# Fed Square Micro Brew Showcase



## Leigh (15/3/10)

The Fed Square Micro-brewery showcase is on again this week http://www.fedsquare.com/index.cfm?pageID=207

*Where:* The Atrium

*When:* 17th and 18th March 2010

*Time:* 4.30pm - 8.00pm

*Tickets:* Tasting tickets $25 (plus $2 glass deposit), includes 20 tastings (60ml) and $5 food voucher.


So who's gonna be there?

I should get there Wednesday at opening (4:30)


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## bum (15/3/10)

Hmmm...might try to get to this one. Prob wait for wednesday's feedback and go thursday. Fed Square is a fair hike from Frankston.


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## manticle (15/3/10)

Working at fed square on Thursday. If I can hook myself up with a ticket I'll go.


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## BrenosBrews (15/3/10)

Haven't been to the last few as I was getting sick of the same beers each time pretty much. Heard good things about the last one so I'll probably head along to this one.


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## Siborg (15/3/10)

soooo want to go


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## Siborg (15/3/10)

anyone going on thursday... I'll most likely be going if anyone wants to meet up for a chat over a few tastings.


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## Fourstar (15/3/10)

manticle said:


> Working at fed square on Thursday. If I can hook myself up with a ticket I'll go.






Siborg said:


> anyone going on thursday... I'll most likely be going if anyone wants to meet up for a chat over a few tastings.




See you both there on thursday... you all know what i look like!


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## bum (15/3/10)




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## Fourstar (15/3/10)

bum said:


>



Turn that frown upside down. see you too on thursday!  

"Love to have a beer with Bum, cos bum is me mate!"


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## bum (15/3/10)

Only joking, man. I always find net meetups a tad awkward anyway.

Bloody work might have put the mozz on this one. I probably won't be a starter.


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## manticle (15/3/10)

I'm a definite for thursdauy so see you there 4*.

Anyone else from here going on thursday - I have a series of wasps tattooed on my inner forearm which is possibly the best easiest way to identify me. Off screen name is Andrew - say hello.


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## Siborg (16/3/10)

manticle said:


> I'm a definite for thursdauy so see you there 4*.
> 
> Anyone else from here going on thursday - I have a series of wasps tattooed on my inner forearm which is possibly the best easiest way to identify me. Off screen name is Andrew - say hello.


I've met 4* before... I'll look for him.

What time are you guys aiming to get there?


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## Wolfy (16/3/10)

bum said:


> Hmmm...might try to get to this one. Prob wait for wednesday's feedback and go thursday. Fed Square is a fair hike from Frankston.


Sounds like a good idea ... now who can we find to go on Wed and report back?


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## Kleiny (16/3/10)

manticle said:


> I'm a definite for thursdauy so see you there 4*.
> 
> Anyone else from here going on thursday - I have a series of wasps tattooed on my inner forearm which is possibly the best easiest way to identify me. Off screen name is Andrew - say hello.



But your skinny and could be hiding behind a straw.  

I wish i could get to this but im flying out for the big Brisbane Party.

Have a good time

Kleiny


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## Leigh (16/3/10)

Nice guys! I start this thread and none of ya's are going to join me tomorrow night 

Don't think you'll get a _report back_ either


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## andycostin (16/3/10)

Think I'm in for Thursday night too, but I don't know any of you lads yet.... Will be fun walking around asking just under 600 people what their names are....


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## manticle (16/3/10)

Kleiny said:


> But your skinny and could be hiding behind a straw.



Are you insinuating I would drink beer with a straw?


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## bum (16/3/10)

Leigh said:


> Nice guys! I start this thread and none of ya's are going to join me tomorrow night
> 
> Don't think you'll get a _report back_ either


 Work has put a spanner in the works well and truly so Thursday is out for me. _If_ I can make it it'll be tomorrow. If I can be arsed jumping on a train after work and cashing in some brownies points wtih SWMBO for a random lift home (not a native driver).


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## bum (17/3/10)

OMG! I might have convinced SWMBO to actually go.

Some of you might see this as a bad idea - the rest of you will see the opportunity for two tasting tickets.

Should be there about 6 if the wheels don't fall off. I'll be the one with two glasses in each mouth standing next to the really bored woman.


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## Leigh (17/3/10)

LOL I'm heading down now, will be the one in business attire h34r:


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## haysie (17/3/10)

I`ll be there Thursday. :chug:


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## Fourstar (17/3/10)

haysie said:


> I`ll be there Thursday. :chug:




see you there haysie! :icon_drunk:


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## Wolfy (17/3/10)

Leigh said:


> Nice guys! I start this thread and none of ya's are going to join me tomorrow night
> 
> Don't think you'll get a _report back_ either


Just got home, and lucky you said hi since I'd have no idea who anyone one else was. 

Highlights for me:
Bridge Road Brewers - Biere de Garde
True South - Summer Ale (Kolsch) (and the friendly people at their stand)
Mildura Brewery - Storm Cloudy Ale
Matilda bay Garage - Big Helga
and Red Duck Brewery - 4 Ducks Strong Belgium (simply because it was so strong and out there).
Also Prickly Moses - Summer Ale (but maybe just because I got a new hat to go with it).

It was also an attempt introduce my son (who turned 18 earlier this month) to a few beers other than mega-swill, which was not overly successful (either too many hops (Arctic Fox, Holgate) or too much yeasty/esters (3 Ravens, Sweetwater, Coldstream) according to his uneducated-beer-tastebuds, but I did end up with 1/2 his tasting book to try a few more for myself. 

All-in-all it was an interesting enough experience and glad we went, just wish I had known the liquor license (for many of the vendors) expired at 8pm, because I was planning to make a last visit to a couple on the way out the door.


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## bum (18/3/10)

I just got home too. I'll save the beer reviews for tomorrow perhaps (ended up in Mrs Parma's afterwards too, not sure my reviews might be worth much right now).

Some observations for tomorrow's attendees:
Don't get there an hour and a half after your intended ETA and break the land speed record with your tickets.
Get there as early as you can. Not because of the lines or the above point. Was never more than two people back all night. More because once it gets to about seven the place is packed with people who will only stand in the middle of walkways (in groups) and talk about how "This pilsner really tastes like honey. No. I Like it!"
Grand Ridge do not have any Supershine for tasting at their stall but I was able to persuade him (Eric?) to open a single bottle at 7:55. Give it a crack if interested.
Don't take your missus if she doesn't drink beer (unless you have time to drink 2 lots of tasters).
Do not expect anyone to take any risks. I almost congratulated Holgate for putting out their Hopinator and Temptress. I think I saw one stout. One Saison. One supposed Kolsch. Pale ales (these were usually described as being English (you can taste crystal) or American (didn't taste the the 'English' offerings of other vendors)) and Pilsners as far as the eye can see .
If Tooborac's Pale Ale isn't infected it may as well be. Actually heard the brewer tell someone he didn't like it anymore.


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## Melthar (18/3/10)

Highlights

Arctic Fox American Pale Ale, seems to be different hops to the standard APA, quite tasty. Loved the hop bines that they had behind their stall and the glass filled with hop cones, a nice touch.

Toorabuc (sp) Amber. Didn't try their pale, but found this quite tasty.

Mountain goat Rapunzel: Seems pretty much true to style, reminds me somewhat of Duvel.

Holgate Hoppinator: Double IPA, quite smooth bitterness, nicer flavour than the mountain goat IPA

Matilda Bay Alpha Pale: Always been a fan, but supposedly the one on tap at the show was unfiltered, and it was definitely quite tasty







Ended up at Mrs Parmas afterwards where I gave the Flying Horse Dirty Angel a shot (drinkable, but not overly special) and a very tasty Moroccan Meatball parma. This one seems to be new(ish) on the menu and made for a damn good feed.


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## bum (18/3/10)

Melthar said:


> Ended up at Mrs Parmas afterwards where I gave the Flying Horse Dirty Angel a shot (drinkable, but not overly special) and a very tasty Moroccan Meatball parma. This one seems to be new(ish) on the menu and made for a damn good feed.


 
I found my way to Mrs Parma's after tea and I have to say that the Dirty Angel did not measure up to my previous experiences. Most likely something to do with drinking 20 different beers prior. I did mumble something about dirty lines to SWMBO though. 

Yeah, the Moroccan Meatball one was nice (though not nearly Moroccan enough, really). 

Here's a brief rundown of the beers I had at the showcase that I bashed out very late last night for another forum. In the harsh light of day I probably stand by most of it (but if I could be arsed I'd probably re-word it). 



> Arctic Fox American Pale Ale - smelled great, tasted...not as good as mine.
> Bridge Road Celtic Red - way too sweet for me.
> Bright Brewery Staircase Porter - Meh.
> Coldstream Naked Ale - Serviceable pale ale that did nothing to distinguish itself from basically every other PA there.
> ...


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## Leigh (18/3/10)

Was good having a yarn to Woofy.

Also found myself back at Mrs Parmas afterwards for a few more beers and some food.

Standouts for me:

True South Red Truck Lager - very drinkable, best of the bunch I tasted.
Hawthorn Premium Pale - Best Pale Ale I had, very impressed. Shame they didn't have their new Amber for tasting
Prickly Moses Organic Larger (sic) - a full flavoured lager
Arctic Fox APA - good example of an APA, and a much higher standard of beer than the other two offered by Arctic
Coldstream Naked Ale - interesting reading bum's comments, the person serving told me this was an English Bitter? I thought it was quite good.


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## bum (18/3/10)

Leigh said:


> Coldstream Naked Ale - interesting reading bum's comments, the person serving told me this was an English Bitter? I thought it was quite good.


 
I spoke to one of the guys about this one too (as the name didn't really give anything away). He did say something about English Bitter but then he went on a bit to say things (which the alcohol fairy seems to have taken from me - better go check under my pillow for some cash) that seemed to me to dilute that position somewhat. I do remember drinking it and thinking it was not much like any English Bitter I've had before and it did seem more PA-like to me. Didn't mean to deliberately miss-categorise it. Might have been a little harsh on it but it wasn't remarkable in any way for me. By no means a bad beer. The only bad beers were the ones that actually say something terribly negative. The selection on hand was generally very safe.


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## Fourstar (18/3/10)

bum said:


> Do not expect anyone to take any risks. I almost congratulated Holgate for putting out their Hopinator and Temptress. I think I saw one stout. One Saison. One supposed Kolsch. Pale ales (these were usually described as being English (you can taste crystal) or American (didn't taste the the 'English' offerings of other vendors)) and Pilsners as far as the eye can see .




What do you mean by 'risks'? Non stereotypical styles? Usually there are a few stouts, (mussel stout last time) and i think 3 ravens had something oak aged too. Was there alot of yellow 'fairy' beer?


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## bum (18/3/10)

Fourstar said:


> What do you mean by 'risks'? Non stereotypical styles? Usually there are a few stouts, (mussel stout last time) and i think 3 ravens had something oak aged too. Was there alot of yellow 'fairy' beer?


 
I dunno if I'd go so far as to say 'fairy'. I would definitely say there was a focus on 'sessionable'. Lots of pales and pilsners. A few ambers floating around. Holgate, 3 Ravens and Grand Ridge were basically the only ones to buck this trend. Points to Mountain Goat for bring Rapunzel, I don't blame them for me not liking it. Actually, Matilda Bay probably mixed it up a bit (and one of the few to bring in their full range) but I didn't go to their table - specifically wanted to try stuff I can't just get an Uncle Dan's.


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## HoppingMad (18/3/10)

Just goes to show we all have different tastebuds!  

I reckon this showcase was not as good as the last one, and was surprised at the number of flawed beers being handed out. Particularly Pale/Summer Ales and Pilseners. Some minor issues, others very noticeable. Was quite strange. I guess lagers/lighter styles are hard to get right at the best of times, and maybe the best stuff was Fresh on the Tuesday before some heat got to the kegs at Fed Square.

The good:
- Sweetwater Brewery (Mt Beauty) - Great Porter and Weissebeer. The weissebeer was a cracker. Great example of the style and beautifully clean, great banana & clove. Porter good choc malt and roast barley balance.
- Alpha Pale Ale (Matilda Bay) - The highlight of the showcase. Spoke to the guys about it and they said that the tapped version they had was 'un-pasteurised', so everything in it was very fresh and it hadn't been heat treated, dulling off the hops. Tasted like huge american cascade heavily dry-hopped. A bit like a randalised beer - was awesome.
- Ranga (new red beer by bearings) - Very light and clean, orange colour and light american hop aroma. Very refreshing. Other brewers with me weren't blown away by it and found it thin - but considering I've drunk some shite from Bearings in the past when they were starting out this one impressed me.
- 3 ravens - always good beers, wanted to try their smoke beer but they'd run out early, their 55 apa was excellent. The Black is always a good one.

The surprises:
- Arctic Fox - Hated their lager on a previous occaision but their new APA brings them back in. I had written these guys off - looks like they can make beer. Yummy hops and well balanced beer.
- Prickly Moses - Last time they had terribly bland farmhouse beers, this time they redeemed themselves with an excellent stout and their organic beer is very unusual and just new. Had a weird honey/woody flavour which was unusual but different. 
Some thought it was a flaw but it definately wasn't. They must be using an interesting adjunct or grain here. Gave them marks for pushing the envelope.

The bad/indifferent:
- True South Summer Ale - infected with butterscotch flavours. Feel terrible dissing the beer as admire the head brewer and what she has acheived. Their Red Truck Lager was excellent though, a great red beer - their Dark Ale very thin and had american hops - more like an american brown but a very soft version. These guys look promising, and the Red redeemed them, but reckon it will take time to iron out the issues in their new brewpub in Brighton and experiment a little with the beers. Another homebrewer described their selection as 'safe' but I guess their clientelle is in Brighton so that is to be expected. Reckon these guys will get better, so I will be trying their stuff again for sure.

- Buckleys - The guy is lovely and a great sales person, but every showcase I've been to the beers have had flaws (mainly sourness). I told a mate to steer clear on past experience, he ignored me and tried it and sure enough it was disappointing (think it was original ale). Spoken to other people about Buckleys and they say the only good beer they ever made was a Bock and you can't get it anymore. Which is a shame. The bloke who runs Buckleys is very passionate about the craft, but for some reason something is going wrong here with process or storage.

- 3 Troupers - Tried both and both had minor ferment flaws. Amber had sour nose and pilsener had some acetyl and slight sulphur. Unfortunate because have had them at Purvis Cellar tastings and enjoyed their beers previously.

Hopper.


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## bum (18/3/10)

It's looking like I'm Robinson Crusoe on Arctic Fox's APA. I just want to qualify my statement in regard to it. It does not have the flaws present that my APAs do. But my APAs taste largely of how they smell and for me this one just didn't present like that. It was far from being a bad beer but I was excited after smelling it and felt the flavour was something of a let down. I do hope the beer does well though if it opens up the market to more proper APAs. Lots of breweries around that _say_ they make APAs...


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## Fourstar (18/3/10)

HoppingMad said:


> The bad/indifferent:
> - True South Summer Ale - infected with butterscotch flavours. Feel terrible dissing the beer as admire the head brewer and what she has acheived.
> 
> - 3 Troupers - Tried both and both had minor ferment flaws. Amber had sour nose and pilsener had some acetyl and slight sulphur. Unfortunate because have had them at Purvis Cellar tastings and enjoyed their beers previously.




Infected w/butterscotch = not infected. Well atleast unlikely. Moreso an issue with Diacetyl production and lack of reabsorbtion by the yeast. Who knows, the funny temps this week cound have kicked the beer into some secondary fermentation in the keg and hasnt managed to soak up the diacetyl. I am eager to try their beers as Sams reputation is well regarded. Will report back if i notice any funk or excessive diacetyl as you have described.


3 troupers being a failure! Damn that sucks! I will have another try tonight. I really love their bers when ive had them, especially the pilsner. Probably one of the best locally made Bohemian Pilsners IMO.


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## bum (18/3/10)

Hopping I also disliked True South's Summer Ale but I have to say Three Trouper's Pale Ale was decent. I enjoyed it anyway. It looks like that one might not have been on when HoppingMad visited their table though. 

[EDIT - apologies to both HoppingMad and Leigh for somehow getting them mixed up]


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## reVoxAHB (18/3/10)

bum said:


> If Tooborac's Pale Ale isn't infected it may as well be. Actually heard the brewer tell someone he didn't like it anymore.
> Tooborac Stomemasons Pale Ale - Tipped it - possibly infected.



You've piqued my curiosity on this beer. I'll pop down tonight and see if I can identify a fault, or infection. 
No affil, just curious.

reVox


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## Fourstar (18/3/10)

reVox said:


> You've piqued my curiosity on this beer. I'll pop down tonight and see if I can identify a fault, or infection.
> No affil, just curious.
> 
> reVox



Might keep a ticket spare for this one too! Some good practice for BJCP.


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## bum (18/3/10)

Happy to be corrected - I'd hate to be spreading harmful info like that if it is not the case. Either way it tasted disgusting.

I definitely did hear the brewer himself tell a visitor to his table that he didn't like the pale. I agree with him completely.


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## Leigh (18/3/10)

Didn't get to the three troupers table bum.

The Tooborac Pale Ale was drinkable, but not as good as a Kooi or the Hawthorn. Tipped their amber as it tasted sickly sweet and burnt. The Ranga was a drinkable "safe" red. True Souths summer ale and pils didn't gel with my taste buds at all. Bright Breweies "Bright Lager" was full of yeast and just tasted like drinking a starter, their blowhard PA was OK, but again not as good as Kooi or Hawthorn. 

I tried to get some hints as to what was in the Prickly Moses Organic as it was a very good drop, and I'd like to brew something similar...but they were very tight lipped...


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## bum (18/3/10)

Sorry, Leigh. And apologies to Hopping Mad too. Was going from memory and must have had a brain fart or something. Will edit accordingly.


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## kevin_smevin (18/3/10)

Leigh said:


> Didn't get to the three troupers table bum.
> 
> The Tooborac Pale Ale was drinkable, but not as good as a Kooi or the Hawthorn. Tipped their amber as it tasted sickly sweet and burnt. The Ranga was a drinkable "safe" red. True Souths summer ale and pils didn't gel with my taste buds at all. Bright Breweies "Bright Lager" was full of yeast and just tasted like drinking a starter, their blowhard PA was OK, but again not as good as Kooi or Hawthorn.
> 
> I tried to get some hints as to what was in the Prickly Moses Organic as it was a very good drop, and I'd like to brew something similar...but they were very tight lipped...



The bright lager is an unfiltered lager, hence the yeast i guess.


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## Fourstar (18/3/10)

yum yum yum said:


> The bright lager is an unfiltered lager, hence the yeast i guess.




still, shoudnt be served like that.


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## brettprevans (18/3/10)

no Grand Ridge _Gippsland Diacetyl _ beer being served?

bugger i couldnt go. sounds like there was a few beers i would have liked and havenbt tasted yet.


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## bum (18/3/10)

citymorgue2 said:


> no Grand Ridge _Gippsland Diacetyl _ beer being served?
> 
> bugger i couldnt go. sounds like there was a few beers i would have liked and havenbt tasted yet.


 I went to their table 3 times and each time the person in front of me was getting the Gold.


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## Fourstar (18/3/10)

bum said:


> I went to their table 3 times and each time the person in front of me was getting the Gold.




unless you love werthers original, their wheat is the only thing worth drinking. I'll have one of the diacetyl range and thats enough for me. I'f i wanted some buttered toast, i'd go make some at home.


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## bum (18/3/10)

It hurts me to say this (because I've been burned too many times) but I did really enjoy their Moonshine Dark Scotch Ale. Of course I am only now starting to warm up to these darker beers so it could very well be far from a good example.


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## Fourstar (18/3/10)

bum said:


> It hurts me to say this (because I've been burned too many times) but I did really enjoy their Moonshine Dark Scotch Ale. Of course I am only now starting to warm up to these darker beers so it could very well be far from a good example.




Dont let haysie hear you say that. Watching him cringe on every sip (maple too) at beerfest was a funny sight to see.


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## bum (18/3/10)

I'll see if I feel that same after I try one obtained through normal channels and one not direct from the brewery.


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## Leigh (18/3/10)

No apology needed bum.

The brewer told me he had batches of the Bright Lager that were 7 weeks old and clearer, but he was saving them for other events that were coming up, so brought the relatively green 4 week old batch...I don't filter any of my beers, but they are all clearer than that!


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## Maple (18/3/10)

Fourstar said:


> Dont let haysie hear you say that. Watching him cringe on every sip (maple too) at beerfest was a funny sight to see.






bum said:


> I'll see if I feel that same after I try one obtained through normal channels and one not direct from the brewery.


OMG that beer was bad. Not big on sweets or dessert type things, and this could have been poured over ice-cream to sweeten it up...urrgghh, I hate butterscotch. And that was at the brewery, doesn't get more direct than that.


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## bum (18/3/10)

Hmmm...I really didn't get any diacetyl from it. Would have had about 10 already by this point so maybe I missed it due to a bit of palate fatigue?

Or maybe the brewery has finally started listening to what everyone says? 

Will definitely try to seek out a bottle and see if I change my mind.


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## Fourstar (18/3/10)

Leigh said:


> The brewer told me he had batches of the Bright Lager that were 7 weeks old and clearer, but he was saving them for other events that were coming up, so brought the relatively green 4 week old batch...I don't filter any of my beers, but they are all clearer than that!




Doesnt help if they are keg conditioned, transportaion is a bitch for stirring up sediment.


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## Fourstar (18/3/10)

well, about to finish work! See you all there!


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## HoppingMad (18/3/10)

Agree with the comments on the Bright Brewery beer - the nose on one of them wasn't great. It was very hot in the atrium last night and hot during the day so this could have played a factor. Bridge Road I didn't even get to try as they were having issues with their keg gear which was a shame. 

Like I said previously my comments weren't put out there to diss brewers like Sam Fuss as I really enjoyed the Red Truck, just disappointed with the Summer Ale. A guy with me was doing the BJCP course and another has already done it, and they are way more experienced than myself. They confirmed the butterscotch flaw. No biggie, and I didn't drink all the True South beers, only 3 (Red Truck, Dark Ale, and Summer). So can't comment on all and my opinion on the earlier post should be taken in that context. The other two I had were without issue.

As I pointed out, these start up breweries sometimes have to find their feet just like a new AG brewer does, and this takes time. Big improvers were Arctic Fox and Prickly Moses. I had all but written these guys off at the last showcase after disappointing beers but both are putting out some very good new brews.

On the subject of Grand Ridge, I agree with some of the posts about their brewery's issues (re: diacetyl) after going to the Brewery for Beerfest. But don't write them all off. Yes the Gippy Gold has been a shocker of late, but the Moonlight (their old Nut Brown Ale with reduced alcohol) I have drunk on several occasions and it is great. Also had it up there and most there thought it was a goodie.

I guess all we can take from this is that the commercial guys can encounter similar sort of issues in the brewroom as we all do.

Cheers :icon_cheers: 

Hopper.


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## haysie (18/3/10)

2 questions please,

The TUCKER? is it any good or should it be avoided? The good wife is in tow.

Does the good wife have to pay for tasting`s albeit she wont want them?
Thanks


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## bum (18/3/10)

haysie said:


> 2 questions please,
> 
> The TUCKER? is it any good or should it be avoided? The good wife is in tow.
> 
> ...


 
I saw the food and decided not to partake. Didn't have time anyway.

Your missus can get in without a tasting ticket. I asked and they were cool with my SWMBO coming in free.


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## HoppingMad (18/3/10)

haysie said:


> 2 questions please,
> 
> The TUCKER? is it any good or should it be avoided? The good wife is in tow.
> 
> ...



$5 meal voucher gets you a gourmet sausage in a bun or a bocastle pie. Thai Chicken was good, mate had the lamb & veg. Pretty much the best pies you can get in Vic. But the food is not the main attraction really!  

Saw a heavily pregnant woman without a tasting glass last night. Reckon she didn't pay. But the girls on the counter have a bit of a 'door wench' attitude so you might be pushing it uphill. But try it on. - Edit - Bum says it's cool so it is - you're clear then!

Enjoy!

Hopper.


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## haysie (18/3/10)

Cheers guys, On my way>>>>>>


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## Wolfy (18/3/10)

HoppingMad said:


> $5 meal voucher gets you a gourmet sausage in a bun or a bocastle pie. Thai Chicken was good, mate had the lamb & veg. Pretty much the best pies you can get in Vic. But the food is not the main attraction really!


I had the 'special' Guinness-pie and it went down quite well, however my son said it was exactly the same (even down to the green sprinkles ontop) as what he buys in the Supermarket where he works.
As well as the sausages at the front and pies in the middle, there was also Lasagna being served at the table outside Beer DeLuxe.


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## andycostin (18/3/10)

Unfortunately work beckoned till just now lads, so I won't make it...

Enjoy the beers for me!


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## reVoxAHB (18/3/10)

bum said:


> If Tooborac's Pale Ale isn't infected it may as well be. Actually heard the brewer tell someone he didn't like it anymore.
> Tooborac Stomemasons Pale Ale - Tipped it - possibly infected.





reVox said:


> You've piqued my curiosity on this beer. I'll pop down tonight and see if I can identify a fault, or infection.
> No affil, just curious.
> 
> reVox


Alright, just in and Tooborac's Stonemasons Pale was not infected. If I had to nitpick, and bearing in mind I'm applying hyper-critical attention, it had a touch of diacetyl in mouth-feel reflected in slickness at head and surface appearance. I did not pick up atypical butterscotch, etc. in aroma or flavour, fwiw. And, as point of mention, I swapped my glass at the entrance for a freshie before trying the beer, specifically with this reply in mind.

That aside, it's a very pedestrian pale. No more, no less.

bum, you might have had a bad keg, lines were fouled, who knows? It's not far-fetched to think someone from Tooborac hit this thread late last night and swapped kegs for tonight's tasting. Like brewing, multiple-variables are at play and what you tasted last night (or the bottle before me as we stand in line at the next stall over) could be a totally different experience. And then you get into interpretation of flavours, sensitivity, experience, etc. but anyway, I'll stand on record as emphatically stating their beer was not [email protected] approx. 7:15PM 18.03 

I dug the Coldstream elderflower summer ale just because it was something different. The elderflower only came in at finishing and wasn't overly floral or spicy. It was interesting. 

Fosters Alpha Pale unfiltered had everything going for it.. bitey, chewey, hoppy ugly goodness in the glass. Head was awesome from ridiculously high resins. 

And sorry folks, the Arctic Fox APA suxors. This isn't their redeeming beer. Too much calcium.. Initial flavour was on par with APA, to a wall of salt which hit a 5 to 10 second plateau (and felt like 30), to pure bitterness. It's fine the beer has dimension and hey, the salt puts it outside of the pack. It doesn't hit a mark, and if all you remember is a wall of bitterness, so be it. The beer waffles all over the place. Not exemplary of a showcase beer. 

Interested to hear your take fourstar. 

Cheers
reVox


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## bum (18/3/10)

reVox said:


> bum, you might have had a bad keg, lines were fouled, who knows? It's not far-fetched to think someone from Tooborac hit this thread late last night and swapped kegs for tonight's tasting. Like brewing, multiple-variables are at play and what you tasted last night (or the bottle before me as we stand in line at the next stall over) could be a totally different experience. And then you get into interpretation of flavours, sensitivity, experience, etc. but anyway, I'll stand on record as emphatically stating their beer was not [email protected] approx. 7:15PM 18.03


 Very well, I unreservedly withdraw my claims of infection and apologise to all (especially the brewery). But I would like to go on record saying that the impression I got was much worse than the flaws you've described. I will go on further to say that I'm not sure the impression I got from the glass served can entirely be blamed on preference or lack of experience/knowledge. I'm coming to understand very clearly the difference between what I dislike and what is bad (it's kinda like the old "I don't know much about art but I know what I like" but in reverse. I could see nothing positive in this beer. It does seem as though I bashed a great many beers above but at the time I pointed out everything positive and negative I could about each beer to SWMBO (much to her chagrin). I really do feel that my impression of this one goes beyond just not being a fan.


reVox said:


> And sorry folks, the Arctic Fox APA suxors.


 Thank Christ for that. I was beginning to feel like I was taking crazy pills.

[EDIT: Didn't mean to suggest that there aren't broad gaps in my experience and knowledge - there are. Thanks very much for taking the time to address this, reVox. It all helps me learn more.]


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## manticle (18/3/10)

Highlights: Holgate hopinator and porter (temptress). Nut brown was reasonably palatable though enjoyed much, much later in the night. Temptress was chocolate and more chocolate.

Chevalier saison - late in the night with much on the palate going on but seemed in my limited experience to be tangy, wheaty and fresh tasting. Had a couple.

Prickly moses stout: just nice and smooth, quite light in body

3 ravens oatmeal stout - usually enjoy 3 ravens. Reasonably consistent, this stout was smooth and tasty.


OK

Red duck porter
Red duck belgian (although the fact that it's not actually belgian is a personal gripe)
Coldstream - something dark and probably a porter. Enjoyed about half way through the night while trying to talk about non-beer nerd stuff to non beer nerd but beer loving friends of mine and beer nerd stuff to beer nerd peoples I know and not actually look like a nerd to any of them. I think I failed on all counts.
True south dark ale - from memory, reasonable but not oustanding.
Trues south kolsch was ok. Quite sweet. Supposedly a mix btween wheat and kolsch. Never had a traditional kolsch, wasn't much like a wheat but still an ok beer.

Undrinkable: 

Mountain Goat Rapunzel. Hard to say as I've enjoyed every other mountain goat I've ever tried. The others available I'd sampled previously and the rapunzel was on tap. To complete the picture, it was actually the first beer I tried and I had to tip it out. The lady serving (possibly a brewer) made a weak suggestion that she liked it but that she enjoyed belgian blondes. I tried not to be a beer wanker and just agreed that I also like belgian blondes but that that was just way too yeasty. She said the information/criticism was useful. Seriously like a big glass of yeast but I would happily recommend mountain goat beers in the main. I will be going to the brewery for beer and pizza soon and I will drink every other beer they have except this one.

Arctic Fox English pale. Tried their lager last year. Possibly because my expectations were low (marketting looked like microbrewed megaswill) I was pleasantly surprised with the lager. Marketting or not, I could finish the glass and not grimace. English pale this year was less successful. Tipped

Bright brewery porter. Some great porters at the showcase. Not this one. Tipped.

Not tried (deliberately) 
Buckleys (tried once and horrible, never heard a good thing).
Matilda Bay (tried most, some bad, some ok but just don't rock my world thankyou Fosters). Why do fosters have a representation in a micro showcase anyway?
Grand ridge (tried most of them previously, mostly with good results)

Not tried (not deliberate):

Hawthorn
Toobarac
Mildura
Southern Bay
Sweetwater


Some nice beers out there and some pretty bad ones. We have a long way to go but we are also having a crack. I just wish some of the brewers would taste the beers before serving and not pretend that yeasty, buttercotch and vegemite revoltingness is a necessary part of the profile.

Would have liked to see kooinda and white rabbit there as I've enjoyed their beers each time i've tried them.


Nice to meet siborg, nice to see 4* again.


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## bum (18/3/10)

manticle said:


> I think I failed on all counts.


 
Don't feel bad. I couldn't even _read_ the previous sentence. Glad to see I'm not on my own about Rapunzel.


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## HoppingMad (18/3/10)

Geez. There you go. Different strokes for different folks in the tastebud stakes.  
I thought the Arctic Fox APA was good, but did try it first, it was stinkin' hot and I was craving a bevvie. (what does calcium taste like? :blink: ) For now I still reckon it's a step up for these guys.

Didn't think the Toobooracs were infected either. Tried them both. Drinkable but not mind blowing. But good to try a beer from a brewery not at the showcase before, and saved me a long drive out Heathcote way to give them a go.

Have to agree with Mants on the Mountain Goat Rapunzel. Sorry, but this beer is definately not true to a golden strong ale style. As far from a beer like Duvel as you can get, despite them saying it was in the style of a 'Duvel' at the stand. Colour was bright orange and could have sworn I could taste Orange rind and corriander which would be consistent with a witbier. Whatever they've created here is a zany fusion of Wit & Strong.

Interesting to get some extra reports through on impressions tomorrow when the sore heads settle. Regardless it's a great event and a great way to sample the craftbrewing goodies from all over. I do admire these guys putting their beers side by side like this - must be pretty confronting.

Incidentally - anyone who asked for the special brew from the Holgate stand got a real treat too. Forgot to mention. 

Hopper.


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## manticle (18/3/10)

I was talking about the arctic english pale ale, not the american. Maybe that's where some of the confusion is coming from. They had both available - I only tried one.


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## bum (18/3/10)

HoppingMad said:


> Have to agree with Mants on the Mountain Goat Rapunzel. Sorry, but this beer is definately not true to a golden strong ale style.


 Ah. For some reason I thought this was supposed to be a Saison. Dunno why. I take back any damage control I may have placed on my opinion of this one. It is a dud.



HoppingMad said:


> I do admire these guys putting their beers side by side like this - must be pretty confronting.


 Yeah. Hadn't thought about this. Kudos to all - even (especially?) Tooborac.



HoppingMad said:


> Incidentally - anyone who asked for the special brew from the Holgate stand got a real treat too. Forgot to mention.


 Shit. What was this?


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## HoppingMad (18/3/10)

manticle said:


> I was talking about the arctic english pale ale, not the american. Maybe that's where some of the confusion is coming from. They had both available - I only tried one.



Noted that Mants, was referring to a post above yours from Revox talking about the APA. 

Didn't try the English myself, just the APA. Had tried their lager previously and it tasted like Carlton Cold.


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## haysie (19/3/10)

Have to agree with Manticle re. the Bright Porter :blink: Alcoholic Sarsparilla.
Of note for me was the Coldstream Porter, a year ago I tipped the same out whilst lunching at their micro, it was over burnt no body no head full on slickness in the mouth. Perhaps I copped dirty lines etc etc? This year it was great, roasty with choc shining thru not overly sharp with the dark malts, real good level of biterness that let the malt stand out up front. Mouthfeel had a medium body to it and the head/appearance was all there.
Otways Organic Lager was great, not sure what made it organic? being so busy I didnt get a chance to chew the fat at the stand. I found myself going back for seconds.
The place was packed when I got there, not the ideal scene for the better half elbowing and bumping between beer stands, so the decision was made early to bail out and head for the Belgian beer cafe. I hope the guys I gave my beer tickets to made good use of them.
The chilli mussel pot and leffe blonde followed up with bellevue kriek was absolute magnificent!


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## haysie (19/3/10)

Have to agree with Manticle re. the Bright Porter :blink: Alcoholic Sarsparilla.
Of note for me was the Coldstream Porter, a year ago I tipped the same out whilst lunching at their micro, it was over burnt no body no head full on slickness in the mouth. Perhaps I copped dirty lines etc etc? This year it was great, roasty with choc shining thru not overly sharp with the dark malts, real good level of biterness that let the malt stand out up front. Mouthfeel had a medium body to it and the head/appearance was all there.
Otways Organic Lager was great, not sure what made it organic? being so busy I didnt get a chance to chew the fat at the stand. I found myself going back for seconds.
The place was packed when I got there, not the ideal scene for the better half elbowing and bumping between beer stands, so the decision was made early to bail out and head for the Belgian beer cafe. I hope the guys I gave my beer tickets to made good use of them.
The chilli mussel pot and leffe blonde followed up with bellevue kriek was absolute magnificent!


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## reVoxAHB (19/3/10)

HoppingMad said:


> Geez. There you go. Different strokes for different folks in the tastebud stakes.
> I thought the Arctic Fox APA was good, but did try it first, it was stinkin' hot and I was craving a bevvie. (what does calcium taste like? :blink: )


Calcium (salts) at low level, probably have very little taste (and from what I've read the perception at low-levels is akin to something being savoury) but the Arctic, at least for me, clearly went overboard probably with calc chloride or combination of CaCl2 and straight up sodium chloride. I am sensitive to salt mind you, especially in beer.



HoppingMad said:


> Have to agree with Mants on the Mountain Goat Rapunzel.


+1. and the girl pouring last night was not Jayne (the brewer), incidentally.



bum said:


> Thank Christ for that. I was beginning to feel like I was taking crazy pills.
> 
> [EDIT: Didn't mean to suggest that there aren't broad gaps in my experience and knowledge - there are. Thanks very much for taking the time to address this, reVox. It all helps me learn more.]



Ah no worries. Really, what sparked my interest was (as others have inferred) breweries/brewers presenting beers which are clearly flawed, with flaws being part of the flavour profile (or intended).

Take Emerald Hill's wheat a few years ago. First go around (at Showcase) the beer took taster's choice award for overall showcase favourite. And it was damn good. Next go around, the beer was rife with acetaldehyde, and I mean rife! It was also a little hot. When chatting to the brewers, they flat out denied there was anything wrong with the beer, that no change had been made to recipe or process.. that it was their best batch yet, etc. Even the folks around who had NO experience in tasting were saying, "Wow.. this wheat beer tastes like green apples." Jesus.

Hard to speculate where EH went wrong, but I'd put money on overstressed yeast (probably gen'd it too many times) and unjacketed ferms. I ran the numbers and the showcase winner wheat was brewed in the winter months (confirmed by brewers, too), and flawed wheat in summer (brewers told me, "Yeah, we had a few 40 degree days in there [ferm cycle]") Shit, those guys were working out of a garage, no A/C afaik, no jacketing. 

I thought it might be another Emerald Hill moment. 

reVox


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## Leigh (19/3/10)

At one of the stands near the front on the right as you walk in, they had tasting notes...for their darker ale that had been fermented for 6 months? it had "...strong vegemite taste..." LOL


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## Thirsty Boy (19/3/10)

Didn't go to the showcase this time (I was at a Champagne tasting yesterday afternoon instead... do I have to hand in my Beer Geek membership card?) - but just on the Rapunzel by Goat.

I agree - its not a Belgian Strong Golden left one.... but it wasn't last time either. The last batch of this stuff improved dramatically with age - when forst released ot was all over the place, out of style, out of balance etc etc... but a month or s later.. back on track. It never turned into what I would call a great Belgian Strong Golden... but if you think of it more as just a Belgian Blonde ale - it becomes more acceptable, and if it holds true to the last batch, age will do wonders for it. So give it another try in a month or two.

Not that I think it should be being presented in its current state - If its no damn good for another month or two, don't sell it till it is.


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## Fourstar (19/3/10)

reVox said:


> Interested to hear your take fourstar.
> Cheers
> reVox




Well im still shaking the cobwebs away after last nights effort. :icon_vomit: 

Highlight of the night for me was Murrays India Black Ale (Black IPA) at beer deluxe! Everything ive been planning on trying to recreate with the Black IPA concept except im always getting too much roast. sweet maltiness, complex Hoppiness and a neuance of cocoa. One thing i did notice its colour was somwhat like guinness. On the Looowwwww end of the black/borderline brown scale and a deep ruby when held to light. Really good.

From the ACUTAL showcase my fav was the True South New World Pilsner. Big nose of nelson sauvin, light pepperiness/spicy hops in the background, perfectly balanced and Really tasty. Just what i was after yesterday. It has spurred me to knock out a CAP with NZ hops again sometime soon. Their dark ale is definitely one for the punters, a gateway to dark beers. Personally, i think thats what it needs to be. No use brewing a stout or a porter once a quarter(if that) when you can sell something like this and get equal tap rotation with almost all of your beers. One thing that was great about it is the big late hop aroma. Motueka! :beerbang: 

Bum - The True South Kolsch was fine. (infact none of their range showcased any undesireables) Somewhat dusty from the yeast in suspension but this also helped boost the fruity vinuous complexity you get from a kolsh style beer. I spoke with sam about it and she thinks it tastes better this way. I'll take her word for it.

As for Tooborac, the amber ale was overcarbed, both where served way too cold (infact that was an issue for almost every stall.) Let the amber warm up and you have got a really tasty english bitter on your hands. The pale ale was ok but unbalanced and needed more hops. Apparantly there was cascade in it, 1st time ive never found cascade. That was my only gripe with it.

The ranga amber ale was also tasty done by southern bay. I also enjoyed the Weizen done by Sweetwater. light clove and nice banana.

Holgate as always are knocking out winners with their 'extreme range'. Ive had them all before but had to go have a taste again. Temptress.. :icon_drool2: 

Finally, I decided i would waste a couple of tickets on buckleys to see what funk they where serving this time. Wish i didnt.

End communication.


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## Fourstar (19/3/10)

haysie said:


> The place was packed when I got there, not the ideal scene for the better half elbowing and bumping between beer stands, so the decision was made early to bail out and head for the Belgian beer cafe. I hope the guys I gave my beer tickets to made good use of them.
> The chilli mussel pot and leffe blonde followed up with bellevue kriek was absolute magnificent!




They sure where haysie!  Glad the munch at the Belgian was worth the $$ and the hike down to eureka!




HoppingMad said:


> anyone who asked for the special brew from the Holgate stand got a real treat too. Forgot to mention.





bum said:


> Shit. What was this?



Yes, what was it?! I hope it wasnt the Roadtrip IPA as i quizzed them about it not being there!


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## HoppingMad (19/3/10)

reVox said:


> Hard to speculate where EH went wrong, but I'd put money on overstressed yeast (probably gen'd it too many times)
> reVox



Interesting thing on the Emerald Hill ReVox. In addition to no jacketing, word on the street was that these guys 'custom built' a fair bit of their own gear - a fundamental flaw being that their 400L tanks were flat bottomed, not conical. A bit of a boo-boo. 

People I spoke to who used to go to their brewery when it opened on Fri nights said they would take a 19L cornie keg or two at the most of beer out at a time from the tank - which was fine when the beer was fresh, but they were draining such small amounts with no way to properly remove the yeast from the flat tank bottom due to the incorrect design :blink: And the low turnover of beer meant the stuff would sit there for some time - on the yeast. :icon_vomit: 

In otherwords - Emerald Hill beers became renowned for Autolysis on quite a few occasions. Fine if you got the fresh beer before it set in, but bad news if you got the two month old stuff.

Sad to see breweries like EH disappear from the landscape (they're closed now, gear sold off) - but I guess when you're setting up a brewery it's important to get the design right if you want to make the good stuff.

Hopper.


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## BrenosBrews (19/3/10)

Fourstar said:


> Yes, what was it?! I hope it wasnt the Roadtrip IPA as i quizzed them about it not being there!



If it was, don't worry, your not missing much.


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## Fourstar (19/3/10)

BrenosBrews said:


> If it was, don't worry, your not missing much.



:huh: Well ive had the Roadside IPA, it's worth having. A really great beer. Do you even know what beer it was? what style?


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## reVoxAHB (19/3/10)

Fourstar said:


> :huh: Well ive had the Roadside IPA, it's worth having. A really great beer. Do you even know what beer it was? what style?



I agree Fourstar. I think it's one of the best, if not the best AIPA being brewed in Australia atm. When did you have it Brenos and what didn't you like about it?


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## Siborg (19/3/10)

Had an awesome night trying new beer styles and breweries (ok, I'm still learning!)

I didn't really try a bad beer, though I was getting recommendations from fourstar and manticle. Tried a former favourite of mine, the grand ridge gold, that I haven't had for years, and could definitely taste the buttery-scotchness. 

My favourite was the holgate temptress chocolate and the true south red truck lager.

The sweetwater weissbier was pretty good too.


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## HoppingMad (19/3/10)

Thirsty Boy said:


> Rapunzel... Mountain goat...
> I agree - its not a Belgian Strong Golden left one.... but it wasn't last time either. The last batch of this stuff improved dramatically with age - when forst released ot was all over the place, out of style, out of balance etc etc... but a month or s later.. back on track. It never turned into what I would call a great Belgian Strong Golden... but if you think of it more as just a Belgian Blonde ale - it becomes more acceptable, and if it holds true to the last batch, age will do wonders for it. So give it another try in a month or two.
> 
> Not that I think it should be being presented in its current state - If its no damn good for another month or two, don't sell it till it is.



Yeah, agree it's more in the Blonde category. Had the same harsh yeast and strong orange zest flavours that I've recently found with Feral Brewing's White Beer (if anyone's tried that you might get what I mean). Maybe I just don't like this style of beer, but could well have been at the showcase a tad too young as you say TB. Something I might try again on a Mountain Goat Brewery visit at a later date to see if it smoothes out. Plenty of flavours fighting around in the glass on the showcase version!

Hopper.


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## bum (19/3/10)

Fourstar said:


> Bum - The True South Kolsch was fine. (infact none of their range showcased any undesireables) Somewhat dusty from the yeast in suspension but this also helped boost the fruity vinuous complexity you get from a kolsh style beer. I spoke with sam about it and she thinks it tastes better this way. I'll take her word for it.


 Not sure why I've been singled out here as I know I'm not the only one who tipped it/didn't like it. Dunno why anyone would take any brewers word on the quality of their own beer either. 


Fourstar said:


> As for Tooborac, the amber ale was overcarbed, both where served way too cold (infact that was an issue for almost every stall.) Let the amber warm up and you have got a really tasty english bitter on your hands. The pale ale was ok but unbalanced and needed more hops. Apparantly there was cascade in it, 1st time ive never found cascade. That was my only gripe with it.


 Yeah, all of the beers there were a touch cold but as I see it that could only have helped Tooborac's pale when I tried it. I would love to have tasted less. Is there anyone here who tried it on the wednesday? I refuse to live in a world where the beer I drank is considered passable. I'm sure there are beers I liked there that others do not. I am equally sure (even moreso, in fact) there are great beers there I didn't or wouldn't have enjoyed. I am honestly having a hard time accepting that the beer I had falls into the later category. This isn't the same thing as the True South Summer Ale - my problem with that is that is an insipid lawnmower beer dressed up as something else not that I think it was a worthless beer - it is just not worth much to me.


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## BrenosBrews (19/3/10)

Fourstar said:


> :huh: Well ive had the Roadside IPA, it's worth having. A really great beer. Do you even know what beer it was? what style?



It's an American style IPA inspired by a recent trip to the US. 
So I state a personal opinion and you question whether I know what beer it was and what style? Interesting. Keep in mind you don't need to be a prolific active member on AHB to know about beer.

To answer your question Revox, I had it at The Local Taphouse Spectapular in St Kilda in a taster paddle as I think my 3rd or 4th taster.
I assume you guys had it either there as well or Beer Deluxe? Maybe Mrs Parmas? 
I never said it was bad or terrible. In my personal opinion it was just nothing to get excited about. I didn't bother taking notes on it as I didn't want to order a regular size one and won't take notes on a taster. 
But I recall diacetyl in both the aroma and taste which is inappropiate and thought both hop aroma and flavour was quite dull/low for an American inspired IPA. 
Still find it interesting to get "accused" of not knowing what beer style it was in a thread full of differing opinions.


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## Quintrex (19/3/10)

BrenosBrews said:


> It's an American style IPA inspired by a recent trip to the US.
> So I state a personal opinion and you question whether I know what beer it was and what style? Interesting. Keep in mind you don't need to be a prolific active member on AHB to know about beer.
> 
> To answer your question Revox, I had it at The Local Taphouse Spectapular in St Kilda in a taster paddle as I think my 3rd or 4th taster.
> ...



I had it at the taphouse and thought it was pretty good, a lot better hop presence than the hoppinator. However I had it 2 weeks later at the holgate brewery and found the hop presence a lot more muted than earlier.

Didn't get any diacetyl either time, interestingly, it stank like pot flowers.

Q


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## manticle (19/3/10)

It tasted like a glass of yeast and i don't think it's as it's intended to be. Most of their other beers are lovely.


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## Yikes (19/3/10)

The special beer Holgate was doing was called 'Ladyboy'. Or 'A Temptress with Nuts'. Just half half nut brown and their choc porter. Yum!


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## HoppingMad (19/3/10)

bum said:


> Not sure why I've been singled out here as I know I'm not the only one who tipped it/didn't like it. Dunno why anyone would take any brewers word on the quality of their own beer either.



Yep tip me in for not enjoying the True South Summer Ale. And two others - one that is doing the BJCP course and another that completed it. 

All three of us confirm butterscotch. One of the guys had just done a session last week where they had the 'flaw kit' from the US where they go through sampling each infection flaw. So this was more than a hunch. He'd tasted the flaw on the official flaw kit and knew exactly what he was tasting. We might have got a dud keg on Wednesday, but from the keg we had - we definately sampled a beer with an issue. I might have been mistaken - but the two guys I was with weren't.


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## Yikes (19/3/10)

Did anyone else try the Prickly Moses summer ale? I tried it late in the night and tipped it. Just wondering if my untrained fatigued pallete was lying to me about it tasting pretty average.
On another note. I really enjoyed the Arctic Fox APA, it had more going for it than a lot of the other APA's served up, and good on them for winning the award for peoples choice best lager.


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## haysie (19/3/10)

Yikes said:


> Did anyone else try the Prickly Moses summer ale? I tried it late in the night and tipped it. Just wondering if my untrained fatigued pallete was lying to me about it tasting pretty average.
> On another note. I really enjoyed the Arctic Fox APA, it had more going for it than a lot of the other APA's served up, and good on them for winning the award for peoples choice best lager.



How does an APA win a lager award? My thoughts of the APA was a huge hop smash that masked everything.


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## manticle (19/3/10)

The marketting description/tasting notes of their APA put me off a bit - hops, hops hops x 100 and more hops or whatever. It needs more to make good beer than just throwing bucketloads of a single ingredient at it. The terrible English pale ale made me not want to waste a ticket on it.


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## Fourstar (19/3/10)

BrenosBrews said:


> If it was, don't worry, your not missing much.






BrenosBrews said:


> It's an American style IPA inspired by a recent trip to the US.
> So I state a personal opinion and you question whether I know what beer it was and what style? Interesting. Keep in mind you don't need to be a prolific active member on AHB to know about beer.
> 
> Still find it interesting to get "accused" of not knowing what beer style it was in a thread full of differing opinions.




I wasnt accusing you of anything Jodie Foster. I was just asking if you knew the name of the beer being served at the showcase that was 'secret'. Hence the "do you even know what beer it was? what style?". For all i know, they could have served you something from a childs sipper cup. From your response it sounded like you where guessing it was the roadside IPA, just wanted to confirm it was the same beer we had both experienced outside the showcase. No need to get your panties in a bunch.


Oh Bum - I was under the assumption you didnt like it due to infection. Sorry. Btw, i wasnt taking Sams word as gospel that a kolsch "should taste like that" moreso, she believes her beer tastes better served 'mit hefe' rather than diamond bright.

Screw this... im off to purvis! :icon_cheers:


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## Fourstar (19/3/10)

HoppingMad said:


> Yep tip me in for not enjoying the True South Summer Ale. And two others - one that is doing the BJCP course and another that completed it.
> 
> All three of us confirm butterscotch. One of the guys had just done a session last week where they had the 'flaw kit' from the US where they go through sampling each infection flaw. So this was more than a hunch. He'd tasted the flaw on the official flaw kit and knew exactly what he was tasting. We might have got a dud keg on Wednesday, but from the keg we had - we definately sampled a beer with an issue. I might have been mistaken - but the two guys I was with weren't.




It might have been from another batch. Who knows. Oh, they didnt try the butterscotch from a flaw kit, it was actually a grand ridge beer! h34r: haha. Im in the same BJCP course. BTW, i know what diacetyl tastes like too, i didnt detect it in the true south (although people do detect it on different levels). I just finished a keg of my own that had some diacetyl, Still tasted good though, atleast if you like sweet butter. :icon_cheers:


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## haysie (19/3/10)

This thread is on a road to nowhere. Biased opinions, associated opinions, different strokes different folk, get the drift! Great, have an opinion on the tasting buts lets not get excited about having an opinion on the taster`s opinion. Good on em for posting it up in the first place.


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## HoppingMad (19/3/10)

Fourstar said:


> It might have been from another batch. Who knows. Oh, they didnt try the butterscotch from a flaw kit, it was actually a grand ridge beer! h34r: haha. Im in the same BJCP course. BTW, i know what diacetyl tastes like too, i didnt detect it in the true south (although people do detect it on different levels). I just finished a keg of my own that had some diacetyl, Still tasted good though, atleast if you like sweet butter. :icon_cheers:



Ah...the diacetyl gold. That was why my mate said it tasted familiar! Classic!

Bagging aside, I enjoy the event immensely every time it comes up and will no doubt be at the next. Would be great if they did a different version at Fed Square - like threw in some kiwi micros too or something. I'd be all over that for sure! Mmmm...emersons...epic... :icon_drool2: Oh well, I guess there's the Purvis tastings for that. Will get my fix there...

Hopper.


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## Melthar (19/3/10)

haysie said:


> How does an APA win a lager award? My thoughts of the APA was a huge hop smash that masked everything.



The APA was one of the 3 beers they had there, they seemd to be focusing on mostly that and the APA since those were the two on tap (their English in bottles). Have tried it before, and from talking to the brewers they've actually changed the recipe a fair bit since the original variants, I found it quite drinkable but I'm not big on lagers in general so I'll leave the verdict to others.




manticle said:


> The marketting description/tasting notes of their APA put me off a bit - hops, hops hops x 100 and more hops or whatever. It needs more to make good beer than just throwing bucketloads of a single ingredient at it. The terrible English pale ale made me not want to waste a ticket on it.



On the marketing side I love the fact that they backed this up by having the hop bines behind them, might actually educate a couple of people on what goes into their beers. 



And seconded for a kiwi variant.


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## bum (19/3/10)

NZ sounds prohibitively expensive for the breweries to me but surely national is doable?

I know this is essentially a Victorian regional development event but no reason they can't get other states on board. Maybe an extra event each year with no Vic breweries?


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## Siborg (20/3/10)

haysie said:


> This thread is on a road to nowhere. Biased opinions, associated opinions, different strokes different folk, get the drift! Great, have an opinion on the tasting buts lets not get excited about having an opinion on the taster`s opinion. Good on em for posting it up in the first place.


 
+1 


HoppingMad said:


> Ah...the diacetyl gold. That was why my mate said it tasted familiar! Classic!
> 
> I guess there's the Purvis tastings for that. Will get my fix there...


 
OOH! Hell yeah! Glad you reminded me! :icon_drunk:


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## HoppingMad (20/3/10)

bum said:


> NZ sounds prohibitively expensive for the breweries to me but surely national is doable?
> 
> I know this is essentially a Victorian regional development event but no reason they can't get other states on board. Maybe an extra event each year with no Vic breweries?



At the Purvis event they get a good spread of Kiwi Micros, but unfortunately it's mainly reps doing the talking about brews, not any brewers. Would be great to see an event with some actual Kiwi Brewers taking us through their bevvies. 

I do second the idea that getting the showcase to have some interstate breweries would be awesome too. I enjoy some of the QLD Burleigh Beers, (enjoyed the Hefeweizen & My Wifes Bitter recently). And we don't get to see much of what WA & SA (other than the winery owned brewers) are doing and the NSW micro list is steadily growing but only a few are trickling down to Vic. There's also some interesting stuff in Tassie right now with Hazards in the east, Willie Simpson's new brewery in the west and the one where the guy has his own grain harvested for the brews - Two Meter Tall I think it is. 

But yeah, I think this event is something to do with State Gov/Tourism Vic so maybe this isn't the spot for it - just reckon if you could get a more national spread and even some NZ stuff in a bigger space than the Purvis squeeze-box it would really be something. 

I think one thing the Micro Showcase organisers are doing right is they are now are limiting numbers and it's become more civilised. The early timeslot also keeps away the all-out booze hounds and makes it more a tasting event instead of a swillfest before hitting the clubs. The Purvis event/s have been getting pretty crowded of late. Not that I'm complaining too much - the beers are always good. But sometimes you could do with some extra wiggle room over at that one.

Hopper.


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## reVoxAHB (20/3/10)

BrenosBrews said:


> It's an American style IPA inspired by a recent trip to the US.
> So I state a personal opinion and you question whether I know what beer it was and what style? Interesting. Keep in mind you don't need to be a prolific active member on AHB to know about beer.


Hey Brenos, I read FourStar's post as asking if you knew what beer or style the mystery Holgate beer was, not if you knew what style, etc. the RoadTrip is. He stringed it off the back of his saying he liked the RoadTrip then used the word, "even".. I can absolutely see how easily it can be misinterpreted.



BrenosBrews said:


> To answer your question Revox, I had it at The Local Taphouse Spectapular in St Kilda in a taster paddle as I think my 3rd or 4th taster.
> I assume you guys had it either there as well or Beer Deluxe? Maybe Mrs Parmas?


Yeah cool, I ask because I had friends down at the Hop Spectapular who tried it and liked it, but found it hard to give the beer a detailed look in the myriad of highly hopped beers. So the reviews were akin to good, "Nicely hoppy without being aggressive, not too sweet or crystal malty, well-balanced, clean. Definitely more balanced and approachable than extreme."

I had it on draught at the bar. Was told it was from the very first RoadTrip batch approx. 7 weeks old. Hops were bright, balanced well, great bittering hit right up front (taking a stab at 55+ IBU?) that sort of settles down after the 4th or 5th sip (palate adjusts). Clean malt finish (with the signature Holgate stamp in bill) but very much subdued to really let the hops shine.



HoppingMad said:


> Interesting thing on the Emerald Hill ReVox. In addition to no jacketing, word on the street was that these guys 'custom built' a fair bit of their own gear - a fundamental flaw being that their 400L tanks were flat bottomed, not conical. A bit of a boo-boo.
> 
> People I spoke to who used to go to their brewery when it opened on Fri nights said they would take a 19L cornie keg or two at the most of beer out at a time from the tank - which was fine when the beer was fresh, but they were draining such small amounts with no way to properly remove the yeast from the flat tank bottom due to the incorrect design :blink: And the low turnover of beer meant the stuff would sit there for some time - on the yeast. :icon_vomit:
> 
> In otherwords - Emerald Hill beers became renowned for Autolysis on quite a few occasions. Fine if you got the fresh beer before it set in, but bad news if you got the two month old stuff.


Jeeze, the amount of stories I've heard about EH and process is astounding. The 400L flat bottomed tanks is another to the list! I'd been in there a couple of times but to be honest with you, never noticed their primarys were flat-bottomed! I was told they picked up most of their gear from the dairy industry, and the kettle in particular was custom built. 

Just found this on their still operational website: 




Yeah, no way you're going to effectively drop yeast with that slope.. EH's bottom looks akin to an inverted glass carboy (where similarly the fermentap folks thought the pitch was sufficient to drop- it isn't, and fermentap is no longer avail afaik). 



HoppingMad said:


> Sad to see breweries like EH disappear from the landscape (they're closed now, gear sold off) - but I guess when you're setting up a brewery it's important to get the design right if you want to make the good stuff.
> 
> Hopper.



It is a shame EH is no longer doing business. Profit margins are so ridiculously tight with excise (and general cost of doing business as a small producer in Australia) that an oversight like flat bottom primary tanks, no jacketing, etc. are hard to rectify on no-string. Clearly, if they had the dough and personal resilience they could have just purchased 3 new (or used) jacketed primes designed for the brewing industry, and wore the first wave of negative feedback with their beers (with the direction that hey, we've acknowledged it and we're doing something about it). But hell, they didn't even mill their own grains down there.. first purchase might very well have been a motorised grain mill :blink: 

Cheers
reVox


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## Count Vorlauf (20/3/10)

You'd think 22 Victorian microbreweries would be enough to keep everyone entertained! The AIBA Expo is there every year now to showcase beers from interstate, across the Tasman, and internationally. 

I didn't get around to everyone, but top beers for me this time were the Arctic Fox APA (sorry ReVox - guess I don't have the salt sensitivity!), Sweetwater Weizen, Cold Stream Elderflower Ale, and True South Red Truck. Wish there were more Vic Micros there - Kooinda, Red Hill, and Jamiesons notably absent - and fewer faux micros and contracts. Too bad about the LLV (f*cking wankers) cracking down this time and keeping Hargreaves and Bridge Road from participating. The guys at Arctic Fox said they were given a written warning for not serving into 60ml plastic containers as stipulated in the license!


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## bum (20/3/10)

Ah, is that why Hargreaves weren't there? I was looking forward to trying one of theirs (after having a bottle of their serviceable (if slightly underdone) pale ale). What is the story there?

Bridge Road were on board on Wednesday (pretty sure some have reported back on them from thursday too). Were they shut down or something?

I wasn't aware of the AIBA event - I'll retract that suggestion if it is basically the same deal.


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## reVoxAHB (20/3/10)

Count Vorlauf said:


> You'd think 22 Victorian microbreweries would be enough to keep everyone entertained! The AIBA Expo is there every year now to showcase beers from interstate, across the Tasman, and internationally.
> 
> I didn't get around to everyone, but top beers for me this time were the Arctic Fox APA (sorry ReVox - guess I don't have the salt sensitivity!), Sweetwater Weizen, Cold Stream Elderflower Ale, and True South Red Truck. Wish there were more Vic Micros there - Kooinda, Red Hill, and Jamiesons notably absent - and fewer faux micros and contracts. Too bad about the LLV (f*cking wankers) cracking down this time and keeping Hargreaves and Bridge Road from participating. The guys at Arctic Fox said they were given a written warning for not serving into 60ml plastic containers as stipulated in the license!



meh no dramas on Arctic APA. guess i'm a rogue tongue on the over calc'd salt w/this one; glad most of you are enjoying it. anyone know if the Artic APA is in bottles, yet? i'll bring a couple round a buddies house next weekend and give it retry. 

hey yeah, so what's the story with LLV, etc. I too, wondered where Har/BR was this time around (and Temple).


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## Count Vorlauf (21/3/10)

From what I gathered this was the first event where each brewery had to provide their own license and not everyone got one in time basically due to LLV dragging its heels. Some change in the licensing rules that means the Fed Square event isn't big enough (!) to warrant a blanket license. Meanwhile, the wine tasting at Southbank this weekend is big enough to get one. Bridge Road did indeed get shut down by LLV on night one. Temple was getting enough exposure at the Japanese beer garden; Ron and Renata looked like they were enjoying just making the rounds for a change rather than slinging beers .

These festival licenses have escalated hugely in cost for the breweries, too. At the same time, wineries have been granted a special festival license that allows them to get one license for 20 or so events rather than a separate one for each. Just another way that brewers get screwed because they cater to bogans and drunks while only the finer sort drink wine. <_< Funny, the only tasting event I've seen devolve into a massive drunken brawl was a "Jazz in the Vines" day out in Yarra Valley a few years back... :lol: 

The AIBA Expo = Beer & Brewer Expo. This year it's going to be at Fed Square and Y&J's. First I saw of Epic was at last year's Expo. Looks like a good line up of speakers.



reVox said:


> meh no dramas on Arctic APA. guess i'm a rogue tongue on the over calc'd salt w/this one; glad most of you are enjoying it. anyone know if the Artic APA is in bottles, yet? i'll bring a couple round a buddies house next weekend and give it retry.
> 
> hey yeah, so what's the story with LLV, etc. I too, wondered where Har/BR was this time around (and Temple).


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## Wolfy (21/3/10)

When I asked the organizer-lady where Hargreaves were, she said they did not get a liquor license in time, also as I mentioned earlier some places had to turn people away at exactly 8pm due to their restricted license.

Bridge Rd were there on Wed with a Saison and Bire de Garde both on tap.


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## bum (21/3/10)

I missed those at Bridge Road at about 7 and they had the Celtic Red and I think Beechworth Pale on tap (coming out as pure foam though).


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## Wayne'o (22/3/10)

Count Vorlauf said:


> These festival licenses have escalated hugely in cost for the breweries, too. At the same time, wineries have been granted a special festival license that allows them to get one license for 20 or so events rather than a separate one for each. Just another way that brewers get screwed because they cater to bogans and drunks while only the finer sort drink wine. <_< Funny, the only tasting event I've seen devolve into a massive drunken brawl was a "Jazz in the Vines" day out in Yarra Valley a few years back... :lol:



Yes the liquor licenses have escalated, around double the price it was last year, and taking about double the time to get one as well.


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## HoppingMad (22/3/10)

reVox said:


> Jeeze, the amount of stories I've heard about EH and process is astounding. The 400L flat bottomed tanks is another to the list! I'd been in there a couple of times but to be honest with you, never noticed their primarys were flat-bottomed! I was told they picked up most of their gear from the dairy industry, and the kettle in particular was custom built.
> 
> Just found this on their still operational website:
> View attachment 36485
> ...



Sorry Revox, you're right. The fermenters weren't 'flat-bottomed' as I earlier reported, they had cones that were inadequate. I just went back over an old email and my mate had noted that the fermenters weren't "60% conical" as these things should be if built to standard. The speculation as you say is that some yeast will roll down and be tapped out, but much of it would get stuck, making it a problem with autolysis.

Hope that clears it up.

Hopper.


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## bum (27/3/10)

bum said:


> I'll see if I feel that same after I try one obtained through normal channels and one not direct from the brewery.


 
Just reporting back on this one after finding a bottle of the Grand Ridge Moonshine under discussion. I'm getting a buttered toast thing in the aroma but the missus is getting butterscotch. The flavour is purest revolting. I dunno what happened on the night - whether they pulled a switcheroo, I had some sort of palate fatigue (should maybe revisit Tooborac's Pale too) or I was just completely pissed. This really is proper shitful.


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