# Carbonating 450ml bottles



## flave_7 (8/11/15)

Ladies and Gents. Anyone ever carbonated beer in a 450ml grolsch bottle?

Firstly, any calculations (or someone can just tell me the answer) of how much sugar I'd need per bottle?

Secondly, anyone had trouble with the seal on them?

Cheers in advance

(Pic for effect)


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## Danscraftbeer (8/11/15)

Bulk prime but its risky if not done very carefully. Or calculate the bulk priming amount of sugar and then devide it by how many bottles you will get from the batch. You'll need the little jewellers digital scales to weigh the correct amount for one bottle then I would fit that amount in whatever messuring spoon it fits. Its gotta be close to something like 1 1/2 tsp.


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## Rod (8/11/15)

I use grolsch bottles

I bulk prime a 25 litre batch with 180 grams of dextrose in a litre of water and add brew to the water in a second fermenter and give it a gentle stir to get even distribution

make sure you centre the seal evenly on the top of the bottles , especially with silicon seals

I find the rubber replacement seals do a better seal

the dextrose is about 3.4 grams per bottle if you have to add dry to the bottle before filling 

if using sugar it will give you more gas , only add 3g per bottle


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## yum beer (8/11/15)

1 carb drop per bottle....perfect. or at least bloody close.


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## Danscraftbeer (8/11/15)

just being geeky I think its more like ~1.35 carb drops = 5 grams. Or 1tsp Dextrose? How easy is that? 
I only use the 500ml range (in between bottles I call them). For bottling kegged beers. I've got boxes of stubbies and long necks suitable for carb drops.

All depends what carbonation volume you want. 1 carb drop for 450ml Pale Ale eg, may seem flat. 2 drops is an over carbonated frothy!. I stick to the carbonation level of around 2.3 volumes.


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## crowmanz (8/11/15)

I use 1 carb drop in my 500ml bottles, never had a problem with the level of carbonation i got from 1 drop.


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## Digga (8/11/15)

I use 1 tea spoon for 330 to 375 1.5 for 450 to 500 and 2 for 740 to 750 and 5 for the 2l growler. Seems to work fine for everything apart from the growler witch I haven't tried yet but got 3 on the go...
On that has anyone tried carbing in the KK Growlers?? Not trying to hijack the thread either.


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## DU99 (8/11/15)

Get one of these spoons


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## Danscraftbeer (8/11/15)

Digga said:


> I use 1 tea spoon for 330 to 375 1.5 for 450 to 500 and 2 for 740 to 750 and 5 for the 2l growler. Seems to work fine for everything apart from the growler witch I haven't tried yet but got 3 on the go...
> On that has anyone tried carbing in the KK Growlers?? Not trying to hijack the thread either.


No but you just gave me the reason for the experiment. The odd overshot batch volume thing. I never thought of it and those growlers sat in the cupboard for long time while I toiled with small bottles. I'd question the pressure capability? I have a glass one too.


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## Digga (8/11/15)

They are rated for 40psi I think...??...
As I said I have 3 that have been in there for around 3-4 weeks. I don't have the need to crack them yet as I have kegs on the go ATM and need to finish a couple to make room for my first shot at pils & lagers... Currently have 2 kegs in the ferm fridge! And 1 naturally carbing next to the bottles!
As I don't have a capper and limited swing tops I was in a spot and NEEDED the big dawgs or I would have been wasting beer!
Have to give one a go this Friday at work.


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## Yob (8/11/15)

Google "bulk priming calculator" giving a g/l only works if we know what style and what volume you are chasing...


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## Matplat (10/11/15)

Also google 'pseudo bulk priming' by goatherder....


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## Danscraftbeer (10/11/15)

I was at KK yesterday they said the growlers are rated at 15psi. That's probably enough still.


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## Jack of all biers (10/11/15)

As has been pointed out already, it does depend on the beer style (and personal taste) you are bottling and the type of sugar you are priming with. If you want a "standard" or "medium" carbonation level (typical of Aussie lagers/pale ales etc) then 4-6gm/l dextrose is about right. I would say you can either be technical and divide the litre to your 450ml (I thought the Grolsch bottles were 484ml or something odd like that though) or you can just halve the litre amount and add 2-3gm to each of your bottles (the 50ml less is only 10% more carbonation, which I doubt you'll notice). The only problem is consistent measuring of the amount going into each bottle, which is why bulk priming is recommended if you have the correct tools for the job. See this recent thread for more if you are interested. http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/88108-bulk-priming-question/


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## flave_7 (10/11/15)

Sorry about the late reply fellas. Long story short is that the father in law says to me last Friday "could you brew me a beer for Christmas? Oh and I want it in these bottles coz they look cool."
Not knowing heaps about brewing obviously he thinks it just happens and that beer can be drunk as soon as it's finished fermenting. Which I guess it can if you like that sorta thing. So I suggested a chocolate redwood ale that a mate had done before (pale ale malt hopped, Amber malt unhopped, chocolate grain and Amarillo hops if anyone is interested).


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## butisitart (10/11/15)

bulk prime - the only way to carbonate -
1. spend $30 on a fermenter to use for bulk priming, and some hose.
put dextrose into priming fermenter. full fermenter should be high enough above priming fermenter to simply turn that tap on, flow through hose down to priming fermenter.
turn tap on. when you've nearly run empty, start watching and ensure trub doesn't escape down to priming fermenter.
priming fermenter will now have consistent amount of priming sugar throughout. job done. and you have clear beer all the way.
bottle from priming fermenter. (take out the trub filter thing from back of tap on priming fermenter - gets in the way of the last bottling pours and there is no trub)

personal dextrose adds for 23L are -
ales, ipa's etc - 130-140gm
stouts, porters - 120 gms,
but if you are going to age stouts, porters etc 100-110 gm

you can fill 330, 375, 450, 500, 750 without calcs cos the priming fermenter will have consistent priming sugar through the brew.


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## dannymars (10/11/15)

Also depends on the temperature at bottling, which if you are cold crashing will be around 2degrees, therefore a bunch of co2 will already be in the beer... My last batch was bottled at 8 degrees, therefore only 73grams of sugar for 25 liters.


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## Mardoo (11/11/15)

:icon_offtopic: As long as you're staying at 2.5 volumes or under the KK growlers should be perfectly safe. I myself wouldn't want to push them to 2.8 volumes, which is at the 15 psi limit.


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## Yob (11/11/15)

dannymars said:


> Also depends on the temperature at bottling, which if you are cold crashing will be around 2degrees, therefore a bunch of co2 will already be in the beer... My last batch was bottled at 8 degrees, therefore only 73grams of sugar for 25 liters.


Not exactly correct, it matters what the highest temperature the beer saw. Beer loses c02 as it warms so that temperature determines the residual c02 in solution


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## dannymars (11/11/15)

Hmmmm, hope I haven't under primed :-/

Probably have, **** it... Might have to open the bottles and drop a teaspoon extra of sugar in.... So much for bulk priming.

Also found it hard to tell if the sugar was properly mixed.... I did it in a cube and just rocked it back and forth for a bit... I wasn't convinced, but you don't want to oxidise your beer... :-/


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## mje1980 (11/11/15)

Don't add more sugar. Asking for trouble IMHO. Just wait 2 weeks and try one. 

I never bulk primed for that reason, how do you know it's all mixed in? I don't bottle much beer so I'm happy to weigh out for each bottle


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## Rocker1986 (11/11/15)

I used to just give it a gentle stir with a sanitised long spoon after transferring the beer into the bottling bucket. Was careful not to stir too vigorously, and always ended up with consistent carbonation.

But yes I wouldn't be adding more sugar at this point; even though 73g in 25 litres will give you **** all carbonation, it'd be a bit risky I'd think.


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## Rod (11/11/15)

dannymars said:


> Hmmmm, hope I haven't under primed :-/
> 
> Probably have, **** it... Might have to open the bottles and drop a teaspoon extra of sugar in.... So much for bulk priming.
> 
> Also found it hard to tell if the sugar was properly mixed.... I did it in a cube and just rocked it back and forth for a bit... I wasn't convinced, but you don't want to oxidise your beer... :-/


bulk prime is the best way to 

dissolve sugar in boiling water and cool , I use a litre

and get two more bottles with a small drop in alcohol per serve 

add to bulk prime fermenter 

run brew with end of tube running out to the side of the fermenter and give it a gentle stir


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## Matplat (11/11/15)

If i were going 5o bulk prime, i would dissolve the required amount of sugar in a little water first before adding to the bottling bucket....


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## Matplat (11/11/15)

Rod beat me typing!


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## Yob (11/11/15)

dannymars said:


> Hmmmm, hope I haven't under primed :-/
> 
> Probably have, **** it... Might have to open the bottles and drop a teaspoon extra of sugar in.... So much for bulk priming.
> 
> Also found it hard to tell if the sugar was properly mixed.... I did it in a cube and just rocked it back and forth for a bit... I wasn't convinced, but you don't want to oxidise your beer... :-/


I used to dissolve mine in 400ml boiled water and just tip it into the secondary when boiling and rack on top of it, the cold beer quickly cools the small amount of liquid.


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## Yob (11/11/15)

HERE is the calculator shown above..


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## Yob (11/11/15)

mje1980 said:


> Don't add more sugar. Asking for trouble IMHO. Just wait 2 weeks and try one.
> I never bulk primed for that reason, how do you know it's all mixed in? I don't bottle much beer so I'm happy to weigh out for each bottle


If the hose is coiled in the bottom of the secondary, it sets up a gentle stir as you are racking it. It mixes. 

In saying that, I preferred tap to tap and never had any issues with variance.


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## dannymars (11/11/15)

I dropped about 150mls of boiled water with sugar dissolved into the bottling cube. coz it's a cube it's a bit hard to stir, so I just rocked it back a forwards a bit...


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