# Cheap and water efficient wort chiller setup?



## RRising (12/5/20)

I want to make a wort chiller but not make it so i waste a lot of tap water, i rent and have to pay water usage, brew days uses up a lot of water as it is. I have seen counterflow chillers but still have the same water wastage problem.

I have the immersion chiller that came with my Robobrew and tried to use it to pump the wort through the chiller in an esky of ice water but it wasn't as efficient as i liked and warmed the ice water up pretty quickly and had to hot cube because i ran out of ice. You live and learn.

I want to make a system where i can pump and recirculate ice water through the chiller, i feel that the water having less contact with the hot wort will make the heat transfer a little more efficient as the water is in contact with the hot wort for a short amount of time.

Would this be feasible or should i just stick with hot cubing which isn't really a big deal?


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## MHB (12/5/20)

What makes heat transfer quick is the difference between the wort and the cooling water.
If we are just talking about an immersion chiller. It might sound counter intuitive but the slower the coolant flow the more efficient as the coolant has time to warm up taking heat out of the wort, this happens faster when the wort is hotter.
Say at the start your wort is at 90oC and your tap water is at 20oC there is a large gradient (90-20=70oC) but as the wort gets cooler there is less gradient and the heat moves from the wort to the water slower.
You only need enough flow so the coolant is coming out at about the same temperature as the wort.
That saves water but takes a long time.
Once the wort is down to say 40oC, your gradient has dropped to 20oC and it takes a very slow flow give the coolant time to warm up
About this time its starting to look like its going to take forever, about now most people crank up the flow, which will make it cool a bit faster, but uses lots of water.
Alternative is to get that gradient back up by cooling the tap water. Lots of options, a pump in the bottom of an esky full of water and ice, a second immersion chiller in the same esky. Getting the cooling water down to say 5oC would give you a 35oC gradient so it starts cooling down pretty fast again, without using too much water.

A coil of 1/2" copper (just like your immersion chiller but copper) that the tap water can flow through early on and when the wort gets too cool can be stuck into the esky/bucket of ice and water to act as a pre-chiller appears to be a pretty good all round solution.

Mind you, you are trading water use against electricity for making ice, personally I'm far from sure which is the cheapest answer.
Mark

Before someone has a kitten, yes faster flows will cool slightly faster, but will use heaps more water, which wasnt the question being asked.
M


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## MaggieO (13/5/20)

I do the ice in a bucket with a pump system.

I use tap water to get down to 110F then add ice to a bucket of water and pump it through my chiller down to 68F. Ice water gets recirculated. I found this was the best compromise between cooling efficiency and reducing wasted water.


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## razz (13/5/20)

I have found agitation of the wort will also speed up cooling time RR. I don’t use a Robobrew but I’m guessing that you can recirc the wort back into the boiler while the chiller is doing it’s thing?


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## RRising (14/5/20)

Thank you for the ideas but i think i'll stick to hot cubing for now, it's not that big of a deal, i just have to wait to the next day to transfer it to my fermenter.


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## Fro-Daddy (14/5/20)

The HYDRA™ - World's Fastest Immersion Wort Chiller


JaDeD Brewing is proud to offer home brewers the Hydra™; the world’s fastest immersion wort chiller! This chiller is faster than most plate chillers and will chill a 5 gallon batch from boiling to 68F in just 3 minutes using only 18 gallons of 58F tap water with three 25' sections of 3/8"...




jadedbrewing.com





Can buy this or try and make something similar.
They claim from boil to 20°C in 3 minutes on a 20L batch.


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## Grmblz (14/5/20)

Just to state the obvious (maybe not to everyone) ss is not a very good conductor of heat, other things to consider of course, just sayin.


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## BrewLizard (14/5/20)

I've tried the pre-chiller idea, with a copper coil in an ice bath, but found I needed slow flows to chill the tap water before it went into the wort (where faster flow = faster cooling). It was also a mess, having to have two chillers and 3 hoses.

I've since silver-soldered my two chillers together into a messy ball (2 parallel paths), and I run tap water through at full bore into a bucket to get my temp down to 50°C in a few minutes, then I unplug my water input from the tap and recirculate it with a submersible pump in an ice bath.
Phase 1: tap -> chiller in wort -> discard bucket
Phase 2: ice bath -> chiller in wort -v
.....................^-------------------------|

End result = fast chilling, a 20 L bucket full of hot water that I can use for cleaning, and a sink full of cool (now warm) water.

Of course, you have to prepare about 5 days in advance to make enough ice. If you buy ice for this, you're wasting money.


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## dkril (14/5/20)

Fro-Daddy said:


> The HYDRA™ - World's Fastest Immersion Wort Chiller
> 
> 
> JaDeD Brewing is proud to offer home brewers the Hydra™; the world’s fastest immersion wort chiller! This chiller is faster than most plate chillers and will chill a 5 gallon batch from boiling to 68F in just 3 minutes using only 18 gallons of 58F tap water with three 25' sections of 3/8"...
> ...


Looks like 4 coils in parallel. I wonder what the total length of tube is? Any idea what size fittings it takes/comes with? Or what material it's made from?


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## RRising (14/5/20)

Grmblz said:


> Just to state the obvious (maybe not to everyone) ss is not a very good conductor of heat, other things to consider of course, just sayin.



I understand the concept of heat transfer but my stainless steel chiller did a good job of conducting the hot wort, enough that it nearly melted the ice i had in my esky instantly. It did knock off about 40°C from the wort before it equalised and i ran out of ice.


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## BrewLizard (15/5/20)

Stainless steel is a significantly better conductor of heat than wort (or water) itself, so it works just fine.

SS makes lousy heatsinks compared to copper or aluminium, but that doesn't really matter in this application.


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## wide eyed and legless (15/5/20)

RRising said:


> I understand the concept of heat transfer but my stainless steel chiller did a good job of conducting the hot wort, enough that it nearly melted the ice i had in my esky instantly. It did knock off about 40°C from the wort before it equalised and i ran out of ice.


You could try filling some 1 or 2 litre pet bottles to get a larger ice mass, other than that brew in the afternoon or evening, when finished put the lid on spray some sanitiser around the lid, wrao with some cling wrap and fill your fermenter in the morning. Saves mucking around with cubes.


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## Fro-Daddy (15/5/20)

dkril said:


> Looks like 4 coils in parallel. I wonder what the total length of tube is? Any idea what size fittings it takes/comes with? Or what material it's made from?


Solid brass garden hose connectors.
I assume copper, but they also have a stainless version.


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## RRising (15/5/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> You could try filling some 1 or 2 litre pet bottles to get a larger ice mass, other than that brew in the afternoon or evening, when finished put the lid on spray some sanitiser around the lid, wrao with some cling wrap and fill your fermenter in the morning. Saves mucking around with cubes.



That's not a bad idea but i haven't had any issues with hot cubing in a 20L jerry can though.

I did get the idea of setting up a pond pump in a esky and pumping icy water through the chiller, im going to do a proof of concept this weekend with an old fish tank pump to see if its powerful enough.

Bunnings has pond pumps with variable flow rates.


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## wide eyed and legless (15/5/20)

RRising said:


> That's not a bad idea but i haven't had any issues with hot cubing in a 20L jerry can though.


Not saying you have had a problem with the cubing just suggesting an alternative without using a cube, you will also have the advantage of a clear wort into the fermenter.


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## draakken (15/5/20)

dkril said:


> Looks like 4 coils in parallel. I wonder what the total length of tube is? Any idea what size fittings it takes/comes with? Or what material it's made from?



have one, it has US garden hose fittings for input/output. No idea on the length of tube. Its all copper.

A review here, with some cooling times vs volume The Hydra Immersion Chiller by JaDeD Brewing | Product Review


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## Willigofasta (16/5/20)

A mate told me of a friend who puts his cube in a swimming pool for quick chilling. No wasting of water. I'm going to try that. Meanwhile I run water from my 5000 litre rainwater tank through a chiller coil and the outlet goes back into the tank. 90 C down to mid 20s in about 30 minutes. Only cost is running the pump. No water wasted.


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## draakken (16/5/20)

use a submersible pump to run the pool water through the hydra. Zero water use and you'll be down to pool temps in < 10 min


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## RRising (16/5/20)

wide eyed and legless said:


> Not saying you have had a problem with the cubing just suggesting an alternative without using a cube, you will also have the advantage of a clear wort into the fermenter.



Absolutely, i just did a test with an old fish tank pump and some tubing and it was pumping beautifully although i had to prime it by sucking water up to the first peak but once it reached it, it created a siphon and gravity did the rest.

I might just use the fish tank pump, so i can have it loose in the cooler so i can just lift it out and replace the water once temps have equalised and replace with more ice/water.


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## CyriusBrew (16/5/20)

draakken said:


> have one, it has US garden hose fittings for input/output. No idea on the length of tube. Its all copper.
> 
> A review here, with some cooling times vs volume The Hydra Immersion Chiller by JaDeD Brewing | Product Review



Those JaDed chillers are bloody nice. They can really handle a lot of water going through. However, I just bough 15 meter of copper tubing, and wrapped it around a pipe then brazed brass hose fittings on it. It really works a treat in my 3 vessel setup. In the Guten I am just using the SS chiller that came with it since my copper one does not fit.

I keep wondering about no chill...How do you prevent all of your hops from basically becoming bittering hops? It seems like it would be a bit of work to get your 0 minute addition flavours. Then again, being able to reduce time on the brew day is quite tempting.


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## Horatio (16/5/20)

So if you're happy with hot cubing and having to wait till the next day to pitch yeast then stick with it.

On the other hand if you want to wrap up brew day on brew day including pitching yeast then go the pond pump in esky with ice bath recirculating through the IC. I only use this once the wort hits approx 30c as you'll melt the ice and warm the water in no time. I just premake a few ice blocks using takeaway containers a few day earlier.

This is how I now chill my wort. I also recapture the tap water I use with my IC into my water tanks. I understand you're renting and this might not be an option, just thought I'd share for others.

I brewed a few weeks back in Melbourne and it took me approx 40mins to get my wort to 18c. 20mins or so using tap water then another 20 mins with the pond pump esky ice bath recirculation going.

Oh and get a pump off ebay not the big green shed. They cost less and are more powerful.

My 2c. Hope it helps.


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## BrewLizard (16/5/20)

I second everything Horatio said. Also, overspec your eBay pump a bit. I got a 1500 L/h one, but that must be when it's running downhill without a hose connected. It's about 4-6 L/min (240-360 L/h) through my small wort chiller. For you guys doing full-sized batches, get the nominal 6000 L/h ones.


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## Horatio (16/5/20)

Agree with BrewLizard about overpsecing your pump. I bought this 3000L/H model and its more than sufficient with my copper IC. It also doubles as a pump for my keg/fermenter cleaner.









HJ-3000 Water Pump, 3000L/H Sunsun Submersible Pump For Aquarium Fish Tank Pond | eBay


PE+EVA Truck Mat. Baby Carrier in AU Warehouse. Paking included: one pump + one au plug. Rear Trunck Mat. Outside Sport. In AU Sydney Warehouse. Fishing Tool. Cable length：2.3m.



www.ebay.com.au


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## Blackman (17/5/20)

I'm another one that just recirculates from rain water tank. Heated water out of chiller through garden hose out the door and clamped in the spout. Takes about 30-40 minutes.


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## Droopy Brew (24/5/20)

Firstly, what is the cost of the water? $3 a kL or there abouts?
If you are doing this purely for a cost saving measure then do a basic cost benefit analysis. At a flow rate of 10l/min (which is on the high side, Id usually run at half that) and you are chilling for say 40 minutes (again, about double what I do with water at 25-30C in NQ) then you are using 400L or about $1.20.
How much is a pump going to cost you? Lets say for easy calculation $36 and lets say that allows you to halve your water usage (60c per brew day). It will take you 60 brews to break even.

So from a cost perspective it makes absolutely no sense to try to minimise your water use to save $ on water alone. From an environmental perspective it is a worthy idea.

To maximise cost savings on water and also make a little saving on electricity/gas, you could chill through a traditional chiller and run the water which is now warmed, into the bath and have a wash up after brew day. Sprinkle in some Sodium perc bath salts and you can jump in with your brew gear and give it a wash at the same time, nothing like shiney stainless and shiney balls


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## Horatio (24/5/20)

From a pure cost benefit analysis you are on point.

If you want to chill your wort to pitch temp using an esky ice pump setup then that's why you'd buy the pump. And get brew day finished without waiting till it chills the next day.


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## Droopy Brew (24/5/20)

Horatio said:


> From a pure cost benefit analysis you are on point.
> 
> If you want to chill your wort to pitch temp using an ice bath then that's why you'd buy the pump. And get brew day finished without waiting till it chills the next day.


I get mine to tap temp which in Townsville will range from 23c in winter to 31C in summer. This chills to a point that locks in isomerisation. I then putthe fermenter in the temp controlled freezer and am down to 18C in a couple of hours so pitch then. I use an upright freezer to ferment so it gets it down pretty quick, a 30yr old kelvinator might take a lot longer so I guess it depends upon your fermentation chamber. Still, ******* about with ice and a pump would have me reaching for the cubes pretty quick but to each their own.


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## BrewLizard (24/5/20)

Just did my 2nd brew with the ice water pump and wouldn’t look back. It just makes the painful part of 40->27 so much faster.


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## nanuk (25/5/20)

I am lucky my tap water is very cold. (I'm on my own well) I can tweek the drain to leak, set my kettle in the sink, fill almost overflowing with water, then adjust to maintain a level.
I can chill from boiling to pitching temp in about 20 minutes.

But being lazy, the No Chill is an option I'd like to explore.

Also, I have wondered about a wet towel and a big fan.
Spritz bottle to keep moist... and let physics help.


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## Grmblz (25/5/20)

I wonder how many of us (Aus) are on tank water?
I have 120,000L storage, and late last year had to buy water for the first time, $350 for 13,000L, no teenage daughters (thank heavens they've grown up and gone) just me n the missus, and occasional visits from the kids.
Water is something many of us take for granted, we shouldn't.


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