# Belle Saison (Danstar)



## bradmccoy (18/9/13)

Anyone have any experience with Danstar Belle Saison yeast? Thinking of giving it a whirl. Comes dried in a packet, which gets extra points for convenience.


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## bradmccoy (18/9/13)

Here are the specs: http://www.danstaryeast.com/products/belle-saison-yeast


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## manticle (18/9/13)

There's a thread somewhere - a few have used it. Generally positive from memory.
Will link if I can find it.


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## doon (18/9/13)

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/68478-belle-saison-dry-yeast/


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## HBHB (18/9/13)

The Belle Saison is a solid performer. Nice spiced fruit esters with peppery notes up in the 20 degrees + but IMHO a bit subdued at lower temps.

Vigorous fermenter and chews through those high gravity brews pretty quickly.

Martin


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## mabrungard (19/9/13)

Just finished a brew with Belle Saison yeast. Good performer. Started at 72F and let it go until the air-lock activity waned, then boosted the temperature to 78F and got a bit more activity. After another week, that activity waned but there was still a very low gas production. I finally decided to boost the temp to 85F and got another burst of activity. The final gravity was 0.998 due to 10% cane sugar in the recipe. 

Overall, the aroma was very nice during the ferment. I'm pretty sure I significantly underpitched this 20L batch with only 1 sachet of yeast. This was a 1.069 OG. I should have pitched 2 packets. I probably overstressed the yeast. I do get an alcohol note from the young beer. It is still not fully carbonated since its in the keg a week now. There were some solvent notes earlier, but I just tasted a sample and they are dissipating nicely. Maybe I didn't overstress the yeast too much. Modest fruity esters noted with a low belgian yeast character, earthy and not very phenolic. 

Do conduct most of the ferment at a modest temperature in the low 70F range. It does appear that allowing the temp to rise significantly at the end of the fermentation cycle may be needed to help the beer finish dryly. 

Its a winner.


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## mje1980 (19/9/13)

Bit odd but i brewed a dry stout with it. Best stout ive ever made. Smooth, roasty, with a slightly tart finish. Ill absolutely use it again


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## bradmccoy (19/9/13)

Thanks guys. Did try to find an old thread but couldn't find anything. The two old threads are helpful but one thing I was wondering -

The Danstar info says not to hydrate the yeast or mix with malt before pitching. But I don't want to have to pitch two packs. Surely there is no harm in making a starter to increase the yeast, right? From the other threads it seems some guys have done this.


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## Ross (19/9/13)

bradmccoy said:


> Thanks guys. Did try to find an old thread but couldn't find anything. The two old threads are helpful but one thing I was wondering -
> 
> The Danstar info says not to hydrate the yeast or mix with malt before pitching. But I don't want to have to pitch two packs. Surely there is no harm in making a starter to increase the yeast, right? From the other threads it seems some guys have done this.


Correct - None whatsoever....


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## RelaxedBrewer (19/9/13)

Ross said:


> Correct - None whatsoever....


Really? I would have thought you are not going to get any cell reproduction by making any normal sized started with dry yeast. 

The Belle Saison data sheet says to hydrate in 30-35C water.


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## bradmccoy (19/9/13)

Hey Ross do you use this in any of your Bacchus brews?


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## slcmorro (19/9/13)

Americans, and their stubborn-ness to use sensible measurement scales...


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## DUANNE (19/9/13)

What would you be saving by doing a starter?at 4.50 a pack its probably going to cost more in malt to get any meaningful growth than buying another pack anyway. Just rehydrate and youre good to go.


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## MartinOC (19/9/13)

slcmorro said:


> Americans, and their stubborn-ness to use sensible measurement scales...


Easy, Tiger - they have guns!


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## jeremy (19/9/13)

I have never used a liquid Saison yeast so cant make a comparison, but the Danstar is a cracker. I have a Saison on tap now brewed with this one. Started 1.058 and finished in 2 weeks right down to 1.004 without simple sugars.

My batch was around 23 litres and I pitched the single packet direct into the wort without rehydrating at around 21 degrees, krausen arrived around 12 hours later.

Over the 2 weeks I raised the temp gradually using a heat pad and finished it up at 29 degrees at the end of 2 weeks.

The yeast definitely carries through the Belgian character, and I chucked in a bit of lemon peel and citric acid to sharpen it up a bit which I think worked well.

Here it is in all its glory....


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## bradmccoy (19/9/13)

BEERHOG said:


> What would you be saving by doing a starter?at 4.50 a pack its probably going to cost more in malt to get any meaningful growth than buying another pack anyway. Just rehydrate and youre good to go.


Yeah true. Hadn't thought about that.


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## kevo (19/9/13)

I've used this yeast a couple of times and had enjoyable results.

I know saison should be quite light and thin, but mine are thinner than I'd like.

How many people are using simple sugars in their saisons? in what percentage?

I have seen some 'commercial' recipes recently and few are using sugar -maybe it's just us homebrewers...


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## mje1980 (19/9/13)

jeremy said:


> I have never used a liquid Saison yeast so cant make a comparison, but the Danstar is a cracker. I have a Saison on tap now brewed with this one. Started 1.058 and finished in 2 weeks right down to 1.004 without simple sugars.
> 
> My batch was around 23 litres and I pitched the single packet direct into the wort without rehydrating at around 21 degrees, krausen arrived around 12 hours later.
> 
> ...





Nice mate.


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## tazman1967 (19/9/13)

I brew a lot of Saison's and IMHO there are two ways to do it..
First is I'll just do a single infusion at 63d and add 100g of sugar or Dex to dry it out...
Second ( the best way ) is to use a step mash with some Acid Malt..
Manticle's Saison step mash makes a awesome Saison's... Kudo's mate.
The other step mash is De Clerk's Belgian step mash regime.. also a awesome result. Im still playing around with both..
I use about 5 different Saisons strains, but the Belle Saison works well for me.
Cheers


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## bconnery (20/9/13)

mje1980 said:


> Bit odd but i brewed a dry stout with it. Best stout ive ever made. Smooth, roasty, with a slightly tart finish. Ill absolutely use it again


Not that odd. There's a few on here who've made stouts with saison yeasts, most particularly with WY3711, works very nicely in my book. 
I got a fantastic silky mouthfeel to the beer that went really nicely with the roastiness. I used it in a foreign extra stout. 

I'm looking forward to trying this yeast, I'll definitely give it a run at a stout in the future...


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## mje1980 (20/9/13)

I have found a few old threads on stout with saison yeast. I think it works very well. Drinking one right now!


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## manticle (20/9/13)

kevo said:


> I've used this yeast a couple of times and had enjoyable results.
> 
> I know saison should be quite light and thin, but mine are thinner than I'd like.
> 
> ...



I never use sugar in my saisons.
Never used dry but 3711 eats everything and I just make sure one of my sacch rests is low 60s. if you do a double sacch (low 60s for 15, raise to 68 for 40-50) you'll get some body to offset the dryness (but still attenuate well and get that characteristic dry finish.)

no need for sugar with the right yeast unless you really want to boost the abv.


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## kevo (20/9/13)

manticle said:


> no need for sugar with the right yeast unless you really want to boost the abv.


That seems to be whats happening in many HB saisons as far as I can tell.

Heard a strategy discussed recently to mash high to gain body and then use sugar in the ferment...


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## doon (20/9/13)

My best saisons have been pilsner with 100g of acid malt mashed at 64 deg


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## doon (20/9/13)

And with 3711


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## lael (2/10/13)

doon said:


> My best saisons have been pilsner with 100g of acid malt mashed at 64 deg


What FG are you usually finishing at?


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## mje1980 (11/10/13)

Pitched this today in a standard saison recipe. Pitched at 24c and I'm seeing activity within a few hours. Bloody hell!. I plan on pitching a Belgian IIPA on half of the cake, after cooling back down to 20c

The stout I brewed with it is all gone haha


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## Jace89 (11/10/13)

I love this yeast, I have only used it once though.

I picthed at 28C and 12hrs later I allowed it to climb to 32C, awesome amount of spice and fruit esters. Its now sitting on some brett awaiting the warmer months when I'll keg and bottle it.

I'll be brewing again with it soon!


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## mje1980 (11/10/13)

Ok cool, so pitching warm doesn't seem to bother it ?. That'd be awesome, as I prefer esters to phenols, so would be happy to keep it above 23 or so for the whole ferment. I plan on ramping it up to 30 after 48hours.


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## mje1980 (12/10/13)

36 hrs is close enough, it's now on its way to 30c via a heat belt. Pretty cool that a yeast can handle such high temps and not be Undrinkable haha


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## mje1980 (14/10/13)

Cranked it to 30-32 for the last few days, now looks done at 1.002. What a beast of a yeast. Despite the warm ferment, the sample is fruity but still a bit of black pepper. Not very cloudy either, seems to start dropping out pretty quick. Will keg today and try later in the week. How cool is that? Haha


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## mwd (20/10/13)

Just put together the Coopers Saison kit with belle saison yeast . I added 500g of rice syrup and 500g BE2 to up the ABV a bit.
Could not get the temperature down fast enough, used too much boiling water cleaning out the cans so ended up pitching at 24C late last night. This morning it was going quite fast and the Krausen has just reached the underside of the lid. The plan is to let it get down to 22C for a couple of days then turn off the fridge and allow it to creep up to FG.

Intend to use the yeast cake afterwards for a Stout/Dark Ale toucan.


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## mabrungard (21/10/13)

After a couple of months to mull over the taste of my Saison, I have additional comments about this yeast. 

An important factor is that this is a well attenuating yeast and it is well suited for creating a Saison in some respects. Interestingly in my saison, even with a FG of 0.998, drinkers are not finding that the beer is overly dry. There is still some sweetness and fullness to compliment the palate and perceptions. I find that it is the yeast's phenolic character that dominates, but not excessively. This is likely due to the modest initial fermentation temperature of around 21C for about a week, followed with a rise to about 26C to help the yeast finish out very well. The character that I miss in this yeast is the earthiness that you get in a bottle of Saison Dupont. This yeast does not seem to have that character. 

Overall, this is a very nice belgian yeast. But it may not be ideal as a saison yeast due to the lacking earthiness. In retrospect, this yeast is probably very well suited for a Belgian Pale Ale since the ester and phenol production is apparent, yet restrained. I expect that brewers will find this a credible yeast for many Belgian styles.


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## Dickster86 (18/8/16)

I plan on using this yeast tomorrow in a recipe i've whacked together (with some help from forums). I dont have a brew fridge or temp controller. But should be able to keep it around the 20 - 22 degrees celsius mark i am hoping (thanks to a handy under stairs storage / brew room). Just need some advice on rehydration though

1 x 1.5kg Tin Amber Malt Extract
2 1 x 1.5kg Tin Light Malt Extract
1 x 1.5kg Tin Wheat Malt Extract
500 Grams Caramunich III grains
500 Grams WY CARAAROMA MALT _(for more of a reddish hue)_
4 x 5g Cascade Hops
4 x 5g Willamette Hops
4 x 5g Mosaic Hops
3 x 10g Cascade Hops_ (for boil)_
3 x 10g Willamette Hops_ (for boil)_
3 x 10g Mosaic Hops_ (for boil)_
1 x 5g Cascade Hops_ (for finishing)_
1 x 5g Willamette Hops_ (for finishing)_
1 x 5g Mosaic Hops_ (for finishing)_
Ale Yeast (High Attenuation, High Sedimentation, High ABV Tolerance)
2 x 11g Danstar Belle Saison (rehydrated)

_1) __The night before chill 10L of water in the fridge_
2) Place grains in a ziplock bag and crush with a rolling pin.
3) Steep Grains in 2L 5L of hot not boiling water for 1 Hour 30 Minutes
4) Strain liquid into a large pot and discard the grains
5) Add an additional 3L of water to the pot as well as the Amber Malt
6) Bring Wort to the boil. Once boiling add 10g of each three hop varieties
7) After 20 minutes add another 10g of each three hop varieties
8) After 20 minutes add another 10g of each three hop varieties
9) Set the pot in a cold/ice water bath to cool then strain into a fermenting vessel (FV)
10) Add the 3kg 1.5kg of Amber Malt, 1.5kg of Light Malt and 1.5kg of Wheat Malt extract into the FV
_a. __Soak the tins in hot water prior to opening, and rinse the tins with some boiling water to get all of the extract out_
11) Top up the fermenter with cold and warm water to reach a total volume of 25L at approx. 22 degrees celcius
12) Sprinkle _Gently pour the rehydrated_ yeast onto the top of the FV then leave to ferment for at least 7 days
13) Halfway through the fermentation add a hop infuser bag to the fermenter filled with 5g of each three hop varieties
14) Once fermentation has completed and SG readings over two consecutive days stay constant bottle or keg, priming with appropriate level of dextrose or carbonation drops.


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## hirschb (18/8/16)

Dickster86 said:


> I plan on using this yeast tomorrow in a recipe i've whacked together (with some help from forums). I dont have a brew fridge or temp controller. But should be able to keep it around the 20 - 22 degrees celsius mark i am hoping (thanks to a handy under stairs storage / brew room). Just need some advice on rehydration though


I'm an all-grain brewer, so I'd do this very differently, but a few notes:
There is no need for amber malt or caraaroma. Saisons are traditionally very light, Biere de gardes are maltier. I typically use all pale malt and wheat for the base, with some other grains thrown in for texture/flavor (rolled oats, spelt, etc).
A saison typically looks like this:





Do not throw in hops at 40 and 20 minutes (you've written this as having a 40min boil, but I assume you meant 60min). Mid-boil additions are kinda useless. Throw in some hops at the beginning for bittering (use a recipe calculator to dial in the IBU's you want), and then throw in the rest of the hops at flameout or whirlpool. This will maximize the hop aromas. I'd also recommend first wort hopping for a smoother hop character.
Then, for the dry hops, do not throw them in while fermentation is still going. You want to thrown them in a few days before bottling. Wait until the beer gets to the gravity you want, throw in the dry hops for 1-3 days, and then bottle. The best way to do this is to throw the hops straight in the fermentor, then cold crash the beer in a fridge so the hops pass through the beer and settle with the trub..... but this will be hard without a beer fridge.
And two packets of Belle saison yeast thrown straight into the wort will turn out fine.


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## Dickster86 (22/8/16)

hirschb said:


> I'm an all-grain brewer, so I'd do this very differently, but a few notes:
> There is no need for amber malt or caraaroma. Saisons are traditionally very light, Biere de gardes are maltier. I typically use all pale malt and wheat for the base, with some other grains thrown in for texture/flavor (rolled oats, spelt, etc).



I totally get your point. And you are definitely correct. However i probably should have specified that i am trying to make a red farmhouse ale, not so much a traditional saison. Probably somewhat of a cross between a traditional saison like the dupont you showed a picture of, and my favourite french beer Gavroche.


That said i will be leaving out the amber malt, and instead going for some wheat and pils extracts instead (maybe even some munich extract if i can get it). The cara-aroma is there for the red colour only really.

Regarding hops, yeah i did write that in a bit of a wierd way. And i will take your advice on board. Perhaps just get rid of the 20 min addition. And just have slightly more at start of boil and at flameout, then let site for 15 - 20min before ice bathing it.


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