# Is Animal Feed Grain Fit for Human Consumption



## thumbsucker (30/7/16)

I often used un malted grains like wheat in my brewing and I am wondering if Animal Feed Grain could be used in beer?

The cost of normal un malted grain is in the $50 to $60 range for a 25kg sack.

A bag of animal feed costs as little as $15 for a 25kg sack.

Is there anything in animal feed that would poison humans?

As far as I can tell grain for human consumption has been strained more for stones and such. Also human grade is sprayed with chemicals to keep insects at bay making the animal feed prone to infestation.


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## Yob (30/7/16)

ask Hoppy2B


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## Kingy (30/7/16)

I've used corn In another hobby before where I fermented on the grains . After fermentation had finished the insects float to the top. I'd imagine if you where to buy cheap animal grains it would have these little bugs in there. Not something I'd like in my beer. All tho your efficiency may go up if they where step mashed and you could get good attenuation if it turns bad and may even end up with a nice sour. I wouldn't eat animal feed so there is no way I'd make beer from it.


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## wynnum1 (30/7/16)

If Champion mare _Winx_ gets sick from eating the same animal food and you get sick i know which one will be the biggest headlines just make sure its not imported.


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## thumbsucker (30/7/16)

Thanks for the input I will give it a pass then.


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## Ducatiboy stu (30/7/16)

There is nothing wrong will animal feed per say

The only real issue is they tend to be low spec grains so their performance will be lower

Animal feeds are generally held in seal vessels or bags so insects wont be a problem. They are all handled thru the same process ( and equipment ) at harvest through to their final point

Feed wheat would be Ok, but feed barlley is not suitable for malting as the specs for protiens/enzymes etc is much lower



thumbsucker said:


> As far as I can tell grain for human consumption has been strained more for stones and such. Also human grade is sprayed with chemicals to keep insects at bay making the animal feed prone to infestation.


Yes, well....that says a lot


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## MHB (30/7/16)

If you are making beer, feed grade grain is not a good choice.
Brewing grade barley is breed and grown to meet very tight specifications, the most obvious one being low protein but it has to meet a bunch of other criteria to. Feed grade is purposefully selected to be high in protein, the exact opposite of what we want to make beer. Worth noting that as protein up goes extract yield goes down.

On the economics of using feed grade, I think that if work through the numbers it isn't a big enough saving to worth the cost in beer quality, if how good your beer tastes matters more than what it costs you to get pissed.

Say you were using 30% unmalted adjunct, just using a rough 1kg of malt makes 5L of beer, you can buy decent malt for $62/bag call it $2.50/kg
If you were using 30% adjunct you would still need 70% of the $2.50 so $1.75
Add the 300g of $15/bag adjunct ($0.60/Kg) so $0.18 for a total of $1.93.
You save $0.57/5L, 11.4 cents/L or $2.62 for a 23L batch

To me its pretty poor economics - to deliberately reduce the quality of your beer to save something like 5 cents a schooner isn't a sane option to me.

The above ignores the fact that you get lower yield from feed grade, it's a lot harder to crack properly, being higher in protein, glucans and gels it will be harder/slower to lauter, it will probably need either boiling or a step mash to get the most out of it... remember that Energy can costs more than malt.
If you need to be that tight, improve your efficiency a couple of percent, use better insulation to save on energy, look at system losses.
All pretty simple ways to reduce the cost of beer without reducing the quality.
Mark


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## Benn (30/7/16)

Mooooooooooooo


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## Ducatiboy stu (30/7/16)

What MHB is saying is that from a pure cost point of view it is not cheaper in the long run and your beer wont be as good


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## Feldon (30/7/16)

A family member who works in the grain trade tells me that the single most important spec for malt grade barley is its ability to germinate uniformally. Ideally malsters want all the grain to germinate simultaneously during the malting process, rather than have it happen adhoc over several days. That said, Chinese breweries buy ship loads of Australian feed grade barley. How they process it is a bit of a mystery but the assumption is they use synthetic enzymes to help convert the starch into sugars.


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## MHB (30/7/16)

Ever tasted a good Chinese beer?
M


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## Feldon (30/7/16)

Define "good".


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## MHB (30/7/16)

good = I want another one


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## Feldon (30/7/16)

Oops, you've just drifted from objective science to subjective opinion.


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## MHB (30/7/16)

Yes I know that, but personal taste is entirely subjective, I don't like pork fat either nor little tined fish (with a hall pass for a really well made Cesar Salad).
I could point to a bunch of scientific reasons why most of the beer from China could be regarded as crap (in fact most mainstream Asian beers) wouldn't change what I think of them. I don't enjoy them.
Same applies to MGD, Bud, Tooheys, VB, XXXX... all for the same reasons, they might be technical well made but to me its like those perfect long stem roses without any bouquet - just plain wrong! 
Mark


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## Zorco (30/7/16)

TIL MHB has a romantic edge....


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## Lyrebird_Cycles (30/7/16)

Feldon said:


> A family member who works in the grain trade tells me that the single most important spec for malt grade barley is its ability to germinate uniformally. Ideally malsters want all the grain to germinate simultaneously during the malting process, rather than have it happen adhoc over several days. That said, Chinese breweries buy ship loads of Australian feed grade barley. How they process it is a bit of a mystery but the assumption is they use synthetic enzymes to help convert the starch into sugars.


Not so sure about this; germinative energy is used as a screening method, partly to check for dormancy so the barley isn't transported to the maltings prematurely. It's much better for the grain to stay in the farm silos or the grain factor's storage as maltings generally only have enough barley storage capacity for a few days' production. It may simply be that the Chinese are prepared to skip this on the grounds that they can winter it themselves.

The main reason Asian beers are the way they are is that they mostly rely on imported malt, which is very expensive. If malt is $500/ tonne and sugar is $50, you use as little malt as you can.


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## Coldspace (30/7/16)

I love MHBs maths, keep it up old mate ,
Stuff the crap beer!! Abit like, **** the "Rib on the Bone steak" I wan a tin of pal, just make sure it's in gravey , or wait a minute, chum, sooo chunky you can carve it., yummy .

Main reason I brew my own.

Was directed at crap beer, from overseas, and maybe some local ones as well....

Had a few Ris's tonight ,!!,,


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## technobabble66 (30/7/16)

Coldspace said:


> Had a few Ris's tonight ,!!,,


Should've started with that 
[emoji185]
[emoji1]


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## Ducatiboy stu (31/7/16)

Lyrebird_Cycles said:


> Not so sure about this; germinative energy is used as a screening method, partly to check for dormancy so the barley isn't transported to the maltings prematurely. It's much better for the grain to stay in the farm silos or the grain factor's storage as maltings generally only have enough barley storage capacity for a few days' production. It may simply be that the Chinese are prepared to skip this on the grounds that they can winter it themselves.
> 
> The main reason Asian beers are the way they are is that they mostly rely on imported malt, which is very expensive. If malt is $500/ tonne and sugar is $50, you use as little malt as you can.


Lot of truth in that

If you have ever seen Jo White malting plant in Tamworth you would understand

Its not that big... its actually rather small compared to the other mills in the town ( which is where your flour comes from...24/7 mills )

And yes, grain is actually held/stored/bunkered until needed and dormancy has a lot to do with it. Green wheat/barley/ aint worth shit until it is stored for a few months

I have worked in the grain belts of North NSW ...Werris Creek has one of the biggest grain terminals going up north

I have worked in the grain belts of South NSW, Junee has the biggest terminal in NSW

Grain would actually get stored for months depending on need

Both those towns had grain bunkers you could count in acres in peak season


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## Coldspace (31/7/16)

technobabble66 said:


> Should've started with that
> [emoji185]
> [emoji1]


Yeah, ended the night on Ris, bloody terrible stuff, not. Feeling abit shabby smorning.


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## sstacey (31/7/16)

Unmalted feed grade wheat is fine for belgium wit beers or lambics. Unlikely to be bug issues if you use it relatively quickly. Just buy enough for the brew. I have used it plenty of times.


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## sp0rk (1/8/16)

I use feed grade corn and raw wheat in another hobby and find it's just fine
However I've used that same corn in a cereal mash for a cream ale and it tasted like I'd poured creamed corn in the beer, so I will be sticking to Polenta as per Bribie's recommendation.
I also use feed grade black strap molasses in other hobbies, and in my beer
A couple of my Scottish and English ales have small amounts of molasses in them, all of which have fared pretty well in comps


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## wynnum1 (1/8/16)

Corn is processed with lime Nixtamalization do they do that to Polenta.


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## Matplat (1/8/16)

I've gotta admit, that 'Lucky Beer" was pretty good last time I drank it... Stupid bottles though.


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## mash head (1/8/16)

There are many reasons that barley gets down graded to F1 or feed type barley, it should be still fit for human consumption as long as its been handled correctly.
I have been down graded to feed grade in the past because of an over supply of malt grade in the market and the buyers just dont need to pay the extra for the grain and they know that most farmers cant store shitloads of grain themselves until markets improve.
I use my own unmalted grain or that of my neighbours in some of my brews but I have a good idea of the protien content due to paddock history and fert applications.
All grain recieval sites have testing facillities and could tell you if your grain was F1, F2 or malting grade, I used to commonly take small samples of grain to be tested to them because if it doesnt make malting grade its actually more lucrative to sell it to a local farmer as feed grain rather than recieval sites.
I have been playing around with malting lately but drying/kilning the grain is a PITA and would require some equipment when doing more than a few killos, I tried to malt about 50-100 kg and the germination side was easy, the drying not so.
I would be looking to buy the grain off a farmer where you can ask questions re its storage and handling re chemical useage and buy a good quantity so you can maintain consistency. Look for a good sample of consistant sized grains without stain and with out too many other contaminants eg other seeds or insect debris.


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## sp0rk (1/8/16)

wynnum1 said:


> Corn is processed with lime Nixtamalization do they do that to Polenta.


Do they do that with feed grade corn?
Whenever I've asked at CRT, they say it's not treated, just cracked


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## Ducatiboy stu (1/8/16)

Nixtamalization is a whole different ball game

It is used to make Horminy, then ground to become Masa flour, than used for tortilla's etc

Nixtamalization is a maize treatment

It is not used for polenta ( which can be made from a number of different starchy ingredients like farro, chestnut flour, millet, spelt, and chickpeas )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixtamalization


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