# Roasting Grain



## sid (23/4/10)

Hit there all.

last week I roasted my own grains out of pilsner, i roasted what I consider to be vienna/light munich (200F for an hour) and went hard for chocolate but ended up only getting brown................I roasted at 400F for an hour, which I read should make chocolate grain, any ideas at the temp and Time I need to use to achieve my own chocolate grain?

the smell of the roasting was damn good going through the house, the brown smoked slightly..............I suppose the chocolate will smoke the house out, heheh.

Thanks guys


----------



## unrealeous (23/4/10)

sid said:


> Hit there all.
> 
> last week I roasted my own grains out of pilsner, i roasted what I consider to be vienna/light munich (200F for an hour) and went hard for chocolate but ended up only getting brown................I roasted at 400F for an hour, which I read should make chocolate grain, any ideas at the temp and Time I need to use to achieve my own chocolate grain?
> 
> ...


I've never tried this - but it would appear you are probably not far off - another half an hour might do it. I believe the pro's force the hot air through the grain, so if you are using an oven, you might need even longer. 

*Roasted malts, black and chocolate*, are produced by starting with a well modified malt that has been kilned. The malt is placed in a unvented roasting drum and heated to about 70 degrees. The malt is wetted to increase its moisture content to about 5%. The malt is held at this temperature and moisture content for about 2 hours after which the temperature is *raised to somewhere between 175 and 200 [395F] degrees for about an hour and a half depending on the colour and flavour required.*

http://www.absolutehomebrew.com.au/?page_id=29


----------



## hazard (23/4/10)

sid said:


> Hit there all.
> 
> last week I roasted my own grains out of pilsner, i roasted what I consider to be vienna/light munich (200F for an hour) and went hard for chocolate but ended up only getting brown................I roasted at 400F for an hour, which I read should make chocolate grain, any ideas at the temp and Time I need to use to achieve my own chocolate grain?



As I understand, chocolate malt (and black malt) is roasted in a drum at high temp, and water is continuously injected to stop the malt from charring. This method was invented (and patented) in 1815, hence common name for black malt is still patent malt. The whole point of this, is that if you dry roast malt, it's possible to get brown malt, but go further and the malt will start to char. So, my assumption is that it is not possible to make youre own chocolate malt at home in the oven. But many home brew shops sell it .... (sorry to be a wise guy, home brew is of course a DIY hobby but how far do you take DIY??? Do you fabricate your own kettle from sheet metal? Do you injection mould your own esky mash tun? Do you make your own malt? NO!)


----------



## zebba (23/4/10)

To quote Mosher from Radical Brewing:


> Kilned grain will brew darker then it looks. A golden looking kernal will brew a pretty toasty tasting beer, and is suitable in brown ales. A copper colored [sic] grain tastes sharply roasty. Sometimes it's best to just go by the aroma, and take the grain out of the oven as soon as it smells right


In addition, he makes the following suggestions:
- A soak for a couple of hours before roasting will give a richer, maltier flavour. Roasting dry will tend towards sharper, dryer flavours. 
- Give them a couple of weeks to mellow out or you'll get harsh, burnt aroma

I'm also looking to give this a bit of a try some time in the nearish future. I'd love to hear some results of the final brew.


----------



## Nick JD (23/4/10)

When A BIABag has been hanging for an hour, a circle on the bottom of the bag about 10cm wide ends up covered in sticky sugaz. 

I open the bag and scoop out all the sugarless grain and get about a cup or two of the sticky stuff at the bottom. 

Spread it evenly on a tray and oven roast it until it's the right colour. 

It's fully converted so not really darken grains but more caramelised maltose etc.


----------



## Stagwa (23/4/10)

Hi Sid,

Check out These Guys in FNQ they malt and roast their own grain.

I think the key is to have a temp gauge in the grain inside the oven. I have tried to make roasted barley but relied on the oven temp controller and it took ages, wasn't as dark as I was expecting and maybe a bit dry but still had the roasted taste I was after.

Cheers,
Stagwa


----------



## sid (23/4/10)

thanks for all the replies guys, good idea's.

I'll keep you posted on the beer I make using the vienna grain I roasted (sunday brew day), I'll be using 3kg of that in this batch, so it'll give me a good idea of the grains colour and flavour, smelt bloody good............amazing how much an hour changed the aroma of the pilsner.

Chocolate/roast might be best bought as I don't use too much of this, but I'll have a play during the day and see if I can achieve it.

I'll try spraying an a little manuka honey as well, onto a small batch of grain before I lightly roast it, hopefully it'll impart a good flavour.

Got to experiment, heheh.


----------



## Nick JD (23/4/10)

Does roasting destroy the enzymes?


----------



## Fourstar (23/4/10)

one way to keep the oven moist whilst you are roasting is to add a cake pan full of boiled kettle water to the bottom of the oven! :icon_cheers:


----------



## Fourstar (23/4/10)

Hmm, you guys have kinda inspired me to have some fun tonight or tomorrow and roast some grains. maybe make a homemade brown malt, crystal and something else very cool!

Ive done a little googling and ive seen somone has used pearl barley to make roast barley. Very cool, it would almost be like a home made version of unmalted Carafa! :icon_cheers: 

I might try and find a hippy/health store where i can get 'hulled barley' so its still got all the bran etc and isnt polished like pearl barley. a little more protection for the starch.


----------



## zebba (23/4/10)

Nick JD said:


> Does roasting destroy the enzymes?


My understanding was it did, but it was a gradual process.

If you read up on Biscuit or Vienna malts, for example, they have enough enzyme to convert themselves but if you are adding adjuncts (i.e. rice) there won't be enough to convert them. 

But then, the darker you go with the malt, the less you're using in the grist, so you can just put in some pilsener if you are needing more converting power and it won't have a negative impact on the colour.


----------



## Fourstar (23/4/10)

Zebba said:


> But then, the darker you go with the malt, the less you're using in the grist, so you can just put in some pilsener if you are needing more converting power and it won't have a negative impact on the colour.



Im tempted todo this and try and recreate a traditional porter or stout with highly kilned traditional style amber and brown malts.


----------



## absinthe (23/4/10)

Vienna and Munich malts are kilned differently than pilsner and pale malts, pilsner and pale are dried and then kilned but Vienna and Munich are kilned with a lot more moisture still in the grain (this also destroys some of the enzyme) but also spend a lot of time being gently warmed in a humid environment but they are still kilned at about the same temp and length of time as plisner and pale but end up slightly darker as some of the sugars have been converted. 

i have alway roasted my own malts, and you can make chocolate malt at home but patent malt is a little more difficult, but i have managed it, i roast in a deep tray inside a hooded BBQ as it can make lots of smoke, its very hard to get an even roast without a rolling drum, but it doesn't matter you will get more of a depth of flavor

also remember it will brew a lot darker than the grain looks.. 

also to see how its roasting split the grain in half and look at the starch it will darken almost twice as fast as the hull. 

another good tip is to keep samples of malts you have made and liked (in my case). i keep a few whole and some split so i can see the insides stuck to the sheet i record all the temps methods and times for each malt i make, or to have a sample of the malt you want to reproduce. also pull the malt a little early as it will continue to darken slightly (unless like me you have converted a dryer as your malt dryer/kiln/roast malt cooler, because i can just throw the malt in the dryer when i like the roast and blast cold air through it to stop the roast.)

some very good resources:
http://oz.craftbrewer.org/Library/Methods/.../roasting.shtml
http://www.homebrewchatter.com/board/f34/m...al-malts-t7233/
http://mosquitobytes.com/Den/Beer/Hmbrewing/Malt.html
http://brewery.org/library/Malt_AK0996.html



> Do you make your own malt? NO!)



I DO!!! i always have


----------



## Fourstar (23/4/10)

absinthe said:


> Vienna and Munich malts are kilned differently than pilsner and pale malts, pilsner and pale are dried and then kilned but Vienna and Munich are kilned with a lot more moisture still in the grain (this also destroys some of the enzyme) but also spend a lot of time being gently warmed in a humid environment but they are still kilned at about the same temp and length of time as plisner and pale but end up slightly darker as some of the sugars have been converted.




My understanding was they are dried (post germination) at different temperatures and ventilation to obtain their desired moisture %!? Also, the higher kilned malts begin their kilning at a higher moisture content %. e.g. 20% for munich over 10% for pale/pilsner?!

An important thing to note is the extra mositure content does reduce the diastatic power as it is kilned but it does enable the malt to gain that characteristic melanoiden profile you seek from munich.

If you just bake pilsner/pale malt to turn it to munich, the melanoiden profile will not be the same as standard munich. A possible way to get around this would be to weigh the grain and steep in cold water until it gains 10% moisture~ then attempt to convert it to munich malt by baking at around 100-105deg for around 2 hours.

I wonder if its possible to make a brown malt @ munich temperatures (105 deg) and still keep the enzymatic power that Munich Malt has? This would be a great way to recreate a historic porter. With the exception of the traditional fire dried smoke effect, a 10% rauchmaltz addition would cover that or indirectly smoke some of the brown malt might be an option too.

ideas ideas ideas. Ive got a few plans floating around for the VICBREW specialty category for this year, im sure this one will go into the thought bag. :icon_cheers:


----------



## Fourstar (23/4/10)

Wow, some detailed kilning infromation available rom castle maltings. :icon_cheers: 

i might send them an email about recreating traditional brown malt in the home environment.

http://www.castlemalting.com/CastleMalting...anguage=English


----------



## Fourstar (23/4/10)

so ive got myself 500g of JW Pils

Soaked it in filtered water for 20 mins.

Cranked to oven to 190, once at temp dumped the gran in and stirred x2 every 5 mins to dry the malt out.

dropped to 165~ for 20 mins and stirred every ten mins x2 Cranked abck to 190 until the malt began to pop like popcorn and pulled it out (like 1st crack with coffee.)

Turns out the kilning is exactly how i wanted it. Very very close in appearance(the endosperm) to Dingemans biscuit. :icon_cheers: 

Flavour. well when chewed the dingemans biscuit is somewhat sweet with overtones of old bread and breadcrusts. slightly doughy and somewheat melanoiden like. 

My biscuit (still warm, will have to retaste in a weeks time after mellowing) big starchy nuttiness, mildy sweet (remnants of the pils malt falvour) and deep munich like breadcrust/bakery notes.

pics to follow

Tomorrow, medium crystal wheat and traditional style brown malt (after learning about the popping stage, also known as blown malt.) :icon_cheers: 

the whole house smells like a digestive biscuit atm! :icon_drool2:


----------



## Wolfy (23/4/10)

sid said:


> any ideas at the temp and Time I need to use to achieve my own chocolate grain?


Not sure I can help you with chocolate, but this table from Radical Brewing (pp 225) might help others attempting to roast their own grains:
"_Time / Temp C / Colour (L) / Flavour
20 / 121 / Pale Gold (10) / Nutty, not toasty
25 / 149 / Gold (20) / Malty, caramelly rich, not toasty
30 / 177 / Amber (35) / Nutty, malty, lightly toasty
40 / 191 / Deep Amber (65) / Nutty, toffee-like, crisp toastiness
30 / 204 / Copper (100) / Strong toasted flavour, some nutlike notes
40 / 204 / Deep Copper (125) / Roated, not toated, like porter or coffee
50 / 204 / Brown (175) / Strong roasted flavor

For amber first wet the malt by soaking for fifteen minutes or so_."

Unfortunately it seems that roasting-your-own is very much a test-it-and-see type approach. Even in the book on various different pages the time/temperature/duration suggested varies quite dramatically.

I've made some nice Amber and Brown toasted malt (it's in the mash tun right now) but am not yet at the sage where I can duplicate/predict what will happen with each batch.
I use the table above to predict oven temps, then check/taste/stir (especially for wet grain) every 10 mins until I have the flavour/colour I'm looking for.

Two more notes from the book to keep in mind when roasting-your-own:
"_Always keep in mind that malt brews darker than it looks_."
"_Do this a couple of weeks in advance to allow the harsh flavors to mellow before brewing._"


----------



## sid (23/4/10)

Fourstar said:


> Tomorrow, medium crystal wheat and traditional style brown malt (after learning about the popping stage, also known as blown malt.) :icon_cheers:
> 
> the whole house smells like a digestive biscuit atm! :icon_drool2:



Its addictive this roasting, I done the old taste test on the brown, tasted quite nutty to me, cut the kernel open and had quite rich brown colour in there.................wish I'd soaked my grain a bit now, as this would have put a slight crystal coating on the grain I think..............next time.

The brown really popped compared the the vienna, Id say the the darker grains would go off like a rocket, heh.

Good info coming up on this, absinth your coverted dryer sounds very interesting.

My grains have been resting a week sunday, so I'll turn out a batch of beer sunday and see what it makes.


----------



## sid (23/4/10)

Wolfy said:


> Not sure I can help you with chocolate, but this table from Radical Brewing (pp 225) might help others attempting to roast their own grains:
> "_Time / Temp C / Colour (L) / Flavour
> 20 / 121 / Pale Gold (10) / Nutty, not toasty
> 25 / 149 / Gold (20) / Malty, caramelly rich, not toasty
> ...



some good stuff there wolfy, I had to allowed an extra 10 minutes for the brown........due to my old oven.
One thing with the darker grain, is cooling them down, mine I would say cooked on a bit more than I wanted as I put them from the roasting dish to a glass bowl...........I think I'd better spread them out next time to cool quicker.


----------



## Fourstar (23/4/10)

sid said:


> some good stuff there wolfy, I had to allowed an extra 10 minutes for the brown........due to my old oven.



From what i can gather according to the flavour notes, the colours being discussed there are the colour of the grain husk, not the actual Lov of the kilned malt/endosperm. As you can see, the noted colour there is 170L where as brown malt is usually around 60 Lov. the malt you have produced is something more akin to and acrid chocolate malt.

Im tempted todo this whole blown malt / brown malt thing and pull out a traditional style 1800 style porter as they started to convert to using some pale malt W/black patent malt etc due to the cost of malt.

A recipe like

66% Ale
33% Brown Malt/Blown Malt
1% Roast Barley/Black Patent.


Now im sure you are thinking the colour is off. Well thats true, its also believed the old day porters where not so much black/stout territory but light brown to even red in some texts ive read. More reading to follow. :icon_cheers:


----------



## MHB (24/4/10)

Malt colour, in every country bar one is measured in EBC, which is the absorption of a 10% solution of a given malt after it has been processed by a standardised laboratory test called the "Congress Mash". The colour test only measures the amount of blue light absorbed by the sample as a specific frequency. Any relationship to flavour is coincidental.

The outside of the grain has little direct bearing on the result as the grain is pulverised to perform the test and the test measures the colour of the Extract, i.e. what goes into solution when the grain is mashed, not what the malt looks like in the bag.

The big difference between Black and Roast is that "Roasted Barley" is un-malted, Black (or Patent) is roasted, green malt (that is to say barley that's been sprouted before roasting); and both are close to the same colour ~ 1200 EBC.

Arthur Guinness first popularised "Roast Barley" to avoid excise, which at the time was levied on malt, not alcohol, so getting the colour into stout was cheaper if he used roast barley rather than black malt.

Thinking that the "Colour" of malt is the only thing that changes the flavour of the beer made from that malt is way off the mark. The flavours that come from malt start in the field where the barley is grown, the maltster chooses barley to make various "Malts" and part of the art of malting is to choose the right barley for different products. If you want to make Carra/Crystal malt you want high protein barley that provides lots of amino acids to be combined with sugars to encourage the development of Milliard Products and colour development in the finished malt. Amber and Brown malt are also made from high protein barley, in fact they are made from Mild Malt, a unique British malt that we can't buy in Australia.

Just "cooking" Pilsner Malt (chosen for its low protein content) won't make it into Munich, modifying base malt won't make really first class Carra/Crystal either. Malting is the combination of both an art and a science, and there are fundamental principles that underpin the craft. Before you decide to undertake malt modification it would be useful to familiarise yourself with the basics of both.

To my mind if you care about the beer you are making choose the finest malt, made by the best maltsters from the most appropriate grain.



MHB



Four Star, have asked you this before but again "why do you keep posing Lo (Lovebond), and SRM (standard Reference Method)"?

Is it possible that you don't understand modern brewing terminology? There are two standards used in brewing, put simply American Society of Brewing Chemists (ASBC) and European Brewing Convention (EBC), commonly referred to as the rest of the world!

We don't live in in the USA; we can't buy malt with either Lovebond or SRM specifications, we can't buy by the pound, nor do we mash in by the gallon if you want what you have to say to be taken seriously I would suggest you catch up with the 21st century and quit regurgitating American crap, or emigrate.

Mark



Disclaimer

Posting whilst ripped to the tits, I can't leave the building because they have a RBT unit parked on the footpath out the front usually I avoid posting while pissed but what the hell.

M


----------



## Wolfy (24/4/10)

MHB said:


> To my mind if you care about the beer you are making choose the finest malt, made by the best maltsters from the most appropriate grain.


 I care about the beer, but think more in terms of selecting the best and most appropriate malt for the situation.

In some cases - a clone beer for example - you want the malt that most closely matches what is used to make the cloned-beer, quite often that will not be the finest/best available.

In situations where I've tried toasting my own malt, I've done it in order to achieve a specific aim:
I wanted a Scottish/Scotch Ale - flavoured by caramelizing the first runnings, rather than specialty grain - to have a touch of 'almost smokyness' in the flavour and some enhanced colour, so rather than use all pale malt and a touch of roasted barley, I toasted some of the pale malt in an attempt to add a hint of the additional flavour I was looking for.

The wort I was mashing earlier was adapted from a 200 year old recipe, so I thought it was more 'authentic' to toast a bit of the base malt to add touches of amber and brown, rather than using the best/finest/appropriate/scientifically selected/modern malt, since - I imagine - 200 years ago malt from every corner of the globe would not have been available. For the same reason I used home-grown hops (I have no idea of their exact AA %), because 200 years ago - I imagine - a brewer would have used hops grown by the farmer down the road (so to speak), rather than a specific scientifically analysed and calculated vacuum-foil-sealed pack with AA values printed on it.

Maybe I'm role-playing too much for you (or something) but I made the decision to self-toast some malt because I thought it was the best and most appropriate malt for the situation.


MHB said:


> Four Star, have asked you this before but again "why do you keep posing Lo (Lovebond), and SRM (standard Reference Method)"?


I'm not sure if you can blame 4* - this time - since I quoted an American book, I simply included the L values because they were part of the quote from the American author.


----------



## Batz (24/4/10)

I can understand brewers wanting to have a go at this but really is it worth it? I mean the price of 1 kg of roasted grain that you know the specs of, compared to something roasted yourself of which you have little idea of the results.
My opinion only but I would not trust a ruining a brew with home roasted grain.

Home smoked grain is another matter, although yet to try either.


Batz


----------



## sid (24/4/10)

Fourstar said:


> From what i can gather according to the flavour notes, the colours being discussed there are the colour of the grain husk, not the actual Lov of the kilned malt/endosperm. As you can see, the noted colour there is 170L where as brown malt is usually around 60 Lov. the malt you have produced is something more akin to and acrid chocolate malt.
> 
> Im tempted todo this whole blown malt / brown malt thing and pull out a traditional style 1800 style porter as they started to convert to using some pale malt W/black patent malt etc due to the cost of malt.
> 
> ...



Your are actually right on the colour with the brown malt, I have just put some in a glass with hot water and matched to a bought sample of brown malt, the colour difference is quite big, I'd say I'm nearer chocolate than I thought.............so I'd be looking at around 30 minutes at 390F for brown I reckon..................this was the time and temp for a brown malt that I found on the net...........but when I done my chcolate at 400F for 60min the outside of the grain turned out the colour of brown and not the colour of the chocolate grain that I would buy...........quite decieving that.

An old porter would be a good drop, I enjoy the emmersons porter here in NZ but it does tend to be darker towards a stout in colour.


----------



## MHB (24/4/10)

Ok so you want to reproduce a 200 year old beer, reading the thread there are lots of ideas posted about what to do. First step would be to look at brewing and malting practices from the period.

Is your beer going to be sour 200 years ago I suspect all beer was lacto infected.

Around that time maltsters were changing from wood fired to coal fired drying floors Amber and Brown malt were dried/kilned on floors that allowed the gases from the fire to permeate up through the malt so originally these malts would have been quite smoky, after the introduction of coal heating brewers found that people didn't like anthracite ale which lead to changes in the way the heating was done, which naturally changed the taste of the malt and the beer.

The development of the new drying technology leads directly to the availability of Pale Malt similar to what we use today

Similarly with the idea of caramelising first runnings, it's a novel idea but is or was it ever a practice used by brewers? I suspect not as I can't find a single reference to the practice as part of brewing. No denying it changes something in the beer but strongly suspect it isn't a way to reproduce archaic beer.

Modern Amber and Brown malt are made to be similar to the old styles, these are produced so that brewers can reproduce old beer styles. Just randomly toasting any old grain isn't a very faithful or even well directed attempt to achieve this.

It might be fun to muck about with but be aware that that's all you're doing, mucking around.

MHB


----------



## Stuster (24/4/10)

MHB said:


> Around that time maltsters were changing from wood fired to coal fired drying floors Amber and Brown malt were dried/kilned on floors that allowed the gases from the fire to permeate up through the malt so originally these malts would have been quite smoky, after the introduction of coal heating brewers found that people didn't like anthracite ale which lead to changes in the way the heating was done, which naturally changed the taste of the malt and the beer.



Coal was used a bit earlier than that, Mark. There's a good piece from a brewing text from 1750 on the Barclay Perkins site. They were not in favour of the smoke.



> THERE is a great variety in the article of fewel for malt, some kinds being cheaper, some dearer ; and some better, Others worse. However this is not so absolute, but that some of those which are bad for the drying certain forts, may be proper for others.
> The principal kinds of fuel are five: 1. Coak; 2. Welch- coal ; 3. Straw ; 4. Wood ; and 5. Dry fern or brakes. What is to be done by this fuel is to dry the malt, and nothing more : no flavour is required from it, and therefore the purer the fire is, and the cleaner the malt is dried by it the better. All smoak is wrong; and therefore all those fuels that yield a great deal of smoak, are to be rejected in the drying the nice malts.



With all fuels they are trying to avoid smoke flavours in the malt and there's no doubt it could be done with wood as well.


----------



## Wolfy (24/4/10)

MHB said:


> It might be fun to muck about with but be aware that that's all you're doing, mucking around.


The Scottish Heavy was from JZ's book/podcast and suggested by both as more 'traditional' - 'Brewing Classic Styles' pp 127 can be your first reference to the technique, 'Radical Brewing' pp. 129 also suggests that for a Scottish Wee Heavy "_a good amount of kettle caramelization adds malty flavors_" so that can be the second.

The recipe I used the other home-toasted malts for was 'adapted' by Randy Mosher, where he suggests as part of the recipe the home-toasted of the malt.
I presume that as part of the 'adaption', he'd take into account as many resonable factors as possible to to simulate a beer from 200 years ago as best as possible, keeping in mind it would be brewed in a normal home-brew situation, from what I can tell after reading his book, he is quite interested in old recipes and adapting them to modern setups.

I make no pretense of having any in-depth knowledge in many of these subjects - as you obviously do - however, I'm more than happy to read/trust the published 'experts' and and 'muck about' under their guidance.

In addition, I'm happy to provide 'help' and suggestions to other AHB members if I feel I can provide something useful, in this case I felt information from a published book that - others may not have read - would provide assistance directly related to the topic at hand. I also hope that the information I provided is at least as useful - if not more so - to the topic at hand and than the suggestions and ideas that you have contributed.


----------



## Fourstar (24/4/10)

MHB said:


> Four Star, have asked you this before but again "why do you keep posing Lo (Lovebond), and SRM (standard Reference Method)"?
> Is it possible that you don't understand modern brewing terminology? There are two standards used in brewing, put simply American Society of Brewing Chemists (ASBC) and European Brewing Convention (EBC), commonly referred to as the rest of the world!
> We don't live in in the USA; we can't buy malt with either Lovebond or SRM specifications, we can't buy by the pound, nor do we mash in by the gallon if you want what you have to say to be taken seriously I would suggest you catch up with the 21st century and quit regurgitating American crap, or emigrate.
> Mark



I can understand the gripe Mark, Imperial measurement gets under my skin a little too. I only use SRM and continue to use SRM because of BJCP and wanting to try and get a good mark so its become habitual. Also the fact i hade dealing with rediculously high numbers that EBC deals with. Do i know the differences between them? Yes! Can i equate a rough figure in difference between a 300SRM crystal and its equivilant in EBC? Yes. roughly .375 * or / depending on what way you want to go.




MHB said:


> Ok so you want to reproduce a 200 year old beer, reading the thread there are lots of ideas posted about what to do. First step would be to look at brewing and malting practices from the period.
> 
> Is your beer going to be sour 200 years ago I suspect all beer was lacto infected.
> 
> ...




Thanks for the infromation above, i did a whole bunch of research on old malting techniques yesterday and have read a few papers online regarding the historical porter a few months back:
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=ma...ion%3Aamericana

All the talk about modern day brown malt and traditional brown malt being the same or a modern day spin on it seems somewhat far from the truth (unless im interpreting the texts wrong?) 

My understanding was the traditional brown malt, as you note was smoky due to the use of wood fired ovens and also was kiln dried at typical temperatures (roughly 45?) then was ramped as hot as they could get the fire to achieve the darkening and 'blown malt' (i couldnt find any difinitive temperatures and i doubt 80-110 deg would 'blow' the malt). I also dont understand how they continued to keep some their diastatic power and brewed 100% brown malt beers with this but it kind of makes sense as there are details they note of rather low efficiencies. was it because of the quick fast ramp to brown/blow the malt?

My attmept to make brown malt is just out of fun and maybe attempt to make a traditional porter as an experiment. Im looking for the bran to be signifigantly darkened and puffed and maybe some of the endosperm to be coloured lightly as well. I might kiln it at length at 110 for an hour or so then ramp the oven as hot as she goes until they begin to pop. As for the traditional porter, no i wont lactic infect it but i will add a touch of rauch to simulate the smokiness that is described in historical texts. I might even play with some lactic acid by the glass and if it turns out great, i may innoculate the whole keg. I guess we are coming down to 'fresh beer' and aged really.

As you said, its just abit of fun mucking around likewise how im currently making some crystal wheat, currently whole grain mashing it after a 16 hour soak. Will i use it? Probably. Will i achieve awesome results with it? Probabaly not, but its better to have tried and failed than to have not tried at all hey!

So please, no need to be the naysayer and destroy all my hopes and dreams when im just having a bit of fun. Im not expecting to revolutionise the brewing world with my home made malt.

Besaides, all this research and hands on prac is going to help me with my BJCP anyway. :beerbang:


----------



## Stuster (24/4/10)

Fourstar said:


> My understanding was the traditional brown malt, as you note was smoky due to the use of wood fired ovens



Not really.

Also, while some beers were certainly sour, it's not like every beer was nearly a lambic. For one thing, the low attenuation these beers go would suggest there wasn't high levels of contamination in there, with other microbes fermenting out all the sugars. I believe that most (all?) barrels were lined and a lot of beers were drunk fresh so the souring wouldn't have been extreme in any case. It certainly seems that brett would have been in the stock beers though.


----------



## Fourstar (24/4/10)

Stuster said:


> Not really.




how so? from what ive read, Blown/Brown/Snap malt was generally made by loading as much oak into the furnace as they could which would also permeate the malt. and get it as hot as quickly as possible. Hence the popping and snapping.


----------

