goldings [4.60%] (0 min) Hops -
> 
> 
> Mash Schedule: My Mash
> Total Grain Weight: 2.05 kg
> ----------------------------
> Name Description Step Temp Step Time
> Sach rest Add 5.00 L of water at 73.7 C 65.0 C 40 min
> Mash out Add 5.00 L of water at 94.1 C 78.0 C  40 min
> 
> 
> Notes:
> ------
> AG BG 1034, volumes: 25.88 boil /20L batch, 32.9 IBU, 1045 OG
> PM BG 1034, volumes: 13.46 boil /20L batch, 33.1 IBU 1046 OG
> 
> Should require 10L topup to achieve 20L. Have not accounted for any kettle losses, other than
> 
> evaporation and cooling.
> 
> IBU dependent on actual hop alpha. If need to adjust for hop alpha, leave the weights for the later
> 
> additions alone; only adjust the 60min weight until IBU matches.
> 
> Have subbed TF Golden promise for marris otter; if using MO, just use the same weight....personally, I
> 
> think the GP would give the better result. 2c.
> 
> 
> heres the BSM (if you use beersmith, or for others that want it):
> View attachment 29952



Thanks Heaps Butters ...


----------



## buttersd70

michaelcocks said:


> Thanks Heaps Butters ...


No worries, mate. Just don't forget to change the AA to whatever your current batch of hops are, then adjust the 60min addition to give the right IBU.  

I went with no kettle losses, cos most many partial brewers are 'tip the lot in' types....if you whirlpool and syphon, leaving the trub behind, you'll need to make adjustments for loss to trub in your volumes. (some AG brewers are dirty 'tip the lot in' types too. h34r: ).


----------



## michaelcocks

buttersd70 said:


> No worries, mate. Just don't forget to change the AA to whatever your current batch of hops are, then adjust the 60min addition to give the right IBU.
> 
> I went with no kettle losses, cos most many partial brewers are 'tip the lot in' types....if you whirlpool and syphon, leaving the trub behind, you'll need to make adjustments for loss to trub in your volumes. (some AG brewers are dirty 'tip the lot in' types too. h34r: ).



Hi Butters

Could I use a pre-bittered LME (like a Coopers Pale Ale) instead of bittering with hops + 60 min boil?

Also assume some English yeast (SO4 OK??)

Thanks

Mike


----------



## buttersd70

michaelcocks said:


> Hi Butters
> 
> Could I use a pre-bittered LME (like a Coopers Pale Ale) instead of bittering with hops + 60 min boil?
> 
> Also assume some English yeast (SO4 OK??)
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Mike


Mike,
you could, I suppose, use hopped extract, but you would need to pick one to give the correct IBU for the volume; and thats pretty hit and miss. Also, it would have flavour (iso)hop which would probably clash flavour wise, so you'd need to boil the tin to drive off this flavour, and that would throw your boil gravities out. I'd recommend pretty strongly against it. You're gong to need to do a minimum 60minute boil, anyway, for the mash portion, so may as well use the good stuff for the bittering addition.  

Using yeast, wy1469 (west yorkshire) would be the best; although you won't be able to buy this, as it was a seasonal release. There is a proculture yeast available that is said to be the equivilent of it, gryphon brewing in WA sells them. Alternate liquid yeast would be wyeast ringwood, which is readily available from sponsors/good lhbs.

You _could _use dry yeast; I wouldn't use so4 myself (hate the stuff, 2c), or you could use Danstar Nottingham. Notto would probably do a good job, but it won't (imo) be as good as using a liquid yeast, which will have much more character and a better ester profile than dry.


----------



## michaelcocks

buttersd70 said:


> Mike,
> you could, I suppose, use hopped extract, but you would need to pick one to give the correct IBU for the volume; and thats pretty hit and miss. Also, it would have flavour (iso)hop which would probably clash flavour wise, so you'd need to boil the tin to drive off this flavour, and that would throw your boil gravities out. I'd recommend pretty strongly against it. You're gong to need to do a minimum 60minute boil, anyway, for the mash portion, so may as well use the good stuff for the bittering addition.
> 
> Using yeast, wy1469 (west yorkshire) would be the best; although you won't be able to buy this, as it was a seasonal release. There is a proculture yeast available that is said to be the equivilent of it, gryphon brewing in WA sells them. Alternate liquid yeast would be wyeast ringwood, which is readily available from sponsors/good lhbs.
> 
> You _could _use dry yeast; I wouldn't use so4 myself (hate the stuff, 2c), or you could use Danstar Nottingham. Notto would probably do a good job, but it won't (imo) be as good as using a liquid yeast, which will have much more character and a better ester profile than dry.




OK no worries re the unhopped LME...point taken.
Would Muntold Gold (dried yeast be a better choice) I know tis isn't ideal but better than S04 (which I actually quite like, as a good all rounder..)
Any idea where I could get Danstar Nottingham in Sydney (I tried daves, pats and collin's webpages...LHBS guys...)
Cheers

Michael


----------



## buttersd70

Can't comment on muntons gold, don't think I've ever used it. No idea about shopping in sydney. As I said, the liquids are _far _superior...but if you've used so4 before, and you like it, and you want to use dry; then go with that. (so4 seems to me to be very much one of those love it or hate it yeasts).


----------



## buttersd70

Just back onto the topic of water: I was going to post, but forgot.  I got cider-tracked.....

slight geography lesson for those that are unfamiliar with the region:





Now, Taylors is based in Keighley. They have their own spring, and use the water from that. Now, I've had trouble finding details on the groundwater, as opposed to the mains water, but in that part of Yorkshire, it's mainly sandstone and millstone. In the centre there are coal seams, and in the East, it's mainly limestone...
Yorkshire water states that the water in the east (what used to be East Riding), is the hardest; and that the softest water comes from the moor districts (which is West Riding, and the western part of the North Riding).
In any event, given the excellent quality of the water from ground and reservoir (given the geology), I would assume that the mains water available (particularly in the west riding) has sfa done to it, and wouldn't be massively different to what is available from the water table anyway...and that the main changes would probably be for quality control and cosistency.....this is, though, an _assumption_. I'm no chemist or geologist by any stretch of the imagination....
However, one thing that makes me think this may well be the case: Bribie emailed a brewer just outside Hebdon Bridge, and this is what he got:



> We use water from the mains (although we have a well on site). I have only average samples from lastt year
> 
> Dissolved Sulphate 34.8 mg/l SO4
> Magnesium 2 mg/l Mg
> Sodium 8.6 mg/l Na
> Potassium 0.8 mg/l K
> Calcium 19 mg/l Ca
> Choride 11 mg/l Cl
> Hardness total 24.4 mg/l Ca
> Alkalinity tot. pH4.5 10.98 mg/l HCO



Interesting that, even though they have a well on site, they use mains water. 

Obviously, having their own source of spring water, the TTL will be brewed with a different breakdown; but I wouldn't have thought it would be massively different....and given that the brewery has been in operation since the mid 19th century, I doubt that they would have made any adjustments to the water (at least, not back then, anyway. Brewers in those days made beer to suit the water, as opposed to changing the water to suit the beer).

I'm not saying that this is the kind of water that is needed to brew good Bitters, or even to clone TTL....just passing on some info I have, and some observations (from a laymans perspective), that I've made....

Minor anecdote: My grandparents worked at Websters brewery in Halifax, back in it's heyday. My gran was a cleaner there, and she used to bitch at how she had to use twice as much soap powder at home than she had to use at the brewery, to get the same lather. At this point, they'd moved across town (they used to live near the brewery), to a part of town that (even today, looking at the Yorkshire Water reports for the area) comes from distribution station that has the hardest water in a 20 mile radius (which is still only 'moderate').


----------



## BjornJ

buttersd70 said:


> Can't comment on muntons gold, don't think I've ever used it. No idea about shopping in sydney. As I said, the liquids are _far _superior...but if you've used so4 before, and you like it, and you want to use dry; then go with that. (so4 seems to me to be very much one of those love it or hate it yeasts).




I have a beer in the fermenter now, by first ever try with liquid yeast, an English Ale Yeast WLP002.
I wanted to try this to have a go at liquid yeast and it came advertised as ultra flocculent, sounds good.

But is there really a lot of difference between dry and liquid yeasts, say between a US-05 and WLP001?
I have read that these are both "neutral, all around" yeasts and there is a price difference of about $10..


thanks
Bjorn


----------



## JonnyAnchovy

BjornJ said:


> I have read that these are both "neutral, all around" yeasts and there is a price difference of about $10..



This is precisely why I tend to use dried yeasts for hoppy beers where yeast esters are less important to the final flavor profile. I use liquid yeasts for pretty much everything else.


----------



## gap

Just adding to that post of Butters showing the map supplied by Yorkshire Water.
Their website also states that water may be pumped from one part of Yorkshire to another depending on supply and demand. 
So the water specs may vary for a location depending on where it is receiving its water at that particular time.
West Riding water may be pumped to East Riding etc. 

Regards

Graeme


----------



## michaelcocks

buttersd70 said:


> Should be easy then. (edit: for a partial. A bit hard for full extract, as 99% of the malt flavour is base grain.)....here you go.
> 
> 
> Recipe Specifications
> --------------------------
> Batch Size: 20.00 L
> Boil Size: 13.46 L
> Estimated OG: 1.046 SG
> Estimated Color: 19.8 EBC
> Estimated IBU: 33.1 IBU
> Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 %
> Boil Time: 90 Minutes
> 
> Ingredients:
> ------------
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 1.50 kg LME, post bol (6.9 EBC) Extract 42.3 %
> 1.50 kg Pale Malt, Golden Promise (Thomas FaGrain 42.3 %
> 0.50 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 14.1 %
> 0.05 kg Chocolate Malt (Thomas Fawcett) (100Grain 1.4 %
> 40.00 gm Fuggles [3.90%] (60 min) Hops 20.8 IBU
> 30.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.10%] (20 minHops 12.3 IBU
> 28.00 gm Styrian Goldings [4.60%] (0 min) Hops -
> 
> 
> Mash Schedule: My Mash
> Total Grain Weight: 2.05 kg
> ----------------------------
> Name Description Step Temp Step Time
> Sach rest Add 5.00 L of water at 73.7 C 65.0 C 40 min
> Mash out Add 5.00 L of water at 94.1 C 78.0 C 40 min
> 
> 
> Notes:
> ------
> AG BG 1034, volumes: 25.88 boil /20L batch, 32.9 IBU, 1045 OG
> PM BG 1034, volumes: 13.46 boil /20L batch, 33.1 IBU 1046 OG
> 
> Should require 10L topup to achieve 20L. Have not accounted for any kettle losses, other than
> 
> evaporation and cooling.
> 
> IBU dependent on actual hop alpha. If need to adjust for hop alpha, leave the weights for the later
> 
> additions alone; only adjust the 60min weight until IBU matches.
> 
> Have subbed TF Golden promise for marris otter; if using MO, just use the same weight....personally, I
> 
> think the GP would give the better result. 2c.
> 
> 
> heres the BSM (if you use beersmith, or for others that want it):
> View attachment 29952




Did this one at the weekend ...

Mash temp came out a bit high (69C) I was already at 3:1 water to grain so reluctant to add much more cold water. Second step cam out a bit low (72C) 

Into cube (no chill method) 

Will let you know how it goes when in fermenter... Thanks Again 

Mike


----------



## Effect

DrSmurto said:


> Styrians are added at flame-out :icon_drool2:




I am thinking of doing this beer again, but as I no chill I didn't want to add the styrians at flame-out as this would have probably no affect at all.

Would it be ok to dry hop it with the styrian instead?

Cheers
Phil


----------



## drsmurto

Phillip said:


> I am thinking of doing this beer again, but as I no chill I didn't want to add the styrians at flame-out as this would have probably no affect at all.
> 
> Would it be ok to dry hop it with the styrian instead?
> 
> Cheers
> Phil



A plug if styrians in a keg is :icon_drool2: 

Whilst i dont normally dry hop my landlord i have once and it was a nice variation, way too much aroma for TTL but still a damn fine bitter IMHO.


----------



## Supra-Jim

Poured my first pint of this fine recipe from the keg last night. Damn it was a good beer. Well done Smurto and thanks for sharing.

Cheers SJ


----------



## Bribie G

In my 'superlandlord' versions I no chill and add the Styrians for 10 or 15 mins and find the hop aroma still comes through. As the Dr said in a post somewhere you can hold a pint at arms length and still get the Styrians.


----------



## Scruffy

DrSmurto said:


> Whilst i dont normally dry hop my landlord ...way too much aroma for TTL but still a damn fine bitter IMHO.



Wow, I always remember the draught being really perfumed (too perfumed for some of my southern mates, even...).

Any road up, someone mentioned Yeast, 

This came to mind...

WLP037 Yorkshire Ale Yeast 

This yeast produces a beer that is malty, but well-balanced. Expect flavours that are toasty with malt-driven esters. Highly flocculent and good choice for English pale ales, English brown ales, and mild ales. 

Attenuation: 68-72% 
Flocculation: High 
Optimum Fermentation Temp: 65-70F 
Alcohol Tolerance: Med-High 

I think it's Sam Smiths?

I see you've pitched! - I (re)use 1968 quite a lot, (it's the same as WLP002 - Fullers). It finishes quite Malty and Sweet, prolly too malty for a TTL (maybe not...)

Let us know how it goes!!

edited cause I realised the yeast is in the fermenter...!


----------



## drsmurto

BribieG said:


> As the Dr said in a post somewhere you can hold a pint at arms length and still get the Styrians.



Or, you can walk into the bar and smell the styrians from 5m away and realise that the o ring on the beer out post is rooted and see pints of your beautiful beer on the floor...... :lol: 

Had a few of the locals sample my current version last night which has been bottled for the xmas case swap.

Used caraaroma instead of pale choc as suggested by Ross.
TF FM MO instead of Bairds and no munich.

Upped the styrians to ~2g/L at flameout :icon_drool2: 

Happy with how it has turned out, colour is lighter which is probably closer to the real deal. 

And just cos i wanted to show off this pic (again) here it is served in a standard pommy pint glass.


----------



## raven19

Looks delicious mate.

Look forward to sampling it in a few weeks at the swap!


----------



## muckey

DrSmurto said:


> Or, you can walk into the bar and smell the styrians from 5m away and realise that the o ring on the beer out post is rooted and see pints of your beautiful beer on the floor...... :lol:
> 
> Had a few of the locals sample my current version last night which has been bottled for the xmas case swap.
> 
> Used caraaroma instead of pale choc as suggested by Ross.
> TF FM MO instead of Bairds and no munich.
> 
> Upped the styrians to ~2g/L at flameout :icon_drool2:
> 
> Happy with how it has turned out, colour is lighter which is probably closer to the real deal.
> 
> And just cos i wanted to show off this pic (again) here it is served in a standard pommy pint glass.



luvverly drop I must admit.

you need a butters vacuum cleaner to mop up your spills :lol:


----------



## RdeVjun

DrSmurto said:


> Used caraaroma instead of pale choc as suggested by Ross.
> TF FM MO instead of Bairds and no munich.
> 
> Upped the styrians to ~2g/L at flameout :icon_drool2:


Very interesting, have done something similar myself of late, although still with GP. That was after I spent months of fartarsing around with 100% GP, occasional decocting and regular caramelising, dropped the munich yonks ago, recently added a touch of caraaroma and have been upping the late hops. Can't say I've found the holy grail, but man, it must be somewhere nearby! 

Many thanks Dr S for stumping up a recipe to which I have responded rather ungratefully by just flogging it mercilessly to within an inch of its life! :icon_cheers:


----------



## raven19

Making a Smurto's LL tomorrow arvo as long as I can get outta work at a reasonable time!

Tempted to push the bitterness higher though!!!!

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: 15 Smurto's Landlord
Brewer: Brad
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Special/Best/Premium Bitter
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (0.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 25.00 L 
Boil Size: 33.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.041 SG
Estimated Color: 15.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 37.7 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4.37 kg Pale Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 86.42 % 
0.63 kg Munich (9.0 SRM) Grain 12.35 % 
0.06 kg Choc Malt (1200.0 SRM) Grain 1.23 % 
18.00 gm Chinese Marco Polo [12.00 %] (60 min) Hops 22.8 IBU 
35.00 gm East Kent Goldings [4.80 %] (25 min) Hops 12.3 IBU 
25.00 gm Styrian Goldings [4.80 %] (5 min) Hops 2.5 IBU 
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs 1187 (Wyeast) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: *** Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 5.06 kg
----------------------------
*** Single Infusion, Medium Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
90 min Mash In Add 13.19 L of water at 71.2 C 65.0 C 
10 min Mash Out Add 7.39 L of water at 97.1 C 75.6 C 


Notes:
------
Mash 65


----------



## RdeVjun

raven19 said:


> Tempted to push the bitterness higher though!!!!
> 
> Estimated OG: 1.041 SG
> Estimated IBU: 37.7 IBU
> 
> 18.00 gm Chinese Marco Polo [12.00 %] (60 min) Hops 22.8 IBU
> 35.00 gm East Kent Goldings [4.80 %] (25 min) Hops 12.3 IBU
> 25.00 gm Styrian Goldings [4.80 %] (5 min) Hops 2.5 IBU
> 
> Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %


 The lure of these strong new MP hops, eh?! I wouldn't increase the bitterness mate, IMO your BU:GU could be getting wonky already at 0.9, I'd be aiming for around 0.6- 0.7 with more late styrian (like the good doctor says!), the proportions are about right though- 2:1 bittering to aroma is my ideal combo.

Long low mash is good, with that in mind are you sure your efficiency isn't slightly better? Just wonderin'...

:icon_cheers:

Edit: Doh: 2g/L stryian already. Sorry, not quite enough coffee consumed this AM...


----------



## raven19

RdeVjun said:


> The lure of these strong new MP hops, eh?! I wouldn't increase the bitterness mate, IMO your BU:GU could be getting wonky already at 0.9, I'd be aiming for around 0.6- 0.7 with more late styrian (like the good doctor says!), the proportions are about right though- 2:1 bittering to aroma is my ideal combo.
> 
> Long low mash is good, with that in mind are you sure your efficiency isn't slightly better? Just wonderin'...
> 
> :icon_cheers:



Yeah fair points there RdeVjun.

After chatting with 3G, I was more aiming for the upper limits of the 'circa ESB' style in Beersmith. Not that style or guidelines are my measuring stick... 

My efficiency should improve to 73 or 74 tops, but I usually program it low just incase. Any extra sugars are a bonus and more into the cube with simply the increase of sparge water.

I have an APA with some good bitterness in the fermentor atm, so maybe I will go a little lower on the bitterness on this version.

(Edit: looking to get a mix of summer beers into the keg fridge - hence variety of bitterness beers... but I am on a bitter binge atm too!)

Cheers for your thoughts on this one!


----------



## chappo1970

Wow must have the touch today very fortunate that this thread appeared. Well after an extended hiatis from brewing and a absolutely nothing left in the keg fridges I have decided to get back on the saddle with a DrS TTL. What do the experts reckon my chances are of having it on tap for Christams Day?


----------



## drsmurto

Raven - if you haven't already brewed this i strongly recommend changing to the latest version which coincidentally you have a bottle of as its my case swap beer.

97% ale
3% caraaroma

And unless you increase the OG i wouldnt push the IBU any higher. In fact, i would go a fraction lower, maybe 33.



Chappo, if you use the west yorky yeast there is no worries about getting it on tap in less than a week!


----------



## Supra-Jim

No harm in trying, but with 11 days, i reckon you'll be pushing it. Will be quite green on Chrissy day. My suggestion it to do it any way, and just in case whack down a wheat beer. 

Worst case, you'll have the wheat to drink on the day (nice, esp if it's hot) and if you're lucky you'll have two beers to drink.

Cheers SJ


----------



## raven19

DrSmurto said:


> Raven - if you haven't already brewed this i strongly recommend changing to the latest version which coincidentally you have a bottle of as its my case swap beer.
> 
> 97% ale
> 3% caraaroma
> 
> And unless you increase the OG i wouldnt push the IBU any higher. In fact, i would go a fraction lower, maybe 33.



Will change it mate, cheers!

Only have the mash water on the timer at home. Plan is to knock off around 3.30, home to crush grain, and mash in by 4.30. Gotta love daylight savings!!!  

(Rotten work getting in the way as per normal!)


----------



## chappo1970

DrSmurto said:


> Raven - if you haven't already brewed this i strongly recommend changing to the latest version which coincidentally you have a bottle of as its my case swap beer.
> 
> 97% ale
> 3% caraaroma
> 
> And unless you increase the OG i wouldnt push the IBU any higher. In fact, i would go a fraction lower, maybe 33.
> 
> 
> 
> Chappo, if you use the west yorky yeast there is no worries about getting it on tap in less than a week!



Ok well looks like I better stock up on some of that luverly 1469 that Ross has. Cheers DrS!




Supra-Jim said:


> No harm in trying, but with 11 days, i reckon you'll be pushing it. Will be quite green on Chrissy day. My suggestion it to do it any way, and just in case whack down a wheat beer.
> 
> Worst case, you'll have the wheat to drink on the day (nice, esp if it's hot) and if you're lucky you'll have two beers to drink.
> 
> Cheers SJ



Good thinking 99. A wheatie would be perfect. I was thinking an APA but it would be way, way too green for xmas. Mind you I'll take a green home brew over a commercial any day of the week.

Geezus I wish my Mojo kicked in last week now!


----------



## RdeVjun

Chappo said:


> Wow must have the touch today very fortunate that this thread appeared. Well after an extended hiatis from brewing and a absolutely nothing left in the keg fridges I have decided to get back on the saddle with a DrS TTL. What do the experts reckon my chances are of having it on tap for Christams Day?


Pretty good Chappo, like Dr S says, even a week, although that's probably pushing it for me but you have more than a week to the big day. Its quite OK with malts like GP and MO, but with BB Ale it can be a bit doughy/bready when young, at least that's been my experience.

Single decoction and caramelising wort are both interesting twists, I do both these days and am quite pleased with the results from 100% base malt, but the caraaroma version is an excellent alternative.

Late mail: Don't think Ross, or any other HBS has 1469 mate, its one of the PC stable. PM me.

Edit: Proculture Wood Ale is probably a good alternative, a West Yorkshire knockoff perhaps.


----------



## Gavo

Chap CHap if your'e after some 1469 I have some fresh slurry just harveted yesterday and could send it to you, PM me if interested. This stuff is a monster and will chew those shugaz up really quickly.

Cheers
Gavo.


----------



## chappo1970

RdeVjun said:


> Pretty good Chappo, like Dr S says, even a week, although that's probably pushing it for me but you have more than a week to the big day. Its quite OK with malts like GP and MO, but with BB Ale it can be a bit doughy/bready when young, at least that's been my experience.
> 
> Single decoction and caramelising wort are both interesting twists, I do both these days and am quite pleased with the results from 100% base malt, but the caraaroma version is an excellent alternative.
> 
> Late mail: Don't think Ross, or any other HBS has 1469 mate, its one of the PC stable. PM me.
> 
> Edit: Proculture Wood Ale is probably a good alternative, a West Yorkshire knockoff perhaps.



Thanks RdeVjun. I'll email you some questions in regards to the above Mate. To be honest I am starting to shy away from American styled hop head beers as of late. Plus the Cascade, Chinook, Centennial etc hopped beers have started to blend into one another. I still like them don't get me wrong but the Pommy beers are much more sessionable IMHO. Plus the milds gives me more staying power. :lol:


----------



## brettprevans

cheapest ive seen TTL was at firstchoice on the weeken $7.50 for 500ml bottle.

this is on my brew list once im back in action.


----------



## Bribie G

Chappo that bottle I gave you yesterday is 1469 in the guise of Proculture Wood Ale h34r: 
Maybe you could culture it up as an insurance policy but Gavo's slurry offer sounds the go. Gavo send him a litre :icon_cheers:


----------



## chappo1970

Cheers Ralph, Gavo and Bribie for the kind offers.

First brew back and I am already culturing up yeasties! 

I might hazzard my chances with Bribies for the moment guys as I already have it on hand. The hazzard comment is more of me than a slag at Bribie as I haven't worked yeasties for a while due to the constant wild yeast infections I was getting.


----------



## hazard

I brewed a Smurto TTL for VicBrew (with the addditonal step of caramelissing 1 litre of first running a la Bribie), and the score sheets said that the body was too thin for an English Pale Ale. I measured FG at 1011, and style guidelines say FG should be 1008 - 1012 so I was a bit surprised. So I've got 2 options:
- argue the toss - not really an option, no point entering a comp for feedback if you then reject it.
- do something about it. in this case, I have brewed this again, and added 500g flaked barley for some additional body (this also bumped OG up to 1053 for 23L). This has been in the fermenter for a week, will cc in another week then bottle. 

I know that flaked barley is supposed t leave a haze and isn't recommended for pale beer, but the hydro sample looked OK, and I'm hoping that 3 weeksd of conditioning will give time for "stuff" to settle out. Time will tell. Has anyone eklse tried this?

Smurto, I used 500g Munich malt as per original recipe - have you now changed this?


----------



## Bribie G

hazard said:


> I brewed a Smurto TTL for VicBrew (with the addditonal step of caramelissing 1 litre of first running a la Bribie), and the score sheets said that the body was too thin for an English Pale Ale. I measured FG at 1011, and style guidelines say FG should be 1008 - 1012 so I was a bit surprised. So I've got 2 options:
> - argue the toss - not really an option, no point entering a comp for feedback if you then reject it.
> - do something about it. in this case, I have brewed this again, and added 500g flaked barley for some additional body (this also bumped OG up to 1053 for 23L). This has been in the fermenter for a week, will cc in another week then bottle.
> 
> I know that flaked barley is supposed t leave a haze and isn't recommended for pale beer, but the hydro sample looked OK, and I'm hoping that 3 weeksd of conditioning will give time for "stuff" to settle out. Time will tell. Has anyone eklse tried this?
> 
> Smurto, I used 500g Munich malt as per original recipe - have you now changed this?



Hazard, yes I use Munich in my TTL variations. What did you mash at? I've had good success at 68 degrees which leaves plenty of body, and I sneak in 500 of sugar into the fermenter - as do many UK brewers - so I'm still getting a strong beer with body.


----------



## drsmurto

Current recipe is 97% Thomas Fawcetts floor malted Maris Otter and 3% weyermann caraaroma. To me, this packs more malt than using bairds MO and munich. 

I mash at 65C on the advice of Wessmith who knows a thing or 2 about malt......

TTL is a dry beer. Mashing higher leaves body behind which some people/judges may prefer but this is not what i want in a Landlord so my preference is to mash at 65C. If you want more body mash higher. 

I'll pass on feedback i get from this years xmas case swap. 

All this is my 2 c only. Its what i want out of this beer. YMMV. :chug:


----------



## ~MikE

it was a tiny bit too dry or too bitter the dryness. i preferred last years myself but it was still a very nice drop.


----------



## Bribie G

I thought Taylor's used Golden Promise. What I've been using.


----------



## Fourstar

BribieG said:


> I thought Taylor's used Golden Promise. What I've been using.



Yep AFAIK thats correct. Ive recently kegged my TTL clone we brewed at the xmas case swap with 100% Simpsons Golden Promise with the 1st 5L caramelised down to around 1L~. Besides the chill haze, the flavour is pretty close from what i remember. I also fermented with Wyeast 1272 which is suprising! I'll have to buy a bottle of TTL or take it to the BJCP course in the new year for a side by side comparison of a leftover bottle we have on hand.

I was very tempted to not put this beer in the fridge as when i had a few test pours from the keg out of the fridge the head was so deliciously creamy! :icon_drool2:


----------



## drsmurto

BribieG said:


> I thought Taylor's used Golden Promise. What I've been using.



It does.

I haven't got around to using it. Yet.


----------



## RdeVjun

Chappo said:


> Thanks RdeVjun. I'll email you some questions in regards to the above Mate. To be honest I am starting to shy away from American styled hop head beers as of late. Plus the Cascade, Chinook, Centennial etc hopped beers have started to blend into one another. I still like them don't get me wrong but the Pommy beers are much more sessionable IMHO. Plus the milds gives me more staying power. :lol:


No sweat Chappo, I can relate. Probably getting OT, but one C hop that might be worth keeping on your list is Challenger (not sure if it qualifies in the regular C hops line up anyway), if you're thinking something pale and English are up your alley at the moment, then don't cross it off- I've only used it in a few batches so far but it is one serious epiphany, and dual purpose to boot. I was leaning towards going a bit hopheaded and American myself for a bit until I discovered it, and largely by accident. The usual suspect has some very decent plugs which I am quite fond of, if you get the chance then give it a whirl at some point, I don't think you'll be disappointed.

I struggled with what to brew for the troops for a lighter Christmas ale so apart from the usual house TTL-esqes I did a couple of Milds (i.e. something slightly more sessionable and lower abv, but largely malt- driven and with Challenger), so far so good and all with 1469. It is very flexible, but I also did a >6% monster ESB for nightcaps with 1768, that should finally put them all to bed when it comes time! B) 

I agree with Dr S too, mash low! The 3% Caraaroma edition is quite OK (sipping one presently) but again with the lower mash temp and don't overdo the gypsum (just too dry). I do however come back to 100% GP, a single decoction (during a protein rest, the GP doesn't really need it though, its just convenient), low mash temps, caramelising some wort and 1469 though, it has become my old faithful with Dr S' original hops schedule, up the late Styrian though to 2g/L. May not be quite the TTL clone everyone would recognise and can be a bit of farting about, but still pretty phenomenal IMHO.

:icon_cheers:


----------



## Effect

~MikE said:


> i preferred last years myself but it was still a very nice drop



+1

but in saying that...i have tasted a heap of beers in between (from feb 09 onwards), i.e. expanding my palate, and it is hard to judge a good beer against any beer that was tasted with an unenlightend palate, if you get what I mean.

Cheers
Phil


----------



## raven19

Here is good Dr's effort on the SA XMas Case Swap, tasty yes!!!





Not sure if the old Grumpy's glass makes it even better or not!


----------



## raven19

Recipe I used on this version (97/3 Split), using Powell's Malts:

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: 15 Smurto's Landlord

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 27.00 L 
Boil Size: 35.37 L
Estimated OG: 1.038 SG
Estimated Color: 12.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 30.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4.90 kg Pale Malt (3.0 SRM) Grain 97.03 % 
0.15 kg Caraaroma (350.0 SRM) Grain 2.97 % 
14.00 gm Chinese Marco Polo [12.00 %] (60 min) Hops 16.8 IBU 
35.00 gm East Kent Goldings [4.80 %] (25 min) Hops 11.7 IBU 
25.00 gm Styrian Goldings [4.80 %] (5 min) Hops 2.4 IBU 
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs 1187 (Wyeast) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: *** Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 5.05 kg
----------------------------
*** Single Infusion, Medium Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
90 min Mash In Add 13.15 L of water at 71.2 C 65.0 C 
10 min Mash Out Add 7.37 L of water at 97.1 C 75.6 C 


Notes:
------
Mash 65
22L and 5L cube at 9.5 Brix 1037
4 Brix FG = 1003


----------



## raven19

And how it looks in the glass...

Different version of the beer (same glass though!) compared to Dr's Case Swap version.

And it is :icon_drool2:


----------



## muckey

and it has to be said that the good doctors company is as good as his beer :beer:


----------



## Tiny_Tim

Thread bump! 

Raven, how did the 1187 yeast go for you? I'm looking to brew this but none of the online brew shops have any 1469 at the moment. Ross has recommended 1318, anyone have any other recommendations?


----------



## michaelcocks

BribieG said:


> Dr Smurto
> 
> Last night at BABBs we had a huge TTL night with a large brew split 25 ways (not necessarily to your recipe) brewed at a microbrewery and each of 25 members did their cube with a different yeast and brought a keg or bottles in for sampling. The differences were amazing. For example DO NOT USE NOTTINGHAM :lol:
> 
> 
> Ahhhh !!!! No I just made the wort up for this one Today (my second go at this...) It's in the cube now..
> 
> I had intended Nottingham yeast for this one (previous was S04) !!
> 
> I checked the fridge I only have Nottingham or US56 or Coopers yeast !!!
> 
> What to do - wait until Easter is over (and loose 5 days that could have been fermenting) or risk one of the above ???
> 
> I guess I _could_ look back and find a brew that had s04 and culture that up ??
> 
> Is the Nottingham really bad with this wort?
> 
> TIA
> 
> Michael


----------



## raven19

Tiny_Tim said:


> Thread bump!
> 
> Raven, how did the 1187 yeast go for you? I'm looking to brew this but none of the online brew shops have any 1469 at the moment. Ross has recommended 1318, anyone have any other recommendations?



Sorry mate, only just saw your Q on this one just now.

I thought it was a cracker with 1187 personally, and have used 1187 on a few brews since.

It is an evolving beer (in terms of the taste changing - for the better) and some mates over the weekend all had positive comments - it has been in the keg essentially lagering for a good 2+ months now.

I hear whispers the Dr is working on an Imperial Version of this at the moment too, cant wait to sample it at some stage


----------



## raven19

michaelcocks said:


> What to do - wait until Easter is over (and loose 5 days that could have been fermenting) or risk one of the above ???



Nottingham should be fine, but are there any nearby brewers with a liquid yeast cake you could use?


----------



## drsmurto

Latest version on tap now

97% TF FM MO
3% Carabohemian

Went down very well with the brewers on the weekend although the rye ESB on the handpump was the feature.

I personally think this is the best version yet but then i am biased


----------



## reviled

I knew carabohemian would go down well in a bitter, done a few brews with it so far and find its really malty but really dry and just slightly acrid at the same time :icon_drool2:


----------



## Effect

DrSmurto said:


> 97% TF FM MO



I wonder if I can get away with saying tifmo instead of saying thomas fawcett floor malted marris otter. 2 syllables against 11 - but also run the risk of getting some weird looks :lol:


----------



## Bribie G

I use tifmgop for this style of brew :lol:


----------



## under

Prob give this one a nudge -

97% TFMO
3% Caraaroma

Yeast on hand - 1099, 1882, SO4 ?? Which one?


----------



## Effect

under said:


> Prob give this one a nudge -
> 
> 97% TFMO
> 3% Caraaroma
> 
> Yeast on hand - 1099, 1882, SO4 ?? Which one?




My instincts would go for the 1099 - but that is only from reading up on the description of the three yeasts you named on craftbrewer.


----------



## drsmurto

under said:


> Prob give this one a nudge -
> 
> 97% TFMO
> 3% Caraaroma
> 
> Yeast on hand - 1099, 1882, SO4 ?? Which one?




The information on 1882 from the Wyeast site sounds promising

"Thames Valley II produces crisp, dry beers with a rich malt profile and moderate stone fruit esters."

Compared to 1469 the yeast i use for this

"This strain produces ales with a full chewy malt flavor and character, but finishes dry, producing famously balanced beers. Expect moderate nutty and stone-fruit esters."


----------



## under

Thames Valley II then. Sounds yum


----------



## WarmBeer

under said:


> Thames Valley II then. Sounds yum


Have used it in an oatmeal stout, and planning on using it in a forthcoming dry stout and a Best Bitter. Is definitely a yummy yeast.

It's a seasonal, so get it before it runs out.


----------



## bconnery

Thames Valley II is what was in the Rye ESB mentioned above. It would definitely suit a landlord-ish beer I think. Probably the best of those three but I think any of them would work ok.


----------



## under

Go some fresh sample of it in the firdge. Used it in a nut brown and a mild. Not bad.


----------



## RdeVjun

As per other respondents, 1882 is certainly decent for the TTL style, I've used it an about a dozen batches of my house ale which precisely that, otherwise I use 1469. Dry, with significant malt presence, its particular floral perfume which is often present early dissipates after a few weeks, leaving the late Styrian to come into their own for a really nice ESB. Good choice!


----------



## Effect

Everyone seems to favor the drier yeast - I would have opted for the 1099 as it seemed to not attenuate as well, which I would have found more desirable in an English bitter. But what do I know? Not enough hops in these English beers if you ask me :lol:


----------



## RdeVjun

Sure you can P, but these dry, comparatively low- hopped ESBs can have loads of hops character too, just balancing them can be a bit fiddly. To be honest though, I cheated- DrS' recipe had things just about right for hops already, for my tastes at least. I would only suggest to increase the recipe's late addition and I think that is almost universally agreed now.
I like the way you think though! B)


----------



## .DJ.

so many yeasts to use.. none of the available at CB!!!

So what to use?

either, 

Wyeast *1187* Ringwood Ale - 
Great yeast strain with unique fermentation & flavour characteristics. 
Distinct fruit ester & high flocculation provide a malty complex profile

or

Wyeast *1275* - Thames Valley Ale - 
Produces classic British bitters, rich complex flavor profile.
Clean, light malt character, low fruitiness, low esters, well balanced.

or 

Wyeast *1335* - British Ale II - 
Typical of British & Canadian ale fermentation profile with good flocculating 
& malty flavor characteristics, crisp finish, clean, fairly dry


----------



## beerbrewer76543

1469 is coming out at the start of October:

CRAFTBREWER LINKY


----------



## .DJ.

yeah, saw that, but need to brew earler than that...


----------



## drsmurto

Ringwood would be my preference


----------



## .DJ.

the Dr has spoken... Cheers mate! :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## argon

L_Bomb said:


> 1469 is coming out at the start of October:
> 
> CRAFTBREWER LINKY



thought this thread would pop up again now that 1469 is on it's way.

1st October i have a planned double batch;
97% Golden Promise TF
3% Cararoma
1469

Floor malted GP or not? I can get Bairds GP FM


----------



## drsmurto

argon said:


> thought this thread would pop up again now that 1469 is on it's way.
> 
> 1st October i have a planned double batch;
> 97% Golden Promise TF
> 3% Cararoma
> 1469
> 
> Floor malted GP or not? I can get Bairds GP FM



I was under the impression that the Bairds GP and MO are not floor malted. The only floor malted english malts we can get are from Thomas Fawcetts.


----------



## argon

DrSmurto said:


> I was under the impression that the Bairds GP and MO are not floor malted. The only floor malted english malts we can get are from Thomas Fawcetts.



oops my bad... had the wrong description saved in beersmith got it arse about... i will be using;
97% Ale - Golden Promise (Thomas Fawcett Floor Malted)
3% Caraaroma Malt (Weyermann)
90 min fuggle to 14.1 IBU
50 min EKG 11.7 IBU
15 min Styrian 6.4 IBU

32.2 IBU
22.4 EBC

1050 OG
1015 SG

1469


----------



## argon

Right then second attempt at this one for this weekend

After a bit of research and plenty of reading Ive decided to go for this;
Still not sure about the hop schedule, specifically IBU/SG ratio. I think its about right. And the colour. Maybe a touch dark???

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Landlord
Brewer: Argon
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Extra Special/Strong Bitter (English Pale Ale)
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 41.00 L 
Boil Size: 40.83 L
Estimated OG: 1.050 SG
Estimated Color: 21.7 EBC
Estimated IBU: 34.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
9.20 kg Ale - Golden Promise TF (6.3 EBC) Grain 96.84 % 
0.30 kg Caraaroma Malt (Weyermann) (400.0 EBC) Grain 3.16 % 
45.00 gm Fuggle [7.70 %] (60 min) Hops 19.4 IBU 
45.00 gm East Kent Goldings [4.80 %] (30 min) Hops 9.3 IBU 
45.00 gm Styrian Goldings [5.00 %] (15 min) Hops 6.2 IBU 
2.00 tsp Koppafloc (Boil 10.0 min) Misc 
10.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs West Yorkshire (Wyeast Labs #1469) [StarteYeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 9.50 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
60 min Mash In Add 25.00 L of water at 72.5 C 65.0 C 
10 min Mashout Heat to 78.0 C over 2 min 78.0 C 


Notes:
------


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


----------



## drsmurto

Perhaps a shade too dark but that's never a bad thing IMO. 

Brew it and report back!


----------



## argon

DrSmurto said:


> Perhaps a shade too dark but that's never a bad thing IMO.
> 
> Brew it and report back!



Alright will do then... :icon_cheers: Can't see it getting any lighter with the use of GP with 3% Cararoma... i'll just leave it as is. 

The last addition of Styrian will be no-chill cube hopped for that really deep flavour... done this a few times with a few different varieties and it alway comes out :icon_drool2: 

Think i might go pick up a bottle of TTL on the way home tonight.


----------



## Bribie G

Caraaroma, now your'e talking :icon_cheers: 
Definitely a crossed thread going on here  but with the Landlordish clone that got me 1st in the BABBs comp in the Special Bitters, I French pressed the Styrians and skipped the cube, added them on pitching the yeast. One of the most aromatic attempts I have made so far.

ps just checked my archive cupboard to see if I've got one for BABBs and s'all gone <_<


----------



## argon

BribieG said:


> Caraaroma, now your'e talking :icon_cheers:
> Definitely a crossed thread going on here  but with the Landlordish clone that got me 1st in the BABBs comp in the Special Bitters, I French pressed the Styrians and skipped the cube, added them on pitching the yeast. One of the most aromatic attempts I have made so far.
> 
> ps just checked my archive cupboard to see if I've got one for BABBs and s'all gone <_<




Very interesting... hmmm so you reckon bitter to 34 IBU or so then french press the Styrians at pitching...
:icon_offtopic: i'll be coming to BABBS this week so would love to bend your ear on this


----------



## jacknohe

argon said:


> The last addition of Styrian will be no-chill cube hopped for that really deep flavour... done this a few times with a few different varieties and it alway comes out :icon_drool2:




Hi Argon

Very interested in your experience of Cube Hopping, particularly with this recipe. I made the original recipe just recently except I've been using the Hop Tea method as I no-chill. However, it was my first time using plugs for a hop tea and I don't feel it did the brew justice. As far as a simple beer goes it tastes fine, just not the hop impact I was expecting. So I was planning on a cube addition instead next time I make it. When do you add the hops to the cube? Before you drain the kettle or after the cube cools to 80C or something else?

JN


----------



## argon

jacknohe said:


> Hi Argon
> 
> Very interested in your experience of Cube Hopping, particularly with this recipe. I made the original recipe just recently except I've been using the Hop Tea method as I no-chill. However, it was my first time using plugs for a hop tea and I don't feel it did the brew justice. As far as a simple beer goes it tastes fine, just not the hop impact I was expecting. So I was planning on a cube addition instead next time I make it. When do you add the hops to the cube? Before you drain the kettle or after the cube cools to 80C or something else?
> 
> JN



Firstly I count cube hops as a 15min addition

Secondly, there's a couple of different methods for cube hopping i've used in the past;
1. Chuck in your hops before you fill the cube and rack the hot wort on top... easy to do with flowers/plugs
2. Insert your hops immediately before sealing the cube easier with pellets.

I prefer to throw them in just as your sealing to capture all the hop aromas immediately... of course the above means you'll end up with hops in the fermenter or need to strain them out.

As for straining just put your hops in a small hop bag and poke them into the cube. When pitching time rolls around the hop matter will be caught up in the bags and not go in the fermenter... easy.

Other wise just strain the cube through some sanitised voile or a sanitised hopsock. (hopsock is easy cause you can insert it in the fermenter and suspend it, then pour into it. It catches quite a lot of trub.)
:icon_cheers:


----------



## aaronpetersen

I'm planning to do the 97% TF FM MO and 3% Caraaroma version of this very soon. I'm a bit confused as to what the currently recommended hop schedule is for this though, as it sounds like it has changed from what is in the recipe database. Can someone please enlighten me.


----------



## RdeVjun

My preference: 
18 IBU Fuggles or Challenger bittering at 90
10 IBU EKG at 20
2g/L Styrian Goldings at 0

You can dry hop or hop tea with some more Styrian during fermentation, I'm happy enough without it but that's me- BribieG may disagree! :icon_cheers:


----------



## argon

RdeVjun said:


> My preference:
> 18 IBU Fuggles or Challenger bittering at 90
> 10 IBU EKG at 20
> 2g/L Styrian Goldings at 0
> 
> You can dry hop or hop tea with some more Styrian during fermentation, I'm happy enough without it but that's me- BribieG may disagree! :icon_cheers:




Do you chill? I no chill was planning a TTL this weekend. Couldn't get GP TF floor malted so just went with Bairds GP... still not sure about my hopping schedule... 

Got it set at 
60 min Fuggles 19IBU
30 min EKG 9IBU
15 min Styrian (cube hopped) 6IBU

So pretty close to what you've said... but how do you treat the Styrians... no worries frecnh pressing..but would have thought your 28 IBU would be a bit under.
I am keeping in mind you did well at QABC :icon_cheers: ... would love to get your thoughts on this


----------



## RdeVjun

argon said:


> Do you chill? I no chill was planning a TTL this weekend. Couldn't get GP TF floor malted so just went with Bairds GP... still not sure about my hopping schedule...
> 
> Got it set at
> 60 min Fuggles 19IBU
> 30 min EKG 9IBU
> 15 min Styrian (cube hopped) 6IBU
> 
> So pretty close to what you've said... but how do you treat the Styrians... no worries frecnh pressing..but would have thought your 28 IBU would be a bit under.
> I am keeping in mind you did well at QABC :icon_cheers: ... would love to get your thoughts on this


Yeah, good points argon! Yes I do chill, although occasionally No- Chill but I don't actually adjust anything. My own preference is for slightly less bittering, but 30 IBUs or a bit over is quite acceptable too, I figure you've got to tweak it to your personal preference though with small variations like this, hard to nail first time. Do what you feel is right first, then adjust accordingly.

I just add the Styrians at the traditional flameout, let it sit for 15 minutes and then start to chill, being a stovetop BIABer I just slip the stockpot into the laundry tub and start filling 'er up!

If you're at BABBs tomorrow I'll have a couple of variants (the two 31 pointers from the comp plus another by 1768), you can decide for yourself! Not that I think they're anything special either, but it just happens to be my house ale, one which I have been particularly pleased with and fond of too.


----------



## argon

RdeVjun said:


> Yeah, good points argon! Yes I do chill, although occasionally No- Chill but I don't actually adjust anything. My own preference is for slightly less bittering, but 30 IBUs or a bit over is quite acceptable too, I figure you've got to tweak it to your personal preference though with small variations like this, hard to nail first time. Do what you feel is right first, then adjust accordingly.
> 
> I just add the Styrians at the traditional flameout, let it sit for 15 minutes and then start to chill, being a stovetop BIABer I just slip the stockpot into the laundry tub and start filling 'er up!
> 
> If you're at BABBs tomorrow I'll have a couple of variants (the two 31 pointers from the comp plus another by 1768), you can decide for yourself! Not that I think they're anything special either, but it just happens to be my house ale, one which I have been particularly pleased with and fond of too.



I'm doing my TTL at 1050 so that's why i've aimed at over 30 IBU but take your point at personaliseing to taste... most important thing IMO. I bet really good result from cube hopping, so ireckon chucking the Styrians in will come out with a nice deep flavour... As i do double batches i 'll be able to potentially french press the second batch if i think it needs it.

Last time i did a TTL i got a wicked starch haze from under extracting the mash, so keen to get it right this time. I'll be at BABBs and keen to bend some ears over this one.


----------



## .DJ.

AaronP said:


> I'm planning to do the 97% TF FM MO and 3% Caraaroma version of this very soon. I'm a bit confused as to what the *currently recommended hop schedule is for this though*, as it sounds like it has changed from what is in the recipe database. Can someone please enlighten me.



+1

DRSmurto, what is your current hopping with the above version?


----------



## aaronpetersen

RdeVjun said:


> My preference:
> 18 IBU Fuggles or Challenger bittering at 90
> 10 IBU EKG at 20
> 2g/L Styrian Goldings at 0
> 
> You can dry hop or hop tea with some more Styrian during fermentation, I'm happy enough without it but that's me- BribieG may disagree! :icon_cheers:



Thanks Ralph, I'll give that a go. Do you find a difference in taste between Fuggles or Challenger for bittering?


----------



## RdeVjun

AaronP said:


> Thanks Ralph, I'll give that a go. Do you find a difference in taste between Fuggles or Challenger for bittering?


Excellent question, Aaron! Challenger lends a slight marmalade taste, so be cautious bittering at high rates unless that's what you want. Stock TTL may not have that, but I don't mind it, if you want the classic style, I'd use Fuggles, and I prefer plugs if they're available.


----------



## drsmurto

My current hop schedule is 1.5g/L of styrians at 0 mins, 1g/L of EKG at 20 mins and then bitter to achieve a total IBU of 30.

The last batch i used First Gold to bitter with as i had run out of Fuggles. 

That is for an OG of 1.044, if you increase the OG to 1.050 i would increase the IBU to 35.


----------



## .DJ.

:icon_cheers:


----------



## Dazza_devil

I'm planning a partial recipe based on this. Early times but I reckon to be using around 2kgs of MO, making the gravity up with LDME and I want to replace any other grain editions with Brown Malt. I've never done a partial or used Brown Malt before. Can anyone suggest a desirable amount to use in such a way? I'm not that fussy about EBC but more a flavour balance, not too dry or biscuity.


----------



## Bribie G

Argon
If you are kegging, try getting a big metal mesh teaball, put in a plug of Styrians and just let it sit next to the pickup tube :icon_drool2:


----------



## RdeVjun

BribieG said:


> Argon
> If you are kegging, try getting a big metal mesh teaball, put in a plug of Styrians and just let it sit next to the pickup tube :icon_drool2:


I just bought a 30- pack of the plugs, had this sort of devious thing in mind... mmm, mmmm!! :icon_drool2:


----------



## argon

BribieG said:


> Argon
> If you are kegging, try getting a big metal mesh teaball, put in a plug of Styrians and just let it sit next to the pickup tube :icon_drool2:




Thanks mate... yep i am kegging. Only got pellets though... will have to get a bag of plugs for keg hopping. 

Because I've got 2 cubes waiting... was planning on doing 1 straight up as brewed and then if needs be do the second one with a bit of hop tea and/or dryhopping/keg hopping.

I've found that dry hopping pellets into the keg, even wrapped in voile, lets some hop particles out and the poured beer gets bits in it. Did it the other day in a Cascade Mild and get a fair bit of hop sediment in the glass.


----------



## under

Did this - 

Recipe: 28 - Landlord
Brewer: Dazza
Asst Brewer: 
Style: Special/Best/Premium Bitter
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 23.00 L 
Boil Size: 27.00 L
Estimated OG: 1.045 SG
Estimated Color: 17.1 EBC
Estimated IBU: 32.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4.24 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Thomas Fawcett) (5Grain 97.00 % 
0.13 kg Caraaroma (Weyermann) (350.7 EBC) Grain 3.00 % 
29.00 gm Fuggles [7.00 %] (60 min) Hops 22.5 IBU 
30.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.80 %] (20 min) Hops  9.7 IBU 
28.00 gm Styrian Goldings (Cube Hop) [5.00 %] (1 mHops 0.7 IBU 


Probably the best beer I have made. Bloody simple, bloody beautiful.

You think this bill will work with amarillo or cascade / centennial?? Combo 

Im going to experiment.

Thanks again Comrade Smurto!!


----------



## Bribie G

Sounds delicious, Under. I once did a TTL variant which I called "Green Dragon" after the pub at Bywater in the Lord of the Rings. On a whim I put in only 20g of Cascade in the last 10 minutes and it stomped all over the UK hops. I know a few of the Pom regional breweries now use some Cascade but I'd be very cautious. I would just go for 10g to tickle the flavour or aroma up a bit, but combine with good strong pom hops like Challenger in the background.


----------



## .DJ.

I have this in a cube waiting... cant wait!!!


----------



## RdeVjun

This is one of the simplest English recipes and is even easier now that 1469 is in the shops- 3% Caraaroma, just about any base malt mashed low (for a drier ESB), then 2 plugs each of Fuggles, EKG and Styrian at the usual timing. Happy days! :icon_drool2: 

The Challenger bittering sub works IMO, a bit of marmalade in the background goes quite well. Dunno about other C hops, mind you the Green Dragon variant was superb! :icon_cheers:


----------



## Williams

This re


under said:


> Did this -
> 
> Recipe: 28 - Landlord
> Brewer: Dazza
> Asst Brewer:
> Style: Special/Best/Premium Bitter
> TYPE: All Grain
> Taste: (35.0)
> 
> Recipe Specifications
> --------------------------
> Batch Size: 23.00 L
> Boil Size: 27.00 L
> Estimated OG: 1.045 SG
> Estimated Color: 17.1 EBC
> Estimated IBU: 32.9 IBU
> Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
> Boil Time: 75 Minutes
> 
> Ingredients:
> ------------
> Amount Item Type % or IBU
> 4.24 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Thomas Fawcett) (5Grain 97.00 %
> 0.13 kg Caraaroma (Weyermann) (350.7 EBC) Grain 3.00 %
> 29.00 gm Fuggles [7.00 %] (60 min) Hops 22.5 IBU
> 30.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [4.80 %] (20 min) Hops 9.7 IBU
> 28.00 gm Styrian Goldings (Cube Hop) [5.00 %] (1 mHops 0.7 IBU
> 
> 
> Probably the best beer I have made. Bloody simple, bloody beautiful.
> 
> You think this bill will work with amarillo or cascade / centennial?? Combo
> 
> Im going to experiment.
> 
> Thanks again Comrade Smurto!!



HI this recipe sounds great and it seem to be very tasty.I was searching for this recipe from a long time and finaaly got the recipe from one of my friend and I tried that recipe at home its awesome.I am giving you the recipe :

Pale Malt 3436gm
crystal Malt 358gm
Amber Malt 224gm
wheat Malt 368gm
Torrified wheat 178gm
Target Hops 44gm,added at the start of Boil(42 Bittering Units).
Golding Hops 18gm,added at the last fifteen minutes of the boil.
Goldings Hops 8gm,added at the end of the boil,leave to soak for 30 minutes.
Estimated OG 1044.


----------



## argon

Just pitched my TTLL tonight. Nice active starter of 1469 (thanks Ralph!) got an empty keg ready and waiting as well as a second cube ready for top cropping. Looking forward to have a nice English ale on... It's been a while.


----------



## under

Yeah. getting this back on tap shortly. Love this beer.


----------



## big78sam

I have this in the fermenter at the moment. Hydrometer samples are great! I'm looking forward to getting it bottled.

I used Ringwood 1187 and it's dropped from 1046 to 1008, almost 83% attenuation and still dropping (now only a point a day). I've struggled with this yeast stalling in the past but think I have it sorted now with a 2.25L starter, fermented at 20-21 degrees and giving the fermenter a swirl twice a day for the first few days.


----------



## argon

Will be polyclar-ing and (maybe) filtering tonight... sample i took last night was :icon_drool2: i'm getting all giddy over this one. can't wait. :icon_cheers:


----------



## RdeVjun

Fingers crossed for happy days ahead with this one, argon! :icon_chickcheers: 
Usually I can't be arsed clearing UK Bitters but 1469 is a fairly tidy strain anyway, that's not to say it shouldn't be done- even I can manage a dry Polyclar addition though and suppose I really should, but filtering would indeed test my patience.

Seeing as I've got a couple of full GP sacks here and only a couple of batches- worth of pils, I'm thinking this one's back in vogue for all the upcoming holiday madness chez moi. :icon_drunk:


----------



## Lecterfan

I am doing this brew on Wednesday and I've got an extra 250gms of carapils sitting around...would there be any drastic drawbacks to chucking it in? I haven't been true to the brand of malt, but have used this recipe as a base for the upcoming mash.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks all.


----------



## Dazza_devil

Lecterfan said:


> I am doing this brew on Wednesday and I've got an extra 250gms of carapils sitting around...would there be any drastic drawbacks to chucking it in? I haven't been true to the brand of malt, but have used this recipe as a base for the upcoming mash.
> 
> Any advice would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks all.




I wouldn't if it had been sitting around too long stored in unfavourable conditions. 
I'm not sure if you would have to adjust your mash temp to account for a higher FG.
I personally don't really see any benefits from using it.


----------



## RdeVjun

Lecterfan, I'd recommend the mindset of only putting things into beer if they're contributing some demonstrable* or defined benefit. There's a good chance it won't do any harm, then OTOH, you could wreck a beer that would've been great without it...

* Yes, demonstrable is a stretch sometimes, but you get what I mean.


----------



## Lecterfan

Thanks guys. I should have mentioned the carapils is only 3 days old, vacuum packed in the fridge. I forgot to chuck it in a mash I did yesterday.

Sounds like I'll just hold off and stick it in something else.

Thanks again.

edit: RdeVjun - "demonstrable" is never a stretch, and its usage was entirely appropriate and appreciated!


----------



## argon

Ended up filtering 2 kegs worth on Friday night. Should be nicely gassed by now. I haven't yet connected the beer out line... Just to stop mensammpling it and finishing it within a week. Small hydro I took was great!! Can only get better over the next few weeks. I'm trying not to take a pint at least unti the weekend. Don't know if I can do it.

@rdevjun filtering's not too bad mate... Just sit back and have a couple if beers while it does it's thing. Perfectly clear beer everytime. BTW that best bitter to gave me was excellent. Was that the challenger version by chance... I thought I got some orange zest notes. Overall just a great balanced beer. Cheers


----------



## RdeVjun

@argon ... must... resist... t.. t.. temptation!


----------



## argon

Do it... And while you're at it take that co2 bottle home and grab a couple of kegs. You know you want to.


----------



## drsmurto

Lecterfan said:


> I am doing this brew on Wednesday and I've got an extra 250gms of carapils sitting around...would there be any drastic drawbacks to chucking it in? I haven't been true to the brand of malt, but have used this recipe as a base for the upcoming mash.
> 
> Any advice would be appreciated.
> 
> Thanks all.



Not a fan of carapils so i would say please don't put it anywhere near a Landlord (or any english bitter).

Preferably not even in the same postcode.


----------



## Hatchy

I'm looking at brewing this when I get home from WA. I read through the thread last night & got horribly confused about what grain bill & yeast to use after having a few of the take aways from the micros we've been to over here. As far as caremelisation, would it be viable to boil all of the 1st runnings while I sparge & leave it boiling until I get my pre boil volume (which would actually already be boiling).


----------



## manticle

My experience of caramelising suggests just getting a portion of the total wort, separating it and boiling that down. 2-3 L takes the same amount of time to reduce to thick, almost but not quite burnt syrup on my stove as a boil does to finish on my system. All systems will vary, obviously.

I had some strange experiences with head retention from beers that caramelised first runnings - no idea of the science behind it but since caramelising portion of whole wort there's been no issue.

PS I know for any pedants out there that we are really producing maillard reactions (although mine does get boiled down to almost dry) but shut up felten.


----------



## drsmurto

PM sent Hatchy


----------



## argon

Hatchy said:


> I'm looking at brewing this when I get home from WA. I read through the thread last night & got horribly confused about what grain bill & yeast to use after having a few of the take aways from the micros we've been to over here. As far as caremelisation, would it be viable to boil all of the 1st runnings while I sparge & leave it boiling until I get my pre boil volume (which would actually already be boiling).




the conclusion that i came to after reading this and many other threads/sites about TTLL was a grain bill consisting of;
97% TF FM GP
3% Cararoma (in lieu of the caramelisation portion)

then to hop in 3 parts (read here for some background)

Fuggles 60 mins
EKG 30 mins
Styrian late 15 - 5mins

All to a total of around 30IBU

and using 1469

This what i ended up doing linky

filtered and kegged last Friday trying very hard not to sample it till tomorrow night.


----------



## argon

Blew the first keg last night  ... That snuck up on me... less than a month from primary is pretty quick for me. Lucky i have the second one, just chanegd it over and kept going. Second keg was filtered till the filter clogged, then ran the last 4L straight to the keg. Has a bit of yeast haze, but don't mind cause i get a bit more 1469  

I'll be brewing this again soon.


----------



## np1962

My keg also blew last night  
Will be brewing this again in the morning so will have a keg ready for Christmas Day drinks.
Nige


----------



## Fuggle

Hi Guys,

I brewed this on Saturday. 

Today when I got home from work I noticed my beer looks milky, see pics !!!

I have made a few all grain recipes lately and all have been good.

This was the first batch I wacked a wirlfloc in.

Is that why it's milky, or is it stuffed ???


----------



## Acasta

Fuggle said:


> This was the first batch I wacked a wirlfloc in.
> 
> Is that why it's milky, or is it stuffed ???



How much whirlfloc? Did you let it settle out or just add everything in?


----------



## Fuggle

Acasta said:


> How much whirlfloc? Did you let it settle out or just add everything in?



1/2 a tablet, 15 mins at the end of boil mate


----------



## Acasta

Fuggle said:


> 1/2 a tablet, 15 mins at the end of boil mate



How long has it been in the fermenter? Whirlfloc is used to make all the proteins out of the brew in the kettle. It wouldn't effect the brew after that i wouldn't imagine, if anything, it should clear up faster.


----------



## manticle

Looks like fermenting beer to me fuggle. Take the advice of your signature.


----------



## Fuggle

Saturday arvo,


----------



## Fuggle

manticle said:


> Looks like fermenting beer to me fuggle. Take the advice of your signature.



lol, cheers Manticle


----------



## Acasta

Fuggle said:


> Saturday arvo,





manticle said:


> Looks like fermenting beer to me fuggle. Take the advice of your signature.



Yep.


----------



## argon

manticle said:


> Looks like fermenting beer to me fuggle. Take the advice of your signature.



yep looks like a nice healthy vigorous fermentation... nice one... Which yeast are you using? 1469 i hope :icon_drool2:


----------



## Fuggle

argon said:


> yep looks like a nice healthy vigorous fermentation... nice one... Which yeast are you using? 1469 i hope :icon_drool2:



1469, u betcha


----------



## Fuggle

Hi Guys,

I've just got home from work, I've had Landlord carbonating over the weekend. 

Just poured my self a glass from the tap of my new kegerator.

I can taste a little fusel alchohol. I've had some hot days in the shed. My fermenting method is just a carboy in the shed with an old t shirt over it, so I dare say that's why I'm guessing that, It fermented very fast the first day or 2 then slowed down, etc.

I wacked it into secondry for a week into my kegerator at 3-4c. Kegged it on Saturday morning and Carbed @ 300 kpa or around 45 psi, also @ around 3-4c.

It's slightly over carbed, but hey a little froth dosn't hurt.

See what happens in a few days.

I have a primary of Arons best and a secondry of Arons best also ready to keg soon,

I'm havin' so much fun makin' my own brew.

PS, I jst got a pm from somebody, I won't name them...
quote, "how can someone with 24 posts know about fusel alchohols"

I guess painting cars for 25 years and dealing with "thinners" one would know what that tastes like.
And secondly, I still methanol and ethanol, have done for the past 5 years. I also recycle thinners...



Cheers guys


----------



## Guysmiley54

Since when does post count have anything to do with a persons knowledge or experience level? What a lousy PM to receive mate  



Fuggle said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I've just got home from work, I've had Landlord carbonating over the weekend.
> 
> Just poured my self a glass from the tap of my new kegerator.
> 
> I can taste a little fusel alchohol. My fermenting method is just a carboy in the shed with an old t shirt over it, so I dare say that's why I'm guessing that, It fermented very fast the first day or 2 then slowed down, etc.
> 
> I wacked it into secondry for a week into my kegerator at 3-4c. Kegged it on Saturday morning and Carbed @ 300 kpa or around 45 psi, also @ around 3-4c.
> 
> It's slightly over carbed, but hey a little froth dosn't hurt.
> 
> See what happens in a few days.
> 
> I have a primary of Arons best and a secondry of Arons best also ready to keg soon,
> 
> I'm havin' so much fun makin' my own brew.
> 
> PS, I jst got a pm from somebody, I won't name them...
> quote, "how can someone with 24 posts know about fusel alchohols"
> 
> I guess painting cars for 25 years and dealing with "thinners" one would know what that tastes like.
> And secondly, I still methanol and ethanol, have done for the past 5 years. I also recycle thinners...
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers guys


----------



## beerbog

Fuggle said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I brewed this on Saturday.
> 
> Today when I got home from work I noticed my beer looks milky, see pics !!!
> 
> I have made a few all grain recipes lately and all have been good.
> 
> This was the first batch I wacked a wirlfloc in.
> 
> Is that why it's milky, or is it stuffed ???



That's the yeast cake dude plus anything else you didn't get out of the kettle when you banged it into the fermentor. :beerbang:


----------



## big78sam

Down to 4 bottles of my first attempt of this left. Just pitched a 1469 on this tonight. Hopefully the ice bottle trick should keep the temps down sufficiently with 39 degrees tomorrow.

I allowed for some lower efficiency as I wasn't sure what my new mill and first time using Crisp MO would do. Ended up with spot on 75% and 1048. Hydro sample is :icon_drool2: 

Now the struggle is to wait a month until it's fermented, bottled and carbed...


----------



## big78sam

big78sam said:


> Down to 4 bottles of my first attempt of this left. Just pitched a 1469 on this tonight. Hopefully the ice bottle trick should keep the temps down sufficiently with 39 degrees tomorrow.
> 
> I allowed for some lower efficiency as I wasn't sure what my new mill and first time using Crisp MO would do. Ended up with spot on 75% and 1048. Hydro sample is :icon_drool2:
> 
> Now the struggle is to wait a month until it's fermented, bottled and carbed...




Time to report back...

My first batch was with 1187 and second with 1469 and my goodness how different they are. The first with 1187 finished much drier and the hop character really came through. The second was 1469 and the malt is really prominent but the hops are more subdued. I've seen the description "chewy" malt and this sums up the 1469 perfectly. I don't know which I prefer, they were both so different. The higher FG and OG in the latest batch probably contribute to the additional malt character.

All the other things, mash/fermentation temp etc were the same or pretty close but I think some further experimentation is required. Maybe 1469 with some extra hops would be perfect.


----------



## argon

big78sam said:


> Maybe 1469 with some extra hops would be perfect.



This is the perfect statement... a phrase to live your life by


----------



## wrath

Heading to the LHBS today, on the off chance i cannot get any 1469, any idea how 1318 would go with this as I have a few stubs of slurry. 

I suspect may finish a bit sweet?


----------



## argon

Never tried 1318, but if you're going to the LHBS anyway and if they don't have 1469, grab some 1187 Ringwood. Decent sub and suits the Yorky Bitters nicely. :icon_cheers:


----------



## wrath

Cheers Argon


----------



## drsmurto

WY1469 on the stirplate

Finally got some Golden Promise (Fawcetts floor malted) so am going to belt out another Landlord.

97% GP
3% Simpsons Medium Crystal
Usual hopping schedule

:icon_drool2:


----------



## manticle

I recently used your hopping schedule with 100% TF Golden promise and the wort caramelisation trick.

Still pretty pale (looks beautiful and clear though) but having trouble not drinking it. Batch nearly gone


----------



## drsmurto

manticle said:


> I recently used your hopping schedule with 100% TF Golden promise and the wort caramelisation trick.
> 
> Still pretty pale (looks beautiful and clear though) but having trouble not drinking it. Batch nearly gone



Nice one Manticle! Got a pic?

Just took an FG reading (1.010) and had a taste of the TF FM GP Landlord (recipe 2 posts up)

Very happy with the result.

Will be cold conditioning till the weekend and then putting it on tap. The lack of nuttiness and more of a sweet honey like quality when compared to the MO is very noticeable.

I like it a lot. :chug:


----------



## manticle

No pic, sorry. 

I was too busy drinking it. Just ordered some more 1469 to brew it again so I'll remember to take one and post it here. Was judged too pale for style at recent Worthogs pale ale mania (3rd place though) so I might caramelise a bit more of the wort and see if that changes anything.

Love those styrians. Gorgeous, subtle mandarins.


----------



## raven19

DrSmurto said:


> ...TF FM GP ...
> 
> ...The lack of nuttiness and more of a sweet honey like quality when compared to the MO is very noticeable.



I also noticed this when pitching yeast into a (totally different) beer comprising mainly Golden Promise too. Some great 'honey-esque' properties there.


----------



## argon

DrSmurto said:


> WY1469 on the stirplate
> 
> Finally got some Golden Promise (Fawcetts floor malted) so am going to belt out another Landlord.
> 
> 97% GP
> 3% Simpsons Medium Crystal
> Usual hopping schedule
> 
> :icon_drool2:


DrS, how did the colour turn out with the medium crystal? I've been doing 97% TFFMGP + 3% caraaroma and I think it may be a tad too dark for a true TTLL clone. Maybe medium crystal would be closer?


----------



## gibbocore

Righto folks, can someone save me the hassle of dredging through the last 13 pages to find the latest grain bill?

Have made the original a buttload of times but interested to see whats new.

BTW its good to be back and filling up my keg stocks again.


----------



## drsmurto

gibbocore said:


> Righto folks, can someone save me the hassle of dredging through the last 13 pages to find the latest grain bill?
> 
> Have made the original a buttload of times but interested to see whats new.
> 
> BTW its good to be back and filling up my keg stocks again.



Now that TF malts are available (they werent when i first posted this recipe) i've dropped the munich and added a small crystal malt addition. 

I personally find caraaroma a tad too dark and the flavour contribution just a wee bit too much.

Simpsons medium crystal is a gorgeous spec malt, i chew on a small handful when ever i am milling it.

So the current recipe I use is 97-98% TF MO or GP, 2-3% medium crystal (simpsons, or wey carabohemian is another i like to use). Hop schedule is the same and the yeast (WY1469) the same.

Recently purchased an aquarium pump and airstone from Ross and got this recipe to drop down to 1.010 rather than the usual 1.012/3. No change in the mash temp or anything esle and the yeast was an old smackpack (Oct 2010) that i built up on a stirplate the same way i always do. The extra dryness is what i was after. Landlord is malty but has a nice dry finish and i think this is my best version yet. Still needs to be racked and kegged so anything could happen between now and then but i am quietly chuffed with how this has turned out.


----------



## gibbocore

nice one, cheers mate, might need an airstone and pump haha. 

How long did you aerate for?


----------



## drsmurto

gibbocore said:


> nice one, cheers mate, might need an airstone and pump haha.
> 
> How long did you aerate for?



Until the foam was about to climb out of the fermenter 

20L in a 30L fermenter, at a guess 15 mins.


----------



## warra48

gibbocore said:


> nice one, cheers mate, might need an airstone and pump haha.
> 
> How long did you aerate for?



I use an airstone and an aquarium pump.
Mine gets used till the foam rises to the top of the fermenter.
This process is repeated a few times over the first 5 or 6 hours after pitching the yeast.
I get similar attenuation results to DrS.


----------



## lespaul

DrSmurto said:


> Now that TF malts are available (they werent when i first posted this recipe) i've dropped the munich and added a small crystal malt addition.
> 
> I personally find caraaroma a tad too dark and the flavour contribution just a wee bit too much.
> 
> Simpsons medium crystal is a gorgeous spec malt, i chew on a small handful when ever i am milling it.
> 
> So the current recipe I use is 97-98% TF MO or GP, 2-3% medium crystal (simpsons, or wey carabohemian is another i like to use). Hop schedule is the same and the yeast (WY1469) the same.
> 
> Recently purchased an aquarium pump and airstone from Ross and got this recipe to drop down to 1.010 rather than the usual 1.012/3. No change in the mash temp or anything esle and the yeast was an old smackpack (Oct 2010) that i built up on a stirplate the same way i always do. The extra dryness is what i was after. Landlord is malty but has a nice dry finish and i think this is my best version yet. Still needs to be racked and kegged so anything could happen between now and then but i am quietly chuffed with how this has turned out.



Having already bought the caraaroma, should I just reduce the amount I use to say 2% or less?


----------



## argon

lespaul said:


> Having already bought the caraaroma, should I just reduce the amount I use to say 2% or less?



The only reason i'd drop the Caraaroma back to 2% is just for colour correction if your looking to get pretty close to a clone in appearance. Personally I love the big caramel flavour and aroma that a decent whack of Caraaroma gives me. So scaling back will obviously give you less of that. 

Your call on what you want.


----------



## drsmurto

I'd drop it back to 2% but as mentioned, i prefer the lighter coloured crystal malts in this Landlord recipe.


----------



## drsmurto

DrSmurto said:


> WY1469 on the stirplate
> 
> Finally got some Golden Promise (Fawcetts floor malted) so am going to belt out another Landlord.
> 
> 97% GP
> 3% Simpsons Medium Crystal
> Usual hopping schedule
> 
> :icon_drool2:



This version of Landlord is VERY nice. Maybe the best version yet. :icon_drool2: 

The malt body was fantastic but due to a lower finishing gravity (1.010) it had a nice dry finish. 4.4% so a tad bigger and the 30 IBU was so well balanced.

Now to belt out another batch for a camping trip and a batch after that to be served through the handpump at the AABC clubnight. :icon_drunk:


----------



## Bribie G

Can't believe you've left it till now to try the GP  

As we used to say in Newcastle, "That'll lorn ye" :lol:


----------



## humulus

Dr Smurto im keen to put down your landlord,but its my first venture into no chill(20l).
what is yours or anyone else opinion on hop additions to keep it within style???
cheers in advance humulus


----------



## drsmurto

Bribie G said:


> Can't believe you've left it till now to try the GP
> 
> As we used to say in Newcastle, "That'll lorn ye" :lol:



One of those things Bribie, kept falling down the to do list. Wont be the last time i use GP! :icon_drunk: 




humulus said:


> Dr Smurto im keen to put down your landlord,but its my first venture into no chill(20l).
> what is yours or anyone else opinion on hop additions to keep it within style???
> cheers in advance humulus



Drop the 0 min addition of styrian goldings and add it as a hop tea after fermentation. Leave the rest as is.


----------



## pokolbinguy

Hi All,

Thinking of making this recipe but can't find the Marris Otter on the Craftbrewer website, nor the Bairds choc malt (can substitute this for other choc malt I assume) also no fuggles or Goldings East Keng. . Might be able to get it from MHB but not much time these days to head to newcastle and the freight cost from CB is similar to the cost of going to MHB and back anyway.

Any suggestions on other malts to use? If not I'll give MHB a ring and see if he carries it.

Cheers, Pok


----------



## manticle

TF golden Promise. Usuaully available from craftbrewer and better for this recipe anyway (the good doctor's later tweaks seem to recommend this as well).


----------



## RdeVjun

Yep, I'd go with Golden Promise too. Give CB or MHB a call, they should be able to supply or sub everything in the recipe with ease. Nb. Dr S' recent post though, the recipe has developed a little since the original was posted. If you can't source 1469 (its still a seasonal release), PM me. :icon_cheers:


----------



## Bribie G

<shitstir>

I believe that Mark's Home Brew Shop can match CB's malt prices - and he has an absolute shitload in store as seen the other week

</shitstir>

(how many times am I allowed to say shit in one post?) :icon_cheers:


----------



## manticle

I believe I'd favour CB over MHB.

Shit stir


----------



## humulus

Just saw the Drs revised recipe,my LHBS has Simpsons Imperial Ale malt could i use that instead of Crystal?
cheers


----------



## Bribie G

Ask them about Simpson's Heritage Crystal, thats the duck's nuts.


----------



## drsmurto

pokolbinguy said:


> Hi All,
> 
> Thinking of making this recipe but can't find the Marris Otter on the Craftbrewer website, nor the Bairds choc malt (can substitute this for other choc malt I assume) also no fuggles or Goldings East Keng. . Might be able to get it from MHB but not much time these days to head to newcastle and the freight cost from CB is similar to the cost of going to MHB and back anyway.
> 
> Any suggestions on other malts to use? If not I'll give MHB a ring and see if he carries it.
> 
> Cheers, Pok



Been belting the Landlord tap over the weekend and am very happy with it.

Current recipe is

97% Golden Promise
3% Simpsons Medium Crystal
Fuggles to 30 IBU
1g/L EKG at 20
1g/L Stryians at 20
Wyeast 1469

So I'd suggest trying to find the Thomas Fawcetts Golden Promise and Simpsons (or Bairds) medium or dark crystal. Heard good thinsg about Simpsons heritage crystal but yet to use it (assuming its different from their regular crystal). When my crystal malt supply gets low i will be ordering some.


----------



## Bribie G

Simpsons Heritage Crystal is made from Maris Otter.


----------



## amarks5

DrSmurto said:


> Been belting the Landlord tap over the weekend and am very happy with it.
> 
> Current recipe is
> 
> 97% Golden Promise
> 3% Simpsons Medium Crystal
> Fuggles to 30 IBU
> 1g/L EKG at 20
> 1g/L Stryians at 20
> Wyeast 1469
> 
> So I'd suggest trying to find the Thomas Fawcetts Golden Promise and Simpsons (or Bairds) medium or dark crystal. Heard good thinsg about Simpsons heritage crystal but yet to use it (assuming its different from their regular crystal). When my crystal malt supply gets low i will be ordering some.




Dr Smurto,

What mash schedule do you use for TTL?

Cheers,

Tony


----------



## drsmurto

el tono said:


> Dr Smurto,
> 
> What mash schedule do you use for TTL?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tony



Single infusion at 65-66C for 90 mins. 60 mins is fine, i tend to take my time with brewing so do a 90 minute mash (with a thin decoction mashout) and a 90 minute boil.


----------



## MaestroMatt

Seen a few threads banging about but wanted to get the information from the source....

What substitute yeast would you recommend for the 1469? I've read it's a seasonal.

I was thinking 1099 Whitbread might do the trick but could be too fruity if not careful, no?


----------



## amarks5

DrSmurto said:


> Single infusion at 65-66C for 90 mins. 60 mins is fine, i tend to take my time with brewing so do a 90 minute mash (with a thin decoction mashout) and a 90 minute boil.




Many thanks Dr.
Tony


----------



## amarks5

MaestroMatt said:


> Seen a few threads banging about but wanted to get the information from the source....
> 
> What substitute yeast would you recommend for the 1469? I've read it's a seasonal.
> 
> I was thinking 1099 Whitbread might do the trick but could be too fruity if not careful, no?




I'm interested in the answer to this one. I have some 1187 in the fridge. Will this do for TTL if I can't get 1469?
Tony


----------



## Bribie G

el tono said:


> I'm interested in the answer to this one. I have some 1187 in the fridge. Will this do for TTL if I can't get 1469?
> Tony



1187 Ringwood is a good choice for Yorkshire Bitters, from the Hull brewery originally. It top ferments etc like 1469 but turns out a bit fruity if fermented over 20 degrees, so ferment coolish.


----------



## amarks5

Bribie G said:


> 1187 Ringwood is a good choice for Yorkshire Bitters, from the Hull brewery originally. It top ferments etc like 1469 but turns out a bit fruity if fermented over 20 degrees, so ferment coolish.



Great. Thanks Bribie.

Tony


----------



## MaestroMatt

el tono said:


> Great. Thanks Bribie.
> 
> Tony


Ditto. Thanks Bribie. The 1187 was going to be my next choice so it make complete sense to use it instead.


----------



## drsmurto

Bribie G said:


> 1187 Ringwood is a good choice for Yorkshire Bitters, from the Hull brewery originally. It top ferments etc like 1469 but turns out a bit fruity if fermented over 20 degrees, so ferment coolish.



Ringwood was (and is still) my first true love. :wub: 

If for some reason i am out of WY1469 and can't beg, borrow or steal more i have no problem going back to Ringwood.

Less attenuative than 1469 though so I'd be mashing at 65C max to dry and get the dry finish you want in a Landlord.


----------



## Mikedub

thinking about using a WLP005 I've got in the fridge with this recipe, any suggestions on how it would sit
cheers


----------



## drsmurto

Mikedub said:


> thinking about using a WLP005 I've got in the fridge with this recipe, any suggestions on how it would sit
> cheers



WLP005 is apparently the same strain as WY1187 (Ringwood) so all good.


----------



## Mikedub

thanks Dr, I really should have researched that myself before posting, the vile is a few months past its use by date (LBS freebe) but I'm sure some TLC will bring those little zombies back to life,


----------



## donburke

i am wondering if anyone has tried brewing this recipe using a pilsner malt as the base malt ?

i have run out of tffmgp but have wey floor malted bo pils,

should i punt it or just use my bopils for what its intended for ?


----------



## felten

I have the same malt that I'm using as a base malt replacement for ale malt. It won't make the same beer as with the English malts, but it won't be terrible. Worth a try if you really want to make it.


----------



## going down a hill

I've made a neighbour of the landlord. 

I used Ringwood yeast and for the hops I went with Perle .8/l @ 60m and 1g/l @ 15m. It isn't TTL but it is a delicious beer. Thanks for the inspiration.


----------



## drsmurto

97% Golden Promise
3% Simpsons Medium Crystal
Fuggles to 30 IBU
1g/L EKG at 20
1g/L Stryians at 20
Wyeast 1469

Still a shade lighter than the real deal (and yet another terrible phone pic) but it's rocking my world. :icon_drunk:


----------



## RdeVjun

DrSmurto said:


> 97% Golden Promise
> 3% Simpsons Medium Crystal
> Fuggles to 30 IBU
> 1g/L EKG at 20
> 1g/L Stryians at 20
> Wyeast 1469
> 
> Still a shade lighter than the real deal (and yet another terrible phone pic) but it's rocking my world. :icon_drunk:


 Late, but worth the wait- first ale of the season! Doing one with left- over Halcyon today, much the same as yours. I've got another fresh bag for other devious tricks, so need to use this one up and DSL is an ideal keg filler! :icon_cheers:


----------



## cdbrown

So just to confirm you've changed the 0min addition to 20min addition?


----------



## drsmurto

cdbrown said:


> So just to confirm you've changed the 0min addition to 20min addition?




Bugger. That's a typo. Styrians are still a 0 min addition


----------



## Mikedub

0= flameout or dry hopped?


----------



## RdeVjun

Flameout.
Some folks will dry hop or French press some Styrian in addition to that but personally I'm happy with the FO addition as is.


----------



## Mikedub

cheers, RdeVjun 
unsure which way to go on this, I'm just ramping up the boil now, OG a tad over at 1.051, should I bump up the IBUS to say low 40's or dilute down? ,


----------



## argon

I have a TTLL on right now ( in my sig ) that was 1051 og and around 37ibu. Bitterness seems about right. Although I should have added some more flameout.

Just re-read... Is your pre-boil 1051? You'd probably get a 1058 or so OG then. If so, yep bump to about 40-41 IBU.


----------



## Mikedub

pre 1.044, post in beersmith is calculated at 1.051, 
I'm trying your late additions approach, (late additions in 2 litres tomorrow and combined with 4 degree cube) so I could make IBU alterations there I guess
thanks


----------



## drsmurto

Spent the last 4 days around a campfire.

The keg of Landlord went before the keg of golden ale :icon_drunk: 

0 mins is definitely a flameout addition.


----------



## donburke

i ran out of golden promise and was hanging for a landlord type of beer, so made this on saturday, 

wonder how much different it will be with the bopils as the base malt



Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 85.00 L 
Boil Size: 92.40 L
Estimated OG: 1.043 SG
Estimated Color: 19.2 EBC
Estimated IBU: 31.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
13.00 kg Pilsner Bohemium Floor Malted (Weyermann) Grain 77.61 % 
2.00 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 11.94 % 
0.75 kg Maize, Flaked (Bairds) (2.5 EBC) Grain 4.48 % 
0.50 kg Caraaroma (Weyermann) (400.0 EBC) Grain 2.99 % 
0.50 kg Victory Malt (55.0 EBC) Grain 2.99 % 
100.00 gm Fuggles [3.80 %] (105 min) (First Wort HoHops 13.4 IBU 
100.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.10 %] (30 min) Hops 11.6 IBU 
100.00 gm Styrian Goldings [3.50 %] (20 min) Hops 6.3 IBU 
2.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
4.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
9.00 gm Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
9.00 gm Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
2 Pkgs Thames Valley Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1882) Yeast-Ale 
2 Pkgs West Yorkshire (Wyeast Labs #1469) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 16.75 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
75 min Mash In Add 44.00 L of water at 74.2 C 67.0 C 
10 min Mash Out Add 24.00 L of water at 94.9 C 76.0 C 


Notes:
------
FWH IS AT FIRST RUNNINGS
30 MIN IS 15 MIN ADDITION
20 MIN IS 5 MIN ADDITION

TOP UP KETTLE DURING BOIL

FINAL KETTLE VOLUME 85 LITRES LESS 5 LITRES TRUB = 80 LITRES

FILL 2 X 23 LITRE CUBES
FILL 2 X 17 LITRE CUBES


----------



## drsmurto

4000th post and it's in this thread about my favourite beer. 

Belted out another Landlord last night, this one to go on the handpump at the AABC clubnight here in Adelaide.

Super smooth brewday after work, 4 hours from mash in to putting the fermenter into the fridge after pitching yeast and aerating. Must do this after work brewing more often. HLT on a timer makes life so easy.

Slight change, out of Fuggles so used EKG to bitter. 97% MO and 3% simpsons dark crystal.


----------



## JDW81

Dr,

Gonna bash up a batch of this on the weekend, will be a NC version.

Just wanted to check hop schedule adjustments for NC. 

Fuggles @ 60 mins (or should I move it to 40mins to adjust for no chill?)

EKG into the cube as the 20 minute addition.

SG as a hop tea post fermentation. Question regarding the tea; how much water should I use (20l batch), and should I chill it before I chuck it into the fermenter? 

Cheers,

JD.


----------



## drsmurto

JDW81 said:


> Dr,
> 
> Gonna bash up a batch of this on the weekend, will be a NC version.
> 
> Just wanted to check hop schedule adjustments for NC.
> 
> Fuggles @ 60 mins (or should move it to 40mins to adjust for no chill?)
> 
> EKG into the cube as the 20 minute addition.
> 
> SG as a hop tea post fermentation. Question regarding the tea; how much water should I use (20l batch), and should I chill it before I chuck it into the fermenter?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> JD.



No need to shift the 20 min addition of EKG. Leave that as is. Same goes for the 60 min addition.

The only modification needed for NC is the flameout addition and only because you'll lose the aroma. 

For the styrian hop tea, 250mL of boiling water should be enough. Let it steep for 5-10 mins and then strain into the fermenter after primary ferment is done. No need to cool before adding, 250mL of hot water will make next to no difference to 20L of 20C wort/beer.


----------



## JDW81

Brilliant, thanks for that.

Will use this one to break in my new brew kettle.

Cheers, 

JD


----------



## stux

I should be getting my 1469 soon,

Is

"
97% Golden Promise
3% Simpsons Medium Crystal
Fuggles to 30 IBU
1g/L EKG at 20
1g/L Stryians at 20
Wyeast 1469
"

Is this the recommended recipe?

Simpson's Medium Crystal,

http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/default.asp?CID=119

Could get the Simpson's Heritage Crystal from CraftBrewer...

Alternativey, TF Medium Crystal, to go with my TFFMGP
http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=4074

Seems to be the same EBC as the Heritage Crystal, 140-160

Or should I go with something else, like CaraAroma?


----------



## drsmurto

Yes, that's the recipe.

I use Simpsons crystal as that is what i have plenty of.

I've also used carabohemian and caraaroma, both worked fine.


----------



## JDW81

DrSmurto said:


> Yes, that's the recipe.
> 
> I use Simpsons crystal as that is what i have plenty of.
> 
> I've also used carabohemian and caraaroma, both worked fine.




Just punched your updated recipe into beersmith and had a question regarding colour. In the original recipe the EBC is 19. With 97% Golden Promise (which I'm assuming is a 2 row UK base malt) and 3% Simpson's 120L crystal (236 EBC) beersmith is only showing 16.1EBC.

If I up the EBC to 19 I end up with 95.4% GP and 4.6% Crystal.

Is the new recipe s'pose to be the same colour as the original?

IBU calculations are spot on (36.2) 

I'm only fairly new to AG so please excuse my limited knowledge when it comes to the finer points of brewing.

Cheers again,

JD


----------



## drsmurto

I'd personally struggle to detect the difference between 16 and 19 EBC in a beer. 

I dont see the colour as being overly critical.

As for the IBU, i prefer 30IBU for this beer. 36 to me will seem out of balance.


----------



## Mikedub

Cracked a bottle after 10 days, this is a big arsed malty fruity beer, delicious, nice one Dr
How is it possible a beer can be sitting pretty after 10 days where normally its 8 weeks till they start to settle in?


----------



## maxymoo

manticle said:


> I recently used your hopping schedule with 100% TF Golden promise and the wort caramelisation trick.
> 
> Still pretty pale (looks beautiful and clear though) but having trouble not drinking it. Batch nearly gone



Hey Manticle, where do you get your Thomas Fawcett malts? Grain and Grape only have Bairds, Crisp and Simpsons for MO and GP malts, but I'm pretty keen to try out the TF's.


----------



## manticle

I got mine sent down for craftbrewer specifically to try a landlord tribute.

Recent landlord-ish thing used simpsons marris instead so I can see the difference.

No other malts in either, similar hopping schedule to the good Dr's, bit of wort caramelisation, 1469.


----------



## Lord Raja Goomba I

TF FM is vastly different to Bairds.

I prefer Bairds for some beers, TF FM for others. In a landlord it'd definitely be TF FM.

And that's with a base Perle Ale malt - MO would be even more different.

Goomba


----------



## maxymoo

manticle said:


> Recent landlord-ish thing used simpsons marris instead so I can see the difference.



Let us know how it turns out, my last two brew's have been dr smurto's landlord, first time with crisp MO, second time with simpson MO, (ringwood yeast both times) unfortunately the first one got drunk before the second was ready so can't do a sidebyside, they were both yummy!

i've got some 1469 now and i've got a baird's GP landlord in the fermenter at the moment, we'll see how it turns out? it's a partial mash my first one actually, normally i do AG, but i'm sick of waiting 2 hours for the wort to boil on my crappy electric stove, also my pot's too small!


----------



## Mikedub

I am so friggen happy how this recipe has turned out, my best most balanced brew yet, big frothy head, clean as a whistle, the crystal sits in there perfectly and the Ringwood yeast is delicious, one thing Ive noticed, the aroma has dropped away quite a bit after 3 weeks in the bottle, my late additions were done in a mini boil and added to the fermenter with the cube when pitching the next day, wondering if this is why?


----------



## JDW81

Mikedub said:


> I am so friggen happy how this recipe has turned out, my best most balanced brew yet, big frothy head, clean as a whistle, the crystal sits in there perfectly and the Ringwood yeast is delicious, one thing Ive noticed, the aroma has dropped away quite a bit after 3 weeks in the bottle, my late additions were done in a mini boil and added to the fermenter with the cube when pitching the next day, wondering if this is why?




I've just put a second batch of this into the fermenter, with the first batch in bottles conditioning away. The clarity of it is amazing, its a beautiful colour and it tasted great going into the bottle. Batch number two is happily fermenting away at 19C with a healthy krausen after just 12 hours. 

My mash temps were way out on both batches due to some thermometer issues (which I've now solved) and some adjustments which I hadn't made for new gear. I can't wait to do a side by side comparison to see how they turn out.

I did however end up using London ESB yeast (1968) as that was what was available at the time (impatience got the better of me).

Looking forward to cracking the first bottle in a few weeks (talk about seriously delayed gratification). Watch this space.

Cheers,

JD


----------



## maxymoo

Mikedub said:


> one thing Ive noticed, the aroma has dropped away quite a bit after 3 weeks in the bottle, my late additions were done in a mini boil and added to the fermenter with the cube when pitching the next day, wondering if this is why?



that's funny, exact same experience with me, (i did the miniboil too) maybe it's just the nature of the beast, gotta drink it fresh?


----------



## Dazza88

Hope to brew this one next . . .


----------



## drsmurto

I'm still drinking the batch i brewed for the AABC clubnight 3 weeks ago. Been in the keg for 4 weeks.

The hops have faded slightly but not so much that i am not enjoying it.


----------



## Bribie G

Mikedub said:


> Cracked a bottle after 10 days, this is a big arsed malty fruity beer, delicious, nice one Dr
> How is it possible a beer can be sitting pretty after 10 days where normally its 8 weeks till they start to settle in?



That's what they are "genetically engineered" to do  
Typical example of a "running beer" - up until late Victorian times UK breweries would hold huge stockpiles of maturing beer and sell them to the pubs. These were huge beers, often around 6-7% ABV and even four pints would give you a good seeing to. 
Then the breweries went on a huge pub-buying and building spree and built up big "empires" of tied houses run by tenants. The style of beer changed significantly, gravities dropped and they would brew at the brewery, transfer to casks after a week or two and send the half-finished beer off to the tied houses to be finished off in the cellar and served through hand pumps at the bar, or on gravity straight from the cask to the glass. It takes a fair bit of skill to bring the beer on, then it must be drunk within a few days as it starts to stale once air enters the cask.
These beers became known as running beers, as opposed to the old keeping beers. So once they have had a week or so in the cask, they are at their prime :icon_cheers: 
I drink all mine on tap now - I find that if I keep an archive bottle it is tasting a bit dull once it's past a month.


----------



## Florian

Brewed a batch of a variation of this yesterday and just stepped the 1469 up to 2.5L, which should be ready to pitch tomorrow.

Now, I've waded through the last 6 or so pages, but couldn't find much info on ferment temp. I remember reading something about 16, but then the recommended range for the yeast is 18-22. 

So what's the 'best' temp for this yeast in a TTL? 
Obviously it depends on what I'm after, but brewing mainly with lager yeasts I haven't got a real feel yet for 'high temp' yeasts, so input is appreciated. 

Cheers,
Florian


----------



## Bribie G

Florian, the "cruncher" is how faithful this yeast is to traditional Yorkshire Square Yeasts. 

If you read this essay, and convert to Celsius you come up with the 16 range. 

Yorkshire Squares
By Peter Robinson
Brewery History Society Journal

Yorkshire beer has long held a fine reputation for its quality, well beyond the boundaries of the country. Historically, this may in no small part be due to the almost unique use by the countys brewers of the Yorkshire Stone Square method of fermentation; a system which only spread to a very limited extent to the counties of Lancashire and Nottinghamshire, but not, seemingly, elsewhere. 

The method adopted almost universally throughout the rest of the country is known as the skimming system. In this system, the head of yeast formed during the beers fermentation is skimmed off its surface into outlets at the side of the fermentation vessels. 

The only other truly regional fermentation system is the Burton Union System, in which the fermentation takes place in long rows of interconnected casks, known as Unions. The particular suitability of the Union System to the production of pale and strong ales led to its almost complete adoption by the brewers of Burton-on-Trent, though brewers from other areas may have shared in contributing to its ultimate high level of development. 



Two sources attribute the invention of the "stone square" system of brewing to Timothy Bentley of the Lockwood Brewery near Huddersfield: in a brief history of Bentley & Shaw Ltd., the company founded by Timothy Bentley, and a history of Bentleys Yorkshire Breweries Ltd., founded by one of his sons, Henry Bentley. The Lockwood Brewery history also suggests that Timothy Bentley was acquainted with Doctor Joseph Priestley, or had at least made full use of the scientists work relating to the brewing industry. 

Sigsworth, in considering the possibility of a collaboration between the two men concerning the development of the stone square system, states that there is a close resemblance between the experiments conducted by Priestley and the principles upon which the stone square system works, in particular the impregnation of the beer with carbon dioxide. He concludes that the work conducted by Priestley whilst living close to the Meadow Lane Brewery of Jacques and Co., Leeds, is adequately substantiated, but that the Bentleys connection with the scientist is attested only by the reference in the two advertising brochures, published at least a century later. 



The yeast used in the Yorkshire system is unusual in that it acts particularly slowly and requires frequent rousing and aerating if it is to work properly. This action is due in part to the yeasts strongly top-fermenting qualities, which cause it to rise rapidly to the surface of the fermenting wort and thereby reduce its ability to perform its task of converting sugar into alcohol and carbon dioxide. 

The beers produced by the system, however, "drink very full for their gravities, and which, since they retain large quantities of carbon dioxide, are full of life." The effervescent nature of the beers brewed by the stone square system help to protect them from airborne infection during fermentation; it may also offer an explanation for another, peculiarly Yorkshire tradition, that of dispensing beer by means of handpumps fitted with autovac equipment, utilizing a very tight sparkle. 

The agitating action of the handpump displaces much of the dissolved carbon dioxide gas and at the same time introduces air into the beer. It is the air which produces the smooth texture to the beer and supports the long lasting, creamy head, so beloved of all serious beer drinkers in the Yorkshire area. 



The stone square is so called because the fermentation vessels themselves were once constructed from large slabs of hard local stone, such as were the products of the quarries of the Elland flagstones. This type of stone is, even today, much prized as a paving material for the streets of London. 

The square consists of four large slabs of stone for the sides and a fifth for the base, all being fastened together by means of recesses cut into the stone and secured laterally by iron bolts. A second square, about three or four inches less in height, is constructed so as to surround the first, leaving a narrow gap of about two inches all round the external surface of the first square. Into this space either warm or cold water can be introduced thereby acting as an attemperator; surplus water simply flowing away over the top. 



Above the inner square is placed another horizontal slab surmounted by a second chamber; of the same area as the outer square beneath, about thirty inches deep and constructed in a similar manner. In the centre of the base of the upper chamber (which acts as a yeast trough) there is a man hole of eighteen inches diameter, surrounded by a stone collar of about six inches in height, into which fits a stone lid with a handle. 

Close to one of the corners of the covering slab are located two valves of about three inches diameter to which chains are attached. A long pipe extends beneath one of the valves to within a few inches of the bottom of the lower chamber; it is known as the "organ-pipe." 

The whole massive weight of the structure is carried on large stone pillars, and the chambers themselves are rendered watertight by the application of water resistant cement to all the joints. An additional item required for the use of stone squares is a simple pump of three inches diameter and six inch stroke, which is used to pump wort from the lower to the upper chamber. 



W.J. Sykes, in his book the Principles and Practice of Brewing, gives the following description of the operation of the Yorkshire stone square: 

The wort is pitched with one to twelve pounds of yeast per barrel at a temperature of 58 to 59 degrees Fahrenheit. The valve at the upper end of the organ-pipe is closed and a portion of the wort run into the upper chamber; the yeast is then thoroughly roused (vigorously mixed) in with this, the valve opened, and the mixed yeast and wort allowed to flow into the lower chamber. 

When the whole of the wort has been collected and pitched, it is left undisturbed for 36 hours, at the end of which it should have risen to about 62 degrees Fahrenheit. It is now roused for the first time, the rousing being repeated every two hours during the next twelve hours, at the expiration of which (48 hours after pitching), pumping commences. 

Before starting the pump, the valve of the organ-pipe is shut and as much wort is dumped into the upper chamber as is delivered by fifteen strokes of the pump; it is then well roused, so as to mix in the yeast which has risen through the man hole, after which the valve is opened and the wort allowed to flow back into the lower chamber. 

Pumping and rousing are repeated every two hours, the number of strokes of the pump being increased at each repetition of the operations, beginning with fifteen strokes for the first pumping, and increasing by ten at each pumping. This is continued until the wort has reached a gravity of some 1 to 11 degrees higher than that required to finish. 

During the whole period of fermentation the temperature of the wort is kept within the necessary limits by means of the attemperating jacket. When the pumping and rousing stage is passed the organ-pipe valve is closed and the yeast which rises through the man hole removed every four hours. After each removal the valve is opened for a short time to allow the beer which has drained from the yeast to run down into the lower compartment. 

When, by observing the surface of the beer, the yeast appears fully removed, the temperature of the beer is gradually brought down by attemperating to 60 degrees Fahrenheit, or a little lower. The man hole is then covered with the cap, and the contents of the square allowed to remain undisturbed for two days, by which time the beer is ready for racking into trade casks.Stone squares of the type described above, were probably in use from the latter years of the eighteenth century and were well established by the 1830s. 

A lease taken out by Samuel Webster in May 1838 describes the working room of the Fountain Head Brewery as containing three double cisterns, with a cistern on top of each to hold yeast, three large cocks and pipes for water. By the beginning of the present century, slate began to replace stone as the material for construction of squares, an internal attemperator being used instead of a surrounding water jacket. 

By the 1920s, although very expensive, aluminum began to be introduced for the construction of fermenting vessels. The new material was much easier to keep clean and maintain than either stone or slate, and it did not suffer from the same restrictions in dimensions. With the new material came changes in the design of the squares, the upper yeast chamber disappearing on the grounds of cost and easier cleaning. 

Many breweries, however, continued to rouse and aerate their beers as had been done with the stone square system, but the yeast trough was replaced by the more commonplace skimming system. 

One of the last remaining users of Yorkshire squares, though of slate construction, are Samuel Smith of Tadcaster who pride themselves on the traditional nature of their brewing techniques. Near neighbours, John Smith, have retained a single stone square, along with its ancillary equipment, which is on display in a museum type gallery in their new brewhouse, formerly the square room. 

One or two sets of stone squares have survived on the sites of former breweries in a derelict state, no doubt owing to the expense and difficulty of removing them, and await the attentions of brewery and industrial historians. 


Although Wyeast recommend the higher temp range , I always go around the 16, but let it rise to around 18 towards the end of the ferm. Historically it was often noted that Yorkshire ales were fermented cooler than down South and if you've ever been to Yorkshire you will understand why  
I'm currently running through a Yorkshire Gold, should be ready for next BABBs if you'd like a slurp.


----------



## stux

Been running mine at 17C

It's currently at 1.013 after 10 days... I did a forced ferment which went to 1.011 before I needed my hydrometer back 

Wondering if I should now rouse :-/

Or just let it sit for a few more days


----------



## drsmurto

18C is where i run my ferments with this yeast.

I find that any higher and the banana esters start kicking in.


----------



## raven19

Stux said:


> Or just let it sit for a few more days



Patience!

Or start raising the temp by 1 degree per day for a 3 days or so.


----------



## Silo Ted

Brewed this on the weekend (now in a cube) and will pitch in a few days when my starters big and bouncy. A question for those who have used the Whitelabs "Yorkshire Square" platinum strain, what fermentation temps would be appropriate for this beer? 

I have neither used this yeast before nor ever tasted a genuine TTL.


----------



## Bribie G

Post 349 has the historical information. If the Whitelabs strain is faithful to the actual yeasts used in stone square brewing, I'd go no higher than 17


----------



## Silo Ted

Not sure of the strain origin on the WLP037, despite the name. The most often used origin charts are the one documented by the BJCP's Kristen England (what's in a name, hey) as appearing on the MrMalty site, and does state that the WY1469 is the TT strain, however entirely omits WLP037 in the Whitelabs chart, so too does fail to mention a comparative product WHitelabs own site even fails to mention origin. Alas, with scant information available, I will treat it as 1469 mentioned across the pages of this thread.


----------



## felten

I have read on the internets that 037 could be samuel smiths strain.


----------



## jbowers

Just having my first sips of my keg of this. Good grief it's good. My 3rd AG beer, and it's absolutely gorgeous. Got a pint of the real deal at the moment and to be honest, I almost prefer mine. It tastes fresher. The malt is more pronounced making it seem less bitter, perhaps it is 5 IBU short of where it needs to be, but it's damn close. The hop profile is less herbal/spicy and a bit more fruit/vanilla in mine. But seriously, really really close to the original. Back to back sips of each it's hard to spot the differences.

With a couple of tweaks (some EKG late as well as styrian) I reckon this will become a house beer. The malt profile is so beautiful for a low-ish ABV beer.


----------



## jbowers

One thing comes to mind. Anyone try dry hopping some Styrian in the keg/cask for this beer?


----------



## drsmurto

jbowers said:


> One thing comes to mind. Anyone try dry hopping some Styrian in the keg/cask for this beer?



Yes, I have been known to put a plug of styrians into a keg of this. :icon_drool2:


----------



## JDW81

jbowers said:


> One thing comes to mind. Anyone try dry hopping some Styrian in the keg/cask for this beer?



I dry hopped my last batch as I had about 30g of goldings which I needed to get rid of. Only a subtle difference to the normal version, but bloody tasty. :icon_drool2:


----------



## argon

DrSmurto said:


> Yes, I have been known to put a plug of styrians into a keg of this. :icon_drool2:


a Styrian plug weighed down so it sits next to the pick up tube is a wonderful thing :icon_drool2:


----------



## drsmurto

argon said:


> a Styrian plug weighed down so it sits next to the pick up tube is a wonderful thing :icon_drool2:



I bought a number of these for just that purpose. They conveniently hold 1 plug perfectly!


----------



## RdeVjun

Hmm, Dr S I've often wondered about the tea ball for a plug in the keg, you don't find that the plug swelling (or rather being constrained from doing so) inside such a small enclosure can lead to poor transfer of the essentials? When ever I've rehydrated a plug the hops swelled to much, much more than the volume of one of those, but if you feel that it works and I can find my tea ball, I'll just go and open the lid of a cornie out back and drop one in right away!


----------



## drsmurto

RdeVjun said:


> Hmm, Dr S I've often wondered about the tea ball for a plug in the keg, you don't find that the plug swelling (or rather being constrained from doing so) inside such a small enclosure can lead to poor transfer of the essentials? When ever I've rehydrated a plug the hops swelled to much, much more than the volume of one of those, but if you feel that it works and I can find my tea ball, I'll just go and open the lid of a cornie out back and drop one in right away!



Has always worked fine for me. 

The only time i have come undone is when i literally dropped the teaball in and it came undone when it hit the bottom. So i added some fishing wire to it to lower it gently to the bottom.

Never had it expand and open the teaball.


----------



## humulus

Dr S just finished off your "landlord" #4 i put 60g of Simpsons imperial malt in,gave it a nice bready/biscuit flavour,probably not to style,but very nice!
Those hop balls are hard to find C.B dont stock them anymore! might try G&G. Stryian plug in the keg sounds :icon_drool2: 
Landlord#5 is fermenting away!!
Cheers


----------



## drsmurto

humulus said:


> Dr S just finished off your "landlord" #4 i put 60g of Simpsons imperial malt in,gave it a nice bready/biscuit flavour,probably not to style,but very nice!
> Those hop balls are hard to find C.B dont stock them anymore! might try G&G. Stryian plug in the keg sounds :icon_drool2:
> Landlord#5 is fermenting away!!
> Cheers



Teas.com.au sell them.


----------



## RdeVjun

DrSmurto said:


> Has always worked fine for me.
> 
> The only time i have come undone is when i literally dropped the teaball in and it came undone when it hit the bottom. So i added some fishing wire to it to lower it gently to the bottom.
> 
> Never had it expand and open the teaball.


Ta, many thanks for that DrS. :icon_cheers: 
Yeah, also had visions of the ball opening and hops cones going everywhere and doing their work brilliantly, then promptly migrating to the beer out inlet for a world of pain- a keg full of awesome DSL and no means to dispense it!  
Can't find that tea ball here anywhere though  , so in the morning I'll slip by the local tea merchants for a new one (have seen them there before), occasionally see them at two buck stores, also Asian groceries and the likes are worth a look.


----------



## mikeintmba

I bought a couple of tea balls from a kitchen shop for the purpose of adding hops to the keg but found after a few months use the hinge rotted? and the balls were no longer useful. I havent bothered since to replace them or try anything else. Luckily they broke while washing them after use but I had visions of them opening while full of hops in the keg and blocking the pickup.



That was my experience anyway.

Merry Christmas


----------



## doon

Bugger me just thought I would say just kegged my attempt at this and have to say its one of the best beers I have made! 

Love 1469! My go at a hop tea didn't work next time I make this I will dry hop instead! 

Awesome recipe smurto!


----------



## manticle

maxymoo said:


> Let us know how it turns out,



Both good, TF Golden promise preferred.


----------



## beerbog

Just about to chuck down my first LAndlord. I have Simpsons GP, Heritage Crystal and a 2 week old pack of 1469 ready to go. Can't wait. :beerbang:


----------



## drsmurto

Gibbo1 said:


> Just about to chuck down my first LAndlord. I have Simpsons GP, Heritage Crystal and a 2 week old pack of 1469 ready to go. Can't wait. :beerbang:



Sounds perfect! :icon_drool2:


----------



## Darkman

DrSmurto said:


> Has always worked fine for me.
> 
> The only time i have come undone is when i literally dropped the teaball in and it came undone when it hit the bottom. So i added some fishing wire to it to lower it gently to the bottom.
> 
> Never had it expand and open the teaball.




Is the fishing line only used to lower the tea ball safely or do you remove the tea ball of hops from your keg after a period of time?


----------



## drsmurto

Darkman said:


> Is the fishing line only used to lower the tea ball safely or do you remove the tea ball of hops from your keg after a period of time?



Just to lower it.

Or you could be clever and put the teaball in the empty kega nd rack the beer on top of it but I've never been that clever


----------



## Darkman

DrSmurto said:


> Just to lower it.
> 
> Or you could be clever and put the teaball in the empty kega nd rack the beer on top of it but I've never been that clever



If you were that clever or organised wouldn't you just put the hop ball in the fermenter or is there a noticeable flavour difference between the two methods?

I've also noticed you grow your own Goldings and was wondering if you have ever used these in this recipe?


----------



## drsmurto

Darkman said:


> If you were that clever or organised wouldn't you just put the hop ball in the fermenter or is there a noticeable flavour difference between the two methods?
> 
> I've also noticed you grow your own Goldings and was wondering if you have ever used these in this recipe?



If i plan to dry hop then i do it in secondary, its only when i have the beer on tap and decide it needs more hop aroma that i use a teaball and that hasn't happened for a while now.

I did grow my own goldings but due to space constraints (not land area but the fact the chinook is taking over the entire garden) I removed the goldings last season and no longer grow it. When i did have goldings i used it in this recipe but didn't use stryian goldings as i wanted to get the flavour of just the homegrown goldings. They were nice, very different to EKG (more stonefruit flavours) but in the end I had to consolidate my hop plantation down to 2-3 varieties and it just couldn't compete with chinook and victoria.


----------



## MaltyHops

DrSmurto said:


> Just to lower it.
> 
> Or you could be clever and put the teaball in the empty kega nd rack the beer on top
> of it but I've never been that clever


Could attach to a fishing float?


----------



## .DJ.

MaltyHops said:


> Could attach to a fishing float?


but when the keg is empty wouldnt it be at the bottom?


----------



## Darkman

.DJ. said:


> but when the keg is empty wouldnt it be at the bottom?




I think the idea of the fishing line is to lower the tea ball gently to the bottom to prevent the ball opening up from the force of hitting the bottom. a float would work quite well.


----------



## BobtheBrewer

Dr S,
I am keen to try your (amended?) recipe. I BIAB and no chill. I have put some figures through Brew Mate but have a dillema. I add my hops into a hop bag and remove them from the wort before the no chill, so I don't tick the no chill box in Brew Mate. Should I still add the EKG and Stygians @ 20, or into the cube? I should probably have posted a question about whether or not to tick the box on the AG thread, and I will, but have been following you through 19 pages (over the last couple of days) and took the plunge. I hope this makes sense,
Bob


----------



## manticle

I have used the Doc's hopping schedule but with a different grist (100% golden promise, caramelised wort).

I no chill and don't make adjustments (admittely almost all of my recipes are designed by me and so I don't need to adjust no chilled recipes for no chill) BUT I added hops as suggested at times suggested. 

Got lovely flavour from the styrians, not too much bitterness and got my first ever place in a comp. Try it one way, try it again the next time differently and see what works for your palate.


----------



## BobtheBrewer

manticle said:


> I have used the Doc's hopping schedule but with a different grist (100% golden promise, caramelised wort).
> 
> I no chill and don't make adjustments (admittely almost all of my recipes are designed by me and so I don't need to adjust no chilled recipes for no chill) BUT I added hops as suggested at times suggested.
> 
> Got lovely flavour from the styrians, not too much bitterness and got my first ever place in a comp. Try it one way, try it again the next time differently and see what works for your palate.




Thanks Manticle, will do.


----------



## drsmurto

Birkdale Bob said:


> Dr S,
> I am keen to try your (amended?) recipe. I BIAB and no chill. I have put some figures through Brew Mate but have a dillema. I add my hops into a hop bag and remove them from the wort before the no chill, so I don't tick the no chill box in Brew Mate. Should I still add the EKG and Stygians @ 20, or into the cube? I should probably have posted a question about whether or not to tick the box on the AG thread, and I will, but have been following you through 19 pages (over the last couple of days) and took the plunge. I hope this makes sense,
> Bob



I personally would not make any adjustments to the recipe even if no chilling.

The hop schedule is Fuggles at 60, EKG at 20 and Styrians as 0. 

At flameout i add the hops and let them steep for 10-20 minutes before chilling so i would recommend not removing the hop bag for at least 10 mins after flameout.


----------



## BobtheBrewer

DrSmurto said:


> I personally would not make any adjustments to the recipe even if no chilling.
> 
> The hop schedule is Fuggles at 60, EKG at 20 and Styrians as 0.
> 
> At flameout i add the hops and let them steep for 10-20 minutes before chilling so i would recommend not removing the hop bag for at least 10 mins after flameout.




Thanks Doc. I noted the 0 min Styrian (where did I get Stygian from - stygian darkness?) in the recipe db but somewhere in those 19 pages I had changed it to 20 mins. I will definitely leave the 0 min hops to steep, perhaps give them their own hop bag. Craftbrewer are out of Styrian and recommended Aurora (super styrian) as an alternative. May have to give that a go or defer brewing,
Bob


----------



## brucearnold

So DrS, is the recipe in the DB up to date with the amendments you have made over time, or is this buried in the 19 pages that I have scanned through briefly from tiime to time?



manticle said:


> ...and got my first ever place in a comp....



Manticle, last is a place in a comp... I hope that this was your first first in a comp.


----------



## drsmurto

Birkdale Bob said:


> Thanks Doc. I noted the 0 min Styrian (where did I get Stygian from - stygian darkness?) in the recipe db but somewhere in those 19 pages I had changed it to 20 mins. I will definitely leave the 0 min hops to steep, perhaps give them their own hop bag. Craftbrewer are out of Styrian and recommended Aurora (super styrian) as an alternative. May have to give that a go or defer brewing,
> Bob



Styrian Goldings are available here - Link. I would highly recommend not subbing them.




BruceA said:


> So DrS, is the recipe in the DB up to date with the amendments you have made over time, or is this buried in the 19 pages that I have scanned through briefly from tiime to time?



The version that is currently favoured (at least by me) is;

97% Thomas Fawcett Maris Otter
3% medium/dark crystal (Simpsons is delish)
Fuggles @ 60 to total IBU of 30
EKG 1g/L @ 20
Styrian Goldings 1.5g/L @ 0
Wyeast 1469 West Yorkshire

I really should just update the recipe as the original is from when the Thomas Fawcetts MO wasn't readily available.


----------



## drsmurto

Recipe now updated in the DB to what it has evolved to over the past 3 years thanks largely to the input from the AHB community - group hug. :huh:


----------



## yum beer

aahhh, all warm and tingly,



maybe just pissed..


----------



## brucearnold

DrSmurto said:


> Recipe now updated in the DB to what it has evolved to over the past 3 years thanks largely to the input from the AHB community - group hug. :huh:




Thanks! With all the good words about this recipe I am keen to run it through the mill.


----------



## vortex

DrSmurto said:


> Recipe now updated in the DB to what it has evolved to over the past 3 years thanks largely to the input from the AHB community - group hug. :huh:



Just like in the Open Source software world, many people brewing and reviewing a recipe and contributing improvements, means a better overall product for everyone  This is one aspect of Home Brewing I absolutely love


----------



## bullsneck

manticle said:


> I have used the Doc's hopping schedule but with a different grist (100% golden promise, caramelised wort).
> 
> I no chill and don't make adjustments (admittely almost all of my recipes are designed by me and so I don't need to adjust no chilled recipes for no chill) BUT I added hops as suggested at times suggested.
> 
> Got lovely flavour from the styrians, not too much bitterness and got my first ever place in a comp. Try it one way, try it again the next time differently and see what works for your palate.



Did you happen to step mash the landlord or just go with a single infusion?

Need to use up a 1318 London Ale III. The yeasties will love this wort I'd say.


----------



## manticle

Can't remember. I step pretty much everything these days. Minimum is a 60s rest of choice, 72 glycoprotein rest followed my mashout but certainly would be less complicated than my belgians.

@Bruce - only just saw your post. 3rd place out of 20ish entrants. Doesn't mean diddly really - just any previous comps I'd alway come middle of the range so third was exciting for me. One of the judges was AU first National BJCP Judge so it made me feel proud for a few moments.


----------



## merlin032

Brewing this one as we speak thanks for the recipe - fyi craftbrewer has styrian goldings in stock at the moment, ordered some last week.


----------



## insane_rosenberg

Just wanted to post a big thanks to the Doc. Drinking this one on tap at the moment. Great drop :icon_cheers: 

The LHBS was out of Maris Otter so I ended up with Golden Promise. First time I've used either but the Golden Promise sure makes a nice beer!

Haven't had a house ale as I'm always trying new things. But this could be 'the one'.


----------



## Bribie G

Golden Promise from Thomas Fawcett is, I believe, the exact malt that TT use although I heard that they get it kilned a bit darker, so they can claim the beer to be 100% GP.

I think the good doc used Maris Otter because, well, he'd never tried GP and stuck with what he was comfortable with. On the other hand, I've never used MO.  
Might get a sack next time.


----------



## drsmurto

Bribie G said:


> Golden Promise from Thomas Fawcett is, I believe, the exact malt that TT use although I heard that they get it kilned a bit darker, so they can claim the beer to be 100% GP.
> 
> I think the good doc used Maris Otter because, well, he'd never tried GP and stuck with what he was comfortable with. On the other hand, I've never used MO.
> Might get a sack next time.



Recently bought a bag of both Fawcetts GP and MO. I have brewed 1 Landlord with GP and loved it.

Couldn't get GP when i started trying to brew TTL so used MO and it evolved from there.

Yet to brew a 100% GP variant though, it's on my to do list.


----------



## mckenry

Kegged my first crack at this one today. Hydro sample was very nice. There is a 'wine' type of background flavour. Is this what to expect? Maybe its the Styrians? It is however very nice, so looking fwd to this being carbed. Just an interesting hint in the background.


----------



## iralosavic

DrSmurto said:


> Recently bought a bag of both Fawcetts GP and MO. I have brewed 1 Landlord with GP and loved it.
> 
> Couldn't get GP when i started trying to brew TTL so used MO and it evolved from there.
> 
> Yet to brew a 100% GP variant though, it's on my to do list.



G'day Dr. What's your latest recipe?

I've got the following keyed in:

97% UK MO
3% UK Dark Crystal (200-250EBC)

1.5g/L Fuggles @ 60
1g/L EKG @ 20
1.5g/L Styrian G @ 0


Cheers,


----------



## RdeVjun

Yeah, having tried both Bairds and TF GP, MO, Halcyon and Perle over about 40 batches of TTL variants, IMO nothing quite beats TF GP. :icon_drool2: I just hope they've sorted their sack liner issues as I have one on order for brewing loads of this very beer...


----------



## manticle

Bribie - you're an expat pom who brews like a madman. How can you have never tried Maris Otter?

Simpson's maris, TF golden promise and Dingemans Pilsner are probably my favourite ever base malts.

As mentioned earlier, the TF GP with the Doc's hopping schedule makes a superb beer (I caramelise instead of the crystal addition - comes out much lighter than TTL so if you want the colour, stick with the Doc's but use the GP).


----------



## iralosavic

manticle said:


> Bribie - you're an expat pom who brews like a madman. How can you have never tried Maris Otter?
> 
> Simpson's maris, TF golden promise and Dingemans Pilsner are probably my favourite ever base malts.
> 
> As mentioned earlier, the TF GP with the Doc's hopping schedule makes a superb beer (I caramelise instead of the crystal addition - comes out much lighter than TTL so if you want the colour, stick with the Doc's but use the GP).



Thanks for the tip re a reduction in leiu of crystal. I figure I'll be more inclined to do it when I'm not ordering grain by the recipe and carry enough base malts to just be able to whip up a landlord on a whimsy without the need for any crystal. I'd personally be interested to see/taste the difference, so I might do it both ways eventually.

So what are the notable/superior characteristics of the Dingemans pilsner malt?


----------



## RdeVjun

Yes manticle, Bribie never having brewed with MO- you'd swear he's been living under a rock, but we happen to know otherwise! I can relate though, there's only so many malts you can brew with, particularly while getting them by the sack, oh and even worse when adulterating them with adjunct! 

mckenry, the wine character could be just the lower OG (guessing, it is usually quite dry) and maybe a bit of the stonefruit/ fruity esters, perhaps in conjunction with the Styrians? Not that unusual a finding though, sometimes I have really wondered about TTLs at packaging but in the vast majority of cases they improve out of sight thereafter. I find that it lifts dramatically with some CO2 in solution and a few days chilling, but it is the sort of beer that should be very palatable when young and then rounds out brilliantly after a couple of months, so any day now you should be pleased as punch. :icon_cheers:


----------



## manticle

iralosavic said:


> So what are the notable/superior characteristics of the Dingemans pilsner malt?



Bit OT so I'd be happy to carry on via PM or another thread if this doesn't answer the question.

I use it for Belgians, it's a belgian malt and when I use it, I seem to get the signature character of belgian beer that I like - a honey malt sweetness and slightly greater complexity that the same recipe using weyermans (which is a great malt) or JW (which I would never again use for European styles).

I do decoct and step mash pretty much every belgian type beer but even doing that with the weyerman doesn't give quite the same character.

Sorry for the OT Doc S.


----------



## RdeVjun

RdeVjun said:


> I have really wondered about TTLs at packaging


A thousand pardons, that should be DSL but its too late to edit. What on earth was I thinking...


----------



## Bribie G

I'd love to get Simpsons Maris Otter, but it's not available hereabouts in the bulk buys. Same goes for JW malts as well, I expect there's only so much a retailer can stock. 
Simpsons is from my part of the world.


----------



## Feldon

Bribie G said:


> I'd love to get Simpsons Maris Otter, but it's not available hereabouts in the bulk buys. Same goes for JW malts as well, I expect there's only so much a retailer can stock.
> Simpsons is from my part of the world.
> 
> View attachment 53539



Is that Dartmoor or Wormwood Scrubs?


----------



## Bribie G

Bamburgh Castle, the first location in the British Isles where English was spoken  Not that ye'd naa hoo te taalk it me bonny lad B)


----------



## sean_0

Made this a few weeks back with 97% Simpson's Golden Promise, 3% Simpsons medium crystal. It's been a triumph from start to finish. The mash smelled amazing, all fermenter samples were outstanding (and probably taken far too frequently but I was really enjoying them), and the final product is delicious. Can't believe I didn't make it sooner as Landlord is one of my all time favourites, but several badly oxidised bottles I have had here in Oz had put me off it a bit. Now I remember why I love it so much.


----------



## drsmurto

sean_0 said:


> Made this a few weeks back with 97% Simpson's Golden Promise, 3% Simpsons medium crystal. It's been a triumph from start to finish. The mash smelled amazing, all fermenter samples were outstanding (and probably taken far too frequently but I was really enjoying them), and the final product is delicious. Can't believe I didn't make it sooner as Landlord is one of my all time favourites, but several badly oxidised bottles I have had here in Oz had put me off it a bit. Now I remember why I love it so much.



Will be brewing another Landlord this weekend and will be using the 97% GP and 3% dark crystal grist with the usual hopping schedule. It's taking me a long time to come around to using GP but I am now an addict fan


----------



## stux

DrSmurto said:


> Will be brewing another Landlord this weekend and will be using the 97% GP and 3% dark crystal grist with the usual hopping schedule. It's taking me a long time to come around to using GP but I am now an addict fan



Going to be doing a triple batch of my version of your landlord tomorrow 

I'm using up my leftovers of MO so it will be 47/47% TFFM MO/GP

3% Wey Carabohemian
2% Simpson Heritage Crystal
1% Simpson Choc

I find the colour is spot on and the carabohemain adds an acrid complexity which I get in the original.

Fairly standard Fuggles/EKG/Styrians hop bill, but planning to amp up the late styrians, perhaps some dryhopping as the flavour was awesome last time and I wouldn't have minded more


----------



## Spiesy

going to give this a run up the ol' flagpole next weekend... thanks for the recipe, I'll report back with findings in a couple of weeks.

I went with GP instead of MO.


----------



## Spiesy

Quick question (and possibly a stupid one)... if it's a 90-minute boil, but there's no hop additions for the first 30mins (first hop addition being a 60min.) - what is to be gained by boiling for an additional 30mins without any hops?


----------



## beerdrinkingbob

slight caramelisation would be my bet but could be wrong..

I have read this thread before and don't feel like going through it again, can anyone tell me what the latest recipe is?


cheers BDB


----------



## Spiesy

oops... I went with the recipe on the first page (in the database), assuming it would have been updated if there were any improvements... well, you know what they say about assumptions...

EDIT: look like it was indeed updated in Feb 2012... although judging by recent posts from DrSmurto, the recipe may be getting a switch to GP soon - at the very least, GP has the endorsement of many members.


----------



## Spiesy

sorry for yet another post, but after reading this http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=64542, I have a question: 

is this recipe based on using the no chill method?

just wondering if I should adjust my hop amounts as logically pointed out in the thread linked above. 

cheers.


----------



## Camo1234

Spiesy said:


> sorry for yet another post, but after reading this http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=64542, I have a question:
> 
> is this recipe based on using the no chill method?
> 
> just wondering if I should adjust my hop amounts as logically pointed out in the thread linked above.
> 
> cheers.




Mate, the good doctor does not No Chill so the recipes are for chilling.... but having followed a few of Dr S recipes I have found that he leaves the wort for a good 20mins before chilling I have left the hop schedule as is in a few variants and I chill and still happy with the result... My tip is to go with the standard schedule and adjust as you wish in later attempts.


----------



## drsmurto

I do 90 min boils for a few reasons, the main one being I feel i get a better hot break by boiling quite vigorously for 30 mins before adding hops.

The other advantage of boiling for the extra 30 mins is the extra few litres of wort required which means i sparge a little bit more and get slighlty higher efficiency.

You will also get slightly more caramelisation. 

I do a minimum of 90 min boil for all my beers, 120 min for big beers like BW or RIS.

Re no chill. All my recipes with late hops are designed with the 15-20 min extra after flameout to allow aroma hops to steep, time for the whirlpool to pack the break and hop material into a nice cone in the centre of the kettle and me time to setup the chiller, sanitise it, hoses and fermenter.

Anyone who adjusts my recipes for no chill will undershoot their bitterness (calculated on BS1 or 2 using tinseth).

Current recipe is the one listed in the recipeDB - MO or GP is fine, i like both but make sure you are using the Thomas Fawcetts floor malted versions. I updated it a few months ago as i stopped using munich/choc combo years ago when the TF malts became available.


----------



## Spiesy

thank you for the replies Camo and DrSmurto. I have indeed got the Thomas Fawcett Floor Malted GP on order, and very much looking forward to making and drinking this beer.

I will be BIAG'ing... if I normally allow 10% evaporation loss of water for the 60min boil, I'm guessing I'll just allow 15% for the 90mins - keep your recipe as is, and see how it turns out. I'll be back..


----------



## SJW

Spiesy said:


> thank you for the replies Camo and DrSmurto. I have indeed got the Thomas Fawcett Floor Malted GP on order, and very much looking forward to making and drinking this beer.
> 
> I will be BIAG'ing... if I normally allow 10% evaporation loss of water for the 60min boil, I'm guessing I'll just allow 15% for the 90mins - keep your recipe as is, and see how it turns out. I'll be back..



Why would your evaporation percentage increase with a longer boil? I would be leaving that alone, 10% is a good boil off rate.

I also agree with Dr, I now do 90min boil for all brews.

Steve


----------



## DarkFaerytale

since starting back up brewing i have been doing 60min boils , after recently making a heavy beer @ 60m and being pretty unimpressed with the result of left over gunk. i'm going back to 90 min boils. 

carry on, top thread. i'll get around to brewing this one day soon

-Phill


----------



## mckenry

mckenry said:


> Kegged my first crack at this one today. Hydro sample was very nice. There is a 'wine' type of background flavour. Is this what to expect? Maybe its the Styrians? It is however very nice, so looking fwd to this being carbed. Just an interesting hint in the background.




Update.
No wine flavour at all. This beer is a 'will do again' beer.
BTW - I used JW Pils as the base. I do with everything as I like to make lagers and cant justify using different ale malts as bases.
Happy for someone to send me one made with GP or something else as base for comparison :icon_cheers: 
I dont know what I am missing, but its a great beer with JW Pils as a base too.
Loving what Styrians brings. Might try them in a pils one day.


----------



## Spiesy

SJW said:


> Why would your evaporation percentage increase with a longer boil? I would be leaving that alone, 10% is a good boil off rate.



I'd imagine that if 10% of the water volume has evaporated after 60mins of boiling, even more so would evaporate if the boiling time is increased by 50%, surely?


----------



## drsmurto

Spiesy said:


> I'd imagine that if 10% of the water volume has evaporated after 60mins of boiling, even more so would evaporate if the boiling time is increased by 50%, surely?



The evaporation rate you use in your brewing software is a rate, in L/hour. Increasing the time of your boil increases the amount of water that boils off but the rate stays the same (technically it doesn't due to changes in volume, SG etc but for the purposes of this discussion let's say it does).


----------



## Spiesy

aaah... okay, got it. L/hr. Thanks.

I use Beer Alchemy, I guess this must do this calculation somewhere, up till now I've just been working off 10% for my 1hr boils.


----------



## 1974Alby

anyone subbed the Styrian's for Willamette?? Ive read in a couple of places that it can be substituted, but others on here have emphasized the importance of Styrian's to this recipe...but I dont have any! (but I do have Willamette).


----------



## drsmurto

Albainian said:


> anyone subbed the Styrian's for Willamette?? Ive read in a couple of places that it can be substituted, but others on here have emphasized the importance of Styrian's to this recipe...but I dont have any! (but I do have Willamette).



Styrian Goldings make Landlord.

You can sub them but it will no longer be Landlord. Same goes for the yeast.

I've made all williamette english ales and find them very enjoyable. 

It depends on whether you want a Landlord or some other tasty english bitter. :icon_cheers:


----------



## manticle

I posted something similar in the what's in the glass (commercial) thread.

My local bottle shop has started getting this in and so far they seem to be in good condition.

As far as the 100% GP claim goes, I am tasting raisins and toast that remind me of simpsons heritage crystal. Heritage is made from maris otter so if there is a similar crystalised GP, that would explain colour and flavour beyond just wort caramelisation.

I have made a few varieties of english best bitter/UK pale ale based on the idea of TT landlord and more recent attempts using heritage are much closer. The hop schedule in this recipe is pretty damn close as far as I can tell (not done side by side) and I reckon if you were super keen to clone rather than just make nice beer* you could do worse than to start with that.

If the crystal in this recipe were simpson's heritage, the hop schedule and yeast identical (to the DB) and the malt was Thomas fawcett GP, you'd be hitting the mark for sure. Caramelise for fun.

*I don't mean to suggest that this hop schedule doesn't make nice beer, because it does.


----------



## manticle

mckenry said:


> Update.
> No wine flavour at all. This beer is a 'will do again' beer.
> BTW - I used JW Pils as the base. I do with everything as I like to make lagers and cant justify using different ale malts as bases.
> Happy for someone to send me one made with GP or something else as base for comparison :icon_cheers:
> I dont know what I am missing, but its a great beer with JW Pils as a base too.
> Loving what Styrians brings. Might try them in a pils one day.



As a lover of UK malts, I will take up your challenge. Won't be exactly this beer, but I am happy to send you a pale English bitter made with 1469, Simpsons maris and heritage, styrians and EKG.

Will trade for one of yours.


Then I'll send you some stuff made with Dingemans and Weyermans pils so you can keep making mainly lagers. Dingemans especially (hard to get) is gold.


----------



## Shifter

*Dr Smurto's Landlord.* (Extra Special/Strong Bitter (English Pale Ale))

Original Gravity (OG): 1.050 (P): 12.4
Final Gravity (FG): 1.013 (P): 3.3
Alcohol (ABV): 4.91 %
Colour (SRM): 10.5 (EBC): 20.7
Bitterness (IBU): 31.1 (Tinseth - No Chill Adjusted)

96.15% Maris Otter Malt 5.0 kg
3.85% Crystal 270 0.200 kg

1.2 g/L Fuggles (4.2% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) 28g
1 g/L East Kent Golding (4.5% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) 24g
1.3 g/L Styrian Golding (5.2% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Aroma) 30g

0.0 g/L Whirlfloc Tablet @ 10 Minutes (Boil)

Single step Infusion at 67C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 90 Minutes

Fermented at 20C with Wyeast 1469 - West Yorkshire Ale


My rendition of Landlord, increased for 23 ltrs and modified for no chill. Gravity check tastings are very, very nice.


----------



## Spiesy

had mine fermenting away at 20 degs for the past 5-days... funny thing is, it had a good 2-inches of krausen rocking - but doesn't appear to be bubbling at all. Airlock remains full as - and the krausen seems to have halved over the last day or so. I keep waiting for it to blow out the airlock, as previous brewers have experienced with this yeast.

One thing is, I tried (and thought I had succeeded) in popping the inner bag in the Wyeast, but failed... ended up quickly dipping some clean scissors in sanitiser, cutting the inner bag up and quickly dropping it all in.

I've only used US05 and Nottingham dry yeast before, is this lack of bubbling common in the Wyeast West Yorkshire liquid yeast?

I've got 20L in a 30L fermenter. And for what it's worth, due to a greatly improved efficiency, I've ended up with a lot more sugar than I had planned... OG was 1054 @ 18 degs.


----------



## jbowers

Spiesy said:


> had mine fermenting away at 20 degs for the past 5-days... funny thing is, it had a good 2-inches of krausen rocking - but doesn't appear to be bubbling at all. Airlock remains full as - and the krausen seems to have halved over the last day or so. I keep waiting for it to blow out the airlock, as previous brewers have experienced with this yeast.
> 
> One thing is, I tried (and thought I had succeeded) in popping the inner bag in the Wyeast, but failed... ended up quickly dipping some clean scissors in sanitiser, cutting the inner bag up and quickly dropping it all in.
> 
> I've only used US05 and Nottingham dry yeast before, is this lack of bubbling common in the Wyeast West Yorkshire liquid yeast?
> 
> I've got 20L in a 30L fermenter. And for what it's worth, due to a greatly improved efficiency, I've ended up with a lot more sugar than I had planned... OG was 1054 @ 18 degs.



If you've got krausen, you've got fermentation. If you don't have visible krausen, you might still have fermentation. If you don't have bubbling in your airlock, your airlock isn't bubbling.

In future, if you cant pop the smack pack (it took me ages the first time, need to be VERY firm), don't bother with the contents of the little bag at all. Not really needed at all. Just some wort and yeast nutrient, i believe, in there.


----------



## Spiesy

thanks jbowers... I guess it's just back to the waiting game...


----------



## jbowers

Spiesy said:


> thanks jbowers... I guess it's just back to the waiting game...



If it helps your peace of mind, I almost never get a massive krausen with 1469. Normally pretty moderate, bout the same as US-05. This grain/hop combination is a stunner when combined with the yeast - I'm betting you'll be really happy with the outcome


----------



## Spiesy

mate, I want to EAT the krausen right now... looks awesome... eagerly awaiting keg deployment!


----------



## milob40

have this fermenting atm but it has been 16 days now fg1016, is 1469 a slow fermenting yeast?
also had no mo so used pearle.


----------



## mckenry

manticle said:


> As a lover of UK malts, I will take up your challenge. Won't be exactly this beer, but I am happy to send you a pale English bitter made with 1469, Simpsons maris and heritage, styrians and EKG.
> 
> Will trade for one of yours.
> 
> 
> Then I'll send you some stuff made with Dingemans and Weyermans pils so you can keep making mainly lagers. Dingemans especially (hard to get) is gold.



Hey manticle,
Only just saw this. Will send a pm to get the ball rolling. Cheers.


----------



## Spiesy

Report on my Dr. Smurto's TTL:

The beer displays a prominent 'honey' type taste and smell to it. And idea what this could be caused by? I have not brewed with these malts or hops before. The only things I did differently to the recipe were:
* forecast for 65% efficiency, hit 75%, so ended up with a lot more sugars. Target OG was 1042, Actual OG was 1054, with Actual FG of 1015.
* a friend gave me some homegrown 'Goldings' flowers (EK, I think) - so I added 10g to the secondary ferment (18L) for 2 days at the end of fermentation in a hop sock. Crash chilled for a day and a half, and then transferred to a keg.

So yeah, there's some strange honey vibes afoot (could this be from the malt or hops?), a little bit of added sweetness as well (most likely due to my higher efficiency) and a bit of an earthy presence, which as I understand it, is par for course with these hops.

Cheers.


----------



## [email protected]

milob40 said:


> have this fermenting atm but it has been 16 days now fg1016, is 1469 a slow fermenting yeast?
> also had no mo so used pearle.



In my experiecne 1469 is one of the most ferocious yeasts, ferments hard and fast, drops like a brick after and needs good temp control. I would be looking at your yeast handling.




Spiesy said:


> Report on my Dr. Smurto's TTL:
> 
> The beer displays a prominent 'honey' type taste and smell to it. And idea what this could be caused by? I have not brewed with these malts or hops before. The only things I did differently to the recipe were:
> * forecast for 65% efficiency, hit 75%, so ended up with a lot more sugars. Target OG was 1042, Actual OG was 1054, with Actual FG of 1015.
> * a friend gave me some homegrown 'Goldings' flowers (EK, I think) - so I added 10g to the secondary ferment (18L) for 2 days at the end of fermentation in a hop sock. Crash chilled for a day and a half, and then transferred to a keg.
> 
> So yeah, there's some strange honey vibes afoot (could this be from the malt or hops?), a little bit of added sweetness as well (most likely due to my higher efficiency) and a bit of an earthy presence, which as I understand it, is par for course with these hops.
> 
> Cheers.




From reading your previous posts, sounds like your yeast was not in the best health? Same lines as above, look into your yeast handling. The pack you used may not have been in the best condition? so you have had a less than optimal ferment leaving you with some undesirable flavours.

Edit 2: Also could just be your temp of 20deg. If your measuring the side of fermenter means the actual temp could of got around 21 which will produce significant esters with 1469. I always set my temp to 17 for an 18deg ferment especially with this yeast. 

Edit1: speeeling


----------



## Spiesy

thanks Beer4U. I thought perhaps not having the Wyeast pack fully swollen would just result in a longer fermentation - not a bad ferment with funky esters? I got 71% attenuation out of the ferment, but you think there could have been unwanted esters created from this? 
Re: ferment temp, I set to 20 as that was what both the yeast and the recipe called for... my fridge wasn't set to 20, it was set to 18 to maintain the ferment... mind you, due to this yeasts sudden activity there was a day where it ramped itself up to 21 or so before I got home from work and reigned it back in.


----------



## bigandhairy

Spiesy said:


> thanks Beer4U. I thought perhaps not having the Wyeast pack fully swollen would just result in a longer fermentation - not a bad ferment with funky esters? I got 71% attenuation out of the ferment, but you think there could have been unwanted esters created from this?
> Re: ferment temp, I set to 20 as that was what both the yeast and the recipe called for... my fridge wasn't set to 20, it was set to 18 to maintain the ferment... mind you, due to this yeasts sudden activity there was a day where it ramped itself up to 21 or so before I got home from work and reigned it back in.


You can get some unwanted flavours if you don't have a good large healthy yeast pitch. Sometimes the unwanted yeasts can get a jump start on your good beer yeast before the good stuff can take over the ferment. I wouldn't get too concerned about those temps, I run mine at 20-22 depending. I believe Bribie at times runs his at 24 to really push the esters. Its a great yeast with great esters, I reckon running it below 20 restricts its lovely flavours. All in my humble opinion of course.

bah


----------



## Bada Bing Brewery

Had my first crack at this and the famous 1469 that everybody gets a chubby about ..... I now know why. This will be a house beer. Not exactly to spec but the good Dr inspired this version. SWMBO likes it and I gave a blind taste test to my son (megaswiller, he is young - there is still hope) - my landlord vs a crownie. His assessment was - that one is heaps smoother and tastes good. NO SHIT !!!

Thanks Dr Smurto

Original Gravity (OG): 1.050 (P): 12.4
Final Gravity (FG): 1.014 (P): 3.6
Alcohol (ABV): 4.78 %
Colour (SRM): 17.0 (EBC): 33.5
Bitterness (IBU): 30.5 (Average - No Chill Adjusted)

89.13% Golden Promise Malt
6.52% Dark Crystal Malt
4.35% Wheat Malt

1.7 g/L Fuggles (3.8% Alpha) @ 45 Minutes (Boil)
1.2 g/L Mt. Hood (4.5% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
1.4 g/L Styrian Golding (3.4% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil)

0.3 g/L CaSO4 @ 0 Minutes (Mash)

HERMIT step mash 55, 64, 72, 78C. Boil for 80 Minutes

Fermented at 18C with Wyeast 1469 - West Yorkshire Ale


----------



## Spiesy

so.... as my keg of the TTL is about to empty, perhaps I should post my finding from my maiden brew-age... particularly seeing as though I bought a bottle of this from Blackhearts & Sparrows yesterday, for the first time...

My TTL has been in the keg for a good 2-3 weeks now, and it's just hitting it's straps now... as it's about to blow. 
_Disclaimer: I threw an additional dry hop of Goldings flowers (1g/2l), just because a mate gave me some homegrown... _
_Disclaimer #2: I'm more an APA than an EPA type drinker, and had never tried TTL up till now..._
_Disclaimer #3: I enjoy the use of > "..."_

My TTL inititally tasted overtly earthy, and full of a flavour that I could only describe as "honey, with the sweetness taken out" (perhaps this was due to my dry hopping?). 
Over time though, it has developed into quite a nice beer. Thanks Dr. Smurto!

Had the original yesterday.. and I think the freshness of my clone has an upper hand over the original... as it pale's in comparison, imho.

Not really my cuppa, overall, but as far as a clone goes - amazing work!


----------



## manticle

Fuggles will give earth, honey without the sweetness could be the styrians (I get mandarin but honey is understandable to me).


----------



## Spiesy

thanks for the clarification mate... it was hardcore earthy and honey-y to begin with...


----------



## Thefatdoghead

This beer tastes like a genuine english real ale as you would have it straight out the brewery. I no chilled it so it's a little more bitter than one would expect but I love it like this. Fresh,bitter and english. Golden promise all the way!! I might try it next time with 1968 though only because im obsessed with that yeast.


----------



## Brewman_

Spiesy said:


> so.... as my keg of the TTL is about to empty, perhaps I should post my finding from my maiden brew-age... particularly seeing as though I bought a bottle of this from Blackhearts & Sparrows yesterday, for the first time...
> 
> Had the original yesterday.. and I think the freshness of my clone has an upper hand over the original... as it pale's in comparison, imho.




I agree on many imported beers. The beers we taste out of the bottle really may not true to the beer where they are produced when fresh, talking fully imported. So need to be careful on where the goal posts are.

I made a Hobgoblin recently and it was OK. In my opinoin, not as good as what I have tasted off the keg in some pubs in Melbourne, and probably better than what you can get at the bottle shop.
Fear.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

Just having a pint again now thinking a little less bitterness would make this perfect for me. I do love bitter beers but for this with golden promise and a touch of carabohemian a little less bitter will be spot on. At least ill get it right by the time the engine arrives! Thanks again to a person that loves beer and was thoughtful enough to share his recipe.

:icon_cheers:


----------



## nardcooker

Great beer. Just reaching the end of the keg on this one and it's been good all the way through. I've been no chilling and working BrewMate to pull my bitterness back into line which has been working a treat. I'll be making this one again for sure.


----------



## GuyQLD

nardcoooker said:


> Great beer. Just reaching the end of the keg on this one and it's been good all the way through. I've been no chilling and working BrewMate to pull my bitterness back into line which has been working a treat. I'll be making this one again for sure.



Any chance you could post the adjusted hop additions you're using mate? I'm planning this one for my next brew but since I've been relying on putting my kettle in the bath to cool it I've had enough. Off to the big green shed and time to get into no chill I reckon.


----------



## nardcooker

GuyQLD said:


> Any chance you could post the adjusted hop additions you're using mate? I'm planning this one for my next brew but since I've been relying on putting my kettle in the bath to cool it I've had enough. Off to the big green shed and time to get into no chill I reckon.



I brew double batches and then split into 2 cubes.
60mins: 45g Fuggles (5.1%) 17.08 IBU (nochill)
30mins: 30g EKG (4.3%) 8.33 IBU (nochill)
10mins 1 whirlfloc tablet
Flame out remove hops
Wait 20mins then whirlpool
Wait 5mins then drain to cube
Add hop sock of 22.5g Styrian Goldings (3.4%) 5.28 IBU (nochill) to each cube. 
I just cut up some stockings the missus had and tied either end and shoved one in each cube.
Total IBU = 30.7

I bought BeerSmith 2 when it came out and over bittered my first two (single) batches. I then found BrewMate and the "no chill tick box".


----------



## drsmurto

This recipe, like all those i have in the recipeDB in the various threads, DO NOT need to be adjusted for no chill.

I whirlpool after flameout and don't start chilling for a minimum of 10 mins, more often 20 mins. During this time the wort will be cooling down slowly. 

I suggest you brew the recipe as is with no adjustments and then with whatever adjustments you feel necessary and compare.


----------



## beerdrinkingbob

Hi DRS,

Brewing this one but only have these (see below) crystals on hand, have you got any suggestions for a crystal bill, realise it wont be exactly the same but want to dip my 1469 toe in.....

Simpson's Medium
JW dark
Cararoma
extra special 


Cheers 

BDB


----------



## drsmurto

beerdrinkingbob said:


> Hi DRS,
> 
> Brewing this one but only have these (see below) crystals on hand, have you got any suggestions for a crystal bill, realise it wont be exactly the same but want to dip my 1469 toe in.....
> 
> Simpson's Medium
> JW dark
> Cararoma
> extra special
> 
> 
> Cheers
> 
> BDB



Cararoma as 1st preference although simpsons medium is also very nice.


----------



## sean_0

I just saw this referenced on another home brew forum. It seems to indicate that Timothy Taylor does something unusual with its late hops (styrians). Any idea what they mean? Is the wort cooled or still hot?



> "The hops in Landlord are used in a most unusual way. In most breweries, a mash of malt and water creates fermentable sugar. The sweet extract is boiled vigorously with hops, which add both bitterness and aroma. The hopped extract is cooled and heads for the fermenting vessels where yeast turns the sugars into alcohol.
> 
> Its a bit different where Landlord is concerned. English Fuggles and Goldings hops are packed in the copper boil for bitterness but, prior to fermentation, the extract or hopped wort lies for several hours on a deep bed of Styrian Goldings, where it picks up an exquisite floral and citrus aroma. Styrian Goldings come from the small country of Slovenia, the most northerly part of former Yugoslavia. They are commonly used in Britain today but they were rare in the early 1950s."


----------



## RdeVjun

sean-0, that process described may have been novel decades ago but it is just marketing dribble today, there's absolutely nothing in Protz' article that is out of the ordinary now, it just describes late kettle hopping with Styrian Goldings. That's what just about every TTL recipe I've seen does, that is basically a hallmark of the variant. I'd be surprised if the article isn't largely regurgitation of a decades old advert, it may have been revolutionary then but is everyday now.


----------



## manticle

I've been playing with extended boils recently (no not on my arse) and have had good results with colour and flavour boiling both a scottish wee heavy and a doppelbock for 3.5 hours. Simple grain bils in both (just maris with the scottish).

Interested in trying all GP, caramelisation/runnings reduction and this hopping schedule (which is a great one) to see if I can get the landlord colour and depth.

3-4 hour boil. Might be the maiden brew on my new system once I settle in my new place.


----------



## paulie

has anyone else here ever had TTL served from a cask in the UK?

The stuff in the bottle doesn't taste remotely like the beer that wins the camra awards - I wouldn't be spending any time trying to replicate it !!

TTL is probably my fave beer, alongside crouch vale brewers gold , and from what I could taste:

No munich malt
no crystal malt
no chocolate malt
no decoctions

just plenty of barley sugar flavour, balanced with a lot of late styrian goldings

yummy


----------



## manticle

No, but the stuff I've had in the bottle is still lovely so I don't mind having a crack.


----------



## paulie

manticle said:


> No, but the stuff I've had in the bottle is still lovely so I don't mind having a crack.



Add a drunken trip to Northern England to your bucket list :beer:


----------



## manticle

Don't worry. It's there.

Work with a bloke from Newcastle region who recently bought a small house in his hometown. Will get the good drunken tour in the next year or two.


----------



## gap

paulie said:


> Add a drunken trip to Northern England to your bucket list :beer:




Had TTL from hand pump and cask at a small pub in Scarborough on New Years WEve
a couple of years ago. Great stuff.

Graeme


----------



## paulie

you can see why it has won so many awards

so drinkable - can down heaps of pints in a session

I am biased being a Pom, (and I mostly use american hops), but that is the problem with all of the mega hopped DIPA's etc - you cant drink 6 pints of it !!

Reminds me of a saying "just because you can, doesn't mean you should"

Did you get to try Brewers Gold?


----------



## Hadrian

paulie said:


> has anyone else here ever had TTL served from a cask in the UK?
> 
> The stuff in the bottle doesn't taste remotely like the beer that wins the camra awards - I wouldn't be spending any time trying to replicate it !!
> 
> TTL is probably my fave beer, alongside crouch vale brewers gold , and from what I could taste:
> 
> No munich malt
> no crystal malt
> no chocolate malt
> no decoctions
> 
> just plenty of barley sugar flavour, balanced with a lot of late styrian goldings
> 
> yummy



I drank a lot of TTL in London as my local had it on cask.I agree the bottled version tastes nothing like the cask version


----------



## drsmurto

paulie said:


> has anyone else here ever had TTL served from a cask in the UK?
> 
> The stuff in the bottle doesn't taste remotely like the beer that wins the camra awards - I wouldn't be spending any time trying to replicate it !!
> 
> TTL is probably my fave beer, alongside crouch vale brewers gold , and from what I could taste:
> 
> No munich malt
> no crystal malt
> no chocolate malt
> no decoctions
> 
> just plenty of barley sugar flavour, balanced with a lot of late styrian goldings
> 
> yummy



Yes, I have.

I lived in Durham for 2 years and drank my weight in the stuff. It is the reason i started brewing AG as all my kit attempts were lacking. Bottled version we get here lacks the freshness and is more often that not oxidised. 

[rambling monologue]Durham has loads of what I referred to as 'old man pubs'. Being a uni town, Durham is flooded with uni students from all over the UK and beyond. The uni is arguably 3rd on the list behind Oxford and Cambridge and in some aspects, ahead of them both. So many of the students that live in Durham are from the upper classes which doesn't mesh well with the working class locals. So you get a segregation - uni pubs and locals pubs. None of the uni pubs had anything other than lager and cider. Some of the locals pubs were old man pubs and were where i spent most of my time drinking handpumped ales - my local had a bitter for 1.26 pound for a pint. Many were change out of 2 pounds and several of the pubs and 3 or 4 handpumps with guest beers that changed weekly. I doubt i went a week without drinking a TTL, it was on tap at several of the pubs. We often did 'real ale crawls' around the town, all were within walking distance of each other. I am getting excited and a little teary just thinking about it.[/rambling monologue]

Not sure i agree with all the no list.

I've seen no confirmation other than marketing and forum generated urban mythology that TTL is 100% GP. A brewer talking to a bunch of seppos on a homebrewing radio show in the US resulted in a lot of it being regurgitated as gospel. It may well be but the result of adding a few % of crystal malt results in a very tasty beer that (from memory) tastes similar to the real deal. I suspect part of the magic of TTL is being in a pub in the north of England drinking the stuff. A bit like the way food/beer seems to taste better when you are holidays.

By all means do extended boils, caramelisations etc. It's part of the fun of brewing beer for yourself. Will it result in a better beer? Possibly, possibly not but as long as you tell yourself it is better then that is all that really matters.


----------



## sponge

gap said:


> Had TTL from hand pump and cask at a small pub in Scarborough on New Years WEve
> a couple of years ago. Great stuff.
> 
> Graeme



They had TTL on hand pump at Scarborough pub? 

God dam I wish I had've known that...


...assuming you're talking about the same scarborough pub I am - North of thirroul in wollongong?


----------



## gap

sponge said:


> They had TTL on hand pump at Scarborough pub?
> 
> God dam I wish I had've known that...
> 
> 
> ...assuming you're talking about the same scarborough pub I am - North of thirroul in wollongong?



NO.

It was Scarborough in the UK as per the theme of the post I was answering.


----------



## sponge

Yup, jumped the gun on that one.

Read scarborough and saw you were from the blue mountains, so just took a punt.

Goes to show my lack of eye for detail...


----------



## tiprya

For an English bitter like this, what mash schedule would you recommend?

Just basically a single infusion like 55/66/78 for 10/90/10 or would there be any advantages to doing something more adventurous?


----------



## felten

I thought the 100% GP thing was from Graham Wheeler's book? I haven't heard of the TTL brewers doing an interview before.


----------



## black_labb

tiprya said:


> For an English bitter like this, what mash schedule would you recommend?
> 
> Just basically a single infusion like 55/66/78 for 10/90/10 or would there be any advantages to doing something more adventurous?


Traditionally English ales use a single infusion and mash out as their malt is of very good quality. No ned for a protein rest. From memory Dr smurto reccomended a 67 infusion and presumedly a mash out. Of course it may turn out well with different mash schedules.


----------



## drsmurto

black_labb said:


> Traditionally English ales use a single infusion and mash out as their malt is of very good quality. No ned for a protein rest. From memory Dr smurto reccomended a 67 infusion and presumedly a mash out. Of course it may turn out well with different mash schedules.



65-66C single infusion for 90 mins with a 78C mashout is my regime. 90 min boil.


----------



## michaelcocks

Hi good doctor
I am looking for some advice
I did this as a small mini biab 20l stovetop
I think I must have done some serious under calculation of the bittering
As I used 22g of EKG (6.5aa) at 80 min and then 20g at 20 min and 20g Styrian at flameout
1044 into fermenter 
Fermenter sample was sweet. left couple of days and is now at 1020 so good progress
Still very sweet? Is this normal? Never made this. At made this as ag before but been brewing 7 years sweetest fermenter smalle I've ever had ( made the extract version of you golden ale which excellent btw)

Brew pal said 27 ibus for my boil size (18l) but it tastes like 10ibu 

The only thing I can think is that my hop sack was small and tight when boiling 
( ooh err Missus !!) so maybe didn't get full utilization will post pictures ( took pics throughout) 
When on full size computer ( on iPhone now)
Make and add Hop tea ? 
Or not ?
Now ?
before end ferment ?
or 
Add to bitter in keg ?
Thanks I Advance for any and all feedback
( yes including the envevitable tight sack jokes  
Pictures of tight sack to follow ... Cricket I must listened to way too much brewing network banter between Palmer and JZ


----------



## michaelcocks

Here's a picture of

Contents of sack...

Sack size

Sack size when heated up

Tight sack..

:lol:


----------



## drsmurto

michaelcocks said:


> Hi good doctor
> I am looking for some advice
> I did this as a small mini biab 20l stovetop
> I think I must have done some serious under calculation of the bittering
> As I used 22g of EKG (6.5aa) at 80 min and then 20g at 20 min and 20g Styrian at flameout
> 1044 into fermenter
> Fermenter sample was sweet. left couple of days and is now at 1020 so good progress
> Still very sweet? Is this normal? Never made this. At made this as ag before but been brewing 7 years sweetest fermenter smalle I've ever had ( made the extract version of you golden ale which excellent btw)
> 
> Brew pal said 27 ibus for my boil size (18l) but it tastes like 10ibu
> 
> The only thing I can think is that my hop sack was small and tight when boiling
> ( ooh err Missus !!) so maybe didn't get full utilization will post pictures ( took pics throughout)
> When on full size computer ( on iPhone now)
> Make and add Hop tea ?
> Or not ?
> Now ?
> before end ferment ?
> or
> Add to bitter in keg ?
> Thanks I Advance for any and all feedback
> ( yes including the envevitable tight sack jokes
> Pictures of tight sack to follow ... Cricket I must listened to way too much brewing network banter between Palmer and JZ



A 1020 sample out of the fermenter if the target IBU was 27 IBU will taste sweet. I wouldn't be too concerned at this early stage.

Once you get it down to 1010/12 then you should start noticing the bitterness. 

So I was suggest relax, wait until the fermetation is done and then report back. You are a little excited which is a good thing but i suspect this will still work out fine.


----------



## michaelcocks

Still very sweet 

Now at 1010 

What to do ?

Seriously considering about 10g of EKG for 30 mins to add a few ibu's

Thoughts ?


----------



## hughbert

just had a taste of this i kegged it on saturday. amazing. good stuff doc.


----------



## stux

Gav80 said:


> Just having a pint again now thinking a little less bitterness would make this perfect for me. I do love bitter beers but for this with golden promise and a touch of carabohemian a little less bitter will be spot on. At least ill get it right by the time the engine arrives! Thanks again to a person that loves beer and was thoughtful enough to share his recipe.
> 
> :icon_cheers:


That's pretty much how I make it 

Love the carabohemian in it, adds just a touch of acridity


----------



## beerbrewer76543

I had TTL off the hand pump in Lincoln last weekend and it was amazing!

It is way more fruity / floral than the bottled version. It was juicy, sort of like lichee.

Then I discovered Timothy Taylor Ram Tam on hand pump. OMG :icon_drool2: 

Shame I can't find it in London at all


----------



## Tilt

DrSmurto said:


> I lived in Durham for 2 years and drank my weight in the stuff. It is the reason i started brewing AG as all my kit attempts were lacking. Bottled version we get here lacks the freshness and is more often that not oxidised.
> 
> [rambling monologue]Durham has loads of what I referred to as 'old man pubs'. Being a uni town, Durham is flooded with uni students from all over the UK and beyond. The uni is arguably 3rd on the list behind Oxford and Cambridge and in some aspects, ahead of them both. So many of the students that live in Durham are from the upper classes which doesn't mesh well with the working class locals. So you get a segregation - uni pubs and locals pubs. None of the uni pubs had anything other than lager and cider. Some of the locals pubs were old man pubs and were where i spent most of my time drinking handpumped ales - my local had a bitter for 1.26 pound for a pint. Many were change out of 2 pounds and several of the pubs and 3 or 4 handpumps with guest beers that changed weekly. I doubt i went a week without drinking a TTL, it was on tap at several of the pubs. We often did 'real ale crawls' around the town, all were within walking distance of each other. I am getting excited and a little teary just thinking about it.[/rambling monologue]
> 
> 
> Having just had an enjoyable read over this thread while gathering my thoughts for an upcoming attempt at a "real" Special Bitter this post had me reminiscing too DrS.
> I spent about a year in Durham and lived 3 doors up from the Colpitts for much of that time.
> Pints of Sam Smiths OB were 1.16 and always in good form. There seemed to be tasty beer in just about every pub I went to. Plenty of chances to enjoy TTL on handpump and the occasional Castle Eden at the Dun Cow. The local Durham brewery wasn't bad either - their cask ale delivered for an Australia day BBQ in -1 degree sleet stands out as a great night.
> Had a great time there and would say it was the steepest part of my beer learning curve being surrounded by people who new good beer and pubs that served it.
> Cheers mate - you got me reliving some cracking times too.
> Definitely looking forward to putting this threads wisdom to use in the near future.


----------



## drsmurto

tilt said:


> Having just had an enjoyable read over this thread while gathering my thoughts for an upcoming attempt at a "real" Special Bitter this post had me reminiscing too DrS.
> I spent about a year in Durham and lived 3 doors up from the Colpitts for much of that time.
> Pints of Sam Smiths OB were 1.16 and always in good form. There seemed to be tasty beer in just about every pub I went to. Plenty of chances to enjoy TTL on handpump and the occasional Castle Eden at the Dun Cow. The local Durham brewery wasn't bad either - their cask ale delivered for an Australia day BBQ in -1 degree sleet stands out as a great night.
> Had a great time there and would say it was the steepest part of my beer learning curve being surrounded by people who new good beer and pubs that served it.
> Cheers mate - you got me reliving some cracking times too.
> Definitely looking forward to putting this threads wisdom to use in the near future.



The local i was referring to was the Colpitts, i lived around the corner on Lawson Tce. Had many a bbq in the 'backyard' which involved bbqing under an umbrella and leaving pilsners outside in the snow to stay cold, ales inside to stay warm! 

Dun Cow was a favourite pub, always quiet and had unique beer on handpump. Another pub i enjoyed was the Woodman Inn which had 3 handpumps and the beers always changed. The half moon, the shakespeare tavern. Memories......


----------



## Tilt

DrSmurto said:


> The local i was referring to was the Colpitts, i lived around the corner on Lawson Tce. Had many a bbq in the 'backyard' which involved bbqing under an umbrella and leaving pilsners outside in the snow to stay cold, ales inside to stay warm!
> 
> Dun Cow was a favourite pub, always quiet and had unique beer on handpump. Another pub i enjoyed was the Woodman Inn which had 3 handpumps and the beers always changed. The half moon, the shakespeare tavern. Memories......



Classic - what a great spot. 
I was up the hill a bit on Alexandria Cr. The Colpitts bar was far more comfortable and warmer than our loungeroom so spent more time there than at home. Was it the Elm tree that did a pub quiz with weekly Treasure Island questions? It got me back into reading RL Stevenson. 
I worked at, what was then, Dryburn Hospital and often dropped into the Bridge with mates who caught the train home to Toontown. 
Durham was a great springboard for exploring the north of England and Scotland so I spent most weekends walking and climbing in the Lakes, Northumbria, Cairngorms..... as you say.... memories. 
Now to reproduce the flavours that kick off a few more of them! Cheers.


----------



## wbosher

I'm look at making this one soon, one question though. Why did you use Fuggles with such a low AA rating as bittering hops? I thought something with a higher AA would be better.

Not questioning your recipe, just a newbie who's curious as to why you did it this way. 

EDIT: Also, my LHBS doesn't have East Kent Goldings, only Styrian. Can I substitute the East Kent with more Styrian?


----------



## drsmurto

wbosher said:


> I'm look at making this one soon, one question though. Why did you use Fuggles with such a low AA rating as bittering hops? I thought something with a higher AA would be better.
> 
> Not questioning your recipe, just a newbie who's curious as to why you did it this way.
> 
> EDIT: Also, my LHBS doesn't have East Kent Goldings, only Styrian. Can I substitute the East Kent with more Styrian?



Re: Fuggles - supposedly what was/is used by TT. I like using low(er) AA% hops for bittering as i find in many cases, the bitterness is smoother. You could sub for another english hop with a higher AA% - target, challenger, northdown, first gold.

Re: EKG/Styrians - will make more of a difference than subbing out the fuggles but the styrians are the hero in a Landlord so yes, sub away.


----------



## wbosher

DrSmurto said:


> Re: Fuggles - supposedly what was/is used by TT. I like using low(er) AA% hops for bittering as i find in many cases, the bitterness is smoother. You could sub for another english hop with a higher AA% - target, challenger, northdown, first gold.
> 
> Re: EKG/Styrians - will make more of a difference than subbing out the fuggles but the styrians are the hero in a Landlord so yes, sub away.



Sweet. I'll use Fuggles and sub the EKG for Styrians and see how it turns out.

Cheers mate.


----------



## manticle

wbosher said:


> . Why did you use Fuggles with such a low AA rating as bittering hops? I thought something with a higher AA would be better.



Higher aa is often used because it requires less hops and is therefore cheaper. However there are other compounds besides iso-alpha acids that contribute to flavour, aroma and bitterness perception. In previous times many of the higher aa hops have had associated levels of other compounds (would need to look up the names as I can't remember of the top of my head) that have been associated with things like harsher bittering - conversely many of the lower aa hops and especially those known as noble hops have lower levels and thus provide a more pleasant bittering but the resulting cost is higher. Not too high on a homebrew scale but maybe too high for some commercials. Some more modern varieties have been bred to try and reduce the levels of these compounds while maintaining high aa%

Anyway, like the Doc, I generally prefer lower aa hops for bittering - mostly though I only use hops that I believe are appropriate to the beer profile, whether bittering or elsewhere. If a recipe is meant to have saaz flavour, I will also bitter with saaz.

Fuggles in this beer (I have brewed a slightly different 'landlord/UK pale but with this hop schedule) will give a touch of earthiness which I find balances well with the subtle mandarin I get from styrians.


----------



## wbosher

I've often wondered why people don't just use the most potent hop for the bittering, that explains in nicely. Thanks manticle.


----------



## manticle

I also find bittering hops contribute to the flavour. Might be hard to detect in super hoppy beers but certainly those with less/lower late additions or single bittering only, it's distinct to my palate. Bittering addition is _mainly_ bittering but still adds to flavour, just as flavour addition adds to bittering (and aroma).


----------



## NewtownClown

Very true.
I once made the mistake of using CTZ for the 60 min. bittering hop to 30 IBU's in an Ordinary Bitter... Waaaaay to much aroma and flavour came thru... :icon_vomit:


----------



## stux

manticle said:


> I also find bittering hops contribute to the flavour. Might be hard to detect in super hoppy beers but certainly those with less/lower late additions or single bittering only, it's distinct to my palate. Bittering addition is _mainly_ bittering but still adds to flavour, just as flavour addition adds to bittering (and aroma).



Simple enough to prove. Same beer with a single 60 minute addition will taste different with different hops


----------



## carniebrew

Stux said:


> Simple enough to prove. Same beer with a single 60 minute addition will taste different with different hops


I'm sure it would taste different. But I thought the trick was to use high AA hops for bittering in a recipe that has significant late hopping, such as an APA. Thereby the aroma/flavour hops well and truly shine above whatever was used for bittering. For example I wouldn't use Warrior to bitter a hefe. I think it was Chris at G&G who first put me on to that.

But as always, it's a personal preference.


----------



## manticle

Thus why I stated above that it might be hard to detect in super hoppy beers. Hard to detect does not equate to 'is not present'.
In this case we are certainly not talking about a hopped up aipa- landlord is delicious and flavourful but also more delicate.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

Would subbing Willamette for the Fuggles here be sweet (got lots of Willamette and a friend and I want to do a joint brew/get a cube each of an ESB)? Could the Willamette double as the bittering addition and sub for the Styrian addition (and still be a nice ESB)?


----------



## Tahoose

2 days and 25 pages I hope I've absorbed enough of the gems in this thread. 

Had a TTLL bottle last week, which has got me interested in making a batch of this. 

Will get some hops in soon and this might even go to the top of the "to brew list".


----------



## Cervantes

DJ_L3ThAL said:


> Would subbing Willamette for the Fuggles here be sweet (got lots of Willamette and a friend and I want to do a joint brew/get a cube each of an ESB)? Could the Willamette double as the bittering addition and sub for the Styrian addition (and still be a nice ESB)?


I'm also planning to brew this, but can't find any Styrian Goldings, so intend to use Willamette instead.

Does anyone have any views as to how this will go?


----------



## pk.sax

Willamette went beautiful in A esb I brewed. It was bittered with leftover fuggles and flavour/aroma both willamette. Loved it.


----------



## DJ_L3ThAL

My Williamette one was the most popular beer at my birthday party last night. Got smashed in no time, would highly recommend!! (I used flowers)...


----------



## Cervantes

Thanks for that.

Willamette it is then


----------



## Ferg

Not sure if this has been listed somewhere during the 25 pages but here is a good link that contains a video tour of the brewery and their process:

http://www.timothyta...rewing-process/


----------



## Brads Biabs

Bump....
Anyone still making this badboy i am just chucked the yeast 1469 yorkie on this.
23lt biab single infusion @66
3kg marris otter.
1.2kg munich11
200g carromma
100g choc
Doc Smurto hop shedule
Lift bag heat 76 dunk sparge .

Looks a bit darker than most on here but the aim was to get t hat bit of caramel flavour everyone is searching for.
Plan to dry hop 15g styrians at day 5 fof 4 days.


----------



## JDW81

This was my first ever AG brew. Still probs one of the best ones I've made. Haven't made it for a few years now though.

Might have to make another one for old times sake.


----------



## hoppy2B

I just did an ESB a couple of days ago as follows:

1000 grams Joe White Signature Ale
3000 grams raw wheat (Scout variety) coarse flour
100 grams dark crystal
100 grams Bairds brown malt
20 grams roast barley

About 70 grams of Dwarf (tetraploid) Cluster for bittering
200 grams (sifted down to 100 grams) Golding at 64C as it cooled

Step mash 50C, 60C, 63C, 70C. Started with 20 litres of water and no sparge.

20
minute gentle boil

15 litres at 1062 plus about 1.5 litres extra that I used for a starter

Fermenting half with S04 and half with Wy1318

My recipe works out to 150 grams of dark crystal per a 23 litre batch, which is what it has in common with Smurto's recipe on page 1. I tried to use all English type spec malts. The Golding had a phenomenal tangy apricot aroma. Grew the hops and wheat myself. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

Don't need a long boil because it's ale malt, and malt only makes up a small percentage of the grist, so likelihood of dms is low.

I'm planning to grind the flour finer and try a debranching rest at 40C to see if I can improve yield

Edit: Temp at which I added Golding hops.


----------



## Brads Biabs

Sure comes with big wraps cant wait to try it.
Smell coming out of the fermenter is making me drool.


----------



## hoppy2B

Brads Biabs said:


> Sure comes with big wraps cant wait to try it.
> Smell coming out of the fermenter is making me drool.



Just don't drool into the ferment vessel


----------



## Brads Biabs

hoppy2B said:


> Just don't drool into the ferment vessel


Away at work for 8 days with nothing but midstrength swill at camp.
Made them at least stock coopers 3.5..
Transfer and crash chill for 2 days force carb soon as i lob home .
Anyone else dream about beer .


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## Brads Biabs

Hmm got back took a sample 1018 sg was a littie higher than the original 1058 been 15 day ferment should i expect it to go lower temp been constant 16 c raised to 18 2 days i should i keg it and move on.


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## Brads Biabs

hoppy2B said:


> I just did an ESB a couple of days ago as follows:
> 
> 1000 grams Joe White Signature Ale
> 3000 grams raw wheat (Scout variety) coarse flour
> 100 grams dark crystal
> 100 grams Bairds brown malt
> 20 grams roast barley
> 
> About 70 grams of Dwarf (tetraploid) Cluster for bittering
> 200 grams (sifted down to 100 grams) Golding at 64C as it cooled
> 
> Step mash 50C, 60C, 63C, 70C. Started with 20 litres of water and no sparge.
> 
> 20
> minute gentle boil
> 
> 15 litres at 1062 plus about 1.5 litres extra that I used for a starter
> 
> Fermenting half with S04 and half with Wy1318
> 
> My recipe works out to 150 grams of dark crystal per a 23 litre batch, which is what it has in common with Smurto's recipe on page 1. I tried to use all English type spec malts. The Golding had a phenomenal tangy apricot aroma. Grew the hops and wheat myself. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.
> 
> Don't need a long boil because it's ale malt, and malt only makes up a small percentage of the grist, so likelihood of dms is low.
> 
> I'm planning to grind the flour finer and try a debranching rest at 40C to see if I can improve yield
> 
> Edit: Temp at which I added Golding hops.


Far out thats a lotta wheat how did the sparge go


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## hoppy2B

Brads Biabs said:


> Far out thats a lotta wheat how did the sparge go



No sparge.


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## Brads Biabs

Latest version. 
4 kg golden promise 
600g caramunich ll 50L
150g caararoma 
150g adiculated
40g [email protected] 40
25g [email protected] 20
25g [email protected] 5
OG 1045 
EBC 23
IBU 30
Yeast was WLP 005 couldnt get any yorkie.
Cold condition 5th day atm will keg today force carb and taste.
Many say is best enjoyed young but what is too young?


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## scomet

Brads Biabs said:


> Many say is best enjoyed young but what is too young?


I think a week is about minimum for bitter on gas (2 in a bottle) to get the C02 into the beer it has a fair bit of influence on the final taste of the beer, 3 is better but thats a long wait.....


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## Brads Biabs

Yeah even though i force carb i find it takes 4or 5 days to smooth out.


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## Brads Biabs

hoppy2B said:


> I just did an ESB a couple of days ago as follows:
> 
> 1000 grams Joe White Signature Ale
> 3000 grams raw wheat (Scout variety) coarse flour
> 100 grams dark crystal
> 100 grams Bairds brown malt
> 20 grams roast barley
> 
> About 70 grams of Dwarf (tetraploid) Cluster for bittering
> 200 grams (sifted down to 100 grams) Golding at 64C as it cooled
> 
> Step mash 50C, 60C, 63C, 70C. Started with 20 litres of water and no sparge.
> 
> 20
> minute gentle boil
> 
> 15 litres at 1062 plus about 1.5 litres extra that I used for a starter
> 
> Fermenting half with S04 and half with Wy1318
> 
> My recipe works out to 150 grams of dark crystal per a 23 litre batch, which is what it has in common with Smurto's recipe on page 1. I tried to use all English type spec malts. The Golding had a phenomenal tangy apricot aroma. Grew the hops and wheat myself. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.
> 
> Don't need a long boil because it's ale malt, and malt only makes up a small percentage of the grist, so likelihood of dms is low.
> 
> I'm planning to grind the flour finer and try a debranching rest at 40C to see if I can improve yield
> 
> Edit: Temp at which I added Golding hops.


Hoppy interested in how this turned out as im looking to make an ESB


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## Monster

Original recipe hit all the numbers.....except FG.
Took a hydrometer sample today after 11 days at 17c and it’s down to 1006 !!!
Tastes good. Will bottle it Sunday. 
is it going to be thin and dry? I might try my other (coopers) hydrometer before bottling just to be sure.


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## beerbong

Brads Biabs said:


> Latest version.
> 4 kg golden promise
> 600g caramunich ll 50L
> 150g caararoma
> 150g adiculated
> 40g [email protected] 40
> 25g [email protected] 20
> 25g [email protected] 5
> OG 1045
> EBC 23
> IBU 30
> Yeast was WLP 005 couldnt get any yorkie.
> Cold condition 5th day atm will keg today force carb and taste.
> Many say is best enjoyed young but what is too young?


Hi Brad,
Quick question - was this your latest version recipe for the Landlord or was it the Dr's?


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## MashBasher

Love this recipe. Thanks Dr S, wherever you may be. 

My latest batch used Verdant IPA yeast. I’d read commentary that this yeast was a bit similar to Yorkshire 1469.

Now I love WY1469, but the Verdant has got something very pleasing going on. It seems roughly in the same ballpark. 

I pitched the yeast and fermented at the bottom of the published range- 0.5 g/l and 18’. Finished in 9 days.

Very tasty off the fermenter and first early sample from kegging today is promising. 

Anyone else tried this? Thoughts?


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## Sidney Harbour-Bridge

MashBasher said:


> Love this recipe. Thanks Dr S, wherever you may be.
> 
> My latest batch used Verdant IPA yeast. I’d read commentary that this yeast was a bit similar to Yorkshire 1469.
> 
> Now I love WY1469, but the Verdant has got something very pleasing going on. It seems roughly in the same ballpark.
> 
> I pitched the yeast and fermented at the bottom of the published range- 0.5 g/l and 18’. Finished in 9 days.
> 
> Very tasty off the fermenter and first early sample from kegging today is promising.
> 
> Anyone else tried this? Thoughts?


I like my English bitters too, though not tried this recipe, I wouldn't have thought of using the verdant yeast in this beer but as 1469 is my favorite for bitters I will give the verdant a go. I just did a pacific ale with the verdant and that is very nice too


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## JDW81

Definitely worth trying, it's a simple but cracking recipe. It was my first ever all grain brew, and still one of the best Ive made.

I don't think I used 1469, it was probably 1968 (the wyeast ESB strain) but was still an amazing beer.

I haven't brewed for a while, but hopefully will get back into it next year, and this will be one of the first I make.

JD


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## yankinoz

Brads Biabs said:


> Latest version.
> 4 kg golden promise
> 600g caramunich ll 50L
> 150g caararoma
> 150g adiculated
> 
> Noting the acidulated malt along with that much crystal, does your water lean on the alkaline side? Do you know the mash pH?


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