# What Happens If You Drink Infected Beer!?



## SaintRoam (28/6/12)

Hey,

Just out of interest what are the effects of drinking an infected beer? Is the taste really that obvious? Im sure mines fine since I sterilised the HELL out of everything first. I've got my latest batch thats been resting for 3-4 weeks and I noticed its very cloudy and about an inch of sediement per bottle. My last batches have been straight coopers kits and have been pretty clear but this batch I added hops (which broke out of the bag and probably didnt help..) and steeped pilsner grain. Just curious have super cloudy beers even been okay and tasty? Bit hestitate to try before my wedding incase I get a stomach infection or herpes from these beers.... <_< 

Cheers,

Luke


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## .DJ. (28/6/12)

if its infected, you'll know it...

does it taste vinegar-y? or just like beer, but only cloudy??


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## seamad (28/6/12)

How did you steep the pils and did you boil. Pils grain requiress mashing.


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## SaintRoam (28/6/12)

.DJ. said:


> if its infected, you'll know it...
> 
> does it taste vinegar-y? or just like beer, but only cloudy??




Havent tasted yet. Too scared! I'll crack one open this weekend I think.


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## .DJ. (28/6/12)

smell?


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## SaintRoam (28/6/12)

seamad said:


> How did you steep the pils and did you boil. Pils grain requiress mashing.



The pils was precracked and I added to boiling water for 12-15 mins I think from memory? then dropped in the cascade hops bag which my lovely finace broke the hops bag when stirring crazy hard in with the wort. Lessons learned I tell yas!


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## SaintRoam (28/6/12)

.DJ. said:


> smell?




Havent smelled either yet sorry. Really need to open one dont I? Maybe aill do it tonight and let ya know. Does infected beer have head? Or does it kill it?


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## seamad (28/6/12)

OK
pils requires mashing, check out john palmer how to brew, free and online for info on mashing.
Some grains (crystal) can be steeped in @70 C water, most need mashing. Check grains in the craftbrewer website for which can be steeped or mashed.

Unlikely that this beer will turn out well.
Cheers
sean


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## SaintRoam (28/6/12)

seamad said:


> OK
> pils requires mashing, check out john palmer how to brew, free and online for info on mashing.
> Some grains (crystal) can be steeped in @70 C water, most need mashing. Check grains in the craftbrewer website for which can be steeped or mashed.
> 
> ...



really? Thats sucks cause everyone here said just boil it?? Oh well back to the drawing board... Ill still run a test.

Heres the comments thread when i was discussing it: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...64789&st=20


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## tiprya (28/6/12)

Nothing that grows in beer is really harmful to humans, due to the alcohol and ph level.

You'll be fine, and you'll know if it's off - there's a big difference between 'kit beer taste' and 'infected'.


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## petesbrew (28/6/12)

SaintRoam said:


> Havent smelled either yet sorry. Really need to open one dont I? Maybe aill do it tonight and let ya know. Does infected beer have head? Or does it kill it?


Well, a low level infection can cause "gushers".
There's a whole bunch of different off flavours and smells, some which are normal characteristics in other beers.
Someone with a bit more knowhow can clarify it for you (bit of a disclaimer for my super-lazy answer).

Honestly if it's really infected, you'll know it. You have a smell, bravely sip it, and spit it out.
I wouldn't bother worrying about cloudyness & sediment.


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## petesbrew (28/6/12)

SaintRoam said:


> really? Thats sucks cause everyone here said just boil it?? Oh well back to the drawing board... Ill still run a test.
> 
> Heres the comments thread when i was discussing it: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...64789&st=20


Pretty much steep it for 30-60min, rinse the grain with more water, THEN boil all the water (you throw the grain away)
Relax dude, and remember it for next time.


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## SaintRoam (28/6/12)

petesbrew said:


> Pretty much steep it for 30-60min, rinse the grain with more water, THEN boil all the water (you throw the grain away)
> Relax dude, and remember it for next time.




Thats what I did! Soaked the grain strained and rinsed it and then boiled the water. But I didnt do any of that mashing stuff?


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## kymba (28/6/12)

yeah you never really answered the questions in your other thread - was it carapils or pilsner?

seeing as though nothing has exploded i'd say you're safe. don't worry about the loose hops, they will settle

let us know how it goes


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## SaintRoam (28/6/12)

kymba said:


> yeah you never really answered the questions in your other thread - was it carapils or pilsner?
> 
> seeing as though nothing has exploded i'd say you're safe. don't worry about the loose hops, they will settle
> 
> let us know how it goes




No explosions thank god, will let you know tonight thanks.

I got this one but I dont remeber it saying Lager/Pilsner just Pilsner I think probs wrong? It sez it sontains 250gr carapils.

http://www.brewerschoice.com.au/online-sho...gerpilsner.html


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## yum beer (28/6/12)

SaintRoam said:


> Thats what I did! Soaked the grain strained and rinsed it and then boiled the water. But I didnt do any of that mashing stuff?




Hey saint, you really want to take a little time to get your head around the terminology being used, it will make it
much easier for people to help you out if they can understand clearly what you are saying.

In a previous post you said you added the grains to boiling water, then later say you soaked the grain, drained and boiled the water.....thats a very big difference.

Also take notes and keep records of what you are brewing with and what you do during your brew day, much it easier to find problems, to give clear
answers to questions and mostly for you to remember what you did when you get it right.



+1 for How to Brew....google search, free download, yes its an older version but will teach you all the finer points you need to understand.

In the meantime, crack a beer and try it out, worst case, you spit it out and water the garden with a few cases and lesson learnt or you may just enjoy a nice home made beer.


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## SaintRoam (28/6/12)

yum beer said:


> Hey saint, you really want to take a little time to get your head around the terminology being used, it will make it
> much easier for people to help you out if they can understand clearly what you are saying.
> 
> In a previous post you said you added the grains to boiling water, then later say you soaked the grain, drained and boiled the water.....thats a very big difference.
> ...




Believe me im trying too! Once you take a step away from kit beers I didnt realise the world of abbrieviations out there!! Slowly getting my head around but that was a rookie error with the boiling post sorry. Ill take notes DEFINITLY for the next batch. Thanks for the hel like usual guys great work!


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## mikec (28/6/12)

I was going to ask why would you try to add anything using Pilsner, but then this



SaintRoam said:


> http://www.brewerschoice.com.au/online-sho...gerpilsner.html


Indicates Carapils.


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## Trippers (28/6/12)

An inch of sediment per bottle? That seems like an awful lot. You should only have a couple of ml of sediment in each bottle. It sounds as though somethings not right. How much yeast did you pitch? Ahhh the fun of making the transition to extract and grain. Dont be discouraged, it all makes sense after you do a few brews


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## SaintRoam (28/6/12)

Trippers said:


> An inch of sediment per bottle? That seems like an awful lot. You should only have a couple of ml of sediment in each bottle. It sounds as though somethings not right. How much yeast did you pitch? Ahhh the fun of making the transition to extract and grain. Dont be discouraged, it all makes sense after you do a few brews




Yeah thats why I was concerned with all the sediement. When I first bottled it was crazy cloudy and it seems its all settled down the bottom, I can post a pic tonight not sure if you will see it though. Just used a US-05 Yeast sachet (something grams?) I got all the stuff from the LHBS so it must be okay together. Ill def keep at it and chances are it'll be fine, my first 3 batches were great! Just as paranoid as a crack user at the mo.


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## bignath (28/6/12)

SaintRoam said:


> I got all the stuff from the LHBS so it must be okay together.



Famous last words indeed! :icon_cheers: 
I wouldn't trust any advice given by my local.

Also +1'ing the whole terminology thing. When i read your initial post, i too thought that you'd thrown some pilsner grain into a pot and boiled it.

It's tricky getting your head around all the brewing language when you go to using grains. I was once a k&k brewer many many years ago, and i thought i had a good handle on what this homebrewing caper was all about. Then i found this bloody site and started reading. I still probably know **** all compared to a lot of brewers.

A picture of a bottle is also a good idea, so when you can get around to posting it, it will most likely help. 1inch certainly sounds scary to me.


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## jameson (28/6/12)

Are the bottles glass? I remember having this problem b4 but when pored there was no more than usual. It just seemed to be like a wall off yeast clinging to the bottom. I would refrigerate for couple of days so it settles as much as possible then try or just chill over night.


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## manticle (28/6/12)

SaintRoam said:


> Hey,
> 
> Just out of interest what are the effects of drinking an infected beer?


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## SaintRoam (28/6/12)

jameson said:


> Are the bottles glass? I remember having this problem b4 but when pored there was no more than usual. It just seemed to be like a wall off yeast clinging to the bottom. I would refrigerate for couple of days so it settles as much as possible then try or just chill over night.




Yup glass bottles, ive left one in the fridge for the last 2 days so we'll see what she looks like tonight. Going to be a [email protected]#TCH to clean all that settlement out!! Definitly rinising bottles after drinking. :blink:


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## SaintRoam (28/6/12)

manticle said:


>



As long as I can still hold my beer glass I guess it dosnt look too bad..


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## cam89brewer (28/6/12)

SaintRoam said:


> As long as I can still hold my beer glass I guess it dosnt look too bad..



Oh I thought that is what happens when you jerk off a toad :lol:


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## kymba (28/6/12)

no stress, they'll be easy to clean as long as you don't let the dregs dry out...pretty sure the smell will remind you to do such long before that happens though

half fill bottle with water, invert, shake like michael j fox, done!


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## manticle (28/6/12)

cambrew said:


> Oh I thought that is what happens when you jerk off a toad :lol:



If you're very good, I'll let you stroke my greenback


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## [email protected] (28/6/12)

manticle said:


> If you're very good, I'll let you stroke my greenback




oooh pick me pick me


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## cam89brewer (28/6/12)

Mmm... so what was this thread about again? someone dropped a toad in their fermenter?


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## DKS (28/6/12)

Mate, fill out your details and let all know where you are. There will be local help for sure. ATM these guys are stirring you a bit but read what they say and read what info links they give you, its all out there and really, these are good blokes, warts and all. (hahhaha).

I was told by my LHBS, many years ago to boil grain. Only did it once and didnt brew for fifteen to twenty years because of it. The info on line now is fantastic. You just have to read it. Good luck and dont be discouraged by initial fails and problems.
Daz


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## bradsbrew (28/6/12)

SaintRoam said:


> The pils was precracked and I added to boiling water for 12-15 mins I think from memory? then dropped in the cascade hops bag which my lovely finace broke the hops bag when stirring crazy hard in with the wort. Lessons learned I tell yas!






SaintRoam said:


> Thats what I did! Soaked the grain strained and rinsed it and then boiled the water. But I didnt do any of that mashing stuff?


These 2 posts have confused me and are very contradicting.



jameson said:


> Are the bottles glass? I remember having this problem b4 but when pored there was no more than usual. It just seemed to be like a wall off yeast clinging to the bottom. I would refrigerate for couple of days so it settles as much as possible then try or just chill over night.



I agree with jameson. Put a bottle or two in the fridge for a few days and see if it settles out more. 
What was the final gravity of the brew? maybe it hadn't finished?



Cheers


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## SaintRoam (28/6/12)

DKS said:


> Mate, fill out your details and let all know where you are. There will be local help for sure. ATM these guys are stirring you a bit but read what they say and read what info links they give you, its all out there and really, these are good blokes, warts and all. (hahhaha).
> 
> I was told by my LHBS, many years ago to boil grain. Only did it once and didnt brew for fifteen to twenty years because of it. The info on line now is fantastic. You just have to read it. Good luck and dont be discouraged by initial fails and problems.
> Daz



Not discouraged at all mate. I like to test the wrong things first to get it right <_< Dosen't help that I don't have too many details on the problem either. Just heading out for 1hr then ill post some pics up and see what it tastes like. Love this forum great place to cram me some knowledge n have a laugh.


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## bum (28/6/12)

Any chance you deliberately stirred up the batch before bottling?


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## SaintRoam (28/6/12)

bradsbrew said:


> These 2 posts have confused me and are very contradicting.
> 
> 
> yeah sorry about that. didn't really type what i meant.. I put the grain in with 2 parts cold and 1 part boiling water (which i heard is close to 68?) for the appropriate time. cant remember the brought that in a pot to the boil for the right time so it should be all good in theory. then dropped in the hops bag and added that with a 1kg booster pack (malt/dex mix) and a canadian blonde kit with US-05 yeast pitched from memory at around 18? beers rested for about 3-4 weeks and I poped one in the fridge for 2 days now so it should be nice and settled.


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## SaintRoam (28/6/12)

bum said:


> Any chance you deliberately stirred up the batch before bottling?



nope. the end did blow off the end of my little bottler since i didn't push it on right. At the most that would only effect the beers that over poured.


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## manticle (28/6/12)

SaintRoam said:


> Hey,
> 
> Just out of interest what are the effects of drinking an infected beer? Is the taste really that obvious? Im sure mines fine since I sterilised the HELL out of everything first. I've got my latest batch thats been resting for 3-4 weeks and I noticed its very cloudy and about an inch of sediement per bottle. My last batches have been straight coopers kits and have been pretty clear but this batch I added hops (which broke out of the bag and probably didnt help..) and steeped pilsner grain. Just curious have super cloudy beers even been okay and tasty? Bit hestitate to try before my wedding incase I get a stomach infection or herpes from these beers.... <_<
> 
> ...



OK.

Keep it simple and start again so we can help you properly.

Outline your exact ingredients and amounts/volumes first. Include yeast strain, amount and date if you can. Did you add yeast dry or soak in water first? If you soaked in water, did you measure the temperature of the water?

Then add your exact step by step mashing/brewing method.

Then outline your fermentation regime (temperature, time etc)

Clear, easy to follow, numbered steps.

I reckon this problem, if it is a problem, will be easy to nut out if you do so and you will learn from it either way.

Give us all the details, in a logical, sequential order from go to stop.


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## bignath (28/6/12)

SaintRoam said:


> yeah sorry about that. didn't really type what i meant.. I put the grain in with 2 parts cold and 1 part boiling water (which i heard is close to 68?) for the appropriate time. cant remember the brought that in a pot to the boil for the right time so it should be all good in theory.



Still sounds like your boiling the grains to me....

agree with manticle..

you need to restart the troubleshooting by giving us detailed info on your process. What went where, for how long, if it was removed, temps etc...

too much contradicting info already.


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## SaintRoam (28/6/12)

Okay Okay. I officially out douched myself.. The beer came out great, perfect almost (compared to kit that is) Awesome body, kinda fruity and it has a killer bitterness after taste though and crazy head. Now im going to shoot myself for A) freaking out and ranting on a forum and B) not writing down the process!! I think Ill just hide now and read some more posts before ever commenting again. Sorry for the waste of time and knowledge all, just need to keep practicing I guess. Anyone here live in Brisvegas? 

O god think I found the problem, this was an old post in my article from Manitcle:

Is it pilsner or carapils grain?

Pilsner grain needs to be mashed, not steeped.

The process you undertake is almost identical and if you can keep it at 65 (or between 60 and 70) for 30-60 minutes, it won't matter BUT

Inside some grains there are starches that yeast can't eat. These need to be mashed, whereby the cracked grain is held at a certain temperature in solution to activate enzymes which will convert the starch to sugars (including maltose). The temperature range here is very important.

Inside other grains like crystal malts or chocolate malts, the enzymatic conversion has already taken place due to the malting process and any available sugar as well as colour and flavour can be accessed by soaking the cracked grain in water. This water can be of any temperature. Hot is good because it's quicker (like a cup of tea) and if you aim for 60-70, it is good practice for mashing but you will get what you need with water that's 10 degrees, 20 degrees or 70 degrees.

Any steeped or mashed liquor needs to be boiled as grain contains various bacteria, including lactobacillus which can infect your beer and make it taste sour. 

--------------------

Would the bitter after taste be the sour taste from not mashing it?? LHBS said nothing about mashing it. said to just put it in 65 degree water strain out the grain and boil the liquid for 1/2 hour. Still tastes kinda good though. Confused?


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## yum beer (28/6/12)

What was the final gravity of the brew? maybe it hadn't finished?



[/quote]

This seems quite likely to me, from the confusing mix of processes nowhere have you metioned how long it brewed for, what OG you started
with and what your FG was.

Also agree with Manticle, sit down and write out a detailed process list, assuming it will be difficult as it seems you have no records of what you did.

EDIT: above post put up while typing this one. looks like beer to me, carry on..


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## SaintRoam (28/6/12)

yum beer said:


> What was the final gravity of the brew? maybe it hadn't finished?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Took and OG and FG but didnt record it  I brewed it for 2 weeks during the cold snap at around 18dg mark and the gravity had settled for 2 days before bottling. Ill write out what did its pretty much the process listed in the previous thread. 

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...64789&st=20


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## bum (28/6/12)

That amount of sediment is fine.

The beer looks normal for k&b. Bit lively for my preference but no obvious issue for me.

Many people perceive kit twang as sourness - any chance that's what you're getting (I know this isn't your first HB)?


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## SaintRoam (29/6/12)

Yeesh guys make beer not war!! Heres step by step of what i remember & please excuse the termo as you can see im no pro:

Ingriedients:
1 can Coopers Canadian Blonde
US05
Cascade Hops bag
250g carapils 
BrewersChoice special blend 1kg mix of Dextrose/Light Dry Malt & I think a hint of Corn for the head retention?

1) put the 250g of Carapils in a bowl with 2 litres of water (2 parts boiling,1 part cold water) bringing it to 65 deg and let it sit for 1/2hr then strained into a pot pouring hot water over the carapils. Discarded the carapils and brought the strained liquid to the boil for 15mins took it off the heat and place the cascade hops tea bag into the hot liquid.

2) Sterilised the S#@T outta everything, placed the canadian blonde tin in warm water in the sink for 10mins then added it to the carboy with the carapils liquid and the hops bag also adding the 1kg of BrewersChoice Booster malt/dex mix. Missus and I stirred the hell out of everything in the carboy for 10mins (i believe at this stage she stirred so hard it busted the hops bag as I latter found it floating on top with a hole and no contents)

3) Brought it up to the 23 litre mark with a mix of filtered bottled water that had been chilled in the fridge and tap water until I hit around 18-19 deg temp on the thermo. Took an OG but didnt pay much notice, only thought this was for Alcohol %. 

4) Lastly added the US-05 Yeast (1 sachet 12gm? not sure) to the top little stir and closed her up. Let it go bubbling away for 2 weeks temp was bouncing around the cold snap going anywhere from 16deg - 20. Took a gravity reading. waited another day took another one and it was steady with a FG reading of 10-10 (not sure exactly what the number was but I saw a 10 above and a little 10 below) This has been usually the number my last 3 batches was at so I was happy.

5) Sterilised the crap out of the bottles/caps and went to bottle the first one when I noticed the tap wasnt stopping it poured out everywhere! The little bottler end had come off so I turned of the tap resterilised everything again and continued to bottle and cap away fine adding to carb tabltets per long neck.

Thats anbout it I think unless I missed something (probably) Thought it tasted pretty good last night, just had a bit of bitterness I think at the end. Its my first stray away from kits though. The photo with the crazy head was my bad pouring just wanted to see what the head was holding like


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## Liam_snorkel (29/6/12)

Your process seems fine, if it tastes good - it is good.
Next time don't worry about stirring the carboy for 10mins, just do it enough for the ingredients to mix, and when you tip the water in, allow it to splash around.
Leaving the bottles (once carbed) in the fridge for a week or more before drinking will help the crud to settle.


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## yum beer (29/6/12)

the strange bitterness you are tsting is probably from the hops and grain, it will settle with time.

The first time you taste that grain in a kit it seems a little strange, but as with all/most kits time in the bottle will be your friend.

Just from my experience with carb drops, 2 per longie is too much, they will get over carbed with time. 1 1/2 per longie is much better, cut some in half with the butt
end of a decent weighted knife, or look into bulk priming...much more control over carb levels.


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## petesbrew (29/6/12)

Liam_snorkel said:


> Your process seems fine, if it tastes good - it is good.
> Next time don't worry about stirring the carboy for 10mins, just do it enough for the ingredients to mix, and when you tip the water in, allow it to splash around.
> Leaving the bottles (once carbed) in the fridge for a week or more before drinking will help the crud to settle.


+1 Your process looks good (better than I used to do, lol)

The recipe looks like a winner too.
Do it again but use goldings & S-04 yeast instead, and compare them side by side.


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## SaintRoam (29/6/12)

petesbrew said:


> +1 Your process looks good (better than I used to do, lol)
> 
> The recipe looks like a winner too.
> Do it again but use goldings & S-04 yeast instead, and compare them side by side.



Will do! Thanks for the hot tip  just not sure about grain part with I was meant to steep or mash it? Need to write everything down next time.


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## kymba (29/6/12)

i would have said do it again, but with more hops than just a teabag - aren't they only 12g or something?

try for something like 45g boiled for a few minutes with your steeping grain juice and some malt, as per your other thread

and yeah also try what petesbrew said - same kit & malt, diff hops & yeast - you'll be surprised


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## SaintRoam (29/6/12)

kymba said:


> i would have said do it again, but with more hops than just a teabag - aren't they only 12g or something?
> 
> try for something like 45g boiled for a few minutes with your steeping grain juice and some malt, as per your other thread
> 
> and yeah also try what petesbrew said - same kit & malt, diff hops & yeast - you'll be surprised




Sounds good, have to try this when I get back from Japan. Wonder if they sell any crazy kits over there?? I like the hops taste so definitely keen to amp that up. Do you buy the hops as pellets and just add that to the steeping liquid? as for the yeast is one sachet enough or do you need 2 or something?


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## kymba (29/6/12)

SaintRoam said:


> Sounds good, have to try this when I get back from Japan. Wonder if they sell any crazy kits over there?? I like the hops taste so definitely keen to amp that up. Do you buy the hops as pellets and just add that to the steeping liquid? as for the yeast is one sachet enough or do you need 2 or something?


yep hop pellets are about $10/90g from site sponsors - however you can get 3 pounds (about 1.36kg) landed from the USA for about $50. as for when to add the hops you have to decide what you want from them

flavour - boil with your steeped grain juice and some malt for about 10 minutes - say 2 Litres of water + 200g malt + steep juice
aroma - dry hop - add to fermenter after the vigorous fermentation has slowed down. (the co2 from the yeast will scrub the hop aroma if you add them earlier)
bit of both - boil for a coupla minutes

and 1 packet of yeast is fine

good luck in japan - i hear the used underpants in the vending machines are divine this time of year :icon_drool2:


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