# Taphouse's Hottest 100 Craft Beers 2010



## Fents (27/1/11)

So the results are in : http://craftypint.com/features/post/hottes...e-full-rundown/

whats everyones thoughts on the list? did anyone off here vote? and no im not posting this just to get "kudos" we did well but i just want to know what everyone thinks the list represents.

The big WIN is for the industry in my opinion.


1 McLaren Vale Ale

2 Little Creatures Pale Ale

3 Stone & Wood Draught/Pacific Ale

4 Feral Hop Hog

5 Kooinda Pale Ale

6 Matilda Bay Fat Yak

7 White Rabbit Dark Ale

8 James Squire Golden Ale

9 McLaren Vale Dry

10 Hawthorn Pale Ale

11 Little Creatures Bright Ale

12 Coopers Pale Ale

=13 Holgate Temptress Chocolate Porter

=13 Mountain Goat Hightail Ale

15 Murrays Icon 2IPA

16 Endeavour 2010 Reserve Pale Ale

17 Knappstein Reserve Lager

18 Hargreaves Hill ESB

19 White Rabbit White Ale

20 James Squire Amber Ale

=21 Moo Brew Pale Ale

=21 Nail Brewing Clout Stout

23 Matilda Bay Alpha Pale Ale

24 Nail Brewing Nail Ale

25 Red Hill Imperial Stout

26 Coopers Sparkling Ale

27 Endeavour 2010 Reserve Amber Ale

28 Murrays Spartacus

29 Mountain Goat Double Hightail.

30 Holgate ESB

31 Mountain Goat Steam Ale

=32 Bridge Road Brewers B2 Bomber

=32 Little Creatures Rogers

34 True South Summer Ale

35 Red Hill Scotch Ale

36 Matilda Bay Beez Neez

37 Jamiesons The Beast IPA

38 Boatrocker Alpha Queen

39 Hawthorn Amber Ale

40 Bridge Road Chevalier Saison

41 Feral White

42 Lord Nelson Brewery Three Sheets

43 Burleigh Brewing Black Giraffe

44 Bridge Road Brewers Galaxy Single Hop IPA

45 Murrays Heart Of Darkness

46 Bridge Road Brewers Bling IPA

=47 Matilda Bay Big Helga

=47 True South New World Pilsner

49 2 Brothers James Brown Belgian Ale

=50 Moo Brew Imperial Stout

=50 Murrays Grand Cru

=50 Murrays Punch & Judy

=53 3 Ravens 55

=53 Mountain Goat Rare Breed Double IPA

55 Feral Fanta Pants Imperial Red Ale

56 2 Brothers Growler

57 2 Brothers Voodoo

=58 Little Creatures Pilsner

=58 Murrays Wild Thing

=60 Matilda Bay Dogbolter

=60 True South Dark Ale

=62 Holgate Hopinator

=62 James Squire Porter

=62 Red Hill Christmas Ale

=65 Bridge Road Brewers Beechworth Australian Ale

=65 Little Creatures Single Batch Brown Ale

=65 Moo Brew Hefeweizen

68 Steam Exchange Truffles Porter

=69 Bridge Road Beechworth Pale Ale

=69 Goodieson Brewery Pale Ale

=69 James Squire Pilsener

=69 Red Hill Temptation

=73 Boatrocker Hoppbier

=73 Burleigh Brewing 28 Pale Ale

=73 Matilda Bay Redback Original

=73 Murrays Whale Ale

=77 Brew Boys Ace of Spades

=77 Coopers Vintage 2010

=79 Feral Boris Russian Imperial Stout

=79 Mountain Goat Rare Breed IPA

=79 Murrays Nirvana

82 Stone & Wood Pale Lager

=83 Arctic Fox American Pale Ale

=83 Kosciuszko Pale Ale

=83 Pepperjack Ale

=83 Red Duck Bengal IPA

=87 James Squires Sundown Lager

=87 Red Hill Weizenbock

89 Feral Raging Flem

=90 Feral Funky Junky

=90 Grand Ridge Moonshine

=92 3 Ravens USB

=92 True South Red Truck Lager

=92 Wicked Elf Pale Ale

=95 Balmain Brewing Pale Ale

=95 Hargreaves Hill Pale Ale

=95 Holgate Road Trip IPA

=95 Holgate White Ale

=95 Little Creatures Single Batch IPA

100 Bridge Rd Chevalier Bier de Garde


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## .DJ. (27/1/11)

it just goes to show thats it a popular vote (generally) and not a true indication of the "best" "craft" brewed beers... Hence 2 Mclaren Vale Beers in the top 10..

Personally, Matilda Bay, James Squire etc dont belong on this type of list...


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## .DJ. (27/1/11)

oh and well done Fents!


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## MarkBastard (27/1/11)

.DJ. said:


> it just goes to show thats it a popular vote (generally) and not a true indication of the "best" "craft" brewed beers... Hence 2 Mclaren Vale Beers in the top 10..
> 
> Personally, Matilda Bay, James Squire etc dont belong on this type of list...



They belong there more than Coopers Pale Ale.


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## outbreak (27/1/11)

McLaren Vale Ale as number 1.... looks like marketing wins.


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## Hatchy (27/1/11)

I was wondering about coopers & little creatures being on there until I saw matilda bay & squires. I'd like to know how lion nathan & cub got on the list. There's a lot of beers on that list that aren't available in Adelaide (that I've seen).

Edit: yes, that was a hint that I'd like to see some Kooinda here. I was at the Wheaty on Monday & Jade was saying she'd love to sell it there. Nice work on 5th spot fellas.


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## MarkBastard (27/1/11)

Hatchy said:


> I was wondering about coopers & little creatures being on there until I saw matilda bay & squires. I'd like to know how lion nathan & cub got on the list. There's a lot of beers on that list that aren't available in Adelaide (that I've seen).
> 
> Edit: yes, that was a hint that I'd like to see some Kooinda here. I was at the Wheaty on Monday & Jade was saying she'd love to sell it there. Nice work on 5th spot fellas.



It's craft beer not independently made beer or micro-brewed beer.

I don't think Coopers Pale Ale is a craft beer but I do think JS and Matilda Bay make some craft beers. Little Creatures exclusively make craft beers.


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## Hatchy (27/1/11)

Mark^Bastard said:


> It's craft beer not independently made beer or micro-brewed beer.
> 
> I don't think Coopers Pale Ale is a craft beer but I do think JS and Matilda Bay make some craft beers. Little Creatures exclusively make craft beers.



& the difference between craft beer & any other beer is..........


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## geoff_tewierik (27/1/11)

Just did a queck check, I've had about half of the field over the last couple of years.


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## Aus_Rider_22 (27/1/11)

Hatchy said:


> & the difference between craft beer & any other beer is..........



According HomeBrew-Center, _An American term which refers to beer brewing using traditional methods. This type of beer is brewed to be distinctive and flavorful rather than appeal to everyone._

I guess it comes down to whether 2 fairly different beers (ie JS IPA vs Hahn Super Dry) that are made by the same company (Lion Nathan) can be separated on quality or grouped by owner?


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## Effect (27/1/11)

geoff_tewierik said:


> Just did a queck check, I've had about half of the field over the last couple of years.



interesting, only one brewboys, no lobethal bierhaus and no steam exchange...yet coopers gets 2 places...

Yeah Fents, I was talking to Jade with Hatchy. Why can we get brewdog, mikkeller and nogne o on tap at the wheatsheaf, yet we can't get kooinda? I'll drive down personally in my van to pick up some kegs...


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## Aus_Rider_22 (27/1/11)

Phillip said:


> interesting, only one brewboys, no lobethal bierhaus and no steam exchange...yet coopers gets 2 places...
> 
> Yeah Fents, I was talking to Jade with Hatchy. Why can we get brewdog, mikkeller and nogne o on tap at the wheatsheaf, yet we can't get kooinda? I'll drive down personally in my van to pick up some kegs...



Just out of interest mate, what Brewdog beer was on tap and where? Cheers.


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## hsb (27/1/11)

<snip> Confused by Craft brew definition am I but seems to be anything marketed as such??


I like the Moo Brew stuff from the list, haven't had that many of the others, at least memorably so. Hated the Holgate stuff for example. The Fat Yak was hoppy but not doing it so much for me. Subjective taste/memory ahoy..


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## Effect (27/1/11)

Aus_Rider_22 said:


> Just out of interest mate, what Brewdog beer was on tap and where? Cheers.



don't know which ones, can't remember they will be on tap at the wheatsheaf in the coming weeks (maybe days, or they could be on tap at the moment). I think that it might be I hardcore you...but had a few drinks whilst I was talking to Jade so memory is a bit hazy. I think they will be having 2 different beers and a few kegs of them...

Cheers
Phil


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## MarkBastard (27/1/11)

Hatchy said:


> & the difference between craft beer & any other beer is..........



If you don't know the difference not sure I can help you. There's probably a 'top 100 beers' list including all the non-craft ones with crap like Corona sitting right up the top.


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## JonnyAnchovy (27/1/11)

outbreak said:


> McLaren Vale Ale as number 1.... looks like marketing wins.




Reading between the lines on the taphouse blog, this is basically what they suggested....


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## Hatchy (27/1/11)

Phillip said:


> interesting, only one brewboys, no lobethal bierhaus and no steam exchange...yet coopers gets 2 places...
> 
> Yeah Fents, I was talking to Jade with Hatchy. Why can we get brewdog, mikkeller and nogne o on tap at the wheatsheaf, yet we can't get kooinda? I'll drive down personally in my van to pick up some kegs...



Steam Exchange Truffles is on there & coopers got 3 spots with sparkling, pale & vintage. Brewboys certainly didn't put in any effort to get people to vote for them. I drink there every weekend & hadn't heard about this until this morning.

I'm happy to share the driving to pick up some Kooinda.


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## brett mccluskey (27/1/11)

Mark^Bastard said:


> If you don't know the difference not sure I can help you. There's probably a 'top 100 beers' list including all the non-craft ones with crap like Corona sitting right up the top.


Everone's going to have their own opinion about what constitutes a 'craft' beer.... but what was the criteria set by the Taphouse? If they fit within the criteria then all's fair as far as i'm concerned  Some there that i agree with,some i wonder about.....


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## .DJ. (27/1/11)

I think their criteria was "_not brewed by CUB/Lion Nathan/Fosters MAIN operations_"...

not that I personally agree with that criteria...


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## MarkBastard (27/1/11)

toper1 said:


> Everone's going to have their own opinion about what constitutes a 'craft' beer.... but what was the criteria set by the Taphouse? If they fit within the criteria then all's fair as far as i'm concerned  Some there that i agree with,some i wonder about.....



Fair enough.

To me it's probably sort of hard to define in words, but I can easily try a beer and say whether it's craft or not.

In this country, almost everything that isn't a mega lager is a craft beer. I wouldn't call Coopers Pale Ale a craft beer though. It's megaswill albeit half descent mega swill. James Squire IPA may not be the most hardcore IPA around but I still think it's a craft beer.

Where it gets interesting is JS Golden Ale. I definitely would have used to have called it a craft beer, but it gets more and more megaswill tasting by the day and the last one I have I certainly wouldn't call a craft beer.

I think craft beer is a very broad term and it doesn't have a lot to do with the ownership status of the brewery.


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## Hatchy (27/1/11)

I'd prefer to see a top 100 microbrewed beers & see what would've made it into the top 100 once the lion nathan, cub, coopers & little creatures were taken out.

It's much easier to define a microbrew than a craft beer.


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## MarkBastard (27/1/11)

Hatchy said:


> It's much easier to define a microbrew than a craft beer.



True, but what about the small batches that JS do at their brew pubs? Would they count? Is it batch size or wallet size of the owner?


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## Maxt (27/1/11)

What a joke, not one Wig and Pen beer.


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## Fents (27/1/11)

Maxt said:


> What a joke, not one Wig and Pen beer.



But did you personally vote for a wig and pen beer?


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## bum (27/1/11)

Well done to you and the boys, Fents! Well deserved.

My thoughts on the list? Looking through the 100 beers I've had 56 of them. Liked less than half and would have bothered voting for extraordinarily few of those. Surprised some I like finished so high and not at all surprised some tops beers ended up very low or didn't end up being included at all.

My thoughts on the local fallout? Not sure we (Australia) could support a Top 100 list without the inclusion of those (apparently) contentious beers we can get at Woolies.


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## DU99 (27/1/11)

Nice to see True South get a mention


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## fcmcg (27/1/11)

I do wonder if the "larger" brewers will read this and take note that the top ten are all ales......Probably not lol
And i'd really hate to think what a mega-swill , mass market pale would taste like...
My 2C
Cheers
Ferg


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## brett mccluskey (27/1/11)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> To me it's probably sort of hard to define in words, but I can easily try a beer and say whether it's craft or not.
> 
> ...


Mark,I couldn't agree more,apart from CPA,  I know what you mean about the' dumbing down" of a lot of beers that seems to occur over time  The yanks go for the brewery size and production scale to define craft,and i wonder about that one.I don't think there's ever going to be a consensus on what's a 'craft' beer,but as long as they're not called "boutique" beers i can live with it... :beer:


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## brett mccluskey (27/1/11)

outbreak said:


> McLaren Vale Ale as number 1.... looks like marketing wins.


McLaren Vale just posted a reply to the above worry  <_< http://craftypint.com/news/post/the-hottest-100-revealed/


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## Hoser (27/1/11)

> McLaren Vale just posted a reply to the above worry http://craftypint.com/news/post/the-hottest-100-revealed/


Hi all,
Have to say I'm still new to home brewing and don't have the experience many of you do. That said, I love a good full robust flavoursome beer and I'm keen to try several of the beers on that list (have tried many but several I haven't).

Looking at McLaren Vale's response on the site, I think the CEO has a fair point. If it was your business, you'd try to get people a) to support and be aware of your beer and B) to be aware an supportive of the microbreweries and their craft beer. It's hard to compete against the multi-million $ budgets of duopoly in Oz. Thus whilst it may have swayed the voting, it did bring awareness both to his beer and craft beers in general. 

Perhaps a tainted result somewhat but all the same quite efficient marketing on their part. Besides all those people would only vote for McLaren Vale if they actually believed it was a good beer.

For my own take, I didn't vote as I wasn't aware of the competition but I'd have definitely chosen Mountain Goat Hightail at the top. I love it!

Congratulations on the Kooinda results too!


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## outbreak (27/1/11)

Hoser said:


> Hi all,
> Have to say I'm still new to home brewing and don't have the experience many of you do. That said, I love a good full robust flavoursome beer and I'm keen to try several of the beers on that list (have tried many but several I haven't).
> 
> Looking at McLaren Vale's response on the site, I think the CEO has a fair point. If it was your business, you'd try to get people a) to support and be aware of your beer and B) to be aware an supportive of the microbreweries and their craft beer. It's hard to compete against the multi-million $ budgets of duopoly in Oz. Thus whilst it may have swayed the voting, it did bring awareness both to his beer and craft beers in general.
> ...



If the Vale Ale was a good beer I wouldn't mind. Its just another bland beer marketed as a craft beer.


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## brett mccluskey (27/1/11)

outbreak said:


> If the Vale Ale was a good beer I wouldn't mind. Its just another bland beer marketed as a craft beer.


I wouldn't like to count the amount of craft beers that i,personally,consider bland. A craft brewer can easily make what many people consider a 'bland' beer.Have a look at the thread "whats the worst beer you've ever tried" for an idea of how there's so many opinions on whats a 'good 'or 'bad' beer .Someone actually thought La Fin De Monde was crap :lol:


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## Hoser (27/1/11)

> If the Vale Ale was a good beer I wouldn't mind. Its just another bland beer marketed as a craft beer.



Agree Vale beer is pretty bland. Much prefer Feral or Hightail brews. Definitely not my choice as a top beer. Fair point. But smart marketing nonetheless...


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## DU99 (27/1/11)

what determines the criteria for this award..whats difference between commerical brewery and a craft brewery..i would call coopers a craft brewery or matilda bay..


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## outbreak (27/1/11)

Hoser said:


> Agree Vale beer is pretty bland. Much prefer Feral or Hightail brews. Definitely not my choice as a top beer. Fair point. But smart marketing nonetheless...



10 points for their marketing, im not saying the guys are stupid quite the opposite they are most likely very smart . I am sure they actually have it in them to make an amazing beer too! However, they are just making safe beer for people with "educated palettes."


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## haysie (27/1/11)

What a great list of beers. A few that dont surprise me are Stone n Wood, Kooinda up near the top, White Rabbit White Ale middle of the ladder.
Fat Yak at #6 blows me away though


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## MitchDudarko (27/1/11)

So has anyone had the McLaren Vale Ale? Is it worthy of top spot? Is it a top 10 beer?


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## [email protected] (27/1/11)

Yeah i dont mind MVA, not overly exciting, but i think its a well made beer, but what would i know?

Like Haysie i was surprised Fat Yak at 6 ?? i reckon thats a pretty ordinary beer

Same old really, many different people with different tastes, i now much prefer the clones i have brewed with recieps
off AHB than the real thing now - JSAA, JSGA, LCBA


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## shadowofdarkness (28/1/11)

The definition of Craft beer is a tough one... The Yanks at least have a definition, but even they have disagreemenst about it... Although some of their rules regading Craft beer would have been useful in the top 100 list. Independence, all malt flagship beer, small would have reduced the field by a fair bit, BUT it wouldn't allow LCPA.. which even though is no longer independent, is still a good craft beer... I must say though, now that Fat Yak is brewed no longer at the Dandenong site, but in a larger operation, then surely that should diqualify it (as it is no longer brewed in Fosters craft section).... Hmmm, tough one. Ansd then it comes down to marketing as well, which Vale Ale have done well. Maybe we need a compliocated algorithm that uses people's choice, combined with scores on RateBeer & Beer Advocate?....


Mark^Bastard said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> To me it's probably sort of hard to define in words, but I can easily try a beer and say whether it's craft or not.
> 
> ...


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## geoff_tewierik (28/1/11)

MitchDudarko said:


> So has anyone had the McLaren Vale Ale? Is it worthy of top spot? Is it a top 10 beer?



Have had it in bottles and on tap from their pub in McLaren Vale. Much preferred the tap version, but that's the same with most beers.

Wouldn't rate it a top 10, let alone top spot.


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## MarkBastard (28/1/11)

shadowofdarkness said:


> now that Fat Yak is brewed no longer at the Dandenong site, but in a larger operation, then surely that should diqualify it (as it is no longer brewed in Fosters craft section)...



You know what, when Fat Yak was new I had it at the breakfast creek hotel in Brisbane and it was really really nice. It had a nice amount of late hops. It's a completely different beer now, so like JSGA it's a perfect example of a beer that I would have considered a craft beer at first but is now probably not one.

It's good that the observation in the change of taste in both cases matches up to the change in brewing technique (big batch compared to small batch).

With that in mind, maybe smaller batches is a necessity of craft beer. But are there examples in the world of mega breweries making craft beer? Is it the big batch size that changes the flavour or is it that big breweries cut corners and substitute ingredients and are too impatient with fermenting/conditioning times etc?

I would like any definition of 'craft beer' to exclude 'political' things like ownership structure of the brewery etc personally.


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## DanRayner (28/1/11)

Definition of the beer market as according to Fosters/CUB is interesting - I read a report on their market share in the beer industry last year and they saw it only in the following terms: _Full-Strength_ (VB, Tooheys New, Carlton Draught etc), _Mid-Strength_, _Light _and _Premium_

*Premium *was pretty much defined as everything else and was divided into "premium import" ie: Corona and "premium domestic" which was everything from Crown Lager and Stella Artois to Fat Yak, Little Creatures, Coopers and everything small than these. Premium was also a tiny section of the overall beer market like, around 8%? (also, it looks like that Wiki-link that I posted there also recognises these simple divisions of the beer market).

I think when you have a tiny section of the market struggling to compete with the "full-strength" majority you gotta support whatever gets the average drinker interested in that tiny market share.

I love that Coopers's still the oldest family-owned brewery and is not part of the CUB/Lion Nathan duopoly. It is akin to the Yuengling brewery in the US which is viewed with much fondness by most craft beer drinkers cos they are doing it the way they have always done it over the last 170 odd years and have not compromised on quality/process/style etc.

Once your average VB drinker moves to the easy-drinking, inoffensive Fat Yak they may be more inclined to explore the possibilities of other smaller brands which is always good for this section of the market.

They might even take up brewing at home...


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## big78sam (28/1/11)

This is the "hottest 100" or 100 most popular beers. If a beer has a wider distribution it's going to get more votes, that's just the way it works. It's a popularity contest not a panel of BJCP judges sitting down to judge each beer, or even the results of a blind tasting from a group of beer drinkers who get to taste every one of a shortlist. Good on McLaren Vale Ale I say, they have a successful product that obviously enough people like to get a good result.

Loot at this year's JJJs hottest 100 - won by Angus and Julia Stone. Was Big Jet Plane the best song of the year? Many have said it shouldnt have won but it was one of the most commercially successful songs so almost everyone had heard it.

I agree the criteria could have been tightened a bit though.


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## MarkBastard (28/1/11)

I reckon Coopers is over rated. They have the political structure to be better, and make some interesting beers, but instead they BUL Budweiser and make Coopers Clear. I expect more from them. Their selection of beers isn't really any better than the mega-breweries. At least the megas have these little pretend craft breweries like JS and Matilda Bay.

EDIT: Except I really really really like Coopers Extra Stout. To me that's a craft beer.


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## DanRayner (28/1/11)

Mark^Bastard said:


> I reckon Coopers is over rated. They have the political structure to be better, and make some interesting beers, but instead they BUL Budweiser and make Coopers Clear. I expect more from them. Their selection of beers isn't really any better than the mega-breweries. At least the megas have these little pretend craft breweries like JS and Matilda Bay.
> 
> EDIT: Except I really really really like Coopers Extra Stout. To me that's a craft beer.



I agree it was a mistake by them to make terrible beers like Clear and 1862 they should stick to the good ones: Pale, Sparkling, Extra Stout & Vintage - that is all


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## mwd (28/1/11)

We also need a top ten of commonly available beers. Most of those on the top 100 I have never even heard of or even seen anywhere. Not much use if they are not widely available to taste.

We get Fat Yak on tap at a few places here but it is very bland nothing kind of beer. :icon_offtopic:


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## WarmBeer (28/1/11)

Mark^Bastard said:


> With that in mind, maybe smaller batches is a necessity of craft beer. But are there examples in the world of mega breweries making craft beer? Is it the big batch size that changes the flavour or is it that big breweries cut corners and substitute ingredients and are too impatient with fermenting/conditioning times etc?


Somehow the second-tier US brewers manage to do it.

For example, Dogfish Head run 200 bbl brewery, if I remember correctly, and their 90 Min IPA is an awesome blast of hops, flavour and drinkability. Not exactly CUB mega-brewery sized, but they probably brew more volume than Coopers.

So big batches with big flavour can be done, we just don't _yet_ have the market in this country to make it financially viable.

</imho>


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## taj (28/1/11)

DU99 said:


> Nice to see True South get a mention



4 mentions  even one of our seasonals got a gig.


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## MarkBastard (28/1/11)

DanRayner said:


> I agree it was a mistake by them to make terrible beers like Clear and 1862 they should stick to the good ones: Pale, Sparkling, Extra Stout & Vintage - that is all



Or it's a bit of a shame they're not at the forefront. Stone & Wood Draught/Pacific Ale is the kind of beer I would expect a company in the position of Coopers to brew. At least one beer like that. They don't really seem interested in making a new beer that is actually good. They seem to have the same opinion of the industry as the mega breweries do. Dumb beer done, brew BUL shitty imports and call them premium etc. I understand they have to make money and I don't begrudge them for running the company to make money, but let's call a spade a spade and call them a megaswill company on a smaller scale, with independent ownership, and a better than megaswill base range.


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## dhal4 (28/1/11)

Interesting list, say when you compare it to the one at ratebeer.com for Australia:

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/country/australia/14/


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## DanRayner (28/1/11)

dhal4 said:


> Interesting list, say when you compare it to the one at ratebeer.com for Australia:
> 
> http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/country/australia/14/



Aaahhhhh, there's the Wig & Pen! Number 5 

Seriously though, this list is not [email protected], the ratebeer list is for absolute nutbags who are so passionate about good beer that they spend all their time logging on to beer websites and ranting and rav...

Oh. That's me and you guys...


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## beers (29/1/11)

MitchDudarko said:


> So has anyone had the McLaren Vale Ale? Is it worthy of top spot? Is it a top 10 beer?



I have had it on tap a few times (yet to try it from the bottle) & I found it to be quiet enjoyable for a session beer. Dry, with a nice galaxy like aroma. IMO it had a little more going for it than coopers pale (one of my fav session beers) & similar qualities to s&w pacific ale - which has me stumped as to why it is copping a panning. I guess if it doesn't smash you in the face like an IPA, & is contract brewed....

The general reaction to this years poll has me wondering how different the results would be if the votes were only taken over the bar at both Taphouse venues.


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## proudscum (29/1/11)

Mark^Bastard said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> To me it's probably sort of hard to define in words, but I can easily try a beer and say whether it's craft or not.
> 
> ...



The original Golden Ale was definitely a hand crafted beer at the Squire bar on swanston st and then it moved to the camperdown brewery in sydney.Which was when i stopped drinking it.The mainstream release party for the new GA they had was real disappointing for me and many of the other punters that where there.Circa 2003?


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## np1962 (29/1/11)

outbreak said:


> 10 points for their marketing, im not saying the guys are stupid quite the opposite they are most likely very smart . I am sure they actually have it in them to make an amazing beer too! However, they are just making safe beer for people with "educated palettes."


The new head brewer at McLaren Vale may just shake things up a little in the coming months, a well respected member of the Adelaide Brewing Community who is supervising the install of their new brewhouse before starting production on their own premises.
Should be very interesting times.
Nige


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## DanRayner (29/1/11)

proudscum said:


> The original Golden Ale was definitely a hand crafted beer at the Squire bar on swanston st and then it moved to the camperdown brewery in sydney.Which was when i stopped drinking it.The mainstream release party for the new GA they had was real disappointing for me and many of the other punters that where there.Circa 2003?




You say that like the James Squire Camperdown brewery is a massive faceless/nameless; it is a 5000L Brewhouse which makes it only twice the size of Zierholz in Canberra and a fraction of the size of Little Creatures. It's so small that when JS Amber and then Golden got popular they stopped brewing them there and started brewing those two (the two most popular JS brands) in the Tooheys brewery in Aselaide; while JS Pils, Porter, IPA, limited release and Mad Brewers stuff is all still brewed in the relatively small Camperdown brewery by a pretty small team of surprisingly dedicated brewers.

I guess it's all relatively where you draw the line for craft/sellout/popular...


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## Filby (29/1/11)

I'm surprised that Port Dock Brewery in Pt Adelaide doesnt get a mention in either lists. Given that their milk stouts has won internationaly brewing awards and their Ginja is probably the best GB on tap anywhere in aus (IMO)!


Fil


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## Hargie (29/1/11)

DanRayner said:


> Definition of the beer market as according to Fosters/CUB is interesting - I read a report on their market share in the beer industry last year and they saw it only in the following terms: _Full-Strength_ (VB, Tooheys New, Carlton Draught etc), _Mid-Strength_, _Light _and _Premium_
> 
> *Premium *was pretty much defined as everything else and was divided into "premium import" ie: Corona and "premium domestic" which was everything from Crown Lager and Stella Artois to Fat Yak, Little Creatures, Coopers and everything small than these. Premium was also a tiny section of the overall beer market like, around 8%? (also, it looks like that Wiki-link that I posted there also recognises these simple divisions of the beer market).




....I have it on very good authority that Craft Beer in Oz is about 1% of the market currently, of that 1% Squires, Matilda bay and Little Creatures make up 99%.....that leaves all the rest of us competing for 1% OF 1% of the Australian Beer Market.....things are changing but we have a long way to go folks....the US craft Beer market is about 5% by volume and about 7% by revenue of the US market....that 5% is bigger than the whole Australian market with the possible exculsion of CUB and Lion only...we are no where near the foothills of the mountain yet , but hey , bring it on, we've all got climbing boots.... :icon_cheers: 

Scott
S&W


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## DanRayner (29/1/11)

Hey Cougar, yup, that makes sense - cos the "Premium" beer that is 8% of the overall beer market includes Carlton Crown, Stella, Corona, Becks, Heineken etc and they would easily make up 87.5% of the this Premium beer sector. 

We do have a long way to go but I'm glad you're at the coalface scott


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## Hargie (29/1/11)

...'Tis a thisrty job too, Dan old son...Brewing at the JL today thinking ahead to yr visit, mate...


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## BitterBulldog (29/1/11)

Murray's Nirvana #79.... boolsheeet!


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## Hatchy (29/1/11)

BitterBulldog said:


> Murray's Nirvana #79.... boolsheeet!



I thought the same about ace of spades at 77. I was at the Wheaty last night & a girl told me that she doesn't like dark beers & asked what I'd recommend. I said spades. She grabbed one & loved it.

I was surprised that no bootleg beers made it, I assume that's because it's not distributed very widely.


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