# Mashing Overnight



## Batz (21/1/04)

I remember one of the guys here posting a message that he was mashing overnight.
Now I am doing an AG Friday (nightshift that night) overnight mashing sounds very appealing.
Could some give me a rundown on it? I use a rubbermaid 5 Gall. , and my mash will fill it to the top , how does temperture go? , do you need to raise the temperture in the morning or just sparge?
Thanks for the help 
Batz


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## big d (21/1/04)

gday batz
jovial monk did the posting under ..mash times...how long do you mash.

breifly you get the strike temp right then cover the grain with styrofoam wrapped in plastic.leave o/night

next morn do a vienese decoction..run wort out and bring to boil in brew pot and pour back over the top of the grain bed.etc

cheers
big d


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## big d (21/1/04)

let all know how it goes batz.im keen to try this method down the track.


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## Murray (22/1/04)

I'll probably give this one a try next weekend.


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## crackers (22/1/04)

batz,
ive done this on the last 3 or 4 brews.
works a treat, but i have found out that the water to grain ratio has a bigger effect on the fermentation.
i filled my mash tun to the top with water to reduce head space.
this i've found creates a very fermentable wort.
very low final gravity. oh well bigger abv
the last one i only put in 3L per KG of grain
and its not fermenting as low.
mashing overnite is a great time saver.
i now do it quite often.

cheers
crackers


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## Jovial_Monk (22/1/04)

I generally use a 2L/K ratio, but then I am a dextrine hound! I also have 10L boiling water to hand: if I need to use this to raise the mashtemp a bit then I won't have a too thin mash. The yanks use 2qt/lb, works out to 2.4L/K, I think and I would hate to get much thinner than that.

Bigd, overnight mash procedure down pat, but wrap the mashtun, esp over the lid, with a blanket or two.

Jovial Monk


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## big d (22/1/04)

cheers jm.
reckon the neighbours may think im looney wrapping up the cooler considering our o/night temps are about 26 degrees plus. :unsure: 
but this is one time saver i will use and reckon i will use the 2l/kg ratio.

cheers
big d B)


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## JasonY (4/8/05)

Ok so I have agreed to brew some beer for a work bash and w/ends are bloody flat out these days so I am thinking of alternatives. I am thinking of "mashing while at work". The plan will be to dough in at about 7:30am and finish it off at about 5:30pm when I get home. 

I guess the question is: is anyone doing this on a regular basis with some advice? I am thinking of an APA, does this technique work better with different grain bills/styles, strike temps etc. 

I assume that the long mash time will let the enzymes break down a lot of the more complex dextrins giving a drier brew. With an APA I think this will be ok as long as I dont go above 35IBU. 

Probably look at mashing 2.5L/kg @ 68deg
insulate like hell. 
Add some boiled water to get it back to 70deg
sparging and take it from there. 

Any guru's on this?


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## Ziggy-san (5/8/05)

Couple o pointers:

1) Make sure you hit your first infusion temps bang on : once you strike, do NOT add unboiled water to cool the mash... the longer resting period will give bacteria and other bugs ample time to invade your mash and sour your wort. Trust me. I lost 65 litres of stout wort to this problem.

2) I've never liked Viennese decoctions... they denature the enzymes and I've not seen them add anything as far as flavor is concerned. If you're going to bother with the hassle of decocting, do a traditional decoction with the grain to get the maltiness, higher gelatinization of starches, and raise your mash temp without additional infusions. 

3) I don't like overnight mashing, but mashing at lunch time (I live close to work) is great! Very fermentable wort and it only sits about five or six hours rather than 8-12.


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## warrenlw63 (5/8/05)

Ziggy-san said:


> Couple o pointers:
> 
> 1) Make sure you hit your first infusion temps bang on : once you strike, do NOT add unboiled water to cool the mash... the longer resting period will give bacteria and other bugs ample time to invade your mash
> 
> [post="70067"][/post]​



Highly unlikely in an overnight mash unless he was cooling his mash with toilet water. Even adding untreated water is no big deal. A combination of mash tun (particularly plastic ones) and crushed malt are a breeding ground for bacteria anyway. Mash doesn't sanitize the wort we'd have to say that boiling does.

Ziggy-san, you say you lost 65 litres of stout wort? This was obviously post-fermentation, if so I'd be pointing my finger somewhere other than the mash.




Ziggy-san said:


> 2) I've never liked Viennese decoctions... they denature the enzymes and I've not seen them add anything as far as flavor is concerned.[post="70067"][/post]​




Can't see this as particularly being a problem either. I think Big-D may have been advocating the Viennese decotion (which I assume to be a liquid decotion) for mashout purposes only. Kind of handy to denature enzymes at this time anyway isn't it? :huh: 

Warren -


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## SJW (5/8/05)

Jovial_Monk said:


> I generally use a 2L/K ratio, but then I am a dextrine hound!
> 
> Jovial Monk



JM,
If u are a Dextrine hound would adding more Carapils/Dextrine to the grain bill have a similar effect as mashing thick, ie, 2l/k ratio?

Just wondering as I was looking back over some old recipes I had done and the best beer I ever did was way back when I was I was still doing part mash's. The beer was a Bock and I used 1 tin of extract along with 1kg of Pale, 1kg of Vienna and 1kg of CARAPILS/DEXTRINE. Along with a little choc & cara wheat malt. From what I now know that should of been way way way toooooo much carapils btu it was tops.

STEPHEN


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## Goat (5/8/05)

Sounds like a great thing to try...

I hope this isn't a dumb question, but why do you do a 'Vienese decoction' or bring the mash up to 70deg? 

Is the purpose of this to mash out? If so, I would have thought that after a several hour long mash, another 30mins at a slightly higher temp before the sparge really wouldnt make much difference.


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## Darren (5/8/05)

Hi Goat,
You are right most enzyme activity would have ceased over several hours.
One advantage I can see though would be that the sugar would be more "fluid" at higher temps probably giving an increased efficiency as it would sparge more readily.
Just a thought
Darren


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## JasonY (5/8/05)

Yep my thinking would be to get the temp up so the sugars are easy to sparge out like Darren said. 

Will defeinately give this a shot, its all dependent on when the bloody yeast fires up. Will report back how it all goes.


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## Darren (5/8/05)

JY,
Don't let the mash go for too long (>12 hrs) unless you you want some real "funk" in the beer.
I let one go from 4.00 in the arvo until 10.00 the next morning. The "larks vomit" smell never left that beer
cheers
Darren


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## JasonY (5/8/05)

Well I hope I don't end up with a bunch of larks vomit! Thinking I may buck the trend and mash thinner as water has a much greater capacity to absorb/hold heat than grain will. If I insulate well hopfully the temp drop will be not so bad. 

Mash length will probably be 10hrs.


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## Ziggy-san (6/8/05)

Warren - 

No, actually, it was pre-fermentation. I tasted the wort in the morning from the tun and it was sour before it went into the kettle. I went ahead and fermented anyway just to see if I could salvage it, but it didn't work.

And, FYI, I stopped using water from the toilet after I saw my dog drinking out of it... I didn't want cooties... :blink: 

You'd probably be surprised at the levels of various microbes in piping -- the water may come from a pure\purified\treated source, but the road it takes to your tap is far less controlled. I used to live in New York City (which has some VERY clean water and extremely strict regulation of water quality), and my water was AWFUL. It turned out that the 180 year-old building in which I lived had only had the pipes replaced once -- in 1927. 75 years of buildup was icky, to say the least. 

I currently live in Mexico and any water that I leave standing around develops an incredible sulfobacter and acetobacter infection (I mean, you can smell this shit from about five meters away!). So... yes, it IS possible (and probable, actually) that unboiled water from old pipes, when mixed with a nearly perfect culturing medium and left overnight at ideal incubation temperatures will carry enough microbes to innoculate your wort.

As to the mash not sanitizing the wort, thats obvious! However, most people strike with water in the 75-90C range -- water that has, for all effective purposes, been sanitized (unless your water comes from an archaebacter laden hot-spring, in which case you've got other problems) and which will NOT add a large proportion of beer-unfriendly bacteria to your mash. Most of the microbes on malt don't adversely affect your wort anyway...

Liquid decoction: why? Why not just runoff into the kettle and start your sparge (batch or fly) with new water... at this point its extremely unlikely that there will be that many sugars left over for the enzymes to attack ANYWAY: its been mashing for 8+ hours! Just start your boil with 1st runnings, sparge and trim off an extra 30 minutes! This is about saving time, no?


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## Tony M (6/8/05)

Ziggy-san said:


> 3) I don't like overnight mashing, but mashing at lunch time (I live close to work) is great! Very fermentable wort and it only sits about five or six hours rather than 8-12.
> [post="70067"][/post]​



Nick,
Your posts in this and other threads appear to make good sense, honed from experience. So tell me, what problems have you had from leaving your mash for twelve hours rather than six?


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## homebrewworld.com (6/8/05)

No Hijac Intended,
My mate mashes then sparges and leaves the wort sitting in his kettle for at least 15hrs (shift worker) before heating up again and boiling etc on a regular basis
.
I recon its pushing the limits, but he has never had a bad result, or as i can vouch a bad beer ! 
Onya dave :beerbang:


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## Darren (6/8/05)

So... yes, it IS possible (and probable, actually) that unboiled water from old pipes, when mixed with a nearly perfect culturing medium and left overnight at ideal incubation temperatures will carry enough microbes to innoculate your wort.

Most of the microbes on malt don't adversely affect your wort anyway...


[post="70277"][/post]​[/quote]




ZS, You ever visited a maltser? 
Ever forgotten or been too lazy to clean a mash tun for a day? Ever smelled a pile of malt dumped into the mulch heap? The aroma is not what one would call, desirable!
I can assure you that unboiled sugars from a mash left for extended periods of time certainly does contain bacteria that will adversely affect you beer.
The malting process for pale coloured malts does not destroy beer spoilage/funky bacteria. It is just too cold.
Old pipes are likely to give metalic flavours rather than bacteria. After all "high quality" water, cold temps and absolute darkness are not condusive to bacterial growth


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## Darren (6/8/05)

JasonY said:


> Well I hope I don't end up with a bunch of larks vomit! Thinking I may buck the trend and mash thinner as water has a much greater capacity to absorb/hold heat than grain will. If I insulate well hopfully the temp drop will be not so bad.
> 
> Mash length will probably be 10hrs.
> [post="70256"][/post]​




JY,
I think that a thick mash will hold temps better than a thin one.
It takes more energy to get grain to temp than water so I suspect grain will lose temp more slowly.
cheers
Darren


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## Borret (6/8/05)

Darren said:


> JY,
> I think that a thick mash will hold temps better than a thin one.
> It takes more energy to get grain to temp than water so I suspect grain will lose temp more slowly.
> cheers
> ...



Darren ,

please explain how you arrived at the more energy for grain conclusion. I am baffled by that claim

Borret


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## Darren (6/8/05)

Borret,
You are right I have no basis for this claim other than I have noticed that thin mashes lose more heat than thick mashes.
Maybe the grain is in itself an better insulator of heat?
You can simply test this yourself with a bowl of water and a bowl of mashed grain on your sink. The bowl of water will be cold well before the bowl of mashed grain.
cheers
Darren


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## Darren (6/8/05)

Thought about this again as i was taking piss!
Ever missed you sacc. temp amd tried to raise the temp with heat. Its a damn site harder to raise the temps of a mash than water. Does sugar boil at lower temps than water? I would rather have boiling water on my skin than boiling sugar (actually rather have neither)
cheers
Darren


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## Borret (6/8/05)

Darren said:


> Borret,
> You are right I have no basis for this claim other than I have noticed that thin mashes lose more heat than thick mashes.
> Maybe the grain is in itself an better insulator of heat?
> You can simply test this yourself with a bowl of water and a bowl of mashed grain on your sink. The bowl of water will be cold well before the bowl of mashed grain.
> ...



Interesting observation. 
Have you actually done the bowl of water test? If this is so I would put it down to the waters ability to create convection currents as cooling and hence have a more dynamic cooling. The mash wouldn't allow this and would be sort of self insultaing in that regard. I don't know if this would be the case between a thick and thin mash though. I would have though that once grain was saturated and surrounded by fluid it would have similar thermal mass to water. The sugar concentration in the mash may affect it though I surpose and this would be different in a thick/thin mash.
I am not trying to pick holes in your theory, on the contary I am just interested as to why it would be so.

Borret


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## Darren (6/8/05)

Borret,
Being a scientist i do all sorts of crazy experiments. So yes, I have done the bowl test. Its a bit like biting into pizza and getting a piece of tomato on your lip. You know it shouldn't be hotter than the rest of the pizza but it is and seems to burns worse. It must be because it holds the heat better.
I don't have insulated mash system (kegs). I used to insulate my mash tun with camp mattresses but eventually managed to burn them when I forgot to remove them before turning on the boiler (long story).
I know now that a thin mash will drop temp real quick compared to thick mash.
(Forgive typing, I've had a few)

cheers
Darren


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## ozbrewer (7/8/05)

Ok so there are a lot of oppinions and bla bla bla about this subject......I wonder howmany posters have actually done an overnight mash, and how many are recanting information from other web sites?

I have done many overnighters, and have had a huge sucess with it. The only time i have problems is when mashing wheat overnight, not a good thing, it goes very sour very quick.


How i do it

1. MAsh in , Its been suggested that an initial acid rest is good, but im not to sure it makes any differance?. But i make sure i mash in with a 3:1 ratio, and fill the bulk of the tun with rice hulls.

2. In the morning, I run off the wort, bring it to 85 deg c and return it to the mash tun, then fly sparge


ITs very easy, and never realy had a problem


A few people have wondered about boiling the runoff and denaturing the enzimes?...there is no differance between doing it in the morning than when you mash out when you normally would. the reason for raising the temp is to make the wort more viscose, as i think some one allready said.


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## JasonY (7/8/05)

Thanks Ozbrewer, pretty much planning on what you say (not the acid rest) and adding an extra blanket to keep it warm. Hoping to mash this week. 

For what it is worth I will post back with how the mash goes and what the final product ends up like.


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## Darren (7/8/05)

Oz,
I have done quite a few overnight mashes(probably 20). First one was from around 10.00pm until 8.00 am. No problems.
I then started to increase the time of the mash. As the time increased the mash began to smell. The one I did for about 14 hours smelled strongly of butyric acic. It didn't boil-off or fade in the fermenter. Even now two years after that mash it still has the "vomit" smell. The was no wheat in the grist.
So, sure mash overnight. Don't leave it for too long.
cheers
Darren


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## Vlad the Pale Aler (8/8/05)

I have done this before. roughly here

Usually batch sparging and letting the second infusion slowly drain overnight into a clean, sealed fermenter. Next night transfer to the kettle and boil as usual leaving a fair bit of crap in the fermenter.
I also have reached very high mash efficiencies using this method, refered to as 'blinking' by Randy Mosher.
You may find that you could end up with more wort than you calculated for.


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## JasonY (23/8/05)

Well I have tried this and kegged it today, should be on tap in the next two weeks for a work do. 

Mashed in at about 7:30am at 69degC (was aiming for 68 but close enuf), water to grain ratio was 3L/kg. When I got home at about 6pm (stuck at work on this day of all days!) the mash had dropped about 13degC to 56degC which I didn't think was too bad. I wrapped the mashtun in a blanket to help it out.

Drained the mash tun into the boiler, then topped up with sparge water (80degC), stirred and spagred as normal to get my pre-boil 27L. Ended up with 88% eff which is a bit higher than usual. 

No taste of larks vommit  This was an APA, with WY1272.

Fermented primary for 1 week, secondary with gelatine (it is going to be drunk young so I want to help it clear) for 1 week. Keggged today. OG = 1.054 FG = 1.014 which is about my usual attenuation for this beer and yeast.

On racking and kegging the samples tasted great so it looks to be a success for me. Beer will be drunk in two weeks so I will post back to confirm it was fine. Anyway I know others already do this but this was my first crack at it and I would recommend it to those who may be challenged for w/end time. I wouldn't say it saves you any time compared to a usual brew but it was convenient.

Thanks for the advise from all.

<insert crappy graph>


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## johnno (23/8/05)

Thanks for the info JasonY.
The way my efficiencies have been going I may need to give this a shot. Also save some time on brewday.

johnno


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## Darren (23/8/05)

Mashed in at about 7:30am at 69degC 

No taste of larks vommit  This was an APA, with WY1272.

Hi Jason,
What was the total time of your mash?
If you get larks vomit it will be very obvious before you ferment.
Actually I did't find the butyric acid smell all that offensive. Almost sweet.
D


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## Batz (23/8/05)

Great Jason
Be interested to hear the results , only one way to prove or disprove these things :beerbang: 

Please keep us posted

Batz


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## JasonY (23/8/05)

Darren said:


> What was the total time of your mash?



10.5 hours so not extreme but very practical in terms of my work day or if I was to try it overnight.

I would still prefer to brew in one day as I normally do however this seems a good alternative if I can't get the time.


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## JasonY (3/9/05)

Well I sampled a pint last night and can now say that this beer is fine. My only criticism is that I should have added a few more hops at flameout but that is a recipe issue nothing to do with the mash.

As far as APAs go this one is as good as any I have brewed, it finishes nice and crisp which could be either due to the long mash making it more fermentable or the fact that I used a new smack pack and had a nice big healthy starter (my moneys on the second one). Beer was very bright as well after just two weeks in the keg.

Anyway, I will be doing this again as I need. The whole keg is set to be consumed today so I will be full of it tonight.


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## Hoops (3/9/05)

I have mashed overnight once before and it turned out an awesome beer. In the morning when I opened the mash tun it smelled awesome so no larks vomit there  

Something I will try again when I am short on time or lazy.

Hoops


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## Hopsta (3/9/05)

I'm wanting to try this but before i do i must ask..... what is "larks vomit" is it just the stench of vomit or what?........


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## JasonY (3/9/05)

Leave your spent grain in your mash tun for a night or two and there will be no need to explain!  A smell is worth 1,000,000 words.


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## Kai (3/9/05)

Hopsta, puke your guts up then mash up some dead birds and mix them in. Leave that in the summer sun for a day.

It won't be exactly right but it will be a good approximation.


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## Hopsta (4/9/05)

mmm rottenbirdspew ale....


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## Trough Lolly (25/3/06)

Just bringing an old topic out of semi-retirement...  

I'm gonna have a go at my first overnight mash tonight. It's a simple pils with Weyermann Pilsener malt and some Weyermann Caramunich II - Hallertau and Hersbrucker hopped. I'll mash in around 68C and sit the esky on the kitchen bench, on top of the heater pad I used to use with my fermenter back in the bad old days when I fermented everything at 26C :blink: !!

Hopefully the heater pad will help offset the temp drop in the esky mashtun overnight and at least I won't yell at the kids for waking up Dad at 5:30am on a Sunday morning!  I'll wrap a heavy towel or two over the top and sides of the mashtun.

I'll ferment with Wyeast 2124 which I've been building up over the last few days.

Will report back tomorrow on how it went.

Cheers,
Rowan


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## Trough Lolly (26/3/06)

Well, it's all done and in the lager fridge.

The mash went well - no funky smells and a quick taste of the mash was fine - no lactic infection detected but plenty of malty brew potential present. Dunno whether it was me or not, but the brew seemed to smell richer and sparged a lot easier after an 8 hour mash...

Mashed in at 66C and a reading in the morning was 48C - a bit low but I'm sure I got good conversion.

Promash told me I'd get an SG of 1.050 and ended up with 1.052 which converted to just on 80%...so I'm happy!

And finishing brewday at 11:30 in the morning means more beers in the arvo! Beaudy....

TL


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## yardy (26/3/06)

Trough Lolly said:


> Well, it's all done and in the lager fridge.
> 
> The mash went well - no funky smells and a quick taste of the mash was fine - no lactic infection detected but plenty of malty brew potential present.
> 
> ...




hey TL,

no AG yet but content with the partials i've been putting down,

A couple of things if you don't mind,

how do you detect a Lactic Infection and what lt/kg ratio do you use ?

cheers

yardy


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## Trough Lolly (26/3/06)

G'day Yardy,
There's a risk that overextending the mash and dropping mash temps below 50C will encourage the growth of Lactobacillus and other bacteria. Lactobacillus is a major component of soured mashes and some swear by it when they make Guinness Stout clones when they want an acidic "tang" to the flavour profile. 

I didn't notice any of the "tang" in my mash and the grains smelt fine after the sparge...

As for litres per kilo, I tend to stick around the 2.3 litres per kilo ratio when I mash in - it works fine for me....The best article I've ever read on mashing is on the Pensans website - click here if you want to read it...

Cheers,
TL


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## yardy (26/3/06)

Trough Lolly said:


> G'day Yardy,
> There's a risk that overextending the mash and dropping mash temps below 50C will encourage the growth of Lactobacillus and other bacteria. Lactobacillus is a major component of soured mashes and some swear by it when they make Guinness Stout clones when they want an acidic "tang" to the flavour profile.
> 
> I didn't notice any of the "tang" in my mash and the grains smelt fine after the sparge...
> ...




thanks TL,

i appreciate the advice

cheers

yardy


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## johnno (13/5/06)

In the interests of saving some time in the morning and of course furthering the scientific study of beer, I have just mashed in and intend to do at least a 12 hour overnight mash.

Very basic grain bill.

5.50 kg Powells Pilsner (Powells Malts) (3.0 EBC) Grain 91.4 % 
0.30 kg Powells Wheat (Powells Malts) (2.0 EBC) Grain 5.0 % 
0.22 kg Powells Caramalt (Powells Malt) (22.0 EBC) Grain 3.7 % 


Hopefully will report back tomorrow with good news.

cheers
johnno


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## johnno (14/5/06)

Just finished My overnight mashbrew.

Mashed in last night at 8 pm.

Checked temp just after 8 this morning and it was at 54C. It smelt fine and the wort tasted fine as well. The only difference i could see was that the mash was a dark geyish colour. Off to the shops I went.

Came back and quickly heated water.
Started collecting the runnings at 9.30. The runnings were probably a bit more cloudy than usual.
No difference from what normally happens, the brew went ahead fine.
By the time i chilled into the fermenter the wort looked as clear as other times.

All in all a not bad method.
Depending on the outcome of the brew I may be doing this a bit more in the future.

This combined with the no chiller method and the No Brew method can only make getting beer easier than ever.  

cheers
johnno


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## yardy (14/5/06)

excellent news for the 'time challenged' brewer.  

cheers
yard


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## bindi (14/5/06)

I will try this also This week with a simple recipe overnight.
3kg Pilsner
3kg Munich
550g Wheat
150 Carra


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## T.D. (14/5/06)

I think this is interesting johnno. I'd be interested to hear what your efficiency was. I've heard that step mashes are a good way to improve the efficiency of Powells malt, and by letting the mash slowly cool from mid-high 60's to mid 50's I guess that's sort of like a step mash. That leads me to my question:

Is there a scientific reason why people tend to start at low temps and increase them when doing a step mash. I wonder because surely its easier to add cold water than hot water to a mash (filling from the tap vs going to the trouble of heating it etc). Could you consider an overnight mash that starts at 67-ish and ends at 55 a "step mash", or does it not work that way?

Cheers :beer:


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## Trough Lolly (15/5/06)

T.D. said:


> I think this is interesting johnno. I'd be interested to hear what your efficiency was. I've heard that step mashes are a good way to improve the efficiency of Powells malt, and by letting the mash slowly cool from mid-high 60's to mid 50's I guess that's sort of like a step mash. That leads me to my question:
> 
> Is there a scientific reason why people tend to start at low temps and increase them when doing a step mash. I wonder because surely its easier to add cold water than hot water to a mash (filling from the tap vs going to the trouble of heating it etc). Could you consider an overnight mash that starts at 67-ish and ends at 55 a "step mash", or does it not work that way?
> 
> ...



G'day T.D. - you pose an interesting question, that deserves a response!
There's a good reason why mash temps are raised and not lowered - it's all about denaturing enzymes. Certain enzymes are denatured (killed) at higher temps and once they're gone, they're gone. I was going to rabbit on about this at length, but have a read of this reasonably good summary from John Palmer.
Here's the link...
Cheers,
TL


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## T.D. (15/5/06)

Thanks TL, that explains it perfectly. It appears an overnight mash cannot be considered a step mash then...

Thanks for the clarification :beer:


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## johnno (15/5/06)

T.D. said:


> I'd be interested to hear what your efficiency was. Cheers :beer:
> [post="126300"][/post]​



Hi TD,
It did not make any difference to the final efficiency.
I too wondered about that while it was mashing. Just got the standard 60% efficiency I normally get with a single infusion using Powells.

cheers
johnno


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## T.D. (15/5/06)

Thanks johnno, good info to know. :beer:


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## Jim - Perth (15/5/06)

Sorry to sideline a bit but following on from TL's point & Palmer's comments, it would appear that when mashing, no harm would come from, in fact it may be beneficial, to add the water cold to the grist & then slowly bring the temp. up to around 68deg.
I have previously always heated the water to around 73deg. & then added it to the grist. Sounds like I would be better off with former approach.


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## Ross (16/5/06)

I might be forced into a boil tomorrow (still hoping for tonight).

Mashed in at 7am - ran some non-rinse through my kettle to sterilise & SHOCK, HORROR, drip, drip, drip, from under the kettle. Took me 2hrs to dismantle the frame work (mine works on a hoist mechanism), to discover the brass fitting in the bottom of the kettle which had been silver soldered to the S/S kettle had given way  . The kettle is now at a S/S fabricating shop, having the brass fitting exchanged for S/S & welded properly - Guess I'm lucky I discovered before the wort went in. Looks like being a minimum 12hr mash & possibly 24hr.

S**t happens...

Cheers Ross


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## warrenlw63 (16/5/06)

Nearly as importantly Ross, I may have mis-read or it could even be a stupid question. Why do you sterilise your kettle? :blink: 

Warren -


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## Ross (16/5/06)

warrenlw63 said:


> Nearly as importantly Ross, I may have mis-read or it could even be a stupid question. Why do you sterilise your kettle? :blink:
> 
> Warren -
> [post="126769"][/post]​



Warren,

Not so much the kettle, as the fittings that come off it, that are not subjected to the boil. Also makes sure that no cocky's or mud wasps have plugged up any of the pipes :unsure: . Nearly didn't bother this time, as I've just knocked up a "Jamil" style wort recirculator/whirlpooler to a small DC march pump, was just going to run this for 10 mins at end of boil, lucky heh  ...

Guess I'll be trialling my torch light by the time my kettle arrives back.

cheers Ross


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## Trough Lolly (16/5/06)

Jim - Perth said:


> Sorry to sideline a bit but following on from TL's point & Palmer's comments, it would appear that when mashing, no harm would come from, in fact it may be beneficial, to add the water cold to the grist & then slowly bring the temp. up to around 68deg.
> I have previously always heated the water to around 73deg. & then added it to the grist. Sounds like I would be better off with former approach.
> [post="126491"][/post]​



Hi Jim,
By all means, join in!!
The concept of mashing from cold is worth further consideration - I'm thinking about doing this with a HERMS and it kicks off at around 30C and goes up to saccharification temps from there...I see a real benefit in having an auto protein rest with this technique, but the downside is a potentially long mash since the HERMS will only raise the temp a degree or two per minute - note, I have a Rubbermaid 10 Gal cooler that doesn't like having a burner under it and I'd need a divorce lawyer if I even hinted at an immersion element!! But then again, whilst the mash duration may be long, our malts nowadays are very well modified and most of the starch conversion is done and dusted within 30 minutes or sooner.
From my reading on starch conversion rates, you can plunge the grist into 70C plus mash liquor, or vice versa without denaturing the enzymes instantly. From memory, it takes at least a few mins (don't have the tech paper handy) for the conversion to kick off chemically, in which time you could easily bring the mashtemp down with cold tap water and a jug, if necessary.

Edit: removed the kettle question as Ross had already answered!!

Cheers,
TL


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## warrenlw63 (16/5/06)

Ross said:


> Not so much the kettle, as the fittings that come off it, that are not subjected to the boil. Also makes sure that no cocky's or mud wasps have plugged up any of the pipes :unsure: . Nearly didn't bother this time, as I've just knocked up a "Jamil" style wort recirculator/whirlpooler to a small DC march pump, was just going to run this for 10 mins at end of boil, lucky heh  ...
> [post="126771"][/post]​




Ah! With you now.  

Warren -


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## Jim - Perth (16/5/06)

TL
My divorce potential derives more from splashing sticky wort up kitchen walls & floors as happened on Sat. with a fairly full-on partial mash.
I rarely do more than a 12L All grain & use a 20L SS pot for these & my partials. 
Next time I'm going to try bringing the mash up from 0 to 68deg.
Will let you know what happens.
Jim


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## Darren (16/5/06)

Hey, 
I would be interested to hear from anyone who noticed anything stramge after mashing for 12 hours or more!
I have done quite a few overnights with varied success. What I did notice with extending the time between mash-in and sparge were what could be described as "increases in maltiness" during the boil.
I boil downstairs and the smell from the boil is able to permeate throughout the house and is smelled by all occupants. One (the last) 12 hour mash created quite an interesting smell, although I wouldn't describe it as "off" but more malty. The more that I smelled it in the house the more I recognised it as butyric acid. Am I alone in this experience?

cheers
Darren


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## Crazy (16/5/06)

Ross said:


> I might be forced into a boil tomorrow (still hoping for tonight).
> 
> Mashed in at 7am - ran some non-rinse through my kettle to sterilise & SHOCK, HORROR, drip, drip, drip, from under the kettle. Took me 2hrs to dismantle the frame work (mine works on a hoist mechanism), to discover the brass fitting in the bottom of the kettle which had been silver soldered to the S/S kettle had given way  . The kettle is now at a S/S fabricating shop, having the brass fitting exchanged for S/S & welded properly - Guess I'm lucky I discovered before the wort went in. Looks like being a minimum 12hr mash & possibly 24hr.
> 
> ...



Ah I thought I recognised the kettle when I dropped into a mates workshop this afternoon. And we were talking about the local home brewers and all.

Derrick


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## Bobby (16/5/06)

mmmm.....butyric acid


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## Darren (16/5/06)

Bobby said:


> mmmm.....butyric acid
> [post="126847"][/post]​




Actually it wasn't "off" smelling. BTW it persisted through the boil and ferment aging. Ie it never went away. Smelled better in the boil than tasted in the bottle


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## Ross (16/5/06)

Ross said:


> I might be forced into a boil tomorrow (still hoping for tonight).
> 
> Mashed in at 7am - ran some non-rinse through my kettle to sterilise & SHOCK, HORROR, drip, drip, drip, from under the kettle. Took me 2hrs to dismantle the frame work (mine works on a hoist mechanism), to discover the brass fitting in the bottom of the kettle which had been silver soldered to the S/S kettle had given way  . The kettle is now at a S/S fabricating shop, having the brass fitting exchanged for S/S & welded properly - Guess I'm lucky I discovered before the wort went in. Looks like being a minimum 12hr mash & possibly 24hr.
> 
> ...




Well, just had my worst sparge ever, like Brisbane mud water, we have just come to the boil, working by torchlight & surrounded by flying bugs - Going to gladwrap the kettle after flame out & do the no chill method overnight, hopefully it'll be cool by morning as I've another brew to put down.
Been my worst brew day ever...  

Hope the beers not my best, I'd never be able to replicate it  

Cheers Ross


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## Darren (16/5/06)

Ross said:


> Ross said:
> 
> 
> > I might be forced into a boil tomorrow (still hoping for tonight).
> ...





How does the boil smell Ross? Any different?

cheers
Darren


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## bindi (16/5/06)

Sorry hear Ross, now to gloat  I mashed out today after 16 hours [4 more than expected  ] and boiled what looks a great brew [looks ,smells and tasted great] and easy as  refrac read 18 another bigish beer and a no chill as well, pitch sometime tomorrow or the day after.
Got to have an easy one sometime,hey?


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## Ross (16/5/06)

Darren said:


> How does the boil smell Ross? Any different?
> 
> cheers
> Darren
> [post="126855"][/post]​



The wort tasted the same, The smell i couldn't tell as the keg got marked with paint (off inside of my boot) during my travels & this was burning off during the boil...
As I said - not a good day...

Cheers Ross


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## Ross (16/5/06)

Finally finished,

Glad wrapped the kettle & sprayed water around the outside to cool things down a bit - Unfortunately my kettle is insulated, So I may still have 70c wort in the morning  - Here's hoping not...

Cheers Ross


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## browndog (16/5/06)

Never mind Ross, these things build character  BTW, does a cloudy wort have any effect on the final product ? The way I see it the wort gets all clouded up by the microscopic hop particles floating around in it and the cloudiness eventually settles out in the fermenter right?


cheers

Browndog


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## Ross (16/5/06)

browndog said:


> Never mind Ross, these things build character  BTW, does a cloudy wort have any effect on the final product ? The way I see it the wort gets all clouded up by the microscopic hop particles floating around in it and the cloudiness eventually settles out in the fermenter right?
> 
> 
> cheers
> ...



I've found it makes no difference at all - The sample i drew from todays brew has cleared beautifully upon chilling.

Cheers Ross


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## Pumpy (17/5/06)

Ross said:


> I might be forced into a boil tomorrow (still hoping for tonight).
> 
> Mashed in at 7am - ran some non-rinse through my kettle to sterilise & SHOCK, HORROR, drip, drip, drip, from under the kettle. Took me 2hrs to dismantle the frame work (mine works on a hoist mechanism), to discover the brass fitting in the bottom of the kettle which had been silver soldered to the S/S kettle had given way  . The kettle is now at a S/S fabricating shop, having the brass fitting exchanged for S/S & welded properly - Guess I'm lucky I discovered before the wort went in. Looks like being a minimum 12hr mash & possibly 24hr.
> 
> ...



 Will your stock hold out till it gets fixed Ross?  

Pumpy


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## T.D. (17/5/06)

Ross said:


> Hope the beers not my best, I'd never be able to replicate it
> 
> Cheers Ross
> [post="126851"][/post]​



These sorts of brews have a habit of being absolute crackers though - any brew that I have thought I had totally stuffed up have turned out beautifully. Its always the way!


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## KoNG (17/5/06)

Ross said:


> Finally finished,
> 
> Glad wrapped the kettle & sprayed water around the outside to cool things down a bit - Unfortunately my kettle is insulated, So I may still have 70c wort in the morning  - Here's hoping not...
> 
> ...



Morning Ross,
i find if i rack my hot wort to cubes and leave them outside on the concrete over night, they are at 18*C in the morning ready for pitching. Might save gladwrapping and hosing your insulated kettle (just quitely, why is your kettle insulated..??).

What are you going to name the beer... something along the lines of a problem child may suit..?!?!


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## Ross (17/5/06)

KoNG said:


> Morning Ross,
> i find if i rack my hot wort to cubes and leave them outside on the concrete over night, they are at 18*C in the morning ready for pitching. Might save gladwrapping and hosing your insulated kettle (just quitely, why is your kettle insulated..??).
> 
> What are you going to name the beer... something along the lines of a problem child may suit..?!?!
> [post="126957"][/post]​



Kong,

Was still at 42c this morning, transferred to fermenter & in the freezer chilling.
There were to many bugs flying round the light & bombarding the kettle, I just wanted to get it sealed pronto & call it a day, also i didn't have a sterilised cube available at the time. The kettle was insulated when I got it, certainly doesn't take much flame to keep it on a nice rolling boil, so guess it serves a purpose.
As for a name, I'll have to give some thought  ...

Cheers Ross


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## Fish (5/11/07)

ozbrewer said:


> Ok so there are a lot of oppinions and bla bla bla about this subject......I wonder howmany posters have actually done an overnight mash, and how many are recanting information from other web sites?
> 
> I have done many overnighters, and have had a huge sucess with it. The only time i have problems is when mashing wheat overnight, not a good thing, it goes very sour very quick.
> How i do it
> ...



Ozbrewer or others - have you always had issues with wheat mashes overnight? I'm thinking approx. 6-8 hours 50/50 wheat/pilsener malt.

Cheer 
Fish


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