# Bread Yeast As Yeast Nutrient



## RetsamHsam (3/3/09)

I have heard afew people boil up some cheap bread yeast as nutrient.. I have a high gravity beer planned and wanted to add some nutrient but the ones I have found don't seem all that cheap..

What is everyone else using??


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## raven19 (3/3/09)

RetsamHsam said:


> I have heard afew people boil up some cheap bread yeast as nutrient.. I have a high gravity beer planned and wanted to add some nutrient but the ones I have found don't seem all that cheap..
> 
> What is everyone else using??



You can boil up some old yeast from tins of goo, or make a starter as I do generally.


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## PostModern (3/3/09)

Bread yeast will do, or old kit yeast if you have any around. What I use for high grav stuff is White Labs yeast nutrients.


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## chappo1970 (3/3/09)

raven19 said:


> You can boil up some old yeast from tins of goo, or make a starter as I do generally.



Yep agree with Raven (yet again!) that's what I do! Thankfully I have a pretty good supply of old kit yeast which deserves to be fed to my much nicer yeasties beasties! <Cue pipe organ: horror movie style> BAAWHA HA HA HA HA HA!!! :wacko:


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## RetsamHsam (3/3/09)

Thanks for the replies guys.. Don't know what happened to all of my old kit yeasts that might still be laying around somewhere.

Is it just added for the entire boil, or towards the end? Or doesn't it matter as long as it is boiled?


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## raven19 (3/3/09)

RetsamHsam said:


> Thanks for the replies guys.. Don't know what happened to all of my old kit yeasts that might still be laying around somewhere.
> 
> Is it just added for the entire boil, or towards the end? Or doesn't it matter as long as it is boiled?



Just has to be enough to kill the yeast, so 5 - 10 min boil should be fine.


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## RetsamHsam (3/3/09)

Thanks Mate, I'll give it a go


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## apd (3/3/09)

RetsamHsam said:


> I have heard afew people boil up some cheap bread yeast as nutrient.. I have a high gravity beer planned and wanted to add some nutrient but the ones I have found don't seem all that cheap..
> 
> What is everyone else using??



The yeast I use for bread baking comes in a small cardboard tube package, maroon coloured. Holds a hundred or so grams (I think) and from memory it was around $7 at Coles. Haven't compared prices lately but it seemed the best value compared to buying individual sachets of yeast.


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## chappo1970 (3/3/09)

RetsamHsam said:


> Thanks for the replies guys.. Don't know what happened to all of my old kit yeasts that might still be laying around somewhere.
> 
> Is it just added for the entire boil, or towards the end? Or doesn't it matter as long as it is boiled?




That's one of those can-o-worms open for debate questions GreenEggsAndHam (RetsamHsam)? I have in the past just emptied a packet of kit yeast into a sterilised flask add 250ml of boiling water, cork up flask, leave for 1 hour or so to get back to room temp, check for signs of life (fermentation), if dead pitch into fermenter.


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## Bribie G (3/3/09)

Our cousins in the water purifying and plant-essence distilling fellowship use boiled up yeast and even vegemite, but of course the latter wouldn't transfer too well to a light delicate lager. So it obviously hits the spot.

You can buy _yeast hulls_ from most outlets that support that other craft, they are processed dead yeast presumably from commercial breweries who sell it as a by product AFAIK. Thinking of putting some in my braggott as I'm not sure if there will be enough nutrients there, with 3k of honey to be chewed through.


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## brettprevans (3/3/09)

apd said:


> The yeast I use for bread baking comes in a small cardboard tube package, maroon coloured. Holds a hundred or so grams (I think) and from memory it was around $7 at Coles. Haven't compared prices lately but it seemed the best value compared to buying individual sachets of yeast.


i think its Lohan brand, sounds like the bread yeast i buy for my bread.

dont buy satches. thats sily and pricey. hell you' dbbe better off biuing yeast nutrient than single satchets of yeast.

yes my speeling sux.


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## chappo1970 (3/3/09)

citymorgue2 said:


> i think its Lohan brand, sounds like the bread yeast i buy for my bread.
> 
> dont buy satches. thats sily and pricey. hell you' dbbe better off biuing yeast nutrient than single satchets of yeast.
> 
> yes my speeling sux.




Been sampling the brewing stash again I see CM2? :lol: 

Your even keyboard slurring! :lol:


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## pint of lager (3/3/09)

Many people use old yeast as nutrient, but apparently it is better to use the correct nutrient rather than dead yeasts. An analogy was, would humans survive and thrive just eating dead humans?

Good ag wort is supposed to be perfect food for your yeasts. Grape based wines are also supposed to be perfect for your yeasts. Every other beverage needs nutrient.

Australian soils are ancient and deficient in some areas including zinc and this is an important elemnt to add in for yeast health. If you do a search on zinc, some interesting discussions pop up. Excess zinc is toxic, so don't add too much.

For starters, I always use some WYeast nutrient.


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## chappo1970 (3/3/09)

pint of lager said:


> ...would humans survive and thrive just eating dead humans?



Errr... wasn't there some footballer's that their aeroplane crashed into a mountain and well... munched on a few good old mates to survive? <_< 



pint of lager said:


> Good ag wort is supposed to be perfect food for your yeasts. Grape based wines are also supposed to be perfect for your yeasts. Every other beverage needs nutrient.
> 
> Australian soils are ancient and deficient in some areas including zinc and this is an important elemnt to add in for yeast health. If you do a search on zinc, some interesting discussions pop up. Excess zinc is toxic, so don't add too much.
> 
> For starters, I always use some WYeast nutrient.



Valid point though. Learn something new every day! I will give the WYeast nutrient a go next time see if that kicks things along better.


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## glennheinzel (3/3/09)

There is another thread (link below) which suggests that yeast nutrient is of mostly of use if you are using Australian malts. 

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...l=zinc&st=0


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## RetsamHsam (3/3/09)

Just had another thought, I was in a pet shop afew months back and came across a .5kg bag of 'brewers yeast' I think it is fed to greyhounds to make them run faster :wacko: This would probably be similar to the yeast hulls mentioned above..

I also have some old Zinc tablets laying around that the Mrs' got for me (I'm potent enough as it is so I won't be taking anymore). Might chuck half a tablet in the boil as well, or would that be too much?


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## Tony M (3/3/09)

There is a place in Perth and Fremantle called Kakulis Bros and they have a great tub of about 1/2 M3 labeled brewers yeast and sells for 3-4 bux a kilo from memory. I presume it is that dead stuff, there for the healthy people to have for breakfast, (or feed their dogs).


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## pint of lager (3/3/09)

A whole zinc tablet is way too much.

Think about the scale of things. The tablet is for an 80kg person and you have say 20 gms of yeast. Just scrape a small bit off the side of the tablet.

You may want to start taking the zinc tablets. They are supposed to be a preventative for prostate cancer. Do some googling.


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## itguy1953 (3/3/09)

What about boiling up some trub for previous brews as a nutrient? 


Anyone tried this?

Barry


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## RetsamHsam (3/3/09)

Barry R said:


> What about boiling up some trub for previous brews as a nutrient?
> 
> 
> Anyone tried this?
> ...



Can't see why this wouldn't work.


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## flattop (3/3/09)

That zinc will produce a decent stiff brew.....


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## The King of Spain (3/3/09)

pint of lager said:


> A whole zinc tablet is way too much.
> 
> Think about the scale of things. The tablet is for an 80kg person and you have say 20 gms of yeast. Just scrape a small bit off the side of the tablet.
> 
> You may want to start taking the zinc tablets. They are supposed to be a preventative for prostate cancer. Do some googling.




+1 Aussie soils are generaly deficient in zinc, so yeast nutrient will help using BB malt etc, but not in the scale you are suggesting. I add zinc to my vegie garden for above mentioned reasons. Do a google.


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## SJW (3/3/09)

Why not just buy yeast nutrient, it cost next to nothing?


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## Whistlingjack (3/3/09)

Here's a tip...

Yeast nutrients contain the trace elements necessary for their health, the main ones being magnesium and zinc. Water supplies will usually contain adequate amounts of magnesium, but zinc is a known deficiency in most.

Due to the constraints of the Reinheitsgebot, yeast nutrients are forbidden. How do the breweries overcome this?

Mash stirrers and knives contain a sacrificial zinc coating, releasing small amounts into the wort. But considering the average home brewers' resources, this method would be impractical... B) 

What difference would it make, anyway?

The best nutrient for yeast, as mentioned, is the wort itself. Zinc deficiences may be a issue when you are cropping the yeast over several generations, in a large brewery, but generally there should be no problem.

WJ


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## smudge (3/3/09)

Graeme Sanders in one of his rants (about Chris White of Whitelabs) puts an argument that bread yeast is an ideal nutrient
in this February #1 show. He made a good case.

Cheers,
smudge


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## muckanic (4/3/09)

As well as a carbohydrate source, yeast theoretically need some ammonium, various B vitamins, sulphur, phosphorous, magnesium, copper, iron, and zinc (see Fix's brewing science book). It is interesting to compare these theoretical requirements with actual practice. There is widespread consensus from those who do all-sugar brews that a combination of di-ammonium phosphate (DAP), Vit B complex and MgSO4 will result in a perfectly healthy ferment. From this, it might be concluded that all the other minerals are provided by the water supply and/or the boiler construction, with an obvious test being to use distilled water and a plastic boiler. On the other hand, it is unlikely that enough sulphur comes from the water, leading to the possibility that the pitching yeast is also a source of some nutrients. (I must admit at this point to being a bit hazy as to what minerals might be in a Vit B complex - I know cobalt is one). One difficulty with this minimum nutrient concept is that yeast are literally chemical factories, and so we need to distinguish between what they absolutely can't do without and what they can synthesise under duress, possibly with delays to the ferment and a change in the byproducts profile.

One takeaway message is that vodka brewers generally don't feel the need to use Zn supplements, and in theory at least that ought to go double for beer brewers.



pint of lager said:


> Many people use old yeast as nutrient, but apparently it is better to use the correct nutrient rather than dead yeasts. An analogy was, would humans survive and thrive just eating dead humans?



A counter-analogy is whether you think people would do better eating real organic food or some minimalist inorganic combo that was cooked up in a lab, based upon imperfect ideas about nutrition. Yeast contains everything that yeast needs, and one plus could be that the minerals are appropriately chelated. One reservation could be that both the amino acid and the saturated lipid content could lead to more fusels, which I guess could be regarded as either a good or a bad thing depending what style you're shooting for. But the same considerations apply to live yeast pitching rates. 

In theory, 4g/L of dead yeast provides about the same nitrogen as 1g/L of DAP. In practice, I must admit that the DAP results in a faster ferment, although the yeast-based nutrient is perfectly adequate for an all-sugar SG 60 brew. Increase rates appropriately for higher gravities, but decrease rates appropriately for beer worts as these will always attenuate at least 50% without nutrient assistance.



Barry R said:


> What about boiling up some trub for previous brews as a nutrient?



Do you mean break or ferment dregs? The advantage of the former is that you get all those unsaturated lipids which can substitute for wort oxygenation, plus a heap of precipitated protein (ie, an amino acid source). However, I am unsure whether trub in isolation is particularly rich in Vit B. The ferment dregs would contain the lot.


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