# 3v Upgrade



## geneabovill (24/4/14)

Having most of the required parts (I think) for an electric 3V system, it's time to begin the upgrade.

First up: I'm currently brewing on a recirc BIAB system - PID controller, 40L urn, little brown pump for recirc. It serves me well, makes excellent beer. 

I want to upgrade to a system that's going to give me a touch more repeatability, and more room for higher gravity beers. Ideally want single tier, pump operated and as automatic as possible. 

I brew indoors, so gas isn't a viable option.

I've read through just about every brewery build thread I could find, and while they're great, I think I need to see one or two in action so I can watch the brewing in situ and get my head around the more subtle differences (if any) between 1V and 3V. The obvious differences are... well, obvious.

Are there any Newcastle or Port Stephens brewers with a 3V system who wouldn't mind me sitting in on a brew day and asking a ton of questions? 

Also, if there are links to particularly helpful threads, websites or even to retailers who have useful bits of kit, that would be good too.

I'll use this thread to keep a record of the build, and keep AHB updated on my progress. 

Thanks guys, 

GB.


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## Natdene (24/4/14)

I noticed yesterday in the keg king catalog on the last page they are now selling a full 3v system and a few notes on how to use their system, it might give you a few ideas.


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## Yob (24/4/14)

Won't you be looking at HERMS or rims then? If you want to pump recirc you'll need to manage the wort temps.


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## geneabovill (24/4/14)

Yeah, that's where I come unstuck Yob. At the moment I recirc the whole mash, using the element in the urn for a heat source, rather than an external eat source as in RIMS or HERMS.

I'd like HERMS (because I have an 8L urn and a PID) so I can step mash relatively easily. And I'd like to upgrade to a programmable ramp and soak PID for consistency. 

And then incorporate the other PID into the HLT for strike temp. Does that make sense?


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## geneabovill (24/4/14)

And thanks for the tip Natdene. I'll check it out.


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## Yob (24/4/14)

Ruckus said:


> Yeah, that's where I come unstuck Yob. At the moment I recirc the whole mash, using the element in the urn for a heat source, rather than an external eat source as in RIMS or HERMS.
> 
> I'd like HERMS (because I have an 8L urn and a PID) so I can step mash relatively easily. And I'd like to upgrade to a programmable ramp and soak PID for consistency.
> 
> And then incorporate the other PID into the HLT for strike temp. Does that make sense?


Sure does, have you haad a look through the Dedicated HERMS thread? 

54 Pages now... thatll keep you out of trouble for a bit :lol:


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## dicko (24/4/14)

Sound like you only need a Herms coil.
You may look at the one that Gryphon Brewing sell.

He is a sponsor on here so if you search members for the above you should get a link to his shop.

Good luck with the build


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## jonnir (24/4/14)

Is rims and herms really only used for quicker ramp times?

If you were able to recirculate with a 3600 or 4800 watt element would herms or rims be necessary?


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## geneabovill (24/4/14)

Yob said:


> Sure does, have you haad a look through the Dedicated HERMS thread?
> 
> 54 Pages now... thatll keep you out of trouble for a bit :lol:


Yep, been following that thread since I joined.. Very interesting stuff. 

I guess HERMS is one of the parts of the build that I'm pretty confident in. Considering that I use a RIMSesque system now, the concepts aren't too foreign for me to comprehend.

So, my current thinking goes thus:

1. PID controlled HLT for strike water/sparge. That can be done with my manual PID, with a ramp up to sparge temp occurring simultaneously with the mash. The timing can be played with/adjusted as I go. Have a little brown pump that I could recirc strike water with to ensure even temp throughout. Was thinking of a T-piece with thermowell to feedback temps to the PID. 

2. Pump strike water to MT and dough in, recirc through HERMS to maintain mash temps. (Will need march pump, HERMS coil and ramp/soak PID. Step mash as dictated by the style/recipe.

3. Pump mash to BK, vorlauf, and fly sparge. (Please don't hijack this thread and make it about fly vs. batch sparging). Will need another pump for this. 

4. Boil as usual, chill, ferment, drink.


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## Yob (24/4/14)

Sounds like a good plan... especially the last bit..


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## TheWiggman (24/4/14)

Ruckus said:
 

> Yeah, that's where I come unstuck Yob. At the moment I recirc the whole mash, using the element in the urn for a heat source, rather than an external eat source as in RIMS or HERMS.
> 
> I'd like HERMS (because I have an 8L urn and a PID) so I can step mash relatively easily. And I'd like to upgrade to a programmable ramp and soak PID for consistency.
> 
> And then incorporate the other PID into the HLT for strike temp. Does that make sense?


Makes perfect sense and is what most do.

For fly or batch sparging, gravity can do the job for you. Seeing as you're going 3V, you can configure your system like mine and just run it straight through the HERMS. Many do it this way. Note too the second PID next to the HLT.







For brew day, I put the water into the MT and just turn on the HERMS and pump. 30-45 mins later you're at strike temp, no need to pre-heat then transfer.

Regarding Nev's HERM-IT coil, I did the maths on it and it works out to be as about as economical as any solution. Say you want to convert your old vessel and are buying everything new -

1 x ball valve $25
2 x stainless washers and silicone O-rings $14
3m copper coil $20
2 Disconnect sets, M + F $40
90° compression fitting $28
Straight compression fitting $25
T-peice $6
Thermowell $24
Red pain and racing stripes optional

You're at >$185 and you haven't even drilled a hole yet. The complete HERM-IT coil will set you back $180, $7.50 for the kettle, and another $25 in PVC and, complete, you have a smaller unit that ramps faster for about $215. Plus it's stainless.
The little bits add up fast and you don't realise it until you open your wallet (that's brewing though huh?). I also expect some free products from Nev for my constant plugging, but in all honesty some quick forum trolling will attest to the performance of these units.


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## geneabovill (24/4/14)

So HLT for sparge water only? That makes sense, and means I could get away with using my urn for the HLT, and save the expense of another element, ball valve, etc..


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## geneabovill (21/7/14)

Update: forked out a fair bit of coin today on brewing gear: pumps, silicone hoses, QDs, a beer gun, among other things.. 

Went with a turkey broiler (HUGE gas burner) for the boil as I wasn't satisfied that my 10amp would get a decent boil going.

Now to learn how to weld to build the single tier stand. 0.o


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