# Rice



## timmi9191 (19/10/15)

Been reading up on making my own flaked rice, anyone have experience with the process?

As an alternative, could the rice just be steamed and placed in the mash? Anyone done this?


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## kunfaced (19/10/15)

I just cook my rice like I would when I eat it, then chuck it in with the rest of the mash. Just make sure to stir and break up the clumps of rice as they coagulate a lot. Alternatively after you have cooked the rice. spread it out on a long piece of baking paper and use a fork to separate the grains. Then chuck it in with your mash


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## wynnum1 (20/10/15)

When you cook the rice it soaks up alot of water and multiplies until it starts to convert can be thick using a smaller amount of malt to start in the mash can help to liqiufy . I put the rice through a coffee grinder first and it still clumps up after boiling.


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## brzt6060 (25/10/15)

I've done a few lagers with rice and they are always winners.

I normally cook up 1 kg of rice until it is really mushy and then add it to the mash like I would grain.
I've stored it over night before in the fridge and then accounted for this in my mash temp I've also waited for it to cool a bit and added it straight to the mash.


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## Bribie G (29/10/15)

As hinted earlier, a good way to deal with the rice is to cook it to a mush in order to gelatinise the starches then, when it cools down to about 74 degrees, stir in half a kilo of your crushed base malt and start stirring. It will start off very thick then suddenly loosen up to a runny soup as the Alpha Amylase in the base malt zaps the starch and turns it into dextrins. This is similar to the cereal mash that American brewers do when making adjunct-heavy beers such as Budweiser.

Then you can tip the whole thing into your main mash to finish converting everything at your chosen mash temperature.
You can also do the same thing with Polenta, a fraction of the cost of flaked maize if you buy it from an Asian supermarket.

Remember to take the original rice cooking water out of your total allowance of water for the entire mash.


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## MartinOC (29/10/15)

Indian groceries.

Flaked rice.

Pre-gelatinised.

Chuck it straight in your mash.

Minimal fluffing-around.

Job done!


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## Bribie G (29/10/15)

Where stores? I haven't seen it in my usual Curry haunts but will look out for some when I'm next in Brisbane at Geeta or the Chinese joints.

ed: talking rice and Chinese I haven't actually used rice for a couple of years as I find the rice maltose syrup for under $2 a tub hits the same spot and has had all the hard work done as well.


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## shmang (29/10/15)

Microwave rice, super easy and works well


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## MartinOC (29/10/15)

Bribie G said:


> Where stores? I haven't seen it in my usual Curry haunts but will look out for some when I'm next in Brisbane at Geeta or the Chinese joints.
> 
> ed: talking rice and Chinese I haven't actually used rice for a couple of years as I find the rice maltose syrup for under $2 a tub hits the same spot and has had all the hard work done as well.
> 
> ...


Yeah, Bribie. I'm pretty sure that's the stuff that UK brewers use when referring to "maltose syrup" in their recipes.

Cheap Chinese stuff. Rice-based, but converted by mashing with enzymatic barley.

Who knows for sure???


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## wynnum1 (30/10/15)

The water used to cook rice has starch in it any idea of how much .


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## MHB (30/10/15)

An hydrometer will tell you that.
Mark


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## timmi9191 (21/11/15)

First time using my own rice rather than purchased.

Used the following Procedure:

1. use a 1:4 ratio of one cup of rice to four cups of water. (1kg of rice 4 litres of water)
2. Bring the water to a boil: Bring the water to boil
3. Add the rice: When the water has come to a boil, stir in the rice, and bring it back to a gentle simmer.
4. Cover and cook: Cover the pot and turn the heat down to low. Don't take off the lid while the rice is cooking — this lets the steam out and affects the cooking time. 20mins.

Ended up 0.01 over predicted OG. (1.050 vs 1.040)

Anyone else experienced this?


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## Bridges (22/11/15)

shmang said:


> Microwave rice, super easy and works well


I may be wrong but don't they use a bit of oil on that stuff to keep the grains from sticking together? Would you want oil in your mash?


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## wynnum1 (12/12/15)

Bribie G said:


> As hinted earlier, a good way to deal with the rice is to cook it to a mush in order to gelatinise the starches then, when it cools down to about 74 degrees, stir in half a kilo of your crushed base malt and start stirring. It will start off very thick then suddenly loosen up to a runny soup as the Alpha Amylase in the base malt zaps the starch and turns it into dextrins. This is similar to the cereal mash that American brewers do when making adjunct-heavy beers such as Budweiser.
> 
> Then you can tip the whole thing into your main mash to finish converting everything at your chosen mash temperature.
> You can also do the same thing with Polenta, a fraction of the cost of flaked maize if you buy it from an Asian supermarket.
> ...


2.25 Kg of rice put through coffee grinder and added to 10 liters of boiling water and heated on hot plate when allowed to cool got thicker was taking forever to cool on hot day so had to add more water to cool .When 72 degrees celsius mixed in a coffee cup of finely ground malted grain .One coffee cup turned glue into liquid .What is in the pot after this is done and with so much rice does it need a protien rest.


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## Bribie G (12/12/15)

I wouldn't think so, there's not much protein in rice anyway.. yeah that "turning instantly into soup" thing is quite impressive isn't it. I'm surprised you got away with just a coffee cup, but being an enzyme I guess a little goes a long way.
I did a rice lager a few weeks ago, just about to keg this afternoon as it happens.


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## Logan_01 (12/12/15)

How do you calculate the OG when using rice? 
My last brew I used 2Kg of rice that was cooked using absorption method (about 3.5L of water), but in beersmith I could only find flaked rice. Is there a cooked rice in beersmith?
My Og ended up about .005 low and I had an extra 3L of wort (58L batch). I assume this was because beersmish assumes the rice to be dry.


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## technobabble66 (12/12/15)

I really have no idea, but I'm guessing the weight in dry rice should be the equivalent in flaked rice. 
So if you do 2kg of rice that you then cook (however), cool and add to your mash, then enter 2kg flaked rice in your spreadsheet/beersmith. 
Seems like that should be about right. Happy to be corrected.

Edit: you've also got to account for the extra liquid in the cooked rice. I'd have to guess, but maybe 2x the dry weight. Either way, weight the wet stuff and the difference to the dry weight is the amount of water you're also adding


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## Greppet (22/12/16)

timmi9191 said:


> First time using my own rice rather than purchased.
> 
> Used the following Procedure:
> 
> ...


Did you just use the water and poured it into the fermenter?

I would like to use rice, and im using LME or Kits right now. So i dont mash and so on.

Thanks in advance.


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## Dae Tripper (22/12/16)

None of the starches would have been turned into sugars, so no. You will need some form of mash to get the result your after.


Greppet said:


> Did you just use the water and poured it into the fermenter?
> 
> I would like to use rice, and im using LME or Kits right now. So i dont mash and so on.
> 
> Thanks in advance.


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## Greppet (22/12/16)

Dae Tripper said:


> None of the starches would have been turned into sugars, so no. You will need some form of mash to get the result your after.


Ok thanks for your help.

Can i use DME and boil it with the rice or do i need to go all grain to get the sugars?


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## manticle (22/12/16)

You need base malt. There are no enzymes in dme for starch conversion.


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## MHB (22/12/16)

I think you would be much more interested in the Glucanase in the malt rather than the Proteases and Amylase. There will be plenty of available Amylase in the main mash when you combine the two.
If you want to liquefy the rice add the malt fraction at low temperature 35oC and heat slowly so you go through the peak activity range of all the enzymes that may do you any good.
I tried this once in a slow cooker (crock pot), crushed rice (through the mill at 0.1mm) and some malt (around 25% of rice, crushed) and it worked well, didn't glug up the main mash at all.
Tipped the "soup" into a jug and weighed it, knowing the mass of rice and malt the balance is water, just deduct that from the calculated sparge water amount.
Mark


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## Weizguy (28/12/16)

manticle said:


> You need base malt. There are no enzymes in dme for starch conversion.


Really?
I believe you can buy diastatic DME or LME that has active amylase. I first read about this in a Brirish brewing book.

I would suggest that Greppet try to source some and give it some time with the cooled (to low 60's °C) rice mash to act and degrade. Greppet seems to be much located closer to the source than we are, if the location is correct.


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## manticle (28/12/16)

Fair call. It seems you can buy diastatic malt extracts and flours designed for baking. I'd never heard of it but worth pointing out the difference between diastatic and non diastatic.


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## Bribie G (28/12/16)

The well known UK firm EDME stands for "Essex Diastatic Malt Extract" company and diastatic liquid malt extract is available in the UK. It is widely used in baking and confectionery to break down starches from flour in numerous recipes. 

During WW2 there was actually an official brewery ship that used Diastatic Malt Extract and adjuncts to brew mild ale for mariners. Onya Churchill, wouldn't happen nowadays.

I don't think it makes it as far as Australia however. Sponsors and suppliers might be able to advise.

For Greppet, mate you might want to hop onto one of the UK forums - we have a sister forum there - as well as another two popular forums, and ask the question "is diastatic malt extract available in the UK", in which case you could no doubt find it in Sweden. Diastatic malt extract would have the enzymes to nuke your rice.


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## MHB (28/12/16)

EDME got brought out by Wanda in the late 90's, I was talking to the owner before the sale about Traddie Malt, at the time it was the only truly red extract on the market. A quick Google - looks like they don't make it any more.

As for Diastatic extract (Liquid or Dry), have never seen one, although they were much discussed in the 80-90's even Graham Wheeler has withdrawn the notion that there were any available. I really think if you were wanting to use large amounts of rice your best options would be mini mashing, or one of the rice syrups (seen them at woolies) you might be able to boil the rice then use an enzyme (like dry enzyme) to saccharify the rice starch.
Mark


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## wessmith (28/12/16)

Try Bintani, I think the pharma industry use a dry version.

Wes


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (28/12/16)

MHB said:


> EDME got brought out by Wanda in the late 90's <snip>
> .
> As for Diastatic extract (Liquid or Dry), have never seen one


Wander still list a diastatic malt extract


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## MHB (28/12/16)

They do, try and buy some tho, you start getting the how many tons do you want on a 3 month lead time... type of questions.
Like I said much heard about but never seen.
Mark


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (28/12/16)

The son of a friend is an apprentice baker with a major chain, I could ask him whether they use any.


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## shacked (20/3/17)

Folks, I'd like to make a nice dry rice lager. Made one with 15% flaked maize earlier this year that turned out quite tasty. 

Can I just throw this stuff straight into my mash or should I cook first? What's a good percentage (of total grist) to shoot for?


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## MHB (20/3/17)

Flaked rice (barley, oats, wheat and maize) can all be added to the mash as is. The flaking process gelatinises the grain, achieving what boiling would otherwise do.
Up to 40% adjunct can be used, tho personally I wouldn't go that far, probably not over 20%, if any as it isn't a style of beer I like.
Mark


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## technobabble66 (20/3/17)

Has anyone tried that liquid rice syrup you can buy in the supermarket?
Does it come out the same as real rice in the mash, or is there a slight difference?


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## MHB (20/3/17)

Has anyone tried that liquid malted barler syrup you can buy in the supermarket?
Does it come out the same as real rice in the mash, or is there a slight difference?


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## wereprawn (20/3/17)

technobabble66 said:


> Has anyone tried that liquid rice syrup you can buy in the supermarket?
> Does it come out the same as real rice in the mash, or is there a slight difference?


I've used it a few times and can't taste the difference , even though it's made from brown rice.


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## Bribie G (20/3/17)

For those who came in late, if you are anywhere near a Chinatown, this maltose rice syrup stuff is cheap as chips - generally only about $2 a pop and goes great in lagers.




It's rice that has been zapped into maltose, the same sugar that's in your wort.


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## technobabble66 (20/3/17)

Saw that in an earlier post, which is part of the reason for asking. 
Basically checking whether the quality is good or not. 
If it's a bit compromised I'd rather use rice in the mash as it's not too hard. But if the quality is about as good as the real thing (sounds like that's what you're saying bribieG) then I might as well use it and save a tiny bit of hassle & space in the grist/MLT for other things, like more malt - Russian imperial rice lager, anyone?


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## Bribie G (20/3/17)

I used to work in Chinatown in Brisbane and I went through heaps of rice maltose syrup in lighter beers, including American Wheats etc. It's very consistent and good quality IMHO. Might chase some up when I'm in BoganVegas next time.


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## Grott (20/3/17)

Bribie G said:


> I used to work in Chinatown


Not in an opium den as a pipe lighter-er I trust. 

Ps. You back to drinking and eating again?


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## Bribie G (20/3/17)

Nope I was just a barman in a brothel.

As for the eating and drinking I'm too pissed to remember at the moment.


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## shacked (20/3/17)

technobabble66 said:


> Has anyone tried that liquid rice syrup you can buy in the supermarket?
> Does it come out the same as real rice in the mash, or is there a slight difference?


I've used this stuff before: https://www.mrvitamins.com.au/htg-org-brown-rice-syrup-500g 

Not sure I'd use it again. I made a hoppy lager with it and it turned out a little odd


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