# Why All Grain?



## Diggles (29/4/12)

Looking to do my first all grain when my pH meter and bilge pump (don't ask!...see other thread) arrive, but been thinking: for those of us that haven't tasted an allgrain beer (apart from off the shelf, which I assume will be different)..........why bother? What's the deal? 

The only justification I have is that it's the next step, must be worth it if everyone else is putting so much effort in to it!

It's almost as if I got to do it to see what all the fuss is about! :lol: 

So, the challenge if you dare to stand and be counted is, answer the question......why bother with all grain?

Diggles


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## doon (29/4/12)

Simply put they taste far better. I have converted my non beer drinking missus to loving dark hoppy ales. Am sure this couldn't of happened with kits of partials


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## fcmcg (29/4/12)

Diggles said:


> Looking to do my first all grain when my pH meter and bilge pump (don't ask!...see other thread) arrive, but been thinking: for those of us that haven't tasted an allgrain beer (apart from off the shelf, which I assume will be different)..........why bother? What's the deal?
> 
> The only justification I have is that it's the next step, must be worth it if everyone else is putting so much effort in to it!
> 
> ...


Well....
It's quite simple....
I can drink exceptional beer that is as good as micro-brewed beer , that you can buy. Caveat is i made it...and i make 40 to 50 litres at a time...
I can make beers that i like...that is as little or as much hop as i want...of varying styles...
For mine...kit beer never tasted as good as all grain , homebrewed beer....
Ferg


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## Phoney (29/4/12)

For much the same reason that you learn to cook from scratch when you could just reheat frozen dinners bought in a box.


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## Bada Bing Brewery (29/4/12)

Diggles said:


> Looking to do my first all grain when my pH meter and bilge pump (don't ask!...see other thread) arrive, but been thinking: for those of us that haven't tasted an allgrain beer (apart from off the shelf, which I assume will be different)..........why bother? What's the deal?
> 
> The only justification I have is that it's the next step, must be worth it if everyone else is putting so much effort in to it!
> 
> ...


Diggles - remember your first car - sure it was great, got you from A to B .... then you jumped into a real car and thought .... shit. Same deal with brewing - K+K is a HG, all grain is a statesman ......
Cheers
BBB


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## SJW (29/4/12)

phoneyhuh said:


> For much the same reason that you learn to cook from scratch when you could just reheat frozen dinners bought in a box.


DOH, thats what I was going to say........so, while a store bought pizza or hamburger is ok, if u can be bothered making your own you have ultimate con trol over what you put in it and how its made. But best of all, if you do it right it tasstes every bit as good as any craft beer.
I had a mate over tonight who is a VB man. I have seen him dump 6 packs of Urquell and Chimay that was given to him as gifts as he loves VB. He loved my keg set up and had a schooy of each one I had on tap. German Pilsner, Czech Pilsner, APA, and an American Brown. To his credit he loved the first 3 but was not keen on the Brown. Best of all his first comment was "this does not taste like homebrew". What better compliment can a brewer get 

steve


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## SJW (29/4/12)

phoneyhuh said:


> For much the same reason that you learn to cook from scratch when you could just reheat frozen dinners bought in a box.


DOH, thats what I was going to say........so, while a store bought pizza or hamburger is ok, if u can be bothered making your own you have ultimate con trol over what you put in it and how its made. But best of all, if you do it right it tasstes every bit as good as any craft beer.
I had a mate over tonight who is a VB man. I have seen him dump 6 packs of Urquell and Chimay that was given to him as gifts as he loves VB. He loved my keg set up and had a schooy of each one I had on tap. German Pilsner, Czech Pilsner, APA, and an American Brown. To his credit he loved the first 3 but was not keen on the Brown. Best of all his first comment was "this does not taste like homebrew". What better compliment can a brewer get 

steve


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## fawnroux (29/4/12)

Diggles said:


> for those of us that haven't tasted an allgrain beer (apart from off the shelf, which I assume will be different)..........why bother? What's the deal?



Why do you assume it will be different? It might be filtered, but..

Compare a K&K beer to a nice, all grain, well made beer from a micro/not so micro brewery. Then realise you can make beer this good yourself. Maybe even better!. Then realise it's cheaper (so to speak) to make it yourself. Then realise it's a fun hobby to have, even if you are banished to outside all day (is this really a bad thing?  ). Then realise that suddenly, chemisty and biology are in in fact, fascinating. You now read all you can on enzymes, amino acids, sugars, yeast, polyphenols,2-3 pentanedione.. Shit, realise thats heavy stuff, you need a beer. Realise that beer tastes pretty fuckin awesome. Who made this? ME?? Sweet. Realise all grain is as good as you remember it. Realise your late to catch up for that local brewers meeting your going to, think "damn, those boys (and girls) make some pretty sweet beers" and grab that gnarly American IPA and Russian Imperial Stout you brewed a few months back and take em along. Realise brewing is pretty damn good craic and are so glad you started.

Why bother? Why not? For me, brewing is a great hobby that results in a product I'm fascinated with and proud of. Usually they're pretty good drinking.

Whats the deal? Honestly, you either get it or you don't. I've had K&K's chuckle at me wondering why I go all the trouble, but honestly, beer is not about about alcohol to me. It used to be, but not these days. It's about beer, and the respecting and understanding the process. I dunno, I'm a chef, so all grain is a natural state of culinary curiousity for for me. I'll happliy go to the same amount of trouble to make cheese, bacon, butcher a lamb etc.

Long story short, I think all grain brewing is the shit. Thats why I bother :beerbang:


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## Lodan (29/4/12)

It's worth noting that an all grain crap beer is no better than a k&k/extract crap beer

That is to say, all grain is only better if you can make it better.


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## Diggles (29/4/12)

Just as I was hoping for, all the encouragement I need. Thanks boys, all I got to do now is nail a few recipies and hey presto I'm there. Just read the John Plmer book, and I like hi quote that goes along the lines of:

"Being able to walk to any bottle shop and say with confidence about any beer in the shop, I can brew that"

Keep the good work going, cheers.

Diggles


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## Wolfy (29/4/12)

Diggles said:


> So, the challenge if you dare to stand and be counted is, answer the question......why bother with all grain?


I recently gave a talk about home-brewing at my sister's Probis group's monthly meeting, and I had to work out a way to explain kits, partials and all-grain to non-brewers.

The analogy I used was baking a cake:
You can go to the shop and buy packet-mix (kits) and that will make a cake, it will be cake and it will be edible, but it is also clearly made from packet mix.
The next 'step' includes adding your own ingredients like your own eggs, and fruit to give the cake mix more character, and usually the cake will turn out noticeably nicer.
However if you want to make the best cake possible, if you want to make any cake you can imagine a recipe for, nothing compares to a cake made from scratch using good fresh ingredients, and that is what AG is all about.


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## chunckious (30/4/12)

Be careful though Diggles, you will absolutely turn into a beer snob. Once you get your processes right and start making great beer it will **** with your taste buds.
Go drink a Crownie or the like in 12 months time, you'll be astounded.


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## freezkat (30/4/12)

Lodan said:


> It's worth noting that an all grain crap beer is no better than a k&k/extract crap beer
> 
> That is to say, all grain is only better if you can make it better.


So if you make a crap all grain you are out 4-6 hours of a day versus 1.5 hours...

It is harder to screw up an extract beer. Much less mess. 

Buy unhopped extract, add your own.

All grain "can" be cheaper than extract brewing.

Any moron like me can extract brew. I've done a couple all grains. They turned out fine but I am certain I did something wrong. Somebody needs to teach me/show me how to do this.


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## Yob (30/4/12)

Mostly because it's fun, an equal amount to that is i enjoy the challenge of building a functional brewery, 

I was making fantastic Kits n bits / partials when i decided to go AG and was spending almost as long on the brew day as doing an ag.

When you start to get grain by the bag it becomes significantly cheaper.

Im still searching for consistamcy... but then again my equipment hasnt stabilized yet as im still tweaking and learning my system.. this, im sure will iron itself out when my system settles down.

Mostly, it's coz it's a whole truck load of fun though.

Yob


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## Diggles (30/4/12)

Chunkious said:


> Be careful though Diggles, you will absolutely turn into a beer snob. Once you get your processes right and start making great beer it will **** with your taste buds.
> Go drink a Crownie or the like in 12 months time, you'll be astounded.




Mate, I'll look forward to the day where I don't try to emulate the shelved beer, and look at them as inferior....might take some time tho


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## QldKev (30/4/12)

I may kits for many years, and thought I made the best beer around. Like most brewers I started kit and kilo sugar to make a cheap offering. Then I progresses to Dex, and malts and hops, then steeped a couple of grains. Then the hobby bug bit, and I no longer worry about the cost of brewing, I want to enjoy it.

My best kit, is about the same as my worst AG. To make AG better than kits is not hard, once you get the hang of AG you brew far superior beer. 

Plus a bloke has to have hobbies to keep him sane. 

QldKev


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## mje1980 (30/4/12)

*"Being able to walk to any bottle shop and say with confidence about any beer in the shop, I can brew that"
*





I've never been able to brew beers like Wells Bombardier, Timothy Taylors etc. I've made some bloody great ales, and i love brewing all grain beers, but saying you can brew any beer is a bit far.


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## chunckious (30/4/12)

As Qldkev said mate it's about getting your processes right, then your laughing.
I had never done any brewing of any sort. I followed NickJD's $30 stovetop method (because of equipment already hagging around the place). It taught me mash temps, boil times, pitching yeast, things I knew zero about. Made mistakes on the first 2 brews, buy the 3rd I was drinking hoppy APA's. Hpw far you take it is up to you. :icon_cheers:


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## Logman (30/4/12)

Diggles said:


> for those of us that haven't tasted an allgrain beer ..........why bother?


That's kind of like having your first wank and then asking 'why bother with women' ?


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## Superoo (30/4/12)

Better tasting beer, and the flexibility to do more. 
Plus the feel of doing it more as a fully natural additive free beer. 

The other big thing in improving brewing i reckon, is going to kegging. 
That really changes home brew to craft beer if you are a patient brewer.


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## ekul (30/4/12)

mje1980 said:


> I've never been able to brew beers like Wells Bombardier, Timothy Taylors etc. I've made some bloody great ales, and i love brewing all grain beers, but saying you can brew any beer is a bit far.



You could though, there's nothing stopping you from doing this as you have access to all the same ingredients. And because the size of the equipment is so small you can control every parameter much easier than a large scale brewery.



In saying that, i don't do this, too much effort. I'm more concerned with having a steady supply of good beer
rather than have every glass be the best beer that i've ever had. Some guys put the effort in, and i;ll tell you what, they make beer thats *better* than anything i've tasted in the bottle shop. In fact the first all grain beer i tasted (not mine!) was the BEST beer i'd ever tasted up until that point. It was a golden ale made by AndrewQLD on my first bundy brewday. First sip i knew that all grain was the only method i was going to brew from that point. I've put down one kit since then, it was to beef up some aussie swill i was making for xmas. What the rellos didn't drink was just emnptied out i think.


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## chunckious (30/4/12)

ekul said:


> You could though, there's nothing stopping you from doing this as you have access to all the same ingredients. And because the size of the equipment is so small you can control every parameter much easier than a large scale brewery.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



+1
Freshness is king. I've only ever seen TTLL in Dan's and while I'm sure it's a great beer fresh, but the time it gets to me it's meh.


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## petesbrew (30/4/12)

mje1980 said:


> *"Being able to walk to any bottle shop and say with confidence about any beer in the shop, I can brew that"
> *
> 
> 
> ...


I think it's a fair call. Or at the least it's a "challenge accepted".
Made a couple of AGs that have been plain rubbish, but they're always worth the effort and enjoyment.


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## bignath (30/4/12)

Diggles said:


> Mate, I'll look forward to the day where I don't try to emulate the shelved beer, and look at them as inferior....might take some time tho



yeah it will take some time.....roughly 5hours  




Logman said:


> That's kind of like having your first wank and then asking 'why bother with women' ?



I was having a shit start to the day until i read that....almost lost my mouthful of coffee across the computer.

Very true aswell.


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## hughman666 (30/4/12)

I started on kits for the same reason as a lot of ppl i guess: cheap beer!

After a few of the Coopers kits I started steeping grains and dry hopping. Then I got sick of bottling, seriously that is the shittest thing to have to do, all the cleaning, fiddly crap etc. so I went out and bought a kegging setup, butchered the beer fridge and was pretty happy at that point until I started wanting to do beers other than ales.

This is I think where AG started to make its case pretty compelling. I remember doing a couple pilsners with extract (by this stage I had moved on from straight out K&k). I did everything by the book eg wyeast urquell, fermenting in the right range, secondary fermentation, conditioned for a few weeks etc.

It still had *that* flavour.

So I hit up my local Asian grocery store and got a cheapy 80L pot for about $50. Got some nylon and made a bag. Got a 4 ring burner from the camping store.

My first BIAB was an ale, missed most temps, spilled a heap of stuff and burnt myself a fair bit.

Bloody beautiful beer though! It was my worst AG but was still better than any of my extract/kit ales.

After a couple more brews I tried out the pilsner. From memory it was about 95% Bo pils and 5% wheat. Fermented at the right temp, secondary and conditioned etc.

It did not have *that* taste!!!

That was it for me, completely sold. Bought an esky, made a hlt out of an old fermenter and a kettle element and never looked back.

Since going AG ive spent more on this hobby than I originally intended to but then again my intentions are now different than they were. Now I'm more concerned about perfecting my regular brews, experimenting with other ingredients (fruit is awesome) and basically having a great time.

I'm brewing small 20l batches (ie 1 keg) so that I can brew more often and I've got my brew day down to 3hrs with my new rig.

So I guess that's why AG is the shit. Not knocking kits or extract but AG removes the limitations.


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## ekul (30/4/12)

For an inexperienced brewer i reckon ag is the bomb, you can make a lot of mistakes and still churn out a good beer. Shit i got an infection the other day and the beer was still great! I don't have the skills as a brewer to make a good beer from a kit, whereas i can make great beer all day long with AG. 

When i went Ag was about the time that my mates stopped buying booze when they knew i was coming over, whereas before that they'd have one and then go back to what they were drinking. If your mates drink it when there's other gear on offer you know you're doing something right.


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## JPAT (30/4/12)

It's all about the beer.


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## Spork (30/4/12)

Why go fishing, when you can just buy fish?
Because it's a hobby, something you enjoy doing, and as an added bonus you get to eat fish much fresher than the ones you buy.
Of course, by the time you pay for petrol to get to your spot and back, buy bait and / or replace a few lures, replace the odd reel that dies, or rod that gets broken it can start to cost. If you use a boat you will pay more for your fresh fish than it would have cost you to buy it every time...

Brewing AG is similar, but with one added bonus - it saves you a HEAP of $$$!
I can make a litre of beer for < $1.00. Not just plain, boring beer, but super hoppy IPA's etc. (Grain and hops bought in bulk)
How much is a carton of megaswill? Maybe $30 for 9 litres? OK - but I don't like megaswill, I like good craft beer. Now we are looking @ say $20 / 6 pack (or a hell of a lot more) Thats $10+ / litre.

In summary, AG is a way to drink your way to wealth!


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## Parks (30/4/12)

petesbrew said:


> I think it's a fair call. Or at the least it's a "challenge accepted".
> Made a couple of AGs that have been plain rubbish, but they're always worth the effort and enjoyment.


I don't think it's a *fair call*, but it should be you *can* make any commercial beer. After all, how do you think they make it?

Making a clone is no different to trying to make KFC at home. You need a fine sense of taste and the experience to determine which processes and ingredients will give you the same result.


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## ekul (30/4/12)

I think it would be easier to clone your favourite brew than to clone KFC, there's 9 secret ingredients (hint... none of the secret ingredients are chicken)



Parks said:


> I don't think it's a *fair call*, but it should be you *can* make any commercial beer. After all, how do you think they make it?
> 
> Making a clone is no different to trying to make KFC at home. You need a fine sense of taste and the experience to determine which processes and ingredients will give you the same result.


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## Parks (30/4/12)

ekul said:


> I think it would be easier to clone your favourite brew than to clone KFC, there's 9 secret ingredients (hint... none of the secret ingredients are chicken)


I was more comparing the more exotic or complex brews which "can't be brewed at home"

I often wondered if there was chicken in KFC...


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## petesbrew (30/4/12)

Parks said:


> I don't think it's a *fair call*, but it should be you *can* make any commercial beer. After all, how do you think they make it?
> 
> Making a clone is no different to trying to make KFC at home. You need a fine sense of taste and the experience to determine which processes and ingredients will give you the same result.


Well, rephrase it to say you can make any style of beer that tastes similar to [insert awesome beer] then.

Cmon, KFC? Who would try and clone that? That's just stupid talk. Everyone know's you can't clone the Colonel.


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## Maple (30/4/12)

Why bother with All-grain?

Well cuz a 3V, system with 2 pumps, superfriggin i-tye burner, mechano set stand, Mastermill, several 22/2400W elements, a Heat exchange unit (under construction), immersion chiller, hoses and heaps of stainless bling............. 

.........would just be overkill for kit and kilo


(oh, and just cuz it's way more rewarding than cracking a can opener from the drawer)


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## bitterman (30/4/12)

Mark ....... And then you buy a beer engine and it does taste like Timothy Taylor's and Well's Bombardier when put through the same kit thats used to serve it in the Uk.
It makes all the difference.


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## Parks (30/4/12)

petesbrew said:


> Cmon, KFC? Who would try and clone that?


Fat people?


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## iralosavic (30/4/12)

I remember tasting the first all grain wort I made and thinking it was like the difference between instant coffee and grinding your own beans fresh; there's just something more natural and full flavored about it.


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## petesbrew (30/4/12)

iralosavic said:


> I remember tasting the first all grain wort I made and thinking it was like the difference between instant coffee and grinding your own beans fresh; there's just something more natural and full flavored about it.


 :icon_offtopic: 
Our office coffee machine is on the blink, so we have to go upstairs to use their machine (or buy it downstairs, or ... shudder ... use instant).
Upstairs I overheard a conversation between two guys comparing Nescafe Blend 43 & Gold. Meanwhile there's a classy coffee machine nearby.

I had to slap myself a few times.


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## Bribie G (30/4/12)

My first All grain brew (A Yorkshire Bitter) was so beautiful I burst into tears (on the sixth pint, but of course by that time I was also sobbing "Why did princess Diana have to die" and "leave Britney Alone you bastards" 

:lol:


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## DWC (30/4/12)

IMO , the reason most people say AG taste better is that the brewer has progressed from kit n kilo of sugar, through dex n then malt to extra hops to extract brewing etc. etc. They've gotten the basics pretty much right ie. cleanliness and sanitation, temp control etc. 
You can start with AG, but I think the " apprenticeship" is better( flame suit on!)
For me, I like good beer. I can make good beer cheaply and it is a great hobby. 
You don't NEED TO AG, it's just a progression.
I like the journey from grain to keg ( and it cost about $1/L for a golden ale)
How far you go is up to you, stay with kits, extract, biab or build a 3v HERMS.
they can all make good or bad beer, it's up to you
Cheers
Dave


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (30/4/12)

Better taste, far more ingredients (offering flexibility and infinite combinations), no kit twang and the fact that I can brew beers for around $1/L that I could not buy in Dan's, only at a specialist beer nerd shop (like archive) at $10/pint.

Commercial crafties at $16-$20/6er could not brew what I do, and make a profit.

And it's rewarding when you get a pint from the keg that is the 'new' bomb.

@DWC - got my first and only infection with AG, despite always having a great sanitisation regime from Day 1 of kit brewing.

Incidentally, I brew with the cheapest, ghetto system - and I don't need to change. I'd love to have a 3V HERMS, but the primary reasons I brew is cheap beer and tasty beer. I get these already, the extra bling would negate reason one, and despite being fun, cost way too much for a bloke whose missus is expecting their 4th kid.

Goomba


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## flano (30/4/12)

I do it so my mates think I am smarter than them.


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## anthonygoldring (30/4/12)

Logman said:


> That's kind of like having your first wank and then asking 'why bother with women' ?




Good one!


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## QldKev (30/4/12)

Logman said:


> That's kind of like having your first wank and then asking 'why bother with women' ?




Then who would cook my dinner


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## mckenry (30/4/12)

Simple Really. I moved to all grain for the chicks.

K&K groupies




All Grain Groupies



Your choice.

note - please dont take offence :huh:


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## The Village Idiot (30/4/12)

phoneyhuh said:


> For much the same reason that you learn to cook from scratch when you could just reheat frozen dinners bought in a box.




Couldnt have said it better.....


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## The Village Idiot (30/4/12)

hughman666 said:


> I started on kits for the same reason as a lot of ppl i guess: cheap beer!
> 
> After a few of the Coopers kits I started steeping grains and dry hopping. Then I got sick of bottling, seriously that is the shittest thing to have to do, all the cleaning, fiddly crap etc. so I went out and bought a kegging setup, butchered the beer fridge and was pretty happy at that point until I started wanting to do beers other than ales.
> 
> ...



I reckon that sums up quite a few of us..... especially the spent to much bit....lol


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## mikec (30/4/12)

I've only just started with AG but for me it was the freedom to make almost any beer. With K&K you are limited to the types available on the HBS shelf (plus some minor additions).
Now I can go "I like this or that" and look up a recipe to make it. Then, if it so pleases me, I can tweak it a bit to suit my taste.
ALSO, you can make any size batch, not just 23 litres or whatever is written on the can.


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## Diggles (30/4/12)

Superoo said:


> Better tasting beer, and the flexibility to do more.
> Plus the feel of doing it more as a fully natural additive free beer.
> 
> The other big thing in improving brewing i reckon, is going to kegging.
> That really changes home brew to craft beer if you are a patient brewer.




All ready got the keg system and the fermenting fridge with temperature control, so looking at the next step. BIAB as a test the water first without the expense, then jocks off and dive bomb in if all goes to plan! Thanks for the encouragement.

Diggles


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## warra48 (30/4/12)

I'm retired, and self funded, so I need to look after my pennies. Most of the time, I don't have a lot of interest in throwing my dollars at commercial breweries.

Brewing fills about one day a month for me, and I get to drink the results. A brew day is a day spent in the brewery doing something I love doing, and out from under Mrs warra's feet to give her some space.

Every sip gives me a warm glow"How economical it is to produce quality beer?"
Every sip gives me a warm glow "How good is it to brew to the style I want to drink?"
Every sip gives me a warm glow "I designed the recipe myself".
Every sip gives me a warm glow "I brewed that beer myself!".
Every sip gives me a warm glow "I love this beer!"

Doesn't get better than that, and a kit will never give me that warm glow.


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## brewtas (30/4/12)

warra48 said:


> Every sip gives me a warm glow "I designed the recipe myself".
> Every sip gives me a warm glow "I brewed that beer myself!".



Lots of the reasons people have mentioned are true for me too but I think these are the ones that really drive me. It's such a satisfying thing to do. I love the process of creating a beer from scratch: being inspired, working out a recipe, fussing and changing things over and over again, brewing it and then tasting the result. It's creative and fun and at the end you get beer. Not a bad hobby at all.


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## ekul (30/4/12)

QldKev said:


> Then who would cook my dinner



Ever heard of this book? Natural Harvest


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## QldKev (30/4/12)

ekul said:


> Ever heard of this book? Natural Harvest




:icon_vomit:


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## Diggles (30/4/12)

ekul said:


> Ever heard of this book? Natural Harvest



No, but it worries me how you found it in the first place??!!


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## matho (30/4/12)

why All grain?

because its fun 

cheers


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## Bribie G (30/4/12)

mckenry said:


> Simple Really. I moved to all grain for the chicks.
> 
> K&K groupies
> View attachment 54211
> ...



So you've never been with a fat woman.

Chinese proverb: thin women for looking at, fat women for lying on 

Yup I know

B)


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## glenwal (30/4/12)

ekul said:


> Ever heard of this book? Natural Harvest




Whilst brewing all grain does mean you can add what you like to your beer - just remember to tell people before you bring it to the next case swap.


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## Diggles (30/4/12)

mckenry said:


> Simple Really. I moved to all grain for the chicks.
> 
> K&K groupies
> View attachment 54211
> ...



No offence, but I'm not sure if I'd have enough flour to go round the big girls!!


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## kario (30/4/12)

Diggles said:


> No offence, but I'm not sure if I'd have enough flour to go round the big girls!!



But flour is cheaper than cocaine.


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## felten (1/5/12)

petesbrew said:


> Cmon, KFC? Who would try and clone that? That's just stupid talk. Everyone know's you can't clone the Colonel.


http://meemoskitchen.blogspot.com.au/2007/...nal-recipe.html

It works pretty well ;P


ed: except I wouldn't advise to deep fry it.


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## freezkat (1/5/12)

Superoo said:


> Better tasting beer, and the flexibility to do more.
> Plus the feel of doing it more as a fully natural additive free beer.
> 
> The other big thing in improving brewing i reckon, is going to kegging.
> That really changes home brew to craft beer if you are a patient brewer.



I love kegging. It almost makes bottling a six pack of leftovers, fun. I don't see the patient quality with kegging...I like tap beer..I don't like bottling. 

Beer on tap seems to legitimize your beer. No special headless tilt to avoid sediment in the bottle ending up in the glass. 

The kegerator is like the perfect wife. She's just waiting at your beckon call with something wet and satisfying...24/7...even on Sunday...even when her mother is visiting and you can have it any style you wish. Once you pay for it...it gets cheaper to live with.

And you can keg extract brew too...there is no law against it.


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## Nick JD (1/5/12)

freezkat said:


> I love kegging. It almost makes bottling a six pack of leftovers, fun. I don't see the patient quality with kegging...I like tap beer..I don't like bottling.
> 
> Beer on tap seems to legitimize your beer. No special headless tilt to avoid sediment in the bottle ending up in the glass.
> 
> ...



A mate of mine bottles K&K - doesn't want to do AG "because it takes too much time". Loves to drink AG beer though!

I reckon if we both kept a timesheet, me kegging AG is probably as time-consuming as him bottling K&K.


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## ekul (1/5/12)

The easiest way to keep the amount of time down is to do bigger batches! The minimum type of brew that i would would be an extract (only if i couldn't get grain ever again for some reason). Which with a hops boil is a minimum of and hour and a half 'work'.

A triple abtch will take 5 hours from start to finsh, plus 20mins when i keg and refill the fermenter. So 6 hours all up. Thats 2 hours a brew, most of which is spent looking at other recipes to brew or drinking beer.


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## mattyra (1/5/12)

Never tried an All-Grain beer before but have been looking at going it to make my better beer.

I think I make decent beer with the kits, although I have great temperature control and since I started kegging I reckon it tastes a lot better.

Would love to try an All-Grain brew, but don't really know anyone that uses does it so I will have to wait and see. I do have some mates that use the kits as well, but they are normally a can of goop and a kilo of table sugar. Explains why I have to take my beer to their house when we are having a session.


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## hughman666 (1/5/12)

kegging with a kegerator or a fully-fledged bar with flooded font etc...either way beats the living shit out of bottling.

your beer tastes better quicker and there's less cleaning.

there's nothing not to like about that...


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## flano (1/5/12)

I work from home on Fridays .
House to myself.

I crack and weigh out my grain for my little BIAB's at around 7.30am.
Heat water ect .
Drop grain into bag and pot cover with quilt ...about 30 mins there.

drop kids off to school ...maybe swing by the shops.


come home 1hr later squeeze bag , sparge if want to. 
get on it the Boil . about 15 mins

do actual work while boiling for 1 hr. Have phone timer set along the way. for hop additions.

Cover with cling wrap and put into laundry tub with cold water . 5 mins
go back to work.
Evey half hour I quickly change the water in tub. 5mins.
Once it is getting sort of room temp I add about 3 old plastic coke bottles full of frozen water
Go back to work - 5 mins.

By lunch time it has cooled right down.
Give fermenter a quick clean ( I always soak mine in between brews so they are basiclly ready use )
Put wort in fermenter add water and yeast walk away. 15 mins.

job done. approx 1.5 hrs.

to keg takes me about 30 mins give or take.

I reckon to be on the safe side 3 hours is more than enough time to go from "mill to mouth" in actual labour time.'

how long does it take to clean , cap and fill 30 long necks? or however many you need per batch.

plus I am shit at brewing K&K they have all tasted the same.


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## Truman42 (1/5/12)

Other than the usual reasons of better tasting beer, the fun of doing an all grain brew etc, I love buying and building all manner of shiny things and electronic gadgets that you can use with AG brewing. 
Then theres the thrill of hiding the purchases from the missus by making up eleborate stories so she doesnt say I spend too much on my brewing. "How much was this new 40 litre urn babe? It was only $50, the guy was practically throwing it away."  

The excitement of scouring the neighbourhood at hard rubbish collection time to see what you can find thats brewery related.

Impressing your mates because you drink dark beers, know what an IPA is and use words like malt and hops, good head retention and mouth feel.

AG is like the beer equivelent of having a hot woman with an awesome rack, who serves you beer in skimpy gear and goes down on you while you watch the footy...


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## .DJ. (1/5/12)

Truman said:


> AG is like the beer equivelent of having a hot woman with an awesome rack, who serves you beer in skimpy gear and goes down on you while you watch the footy...



Beer might be alot of things... but it aint _THAT_ good...


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## bignath (1/5/12)

Truman said:


> AG is like the beer equivelent of having a hot woman with an awesome rack, who serves you beer in skimpy gear and goes down on you while you watch the footy...



Right, that's it....








next brewday at your house.


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## hyjak71 (1/5/12)

I am a new AG brewer but I still bottle and will have to for the foreseeable future, why? I simply don't have anywhere to put a beer fridge in the house as it is since going from K&K to partials and now AG I have been relegated to the garage for brewing duties.

Suffice to say that going out to the garage every time I want a re-fill is not exactly appealing especially in the middle of a Tassie winter. 

Why AG? Simple I wanted to get the same warm fuzzy feelings Warra48 posted on the last page plus it's fun.


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## hsb (1/5/12)

Kit brewers can always just make Fresh Wort Kits from suppliers. You get to make 'All Grain' beer without needing any hot side equipment and you can still tweak hop additions/yeast types etc. to be hands on as with doing 'toucans' with steeped grains etc.
No 'twang' but no hassle either. 

I don't find myself doing AG than for any other reason than the love of beer itself (rather than impressing friends, saving money, doing DIY etc. etc.)

To be honest I could have funded a year's B&B at Westvleteren with the monks helping make/drink it on what I've spent on AG to date  

Spending most of your savings on travelling the world getting plastered/seeing breweries in action could be an equally valid way to reach the same outcome.


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## Truman42 (1/5/12)

Big Nath said:


> Right, that's it....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LOL.....


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## sponge (1/5/12)

Why all grain?




...becase you're worth it!



*flicks hair and walks off*



Sponge


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## mikec (1/5/12)

It won't happen overnight, but it will happen... in about 4-5 hours.


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## Phoney (1/5/12)

hughman666 said:


> kegging with a kegerator or a fully-fledged bar with flooded font etc...either way beats the living shit out of bottling.
> 
> your beer tastes better quicker and there's less cleaning.
> 
> there's nothing not to like about that...



It's a hell of a lot more expensive, a lot of folks dont have a spare ~$1000 lying around to setup a keg system.


That was the only factor stopping me getting into kegging for so long.


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## sponge (1/5/12)

Slightly OT...

Keep an eye open on here and gumtree/ebay for keg sales.

I managed to pick up 3 kegs, large co2 bottle single tap and some disconnects for around $200 off ebay.

Second hand fridge for $50 off gumtree and a couple of new perlick taps for around $100 delivered from america.

Easy to get into kegging for under $500 with some decent online deals, and saves far too much time and hassle having to bottle.


Sponge


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## mikec (1/5/12)

phoneyhuh said:


> It's a hell of a lot more expensive, a lot of folks dont have a spare ~$1000 lying around to setup a keg system.
> 
> 
> That was the only factor stopping me getting into kegging for so long.



It's also a lot of mucking around, and the first few legs you drink a lot of flat beer and froth. You still have to clean the kegs, lines, taps and so on.

But totally worth it.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (1/5/12)

I costed my 3 keg system and it came to around $600 - all new (well except obviously the cornies), fridge was my existing one, and I paid for proper JG fittings and made sure I had the best regulator recommended.

The big saving was the curly hosed plastic taps - great pour and a lot cheaper than perlicks or those Mario-beertaps.

Goomba


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## donburke (1/5/12)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> I costed my 3 keg system and it came to around $600 - all new (well except obviously the cornies), fridge was my existing one, and I paid for proper JG fittings and made sure I had the best regulator recommended.
> 
> The big saving was the curly hosed plastic taps - great pour and a lot cheaper than perlicks or those Mario-beertaps.
> 
> Goomba



what is a mario beertap ?


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## Liam_snorkel (1/5/12)

I'm guessing Celli..?


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## donburke (1/5/12)

Liam_snorkel said:


> I'm guessing Celli..?




ron jeremy taps ?


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (1/5/12)

Celli.

Gold class taps at a gold class price.

Mario (or Marzi) was a term all my Aussie born Italian friends used to describe anything overly Italian (especially if it bordered on quasi-archetypical).

Gli australian erano chiamati "skip".

Just to balance things out.  

Goomba


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## hughman666 (1/5/12)

$1000 is pretty off the mark.

Kegerators can be found online for around $500, add a couple of kegs and youre hitting around $600.

Better still if you butcher an old fridge with a couple of taps and kegs you can be looking at under $300.

Sorry but the "hell of a lot more expensive" tag isn't valid once you factor in the above prices, not having to buy bottling gear, extra sanitizer, priming sugar, patience etc.

My 0.02c....



phoneyhuh said:


> It's a hell of a lot more expensive, a lot of folks dont have a spare ~$1000 lying around to setup a keg system.
> 
> 
> That was the only factor stopping me getting into kegging for so long.


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## bignath (1/5/12)

donburke said:


> ron jeremy taps ?



:lol: :lol: 

So many one liners 'come' to mind......lots of things like good head retention.....creamer attachments....pours too much head....using the wrong pressure.....



I'll stop now.


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## donburke (1/5/12)

Big Nath said:


> :lol: :lol:
> 
> So many one liners 'come' to mind......lots of things like good head retention.....creamer attachments....pours too much head....using the wrong pressure.....
> 
> ...



why stop, the thread was derailed a while back

i was thinking poor head because of too much lube ...

... but ended up blowing the keg anyway


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## freezkat (2/5/12)

donburke said:


> ron jeremy taps ?



they're 9.5 inches long


Mine cost around $300 for the fridge, paint, line, gas, 3 taps and kegs. I have about $100 in extra parts had I known what I was doing at first.


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