# MillMaster v MaltZilla Mills



## Cloud Surfer (10/3/21)

I need a mill. I was going to get the MaltZilla, then I found the MillMaster which looks very good. The larger, fluted rollers in the MillMaster look better to my eye than the rollers used in the MaltZilla.

Anyone care to comment on these mills or any others I may have missed.


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## Outback (10/3/21)

when i upgraded my mill i was heading to a millmaster, but when i found out how much they have gone up in price stayed looking around. I ended up with a mattmill. Awesome bit of kit, full of German know how and comes with a fair amount of gravity so you know there is some serious metal in there.


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## duncbrewer (10/3/21)

I looked at the MattMill and it's solid, was prohibitive shipping to NZ, did think of getting one on a return to UK. However Covid scuppered those plans and then Brexit has made export to UK tricky. The Maltzilla I have looks to have a lot of copy of these Mattmills.


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## Cloud Surfer (10/3/21)

I need it now, so no chance getting one when I’m overseas or having to wait for delivery. 

The MillMaster and MaltZilla are almost the same price once you buy the power source for the MaltZilla. You need a drill for the MillMaster but I’ve got lots floating around here. All the negatives I’ve seen about the MaltZilla were from the free spinning roller that gets jammed. I wonder if you’ve seen that issue dunc. The rollers look a lot better on the MillMaster being fluted and much larger.


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## philrob (10/3/21)

I've been using the original MillMaster since it was first released about 13 or 14 years ago. I still hand mill, and don't bother with a drill any more, as I can mill 5 kg in no more than 10 minutes. Unless you can seriously slow the speed of your drill, you will get a better crush hand milling, as it leaves the husks mostly intact but crushing the grains, rather than shattering the husks and grains. Works for me, and I normally achieve over 90% extraction efficiency. For the brief period I tried milling with a drill my efficiency dropped. One great feature of the MillMaster is that the rollers are geared, so never any slippage.


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## Cloud Surfer (10/3/21)

Sounds good Phil. I think I’ve made my choice.


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## TheAussieBrewer (10/3/21)

MillMaster hands down, is the best mill on the market, sure this MaltZilla fills a gap in the market but it is not built to last like the MillMaster.

The question is, Do you want to buy 1 mill or 2?

My MillMaster has probably milled a couple Ton of malt and is showing no signs of slowing down


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## Cloud Surfer (10/3/21)

I think 1 will suffice.


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## TheAussieBrewer (10/3/21)

Cloud Surfer said:


> I think 1 will suffice.


Then I’d suggest buying the MillMaster so you don’t have to buy it second


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## Cloud Surfer (10/3/21)

Yes my philosophy is to buy once, so I always look for quality that will last.


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## duncbrewer (10/3/21)

Cloud Surfer

I'd say that most of my views were expressed in this thread a few days ago.






BrewZilla 65L


I see so the grains " stay floating " with the braumeister, wheras they are sinking and being washed down with the Brewzilla types. Thank you must look it up. The pump is pretty powerful on the BM the grains are all forced up against the top plates, every 15 minutes the pump stops (pump break)...




aussiehomebrewer.com





We discussed mills and my experience with the maltzilla on the end of this thread page 3 with lots of links etc.


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## Cloud Surfer (10/3/21)

Sorry dunc, I forgot it was you who gave me all that great info in your post. Based on that I was literally about to hit the buy button on the MaltZilla when I thought I should do a quick google check. That’s when I found the MillMaster.

I really appreciate the effort you went to and feel like I am well informed because of that.


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## hairydog (11/3/21)

I bought a millmaster years ago pre fluted rollers (knurled) and found the grain husk wasnt grabbing to the mill roller
and millmaster sent a fluted roller free of charge and it hasnt missed a beat,i coupled this with a gearbox and speed
controller and a mate bent up a hopper and she hasnt missed a beat.


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## Cloud Surfer (11/3/21)

hairydog said:


> I bought a millmaster years ago pre fluted rollers (knurled) and found the grain husk wasnt grabbing to the mill roller
> and millmaster sent a fluted roller free of charge and it hasnt missed a beat,i coupled this with a gearbox and speed
> controller and a mate bent up a hopper and she hasnt missed a beat.


I noticed that the German MattMill has knurled rollers, and the original MillMaster had knurled rollers before changing to fluted rollers. Just like your comment, everything I found suggested the fluted rollers were a good upgrade for the MillMaster.

I bought the hopper to go with it so I’m looking forward to using it next week.


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## Keg King (11/3/21)

Take a look at our Malt King 3 roller geared if you get a chance.


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## KegLand-com-au (11/3/21)

philrob said:


> I've been using the original MillMaster since it was first released about 13 or 14 years ago. I still hand mill, and don't bother with a drill any more, as I can mill 5 kg in no more than 10 minutes. Unless you can seriously slow the speed of your drill, you will get a better crush hand milling, as it leaves the husks mostly intact but crushing the grains, rather than shattering the husks and grains. Works for me, and I normally achieve over 90% extraction efficiency. For the brief period I tried milling with a drill my efficiency dropped. One great feature of the MillMaster is that the rollers are geared, so never any slippage.



I would be interested to see your grist. Certainly the MillMaster is well built and draws grain really well. The only issue that we found is when grain falls in between the flutes you get the grain not going through as small a gap and other pieces of grain get squashed quite a lot as they get squashes by the peaks in the roller. The MillMaster mills quite fast though so if you are milling more than 50kg of grain you might find the time saving to be 10-20 minutes faster than our MaltZilla.

The MaltZilla has much finer roller surface and certainly if you do not clean the mill the surface of the diamond coating can get bogged up eventually so just requires a small clean with wire brush, cloth, compressed air or something. The diamonds practically last forever though and will not go blunt like knurling. Often the knurling on other mills like our three roller grain mill work really great when new but when the knurling goes blunt it doesn't draw as well. The diamond coating gives the most consistent crush as all the grains fall through a very consistent gap size.

So having used both mill types I would say:

MaltZilla Pros
- More consistent crush and very high quality crush
- Includes integrated low rpm gearbox and motor
- Very long lasting diamond coating

MaltZilla Cons
- Mills slower so not as good for large batches when doing more than 20kg of grain
- Requires the odd clean every now and then


MillMaster Pros
- Mills faster and great for large batches of grain 50kg and above
- Fluted rolls never require cleaning and will still draw due to aggressive fluted.
- Heavy duty construction

MillMaster Cons
- No motor included
- Not as consistent crush in our opinion


I would not really recommend using a drill in my opinion. It's hard to control the speed consistently and if you vary the mill speed from batch to batch it's just one more variable you have to contend with on your brew day. So whatever option you go for I highly recommend installing a motor that will deliver a slow consistent RPM. Yes a cordless drill will work but it's hard to get the speed consistent and at a low RPM. Would be keen to hear about what other motors you guys have found for the job? Any good ideas out there?


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## Cloud Surfer (11/3/21)

KegLand-com-au said:


> I would be interested to see your grist. Certainly the MillMaster is well built and draws grain really well. The only issue that we found is when grain falls in between the flutes you get the grain not going through as small a gap and other pieces of grain get squashed quite a lot as they get squashes by the peaks in the roller. The MillMaster mills quite fast though so if you are milling more than 50kg of grain you might find the time saving to be 10-20 minutes faster than our MaltZilla.
> 
> The MaltZilla has much finer roller surface and certainly if you do not clean the mill the surface of the diamond coating can get bogged up eventually so just requires a small clean with wire brush, cloth, compressed air or something. The diamonds practically last forever though and will not go blunt like knurling. Often the knurling on other mills like our three roller grain mill work really great when new but when the knurling goes blunt it doesn't draw as well. The diamond coating gives the most consistent crush as all the grains fall through a very consistent gap size.
> 
> ...


All good information. I'm not sure how much the MillMaster design has changed over the years, but the current model has geared, assymetric rollers so the peaks and valleys in each roller match up to provide a uniform gap. MillMaster also state that crush quality is independent of mill speed and you can crush anywhere between 100rpm and 500rpm, so a hand drill is a good choice. Maybe not so using knurled rollers.

My understanding was that fluted rollers produce a higher quality crush because they don't rip the husk like the knurled rollers do.


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## MHB (11/3/21)

Be a little careful going too fast, you can get enough heat generated from compression to harm enzymes.

At a guestimate I would say aim for around 300 RPM.
The speed does make a difference to your crush in other ways to. If you are going too fast the endosperm sort of explodes and you get more flour, same gap going a bit slower and you will get more kibble and better husk fragments that act as filter material.
Milling is the first chance most brewers get to effect the brewing outcome its worth "wasting" a couple of kg of malt getting the speed and the gap optimised, will pay dividends for the rest of your brewing life.
Mark


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## Cloud Surfer (11/3/21)

MHB said:


> Be a little careful going too fast, you can get enough heat generated from compression to harm enzymes.
> 
> At a guestimate I would say aim for around 300 RPM.
> The speed does make a difference to your crush in other ways to. If you are going too fast the endosperm sort of explodes and you get more flour, same gap going a bit slower and you will get more kibble and better husk fragments that act as filter material.
> ...


I’ve organised Steve to help me optimise the gap.


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## MHB (11/3/21)

I'll arrange for my sift set to be available; I have seen optimising a mill change efficiency by up to 20%.

Which if you think about it means every 5th grist is free, even 10% means 1 in 10 comes cost free.
Getting it right will make for more extract, better conversion, faster recirculation and even less extraction of husk tannins.
Worth working on.
Mark


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## Grmblz (11/3/21)

I have a 3 roller knurled none geared mill and use the Ozito drill linked to below.
It has a variable speed dial on the trigger and a button to lock the trigger in the "on" position.
I use the slowest possible setting and there is a small issue where you fire the drill up and it's no load speed is quite high, then when you tip in the grain it hunkers down and grinds along at its set slow speed, the issue is with that first bit of grain that hits the rollers before it slows down, so you get maybe a cupful of grain that is obliterated, this hasn't given me any problems that I am aware of, just an observation.
Speed is definitely an issue with knurled rollers, but if mashmaster is to be believed then perhaps fluted rollers are the solution
If mashmaster knock $100 off the price I'll buy one, but for me $400 for just a 2 roller mill is too rich.

This from the manufacturer MillMaster Grain Mill MashMaster Specialised Brewing Equipment

"The fluted rollers deliver a more consistent grist distribution regardless the roller speed of between 120 to 530 RPM"

This recomendation from Mill Master - Mash Master - Mini Grain Mill - FREE SHIPPING AU WIDE

"Three stage planetary gearbox, about 110Nm of torque (the D.C. 200-250w motor kits are only about 20Nm off memory). Under load with full trigger pull at its lowest setting it will operate the mill at about 220RPM and highest setting 530RPM according to the tachometer on my test bench. 1050W Spade Handle Drill"


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## philrob (11/3/21)

KegLand-com-au said:


> I would be interested to see your grist.
> 
> 
> I'm brewing next week. Will take a couple of pics to show what I end up with. Remember that mine is the original larger MillMaster, not the later model smaller one where some of the rollers were replaced with the fluted rollers.


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## hairydog (12/3/21)

I have used the motion Dynamics geared motor in conjunction with a speed controller (seperate circuit board) connected to the motor
and a ebay 12mm coupling for the shafts to to join,a bit of an outlay in bucks but hasnt missed a beat.


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## Gollywog (12/3/21)

KegLand-com-au said:


> I would be interested to see your grist. Certainly the MillMaster is well built and draws grain really well. The only issue that we found is when grain falls in between the flutes you get the grain not going through as small a gap and other pieces of grain get squashed quite a lot as they get squashes by the peaks in the roller. The MillMaster mills quite fast though so if you are milling more than 50kg of grain you might find the time saving to be 10-20 minutes faster than our MaltZilla.
> 
> The MaltZilla has much finer roller surface and certainly if you do not clean the mill the surface of the diamond coating can get bogged up eventually so just requires a small clean with wire brush, cloth, compressed air or something. The diamonds practically last forever though and will not go blunt like knurling. Often the knurling on other mills like our three roller grain mill work really great when new but when the knurling goes blunt it doesn't draw as well. The diamond coating gives the most consistent crush as all the grains fall through a very consistent gap size.
> 
> ...





CONS:

Will get stuck 10-15 times every time you try to mill 5kg of grain. Non moving roller is a HUGE issue with getting stuck.
Do not believe the crap that is an occasional issue.


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## duncbrewer (12/3/21)

One roller free wheels and this is the one that gets adjusted for gap and can get stuck , the other doesn't move unless motor is running. 
I don't get 10-15 sticking problem with my Maltzilla. Gap set at 0.75mm and using an 18V battery it mills over 5kg fine. Did get more stops when I used a weak 18V nicad battery ( now recycled ). Never that many though. I do precondition the grain with 2.5% by weight of sprayed water for at least an hour prior to milling. 
Also careful check of polarity on the battery connection to ensure the rollers are rotating down away from the hopper. It does work in reverse but not well at all. Saw this error on someones youtube video and the output was pitifully slow as well. 
Useful to reverse the polarity briefly if it does get stuck and that has sorted me out most times.


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## Cloud Surfer (12/3/21)

duncbrewer said:


> One roller free wheels and this is the one that gets adjusted for gap and can get stuck , the other doesn't move unless motor is running.
> I don't get 10-15 sticking problem with my Maltzilla. Gap set at 0.75mm and using an 18V battery it mills over 5kg fine. Did get more stops when I used a weak 18V nicad battery ( now recycled ). Never that many though. I do precondition the grain with 2.5% by weight of sprayed water for at least an hour prior to milling.
> Also careful check of polarity on the battery connection to ensure the rollers are rotating down away from the hopper. It does work in reverse but not well at all. Saw this error on someones youtube video and the output was pitifully slow as well.
> Useful to reverse the polarity briefly if it does get stuck and that has sorted me out most times.


I’ve seen you mention a couple of times that you precondition your grain. I wonder how many people do that? I can see it’s value, but it’s not something I’ll introduce until I see how the mill works with dry grain.


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## Grok (12/3/21)

I've been using malt conditioning for a while now, it's the way to go I reckon. I only use a standard 2 roller mill with an old 18v B&D Firestorm drill on low ratio setting, it has plenty of grunt for the job.
I think the key is to damp the grain just prior to milling, that way the outer husk gets tough and leathery while the inside is still dry and will crumble a bit as it cracks up. The mostly whole intact husk acts as rice hulls would by providing bulk and space in the mash. If you leave the damp grain for to long before milling, then the whole grain will be toughen up and you will be mashing/squashing the grain like rolled oats. I haven't had any circulation issues since I started to do it.
I'm thinking about converting an old clothes dryer to a grain tumbler for this purpose, but haven't got around to it yet, getting by with a hand sprayer and slowly tipping the grain into a tub whilst spraying and mixing just before milling, then straight into the mash tun and fill from bottom up.


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## Cloud Surfer (12/3/21)

Sounds good Grok. I’ll tuck it away for possible future use.


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## MHB (12/3/21)

Malt conditioning is interesting, it has its advantages but you do need to be cracking and mashing in pretty short order or it can cause problems too.

Ideally you want the husks to take up moisture but not to change the moisture content of the endosperm.
The fastest way to do this is with hot water, or steam. These days with so many small cheap hand held steam cleaners on the market it’s something worth looking at.
I would be inclined to try adding about 1% to the mass of malt, should add enough to get the ~20% moisture increase recommended into the husks. A bit of experimenting and a decent set of scales should make it easy to see how much moisture is being taken up. Once you know your procedure it just becomes adding a known amount of water to the steamer per kg of malt to be conditioned.
Just stirring the malt with a steam wand would work. Might be a bit easier to fit a wand to a steam cleaner than, to modify up a tumble dryer.
Mark


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## Grok (12/3/21)

Just feel the grain with your hands if spraying with water, you'll soon get the hang of it.


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## philrob (17/3/21)

Here it is, milled at 1.1mm by hand in the original MillMaster.


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## duncbrewer (17/3/21)

I believe breweries put steam from some area of the brewery thru the grain on its way to the mill. Difficult for us and they are using a good steam source, not sure how powerful those steam cleaners are. 
Old clothes dryers used to be called washing lines in my neck of the woods so not sure how that would help to condition the grain, but if it was a rainy day should work fine.


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## Cloud Surfer (22/3/21)

I got my MillMaster set up, and have started experimenting with different mill gaps and speeds. I've finished with it set at 1.1mm with the feeler gauge and about 120rpm on the drill. Though I think I might slow the drill down even more.

Set at 1.1mm it has split almost all the husks in half, with not many fully intact husks, but at least it's made virtually no flour. So I gave conditioning a try, and the milled grain looks totally different. Looks like I've got about 90% of the husks still intact, but when I give them a rub they break up into a few pieces. After milling, the dry grain looks quite compact, while the conditioned grain looks "light and fluffy' if I can use that description.

So I think I've got the mill set correctly for use with the conditioned malt. If I was going to run the dry malt through, it looks to me like I would have to open the gap up a little more. I know Phil you use 1.1mm, but maybe you get away with that gap because you hand mill. Anyway, I'll know in a few days after I blow 15kg of malt on a Barley Wine.


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## sp0rk (22/3/21)

KegLand-com-au said:


> I would be interested to see your grist. Certainly the MillMaster is well built and draws grain really well. The only issue that we found is when grain falls in between the flutes you get the grain not going through as small a gap and other pieces of grain get squashed quite a lot as they get squashes by the peaks in the roller. The MillMaster mills quite fast though so if you are milling more than 50kg of grain you might find the time saving to be 10-20 minutes faster than our MaltZilla.
> 
> The MaltZilla has much finer roller surface and certainly if you do not clean the mill the surface of the diamond coating can get bogged up eventually so just requires a small clean with wire brush, cloth, compressed air or something. The diamonds practically last forever though and will not go blunt like knurling. Often the knurling on other mills like our three roller grain mill work really great when new but when the knurling goes blunt it doesn't draw as well. The diamond coating gives the most consistent crush as all the grains fall through a very consistent gap size.
> 
> ...


Not going to include the cracked plastic housing as a maltzilla con?


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## KegLand-com-au (1/4/21)

sp0rk said:


> Not going to include the cracked plastic housing as a maltzilla con?



Given that it's only one cracked housing in about 1000 units sold it's probably not really a significant concern. With that said even if you did get a mill and somehow cracked the strong moulding then it would be replace by our customer service team fairly quick.


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## TheAussieBrewer (1/4/21)

Just thought I’d share what I have done with my MillMaster mill. 

3/4hp motor with a 1-1/2” pully driving a 10” pulls providing about 220rpm on the mill.


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## duncbrewer (1/4/21)

Mind your fingers in that flywheel, I'd like to see a guard on that.


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## TheAussieBrewer (1/4/21)

duncbrewer said:


> Mind your fingers in that flywheel, I'd like to see a guard on that.



Getting around to it, don't have kids or anyone else using it but me and I know not to stick my fingers back there.


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## duncbrewer (1/4/21)

That's what they have all said when they turn up with mangled fingers and hands on my operating table to have them tidied up, reattached or realigned. Some even safety at work advisers!


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## Grmblz (3/4/21)

Nice neat setup, but I wonder about the side load on the drive shaft bearing/sleeve, which is not an issue with a drill.
How tight does the belt have to be to prevent slippage?
Alternators have a small ball bearing and seem to last forever at quite high tensions but a lot of mills have bushes, something to keep an eye on maybe.


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## TheAussieBrewer (3/4/21)

Grmblz said:


> Nice neat setup, but I wonder about the side load on the drive shaft bearing/sleeve, which is not an issue with a drill.
> How tight does the belt have to be to prevent slippage?
> Alternators have a small ball bearing and seem to last forever at quite high tensions but a lot of mills have bushes, something to keep an eye on maybe.


There isn’t a huge amount of load on the belt, but this motor has a bearing front and rear and is for driving pullies so there isn’t an issue with side load. The bearings may wear out eventually but not quickly enough for me to be concerned about it. Will last longer than a drill motor, outlived 2 drills I used before upgrading to the motor.


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