# BJCP course?



## Moad (4/6/13)

All,

Does anyone know of any bjcp courses or exams coming up in the hunter/newy area? Really keen to get involved if there is a chance of anything happening...

Cheers,

Nick.


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## tiprya (4/6/13)

Are there any in NSW at all?

I've been interested in one in Sydney for a while.


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## Moad (4/6/13)

It looks like something was run in 09/10 around here but not much since.


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## manticle (4/6/13)

If you get enough people interested, you can run one. The main problem is the limited number of exams (with limited spots) available so you may need to organise a year or more in advance.

I'd recommend 12-20 people. A lot may drop off during the course. There's one running in melbourne at them moment (too late and too far for you) - I'm sure I could hook you up via email if you wanted to ask any questions (or anyone else does/did).

I helped organise various elements of a previous one here (melb) as well so I can offer both suggested dos and don'ts* from my experience via email or PM.

*probably lots of don'ts (or just a big DON'T!)**

**a joke


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## Moad (4/6/13)

There doesn't appear to be any exams in NSW until Nov 2015 (from BJCP site). 

Manticle I will PM you for some info, I'll speak to HUB before looking too much into it as they would be in a better position to organise something.

Cheers


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## sp0rk (4/6/13)

Is there any other judging organisations that can do training here?
I'd be more than happy to come down to Newy or Sydney to do a course if we could organise one (and if i had the funds at the time)


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## Moad (4/6/13)

A training course is a good idea, might be good to use this as a bit of a register for interest to get the ball rolling. 

As for the actual taste exam they need to be sanctioned by BJCP, I'll see if I can find who organised the last exam and get some more info.


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## barls (4/6/13)

i believe stu booked the next test in nsw, cant remember the date as the last one was in april,


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## kahlerisms (5/6/13)

I'd be interested in getting on board something in Melbourne.


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## Moad (6/6/13)

Hey Barls, I'm still fairly new on here could you put me in contact with Stu. Is his AHB name just Stu?

Kahlerisms this thread is in the Hunter United Brewers sub forum so you might be best to contact someone locally mate. 

I am going to head down to the next HUB meeting and introduce myself, actually maybe the one after as it is anniversary weekend and SWMBO would have my nuts in a vice.


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## barls (6/6/13)

stu as in stuster on here. try pming him but he might be away atm.
other than that maybe try keith the brewer at potters. he may have some more info.


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## freek (2/10/13)

+1 if it runs in Newey. I am prepared to commute to Sydney for it as well.


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## barls (2/10/13)

dont know if hes planning on running one for the next set best contact him about it.
he was talking the next test wasnt till 2015 but could be wrong as i was drinking on the day.


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## carniebrew (30/4/14)

Dragging up an old thread here rather than starting a new one. There was some discussion around BJCP certification at our club meeting last night. Does anyone know who's maintaining BJCP certification info for Australia? Google returns a link to Vicbrew: http://vicbrew.org/abjcp.html, but that page seems to be well out of date, saying the next course is in 2011. 

The "International Resources" page on bjcp.org has a few references for Australia, one which points to the out of date vicbrew page, and another for "Beer Judges Australia" that now returns a "404 page not found" error.


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## carniebrew (30/4/14)

I'm bumping this to give it a chance to be seen during peak time...


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## Yeastfridge (30/4/14)

I'd be keen for a course in Sydney. Not very productive for me to say so but now I'll get updates on this thread...


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## manticle (1/5/14)

Carniebrew - send a pm to andyd.


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## geneabovill (1/5/14)

The BJCP site has a schedule for the exam, and the Aussie exams are lumped in with the USA ones.

As for a course, have a google around, I'm sure there are webinars around for that stuff.

Edit: found this - http://www.betterbeerscores.com


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## kahlerisms (1/5/14)

I know a study group was being run around Ringwood or Croydon late last year. I would be keen to get in board with something, too.


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## Spiesy (1/5/14)

I am also interested.


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## davedoran (1/5/14)

+1 for interest


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## Black n Tan (1/5/14)

And another interested.


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## doon (1/5/14)

Same here


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## MartinOC (1/5/14)

Gents,

Just a few days ago, this very topic was doing the rounds of the VICBREW committee via emails, as the current regime of training/accrediting judges is too stringent & doesn't fit with most folks' capabilities (ie. attendance, not judging capabilities).

It's been a bone of contention in recent years that a lot of people put their hands-up for judge-training, then either don't follow-through with it, or get the qualification & then don't stick their hands-up to judge comp's.

We NEED more judges!!

Andyd is in the process of drafting a proposal to Gordon Strong to look at ways we can get more qualified/accredited judges in Oz., so if you have anything to say, shoot it my-way & I'll collate the responses for Andy (he's WAAAAY too busy to respond to individual PM's atm).

Either PM me with your comments, or (possibly easier for me!), post them here.


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## Midnight Brew (1/5/14)

Ofcourse I'm in. I was meant to discuss it over with Andy at the Melb brewers meeting but I've missed two meetings for medical reasons.


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## GalBrew (1/5/14)

I would also be interested.


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## carniebrew (1/5/14)

MartinOC said:


> <snip>
> 
> Andyd is in the process of drafting a proposal to Gordon Strong to look at ways we can get more qualified/accredited judges in Oz., so if you have anything to say, shoot it my-way & I'll collate the responses for Andy (he's WAAAAY too busy to respond to individual PM's atm).
> 
> Either PM me with your comments, or (possibly easier for me!), post them here.


Getting current information available and easily found via the web would be a great start. The BJCP page on VicBrew's website says the next course is 2011. If Vicbrew need any help with that, I'd be happy to assist.


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## MartinOC (1/5/14)

carniebrew said:


> Getting current information available and easily found via the web would be a great start. The BJCP page on VicBrew's website says the next course is 2011. If Vicbrew need any help with that, I'd be happy to assist.


PM me your email address & I'll send you the draft proposal put to the committee (I can't attach stuff to PM's).


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## Muzduk (1/5/14)

Following with interest


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## geneabovill (1/5/14)

Mark me down.. I'll do whatever. Even if I have to trade my leave pass to attend ANHC and go do a judging exam/course in Melbourne instead.


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## MartinOC (1/5/14)

Ruckus said:


> Mark me down.. I'll do whatever. Even if I have to trade my leave pass to attend ANHC and go do a judging exam/course in Melbourne instead.


Steady, Tiger!

If you've already got the leave pass for ANHC, use it, don't blow it!

We're talking long-term stuff here....


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## geneabovill (2/5/14)

I'm sure I could get away with both.. But that could be the booze talking.


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## carniebrew (2/5/14)

Ruckus said:


> The BJCP site has a schedule for the exam, and the Aussie exams are lumped in with the USA ones.
> 
> As for a course, have a google around, I'm sure there are webinars around for that stuff.
> 
> Edit: found this - http://www.betterbeerscores.com


I hadn't spotted that, thank Ruckus. For anyone else who missed it, go to http://www.bjcp.org/exams.php then do a search (CTRL-F for non fanboi's) for Australia. Looks like the next exam is scheduled for June in Melbourne, but the date shows as ??. Does anyone know who Julian Sanders is? I've sent him an email. 

The next exam after that is scheduled for Melb in August (again no day), then one in Adelaide on Dec 12.


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## manticle (2/5/14)

Julian ran the last study group that I know of.


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## wogdog (2/5/14)

Sorry prob a noob question but what's this all about course etc..? Just reading previous posts an im not understanding what this course is wit abbreviations etc ? Sorry to ask prob a silly question.


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## Crofty (2/5/14)

They're talking about a course to cover the content of the Beer Judge Certification Program (BJCP) examinations.


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## geneabovill (3/5/14)

I've contacted the mob at Better Beer Scores to see if they'll run a webinar course at a time that would suit us.

If we get enough people to make it worth their while they may be convinced to stay up late/get up early to cater for us. 

Lemme know if you're interested so I can feed this back to them.




GB


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## Crofty (6/5/14)

Interested


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## geneabovill (8/5/14)

Update: the guys at Better Beer Scores have responded. They're working out how best to deliver a program to us, so if there _are_ enough people interested, please spam this thread. They run two courses. One is about brewing techniques and the other is about judging. I kinda wanna do both, but if there's only enough interest for one or the other, I'll go with that one.

Edit: I've suggested to them that 5pm Friday afternoon their time/9am Saturday morning out time, depending on the length of each session might be a good compromise for timezones. Obviously we may have to tweak the times to suit everyone, but that's a decent starting point, I think.

Keep me posted.


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## davedoran (8/5/14)

Interested in both as well


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## geneabovill (8/5/14)

So I can keep tabs on numbers, can we do it like the Christmas Lotto. Register your interest by copying the list into a new reply and adding your name to the bottom, so I can keep a running tally for the facilitators of the course.

We can access three courses: Basics, Styles & Tastings and Mastery. Check www.betterbeerscores.com for more info. We get 20% off if we register for Basics and Styles & Tastings. These prepare you for the Entrance Exam and the Tasting Exam. Mastery prepares you for the written portion of the exam.

1. Ruckus
2. Gal Brew
3. Black n Tan
4. doon
5. dave doran
6. sp0rk
7. freek
8. Yeastfridge
9. Spiesy


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## manticle (8/5/14)

There probably won't be much point enrolling in the third unless you've already sat the tasting and got 80+.


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## geneabovill (8/5/14)

I'd say that's why they split it into 3 separate webinars in the first place. So consumers aren't paying for a course they can't use. I'm interested in the first two, mainly. I don't have the time to dedicate too much more to judging.


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## srm (8/5/14)

Plus 1

1. Ruckus
2. Gal Brew
3. Black n Tan
4. doon
5. dave doran
6. sp0rk
7. freek
8. Yeastfridge
9. Spiesy
10. srmid


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## manticle (8/5/14)

> I'd say that's why they split it into 3 separate webinars in the first place. So consumers aren't paying for a course they can't use. I'm interested in the first two, mainly. I don't have the time to dedicate too much more to judging.


Absolutely. Just pointing it out for those who may not be familiar with the new exam format.

I'm considering the tasting - I have certified BJCP but another 5 points in my results would see me able to sit the written exam.
I'll keep an eye on the thread - once dates are known, I'll have a better idea.


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## Crofty (8/5/14)

1. Ruckus
2. Gal Brew
3. Black n Tan
4. doon
5. dave doran
6. sp0rk
7. freek
8. Yeastfridge
9. Spiesy
10. srmid
11. Crofty


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## geneabovill (8/5/14)

Info on the structure that Manticle mentioned can be found here: http://www.bjcp.org/docs/BJCP_Exam_Structure.pdf

Style guidelines here: http://www.bjcp.org/docs/2008_stylebook.pdf

Beer scoresheets here: http://www.bjcp.org/docs/SCP_BeerScoreSheet.pdf

I recommend printing out a few of the scoresheets, buying some commercial examples of some of the styles - styles you're unfamiliar with, for preference, and completing the scoresheets (maybe within your homebrew club - it's always better in groups). This will give you some experience in the process of judging.

There are a number of resources available on vocabulary: The Brewing Network have a few podcasts on beer evaluation vocabulary, one by a Certified Cicerone (beer sommelier) and one by Jamil Zainasheff (spelling) who, among other things, is a Grand Master Beer Judge. Podcasts: 11/11/12 Taste Like a Judge and 22/08/11 Beer Vocabulary.

Hope that helps.. h34r:


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## doon (8/5/14)

Jeebus that structure PDF is a tad confusing


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## jphowman (8/5/14)

1. Ruckus
2. Gal Brew
3. Black n Tan
4. doon
5. dave doran
6. sp0rk
7. freek
8. Yeastfridge
9. Spiesy
10. srmid
11. Crofty 
12. Franks


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## Crofty (9/5/14)

Hope you don't mind but I posted a link to this thread over on one of the craft beer Facebook groups - yeer in beer.

There's about a thousand in the group and they're into their beers so might get some extra numbers to boost interest.


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## geneabovill (10/5/14)

No worries at all, mate. The more people we have, the more likely they are to do it.


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## Crofty (14/5/14)

This thread appears to have slowed down and that makes me a sad panda


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## MartinOC (14/5/14)

Crofty said:


> This thread appears to have slowed down and that makes me a sad panda


Hehe! Far from it, mate. I've been lurking & following the conversations so far...

Rest assured that (in Melbourne at least), this stuff is being ACTIVELY (proactively) considered, discussed & worked-on by the VICBREW committee members. That might not be useful to folks in other areas, but that's for the other State's organising bodies to get onto.....(Hint!).


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## doon (14/5/14)

Awesome to hear!


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## geneabovill (14/5/14)

Hasn't slowed down, I just haven't had anything further to report. The Better Beer Scores guys haven't gotten back to me, so I'm exploring other courses. 

If anyone knows of some others, feel free to suggest them, or contact them yourselves.


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## Siborg (14/5/14)

Anyone looking at this and considering it, it is well worth doing even if you don't do that well (like me) on the exam. I did the Melbourne one a couple of years back and learnt so much more about all the beer styles and brewing. Even if you never plan on doing judging, it's worth doing to gain exposure to some beers you otherwise wouldn't and discuss it with other brewers. Besides, who doesn't enjoy drinking a few beers and talking beer styles and brewing with other brewers/enthusiasts?


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## MartinOC (14/5/14)

Siborg, I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Becoming a judge (or even learning the process of judging) WILL make you a better brewer, as you learn the intricacies of ingredients/process & how to evaluate, identify (& therefore rectify) your own brewing problems. I used to judge years ago, but I've gone the way of Stewarding nowadays. I would urge anyone who wants to make better beer to get into it.

The problem we (ie. Comp. organisers) face is to get folks who have done the training to actually PRACTICE that learning without feeling intimidated by a competition environment. It's not hard & you won't be chastised by anyone for sticking your hand-up.

Look at it as practicing your evaluation skills on a multitude of styles. Plus, you get to drink free beer!!

What could possibly be wrong with that??


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## Muzduk (14/5/14)

franks said:


> 1. Ruckus
> 2. Gal Brew
> 3. Black n Tan
> 4. doon
> ...


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## manticle (14/5/14)

MartinOC said:


> Plus, you get to drink free beer!!
> 
> What could possibly be wrong with that??


Some of the beer is awful?

Agree though - stick your hand up to judge at least one comp a year in your area. You drink some beer, talk beer shit with other interested brewers and continue developing your palate. It's well worth it. If you get BJCP (or even if you don't) try and commit to at least one regular comp per year. It's always a struggle to get judges and if you want comps to run successfully with good judging, consider being a part of what makes it happen. As well as the awful stuff, there are some really great beers being brewed so if free beer is your thing, you'll probably have a few pints of the good stuff every time you judge.


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## MartinOC (15/5/14)

manticle said:


> Some of the beer is awful?


Well, yes, there IS that...occasionally..

But!! For the most part, there's great beers on offer & you just gotta take the good with the bad.

The beauty is that as a capable/trained/accredited judge, you get to evaluate them, acknowledge the good attributes, Identify the bad ones & improve your own brewing as a result. THAT's the benefit to you as a brewer!


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## Siborg (15/5/14)

MartinOC said:


> Well, yes, there IS that...occasionally..
> 
> But!! For the most part, there's great beers on offer & you just gotta take the good with the bad.
> 
> The beauty is that as a capable/trained/accredited judge, you get to evaluate them, acknowledge the good attributes, Identify the bad ones & improve your own brewing as a result. THAT's the benefit to you as a brewer!


Yeah, judging is great for all of those reasons. I've been out of the loop for quite some time (including actually brewing) and I'm only just starting up with that. It'd be good to try and get back to help out with judging, further develop my evaluation skills then aim for a higher score on the exam. 

Anyways, do the course and help out with some comps if you can. I don't understand why people shy away from it.


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## doon (16/5/14)

I would be judging as much as I could! No point in doing course then not judging


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## Edgebrew (18/6/14)

Hi. Did anything become of this thread/course? I'm in melbourne and also interested. 

Cheers.


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## MartinOC (18/6/14)

I know of a 90-minute tasting exam that's to be held in Alphington (Melb.) on 5/7/14 & a written exam a coupe of months later (assuming you get the prerequisite 80% on the tasting exam), but if you haven't boned-up on your styles & got currency in your judging skills, it's probably a no-go for most.

I don't have precise details, but if folks want me to find-out more, I can certainly attempt to do so.


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## manticle (18/6/14)

If I wasn't moving on that exact date I'd go for it. Got 75 and would be interested on improving to 80+ and sitting the written. Around the corner from me too.


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## Edgebrew (19/6/14)

MartinOC said:


> I know of a 90-minute tasting exam that's to be held in Alphington (Melb.) on 5/7/14 & a written exam a coupe of months later (assuming you get the prerequisite 80% on the tasting exam), but if you haven't boned-up on your styles & got currency in your judging skills, it's probably a no-go for most.
> 
> I don't have precise details, but if folks want me to find-out more, I can certainly attempt to do so.


Thanks but I would probably be interested in attending a study course before doing that. So you can judge without BJCP or other certificate? How do you get experience to do that?

Hmm. Looks like I need to join a homebrew club. Listening to the BN is no substitute.


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## manticle (19/6/14)

You can judge without BJCP. Experience is gained by judging - usually a novice judge will be paired with someone more experienced on their first go or so.


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## MartinOC (19/6/14)

manticle said:


> Experience is gained by judging.


...and drinking a LOT of different beers.

Guys, you need to realise that there's *NO* Catch-22 here. It's not like you have to have certification in order to judge, but you have to judge to get your certification.

The biggest problems I find with novices is that they feel intimidated at the thought of pulling someone else's beer apart & don't feel confident in their own knowledge, skills & abilities to do so.

I used to judge for many years, but I've gone down the Stewarding path in the past 10 years or so. I judged at State & National Competitions with absolutely NO certification whatsoever, but I was still considered a good judge (tough, but consistently-so).

As Manticle pointed-out, perhaps the best way to learn to judge is to get involved in local/club comp's & sit-in with a panel of experienced judges & get your feet wet, listen to what they're saying & see if you can pick-up the same things.

Learning & experience by DOING....


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## manticle (19/6/14)

And comps in vic always need more judges.


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## MartinOC (24/6/14)

For those interested in pursuing this, here's a link to Gordon Strong's presentation at the NHC 2014 regarding the proposed changes to the BJCP style guidelines.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQgPmW1LboU&feature=youtu.be

The good thing is that Australian Sparkling Ale is now recognised as a distinct style (as opposed to being described as a variant of California Common or a Cream-Ale) after a "hammering" (as Gordon puts it) by Aussie lobbyists :beerbang:


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## Parks (24/6/14)

MartinOC said:


> & a written exam a coupe of months later (assuming you get the prerequisite 80% on the tasting exam),


I hope they haven't booked them too close. We are 4 months now after the tasting exam and don't have the results yet.


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## Edgebrew (24/6/14)

Thanks for the info. Ill look into helping at the vic competitions. Looks like fun.


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## Parks (24/6/14)

Parks said:


> I hope they haven't booked them too close. We are 4 months now after the tasting exam and don't have the results yet.


Just looked and the written is at most 8 weeks later - no chance you can take the written if doing the tasting in July.


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## geneabovill (24/6/14)

Sooooooo... Never did hear back from the blokes at betterbeerscores.com - my guess is they don't wanna stay up late/get up early for us.

Any other ideas?


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## danestead (23/7/14)

I dont have any ideas however I and 1 or 2 other mates are keen if the opportunity comes up


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## geneabovill (23/7/14)

Cheers mate. I'm still working on finding us all something - just strapped for time at the minute with a new baby.

I'll keep people posted on this thread as things progress (or not) and anyone who has leads for me to follow, feel free to post here or flick me a PM.


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## Crofty (29/7/14)

Not BJCP, but it noticed this section in the CBIA announcement of the inaugural awards later this year.

http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=efc68a34ee82c833224e6e5b8&id=a9fcdcccc2

Start Quote~
“We’re lucky to have so many experienced judges in Australia, many of them with international experience,” said Bonighton. 

“With the Craft Beer Awards we have decided to follow the World Beer Cup model and not appoint a Head Judge. This will ensure that all of Australia’s best brewers will be able to enter their beers with no concerns of a conflict of interest.”

“We are also committed to bringing on the next generation of judges and will be instituting an Associate Judges programme, the details of which we will be releasing shortly,” said Bonighton.
~ end quote

I'm probably reading too much into this but wondering how this associate judges program will work.... Wishful thinking perhaps?


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## geneabovill (3/8/14)

Could be a goer. I've sent emails off to IBD and Sebel too.. Might be a stretch though, they're both brewing organisations, not judging.. But still.


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## Moad (4/8/14)

Lost track of this thread, I'm still keen to do this whether it is through the local brew club or webinar etc.

Would prefer it to be in person if possible.

keen though...


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