# RecipeDB - Medowie sauer Weisse



## Weizguy (10/2/08)

Medowie sauer Weisse  Ale - Berliner Weisse  All Grain                      Brewer's Notes Multi-step mash with an acid/hydration rest at 35C for 240 min, then 50C for 30 min, then 65C for 60 min. Mash out at 77C. Pils and wheat malt were JW. 2 tsp gypsum added to boil water. Chilled overnight. Pitched with 500 ml active lactobacillus culture for 24 hours before adding the German ale yeast. Post-ferment, chill to 10C overnight and rack before bottling to settle out the lacto bacteria. At bottling, add lactic acid to taste (wasn't sour enough for me) and 160g castor sugar (dissolved in 300 ml boiled water). OG - 1.031 FG 1.006 Bitterness - 5.5 IBU and alc %= 3.0. Should be reminiscent of champagne.   Malt & Fermentables    % KG Fermentable      2 kg JWM Export Pilsner    1 kg JWM Wheat Malt    0.34 kg Weyermann Acidulated       Hops    Time Grams Variety Form AA      28 g Tettnang (Pellet, 4.5AA%, 20mins)       Yeast     1000 ml Wyeast Labs 1007 - German Ale    500 ml Wyeast Labs 4335 - Lactobacillus Delbrueckii       Misc     2 tsp Gypsum         25L Batch Size    Brew Details   Original Gravity 1.029 (calc)   Final Gravity 1.009 (calc)   Bitterness 9 IBU   Efficiency 75%   Alcohol 2.59%   Colour 5 EBC   Batch Size 25L     Fermentation   Primary 7 days   Secondary 7 days   Conditioning 5 days


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## joshuahardie (26/9/08)

Les, 

Have a fermentation question.
Reading through the recipe can you confirm that you 

Day 1, add the Lacto culture
Day 2, add the german yeast
Day 9, chill, rack to another fermenter to remove german yeast only leaving the lacto
Day 10+ leave in secondary until desired sourness is reached, then chill again to drop the lacto and then bottle.

I want to make one of these for Christmas, and want to get it right.

Suggestions
Cheers
Josh


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## Weizguy (26/9/08)

G'day Josh,

I have been interested in putting another one of these together. It may need to be a double batch, as I'm likely to have a significant number of requests for samplers.

I just reviewed my notes and the recipe before I posted this reply.

I would recommend more than 24 hours on the lacto before adding the ale yeast, as the lacto bugs don't respond well to alcohol. So, either leave on the lacto a bit longer or start with a bigger lacto culture.
Primary ferment (with the ale yeast) should only take about 4 days or so.
The first racking is done after primary at ferment temp of 18-20 C, and this is to remove excess yeast and dead bacteria.
Then you chill the beer and leave for 2 days at 10C. This should put the lacto to sleep and drop to the bottom. Then you can rack the brew off the bacteria.

The amount of gypsum added is 10 grams, and the hops go into the kettle before the wort is recirculated and drained (FWH).

I hope this helps. I'll try to post mre details here later.

Cheers, and thanks for the interest. This is a really easy-drinking session beer. The "sour" in the name turns a lot of people off, but it's sourness is a dry, tart flavour reminiscent of plain yoghurt, and the sourness is balanced by the malt, and the mild bitterness. The hops are there as much for preservative as for bitterness in my opinion.


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## joshuahardie (26/9/08)

Thanks for the reply Les, 

I am just comparing your comments / experiences to the notes on the brewing network podcasts.

Jamil appears to be pitching the yeast / lacto at the same time and then leaving for about 2 months to sour up. there is no mention of racking the beer off the yeast after a week either.
This souring time is far longer compared to yours, which is around the 8-10 day mark.

Are you getting alot of souring in the first few days from a really active lacto culture, before any alchol has been produced, thus negating a huge period of time in secondary?

I have got my head around almost all of it. i think it might be worth my while to make a couple of batches and compare secondary ferment times.

I have not had a Berliner before, but as a big fan of lambics, and guezue's i figured this will be right down my sour beer alley.

Look forward to your thoughts on the contrast between the two methods. Me thinks I am going to have to just dive in the deep end, then send you a bottle.
Josh


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## Weizguy (26/9/08)

thanks for your interest, Josh.

I've only made a few of these, one of which was a prize winner

As with certain animals, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Jamil's method works, adding lactic acid works, the method I described works. However I did need to supplement the sourness.
I haven't tried a large pitch of lactobacillus, or left it for a while in secondary, as I was following the methodology in BYO magazine.

As you suggest, the deep end is where the action is happening, so jump in and take a sharp knife with you (to skin them cats - Note: I luv cats, really). :lol: 

I have a package of the Wyeast Berliner Weisse blend, and plan to test the side-by side results of that yeast vs a sour mash (natural souring, either way). Maybe that's where I'll do the double batch. Oh, then I'll need a duplicate beer fridge and controller. Hmmm, ...or the keg freezer I've been promising myself.  

Thanks for the inspiration, Josh. I'll have to send you some suitable (sour) rewards, upon fruition.


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## joshuahardie (29/9/08)

I have not heard of the Wyeast Berliner Weisse blend. Might be something i will have to track down in the future. I was going to use a combination of the 1056 ale yeast and the 5335 lactobacillus.

I think I will go along the lines of your pitch the lacto before the yeast, I will do some trials over the length of secondary and get back to you. ill do trials from about 2 weeks to a couple of months, to see how it develops.

Watch this space.


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