# Grain Crush And Rubbish Efficiency?



## Dave70 (1/11/11)

To make a boring story short, I had no choice but to purchase my APA grain from a different supplier. I take a reading last night that reveals an OG of 1.045 - should have been around the 1.053 mark according to Brewmate. 
Now, I've changed nothing in my procedure and have the efficiency setting on a rather modest 70% (1.045 puts it around 61%). I nearly always finish a point or two up and the only variable has been the grain.
Not looking to blame the supplier, but in future I may need to adjust the recipe accordingly if I buy from them. Ever had this happen to you?

Any suggestions on getting the gravity back where it needs to be? 
I'll get the ball rolling with the crudest method of dumping 350g of white sugar in the fermener. Surely there must be a better way.
Or if we're using sugar - maby a amber candy?
Mmm....Dry hopped APA with a Belgian twist..

cheers


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## bum (1/11/11)

Did you happen to have a chew on any of it? Any chance it was mistreated/picked up moisture?

As for bulking your OG back up. I'd simply go some LDME (or dex if you're worried you might get less attenuation than your usual from this batch).


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## ekul (1/11/11)

Would making up the gravity with dme be that bad? I got horrible efficiency the other day (aka forgetting to put some grain in). Was thinkingof topping up with dme


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## SpillsMostOfIt (1/11/11)

ekul said:


> Would making up the gravity with dme be that bad?



This is a philosophical question. If you're focused on getting gravity numbers right, using DME is perfectly acceptable. If you're focused on All Grain, it clearly isn't.

If you're looking to get the numbers pedantically right, you probably should add it before any hops so the bitterness thing happens correctly. If you're using Beer Smith, it gives you the ability to play What If with adding it at (two or three) different points in the boil so you can decide for yourself.

I have no sense of religion, so it depends on the beer I am making, the to-hand availability of DME and how pedantic/lazy I am feeling.


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## Dave70 (1/11/11)

bum said:


> Did you happen to have a chew on any of it? Any chance it was mistreated/picked up moisture?
> 
> As for bulking your OG back up. I'd simply go some LDME (or dex if you're worried you might get less attenuation than your usual from this batch).



It's entirely possible the grain was less than optimal as it was 'pre packaged' , so who knows. My normal guy has a high turnover and always grinds it fresh from bulk. We tend to take a pinch to chew on whilst it's being crushed, nice and crunchy.
I'll probably go dex with a rest in an effort to spare myself any diacetyl related stress many S05 users seem to be suffering at the moment.


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## RdeVjun (1/11/11)

Recently I had some Perle remnants, the sack was opened in about February and it is now quite dull, so not crunchy as the fresh stuff is usually and I presume that's 'slack' malt. But I milled and mashed the stuff, then it yielded exactly the same numbers I usually get. So, YMMV I guess.


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## stux (1/11/11)

RdeVjun said:


> Recently I had some Perle remnants, the sack was opened in about February and it is now quite dull, so not crunchy as the fresh stuff is usually and I presume that's 'slack' malt. But I milled and mashed the stuff, then it yielded exactly the same numbers I usually get. So, YMMV I guess.



Do you measure out your grain by weight or volume?


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## RdeVjun (1/11/11)

Stux said:


> Do you measure out your grain by weight or volume?


By mass. I know estimations of grain density have been around for yonks and usually to do with storage, but I've never heard of anyone using grain volume in a grain bill.


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## Nick JD (1/11/11)

Grain crush affects efficiency. Because I grind mine into flour I get about 5-10% less when I use grain milled to avoid a stuck sparge.

Some of the starches just don't come out of the grains. Way around it is a much longer mash, rests before sacc rest, or boil the grain in a decoction. Heavy sparging of coarse-crushed grain can release unconverted starches.

I read that many commercial breweries mill their grain to a fine flour because they don't have to worry about stuck sparging and they need all the efficiency they can get. $$


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## TasChris (1/11/11)

Grain crush has a huge affect on efficiency.
I ran a few experiments with the barley crusher mill that I have with the similar grain bills and changing the method of driving the mill and thus the speed of crushing.

Hand crank I get 88% efficiency
Using drill with very poor speed control and thus mill to fast 72% efficiency ( drill now dead)
Using new drill with good speed control and thus slower crush speed 85% efficiency

I have repeated each one at least 5 times.
A fair difference in efficiency with crush speed being the only variable.
For consistency it would be ideal to get from one supplier or to crush the grain yourself. The actual efficiency is not super important as long as consistent so you can adjust recipes accordingly.
I would probably not bother to adjust but if I did I would add DME.

Cheers
Chris


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## waggastew (3/5/15)

Old post but I would thought I would post my experience.

Have been running my AG 3V gravity system for about 8 brews now. Mash efficiency has been averaging fairly low ~70%. Mainly put it down to losses in mash tun and kettle as both are fairly larger (60L/70L) and I tend to brew 21L batches.

Have noticed however that there was a fair few uncrushed grains getting through my mill. I think there were two problems, mill setting too wide and also some grain getting over back of rollers. I tightened the mill and ran the grain through the hopper a little slower. Crush looked much better.

Todays brew with the new crush and my efficiency jumped to 82%. 

Well worth spending time getting crush right!


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