# Need help for my panel - 220v no Neutral and limited power input



## Fabrizio (11/1/14)

Hello folks,
I`m building an Single vessel unit (Braumeister clone) but i have a few electrical issues in my home.
I live in an old apartment were the outlets are 220V rated 20A. I cannot replace or change this setup.
So i designed the following wiring lay-out and need your experience and guidance for me not to burn my place up.
Please evaluate my design.
Oh, and my PID has a relay that need external power to fire up the SSR.
Thanks
Fabrizio



View attachment NEW ELECTRIC LAYOUT.pdf


----------



## Pokey (11/1/14)

The lights need to be connected in parallel not in series.
It may be a good idea to include a circuit breaker in your box, especially if your outlet is supplied from a fuse, and make sure your earth connections are good.


----------



## Fabrizio (11/1/14)

Pokey
Thanks for your advice on the lights.
The outlet is already protected with a 20a breaker.
Thanks again.


----------



## Ditchnbeer (11/1/14)

To qualify: I am an A grade electrican but have been working as a technician fixing specialised equipment for last 20 years.
There are parts of yr circuit that appear incorrect including the layout of the PID, SSR and 3 way switch. I strongly recomend talking to an electrician to assist you, or contacting another brewer who has experience in building panels. Your subject line contains a worrying comment about 'no neutral' and this, together with earthing, is something that is extremely important with electrical circuits.
I need to know that this will be built correctly and you can enjoy yr beers without frizzy hair.


----------



## Fabrizio (14/1/14)

Ditchnbeer said:


> To qualify: I am an A grade electrican but have been working as a technician fixing specialised equipment for last 20 years.
> There are parts of yr circuit that appear incorrect including the layout of the PID, SSR and 3 way switch. I strongly recomend talking to an electrician to assist you, or contacting another brewer who has experience in building panels. Your subject line contains a worrying comment about 'no neutral' and this, together with earthing, is something that is extremely important with electrical circuits.
> I need to know that this will be built correctly and you can enjoy yr beers without frizzy hair.


Ditchnbeer
Thanks for your advice. The help form a qualified technician is a really great assistance.
A few friends were in doubt in the connections too, so i made a new lay-out and will be glad if you comment.
Thanks again
Fabrizio


View attachment NEW ELECTRIC LAYOUT.pdf


----------



## wessmith (14/1/14)

Fabrizios power supply looks to me like a 2 phase service commonly found in US homes where heavier current is required. ie kitchen and laundry. I think Brazil has the same 110v 60Hz service as the US and is not an MEN system. In any event he needs to get a local electrician to advise on his setup as Ditchnbeer suggested - especially the earthing.

Wes


----------



## Fabrizio (15/1/14)

wessmith said:


> Fabrizios power supply looks to me like a 2 phase service commonly found in US homes where heavier current is required. ie kitchen and laundry. I think Brazil has the same 110v 60Hz service as the US and is not an MEN system. In any event he needs to get a local electrician to advise on his setup as Ditchnbeer suggested - especially the earthing.
> 
> Wes


Wess,
Whe are supplied by either 110V, 220V, 360V, 440V and plus, in 60hz (with Neutral and Ground from the distributor).
I have 110v and 220v in my Electric Power Panel.
All my 110v (Fase+Neutral+Ground) outlets are rated 10A, and all my 220v (F+F+G) are rated 20A.
It would be easy to make changes in my Panel and in a chosen outlet, but due to my contract, any changes in this structure are prohibited.
So i`m working with only one 220 20A outlet.

The 10A and 20A plugs and outlets are called as "Brazilian Standard" and are like this:



We can work with 110 (F+N+G) and 220 (F+F+G) with the standard outlets and plugs, but for a 110+220V (F+F+N+G) system i need a 4 poles outlet and plug. Or work with 2 separate power wires, one in 110 and another in 220 as suggested.
Thanks
Fabrizio


----------

