# Do You Keep Track Of Your Brewing Costs ?



## Pumpy (8/3/09)

With the impending recession ( three consecutive periods of negative growth) 

My brewing costs have been coming under scrutiny frm SWMBO when checking her budget.

I have been accussed of significant 'Brewery Blowout costs to budget'

Some brews can be in excess of $80 per 40 litres whist some simple brews can be 50% less $40 per 40 litre batch so its worth keeping a track on these things .

In an attempt to monitor my costs per brew I have updated the prices on my Beersmith of my raw materials being more realistic about the costs for example. so Beersmith can give me a REALISTIC TOTAL COST PER BATCH 

These are unseen cost incurred in brewing which OK one accept but I would like to account for adding to the Misc in Beersmith tpo pick up these costs :- 

FREIGHT based on ( for 6Kg of speciality grain @ $ 9.00 per Post bag) eg 2kg of speciality grain in a recipe freight would be $3.00 (Ok sometimes I pick it up but then that incurs petrol cost .)

LPG/ENERGY in the recipe 2. KG of LPG @ $ 2.50 Kg to pick up energy costs 

CLEANERS SANITISERS & WATER nominal cost per batch of $1.50 

TIME 6 hours @ Zero $ per Hour ( just out of interest if you want to add a cost to it)

EQUIPMENT WEAR & TEAR & REPAIR broken thermometers , Hydrometers , Conical flasks $3.00 per brew (this cost could well be more based on breaking and replacing one a year )

SPOILT STOCK I have little which I dump .( however I did buy towo files of yeast at $20 out of date which failed to start ) that is about $1.00 per brew spoilt 
stock

CO2 RENTAL /PLUS GAS  (Edited thanks to Pollux suggestion) $ 120 per year divided by 19 X40 lite batches $6.31 per batch 

This is an exercise of not being 'pedantic about costs' but just realising the true value of a batch of our beloved brew .

Are there any other unseen costs I am missing :unsure: to help me manage my brewing oncosts .?


Pumpy the Scrooge


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## Pollux (8/3/09)

Do you keg? throw in CO2, or if you bottle throw in dex and bottle caps.....

I personally use the beersmith function to work out cost in terms of ingredients, more as a matter of interest than anything else....


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## jimmybee (8/3/09)

electricity...? depending if you have an electirc HLT or not i guess, do you use a fridge to contol the temp of the ferment...


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## tcraig20 (8/3/09)

I sort of do something like this.

I have a MS money file that I record all my brewing-related purchases in - yeast, malts, sanitisers, fermenters, etc. 

Every time I brew a batch of beer I 'pay' myself $50 into that file.

I started this for two reasons: first, when I was starting I wanted to make sure that I didnt go crazy buying stuff, so I set myself a $250 credit limit. By tracking everything I buy, I can see just how far into the red Ive crept. Second, by 'paying' myself $50 per batch, it lets me know when I can resonably justify buying more gear (and is a great way to stop any arguments about costs with the missus - each $50 'payed' is in fact $80-100 saved). 

At the moment, Im about $100 in credit, with plenty of consumables in stock. Now I just need to figure out what to spend it on.


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## Pumpy (8/3/09)

Pollux said:


> Do you keg? throw in CO2, or if you bottle throw in dex and bottle caps.....
> 
> I personally use the beersmith function to work out cost in terms of ingredients, more as a matter of interest than anything else....



Thats a really good One Pollux I have edited my post to include that as it was quite a high on cost if you rent a BOC cylinder like I do 

Pumpy


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## Pumpy (8/3/09)

jimmybee said:


> electricity...? depending if you have an electirc HLT or not i guess, do you use a fridge to contol the temp of the ferment...




Jimmybee ,I wonder what the cost odf running a fermentation fridge and a keg fridge a year must be at least $20 ? there must be a calculation based on the kW hour ?

Pumpy :unsure:


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## Pumpy (8/3/09)

JamesCraig said:


> I sort of do something like this.
> 
> I have a MS money file that I record all my brewing-related purchases in - yeast, malts, sanitisers, fermenters, etc.
> 
> ...




you are organised JC


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## jimmybee (8/3/09)

Pumpy said:


> Jimmybee ,I wonder what the cost odf running a fermentation fridge and a keg fridge a year must be at least $20 ? there must be a calculation based on the kW hour ?
> 
> Pumpy :unsure:



i'm not sure on this one, i was considering this same problem when looking at buy a new front loader washing machine the other day. some vary a bit on power consumption. i was wondering if it was really worth spending almost twice as much to lower energy cost a bit per year.

i'm sure there must be a calc for this.... anyone?

jimmy


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## Jazzafish (8/3/09)

Your right about the price Pumpy. Did a rough costing not long ago and find your $40 to $100 to be on par. But i'd give up drinking before returning to swill, as I couldn't afford the good stuff all the time.

Had a mate ask me to make a Hoegaarden type of beer. The cost of a yeast vial, fermentables, spices and hops was up around the $50-$60 for 25 Litres. Better that the $150 per case he was quoted... 

I look at home brewing as a double advantage of a hobby and also saving money on a quality product. 

FWIW, if things get that bad I'll move into blackmarket booze! Moonshiners still make good money... and less risk than making ice! Now I just need to think of an old school red neck gangster name... Maybe Not


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## SpillsMostOfIt (8/3/09)

You might consider this too pedantic.

There is the cost of not selling all your kit. Let's say you could get $1000 for all your beer-related stuff if you sold it right now. By not selling, you have cost yourself $1000.

Or, just put aside something for *cough* enhancements *cough* to the equipments...


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## Pollux (8/3/09)

Jazzafish said:


> I look at home brewing as a double advantage of a hobby and also saving money on a quality product.



Same, everyone needs a hobby, ours just happens to have a by product which we can then enjoy.....Better than golf, cheaper too..


As for power used by a fermentation fridge, jaycar sells a meter into which you can program your cost per kW and it will tell you how much an item would cost to run per year...


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## Jazzafish (8/3/09)

jimmybee said:


> i'm not sure on this one, i was considering this same problem when looking at buy a new front loader washing machine the other day. some vary a bit on power consumption. i was wondering if it was really worth spending almost twice as much to lower energy cost a bit per year.
> 
> i'm sure there must be a calc for this.... anyone?
> 
> jimmy



I hear you, like the old energy saving light bulbs! The cinema I work at had repalced all of the standard bulbs with dimmable compact fluros. Big cost to do, but they recon they will pay for themselves over 2 years, considering they last longer (less labour to change them) and the big reduction in kilowatt hours. Looked at doing it at home but it didn't add up doing it in the one hit like at work... simply less lights and no labour cost. But doing it over a period of time seems the way to go.

The easiest way test your fermenter fridge is to turn it off and compare the bills to when you didn't use it. Worth it?

There are so many variables with running them. Like outside temperature and what the brew is. If you really want to do it though, most sparkys have a unit that will measure the draw of your fridge in operation.


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## clean brewer (8/3/09)

Getting anal, but mortage/rent costs for the portion your brewery/fridge area takes up..  

When I started brewing last march, I started an Excel spreadsheet and put in everything(everything) I bought to do with brewing.. I broke it down into cost per carton based on ingredients and equipment and also just based on Ingredients..

The cost per carton based on everything was about the Cost per carton of commercial beer, around $40-$45 and obviously cheaper just based on ingredients, this gave me alot of help in convincing SWMBO that I could spend more.. The calculations also showed how much I saved by not buying commercial beer, good backup to get kegs, it all worked..


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## tcraig20 (8/3/09)

Jazzafish said:


> Moonshiners still make good money... and less risk than making ice!



I dont know. I think I'd rather have the police come after me than the ATO!


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## Bribie G (8/3/09)

I plan my upcoming brews constantly for maximum throughput balanced against reasonable time in cold conditioning and maturation in bottles. My financial plan consists of:


If it looks like I'm going to run out of ingredients within the next two weeks I put in an order from Ross. If I plan to do a series of ales such as UK bitters I save on freight by ordering six shrinks X 5kg at a time and pick up to save on freight.
If I worry about what all this is costing me I go to the drive through and get a tallie of Melbourne Bitter for $4.80. Then I go home and do a taste test against my equivalent Bribie Bitter product for 67 cents. At that point I realise how much money I am actually saving.
goto 1.


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## white.grant (8/3/09)

JamesCraig said:


> I sort of do something like this.
> 
> I have a MS money file that I record all my brewing-related purchases in - yeast, malts, sanitisers, fermenters, etc.
> 
> ...



Yes, JamesCraig has a really good point, any discussion about home brewing expenses needs to include the savings made from not purchasing commerical beer. As a rough guide I anticipate a saving of $45-$55 on my typical batch over the purchase of an equivalent, say two cases of Coopers Sparkling.

I also make use of both hobby and alcohol cost centres in the family budget to help amortise the brewing expenses. Hobby is 100% expenditure, but I pay the "saving" from alcohol into it. 

Using this form of accounting, I have successfully convinced SWMBO that I can't afford not to brew. It pays for itself.

cheers

grant


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## clean brewer (8/3/09)

> Melbourne Bitter for $4.80.



Is that what it costs for a tallie these days? 

6 Tallies = $30(4.5ltrs)  1 AG Brew = $30(19ltrs) :beerbang: 

No comparison hey, 4 times more beer for the same price...


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## bradsbrew (8/3/09)

I dont have to keep track on how much I spend on brew related stuff :chug: ...........................My wife does that for me <_<


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## Bribie G (8/3/09)

clean brewer said:


> Is that what it costs for a tallie these days?
> 
> 6 Tallies = $30(4.5ltrs)  1 AG Brew = $30(19ltrs) :beerbang:
> 
> No comparison hey, 4 times more beer for the same price...



Probably more up your way. When tallies were about $3.40 down thisaway in 2003 we went on a drive to Cape York and as soon as we got out of SEQ tallies were cracking the $4 barrier even then


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## Pumpy (8/3/09)

Pollux said:


> Same, everyone needs a hobby, ours just happens to have a by product which we can then enjoy.....Better than golf, cheaper too..
> 
> 
> As for power used by a fermentation fridge, jaycar sells a meter into which you can program your cost per kW and it will tell you how much an item would cost to run per year...




Pollux thats a handy bit of kit , In addition to checing my brewery related electriacl items ,

I could check all the bits of Electrical kit in the house and put a small sign saying how muchh it costs to run per hour .

I suppose all Greenies have one of these .

Pumpy


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## Pollux (8/3/09)

They are currently on special, 3 for $75..........

Almost tempted to grab some.


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## warra48 (8/3/09)

I set all my prices in BeerSmith to $0. 

That way, I don't worry about it.

It's a hobby, and I'm danged sure it's cheaper than my golf club membership and twice weekly comp fees. 

I'm not about to give up either of them.


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## mwd (8/3/09)

Pollux said:


> They are currently on special, 3 for $75..........
> 
> Almost tempted to grab some.




Thirsty Boy was running a mini bulk buy on them 
who needs 3 of em ?

The Linkyyy


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## Batz (8/3/09)

> Do You Keep Track Of Your Brewing Costs ?,




Defiantly not! Somethings are best not advertised around here  

Batz


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## PostModern (8/3/09)

I enjoy brewing. Cost is not an issue. I know it's cheaper than buying good beer, so I have no case to answer to the Minister of Domestic Affairs.


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## KHB (8/3/09)

I cant believe how many people keep record off costs.

KHB


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## Muggus (8/3/09)

I've started keeping closer records of my brewery related purchases over the last year.

Basically I have the prices of the ingredients for each brew in the recipe, then work out the total for that brew. Of course it's not a very good estimate of how much the brew really cost because alot of the ingredients I'll use for other batches. So one batch might cost $200, but that might only be because I bought a whole sack of grain, and some hops, and a liquid yeast to make starters out of. And it'll end up with a few batches cost like $5, or nothing.

If I got my ass in gear, I could simply just average out all of the costs and get a price per brew. It's simple enough...


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## technocat (8/3/09)

Costs of brew materials are definitely on the up and up. Bought a 25Kg bag of Weyerman Munich last week which set me back $95.00. I note Ross's Wyeast has taken a big jump and hops have moved up. Our dollar is hitting the low end of the scale for reasons that have got me wacked so all in all I guess imported materials move up accordingly. IMHO HB is a lot better product than the what the big breweries are turning out and even with escalating material costs still a hell of a lot cheaper and making beer is a fun pastime as you get to drink on the job no worries,


Cheers..................does anyone who has drank Ironhouse Pils know what hop they are using. Just cant put my finger on it.


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## Gavo (8/3/09)

I don't get too worried about the cost of this hobby. It' definatley cheaper than my waterskiing hobby. Had a look at the price of fuel. Boats?

I do update the prices in beersmith just to give me an idea of the cost of each brew. I allow myself to expand on my kit every now and then at a guestimate level where I can see that I am still in front of buying my beer.

Gavo.


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## Pumpy (8/3/09)

Pumpy said:


> With the impending recession ( three consecutive periods of negative growth)
> 
> My brewing costs have been coming under scrutiny frm SWMBO when checking her budget.
> 
> ...



just a refresher of the original post, as reading the answers from some poor souls . 

there must be a few who were too pissed to read the question  

Pumpy


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## Pollux (8/3/09)

Glassware???

Although you'd have that any way if you were drinking commercial.


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## chappo1970 (8/3/09)

warra48 said:


> I set all my prices in BeerSmith to $0.



Bwahahahaha! 

:super: 

I'm going to do that warra! Classic!

I'm not in this to save money. Quality and taste rule my decisions.


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## matti (8/3/09)

Well
I wish my well was deeper.
My time available left for brewing keeps the costs down ATM.
I planned to brew once a month but that has occured for 18 months I reckon.

So brewing AGs maybe 6 times a year and brewing whatever there is time for in between, it costs me around $30/month.

That is not calculating electricity and gas and sporadic purchases online. Another ~$25/month
In comparison of going to play golf (I wish) or going to the club that is peanuts.

matti


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## mika (8/3/09)

Water chemistry, ie 5.2 stabiliser, calcium sulphate, etc.
Fermenters don't last forever either and I seem to chuck away a plastic tap every 2nd brew.
And you seem to have neglected capital equipment costs would should be depreciated over time with an average cost allocated per brew within that time frame.
All depends on how far you want to take it.
I take it your ingredient costs include the cost of yeast, and DME in creating starters and the such ?
Water cost includes replacement carbon filters and the such ?


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## boingk (8/3/09)

I could work out my price per brew, averaged over the last 43, down to the cent mark. But that'd be boring. Instead, I write up possible recipes for upcoming brews based on what ingredients I've got in stock and/or would like to drink.

Seriously though, I think when I was K&King that my average brew was around the $25 mark, with el-cheapos being $18 and high-end stuff $30+. Now I'm BIABing, I think its around the $25 to $35 mark based on a 5kg base malt brew with a half to full kilo of additional grain to bring up to style and then hopping from 50 to 80g for the brew. Also added in is gas costs of a few bucks. I figure that my kettle and burner will see hell freeze over and perhaps the sun explode, whichever happens first, so the cost doesn't matter. 

After all that, its a hobby I enjoy. And you can't put a price on that.

Cheers - boingk


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## bindi (8/3/09)

Batz said:


> Defiantly not! Somethings are best not advertised around here
> 
> Batz




:lol: :lol: Classic + whatever. :super:


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## Pumpy (11/3/09)

Pumpy said:


> With the impending recession ( three consecutive periods of negative growth)
> 
> My brewing costs have been coming under scrutiny frm SWMBO when checking her budget.
> 
> ...



Just thought of another cost I did not include 


220gms of LDME for two litre yeast starter cost $2.65 per 20 litre batch 



Pumpy


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## alowen474 (11/3/09)

JamesCraig said:


> I dont know. I think I'd rather have the police come after me than the ATO!


At least youve got rights with the police


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## reviled (11/3/09)

I like to know how much a brew costs me, yes cost is an issue, but not to the point where I wouldnt brew something big and expensive cos it cost too much, only to the point where I cant afford to brew twice a week :lol: 

Plus I think its cool to be able to say "Yeah I can brew 20 litres of beer for about $15"


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## petesbrew (11/3/09)

Jazzafish said:


> Had a mate ask me to make a Hoegaarden type of beer. The cost of a yeast vial, fermentables, spices and hops was up around the $50-$60 for 25 Litres. Better that the $150 per case he was quoted...



Hear Hear, Jazza.

I love big belgians, and as much as I'd love to buy a case, It's hell cheaper to brew it.
And the savings when you're brewing an exotic beer really stand out, when you're looking at $20-ish a tallie at the shops.


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## Bribie G (11/3/09)

Son in law was ecstatic that he had managed to get a strudget-whirdel centric-splined crankhouse release recirculator or something along those lines for his latest racing motor bike for a _mere_ $400. Now all he need is some frogget swivel stabilizers (left hand) - I think that's what he said - and he's off and racing again  Puts my brewing costs into perspective.


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## reviled (11/3/09)

BribieG said:


> Son in law was ecstatic that he had managed to get a strudget-whirdel centric-splined crankhouse release recirculator or something along those lines for his latest racing motor bike for a _mere_ $400. Now all he need is some frogget swivel stabilizers (left hand) - I think that's what he said - and he's off and racing again  Puts my brewing costs into perspective.



Mate, you have no idea (well you probably do) but I had a car hobby before brewing (as per my avatar) and they are just an endless pit of money with little gain for soooooo long.. The patience of brewing is nothing in comparison, plus it saves money instead of sucking it out of you  

Ahh, I love brewing beer :wub:


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## cdbrown (11/3/09)

I have a spreadsheet which I used to track what ingredients I have in stock so when I plan for the next brew I know what I have on hand. I also use it to track how much I've spent on ingredients, how much each brew costs in terms of ingredients. I also put a nominal value against the brew on how much I think it would be worth to buy a carton which varies of course based on the style. This offsets the cost and have a running tally of it all. So after 10 brews of around 21L batches I'm now saving money not buying the stuff from the bottle shop. I must admit I probably wouldn't actually go and pay the prices I have set for certain brews because of the high cost, but then I wouldn't be able to enjoy 19L or a weissbier either.

Tracking the cost of all the equipment, power, gas, water and misc usage is another matter which I need to go through.


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## chappo1970 (11/3/09)

reviled said:


> Mate, you have no idea (well you probably do) but I had a car hobby before brewing (as per my avatar) and they are just an endless pit of money with little gain for soooooo long.. The patience of brewing is nothing in comparison, plus it saves money instead of sucking it out of you
> 
> Ahh, I love brewing beer :wub:



I hear ya revknut. I have just parked the HSV in the garage and that's where it can stay for a little longer. Home brewing is 10 x cheaper than building cars (especially fast ones) and the fruits of the labour can be enjoyed by all! Lets put it this way all my AG gear plus all the kits, bits, hops and grains etc I have bought to date wouldn't even replace the mags on the damn thing. Plus if you add up the money saved from not buying decent beer I am wayyyy in front.

Gotta love brewing! :icon_cheers:

EDIT: I have know what BribieG said but I will take his word for it!


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## Cortez The Killer (11/3/09)

I once had a spreadsheet detailing what I'd spent to date

I don't worry about it any more (not to say I don't chase a bargain when is presents itself)

Sure I've lashed out on gizmos and gadgets and not to mention beer glasses

But I'm in a position to do so at the moment - am I've always got in the back of my mind that the stuff I've bought has a resale value - hopefully this day won't come

I doubt I'm ahead in savings in commercial beer vs equipment cost - and am not really concerned about it

I enjoy the actual process / building stuff / drinking the fruits of my labour

At a rough guess I'd say I've spent about 5K+ on ingredients and gear (brewing, kegging, beery parenphenalia) to date

It's a hobby

Cheers


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## TidalPete (11/3/09)

petesbrew said:


> Hear Hear, Jazza.
> 
> I love big belgians, and as much as I'd love to buy a case, It's hell cheaper to brew it.
> And the savings when you're brewing an exotic beer really stand out, when you're looking at $20-ish a tallie at the shops.



+1

It hurts my head to even consider tallying up my brewing costs so I just close my eyes & think nice beer thoughts. :lol: 

TP


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## warrenlw63 (11/3/09)

TidalPete said:


> +1
> 
> It hurts my head to even consider tallying up my brewing costs so I just close my eyes & think nice beer thoughts. :lol:
> 
> TP



Yes! A paper trail can be used as incriminating evidence. Pays to stay one step ahead of the SWMBO posse in this regard. It only serves to remind. h34r: 

Warren -


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## Gulpa (11/3/09)

Pumpy said:


> Just thought of another cost I did not include
> 
> 
> 220gms of LDME for two litre yeast starter cost $2.65 per 20 litre batch
> ...



How about research costs for a new style? 

Ive just started brewing belgian beers this year. Ingredient costs are one thing. Adding my research costs would be too scary. 

cheers
Andrew.


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## Batz (11/3/09)

TidalPete said:


> +1
> 
> It hurts my head to even consider tallying up my brewing costs so I just close my eyes & think nice beer thoughts. :lol:
> 
> TP


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## thunderchild (11/3/09)

I've become a student of saving my yeast for next time and am currently researching (Dirty Job  ) single hop beers. 

The grain is the cheap part, I'm making an IPA this weekend and I have four varieties of hops in it...THAT gets exy!

I have a coule of single hop APA's conditioning which if I reuse my yeast cost around $25 for 25L


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## porky (11/3/09)

We use Attache' to keep an inventory of all things brewing.
We don't care about capital costs. It is a hobby after all.
Don't count utilities either.
We farm the yeast, have 16 different types in slants, so cost is almost nothing except extra wort to grow starters.
We bought a whole pallet of grain so cost is as low as we can get it. 
We also buy hops by the kilo to save as much as possible.

I just got back from a trip to Darwin.....Drank Coopers pale ale while up there...cost $45.95 a slab of stubbies. Went through four slabs, plus two cartons of xxxx gold for the wife at $35 each....
Less than two weeks and I spent as much as I can make great beer for and would have had 32 cases worth.
So cost is nothing really. Most single batches cost us $16 or less.
Cheers,
Bud


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## haysie (11/3/09)

Budwiser, thats a good story  , I dont keep track becos some I tip out some i drink, some yeasts I use 10x some i use once, to me its a hobby and the variables are just that......... variable. Neither here nor there the cost`s of ingredients, on the other hand i would never get carried away with the setup, dont forget too include your outlay in your cost`s,, if. looking at it that closely.


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## Pumpy (11/3/09)

Here is a simple English Mild Material costs, with the 'On costs' I stated in the post ,virtually doubles the cost of a 40 litre batch .theses oncosts would increase for 23 litre batches 

5kg Ale malt $12.75
0.37 TF Pale Crystal $2.22
0.27 Dark Crystal $1.35
.08 Carafa III $0.48
59gms EKG $5.38
irish moss /Nutrient $ 1.00

Total cost of 40 litres $24.23

Grain Freight $7.50
LPG GAS $5.00
Cleaners $1.50
Equipment wear & tear $3.00
Spoilt stock $1.00
Co2 Gas /bottle rental $6.31

Total On costs $23.81

Grand Total $44.04


Pumpy the Scrooge


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## haysie (11/3/09)

Pumpy said:


> Pumpy the Scrooge



But, can you get it under a dollar a litre? Its not petrol.

And, it adds up too $48 bucks, you gotta try harder tightazz


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## Pumpy (11/3/09)

haysie said:


> But, can you get it under a dollar a litre? Its not petrol.




Only on Tuesdays haysie 

Pumpy


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## mika (11/3/09)

Sounds realistic to me. I estimate my costs at around $35 a (25L) batch and that's without looking too closely at the on going costs. I include gas and water filtration, but not things like equipment wear and tear and sanitisers.
But even given $44 for 23L, that's ~$22 a carton and well in front of what you'd pay for well crafted beer.


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## Pollux (11/3/09)

LOL, I include the ingredients and thats it....

Sanitiser and other costs don't count, in the same way I don't include washing up liquid and the gas bill in the fortnightly food budget....


And remember, when all else fails, send the missus to buy you a decent 6pk at the local bottle shop..........


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## Pumpy (11/3/09)

I think we are all kidding ourselves as to the true cost of our beer .

Fair enough , but be honest about the true cost .

Double it !!!!



Pumpy (the realist )


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## fraser_john (11/3/09)

Consider that you get paid, what $20/hr? It takes 5-6 hours for a full all grain brew, start to finish? So add an extra $120 to the cost of a 40 litre brew.

Add that to Pumpys cost of about $44 and you are looking at $160 for a double batch.....ouch.

Course, our time is worth nothing as we enjoy it right?

I know Pumpy excluded it originally, but as he said, we are kidding ourselves about the real cost of our efforts.


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## JonnyAnchovy (11/3/09)

Reading this really makes me realize I need to start bulk buying my base malt. I've been buying it in per batch- just not worth it! Guess I need a mill next....$$$$


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## Pumpy (11/3/09)

fraser_john said:


> Consider that you get paid, what $20/hr? It takes 5-6 hours for a full all grain brew, start to finish? So add an extra $120 to the cost of a 40 litre brew.
> 
> Add that to Pumpys cost of about $44 and you are looking at $160 for a double batch.....ouch.
> 
> ...




Yay ! Thanks Fraser John for the support 

Pumpy


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## chappo1970 (11/3/09)

Pumpy said:


> I think we are all kidding ourselves as to the true cost of our beer .
> 
> Fair enough , but be honest about the true cost .
> 
> ...





Ingorance is bliss pumpy! :icon_cheers: 


psst I won't tell if you don't.


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## porky (11/3/09)

JonnyAnchovy said:


> Reading this really makes me realize I need to start bulk buying my base malt. I've been buying it in per batch- just not worth it! Guess I need a mill next....$$



Yup, ya need a mill, and buy in bulk.
Just be prepared to spend a couple of thousand in one go and you are sweet.
Still, pay back if you drink like I do (with a little help from my friends) is not that long. A few months really. 

Cheers,
Bud


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## Smashin (11/3/09)

Brilliant Pumpy I'm with you, I have tracked near every cost of my brews. and found one small political loop hole of which I call apon when Global Financial Cyclones strike (at home), and its all to do with CO2 (and no I don't include carbon credit in my calculations).

"
CO2 RENTAL /PLUS GAS  (Edited thanks to Pollux suggestion) $ 120 per year divided by 19 X40 lite batches $6.31 per batch 
"

Now you simply need to double your beer intake and the $6.31 per batch is reduced by 50% to $3.15, now that's in around about figures a 10% SAVING over the total prduction cost (quite significant). I under stand that your QA assessment resource commitment to your product needs to increases by 100% but in times of financial crisis the GM needs to step up to the plate and take one for the brewery.

And man I'm I taking it for the team and loving it!!!


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## schooey (11/3/09)

fraser_john said:


> Consider that you get paid, what $20/hr? It takes 5-6 hours for a full all grain brew, start to finish? So add an extra $120 to the cost of a 40 litre brew.



That logic is flawed, dude. While ever you aren't at work, it's costing you something to unwind from being at work. Even if you only sit on the lounge and watch telly you have to factor in your electricity, depreciation of your telly and still factor in the $120 it apparently cost you to not go to work....

So I suggest if you're that worried about it, get another job, and spend every waking minute working, should make you a fun guy...


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## Pumpy (12/3/09)

Smashin said:


> Brilliant Pumpy I'm with you, I have tracked near every cost of my brews. and found one small political loop hole of which I call apon when Global Financial Cyclones strike (at home), and its all to do with CO2 (and no I don't include carbon credit in my calculations).
> 
> "
> CO2 RENTAL /PLUS GAS  (Edited thanks to Pollux suggestion) $ 120 per year divided by 19 X40 lite batches $6.31 per batch
> "



Nice one Smashin but now 'Carbon credits' is taking it a bit too far.

There may be a whole new topic on that  

Pumpy


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## reviled (12/3/09)

JonnyAnchovy said:


> Reading this really makes me realize I need to start bulk buying my base malt. I've been buying it in per batch- just not worth it! Guess I need a mill next....$$$$



haha, I recently started buying my grain in 25kg sacks, thought I was saving money etc, but worked out that because I dont have a mill, not only do I drive for 40mins to pick up my sack of malt, I then have to drive for another 50mins in the opposite direction to get my grain milled, so im sure whatever I save im spending on petrol, reason I dont mind is cos it gives me a chance to catch up for a beer regularly and I get a nice fresh crush every time...

Its not about the money really, its about the quality!


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## Fermented (12/3/09)

Before I had BeerSmith I used to keep a spreadsheet of all the materials, amount per brew, etc. 

BeerSmith makes it rather easy. It's nice to be able to point out how much is being saved on beer for the sake of a little bookwork. It's nice to know that a half decent ale can be made for about $25, something nicer for about $40 and something downright extravagant (IIPA) for about $65 or so. 

It's nice to know that the savings can exceed $2K in a year if you brew weekly compared to buying equivalent commercially available product. 

Cheers - Fermented.


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## boingk (12/3/09)

schooey said:


> That logic is flawed, dude. While ever you aren't at work, it's costing you something to unwind from being at work. Even if you only sit on the lounge and watch telly you have to factor in your electricity, depreciation of your telly and still factor in the $120 it apparently cost you to not go to work....
> 
> So I suggest if you're that worried about it, get another job, and spend every waking minute working, should make you a fun guy...


F-ing SNAP! My logic to a tee. My Dad always likes to factor in time and I've always thought it was a crock. Mind you he does almost work 24/7, and somehow finds time for fun stuff like motorbikes and brewing...so maybe he should factor it in...

Anyway, I reckon the time arguement is BS. Plus, I'm gonna quote myself from my first post in this thread, seeing everyone seems to have missed it and we are just now getting back around to the point:



boingk said:


> After all that, its a hobby I enjoy. And you can't put a price on that.



Cheers - boingk


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## Pumpy (12/3/09)

Pumpy said:


> Here is a simple English Mild Material costs, with the 'On costs' I stated in the post ,virtually doubles the cost of a 40 litre batch .theses oncosts would increase for 23 litre batches
> 
> 5kg Ale malt $12.75
> 0.37 TF Pale Crystal $2.22
> ...




I mash two X 40 litre batches a month and I was questioning what those grey area costs were to the brew 

I have justified every cost on my earlier posts and Ok , I hear people say home brewing is cheap , but perhaps those people are looking at life through rose coloured glasses ,

I am just trying to highlight the real costs so i am not under any misconception what the real costs are .

Fine I can then decide what i can control and whether to proceed .

People who dont want to know those costs are probably so affluent, they can afford a fancy mobile phone plan, which when the $500 monthy bill comes says oh well I am happy to pay for Soul Trahea's $20 million pay out ( Pumpy Rant) 

Pumpy


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## schooey (12/3/09)

Pfffft... Solomon Trujillo is only a victim too...  

If he wasn't getting paid all that money, someone else would be, poor bastard. If you really want to get the shits, Pumpy, google up Lee Raymond's payout figure


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## Pollux (12/3/09)

You want to talk stupid amounts of money, ask me about the high rollers at work...

One guy, yes one guy has lost over $40m since late Jan..........


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## Fermented (12/3/09)

Pollux said:


> You want to talk stupid amounts of money, ask me about the high rollers at work...
> 
> One guy, yes one guy has lost over $40m since late Jan..........


Hope they comp him a martini at least.  Not the 'orrid Kir Royale they make in the Endeavour Room. 

Cheers - Fermented.


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## Pollux (12/3/09)

Fermented, do we know each other??

I only deal in the now known as Sovereign Room or the Inner Sanctums.....


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## Fermented (12/3/09)

No, probably not Pollux. Not a client at your place. 

Cheers - Fermented.


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## Bribie G (12/3/09)

My cleaners are about 30 cents per brew because I use Tandil dishwash from ALDI and plain bleach. Haven't lost a brew or a bottle to infection yet except for a dirty urn tap that was my lazy fault. If I'm doing a run of ales, fortunately in my case I work in the CBD and can swing round to Ross to get two months worth of 5kg grain shrinks (milled) and get the discount so it drops, say Barret Burston from $4 to $3.60 a kilo - though I'll be picking up Maris Otter next week. 

Without amortizing the cost of my equipment my on costs are minimal although I would certainly allow an extra dollar a brew because I am weeding out my 2L bottles and currently getting rid of one per brew. NO MERCY they get the x of death marked on the lid and that's the end of them.

Maybe another dollar for polyclar, whirlfloc, salts, gelatine and of course a couple of dollars for the boil in the urn (get my strike water free from Solahart and the Sun) but that would be about it.

For my partial Bribie Bitter brew total cost is around $21 but this includes lower on costs because it's only one boil split between four mini cubes and I cycle up the street for the can and the dex.


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## jonocarroll (12/3/09)

I reckon this has come up before ... possibly in a 'how much does AG cost?' or 'is AG cost effective' thread. "Bah" I say to the lot of it. I do what I can to keep brew costs down - wash yeast, try to use up leftover hops, etc... but it's a hobby, so I'm not really in need of cost-tracking unless it becomes a problem and I can't afford it so well. My brews are certainly cheaper than buying commercial beer (especially _nice_ commercial beer) but I do give a lot of it away to mates.

If you're really gonna keep track of costs, what about the medical insurance you need to stay well? Education so you can read the recipe? NB: All well and good if people want to keep track. I just think there's a line, especially when adding in all the little items. It's better put in this comic (edited for politeness)...


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## Pumpy (26/4/09)

Pumpy said:


> Here is a simple English Mild Material costs, with the 'On costs' I stated in the post ,virtually doubles the cost of a 40 litre batch .theses oncosts would increase for 23 litre batches
> 
> 5kg Ale malt $12.75
> 0.37 TF Pale Crystal $2.22
> ...



Just to add to the oncost the 220 gms of light dried malt to make a 2 litre 1.040 SG yeast starter 

(as the liquid is tipped away and only the yeast used I regard it as an oncost )

so that adds another $3.00 to the batch

this has put the final cost up too $47.04 for my 40 litres of English mild 

Pumpy


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## mash head (26/4/09)

Beer for close to $1 a litre cant be too bad. And the hobby keeps you off the streets.
Greg :lol:


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## Pumpy (26/4/09)

greg simons said:


> Beer for close to $1 a litre cant be too bad. And the hobby keeps you off the streets.
> Greg :lol:



Your right Greg 

I love it too 

Pumpy


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## enoch (26/4/09)

I have spent way too much on gear, gas, electricity over the years but still find it a cheap and enjoyable hobby.
If anyone gives you grief then start talking about taking up fishing to save money on fish or motorbikes to save money on aged care. It works here. h34r:


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## eamonnfoley (26/4/09)

life's too short to keep track - and its a cheap hobby when you think about it!!!!


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## manticle (26/4/09)

My biggest expense is probably buying Chimay Blues to judge my benchmark for future brewing efforts.

I have quite a few more purchases to make.


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## hoohaaman (27/4/09)

manticle said:


> My biggest expense is probably buying Chimay Blues to judge my benchmark for future brewing efforts.
> 
> I have quite a few more purchases to make.


Dude me too,but aint it fun and constructive at the same time


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## manticle (27/4/09)

It's not fun, it's serious research.

I am a scholar.


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## hoohaaman (27/4/09)

I use to keep books on everything,decided after maths it was cheAPER.stopped keeping books.

And it was

OH but Chimay is always FUN


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## manticle (27/4/09)

And how much money have you saved now you've stopped buying books?









Money you can spend on malt.


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## hoohaaman (27/4/09)

I buy the occassional book by Palmer or Stan H.

But mostly malt 

I don't keep tabs know


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## mash head (27/4/09)

I think the biggest cost may be a reconditioned liver. :lol: 
Greg


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## technocat (27/4/09)

I used to keep tabs on it but don't anymore. If you like brewing as a hobby and drinking the results for sheer pleasure I can't see the point.


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## Mantis (27/4/09)

Beernut said:


> I used to keep tabs on it but don't anymore. If you like brewing as a hobby and drinking the results for sheer pleasure I can't see the point.



+1


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