# New Kit: Coopers European Lager



## discoloop

Stumbled upon this on the Coopers site today:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
A NEW BREW!!

Look for EUROPEAN LAGER in variety stores and supermarkets.

Europe is home to a multitude of breweries and as such, boasts a greater variety of beer styles than any other region in the world. Europe , being the birthplace of lager style beer, is considered to be the heartland of premium lager. Coopers European Lager captures the style of the finest quality lagers exported from Northern Europe . Serve well chilled in a tall, narrow glass with a generous head of 5cm or so and savour the herbaceous hop aroma and crisp finish. 

For the best results mix with 1kg of Coopers Brew Enhancer 2 and store for at least 12 weeks in the bottle prior to drinking.

Colour - 90EBC, Bitterness - 340IBU
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Haven't seen it in the stores yet, so I'm guessing it's _really_ new. But has anyone tried it? Or know what kind of yeast it uses? 

Linky: http://www.coopers.com.au/homebrew/hbrew.p...d=1&id=2188


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## sluggerdog

discoloop said:


> Stumbled upon this on the Coopers site today:
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> A NEW BREW!!
> 
> Colour - 90EBC, *Bitterness - 340IBU*
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Linky: http://www.coopers.com.au/homebrew/hbrew.p...d=1&id=2188




IBu's are off the rictor scale, even if they mean 34 this is still very high for a euro lager. I'm sure they will sell a stack though.


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## Adamt

Probably 340IBU in the can, once you dilute it to ~20L you get 17IBU. The dark 90EBC will fade too.


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## sluggerdog

Ahh Adamt... that makes more sense


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## drsmurto

if you follow the instructions to 23L you get ~15 IBUs. Yawn.

Looks like it set up perfectly for all you toucan brewers...... assuming it actually comes with a lager yeast <_<


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## shamus

is this replacing the Bavarian Lager? At Coles the other day they had 'Discontinued' stuck on the shelf for Bavarian Lager.


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## shamus

just checkedthe Coopers webstie and it looks like they have the Bavarian and the European. I'm assuming it comes with a lager yeast too?


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## Hutch

DrSmurto said:


> if you follow the instructions to 23L you get ~15 IBUs. Yawn.


...and just as well - isohop bitterness leaves a lot to be desired! :icon_vomit: 
It doesn't matter what hops they say they use for their various styles, they artificially bitter these kits, and you can really taste it with 2can brews.
Much better that the cans are under-bittered, and the brewer add bitterness as required for the style (eg BoPils).
I'll be giving this one a try for sure - summer keg filler!


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## ironxmortlock

shamus said:


> is this replacing the Bavarian Lager? At Coles the other day they had 'Discontinued' stuck on the shelf for Bavarian Lager.



Don't know if the Bavarian is done but I've also seen on special at Coles. At K-Mart it was $9.90! Not bad for pretty reasonable kit with real lager yeast.


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## keef12345

Well The lager will be interesting. I would like to give it a go. 
what would be a good adjunct mix?? 

I have not tryed any of the coopers international range of tins. 
Some seem a little over priced. 

Has anyone had any success with them?


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## BEC26

IRONxMortlock said:


> Don't know if the Bavarian is done but I've also seen on special at Coles. At K-Mart it was $9.90! Not bad for pretty reasonable kit with real lager yeast.




$8.00 at my local Big W . . .3 cans left, all with late 2009 dates as well, Off to get them tomorrow!

Cheers


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## grantmb

The brewing guide on the Coopers website recommends to be kept in bottle for 12 weeks before drinking.

I don't think I could wait that long :icon_cheers: 

Has anyone else brewed this one? I would like to hear about it.


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## Thunderlips

shamus said:


> is this replacing the Bavarian Lager? At Coles the other day they had 'Discontinued' stuck on the shelf for Bavarian Lager.


I bloody well hope not.
Out of all their kits that's my favourite.


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## sid

I'd like to try the other coopers range, but here in NZ they only sell the original series In the supermarkets, $10.50 a kit. I might have to get my sister to send a couple of the international kits over.
Is there much of a difference between original and international?


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## Thunderlips

sid said:


> Is there much of a difference between original and international?


They are a step up in my opinion, apart from the Mexican Cerveza, which I thought was terrible.


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## Katherine

:chug: I make a really nice beer out of the Mexican Cerveza, My chilli Kaffir lime leaf beer... Its yummy!


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## turto77

Katie said:


> :chug: I make a really nice beer out of the Mexican Cerveza, My chilli Kaffir lime leaf beer... Its yummy!



i like the sound of that one Katie, could you share the recipe. :beer:


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## Katherine

It was one of my first and simpliest brews but so far the nicest. I HATE corona but somehow this turns out really nice.

1 can of Coopers Mexican Cerveza
1 kilo of Enchancer 1 or 2 what ever you prefer (Ive tried both and I like it with 2)
then all you do is chop up 4 HOT chillis and a handful of Kaffir Lime Leaves 
throw them into the carboy before pitching the yeast

I dont rack this beer no need.

You will find after one week in the bottle the kaffir lime leaf is really potent and the chilli is in the back ground. Quite sickly... But after 3 weeks in the bottle the Kaffir Lime Leaf takes back stage and the chilli comes through. Great summer Quaffer! People love it. Dont go over board with the chillis otherwise people wont go near it. I have found with just four HOT chillis it gives it just a hint on heat.

Cheers :beer:


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## keef12345

Katie said:


> It was one of my first and simpliest brews but so far the nicest. I HATE corona but somehow this turns out really nice.
> 
> 1 can of Coopers Mexican Cerveza
> 1 kilo of Enchancer 1 or 2 what ever you prefer (Ive tried both and I like it with 2)
> then all you do is chop up 4 HOT chillis and a handful of Kaffir Lime Leaves
> throw them into the carboy before pitching the yeast
> 
> I dont rack this beer no need.
> 
> You will find after one week in the bottle the kaffir lime leaf is really potent and the chilli is in the back ground. Quite sickly... But after 3 weeks in the bottle the Kaffir Lime Leaf takes back stage and the chilli comes through. Great summer Quaffer! People love it. Dont go over board with the chillis otherwise people wont go near it. I have found with just four HOT chillis it gives it just a hint on heat.
> 
> Cheers :beer:



chilli and beer ?? whats next?


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## turto77

Katie said:


> It was one of my first and simpliest brews but so far the nicest. I HATE corona but somehow this turns out really nice.
> 
> 1 can of Coopers Mexican Cerveza
> 1 kilo of Enchancer 1 or 2 what ever you prefer (Ive tried both and I like it with 2)
> then all you do is chop up 4 HOT chillis and a handful of Kaffir Lime Leaves
> throw them into the carboy before pitching the yeast
> 
> I dont rack this beer no need.
> 
> You will find after one week in the bottle the kaffir lime leaf is really potent and the chilli is in the back ground. Quite sickly... But after 3 weeks in the bottle the Kaffir Lime Leaf takes back stage and the chilli comes through. Great summer Quaffer! People love it. Dont go over board with the chillis otherwise people wont go near it. I have found with just four HOT chillis it gives it just a hint on heat.
> 
> Cheers :beer:




Thanks Katie, i will give it a go in the next couple of weeks.


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## keef12345

Turto said:


> Thanks Katie, i will give it a go in the next couple of weeks.



I have not seen this new coopers europe lager in any stores im from newcastle....


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## Adamt

As far as I know about this European Lager kit, distribution has only just started for it, and I'm 99% sure that it comes with a true lager yeast. The recommendation of a 12 week bottling would suggest this is true.


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## Jaeger

BEC26 said:


> $8.00 at my local Big W . . .3 cans left, all with late 2009 dates as well, Off to get them tomorrow!
> 
> Cheers



I picked up two cans at Big W yesterday - couldn't go past them at that price!

I'm thinking of making a toucan "ale" from them (see: Coopers Bavarian Ale?)


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## Jaeger

keef12345 said:


> chilli and beer ?? whats next?


Well, chocolate and beer has already been done... How about a chilli chocolate stout? 

I tried some Lindt chilli dark chocolate recently that would be up to the task, though perhaps a bit more chilli wouldn't hurt.
I haven't tried making a chilli beer yet, but in cooking I prefer to remove the seeds to tone down the heat a bit.

Katie - I assume your "HOT" chillies are the little red ones you see in supermarkets? ("Birds eye" chillies, I think.)


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## ibast

OK I set started a European Lager twocan on the weekend with a Hallerau teabag.

It does come with a Lager years and the guff that comes with it suggests it can handle quite high temps. Yeast is one thing Coopers do really well.

By the green bottle on the label it's pretty obvious what beer they are aiming at.

Unfortunately I don't have a brew fridge so I'm going to be brewing a bit high, but I will let you know how it goes.


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## ibast

Ok just an update.

SG 1049
FG 1009 and took quite a few days to get that last point.

Unfortunately it brewed about 23 degrees but that was on the stick on thermometer. Given that I was using a wet towel, it was in a cool pat of the house and it hasn't been that hot in Sydney I suspect the stick on is reading a bit high.

The fact that it took two weeks to brew out supports this.

I finned it to get some of the cloudiness out as I'm not set up for lagering. Still got a bit of cloudiness in the bottom couple of litres but I'm hoping it will settle in the bottom of the keg.

The colour is good and initial taste indicate it's quite high in bitterness. It's in the keg and I'll let you know how it's drinking after a week or so.


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## RobboMC

At Big W this week the bav lager was all gone but the shelf had a discontinued label on it for $8,
so it seems Big W think the Bav lager is history. Dickh**ds had stacked the empty shelf with Coopers APA,
so I got that for the $8, so one cheap APA batch coming up.

I've done the Bav lager with 2 kg of added malt and and it comes out great with the kit yeast. 
I hope the new European lager cans work the same way.


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## Katherine

> I've done the Bav lager with 2 kg of added malt and and it comes out great with the kit yeast.
> I hope the new European lager cans work the same way.



Do you know if the European Lager comes with lager yeast?


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## ibast

Katie said:


> Do you know if the European Lager comes with lager yeast?


Yes it does


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## gerald

wow, my first post here on the forums.

just started brewing, instead of starting out with the lager can that comes with the coopers kit i decided to go for the euro lager. this was all done on 0 experience and no idea on anything brewing related. since then ive done SOOOOOO much reading and would do it completely different. anyway lets see.

i followed the instructions, it was pretty hot when i did it all, was at around 27 for the first few days and it was bubbling pretty crazy!

then it dropped right down to 18 or 19 or so. then completely stopped. then the last 2 days its slightly warmed up (also used a heater :-D ) and after giving the brew a good stir it kidna kicked back into life for a few hours, then stopped. it was now at around 22degrees.

the FG was 1009. upon bottling it, it seems VERY light, similar to a corona or something. im kinda disapointed cos its my first homebrew and i wanted it to be good. 

but i guess its a learning curve and i KNOW my next one will be better  as ive done heaps of reading and i will be doing more than just tipping a can into boiling water this time :-D

anyway i bottled it tonight and i will tell ya how it goes soon. 12 weeks - so cant wait that long....might crack one in mid jan. i also bottled one with a piece of lemon so will let ya know how that goes too.

cya
gerald


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## Thunderlips

ibast said:


> initial taste indicate it's quite high in bitterness.


Isn't that to be expected when using two cans?
I've never done it myself but pretty much all I've read here indicates that most are near on undrinkable early on.


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## boingk

Just put down a simple brew with the Coopers Euro Lager kit, 1kg LDME and 12g Hallertau @ ~10 minutes...wasn't particularly counting. Should turn out ok, and I'm going to have a crack at using a sachet of Saf W34/70 that I've had lying around for a month or three.

I'll let everyone know how it went in a few months, meanwhile I'll continue to enjoy the porter I made up a while ago...ah...delicious!

Cheers - boingk

PS - a 1.7kg tin is 1.25L right? And a brew is running 22 [leaving headspace I find an extra litre doesnt do anything except foul the bottom of your fermenter]. So the kit is 340 IBU. Divide 22 by 1.25 and you have 17.6 ... divide 340 by that and you come out with 19.3-ish IBU. Not so bad, but thats why I prefer Wal's Concentrates...with REAL hops!


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## Boonie

keef12345 said:


> I have not seen this new coopers europe lager in any stores im from newcastle....



BIG W Charlestown Square has some, sorry wee bit late....


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## bigbanko

I put one of these down today using the BE2 and steeped 150g of light munic to freshen it up a little.

Smells a lot like the Bavarian to me.

Will be a good comparison as I am drinking my all grain Munich larger at the moment.


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## kevnlis

bigbanko said:


> I put one of these down today using the BE2 and steeped 150g of light munic to freshen it up a little.
> 
> Smells a lot like the Bavarian to me.
> 
> Will be a good comparison as I am drinking my all grain Munich larger at the moment.



I hope you mean Caramunich I...

I broke from the AG law and put one down just because it is a new Coopers kit... I added 500g LLME and 10g of NS at 15 and 5. Will dry hop with 15-20g NS and see how I go


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## bigbanko

kevnlis said:


> I hope you mean Caramunich I...
> 
> I broke from the AG law and put one down just because it is a new Coopers kit... I added 500g LLME and 10g of NS at 15 and 5. Will dry hop with 15-20g NS and see how I go




No I steeped Munich I malt. I have steeped base grains in the past in a lot of lagers just to freshen up a kit without adding too much to the colour or overall flavour. I find does help with head retention quite a bit.

You say you dry hop with NS - I assume this is Nelson sauvin. I was thinking of dry hopping with 12-15g ofHallertau.

I also broke the Ag law and done this kit because it's new. This would be my first kit in 2 years.


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## Rossco

So has anyone reached their 12 weeks yet...or tried it?

My 12 weeks will be up around the middle of April


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## ibast

Rossco said:


> So has anyone reached their 12 weeks yet...or tried it?
> 
> My 12 weeks will be up around the middle of April




I finished my keg off weeks ago. then a few days ago I opened a bottle after having not drunk it for a few weeks and I was surprised how good it was. so it's pretty good yeast.

When the weather get a bit cooler I will be doing another one.


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## Hutch

Rossco said:


> So has anyone reached their 12 weeks yet...or tried it?
> 
> My 12 weeks will be up around the middle of April



I also broke the AG law and made one of these up a month ago to around 3.6%, with the following additions...
* 250gm Dex
* 250g light DME
* 10gm Bsaaz flowers (10mins)
* 10gm Southern Cross flowers (0mins)
* made to 19Ltrs
* Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager slurry from previous brew, fermented at 12deg.

...OK, so not exactly according to the standard K&K recipe, though I wanted to make a nice simple mid-strength keg-filler, and test out the quality of this kit as a base in the process. Only 2 weeks in the keg, and I can say it is probably the best kit beer I've made to date (although my process is a little better now than in my kit days!).
Colour is nice and pale, light body, with very little noticable kit twang (much less than say the Coopers Aussie Pale kit).
I'm leaving it to lager for several more weeks, as I really find that kit and extract brews need a lot longer to mature than AG brews.

I've also used one of these kits as a base to great efffect in a 7% Bock (partial mash) - you cannot taste the kit at all in that brew!


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## peas_and_corn

shamus said:


> is this replacing the Bavarian Lager? At Coles the other day they had 'Discontinued' stuck on the shelf for Bavarian Lager.



It's possible that the new planogram doesn't have it there (in that case be ready for everything in that bay to be moved around). Either that or indeed Coopers isn't making it any more.



RobboMC said:


> At Big W this week the bav lager was all gone but the shelf had a discontinued label on it for $8,
> so it seems Big W think the Bav lager is history. Dickh**ds had stacked the empty shelf with Coopers APA,
> so I got that for the $8, so one cheap APA batch coming up.
> 
> I've done the Bav lager with 2 kg of added malt and and it comes out great with the kit yeast.
> I hope the new European lager cans work the same way.



Good work! Though you might have gotten it for free if you paid for it at full price and then complained- scanning code of practice kicks in then and you get the item for free. Just to note if it happens another time


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## boingk

I've made this up with 500g LDME, 250g Dextrose and 250g Maltodextrin as well as 12g Hallertau @ 20min and the same dry hopped into primary...couldn't be assed racking this one. After 6 weeks its come out alright, body is a bit thinish, but quite drinkable. I used the stock yeast at around 17-19'C and its come out quite clean. Has decent bitterness and the flavour profile really isn't bad for the money, although its a bit thin and not too complex...but it was the kit yeast with minor mods after all. There is sweet jack all aroma however - dry-hopping in secondary is the way to go with this one.

Personally I'd be adding 1kg LDME or 1.5kf liquid light malt extract as well as at least 10g flavour hops at 20 minutes and at least another 10g hopping dry in secondary. 150g Munich specialty grain wouldn't go too far astray with this one either. I don't think that mix would dissapoint anyone for the money.

Cheers - boingk

EDIT: Forgot to add - this holds quite a decent head; I don't pour mine hard at all or I end up with a 50:50 beer/head mix! Not the closest head around but it'll stay there for a while as well as looking impressive initially.


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## Hutch

boingk said:


> There is sweet jack all aroma however - dry-hopping in secondary is the way to go with this one.


Very true. For a "Euro Lager", it has jack all aroma, and a good handfull in a short boil and/or dry hop makes a big improvement.
Asside from being a little thin and bland, the hop bitterness is clean, instead of the horrid isohop bitterness used in many kits.
This is a definite plus for such a light-bodied kit.
Also agree that a few hundred grams of Munich or light German specialty grain wouldn't go astray as well.


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## soupbones

I have made this kit a number of times now, and in my opinion it is one of the best kits out there. Comes out true to style. A bit of waiting also helps it a lot, but if you like the euro lagers as I do, then this one is a winner. Does not seem to get the twang like so many other kit cans do either. Does lack a little in aroma, but when I make this I usually always chuck in a hallertau tea bag after pitching to fix this. Other then that, its a cheap and simple K&K that comes out good always. I have made two of these already and they are great. Third one is maturing in the keg as I type in the fridge. It has been neglected for a couple of weeks du to me being away, but that won't hurt it one bit. It wil come out a ripper in the end.


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## l7edwards

Did this one about 6 weeks ago. Recipe: kit, BE2, 12g saaz at 15mins and 15g b saaz steeped 20mins and kit yeast.
So far it still needs a bit of time in the bottle, still quite green, but i can imagine it being great in another 6 weeks or so


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## Mclovin

Just picked up a tin. Planing to mix with
1.5 kg can of Black Rock blonde malt extract
500 g of LDME 
150 g of Munich malt grain (steeped)
15g Hallertau for 20 min 
10 g Hallertau for 2 min

I am not using any dextrose what % alc vol would i be looking at here? Any ideas ?


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## sponge

Youd probably end up with a fairly sweet brew with that

Kit + 2kg of malt + 150g munich would leave a fair amount of sugar. Possibly boiling up some more of the hallertau for longer will increase the bitterness and help balance the sweetness

Just my 2c worth tho. Try waiting for more suggestions


Sponge


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## Dave86

Mclovin said:


> Just picked up a tin. Planing to mix with
> 1.5 kg can of Black Rock blonde malt extract
> 500 g of LDME
> 150 g of Munich malt grain (steeped)
> 15g Hallertau for 20 min
> 10 g Hallertau for 2 min
> 
> I am not using any dextrose what % alc vol would i be looking at here? Any ideas ?



That'll probably come in pretty high (depending on your batch size of course), which is fine if thats what you're after. Here's a handy tool for rough calculations for doing k&k. I'm pretty sure the alcohol estimator is off though. Just plugging the numbers for your recipe gives an OG of 1.057 for a 23L batch.

Hope this is useful

Dave

Edit: If I were making this, I'd leave the LDME out to reduce the sweetness, Cheers


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## soupbones

This is a great kit for experimenting with. Does not matter really what you do, its going to turn out pretty good if you ak me. All the modification suggestions on here have been great if you ask me. The kit is a bit low on aroma as has already been suggested, so make sure no matter what you do, you give it a dry hop at the end.


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## itguy1953

sponge said:


> Youd probably end up with a fairly sweet brew with that
> 
> Kit + 2kg of malt + 150g munich would leave a fair amount of sugar. Possibly boiling up some more of the hallertau for longer will increase the bitterness and help balance the sweetness
> 
> Sponge



I agree that the brew will end up fairly sweet. The problem arises as only approx 80% of malt fully ferments, leaving behind some residual sugar. Hop alpha acid is added to beer to balance this out.

If you are using kegs, go ahead and make the brew, then when you drink it, see how sweet it is. 

If it is to sweet, add 12 drops of isohops to 18 litres to increase bitterness by 6 IBU. Then drink, and add more isohops as required. Isohops need 1-2 days to settle out. Drink it, and then add more isohops as required. 

In my experience a sweet brew from a kit with 1.2kg of LME needs 6 IBU to balance it out. As you are adding more LME, you might need to add more IBU.

Once you know how many IBU's you need to add for next time, you can boil up your malt extracts with hops to get the bitterness direct from hops.


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## Mclovin

1.5 kg can of Black Rock blonde LME 
150 g of Munich malt grain (steeped)
15g Hallertau for 20 min 
10 g Hallertau for 2 min

Sound like this is going to be a bit more spot on. I think the bloke at the HBS just wanted to make the extra cash and sold me the extra 500g bag of LDME. I may add 5-10g of Polyclar after lagering temp from 11'C to 18'C for 3 days and back down to 1'C then carbonate and store for a fue weeks.

Doing some sums found Original SG= 1.050 and Final SG= 1.014 
14-50= 36 
36/7.36= 4.8 % Alc Vol.


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## Sassman

I am a newby to the forum and the jargen used what is LDME (is it liquid deextro malt extract?)


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## Dave86

Light
Dry
Malt
Extract


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## Hammer

soupbones said:


> This is a great kit for experimenting with. Does not matter really what you do, its going to turn out pretty good if you ak me. All the modification suggestions on here have been great if you ask me. The kit is a bit low on aroma as has already been suggested, so make sure no matter what you do, you give it a dry hop at the end.




I currently have a Coopers Euro larger in my primary fermenter. It has been in there for 10 days, at around 14C. 

Normally i builk prime the brew into a secondary fermenter.

Is is possible for me to dry hop the brew at the end to improve it? if so, what should I do?

Thanks for your time!


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## Hammer

soupbones said:


> This is a great kit for experimenting with. Does not matter really what you do, its going to turn out pretty good if you ak me. All the modification suggestions on here have been great if you ask me. The kit is a bit low on aroma as has already been suggested, so make sure no matter what you do, you give it a dry hop at the end.




I currently have a Coopers Euro larger in my primary fermenter. It has been in there for 10 days, at around 14C. 

Normally i builk prime the brew into a secondary fermenter.

Is is possible for me to dry hop the brew at the end to improve it? if so, what should I do?

Thanks for your time!


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## Hefty

Dave86 said:


> Light
> Dry
> Malt
> Extract


The only problem with that is that I've seen some members on here use that to mean 
Liquid
Dark
Malt
Extract
(I know in this case he did mention that it came in a bag but it can still be confusing)

Jono.


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## bconnery

Mclovin said:


> Just picked up a tin. Planing to mix with
> 1.5 kg can of Black Rock blonde malt extract
> 500 g of LDME
> 150 g of Munich malt grain (steeped)
> 15g Hallertau for 20 min
> 10 g Hallertau for 2 min
> 
> I am not using any dextrose what % alc vol would i be looking at here? Any ideas ?



I agree that this might be a bit sweeter but also Munich malt is a base grain that requires a mash to convert. You won't get any benefit from just steeping it, unless you steep it for long enough, and keep the temp within 60-70C, or in other words, mash it. 
If you do want to do a mini-mash then use more and drop some fo the extract. 
Far better off to leave it out, especially in that amounts. 

I've always read the abbreviations as DME and LME, with L(ight) , A(mber), D(ark) prefixed as required. If none, assume light generally.


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## Mclovin

bconnery said:


> I agree that this might be a bit sweeter but also Munich malt is a base grain that requires a mash to convert. You won't get any benefit from just steeping it, unless you steep it for long enough, and keep the temp within 60-70C, or in other words, mash it.
> If you do want to do a mini-mash then use more and drop some fo the extract.
> Far better off to leave it out, especially in that amounts.



Change of plans new recipe
1.7kg kit of coopers euro lager
1.5kg can of Black rock blonde liquid malt extract. 
150g of munich malt grain
15g of hallertau @ 20 min
10g of hallertau @ 2 min 

Ok. I may have my terminalogy wrong. I plan to place the 150g of munich malt grain onto a chopping board and crush it with a rolling pin. Place the crushed grain into a saucepan with 2-4 ltr of water and over a period of 30 min heat to 75 'C let the grain sit at 75 'C for another 30 min. After the heating process is complete strain the liquor from the pot into my fermenter. 

How much Munich malt grain should i use? How much liquid malt extract should i use?


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## kalbarluke

First time post:

I bottled a Coopers European Lager in early April. I bought it from Kmart in Ipswich (near Brisbane). Used a Brewiser "Premium"sugar. Turned out beautiful. It did have a real German lager taste. One of the nicest beers I have ever made. I have about 6 left.
I tried the Bavarian years ago but it was poo so I never tried it again.
I have tried to find the European lager elsewhere but so far have come up empty handed. I'll keep looking though. Strongly recommend, but then again I'm not too picky.


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## soupbones

Hammer said:


> I currently have a Coopers Euro larger in my primary fermenter. It has been in there for 10 days, at around 14C.
> 
> Normally i builk prime the brew into a secondary fermenter.
> 
> Is is possible for me to dry hop the brew at the end to improve it? if so, what should I do?
> 
> Thanks for your time!



It sure is. If your going to rack to a secondary then just go purchase a hops tea bag from the brew shop, sanatise a coffee cup and throw in some boiling water. Throw in your tea pag and let it sit for 10 mins or so. Then put the whole lot in your secondary and leave for a week or so. It should add the aroma and taste you want to the brew. I would go for something that suits the style. Hallertau is a good one that works well. I am experimenting with adding wheat malt and Hersbucker to mine this time.


----------



## Beer&Kebab

Ok, I have just bought one of these European Lager Kits.. I have 1.5 kg of Liquid Wheat Extract. 1kg of BE2 and 1KG of BE1.. Oh and 50grams of Hallertau pellets.. I would very much appreciate opinions on the best recipe based on above ingredients..


----------



## reg

I am currently drinking a european lager from my keg.
I used the can
BE2 kit and 
40 grams Hallertau hops using the 20/20 method( 20 grams boiled for 10 min then the other 20 soaked with flame out for 10min and added to wort)

I think that it was one of the best kits I have made and very simple.


----------



## Bribie G

According to the Coopers website the Euro lager is hinted as more of a Heineken / Pilsener style rather than a German? They say that it has extra Saaz added so I guess if you are adding extra hops on top of this, some more Saaz would be the way to go. Currently my LHBS still has a couple of cartons of the discontinued Coopers Bavarian Lager left so I'm taking the opportunity to brew about 4 of those, before it disappears forever, then I'll try the European Lager and do a comparo.

I already have a Bavarian 5 days in the fermenter. I'ts not too cold here at the moment and it's sitting on about 20 degrees in the garage. Added 500 LDME and 750 dex with Hallertau teabag. Opinion on the forum seems to be that the Euro lacks body and aroma so I'll probably go a kg of LDME, some maltodextrin and extra Saaz and what the heck 500 dex for extra ABV  . Probably beginning of August.


----------



## Mattywalnuts

I brewed one of The european larger kits a couple of months ago (after being devo that i couldn't get a hold of the bavarian tins anymore), around june, after a long hiatus from brewing, finally tasting it about 2 weeks ago, and it wasn't half bad. However i was hoping for a 'becks' style of beer, but it was lacking in the hops aroma and taste. 

All in all, its not a bad drop, and it can easily be improved upon. Its starting to get too warm where i am at the moment to brew it again this year, but next winter i'll be definitely brewing it, in some variation.


----------



## buttersd70

I tried this for the first time about a week ago. I got a couple of bottles of a friend of a friend. It was, without doubt, the most disgusting beer I've ever had in my life (even including VB) :icon_vomit: . I asked my mate, "was this brewed at lager temps?", to which he laughed, and said "I doubt it!" :lol: I'm thinking of re-labeling it "Cider"  

So I'm yet to taste this kit brewed _correctly_.


----------



## Pton

Hi.

3 days ago I brew my first beer. I've bought Coopers European Lager. For fermentation I used enclosed yeast. I'm wondering what is the best temperature for brewing with enclosed yeast? I also don't know when the fermentation will ended, do I have to transfuse beer into a second fermentator for a few days or just start with bottling after ended fermentation?


----------



## Mcstretch

Hi all,

I brewed up one of these about 6 weeks ago now, I didn't add anything extra just followed instructions.

I carbed it up with the lollie drops and then let it sit for 2 weeks. 

I found that between 2 and 4 weeks in the bottle there was a real sweetness to the flavour that MOH really enjoyed. however after 4 weeks the drop began to mature into beer I have a few bottles I'm saving to really let age, but next time I do this I will let it sit for a few months

cheers,


----------



## Pton

Mcstretch, did you transfused beer from first fermenter to another, or you just start with bottling, after ended fermentation? What was the temperature you brew?


----------



## glaab

Hi Pton,

I quizzed Coopers about their lager yeast and this was their reply;
*I asked if I could use their supplied Lager yeast at 12C, this didn't really answer that though,

Hello Chris,



The sachet supplied contains a blend of ale and lager yeast so you will achieve clean, crisp lager characteristics if you pitch at 22C and set your thermostat for 16C. The ale yeast will still chug along at that temperature. 



Cheers,





Frank Akers

Home Brew Advisor

Coopers Brewery

Adelaide, SA



Toll free 1300 654 455


----------



## Bribie G

Well well, what a good find, my little grasshopper :icon_cheers: 

For the last year since the Euro Lager came on the market the general wisdom on the forum has been "The Euro lager comes with a genuine lager yeast etc etc etc..." and it looks like Coopers have rather decided to provide a very wide spectrum blend of yeast to take account of the fact that people will be brewing this stuff in their garage from Launceston to Groote Eylandt and trying to make it as 'bullet proof' as possible.

Whatever, it's certainly a good idea to brew it at, say 17 or 18 degrees if you can, and you should get a fair trade off between clean fermentation and fairly quick fermentation, IMHO.


----------



## AussieJosh

I am a member of the cooppers club. as far as i know coopers european lageger is and lager yeast. i will message Paul the coopers hombrew guy on the forums and find out whats the deal regarding glaabs post


----------



## Pton

Thanks. So 18'C is good temperature for brewing, but I still dont know if you transfuse beer from one fermenter to another, or you just start with bottling when fermentation in first fermenter is at the end. And I have one more question... what is the price of one can of european lager ( 1,7Kg ) in your country?


----------



## AussieJosh

I would not brew coopers european lager any higher then 18. I spoke to Paul from coopers he said its a lager yeast. When i brewd mine it went between 13 and 16c.
from memory a can is about $12 or $13 Australian dollers.
there is no need to transfer the beer to a second fermenter.


----------



## Pton

Thanks AussieJosh for your answers!

A can of Coopers european lager cost 15 EUR in our country, that is 26 Australian dollers. Yes... quite expensive, but hey... I have no choice. If I want to brew, I want to buy it at this price. By the way... I'm from Slovenia.
I'm also wondering, how much time must beer waits in fermenter after ended fermentation. I heard, I shouldn't start with bottling right after fermentation.


----------



## felten

Pton said:


> Thanks AussieJosh for your answers!
> 
> A can of Coopers european lager cost 15 EUR in our country, that is 26 Australian dollers. Yes... quite expensive, but hey... I have no choice. If I want to brew, I want to buy it at this price. By the way... I'm from Slovenia.
> I'm also wondering, how much time must beer waits in fermenter after ended fermentation. I heard, I shouldn't start with bottling right after fermentation.



I usually leave mine for 2 weeks in the primary, that gives the yeast time to condition the beer, and shouldn't result in any off flavours.


----------



## AussieJosh

Pton

Beers with Lager yeast tend to take longer to ferment. I would leave it for about 10 days before taking your first hydrometer reading. I leave mine untill i get three days in a row that have three of the same hydrometer readings. Then it will be safe to bottle in glass. just make sure you dont put to much sugar in the bottles. Or you can use Carbo drops.


----------



## Pton

Hi!

After six days fermentation has stoped. Is it ok? Should I open fermenter and mix beer with oxigen? Is this the reason, fermentation had stoped, because I haven't add oxigen since fermentation started?


----------



## AussieJosh

Pton
how do you know it has stoped? do you have two hydrometer readings the same that were taken 24hrs apart??? if yes..........take the air lock out and just use the tap to fill your bottles.


----------



## Pton

I noticed, fermentation has slow down ofter 6 says. At 6th day of fermentation, density was 1012. It is 13th day of fermentation now. Density of bear is 1008. What is the density when fermnentation stops? Is it Ok, fermentation take 13 days and still no end?


----------



## Wisey

1.008? I would start bottling. I got a brew that doesnt want to move off 1.018


----------



## ah_glenno

Pton said:


> Hi!
> 
> After six days fermentation has stoped. Is it ok? Should I open fermenter and mix beer with oxigen? Is this the reason, fermentation had stoped, because I haven't add oxigen since fermentation started?



Once fermentation has started you dont want any more air getting in there, so no dont open the lid


----------



## krusty_oz

Wisey said:


> 1.008? I would start bottling. I got a brew that doesnt want to move off 1.018



Check it again tomorrow morning and if its still 1.008 then you can bottle. If you can't tomorrow, do it on the weekend, it will be fine if you don't open it up.

Just be careful not to suck airlock water into the brew when taking your sample (you may have to ease the airlock out a little to prevent it)


----------



## Pton

Yesterday I have finished with bottling. The density was 1007. Now I start with second fermentation to create CO2 bulbs in beer. What is the best temperature for second fermentation and how many days it takes? What next? What is the best temperature for aging/curing beer? 10'C or more?
Thanks for answers!


----------



## manticle

Secondary is usually best before fermentation is complete as some of the yeast processes occur simultaneously. Secondary allows the yeast to clean and the beer to mature while fermentation is still happening. At 1007, I doubt you have much fermentation going on. What you have now is 'secondary' not secondary 'fermentation'.

If you want to assist the beer further I reckon (and others may have better ideas) that cold conditioning for a week will help make clear beer that tastes clean.

Otherwise just bottle

What did you hope to achieve with the transfer?


----------



## AussieJosh

I would have not transferd. I would of just bottled and left for 12 weeks.


----------



## Pton

The density after 18 days was 1007. I pour beer in bottles, add sugar and stoppered bottles.
Now I'm wondering, what is the best temperature, that beer create CO2 bubbles? How many time does it take?


----------



## manticle

If sitting at around 18 degrees celcius it should take between 7 and 14 days. Leaving the beer at least 14 days will help round it out. Longer is often better depending on style. If colder it may take longer to carbonate although lagers do well with colder, longer storage.


----------



## AussieJosh

The coopers International european Lager Kit can says to leave it in the bottles for at least 12 weeks before opening. I think this is because of the type of lager yeast they have used. Where with there other beers they say you can try one after 2 weeks. I would not be trying there european lager after 2 weeks! i think it would still smell/taste eggy!


----------



## Pton

It is interesting... my european lager doesnt smell eggy. Even during fermentation it didn't smell eggy. At 19'C fermentation takes 18 days. The man who sold me coopers european lager said, alle yeast are enclosed, because of homebrewer circumstances. He said it is difficult to create conditions that original european lager needs. I doubt what he said, so i brew it like a lager. But anyway... is it posible, ale yeast were enclosed?

Now it is second day of carbonization at 20'C. I'll wait for one week and try how much bubbles beer has. Then I'll put beer at 10 degrees and wait at least 3 weeks. IS IT OK? 
(If some bottles will wait for me for 12 weeks, it will be even better)


----------



## manticle

Basic coopers lager kit contains an ale yeast (or a combo of ale and lager). I think European Lager tin contains genuine lager yeast and should be fermented below 14 degrees.

The conditions lager yeasts need are simply lower temperatures. Using temp control or just being outside in Southern Au states in winter is close enough. LHBS guy sounds like he may not be quite aware of what he is talking but it may be brown in colour and sludgy in texture.

Your carbonation method sounds ok. After 1 week at 20 there should be an indication that carbonation is occurring. Allowing the temp to drop and storing for some time will make the beer better.


----------



## AussieJosh

This is from the coopers club members forum.........................


HI ALL, 
JUST SO WE DONT ASK THE SAME QUESTION OVER N OVER......HERE IS THE COOPERS YEASTS STRAINS FOR EACH HOMEBREW KIT,SO YOU CAN WORK OUT WHAT YOU CAN N CANT MIX WHEN IT COMES TOO YEASTS!! 
So to extend the inital listing to include yeast sachet codes if they were packaged today being the 268th day of 2007: 

Original Series:- Ac (26807) 

International Series:- 
Australian Pale Ale - Ac+L (26807 Int) 
Mexican Cerveza - Ac+L (26807 Int) 
European Lager - L (26807 P) 
Canadian Blonde - Ac (26807) 
English Bitter - Ac (26807) 

Brewmaster Selection:- 
Wheat - A (26807 W) 
IPA - Ac (26807 IPA) 
Irish Stout - A (26807 IS) 
Pilsener - L (26807 P) 

Premium Selection:- Ac+L (26807 PS) 

Note: Ac = Coopers ale yeast, A = ale yeast and L = lager yeast 
_________________


----------



## rackemup

I have been meaning to brew a lager for a while now and with the weather being as cold as 3c at night i thought i should make hay while the sun shines so out i went and bought the coopers european lager. reading others posts i decided to modify the kit somewhat and bought some carapils and hallertau hersbrucker from my lhbs. My brew day went something like this- 240g carapils steeped for 60min @ 65c, 800g of light dry malt, 300g dex, 28g haller h for 50min, .5 whirfloc pill, kit yeast and obviously the tin as well, i plan to dry hop with about 20g of hops maybe around week 2-3 in primary? it is fermenting now at around 10c. critique/tips welcome, Cheers :icon_cheers:


----------



## heathos88

Ive just finished brewing one now, took about two weeks, (just about to bottle it). I copied the recipe on the tin (no additional hops or anything) I used brew enhancer 2. i might try a hallertau bag later and compare it. 
Initially i was concerned it wasn't a good batch because it smelt a bit "farty", the smells gone now though. I was also worried that it was too cold, at 16oC (only thing good about sydney winter) instead of 18, but not as concerned after seeing your posts. thanks! I probably cant wait 12 weeks so ill try em out in a month and see how thery are. 
Anything's better than a brigalow lager at 30oC for me!

btw I just bought a "finishing hops tablet" (aroma hops) at big W, weird!? I might try it it on a brew ive done before to see if it works.

cheers!


----------



## rackemup

Heathos said:


> Ive just finished brewing one now, took about two weeks, (just about to bottle it). I copied the recipe on the tin (no additional hops or anything) I used brew enhancer 2. i might try a hallertau bag later and compare it.
> Initially i was concerned it wasn't a good batch because it smelt a bit "farty", the smells gone now though. I was also worried that it was too cold, at 16oC (only thing good about sydney winter) instead of 18, but not as concerned after seeing your posts. thanks! I probably cant wait 12 weeks so ill try em out in a month and see how thery are.
> Anything's better than a brigalow lager at 30oC for me!
> 
> btw I just bought a "finishing hops tablet" (aroma hops) at big W, weird!? I might try it it on a brew ive done before to see if it works.
> 
> cheers!



I think Lagers are meant to smell farty/eggy while fermenting, this is a good sign! I have seen those tablets in k-mart before, im a little skeptical as to their freshness.(as with everything in large retail outlets!)


----------



## manticle

I used to use those finishing hop tablets. May have helped with head formation and retention but has bugger all effect on flavour or aroma. Better off going to an HBS and buying hop pellets.

Freshness has little to do with them - they are essentially a brigalow gimmick.


----------



## rackemup

manticle said:


> I used to use those finishing hop tablets. May have helped with head formation and retention but has bugger all effect on flavour or aroma. Better off going to an HBS and buying hop pellets.
> 
> Freshness has little to do with them - they are essentially a brigalow gimmick.




What are your ideas as to the reason behind the lack of flavour and aroma? shitty hops? oxidation perhaps?


----------



## manticle

[quote name='Rack'EmUp' post='499833' date='Aug 1 2009, 10:00 PM']What are your ideas as to the reason behind the lack of flavour and aroma? shitty hops? oxidation perhaps?[/quote]

I don't think they're designed to add either. There's no hop type listed (at least not on the brigalow finishing hops tabs which are the only ones I've seen). The packet mentions hop oils leading to added head retention etc so I think it's just generic oils in tablet form.


----------



## rackemup

manticle said:


> I don't think they're designed to add either. There's no hop type listed (at least not on the brigalow finishing hops tabs which are the only ones I've seen). The packet mentions hop oils leading to added head retention etc so I think it's just generic oils in tablet form.




Wow, I was under the impression there were actually hops in these finisihing hop tablets :lol:


----------



## manticle

I would assume so but you'd be hard pressed to discern any specifics - eg saaz, hallertauer, PoR etc following the addition of one.


----------



## heathos88

Yeah i suspect the hops tablet its nothing great/gimmick, but seeing as it was $3 i still bought one! hahaha. 
She's (euro lager) all bottled up, i tasted a bit from the tap as i bottle it, not drinkable! i think ill wait it out the 12 weeks.Its also darker than i expected, guess im used to pale ales.
Someone should start up a HBS in the eastern suburbs - am i correct in saying the closest one is northshore sydney?
From a chemical understanding oxidation and heat is the biggest hop life factor, the varieties and amounts/strengths of beta alpha acids has an affect too...Soo glad these coopers cans were invented!
chearz :icon_cheers:


----------



## rackemup

[quote name='Rack'EmUp' post='499540' date='Aug 1 2009, 12:39 AM']I have been meaning to brew a lager for a while now and with the weather being as cold as 3c at night i thought i should make hay while the sun shines so out i went and bought the coopers european lager. reading others posts i decided to modify the kit somewhat and bought some carapils and hallertau hersbrucker from my lhbs. My brew day went something like this- 240g carapils steeped for 60min @ 65c, 800g of light dry malt, 300g dex, 28g haller h for 50min, .5 whirfloc pill, kit yeast and obviously the tin as well, i plan to dry hop with about 20g of hops maybe around week 2-3 in primary? it is fermenting now at around 10c. critique/tips welcome, Cheers :icon_cheers:[/quote]

Thanks for the feedback guys :icon_cheers:


----------



## GTS350

[quote name='Rack'EmUp' post='499540' date='Aug 1 2009, 12:39 AM'].. My brew day went something like this- 240g carapils steeped for 60min @ 65c, 800g of light dry malt, 300g dex, 28g haller h for 50min, .5 whirfloc pill, kit yeast and obviously the tin as well, i plan to dry hop with about 20g of hops maybe around week 2-3 in primary? it is fermenting now at around 10c. critique/tips welcome, Cheers :icon_cheers:[/quote]
RackEmUp
How did it turn out? did any of it last the whole 12weeks?  

This is my 4th brew and my first go at the Coopers Euro Lager , and being 35deg here in Sydney, I thought it a great way to test the fermenter fridge (first mistake).
My brew day went something like this :

- (for a 60 litre fermenter) - 
3 x 1.7kg cans of Coopers Euro Lager , 
3 x 1kg of Coopers Brew Enhancer 2 , 
500g Vienna grain steeped in a pot for 20mins-ish at an average of 70deg, 
50g of Summer Saaz 4.7%AA hop pellets - rehydrated for 10 mins in one of the empty cans with cooled boiled water, then tossed the whole lot in.
24g Weihenstephan yeast.

I topped the 60l fermenter up with filtered tap water, the water temp here today was 27 deg!
I was going to use the kit supplied yeast, but I wasn't monitoring the tap water temp, and couldn't work out why the 35deg wort wasn't cooling down. 2 hours later the fridge (with air temp 18deg) had only cooled the 60litre wort to 31deg, and by now the kit yeast was frothing ready to go.

So I left the wort another 2 hours , and decided to give the Weihenstephan a go.

I was running out of patience and available spare time (brew temp lost the battle to kids and dinner time).
Finally pitched at 27deg and a gravity 1054. :blink: The fridge will have to go all night, and I'll panic about it in the morning when the krausen slams open the fridge door! (like Kramer from Seinfeld).

The priceless moment was 5yo daughter saying: "Mmmm... Daddy... It smells like Vegemite in your shed!"


----------



## rackemup

GTS350 said:


> RackEmUp
> How did it turn out? did any of it last the whole 12weeks?
> 
> This is my 4th brew and my first go at the Coopers Euro Lager , and being 35deg here in Sydney, I thought it a great way to test the fermenter fridge (first mistake).
> My brew day went something like this :
> 
> - (for a 60 litre fermenter) -
> 3 x 1.7kg cans of Coopers Euro Lager ,
> 3 x 1kg of Coopers Brew Enhancer 2 ,
> 500g Vienna grain steeped in a pot for 20mins-ish at an average of 70deg,
> 50g of Summer Saaz 4.7%AA hop pellets - rehydrated for 10 mins in one of the empty cans with cooled boiled water, then tossed the whole lot in.
> 24g Weihenstephan yeast.
> 
> I topped the 60l fermenter up with filtered tap water, the water temp here today was 27 deg!
> I was going to use the kit supplied yeast, but I wasn't monitoring the tap water temp, and couldn't work out why the 35deg wort wasn't cooling down. 2 hours later the fridge (with air temp 18deg) had only cooled the 60litre wort to 31deg, and by now the kit yeast was frothing ready to go.
> 
> So I left the wort another 2 hours , and decided to give the Weihenstephan a go.
> 
> I was running out of patience and available spare time (brew temp lost the battle to kids and dinner time).
> Finally pitched at 27deg and a gravity 1054. :blink: The fridge will have to go all night, and I'll panic about it in the morning when the krausen slams open the fridge door! (like Kramer from Seinfeld).
> 
> The priceless moment was 5yo daughter saying: "Mmmm... Daddy... It smells like Vegemite in your shed!"




Hi mate, Just cracked the first one a few days ago and i think it turned out really nice! the hallertau hersbrucker hops really work with this one, the only complaint i have is that it turned out a bit darker than i had hoped, not sure if this is because i added some crystal malts and used a fair bit of ldm or just because its a tin...it also has alot more body than a lager should so its kind of like an ale/lager (I might use less malt and more dex next time) I think your recipe sounds really nice, i would say that coopers Be2 is perfect for lagers and its what i will be using next winter.
Let me know how it turns out, Cheers!


----------



## Florian

Hi Guys,

am just about to start my very first brew on the weekend. Got a tin of coopers european lager and the coopers brew enhancer 2. Today I went to the local brew shop and also got recommended 500g of light dry malt and a teabag of hallertau (put in a cup of boiling water and soak 10 min).

What do you guys think, should this be alright? Could I adjust anything to get a better result? My preferences at the moment are becks and lwenbru.

Also, once I got home I noticed that the hallertau had expired in june 2009. Can I still use it, or better hands off?

I would appreciate your input.
Thanks
Florian


----------



## RobboMC

GTS350 said:


> RackEmUp
> How did it turn out? did any of it last the whole 12weeks?
> 
> This is my 4th brew and my first go at the Coopers Euro Lager , and being 35deg here in Sydney, I thought it a great way to test the fermenter fridge (first mistake).
> 2 hours later the fridge (with air temp 18deg) had only cooled the 60litre wort to 31deg, and by now the kit yeast was frothing ready to go.
> 
> So I left the wort another 2 hours , and decided to give the Weihenstephan a go.
> 
> I was running out of patience and available spare time (brew temp lost the battle to kids and dinner time).
> Finally pitched at 27deg and a gravity 1054. :blink: The fridge will have to go all night, and I'll panic about it in the morning when the krausen slams open the fridge door! (like Kramer from Seinfeld).




I see you have learned this lesson the hard way.
Just because one has a brew fridge doesn't mean you need to fight nature so fiercely.
In that hot week on Nov I reckon it was more like 47 deg in my garage where my brew fridge lives, making it
almost impossible to brew a 10-12 deg C. Some hot days I can't even GET from the house to my brew garage as it's too hot to leave the air-conditioned house.

Even with a fridge it's a heck of a lot easier to still brew ales in summer and lagers in winter. When it's 16 deg ambient you can open your brew fridge to see what's going on without having the temp start to climb within the first 3 seconds. And when it's over 40 deg ambient don't bother brewing at all, just have a swim and chill yourself out.

This isn't the first brew that's been saved by the brew fridge. Particularly when I started partials I've had quite a few brews end up at 30 plus and spend the night in the fridge before I pitched the yeast, sort of no-chiller extract brewing in a way. Never had any disasters and just kept the airlock on to keep any bugs out.


----------



## aaronpetersen

I've been given a tin of Euro lager and thought I would use it in a partial. Anybody got any good ideas for a partial recipe? What style of lager is it best suited to? I've got some Wyeast 2001 Urquell yeast that I could use if that suits, although I'm happy to use a different yeast if needed. I think I read in this thread that they use Saaz hops in the kit. If that's correct then I'd prefer to stick with Saaz for flavour and aroma. Thanks in advance.


----------



## GTS350

AaronP said:


> I've been given a tin of Euro lager and thought I would use it in a partial. Anybody got any good ideas for a partial recipe? What style of lager is it best suited to? I've got some Wyeast 2001 Urquell yeast that I could use if that suits, although I'm happy to use a different yeast if needed. I think I read in this thread that they use Saaz hops in the kit. If that's correct then I'd prefer to stick with Saaz for flavour and aroma. Thanks in advance.




Hi Aaron, 

If you can control the ferment temp, then go with the WY2001, it is a great match, during the ferment period I always smell some bitter acidity something, but that seems to be gone after I crash chill.
Saaz or Hallertau are both perfect for hop-tea additives. Also, Vienna or Carapils help keep that euro-lager "head".

The Coopers Euro Lager has been my "weapon of choice" to keep the regular (non-homebrewer, mega-swill) visitors satisfied.
Ive also busted some AllGrain mates sneaking back to the fridge for 3rd+4th helpings 

Cheers, 
Richie


----------



## eddy401

hey i know this post was a loooooong time ago, but to try save starting a new thread - im thinking of doing this one, (going on uni hollidays for 7 weeks so will be able to lager it as opposed to the usual drink it in a month strategy  ), i have armarillo hops and cascade - are either of these appropriate to add to this kit in your opinion? (i dont want anything too hoppy, already got a very hoppy ale in the other fermenter)

thanks!

t
:icon_cheers: 



boingk said:


> I've made this up with 500g LDME, 250g Dextrose and 250g Maltodextrin as well as 12g Hallertau @ 20min and the same dry hopped into primary...couldn't be assed racking this one. After 6 weeks its come out alright, body is a bit thinish, but quite drinkable. I used the stock yeast at around 17-19'C and its come out quite clean. Has decent bitterness and the flavour profile really isn't bad for the money, although its a bit thin and not too complex...but it was the kit yeast with minor mods after all. There is sweet jack all aroma however - dry-hopping in secondary is the way to go with this one.
> 
> Personally I'd be adding 1kg LDME or 1.5kf liquid light malt extract as well as at least 10g flavour hops at 20 minutes and at least another 10g hopping dry in secondary. 150g Munich specialty grain wouldn't go too far astray with this one either. I don't think that mix would dissapoint anyone for the money.
> 
> Cheers - boingk
> 
> EDIT: Forgot to add - this holds quite a decent head; I don't pour mine hard at all or I end up with a 50:50 beer/head mix! Not the closest head around but it'll stay there for a while as well as looking impressive initially.


----------



## Parrothead

twardo said:


> hey i know this post was a loooooong time ago, but to try save starting a new thread - im thinking of doing this one, (going on uni hollidays for 7 weeks so will be able to lager it as opposed to the usual drink it in a month strategy  ), i have armarillo hops and cascade - are either of these appropriate to add to this kit in your opinion? (i dont want anything too hoppy, already got a very hoppy ale in the other fermenter)
> 
> thanks!
> 
> t
> :icon_cheers:




Well, depends - neither Amarillo nor Cascade are usually found in the type of beer this kit represents [a light European lager]. Cascades and Amarillo are normally found in pale ales for the most part. That said, the beauty of home brewing is that you can do whatever your heart desires! B) If you don't want anything too hoppy, as you said, you could either use a small amount of added hops, or none at all. When I made this kit, I found it pretty bland for my tastes, so the next time I'm going to add some Saaz or Hallertau.


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## Swordsman

twardo said:


> hey i know this post was a loooooong time ago, but to try save starting a new thread - im thinking of doing this one, (going on uni hollidays for 7 weeks so will be able to lager it as opposed to the usual drink it in a month strategy  ), i have armarillo hops and cascade - are either of these appropriate to add to this kit in your opinion? (i dont want anything too hoppy, already got a very hoppy ale in the other fermenter)
> 
> thanks!
> 
> t
> :icon_cheers:




A couple of brews ago i put down a 'dortmunder style' euro lager (not based off a coopers euro can but a tcb wal's lager...) and that was an extract primarily based around hallertaur. However i did sneak a bit of cascade (only 5-10 grams or something) into it early in the boil because i always have tonnes of cascade around (fav hop big pale ale drinker...) and was using it for a bit of bittering and flavour. Cascade is used in lager's (not european ones mind) so it can be done but it is a pretty powerful hop (esp aroma) so you need to be careful if you want to use it with a traditional european noble hop. TO be honest i don't really pick up the cascade in the final beer but worth the effort to test it out.....maybe on the burp back you can get a bit of non-hallertaur flavour so you never know....

THis is all based on my experience so no gurantees but like parrothead says experimenting is half the fun (drinking the other half...). 

Oh and i'd have to say watch the ammarillo. I'm a big ammarillo fan but i'd say it would be over the top for a lager of just about any time....i bittered and dry hopped a wacky americanised english bitter with it (wierd i know) and the aroma was crazy...even after a few months in the bottle the passionfruit was off the chart! Can't see that working in a lager IMO....


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## MT79

hello all,

well this is my first adventure into home brewing.

ive started out with the coopers euro lager, start safely and perhapd get more adventurous with experience.

anyway i put down 2 brews at the same time.

one brew i ended up with the cling wrap - fish heater - an idea from the blue bible - understanding beer making by grant sampson and tried the other the more traditional style (since abandoned that as need to take lid off to see whats happening).

The first brew with the heater was set too 22degrees, as mentioned on the guide with the can - gave it 13 days and have bottled it.

The second brew not far behind but has been brewing at far cooler temperatures - around the 14-16 degrees.

i do plan on giving these close to the 12 weeks required in the bottle. May try them at 4-6-8-10 weeks just to check up on taste.

good thing is ive got enough bottles for 12 cartons!!


ive heard another idea for euro lager is - 

2 cans
both yeasts
21 degrees
low temperature

thoughts on the above?

does anyone else go with the cling wrap?


has anyone done the stella, grolsch, heineken style kits you can get and how good are the results?

thanks


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## MT79

i also saw somewhere and not sure if it was here, but a table with a guide to how long fermentation takes at a certain temperature.

has anyone else seen this and used this as a guide


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## yum beer

eggy79 said:


> i also saw somewhere and not sure if it was here, but a table with a guide to how long fermentation takes at a certain temperature.
> 
> has anyone else seen this and used this as a guide




Eggy dont worry about how long fermentation should take...it takes as long as it takes...check with hydro every couple of days.
Try and keep your temp a bit lower for the euro kit..12-14c if you can..it uses a true lager yeast. 22c will throw some unwanted flavours with that yeast.

In my experience an ale at 18c will ferment in 3-7 days and a lager at 13c will take about 15-21 days. But they will vary depending on
ingredients, yeast viabilty and temp.

Just use a little patience and trust your hydro.

other than that the euro kit with 500gm Dry Malt and 1kg brew enhancer work out quite nice. A small hop addition wont hurt.


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## bignath

G'day eggy, welcome to the forum mate.

You need to do a bit of reading to undestand some things to enable you to make significantly better beer.

I've added some highlights on general thoughts to your quoted post below.



eggy79 said:


> hello all,
> 
> well this is my first adventure into home brewing.
> 
> ive started out with the coopers euro lager, start safely and perhapd get more adventurous with experience.
> The coopers euro lager is actually not a safe beer to make at all. It will require very good temp control as it comes packed with a true lager yeast. It will work better at around 12deg or so. The coopers yeasts are fairly hardy though so a little either way will still probably go ok, just telling you this about lager yeasts so that when you move away from kit yeasts into more specific and better quality yeasts, it's important info to know about the temp.
> 
> one brew i ended up with the cling wrap - fish heater - an idea from the blue bible - understanding beer making by grant sampson and tried the other the more traditional style (since abandoned that as need to take lid off to see whats happening).
> Glad wrap is a great idea for brewing as it allows you to get a much clearer idea of how the fermentation is progressing. There are tonnes of brewers here that use glad wrap - im also one of them. Don't take the lid of your fermenter unless you are racking (transferring) to another vessel, bottling (or kegging). Whilst fermentation will leave a blanket of CO2 on top of your fermenting beer, it still presents a potential risk of infection - however small, it's not something that i'd do because it's simply not necessary to remove the lid - particularly if you use glad wrap.
> 
> The first brew with the heater was set too 22degrees, as mentioned on the guide with the can - gave it 13 days and have bottled it.[/color]
> The best thing you will do for your brewing if using coopers cans, is forgot all about the destructions on the can and listen to the advice you get from this forum. Don't forget that coopers also make and sell a hell of a lot of commercially market beers. Their best interests is in making you buy it, not making you brew it.[/color]
> The second brew not far behind but has been brewing at far cooler temperatures - around the 14-16 degrees.
> 
> i do plan on giving these close to the 12 weeks required in the bottle. May try them at 4-6-8-10 weeks just to check up on taste.
> 
> good thing is ive got enough bottles for 12 cartons!!
> 
> 
> ive heard another idea for euro lager is -
> 
> 2 cans
> both yeasts
> 21 degrees
> low temperature
> 
> thoughts on the above?
> Yeah, it won't taste good. As per advice above re: temps.
> 
> [/color]
> does anyone else go with the cling wrap?
> Yep, heaps o' people.
> 
> has anyone done the stella, grolsch, heineken style kits you can get and how good are the results?
> 
> thanks




As i said, do a bit or reading on things like temperature, yeast types, what yeasts come with what cans (as it's quite rare that a "lager" can will contain a true lager yeast.) Most yeast supplied with the coopers tins are a combo yeast with both ale and lager characteristics, but they work better at ale ferment temps.

Also the obvious stuff like sanitation, although i haven't gone into it as it wasn't a part of your question - assuming you know how to keep your stuff "clean".

follow the advice on this forum mate and that kit will make a decent beer.

Cheers 

Nath


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## MT79

Thanks lads for your input.

I will in future find out here exactly what i need to be doing and not follow the coopers instructions.

Sanitation i have under control.

it sounds as though my second batch which is fermenting around the 14-16 degree mark should be better then the first!

all trial and error, im not expecting fantastic results first up, but am expecting to produce something that can be drunk!


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## Diggs

:icon_cheers: Hey guys, I'm pretty new to brewing. Done a few but yet to make one that I am PROUD of. Have just put this one down with some help from LHBS (chilling in espy with ice, managing to keep it up 20).

1 x Coopers Euro Lager
1 x Morgans Brew Enhancer
Saf lager s23 yeast
Hallertau hops - 10 mins steep

Tell you what it's like in about 14 weeks or so


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## keifer33

Diggs said:


> :icon_cheers: Hey guys, I'm pretty new to brewing. Done a few but yet to make one that I am PROUD of. Have just put this one down with some help from LHBS (chilling in espy with ice, managing to keep it up 20).
> 
> 1 x Coopers Euro Lager
> 1 x Morgans Brew Enhancer
> Saf lager s23 yeast
> Hallertau hops - 10 mins steep
> 
> Tell you what it's like in about 14 weeks or so



If your using a true lager yeast (as you are) then 20c just aint going to cut it. 



Fermentis said:


> Fermentation temperature: Recommended fermentation temperature: 9C – 15C, ideally 12C.



If you can drop it down a bit more it will end up being a much better brew than at 20c. Also for more info on the yeast check out the manufacturers info.

http://www.fermentis.com/fo/pdf/HB/EN/Saflager_S-23_HB.pdf

In the future if you dont have temp control then stick to using Ale yeasts such as US05 and Nottingham to name a few. They work alot better around 18-20c and getting kinda fake lagerish at around 16


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## Diggs

Thanks for the advice, for my next batch I will have a fridge and controller so will be able to get down low for the lager yeast, to be honest I just got a bit excited and put this one on.

PS just looking through the yeast info you added Kiefer, do you use that method to pitch?? I have just used the normal, straight into tub method. It's chugging along quite nicely now though.


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## yum beer

It will chugg along at 20c, but not nicely,

the yeast is in there making nasty flavours that you will never get rid of.

The coopers Euro makes a nice enough drop but you have gotta be low teens temp wise, 11-14c.
Once you have temp control try just the kit with 1kg LDM or a can of Light extract. 2 months in bottle, yummy.


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## enuun

and ventilate your brew area
u gonna have rotten eggs perfume coming at you pretty soon
jus give it time to clear. its normal btw


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## Diggs

Using the esky and milk bottles full of frozen water I've been able to keep the temp under 18 most of the time, more like 16.

Problem is I have to go OS on Saturday now and I don't think it will be fermented out by then. I am away for 16 days.

I will have a brew fridge by then, so I could drop the whole thing in the brew fridge for while I am away, or bottle early. 

Any help would be appreciated guys.


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## muthead

Diggs said:


> Problem is I have to go OS on Saturday now and I don't think it will be fermented out by then. I am away for 16 days.
> 
> or bottle early.



Do this only if you would like to return from your OS trip to a shrapnell filled residence.


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## yum beer

Diggs said:


> Using the esky and milk bottles full of frozen water I've been able to keep the temp under 18 most of the time, more like 16.
> 
> Problem is I have to go OS on Saturday now and I don't think it will be fermented out by then. I am away for 16 days.
> 
> I will have a brew fridge by then, so I could drop the whole thing in the brew fridge for while I am away, or bottle early.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated guys.



brew fridge, simple if you have temp control, if not, put fridge on highest(warmest) setting and stick fermenter in before you go, should be good for
2 day diacetyl rest when you get home, then crank the fridge down for 2-3 weeks before bottling.


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## Diggs

yum beer said:


> brew fridge, simple if you have temp control, if not, put fridge on highest(warmest) setting and stick fermenter in before you go, should be good for
> 2 day diacetyl rest when you get home, then crank the fridge down for 2-3 weeks before bottling.



I have temp controller for fridge, haven't used it yet though.
Will google diacetyl rest and go with that.
Not keen on glass everywhere 
Thanks guys


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## jsm

yum beer said:


> It will chugg along at 20c, but not nicely,
> 
> the yeast is in there making nasty flavours that you will never get rid of.
> 
> The coopers Euro makes a nice enough drop but you have gotta be low teens temp wise, 11-14c.
> Once you have temp control try just the kit with 1kg LDM or a can of Light extract. 2 months in bottle, yummy.




I brewed it 3 weeks ago just under 20c. Tastes ok. Compaired to some beer you buy in my opinion( not a guru on tasting) I would say it is even better than......quite a few and going to drink one now and save rest for later. Is a lager really that much better when kept cold and at a consistant temp? :icon_cheers:


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## ekul

yes, by a magnitude of ten!


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## yum beer

dont drink anything that has not been in the fridge for at least a week.


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## Diggs

yum beer said:


> dont drink anything that has not been in the fridge for at least a week.



As in sitting in a bottle in the fridge or brewed in the fridge??

Why is that?


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## Diggs

Ok, tried this one on the weekend and it's pretty good - my best batch so far. Still got another 4 weeks of conditioning to go.

To me it actually tasted and smelt a lot like a Carlton Draught - probably not great when it's supposed to be more akin to Heineken - good beer never the less.


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## Bribie G

Bacchus Brewing use S-23 at 19 with excellent results. The only time I used this yeast was in my pre-fridge days during the winter and it probably went at 22 and apart from a slight citrussy note, it turned out pretty good with a brew made purely on light dried malt extract and dex with a bit of Hallertau.


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## Darkonnis

I had wondered about this, but settled for an IPA earlier today when i was in the shop. I might just queue one of these up for when i'm done, 11 to 14 degrees may be a bit hard to come by though as i havent really got anywhere that'll consistantly stay at that temperature.


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## bignath

jsm said:


> Is a lager really that much better when kept cold and at a consistant temp?



Particularly if its aussie brewed...vb, CD, west end (shudders)

I like my euro lagers after theyve been in the glass for a minute or so...trumer, urquell, etc


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## hbg

The Heritage Lager from Coopers leaves this for dead.


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## iankaplan

I cooked this one up 2 months ago, bottled 1 month ago, and tasted today. At this stage, I'm very pleased with the result.


Coopers European Lager
25g Hallertau hops
1kg Coopers Brew Enhancer 2
Safbrew S-33 yeast


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