# The Grainfather



## vittorio

new wana be braumesiter called the grainmaster. check it out, it looks insane! http://www.grainfather.com/


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## Online Brewing Supplies

I like it, 
Wonder if it makes Fush and Chups ?


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## Florian

Fush is easy, not sure about the Chups...

No step mashing, did I see that right?

EDIT: Also, OP, how did you possibly get the name so dramatically wrong, when it is plastered all over the website?


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## Tahoose

Hmm wonder how much???


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## manticle

Topic title edited.


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## Not For Horses

Thanks MTV, for pimping my urn!

Looks like a great system. Well done fellas. If you're reading this.


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## wide eyed and legless

Florian said:


> Fush is easy, not sure about the Chups...
> 
> No step mashing, did I see that right?
> 
> EDIT: Also, OP, how did you possibly get the name so dramatically wrong, when it is plastered all over the website?


I reckon from a marketing point of view Grainmaster would have been better than Grainfather.


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## Online Brewing Supplies

Oh and do sous vide too , well I think it can ?
If they price it well under the German equivalent I think it will sell well.
I will get one to try out if its cheaper.
Nev


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## DU99

wonder if i have to rewire the shed to run..i watch the video and it has another purpose than making beer


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## Tahoose

Should run on 10amp surely??


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## dicko

It may very well be in competition with this one


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## djar007

Interesting find dicko. Wonder what the price on those will be.


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## Cocko

Always the question, never the advertised...

EMMA CHISSET?!?!?


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## dicko

djar007 said:


> Interesting find dicko. Wonder what the price on those will be.


I dont know mate... they look interesting though..

I like the stand under the 50


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## Batz

Then the Chinese version.


http://beercooler.en.alibaba.com/product/514778542-213105112/homebrew_craft_beer_equipments.html


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## dicko

Batz said:


> Then the Chinese version.
> 
> 
> http://beercooler.en.alibaba.com/product/514778542-213105112/homebrew_craft_beer_equipments.html


The mind boggles Batz....the "Great Wall" in brewing equipment.


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## Spiesy

Online Brewing Supplies said:


> If they price it well under the German equivalent I think it will sell well.


Looks a little "apples and oranges" to me.


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## wide eyed and legless

The Chinese one is called the Pimpernel, it is the most elusive product to track down when I eventually did track it down I purchased on line for $850 US and he then wanted $1500 said the price it was advertised for was wrong.
I do believe Keg King did bring one in, I keep at an eye on the trade fairs in China to see when they are having a home brewing one, I wouldn't mind going over.


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## djar007

I got it wide eyed. The keg king one. Needed a lot of work. Poorly made. But it is working well now. Needed a complete rebuild from plumbing to elements to electronics.


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## wide eyed and legless

Was it the one pictured?


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## djar007

Sure was. On a plane now but will post pics when I land in a few hours


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## wide eyed and legless

Thanks djar.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

Whereabouts are the trade fairs in China you're going to WE&L? Contemplating an Asian holiday (finances permitting), and if they're somewhere near enough to where I want to go, I'd have a crack.


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## DU99

got a reply from NZ there $1000 (NZ)$931 AUS then the tax/duty.. and they run on a normal power point..
PS..comes with counterflow chiller


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## wide eyed and legless

Best place for a holiday is China, there are sites which advertise the trade fairs in China usually put up by the sponsors look under beverage manufacturers trade fair.


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## dicko

DU99 said:


> got a reply from NZ there $1000 (NZ)$931 AUS then the tax/duty.. and they run on a normal power point..


That price is favourable but I would imagine that there would be a freight component to Aus and then delivery to the customer.

It appears from the vid that the wort is circulated from the top of the grain bed to the bottom not from bottom to top as with BM and the mash appears to be a single step or multi steps may be able to be set manually. Cleaning looks to be a lot more work as well.
Provided that there is no inherent problems, I am sure that the machine will suit a variety of brewers.


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## Beersuit

dicko said:


> That price is favourable but I would imagine that there would be a freight component to Aus and then delivery to the customer.


I am under the impression that these are bought out by Imake so every brew shop in Australia will have access to them so freight will be minimal to none.


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## wide eyed and legless

dicko said:


> It may very well be in competition with this one


Got the price, (I think overpriced) $3290 + shipping from Brazil for the 50 litre


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## Darrens

Looking forward to this unit coming out on the market. Only been in the home brew scene about 6 months, probably looking at going all grain next year so this might be the way to go for me!
Darren.


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## Elz

Darrens said:


> Looking forward to this unit coming out on the market. Only been in the home brew scene about 6 months, probably looking at going all grain next year so this might be the way to go for me!
> Darren.


Ditto.
Be interesting to see what the, 'test', Kiwi market think of the unit. Possible down sides include not having a tap and is not programable. On the positive side it will cost 1.5K less than the BM. Here's hoping it meets the expectations of the home brewing market.
Elz


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## Elz

Elz said:


> I kinda get that companies wanna selectively release new products into the market, but for f..cks sake just get it right and sell it to public, or not. This limited release to a limited market is iphonesk which does not really gel with the home brew market (in my opinion) 'Selling' a 100 units to a select few NZ brewers has got me wondering what the initial purchasers are getting them self in for? $100 x $1000 obviously equals $100 a lot of money, but are they Guinea pigs? Am i wrong in thinking this way?
> 
> Overall i am kinda sick of companies thinking that consumers should be thankful that they are willing to sell to us.


I kinda get that companies wanna selectively release new products into the market, but for f..cks sake just get it right get and sell it to public, or not. This limited release to a limited market is iphonesk which does not really gel with the home brew market (in my opinion) Why only 'sell' 100 units to a select few has got me wondering what the initial purchasers are getting them self in for? $100 x $1000 obviously equals $100 k alot of doss, but are they Guinea pigs? Am i wrong in thinking this way?

Overall i am kinda sick of companies thinking that consumers should be thankful that they are willing to sell to us.


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## djar007

wide eyed and legless said:


> Was it the one pictured?






Sorry it took so long. Hectic week at work.


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## Elz

Hic!! 
Enough ranting for awhile
Elz


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## Siborg

Batz said:


> Then the Chinese version.
> 
> 
> http://beercooler.en.alibaba.com/product/514778542-213105112/homebrew_craft_beer_equipments.html


bulk buy anyone


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## menoetes

I'm pretty ignorant concerning all-grain brewing but this looks a little to me like an urn pimped out with extras like the removable basket, temp control, pump and chiller. Am I off base with this presumption?


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## Batz

These are not a new idea, here's one that was for sale back in the 1920's


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## mje1980

Another shiny whizz bang gadget I don't need that costs a shit load. I've gotta have one!!


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## wynnum1

Will be seeing this on a info commercial showing how easy to make beer with easy payments .


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## MCHammo

I'm not sure if the CFC comes with these, or it's an optional extra (I've heard there may be a few accessories, and may not be limited to the still attachment). In any case, it's a very tidy looking unit, and the price is about right. Having said that, I wonder how hard it would be to hack the control panel/electronics and install your own system. Thinking about making up a PIC/Arduino/RPi control board to do step mashing, timers and alarms, connect it up to a computer to download a beerxml file with mash instructions... Pretty much something I want to do in the future anyway, but without having to design and build any of the hardware.


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## notung

Batz said:


> These are not a new idea, here's one that was for sale back in the 1920's


That's brilliant! Great find.


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## SnakeDoctor

Needs more arrogant directors, stupid name, rigged competition results and forum shills before I will consider one.


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## suchidog

So has anyone given any thought to adding mathos controller to a Grainfather to have a semi automatic system at less than have the price of a Braumeister?


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## MCHammo

I mentioned a few posts back that I'd consider grabbing one to add my own control system to. Not matho's one, but one of my own design. I don't see why matho's wouldn't work (but then again, I've never looked at that board, so I have no idea what its capable of). Should run fine with a few relays to switch any mains components. I'd love to see one in the flesh before I make any plans, though.


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## BadSeed

Looks like the first ones will hit NZ people in September.
Hopefully in Aus by Xmas.

The first one is being demo'd all over their facebook page


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## RobB

[SIZE=medium]It’s disappointing that the mash steps are manual, rather than programmable. How much would a better controller have added to the cost of this unit? For me, I would prefer to have a better controller and to leave the CFC as an optional extra. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]A programmable mash schedule would have brought the Grainfather much closer to the Braumeister in terms of functionality, while still being half the price.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Just thinking out loud, so shoot me down if I am wrong:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]GF seems to flow downwards through the malt pipe, whereas the BM flows upwards. Would this make the BM less susceptible to stuck mashes?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]GF appears to have a concealed element. This makes it easier to clean, but anecdotal reports on this site seem to indicate that concealed elements may be more prone to burning out, since the heat is not stripped from them as efficiently. I’m sure that for every burnt out element there’s someone who has brewed hundreds of batches without problems………[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I have considered a similar system as a recirculating upgrade to my humble Birko urn. One concern which has stopped me is that by pumping into the malt pipe at the top and drawing wort off the bottom, will there be an annulus of water around the malt pipe which isn’t recirculating, and so is not participating in the mash?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]The lift, twist, lock design of the malt pipe is pretty cool.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]The GF facebook page recommends a lower liquid to grain ratio than the BM, so a sparge is necessary whereas the BM seems to treat a sparge as optional. The GF element only uses 500W during the mash, so it may be possible to run a small urn on the same circuit for sparge water.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]The manual temperature steps are still a stumbling block for me, but I hope they turn out to be an excellent and popular machine.[/SIZE]


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## joshuahardie

this looks like a very elegant alternative to the BM.

will be good to see one in the flesh, as it is very similar to how I have my BIAB setup


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## Elz

Agree, kinda sucks that it is not programable. Probably wait for this feature before outlaying my $$$$. Looks good otherwise


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## Crofty

Anyone seen this yet?

http://www.grainfather.com/

This looks like it could be good and is landing in Australia towards the end of the year at around a grand in kiwi money.

I spotted it as a sponsor of the ANHC and appears to be an offshoot from Mangrove Jacks.... mighty shiny and compact for those days when I don't feel like standing outside in the rain.

seems like you still need to heat up your sparge separately and bring your own fermenter, but apart from that everything seems to be in there.

Their FB page seems to have frequent updates - https://www.facebook.com/grainfather?fref=ts

I've attached the brochure here for anyone interested - View attachment e8b8c7_abe4fc63f61e4296a327d29212948f79.pdf


Looks kind of cool, hopefully they bring one to demo at ANHC.


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## Crofty

Cheers Barls for relocating my thread... couldn't find this one

Brochure is on the above post if anyone's interested


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## MastersBrewery

Matho's controller would slot straight into this, you may need to swap out the temp probe though, other than that it looks like a simple upgrade.

MB


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## Bats

So these are available to the public in NZ this month and Aus in November.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone over in NZ that have bought one and tested it out.

I'm really contemplating getting one of these if the positives outweigh the negatives.

I don't like that it is only big enough for about 25L but I do like the telescopic malt pipe that can take 9kg grain bills for bigger beers.


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## DU99

they will be doing demo's at ANHC.


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## Crofty

Bats said:


> So these are available to the public in NZ this month and Aus in November.
> 
> I'd be interested to hear from anyone over in NZ that have bought one and tested it out.
> 
> I'm really contemplating getting one of these if the positives outweigh the negatives.
> 
> I don't like that it is only big enough for about 25L but I do like the telescopic malt pipe that can take 9kg grain bills for bigger beers.


Also interested to hear from our kiwi friends how this goes. If it's good I'm in on the preorder come November.


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## spryzie

What is the cost?


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## blotto

That controller on the GF looks just like the FridgeMate temp controller that I bought for my fridge a few years ago, that was before I found out about the STC 1000 which I much prefer.


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## sp0rk

spryzie said:


> What is the cost?


Apparently a shade under $1000
(I think $998 was the price being thrown around)


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## spryzie

Hmmm. A grand, eh?

Almost within the bounds of possibility then. Especially with the wort chiller.

If only you could ferment in it...


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## sp0rk

I think the wort chiller makes up a bit over $200 of the cost (I think it might even be optional)


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## Crofty

If you go to the site and hit the NZ region you'll see what they're currently selling for there.


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## Online Brewing Supplies

I hope to get one on release in Aust and give it a real testing, to me the price makes it a real option compared to the BM.
The fact it doesnt auto step is not a problem, just a bit more time consuming pushing buttons.
I have been in contact with imake Australia and there is no release info as yet, apparently another month before they have any news.
keep you all in the loop.
Nev


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## philmud

Based purely on the NZ site price ($995 NZD) these would be $887AU. Obviously the pricing probably won't work that way given different shipping/taxes etc.

Edit: the possible need to sparge is the major drawback to me as it stops this from being a true 1v system. Is it possible that you would just need to top up before the boil?


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## Crofty

Here's the info I received from then directly back in August. They have since released in NZ at $995.

"We do not have any set prices at this stage, a rough indication would be around the $1000 NZ mark.
The Grainfather will be available online to Australia , Europe and UK customers in November 2014"


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## QldKev

Maybe with the pricing they should call it the GrandFather 

I can handle not having temperature steps in the controller. I cannot believe they dont use a pid and piss of the manual switching to a 500w element to get around the issue.


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## Judanero

:icon_offtopic: Just had a look at their Red IPA recipe, 1kg of Melanoiden.... Whoa.


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## DU99

read this article


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## keifer33

Cool will take a squizz at Anhc. But might not purchase straight away.


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## pat_00

I think it looks good, if I didn't have my DIY brauclone almost finished I would go for it.


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## HBHB

Brewing with one on Monday.

Will let you know how it goes.


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## AndrewQLD

HBHB said:


> Brewing with one on Monday.
> 
> Will let you know how it goes.


Going to watch the imake demo are you? Should be a good day.


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## HBHB

AndrewQLD said:


> Going to watch the imake demo are you? Should be a good day.


Hope it's more hands on than a demo. Late start.


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## Dan Pratt

Judanero said:


> :icon_offtopic: Just had a look at their Red IPA recipe, 1kg of Melanoiden.... Whoa.


and 16% crystal malt...... :huh:


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## Beersuit

I dont think you will get your hands on Martin from what I have gathered it will probably just be a show and tell. A bit of a shame.


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## HBHB

Not doing an 8 hr round trip to look at shiny new stainless bling mate. It's going to get malty dirty regardless.


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## keifer33

I can see the news headline 'Mash less Grainfather demo turns sour'


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## dicko

Judanero said:


> :icon_offtopic: Just had a look at their Red IPA recipe, 1kg of Melanoiden.... Whoa.





Pratty1 said:


> and 16% crystal malt...... :huh:


Made me wonder a little as well......If I wasnt on an Ipad I could add the "vomit" icon here.


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## Dan Pratt

dicko said:


> Made me wonder a little as well......If I wasnt on an Ipad I could add the "vomit" icon here.


 :icon_vomit:


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## dicko

Pratty1 said:


> :icon_vomit:


That's the one.....


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## HBHB

Back on deck after a very long day yesterday following a late mash in and 5 1/2 hr trip home thanks to roadworks.

Pics & roundup of the Grainfather (this is actually the MkII, which has just been released in NZ, though the test unit has already clocked up about 50 odd brews & travelled some 50,000klm)





Gives a basic idea of the set up. Effective, simple, compact and utilitarian.




Select strike temp to wherever you want it and go wash the dishes (or have a beer) doesn't take long.



Mash in as normal, hit the switch to recirculate or choose your mash step temp and power up the smaller element. Steps take a few minutes to reach. Pretty effective really.



Once you reach mash-out temp, attach the handle and lift the basket, rotate to support. let it drain. Go pour another beer. As you near the end of drain, flick on the larger element to ramp for boil



Boil is vigorous enough @ around 8-10% boil off (can't remember exactly what it was)



Attach the counter flow wort chiller and pour another beer. In summer in hot weather, a small pre-chiller in some ice/water would be of benefit, depending on your water temperatures.


Is it perfect? No. But it is excellent & I believe good value at under AUD $1k

All in all, an impressive piece of kit that will make brew days that much easier for a lot of brewers.

Ramping times are pretty good, boil is sufficiently vigorous, It can mash in up to about 9kg of grain, though it's a rather thick mash. Pump is efficient & quiet.

IMHO, it's a pretty impressive unit based on first exposure to it.


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## philmud

Was this a full volume mash, or was there a sparge step?


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## Trevandjo

Thanks for the report and pics. I'm pretty close to commiting to buy. 

A couple of questions. 

Is the draining to fv or cube fairly straight forward. Pumped or gravity?

My house is 100% solar so current draw is a big consideration when switching to electric. Will this need a 15A power supply?

Cheers,

Trev
Edit: spelling.


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## HBHB

Prince Imperial said:


> Was this a full volume mash, or was there a sparge step?


Sparge from a second urn.



Trevandjo said:


> Thanks for the report and pics. I'm pretty close to commiting to buy.
> 
> A couple of questions.
> 
> Is the draining to fv or cube fairly straight forward. Pumped or gravity?
> 
> My house is 100% solar so current draw is a big consideration when switching to electric. Will this need a 15A power supply?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Trev
> Edit: spelling.


Transferred to the FV via the pump & CFWC.

10A is all you need Trev


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## MastersBrewery

I can see much like matho's clone gave ppl a cheaper entry into repeatable controlled 1v, and I think we're now seeing considerable take up. This will give brewers a great option to brew all grain using little space at a cost outlay that brewer's significant others are less likely to kill them for. I'd also think like the BM once brewers get some time with the machine there will be tweaks that will improve the process and efficiency. I for one will be watching closely over the next 18mnths.

There is nothing obsessive about wanting 2 1V systems h34r:


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## vykuza

Thanks for the rundown HBHB! How does it look to clean up afterwards?


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## HBHB

Nick R said:


> Thanks for the rundown HBHB! How does it look to clean up afterwards?


Pretty easily really Nick. You just pull up a chair in the corner and chat to Peter and Joe D while they clean it h34r:

Soft brush some of their preferred cleaner and hot water, pump it through the CFWC followed by a rinse with clean water. The units will come with a cleaner pack to get brewers started for the first few brews.

PBW won't be an option due to the mixed metals/soft metal issue if you want them to last, but the cleaner for the units is quite reasonably priced.


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## Online Brewing Supplies

HBHB said:


> PBW won't be an option due to the mixed metals/soft metal issue if you want them to last, but the cleaner for the units is quite reasonably priced.


Lead , tin , mercury ?
Nev


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## manticle

Straight sodium perc no good either?


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## Blind Dog

Thanks for the write up

Wonder if it will change the pricing of the BM if or when they get the unit into Europe and the US? Particularly if they add a programmable controller to enable set and forget step mashing. 

No doubt they'll be a GF v BM thread soon full of pithy nonsense. Joy


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## Yob

manticle said:


> Straight sodium perc no good either?


probably would Manticle, but as with my CIP system, you need to add and let sit for a bit, running it through the pump as it is volatizing isnt great fro the pumps...


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## MastersBrewery

Blind Dog said:


> No doubt they'll be a GF v BM thread soon full of pithy nonsense. Joy


I think there will be pluses and minuses on both sides, the great thing to come out of this will be more great brews being made by more brewers. I note current comp season has shown what judges have described as a high quality of entries across the board, I can see with offerings such as this and more affordable conical offerings, next years comps are going to get even tighter. I say this from the point of view that consistency is key in the learning curve of the craft that is brewing.

MB


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## HBHB

Online Brewing Supplies said:


> Lead , tin , mercury ?
> Nev


I'm sure they could cater that in a custom unit if you really want it Nev.

Try the usual suspects of copper brass etc.




MastersBrewery said:


> I note current comp season has shown what judges have described as a high quality of entries across the board
> MB


Guess I'm screwed then :lol:




Blind Dog said:


> No doubt they'll be a GF v BM thread soon full of pithy nonsense. Joy


Yep, I can see why people would compare eggs with apples lol


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## Cervantes

MastersBrewery said:


> There is nothing obsessive about wanting 2 1V systems h34r:


My goal is to end up with three..........


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## Beersuit

Braumeister V Grainfather




Today I was given the chance to run the Grainfather side by side with our Braumeister. JoeD from Imake let me choose the recipe and brew it. I decided on a rye ipa I have done a few times without fault on the Braumeister. I figured the 24% rye and a protein rest would test the thing out hopefully get a stuck mash. 55 degrees for 10, 66 degrees for 45,72 degrees for 20 then a mash out at 76 for 10

So mashed in the Braumeister first not to give it a head start but so I would have time between the 2 when it came time to remove malt pipes and sparge. Note the gentle trickle of the Braumeister.



Mashed in the Grainfather and Joe gave me a rundown on how the controls work and started recirculating at a rate of knots. I thought you beauty this thing will stick for sure.



Changed the mash temp to 66 and started the timer to see how fast the ramps were. 16 minutes to climb 11 degrees so an impressive 1.4 degree a minute. It seemed to handle everything I threw at it thus far. I took it through to the 72 rest and checked the display on the Braumeister, Still had 15 minutes at 66 left, wow this thing is fast we said. Got it to mash out, removed the malt pipe and sparged to get my volume to 28 litres with ease. No stuck sparge, no problems there at all.

The Braumeister was still chugging away slowly just getting to 72 at this point.

Weighed out 2 x 240 grams of hops, had a beer and chatted to Joe about what there plans were for the units and finally the Braumeister was ready to sparge just as the Grainfather was starting to boil.

Had some lunch and more beer waiting to put in our payload of hops at 10 to go.



Finished the boil and checked the gravity 1.059. 1 point off the expected gravity checked volumes and was 2 litres under for the recipe so roughly 75% brew house efficiency. I had worked the recipe at 80%. Ah well close enough we said. Looked at the Braumeister display and still had 50 minutes left on the boil.

We had to use the counter flow chiller to get the wort out and into a cube as all our fermenting fridges are full. So sorry guys no specks on how quick that works.

Results.
We all know the Braumeister is a good bit of kit and what it does it does well but I was astounded at how well the Grainfather stacked up next to it. Quicker ramp times. Bigger malt pipe and the boil was a lot more vigorous were the first things that struck me. The let downs were a slight over and under shoot by a degree on the temps when getting to them and the slightly lower efficiency. Both of these points could easily be fixed both by the brewer and the manufactures.Talking to Joe he said they are already coming up with a PID control unit that will be upgradeable on all models. They seem to think that people need to feel like they are doing something and that was the reason for the control unit they went for.
After spending a few hours on it I would quite happily buy one especially for the price they are going to go for.


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## Crofty

Thanks for the review Beersuit! Great info.


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## Maheel

nice one Beersuit

makes me very interested for xmas


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## Beersuit

I must admit I was very skeptical of this unit before running it today.


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## Cervantes

Thanks for the review.................

I'm now thinking that maybe I'd like to buy one of these so that I can do my own side by side comparison every brew day.


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## AndrewQLD

That's what I call a proper review.


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## Beersuit

Thanks Andrew. I admit the review could have been better but everyone should get the gist.


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## Cocko

Nice one, beersuit! Thanks for sharing.

I am going to have to get one..... to re-build a triple batch version h34r:

:beerbang:


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## wobbly

Am I missing something here (no don't answer that)
According to the brochure in an earlier post the heating element is only 2000 watts with a second 500 watt element for mash temperature control.
The BM element in the 20lt unit is 2200 watts so how does the GF achieve faster times than the BM?
Or do both elements in the GF (2000 + 500) operate when ramping and/or boiling.

Cheers

Wobbly


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## Beersuit

I'm not entirely sure how it does it Wobbly. I think it might have something to do with the speed of the pump on the Grainfather.


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## DU99

Was a price mentioned


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## Beersuit

Recommended retail will be $999 mate. I tried to find out if they will do a launch special but the answer I got was no $999.


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## QldKev

Beersuit said:


> <<snip>>
> 
> Changed the mash temp to 66 and started the timer to see how fast the ramps were. 16 minutes to climb 11 degrees so an impressive 1.4 degree a minute.
> 
> <<snip>>
> 
> The let downs were a slight over and under shoot by a degree on the temps when getting to them and the slightly lower efficiency. Both of these points could easily be fixed both by the brewer and the manufactures.Talking to Joe he said they are already coming up with a PID control unit that will be upgradeable on all models. They seem to think that people need to feel like they are doing something and that was the reason for the control unit they went for.
> 
> <<snip>>


16 mins to raise 11 degrees is not 1.4 degree per min, it is 1.4 mins per degree. 16/11 = 1.4
but
11/16 for degrees per min = 0.6875 degree per min

So they are going straight to a programmable pid? With my comments prior I though a standard single set point pid would be great. Then the user still has the manual control for set points/times, but the controller is smart enough to avoid the over/under shooting issue you found, as a bonus they would need need the 500w element and wiring.

Overall I think it is a great bit of kit once they get the last few bits sorted.


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## QldKev

wobbly said:


> Am I missing something here (no don't answer that)
> According to the brochure in an earlier post the heating element is only 2000 watts with a second 500 watt element for mash temperature control.
> The BM element in the 20lt unit is 2200 watts so how does the GF achieve faster times than the BM?
> Or do both elements in the GF (2000 + 500) operate when ramping and/or boiling.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Wobbly


Depending on volumes, the ramp rate it achieved is very realistic. Using 32L (guess at volume used) and a 2,000w element and the calc on my website, I worked out 0.9 degree per min would be achievable with zero losses.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Beersuit said:


> Braumeister V Grainfather
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMAG0137.jpg
> 
> Today I was given the chance to run the Grainfather side by side with our Braumeister. JoeD from Imake let me choose the recipe and brew it. I decided on a rye ipa I have done a few times without fault on the Braumeister. I figured the 24% rye and a protein rest would test the thing out hopefully get a stuck mash. 55 degrees for 10, 66 degrees for 45,72 degrees for 20 then a mash out at 76 for 10
> 
> So mashed in the Braumeister first not to give it a head start but so I would have time between the 2 when it came time to remove malt pipes and sparge. Note the gentle trickle of the Braumeister.
> 
> 
> 
> IMAG0139.jpg
> 
> Mashed in the Grainfather and Joe gave me a rundown on how the controls work and started recirculating at a rate of knots. I thought you beauty this thing will stick for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> IMAG0140.jpg
> 
> Changed the mash temp to 66 and started the timer to see how fast the ramps were. 16 minutes to climb 11 degrees so an impressive 1.4 degree a minute. It seemed to handle everything I threw at it thus far. I took it through to the 72 rest and checked the display on the Braumeister, Still had 15 minutes at 66 left, wow this thing is fast we said. Got it to mash out, removed the malt pipe and sparged to get my volume to 28 litres with ease. No stuck sparge, no problems there at all.
> 
> The Braumeister was still chugging away slowly just getting to 72 at this point.
> 
> Weighed out 2 x 240 grams of hops, had a beer and chatted to Joe about what there plans were for the units and finally the Braumeister was ready to sparge just as the Grainfather was starting to boil.
> 
> Had some lunch and more beer waiting to put in our payload of hops at 10 to go.
> 
> 
> 
> IMAG0142.jpg
> 
> Finished the boil and checked the gravity 1.059. 1 point off the expected gravity checked volumes and was 2 litres under for the recipe so roughly 75% brew house efficiency. I had worked the recipe at 80%. Ah well close enough we said. Looked at the Braumeister display and still had 50 minutes left on the boil.
> 
> We had to use the counter flow chiller to get the wort out and into a cube as all our fermenting fridges are full. So sorry guys no specks on how quick that works.
> 
> Results.
> We all know the Braumeister is a good bit of kit and what it does it does well but I was astounded at how well the Grainfather stacked up next to it. Quicker ramp times. Bigger malt pipe and the boil was a lot more vigorous were the first things that struck me. The let downs were a slight over and under shoot by a degree on the temps when getting to them and the slightly lower efficiency. Both of these points could easily be fixed both by the brewer and the manufactures.Talking to Joe he said they are already coming up with a PID control unit that will be upgradeable on all models. They seem to think that people need to feel like they are doing something and that was the reason for the control unit they went for.
> After spending a few hours on it I would quite happily buy one especially for the price they are going to go for.


Had you presented your brewing experience on the test would have made it more viable, but all the same a good review.
Let me at this machine and the test will be more me orientated  I know what I want.
Nev


----------



## Beersuit

Thanks for correcting me kev I thought it was a bit quick. I don't know a lot of the details of the upgrade kit only time will tell. 

You should have put a patent on your 1v kev they may have stolen a few ideas.


----------



## Beersuit

They should be landing early November apparently nev so you might just have to wait till then.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Beersuit said:


> They should be landing early November apparently nev so you might just have to wait till then.


Your lucky to have got to play.
I can wait to get it to WA (wait a while)


----------



## aamcle

Grainfather questions.:-

This has me confused, it seems to be a variation on a recirculating BIAB but the flow rate of returning wort is high.

I've built a couple of recirculating Biab rigs with solid sided baskets and l found that the returned flow had to be low or the wort overflowed. The GF has a high flow so :- 

1, In use is there a large difference between the level of the wort in the malt pipe and the level in the outer vessel?

2, ls the malt pipe sealed to the bottom of the urn like a BM?

3, Dose wort overflow the mash pipe during recirculation?

4, What is the top filter for?

5, Does all the returning wort make its way through the grain?


Many Thanks. Aamcle


----------



## Florian

can you give more or less specific examples of low and high flow rates of a recirculating 1v system?


----------



## Edak

Thanks for the great review. 

You will find that one the PID is added to the GF that the brew day will be slower. That is the likely reason why the BM was slower.


----------



## Beersuit

1. The malt pipe in the GF is huge it slides into the boiler very snugly. 

2. The pipe isn't stuck to the bottom. 

3. 4. & 5. There is a tube in the center of the malt pipe that allows excess wort to detour straight to the bottom missing the grain bed. The top filter holds the grain in the pipe stopping it from flinging out of the basket during recirculation.


----------



## Beersuit

I still think it will ramp quicker it will just be a little more stable at holding temps.


----------



## barls

topics merged again


----------



## wobbly

Not knocking something I haven't seen or used but just interested.

Seeing is was supposed to be a side by side comparison then assuming the vols would have been the same my question is how did the GF achieve faster ramps with 2000 watt input than the BM with 2200 watt input?
How can you tell there is/was no stuck mash/sparge if the tube in the centre bypasses any wort not passing through the grain bed?
Wobbly


----------



## doon

Holy crap just watching a video on these, there are lots of little bits and pieces you need to put on take off etc you wouldnt want to lose any of them!


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

doon said:


> Holy crap just watching a video on these, there are lots of little bits and pieces you need to put on take off etc you wouldnt want to lose any of them!


Best not Drink and Drive it then .


----------



## aamcle

Nice a recirculating biab with a bi- pass, I'd think most of the wort goes down the tube so a stuck sparge is impossible.

What a tidy bit of kit!

Aamcle


----------



## Trevandjo

Who has got the distribution rights? Or will it be an online purchase, LHBS or... Harvey Norman???


----------



## Florian

aamcle said:


> Nice a recirculating biab with a bi- pass, I'd think most of the wort goes down the tube so a stuck sparge is impossible.
> Aamcle


I'd rather say a stuck sparge is possible but you won't notice it, which makes it even worse as in theory you could be circulating low gravity wort without extracting much sugars.

I'm just going by what people have said on here though, haven't actually looked at the unit in detail, so I am hoping I am wrong.


----------



## blotto

Florian said:


> I'd rather say a stuck sparge is possible but you won't notice it, which makes it even worse as in theory you could be circulating low gravity wort without extracting much sugars.


I'm thinking the same Florian, look's to me like a 1V HERMS unit. Looks good though.

Edit: not sure if it's RIMS or HERMS or neither.


----------



## calobes

Trevandjo said:


> Who has got the distribution rights? Or will it be an online purchase, LHBS or... Harvey Norman???


My local country brewer seems to think he will be able to order them


----------



## dicko

Florian said:


> I'd rather say a stuck sparge is possible but you won't notice it, which makes it even worse as in theory you could be circulating low gravity wort without extracting much sugars.
> 
> I'm just going by what people have said on here though, haven't actually looked at the unit in detail, so I am hoping I am wrong.



I think for this reason that a sparge similar to what happens with a conventional mash tun 3v system would be absolutely necessary to get you efficiencies.


----------



## BadSeed

Trevandjo said:


> Who has got the distribution rights? Or will it be an online purchase, LHBS or... Harvey Norman???


Good question.
I was in my lhbs on Friday and I asked about it. They said they had heard of it but didn't yet know who the distributor was.
This was a staff member though not the owner, he may know a bit more.

They said if they could stock it they would.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

The distribution in Australia is not decided as yet but you should be able to get one through your local HBS store.
Nev


----------



## RobB

wobbly said:


> Seeing is was supposed to be a side by side comparison then assuming the vols would have been the same my question is how did the GF achieve faster ramps with 2000 watt input than the BM with 2200 watt input?


Beersuit may be able to confirm from his side by side, but I Think the GF may be heating less water during the mash. The BM is close to a full volume mash with optional sparge, whereas I get the impression that a much larger sparge is required for the GF.


----------



## BadSeed

From their website:
"The Grainfather will be available online to Australia, Europe and UK customers in November 2014"


----------



## doon

http://youtu.be/j0rIV0wCokE


----------



## doon

In this video he has a 6+ kg grain bill and mashed in with 20l


----------



## Beersuit

Malty Cultural said:


> Beersuit may be able to confirm from his side by side, but I Think the GF may be heating less water during the mash. The BM is close to a full volume mash with optional sparge, whereas I get the impression that a much larger sparge is required for the GF.


I mashed both of them with 25l and sparged with a watering can. Both identical Gran bills. I can only put the faster ramp down to a quicker flow of wort. The GF does have a concealed element and the boil was a lot more vigorous. 

I hope the element is not failing on my BM.


----------



## Beersuit

Online Brewing Supplies said:


> The distribution in Australia is not decided as yet but you should be able to get one through your local HBS store.
> Nev


Nev they are made by IMake who do Mangrove Jack, Still Spirit, Blackrock and copper tun so I'm fairly sure if stores have direct access to these products they will be able to stock them at a reasonable price.


----------



## denemc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmvt52vW1gY


----------



## sluggerdog

Hairy Goat said:


> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmvt52vW1gY


From the looks of this video the return is just some silicone hose into the wort? Is that right or am I missing something?

Thanks


----------



## Beersuit

You are correct.


----------



## denemc

Yeah it is - this wasn't my video but done by someone I know. Mixed result here with some people loving it and some people reporting stuck mash, leaks, chilling problems, build quality issues, slow ramp times.... Not big problems but if you are spending $1k then you want it to be right. Some of the bits are cheap, eg the temp controller is a $10 STC200, the stainless is thin..


----------



## Pirate323i

Not being a PID controller it is most likely pumping 2000W into the element the whole time while the BM for better or worse is controlling the temp...


----------



## MastersBrewery

Pirate323i said:


> Not being a PID controller it is most likely pumping 2000W into the element the whole time while the BM for better or worse is controlling the temp...


This just doesn't make sense.

Whilst the controller may over/under shoot temps during mash, what your stating would mean the mash would be boiling before mash out. Whilst I get that you are probably making this statement about the boil, adjusting for a hard boil is very rarely a problem as long as it's consistent. Further a PID in most cases doesn't use PWM, so in essence the PID is also lighting up all of the 2000w element in the same scenario, only a PID does it for a micro second at a time whilst checking the result of the application/s.

MB


----------



## HBHB

I've done a number of brews on this unit now from pale lagers through AIPA's and still playing with it.

There will be a PID option coming out I believe.

There's still some tweaking of design going on to iron out some minor inconveniences and the Aust release will have these done. 

So far, brew house efficiencies are running in the 80+ % range, with due care to milling, temps and mash pH etc. certainly better than I'd expected.

Stuck sparges will be identifiable as only the excess wort from the pump/recirc goes through the overflow pipe. There's a large area of grain bed under the mesh screen and an adjustable height for the overflow pipe. 

The 2000w setting is only engaged to elevate the temp if it's a big jump. 

I know there's a lot of Brewers who want a PID. Fair enough, but FFS, there's guys out there making good beers using glass thermometers and $10 cheaparse dial thermometers who don't have a nervous breakdown every time they pick it up. The PID option was requested originally and will come, but in reality, +/- 1 degree for 2 minutes isn't going to turn a gold medal beer into swamp water.

There's a team of people out there including some talented pro and amateur Brewers who are working hard to bring a decent product to market at a reasonable price. When you've actually seen it or brewed with it would be a good time to provide feedback both negative and positive. 

It's no use trying to compare a GF unit to a BM unit. Different pieces of kit althogether. one is under 1K, the other over 2k. 

The Grainfather will fill a niche and will make perfect sense to the majority of Brewers making the majority of beer styles in single batch sizes, but at under 1k, won't be the same as any 2.5 or 5k system.

In the meantime, if anyone in Brisbane or on the Sunshine Coast wants to host a brewday for a dozen or so guys, I'll happily provide the recipe and make the trip down to make it happen. Host gets the beer. No sales pitch and no expectations.

Martin


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

HBHB said:


> I've done a number of brews on this unit now from pale lagers through AIPA's and still playing with it.
> 
> There will be a PID option coming out I believe.
> 
> There's still some tweaking of design going on to iron out some minor inconveniences and the Aust release will have these done.
> 
> So far, brew house efficiencies are running in the 80+ % range, with due care to milling, temps and mash pH etc. certainly better than I'd expected.
> 
> Stuck sparges will be identifiable as only the excess wort from the pump/recirc goes through the overflow pipe. There's a large area of grain bed under the mesh screen and an adjustable height for the overflow pipe.
> 
> The 2000w setting is only engaged to elevate the temp if it's a big jump.
> 
> I know there's a lot of Brewers who want a PID. Fair enough, but FFS, there's guys out there making good beers using glass thermometers and $10 cheaparse dial thermometers who don't have a nervous breakdown every time they pick it up. The PID option was requested originally and will come, but in reality, +/- 1 degree for 2 minutes isn't going to turn a gold medal beer into swamp water.
> 
> There's a team of people out there including some talented pro and amateur Brewers who are working hard to bring a decent product to market at a reasonable price. When you've actually seen it or brewed with it would be a good time to provide feedback both negative and positive.
> 
> It's no use trying to compare a GF unit to a BM unit. Different pieces of kit althogether. one is under 1K, the other over 2k.
> 
> The Grainfather will fill a niche and will make perfect sense to the majority of Brewers making the majority of beer styles in single batch sizes, but at under 1k, won't be the same as any 2.5 or 5k system.
> 
> In the meantime, if anyone in Brisbane or on the Sunshine Coast wants to host a brewday for a dozen or so guys, I'll happily provide the recipe and make the trip down to make it happen. Host gets the beer. No sales pitch and no expectations.
> 
> Martin


The weather is nice in WA atm ?
Nev


----------



## Trevandjo

Hey Martin,

I can't see any of our Victorian sponsor websites doing pre-orders. Could you give me a ball park price of shipping to country Vic? 
I'm keen as mustard to get myself 1 of these ASAP. 

Cheers
Trev


----------



## DU99

Is there a victorian agent..


----------



## HBHB

Online Brewing Supplies said:


> The weather is nice in WA atm ?
> 
> 
> Nev


It is indeed Nev, but if I get over there, I'll be heading north with a fly rod and chasing Bonefish up around Esperance, Meet me on the beach with a generator. Bring beer.





Trevandjo said:


> Hey Martin,
> I can't see any of our Victorian sponsor websites doing pre-orders. Could you give me a ball park price of shipping to country Vic?
> I'm keen as mustard to get myself 1 of these ASAP.
> 
> Cheers
> Trev


Feel free to drop me a call on 07 41282033



DU99 said:


> Is there a victorian agent..


They will be widely available including from Vic based stores.

Will be doing a 26% rye IPA later this week or early next. If anything's going to make it stick, it'll be that or a 50/50 hefe that is on the cards as well. Couple of hands full of the 125 kg of rice hulls in stock should do the trick.


----------



## Blind Dog

As a very happy BM owner, I'm loving what I've seen of the GF. Crap name, but looks like a great product and if I didn't have a BM already I'd definitely want one.


----------



## keifer33

HBHB said:


> It is indeed Nev, but if I get over there, I'll be heading north with a fly rod and chasing Bonefish up around Esperance, Meet me on the beach with a generator. Bring beer.


Dont tempt Nev too much as he will probably take you up on the offer! He also has a pretty cool hat so you better come prepared.


----------



## GrumpyPaul

HBHB - you could always make a trip to Victoria on 29th November and come do a demo at the Vic Case Swap - there should be about 35 brewers there.

Plenty of good food - lots of great beer and all round awesome blokes.

And then you can see how we do things bigger down south.


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

Ah, the hat is a FAD (Fish attraction device), yes I will bring beer and two genies.
Probably a spare hat too.
Nev


----------



## Guysmiley54

Is the sparge step necessary? I've seen some youtube videos and the mashing water to grain ratio seems a little low (thick). I wonder what the difference in efficiency would be if you mashed with the full boil volume from the start?


----------



## Cervantes

HBHB said:


> I'll be heading north with a fly rod and chasing Bonefish up around *Esperance*,


Exmouth perhapse?


----------



## HBHB

Cervantes said:


> Exmouth perhapse?


indeed


----------



## spryzie

I want one! 

Does look a little unpolished but if it is solidly built than I could live with that. 

Especially for the price.


----------



## fraser_john

Just out of interest, well boredom, went to the grainfather website......barp bahm.....




Lots of backlinks to the grainfather.com too so not like it was not the genuine website.


----------



## Trevandjo

This one works. 

http://www.grainfather.co.nz


----------



## Nibbo

DU99 said:


> Is there a victorian agent..


Pretty much if a home brew shop stocks brands like Mangrove Jacks, Copper Tun and Still Spirits, then they can get in the Grainfather. They will be widely available.

Nibbo


----------



## Online Brewing Supplies

I will be stocking them in WA hopefully in time for Christmas .
Nev


----------



## HBHB

[SIZE=medium]Now that we’ve had a chance to run the Grainfather Unit through several brews, here’s our review.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Out of the box, there’s a few minutes work to do before the fun begins. You’ll need to check everything and make sure all the parts are there, so read the instructions. They’re better than the IKEA ones. The process is painless and a good opportunity to have a beer. Then there’s a cleaning cycle to run through while you have another beer.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]*BUILD*: Everything that matters on the unit is 304 grade Stainless. There’s a couple of brass threaded inserts on connectors that aren’t directly in contact with the beer and the chiller is copper, other than some of the fittings. The Grainfather Unit consists of a 30L (Actual is around 36L) Boiler with a concealed 2000 W element, under the stainless bottom (edited). There’s a retainer at the top that acts as a rest for the internal grain pipe for draining and sparging. The stainless grain pipe has solid sides and a removable top and bottom screen to allow adequate flow through the grain bed. Total size of the grain pipe is 430mm x 265, which gives it a volume of around 23.7L for the grain bill to fit into below the handle. More than adequate for a 23L batch of most beers. If making huge Russian Imperial Stouts or Barley wines, you’d be able to make smaller batches, such as 15-18L comfortably.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]*PUMP*: The unit comes with a 6watt 1800RPM self-priming pump for recirculation during the mash, providing excellent clarity (as per the pic) on most beer styles and it’s used for the chilling process and later, transfer to the fermenter, post boil and chilling. It’s been stress tested in heatwave conditions with boiling water running for hours and performed flawlessly. The pump inlet has a cylindrical shaped perforated stainless shroud that acts as a pre-filter. We tried desperately to foul it and haven’t yet succeded, though with one particularly large hop load, the flow did slow to about 2/3 of the norm. Retaining the hops in a hop sock or fine ss mesh insert would alleviate that issue.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]*WORT RETURN ARM*: Once mash in is achieved, the wort return arm is attached at the top of the wort return pipe, via a threaded fitting, which has a seal. The seal needs to be checked to ensure it’s straight and seated properly before attempting to screw on the arm. When the arm or the chiller coil are not attached, there’s a brass cap that sits over the outlet. A snap lock ball valve would have been a better choice, but we can’t have everything in this price range.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]*CHILLER*: The counterflow wort chiller is neat and tidy and we found it quite effective, though the unit included did have some QC problems with loose clamps and ordinary finishing on the chillers hardware. Though it was easily rectified, we still received one of the newer versions overnight which has a much better fit-out, with decent clamps and fittings. These will accompany all future releases. Post boil, the chiller can be placed on top of the unit and sanitised by running near boiling temperature wort through the unit for several minutes without water (good time for a hop stand). We’ve experienced water temperatures of around 33 deg C here during the test period and have managed to get the full batches wort down to 35 deg C in around 12-15 minutes. A short pre-chiller of about 4Mx1/2” copper pipe will drop it to pitching temperatures quickly by immersing a pre-chiller in some icy cold water with salt. I believe it could be in the pipeline for those who want an off the shelf solution. For everyone else, knock yourselves out at Bunnings.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]The chiller sits on top of the tempered glass lid post boil and the wort return pipe goes down though a hole in the middle. This doesn’t create any issues for DMS since you would have boiled long enough to not cause hassles. Beyond that, the chilling process is pretty effective and connectors are included to fit all standard threaded domestic taps, laundry taps or snap on hose fittings.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]*TEMP CONTROL*: The Temperature Controller is an STC 200. The control module is removable and the mount becomes a handle for use when the unit is empty. It’s got a clear Perspex splash guard over the keypad, pump and mode switches. It wouldn’t have been our first choice of controller, but within a budget, it does the job pretty well and is very simple to use. I found the Perspex lid annoying in that it goes up enough to operate the units without fear of moisture damage, but could open further. Plus the black on black pressed labelling is a pain in the arse for old blind blokes like me. While everyone could operate it blind after the first few uses, labelling could have been done better. Each temperature step is entered as required, when required, but leaves you free to get other stuff done. Use of a smart phone timer makes it easy to get about and do other stuff for the time poor. We’ve been brewing at work in a hectic retail environment and at home getting beers ready for a family influx at Christmas. Given we only get 1 day off a week, there’s always heaps to do on a half acre block and managed to get an APA, an AIPA, build a raised garden bed, rake the rubbish out of the car, clean the pool and get some pruning done. Started at 6.30 am and was all cleaned up by 4.30pm and enjoying a pale session beer by transfer of the second beer to the fermenter. By comparison, 2 beers done on my 3V HERMS system would have finished at around 9.00pm. I can live with that. On our wish list for the unit was and still is a PID controller and I believe (not 100% confirmed yet) it will come as an option later for those who wish to have ultimate control and programmability plus an ability to use the unit for sou vide cooking, if so inclined. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]*STEP MASHING*: throughout our testing, we ran a bunch of brews through with various steps and found the rise time was about 0.9 Deg C per minute when using the high setting. Maintaining the temp on the 500w mash setting is effective, while using the higher power for elevating on 2000w while recirculating is also effective.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]*SPARGING*: Sparge water can be pre-boiled and placed into an insulated SS Fermenter for use later, but may need a jug or 2 of boiling water. Alternatively, your sparge water could come from an urn, a second boiler or just a cheap ss pot on the stovetop. For the trials, we’ve just been using an urn.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]*THE BOIL*: Boil is certainly bold enough to do the job. I’ll try to get a video up. Ramping to the boil while the last of the sparge water flows through will save a bit more time. You’ll need to attend to the boil for a few minutes to ensure you don’t get a messy boil over. Good time to have another beer. As usual, boil off rates vary but in normal conditions, you could expect to boil off around 2.7-2.8L for a normal 60 minute boil and around 4.1 L for a 90 minute boil.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]*MILLING for the GF Unit & Efficiencies*: In trying to wreck everything, we ran grain bills through a range of sizes from 2 passes over an 8” mill and a 4” 3 roller at 0.7mm through 0.75mm 0.8mm, 0.83mm and .9mm. 2 passes at 0.83mm yielded the best average brewhouse efficiency and we peaked out at a crazy 88.23% on a beer (Boston Lager Clone) made with Roger D without any problems encountered along the way. The lowest efficiency encountered was at 0.9mm (single pass on Maris Otter) at 72.3% and the average was around the 75-82%. Impressive. There were variations between the 4” 3 roller mill and the 8” 2 roller & as expected, every mill is different. Really fine malted wheat milling of a 50:50 hefe grain bill did manage to get a very slow recirc and certainly, on most systems a couple of hands full of rice hulls would resolve those issues. The 26% Rye IPA grain bill presented no issues at all. Rye was milled at 0.5mm x 2 passes and the 2 row at 0.83 x 2 passes through the mill. BH Efficiency was a tad over 76%.[/SIZE]

*[SIZE=medium]OVERALL IMPRESSIONS[/SIZE]*
[SIZE=medium]There’s no point in comparing a Grainfather to a Braumeister, just as there’s no point in comparing it to an urn and a bag. I think the Grainfather unit presents a good value, functional package that will get someone into grain brewing for a number of reasons:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]*Space*. It’s a tidy unit that doesn’t take up much space for those living in homes where space is at a premium. It can be run on the kitchen or laundry floor, but you'll need to source an understanding wife from a third party supplier. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]*Functionality*. It does the job, does it with relative ease and does it a whole lot more simply than most 3V systems out there. While there’s folk out there who feel you can only make a decent beer with a PID controller, there’s a thousand more soldiering on with coffee thermometers and a stocking. A PID would be preferable and for those who find it an absolute necessity, then it will become available as an option. In the meantime, the supplied controller works just fine for what it is.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]*Time saver*. For folk who work stupid hours like me and then have domestic duties obligations following that, it’s a hell of a lot simpler to put this thing on the floor near a tap and a power point and run it while there’s other stuff that needs attending to. Brownie points WHILE you brew, not Brownie points so you can brew.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Price. Beyond a pot or an urn and BIAB, it’s likely the most cost effective piece of brewing kit we’ll see for some time to come.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]*Quality*. It’s not a $2500 German Made piece of brew porn. It’s a functional stainless steel brewing system, with pumped recirculation, digital control and cooling. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Over the last couple of weeks, we’ve obsessed over it, turned it on it’s head and done just about everything humanly possible to wreck it or at least make it stop working including some 3 brew days and nights running demo’s (and yes, we paid full price for ours). We turned up a few minor items we felt could be done better with a slight bump on price. Yet, straight up out of the box, the Grainfather unit represents an excellent way for brewers to get into grain brewing single batches or for those looking to simplify their processes. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]They're not "perfect", but for a RRP of $995, the overall functionality and capability of it is pretty damned good compared to anything else out there that we’ve seen and used.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]https://fbcdn-video-b-a.akamaihd.net/hvideo-ak-xpf1/v/t42.1790-2/10704714_645781442197634_708323957_n.mp4?oh=905c40bb3bcdf489be8eb3331bea9c7f&oe=546587FB&__gda__=1415944161_ddf2cd86b41ebda051aedeb37363ea4d[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]
[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Martin[/SIZE]


----------



## fraser_john

HBHB said:


> [SIZE=medium]Now that we’ve had a chance to run the Grainfather Unit through several brews, here’s our review.[/SIZE]
> 
> <snip>
> 
> [SIZE=medium]They're not "perfect", but for a RRP of $995, the overall functionality and capability of it is pretty damned good compared to anything else out there that we’ve seen and used.[/SIZE]
> [SIZE=medium]https://fbcdn-video-b-a.akamaihd.net/hvideo-ak-xpf1/v/t42.1790-2/10704714_645781442197634_708323957_n.mp4?oh=905c40bb3bcdf489be8eb3331bea9c7f&oe=546587FB&__gda__=1415944161_ddf2cd86b41ebda051aedeb37363ea4d[/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=medium]
> 
> 
> 
> GF Recirc.jpg[/SIZE]
> 
> [SIZE=medium]Martin[/SIZE]


Well done Martin a comprehensive review


----------



## Brewers Choice

For those interested in seeing the Grainfather in action, we will be running one this Saturday (29 Nov) at our Wacol store as part of our Food Club day. We ran it last week at the Fluid Festival and cranked out a pretty good beer. We'll start at 10 and then continue through until it's finished.

We will also be running demos on making cheese, sausages, tomato sauces/passata, vinegar and cocktails, so you can drag the partner along to watch those during the mashing/boil, and then drive you home afterwards (plenty of hospitality available!).

The kit should be $995 and is due to arrive within two weeks all being well. The delay has been due to Imake upgrading the cooler with larger pipes. The new version of the chiller left China a couple of days ago and are on the boat now. So, allowing for shipping, the wharves and Customs, they should be available before Christmas.

We are now taking reservations for the Grainfather. There is only about 180 arriving in the first shipment, for the whole of Australia, so supply will be limited. We have reserved a pile of them which will go firstly to those who have already ordered with us.

If you want to reserve one but can not make it to the demo, give us a call on 07 3271 1373.

MAP for Wacol - http://brewerschoice.com.au/store-locator/


----------



## DU99

Nice review..now to talk money with the mrs


----------



## AndrewQLD

Yes very nice reviews, however retailers please use the retail forum to promote your deals or offers on any and all products, all other forums are for general discussion and not for promoting products or services.


----------



## squeaker




----------



## moodgett

Wow im seriously considering this being my step up to all grain. I was looking at an urn. But also potentially a BM and this looks like it will fit my requirements quite well. Although im thinking mainly about the sparging part, I dont have an urn and currently have a couple of 11-12 litre pots. Would rather keep everything happening in the shed and away from the kitchen. whats the minimum sparge water amount would be you guys know? I may be able to get a small butane burner to heat sparge water on that

Or it it possible to do a no sparge in this system?

Cheers


----------



## Dan Pratt

Moodget. I sparge my BM 20Lt with 8lts of water from the tap @ 58c, to get that to 75c it requires a couple of quick boils of the kettle and add those to the sparge water. Sparging is rinsing and you only need to avoid +80c temps ( tannins ) and the use of 75c water for sparging is for viscocity, but this system GF and the BM both use a gravity drain through the grain bed and can be done at any temp.


----------



## moodgett

Pratty1 said:


> Moodget. I sparge my BM 20Lt with 8lts of water from the tap @ 58c, to get that to 75c it requires a couple of quick boils of the kettle and add those to the sparge water. Sparging is rinsing and you only need to avoid +80c temps ( tannins ) and the use of 75c water for sparging is for viscocity, but this system GF and the BM both use a gravity drain through the grain bed and can be done at any temp.


Awesome, thanks mate, now just to negotiate further with the minister


----------



## blotto

I reckon I'd be able to plug the Grainfather straight into my "Matho Controller", the only thing I can't see on it is the power in. I'm looking forward to checking these out when Nev gets a few in.


----------



## black_labb

I'm pretty impressed with the price (995 NZ$). Setting up my single vessel system probably cost about AU$ 400 which didn't include the keggle. Much of my cost was expensive stainless fittings and I don't know if they can do a programmed step mash.


----------



## MCHammo

The grainfather won't do a programmed step mash out of the box (but you can do one manually). Word is that they're working on a more advanced controller, capable of step mashes. No idea on an ETA, but I'm expecting several months at least. As it happens, I am also working on such a device. Similar ETA (if it ever gets past prototype - needed adequate motivation).

Should expect to see the grainfathers on the market in the next week or two (hopefully the former!) Pre-ordered mine. Eagerly awaiting news.


----------



## MastersBrewery

The grainfather uses a lower model stc which has a 10k NTC probe, the simplest solution to step mash would then be a hacked stc1000. The guys over at HBT have been working on the firmware for a while. The STC1000+ firmware I believe is complete and aimed at fermentation steps. The next iteration is aimed at mashing it's using the PI part of PID to control temps I don't know if they are at release yet but for a cheap plug in upgrade might be the way to go for some check it out here


----------



## Snow

Well I'm convinced and ordered a Grainfather from Santa 

For those of you who have one, have you managed to make it work with Beersmith? eg what equipment profile did you use?

Cheers - Snow.


----------



## Batz

Snow said:


> Well I'm convinced and ordered a Grainfather from Santa
> 
> For those of you who have one, have you managed to make it work with Beersmith? eg what equipment profile did you use?
> 
> Cheers - Snow.



Merry Christmas Snow! :super:

Looks like a nice piece of brew porn, I look forward to seeing some pictures.
You will be able to use Beersmith, plenty of BM owners do.

Batz


----------



## moodgett

Woot joined the club of pre orders 

Oh by the way. With the testing being done. What has the total grain bill amount been?
And on another note. Does the unit ship with some cleaner?


----------



## aamcle

Just a quick question, what is the mesh size (holes per inch) of the top filter plate?

I'm supposed to be building a Breweasy type I've even modified a float valve for the auto sparge. 
With typical indecision, I was dumb enough to start thinking about it, I find I like the idea of no moving parts and a constant Max flow through the system. 

Many Thanks. Aamcle


----------



## Snow

Batz said:


> Merry Christmas Snow! :super:
> 
> Looks like a nice piece of brew porn, I look forward to seeing some pictures.
> You will be able to use Beersmith, plenty of BM owners do.
> 
> Batz


Oh you will, Batz! Brew porn comin your way.

 :beerbang:


----------



## HBHB

moodgett said:


> Woot joined the club of pre orders
> 
> Oh by the way. With the testing being done. What has the total grain bill amount been?
> And on another note. Does the unit ship with some cleaner?


We've done 9.00kg, 8.7, 7.6, 7.4, 6.9, and yesterday an 8.87on a huge Double Chocolate Oatmeal Stout But, most have been in the range of 3.6 kg through 5.8kg.

There will be a container of their cleaner shipped with each unit to get you through the first few batches.


----------



## moodgett

HBHB said:


> We've done 9.00kg, 8.7, 7.6, 7.4, 6.9, and yesterday an 8.87on a huge Double Chocolate Oatmeal Stout But, most have been in the range of 3.6 kg through 5.8kg.
> 
> There will be a container of their cleaner shipped with each unit to get you through the first few batches.


Thanks for that HBHB 

What sort of water to grain ratio were you using?


----------



## denemc

I've done a handful of brews on my GF and as an early adopter with the first generation model I've experienced the problems that are well documented. Excluding the chiller none of these problems are big and generally they will be fixed in the next model due out soon. The old chiller was a complete disaster and I'm pleased that this has been redesigned. They are also replacing all of the first generation chillers at no cost - not many companies would go that far. These guys are going to look after their customers.

As far as quality goes I'm pretty happy. The components aren't braumeister quality but they also aren't rubbish. Their goal was to keep the price down and the quality at a reasonable level and they have achieved that.

My brew day is 5 hours from filling my strike water to finishing cleaning. But most of the first few hours it's just doing it's thing heating strike water or pumping through the mash so you aren't really doing much - I could probably bring this down further by being more efficient. The beer quality is excellent and if you know what you are doing you can minimise the trub. A hop spider is a must.

My brew days on the Grainfather are the easiest I have ever had. Coming from BIAB to a 3v and now to the GF my brew days are stress free and I can spend more time refining my technique and recipes rather than worrying about upgrades, breakdowns and so on. There's a great community online and I have started a Grainfather Users group on facebook.

I have typically used 4.5-6 kg of grain no problem and it's obvious that you can use a larger grain bill as the mash basket is huge. I've even talked to guys that have done double batches with 9 kg of grain and top it up in the fermenter. Mash efficiency is around 85% and brewhouse around 76%. 

This truly is a fantastic system and I don't know of anyone who had purchased one that regrets it. I sound like a fan boy here, but when I first saw the GF I thought it was rubbish - after using it I'd never go back to a 3v as there's not really anything on a 3v that can't be done on the GF. In fact the equivalent 3v with step mashing, recirculation, pumps, 85% efficiency and a counterflow chiller would cost a lot more than the GF.

Dene


----------



## Snow

Thanks for the great review, HG. Makes me feel even better that I've put an order in!

Do you use Beersmith for recipe formulation? If so, do you mind sharing what settings you are using for the equipment profile?

Cheers - Snow


----------



## denemc

I've got the GF Profile from the manufacturer that I'm using. It's available in the Grainfather Users Group on FB as a download and you can just import it, or here's a screen shot.


----------



## Snow

Hairy Goat said:


> I've got the GF Profile from the manufacturer that I'm using. It's available in the Grainfather Users Group on FB as a download and you can just import it, or here's a screen shot.


Awesome, thanks HG!


----------



## HBHB

moodgett said:


> Thanks for that HBHB
> 
> What sort of water to grain ratio were you using?


Been following the simple formula supplied for simplicity. Works.

(Grain weight in kg X 2.7) + 3.5 = strike (mash) water

(28-Mash water) + (Grain bill kg x 0.8) = sparge water volume

Pretty much hits around the 28L mark preboil which works


----------



## Parks

Snow said:


> Makes me feel even better that I've put an order in!


Hang on, I thought you said Santa was bringing you one??


----------



## Snow

It was in my letter to Santa, dufus!


----------



## gotsomecraic

Here in Melbourne the grainfather is goin for $995, spirit gear costs extra


----------



## bradsbrew

What is that funny looking lid worth.


----------



## aamcle

The Grainfather seems to be set up for a batch size of about 25 litres can it also do a batch of 12 litres?

Thanks. Aamcle


----------



## HBHB

Good question. don't see why not.


----------



## aamcle

And another question.

What are the dimensions of the boiler not including the stand just the bit the water goes in?

Diameter, Depth (inside) and volume?

Many Thanks. Aamcle


----------



## hughbert

What stores in Melbourne are selling this guy?


----------



## gotsomecraic

The onestopbar shop in Mornington was getting it in.


----------



## MCHammo

A bit of a heads up; they've started shipping units out to retailers. Your local homebrew shop should be receiving stock early next week. Also, the Aussie site is online now to order, browse, etc.


----------



## Spiesy

gotsomecraic said:


> The onestopbar shop in Mornington was getting it in.


So, nobody in Melbourne then.


----------



## BadSeed

bradsbrew said:


> What is that funny looking lid worth.


$440 from their website.
http://www.grainfather.co.nz/#!online-store/c8k/!/Alembic-Pot-Still-Attachments/p/39832445/category=10695014


----------



## Bribie G

The thing that would concern me if I was going to be an "early adopter" ... as with most things new like my 37" LCD that cost $4,000 in 2006 and died after two years, early mobile phones etc, is that you are really paying a grand to be their test bed. So apart from the price vs Braumeister, the repair and return arrangements would have to be bulletproof.

On the other hand, products such as the Aussie made Crown Urn are generally dead reliable nowadays. TBH I wouldn't mind going Grainfather myself if and when the urn dies, as I'm not brewing as much nowadays and a more compact system would be an advantage, but I wouldn't even consider one until at least page 30 on this forum in the "Grainmaster problems, tricks and tips" topic.

And believe me there _*will *_be such a topic. 

edit: make that Grainfather, see, that just slipped out, now wouldn't that have been a better name as pointed out earlier in the thread.


----------



## BadSeed

Bribie G said:


> The thing that would concern me if I was going to be an "early adopter" ... as with most things new like my 37" LCD that cost $4,000 in 2006 and died after two years, early mobile phones etc, is that you are really paying a grand to be their test bed. So apart from the price vs Braumeister, the repair and return arrangements would have to be bulletproof.
> 
> On the other hand, products such as the Aussie made Crown Urn are generally dead reliable nowadays. TBH I wouldn't mind going Grainfather myself if and when the urn dies, as I'm not brewing as much nowadays and a more compact system would be an advantage, but I wouldn't even consider one until at least page 30 on this forum in the "Grainmaster problems, tricks and tips" topic.
> 
> And believe me there _*will *_be such a topic.
> 
> edit: make that Grainfather, see, that just slipped out, now wouldn't that have been a better name as pointed out earlier in the thread.


One of the great things about forums like this.

To their credit It looks like the Grainfather people are fairly responsive to forums and issues raised in them. Hopefully this great service will last.



> You may have heard of leaking issues from the wort chiller on forums etc, and we'd like to reassure you that those issues were fixed and the items you will receive are the new improved versions. Anyone who has one of the first ones will also have theirs replaced.


----------



## Batz

I watched Martin from National Home Brew demonstrate one of these in Gympie yesterday, I was quite impressed. :beerbang: For under a grand I think these are going to prove very popular.

Batz


----------



## HBHB

We've been dealing with the parent company/supplier for 4.5 years now. Any issue that has arisen has been dealt with professionally, quickly and smoothly. Signs of a supplier with solid people at the helm that back their gear 100%. The Grainfather will be death with in the same manner should any issues arise.

That said, it also falls back to the retailer to take care of business as it should be and with 100% confidence that the customer is put first.

I'm also pretty confident that if the unit was going to have issues, the workload we've put on our teaching and display unit would have made it have a brain fart by now. It's copped some use and abuse, but keeps on keeping on.


----------



## dammag

I could see me buying one in a moment of weakness. Looks like good value.


----------



## Bomber Watson

As above, i've been running sums on finishing the 4v i've been slowly setting up compared to this rig....The efficiencies and ramp times etc i've been seeing from the reviews are fantastic....Need to corner the owner of the LHBS hehe....


----------



## Batz

I don't think you could build a stainless brewery with a chiller for the price. Buy one and your brewing the day it arrives.


----------



## HBHB

hughbert said:


> What stores in Melbourne are selling this guy?


Most HBS in Melbourne will be able to access them. Like all things brewing related, whether they choose to stock them will be up to the store owners.


----------



## panzerd18

HBHB said:


> Most HBS in Melbourne will be able to access them. Like all things brewing related, whether they choose to stock them will be up to the store owners.


I think worldwide demand is going to be huge.


----------



## real_beer

If it hasn't been linked here yet this YouTube video gives a good first time user out of the box review:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zY29_865C8o


----------



## Bribie G

Busier than a one armed painter with the crabs :lol:

And now for the cleanup.

Thanks for the video, real_beer, will stick with my current tried and tested, and simple, system.


----------



## Bridges

Bribie G said:


> Busier than a one armed painter with the crabs :lol:


Looked OK to me. The vid condenses the whole brew into 30 mins he only actually shows you the bits when he is doing something, also his first go at it. I seem way busier when I brew. I currently biab with a 32litre pot on a burner and generally when I'm brewing I'm also looking after kids, mowing the lawn or doing 6 other tasks so it seriously tempts me. As I thought it looked pretty straight forward. I just wish I could get it cheaper and without the chiller as I think I'd never use it, happy with no chill currently.


----------



## Bribie G

That's another point, in NZ and UK, the mains water is bloody freezing in most places and there's no shortage of it. Quite the opposite in much of Australia. If it came without the chiller and a couple of hundred cheaper that would be a bonus.


----------



## Linz

picked mine up today and assembled it and now need some time to play with it


----------



## Linz

meant to ask last night if there's been a hack on the cleaning substance...ie: sod perc(no name nappy wash)??

noticed it lists the chemicals but wondered if we have a chem guru who knows a general access item that is the same??

contains sodium metasilicate and tetrasodium EDTA......WOW caustic burns??


----------



## MCHammo

I have heard that the cleaner is mainly sodium metasilicate; a fairly common "brewers detergent". Not sure what the tetrasodium EDTA does to the mix, what percentage, or if there are any other ingredients.

I picked my Grainfather up during the week. All assembled and running some cleaner through it now, before the first brewday tomorrow.


----------



## Batz

Linz said:


> picked mine up today and assembled it and now need some time to play with it


I talked to someone in Gympie today who received theirs as well, couldn't knock his smile off with a stick! :lol:


----------



## AndrewQLD

Linz said:


> meant to ask last night if there's been a hack on the cleaning substance...ie: sod perc(no name nappy wash)??
> 
> noticed it lists the chemicals but wondered if we have a chem guru who knows a general access item that is the same??
> 
> contains sodium metasilicate and tetrasodium EDTA......WOW caustic burns??


Still Spirits the company are very good at this, they make a product and then develop "support" products that will facilitate the use of the original product. It really is good business sense.


----------



## HBHB

MCHammo said:


> I have heard that the cleaner is mainly sodium metasilicate; a fairly common "brewers detergent". Not sure what the tetrasodium EDTA does to the mix, what percentage, or if there are any other ingredients.
> I picked my Grainfather up during the week. All assembled and running some cleaner through it now, before the first brewday tomorrow.


Sodium meta silicate and a chelating agent. Good cleaner, but wear gloves.

Used some this morning and it's certainly a bloody good cleaning agent.

Andrew.....yup.

Spoke to one of the guys who got an early Christmas present about a half hr ago . 0.012 points OG over his BIAB recipe favourite and he's stoked.


----------



## wambesi

Does it come with a specific cleaner? 

Surely PBW or other similar things would work fine.


----------



## Maverick

Hi guys,

Just managed to secure one of the last Grainfathers in the Xmas shipment from the lads over at Brewers Choice in Brisbane. 

I've been contemplating a Braumeister system for about 8 months but could not justify the price given how many BIAB'ers are on these forums producing some brilliant (sounding) beers with much less outlay and a bit of good old fashion hard work. 

So about to pick up an Urn based system and saw the Grainfather - what a great balance for price point, features and quality. I think there has been a hole in the market for a while at that point which these guys are going to plug up well. 

My XP in brewing is limited, a few kit and kilo's, fresh wort kits and watching mates do their BIAB's so this is going to be my first 'all-grain' xp. Hoping to become a bit more active on this forum through it all too. 

Not sure where to post this next question, so please advise if this is not the spot, but I'm wanting to tailor a recipe from Brewing Classic Styles (only cause i have the book) but am a bit concerned about 'scaling' the recipe to the Grainfather brewing instructions in terms of mash in water volumes and sparge water volumes for the Grainfather as the BCS book is simple single infusion with no sparge. 
Any advice or guidance would be greatly appreciated. I'm thinking to start with a simple APA to get things off the ground but welcome any advice 

Peace out and Merry xmas!

Mav


----------



## Tahoose

Do you have any brewing software? Brewmate is free to download, if you plug in your ingredients into that and then go to the brew day tab it will tell you "total water required".

I'd assume with this sort of system and a reasonable crush that you should be ok in assuming 75% efficiency for your first brew.


----------



## wynnum1

The all grain kits seem a little over priced


----------



## Maverick

Tahoose said:


> Do you have any brewing software? Brewmate is free to download, if you plug in your ingredients into that and then go to the brew day tab it will tell you "total water required".
> 
> I'd assume with this sort of system and a reasonable crush that you should be ok in assuming 75% efficiency for your first brew.


Hi mate, yeah I've got BeerSmith (mobile) and managed to set up a rough profile with 75% efficiency to start of with and refine that over the average of about 5 brews I'd say. I guess i'm just a little hesitant to use a recipe from BCS and then use the simple grainfather calculations for mash/sparge water volumes. I'm probably overthinking it but I wanted to see what others had done or thought  I'll give it a go and see what happens!


----------



## bradsbrew

Mashed in at 9.10. Chilled, pitched and unit cleaned by 1.00.

Pretty happy with that.


----------



## HBHB

wynnum1 said:


> The all grain kits seem a little over priced


Certainly not as cheap as you could put it together yourself. But, Re-wholesaled weighed, Packaged as they are to have a decent shelf life and freighted to LHBS so they can be used by Brewers not quite up to speed with how to do it cheaper on their own, don't know how or where to source ingredients or off the major freight routes, they're reasonably priced since nobody works for a bowl of rice here. It's just one way to get a recipe together in a hurry if needed.


----------



## Blind Dog

Maverick said:


> Hi mate, yeah I've got BeerSmith (mobile) and managed to set up a rough profile with 75% efficiency to start of with and refine that over the average of about 5 brews I'd say. I guess i'm just a little hesitant to use a recipe from BCS and then use the simple grainfather calculations for mash/sparge water volumes. I'm probably overthinking it but I wanted to see what others had done or thought  I'll give it a go and see what happens!


You'll be fine. I've brewed s fair few BCSesque revipes (I just can't resist 'improving' the printed recipe) on a 20L BM without issue and don't see why the GF would be any different


----------



## Maverick

Blind Dog said:


> You'll be fine. I've brewed s fair few BCSesque revipes (I just can't resist 'improving' the printed recipe) on a 20L BM without issue and don't see why the GF would be any different


Thanks mate, thats good to know that someone is applying the BCS recipes on a similar system! I'm so excited. I cannot wait for it to arrive tomorrow!


----------



## wynnum1

HBHB said:


> Certainly not as cheap as you could put it together yourself. But, Re-wholesaled weighed, Packaged as they are to have a decent shelf life and freighted to LHBS so they can be used by Brewers not quite up to speed with how to do it cheaper on their own, don't know how or where to source ingredients or off the major freight routes, they're reasonably priced since nobody works for a bowl of rice here. It's just one way to get a recipe together in a hurry if needed.


Buying off , one of the online sellers in your state probably easier , cheaper and fresher .


----------



## slcmorro

Because I've had too many and it's XMas Day, I can't be arsed searching. Is anyone kind enough to list the Aus Distributors of the Grainfather here?


----------



## HBHB

slcmorro said:


> Because I've had too many and it's XMas Day, I can't be arsed searching. Is anyone kind enough to list the Aus Distributors of the Grainfather here?


Pretty much nearly any bricks and mortar HBS will be able to source them mate.

Or do you want the wholesale distributors?


----------



## buck_star

I have got grain father cost me 900 kiwi, and loving it makes life easier.


----------



## bradsbrew

Certainly does. I done a 3 hr no chill this morning. Done by 10.30.


----------



## iambj

Funny old 3V systems are a thing of the past, remember some that had a HERMS thing attached to it as well? 4V :lol: :lol:

They worked but so antiquated these days.


----------



## aamcle

Bradsbrew/Buck_Star

Congrats on your new systems, liking what I've heard about the GF.

May I ask what is the diameter of the central overflow pipe? 15 or 22mm or bigger?

Thanks. Aamcle


----------



## aamcle

Many thanks. Aamcle


----------



## paulmclaren11

As a BM owner - a question to others who run a BM - would you consider selling up and getting one of these?


----------



## Crusty

paulmclaren11 said:


> As a BM owner - a question to others who run a BM - would you consider selling up and getting one of these?


No.


----------



## tiprya

I think my Braumeister is a nicer piece of kit, much simpler and more programmable, so I wouldn't sell it.

Having said that, it's not 2.5x as good, if the grainfather was around when I bought my braumeister, I think I would have saved my coin and gotten the grainfather.


----------



## dicko

Crusty said:


> No.


I think the GF is a good concept but it has a way to go to be as user friendly as the German Godfather :lol: :lol:

:icon_chickcheers: :icon_cheers:


----------



## Crusty

dicko said:


> I think the GF is a good concept but it has a way to go to be as user friendly as the German Godfather :lol: :lol:
> 
> :icon_chickcheers: :icon_cheers:


I haven't seen one in the flesh so I can't really give an honest opinion but what little of it I have seen, it looks ok & certainly a step up from the Urn if you want the step mashing capabilities. Sure, you can do anything in the Urn as well but it's a darn site harder doing it manually. The price point is pretty good & it's not going to make less of a beer than the more expensive BM but I'm with the boys from Germany on this one. The BM has a very accurate temp control unit, I like the malt pipe, I now have both sizes & the workmanship is pretty awesome. Is it worth an extra couple of grand???? Probably not but I'm stoked that I own one.
It all boils down to what you can afford really & the reviews on the GF seem pretty positive.


----------



## tiprya

If urns are $300-400, then I reckon the grainfather is a bargain. [SIZE=14.1666660308838px]Comes with temp control, and a chiller - you'd have to be pretty skint to use an[/SIZE] urn for BIAB now.


----------



## Feldon

tiprya said:


> If urns are $300-400, then I reckon the grainfather is a bargain. [SIZE=14.16px]Comes with temp control, and a chiller - you'd have to be pretty skint to use an[/SIZE] urn for BIAB now.


And so, in the final days of the fourteenth year of the new millennium the Urn Wars began...


----------



## Bomber Watson

R2 Urn2?

Had a chat with the owner of the LHBS yesterday morning, he will have one in stock shortly....

So, the only question in my mind, do i buy one now, or wait six months and see if they bring out any more flash options....Hmmm. 

Cheers.


----------



## Autopilot80

Feldon said:


> And so, in the final days of the fourteenth year of the new millennium the Urn Wars began...


... and to the victor the spoils, they urn'd it.


----------



## wambesi

I thought I'd share my first brew day on the Grainfather - http://bit.ly/1xAWHzU

I was going to do a video but that will come in a brew day or two time.


----------



## slcmorro

Am I right in assuming that there are no units anywhere left for sale in Aus at the moment?


----------



## panzerd18

slcmorro said:


> Am I right in assuming that there are no units anywhere left for sale in Aus at the moment?


Sunbury home brew has one for sale in store.


----------



## iambj

slcmorro said:


> Am I right in assuming that there are no units anywhere left for sale in Aus at the moment?


http://www.nationalhomebrew.com.au/grainfather-brewing-system/equipment-pots-hardware-grainfather


----------



## Bomber Watson

Awesome mate.


----------



## MastersBrewery

also one on display at country brewer, didn't ask about stock, though maybe I NEED to h34r:


----------



## Mattrox

There was one on display in the LHBS on Henley Beach Rd here in Adelaide. Impressive looking kit. A bit more compact IRL than I imagined. 

I'll have to either squirrel money away or be a very good boy.


----------



## Linz

HBHB said:


> Sodium meta silicate and a chelating agent. Good cleaner, but wear gloves.
> 
> Used some this morning and it's certainly a bloody good cleaning agent.
> 
> Andrew.....yup.
> 
> Spoke to one of the guys who got an early Christmas present about a half hr ago . 0.012 points OG over his BIAB recipe favourite and he's stoked.



So will the sodium percabonate(nappy wash) do any damage?


----------



## drtomc

I'm not a chemist, but.... I think sodium per carbonate should be fine, but it probably won't be as effective as their cleaner.

T.


----------



## wambesi

Linz said:


> So will the sodium percabonate(nappy wash) do any damage?


Nope, the machine is SS and copper (chiller) and I think sodium percarbonate based cleaners should be fine - I used PBW this morning on mine.

Reference: Palmer - http://www.howtobrew.com/appendices/appendixB.html


----------



## Snow

Just wondering - is it really necessary to run the cleaning solution through the system after EVERY brew? Just thinking a bit of hot water would suffice with a chemical clean every third brew or so. I can imagine it would get pretty expensive using the grainfaher cleaner after every brew.

Cheers - Snow.


----------



## wambesi

Snow said:


> Just wondering - is it really necessary to run the cleaning solution through the system after EVERY brew? Just thinking a bit of hot water would suffice with a chemical clean every third brew or so. I can imagine it would get pretty expensive using the grainfaher cleaner after every brew.
> 
> Cheers - Snow.


What do you do with your current system? My old system used to get a bit of a scrub with some recirculated PBW then water - pretty much the same as this one.

You could get away with hot water in between, at the end of the day it's pre-cooling contact but I figure it's not that expensive - mind you I'm using PBW on mine.


----------



## HBHB

As far as I know sodium percarbonate doesn't do any harm to soft metals when it's used as it should be ie washed or soaked as needed and then rinsed off. About a month ago I took a disused sparge head and dropped it in sodium percarbonate and left it in there until today. Not pretty. Moral of the story is if you use it, clean and then rinse well. Should add, I've never seen Sodium percarbonate make his sort of mess before and 1 month sitting in it is rather extreme exposure.

At the end of the day, what you use is up to you. The manufacturers have put together a cleaning agent that won't hurt your gear, works well and will stop the build up of scale in the plumbing and pump. Those who use ball valves will know all too well the familiar brown scale/stone that builds up in them from malt.


----------



## wambesi

HBHB said:


> As far as I know sodium percarbonate doesn't do any harm to soft metals when it's used as it should be ie washed or soaked as needed and then rinsed off. About a month ago I took a disused sparge head and dropped it in sodium percarbonate and left it in there until today. Not pretty. Moral of the story is if you use it, clean and then rinse well. Should add, I've never seen Sodium percarbonate make his sort of mess before and 1 month sitting in it is rather extreme exposure.
> 
> At the end of the day, what you use is up to you. The manufacturers have put together a cleaning agent that won't hurt your gear, works well and will stop the build up of scale in the plumbing and pump. Those who use ball valves will know all too well the familiar brown scale/stone that builds up in them from malt.
> 
> 
> 
> image.jpg


I spoke with the reps from NZ and it's only SS and copper that is in contact with the liquid. Palmer says himself in his book that PBW and other percarbonate cleaners are fine with all that.

But you're right - I wouldn't leave it soak for a long time. With the metals I've always recirculated (with the HERMS system) with PBW, then a rinse (water) recirculation so it's really no different.

My fermenters soak in PBW for a day or so though - they come out very nice and clean with minimal effort.


----------



## stevodevo

Just checking out the US Kickstarter promo video. If I'm not mistaken, it looks like they're testing a flow control valve for the re-circulation pipe on the model they're standing next to  That's one of the first mods I was thinking I'd do if I decide on a Grainfather.

https://d2pq0u4uni88oo.cloudfront.net/projects/1603201/video-491848-h264_high.mp4

I'm currently doing my own head in big time trying to decide between this and a Braumeister. The BM is what it is... but damn the GF in my opinion just seems a bit more versatile, especially if/when they add a PID controller to automate things a bit more.

According to the kickstarter promo, they'll be using some of the funds raised to go towards R&D of a phone app. I'd love to be a fly on their boardroom wall so I knew how far away the next round of revisions are. Personally, I'd pay a bit more for a few of the wish list items that people on here have discussed. Read into that, I'm not a good early adopter that copes well when something is superseded soon after taking the plunge. Hey I'm willing to frop $2.5K for a BM, but I'm just not convinced it's an overall "better" unit at its core (when you strip away the automation and bling) than the GF. I'm happy to be convinced otherwise, because I'd love a good reason to justify the BM  I'm currently looking around for some good leads on people using a replacement controller with success (mathos/ardbir etc). That would pretty much seal the deal on a GF for me I reckon.

Sorry... this was just supposed to be a quick post to point out what I spotted on the video... took the opportunity to vent some of my analysis paralysis. And with that, I'm heading back to find more "BM vs XYZ" discussions...


----------



## stux

stevodevo said:


> I'm currently looking around for some good leads on people using a replacement controller with success (mathos/ardbir etc). That would pretty much seal the deal on a GF for me I reckon.


Enoch has done it

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/59563-mathos-controller/page-75#entry1260629


----------



## Cervantes

paulmclaren11 said:


> As a BM owner - a question to others who run a BM - would you consider selling up and getting one of these?


No


----------



## hughbert

Stux said:


> Enoch has done it
> 
> http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/59563-mathos-controller/page-75#entry1260629


The new BrewPi Spark should be able to do it too.


----------



## Blind Dog

stevodevo said:


> Just checking out the US Kickstarter promo video. If I'm not mistaken, it looks like they're testing a flow control valve for the re-circulation pipe on the model they're standing next to  That's one of the first mods I was thinking I'd do if I decide on a Grainfather.
> 
> https://d2pq0u4uni88oo.cloudfront.net/projects/1603201/video-491848-h264_high.mp4
> 
> I'm currently doing my own head in big time trying to decide between this and a Braumeister. The BM is what it is... but damn the GF in my opinion just seems a bit more versatile, especially if/when they add a PID controller to automate things a bit more.
> 
> According to the kickstarter promo, they'll be using some of the funds raised to go towards R&D of a phone app. I'd love to be a fly on their boardroom wall so I knew how far away the next round of revisions are. Personally, I'd pay a bit more for a few of the wish list items that people on here have discussed. Read into that, I'm not a good early adopter that copes well when something is superseded soon after taking the plunge. Hey I'm willing to frop $2.5K for a BM, but I'm just not convinced it's an overall "better" unit at its core (when you strip away the automation and bling) than the GF. I'm happy to be convinced otherwise, because I'd love a good reason to justify the BM  I'm currently looking around for some good leads on people using a replacement controller with success (mathos/ardbir etc). That would pretty much seal the deal on a GF for me I reckon.
> 
> Sorry... this was just supposed to be a quick post to point out what I spotted on the video... took the opportunity to vent some of my analysis paralysis. And with that, I'm heading back to find more "BM vs XYZ" discussions...


I dont see why it should be doing your head in. They both make wort, they both do it bloody well (BM from personal experience; GF from reports here and elsewhere), the pros and cons of each are different but I've yet to find a fatal flaw in the BM and haven't heard of one for the GF. They are built to different price points, but that's stating the obvious. Try to see both in action, assess what you want to achieve with the unit you choose, and then buy it. BM or GF, reckon you'll be as happy as a pig in s*** either way :beerbang:

(edit - PS: what's with the bloke randomly wobbling around at the start of the video?)


----------



## Paulbroad

[SIZE=small]I only found out about the GF when I dropped into my LHBS to buy a hydrometer and had to wait a couple of minute to pay for it. I asked the guy what the flash looking rig was on the shelf, was told about the GF and the price, and I went away and read about it. I’d had some money burning a hole in my pocket for a little while, and was fortunate enough to be able to buy one the same week.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=small]I ran my first brew through it on Sunday (a Black IPA with an OG of 1067) and have to admit that I’m more than just a little bit smitten with my new brew rig. I can’t get over just how easy it makes a brew day, and in particular how easy it is to clean.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=small] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=small]I hit up near 80% efficiency, where my previous BIAB setup I’d only hit 65%. I’ll admit to a likely amount of user error on the BIAB system, but this just blew me away. I told my wife that I’d save a heap of money on grain with the improved efficiency, to which her only response way “Don’t’ think you’re brewing every weekend to try and recoup the money you spent on the system!”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=small]Safe to say a very happy brewer here. Thanks to the guys who have posted the Beer Smith profile as well. It’s made things even less complicated.[/SIZE]


----------



## JB

To the guys who've taken the plunge already, is this a system you'd feel confident recommending to a friend who was looking to get into brewing?


----------



## wambesi

JB said:


> To the guys who've taken the plunge already, is this a system you'd feel confident recommending to a friend who was looking to get into brewing?


Without a doubt.


----------



## Cervantes

Grainfather - Quality Control.

I hope the QC on the build is better than it is on the advertising.

I notice in this edition of BYO Magazine the advert claims that the Grainfather can hold up to 2lb of grain.................


----------



## radearling

Any chance someone with a GF could tell me the hole diameter in the bottom perforated plate? looks about 2mm but not quite sure


----------



## wambesi

Cervantes said:


> Grainfather - Quality Control.
> 
> I hope the QC on the build is better than it is on the advertising.
> 
> I notice in this edition of BYO Magazine the advert claims that the Grainfather can hold up to 2lb of grain.................
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grainfather.JPG


No it's really crap, don't buy it.


----------



## wambesi

radearling said:


> Any chance someone with a GF could tell me the hole diameter in the bottom perforated plate? looks about 2mm but not quite sure


Smack on buddy, the holes are 2mm.


----------



## chopdog

Should I buy one of these today? I have a 3v Gravity fed system at the moment. I was looking at upgrading to a single level using the bunnings racking, 2 pumps and hard plumbed gas lines. I've always looked at the bm as sort of cheating( anyone can download a recipe and add grain to a machine). These days I'm always busy and don't get to brew no where near as much as I would like too, and find myself drinking shit mega swill at home. I'm now considering a bm or gf, is it cheating??? Should I keep my current system as is and buy the gf? Should I get rid of my current system as I won't use it once I get a bm or gf?? Thoughts????


----------



## Spiesy

chopdog said:


> Should I buy one of these today? I have a 3v Gravity fed system at the moment. I was looking at upgrading to a single level using the bunnings racking, 2 pumps and hard plumbed gas lines. I've always looked at the bm as sort of cheating( anyone can download a recipe and add grain to a machine). These days I'm always busy and don't get to brew no where near as much as I would like too, and find myself drinking shit mega swill at home. I'm now considering a bm of gf, is it cheating??? Should I keep my current system as is and buy the gf? Should I get rid of my current system as I won't use it once I get a bm or gf?? Thoughts????
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1423692562.960161.jpg


gf = girlfriend, right?


----------



## hughbert

i don't see how it's cheating. sure it might make it easier, hardly cheating. you're still making it from scratch. just doing it a different way.


----------



## wambesi

It's not cheating at all. Just a different way to brew. 

I sold my HERMS brewery for this and have no regrets at all.


----------



## Darrens

I cant wait to get one of these units.... My mates about to get one . I have to wait till tax time what a buggar.. From all the research I have done im not finding anyone unhappy with their purchase . I will be stepping up from extract / steeping grain etc and cant wait .

Darren.


----------



## hughbert

i'm hopefully picking one up in the next few days. eh Spiesy? gunna be great!


----------



## chopdog

I ended up getting it this arvo, do most of you guys use the formula's supplied. Was there much adjustment needed to your previous recipes?


----------



## meathead

The formula in the instructions is a good guide and there is a beersmith profile available
Enjoy


----------



## Paulbroad

chopdog said:


> I ended up getting it this arvo, do most of you guys use the formula's supplied. Was there much adjustment needed to your previous recipes?


Chop
Only picked mine up last Saturday, and used the formulas supplied. Boiled for 90 minutes so was a bit low into the cube volume wise, but knocked the efficiency out if the park. 

Can't wait to brew again. Haven't really checked adjustment to previous recipes, but suspect it's going to be an efficiency adjustment.


----------



## enoch

chopdog said:


> I ended up getting it this arvo, do most of you guys use the formula's supplied. Was there much adjustment needed to your previous recipes?


Formulae are good but you do need to use less water than stated as you go much over 8kg of grain. V hard to get the top plate in otherwise.
Suggest you have the water available but hold back 2-3 litres to add after you've mixed in grain and then add it if it will fit.
I've been brewing strong and then pitching on to 10 litres of water in the fermenter to stretch to 35 litres.


----------



## Spiesy

hughbert said:


> i'm hopefully picking one up in the next few days. eh Spiesy? gunna be great!


Should be today or Monday, my good man. Not long now!


----------



## wambesi

The old _"your mileage may vary"_ is important here when it comes to calculations.
I've found I need the normal amount of water specified from the formula and the last brew actually required about 2 litres more.

There are a number of reasons why - dare say mine is because I'm adjusting my crush each brew do find a sweet spot.

My advice is, for the first brew stick to the GF calculations and then test and adjust from there.

Enjoy!


----------



## carniebrew

I've read back a bit but haven't seen these q's yet, apologies if they've been answered. For owners of the GF, can you tell me:

1. How long does it take to reach strike temp generally?
2. Does it save the last temp when powered off? As in, can you fill it the night before, then use a timer for it to power on in the morning and heat to strike temps with no interaction?
3. Does it need a 15a circuit or is 10a ok?


----------



## HBHB

carniebrew said:


> I've read back a bit but haven't seen these q's yet, apologies if they've been answered. For owners of the GF, can you tell me:
> 
> 1. How long does it take to reach strike temp generally?
> 2. Does it save the last temp when powered off? As in, can you fill it the night before, then use a timer for it to power on in the morning and heat to strike temps with no interaction?
> 3. Does it need a 15a circuit or is 10a ok?


1. Depends on temp
2. Yep & yep if the timer is suitably rated
3.10a


----------



## carniebrew

HBHB said:


> 1. Depends on temp
> 2. Yep & yep if the timer is suitably rated
> 3.10a


Thanks and sorry, that was a big vague. Can you estimate how quickly it heats from say 20C to 70C if you're indoors at ambient room temps?


----------



## Snow

carniebrew said:


> Thanks and sorry, that was a big vague. Can you estimate how quickly it heats from say 20C to 70C if you're indoors at ambient room temps?


Dunno about 20c, but I put hot water in (55c) and it takes about 10-12 mins to get to strike.


----------



## carniebrew

Well given the heating source it should be pretty linear, so that suggests about 1.5 degrees per minute. Thanks.


----------



## dperry586

Hi guys,
New to brewing and the forum. Picking up my GF next week and can't wait to get brewing. Here's hoping I'll have plenty of tales of success / failure / fun to share with you all soon.


----------



## mudd

One of these having its maiden brew at Melbourne brewers Monster Brew Day this Sunday 12 April.

Details
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/85903-monster-brew-day-melb-brewers/

For some reason this doesn't show in recent threads, hoping to get a few people interested in coming along and seeing a few systems in action.

Cheers Mudd.


----------



## [email protected]!

Hi all

Just doing my second GF brew and wondering. Currently in the mash stage and there seems a lot of wart (the liquid, if that's what it's called) going down the overflow pipe, bypassing the mash bed. There is not much grain in there thankfully, but just wonder how much should be going down there?

Thanks,

Hawk


----------



## denemc

That's normal. It's designed to have a good flow to keep the wort moving so that it has a consistent temp throughout, rather than just hot spots in the bottom. As long as your wort clears as the mash goes along everything is ok.


----------



## slcmorro

[email protected]! said:


> wart


Wort* mate - wart sounds gross.


----------



## Julez

Hi all, 

Looks like an awesome package for the coin to me....I have a few questions though. 

1/ What are people's experience with the pump - reliability, frequency of blockages, etc., and what would a GF pump cost to replace if it packed it in? Are spares readily available? 
2/ Once you lift the malt pipe up to begin the sparge process, the mash is obviously not floating any more - have people experienced significant compaction issues/stuck sparges? 
3/ The SC-200 controller is a bit clumsy, though I agree with other comments that it is still a wicked overall package for the $. Any further updates on the rumoured PID option though? 

Cheers, 

Jules.


----------



## meathead

Julez said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Looks like an awesome package for the coin to me....I have a few questions though.
> 
> 1/ What are people's experience with the pump - reliability, frequency of blockages, etc., and what would a GF pump cost to replace if it packed it in? Are spares readily available?
> 
> I can't comment on spares etc although I've heard nothing but good things re their after sales service
> I've done at least 20 brews and had no issues with the pump
> 
> 2/ Once you lift the malt pipe up to begin the sparge process, the mash is obviously not floating any more - have people experienced significant compaction issues/stuck Sparge
> 
> I've done mainly 5-6 kg grain bills and only had a slow sparge when using a high % of wheat, I'm told rice hulls will fix this
> 
> 3/ The SC-200 controller is a bit clumsy, though I agree with other comments that it is still a wicked overall package for the $. Any further updates on the rumoured PID option though?
> 
> Can't comment on this other than to say I find the sc200 easy to use
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Jules.


----------



## slcmorro

1 - Never had an issue with the pump. I use a hop sock however.
2 - Never had a stuck sparge myself. I like to do a beta-glucan rest anyway, regardless of the grist.
3 - The SC200 is simple to use and does what it needs to.


----------



## wambesi

Jules,

1. Like others I've not had a problem with the pump at all, no blockages - but like others as well I've used a hop sock from day one and just moved to a stainless spider.

2. Stuck/slow sparges can happen depending on crush size but I've not had any stuck sparges - had some slow ones but that's from me playing.

3. The STC-200 is a simple and effective controller for the package, I don't agree with the clumsy comment as it does it's job very well. Keeps temp much better than my old esky MLT from years ago. We've not heard anything more about the PID option except the initial comments that it may be a future option but if you want to automate (rather than actual PID) then the STC1000+ BREW controller does all that. I'm not to fussed now about the PID as I initially was.

Spare are starting to appear in NZ, as are the "upgrade" parts for first generation buyers to upgrade to some of the new changes so they shouldn't be to far away and if you ever have a problem you just need to send the guys a message - their service and replies have been pretty bloody good.


----------



## Gregos

I bought a GF last week, did my first brew in it on Saturday, so simple to use, controller does the job, held the mash temp perfectly for 90mins,chiller worked well got down to pitching temp in 20mins with tap water @20deg, did a 5kg grain bill took 10mins to sparge.


----------



## meathead

Gregos said:


> I bought a GF last week, did my first brew in it on Saturday, so simple to use, controller does the job, held the mash temp perfectly for 90mins,chiller worked well got down to pitching temp in 20mins with tap water @20deg, did a 5kg grain bill took 10mins to sparge.


Just out of interest what was your procedure using the chiller?


----------



## Julez

Thanks for the info guys. I already factored in use of a hop spider. Good to see so many positive reviews of both product and service.

Wambesi, re the sc200, I just mean they are not quite as elegant in their usability or function compared to other controllers. I use one to control a fermentation fridge. Not knocking them, but a PID option would float my boat ☺
This wouldn't stop me from buying a GF though.

Cheers.


----------



## GibboQLD

Does anyone have/use the GF sparge water heater?

The image of the control knob on ibrew makes it look like it can be set between 45° & 110°, and I'm wondering whether it would hold a temperature well enough to be used for mashing/boiling for <15L mini-batches...


----------



## wambesi

Julez said:


> Thanks for the info guys. I already factored in use of a hop spider. Good to see so many positive reviews of both product and service.
> 
> Wambesi, re the sc200, I just mean they are not quite as elegant in their usability or function compared to other controllers. I use one to control a fermentation fridge. Not knocking them, but a PID option would float my boat ☺
> This wouldn't stop me from buying a GF though.
> 
> Cheers.


Jules, fair enough. Perhaps not as elegant but much simpler than some PIDs i've used in the past.
Most likely a PID version in the future sometime but no idea when.


----------



## Gregos

sjGibson

My brother has a GF sparge water heater, he swears by it, set's his sparge temp and it holds it until he's ready to sparge, says I'm crazy for not buying one, I have pot on gas stove, the down side with that is that you've got to keep checking temp of water and time it right for [email protected] $149 I seriously thinking about one.


----------



## Gregos

Meathead,

My just followed the instruction in the GF book, recycled the wort back into the pot until it ran cool, then transferred to fermenter.


----------



## GibboQLD

Gregos said:


> My brother has a GF sparge water heater, he swears by it, set's his sparge temp and it holds it until he's ready to sparge


Any chance you could get a photo of the inside of it? I imagine it'd probably need a false bottom if someone were to use it for mashing/boiling...


----------



## Julez

Hi guys. One more question. What are your thoughts on the location of the temp probe being so close to the element? Surely the water temp here would be higher than in the mash itself higher up the vessel? 

Cheers.


----------



## Smokomark

Julez said:


> Hi guys. One more question. What are your thoughts on the location of the temp probe being so close to the element? Surely the water temp here would be higher than in the mash itself higher up the vessel?
> Cheers.


Ideally you want to measure the highest temperature any part of the wort reaches. Not the temp of the bulk of the mash.
Temps will equalise with good flow thru the pump.


----------



## Julez

smokomark said:


> Ideally you want to measure the highest temperature any part of the wort reaches. Not the temp of the bulk of the mash.
> Temps will equalise with good flow thru the pump.


But if the probe is in the high temp zone surely the controller will cut power to the element prematurely before enough hot liquor has been pumped up top? I would be interested to know difference in temp in upper part of mash Vs where the controller is measuring. Even if there is a significant difference, I spose easy to compensate by notching the target temp up a degree or so if required, so no biggie really....

Cheers


----------



## McMelloW

Measured the temp with an alcohol thermometer at the end of the tube during recirc for a number of times. It was only a difference of 1°C. This could be also the difference between the STC-200 and the thermometer. I found it OK


----------



## HBHB

Julez said:


> But if the probe is in the high temp zone surely the controller will cut power to the element prematurely before enough hot liquor has been pumped up top? I would be interested to know difference in temp in upper part of mash Vs where the controller is measuring. Even if there is a significant difference, I spose easy to compensate by notching the target temp up a degree or so if required, so no biggie really....
> 
> Cheers


Not an issue, the temperature will be close enough. As a result of the flow of grain down through the grain bed, more than half of the wort returning to the base area will have come through the grain bed. During the mash process and recirculation, there's excellent flow through the base area where the element is and where the probe is. End result is good equalisation of temperatures. A deep probe placed 15cm into the mash will read less than 1 deg c difference between the mash bed temp and the wort temp where the probe is located. Most guys running 3V HERMS systems run their probe at the wort outflow point or close to it, but it's not necessarily a true picture of the temp deep inside the grain bed since the PID will turn the pump off once it reaches the target temp.


----------



## Julez

Good to know and makes sense.

Cheers ☺


----------



## WhiteLomu

sjgibson said:


> Does anyone have/use the GF sparge water heater?
> 
> The image of the control knob on ibrew makes it look like it can be set between 45° & 110°, and I'm wondering whether it would hold a temperature well enough to be used for mashing/boiling for <15L mini-batches...


You can't set the temperature accurately with the knob. It can be easily up to 5 degrees off target and needs to be checked with a thermometer.
Cheers


----------



## GibboQLD

WhiteLomu said:


> You can't set the temperature accurately with the knob. It can be easily up to 5 degrees off target and needs to be checked with a thermometer.
> Cheers


Thanks for that -- 5 degrees is a bit more drift than I'd like. Cheers!


----------



## SimoB

my GF and GF urn will be arriving Monday - pumped!


----------



## BrewedCrudeandBitter

Can anyone recommend a GF stockist in the Sydney area? I'm pretty keen to make full use of my tax refund.


----------



## welly2

My grainfather arrived today. Shame I wasn't home to collect it so it's gone back to the delivery depot. Bugger. Tomorrow then!


----------



## slcmorro

For anyone still unsure about the Grainfather, here are two shots of my Pilsner (Just Pils, Carapils and Saaz) I brewed today:
*Crystal clear wort going into the fermenter, down to 20c in 20mins with 11c tapwater using the CFC (I used 40L of water total for this, collected 25L and used it for cleaning)*




*Bottom of the unit after a 4 stage step mash, and the filter showing all the hop sediment (60 gm total thrown directly in) captured.*


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## tugger

BrewedCrudeandBitter said:


> Can anyone recommend a GF stockist in the Sydney area? I'm pretty keen to make full use of my tax refund.


The Campbelltown brew shop has a few in stock.


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## MCHammo

tugger said:


> The Campbelltown brew shop has a few in stock.


We also have a few at Peakhurst, and 90% sure we do at Kirrawee too.


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## pcmfisher

slcmorro said:


> *Bottom of the unit after a 4 stage step mash, and the filter showing all the hop sediment (60 gm total thrown directly in) captured.*


What are you using as a hop screen there?


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## slcmorro

pcmfisher said:


> What are you using as a hop screen there?


Nothing. That's the standard filter as is. All I used was a whirlfloc tab.


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## pcmfisher

slcmorro said:


> Nothing. That's the standard filter as is. All I used was a whirlfloc tab.


Can't complain about the clarity there.

Do you use a hop bag?


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## jc64

slcmorro said:


> Nothing. That's the standard filter as is. All I used was a whirlfloc tab.


I've also just been using the standard hop screen up to 150g of hops. Yet to have a problem


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## slcmorro

pcmfisher said:


> Can't complain about the clarity there.
> 
> Do you use a hop bag?


I do for most beers but in this one, no. That was the clarity I got even after having thrown 60gms direct into the boil loose.


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