# Ideal Mash Tun Volume



## b_thomas (11/2/08)

A Mash Tun is something I'm looking at putting a few dollars each week away for, but I'm wondering what size I should be going for? I know most folks will say bigger is better, but does the volume of the Tun need to match the volume of the fermenter? I mean can I get away with a 15L Tun for a 22-25L batch? If I were to sparge with a separate lot of water this would make sense (I think). Anyways I thought I'd put it out there as I'm looking at getting my hands on a temp controlled hot water urn, I just don't want to fork out for a 30L when a 15L will do the same job at less than half the price.


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## Fents (11/2/08)

someone posted a link once...how much can i fit in my mash tun or somthing similar, just had a search but cant find it.

its really good, you basically put in how much grain you wanna use and what your grain:water ratio is and it calculates it all for you.

I swear there should be a thread with all these tiny little links in it.


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## Cortez The Killer (11/2/08)

I've got a 44L

and it can get mighty full even with 25-27L batches

I'd recommend paying a little extra for a bigger tun and then chuck a bit of camping mat cut to size on the mash to maintain the temp

You never know what you'll be doing down the road a little with brewing

I also discovered that my mash tun perfectly fits my 12L party keg too

Sure you could do multiple sparges and mash in thick but for the sake of a few bob it's not worth your while

Cheers

Edit: Bad engrish


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## devo (11/2/08)

I use a 50ltr converted keg and the most grain I've mashed with was 12kg.......I'm hoping I can get 15kg into it some day soon.


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## kevnlis (11/2/08)

I have a 25L esky tun and have successfully done a 23L batch at 1.074 with a 68% efficiency 

8.25 kilos of grain and 19L of water, I did an 8L decoction at the end to hit mash out temp. I think this would be the highest gravity you could achieve from a 25L esky tun for a full 23L batch unless you were able to get a crazy high efficiency! Honestly I wish I had gone for a 30L fibreglass esky, you can always float a cut of custom made high density camping foam (to sleep on) to hold the heat in for small batches and it allows you to do those IIPA's and Dopplebocks.


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## b_thomas (11/2/08)

So it looks like the bigger the better  I'm a bit lazy when it comes to the temperature control which is why I'm opting for the hot water urn, turn the dial to whatever the required temp is then wait. I guess I'll need to keep my eye out on ebay.


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## Ducatiboy stu (11/2/08)

You dont want to big, as you will lose heat to the open space ( even if it is closed in)..

A good trick is to place a bit of polystyrene on top of the grain during the mash. helps to keep a lot of heat in the grain..


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## Stuster (11/2/08)

Fents said:


> someone posted a link once...how much can i fit in my mash tun or somthing similar, just had a search but cant find it.
> 
> its really good, you basically put in how much grain you wanna use and what your grain:water ratio is and it calculates it all for you.
> 
> I swear there should be a thread with all these tiny little links in it.



The Can I mash it? calculator. Here ya go.  

15L is probably on the small size. You might want to do some bigger beers or double batches. I've got a 36L one.


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## Fents (11/2/08)

Thats it, biggups.


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## drsmurto (11/2/08)

Just to put a spanner in the works by i think the kettle size is the important part. My tun is 55L but my kettle is only 50L so whilst i could fit a shedload of grain into the tun i cant boil anything more than 40L to be on the safe size. So i end up doing 20L batches as i keg and to date, havent been arsed trying to work out maz batch size.


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## Stuster (11/2/08)

What about doing a parti-gyle, Dr Smurto? Two beers for one. B)


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## bigholty (11/2/08)

I do 23L all-grain batches and I have a 25L esky for a mash tun, which I find to be a tad small but I get away with it. I put 12L water with 5kg grain and add a couple of litres of boiling water during mash to maintain temps. I find when I come to add boiling water to get to my mash-out temp, there's not enough room to fit it all in. IMHO, I think you probably want at least a 30-35L mash tun for a 23L batch, although you can get away with less. Hope that helps.


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## drsmurto (11/2/08)

Hmmm. Left myself open for that one i suppose. I had thought about it and even downloaded a few calcs, spoke to people and then my laziness kicked in...... 

Besides, lifting mash tun and kettle manually requires that i dont fill them up to much! Serious OHS issues but i dont have a brew stand so use varying parts of the verandah, tables and several milk crates..... not quite as impressive as vee dub wheels but its getting the job done.


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## b_thomas (11/2/08)

DrSmurto said:


> Just to put a spanner in the works by i think the kettle size is the important part. My tun is 55L but my kettle is only 50L so whilst i could fit a shedload of grain into the tun i cant boil anything more than 40L to be on the safe size. So i end up doing 20L batches as i keg and to date, havent been arsed trying to work out maz batch size.



Which is why im looking at getting the hot water urn, no need to have a seperate kettle, if I can fit it with a false bottom / manifold then it should be a nice little all-in-one unit. Looking at prices though I'd be looking at 250-280 for a new 30L set up.


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## enoch (11/2/08)

DrSmurto said:


> Besides, lifting mash tun and kettle manually requires that i dont fill them up to much! Serious OHS issues but i dont have a brew stand so use varying parts of the verandah, tables and several milk crates..... not quite as impressive as vee dub wheels but its getting the job done.


Pump? The HLT was the thing that used to scare me the most. 40L of hot water above head height. Haven't solved the big kegs or fermenter but at least they are near ground level.

Versus the ~$300 urn I would vote for a cheapish esky (just bought a willow 55L for ~$50 for an upgrade) and some braid. SHould be able to do a good MLT for well under $100. You will still need a boiler though...


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## Thirsty Boy (11/2/08)

I only recently upgraded from a 20L mash tun to a 28L mash tun. Both were fine for single (19-23L) batches if you didn't get too excited and try to brew a barleywine or something. With a little (about 6%) sugar adjunct I managed to brew a nice 22.5L batch of 1.075 strong ale in that mash tun.

It all depends on how you sparge. I exclusively batch sparge, so I cant say anything about the volumes needed in a flysparge rig.

I'm with Smurto, mashtun wise 25L can be made to work for single batches of pretty much anything, and double batches of a lot of things, but you still have to boil it - and with my 50L kettle the biggest post boil volume I can manage is about 35L. So in some cases at least, its my kettle that limits me rather than my mash tun.

Having said all that... I will probably soon be upgrading the 28L mashtun to a 40L one, this will give me the flexibility to sparge in ways I currently cant. But its only flexibilty of _methods_ I get it wont actually allow me to brew beers that I currently cant.

BTW - if you are thinking of going with the Urn... I suspect (I'm not sure but I strongly suspect) that doing as you say with the mash and simply dialling the temp and walking away, might well both scorch your brew and contribute to the earl death of your element. I would be very reluctant to have any sort of direct heat on the brew without constant stirring to avoid hot spots and any bits sitting on an element for too long and going crispy.

Urn on to get to strike temp - walk away OK
Mash in
Raise temp if required with constant stirring
Urn OFF - walk away

or something like that. Have a look in the main BIAB thread (just in the recent posts). One of the guys there was discussing how he used his urn for mashing in and had a bit of trouble.

Cheers

Thirsty


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## Kleiny (15/2/08)

DrSmurto
id say for a 23l batch a 25+litre esky would do the job for smaller grainbills however 
if your are into heavier alcohol beers or stouts and porters you are going to be pushing it

if your going to outlay the money you might as well build a converted keg 

goodluck


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## Chris (15/2/08)

Yep,

25lt+ esky.

I get 90% efficiency with batch sparging in my 26lt Willow, and can make 25lt at 1.045 quite easily, but this is because I have everything dialed in from years of use. If I did it again I would go bigger (about 35lt).

With the catering urn the thermostats arn't usually very accurate, my new Crown 30lt that I got, when set at 75 will hit about 78 and then cool down to about 73 before it kicks in again, so you need better temp control like a MM mashmate for mashing. I use mine in this configureation as a HLT and its brilliant. I wouldnt dare mixing grain in it though, Charring grain startch is maybe even worse smelling than burning hair.


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## PJO (15/2/08)

b_thomas said:


> So it looks like the bigger the better  I'm a bit lazy when it comes to the temperature control which is why I'm opting for the hot water urn, turn the dial to whatever the required temp is then wait. I guess I'll need to keep my eye out on ebay.



You're gonna get a hundred different answers on this, cause there isn't one way to do this.

So I'm gonna add my way to all the others, nothing right or wrong, just what I do.

I have a 50L HLT, 50L Mash Tun, 81L Kettle, all are converted kegs.

For 25L batches (thats 25L post boil vol, which means around 20L finished beer) I find that I lose quite a bit of heat in the mash tun because its only less than half full, 18L or so. I fly sparge so extra vol isn't an issue, its important if you want to batch sparge to have more volume in the mash tun.

50L batches (at standard 1.050 gravity) work well on my system because that is what it was design for, but it gives the flexibility to do the big beers as well. Depends what you want (how much do you like Belgians :icon_drool2: )

My suggestion would be to get a mash tun similar to your final batch size.

Cheers,
Petr

EDIT: Schpellng, vrking with a few pints nder m blt


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## malbur (18/2/08)

enoch said:


> I would vote for a cheapish esky (just bought a willow 55L for ~$50 for an upgrade) and some braid. SHould be able to do a good MLT for well under $100. You will still need a boiler though...



When making a mash tun, where do i get the braid from and what is it called.
Does it have any tube inside it or is it straight braid


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## Jye (18/2/08)

The braid comes with tubing inside. To remove it you need to cut the ends off and then pull it out which can some times be a real PITA. Any hardware store should have it in the plumbing section in length from 0.5-2m.


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## crozdog (18/2/08)

malbur said:


> When making a mash tun, where do i get the braid from and what is it called.
> Does it have any tube inside it or is it straight braid


go to a plumbing supplies or mitre 10/bunnings & get an "easy hooker" from the plumbing section. They are used to connect taps up to wall outlets eg under vanities. they have the braid over a rubber hose & a screw fitting on each end. You will need to cut 1 end completely off & just through the braid on the other end (that allows you to get the braid off the hose easier cause you have something to grip the hose with. Wrap some electrical tape aropund the hose where you want to cut & cut in the middle of the tape - this will stop the "jaggy" ends of the braid from catching on things like your hand a lot.

you can also buy the braid from performance car places like Earles braided hose - but it'll cost you more


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## b_thomas (20/2/08)

Just revisiting this thread to see a whole heap of new contributions. After some more reading I've definitely opted out of going for the Urn style MLT. An esky with a false bottom is going to be a whole lot cheaper and it can double to keep my beer cold when im not mashing! 

Now should I go for rectangular or cylindrical? :: puts the tin opener away :: j/k.


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## crozdog (20/2/08)

b_thomas said:


> Now should I go for rectangular or cylindrical?


I'd say it depends on what you have or can get.

Don't forget you can make a tun easily enough. Use the bucket in bucket method as used by Brewfrau or get a drum, gaffer tape, some insulation and a few plumbing fittings & you'll have a tun in a couple of hours. Check out the pics here for making the braid / fittings & here  for the finished result. This tun holds 200l and cost me less than $100 to make (half of that was for the 1" braid). The insulation cost me $5 for a roll (from Reverse Garbage). I am about to repeat the process fith a smaller drum cause my 75l esky tun is finally dying  

DrS has wise words to say earlier about the kettle size. I reckon a 70-80l kettle will give the most flexibility for most people.

Stusters suggestion of a partigyle is very valid. The ISB have done some fabulous brew days using this technique.


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## b_thomas (20/2/08)

That's one big bucket you have there! :lol: I don't have a boiler big enough for something that size


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## Thirsty Boy (20/2/08)

I just built a brand new mash-tun from a 47L storage container from bunnings - $8.00. New easy hooker for hos braid replacement. 60cm approx $10 ... already had the tap and plumbing bit, but altogether maybe another $15 ??

No insulation required for me because I run a HERMS... but a $5.00 camping mat and a bit of gaffa tape would see you right altogether <$50 for a 47L mashtun






Too easy and cheap as. Works a treat for single drain batch sparging and double batches will be a doddle with a two equal drain regimen.

Thirsty




edit ... to add the picture and remove the vile invective


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## Guest Lurker (20/2/08)

Damn, I missed the vile invective! Nice idea for a tun, although all my attempts to use those things as eskies have been short lived, they seem to degrade and crack very rapidly and not hold water. Keep it out of sunlight and go easy on it and it will be interesting to see how long it lasts.


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## Thirsty Boy (20/2/08)

Been using a 28L one for the last six months or so... about 8ish brews and no probs. Just wanted bigger.


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## PostModern (20/2/08)

Guest Lurker said:


> Keep it out of sunlight



QFT. My Mrs has bought lots of these things for storage around the house. I've found them to be very UV unstable, to the point that I've had some of them, especially the cheap ones, break in between the mall and the car in the car-park!


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## b_thomas (20/2/08)

Are those roller tubs food safe? A lot of them are made in China, and we all know what they're like with plastics. You might end up having some very interesting additives to your beer 

Actually the Rubbermaid 10Gal cooler looks like it'd make a great MLT. Just need to manufacture an effective manifold or just fork out for one of the cylindrical falsies.


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## Thirsty Boy (21/2/08)

b_thomas said:


> Are those roller tubs food safe? A lot of them are made in China, and we all know what they're like with plastics. You might end up having some very interesting additives to your beer
> 
> Actually the Rubbermaid 10Gal cooler looks like it'd make a great MLT. Just need to manufacture an effective manifold or just fork out for one of the cylindrical falsies.




Probably not, but then neither is the tubing that half of the brewers here use, not the black plastic fittings, or the cheap garden hose QD's... If the tub I have been using has been leaching chemicals, its been leaching tasteless chemicals, and thats good enough for me.

The plastic eski I was using as a mashtun for the previous 40 brews was also made in china and no more likely to be food safe. I doubt if the Gotts or any other eski is a whole lot better. I might be wrong and probably am, what with the brain damage caused by the leaching plastisisers...

Thirsty :icon_drool2:


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## SpillsMostOfIt (21/2/08)

I think there is some variation in plastic tubs.

I have a small quantity of 50litre (ish) clear plastic tubs. I use one as a bottle soaker and general 'bucket'. It has lived outside for the past six months or so and is as good as the day it made a machine go Ping on its way out of Bunnings.

Mine are Zag brand...

Edit: Added extra invective.


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## Lukes (21/2/08)

Guest Lurker said:


> Damn, I missed the vile invective! Nice idea for a tun, although all my attempts to use those things as eskies have been short lived, they seem to degrade and crack very rapidly and not hold water. Keep it out of sunlight and go easy on it and it will be interesting to see how long it lasts.



GL, are the pic's of the misadventure with the esky and spilled malt still around?
It's probably something you want to forget but the pic's may be a lesson for others!

- Luke


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## rich_lamb (21/2/08)

I'm also interested in any thoughts about cylindrical vs square coolers - anybody used both?

I'm looking to replace my 20L square esky. I can do 20L batches in this but it's pretty squeezy and I only get 65% efficiency. I can find plenty of square coolers around in all sorts of sizes, but is there an advantage to a cylindrical.

From what I can see you'd end up with a taller grain bed, so would it filter better or be more prone to sticking? I do batch sparging, and am not planning to change that at least...


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