# Hb Article In The Age...



## devo (1/5/07)

bugger, we have been outed to the masses fella's. Run to the hills  

Homebrew article


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## DarkFaerytale (1/5/07)

nice article, anyone from here being fetured in the article?

-Phill


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## warrenlw63 (1/5/07)

:lol: Typically it led to Brewcraft. <_< 

"Pulling" Power seems an apt headline. :blink: 

Warren -


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## Cortez The Killer (1/5/07)

Fairly good article

Cheers


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## randyrob (1/5/07)

"Home-brew manufacturers would say you can drink your beer after it's been in the bottle for a fortnight. And that's true. But if you leave it for six months or 12?months, instead of two weeks, it undergoes a process very much like wine maturing and the flavour improves enormously. It doesn't just get a little bit better, it gets a whole heap better."

yeah like a first time homebrewer is going to leave their beer for 6 months before they drink it!


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## Malnourished (1/5/07)

warrenlw63 said:


> :lol: Typically it led to Brewcraft. <_<


And accompanied by a lovely puff piece for Penfolds...

I still love the Epicure though.


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## brettprevans (1/5/07)

devo said:


> bugger, we have been outed to the masses fella's. Run to the hills
> 
> Homebrew article


Nice tidy article. leaves a lot to the imagination and of course doesnt point out that theres a lot of cleaning, waiting, occational messy yeats pools bubbling out of fermenters etc. but all in good fun. Was interested to see that Brewcraft wasnt actualy mentioned (unless I missed it) alhough Mike was interviewed. 

by the way, Brewcraft are now giving away copies of Mike's book on all things brewing with their kits. good book for beginners and it has lots of recipes. 

While you dont want every man and their dog turing to HB it might helps drive prices of ingredients down (not that they are all that high anyway). Any any good exposure for HB has to be a good thing. Places like Brewcraft, Grape & Grain, Grumpys etc need some exposure to help keep them in business and us in supplies.


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## brettprevans (1/5/07)

Malnourished said:


> And accompanied by a lovely puff piece for Penfolds...
> 
> I still love the Epicure though.



dont knock penfolds. I have a nice cellar of penfolds 389, 407, 28 and 128 at home. along with too many other wines (not that theres such a thing as too much alcohol!).

Epicure rocks. I love it. good food and liquor articles (and a food and booze lover).


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## therook (1/5/07)

citymorgue2 said:


> dont knock penfolds. I have a nice cellar of penfolds 389, 407, 28 and 128 at home. along with too many other wines (not that theres such a thing as too much alcohol!).
> 
> Epicure rocks. I love it. good food and liquor articles (and a food and booze lover).




I can sense a wine tasting night coming up at the citymorgue  

rook


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## RobW (1/5/07)

pleased to see we're all "young ,trendy and connoisseurs of the finest ales" too :blink:


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## Hutch (1/5/07)

warrenlw63 said:


> :lol: Typically it led to Brewcraft. <_<


I'm with you Warren <_< - No mention of G&G, or any other HBS. 
Probably a Brewcraft press release...


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## PostModern (1/5/07)

Only a passing mention to "full mash brewers" too. And it was from a BOP guy. "Whilst he says the brewery won't cut into the market of people who prefer to do their own full-mash home brews, it's an option for people just dipping their feet into the hobby, or who don't want the mess of brewing at home." 

"'Oo wants all that mess at 'ome then, ey?"

Another mainstream article that doesn't quite understand the hobby. Perpetuating the Brewcraft/Coopers/Muntons image that homebrewing is pouring cans of goop into a bucket.


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## warrenlw63 (1/5/07)

Hutch said:


> I'm with you Warren <_< - No mention of G&G, or any other HBS.
> Probably a Brewcraft press release...



:lol: Hey Hutch... Ever Read the Michael Rodgers Wilson books? What a joke! "Homebrewing" and "Brewer's Resource Book".

In their defence they dedicate half a page to AG brewing. That was because I think that Brewcraft used to sell mouldy old cracked grain. :blink: 

Brewcraft would love to the the Starbucks of HB I reckon. 

Warren -


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## warrenlw63 (1/5/07)

therook said:


> I can sense a wine tasting night coming up at the citymorgue
> 
> rook



Suck on a couple of coldies you reckon Rook? :lol: 

Warren -


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## tangent (1/5/07)

:lol: 

what's with Penfolds naming system?
they get an accountant to name everything?
I can't remember all the numbers so i steer clear of them.
When you open the St.Henri, let me know.


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## Bobby (1/5/07)

Haha!
You are a sick puppy Warren!


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## brettprevans (1/5/07)

tangent said:


> :lol:
> 
> what's with Penfolds naming system?
> they get an accountant to name everything?
> ...



their numbering system is a bit funny i know, but it works for them. Im not a fan of St Henri. a good 389 beats it anyday. I do have few 707 and a couple of Grange laying down somewhere. It dosnt take a lot of time to learn what each one means. Mostly its about region from where grapes came from. Anyway I think is getting a bit off topic.

Postmodern - I Didnt think about it from the AG point of view. It really is a bit of a one-sided article isnt it. But then again maybe it was just for people to get into the thought of HB. I mean hell Im only K&K etc at the moment cause I dont have $, room or time for AG. but getting back in to K&K paves the way for me to move onto AG. Most serious HB will evential go to AG or Parital Grain anyway, wont they? And if they just want it as a bit of a hobby then K&K tins will suit them. And for beginners the Wilson-Rodgers books are good enough. (out of curiosity anyone got any suggestions for good HB books????)

Warren - love the thought - Brewcraft is starbucks of HB. great image.


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## Hutch (1/5/07)

warrenlw63 said:


> :lol: Hey Hutch... Ever Read the Michael Rodgers Wilson books? What a joke! "Homebrewing" and "Brewer's Resource Book".



...Sigh... My first book was by MRW - came with the "Wander" HB kit I bought 15 years ago.
It's taken MANY years for my mates to forget how bad my HB was - fermented at 25deg C with 1kg sugar...

I refuse to give Brewcraft my $ these days, in spite of the fact that there's one within spitting distance of my work!!! 
So much misleading advice, so many bags of old hops, grain and yeast... Oh, the pain!


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## FazerPete (1/5/07)

PostModern said:


> Another mainstream article that doesn't quite understand the hobby. Perpetuating the Brewcraft/Coopers/Muntons image that homebrewing is pouring cans of goop into a bucket.


Here we go again, another slam at the K&K guys by the AG people. All the article is doing is trying to raise the profile of homebrewing which can only be a good thing if you'd like cheaper products and more stores. Nowhere in there did it mention any shop names or preferences to methods so why are you guys so defensive and vindictive? Is the suggestion that all brewers should straight into AG? Yeah that's really going to get people into brewing when they have to spend hundreds of dollars on equipment before they start. Get real.

What disappoints me PostModern is that you are a moderator and should be respectful all members regardless of what they make and how they do it. Can you just come out now and finally tell us that you don't want any non-AG brewers on this site so that we can stop bothering you mighty AG geniuses?


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## brettprevans (1/5/07)

Hutch said:


> ...Sigh... My first book was by MRW - came with the "Wander" HB kit I bought 15 years ago.
> It's taken MANY years for my mates to forget how bad my HB was - fermented at 25deg C with 1kg sugar...
> 
> I refuse to give Brewcraft my $ these days, in spite of the fact that there's one within spitting distance of my work!!!
> So much misleading advice, so many bags of old hops, grain and yeast... Oh, the pain!




Hutch - Have you got a better place to get supplies from? Im all ears as I'm only just back into the game. Im in Nunawading (Eastern Suburbs) and I know Northcote pretty well. 

Coopers etc have a lot to answer for also for putting the same instructions on their 'how to' instructions under the can lids. Admittedly MRW book doesnt advocate sugar anymore. but I can see hows its a bit of a slap in the face to experianced brewers and AG brewers.


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## braufrau (1/5/07)

Hutch said:


> It's taken MANY years for my mates to forget how bad my HB was - fermented at 25deg C with 1kg sugar...



Yeah, but the great thing about all those old HBs (and don't forget the taint of sodium met that
went with it  ) is people asspciate that taste with HB and so when they taste mine, 
even the lack lustre stuff, their eyebrows shoot up, and they say "hey! That's not bad!"


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## Wortgames (1/5/07)

I thought the article was pretty good, all things considered. A mention of the fact that it doesn't all end with tins would have been nice, but I thought it was pretty thorough and positive. An article like that can only help to improve the perception of our hobby, so it's all good if you ask me.


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## Malnourished (1/5/07)

FazerPete said:


> Nowhere in there did it mention any shop names or preferences to methods so why are you guys so defensive and vindictive?


Que?

The Australian Home Brewing stores (which pander almost exclusively to the kit crowd) and the Barleycorn Brewers BOP both get a significant mention. :unsure: 

Not that I really care, but I think PostModern's point is your exact same argument in reverse with respect to media more generally. In newspapers, for instance, all-grain brewing is basically invisible - home brewing means using a can of goo - and you're making the same argument about kit brewing here.


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## Murcluf (1/5/07)

May those who have only ever brewed AG and never a K&K throw the first stone....!

Don't forget your roots fellas, it all about the journey not the destination.

That what I like about brewing it like life, it a learning experience and with a little hard work and perseverance you can be rewarded for your efforts.


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## FazerPete (1/5/07)

Malnourished said:


> The Australian Home Brewing stores (which pander almost exclusively to the kit crowd) and the Barleycorn Brewers BOP both get a significant mention
> Point taken. I meant that the name Brewcraft wasn't actually mentioned.





Malnourished said:


> Not that I really care, but I think PostModern's point is your exact same argument in reverse with respect to media more generally. In newspapers, for instance, all-grain brewing is basically invisible - home brewing means using a can of goo - and you're making the same argument about kit brewing here.



No I'm not. I'm not passing any sort of judgement on AG brewing and I admire the people who are so dedicated to their hobby. What annoys me is the patronising way that some AG brewers talk about kit brewing. It's almost as if it's something that kids do but will grow out of when they finally pass the AG rite of passage. Personally I'll never switch because I don't have the time plus I like strong ales so the stuff I can make from kits is pretty good by my palate.

I agree that the media don't give coverage to the AG methods but in general any media coverage is intended to get new people to give it a try. You are going to be much more successful in recruiting more people to the hobby if you can make it sound quick, easy and cheap. From what I've read about AG on here, it's not really any of those to start with.

What I was really annoyed about was a moderator alienating a large part of the membership.


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## Hutch (1/5/07)

braufrau said:


> Yeah, but the great thing about all those old HBs (and don't forget the taint of sodium met that
> went with it  ) is people asspciate that taste with HB and so when they taste mine,
> even the lack lustre stuff, their eyebrows shoot up, and they say "hey! That's not bad!"



That is so true braufrau. 
My mates are forever urging me to put more beer down, as these days they prefer to drink what I've got on tap instead of the 6-packs of premium "whatever" they bring around.
That's truly the best part of HB - you can make better beer than absolutely ANYTHING you can buy :beerbang:


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## tangent (1/5/07)

> have to spend hundreds of dollars on equipment before they start.



how is this different to golf, or archery or whatever else?

its K&K that gives HB a bad name IMO


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## brettprevans (1/5/07)

FazerPete said:


> You are going to be much more successful in recruiting more people to the hobby if you can make it sound quick, easy and cheap. From what I've read about AG on here, it's not really any of those to start with.
> 
> [quote name = 'wortgames'
> I thought the article was pretty good, all things considered. A mention of the fact that it doesn't all end with tins would have been nice, but I thought it was pretty thorough and positive. An article like that can only help to improve the perception of our hobby, so it's all good if you ask me.



Lets obviously going to be some continuing disagreement on this article, but my 2c (not that its worth much) is generally the same as WortGames and Fazers point (and a few others). Any article promoting HB is good for the entire HB community. It raises the profile, attracts new members and most of all, is about brewing and getting people to care about what they drink. Surely everyone can agree on that regardless of preferance for AG, K&K, Partial etc? :huh:


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## Malnourished (1/5/07)

FazerPete said:


> What I was really annoyed about was a moderator alienating a large part of the membership.


I don't really care about the AG vs KK debate - who gives a shit? Just do whatever makes you happy. Personally I think you read too much into PostModern's post, but that's neither here nor there.

But, does being a moderator preclude someone from posting an opinion that might alienate others? I hope not. PostModern wasn't posting as a moderator, he was just posting his personal opinion.


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## Wortgames (1/5/07)

FazerPete, I think you may be overreacting a bit. My take on PoMo's post certainly wasn't that it was some sort of patronising attack on k&k brewing, just a lament of that fact that the casual reader is left with this idea that home brewing is all about buying packets and following instructions. We all know that's not the case, regardless of the type of brewing you do - but that's the image it conveys. It suggests that home brewing wouldn't exist at all without the kit manufacturers, as though making beer at home is some kind of innovation due to modern technology - like making your own soft drinks or button badges or applying glittery studs to your own clothes.

Nobody disputes that k&k brewing represents the lion's share of the homebrew market, and nobody (edit - except Tangent, apparently h34r is trying to diss k&k brewers - it's just a bit of a shame that the skill of the brewer didn't get much of a mention, nor did those of us who invest hours into the entire brewing process from the base ingredients - in an article that supposedly talked about the 'advanced state' of the hobby. If I'm wrong I'm sure PoMo will correct me, but I doubt he was dissing extract brewers as such.

I thought the article was at least positive and fairly accurate - except the fact that it could so easily have been written 5 or even 10 years ago. The hobby has come a long way in that time and the 'cutting edge' is a bit more advanced these days.


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## devo (1/5/07)

devo said:


> bugger, we have been outed to the masses fella's. Run to the hills
> 
> Homebrew article




mmm instead of us all running to the hills from the regular megaswill population it looks like we are instead turning on each other for some healthy sectarian violence? h34r: 


what's next, strapping on bomb vests made up of over fermented long necks at the next brew meeting??? Stand back, she's ready to blow!


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## Stuster (1/5/07)

REG: Right. You're in. Listen. The only people we hate more than the Swilldrinkers are the f'n Brewing People's Font.
P.F.J.: Yeah...
JUDITH: Splitters.
P.F.J.: Splitters...
FRANCIS: And the Popular Brewing People's Font.
P.F.J.: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Splitters. Splitters...
LORETTA: And the People's Font of Brewing.
P.F.J.: Yeah. Splitters. Splitters...
REG: What?
LORETTA: The People's Font of Brewing. Splitters.
REG: We're the People's Font of Brewing!
LORETTA: Oh. I thought we were the Popular Font.
REG: People's Font! C-huh.
FRANCIS: Whatever happened to the Popular Font, Reg?
REG: He's over there.
P.F.J.: Splitter!





Nice gown, PoMo. :lol:


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## FazerPete (1/5/07)

WortGames, if I was just responding to this post then yes, you could say that I have overreacted. Unfortunately in my short time on this forum, this is one of many pot shots at kit brewing. If this wasn't such a great forum then I wouldn't care but the comments of a minority shouldn't be alienating the majority.

I think the article was very positive and probably could have mentioned AG to a greater extent to show that you can take this hobby as far as you want. However, just because it didn't doesn't mean it's another opportunity to have go at the kit brewers.

I DO NOT want to start some sort of AG v K&K debate because that's been done before and unlike some, I respect other people's choices. What I don't understand is why some people are so aggressively anti-kit brewing. What could it possibly have to do with them what other people do in their spare time?

Oh and by the way tangent, if it wasn't for kit brewers do you think that there would be the selection of HB shops around (online or otherwise)? Do you think the prices would be the same? I don't think so.


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## MAH (1/5/07)

FazerPete said:


> What I don't understand is why some people are so aggressively anti-kit brewing. What could it possibly have to do with them what other people do in their spare time?



In general it's none of my business, but this is a public forum, where we are free to discuss what we do in our spare time and hence make comment on it. If you don't like it, then don't participate in a public forum and keep your private life private.

Cheers
MAH


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## Wortgames (1/5/07)

Fair call. I must confess this has actually come as a bit of a surprise to me, I hadn't noticed an anti - kit element here at all. I know I'm probably guilty of assuming that people brew AG (or have kegs) occasionally but that's just laziness and ignorance on my part. 'Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity' and all that.

It's also possible that some comments (made by me or others) are aimed at the 'old school' home brewers that turn out lousy beer and contribute to a shady reputation for the hobby as a whole.

I really hope there isn't a disrespectful bias one way or the other on this forum though, we're all brothers (and sisters) and diversity is critical to health of the hobby IMO.


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## PostModern (1/5/07)

FazerPete said:


> Here we go again, another slam at the K&K guys by the AG people. All the article is doing is trying to raise the profile of homebrewing which can only be a good thing if you'd like cheaper products and more stores. Nowhere in there did it mention any shop names or preferences to methods so why are you guys so defensive and vindictive? Is the suggestion that all brewers should straight into AG? Yeah that's really going to get people into brewing when they have to spend hundreds of dollars on equipment before they start. Get real.
> 
> What disappoints me PostModern is that you are a moderator and should be respectful all members regardless of what they make and how they do it. Can you just come out now and finally tell us that you don't want any non-AG brewers on this site so that we can stop bothering you mighty AG geniuses?



Take it easy, I've only been brewing AG for a year. All I said was that the article took the view that home brewers mix cans of extract in their kitchen. Much of the forward guard in brewing is AG, of which the article said nothing except that it's a mess. It doesn't cast a good light on what we do, nor explain to prospective brewers where they hobby could lead, nor explain to people that beer is made from grain. You'd be surprised how many people in the general population have no idea that it is.

Do you think that the kit makers would have such variety in kits available to the extract brewers if the AG movement hadn't started resurrecting styles? Hell, Porter was brought back from death by American homebrewers, now it's in kits and Lion Nathan make it!

Your response has far more venom than it's worth. Geez, we all started out with a tin opener and big spoon. I still use mine as a mash paddle.



WortGames said:


> FazerPete, I think you may be overreacting a bit. My take on PoMo's post certainly wasn't that it was some sort of patronising attack on k&k brewing, just a lament of that fact that the casual reader is left with this idea that home brewing is all about buying packets and following instructions....
> 
> ...If I'm wrong I'm sure PoMo will correct me, but I doubt he was dissing extract brewers as such.
> 
> I thought the article was at least positive and fairly accurate - except the fact that it could so easily have been written 5 or even 10 years ago. The hobby has come a long way in that time and the 'cutting edge' is a bit more advanced these days.



Yes indeed, you read me right Wortgames. I think some kit brewers think "can of goop" is a derogatory term. Not at all, I used the term with affection 



Stuster said:


> Nice gown, PoMo. :lol:



OK Loretta. 

I didn't mean for my post to start a kit vs AG debate. I merely pointed out that the article presented a one-eyed view of the hobby. OK? Now can we get on with bagging Pat or something?


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## FazerPete (1/5/07)

Perhaps I'm just sensitive or need to get more sleep at night. Anway I've vented my spleen and am over it now so time for a homebrew...or can of rehydrated goo


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## Murray (1/5/07)

Harden up FazerPete, you won't get far in life if you need to start a confrontation everytime someone says something you don't like. 

As for the article, I thought it was pretty good though it is a shame that independents like G&G didn't get a mention, especially since they run demonstration brews etc. I'd rather see more promotion of legitimate beer appreciation than a focus on homebrewing though.


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## FazerPete (1/5/07)

Murray said:


> Harden up FazerPete, you won't get far in life if you need to start a confrontation everytime someone says something you don't like.



Funnily enough, I'm the least confrontational person I know but sometimes I feel I need to say something.
Thanks for the advice though and one day I really hope to get on in my career. I'm just an IT project manager for a large multi-national but I'll get there. :unsure:


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## PostModern (1/5/07)

FazerPete said:


> I'm just an IT project manager for a large multi-national but I'll get there. :unsure:



I'm an IT project manager for a large govt department. What's a project or a thread without controversy or misunderstandings, hey?

:beer:


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## FazerPete (1/5/07)

PostModern said:


> I'm an IT project manager for a large govt department. What's a project or a thread without controversy or misunderstandings, hey?
> :beer:


Absolutely. Having a rant on here saves doing it to your project team. <_<


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## therook (1/5/07)

FazerPete said:


> Absolutely. Having a rant on here saves doing it to your project team. <_<



I would be ranting at the team....  

If there anything like our I.T department which is a mult million dollor org which we built them a huge Data centre, handed it over to them and yep sure enough stuff things up....cant even run in a cat 5 cable 

rook


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## 3GumsBrewing (1/5/07)

PostModern said:


> I'm an IT project manager for a large govt department....
> :beer:



Bah, you two probably are PMBOK'ers. 
Give me PRINCE2 any day, less arguments, more time to


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## FazerPete (1/5/07)

davekate said:


> Bah, you two probably are PMBOK'ers.


How'd you guess?


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## Murcluf (1/5/07)

FazerPete said:


> Absolutely. Having a rant on here saves doing it to your project team. <_<



Know where your at, but its no use taking it out on those who aren't the cause of your frustration. Take it out on the pricks who are. from one IT project manager to another. 

You can make good friends and learn a lot over a beer here, at work you learn you have no friends and you can't have a beer while your there.


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## brettprevans (1/5/07)

davekate said:


> Bah, you two probably are PMBOK'ers.
> Give me PRINCE2 any day, less arguments, more time to



This is sooo off topic but... Gotta agree with davekate. No arguments with Prince2, you just chuck the 'Prince2 placemat' at em and say 'you've got to follow the process! PMBOK is too 'airey' but then again its only a set of principles not a process like Prince2. to get this back on topic. yes Prince2 is good cause it gives me more time to sit at my computer at work and write on AHB.

I was thinking of sending an email to the Epicure editor asking them to do a proper follow up story on HB. Incl K&K, AG, the lot. Who thinks that a good idea? On second thoughts its probably not. They might arse it up and make everyone look bad.


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## braufrau (1/5/07)

I hope all you manager types are maintaining gantt charts for your brewing like this one
http://beerandsausage.mabelst.info/Gantt%20Chart.html

otherwise things could get out of control!


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## FazerPete (1/5/07)

citymorgue2 said:


> I was thinking of sending an email to the Epicure editor asking them to do a proper follow up story on HB. Incl K&K, AG, the lot. Who thinks that a good idea? On second thoughts its probably not. They might arse it up and make everyone look bad.


Great idea! To get this completely back on topic, why doesn't someone who knows all aspects of brewing and can string 2 words together write up an article to send in. If you take all of the work out of it and invite them around for a few magnificent AG brews then how can they say no?

Obviously I'm disqualified on both counts  so are there any other volunteers?


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## brettprevans (1/5/07)

braufrau said:


> I hope all you manager types are maintaining gantt charts for your brewing like this one
> http://beerandsausage.mabelst.info/Gantt%20Chart.html
> 
> otherwise things could get out of control!


Nice. I Hadnt thought of the Gantt chart (god knows why). I might start using one. Cheers. If I was at home I could post the ridiculously long Excel spreadsheet i've got going, along with a seperate brewing notes document. I have a bit of an addictive personality and like to horde infomation. I have about 2GB of work emails from the past 3ys(most have no attachments or attachments over 1MB). SO my brewlogs are detailed with lots of pointless infomration like "I think I f*ked up this that or the other' note to self, dont do it while drinkning next time' etc. lots of pearls of wisdom.

EDIT - Im not qualified to do a proper letter/email. Im just a brewing shit kicker. Maybe someone like Doc?


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## drsmurto (1/5/07)

To add my 2c to the newly completed k&k vs AG debate - I find this site has an abundance of useful info for both the K&Kers and the AGers and all those in between (lest i offend any other group).

Whats more, I have found that the AGers have been very friendly towards us mere K&Kers in giving us useful tips on temp control, hops and spec malt addition to improve our beers and techniques. 

And to top it off it puts fellow brewers in touch with each other to organise to catch up, talk even more about brewing, sample brews, plan brews, ogle brewing bling and help each other improve our brews.

It has given me the confidence to step back and analyse every aspect of my brewing and improve it such that i am now ready to take the step to AG. All thanks to you lot. Group hug?! :huh: 

Single most useful website i have found. Fullstop.

Thanks all and lets keep up the help with the occasional rant (it would be boring without it....)

Cheers
DrSmurto


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## domonsura (1/5/07)

Walks into room.......broken chairs........smashed glass......piano player sobbing............WTF HAPPENED HERE??!?!
i MISSED the argument.......


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## devo (1/5/07)

domonsura said:


> Walks into room.......broken chairs........smashed glass......piano player sobbing............WTF HAPPENED HERE??!?!
> i MISSED the argument.......




my suicide beer vest went off


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## warrenlw63 (1/5/07)

:lol: Look what you've done Jihad Devo!!

The natives are now totally restless. :blink: 

Warren -


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## Wortgames (1/5/07)

warrenlw63 said:


> The natives are now totally restless. :blink:


Now you're talking Warren!


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## tangent (1/5/07)

> Oh and by the way tangent, if it wasn't for kit brewers do you think that there would be the selection of HB shops around (online or otherwise)? Do you think the prices would be the same? I don't think so.


I generally hate HB shops. (that excludes Craftbrewer) i like 25kg bags of malt, not ripoff tins of goo.


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## PostModern (1/5/07)

And Tangent is around to mop up the survivors.


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## domonsura (1/5/07)

no....NO...PLEASE!!!! (muffled gunshot) .....


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## hihosland (1/5/07)

And to think that I logged on to see if anyone had an opinion on barleycorn's process/system.
Thought that being between houses and somewhat strapped for time and space i might give it a go and take the product home in a corny or two.
instead all I got was Collingwood vs Carlton
or K&K vs AG 
same arguments
same result
cheers
keep drinking
am happily enjoying an all LME pilsner
Davidh


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## Back Yard Brewer (1/5/07)

tangent said:


> I generally hate HB shops. (that excludes Craftbrewer) i like 25kg bags of malt, not ripoff tins of goo.




I am one of the survivors from the gun blast that just went off. As for the "tins of goo" I tend to source out "goo" in bulk. It works out cheaper to buy "goo" this way. A hell of a lot cheaper. Having experimented with AG and can kits, I am now dabbling in extract brewing or "goo" brewing. Having a real "goo" of a time.

BYB


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## PostModern (1/5/07)

BYB said:


> I am one of the survivors from the gun blast that just went off. As for the "tins of goo" I tend to source out "goo" in bulk. It works out cheaper to buy "goo" this way. A hell of a lot cheaper. Having experimented with AG and can kits, I am now dabbling in extract brewing or "goo" brewing. Having a real "goo" of a time.
> 
> BYB



When I was partial mashing and K+K'ing, I found that bulk dried extract was easier to store and handle than bulk "goo". Was worth the extra $$

This thread is so far off topic...


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## Back Yard Brewer (1/5/07)

PostModern said:


> When I was partial mashing and K+K'ing, I found that bulk dried extract was easier to store and handle than bulk "goo". Was worth the extra $$
> 
> This thread is so far off topic...




Hmmm what was the topic. Ah here it is, I forgot that I had actually read it  http://www.theage.com.au/news/epicure/the-...7788007093.html


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## Weizguy (1/5/07)

Thank goodness that we found our way back to the topic.

Wasn't it about portraying brewers as haphazard, hectic, [email protected] alkys?

From the article:


> His discovery of boutique beer started when he accidentally bought an unusual dark beer


 How in the hell do you accidentally buy a beer, especially a wrong beer. Oooh, I was so drunk, I think I stumbled into a bottlo and lost my spare change all over the floor. Then I woke up in the park with a brown bag with a brown bottle of brown ale...not even my regular brand. And someone stole my smokes. Oh dear!

I feel it's true that a lot of brewers get amazingly penny-pinching in a lot of ways. I see it here and in other places, too. I work in a public service job, and the people there are taught to be frugal with government funds and they start acting like its their own money. Very sad to see.

I feel that these journos, who would probably suck your toes for a free beer, let alone a decent homebrew, need to know the home brew credo.
I'm happy to state it here, right now... *It's all about the beer*.

I didn't get that from reading the article. The brewers may have mentioned it, but it didn't translate into the article.

I could see that there was encouragement to produce all types of beer, but the reader was led to think that it could all be done from tins and bits. Maybe it can...initially, until one's tastebuds become aware of all the flavours that they should expect. I've made plenty of good beer from tins and dry or liquid extract, and am happy to share the little info I recorded at the time. No anti K&K bias here, but maybe anti-KKK :lol: 

I didn't read much about freshness in that article. Certainly, it could be added that home-beer is tastier because it's fresher than commercial, esp. imported beer. Maybe the freshness angle wasn't pushed because of previous comments about the featured brew shop.

It certainly appears to be entry-level article, being sold to neophytes; wanna-be [email protected]; aspiring snobs, with an eye and a tongue for flavour and value for money. Obviously we wouldn't do it (make beer at home) if there was no pay-off in terms of cost vs taste. If we could buy better for less, why bother?

Maybe the article _was_ written years ago, like the tone of the brew books mentioned above. Obviously, there would be updates to include recent characters, although they also may have been mythical.

My overall opinion is that the author was attempting to de-yobbify the homebrew mystique. The article was probably a fantasy piece for many readers, because (let us not forget the newspaper and city of origin) the readers are probably likely to shell out $$ for expensive imports or go to the local and talk about "that homebrewing article".

This has been an unpaid, un-endorsed and unsolicited critique of the linked newspaper article by a homebrewer who believes in something or other. Apathy, maybe?

Seth :beerbang:


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## PostModern (1/5/07)

Fresh, shmesh. Keep it for 6-12 months and it'll taste HEAPS better. Not like that 2 week old stuff at the pub.

Like every mainstream press homebrew article I've read, it oversimplifies the process to something people who actually brew don't recognise. The author is almost never a homebrewer and they take a word or a sentence from their source and emphasise it over everything else. By the time the article has gone thru the layers of editorial review, there's nothing left of what the brewers actually said anyway. I think FrazerPete was on the right track back there in post #48 when he said someone who brews should write an article, but I doubt any of the majors would be interested in said article. At best, they'd want to interview a brew shop owner, but the Age won't need that for at least another year, coz they've just done their quota for '07.

Anyway, I wonder how Scott Bell's brew would stand up against the BJCP guidelines for a Wit, seeing as he brews with extract. No >50% unmalted wheat possible with that process. We might see a whole bunch of disappointed, Hoegaarden swilling, aspiring beer snobs signing up with AHB for advice a month (or 6-12) down the track.

EDIT: That is is no way to be taken as a swipe at kit brewers again. I'm simply pointing out another inaccuracy in the article. It implies that you can brew a witbeer from a kit, and that can't be done. Orange and corriander flavoured wheat bber, sure, but a wit, no...


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## /// (2/5/07)

Les the Weizguy said:


> Thank goodness that we found our way back to the topic.
> 
> Wasn't it about portraying brewers as haphazard, hectic, [email protected] alkys?
> 
> From the article: How in the hell do you accidentally buy a beer, especially a wrong beer.



I tell that too myself everytime I buy XXXX - but i really know it comes from within...

Street Cred goooonnnneeee..... 

Scotty


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## milpod (2/5/07)

While i think the big boys want to tie homebrewers to their ingredients,i think proberly 20% step up to extract,partial and all grain,depending on time constraints.

Then with time constraints,comes area constraints and partner constraints.Money seems to fail as above,where beer bling is involved.

I'm more concerned about our government wanting money for what we do.AS in a yearly licence to brew.Unfortunately because it is getting media attention we will be targeted as a cash source.IMHO

Cheers


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## Chris (2/5/07)

[/quote]I'm more concerned about our government wanting money for what we do.AS in a yearly licence to brew.Unfortunately because it is getting media attention we will be targeted as a cash source.IMHO


> LOL, and then well have to outsmart the Excise man.
> I can imagine it now, brewing at midnight under a full moon in a swamp when Im raided.


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## milpod (2/5/07)

Much like the yanks i suspect.LOL

Hello I'm from the ATF,(guns drawn) where's your licence?






They still remember prohibition


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## PostModern (2/5/07)

milpod said:


> They still remember prohibition



And we still remember the Rum Rebellion.


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## Weizguy (2/5/07)

milpod said:


> Much like the yanks i suspect.LOL
> Hello I'm from the ATF,(guns drawn) where's your licence?
> They still remember prohibition


It is truly written: "Those who do not learn from history are condemned to repeat it".

Now, be quiet, and don't put ideas in those tiny minds (The Age's editors and our politicians).

The voice of dissent - Seth


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## blackbock (2/5/07)

I liked the bit about Bell's homebrew not being "overly bitter draught beer" and instead includes fruit.

Why does every new homebrewer feel the need to add @#$% fruit to their beer????


----------



## PostModern (2/5/07)

blackbock said:


> I liked the bit about Bell's homebrew not being "overly bitter draught beer" and instead includes fruit.
> 
> Why does every new homebrewer feel the need to add @#$% fruit to their beer????



And honey? Beez Neez comes out so every second new brewer is asking how much hiney to add to a beer! Sheesh. What's wrong with malt and hops, hey?


----------



## Weizguy (2/5/07)

PostModern said:


> And honey? Beez Neez comes out so every second new brewer is asking how much hiney to add to a beer! Sheesh. What's wrong with malt and hops, hey?


PoMo,
Maybe they're not "real beer" drinkers and have no place in the homebrew world, or maybe just a small niche.

What is this "hiney" of which you speak? Are you saying, in a Freudian way perhaps, that honey beer drinkers are gay?
Let your tastebuds out of the closet! :lol: 

Seth :lol:


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## Wortgames (2/5/07)

I don't think any of us would honestly have expected a thorough blow-by-blow account of the homebrewing process (or industry) from a mainstream newspaper though would we?

I think we're missing the point a bit - the article was essentially a positive spin on the hobby, it didn't make us all out to be pissheads and it played up the 'beer toff' angle. I think introducing yourself as a homebrewer to somebody who had read that article, would essentially be a more positive experience than introducing yourself as a homebrewer to someone who hadn't.

Yes, it would have been much better if it had at least touched on issues like all grain brewing, fresh ingredients and perhaps even the real ale revival - as I think without those points it paints an inaccurate (and dated) picture of the hobby.

But I can put up with a lack of detail in an article like this that is at least positive.


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## Ziggy (2/5/07)

WortGames said:


> I don't think any of us would honestly have expected a thorough blow-by-blow account of the homebrewing process (or industry) from a mainstream newspaper though would we?
> 
> I think we're missing the point a bit - the article was essentially a positive spin on the hobby, it didn't make us all out to be pissheads and it played up the 'beer toff' angle. I think introducing yourself as a homebrewer to somebody who had read that article, would essentially be a more positive experience than introducing yourself as a homebrewer to someone who hadn't.
> 
> ...



Yes, most of the people who have posted about this article have missed the point. As a non-home-brewer but a girl with some interest I was impressed by the story and decided to look on the net for a bit of extra info - which is how I stumbled across this forum. 
My god, I didn't realise home brewers were such a snobby lot. The Epicure story was in a mainstream newspaper which meant it had to appeal and be clear to people like me. Which it did. If you want to read all about the specifics of home brewing buy a trade mag. And leave those two boys featured in the article alone. At least they're keeping it real.
After reading some of these posts, I think I'll stick to wine.


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## DJR (2/5/07)

God, the article wasn't that bad was it?

I thought it was pretty positive and anything that brings new brewers to the craft is good - sure there was some parts that made my cringe (specifically putting Corona and Pure Blonde in the premium segment, but that is Foster's fault) and the journo really should have got more sources (i count only 4 sources)

I don't know if writing a full writeup about full mash brewing and all that would really garner much interest - taking 3-6 hours for a brew is not time everyone has.

Oh and btw Ziggy, i didn't take peoples criticism of the article as snobbery as you did, it's just a critique which basically brings home the point that you more rarely than not can get close to some styles of beer with a kit+kilo (especially Corona....). 

Fairfax really seems to be getting into it though, a month ago they had this in the SMH: http://blogs.smh.com.au/radar/archives/200...rink_to_th.html


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## Stuster (2/5/07)

Ziggy said:


> Yes, most of the people who have posted about this article have missed the point. As a non-home-brewer but a girl with some interest I was impressed by the story and decided to look on the net for a bit of extra info - which is how I stumbled across this forum.
> My god, I didn't realise home brewers were such a snobby lot. The Epicure story was in a mainstream newspaper which meant it had to appeal and be clear to people like me. Which it did. If you want to read all about the specifics of home brewing buy a trade mag. And leave those two boys featured in the article alone. At least they're keeping it real.
> After reading some of these posts, I think I'll stick to wine.



I don't think people were being snobby. It's just hard to see misleading information printed about a topic you love. I doubt you'd find that many brewers were snobby in person however it may come across to you in this thread (snobby beer drinkers is a different matter :lol: ).

I definitely agree with you that the article was probably pitched at the right level for its readers level of interest/knowledge about beer. It's not the most informed article you'll ever read about brewing, but it's positive about it and that's great.

Hopefully you'll give us and (more importantly) beer a try. People are so passionate about it because it's a fun, absorbing hobby with a great end result. :super:


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## brettprevans (2/5/07)

Ziggy said:


> Yes, most of the people who have posted about this article have missed the point. As a non-home-brewer but a girl with some interest I was impressed by the story and decided to look on the net for a bit of extra info - which is how I stumbled across this forum.
> My god, I didn't realise home brewers were such a snobby lot. The Epicure story was in a mainstream newspaper which meant it had to appeal and be clear to people like me. Which it did. If you want to read all about the specifics of home brewing buy a trade mag. And leave those two boys featured in the article alone. At least they're keeping it real.
> After reading some of these posts, I think I'll stick to wine.



Ziggy dont take it as snobbery. take it as a bunch of people utterly dedicated and passionate about their hobby. It just like Hohosland said 'its like arguing over which AFL team is better'.... Its all AFL in the end. And so it is with HB. In the end its just a bunch of guys and girls talking passionately about something they love. 

And dont just stick to wine. beer is good. I myself love wine, but beer also has a place in life. and what better way to enjoy it than to make your own. much simplier than making your own wine.

PS - Go Hawks!


----------



## PostModern (2/5/07)

Les the Weizguy said:


> What is this "hiney" of which you speak? Are you saying, in a Freudian way perhaps, that honey beer drinkers are gay?
> Let your tastebuds out of the closet! :lol:



However you spell it, honey or hiney it makes beer taste like arse 



Ziggy said:


> Yes, most of the people who have posted about this article have missed the point. As a non-home-brewer but a girl with some interest I was impressed by the story and decided to look on the net for a bit of extra info - which is how I stumbled across this forum.
> My god, I didn't realise home brewers were such a snobby lot. The Epicure story was in a mainstream newspaper which meant it had to appeal and be clear to people like me. Which it did. If you want to read all about the specifics of home brewing buy a trade mag. And leave those two boys featured in the article alone. At least they're keeping it real.
> After reading some of these posts, I think I'll stick to wine.



We're not snobby. I've met a lot of people thru brewing and of all people connected thru something like that, you get your good and your bad. Of homebrewers there are more good than bad. Brewers are generally friendly and helpful to a fault. 

I don't think anyone here is picking on the brewers in the article at all, just the article itself. You need to take this thread in its context, which is a forum of people who all know each other pretty well discussing an old and familiar topic: articles about something we're obsessed with written by a someone who has (apparently) only a passing experience with the hobby.



DJR said:


> Fairfax really seems to be getting into it though, a month ago they had this in the SMH: http://blogs.smh.com.au/radar/archives/200...rink_to_th.html



This article is only 1 page long and I reckon covers the state of the craft a lot better than the one in the Age. Just my opinion, tho.


----------



## tangent (2/5/07)

never heard of anyone that drinks wine being pretentious...


----------



## Wortgames (2/5/07)

DJR said:


> I don't know if writing a full writeup about full mash brewing and all that would really garner much interest - taking 3-6 hours for a brew is not time everyone has.


I wasn't suggesting a full writeup or even a 'promotion' of all-grain brewing - just a mention. What I think is a shame is that The Age's article leaves the perception of a clear divide between how 'real' brewers brew, and how 'home' brewers brew. It suggested that home brewers use packets, and try to 'emulate' real beer. That actually may not appeal to some people, whereas the idea that some home brewers brew using exactly the same raw ingredients as the world's finest breweries might have really sparked someone's interest.

The article wasn't a 'beginners guide' to homebrewing, it was about 'the home brew revolution', and as such it did miss an important issue in my opinion.



DJR said:


> Fairfax really seems to be getting into it though, a month ago they had this in the SMH: http://blogs.smh.com.au/radar/archives/200...rink_to_th.html


That SMH article did a much better job in a lot less space!


----------



## brettprevans (2/5/07)

WortGames said:


> QUOTE(DJR @ May 2 2007, 10:14 AM)
> Fairfax really seems to be getting into it though, a month ago they had this in the SMH: http://blogs.smh.com.au/radar/archives/200...rink_to_th.html
> 
> That SMH article did a much better job in a lot less space!



Agreed. Shame on my beloved Epicure. SMH showed them up. it addressed the crap perception that HB is akin to prohibition bathtubbing and foul tasting and gave people some sites to visit etc. good article.


----------



## Ziggy (2/5/07)

citymorgue2 said:


> Ziggy dont take it as snobbery. take it as a bunch of people utterly dedicated and passionate about their hobby. It just like Hohosland said 'its like arguing over which AFL team is better'.... Its all AFL in the end. And so it is with HB. In the end its just a bunch of guys and girls talking passionately about something they love.
> 
> And dont just stick to wine. beer is good. I myself love wine, but beer also has a place in life. and what better way to enjoy it than to make your own. much simplier than making your own wine.
> 
> PS - Go Hawks!


Ok, perhaps I misinterpreted some of the posts as being a bit snobbish. I understand you guys all know a heck of a lot more about beer than me. It just got my goat that the Age article genuinally tickled my interest about home brewing and I discovered this site and then just read a whole lot of negative posts about how the article "missed the point".
From my point of view it was a good overview of the home brewing revolution and profiled two blokes who clearly love their beer and are enthusiastic about it.


----------



## PostModern (2/5/07)

Ziggy said:


> the Age article genuinally tickled my interest about home brewing



So grab your credit card, head to your local homebrew shop and get started!


----------



## Darren (2/5/07)

Ziggy said:


> Ok, perhaps I misinterpreted some of the posts as being a bit snobbish. I understand you guys all know a heck of a lot more about beer than me. It just got my goat that the Age article genuinally tickled my interest about home brewing and I discovered this site and then just read a whole lot of negative posts about how the article "missed the point".
> From my point of view it was a good overview of the home brewing revolution and profiled two blokes who clearly love their beer and are enthusiastic about it.




Ziggy,

I guess what these guys here are saying is if you sample an all-grain beer yo will probably never drink "gloop", commercial beer or possibly wine again  

cheers

Darren


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## Thommo (2/5/07)

And fill in your location details.

This Saturday is International Home Brew Day. There may be someone holding a Big brew this weekend near you.

Cheers,
Thommo.


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## brettprevans (2/5/07)

Thommo said:


> And fill in your location details.
> 
> This Saturday is International Home Brew Day. There may be someone holding a Big brew this weekend near you.
> 
> ...



Anyone in Melbourne know of anything going on in Melbourne?


----------



## PostModern (2/5/07)

Darren said:


> Ziggy,
> 
> I guess what these guys here are saying is if you sample an all-grain beer yo will probably never drink "gloop", commercial beer or possibly wine again
> 
> ...



I'm a self-confessed AG snob, but I still won't turn back a well made kit beer, extract brew or (most) commercial beer. And the Mrs still gets the odd case of wine in, which I help drink. It's *all* good.


----------



## Wortgames (2/5/07)

Ziggy said:


> Ok, perhaps I misinterpreted some of the posts as being a bit snobbish. I understand you guys all know a heck of a lot more about beer than me. It just got my goat that the Age article genuinally tickled my interest about home brewing and I discovered this site and then just read a whole lot of negative posts about how the article "missed the point".
> From my point of view it was a good overview of the home brewing revolution and profiled two blokes who clearly love their beer and are enthusiastic about it.



Ziggy, if you haven't already, read the SMH article, you might be able to see what we're getting at regarding the difference. It's probably not much to an 'outsider', but the hobby gets us a bit of stick from time to time so we can be a bit sensitive about it. In fact, we're all very sensitive guys, just like the redhead poet in Bedazzled.

h34r: 

Another thing that didn't get a mention is the number of female brewers. There are a few of them on this site already (nobody's really sure, we think some of them are spies). The original brewers were women anyway. Then we realised that fire and shiney things were involved and took over.

Have a good look at some of the other threads and you'll see that the bickering is a small but entertaining part of the hobby. Then if you feel tempted to give it a bash (the brewing, not the bickering) we'll be only too glad to help you out.

:beer:


----------



## Wardhog (2/5/07)

PostModern said:


> I'm a self-confessed AG snob



I was starting to go this way, but then Wortgames gave me a glass of his toucan whatever-you'd-call-it. It was made from two cans of some lager goo, and it tasted quite good. Redefined my opinion of can-of-goo brews.
However, I still can't bring myself to enjoy can + dextrose/sugar brews.
I'm yet to taste a can + kilo DME brew, so I'll reserve judgement.


----------



## kabooby (2/5/07)

citymorgue2 said:


> Anyone in Melbourne know of anything going on in Melbourne?



Citymorgue,

Here is the list of registered sites. Most of them are in the US but you may find one down in Melbourne.

Kabooby


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## brettprevans (2/5/07)

Wardhog said:


> I was starting to go this way, but then Wortgames gave me a glass of his toucan whatever-you'd-call-it. It was made from two cans of some lager goo, and it tasted quite good. Redefined my opinion of can-of-goo brews.
> However, I still can't bring myself to enjoy can + dextrose/sugar brews.
> I'm yet to taste a can + kilo DME brew, so I'll reserve judgement.


Wardhog you dont live too far from me (im nunawading), so once Ive done a can + DME and another toucan I'll let you know and you can have a taste. They are still a couple f brews away cause I got get a few largers, pilsners etc done while the weather is colder.


----------



## brettprevans (2/5/07)

Kabooby12 said:


> Citymorgue,
> 
> Here is the list of registered sites. Most of them are in the US but you may find one down in Melbourne.
> 
> Kabooby


Cheers! fOund one! 

site#:224 | Montrose Brewing 
Montrose, Victoria Australia 
site type: residence 
email: [email protected] 
notes: 1st big brew day and 2nd lager/ bock for the southern winter that is approaching.


----------



## crozdog (2/5/07)

Ziggy,

if you are in Sydney, you're welcome to come over to my place on Saturday where a bunch of us are getting together to do an all grain brew, sample each others creations & shoot the breeze.

These gatherings are usually a mix of kit, extract, partial & all grain brewers, who share a common passion & love to swap hints & tips. Come on down & I'm sure you will learn a lot about the brewing process and practices as well as try some sensational beers which you just can't find in a shop.

Send me a PM (personal message) for my address or look it up on the big brewday site (site#187).

FWIW, I think the SMH article was more condensed & dare I say it - "balanced". B) 

An easy way to start in brewing is to go & buy the Coopers starter kit from Big W (or similar) is how many her got started. It has everything you need for your first brew at a reasonable price. Many of the bits you will re-use for subsequent brews - i still use 3/4 of the stuff. I know that many brew shops do starter kits as well so don't forget to check em out too - cause the decent ones will give you lots of advice as well as being a great place to chat ;-).

beers Crozdog


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## PostModern (2/5/07)

Wardhog said:


> I was starting to go this way, but then Wortgames gave me a glass of his toucan whatever-you'd-call-it. It was made from two cans of some lager goo, and it tasted quite good. Redefined my opinion of can-of-goo brews.
> However, I still can't bring myself to enjoy can + dextrose/sugar brews.
> I'm yet to taste a can + kilo DME brew, so I'll reserve judgement.



Hell dude. I'll drink 'em, I just don't brew 'em (I mean, I would if for instance I was almost out of beer and had no time to brew, but then I'd probably put a call in to Scotty for a wort kit). Some of my best friends are extract brewers. Even weirder, some of my friends are wine geeks!


----------



## Wortgames (2/5/07)

Wardhog said:


> I was starting to go this way, but then Wortgames gave me a glass of his toucan whatever-you'd-call-it. It was made from two cans of some lager goo, and it tasted quite good. Redefined my opinion of can-of-goo brews.


I should point out, too, that I was actually embarrassed to serve that to you Wardhog - I was really down to my homebrew 'shrapnel' that day!

It was a toucan of Bavarian Lager that I made before Christmas. The gravity was a bit high so I filled one of the big Grolsch 1.5L jobbies straight out of the tap to make room in the keg for some water. It had been in the fridge since, until you came over and I had nothing else to offer!

It was pretty flat, and probably a bit oxidised, but it was beer h34r:


----------



## Josh (2/5/07)

tangent said:


> how is this different to golf, or archery or whatever else?
> 
> its K&K that gives HB a bad name IMO


Not wanting to join in the argument, but here goes.

You can play your first game of golf for about $20 at a local public course with hire clubs. Even cheaper than brewing your first batch of beer.

If you don't get people into the hobby in the first place, you won't get them moving up to full boils and all grain. Baby steps people. If we all got to the AG level and there was no demand for extract, do you think they'd still be available? No. And then how do people get in at the ground floor? They can't.

Leave the K&Kers alone.


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## Lukes (2/5/07)

citymorgue2 said:


> Cheers! fOund one!
> 
> site#:224 | Montrose Brewing
> Montrose, Victoria Australia
> ...



*That's me*  .
Send me a PM If you want to come and check it out.
Early start @ 8-9 (not as early as some here) now that I have a timer and a mashmaster on the HLT.

Luke :super:


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## Barramundi (2/5/07)

funnily enough was in melbourne over the weekend and found this article and grabbed it to bring back and read.... was something in the herald sun about coopers and the coke into beer thing too late last week i think


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## tangent (2/5/07)

> You can play your first game of golf for about $20 at a local public course with hire clubs. Even cheaper than brewing your first batch of beer.



you can hire my can opener for $19, even cheaper than golf


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## braufrau (2/5/07)

crozdog said:


> An easy way to start in brewing is to go & buy the Coopers starter kit from Big W (or similar) is how many her got started. It has everything you need for your first brew at a reasonable price. Many of the bits you will re-use for subsequent brews - i still use 3/4 of the stuff. I know that many brew shops do starter kits as well so don't forget to check em out too - cause the decent ones will give you lots of advice as well as being a great place to chat ;-).



Ziggy,
that's good advice. That's how I started (except I used my husbands neglected kit). That was just over a year
ago and I'm now doing all sorts of unexpected things, and saying things like mash, sparge and krausen. 
A great deal of what I know about brewing came from help from the guys here.
Some of them are a bit snobby about beer (don't tell them I said that) but not snobby about people
and are very willing to help out a newbie.
Get a starter kit make some beer, ask questions, make more beer. Oh and drink it I suppose! 

-braufrau

Actually I am a spy and wortgames has blown my cover. Darn! Such an elaborate ruse and all!


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## NRB (2/5/07)

Which one of you clowns is Simon? :huh:


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## Back Yard Brewer (2/5/07)

WortGames said:


> Yes, it would have been much better if it had at least touched on issues like all grain brewing, fresh ingredients and perhaps even the real ale revival - as I think without those points it paints an inaccurate (and dated) picture of the hobby.



True, but like most things to much info can be a bad thing. It would seem gobly dook to someone wanting to dabble in brewing and may even scare them off. When I first started brewing a decade ago I did read articles in books about "mashing" but it all seemed to daunting back then. Now with sights like AHB life is a lot simpler. I was actually in my LHBS a few weeks back and there was a chap looking at getting into kegging so I put him onto AHB. What surprises me a little is why HBS don't do the same, you know put their customers onto sights like this and then get a cross section opinion.

BYB


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## PostModern (2/5/07)

BYB said:


> What surprises me a little is why HBS don't do the same, you know put their customers onto sights like this and then get a cross section opinion.



Depending on the business model of the HBS, I suppose. I know of one that is so dependent on his k+k customers and his own mastery of the kit, that he's afraid to tell his customers about the local brew club, in case they turn to the dark side. (Queue Scotty's Darth Vader post...)  Given the number of people who went from kits to mashing via AHB, I think some HBS's ~should~ be afraid if they don't want to stray from their Brewcraft rep.


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## /// (2/5/07)

PostModern said:


> (Queue Scotty's Darth Vader post...)



Would you care to remind us of this PoMo.

Scotty


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## PostModern (2/5/07)

/// said:


> Would you care to remind us of this PoMo.
> 
> Scotty


This post in the last silly k+k vs AG thread.



> Darth Vader: "SCCHHKKKKDDDDD, LUKE, FEEEEEELLLLLL THE FORCE LUKE, IT IS YOUR DESTINY"
> 
> Luke Skywalker: "I will never give into the Dark Side Father. Do HB shop owners who sell grain and those hop things have big knockers like the checkout chick at Woolies are on saturday when i head down and get me kit and kilo ....."
> 
> Darth Vader: "SCCHHKKKKDDDDD, LUKE, FEEL THE WARM GRAINS, SMELL THE BOIL, FEEL THE POWER OF THE DARK SIDE OF THE MASH LUKE, COME TO THE DARK SIDE LUKE .... COMMMMEEEE ... ITS EVERY KIT BREWERS DESTINY ..... FEEL THE FORCE .... SCCHHKKKKDDDDD ... THE FORCE ...."


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## domonsura (3/5/07)

My God that's a thread and a half isn't it....i feel somehow enlightened and weighed down all at the same time.... :huh:


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## AngelTearsOnMyTongue (3/5/07)

Oh thats great. I remember thatone.

Actually, now that i think of it, wouldnt R2D2 make a great Mash tun?

Or maybe a fermenter.

You could probably set the temp and leave him to do the rest.....even bottling.


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## Wardhog (3/5/07)

WortGames said:


> I should point out, too, that I was actually embarrassed to serve that to you Wardhog - I was really down to my homebrew 'shrapnel' that day!
> 
> It was a toucan of Bavarian Lager that I made before Christmas. The gravity was a bit high so I filled one of the big Grolsch 1.5L jobbies straight out of the tap to make room in the keg for some water. It had been in the fridge since, until you came over and I had nothing else to offer!
> 
> It was pretty flat, and probably a bit oxidised, but it was beer h34r:



You shouldn't have been embarrassed. It was a thoroughly enjoyable beer, it had a good amount of malt in it. I can't remember if you'd added any extra hops, but it sure was tasty.
Not that I have much experience with such things, but it put me in mind of how I think a good English ale would be.

It's going to be what I do when stocks are running low and there's no chance of time for an AG brew.


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