# Question Re New Coopers Kit



## Blazar (28/8/12)

Hi Everyone,

First post here, and what better way to celebrate this moment than by asking a silly newbie question  

I've got one of the new Coopers DIY kits (the one without an airlock). Watching through the DVD it comes with it is suggested that once the "foam" on top has subsided it's wise to remove the Krausen collar and then replace the lid. Now I would have thought that removing the collar and then putting the lid back on would cause the CO2 to escape, is it wise to do this??

P.S. I won't be putting the brew down till Sunday (I promised my kids I wouldn't touch the kit other than watching the DVD until Father's Day  ). For starters I'll simply be using the supplied can of Coopers Lager and carbonation drops, but will substitute the yeast for a lager yeast and will swap the supplied Brew Enhancer 1 for a kilo of something similar, both of which I've already picked up from my LHBS. I also have a thermostat-controlled fridge so I can ferment at around 10-12 degrees.

Thanks for reading and congrats on running such a knowledge-rich forum.


Cheers,

Ben.


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## JDW81 (28/8/12)

Blazar said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> First post here, and what better way to celebrate this moment than by asking a silly newbie question
> 
> ...




Throw away the krausen collar and just stick with the lid (many here use glad wrap instead of a lid, but stick with the lid for now).

Opening and closing the lid isn't the best idea as it can increase infection risk, but letting CO2 escape doesn't really matter. You're not trying to force it into the beer until you bottle.

If you think fermentation has finished check you gravity, then leave it and check again in 2-3 days. There is no real rush, better to wait an extra week than have bottles exploding.

Welcome to the hobby obsession, and be prepared to start spending far more money on brewing gear than you ever thought possible.

JD.


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## Blazar (28/8/12)

Thanks JD I never really understood what the collar was for. And by not using it that means one less thing to clean as well!!

Another thing I'm unsure of is the secondary fermentation temperature. If the primary ferments at 10-12 degrees do I need to maintain that temperature once I've bottled or can I get away with storing in a cupboard which would obviously be a higher temp.


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## JDW81 (28/8/12)

Blazar said:


> Thanks JD I never really understood what the collar was for. And by not using it that means one less thing to clean as well!!
> 
> Another thing I'm unsure of is the secondary fermentation temperature. If the primary ferments at 10-12 degrees do I need to maintain that temperature once I've bottled or can I get away with storing in a cupboard which would obviously be a higher temp.




In an ideal world you'd bottle condition/store your lagers at fermentation temperatures (I won't go in to lagering here, but it might be worth reading up on if you plan to brew a lot of them). Assuming the cupboard temp doesn't get super high (i.e. above 18-20 degrees) then they'll be fine. I'll hazard a guess that your first brew will be long gone before you've got to worry about long term storage temperatures. What you want to avoid is wild temperature fluctuations. 

For your first few brews worry about getting the basics right (sanitation, controlled fermentation and a steady final gravity). Your first brew is kind of like your first child, you'll love it warts at all. 

Good luck!

JD.


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## yum beer (28/8/12)

Ditch the collar, your kit brew wont get anywhere near a big enough krausen to be a worry,
then first chance you get, find yourself a 'normal' fermenter...see Big Green Shed, water drums and cubes.......and ditch the stupid coopers fermenter...
**** knows why they ever changed design.


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## JakeSm (28/8/12)

yum beer said:


> Ditch the collar, your kit brew wont get anywhere near a big enough krausen to be a worry,
> then first chance you get, find yourself a 'normal' fermenter...see Big Green Shed, water drums and cubes.......and ditch the stupid coopers fermenter...
> **** knows why they ever changed design.



+ 1 for ditching the new design coopers fermenter, i have never understood what they were going for, or whats wrong with the normal style fermenters.
one thing i would say to make your first beer even better, would be to add a bag of hops, any type really just so you know how to get into using them, as they dont come with the kit and the instuctions dont call for them. the more you add/experiment with a kit brew the better it should taste. 

cheers jake


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## Blazar (29/8/12)

Thanks Jake, I should have mentioned I've picked up a bag of Hallertau hops from the LHBS to use. If I ditch the collar and just use the lid do I need to drill a hole or two in it or just screw it on lightly?

As an extra surprise my wife just got me a can of Coopers APA!! Think I'll hold off putting that one down till after a practice run.


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## woodwormm (29/8/12)

though the APA will ferment quicker for your first brew = drinking sooner  

also i find ales a little more forgiving to brew.. as much as i like lagers. i don't bother with them anymore, i go for crisp clean ales (it is possible) so that my fermenting fridge is only tied up 2-3 weeks per brew rather than 3-4-5....


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## Lecterfan (29/8/12)

JakeSm said:


> + 1 for ditching the new design coopers fermenter, i have never understood what they were going for, or whats wrong with the normal style fermenters.
> one thing i would say to make your first beer even better, would be to add a bag of hops, any type really just so you know how to get into using them, as they dont come with the kit and the instuctions dont call for them. the more you add/experiment with a kit brew the better it should taste.
> 
> cheers jake




I would humbly suggest that the OP do a teeny bit of reading on beer types (and the matching hop varieties) before throwing in a random bag of hops in order to understand the process. 20 gms of chinook or columbus (for example) in the 'wrong' beer (which, granted, is subjective) can lead to unexpected and often undesirable results. 

As far as process goes, the old mantra of cleaning/sanitation, ferment temps and yeast handling are far more important in the long run (should the kit-based brewing give way to a deeper urge to brew). The art to adding hops is knowing which ones and when.

Just my 2c and I'm not stirring, just offering another perspective.


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## wbosher (29/8/12)

From a noob to a noob, I would suggest sticking to the basics and make the fist one with no additions. If that turns out ok, then maybe throw some hops into your 2nd brew. That's what I did.

There is heaps of information here and plenty of people willing to help in that department. There is also a really good spreadsheet on here somewhere with information on what hops to use for different styles of beer.

I'll see if I can dig it up or find the link.


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## JakeSm (29/8/12)

Yeah you are totally right there mate, there are more important things to worry about first. Though with him looking around this site before he actually put on his first brew, there alot of pointers we can give him to make his first a better drink.
I dont think he can really stuff up the addition of hops in a 10min steep tea bag. I would be more worried about boiling them.

I am just trying to make his first beer better as this is where alot of people give up after doing it. They may think its not that good at all and couldnt be bothered doing another one. Just trying to keep him interested, 

Thanks for your perspective, im sure he likes all the feedback he can get before he starts.

Cheers jake.


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## wbosher (29/8/12)

JakeSm said:


> Yeah you are totally right there mate, there are more important things to worry about first. Though with him looking around this site before he actually put on his first brew, there alot of pointers we can give him to make his first a better drink.
> I dont think he can really stuff up the addition of hops in a 10min steep tea bag. I would be more worried about boiling them.
> 
> I am just trying to make his first beer better as this is where alot of people give up after doing it. They may think its not that good at all and couldnt be bothered doing another one. Just trying to keep him interested,
> ...



Yeah Jake, your right about the teabag..really hard to mess that one up.  I just did the Coopers Lager (my 2nd brew), it's still fermenting, about 3 days in. I got one of those "finishing hops" teabags, just steep in boiling water - off the heat - for 10 minutes and throw the whole lot into the FV...that simple. It's more expensive that buying pellets but a good way to start with hops IMO.

I wouldn't worry about changing the yeast, just use the one in the kit. Maintaining a 18 - mid 20s temp range is probably much easier than the low temp required for a real lager, one less thing to worry about, and one less thing to go wrong.

Like I said, I'm a noob too, so this is just my 2c worth.


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## Blazar (29/8/12)

You blokes are all spot on, thanks very much. The hops were suggested to me by the LBHS along with the different yeast so I'm happy to try those together with the Coopers Lager first off. All going smoothly with the first brew I'll throw down the Cooper's APA (which is one of my favourite commercial beers) soon after bottling my first brew.

Plenty of baby steps for me to take but it will be worth it.


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## bum (29/8/12)

Blazar said:


> I'll throw down the Cooper's APA (which is one of my favourite commercial beers)


A lot of people really like that kit but few say it is the same as CPA. It was nothing like it when I brewed it - that might be me though.


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## mosto (29/8/12)

yum beer said:


> Ditch the collar, your kit brew wont get anywhere near a big enough krausen to be a worry,
> then first chance you get, find yourself a 'normal' fermenter...see Big Green Shed, water drums and cubes.......and ditch the stupid coopers fermenter...
> **** knows why they ever changed design.



Agree with getting a more suitable fermentation vessel, but don't ditch the Coopers one, it makes a perfect bulk priming vessel.


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## Lecterfan (29/8/12)

The _process_ of adding hops may be hard to stuff up, but adding Pride of Ringwood instead of East Kent Goldings to your red ale, or chinook instead of saaz to your pilsner is _easy_ to stuff up if you think that hops is hops is hops. In either of those examples (or millions of other combinations) it might be better just to use the kit on it's own and concentrate on ferment temp and yeast health/handling.

Baby steps, good beer. :icon_chickcheers:


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## wbosher (29/8/12)

wbosher said:


> From a noob to a noob, I would suggest sticking to the basics and make the fist one with no additions. If that turns out ok, then maybe throw some hops into your 2nd brew. That's what I did.
> 
> There is heaps of information here and plenty of people willing to help in that department. There is also a really good spreadsheet on here somewhere with information on what hops to use for different styles of beer.
> 
> I'll see if I can dig it up or find the link.



Go here - http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=29655


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## Wal05 (29/8/12)

For my 2 bob's worth, being fairly new to this hobby...ahh...obsession B) I have only been going for 13 months and currently have brew number 29 and 30 in my fermentors but it has only really been in the last 10 brews or so that I started mucking around with hops and spec grains. Prior to that I was really just trying out different styles of beers and working out which ones I preffered.

My first few brews were lucky to last through proper carbonation let alone any bottle conditioning.  Now days though I have built up a bit of a stash (about 150 bottles) of the beers I like and all with extra bits added, some that I have made more than once and others that are a bit experimental.

So, Blazar, it is really up to you how you approach your brewing but be warned, you will spend more money on bits and pieces and you will sometimes spend more time on it than will be appreciated by SWMBO...!!!!   

Happy brewing


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## wbosher (29/8/12)

Wal05 said:


> be warned, you will spend more money on bits and pieces and you will sometimes spend more time on it than will be appreciated by SWMBO...!!!!



:lol: Ain't that the truth :lol:


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## Blazar (29/8/12)

wbosher said:


> :lol: Ain't that the truth :lol:



Potentially not a bad thing though!!


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## glenwal (29/8/12)

wbosher said:


> I wouldn't worry about changing the yeast, just use the one in the kit.



Using a different/better yeast is one of the eaisest ways to improve your beer. The problems with the ones that come with the kit are 

a) Not enough yeast
b ) How long have they been under the lid
c) The conditions they have been kept in

So its not that there is anything wrong with the actual yeast strain, its just about pitching the correct amount of viable yeast, and picking up a pack of US-05 is a simple way to help improve that.


Though moving to a lager yeast probably wouldn't be my first pick, though if you really want to use one make sure you pitch 2 packs.


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## JakeSm (29/8/12)

bum said:


> A lot of people really like that kit but few say it is the same as CPA. It was nothing like it when I brewed it - that might be me though.


This kit will not be like the coopers australian pale ale as coopers have not yet figured out how to dry their commercial yeast for homebrewing as their commercial yeast is much different. You can reculture the bottle yeast but that gets pretty complex for the newer brewers.

Just make it as an australian pale ale and try not to think of it as a coopers clone.


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## glenwal (29/8/12)

JakeSm said:


> coopers have not yet figured out how to dry their commercial yeast for homebrewing as their commercial yeast is much different


So we'll just have to wait until liquid yeasts become available for home brewing, then maybe they can package it for us? <_<


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## bum (29/8/12)

We'll also have to wait for them to actually produce their own homebrew yeasts...


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## soundawake (29/8/12)

Glen W said:


> So we'll just have to wait until liquid yeasts become available for home brewing, then maybe they can package it for us? <_<



Already have. The Whitelabs WLP009 liquid yeast is the Coopers yeast.

Unfortunately its only available two months of the year - March and April.


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## fletcher (29/8/12)

is that the yeast for all their beers or specific ones?

EDIT: nevermind...found the answer!


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## ash2 (29/8/12)

Blazar said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> First post here, and what better way to celebrate this moment than by asking a silly newbie question
> 
> ...



I was at a loss when i brought a DIY KIT like you,i have 2 old school FV'S which i only use gladwrap on,so when i bought the Coops Diy i sent Paul at Coops an email to see what his response would be about the collar.Don't have to use it unless you are brewing something that has a lot of head{i don't get much head these days so i don't use it.


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## yum beer (29/8/12)

Hey Blazar,

This be my suggestion for a new brewer given the two kits you have there:

Lager, kit yeast plus your lager yeast from LHBS, ferment at 14-16c, dont add the Hallertau, the coopers lager is an Aussie lager with POR 
and IMO the european hop will not work. The lager kit with 1kg Coopers Brew Enhancer 2 plus 500gm Light Dry Malt at above temps, 3 months in bottle,
very drinkable smooth lager...ish.
APA with 1.5kg LDM with kit yeast at 21c, will push some fruity banana but will be good drinking for early attempts.

Get some Coopers Euro lager, 1kg LDM, your hallertau steeped for 10 mins,kit yeast at 12c...yummo.


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## Blazar (1/9/12)

Hi guys, just thought I'd update by saying I've just put the brew down. I used the Coopers Lager can, the lager yeast from the LHBS and instead of using the Coopers Brew Enhancer 1 I used a substitute once again from the LHBS (which is the equivalent to Brew Enhancer 2 do it will be interesting). OG reading was 1050 and yeast was pitched at approx. 21 degrees. Ferment temp will be more towards 12 degrees once the grudge chills it down.

Thanks once again!!

Edit: I just had a quick look and is it normal for "sludge" to be forming along the bottom already?


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## JakeSm (1/9/12)

Yeah thats normal, its mostly just the sugars falling to the bottom, most yeasts are bottom feeding yeasts so this is a good thing. As the fermentation progresses the "sludge" will reduce.


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## Blazar (1/9/12)

Cheers mate, was starting think I hadn't stirred it properly!!


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## bum (1/9/12)

1050 for a kit & kilo? You probably haven't. No big deal though, the yeasties will find it all.

Bear in mind that as the yeast flocs out you will get more sludge at the bottom of the fermenter, not less. Nothing to worry about.


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## Blazar (1/9/12)

Yeah I thought 1050 seemed rather high. Oh well its my first so I've gotta screw something up haha.


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## bum (1/9/12)

It's not really a huge issue, it only effects you alc calculations. Nothing to worry about really.


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## Blazar (2/9/12)

Just over 24hrs and the SG has dropped to 1040. Another interesting point is the strip thermometer on the fermenter has stayed a constant 10 degrees, whereas my thermostat is set to 13 degrees!!


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## wbosher (3/9/12)

Blazar said:


> Just over 24hrs and the SG has dropped to 1040. Another interesting point is the strip thermometer on the fermenter has stayed a constant 10 degrees, whereas my thermostat is set to 13 degrees!!



I've noticed it too. The stick on ones seem to be ok within a couple of degrees, which is fine by me. 

I keep to around the middle of the temp range I'm after (or a little lower) and it should be good.


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## Blitzer (4/9/12)

I've picked myself up one of the coopers DIY kits, I'm not brewing until this weekend but now I'm a bit worried about the fermenter after reading all this. 

Everyone says to ditch it but I don't understand how one tub can be different from another it's just a plastic barrel, what makes the new coopers design so different & terrible?


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## wbosher (4/9/12)

I've just done a brew with it and it works great. Just make sure you fill it up past the tap first (with water), to make sure it seals well before filling it with beer. :lol: 

If you're doing the lager kit that came with it, you won't need to use the Krausen sleeve. You can if you want though, won't make any difference.

No airlock to worry/complain about either.


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## MelbourneDave (5/9/12)

Blitzer said:


> I've picked myself up one of the coopers DIY kits, I'm not brewing until this weekend but now I'm a bit worried about the fermenter after reading all this.
> 
> Everyone says to ditch it but I don't understand how one tub can be different from another it's just a plastic barrel, what makes the new coopers design so different & terrible?



Don't worry about it, the new coopers fermenters are good. I've never had a problem with it and I love that it's clear so you can see everything swirling round in the wort. Only thing to watch is only remove the tap when it's wet. I found that pulling it out or putting it in when it's dry causes it to drip. I've done about thirty brews on the new coopers design and had no problems. Taps are easy to clean as well, I've never had to replace the tap. I can always clean it properly. I think that alone slowly makes up for the price difference compared to a Bunnings job and when you add in the clear plastic, that puts coopers on top in my opinion.


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## Blazar (30/9/12)

Just a friendly update: this first batch has been bottled for two weeks, I tried one at one week and it was sickly sweet to me, now after another week its well gassed and has dropped a lot of sweetness. Beautiful colour and surprisingly good head retention as well. Biggest lesson leatnf is PATIENCE!!


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