# B-saaz (motueka) Substitute?



## davidat (2/8/11)

Hi Folks. Just about to do a LCBA clone with B-Saaz and Cascade only to find LHBS does not have nor ever heard of it. Well does not have B-Saaz and has never heard of Motueka.

I have some Nelson Sav here would that be similar?.

Any other suggestions would be good.

Cheers.​


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## Phoney (2/8/11)

You could try any other sort of citrussy hop (Nelson, Galaxy, Citra) probably will still be a nice beer but it wont be a LCBA clone.

I'd suggest to try another HBS. I see one of the site sponsors up the top has plenty in stock


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (2/8/11)

I'd see if you can get hold of some citra.

Nelson will be fantastic (just adjust your recipe for the higher AA% of Nelson), but it won't be the same.

I also find Nelson can get harsh as a bittering addition above 30 minutes in larger quantities.

Grab hold of some Pepperjack Ale - it's the signature hop in it, and see if you like that.

Have a look in my sig - for the recently completed Lord Nelson Citra Ale - fantastic beer and will give you an idea of how I use Nelson as a rule (and another rule is, that it must exist in my freezer at all times).

Might be one of those "lucky mistakes" one makes.


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## Aus_Rider_22 (2/8/11)

Perhaps Riwaka aka D Saaz? Never tried it before but it sounds similar.

http://craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=1006


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## Nick JD (2/8/11)

I'd sub B Saaz for Cascade. 

To me, Nelson, Galaxy and Citra aren't citrusy - more stone and tropical fruits. 

Incidently, on brewing a recent Kohatu APA I googled "kohatu maori dictionary" ... turns out kohatu means "stone".


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## np1962 (2/8/11)

davidat,
If you add your location maybe we could help out with some better suggestions as to where you might get some in a hurry.
Cheers
Nige


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## bignath (2/8/11)

Lord Raja Goomba I said:


> Nelson will be fantastic (just adjust your recipe for the higher AA% of Nelson), but it won't be the same.
> 
> I also find Nelson can get harsh as a bittering addition above 30 minutes in larger quantities.
> 
> Grab hold of some Pepperjack Ale - it's the signature hop in it, and see if you like that.




I agree NS will be great. It's my favourite all time hop, and i use it a lot. 

I also agree that NS needs to be used with caution though, as if you overdo it, you'll have a bottle of fruit salad. Seriously.
30mins is the bittering addition in my house NS Ale.

However, Pepperjack as far as i know doesn't have any NS at all....

I reckon the good Lord is meaning Knappstein Reserve Lager. Beautiful beer that one. It's definitely the signature hop in that beer.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (2/8/11)

Big Nath said:


> I agree NS will be great. It's my favourite all time hop, and i use it a lot.
> 
> I also agree that NS needs to be used with caution though, as if you overdo it, you'll have a bottle of fruit salad. Seriously.
> 30mins is the bittering addition in my house NS Ale.
> ...



My mistake - it's the sig hop of Knappstein, not PJ.

The reason I got PJ in my head is that I gave my latest NS based creation to 2 different people and both commented on its similarity to PJ. Having said that PJ Ale is known for being Grapefruity in aroma, so it's possible.

I agree totally with BigNath - NS bittering addition is 30m (and no earlier) and generally gets a small 10m addition for some flavour. The creation just mentioned has Smaragd (an 8% AA% hop that is uber cheap from CB) in it as well. I find that with Nottingham Yeast, the fruitiness is muted.

Plays well with Citra as well. I find noble and 'spicy' or 'piney' hops balance it out.

If you do want a fruit salad bottle (which is nice - like S&W PA) - I find you need to up bitterness from another hop, just to balance the fruitiness.

Once I photograph the new beer, I'll whack a recipe and the feedback I've got so far on it. 

Goomba


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## Nick JD (2/8/11)

While I understand it's a favourite hop for some people, if the OP uses Nelson Sauvin (it'll be a nice beer) it's not going to taste like LCBA. It's going to be Fat Yak.

I'd add a bit more Cascade and a touch of Saaz.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I (2/8/11)

Nick JD said:


> While I understand it's a favourite hop for some people, if the OP uses Nelson Sauvin (it'll be a nice beer) it's not going to taste like LCBA. It's going to be Fat Yak.
> 
> I'd add a bit more Cascade and a touch of Saaz.



I did say that, though I think I've kind of accidently put this one :icon_offtopic: nonetheless.

My apologies.

Goomba


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## goldstar (2/8/11)

I've heard Tettnang can be used as a suitable substitute from a few people. I actually think I also read that too in Tonys LCBA Recipe discussion thread in one of the early posts if you have a look.

Here it is: http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=377981

Suggest you read through that thread as there is a lot of good info in there.

Cheers,

Goldstar.


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## hoppy2B (3/8/11)

Man I have no idea what any of you people are talking about. It sounds like you're all having a 'Fat Yak' to me. :lol:


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## davidat (5/8/11)

NigeP62 said:


> davidat,
> If you add your location maybe we could help out with some better suggestions as to where you might get some in a hurry.
> Cheers
> Nige



Thanks for the ideas guys.
I'm in Sydney NigeP62. Very surpirsed to of tried two Sydney LHBS and neither have either B-Saaz or Mot in stock or have even heard of them.

If anyone has a supply in Sydney please do let me know.

Cheers
David.


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## mckenry (5/8/11)

Aus_Rider_22 said:


> Perhaps Riwaka aka D Saaz? Never tried it before but it sounds similar.
> 
> http://craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=1006




I tried this. Didnt come up the same. Another member on here tasted it and also commented that it seemed 'muted'


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## bconnery (5/8/11)

Aus_Rider_22 said:


> Perhaps Riwaka aka D Saaz? Never tried it before but it sounds similar.
> 
> http://craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=1006


In a word, no, in my opinion. 
I love Riwaka and Motuka (D and B) but they are not substitutes. 
D Saaz is a good APA type hop in my opinion, I've used it in APAs and American Ambers with Cascade. Kind of a stonefruit flavour. 
You could use it with Cascade, but again it won't be an LCBA clone. 

I wouldn't stress it (aside from finding yourself a better store!) the LCBA grain bill will handle almost any nice Cascade/Something combo. DSaaz, another C hop, Nelson Sauvin, have a play...


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## davidat (5/8/11)

I see Craftbrewer Online have it so might just get it delivered instead.

Plus reading their website, wow check this one out. This looks like it could make an exciting beer for those Hop Heads out there.
http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=1006

*Description:* 
Riwaka (D Saaz) hop pellets. NZ Crop 2011 (AA 5.7%) *No bulk price due to very limited stock.*
Its powerful grapefruit citrus characters are literally breathtaking. If you want to say 
hops in your beer, D Saaz says it all. Oil content is almost double that of its Saazer parent.

*Brewers notes:* If you want to say hops in your beer than this variety says it all. The pure weight of the oil character experienced during selection carries right through to the glass. A punchy addition to the new-world styles of Pale Ale and regional Pilseners. A cult hero that is established in the New Zealand craft beer culture.

*A bold hop that makes a statement *


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## pk.sax (5/8/11)

I gave Amarillo a go with Tony's LCBA recipe in place of mouteka. Worked out a treat. Was my first all grain attempt, also cleared astoundingly well.


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## gap (5/8/11)

davidat said:


> Thanks for the ideas guys.
> I'm in Sydney NigeP62. Very surpirsed to of tried two Sydney LHBS and neither have either B-Saaz or Mot in stock or have even heard of them.
> 
> If anyone has a supply in Sydney please do let me know.
> ...



Look up Absolute Homebrew. Pat is in St Mary's , near Penrith, but he also does online mail order.

Regards

Graeme


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## The Giant (5/8/11)

He is after B sazz and craftbrewer dont have it.

They had it out of stock for a while and now its been removed from the list.
http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/default.asp?CID=17

I to have bene trying to hunt it down but even online I havent been able to find anything.

Is it Little Creatures Pale Ale you are looking at doing or Bright Ale?

I did Boonies Clone of a LCPA found here http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=49357

Apparently this is the old hops recipe but for me it was pretty much spot on and a great beer. 

Another recipe reviewed well here I have found as the Bright Ale, and this one requires the BSaz

Batch Size (L): 23.00 Wort Size (L): 23.00
Total Grain (kg): 3.30
Anticipated OG: 1.046 Plato: 11.52
Anticipated EBC: 7.2
Anticipated IBU: 25.5
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 45 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
90.9 3.00 kg. Coopers LME - Light Australia 1.038 7
9.1 0.30 kg. Corn Sugar Generic 1.046 0

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
12.00 g. B-Saaz Pellet 6.80 9.4 45 min.
12.00 g. Cascade Pellet 5.90 8.2 45 min.
10.00 g. B-Saaz Pellet 6.80 4.2 15 min.
10.00 g. Cascade Pellet 5.90 3.7 15 min.
18.00 g. B-Saaz Pellet 6.80 0.0 0 min.
18.00 g. Cascade Pellet 5.90 0.0 0 min.


Yeast
-----

US-05




davidat said:


> I see Craftbrewer Online have it so might just get it delivered instead.
> 
> Plus reading their website, wow check this one out. This looks like it could make an exciting beer for those Hop Heads out there.
> http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=1006
> ...


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## gibbocore (5/8/11)

B-sazz is now known as Motueka


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## The Giant (5/8/11)

My apologies.

In that case here u go http://www.craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=601


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## Cannibal Smurf (23/9/13)

So, already mashed in and don't have time to get to CB.

I need a sub for Motueka, I have Summer Saaz or NS to choose from. Recipe is Drunk Arab's Fly Blown Belgian ... suggestions?


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## syl (23/9/13)

I would use Cascade. But with what you have got then NS.


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## DU99 (23/9/13)

tend to go for Summer Saaz


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## Cannibal Smurf (23/9/13)

Hmm, checking the recipe again, it seems he uses Saaz... not B Saaz (Motueka). So with that in mind, would you still suggest the same?

Saaz - Used for: Pilsners and Bohemian style lagers
Aroma: Delicate, mild, clean, somewhat floral -- Noble hops
Substitutes: Tettnanger, Lublin
Examples: Pulsner Urquell

Summer Saaz - Used for: Pilsners and Bohemian style lagers
Aroma: Delicate, mild, clean, somewhat floral -- Noble hops
Substitutes: Tettnanger, Lublin
Examples: Pulsner Urquell

NS - Triploid variety bred from "Smoothcone" released in 2000. Oil profile said to taste like "fresh crushed gooseberries" similar to Sauvignon Blanc, giving it its name. Very fruity, citrusy - use in moderation. 
Used for: Pale ale, Super Premiums. 
Substitutes: None

Did I just answer my own question?


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## manticle (23/9/13)

Wouldn't put ns near a belgian


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## micblair (23/9/13)

I would substitute Moteuka with Wai-iti. Craftbrewer have this, and it will impart that characteristic NZ hop flavour you're searching for, which I'm well accustomed to after living in NZ for a while now. Nelson and Riwaka will bring too much to the table if used incorrectly, so I would steer away from these.


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## Cannibal Smurf (23/9/13)

Thanks for your advice all.

With Manticle being a Belgian fan like myself, I went with his advice and stayed away from the NS... so Summer Saaz for the win. Will find out in a few months how it goes.


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