# Keg Set Up, What's The Least I Need To Have?



## Andrew Coleman (18/3/10)

Hada search around for kegging but i just cant seem to find anything due to the poor search engine but, i would really appreciate it if people could fill in the gaps if im missing anything out of this list or if there is a better option! And by the way I already have a fridge, things i think i need are...

- 1 post mix keg $75
- 1 Micromatic CO2 Regulator $100
- Picnic tap set and beer out disconnect $19
- disconnect and line (for co2 to keg) $?
- cheapest way of getting co2 i can find, probs just a CO2 bottle that i'll just refill when empty, or hirinig $?

Not shure if im missing much out, appreciates of any help

Cheers the Drew :icon_cheers:


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## zoidbergmerc (18/3/10)

I gave ross at http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/ a call and he talked me though everything, Got a pretty sweet kegging system with 4 kegs and 2 taps for like $650. If you tell him you're on a budget I'm sure he'll help you out.

You can prolly get a CO2 Fire extinguisher and the your local fire brigade might fill it up for you, the one here in hobart does.


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## thesunsettree (18/3/10)

Drewcifer said:


> Hada search around for kegging but i just cant seem to find anything due to the poor search engine but, i would really appreciate it if people could fill in the gaps if im missing anything out of this list or if there is a better option! And by the way I already have a fridge, things i think i need are...
> 
> - 1 post mix keg $75
> - 1 Micromatic CO2 Regulator $100
> ...



hi mate,

if ur talking absolute minimals then yeah u should be able to pour a beer with what u have listed, u'll really need at least one more keg so u've got ur next beer coming on b4 the one on tap runs out. but that will get u started. of course a frig and some beer to putin the keg will help :icon_cheers: 

cheers
matt

the small co2 bottles 2.3kg r about 230bucks new and about 20bucks ti fill, 350ish for the 6.8kg, a keg lasts me about 2weeks and between carbing and kegging it needs filling a couple times a year (i have a 2.3kg bottle)


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## Crusty (18/3/10)

Hi Drew,
Seems like you have it pretty much sorted.
How many kegs can you fit in your fridge?
If you can fit more than one, I would look at getting one of these http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=749
You might as well gas two kegs at the same time. Only drawback with your regulator is you cannot carb your beer at the same time you wish to drink as you will be carbing your keg at different kpa than you are pouring. I went with one of these http://www.kegsonline.com.au/prod8.htm I can fit 4 kegs in my fridge so I can carb & pour with this regulator. Make sure you get JG beerline & JG quick disconnects http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=730 One for gas & the other for beer out, you will need two of these as well http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=744 & really look at one of these to save your regulator 
http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=738

Cheers,

Crusty


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## redlegger (18/3/10)

Gday Drew, i have just started kegging and i have the bare minimum i reckon....

I have 
2x Corny keg 
1x Beer Tap 
1x Regulator
2x Meters Beer & Gas Hose
4x Quick Disconnects
1x Large CO2 Cylinder (F size i think)
1x disused fridge (free)

I got the lot (excluding the gas bottle which i got thru my work account for $75  ) for about $280 off ebay, not bad i thought just to get me started, i intend to expand what i have and upgrade my regulator as i know the one i have is cheap and nasty, although it is doing the job atm.

There are other options for the CO2 bottle, i.e soda streams, fire extinguisher etc i guess that is up to you, your budget and how much mucking around your prepared to do, the CO2 cylinder was the easiest for me so thats what i went with.

I could do with more beer line because the beer is pouring a little quick for my liking, but apart from that i am happy with ive got to get me started!

Good luck!


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## MarkBastard (18/3/10)

Minimum I reckon would be...

1 keg
1 beer out disconnect
1 gas in disconnect
1 meter of line for gas
1 picnic tap with line
1 regulator
1 soda stream adapter
1 soda stream co2 bottle

It's actually not a bad setup either. Picnic taps are good and I would recommend them for beginners anyway, and they're handy to have around.

You would bulk prime with sugar to carbonate the keg and then just use the soda stream for serving, so it lasts longer.

Going above the minimum replace the soda stream adapter and bottle with a regular co2 bottle, either hired or bought, and use it to force carb and serve.


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## zoidbergmerc (18/3/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> You would bulk prime with sugar to carbonate the keg and then just use the soda stream for serving, so it lasts longer.



you can do that?! The lady at the LHBS said you cant


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## Pollux (18/3/10)

I kicked off with a 4 keg pack, micromatic reg, disconnects/line/fittings to be able to gas all four at once, picnic tap on a flexible line and a barbed beer disconnect.

Throw in a mykegonlegs 6.8kg bottle and I was away.

Since then I have purchased two perlick taps so I could pour beer without opening the fridge, but in reality they weren't a "necessity" 


Bear minimum in my mind is 

Source of CO2 (buy, rent, sodastream)
Reg
Line
Gas QD
Keg
Beer QD
Line
Tap


And a fridge to sit it all in.


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## Bribie G (18/3/10)

thesunsettree said:


> hi mate,
> 
> if ur talking absolute minimals then yeah u should be able to pour a beer with what u have listed, u'll really need at least one more keg so u've got ur next beer coming on b4 the one on tap runs out. but that will get u started. of course a frig and some beer to putin the keg will help :icon_cheers:
> 
> ...



thesunsettree - at the risk of sounding unfriendly,  on this forum we don't normally text if U get wht I m talking about - I 4 1 find it a bit irritating if u get wot IM talking bout buddy. I'm sure you got to at least grade 10.


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## thesunsettree (18/3/10)

BribieG said:


> thesunsettree - at the risk of sounding unfriendly,  on this forum we don't normally text if U get wht I m talking about - I 4 1 find it a bit irritating if u get wot IM talking bout buddy. I'm sure you got to at least grade 10.




point taken, im new to forums so all apologies (i have been a member since 08 but only actively contributed/viewed in the last few weeks after not viewing this forum for approx 12mths or more after first joining). personally i have no issues with txttype its quite the norm in my circles but if its not the standard here then i shall happily conform. thanks for the heads up, so i dont upset anyone else

cheers
matt


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## Bribie G (18/3/10)

thesunsettree said:


> point taken, im new to forums so all apologies (i have been a member since 08 but only actively contributed/viewed in the last few weeks after not viewing this forum for approx 12mths or more after first joining). personally i have no issues with txttype its quite the norm in my circles but if its not the standard here then i shall happily conform. thanks for the heads up, so i dont upset anyone else
> 
> cheers
> matt



Not upset, and welcome to the forum and your welcome participation - just a 'cultural' and 'netiquette' thing. :icon_cheers: 

Cheers and beers

Michael :icon_chickcheers:


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## MarkBastard (18/3/10)

Yep you certainly can carbonate a keg using sugar. Just works like a big bottle. I believe you put a lot less sugar in though.

Obviously your first pour may be a bit yeasty, and you'll have to let the beer condition warm for a while, then chill, then let sit for a while again for the yeast to drop out and the beer to clear more, but it certainly works.


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## wambesi (19/3/10)

zoidbergmerc said:


> you can do that?! The lady at the LHBS said you cant


Absolutely. Up until I got my fire ext recently my kegs were primed with sugar and just used the sodastream bottle to dispense - works a treat. 
To stop any possible yeast pouring out I simply bent the dip tube so it wasn't so close to the bottom.


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## mxd (19/3/10)

for CO2 you can hire the huge mother bottles for about $100, the smaller the bottle the more expensive. 

You can buy 2.6Kg bottles (ebay) between $160 to $170

C02 regs you can get for $70 (ebay)

I would recommend a min of 2 kegs (or better still Ross to do his xmas special again  )

good luck and welcome.


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## MarkMc (19/3/10)

BribieG said:


> thesunsettree - at the risk of sounding unfriendly,  on this forum we don't normally text if U get wht I m talking about - I 4 1 find it a bit irritating if u get wot IM talking bout buddy. I'm sure you got to at least grade 10.



we dnt txt cus the old bgrs dnt get it h34r:


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## Crusty (19/3/10)

*BribieG,
*
Without sounding disrespectful to you or anyone else, I think your comments to *thesunsettree *on using text type writing here on the forum does sound a little unfriendly. I think the mods or people in charge have the right to politically correct someone new to the forum about their posts, no-one else. I guess we all need to be a bit more cultural when posting on this forum. You take the time to post a criticism instead of posting a comment that would help the guy out. Posts such as this really ping me off.

You haven't upset anyone Matt, hope you hang around on the forum mate & welcome from me. 

Crusty


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## Andrew Coleman (19/3/10)

Cheers for the reply's I'm thinking of trying priming the keg with sugar, does anyone know how much sugar to use, is it the same amount I would use if i was bulk priming then bottling [usually around 140g for 23L batch fermented at 18C]?

And im considering the sodastream option but i can't seem to find much info about it, or where to buy/refil etc? Do these sodastream devices work similarly to Keg charger's and if so would could i just use one of these instead. therefore starting set up of...

x1 Post Mix Keg
[co2 from bulk prime]
x1 Picnic tap set up and beer out disconnect
x1 keg charger

just low on money at the moment so thinking of gradually buying more equiptment

Cheers from Drew


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## drsmurto (19/3/10)

BribieG said:


> thesunsettree - at the risk of sounding unfriendly,  on this forum we don't normally text if U get wht I m talking about - I 4 1 find it a bit irritating if u get wot IM talking bout buddy. I'm sure you got to at least grade 10.



Isn't that a bit 'pot calling the kettle black' Bribie?

I seem to recall you have the habit of spelling sugars, sugaz. 

Or even worse, da sugaz.


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## pyrobrewer (19/3/10)

Drewcifer said:


> Cheers for the reply's I'm thinking of trying priming the keg with sugar, does anyone know how much sugar to use, is it the same amount I would use if i was bulk priming then bottling [usually around 140g for 23L batch fermented at 18C]?
> 
> And im considering the sodastream option but i can't seem to find much info about it, or where to buy/refil etc? Do these sodastream devices work similarly to Keg charger's and if so would could i just use one of these instead. therefore starting set up of...
> 
> ...



You can also use the co2 created from your fermentation! When the brew still has about 2 plato (experiment here) left to go, transfer to the keg close prv

Carbonation level Dextrose-

High 7-10g/lt
Med 4-6g/lt
Low 0-3g/lt (clearly 0 will be only disolved co2 from fermentation)
For sugars other than dextrose:
The most predictable priming results are obtained from simple fully fermentable sugars such as dextrose or sucrose, but for if you like to experiment here is a guide for adjusting the quantity of priming sugar depending on the type you use. 

 Table sugar (sucrose) decrease numbers by 10%

 Dry malt extract increase by 20-25% (this depends on the brand and may take a little trial and error)

 Liquid malt extract increase by 40% (this depends on the brand and may take a little trial and error)

 Honey increase by 50%


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## Andrew Coleman (20/3/10)

pyrobrewer said:


> You can also use the co2 created from your fermentation! When the brew still has about 2 plato (experiment here) left to go, transfer to the keg close prv
> 
> Carbonation level Dextrose-
> 
> ...



Cheers for the info pyro how certain are you about this info mate? Just coz i'm probably gunna use ur advice given, sounds like just a lil less then bulk primming for bottling, howd you find this info out if you dont mind me askin by the way?

:icon_cheers: Cheers again from Druce


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## pyrobrewer (22/3/10)

Drewcifer said:


> Cheers for the info pyro how certain are you about this info mate? Just coz i'm probably gunna use ur advice given, sounds like just a lil less then bulk primming for bottling, howd you find this info out if you dont mind me askin by the way?
> 
> :icon_cheers: Cheers again from Druce



full details here

http://oz.craftbrewer.org/Library/Methods/...mpleGuide.shtml

http://oz.craftbrewer.org/Library/Methods/...icalGuide.shtml


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## Sammus (22/3/10)

Crusty said:


> Only drawback with your regulator is you cannot carb your beer at the same time you wish to drink as you will be carbing your keg at different kpa than you are pouring.



This is nonsense. You know if you're a little patient and leave the gas hooked up at pouring pressure it will carb up just the same. I've been doing this with a single output reg for 4 years now and have perfect carbonation and pouring every time.


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## MarkBastard (22/3/10)

Drewcifer said:


> And im considering the sodastream option but i can't seem to find much info about it, or where to buy/refil etc? Do these sodastream devices work similarly to Keg charger's and if so would could i just use one of these instead. therefore starting set up of...



Soda stream bottles are just small co2 cylinders that hold 330gm of co2. You can buy and swap them at KMart, which makes them really handy. To purchase the first one costs about $45. To purchase a refill costs about $15. So initial outlay is $45 for a filled canister.

Then you need to buy a soda stream adapter so that the soda stream bottle fits a standard regulator. This costs about $35 up. Ebay seems to have the cheapest ones. The one I got from Ebay works just fine.

Then you need a regulator. This you need if you have a full size co2 bottle too. I'd recommend a Micromatic which can be had for about $95.

Key chargers on the other hand will have a much cheaper up front cost because there's no regulator, but they don't allow you to regulate the gas flow so you may have too much or not enough pressure, and your carbonation level can change over time. They are fine for one-day use but for a home setup I wouldn't recommend it.


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## pyrobrewer (22/3/10)

Sammus said:


> This is nonsense. You know if you're a little patient and leave the gas hooked up at pouring pressure it will carb up just the same. I've been doing this with a single output reg for 4 years now and have perfect carbonation and pouring every time.



You are very lucky to have the Equalibrium pressure for the carbonation level of your chosen beer style, to match your pouring pressure as this is almost never the case. Each systen is a little different. 

Things to consider 

Temperature that the beer will be served at - this is required for setting the regulator pressure
Caronation level of the beer style/carbonation preference
Lenght and head (verticle height from the keg to the tap) of dispense line
ID of the dispense line - smaller diameter means higher resistance so a shorter length required

At around 2 degrees c you would set your reg to about 10PSI to achieve 2.5 volumes, for say, a typical aussie lager. This beer will be at equalibrium for these temp/pressure settings. However it is usually too high a pressure to pour, so we can balance the line lenght to achieve a pressure drop to the tap whislt maintaining equalibrium conditions. Patience is a virtue anyone can carbonate a beer in under an hour if required however maturation of flavour takes a little longer so why the rush.


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## MarkBastard (22/3/10)

pyrobrewer said:


> You are very lucky to have the Equalibrium pressure for the carbonation level of your chosen beer style, to match your pouring pressure as this is almost never the case.



It's not luck, it's just balancing your system.


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## pyrobrewer (22/3/10)

Mark^Bastard said:


> It's not luck, it's just balancing your system.




Correct. If you follow the thread back, the poster that I responded to, did not mention balancing hence my attempt at explaining balancing basics.


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## Crusty (22/3/10)

*Sammus,
*Nonsense, what do you mean nonsense.
If he has a single gauge regulator & gassing for 48hrs at 250kpa, he certainly aint gunna pour a beer at that pressure.

*Mark^Bastard,
*Whats balancing the system got to do with anything. If you aren't patient enough to carb your beer at serving pressure, 40-80kpa which most people aren't, a lot of people gas at 300kpa & roll the keg round for a bit. I'd love to see a beer poured at that pressure. I myself set my reg at 90pka & leave it alone for a full week, works great for me. I don't like drinking it before at least a week anyhow.


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## pyrobrewer (22/3/10)

Crusty said:


> *
> * I myself set my reg at 90pka & leave it alone for a full week, works great for me. I don't like drinking it before at least a week anyhow.




Great to hear that works for you crusty, Bravo!Well done.
Sadly it wont work for everyone. Serving pressure (the pressure at the tap) is usualy not the same as the equalibrum pressure ( in the keg to maintain the co2 volumes required for the style) in an unbalanced system. You need to maintain the beer at equalibrium pressure in the keg (say 10psi) and reduce this pressure (to say 2 psi) by the time you reach the tap.


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## Crusty (22/3/10)

Pyro,
I generally make a lot of ales & tend to overcarb a little. Last recipe called for 74kpa @ 4deg but I set it at 90kpa @ 4deg & find that works pretty good. I don't mind it cold & a little gassy, ex coca cola drinker here. I tend to do this with all my beers & make sure everything else is true to style but don't focus on carbonation level being true to style, some are a little flat for me. I hadn't even thought about pressure difference from keg to tap, some good points you raised there.


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## pyrobrewer (22/3/10)

Crusty said:


> Pyro,
> I generally make a lot of ales & tend to overcarb a little. Last recipe called for 74kpa @ 4deg but I set it at 90kpa @ 4deg & find that works pretty good. I don't mind it cold & a little gassy, ex coca cola drinker here. I tend to do this with all my beers & make sure everything else is true to style but don't focus on carbonation level being true to style, some are a little flat for me. I hadn't even thought about pressure difference from keg to tap, some good points you raised there.



Yes it seems that there is quite a range of accepable co2 levels, if it fist wear it! had a laugh about the coke :lol: 
If you drop from equalibrium pressure to dispence pressure you beer will slowly de -gas to the new equalibrium pressure


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## Sammus (22/3/10)

equilibrium pressure is pointless worrying about too. My first keg setup I spent all this time working out pressure loss due to lines and was anal about tap height and fridge temperature and all that, now I just set the reg to pour at a decent speed, and the carb is fine all the time every time. Is it 2.3 volumes? is it 2.5 volumes? got forbid its 2.6! it may not be spot on for style, but tbh I used to be anal about it, im not now, and I cant tell the difference. Bloke who told me I scoffed and didnt believe him. Tried it anyway and couldn't be happier. I've never accidently overcarbed or been unhappy with the carb level in my beer. In fact, the last person I served told me about how hed never seen someone with a keg setup that could consistantly pour beer than didnt have carb problems half the time.

Crusty: "If he has a single gauge regulator & gassing for 48hrs at 250kpa, he certainly aint gunna pour a beer at that pressure." Well yes, indeed, *if* he is carbing like that of course it wont pour properly, hence my rant about setting it at pouring pressure to begin with 

No harm guy, 'nonsense' wasn't meant to be offensive Crusty, just pointing out that a lot of people stress the importance of these things much more than they have to. Unless your tap is a picnic tap that's connected directly to the outpost, I doubt youll have any problems. Any appreciable length of beer line will give you enough pressure drop for it all to work itself out 

After all, OP is asking about the minimum he can get by on, and to answer the OP: Carb with sugar, and get a plastic picnic tap and a soda bulb adaptor for serving. Can't get cheaper than that 
http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=898
http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=871
http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=715
http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=711
http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=979
http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=980

Isn't the best or most efficient way of doing it, but probably the cheapest.

Least I'd recomment is a 2 kegs, a gas bottle (hire from BOC, or if you think youll use it for longer than 3 years its cheaper to buy one from mykegonlegs or similar), a reg, some line and a proper tap (shirron or floryte or similar) - plus hose and connectors. Use T-pieces to split the gas amongst any kegs you have and serve from one at a time. Use about 1m of beer line between keg and tap, set pressure to about 55kpa. make sure the kegs are connected for at least a week before serving.


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## pyrobrewer (22/3/10)

Sammus said:


> equilibrium pressure is pointless worrying about



I dont think anyone is sugesting you worry about it, Just that you understand it and how it relates to carbonation so also not pointless


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