# Big Stock Pot V's 50l Keg



## Northside Novice (17/5/09)

I want to get set up for AG and want advise on a kettle? What would you recomend, a large stock pot (stainless or alluminium) or an old 50l keg?


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## sinkas (17/5/09)

use the search function FFS


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## brando (17/5/09)

sinkas said:


> use the search function FFS



Nice welcoming response to a first-time poster Sinkas! Well done...not!


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## Tony M (17/5/09)

Whatever is easiest for you.
A stockpot comes with a lid which is really handy. 
Both need a thread welded in fotr the valve . 
The concave bottom of the keg may leave more wort behind. 
The keg might be stolen. 
I'm sure this list will get longer and longer with as many pros' as cons'.


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## Cocko (17/5/09)

Agreed, anyways lets move on...

I use a keg, 'keggle', atm and am yet to find a problem with it. I have a 120L pot in transit as I am upsizing batch size capabilities!  

But I guess it come down to a couple of things, cost and availability of said keg, all legal of course!

F*ck if you can get a keg for free or have to pay 200 odd bux for a pot what would you do!

Either way, I assume, you will end up with AG beer... so its worth it!

EDIT: Welcome to AHB!


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## Polar Beer (17/5/09)

sinkas said:


> use the search function FFS



Gees Sinkas. Why don't you help the guy out on his first post? Why even bother replying. 

Northside, 
I've been using a converted keg for ages and I have no problems. However, boiling up 30L of liquid is not the intended use of beer keg. I'd be certain a SS stockpot would be more heat efficient, last longer, be easier to clean etc. Not to mention a hell of a lot easier to get someone to modify it for you, if required. It's harder to get your kegs altered because, it's extremely likely any keg you use will be ripped off. I don't think anyone would cut into a new, shiny, legal, paid for 50L keg. 
I happened to have 2 kegs on hand when I stepped up to real AG. It was an easy decision for me. 

I'm sure someone on here can give you better feedback regarding the pro's on cons of using each.


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## geoffi (17/5/09)

I went with a 50L aluminium kettle bought from a commercial kitchen supplier.

Very happy with it, apart from the size. I should have gone 70L (for double batches.)

That notwithstanding, I recommend the aluminium. Easy to work with (I was able to drill a hole in mine and fit a tap without any dramas...no welding needed), cheaper than stainless steel, better heat conductivity.

And all this stuff about Alzheimer's disease...

Now what was I saying...


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## browndog (17/5/09)

brando said:


> Nice welcoming response to a first-time poster Sinkas! Well done...not!



+1 there brando, some people should think twice before they bother to make the effort for a tosser reply like that.
NN for a detailed reply it would be good if you could tell us what kind of brewing you would like to do, ie batch sizes, gas, electric etc etc

cheers

Browndog


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## raven19 (17/5/09)

Welcome to the forums indeed.

I would say if $$$ are not an issue go for the biggest vessel you can get. Something bigger than 50L will allow you to do double batches with plenty of headspace to reduce boilovers, etc. That being said you can boil a higher gravity batch and water it down after in a keggle.

Maybe try to determine your preferred batch size on a typical brew day, and base your system around that.

Either option will need a tap (either welded or weldless...)/

Another option that may make a difference is are you going gas or electric for boiling.


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## Northside Novice (17/5/09)

Thanks all for advise  
I will be on gas and only single batches to start with and basic ones at that.
Thats not to say i wont step up to double batches in the future. And from the research
i have completed so far a larger pot my save me money in the long run..
That being said, cost will stop me going over the top at the moment ( would love a blichmann boilpot but $700+)
What is wrong with alluminum pots? For the price they seem good value or am i missing the catch?

Thanks to all again.


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## browndog (17/5/09)

northside novice said:


> Thanks all for advise
> I will be on gas and only single batches to start with and basic ones at that.
> Thats not to say i wont step up to double batches in the future. And from the research
> i have completed so far a larger pot my save me money in the long run..
> ...



Mate, there is nothing at all wrong with aluminium. They just don't look as nice as stainless steel.

cheers

Browndog


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## Weizguy (17/5/09)

browndog said:


> Mate, there is nothing at all wrong with aluminium. They just don't look as nice as stainless steel.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Browndog


whichever you can afford. get started and update later. Grab one with enough volume for a single batch. Thick walls are good.

BTW, does the original post seem less offensive when done like this?


sinkas said:


> use the search function FFS   :lol:



Prob a good idea to search the aluminium vs S/S thread.

Les out


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## sinkas (18/5/09)

its trial by fire


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## HoppingMad (18/5/09)

northside novice said:


> What is wrong with alluminum pots? For the price they seem good value or am i missing the catch?
> Thanks to all again.



If you dig around there are quite a few brewers who are adverse to using aluminium as it's supposed to cause altzheimers disease if you brew constantly in this material. Authors such as John Palmer from How To Brew don't have huge problems with it from what I've read and even say aluminium has better heat conductivity than stainless. For the safest way and peace of mind many would recommend you don't use them. I haven't made up my mind really.

Not sure of the research on it and I'm sure there is plenty of research for and against. John Palmer is no doctor so you're best to research yourself. You'd have to dig about on google and here I think to make up your mind. I use stainless vessels and have aluminium lids (old pizza trays with handles) so I guess I'm having a bet each way  . I figure the beer isn't coming in contact with the lid so much. I also use stainless fittings.

If you're looking at fittings on a budget and consider cheap brass ones (like bunnings), that's more of a worry that using aluminium IMHO. You need to pickle them first as they contain traces of lead (which is poisonous) - again searches here and reading How To Brew by Palmer cover these topics in good detail. 

Welcome to the forum,

Hopper.


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## gwozniak (18/5/09)

Hi guys
This reference suggests that aluminium isn't a big concern http://alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/docu...p?documentID=99.

Do you really need a tap on your kettle? At the moment I'm only doing partial boils so can just tip the cooled wort into fermenter by hand. But will be moving to AG and was wanting exclude the hot/cold break material from the fermenter anyway. I was thinking of using some sort of racking hose to get the wort into the fermenter with the first pint or two containing the break material thrown out. Is there some sort of a problem with this? Would save having to weld a tap on.


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## Tim (19/5/09)

It's ironic that many of the AHB members who are adverse to using aluminium boilers are using industrial fire extinguishers as CO2 bottles!

On one hand they are avoiding the mythical chance of 'catching' alzheimers from aluminium, but they are potentially contaminating their beer with all sorts of industrial contaminants with their CO2.


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## Justin (20/5/09)

Go with what you can afford and what you can work with. 50L is good, 70L wont hurt either.

Aluminium is a good affordable option plus it's easy to work with if you want to drill a hole and install a tap (hand drill and a round file for a weldless option). Stainless is a lot harder to work with if you dont have the right tools and you will likely have to pay someone else to do the work or call in a favour. Beware if your "favour" is not real good and experienced working with welding stainless or you will end up with a crappy job on your brand new expensive pot, so consider paying a professional. Stainless is of course a lot nicer but considerably more expensive so it's up to you to see where you want to spend your money. I recommend approaching it as an investment, it's going to last you a damn long time so try not to skimp. It's worth buying a good one.

Please dont even consider a keg, it's just not worth it. You'll be much happier with a stock pot. Nice fitting lid, you can use it in public with out fear and it will take FAR less work to end up with something you can use. In 6 months time you wont even remember the cost of the pot and in all seriousness they end up being some of the cheaper things you buy for a brewery LOL (thinking of all the pumps, fridges, fittings, mills, temp controllers I've bought), especially if they are the aluminium variety, but this holds true for stainless too.

As a starter an Aluminium pot is great and allows you to buy the other bits you need like taps, wort chiller etc, and even if you decide you want stainless down the track your aluminium pot can then become your HLT. Regarding the Alzheimer's link, forget about it (pardon the pun) it's not a concern and honestly you are putting yourself at far greater risk brewing outside in the sun, driving to the HBS to get your supplies or going out to the pub on a Friday night and getting your face smashed in-and for gods sake you better not be dishing out "don't use aluminium" advice if you smoke. Honestly, dont even use the Alzheimers thing as a deciding point it's just not a valid argument. I work in Alzheimers research. Aluminium does not bother me.

So, I say decide how seriously you are into brewing and look at it like an investment. If you can, try not to skimp and you'll be very happy with whatever you purchase. If the alu pot means you can get brewing sooner then do it, if you can afford the stainless then I doubt you'll be disappointed.

Good luck and have fun. In reality there are far more expensive hobbies than brewing so get in and enjoy it.

Cheers, Justin


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## technocat (20/5/09)

browndog said:


> Mate, there is nothing at all wrong with aluminium. They just don't look as nice as stainless steel.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Browndog



Can't agree with you there I have a retired 30L stockpot HG not in use any more, in pristine condition on the outside but badly pitted on the inside. This is after around 10 years of service boiling wort. IMO it is better to save your hard earned cash and go for stainless.

Cheers :icon_cheers:


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## Justin (20/5/09)

Aluminium will pit over time, you might also get some reaction to dissimilar metals in contact with it (brass ball valves/fittings etc). But 10 years isn't a bad innings for a brew kettle at the price you pay for an aluminium pot. This is where the stainless starts to come into it's own, no one argues it is superior. Just depends on what you are prepared to sacrifice, long life or price.

If I had a choice and price was no issue then it would be stainless without a second though. How much are you prepared to swing for your kettle and there is your answer.


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## drtomc (20/5/09)

Quite. For me, and I suspect many starting out with AG, it was impossible to justify the cost of a stainless pot when I wasn't convinced it was going to be a long term hobby. Of course, in hind sight, for most of us, one AG and you're hooked.... 

T.
ps +1 on Justin's Alzheimers argument from someone who works in biomedical research.


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## Scruffy (20/5/09)

Slight Hijack...

So I bought a Rambo yesterday and as soon as Ross receives the delivery, I'll relieve him of a 60l Ally.

Do I really need a tap (i guess that's slightly rhetorical!!), and if so what cheap options are there? ...and what about DIY (no weld) fitting - are they ok for repeated boiling?

Don't worry I'll stop asking questions just before the 'so how do you drink this one...?'  

Thanks guys...


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## chappo1970 (20/5/09)

Scruffy said:


> Slight Hijack...
> 
> So I bought a Rambo yesterday and as soon as Ross receives the delivery, I'll relieve him of a 60l Ally.
> 
> ...



Yes IMO you need a tap and a pick up tube. If you have concerns about doing it yourself bring it over to my Joint as I see your a Brissy boy and I will happily do it for ya. I have had no drama's at all with my weldless fittings but I do suggest not to scrimp if you can as these will give you a life time of service for a little bit more money up front.

Here's a picture on my set up with the rambo and 60lt ali pot with weldless fittings and taps.





Cheers

Chappo


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## Scruffy (20/5/09)

Chappo said:


>



Oh crap... why did you post that pic...

There's another $1500 I'll be giving Ross for all the stuff I now NEED...


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## HoppingMad (20/5/09)

Scruffy said:


> Do I really need a tap (i guess that's slightly rhetorical!!), and if so what cheap options are there? ...and what about DIY (no weld) fitting - are they ok for repeated boiling?



Go for a tap. Means you don't have to put the oven mitts on and tip stuff out of your pot and risk splashing hot stuff everywhere. Plus you definately need it on the vessel you mash/sparge in, as tipping that vessel will disturb the grain bed and result in cloudy wort.

I have weldless fittings (stainless steel h34r from Grain and Grape and they work fine boil after boil. I have silicon hoses like Chappo's pictured as they are heat resistant. Available at most places like craftbrewer and such.

Drilling stainless steel really isn't too hard - but you need to get the right drill bit, do it slowly, and use a lubricating fluid like wd40 for the best result. Drill too fast and stainless heats up and hardens, making it tougher to drill. Drilled mine in a few minutes, but did break a drill bit on one of the three vessels. I believe there is some good info here:GoatHerderBrewing

Cheers,

Hopper.


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## sirotilc (20/5/09)

HoppingMad said:


> Go for a tap. Means you don't have to put the oven mitts on and tip stuff out of your pot and risk splashing hot stuff everywhere. Plus you definately need it on the vessel you mash/sparge in, as tipping that vessel will disturb the grain bed and result in cloudy wort.
> 
> I have weldless fittings (stainless steel h34r: ) from Grain and Grape and they work fine boil after boil. I have silicon hoses like Chappo's pictured as they are heat resistant. Available at most places like craftbrewer and such.
> 
> Drilling stainless steel really isn't too hard - but you need to get the right drill bit, do it slowly, and use a lubricating fluid like wd40 for the best result. Drill too fast and stainless heats up and hardens, making it tougher to drill. Drilled mine in a few minutes, but did break a drill bit on one of the three vessels. I believe there is some good info here:GoatHerderBrewing



I have done 3 brews (2 extract and 1 AG) without a tap - I now have a weldless bulkhead tand tap (plus a lovely pickup w/ hopscreen) from beerbelly. Fiddling about with very hot wort or liquor is not fun. My only trouble now is getting the hole in the pot. As a, er, 'less-than-handyman', who doesn't even own a drill, going straight into stainless steel is a bit of a worry. Does anyone know where you could get it done by a someone who knows what they're doing? I called a few local engineering workshops (inner Sydney area), but they only deal with large scale fabrication stuff. If anyone has a lead to throw me I would appreciate it.


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## phonos (20/5/09)

I've always siphoned out of the kettle. I chill my wort by placing the kettle in the pool, so a tap doesn't really make sense.


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## Scruffy (20/5/09)

Phonos said:


> I've always siphoned out of the kettle. I chill my wort by placing the kettle in the pool, so a tap doesn't really make sense.



Whoaa!! There's a thought. Boil, transfer (syphon, tap, tip, fax...) to cube , seal cube; throw in pool!! You Aussies knock me out...

:icon_cheers:


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