# Aussie Lambic - Could It Be



## Screwtop (11/5/07)

Wow! tried a beer described by it's maker as a Cider Beer last night. The flavour and the description of the fermentation could indicate that this is maybe an Australian Lambic. A pretty rare thing!

Visited Thorogoods idery at Burra in SA yesterday. Asking about their cider production and fermentetion the lady told me they use spontaneous fermentation, (wild yeast) to produce all of their ciders. None of the ciders really took my fancy as none were sparkling as I like them. The owner said that they produce a cider beer and asked if I was familiar with the belgian method of producing fruit beers, saying they make a cider and add malt wort. Basically opposite to what I understand of the Belgian method of making malt beer and adding fruit. Still the method of making cider using spontaneous fermentetion then adding apples and allowing it to ferment out is basically the same thing. Well, if this was a true Lambic then I'm well pleased as it met every description I've read regarding the flavour.

Pretty big at 12% abv and truly sour it was not something for the feint hearted, but what a beer and what an experience. Think I need to take some of these home with me to QLD.


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## jayse (11/5/07)

I have been looking out for that in a few bottle shops here but have yet to find it although i haven't really gone looking that hard for it.

Aussie lambic and spontaneous fermentation brings me visions of having the fermentor open while a single mother in track suit pants and a guns and roses T-shirt walks past pushing a pram.  
As homer would say 'did i just say that or just think it' <_< doh :excl: 

Sounds like your having quite a trip screwtop, if your back in town and up for a couple at the wheatsheaf let us know.



Boozed, broozed and broken boned.
Jayse


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## PostModern (11/5/07)

I thought scrumpy was fermented by the yeast growing on the apples' skin rather than whatever happens to be floating by the fermentation vessels. I imagine wild flying yeast would be different to the stuff that occurs on the fruit?


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## glennheinzel (11/5/07)

I was at a Real Ale festival a few weeks ago (in Pomgolia of course) and the ciders did have that lambic style taste. ie, They were nothing like Strongbow etc.

I'll definitely keep an eye out for the Aussie one.


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## Ross (11/5/07)

Hope you bring some back Michael...would love to try it  

cheers Ross


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## kook (11/5/07)

That would have been Billy B's Golden Malted Apple beer right? 

I've been pretty impressed by the Thorogoods stuff, their ciders are *real* cider (ie, english style scrumpy) and the malted apple beers are very cool, innovative beers. Only complaint is that they don't distribute very far. I keep meaning to place an order with them for an assorted dozen.


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## kook (11/5/07)

PostModern said:


> I thought scrumpy was fermented by the yeast growing on the apples' skin rather than whatever happens to be floating by the fermentation vessels. I imagine wild flying yeast would be different to the stuff that occurs on the fruit?



I think thats what they were inferring. They ferment in oak, which means that any yeast around on the skin of the apples (which will be similar to whats in the air) will begin to live in the oak. Explains why they've had some interesting vintages.


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## winkle (11/5/07)

Screwtop said:


> Wow! tried a beer described by it's maker as a Cider Beer last night. The flavour and the description of the fermentation could indicate that this is maybe an Australian Lambic. A pretty rare thing!
> 
> (edit)
> 
> Pretty big at 12% abv and truly sour it was not something for the feint hearted, but what a beer and what an experience. Think I need to take some of these home with me to QLD.



Mate, bring a few I'm sure there's quite a few of us (me, me pick me) who'd love to try it (and chip in) :beer:


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## braufrau (11/5/07)

Screwtop said:


> Wow! tried a beer described by it's maker as a Cider Beer last night. The flavour and the description of the fermentation could indicate that this is maybe an Australian Lambic. A pretty rare thing!
> 
> Visited Thorogoods idery at Burra in SA yesterday. Asking about their cider production and fermentetion the lady told me they use spontaneous fermentation, (wild yeast) to produce all of their ciders.



But doesn't a lambic include lactobacillus and other bacteria in its beasties?
I suppose Thorogoods have probably captured some useful bacteria as well as yeast.

My mother used to make spontaneously fermented ginger beer (pretty common).
Because she didn't add yeast, she believed it was non alcoholic. She's tea-total.
So she happily brewed this for my father year after year.
As the years went by the brew got pretty interesting. It took two buckets to take
the cap off a bottle. One to stop the beer hitting the ceiling and one to catch it as it fell back down.
Quite a few bottles exploded too. Guess she'd captured more than yeast in the brew flora.


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## Malnourished (11/5/07)

Yeah, Billy B's is awesome! 

I don't know if I'd say it's all that much like a gueuze in production or in taste (it's way more acetic, oaky, alcohol, appley (duh) and far less refined) but there are definite similarities. 

The original batch was produced la mthode traditionelle but the latest batch appears to be bottle-conditioned. I bet you could do some crazy stuff if you could manage to rouse whatever's in the bottom of the bottle into action. 

Screwtop, I'm surprised they didn't have any sparkling ciders. They usually have Misty Morning (which is also great) and Sparkling Scrumpy and they once made a cherry-apple hybrid sparkling thing that was really interesting too. 

And for those interested in trying this stuff without paying for an entire case, Cloudwine sells single bottles and ships nationally. NAYY.


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## bconnery (11/5/07)

Screwtop said:


> Wow! tried a beer described by it's maker as a Cider Beer last night. The flavour and the description of the fermentation could indicate that this is maybe an Australian Lambic. A pretty rare thing!
> 
> Visited Thorogoods idery at Burra in SA yesterday. Asking about their cider production and fermentetion the lady told me they use spontaneous fermentation, (wild yeast) to produce all of their ciders. None of the ciders really took my fancy as none were sparkling as I like them. The owner said that they produce a cider beer and asked if I was familiar with the belgian method of producing fruit beers, saying they make a cider and add malt wort. Basically opposite to what I understand of the Belgian method of making malt beer and adding fruit. Still the method of making cider using spontaneous fermentetion then adding apples and allowing it to ferment out is basically the same thing. Well, if this was a true Lambic then I'm well pleased as it met every description I've read regarding the flavour.
> 
> Pretty big at 12% abv and truly sour it was not something for the feint hearted, but what a beer and what an experience. Think I need to take some of these home with me to QLD.



Yes!!!!!! Yes!!!! Bring one please!!! Sour lambicy cider beer? I'd really like to try that!!! Then again, I'm not sure that would surprise you really...


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## Wortgames (11/5/07)

FWIW, 'scrumping' is the act of swiping apples from someone else's orchard, so 'scrumpy' is really just a nickname for the grog that is made with stolen apples.

There are probably a thousand different 'rules' for making cider, depending on which village you are in - but the basic process would go something like this.

Generally the best cider is said to be made from 'arf cookers, arf eaters' (ie 50% cooking apples and 50% eating apples). No yeast was (or is) added to real cider, the skins contain plenty. In fact, the best cider fruit is picked up off the ground, not off the tree, and has probably already started fermenting anyway:

The apples are coarsely crushed...





shovelled into hessian bales which are stacked up and pressed...




then the juice is collected and put into barrels...




Then left for a few months, sampled regularly and drunk when good.

Port barrels are supposed to be the best, and a veteran port barrel that's been making good cider for a few years becomes somewhat famous around the village.

The hard slabs of pressed pulp left over after pressing make great feed for ponies and goats etc (who apparently get a bit tipsy if the apples were ripe enough to start with).

As you can see, any idea of washing the fruit and adding yeast and sodium met and airlocks is pretty alien to these guys. Who knows what beasties are involved, obviously there are yeasts on and in the apples, and all that hessian and oak would have to contribute the usual brett and lacto and probably a million other life forms - so there are more than a few similarities between real cider and lambic...

:beer:


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## neonmeate (12/5/07)

great pics wortgames. 

would love to get hold of some nasty sour apples and make my own cider-beer. by the way the Billy B's is made not by adding apples to the malt runoff but by actually using apple juice as the mash liquor - cool idea. sort of like the "doble doble" method in radical brewing.

it's a pretty uncompromising beverage. acidity like a big acupuncture needle between the eyes. stirs the guts into action that's for sure. the one with dark malts is a bit strange, sort of like eating a toffee apple marinated in vinegar.


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## stillscottish (12/5/07)

When I still lived in the Land of the Pom I did a few courses at Evesham. They were mostly fuelled by cider we'd buy at a pub in Elmley Castle. The place doubled as shop and post office and seemed to be run by two eighty year old women. They'd disappear through the back and come back with a gallon plastic container of your cider. I don't know if they made it on the premises. It was cheap, cloudy, tasted great and blew your head off. 
One time going back to Wood Norton the car radiator sprung a leak. We topped it up with cider and kept on going.

Campbell
....reminiscing


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## paul (12/5/07)

I made a batch of cider back in march from just 40kgs of red delicious apples and another from 30kgs of pears and 40kgs of grannies juiced.

The comments about it blowing your head off are true. It knocks me about after a few pints.

The batch made with just apples in it fermented out to be quite dry so i put a couple of litres of apple juice in the keg to sweeten it up a bit.

The batch with apples and pears is perfect. You can taste the pears in it a bit but their smell really comes through.


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## Screwtop (15/5/07)

Yep it was the Billy B's. Some great replies, fully expected to hear from bconnery, surprised to see other are also keen to try this style. Sorry brewers arrrived in Mildura yesterday so not able to bring any home. Would be in for a carton buy once home, will post their email addy when I dig the bottle out from under the bed in the caravan. It's jam packed in there with 15L of bulk port and muscat. Jayse, would have been up for the Wheatsheaf invite, called in there twice, but did not get to meet the famous beer palate (Jade), next time. Caught up with David Gill at the Royal Oak though and managed to get a bottle of Bavarian Rauchbier. Visited the Mildura Brewery today, ummm OK!

Screwy


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## InCider (15/5/07)

Screwtop said:


> Yep it was the Billy B's. Some great replies, fully expected to hear from bconnery, surprised to see other are also keen to try this style. Sorry brewers arrrived in Mildura yesterday so not able to bring any home. Would be in for a carton buy once home, will post their email addy when I dig the bottle out from under the bed in the caravan. It's jam packed in there with 15L of bulk port and muscat. Jayse, would have been up for the Wheatsheaf invite, called in there twice, but did not get to meet the famous beer palate (Jade), next time. Caught up with David Gill at the Royal Oak though and managed to get a bottle of Bavarian Rauchbier. Visited the Mildura Brewery today, ummm OK!
> 
> Screwy


Hi Screwy,

I'll be in the Lambic buy! I've had a few kits go Lambic and am keen to see how the professionals do it!  

InCider!


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