# No Chill Technique



## Julez (18/3/08)

Evening fellow brewers, 

Just got myself a 20L cube and will be testing it out for a no-chill this weekend. Rather than let it just cool of its own volition, I will turf it into a freezer to get to pitching temp a little quicker. 

I'm fairly sure I have read on AHB previously, most of you no-chillers out there fill the cube right up to the brim before sealing it up. Is this the case and should I also do this if putting it in the freezer? Is the reason for filling it right up to prevent implosion as the wort shrinks during cooling? 

Just trying to get my head around this process....

Cheers :icon_cheers:


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## chiller (18/3/08)

Julez said:


> Evening fellow brewers,
> 
> Just got myself a 20L cube and will be testing it out for a no-chill this weekend. Rather than let it just cool of its own volition, I will turf it into a freezer to get to pitching temp a little quicker.
> 
> ...



Julez I don't no chill but the other day my chiller only got the brew to 36c so I put it in the freezer for about 2 or so hours to get to pitching temperature. Mine was in the normal fermenter with an air lock. I do that for many of my brews especially in Summer.

Steve


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## Hogan (18/3/08)

Julez said:


> Evening fellow brewers,
> 
> Just got myself a 20L cube and will be testing it out for a no-chill this weekend. Rather than let it just cool of its own volition, I will turf it into a freezer to get to pitching temp a little quicker.
> 
> ...




Hi Julez - the no chill method and cubes mainly relates to those brewers who are going to leave the wort in the cube for a period of time ie. weeks, months, prior to pitching. If all you require is that your wort be brought down to pitching temperature overnight without resorting to a CFC then there is no need to worry about head space etc - just so long as you intend to pitch the following day. Even in Brisbane temps you could leave the wort in the kettle and by the following morning it will have cooled considerably - then rack it to your fermenter and bring down to pitching temp in the freezer if necessary. There is a lot more info that you can access in the search facility.

Cheers, Hoges.


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## KHB (18/3/08)

The reason for getting the wort up to the brim by filling it to there or squeezing is to get all the oxygen out to stop infection occuring, as most no chillers leave it outside overnight.

I just did my 1st no chill and this was how i did it.


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## Julez (18/3/08)

Thanks for the comments guys. 

The reason I will be using the cube, as opposed to just putting my whole fermenter in the fridge, is that the temp differential between fridge and fermenter full of hot wort causes back-flow of air-lock fluids. Also, by using the cube, I can just squeeze it into the freezer section, so I can get it cooled down that little bit quicker. I wonder if it will be quick enough to get a cold break :lol:


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## oldbugman (18/3/08)

KHB said:


> as most no chillers leave it outside overnight.



Dont forget over winter you can bring them inside to heat your rooms and save on power bills.


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## Cortez The Killer (19/3/08)

When you no chill simply rack the still hot wort to the cube

Squeeze to get as much air out as possible (I've had significant head space in cubes and haven't had any ill affects) and seal it

It will suck the sides of the cube in further as it cools (4% shrinkage) 

I don't see any point in putting it into the freezer - your fridge will work overtime to cool down and be a massive drain on the compressor (plus the fridge being insulated will be counter productive to cooling) 

Also once the cube is sealed up it'll last for months (much like fresh wort packs)

From memory a brewer on AHB was throwng the cube into the pool to cool down - the rapid deceased in temp lead to infection as the hot wort wasn't given time to kill any natsties in the cube whilst the wort was warm - as such the practice was abandoned

So simply leave the cube outside to cool and it'll be right throw into the fermenter with the yeast the next day

Cheers


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## browndog (19/3/08)

Julez, if you are going to pitch ASAP, don't bother racking into a cube, you are just adding uneccessary work. If you are worried about the airlock, just remove it or use it empty with a piece of gladwrap loosely fixed over it. What I do is, rack off the kettle straight to my fermenter (plenty of headspace) let it sit to cool overnight, it gets down to about 26-28C by morning. Then put it in the fermenting fridge, by the afternoon it is down to 18C and time to pitch. I don't think putting your hot wort in the fridge or freezer will do it any good and you won't be saving that much time. FWIW I don't use airlocks, I have a thermowell where the airlock was.

cheers

Browndog


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## therook (19/3/08)

OldBugman said:


> Dont forget over winter you can bring them inside to heat your rooms and save on power bills.



What a great idea, i wonder what the missus will think, a cube full of hot wort under the doona instead of the electric blanket :lol: 

Rook


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## Fatgodzilla (19/3/08)

therook said:


> What a great idea, i wonder what the missus will think, a cube full of hot wort under the doona instead of the electric blanket :lol:
> 
> Rook




I don't think I'd try it with my missus cos

1. She'll have something large and warm to cuddle that won't take it as time for sex
2. The cube won't snore all night
3. The cube can be kicked out of bed and not complain
4. The cube won't wake her up in the middle of the night to go to the toilet.


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## Wardhog (19/3/08)

I run my hot wort into a sanitised (don't know how necessary this is, but I do it anyway) Bunnings water drum to about 3/4 full, whack the lid on and let it sit overnight. I ALWAYS pitch the next day once cooled, and haven't lost a batch yet due to this - I've lost batches, but for other reasons. I splash the cooled wort the next day into the intended fermentation barrel, I also use this time to make a starter out of the actual wort overnight before pitching.
I wouldn't want to store wort this way for more than 18 hours, but it suits my purposes.


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## dicko (19/3/08)

Julez said:


> Thanks for the comments guys.
> 
> The reason I will be using the cube, as opposed to just putting my whole fermenter in the fridge, is that the temp differential between fridge and fermenter full of hot wort causes back-flow of air-lock fluids. Also, by using the cube, I can just squeeze it into the freezer section, so I can get it cooled down that little bit quicker. I wonder if it will be quick enough to get a cold break :lol:



If sucking back through an air lock is a problem get an airlock and sanitise it as normal then get a small wad of cotton wool and soak it in metho or alcohol and push it into the top of the lock. As long as you are only leaving it in the fridge while it cools to pitching temp then this seems to work OK for me.
FWIW I rack mine into another cube once it is cool to achieve aeration.

Cheers


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## Julez (19/3/08)

Some great comments there, thanks all. 

I like the idea of the airlock with some alcohol-soaked cotton wool. Though I suppose it is pretty hard on the fridge/freezer if I put my container full of hot wort straight in there, whether cube or fermenter. 

I think I will go with the majority and just no chill in my cube overnight. It is an extra step to take, in terms of another vessel to sanitize, but I think worth it. I'm sure my fridge will thank me in the long run. 

Glad I asked this question, cheers.


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## geoffi (19/3/08)

I throw the cubes straight in the pool. Even in the middle of summer that gets them down to 26 or so pretty quick smart.


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## browndog (19/3/08)

> I think I will go with the majority and just no chill in my cube overnight. It is an extra step to take, in terms of another vessel to sanitize, but I think worth it. I'm sure my fridge will thank me in the long run.



Julez, you don't need to use a cube, just go straight from the kettle to your fermenter!

cheers

Browndog


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## PostModern (19/3/08)

Geoffi said:


> I throw the cubes straight in the pool. Even in the middle of summer that gets them down to 26 or so pretty quick smart.



Provided you pitch quick, that'd be fine. Ask Scotty about his rapid chilled efforts 

Time at temperature is needed for sanitation. Cool too quickly and you won't destroy spoilage organism spores, so you need an active healthy load of yeast in there to take over ASAP.


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## Cortez The Killer (19/3/08)

Sealing the cube also means that should you for some reason not be able to pitch the yeast the next day - you can store the wort until you have time to do so

Also allows you to do multiple batches in a single day / week and not have to have them all fermenting at once

There's a thread somewhere which talks about the length of time no-chillers have stored wort without ill affects

SAH stored one batch for a year plus before fermenting - with good results

Cheers


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## Beejay (19/3/08)

PostModern said:


> Provided you pitch quick, that'd be fine. Ask Scotty about his rapid chilled efforts
> 
> Time at temperature is needed for sanitation. Cool too quickly and you won't destroy spoilage organism spores, so you need an active healthy load of yeast in there to take over ASAP.



So true PoMo. I am no expert on pasteurisation, but I would expect that 30 mins to 1 hour at the kettle temp and those spores would be gone, and then you could utilise a pool to cool quickly from then on. Mind you, you would need to be mindful about quality of the pool water too as there are lots of lovelies in there. Pool water may contain chlorine, but she ain't no santised environment. You would need to carefully sanitise the outside of the cube, especially around the lid, prior to opening.

For me, the appeal of no chill is the ability to do a double boil of beer in a brew day & cube both. The next day (or when it suits as you might be waiting for your yeast starter for example) you can throw one in the fermenter and beer is on its way. But the real plus is that 2 weeks down the track you can simply sanitise another fermenter and pitch the next cube, or even pitch the second cube on top of the yeast waiting in the fermenter after fermentation of cube 1. How easy is that!!! You have got to love Fresh Wort kits for a quick and easy beer, and they are even better when they are your own beer.


PS. Don't be worried either about break material in the bottom of the cube as this also provides the yeasties with some nutrients.

Cheers,

Beejay


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## ozpowell (19/3/08)

Julez said:


> I like the idea of the airlock with some alcohol-soaked cotton wool.



I just use a little cheap vodka to fill the airlock - problem solved.

Cheers,
Michael.


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## Julez (19/3/08)

browndog said:


> Julez, you don't need to use a cube, just go straight from the kettle to your fermenter!
> 
> cheers
> 
> Browndog




Thanks Browndog. Yeah I suppose so....though I also like the idea of some violent pouring from cube to fermenter to aerate. Saves stuffing around with the airlock then and trying to shake a heavy fermenter (I don't have an air stone, etc). And if I want, I can let it cool in the cube naturally, but then finish it in the freezer, if I feel so inclined. 

I definitely need to ponder this further....too many options :wacko:


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## Ross (19/3/08)

I just pour straight into the fermenter put in fridge & let cool overnight. I don't see the fridge really working overtime to speak of...the main fridge thermostat cuts in & out as it cools.
If you are using dried yeast, dont worry about aeration, I haven't aerated one in over 12 months.

Cheers Ross


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## kevnlis (19/3/08)

Not sure I entirely agree with your "dry yeast" statement Ross.

If you are using a respectable 12g Danstar/Fermentis sachet this would be fine.

For kit yeast and smaller 6g sachets I would still aerate just to be safe...


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## browndog (19/3/08)

I've never bothered with aeration. I brewed a beer to 1.080 on friday, pitched a cup of slurry from a previous brew on saturday arvo and by sunday arvo there was krauzen leaking down the side of the fermenter. This certainly would not have happened if the yeast were starved of oxygen.

cheers

Browndog


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## Ross (19/3/08)

kevnlis said:


> Not sure I entirely agree with your "dry yeast" statement Ross.
> 
> If you are using a respectable 12g Danstar/Fermentis sachet this would be fine.
> 
> For kit yeast and smaller 6g sachets I would still aerate just to be safe...



My answer was to Julez, who is not making kit beers...

That aside, 6gms is really underpitching & I personally wouldn't not recommend anyone pitching a single sachet, & yes, aeration would probably help in this case. If pitching at the correct numbers though, extra oxygen is not needed.

cheers Ross


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## BOG (19/3/08)

I no chill using the following method and it works for me.

I dump the entire kettle including trub in to the Fermentor. Basically as the fermentor has a wide mouth and I have no tap on the kettle yet
Wait about an hour for the trub to settle and use the fermentor tap and racking cane to fill the cube. Trub stay below the tap and not into the cube.

The cube sits on the cold concrete overnight and looses most of the heat. Placing straight in the fridge give the poor old fridge a heart attack.

Next day, in the morning I make the starter and place the cool cube in the freezer section of the fridge.

By the afternoon the the starter is ready, the cube is very cool and the gap below the tap on the cube is now full of break material.

I fill the fermentor with the racking cane again. and away we go.

For heavy grav beer I get the kitchen wisk and wisk up a krausen like froth then pitch.

works fine every time. Airlock Bubbles in less than an hour.

BOG


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## kevnlis (19/3/08)

Ross said:


> My answer was to Julez, who is not making kit beers...
> 
> That aside, 6gms is really underpitching & I personally wouldn't not recommend anyone pitching a single sachet, & yes, aeration would probably help in this case. If pitching at the correct numbers though, extra oxygen is not needed.
> 
> cheers Ross



Sorry mate, not havin a go.

I am aware that you were making a reply to Julez, just did not want people to think that all dry yeast can be pitched without aeration of the wort.

Most kit brewers will use aerated tap water that will be dumped into the fermentor and will have aerated the wort without knowing it anyway.

Back on topic, I have the bits to fit a tap to my kettle, I have just been too scared to drill the hole. It would be very convenient to do no-chill batches and have them ready to go when I need to fill a fermentor.

I might just suck it up and drill the bloody hole one day


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## Julez (19/3/08)

Ross said:


> I just pour straight into the fermenter put in fridge & let cool overnight. I don't see the fridge really working overtime to speak of...the main fridge thermostat cuts in & out as it cools.
> If you are using dried yeast, dont worry about aeration, I haven't aerated one in over 12 months.
> 
> Cheers Ross



Thanks Ross - I did do exactly this for my last two batches and it worked fine (with the exception of air-lock back-flow). But there are a number of great suggestions for overcoming that in this thread. 

There are definite pros and cons with the various approaches, but they all seem to work for the most part, if all these comments are representative of the brewing populous. I think either the cube method or fermenter method would do the trick, just have to put all these pearls of wisdom in the context of my own brewing objectives and I will have myself an answer (when I have more time to go through it all properly) B) 

Cheers to everyone and have a happy brewing long weekend :beer: 
Julez.


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## Steve (19/3/08)

Ross said:


> I just pour straight into the fermenter put in fridge & let cool overnight. I don't see the fridge really working overtime to speak of...the main fridge thermostat cuts in & out as it cools.
> If you are using dried yeast, dont worry about aeration, I haven't aerated one in over 12 months.
> 
> Cheers Ross




Same here but I just leave it overnight on the garage floor with airlock in place with no liquid in it. Top up with tap water in the morning from the kitchen kettle (if I need too), sprinkle in yeast, quick stir with a fork and into the fridge. Easy
Cheers
Steve


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## KHB (19/3/08)

Julez said:


> Thanks Browndog. Yeah I suppose so....though I also like the idea of some violent pouring from cube to fermenter to aerate. Saves stuffing around with the airlock then and trying to shake a heavy fermenter (I don't have an air stone, etc). And if I want, I can let it cool in the cube naturally, but then finish it in the freezer, if I feel so inclined.
> 
> I definitely need to ponder this further....too many options :wacko:




I dont like the idea of chilling in a fermenter you cant get all the oxygen out which is what you are trying to do


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## jimmyjack (19/3/08)

> dump the entire kettle including trub in to the Fermentor. Basically as the fermentor has a wide mouth and I have no tap on the kettle yet
> Wait about an hour for the trub to settle and use the fermentor tap and racking cane to fill the cube. Trub stay below the tap and not into the cube.


Way too much work involved here. I think you may have too many points of contact here. Just rack trub and all to fermenter and pitch next day when temps are down, If trub is bothering you transfer to secondary at a later time. Alleviates any excess exposure to baddies if you know what I mean. I transfer everything to fermenter and have been known to even dry hop in the same vessel without any spoilage issues.

Cheers, JJ


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## Julez (19/3/08)

KHB said:


> I dont like the idea of chilling in a fermenter you cant get all the oxygen out which is what you are trying to do



Interesting point. Assuming this is because of potential air-borne nasties? I would have thought they would get pretty well nuked by pasteurisation from the hot wort, though this doesn't kill everything. From Wikipedia:

*"Pasteurization* (or *pasteurisation*) is the process of heating liquids for the purpose of destroying viruses and harmful organisms such as bacteria, protozoa, molds, and yeasts. ......

Unlike sterilisation, pasteurisation is not intended to kill all micro-organisms (pathogenic) in the food or liquid. Instead, pasteurisation aims to achieve a "logarithmic reduction" in the number of viable organisms, reducing their number so they are unlikely to cause disease"

Does anyone know what bugs could survive in a sealed fermenter filled with hot wort straight from the kettle in a 12hr pre-pitching window, that would be subject to this pasteurising effect? Is this a realistic threat to my beloved golden liquid?


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## afromaiko (19/3/08)

Don't worry about using an airlock at all while it's chilling in a fermenter, just cover the hole with a piece of tape. I just stick a bit of duct tape over the hole, leaving the grommet there too. Rub it down so it sticks well, I've never had a problem.


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## Darren (19/3/08)

Ross said:


> I just pour straight into the fermenter put in fridge & let cool overnight. I don't see the fridge really working overtime to speak of...the main fridge thermostat cuts in & out as it cools.
> 
> Cheers Ross



Ross,

Forgive me if I have read you post wrong but this is just plain stupid. Why would you not leave it overnight at room temp then throw in the fridge?. Putting hot wort in a fridge would waste/pollute water at the power plant and generate excess CO2 (the additional electricity required).

As one of your country folk once said, please explain??

Cheers

Darren


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## browndog (19/3/08)

KHB said:


> I dont like the idea of chilling in a fermenter you cant get all the oxygen out which is what you are trying to do



KHB, if you read the all the thread then you would know we are not talking about storing the wort for any length of time, rather, cooling it overnight and pitching the next day. In this situation, if you rack from the kettle straight to the fermenter, the headspace in your fermenter is going to get to the same temp as your wort, ie 80-90C. You do not have to worry about infection in such a short time, IMHO you have more chance of getting an infection using an immersion or inline chiller.

cheers

Browndog

PS; I vote Derwood is banned from posting in any NC thread


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## winkle (19/3/08)

This is my process, assuming an afternoon brew session. 
Fame out, whirlpool, wait 15 minutes then fill cube. If its not totally full I don't worry but will ensure that the wort comes into reasonable contact with all surfaces. 
Have one or two pints then move cube to the steps bit of the pool and put it on the top step.
Drink a few more pints then remove it and shove it in the fridge when luke-ish warm.
Sleep the sleep of the just, then pitch yeast on an 15-18C wort early morning.
Works for me  .


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## lobo (11/4/08)

hi all,

i was just about to spend the evening making an immersion chiller, (im a plumber) and was looking on the site to find out ideal lengths etc, and have now become a convert to the 'no chill' method. looks much easier.

i will be brewing tomorrow (sat morn)
i have a couple of questions. no one has asked wether the plastic gives off anything into the beer at these high temps??

and more importantly, would it be an issue as im a partial masher. i end up having to top up with about7-8l cold water. would this bring the temp down and give more of a chance to bacteria? i will be puting it into a fermenter, just overnight. or shuld i add the waterthe next morn, creating oxygen, then pitch my yeast. (usually dry)

any help/thoughts would be appreciated.

cheers

Lobo


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## browndog (11/4/08)

lobo said:


> hi all,
> 
> i was just about to spend the evening making an immersion chiller, (im a plumber) and was looking on the site to find out ideal lengths etc, and have now become a convert to the 'no chill' method. looks much easier.
> 
> ...



Hi Lobo, 
nobody has mentioned any bad experiences with plastic, I can't say for sure, but I would not be too concerned if I were you as long as you are using food grade fermenter or cube. As for your other question, as long as you are using preboiled cold water (which you would for a chilled wort anyway) you will be OK. You could do it either way you mentioned and it should not matter as long as you are pitching by the afternoon of the following day. 

cheers

Browndog


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## Darren (11/4/08)

Lobo,

If you are a plumber, make a counterflow chiller. If no-chill was the ducks-nuts it would have been adopted as best practice well before the internet called its praise.

There are several negatives to no-chill. As you hve noted, leaching of plastics from cubes filled for hours with hot wort would be one major problem (just because you dont drop dead after four no-chills is not evidence enough for me that there is no problem with it). Heat resistent spoilage organisms throughout your brewery/bottles/kegs is the other negative.

cheers

Darren


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## Stuster (11/4/08)

Leakage of compounds from the plastic has been discussed in the (much longer) thread on no chill. Essentially, the conclusion was that there should be no issue with HDPE cubes which are food grade.

With doing a partial, I'd say you'd be best to add the cold water in the morning. As you say, if you add it the evening before you are not going to get the benefit of the hot wort in pasteurising that space and I'd say the chances of infection is higher. I'd just suggest boiling the water first and let it cool overnight as well but just in the pot (probably just what I've got used to, and it may be overkill, but I boil all water before adding it).


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## browndog (11/4/08)

> Heat resistent spoilage organisms throughout your brewery/bottles/kegs is the other negative.



and these will occurr whether you chill or not.

cheers

Browndog


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## Darren (11/4/08)

Browndog,

They will be there I agree. But in the case of no-chill, as the wort slowly moves through 50-30 C they will have significantly multiplied compared to if the wort was rapidly chilled.

cheers

Darren


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## lobo (11/4/08)

thanks for the quick reply guys.

i would make a cfc, but dont have all the gear atm. or the time. immersion would have bin easy 2night. another prob i have with a cfc, is my 'kettle' is only a 20l ss pot. no tap to connect to.

i dont have any pre boiled water. i just use tap water refilled into a 10l springwater bladder. i dont refill it very often, and am always buying new ones.

cheers

lobo


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## browndog (11/4/08)

lobo said:


> thanks for the quick reply guys.
> 
> i would make a cfc, but dont have all the gear atm. or the time. immersion would have bin easy 2night. another prob i have with a cfc, is my 'kettle' is only a 20l ss pot. no tap to connect to.
> 
> ...



Lobo, Your top up water will be dodgy either way you go. You really need to boil it first.

Julez, the reason the guys get the air out of their cubes is that if you store it for longer than a day, it will spoil due to the trapped air.

Darren, that's true, but after 80 no chills pitching the next day, I can say, I have not had a problem, I don't promote storing wort at all.

cheers

Browndog


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## Darren (11/4/08)

Hey Lobo,

I have wondered why the "No-chill brigade" have transferred to a "cube" overnight. Surley this does create a risk of "leaching plasticisers". 

If I was to no-chill, I would leave the wort in the pot overnight, then transfer to a fermenter in the morning when it was cool. But hey, 200 plastic no-chillers cant be wrong, right?

cheers

Darren


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## Screwtop (11/4/08)

Darren, I think you've turned into a pussy :lol: I've seen Chovain's retorts and you've lost ground mate, I'm in awe of the new master.

All of the news recently regarding bisphenol A and the associated reports of the chemical harming the prostate of a developing fetus, triggering early puberty when people are exposed to bisphenol A in the womb or as children. Birth defects and fertility problems after adult exposures. Your loosing your touch old mate, ya gotta keep up.

The No Chill stuff (I gave it capitals cos it's important) bad bacteria trip is a dead duck, get yourself on the leaching chemicals bandwagon.


Disclaimer for the brain dead and humor removed: Ahh say, Ahh say, that was a joke son.


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## Darren (11/4/08)

Screwie,

He who laughs last, laughs loudest.

She'll be right mate, uhu, uhu, uhu.

cheers

Darren


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## Screwtop (11/4/08)

Darren said:


> Screwie,
> 
> He who laughs last, laughs loudest.
> 
> ...




:lol: :lol: the noise is deafening, neighbours will complain. Chill old son.


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## bonj (11/4/08)

The Molecular Migration Bandwagon.... sounds like a prog-rock festival.

According to http://www.ecologycenter.org/ptf/toxins.html HDPE doesn't leech plasticisers. PVC leeches plasticisers.

HDPE: High-Density Polyethylene

What migrates from plastic container to contents: Antioxidants, BHT, Chimassorb 81, Irganox PS 800, Irganix 1076, Irganox 1010


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## lobo (11/4/08)

browndog,

are you saying that even 'bought springwater' should be boiled? or me refilling it is no good?

i have topped up all my partials with springwater, or bottled tap water (in clean coke bottles, chilled) but have always cooled my wort, then pitched asap. am i running more of a risk or its pad practice either way?

lobo


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## Darren (11/4/08)

Hey Bonj,

Not a plastic chemist but I cannot believe that hot wort for hours does not absorb chemicals.

Chill in your pot I say or else you will be like Screwtop with nothing but garbage to sprout.

cheers

Darren


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## Screwtop (11/4/08)

Darren said:


> Hey Bonj,
> 
> Not a plastic chemist but I cannot believe that hot wort for hours does not absorb chemicals.
> 
> ...




Ahhh, ya got me Das, I give. I got beer to drink and other sport to occupy my time, g'night.


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## big d (11/4/08)

Will this topic ever end. <_< 
WGAF.


Cheers
Big D


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## dr K (11/4/08)

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.
Quite simple really..the mega swill breweries make shit beer out of malted barley, hops, water, yeast, adjuncts such as sucrose, caramel and the like, most of which are not dissimilar to what real brewers use.
Being, as they are, run by bean counters they have no interest in fixing a clock that ain't broke.
But we know they make shit beer, and one of the many reasons is that they insist on using an out of date, and frankly quite ludicrous process known as "fast wort cooling".
I have no doubt at all that VB would taste much more like real beer than megaswill if the bean counters at Fosters actually let it cool naturally, the "no-chill method" rather than force cool ..force cooling may make the beer ready for sale 24 hours earlier, but is it really worth it to lose all those additional qualities that no chill brings us.. I say GO GREEN (very much what I did the last NC I tasted)

K......ermit (?)


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## lobo (11/4/08)

wgaf?


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## lobo (11/4/08)

lobo said:


> wgaf?


i get it. 

i give one. im interested. hence the q's.

lobo


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## Darren (11/4/08)

Hey Dr K,

Bullshite. Not onlty does rapid cooling hasten the production but it does also reduce the heat resistent beer spoilage burdon.

Dr D


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## dr K (11/4/08)

Sky Pilot Darren....You Animal!!!
It is law that that megaswill make shit beer.
It must be cause I read it right here...
Simple really.....no chill of sorts is actually used in many commercial breweries I might point out the coolship method used in the very best lambic brew houses....


K


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## browndog (11/4/08)

lobo said:


> browndog,
> 
> are you saying that even 'bought springwater' should be boiled? or me refilling it is no good?
> 
> ...



Sorry about all the other stuff going on in this thread Lobo, but yeah, IMHO springwater is in fact WORSE than tap water. Tap water has been treated to kill lots of the bugs that swarm in every drop. Springwater on the other hand has nothing in it, much worse to be sticking in your wort mate. If you don't believe me, take an unopened bottle of your spring water and leave it somewhere where it gets some sun, within a week, you should be seeing some nice algeal blooms coming on. You've got a big pot, boil a heap of water up and save it in the fridge for topping up your wort.

Edit:this may not apply to all springwaters, but the commercial one at my work it certainly does.

cheers

Browndog


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## Adamt (11/4/08)

Back on the topic.

I think I posted something similar in one of the other no-chill threads, not sure whether it was read or just lost in the mess. Anyway.

What is the mechanism for leaching plasticisers? Plasticisers (of which HDPE contains little or none) sit between strands of the polymer. In order for them to be available to dissolve/leach the HDPE would need to deform. If your cube starts to obviously change shape I would not continue to use it. 

Any plasticisers that are on the surface of the plastic will evaporate.. that is the "new car/chinese factory" smell you get from new plastic products, so racking straight into a new cube may be a problem, though not much will dissolve in 95C wort especially if racking is nice and smooth. 

I think it's a matter of first finding out what plasticisers (if any) are in food grade HDPE cubes, in what levels, and if it is actually dangerous. Then we can start thinking about any associated plasticiser problems.


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## Inge (11/4/08)

browndog said:


> Sorry about all the other stuff going on in this thread Lobo, but yeah, IMHO springwater is in fact WORSE than tap water. Tap water has been treated to kill lots of the bugs that swarm in every drop. Springwater on the other hand has nothing in it, much worse to be sticking in your wort mate. If you don't believe me, take an unopened bottle of your spring water and leave it somewhere where it gets some sun, within a week, you should be seeing some nice algeal blooms coming on. You've got a big pot, boil a heap of water up and save it in the fridge for topping up your wort.
> 
> cheers
> 
> Browndog



 

I would have hoped it had at least been boiled before packaging!

Can you verify this?


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## lobo (11/4/08)

cheers browndog


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## browndog (11/4/08)

Inge said:


> I would have hoped it had at least been boiled before packaging!
> 
> Can you verify this?



On monday I will take a photo and post in this thread of a very well known natural springwater companys unopened 15L bottle that was seconded to use as a door chock and the insides of the bottle are absolutely green mate, you will not believe it. I will never drink from the multitude of water fountains around my work again after seeing that.

cheers

Browndog


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## dr K (11/4/08)

> On monday I will take a photo and post in this thread of a very well known natural springwater companys unopened 15L bottle that was seconded to use as a door chock and the insides of the bottle are absolutely green mate, you will not believe it.



So if a well known (hilarious joke) springwater company has problems with sealed "cubes" (or "flagons") that they actaualy distribute and sell to the public (insert public health risk and financial risk to said company somewhere) what hope does the hapless no chill freak have with a container of lovely medium for any wild yeast, bacteria and lord knows what else???

Scary enough to make one drink megaswill..

K


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## browndog (11/4/08)

dr K said:


> So if a well known (hilarious joke) springwater company has problems with sealed "cubes" (or "flagons") that they actaualy distribute and sell to the public (insert public health risk and financial risk to said company somewhere) what hope does the hapless no chill freak have with a container of lovely medium for any wild yeast, bacteria and lord knows what else???
> 
> Scary enough to make one drink megaswill..
> 
> K



We must have some guys who work in QA that can enlighten us on that !

-BD


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## Millet Man (11/4/08)

dr K said:


> So if a well known (hilarious joke) springwater company has problems with sealed "cubes" (or "flagons") that they actaualy distribute and sell to the public (insert public health risk and financial risk to said company somewhere) what hope does the hapless no chill freak have with a container of lovely medium for any wild yeast, bacteria and lord knows what else???
> 
> Scary enough to make one drink megaswill..
> 
> K


Dr K,

Good to see you survived the AIBA tasting day and are still fighting the good fight!  

Cheers, Andrew.


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## slacka (11/4/08)

Since large numbers of people on this forum swear by the no-chill method, I can't help thinking that dimethylsuphide is just an excuse to try and get us to buy a chiller.

I take it that people have tried both methods to see if they can taste a discernible difference between the two?


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## Adamt (11/4/08)

DMS is driven off during the boil... unless you cover it.


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## browndog (11/4/08)

No chill beers have won competitions at the highest level here in OZ so it seems the Judges can't tell :blink: 

cheers

Browndog


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## arogers (14/7/08)

sorry to drag up an old thread guys but thought i would get everyones opinion on my current method, in no way am i saying its perfect but lack of funds dictates equipment at the moment!

basically have been doing AG for a few months now, using an esky adapted into mash tun ($10 for the braid w00t), i get the HBS to crush the grain thus far but want to get my own eventually and crush it myself. so there is plastic vessel number one anyway.

i then drain into one of my trusty brewcraft fermy's for the boil, made possible with a 2400w immersion element. again, 100deg in contact with the pastic fermy. depending on the amount of junk floating around after the boil, sometimes i rack from the "kettle" into a second sanitized fermy. but usually just leave it in the first one. 

as soon as im finished with the boil, the sanitized lid goes on (and the steam is still pretty strong so no risk of infection) with the airlock and left in the garage to cool over night. works a treat, and no pots/kettle to wash up afterwards. i ferment in the same fermy as i boil in.

so what do you guys reckon about the whole poison plastic thing when you perform the actual boil in one??


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## white.grant (14/7/08)

regulator said:


> so what do you guys reckon about the whole poison plastic thing when you perform the actual boil in one??



I've seen plastic buckets with immersion heaters used before, in fact you can (or could) buy them with elements and thermostats installed. As long as it doesn't catch fire it should work out OK.

cheers

Grant


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## kabooby (14/7/08)

Should be OK. I think it may shorten the life of your fermenter with it being at boiling temp for more than an hour. 

See how it goes. 

Kabooby


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## arogers (16/7/08)

kabooby said:


> Should be OK. I think it may shorten the life of your fermenter with it being at boiling temp for more than an hour.
> 
> See how it goes.
> 
> Kabooby




Cheers for the input guys, i havent noticed any degredation so far in the plastic, or off smells in the beer (the fermy has had plenty of prior use to get rid of that "new" smell)

One thing to note for anyone thinking of trying this out = it works fine with your standard 23ltr fermy (with my element with i think is 2400w) heats and boild really well. But i tryed it once with one of those bigger 50L fermys. it takes AGES (read = hours) to boil, and thats with the fermy insulated. It just will not boil if it is uninsulated.

and no worries with it melting the sides of the fermy, i hang it off a dowel laid accross the opening. works really well actually.

Brew on a budget!


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## juzz1981 (13/8/10)

dicko said:


> If sucking back through an air lock is a problem get an airlock and sanitise it as normal then get a small wad of cotton wool and soak it in metho or alcohol and push it into the top of the lock. As long as you are only leaving it in the fridge while it cools to pitching temp then this seems to work OK for me.
> FWIW I rack mine into another cube once it is cool to achieve aeration.
> 
> Cheers



If racking straight into the fermenter to cool overnight, could you just shake the fermenter to splash the wort to give aeration?


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## browndog (14/8/10)

juzz1981 said:


> If racking straight into the fermenter to cool overnight, could you just shake the fermenter to splash the wort to give aeration?




I never did (and still don't) bother with aeration.


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