# Fergis 1st All Grain Happening Now



## fergi (6/2/11)

hi guys, just started my 1st all grain, smurtos golden ale, i have just started my mash and hit my 66 deg smack on= 66.2. thought that might be my first problem for the day but i am happy to start with that. doing a 60 minute mash., back later
fergi


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## kenlock (6/2/11)

Awesome! :beerbang: How much fun is that!


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## Lecterfan (6/2/11)

Go you good thing!
:icon_chickcheers:


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## Crusty (6/2/11)

fergi said:


> hi guys, just started my 1st all grain, smurtos golden ale, i have just started my mash and hit my 66 deg smack on= 66.2. thought that might be my first problem for the day but i am happy to start with that. doing a 60 minute mash., back later
> fergi




Off to a great start fergi, keep it going. :kooi:


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## bignath (6/2/11)

I love it when a plan comes together!

just don't leave your fermenter tap on when you transfer all your good work from your kettle.... :icon_cheers: 

keep us posted on your progress mate.

Nath


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## fergi (6/2/11)

4 minutes to go for end of mash, hope my pvc manifold works, this is the next hurdle,hope it doesnt get stuck, temp still looks good, 66 deg.
fergi


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## fergi (6/2/11)

draining mash into boiler now, first runnings, looks good, nice light gold color, no crap in it except for 1st litre which i put back through, 
fergi


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## Fuggle (6/2/11)

fergi said:


> draining mash into boiler now, first runnings, looks good, nice light gold color, no crap in it except for 1st litre which i put back through,
> fergi



I find if I don't open my esky lid during run offs, I get good run offs,

If I open the lid, I get stuck sparges...


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## fergi (6/2/11)

1st runnings still draining, how long will it take to run through, smells good.
fergi


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## Crusty (6/2/11)

fergi said:


> draining mash into boiler now, first runnings, looks good, nice light gold color, no crap in it except for 1st litre which i put back through,
> fergi




I take it you will be doing a batch sparge?
Split the sparge volume & heat both additions to required sparge temp, double batch sparge. My efficiency sky rocketed from 76 to 84.2% doing this.
Going great fergi.


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## fergi (6/2/11)

Crusty said:


> I take it you will be doing a batch sparge?
> Split the sparge volume & heat both additions to required sparge temp, double batch sparge. My efficiency sky rocketed from 76 to 84.2% doing this.
> Going great fergi.




yes i am doing a double batch sparge,looks ogo so far.
fergi


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## bignath (6/2/11)

Fergi, what your experiencing today is what happens when people make informed decisions based on some good questions and obviously thorough research.

It really is awesome watching your threads come through showing us all that you clearly understand what it is your doing and what you want to achieve..

top notch fella!

That beer your making will be the best you've ever made - guaranteed. 
The hardest part is behind you (process wise). Sure you still have to ferment it, but you have to do that regardless of "how you brew". 

Bring her to the boil man, add the hops, chill it if you want/can, done and dusted!

Cheers,
Nath

BTW, it usually takes me 40/50mins to collect my runnings for a 26lt preboil volume. I tend to go slowly as i've been stung with a couple of stuck sparges when i first started AG'ing. Haven't had one since by taking my time.


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## fergi (6/2/11)

OOPS,,, i am not sure if i just stuffed up, i am draining my mash tun into my kettle but i am just letting it run through the tap and splashing into the kettle, is this bad or should i be having a tube on the tap so it doesnt splash.
fergi


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## Fuggle (6/2/11)

That's ok, just don't let it splash around after its fermented


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## humulus (6/2/11)

Crusty said:


> I take it you will be doing a batch sparge?
> Split the sparge volume & heat both additions to required sparge temp, double batch sparge. My efficiency sky rocketed from 76 to 84.2% doing this.
> Going great fergi.


Hey Crusty probably a dumb question,but do you mean heating your first runnings from the mash tun to sparge temp and putting them back through the mash?,im after anything that will help with my efficiency!
cheers humulus


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## fergi (6/2/11)

Fuggle said:


> That's ok, just don't let it splash around after its fermented




PHEW,,,,thanks.
fergi


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## fergi (6/2/11)

PROBLEM,, pvc manifold in mash tunhas come apart, so my mash will run through the open pipes, i am going to put a fine hessian bag over the tap to see if that will stop the crap and fix the problem, BUGGER.
fergi


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## manticle (6/2/11)

Fuggle said:


> That's ok, just don't let it splash around after its fermented




I disagree.

Fergi - splashing hot wort can lead to hot side aeration. Splashing fermenting wort while the yeast is in anerobic phase can also lead to oxidation and is best avoided. The only time wort should be splashed is during the early part of the yeast's growth cycle.

Some people don't see this (HSA) as a problem on a homebrew scale and it may not matter if you don't plan to store the beer. Your beer won't automatically die so don't panic but next time I'd recommend using a tube - it's easy to do and gives peace of mind.

Congrats on your first.


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## Crusty (6/2/11)

humulus said:


> Hey Crusty probably a dumb question,but do you mean heating your first runnings from the mash tun to sparge temp and putting them back through the mash?,im after anything that will help with my efficiency!
> cheers humulus




Hi Hum,

I mean after you collect your first runnings & your mashtun is fully drained, instead of for example, sparging with 14lts water, break that into two x 7 litre sparges. Heat up your first 7 litres to desired sparge temp, add to mashtun, stir for a bit, let it settle for about 5mins or so, collect & return to mashtun & when clear let it go to kettle. Repeat this for the second batch sparge. I started doing this after omitting a mashout in my brew steps & my efficiency is always 80%+.

fergi,
Regarding your splashing into the kettle, manticle has a good point. HSA is often hotly debated & probably not so important on a home brew scale. Just get into the practice of never letting your wort splash at any stage throughout the brewing process until it is chilled to fermenting temperature. This is the time to add oxygen to the wort to kick start your yeast addition. I gravity feed from my kettle to my fermenter so it foams up quite a bit, that seems to add enough oxygen to the wort for me.


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## fergi (6/2/11)

manticle said:


> I disagree.
> 
> Fergi - splashing hot wort can lead to hot side aeration. Splashing fermenting wort while the yeast is in anerobic phase can also lead to oxidation and is best avoided. The only time wort should be splashed is during the early part of the yeast's growth cycle.
> 
> ...



thanks manticle, i am going to keg it, probably will last a month , i have four kegs with different brews so wont thrash this one . just waiting for wort to come to boil for 1st addition.
fergi


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## manticle (6/2/11)

Otherwise known as recirculating or vorlaufing if you're after info on the whys and wherefores, humulus.


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## fergi (6/2/11)

i have noticed that my 0 min addition of 15 grms hops is for a secondry, i am not planning on secondary unless its a necessity, was thinking 10 days in fermenter then keg,. any opinions .sorry about all the short posts here.
fergi


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## humulus (6/2/11)

Crusty said:


> Hi Hum,
> 
> I mean after you collect your first runnings & your mashtun is fully drained, instead of for example, sparging with 14lts water, break that into two x 7 litre sparges. Heat up your first 7 litres to desired sparge temp, add to mashtun, stir for a bit, let it settle for about 5mins or so, collect & return to mashtun & when clear let it go to kettle. Repeat this for the second batch sparge. I started doing this after omitting a mashout in my brew steps & my efficiency is always 80%+.
> 
> ...


Cheers Crusty thanks for your info,got everything ready to wack down a ag brew tomorrow(gotta luv rdo's) let you guys know how it turns out!


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## humulus (6/2/11)

manticle said:


> Otherwise known as recirculating or vorlaufing if you're after info on the whys and wherefores, humulus.


Thanks manticle as i told crusty im puttin down about my 4th ag brew and any info i can get is great!!! Totally stoked on how my First AG Beers have turned out id just really like to "fine tune "my brewing so i suppose the will be a few more questions posted later on down the track,anyway off to the shed to pour a cool one!!!!!!


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## Crusty (6/2/11)

humulus said:


> Cheers Crusty thanks for your info,got everything ready to wack down a ag brew tomorrow(gotta luv rdo's) let you guys know how it turns out!




Give the double batch sparge a go, you should see higher efficiency. Let us know how you go.

fergi,
Fermentation is another topic that everyone has their own views on. Personally, I would do a secondary if you are going to keg the beer. Leave her in primary for 10-14 days, transfer to secondary & add your 0 hop additions. Leave it there for another 7 days & test your SG. Hopefully you will be somewhere around 1.012-1.011, what yeast are you going to use?
After the 3rd week, I would transfer to keg, add 100kpa, burp 2-3 times & chill overnight. The next morning I would filter ( if you have one ) from keg to keg. 100kpa again, burp again & set your reg @ 80kpa for 1 week. After the week reduce to serving pressure & have a taste. Gets better @ week 2 onwards.


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## fergi (6/2/11)

should i stir anytime during 60 min boil.
fergi


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## fergi (6/2/11)

looks like i have a slow simmer going nicely, should i be a bit more aggresive with the boil.
fergi


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## Crusty (6/2/11)

fergi said:


> should i stir anytime during 60 min boil.
> fergi




I do occasionally just to get antyhing off the sides from the rapid boil, hops debri etc.
Not something you have to do though, up to you.


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## fergi (6/2/11)

Crusty said:


> Give the double batch sparge a go, you should see higher efficiency. Let us know how you go.
> 
> fergi,
> Fermentation is another topic that everyone has their own views on. Personally, I would do a secondary if you are going to keg the beer. Leave her in primary for 10-14 days, transfer to secondary & add your 0 hop additions. Leave it there for another 7 days & test your SG. Hopefully you will be somewhere around 1.012-1.011, what yeast are you going to use?
> After the 3rd week, I would transfer to keg, add 100kpa, burp 2-3 times & chill overnight. The next morning I would filter ( if you have one ) from keg to keg. 100kpa again, burp again & set your reg @ 80kpa for 1 week. After the week reduce to serving pressure & have a taste. Gets better @ week 2 onwards.




yeast is US 05
fergi


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## Crusty (6/2/11)

fergi said:


> looks like i have a slow simmer going nicely, should i be a bit more aggresive with the boil.
> fergi




A nice rolling boil is supposed to be the optimum. I boil fairly agressively, 32 jet mongolian. I loose 6-8 litres during that hour though. I could probably back off a bit. Just keep it rolling mate.


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## np1962 (6/2/11)

fergi said:


> looks like i have a slow simmer going nicely, should i be a bit more aggresive with the boil.
> fergi


Boil should be done by now, but to answer this question, you need to boil hard enough to get 8 to 12% evaporation per hour.
From what you had said to me previously you were aiming for 15% which is more than what's necessary but with the kettles we use in homebrewing sometimes unavoidable.
If you boiled of 3-4 litres from your preboil then the vigour of your boil would of been fine.

I am one that will disagree with manticle with regards HSA and preboil splashing. You are going to boil for at least an hour so any oxygen that may have got into the runnings by a little splashing will be boiled out of the wort. 
After the boil is a different matter, don't splash the wort before it has dropped below 40C. So when you are filling your cube in no chilling run your hose from the kettle to the bottom of the cube to avoid any splashing.

Hope all has finished well.
Cheers
Nige


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## fergi (6/2/11)

ok guys its all finished,and cleaned up, now heres the rundown. i got 28 litres into my kettle from the mash, i cooled it down in the test tube and it came in at 140 on the hydrometer, 4.45 kg grain into the mash, i put 13 liter s @ 73 DEG into the mash and it settled to 66 deg , spot on, then after 1st runnings i put 10 liters @76 deg ,stirred and let sit for 5 mins, then i put another 10 liters @76 deg in and stirred, let sit for another 5 minutes.i got 28 liters into my boiler @140. after my 60 minute boil i got 21 liters into my cube with 2 liters of trub left in the boiler,thats 2 liters including a bit of wort, not sure how to work out efficiency ,i no chilled in a cube, sterilised the cube ,ran the boiling wort into the cube and filled it right to the top with hardly a bubble in it. now i guess i will leave it until tomorrow nite then run it into a fermenter and throw in the us05 yeast, set the fermenter fridge to 18 deg and wait,, now planning on waiting about 7/10 days then put into a secondry and throw in the other 15 grms of hops,leave it for a week then keg, how does this sound.


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## Fuggle (6/2/11)

sounds about right, wd


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## DUANNE (6/2/11)

manticle said:


> I disagree.
> 
> Fergi - splashing hot wort can lead to hot side aeration. Splashing fermenting wort while the yeast is in anerobic phase can also lead to oxidation and is best avoided. The only time wort should be splashed is during the early part of the yeast's growth cycle.
> 
> ...




hsa is a load of bullshit. according to charlie bamforth there is even one major us brewery that pumps o2 through theyre hot wort to achieve a cleaner beer. if your ferment is good enough ie pitching rate oxygenation and temp then it is not even worthy of mention.

http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/475.

i do agree however that using a piece of hose will give you piece of mind though.


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## manticle (6/2/11)

Going to have to do a test now. Somehow split a batch into two kettles, aerate the crap out of one and be gentle as a lamb with the other. Let both sit at least 12 months post ferment.

Maybe I can do away with my hoses.

Not sure it can be dismissed as bullshit - just needs more examination, testing etc.


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## Cocko (6/2/11)

An advantage of hose, depending on rig design, is you don't need to have your tun sitting right up over you kettle, so if you are using a burner you can fire it up after first runnings are in your kettle and start getting some heat into it without the risk of the heat damaging your tun. Obviously rig depending, mine is an advantage for the above and the bonus of, as beerhog said, piece of mind over the ever long battle of if HSA is an issue for HB'ers or not....

2c.

BTW: Good work Fergi!


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## fergi (6/2/11)

well now i would like to work out my efficiency,how do i work that out guys, anyone help me out here.
cheers fergi


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## jakub76 (6/2/11)

fergi said:


> well now i would like to work out my efficiency,how do i work that out guys, anyone help me out here.
> cheers fergi


Assuming 4.25kg Pale Malt and 200g Crystal, 21 litres into fermenter you've got 60% efficiency. Depending on yeast choice and attenuation you should expect around 4% abv...maybe a touch more if you're priming.

If you get yourself some brewing software you'll be able to work out efficiency, keep better records of your brews and be better able to design recipes. I use BrewPal on the iPhone though most use ProMash or BeerSmith.
Best

EDIT: Just found your recipe...66% efficiency. Not bad considering your manifold issues :beer:


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## np1962 (6/2/11)

jakub76 said:


> Assuming 4.25kg Pale Malt and 200g Crystal, 21 litres into fermenter you've got 60% efficiency. Depending on yeast choice and attenuation you should expect around 4% abv...maybe a touch more if you're priming.
> 
> If you get yourself some brewing software you'll be able to work out efficiency, keep better records of your brews and be better able to design recipes. I use BrewPal on the iPhone though most use ProMash or BeerSmith.
> Best


Really not sure how you come to this figure.
Fergi hasn't given a gravity reading post boil, only preboil. 
Using his preboil gravity and volume I would say he is much closer to something like 70-75%.
For a more accurate figure Fergi you will need to give us your grain bill and SG in the cube.
Cheers
Nige.

P.S. Good result mate by the sound of it, well done.


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## jakub76 (6/2/11)

NigeP62 said:


> Really not sure how you come to this figure.
> Fergi hasn't given a gravity reading post boil, only preboil.
> Using his preboil gravity and volume I would say he is much closer to something like 70-75%.
> For a more accurate figure Fergi you will need to give us your grain bill and SG in the cube.
> ...


Oh...I assumed it was a post boil gravity of 1.040 If it's preboil then I'm getting more like 85% on my software.
Grain bill is here... http://tinyurl.com/6klb9v6


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## fergi (6/2/11)

the gravity reading was pre boil out of mash tun, the wort is now in a cube,"no chill" so tomorrow nite i will take a gravity reading before i toss the yeast in.
fergi


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## sav (7/2/11)

Mate I have been brewing a while and I don't secondary ales ,I fermenting krausen dies down about 7to8 days dry hop leave for another 3 days depending on Fg Then crash and clear, I filter. So good job on your first AG, beer smith is a great program and it will do the work for you , get the free trial.

You said you will not smash this beer because you have others in kegs. This is your first AG beer It will blow before your others I bet you.

SAV


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## fergi (7/2/11)

sav said:


> Mate I have been brewing a while and I don't secondary ales ,I fermenting krausen dies down about 7to8 days dry hop leave for another 3 days depending on Fg Then crash and clear, I filter. So good job on your first AG, beer smith is a great program and it will do the work for you , get the free trial.
> 
> You said you will not smash this beer because you have others in kegs. This is your first AG beer It will blow before your others I bet you.
> 
> SAV



guess what Sav, i think you may be right. it was probably a stupid statement, if it turns out half nice i will probably be asking all my mates around just to show off.

fergi


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## fergi (7/2/11)

this maay be a strange question but as i have just done my first ag would it be wise to do my second one straight away , or do you think it wise to wait and see how my first one turns out in case i need to change something that i may have stuffed up in the first one.
fergi


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## Nick JD (7/2/11)

If you made sweet wort and then bittered it ... I'd do another if I were you.


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## Crusty (7/2/11)

fergi said:


> well now i would like to work out my efficiency,how do i work that out guys, anyone help me out here.
> cheers fergi




fergi,
I use brewhouse effiency & basically measure my temp corrected SG in fermenter & my volume. For example, if I collected 25lts into my fermenter @1.044, I have achieved 80% efficiency with my grain bill. Using Beer Tools Pro, I can go into my analysis page & say I enter 25lts @1.042, I will get a brewhouse efficiency of 76% & so on. A lot of guys on here use BeerSmith, which I have installed on my computer as well, but BTP is so much better. It's a little harder to get your head around setting it up for your brew day but once you work out how to drive it, it's awesome. I consistently hit my SG targets & volumes all the time. 

I think your first one was a cracker fergi,
To infinity & beyond, go for it.


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## bignath (7/2/11)

fergi said:


> this maay be a strange question but as i have just done my first ag would it be wise to do my second one straight away , or do you think it wise to wait and see how my first one turns out in case i need to change something that i may have stuffed up in the first one.
> fergi




If you had done an unknown recipe as your first AG then i would definitely wait until you can sample it - and for the reason you hinted to, "just in case"....

BUT, you didn't do that. You picked a VERY good recipe as your first AG, and then you (with the exeption of the manifold problem) had a textbook brew day. Everything according to your brewday run down seemed to go to plan, so if it was me, i be brewing like no tomorrow mate.

Go on, get another brew happening - you know you want to....... :icon_cheers: 

Cheers,

Nath


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## speedie (7/2/11)

Patients is a virtue 

If you feel that your first batch may have issues wait until it is in the glass and sample it

If it meets with your admiration brew again aspa

There is nothing more frustrating than bad beer 

Good brewing practice will all ways yield good results

speedie


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## Nick JD (8/2/11)

speedie said:


> Patients is a virtue



Patients in an STD waiting room are not virtuous.


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## beerdrinkingbob (8/2/11)

Nick JD said:


> Patients in an STD waiting room are not virtuous.



That's Gold!!

Fergi if you have a soda stream carb up a small amount and have a taste. If you don't I agree with most, do another  As someone else suggested use a known recipe from the DP if you can, even if you mess them up they will be balanced and taste awesome. I've done Tony's LCBA and it's great too. With those two Ag's under you belt you will never look back.


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## Hatchy (8/2/11)

Go again mate.


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## Lecterfan (8/2/11)

Hatchy said:


> Go again mate.




Yep. If the first one was good you will want another batch to drink as soon as the first batch is gone, and if the first batch is not good then you will be keen to try your next batch to see if it is better.

There is really no way out of it...


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## argon (8/2/11)

Lecterfan said:


> Yep. If the first one was good you will want another batch to drink as soon as the first batch is gone, and if the first batch is not good then you will be keen to try your next batch to see if it is better.
> 
> There is really no way out of it...


ad infinitum


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (8/2/11)

argon said:


> ad infinitum



I'd have to agree. The only reason (sorry for accidentally feeding the troll, though that other forum post is so funny!) I wouldn't is that sometimes, something that is wrong in your process can only be sorted and understood by drinking the beer afterwards.

If you can carbonate a stubby and drink cold, it would be ideal. I learn more about my beer and any mistakes I make, where I go wrong and and what ingredients work (probably not an issue, as you've used an existing, well documented recipe) and why - after I drink.

Having said that, no-one likes to run out of beer! And I have by doing the above, in times past.

Not trying to contradict anyone (or myself) - just presenting both sides of the argument.

As for programs, download qbrew or use beercalculus.hopville.com - they are both free.

Goomba


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## Nick JD (8/2/11)

I can't see anything in Fergi's process that would indicate anything other than supurb beer.

My process is way, waaay more foolhardy and if I do say so myself - my beers are exemplary as to how using _grain _and _hops _makes nice beer not obsessively focusing on the details.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (8/2/11)

Nick JD said:


> I can't see anything in Fergi's process that would indicate anything other than supurb beer.
> 
> My process is way, waaay more foolhardy and if I do say so myself - my beers are exemplary as to how using _grain _and _hops _makes nice beer not obsessively focusing on the details.



I'm with you - I don't pay that much attention to the details. most of the time I end up with great beer, but every so often, I end up with a clanger that occurs because I've been too lazy. And I don't find out until the beer is in my glass after work and I'm wondering what the hell I've done.

The first time it happened (well actually it happened on two consecutive beers), I stopped all production, went back to what I did wrong, altered my process a little and came up with the solution.

Given I started with your $20 on the stovetop procedure and then went on from there - I will be corrected by you at any given time with great humility. 

My process is now akin to BIABAMIAE (BIAB after Mash in an Esky) - my voile is now a great filter inside a colander where I drain from esky (cheap as chips) into my 2 big w pots. Given I bastardised your procedure, I needed to iron out the kinks in its illegitimate offspring.

Fergi - listen to nick - this is his baby.

Goomba


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## manticle (8/2/11)

NigeP62 said:


> Boil should be done by now, but to answer this question, you need to boil hard enough to get 8 to 12% evaporation per hour.
> From what you had said to me previously you were aiming for 15% which is more than what's necessary but with the kettles we use in homebrewing sometimes unavoidable.
> If you boiled of 3-4 litres from your preboil then the vigour of your boil would of been fine.
> 
> ...



I'm not sure which way to lean. I've read a bit which states splashing during mashing and sparging is particularly bad and will actually cause exponentially larger oxidative reactions when boiling. Dissolved oxygen is not (as far as I understand) the problem - it's reactions created by oxidation which the boil doesn't drive off.

I'm not claiming to know - just interested in what I've been reading on the issue.

From BYO


> *The Hot Zone
> *Hot-side aeration describes the pick-up of air during the hot stages of the brewing process. However, it is really only a concern during the mash and sparging stages. During the mash and sparge, there are certain enzymes present in the malt that, when in the presence of oxygen, can combine with malt compounds and form the flavor and aroma compounds that we perceive as oxidation. Therefore, taking care not to splash the wort too much during mashing, sparging, and runoff into the kettle will help you avoid these flavor and aroma compounds. As soon as you begin the boil, the enzymes will be destroyed, and the risk of oxidation at this point is then eliminated. So dont worry about stirring and splashing during the boil. Boiling will drive any remaining oxygen out of the wort, and many large commercial breweries actually aerate the wort during or immediately after boiling to help precipitate tannins and to strip unwanted volatile gasses from the wort. But remember, because boiling strips the wort of oxygen, it is even more important to aerate the wort when you pitch the yeast.


 (from this page: http://www.byo.com/stories/techniques/arti...ng-the-air-wars )

Small discussion on another forum: http://www.brewingkb.com/homebrewing/hot-s...ation-2323.html

Trying to download the brewing network podcast with Bamforth at the moment.

Sorry to take it so far off topic fergi. Yes brew again soon, especially if you think you have a handle on the process.


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## Nick JD (9/2/11)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Fergi - listen to nick - this is his baby.



It's not actually. I stood on the shoulders of greats. 

I'm the publicist, not the inventor.


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## fergi (9/2/11)

well i have put my first ag into the fermenter last nite after cooling it in a cube,i measured OG at 1048 @ 18 deg wort temp. how do i work out my efficiency ,i have a trial version of beersmith, grain bill was 4.4kg.

cheers fergi


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## np1962 (9/2/11)

fergi said:


> well i have put my first ag into the fermenter last nite after cooling it in a cube,i measured OG at 1048 @ 18 deg wort temp. how do i work out my efficiency ,i have a trial version of beersmith, grain bill was 4.4kg.
> 
> cheers fergi


Quick calcs on my iPhone using Brewpal gives an efficiency into the fermenter of 75percent.
Well done, looks like everything went well.
Not going to try explain beersmith on the phone  
Beersmith website has tutorials.
Cheers
Nige


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## argon (9/2/11)

fergi said:


> well i have put my first ag into the fermenter last nite after cooling it in a cube,i measured OG at 1048 @ 18 deg wort temp. how do i work out my efficiency ,i have a trial version of beersmith, grain bill was 4.4kg.
> 
> cheers fergi



Click on New recipe button; this will go to a new view
Add all your info including volumes, grains hops etc
then click on the Brewhouse efficiency button to open the efficiency detail box
Then in each box add your relevant info that you measured on your brew day
This will give you your efficiency.


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## fergi (10/2/11)

argon said:


> Click on New recipe button; this will go to a new view
> Add all your info including volumes, grains hops etc
> then click on the Brewhouse efficiency button to open the efficiency detail box
> Then in each box add your relevant info that you measured on your brew day
> This will give you your efficiency.



thanks, i did that comes out at 76%, i am happy with that considering the blooper with my manifold.
cheers fergi


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## fergi (10/2/11)

my first ag is working away in my fermenting fridge, us 05 yeast, i have it set on 18 deg, does this temp give the best results for smurtos golden ale.
fergi


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## sav (10/2/11)

fergi said:


> my first ag is working away in my fermenting fridge, us 05 yeast, i have it set on 18 deg, does this temp give the best results for smurtos golden ale.
> fergi




18deg is fine mate just forget its there and leave the door closed
sav


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## fergi (12/2/11)

after completing my first ag last week i am now wondering if its easy to do double batches, problem is i only have a 40 litre boiler, i gather i can do a high gravity boil then top up the 60 liter fermenter with xtra water,my mash tun is probably only a 30 liter onei suppose this would be over come by adding more grain then sparging enough through it to get the required volume to boil.
cheers fergi


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## Crusty (13/2/11)

fergi said:


> after completing my first ag last week i am now wondering if its easy to do double batches, problem is i only have a 40 litre boiler, i gather i can do a high gravity boil then top up the 60 liter fermenter with xtra water,my mash tun is probably only a 30 liter onei suppose this would be over come by adding more grain then sparging enough through it to get the required volume to boil.
> cheers fergi




Congrats on the first AG fergi, well done. I have the capacity to do double batches but making a double batch would mean I would be brewing less often. I really enjoy the brewday to the extent that single batches mean I have to brew more often which suits me better. Just keep in mind too that if you manage to stuff up on the day, it's gunna hurt more, two fold. Single batches are also a great way to test run a recipe & when you feel confident you have your process honed in by all means do a double batch.
I bet you can't wait to taste that liquid gold. :beerbang:


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## fergi (13/2/11)

Crusty said:


> Congrats on the first AG fergi, well done. I have the capacity to do double batches but making a double batch would mean I would be brewing less often. I really enjoy the brewday to the extent that single batches mean I have to brew more often which suits me better. Just keep in mind too that if you manage to stuff up on the day, it's gunna hurt more, two fold. Single batches are also a great way to test run a recipe & when you feel confident you have your process honed in by all means do a double batch.
> I bet you can't wait to taste that liquid gold. :beerbang:




cant wait, your spot on crusty, keep going out to fermenter fridge and trying to sniff the aroma,going to give it 10 days in fermenter then transfer to a cube with final additions for 5 days.drop the temp down to 2 deg for another 2 days to chill and then keg.
fergi


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## humulus (13/2/11)

fergi said:


> cant wait, your spot on crusty, keep going out to fermenter fridge and trying to sniff the aroma,going to give it 10 days in fermenter then transfer to a cube with final additions for 5 days.drop the temp down to 2 deg for another 2 days to chill and then keg.
> fergi


You gotta let us know how it tastes fergie!!!! it will be tops,im pretty new to AG but every one ive done has tasted great so i reckon!!!
Would be great to get a few from this forum to taste and give an honest opinion!!!!!!
Putting down an American Steam beer on Tues!!!!! cant wait!!
congrads on your first!


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## fergi (13/2/11)

humulus said:


> You gotta let us know how it tastes fergie!!!! it will be tops,im pretty new to AG but every one ive done has tasted great so i reckon!!!
> Would be great to get a few from this forum to taste and give an honest opinion!!!!!!
> Putting down an American Steam beer on Tues!!!!! cant wait!!
> congrads on your first!





i certainly will get back on what i really think, i was one of those people that always stuck up for my kit brews when people were saying they were crap, get into AG, well i still say that the kit brews i make are nice, but i have tasted a couple of AG brews and they were a cut above my kits, but i now have to be able to make a descent AG brew or its a waste of time, i think the smurtos golden ale i have chosen is a pretty easy starter brew it will be good to compare it with my kit james squire ale, which is one of my best kits,it will be very interesting when the taste time comes, cant wait.

fergi


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## Crusty (15/2/11)

fergi said:


> i certainly will get back on what i really think, i was one of those people that always stuck up for my kit brews when people were saying they were crap, get into AG, well i still say that the kit brews i make are nice, but i have tasted a couple of AG brews and they were a cut above my kits, but i now have to be able to make a descent AG brew or its a waste of time, i think the smurtos golden ale i have chosen is a pretty easy starter brew it will be good to compare it with my kit james squire ale, which is one of my best kits,it will be very interesting when the taste time comes, cant wait.
> 
> fergi




I'm willing to bet your kit brewing days are over my friend. :beerbang:


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## fergi (15/2/11)

Crusty said:


> I'm willing to bet your kit brewing days are over my friend. :beerbang:



i hope you are correct crusty, actually this has nothing to do with this topic but your user name, i started playing golf about 5 years ago at my local club, the very first game i played they put me with this old guy because he has a lot of patience,well for the whole game i tried being friendly and chaty, i called him by his name all the time to be respectful, i called him Crusty probably 50 times that day, he was a pleasure to play a round of golf with, very helpful, when i went back to the club my mate said who did they pair you up with for your game, i said i played with Crusty, mate says no one here by that name, sure there is i said, that old guy over there, his name isnt crusty you idiot its Salty, the old guy didnt miss a beat all day, dont know know if he was just very polite or just deaf.
cheers fergi


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## Crusty (16/2/11)

fergi said:


> i hope you are correct crusty, actually this has nothing to do with this topic but your user name, i started playing golf about 5 years ago at my local club, the very first game i played they put me with this old guy because he has a lot of patience,well for the whole game i tried being friendly and chaty, i called him by his name all the time to be respectful, i called him Crusty probably 50 times that day, he was a pleasure to play a round of golf with, very helpful, when i went back to the club my mate said who did they pair you up with for your game, i said i played with Crusty, mate says no one here by that name, sure there is i said, that old guy over there, his name isnt crusty you idiot its Salty, the old guy didnt miss a beat all day, dont know know if he was just very polite or just deaf.
> cheers fergi




Thanks mate,
What was that :lol:


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## fergi (16/2/11)

well guys i have done a gravity check, after 8 days its showing 1008 down from 1048, now the funny thing is when i poured the test tube to test the gravity it was like pouring a beer into a glass, it had lots of foam and was actually showing small bubbles ,lots of them like you get in your beer,this went on for at least 5 mins or more with carbonation still quite evident coming from the bottom of the test tube.good inch of head in the tube and still carbonation, after 10 mins it settled down although still had a few tiny bubbles still coming up. do you think this is ready to go into secondry as its 1008 or do i give it a few more days, also what is the xtra 15 rms of hops into secondry going to do,tasting the test tube it doesnt seem like it needs more flavour,if the hops go in do i just chuck them in dry,or soak them first.
cheers fergi


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## cdbrown (16/2/11)

Your brew sounds like it's finished pretty dry at 1.008, good attenuation. Most of my dry hopping occurs after a few days of fermenting, I've never actually dry hopped after ferment has finished - probably due to not wanting to wait longer than I have to.

If you think the brew doesn't need any more fresh hop flavour then don't bother with the dry hop. Remember the flavour does decrease over time, so sometimes the dry hop provides a nice fresh hop edge. If dry hopping, you just open the fermenter and chuck in the pellets. Leave it for a few days taking a sample here and there until you are happy that the level of fresh hop flavour and any increase in perceived bitterness is what you want. Then chill and wait a few days before kegging. If not dry hopping, start chilling the brew now.

Any particular reason why you want to go to secondary? It's not exactly necessary.


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## fergi (16/2/11)

cdbrown said:


> Your brew sounds like it's finished pretty dry at 1.008, good attenuation. Most of my dry hopping occurs after a few days of fermenting, I've never actually dry hopped after ferment has finished - probably due to not wanting to wait longer than I have to.
> 
> If you think the brew doesn't need any more fresh hop flavour then don't bother with the dry hop. Remember the flavour does decrease over time, so sometimes the dry hop provides a nice fresh hop edge. If dry hopping, you just open the fermenter and chuck in the pellets. Leave it for a few days taking a sample here and there until you are happy that the level of fresh hop flavour and any increase in perceived bitterness is what you want. Then chill and wait a few days before kegging. If not dry hopping, start chilling the brew now.
> 
> Any particular reason why you want to go to secondary? It's not exactly necessary.



hi CD, well i think the recipe states 15gm hops at 0 mins which i think from memory it says to put into secondry. trying to stick to my first AG recipe to the instructions.
fergi


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## Crusty (16/2/11)

fergi said:


> hi CD, well i think the recipe states 15gm hops at 0 mins which i think from memory it says to put into secondry. trying to stick to my first AG recipe to the instructions.
> fergi




Whoa mate, great attenuation from 1.048 to 1.008. Be careful with that beer being the quaffer it is, 5.2% is a bit bigger than what you probably aimed for.
I would rack to secondary now & toss in the hop pellets just loose & leave it in secondary for what the recipe states. I would probably leave them soak for a full week then move on to your chilling & kegging procedure. Nice work mate.


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## fergi (16/2/11)

Crusty said:


> Whoa mate, great attenuation from 1.048 to 1.008. Be careful with that beer being the quaffer it is, 5.2% is a bit bigger than what you probably aimed for.
> I would rack to secondary now & toss in the hop pellets just loose & leave it in secondary for what the recipe states. I would probably leave them soak for a full week then move on to your chilling & kegging procedure. Nice work mate.



ok thanks crusty,i will move it into secondry and drop the hops in, what am i trying to get with the secondry hop addition, aroma only, doesnt seem like it needs any more flavour but that might be a premature observation.
fergi.


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## Crusty (16/2/11)

fergi said:


> ok thanks crusty,i will move it into secondry and drop the hops in, what am i trying to get with the secondry hop addition, aroma only, doesnt seem like it needs any more flavour but that might be a premature observation.
> fergi.




You'll be quite surprised how everything blends together after you have it kegged for a couple of weeks. The sample you are tasting, although pleasant at this point in time, will come together in the next few weeks & I think you are going to be really pleased with your hard work. :beerbang:


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## np1962 (16/2/11)

Sounds like you've done well Fergi.
The dry hopping will give mostly aroma, although you will get some flavour from dry hops as you are using the same hop you used in the boil it will hardly be noticible.
To get more out of your dry hopping you can put them in a bowl and pour boiling water onto them, just enough to cover. This will release some of the volatile acids and increase the aroma, just tip the whole lot in after about 5 minutes.
After 3 or 4 days chill to drop yeast and keg or bottle.(provided the gravity has been stable)
Cheers
Nige


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## fergi (24/2/11)

well i have finally kegged my first AG beer, its going to be so hard not trying it for a couple of weeks,when i walk past my shed i can hear it calling out to me, but NO i will not give in,i will wait 2 weeks,"i will", now a question or two again, fermented 8 days, then put it into secondry for 4 days , then into fridge at 2 deg for 3 days,then kegged, now when i kegged it i thought it was a bit hazy still,like a coopers pale ale,when i transfered into the keg i noticed about 1/4 inch of trub on the bottom of the secondry, is this normal for ag, should it have gone into my keg looking a lot clearer,not overly concerned as when i put it into my keg i tested the FG which was 1010, this was 1008 when i put it into secondry so it actually went up 2 points but i would imagine this was because it came out of secondry at 2 deg,anyway the sample from the test tube that i tried tasted really nice, cant wait for it to clear and gas up.
fergi


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## Crusty (24/2/11)

This will undoubtedly be the longest 2 weeks of your life. I used to filter mine so I can't comment on the clarity but maybe still some yeast in suspension if you moved the keg around a bit. Perfectly normal to have a little yeast slurry in the secondary fermenter. If you are storing the kegs @ 2deg, I would set your reg @ 69kpa, this will give you 2.5vol/co2 for a full 7 days. After 7 days, reduce to serving pressure & pour a glass. You may get a cloudy beer for your first one but from then on you should have nice bright beers. Pour another & have a really close look & decide if carbonation is to your liking & if it is, leave it @ serving pressure for your second week if you trust you have no system leaks. I always left my gas on, others may turn theirs off. Keep in mind when you are drinking that second beer that it is still fairly green & it will be different from the beer you will pour @ week 2. 
Let us know how you go mate,
cheers


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## fergi (24/2/11)

Crusty said:


> This will undoubtedly be the longest 2 weeks of your life. I used to filter mine so I can't comment on the clarity but maybe still some yeast in suspension if you moved the keg around a bit. Perfectly normal to have a little yeast slurry in the secondary fermenter. If you are storing the kegs @ 2deg, I would set your reg @ 69kpa, this will give you 2.5vol/co2 for a full 7 days. After 7 days, reduce to serving pressure & pour a glass. You may get a cloudy beer for your first one but from then on you should have nice bright beers. Pour another & have a really close look & decide if carbonation is to your liking & if it is, leave it @ serving pressure for your second week if you trust you have no system leaks. I always left my gas on, others may turn theirs off. Keep in mind when you are drinking that second beer that it is still fairly green & it will be different from the beer you will pour @ week 2.
> Let us know how you go mate,
> cheers



yey hi crusty, i went outside to the shed 5 mins ago and i can still hear the beer calling my name,bugger you are right 2 weeks is a long way off,
maybe i will just have a small drop, no just kidding, i will go and have a K&K beer, i really want to wait the 2 weeks because i genuinely want to give an honest unbiased opinion of AG v my K&K,









fergi


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## fergi (24/2/11)

Crusty said:


> This will undoubtedly be the longest 2 weeks of your life.
> 
> 
> > I used to filter mine so I can't comment on the clarity
> ...






do you still filter your ag crusty, what system do you use.
fergi


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## mxd (24/2/11)

what's this waiting shit ? You have kegs and it's your first, either do a ross method or pump the gas upto 350 kpa for 24 hrs, then drink tomorrow night 

The stuff in secondary will be the yeast dropping form the crash chill, you haven't filtered so it will be a bit hazy for a few days then should clear up.

well done, brew and ferment again as kegs seem to "leak"


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## fergi (24/2/11)

mxd said:


> what's this waiting shit ? You have kegs and it's your first, either do a ross method or pump the gas upto 350 kpa for 24 hrs, then drink tomorrow night
> 
> The stuff in secondary will be the yeast dropping form the crash chill, you haven't filtered so it will be a bit hazy for a few days then should clear up.
> 
> well done, brew and ferment again as kegs seem to "leak"




DONT PROMPT ME TO TRY IT YET "i am weak"


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## np1962 (24/2/11)

As soon as the beer is kegged and gassed, 30 minutes or so, you can drink it. :icon_cheers: 
Will it be better in two weeks? Maybe, but how will you know if you don't know what it tastes like now?
Get into it!
Cheers
Nige


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## Crusty (24/2/11)

Don't listen to anyone recommending that you force carb @ higher kpa for less time ( no offence fellas )
You run the risk of overcarbing it mate & if you do that, as I have, it's a bastard to fix & you"ll be really pissed off with yourself & you'll swear you won't do it again.
There is a marked difference in the beer from week 1 & week 2, try it for yourself, you will notice the difference. Drinking it within 24hrs just doesn't cut it for me, & just because it's gassed up, it certainly doesn't mean it's ready to drink. WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. You will be tasting it after the first week so that's not far away & after week 2, you'll be pattin yourself on the back & reminding yourself that you made it.
Give Ross @ Craftbrewer a call & get one of his filtering setups. They are good for clearing the beer that's for sure but I feel the absolute 1 micron filter may be the suspect for stripping out a bit of hop aroma & a little head retention, just something I have noticed against not filtering.

Filter


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## np1962 (24/2/11)

Crusty said:


> Don't listen to anyone recommending that you force carb @ higher kpa for less time ( no offence fellas )
> You run the risk of overcarbing it mate & if you do that, as I have, it's a bastard to fix & you"ll be really pissed off with yourself & you'll swear you won't do it again.


Agreed, but no harm in the Butters slipper method.
Connect gas to keg at serving pressure, lay on floorwith gas post down, roll back and forth with foot. Will take about 15-20 minutes of this. Remember keg is cold hence the recommendation you wear slippers :icon_cheers: 
As the gas is at serving pressure there is no chance of overcarbing.

Nige

Edit.- Added time.


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## Crusty (24/2/11)

NigeP62 said:


> Agreed, but no harm in the Butters slipper method.
> Connect gas to keg at serving pressure, lay on floorwith gas post down, roll back and forth with foot. Will take about 15-20 minutes of this. Remember keg is cold hence the recommendation you wear slippers :icon_cheers:
> As the gas is at serving pressure there is no chance of overcarbing.
> 
> ...



Definitely the safer method for avoiding over carbonating but it's not ready at this stage. 
The reason I never force carb @ higher kpa is the beer @ this age has not had any time to mellow / condition. Week 2 was definitely the target for my beers.
It's kinda comparable to drinking bottle conditioned beers @ week 4 against week 8. Mediocre @ week 4, superb @ week 8.
STAY AWAY FROM THE SHED FERGI.


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## fergi (26/2/11)

bugger, its only been 3 days now, something must be wrong ,surely its been 2 weeks by now,???maybe my batteries are going flat so i am running slower

fergi


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## drew9242 (26/2/11)

Just go and have a pint fergi. If it is good, well keep drinking. Then you can do some more batchs and get your stocks up. I wouldn't have a hope in hell waiting if i was in your position.


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## bunney boy (28/2/11)

drink as much of your k&k as you can before you start on the all grain keg
i hooked into my first all grain keg and after 8 months i am still trying to get through my k&b bottle stash
i thought it tasted great untill i tried all grain and now my brewing spirled out of control.


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## Ross (28/2/11)

I'm sorry, but waiting 2 weeks before drinking a Golden Ale is just silly.
Beers like the Golden ales are meant to be drunk fresh & if it was my first AG the keg would probably be nearly dry by now.
If the beers unfiltered, then a few days to help clarify is probably a good thing, but after that get into it.

If your standard ales don't taste right for weeks/months, then take a look at your recipe formulation or brewing practises.

Cheers Ross


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## sav (28/2/11)

I am with rossco you brewed your beer before me and I am loving mine get into it mate.

sav


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## fergi (28/2/11)

ok i cant wait much longer,wednesday nite i am going to give it the taste test ,this will be one week which will have given it time to clear a bit and also carb up in keg,so wednesday nite after work i am cooking my BBQ and i am going to pour my first AG.i will let you all know what i think of ag compared to my kits,i will be really honest and unbiased in my assesment. 

fergi


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## drsmurto (28/2/11)

I haven't read all of this thread but here's my thoughts Fergis.

The recipe states 2 weeks in primary and 2 weeks cold conditioning.

If that's what you have done then 30 mins after you keg it start drinking it.

To be honest, 1 week conditioning is probably sufficient.

Get stuck in! :chug:


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## DazzaD (1/3/11)

DrSmurto said:


> I haven't read all of this thread but here's my thoughts Fergis.
> 
> The recipe states 2 weeks in primary and 2 weeks cold conditioning.
> 
> ...


I am new to AHB only joining last night (wish I had long before now) and have enjoyed reading the progress and advise you have received along the way, it will help me as I move from K&K and partial's to more AG brewing.

You and I are a lot a like when it comes to the urge to sample the latest creation. With my first AG using some primitave equipment and limited knowledge I was like a kid in a candy shop and just had to try it early my first impression was I had stuffed it up, I had used amarilo hops for the first time it seemed thats all I could taste. I left it for a few more weeks and knocked off all the K&K kegs I had then started on the AG. Well what a difference that made the hop flovours had mellowed and my mates are still talking about it.

Cant wait to hear more.


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## mje1980 (1/3/11)

Ross said:


> I'm sorry, but waiting 2 weeks before drinking a Golden Ale is just silly.
> Beers like the Golden ales are meant to be drunk fresh & if it was my first AG the keg would probably be nearly dry by now.
> If the beers unfiltered, then a few days to help clarify is probably a good thing, but after that get into it.
> 
> ...




Amen !!

Drink it now !!


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## fergi (1/3/11)

ok thats it then i cant wait until tomorrow i am going out to the shed hook one of my taps up to my first AG ,smurtos golden ale, back in 10 minutes, cant wait.
fergi


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## Aus_Rider_22 (1/3/11)

Watching response. ^_^


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## fergi (1/3/11)

WELL ITS BLOODY FANTASTICCCCCCCCCCCC. cant believe how good it tastes, you know that first mouthful of any beer you make always seems to taste good until the after taste kicks in,well this is beyond my expectations,i am so happy with this beer, not very good at describing flavours so i wont really try, but it has nice fine bubbles after 6 days in the keg, color is like a coopers pale ale with that hazy look at the moment, i gather that will clear as a few more days pass, flavor well i can taste the distinct amarillo hops which is a very pleasant subdued taste on the pallet, what i am noticing is the freshness of this beer, there are no unwanted after tastes, second glass drinking now and its like drinking a tasty meal,cant stop drinking it, have to say thanks for the recipe dr smurto this ones a winner.i have always said my kits that i make are nice beers, well they dont hold a candle to the freshness and smooth after taste of this first AG. i am so glad i have now started the journey.this is a really great beer to get started on, if all my ag beers are this good i will be more than pleased, thanks for all the advice to the guys on this thread too that gave me advice along the way.
cheers fergi


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## np1962 (1/3/11)

Well done Fergi, onwards and upwards mate, no going back! :icon_chickcheers: 
The first one or two out of the keg will likely have some yeast in them, will clear up as you go.
Nige


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## Crusty (1/3/11)

fergi said:


> WELL ITS BLOODY FANTASTICCCCCCCCCCCC. cant believe how good it tastes, you know that first mouthful of any beer you make always seems to taste good until the after taste kicks in,well this is beyond my expectations,i am so happy with this beer, not very good at describing flavours so i wont really try, but it has nice fine bubbles after 6 days in the keg, color is like a coopers pale ale with that hazy look at the moment, i gather that will clear as a few more days pass, flavor well i can taste the distinct amarillo hops which is a very pleasant subdued taste on the pallet, what i am noticing is the freshness of this beer, there are no unwanted after tastes, second glass drinking now and its like drinking a tasty meal,cant stop drinking it, have to say thanks for the recipe dr smurto this ones a winner.i have always said my kits that i make are nice beers, well they dont hold a candle to the freshness and smooth after taste of this first AG. i am so glad i have now started the journey.this is a really great beer to get started on, if all my ag beers are this good i will be more than pleased, thanks for all the advice to the guys on this thread too that gave me advice along the way.
> cheers fergi



By your description of your process fergi, I knew this was going to be a cracker & you would be really pleased. I still firmly believe that after 2 full weeks in the keg, you will have a better beer than you have now. Please update us with the sample from week 2 & your honest thoughts compared to what you are drinking now.
I assume the K&K days are a thing of the past, there really is no comparison against an AG & you certainly described the freshness taste, it's almost Organic like.
Week 2 will see your beer bright, mellowed & dangerously quaffable. You better make plans for your second one mate as you will be surprised just how quick you can empty a keg. Be extra careful of your mates that enjoyed your K&K cause if they get wind of this brew fella they'll never leave you alone. On my brewdays, I started off with 1 neighbour helping me brew ( drink my beer whilst I brewed ) & that's grown to 3 neighbours now. They're like bloody flies onto a bit of meat.

Cheers fella. :beerbang:


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## jyo (1/3/11)

Nice work, mate. No turning back now :icon_chickcheers:


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## Nick JD (1/3/11)

Make another Kit beer now. 

Go on. I dare ya. :icon_cheers:


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## Nevalicious (2/3/11)

Nick JD said:


> Make another Kit beer now.
> 
> Go on. I dare ya. :icon_cheers:



Somewhat :icon_offtopic: and apologies Fergi but...

Its funny... About a week or so ago, I did just that... I only brew AG now but threw a bastard toucan down the other day with two FARMLAND :unsure: draught cans (which I recently bought at the Coles Super Sellout of Homebrew (which I originally bought as cheap starter goop)) and a small boil with 2g/L of Centennial (bulk buy hops... so cheap as!) at 5 mins, dry hopped after a week with another 2g/L centennial... Onto US05 yeast slurry (god I'm looking like a right tigharse now). Have to say, its no AG, but its bloody nice... Currently CC'ing before bottling for a lads weekend. At $4.50 a slab, who's complaining right?? :beerbang: 

So yeah, its gonna be a rare occasion from here on in (k&k etc) but, proof is in the pudding... Have enough hops to mask the shite-ness of kits (especially poo ones!!) and you end up with something decent

Nev


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## fergi (2/3/11)

Nick JD said:


> Make another Kit beer now.
> 
> Go on. I dare ya. :icon_cheers:




made one a couple of nites ago nick :icon_drool2: had a coopers pale ale can left so threw in 500 ldme,250 dextrose,boiled the ldme and dextrose in 3 litres water with 10 grms POR, and 30 grms amarillo,10 minutes, coopers recultured yeast,keg filler for golf club mates that drop by.
fergi


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## fergi (2/3/11)

its me again, on 3rd AG beer, usually only have 2 or 3 schooners at most after work but i am drinking pints,great stuff this AG beer ,you guys should try it,anyway a question, i have uploaded a webcam photo of my first ag and i am wondering will it go really clear after a while or is it caused by my process, i dont care if it doesnt really clear because its just great anyway but i assume its supposed to be clear and bright,the photo is a bit glary due to crappy web cam .
fergi


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## np1962 (2/3/11)

Given enough time most beers will clear.
I don't think there was much wrong with your process from what I've read of it.
Does the beer clear as it warms? Chill haze? Yeast or protein haze? These will all improve with time in the keg.
There are ways to help it along, longer CC time, Polyclar and Gelatine can be used before kegging as well as filtering if you really want a crystal clear beer.
But as you said, it's a drinking beer not a comp beer and it tastes great, who cares about a little clarity issue.
Cheers
Nige


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## fergi (9/3/11)

well the unbelievable has happened to my first fantastic tasting ag beer, its"INFECTED", i cant believe it has happened, this is my first infection in probably 4 years. dont know where it has happened i have been thinking about my process and the only thing i have done different from my kits is the no chill, i presume that anything that happens before the boil is probably not an issue,that is the mash process and running through the sparge water, i would think once it boils for hop additions thats where we start the sanitiser problems,i had a slight problem with my mash when the manifold came apart during the second batch sparge so i doubt that would cause a problem,the wort went into the pot ,started heating it and after about 15 mins it started to boil, in went the hops and then at 15 mins another hop addition,5 mins and whirlflok went in,i then stirred to create a whirlpool effect and after 5 mins i ran the wort into a sterilised cube,only a few bubbles left in the cube and i turned it over and around to sanitise it again,left it outside over nite then in the morning i put it into my fermenter fridge @18 deg fermented for 8 days then put 15 grms hops into a sanitise bowl, poured about 2 cups boiling water in and covered with gladwrap for 10 mins, then put wort from fermenter into another cube and poured in the hop brew,put lid on and left for 3 days,then poured into a keg. cant really see any glaring problems but i am stumped and dissapointed this has happened,i guess i will be asked what the off flavor is but i am not good at describing different flavors, maybe slight bitter flavor with a light tingling on the tongue and lip after about 5 10 mins from drinking,also all those great flavors that it originally had have been masked by the new taste taking over.
i have my second ag now fermenting in the fermenting fridge, 3 days in to ferment, all the same moves as the first one, just have to sit and see what happens to this one, i have ingredients to do another smurtos GA ,same as the infected one but i will have to wait and see,maybe it was the hop additions into secondry,.
fergi


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## jakub76 (9/3/11)

fergi said:


> then put wort from fermenter into another cube and poured in the hop brew,put lid on and left for 3 days,then poured into a keg. cant really see any glaring problems
> fergi



The transfer to secondary is opening yourself up to possible infection and aeration, it is unecessary. When I dry hop I just throw pellets straight into the fermenter and put the lild/cling-wrap back on - spraying iodophore around a fair bit as I go. I usually leave the dry hops on for 3-4 days. If you're looking to harvest your yeast then use a sanitized hop bag or piece or voile to wrap your hops in so it's easy to remove later.

Edit: spllling


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## Nick JD (9/3/11)

fergi said:


> well the unbelievable has happened to my first fantastic tasting ag beer, its"INFECTED", i cant believe it has happened, this is my first infection in probably 4 years. dont know where it has happened i have been thinking about my process and the only thing i have done different from my kits is the no chill, i presume that anything that happens before the boil is probably not an issue,that is the mash process and running through the sparge water, i would think once it boils for hop additions thats where we start the sanitiser problems,i had a slight problem with my mash when the manifold came apart during the second batch sparge so i doubt that would cause a problem,the wort went into the pot ,started heating it and after about 15 mins it started to boil, in went the hops and then at 15 mins another hop addition,5 mins and whirlflok went in,i then stirred to create a whirlpool effect and after 5 mins i ran the wort into a sterilised cube,only a few bubbles left in the cube and i turned it over and around to sanitise it again,left it outside over nite then in the morning i put it into my fermenter fridge @18 deg fermented for 8 days then put 15 grms hops into a sanitise bowl, poured about 2 cups boiling water in and covered with gladwrap for 10 mins, then put wort from fermenter into another cube and poured in the hop brew,put lid on and left for 3 days,then poured into a keg. cant really see any glaring problems but i am stumped and dissapointed this has happened,i guess i will be asked what the off flavor is but i am not good at describing different flavors, maybe slight bitter flavor with a light tingling on the tongue and lip after about 5 10 mins from drinking,also all those great flavors that it originally had have been masked by the new taste taking over.
> i have my second ag now fermenting in the fermenting fridge, 3 days in to ferment, all the same moves as the first one, just have to sit and see what happens to this one, i have ingredients to do another smurtos GA ,same as the infected one but i will have to wait and see,maybe it was the hop additions into secondry,.
> fergi



Paragraphs, Fergi. I stopped reading.


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## Crusty (9/3/11)

fergi,
That really sucks mate. I kinda agree with jakub about secondary being a possible point for an infection to occur but I usually transfer to secondary, toss in my loose hops & have never ever had an infection. You could possibly omit the secondary step & maybe leave it all alone for 2 weeks & toss in your loose hops after that & leave them for another week. 3 weeks total should be more than enough time for fermentation to have ceased & the brew should be as clear as a bell.
I have never no chilled & there's quite a lot of more experienced brewers on here than me that swear by it but I just don't like the concept of it. We go to great lengths to use stainless, brass or aluminum in our brewing equipment & it kinda puzzles me why you would siphon almost boiling wort into a plastic cube, I realize it's food grade but avoiding plastic for me in the brewery is paramount. I do use a plastic fermenter but no wort goes in there over 20deg or so. I read a lot of posts recommending it & the convenience of it all but either your hot steep hop addition or your no chill cube would be the culprit I reckon. I'm only guessing of course but from everything else you described on brewday, I can't see anything else that would have caused it.
Ditch this one & go again. Hope you avoid any such dramas with the second one. :beerbang:


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## Hatchy (9/3/11)

Has anyone else tried it? Most of my beers taste different to me after a while in the keg or bottle. Is it a terrible make you never want to drink beer again taste or a taste that's slightly different to yesterday?


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## fergi (10/3/11)

Hatchy said:


> Has anyone else tried it? Most of my beers taste different to me after a while in the keg or bottle. Is it a terrible make you never want to drink beer again taste or a taste that's slightly different to yesterday?




no it hasnt reached the cant stand to drink it stage,but it is lacking that explosion of fresh flavours the first couple of days i tried it.
i am still drinking it but dissapointed with the result now compared to what it was a week ago.
sort of can twang like a kit brew. it also tends to make me burp a little bit.
fergi.


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## Ben Crossman (10/3/11)

overcarbed now?


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## fergi (18/3/11)

ok its back, my smurtos golden ale that i thought was infected is ok, thought it was infected a couple weeks ago but didnt toss it, tried it again today to see what has happened to the infection,well it tastes great again,dont know what was going on in those two weeks but its back, its got a slightly different taste now ,more like a james squire ga but its a great drop once again, i am so happy.
fergi


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## np1962 (18/3/11)

:icon_offtopic: How's AG 2 fergi, the Blonde Ale?


fergi said:


> ok its back, my smurtos golden ale that i thought was infected is ok, thought it was infected a couple weeks ago but didnt toss it, tried it again today to see what has happened to the infection,well it tastes great again,dont know what was going on in those two weeks but its back, its got a slightly different taste now ,more like a james squire ga but its a great drop once again, i am so happy.
> fergi


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