# 1st Brew On Braumeister - Pics



## davewaldo

Hi everyone,

There seems to have been a surge in interest in this system lately so I thought I'd post some pics and my experiences during my maiden brew.

This 50L Braumeister is a graduation gift from my wife (yes she does have a sister but she's also married, sorry fellas). When it arrived I was impressed by its compact size and quality build. 

Firstly I should mention that I took my time during my first brew. It was quite a long brew day. I actually don't think the BM will save me much time, but it is much easier and I can leave it to mash / boil unattended while I do other things (like bottle a previous batch), and clean up is quite simple. But time saving wasn't why I purchased this system. My main reasons were consistency batch to batch, full electric brewing, and size.

Also, I'd like to disagree with those that think the BM is an automated system and therefore the brewer is hands off / less involved. I still mixed the mash at dough in, did a small manual sparge and added hops to the boil. Compared to a my old 3v system, the only things I didn't do was to calculate strike temp, manually recirculate and clean 3 vessels and extra hoses and taps (also I didn't have to constantly tweak gas output for the boil or worry about boil overs). I still had all the joy of being the brewer, I just used a machine to recirculate and hit temps. Essentially it allows me to do the fun parts of brewing without some of the annoying parts. I think its basically the same as any herms or rims system, just it all happens in the one vessel (ie, mash in then set temps and allow to recirculate and ramp up).

Anyways... on to the brew!

In with the malt! 







Here is a photo showing the size of the unit (I'm about 5 foot 10). Its compact, but not small. Also, you can see the nice draw string upgrade MHB adds to the filters. These make life SO much easier than the standard filters and the workmanship is equal to the quality of the BM.






An idiot with his new toy. Again you can see how much easier the draw string makes handling the filters and keeping them correctly located. This image is just after stirring in the mash. 






Here is the wort shortly after recirculating begins. This is a Dr Smurto's Golden Ale. 






The computer showing that we're warming up from mash in at 50 degrees to the first rest at 66. The BM seems to ramp at about 1 degree per minute. This was with no insulation, on a breezy day of about 15 degrees. I'm happy with that, but I'll experiment with insulation too 






About half way through the mash, crystal clear wort... nice! 






Lifting the malt pipe was a bitch. Even with two blokes it was awkward. The suction was the killer. I plan to make a little bench for my BM with an overhead manual winch. This means I'll be able to brew solo if needed too.






After the mash had drained for 5 mins or so I sparged (a rinse really) the grains with 1L per kg of malt at 80 degrees. This didn't make the wort cloudy like I feared it might (rinsing in the opposite direction to the recirculation flow).






The boil went well. Its not a raging boil, quite gentle really. But it is constant and did give me at least 10% boil off. I whirlpooled then cooled using a plate chiller via gravity into a 60L fermenter. I only extracted 43L rather than the 50L I planned, but my efficiency was still over 85% (mash efficiency). I'm very pleased with that! Also the whirlpool worked very well despite all the elements at the bottom of the BM. I ended up with 43L of clear 1.057 wort. 

Cleaning was a breeze apart from the elements inside the BM. These had a light coating of break material the needed to be wiped off, a fiddly job as there are so many element coils. I think in the future I might recirculate some warm PBW after a quick hose out while I clean up the rest of the brew gear and aerate / pitch yeast etc. I think this would clean the elements and pumps well. Tipping the unit upside down and quickly dismantling the pumps for a rinse was a breeze.

All in all a very successful brew day. I can see the BM will add a great level of control to my brewing and I'll be able to learn a lot by having predictable gear and repeatable processes. This should allow me to tweak recipes and actually track the differences. 

Anyways, this has been long enough, thanks for reading. Any comments or questions welcome!

Cheers,

Dave.


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## Florian

Congrats on the 50L, for some reason I thought you were getting the 20.

I do like those draw string filters, great idea. Is Mark fabricating them himself?
The last two brews I have sat the malt pipe on top of the unit, as you would do when lautering, then filled in the grain and slowly lowered it into the water. This came as a recommendation from Ralf from Speidel. Works quite well and solves the issue with the floating filter, although those draw string filters seem even easier.

As to cleaning the element, I just use a micro fibre cloth, slide it between the element and kettle, and run it along the element. Works very well, they come up like new. I only use PBW every second or third brew, and to be honest, it makes almost no difference. But if you use it, just switch into manual mode and heat to about 70 degrees, with the pump running. 

As with every new system, it will take you a few brews to fully be able to predict volumes and gravity, but once you got it you're all set.
And even if the brew day still takes the same amount of time, there is just so much time in between to get things done, look after the kids etc., especially when doing five step mashes.

Florian


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## MHB

Dave
Glad you enjoyed your first brew, as Florian said there will be bit of settling in, heres one tip
I leave the top filter in place when I add my sparge water, its helps to distribute the hot water more evenly, disturbs the grain bed less and I find gives a slower more even sparge.
All the latest batch of Braumeisters to arrive have come with the Stainless Steel filters, personally after trying them I prefer the modified fabric filters, without the drawstring they were a PITA to keep flat. To my mind the only really problematic part of the Braumeister design.
A big yes on the repeatability and consistency factor, thats what Braumeister excels at.
MHB


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## yardy

nice pics and explanation, what's a 50lt BM worth if you don't mind me asking ?

cheers


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## mwd

Oh so noice. Forget BIAB and 3v I know what I want. Hmmm what can I sell off.

He He reminds me of Oz and James drink for Britain.


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## davewaldo

Thanks Guys,

Florian: I believe Mark takes the original speidel filter and sews on the drawstring perimeter. It really is a brilliant solution and I think I would prefer this over the new stainless screens. I like the idea of it being held firmly in the perfect position. Thanks for the cleaning tip. I tried using a sponge and brush, but I'll give a micro-fibre cloth a go next time.

MHB: Thanks Mark, I'll have to try it that way next time. The reason I took off the top filter is so I could gently fill in the hole created that runs down the middle of the grain bed formed by the centre rod. I figure the sparge water will just funnel down that hole otherwise. My only concern with leaving the top plate in place would be the water just hitting the top filter then channelling down the sides of the malt pipe. I would like to come up with a system to sparge slower however. I'll leave the plate in next time and see how I go.

Yardy: Thanks mate, I believe the 50L system is going for $3500 at most places now. If you go to MHB you get the customised filters and SS pickup tube included (no affiliation blah blah). EDIT: Might sound expensive but when compared to other automated RIMs of HERMS it is well cheaper and easier to use.

I look forward to the next few brews. I'll pay more attention to volumes so I can really dial things in.

Cheers,

Dave.


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## Bribie G

So when's the demo brewday in Brisbane, guys?  

BIAB brew-off? :super:


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## Florian

BribieG said:


> So when's the demo brewday in Brisbane, guys?
> 
> BIAB brew-off? :super:



system wars? anytime, but it'll be a five step mash pilsener, not a single infusion yorkie or whatever...


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## CONNOR BREWARE

Great post Mate, I was browsing the manufacturers page the other day and you've answered questions I didn't know I had. Was the computer/panel hard to work/get your head around? And do you think the money was well spent?


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## Brewer_010

Far out Dave that looks awesome. Compact, easy to use, repeatability... brilliant. I'm very envious, thanks for the pics and description.


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## Florian

Duke of Paddy said:


> Great post Mate, I was browsing the manufacturers page the other day and you've answered questions I didn't know I had. Was the computer/panel hard to work/get your head around? And do you think the money was well spent?



Attached are the instructions in English, they also explain how to program the unit, it's very simple and easy. Definately money well spent if you ask me (which you haven't). 

View attachment Betriebsanleitung_Braumeister_20l_50l_Maerz_2011_englisch_2_.pdf


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## davewaldo

Duke of Paddy said:


> Great post Mate, I was browsing the manufacturers page the other day and you've answered questions I didn't know I had. Was the computer/panel hard to work/get your head around? And do you think the money was well spent?



Hi Duke, The computer is very straight forward and easy to use. I will need to refer to the manual for the first few brews just to make sure I'm doing it right but I'm sure I'll have it memorised soon. Basically you just program each step temp and its time. You can also use it manually and program a temp and turn on/off the heat or pumps manually. 

As for value for money... Each person has a different value of money and what they want from brewing. Brewing for me was never a financial exercise, I want to brew great beer not cheap beer. So the BM offers me a system that is flexible, stable and repeatable so I can learn and grow as a brewer (and not constantly second guess flavours in my beer as being caused by poor mashing, or other equipment issues). I could have built something for less, but I love the simplicity and lack of pipes and plumbing to harbour nasties of the BM. I want to focus on brewing and not having to constantly tweak and update my system. Also, I have jumped from a relatively cheap system to a costly one. I am a believer in spending money once on quality items. I could have gone through the upgrade path multiple times and spent a similar amount. But I have chosen to spend $3500 now, and I believe the BM will last me a LONG time and I won't have to upgrade or spend money on gas again. So yes, for me I see it is a great investment. I've forgotten the purchase price already. Others may find equal satisfaction from a $500 DIY system, its really and individual thing....


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## davewaldo

Florian said:


> ... if you ask me (which you haven't).


 :lol: Classic!


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## bear09

Im just jealous - but happy for a fellow brewer :lol:


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## rotten

Congrats mate!!

out of curiosity, what are you qualified for now?


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## CONNOR BREWARE

davewaldo said:


> Hi Duke, The computer is very straight forward and easy to use. I will need to refer to the manual for the first few brews just to make sure I'm doing it right but I'm sure I'll have it memorised soon. Basically you just program each step temp and its time. You can also use it manually and program a temp and turn on/off the heat or pumps manually.
> 
> As for value for money... Each person has a different value of money and what they want from brewing. Brewing for me was never a financial exercise, I want to brew great beer not cheap beer. So the BM offers me a system that is flexible, stable and repeatable so I can learn and grow as a brewer (and not constantly second guess flavours in my beer as being caused by poor mashing, or other equipment issues). I could have built something for less, but I love the simplicity and lack of pipes and plumbing to harbour nasties of the BM. I want to focus on brewing and not having to constantly tweak and update my system. Also, I have jumped from a relatively cheap system to a costly one. I am a believer in spending money once on quality items. I could have gone through the upgrade path multiple times and spent a similar amount. But I have chosen to spend $3500 now, and I believe the BM will last me a LONG time and I won't have to upgrade or spend money on gas again. So yes, for me I see it is a great investment. I've forgotten the purchase price already. Others may find equal satisfaction from a $500 DIY system, its really and individual thing....



A strange itching sensation is developing in my eftpos pin pushing finger. For now I'll live vicariously through your post.
Happy brewing.


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## schooey

Heh...these crazy German brewing machines are going to be the next March pump!

You're not a real brewer until.... :beerbang:


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## rude

great pics I would love one of these $3500 you say $4000 here in perth

Hey MHB how much to send one to Perth?


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## davewaldo

rotten said:


> Congrats mate!!
> 
> out of curiosity, what are you qualified for now?



Thanks Rotten,

I'm continuing to run my post production / special effects business for advertising and commercial photography (I just finished Jim Beam's new posters, the bottle smashing the glass of beer around town now). But I'm now also a registered nurse! Can't wait to get into the ER! I'll be doing both jobs over the next few years. 


Thanks all for the comments.


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## goomboogo

When MHB decided to sell these units a few years ago, I wonder if he thought they would actually sell in any real numbers. It just goes to show that if you provide quality products for committed hobbyists then price can be looked at more objectively. This doesn't only apply to the Braumeister but many of the systems being retailed as well as the one-off/diy systems.

Hopefully, it's the first step in a very long journey in highlighting that making your own beer can be about a lot more than merely making 'cheap grog'. Not that I particularly care that much how most people view home made beer.


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## Brewer_010

I've got a question, where does the sparge water come from? Do you still need a separate pot with sparge water or is the unit fully contained including sparging?

Thanks in advance


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## davewaldo

I have a nice little 10L birko urn I use for my sparge water.You don't have to sparge, but you can increase efficiency by doing so.


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## stephenkentucky

Congratulations on your BM, I am up to my 30th brew and just got my excise licence to sell the product so this is a commercial brewery, you are using. The best thing is that I am now achieving absolute repeatability, with the taste and figures backing what I have always believed about this amazing piece of equipment, that this is as capable as any other brewery out there, just a sh*t load easier to clean and maintain. So all you who brew any other way Flame away, your just jealous....


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## sama

i was gonna get one..but bought a boat instead


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## Brewer_010

davewaldo said:


> I have a nice little 10L birko urn I use for my sparge water.You don't have to sparge, but you can increase efficiency by doing so.




OK then, so if you recirculate then you'll get better efficiency? I've downloaded the instructions so I should read them.

My wife is quite impressed with the unit so convincing her of a new $2500 capital outlay is easier for me! Just need to stump up the cash....

cheers
Barry


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## davewaldo

Brewer_010 said:


> OK then, so if you recirculate then you'll get better efficiency? I've downloaded the instructions so I should read them.
> 
> My wife is quite impressed with the unit so convincing her of a new $2500 capital outlay is easier for me! Just need to stump up the cash....
> 
> cheers
> Barry



Yes, but its not the recirculating that does it. For the entire mash the BM recirculates the wort (this is great for clarity and consistency). Then you lift the malt pipe containing the grain. Let it drain, then if you like, sparge / rinse the grain with 10L or so. Its this sparge / rinse that increases the efficiency. Some manage 80% efficiency without this step though.

Dave.


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## stux

Brewer_010 said:


> OK then, so if you recirculate then you'll get better efficiency? I've downloaded the instructions so I should read them.
> 
> My wife is quite impressed with the unit so convincing her of a new $2500 capital outlay is easier for me! Just need to stump up the cash....
> 
> cheers
> Barry



The trick is do you get a 20L or 50L unit which can also do 20L...

I would suspect that if you start making BM beer, your beer will become very popular and you'll eventually want the 50L


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

Florian said:


> system wars? anytime, but it'll be a five step mash pilsener, not a single infusion yorkie or whatever...



Why is it that the most boring beers are the most complicated to make? 

Seriously, it looks fantastic. If I had some spare coin (and produced the quantity of beers wherein this thing would pay for itself) I'd definitely get it.

Still trying to get the kegging system past the minister of War, Finance, Saying No and Arguing about stupid things (big portfolio she has, it tripped the Governor General up when she got sworn in).

Goomba


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## MHB

The Braumeister is constantly recirculating during the mashing process, at the end of the mash you lift the malt pipe and rest it on the supports, during this period most of the sweet water mixed in with the malt drains back into the Braumeister. See second to last pick in Dave's original post. At this time you can do a simple flood sparge if you want to, I just pour about 10 L of 80oC water on top of the malt and let it trickle through the grain. Personally I doubt that it's really a sparge, more just rinsing the sugary sweet water from between the grains.

While the "sparge" water is trickling through, the Braumeister is heating up toward a boil, as it ramps at 1oC/Minute you have a good 15-20 minutes for the bulk of the water to run into the kettle.

I put the Braumeisters' lid on top of a bucket, then just before you reach a boil, lift the malt tube down and put it on the lid, there are a couple of vent slots in the lid. If you are careful you can position the malt pipe so it's over one of the vents and both vents are over the bucket, this lets sweet water drain into the bucket and let's air out. I just leave the malt pipe sitting there for nearly the whole boil. A couple of litres of sweet water will drain into the bucket - just put it back into the boil about 10 minutes from the end if you want to maximise your yield.

One other benefit of doing this is that you're not tempted to put the lid on the Braumeister during the boil! That usually leads to a boil-over and if the lid is otherwise occupied, it's harder to do something dumb (just the once OK)

MHB


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## Bribie G

I thought that the definition of a sparge was - in fact - to rinse the remaining sweet stuff that remains (not between the grains because there aren't any grains as such, having been crushed) - so in that case what does a _real_ sparge do differently?
Not knocking the concept, I hasten to add, I sometimes do a side sparge in a nappy bucket with my BIAB setup and it's a sparrrrgggee.


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## MHB

As well as rinsing the sweet water from between the grain (particles, fragments, grist...) a true sparge is slow enough that sugars inside the grain fragments has time to migrate out into the sparge water, this is driven by osmotic pressure and is a slow process. Honestly I doubt that we are getting much from inside the bits of grain, but the sweet water between is worth having.

MHB


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## Bribie G

Gotcha. 
I was thinking about those concepts today when I did a mashout at 78 degrees and pumping the BIAB mash up and down with the paint stirrer before hoisting for the last time, and wondering what was actually still in there and whether to do a side sparge/pump. Didn't do so but got good efficiency anyway. :icon_cheers:


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## leeboy

Great post. Been awesome to hear a 1st users perspective!


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## proudscum

Love this toy and am more than happy with a 20l model which means i get to brew more beers.Was interesting when i did a no style strong ale that the drill driven crush on my mill gave me lees gravity than the Bass IPA i did by hand milling....may have had something to do with the 6 yr old brewer controlling the drill.The control will make me a better brewer because i know the numbers that should come out the other end when it goes into the fermenter.
I believe that the control of the whole brewing process is what will take good beer to great beer.


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## Brewer_010

thanks for the replies on the method. I'm sold on this, it really looks the business for me - will get one as soon as I can.


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## Florian

MHB said:


> I put the Braumeisters' lid on top of a bucket, then just before you reach a boil, lift the malt tube down and put it on the lid, there are a couple of vent slots in the lid. If you are careful you can position the malt pipe so it's over one of the vents and both vents are over the bucket, this lets sweet water drain into the bucket and let's air out. I just leave the malt pipe sitting there for nearly the whole boil. A couple of litres of sweet water will drain into the bucket - just put it back into the boil about 10 minutes from the end if you want to maximise your yield.



For those who have or are planning to get the 20L, the malt tube fits perfectly into a 19L stockpot, and even a 15L one. it sits elevated like when resting on the unit, leaving plenty of room underneath for wort coming from a flood sparge. once the trickle gets slower you can also prop the tube on an angle, which increases the wort flow again for a while.

Edit: And like proudscum, I do love my 20L, it gets me out into the brewery more often, and it also gives me more chances to tweak my recipes. Plus, the malt pipe is easy to lift and cleaning is very quick, with only one element to clean. Maybe over time when I get my perfect recipes together and spare time becomes more of a novelty I'll bite myself for not getting the 50L, but logistics were against it when I ordered mine.


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## stux

MHB said:


> As well as rinsing the sweet water from between the grain (particles, fragments, grist...) a true sparge is slow enough that sugars inside the grain fragments has time to migrate out into the sparge water, this is driven by osmotic pressure and is a slow process. Honestly I doubt that we are getting much from inside the bits of grain, but the sweet water between is worth having.
> 
> MHB



So, is it more like lautering then?


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## Siborg

OK.... I want one of these soooo bad. I love that I can set my brew rig up anywhere at the moment, but hate that all the vessels take up so much space and are such a PITA to clean. I've been planning to spend my tax return money on a new computer... but I think that will have to wait. I want need a braumeister just so that I can get brewing more often.


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## davewaldo

Stux said:


> So, is it more like lautering then?



My understanding is that lautering is just separating the wort from the grain. I think Mark's use of the word rinsing is probably the best way to describe it unless the brewer rinses very slowly than it would be a sparge.




Siborg said:


> OK.... I want one of these soooo bad. I love that I can set my brew rig up anywhere at the moment, but hate that all the vessels take up so much space and are such a PITA to clean. I've been planning to spend my tax return money on a new computer... but I think that will have to wait. I want need a braumeister just so that I can get brewing more often.



The 20L model would definitely be a set up anywhere system. The only restraint with the 50L is that it needs a 15amp socket.


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## BrewGuru

Okay I have read all the posts on the Braumeister, I am sold!
I purchased the 50l on line this morning, now I can't wait to get back into full mash brewing, I'll be relying on you guys for some good mash recipes.
Can anyone recommend a good brewing software package? I used to use promash.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

Lots of recipes on recipedb. Brewmate is free and works for mash recipes (google it).

Depends on what you want really. Look by rating, and by type of beer you prefer and you won't go wrong.

Goomba


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## humulus

Im sold,Just gotta find some more cash without SWAMBO finding out!Come on tax time!
I wonder how much brewing gear will be for sale in the next 6mths!!!!! :beer: 
Cheers Humulus


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## brianman

While we're talking BM, the control comes programmed for a 5 step light body, if i'm correct, at work at the mo 3am.,so forgive me if i'm wrong. 
Could step mash brewers please add 4-5 step mash schedules for light , medium and full body brews. It's a pity that in these days of high tech. everything, the BM hasn't the capacity to store multiple schedules. I bought a 20l model and now wish i had of bought the 50l with the small malt pipe, oh well, just have to brew more often.
cheers
briby


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## MHB

I'm sure you have worked out that you can put in any 5 step programme you like; you aren't constrained to the default settings. Most of the recipes I sell come with the programming included whether it's an Isothermal mash for an English Ale of a full blown 5 step programmed infusion for a big Bohemian Pilsner, it only takes a couple of minutes to punch it in. Your owners manual comes with all the steps involved but if anyone wants to read up on how the Braumeister works Catch View attachment 46672


MHB


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## yambor44

Hi Mark. I tried to send you a couple of emails and haven't heard back so i thought I would try you here. I would like to purchase 2 of your 50L filters with drawstrings attached shipped to the US. Can you email me at [email protected] ?

Thank you!

Dave, great write up and pictures! Thanks for the heads up on the filters. 

Rob


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## MHB

Sorry, I've just finished moving IP providers and have had to make a heap of changes to accommodate my new website (had about 2000 emails in limbo) and am still catching up. Mind you the new 5,000 mbps microwave broadband is fun 

Be in touch either today or tomorrow at the latest.

MHB


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## Batz

Florian said:


> For those who have or are planning to get the 20L, the malt tube fits perfectly into a 19L stockpot, and even a 15L one. it sits elevated like when resting on the unit, leaving plenty of room underneath for wort coming from a flood sparge. once the trickle gets slower you can also prop the tube on an angle, which increases the wort flow again for a while.
> 
> Edit: And like proudscum, I do love my 20L, it gets me out into the brewery more often, and it also gives me more chances to tweak my recipes. Plus, the malt pipe is easy to lift and cleaning is very quick, with only one element to clean. Maybe over time when I get my perfect recipes together and spare time becomes more of a novelty I'll bite myself for not getting the 50L, but logistics were against it when I ordered mine.




I'll love to see a brew day Florian


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## yambor44

MHB said:


> Sorry, I've just finished moving IP providers and have had to make a heap of changes to accommodate my new website (had about 2000 emails in limbo) and am still catching up. Mind you the new 5,000 mbps microwave broadband is fun
> 
> Be in touch either today or tomorrow at the latest.
> 
> MHB




Thank you Mark. Looking forward to it. I just did a video on using paper clips to hold the filter on. It does great but still leaves some gaps. I think your setup will work the very best.

Rob


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## davewaldo

My second brew on the BM went well yesterday. A Nelson Sauvin ale :icon_drool2: 

This system really produces amazingly clear wort (even if this isn't all that important it looks nice).

I've achieved over 85% efficiency on both of my first brews. Nice!


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## bowie in space

Good on ya Dave. Glad to hear it's getting a good work out :icon_cheers: . 
How many more brews to get your money's worth  h34r: .


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## davewaldo

Not sure about money's worth... but it was never about money 

As far as quality goes, its been well worth the expense!

Its interesting to note that my brew days have actually gotten longer not shorter. I never aimed to save time with this machine, but with the extra time to do ramped and stepped mashes the brew day seems to last about an hour or so longer. I do however have a lot more spare time during the brew day. Yesterday we managed to bottle a whole double batch while brewing another double batch, something we couldn't do previously!


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## Kranky

Does this gizmo make high gravity beers or does it have it's limits like biab?


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## davewaldo

It has its limits, Mark knows better than I. but I'd say 1.065 approx tops for 50L but if you're willing to double mash and use less liquid you could do a lot higher.


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## yambor44

Hi Mark! Is it today or tomorrow yet??  I hope all is well!


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## BrewGuru

My 50L Braumeister arrived to day, I'll give it a dry run with water tomorrow and brew day and woodfired pizzas Sunday Can't wait, I am really looking forward to the consistency thing.
I can't my head around the cloth filters, I am sure it will all work out!


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## MHB

Well itsnearly tomorrow, spent a couple of days catching up with a mate, get back tothe shop and there is a pile of work to do, just worked through the in-box,couple of hundred emails (most of them about my small penis and inability tokeep it up) should be able to pay some more attention to AHB after work butbriefly.

All the newBraumeisters coming through have Stainless Steel filters replacing the fabricones, and you can do fairly high gravity worts on a Braumeister, the highest Ihave ever gone is 1.114 the efficiency goes to shit but thats always the casewith high gravity brewing.

Bunch of PMsthere to read so will be back later

Mark


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## Florian

MHB said:


> and you can do fairly high gravity worts on a Braumeister, the highest Ihave ever gone is 1.114 the efficiency goes to shit but thats always the casewith high gravity brewing.



I think it's worth pointing out again (Dave has already mentioned it) for people who are not that familiar with the Braumeister, that yes, you can produce high gravity wort, but not a full 50L on a single run through (your normal program). The Braumeister is designed to produce wort which will give you a 'normal strength' (5-6 ABV max), as the malt pipe can only hold a certain amount of grain. To get a higher gravity, you would either have to do a second mash with your runnings from the first mash and a new grist, or you can boil your wort down until you have reached your desired gravity. So if you mainly do high gravity beers _and_ you want full volume high gravity wort with a single program, then the Braumeister might not be the right system for you. If you are happy to double mash, only do big beers occasionally or are happy with smaller volumes, then all is good.

Just something to be aware of and work with I think.


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## stux

Florian said:


> I think it's worth pointing out again (Dave has already mentioned it) for people who are not that familiar with the Braumeister, that yes, you can produce high gravity wort, but not a full 50L on a single run through (your normal program). The Braumeister is designed to produce wort which will give you a 'normal strength' (5-6 ABV max), as the malt pipe can only hold a certain amount of grain. To get a higher gravity, you would either have to do a second mash with your runnings from the first mash and a new grist, or you can boil your wort down until you have reached your desired gravity. So if you mainly do high gravity beers _and_ you want full volume high gravity wort with a single program, then the Braumeister might not be the right system for you. If you are happy to double mash, only do big beers occasionally or are happy with smaller volumes, then all is good.
> 
> Just something to be aware of and work with I think.



So about how many KG of grain do you think you can squeeze into a 50L malt pipe?

I know the manual says "Quantity indications vary according to recipe, whereby the malt quantity is between 4-5/ 9-11 kg"

and

"adding more malt than recommended optimal amounts leads to strongly compressed malt and poor extraction. "

So, 11KG?

BUT how much can you really squeeze in and at what point would your efficiency losses negate the additional grain?

Which is why you end up doing two mashes...


----------



## schooey

This is where the playing around and thinking outside the square bit come into play... Normally, you would add the malt pipe and bottom filter plate, then add your water and heat it. Once at strike tem, you would stir in the grain and then add your top filter plate and lock it all into place. With this method I have squeezed in just under 12kg of grain and with all that grain, got away with having enough water to complete a circuit for the mash to knock out a 35L batch. This works out to be about 1.077-78 OG, and with proper attenuation, is going to give me an ~8% beer. Not something I'm going to brew 35L of every week...

BUT...

There is more...

In the past, I have been known to put the malt pipe in, put in the bottom filter plate, tip in my grist, give it a shake to settle it all down, tip in a bit more, repeat, repeat blah blah until I've squeezed a tad under 13 kg of grain in there. Then I add the top filter plate, upside down so the little tube on it goes down instead of up, and then fill with my water. Now there a a couple of lessons I've learnt here...

First, the idea of the little tube on the filter plate is to make the filter plate sit about 30mm below the top of the malt pipe so when the grain expands a little, and the filter plate flexes a little, the grain still stays entrapped in the malt pipe. When it's turned over the other way, when the plate flexes, a little gap can open and let some grain out... so on the rare occasion that I am doing this, I put a smaller packer between the filter plate and the retaining bar to keep it just below the top of the malt pipe.

The astute among you that are still following on are probably about to open the quick reply box and start a tirade about grain bed compaction and doughballs... well the doughball thing is not so bad because I have a stiff bit of wire that I put in through the holes in the filter plate about a million times to break up the mash. I'm not sure it's such an issue with a constant recirculation system anyway. And I have gotten the same efficiencies as I used to when I had a conventional style MT with a standard FB, and also similar to when I had an esky with a manifold.

Doing the second method can be a bit of a juggle though... when doing this, it's only an educated guess what my pre boil gravity will be, and then a couple of quick calculations as to what the post boil will be so I can calculate the amount of hops and adjust IBU's etc.. but like I said, I only do this once in a blue moon when I'm doing a huge beer. I have used this method to get a RIS out at a tad over 1.097 and ended up with about 26L after a 2 hour boil. With a couple of sugar additions in the ferment, it was pretty heart warming stuff... 

So yeah, in short, you can do a high gravity beer, but it's just a little trickier than if you had a big arse esky... And honestly, if I wanted to do a 18L batch of 13% Belgian Strong or a 15% Barley Wine, I'd just mash in my old esky and run it into my braumeister to boil.


----------



## davewaldo

WOW! Just tasted my first BM brew and I'm impressed. I wasn't expecting the BM to significantly improve my brewing as I thought I was doing a good job of controlling processes on my 3v system. I was mainly wanting consistency from the BM. 

But my first brew (a Golden Ale) is the best pale beer I have brewed! It has some great malt flavour I had never managed to achieve in the past, and it also lacked a certain flavour (twang) I have been trying to get rid of for some time (would appear in all my pale beers)!

I don't know why, but this first brew tastes great! Significantly better than my previous attempts and its still very green. The BM is the only process I have changed. Its such an easy drinking, tasty brew. It could do with some more hop flavour / aroma but at the moment it is a very balanced beer which is what I like. Its fallen nice and bright with the aid of polyclar and cold crashing.

I'm a very happy camper! 

Sorry the pic is so bad, bloody iphone.....


----------



## rotten

Well done mate :icon_chickcheers: 

Happy Camping


----------



## BrewGuru

I gave the BM a run last Sunday, had a little hiccup, didn't realise that the bottom seal on the malt pipe had come a drift slightly, waited for 35 minutes waiting for the malt to start pumping up through the malt pipe, being my first run I had no idea how long this would take.
When the penny dropped, we had to pull the malt pipe out with 10kgs of saturated grain, hold it in the air while my mate quickly re instated the seal.
We lost probably the first part of the mashing program and about 500ml of malt. end result was still good with an OG of 1048, taste out of the hydrometer, was very promising. You gotta love the Braumeister!!


----------



## banora brewer

Just put my deposit down for a 20ltr, can't wait


----------



## HomeBrewDan

I wonder how many people on this forum have these units and weather its worth making a new forum section dedicated to them? I am looking at getting one too and would like an easy way to keep track of the developments surrounding them via this forum. 

Thoughts?


----------



## Siborg

If all goes well, I'll be getting mine this weekend. Can't wait as I'm looking forward to getting brewing again.


----------



## proudscum

Siborg said:


> If all goes well, I'll be getting mine this weekend. Can't wait as I'm looking forward to getting brewing again.



Will have to get a commission from John on that one.Must have been the 5 minute spiel i gave you before the swap last Saturday.if i can help you with anything pm me and we can talk or help you with your first brew. 

cheers SCum


----------



## Siborg

Just picked my braumeister up from G&G - along with some fresh galaxy flowers. Gonna put down a galaxy pale ale. :icon_drool2: 

So shiny.... so beautiful


----------



## razz

Siborg said:


> Just picked my braumeister up from G&G - along with some fresh galaxy flowers. Gonna put down a galaxy pale ale. :icon_drool2:
> 
> So shiny.... so beautiful


In my best John Cleese voice.............you bastard!


----------



## bullsneck

Siborg said:


> Just picked my braumeister up from G&G - along with some fresh galaxy flowers. Gonna put down a galaxy pale ale. :icon_drool2:
> 
> So shiny.... so beautiful



Tax return come through? Nice work. Did you go the 20L? Get a jacket?

Did my pale reignite a little Galaxy love?


----------



## Siborg

a shit... forgot to grab the jacket. might order it online later. Your galaxy pale= stronger love for galaxy

I was thinking of grabbing a little and then he showed me the fresh batch they just got in. I was like "f**k it, I'll take 500g"


----------



## Siborg

No point starting a new thread, so I thought I'd contribute:

Did my first brew yesterday. Went well except I accidentally entered my boiling hops as 45 mins as this was my adjusted addition due to no-chilling. Ie. I still wanted to boil for 60mins, not 45 as I noticed it started counting down from 45mins. This was easy enough to resolve. I just stopped the automatic procedure and switched to manual. I set 60 mins on my iphone count down and just did it that way. Too easy

One thing I couldn't get over is how clear the wort was. I noticed that when the pump rested, the wort in the malt pipe resided. I hope that's not due to a dodgy seal. Could have just been back flow from the pump?

Boil was vigorous enough. Could possibly have been a bit stronger with the use of a jacket maybe. I topped it up a couple of times during the boil with some boiling water from the kettle. I didn't do a sparge, which I might do next time to avoid having to add boiling water later. 

I struggled a little with cleaning, but I should have just tipped it all out, rather than filling a bucket, tipping, and emptying. Was just scared to pick it up, which I'll do next time. Got it all nice and shiny at the end.

Overall, I'm very satisfied with my purchase. Was really good to not have to run around with hot/cold water to adjust mash in temps. Will be good to try a few different mashing regimes on it. I have always wanted to do some step mashing, but couldn't be bothered. Now I can. I'll post some pics later on.


----------



## Mearesy

Nice! I ordered mine yesterday... cannot wait!


----------



## davewaldo

Sounds great Siborg,

Yep, when the pumps turn off the liquid will flow back to level through the pumps. Sounds like all went well, I look forward to seeing your pics. Did you get a 50L model?

Dave


----------



## BrewGuru

Just put down my third batch, Its too easy, very efficient and consistent, just ordered a Blichmann Hop rocket as well, can't wait until its all complete, Its been a long hall from 12 years ago trying to mash with an eski and a tea strainer


----------



## davewaldo

Nice Setup BrewGuru!


----------



## Florian

Congrats on your maiden brew!!




Siborg said:


> I noticed that when the pump rested, the wort in the malt pipe resided. I hope that's not due to a dodgy seal. Could have just been back flow from the pump?



perfectly normal, nothing to worry about. The pump rests are a way of mixing up your grain bed to avoid chanelling. You will see that the wort is less clear after the breaks. There are no rests during the last half hour or so to give you as clear wort as possible.


----------



## bevdawg

davewaldo said:


> Nice Setup BrewGuru!



Cool looking set up! Where are all the hoses going? I'd like to know how you have it all set up, looks great.


----------



## pmash

perfectly normal, nothing to worry about. The pump rests are a way of mixing up your grain bed to avoid chanelling. You will see that the wort is less clear after the breaks. There are no rests during the last half hour or so to give you as clear wort as possible.
[/quote]


My last brew, a brown ale, half way thru' the mash the pump started rattling and could not raise the grain bed. I paused the cycle, removed the top filters and stirred the crap out of the grist. By the end of the cycle, wort was crystal clear! Boiled and no-chilled.
Pitched 1007 German ale yeast this morning, checked SG at 1.056, Beer Tools Pro suggested 1.051.....happy days...  

Gotta luv 'da meister


----------



## BrewGuru

bevdawg said:


> Cool looking set up! Where are all the hoses going? I'd like to know how you have it all set up, looks great.



I had brewed the first two brew just with the braumeister, immersion chiller and the standard plastic fermenters, when I set this up it was just to get my head around how all this new stuf fwas going to work, I didn't want to fix anything permanently beacause of cleaning and sanitizing issues.
The hoses: Heavy duty silicon hose from Braumeister to the pump, then pump to plate chiller, plate chiller to the inline thermometer, then to fermenter, waste from plate chiller to sink for wash up. I'll be adding the hop rocket between the braumeister and the pump with the next brew.


----------



## Malted

BrewGuru said:


> I had brewed the first two brew just with the braumeister, immersion chiller and the standard plastic fermenters, when I set this up it was just to get my head around how all this new stuf fwas going to work, I didn't want to fix anything permanently beacause of cleaning and sanitizing issues.
> The hoses: Heavy duty silicon hose from Braumeister to the pump, then pump to plate chiller, plate chiller to the inline thermometer, then to fermenter, waste from plate chiller to sink for wash up. I'll be adding the hop rocket between the braumeister and the pump with the next brew.



Why the hood? Are you venting the boil steam outside with ducting?
Got temperature control for the bling ferementer?


----------



## BrewGuru

Malted said:


> Why the hood? Are you venting the boil steam outside with ducting?
> Got temperature control for the bling ferementer?



Four reasons for the hood
1: Looks Cool
2: Great for funnelling the grist into the malt pipe
3: I get a better rolling boil
4: Looks Cool

No temp control for the bling, with the chiller plate it knocks the temperature from 100oC to 20/21 into the fermenter, yeast can be added immediatly.
I don't get a lot of temperature range with the 50 litre wort, I like the fact that I don't have to use a secondary container after the initional fermenation, I can just dump the trub out of the bottom, I can also easilly harvest yeast.


----------



## proudscum

looks like some more toys to play with i like the plate chiller and pump idea .


----------



## Malted

*Boil off rates and boil volumes?*
I reckon there are a few Braumeister guys who are also BeerSmith users too. How have you got your equipment profile set up? I do not own a Braumeister but was planning some recipes just in case...

I am trying to setup an equipment profile for a 50L Braumeister in Beersmith 2.0. It has raised some questions. Here's a dud profile:




As far as I know you can only fit a maximum of 55L of water on top of a full malt pipe. Spiedel say you turn out 50 Litres of finished beer, so if we drop a litre or two for trub, the Braumeister is churning out 53L of hot wort after the boil. That is a boil off of 3.6% which is well short of an expected 10% for a vigorous boil (not to mention cooling loss). 
Is the Braumeister boil not vigorous or do you add more water after you pull the malt pipe out? 
In the picture above, Beersmith was predicting a preboil volume of 63.5 L. Would you add 8.5L of sparge water, or top up water?


----------



## humulus

proudscum said:


> looks like some more toys to play with i like the plate chiller and pump idea .


 :icon_drool2:


----------



## davewaldo

Malted, that looks pretty good mate. I'm still sorting all these things out myself. But I've found I can fill my BM with about 58L and then add the malt pipe and grain. With 10% boil off and losses I get very close to 50L.

The boil of my BM isn't particularly vigorous, but I do get the required evaporation rate so I'm happy. It is a very gentle rolling boil without insulation and good rolling with insulation (this was on a cold day). I think Speidel has designed to the BM so that the element is just the right size so it doesn't need to switch on and off to control the boil. It just boils very consistently which is most important. 

But I've only done two brews so I'm still learning.


----------



## MHB

Just in case someone hasnt noticed, when you do the programming youre boil is set at 100oC.
Once the boil temp is reached and the clock has started you can push the temperature up arrow to 102oC, basically it turns the element/s on flat ought, really ups the boil and I have no trouble getting the 10% evaporation Im looking for.
I know a lot of brewers think the boil needs to be jumping out of the pot, but that isnt necessary, as long as you get enough evaporation to strip out the volatiles, thats all you need, more energy than that is just wasted and can cause other problems.
MHB


----------



## Malted

MHB said:


> Just in case someone hasn't noticed, when you do the programming you're boil is set at 100oC.
> Once the boil temp is reached and the clock has started you can push the temperature up arrow to 102oC, basically it turns the element/s on flat ought, really ups the boil and I have no trouble getting the 10% evaporation I'm looking for.
> I know a lot of brewers think the boil needs to be jumping out of the pot, but that isn't necessary, as long as you get enough evaporation to strip out the volatiles, that's all you need, more energy than that is just wasted and can cause other problems.
> MHB




G'day Mark, so if left at 100oC what could you expect an average boil off/evaporation rate to be? 
Is it preferable to have a lower evap rate or a 10% evap rate, or is this just dependent upon the gravity you're aiming for?


----------



## MHB

Boiling does a whole bunch of things to a wort (not all of them good) but if you get your 8-10% evaporation I believe you can be confident that you have achieved all the goals.
At 100oC you will get around 8% evaporation (depending on a pile of other conditions), thats probably more than enough but the option is there to pump a bit more energy into the system if you want to.
This is a good basic introduction to Wort Boiling and well worth a read.View attachment 02___The_function_of_wort_boiling1.pdf

Mark


----------



## BierFest

Malted said:


> *Boil off rates and boil volumes?*
> I reckon there are a few Braumeister guys who are also BeerSmith users too. How have you got your equipment profile set up? I do not own a Braumeister but was planning some recipes just in case...
> 
> I am trying to setup an equipment profile for a 50L Braumeister in Beersmith 2.0. It has raised some questions. Here's a dud profile:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I know you can only fit a maximum of 55L of water on top of a full malt pipe. Spiedel say you turn out 50 Litres of finished beer, so if we drop a litre or two for trub, the Braumeister is churning out 53L of hot wort after the boil. That is a boil off of 3.6% which is well short of an expected 10% for a vigorous boil (not to mention cooling loss).
> Is the Braumeister boil not vigorous or do you add more water after you pull the malt pipe out?
> In the picture above, Beersmith was predicting a preboil volume of 63.5 L. Would you add 8.5L of sparge water, or top up water?




Hi Malted,
Did you ever get your beersmith parameters nailed down? Im ordering my braumeister and I intend to use with Beersmith. Like you I'm also getting the 50l version. Did you also get the 20l malt pipe insert - if so did you also figure out the parameters for this?
Hopefully it will not be too difficult to try to figure these out - but i suspect that its quite a bit of work.
Brian


----------



## Malted

BierFest said:


> Hi Malted,
> Did you ever get your beersmith parameters nailed down? Im ordering my braumeister and I intend to use with Beersmith. Like you I'm also getting the 50l version. Did you also get the 20l malt pipe insert - if so did you also figure out the parameters for this?
> Hopefully it will not be too difficult to try to figure these out - but i suspect that its quite a bit of work.
> Brian



G'day Brian, no I have not yet nailed down the parameters and have only done one brew so far. I can say that you most definately will need about 10 Litres of 'top up water for kettle' - so it may as well be tipped through the grain/malt pipe for a pseudo sparge. As other pointed out to me, you will lose some of your initial water volume when you lift out the malt pipe (due to the amount of water held by the wet grain) as well as evaporation and cooling loss.


----------



## BierFest

Malted said:


> G'day Brian, no I have not yet nailed down the parameters and have only done one brew so far. I can say that you most definately will need about 10 Litres of 'top up water for kettle' - so it may as well be tipped through the grain/malt pipe for a pseudo sparge. As other pointed out to me, you will lose some of your initial water volume when you lift out the malt pipe (due to the amount of water held by the wet grain) as well as evaporation and cooling loss.



I guess I will have to work on the beersmith parameters too!
Are you starting out with about 55 Litres of water before you add malt? You are then adding in 10Litres pre-boil - Does that leave you with a bit over 50 Litres post boil?

Im ordering mine soon - I guess the best way to figure it all out is by me actually doing a few brews on it!


----------



## Malted

BierFest said:


> Are you starting out with about 55 Litres of water before you add malt? You are then adding in 10Litres pre-boil - Does that leave you with a bit over 50 Litres post boil?



Yes, Yes (post mash/preboil), Supposed to. I gather that it should be 53 or so litres post boil because BM claim that it produces 50L of finished beer (hence the ferementer loss box).

I wonder if my total losses were higher than predicted; I didn't pay enough attention to volumes. I shall have to pay more attention next time. 
I only did a rippling (instead of a rolling) boil at 100oC and I reckon I had hot break or similar occuring on the wort surface during the boil. As Mark says, you can up the temp to 101 or 102 for a rolling boil but I don't see that it would be neccessary. I suspect the cooling loss may have been higher than 4%, either that or because I was a bit slow getting it out of the BM and through the plate chiller it may have continued evaporating as it cooled (I didn't have the lid on so that I could see the trub etc) which could be another 3L or so over another half hour. Clearest wort and best trub cone I have ever witnessed.


----------



## maggotbrain65

Malted said:


> Yes, Yes (post mash/preboil), Supposed to. I gather that it should be 53 or so litres post boil because BM claim that it produces 50L of finished beer (hence the ferementer loss box).
> 
> I wonder if my total losses were higher than predicted; I didn't pay enough attention to volumes. I shall have to pay more attention next time.
> I only did a rippling (instead of a rolling) boil at 100oC and I reckon I had hot break or similar occuring on the wort surface during the boil. As Mark says, you can up the temp to 101 or 102 for a rolling boil but I don't see that it would be neccessary. I suspect the cooling loss may have been higher than 4%, either that or because I was a bit slow getting it out of the BM and through the plate chiller it may have continued evaporating as it cooled (I didn't have the lid on so that I could see the trub etc) which could be another 3L or so over another half hour. Clearest wort and best trub cone I have ever witnessed.




Hi , 

any update on the ideal parameters for the 50l & short malt pipe?

Cheers


----------



## SJW

I have just ordered my 20l system from Mark.
So yes fellas, I am back. After a couple of years away from the site


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## proudscum

Filtering my water to fill up my Braumeister for brew day tomorrow.Cant wait to put my 12th brew through this great little system.


----------



## SJW

As the old fellas on this site would know, I love doing stronger German Lagers, so how much grain can I stuff in a 20l unit?


----------



## Batz

SJW said:


> I have just ordered my 20l system from Mark.
> So yes fellas, I am back. After a couple of years away from the site




Well welcome back, it been a while SJW. I'm sure you'll be more than happy with your BM.

Batz


----------



## Malted

SJW said:


> As the old fellas on this site would know, I love doing stronger German Lagers, so how much grain can I stuff in a 20l unit?




Doon states it is his opinion that anything over 5.2kg is a struggle for his system in this thread: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...57118&st=60

Depends on what you mean by 'strong'. I'd say use the minimum amount of water at mash in and sparge/rinse grains as normal so as not to waste sugars. This should get you a 'stronger' wort (as opposed to a 'high gravity' wort which is probably another story).

I tried a barley wine in mine and it didn't go well. I'd flip MHB a phonecall to ask about high gravity brewing on the BM. I think 3 things would come into play (and there may be more):
1: Efficiency is a heck of a lot less than normal
2: You can only fit so much grain in the BM leading to,
3: You'd need a longer boil to reduce the volume and hence the gravity.

But you may not need to go that high and a long boil may not suit a light coloured lager.

I used the short malt pipe in the 50L unit. Next barleywine attempt I will use the 50L malt pipe and a long boil etc to reduce the wort to a high gravity single batch.

EDIT: Mark's attached PDF document on boiling in post #88 above is a good read.

EDIT 2: I did a brew with the short malt pipe with mash in at the top of the bottom markings (25L) and sparged with 12L which at the end of a 60 min boil was less than 25L and put 23L into the fermenter. Ergo, in that particular scenario, 12L was not enough for a sparge/top up to kettle when I had anticipated that 10L would have been sufficient.


----------



## Batz

SJW said:


> As the old fellas on this site would know, I love doing stronger German Lagers, so how much grain can I stuff in a 20l unit?




You need to PM Florian, he has a 20lt BM, he brews only lagers, and he's a German so brews just what your talking about.
I now own a 50lt BM and believe me they are the ducks nutz for brewing lagers and pilsners, of cousre ales are no problem either.

Batz


----------



## doon

5.4 was the biggest bill I have had so far and it wasn't fun. The pump would push the wort up but just not high enough each time. Stirring every pump break sucked arse. 

I was reading on homebrew talk that someone with 20l was mashing with 22-23 litres then sparging with 10l to get 27-28 per boil might give this a go next brew as I have been mashing with 25 and sparging with 6. Think I am going to cut down to mash in/mash/mash out too unless I brew a style that really needs all the rests


----------



## Malted

doon said:


> Think I am going to cut down to mash in/mash/mash out too unless I brew a style that really needs all the rests



Yeah you really need to know what you are wanting to achieve from 5 steps. Most "modern modified malts" don't require... yada yada yada. So it may be pointless doing five steps. But I figure it can't hurt so do them anyway, since I can. I have been tweaking the values but to be honest need to do a lot more research.


----------



## doon

Yeah I have been doing them just because thats how it was really. Only things I changed were the default temps

Still working out this system so going to see how a simple schedule goes next


----------



## MetalRooster

I have only done about 6 brews on my 20L BM and all were pretty basic single infusion. Have read the following schedule on the massive BM thread at homebrew talk and was planning to give this a crack on the next few for comparison:

Protein rest 15 min @52C
Beta amylase rest 35 min @ 63C
Alpha amylase rest 35 min @ 70C
Mash out 15 min @ 78C


----------



## SJW

As long as I can end up with a corny keg FULL at the end I dont care.
Volumes might be a problem with the 20l but I suspect that eff. is our saviour.
Also has anyone looked at putting a more powerfull pump on these 20l modles, like a March pump?
Also I just jumped on Beersmith and I scaled down my last APA. It would appear that working on 85% efficiency (if thats possible) I should still be able to hit 1.056 with 5kg's of grain (if thats the max it can handle. Does this sound right?
Also what are your numbers for the equipment in Beersmith? I have 85% eff, 24 litres final volume, (I should get 21 litre in the fermenter from that), 10% loss to the boil, and pre boil volume was about 27.5 litres.
How does all dat sound?

Steve


----------



## Malted

SJW said:


> As long as I can end up with a corny keg FULL at the end I dont care.
> Volumes might be a problem with the 20l but I suspect that eff. is our saviour.
> Also has anyone looked at putting a more powerfull pump on these 20l modles, like a March pump?
> Also I just jumped on Beersmith and I scaled down my last APA. It would appear that working on 85% efficiency (if thats possible) I should still be able to hit 1.056 with 5kg's of grain (if thats the max it can handle. Does this sound right?
> Also what are your numbers for the equipment in Beersmith? I have 85% eff, 24 litres final volume, (I should get 21 litre in the fermenter from that), 10% loss to the boil, and pre boil volume was about 27.5 litres.
> How does all dat sound?
> Steve



I really don't think you would want to change the pump. It may not be a high volume pump but I reckon it does the job sufficiently. The 50L BM has 2 of them but they (I believe) are just the same pump as the 20L. THey are very easy to pull apart by hand, no tools needed. Those German Engineers really know their stuff.

As for an efficiency of 85% - I don't reckon you would get that without a sparge. 80% no sparge maybe, above that you'd need to sparge to grab some residual sugar from the grain. The crush will affect this too. Too fine and eff % will go down. You may get more than 10% loss to the boil because cooling loss sneaks up on you too. I use a 50L BM so can't give you specifics for the 20L BM.

Safer to sparge too much rather than not enough. You can always boil longer to reduce volume to increase the SG but if you haven't sparged you may miss those sugars.


----------



## SJW

All sounds good. I thing for me the 20l will be perfect. I have seen every YouTube video on the BM so I feel like a pro and I have not even got mine yet. 
I wonder why they went from the material filter to a mesh screen?
I am now plotting how to restrict the flow while sparging for a more complete/slower sparge.
This is just me trying to improve on near perfection.
I listened to the Basic Brewing podcast by some bloke called Jan, he won brewer of the year in Norway using a 20l BM. Very interesting.


----------



## Thefatdoghead

SJW said:


> All sounds good. I thing for me the 20l will be perfect. I have seen every YouTube video on the BM so I feel like a pro and I have not even got mine yet.
> I wonder why they went from the material filter to a mesh screen?
> I am now plotting how to restrict the flow while sparging for a more complete/slower sparge.
> This is just me trying to improve on near perfection.
> I listened to the Basic Brewing podcast by some bloke called Jan, he won brewer of the year in Norway using a 20l BM. Very interesting.


If you listen to that pod cast the guy talks about how he sparges. He removes the malt pipe screen on top and mixes the grain where the hole was left from the rod in the centre and then he puts the mesh screen back on with perforated screen as well then he sparges. I do this method and I get 84% efficiency every time. As long as I dont go over about 11.4 kg of grain my efficiency stay's at 84%. I would probably stop and stir the mash 3 times during a cycle if I have more than 11kg of grain.


----------



## Malted

SJW said:


> All sounds good. I thing for me the 20l will be perfect. I have seen every YouTube video on the BM so I feel like a pro and I have not even got mine yet.
> I wonder why they went from the material filter to a mesh screen?
> I am now plotting how to restrict the flow while sparging for a more complete/slower sparge.
> This is just me trying to improve on near perfection.
> I listened to the Basic Brewing podcast by some bloke called Jan, he won brewer of the year in Norway using a 20l BM. Very interesting.


I think some folks had issues with the cloth filters moving a bit on the edges. MHB modified them by attaching a drawstring around them. Perhaps this sort of thing is why they went to the mesh screen? 
The sparge isn't super quick anyway - as you would have seen you sit the malt tube up on the bow hook and just tip some water on top with the top filter screen still in place and it helps to spread the sparge water more 'evenly'. It can take 20mins or so for the liquid to stop dripping down. You can always throw a bit in, let it drain and throw a bit more in.
MHB and others have also fashioned a simple pickup tube...


----------



## doon

Yeah I left both top screens on when I sparged the other day and it went a lot slower


----------



## SJW

Can't wait for this bad boy to turn up. I am all pumped about brewing again. After a couple hundered brews on the old system I was loosing my buz to brew.
This could be just what the Doc  ordered

Steve


----------



## Batfink

I'm looking at ordering the 50l BM and have a couple of questions. I mostly brew higher gravity beers (1.060 - 1.110) with a batch size of 15-18 litres which is at the top of what my current cooler-mashtun system can do. I would like to be able to brew about 25 litre batches, so the 20l BM is obviously out of the question. Is there any limitation on how small batches you can brew with the 50l and what is the point with the 20l maltpipe? Can't you just brew smaller beers in the 50l pipe?


----------



## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_

Batfink said:


> I'm looking at ordering the 50l BM and have a couple of questions. I mostly brew higher gravity beers (1.060 - 1.110) with a batch size of 15-18 litres which is at the top of what my current cooler-mashtun system can do. I would like to be able to brew about 25 litre batches, so the 20l BM is obviously out of the question. Is there any limitation on how small batches you can brew with the 50l and what is the point with the 20l maltpipe? Can't you just brew smaller beers in the 50l pipe?



I'm pretty sure the lowest you can brew on the 50L is 20L. You need to change the malt pipe over to a smaller one.

Have a look here.


----------



## humulus

SJW you wont look back just done my 19th brew on my 20l,i love it!! im getting around 1050-1060 with 5.5kgs of grain.I normally take my top filter off give the grain a stir and sparge with a little watering can,sparge twice stirring the grain each time.
Then remove the malt pipe place it in a bucket and sparge again and use this wort too top up the BM during the boil
Mate MHB is the man if you got any questions.
:beer: glenn


----------



## SJW

humulus said:


> SJW you wont look back just done my 19th brew on my 20l,i love it!! im getting around 1050-1060 with 5.5kgs of grain.I normally take my top filter off give the grain a stir and sparge with a little watering can,sparge twice stirring the grain each time.
> Then remove the malt pipe place it in a bucket and sparge again and use this wort too top up the BM during the boil
> Mate MHB is the man if you got any questions.
> :beer: glenn


Thanks mate, I did my second brew on the weekend, Pilsner Urquell, multi step. Even with me overloading the circuit with the BM heating element on and boiling a jug for the sparge, it was very simple just to switch to manuel mode for the boil. 
I hit 80% Eff. this time too.
I love it.


----------



## MHB

If you have a power interrupt the Braumeister doesnt forget where its up to, there will be two options displayed on the screen Continue and Abort, just push the button under continue and it will pick up where it left off.
Mark


----------



## SJW

Thanks mate. Those Germans thought of everything


----------



## Batz

SJW said:


> Thanks mate. Those Germans thought of everything



Whenever I'm close by and the Braumeister has a pump break, I still lift the lid and watch as the pump starts and marvel at the clarity of the wort. Braumeisters are not for everybody but a Porsche isn't either.  

Batz


----------



## Coldie

Hi Guys - This is my first post so here goes. I have recently purchased a Braumeister 50 plus 20l malt pipe. Earlier in this thread there was a discussion about a Beersmith 2 equipment profile for the Braumeister. Has anyone worked out a profile for the 50l and one using the 20l malt pipe that they would like to share?


----------



## Batz

Coldie said:


> Hi Guys - This is my first post so here goes. I have recently purchased a Braumeister 50 plus 20l malt pipe. Earlier in this thread there was a discussion about a Beersmith 2 equipment profile for the Braumeister. Has anyone worked out a profile for the 50l and one using the 20l malt pipe that they would like to share?




:icon_offtopic: 

What's your location Coldie? 

batz


----------



## Coldie

Batz said:


> :icon_offtopic:
> 
> What's your location Coldie?
> 
> batz




Batz - I live in Perth


----------



## SJW

Me to Batz, I love lifting the lid on a pump break and watching the wort rise up and spill over.


----------



## banora brewer

+1 I love my braumeister


----------



## Batz

Coldie said:


> Batz - I live in Perth




Bugger!


----------



## Batfink

Uuuh yeah! Just payed for my 50l Braumeister yesterday and it will be shipped to me week 12, also got the 20l maltpipe and chiller. Can't wait to get my hands on it! Allready started designing the first brew wich is gonna be a 10,5% DIPA with about a 100 IBUs.


----------



## Malted

Batfink said:


> Uuuh yeah! Just payed for my 50l Braumeister yesterday and it will be shipped to me week 12, also got the 20l maltpipe and chiller. Can't wait to get my hands on it! Allready started designing the first brew wich is gonna be a 10,5% DIPA with about a 100 IBUs.



Maybe try something a bit easier for your first brew with the Braumeister? 10.5% ABV might have to be a 50L batch boiled down to reduce the volume and thus increase the gravity? How long will you have to boil it, who knows, I have done similar and it can be lots of hours. 100 IBU could be a lot of hops which could possibly mean you will lose more liquid to trub (thus less into the fermenter) and get you all confused with volumes? It is all very exciting but I think an easier brew might be a good idea.


----------



## Batfink

Malted said:


> Maybe try something a bit easier for your first brew with the Braumeister?



I dont know, I like to start at the deep end. Infact, I dont think there's a single thing I know to day that I haven't learned through a mistake. I was thinking a 25-30l batch, should there be a problem with that?


----------



## Malted

Batfink said:


> I dont know, I like to start at the deep end. Infact, I dont think there's a single thing I know to day that I haven't learned through a mistake. I was thinking a 25-30l batch, should there be a problem with that?


There is no problem with you wanting to do that and it can be done with a Braumeister without adding extract. You will just have to plan ahead.
Have a read of this thread, you may find it useful in planning your brew: Big Beers for the Braumeister LINK

Let us know what you decide on brewing and how it goes, maybe in the thread I linked to. If you make some mistakes let us learn from them too.


----------



## Batfink

Tnx for the link. After reading a bit I might just take your advise and start with my flagship IPA on 1.065. Could be a little too much working the BM for the first time and keeping track on everything else. I'm shore I will find a way of brewing 1.100 beers (without adding extract of course). Even if i dont belive it cant be done just using the right ratio of grain, water and sparge, before i tried it myself. Those double mashes seems like too much work and i'm afraid it also will effect the consistency when brewing the same beer twice, when there's too many changing factors.


I will keep you updated on what scale of catastrofy the first brew was.


----------



## Batfink

So did my first brew today on the 50 litre with the following recipe:



> Batch size 25 l
> 
> Original Gravity (OG): 1.066 (P): 16.1
> Final Gravity (FG): 1.017 (P): 4.3
> Alcohol (ABV): 6.48 %
> Colour (SRM): 6.7 (EBC): 13.2
> Bitterness (IBU): 70.9 (Average)
> 
> 80.6% Pale Ale Malt
> 10.45% Vienna
> 5.97% Crystal 20
> 2.99% Wheat Malt
> 
> 1.2 g/L Centennial (11% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
> 1.6 g/L Simcoe (14.2% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil)
> 1.8 g/L Columbus (16.7% Alpha) @ 7 Minutes (Boil)
> 
> 0.5 g/L Irish Moss @ 15 Minutes (Boil)




The total amount of water was 39 litres from which i saved 7 litres for sparging. I'm not sure where I went wrong but my OG was way of, hitting 1.046 instead of of my planed 1.066. I used the preset mash schedule but reduced the boil lenght from 90 => 60 minutes. Maybe I should have used the smaller malt pipe for this size of brew? The water/grain ratio was 4,8l /kg.


----------



## SJW

Batfink said:


> So did my first brew today on the 50 litre with the following recipe:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The total amount of water was 39 litres from which i saved 7 litres for sparging. I'm not sure where I went wrong but my OG was way of, hitting 1.046 instead of of my planed 1.066. I used the preset mash schedule but reduced the boil lenght from 90 => 60 minutes. Maybe I should have used the smaller malt pipe for this size of brew? The water/grain ratio was 4,8l /kg.



As previously stated it takes a few brews on these things to get up to speed. I have been brewing for many years on a 3v system and done 100's of brews and while my first couple on the BM were fine it takes a couple of brews to work out boil off volumes, trub losses ect. One thing that caught me out recently was when I sparged I just dumped 9 litres straight in on top of the malt pipe, and what I must of got was some type of channelling as most of the water went straight through without washing the grain properly. Gravity reading of the wort pouring out the bottom of the pipe was near 1.005, but then when I took the malt pipe off to drain onto a bucket with the BM's lid upside down, the runnings slowly moved back up over 1.045. So I nice slow mash rinse/sparge is still essential. Other than that day I hit 85% every time.
Also I find 90min mash and a 90 min boil is the go too.

STEVE


----------



## Florian

Hey, did you shovel all that malt back out of the malt pipe?

Save yourself some work and just remove the top filter plates, then place the malt pipe upside down in a garbage bag or where ever else you want it and remove the pipe.
You then have a perfectly round malt cake, ready to feed to chooks or children.


----------



## SJW

Also the 4.8 to 1 water to grain ratio is fine. Basic Brewing Radio have done talks on this and found with a 90min mash ratios up to 10:1 still convert fine.


----------



## Malted

Florian said:


> You then have a perfectly round malt cake, ready to feed to chooks or children.



Here kiddy, kiddy, kiddies! Er I mean, here chook, chook chook!


----------



## Batfink

Did a second 20 litre batch on the BM yesterday, a Porter with a 5,1kg grain bill. 25 litre strike water and five for sparging and got an OG of 1.065 with a 60 min boil, wich means my efficiency was at 81%. My goal was 1.063 so I was real happy. I stopped the program once by pressing the two arrows simultaneously at the beginning of the maltose rest to stir the mash, but while trying to proceed I somehow f#*ked up and had to start the mash schedule all over again. I guess the 20l malt pipe would have fit a kilo or so more grain, so in my oppinion 20 litre batches of 1.085ish wort shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## alfadog

Batfink said:


> Did a second 20 litre batch on the BM yesterday, a Porter with a 5,1kg grain bill. 25 litre strike water and five for sparging and got an OG of 1.065 with a 60 min boil, wich means my efficiency was at 81%. My goal was 1.063 so I was real happy. I stopped the program once by pressing the two arrows simultaneously at the beginning of the maltose rest to stir the mash, but while trying to proceed I somehow f#*ked up and had to start the mash schedule all over again. I guess the 20l malt pipe would have fit a kilo or so more grain, so in my oppinion 20 litre batches of 1.085ish wort shouldn't be a problem.



Hey Batfink

Do you have the 50L or 20L model?


----------



## mwd

alfadog said:


> Hey Batfink
> 
> Do you have the 50L or 20L model?



He has the 50L see post #129 furthur up the page.


----------



## alfadog

Tropical_Brews said:


> He has the 50L see post #129 furthur up the page.



Cheers Tropical!


----------



## ChookWA

davewaldo said:


> WOW! Just tasted my first BM brew and I'm impressed. I wasn't expecting the BM to significantly improve my brewing as I thought I was doing a good job of controlling processes on my 3v system. I was mainly wanting consistency from the BM.
> 
> But my first brew (a Golden Ale) is the best pale beer I have brewed! It has some great malt flavour I had never managed to achieve in the past, and it also lacked a certain flavour (twang) I have been trying to get rid of for some time (would appear in all my pale beers)!
> 
> I don't know why, but this first brew tastes great! Significantly better than my previous attempts and its still very green. The BM is the only process I have changed. Its such an easy drinking, tasty brew. It could do with some more hop flavour / aroma but at the moment it is a very balanced beer which is what I like. Its fallen nice and bright with the aid of polyclar and cold crashing.
> 
> I'm a very happy camper!
> 
> Sorry the pic is so bad, bloody iphone.....



Hey Dave. Was it a JS Golden Ale clone? Care to share the recipe? I have a BM50 as well and am planning a brew day next weekend and contemplating the Golden Ale.


----------



## Mearesy

This may help:

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&recipe=502


----------



## Thefatdoghead

Batfink said:


> Did a second 20 litre batch on the BM yesterday, a Porter with a 5,1kg grain bill. 25 litre strike water and five for sparging and got an OG of 1.065 with a 60 min boil, wich means my efficiency was at 81%. My goal was 1.063 so I was real happy. I stopped the program once by pressing the two arrows simultaneously at the beginning of the maltose rest to stir the mash, but while trying to proceed I somehow f#*ked up and had to start the mash schedule all over again. I guess the 20l malt pipe would have fit a kilo or so more grain, so in my oppinion 20 litre batches of 1.085ish wort shouldn't be a problem.


I haven't used my 20L maltpipe in my 50L braumeister yet but I can tell you if I put more than 10.6kg of grain in the 50L braumeister maltpipe my efficiency goes from 84% down to 65% or there about's, and there is a really slow circulation through the malt pipe.
I actually forgot about the braumeister the other night while it was going through it's mash and it must have been sitting beeping after mashout for a good hour or so, I dont know why but my efficiency went up to about 87% (efficiency in kettle that is not in fermentor) strange.


----------



## stakka82

Hey guys,

I have recently purchased a 50l Brau and have struggled to find info on the minimum amount of grain that can be used in the large malt pipe? I don't have a 20l malt pipe.

Reason being that my house beer is a 4% APA and off the top of my head at 80-85% efficiency I should only need around 7-8 kgs grain to achieve 50l of say 1042 beer.

Is it just a case of with less grain in the pipe, the bottom filter plate will move upwards during recirc? Or will less grain make a less compact grainbed/mass with the plates in the same place as they would be for a 9-10 kg bill and create channelling and mess with clarity/efficiency??


----------



## stakka82

bump!


----------



## BeerNess

No idea personally but if had that question I would call Mark of Mark's Home Brew shop in Newcastle as I know he's a Braumeister user himself. He's quite a guru. 

Good luck!


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

I'd be interested to see the lowest people could go. I have taken my 25lt pipe to just over 4kg without a lick of trouble. Maybe below 4 would be asking for it. Similar scale up to 50.

You also have the option of diluting preboil or postboil (if the volume would threaten a boilover).


----------



## mikk

stakka82 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I have recently purchased a 50l Brau and have struggled to find info on the minimum amount of grain that can be used in the large malt pipe? I don't have a 20l malt pipe.
> 
> Reason being that my house beer is a 4% APA and off the top of my head at 80-85% efficiency I should only need around 7-8 kgs grain to achieve 50l of say 1042 beer.
> 
> Is it just a case of with less grain in the pipe, the bottom filter plate will move upwards during recirc? Or will less grain make a less compact grainbed/mass with the plates in the same place as they would be for a 9-10 kg bill and create channelling and mess with clarity/efficiency??


I've used 8-8.5 kg in the 50L BM without any issues. A better way to do things though is to use more grain and do a 60L batch instead


----------



## stakka82

Thanks, that is the type of response I was looking for.

8kg should do me just fine, and as mentioned by Mr No tip I also have the option of further dilution post boil. 

How much wort can the 50l comfortably fit with minimal boilover risk? I hear around 55 litres, is this correct?


----------



## Damien13

Just a quicky, Here has been my experience so far with efficiency.
Heff-88 percent but upon looking at spent grain I noticed a fair few uncracked grains. My mill was set about 1.2 mm approx. For my next brew I milled finer at about 1mm and had TERRIBLE efficiency 70 percent.
Both times I have been loading up the 50L with about 11-11.5 kg of grain. For my next brew I have reset my mill to 1.18 and am hoping for a 85 percenter again. Anyone else had this lower efficiency on a finer crush? If so what mill and setting had you rocking again.
Cheers,
Damien


----------



## Damien13

Bueller???


----------



## vorno

I've recently purchased the 50 ltr, done 3 brews and had problems with keeping the boil rolling. Once the temp reaches 100c and starts counting down I set the temp to 102c as advised earlier, but for the whole boil my controller only reaches 99 then cuts off drops to 98c stops boiling b4 the elements click on again and hits 99c etc etc. I tried with the lid on but the same thing happens. Can someone tell me if this is normal or do I have a problem with the controller or thermostat, or both? Last brew I hit my pre boil gravity on the mark but was a few points too low post boil and had the boil off set at 9%. Appreciate any advice
Cheers. Vorno


----------



## Malted

stakka82 said:


> How much wort can the 50l comfortably fit with minimal boilover risk? I hear around 55 litres, is this correct?


I think I had 70L in mine the other day, no problems. The boils are not massively foaming monsters anyway.

Spediel say it will make 50L of _finished_ beer.
Working backwards: This means it would be 50L of beer + loss to yeast in the fermenter so maybe 52 or 53L into the fermenter to yield 50L of finished beer.
This means you would want to allow for trub in the BM so you can have 53L to go to the fermenter, let's say 2-3L. That becomes 56L post boil.
If you conservatively had 10% loss due to evaporation during the boil, that means you would want 56L + 10% of preboil volume for loss to evap = around about 62L preboil.
Chances are that you might have a higher boil off rate than 10%.

Numbers are an approximation only but illustrates that 55L preboil might not yield 50L of finished beer.


----------



## tiprya

vorno said:


> I've recently purchased the 50 ltr, done 3 brews and had problems with keeping the boil rolling. Once the temp reaches 100c and starts counting down I set the temp to 102c as advised earlier, but for the whole boil my controller only reaches 99 then cuts off drops to 98c stops boiling b4 the elements click on again and hits 99c etc etc. I tried with the lid on but the same thing happens. Can someone tell me if this is normal or do I have a problem with the controller or thermostat, or both? Last brew I hit my pre boil gravity on the mark but was a few points too low post boil and had the boil off set at 9%. Appreciate any advice
> Cheers. Vorno


When programming, the last setting is 'Boil temperature" - I set mine to 102 there, and it leaves the heating element on for the full boil (reading 99 ot 100) the whole time.

I don't get a particularly vigorous boil, but my boiloff is about 6% per 30 minutes.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

I was going to post a new thread for these observations/questions, but it seems on topic here...

I've never really had a full handle on my boiloff, so thought I'd do an experiment (with water).

The first interesting thing I found is that *the tie rod is not measuring what it says.* There's a 5l compensation in there. The bottom ring is 20l, not 15l and so on. I can't believe I am the first one to notice this, but I don't remember actually reading it in the manual or on here. Is this common knowledge? Normally I just fill up to '23l' based on the line, but I guess that was 27l. Unless my unit is off, or unless I miscounted 5l (I didn't) I guess they are compensating for trub loss, so when you see it stop at the 20l ring, you'll get 20l of beer and 5l of trub?

I filled to the 20l ring (so actually 25l) and boiled off 4.5l in one hour with my element set at 99, mostly running at 98 (I am in Canberra so water boils low here). That's either 22% or 18% boiloff depending on which volume number you count.

Finally, doing the boiloff test with water, I got a good look at my elements for the first time. From looking at this video, it almost seems like only the centre element is firing?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPIaWkFN2Xo

I don't think have any issues with ramp temps - 1 degree per minute or better, which I understand as the standard. Has anyone else observed their elements?


----------



## tallie

Mr. No-Tip said:


> I was going to post a new thread for these observations/questions, but it seems on topic here...
> 
> I've never really had a full handle on my boiloff, so thought I'd do an experiment (with water).
> 
> The first interesting thing I found is that *the tie rod is not measuring what it says.* There's a 5l compensation in there. The bottom ring is 20l, not 15l and so on. I can't believe I am the first one to notice this, but I don't remember actually reading it in the manual or on here. Is this common knowledge? Normally I just fill up to '23l' based on the line, but I guess that was 27l. Unless my unit is off, or unless I miscounted 5l (I didn't) I guess they are compensating for trub loss, so when you see it stop at the 20l ring, you'll get 20l of beer and 5l of trub?
> 
> I filled to the 20l ring (so actually 25l) and boiled off 4.5l in one hour with my element set at 99, mostly running at 98 (I am in Canberra so water boils low here). That's either 22% or 18% boiloff depending on which volume number you count.


Yes, I've noticed that the volumes on the rod don't line up with what I've actually measured on the 50L BM. It's about 3.5L more on the short malt pipe, which is a little more than what I lose to dead-space and trub after draining. So yes, I also guess it's meant to be an indicator of what you get into the fermenter, but if you're using it to base your expected extract and IBU calculations, it puts your numbers out.

Regarding boil-off, I've never understood why anyone measures it in terms of percentage of starting volume, unless you're brewing exactly the same volume every time. For example, I'm going to get very different figures for a single batch with the short malt pipe compared to a double batch with the regular pipe. I think measuring it in terms of % of whole vessel, or more simply, litres/hour, makes much more sense. In Brisbane, I set my boil to 101 and get just over 4L/h boil off with both the short and regular malt pipe (the latter only tested for one batch so far).


----------



## tiprya

None of those are going to be consistent. Set to the same heating level, you'll boiloff more L/h or % of total, if you start with a smaller volume (more vigourous boil).

You need to have an idea of how your boiloff changes with your starting volume. I know that if I sparge too much, I get quite a different boiloff volume - so my calculations are based on starting with roughly the same pre-boil volume every time (vary sparge amount) so I get consistent final volumes and gravities.


----------



## vorno

tiprya said:


> When programming, the last setting is 'Boil temperature" - I set mine to 102 there, and it leaves the heating element on for the full boil (reading 99 ot 100) the whole time.
> 
> I don't get a particularly vigorous boil, but my boiloff is about 6% per 30 minutes.


Thanks. Was afraid that might be the case as I've also had a go programming the boil temp at 102 and it still jumps between 98 & 99 never reaches 100c after it starts the countdown. Cheers


----------



## Florian

depending on how high above sea level you are you should still get up to 101 at least. 

if you only reach 98-99 then something doesn't seem to be right.


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Florian said:


> depending on how high above sea level you are you should still get up to 101 at least.
> 
> if you only reach 98-99 then something doesn't seem to be right.


Not sure if I understand the 'should' in your post.

The system should be able to hit 101? It can, I just don't set it that high.

I should put it that high? Boil seems pretty decent at 99, that's why I stopped bothered going higher, and never had any DMS issues, so figured it was vigourous enough. We're at 571m and that is supposedly boiling point: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/boiling-points-water-altitude-d_1344.html

I might try a 101 next time and see how it goes. (and lose the boiloff numbers I figured out today!)


----------



## DeGarre

Well my 20L unit has a bottom notch for 15L, then a notch for 20L and top notch is 25L. I measured these once manually so am certain of these, perhaps they have changed the rod type...the litres were slightly off and the top notch is at 26L for my unit. I fill it to that top notch and rinse with further 6L and get to bottle 23L.


----------



## Florian

Mr. No-Tip said:


> Not sure if I understand the 'should' in your post.
> 
> The system should be able to hit 101? It can, I just don't set it that high.
> 
> I should put it that high? Boil seems pretty decent at 99, that's why I stopped bothered going higher, and never had any DMS issues, so figured it was vigourous enough. We're at 571m and that is supposedly boiling point: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/boiling-points-water-altitude-d_1344.html
> 
> I might try a 101 next time and see how it goes. (and lose the boiloff numbers I figured out today!)


sorry, my bad, i only read your post previous to mine and not the older one, interpreted it as if you were having problems with your boil vigour. 
No need to change anything if it all runs well, that's why i put that sea level comment in my post as well.


----------



## dicko

In the BM manual it says the tie down rod in the 20litre model are 15L 20L and 25L marks.
I have measured mine and the marks are one litre more at each mark respectively, so based on this and what I read above, I wouldn't use these marks for water measurement in your brew calculations.
Because my top mark is 26L I use this for mashing and sparge the balance of "water needed" for my recipe. This seems to give me my expected and predictable result for each brew.

Cheers


----------



## Mr. No-Tip

Can another 50l BM owner do a fill test of their rods? I found 5l more, not 1l more as the 20l owners are noting.


----------



## Dan Pratt

When I first started to use my 20 Lt BM my end volumes seemed higher than calculated from the using the markings on the centre rod, so I chagned the way I measure the volume. By entering the height of the water ( measure with steel rule ) into an online volume calc I can now get the right numbers/litres each brew. By now i should have made a cheat sheet for this process.

As for boil of rates - i put the lid on 2/3rds for a vigorus rolling boil, plus I have insulated the unit with some cheap camp matting and set on 102.


Without the matting, very mild boil.
With the matt but without the lid partially over top, medium boil.
With matting and lid 2/3rds over I get a constant rolling vigorus boil. (The evaporated water runs along the lid and drips on the bench which has a cloth the absorb the water)

Has anyone considered to make a hood like the copper ones but by using a stainless steel colander with the base cut out?? Would that work.


----------



## Rurik

Florian said:


> depending on how high above sea level you are you should still get up to 101 at least.
> 
> if you only reach 98-99 then something doesn't seem to be right.





Mr. No-Tip said:


> Not sure if I understand the 'should' in your post.
> 
> The system should be able to hit 101? It can, I just don't set it that high.
> 
> I should put it that high? Boil seems pretty decent at 99, that's why I stopped bothered going higher, and never had any DMS issues, so figured it was vigourous enough. We're at 571m and that is supposedly boiling point: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/boiling-points-water-altitude-d_1344.html
> 
> I might try a 101 next time and see how it goes. (and lose the boiloff numbers I figured out today!)



I live in Canberra & brew on a BM. I do all my boils at 98 with no problems, when I fist got the BM I was worried about it not getting to 100 but then I ended up at the same website you posted. As to the DMS thing I dont think you need to worry about it at the BM scale as the boil produces enough mechanical agitation of the wort to drive it off. Also there was a great fact sheet from the IDB (that I now cannot find) that suggested the most important part of the boil (in relation to DMS) was the reduciton of the wort, it suggested that if some sort of mechanical agitation was used (say pumping the wort and returning it to the kettle through a spray ball) boil temps could be lowered to 80 Deg C*.

* As I cannot find the aritcel on this I will not quote it as gospel. Take it with a grain of salt I could be remembering it wrong.


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## Mr. No-Tip

Rurik said:


> I live in Canberra & brew on a BM. I do all my boils at 98 with no problems, when I fist got the BM I was worried about it not getting to 100 but then I ended up at the same website you posted. As to the DMS thing I dont think you need to worry about it at the BM scale as the boil produces enough mechanical agitation of the wort to drive it off. Also there was a great fact sheet from the IDB (that I now cannot find) that suggested the most important part of the boil (in relation to DMS) was the reduciton of the wort, it suggested that if some sort of mechanical agitation was used (say pumping the wort and returning it to the kettle through a spray ball) boil temps could be lowered to 80 Deg C*.
> 
> * As I cannot find the aritcel on this I will not quote it as gospel. Take it with a grain of salt I could be remembering it wrong.


Sound good, mate, why haven't we seen you at Canberra Brewers?


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## Dan Pratt

just a question on DMS - do you think Speidel would sell or have for sale copper hoods for the 20 & 50lt models if DMS was actually a problem at this scale?

I ask that becuase with the shape of those BM hoods, the evaporation would have to be dripping back into the wort, unless the shape creates otherwise.


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## Brew Matt

Pratty1 said:


> just a question on DMS - do you think Speidel would sell or have for sale copper hoods for the 20 & 50lt models if DMS was actually a problem at this scale?
> 
> I ask that becuase with the shape of those BM hoods, the evaporation would have to be dripping back into the wort, unless the shape creates otherwise.


Not sure wether DMS is a problem at this scale or not (there are different views on this at either end), but vapour does condense and drip back into the wort. Ralf at Speidel has indicated that some sort of an attachment that fits between the BM and the copper hood to catch the condensation and allow it to be diverted elsewhere is an interesting idea, but not economically viable. 

My idea was to have some sort of tray/catchment fitting that goes around the circumference of the BM rim, and diverts the water travelling back down from the copper dome, and allows this to drained via a small outlet (then caught in a cup etc from there).

If anyone has the ability to manufacturer one of these inexpensively, I am happy to share my idea. Perhaps this fitting would replace the rubber piece that currently sits between the BM and the hood? Could be made from injection moulded silicone or plastic (ss or copper would be good, but I expect quite expensive and difficult to do).

Probably more detail than what a home brewer needs to worry about, but if it makes even a very small difference,.....


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## Rurik

Mr. No-Tip said:


> Sound good, mate, why haven't we seen you at Canberra Brewers?



I went once, not my thing. I worked in a HB shop for a few years and am a little over listening to brewers tell each other how good they are. Maybe I got the wrong end of the stick or maybe I am a little sensitive. It is not something that really interests me.


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## razz

I would have thought that adding the cooper to the kettle is similar to partially covering a pot with a lid and the intensity of the boil will increase. A good rolling boil is one of the desirables for driving off DMS.


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## Nibbo

Ever tasted the condensate from the boil? Boiled cabbage. I did a brew day with Matt from Forrest brewery a while ago and this was one of the things pointed out to me. 
After that experience, I don't let the condensate drip back into the boil.


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## Wimmig

I've had various runs with lid, partial lid, no lid etc for trial and error. I think if I did a boil at the normal 101c/102c I do them at, with the BM jacket on and lid on 2/3 or full then it would boil over. Lid off, jacket on the boil is ferocious.


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## mash head

These things do look like the ducks guts. Lots has changed since I was last around here.
I am interested in the wort clarity, are people using good milling practices or is it the way the wort is recirculated through the grain almost like a continual sparge that gets it so clean. Or a bit of both.


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## stakka82

1 mil crack gets crystal clear wort for me every time. I have even mucked up on occasion and gone .7-1.3mm with no efficiency, clarity or wort fountain issues. And yeah, it's like a continual sparge.


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## Malted

Mr. No-Tip said:


> Can another 50l BM owner do a fill test of their rods? I found 5l more, not 1l more as the 20l owners are noting.


I have a 50 and reckon I am way overdue to do this.
I had a situation in which I must have loosened the rod (perhaps due to over tightening the top wingnut and thence needing some force on the rod to loosen it) because it leaked through the base by the rod nut. I tightened the rod nut and reckon I may have over tightened it as the seal inside the BM is bulging from the disc. It was a panic situation as it was full of wort. Might have changed the tie rod markings a little.


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## Edak

Brew Matt said:


> Not sure wether DMS is a problem at this scale or not (there are different views on this at either end), but vapour does condense and drip back into the wort. Ralf at Speidel has indicated that some sort of an attachment that fits between the BM and the copper hood to catch the condensation and allow it to be diverted elsewhere is an interesting idea, but not economically viable.
> 
> My idea was to have some sort of tray/catchment fitting that goes around the circumference of the BM rim, and diverts the water travelling back down from the copper dome, and allows this to drained via a small outlet (then caught in a cup etc from there).
> 
> If anyone has the ability to manufacturer one of these inexpensively, I am happy to share my idea. Perhaps this fitting would replace the rubber piece that currently sits between the BM and the hood? Could be made from injection moulded silicone or plastic (ss or copper would be good, but I expect quite expensive and difficult to do).
> 
> Probably more detail than what a home brewer needs to worry about, but if it makes even a very small difference,.....


What I did for my system is use a piece of FG hose with teeth cut out of it then wrapped my hood with it...

like this: The jaggered edge goes inside so the condensate goes into the channel.
[VVVVVVVVVVVVVV]
[-------------------------]

Pic of my system (which shows the cheap-ass hose, but not how it drains)
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/gallery/image/7175-during-a-boil/

The hose joins at the back, where it drains into a jug. During a 90 min boil I get about 200-300ml condensate in the jug, which is better in there than in by brew! My cheap dome was about $10


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## verysupple

Not sure if this is off topic or not, but don't see the point in starting a new thread for a question that has a) probably been asked many times before (yes I did search just didn't find the answer) and b ) any BM user could answer instantly.

I'm interested in getting a 20 L BM and was watching their bumf videos on their website. Apparently for mid gravity and above beers you do a concentrated boil and then dilute. I currently do concentrated boils on my stove top system and have noticed that although my beers _form _a great head, it lasts no time at all (this is for anything from special bitter to hefe weissbier). Is it something to do with concentrated brews (as was suggested in an episode of either Brew Strong or The Jamil Show on The Brewing Network) or is it more likely to be something more fundamental in my technique? 

FYI: I know how to clean glassware and never had the problem with kit, extract or partial mash beers. It only seems to have happened since I started AG.

EDIT my "b)" turned into an emoticon


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## Dan Pratt

Just buy one, you won't regret it.


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## DeGarre

greg simons said:


> These things do look like the ducks guts. Lots has changed since I was last around here.
> I am interested in the wort clarity, are people using good milling practices or is it the way the wort is recirculated through the grain almost like a continual sparge that gets it so clean. Or a bit of both.


Bit of both but the emphasis on circulation. When I used a very good crush (not floury) the wort seemed to clear quicker:


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## mash head

Thanks for that Degarre, its about as I suspected. That is amazingly clear, I could look at that all day. Its pretty well a wort fountain with the grain trapped under the inner sieve. Impressive. If I wasn't so far advanced with other plans I would seriously consider 1 of these. Its given me some good ideas anyway.


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## Mr. No-Tip

verysupple said:


> Apparently for mid gravity and above beers you do a concentrated boil and then dilute.


I don't know about the head thing, but I wonder if the dilution point could make a difference? Post ferm dilution is very popular with macrobrews. I tried it once when I shot over G on a BIAB, but it's not something I'd aim for.

What I have done many times is added water after sparge, before boiling - yes it's a dilution, but I've not had any noticable correlation to head retention issues with this approach.


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## Wimmig

DeGarre said:


> Bit of both but the emphasis on circulation. When I used a very good crush (not floury) the wort seemed to clear quicker:


Never get tired of that. Clear every single batch!


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