# Saflager W34/70 V Saflager S-23



## mckenry (31/7/07)

Hi all,
Just about to culture up a new batch of yeast from the packets I save. I noticed I have two different Saflager yeasts. W34/70 and S-23. Whats the story? Are these much different? Anyone have an opinion (come on, you all do  ) on which is better and why? Maybe one is superceded for all I know? Are there any commercial examples? I have heard Bluetongue Pilsener uses W34/70. Possibly they are representative of different styles of lager? 
Regards,
mckenry


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## Fents (31/7/07)

Def not superceded as my LHBS sells both.

I've just done my first two pils and used 34/70 for both. Dont know why....would love to know the diff between the two also.


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## discoloop (31/7/07)

I can't speak for the flavour profile of each, because I've only tried W34/70. You may want to look over fermentis' spec sheet for each:
http://www.fermentis.com/FO/EN/pdf/SaflagerW-34-70.pdf
http://www.fermentis.com/FO/EN/pdf/SaflagerS-23.pdf

According to my HBS, W34 is the hardier of the two. It apparently handles a slightly wider temperature range and variability.

Edit: fixed hyperlinks...


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## Enerjex (31/7/07)

i'm sorry i can't comment on the flavour profiles of them as i've only used W34/70 once and havent tried S-23. just be careful if you use the w34/70 with your temps. i had it fermenting at 13 degrees for 2 and a half weeks and it tasted good out of the fermenter, but brought it up to 20 for a diacetyl rest for 2 days at the end and it completely ruined the taste of the beer. so keep your temps down in the 10-14 degree range for fermentation and if you do a diacetyl rest maybe only up to 16 or so.


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## Brewer_010 (31/7/07)

mckenry said:


> Hi all,
> Just about to culture up a new batch of yeast from the packets I save. I noticed I have two different Saflager yeasts. W34/70 and S-23. Whats the story? Are these much different? Anyone have an opinion (come on, you all do  ) on which is better and why? Maybe one is superceded for all I know? Are there any commercial examples? I have heard Bluetongue Pilsener uses W34/70. Possibly they are representative of different styles of lager?
> Regards,
> mckenry



I've used S-23 once and the flavour was fruity-ish and fuller (?), whereas the W34/70 (which I've used in quite a number of brews) leaves a beer maltier and cleaner finishing than S23. 34/70 does not finish as dry as I would wish (but this may be a problem inherent in pre-hopped kits - all FWKs & extracts I've brewed finish well). All have been brewed to the manufacturer's recommendation (i.e. 9-14C)

I have switched to S-189 for the time being to see if I can tell any difference.

I've also used WLP802 a couple of times with good results, both in FWK's. 

I don't bother with kit lagers anymore to be honest, the result is always disappointing  and I can get better results with extract, grain and my own hops.

Cheers


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## wildschwein (31/7/07)

I used 34/70 in my last brew and it took about 19-20 days to finish (I use finings and don't rack) @ a pretty constant 10-12C range. Sure was the longest primary ferment I have ever seen. The flavour seems quite dry but this brew needs more time in the bottle yet. I used S-23 a while back and found it took less time @ the same temps, maybe around 12-13 days. There was a disinct sulpher smell @ bottling time which completley dissappeared after about 3-4 weeks, taste is also dry but very slightly fruity.


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## bconnery (1/8/07)

Brewer_010 said:


> I've used S-23 once and the flavour was fruity-ish and fuller (?), whereas the W34/70 (which I've used in quite a number of brews) leaves a beer maltier and cleaner finishing than S23. 34/70 does not finish as dry as I would wish (but this may be a problem inherent in pre-hopped kits - all FWKs & extracts I've brewed finish well). All have been brewed to the manufacturer's recommendation (i.e. 9-14C)



This is a pretty good summation of the info I've seen about these two yeasts. 

Both originate from Germany and will produce decent enough European style lagers, with varying flavour profiles. 

As a choice for what you've got now then I suppose you want to think about what sort of lager you want, then decide but if I was going to do anything German I'd consider 34/70 as my first choice, out of those two. 

S189 is a brilliant dried lager yeast. I've only used it once so far but I know many people on here swear by it.


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## mikem108 (1/8/07)

I've found S23 to be fruity and less crisp in comparison to the 34/70 (Weihenstephan) which I prefer and is suposedly the most widely used strain and although it produces some sulphur, this dissipates with time..
The main thing is patience grasshopper


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## chimera (1/8/07)

assuming the temps are right (winter) W34/70 is smooth & clean like a good german lager, S-23 is more citrusy.

Interesting point anybody wants to comment - my two fermeters have been busy at it all July, winter being brewing season. W34/70 seems to have no problems with fermenting out at 10-12 degrees, never has. S-23 OTOH stalled at about 1.020 after almost 3 weeks and i've been forced to bring up the temp and re-pitch so as not to risk filling my garage with hand grenades. Not the first time it's done it either, seems strange that S-23 struggles at lager temps.


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## afromaiko (1/8/07)

Chimera said:


> S-23 OTOH stalled at about 1.020 after almost 3 weeks and i've been forced to bring up the temp and re-pitch so as not to risk filling my garage with hand grenades. Not the first time it's done it either, seems strange that S-23 struggles at lager temps.



I also had this problem with S-23, even though I pitched two packets it was fermented in a brew fridge maintained in the ideal range. Luckily I bottled in PET but I was still a bit worried. Trying my luck with the W34/70 now and am interested to see how it turns out.


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## matti (25/8/09)

There is a first time and last time for every thing.

My wort (AG) dark lager which was pitchet with 2 sachet of this particular strain halted at 1.020.
I just had run out of time waiting to pitch and my impatience paid its toll.
I raised the temperature to 16 degrees yesterday and shook the buggery trying to stir it up and no go.
Luckely I am kegging but the problem is the beer is still too sweet.

My 4 year old said the hydro sample tasted like Juice.
It was sweet and slightly fruity with estery notes as one would expect with this strain, but way too sweet.

Never again.. 
I'd here by swear I will not use S-23 ever again.
I might have to just take it as a learning experience. dont use crap yeasts FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF :angry:


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## glaab (25/8/09)

I used s23 in my last batch and had no probs. Pitched 2 pkts [ into 45l ] dry at 20C and it was blubbing away 8 hrs later. Reduced down to 10C over 24 hrs. Rested at 16 and FG ended up at 1012. Piece o cake :icon_cheers:


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## daemon (25/8/09)

bconnery said:


> S189 is a brilliant dried lager yeast. I've only used it once so far but I know many people on here swear by it.


I'm not much of a lager brewer but recently made one with S-189 and couldn't be happier. Lovely neutral taste, very little odour and doesn't take too long to lager. I've used S-23 in the past and it produced a lot of sulphur (smelt like a sewerage treatment plant!), which is very off-putting. Taste wasn't as good as the S-189 either and certainly required longer lagering to drop the odour.

Still think I'll stick to ales though, I hate waiting


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## Red Baron (15/5/15)

Hate to drag up a 6 year dead thread, but I was drinking my QLD lager tonight, and got a distinctly fruity taste (banana to my taste buds). I fermented with s-23, when previously I've used s-189. I pitched on a yeast cake from a toohey's new clone, and while the flavours from s-23 seem to work in it, they don't work for this. Looks like i'll be going back to s-189 for my QLD. 

Cheers,
RB


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## Autopilot (16/5/15)

I haven't been able to find 11g packets of s189 for over a year. I think you can only buy it in bulk.


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## tj2204 (16/5/15)

Autopilot said:


> I haven't been able to find 11g packets of s189 for over a year. I think you can only buy it in bulk.


Craftbrewer sell it


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## Bribie G (16/5/15)

See "Swiss Lager" on the Craftbrewer site.

It's originally from Hurlimann in Switzerland.
34/70 allegedly originated in Bavaria at Weihenstephan and s-23 is more like a Danish lager yeast (Think Carlsberg, Tuborg and VB :unsure: )

I've only used S-23 once and fermented it at ale temperatures, it seemed to lend a fairly pleasant "lemony" flavour.


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## Red Baron (16/5/15)

Not tried Tuborg, but I dislike the taste of Carlsberg and VB- might have to share this batch round more than usual......

Cheers,
RB


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