# Chilling MashPot...



## slcmorro (2/8/13)

Hey guys,

I've got about 30 mins left of my boil and I've come to realise... the only vessel I have large enough to hold my pot and actually cover more than the bottom quarter of it is my bath. It won't fit in the kitchen or laundry sinks (just realised this when I had a quick look at the size of the pot) and I remember reading something about someone cooling the wort down to pitching level by sitting in on the garage floor? 

I was wondering, with the lid on and everything as sanitised as possible, is there any significant risk of infection by doing this?
It's not a massive concern of mine, getting it down to a lower temperature in any kind of hurry, as I'm adding more water to the wort to get it up to volume anyway, and that will be quite cold in comparison.

Could I let it stovetop cool to say 40c, and then sit it in the fermenter overnight and pitch in the morning once it's at temp? (It's a Pils, I'm fermenting at 12c)

Thoughts?


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## RelaxedBrewer (2/8/13)

You could just no chill it in the pot on the garage floor like you suggested. You will have to adjust your hopping if you do it this way though. 

If you have late hops in your recipe and have added them already go the bath option. Should be fine sanitation wise if you leave the lid on.

What volume are you cooling?

RB


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## breakbeer (2/8/13)

How much water are you adding?


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## Cocko (2/8/13)

There are reports of people chilling in their kettle to no ill affect.

IMO - I would sanitise your fermenter and get the post boil wort into it, avoiding splashing, then lid on and let it chill in the fermenter. You could even add your top up water reducing the temp even quicker..

The reason being, your fermenter will disperse the heat quicker as your pot will retain a lot of heat, then just top up and pitch.

I assume, due to you saying stove top - you are only chilling a small amount or not full volume boil.

It will be fine mate.

18c.


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## slcmorro (2/8/13)

Post boil estimate is 10.4L, adding water to get to 19L

I have 20gm of hops @10 and 10gm of hops at 0 to add.


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## Cocko (2/8/13)

Throw the 10g @ 0 into the ferm, if you go with my suggestions...

God speed.


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## Helles (2/8/13)

Add ICE


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## Yob (2/8/13)

Laundry tub? Just chuck it in the bath and get it down quick mate..

That said, I've kettle chilled a number of times and not had a drama at all.. If you don't want to chill it I wouldn't stress too much but at 10l it won't take much effort or water to chill


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## Silver (2/8/13)

My 1st few AGs were BIAB in 20 ltr pot on stove. Once boil was completed, placed cling film over top(loosely) and lid back on, placed under house onto wet towel on concrete floor to cool overnight. Dump into FV next day and pitch yeast. No problems at all, in fact they were really nice beers.


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## timmi9191 (2/8/13)

In the last edition of byo magazine there was article about hoping and conversion of alpha acids to create bittering. From memory it occurs above 75c. So if you add cool water to your 10.4l ASAP after flame out it will chill below the critical temp and conversion to bittering will cease. No need to adjust hopping..


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## dougsbrew (2/8/13)

You must have a small laundry sink. how big is your pot?
I wouldn't chuck ice in your wort to get temp down, too much of an infection risk IMO.


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## slcmorro (2/8/13)

19L pot from Big W. 

I just threw it in the bath. The missus will have a go at me for using household stuff for brewing, but meh. Funny, she doesn't seem to complain when the beer is flowing... 

Almost had a disaster though. Too much water = too much bouyancy for the pot. Nearly capsized! Let a bit more later out and threw all the ice I had on hand into it, along with 4 x 2L frozen bottles of water.


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## slcmorro (2/8/13)

P.S - I do have a very small laundry sink. 45L to be precise!


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## WarmBeer (2/8/13)

Don't add ice.

You're in the 'rat. Just put that baby on the back step for 30 mins, and she'll be down to about 4 degrees 

And I've got to disagree with Hom Cocko, technically, it will cool down quicker in the pot than in the fermenter, as plastic is a better insulator than metal. Put your pot on a concrete floor, it'll suck the heat right out of it.


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## Cocko (2/8/13)

WarmBeer said:


> Don't add ice.
> 
> 
> And I've got to disagree with Hom Cocko, technically, it will cool down quicker in the pot than in the fermenter, as plastic is a better insulator than metal. Put your pot on a concrete floor, it'll suck the heat right out of it.



So, you could chill it in a hot metal pot or a larger surface area fermenter?

Umm... EAD.


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## WarmBeer (2/8/13)

WarmBeer said:


> ... it'll suck the heat right out of it.


Just as quickly as when Cocko turns up at the local swingers party.


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## Helles (2/8/13)

go buy a bag of ice from servo add to fermentor as your top up water


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## Cocko (2/8/13)

helles said:


> go buy a bag of ice from servo add to fermentor as your top up water


Worst. Advice. Ever.


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## jaypes (2/8/13)

Cocko said:


> There are reports of people chilling in their kettle to no ill affect.
> 
> IMO - I would sanitise your fermenter and get the post boil wort into it, avoiding splashing, then lid on and let it chill in the fermenter. You could even add your top up water reducing the temp even quicker..
> 
> 18c.


I was under the assumption hot side aeration has no ill effects


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## slcmorro (2/8/13)

All sorted. Thanks for the advice. Pitched at 15c. It cooled down awesomely when I topped it up with water. 

I topped it up to 21L at the very last minute, rather than 19L. I wanna bottle one or two, and keep them for a while. I measured my OG to 1042, rather than the 1043 calculated below, but I can't see that being a huge drama.

For my first real stovetop partial, I'm happy. I hit my literage targets post boil, and everything went seemingly smooth in the end. Efficiency set at 70%



*German Pilsner* (German Pilsner (Pils))

Original Gravity (OG): 1.043 (°P): 10.7
Final Gravity (FG): 1.008 (°P): 2.1
Alcohol (ABV): 4.52 %
Colour (SRM): 3.8 (EBC): 7.4
Bitterness (IBU): 32.1 (Average)

54.84% Pilsner
29.03% Dry Malt Extract - Light
16.13% Dextrose

1 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
0.5 g/L Cascade (7.8% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil)
0.5 g/L Cascade (7.8% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Aroma)
0.5 g/L Nelson Sauvin (11.5% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Aroma)


Single step Infusion at 68°C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 12°C with Saflager W-34/70


Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*


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## Proffs (2/8/13)

For the record, I used to always top up my partials with ice. From the servo. I'm guessing you did too to have got it down that quick. I never had any adverse effects.


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## slcmorro (2/8/13)

Proffs said:


> For the record, I used to always top up my partials with ice. From the servo. I'm guessing you did too to have got it down that quick. I never had any adverse effects.


Nah, I didn't use ice in the wort itself. Just threw some in the tub, let it sit for however long it took to finish grocery shopping with the missus, and then topped up from the tap. Took a temp reading before I diluted, and it was at 26c. It's about 2c outside where I am now, so I imagine the water coming out was around that also.


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## Silver (2/8/13)

With those ambient temps you could have just sat it on the grass.


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## Cocko (2/8/13)

Silver said:


> With those ambient temps you could have just sat it on the grass.


Post whore.


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## Silver (2/8/13)

Cocko said:


> Post whore.


Post whore.


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## bum (2/8/13)

I'm sleepy post-whore.


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## brad81 (2/8/13)

Whore dors


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## slcmorro (2/8/13)

Silver said:


> With those ambient temps you could have just sat it on the grass.


There's a four legged brown demon outside that would have had other ideas.


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## Silver (2/8/13)




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## pk.sax (2/8/13)

I don't get it, if you could dump a bag of ice into concentrated hot wort and have instant pitchable wort in 5-10 minutes, and do pitch healthy yeast, how is that any different to the amount of exposure people give cooled wort by thrashing it, splashing it from a height or even plain old kit brewing. Paranoid much?


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## bum (2/8/13)

Doesn't servo ice often say that it isn't fit for human consumption on the bag?

Don't even talk to me about keeping ice at pasteurisation temps or I will punch you right in the rhetoric.


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## Proffs (2/8/13)

I'm not sure where you're getting your ice, Bum but mine is definitely intended for "drinking". Woolies sells it for $2.50 a bag. 

When I did partials I'd usually end up with 15 litres of boiling wort. I'd tip it into the fermenter, throw 2 4kg bags of ice in and bob's your uncle. 23 litres of wort @ around 18*C.


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## pk.sax (2/8/13)

Well, all the ice I ever bought or sold has been fit for consumption. I think they even sterilise the water or some other such claim but I won't put much into that. I didn't get the pasteurisation of ice thing. Apologies, I'm just tired I think. Most of my bartender friends don't bother making their own ice, they just keep a bag in the freezer. I've not died yet but there might be brain damage from the beer I've been drinking


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## WarmBeer (2/8/13)

Hodor?

Hodor!

Hodor...

It just works.


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## carniebrew (2/8/13)

With partials and a bit of forward planning you could freeze 3 or 4 litres of boiled water in a 4l sanitised icecream container, then chuck it into the kettle post boil.


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## slcmorro (2/8/13)

carniebrew said:


> With partials and a bit of forward planning you could freeze 3 or 4 litres of boiled water in a 4l sanitised icecream container, then chuck it into the kettle post boil.


Great idea. I think I might get on this.


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## woodwormm (2/8/13)

helles said:


> go buy a bag of ice from servo add to fermentor as your top up water





Cocko said:


> Worst. Advice. Ever.


bag of bought ice was my standard cooling method for well over 3 years, i'm guessing around 30 brews.. never one infection, ever.


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## Camo6 (2/8/13)

I think 90% of my K&K brews were filled with the garden hose at full blast to cool and aerate. Never had an infection. Never had a great beer either come to think of it.
I did freeze the odd container of ice and just dumped it in FV to reduce temps with partials and never had a problem. Hmmm (see above).
But now that I mash and boil for 180 odd minutes plus the extra prep and cleanup times, damned if I'm gonna chance a good beer by adding any water that hasn't been recently boiled.

Cover it with gladwrap, spray it with starsan, leave it alone for 24 hours. This is the best way to avoid infection Cocko tells me. I imagine it applies to wort as well.


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## bum (2/8/13)

Camo6 said:


> I think 90% of my K&K brews were filled with the garden hose at full blast to cool and aerate. Never had an infection. Never had a great beer either come to think of it.


The anti-garden hose thing isn't really about infection rather than just off-flavours.



Camo6 said:


> damned if I'm gonna chance a good beer by adding any water that hasn't been recently boiled.


Exactly. With any method of brewing.

[EDIT: That's not exactly what I meant. I thought he was talking about half arse-ing it, rather than adding untreated tap water. Not sure why. This Pliny clone is pretty good, but.]



Camo6 said:


> Cover it with gladwrap, spray it with starsan, leave it alone for 24 hours. This is the best way to avoid infection Cocko tells me. I imagine it applies to wort as well.


Enjoyed. (TNWSS)


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## Cocko (2/8/13)

printed forms section said:


> bag of bought ice was my standard cooling method for well over 3 years, i'm guessing around 30 brews.. never one infection, ever.



So, you put the ice directly in the brew? or you used it to chill the vessel?


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## slcmorro (2/8/13)

Woo! My thread has turned into a 'to hydrate or not clone'. Where's Stu when you need him?


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## Camo6 (2/8/13)

Ssshhhh, you really wanna wake him?


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## Rowy (2/8/13)

Cocko said:


> So, you put the ice directly in the brew? or you used it to chill the vessel?


Neither......shoves it up his arse and coverts it to steam out his mouth......what do you reckon?


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## Cocko (3/8/13)

Rowy said:


> Neither......shoves it up his arse and coverts it to steam out his mouth......what do you reckon?


Wow, was offering some help.

Are you OK Rowy?

You seem a little aggressive tonight?


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## carniebrew (3/8/13)

If you don't want to add ice directly to your pot, you could freeze some 1.25 litre coke bottles (or some such) full of water, spray them liberally with/dunk them in starsan and put 'em directly into your wort to chill. Ghetto immersion chiller...and re-usable too.

Might be better if you did this once the wort was cooled a bit though, not sure how the plastic would go in really hot wort. Although I think the melting point of PET is something like 250C...


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## Droopy Brew (13/8/13)

Ok so what is the risk of using store bought ice? If I use untreated tap water for my top up I don't see that ice would be any worse and being frozen I would think it was less hospitable for infectious bugs than room temp tap water.

Anyone got any clear evidence or sound reasoning why this is bad practice?


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## Northkit (13/8/13)

Anyone tried the ice and salt trick? Was going to give that a blast on the next brew.

http://www.wikihow.com/Chill-a-Drink-Quickly


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## Droopy Brew (13/8/13)

An ice/salt slurry will be the quickest way to strip heat for sure- can get a hot stubbie down to drinking temp in about 10 minutes.

However I can see the folly in adding direct to the wort as a top up :unsure:


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## hsb (13/8/13)

carniebrew said:


> <snip> Although I think the melting point of PET is something like 250C...


Been there, done that! PET goes soggy/shrinks if you try to put recently boiled Wort into it for a starter. Result is 1L PET bottle ends up looking like a 500ml raisin.
So maybe not so good for chilling near boiling wort, unless you want gently exploding ice PETS.

Get a bloody cube? h34r:
http://www.peopleinplastic.com.au/


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (13/8/13)

slcmorro said:


> 19L pot from Big W.
> 
> I just threw it in the bath. The missus will have a go at me for using household stuff for brewing, but meh. Funny, she doesn't seem to complain when the beer is flowing...


They always whinge about the brewing. Unless they're drinking.


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## lukasfab (13/8/13)

ATM I always brew over gravity beer and top up with boiled water
do you guys top up with cold water straight from the tap?

sorry bit OT


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (13/8/13)

I do. I know some don't but I've not had an issue when I've done it. Having said that, I'll always rehydrate to make sure the yeast is kicking strong when I do. Probably paranoia.


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## lukasfab (14/8/13)

well that would make it easier

will try topping up from the tap next time


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