# Whats Your Favourite/best Kit Can



## govorko1974 (8/4/11)

was just wondering what people use as their favourite kit can or what the think are the best ones on the market...i have only ever used coopers myself


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## mwd (8/4/11)

Coopers IPA here
Second is Coopers Stout both give very good results without messing around too much with addons.


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## Superoo (8/4/11)

I did an Aussie MID 3.5 (not sure of the brand), at 13 degrees with S23 Lager yeast about a year ago, and it was a stunner


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## keifer33 (8/4/11)

Pretty much just use the Coopers Canadian Blonde as its very light and not much twang. A good kit to pimp out.


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## kalbarluke (8/4/11)

+1 with the Canadian Blonde (Coopers or Morgans) because you can do what you like to it. I like the Cascade Pale Ale cans with a US05 yeast to make a nice APA. I have heard good things about Mangrove Jacks but never tried them.


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## TmC (8/4/11)

Im drinking an APA now which is very nice after 2 weeks. I have a few going in the fermenter now, Coopers English Bitter, Heritage Lager and Dark Ale/Stout toucan.


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## Harry Volting (8/4/11)

+1 Coopers Dark Ale/Stout toucan. Easy.


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## TmC (8/4/11)

Only prob is mine is fermenting at about 25 degrees :blink:


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## nine_cases (8/4/11)

Coopers dark ale with kg of dextrose kg of BE1 and either US04 or the lid yeast and fuggles to dry hop. Been an absolute winner for me.


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## Pistol (8/4/11)

Depends what type of beers you like, but I like the Muntons Yorkshire Bitter.


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## michael_aussie (8/4/11)

Pistol said:


> Depends what type of beers you like, but I like the Muntons Yorkshire Bitter.


+1

I used to think I was a Dark man... but bloody hell... those pommy bitters are nice ... but my favourite currently is a blend between the two... 

a bit of dark and a bit of bitters... the two compliment each other nicely


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## woodwormm (8/4/11)

shall i propose the conspiracy theory that many of the Coopers and Morgans cans are the same with different labels?

i heard from a bloke who heard from a bloke that Coopers only can a couple of their own the rest are badge engineering.... 

i use both, both good. i agree Coopers IPA is a stunner... at about 8 months..


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## malt_shovel (8/4/11)

printed forms section said:


> shall i propose the conspiracy theory that many of the Coopers and Morgans cans are the same with different labels?
> 
> i heard from a bloke who heard from a bloke that Coopers only can a couple of their own the rest are badge engineering....
> 
> i use both, both good. i agree Coopers IPA is a stunner... at about 8 months..



Brewferm belgian beer kits are the top of my list. They don't make as much, but it is an excellent beer IMO.

Worth the effort of finding.

Goose & Firkin Dogbolter kit is awesome with some Styrian Goldings thrown in for aroma as well.


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## milob40 (8/4/11)

mangrove jacks blonde, nice on its own with hardly any kit twang, steep some grains for an even nicer summer lager style and some late haletau hops.
a favourite amongst my "i don't drink home brew" friends.
you just can't bugger up this kit.


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## yum beer (8/4/11)

coopers european lager is not bad,
black rock dry lager is a fine drop if you like the dry lager style.


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## enuun (8/4/11)

Coopers stout and dark ale kit
Second in line will be muntons conkerwood kit. brew it with london ale yeast and you got a smashing brew.


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## Brewman_ (8/4/11)

Favourite kits:

Coopers Stout - Green can., what ever that one is.
Coopers IPA
Black Rock Pils Blonde. Use this as a base for lagers and Pilsners.

Fear_n_loath


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## funky (8/4/11)

Pistol said:


> Depends what type of beers you like, but I like the Muntons Yorkshire Bitter.




agreed, i put it on 3 weeks ago, it's a cracker at the moment, will leave for a couple more weeks then get into it.


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## jyo (8/4/11)

Coopers Sparkling Ale with 250 gms crystal and 30-40 gms Styrians in a 10 minute boil is a cracker.
Muntons Yorkshire Bitter was also a huge favourite.
Coopers Stout toucan. (cheers Bribie)
Cheers, John.


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## nine_cases (9/4/11)

On the topic of favourite cans and the conspiracy theory that it is the same goop different label, has anybody ever tried the homebrand kits. They are always there in the homebrew section of woolworths but I can never bring myself to buy one. 

Anybody had any experience?


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## bignath (9/4/11)

nine_cases said:


> On the topic of favourite cans and the conspiracy theory that it is the same goop different label, has anybody ever tried the homebrand kits. They are always there in the homebrew section of woolworths but I can never bring myself to buy one.
> 
> Anybody had any experience?




They make beer. 

I used them a lot when i started out, trying to find what i like. Didn't notice a huge difference between the homebrand stuff and coopers original series range, other than the yeast. The coopers international series range i found to be a better quality product, and not just paying for the nice pretty label. In my opinion, the coopers yeasts supplied with their tins are largely crap, but they are better than the homebrand ones. No idea if the goo in the tin is the same/similar/ etc. though.


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## DU99 (9/4/11)

+2 on Cooper's blonde with a BE1 kit.. :chug: 
Bacchus & Barley have tried there's, liked the stout


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## timryan (9/4/11)

The Coopers Pale Ale even by itself is a nice drop.. Just started adding hops to my beers so ive opened up a whole new game.. Wouldnt mind putting down another blonde with some cascade and amarillo possible one with honey too... Too many options to choose from and not enough fermenters..


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## tonyt (9/4/11)

Just did a Coopers Aussie Pale Ale with 300 DME and 700 dex............4 weeks kegged..........love it!


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## Nick JD (9/4/11)

The ones without any bittering so you have to add real hops.


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## timryan (9/4/11)

well im pretty sure my hops arent fake mate...


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## XavierZ (9/4/11)

Coopers Pale Ale (and a pack of Galaxy Hops which is ALWAYS purchased with every can)


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## timryan (9/4/11)

i often see the tooheys kits always wondered if they are worth the time of day? Opinions?


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## Nick JD (9/4/11)

timryan said:


> well im pretty sure my hops arent fake mate...



Good to hear.

My point was, the stuff in the cans is isohop.


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## Rod (9/4/11)

Coopers English Bitter + 1Kg of light dry malt

you will be impressed


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## Braumoasta (9/4/11)

Nick JD said:


> My point was, the stuff in the cans is isohop.



Not always. Coopers cans all use real hops, with only some cans (I'm guessing the more bitter cans) having some isohops added to raise the bitterness.


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## TmC (9/4/11)

Rod said:


> Coopers English Bitter + 1Kg of light dry malt
> 
> you will be impressed



Rod, i have a can of Coopers bitter, and a bit of LDM. Did you use the kit yeast and at what temps?


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## Pennywise (9/4/11)

Coopers English Bitter, by far the best I've tried. I used to make it with 500g LDME, 100g Dex, 30g Styrian Goldings boild for just a few mins (or sometimes I dry hopped it), Wyeast 1968. Always beautiful


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (9/4/11)

I always liked the Coopers Canadian Blonde tins. Always with a couple of hits of hops, either Cascade or Amarillo 10g's at 15mins and 10g's at 5mins :chug: 

Cheers.


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## manticle (9/4/11)

Nick JD said:


> Good to hear.
> 
> My point was, the stuff in SOME cans is isohop.



Edited to reflect the truth a little more closely.


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## michael_aussie (9/4/11)

nine_cases said:


> On the topic of favourite cans and the conspiracy theory that it is the same goop different label, has anybody ever tried the homebrand kits. They are always there in the homebrew section of woolworths but I can never bring myself to buy one.
> 
> Anybody had any experience?


The whole "homebrand" choice is an interesting consumer decision.
I buy homebrand when ever possible. for example:-
Weetbix - a "different" taste to regular weetbix, but IMO not inferior.
Milk - we always get home brand
nappysan - always home brand
bread

however- I've never dared to try the home-brand home brew cans... I wonder why?

I have also wondered where they come from?
I'd almost guarantee they come from a "real" home brew factory --- like coopers or tooheys.

I've seen homebrand bread made on exactly the same bread lines as the other loaves you pay 4x as much for.
It's amazing the "value" of a "pretty" package.

Yet, I still haven't tried homebrand homebrew myself.

I ask myself, when I'm paying top $$$ for the "fancy" homebrew cans.... am I just paying for art work and marketing???



timryan said:


> i often see the tooheys kits always wondered if they are worth the time of day? Opinions?



I have made many tooheys darks.
Blind taste tests back to back against coopers ..... I can't pick the difference.

Yet, once again, I know if they are both on the shelf at the same price, I always buy the coopers kit.
The "consumer" brain is a funny beast.


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## Nick JD (9/4/11)

manticle said:


> Edited to reflect the truth a little more closely.



References please.


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## michael_aussie (9/4/11)

Nick JD said:


> Good to hear.
> 
> My point was, the stuff in the cans is isohop.






manticle said:


> Edited to reflect the truth a little more closely.






Nick JD said:


> References please.


I think the old primary school resolution should come into play..

NickJD... you show Manticle yours and he'll show you his.
... and can I see both please.... I have nothing to show.


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## Nick JD (9/4/11)

michael_aussie said:


> I think the old primary school resolution should come into play..
> 
> NickJD... you show Manticle yours and he'll show you his.
> ... and can I see both please.... I have nothing to show.



Nowhere can I find any information that says "some" kits are isohopped. 

It's more like ALL, except some conjecture that _some _Coopers kits aren't, but others are. 

Has anyone got this from Coopers? And if they do vacuum evaporate hopped wort ... why no cost difference? 

Coopers Lager cans are isohopped or I'm a Manticle's Uncle.

Anyway - my favourite cans are still the ones without any bittering.


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## manticle (9/4/11)

Nick JD said:


> References please.



I'd have to hunt through my emails for the exact one but about a year ago I emailed Coopers to settle whether or not the tins were isohopped.

The reply was that all coopers beer worts were produced in the same way (kits and bottled beer alike). The kits are obviously further condensed and supplied with a different yeast.

The Cooper's rep continued on to say that fresh hops (flowers from memory but don't quote me on that one) are used in the kettle and bitterness is adjusted where necessary with hop extract.

I'll hunt through the emails and see if I can find it.

Meanwhile a reference that suggests which kits are solely isohopped is now your responsibility (and I have absolutely no doubt that some are).

After a quick search I found the relevant email. In it he says 'all our brews' which I interpreted to mean all Coopers brews but will admit is ambiguous

Attached with my full name and contact details edited out:

_G’day Andrew, 



We kettle fresh hops in all of our brews (Pride of Ringwood) and adjust bitterness with iso on some prior to packaging. We cover this and heaps of other interesting topics on our home brew forum.



Cheers,



Frank Akers

Home Brew Advisor

Coopers Brewery

Adelaide, SA



Toll free 1300 654 455



Join the Brewers Guild: www.coopershomebrew.com 



From: andrew Sent: Wednesday, 28 July 2010 6:56 PM
To: Frank Akers
Subject: Isohop or fresh flowers/pellets in kit tins



Hi,

Just wondering if you can tell me if isohop extract is used in any of the coopers tins? Just some curiosity among fellow homebrewers.

Many thanks

Andrew_


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## Nick JD (9/4/11)

manticle said:


> ... and bitterness is adjusted where necessary with hop extract.



There you go. The sole company that doesn't isohop their kits ... well, does. There's my reference: you.

The only kit they don't isohop is their lowest IBU offering. The Mexican can is 270 IBUs - and if my anal-litical powers are correct, it's the only one that's not isohopped, because all the others are higher IBUs.


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## manticle (9/4/11)

How do you know which ones do? Do ESB? Muntons?

I'm not saying isohop isn't used nor that it isn't used widely. It's just a furphy to suggest all tins do and considering how widely coopers tins are used by kit brewers, that's a fair few that may not be (note edited post with actual email from coopers suggests some, not all kits may be isohopped).

And sorry but if you're asking me for references (and I provided a reasonable one) then make an effort to back up your own assertions. How do you know they isohop all tins bar the low IBU one?


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## Nick JD (9/4/11)

manticle said:


> How do you know they isohop all tins bar the low IBU one?



You said Coopers told you they adjust their IBUs with isohop. Across the range on their website, there's only a couple that have the same IBUs.

Assuming they do as you said, and simply evaporate the same worts they produce for drinking as homebrew, then by my calculations about 3/4 of the Coopers range of kits is isohopped, perhaps more.

Unless there's a way to remove bitterness...

The other brands? I'd say its safe to assume isohops are used until otherwise known. There are not many breweries worldwide who do not use them. 

We could email them all, but I fear we'd find out that cans of goop without isohops are rare. Coopers do make unhopped extracts, and they only use PoR, I'm taking that as a hint.


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## timryan (9/4/11)

Game, Set and Match Nick Jd..


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## michael_aussie (9/4/11)

I've been more impressed with Manticle's than NickJD's.


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## yum beer (9/4/11)

have done one brew many brews ago using home brand draught, added a bit of extra dark malt and raw sugar, came out all right according to my records, but took 3 months plus aging.


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## manticle (9/4/11)

Nick JD said:


> You said Coopers told you they adjust their IBUs with isohop. Across the range on their website, there's only a couple that have the same IBUs.
> 
> Assuming they do as you said, and simply evaporate the same worts they produce for drinking as homebrew, then by my calculations about 3/4 of the Coopers range of kits is isohopped, perhaps more.
> 
> Unless there's a way to remove bitterness...



Sorry mate I'm not with you.

You asserted that kits (implication being all kits) are bittered with isohop rather than real hops (implication being solely bittered with no real hops in sight). The question is how do you know that?

I've then suggested to you that not all kits are necessarily bittered without real hops to which you've asked for a reference. Fair enough. I provided a fairly substantial one which suggests that Coopers (at least) use real hops in the kettle and MAY adjust SOME kits with isohop.

This means your assertion that all kits use isohop (and by implication from your wording do not use real hops) is incorrect.

Instead of answering which kits do use isohop as their sole bittering agent and how you know this, you then use my reference to somehow indicate that only one coopers kit uses no isohop. What does same ibus have to do with it?

You are not making sense. Please go through from point a to point b. I have no doubt some kits, maybe even most kits use iso as a sole bittering agent. That's not enough to assert that all do nor is it enough to assert that none use real hops. Some at least (and a very popular range at that) DO use real hops.

We could continue this argument for some time if you like. Before we do, using a reference other than me, could you please tell me which kits use isohop as their sole bittering agent and use no real hops (whether flowers, plugs or pellets) in their wort/extract production?

I'm happy to email coopers again and clear anything up but until I hear anything I won't be making claims beyond my knowledge. Not sure why you are.


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## Mick74 (9/4/11)

It doesn't really give specifics but this is what Paul Burge (PB2) from Coopers had to say about isohops in their kits on their website:


> The wort for our beer kits is bittered in the brewhouse. However, some of our kits are touched up with a squirt of ISO and/or Aroma hop during packaging.



(Source)


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## Nick JD (9/4/11)

Some cans of goop contain no isohops at all. 

They are rare. As rare as your local pub's beers having no isohops in them. 

One of my favourite beers is completely isohopped however, I don't believe isohops improve cans of goop more than they improve the profit margin of the breweries who make them.

Now, what other statements can I throw a blanket over? Kit beers are made from the scum at the bottom of the kettle, the malt with rat poo in it, and the hops that got mouldy in the floods. 

Cheer up Manticle, that can of goop hopped with 40g of freshly dried PoR flowers will find you some day.


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## Rod (9/4/11)

TmC said:


> Rod, i have a can of Coopers bitter, and a bit of LDM. Did you use the kit yeast and at what temps?



I used kit yeast 

20C

I think the Light dried malt helps a lot


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## manticle (9/4/11)

Nick JD said:


> Cheer up Manticle



I'm perfectly cheerful. Mashing the second brew of the day while waiting for brew one's convection currents to settle down.

Just not a fan of mistruth and half truth through sweeping assumption stated as dogmatic fact.
It is hard for you to admit when you're wrong isn't it?


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## Nick JD (9/4/11)

manticle said:


> It is hard for you to admit when you're wrong isn't it?



Not really. You edited my post to say "My point was, the stuff in SOME cans is isohop."

I still say "My point was, the stuff in MOST cans is isohop."

I'd happily put $100 down that 9 out of 10 (or more) cans are isohopped, most wholey. Even the Coopers ones (which are the only ones anyone has any faith in being hopped with actual hops).

That just ain't _some_, it's damn near _all. _


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## philw (9/4/11)

Coopers Pale is one I always have about the place


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## bum (9/4/11)

Coopers IPA was the only one I was ever properly happy with (and even then only with 90g of hops in the boil).

Could easily have been a problem with the brewer, of course.


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## Nick JD (9/4/11)

My favourite kit is Coopers Pilsner made with S189 and nothing else up to 14L. 

It's the only way I've ever been able to make a kit beer not taste like a kit beer.


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## TmC (9/4/11)

Nick JD said:


> My favourite kit is Coopers Pilsner made with S189 and nothing else up to 14L.
> 
> It's the only way I've ever been able to make a kit beer not taste like a kit beer.



Do you think making it to 14L improves the taste?


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## Nick JD (9/4/11)

TmC said:


> Do you think making it to 14L improves the taste?



Just think of it as a one-can toucan.


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## TmC (9/4/11)

Right


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## MHB (9/4/11)

Nick JD said:


> Not really. You edited my post to say "My point was, the stuff in SOME cans is isohop."
> 
> I still say "My point was, the stuff in MOST cans is isohop."
> 
> ...


Nick sorry but I think youre mistaken, each kit is its own wort. Coopers make five un-hoped Extracts (Wheat, Extra Pale, Pale, Amber and Dark) these are sold as Extract. The kits and the extract are made in the same brewhouse that makes Coopers beers, they get shunted to the concentrate room where they are vacuum concentrated and caned.
Im fairly sure they would bitter with hops wherever possible, if for no other reason than that IBUs from boiling hops are cheaper than from IBUs Iso extract (in a brewery). I know they add some Hop Aroma in the form of extract (it all goes during evaporation) and Im sure they monitor the bitterness very closely and adjust if necessary.
You would be mistaken to think Coopers dont care; everyone I have met or spoken to at Coopers has been very passionate about beer and brewing they didnt get to be the biggest kit maker on earth by being dodgy or selling second best kits.
MHB

Oh favourite Coopers kit would have to be the IPA, its a cracker


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## Nick JD (9/4/11)

MHB said:


> IBU's from boiling hops are cheaper than from IBU's Iso extract (in a brewery).



I thought the reason they make isohops is to get more from the hops.

Is "fairly sure" almost like "some"? Or more like "most"?

Why would I think Coopers don't care? If their range of homebrew cans was the same as their range of beer I'd think they were the best brewery in Australia. They're the best homebrew goop makers in the world. Gold medal for that.

I even buy their beer when I want to drink cloudy PoR with pear juice.


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## TmC (9/4/11)

Sorry if this is stupid, what are isohops?


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## MHB (9/4/11)

But you see Nick, Coopers have a Co-Gen plant (basically a Concord jet engine spinning a generator), the wast product is heat, enough for all the brewery, free heat means boiling doesnt cost money.
Ok I get that you dont like kits and Im an AG brewer to, but youre making wild sweeping generalisations without a factual basis to work from. If you want a contention to stand prove your case. I thought kits were made from Iso, I put that question to Coopers and I was wrong, if you search you will find my apology for spreading disinformation for so many years.
There are lots of reasons to use Iso, the main one is consistency big brewers want every batch to be the same Iso allows very precise control. There is no variation, the product is standardised as is the (generally boring) beer made from it.
MHB

Sorry
Iso-Hops are extracted and purified Alpha Acid (the main bittering part of hops), this is then chemically Isomerised, converting about 30% of the Alpha Acid into Iso Alpha Acid, the balance being un-convert Alpha Acid and other hop oils (depending on the process used).
Can be added post fermentation in very exact doses to provide precise bitterness control, generally not thought of as a nice tasting bitterness, regarded as harsh and two-dimensional
M


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## timryan (9/4/11)

thanks for asking that TmC i was too nervous too.. you say you brew at work haha were do you work? awesome boss?


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## DU99 (9/4/11)

iso hops
http://www.hopsteiner.com/isopg1.htm


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## manticle (9/4/11)

Nick JD said:


> Not really. You edited my post to say "My point was, the stuff in SOME cans is isohop."
> 
> I still say "My point was, the stuff in MOST cans is isohop."
> 
> ...



I'll freely admit that my edit of your post needed either clarification or to be made better.

The rest however I think is a lot of assumption based on nothing. You may be right. I don't know. There are some premium kits out there such as ESB and brewferm which might possibly use real hops too. I don't know and neither do you.

You said a=b. I suggested a doesn't necessarily = b and provided some back up information.

Your betting tendencies make very little difference to the fact that you don't know enough to state for sure and therefore, I would argue, you shouldn't. If what you mean is 'most kits are probably isohopped and adding your own hops to an extract kit is a good method of brewing' then I wouldn't think twice about responding as I'd probably agree.

You've even gone so far as to say coopers isohop ALL of their kits bar one. Again - based on what? If you know something say how and why. If not, don't make sweeping statements based on assumption.

'Fairly sure' is at least as good as I'd bet $100 that nine times out of ten...." or 'I think it's safe to assume'

@Tmc: isohops are hop oil extracts containing the bittering compounds from hops. They can be used by commercial and homebrewers to bitter or adjust bittering in a brew. Think of it as bittering juice.

http://morebeer.com/view_product/7835/1036...ss_Extract_1_oz


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## _HOME_BREW_WALLACE_ (9/4/11)

isohop is a hop extract. It's what the breweries use to bitter/flavour their beer. :icon_vomit:


EDIT: Bugger You Manticle!


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## MHB (9/4/11)

Wallace, in all fairness its far from all breweries that use Iso, CUB do but most of the worlds beer is still fully kettled.
MHB


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## TmC (9/4/11)

timryan said:


> thanks for asking that TmC i was too nervous too.. you say you brew at work haha were do you work? awesome boss?



Yeah pretty awesome boss, work at a Fruit and Vegy Wholesale Centre, i was brewing at home and gave him a brew which wasn't too bad, mid you he was drinking xxxx gold and he said he would let me brew at work if i gave him a case of beer a month.


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## timryan (9/4/11)

good form haha wish my boss was like that.. actually i dont think even if my boss was awesome they would let me brew in a school or jail haha


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## michael_aussie (9/4/11)

TmC said:


> Yeah pretty awesome boss, work at a Fruit and Vegy Wholesale Centre, i was brewing at home and gave him a brew which wasn't too bad, mid you he was drinking xxxx gold and he said he would let me brew at work if i gave him a case of beer a month.


I have awesome bosses too.... but not "that" awesome!!!

I guess you work in a very small place where something as unusual as letting an employee brew at work doesn't end up with other employees getting jealous.

I'm jealous .. and I don't even work there!


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## TmC (9/4/11)

Mostly female co-workers (another perk) so they dont mind, as long as i keep it tidy, two of them even like the smell of wort :lol:


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## michael_aussie (9/4/11)

TmC said:


> Mostly female co-workers (another perk) so they dont mind, as long as i keep it tidy, two of them even like the smell of wort :lol:


I'm not sure that female co-workers are always a perk.

Female co-workers can be easy on the eye .....
and I know that some guys are drama queens ... but IMO guys are usually more forgiving and don't play the same mind-games that females do.

The girls who are great sports and fantastic to work with .... but some of their sisters need rocks thrown at them.


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## Green-Lobster (10/4/11)

timryan said:


> i often see the tooheys kits always wondered if they are worth the time of day? Opinions?




Used about 15 cans of the dark last year . Supermarket was ditching them at 5 $ a pop. cans of liquid sugar 2$ .
Woolies have had the draught and lager at 8$ recently so have another 12 tins .
I mix up 3 tins at a time 
1 kg of honey 
1kg light or dark malt
1 kg of dextrose or the liquid tins 
split into 2, 30 litre up to 27 mark.
2 cinnamon sticks a barrel 50ml of ginger extract cordial from health food shop.
40 to 80 grams hops whatever type .
I rack after 1to 2 weeks another 10 days and bulk prime .
tried coopers yeast and tooheys yeast side by side . Coopers yeast fermented longer clearer and better all round .
Makes 6 cases . I have about 15 to 25 cases down so i dont drink under 3months .
No complaints here .


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## Kevman (11/4/11)

timryan said:


> i often see the tooheys kits always wondered if they are worth the time of day? Opinions?




I've done the Tooheys Special Draught a couple of times with BE2 and US05 yeast as an easy drinker.

Now that I know how to brew it to a consistent taste, I often add some hops for a different flavour and aroma to get an idea of different types of hops and how they change a beer.

The coopers pale ale (green tin) also works well as a hop tester.

I like the draught but I don't like the Tooheys lager. Then again I don't like the Coopers lager (original series- yellow tin I think?). 

The Coopers European Lager though is pretty good and the yeast is forgiving for a lager yeast. You can brew it at around 20 C and still get a nice clean lager like finish.


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## pdfarrell (30/5/11)

I'm thinking the whole debate about what kits/brands are isohopped is getting a little off topic.

_(I started reading this thread to get some good suggestions about kits that other people have enjoyed, and it's turned to rubbish.)_

Back on topic... I must say I am a fan of Coopers APA, done with a BE2 done with US-05 yeast @ 18deg. Doesn't taste like the commercial version but a good quaffer none the less.


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## bum (30/5/11)

BrewingCousin said:


> _(I started reading this thread to get some good suggestions about kits that other people have enjoyed, and it's turned to rubbish.)_


Lucky you were here to regulate then!

The quality of the ingredients is irrelevant. Gotcha.


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## mickpc (30/5/11)

Any love for the ESB kits? I am drinking the Czech Pilsner atm and its is really popping out as a great beer. So, guys worth the money?


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## yum beer (30/5/11)

I like the black rock lager, put one down today...actually a dry lager, I find the hop flavours are quite nice and you you only need to throw in some BE2 or dex and LDM to get a very drinkable brew.


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## TmC (31/5/11)

yum beer said:


> I like the black rock lager, put one down today...actually a dry lager, I find the hop flavours are quite nice and you you only need to throw in some BE2 or dex and LDM to get a very drinkable brew.



I have an out of date can that i would like to use, do you have a specific recipe that you like? I was just going to put it in with some BE2 and maybe dry hop if it needs it. I made one yesterday with the can and 500g sugar to 9L, sort of a 2.3 can :kooi:


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## yum beer (31/5/11)

TmC said:


> I have an out of date can that i would like to use, do you have a specific recipe that you like? I was just going to put it in with some BE2 and maybe dry hop if it needs it. I made one yesterday with the can and 500g sugar to 9L, sort of a 2.3 can :kooi:



this is a recipe I have used for a while, makes a nice strong lager.

Black Rock Dry Lager
Dextrose 1kg
Maltodextrin 250gm
Raw Sugar 2 cups
DDM 100gm
I used the kit yeast with a little extra ale yeast( about 2gm)
Brewed around 15-16c for 14 days.
ABV in bottle 5.5%
Bottle condition for 8 weeks.
YUM :icon_cheers:

This is a favorite of my brother who downs TED like its water.


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## TmC (31/5/11)

yum beer said:


> this is a recipe I have used for a while, makes a nice strong lager.
> 
> Black Rock Dry Lager
> Dextrose 1kg
> ...



Thanks for that, the raw sugar, is that the brown stuff?


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## lano (31/5/11)

My stock standard is:

Thomas Coopers IPA Can
BE2
Fuggles Hop bag (in boiling water for 10 minutes)

21 degrees - 10 days in fementer

Very nice, mildly hoppy ale. Love it!

Any suggestions for other hop combinations would be appreciated though!


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## TedAu (31/5/11)

The first one I did when I got back into brewing was Coopers International series Aussie Pale Ale with 1kg of Dried Light Malt Extract on advice of the LHBS. I now try to have a keg of this on hand at all times (haven't been that lucky so far)

I leave it in the fermenter for 2 weeks then straight into the keg.

It's fairly drinkable straight away and if I can keep it around for six weeks then it starts to come into its prime.

Before the first APA was chilled I had started fermenting a corona clone to keep SWMBO happy, was a little upset when she prefered the APA and made me drink the Corona clone all on my own. 

I've got a keg of Coopers Wheat beer currently in the fridge that came out okay. I think I'd prefer a little punchier flavour, but I might try it again later in the year as summer swiller.

I'll get into AG one day, but while bubs is young and time is short I'll stick with the K&K. It's crapping over anything I'd find in the bottlo for less than $50 a carton.


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## Pr3d470r (31/5/11)

My Favourite is Morgans Canadian Light, Supa Alpha Hop Pellets, 1kg Dextrose, 250g Dried Corn Syrup, Taste like corona comes out about 4.5%


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## lano (6/6/11)

Pr3d470r said:


> My Favourite is Morgan's Canadian Light, Supa Alpha Hop Pellets, 1kg Dextrose, 250g Dried Corn Syrup, Taste like corona comes out about 4.5%




Hi Pr3d470r (if that is your real name!)

I myself, do not enjoy Carona's. However, my wife loves them. So... In the interest of the a happy household can you please give me a few more directions on the process you take to create your Carona replica? (i.e. do you boil, or just throw in? throw hop pellets in dry? how much? when?)

Cheers!!!


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## yum beer (6/6/11)

TmC said:


> Thanks for that, the raw sugar, is that the brown stuff?




It is brown but not 'brown sugar'
its labelled as raw sugar.
its the sugar before they take out all the molasses to make to white sugar, so its a little sweeter and adds a slighty toffee to the brew. It also weighs a lot more, almost twice as dense as white sugar.


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## yum beer (6/6/11)

TedAu said:


> I'll get into AG one day, but while bubs is young and time is short I'll stick with the K&K. It's crapping over anything I'd find in the bottlo for less than $50 a carton.




Right on Ted. kits rock if you can keep your temps controlled. and if thats what you like, I certainly agree on the APA, I have brewed basically the same recipe as yours  and its quite nice after about 8 weeks.


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## Clownfish (18/6/11)

Coopers Lager, Real Ale and Draught with 500 g of honey are excellent
Coopers Blonde, Pale Ale with half recommended additives 
Coopers European Lager, Thomas Cooper Pilsner with half recommended additives

These are my favourites. No extra treatment, easy to make, let ferment for about 28 days, no need to filter. Clear, clean and nice. European and Pilsner leave for at least 6 months and even a year to get best taste.


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## Deebo (18/6/11)

Muntons Pilsner (the 1.8kg one)
1kg Light Dry Malt Extract
500g pils malt grain (if you can be bothered)
25g Nelson Sauvin hops put into a coffee plunger with boiling water for 5 minutes then plunged and added to fermenter
Nottingham or US-05 dried yeast in summer
W34/70 saflager in winter

Very nice drop


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## chaos666chris (20/6/12)

michael_aussie said:


> The whole "homebrand" choice is an interesting consumer decision.
> I buy homebrand when ever possible. for example:-
> Weetbix - a "different" taste to regular weetbix, but IMO not inferior.
> Milk - we always get home brand
> ...


a quick input when you go to the movies and buy popcorn the popcorn ix somewhere around 10X cheaper than the packaging itself which is absolute bs

have you tried the home brand drought kit


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## chaos666chris (20/6/12)

sorry cant find how to edit and anyone liked the home brand drought kit any suggestions on the making additives i was thinking of doing my norm glucose + the tin 

just so i can taste what the kit is meant to taste like and see if i need to improve it at all ]
i see if it aint broke don't fix it mind you this makes a really nice coopers lager kit also 

im going to try this with the coopers drought i don't think the drought will be much different to the lager 

but haven't made the drought going on 5 years when i used to brew b4 i gave up for a few years due to moving interstate


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## wyane (20/6/12)

seems this thread is still kicking, so here's my 2c

Styles aside, if you want to do a simple k&k with the closest-to-commercial results, go with the *Coopers stout*.

When adding unhopped extracts, hops or steeped grains i've found the *Coopers Lager* or *Tooheys Lager* most adaptable. The comments earlier in the thread about Canadian Blonde are interesting and i may give that a try - perhaps even the Mex Cerveza can be taken in several directions given its low bitterness?

Have done stock standard Blonde with Coopers (many times) and Mangrove Jacks (once). The MJ's can may have been old as it tasted twangy and green even at 8 weeks. or maybe i got a bit of wild yeast in it?

Didn't read the entire thread to get the verdict on Woolies cans, but i'm willing to give it a go (tho' never, have probably for the "nice label" reason - but buy homebrand sugar, rice, milk so there you go).

One last note: Tooheys yeast is horrible and they only supply 5g ... dry-pitching that much yeast in 23L of wort should be a crime!!!!


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## whatwhat (20/6/12)

Would have to say that the bishops English bitter is a top drop. Normally i would use a liquid burtons yeast with it. 

If your are allowing cider into the equation then the mangrove jacks apple cider is worth a shout. 

Just my opinion


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## Ivan Other One (20/6/12)

Stock beer is 



Thomas Coopers Draught
1kg Goodies pack
Hops, using different ones or a combo each brew.



Best brew

T C IPA
1kg Goodies pack.
500 g Dex
5g Citra into boil @ 10mins
15 g Citra @ flame out.
514 yeast. Made to 23litres
Fermented at 20C in fermenter for 14days.


FYI, Goodies pack is from my LHBS, has dex/ldm/dry corn syrup

Ivan.


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## Jay Cee (20/6/12)

I'm going to show someone how to pimp a can on his stovetop with grains & hop additions, and run through the technical theory before showing him how to brew all-grain. I'm unfamiliar with making beer using cans, so can someone tell me how Coopers calculate their stted IBU. If I were to use a light kit such as the Cerveza at a stated 270 IBU, what's the actual IBU ? I'm certain that the division is by batch size, but how many litres do they determine to be a standard ferment? 21? 23? other?


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## Nick JD (20/6/12)

Jay Cee said:


> I'm going to show someone how to pimp a can on his stovetop with grains & hop additions, and run through the technical theory before showing him how to brew all-grain. I'm unfamiliar with making beer using cans, so can someone tell me how Coopers calculate their stted IBU. If I were to use a light kit such as the Cerveza at a stated 270 IBU, what's the actual IBU ? I'm certain that the division is by batch size, but how many litres do they determine to be a standard ferment? 21? 23? other?



Depends how many litres your batch is. 

270/23 = 11 IBUs

270/19 = 14 IBUs 

Either way - bloody flavourless! So bang on!


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## Jay Cee (20/6/12)

Ok, so that's the approach. I suspected as much

Flavourless is good for this project, I think. I'll have him throwing fistfulls of centennial & cascade at it to create the hop profile.


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## The Village Idiot (20/6/12)

whatwhat said:


> Would have to say that the bishops English bitter is a top drop. Normally i would use a liquid burtons yeast with it.
> 
> If your are allowing cider into the equation then the mangrove jacks apple cider is worth a shout.
> 
> Just my opinion




There seems to be quite a few people that mention the Bishops Bitter as a good kit....... keen to try this one, anyone got a good recipe??


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## tricache (20/6/12)

Wow why didn't I find this thread before...this is great and gives me even more ideas for my next brew


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## emnpaul (20/6/12)

Nick JD said:


> Depends how many litres your batch is.
> 
> 270/23 = 11 IBUs
> 
> ...




As it is a weight to volume dilution you need to first multiply by your kit's weight, then divide by volume. 

I.e: 270(ibu) X 1.7(kg) = 459 Then 459/23 = 19.957 IBU


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## Nick JD (21/6/12)

emnpaul said:


> As it is a weight to volume dilution you need to first multiply by your kit's weight, then divide by volume.
> 
> I.e: 270(ibu) X 1.7(kg) = 459 Then 459/23 = 19.957 IBU



It's per kg, not per can?


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## bum (21/6/12)

That is definitely correct for Coopers kits.


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## Bribie G (21/6/12)

I've had quite a bit of success pimping up Cerveza and Canadian cans. Someone gave me a tin of Cerveza a year or so back and it made a good lawnmower with no kit twang. I cereal mashed a kilo of polenta with half a kilo of BB Ale malt, did a mini BIAB in the stockpot and boiled the results with some Galena, and brought the whole thing up to strength with some dex.


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## tricache (21/6/12)

And here I was thinking it would a rubbish kit...looks like a good "foundation" kit


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## drsmurto (21/6/12)

Prior to moving to AG the last dozen kits i brewed were all using the same base kit to which i added specialty grain and hops and used a good dry yeast.

The base kit was Coopers Lager. I brewed english ales, APAs, stouts and porters. I actually won a competition with a kit beer and beat several AG brewers. The judges were gobsmacked that the beer that won and the others i entered that placed were kit beers.

Recently i snuck a kit beer, the first i had brewed in 5 years, into a local case swap. I didn't tell anyone that it was a kit beer and received a lot of positive feedback. It was a sneaky attempt by me to get some blind judging and unbiased feedback on a kit beer. A lot of brewers on this site will poo poo kit brewers but very few would actually be able to pick it in a blind tasting (at least, that is my current theory). When i let the cat out of the bag (airlock) the lads were a little shocked. I did use Coopers sparkling ale as a base instead of the lager, added extra extract, crystal malt and roasted malt plus colombus hops. And a liquid yeast. 

What may surprise people more is that the result of this has me thinking that when i am time poor (more often than not), I will happily brew another kit beer. I have ordered the extract already.

My golden ale started out life as a kit beer and the recipe for it is in the notes section below the AG recipe - Link

I noticed yesterday that the recipe for it and my Landlord are in ianh's kit spreadsheet, something i was not aware of.


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## tricache (21/6/12)

DrSmurto said:


> Prior to moving to AG the last dozen kits i brewed were all using the same base kit to which i added specialty grain and hops and used a good dry yeast.
> 
> The base kit was Coopers Lager. I brewed english ales, APAs, stouts and porters. I actually won a competition with a kit beer and beat several AG brewers. The judges were gobsmacked that the beer that won and the others i entered that placed were kit beers.
> 
> ...



That is actually very good to hear. I thought about if that was possible to basically combine the schools of brewing and as I have found there aren't that many rules when it comes to brewing; if you dream it, you can brew it.


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## RobboMC (21/6/12)

When my last child was very young and my wife worked nights I was extremely time poor. Still am mind you.
In the immortal words of a fellow brewer; " better to have bottles full of kit beer than empty bottles and nothing to drink"

I used to make a batch of 'dump and stir' Dark Ale on the kitchen bench in 20 min while I cooked dinner. The Muntons 3kg kits are pretty good as well, though not cheap.

And it's amazing what you can do with a single kg of steeped grain folowed by a 15 min boil, and a kit.

I once got a Highly Comended at a brew comp with a Nut Brown Ale kit beer; and I've just bottled a new NBA recipe
that is even better than that one. 

There's a long way from a simple dump and stir to a full blown 'kits n lots of bits' masterpiece, but masterpiece's that include a kit are a shortcut to success.


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## hirns (8/9/12)

Bribie G said:


> I've had quite a bit of success pimping up Cerveza and Canadian cans. Someone gave me a tin of Cerveza a year or so back and it made a good lawnmower with no kit twang. I cereal mashed a kilo of polenta with half a kilo of BB Ale malt, did a mini BIAB in the stockpot and boiled the results with some Galena, and brought the whole thing up to strength with some dex.



Bribie, what yeast did you use when you did this!


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## Blitzer (8/9/12)

Is the Cooper Canadian Blonde a lager or an ale?


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## Orangewhip (9/9/12)

I'm only a rank amateur but my best k&k has been the Cascade Spicy Ghost (draught) with half dme and half dextrose after 12 weeks in the bottle.


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## ash2 (10/9/12)

Glad i found this thread some good ideas here for a brew or two,my pic is a TC.Pils using the Czech Pilsener recipe on Coops website it is a nice drop going to be putting my 3rd down this week.


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## yum beer (10/9/12)

Thats a nice picture Ash.


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## JakeSm (10/9/12)

:icon_offtopic: how exactly is polenta used in the mashing process and does it give any flavours or self convert into sugar??

cheers jake.


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