# Williamswarn Beer Awards



## wobbly (13/6/14)

Wiliamswarn ran a competition in NZ for WW brewers to produce what they (the brewer) considered to be a NZ Pale Ale and the results are in as detailed in the attachment.

There were 59 entries three of which were "All Grain" (entries 29, 55, and 57) they also included 5 commercial brews in the blind tasting to compare the WW entries against. There were 8 judges and they used the BJCP protocol to score the beers

Cheers

Wobbly

PS. For those considering purchasing a WW they have a promotion from today until the end of June where if you purchase a WW you get 19 of their kits included in the price. Details are available from Winequipe Melbourne (No affiliation just passing on the info) 

View attachment 2014 Beer Awards Results for Brewers.pdf


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## SnakeDoctor (13/6/14)

As mentioned in the other thread, running your own competition is hardly a way to build credibility, if the entrants enter third party competitions it'd be a lot more of an advertisement.

Are you able to source the "all grain" vs. extract comments? It's not mentioned in your PDF..


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## Ducatiboy stu (13/6/14)

Must agree....any one can run there own closed comp.

But how do they go against K&K,, WW, AG, BIAB, No Cill, etc

I have seen K&K brewers make a better beer than a full AG..

TBH....the WW will sort itself out in the generall population of brewers. Just like other alternative methods have. If people can see results against other methods they will buy. If it doesnt cut the mustard then only a small few will buy it. The same thing happened with BIAB & No-Chill. Let the brewers and results decide, not a marketing push


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## Yob (13/6/14)

After all the shit in the previous threads? 

Really? 

Points for persistence wobbly, you must have a fair lump on your forehead by now and I'm personally amazed at your continued sales repping.


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## GrumpyPaul (13/6/14)

Williamswarn prototype?


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## roger mellie (13/6/14)

SnakeDoctor said:


> As mentioned in the other thread, running your own competition is hardly a way to build credibility, if the entrants enter third party competitions it'd be a lot more of an advertisement.
> 
> Are you able to source the "all grain" vs. extract comments? It's not mentioned in your PDF..


Well they kind of did - at least once

http://www.williamswarn.com/Gold-Medal-2012#.U5qRYBZpteg

The entire point of the competition - was simply to have NZPA accepted as a BJCP style. As NZ has 14 commercial hop varieties and numerous examples of Pale Ales with NZ hops only - WW decided to promote the style - for inclusion as a category. Sure - WW will self flagellate about the first 10 entries beating the (arguably) most commercially successful example of an NZPA - they organised the comp - I guess that makes them entitled to - they are trying to make money after all - no crime in that.

As Wobbly mentioned there were 3 AG entries - none of which finished in the top 10 - maybe if I had read the specifications (IBU's < 30) one of the AG entries might have done better.


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## Ducatiboy stu (13/6/14)

Just because a product Sponsors an event does not make it De jure


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## SnakeDoctor (13/6/14)

I'm guessing theres no points lost for extract twang on their WW score cards...


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## Bribie G (13/6/14)

When I win Powerball I'll definitely buy a couple of Williamswarns , a Roomba iRobot for every room and a Dualit toaster (with a spare one in case it fails on a Sunday morning).


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## mje1980 (13/6/14)

I'd just buy a microbrewery at least it could potentially pay itself off


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## pk.sax (13/6/14)

If I won powerball, I'd arrange to live serviced for the rest of my life at a location of my choosing, when I choose and not give a flying toad's ass how beer is made as long as it is served up by a roster of playmates.

Does we run a poetry competition yet?


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## Ducatiboy stu (13/6/14)

I would employ vixens to sparge..

Then employe same young vixens to empty kettle into kettle..

Then..


Those same Vixens would be be required to bottle.

If those said vixens bottled out of a WW or fermenter...I would not give a shit


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## Bribie G (13/6/14)

I prefer minxes to vixens.


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## Yob (13/6/14)

Personal preference for nymphs


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## Tahoose (13/6/14)

Williamswarn or Wobblyswarn?

:huh:


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## Gavo (13/6/14)

Bribie G said:


> When I win Powerball I'll definitely buy a couple of Williamswarns , a Roomba iRobot for every room and a Dualit toaster (with a spare one in case it fails on a Sunday morning).


I bet the Dualit toaster makes good toast.


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## Ducatiboy stu (13/6/14)

Sorry....but my vixen is


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## Bribie G (13/6/14)

Nymphs of Diana

Hard by a Crystal Fountain - 2.24

And who wouldn't be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlZUpOpjVcU


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## Camo6 (13/6/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Sorry....but my vixen is


10 mins after Stu's pots and I'm:

Soft by a Pearlescent Puddle - 2:24 (PB)


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## manticle (13/6/14)

Steering back on topic anytime soon will be appreciated.


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## Bribie G (13/6/14)

manticle said:


> Steering back on topic anytime soon will be appreciated.


WW competition got a good rap in NZ


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## Liam_snorkel (13/6/14)

Damn, I was about to post about my electronic toaster. 

Anyway, other than sourcing the ingredients locally, what differentiates an NZPA from an APA? Same style of beer surely, highly hopped pale ale with almost enough malt to balance?


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## Yob (13/6/14)

"This brewery isn't necessarily made for those who have the time or interest to make brewing a hobby"

lol

Ed: from Bribies link, nice one


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## Liam_snorkel (13/6/14)

And EPIC pale ale, one of the tastiest NZPAs I can think of is (I'm pretty sure) 100% US cascade.


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## Ducatiboy stu (13/6/14)

Ummm...yeah...

I sort of liked that bit about how he wasnt expecting it to 

" Ian, whose background is in the brewing industry, admits that he had very little experience with craft beer when he started his quixotic mission to create a home brewery. '


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## mje1980 (13/6/14)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Damn, I was about to post about my electronic toaster.
> Anyway, other than sourcing the ingredients locally, what differentiates an NZPA from an APA? Same style of beer surely, highly hopped pale ale with almost enough malt to balance?


C'mon, there's a black India PALE ale now. Anything goes in beer styles.





The above beer style can be comfortably brewed in a Williams thingy


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## SnakeDoctor (13/6/14)

Liam_snorkel said:


> And EPIC pale ale, one of the tastiest NZPAs I can think of is (I'm pretty sure) 100% US cascade.



That's why it scored lowly in a NZ Pale Ale category competition, it doesn't fit the category. As noted further down the PDF, cascade hops are not mentioned

If I was going to rig a competition, i'd hide it a lot better. Seems like this bloke doesn't really respect the intelligence of his customers/potential customers.


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## booargy (13/6/14)

FIGJAM?


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## indica86 (13/6/14)

F. Me this WW is an odd thing.
They even have their own awards.


what the actual **** is going on?
No wonder so many kiwis leave the land of the long white cloud.


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## Adr_0 (13/6/14)

I was going to post something but I would have been banned for the amount of trolling I would have been doing.

Page 9 "Ian Williams Taste Score" is my favourite for the record though. And I would use vixens to rehydrate my yeast...

*trolling over*


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## SnakeDoctor (13/6/14)

Having looked into it a bit further wobbly, this thread posting is either incredibly gullible or a shill.


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## Yob (13/6/14)

Ian...


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## Parks (13/6/14)

Wow, the beers were judged in 3 minutes each - that's really fast. I know they used the checklist style judging sheets but still, you have to be a confident and very experience _judge_ to do it that quick.


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## Ducatiboy stu (13/6/14)

SnakeDoctor said:


> Seems like this bloke doesn't really respect the intelligence of his customers/potential customers.


There was a "deep & meaningfull" thread started by a an "Ardent supporter " of the [email protected]

We wont go there...


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## Mr. No-Tip (14/6/14)

Parks said:


> Wow, the beers were judged in 3 minutes each - that's really fast. I know they used the checklist style judging sheets but still, you have to be a confident and very experience _judge_ to do it that quick.


Are you suggesting tabloid beer writers may not have true judging experience?


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## manticle (14/6/14)

Parks said:


> Wow, the beers were judged in 3 minutes each - that's really fast. I know they used the checklist style judging sheets but still, you have to be a confident and very experience _judge_ to do it that quick.


I missed that. Barely enough time for appearance and aroma.


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## mje1980 (14/6/14)

They also had to judge after eating habanero paste


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## Weizguy (16/6/14)

manticle said:


> I missed that. Barely enough time for appearance and aroma.


I assume it was a checklist only, with no comments. If so, I can see 3 minutes would not be a stretch.
Y or N, tick the box. Next multiple/dual choice question.

Not quite judging, but probably closer to a commercial brew comp than a homebrew comp. So many entries and little time to judge in a commercial comp.

I am a beer judge, with a few years of experience (but not in the WW comp, mind you), and can see that this is more of a publicity stunt for NZPA inclusion in the BJCP style guidelines than an actual serious comp. My apologies to all who feel cheated now for entering a beer.


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## Liam_snorkel (17/6/14)

Williamswarn win the award for shortsighted advertising. The more I think about this the more sense it makes - it's a piece of gear designed for insecure men who need something big and shiny to prove themselves.


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## lukiferj (17/6/14)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Williamswarn win the award for shortsighted advertising. The more I think about this the more sense it makes - it's a piece of gear designed for insecure men who need something big and shiny to prove themselves.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ha ha. Just posted this in another ww thread. What a bunch of wankers.


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## Liam_snorkel (17/6/14)

Jinx!


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## Markbeer (17/6/14)

i am surprised by a few things.

firstly,

someone who is rich enough decided the ww is a good idea and produces and markets it.

secondly, people are buying this.

thirdly, a competition is organised for ww owners only.

if we had a car race with just ladas and the lada wins this does not mean the lada is the fastest car around.


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## Parks (17/6/14)

Markbeer said:


> thirdly, a competition is organised for ww owners only.
> 
> if we had a car race with just ladas and the lada wins this does not mean the lada is the fastest car around.


Did someone say baseball world series?


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## manticle (17/6/14)

It will appeal to people who wear Lynx.


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## Ducatiboy stu (17/6/14)

And beige woolen cardigans & red volleys


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## Adr_0 (17/6/14)

manticle said:


> It will appeal to people who wear Lynx.


Hey! Not even in the same ballpark... :angry: 

(see what I did there?)


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## spryzie (17/6/14)

hey! I wear cardigans!


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## Ducatiboy stu (17/6/14)

Is it beige. Do you own red volleys. Do you ride a retro pushbike.......


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## GuyQLD (17/6/14)

Wait, when did Lynx become trendy? I've been wearing "Africa" for 20 years.


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## pk.sax (18/6/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Is it beige. Do you own red volleys. Do you ride a retro pushbike.......


Don't think you got money left for a ww if you got a retro pushbike.


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## roger mellie (18/6/14)

Markbeer said:


> i am surprised by a few things.
> 
> firstly,
> 
> ...


Buying it - using it and loving it - as a fermenter. Making better beer than I ever have.

Whats your point again?

A competition organised with exclusive entry criteria - who would have though eh! Your car analogy is pretty spot on.


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## bradsbrew (18/6/14)

Markbeer said:


> if we had a car race with just ladas and the lada wins this does not mean the lada is the fastest car around.


No, but it shows who has performed best with the identical vehicle. What's the problem with a manufacturer having a competition to see who is getting the best results from their product?

I personally would not purchase one of these because I believe it is an over priced product that would not suit my needs and I could build something similar that would do more for a smaller cost. I also do not like some of the brewing info the manufacturer has given because I believe it is wrong However I do not have the right to tell someone how to spend their money, especially when I see that there are members here that are happy with the results they are getting.

I would like to see some beers made on these systems entered into some local comps though.


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## manticle (18/6/14)

GuyQLD said:


> Wait, when did Lynx become trendy? I've been wearing "Africa" for 20 years.


Nothing to do with trendy - just their ridiculous run of ads.
Plus it smells like insect repellent.


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## djar007 (18/6/14)

Please stay on topic manticle. Hehe. I have been reading up on here and the ww site trying to find side by side comparison with a plastic fermented batch. Has anyone done this yet? Please point me to it if it is out there. Regards dave.


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## Yob (18/6/14)

Yup, stack em up in a comp, it's the only way to sort this out, 

we should run an AHB comp, Bling V's Ghetto System war, Give a style and go at it,

Im tipping the Ghetto crowd will be more willing to put it on the line..


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## sp0rk (18/6/14)

I'll gladly put one of my beers up against a WW beer


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## roger mellie (18/6/14)

Yob said:


> Yup, stack em up in a comp, it's the only way to sort this out,
> 
> we should run an AHB comp, Bling V's Ghetto System war, Give a style and go at it,
> 
> Im tipping the Ghetto crowd will be more willing to put it on the line..


So Yob - at last count there was (I think) - 4 people on this site with a WW

Maybe not such a representative sample - but I would happily enter.

If a WW beer won out over all others would it make you rush out and buy one?? Didn't think so.


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## Parks (18/6/14)

roger mellie said:


> If a WW beer won out over all others would it make you rush out and buy one?? Didn't think so.


That really isn't the point. The point is it would actually give some credibility to the the product based on judging which can't be controlled by WW. Some of the claims WW say their system can do which normal home brewers (us) can't do are pure bull.


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## sp0rk (18/6/14)

Parks said:


> That really isn't the point. The point is it would actually give some credibility to the the product based on judging which can't be controlled by WW. Some of the claims WW say their system can do which normal home brewers (us) can't do are pure bull.


This
EXACTLY this


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## Yob (18/6/14)

There are some VERY credible beer judges among us on this site, 

At the end of the day its about the beer not the equipment.


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## Florian (18/6/14)

Yob said:


> There are some VERY credible beer judges among us on this site,
> At the end of the day its about the beer not the equipment.


exactly, so why make such a fuss about the williamswarn if you don't own one?


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## roger mellie (18/6/14)

Yob said:


> There are some VERY credible beer judges among us on this site,
> 
> At the end of the day its about the beer not the equipment.


Bingo

So how about then - when a WW post comes up - it is kept 'all about the beer'

Instead of pointless bleating about cost, bling, claims made marketing a product etc etc...

Agree on one thing - its all about the beer.


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## spryzie (18/6/14)

How much do these things cost?


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## sp0rk (18/6/14)

roger mellie said:


> Bingo
> 
> So how about then - when a WW post comes up - it is kept 'all about the beer'
> 
> ...


The claims are the problem, they basically boil down to "If you're not making beer with this, your beer is shit", this is knocking our beer
Of course we're going to react...


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## roger mellie (18/6/14)

Parks said:


> That really isn't the point. The point is it would actually give some credibility to the the product based on judging which can't be controlled by WW. Some of the claims WW say their system can do which normal home brewers (us) can't do are pure bull.


I class myself as a 'normal home brewer' as well - I have a conical fermenter that has built in temperature control, carbonates the beer whilst it ferments, has a decent method of clarifying and dispensing - and I absolutely love it. I am making more beer than I used to - and on the whole I think my harshest critic (SWMBO) agrees - the quality is as good if not better than what I made in plastic or my 30L SS conicals.

We all know that some of the claims made are bunkum - thats marketing. The claim of 'credibility' however stands on its own - the bit about winning the asian beer awards wasn't made up (unlike some of the other stuff that WW spruiks)


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## Ducatiboy stu (18/6/14)

roger mellie said:


> We all know that some of the claims made are bunkum - thats marketing. The claim of 'credibility' however stands on its own - the bit about winning the asian beer awards wasn't made up (unlike some of the other stuff that WW spruiks)


This bit doesnt make sense. Is it credible or not.


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## roger mellie (18/6/14)

Credibility in relation to the comment made previously

"The point is it would actually give some credibility to the the product based on judging which can't be controlled by WW. Some of the claims WW say their system can do which normal home brewers (us) can't do are pure bull"

All about the beer Stu.


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## lukiferj (18/6/14)

roger mellie said:


> Bingo
> 
> So how about then - when a WW post comes up - it is kept 'all about the beer'
> 
> ...


Sorry mate. I don't think you get to decide when it's "about the beer". We're not making these claims about ww. They're making it themselves. We're not the ones taking it away from the beer, they are. Yes it's just marketing crap, but it's more of the same from them. If I'm going to spend a bunch of money on a fancy fermenter (which I'm not), then I'm entitled to see what kind of people are taking my money.


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## Ducatiboy stu (18/6/14)

roger mellie said:


> Credibility in relation to the comment made previously
> 
> "The point is it would actually give some credibility to the the product based on judging which can't be controlled by WW. Some of the claims WW say their system can do which normal home brewers (us) can't do are pure bull"
> 
> All about the beer Stu.


If they have made other stuff up......then there are not very credible....


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## SnakeDoctor (18/6/14)

I would happily buy one for the money they are asking, but the marketing and the public statements by WW suggests to me that it's a piece of junk that is only suitable for people who lack the capacity for critical thought.


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## roger mellie (18/6/14)

lukiferj said:


> Sorry mate. I don't think you get to decide when it's "about the beer". We're not making these claims about ww. They're making it themselves. We're not the ones taking it away from the beer, they are. Yes it's just marketing crap, but it's more of the same from them. If I'm going to spend a bunch of money on a fancy fermenter (which I'm not), then I'm entitled to see what kind of people are taking my money.


Respectfully I think thats bollocks

WW started a beer competition for owners of WW beer machines. Wobbly posts a link ('cos its about beer right) - The proletariat bleat loudly about exclusivity and start a pissing contest (again). What is wrong with that? I tried to explain that despite the marketing campaign and the fact that some of their gen is bollocks - the fact is that they entered a beer in an international beer awards (more than once) and won - beating commercial entries.

I imagine that somewhere in Australia there is (for example)a Ducati Owners Club - where on occasion someone decides to have a gathering of all the pretty red bikes that their owners have (no doubt) paid many many thousands of dollars on - all polished and gleaming for all to see. There will be much self admiration and possibly even self flagellation at said club gathering. Someone might even win an award for the best example of a Ducati all polished and gleaming like. The competition is not open to (cocks) that ride Harleys (for another example) because they is cocks - right?

What sort of car do you drive ? Surely this was a similar 'big money' purchase? I really hope its from Scandanavia - I'm told they are really nice people. (Jeez I hope your car isn't from Germany)

WTF has happened to this forum?? It used to be about good stuff like suffocating kittens in airlocks, slagging off idiots who import chinese hops grown in sewerage tanks and laughing at Tonys spelling (rice gulls)? IGU.


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## Ducatiboy stu (18/6/14)

Nice dig Roger.

But Ducati really are the best bikes.


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## roger mellie (18/6/14)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> Nice dig Roger.
> 
> But Ducati really are the best bikes.


Cheers Stu - I did have my eyes on a S1000RR a while ago - guess I will have to start looking at Husqvarnas now.

Damn you Lukifer


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## lukiferj (18/6/14)

Sorry mate. Not having a dig at you or trying to start a pissing contest. I probably should have posted it in the other ww thread as it is about the product/company, not about the ww beer "awards".


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## Liam_snorkel (18/6/14)

I like this Roger bloke. 
Sorry, I'm probably guilty for derailing this thread, it was the first one to come up when I searched to post the offending advertisement.


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## Mattwa (18/6/14)

I think the WW's reputation on this forum went south after this: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/76912-williamswarn-personal-brewery/?p=1117336

Hell hath no fury like a homebrewer scorned.


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## Mattwa (18/6/14)

Roger I think your Ducati owners club analogy falls down as the WW competition made a big deal out of including commercial beers and beating them. 

It's like if the Ducati boys brought in a model from 5 other manufacturers and beat them in a race so they could say "See! Ducatis are the best!"


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## roger mellie (18/6/14)

Mattwa said:


> Roger I think your Ducati owners club analogy falls down as the WW competition made a big deal out of including commercial beers and beating them.
> 
> It's like if the Ducati boys brought in a model from 5 other manufacturers and beat them in a race so they could say "See! Ducatis are the best!"


Oh yes - there are holes in that analogy all right - but the point of poking fun at an exclusive competition for owners of a certain type of brewery is valid - putting the commercial entries was to keep the judges honest - and they weren't told there were commercial entries prior to judging.

Of course it was a fantasy - I mean you couldn't actually organise a Ducati club gathering and expect more than about half of the owners to turn up - they would be stripping down their bikes looking for the phantom electrical glitch that prevents their overpriced pieces of italian beauty from working (some of the time)

Should have brought a BMW Stu.


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## Mattwa (18/6/14)

roger mellie said:


> Of course it was a fantasy - I mean you couldn't actually organise a Ducati club gathering and expect more than about half of the owners to turn up - they would be stripping down their bikes looking for the phantom electrical glitch that prevents their overpriced pieces of italian beauty from working (some of the time)
> 
> Should have brought a BMW Stu.


I'm sure if you had it at a cafe and put on free lattes you'd have a few takers!

(I ride a Honda BTW)


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## Ducatiboy stu (18/6/14)

Yeah...welll...


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## Camo6 (18/6/14)

Liam_snorkel said:


> I like this Roger bloke.
> Sorry, I'm probably guilty for derailing this thread, it was the first one to come up when I searched to post the offending advertisement.





"He said Williamswarn..."


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