# Dedicated Grainfather Guide, Problems and Solutions Thread



## HBHB

With the roll out of the Grainfather Units imminent in Australia, there's bound to be some questions raised and issues encountered along the way.


As per the other similar threads: (Borrowed from Idzy and Chappo's sticky threads in this forum)


To stay on topic where reasonable (a little friendly banter is ok)
Purely on procedures, techniques, brewing techniques, equipment, technology and set ups.
Talk on recipes and results from Grainfather systems
Photo's, drawings, scribbles of gear and set up is a must.
No trolling lets keep it straight, debate well, deal with facts and remain focused. Difference of opinion is more than acceptable. Calling someone out for a shooting and pissing contest isn't.
Advanced brewing techniques using Grainfather.
Beginner advice on setting Grainfather systems up.
The thread will be actively Moderated to keep it on topic.
Now this isn't an elitist thread ok. So please don't start banging that one out guys. It is however for those in the Grainfather world of brewing. We don't bash on much about our systems etc as mentioned above. But it will be a place where those using Grainfather Units can advance and share their knowledge.


----------



## HBHB

_When assembling for the first time, please ensure all of the clamps for the wort return line are firm, but don’t excessively tighten the pipe on the silicone parts, it’s not necessary and crushing could cause problems later._
_Sit and read the instructions fully and understand the controls. There’s a couple of good videos on the grainfather Youtube channel that are worth watching as well._
_When you have mashed in and are placing the wort return arm (with black handle and silicone hose) in place, ensure the square profile seal is used and is sitting flat on the round pipe of the arm snug against the raised lip. A little lube will keep it in good condition. Once the male pipe is inserted into the threaded female section of the wort return pipe, drop the black threaded nut (has a brass insert) over the female end and run it backwards a turn before trying to secure it. If the thread grabs and gets firm in just 2-3 turns, then *stop and back it off before trying again*. Crossing the thread will likely cause damage to the brass insert and will result in a leaking joint. If the nut hasn’t threaded on correctly and you try to stop a leak by tightening too much, the brass insert can shear and the arm will need replacing. Threaded on properly with care, the stem seal will give effective sealing easily and the arm securing nut will give flawless service._
_There is a HD brass cap for the top of the wort return pipe which *should always be in place when the wort return arm is not on there*. Failure to do so will create unwanted excitement on brew day if you turn the pump on accidentally without the cap or the return arm in place. It also tends to reduce accumulated brownie points in a relationship (In English: It will piss the better half off immensely)_
_Your package contains a GEN II counter flow wort chiller. It’s very effective and will greatly improve your beers over No-Chill techniques. Water flow doesn’t need to be any higher than about 3-3.5L per minute. Making up a short (3m - 4m) prechiller to be placed inline for the water inlet side and placing it into a small esky with ice, salt and water will allow you to crank the wort temperature down to as low as 6 degrees C in summer. This is used once temperature drop stalls and you can’t get it below the ambient tap water temperature. _
_Ensure your recipe has been designed to take chilling into account._
_For early stages, until you get used to the unit, a 75% Brewhouse efficiency will get you close to the mark for consistency, however during testing we consistently achieved higher than this._
_Paying attention to correct mash pH along with adequate milling to ensure a good crush on the grain is important. The grains should be broken, but not shredded and not with too much flour. _
_For good extraction of malted Wheat and Rye, they should be milled separate to any other grains and be milled to a granular size (similar to coarse river sand)_
_When doing high wheat or rye beers as with rolled/flaked oats/barley/flaked wheat etc, while those are pre-gelatinized, it does still benefit from a β-glucanase rest of 20-30 minutes at 40 Deg C (also allows time to correct your mash pH), followed by a Protein rest (say around 53 – 55 Deg C for just 10-15 Minutes) Using these steps, we’ve done some great beers with up to 32% Rye without any problems encountered with stuck sparges._
_Using a hop sock for each of the hop additions in really hoppy styles such as American Pale Ales and IPA’s will still allow thorough wash through of wort and thus extaction of the soluble oils without loss of any hoppy goodness. It will also mean you lose a LOT less beer to the hops and will reduce the incidence of pump filter fouling. It’s a contentious issue with some, i know, but it does have many advantages and absolutely no disadvantages in practice. The oils simply wash out of the vegetal matter into the beer. They’re also reusable many times over of washed well between uses. Securing the hop sock to the side of the boiler with a stationary clamp (bulldog style) works well._


----------



## Hippy

Good work Martin.
What is the largest grain bill you have done in the grainfather so far and how do the larger grain bills affect volume calcs and efficiency?


----------



## HBHB

We managed a 9kg grain bill which was a squeeze along with quite a few up in the 7-8+ kg range mate. Most of course were in the 4.5-6kg range. Would have to pull the figures for exact efficiencies, but the 9kg was still around 72% off the top of my head. That's probably the lowest figures we've pulled. The Gympie demo last Friday was dialled in on the recipe at 75% Brewhouse efficiency and overshot pre boil estimated Gravity by 0.013 and post boil by 0.011. That was a 5.5kg pale malt, .2kg caramunich 1 and .2kg wheat malt grain bill. Working on a foggy memory here. I'm sure one of the guys could check it. 

Our test unit shall henceforth be known as the town tart, since it's been fondled by every bloke and his dog between Bundy and Brisbane.

Roger D took the unit for some trials and in a moment of weakness did a crazy big double choc cherry oatmeal stout that could be the cure for the common cold. He can add his figures, but it was a squeeze along with some familiarity issues that arose.

Highest was on a fairly large lager grain bill which was up Over 88% BHE. Again, other guys will have the figures. Not exactly typical, but certainly pretty impressive. I have a Boston lager clone on tap at the moment that is as clean as a whistle that achieved something up over the 80% BHE. It's a beer where there's nowhere to hide off flavours or astringency.

We haven't played around much with smaller grain bills and will do a few up in the coming weeks to play around with lighter session beers in the 2.6-3.5 % Abv. Something that is often missing on tap here. 

Hope this helps.


----------



## vykuza

HBHB - have you dialed in a recommended mill gap size for the units?


----------



## Autopilot80

I got mine on order so I'm pretty excited to get it and give it a go. My biggest concern is the sparging method. Once you lift the malt basket out do you let it completely drain before adding your sparge water or do you keep the grains soaked for the whole process? Have you had any tannin/astringency issues with smaller grain bills? I am a bit freaked out about over sparging as it's looks neigh on impossible to get an accurate gravity reading during the sparge.


----------



## HBHB

Nick R said:


> HBHB - have you dialed in a recommended mill gap size for the units?



Nick, it depends on the mill used. We have a custom built 8" mill with big rollers that doesn't shred the grains and gives outstanding results as narrow as 0.83mm but on the standard 3 roller mill it's usually around 0.87-0.9mm. Usual story different grains different settings. Wheat and rye we tend to mill them down like course sand granules. Not too much flour.





Autopilot80 said:


> I got mine on order so I'm pretty excited to get it and give it a go. My biggest concern is the sparging method. Once you lift the malt basket out do you let it completely drain before adding your sparge water or do you keep the grains soaked for the whole process? Have you had any tannin/astringency issues with smaller grain bills? I am a bit freaked out about over sparging as it's looks neigh on impossible to get an accurate gravity reading during the sparge.


Autopilot80, if you wait until the grain bed drains until exposed and the top perforated screen is dry, then start to build up the sparge water up until it's just below the overflow, it'll be fine. Also with regards to oversparging, don't sweat it. If you follow the instructions for calculating the strike water and then the sparge water, it'll work out OK. The only astringency I've seen was in a beer with way too much Galaxy hops....nothing to do with over sparging

If you get any weird calculations where your spare is much bigger than your mash volume, just split the volume 50:50 so half for mash, half for sparge, otherwise follow the calculations in the book.

I believe the NZ guys are working on a sliding scale for small and crazy big grain bills to avoid errors. Not sure on progress.

Edit Note: removed all of the auto spell corrections (I hate autocorrect)


----------



## Hippy

Thanks for that info Martin.
Have you had any issues with step mashing, assuming you have done step mashes? 
I'm thinking in regards to protein rests and if it has caused any build up on the element which may lead to the cut out switch kicking in.


----------



## bradsbrew

Out of the box!


----------



## wambesi

Quick, use it and let me know.

Just made some money tonight that is burning a hole in my pocket!!


----------



## bradsbrew

Out of the box!


----------



## Bomber Watson

Mmmmmm, lovely.


----------



## HBHB

Hippy said:


> Thanks for that info Martin.
> Have you had any issues with step mashing, assuming you have done step mashes?
> I'm thinking in regards to protein rests and if it has caused any build up on the element which may lead to the cut out switch kicking in.


Hippy, one of the guys who used the test unit did manage to trip the switch on a crazy big beer, but not sure of the exact circumstances. Easily resolved by running a spoon gently over the plate and pushing the reset button under the main body. I believe the rest of the brew went fairly well.

I guess it's better to have that trip early to identify there's a heap of gunk on the element hot zone, rather than ruin a batch from badly burnt trub.

It'd take a fair bit of stuff on the plate to trip the thermal cut-out I imagine. During testing we managed to do a particularly big Black Rye IPA (32% Rye) which was milled fairly fine and put through a step mash regime (40 for 30min, 53 for 10min, 66 for 60min, 72 for 15min and 75 for 10min to mash out) there was a fair bit of stuff on the element area from that one and a little area (50c piece) was pretty dark.

Should be easy enough in most cases to avoid it happening with careful milling.

It's probably worth while considering some rice hulls if doing big wheat or rye additions which should improve filtration through the grain bed overall.

These units have 2 protective mechanisms, 1st line of protection is the cut out switch which is a thermal switch and the second is a fusible link which would be easy enough to replace (add in - use a sparky etc etc).


----------



## Hippy

HBHB said:


> Hippy, one of the guys who used the test unit did manage to trip the switch on a crazy big beer, but not sure of the exact circumstances. Easily resolved by running a spoon gently over the plate and pushing the reset button under the main body. I believe the rest of the brew went fairly well.
> 
> I guess it's better to have that trip early to identify there's a heap of gunk on the element hot zone, rather than ruin a batch from badly burnt trub.
> 
> It'd take a fair bit of stuff on the plate to trip the thermal cut-out I imagine. During testing we managed to do a particularly big Black Rye IPA (32% Rye) which was milled fairly fine and put through a step mash regime (40 for 30min, 53 for 10min, 66 for 60min, 72 for 15min and 75 for 10min to mash out) there was a fair bit of stuff on the element area from that one and a little area (50c piece) was pretty dark.
> 
> Should be easy enough in most cases to avoid it happening with careful milling.
> 
> It's probably worth while considering some rice hulls if doing big wheat or rye additions which should improve filtration through the grain bed overall.
> 
> These units have 2 protective mechanisms, 1st line of protection is the cut out switch which is a thermal switch and the second is a fusible link which would be easy enough to replace (add in - use a sparky etc etc).


As usual thanks for a thorough response.
Sounds like you really have put it through it's paces.
Looking forward to getting my hands on one.


----------



## bradsbrew

Only a small thing but you will find the hose clamp and little bolt/nut in the hop screen. Took 10 minutes to find it, but I had had a few beers. Another tip it's probably not the best idea to assemble the unit after the work Christmas lunch/drinks.


----------



## meathead

Well I've got mine after about 2 years of going through the stages of this hobby, kits, biab, buying stuff that I've either chucked or resold on eBay.
Anyways this piece of shiny ss is the ducks guts. I'm currently mashing my Pot Kettle Black clone and its a joy. I feel planned, prepared and in control.
I'm no tech guy so to build my own GF would have been out of the question. For me this bit of kit is perfect.


----------



## warnerbrew

Did my first ag brew yesterday. Couple of little surprises like an almost boil over but the grainfather videos were great. 

Being my first ag - sparging seemed to take forever - following the calc's I had a 13L sparge which took around 45 minutes to an hour to drain through. Is this normal? 

Aamcle - the internal diameter of the lower pipe is 10mm. The ID of the upper pipe that slides over the lower one is 13mm.


----------



## buck_star

Hey Warnerbrew

My sparge takes about 20 minutes i have a urn set up above my gf so gravity may be helping. Are you pushing the plate down when sparging?


----------



## MCHammo

warnerbrew said:


> Did my first ag brew yesterday. Couple of little surprises like an almost boil over but the grainfather videos were great.
> 
> Being my first ag - sparging seemed to take forever - following the calc's I had a 13L sparge which took around 45 minutes to an hour to drain through. Is this normal?
> 
> Aamcle - the internal diameter of the lower pipe is 10mm. The ID of the upper pipe that slides over the lower one is 13mm.


45-60 minutes? Not normal. What were you making? I think I took about 10 - 15 mins the other day to sparge, but that was quite a small grain bill.


----------



## warnerbrew

Cheers for the replies buck_star and MCHammo,

I was brewing a Fat Yak clone - following the guidance from the grain father videos - i.e. 1L of water over the grain bed after you push the plate down, 5.6kg grain bill, 18.6L of water with 13.8L of sparge. Per the video, waited between each 1L batches of water on top of the perforated plate until the plate was clear of water and then stopped when the water was 10mm above the plate ... rinse and repeat - as I mentioned this took about 45 minutes which seemed a long time (painfully slow).

I've got an urn, so could set it up above the GF - buck_star - do you just attach a hose and crack a valve or something?

cheers.


----------



## buck_star

Yeah mate just have a hose from my ball lock valve on my urn.


----------



## bradsbrew

You can use more than a litre at a time, as long as the sparge water does not go over the return. Should just be able to raise the return up so you can fit more water in.

I tested out an 80% volume mash yesterday.
experimental mild
Filled to 26L , heated to 68 and added 3.875kg of grain(3.2kg base)
after the mash had drained I added another 6L of water.
22L into the cube + 2 L in a flask @ 1.041, have not done the calcs but efficiency was a log higher than what I had expected.


----------



## Autopilot80

I found that my hop filter is pretty ineffective. With 50 grams of hops (pellets) the filter clogged up pretty quickly and then started pulling through the debris during the cooling. I had to syphon rack the wort into another FV once the hops settled. This inevitably led to a bit of extra loss. I would definitely recommend a hop spider. Ramp speed are pretty good too, although I did use the bigger element to get up to mash out temp (I don't know if this is recommended) and I found the smaller element was struggling to maintain 75 degrees with a 5kg malt bill. Boil was vigorous and you do have to pay close attention during the transition from ramp to boil as there isn't much head space so boil overs can happen quickly. Other than that the GF performed brilliantly. Look out world these things are going to sell like hot cakes.


----------



## kaiserben

Dunno if this is a stupid question, but ...

I've had a quick look at the tap adaptors for the chiller ... or more specifically, I've looked at my kitchen tap and I'm not sure how to attach it to an adaptor. There's no visible thread on my tap to screw in an adaptor (all there is is a screen, which I assume is a water saving thing. I'm not sure if I can somehow remove that screen or not, but there's no other obvious solution). 

EDIT: Ah, it was a stupid question. The screen thing I was describing simply screwed out. Allowing me to replace it with the adaptor for the GF chiller. 



And another question re designing recipes: 

Up until now I've been BIABing and using the BIABacus spreadsheet to design all my recipes. Can/should I continue to use the BIABacus? I've also got Brewmate somewhere on my PC, so could switch to that if need be. 

Basically I just want something where I can design a grain bill using percentages and then be told how much I'll need by weight, and how much water, etc etc for my GF system.


----------



## buck_star

You should have a little ring that will in screw on your tap and then it will go on. In regards to hop filter I have had issues with it clogging up so have gone back to using a sock. I knocked the filter off with paddle on my first brew and clogged the pump up.


----------



## buck_star

Beer smith has a grain father profile.


----------



## kaiserben

EDIT: Solution put into earlier post.


----------



## Autopilot80

buck_star said:


> Beer smith has a grain father profile.


That profile isn't really accurate even per the instructions you get with the GF, the sparge volumes are way off.


----------



## slcmorro

buck_star said:


> In regards to hop filter I have had issues with it clogging up so have gone back to using a sock.


I was going to ask that. Would a hop spider be a handy piece of equipment, for super hoppy brews?


----------



## HBHB

slcmorro said:


> I was going to ask that. Would a hop spider beer a handy piece of equipment, for super hoppy brews?


Working with an off the shelf unit at the moment but it needs work. Spoke to Peter in NZ (Imake) and it's on the Wishlist.

In the meantime simply using a hop sock suspended over the side does a mighty job of reducing those losses without any loss of bitterness or flavour etc.


----------



## wambesi

Although I have yet to recieve a unit, I've been playing with the Beersmith profile to soften the wait. 

By removing the 7 litre loss and manually editing the strike water with the GF formula it brings the sparge water to 1 litre off. 

Would rather a profile that was spot on though.


----------



## buck_star

Autopilot80 said:


> That profile isn't really accurate even per the instructions you get with the GF, the sparge volumes are way off.


Yeah I have noticed that so be using the instructions


----------



## slcmorro

HBHB said:


> Working with an off the shelf unit at the moment but it needs work. Spoke to Peter in NZ (Imake) and it's on the Wishlist.
> 
> In the meantime simply using a hop sock suspended over the side does a mighty job of reducing those losses without any loss of bitterness or flavour etc.


I sometimes use a hop sock with my current setup, CUB keg with a gas burner and it really helps with those beers that you want super clear and clean (Pils) so I can't see a problem with using one with a GF. Plus, it's cheap and easy to build your own hop spider anyways


----------



## Snow

OK. Pretty excited. Just unpacked my GF Christmas present this arvo and ran it through it's initial cleaning cycle. With the chiller, I will be setting it up as a closed-loop return cycle via our rainwater tank. Found out the GF kit only includes one barbed tap adapter, leaving me with the quandry of how to hook up the hot water discharge hose to my rainwater tank return hose. Problem solved with forcibly jamming the silicon discharge hose onto a standard garden tap disconnect. Anyone trying this method should make sure their garden tap disconnect has a tapered male fitting, as it was impossible to get the discharge hose onto a straight edge disconect fitting.

Looking forward to the first brew day tomorrow!!

Cheers Snow


----------



## Trevandjo

Snow said:


> OK. Pretty excited. Just unpacked my GF Christmas present this arvo and ran it through it's initial cleaning cycle. With the chiller, I will be setting it up as a closed-loop return cycle via our rainwater tank. Found out the GF kit only includes one barbed tap adapter, leaving me with the quandry of how to hook up the hot water discharge hose to my rainwater tank return hose. Problem solved with forcibly jamming the silicon discharge hose onto a standard garden tap disconnect. Anyone trying this method should make sure their garden tap disconnect has a tapered male fitting, as it was impossible to get the discharge hose onto a straight edge disconect fitting.
> 
> Looking forward to the first brew day tomorrow!!
> 
> 
> Cheers Snow


 I'll be recycling to tank too. Unfortunately due to my set up I'll be discharging water to jerry cans then pouring them in. Not sure how much water I'll use. 

Trev


----------



## wambesi

I fixed up a quick cleaning mod by joining the hose on the recirculation arm to the wort out hose on the chiller.
By positioning the wort in hose (with screw nut) over the hole in the lid (just reaches) you can now do one cleaning cycle, instead of one with the chiller and then the recirculation arm.

Equipment needed: Bit of bottling wand.





A few minutes saved is never laughed at in my book.


----------



## Hippy

So I had my first brew day with the GF the other day. I wanted to keep it fairly simple so my first brew was a little creatures bright ale clone with a single infusion mash followed by a honey wheat beer
Main issues I had were a slow sparge and the seal on the top plate coming loose, which was a result of neglecting to double check the silicon seal before I inserted the top plate. I'm pretty sure the sparge issues were caused by the plate seal lifting which caused the plate to drop and compacted the grain bed. The gap between the plate and malt pipe let a little bit of grain into the wort but nothing major.
The volume calculations provided gave pretty awesome mash efficiency on my first brew, where I achieved 10 gravity points higher than expected, but contributed to the sparge issues. On the second brew, which was a wheat beer with about 40% wheat bill I just went with 20L mash water and 12 L sparge. When I sparged I took the top plate off, lifted the overflow pipe to max height and poured about half the sparge water in at a time and used a mash paddle to scrape the bottom plate to lift the grain bed and improve the flow. In doing this I did the sparge a lot quicker than the first time. I also added an extra 4 litres of water post mash and during the boil to increase the volume and my OG was spot on to what beersmith predicted while my preboil gravity was high, so without the additional water my OG would have ended up much higher.
Piece of piss to clean and I no chilled as I didn't have time to get any starters up.



With the no chill I found a legnth of heavy duty 1/2 " silicon hose fitted snuggly over the wort return arm when pushed up past the hose barb onto the bend as per the above photo.
In terms of brew times, I did two brews back to back and it took about 9 hours. Considering there was a couple of blunders in the first brew which slowed the process down considerably as well ,as extra time taken to check the accuracy of the temp sensor by manually taking temp readings with a probe thermometer and double checking volumes,I reckon a brew could be done in around 4 hrs if you were step mashing.
All in all I'm extremely happy with it's performance and definitely think it's worth the coin.


----------



## HBHB

Mash in at 40 and give it a 30 minute rest. Should solve those lautering issues and stuck sparges. I wouldn't expect a 100g steel mesh to compact the grain bed...glad it all worked out in the end.


----------



## Hippy

Will give it a go Martin thanks. 
It was not so much the weight of the plate but the fact the seal wasn't intact, creating resistance and holding the plate in place which caused the wort being pumped onto it to push it down.


----------



## moodgett

Autopilot80 said:


> I found that my hop filter is pretty ineffective. With 50 grams of hops (pellets) the filter clogged up pretty quickly and then started pulling through the debris during the cooling. I had to syphon rack the wort into another FV once the hops settled. This inevitably led to a bit of extra loss. I would definitely recommend a hop spider. Ramp speed are pretty good too, although I did use the bigger element to get up to mash out temp (I don't know if this is recommended) and I found the smaller element was struggling to maintain 75 degrees with a 5kg malt bill. Boil was vigorous and you do have to pay close attention during the transition from ramp to boil as there isn't much head space so boil overs can happen quickly. Other than that the GF performed brilliantly. Look out world these things are going to sell like hot cakes.



hey I was wondering about this, does the hop filter issue effect just the hop debris into fv? or will it potentially stuff the pump up? 

I've read a few comments saying a hop spider or hop sock with this system is almost a necessity, I'm a bit so-so about restricting my hops moving around in wort during the boil, and I'm super heavy handed with a lot of my beers. 
that said I don't want to stuff the pump on my GF, but couldnt give a rats about not having crystal clear, hop debris free wort into FV (come from pouring stovetop partial boils into FV)
any feedback would be much appreciated 

Cheers

moodgett

Cheers


----------



## bradsbrew

If you are worried about hop utilisation with hoppy handed beers, just use more socks.


----------



## moodgett

bradsbrew said:


> If you are worried about hop utilisation with hoppy handed beers, just use more socks.


cheers mate, or would a biab bag over the side suffice?


----------



## tugger

I came across this today. 
Not sure if you guys have heard about this. 
http://youtu.be/8KpAVDacNZQ


----------



## wambesi

Yeah that was found on the early ones but rectified for the main release. I haven't had a problem with mine.


----------



## HBHB

So far from the current crop, we haven't had any reported problems, but if any do arise, be certain to jump on the phone and it will be rectified as quickly and painlessly as possible.


----------



## HBHB

moodgett said:


> cheers mate, or would a biab bag over the side suffice?


Keep in mind that hop oils are quite quickly washed out in hot/boiling wort. You won't need anything as big as a BIAB bag, which could reduce steam off-put by totally covering the surface of the boiling wort. Just use a hops sock and if it's looking a bit over full drop the next one in a fresh one. They can be lifted over the side and locked down by the lid when you get to chilling stage and transfer, allowing the bags to drain freely, reducing wort loss. Etc.


----------



## kaiserben

Did my first batch on the GF on Monday night. Here are some of my observations: 

I love the GF. I think this will end up being the best money I've spent in a long time! 

One thing I found interesting about the chiller and transfering wort to a fermenter (keep in mind I'm used to no-chilling, so I wasn't certain about exactly when to transfer): The chiller is great and works fast. I began by recircing through the chiller and watching how fast the temp dropped. Of course, the GF unit itself retains heat (and thus keeps applying some heat to the wort, while the chiller chills the wort). I wasn't really sure when to start pumping into a FV, so decided just let it chill as far as it would while recircing. (from memory it got down to 36C before it wouldn't go down any further, and it didn't really take _that_ long to get to 36C). At that point I started pumping out into a FV (and it was most definitely coming out quite cold. The temp in the GF started climbing again quite fast, ending up at around 90C by the time barely any wort was remaining). 

I used a hop sock (2 actually, each tied to a currently superfluous lid clip), and I noticed after recirculating through to sterilise the chiller that the silicon hose had a lot of hop debris collected on it. (some of the pellets I used had crumbled into powder in its packaging before I used them, so I'm gonna put it down to that). 

I tasted my gravity sample and, even though I followed the same ESB recipe at ~40IBU as I'd made many times before (but now scaled up to 23L GF from 10L BIAB), it was the most bitter sample I'd tasted. Is there something I need to be taking into account? Additions were at 60min and at 10min both for BIAB no-chill and then also for GF w/ chill, I didn't move the timings around at all (and I would've though BIAB no-chill would have been more bitter because the wort stayed hotter longer, but that's not what seems to have happened here). 

My volume into fermenter was ~1L less than expected (already taking into account the expected 2L loss to trub). No big deal, but just unexpected. The only explanantion I could come up with (besides human error) was that I could have been more patient waiting for the last of the sparge water to drip through (but really, I guessed that would've been only 0.01L max still in the grain bed). 

My OG was spot on (something I'd always undershot during BIAB, so that was a first for me).


----------



## HBHB

kaiserben said:


> Did my first batch on the GF on Monday night. Here are some of my observations:
> 
> I love the GF. I think this will end up being the best money I've spent in a long time!
> 
> One thing I found interesting about the chiller and transfering wort to a fermenter (keep in mind I'm used to no-chilling, so I wasn't certain about exactly when to transfer): The chiller is great and works fast. I began by recircing through the chiller and watching how fast the temp dropped. Of course, the GF unit itself retains heat (and thus keeps applying some heat to the wort, while the chiller chills the wort). I wasn't really sure when to start pumping into a FV, so decided just let it chill as far as it would while recircing. (from memory it got down to 36C before it wouldn't go down any further, and it didn't really take _that_ long to get to 36C). At that point I started pumping out into a FV (and it was most definitely coming out quite cold. The temp in the GF started climbing again quite fast, ending up at around 90C by the time barely any wort was remaining).
> 
> I used a hop sock (2 actually, each tied to a currently superfluous lid clip), and I noticed after recirculating through to sterilise the chiller that the silicon hose had a lot of hop debris collected on it. (some of the pellets I used had crumbled into powder in its packaging before I used them, so I'm gonna put it down to that).
> 
> I tasted my gravity sample and, even though I followed the same ESB recipe at ~40IBU as I'd made many times before (but now scaled up to 23L GF from 10L BIAB), it was the most bitter sample I'd tasted. Is there something I need to be taking into account? Additions were at 60min and at 10min both for BIAB no-chill and then also for GF w/ chill, I didn't move the timings around at all (and I would've though BIAB no-chill would have been more bitter because the wort stayed hotter longer, but that's not what seems to have happened here).
> 
> My volume into fermenter was ~1L less than expected (already taking into account the expected 2L loss to trub). No big deal, but just unexpected. The only explanantion I could come up with (besides human error) was that I could have been more patient waiting for the last of the sparge water to drip through (but really, I guessed that would've been only 0.01L max still in the grain bed).
> 
> My OG was spot on (something I'd always undershot during BIAB, so that was a first for me).



Not sure I've got the full gist, so bare with me. Your previous 15L BIAB's were then made up to 23? L batches at the FV? if so, then the hops would have a lower utilisation than you're now getting, thus the higher bitterness. Hope that makes sense.

Doesn't matter about crumbly hops, it all gets broken down in the boil anyway. Fuggles this year was really loose pellets and so was Galaxy among others.

When you get to the stage of chilling and recirculating the chilled wort, it's nice to see the temperature drop, but isn't really necessary. Even at this time of year when the tap water is quite warm in most parts (ours is today 32 deg C from the cold tap) after 20 minutes of recirculating it, you can safely move the outlet hose to the FV. The temp control unit can be powered off with the red button and there won't be any heat applied via the element. The other thing you can do is just disconnect the element from underside of the control unit. sounds like it was still trying to get to mash temp. If you really need reassurance of the temperature, then switch the bottom setting to mash and the top switch to the middle setting (off). If you need more reassurance, drop the set temp to 20 Deg C so it won't switch on no matter what. There will be some radiated heat from the element for quite some time after powering off though.

Always worth while to check to ensure you're at 28L pre-boil for a 23L batch and 60minute boil. Might have been a bit more than you thought left in the grain bed.


Martin


----------



## kaiserben

Cheers. 

Yeah - I think I ended up setting the controller to 20C (because I'd read about this happening) just to be sure, but that was right at the very end of the transfer. 

Numbers for my previous BIAB (full volume) brews were always ~14L into boil, ~9L into FV, and ~7.5L into packaging. And I was using 23g @60min and 7.5g @10min (which apparently gave 42IBU according to the "BIABacus" spreadsheet I was using).

Exact numbers for latest GF brew ... I don't have in front of me but was calculated to be 40IBU by BrewMate software after changing some default settings to suit GF. (and for exact water amounts on brew day I reverted back to the formula provided by iMake for the GF.


----------



## matt211181

Does anyone know if there's plans to release the GF without the chiller? I already have a plate chiller and an immersion chiller, and I don't think I'd find a use for the included CFC....


----------



## postmaster

Hi

I am yet to receive my GF, but have done a few BIABs using both BS and BIABacus.

The attached information on which I claim no credit for was found on the internet.

I have put this profile into both Equipment and Mash profiles.

It does seem to work.

After completing the profiles and putting in 5 kg grain. BS Mash 18.60 litres Sparge 13.57 total 32.17 litres
Grainfather Calculator 17.00 litres Sparge 15.00 total 32.00 litres

The mash volume was high, but the sparge volume was low. Not sure if this will have any effect.
This was with a 60 minutes boil, so if you did a 90 minutes boil 1 litre would need to be added.

I am not sure that this will work, but the proof will be in the pudding. :unsure: opps in the brewing :beerbang:
I have also had a look at BIABacus and it could be used, but if you have a proven receipe for 23 litre why not just us the GF calculator.

There a a lot of unanswered question here, but food for thought.

Cheers 

View attachment Grainfather profile - beer smith.docx


----------



## bradsbrew

[QUOTE="]
I am not sure that this will work, but the proof will be in the pudding. 



Cheers
[/QUOTE]The proof of the pudding is in the eating.


----------



## kaiserben

postmaster said:


> I have also had a look at BIABacus and it could be used, but if you have a proven receipe for 23 litre why not just us the GF calculator.


I rarely use a proven recipe (I like to create my own recipes).

But I reckon I'll just switch over to BrewMate (at the very least it gets me in the right area during recipe design and then I can switch over to the GF calculator for brew day).


----------



## Maverick

Hi all,

I have just competed my first brew on the Grainfather system and my initial thoughts are ... wow... this is brilliant and I can't wait to brew more. As I am very new to brewing and this forum i'll prime this post with this being my first all-grain brew and I was very nervous about the process and using a new tool.

Summary:

1. Total brew time including initial setup of the unit, testing, washing, dry-run of recipe, the actual brew, chilling, fermenting and cleanup (proper full clean as per GF manual) 10am start - 5pm finish
2. The experience was wonderful for a new brewer and the instructions in the supplied manual (together) with the Grainfather online videos leaves nothing to be desired. 
3. Whilst there were lessons learned (below) on the unit and the brew process, most of these were due to my inexperience and I feel most brewers may reminisce on similar first-time experiences. 
4. The hardest part was making my recipe, stumbling around for a BeerSmith2 mobile profile and working out what mash/sparge volume to use. In the end - the GF (NZ website) site has a great calculator or their math also works so just use that for now. There was a problem (below) with final volume into fermenter and i'm still working out what went wrong.

SIDE NOTE: I would like to give credit to David Moynagh over on the NZ beer forums for hist post on the BeerSmith profile - that was a world of help. This thread is located here: http://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/forum/topics/the-grain-father?commentId=1500433%3AComment%3A210609&xg_source=activity

5. This kit is tidy - well thought out in terms of design (easy replacement parts etc) very functional, and it is forgiving. Great engineering and balance for cost/material.
6. For what its worth as a new brewer - if you have the dosh for an electric semi-auto system - this cannot be beaten for price point in comparison to the competition and rumour has it full programable controller upgrade and manufacturer beersmith2 profiles are around the corner for those who want it all. Keep in mind - the grain bill on this unit is like 9KG so you can do those BIG beers (out of the box) that some other competitor units need complimentary processes for. 

NOTES ON THE PROCESS

* Mashed at 67c and the unit held this temp to 1 degree (when on mash setting with variable temp set to the smaller element)
* Ramp up times were very impressive with mashout taking 4 mins to get from 67 to 76.
* NOTE ON TEMP SETTING: if you want 66c then set it to 65 as she floats up and down a degree from time to time and the element does not click off till 1 degree over your set temp. Not an issue but thought I'd mention it.
* During the mash, at about 40 mins - lots of sporadic spurts of micro bubbles came from the pump into the top wort circulation. Not an issue but was not expected
* Sparge temp in the secondary boiler (pots etc) can be 76 as needed, but by the time you get it into a pourer, then have 10mm of water sparging above the mesh unit, I measured the temp of that 10mm of water being about 66-68 most of the time. I would make the sparge water much hotter next time to make sure 76 is getting to the grain.
* sparge time took about 35mins (due to trickling water through the grain taking time) so factor this in.
* lol... this is funny... always mix your pre-boil wort with the paddle before taking the SG reading... mine was like totally out then i realised it was probably mostly weak sparge water so i mixed it and my numbers were spot on.
* Handy trick with finding out what temp your wort chiller is pumping into your fermenter... as the pump is initially recirculating into the grainfather.. simply switch the pump off - pull out the hose and place it into your refractometer tube and then turn it on to get a small amount out. stop the pump again and test the SG and the temperature to ensure your getting what you want. 
*It was 26.9 outside this day, My wort was recirculating (via chiller) down to about 80c and I was just trickling the wort out from the exit hose and the temp was about 30c into fermenter so I had to pop the full fermenter into my fridge for a few hours to get it to 22 for pitching the yeast. Next time - I'm going to recirculate the wort until the grainfather temp reads about 50 or below and i'm hoping that will get the fermenter wort down to about 22c.
* I was left with about 700ml of trub... now thats because I had to tilt the grainfather so I could get as much as I could as for some reason my fermenter was only at 18.7L and I wanted at least 20 but was aiming for 23L. My gravity readings were spot on but I think its due to my estimated pre-boil volume was 28L but I only got 25.5 so thats where I think it went wrong. Now I'm such a noob I'm not sure WHY... but I'll figure that out (and welcome any help please!) - perhaps the grains just took up more sparge water than I estimated or some loss to chilling perhaps..
* oh and please use a hop sock. My recipe had stacks of hops and the sock I got from CraftBrewer (Brisbane) was a bit ghetto to install but it worked SO well there was not much trub to worry about and the pump never got stuck.
* So the hotbreak threw me... do you put your hops in the min the boiler gets to 100 and then stir the hop break in for 10 mins while the hop sock is in your way or do you simply hit boil, stir the hot break in and then once its gone start your timer and add 60 min hops? I did the later - it added 10 mins to my boil time... now theres a bit of my 3L missing wort i should think 
* a word on cleaning... do not forget to ensure there is NO wort or water left in the chiller. You'll only get a handful of uses out of it if you dont clear this out and follow the cleaning process set out by the Grainfather team. I am investigating getting a Co2 valve fitting so I can blow out any water etc.

MASH IN = 18.92L
SPARGE = 13.84L

Readings

Mash PH = 5.2 (used Calcium Sulphate for hoppyness and a PH stabaliser too. 5.2 before any additions and 5.2 all the way 
Pre Boil Vol Est = 28L. The actual was 25.5L ---- this may be my missing wort?
Pre Boil Gravity Est = 1.050. The actual was 1.052
Post Boil Vol Est = 23L. The actual was 22.7L
Post Boil Gravity Est = 1.056. The actual was 1.059
Into Fermenter Vol Est = 23L. The actual was 20L ----- lost to cooling? 
TRUB = 700ML ---- but I tipped the GF over a bit to get more wort out due to my fermenter vol undershoot.

THINGS I WILL GET FOR NEXT BREW

* more knowledge on where my 3L of wort went... lol
* much better clamping or holding device for the hop sock. During the chill... I wanted my 0min hops to sit there (like they would if you simply dumped them in) so I had to tie string to the grainfather external clamp (used for the spirit helmet) and let it just rest there while the glass lid and chiller did its thang.
* dedicated urn for sparge water with a sparge arm/dispenser or showerhead to make life easier so I dont get a temp drop from boiler to bucket to grain bed.
* dedicated scrubbing brush to ensure you get ALL the resin on the bottom of the grainfather or you will get a power trip if it builds up
* refractometer
* bulldog clips
* more cleaning agent (from GF manufacturer) 
* investigate Co2 valve for chiller to 'blow it out' for cleaning purposes. 

If you are on the edge about getting one of these bad boys - do it and if you are not keen on it sell it online while demand is high. I would caution to have very established fermenting processes (temp controlled fridges etc) and a good cleaning processes before investing money into this kit but thats really a given isnt it!  Oh and Kegs are just great inventions! 

I think its something that you'll get good return on if you leave the hobby etc but damn its a nice bit of kit and made the whole brewing process really fun and enjoyable. I cannot wait to brew again - this time a BIG beer... and more of a point... can't wait to taste the Beer that comes out of this batch. If the wort is anything to go by its a nice balanced beer coming in the next few weeks!

Enjoy!


----------



## kaiserben

Maverick said:


> * So the hotbreak threw me... do you put your hops in the min the boiler gets to 100 and then stir the hop break in for 10 mins while the hop sock is in your way or do you simply hit boil, stir the hot break in and then once its gone start your timer and add 60 min hops? I did the later - it added 10 mins to my boil time... now theres a bit of my 3L missing wort i should think


Put hops in after the hot break dissipates. And start your 60 min boil countdown from then. It won't evaporate much at all in that short period of time. 

My preference (based on a hybrid of some German techniques and a lot of reading of Aussie forums) is to boil for 75 mins (so obviously hot break will have dissipated by my 60 min addition). 

If you're really worried about losing wort to evap, then you could always calculate that early hop addition as a 55 min addition.


----------



## kaiserben

2nd brew on the GF done yesterday. Another mostly relaxing brew day. 6 hours including preparation and clean up, when doing a 60min mash and ~70min boil. I reckon that 6 hours can be cut down to 5 (see the 'obvious tips for beginners' below). 

The only hassle (if you can call it that) is the need to prepare ~15L of 75C sparge water in some other vessel (meaning the GF isn't quite the amazing all-in-one system one might think it is). If you have a thermometer and a >15L container it's no big deal. 

I'd never gone close to a hot break boil over in previous BIAB brewing (or even in my first GF brew), but yesterday I went sooooo close. 

Some fairly obvious tips that might help beginners: 

If you're in a small apartment, your shower is an easy place to rinse/wash the inner grain basket (take a scrubbing brush). 

About half way through sparging, switch the GF temp controller to boil (and element controller to normal). Once you've finished sparging the temp will have a head start on its way to boiling. (could save about 20 mins of waiting for temp to reach boil). 

During the post-use clean up, you're meant to use 55C water for the cleaning and rinsing. Try to guesstimate that temp as it comes out of your household tap, without overshooting that temp by too much (could save you another 25-30 mins mins of waiting for cold tap water to get to 55C twice).


----------



## stux

kaiserben said:


> During the post-use clean up, you're meant to use 55C water for the cleaning and rinsing. Try to guesstimate that temp as it comes out of your household tap, without overshooting that temp by too much (could save you another 25-30 mins mins of waiting for cold tap water to get to 55C twice).


My hot tap comes out at 55C 

Sounds like a 20L urn would be a nice accessory


----------



## kaiserben

First time around I filled a stainless steel fermenter with boiling water before doing anything else. By the time I was ready for sparge that water was sitting at 70C (so just boiled and added a couple of kitchen kettles to the mix, then adjusted volume, then sparged through the snap tap and a funnel to direct it). 
Second time around my SS fermenter was being used, so I just heated my sparge water to 75C on a stove top in a 19L Big W pot. (was a bit tricky because pot has no tap, so I scooped out 500ml at a time in a glass with a handle). 

NOTE: Correction to earlier post- you need 55C with the cleaning solution, but only need cold for the rinse.


----------



## acarey

Has anyone tried deviating from the grainfather strike and sparge water calculations? I've done one brew and it called for 14 litres of sparge water. This was painful.

So does anyone see any issues with using a greater amount of strike water so the sparge doesn't need to be so big? I'm not doing another brew for a week or so and would like to get others thoughts.


----------



## dean1639

I just had a look at the grainfather Facebook page, they now have an urn for the sparge water 18L. Cost is $150


----------



## jc64

Thinking of getting one of these units. What is the wort clarity like pre boil?


----------



## bradsbrew

bradsbrew said:


> You can use more than a litre at a time, as long as the sparge water does not go over the return. Should just be able to raise the return up so you can fit more water in.
> I tested out an 80% volume mash yesterday.
> experimental mild
> Filled to 26L , heated to 68 and added 3.875kg of grain(3.2kg base)
> after the mash had drained I added another 6L of water.
> 22L into the cube + 2 L in a flask @ 1.041, have not done the calcs but efficiency was a log higher than what I had expected.





acarey said:


> Has anyone tried deviating from the grainfather strike and sparge water calculations? I've done one brew and it called for 14 litres of sparge water. This was painful.
> 
> So does anyone see any issues with using a greater amount of strike water so the sparge doesn't need to be so big? I'm not doing another brew for a week or so and would like to get others thoughts.


I will be pushing the mash in volume next batch to as much as I can get in then just sparge to get to the 28L pre boil. I am hoping a 5L jug will be enough.
I have not yet fermented the batch above.


----------



## HBHB

acarey said:


> Has anyone tried deviating from the grainfather strike and sparge water calculations? I've done one brew and it called for 14 litres of sparge water. This was painful.
> 
> So does anyone see any issues with using a greater amount of strike water so the sparge doesn't need to be so big? I'm not doing another brew for a week or so and would like to get others thoughts.



Yep, tried a straight 50:50 split and it worked OK, but no better than the formula set out in the booklet.

If you drop your sparge back too far expect to get similar efficiencies to BIAB. Personally, I'd be sparging with at least 10 L. 

OR, fix the problem. If you're getting a stuck sparge, adjust your milling a touch, pay attention to mash pH and get your sparge water UP so it passes through the grain at about 75-76 degrees C. Expect it to take 30 odd minutes + to drain through. Be patient and have a home brew.



jc64 said:


> Thinking of getting one of these units. What is the wort clarity like pre boil?


Crystal clear mostly see pic


----------



## acarey

Cheers. I didn't have any problems except heating that much sparge water since I had to sell my birko to buy the GF. Now I'm saving for a small urn... Sigh.

But I'll play around with the volumes and see how my efficiency goes.


----------



## bradsbrew

Instead of spending your hard earned on an urn, seriously consider one of these and an over the side element. I got one with the GF but already had the element. The mash pipe of the GF also fits in to capture the last of the wort as well.
Instead of the element you also can just use hot water from the tap plus a cheap kitchen kettle, wouldnt take long to work out the volume ratio to hit your target sparge temp. Qldkev would probably have a calc. http://www.nationalhomebrew.com.au/multi-purpose-parts-and-accessoriesfermenters-parts-and-accessoriesmangrove-jacks-stainless-steel-fermenter-25l 
cheers


----------



## Bomber Watson

THats the same price as the urn?


----------



## jc64

Is that crystal clear clarity after lifting and draining the malt pipe? If so I'm on it tomorrow


----------



## bradsbrew

Bomber Watson said:


> THats the same price as the urn?


Can't send the chilled wort back to the urn.


----------



## Florian

jc64 said:


> Is that crystal clear clarity after lifting and draining the malt pipe? If so I'm on it tomorrow


from the pic it looks like it's on top of the malt pipe before lifting. so no.


----------



## jc64

Well that would suck. Surely the benefit of this and the Braumeister is to provide a grain bed to give better pre boil clarity than BIAB can provide when it is removed. The cloudy wort was the only thing that moved me from the pillow case to 3v.


----------



## Snow

jc64 said:


> Well that would suck. Surely the benefit of this and the Braumeister is to provide a grain bed to give better pre boil clarity than BIAB can provide when it is removed. The cloudy wort was the only thing that moved me from the pillow case to 3v.


There is a grainbed in the grainfather. You pull it out of the boiler prior to sparging. The wort left behind is clear.


----------



## HBHB

Clarity post elevation to mash out and post sparge are as pictured, though the pic is about 45 minutes into the mash, recirculating. The malt basket is lifted, drained and sparged over the top, through the grain bed as normal. It's typically pretty clear.


----------



## jc64

HBHB said:


> Clarity post elevation to mash out and post sparge are as pictured, though the pic is about 45 minutes into the mash, recirculating. The malt basket is lifted, drained and sparged over the top, through the grain bed as normal. It's typically pretty clear.


Thanks for the info.


----------



## HBHB

Here's a better one pre-boil Munich Dunkel going through my unit now


----------



## kaiserben

HBHB said:


> Munich Dunkel


Slightly off-topic, I'm keen to make a dunkel, but specifically want to try to clone the Weltenburger Kloster Baroch Dunkel (extensive forum and google searching hasn't really helped, and my palate isn't refined enough to tell me in what direction to take a basic dunkel recipe and make it more like a Weltenburger). Any tips would be greatly appreciated (maybe via PM to keep this thread on topic).


----------



## bradsbrew

Clarity of the end product is pretty good to.


----------



## Hippy

bradsbrew said:


> Clarity of the end product is pretty good to.


Gravity defyingly good :lol: 
Are there any filtering or clarifying agents involved there bb?


----------



## bradsbrew

Bit of irish moss in the boil and gelatine in the keg.
No filtering required.


----------



## Hippy

OK good to know,thanks.
About ready to crash chill my first two brews.


----------



## wambesi

Although strictly not a Grainfather guide it is a solution I have come up in support of the Grainfather brewing system.

I just spent the day wiring up a new control panel to "pimp the urn".

Most of the components (except the timer) was in my existing previous HERMS control panel so it was just the addition of the timer and a control box I had lying around and came up with this.

It controls the urn and the mag pump to pump the water across - pretty happy with the outcome!

Now to get ready for another brew day.


----------



## nala

HBHB said:


> We managed a 9kg grain bill which was a squeeze along with quite a few up in the 7-8+ kg range mate. Most of course were in the 4.5-6kg range. Would have to pull the figures for exact efficiencies, but the 9kg was still around 72% off the top of my head. That's probably the lowest figures we've pulled. The Gympie demo last Friday was dialled in on the recipe at 75% Brewhouse efficiency and overshot pre boil estimated Gravity by 0.013 and post boil by 0.011. That was a 5.5kg pale malt, .2kg caramunich 1 and .2kg wheat malt grain bill. Working on a foggy memory here. I'm sure one of the guys could check it.
> Our test unit shall henceforth be known as the town tart, since it's been fondled by every bloke and his dog between Bundy and Brisbane.
> Roger D took the unit for some trials and in a moment of weakness did a crazy big double choc cherry oatmeal stout that could be the cure for the common cold. He can add his figures, but it was a squeeze along with some familiarity issues that arose.
> Highest was on a fairly large lager grain bill which was up Over 88% BHE. Again, other guys will have the figures. Not exactly typical, but certainly pretty impressive. I have a Boston lager clone on tap at the moment that is as clean as a whistle that achieved something up over the 80% BHE. It's a beer where there's nowhere to hide off flavours or astringency.
> We haven't played around much with smaller grain bills and will do a few up in the coming weeks to play around with lighter session beers in the 2.6-3.5 % Abv. Something that is often missing on tap here.
> Hope this helps.


I find the topic very interesting, but I cannot understand why the Grainfather gives these amazing results.
Brewing is quite a simple process, we use water, milled grains, control the time and temperature for mashing, we circulate the wort, we sparge etc etc. Could someone explain why the Grainfather does this better than a 3V system? 
My 3V system has all the attributes of the Grainfather but I must confess that I get nothing like these results.
I appreciate that a lot of the excitement and eulogy about another new inovation have to taken into account but how can the application of time and temperature on a standard commodity like grain give these amazing results?


----------



## Crusty

Why aren't you getting these results? I don't own the GF but I do own a 50lt Braumeister & it doesn't make better beer than my ex 3V Rims but the total process is much simpler, more compact & much quicker clean up. My mash efficiency is always mid 80%+ & I base my brewhouse eff on 78% & my numbers are pretty bang on. Where is your system letting you down. Maybe take a look at your crush, time at Sac rest & sparge. This is where you'll gain some extraction potential.


----------



## MastersBrewery

I'd have to agree with crusty above, high 70's to low 80's is achievable with almost any AG system, some make hitting those numbers a little easier on the end user, end of the day anywhere in to 70's and you should then be looking for better consistency not efficiency. The other important 2 would be water profile and mash PH.


Mike


----------



## HBHB

nala said:


> I find the topic very interesting, but I cannot understand why the Grainfather gives these amazing results.
> Brewing is quite a simple process, we use water, milled grains, control the time and temperature for mashing, we circulate the wort, we sparge etc etc. Could someone explain why the Grainfather does this better than a 3V system?
> My 3V system has all the attributes of the Grainfather but I must confess that I get nothing like these results.
> I appreciate that a lot of the excitement and eulogy about another new inovation have to taken into account but how can the application of time and temperature on a standard commodity like grain give these amazing results?


No idea, all I know is that my 3K 3V system is sitting under a cover gathering dust because the GF is altogether easier to work with for a single batch. Brew days are about an hr shorter and clean ups are about 45 minutes quicker as well. 

For efficiency, I keep pulling up around the 76-78% Brewhouse efficiency but have had significantly higher than that. My 3V pulls 70-72%. Not that it's a competition or a skite point blah blah. 

Frankly, I don't think there's any 1 thing that causes it to be higher, I think it's a whole bunch of different things. At the end of the day, there's a few hundred new owners enjoying their brew days a whole lot more than before and getting great results from a fairly priced unit that just works well. 53 or ?54 brews along and our town tart demo unit is still going strong. Hell, it even still has blingy shiny bits still. Though the wort hoses on the chiller will be replaced soon with some silicon ones.


Martin


----------



## stux

zero mashtun deadspace loss...


----------



## Snow

Constantly recirculating wort.


----------



## postmaster

Hi
Just done my first Grainfather - Brown Ale. (have done this before in a BIAB with great results)
Hit all the targets expect the 90 min boil used 500 ml more.
The mash was nice and clear. 67c
As soon as I started to do a Mash out at 75c it became cloudy and a lot of sediment. (comparing this to biab)
This was evident in the boil and through the wort chiller and into the fermenter
My crush was .035inch or .90mm..
This had a bit of flour, but a lot of the husks were in tack.
No stuck sparge.

Any thoughts. :huh:


----------



## bradsbrew

Are replacement parts going to be readily available? I put a small cut in my top mash plate seal (user error) and I am on to my second return arm seal (once again user error, despite Martins specific advice).

The more I use this system the more I like it.


----------



## meathead

2nd brew with the GF today, hit gravity numbers, very happy with process and easy clean up.
A question
Very slow sparge, as in painfully slow. What factors influence this, is it just the courseness of the crush or is there another reason?
I did notice that if I raised the overflow pipe this sped things up a bit


----------



## jc64

As I'm waiting for my unit I was wondering what default settings people are using with the brewmate software?


----------



## HBHB

postmaster said:


> Hi
> Just done my first Grainfather - Brown Ale. (have done this before in a BIAB with great results)
> Hit all the targets expect the 90 min boil used 500 ml more.
> The mash was nice and clear. 67c
> As soon as I started to do a Mash out at 75c it became cloudy and a lot of sediment. (comparing this to biab)
> This was evident in the boil and through the wort chiller and into the fermenter
> My crush was .035inch or .90mm..
> This had a bit of flour, but a lot of the husks were in tack.
> No stuck sparge.
> 
> Any thoughts. :huh:


A little flour won't hurt. Sounds like more a case of the grain beds been disturbed by dumping water on top of it to cause the cloudiness.



bradsbrew said:


> Are replacement parts going to be readily available? I put a small cut in my top mash plate seal (user error) and I am on to my second return arm seal (once again user error, despite Martins specific advice).
> 
> The more I use this system the more I like it.


DOH ! Will check and advise Brad. Supposed to be a full range of spares being arranged.



meathead said:


> 2nd brew with the GF today, hit gravity numbers, very happy with process and easy clean up.
> A question
> Very slow sparge, as in painfully slow. What factors influence this, is it just the courseness of the crush or is there another reason?
> I did notice that if I raised the overflow pipe this sped things up a bit


Slow sparge would mainly be from either the way it's been milled (maybe too fine) or adjuncts use causing gumming.

Moving the overflow pipe shouldn't change the rate of flow unless it's enlarged a gap, creating a wall flow effect and it's running down the outside of the pipe rather than through the grain bed itself. again, worth checking your milling and if using adjuncts simple to do a step mash to top the gumming if that's the cause.


----------



## wambesi

I've adjusted my mill (mashmaster minimill) from 0.9mm where I had an excruciatingly slow sparge to 1.2mm where it was done much quicker. 

0.9 worked well on my old system, but not the Grainfather. I'd check this.


----------



## meathead

Thanks for the reply
LHBS did the crush 
Would a handful of ricehulls help?


----------



## HBHB

wambesi said:


> I've adjusted my mill (mashmaster minimill) from 0.9mm where I had an excruciatingly slow sparge to 1.2mm where it was done much quicker.
> 0.9 worked well on my old system, but not the Grainfather. I'd check this.



Different mills with different rollers. In store we are currently using a custom made 8" mill with 7cm diameter rollers. Set at .87mm it's perfect for the GF. Different mills, with different rolling diameters and different knurling will all turn out different results. Even the speed they are run at can vary the results.



meathead said:


> Thanks for the reply
> LHBS did the crush
> Would a handful of ricehulls help?


Should do. Worth trying.


----------



## HBHB

Another clarity pic Sam Adams Boston Lager Clone.


----------



## jc64

Might adjust my mill out to 1mm before my first brew going off these posts.


----------



## Bomber Watson

wambesi said:


> I've adjusted my mill (mashmaster minimill) from 0.9mm where I had an excruciatingly slow sparge to 1.2mm where it was done much quicker.
> 
> 0.9 worked well on my old system, but not the Grainfather. I'd check this.


Excelent, i have a mashmaster minimill as well, good to see some results from someone who has used both products in conjunction 

Cheers.


----------



## meathead

With the sparge would it be ok to take the top plate off, use a watering can type pourer and give the grains a stir if it gets a bit slow?


----------



## postmaster

No disturbance of the grain bed, Just followed the GF instructions, but as soon as I did a mash out. (heat to 75 deg) it became cloudy with sediment, during the 60 mins mash it was lovely and clear.


----------



## meathead

Third brew today, LCBA clone
Filled GF with water at 3pm and just finishing clean up,now
Sparge went well, less wheat than last effort and courser crush
This piece of kit is a ripper
The thing I like about is temperature control and the pump
Brew day a lot less stressful


----------



## enoch

I've done 3 brews since Christmas. All have been fairly stress free.
8kg is the realistic maximum grain bill. Beyond that it is a bit too full to get the top screen on. Next time I'll try less water for a big grain bill.
Definitely needs a gentle crush or it does struggle a bit too.
As I am coming down from a bigger system I have been stretching the brew length by brewing higher gravity 1060+ and diluting with 10 litres into the fermenter to give 35 litres at 1040-1050.
Last brew I hooked up an Ardbir controller and it was fantastic! Step mashed through to mashout and able to turn down the boil to control boilover.
Overall a great bit of kit and flexible enough to just decide to brew rather than the go through the set up and knock down of the old (and now lonely) big system.
The old system is likely to turn into a great grainfather hacked together from bits. I'll still use the small one most of the time though.


----------



## bradsbrew

Looks like I can brew in the house again. Probably should fix that skirting, bah , I'll wait until the floor gets done.

The GF has also had it's first mod done.


----------



## Natdene

I have done two brews on mine now, one no chill, one using the chiller and its a great bit of kit. Second brew it got a bit foamy in the last ten min of the mash, but a quick call to Martin at HBHB and my fears were put to rest. I would like to say that the service from HBHB has been outstanding, ordered the unit and delivered in two days to Brisbane, came with a few little extras that really impressed me and I will be using them again!

Both brews hit all their numbers and are in the fermenters now and can't wait to try them.
Coming from BIAB I don't think it has saved me anytime on brew day but being able to circulate and keep a constant temp is a big plus. I will post some pics over the weekend to show how clear the wort gets.

One comment I have on my unit and looks the same on Bradsbrew, the return pipe could have been 5/10mm longer to fit better into the centre hole on the lid, which would make connecting to the black nut a lot easier.


----------



## wambesi

For those on here who do have feedback and are not in the Facebook users group, send it through to their email addresses. 

These guys are very proactive to issues and want as much feedback as possible to improve what they can.


----------



## Natdene

wambesi said:


> For those on here who do have feedback and are not in the Facebook users group, send it through to their email addresses.
> These guys are very proactive to issues and want as much feedback as possible to improve what they can.


Thanks for that wambesi, just joined up, I didn't know it existed


----------



## wambesi

No worries.


----------



## jc64

Just joined as well, yet to actually get time to even assemble the unit yet though.


----------



## jc64

Assembled and running through the initial cleaning process. Is there a good way to ensure the counter flow wort chiller is completely drained? I'm used to using a immersion chiller and feel a bit uncomfortable about using the chiller, not being able to see the inside etc.

Also just wondering how long are people running the still near boiling wort through the chiller to sanitise? And are people doing a whirlpool to minimise the trub going into the fermenter?

Cheers


----------



## wambesi

I drain by rotating the chiller a few more times than actual coils which gets rid of most. I also do a co2 blast as well. 

As to sanitising I will run the hot wort through back into the Grainfather for a while. 

This sort of makes a whirlpool as well and once the temp has dropped well I then run it into the fermenter.


----------



## Trevandjo

Finally got a gf brew down. I had some issues with the chiller. I ran tank water (20deg) through an pre chiller in an ice bath before reaching the chiller. After 40min the temp seemed to stall out at 23deg. The body of the gf was still bloody hot. I was running water at about 3L/min. Is there a way I can better get the temp lower or do I just need to be more patient? Would cooling the outside of the gf help?

Trev


----------



## postmaster

[SIZE=medium]No disturbance of the grain bed, Just followed the GF instructions, but as soon as I did a mash out. (heat to 75 deg) it became cloudy with sediment, during the 60 mins mash it was lovely and clear.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]This is the reply from “Grainfather Support”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]So talking to our tech team :[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]The grain crush is within standard parameters.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Our first thought would be maybe a bump to the unit which disturbed the grainbed -although that seems pretty hard to do. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Second thought is that as the temperature has increased a high mash pH and raised temperature has contributed to an excessive polyphenol and protein extraction into the wort although we are not sure why these are visible at this temperature.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Most likely reason is that as the temperature has increased the viscosity of the wort has decreased and the fluidity of the mash bed has increased creating an increase in pressure between the pump and the filter plate pulling particles that were previously caught by the mash bed into the wort, this increase in pressure is one of the main reasons why lautering/runoff’s become cloudy even though they often start of clear. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]The best solution to this problem would be to continue recirculating until it runs clear again and then sparged. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]My reply in acknowledgement[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]I did measure the PH pre-boil and It was 5.6 which I think is okay.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] Will keep in mind the recirculating until clear and then sparge, if this happens again.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] Initially when I took a gravity reading in the fermenter it was still very cloudy and a lot of protein but,[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]I have just pulled a sample from the fermenter and I must say the beer is very clear and I have not used any finings. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] Anyway it all looks good [/SIZE]


----------



## mrsupraboy

Sorry guys has someone figured out the beersmith equipment profile yet


----------



## wambesi

Mine works fine with the 7 litre part removed from the one doing the rounds


----------



## stevodevo

Hi All,

Hopefully posting this question in the correct spot?

I'm keen to get some informed opinions about how these would go with small 10 litre batches? I really like everything about the Grainfather, and the wife has given full approval for the purchase (yes it will cost me), so I'm really just looking to dispel any niggling concerns I have about it working well for my micro(scopic) brewery situation (I did 5L brews for ages and had heaps of fun but it is a lot of work for 2 six packs)... There's specific instructions in the manual for grain bills under 4.5KG which just say to keep adding enough water at the mashing stage to just cover the top plate, but keep a record of how much extra was added to deduct that from the sparge water. I've never done all grain before, so I'm unsure if this is a case of being, yes you can do it... but it won't really produce the best results. Doing some quick calcs in Beer Smith I'm thinking my grain bills might be as low as 2KG total! That said, I really like the idea of having something versatile enough that I have the option to do a full sized batch when I nail a recipe and feel confident enough to share it around :beer:

This guy in this YouTube link does a great review where he does a full size brew, as well as a 10 litre brew and it seems to go well for him - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmkRuLdLH5U


Thanks 

Usual disclaimer for small batch brewers... I like to brew, but don't really drink a lot. It lets me experiment often without drowning in the stuff.


----------



## meathead

wambesi said:


> Mine works fine with the 7 litre part removed from the one doing the rounds


Is there a link to the one doing the rounds?


----------



## wambesi

meathead said:


> Is there a link to the one doing the rounds?


There is on the Facebook group but I don't have access at the moment, otherwise I'd post it for you. 

If no one else does I'll try and get to it when I get home.


----------



## stevodevo

OK, I just went and had a look at one in a shop. The telescopic overflow pipe only goes down as low as about the 20 litre mark (give or take). My *total *boil volume will likely only be around 15L. Am I right in thinking it won't matter (or even be preferable) that I won't hit the overflow? The top plate goes down far enough that it will sit down on the grain bed (not using the top section of overflow pipe), and by my [noob] way of thinking, it's desirable to not have any recirculating wort going over into the overflow so that everything has to get sucked down through the grain bed. Am I on the right track?


----------



## stux

Chuck a brick in the mash


----------



## wambesi

This is my profile I've been using for last three brews. Seems to work all right.
It's from one originally submitted on the Grainfather's Facebook group but I removed the 7L deadspace.

View attachment BS-Grainfather-Profile.bsmx


----------



## meathead

wambesi said:


> This is my profile I've been using for last three brews. Seems to work all right.
> It's from one originally submitted on the Grainfather's Facebook group but I removed the 7L deadspace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BS-Grainfather-Profile.bsmx


Thanks much appreciated


----------



## meathead

meathead said:


> Thanks much appreciated





wambesi said:


> This is my profile I've been using for last three brews. Seems to work all right.
> It's from one originally submitted on the Grainfather's Facebook group but I removed the 7L deadspace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BS-Grainfather-Profile.bsmx


I can't open it, any advise?


----------



## warnerbrew

Thanks Wambesi

Meathead - open it in beer smith 2, (file->open) - the select Grainfather (DBB) and edit -> copy, then open your equipment profile (profiles -> equipment) and edit->paste.

hope that helps!


----------



## meathead

Thanks but no good Safari doesn't like it
Can somebody post a screenshot?


----------



## meathead

OK I've been a busy boy and all is sorted
The answer lies here

http://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/forum/topics/the-grain-father?commentId=1500433%3AComment%3A210609&xg_source=activity


----------



## postmaster

Here is another BS setting in the NZ forum.

http://www.forum.realbeer.co.nz/forum/topics/the-grain-father?id=1500433%3ATopic%3A202253&page=23


----------



## wambesi

They're mostly the same blokes from the FB group so it's most likely the same settings as attached above.


----------



## mrsupraboy

Did a maiden run today. Was stoked pulled an efficiency on 94%


----------



## rick1111082

Jealous mate i got a stuck sparge with a 49% wheat bill I'll be lucky to get 70%


----------



## bradsbrew

mrsupraboy said:


> Did a maiden run today. Was stoked pulled an efficiency on 94%


Are you counting volume in kettle or volume in fermenter?


----------



## mrsupraboy

I've taken all the calcs and from all the way through


----------



## bradsbrew

mrsupraboy said:


> I've taken all the calcs and from all the way through


Yeah but is that 94% eff on volume sent to fermenter?


----------



## mrsupraboy

Yes


----------



## HBHB

Jesus, what'd you do. Run a steam roller over the grain? 

Still tweaking my Beersmith profile.


----------



## slcmorro

If you truly got 94%, you are a god.


----------



## Yob

slcmorro said:


> If you truly got 94%, you are a god.


----------



## mrsupraboy

I've always hit 75% biab. I fly sparged which took an hour. And a few weeks ago I did a brew date and learned how to sparge. I got him to check my mill and He said that I probably have a bit to much of a crush.


----------



## wobbly

mrsupraboy said:


> Did a maiden run today. Was stoked pulled an efficiency on 94%



Not doubting you but give us the numbers so we can see where we are missing out!!!

Grain Bill in Kgs
mash vol in litres
mash time/duration and mash schedule
sparge Vol and duration
SG at end of sparge
litres at start of boil
litres at end of boil
SG at end of boil
Litres into fermenter
SG of wort prior to pitching yeast
For starters
Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## mrsupraboy

Is there away to take a screen shot of a computer/beersmith so I can post the results up easier. Knowingly my luck did something wrong. I entered everything it told me to


----------



## stux

mrsupraboy said:


> Is there away to take a screen shot of a computer/beersmith so I can post the results up easier. Knowingly my luck did something wrong. I entered everything it told me to


http://www.take-a-screenshot.org


----------



## jc64

wobbly said:


> Not doubting you but give us the numbers so we can see where we are missing out!!!
> 
> Grain Bill in Kgs
> mash vol in litres
> mash time/duration and mash schedule
> sparge Vol and duration
> SG at end of sparge
> litres at start of boil
> litres at end of boil
> SG at end of boil
> Litres into fermenter
> SG of wort prior to pitching yeast
> For starters
> Cheers
> 
> Wobbly


For Starters?? Pretty sure if all that info is posted I'm sated


----------



## mrsupraboy

Best pics i could take


----------



## bradsbrew

I get 79% for 27L from 4.67kg


----------



## slcmorro

They're some expensive lemons you're using there!


----------



## warnerbrew

Got a question for other grainfather users - do you clean your GF immediately prior to use? And when I say clean - do you just rinse, or run it through a full cleaning cycle? or ....

My question comes from having done 4 brews on the GF - the first came out with a chemical tasting off flavour, the second had a hint of that chemical taste, the third was ok and the 4th that has just finished fermenting has an incredibly strong metallic taste.

In going from 1st to 3rd brew, I thought I had eliminate most of my 'noob' errors, but the 4th is as undrinkable as the first.

So - in the process of elimination - the GF has been sitting idle for 2 weeks, i'm about to do a CHUR! pale ale - one of the 'grain kids' and want to ensure i'm doing everything I can to not screw it up!

Thanks.


----------



## kaiserben

Full clean cycle straight after use (which includes a rinse). 

Then a quick rinse before the next use. 

I've noticed the water rinsing the chiller (before next use) starts off discoloured, so it's probably very wise to be rinsing that before use - even if it's going to get sanitised with boiling wort.


----------



## wambesi

I do a full clean and dry straight after a brew day.

I have a look before on the brew day, if it needs a rinse I do - most of the time - I do not.
First three beers have tasted fine - and the fifth is being made right now.

Sounds like maybe the first clean didn't go right. Try filling it up with water, then grab cup of water and taste it. Then boil for 60 minutes or so and (once cooled) taste again - that could help to see if it is a cleaning or chemical issue perhaps.


----------



## warnerbrew

Cheers Kaiserben and Wambesi

Yes - I do a full clean and rinse after use but i'll do another rinse and clean before hand.

Yes I also suspected that my first clean wasn't thorough enough so I grabbed some more cleaning solution and spend an hour recycling solution and another hour and a half recycling clean water at 80 degrees. 

I'll try your suggestion this afternoon Wambesi.

Thanks.


----------



## wambesi

warnerbrew said:


> Cheers Kaiserben and Wambesi
> 
> Yes - I do a full clean and rinse after use but i'll do another rinse and clean before hand.
> 
> Yes I also suspected that my first clean wasn't thorough enough so I grabbed some more cleaning solution and spend an hour recycling solution and another hour and a half recycling clean water at 80 degrees.
> 
> I'll try your suggestion this afternoon Wambesi.
> 
> Thanks.


That's a long cycle - but I understand if you suspect the tainted tastes coming through there.
What solution are you using? I've been using PBW since my second brew.

Each cleaning/rinse cycle is only 10-15 minutes now.

Hope you get it sorted.

With the ultra metallic brew, pour a few drops on the back of your hand, give it a little run and smell it - if it is metallic this will increase the odour somewhat.

Do you keg/bottle? You could split a batch and see if one lot has the taste and another doesn't?


----------



## warnerbrew

Yes it was a long cycle but i'm trying to eliminate the problem - very new to all-grain and i've botched 3/4 so getting paranoid on what steps i'm either not doing or doing poorly.

I keg - this batch hasn't entered the keg yet - I took a final sample out of the primary and it smelt fine but tastes very metallic. It's sitting in the secondary now with gelatine but not sure if it will make the keg. Rubbing it on the back of my hand brings out a sharp metallic odour. The only thing that I changed that I recall is adding a hop spider which is SS - it's now soaking in a PWB solution and I might not use it tomorrow - just use a hop sock instead. 

I went and bought a bottle of the GF cleaner to use just to try and be on the safer side.

Unit has just reached the boil with some clean water - so cooling a sample from the unit and the chiller.


----------



## The Village Idiot

Pretty sure this question was asked earlier but can't see an answer..... can the unit be purchased without the chiller???


----------



## acarey

The Village Idiot said:


> Pretty sure this question was asked earlier but can't see an answer..... can the unit be purchased without the chiller???


I don't think so, plus you kinda need it to pump the beer out, even when no chilling. 

You could make something up to do the job but I haven't been bothered.


----------



## wambesi

The Village Idiot said:


> Pretty sure this question was asked earlier but can't see an answer..... can the unit be purchased without the chiller???


Not at this point, no.



acarey said:


> I don't think so, plus you kinda need it to pump the beer out, even when no chilling.
> 
> You could make something up to do the job but I haven't been bothered.


No, you could quite simply use the return arm and just slip the existing hose off, put a longer one on and run it through a different chiller (plate) or to the fermenter if using an immersion chiller.

I was actually going to do this with my plate chiller, but the included one is great - so my plate chiller now lives at another brewers house...permanently.


----------



## acarey

wambesi said:


> Not at this point, no.
> 
> 
> No, you could quite simply use the return arm and just slip the existing hose off, put a longer one on and run it through a different chiller (plate) or to the fermenter if using an immersion chiller.
> 
> I was actually going to do this with my plate chiller, but the included one is great - so my plate chiller now lives at another brewers house...permanently.


This is classed as making something (in my super lazy book)


----------



## jc64

warnerbrew said:


> Yes it was a long cycle but i'm trying to eliminate the problem - very new to all-grain and i've botched 3/4 so getting paranoid on what steps i'm either not doing or doing poorly.
> 
> I keg - this batch hasn't entered the keg yet - I took a final sample out of the primary and it smelt fine but tastes very metallic. It's sitting in the secondary now with gelatine but not sure if it will make the keg. Rubbing it on the back of my hand brings out a sharp metallic odour. The only thing that I changed that I recall is adding a hop spider which is SS - it's now soaking in a PWB solution and I might not use it tomorrow - just use a hop sock instead.
> 
> I went and bought a bottle of the GF cleaner to use just to try and be on the safer side.
> 
> Unit has just reached the boil with some clean water - so cooling a sample from the unit and the chiller.



How does the water taste? If you have a lot of chlorine or chloramines in you tap water and don't carbon filter it can impart a metallic flavour.


----------



## warnerbrew

Water tasted fine after this experiment - I use a 2 stage filter (under sink type) which has a particulate and a carbon. Water report from my area is pretty good - water straight out of the tap is fine to drink, not much chlorine or metals.

I inspected the GF and I noticed a stain on the bottom mash plate - so I took it apart - do you guys take this apart every time you clean? Found something that looked like rust between the nut and the perf plate. It's now sitting in a high concentration of pwb. Not sure if this would cause my metallic taste though but maybe?


----------



## BJB

warnerbrew said:


> Water tasted fine after this experiment - I use a 2 stage filter (under sink type) which has a particulate and a carbon. Water report from my area is pretty good - water straight out of the tap is fine to drink, not much chlorine or metals.
> 
> I inspected the GF and I noticed a stain on the bottom mash plate - so I took it apart - do you guys take this apart every time you clean? Found something that looked like rust between the nut and the perf plate. It's now sitting in a high concentration of pwb. Not sure if this would cause my metallic taste though but maybe?


My guess is yes it would, it's rust by the look of that. I'd pickle that so called stainless.


----------



## warnerbrew

hrm ok - I think I read that you can use a high concentration of star san to pickle? That right?


----------



## postmaster

Good luck with the cleaning.
[SIZE=12pt]What is the consensus on the crush size.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]I am using a 2 roller barley crusher set at .036 inch or .91 mm, not sure if this is two fine for a pilsner malt.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Any thoughts.  [/SIZE]


----------



## wambesi

Yeah that rust sign is not good, are you in the Facebook group? If so put it on there so the reps can see. 

I take it all apart for cleaning and drying myself and haven't seen anything like that yet. 

As to the crush size, mate that will vary from mill to mill. 

I'm currently playing with 1.2 to 1.25 on my Mashmaster Minimill. It seems the GF favours a coarser crush.


----------



## slcmorro

acarey said:


> I don't think so, plus you kinda need it to pump the beer out, even when no chilling.


Eh? What?

No mate. I just use another tube on the return arm and bang it right into a cube at 90+c.

Why would you need to pump the wort through the chiller, if you're not actually chilling?


----------



## meathead

slcmorro said:


> Eh? What?
> No mate. I just use another tube on the return arm and bang it right into a cube at 90+c.
> Why would you need to pump the wort through the chiller, if you're not actually chilling?


Same here, I whirlpool at 95 and pump into cube at 90


----------



## acarey

slcmorro said:


> Eh? What?
> 
> No mate. I just use another tube on the return arm and bang it right into a cube at 90+c.
> 
> Why would you need to pump the wort through the chiller, if you're not actually chilling?


As I mentioned above, after wambesi said the exact same thing, I haven't been bothered to do this.

As to why I pump it through the chiller when no chilling, its to get it into the cube.... if you don't use a coolant, it's like a big hose. 

I'm not sure that I needed to explain that but congrats on adding to your post count.


----------



## rick1111082

I pump through the chiller as well when no-chilling mainly so I can control the flow to the cube. I also had the cold water hose connection come off from the clamp last night be sure to retighten all clamps


----------



## amarks6

Anyone know if there are plans afoot to make a 50L Grainfather - and a programmable temp controller?


----------



## warnerbrew

rick1111082 said:


> I pump through the chiller as well when no-chilling mainly so I can control the flow to the cube. I also had the cold water hose connection come off from the clamp last night be sure to retighten all clamps


Rick - just had the same thing happen to me today - cold water blue hose came flying off during my brew this morning and was going to post the same 'warning' - checked all the other clamps and they all had a 1/2 turn to tighten.


----------



## rick1111082

warnerbrew said:


> Rick - just had the same thing happen to me today - cold water blue hose came flying off during my brew this morning and was going to post the same 'warning' - checked all the other clamps and they all had a 1/2 turn to tighten.


I was a bit annoyed but for a grand i guess its no braumeister but I am still very happy with it


----------



## wambesi

I can understand being annoyed but these things can happen to any bit of kit. No matter what brand or costings. 

Just like a lot of things mechanical and electrical, it pays to check things every now and then.


----------



## warnerbrew

wambesi said:


> I can understand being annoyed but these things can happen to any bit of kit. No matter what brand or costings.
> 
> Just like a lot of things mechanical and electrical, it pays to check things every now and then.


Yup - 100% agree, I was a little annoyed but more annoyed at myself for not re-checking the clamp(s). Did the same on the pump connection and it went about 1/4 of a turn even though I had tightened it up at the first setup.


----------



## acarey

I'd like to share a really positive experience I had with the grainfather teams response to an issue I had a few days ago.

When doing a stepped mash the other day, I noticed that it was taking between 3 and 4 minutes per degree to heat up between steps. This was weird becuase normally its around 1 minute 20 or so. This was with both elements turned on on the controller.

It turned out that when the switch at the base of the kettle was set to ‘mash’, switching the switch on the control unit between the settings marked with a | and || did nothing, i.e. when it was set to ||, the bigger element did not turn on.

However when the switch at the bottom of the unit was set to ‘Normal’ (bypassing the control unit), both elements function as expected. Looked like the element switch on the controller was stuffed. I ended up just witching between 'boil' and 'normal' at the base of the unit, when changing temps so the mash didn't take all day.

I sent this info to the guys at Grainfather directly via email and they had a replacement control unit in an express post bag and on its way to me the very next day, no questions asked.

Super great customer service.


----------



## chopdog

Hey blokes, what did you guys do for your pre brew clean?


----------



## kaiserben

chopdog said:


> Hey blokes, what did you guys do for your pre brew clean?


Using it for the first time should be a full cleaning cycle. 

But for every other pre-brew clean after that I just give everything a bit of a rinse (in case any insects had crawled into the equipment). And then maybe 15 seconds of hot tap water through the chiller.


----------



## HBHB

Keep in mind that stainless steel is exactly that - it stains less. It doesn't mean it won't rust if left in contact with moisture and highly alkaline cleaners etc between brews. Complete strip down, clean, rinse and air dry, no different to any other systems.


----------



## chopdog

What about doing back to back brews? Brewing light to dark obviously, and a quick rinse. Is this enough?


----------



## chopdog

Also does anyone use whirlfloc tabs? Or not needed?


----------



## acarey

chopdog said:


> Also does anyone use whirlfloc tabs? Or not needed?


I use brewbrite sometimes. Haven't noticed heaps of difference with or without though...


----------



## acarey

chopdog said:


> What about doing back to back brews? Brewing light to dark obviously, and a quick rinse. Is this enough?


Rinse and a scrub to get any caked on stuff off should be fine. 

Just my (untested) opinion.


----------



## chopdog

Going to have a crack a 3 brews tomorrow, apa, red Ipa and a hoppy brown. Should be fun seeing as I haven't even turned the thing on!!!


----------



## HBHB

chopdog said:


> Also does anyone use whirlfloc tabs? Or not needed?


Always use a kettle fining.


----------



## chopdog

I am 30mins into the mash and my wort on top of the top plate isn't very clear, I have seen pics of wort where you can look in and see the perf plate. I think I may have pushed the plate down a little far. Would this have a effect on the clarity? The overflow cap only sticks out approx 2-3mm when pump is not on.


----------



## slcmorro

It'll be fine mate. Look at the clarity when you're finished. You'll be happily surprised.

Pushing the plate down will compress the grain and perhaps inhibit the recirculation a little, but not by much that it'll be a problem - unless you literally forced it down as hard as you can.


----------



## chopdog

Nar, just pushed it until the plate was covered with liquid. Cheers


----------



## chopdog

I reckon I have a stuck sparge!! It's taking so long, 30 mins to put 5l thru. Any ideas??????


----------



## HBHB

Not much you can do now unless you either wait it out or try to break the grain bed up a bit. What was the grain bill and mash steps?


----------



## chopdog

Simple apa, 5kg pale 
500g wheat 
Mashed in 66 deg, 60mins


----------



## chopdog

I ended up lifting the top plate, loosening up the grain bed. Put the top plate back on and rest of sparge went well. I know I'll prolly have a cloudier wort but I can live with that.


----------



## acarey

Dunno. I've had slow sparges but not that slow. You could put some pressure on the top plate to squeeze some wort out. Probably not best practice though and will compact it further making the problem worse. Typically I do that if i'm almost at pre boil volume and just need a bit more. Not sure what you should do.

Maybe just put the rest of the water in on top and use the small element to bring it to the boil slowly as it drains through at a glacial pace. It heats up at about 1 degree per 3 and half (ish) minutes in my experience.

Good luck.


edit : whoops, didn't see your post above. As you were. Nothing to see here h34r:


----------



## chopdog

Ended up with 26l after sparge. You guys obviously use a refractometre to take your readings? Had to scoop some out with a jug for hydrometer! Not a fan!


----------



## acarey

chopdog said:


> Ended up with 26l after sparge. You guys obviously use a refractometre to take your readings? Had to scoop some out with a jug for hydrometer! Not a fan!


Yeah, get one. It'll change your life. Around $36 for keg king when I got mine I think. You won't regret getting one thats for sure.


----------



## chopdog

Yeah I'll order one tonight. Never really felt the need for one until now


----------



## meathead

chopdog said:


> Simple apa, 5kg pale
> 500g wheat
> Mashed in 66 deg, 60mins





chopdog said:


> Its always wheat
> Chuck in a handful of rice hulls


----------



## chopdog

Just had a HOLY SHIT moment!!!!!! I just mashed in and forgot to flick the switch to mash. Checked temp 10 mins later and it was at75!!!!!!!! Should I just dump it now and cut my loses??? I added 2l of cold water from the fridge but only dropped 3degs


----------



## chopdog

Once I turned the pump on it's dropped to 67, which is my mash temp. Should I extend the mash to 90mins?


----------



## meathead

Brewed a DSGA today
Not as fine a crush as last time and used 2 extra litres of mash water and therefor 2 less litres of sparge water
Sparge ran well, SG 1047

Used the wort chiller for the first time
Ran it for 5 mins to sterilise
Turned the valve back about half way
Wort was still pretty warm, hot day in Melb probably doesn't help
Just wondering what is the best way to use the chiller


----------



## postmaster

I run the tap water through a pre chill set up 1st. Its like a large 16 litre bottle in which I put 8 meters of copper tubing and kept filled with water. Which I chill in in the fridge before I brew.
I use about 25 litres of water to chill 26 litre to approximately 30 deg. I keep the hot water for cleaning. (just need to get the flow ratio right for the wort and water).


----------



## meathead

Seems like a lot of fecking around, must be a better way


----------



## slcmorro

Or you could just recirculate the wort from the chiller back into the GF for 10 mins. That'll do it


----------



## slcmorro

Remember, the cooling rate will drop exponentially the closer the wort temp gets to the tap temp. If you're dragging 28c water out of your tap, you will *NOT* get lower than realistically 30c unless you recirc for a long time, or do something to lower the input water temp.


----------



## meathead

30 would have been fine
It's been 5 hours now in the fridge and it's still 27


----------



## slcmorro

Did you recirculate back into the unit for 10 mins before transferring into the FV really slowly? Should take 20 mins total to get it down to within 5c of tap water temp really, using this method.

What temp would you say your tap water came out at roughly?


----------



## meathead

Tap water 26
Maybe not 10 mins recirc but def 5
Perhaps 10 recirc and even slower fermenter fill next time


----------



## chopdog

Are you running the tap water slow? The wort coming out slow? Or both


----------



## meathead

Tap water normal flow, wort slow
However I've read that 20 mins recirc could be the go


----------



## chopdog

That's pretty much how I ran it, re circ until wort was around 50 deg. Wort into fermenter was still 28-30deg. Used a heap of water tho. Might make a ice slurry in a esky and run the water feed thru that first


----------



## hughbert

anyone else had issues with leaks on the pump output? Had to remove those and stick a tie on a bit tighter.


----------



## postmaster

This is what I use for BeerSmith. Whilst the individual Mash and Sparge volumes do not agree, the total volume does agree when the correct preboil litres are put in.
View attachment Grainfather setup for BeerSmith.zip


----------



## Maheel

hughbert said:


> anyone else had issues with leaks on the pump output? Had to remove those and stick a tie on a bit tighter.


 are they using zip ties instead of clamps ?

is it so no one tightens up a clamp and busts a pump nipple ?


----------



## kaiserben

Last few brews we've had some issues with a leak in our chiller around the hexagonal nut adjacent to the part where the red hose is attached. (and the leaks only happen once the chiller has a tap water running through it). 

Yesterday we took apart the chiller and found the (white) o-ring for that thread/connect was in very bad shape (it was warped, with hardened bits, and also with fraying bits coming off it). 

Without a replacement o-ring we had no option but to put it back together and hope we hadn't made the problem even worse. Once we started using the chiller, the leak was just the same as it had been in the past. We used a towel to stop the leaking water making its way over the edge of the lid and risk it getting back into the wort. 

(We've contacted iMake about this, so I'm hoping they'll send a replacement o-ring and that'll fix that problem). 


Also, yesterday we had another, separate issue. We started pumping the wort, via the chiller, into a fermenter. About 8L into the transfer the blue hose popped off the chiller and water went everywhere (thankfully mostly over the brewers and the floor. We convinced ourselved that none went back into the wort, but in reality it surely must have). We re-attached the blue hose, made sure the clamp was nice and tight, and continued the transfer with hopefully no serious harm done to the beer. 

So check your hose clamps!


----------



## mrsupraboy

I swear ur on the Facebook page lol. Use thread tap over the rubber ur putting on.


----------



## hughbert

Maheel said:


> are they using zip ties instead of clamps ?
> 
> is it so no one tightens up a clamp and busts a pump nipple ?


I have put a hose clamp on now, however you can't put the pump cover back on with a clamp or even a bigger cable tie as it needs a bit of clearance to get up under the black plastic to close. 

better than leaking wort of all over the place tho! This was just testing it out on saturday, i have not made a beer yet.


----------



## azampech

Would a small spring clamp like what you find on radiator overflow hoses work?


----------



## enoch

A very nice ardbir hack at at https://www.facebook.com/pages/Open-Ardbir/606829852720387?fref=nf
Puts my cobbled together version to shame.


----------



## Autopilot80

My recirc pipe bracket tacks have let go . Warranty issues all the way over here in Perth might be problematic.


----------



## carniebrew

hughbert said:


> anyone else had issues with leaks on the pump output? Had to remove those and stick a tie on a bit tighter.


Yep, assembled mine today and ran a cleaning cycle, noticed a steady drip out of the bottom of the pump cover. Took it apart to see it was coming from exactly where you're highlighting.

I put another cable tie above the pump cover, near the top of the pump nipple, this stopped it. Have reported to GF to see what they'll say.


----------



## carniebrew

Couple of questions after putting mine together and running a cleaning cycle (and reading 11 pages of this thread!):

1. The pump filter that pushes into the pump inlet seems a bit loose...I've fiddled around with it but I reckon it'll get knocked out really easily during the boil. Anyone having the same issue?
2. Once I'm through the supplied cleaning liquid, I'll start using home-made PBW (70% perc/30% met). Just curious how much PBW people are using in the 7.5 litres of cleaning water? Tablespoon or so?
3. Is anyone putting the mash pipe back into the boiler during the cleaning cycle, or just cleaning it separately?


----------



## meathead

carniebrew said:


> Couple of questions after putting mine together and running a cleaning cycle (and reading 11 pages of this thread!):
> 
> 1. The pump filter that pushes into the pump inlet seems a bit loose...I've fiddled around with it but I reckon it'll get knocked out really easily during the boil. Anyone having the same issue?
> 
> I've had no probs with this
> 
> 2. Once I'm through the supplied cleaning liquid, I'll start using home-made PBW (70% perc/30% met). Just curious how much PBW people are using in the 7.5 litres of cleaning water? Tablespoon or so?
> 
> I just use Aldi napisan and make sure I rinse well
> 
> 3. Is anyone putting the mash pipe back into the boiler during the cleaning cycle, or just cleaning it separately?


I leave the pipe on and direct it to the walls (of the gf not the kitchen) and clean them


----------



## carniebrew

meathead said:


> I leave the pipe on and direct it to the walls (of the gf not the kitchen) and clean them


Thanks, but I meant the inner basket rather than the recirc pipe.


----------



## meathead

Oh in that case I clean it separately while I'm waiting for boil temp


----------



## carniebrew

Cheers. Also, the bottom plate for the inner basket doesn't have any kind of seal around it. And it's a bit concave...any issues with grain leaking underneath it and into the pump during the mash recirculation?


----------



## meathead

I haven't had any that have bothered me. Perhaps if there is any they drop out after whirlpool or ferment


----------



## carniebrew

Can fellow GF owners tell me how flat their bottom filter plate is? As I mentioned, mine's a bit curved and I'm not sure if that's meant to be, or if it should be flat?


----------



## slcmorro

carniebrew said:


> Cheers. Also, the bottom plate for the inner basket doesn't have any kind of seal around it. And it's a bit concave...any issues with grain leaking underneath it and into the pump during the mash recirculation?


I get a little bit back in my wort from this, yes. Not enough to worry about though.


----------



## slcmorro

carniebrew said:


> Can fellow GF owners tell me how flat their bottom filter plate is? As I mentioned, mine's a bit curved and I'm not sure if that's meant to be, or if it should be flat?


Mines also a little curved.


----------



## meathead

slcmorro said:


> Mines also a little curved.


I've got that problem too..........also with the bottom plate


----------



## meathead

carniebrew said:


> Can fellow GF owners tell me how flat their bottom filter plate is? As I mentioned, mine's a bit curved and I'm not sure if that's meant to be, or if it should be flat?


I would say that due to how thin it is and the amount of holes it will flex a bit
However it's fair to say that the mob that makes them are looking after early adopters very well (as in chiller issues) and if the bottom plate causes issues they would upgrade and replace foc


----------



## rick1111082

My bottom plate is like that as well i havent had any dramas


----------



## hughbert

yeah bottom plate a bit wonky however once it gets some grain on it it sits flat. just a very small amount of grain getting out but was not enough to worry about really.


----------



## HBHB

chopdog said:


> Just had a HOLY SHIT moment!!!!!! I just mashed in and forgot to flick the switch to mash. Checked temp 10 mins later and it was at75!!!!!!!! Should I just dump it now and cut my loses??? I added 2l of cold water from the fridge but only dropped 3degs


You've bypassed the controller by putting the top switch in the middle position. Even on high with the bottom switch it will only overshoot by 1-2 degrees and self correct with recirculation.



postmaster said:


> I run the tap water through a pre chill set up 1st. Its like a large 16 litre bottle in which I put 8 meters of copper tubing and kept filled with water. Which I chill in in the fridge before I brew.
> I use about 25 litres of water to chill 26 litre to approximately 30 deg. I keep the hot water for cleaning. (just need to get the flow ratio right for the wort and water).


3L per minute is about as fast as it needs to run, but in such a small vessel, it won't drop it much. Run tap water and recirculate the wort for 10 minutes first then go with cooler water or a bucket full of ice (freeze the chiller into a 20L bucket)....watch it drop then.



carniebrew said:


> Couple of questions after putting mine together and running a cleaning cycle (and reading 11 pages of this thread!):
> 
> 1. The pump filter that pushes into the pump inlet seems a bit loose...I've fiddled around with it but I reckon it'll get knocked out really easily during the boil. Anyone having the same issue?
> 2. Once I'm through the supplied cleaning liquid, I'll start using home-made PBW (70% perc/30% met). Just curious how much PBW people are using in the 7.5 litres of cleaning water? Tablespoon or so?
> 3. Is anyone putting the mash pipe back into the boiler during the cleaning cycle, or just cleaning it separately?


1. Pump filter should be firm, but not tight. while it's empty, try to knock it out and you'll see it takes a bit or force. You'll be going nuts to knock it out in a whirlpool under normal action. you don't have to create a black hole for a whirlpool to form.
2. a lumpy tablespoon in hot water is enough
3. initially, then I give it a clean outside, making the most of the cleaning solution.



carniebrew said:


> Cheers. Also, the bottom plate for the inner basket doesn't have any kind of seal around it. And it's a bit concave...any issues with grain leaking underneath it and into the pump during the mash recirculation?


The weight of the grain will sort it out. It's normal for cut sections of perforated plate to buckle.....even a piece I have at home that was over $250 m is bent like a politician.


----------



## carniebrew

HBHB said:


> You've bypassed the controller by putting the top switch in the middle position. Even on high with the bottom switch it will only overshoot by 1-2 degrees and self correct with recirculation.


Thanks for the reply.

I think chopdog might have been saying he had the top switch set to "boil" instead of "mash"? Which ignores the temp setting and just heads for 100C.

I am curious on that switch...the "Work" light on the controller stays lit even when the switch is in the middle position (i.e. not mash or boil)...but I'm assuming the element is off, with the switch in that position, right? And that would be regardless of the bottom switch being on mash or normal.


----------



## meathead

(freeze the chiller into a 20L bucket)....watch it drop then.

What does this mean?


----------



## HBHB

20L bucket, drop chiller into it, fill with water and a handful of salt, then drop into a freezer.


----------



## carniebrew

I spoke to the GF crew about the bottom plate just to confirm they're meant to be as flat as possible...as suspected they are, so I've done some creative bending and it's a much better fit now.


----------



## meathead

HBHB said:


> 20L bucket, drop chiller into it, fill with water and a handful of salt, then drop into a freezer.


So you then have a massive chunk of ice with a chiller in it and hoses coming out sitting on top of the GF?
Assuming you can get it out of the bucket


----------



## HBHB

meathead said:


> So you then have a massive chunk of ice with a chiller in it and hoses coming out sitting on top of the GF?
> Assuming you can get it out of the bucket


no it's used with a short copper pre-chiller coil, not the GF coil. It simply super chills the water going to the GF chiller.


----------



## Trevandjo

HBHB said:


> no it's used with a short copper pre-chiller coil, not the GF coil. It simply super chills the water going to the GF chiller.


What temp can you get down to this way Martin?


----------



## HBHB

Pretty low during winter when the temp in my tank is down. I think it went as low as 6-8 degrees back in October. Getting it down to 16-18 is no issue during summer when our town potable supply comes out of the tap at 32.


----------



## kaiserben

Inspired by reading this thread we decided to try a pre-chiller today.

(I'll preface this by pointing out that we've previously just been using the GF chiller, recircing back into GF until the temp said ~40C, then running out through chiller into fermenter, and then pitching yeast without knowing the temperature of the wort in the fermenter. We just sorta hoped it was about right). 

Today we set up a spare home-made copper chiller in an esky with a bag of service station ice and some water to create a slurry (let it sit for 15 mins). We recirced our wort through chiller back into GF until the temp was 42C. Then connected up the pre-chiller and ran it back into the GF to see if the temp would keep dropping. But it seemed to drop only about as fast as it has in the past at these temps using tap water. We were hoping for something a bit more dramatic with the temp drop and were a bit perplexed as to why it wasn't working better than it was. Maybe we need to actually freeze the pre-chiller next time (as suggested by HBHB). 

Anyway, when GF unit temp was reading as 36C we started to pump out to fermenter. Once finished the temp reading on a stick on thermometer on our fermenter was ~22C. 

We were happy enough with 22C as our outcome, but will need to test temp into fermenter without the pre-chiller to be sure it's making a big enough difference.


----------



## dicko

Why not just pump the chilled water through the chiller.
IMO the loss is in the fact that you are trying to chill the water with another chiller...or have I misunderstood your procedures?

With my set up I have 40 litres of Iced water in an old 60 litre fermenter and I can chill a beer from around 30 deg to around 10 deg during summer with that 40 litres of ice slurry.


----------



## kaiserben

The only pump I've got is the wort pump attached the the Grainfather. So I for the counter flow chiller itself, I haven't got enough pressure to get some chilled water through it.


----------



## dicko

OK, I understand now, I have a submersible pump that I put in the chilled water, but you want to use the water pressure from the tap supply to circulate colder water.


----------



## HBHB

Sounds like your tap water is as warm as it is up here. Hard to get it down below about 36 here in summer without the pre-chiller and ice. Adding salt to the water will also drop the temp a bit more.

Could be that you were running the water a little fast. No point in running it through the gf chiller much more than about 3 LPM. At that rate of flow it should chill a bit more - also bring the pre-chilled water into the gf Chiller through a shorter hose so it's not warming up in high ambient temps again.


----------



## mrsupraboy

Cube people cube. So much effort in trying to chill it down straight away. Home brew is easy ☺


----------



## Paulbroad

I thought I’d share an interesting experience I had this morning, when the unit stopped working. 

In the interests of getting started on the brew day early, I set the GF up with a timer on the power point, so that once I had the kids up and fed this morning my mash water would already be at strike temperature. When I went downstairs, the display was still showing 23 degrees.

I stuffed around with it for twenty minutes or so, trying to get it to work, but still no heat in the unit, even when I switched to boils and switched the button to alternate between the two elements. Needless to say i was starting to get a bit worried that on my third brew day with the GF something was broken.

A quick Google search revealed that there is a re-set switch on the bottom of the unit. I emptied the water out, hit the switch, and it started working immediately. 

The unit performed perfectly throughout the brew, so no lingering effects, but thought it was something worth sharing.


----------



## HBHB

Paulbroad said:


> I thought I’d share an interesting experience I had this morning, when the unit stopped working.
> 
> In the interests of getting started on the brew day early, I set the GF up with a timer on the power point, so that once I had the kids up and fed this morning my mash water would already be at strike temperature. When I went downstairs, the display was still showing 23 degrees.
> 
> I stuffed around with it for twenty minutes or so, trying to get it to work, but still no heat in the unit, even when I switched to boils and switched the button to alternate between the two elements. Needless to say i was starting to get a bit worried that on my third brew day with the GF something was broken.
> 
> A quick Google search revealed that there is a re-set switch on the bottom of the unit. I emptied the water out, hit the switch, and it started working immediately.
> 
> The unit performed perfectly throughout the brew, so no lingering effects, but thought it was something worth sharing.


there's 2 levels of protection on them, first is the reset switch for thermal protection. (as you've found, it's the little push button in the middle of the base) the second is a fusible link which is hard wired in underneath.


----------



## carniebrew

Paulbroad said:


> I thought I’d share an interesting experience I had this morning, when the unit stopped working.
> 
> In the interests of getting started on the brew day early, I set the GF up with a timer on the power point, so that once I had the kids up and fed this morning my mash water would already be at strike temperature. When I went downstairs, the display was still showing 23 degrees.
> 
> I stuffed around with it for twenty minutes or so, trying to get it to work, but still no heat in the unit, even when I switched to boils and switched the button to alternate between the two elements. Needless to say i was starting to get a bit worried that on my third brew day with the GF something was broken.
> 
> A quick Google search revealed that there is a re-set switch on the bottom of the unit. I emptied the water out, hit the switch, and it started working immediately.
> 
> The unit performed perfectly throughout the brew, so no lingering effects, but thought it was something worth sharing.


Do you think it was the timer that might have caused the switch to trip?


----------



## Paulbroad

carniebrew said:


> Do you think it was the timer that might have caused the switch to trip?


I thought that, but to be honest, I'm not sure. I've used the timer on other appliances without issue, so I would say not. 

That said, the power point that I'm using is an old one, so that may be the better guess.


----------



## chopdog

Has anyone else had this happen? I noticed it when I first purchased but didn't think it would be a issue. I have now noticed grain and crap getting caught


----------



## Darrens

Mate, that is part of the packaging .... Throw it away and now you wont have a problem.
Regards Darren.


----------



## chopdog

Hahaha, really? Mine like it is glued in


----------



## slcmorro

That's very strange. Looks like you've mounted the filter and thermowell over it and secured it in.


----------



## carniebrew

Nah I think it's sitting just above the top of both of those. Did you boil with that thing in...and it survived??

I must admit I had to think twice when assembling my unit about whether it was something important or not, as the manual and videos didn't refer to it at all. I'm guessing the GF guys might have had some issues with the inner pipe moving around during shipping and that ring is a late addition to things.


----------



## chopdog

I've brewed 5 times and it still surviving. I'll pull it out after this one!!


----------



## slcmorro

So I have some issues... attached are some photos from my Boulders and Tinder S&W Pacific Ale clone. Recipe calls for 4.7kg of grain. 

I think my main problem is, with just 4.7kgs the top perforated plate sits too low. With bigger batches however it still sits relatively low. I mashed in with 18L, which could have been too much however I wouldn't have thought it'd still cause many problems. Not once during the recirc could I see the plate or even the top piece which sits on the overflow pipe however.

As you can see, I ended up with a lot of grain particles sitting on top of the plate after my 60 min mash, and a whole load in the wort which is currently boiling away now. The seal around the perforated plate is intact, and the bottom perforated plate sits almost flush (slight warp but the grain weight would sort that out) so other than grain escaping back through the overflow hole in the plate I'm at a loss to explain it. I've collected 250ml of wort during the start of the boil to show how much is in there.

I'll still ferment this brew and hopefully it doesn't turn out astringent as buggery.

Ideas?


----------



## acarey

slcmorro said:


> So I have some issues... attached are some photos from my Boulders and Tinder S&W Pacific Ale clone. Recipe calls for 4.7kg of grain.
> 
> I think my main problem is, with just 4.7kgs the top perforated plate sits too low. With bigger batches however it still sits relatively low. I mashed in with 18L, which could have been too much however I wouldn't have thought it'd still cause many problems. Not once during the recirc could I see the plate or even the top piece which sits on the overflow pipe however.
> 
> As you can see, I ended up with a lot of grain particles sitting on top of the plate after my 60 min mash, and a whole load in the wort which is currently boiling away now. The seal around the perforated plate is intact, and the bottom perforated plate sits almost flush (slight warp but the grain weight would sort that out) so other than grain escaping back through the overflow hole in the plate I'm at a loss to explain it. I've collected 250ml of wort during the start of the boil to show how much is in there.
> 
> I'll still ferment this brew and hopefully it doesn't turn out astringent as buggery.
> 
> Ideas?


I regularly do brews of that size without issue. Are you pushing the top plate all the way down and compress mash? If so, I wouldn't (and don't). I just push it down until it touches the top of the mash (ie, don't submerge it) and away I go. I've never had this problem.

2c

Cheers


----------



## slcmorro

I didn't push it all the way down to the grainbed, however I did submerge it. The problem I speculate exists when the grain can come back up through the hole in the perforated plate. Technically though, I wouldn't think any grain particles could make it back into the wort being that it all drains back through the mash tun and the bottom perforated plate anyways - but obviously something is causing it.


----------



## acarey

slcmorro said:


> I didn't push it all the way down to the grainbed, however I did submerge it. The problem I speculate exists when the grain can come back up through the hole in the perforated plate. Technically though, I wouldn't think any grain particles could make it back into the wort being that it all drains back through the mash tun and the bottom perforated plate anyways - but obviously something is causing it.


Dunno then. I get a small amount of floaties during the mash, but such a small amount I could probably count them.

They could be coming from the bottom by just leaking out underneath somehow, or from the top and draining down the centre pipe. I'd guess the latter because of the gap you have between the whole in the top plate and the top of the pipe thingy that's supposed to sit flush (but isn't) letting more grain get on top.

Just try to have it sit gently on top of the mash without submerging and see if that's high enough to plug the gap. It will become submerged as it resercs (depending on how quickly wort drains through the grain bed) anyway but it wont be so low as to create that gap.

edit. Just actually read your last post and realised I said the same thing with way more words....


----------



## slcmorro

I recently adjusted the crush of my mill due to my poorer efficiency in two previous brews (65-70%) and this is the first brew since. Could have something to do with it, but it's still coarser than my previous BIAB settings. Maybe 20% flour. Will try the positioning of the top plate as you suggested next time.


----------



## carniebrew

My first GF brew was an IPA with a 6.3kg grain bill, and despite the fact my overflow widget was firmly blocking the hole in the top plate, I got a fair bit of grain through into my wort. I think it was my warped bottom plate causing the issue. I ended up seiving out the grain before starting my boil, which was probably overkill but it felt safer.

For my 2nd brew (after I flattened out the bottom plate) I did a low gravity Berliner Weisse with a puny 3.4kg grain bill, and the top plate didn't reach the grain bed, so the overflow widget wasn't blocking the hole. I expected to have a lot of grain coming through that hole, but in the end I had a lot less than the first brew, no more than a tablespoon full or so sitting on the top plate post-mash. I did follow GF's instructions though on small grain bills, where I added more mash water so that it came to just over the top plate.


----------



## HBHB

slcmorro said:


> I recently adjusted the crush of my mill due to my poorer efficiency in two previous brews (65-70%) and this is the first brew since. Could have something to do with it, but it's still coarser than my previous BIAB settings. Maybe 20% flour. Will try the positioning of the top plate as you suggested next time.


Is this how you have the wort overflow pipe set during the mash?




If so, there's most of the problem. You need to place the top plate at the top of the mash, then drop the height so the overflow leveller is sitting snugly inside the top plate opening. That will stop undermining the grain bed as shown in the other pic....it's in the instructions Clayton.

The other thing that helps is to put a longer hose length on the wort return arm 9.5mm silicone hose at around 45cm length fixes the issue with small grain bills so the hose isn't pointing straight down at the grain bed causing further undermining. In testing we managed to get a pissy 2.1% weak lager to work flawlessly before it was added to the compost heap h34r: . Took us a while to replicate that one, but that was the simple fix.

Hope this helps

Martin


----------



## kaiserben

slcmorro said:


> I didn't push it all the way down to the grainbed, however I did submerge it. The problem I speculate exists when the grain can come back up through the hole in the perforated plate. Technically though, I wouldn't think any grain particles could make it back into the wort being that it all drains back through the mash tun and the bottom perforated plate anyways - but obviously something is causing it.


The overflow inlet part should fit snugly into that hole in the top plate, so that nothing floats/escapes through the hole. 

I've noticed occasionally that some grains can still escape from somewhere though (but nowhere near the amount in your photos).


----------



## HBHB

Also, I should add.....

That would explain the poor efficiency because the returning wort will create a wall effect straight down the side of the central overflow pipe, bypassing the actual grain bed. Some will go through the grain, but not nearly enough to get reasonable efficiency.

it should look like this:


----------



## carniebrew

But Martin, what do you reckon you should do when your grain bill is so small that the top plate doesn't go down far enough to reach the top of the grain bed, e.g. what happened with my 3.4kg grain bill Berliner? My mash looked like your photo above, where the return widget wasn't sitting inside the top plate hole.

For your 2% lager, what was the grain bill, and did the top plate reach your grain bed?

Thinking back now, it's possible I didn't try and push my return widget all the way down into the top plate for the berliner...I wasn't sure if the top part of the return pipe was all the way down, but I was getting resistance, and didn't want to force it.


----------



## slcmorro

I just cubed this batch, and it worked out to 81% efficiency. The sample wort didn't taste astringent but I'm not sure if that'll come out before fermentation anyways.

My question is, how does one drop the height of the overall plate/overflow pipe? It won't go down any further than what I have it, even if I remove the extender...?


----------



## HBHB

slcmorro said:


> I just cubed this batch, and it worked out to 81% efficiency. The sample wort didn't taste astringent but I'm not sure if that'll come out before fermentation anyways.
> 
> My question is, how does one drop the height of the overall plate/overflow pipe? It won't go down any further than what I have it, even if I remove the extender...?


I just slid it down and then adjusted the water up to about 19L, where the grain bill was only 2.05kg from memory, I think it was about 19 litres of water total to reach the top plate. with the top plate in place, it sat there the whole time suspended. I believe Imker and Peter are working on an alternative fitting for small grain bills. Whether that be a dead space filler basket or just a shorter pipe I'm not sure.


----------



## slcmorro

So you'd need to mash in at whatever temp with say 15L, and then add the same temperature water to the volume which gets the plate to sit level with the lowest height of the overflow tube? I would have assumed that the top plate would slide down during the mash anyway, therefore exposing that gap once the overflow piece stays on the pipe and the plate drops lower?


----------



## slcmorro

What I *could* do, is cut the bottom overflow pipe say 50mm shorter - I'll never do huge grain bills (I say that now of course) requiring more than 3/4 of the volume of the mash tun anyway.

An ideal solution, would be to provide the same length pipe overall, but increase the size of the extender and make the solid piece attached to the bottom plate quite small, say 100mm total.


----------



## acarey

slcmorro said:


> What I *could* do, is cut the bottom overflow pipe say 50mm shorter - I'll never do huge grain bills (I say that now of course) requiring more than 3/4 of the volume of the mash tun anyway.
> 
> An ideal solution, would be to provide the same length pipe overall, but increase the size of the extender and make the solid piece attached to the bottom plate quite small, say 100mm total.


 but you'll have the same issue. You wont be able to telescopically push a longer tube down. The bottom part needs to be at least as long as the top part otherwise theres nowhere for it to go. The minimum size will always be the length of the larger pipe.

For gods sake don't cut it I reckon. Maybe your crush is too fine or something. 4.7 kg is a fairly standard grain bill. You can get it working without cutting stuff.


----------



## carniebrew

I agree, don't cut it...I've done a 3.4kg grain bill with very little grain leakage. My crush for that brew would have been a 1.1mm mill gap with a MashMaster mini mill.


----------



## postmaster

Don't use the extension pipe. You should get about 12 litres in the basket plus 3.5 litres under the basket. Not sure what volume of grain you could use as it would also take up some space.
Happy Brewing


----------



## carniebrew

I want to do a small volume Black IPA soon, might try that without the extension pipe on...will see what Beersmith says.


----------



## slcmorro

The extension pipe doesn't actually extend the height at all if you've got a smaller grain bill, being that it sits flush with the bottom pipe. Fair point about not cutting it. I might have milled too fine, being that it's the most recent change I've made. Will make it a little coarser. Thanks all for your comments and help


----------



## postmaster

You will find that the Overflow Inlet that sits on the top pipe will slid right down the bottom pipe. Of course you wont get any flow down the pipe or overflow inlet, but If you can control your flow it may not be a problem.
Just a thought.  If the overflow inlet put too much pressure on the plate and grain, put a stainless steel clamp on the bottom pipe.


----------



## carniebrew

How would the overflow inlet widget slide down the bottom pipe if the top plate is in place?


----------



## slcmorro

I was thinking the same thing.


----------



## postmaster

Put grain in. Slide top plate down on bottom pipe till it touches grain and then slide the overflow outlet down the pipe onto the top plate. (This is what you would normally do on the top pipe)
Hope that make sense.


----------



## slcmorro

I think you're misintepreting the problem. The problem is that even without the extender pipe extended so to speak, the plate rests on top of the grain still 5cm below the top of the pipe. So essentially, the little widget thing that sits on the pipe and is meant to 'block' the central hole sits up too high and the hole is exposed during the recirc.

Go back and have a look at the first picture in post #252 for reference if that's hard to follow.


----------



## carniebrew

postmaster said:


> Put grain in. Slide top plate down on bottom pipe till it touches grain and then slide the overflow outlet down the pipe onto the top plate. (This is what you would normally do on the top pipe)
> Hope that make sense.


Ah I get it, you're saying you can slide the widget all the way down the bottom pipe so that it sites in the hole in the top plate. Cheers.


----------



## postmaster

A Picture says a thousand words. 




This photo a bit small see the following post #278


----------



## postmaster

This will give you a better view than the other photo.
Cheers


----------



## slcmorro

postmaster said:


> This will give you a better view than the other photo.
> Cheers
> 
> 
> 
> 20150414_173239.jpg


The man is a genius. How simple... if not using the extender pipe, take the bloody thing off and the widget slides right down. Hats off to you!


----------



## postmaster

Thanks mate. Just trying to help out fellow brewers. Mind you I haven't tried it. Let me know how it goes.
Might even brew a small brown ale which I have done in BIAB.
I was also thinking of taking out the extender pipe and doing a BIAB with a grain bag in the basket as you are still recirculating the wort and the bag is off the bottom.
The problem I see is that if the wort does not drain through the grain you haven't got the overflow pipe to keep the flow moving.

Hey mate I was Born in Creswick and my old stomping ground was "Ballarat" much warmer here in Echuca.
Cheers


----------



## carniebrew

Quick one guys....does the "off" position on your Mash/Boil switch actually turn the element off? I've noticed that when I switch it to off, it does the exact same thing as if it was set to "mash", i.e. it heats the liquid inside to the temp set on the controller (or allows it to cool to that temp before keeping it there). This doesn't seem right to me. Basically, I can't have the pump on and the element switched off, unless I manually set the temp to a low enough figure that it'll never kick in.

Have I got a dodgy one or are they all doing this?


----------



## Trevandjo

Mine definitely turns off but you're not the first person I've heard with this problem. I set my temp down now at flameout just incase.


----------



## kaiserben

Trevandjo said:


> Mine definitely turns off but you're not the first person I've heard with this problem. I set my temp down now at flameout just incase.


Same here.


----------



## HBHB

carniebrew said:


> Quick one guys....does the "off" position on your Mash/Boil switch actually turn the element off? I've noticed that when I switch it to off, it does the exact same thing as if it was set to "mash", i.e. it heats the liquid inside to the temp set on the controller (or allows it to cool to that temp before keeping it there). This doesn't seem right to me. Basically, I can't have the pump on and the element switched off, unless I manually set the temp to a low enough figure that it'll never kick in.
> 
> Have I got a dodgy one or are they all doing this?


Carniebrew, your pump should be able to be run continuously when the control unit is powered off. ie no temp displaying. That will also (or should) turn off power to all elements as well. If that isn't the case, then make contact with your retailer or imake direct.


----------



## carniebrew

Cheers. Just to check then, should switching the controller to off (via the mash/boil switch) turn off the display? Mine doesn't. The only way to kill the display is to turn power off at the wall switch.


----------



## Trevandjo

I think there is some confusion from when you mentioned about the pump earlier. The "I O II" switch will only turn off the elements when in the "O" position. "II" will bypass the controller.


----------



## carniebrew

Ok, to be clear, the right hand switch has_ I, O and II_. _I_ heats to the temp displayed on the controller, _II _ignores that temp and takes it to boil. _O_ should turn the heat off altogether, but doesn't for me. And I'm wondering if _O _should switch of the temp display altogether.

This pic is with the switch set to Off, and the target temp at 15C:




This pic is with the switch set to Off, and the target temp at 65C:



As you can see the light that indicates the heating element is on is lit up in that second pic, despite the _IOII _switch being set to _O_.

I've emailed imake.


----------



## bradsbrew

The element switch will only turn of the elements, the display will still be on. The little red light at top left will remain on as the controller is telling the elements to turn on because the temp is lower than the set mash temp. However the elements wont turn on because you have bypassed and turned them off.

Hope that makes sense


----------



## carniebrew

Ok, definitely dodgy then, 'coz mine's heating up even with the switch set to off. Thanks.

Although I'm a bit confused by what HBHB is saying above now. How do you get to a point where the control unit is powered off (no temp displaying), but the pump will still run? The only way I could think to do that would be to pull the heating element's power plug out of the control box.


----------



## carniebrew

Actually thinking a bit more about that Brad...are you sure the STC-200 is that _smart_? The "work" light comes on when the unit detects the temp has dropped below the target temp on the controller. Surely that means it's passing power to the heating element. Turning the _IOII_ switch to O should turn the controller off completely in my mind...as in the display should go blank, but the pump would continue to work...which sounds like what HBHB is saying.

Are you sure you haven't got the same problem as me, where even with the switch turned to Off, the element is getting turned on? It took me a while to notice what was going on.


----------



## bradsbrew

carniebrew said:


> Actually thinking a bit more about that Brad...are you sure the STC-200 is that _smart_? The "work" light comes on when the unit detects the temp has dropped below the target temp on the controller. Surely that means it's passing power to the heating element. Turning the _IOII_ switch to O should turn the controller off completely in my mind...as in the display should go blank, but the pump would continue to work...which sounds like what HBHB is saying.
> 
> Are you sure you haven't got the same problem as me, where even with the switch turned to Off, the element is getting turned on? It took me a while to notice what was going on.


It is not the stc 200 being smart. It is still sending power to the elements however the element has been switched off in between the stc and the element. As I understand it, that is why there is two plugs coming from the control box.
Nah mine isn't one of the ones with the dodgy switch. Last brewday/night I had a few beers and forgot to turn the GF off at the wall, once I had chiiled. Came out the next morning and the control display was reading ambient temp. This was with element swith set to 0.

Cheers


----------



## bradsbrew

Basically, as soon as you plug the main cord into the wall and turn it on you have power going to the control unit. You then have two switches, one for pump and the other for elements.


----------



## HBHB

carniebrew said:


> Cheers. Just to check then, should switching the controller to off (via the mash/boil switch) turn off the display? Mine doesn't. The only way to kill the display is to turn power off at the wall switch.


No, it just turns off control I think. Correct, to turn off all functions of elements and controller, power the unit to off and the pump can still run.


----------



## Hippy

carniebrew said:


> Actually thinking a bit more about that Brad...are you sure the STC-200 is that _smart_? The "work" light comes on when the unit detects the temp has dropped below the target temp on the controller. Surely that means it's passing power to the heating element. Turning the _IOII_ switch to O should turn the controller off completely in my mind...as in the display should go blank, but the pump would continue to work...which sounds like what HBHB is saying.
> 
> Are you sure you haven't got the same problem as me, where even with the switch turned to Off, the element is getting turned on? It took me a while to notice what was going on.


----------



## Hippy

To turn the controller off you press and hold the red button. This will solve your problem.


----------



## tugger

My solution to the low grain and other problems associated with getting grains in the boil is to raise the recirculation tube to its maximum height then back it off a tiny bit, The wort has never reached the height of the maximum extension of the recirculation tube with 20l of water.
If it can't go down the recurc tube it won't get into the boil pot.


----------



## carniebrew

Hippy said:


> To turn the controller off you press and hold the red button. This will solve your problem.


Ah, the red button...I knew I was missing something, thanks. I've never used that red button before, seemed a bit redundant. Which I suppose it is if your element switch actually works?


----------



## jc64

I'm thinking off using my immersion chiller with the unit. Any issues with it resting on the base while the element is on (last ten minutes of boil)? I'll adjust a coil or two so it doesn't rest on the hop filter housing.


----------



## acarey

I pushed the limits of the system the other night. Did a Dogfishead 90 minute IPA clone with a grainbill of 9.18 kg.

Apart from misjudging the strike and sparge water volumes, knocking the top of the return tube off into the mash, having to do an extended boil, making a mess of the kitchen, scorching the wort to the to element and springing a leak in the chiller, it was a complete and total success. Textbook brewing.

RE the scorching, it was a royal motha flippa to clean carbon from the bottom of the urn, and now my wort has an unwanted toasty (burnt) flavour. Has anyone else had issues with scorching with he grainfather?

I'm assuming its because the water to grain ratio was pretty low, but I don't know. Its never happened with more standard grain bills. Thoughts?


----------



## carniebrew

jc64 said:


> I'm thinking off using my immersion chiller with the unit. Any issues with it resting on the base while the element is on (last ten minutes of boil)? I'll adjust a coil or two so it doesn't rest on the hop filter housing.


Curious as to why you'd want to use that instead of the counter-flow we got with the GF. I find the latter a hell of a lot more efficient than my old immersion copper chiller...mind you it was a cheapie.


----------



## jc64

My immersion chiller is huge, chills fantastic when the wort is whirlpooled. I just want to do a few comparisons between the CFC and the IC.


----------



## Hippy

acarey said:


> I pushed the limits of the system the other night. Did a Dogfishead 90 minute IPA clone with a grainbill of 9.18 kg.
> 
> Apart from misjudging the strike and sparge water volumes, knocking the top of the return tube off into the mash, having to do an extended boil, making a mess of the kitchen, scorching the wort to the to element and springing a leak in the chiller, it was a complete and total success. Textbook brewing.
> 
> RE the scorching, it was a royal motha flippa to clean carbon from the bottom of the urn, and now my wort has an unwanted toasty (burnt) flavour. Has anyone else had issues with scorching with he grainfather?
> 
> I'm assuming its because the water to grain ratio was pretty low, but I don't know. Its never happened with more standard grain bills. Thoughts?


----------



## HBHB

acarey said:


> I pushed the limits of the system the other night. Did a Dogfishead 90 minute IPA clone with a grainbill of 9.18 kg.
> 
> Apart from misjudging the strike and sparge water volumes, knocking the top of the return tube off into the mash, having to do an extended boil, making a mess of the kitchen, scorching the wort to the to element and springing a leak in the chiller, it was a complete and total success. Textbook brewing.
> 
> RE the scorching, it was a royal motha flippa to clean carbon from the bottom of the urn, and now my wort has an unwanted toasty (burnt) flavour. Has anyone else had issues with scorching with he grainfather?
> 
> I'm assuming its because the water to grain ratio was pretty low, but I don't know. Its never happened with more standard grain bills. Thoughts?


Ouch.

If you suspect there's a bit of crap that might get squeezed through the bottom plate, then it's best to give the bottom of the pot a bit of a scrape off to make sure there's no flour caked onto it. If it's that bad, I would have expected the thermal protection to kick in and cut the power to the element off. I haven't had any major problems and no burned/scorched tastes from any of the brews. Did have a small bit of crap on the element plate that was a bit dark from one brew.....I think it a was stupidly large Black IIPA with a fair bit of Rye in it from memory. I've just recently done a 90 minute IPA and a Pliny the Elder clone through it with no problems. I did cut the volume back a couple of litres to fit in the grain bill though.

A brew day like that would be enough to drive you to drink.


----------



## acarey

HBHB said:


> Ouch.
> 
> If you suspect there's a bit of crap that might get squeezed through the bottom plate, then it's best to give the bottom of the pot a bit of a scrape off to make sure there's no flour caked onto it. If it's that bad, I would have expected the thermal protection to kick in and cut the power to the element off. I haven't had any major problems and no burned/scorched tastes from any of the brews. Did have a small bit of crap on the element plate that was a bit dark from one brew.....I think it a was stupidly large Black IIPA with a fair bit of Rye in it from memory. I've just recently done a 90 minute IPA and a Pliny the Elder clone through it with no problems. I did cut the volume back a couple of litres to fit in the grain bill though.
> 
> A brew day like that would be enough to drive you to drink.


The more I think about it, the more I think it might have just been due to loads of protein. The scorching/carbon was caked on the bottom of the urn in the middle centre circle. In other smaller brews I've done, there is always a buildup of protieny stuff there. Its just never burnt before. I did get a couple of big chunks of material forming freely in the boil. The biggest of which was about as big as the top joint of my thumb.

It was 92% pilsner malt. I dont know it that has more protein than pale malts, or maybe just because the grain bill was big, or maybe because I turn the big element on to ramp between steps or maybe, just maybe, I have no effing idea what I'm talking about 

edit: more info on chunks


----------



## carniebrew

What are you guys finding 'normal' in terms of grain getting through? Here's a couple of pics from my most recent brew. It was a small batch, so I had a little higher water to grain ratio than I usually would have.





One side of the malt pipe. The other side didn't have much at all on it.



I'm wondering if I'm milling too fine. I'm using 1.1mm on a Mashmaster MiniMill.


----------



## kaiserben

^^^^ only once have I had that many grains end up above my top plate. Usually it's just a smattering of grains. 

As long as they're not all going down the the recirc pipe it shouldn't matter, right?


----------



## carniebrew

Yep, that's what I figured. There wasn't much grain in the wort at all, so I wasn't too worried. Might move the mill out to 1.2mm next time and see if it makes a difference.


----------



## nads

Not sure whether I'm in the right spot for this question but I would appreciate some advice re my recent Grainfather aquisition. I'm new to all grain brewing and had initially decided to step up from kit brewing to BIAB but stumbled across the Grainfather and decided this was it. My question is if the recipe calls for Protein rest mash in, then Saccarine rest, then Glyco protein rest, does the wort have to recirculate during all these steps or should this only start when the Saccharine rest starts.


----------



## carniebrew

Hey nads, welcome aboard. You should be re-circing for all steps...it'll give you consistent temps and faster ramp-ups.


----------



## MastersBrewery

To clarify the above; systems such as this recirc for the entire mash start to end of mash out, same for herms/rims/braumiester. The big advantage is the clarity of the wort at boil.
cheers

MB

Ed typo


----------



## nads

I have another question re the use of hop socks. I used one in my first Grainfather brew and still ended up with a lot of loose hop matter on the filter which reduced the flow substantially when pumping the wort to the FV. Would it be a help to use a stocking inside the hop sock to reduce this as it is a much finer weave than the hop sock. When I was kit brewing someone sugested using a stocking for dry hopping which seemed to work.


----------



## TIGGA351

nads said:


> I have another question re the use of hop socks. I used one in my first Grainfather brew and still ended up with a lot of loose hop matter on the filter which reduced the flow substantially when pumping the wort to the FV. Would it be a help to use a stocking inside the hop sock to reduce this as it is a much finer weave than the hop sock. When I was kit brewing someone sugested using a stocking for dry hopping which seemed to work.


I use a brew in the bag bag to line the space between the inside of the boiler and the grain basket to reduce the amount of sediment getting through . If you did this and used a hop sock , then you should capture just about all of it . I know its not always possible , but I use whole hop flowers where I can instead of pellets .... makes a huge difference !!!


----------



## TIGGA351

carniebrew said:


> Yep, that's what I figured. There wasn't much grain in the wort at all, so I wasn't too worried. Might move the mill out to 1.2mm next time and see if it makes a difference.


Just be careful with your grain crush size mate ... I found once I went over 1mm , my efficiency went south big time and I think it was due to the grain not being cracked enough ....more bruised than cracked you might say . I went back to 1mm and have never had an issue since .


----------



## bradsbrew

TIGGA351 said:


> Just be careful with your grain crush size mate ... I found once I went over 1mm , my efficiency went south big time and I think it was due to the grain not being cracked enough ....more bruised than cracked you might say . I went back to 1mm and have never had an issue since .


Is that 1mm with a mashmaster minimill and whats your sparge like?

Cheers


----------



## TIGGA351

bradsbrew said:


> Is that 1mm with a mashmaster minimill and whats your sparge like?
> 
> Cheers


The type of mill doesn't matter , its the gap between the rollers which is the critical part ... in my case 1mm . Sparging works well , but I often add rice hulls to the grain bill when the recipe permits and this aids a better sparge also .... it helps space out the grain and allow a better flow through of the water .


----------



## bradsbrew

TIGGA351 said:


> The type of mill doesn't matter , its the gap between the rollers which is the critical part ... in my case 1mm . Sparging works well , but I often add rice hulls to the grain bill when the recipe permits and this aids a better sparge also .... it helps space out the grain and allow a better flow through of the water .


Believe it or not the type of mill does matter as it also relates to the length and diameter of the rollers. I will be trying some rice hulls next brew.


----------



## carniebrew

I agree with Brad, there's lots of talk out there recently about the difference in mills...unfortunately the gap isn't all that matters. We've even found on our club mill that the speed you mill at makes a noticeable difference to the end result.

I'm getting around 81% efficiency on the 1.1mm setting on my mashmaster minimill, after getting 65% using the same (and smaller) setting when I was doing BIAB. Brewers in our club with Braumeisters have used this mill at 1.2mm with good success, so I'll try that out for the GF next brew and report back.

Oh and nads, I've been using a hop sock ever since I got the grainfather, I read it was highly recommended given the way the pump filter works. On my last brew though I decided to throw 40 grams of cascade in at flameout, and chucked it in the boil rather than the sock, and had a similar issue...major clogging of my filter, leading to a slow drain into the fermenter. Got great heat exchange through my chiller of course though!


----------



## nads

TIGGA351 said:


> I use a brew in the bag bag to line the space between the inside of the boiler and the grain basket to reduce the amount of sediment getting through . If you did this and used a hop sock , then you should capture just about all of it . I know its not always possible , but I use whole hop flowers where I can instead of pellets .... makes a huge difference !!!


When using a brew in the bag bag does this create a problem as it must be sitting very close to the element. With my last brew using a hop sock there was a lot of burnt on matter on the SS above the element which was quite hard to remove, however maybe the bag minimises this.


----------



## kaiserben

I've always used hop socks (even before I got my Grainfather), so it's just second nature. 

I always get plenty of hop matter that escapes the sock, but once the boil is rolling the hop matter just isn't going to settle on the element area, so no worries there. However it will collect around the filter. It's never been a massive issue for me though. One time with a particularly hoppy IPA it did slow down significantly towards the end of transfer to fermenter, so I gave the filter one very small scrape with a mash paddle (in a direction that wouldn't cause that filter to pop off) and it flowed more quickly again. 

However after an incident when brewing with 51% rye I'm now paranoid about grains/proteins gathering around the element at any time I need to ramp up the temperature. Moreso when the inner basket is in and I can't scrape the bottom with my mash paddle. But in reality this'll only be a problem in extreme circumstances (eg 51% rye).


----------



## TIGGA351

nads said:


> When using a brew in the bag bag does this create a problem as it must be sitting very close to the element. With my last brew using a hop sock there was a lot of burnt on matter on the SS above the element which was quite hard to remove, however maybe the bag minimises this.


Haven't had any dramas so far nads ... the bag hasn't been burnt yet and the base of the boiler is never to much trouble to clean up . I find the Grainfather cleaner does a good job of softening everything up and makes cleaning a bit easier . The next brew I'm going to use a hop spider I purchased from Keg King to see if that also can cut down the amount of sediment .... will let you know if it makes a difference .


----------



## kaiserben

Oh - what I am thinking about doing is putting a sock over the recirc pipe (to stop floating bits of grain etc from heading down it). Saw a guy using a proper metal thing in the same way. Thought it was a great idea).


----------



## carniebrew

Hmmm, not a bad idea...you could even just cut a bit of hop sock cloth, put it over the pipe and put the overflow inlet over the top of that.

I just had a look at the online instructions for the Grainfather (to remember what the overflow inlet widget was called)...it look like they've changed the recirc pipe to have a valve and spring assembly. Take a look at page 4 on here:
http://media.wix.com/ugd/e8b8c7_997167c3346440cb9223b0b3a1e378bf.pdf


----------



## kaiserben

Ah - looking at that diagram, what I meant was a sock over the covering the overflow pipe, but over the recirc pipe might work too. 

Another thing I tried once (but have been too lazy to bother with again) was putting a hop sock over the chiller hose as it pumps into a fermenter.


----------



## carniebrew

kaiserben said:


> <snip>
> 
> Another thing I tried once (but have been too lazy to bother with again) was putting a hop sock over the chiller hose as it pumps into a fermenter.


Why? Isn't the GF filter keeping all the crud out of your fermenter?


----------



## kaiserben

Sorry yeah - it was during a recirc that i did it - ie back into GF (but now can't remember how early in the brew day it was. i'm thinking it was last part of boil, when recircing through chiller). 

the gf filter doesn't catch the finer stuff.


----------



## bradsbrew

kaiserben said:


> Oh - what I am thinking about doing is putting a sock over the recirc pipe (to stop floating bits of grain etc from heading down it). Saw a guy using a proper metal thing in the same way. Thought it was a great idea).


I use a cut of end from a bazooka hop screen, works great. Should have made it longer though


----------



## nads

Why not use the foot end of a stocking boiled in water for 10 min to sterilise over the end of the chiller wort out hose when pumping wort into fermenter. This should stop even very fine hop matter.


----------



## bradsbrew

nads said:


> Why not use the foot end of a stocking boiled in water for 10 min to sterilise over the end of the chiller wort out hose when pumping wort into fermenter. This should stop even very fine hop matter.


I use the return pipe cover during the mash to prevent excess grain bits going to the bottom of the kettle, which in turn avoids excess grain in the boil. With a good floc agent like brewbrite or whirflock followed by a decent whirlpool and rest, the need to filter hop bits post chilling should be redundant. 

Cheers


----------



## nads

I do use Whirlfloc but still end up with lots of sediment in my fermenter. What is the whirlpool process for the Grainfather ?


----------



## kaiserben

Yeah, how does everyone get a good whirlpool going? 

(EDIT: My mash paddle is maybe a bit too big to use it to get a whirlpool happening)


----------



## panzerd18

Anyone know when a updated revision of the GF will come out?


----------



## Killer Brew

panzerd18 said:


> Anyone know when a updated revision of the GF will come out?


I would love to know this too. Have pre-approval from the minister of finance to invest in one of these late in the year.


----------



## panzerd18

Killer Brew said:


> I would love to know this too. Have pre-approval from the minister of finance to invest in one of these late in the year.


Price has gone up to $1150 now


----------



## HBHB

panzerd18 said:


> Price has gone up to $1150 now


It has?


----------



## panzerd18

HBHB said:


> It has?


http://www.grainfather.com.au/#!online-store/c8k/!/Grainfather/p/44881857/category=11595346


----------



## carniebrew

kaiserben said:


> Yeah, how does everyone get a good whirlpool going?
> 
> (EDIT: My mash paddle is maybe a bit too big to use it to get a whirlpool happening)


Actually I spoke to the GF guys about this in a recent conversation....they sent me one of their "brew in a box" kits to apologise for a couple of small issues I had with my unit on delivery....the recipe (their "Jacked up!" APA) had a large flameout addition then a "stand" for 20-30 minutes. When I referred to it as a whirlpool in some feedback I sent them, they came back and said specifically that the Grainfather does not need a whirlpool, the design is such that getting a trub cone is not important...I guess because of the filter and its placement? Let me see if I can dig out the actual wording...

EDIT: Here we go:

"_Cool, thanks for sending this info through- just wanting to confirm that you are aware that you do not need to do a “whirpool” when brewing with the Grainfather. __Most of the trub is left behind in the grainfather when chilled into the fermenter, as the pump is covered with a filter which stops the trub from getting trough. __This isn’t really necessary with the Grainfather as the pump filter prevents this from being pumped into the counter flow wort chiller. _

_We don’t see getting a small amount of trub into the fermenter as a major issue as it is a good source of fatty acid’s for the yeast and actually enable them to perform a healthy fermentation. When removing all the cold break you actually get an increased ethyl acetate production which make the air drop character come through(undesirable) You also end up no nucleation points and end up with total saturation of CO2 in the wort – which impede fermentation_"


----------



## kaiserben

Great info, carniebrew. Thanks!


----------



## fishingbrad

> I would love to know this too. Have pre-approval from the minister of finance to invest in one of these late in the year.


+2


----------



## carniebrew

I believe an updated version has already come out. The pictures I'm seeing of the current version look a bit different to mine, specifically the return pipe that runs up the side of the unit, it appears to have a new tap/valve that wasn't there before. They also replaced the counterflow chiller a while back...that seems to be their modus operandi, they upgrade components as they go along and just start supplying the new units with those new pieces.

There's been talk for a while about a PID to replace the controller, I'd be surprised if that didn't come out soon enough...but it may have a corresponding price increase.


----------



## GalBrew

That explains why they have jacked the price up on their website to $1150.


----------



## butisitart

i acquired a 200 micron hop spider between 1st and 2nd gf brews. HUGE difference and utterly convenient. highly recommend it. couldn't find ANY hops in 2nd trub after having a disconcerting amount in the first. going on above comments about putting a hopsock on hose into fermenter, on 3rd brew i'm going to put the hop spider into fermenter and filter there too. i figure that will strip out the grain trub going in.


also.....
partial mashing - great for 2 brews in one if you're time challenged. gf purists out there will probably hate this, but i didded partial mash just to see.

7kg grain bill + 1 can unhopped mash + double hops bill gave me 2 fermenters (46L). something i won't do too often, but great time saver. i know you can do 9kg and no cans, but i were a bit nervous about boilover, even with 7. (and it went close).

point to remember if you try it - pouring the can really slowly, but directly into boil caused the gf heater to shut down as some liquid malt still hit the floor of the urn and fried itself. it ain't easy re-setting the boiler if the gf is full of molten brew, as the reset switch is UNDER the bloody thing. *design fault*. next time, melt the unhopped malt first and then add in.

out with the vinegar and baking soda to clean the bottom of the gf.


and
dumping grain?? after sparge, grain bin into sink to drain off and cool down, then pull a kitchen garbag over the top of it and flip. done.


----------



## moodgett

butisitart said:


> also.....
> partial mashing - great for 2 brews in one if you're time challenged. gf purists out there will probably hate this, but i didded partial mash just to see.


I have had some teething issues since converting from extract and partials. So to test some variables decided to throw a 15 min extract apa through my gf


----------



## GalBrew

So are people recommending the use of a hop spider? I just ordered one of the updated GFs, should arrive for the weekend!


----------



## carniebrew

GalBrew said:


> So are people recommending the use of a hop spider? I just ordered one of the updated GFs, should arrive for the weekend!


Either that or a hop sock, you should definitely use something to keep hop trub off the filter inside the GF.

I love the idea of using DME/LME to do big batches or even high gravity stuff. F*ck the purists, whatever works, works! But good idea to pull some boiling wort out of the GF into a jug and dissolve the extract in that first before adding back to the boil.


----------



## jc64

GalBrew said:


> So are people recommending the use of a hop spider? I just ordered one of the updated GFs, should arrive for the weekend!


I only use a hop sock if I'm going over about 100g into the boiler. The filter works just fine for anything under that.


----------



## Dazzbrew

butisitart said:


> i acquired a 200 micron hop spider between 1st and 2nd gf brews. HUGE difference and utterly convenient. highly recommend it. couldn't find ANY hops in 2nd trub after having a disconcerting amount in the first. going on above comments about putting a hopsock on hose into fermenter, on 3rd brew i'm going to put the hop spider into fermenter and filter there too. i figure that will strip out the grain trub going in.
> 
> 
> also.....
> partial mashing - great for 2 brews in one if you're time challenged. gf purists out there will probably hate this, but i didded partial mash just to see.
> 
> 7kg grain bill + 1 can unhopped mash + double hops bill gave me 2 fermenters (46L). something i won't do too often, but great time saver. i know you can do 9kg and no cans, but i were a bit nervous about boilover, even with 7. (and it went close).
> 
> point to remember if you try it - pouring the can really slowly, but directly into boil caused the gf heater to shut down as some liquid malt still hit the floor of the urn and fried itself. it ain't easy re-setting the boiler if the gf is full of molten brew, as the reset switch is UNDER the bloody thing. *design fault*. next time, melt the unhopped malt first and then add in.
> 
> out with the vinegar and baking soda to clean the bottom of the gf.
> 
> 
> and
> dumping grain?? after sparge, grain bin into sink to drain off and cool down, then pull a kitchen garbag over the top of it and flip. done.


switch to unhopped DME I think it would disolve better.


----------



## butisitart

thanks for the positive add ons -thought i'd get caned on adding ANYTHING to a gf. h34r:

hop spider?? personal choice, really. but toss the spider in, one only, no tying strings or desintegrating bags over short term. hop bags that i've bought still leak a lot of hops. this doesn't leak anything. and you just throw your 2nd, 3rd hops straight into the same thing. oh - and the best is that the hook over handle for the hop spider i bought is pretty much perfect height for the gf. matter of preference, i guess. but for me the spider is functional, single clean (as opposed to 2 or 3 socks), seriously filters, and looks like doubling as a trub filter into the fermenter. cost wise, = 4 socks which i'd go through in a year anyway. so ticks all the boxes for me.

DME sounds a go, too.

hey ho, hey ho, it's off to brew i go


----------



## Trevandjo

Good argument for a spider. What one did you buy?


----------



## carniebrew

Trevandjo said:


> Good argument for a spider. What one did you buy?


Ditto...link please?


----------



## GalBrew

On a separate issue how are people finding the counter-flow chiller? Anyone on Melbourne water care to comment on how well it chills?


----------



## wambesi

GalBrew said:


> On a separate issue how are people finding the counter-flow chiller? Anyone on Melbourne water care to comment on how well it chills?


I love mine, so much so I sold my plate chiller - which I swore was the best thing ever.
I'm in Albury but the water here (and only a few weeks back when I lived in Canberra) has been fine to chill it down to pitching temps - especially this time of year.


----------



## carniebrew

wambesi said:


> I love mine, so much so I sold my plate chiller - which I swore was the best thing ever.
> I'm in Albury but the water here (and only a few weeks back when I lived in Canberra) has been fine to chill it down to pitching temps - especially this time of year.


+1 for me, went from around 40m with my old immersion chiller to maybe 15m with this unit, very efficient. Just remember to regularly tighten all the connections!


----------



## HBHB

Quick change of plans on which BRIPA to do this morning between grain bills and packing orders.

Decided to push the limits a bit. 8.8kg of grain and a few hundred grams of rice hulls. 1.75kg of rye a.13 kg of chocolate rye and .28kg of cara rye in the grain bill.

Plus some rice hulls for good measure - just in case.

Stepped 45, 53, 65, 72 and ramping to Mash Out currently.


----------



## wambesi

Regarding the chiller - I like to recirculate while chilling back into the GF (actually into the hop sock as an extra filter) to get the temp down first and then I slow the flow a little more and go straight into the fermenter - nice temp.

I have done it straight into the fermenter but I like to follow this method now.


----------



## HBHB

Just a little information from imake on the new version that is rolling out in the coming days/weeks depending on where you're located & how often your retailer orders. Stocks are going to be very limited.

The next units are the latest version with the ball valve fittings/flow control on the wort return outlet, second wort return pipe mount and a seal for the bottom plate and silicone pump line/boot mod etc.

Haven't seen our stock yet but expect it today or Monday. Will drop up some pics of the mods when we can.

Apparently upgrade parts are expected some time around Late July/August for those looking to retro fit.

Martin


----------



## carniebrew

Seal for the bottom plate would be nice.

What do you mean by "silicone pump line/boot mod" though?


----------



## Fred_the_Big_Cat

I have had a Grainfather on order for a month now and after seeing HBHB's post, just rang my local brew shop to speak to them about the upgraded version. Was told that this is what they have been waiting on and it should be available for me to pick-up on Wednesday - yah.


----------



## HBHB

carniebrew said:


> Seal for the bottom plate would be nice.
> 
> What do you mean by "silicone pump line/boot mod" though?


will post some pics as soon as they arrive and I find out for myself lol


----------



## carniebrew

Ta. I'm guessing it might be where the return pipe connects to the pump...on my unit when delivered there were two cable ties clamping the silicon boot to the pipe nipple, but only barely. It leaked as soon as I ran a cleaning cycle. I ended up replacing one of the cable ties with a proper metal clamp, that fixed it up.

This pic is where I'd temporarily put a new cable tie on just to get me through the clean cycle. The two lower cable ties (without tails) are the ones the GF came with, already attached.


----------



## butisitart

http://www.ibrew.com.au

i got hopspider over the counter at craftbrewer, capalaba, brisbane, but for some reason it's not on their online catalogue.
ibrew (link above) also has them - which is where i first saw one.


----------



## panzerd18

How good is the counter flow chiller compared to a big plate chiller. 

Still contemplating either the grainfather or a crown urn BIAB.


----------



## Trevandjo

It took me a couple of brews to suss out the correct way to use the chiller efficiently. Today boil to fermenter @ 20 deg in 22 min. Country Vic, Australia.


----------



## carniebrew

Trevandjo said:


> It took me a couple of brews to suss out the correct way to use the chiller efficiently. Today boil to fermenter @ 20 deg in 22 min. Country Vic, Australia.


So what have you found works best Trev?


----------



## Trevandjo

Recycle the wort at flameout for 5 min to sanitize. Half close the outlet 1/4 turn valve. Turn cold water on and feel the wort outlet hose temp. This should feel cold after a few seconds. Turn off pump. Outlet hose into fermenter. Turn pump back on. Job done. 

When I messed around trying to cool the urn down by recirculating I could only ever get it down to around 40. 

I also try to save around 20L of cooling water for cleanup.


----------



## butisitart

i nearly went the crown urn biab but i found the gf the same weekend, and eventually went that way. happy?? yep.
my budget balance went like this -
current gear to upgrade to urn biab v upgrade to gf
gf was more expensive, but appeared to be less stuffing around. but ultimately, probably a better and more convenient system than an urn biab.
so i went the gf. regrets?? no. perfection?? not really.
should i have gone urn biab?? no way.
so without actually owning an urn biab, and thinking about the practicalities, and then working with a gf (which has it's own learning curves), i'm really happy i didn't go the urn biab. not to say they're inferior, but the gf is a mash stepping, wort chilling, sugar efficiency sucking joyride. and i would have kept wondering about the wisdon of my choice if i went the 3 pot or urn.
and from the gear i had, it's like going from an aluminium saucepan to a fully programmable pressurised rice cooker. that sort of jump in technology.
in hindsight, would i do it again?? yep.
the way i see it, from a guy who's never owned an urn, but who has suffered from the 1 pot juggle, is that the gf is a gem.

oh - counter flow chiller works like this - the first time i tried it, i stuck a finger under the water out hose to see how hot it was. i scalded my pinkie. it works.


----------



## aamcle

A few quick questions, what stops the bottom of the grain pipe resting on the bottom of the outer urn?

How far above the bottom is it?

I know bottom filter is mounted above the bottom of the grain pipe, how far is it from the bottom?

Thanks all. Aamcle


----------



## enoch

There is a lip on the top of the malt pipe which engages with a ring just inside the top of the boiler.
Same ring is used to stand the malt pipe on when you pull it out for sparging.


----------



## aamcle

Thanks Enoch.

Aamcle


----------



## kaiserben

Trevandjo said:


> It took me a couple of brews to suss out the correct way to use the chiller efficiently. Today boil to fermenter @ 20 deg in 22 min. Country Vic, Australia.





carniebrew said:


> So what have you found works best Trev?


It took me a while too. A lot of stuffing about because I simply didn't believe it'd work as well as it does. 

Previously I'd try to chill my wort down as far as it'd go inside the GF before starting the transfer to fermenter. But a few experts finally drummed it into my brain that the counterflow chiller is more efficient when coming from a higher temp. 

It might be because it's now winter and my (inner city Sydney) tap water is a bit cooler than it was in summer, but yesterday I only chilled the wort inside the GF down to 70C before starting the transfer to a fermenter. I had the flow from the chiller at about halfway (so still flowing quite fast, but not full bore) and my cold water tap at full bore. Once finished I had 20C wort in the fermenter. Very happy. So easy.


----------



## HBHB

Pics of the latest modification (Current crop) of Grainfather Units





Bottom plate with seal.




Quick disconnect with better silicone seals




Ball valve assembly on wort return arm




2 wort return pipe brackets




Better boot style hose connections at the pump

If we find more, we'll post.


----------



## kaiserben

I'm pretty keen to upgrade to quick disconnects and ball valve. 

That pic of the 'bottom plate with seal' - is the pic of the bottom plate sitting behind the top plate?


----------



## HBHB

kaiserben said:


> I'm pretty keen to upgrade to quick disconnects and ball valve.
> 
> That pic of the 'bottom plate with seal' - is the pic of the bottom plate sitting behind the top plate?


Yes Ben.


----------



## carniebrew

I feel the onset of upgrade envy. I shall lock myself in a room, rock back and forth slowly and repeat "those bits will _not_ make better beer, those bits will _not _ make better beer"....


----------



## enoch

I presume the ball and spring valve is a safety valve to reduce the very real risk of the (famous?) Grainfather boiling wort geyser when you turn the pump on without the cap on the return pipe. 
Thankfully when I did it it was when turning it back on at the powerpoint and I was a safe distance away. Given where a person would be standing when hitting the switch on the controller I was lucky.
I'm not convinced of the prudence of charging for an upgrade to fix that safety issue with Australian Consumer Law being as it is.


----------



## Adrie

It's in and working like a dream 

The only issue was that the spring in the safety catches everything passing through.One smal hop leaf is enough to block the safety. This really messed up the cooling cycle. Since hops trub from pallets collects around the filter I wonder if a finer mesh around this filter would solve this problem. Otherwise Removing the spring and ball will....


----------



## shinjuku

being a K&K brewer/kegger.... would it be a too big a step to buy a grainfather and try all grain brewing ?

is it cheaper doing all grain than using kits/bits.... ?


----------



## butisitart

is marginally cheaper, and massively tastier. it's like the difference between woolies no name bread (commercial beer), good commercial breads in woolies (beer out of a kit), and actual home made bread/beer.
no comparison.
grainfather?? i've done 5 brews and tasted my first 2. i get an erection just thinking about what brew 5 is gonna taste like.


----------



## carniebrew

I'm going to brew a Baltic Porter in my GF this week...23 litre batch, aiming for nearly 1080 OG. I've worked it out to an 8kg grain bill @ 70% efficiency...but does anyone have an idea what sort of efficiency hit I'm going to take with this big a grain bill?


----------



## slcmorro

butisitart said:


> is marginally cheaper


It's exponentially cheaper, especially if you can buy in bulk and store. Here's an example of some current prices:

25kg bag of JW Trad - $39 - $1.56 per kg
25kg bag of JW Wheat - $45 - $1.80 per kg
5kg split of Crystal - $17 - $3.40 per kg
100gm of Cascade Hops - $6.50


*Basic Aussie Pale Recipe AG* (4.13% @ 23L)

3kg Pils ($4.68)
500gm Wheat ($0.90)
250gm Crystal ($0.85)
60gm Cascade throughout boil and dry hopping ($3.90)
US05 sachet ($4.50)
Grand Total = $14.83

*Basic Aussie Pale Recipe Extract* (4.11% @ 23L)
1.7kg Coopers Aussie Pale Ale tin (with kit yeast) - $16
1kg Coopers Brew Enhancer 2 - $7.80
Grand Total = $23.80

The AG recipe above will literally wipe the floor with the extract recipe across the board, for about 60% of the total extract price.


----------



## panzerd18

$5 a slab, thats pretty dam good!!!


----------



## slcmorro

That's just pure ingredients cost. You've got whirlfloc/moss if you choose to use it, plus cleaners, water, bottlecaps (if you use them) and electricity. Still, pretty damn cheap.


----------



## Darrens

25kg bag of JW Trad - $39 - $1.56 per kg
25kg bag of JW Wheat - $39 - $1.56 per kg

Gee I would like to pay these prices for malt mate.... Im paying $ 60 a bag.


----------



## slcmorro

Darrens said:


> 25kg bag of JW Trad - $39 - $1.56 per kg
> 25kg bag of JW Wheat - $39 - $1.56 per kg
> 
> Gee I would like to pay these prices for malt mate.... Im paying $ 60 a bag.


They're bulk buy prices, from suppliers in and around Melbourne - specifically, from the Full Pint BB in Sept 2014. I didn't make the figures up.

Edit: I did however misquote the Wheat. Have edited the original post to add the $0.12 increase.


----------



## wambesi

slcmorro said:


> They're bulk buy prices, from suppliers in and around Melbourne - specifically, from the Full Pint BB in Sept 2014. I didn't make the figures up.
> 
> Edit: I did however misquote the Wheat. Have edited the original post to add the $0.12 increase.


Also note that they're the aussie malts - you'd pay a little more for imported varieties.

If you have access to a bulk buy in your area this is a great way to save money, even if you don't but you have a local supplier you should save on buying a sack of malt vs by the kilo for each batch.

I just but a sack or two locally now but I do remember buying the JW malts for that price when I lived in Sydney.


----------



## butisitart

beersmith users....
just bought beersmith, and a few mentions here about gf profile on bs, which i can't find in equipment or mash profiles. any help appreciated.


----------



## Darrens

Thanks guys, still paying $60 a sack I don't mind eh ... Still cheaper this way for me . Also just switched to AG with the grainfather and my own mill also , Im having fun!!!! and loving it!!!


----------



## mckenry

butisitart said:


> beersmith users....
> just bought beersmith, and a few mentions here about gf profile on bs, which i can't find in equipment or mash profiles. any help appreciated.


You need to use the 'Add-ons' button.


----------



## butisitart

i never never use OMG. it's cliche'd, hackneyed and american.
but......
OMG the Add-ons in beersmith looks bloody amazing!!!!!
lots of new toys to play with

cheers mckenry


----------



## SimoB

I think I'm going to sell all my gear and buy a grainfather.. it's so compact compared to what I have now... and I need to move closer to the city and downsize.. 

Anyone not like there GF?


----------



## tugger

Love it so much I brought 2.


----------



## SimoB

Alright - Victorians, get ready for an onslaught of equipment sales this weekend.


----------



## carniebrew

Did anyone mention that Merri Masher club members get 5% off at Full Pint?


----------



## mrsupraboy

Question. 

I come from biab to grainfather. Biab 65%efficiency gf 90% and over.

I over sparge to compensate the added efficiency. Too lazy to add it in beersmith. I was told over sparging can cause of flavors. I havnt experienced none of these of flavours. Can you really over fly sparge on such a small batch of grain. I would of thought you would more get off flavours from batch sparging not fly


----------



## MastersBrewery

You can probably fly sparge down to 1010 safely, over sparging will eventually draw tanins (the off flavours you mentioned).


----------



## GalBrew

I haven't heard of tannin extraction being an issue in batch sparging. The runnings aren't thin enough and there is more pH buffering capacity in a batch than fly runnings.


----------



## GalBrew

SimoB said:


> I think I'm going to sell all my gear and buy a grainfather.


That's exactly what I did. Best Call ever.


----------



## carniebrew

mrsupraboy said:


> Question.
> 
> I come from biab to grainfather. Biab 65%efficiency gf 90% and over.
> 
> I over sparge to compensate the added efficiency. Too lazy to add it in beersmith. I was told over sparging can cause of flavors. I havnt experienced none of these of flavours. Can you really over fly sparge on such a small batch of grain. I would of thought you would more get off flavours from batch sparging not fly


Just curious...why over sparge then? Why not sparge normally, then pull the mash out and add some top up water? Seems a pretty easy problem to solve?


----------



## kaiserben

carniebrew said:


> Just curious...why over sparge then? Why not sparge normally, then pull the mash out and add some top up water? Seems a pretty easy problem to solve?


Ditto. I just top up to 28L after sparge is done.

If you always top up to 28L pre-boil, once you're sure of your usual/average efficiency you can enter that efficiency % into BeerSmith and you'll be hitting every gravity and volume target in no time.


----------



## bradsbrew

SimoB said:


> I think I'm going to sell all my gear and buy a grainfather.. it's so compact compared to what I have now... and I need to move closer to the city and downsize..
> 
> Anyone not like there GF?


The main thing is getting your mill setting to suit the GF and read the instructions then adjust how you currently brew to suit the grainfather. Best to have a second vessel to heat your sparge water, although I have used a 5L jug, hot water from the tap and a kettle to do sparge water on the run.


----------



## carniebrew

I put a Red IPA made using my GF into our club comp last Sunday. It finished 7th out of 26 entries, and the common theme amongst all the score sheets was "slightly astringent", and a couple mentioned a roasty character, which is curious given it was ale malt with a little special B and a tiny bit of midnight wheat for colour. Looking up astringency, it seems it can be brought on by over-milling the grain, sparging too hot, or mash pH issues. I'll pay attention to all of these things, but just wondering if anyone's noticed anything similar in their GF beers?


----------



## slcmorro

I put 5 GF beers into the FCBB (National Homebrew) comp recently, and I didn't get any comments abut astringency. In fact my Helles won Gold and my Tripel won Silver.


----------



## McMelloW

slcmorro said:


> I put 5 GF beers into the FCBB (National Homebrew) comp recently, and I didn't get any comments abut astringency. In fact my Helles won Gold and my Tripel won Silver.


Congrats, It is the brwer who brew the beers. A kettle is only the tool used by skillfull hands.


----------



## Dazzbrew

Good job slcmorro


----------



## HBHB

*Heads up for Grainfather owners*



Grainfather owners take a minute to register your warranty. 

Simple enough and it only take a few seconds.

Go HERE to do it if you purchased in Australia.


----------



## mrsupraboy

kaiserben said:


> Ditto. I just top up to 28L after sparge is done.
> 
> If you always top up to 28L pre-boil, once you're sure of your usual/average efficiency you can enter that efficiency % into BeerSmith and you'll be hitting every gravity and volume target in no time.


My thinking is more efficiency the way I'm doin it. Tho i havnt tasted any tanims. Have people actually tasted things from over sparging or are they educated guesses


----------



## carniebrew

mrsupraboy said:


> My thinking is more efficiency the way I'm doin it. Tho i havnt tasted any tanims. Have people actually tasted things from over sparging or are they educated guesses


But you sorta indicated in your previous post that you were getting too much efficiency...because you were "too lazy" to adjust your recipe in Beersmith to allow for the huge jump we get from BIAB to GF. It's a bloody lot faster to add top up water after a normal sparge than it is to continue to filter that water through your grain bed...so get lazier and get that mash pipe out of the way!


----------



## kaiserben

^^ Exactly. Not to mention you'll be buying less grains to hit those targets. (rather than buying more and beating those targets, but without much point).


----------



## SixStar

Hey guys just a quick pointer, might already have been mentioned...

If you want to get the crud off the element, cut a lemon in half and use that as a scrubber. Works a treat and will be brand new again in seconds.

Cheers


----------



## meathead

I have been doing no chill with my GF up until yesterday when I used Melbournes icy water thru the CF chiller.
It worked very well, but I had no idea when the wort was cool enough to tfr to the fermenter.
The outlet hose felt cool to the touch within 10 mins but the SC200 was reading 50 ish deg I'm assuming because the element is still hot.
How are people detirmining when to transfer?


----------



## wambesi

I generally know it's cool enough by touch of the hose - that said, I also recirculate back to the GF when chilling until it reaches about 30-40 degrees.
I've got those terrible stick on temp strips on the side of the FV which also gives me an idea when it fills up - not that I am too concerned though.


----------



## GalBrew

Get a Blichmann thrumometer. They are a pretty cheap in line thermometer that you connect to the outlet of your chiller.


----------



## bradsbrew

GalBrew said:


> Get a Blichmann thrumometer. They are a pretty cheap in line thermometer that you connect to the outlet of your chiller.


Do the thrumometers handle the near boiling wort?


----------



## slcmorro

bradsbrew said:


> Do the thrumometers handle the near boiling wort?


Won't matter. I'd just connect it when the probe shows the recirc back into the unit showed around 40c, and then slow the flow down and go right into the FV


----------



## GalBrew

Yep. I don't connect mine until I'm ready to pump the wort into the fermenter after recirculating into the
Grainfather.


----------



## meathead

GalBrew said:


> Get a Blichmann thrumometer. They are a pretty cheap in line thermometer that you connect to the outlet of your chiller.


Gold


----------



## meathead

OK now on to the next challenge.
Double batch of Doc Smurtos GA in the GF diluted in the fermenter 

Here is the single batch grain bill 



Pale Ale Malt 2.40 Kg 
Caramalt 0.80 Kg 
Wheat Malt 0.80 Kg
Caramunich I 0.25 Kg 

Here is the hop bill

Amarillo. 20gm. 60 mins
Amarillo. 15gm. 10mins
Amarillo. 15gm, 5 mins
Amarillo. 15gm. 0min

OG 1.047

So do do a double batch in the GF, do I double the grain bill and if so how much strike water, how much sparge water, how much top up,water in fermenter How does the hop bill change?

A lot to ask but hey we're a community


----------



## carniebrew

That's a tough one to work out...if you're looking to dilute in the fermenter, then the larger grain bill in a similar kettle volume will hurt your efficiency...and the denser wort will also likely lead to less hop acid extraction.

Have a look at Grain & Grape's website, I believe they have some stuff in there on how to do double batches in the braumeister...I think you mash twice in the same water or something like that? You should be able to follow the same instructions for the GF.

Here it is: http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/braumeister-double-mashing


----------



## kaiserben

meathead said:


> ..., but I had no idea when the wort was cool enough to tfr to the fermenter.
> The outlet hose felt cool to the touch within 10 mins but the SC200 was reading 50 ish deg I'm assuming because the element is still hot.
> How are people detirmining when to transfer?


I used to stress about this. 

I used to recirc and chill as low as it'd possibly go within the GF before transfer to a fermenter. (the lowest I'd get in GF was about 46C, due to the residual heat in the stainless steel. That'd usually result in ~24C in fermenter after transfer). While that works okay, it's not ideal to have the wort at these temps and wasting time while you worry about stuff you don't actually need to worry about. 

The people who make the Grainfather replied to a question of mine and said that the chiller works better when the wort starts hotter. That sounds counterintuitive, so I decided to do a transfer while the wort temp in the GF was up around 75C. After the transfer was complete I tested the temperature (using a no-rinsed thermometer) and the wort temp once in fermenter ended up as 21C. So I've never looked back. 

In short- I chill to get it under 80C (so around 70-75C) inside the GF, then transfer to fermenter and never have a problem. Sydney tap water.


----------



## HBHB

bradsbrew said:


> Do the thrumometers handle the near boiling wort?


Nope. Buggers them up faster than a politician with a book of blank cheques can bugger up a country. Recirc for the sanitising of the chiller for 10 back into the unit, then fit the trumometer and apply 3-4LMP water flow. They'll handle that.


----------



## carniebrew

I'll agree with that, my last couple of brews I've only re-circ'd for a short time and at around 75C i've started the transfer to the FV, ending up with around 22C wort. I use a pretty slow flow rate into the fermenter to achieve that.


----------



## meathead

Thanks all
I did a test run with boiling water yesterday
Seems that if you run the water quickly and wort slowly it will drop to 20deg no prob
Problem there is water waste
With slow water in and slow wort out 28deg very achievable from the get go
So perhaps recirc until 75 is the go


----------



## SimoB

hi guys, you think it's OK to use the grainfather cleaner on the SS brewtech fermenters?


----------



## carniebrew

SimoB said:


> hi guys, you think it's OK to use the grainfather cleaner on the SS brewtech fermenters?


Yep, it'll be safe on anything stainless. But save your coin and just use sodium percarbonate....


----------



## SimoB

carniebrew said:


> Yep, it'll be safe on anything stainless. But save your coin and just use sodium percarbonate....


Cheers mate


----------



## zeggie

Are there any ex 3 vessel brewers here who have moved onto the Grainfather? What is your opinions?

I'm in the situation where Im moving to a place with no room for my outdoor 4v HERMS brewrig and I'm considering selling it to get a grainfather or braumeister that I can setup inside in a tiny laundry...
Would love to hear peoples experiences.


----------



## wobbly

zeggie said:


> get a grainfather or braumeister that I can setup inside in a tiny laundry...


Just be mindful that when "boiling" either with a Grainfather or Braumeister in your 'tiny laundry" you will get a lot of condensation on the walls if you don't have an efficient extraction system. Normal ceiling extraction fans don't handle the condensate boil off very well and on the Braumeister forum a number of members have installed range hoods or similar to over come the issue

Wobbly


----------



## bradsbrew

zeggie said:


> Are there any ex 3 vessel brewers here who have moved onto the Grainfather? What is your opinions?
> 
> I'm in the situation where Im moving to a place with no room for my outdoor 4v HERMS brewrig and I'm considering selling it to get a grainfather or braumeister that I can setup inside in a tiny laundry...
> Would love to hear peoples experiences.


I sold my 120L output 3V HERMS and bought the grainfather. Took me a good 3 months to change my brewing methods to suit the GF, another big issue for me was my milling but that is now sorted. I was also a no chiller, the chilled hoppy beers on the GF are way better than any I made and no chilled on my old system.

Output size is obviously the worst thing about the changeover but the quality of the beer has made up for it.

Cheers


----------



## Buckskin

I've been wondering why my brews on the GF are coming out so bitter...been aiming for 35IBUs on Beersmith and they're coming out closer to about 70/80.

I've figured that its caused by adding loads of hops at 0 mins left of boil (50g-75g). Beersmith shows that this adds, no IBUs, however, the hops are staying at almost boiling temp for the entire time that it takes to drain the GF (I've been going straight from boil to FV)

More recently, Ive recirculated down to about 65, then switched to FV. This has helped slightly, but still not perfect.

Any suggestions on how to get this more accurate? or how to manipulate Beersmith to accomodate?


----------



## slcmorro

Count your 0 min additions as 10 min additions in your software. Easy


----------



## ramu_gupta

zeggie said:


> Are there any ex 3 vessel brewers here who have moved onto the Grainfather? What is your opinions?
> 
> I'm in the situation where Im moving to a place with no room for my outdoor 4v HERMS brewrig and I'm considering selling it to get a grainfather or braumeister that I can setup inside in a tiny laundry...
> Would love to hear peoples experiences.


Haven't looked back since I got my GF. Great unit. 
I've modded mine by using a length of silicone hose instead of the stainless rod and arm for recirc.
Have ordered a Brauduino to replace the control unit - can't wait for that to arrive. Nothing wrong with the control unit - I just want a bit more control. 
Still use my immersion chiller instead of the counterflow one supplied.
Getting consistent numbers on all my brews.


----------



## zeggie

bradsbrew said:


> I sold my 120L output 3V HERMS and bought the grainfather. Took me a good 3 months to change my brewing methods to suit the GF, another big issue for me was my milling but that is now sorted. I was also a no chiller, the chilled hoppy beers on the GF are way better than any I made and no chilled on my old system.
> 
> Output size is obviously the worst thing about the changeover but the quality of the beer has made up for it.
> 
> Cheers



Cheers! So no regrets? I'm not really concerned about batch size, I mainly brew single batches these days because I like variety.

Cheers wobbly planning on putting a rangehood in the window area.


----------



## wambesi

zeggie said:


> Are there any ex 3 vessel brewers here who have moved onto the Grainfather? What is your opinions?
> 
> I'm in the situation where Im moving to a place with no room for my outdoor 4v HERMS brewrig and I'm considering selling it to get a grainfather or braumeister that I can setup inside in a tiny laundry...
> Would love to hear peoples experiences.


I'm another. Been through kits, extract, BIAB, three-vessel gravity (70L), four-vessel HERMS (70L) and moved now to the GF.
I do not regret it at all, it's simplified the brew day, cut down on equipment and provides excellent results.

It's a great little system and like every system, it has some quirks but nothing that is a war stopper. Some people have whinged it's not as polished as say the BM, but there's a huge cost factor involved there as well and IMO it is a well-crafted machine.

Some users (a small amount) have had some problems but feedback here and (mostly) on the Facebook group has shown the company is willing to do everything they can to ensure we're happy with them.

I ordered mine just a few days before Christmas and the rep from NZ apologised for having none in stock in Brisbane, then he got back in contact with me and said they grabbed one sitting in a local brew shop and put it on a truck for me and hoped it would get to me for Chrissy.

I never expected it to get to me until after new years but here they are doing this, anyways, ended up arriving first working day after Christmas - stoked. So great before and after-sales service.



zeggie said:


> Cheers! So no regrets? I'm not really concerned about batch size, I mainly brew single batches these days because I like variety.
> 
> Cheers wobbly planning on putting a rangehood in the window area.


As said above, none. I don't regret the path to get here either, had a ball designing my various systems but with a bunch of kids now and less and less time (as well as a job that owns me and my time) it means I have less to worry about.

Batch size was also never a worry as the only time I did double batches was when I had a neighbor who took half, I prefer variety as well.

Only mod I've done now is the customised STC to allow programmed step mashes etc. It's a great unit by itself but it allows a little more.


----------



## GalBrew

I also ditched my 3v with HERMS for a GF. All I can say is great outcome, very happy with the unit.


----------



## nads

I'm also a happy Grainfather owner and have done three brews with a fourth ready to go. I'm curious Wambesi you mantion that you have customised the STC to enable step mashes is that the STC that is suplied with the GF or another STC unit. I would be very interested to know what you have done and how as it would certainly simplify the process.


----------



## wambesi

nads said:


> I'm also a happy Grainfather owner and have done three brews with a fourth ready to go. I'm curious Wambesi you mantion that you have customised the STC to enable step mashes is that the STC that is suplied with the GF or another STC unit. I would be very interested to know what you have done and how as it would certainly simplify the process.


Check out this link where I purchased the new control unit from. It's a STC1000+, basically a STC1000 which has had a new customised firmware uploaded to the device allowing extra functionality.

It's pretty much a simple swap (some minor wiring) of the old STC unit with this one.

Have a read up on the page that links from there which goes through all the options, you can control the initial strike water, step mashes, the boil and hot break and hop additions with audible alarms and display telling you what is up next.


----------



## meathead

Er 1 small problem with the link


----------



## carniebrew

Try this: https://translate.google.com.au/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.storagrytor.se%2Fp%2Fstc1000-brew&edit-text=

And despite the translation this warning is obvious: NOTE! When replacing computer Grain Father then disappear for the warranty on the brewing plant NOTE !!


----------



## wambesi

meathead said:


> Er 1 small problem with the link


Works for me, just need to translate the page - they come through when ordered with no problems.



carniebrew said:


> Try this: https://translate.google.com.au/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.storagrytor.se%2Fp%2Fstc1000-brew&edit-text=
> 
> And despite the translation this warning is obvious: NOTE! When replacing computer Grain Father then disappear for the warranty on the brewing plant NOTE !!


Meh, not a huge deal IMO but everyone looks at these things different. I voided my warranty on my phone and tablet within days of receiving those as well.
Many have done it with no side effects and if I do have something go wrong with it it's my fault and mine alone.


----------



## HBHB

Actually got to have a play with the latest rendition with all the current mods today.

Here's some pics of the main modifications which will probably only be of interest to the early adopters.

Central wort overflow return pipe blocker for mashing in



Overall view of the wort return arm and ball valve + QD assembly together




Below: The wort return arm and chiller connection now sport a solid coarse thread for easier attachment and better seal system as well




Below: This may become blocked with hop trub, so if you get a blockage, I'd say look here first. Takes 5 seconds to undo to clear it.



Other mods include a seal for the bottom perforated plate in the malt pipe and a second support bracket on the wort return pipe plus a better silicone boot system on the pump assembly.

Hope this helps to get a better idea of the mods. 

I believe the parts will be available Australia wide sometime over the next 4-6 weeks.


----------



## takai

Im sure it has been answered in the thread, but with the coarseness of the search I cant find it. 
What is the max grain capacity of the malt pipe, and how easy would it be to do high gravity brews, say 1.120?


----------



## acarey

takai said:


> Im sure it has been answered in the thread, but with the coarseness of the search I cant find it.
> What is the max grain capacity of the malt pipe, and how easy would it be to do high gravity brews, say 1.120?


They say 9kg max. I did like a 9.1 and it was a bit of an epic disaster, the water calcs seemed to fail and I had to do a lot of ******* about. The beer was still good though [emoji41]

Not exactly a relaxing brew day.


----------



## welly2

Yeah! Mine arrived finally!


----------



## HBHB

takai said:


> Im sure it has been answered in the thread, but with the coarseness of the search I cant find it.
> What is the max grain capacity of the malt pipe, and how easy would it be to do high gravity brews, say 1.120?


We've done up to 9.0 kg (it's a squeeze)

Highest gravity that we achieved during the earlier play days was 1.120 using Joe white as a base malt in a 17L batch of American Barley Wine. From memory, it achieved around 72% Brewhouse efficiency and was about a litre under on volume from what was planned. Would have to go back and find It to get exact numbers. It'll handle 18-20L batches with gravities up around 1.105 no troubles.


----------



## welly2

So putting my Grainfather together. I must have a fairly new model because it comes with seals for the false bottom and top. It seems the seals are too big because they won't stay on. Every time I push the bottom and top plates down inside the inner basket, they come off so I'm not getting a good seal.

Bugger. Have dropped Grainfather a message on their facebook page, I'm sure they'll get back to me fairly promptly.


----------



## taztiger

welly2 said:


> So putting my Grainfather together. I must have a fairly new model because it comes with seals for the false bottom and top. It seems the seals are too big because they won't stay on. Every time I push the bottom and top plates down inside the inner basket, they come off so I'm not getting a good seal.
> 
> Bugger. Have dropped Grainfather a message on their facebook page, I'm sure they'll get back to me fairly promptly.


Just try wetting the inside of the basket and it should slide a bit easier.


----------



## carniebrew

taztiger said:


> Just try wetting the inside of the basket and it should slide a bit easier.


Or a bit of food grade/keg lube (a really little bit) on the outside of the seal should work.


----------



## welly2

taztiger said:


> Just try wetting the inside of the basket and it should slide a bit easier.


Oh it slides in fine, the problem with the seal is that it is not tight enough to stay on when you slide it in. It's basically too big for the false bottom - not by much but enough that it won't stay on.


----------



## carniebrew

Ah ok, so it won't actually fit snugly around the bottom plate? That is curious.


----------



## welly2

carniebrew said:


> Ah ok, so it won't actually fit snugly around the bottom plate? That is curious.


Exactly. It fits around but it's a bit loose and when you push the bottom plate down, more often than not the seal comes off. So that's a shame. Thankfully I wasn't planning on brewing this or next week so can hang on. Not the end of the world!


----------



## GalBrew

The Grainfather website has video instructions on how to put the thing in. Basically spray with some starsan. The video library is quite helpful.


----------



## welly2

GalBrew said:


> The Grainfather website has video instructions on how to put the thing in. Basically spray with some starsan. The video library is quite helpful.


Yeah, did the star san trick. It's not that the seal is too wide/tight to fit in the inner basket, it's that it's just too loose to actually stay on the top and bottom plates. It doesn't sag or anything but the slightest movement on the seal - ie. when you slide it into the inner basket, and it comes off. I managed to get the bottom plate in with the seal in once (very carefully) but as soon as I pulled up the top overflow pipe, the bottom plate slid up and the seal came off. From my understanding, the bottom plate should be fairly firmly lodged in the inner basket. Either way, it's not quite right. I've emailed Grainfather to see what they suggest.


----------



## acarey

I've got the 1st generation grainfather and I'll be upgrading and buying all the new parts separately when they are available. I don't see myself bothering with the bottom seal. I've done about 20 brews and never had an issue. 

2c


----------



## carniebrew

I don't think the bottom plate is causing me issues now either...the only way grain seems to be getting in to my wort is when it leaks through the centre hole in the top plate,and then gets sucked down the overflow pipe. I'm stopping that now via a mesh filter over the overflow pipe inlet.


----------



## welly2

Got this additional tube with my Grainfather that goes in the top as shown above. I'm guessing that should stop any grain getting where it shouldn't.


----------



## carniebrew

Is that cap only supposed to be used during the mash in though, like the little copper jobby we got with ours?


----------



## Parks

carniebrew said:


> Is that cap only supposed to be used during the mash in though, like the little copper jobby we got with ours?


Correct.

It also tells you how far you can extend the two-piece centre tube without pulling it apart.


----------



## carniebrew

welly2 said:


> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1436363861.816307.jpg
> 
> Got this additional tube with my Grainfather that goes in the top as shown above. I'm guessing that should stop any grain getting where it shouldn't.


I only just realised that top piece is actually a 3rd pipe...I thought it was just the cap, then realised it's inserted into the top of the top pipe. Does it actually push all the way down into the bottom overflow pipe?


----------



## welly2

carniebrew said:


> I only just realised that top piece is actually a 3rd pipe...I thought it was just the cap, then realised it's inserted into the top of the top pipe. Does it actually push all the way down into the bottom overflow pipe?


It does, yes. Not having yet brewed with the grainfather, I'm still not quite sure about the context of it and how it's better (if it is!) than how it worked previously, but all in good time! 

In the meantime, this is the problem I'm having with the silicone ring/seal:




It does this every time (bar one single time I was very, very careful), with or without starsan. The problem is the silicone ring is just not tight enough on the plate. It only overlaps the plate by a couple of millimetres.

I've been exchanging some messages with Grainfather about this on their facebook page. Suggested the following:




The ring needs to overlap the plate far more so it stays in place. A. being how it currently is, B. being how it probably should be to stop this problem of the seal coming off. But who knows, maybe it's just me and I've been unlucky with a dodgy batch of silicone rings and plates.


----------



## carniebrew

Does anyone know if they've changed the actual inner mash pipe design and bottom plate at all, to suit this new bottom plate ring? The way my GF is designed is a large bottom internal lip, and the bottom plate is only very marginally smaller in circumference than the mash pipe, so it takes a bit of wiggling to get it down to the bottom. I assume there's no way I'd be able to add a silicon ring to my bottom plate and expect it to still fit.


----------



## Parks

carniebrew said:


> I only just realised that top piece is actually a 3rd pipe...I thought it was just the cap, then realised it's inserted into the top of the top pipe. Does it actually push all the way down into the bottom overflow pipe?





welly2 said:


> It does, yes. Not having yet brewed with the grainfather, I'm still not quite sure about the context of it and how it's better (if it is!) than how it worked previously, but all in good time!


No, it doesn't. It's the same diameter as the bottom piece and sits on it.

I didn't use version 1 but assumably the first version was easily lost and a little fiddly. The new version not only blocks grain getting down the tube it tells you when the two-piece pipe is fully extended.


----------



## carniebrew

Sorry for all the q's Parks...just again to confirm...the top overflow pipe kinda just slides up and down this new blocker pipe...and when it hits the top you know it's fully extended, is that what you mean? If so that's nifty I guess.


----------



## welly2

carniebrew said:


> Does anyone know if they've changed the actual inner mash pipe design and bottom plate at all, to suit this new bottom plate ring? The way my GF is designed is a large bottom internal lip, and the bottom plate is only very marginally smaller in circumference than the mash pipe, so it takes a bit of wiggling to get it down to the bottom. I assume there's no way I'd be able to add a silicon ring to my bottom plate and expect it to still fit.


I get the impression, from the instructions, is the new top and bottom plate are slightly smaller. Certainly when I put them in the inner mash pipe/basket, the fit in without any problem at all and actually are quite loose inside, ie. they don't fit snug. So you wouldn't be able to add the silicone ring to your plates I would say.


----------



## Parks

carniebrew said:


> Sorry for all the q's Parks...just again to confirm...the top overflow pipe kinda just slides up and down this new blocker pipe...and when it hits the top you know it's fully extended, is that what you mean? If so that's nifty I guess.


Exactly.


----------



## HBHB

Pic shows the size difference between the old bottom plate (underneath) and the new bottom plate.


----------



## HBHB

This might show it well enough to get an idea of how it goes/fits in


----------



## GalBrew

welly2 said:


> I've been exchanging some messages with Grainfather about this on their facebook page. Suggested the following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 11659319_1662650917281227_4840143101044145927_n.jpg
> 
> The ring needs to overlap the plate far more so it stays in place. A. being how it currently is, B. being how it probably should be to stop this problem of the seal coming off. But who knows, maybe it's just me and I've been unlucky with a dodgy batch of silicone rings and plates.


That would make life much easier.


----------



## welly2

They're sending me a new pair of seals, so that's good! They've been very responsive. Good on 'em.


----------



## Mister Wilson

I'm getting back into brewing after a bit of a pause with family etc and decided to go down the grainfather route.

Just wondering what other bits of kit other GF users are using. I'll be using my old HLT for sparging at this stage but it looks like a hop spider would be a worthwhile addition.

Can't wait to get cracking on this as soon as HBHB gets it down to Melb.


----------



## meathead

I use a stainless hop spider and a blichmann thrumometer for wort out


----------



## carniebrew

MisterWilson said:


> I'm getting back into brewing after a bit of a pause with family etc and decided to go down the grainfather route.
> 
> Just wondering what other bits of kit other GF users are using. I'll be using my old HLT for sparging at this stage but it looks like a hop spider would be a worthwhile addition.
> 
> Can't wait to get cracking on this as soon as HBHB gets it down to Melb.


 
Not much, it's pretty all in one. I was using a hop sock, but bought one of these (keg king) hop spiders on Friday: http://www.fullpint.com.au/stainless-hop-spider/

The pic is deceiving, it's huge...nearly as long as the grainfather mash pipe itself. Looking forward to using it.

Oh, I did end up buying the sparge water urn too.


----------



## welly2

Just out of interest, is there any reason why you wouldn't use something like a rotating sparge arm with the Grainfather as opposed to the standard method? I wonder if you could get better efficiency from it? Not that efficiency is much of a problem with the Grainfather from what I've read.

Edit. actually from what I can see, sparging with the grainfather doesn't look vastly different to fly sparging anyway.


----------



## carniebrew

welly2 said:


> Just out of interest, is there any reason why you wouldn't use something like a rotating sparge arm with the Grainfather as opposed to the standard method? I wonder if you could get better efficiency from it? Not that efficiency is much of a problem with the Grainfather from what I've read.
> 
> Edit. actually from what I can see, sparging with the grainfather doesn't look vastly different to fly sparging anyway.


The rotation wouldn't do much I don't think, when you sparge the top plate spreads the water across the mash evenly. But I would love an auto-sparge setup, sparging is SO boring.


----------



## Mister Wilson

Thanks Carniebrew, off to Full Pint I go!


----------



## HBHB

MisterWilson said:


> Can't wait to get cracking on this as soon as HBHB gets it down to Melb.


Should only be 4 sleeps away


----------



## butisitart

stainless steel hop spider,,,, absolutely.
sparge?? i just do what the manual says - remember to pour from sparge pot and keep levels between the fin heights on the top grain filter. if you leave the water level to drip through the grain, you can wind up with a stuck sparge. i find my sparges go pretty quickly if i keep the water level right. in a practical sense, this means having sparge water ready to go the moment you lift the grain barrel out of the wort. you can't stuff around here. be on the money and get the sparge water flowing asap. your sparge will be easy. keep the water flow so it stays between the top filter and the tops of the fins. leave it too long (a minute or 3) and you'll have a slow or stuck sparge. i tend to do a full sparge in under 3 minutes if i'm on it straight away. then i lean the grain cannister on a 45 degree angle over the wort, to push the last of it out. and yeah - done the 3 minute gap and the consequential 15min sparge. think about it - water dragging through grain compacts it down, and makes it near impossible for more water to get through at some sort of efficiency rate.

the other tool i'd suggest is a decent length stainless steel paddle, but measure the paddle blade width first. don't forget you've got a retriculation pipe in the centre of your grain cylinder, so it will get in the way of a paddle that's too wide.

and when pouring grain in at the initial, gf supplies an utterly useless cap for the retriculation pipe. on my first use, i went sloshing around a few times in a pair of gloves trying to retrieve it from the wort. wrapping a slice of alfoil over the pipe works just fine. cheap, flexible and ditchable.

and my thoughts after 9 batches on the gf?? i wouldn't have it any other way. mag bloody nificent


----------



## carniebrew

3 minute sparge? Hell I'd be happy with that 15m sparge! How many litres are you sparging with? I'm sure it's taking me well over half an hour if I do 12 litres or so. I thought I was starting it pretty quickly, but perhaps not...will certainly try that next time.

I see GF have actually put out their own stainless mash paddle, I'm waiting on delivery of one currently: http://www.greatexpectations.co.nz/shop/Beer+Making/Grainfather/Grainfather+60cm+Stainless+Steel+Paddle.html


----------



## meathead

14 litre sparge takes me around 5 to 10 mins


----------



## Parks

meathead said:


> 14 litre sparge takes me around 5 to 10 mins


How are you going on your mash efficiency? I would think you are using a fairly coarse crush to sparge that fast.


----------



## meathead

All good
I set the rollers at around 1mm
I sparge straight away
I always hit gravity
I don't know if it makes a difference but if the water calculator says say 17 litres strike water I will add 1 and take 1 off sparge


----------



## welly2

Got my replacement silicone seals for the top and bottom plates. They're much better but they're not perfect. Playing about with it a bit earlier, I was finding the seals still occasionally comes off the plates. I'll have to send on more feedback for them.

Has anyone else got the new version of the Grainfather with the silicone seals and smaller plates? If so, anyone else having issues with it? It should be good now to have a brew day but will still need to be careful with those seals.


----------



## Mister Wilson

HBHB said:


> Should only be 4 sleeps away


You are a champion. Received this morning and will hopefully get a brew out on the weekend.


----------



## Buckskin

just wondering what efficiency you guys are getting from the GF....I follow the instructions in the manual to a T (60 minute mash at 67C, 15 minute mashout at 75C, sparge at 75C per GF calculations)

I cant get over 73% but have heard of people getting 80% with the GF...any idea why?


----------



## Parks

There are 3 things to look at here.

1. Grain crush - smaller generally gives more efficiency to a point but makes sparging more difficult/slower
2. Total grain vs water in the mash - the thicker the more difficult to be efficient
3. Efficiency != efficiency. A lot of people say "efficiency" referring to "Mash Efficiency" and others refer to "Brewhouse Efficiency". Mash efficiency should always be higher. Anyone using Beersmith would generally use Brewhouse efficiency as it's the number you see at the top of your recipe.

I have had a near 80% brewhouse efficiency batch which was a 5% APA which I crushed too fine so sparge was slow. My lowest Brewhouse efficiency was 63% for a 10% Russian Imperial Stout which I crushed too coarsely.


----------



## HBHB

Buckskin said:


> just wondering what efficiency you guys are getting from the GF....I follow the instructions in the manual to a T (60 minute mash at 67C, 15 minute mashout at 75C, sparge at 75C per GF calculations)
> 
> I cant get over 73% but have heard of people getting 80% with the GF...any idea why?


Over 100 brews down the track with our unit, which was a pre-release model (same version as all the early adopters got) averaged out is 76. We've had a couple of lower efficiencies, depending on how guys crushed their grain (a fair few have down their own). I believe the lowest efficiency has been about 62 or 63% on a 9.00kg batch which was way too coarse in the crush. The highest was in the high 80's. All of mine averaged out is a little over 76 when milled at the same settings.I think there's a bunch of figures from the earlier brews back several pages on here.

If you dial in for 76% on beersmith 2 , you'll be close to the sweet spot for the majority of 4.5-6.0 % abv beers. Once you get up over about 7.5% beers, expect the efficiency numbers to drop away a little bit.

See what Parks said above. Might be worth while to adjust your milling just a little, maybe bring your sparge temp up a little. I usually sparge with water up around the 80 degree mark. All that said, some guys get a little bogged down on efficiency trying to squeeze out as much as they can from their system. We're talking a few cents of overall gain per brew and most with 3V systems are happy with anything over 70% odd brewhouse efficiency. Personally I don't think it really matters in the overall scheme of things - as long as the beer is good and is at the right gravity as planned.


----------



## Buckskin

Thanks Parks and HBHB. Some great input. Been using brew house efficiency on Beersmith 2. I think it's down to milling and possibly increasing the sparge temp to 80. Appreciate your help.


----------



## Parks

HBHB said:


> Keep in mind that stainless steel is exactly that - it stains less.


Unfortunately that's not what that word means. Any usage of -less as a suffix means without, cannot or unable to.

The fact it's called stainless is more of a misnomer.

No I will fly off to correct many other wrong people on the internet!


----------



## butisitart

carniebrew - sorry delay - i were away..
i sparge off gf calculator, so generally 12-13 ish L.
my grain leans towards fine, cos buying milled. (a mill is next on shopping list).

i doing a 13L sparge in about 15mins time - will time it


12.9L sparge through 6.1 kg grain bill........ 2min 55sec.
thank christ for that - i thought maybe i were suffering a little bit of self delusional time compression.
but yep - clean sparge, water between the top plate and fin the whole time. done. :super:


----------



## carniebrew

I'm...stunned. Under 3 minutes to filter 13 litres of sparge water through 6kg of grain. Wow.


----------



## Gregos

It takes me average of 20-30mins to sparge a 5-6kg grainbill,and 40 mins for 7.8kg, 
I was with a guy last weekend , he uses rice hulls in his grain and the sparge for 5.8 kg still took 20mins but he reckons his efficiency is real good due to the evenness of the sparge.

I'm going to start using rice hulls from now on.


----------



## bradsbrew

Parks said:


> Unfortunately that's not what that word means. Any usage of -less as a suffix means without, cannot or unable to.
> 
> The fact it's called stainless is more of a misnomer.
> 
> *No* I will fly off to correct many other wrong people on the internet!


I think the word you were looking for is Now, Parks.


----------



## Parks

Dammit - I can't even sneaky edit!


----------



## HBHB

Parks said:


> Dammit - I can't even sneaky edit!


Is that like editing it sneakily?
h34r:


----------



## butisitart

carniebrew - 2min55 bona fide. note my sparging notes 15july, though. i clocked it this morning to see. clock ran from first to last drop of sparge water poured, keeping level between top grain filter plate and the tops of the fins as per gf instructions. i suspect the trick is to get sparge water rolling asap after lifting the grain cannister. my earlier stuck or slow sparges all occurred after waiting even a minute or two between lifting the grain and starting the sparge pour. A minute or 2 gap before sparging turns into 15min sparge, or 3-4 mins gap gives a stuck sparge and have to get the paddle out. or that's loosely my experience.

that were 5kg barrett burston pale, 1kg munich 1 and 100g crystal this morning - no rice hulls (but no wheat, either). 
sparge water temp 76-78C and wort at 76C for 4-5 mins. (there is some comment above about temperature effects.) me not knowledgeable on that side, but that's my standard gf sparge out temps.

would be very interested eg with gregos to see how you go if you note time gap between lifting the grain and starting the sparge, and variations thereof. my theory is that if the wort drops out of the grain with nothing sparging behind it, then the grain will compact down, slowing or choking any water trying to come through later. if sparge water comes in straight away, then the grain will continue to get filtered, but won't have the chance to compact down. thus, easy sparge. gf instructions allude to that, without actually spelling it out. but yeah - i'm hitting around 3 mins pretty consistently now.


----------



## carniebrew

Cheers for the detailed info, will definitely give it a go next brew. I'm keen to change only 1 thing at a time to see which has the biggest effect...so next brew I'll do the insta-sparge after lifting the malt pipe...then after that I'll increase my roller width to 1.3mm (mashmaster mini mill). I've also been told the speed of my drill could be making a big difference to how my grain ends up...I've been doing full bore, so at some stage will back the speed off and see how it goes.


----------



## butisitart

just rang my supplier - all my grain comes through at 1.1mm. (i had no idea). would be highly interested in your observations on what you do on the next brew, and if it changes things. oh - while we've got a grammar thing running here, you must be old. i see you can spell 'definitely'


----------



## carniebrew

Problem is 1.1mm doesn't mean much if you're not comparing to the same mill at different widths. One mill can produce very different results from another model with the rollers at the same gap.


----------



## butisitart

that buggers that part of the equation. i see you tactically withdrew from referring to the duration of your foray on this lovely planet. chapeau. :icon_cheers:


----------



## carniebrew

LOL. Yes, i'm old. Let's just say I'm a child of the 70's....


----------



## butisitart

according to edward albee, who wrote 'who's afraid of virginia woolfe?', you're only as old as the woman you feel. but then, he also commented that the way to a man's heart is through his wife's stomach. he had a few scorchers. but this is not gf. me a child of the 50s, so i have a self ordained right to meander on clearly defined topic discussions. bit like hogging the front of the queue at the servo spilling out dad jokes in the hope that the 18yo girl behind the counter will fall in love with you and leave her 5 kids and husband, completely oblivious to the fact that the laptop bag you're toting only holds a colostomy bag and industrial quantities of warfarin. i might stop sampling my homebrew.


----------



## Coodgee

Going to pick up my grainfather tomorrow. I'm thinking of doing a recipe based on the 'sticks and stones' one from the recipe database as my first brew with the new rig. 

So if there was one word of advise you could give for a first time grainfather user what would it be?


----------



## carniebrew

Coodgee said:


> Going to pick up my grainfather tomorrow. I'm thinking of doing a recipe based on the 'sticks and stones' one from the recipe database as my first brew with the new rig.
> 
> So if there was one word of advise you could give for a first time grainfather user what would it be?


Kinda depends where you're coming from. If like me you were doing BIAB with no sparge, and you're planning to sparge with your GF, then my advice would be make sure you start the sparge as soon as you lift the malt pipe! Not that I've done it myself yet, but if it works out it'll be the best advice I've been given in a while.


----------



## tugger

Hop sock


----------



## Coodgee

carniebrew said:


> Kinda depends where you're coming from. If like me you were doing BIAB with no sparge, and you're planning to sparge with your GF, then my advice would be make sure you start the sparge as soon as you lift the malt pipe! Not that I've done it myself yet, but if it works out it'll be the best advice I've been given in a while.


I've had a break from brewing for a long time but I've done plenty of 3V brews back in the day. I also read that advise to begin sparging as soon as you lift the grain out of the water so I will definitely look to do that. I don't want to be standing there with a jug for half an hour while the water trickles through. 



tugger said:


> Hop sock


ok. I have a couple of hop bags, do you think it would ok to just throw them into the boil and then fish them out before chilling?


----------



## carniebrew

Coodgee said:


> ok. I have a couple of hop bags, do you think it would ok to just throw them into the boil and then fish them out before chilling?


I was using a hop sock pegged (literally) to the top of the kettle, but just bought a KK hop spider which will just hang over the side now.


----------



## carniebrew

Coodgee said:


> Going to pick up my grainfather tomorrow. I'm thinking of doing a recipe based on the 'sticks and stones' one from the recipe database as my first brew with the new rig.
> 
> So if there was one word of advise you could give for a first time grainfather user what would it be?


Oh and little things like remember to switch the element to "Mash" once you reach your mash temp, and back to Boil after mash out.

Make sure you tighten ALL the connections on your counter flow chiller regularly, too many reports (and personal experience) of hoses flying off at the worst moments.

And make sure your bottom plate for the malt pipe is flat, mine turned up pretty skewiff and I got a fair bit of grain in my first couple of brews. After spending some time bending it into as flat a shape as possible I've had no issues.


----------



## slcmorro

Coodgee said:


> ok. I have a couple of hop bags, do you think it would ok to just throw them into the boil and then fish them out before chilling?


Yes. But why not peg them onto the side of the GF?


----------



## Coodgee

seems like it would get better hop utilization to have them rolling around in the boil. (based on 0 actual knowledge haha).


----------



## slcmorro

You can have the hops roll around free if you want, but I think the difference between being bagged or spidered would be extremely minimal at best, if non completely non existent.


----------



## Feldon

slcmorro said:


> You can have the hops roll around free if you want, but I think the difference between being bagged or spidered would be extremely minimal at best, if non completely non existent.


Everybody knows that spidered hops have a lower sperm count. :unsure:


----------



## carniebrew

Depends if you use boxers or briefs as your hop sock...


----------



## Coodgee

so what is the advantage of the spider? not having to fish around for the hop bag at the end of the boil?


----------



## slcmorro

That, and they'll generally hold a lot more hops than a bag. Easier to use and clean also.


----------



## carniebrew

Coodgee said:


> so what is the advantage of the spider? not having to fish around for the hop bag at the end of the boil?


Have you ever cleaned a hop sock? Bloody PITA compared to a metal hop spider which you can pretty much just spray rinse. Otherwise not much. You could use a BIAB bag for a hop sock if it was just a space issue.


----------



## butisitart

spider v sock -
you're not untying and tying bits with a spider. you turn the garden hose on it when you're done, and it's clean. you can throw 2, 3 or even 16 hop adds straight into the thing without having to bag them up, knot them down and fish them out later. at 200 - 300 microns spider mesh, bugger all hops escapes into the wort, as opposed to any sock i've used. a stainless steel spider is sub $30, and lasts, as opposed to socks which cost about $5 each. if you do 3 hop additions, that's $15 worth of socks that you have to individually load and then clean. and mine always seem to deteriorate at a rate of knots. nah - give me a spider. like going from a copper and stick to a fully automated washing machine. ultimately, though, sock, spider or loose, the hops are still rolling around in the boil. it's just a case of whether or not they're confined to one pocket of the boil environment. bit like a teabag, or loose.

throwing hops straight into the boil in a gf, my experience (and general, from what i can gather) is that the gf filter ain't built for it, (in spite of the demonstration on the youtube videos) so you're going to wind up with a lot of green gunk choking your retriculation system. may be harmless, but if you've got a new gf, it's a bit disturbing when you hear your pump gasping for air. the filter is good for grain and that very modest amount of hops that might escape from a spider, but the whole design is probably not meant to have a flock of hops rampaging around on the loose. better to round 'em up and keep 'em in a paddock. not to mention that they then wind up in your fantastic wort chiller, potentially making it smell like, well, like carniebrew's hopsock boxer things. and we don't wanna drink THAT.

for a one word piece of advice - you'll get a little bottle cap to put on the top of your retriculation pipe to stop grain falling into the pipe as you introduce grain to wort. throw it out. get a chunk of alfoil and wrap that over instead. that does the job perfickly. use the cap and you'll keep bumping it off, then fishing for it in ever hotter wort and greater grain mass.

oh - ps.. i note you're in greenslopes - craftbrewer at capalaba has spiders sub $30. not advertised on their website for some reason, but i got mine after spotting them in the shop one day. (i shop between them and the guys at annerley - i find craftbrewer good for grains and annerley good for everything else)

the other thing is - i'd think about beersmith software - or similar, if only to measure hops input. my first few brews were a bit hit and miss - bland or hopped out. my more recent are just hop balanced stunners. the downside with all this is that i notice that the brews are way green and unbalanced for about 3-4 weeks, so there is a certain amount of tapping the clock and gazing at the calendar before they show their true colours. but man, it's worth it.
but yeah - probably none of us are masters at gf yet - for mine - i just get better each brew on it. there is a learning curve, but it's already consistently churning out the best brews i've done. so enjoy and keep us posted, especially with any discoveries. cheers :icon_chickcheers:


----------



## slcmorro

butisitart said:


> for a one word piece of advice - you'll get a little bottle cap to put on the top of your retriculation pipe to stop grain falling into the pipe as you introduce grain to wort. throw it out. get a chunk of alfoil and wrap that over instead. that does the job perfickly. use the cap and you'll keep bumping it off, then fishing for it in ever hotter wort and greater grain mass.


FYI - National Homebrew (no affiliation, just happy with the service!) sells their GFs with some handy little free of charge add-ons including a Perlick tap cover, which sits perfectly snug over the wort return pipe in the malt pipe.


----------



## HBHB

slcmorro said:


> FYI - National Homebrew (no affiliation, just happy with the service!) sells their GFs with some handy little free of charge add-ons including a Perlick tap cover, which sits perfectly snug over the wort return pipe in the malt pipe.


New/Current version has a drop in metal pipe blocker that does a good job, so the tap covers aren't required any more.


----------



## tugger

Does anyone know where I can buy an overflow attachment, the top piece that locks the plate in. 
Would prefer somewhere in Sydney.


----------



## butisitart

might have to go direct to gf for an overflow, and they'd be able to tell you if sydney has any. there's also a list of suppliers on their website. neither of my 2 local gf dealers have got spare parts yet. (i not in sydney, but you may be in for a long hunt if you go down that road) 
how did you manage to lose that?? throwing the top sliding stem of the reticulation pipe out with the mash grain seems to be the popular way of stuffing up what otherwise would be a perfectly good day. which reminds me. i need to go and scientifically examine another munich dunkels.
It's my life calling, and i tend to it purely for the beneficial furtherment of humanity. :chug:


----------



## GalBrew

carniebrew said:


> Cheers for the detailed info, will definitely give it a go next brew. I'm keen to change only 1 thing at a time to see which has the biggest effect...so next brew I'll do the insta-sparge after lifting the malt pipe...then after that I'll increase my roller width to 1.3mm (mashmaster mini mill). I've also been told the speed of my drill could be making a big difference to how my grain ends up...I've been doing full bore, so at some stage will back the speed off and see how it goes.


Full bore is great for BIAB, but at high speeds you will have less chance of keeping your husks fully intact decreasing the porosity of your grain bed.


----------



## tugger

butisitart said:


> might have to go direct to gf for an overflow, and they'd be able to tell you if sydney has any. there's also a list of suppliers on their website. neither of my 2 local gf dealers have got spare parts yet. (i not in sydney, but you may be in for a long hunt if you go down that road)
> how did you manage to lose that?? throwing the top sliding stem of the reticulation pipe out with the mash grain seems to be the popular way of stuffing up what otherwise would be a perfectly good day. which reminds me. i need to go and scientifically examine another munich dunkels.
> It's my life calling, and i tend to it purely for the beneficial furtherment of humanity. :chug:


Yes I tossed it in the green waste bin never to be seen again.


----------



## carniebrew

I wouldn't be too worried about that overflow attachment jobbie, I do a lot of low gravity (small grain bill) Berliner Weisse brews where the overflow pipe doesn't push all the way down to the top plate/grain bed, so that little adaptor doesn't do squat on those brews, and I don't have any issues.


----------



## tugger

I have been tossing the top plate on with no o ring and putting a screen over the recurc to stop grain going in the pot.


----------



## Coodgee

My sparge went without a hitch, I started sparging while the mash runnings were still draining out of the grain quite loudly, and I actually had trouble keeping the water level above the top plate (filling jugs out of the HLT). 

I noticed that after about half an hour the wort flowing back into the tun was crystal clear. But after sparging the wort was much cloudier (lifting the grain basket out of the wort as per instructions). It would be nice to transfer crystal clear wort into the boil. Has anyone tried leaving the grain basket in place and redirecting the wort out of the pump into a second vessel while simultaneously sparging by replacing the wort running out the pump with sparge water? I am thinking this would keep the grain bed intact and hopefully you could pump ~28 litres through the grain bed and out into the secondary vessel, all crystal clear. Then this could be pumped/tipped back into the grain father for the boil. 

Also, I thought the hot break didn't really settle out while I was cooling the wort after the boil because of the constant circulation. maybe it would settle out more if I ran the wort down the side of the vessel on the opposite side to the pump inlet and maybe a bit slower?. or maybe I could extend the hose so that it does half a coil around the bottom of the vessel, which might create a bit of a whirlpool and get the hot break settled in the middle. 

What do you guys think?


----------



## carniebrew

How long did your sparge take Coodgee?


----------



## WhiteLomu

tugger said:


> I have been tossing the top plate on with no o ring and putting a screen over the recurc to stop grain going in the pot.


A tea strainer does the job. Sometimes quite a bit of grain escapes the bottom of the malt pipe and keeps running through the system. It ought to be considered for one of the upgrades.


----------



## butisitart

there but for the meddling of wife who helps me brew, go i. i nearly lost the top sliding stem on about my 2nd brew, then i read on here where somebody DID lose one. that one is easily done - upend the cylinder to empty the mash grain and the stem slips off, into the grain never to be seen again. me lucky the wife asked me where it was, and it got retrieved.
i now have a level of paranoia about losing the stem at about the same level as my paranoia about leaving the receiving fermenter tap on when bulk priming. had to get the carpet shampooed after that one.
i feel for you - bugger of a thing to lose cos you can't replace it at kmart or somewhere convenient. you may be able to rig up a temporary thing with 2cm of pvc and some silicon gel, although i don't know how hot wort handles pvc. or cut up a plastic food funnel where the stem meets the cone. don't know about the plastic there either.
hope you post on your replacement experience.

ps.. whoops - didn't see all the other fixes before i submitted this. sorry guys :unsure:


----------



## butisitart

Coodgee said:


> My sparge went without a hitch, I started sparging while the mash runnings were still draining out of the grain quite loudly, and I actually had trouble keeping the water level above the top plate (filling jugs out of the HLT).
> 
> I noticed that after about half an hour the wort flowing back into the tun was crystal clear. But after sparging the wort was much cloudier (lifting the grain basket out of the wort as per instructions). It would be nice to transfer crystal clear wort into the boil. Has anyone tried leaving the grain basket in place and redirecting the wort out of the pump into a second vessel while simultaneously sparging by replacing the wort running out the pump with sparge water? I am thinking this would keep the grain bed intact and hopefully you could pump ~28 litres through the grain bed and out into the secondary vessel, all crystal clear. Then this could be pumped/tipped back into the grain father for the boil.
> 
> yeah - how long did the sparge take?? sounds good if you had trouble keeping the water up.
> 
> my uninformed question on the clear wort bit is this... my wort overflow is often crystal clear after 1/2 hour. if sparging makes it cloudier (and it does), then (and this is the bit i don't understand), wouldn't the simultaneous sparging still pump cloudy wort into the mix?? where would the separation lie?? i get what you're doing, but i don't understand the science.
> 
> to date, i haven't overly worried about whirlpooling the hotbreak. and there is usually a load of debris in the last litre on transfer. i tip the gf through a fine strainer into the fermenter at that point. no liquid lost and not much that didn't go through the chller. by the time it finishes fermenting, i find the rest has pretty much settled into trub.
> 
> one point, though - i always leave just enough wort to cover the base of the gf - then hit anything stuck to the floor of the gf with a stainless steel egg lifter. gets it immediately clean without fear of cemented roast grain dust glued to the gf. for some reason, this works, but if you completely empty the gf and then try to clean the floor, it's out with the bi-carb soda and vinegar, and that ain't fun.
> 
> if you do go down the whirlpooling transfer and tube thing, pls report - we all on a learning curve with this beast.


----------



## Coodgee

butisitart said:


> yeah - how long did the sparge take?? sounds good if you had trouble keeping the water up.
> 
> didn't time it but not long at all. about the time it took to fill my 1 litre jug from the HLT and pour it into the grain father 16 times. About halfway through I realised it would be much quicker to just dunk the jug in the top of the HLT rather than run it out of the HLT tap! I got my grain milled by craftbrewer, it seemed like a pretty average crush, bit of flower but not too fine.
> 
> 
> 
> my uninformed question on the clear wort bit is this... my wort overflow is often crystal clear after 1/2 hour. if sparging makes it cloudier (and it does), then (and this is the bit i don't understand), wouldn't the simultaneous sparging still pump cloudy wort into the mix?? where would the separation lie?? i get what you're doing, but i don't understand the science.
> 
> what I am suggesting is that I don't lift the grain basket up to sparge. Lifting up the basket seems to disturb the grain bed and sucks through a heap of particles. If I just leave the grain bed where it is and redirect the pump outlet into a third vessel I should be able to maintain the filtration properties of the grain bed. So I will replace the recirculating wort with sparge water and it should flow through the grain bed and come out of the pump outlet all nice and filtered. It might get a bit dirty for the last few litres but I am thinking it would be an improvement in wort clarify going into the kettle.
> 
> 
> to date, i haven't overly worried about whirlpooling the hotbreak. and there is usually a load of debris in the last litre on transfer. i tip the gf through a fine strainer into the fermenter at that point. no liquid lost and not much that didn't go through the chller. by the time it finishes fermenting, i find the rest has pretty much settled into trub.
> 
> are your beers turning out nice and clear? I have a bit of a personal goal to try to get nice clean clear wort going into the fermenter, I feel like it will produce better pils, ESBs etc. My first beer was a wheat hopped with galaxy so I don't really care too much about clarity obviously but the next one I do is going to be a pils with california lager yeast so there will be nowhere for haze and off flavours to hide. Trying to take my brewing to the next level this time around!!
> 
> one point, though - i always leave just enough wort to cover the base of the gf - then hit anything stuck to the floor of the gf with a stainless steel egg lifter. gets it immediately clean without fear of cemented roast grain dust glued to the gf. for some reason, this works, but if you completely empty the gf and then try to clean the floor, it's out with the bi-carb soda and vinegar, and that ain't fun.
> 
> I noted the instructions say to give the bottom of the vessel a scrape with a mash paddle a few times during the boil, but I don't have such a paddle yet. I find a stainless serving spoon from the kitchen makes a pretty good mash paddle but not for scraping the bottom of the vessel. no issues on clean up though and the boil rolled nicely.
> 
> if you do go down the whirlpooling transfer and tube thing, pls report - we all on a learning curve with this beast.
> 
> I'm going to try the alternative sparge method next brew for sure. I even have a spare urn coming soon so I can heat the runnings while I sparge. I'll be sure to report all results. I'm tempted to brew tonight but I can see myself going to bed at 1am. maybe if I can get home from work by 5pm and mash in by 5:30... mmmm...
Click to expand...


----------



## HBHB

Coodgee said:


> My sparge went without a hitch, I started sparging while the mash runnings were still draining out of the grain quite loudly, and I actually had trouble keeping the water level above the top plate (filling jugs out of the HLT).
> 
> I noticed that after about half an hour the wort flowing back into the tun was crystal clear. But after sparging the wort was much cloudier (lifting the grain basket out of the wort as per instructions). It would be nice to transfer crystal clear wort into the boil. Has anyone tried leaving the grain basket in place and redirecting the wort out of the pump into a second vessel while simultaneously sparging by replacing the wort running out the pump with sparge water? I am thinking this would keep the grain bed intact and hopefully you could pump ~28 litres through the grain bed and out into the secondary vessel, all crystal clear. Then this could be pumped/tipped back into the grain father for the boil.
> 
> Also, I thought the hot break didn't really settle out while I was cooling the wort after the boil because of the constant circulation. maybe it would settle out more if I ran the wort down the side of the vessel on the opposite side to the pump inlet and maybe a bit slower?. or maybe I could extend the hose so that it does half a coil around the bottom of the vessel, which might create a bit of a whirlpool and get the hot break settled in the middle.
> 
> What do you guys think?


If you feel the need to clear the wort for some reason, then consider recirculating through the pump and into a Hop Spider while you're bringing it up to the boil. That'll do it.

Martin


----------



## Coodgee

Hi Martin, didn't realise a hop spider would provide that level of filtration. I have been thinking of getting one anyway so I might give that a go. Are you suggesting that clearing the wort is unnecessary or undesirable? It's fairly common practice I would have thought, with a 3V system a lot of people will routinely recirculate the first runnings until it clears up, for instance.


----------



## carniebrew

Us old BIAB'ers haven't worried about clear wort into the fermenter in ages. It all settles out over time anyway, especially if you're using whirlfoc or similar in the boil.

I noticed my wort is much more clear since I started using the Grainfather, but I haven't noticed any difference in the quality or clarity of the end beer.


----------



## HBHB

Coodgee said:


> Hi Martin, didn't realise a hop spider would provide that level of filtration. I have been thinking of getting one anyway so I might give that a go. Are you suggesting that clearing the wort is unnecessary or undesirable? It's fairly common practice I would have thought, with a 3V system a lot of people will routinely recirculate the first runnings until it clears up, for instance.


They're fine enough to remove a lot of the debris that is visible. You'll see what I mean when you see it.

I couldn't be arsed personally, but for some folk, it's a point of pride or something.


----------



## kaiserben

I'm thinking about adding a hop spider to my brewing arsenal - to replace hop socks (because I hate cleaning them, and like the idea that it's easier to dump every boil/steep hop addition into a single spider without fiddling about. Plus people seem to suggest it holds more debris than socks. 

But what do hop spider users do when dry hopping?


----------



## rawlus

There's a grainfather blog article i believe where they did side by side brews of clear wort versus wort with some trub in it. The fermentation with trub produced the overall better tasting beer in blind testing. I don't think it's important to have crystal clear wort going into the fermenter and it could actually be detrimental to the final product. If you want fine beers, temp control through fermentation and having patience I believe play a far more significant role. Just my $0.02

Here's the experiment article: http://www.grainfather.com/#!weekly-mash/cetx/post/4097066291833008005


----------



## carniebrew

kaiserben said:


> I'm thinking about adding a hop spider to my brewing arsenal - to replace hop socks (because I hate cleaning them, and like the idea that it's easier to dump every boil/steep hop addition into a single spider without fiddling about. Plus people seem to suggest it holds more debris than socks.
> 
> But what do hop spider users do when dry hopping?


Still a hop sock for dry hopping for me, although I did buy some stainless tea strainer ball thingies which I must get around to using at some stage.


----------



## Coodgee

rawlus said:


> There's a grainfather blog article i believe where they did side by side brews of clear wort versus wort with some trub in it. The fermentation with trub produced the overall better tasting beer in blind testing. I don't think it's important to have crystal clear wort going into the fermenter and it could actually be detrimental to the final product. If you want fine beers, temp control through fermentation and having patience I believe play a far more significant role. Just my $0.02
> 
> Here's the experiment article: http://www.grainfather.com/#!weekly-mash/cetx/post/4097066291833008005


that's very interesting. certainly strong evidence in favour of tranfering plenty of trub!


----------



## butisitart

lots of food for thought here coodgee et al. thanks for all your explanation. especially the separation bit.
without having done it, but it sounds pretty tempting as an experiment, is the pump through hopspider. sounds logical and easy. and yep - hopspider stops pretty much everything down to 200-300 microns. i assume you then rinse the spider and you're ready to throw hops at it on the boil. cool.
going with rawlus (above), my brews always clear (to my satisfaction) on a 2week rest in the fermenter. only ever used finings on the first brew i made. but - personal preference. if i want a really clear ale, i just go the saf-04. not overly scientific, but it works. and i like the big flavour of uncleansed beer. bit like ladies who don't shave their armpits. perfickly natural and the sort of thing only real men appreciate.
i wonder if a fixation on clear beer is something we've gotten used to through sanitised corporate brewing. like getting milk from the woolies fridge instead of a cow. nothing to do with the real deal.

but the pump through spider sounds pretty labour free - so i'll give it an experimental whirl in my next pale brew just to see how much comes through, and how it tastes and looks at the other end.


----------



## Wazzac

kaiserben said:


> But what do hop spider users do when dry hopping?


Hi Guys, I'm a newbie here, not sure what links we can post but I use stainless dry hop filter canisters tied to the lid of my kegs - basically a mini hop spider with a screw on lid ... I imported them from a place in Utah

cheers

Wazza


----------



## carniebrew

Link away Wazza. These are the ones I have, but I need to find some in a larger size given how much I dry hop with these days:

http://www.kitchenwaredirect.com.au/Avanti-Stainless-Steel-Mesh-Tea-Ball-4cm

Something like this: http://www.amazon.com/Extra-Large-Jumbo-Size-Twist-Lock-Infuser-Stainless/dp/B004X4LGIO


----------



## rawlus

Like Wazzac, mine is from Utah Biodiesel Supply. They have a large variety of options
https://utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php


----------



## wambesi

Well I still usually drop straight in the fermenter with no sock or anything else to contain the hops. 

They settle out during cold crashing and never had a problem so far.


----------



## butisitart

just doing a cost analysis of my gf -- i keep an excel of all my costs v amount of beer produced, projected out to carton (=24x375ml) price. admittedly i had a lot of background stuff like fermenters, scales, but..
cost of gf plus all ingredients, plus hopspider, starsan and beersmith, average cost of all cartons brewed on gf after :
1 brew ..... $412.33
5 brews ...... $91.43
10 brews.... $54.74
15 brews.....$39.94
17 brews.... $36.13

i hit equivalent retail price at about brew 12, and at brew 17 (which is where i am now), that's equivalent to a mid strength special price at auntie dans. and i don't shop for the cheapest grains. given the difference in quality, and that my price is going to keep coming down, nuff said, i think.


----------



## nads

I have a question re efficiency. I'm on my 4th Grainfather brew and so far have not bothered to work this out. My next brew recipe suggests to add water to 28 Liters if volume after sparging is below this. Do I take an OG reading straight after sparging or after adding water if needed to make up the 28 liters.


----------



## Coodgee

So I tried sparging without lifting the grain basket up as described a page or so ago. The runnings were quite clear using this method. However when I removed the grain basket I noticed there was plenty of "trub" material in the bottom of the grainfather. I didn't tip this out, I just poured my collected wort on top, which probably negated the point of the exercise. I don't think it was worth the effort and probably won't do it again. I did notice when I was pumping the cooled wort into the fermentor it was brilliantly clear most of the time. 

on another note, my method of aerating the wort is simply to hold the outlet pipe of the chiller up as high as possible and let the wort fall down into the fermentor. This creates a huge amount of foam so I am hoping it should be adequate aeration.


----------



## Coodgee

nads said:


> I have a question re efficiency. I'm on my 4th Grainfather brew and so far have not bothered to work this out. My next brew recipe suggests to add water to 28 Liters if volume after sparging is below this. Do I take an OG reading straight after sparging or after adding water if needed to make up the 28 liters.


When sparging, if you look down through the gap between the lifted grain basket and the side of the main vessel , you can actually see the litre graduations on the side of the grainfather, so you can just keep sparging until you have collected enough wort and then immediately remove the grain basket. This should get you maximum efficiency. Every extra litre that washes through the grain is adding more sugars into wort. If you top up the boiler with water straight out of the HLT then that is water that could have gone through the grain bed and washed out some more malt sugars. 

But to answer your original question, you can take a pre-boil gravity reading before or after the top up, you just need to use the corresponding wort volume to do the efficiency calculation, which is a measure of how much sugar you have extracted from your grain as a proportion of the maximum potential amount that is there to extract. So to work out how much sugar you have, it's just the concentration times the volume - hence you must use the volume that corresponds to the SG reading. if you add additional water you would want to give it a good stir first so that the gravity of the whole solution evens out. This pre-boil gravity and volume allows you to calculate your _mash_ efficiency. 

The original gravity (OG) calculation usually refers to the the reading you take once the wort is in the fermentor and you use the volume in the fermentor and the OG reading to work out your brewhouse efficiency - that is, the total efficiency of your process from the amount of potential sugars in the grain to the amount that ends up in your fermentor. 

That's how I understand it anway, more experienced brewers may correct me.


----------



## carniebrew

nads said:


> I have a question re efficiency. I'm on my 4th Grainfather brew and so far have not bothered to work this out. My next brew recipe suggests to add water to 28 Liters if volume after sparging is below this. Do I take an OG reading straight after sparging or after adding water if needed to make up the 28 liters.


It depends on what's more important to you...the volume/batch size of your beer, or the gravity/abv. I prefer the latter.....i.e. I don't care if I end up with 23 litres or 20 in the fermenter, I'd prefer to hit my target OG/FG, so I get the strength of beer I was going for.

So after my sparge I'll remove the grain basket and take a gravity reading with my refractometer. If for some reason I'm over gravity, I'll dilute accordingly. If i'm under, I can add dextrose or DME to adjust, or just boil longer. Although I've never been under with the Grainfather, I set my efficiency to 78% in BeerSmith as it's easier to add top up water than to add gravity.


----------



## tugger

I came across this a few days ago. 
I like the unit and don't mind paying the high price but check out how this guy aerates his wert. 

http://youtu.be/UtsPy6-6R4M


----------



## HeavyNova

Just got one of these units on the weekend. Can't wait to fire it up!

The chiller that came with mine is on a bit of a lean so it doesn't sit that nicely on the lid, as it is supposed to. I have a plate chiller though and was toying with the idea of a hoprocket at some stage in the near future too. With both of those using 1/2" fitting, has anyone looked into how easy it to upgrade the output on the grainfather to accept 1/2" fittings?

I've seen a video somewhere on youtube where a guy has swapped out the ball valve and added a quick disconnect for easy on swapping of recirculation arm and counterflow chiller.


----------



## wobbly

HeavyNova said:


> I've seen a video somewhere on youtube where a guy has swapped out the ball valve and added a quick disconnect for easy on swapping of recirculation arm and counterflow chiller.


See page 4 on this topic from the Braumeister forum for how someone else has done it using quick disconnects https://forum.braumeisters.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=490&start=45

Cheers

Wobbly


----------



## arzaman

Hi
The Open ArdBir team is working to adapt the single vessel BIAB/Rims controller developed during last two years to GrainFather

Few guys around the world has already replaced the original controller (simple ST200 thermo regulator with on/off power control) with ArdBir that allow *full process controls in all steps*, recipe management, PID /PWM power control, pump control plus all other ArdBir feature with complete set up of all unit and brewing parameters...it's a huge step head compared the original controller at low cost / low effort

and is all open and free !

The controller from integration and HW perspective using the specific All in One board is almost plug and play, we are preparing a full guide and an optimized settings for GrainFather

Here some sample picture from one Italian guy supporting ArdBir project that has performed conversion


----------



## Coodgee

it's only a matter of time before MJs release a more programmable controller you would think...

on another note, my next brew is going to be a Jacked Up APA kit that I got for free with my grainfather. It consists of 4.9 Maris Otter and 380g Crystal. Then pacific Jade for bittering, columbus, citra and centennial added at flame out and citra centennial and summit to dry hop. It's a pretty big beer with 256grams of hops all up. Kind of takes a bit of the fun out of it not designing my own beer but it will be nice to try. The only change I think I will make is to swap out the MJ M44 West Coast for US05. I have heard some bad stories about M44. Hopefully I can still get the US05 to drop clear. I have a lager in the fermenting fridge so hopefully timing works out and the fridge will be available for a couple of days to cold crash.


----------



## tugger

I have my sparky making me a cord to plug the heating element into a keg king fermentation controller so I can have 0.1 degree temperature resolution for the mash. 
Still using the gf controller for the pump and boil. 
It's just a female plug and a male wall plug.


----------



## arzaman

Coodgee said:


> it's only a matter of time before MJs release a more programmable controller you would think...


I would not be so surprised to see in a near future an official premium controller “cloning” ArdBir
Quite difficult to imagine a control system for single vessel/BIAB process with additional features and functions not present in current ArdBir release  

Davide


----------



## Gorgar

tugger said:


> I came across this a few days ago.
> I like the unit and don't mind paying the high price but check out how this guy aerates his wert.
> 
> http://youtu.be/UtsPy6-6R4M


Seems like a great solution, The one I went with is a little less userfriendly but for 250 SEK (~40 AUD) it is very good and fits right in the Grainfather without modification since it is the same form factor as the STC-200.
It is a (programmable, bought one from China that didn't have the programming points) STC-1000 with a modified firmware that allows for stage mashing, hop additions and so on, more info on this (opensource) project can be found on https://github.com/matsstaff/stc1000p-ovbsc

Where I bought it they also sell an already modified version if you don't want or is able to do it yourself, then it is 400SEK (~65 AUD)


----------



## McMelloW

I am looking for a modified STC-1000+ OVBSC for some time. Where can I buy a piec like this?


----------



## Coodgee

Gorgar said:


> Where I bought it they also sell an already modified version if you don't want or is able to do it yourself, then it is 400SEK (~65 AUD)


Could you please share the URL? sounds like a good upgrade and I can't be bothered effing around with programming firmware...


----------



## arzaman

Enjoy this nice video of a brew day with Grainfather and Open ArdBir controller (courteously from cherryphilip )

http://www.magisto.com/embed/aFEFPVAVQj0_BhBiCzE?l=vem&o=w&c=b

Davide


----------



## HeavyNova

wobbly said:


> See page 4 on this topic from the Braumeister forum for how someone else has done it using quick disconnects https://forum.braumeisters.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=490&start=45
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Wobbly


Thanks wobbly, I had a look at that but I still don't know if it's simple to do on the GF. Does anyone know if a 3/8" fitting will screw on to the GF outlet?

I'm hoping it's that simple but I don't have an 3/8" female fitting to test it.


----------



## Gorgar

Coodgee said:


> Could you please share the URL? sounds like a good upgrade and I can't be bothered effing around with programming firmware...





McMelloW said:


> I am looking for a modified STC-1000+ OVBSC for some time. Where can I buy a piec like this?


I don't know the rules for sharing store pages, if I'm breaking them please just remove this and I'll PM instead 

It is a Swedish page so I'm not sure about the freight costs and time, it's a small package so it shouldn't be too expensive!
The address is: http://www.storagrytor.se/s/stc-1000 
Translated to english: http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=en&a=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.storagrytor.se%2Fs%2Fstc-1000

The STC-1000+ is the one for fermentation and the STC-1000 Brew is the OVBSC version.


----------



## dschoemaker

Rawlus,

What size did you get?




rawlus said:


> Like Wazzac, mine is from Utah Biodiesel Supply. They have a large variety of options
> https://utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php


----------



## rawlus

dschoemaker said:


> Rawlus,
> 
> What size did you get?


Brewing Filter - 6 x 14 - straight hangers (Continental US - Ships from Michigan)
Item# CAFBrew6x14straight , Micron Rating: 300 Micron

It fits my old pot but I think will fit the grainfather as well. Waiting on delivery.


----------



## dschoemaker

Mine arrived today (Chicago area). Let me know how it works in the Grainfather, will put it on my list of stuff I want.

Dave



rawlus said:


> Brewing Filter - 6 x 14 - straight hangers (Continental US - Ships from Michigan)
> Item# CAFBrew6x14straight , Micron Rating: 300 Micron
> 
> It fits my old pot but I think will fit the grainfather as well. Waiting on delivery.


----------



## HeavyNova

HeavyNova said:


> Thanks wobbly, I had a look at that but I still don't know if it's simple to do on the GF. Does anyone know if a 3/8" fitting will screw on to the GF outlet?
> 
> I'm hoping it's that simple but I don't have an 3/8" female fitting to test it.


Anyone adapt their Grainfather outlet to 1/2" for use with other chillers or a hopback with 1/2" fittings? I've tried checking directly with the Grainfather guys but I still haven't got a reply from them.

I've search the web for hours and I'm surprised to see find basically nothing on this...


----------



## meathead

Here is a link to a video about upgrade kits

http://youtu.be/v0g0IMniMVI


----------



## rawlus

HeavyNova said:


> Anyone adapt their Grainfather outlet to 1/2" for use with other chillers or a hopback with 1/2" fittings? I've tried checking directly with the Grainfather guys but I still haven't got a reply from them.
> 
> I've search the web for hours and I'm surprised to see find basically nothing on this...


Have not rec'd the grainfather yet but anything with threads can be adapted to anything else with threads generally speaking, it's just a matter of research and perhaps trial and error. Since the pump terminates in silicon hose, it makes it even simpler, anything you can connect with silicon hose would work, you just need a barbed fitting to go in the end of the silicon hose if you want to go to a different chiller or a hop back or a thrumometer or anything else you can think of. Unless I am grossly misinterpeting what you're asking.

In normal operation mode during the mash you have the mash arm which connects to a silicon hose which sits on top of the grain bed. Put a barb into that and you can go through any other thing you want... And go from recirculating to going through a plate chiller or hop back or filter or whatever..... Right?


----------



## Coodgee

my grainfather has a leak! just a slow drip coming out of the "out" end of the pump around the little plastic/rubber cover. tried tightening the cable ties but no good. what a pain. at the moment I just have to put a cup under there to collect the drips, but it's only 3 brews old


----------



## acarey

Coodgee said:


> my grainfather has a leak! just a slow drip coming out of the "out" end of the pump around the little plastic/rubber cover. tried tightening the cable ties but no good. what a pain. at the moment I just have to put a cup under there to collect the drips, but it's only 3 brews old


This happened to me. I had to undo the clamp completely, undo the support brackect and push the rubber cover back over the copper then put it all back together.


----------



## Coodgee

thanks acarey, I'll take a look at that. what a pain though! they should have a mobile grainfather service technician to come out and fix it haha


----------



## acarey

Coodgee said:


> thanks acarey, I'll take a look at that. what a pain though! they should have a mobile grainfather service technician to come out and fix it haha


No worries,

Actually on rereading your question, I've realized you were talking about the pump. I was talking about the chiller, so probably no help to your actual problem....

Sorry about that :huh:


----------



## Coodgee

haha no worries. The sight glass on my grainfather HLT also leaks


----------



## butisitart

there's some bloody good stuff coming through here recently - lots of food for thought.
just clocked another sparge timed at 4m 50secs. and that felt slowish, had a slightly sluggish grainbed that i had to pull the mash apart and re-stir going from 63 to 68C. but yeah - i would think that if you're doing much over 5mins on a sparge, to hit the sparge as soon as you lift the cylinder out of the mash and keep the water flow between the top grain filter fins.


----------



## nads

This forum has been such a wealth of information and my brews have improved as a result. My sparge time on my last Citra APA was just over 5 mins compared to the previous identical brew which was around 1/2 hour. Only difference is starting the sparge immediately after lifting the inner basket as well as increasing sparge water temp from 76 to around 78 - 80 deg.


----------



## butisitart

good to hear, nads... i had a wobbly theory on gf sparge, which seems to be starting to bear some fruit. i think (from memory) it were coodgee that had similar sparge times. waiting to hear from carniebrew on his next. that makes me pretty bloody happy if that's the solution.


----------



## arzaman

Here short guide to upgrade grainfather equipment with Open ArdBir controller providing full brewing process automation and much more !

enjoy
Davide

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzJctwTmh10[/media]


----------



## HeavyNova

Thanks for those links to upgrade guys, I'll check them out when I get home today.

Yep, Rawlus, that's basically what I mean, however I'd like to avoid messing around with the pump outlet. Ideally, a QD installed immediately after the ball valve with the corresponding end on the other side of the recirculation arm and anything else that you wanted to pump out to (e.g. chiller or hopback). I've seen this on YouTube but haven't found any follow up info on the parts required to do it.

Trial and error will likely get you there but if possible, I would like to avoid buying a bunch of unnecessary parts just hoping one of them will fit. I'm slowly getting somewhere with the office Grainfather crew, but we seem to be taking forever to decide on which thread I'm talking about.

On a side note, I put the first Grainfather brew down on the weekend and it was a pleasure. Very easy to work with, no issues with sparging and had an efficiency of 80%. Loved it. Looking forward to getting the end result in a glass.


----------



## welly2

Had my first grainfather brew day. It went very well! I'm really pleased. Made an English Special Bitter and made my first yeast starter which is looking good. I'm cube chilling it so waiting for it to chill before I pitch the yeast.

All the numbers worked out as expected. About 28L pre-boil, about 23L post boil. And I'm not sure how, I'm yet to figure out, but the efficiency was off the scale. 91.2%. Estimated OG was 1.046. Actual OG ended up being 1.058. I didn't weigh the grain before it went in the Grainfather but the only thing I can assume is that my grain supplier weighed out too much grain. They've always been reliable though so can't really explain that one.

The sparge went on for about 1/2 hour which was perfect timing for getting up to boil temperature. Overall, chuffed to bits. Can't wait to try the beer!


----------



## fishingbrad

I also had my fist grainfather brew day yesterday. Did a German Style lager. no chill cubed as the yeast wasn't ready (on the stir plate). How great are these things. I have come from Biab using 2 pot method and the grain father just blew me away.

I did find my 19lt Big W pot was the perfect size to place the malt pipe in to carry out to the compost.

Does anyone else have a better cleaning method. I found the protein really stuck to the bottom (not that there was much)and needed more than what they show you in the videos. I had to use a green scrubbing pad to get it off.

Cheers.


----------



## nads

I have the same problem with a lot of gunk stuck to the bottom and it's been the same with all 6 brews I've done. I also use a green scrubbing pad and a lot of elbow grease to remove it. Tried bicarb and lemon juice as suggested but it did not work for me.


----------



## fotofisher

First of all, thanks to all those who blazed the trail ahead of me by posting some really helpful GF brewing tips. I recently received my GF here in the States and put it through 3 back-to-back batches (barley wine, Belgian trippel, imperial dunkelweizen) this past weekend. I was consistently near 80% efficiency with some complicated multi-step mashes and hit or exceeded all my OGs. I have been brewing since 1990, and seasoned as homebrewing goes, but really I am a newbie with the GF unit. I am already a more efficient brewer with the GF, but I know it can be pushed further. I learned alot from this board and from doing non-stop brewing this weekend. I made a video of some of my tips which may (or may not) be helpful for others in the US that are just now receiving their GF units. >>> https://youtu.be/WV8dVWvrpzY.

.fotofisher.


----------



## butisitart

cleaning the stuck bits off the bottom.....
i leave a thin film of trub/beer over the bottom as i pour the dregs through a filter into the fermenter.
then IMMEDIATELY (before everything goes completely cold and seriously stuck) i use a stainless steel (eg $3 from woolies) egglifter and lift all the black/burnies off. like lifting oil off the bbq. comes off easily and fast, but you need to do it while it's still hot. i suspect leaving a thin film of trub over it may keep the burnt bit from hardening up too fast.
note - don't then filter the last bit of trub into a fermenter unless you like a smoky burnt flavour in your beer. i only did it twice, now i have 2 rauschbiers whether i wanted them or not.

yep - done the bi-carb and vinegar - this is sooo much easier and quick


----------



## butisitart

further note on getting stuck on the bottom of gf.
i don't know if milling a bit too fine helps cause this or not. to date, i don't yet have a mill so have to rely on whatever my supplier does. any scientific finds, observations, refinements on milling differences would probably be appreciated by all.
happy brewing


----------



## fotofisher

fotofisher said:


> I made a video of some of my tips which may (or may not) be helpful for others in the US that are just now receiving their GF units. >>> https://youtu.be/WV8dVWvrpzY.
> 
> .fotofisher.


I also published a few DIY Grainfather brewing tips: https://youtu.be/B-Da6HKW1No


----------



## welly2

fotofisher said:


> I also published a few DIY Grainfather brewing tips: https://youtu.be/B-Da6HKW1No


Some good tips in both your videos and I'm enjoying the porn music. It brings back fond memories.


----------



## meathead

Is anyone in Oz selling the upgrade kits yet?


----------



## tugger

I tried biab,ing in the Grainfather. 
I milled 10kg of grain but chickened out at 9.5kg. I probably could have fit the lot in, mabee next time. 
All went well.


----------



## Coodgee

The bottom of my grainfather never burns and is really easy to clean! This is with preboil gravities of about 1042. Wonder why?


----------



## carniebrew

tugger said:


> I tried biab,ing in the Grainfather.
> I milled 10kg of grain but chickened out at 9.5kg. I probably could have fit the lot in, mabee next time.
> All went well.
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1440401995.383500.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1440402019.290786.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1440402046.118814.jpg


Why are you using a bag?


----------



## butisitart

Posted Today, 05:41 PM
I tried biab,ing in the Grainfather

nope. don't understand that one.
isn't that like tossing the engine out and shoving a donkey under the bonnet?? :unsure:


coodgee - i can only think milling grades. but i can't tell until i get my own mill and start experimenting, unless somebody out there does the hard yards first. i get the odd one that's clean, but most have a crescent moon of slightly burnt powder.


----------



## tugger

Just experimenting. 
I have done around 60 brews on the gf the normal way.


----------



## WhiteLomu

Coodgee said:


> The bottom of my grainfather never burns and is really easy to clean! This is with preboil gravities of about 1042. Wonder why?


Your gravity is too low for any scorching. Mine are around 1.06 and there's always a bit of scrubbing needed. Not burnt though.


----------



## carniebrew

tugger said:


> Just experimenting.
> I have done around 60 brews on the gf the normal way.


Nice. So what did the experiment show? Any advantages or major drawbacks? Would certainly be easier to clean I guess?


----------



## tugger

I was trying to stuff as much grain in as I could for a high gravity beer without having most of the grain end up in the boil through the recurc and side holes. 
I added some lme up to 1.095 post boil. 
I think it was 1.076 at 27l pre boil. 
I had to get 23l into a cube when finished so there was 24.somthing post boil. 
It really helps having the graduation marks to know when to stop the boil. 
I used the malt pipe with the tube missing so that ment I could use the sparge locking ring and sparge normally with the bag sitting on the bottom plate. 
In the mash I could stir old school style while recirculating then recirculated back to the bag towards the end of the mash and in mash out. (Using old school brewing methods, mash stir recurculate drain sparge)
Everything went well. 
I would do it again.


----------



## acarey

tugger said:


> I was trying to stuff as much grain in as I could for a high gravity beer without having most of the grain end up in the boil through the recurc and side holes.
> I added some lme up to 1.095 post boil.
> I think it was 1.076 at 27l pre boil.
> I had to get 23l into a cube when finished so there was 24.somthing post boil.
> It really helps having the graduation marks to know when to stop the boil.
> I used the malt pipe with the tube missing so that ment I could use the sparge locking ring and sparge normally with the bag sitting on the bottom plate.
> In the mash I could stir old school style while recirculating then recirculated back to the bag towards the end of the mash and in mash out. (Using old school brewing methods, mash stir recurculate drain sparge)
> Everything went well.
> I would do it again.


The other week I did a DFH 90 min IPA clone with a grain bill of 9.6kg in the grainfather. It was touch and go, I had to disregard the water calcs as I'd tried them before with this amount of grain and it went pear shaped..

I just put a bit of water in initially to cover the bottom of the mash pipe, then gradually added grain and water alternately while stirring until I had reached max capacity. Just as much wort was going down out the side holes as through the centre pipe. I didn't have issues with grain ending up in the mash though (no more than usual anyway, which isn't much).

Then made it up to volume by sparging. Went well in the end but the efficiency took a hit. Ended up with 69% which is ok. that's why god invented dex.


----------



## butisitart

makes sense in the circumstances.
i do a few 46L batches to get my reserves up, so i use around 6-7kg grain, then throw in a 1.5kg pale unhopped malt right on the end of the boil. it then ain't all grain, obviously, but it's pretty convenient. and 6-7kg doesn't stress me or the gf.

that produces around 24L concentrated wort, so 50/50 into each fermenter, then top up with cold water and voila.

(remembering to add enough hops for a 46L brew.) h34r:


----------



## Spookism

So, I brewed some Coopers kit brews a few years ago, so naturally I've made the step up to a Grainfather.
I'm doing much trawling through the interwebs for tips, how to's etc. and this has been a great wealth of information - even if I'm still unsure of some of the terms used.


----------



## butisitart

if you don't know the terms used, just post a list. they'll all be cleared up. and if they aren't clear to you, then they're not clear to somebody else.


----------



## nads

The following will be my next brew but it is a one step mash according to the recipe. Would it be beneficial to do a mashout for say 10 min

.http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/732117/dr-smurtos-golden-ale-grainfather


----------



## butisitart

nads said:


> The following will be my next brew but it is a one step mash according to the recipe. Would it be beneficial to do a mashout for say 10 min
> 
> .http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/732117/dr-smurtos-golden-ale-grainfather


sounds a good brew - but i thought it were funny that an american doing an american ipa with american ingredients and american hops and in american measures, should then turn around and call it 'one of the most widely home-brewed beers in australia' quote-unquote. i would never have known that.
most recipes are best taken as a guide - unless you've found something you know to be really specific (like standard true irish dry stout will probably only have ale malt, roast barley and rolled barley.)
personally - i mashout everything in the gf at 76C for 5-8mins. no particular reason - just habit, and cos i can. but after reading something about mash-out temps from one of the published authors, apparently the 76c mixed with a 78c fly sparge water temp helps the sparge.
so if you feel comfortable with the mash -out, i'd go for it.
you also need to remember that guys who post recipes may be working with a system that gets a bit awkward with step mashing.. so i'd consider if you want the bigger flavour (higher temp mash) or bigger ferment (lower temp) and go with the mash cycle that suits either your experimental learnings, or your gut feeling.
but it do sound like a good one to brew.


----------



## nads

Thanks butisitart I'll take your advice and follow mashout and sparge suggestion. All my previous brews ( 6 ) were step mashed and quite time consuming hence my reason for making this one step mash my next brew.


----------



## Coodgee

for me the multi-step mash capability of the grainfather is one of the key differentiators so I do it cos I can :lol:


----------



## butisitart

nads said:


> Thanks butisitart I'll take your advice and follow mashout and sparge suggestion. All my previous brews ( 6 ) were step mashed and quite time consuming hence my reason for making this one step mash my next brew.


works in reverse too. somebody's recipe that advocates step mashing is probably based on their capacity to step mash. so if you get a step mash brew, and it's time consuming, just go the conventional 67-68C. so i wouldn't worry about what somebody else's mash regime is, and observe your own comfortable mash conditions and develop from there. this is all supposed to be fun, not a chemistry exam.

actually - i just realised you're on a gf -
if you want to experiment, try one on the single, then one on the 76c mash out.
i'm not sure what you mean by things becoming a lot more time consuming if you're using a gf. it would be a 60m boil then a bump to 76c.


----------



## TK1

meathead said:


> Is anyone in Oz selling the upgrade kits yet?


Hi all,

Been following this thread for some great tips. 

I've just noticed the GF Australian site has the upgrade kits (free and full versions) and new filter available now on the website. I've already ordered mine through my LHBS (figured a bit of margin for them vs postage cost and it helps support them). Only done a few brews in my original model GF due to distractions, but perfect timing on the upgrades as I get back into it.

Happy brewing!


----------



## carniebrew

TK1 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Been following this thread for some great tips.
> 
> I've just noticed the GF Australian site has the upgrade kits (free and full versions) and new filter available now on the website. I've already ordered mine through my LHBS (figured a bit of margin for them vs postage cost and it helps support them). Only done a few brews in my original model GF due to distractions, but perfect timing on the upgrades as I get back into it.
> 
> Happy brewing!


Mmmm....brewing equipment upgrades...

Ordered! Thanks for the heads up. That new filter looks schmick!


----------



## carniebrew

carniebrew said:


> Mmmm....brewing equipment upgrades...
> 
> Ordered! Thanks for the heads up. That new filter looks schmick!


 (or rather it would be ordered if their payment gateway wasn't down)


----------



## TK1

carniebrew said:


> (or rather it would be ordered if their payment gateway wasn't down)


Well, it worked half an hour ago - hope I haven't caused a rush and crashed the system!

As long as mine is on it's way before you all get your mits on them


----------



## carniebrew

TK1 said:


> Well, it worked half an hour ago - hope I haven't caused a rush and crashed the system!
> 
> As long as mine is on it's way before you all get your mits on them


Looks like it was just an Amex issue...I tried two Amex cards (don't ask) and both failed. Just tried the Visa and it's gone through. Weird given their site says they accept Amex...perhaps they're different gateways.


----------



## Coodgee

do you think the new filter gives you more wort for the same or less trub? or more wort and heaps more trub?


----------



## aamcle

I'm building a mini GF just over 1/2 size, may I ask in the malt pipe what is the highest grain/water ratio (kg/litre) they work at?


Atb. Aamcle


----------



## TK1

Coodgee said:


> do you think the new filter gives you more wort for the same or less trub? or more wort and heaps more trub?


I'm, hoping it will give less trub, so keen to give it a go.

I have only heard one report from using the new filter, a brewer in the US, who mentioned still getting a bit of trub coming through: "I cant put more than 2oz of hops in without a clog" (pellets and not using a hop spider or socks). But then on the Grainfather site they do a trub vs no trub comparison (week 9 of the weekly mash articles) and results seemed to favour some trub in the fermenter for a better result.

I'm going to give it a go, but also trying a hop spider for the first time and sifting most of the flour out of the grains (pre-milled) so hoping it's pretty clear.


----------



## carniebrew

Don't stress too much on the trub, your yeast needs some in there during fermentation, and if you're doing everything else well you'll get the clarity you desire in your beer in the end.


----------



## meathead

TK1 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Been following this thread for some great tips.
> 
> I've just noticed the GF Australian site has the upgrade kits (free and full versions) and new filter available now on the website. I've already ordered mine through my LHBS (figured a bit of margin for them vs postage cost and it helps support them). Only done a few brews in my original model GF due to distractions, but perfect timing on the upgrades as I get back into it.
> 
> Happy brewing!


Which lhbs did u order from?


----------



## TK1

meathead said:


> Which lhbs did u order from?


I ordered via The Country Brewer in Daylesford. Got my GF there and the service is great. Mark, the manager, is happy to order things in. Plus they sell food smoking, fly fishing and other gear that I'm always happy to spend money on. Works out well as the wife is happy to wander around the town and I can have a beer and browse in the shop...and sneak a few things into the car while she's distracted elsewhere . I shop in Melbourne too but it's always a good excuse for a day trip.


----------



## nads

butisitart said:


> works in reverse too. somebody's recipe that advocates step mashing is probably based on their capacity to step mash. so if you get a step mash brew, and it's time consuming, just go the conventional 67-68C. so i wouldn't worry about what somebody else's mash regime is, and observe your own comfortable mash conditions and develop from there. this is all supposed to be fun, not a chemistry exam.
> 
> actually - i just realised you're on a gf -
> if you want to experiment, try one on the single, then one on the 76c mash out.
> i'm not sure what you mean by things becoming a lot more time consuming if you're using a gf. it would be a 60m boil then a bump to 76c.



I was referring to the step mash regime. My first GF brew was a Citra APA which was a one step and resulted in a stuck mash and an extremely long sparge. So after some research it was suggested I should step mash @ 40 deg for 30 min, 53 deg for 10 min, 66 deg for 60 min, 72 deg for 10 min and then mashout @ 78 deg for 10 min. a total of 2 hrs plus the temp ramp up times, so my next Citra was a long brew day after clean up but resulted in a nice beer.


----------



## Spookism

Potential tragedy in the virgin brew...

I got the the Chur! kit with my Grainfather to ease myself into it.
Everything seemed to be going fine until the very end.
I was having issues with my tap which I decided to try and fix while the chiller period was going on.
Long story short - I broke something and now I have no water to the house unless I want it flooded... -_-

No more water to chill, means my wort is going into the fermenter at 63 degrees. Obviously I'll wait until it drops to put the yeast in - but have I trashed the brew with a long cool down period?


Also doing the maths I got a 93% efficiency - is that way to high?


----------



## butisitart

nads said:


> I was referring to the step mash regime. My first GF brew was a Citra APA which was a one step and resulted in a stuck mash and an extremely long sparge. So after some research it was suggested I should step mash @ 40 deg for 30 min, 53 deg for 10 min, 66 deg for 60 min, 72 deg for 10 min and then mashout @ 78 deg for 10 min. a total of 2 hrs plus the temp ramp up times, so my next Citra was a long brew day after clean up but resulted in a nice beer.


you might check out why you are mashing such. my understanding is that 40c is good for 5-10mins. 53c is only good in certain situations. 63 or 68 for an hour, or combined. 76 for mashout 5mins, suited to gf.
i would suggest searching for a bit of the science behind, eg mash steps
or Mash Temperature and Beer Body in All Grain Brewing | Home Brewing Beer Blog by BeerSmith

and don't be too glued to a recipe. most guys who post recipes are not brewing gurus. learn your mashing within your own reading, understanding and experiments.

on the subject of a stuck mash in a gf, i find that (in the rare occasion it has happened), the easiest is to turn the pump off, remove the reticulation arm, lift the top plate out wearing some thick rubber gloves, stir the grain until satisfied it has unclogged, then replace everything. a bit of a nuisance, but will happen sometimes. usually, everything will go fine after that.


----------



## arzaman

[SIZE=10pt]Another great video with the full GF brew day with ArdBir support and automation ![/SIZE]

[media]https://vimeo.com/138392796?ref=fb-share[/media]

https://www.facebook.com/OpenArdBir

[SIZE=10pt]enjoy
Davide[/SIZE]


----------



## Shibby

Hi Guys first time post on here, I have brewed two AG brews with the new Grainfather and finding there's an unusual taste to the brew.
The taste comes during fermentation and Im not sure if its normal. Its hard to describe but the beer looks good. I have done an AIPA and an English Bitter.
The brews were all temp controlled too. Here is a few questions -

1) As I have only done Extract brews previously, usually the flavour of the wort after fermentation is pretty similar to the final beer. Is the the same with AG brews?
2) Do you need to leave the AG brews in a bottle longer? Say 6-8 weeks? Some of the kits brews I thought were good at 2-4 weeks, maybe I'm being impatient.
3) Do you guys Sanitise the GF before each use?

The 2 brews are listed below and I used Marris Otter for the base Malt for both. I have found that my first brew now near 4 weeks in the bottle is tasting alot better but not quite what I was hoping for.

1st Brew - http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/allgrain/AG-KamaCitra.pdf
2nd Brew - https://homebru.com.au/media/wysiwyg/images/Special%20English%20Ale.pdf

With the second brew after brewing at 16 I raised to 20 for 2 days before cold crashing. 

I mite try take a brew to the local HB store to see if the mild twang in the flavour is something they can help with, it may also go away with abit more time in the bottle.


----------



## Diesel80

Shibby said:


> Hi Guys first time post on here, I have brewed two AG brews with the new Grainfather and finding there's an unusual taste to the brew.
> The taste comes during fermentation and Im not sure if its normal. Its hard to describe but the beer looks good. I have done an AIPA and an English Bitter.
> The brews were all temp controlled too. Here is a few questions -
> 
> 1) As I have only done Extract brews previously, usually the flavour of the wort after fermentation is pretty similar to the final beer. Is the the same with AG brews?
> 2) Do you need to leave the AG brews in a bottle longer? Say 6-8 weeks? Some of the kits brews I thought were good at 2-4 weeks, maybe I'm being impatient.
> 3) Do you guys Sanitise the GF before each use?
> 
> The 2 brews are listed below and I used Marris Otter for the base Malt for both. I have found that my first brew now near 4 weeks in the bottle is tasting alot better but not quite what I was hoping for.
> 
> 1st Brew - http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/allgrain/AG-KamaCitra.pdf
> 2nd Brew - https://homebru.com.au/media/wysiwyg/images/Special%20English%20Ale.pdf
> 
> With the second brew after brewing at 16 I raised to 20 for 2 days before cold crashing.
> 
> I mite try take a brew to the local HB store to see if the mild twang in the flavour is something they can help with, it may also go away with abit more time in the bottle.


Probably not grainfather related per se, but could you describe the taste at all?
Did you use Nottingham yeast?

Cheers,
D80


----------



## Shibby

Ill have to think on how to describe it, I may open a bottle tonight to help.
The first brew was US -05 and the second brew was Nottingham yeast. The falvour is alot stronger in the brew with the US-05.
I originally thought it could be an infection, but the beer looks good, clarity is good, and theres no extra head or fizz so i presumed it could be something else, or
even just the normal flavour from Marris otter.
Do you sanitise the GF or is the boil good enough for this?


----------



## carniebrew

1) As I have only done Extract brews previously, usually the flavour of the wort after fermentation is pretty similar to the final beer. Is the the same with AG brews?
- Yes, there should be no difference post-fermentation between an extract and AG brew in terms to how it tastes before/after being carbed up

2) Do you need to leave the AG brews in a bottle longer? Say 6-8 weeks? Some of the kits brews I thought were good at 2-4 weeks, maybe I'm being impatient.
- Nope, again there should be no difference at all as to how long it'll take for a beer to be ready for drinking. 2 weeks max usually, sometimes a bit shorter, depending on the temp you've kept them at after bottling. The warmer they are, the quicker they'll carb (but not too warm or they'll go funky. Anywhere between 15-22C should be fine)

3) Do you guys Sanitise the GF before each use?
- No, I just do the clean cycle (PBW then clean water) as per the GF instructions. No need to sanitise if you've cleaned it well after use.


----------



## butisitart

Shibby said:


> Hi Guys first time post on here, I have brewed two AG brews with the new Grainfather and finding there's an unusual taste to the brew.
> The taste comes during fermentation and Im not sure if its normal. Its hard to describe but the beer looks good. I have done an AIPA and an English Bitter.
> The brews were all temp controlled too. Here is a few questions -
> further to other responses, but in no way negating them,
> the gf is going to boil for an hour, so not much point in sanitizing it. cleaning it post brew is a lot more important. especially the wort chiller.
> good idea to take a bottle to your hbs as they may (or may not scientifically be able to) nail it in one, but should offer a good starting point if it's a particular issue.
> things i found personally, about gf and all-grain, is that gf is a lot more sensitive to what you put into it than perhaps biab or kit. eg i had to tone down the roast barley in my irish dry stout cos the gf really grabs the flavour of grains. 2 week ferment is pretty much base standard (extending from there if you want) to clear beer and clarify flavours. i find that the beers, regardless of ale, bock, stout etc, seem to balance in together at about 4 weeks, and can have some odd (but not overly strong) flavours in the earlier weeks. especially if they have only fermented 1 week. this is all based on beers around 3.6 - 4.2%abv, cos that will extend when abv climbs over standard, eg 6 or 8% abv.
> adding a little pale crystal malt (around 100EBC at 2-5% of mash grain) is apparently good for smothering cardboard odours.
> i guess another test is whether you are getting whatever this flavour is in you pale beers only, or in pale and dark beers. my theory there is that if darker beers are masking the taste, then it is not some weird diseased thing in your brew cos it would show in your dark beers, but more that the dark beer will mask the lack of fermentation via stronger dark grain flavours overriding a lack of fermentation. that's just my observation and i could be either spot on, or way off the mark.


----------



## carniebrew

From Grainfather Mark I:







To Grainfather Mark II!


----------



## nads

STC - 1000 Upgrade, Automated step mashing.

Found this if anyone is interested.

http://homebrewery.nz/process/grainfather-stc-1000/


----------



## Benn

Bookmarked.
cheers :beer:


----------



## fishingbrad

Nice link Nads. have you done this?


----------



## welly2

I'm going to have a go. Just ordered an STC-1000 suitable for this upgrade. I have said before about the ALVA seems like a bit of money just to not press buttons but at $30 (plus an arduino) compared with $450, I don't mind spending $30 in this case. I'll let you know how I get on!


----------



## meathead

TK1 said:


> I ordered via The Country Brewer in Daylesford. Got my GF there and the service is great. Mark, the manager, is happy to order things in. Plus they sell food smoking, fly fishing and other gear that I'm always happy to spend money on. Works out well as the wife is happy to wander around the town and I can have a beer and browse in the shop...and sneak a few things into the car while she's distracted elsewhere . I shop in Melbourne too but it's always a good excuse for a day trip.


Nice work thanks


----------



## nads

fishingbrad said:


> Nice link Nads. have you done this?


Not yet as I want to order the Grainfather upgrade first.


----------



## McMelloW

See this video on the use of an Open ArdBir and the GrainFather.
The software is open source and the hardware based on an Arduino Uno. It cost a bit more and you have to do a bit more DIY. See also  this link


----------



## Gorgar

fishingbrad said:


> Nice link Nads. have you done this?


I did that on my GF (STC1000+ Brew) and it works like a charm!
A little more complicated than Ardbir to program the first couple of times but when it's done it works perfectly!
No modding needed to be done to the GF itself, just unscrew the leads from temp controller, heater and so on and lift out the STC200 and pop in the STC1000 (same form factor)
If you want to get a little more advanced you can also solder in the pump control and steer it via the STC1000 as well


----------



## Hallze

Just a quick question. Do the new units come with the "T" filter as standard or is it only available as a $25 upgrade?


----------



## HBHB

Hallze said:


> Just a quick question. Do the new units come with the "T" filter as standard or is it only available as a $25 upgrade?


Standard fitting in the current crop Hallze


----------



## Hallze

Cheers mate. I bought one about 4 weeks ago and I asked them was there a upgraded model coming out soon. They told me there wasn't so I bought one they had. A bit peeved they bullshitted me. Is the new filter any better than the previous one?


----------



## HBHB

Hallze said:


> Cheers mate. I bought one about 4 weeks ago and I asked them was there a upgraded model coming out soon. They told me there wasn't so I bought one they had. A bit peeved they bullshitted me. Is the new filter any better than the previous one?


It's not an upgraded model as such it's just got a new designed filter. But reality is, they probably wouldn't have known. We certainly didn't until they turned up.


----------



## carniebrew

Hallze said:


> Cheers mate. I bought one about 4 weeks ago and I asked them was there a upgraded model coming out soon. They told me there wasn't so I bought one they had. A bit peeved they bullshitted me. Is the new filter any better than the previous one?


Does yours have all the rest of the upgraded bits, just not the filter?


----------



## carniebrew

Ok, I just brewed on my GrainFather for the first time in a couple of months, and the first time since I committed to trying the "straight away" sparge method. I got everything ready to go, pulled the malt pipe up, waited for it to drain to the top of the tabs on the top plate, then poured a litre of 75C water in. By the time I filled my litre jug up with the next lot of sparge water, it was time to pour that in too. Sure enough my 11 litre sparge was over in not much more than 10 minutes! I was rapt as it's taken me 45 minutes previously.

BUT...(why is there always a but??)...after removing the malt pipe I took an OG, and was a good 6 points under what was expected! It's the first time this has happened to me on the Grainfather. I used some dextrose to get up to the OG I wanted (I didn't mind for this beer as I'm going for a dry hoppy pale). Later on I plugged my numbers back into Beersmith and it tells me I got a little over 70% efficiency, rather than the 80-82% I normally get. That's almost as low as I used to get no-sparging on my BIAB system.

To be clear, it's total efficiency I'm talking about here...here's a snip from Beersmith. 



I'm sure we discussed efficiency with the "fast sparge" method previously and those doing it indicated no issues. But it's the only thing I changed on this brew...I left the roller width the same on my mill 'coz I wanted to only change 1 thing at a time.

Anyone else switched to the fast sparge method and noticing a big efficiency drop?


----------



## GalBrew

carniebrew said:


> Ok, I just brewed on my GrainFather for the first time in a couple of months, and the first time since I committed to trying the "straight away" sparge method. I got everything ready to go, pulled the malt pipe up, waited for it to drain to the top of the tabs on the top plate, then poured a litre of 75C water in. By the time I filled my litre jug up with the next lot of sparge water, it was time to pour that in too. Sure enough my 11 litre sparge was over in not much more than 10 minutes! I was rapt as it's taken me 45 minutes previously.
> 
> BUT...(why is there always a but??)...after removing the malt pipe I took an OG, and was a good 6 points under what was expected! It's the first time this has happened to me on the Grainfather. I used some dextrose to get up to the OG I wanted (I didn't mind for this beer as I'm going for a dry hoppy pale). Later on I plugged my numbers back into Beersmith and it tells me I got a little over 70% efficiency, rather than the 80-82% I normally get. That's almost as low as I used to get no-sparging on my BIAB system.
> 
> To be clear, it's total efficiency I'm talking about here...here's a snip from Beersmith.
> 
> 
> 
> efficiency.JPG
> 
> I'm sure we discussed efficiency with the "fast sparge" method previously and those doing it indicated no issues. But it's the only thing I changed on this brew...I left the roller width the same on my mill 'coz I wanted to only change 1 thing at a time.
> 
> Anyone else switched to the fast sparge method and noticing a big efficiency drop?


Same thing happened to me. Took a pre boil gravity reading that was 15 points lower than predicted. Dumped 1.1 kg LDME to bring it back up to expected gravity. Post boil gravity ended up 15 points higher than expected. I neglected to give the wort a good stir before taking the same as my mash paddle doesn't fit well in the GF.


----------



## carniebrew

Haha...I did think of that before taking the reading, gave it a really good stir (with my new schmick narrow GF stainless paddle!). My post boil OG was spot on (after adding the dex), so unfortunately not the problem for me.


----------



## McMelloW

Gorgar said:


> I did that on my GF (STC1000+ Brew) and it works like a charm!
> A little more complicated than Ardbir to program the first couple of times but when it's done it works perfectly!
> No modding needed to be done to the GF itself, just unscrew the leads from temp controller, heater and so on and lift out the STC200 and pop in the STC1000 (same form factor)
> If you want to get a little more advanced you can also solder in the pump control and steer it via the STC1000 as well


The pump control is already there in the ArdBir. The heating is controlled with a SSR and PID / PWM in the software. This is more acurate then just on/off. Ofcourse it is an other price.


----------



## butisitart

carniebrew said:


> BUT...(why is there always a but??)...after removing the malt pipe I took an OG, and was a good 6 points under what was expected! It's the first time this has happened to me on the Grainfather. I used some dextrose to get up to the OG I wanted (I didn't mind for this beer as I'm going for a dry hoppy pale). Later on I plugged my numbers back into Beersmith and it tells me I got a little over 70% efficiency, rather than the 80-82% I normally get. That's almost as low as I used to get no-sparging on my BIAB system.
> 
> I'm sure we discussed efficiency with the "fast sparge" method previously and those doing it indicated no issues. But it's the only thing I changed on this brew...I left the roller width the same on my mill 'coz I wanted to only change 1 thing at a time.


i'd do it again and see whether you get efficiency or no. i hadn't considered that a slow sparge might increase efficiency, but would be nice to test. must say i not convinced at this point. for me, a slow sparge is due to stuck grain, so i don't envisage greater efficiency, and maybe an increase of tannin if sparge water is gripping on some grain. also, i would have thought that a slow sparge may mean that some grain is pretty starved of sparge water anyway, thereby decreasing overall efficiency. dunno. no doubt there are far more scientifically knowledgeable brewers out there than me.


----------



## Buckskin

Has anyone noticed any calibration issues with the controller on the GF? 

I've also not been able to get my efficiency over the mid 60s. A double crush yielded 68%. The only thing I can think of is that their is a calibration issue. 

Any views or experience on this?


----------



## kaiserben

carniebrew said:


> I'm sure we discussed efficiency with the "fast sparge" method previously and those doing it indicated no issues. But it's the only thing I changed on this brew...I left the roller width the same on my mill 'coz I wanted to only change 1 thing at a time.


Fast sparge is how I do it (only because I thought it was the "right" way). Could you describe your non-fast method? 

I'll usually get 76% (total) efficiency.


----------



## HBHB

Buckskin said:


> Has anyone noticed any calibration issues with the controller on the GF?
> 
> I've also not been able to get my efficiency over the mid 60s. A double crush yielded 68%. The only thing I can think of is that their is a calibration issue.
> 
> Any views or experience on this?


No, but easy to check the calibration against a decent glass thermometer or a thermapen if you have access to one.


----------



## Buckskin

Just tested calibration and it's perfect. I'm completely stumped. 
Double crush gets 68% efficiency. Grains fresh. Using same water and grain supply as guys down the road who are getting normal results.


----------



## carniebrew

kaiserben said:


> Fast sparge is how I do it (only because I thought it was the "right" way). Could you describe your non-fast method?
> 
> I'll usually get 76% (total) efficiency.


I was leaving a longer gap between pulling up the malt pipe and starting the sparge. Not deliberately, I just didn't know to make sure I started sparging more quickly.

Thinking about my process, one other thing I did change was that I milled my grain more slowly...someone had mentioned to me that by going full speed with my drill I might be "shearing" the grain rather than just cracking the husks...so I backed the speed off to about half what I would normally do. The milled grain didn't look a lot different in the end though.


----------



## aamcle

Quick question please?

What is the gap between the bottom filter/plate and the element?

Thanks all I'm building one :

Aamcle


----------



## kaiserben

carniebrew said:


> I was leaving a longer gap between pulling up the malt pipe and starting the sparge. Not deliberately, I just didn't know to make sure I started sparging more quickly.


Just on fast sparge: The theory, as I understood it, is that if you let all the wort drain away before adding sparge water, then the spaces where the wort once was become air and won't support the grain bed, which will collapse in on itself and make it more difficult to sparge.


----------



## wobbly

Have any of you guys experiencing slow/stuck sparge's given consideration to using some rice hulls in the mixs?

Wobly


----------



## HBHB

aamcle said:


> Quick question please?
> What is the gap between the bottom filter/plate and the element?
> Thanks all I'm building one :
> Aamcle


All told, probably 60mm


----------



## aamcle

Thanks

Aamcle


----------



## bradsbrew

Is there a how to instructions for the upgrade kit?


----------



## meathead

There's a vid on YouTube


----------



## HBHB

bradsbrew said:


> Is there a how to instructions for the upgrade kit?


This one Brad

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v0g0IMniMVI


----------



## welly2

It's my first Grainfather brewed beer and it's come out a cracker! English ESB (darker in the picture than it actually is), lovely and malty with just a bit of a hop bite. 5.5%, nice and clear. Well chuffed! Luckily I've got another 40 bottles of it to go through!


----------



## GalBrew

I have to say that using my GF has made brewing fun again for me. Gone are the hours of setup at the start and cleaning and the end (and day after) of brewday. Also gone is the endless switching of hoses, opening and closing of valves and monitoring for leaks etc. Now I get to concentrate on the recipe and taking refrac and pH readings rather than holding my brew system together. Also that counterflow chiller is a work of art. Beer into the fermenter at 20c is not bad at all and I have a hot water source for cleaning, which is done in around half an hour. 

Best purchase ever.


----------



## fishingbrad

Pimping my Grainfather.


----------



## carniebrew

Hey simple question I know, but just curious to find out what people are doing about pH readings during their mash? The GF is pretty locked up tight while it's recirc'ing the mash...it's not all that easy to get a sample out. Are people just sliding the lid aside and taking a sample as it flows out of the pipe? Leaving the lid off during mash altogether? Or something different? Perhaps not taking pH readings during the mash at all?

Similar during the sparge...if you want to do a refrac check during the sparge, how are you getting a sample? I imagine the sparge water is sitting on top of the denser wort during the sparge, so to get a good reading you'd need to stir it up somehow, which means getting the malt pipe out of the way...not easy while you're sparging?


----------



## GalBrew

carniebrew said:


> Hey simple question I know, but just curious to find out what people are doing about pH readings during their mash? The GF is pretty locked up tight while it's recirc'ing the mash...it's not all that easy to get a sample out. Are people just sliding the lid aside and taking a sample as it flows out of the pipe? Leaving the lid off during mash altogether? Or something different? Perhaps not taking pH readings during the mash at all?
> 
> Similar during the sparge...if you want to do a refrac check during the sparge, how are you getting a sample? I imagine the sparge water is sitting on top of the denser wort during the sparge, so to get a good reading you'd need to stir it up somehow, which means getting the malt pipe out of the way...not easy while you're sparging?


I just dunk a measuring cup through the hole in the glass lid to take a sample for pH.


----------



## carniebrew

GalBrew said:


> I just dunk a measuring cup through the hole in the glass lid to take a sample for pH.


How small is your measuring cup?!


----------



## bradsbrew

I slip the lid up onto the return arm.


----------



## GalBrew

carniebrew said:


> How small is your measuring cup?!


Sorry, I tell lies. I did lift the lid up wearing gloves and then used the measuring cup to take a sample. I use those red, plastic coated chemical resistant gloves from Bunnings. They are thick enough to keep you from burning your hand.


----------



## Linkatme

welly2 said:


> I'm going to have a go. Just ordered an STC-1000 suitable for this upgrade. I have said before about the ALVA seems like a bit of money just to not press buttons but at $30 (plus an arduino) compared with $450, I don't mind spending $30 in this case. I'll let you know how I get on!


Hello! I saw the Alva project, looks much better than ArdBir but I guess they work with same components and same software. Probably ArdBir has more languages programmable (I'm Italian but GF is sold worldwide). I think that with less than 100 € (about 100 $ US) is possible to buy all components and installing the software could be a piece of cake, what do You think? Have You done anything since your post? I don't like the STC-1000 project, It's cheaper but....less control and too difficult to be programmed, many videos tell the same. Let me know, cheers! :beerbang:


----------



## welly2

So I'm a bit of a plonker it seems. Had a brew day today making a black IPA. The sparge seemed to go through a bit too quickly compared with last time and when I took a gravity reading, it was a million miles off. My pre-sparge gravity was 1.075. After I sparged, my pre-boil gravity was 1.015 and after boiling it was 1.045.

This is what I think I did wrong:

I put the top overflow pipe in upside down, which meant the top plate was only really resting on the overflow pipe. The sparge water (13L of it) went more down the overflow pipe than through the grain and so basically diluted the wort rather than extracting more sugars from the grain.

Shit.

Still, even at 1.045 it'll still be beer but probably not the heavy black IPA I had planned. Oh well.


----------



## welly2

Linkatme said:


> Hello! I saw the Alva project, looks much better than ArdBir but I guess they work with same components and same software. Probably ArdBir has more languages programmable (I'm Italian but GF is sold worldwide). I think that with less than 100 € (about 100 $ US) is possible to buy all components and installing the software could be a piece of cake, what do You think? Have You done anything since your post? I don't like the STC-1000 project, It's cheaper but....less control and too difficult to be programmed, many videos tell the same. Let me know, cheers! :beerbang:


Still waiting on my STC-1000 to be delivered. I think it should arrive this week coming. I think for $40 (for the STC-1000 and an Arduino) versus $450 (for the Alva) or $100+ for the Ardbir, it will suit my needs of programming mash steps to save me pressing a few buttons. It's an inexpensive toy for the lazy.


----------



## DU99

i just one for retirement gift..let's see how good it is..been doing BIAB


----------



## carniebrew

welly2 said:


> So I'm a bit of a plonker it seems. Had a brew day today making a black IPA. The sparge seemed to go through a bit too quickly compared with last time and when I took a gravity reading, it was a million miles off. My pre-sparge gravity was 1.075. After I sparged, my pre-boil gravity was 1.015 and after boiling it was 1.045.
> 
> This is what I think I did wrong:
> 
> I put the top overflow pipe in upside down, which meant the top plate was only really resting on the overflow pipe. The sparge water (13L of it) went more down the overflow pipe than through the grain and so basically diluted the wort rather than extracting more sugars from the grain.
> 
> Shit.
> 
> Still, even at 1.045 it'll still be beer but probably not the heavy black IPA I had planned. Oh well.


Welly, you sure about that pre-boil gravity? You should only get 4 or 5 gravity points back during the boil, not 30. Sounds like perhaps your sparge water sat on top of the more dense wort underneath, and your pre-boil sample came from that possibly?


----------



## welly2

carniebrew said:


> Welly, you sure about that pre-boil gravity? You should only get 4 or 5 gravity points back during the boil, not 30. Sounds like perhaps your sparge water sat on top of the more dense wort underneath, and your pre-boil sample came from that possibly?


Could well be. I actually thought something like that might have occurred. It's chilling at the moment and so I'm going to take another OG reading before I pitch the yeast, just in case!


----------



## carniebrew

Has anyone thought of an easy way to stir your wort and take a gravity sample through the recirc outlet before removing the malt pipe? Thinking I might have to hook up a pulley system to suspend the malt pipe high enough above the main kettle that I can get in there with my mash paddle. It'd be nice to get an idea of the specific gravity of the wort at various stages throughout the sparge.

Maybe you could leave the recirc arm on, but pivoted away at the side, then feed the silicon hose through the little gap under the malt pipe so at least it's re-circing. Not sure if we'd get hot side aeration issues with that setup though....for those that believe in HSA anyway...


----------



## Linkatme

I had the same problem with the Specify Gravity reading. I think it depends by the refractometer reading (it was the first time) or by a wrong sparging. Sparging should be slow but not too long in order of being effective. Next time i will rise the mashing water volume and reducing the sparging. For the gravity i will try both refractometer and the other one (sorry i don't know the name in English!).

Automation: from eBay I think ArdBir will cost me less than 80€, next week I start a deep search!


----------



## McMelloW

I don't stir the wort. It is done by the reciculation. I take a lttle bit with the hose in a cup. Leave for a few minutes and take the sample with a pipette from the cup for my refractometer. I don.t use a hydrometer.

Automation: Received the ArdBir last week. Just received a box and all connectors etc. This week I will start to put it all together to a nice Open ArdBir Control Box.


----------



## BrewedCrudeandBitter

Just out of interest how long does chilling take for everyone and how much water does it use?

I've only done one batch and my groundwater was coming through at about 16 degrees so I was hopeful that it'd be quite quick but it took way longer than I thought and probably used about 70-80 litres of water. Or am I just doing it wrong?


----------



## fishingbrad

BrewedCrudeandBitter said:


> Just out of interest how long does chilling take for everyone and how much water does it use?
> 
> I've only done one batch and my groundwater was coming through at about 16 degrees so I was hopeful that it'd be quite quick but it took way longer than I thought and probably used about 70-80 litres of water. Or am I just doing it wrong?


That sounds about right. I try and collect as much as I can for wash up.


----------



## carniebrew

McMelloW said:


> I don't stir the wort. It is done by the reciculation. I take a lttle bit with the hose in a cup. Leave for a few minutes and take the sample with a pipette from the cup for my refractometer. I don.t use a hydrometer.


But the recirculation's not happening during sparge though? I'm talking about taking gravity readings mid-sparge.


----------



## nads

BrewedCrudeandBitter said:


> Just out of interest how long does chilling take for everyone and how much water does it use?
> 
> I've only done one batch and my groundwater was coming through at about 16 degrees so I was hopeful that it'd be quite quick but it took way longer than I thought and probably used about 70-80 litres of water. Or am I just doing it wrong?


My last brew took around 25min with water temp at 12deg to get down to 40deg recirculating, I then reduced the wort flow till the wort temp was 23 deg and pumped into fermenter which took around another 15 min. I did not measure the amount of water used but it was running quite slowly.


----------



## carniebrew

BrewedCrudeandBitter said:


> Just out of interest how long does chilling take for everyone and how much water does it use?
> 
> I've only done one batch and my groundwater was coming through at about 16 degrees so I was hopeful that it'd be quite quick but it took way longer than I thought and probably used about 70-80 litres of water. Or am I just doing it wrong?


I don't measure how much water I'm using, as I run it out via a long hose into my garden beds. But it's very quick for me this time of year, with 13C water coming out of my tap (Melb), I'm re-circulating back into the pot for 5 minutes or so, then it's at a point where the wort is around 22C coming out of the chiller so into the fermenter it goes. 22C is the perfect starting point for pitching yeast on your ales. Hold until fermentation begins then drop it to your desired ferment temp.


----------



## carniebrew

nads said:


> My last brew took around 25min with water temp at 12deg to get down to 40deg recirculating, I then reduced the wort flow till the wort temp was 23 deg and pumped into fermenter which took around another 15 min. I did not measure the amount of water used but it was running quite slowly.


nads, I'd be surprised if you need to wait anywhere near that long...with 12C water you should be able to start transferring when your temp is showing around 80C during the recirc. Stick a sanitised thermometer into the flow and you should see it's low 20's after about 5 minutes.


----------



## welly2

McMelloW said:


> I don't stir the wort. It is done by the reciculation. I take a lttle bit with the hose in a cup. Leave for a few minutes and take the sample with a pipette from the cup for my refractometer. I don.t use a hydrometer.
> 
> Automation: Received the ArdBir last week. Just received a box and all connectors etc. This week I will start to put it all together to a nice Open ArdBir Control Box.


Would be keen to see some photos and how you're putting it together. I'll probably stick with my firmware-updated STC-1000 when it arrives but interested in what the ArdBir offers.


----------



## BrewedCrudeandBitter

Yeah it took me close to half an hour to get it down to about 25 degrees. So I put it in the fridge for a couple of hours to get it down to pitching temp.


----------



## Wadey

Hi folks.

Finally got the grainfather and did a maiden brew on Saturday. So just thought I would post my experience and get some feedback. I decided to do a Aussie Lager and everything was going great guns, sparge only took about 10 minutes so that wasn't bad from what I've read. Then I started the boil and a few dramas kicked in

1) I was worried about wort getting burnt on the bottom so in the course of trying to scrap the element I knocked the filter off, not cool. So I pushed on wasn't much I could do about, lucky I was using a hop spider.
2) first time using a chiller of any sort but I went through a shit tin of water. Next time I will work on the flow rates and see how it goes but I ended up throwing the fermenter in the fridge to get to 12c 
3) other than those issue it went well 

Question for the forum, I noticed the control panel work light was coming on even when I had the switch in the '0' position, is that normal?


----------



## welly2

Wadey said:


> Hi folks.
> 
> Finally got the grainfather and did a maiden brew on Saturday. So just thought I would post my experience and get some feedback. I decided to do a Aussie Lager and everything was going great guns, sparge only took about 10 minutes so that wasn't bad from what I've read. Then I started the boil and a few dramas kicked in
> 
> 1) I was worried about wort getting burnt on the bottom so in the course of trying to scrap the element I knocked the filter off, not cool. So I pushed on wasn't much I could do about, lucky I was using a hop spider.
> 2) first time using a chiller of any sort but I went through a shit tin of water. Next time I will work on the flow rates and see how it goes but I ended up throwing the fermenter in the fridge to get to 12c
> 3) other than those issue it went well
> 
> Question for the forum, I noticed the control panel work light was coming on even when I had the switch in the '0' position, is that normal?


I've found (in the two grainfather brews I've made) that you get a little, not much, but a little scorching on the element. Nothing more than expected though. I probably wouldn't worry about it.

Not used the chiller yet, I'm just no-chill cubing it right now. Do plan to put it into use next batch though, before the ground water up here gets too hot.

Which switch did you put into the 0 position? I assume you're referring to the three way switch (boil/mash) on the right rather than than the pump switch on the left? I'm pretty sure it stays on during the boil, and when you're set to boil mode on the control panel, as it is in work mode.


----------



## carniebrew

Wadey said:


> Hi folks.
> 
> Finally got the grainfather and did a maiden brew on Saturday. So just thought I would post my experience and get some feedback. I decided to do a Aussie Lager and everything was going great guns, sparge only took about 10 minutes so that wasn't bad from what I've read. Then I started the boil and a few dramas kicked in
> 
> 1) I was worried about wort getting burnt on the bottom so in the course of trying to scrap the element I knocked the filter off, not cool. So I pushed on wasn't much I could do about, lucky I was using a hop spider.
> 2) first time using a chiller of any sort but I went through a shit tin of water. Next time I will work on the flow rates and see how it goes but I ended up throwing the fermenter in the fridge to get to 12c
> 3) other than those issue it went well
> 
> Question for the forum, I noticed the control panel work light was coming on even when I had the switch in the '0' position, is that normal?


Good work Wadey. The new T-shaped filter is a lot better for staying in place...surprised you didn't get it if your GF is brand new? You can get it here: http://www.grainfather.com.au/#!online-store/c8k/!/New-Pump-Filter/p/54211107/category=11595343

I don't reckon you'd have much luck getting the wort below low 20's with the counter-flow chiller, unless you could hook up some kind of pre-chiller ice arrangement to get the water really cold. Brewing a lager you don't have much choice to do anything other than what you did, chill it to pitching temps in the fridge.

I had that same problem with the work light coming on...and in my case the element was still kicking in even when I had the switch set to 0. It's a faulty controller, GF replaced it for me no hassles. BUT...I think the light can come on even when the element doesn't. To be sure, put a few litres of water in your GF, set the controller to say 50C, then leave the switch on 0...does it heat the water still? If not, nothing to worry about, ignore the light. If it does heat, you'll need a new controller.


----------



## Wadey

Thanks mate, will give that a try and see what happens. I did get the T type filter just must have been unlucky to bump it off. Can't wait to do another brew, no doubt things will get better with practice.

Cheers Wadey


----------



## GalBrew

I thought the switch set to '0' bypasses the temp controller. So even if the stc-200 thinks it is turning on the element, the switch set a '0' is blocking that?


----------



## Coldspace

Hey guys ,

There's a new grain father ap out now for smart phones. It's way cool, has timers for brew day, plus monitors time for fermentation, dry hopping etc. download from the ap store. 
It's good,

Cheers


----------



## Hallze

carniebrew said:


> Does yours have all the rest of the upgraded bits, just not the filter?


Hey Carnie. Yep it had all the other upgrade parts just not the filter. I have spoken to Liquorcraft in South Oakley where i bought it from and they are checking for me. They didn't even know there was a new filter.


----------



## Wadey

GalBrew said:


> I thought the switch set to '0' bypasses the temp controller. So even if the stc-200 thinks it is turning on the element, the switch set a '0' is blocking that?


Yep spot on, with the switch set to '0' no element comes on, tested this last night. Thanks guys, just threw me a bit on the first brew day.


----------



## fishingbrad

Coldspace said:


> Hey guys ,
> 
> There's a new grain father ap out now for smart phones. It's way cool, has timers for brew day, plus monitors time for fermentation, dry hopping etc. download from the ap store.
> It's good,
> 
> Cheers


Yep. used this on the weekend. sweet timers/ alarms. store your recipes. Calc's your strike & sparge water. store Notes. But they need to get it across more platforms. at this stage it is only available on iPhone/ ipad.
Also I would like the option to share recipes and may be a Ibu calculator etc. That way I don't need to use other software. I have emailed them requesting this. I ask everyone wanting to using this app to email them requesting more options to improve this app. cheers.


----------



## wildwhitty

Coldspace said:


> Hey guys ,
> 
> There's a new grain father ap out now for smart phones. It's way cool, has timers for brew day, plus monitors time for fermentation, dry hopping etc. download from the ap store.
> It's good,
> 
> Cheers


Still waiting for the Andriod app. But I have got the calculators from the GF site on a bookmark so I can do all the water calcs. on the phone. Recipes on BrewR app ATM.


----------



## carniebrew

GalBrew said:


> I thought the switch set to '0' bypasses the temp controller. So even if the stc-200 thinks it is turning on the element, the switch set a '0' is blocking that?


Yes, that's exactly how it should work, but my original controller box was faulty in that it would turn the element on even with the switch on 0.


----------



## HBHB

Wadey said:


> _Hi folks.
> 
> Finally got the grainfather and did a maiden brew on Saturday. So just thought I would post my experience and get some feedback. I decided to do a Aussie Lager and everything was going great guns, sparge only took about 10 minutes so that wasn't bad from what I've read. Then I started the boil and a few dramas kicked in
> 
> 1) I was worried about wort getting burnt on the bottom so in the course of trying to scrap the element I knocked the filter off, not cool. So I pushed on wasn't much I could do about, lucky I was using a hop spider.
> 2) first time using a chiller of any sort but I went through a shit tin of water. Next time I will work on the flow rates and see how it goes but I ended up throwing the fermenter in the fridge to get to 12c
> 3) other than those issue it went well
> 
> Question for the forum, I noticed the control panel work light was coming on even when I had the switch in the '0' position, is that normal?_


_Chilling with any more than about 3-4L per minute of water doesn't speed it up by more than a touch, so you can conserve water that way. Use of a pre-chiller with ice and water in it-especially as summer approaches will help and drop water usage to about a 1/4 of what you'd use otherwise. Setting it up with a recirculation/pump system will aid further._


----------



## Linkatme

carniebrew said:


> Good work Wadey. The new T-shaped filter is a lot better for staying in place...surprised you didn't get it if your GF is brand new? You can get it here: http://www.grainfather.com.au/#!online-store/c8k/!/New-Pump-Filter/p/54211107/category=11595343


Already ordered, it's on the way! Also, all needed components for ArdBir are on the way and... Ok, my first batch got the FG BUT...still fermenting! One more day, gravity went down of 1 point, when it will be stable I will bottle the batch!


----------



## kaiserben

welly2 said:


> I'll probably stick with my firmware-updated STC-1000 when it arrives but interested in what the ArdBir offers.


Could someone run through the different options here and tell us what extra features each brings to the table? 

I assume a STC-1000 without updated firmware will only do what the STC-200 does? 
What more will a firmware-updated STC-1000 allow you to do? (I assume allows you to program in mash/temperature steps?) 
What more will ArdBir etc allow you to do?


----------



## Spookism

So, put one of the bottles in the fridge from my first brew.
Hoping she comes out semi-decent tomorrow (or at the very least, drinkable).

I still need to get a proper fermentation set up done, but my first addition has been a hop spider.
A necessity for this kit if you ask me.


----------



## Linkatme

kaiserben said:


> I assume a STC-1000 without updated firmware will only do what the STC-200 does?


Of course yes!


----------



## ians

STC1000 has 2 relays and can control both a heater (e.g. light bulb in fridge) and a cooler (the fridge) to hold temp.
STC200 has only 1 relay so can either control a heater or a cooler


----------



## Tropico

wildwhitty said:


> Still waiting for the Andriod app.


Don't they realise that there are actually more Android user than iPhone users


----------



## McMelloW

The ArdBir is a single board Arduino Uno based system. It is open source everything is available at Github It is design for a single vessel BIAB system. And it is ready to use for the Grainfather.

In short. With the ArdBir you enter the whole process. From filling the GF up and including to cooling. It does not switch the heating on/off, but it has a PID / PWM regulation for the heating elements. Just have a look at the specs on the Facebook page


----------



## wildwhitty

Tropico said:


> Don't they realise that there are actually more Android user than iPhone users


I think writing apps for IOS is much easier than for Android. Android devices are a variable bunch.


----------



## McMelloW

Some pics of building a new controlbox for my Grainfather based on a Open ArdBir






The Open ArdBir





All components including the extra ordered





Base plate with 12v= Powersupply; SSR for the heating and relay for the pump





Box and the lid. The plugs and the wiring still has to be done





Lid details with the front panel designed by Gutosan


----------



## welly2

Looks smart! Would be interested in a cost of it all and looking forward to seeing the thing in action. Let us know how you get on!


----------



## carniebrew

Has anybody heard of (or even purchased) the "Grainbrother"? Quite a nifty little idea if you have the spare coin and want to do double batches or 2 different brews almost side by side.

http://www.brewyourownliquor.co.nz/shopmenu/all-categories/beer-making/recipes-kits/grainbrother-detail

Basically a GF without the grain basket and chiller. Pull the grain basket out of brew 1, empty it and use to mash in on the Grainbrother while #1 comes to the boil.

What I find most interesting is that the price suggests that the grain basket (and all that encompasses) and counter-flow chiller are worth nearly half the cost of the entire GrainFather.


----------



## HBHB

Yep, there's a few kicking around.

Neat way to get a double sized batch done up for an extra 90 minutes work.


----------



## Mister Wilson

Anyone had the gf element not kick in for the boil? I've finished sparge, scraped my mash paddle over the element to remove anything that had caked on during the mash but got nothing.


----------



## carniebrew

Did you flick the element switch from mash to boil?


----------



## Linkatme

MisterWilson said:


> Anyone had the gf element not kick in for the boil? I've finished sparge, scraped my mash paddle over the element to remove anything that had caked on during the mash but got nothing.


Push the reset botton at the bottom of the GF, it should work.


----------



## Mister Wilson

Thanks fellas. I tried switching off and between mash and boil.

Is the reset switch underneath? Assuming it is, is it possible to get to it with 28l of wort in the gf?


----------



## wildwhitty

Tropico said:


> Don't they realise that there are actually more Android user than iPhone users


The wait is over. 
Grainfather app. for Android at Play store now.


----------



## Tropico

I have said it before, and I will say it again: "anything that starts with "i" is "iCrap"


----------



## welly2

Tropico said:


> I have said it before, and I will say it again: "anything that starts with "i" is "iCrap"


----------



## DU99

The app i find is a pain the backside.entering grains you have to work out what crystals you want.in states in 20L,60L....i will stick with brewmate..


----------



## VanGekkum

Android app doesn't work properly. Every time I try tot start a new session I get the message that the app stopped, so I can't continue. I'm on Android 5. Anyone experienced the same problemen or ha a solution.
Thanks


----------



## Tropico

Works ok on mine, Android 5.1


----------



## wildwhitty

Android 5.1.1 is good.


----------



## Linkatme

MisterWilson said:


> Thanks fellas. I tried switching off and between mash and boil.
> 
> Is the reset switch underneath? Assuming it is, is it possible to get to it with 28l of wort in the gf?


Well....I don't think so but You could be helped by someone putting the GF on some kind of improvised stand and then You can reset it.

Hops problem: because I use pellets, hop's bags are strickly recomended!


----------



## Linkatme

MisterWilson said:


> Thanks fellas. I tried switching off and between mash and boil.
> 
> Is the reset switch underneath? Assuming it is, is it possible to get to it with 28l of wort in the gf?


Well....I don't think so but You could be helped by someone putting the GF on some kind of improvised stand and then You can reset it.

Hops problem: because I use pellets, hop's bags are strickly recomended! Without bags hops could stick somewhere in the chiller and....


----------



## Mister Wilson

I managed to tip it up enough to get 1 hand underneath and feel around for the reset button. 

I think I may have an issue with my crush. I'm running a MM mini mill and am getting quite a bit of flour. My first few brews with the gf I used a credit card to set the gap but changed on the last brew to using a feeler gauge at 1.1mm ish.

What are others using?


----------



## Carlsbergcuddles

I'm using a Cereal Killer with a gap of .44mm for most grains. I hit an 88% efficiency last week without scorching.


----------



## Coodgee

DU99 said:


> The app i find is a pain the backside.entering grains you have to work out what crystals you want.in states in 20L,60L....i will stick with brewmate..


I used the app yesterday for a brew and thought it was excellent. I wouldn't use it to formulate recipes, I formulated my recipe in beer smith and then entered the important bits into the app - for the grains I just called it 5kg of pils malt, even though there were 4 different malt types. The main benefit of the app is the timer and it stops you from forgetting things. makes the brew day run much smoother, you can do other things and not have to keep an eye on the clock so much.


----------



## DU99

Might just do that.all my recipes are in brewmate.


----------



## Coodgee

It literally tells you exactly what do, so if I'm trying to do a hundred things at once on a saturday morning, the alarm goes off in my pocket and it says "add your 10 minute boil additions, which are hop a, hop b, hop c and a wirfloc tablet".


----------



## Linkatme

MisterWilson said:


> I managed to tip it up enough to get 1 hand underneath and feel around for the reset button.
> 
> I think I may have an issue with my crush. I'm running a MM mini mill and am getting quite a bit of flour. My first few brews with the gf I used a credit card to set the gap but changed on the last brew to using a feeler gauge at 1.1mm ish.
> 
> What are others using?


I have a double mill but everytime I change malt I check the mill again to make it working great.


----------



## carniebrew

I have the Mash Master mini mill, 1.2mm gap for me


----------



## McMelloW

MisterWilson said:


> I managed to tip it up enough to get 1 hand underneath and feel around for the reset button.
> 
> I think I may have an issue with my crush. I'm running a MM mini mill and am getting quite a bit of flour. My first few brews with the gf I used a credit card to set the gap but changed on the last brew to using a feeler gauge at 1.1mm ish.
> 
> What are others using?


I have a Bulldag maltmill, two rolls. The gap is set 1.2mm or 1.3mm works OK for me.


----------



## GalBrew

MisterWilson said:


> I managed to tip it up enough to get 1 hand underneath and feel around for the reset button.
> 
> I think I may have an issue with my crush. I'm running a MM mini mill and am getting quite a bit of flour. My first few brews with the gf I used a credit card to set the gap but changed on the last brew to using a feeler gauge at 1.1mm ish.
> 
> What are others using?


I'm using the same mill at 1.1mm also. On my last brew I got 76% efficiency. You just have to make sure to not rip through the grain too fast when crushing. I use an ozito drill and go as slow as I can.


----------



## Mister Wilson

Thanks fellas

I'll up the gap to 1.3 for the next brew. I'm hand cranking the mill so it would be fair to say speed is not an issue!


----------



## Linkatme

Hi everybody, just few word to show You "problem" and "solution"!

https://flic.kr/p/zwXqFW


----------



## butisitart

no affiliation here - but i wandered into the hbs at annerley (bris) - actually i don't even know what the shop's called, but
they've still got gf for $1000 if interested. first model.


----------



## nads

I'm now on my 8th brew but have always been concerned about the time taken to chill the brew. I have purchased on Ebay a 9.5 metre copper wort chiller/ heat exchanger which I place in an esky full of ice and water and run the tap water through this and into the chiller and this has made a big difference. My mistake according to attached info from Imake is recirculating wort into the chiller to reduce temp instead of pumping straight into FV. I would be interested if anyone is doing this and if so how long does it take to chill wort down to the low 20s.

http://www.grainfather.co.nz/#!weekly-mash/cmzm/post/1749893999551876940


----------



## Oggie

Your problem Nads is your in Aussie, come down to New Zealand, less Aussies and colder tap water  , cuzzie.


----------



## GalBrew

nads said:


> I'm now on my 8th brew but have always been concerned about the time taken to chill the brew. I have purchased on Ebay a 9.5 metre copper wort chiller/ heat exchanger which I place in an esky full of ice and water and run the tap water through this and into the chiller and this has made a big difference. My mistake according to attached info from Imake is recirculating wort into the chiller to reduce temp instead of pumping straight into FV. I would be interested if anyone is doing this and if so how long does it take to chill wort down to the low 20s.
> 
> http://www.grainfather.co.nz/#!weekly-mash/cmzm/post/1749893999551876940


On my next brewday I might do a quick recirc and measure the wort out temp with my laser thermometer. I remember last time I touched the wort out hose on the chiller and even at the start it felt quite cool.


----------



## Tropico

nads said:


> My mistake according to attached info from Imake is recirculating wort into the chiller to reduce temp instead of pumping straight into FV. I would be interested if anyone is doing this and if so how long does it take to chill wort down to the low 20s.


Once I connect the counterflow chiller, I recycle into the Grainfather for 5-10 minutes without cooling water, to sterilise the chiller. Then turn on the cooling water and give it another 5-10 minutes to stabilise. The wort temp inside the Grainfather comes down to about 70-75C. By this time the filter has a good layer on it and the flow slows down considerably. The temp of wort coming out of the chiller is around 20-25C and it goes straight into the fermenter.

I don't need a huge water flow through the counter-chiller and I collect the water back into the sparge water tank, a large plastic bucket and another empty fermenter and use this for the clean-up. The sparge water tank heats the water for clean-up while the fermenter is filling. I also collect the cleaning water from the cleaning cycle and use this for the next day or 2 for cleaning other things as well.


----------



## Coldspace

I just no chill into cubes. Quicker, easier and less hassel.


----------



## Tropico

Coldspace said:


> I just no chill into cubes. Quicker, easier and less hassel.


I have thought about doing this, maybe next brew. How do you transfer from the Grainfather to cube?


----------



## carniebrew

Tropico said:


> Once I connect the counterflow chiller, I recycle into the Grainfather for 5-10 minutes without cooling water, to sterilise the chiller. Then turn on the cooling water and give it another 5-10 minutes to stabilise. The wort temp inside the Grainfather comes down to about 70-75C. By this time the filter has a good layer on it and the flow slows down considerably. The temp of wort coming out of the chiller is around 20-25C and it goes straight into the fermenter.
> 
> I don't need a huge water flow through the counter-chiller and I collect the water back into the sparge water tank, a large plastic bucket and another empty fermenter and use this for the clean-up. The sparge water tank heats the water for clean-up while the fermenter is filling. I also collect the cleaning water from the cleaning cycle and use this for the next day or 2 for cleaning other things as well.


I reckon waiting 'til 75 in the kettle is a touch overkill to be honest. I brewed on Thursday, tap water here in Melb was 13C. I hooked up the IC, waited for flameout, then recirc'd without the cold water flow to sterilise, for no more than 2-3 minutes. Wandered over to the tap, turned it on full and wandered back. After a couple more minutes the temp in the GF was 90C. Wort out hose was cool to touch, so I moved it to the fermenter. I'd forgotten to use my hop spider for this brew, so admittedly the flow coming out of wort out hose was pretty slow, but of course that just helps the chilling.

In less than 10 minutes I had 22 litres in my fermenter, sitting at 19.1C. Pitched US-05 straight on top and into the fridge it went. So from flameout to pitch was about 15 minutes. Unless your water is significantly warmer than that, then as long as you control the flow of your wort through the chiller it should work for all. Of course you can use the chiller's valve to slow the flow rather than relying on hop matter....


----------



## carniebrew

Tropico said:


> I have thought about doing this, maybe next brew. How do you transfer from the Grainfather to cube?


1.5m of silicon hose would do the trick. Buy some of a size that will snugly fit over the top of the hose on the GF's recirc arm and job done. 

I'm a no chiller from way back, but I just don't bother any more as the GF counter flow chiller is unbelievably efficient.


----------



## carniebrew

Actually if anyone's not using their counter flow chiller at all (I'm looking at you hard core no chillers!), let me know if you're willing to sell it...I have a mate who'd love to add it to his (non GF) system, but can't get the GF guys to sell him one separately.


----------



## wildwhitty

Chiller works well. Always chill straight to the fermenter not back to the kettle.


----------



## meathead

I use one of these, great piece of kit

http://www.cheekypeakbrewery.com.au/index.php/blichmann-bling/blichmann-pot-system-accessories/product/1522-1-2-blichmann-thru-thermometer?search=Bli


----------



## kaiserben

nads said:


> I'm now on my 8th brew but have always been concerned about the time taken to chill the brew. I have purchased on Ebay a 9.5 metre copper wort chiller/ heat exchanger which I place in an esky full of ice and water and run the tap water through this and into the chiller and this has made a big difference. My mistake according to attached info from Imake is recirculating wort into the chiller to reduce temp instead of pumping straight into FV. I would be interested if anyone is doing this and if so how long does it take to chill wort down to the low 20s.
> 
> http://www.grainfather.co.nz/#!weekly-mash/cmzm/post/1749893999551876940


I do it this way. It works. It's how it's designed to work. 

How long does it take? It takes as long as it takes to pump 23L from the GF into a fermenter (maybe 10 mins? I've never timed it).

For anyone recircing back into the GF while trying to chill the wort - it takes the same time minus all the time you're wasting by recircing back into the GF. Don't waste your time!!!

Unless your tap water is 20C or more you simply won't need an ice bath or pre-chillers to get wort into fermenter at low 20s. (I tried it myself. Only once. Have not wasted my time/effort with it again. Perhaps I'll change my tune in the middle of summer ...) 

The only reason I'd ever chill back into the GF is if I want to do a hop stand at a particular temperature (for example in some IPAs I'll do a stand at 75C, but this has zero to do with the process of chilling down to ferment temp).


----------



## nads

kaiserben said:


> I do it this way. It works. It's how it's designed to work.
> 
> How long does it take? It takes as long as it takes to pump 23L from the GF into a fermenter (maybe 10 mins? I've never timed it).
> 
> For anyone recircing back into the GF while trying to chill the wort - it takes the same time minus all the time you're wasting by recircing back into the GF. Don't waste your time!!!
> 
> Unless your tap water is 20C or more you simply won't need an ice bath or pre-chillers to get wort into fermenter at low 20s. (I tried it myself. Only once. Have not wasted my time/effort with it again. Perhaps I'll change my tune in the middle of summer ...)
> 
> The only reason I'd ever chill back into the GF is if I want to do a hop stand at a particular temperature (for example in some IPAs I'll do a stand at 75C, but this has zero to do with the process of chilling down to ferment temp).


Thanks kaiserben I'll most certainly do it your way next time.


----------



## kaiserben

Just to simplify the correct chilling process as outlined in that video linked above: 

1. Recirc hot wort through your Chiller and back into the GF for 10 minutes (this is only to sanitise your chiller. In my experience temp remains above 95C). 
2. Connect and start cold water tap to chiller, and keep recircing wort through chiller and back into GF for 5 minutes. 
3. Same as Step 2 but instead of running wort back into the GF run it out into a FV. 

(IMO I'm not even sure step 2 is required. Unless I'm doing hop stands I'll usually do Step 1 recirc to santise, then connect cold water and pump direct to FV. Too easy!).


----------



## Coodgee

that is good to know, I had been spending a lot of time and wasting a lot of water recircing back into the grainfather. thankyou all. 

actually, what about generating a decent cold break and leaving it behind in the kettle?


----------



## HBHB

It's all dependant on what temp your tap water is. It's all good to do any of the above steps when you have cold tap water, but this summer when the tap water comes out at 32-34 degrees C, you won't get anywhere near pitching temp without use of a pre-chiller. All that's needed is a shortish 3-4m copper coil and a six pack esky with ice, water and some salt to really drop the temp, That gets placed inline in the cooling water circuit after a 5-10 minute sanitising run, then about 10 minutes of recirculation back to the GF unit. From there, the pre-chiller is placed inline, dropped in icy cold water/slurry etc and the wort is pumped across to the fermenter. Some of the guys use recirculating water and a pump to save a fair bit.


----------



## VanGekkum

VanGekkum said:


> Android app doesn't work properly. Every time I try tot start a new session I get the message that the app stopped, so I can't continue. I'm on Android 5. Anyone experienced the same problemen or ha a solution.
> Thanks


Apparently, there's been an update on play store. Installed new version and this one works like a charm. 
Problem solved, thanks!


----------



## carniebrew

Coodgee said:


> that is good to know, I had been spending a lot of time and wasting a lot of water recircing back into the grainfather. thankyou all.
> 
> actually, what about generating a decent cold break and leaving it behind in the kettle?


Don't fear the cold break, apparently the yeasties love feasting on it. Just make sure you cold crash low and long after fermentation is complete, you won't have any issues.


----------



## Killer Brew

I am strongly considering purchasing one of these systems and am looking over it at the LHBS next Tues. It is marketed as an all in one system but am interested in others views as to whether there any vital or strongly recommended items of kit I should be looking at also to get the best out of it? I'm only looking to do single batches so capacity should be fine although I do like to brew the occasional strong beer to around 8%.


----------



## carniebrew

Killer Brew said:


> I am strongly considering purchasing one of these systems and am looking over it at the LHBS next Tues. It is marketed as an all in one system but am interested in others views as to whether there any vital or strongly recommended items of kit I should be looking at also to get the best out of it? I'm only looking to do single batches so capacity should be fine although I do like to brew the occasional strong beer to around 8%.


If you intend to sparge then an urn to sit alongside it (GF sell one specifically which is pretty well priced, but any urn capable of ~20l will do). The stainless steel mash paddle is a nice addition to, as the width is perfect for the narrower space you have given the recirc pipe in the middle of the kettle.


----------



## HBHB

Killer Brew said:


> I am strongly considering purchasing one of these systems and am looking over it at the LHBS next Tues. It is marketed as an all in one system but am interested in others views as to whether there any vital or strongly recommended items of kit I should be looking at also to get the best out of it? I'm only looking to do single batches so capacity should be fine although I do like to brew the occasional strong beer to around 8%.


You'll have no issues with beers in that range and a bit higher.


----------



## meathead

Killer Brew said:


> I am strongly considering purchasing one of these systems and am looking over it at the LHBS next Tues. It is marketed as an all in one system but am interested in others views as to whether there any vital or strongly recommended items of kit I should be looking at also to get the best out of it? I'm only looking to do single batches so capacity should be fine although I do like to brew the occasional strong beer to around 8%.


Hop spider or hop sock


----------



## tugger

With the new filter I have used 400g of pellet hops and still have good flow to the fermenter. 
I have also noticed better hop flavours without the spider. 

With the replacement top plate and seal and the new filter I am much happier with my grainfather than when I first got it.


----------



## butisitart

Killer Brew said:


> I am strongly considering purchasing one of these systems and am looking over it at the LHBS next Tues. It is marketed as an all in one system but am interested in others views as to whether there any vital or strongly recommended items of kit I should be looking at also to get the best out of it? I'm only looking to do single batches so capacity should be fine although I do like to brew the occasional strong beer to around 8%.


hopspider (although you should note above posts on upgraded system where it is perhaps not needed).
paddle - gf has a homegrown one - remember that there is a retriculation pipe up the centre of your gf, so a generic mash paddle needs to have a narrow width blade or you won't be able to use it effectively. if you buy a generic (as i did), be prepared to shave the sides off it to narrow the blade width so it works efficiently in the mash.
i use my old 19L woolies pot for sparge water heating - i have to guesstimate the sparge volume, but it's a cheap recycling of old technology.
aside from that - don't just look at it. buy the bloody thing. it's not a braumeister ferrari but it does churn out ping accurate great beers. and they get better as you learn to use it. the only other thing i'd suggest is a beersmith software or similar. i found that really helpful even at the start for things like accurate hops calculations.
would i buy one now that i've got one?? yep. simple. absolutely.


----------



## carniebrew

It definitely took me a few brews to get into a real rhythm with the Grainfather, and I'm sure that's true for any new system. But now I have things going like a well oiled machine, I'm milling while my strike water comes up to temp, measuring out hop additions and heating sparge water during the mash, cleaning the malt pipe after the boil starts, hooking up the chiller straight after the 10m hop addition...everything seems to have fallen into place nicely, making brew days so much more efficient and enjoyable.


----------



## butisitart

carniebrew said:


> It definitely took me a few brews to get into a real rhythm with the Grainfather, and I'm sure that's true for any new system. But now I have things going like a well oiled machine, I'm milling while my strike water comes up to temp, measuring out hop additions and heating sparge water during the mash, cleaning the malt pipe after the boil starts, hooking up the chiller straight after the 10m hop addition...everything seems to have fallen into place nicely, making brew days so much more efficient and enjoyable.


sounds like a disco i went to once in the 80s. took me a few beers to get into the rhythm with some grainmother. but now i'm a well oiled machine, milling about while my strike water comes up. i can almost hear john travolting. 

my apologies, carnie, but it just said 'jump up and bite me'


----------



## dropbear85

hey guys I'm looking at turning one of those Keg King robobrew setups into a grainfather. just wondering if one of you guys could give me the outside diameter of the bottom part of the overflow pipe? 
they sell the top part on there website so I was going to grab that but just want to make sure it fits right. 

Thanks


----------



## nads

I'm on my 9th Grainfather brew and they're getting better all the time. I've got the process down to a fine art and the last one took a lot less time than the first. I only have one concern and that is the clarity of my beer. After it's finished fermenting I cold crash for 1 week and then bottle but even though I use 1/2 a Whirfloc tablet I still get chill haze. I have read about Brewbrite and would be interested for some feedback from anybody using it.


----------



## acarey

nads said:


> I'm on my 9th Grainfather brew and they're getting better all the time. I've got the process down to a fine art and the last one took a lot less time than the first. I only have one concern and that is the clarity of my beer. After it's finished fermenting I cold crash for 1 week and then bottle but even though I use 1/2 a Whirfloc tablet I still get chill haze. I have read about Brewbrite and would be interested for some feedback from anybody using it.


I used to use brewbrite but stopped about 6 brews ago when I started using gelatin in the keg. Since then the beer clears up nicely without finings in the boil at all I recon


----------



## SimoB

Had a great brew on the grainfather... made a big mistake, though. I picked up the unit when I was cleaning and had about 20L of water in it, instead of using tyhe pump to drain it I picked it up. Dropped it because the insert for the basket popped out and that was what I was using to grip, I wish this thing had handles.

Anyway, broke the base of my unit, the plastic shroud. It came right off and I've called grainfather to get a replacement. The unit is fine, but I was pretty pissed off at myself as it's only 4 brews old, and I love it.


----------



## Dazzbrew

Spewing mate!


----------



## Killer Brew

Thanks for the advice all. Picked up my new Grainfather today. Hanging out to do my first brew but looks like it will need to wait about a week.


----------



## butisitart

you have to wait a week?? :blink:
can't you - i dunno - get rid of the wife or leave your job or at least get a doctor's certificate so you have to stay at home or something?? :beer:


----------



## HBHB

SimoB said:


> Had a great brew on the grainfather... made a big mistake, though. I picked up the unit when I was cleaning and had about 20L of water in it, instead of using tyhe pump to drain it I picked it up. Dropped it because the insert for the basket popped out and that was what I was using to grip, I wish this thing had handles.
> 
> Anyway, broke the base of my unit, the plastic shroud. It came right off and I've called grainfather to get a replacement. The unit is fine, but I was pretty pissed off at myself as it's only 4 brews old, and I love it.


It has a handle. The controller is mounted to it.


----------



## Hallze

Just be careful as the edge on the bottom of the handle/controller mount can be real sharp. I've lost a couple of layers of skin at least once on mine.


----------



## carniebrew

Hallze said:


> Just be careful as the edge on the bottom of the handle/controller mount can be real sharp. I've lost a couple of layers of skin at least once on mine.


You didn't think to file it down after the first lot of skin? :-D


----------



## GalBrew

So to use it as a handle I have to remove the controller? Sorry but that does not make a handle in my book. Two handles like on a blichmann pot would be better.


----------



## SimoB

GalBrew said:


> So to use it as a handle I have to remove the controller? Sorry but that does not make a handle in my book. Two handles like on a blichmann pot would be better.


I agree, and I have noticed some movement in the walls of the unit where I have lifted it from this point. It's not designed to be used as a handle so I don't recommend.


----------



## kaiserben

I use the handle all the time. With or without the controller in place. 

From the official GF instruction manual: 



> • The handle on the side is only meant for transportation once the Grainfather is empty and in a cooled, non-use state




EDIT: Although I'm a bit of a rebel because I use it to lift and pour the dregs down the sink while the GF is still warm *gasp* , so that I can get on with the cleaning cycle asap. I know, right! Living life on the edge ...


----------



## SimoB

kaiserben said:


> I use the handle all the time. With or without the controller in place.
> 
> From the official GF instruction manual:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Although I'm a bit of a rebel because I use it to lift and pour the dregs down the sink while the GF is still warm *gasp* , so that I can get on with the cleaning cycle asap. I know, right! Living life on the edge ...


That makes sense - i should've read that.


----------



## kaiserben

Anyone who has got upgrade parts - would you say it's worth it? (ie the $100 for the pipes/kit and $30 for the newer filter). 

I can't decide whether to get them or not.


----------



## meathead

I've been thinking about this myself and think it's a bit rich. 
Why should we have to pay for these fixes of shortcomings just because we were early adopters?


----------



## kaiserben

meathead said:


> Why should we have to pay for these fixes of shortcomings just because we were early adopters?



To be fair, back then the GF's RRP was $1k. Now it's $1,150.


----------



## carniebrew

The new return pipe and pump connections don't make any real difference for me, but the new filter is well worth the coin.

They've got a free upgrade kit for existing users haven't they? That has some of the key new components.

There will always be new models coming out, just be thankful they even offer us the opportunity to upgrade our older model...many businesses don't.


----------



## kaiserben

carniebrew said:


> They've got a free upgrade kit for existing users haven't they? That has some of the key new components.


Yep - although it's mostly the quick disconnects that I'm interested in (which aren't in the free upgrade).


----------



## meathead

Do we know who had the free upgrade kits in Oz?


----------



## TK1

You can order the upgrades direct from the GF store in Australia, or any of the LHBS who sell the GF should be able to get it. 

I got the free upgrade kit, mainly for the overflow pipe insert as it's easier to keep track of than the little cap. New pipe connectors are better too, my original pump outlet pipe leaked by new fitting fixed it.

Will be getting the new filter too (available separately to the full upgrade kit), since I managed to knock out the old one with the paddle and the new one looks a bit more efficient.


----------



## welly2

meathead said:


> I've been thinking about this myself and think it's a bit rich.
> Why should we have to pay for these fixes of shortcomings just because we were early adopters?


Rubbish. Have you been able to make good beer with your grainfather? If so, then there's no reason why should get free upgrades. The free upgrades are just that - upgrades that make it more efficient to use. My laptop has since been upgraded with better parts since I bought it a year or so ago and there's absolutely no reason why I should get those upgrades for free. If there's a significant problem with design of your grainfather that stops it from doing the job it was designed for then you'd have an argument.


----------



## enoch

welly2 said:


> Rubbish. Have you been able to make good beer with your grainfather? If so, then there's no reason why should get free upgrades. .... If there's a significant problem with design of your grainfather that stops it from doing the job it was designed for then you'd have an argument.


The ability to readily cross thread the connector on the top of the stainless pipe, have a geyser of boiling wort shoot out the pipe if you forget the cap and have leaks around the pump are issues that affect the fitness for purpose for the purposes of Australian consumer law. The free upgrade, which is actually $13 at my lhbs, goes part way there but some adapters for the dodgy connector which incorporate a safety valve and serviceable threading solution should be included.


----------



## HBHB

I wouldn't expect a car manufacturer to give me free upgrades for a 60K 4WD, so I wouldn't hold my breath for too many free upgrades on a 1K Brew Kettle.




enoch said:


> The ability to readily cross thread the connector on the top of the stainless pipe, have a geyser of boiling wort shoot out the pipe if you forget the cap and have leaks around the pump are issues that affect the fitness for purpose for the purposes of Australian consumer law. The free upgrade, which is actually $13 at my lhbs, goes part way there but some adapters for the dodgy connector which incorporate a safety valve and serviceable threading solution should be included.



Australian consumer law doesn't have anything to do with folk who forget to follow the instructions. Where does it end? Most of the users have already disabled the "safety valve" because it tends to lead to blockages.

Just sayin'


----------



## GalBrew

HBHB said:


> I wouldn't expect a car manufacturer to give me free upgrades for a 60K 4WD, so I wouldn't hold my breath for too many free upgrades on a 1K Brew Kettle.


Agreed, I think the guys a iMake do a pretty good job of giving away the upgrades that they do. Also that is why I waited for the updated version before buying a GF. The first version of everything always has minor issues that get fixed.


----------



## carniebrew

Let's move on people...would love for this thread not to go the same way as SO many other AHB threads. This is now pretty much the *only* thing I use AHB for these days.


----------



## Diesel80

Shit carnie I leave for two years and all of a sudden you are grain to the brain. Welcome.


----------



## meathead

enoch said:


> The ability to readily cross thread the connector on the top of the stainless pipe, have a geyser of boiling wort shoot out the pipe if you forget the cap and have leaks around the pump are issues that affect the fitness for purpose for the purposes of Australian consumer law. The free upgrade, which is actually $13 at my lhbs, goes part way there but some adapters for the dodgy connector which incorporate a safety valve and serviceable threading solution should be included.


Plus one on this. And to hbhb who I bought my gf from, cars have recalls all the time. I can put up with the thread issue but nowhere did I see on the website make sure you have a towel on the floor to soak up the leaks.


----------



## butisitart

kaiserben said:


> To be fair, back then the GF's RRP was $1k. Now it's $1,150.


it's now 1150 not cos of the upgrades, but cos they realised they were popular enough and without any real competition that they could bump it without huge complaints. component part cost of upgrade minus component part cost of original is $2.31. not $150 that they have to pass on.
so in effect, we're paying for the prototype that financed them enough to put the finished product out.
a nominal $20 or $30 to cover admin and postage would be arguable fair. anything above that is not

having said all that, i haven't done the free or otherwise upgrade anyway. maybe one day, but in the meantime, i'm rolling happy enough with the unit as is.


----------



## Seaquebrew

I'm thinking the lower AUD has more to do with the increase 

Cheers


----------



## fishingbrad

As we move into summer here in Brisvegas and the tap water temp rises into the 20s, I think it's time to put the CFC away and bring out the No Chill Cubes.
I have weighted up getting a pre chiller, but thats more equipment to purchase, clean, store, ice to buy on the day and I still don't see it getting my wort down to lager pitching temps ?? I'd like to hear what others are doing coming into summer. Cheers.


----------



## welly2

fishingbrad said:


> As we move into summer here in Brisvegas and the tap water temp rises into the 20s, I think it's time to put the CFC away and bring out the No Chill Cubes.
> I have weighted up getting a pre chiller, but thats more equipment to purchase, clean, store, ice to buy on the day and I still don't see it getting my wort down to lager pitching temps ?? I'd like to hear what others are doing coming into summer. Cheers.


Being as the water temperature up this way never drops below the high 20s year round, I've done a mixture of no chilling and using an immersion chiller (pre-GF) and recirculating water through an ice bath.

I've had success with both although no chilling is definitely less of a pain in the arse. I usually finish my brewday around mid afternoon and then what I've been doing is sticking my cube in the fermenting fridge, surrounding the whole thing with sheets (fridges work better when full) and I have the temperature down from pretty much boiling to pitching temperature sometimes by late in the evenings (11-12pm) and other times I have to wait the next morning to pitch. As I move down south next month, I'm planning on taking advantage of the cooler water and give the CF chiller a first outing.

I did think about setting up a glycol chiller but to be honest, seemed like a hassle so no chilling (for the majority of beers) was the way forward for me.


----------



## Yob

welly2 said:


> Being as the water temperature up this way never drops below the high 20s year round, I've done a mixture of no chilling and using an immersion chiller (pre-GF) and recirculating water through an ice bath.
> 
> I've had success with both although no chilling is definitely less of a pain in the arse. I usually finish my brewday around mid afternoon and then what I've been doing is sticking my cube in the fermenting fridge, surrounding the whole thing with sheets (fridges work better when full) and I have the temperature down from pretty much boiling to pitching temperature sometimes by late in the evenings (11-12pm) and other times I have to wait the next morning to pitch. As I move down south next month, I'm planning on taking advantage of the cooler water and give the CF chiller a first outing.
> 
> I did think about setting up a glycol chiller but to be honest, seemed like a hassle so no chilling (for the majority of beers) was the way forward for me.


how far south you going?


----------



## kaiserben

If you don't have a ferment fridge I'd just go the no-chill option. It's so easy & convenient.


----------



## fishingbrad

Yep, have a ferment fridge but I'm still waiting up to 12hours before pinching the yeast which I don't like. also doing the no chill gives me more time to muck around with the starter, sanitize the fermentor etc, etc.
Does anyone else feel pressured/ semi stressed having everything ready at once ?


----------



## welly2

Yob said:


> how far south you going?


Ah not that south - Sydney. More south than here, anyway.


----------



## Killer Brew

I have now knocked out my first 2 brews with my Grainfather. Plenty of user errors but that is part of the learning curve. The main thing is I can already recognise the potential for the unit to considerably improve my beer through improved temp control at the mash, the constant recirculation of the wort and faster chill.

First brew was an APA with my main hiccup being the knocking off of the rubber filter cap when trying to scrape the element with the mash paddle during the boil. Didn't realise at the time but quickly became aware once I began the pump post boil and it clogged up almost immediately. This lead to me having to syphon hot wort to the fermenter, cleaning out the whole unit then running water through the pump to clear out, return the wort to the boil to sanitise and start the chill again. Led to a long brew day and only got 17L to the fermenter. Good news is that it tastes like a ripper of a beer as it nears the end of fermentation!

Second brew was a version of Doc's Golden Ale. This went a lot more smoothly initially until the sparge stuck (I blame the 25% wheat and perhaps pushing the plate down too firmly). Had to remove the top plate, give the grain a stir and recommence the sparge). After that was smooth sailing and got 23L into the fermenter at an efficiency of 80%.

In all really happy and looking forward to applying my learnings to future brews. Money well spent.


----------



## BrewedCrudeandBitter

Yeah I'm 2 brews down also and I've really enjoyed the whole experience. First was Smurto Golden using 100% Vic Secret which tasted fantastic before bottling but I'm guessing was pretty well oxidised by the time it came out of the bottle and was pretty disappointing. I can't think of any other reason for it. I suppose I'll have to seriously look into kegging which terrifies me for some reason.

I put down brew number 2 on the weekend and the whole process went very smoothly albeit with not as good a efficiency as I was hoping for (about 68%). It's an american style wheat beer that I'll throw a couple of kilos of raspberries into as fermentation starts to slow.


----------



## kaiserben

BrewedCrudeandBitter said:


> ... tasted fantastic before bottling but I'm guessing was pretty well oxidised by the time it came out of the bottle and was pretty disappointing. I can't think of any other reason for it.


I've had a couple of early batches like that (amazing straight out of fermenter, but only average after it has carbed up). 

I've become a lot more careful transferring from fermenter to bottling bucket. Not sure if that was the problem in the first place, but I've not had the same problem appear since. 

I now use tubing that goes from my fermenter tap to the bottom of the bottling bucket. Start the flow slowly until bottom of the tubing is well and truly under wort and then speed up the flow till it's safely going at full bore.


----------



## Killer Brew

Interesting. I recently did a US style pale ale that had fantastic taste before bottling but ended up with a fresh pine like flavour after bottling. Completely different. Had thought to look to my hop schedule but perhaps my racking process also needs attention.


----------



## BrewedCrudeandBitter

kaiserben said:


> I've had a couple of early batches like that (amazing straight out of fermenter, but only average after it has carbed up).
> 
> I've become a lot more careful transferring from fermenter to bottling bucket. Not sure if that was the problem in the first place, but I've not had the same problem appear since.
> 
> I now use tubing that goes from my fermenter tap to the bottom of the bottling bucket. Start the flow slowly until bottom of the tubing is well and truly under wort and then speed up the flow till it's safely going at full bore.


I generally bottle direct from the fermenter without transferring to another vessel. Before bottling I got loads of really juicy hop flavour and aroma. After bottling it came out a bit cardboardy and most of the hop flavour had fallen flat and lost the lovely citrus aroma.


----------



## kaiserben

After being a bit underwhelmed by aromas from dry hopping in primary, I tried transferring to secondary before dry hopping - and the hop aroma was definitely improved (problem being that this involves extra effort, plus there's extra chance of introducing infection or oxidation). Although I'm wondering if a bigger/better aroma boost might come by staggering out my dry hop additions rather than one big addition that I've been doing up till now? 

So there's quite a few different options to combat different issues or potential issues. 

Another method I'm about to utilise for the first time is crash chilling before transfer to bottling bucket. Up till now I didn't have a fridge for this and my dry-hopped beers ended up with a lot of hop matter in the bottle (and I'm certain this means they don't stay fresh for as long as they could).


----------



## carniebrew

kaiserben said:


> After being a bit underwhelmed by aromas from dry hopping in primary, I tried transferring to secondary before dry hopping - and the hop aroma was definitely improved (problem being that this involves extra effort, plus there's extra chance of introducing infection or oxidation). Although I'm wondering if a bigger/better aroma boost might come by staggering out my dry hop additions rather than one big addition that I've been doing up till now?
> So there's quite a few different options to combat different issues or potential issues.
> 
> Another method I'm about to utilise for the first time is crash chilling before transfer to bottling bucket. Up till now I didn't have a fridge for this and my dry-hopped beers ended up with a lot of hop matter in the bottle (and I'm certain this means they don't stay fresh for as long as they could).


What do you call "one big addition", and what's your process? 

I used to rack my pale ales/ipa's to secondary before dry hopping, but now that I'm fermenting in the SS brewbucket conicals I no longer bother. I let the beer get to final gravity, leave it there 2 or 3 days at ferment temps (e.g. 19C), then I cool it to around 12 degrees. Then dry hop straight into the fermenter at a rate of around 6-7 grams a litre...i.e. 120-140gm in a 20 litre batch. Leave that for 2-3 days, then crash the beer to around 2C for a week to ten days. By this time all the hops have settled to the bottom. I then pour off a little bit to ensure it's running clear, then transfer direct to the keg.

The hop aroma on my beers has been amazing since I started doing it like this.


----------



## kaiserben

carniebrew said:


> What do you call "one big addition", and what's your process?


My process usually quite is similar to yours, except:

1. I don't have a conical,
2. (until now) i didn't have fridge/temp control.
3. I bottle, no kegs. 

Same batch size, same ~6g/L amount, always for 3 days. I add my dry hops in a hop sock tied off at both ends. 

I've only bothered with secondary twice, but both times there was noticeable aroma improvement.


----------



## Linkatme

So, here I am! After 5 batchs I got one original stc-1000 in oredr to have more automation.

First I programmed the stc-1000 connected to an Arduino Uno, the OVBS software was my choice. Changing from stc-200 to stc-1000 in the Grainfather box was quite easy, I had only to be sure about all connections done correctly.
Then the test: one wasn't enough, I have some tips for anyone who wants to upgrade!

Switches in NORMAL and MASH positions while mashing, pump ON; NORMAL and BOIL while boiling, pump OFF. While boiling the stc-1000 is useful only to remaind hops additions.

While mashing it works fine, no need to stay beside GF for one hour at least. The only settings to be verified are:

SO: 50% means 1000W (50% of 2000W, the biggest heater); it works 50% while ramping to set temperature;
PO: 25%, 500W during mashing steps;
Ht 95° C
HO 75%
Hd 15', enough to sparge;
bO 100%
tc 0.1° C
Pd 5: the heater works 5 seconds then pause 2.

With these settings I got 0.4° C more than set temperature, I think it's the best I can do at the moment.

To stop the buzzer sound I've to press the SET botton on stc-1000, POWER to resume the program. 

During boiling, right after mash end, I set the switch on BOIL to bypass stc-1000, I think wort boils faster.

The pump: manual control is still nedeed unless a SSR is placed to bypass the switch, I prefer to control it manually.

stc-1000 isn't a piece of cake to be set for a batch but there are only 2 settings for mashing, Ptx for temperature and Pdx for duration, 6 programmable steps (0 duration means no step), and one for boiling, hdx for hops alarm (0=no addition), 4 alarms settable.

And that's it! Sorry for my English, during the next batch I hope to provide You a small video, cheers!


----------



## carniebrew

Just a little reminder for everyone to check the various connections on your chiller. The cold water in hose blew off where it connects to the brass inlet on the chiller as I ramped the flow up on yesterday's brew. Water ALL over my brewcave, but thankfully none in the beer or wrecking anything electronic.

I sat down and checked all the connections on my chiller today, pretty much everything that could be tightened needing tightening, so check yours before it happens to you!


----------



## Shibby

I did my 5th GF brew on Sunday, which was a LCPA clone. I put the new filter on the unit and didn't use the hop basket to see how it would go. It still completely blocked and I had to stir around the filter it for the pump to work. After that if was enough for the pump to keep going when transferring to Fermenter but just at a very slow rate.
Anyone else still having issues or any tips on what to do? Or just stick with the basket option?

Also for the cooling, I cooled back into itself for 5-10 mins to sanitise the line and it dropped to low 80's. I purchased a pond pump from bunnings that can transfer 1400L an hour, and put this in a large esky full of lots of ice and water. I connected the pond pump to the GF cooling unit, but at the end the temperature was around 34C in the fermenter. I was a little disappointed and expected it to be alot closer to 20. The flow rate wasnt as fast as the hose, but I thought it was still decent. It also didnt feel so hot coming out the red pipe on the end. Any tried this method or having any thoughts. I ended up glad wrapping the tap and sticking the FV in the esky of ice. It dropped close to 20 in no time. A few squirts or star san on the outside after around the tap too.


----------



## carniebrew

Shibby said:


> I did my 5th GF brew on Sunday, which was a LCPA clone. I put the new filter on the unit and didn't use the hop basket to see how it would go. It still completely blocked and I had to stir around the filter it for the pump to work. After that if was enough for the pump to keep going when transferring to Fermenter but just at a very slow rate.
> Anyone else still having issues or any tips on what to do? Or just stick with the basket option?
> 
> Also for the cooling, I cooled back into itself for 5-10 mins to sanitise the line and it dropped to low 80's. I purchased a pond pump from bunnings that can transfer 1400L an hour, and put this in a large esky full of lots of ice and water. I connected the pond pump to the GF cooling unit, but at the end the temperature was around 34C in the fermenter. I was a little disappointed and expected it to be alot closer to 20. The flow rate wasnt as fast as the hose, but I thought it was still decent. It also didnt feel so hot coming out the red pipe on the end. Any tried this method or having any thoughts. I ended up glad wrapping the tap and sticking the FV in the esky of ice. It dropped close to 20 in no time. A few squirts or star san on the outside after around the tap too.


Same hop issue for me, even in a lightly hopped weizenbock I brewed on the weekend, 40g of Helga, my flow rate was really slow into the fermenter due to all the hop matter clinging to the filter. Helps with the cooling though I suppose with the slow flow. But better sticking with the hop spider or a hop bag.

Can I check on your cooling....once it was at 80 during the recirc, did you then put the flow into the fermenter for the rest of the cooling cycle? Some people have apparently been recircing back into the Grainfather for the whole time, which doesn't work. My brews I let it get to 80 in the grainfather, then I turn off the pump, re-route the wort out into the fermenter, start the pump again and it goes in somewhere between 19 and 22C into the fermenter. The whole process takes less than 10-15 minutes.


----------



## Spookism

Just brewed my 5th as well.
Definitely the smoothest brew I've done. I did the brew without the black rubber on the end of the pump filter.Duct tape I thought was the answer, but it came off during the boil 
The hop spider definitely cleared away any fears I had about blockage, especially after the missus used it to grab the loose grain which meant minimal junk in the bottom by the time I transferred to the fermenter.

After a quick chill, the fermenter went into the fridge @ 47 degrees.
Won't call down before I go to work tonight, so I hope she's all good for a yeast infection in about 10 hours...


----------



## Coodgee

Shibby said:


> I did my 5th GF brew on Sunday, which was a LCPA clone. I put the new filter on the unit and didn't use the hop basket to see how it would go. It still completely blocked and I had to stir around the filter it for the pump to work. After that if was enough for the pump to keep going when transferring to Fermenter but just at a very slow rate.
> Anyone else still having issues or any tips on what to do? Or just stick with the basket option?
> 
> Also for the cooling, I cooled back into itself for 5-10 mins to sanitise the line and it dropped to low 80's. I purchased a pond pump from bunnings that can transfer 1400L an hour, and put this in a large esky full of lots of ice and water. I connected the pond pump to the GF cooling unit, but at the end the temperature was around 34C in the fermenter. I was a little disappointed and expected it to be alot closer to 20. The flow rate wasnt as fast as the hose, but I thought it was still decent. It also didnt feel so hot coming out the red pipe on the end. Any tried this method or having any thoughts. I ended up glad wrapping the tap and sticking the FV in the esky of ice. It dropped close to 20 in no time. A few squirts or star san on the outside after around the tap too.


I have always used hop bags with my grainfather which makes everything much neater and easier. they only cost about $5 each and you can just hang them over the side and hook the attached rope over the malt pipe and put it into the boil. Just be careful that the top of the wort will stay really hot if you recirculate the wort and put the end of the pipe coming out of the cf chiller down into the middle of the wort. This can cause you to overshoot your IBU calcs with hopstand/whirlpool additions if they are in hop bags near the surface.

That is interesting about the ice water not cooling things down as much as you anticipated. I have been thinking about doing the ice water thing too because I have a pond pump on hand. I would have expected it would be much cooler also. did you test the temperature of the water in the ice bucket? maybe it felt cool but was only a few degrees cooler than ambient?


----------



## Coodgee

my turn to report an issue... stuck sparges... for my first 3 brews with the grainfather sparging was really really fast. Like so fast that I could hardly keep the liquid above the grainbed with a 1 litre jug. This was even with a brew that was 30% wheat. However after that I started getting really slow sparges, like taking 1 or 2 hours to sparge. I have even done the same recipe as one of those early brews and the sparge was really really slow. It was the exact same grain bill and mash schedule. Also for the brews where I get the slow sparge, I also find that the wort overflows down the middle pipe for the entire mash, whereas for the first few brews after about half an hour the wort would not overflow and go crystal clear towards the end of the mash. 

The only difference was I used some ph 5.2 stabiliser instead of a teaspoon of gypsum. Could it be possible that the ph 5.2 is gumming up the mash? Doesn't seem likely but possible. Or maybe the gypsum causes the wort to flow more freely?


----------



## Shibby

Hi Carniebrew, Yes once around 80, I turned off and then put the tube into the FV, swaped from hose to ice esky (probably around 40-50L) and turned on again. 
It was probably around 35c in weather on Sunday, Im not sure whatt he water from the hose would be maybe mid 25s. But the water going in was very very cold, and came out 
probably in the 20s. The only thing I can think of would be get an even bigger pump for a faster, hose pressure like flow. 
I may also buy a proper temperture measuring device incase the sticker was telling me the outside temp which was around 35 and it said 34, and the liquid may have been cooler.


----------



## Coodgee

Well there's your answer. Those stickers are complete shit man. Have a look at a pile of them in the home brew shop. They all read different temps.


----------



## carniebrew

Maybe slowing the flow down might help, as it will give the water coming in more time to be cooled down by the ice? A couple of Blichmann thrumometers would be handy here!


----------



## carniebrew

I use one of these little units to check the temp of my wort at various stages: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Digital-Non-Contact-Infrared-IR-Thermometer-Temperature-Laser-Gun-50-to-330-/311407423099

I'm sure it's not perfectly accurate but it's a good guide to the temp of my wort...even seems to work well when I point it at the wort out hose coming out of the chiller.


----------



## Shibby

That temp gun looks pretty cool, would also be useful for testing the temp on my espresso coffee machine.


----------



## Coodgee

you can get a cheap digital stick thermometer for about $20 at most of the forum sponsors. I just sanitize it and measure the temp as it's coming out of the counter flow chiller. 

ahem... now how about some love for my sparging issues people!


----------



## Bridgey23

What's ya sparge temp? I had a couple of stuck sparges early on and increased my sparge temp to 80 deg C and haven't had a problem since. Only eight brews in so still learning though. And make sure your mash pH is close to 5.3 as I've noticed slower sparges when my mash pH was higher. 
Hope this is of some help I'm pretty much a noob still.


----------



## Coodgee

thanks Bridgey... I've been sparging at 75 degrees and that hasn't changed so I don't think it is likely to be the problem. how are you measuring your ph?


----------



## Bridgey23

I bought a pH meter on evilbay http://www.ebay.com.au/ulk/itm/231727047612 
Seems to work ok. I calibrate it before each brew. Doubles as my temp measurement too.


----------



## carniebrew

Coodgee, are you milling your own grain? If not, perhaps whoever is has changed their mill width? If you are, perhaps your rollers have moved...does your crush look any different?

How's your efficiency now compared to those early, fast sparge brews? If you're getting better efficiency it'd also suggest your crush is finer now.


----------



## Bridgey23

Also when I had a stuck sparge I lifted the top plate and gave the grain a gentle stir. Dunno if that's bad but got the sparge moving again and the beer still tasted alright to my uneducated pallet. And I couldn't wait two fucken hours[emoji6]. Sure I saw it on a grainfather vid also.


----------



## Coodgee

carniebrew said:


> Coodgee, are you milling your own grain? If not, perhaps whoever is has changed their mill width? If you are, perhaps your rollers have moved...does your crush look any different?
> 
> How's your efficiency now compared to those early, fast sparge brews? If you're getting better efficiency it'd also suggest your crush is finer now.


I am getting much better efficiency on the slow sparges actually. but I get my grain milled by craftbrewer and they assure me that the mill width has not been modified. apparently it's quite a big job to change the width so it doesn't seem like it would happen by accident. I might double check with them though. it does seem likely doesn't it. I have been thinking of getting my own mill actually. might be time.


----------



## carniebrew

That's gotta be the issue mate, much better efficiency and slower sparges has got to be your grain crush.

I know there was some interesting statements made a few months ago in this thread, but when it comes down to it it'll always be a trade off between efficiency and sparge speed.


----------



## Killer Brew

Had a stuck sparge in 1 of my 3 brews with the GF so far. It was 50% wheat though so could be the cause. Lifted the top plate and stirred. Got through ok after that.

My latest sparge of around 16L got through in just under 20 mins. This felt about right and hit efficiency of 80%.


----------



## Coodgee

So I figured out the problem and you wouldn't believe the reason... The mash paddle!! 

For my first few brews I was using a stainless serving spoon like what you would use to serve a casserole or stew. I was pouring in 75% of the grain and then only stirring the top half of the mash tun because the spoon could only reach that far. so the heavy husks were falling straight to the bottom. Then I purchased myself a proper SS mash paddle that could reach the bottom of the mash tun. I stirred the shit of the mash as I was adding the grain. I was getting the gf to stir while I added the grain. What I think was happening is that the flour was able to drop out of suspension and clog up the holes in the bottom grate and then the husks were falling on top. I came to this conclusion while I was trying to unstick a stuck sparge. Stirring the top 95% of the of the grain bed did nothing to unstick it. I had to actually scrape the bottom plate. 

So last night I went back to the original method of mashing in and the sparge went smooth as a baby's bottom! problem solved!!


----------



## Gregos

Coodgee said:


> So I figured out the problem and you wouldn't believe the reason... The mash paddle!!
> 
> For my first few brews I was using a stainless serving spoon like what you would use to serve a casserole or stew. I was pouring in 75% of the grain and then only stirring the top half of the mash tun because the spoon could only reach that far. so the heavy husks were falling straight to the bottom. Then I purchased myself a proper SS mash paddle that could reach the bottom of the mash tun. I stirred the shit of the mash as I was adding the grain. I was getting the gf to stir while I added the grain. What I think was happening is that the flour was able to drop out of suspension and clog up the holes in the bottom grate and then the husks were falling on top. I came to this conclusion while I was trying to unstick a stuck sparge. Stirring the top 95% of the of the grain bed did nothing to unstick it. I had to actually scrape the bottom plate.
> 
> So last night I went back to the original method of mashing in and the sparge went smooth as a baby's bottom! problem solved!!


I had 2 stuck sparges when starting out with the GF, got some advice off an old fella, he said to add rice hulls, a further 40 odd brews I've never had a problem.


----------



## MichaelM

I find the sparges to be quite quick, and my extract efficiency is lower compared to using a 3v system with a mash/lauter tun where recommendations are roughly 30-60 mins. Any other GF users have this issue as well.


----------



## Coodgee

The brew I did last night I got excellent efficiency with about a 20 minute sparge time. Beersmith calculated my brewhouse efficiency as 84.4%, and that's without tipping the grainfather to get all the trubby liquid out or anything. I add an extra 2 or 3 litres to the sparge volume so I collect about 29 litres and then do a 90 minute boil. The extra sparge volume gives the grain a good rinse and helps with efficiency. Also, I leave the grain basket to drain right up until the wort is about to boil. This let's as much wort drain into the boiler as possible.


----------



## carniebrew

Coodgee said:


> The brew I did last night I got excellent efficiency with about a 20 minute sparge time. Beersmith calculated my brewhouse efficiency as 84.4%, and that's without tipping the grainfather to get all the trubby liquid out or anything. I add an extra 2 or 3 litres to the sparge volume so I collect about 29 litres and then do a 90 minute boil. The extra sparge volume gives the grain a good rinse and helps with efficiency. Also, I leave the grain basket to drain right up until the wort is about to boil. This let's as much wort drain into the boiler as possible.


Which one is "brewhouse efficiency"? I don't see that in Beersmith anywhere. I use "Total Efficiency" in Beersmith as the guide as to how much gravity I'm going to get out of my grain. With my early slow sparges, e.g. lifting the malt pipe and letting it drain until I could see the top plate, then pouring a litre in at a time and waiting for it to disappear, I was getting around 82% total efficiency. It tool 30-40 minutes. Since I've starting sparging quickly, i.e adding sparge water as soon as I see the little tabs on the top plate, I'm sparging in 15-20 minutes, but getting maybe 75% total efficiency.


----------



## Coodgee

yeah brewhouse efficiency is total efficiency. you are right it is called total eff in the software. Actually in the Fermentation tab it lists "Tot efficiency" under the title of brewhouse efficiency!!

75% total efficiency is still really good. mine varies from 72-85% depending on how much sparge water I drip through and if I let the last little bit drip through before I remove the grain basket. If you add an extra couple of litres to your sparge water I reckon you would get it up > 80% efficiency. and let it drip through until your controller is just about to flash HH. I think the recipe makes a difference too. Last night's brew was with golden promise ale malt.


----------



## MichaelM

What settings to you use in your equipment profile? Not sure if mine are correct and impacting efficiency


----------



## Coodgee

I think the calculation for measured efficiency should only depend on amount and type of grain, the measured O.G and the measured batch size. It's just the amount sugar you managed to extract from the grain as a proportion of the total possible amount of sugar contained in your particular grain bill.


----------



## Coodgee

I think the calculation for measured efficiency should only depend on amount and type of grain, the measured O.G and the measured batch size. It's just the amount sugar you managed to extract from the grain as a proportion of the total possible amount of sugar contained in your particular grain bill.


----------



## botch

Hi fellas,

Finally got round to installing the upgrade kit on my GF.

I can't seem to get this leak sorted out in the new recirculation pipe valve. I've got it as tight as can go which doesn't quite get to the bottom of the thread, but still leaks. Any ideas?

Don't really want to put the old pipe back on as I've upgraded the chiller too


----------



## Killer Brew

Just checked mine for you, only has the same nylon washer i think i can see in yours. Have had no issues with leaking. Did you get spare washers with the upgrade kit? Perhaps change the washer in case the original is damaged.


----------



## carniebrew

Coodgee said:


> The brew I did last night I got excellent efficiency with about a 20 minute sparge time. Beersmith calculated my brewhouse efficiency as 84.4%, and that's without tipping the grainfather to get all the trubby liquid out or anything. I add an extra 2 or 3 litres to the sparge volume so I collect about 29 litres and then do a 90 minute boil. The extra sparge volume gives the grain a good rinse and helps with efficiency. Also, I leave the grain basket to drain right up until the wort is about to boil. This let's as much wort drain into the boiler as possible.


I mostly only do 30 minute boils theses days...


----------



## botch

Killer Brew said:


> Just checked mine for you, only has the same nylon washer i think i can see in yours. Have had no issues with leaking. Did you get spare washers with the upgrade kit? Perhaps change the washer in case the original is damaged.


Thanks for checking mate.

I just tried both of the spare washers that were sent with the upgrade kit but same deal.

Does your valve screw the whole way down the thread? My photo isn't great but if you can sort of see that it doesn't quite make it to the end. I am thinking it may be a problem with the thread. And if you say yours threads all the way down (with no thread showing) I reckon that will confirm it for me.

Thanks for the help


----------



## botch

Cancel that.

It's actually a tiny hole in the weld just below the thread.

Will contact the GF team for a replacement.


----------



## nads

I've now made 8 brews in my Grainfather and they have all been really good but the last 2 which were Dr Smurtos golden ale whilst the taste was great they needed more fizz.. I always bulk prime and bottle my brews and have always used 7gm per litre dex which on my earlier brews Citra APA's and Mad Hopper APA's was fine with plenty of fizz. I also notice there is very little trub in the bottom of the bottles compared to my other brews and wonder if maybe there was not enough yeast left after a week of cold crashing. Yeast used in both Citra APA's and Dr Smurtos was US05. I'm at a loss and would welcome any suggestions.


----------



## Linkatme

botch said:


> Thanks for checking mate.
> 
> I just tried both of the spare washers that were sent with the upgrade kit but same deal.
> 
> Does your valve screw the whole way down the thread? My photo isn't great but if you can sort of see that it doesn't quite make it to the end. I am thinking it may be a problem with the thread. And if you say yours threads all the way down (with no thread showing) I reckon that will confirm it for me.
> 
> Thanks for the help


I think one o-ring is still missing, it should be red.... No leak with it!


----------



## Killer Brew

nads said:


> I've now made 8 brews in my Grainfather and they have all been really good but the last 2 which were Dr Smurtos golden ale whilst the taste was great they needed more fizz.. I always bulk prime and bottle my brews and have always used 7gm per litre dex which on my earlier brews Citra APA's and Mad Hopper APA's was fine with plenty of fizz. I also notice there is very little trub in the bottom of the bottles compared to my other brews and wonder if maybe there was not enough yeast left after a week of cold crashing. Yeast used in both Citra APA's and Dr Smurtos was US05. I'm at a loss and would welcome any suggestions.


Sounds like a decent amount of primer (though i use table sugar not dex). How long have the bottles been conditioning and at what temp? There will still be enough yeast there to get the job done.


----------



## nads

The two Dr Smurtos lacking fizz have both conditioned long enough I think. The first was bottled 26/9 and the last one 8/11 and at temps over 20 degrees. In the second one I used table sugar not dex thinking this may increase the bubbles but they are both pretty much the same. The other thing I noticed about these two brews is that they took a lot longer to finish fermenting than the earlier Citra APA's at around two weeks.


----------



## Killer Brew

nads said:


> The two Dr Smurtos lacking fizz have both conditioned long enough I think. The first was bottled 26/9 and the last one 8/11 and at temps over 20 degrees. In the second one I used table sugar not dex thinking this may increase the bubbles but they are both pretty much the same. The other thing I noticed about these two brews is that they took a lot longer to finish fermenting than the earlier Citra APA's at around two weeks.


You are right, should be plenty of time. Are you confident that the priming liquid was dispersed evenly in the wort and bottled straight away?


----------



## nads

Yes as I always transfer wort from FV to bulk prime vessel via hose curled on the bottom so as to swirl the wort as it fills and also give it a gentle stir before bottling. I always tip sugar into bulk prime vessel and pour in around 500 ml boiling water to dissolve sugar and immediately start to transfer wort which is at 2 degrees after cold crashing for a week. Perhaps the hot water kills off some of the yeast was another thought I had, however I have always done it the same way and not had a problem with my other brews.


----------



## Coodgee

Maybe you are recycling bottles/caps and they are not quite as airtight as they were previously?


----------



## HBHB

I'm not sure how valid the fear of transferring to a secondary vessel and related infection risks are. Never experienced any issues personally. Transferring off the yeast cake for secondary and adding the hops won't increase the risk of infection any more than using a bottling bucket and bulk priming. Good cleaning, sanitising and a slow and steady transfer should minimise any risks.


----------



## carniebrew

nads said:


> The two Dr Smurtos lacking fizz have both conditioned long enough I think. The first was bottled 26/9 and the last one 8/11 and at temps over 20 degrees. In the second one I used table sugar not dex thinking this may increase the bubbles but they are both pretty much the same. The other thing I noticed about these two brews is that they took a lot longer to finish fermenting than the earlier Citra APA's at around two weeks.


I'd be a bit suss on yeast health/viability. What was the yeast you used, and how did you prepare it for pitching? Any off flavours in the end beer such as green apple? Certainly nothing wrong with your bulk priming practice from what you've said.

One of the guys in our club had batch after batch coming out with acetaldehyde...finally figured out it was the yeast he was buying...this shop was re-packaging bulk US-05 into their own sachets, poorly it seems, hence he was significantly under-pitching each batch. He went back to original us-05 and the problem disappeared.


----------



## nads

I used US05 which I also used on my previous Citra APA and that was fine. Purchased from the same hb store which always keeps everything fresh, never had an issue with anything purchased there. The beer tastes great except it's lacking bubbles. I always pitch the yeast by aerating the wort and sprinkling the yeast on top.


----------



## Spookism

Shout out to the guys from GrainFather.

Misplaced my black cap on my filter, sent an email asking for just that.
They sourced a whole new filter and sent it out.

Great customer service


----------



## Mattress

Gave my Grainfather it'd maiden run 2 days ago, had a couple of issues which I think are related to my grain crush being too fine, but I thought I'd check with you guys to see if there is anything else I should consider.

When I ran the G/F through it's test cycle a few days earlier using just water, the wort chiller worked brilliantly, with the water coming out of the outlet hose quite warm. On brew day it didn't work quite so well, the outlet hose water temp. wasn't that much different from what was going in, and the hose into the fermenter quite slow and not that cold either. When cleaning up I found a heap of malt/break material all over the pump screen, but not much from my hops. The hop material was mainly left on the side of the G/F about 3/4 of the way up on the wall of the unit.

When working out my recipe using beersmith, I used the equipment profile posted by Wambesi earlier in this thread, using a total efficiency rating of 75% I ended up with an estimated O/G of 1.054. On Brew day I ended up with an O/G of 1.060.

When I crushed my grain I fiddled with the rollers and ended up with grain that wasn't crushed enough and a lot of kernels uncracked, so I ran it through the mill a second time, which unfortunately resulted in a fair bit of flour

Will going to a coarser grain crush help with these problems?


----------



## Coodgee

The filter is always covered in break material. That is normal. The water coming out of the hot pipe of the chiller should be too hot to touch. If the wort was flowing out of the chiller and not trickling then it should be working ok.


----------



## HBHB

nads said:


> I used US05 which I also used on my previous Citra APA and that was fine. Purchased from the same hb store which always keeps everything fresh, never had an issue with anything purchased there. The beer tastes great except it's lacking bubbles. I always pitch the yeast by aerating the wort and sprinkling the yeast on top.


Beer lacking bubbles is just a problem with bottle carbonation. Could be insufficient sugar at bottling, could be leaking caps, could be lack of time in the bottle, could be the yeast has flocked out and might just need more time. Nothing to do with how it was pitched if it's fermented out properly.

Hope that helps a little.


----------



## welly2

Having a bit of a mash efficiency problem. Got 64% efficiency today. Was expecting 1.050 pre-boil gravity, got 1.042. OG ended up at 1.047 - was expecting 1.056. I think it's one or a combination of a few things -


grain crush isn't right - I'm using 0.50 on my keg king malt muncher. Next brew day (next weekend probably) I'm going to try closer to 0.25.
sparging is too quick although it did take about 20 minutes today. Perhaps should slow it down even more.
mash/wort ph not right?
Oh, perhaps the calculations on beersmith - which really isn't suited to the grainfather - were off but I guess aren't a million miles off.
I'm going to start with the next batch by changing the grain crush and then will see about sparging. Other than that, brew day went well! Was making a strong IPA, now it'll be a moderate pale ale, which is fine too!


----------



## carniebrew

welly2 said:


> Having a bit of a mash efficiency problem. Got 64% efficiency today. Was expecting 1.050 pre-boil gravity, got 1.042. OG ended up at 1.047 - was expecting 1.056. I think it's one or a combination of a few things -
> 
> 
> grain crush isn't right - I'm using 0.50 on my keg king malt muncher. Next brew day (next weekend probably) I'm going to try closer to 0.25.
> sparging is too quick although it did take about 20 minutes today. Perhaps should slow it down even more.
> mash/wort ph not right?
> Oh, perhaps the calculations on beersmith - which really isn't suited to the grainfather - were off but I guess aren't a million miles off.
> I'm going to start with the next batch by changing the grain crush and then will see about sparging. Other than that, brew day went well! Was making a strong IPA, now it'll be a moderate pale ale, which is fine too!


What's the 0.5? Is that a KK thing? Do you know what gap your rollers are set at in mm? I've found 1.2mm with my mashmashter minimill is giving me the best combination of efficiency and sparge speed. I'm around 74% and can sparge 10 litres in less than 10 minutes. I have had over 80% efficiency in some early brews but my sparge would take 45 minutes. Bugger that for the sake of a few cents.

My crush is looking a lot like this these days: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TLGDDxIoOyo/VjohqmkSb8I/AAAAAAAAAgY/ZA3dcGZnRW8/s1600/ideal%2Bcrush.JPG


----------



## welly2

carniebrew said:


> What's the 0.5? Is that a KK thing? Do you know what gap your rollers are set at in mm? I've found 1.2mm with my mashmashter minimill is giving me the best combination of efficiency and sparge speed. I'm around 74% and can sparge 10 litres in less than 10 minutes. I have had over 80% efficiency in some early brews but my sparge would take 45 minutes. Bugger that for the sake of a few cents.
> 
> My crush is looking a lot like this these days: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TLGDDxIoOyo/VjohqmkSb8I/AAAAAAAAAgY/ZA3dcGZnRW8/s1600/ideal%2Bcrush.JPG


Actually I think it is 0.050 and I reckon they might be referring to inches so 0.050 of an inch? Perhaps or maybe it's just some proprietary measurement. Your crush looks a bit more crushed than mine. I'm going to try the credit card gap trick and see how that is. I've got some throwaway grain I can test it out on anyway. I'd make another beer this weekend coming if I had the room in my fermenting fridge to ferment it. Oh well.

I've just checked and 0.050 is 1.27mm. I'm going to try a little narrower anyway with this test grain and see what the go is.


----------



## welly2

Couple of questions. I used the grainfather chiller for the first time. Worked pretty well given it was a hot day in Sydney yesterday. It didn't bring the temperature down to pitching temp but did bring it down to about 33c. I stuck it in my fermenting fridge overnight to chill for the rest. It was a bit low this morning when I went to pitch the yeast - about 16 but that's within US-05s parameters so pitched it anyway. It looks like cold break has formed overnight - I think it must have been a bit of a colder night - I'm getting a heat belt to hopefully fix that though, my STC-1000 currently only has the fridge plugged into it.

Question is - will cold break in my fermenter have any adverse effects? Secondly, is there a more economical or a better way of running the chiller on hot days? Perhaps I could use my pond pump to use iced water in an esky rather than coming straight from the tap. I used surprisingly little water (which may explain chilling only getting down to 33c) - I reckon about 30 litres, perhaps a bit more.


----------



## postmaster

Hi welly2 I have the same crusher. I have settled on .39 of an inch or .99 mm (.39 x 2.54 = .9906mm). It take me about 20 minutes to sparge. 16 litres. I use beersmith and my average total efficiency is 78%. Mash efficiency 85%. I use a preboil volume of 29.25 litres for a 60 minute boil for batch of 23 litres. Usually my gravity is within 1 point either way. Hope this is of some help..


----------



## Coodgee

welly2 said:


> Couple of questions. I used the grainfather chiller for the first time. Worked pretty well given it was a hot day in Sydney yesterday. It didn't bring the temperature down to pitching temp but did bring it down to about 33c. I stuck it in my fermenting fridge overnight to chill for the rest. It was a bit low this morning when I went to pitch the yeast - about 16 but that's within US-05s parameters so pitched it anyway. It looks like cold break has formed overnight - I think it must have been a bit of a colder night - I'm getting a heat belt to hopefully fix that though, my STC-1000 currently only has the fridge plugged into it.
> 
> Question is - will cold break in my fermenter have any adverse effects? Secondly, is there a more economical or a better way of running the chiller on hot days? Perhaps I could use my pond pump to use iced water in an esky rather than coming straight from the tap. I used surprisingly little water (which may explain chilling only getting down to 33c) - I reckon about 30 litres, perhaps a bit more.



what makes you say you've got cold break in the fermenter? are there a lot of white coagulated particles floating around in the wort? I think classic brewing technique teaches that we should try to let that cold break settle in the kettle and only put as much clear wort in the fermenter as possible but I don't think many people care about this any more. particular the no-chillers who dump 100% of the cold break in the fermenter. I try to let the wort settle in the grainfather for about 20 mintues after chilling it down to about 30 degrees to let the suspended particles drop out a bit, but I don't think it's critical.


----------



## tugger

Cold break in the fermenter Is good for the yeast. 
The only way is to pre chill the water going into the cf chiller with your old immersion chiller in line And in a bucket of ice.


----------



## welly2

Coodgee said:


> what makes you say you've got cold break in the fermenter? are there a lot of white coagulated particles floating around in the wort? I think classic brewing technique teaches that we should try to let that cold break settle in the kettle and only put as much clear wort in the fermenter as possible but I don't think many people care about this any more. particular the no-chillers who dump 100% of the cold break in the fermenter. I try to let the wort settle in the grainfather for about 20 mintues after chilling it down to about 30 degrees to let the suspended particles drop out a bit, but I don't think it's critical.


There was a fair bit of protein looking substances in the fermenter that looked a lot like cold break but actually I've since read this morning that some cold break is good so I'm not going to worry too much about that.

When you say you let the wort settle in the grainfather after chilling - are you recirculating through the chiller back into the grainfather rather than out to your fermenter? Or are you not using the counter flow chiller that comes with the grainfather?


----------



## Coodgee

welly2 said:


> There was a fair bit of protein looking substances in the fermenter that looked a lot like cold break but actually I've since read this morning that some cold break is good so I'm not going to worry too much about that.
> 
> When you say you let the wort settle in the grainfather after chilling - are you recirculating through the chiller back into the grainfather rather than out to your fermenter? Or are you not using the counter flow chiller that comes with the grainfather?


I'm recirculating it for about 20 minutes back into the grainfather. anyone who says the CF chiller is meant to work by running it through once and straight into the fermenter has not tried it during a QLD summer. that would give me a fermenter of wort at about 45 degrees.


----------



## Killer Brew

welly2 said:


> Secondly, is there a more economical or a better way of running the chiller on hot days? Perhaps I could use my pond pump to use iced water in an esky rather than coming straight from the tap. I used surprisingly little water (which may explain chilling only getting down to 33c) - I reckon about 30 litres, perhaps a bit more.


Increasing the flow through of water and running the wort out slowly maximises heat transfer. Obviously the lowest temp you can achieve using the CFC as designed is that of the tap water. You could try something like you suggested but is it really worth it? For me the main function of the CFC is to bring the temp down quickly to below the level at which any chemical changes continue to happen, so setting the flavours as such. I'm happy to give the wort the extra time it might need to get to pitching temp. Throwing it in the fridge for an hour generally gets it there.


----------



## carniebrew

Killer Brew said:


> Increasing the flow through of water and running the wort out slowly maximises heat transfer. Obviously the lowest temp you can achieve using the CFC as designed is that of the tap water. You could try something like you suggested but is it really worth it? For me the main function of the CFC is to bring the temp down quickly to below the level at which any chemical changes continue to happen, so setting the flavours as such. I'm happy to give the wort the extra time it might need to get to pitching temp. Throwing it in the fridge for an hour generally gets it there.


This is exactly what I do this time of year. In colder temps I can get my wort down to 18-22 at which point I'll pitch straight away. But the last couple of brews have been closer to 25C, so 1-2 hours in the fermenting fridge gets me to 22 and I pitch.

The pond pump likely won't work well as it won't be able to create the high pressure/flow rate you need to optimise heat transfer. Pre chilling the water before it goes in would certainly help, but it's more costly and time consuming so I don't bother.


----------



## welly2

Fair points and that all makes sense. I'm possibly going to make another brew on Saturday so will take all this advice onboard!

Cheers


----------



## HBHB

Coodgee said:


> I'm recirculating it for about 20 minutes back into the grainfather. anyone who says the CF chiller is meant to work by running it through once and straight into the fermenter has not tried it during a QLD summer. that would give me a fermenter of wort at about 45 degrees.


Pre-chilling the cooling water is definitely a plus at this time of year. You only need about 4m of copper in a small esky with ice, water and a handful of pool salt to crank the temp down low.


----------



## Batz

I have an old water cooler (the drinking fountain type) I used it to cool chiller water at one time. Works and has a 1/2" ball value. Bit old but free to anyone who wants it.


----------



## fletcher

just got my GF and am very pumped to get some brews done on it. has anyone thought of any genius ways of easy sparging? forgive me as i've read through about 20 pages of this thread and gave up 

EDIT: for clarity, i have a separate kettle and will, thus far, be releasing water slowly through its valve, via silicone tubing into the open GF. wanted to know if people had any clever ways to automate this process more.


----------



## Coodgee

You can automate it to the extent that you don't have to tip jugs of water in but you will still have to stand there because you never know how fast it will run through. I suppose you could fully automate it with a float valve or something


----------



## carniebrew

I've been toying with the idea of this: http://www.blichmannengineering.com/products/autosparge

Not sure how to integrate it with my Grainfather sparge urn but I'll get around to it at some stage.


----------



## Coodgee

That'd do it!


----------



## Killer Brew

Just went for my biggest grain bill yet in the GF, 6.5kg for an IPA. Was expecting my efficiency would come down some from the 80%+ i have been enjoying up until now but got a poor 61% which has really thrown my numbers out. Had been targeting 1073 but came in at 1058 and that was after i picked up the issue in the preboil gravity and extended my boil time by 30 mins delivering 1L less than anticipated into fermenter.

Can't put my finger on the reason. Mash went as planned, no dough balls, recirc through the grain bed appeared good, no issues with my sparge. Rechecked my mash and sparge water calcs and they were fine. Anyone got any ideas?


----------



## TwoCrows

Large amount of grain requires the correct Ph and grain mill size to convert fully.


----------



## Killer Brew

Haven't had an issue previously doing high gravity in BIAB.


----------



## welly2

Hmm.. having a brew day today and my grain was crushed more than usual and it seems most of the wort is going down the overflow pipe. Well, it's a bit hard to tell but a lot of it is. Is this going to be a problem? I guess I'll see at the end of the mash if my efficiency is 0!

Edit. Grain was definitely too finely crushed. I'll have another go maybe tomorrow or Sunday on another batch. It actually worked out alright in the end. The sparge was slow (took about an hour) and I don't think it's going to be as clear a beer as I have previously experienced, however efficiency was spot on.


----------



## Futur

Has anyone done a 9kg mash in the GF?

I plan on doing it on the reg for some of my house beers to save time by diluting a concentrated wort for a double batch by boiling one batch in my crown urn and the other in my GF. 

I've be interested to see what efficiencies people are getting with these large grain bills!


----------



## Coodgee

There is some talk of 9kg batches throughout this thread


----------



## enoch

If you go for 8 plus kg hold back some of your mash water until after you mash the grain in. Then put the top filter on top and add the last few litres.
I found it a pain to get the filter on with the full water as the mash started escaping through the lifting holes.


----------



## Killer Brew

TwoCrows said:


> Large amount of grain requires the correct Ph and grain mill size to convert fully.


Just looked into the published 2014 water report for Adelaide and most areas showing average ph levels of 7 - 8 so well above the optimum 5.3 usually stated for brewing. You may be on to something. Can't work out why I didn't have the same issue pre-Grainfather though.


----------



## Futur

Killer Brew said:


> Just looked into the published 2014 water report for Adelaide and most areas showing average ph levels of 7 - 8 so well above the optimum 5.3 usually stated for brewing. You may be on to something. Can't work out why I didn't have the same issue pre-Grainfather though.


Killer there is a lot more involved in hitting the optimum mash PH than just looking at your tap water PH. I suggest reading the water knowledge area of the bru n water site and using their spreadsheet to hit correct mash PH numbers. https://sites.google.com/site/*brunwater*/

I just had a thought when it comes to improving efficiency of large grain bill double batches on the grainfather by utilising more sparging water. Has anyone tried using a larger volume of sparging water (greater than the grainfathers ~30L capacity) and used the pump to pump the excess mash water into a second kettle as extra capacity while recirculating from this kettle this back into the GF using gravity? This would all be done while sparging.

For a double batch you could potentially use all of your dilution water as sparge water which would have to improve efficiency numbers as the volume of sparge water you can use in the GF greatly drops off as the grain bill size increases.

Thoughts?


----------



## Futur

I set up a bit of a dry run to see if this was actually achiveable and it seemed to work no problems at all. The pump was able to move a decent amount of liquid up to that height. Most likely I'll use a cube with a tap instead of a fermenter for the hot wort.


----------



## Killer Brew

Is there a way to punch what you are doing into brewing software? Am wondering what impact it might have on the target SG. To be clear you are talking about siphoning off the overflow post sparge into a separate kettle and doing a mini boil before adding back in to the main vessel once evaporation has created space?


----------



## Futur

Killer Brew said:


> Is there a way to punch what you are doing into brewing software? Am wondering what impact it might have on the target SG. To be clear you are talking about siphoning off the overflow post sparge into a separate kettle and doing a mini boil before adding back in to the main vessel once evaporation has created space?


Not quite, I'm suggesting using a second vessel as an accumulator to take the extra volume during sparging but maintaining recirculation of the wort between both vessels during the sparge. 

Essentially this allows a greater volume of sparge water to be used. One sparging is finished the batch is split into two and one boil is done in the GF and the other in an urn. 

Does that make sense?


----------



## Killer Brew

Futur said:


> Not quite, I'm suggesting using a second vessel as an accumulator to take the extra volume during sparging but maintaining recirculation of the wort between both vessels during the sparge.
> 
> Essentially this allows a greater volume of sparge water to be used. One sparging is finished the batch is split into two and one boil is done in the GF and the other in an urn.
> 
> Does that make sense?


Yep, split batch, got it. I think the way I suggested might also worked and with a more furious boil with a smaller volume in the urn before being put back into the GF could maybe lift the gravity higher.


----------



## Coldspace

I double batch always with Grainfather , same time but get 2 cubes.

I start with 23 ltrs, at strike temp then leave on mash low heat setting while stirring in,then slowly mash in my 8.5 to 9 kgs max of grains, slow and steady stir and stab with paddle up and down like mixing up concrete.

Usually once I've stirred in about 7 kgs of grain, I swing the top pipe over the top of the grain bed, start pump, and pump approx 2 -3 ltrs of water ontop.
This then makes it much easier to mash the final 2 kgs in.

I usually then mash for 75 mins and do 20 min mash out at 78. This helps with sparging.

Then, I just keep sparging till I see it dripped upto the 30 ltr mark.

I then place the malt pipe into an old esky and sparge it with another 6 ltrs of water and just let the last goodness run out into esky while I boil. You can take top plate of, give the grain a stir and sparge with final water, I find I get the last sugars totally out. Then Usually about 7 to 8 ltrs trickles out into esky which works out perfect for top ups and keeps efficiency up. Sit the malt pipe ontop of a Tupperware container etc to keep it off the floor of esky or bucket to catch second sparge runnings.
I then use this final runnings to top up the boil while doing my additions,
Just top up slowly so the boil is not killed, or I have an immersion heater from my previous brewing days which is use to ramp up the temps in between strike and boils to save time.

When my boil is done, I top right to top , about 10mm from lip with runnings or boiled water .

I then wait for the temp to drop to about 90-92 degrees, then pump straight into 2 x 15 ltr cubes that I saved from fresh wort kits, or you can buy 15 ltr containers.

The full double batch Grainfather fills 2 of these perfectly to the top.

Seal, and leave, I also add my hop additions I would normally use at sub 15 mark into little hop socks straight into the cubes.

What I have now is an over gravity for style 15 ltr cube, actually more like 16 lts.

When time to ferment, I dump into fermenter and top up to 21 ltrs.

I usually get OG of 1.046 to 1.048 which is plenty for me, and I get 2 x 19 ltr kegs from one cook up.

Last sat, while doing yard work etc, I got 2 double batches , so 4 cubes of a nice pilsener and pale ale , and allowing for my immersion heater to save time and everything took about 7 hrs.start to cleaned and packed up. Also managed to mow yard and take kids to shops in between mash times to keep SWMBO happy. Lol
Espescially using no chill, saves heaps of water and about 30 mins per Cook up. It's a no brainer.
Unless doing a high grav brew, double batch all the way.

I've done about 25-30 double batches now, and works a treat.

Hope this helps.


----------



## nads

I need some advice re Dr Smurtos Golden Ale. Recipe calls for 66 deg mash temp but does not give a time would this be 60 or 90 min ? Also would it be worthwhile to include a protein rest?


----------



## MastersBrewery

DSGA is mashed for 60mins at 66c. No protein rest, though I usually throw in a 10 min at 72c then mash out at 78


----------



## Coodgee

I'm doing consecutive batches in my grainfather at the moment. I pumped out the first batch into my birko urn while i was sparging.worked well. Now I'm boiling the first batching and mashing the second.


----------



## nads

Thanks MastersBrewery I'll follow your suggestion.


----------



## Coldspace

Coodgee said:


> I'm doing consecutive batches in my grainfather at the moment. I pumped out the first batch into my birko urn while i was sparging.worked well. Now I'm boiling the first batching and mashing the second.


Good idea,

I've got a spare urn, mite try and get 3 double batches out in a day .


----------



## Coodgee

Coldspace said:


> Good idea,
> 
> I've got a spare urn, mite try and get 3 double batches out in a day .


Turned out to be a fairly long day in the end. I can only chill one brew at a time because i only have the chiller that came with the grain father. Maybe i should try and no chill a batch. I've always liked to have my wort sealed up with yeast added before i go to bed though.


----------



## kaiserben

I'm troubleshooting a stuff up from a couple of weeks back when I tried to brew my first truly BIG beer, an attempt at a RIS. 

I used Beersmith to draft up a recipe and was aiming for OG of 1.102. 

I dropped the efficiency setting down to 62% and set the batch size to 16L. 

I used 8.05kg grains and 250g sugar. 

The Grainfather calculator suggested I use 25.24L mash water and 2.20L sparge. (in the end I did 23L at mash and 4.5L at sparge). 

I forgot to do any water chemistry additions. (EZ Water suggested my mash pH would be 5.54 without any additions, so not expecting a massive issue here). 

Mashed for 60 mins at 67C. Mash out for 10 mins at 75C. 

Actual OG into the fermenter (was well mixed) ended up being only 1.068. Missed my target by a whopping 34 points. 

I then realised I forgot to add that 250g sugar. I reckon this would explain a loss of about 6 points of gravity, so no idea how to explain the other 28 or so points. Any ideas? Have a stuffed up a calculation/setting somewhere?


----------



## HBHB

Got me mate. But that really blows.

I'd hazard a guess to say big cereal balls or poor flow through the grain bed, but either way, those small sparges aren't going to do much of a wash out. Personally, I'd be looking to do a slightly thicker mash and reserve a bit more water for the sparge. Be worth while to do a big addition of malt extract to up the gravity where you wanted it,


----------



## Coodgee

after the 4.5L sparge, was the grainfather full to the brim? you can keep sparging until you get right up to 30L+ of wort collected.


----------



## kaiserben

Is there any use, at this late stage (been in fermenter for 16 days, and planned to leave it there at least another week anyway), boiling up some malt extract to bump it up a bit?

Not necessarily hoping to emulate my initial target of 1.102, but would like to at least get it within RIS style guidelines.


----------



## HBHB

worth a try


----------



## Coodgee

My personal preference in that situation would be to enjoy a nice all grain "regular" stout and go for an ris next brew.


----------



## carniebrew

kaiserben said:


> I dropped the efficiency setting down to 62% and set the batch size to 16L.
> 
> Actual OG into the fermenter (was well mixed) ended up being only 1.068. Missed my target by a whopping 34 points.


I reckon 62% is way too high for a really big 1.100+ high grav brew. Closer to 50%. But I'd be keen to hear what others have experienced with super high gravity brews in the GF.


----------



## Wadey

Hi all.

Ive just finished my 3rd brew on the grainfather and I'm finding that I'm not hitting the 28ltr pre boil volumes. I seem to be up to 2ltrs short. Today's brew was only 26.5lts pre boil. My sparges are only taking about 10 minutes and I let the grain drain while the kettle is coming up to a boil.

Any suggestions as to what the issue might be?

Cheers


----------



## nads

I've done 8 brews on the Grainfather and they have all been between around 1 - 2 liters short of the 28 ltr pre boil volume. I've just added 2 or so liters extra to my sparge water and continue to sparge till the wort hits the 28 ltr mark.


----------



## Reedy

I had the exact same experience with my first brew on the Grainfather last weekend, and only ended up with 19L in the fermenter instead of the 23L as stated in the recipe.

Used the mash/sparge volumes stated, but was short in both post & pre boil volumes. No issues with gravity though, spot on at 1.050, so no idea what the issue is.

For my next brew, I will continue sparging until I reach the target pre-boil volume.


----------



## carniebrew

Wadey said:


> Hi all.
> 
> Ive just finished my 3rd brew on the grainfather and I'm finding that I'm not hitting the 28ltr pre boil volumes. I seem to be up to 2ltrs short. Today's brew was only 26.5lts pre boil. My sparges are only taking about 10 minutes and I let the grain drain while the kettle is coming up to a boil.
> 
> Any suggestions as to what the issue might be?
> 
> Cheers


Volumes shouldn't matter as much as your expected gravity. If you're trying to make say a 5% beer, then getting your pre-boil gravity correct will matter a lot more than if you've got 26.5 litres or 28 litres pre boil.

When you say you're not hitting 28l pre boil volumes, what's telling you that you should? A recipe? Beersmith or other software? Did you hit your target gravities, or were you over/under?? It's impossible to tell what's going on without all the information.


----------



## Wadey

Thanks guys, sounds like I'm not alone with this one, hitting target gravity no problems so I will just add more sparge water to hit the 28ltr mark. I'm am plugging my recipe into the grainfather calculator and using the app, which aims for a 28ltr pre boil. The only other thing is that the grain bills have been , 5, 3.1 and 4.5kg


----------



## Futur

Same here, did an IPA yesterday and using the Andrew Hammond Beersmith Profile I hit 24L pre boil volume when 26L was my target. The Andrew Hammond beersmith profile calculations are identical to the Grainfather calculations so there may be an issue with grain absorption numbers??

This has also happened for all my other previous batches, mind you my OG has been spot on or only a point off each time. It would be nice to know what to adjust to hit the correct volume for each batch....


----------



## btrots87

Did my first grainfather brew on the weekend, hit all my volumes perfectly but my efficiency was really low, around 58% brewhouse efficiency. Not really sure why, my sparge seemed really quick so maybe it was channeling through the grain bed.

I've got another brew planned for next weekend, I'll see if it improves before I get too concerned. Beer tastes good out of the fermenter so far though.


----------



## carniebrew

btrots87 said:


> Did my first grainfather brew on the weekend, hit all my volumes perfectly but my efficiency was really low, around 58% brewhouse efficiency. Not really sure why, my sparge seemed really quick so maybe it was channeling through the grain bed.
> 
> I've got another brew planned for next weekend, I'll see if it improves before I get too concerned. Beer tastes good out of the fermenter so far though.


There does seem to be an emerging theme of fast sparge and lower efficiency being directly related to the grain not being milled finely enough.


----------



## btrots87

I'm getting the grain crushed when I buy it since I don't have my own mill yet. Website said their mill was set at 1.2mm as standard, should I ask for a smaller gap next time? 

Won't help for this weekend since I already have the grain.


----------



## MastersBrewery

Mill gap is different for every mill, so 1.2mm crush on a Mash Master is diferent to that off a Monster Mill, and different again on a Crankenstien or Maltmuncher. And different brewing methods need differing crush, hence having your own mill is handy. Maybe have your HBS run the grain through twice.


----------



## carniebrew

See how you go with this weekend's batch, if it comes out with similar efficiency then if you can get them to mill it more finely you should at least try.

Any chance you could upload some photos of your currently milled grain? Would be good to compare it to some of the pics on here: http://www.grainfather.com/#!weekly-mash/cetx/post/2563839464746745922


----------



## Futur

btrots87 said:


> I'm getting the grain crushed when I buy it since I don't have my own mill yet. Website said their mill was set at 1.2mm as standard, should I ask for a smaller gap next time?
> 
> Won't help for this weekend since I already have the grain.


Did you let the grain bed drain and then move the top plate down on top of the grain bed before sparging?


----------



## Coodgee

Futur said:


> Did you let the grain bed drain and then move the top plate down on top of the grain bed before sparging?


I never do that. I start sparging immediately and don't touch the top plate and no problems with efficiency here.


----------



## Futur

Coodgee said:


> I never do that. I start sparging immediately and don't touch the top plate and no problems with efficiency here.


I've done both methods and noticed improved efficiency by moving the top plate down to the top of the grain bed. This is the reason I asked, not to mention that it's the recommended method in accordance with the grainfather instructional videos.


----------



## btrots87

Futur said:


> Did you let the grain bed drain and then move the top plate down on top of the grain bed before sparging?


Yeah, lifted the grain, pushed the top plate down till it was just sitting on top of the grain and started sparging. 

Can't upload any photos atm but to my untrained eye the crush looks pretty similar to the grainfather website.


----------



## Chridech

Hello Grainfather Brewers

The recent conversations on this thread are about mash efficiency and the various effects of grain bill size, mill crush and sparging technique. As I'm new to AHB and brewing in general I've been scrolling through a lot of the forum threads recently. The information I have learned from this thread in particular has been invaluable. So thank you all. Given that many of us have come up against similar problems I thought I should summarise the best recommendations (dating back to to the threads beginnings!) and throw in my two cents worth after the grand total of two GF brews. I'll try to stick to GF specifics.

1.* Pay attention to water chemistry and mash pH*
This may be obvious to the seasoned brewers but it wasn't something I paid much attention to initially, just threw in some Gypsum and didn't test pH. Many of you may be using RO or distilled water and are building your water profile from scratch (so you must know what your doing). I'm using boiled tap water and adding salts/distilled water. For my second brew I used the Bru'n water spreadsheet. Contacted my local water authority for average scheme water salt and pH values.

The first brew I didn't have a pH meter and I suspect my mash pH was nowhere near low enough and was a factor in poor mash efficiency (56%). The second time around I tested pH. I boiled the mash and sparge water the evening before to drive off chlorine. To my surprise the pH went from 7.1 pre-boil to 9.1 post boil. This is because boiling tap water drives C02 out of solution, lowering the bicarbonate concentration (removing temporary hardness). I therefore had to revise my salt and acid additions to achieve the desired mash pH (5.2 to 5.5). A pH meter is very helpful and got one for $49 at the LHBS . Also remember to add salts and acid to your sparge water to achieve a pH of 5.5.

*2. Grain crush size does matter*.
My first brew's mash efficiency was poor and consequently under shot OG by 20 points. In retrospect grain crush was a factor amongst others. I bought the grain pre-crushed and now that I know more about it realise it was far too coarse. It's said LHBS generally undermill (if you don't specify) as they don't want to be accused of creating a stuck sparge. For my second brew I purposely used a Grainkids Kit (The Belgian Witbier) as I wanted to see the crush size Amake used. The crush was a lot finer and I hit the OG bang on. I have a mill on order and will be playing around with crush size. Carniebrews share yesterday of graincrush recommendations on the GF Weekly Mash post is a good guide. http://www.grainfath...839464746745922

*3. Sparging*
There has been lot's of talk regarding the best method to sparge. I haven't even come close to a stuck sparge (probably to do with crush size.) Start sparging straight after I pull up the mash tun and all over in 5 minutes, both times. The premature sparge, don't tell my wife. I was so concerned the first time that I might have been channeling sparge water through the grain bed that I removed the top mash plate half way through and gave it a good stir. It didn't seem to make any difference, probably worse. Others in this thread have reported sparge times as low as 5 minutes and some up to an hour. I think that if it goes through easily then don't worry too much, the GF people seem to think it should take up to 15 minutes. If you experiencing a slow/stuck sparge perhaps give it a stir. Advice in this thread suggests that if you wait too long for the mash tun to drain before sparging, the grain bed will compact too much and you are more likely to get a stuck/slow sparge. Use rice hulls if you have a big grain bill with lots of unhusked grain (e.g., rye or wheat). A 10 min mashout at 75C before sparging will also help the wort be more fluid and provide an easier sparge. 

4. *The Boil*
You should have hit the boil button as soon as you started sparging. Faster that way. Wait for the hot break before starting the timer for the boil. Even though Amake don't think it's required, use a Hop Spider or Sock, especially for large hop additions. So many brewers on this thread have found their pump has clagged with hops during the chill when they have big hop additions. My first brew was a hoppy APA and I dumped the hops straight in. It took me almost an hour to pump the wort into the fermenter because of the massive hop trub around the filter. Consequently my 5 minute hop addition hung around at 80+ degrees for ages so I way overshot on IBUs and didn't get the aroma I wanted. Second brew had a puny hop addition as it was a Belgian Wit but there was 5 minute Coriander and (powdered) Orange Peel addition. Chucked all this in the hop spider and had no problems with the pump. Piss easy to clean up as well.

5. *Using the Counterflow Chiller*
*​*What a cool piece of kit eh? Some debate in this thread about how long you should recirculate before dumping into the FV. The argument is that if you re-circulate until you get the wort down to 40 degrees or so you leave the cold break in the boiler rather than transferring it to the FV. But cold break is supposed to be good food for Yeasties and you should be able to leave the cold break in the primary anyway. Still haven't worked out what is best but I'm siding with the 'dump it straight into the FV camp' for now. 

The chiller is most efficient if there is a high temperature gradient between the cooling water and the wort. On hot days when ground water is 28 degrees plus and you are anal about rapid chilling it is worth using a pre-chiller. A few months ago there was good advice given about using an immersion chiller coil in a bucket of ice water laced with pool salt to cool your tap water before it enters the counterflow. Tried this is on the weekend and it worked a treat. I'll take a photo next time. Other threads state that rapid chilling is over-rated and as you know there is whole tribe of no-chillers out there. It probably matters most if you are brewing a lager and don't want to hang around for ages whilst your wort chills in the fridge down to pitching temp.

Start counterflow chilling with the side-arm tap barely open and adjust the flow of wort and tap water to achieve cool wort. When the wort out hose feels cool lift it out of the boiler and direct it into the FV. If you are really worried about temp measurement you can stick a thermometer in a sample, or if you are really fancy there is something called a 'Thrumometer' which you can plumb in and measures the wort temp in the line. Around $50 at my LHBS but I don't think I'll bother. 

I reckon that if you don't achieve a rapid chill don't sweat it. Some on this forum have said that Palmer's advice about the importance of rapid chilling is over-rated. Just let the wort cool in the FV until it reaches pitching temp and chuck it in the fermenting fridge to speed things up if you have one.


*6. Cleaning Up*
Clean up straight away. Clean your mash tun whilst the wort is boiling. Dismantle it entirely and dry throroughly. I have seen pictures of rusty bottom perforated plates where the nut traps water against it. Best to dismantle. The Grainfather cleaner solution seems to work fine especially if you recirculate at 50 degrees as per the recommendation. There may be just as suitable and cheaper cleaning solutions but for now I'm happy with the recommended stuff.


Well there you have it. A newbies limited experience. Please take me to task if i've said anything outrageous.

Cheers

Chris


----------



## carniebrew

Chridech said:


> Hello Grainfather Brewers
> <snip>
> 
> *3. Sparging*
> There has been lot's of talk regarding the best method to sparge. I haven't even come close to a stuck sparge (probably to do with crush size.) Start sparging straight after I pull up the mash tun and all over in 5 minutes, both times. The premature sparge, don't tell my wife. I was so concerned the first time that I might have been channeling sparge water through the grain bed that I removed the top mash plate half way through and gave it a good stir. It didn't seem to make any difference, probably worse. Others in this thread have reported sparge times as low as 5 minutes and some up to an hour. I think that if it goes through easily then don't worry too much, the GF people seem to think it should take up to 15 minutes. If you experiencing a slow/stuck sparge perhaps give it a stir. Advice in this thread suggests that if you wait too long for the mash tun to drain before sparging, the grain bed will compact too much and you are more likely to get a stuck/slow sparge. Use rice hulls if you have a big grain bill with lots of unhusked grain (e.g., rye or wheat). A 10 min mashout at 75C before sparging will also help the wort be more fluid and provide an easier sparge.
> 
> 5. *Using the Counterflow Chiller*
> *​*What a cool piece of kit eh? Some debate in this thread about how long you should recirculate before dumping into the FV. The argument is that if you re-circulate until you get the wort down to 40 degrees or so you leave the cold break in the boiler rather than transferring it to the FV. But cold break is supposed to be good food for Yeasties and you should be able to leave the cold break in the primary anyway. Still haven't worked out what is best but I'm siding with the 'dump it straight into the FV camp' for now.
> 
> <snip>


Great work Chris, really comprehensive. Couple of questions/points from me...

With your sparge, you mention your crush between brews 1 and 2 was very different, with the grainkids crush being a lot more fine. But your sparge speed (5 mins) was the same on both, is that right? The one thing that's been putting me off going back to a finer mill size is the memory of the 45m sparge I had when I last did it...but admittedly back then I didn't know the trick about starting the sparge as soon as you pull the malt pipe up. So I guess the slow sparge must be a lot more to do with the latter (which is good to know as I've just closed my mill gap significantly for my next brew).

Re: chilling...I hadn't heard/read the advice about chilling to 40C before racking to the FV, I reckon that's madness. I chill for around 5 minutes, the wort in the GF would be around 80C or so by then, then I go straight into the FV. Depending on the time of year it's anywhere between 21C and 26C. If it's 22C or below I pitch straight away, above that I'll let it cool in the fridge first. And as you say, an army of no-chillers have completely disproved any myths about having to chill quickly...but even if it's taking you 30m to chill your brew from 100C to under 50C, that's still considered quick chilling.

Oh and hop spiders...I've done quite a few big hoppy pales using both spider and straight into the GF...I don't mind either way in terms of transferring to FV, as I find the filter being clogged acts as a natural way to slow down the transfer, making the chiller more effective....i.e. no need to change the valve on the side-arm or chiller itself. But I couldn't agree more on the ease of clean up when I use my stainless hop spider...and I haven't found it affects my hop utilisation at all...it's almost half the size of the GF itself so there's plenty of room for the boil to extract what it needs (and I find myself regularly stirring it during the boil anyway).

Cheers again for the write-up, it'd be good to make this a sticky post somehow.


----------



## welly2

Chridech said:


> Hello Grainfather Brewers
> .
> .
> .
> Well there you have it. A newbies limited experience. Please take me to task if i've said anything outrageous.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Chris


Some great stuff here. Cheers Chris!


----------



## Chridech

Thanks Carniebrew

With your sparge, you mention your crush between brews 1 and 2 was very different, with the grainkids crush being a lot more fine. But your sparge speed (5 mins) was the same on both, is that right? The one thing that's been putting me off going back to a finer mill size is the memory of the 45m sparge I had when I last did it...but admittedly back then I didn't know the trick about starting the sparge as soon as you pull the malt pipe up. So I guess the slow sparge must be a lot more to do with the latter (which is good to know as I've just closed my mill gap significantly for my next brew).

Yes, my post is ambiguous. I think the grainbills for both brews (both just shy of 6kg) weren't large enough to cause a sparging issue and neither were a particularly fine crush. Just that the second was finer than the first which was definitely way too coarse. There was little or no flour in the second (finer) grain bill but it was enough of a crush to expose all the endosperm from the pilsener malt and free up the husks. There was also whole rolled oats in this second (finer) grain bill which may have assisted with ease of sparging. There is not much point quoting mill gap sizes, as it has been pointed out earlier in the thread, as it varies so much depending on the type of mill used. I found a technical article comparing grain crush with various mills (but not the Mashmaster) which I will post when I work out how to do it!

One brewer theorised earlier in the thread that starting the sparge immediately keeps the grain bed fluid and assists with the ease of sparge. As long as you are getting a good flow through the grain bed with the specified amount of sparge water at the correct temp (at least 75C) and acidity (pH 5.5) then a quick sparge hopefully won't adversely effect efficiency.

Re: chilling...I hadn't heard/read the advice about chilling to 40C before racking to the FV, I reckon that's madness. I chill for around 5 minutes, the wort in the GF would be around 80C or so by then, then I go straight into the FV. Depending on the time of year it's anywhere between 21C and 26C. If it's 22C or below I pitch straight away, above that I'll let it cool in the fridge first. And as you say, an army of no-chillers have completely disproved any myths about having to chill quickly...but even if it's taking you 30m to chill your brew from 100C to under 50C, that's still considered quick chilling.

Agree. I just get impatient to pitch the yeast!

Oh and hop spiders...I've done quite a few big hoppy pales using both spider and straight into the GF...I don't mind either way in terms of transferring to FV, as I find the filter being clogged acts as a natural way to slow down the transfer, making the chiller more effective....i.e. no need to change the valve on the side-arm or chiller itself. But I couldn't agree more on the ease of clean up when I use my stainless hop spider...and I haven't found it affects my hop utilisation at all...it's almost half the size of the GF itself so there's plenty of room for the boil to extract what it needs (and I find myself regularly stirring it during the boil anyway).

Yes, if you argue that taking an hour to chill doesn't actually matter, then having hops packed around the filter is a good thing as the GF people point out. With my large hop addition the pump was very slow (1 hour) but didn't block. Others in this thread have posted that the pump blocked completely such that they had to rack the wort out the boiler rather than use the pump. Worse still, if I remember correctly, one brewer posted that he knocked the pump filter off with the mash paddle when trying to free hops off the bottom to improve flow. That would make for a bad afternoon brewing.

I also think that if its going to be unpredictable how long it going to take to chill, it will have a bearing on your IBU calculations. I reckon last minute hop additions that hang around in hot wort for up to an hour are going to lose their aroma and contribute to undue bitterness. So it's a hop spider for me because it gives more control.

What do you think about performing a whirlpool? Meant to try it with the second brew but forgot. Also if you leave a large hop spider in place it cant be done, but would probably be achievable with a hop sock?

Cheers again for the write-up, it'd be good to make this a sticky post somehow.

I've got some thoughts on Grainmaster profiles for Brewsmith recipe formulation and boil volume shortfalls but will post when I've thought about it some more.

Cheers

Chris

*Edited by carniebrew, Today, 07:02 AM.*


----------



## carniebrew

Chridech said:


> Oh and hop spiders...I've done quite a few big hoppy pales using both spider and straight into the GF...I don't mind either way in terms of transferring to FV, as I find the filter being clogged acts as a natural way to slow down the transfer, making the chiller more effective....i.e. no need to change the valve on the side-arm or chiller itself. But I couldn't agree more on the ease of clean up when I use my stainless hop spider...and I haven't found it affects my hop utilisation at all...it's almost half the size of the GF itself so there's plenty of room for the boil to extract what it needs (and I find myself regularly stirring it during the boil anyway).
> 
> Yes, if you argue that taking an hour to chill doesn't actually matter, then having hops packed around the filter is a good thing as the GF people point out. With my large hop addition the pump was very slow (1 hour) but didn't block. Others in this thread have posted that the pump blocked completely such that they had to rack the wort out the boiler rather than use the pump. Worse still, if I remember correctly, one brewer posted that he knocked the pump filter off with the mash paddle when trying to free hops off the bottom to improve flow. That would make for a bad afternoon brewing.
> 
> I also think that if its going to be unpredictable how long it going to take to chill, it will have a bearing on your IBU calculations. I reckon last minute hop additions that hang around in hot wort for up to an hour are going to lose their aroma and contribute to undue bitterness. So it's a hop spider for me because it gives more control.
> 
> What do you think about performing a whirlpool? Meant to try it with the second brew but forgot. Also if you leave a large hop spider in place it cant be done, but would probably be achievable with a hop sock?


I've done some heavily hopped beers but haven't found it block the pump completely, or to a level where transferring out takes an hour. But I do think I'll use the hop spider for my hoppy beers going forward, it just makes a number of things easier and I haven't found any drawbacks.

In terms of a whirlpool, I actually conversed directly with iMake on the subject...they suggested that an actual whirlpool isn't necessary with the grainfather...a post-boil whirlpool is primarily aimed at trying to get a good trub cone in the centre of the boiler, away from the boiler's ball valve outlet. The GF's filter/pump setup means that cone isn't necessary. Instead you can just do a hop stand at flameout...which is really just the same thing without having to create an actual whirlpool. I've been following that myself for 6 months or so myself with good results.


----------



## bradsbrew

Chridech said:


> Hello Grainfather Brewers
> 
> The recent conversations on this thread are about mash efficiency and the various effects of grain bill size, mill crush and sparging technique. As I'm new to AHB and brewing in general I've been scrolling through a lot of the forum threads recently. The information I have learned from this thread in particular has been invaluable. So thank you all. Given that many of us have come up against similar problems I thought I should summarise the best recommendations (dating back to to the threads beginnings!) and throw in my two cents worth after the grand total of two GF brews. I'll try to stick to GF specifics.
> 
> 1.* Pay attention to water chemistry and mash pH*
> This may be obvious to the seasoned brewers but it wasn't something I paid much attention to initially, just threw in some Gypsum and didn't test pH. Many of you may be using RO or distilled water and are building your water profile from scratch (so you must know what your doing). I'm using boiled tap water and adding salts/distilled water. For my second brew I used the Bru'n water spreadsheet. Contacted my local water authority for average scheme water salt and pH values.
> 
> The first brew I didn't have a pH meter and I suspect my mash pH was nowhere near low enough and was a factor in poor mash efficiency (56%). The second time around I tested pH. I boiled the mash and sparge water the evening before to drive off chlorine. To my surprise the pH went from 7.1 pre-boil to 9.1 post boil. This is because boiling tap water drives C02 out of solution, lowering the bicarbonate concentration (removing temporary hardness). I therefore had to revise my salt and acid additions to achieve the desired mash pH (5.2 to 5.5). A pH meter is very helpful and got one for $49 at the LHBS . Also remember to add salts and acid to your sparge water to achieve a pH of 5.5.
> 
> *2. Grain crush size does matter*.
> My first brew's mash efficiency was poor and consequently under shot OG by 20 points. In retrospect grain crush was a factor amongst others. I bought the grain pre-crushed and now that I know more about it realise it was far too coarse. It's said LHBS generally undermill (if you don't specify) as they don't want to be accused of creating a stuck sparge. For my second brew I purposely used a Grainkids Kit (The Belgian Witbier) as I wanted to see the crush size Amake used. The crush was a lot finer and I hit the OG bang on. I have a mill on order and will be playing around with crush size. Carniebrews share yesterday of graincrush recommendations on the GF Weekly Mash post is a good guide. http://www.grainfath...839464746745922
> 
> *3. Sparging*
> There has been lot's of talk regarding the best method to sparge. I haven't even come close to a stuck sparge (probably to do with crush size.) Start sparging straight after I pull up the mash tun and all over in 5 minutes, both times. The premature sparge, don't tell my wife. I was so concerned the first time that I might have been channeling sparge water through the grain bed that I removed the top mash plate half way through and gave it a good stir. It didn't seem to make any difference, probably worse. Others in this thread have reported sparge times as low as 5 minutes and some up to an hour. I think that if it goes through easily then don't worry too much, the GF people seem to think it should take up to 15 minutes. If you experiencing a slow/stuck sparge perhaps give it a stir. Advice in this thread suggests that if you wait too long for the mash tun to drain before sparging, the grain bed will compact too much and you are more likely to get a stuck/slow sparge. Use rice hulls if you have a big grain bill with lots of unhusked grain (e.g., rye or wheat). A 10 min mashout at 75C before sparging will also help the wort be more fluid and provide an easier sparge.
> 
> 4. *The Boil*
> You should have hit the boil button as soon as you started sparging. Faster that way. Wait for the hot break before starting the timer for the boil. Even though Amake don't think it's required, use a Hop Spider or Sock, especially for large hop additions. So many brewers on this thread have found their pump has clagged with hops during the chill when they have big hop additions. My first brew was a hoppy APA and I dumped the hops straight in. It took me almost an hour to pump the wort into the fermenter because of the massive hop trub around the filter. Consequently my 5 minute hop addition hung around at 80+ degrees for ages so I way overshot on IBUs and didn't get the aroma I wanted. Second brew had a puny hop addition as it was a Belgian Wit but there was 5 minute Coriander and (powdered) Orange Peel addition. Chucked all this in the hop spider and had no problems with the pump. Piss easy to clean up as well.
> 
> 5. *Using the Counterflow Chiller*
> *​*What a cool piece of kit eh? Some debate in this thread about how long you should recirculate before dumping into the FV. The argument is that if you re-circulate until you get the wort down to 40 degrees or so you leave the cold break in the boiler rather than transferring it to the FV. But cold break is supposed to be good food for Yeasties and you should be able to leave the cold break in the primary anyway. Still haven't worked out what is best but I'm siding with the 'dump it straight into the FV camp' for now.
> 
> The chiller is most efficient if there is a high temperature gradient between the cooling water and the wort. On hot days when ground water is 28 degrees plus and you are anal about rapid chilling it is worth using a pre-chiller. A few months ago there was good advice given about using an immersion chiller coil in a bucket of ice water laced with pool salt to cool your tap water before it enters the counterflow. Tried this is on the weekend and it worked a treat. I'll take a photo next time. Other threads state that rapid chilling is over-rated and as you know there is whole tribe of no-chillers out there. It probably matters most if you are brewing a lager and don't want to hang around for ages whilst your wort chills in the fridge down to pitching temp.
> 
> Start counterflow chilling with the side-arm tap barely open and adjust the flow of wort and tap water to achieve cool wort. When the wort out hose feels cool lift it out of the boiler and direct it into the FV. If you are really worried about temp measurement you can stick a thermometer in a sample, or if you are really fancy there is something called a 'Thrumometer' which you can plumb in and measures the wort temp in the line. Around $50 at my LHBS but I don't think I'll bother.
> 
> I reckon that if you don't achieve a rapid chill don't sweat it. Some on this forum have said that Palmer's advice about the importance of rapid chilling is over-rated. Just let the wort cool in the FV until it reaches pitching temp and chuck it in the fermenting fridge to speed things up if you have one.
> 
> 
> *6. Cleaning Up*
> Clean up straight away. Clean your mash tun whilst the wort is boiling. Dismantle it entirely and dry throroughly. I have seen pictures of rusty bottom perforated plates where the nut traps water against it. Best to dismantle. The Grainfather cleaner solution seems to work fine especially if you recirculate at 50 degrees as per the recommendation. There may be just as suitable and cheaper cleaning solutions but for now I'm happy with the recommended stuff.
> 
> 
> Well there you have it. A newbies limited experience. Please take me to task if i've said anything outrageous.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Chris





Chridech said:


> Thanks Carniebrew
> 
> With your sparge, you mention your crush between brews 1 and 2 was very different, with the grainkids crush being a lot more fine. But your sparge speed (5 mins) was the same on both, is that right? The one thing that's been putting me off going back to a finer mill size is the memory of the 45m sparge I had when I last did it...but admittedly back then I didn't know the trick about starting the sparge as soon as you pull the malt pipe up. So I guess the slow sparge must be a lot more to do with the latter (which is good to know as I've just closed my mill gap significantly for my next brew).
> 
> Yes, my post is ambiguous. I think the grainbills for both brews (both just shy of 6kg) weren't large enough to cause a sparging issue and neither were a particularly fine crush. Just that the second was finer than the first which was definitely way too coarse. There was little or no flour in the second (finer) grain bill but it was enough of a crush to expose all the endosperm from the pilsener malt and free up the husks. There was also whole rolled oats in this second (finer) grain bill which may have assisted with ease of sparging. There is not much point quoting mill gap sizes, as it has been pointed out earlier in the thread, as it varies so much depending on the type of mill used. I found a technical article comparing grain crush with various mills (but not the Mashmaster) which I will post when I work out how to do it!
> 
> One brewer theorised earlier in the thread that starting the sparge immediately keeps the grain bed fluid and assists with the ease of sparge. As long as you are getting a good flow through the grain bed with the specified amount of sparge water at the correct temp (at least 75C) and acidity (pH 5.5) then a quick sparge hopefully won't adversely effect efficiency.
> 
> Re: chilling...I hadn't heard/read the advice about chilling to 40C before racking to the FV, I reckon that's madness. I chill for around 5 minutes, the wort in the GF would be around 80C or so by then, then I go straight into the FV. Depending on the time of year it's anywhere between 21C and 26C. If it's 22C or below I pitch straight away, above that I'll let it cool in the fridge first. And as you say, an army of no-chillers have completely disproved any myths about having to chill quickly...but even if it's taking you 30m to chill your brew from 100C to under 50C, that's still considered quick chilling.
> 
> Agree. I just get impatient to pitch the yeast!
> 
> Oh and hop spiders...I've done quite a few big hoppy pales using both spider and straight into the GF...I don't mind either way in terms of transferring to FV, as I find the filter being clogged acts as a natural way to slow down the transfer, making the chiller more effective....i.e. no need to change the valve on the side-arm or chiller itself. But I couldn't agree more on the ease of clean up when I use my stainless hop spider...and I haven't found it affects my hop utilisation at all...it's almost half the size of the GF itself so there's plenty of room for the boil to extract what it needs (and I find myself regularly stirring it during the boil anyway).
> 
> Yes, if you argue that taking an hour to chill doesn't actually matter, then having hops packed around the filter is a good thing as the GF people point out. With my large hop addition the pump was very slow (1 hour) but didn't block. Others in this thread have posted that the pump blocked completely such that they had to rack the wort out the boiler rather than use the pump. Worse still, if I remember correctly, one brewer posted that he knocked the pump filter off with the mash paddle when trying to free hops off the bottom to improve flow. That would make for a bad afternoon brewing.
> 
> I also think that if its going to be unpredictable how long it going to take to chill, it will have a bearing on your IBU calculations. I reckon last minute hop additions that hang around in hot wort for up to an hour are going to lose their aroma and contribute to undue bitterness. So it's a hop spider for me because it gives more control.
> 
> What do you think about performing a whirlpool? Meant to try it with the second brew but forgot. Also if you leave a large hop spider in place it cant be done, but would probably be achievable with a hop sock?
> 
> Cheers again for the write-up, it'd be good to make this a sticky post somehow.
> 
> I've got some thoughts on Grainmaster profiles for Brewsmith recipe formulation and boil volume shortfalls but will post when I've thought about it some more.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Chris
> 
> *Edited by carniebrew, Today, 07:02 AM.*


Joisus,

If I didn't know better I would think PistolPatch has started a second account.


----------



## Coodgee

All hail PP. Hail the great man.


----------



## Wadey

Great work Chris


6. Cleaning Up
Clean up straight away. Clean your mash tun whilst the wort is boiling. Dismantle it entirely and dry throroughly. I have seen pictures of rusty bottom perforated plates where the nut traps water against it. Best to dismantle. The Grainfather cleaner solution seems to work fine especially if you recirculate at 50 degrees as per the recommendation. There may be just as suitable and cheaper cleaning solutions but for now I'm happy with the recommended stuff.


Might go without saying but I also pull the ball valve and tap assembly apart, even after the cleaner has gone through hop debris can be left behind, then let it air dry.


----------



## Chridech

Good point Wadey. Forgot to do this during cleanup on the weekend. Judging by the number of small grain particles that made it through the pump and sat on top of the mash plate when recirculating there is very likely to be some left in the ball valve.


----------



## Brooa

I've noticed that the protein stain on the bottom of the boiler takes quite a bit of scrubbing to get off (even after recircing the GF cleaner for a while). Has any one else had this problem?


----------



## meathead

Brooa said:


> I've noticed that the protein stain on the bottom of the boiler takes quite a bit of scrubbing to get off (even after recircing the GF cleaner for a while). Has any one else had this problem?


Yes, lemon juice works well after rinsing and drying.


----------



## Wadey

Small amount of starsan works a treat also.


----------



## Reedy

I was halfway through doughing in a 7.56kg grain bill earlier today when I inadvertently knocked the top overflow pipe & the grain stopper into the basket with my mash paddle.

I raised the basket & let the water drain through the grain bed until I could retrieve the pipe & stopper. Once replaced, I lowered the basket back into the water, gave it a good stir, and continued doughing in. It's now mashing at 64c for the next 60mins.

My concern is that some of the grain will no doubt have made it's way through the bottom overflow pipe, and will therefore be in the boiler post mash/sparge.

I am considering sanitising a SS kitchen strainer and skimming as much as I can out before boiling, but just wanted to know if anyone else had encountered this,and how you resolved it.

FWIW it's a black rye ipa with the following grain bill;
- 6.12kg BB ale
- 750g rye
- 230g cara rye
- 230g carafa special T3
- 230g chocolate wheat


----------



## carniebrew

Yeah my first couple of brews my bottom plate was a bit warped and some grain was getting through...just use the strainer like you suggested leading into/during the boil and you shouldn't have any issues. During the boil I find any grain in the wort is frequently brought to the top by the air bubbles so they're easy to capture.


----------



## Coodgee

Yeah if you skim the foam most of the bits of grain get caught up in it or are rising to the surface and getting tossed around in the boil. Random scooping of the top third of the wort should get most of it. No need to sanitise the strainer as the wort is boiling.


----------



## Camsteele

Has anyone tried doing smaller batches? I'm thinking of brewing up a few 10L test batches. I usually use the GF Android app for water calculations, so I assume that would work most things out, but just wondering if I'd run into other issues.


----------



## paulyman

My GF and Urn arrived today. Just read through the instructions to set it up, seemed pretty straight forward. The only bit that wasn't terribly clear was the step where I had to connect the discharge pipe to the silicone tubing on the pump outlet, exactly how far do I have to try and push the discharge tube in? Mine went in but not very far and appears to be secured with the black oring provided, as far as I can see it looks like it does in the GF upgrade video on their website.


----------



## Seaquebrew

Same story with mine when I got it

Pushed on to limit, ran with water, no leaks

Has not been a problem all brews since 

Cheers


----------



## paulyman

Cool. I'll do a leak test and clean if it passes the leak test tomorrow. Then hopefully a brew or two on Sunday, planning two simple Blonde Ales to start with, same recipe one with Saaz and one with Tett.


----------



## paulyman

Passed the leak test. Now going to do a clean and test boil with water to see how it goes.


----------



## paulyman

Just completed a 20L boil test. The rise from tap water temp to 90 was pretty good, didn't actually time it though, I was pottering around the garden. Took 10-15 minutes for the final rise to the boil, although the controller stayed at 99. Given it only shows 1 degree increments I guess that's okay, seemed vigorous enough and was definitely at a gentle roll.

Need to put a dedicated circuit or two out the back anyway, that might help speed things up not having to compete with fridges etc for power?


----------



## Seaquebrew

You will go to boil from mash temperature, put it to boil as soon as you lift the malt pipe to sparge

An extra circuit will make no difference 

When are you doing your first brew and what will it be?

Cheers


----------



## paulyman

Hopefully doing a brew or two tomorrow, just a simple Blonde Ale, one with Saaz and one with Tett.

Probably get the circuits put out the back anyway, will come in handy regardless and avoid the chances of tripping anything, with the current setup the wife often trips the breakers when she forgets I'm brewing and turns on the kettle or toaster or microwave.


----------



## stuartf

Snap reedy, did the exact same thing today when trying to stir in my grain, managed to fish the pipe out with my paddle and reinstall. Glad it isn't just me and I had just read your post before I did it. My current issue is that the temp seems stuck on 99, occasionally getting to 100 (hh) which is very annoying as the alarm keeps beeping when it flicks over to 100. Has this happened to anyone before? Last brew was fine (well apart from 40% efficiency but I've tracked that back to be down to poor crush from hbs). Don't really think its an issue brew wise that it is sitting between 99 & 100 just annoying when the alarm keeps going off.


----------



## paulyman

Hey mate, just had that on my first boil test today. Sat at 99, never went higher. It was definitely boiling, I think it is just the stc200 only showing 1 degree increments. So it's at 100, but the temp sensor might only be registering 99.something which shows on the lcd as 99. If didn't get the hh alarm at any point, I can imagine that being annoying.

Once I do an actual wort boil, hopefully tomorrow, I let you know how it compares.


----------



## carniebrew

stuartf said:


> Snap reedy, did the exact same thing today when trying to stir in my grain, managed to fish the pipe out with my paddle and reinstall. Glad it isn't just me and I had just read your post before I did it. My current issue is that the temp seems stuck on 99, occasionally getting to 100 (hh) which is very annoying as the alarm keeps beeping when it flicks over to 100. Has this happened to anyone before? Last brew was fine (well apart from 40% efficiency but I've tracked that back to be down to poor crush from hbs). Don't really think its an issue brew wise that it is sitting between 99 & 100 just annoying when the alarm keeps going off.


I reckon you should report that temp issue to the Grainfather guys, see what they say. It sounds like a fault to me.


----------



## stuartf

I measured with a separate digital thermometer that has always measured the same as the gf reading and it was reading 99C too so thinking it may be a fault. I'll report to ibrew and see what they come back with, other than that and knocking off the overflow pipe it was a pretty good brew day


----------



## Killer Brew

carniebrew said:


> I reckon you should report that temp issue to the Grainfather guys, see what they say. It sounds like a fault to me.


Agree. If it doesn't get past 99 on your proper brew run i would be reporting it.


----------



## azampech

Where abouts do you live? Water boils at 100degC at sea level. As your altitude increases, the tempreture decreases.


----------



## paulyman

Okay brew one on the boil. Had great difficulty getting my Keg King 3 roller mill setup for the grainfather, I cannot get the gap wider than 1.2mm and for some reason it decided to tear the grain to shreds and was mostly flour. So stuck mash and stuck sparge which took regular stirring to free up. Efficiency was at the 75% I'd set beer smith at though. Once at the boil had a near boil over with the lid on, then had the 99/HH beeping that Stuart spoke about before it settled down at a constant 99 on the controller. It is rolling and as I said nearly boiled over with the lid on. Won't be anything to do with sea level, as I'm at sea level.


----------



## paulyman

Nope I was wrong. It is constantly going on and off now! WTF!

Edit- I'm an idiot! I hadn't pushed the temp probe far enough into the thermowell. There was even an iMake video I watched that went through that. I repeat, I'm an idiot.


----------



## stuartf

Hey paulyman did that fix the issue with the temp not getting to 100? Totally possible I've knocked mine during cleaning or something. Tested again today with just water and wouldn't get over 99 again. Definitely a good rolling boil going off in the kettle. Ps rtfm they say not to boil with the lid on .


----------



## paulyman

It did, had no issues with the controller after that. The temp probe looked like it was seated properly but it pushed in another 1cm or so.

Only had the lid on getting up to boil to speed things up, removed as soon as it got to the boil... Well after it got to the boil, I was a bit slow hence near boil over.


----------



## stuartf

Managed to burn my finger with the steam coming out of the lid today trying the exact same thing. I'll have a look at the temp probe tomorrow and see if its the same issue for me.


----------



## BrotherOz

Hi,

Procured a Grainfather not so long ago; first brew went smooth and the Blond was a success, specially with the wife .

Now, in yesterday's IPA attempt, the worth did not soak into the mash, most worth went down the overflow pipe, in addition, the GF heat protection started at 43 dgr C and turned off heating recurrently. Had to use the reset button over and over again, I got it to rise, but took some effort. Finally got it up to 68dgr for some time and could then go into sparging. The gravity before boild had a BeerSmith estimate on 1,056, I had 1,032, confirming the mash problem. Made some adjustments with sugar and maltodextrine (yes, quite uncertain results...). At boil-time I experienced no heat protection problems.
After putting to fermento​r, I saw that the GF heater at the bottom had a a seriously burned layer. Got it cleaned and seem alright. works alright as well.

Now, any idea from you guys what happend?
Why did the worth not run through the mash? Why did the heat protector go off all the time?
How to avoid in the future?

Don't really remember, but it could be so that I added grain after heating the water the first time. That is how I have made it before the GF.


----------



## meathead

Now, any idea from you guys what happend?
Why did the worth not run through the mash? Why did the heat protector go off all the time?
How to avoid in the future?

Don't really remember, but it could be so that I added grain after heating the water the first time. That is how I have made it before the GF.[/quote]

Welcome to AHB
How big was the grain bill, how fine was your crush, how much water did u mash in with and what was the mash consistency like?


----------



## bradsbrew

Thank **** for this thread. The gf facebook page would have to be one of the worst brewing advice out there.


----------



## HBHB

BrotherOz said:


> Hi,
> 
> Procured a Grainfather not so long ago; first brew went smooth and the Blond was a success, specially with the wife .
> 
> Now, in yesterday's IPA attempt, the worth did not soak into the mash, most worth went down the overflow pipe, in addition, the GF heat protection started at 43 dgr C and turned off heating recurrently. Had to use the reset button over and over again, I got it to rise, but took some effort. Finally got it up to 68dgr for some time and could then go into sparging. The gravity before boild had a BeerSmith estimate on 1,056, I had 1,032, confirming the mash problem. Made some adjustments with sugar and maltodextrine (yes, quite uncertain results...). At boil-time I experienced no heat protection problems.
> After putting to fermento​r, I saw that the GF heater at the bottom had a a seriously burned layer. Got it cleaned and seem alright. works alright as well.
> 
> Now, any idea from you guys what happend?
> Why did the worth not run through the mash? Why did the heat protector go off all the time?
> How to avoid in the future?
> 
> Don't really remember, but it could be so that I added grain after heating the water the first time. That is how I have made it before the GF.


Triggering the heat overload protection is caused by build up of proteins and debris on the cover plate for the element. At the end of the mash, it's worth while to use the grainfather mash paddle to give a very light scrape before trying to bring it to the boil. It's mainly caused by really fine milling (finer than is really required). If the residue stays on the plate, it burns in as you've found. If I'm doing beers with high wheat or high rye content, then I tend to lift the basket 15 minutes or so after mash in and give the bottom a scrape to be sure it doesn't cause problems.


----------



## BrotherOz

Scraping could a good idea for the future.
Then, why the worth went to overflow. I used 6,6kg grain and 20,5l water during mash. When thinking, it actually was thicker than I am used to. And - I used the gf recommendd water formula instead of the 21,5l as was in the recepie's in Beersmith. I will check the considtency in the future.

Thanks guys for the sparring!

Let's see how the 'failure' turns out in the end.


----------



## carniebrew

You might find it'll have a slight acrid/burnt flavour to it given what happened on the element cover. It definitely sounds like your milling might have been way too fine, it would explain the burned-on layer and the issue with it not re-circulating properly.


----------



## stuartf

I had a reply from one of the GF technical advisors regarding the failure to maintain 100C during the boil so thought I'd share:

"It is worth noting that the temperature controller is bypassed when you switch to boil. The temp controller isn’t accurate over about 80 as we selected one to be accurate at the important stages ,like during mashing etc.Once you reach a nice rolling boil-you know it’s boiling- better to go by this than the temp."

So can't be a dodgy temp controller causing this as it isn't controlling the temperature during the boil, I checked the positioning of the temp probe and it seemed to be in correctly.

Certainly in my brew I had a good rolling boil going on and I'm not too worried about the display not reading 100 (HH), as Paulyman said it only displays whole unit temp changes anyway so I dont expect it to be that accurate. One thing I would like is to be able to disable the beep that happens when it does hit 100 as it was going off every few seconds at some stages which gets pretty annoying on a 60 minute boil. Does anyone know if thats possible?


----------



## acarey

"One thing I would like is to be able to disable the beep that happens when it does hit 100 as it was going off every few seconds at some stages which gets pretty annoying on a 60 minute boil. Does anyone know if thats possible?"

thats weird, mine only goes off the once, not heaps of times during the boil.

I find it useful because when it beeps, I know i have about 30 seconds too rush in and prevent the boil over.

edit: stuffed up the quote bit because I'm a retard  no good at forums


----------



## bradsbrew

You can turn the controller off once it beeps as it is bypassed, if it boiling, its boiling. You can then turn it back on once you start chilling, if you wish.


----------



## HBHB

BrotherOz said:


> Scraping could a good idea for the future.
> Then, why the worth went to overflow. I used 6,6kg grain and 20,5l water during mash. When thinking, it actually was thicker than I am used to. And - I used the gf recommendd water formula instead of the 21,5l as was in the recepie's in Beersmith. I will check the considtency in the future.
> 
> Thanks guys for the sparring!
> 
> Let's see how the 'failure' turns out in the end.


You'll find most of it has gone through the mash through several volumes of wort being pumped up to the top. What you see going through the overflow pipe is just that - overflow. The rest is going through the grain bed, unless it's a stuck mash from over milling. That will decrease your overall efficiency significantly if that happens. Stick with the GF calculators water and you'll be a lot closer to the expected volumes in the vast majority of cases.


----------



## Coodgee

stuartf said:


> . One thing I would like is to be able to disable the beep that happens when it does hit 100 as it was going off every few seconds at some stages which gets pretty annoying on a 60 minute boil. Does anyone know if thats possible?


are you saying you stop the beeping by pressing down the power button, and then it starts beeping again? This can happen if it goes off the boil because you add some cool ingredients or something but once it's boiling it should stay boiling. If you fix the problems with the heating cutting out due to overheating then it should solve this problem.


----------



## SmuggledBudgie

Hey all,

I'm on my third brew with the GF and am absolutely blown away by the results. I've read through all 48 pages of this thread (keen I know, but I'm on holiday and can't brew) and gained some really useful advice, thanks for that.

My last brew was a Cream Ale with a 90 minute mash and I was surprised at how clear the wort came out, keen to taste the end result.

I'm wondering if anyone has had any issues with the black silicone joiner running from the filter to the pump inlet. It appears that after having taken it out to clean it, the sharp edge of the filter is tearing the silicone. I haven't noticed anyone report this problem in the past, just wondering if its something I'm doing wrong?? Do others actually take the little pipe out to clean it, or are you leaving it in place?

Cheers guys and thanks again.


----------



## carniebrew

SmuggledBudgie said:


> I'm wondering if anyone has had any issues with the black silicone joiner running from the filter to the pump inlet. It appears that after having taken it out to clean it, the sharp edge of the filter is tearing the silicone. I haven't noticed anyone report this problem in the past, just wondering if its something I'm doing wrong?? Do others actually take the little pipe out to clean it, or are you leaving it in place?


The only time I've ever taken anything apart around the filter was when I installed the upgrade kit. I just follow the Grainfather cleaning instructions when cleaning, i.e. just re-circing hot cleaning solution (PBW in my case) and then hot water throughout the system.

I do remember both when I first built the GF, and then upgraded it, those filter connections were a right pain in the arse getting them to fit correctly.


----------



## SmuggledBudgie

I think I've got the 2nd gen version which by looking at the diagrams, the pump filter attachment is different to 1st gen. The little silicone pipe slides on and off the pump inlet quite easily so you can remove the filler for cleaning (as per instructions). But the other end of it which squeezes into the filter is the end that is giving me a bit of grief. I guess to preserve it, I'll leave it alone and just use a bottle brush to get rid of any trub caught in and around it.


----------



## stuartf

I remove the filter when cleaning but I have a v5 GF so not sure what the earlier ones look like. Mine is a black rubber tube that connects to the filter to make a t-shape. I will post a photo tomorrow if I remember, so far no issues with tearing or splitting of the tube but only had it since end of December


----------



## SmuggledBudgie

Oh gosh, I didn't realise there was that many version. How do you know which version you have? I purchased in December also and I have the same filter that you are describing. I can post a pic also in a few weeks when I get back home. But it looks like it maybe an isolated issue caused most likely by my error.


----------



## Chridech

I dissasembe the filter with every clean. (GF purchased December, so probably latest version). Probably overkill, but I have found hop matter inside after the rinse cycle. Haven't had any problems with damage to the silicone joiner but I can see it could be damaged with repeated assembly. It might be enough to take the end cap off and just rinse the filter out under water without removing the silicone joiner. If yours is damaged suggest contacting Imake; they seem pretty good with their customer service and I'm sure they would send you another one (or two).


----------



## carniebrew

carniebrew said:


> The only time I've ever taken anything apart around the filter was when I installed the upgrade kit. I just follow the Grainfather cleaning instructions when cleaning, i.e. just re-circing hot cleaning solution (PBW in my case) and then hot water throughout the system.
> 
> I do remember both when I first built the GF, and then upgraded it, those filter connections were a right pain in the arse getting them to fit correctly.


My apologies, I thought you were talking about the silicon connectors on the outside of the GF, connecting to the pump. I realise now you are referring to the inside filter. No issues with that boot for me, and I definitely remove and clean that after every brew.


----------



## wambesi

Just a quick one fellas, above someone said they have a version 5 Grainfather - there is really only "two" releases so far, the original and the one with the upgraded pipework/pump seals/filter.


----------



## stuartf

Sorry my bad, just going by what the guy in the hbs told me.
In reference to the filter I take off the whole thing then remove the end cap and wash out but don't remove the rubber boot that connects it to the outlet.


----------



## butisitart

back to brother oz at top,
personal history (and recent procurement of minimash mill) suggests to me that....
simple problem is that your grain is milled way too fine. simple.
this got spelled out to me after a run of brews with burnt crap all over the base of the boiler, and difficult mashes. then i threw some spelt malt in - a much smaller grain and so not so pulverised by the shop mill. clean as a whistle. the large vienna malt grain was the worst culprit. that observation was when the theoretical penny dropped.
only had one run on the mill (perle malt), with a coarser crush, and it was a completely different beast. clean as a whistle, with the fastest sparge. still fermenting but it looks like i'll run at around 4.2 abv off 5kgs at 23L. could have been crushed a little finer, but it's killed any problems with the gf. (sparge was around 30 secs on 13L, and that was slowing the sparge a little.)
can't blame the shops - they probably mill to biab, so a finer mill isn't going to affect the bags so much, but they do affect how the gf runs. so if you can't get your supplier to mill a bit coarser, might be time to look at a mill.


----------



## Wee Jimmy

Afternoon Gents,
A question for those of you who keep track of Mash efficiency and brew house efficiency while using the grainfather. I have made 7 batches now first three were Grainkids (good value BTW). The last have been either adaptions from Modern homebrew recipies or recipies from Brewmans database. While im happy with the results im getting, just wondering what others have been achieving as im either missunderstanding posts or terminoligy. With some people claiming 90% brewhouse eff. I have created my own spreadsheet to keep track of my brews and assuming my calculations are correct have been averaging 80% Mash eff and 70% brewhouse. Thanks for your help. Jimmy


----------



## paulyman

I've only done three brews on it so far and the first had issues due to my crush, still managed 75% brew house efficiency. The next 2 since adjusting my crush were the same recipe and it ran at an identical 85% mash efficiency and 80% brew house. I mean identical, to the resolution of my volume measurements, timings and refractometer. 

I'm not too concerned about changes of a few percent here or there for different grists, which I know is going to happen, I can adjust during the boil if needed. What the last two brews have given me though, is a confidence that once I've done a recipe once I can probably reproduce it each and every time.


----------



## welly2

I'm making my biggest beer so far this weekend (a 7% IPA). Using just shy of 7kg of grain. Anything I should worry about, need to do or adjust or will it be alright?


----------



## carniebrew

welly2 said:


> I'm making my biggest beer so far this weekend (a 7% IPA). Using just shy of 7kg of grain. Anything I should worry about, need to do or adjust or will it be alright?


You can expect lower efficiency, 10% or so. Adjust your recipe accordingly


----------



## stuartf

Does anyone else have problems with the hose attachment for the wort chiller leaking? Seems like the cold water inlet doesn't quite seal with my hose so I end up putting a bin under it to catch the leakage (it fills a standard bin pretty quickly so we're not talking a slight dribble here). Not a major drama but I'd prefer it if it didn't leak. Totally willing to think the issue could be the fitting on my hose but wanted to check if anyone else has had this issue first before I go and buy new hose bits.


----------



## Chridech

stuartf said:


> Does anyone else have problems with the hose attachment for the wort chiller leaking? Seems like the cold water inlet doesn't quite seal with my hose so I end up putting a bin under it to catch the leakage (it fills a standard bin pretty quickly so we're not talking a slight dribble here). Not a major drama but I'd prefer it if it didn't leak. Totally willing to think the issue could be the fitting on my hose but wanted to check if anyone else has had this issue first before I go and buy new hose bits.


There was a black rubber washer and a white rubber washer in the kit that needs to be inserted into the cold water-in hose tap fitting so that it will seal properly. Mine leaked pretty badly until I found the extra washer. Probably worth checking that you have inserted them or that they haven't fallen out. I still do get a slight leak but this is from the garden hose fitting.


----------



## stuartf

Ok thanks I'll go check if they are on or not (probably not I'm thinking)
Cheer


----------



## botch

Has anyone done any 10L or smaller sized batches?

I was planning on doing a few smaller experimental batches and saw this:

http://www.grainfather.com.au/#!online-store/c8k/!/10L-Micro-Pipework/p/62406469/category=11595343

Would those who have done smaller batches think it would be worth getting the smaller pipe work? Or is it fine without?

Cheers


----------



## postmaster

Great for small batches
The plate will sit on the grainbed and its suppose to.

I had one made and had to buy the tube with the hooks on it and that cost $35 so its a very good price.

Also you can use the correct volume of mash and sparge water as per the GF calculator.


----------



## butisitart

Chridech said:


> There was a black rubber washer and a white rubber washer in the kit that needs to be inserted into the cold water-in hose tap fitting so that it will seal properly. Mine leaked pretty badly until I found the extra washer. Probably worth checking that you have inserted them or that they haven't fallen out. I still do get a slight leak but this is from the garden hose fitting.


oh... i must have missed that in my detailed instruction manual 

do i get a leak on every other brew from my tap water hose?? tick yes.
do i have a bunch of supplied seals and plastic bits with no apparent reason for being there?? tick yes.
gosh - how bleedin' obvious 
out with the screwdriver and steady hands tomorrow morning. cheers chridech


----------



## DrGero

Hi, anyone using the Brewferm mill? If so, at what setting? And how long does sparge take with that setting?

Cheers


----------



## DrGero

As far as I understand the cooling / transfer to FV procedure, we are left with 3.5 liter / 0.92 US gallons in the GF. Are you tipping the GF to get more wort out, or are you happy with "loosing" that amount of wort?

My cooling / transfer procedure:
1) Recirculate wort for 5 min. to sanitize the cooler.
2) Turn on cold water and recirculate for about 10 min. to get to 165 fahrenheit.
3) Start transfer to FV and adjust flow to maintain pitching temp. in FV
4) Stop transfer when the pump starts to "complain", I am now left with about 3.5 liter / 0.92 US gallons of wort.

Cheers


----------



## meathead

DrGero said:


> As far as I understand the cooling / transfer to FV procedure, we are left with 3.5 liter / 0.92 US gallons in the GF. Are you tipping the GF to get more wort out, or are you happy with "loosing" that amount of wort?
> 
> My cooling / transfer procedure:
> 1) Recirculate wort for 5 min. to sanitize the cooler.
> 2) Turn on cold water and recirculate for about 10 min. to get to 165 fahrenheit.
> 3) Start transfer to FV and adjust flow to maintain pitching temp. in FV
> 4) Stop transfer when the pump starts to "complain", I am now left with about 3.5 liter / 0.92 US gallons of wort.
> 
> Cheers


I tip mine within reason. Always a bit scary, need an extra pair of hands.


----------



## Chridech

meathead said:


> I tip mine within reason. Always a bit scary, need an extra pair of hands.


Yep, tip a little without too many dramas gets you another litre or so. Pretty hard to do though for a hoppy brew If you haven't used a hop sock or spider. if you have free hop pellets in the boil the filter tends to clag with about 3.5L to go. Don't get much extra by tipping.


----------



## butisitart

i now tip the easy part through a sieve into the fermenter, then the rest into a sanitised goony (through a sieve) then throw that in a cold bath in the sink. by the time i sort out the fermenter and get the yeast ready to go, it's cooled down enough and trub has settled enough to tip most of the goony into the fermenter. (10mins, more or less). the last little bit i either ditch, or if there's still a reasonable amount, chill it, decant again, and i've got some malt to go towards the next yeast starter. bugger all gets wasted in the end.


----------



## meathead

Goony? Wine cask bladder?


----------



## Chridech

butisitart said:


> i now tip the easy part through a sieve into the fermenter, then the rest into a sanitised goony (through a sieve) then throw that in a cold bath in the sink. by the time i sort out the fermenter and get the yeast ready to go, it's cooled down enough and trub has settled enough to tip most of the goony into the fermenter. (10mins, more or less). the last little bit i either ditch, or if there's still a reasonable amount, chill it, decant again, and i've got some malt to go towards the next yeast starter. bugger all gets wasted in the end.


Crikey! No beer wasted in the butisitart household. Well done.


----------



## Bribie G

With der GrüngeFührer approaching its second anniversary in Australia, what are the impressions of users, so far, regarding robustness and long term reliability of the unit?

With my beloved Crown Urn now approaching six years old it's time to consider a "succession plan" and thinking of stabling it with a young whipper-snapper unit as a transition to its eventual retirement.


----------



## Futur

Bribie G said:


> With der GrüngeFührer approaching its second anniversary in Australia, what are the impressions of users, so far, regarding robustness and long term reliability of the unit?
> 
> With my beloved Crown Urn now approaching six years old it's time to consider a "succession plan" and thinking of stabling it with a young whipper-snapper unit as a transition to its eventual retirement.


You won't be retiring the crown if you buy a GF, you'll be using her as a sparge water heater


----------



## Bribie G

Aha, time to read the full thread methinks :lol:


----------



## tugger

My pump died today. 
It's fooked. Mid brew. 
Lucky I was planning on immersion chilling and have a spare auto siphon. 
I'm going to order a new one on Tuesday when the lhbs opens.


----------



## Bribie G

So is the pump covered by a warranty?


----------



## TidalPete

Bribie G said:


> Bribie G, on 12 Mar 2016 - 4:10 PM, said:
> 
> 
> With my beloved Crown Urn now approaching six years old it's time to consider a "succession plan" and thinking of stabling it with a young whipper-snapper unit as a transition to its eventual retirement.


You only live once Bribie so please consider tossing in a few dollars for a

:icon_offtopic: :icon_offtopic: Braumeister.

Ever Poms reach their use-by-date sooner or later so go for it old son!

If my HERMS exploded or the house was destroyed by fire that's how I would go. No disrespect to the Grainfather intended really & truly. :beer:

Hope this helps? :wub:


----------



## Bribie G

Thank's Pete, I've actually used a BM, or at least participated in a BM brew when we had the systems war on in 2011.. shit was it that long ago... and we all minded each others systems when we had to go for a brew or a slash, and I minded the BM for Pocket Beers while he was called away for his celebrity photo shoot for the conference. We did the post boil rest then the drain.

TBH I didn't find it worth ten times a Crown Urn, impressive though it was, but I can see the advantages of a GF from the point of view of not having to do lagging and much probing with my stick thermometer, plus the malt pipe (I've had a couple of stabs at doing my own malt pipe, you may remember) and the GF seems to be a fairly good system that's more sensibly priced for what it is. More like an automatic version of a Ford Focus rather than a BMW but gets the wort done just the same.


----------



## TidalPete

And still :icon_offtopic:

No worries Bribie!

Each to his own I guess?

Don't suppose you'd be keen on setting up an el-cheapo HERMS when the time comes?
Only too happy to help out there. Too easy! :beer:


----------



## tugger

Bribie G said:


> So is the pump covered by a warranty?


i will ask but don't really expect it too.


----------



## Bribie G

tugger said:


> i will ask but don't really expect it too.


It it's less than 2 years old I'd certainly expect it - most consumer electrics like fridges, etc are routinely covered.

Another advantage of the GF is that you can get a certain attachment that we don't talk about on this main forum.


----------



## Killer Brew

12 month warranty but as has been mentioned many times in this thread the GF guys stand behind their product. Worth asking the question.


----------



## butisitart

47 brews down, i could only see me replacing my gf with 2 things -
a braumeister. ain't gonna happen according to the director of domestic finances, and i should remain thankful that i got a gf.
or a bling thing that i design myself, spend $11230 on and take 9 years to assemble.
if i were going to spend the same money on a system again, would i buy a gf? yep. simple.
ain't perfect heaven, but i found that hooked into a minimash mill and beersmith, it's in pretty good company.
(no affiliations).
cons if you're interested - it's a bit fiddly at the end of boil - you have to decide what to do with the 2L or so of tun leftover (see above), then take immersion chiller lines off to sort that out, then rinse gf, then re-connect immersion chiller lines for a rinse, then disonnect so you can properly clean gf, then re-connect so you can clean immersion chiller (unless somebody has a quicker way of doing this). apart from the end clean which happens to come at about the same time as you need a rest and a refreshing cup of tea, the rest is utterly control freak enjoyable.


----------



## butisitart

meathead said:


> Goony? Wine cask bladder?


goony - 2L glass bottle prehistoric cask bladder. popular in the 1970s with university students. abherraion of flagon to flagoon, goony.
ah - the good old days, when you could shout the household a goony for $1.99 then letch on to the girl with the vaguest responses.


----------



## paulyman

tugger said:


> i will ask but don't really expect it too.


I would damn well expect it to be covered and would push it under our consumer law if I had to. I'd expect something like this to last much more than 2 years under reasonable wear and tear. But I get the feeling you won't have to push it, these guys seem to genuinely love their product.


----------



## Coldspace

About 50 brews into mine and loving it. Spectacular beers and consistent as well with receipes. I mainly run double batches through mine with 8.5 to 9 kgs of grain.

Plus no chill into cubes. Couldn't be better.


----------



## butisitart

paulyman said:


> I would damn well expect it to be covered and would push it under our consumer law if I had to. I'd expect something like this to last much more than 2 years under reasonable wear and tear. But I get the feeling you won't have to push it, these guys seem to genuinely love their product.


yep - consumer act 2009 states that a product must be replaced if it fails to operate within a reasonable expected life time of that product (paraphrasing here).
so equally, if you ever consider getting an 'extended warranty' on something, think again, you're covered anyway.
i've had one expensive product (60inch plasma tele) had the guts replaced out of it at 3 1/2 years, no extended warranty, under that act, without question, because a tv should last 6-7 years minimum.
if you have any problems getting it replaced, please report back. there'll be a backlash.


----------



## wambesi

Of course the pump is covered guys, we back all our products and I've had no complaints with not being looked after - at least since I started with them. 

Any problems are dealt with as soon as we can. Your first port of call should be with where you purchased it and they should be able to look after you.


----------



## tugger

Either way it's not a problem. I will just use the other one until it's fixed.


----------



## nfragol

DrGero said:


> Hi, anyone using the Brewferm mill? If so, at what setting? And how long does sparge take with that setting?
> 
> Cheers


Hi there, sorry for the late reply.
I am using a Brewferm mill. I have the setting at 1mm, sparge doesn't take more than 20 or so minutes and been having good efficiency.


----------



## stuartf

Does anyone have experience with grain bills at the higher end of the GF's capacity? Got an RIS in the planning stage but wanted to know what issues I may hit trying to mash a 8-9kg grain bill? To date my largest has been 6kg, I'm guessing slower sparge is the main thing?


----------



## Coodgee

I think poor efficiency is also an issue with grain bills that large because you have such little water left to sparge with. Never tried it myself but there are comments in this thread about it. I would sparge till you had it full to the 30l mark


----------



## MastersBrewery

Coodgee said:


> I think poor efficiency is also an issue with grain bills that large because you have such little water left to sparge with. Never tried it myself but there are comments in this thread about it. I would sparge till you had it full to the 30l mark


As with any process there is a sweet spot for efficiency.
You can do 0 to 200kmph in 12 seconds but use lots of fuel and cover little distance or you could cover 20 times that distance for the same fuel... just slower. Extreams will never give great results even on pro gear.

MB


----------



## stuartf

Good point, I hadn't thought of that one. One option I had thought of was splitting the bill in half, mashing the first half in water as usual then mashing the 2nd in the wort from the 1st? I think this is an old technique that was used to make very strong beers.


----------



## carniebrew

stuartf said:


> Does anyone have experience with grain bills at the higher end of the GF's capacity? Got an RIS in the planning stage but wanted to know what issues I may hit trying to mash a 8-9kg grain bill? To date my largest has been 6kg, I'm guessing slower sparge is the main thing?


Expect efficiency in the 50's kind of range, and adjust your recipe accordingly, or you end up topping up with a heap of DME/Dextrose post-mash. You can always just make a smaller batch size...i.e. you can make a RIS with 6kg of grain, you just end up with less RIS.


----------



## bradsbrew

I made 20L of 11% RIS on my grainfather with around 9.5kg grain. Cant remember the exact figures, but I did use my SS fermenter with an overside element as a secondary container to boil down the extra wort collected from extra sparging, when it got down to around 30L total in both vessels, I transferred all the wort to the grainfather. From memory, I think it was around a 4 hour boil.


----------



## Coodgee

That sounds like the way to do it!


----------



## Coldspace

I double batch in gf for every brew with 9 kg of grain and still manage to get 2 fermenters at around 1046 gravity. I posted what i do here somewhere earlier.


----------



## wambesi

There was an interesting episode of Brewstrong where John Blichmann had mashed in, then mashed in the same liquid again and got some good results... At least I think it was about that, but it was a brew day while listening and I had been drinking...


----------



## stuartf

Hi wambesi yeah that's pretty much what I'm thinking of doing. Think its called a double mash or something. Trying to decide if the base malt should be in the first mash and dark/specialty grains in second or visa versa or just equal amounts in both. Further reading over a few beers is required


----------



## ken_gilchrist

Hey guys, just finished my third GF brew today. The only thing I have found is that the silicon filter bit that slides over the pump pick up and goes into the filter has already nearly cut through. I have checked the GF web site and they seem to only sell the whole assembly which buggered if I want to be buying all the time. Does anyone know were I can get just the silicon part?

I was thinking about making a slight mod and rigging up a bazooka. If there is no simple solution it may be the way I go.


----------



## paulyman

Give wherever you bought it off a call and it should be easy enough for them to organise a replacement under warranty.


----------



## DrGero

nfragol said:


> Hi there, sorry for the late reply.
> I am using a Brewferm mill. I have the setting at 1mm, sparge doesn't take more than 20 or so minutes and been having good efficiency.


Thanks, I will try that next time. First time I used .7 mill. (and had a stuck mash/sparge). Second time I used 1.2 mill. with low efficiency as a result.


----------



## banora brewer

Hi guys, looking at getting back to all grain brewing, not sure to purchase a grainfather or the braumeister.


----------



## butisitart

depends on your department of finance. mine told me i was lucky to get a gf, and it's a bloody good piece of kit.
i'd be surprised if anybody has owned both to give a realistic comparison.
if my current departmentment of finance throws me out and i find a more compassionate department of finance, i'd go the 50L braumeister or stay where i am.
equally, if gf upgrades to 50L, that would be pretty interesting.


----------



## banora brewer

I have owned a 20 ltr braumeister before but had to sell it, I'm saving for it, my wife, finance department, said that I could have anyone, just got to save the cash


----------



## MastersBrewery

A side by side BM, GF comparo was done by one of the members can't remember who or where. He did say wort carrity was better on the GF. Obviously the automation of steps and timers on the BM are a bonus, however Matho's controler can do this for around $250(PM Lael if you do choose this path). I agree with Butisitart on the 50L, if GF release a 50L model, BM may need to look at their premium price point.


----------



## paulyman

GF have the Grainbrother which is just the GF boiler, no chiller or basket for $600 I think it is. That seems to be how they are pushing increased batch size. Saves on engineering a new unit and setting up another production line.


----------



## HBHB

There's a few pairs of twins around these days. Works well. Just need to be sure they're running on different 10amp circuits.

Works a treat for double batches overlapped back to back

Martin


----------



## banora brewer

I think I might be leaning towards the grainfather


----------



## tugger

It turns out my pump wasn't broken. 
I stripped it and reinstalled and it works now. 
It wasn't blocked or dirty. 
I will monitor it over the next few brews.


----------



## tugger

HBHB said:


> twins.jpg
> 
> There's a few pairs of twins around these days. Works well. Just need to be sure they're running on different 10amp circuits.
> 
> Works a treat for double batches overlapped back to back
> 
> Martin


My twins.


----------



## Coodgee

I have an urn that I have used to boil wort for a consecutive batch brew day. I just need a little pump to pump the wort through the CFC out of the urn because it was a pain in the arse to have to chill one brew and and then dump the first brew back into the grainfather and chill that one. Took forever.


----------



## Chridech

http://grainfatherweeklymash.blogspot.com.au/2016/03/week-62-large-grain-bill-brewing-what.html

Latest Weekly Mash report from Imake/Grainfather. Brewing with grain bills > 6kg. Nothing much specific for the Grainfather. More about recipe formulation for big beers. Mentions lower Efficiency with larger grain bills but not quantitative. Guess you need to brew a couple to get a feel for it.


----------



## Ratu

I just completed my first all grain recipe in my new Grainfather. It's only my fourth all grain brew overall. Love this piece of kit and it was a fun day.

It was a 23 litre batch and I used the Grandfather app. It called for a 17 litre mash and a 12 litre sparge. This left me three litres short of the expected 28 litre boil volume (which I added before the boil anyway). The post boil volume was spot on to give me 23 litres into the fermenter.

After the fact I checked the sparge calculation using the formula in the Grainfather instruction booklet. This gave me a figure of 15 litres. My "missing" three litres?

Has anyone come across this disparity before? 

Using Grainfather's efficiency calculations I came in at 79% so I'm very happy with the result in any case.


----------



## N3MIS15

I use the calculators on their site (http://www.grainfather.com.au/#!brewing-calculator/cljs).
The app and the calculators page do differ slightly but not by enough to count. (the page seems more accurate).

The calculators on their site have given pretty good results in my experience..
EDIT: also worth checking your app is up to date. The latest version (on android at least) "Reviewed sparge water calculation"


----------



## Ratu

Thanks Kit Master. I'll check the web site and the currency of the app.

Ray


----------



## Ratu

Yep, app needed updating. Calculations are now pretty much aligned to to web site.


----------



## jayjt29

Hi guys,

Having read all the pages on this thread, i decided to take the plunge with the GrainFather. Im so glad i did, best bit of kit ive purchased to date!

Ive written a review on my first brew on a blog, it can be found on my site www.doghousehomebrew.com

Cheers

Jay


----------



## welly2

jayjt29 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Having read all the pages on this thread, i decided to take the plunge with the GrainFather. Im so glad i did, best bit of kit ive purchased to date!
> 
> Ive written a review on my first brew on a blog, it can be found on my site www.doghousehomebrew.com
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Jay


Welcome and your pub looks amazing! What a thing to have at the bottom of the garden! I'm from just up the road from you in Harrogate, but living in Australia now.


----------



## butisitart

jayjt29 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Having read all the pages on this thread, i decided to take the plunge with the GrainFather. Im so glad i did, best bit of kit ive purchased to date!
> 
> Ive written a review on my first brew on a blog, it can be found on my site www.doghousehomebrew.com
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Jay


don't tell me they're even selling these to the poms. 
can you make hot piss in a gf?? 

seriously, welcome to the fray, jay.
you'll need to keep us up with any good brit recipes - we can get most of the stuff here, so enjoy :beer:


----------



## Kingy

Nice doghouse I've got plans for something along those lines off the back of my house. I'm slowly workin on the misses. She wants a deck I want a drinking establishment.


----------



## fletcher

sorry if this has been written before but just wanna check on something with the GF and mash pH.

how long should i take to take a reading once i've added minerals to mash water? i've read 5 mins so i've mashed in and have taken a reading from the wort above the top grating.

i did that and ph was still quite high, so have added phosphoric acid to bring it down to 5.4 with ATC pH reader using sydney water. i seem to have added a lot more acid than bru'n water would suggest to bring it to 5.4. it stated about 1.4ml and i've added about 3ml. having said that, i don't know the strength of the acid so it might be 10% and not higher. 

is there a large discrepancy between the ph of the wort coming through the pump from the top than what is slowly perforating through the grain? i would assume no, but just want to make sure i haven't added way too much acid and the ph in the 'middle' of my GF is lower than what the wort above would suggest.

my first time with water chemistry and i know it's a stupid question so be easy on me >.<

thanks!


----------



## Killer Brew

jayjt29 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Having read all the pages on this thread, i decided to take the plunge with the GrainFather. Im so glad i did, best bit of kit ive purchased to date!
> 
> Ive written a review on my first brew on a blog, it can be found on my site www.doghousehomebrew.com
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Jay


Your doghouse is outstanding! I think my dog may need something like that.


----------



## jayjt29

Cheers All 

Well I done my second brew today on the GF, it was a small grain bill of 3.7kg, so called for 13.49l of mash water, anyway the pump seemed to suck in air whilst circulating the mash, this did not happen on my first brew. It created quite alot of foam. I stopped and started the pump several times and it seemed to suck air in (some how) when the liquid went over the overflow pipe, it was running fine till then but as soon as the liquid reached the overflow air was sucked in?!

I wasn't to bothered about this but god knows why it happened! Anyway the sparge went without hitch took around 10 minutes to add the 17.47 litres of water, boil went well and then started the pump to circulate the wort to create a filter with the hops etc. No air intake or bubbles! 

Anyone know why? Im not bothered as the sample from the trial jar tasted how i would have expected it to taste 

Cheers Jay


----------



## meathead

Not saying this answer is definitive but here goes. My guess is that the strike water isn't flowing thru the grain fast enough into the dead space and hence air going thru pump. Temps would be effected as well. 
What I do with a small grain bill is add more strike water say 3 litres and deduct from sparge


----------



## HBHB

3.7kg 16.5L mash water and 14.5L sparge would have been better suited. That allows for an extra 3L of mash water due to the small grain bill and would have made the grain a bit more buoyant, also allowing more water in the base around the pump inlet.


----------



## butisitart

i think you'll find that can happen on any grainbill size - i tend to get it on too finely milled grain, especially with wheat. my observation (and this may not be conclusive) is that in the moments that enough wort hits the overflow pipe to smother it, you'll hear a bubble sound from the unsmothered (wort plus air) further down the pipe and underneath it, when that air bubble finds space under the grain cannister. if it is happening on any grainbill, it is probable that your mill is too fine and you've got a sediment bed on the bottom of the grain cannister. or in other words, a slightly sticking mash.
i see you got your mash off the gf calculator - i think they need to do some refining there. try loading over about 9kg and the calculated mash water won't fit into the gf. perhaps, as per meathead and hbhb, the lower end also needs refining from the gf calculator, cos i can't really think how you could get a mash sticking in a gf on 3.7kg otherwise.


----------



## jayjt29

Cheers for the responses, interesting  Ill try adding extra mash water next time I do a small grain bill, but as butisitart says can happen on any size grain bill.

Jay


----------



## LAGERFRENZY

I am about to buy a Gen 1 Grainfather that has the upgrade kit. If I were to purchase a Grainbrother would I still need to purchase another upgrade kit for it (the GB) so that the two would be compatible? I saw a post to this effect last year and was hoping that the manufacturer has since seen the light and upgraded the Bro.


----------



## Killer Brew

jayjt29 said:


> Cheers for the responses, interesting  Ill try adding extra mash water next time I do a small grain bill, but as butisitart says can happen on any size grain bill.
> 
> Jay


Consider adding rice hulls (around $1.50 per kg from your LHBS) to small grain bills, particularly those with wheat. Will boost the bill size so the GF can be used as designed plus provides a filter bed to help prevent stuck sparges.


----------



## Coodgee

I was getting stuck sparges and the way i fixed it was to not stir the mash too much when mashing in


----------



## welly2

Coodgee said:


> I was getting stuck sparges and the way i fixed it was to not stir the mash too much when mashing in


What worked for me, after dealing with two really, REALLY slow sparges (45 minutes and 1 hour 15 minute) was giving the mash a reasonable stir after mashing/mashing out. Sparge finished in 20 minutes and ended up with 89% efficiency.


----------



## jayjt29

Killer Brew said:


> Consider adding rice hulls (around $1.50 per kg from your LHBS) to small grain bills, particularly those with wheat. Will boost the bill size so the GF can be used as designed plus provides a filter bed to help prevent stuck sparges.


Cheers Killer Brew, great idea only watched a Youtube video about this the other day!

Jay


----------



## GalBrew

Aside from crush issues, people found that the sparge went much faster if grain bed was not allowed to compact (by fully draining) before adding the sparge water. It's covered somewhere in this thread.


----------



## carniebrew

GalBrew said:


> Aside from crush issues, people found that the sparge went much faster if grain bed was not allowed to compact (by fully draining) before adding the sparge water. It's covered somewhere in this thread.


I am one of those, but my efficiency has suffered as a result. I was getting low 80's with a 45m sparge early on, where i'd let the malt pipe drain before starting the sparge. Now I start the sparge as soon as lifting the malt pipe, sparge takes under 10 mins, but getting more like low-mid 70's in total efficiency.


----------



## banora brewer

Just wondering how you guy's have got your grainfather set up, do you have a stand? I'm not sure how to set mine up, I would like to keep it off the floor. I would like to put my urn above it so I could sparge. Any ideas would be great.


----------



## carniebrew

banora brewer said:


> Just wondering how you guy's have got your grainfather set up, do you have a stand? I'm not sure how to set mine up, I would like to keep it off the floor. I would like to put my urn above it so I could sparge. Any ideas would be great.


I've just got mine sitting on 3 bricks on the ground in my garage to bring the height up a bit. And I figured it would make it easier if I had to use the reset switch at the bottom at any stage, haven't had to yet though.


----------



## Killer Brew

banora brewer said:


> Just wondering how you guy's have got your grainfather set up, do you have a stand? I'm not sure how to set mine up, I would like to keep it off the floor. I would like to put my urn above it so I could sparge. Any ideas would be great.


I have a crate i knocked together standing around 40cm high. Means the top of the GF is around bench height. Perfect!


----------



## banora brewer

I was planning on having my urn above the grainfather so I could sparge easier, would this work?


----------



## carniebrew

Yeah why not, gravity fed sparge, if you could hook up some kind of flow control you could adjust the flow rate so that you can set and forget


----------



## Chridech

banora brewer said:


> Just wondering how you guy's have got your grainfather set up, do you have a stand? I'm not sure how to set mine up, I would like to keep it off the floor. I would like to put my urn above it so I could sparge. Any ideas would be great.


I have mine on the ground next to a table with all the brewing paraphernalia and sparge water urn. Can't see any problem getting it off the ground with a crate/bricks/custom stand, but the higher you have it the more of a challenge it will be to lift the mash tun for sparging. The one time I did hit the reset button during the boil it required two operators; one to tilt the GF and another to stick a hand underneath. I can see 40cm of elevation has its advantages. Imake advise to have it on the ground, but I expect this is to dissuade first time users putting it on a bench, making the mash tun lift very challenging.

I think there are comments in this thread that advise about running a hose direct from the sparge urn to the GF by gravity feed. Should work fine but I have no problem filling a 5L jug three times from the urn to do the sparge.

In other threads eg. Herms?, there are pictures of brewery set-ups on mobile trolleys. Sparge heater up high and mash tun and boilers low. Mounted pumps to move wort between vessels. Something similar could be done for the GF, but one of the selling points for me was the compactness of the unit, such that I can pack it away between brews.


----------



## Killer Brew

It could if you built the crate to the right height relative to a bench. Might be easier to elevate the urn though? I built it because i was tired of bending down to operate the GF. Will get a pic up when i can but its nothing spectacular!


----------



## Killer Brew




----------



## Chridech

carniebrew said:


> I am one of those, but my efficiency has suffered as a result. I was getting low 80's with a 45m sparge early on, where i'd let the malt pipe drain before starting the sparge. Now I start the sparge as soon as lifting the malt pipe, sparge takes under 10 mins, but getting more like low-mid 70's in total efficiency.


There are so many factors to consider when it comes to mash efficiency. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter if you are hitting 70% or 85%, it's being consistent that counts. That way you can brew true your recipe, no surprises. 

Here's my 2 cents worth when it comes to the Grainfather and mash efficiency:

1. Getting the water chemistry right helps. The times I have achieved highest mash efficiency is when I have hit mash pH of 5.2 bang on. Calculate your salts and acid additions on one of the water spreadsheets, measure your mash pH after 5 minutes recirculating, and adjust pH accordingly. I tend to hold a little lactic acid back from the calculations, because it seems easier to lower rather than raise pH. FWIW I did one brew at mash pH 4.8 and it didn't seem to matter. Remember to acidify sparge water to pH 5.5.

2. Grain crush size - the yin/yang of mash efficiency and sparging time. Can't use BIAB grain crush sizes for the GF. Stuck or very slow sparge will result. Too coarse a crush will result in poor efficiency. Crush size is also mill dependent. The only way to make an accurate recommendation would be to quote grain crush size percentages using the calibrated sieve thingies. FWIW I've had good efficiency (87%) using a crush size of 1mm with a Mashmaster Minimill (new fluted rollers). Sparge time was about 15 minutes. 

3. Sparge technique. I've only ever started sparging within a minute or less of hoisting the mash tun. Haven't had a stuck sparge doing this, but I also haven't pushed the envelope with crush size.

I'd say find a range of techniques that give you an efficiency you are happy with and then refine in very small increments. For me, I'm now happy with my water chemistry and sparging, but will try dropping crush size eg. to 0.9mm, to see if this improves mash efficiency any more without creating too slow a sparge. Once I've found the right balance I plan to stick with it to achieve consistent brewing.


----------



## butisitart

only thing to watch for if elevating the gf is if you're tall enough to then haul the grain cannister out. i've always had mine on the floor, and everything functions fine . immersion chiller is high enough to feed into a fermenter, and its hoses are easy height to feed under the dish drainer and into the kitchen sink. bit of stooping about on the hotbreak, but not worth the effort of elevation. although carniebrew's thing about the reset button is handy. reset button is a design nuisance, as mentioned very early in this thread. all relative though - my missus is about 5' 2 in the old, and on the one time she decided to lift the cannister out, she seriously struggled on height. and if i was 2m tall, i'd probably get a bit nnngh about it being at floor level.
be interested if you report back on a .9mm crush, chridech. i'm currently on .9mm fluted, and was thinking to go to 1.0 just to see.


----------



## jayjt29

I just sit mine on the floor without issue.

Jay


----------



## Killer Brew

Chridech said:


> There are so many factors to consider when it comes to mash efficiency. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter if you are hitting 70% or 85%, it's being consistent that counts. That way you can brew true your recipe, no surprises.
> Here's my 2 cents worth when it comes to the Grainfather and mash efficiency:
> 1. Getting the water chemistry right helps. The times I have achieved highest mash efficiency is when I have hit mash pH of 5.2 bang on. Calculate your salts and acid additions on one of the water spreadsheets, measure your mash pH after 5 minutes recirculating, and adjust pH accordingly. I tend to hold a little lactic acid back from the calculations, because it seems easier to lower rather than raise pH. FWIW I did one brew at mash pH 4.8 and it didn't seem to matter. Remember to acidify sparge water to pH 5.5.
> 2. Grain crush size - the yin/yang of mash efficiency and sparging time. Can't use BIAB grain crush sizes for the GF. Stuck or very slow sparge will result. Too coarse a crush will result in poor efficiency. Crush size is also mill dependent. The only way to make an accurate recommendation would be to quote grain crush size percentages using the calibrated sieve thingies. FWIW I've had good efficiency (87%) using a crush size of 1mm with a Mashmaster Minimill (new fluted rollers). Sparge time was about 15 minutes.
> 3. Sparge technique. I've only ever started sparging within a minute or less of hoisting the mash tun. Haven't had a stuck sparge doing this, but I also haven't pushed the envelope with crush size.
> I'd say find a range of techniques that give you an efficiency you are happy with and then refine in very small increments. For me, I'm now happy with my water chemistry and sparging, but will try dropping crush size eg. to 0.9mm, to see if this improves mash efficiency any more without creating too slow a sparge. Once I've found the right balance I plan to stick with it to achieve consistent brewing.


Good info and you are bang on about consistency being the key. With your salts and acid additions do you add to the top of the basket while recirculating so that they wash straight into the mash or try to slip them down the side of the tube?


----------



## Jamescoolness

Chridech said:


> There are so many factors to consider when it comes to mash efficiency. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter if you are hitting 70% or 85%, it's being consistent that counts. That way you can brew true your recipe, no surprises.
> 
> Here's my 2 cents worth when it comes to the Grainfather and mash efficiency:
> 
> 1. Getting the water chemistry right helps. The times I have achieved highest mash efficiency is when I have hit mash pH of 5.2 bang on. Calculate your salts and acid additions on one of the water spreadsheets, measure your mash pH after 5 minutes recirculating, and adjust pH accordingly. I tend to hold a little lactic acid back from the calculations, because it seems easier to lower rather than raise pH. FWIW I did one brew at mash pH 4.8 and it didn't seem to matter. Remember to acidify sparge water to pH 5.5.
> 
> 2. Grain crush size - the yin/yang of mash efficiency and sparging time. Can't use BIAB grain crush sizes for the GF. Stuck or very slow sparge will result. Too coarse a crush will result in poor efficiency. Crush size is also mill dependent. The only way to make an accurate recommendation would be to quote grain crush size percentages using the calibrated sieve thingies. FWIW I've had good efficiency (87%) using a crush size of 1mm with a Mashmaster Minimill (new fluted rollers). Sparge time was about 15 minutes.
> 
> 3. Sparge technique. I've only ever started sparging within a minute or less of hoisting the mash tun. Haven't had a stuck sparge doing this, but I also haven't pushed the envelope with crush size.
> 
> I'd say find a range of techniques that give you an efficiency you are happy with and then refine in very small increments. For me, I'm now happy with my water chemistry and sparging, but will try dropping crush size eg. to 0.9mm, to see if this improves mash efficiency any more without creating too slow a sparge. Once I've found the right balance I plan to stick with it to achieve consistent brewing.


Chridech great tips. Can I ask how you obtained your local water chemistry? The brisbane water information online is incomplete and out of date. Is there another source?
James


----------



## Killer Brew

Jamescoolness said:


> Chridech great tips. Can I ask how you obtained your local water chemistry? The brisbane water information online is incomplete and out of date. Is there another source?
> James


I believe that if you formally request it from your local water board then they are obliged to provide it (public interest).


----------



## Chridech

butisitart said:


> be interested if you report back on a .9mm crush, chridech. i'm currently on .9mm fluted, and was thinking to go to 1.0 just to see.


A couple of the Braumeister guys have reported in the Mashmaster MiniMill thread (and I think I have seen you pop up on that thread) that they are getting good mash and sparge results with a mill-gap of 0.9mm. Figure the Grainfather process is pretty similar. I'm getting pretty good results with 1mm, but will try 0.9mm. The next step will be to find the ideal mill-gap size for unhusked grains (e.g., wheat).


----------



## Chridech

Jamescoolness said:


> Chridech great tips. Can I ask how you obtained your local water chemistry? The brisbane water information online is incomplete and out of date. Is there another source?
> James


Sorry but might go a bit OT here...

As Killer Brew says you need to contact the water authority directly. I downloaded the local water report from the internet. I found it was mostly about meeting standards for water quality, rather than exact reports of salt concentrations and pH (i.e.- a range rather than a mean for each analyte was published, and it's not a standard distribution). I therefore emailed the authority and very quickly had direct email contact with the Water Quality Engineer. He eyeballed the figures and supplied me with mode values for each analyte. These still only get you in the ballpark. My water supply is almost exclusively treated deep artesian bore-water. The salt values can vary considerably throughout the year; possibly rain water entering the aquifer has an influence. I then also boil the water the night before brewing to drive off chlorine (thankfully no chloramine in the local water). This also drives off CO2 in the water and reduces temporary hardness/bicarbonate levels. As a result boiled water has less buffering capacity than un-boiled, hence my preference for holding back 1/2 the acid addition, as I usually find I need less acid than my water chemistry calcs suggest based on my inputs using un-boiled water. Also the sodium and chloride levels of my tap-water are usually higher than most of the water profiles I try to emulate. I therefore often dilute the tap water with 10-20% of pure water (e.g. Pureau brand from Coles) that contains bugger all salts. I presume it is very pure RO water.


----------



## Chridech

Killer Brew said:


> Good info and you are bang on about consistency being the key. With your salts and acid additions do you add to the top of the basket while recirculating so that they wash straight into the mash or try to slip them down the side of the tube?


Ok, another one. I would be very wary about adding dried salts direct to the mash. My experience with Gypsum, and Calcium carbonate especially, is that they are not very soluble. Epsom salts seem to dissolve more easily. They take ages to dissipate when bringing the strike water up to mash temp, so adding them down the side of the mash tun may not work. I have never added salts to the mash tun whilst mashing and I don't think I ever will. 

I use liquid lactic acid (88%) in a squirty bottle to bring down pH. It seems to dissipate very quickly when added directly to the wort above the top perforated plate. Within a few minutes the pH has stabilised. From experience I have a rough idea how many drops it takes to drop pH by a certain amount. I only add a few drops at a time and can usually get pH to within 0.1 of 5.2. Funnily enough I have had to do this more often with the sparge water than the mash.

Another option is to use a pH stabiliser, which I have seen in the LHBS. Said to keep the mash pH bang on 5.2 and doesn't impart any flavour.

Edit: There's a current thread 'measuring water chemistry salt additions' or similar. Member MHB suggests making stock solutions of the salts at known concentration. This would likely negate my concern about salts not dissolving in the mash. A good suggestion.


----------



## skb

Excited to have my grain father now just time to put it together and do a brew


----------



## kaiserben

I just replaced the STC200 controller with a STC1000 flashed with STC1000p/OVBSC. 

Are there any easy-to-follow instructions on how to program steps? I assume each time I brew I'll need to re-program every step or timing that differs from the previous brew?


----------



## butisitart

gf brewing 101 :-
clip the mash canister supporting ring thing into the gf BEFORE you mash. :blink: .
not sure how i'm going to get out of this one just yet cos i'm halfway into a free flowing mash and don't want to disturb it
lucky it's only 5.2kg grainbill


----------



## tugger

Bugger


----------



## kaiserben

kaiserben said:


> I just replaced the STC200 controller with a STC1000 flashed with STC1000p/OVBSC.
> 
> Are there any easy-to-follow instructions on how to program steps? I assume each time I brew I'll need to re-program every step or timing that differs from the previous brew?


Setting most of these parameters was easy. A few I'm not totally sure about. Could someone tell me what they're using for some of these parameters? 

*Sd (Strike delay)* might as well be set as 0 unless you want the mash water to heat up at a particular time (eg in the morning before you wake up). 
*St (Strike water set point)* = Whatever you want the mash water temp to be when you add grains. 
*SO (Strike Output)* = 100? (ie using 100% element power to ramping up temps) 
*Pt1 (Mash Step 1 setpoint)* = 66 (for example) 
*Pd1 (Mash Step 1 duration)* = 60 (for example) 
*Pt2 (Mash Step 2 setpoint)* = 75 (for example) 
*Pd2 (Mash Step 2 duration)* = 10 (for example) 
What do I put in for Pt and Pd 3-6 if I don't need them? Do I set all Pd as 0 and Pt doesn't matter? 
*PO (Mashing Output) *= 25% 
*Ht (Hot Break Temp)* = Probably not needed (as regular GF controller doesn't have this feature). Right? 
*HO (Hot Break Output)* = Probably not needed (as regular GF controller doesn't have this feature). Right? 
*Hd (Hot Break Duration)* = Probably not needed (as regular GF controller doesn't have this feature). Right? 
*bO (Boil Output)* = 100 
*bd (Boil Duration)* = 60 (for a 60 min boil) 
*hd1 (Hop Alarm 1)* = Looks like I enter, for example, "5" for an addition 5 mins before flame out. 
*hd2 (Hop Alarm 2)* = 
*hd3 (Hop Alarm 3)* = 
*hd4 (Hop Alarm 4)* = 
*tc (Temp correction)* = check with another thermometer to see if needed 
*APF (Alarm/Pause Control Flags)* = 511 to use all alarms 
*PF (Pump Control Flags)* = For GF the pump control is manual, so I guess it doesn't matter what we put here ??? 
*Pd (Set heating period interval)* = ??? 
*cO (Manual Mode Output)* = ??? 
*cP (Manual Mode Pump)* = For GF the pump control is manual, so I guess it doesn't matter what we put here ??? 
*cSP (Manual Mode thermostat setpoint)* = ??? 
*ASd (Safety Shutdown Timer)* = ??? 
*rUn (Run Mode)* = I assume it's usually "OFF" and then to run it you want to change that to "Pr", is this correct?


----------



## butisitart

there is no way out if you forget to clip in the mash cannister support ring thing before you mash.
basic steps are :
1. get wife in heavy duty rubber gloves to clip it in after you raise cannister full height from gf.
2. get wife to lift cannister cos she wasn't sure how to clip it in and nearly lost ring into bottom of molten wort.
3. discover wife is too short to lift cannister full height from gf.
4. hold cannister up and drain wort while wife finds bucket wide enough to accommodate mash cannister.
5. dunk cannister into bucket, leaving sticky wort on side of gf and floor.
6. assemble f***king ring and praise wife. replace cannister and try to soak as much wort back into grain as you can
7. invite neighbour's toddler to lick sticky wort off floor.
8. sparge and move on.


----------



## Chridech

butisitart said:


> there is no way out if you forget to clip in the mash cannister support ring thing before you mash.
> basic steps are :
> 1. get wife in heavy duty rubber gloves to clip it in after you raise cannister full height from gf.
> 2. get wife to lift cannister cos she wasn't sure how to clip it in and nearly lost ring into bottom of molten wort.
> 3. discover wife is too short to lift cannister full height from gf.
> 4. hold cannister up and drain wort while wife finds bucket wide enough to accommodate mash cannister.
> 5. dunk cannister into bucket, leaving sticky wort on side of gf and floor.
> 6. assemble f***king ring and praise wife. replace cannister and try to soak as much wort back into grain as you can
> 7. invite neighbour's toddler to lick sticky wort off floor.
> 8. sparge and move on.


I'm sure you didn't drop a single f-bomb and your wife must really love you. Good recovery!


----------



## carniebrew

Ok I have to ask, what is the "mash cannister support ring thing"? Are you talking about the rubber ring that goes around the top mesh plate?


----------



## butisitart

the octagonal?? steel spring ring that clips into top of gf, that the mash cannister sits on when sparging.
no ring thing, no way to sparge.


----------



## meathead

I still don't get it

Pic please


----------



## carniebrew

butisitart said:


> the octagonal?? steel spring ring that clips into top of gf, that the mash cannister sits on when sparging.
> no ring thing, no way to sparge.


My grainfather has tabs on the mash pipe, and little steel bars at the top of the boiler, so when you lift the malt pipe you simply turn it to align the tabs so they sit on the bars. Sounds like you have something quite different.

See the four thin steel bars in this pic? https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Assets/images/Product_Images/Q47A.JPG

Here's a URL that has all the GF parts...can't see an octagonal ring in there either?
https://shop.brewcraftusa.com/Grainfather_Replacement_Parts.aspx


----------



## LAGERFRENZY

Probably not an octagon - I think he is alluding to the steel bars at the top that the malt pipe sits on to sparge?

Imagine lifting the malt pipe to find they were not there to rest it on I think is the vibe...


----------



## wambesi

He's talking about the support ring (that the tabs/legs on the mash tun rest on when raised) that is removable at the top of the Grainfather body. 

Looks like he removed it for cleaning and forgot to put it back in. Bugga.


----------



## meathead

wambesi said:


> He's talking about the support ring (that the tabs/legs on the mash tun rest on when raised) that is removable at the top of the Grainfather body.
> Looks like he removed it for cleaning and forgot to put it back in. Bugga.


Now it all makes sense.
Note to self never clean support ring


----------



## Coodgee

carniebrew said:


> My grainfather has tabs on the mash pipe, and little steel bars at the top of the boiler, so when you lift the malt pipe you simply turn it to align the tabs so they sit on the bars. Sounds like you have something quite different.
> 
> See the four thin steel bars in this pic? https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Assets/images/Product_Images/Q47A.JPG
> 
> Here's a URL that has all the GF parts...can't see an octagonal ring in there either?
> https://shop.brewcraftusa.com/Grainfather_Replacement_Parts.aspx


I didn't realise at first either but those support bars are joined together and can be removed as one large springy hexagonal piece. Have a close look. I take mine off every time for cleaning now.


----------



## paulyman

I didn't realise they came out either.


----------



## carniebrew

Well bugger me, I never knew that came out. Interesting that GF don't list that as a part in its own right, not do they seem to refer to it at all in the user manual/cleaning section. Thanks very much, now I know about it I'm sure I'm gonna forget to put it back after cleaning one day!!


----------



## Chridech

Coodgee said:


> I didn't realise at first either but those support bars are joined together and can be removed as one large springy hexagonal piece. Have a close look. I take mine off every time for cleaning now.





carniebrew said:


> Well bugger me, I never knew that came out. Interesting that GF don't list that as a part in its own right, not do they seem to refer to it at all in the user manual/cleaning section. Thanks very much, now I know about it I'm sure I'm gonna forget to put it back after cleaning one day!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_20160409_120132.jpg


Yep, bugger me too.


----------



## N3MIS15

kaiserben said:


> Setting most of these parameters was easy. A few I'm not totally sure about. Could someone tell me what they're using for some of these parameters?
> 
> *Sd (Strike delay)* might as well be set as 0 unless you want the mash water to heat up at a particular time (eg in the morning before you wake up).
> *St (Strike water set point)* = Whatever you want the mash water temp to be when you add grains.
> *SO (Strike Output)* = 100? (ie using 100% element power to ramping up temps)
> *Pt1 (Mash Step 1 setpoint)* = 66 (for example)
> *Pd1 (Mash Step 1 duration)* = 60 (for example)
> *Pt2 (Mash Step 2 setpoint)* = 75 (for example)
> *Pd2 (Mash Step 2 duration)* = 10 (for example)
> What do I put in for Pt and Pd 3-6 if I don't need them? Do I set all Pd as 0 and Pt doesn't matter?
> *PO (Mashing Output) *= 25%
> *Ht (Hot Break Temp)* = Probably not needed (as regular GF controller doesn't have this feature). Right?
> *HO (Hot Break Output)* = Probably not needed (as regular GF controller doesn't have this feature). Right?
> *Hd (Hot Break Duration)* = Probably not needed (as regular GF controller doesn't have this feature). Right?
> *bO (Boil Output)* = 100
> *bd (Boil Duration)* = 60 (for a 60 min boil)
> *hd1 (Hop Alarm 1)* = Looks like I enter, for example, "5" for an addition 5 mins before flame out.
> *hd2 (Hop Alarm 2)* =
> *hd3 (Hop Alarm 3)* =
> *hd4 (Hop Alarm 4)* =
> *tc (Temp correction)* = check with another thermometer to see if needed
> *APF (Alarm/Pause Control Flags)* = 511 to use all alarms
> *PF (Pump Control Flags)* = For GF the pump control is manual, so I guess it doesn't matter what we put here ???
> *Pd (Set heating period interval)* = ???
> *cO (Manual Mode Output)* = ???
> *cP (Manual Mode Pump)* = For GF the pump control is manual, so I guess it doesn't matter what we put here ???
> *cSP (Manual Mode thermostat setpoint)* = ???
> *ASd (Safety Shutdown Timer)* = ???
> *rUn (Run Mode)* = I assume it's usually "OFF" and then to run it you want to change that to "Pr", is this correct?



*Sd: correct*
*St: correct*
*SO: yep 100 to reach strike temp as fast as possible.*
*Pt1 through 6: I tend to set them a couple degrees over with a duration of 1-2 mins. set point 1 you wont need to over compensate since you should do this with strike temp.*
*Pd1** through 6: yep step duration. If you dont require any more steps set the duration for the remaining steps as zero.*
*PO: I use 33 (33% of full power of the element)*
*Ht: I have it set @ 99 (this setting is for the temp at which hotbreak occurs)*
*HO: should be 100 (full output of the element)*
*Hd: I have this set to 6 mins. This setting is for the time it takes the hotbreak to subside.*
*bO: correct*
*bd: correct, this timer will start after the Hd timer finishes.*
*hd1 through 4: correct, an "alarm" will occur at the minutes left in boil you enter*
*tc: correct*
*APF: correct*
*PF: correct*
*Pd: not sure about this 1. mine is set to 5 FWIW*
*cO: you can set the stc to run at a constant output (rather than the program). this should be a percentage.*
*cP: correct*
*cSP: the temp you want if running in constant output mode*
*ASd: -1 to disable*
*rUn: can be off, constant temp, constant output or your program (mash steps, hop alarms etc..)*

A simple brew for me would consist of setting the following variables..

St: 70
Pt1: 66
Pd1: 60
Pt2: 79
Pd2: 1
Pt3: 76
Pd3: 10

I like to overshoot when stepping up the mash mash to let the temp normalize though out.

Hd1: 60 
Hd2: 15
Hd3: 10
Hd4: 5

Once your ready to go change *rUn* to pr and thats it. All other settings I never need to change for my brews.

I *STRONGLY *suggest running a test with a bit of water in the grainfather for the first run, just to be sure. Believe me I know how daunting it is with all the settings, but once you have 1-2 brews with it its very easy to program.


----------



## kaiserben

Yep. I ran a test with 10L water last night. And brewed with it today. It went really well. 

Only 2 things kept today's brew day from being perfect: 

When it reached the target mash temps it didn't turn off immediately. In fact it kept rising another ~0.2C before the element would switch off (and as a result it overshot the main mash step by 2.0C). I'm guessing that it not turning off immediately was because my *Pd* (Set heating period interval) was set as 5 (seconds)? Would that be correct? I'm thinking I should change this to the minimum of 1. 

A bigger problem was at hot break time. I had set my Hot Break settings as what Matstaff at Github has suggested:
Ht (Hot Break Temp) = 98
HO (Hot Break Output) = 75
Hd (Hot Break Duration) = 15 

I need to re-think those because I happened to walk past when it had just reached this stage and it was actually boiling, displaying 101C and foaming like crazy, but not quite over the rim (phew!).


----------



## N3MIS15

kaiserben said:


> I'm guessing that it not turning off immediately was because my *Pd* (Set heating period interval) was set as 5 (seconds)? Would that be correct? I'm thinking I should change this to the minimum of 1.


I have this occur too. I may be totally wrong, but I think that the stc just heats until it reaches desired temp (as it should) but the element takes time to cool down which causes the overshoot. My system overshoots for a small amount of time then drops below the desired temp by 1-2 degrees before the element warms up again and the temp starts climbing back to and past desired temp again. I assume this is just the temp throughout the mash equalizing and hence why I overshoot when stepping. I really hope I'm wrong and someone can tell me exactly what it is I am doing wrong though. I do not claiming to know what I'm doing, just speaking from my experience with it  (8ish brews)


----------



## butisitart

thank christ for that. i thought i was going to have to photograph it and learn how to post. me no good with modern technology. h34r:
i also thought there must have been a different design on the newer gf.
so yeah - it were the spring thingy that holds the mash cannister. it's a new game you can play when you get bored of 'throw the mash pipe out with the spent grain'.


----------



## butisitart

wambesi said:


> He's talking about the support ring (that the tabs/legs on the mash tun rest on when raised) that is removable at the top of the Grainfather body.
> 
> Looks like he removed it for cleaning and forgot to put it back in. Bugga.


yep

i'm with meathead, above....
(quote)... Note to self never clean support ring... (unquote)


----------



## dibbz

banora brewer said:


> Just wondering how you guy's have got your grainfather set up, do you have a stand? I'm not sure how to set mine up, I would like to keep it off the floor. I would like to put my urn above it so I could sparge. Any ideas would be great.


Mine's on the floor but a couple of bricks would work, I got some hose to save using a jug to sparge. I can just use the urn to regulate the sparge. I fill the urn to the sparge volume from the grainfather calculator.


----------



## butisitart

Looks good to me. mine stays on floor without bricks - but that's an ergonomics choice, i guess. and mine is done in kitchen, so it gets moved in every time i brew. i assume your chiller has easy access to a tap from the top of the gf.


----------



## BrewedCrudeandBitter

Anyone had any issues with the original controller?

Mine read 23 when I started heating up the mash water and only made it's way up to 26 when my thermometer is reading 66.


----------



## carniebrew

BrewedCrudeandBitter said:


> Anyone had any issues with the original controller?
> 
> Mine read 23 when I started heating up the mash water and only made it's way up to 26 when my thermometer is reading 66.


I did, early days...my first one wouldn't turn the heat off regardless of the switch setting...got a replacement with no hassles, and it was playing up a bit too, which I realised was due to a loose wire inside the unit. Tightened it up and it's been fine every since.


----------



## alimac23

Hey guys!

I ordered my Grainfather last night, it's due to be delivered next Wednesday, can't wait to get into all grain!

It's coming with a free black jack dry stout kit, has anyone brewed this kit?


----------



## kaiserben

kaiserben said:


> When it reached the target mash temps it didn't turn off immediately. In fact it kept rising another ~0.2C before the element would switch off (and as a result it overshot the main mash step by 2.0C). I'm guessing that it not turning off immediately was because my *Pd* (Set heating period interval) was set as 5 (seconds)? Would that be correct? I'm thinking I should change this to the minimum of 1.





N3MI said:


> I have this occur too. I may be totally wrong, but I think that the stc just heats until it reaches desired temp (as it should) but the element takes time to cool down which causes the overshoot.


Yeah - I understand that overshoot will occur, but what's bugging me is that it was still heating when it is 0.2 above the set point (I could tell because the light was on to tell me that the element was still on). 

If I can work out how to make it switch off exactly on my set point it won't overshoot by as much as it did. It'll still overshoot, but won't be as drastic.


----------



## fishingbrad

Kaiserben, 2c is overshoot is normal for me when I have the base switch set to normal and 1c overshoot when I have it set to mash. What do you have your base switch set to ?


----------



## kaiserben

Well, for the purposes of STC1000 I've got the bottom switch set to "normal", because I then program the STC1000 what percentage of time the 2000W element should be on for. 

When ramping it's on 100% (after it reaches temp to hold it's set at 25%, which mimics the 250W element, as if the bottom swtich was set to "mash")

Like I said though, I understand some overshoot is going to occur, I just want the element power to cut out at the set point I've chosen, rather than a little bit after. 

This might be a question for the STC1000p developer on Github.


----------



## fishingbrad

Sorry ben, I did'nt read you put the 1000 in it.

cheers.


----------



## kaiserben

No worries.

I highly recommend the STC1000, by the way. Just trying to fine tune it.


----------



## butisitart

alimac23 said:


> Hey guys!
> 
> I ordered my Grainfather last night, it's due to be delivered next Wednesday, can't wait to get into all grain!
> 
> It's coming with a free black jack dry stout kit, has anyone brewed this kit?


no. just brew it anyway. it is probably tailor made for gf. after that, just enjoy the journey 
and welcome to the wonderful world of gf


----------



## Chridech

alimac23 said:


> Hey guys!
> I ordered my Grainfather last night, it's due to be delivered next Wednesday, can't wait to get into all grain!
> It's coming with a free black jack dry stout kit, has anyone brewed this kit?


Haven't brewed the blackjack dry stout but have put down two other Grainkids kits. I think they are pretty solid. The grain and hops are vacuum packed and seemed fresh enough. I am drinking the Jacked Up APA now and the hops are very good. Grain crush size is perfect for the GF, pay attention to it, as you will want to replicate the crush size for your own recipes. I'm not sure about the yeast though. The Witbier I brewed first up stalled during ferment. Probably something I did wrong, but there is no way to know how old and in what shape the MJ yeast packs are in. They are certainly not refrigerated. To play it safe I'd suggest using new yeast from your LHBS, probably get the same MJ strain without too much difficulty. Might also be worth pitching an extra sachet if the OG is >1.050, but that's a topic for another thread.

Also, if you are planning on putting down some hoppy brews a hop sock or spider is a pretty good idea. The MJ hop spider looks to be pretty good kit. I have the Keg King version and IMO the mesh is too fine. The MJ version looks better. A hop sock works and is cheap.


----------



## welly2

Today was the day my process was finally tuned in exactly. Made a rye IPA (which is tasting delicious, can't wait until it finishes fermenting!). Everything came together perfectly. I think I got the milling gap spot on - the grain was nicely crushed without too much flour, sparge went well - took about 20 minutes which is fine and to my surprise the OG was dead on as was the volume.

Things I did was get the water amounts just right and adjusted my mill gap. I've got a malt muncher and the gap is basically half way between 0.025 and 0.05. Before the sparge, I took the top plate off and gave the mash a good stir. Not for long but a fairly thorough stir. I measured the loss below the tap in my HLT (a Crown urn) and added the extra water to make up the loss so basically the exact amount of required sparge water went in. I did a 90 minute mash - that was a 75 minute mash at 66c and a 15 minute mash out.

I'll be doing exactly the same thing next brew day and see if I can repeat.


----------



## alimac23

Does the Grainfather come with the cleaner in the box? If not I'll have to run out and get some to do the initial clean.


----------



## carniebrew

alimac23 said:


> Does the Grainfather come with the cleaner in the box? If not I'll have to run out and get some to do the initial clean.


It should have, a little bottle anyway. But lots of alternatives, it's just stainless steel. Got any napisan or other sodium percarbonate?


----------



## alimac23

carniebrew said:


> It should have, a little bottle anyway. But lots of alternatives, it's just stainless steel. Got any napisan or other sodium percarbonate?


I haven't but I can run out and get some, will PBW be ok for the cleaning cycles?


----------



## meathead

alimac23 said:


> I haven't but I can run out and get some, will PBW be ok for the cleaning cycles?


Yep


----------



## meathead

Coldspace said:


> I double batch always with Grainfather , same time but get 2 cubes.
> I start with 23 ltrs, at strike temp then leave on mash low heat setting while stirring in,then slowly mash in my 8.5 to 9 kgs max of grains, slow and steady stir and stab with paddle up and down like mixing up concrete.
> Usually once I've stirred in about 7 kgs of grain, I swing the top pipe over the top of the grain bed, start pump, and pump approx 2 -3 ltrs of water ontop.
> This then makes it much easier to mash the final 2 kgs in.
> I usually then mash for 75 mins and do 20 min mash out at 78. This helps with sparging.
> Then, I just keep sparging till I see it dripped upto the 30 ltr mark.
> I then place the malt pipe into an old esky and sparge it with another 6 ltrs of water and just let the last goodness run out into esky while I boil. You can take top plate of, give the grain a stir and sparge with final water, I find I get the last sugars totally out. Then Usually about 7 to 8 ltrs trickles out into esky which works out perfect for top ups and keeps efficiency up. Sit the malt pipe ontop of a Tupperware container etc to keep it off the floor of esky or bucket to catch second sparge runnings.
> I then use this final runnings to top up the boil while doing my additions,
> Just top up slowly so the boil is not killed, or I have an immersion heater from my previous brewing days which is use to ramp up the temps in between strike and boils to save time.
> When my boil is done, I top right to top , about 10mm from lip with runnings or boiled water .
> I then wait for the temp to drop to about 90-92 degrees, then pump straight into 2 x 15 ltr cubes that I saved from fresh wort kits, or you can buy 15 ltr containers.
> The full double batch Grainfather fills 2 of these perfectly to the top.
> Seal, and leave, I also add my hop additions I would normally use at sub 15 mark into little hop socks straight into the cubes.
> What I have now is an over gravity for style 15 ltr cube, actually more like 16 lts.
> When time to ferment, I dump into fermenter and top up to 21 ltrs.
> I usually get OG of 1.046 to 1.048 which is plenty for me, and I get 2 x 19 ltr kegs from one cook up.
> Last sat, while doing yard work etc, I got 2 double batches , so 4 cubes of a nice pilsener and pale ale , and allowing for my immersion heater to save time and everything took about 7 hrs.start to cleaned and packed up. Also managed to mow yard and take kids to shops in between mash times to keep SWMBO happy. Lol
> Espescially using no chill, saves heaps of water and about 30 mins per Cook up. It's a no brainer.
> Unless doing a high grav brew, double batch all the way.
> I've done about 25-30 double batches now, and works a treat.
> Hope this helps.


Tried this method yesterday with the Rogers clone so not a large grain bill 6.5kg.
40 litres of water 23 strike 17 sparge
hit all my numbers and it does work a treat.

Observations

When adding water at the top as mash gets thicker take tubing off to make it easier
Can be fiddly topping up boil with running shoes so as not to kill boil but still better than brewing 2 seperate batches
I hopped at 175% of single batch quantities
Watch the hot break
Have a boiled kettle on stand by to top up to 30 if not enough runnings
Looking fwd to trying with a larger grain bill say a DSGA


----------



## carniebrew

alimac23 said:


> I haven't but I can run out and get some, will PBW be ok for the cleaning cycles?


Not just ok, it's perfect.


----------



## alimac23

Awesome, PBW it is, thanks guys!


----------



## Coldspace

meathead said:


> Tried this method yesterday with the Rogers clone so not a large grain bill 6.5kg.
> 40 litres of water 23 strike 17 sparge
> hit all my numbers and it does work a treat.
> Observations
> When adding water at the top as mash gets thicker take tubing off to make it easier
> Can be fiddly topping up boil with running shoes so as not to kill boil but still better than brewing 2 seperate batches
> I hopped at 175% of single batch quantities
> Watch the hot break
> Have a boiled kettle on stand by to top up to 30 if not enough runnings
> Looking fwd to trying with a larger grain bill say a DSGA


Good to see you giving it ago" I never single batch now not enough time. When you get up over 7 kgs you will lose like 5 to 10% efficiency but as I only brew the doubles to 21 ltrs to fill 19 lts kegs I still get a full strength beer.

Who cares about getting perfect efficiency for the time saved. A few grav points under for double batch . Only way to go unless not time poor.

I'm going to get a grain bro or 40ltr urn soon, so I can punch out 6 to 8 , 15 ltr cubes on a full sat brew day.


----------



## kaiserben

meathead said:


> Tried this method yesterday with the Rogers clone so not a large grain bill 6.5kg.
> 40 litres of water 23 strike 17 sparge



Coldspace, roughly what amount of water do you use for your 8.5-9kg batches? Same as Meathead here? 
I can see you started with 23L Mash water, but then your total sparge water is a bit vague. 





meathead said:


> I hopped at 175% of single batch quantities


Can you just explain exactly why you've reduced it? 

I'll design a double batch recipe in BeerSmith. That program allows me to build in kettle and fermenter top ups, so can I assume it'll get my hop utilisations right and I don't need to worry?


----------



## meathead

I did a bit of research on the interwebs re hop qty, I believe it's to do with utilisation. Beer smith will probably do it for you
Re water I went 30l + 1l per kg of grain + 3.5l boil off. Could have done with 2 more litres for dead space


----------



## Coldspace

I start with 23 ltrs, I then sparge out till the kettle is up around 29 to 30 ltrs, approx 16 to 17 trs .
I then lift the basket into an esky to let the last juice drain off, and sparge with another 5 to 6 ltrs or so .

The info was buried in my original post but I will try and make more sense I hope, 

I use this to keep the kettle topped right up during boil to the 30 ltr mark. At end of boil i throw in another 2 ltrs of boiling water. This keeps the grain father up around 32 ltrs. Approx 10 mm from top.

I then pump this into 2 x 15 ltr cubes I have from FWK. Usually around 16 ltrs fits in. That's why I want 32 ltrs at end of boil.

These 16 ltrs then go into a fermenter each and topped upto 21 ltrs.

This gives me 2 x 19 ltr kegs at around 4.8% to 5.2 % beer.

Just be mindful , 9 kg is absolute max, but most of my pale ale receipes and lagers I've designed are around 4.25 kgs , so 8.5 kgs is a lot better.

Definitely after about 6 kgs has been mashed in run the pump onto top with about 3 to 4 ltrs and then mash in last few kgs. Makes it heaps easier.

Mash for standard time, but do a 25 min mash out at 78 to make sure the liquid has had time to slowly go through the thick grain bed. Makes sparge easier.

Start sparge straight away, receipes with wheat tend to sparge a lot slower.

I find the sparge to the 30 ltr mark is usually around the same time the grain father has nearly reached boil.

Go about 20 % less on bittering additions because of no chill.

Be mindful the grain weight basket is heavy on initial lift when sodden, so if not strong have someone help of keep grain father milk crate height to make lift easier.
Don't want to slip and plunge it down into the water and splash 80 degree liquid out.

Takes about 30 mins longer than single batch because of the extended mash out and slower sparge, but you get 2 brews out of it.
And because I no- chill , I save 30 mins and heap of water, plus I think my no chill batches seem better anyway because I cube hop my pale ales.

I am presses for time a lot because of work / family commitments and because I've got too many family/mates wanting to drink my beers I run out a lot despite 3 fermenting fridges lol.
So I'm gunna get a grain bro, so in 4 to 5 hrs I'll get 4 cubes/kegs. That way I will only need to brew once a month .


Easy as, done about 50 kegs like this now. With receipes. Only way to roll.

Cheers


----------



## N3MIS15

Funny enough I was planning to do a double batch with grainfather next weekend. A big thanks for all the info posted by all. It definitely will help with my upcomming brew


----------



## alimac23

My Grainfather arrives tomorrow, looking forward to getting my first all grain brew under my belt.

I've got the black jack stout kit coming with it but I'm thinking it would be wise to brew a beer that I've brewed with extract before so I can see the differences, thinking of a smurtos golden ale as my first one.


----------



## meathead

alimac23 said:


> My Grainfather arrives tomorrow, looking forward to getting my first all grain brew under my belt.
> I've got the black jack stout kit coming with it but I'm thinking it would be wise to brew a beer that I've brewed with extract before so I can see the differences, thinking of a smurtos golden ale as my first one.


Good idea
Because there's wheat in DSGA make sure u start sparge asap as otherwise it can take quite a while
Hop socks are handy
Stir in hot break at start of boil
Good luck


----------



## Coodgee

meathead said:


> Stir in hot break at start of boil
> Good luck


Skim that filthy scum!!!!


----------



## carniebrew

It kinda depends what side of the fence you sit....if you're using kettle finings such as whirlfloc/irish moss, then most of your hot and cold break will settle to the bottom of the kettle after flameout/chilling. Lots of people prefer to leave that break material behind when racking to their fermenter. But plenty more just tip every last little bit into the fermenter and let it drop out during fermentation.

I reckon with the Grainfather's filter located where it is, it's much easier to leave it behind....you have to tip the GF in order to get it out, so I rarely bother.


----------



## alimac23

Thanks guys, the Grainfather arrived today, I've run it through a clean to get rid of any manufacturing oils / residuals that were left and I'm very impressed so far, I never realised how quiet the whole thing is, the pump especially!

Hopefully I can get to the store and get the grain milled for a smurtos otherwise I'll brew the stout that come with it, I've just noticed that the deltafloc tablet is missing from my mangrove jacks kit, will it make a massive difference if I don't use it or would it be advisable to go and get some?

View attachment 88199


----------



## Smokomark

carniebrew said:


> It kinda depends what side of the fence you sit....if you're using kettle finings such as whirlfloc/irish moss, then most of your hot and cold break will settle to the bottom of the kettle after flameout/chilling. Lots of people prefer to leave that break material behind when racking to their fermenter. But plenty more just tip every last little bit into the fermenter and let it drop out during fermentation.
> 
> I reckon with the Grainfather's filter located where it is, it's much easier to leave it behind....you have to tip the GF in order to get it out, so I rarely bother.


Good call Carnie. No tip for chilling or no chill


----------



## carniebrew

alimac23 said:


> Thanks guys, the Grainfather arrived today, I've run it through a clean to get rid of any manufacturing oils / residuals that were left and I'm very impressed so far, I never realised how quiet the whole thing is, the pump especially!
> 
> Hopefully I can get to the store and get the grain milled for a smurtos otherwise I'll brew the stout that come with it, I've just noticed that the deltafloc tablet is missing from my mangrove jacks kit, will it make a massive difference if I don't use it or would it be advisable to go and get some?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1461152757.898711.jpg


It won't make a massive difference, i've forgotten to add the floc tablet a few times before....clarity won't be as good, but if it's a stout that won't matter much.


----------



## N3MIS15

I just completed my first double batch with grainfather. I was after 1.045 @ 42 litres and ended up with with 1.046 @ 43 litres. I pretty much followed Coldspace's instructions to a tee, but rather than keep topping up the grainfather with the extra sparge, I put it in a pot on the stove and boiled it for 5-10 mins the chilled in sink and added to the fermenter. 
Super happy with the results.
Cheers.


----------



## tugger

I came across this video. 
http://youtu.be/s9J1jEqAGho


----------



## Coldspace

Nice video, hats off to people who take the time to do these.

I do things abit diff, like the addition of gloves  , maybe the health and safety requirements of his country 
Or us Aussies are just hard bastards.

I was thinking of a grain bro to up production, but will not get one as they don't come with a malt pipe, and with double batches now for most beers hardly worth the extra 600 cost. Doesn't save much more time except 1 hr or so. 
Prob better to mash the double, tip straight into a 40 ltr urn, and sparge finish ,do boil, then mash straight away into the grain father 2 nd batch. Same sort of **** around, to up production.

I think if we could get the second malt pipe then the Grain bro would be the go, but apparently ( according to my Homebrew shop) they won't even sell you the second baskets. Pity mr grain father, if this is true then poor form. Rant lol.

Done 2 double batches today while drinking and playing two up with mates,

Lest we forget!!!!!!!


----------



## N3MIS15

I did my second double batch today (yay long weekend)
some notes:
pre boil (in grainfather) 30l @ 1.063
8l runnings put in a 10l pot @ 1.017 (again, pre boil)
I ended up with 34l @ 1.060 (combined post boil of grainfather and pot runnings)
I added cold water to fermenter to reach 42l @ 1.047 OG.

All in all, very pleased with my double batch attempts.
Cheers, and thanks to all who paved the way.


----------



## Goodbeer

Hello all

Did my first grainfather batch last Saturday...was first all grain too. Now it's done I wish I'd started earlier.

Hit all my targets, ran smoothly, took forever as I was being over cautious with everything, but that should get better with each brew.

Only thing is got a few scorch marks on the element. I gave it a light scrape with the paddle a few times during the brew as I'd read you should, but still got a few.

Scrubbed for close to an hour with hot water and the gf cleaning solution, got rid of most but still a few marks.

Just wondering if anybody had any luck with any other cleaners for this sort of thing?

Thanks


----------



## meathead

Lemon juice does the trick
Welcome to the dark side


----------



## Coldspace

I also find that sodium percarbonate works better than the Grainfather cleaner. I run mine around with pump and 10 ltrs of 60 degree water then scrub with nylon scourer, then rinse with water


----------



## tugger

I am going to try and double batch with the grainfather pumping into my old mash tun, a round cooler with a false bottom and tap, then using a keg King pump with a ball valve on the outlet to pump back to the grainfather. 
The gf will keep the temp stable on both mash tuns with 7 kg in each vessel. 
The plan is to then sparge into a 50L keggle and end up with 43L of beer in 2 fermenters. I'm going to do this on the weekend. I hope it works out, I need more spare time. 
Even if I get 40l at 1.060 I will be happy.


----------



## tugger

And as for cleaning I use steel wool. 
Not the smooth kind the rough stainless steel ones and I rip into it. 
It's not made of gold, I see people say oh I used perc and Then Tri Chlor/pink and then I used vinegar and some acid with soft sponge,ffs get some steel wool with water and scrub the scale and shit off it. 
Your willing to throw the whole periodic table at it but won't touch it with a scourer. 
Not aimed at you coldspace I agree perc is an awesome cleaner but some gf snobs won't touch it.


----------



## tugger

I made this a few weeks ago. Might as well share. 

http://youtu.be/4bVvrpAVqG4


----------



## Parks

That wasn't a burnt element. Do a witbier and you'll know a burnt element.


----------



## Parks

tugger said:


> I am going to try and double batch with the grainfather pumping into my old mash tun, a round cooler with a false bottom and tap, then using a keg King pump with a ball valve on the outlet to pump back to the grainfather.
> The gf will keep the temp stable on both mash tuns with 7 kg in each vessel.
> The plan is to then sparge into a 50L keggle and end up with 43L of beer in 2 fermenters. I'm going to do this on the weekend. I hope it works out, I need more spare time.
> Even if I get 40l at 1.060 I will be happy.


I've done 2 partigyles recently similarly to this but with the grain 100% in my 50L keg mash tun and gravity draining down to the GF. Worked brilliantly.


----------



## Goodbeer

Thanks guys, will try all above and see which works best


----------



## tugger

That's a good idea parks, I might omit the second pump and just sit the mash tun on the bench and gravity Feed the gf with grains in both using the tap on the tun to control the flow. The excess will flow down the overflow, I just need to keep the top tun full.


----------



## kaiserben

Goodbeer said:


> Only thing is got a few scorch marks on the element. I gave it a light scrape with the paddle a few times during the brew as I'd read you should, but still got a few.
> 
> Scrubbed for close to an hour with hot water and the gf cleaning solution, got rid of most but still a few marks.


I've scorched pretty badly in the past (due more to user error than anything else). I still get minor scorching occasionally, depending on the grain bill. 

So I've got a little bit of experience and have tried all sorts of methods. Most recently I soaked 3 times over 72 hours:

Firstly with the GF cleaner, brought liquid to boil then left overnight. Scrubbed in the morning with scouring side of a kitchen sponge. 
Secondly with Sodium Perc, brought liquid to boil then left overnight. Scrubbed in the morning with scouring side of a kitchen sponge. 
And finally, GF cleaner (stronger than the recommended amount) and washing soda, brought liquid to the boil. Scrubbed in the morning with scouring side of a kitchen sponge and this time, with a little elbow grease, the scorching came off. 

So my advice is that sometimes you'll have to do multiple soaks. And sometimes you're going to have to make your cleaning solutions a bit stronger than recommended for a regular clean through.


----------



## Futur

Goodbeer said:


> Hello all
> 
> Did my first grainfather batch last Saturday...was first all grain too. Now it's done I wish I'd started earlier.
> 
> Hit all my targets, ran smoothly, took forever as I was being over cautious with everything, but that should get better with each brew.
> 
> Only thing is got a few scorch marks on the element. I gave it a light scrape with the paddle a few times during the brew as I'd read you should, but still got a few.
> 
> Scrubbed for close to an hour with hot water and the gf cleaning solution, got rid of most but still a few marks.
> 
> Just wondering if anybody had any luck with any other cleaners for this sort of thing?
> 
> Thanks


I've used citric acid before which worked a treat. I'm about to give caustic soda a go which I imagine should work just as well.


----------



## Coodgee

I got myself a hop sock from craftbrewer recently to replace some hop bags that were starting to fall apart from old age. When I was chilling (I like to recirculate to get the whole brew down to ~30 degrees) I got the idea to put the outlet of the chiller into the hopsock to filter out some of the cold break. to my surprise it did a really, really good job of this and there was almost no trub at all in the bottom of the grainfather. It was clean wort all the way to bottom. I think I'll continue doing this as it's a good way to increase efficiency because you can transfer every last drop of wort into the fermenter with minimal trub making it in.


----------



## Killer Brew

Futur said:


> I've used citric acid before which worked a treat. I'm about to give caustic soda a go which I imagine should work just as well.


I cut a lemon in half and scrubbed the element with that. It cleaned up a treat with minimal elbow grease and I felt at one with nature h34r:


----------



## Goodbeer

I'm down with the lemon. Just did the same as you killer brew, a few drops straight from the lemon and scorch marks pretty much just wiped off with a cloth! 

I was scrubbing the element for literally an hour with the gf cleaner at 55 degrees post brew, got me nowhere.

Thanks again

Hey another possibly stupid question, is it normal to wash pre brew as well as post brew? Or do people just wash after use and that's it?


----------



## carniebrew

Just post brew for me.


----------



## Chridech

Post brew then a quick rinse with cold water and flush of the chiller pre-brew for me.


----------



## kaiserben

Just post brew with cleaning product.

However pre-brew I always pump some hot tap water through the system & chiller, then discard that water, then I start the batch with fresh, cold tap water.


----------



## paulyman

kaiserben said:


> Just post brew with cleaning product.
> 
> However pre-brew I always pump some hot tap water through the system & chiller, then discard that water, then I start the batch with fresh, cold tap water.


I do exactly the same. Although I'm going to be honest and say that after nearly 5 brews I haven't used the chiller once, it's still untouched. All no chill for me at the moment.


----------



## tugger

Mines packed away too. 
I have been immersion chilling for a few months now, I probably won't go back.


----------



## welly2

This sounds interesting!


----------



## N3MIS15

Indeed it does. If they have mash/boil steps this would be very intriguing (even as a stc1000+ user)


----------



## paulyman

Where did you find that bit of gold Welly?


----------



## Hippy

welly2 said:


> This sounds interesting!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 13267950_10153729401622879_8266060801187308993_n.jpg


Good news.


----------



## welly2

paulyman said:


> Where did you find that bit of gold Welly?


It was on the Grainfather Users Facebook group. I think it was leaked a bit early - someone from iMake came on and said they were planning on announcing it tomorrow by email.


----------



## paulyman

Ah, woke up to see the email had arrived overnight. Exciting, now we just need to wait for price.


----------



## A.B.

yeah wonder how much the price of a new unit will go up, and how much for just the box to retro-fit...


----------



## tugger

I'm thinking around 300 bucks is fair.


----------



## Coodgee

I don't think I'd get $300 worth of utility out of being able to program the mash steps and set/monitor via bluetooth. It would be nice to be able to have the grainfather filled with mash water the night before then grab my phone at 6am and set it to start heating while I snooze for another half hour. But I could acheive the same outcome with a $10 timer. I don't do much step mashing lately but I'm usually hovering around the grain father anyway, testing mash ph, adding salts, testing again etc.


----------



## stuartf

Reading the release in the gf Facebook page it sounds pretty interesting with full pid control of steps etc via Bluetooth etc. I'll look forward to hearing some reviews of the beta units that are being tested.


----------



## MastersBrewery

Coodgee said:


> I don't think I'd get $300 worth of utility out of being able to program the mash steps and set/monitor via bluetooth. It would be nice to be able to have the grainfather filled with mash water the night before then grab my phone at 6am and set it to start heating while I snooze for another half hour. But I could acheive the same outcome with a $10 timer. I don't do much step mashing lately but I'm usually hovering around the grain father anyway, testing mash ph, adding salts, testing again etc.


 I don't have a grainfather, I built a brauclone, one of the best features is being able to mash in and walk away for a few hours, mow the lawns catch up on the honey do-s. Means I can brew more often and the boss is happy too. The bluetooth app is a big bonus. If your young and single with no ankle biters 4-6 hrs of brewing only is all good. Kids, Wife, Work impact on time to brew for most, this is a great move forward for bloke multitasking.


----------



## kaiserben

Yesterday I left my self-upgraded controller (STC1000p) doing a 55C > 64C > 72C > 75C step mash while I went off to have Yum Cha. Came back as it was rising to the 75C step. 

So there's a lot of bonuses in having an improved controller. Dunno that it'll cost as much as $300 either.


----------



## stuartf

The gf post suggests the cost of upgrading to the new controller will be the same as buying a new gf with the new controller so I doubt they would bump the price up $300? One of the big strengths is the cost vs the brewmeister so they would want to maintain that i think.


----------



## welly2

There was a mention of it costing around $200 on the Facebook group although not sure where that information came from. I'd be surprised if it's any less than $150 somehow.


----------



## kaiserben

My guess is between $100-150. 

I reckon it cost me $50 to upgrade to STC1000 and flash it with firmware (but that firmware is free and not guaranteed in any way). 

I recently built a fridge temp controller (that with a little more work could be turned into a PID GF controller) using a Raspberry Pi with in-built wifi, which graphs my temperatures and allows me to set ferment shcedules using my phone or PC. It cost me roughly $75, but I had someone doing all the coding for me for free.


----------



## griffin_rm

My pump doesn't seem to work well. Water will only trickle out of it slightly. I reset the machine and cleaned the discharge pipe, but that still didn't work. Has anyone else had this issue, or have any potential solutions? Thanks


----------



## stuartf

Never had issues with the pump, have you used it before with no problems? Maybe check all the obvious things like spring and ball bearing are in the right way around, fittings are screwed on correctly and not cross threaded?


----------



## wambesi

The pumps are usually really good - it is easy to pull apart and have a look inside. Also get in touch with your retailer if you can't get it working as if it's not that old we may be able to get you a new/refurb one - they may even have one around.


----------



## wildwhitty

The only time I had trouble with the pump it was hop debris in the spring and ball
They have been sitting in the spare parts drawer ever since.


----------



## TSMill

Hi guys, helping a mate commission his grainfather today. In the instructions part 11, I'm not sure why the soak/holds for beta glucan and protein rests are via the normal (2kW) setting, and sacchrification using mash (500W) setting. ANY logic in this, I would have thought large element to ramp and small to soak in all cases.


----------



## Wee Jimmy

The times of each are normally 5 - 10 minutes leaving the switch on normal is easy to operate then the 60 min mash on mash - 500w setting.


----------



## carniebrew

TSMill said:


> Hi guys, helping a mate commission his grainfather today. In the instructions part 11, I'm not sure why the soak/holds for beta glucan and protein rests are via the normal (2kW) setting, and sacchrification using mash (500W) setting. ANY logic in this, I would have thought large element to ramp and small to soak in all cases.


I figure the soak/holds for the earlier steps aren't considered as temp critical, whereas sacc is. But I reckon you'd be fine using 2kw to ramp, then switching to 500W for each hold step regardless of temp.


----------



## Killer Brew

Yeah, think using the smaller element provides more accurate temp control at a holding point. I usually switch to the 500W at any holding temp if i remember to do it and then back to full for ramping.


----------



## mxd

hi All.

I've borrowed our clubs GF to brew demo to a friend. Well my efficiency sucked, 55% planed for 75
An APA 5kg (added 1.5kg dme for efficiency) 150g hops, 23 into fermenter

some things to consider when I try again tomorrow.

finer crush
this was the crush which is my normal 4v crush

The sparge was super quick not too sure what I may have done wrong, could I have had the top plate up too high during mash, I pushed it down for the sparge. ?

More water in mash, to overcome my shit sparge ?

may recirc mash back over grain basket ?

I plan on doing a GF and 4V 

thoughts.

It seemed a long day, it struggled to get to boil.
temp overshoot, a PID (which is coming I believe) would be great.
it's skinny and my mash paddle is almost too big 
I used a hop basket so it was pretty clear till the end
first time I have chilled, it chilled to 15 at full flow and only used 80 ltrs of water (i used to clean my rig for tomorrow)

cheers


----------



## carniebrew

mxd said:


> hi All.
> 
> I've borrowed our clubs GF to brew demo to a friend. Well my efficiency sucked, 55% planed for 75
> An APA 5kg (added 1.5kg dme for efficiency) 150g hops, 23 into fermenter
> 
> some things to consider when I try again tomorrow.
> 
> finer crush
> this was the crush which is my normal 4v crush
> 
> The sparge was super quick not too sure what I may have done wrong, could I have had the top plate up too high during mash, I pushed it down for the sparge. ?
> 
> More water in mash, to overcome my shit sparge ?
> 
> may recirc mash back over grain basket ?
> 
> I plan on doing a GF and 4V
> 
> thoughts.
> 
> It seemed a long day, it struggled to get to boil.
> temp overshoot, a PID (which is coming I believe) would be great.
> it's skinny and my mash paddle is almost too big
> I used a hop basket so it was pretty clear till the end
> first time I have chilled, it chilled to 15 at full flow and only used 80 ltrs of water (i used to clean my rig for tomorrow)
> 
> cheers


Did you not recirc during the mash? You're certainly supposed to.
On the temp overshoot, did you switch the element over during the mash so it was only using the 500w instead of 2kw?
Why the DME? 5kg of grain is a breeze for the GF, with the right crush, mash out and sparge you should be hitting 75% min, often over 80% efficiency.
Having the top plate high during the mash shouldn't be an issue. Pushing it down for sparge is ok, if you pushed it down to hard then it'd likely slow your sparge rather than speed it up.


----------



## mxd

carniebrew said:


> ==Did you not recirc during the mash? You're certainly supposed to.
> 
> I did, I meant recirc for sparge
> 
> ===On the temp overshoot, did you switch the element over during the mash so it was only using the 500w instead of 2kw?
> 
> I switched when it hit temp (65) then hit 67.
> 
> 
> ===Why the DME? 5kg of grain is a breeze for the GF, with the right crush, mash out and sparge you should be hitting 75% min, often over 80% efficiency.
> 
> as I said my efficiency was 55%
> 
> ==Having the top plate high during the mash shouldn't be an issue. Pushing it down for sparge is ok, if you pushed it down to hard then it'd likely slow your sparge rather than speed it up.
> 
> my sparge was super quick


----------



## N3MIS15

I think a finer crush would help quite a bit. I used a course crush at first with grainfather but found a bit finer helped with my efficiency.


----------



## Chridech

mxd said:


> ==Did you not recirc during the mash? You're certainly supposed to.
> 
> I did, I meant recirc for sparge
> 
> ===On the temp overshoot, did you switch the element over during the mash so it was only using the 500w instead of 2kw?
> 
> I switched when it hit temp (65) then hit 67.
> 
> 
> ===Why the DME? 5kg of grain is a breeze for the GF, with the right crush, mash out and sparge you should be hitting 75% min, often over 80% efficiency.
> 
> as I said my efficiency was 55%
> 
> ==Having the top plate high during the mash shouldn't be an issue. Pushing it down for sparge is ok, if you pushed it down to hard then it'd likely slow your sparge rather than speed it up.
> 
> my sparge was super quick
Click to expand...

Efficiency of 75-85% can be expected with the GF if everything falls into line. Following on from the discussion above ^^ the other factors that could potentially affect efficiency are mash pH too high or a too coarse grain crush. Given that you had a very quick sparge I suspect that grain crush may have been a little too coarse for the GF. My first brew I had too coarse a crush and probably too high mash pH and my efficiency was 53%. I have a friend with a 3V system who uses a far more coarse crush than I do with the GF but get similar efficiency. Try a finer crush, not much use recommending a mill setting as it differs depending upon the make.

Edit: N3MI beat me to it!


----------



## mxd

ok 

dong this one today

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: 23 ltr AIPA Grainfather
Brewer: Matt
Asst Brewer: 
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0) 

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 25.81 l
Post Boil Volume: 23.92 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 l 
Bottling Volume: 23.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.069 SG
Estimated Color: 30.9 EBC
Estimated IBU: 59.6 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
0.19 oz Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 - 
5.50 kg Golden Promise (Bairds) (10.4 EBC) Grain 2 82.1 % 
0.50 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (27.6 EBC) Grain 3 7.5 % 
0.50 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (7.0 Grain 4 7.5 % 
0.20 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (465.7 EBC) Grain 5 3.0 % 
30.00 g Citra [11.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 32.8 IBUs 
18.60 oz Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 7 - 
40.00 g Amarillo [8.60 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 8 12.4 IBUs 
40.00 g Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 14.4 IBUs 
40.00 g Citra [11.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 10 0.0 IBUs 
3.4 pkg American Ale II 1272 (Wyeast #1272) Yeast 11 - 
20.00 g Citra [11.00 %] - Dry Hop 3.0 Days Hop 12 0.0 IBUs 
20.00 g Mosaic [12.50 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 13 0.0 IBUs 

I will make i a finer crush and see how I go
ta


----------



## mxd

ok, so i did a fine crush, probably stuck sparge to come up 

the big diff now whilst it's mashing is the overflow pipe is being used, yesterday it could run freely through the grist. 

I will let you know how it goes and how the beer is (my first chilling time, so my recipes have been adjusted for that  )


----------



## N3MIS15

I would allow a little more liquid for the boil. grainfather should boil off 2.5l per half hour.


----------



## mxd

N3MI said:


> I would allow a little more liquid for the boil. grainfather should boil off 2.5l per half hour.


I was ignoring that part of the recipe

I put 25 ltrs in to start and now need 8 ltr sparge, I'm spargine at the moment and it dripping through nice and slow.

I'll take a reading when done.

got 27 @1.057 post sparge
the sparge was probably 3 pints (45 for those who use different time measurements  )

finished with 21 in the fermenter @ 1.066


----------



## SimoB

hey all, using the grainfather this morning and my wort is not clearing up at all, been about 45 mins now, I'm thinking im not getting much flow through the grain bed as the overflow pipe is in full swing.

Anyone else had this issue? I'm thinking it has something to do with my crush size, maybe a but fine. I think the beer will be fine but it's a little frustrating.

cheers,
Simo


----------



## Killer Brew

SimoB said:


> hey all, using the grainfather this morning and my wort is not clearing up at all, been about 45 mins now, I'm thinking im not getting much flow through the grain bed as the overflow pipe is in full swing.
> 
> Anyone else had this issue? I'm thinking it has something to do with my crush size, maybe a but fine. I think the beer will be fine but it's a little frustrating.
> 
> cheers,
> Simo


Using any wheat? Sometimes mine doesn't run clear until quite late or even mash out. If you arent getting enough flow you will hear the pump gurgling.


----------



## Killer Brew

Chridech said:


> Efficiency of 75-85% can be expected with the GF if everything falls into line. Following on from the discussion above ^^ the other factors that could potentially affect efficiency are mash pH too high or a too coarse grain crush. Given that you had a very quick sparge I suspect that grain crush may have been a little too coarse for the GF. My first brew I had too coarse a crush and probably too high mash pH and my efficiency was 53%. I have a friend with a 3V system who uses a far more coarse crush than I do with the GF but get similar efficiency. Try a finer crush, not much use recommending a mill setting as it differs depending upon the make.
> Edit: N3MI beat me to it!


I changed supplier for my last 2 grain bills and the crush was a lot coarser than my normal LHBS (i dont own a mill). On average i dropped 20 points of efficiency so a huge difference. Both were only 4-5 kg bills. Had to use DME to bump it up for the first time ever. Changing back to my usual supplier.


----------



## SimoB

Killer Brew said:


> I changed supplier for my last 2 grain bills and the crush was a lot coarser than my normal LHBS (i dont own a mill). On average i dropped 20 points of efficiency so a huge difference. Both were only 4-5 kg bills. Had to use DME to bump it up for the first time ever. Changing back to my usual supplier.


not using wheat, I also have a mill, I'm putting it down to the crush being too fine and too much flour. all good, nxt time i'll change the setting


----------



## btrots87

Same thing happened to me last brew, sparging was a nightmare. The beer has fermented out just fine but it wasn't a fun brew day. I got the grain from a new supplier, still crushed at 1mm but I'm wondering if the different mill is the problem. 

Going to add rice hulls to all my brews from now on, just in case.


----------



## Coldspace

Run for 90 mins, usually clears up if slow drainage.


----------



## fishingbrad

Yes this has happened to me from time to time, through the same LHBS, crush too fine, lots of flour = grey goop on top of grain bed = no water passing through the grain bed.

Solution; next purchase- Grain mill.


----------



## carniebrew

Brewing a hefeweizen today...can't find my little overflow inlet doover anywhere! Argh. $25 for a new one too...


----------



## Killer Brew

carniebrew said:


> Brewing a hefeweizen today...can't find my little overflow inlet doover anywhere! Argh. $25 for a new one too...


Easy to lose when you are tipping spent grain. Retrieved mine from the chook shed once already.


----------



## carniebrew

I have dumped it into the bin with the grain before, but usually take it off since then. It's been 4 months since I've brewed so buggered if I can recall now.

Didn't make any difference to my brew though, no grain through to the wort, hit all my numbers spot on. I guess it's not all that important.


----------



## woodwormm

Hoping not to get too flamed for asking a possibly already covered topic. I have searched but to no avail.

(disregarding the brewing theory implications) would it be possible to mash in cold the night before, use a timer and have the grainfather turn on at say 4am, begin heating and recircing and be ready to sparge when i get up around 6am? 

I guess what i'm asking is, once the values have been set on the unit, temp, element on, pump on. do they hold their position if the power goes out , and comes back on again? as essentially i'd turn it on, set it up, then turn off and let the timer turn it back on in the early early hours? 

Cheers


----------



## paulyman

The only thing I can add is that on mine when I've finished the boil and had the pump off for an hour or so it usually requires repriming or it just cavitates slightly. So if that is not just an issue with mine then that could cause dramas when the timer kicks in. Once the new PID comes out it will no doubt prime the pump itself so this will work beautifully.


----------



## MastersBrewery

printed forms section said:


> Hoping not to get too flamed for asking a possibly already covered topic. I have searched but to no avail.
> 
> (disregarding the brewing theory implications) would it be possible to mash in cold the night before, use a timer and have the grainfather turn on at say 4am, begin heating and recircing and be ready to sparge when i get up around 6am?
> 
> I guess what i'm asking is, once the values have been set on the unit, temp, element on, pump on. do they hold their position if the power goes out , and comes back on again? as essentially i'd turn it on, set it up, then turn off and let the timer turn it back on in the early early hours?
> 
> Cheers


If it doesnt out of the box (and I believe it should ) you have a few choices. 

Upgrade to an STC1000.

Wait for the soon to be released (we hope) wiz bang GF controller with phone app.

Matho's controller.

This isn't something that would hold me back from purchasing, the new controller will be available to existing users once released.


----------



## Killer Brew

printed forms section said:


> Hoping not to get too flamed for asking a possibly already covered topic. I have searched but to no avail.
> 
> (disregarding the brewing theory implications) would it be possible to mash in cold the night before, use a timer and have the grainfather turn on at say 4am, begin heating and recircing and be ready to sparge when i get up around 6am?
> 
> I guess what i'm asking is, once the values have been set on the unit, temp, element on, pump on. do they hold their position if the power goes out , and comes back on again? as essentially i'd turn it on, set it up, then turn off and let the timer turn it back on in the early early hours?
> 
> Cheers


I have done this to preheat and it works. Haven't mashed in the night before but can't see why not as long as the pump doesn't need priming as others suggested. My last 2 brews I have done the mash in the evening up to the point of into kettle and then set the timer to bring it up to just below boil the next morning. Wake up and bring it up a few degrees and I'm off and running. Not losing a full day to brewing keeps the wife happier.


----------



## Coodgee

I don't think I'd be able to stop myself finishing off the brew if I had 28 litres of sweet sweet wort ready to boil!!


----------



## fishingbrad

Interesting. so it would be possible, (on a school night) to mash one night, boil/ cube the next ?


----------



## stuartf

Only thing I can think of is possibly inadvertently making a sour? I'm sure I read somewhere that leaving the grains in cold water for several hours can lead to that but maybe I imagined it?


----------



## Killer Brew

fishingbrad said:


> Interesting. so it would be possible, (on a school night) to mash one night, boil/ cube the next ?


Absolutely!


----------



## Killer Brew

stuartf said:


> Only thing I can think of is possibly inadvertently making a sour? I'm sure I read somewhere that leaving the grains in cold water for several hours can lead to that but maybe I imagined it?


Not sure but to be clear im completing the mash then sparging before i cover the sweet wort for the night and firing up to boil the next morning.


----------



## stuartf

Oh ok, I read it as leaving the grains in cold the night before then firing up next morning to begin mash while you are sleeping. I'm sure someone has posted on this technique before something like time poor brewing or something.


----------



## Killer Brew

Yeah think i have read that. Also read a brewing mag article where the mash just ran the whole night!


----------



## Goodbeer

Hello all

Doing my first stepped mash tonight in the grainfather...Seems most think it probably isn't necessary with modern grains, but figured I will just coz I can.

Brewing a Hefeweizen 

20 mins @ 43
30 mins @ 62
30 mins @ 72

Mash out @ 78

I'm pretty certain this is a stupid question but I would be right in recirculating the wort right from the start of the stepping process would I not?

Thanks


----------



## nfragol

Yes, start recirculating the wort from the very beginning.
It's a major step so the temperature will remain constant throughout the grain bed.


----------



## Chridech

Goodbeer said:


> Hello all
> Doing my first stepped mash tonight in the grainfather...Seems most think it probably isn't necessary with modern grains, but figured I will just coz I can.
> Brewing a Hefeweizen
> 20 mins @ 43
> 30 mins @ 62
> 30 mins @ 72
> Mash out @ 78
> I'm pretty certain this is a stupid question but I would be right in recirculating the wort right from the start of the stepping process would I not?
> Thanks


Your mash schedule looks good to me. I studied all the hefe threads on this forum a few months ago and came up with pretty well exactly the same mash schedule. Ferulic acid rest, low sacc. rest and 72C to enhance body and mouthfeel. Some think 72C is too high and will denature enzymes? A Hefeweizen is my next planned brew so I would be interested to hear how this schedule works for you in the GF.


----------



## Goodbeer

Chridech it didn't go too well.

The process was easy enough, just took a bit of time.

Not sure why, still a fair novice, only my 3rd all grain. Previous 2 hit all my targets, all went to plan.

Was aiming for 1052 OG. Came out at 1040. Ended up with 2L extra wort than I was after, probably didn't help my cause...but wouldn't have thought would've made a difference of 12 points??

It was about 5 degrees whilst brewing. Had a couple of towels wrapped around gf as I brew outside.

Anyhow just had a taste. Granted only day 2, down to 1016, funnily enough tastes like light wheat beer!

Anyhow will post back once bottled


----------



## Killer Brew

Goodbeer said:


> Chridech it didn't go too well.
> The process was easy enough, just took a bit of time.
> Not sure why, still a fair novice, only my 3rd all grain. Previous 2 hit all my targets, all went to plan.
> Was aiming for 1052 OG. Came out at 1040. Ended up with 2L extra wort than I was after, probably didn't help my cause...but wouldn't have thought would've made a difference of 12 points??
> It was about 5 degrees whilst brewing. Had a couple of towels wrapped around gf as I brew outside.
> Anyhow just had a taste. Granted only day 2, down to 1016, funnily enough tastes like light wheat beer!
> Anyhow will post back once bottled


Without knowing your exact volumes it is hard to say but would expect a 2L dilution to have a 3 to 4 point effect on a GF. So you are right that this isn't the entire story. What efficiency were you targeting to hit your 1052? Grist with a high % of wheat is notorious for stuck sparges, did yours flow through ok? Was it flowing through ok during mash recirculation also?


----------



## Goodbeer

Have been working to 75%, and has been spot on, using beersmith.

Had 58% wheat. 

Sparge water flowed fine...towards the end slowed a bit, just gave the bed a bit of a poke with paddle and continued as normal.

Recirculation seemed fine. Didn't have any overflow at 42, so was obviously flowing freely. Plenty at 62 and 72, but switched it off for a few secs during both, and wort level dropped quite quickly, so no probs there either. 

I haven't used this brewshop for grain before...going to have to give it another go next brew.


----------



## Killer Brew

did they mill the grain for you or did you do it yourself?


----------



## Goodbeer

Got them pre milled


----------



## Chridech

Killer Brew said:


> did they mill the grain for you or did you do it yourself?


I think Killer Brew may be onto something. Easy sparge with 58% wheat and then lower than expected efficiency. My money is on too coarse a crush for the GF +/- something gone awry with your mash pH.


----------



## Chridech

Goodbeer said:


> Chridech it didn't go too well.
> 
> The process was easy enough, just took a bit of time.
> 
> Not sure why, still a fair novice, only my 3rd all grain. Previous 2 hit all my targets, all went to plan.
> 
> Was aiming for 1052 OG. Came out at 1040. Ended up with 2L extra wort than I was after, probably didn't help my cause...but wouldn't have thought would've made a difference of 12 points??
> 
> It was about 5 degrees whilst brewing. Had a couple of towels wrapped around gf as I brew outside.
> 
> Anyhow just had a taste. Granted only day 2, down to 1016, funnily enough tastes like light wheat beer!
> 
> Anyhow will post back once bottled


Provided you can get the hefe down to 1005 you will end up with around 4.6% beer, in the ballpark for most commercial hefes. Bottle it with Dex. to 3 atmospheres and get yourself another 0.5%. 
Nothing wrong with that. What temp are you fermenting at?


----------



## Goodbeer

Yeah I was thinking possibly grain too...didn't wanna just point the blame elsewhere, but I guess that's the most likely answer.

Again will do the same brew next batch but will get my grain from elsewhere and see if there's a difference.

Fermenting @21. Normally do wheats 19-20, but trying a bit higher for something different, maybe a touch more banana.

Still bubbling quite regularly, might raise a touch tonight


----------



## Killer Brew

Goodbeer said:


> Yeah I was thinking possibly grain too...didn't wanna just point the blame elsewhere, but I guess that's the most likely answer.
> 
> Again will do the same brew next batch but will get my grain from elsewhere and see if there's a difference.
> 
> Fermenting @21. Normally do wheats 19-20, but trying a bit higher for something different, maybe a touch more banana.
> 
> Still bubbling quite regularly, might raise a touch tonight


Sounds like a plan. If you are unsure take a picture of your milled grain and upload here for others opinions on the crush.


----------



## Reedy

Brewing a Hefeweizen this morning & knocked the pump filter off while whirlpooling. I've since transferred to a cube (no chill) and whilst most of the hop matter/trub appeared to be left behind, I know quite a bit will have ended up in the cube.

My question is how do I limit the amount of it that gets transferred to the FV?

Was considering using a piece of hopsock held over the opening of the cube with a rubber band/cable tie to try & keep as much out as possible.

Normally I wouldn't be too concerned as it would drop out during cold crash after fermentation, but I wasn't intending on CC'ing the Hefe as I want it cloudy.

Any thoughts?


----------



## Chridech

Reedy said:


> Brewing a Hefeweizen this morning & knocked the pump filter off while whirlpooling. I've since transferred to a cube (no chill) and whilst most of the hop matter/trub appeared to be left behind, I know quite a bit will have ended up in the cube.
> My question is how do I limit the amount of it that gets transferred to the FV?
> Was considering using a piece of hopsock held over the opening of the cube with a rubber band/cable tie to try & keep as much out as possible.
> Normally I wouldn't be too concerned as it would drop out during cold crash after fermentation, but I wasn't intending on CC'ing the Hefe as I want it cloudy.
> Any thoughts?


Presumably there won't be much hop matter if it's a Hefe. A fair bit of cold break makes it through the pump filter anyway as it precipitates out in the chiller on the way to the FV. Cold break and hop matter will settle at the bottom of the FV during fermentation. Cloudiness in a Hefe is due to low flocculation of yeast; CC'ing a Hefe might make it a little clearer but will still be to style. If you are worried I think a CC would be fine, based on my experience of one CCed Hefe! By the sound of it you have no-chilled into a cube? If so you could leave the trub behind if you decant into a separate FV at pitching time.


----------



## fishingbrad

Success ! 2nd attempt on Saturday for double batch. 8.5kg grain. ended up with 46lts @ 1.045. Big shout out to Coldspace for leading the way :beerbang:
​
Now to improve my process to make brew day shorter.


----------



## kaiserben

Goodbeer said:


> Have been working to 75%, and has been spot on, using beersmith.
> 
> Had 58% wheat.


Grain bills with a lot of wheat usually take a hit to efficiency. For my recipes with >50% wheat I'll drop my efficiency down (currently still fiddling with it, but about 67% will be where I set it for my next weizen).


----------



## Coldspace

fishingbrad said:


> Success ! 2nd attempt on Saturday for double batch. 8.5kg grain. ended up with 46lts @ 1.045. Big shout out to Coldspace for leading the way :beerbang:
> ​
> Now to improve my process to make brew day shorter.[/quote
> 
> ]Also, buy one of those over the side immersion heaters from ebay for about $75. I use this to assist the Gf to come upto the boil after sparging a lot faster. Especially when it's at the fullish level for double batching. Once it's cranking, the gf element is plenty . If you have some more saved runnings that you've captured after removal of malt pipe, then I plug the immersion heater in as well when topping up, so if the boil drops off it only takes a minute to crank again. Then turn it off. You may need to run immersion heater from another circuit thou so you don't trip out a circuit breaker. I find this cuts approx 40 to 50 mins per brew because of much faster ramps.
> 
> Also good for quick pre heat to 66 or what ever on start up.
> 
> Cheers


----------



## fishingbrad

Thanks Coldspace. I have a separate urn/ boiler (used for making other drinks h34r that I used to boil the runnings,​ so the GF only had 28lts, so I had 2 boiling vessels boiling together. (I'm a sparky so overload is a problem) as the GF evaporated off, I topped up from the urn until boil had complete. Then emptied the remaining from urn to the GF. This brought the level right up to the top and not a drop more. first time fluke, bet this wont happen again. let it sit for hop stand/ hot break. Really happy getting 2 brews in 1 session.

Now, where to get those 15lt cubes without buying FWK.

Cheers.


----------



## Motmo

Hi All,
First time poster here, mainly because of some kind of technical problem when i signed up. But any way couple of things i have learnt that i haven't read so far in the topic.

My pump stalls sometimes but to get it going again just switch the pump off give it a light tap (impeller end) switch back on. Repeat if necessary. You will need to take the cover off, mines permanently off. But it will save you having to drain the lot to pull apart the impeller housing to inspect possible blockages etc.

Better efficiency, I've found, is to do a larger mash in water volume with smaller sparge. I believe due to the continual re-circulation most off the sugar's are extracted pre-sparge and from experience the SG is very low half way through sparge. Don't shoot me but works for me. Plus i'm a high gravity kind of kid.

Instead of using the Hop spider during the boil i use it to filter the wort during the five to ten minutes while sanitizing the chiller just before end of boil. I.e outlet of chiller fed into hop spider let liquid pass through hop gunk and trub left in mesh. I stop once or twice to empty gunk. I don't bother with the bottom filter anymore and the only floaties that get through is final hop addition which is easily cleared up when transferring for 2nd stage FV. 

After sanitizing your chiller chuck in final hop addition turn off pump and run cold water through chiller this brings the copper coil temperature down dramatically quicker than if you were trying to transfer straight away with hot coils.

As i said i don't bother with bottom filter anymore and the ball and spring from the check valve are long gone. I realize my pump issues are probably due to extra solids getting through but once that filter clogs up, the flow through the chiller is painful. If you have to scrape it, your only pushing it through to the FV anyway. I find it's a much quicker transfer to cold side, since the filter is removed, retains more hop flavour/ aroma rather than waiting for it to all trickle through a blocked filter at higher temperatures. 

Any way my 2 cents,
Happy brewing.


----------



## Killer Brew

Motmo said:


> Hi All,
> First time poster here, mainly because of some kind of technical problem when i signed up. But any way couple of things i have learnt that i haven't read so far in the topic.
> 
> My pump stalls sometimes but to get it going again just switch the pump off give it a light tap (impeller end) switch back on. Repeat if necessary. You will need to take the cover off, mines permanently off. But it will save you having to drain the lot to pull apart the impeller housing to inspect possible blockages etc.
> 
> Better efficiency, I've found, is to do a larger mash in water volume with smaller sparge. I believe due to the continual re-circulation most off the sugar's are extracted pre-sparge and from experience the SG is very low half way through sparge. Don't shoot me but works for me. Plus i'm a high gravity kind of kid.
> 
> Instead of using the Hop spider during the boil i use it to filter the wort during the five to ten minutes while sanitizing the chiller just before end of boil. I.e outlet of chiller fed into hop spider let liquid pass through hop gunk and trub left in mesh. I stop once or twice to empty gunk. I don't bother with the bottom filter anymore and the only floaties that get through is final hop addition which is easily cleared up when transferring for 2nd stage FV.
> 
> After sanitizing your chiller chuck in final hop addition turn off pump and run cold water through chiller this brings the copper coil temperature down dramatically quicker than if you were trying to transfer straight away with hot coils.
> 
> As i said i don't bother with bottom filter anymore and the ball and spring from the check valve are long gone. I realize my pump issues are probably due to extra solids getting through but once that filter clogs up, the flow through the chiller is painful. If you have to scrape it, your only pushing it through to the FV anyway. I find it's a much quicker transfer to cold side, since the filter is removed, retains more hop flavour/ aroma rather than waiting for it to all trickle through a blocked filter at higher temperatures.
> 
> Any way my 2 cents,
> Happy brewing.


Solid first post! I had wondered about mashing with more water and how it would go. Mine last night was 16L mash with a 16L sparge which seems excessive.


----------



## N3MIS15

What sort of effeciency are you guys getting with 9kg of grain? I calculate at around 72% eff with 9kg and seem to get my numbers. Im curious on what others are getting as my crush might not be perfect,
EDIT: just checked last batch and it was actually 70% not 72%


----------



## Motmo

Killer Brew said:


> Solid first post! I had wondered about mashing with more water and how it would go. Mine last night was 16L mash with a 16L sparge which seems excessive.


I know some of the sparge vols seem out there to say the least, with hindsight. I couldn't get any where near calculated gravities so just started doing some trial and error and found i wasn't losing as much to grain absorbtion and decided to do about 23 litres for mash in and about 6 litres sparge for a 6.5kg grain bill and still end up with around 26L pre boil and have numbers i'm happy with. Still Haven't mastered Beer Smith though work in progress.
What was your grain weight? Did you hit your numbers?


----------



## Killer Brew

Grain weight of 4.65kg and ended up with 26L @ 1045 preboil. Added a couple of litres of water and ended fairly much on target at 1043 for 28L preboil (target was 1042).


----------



## Killer Brew

N3MI said:


> What sort of effeciency are you guys getting with 9kg of grain? I calculate at around 72% eff with 9kg and seem to get my numbers. Im curious on what others are getting as my crush might not be perfect,
> EDIT: just checked last batch and it was actually 70% not 72%


In my experience that is good efficiency with a large grain bill. I havent cracked 70% with high gravity on the GF which i have put down to small sparge. A few pages back somebody was having success with additional sparging into a second vessel and then adding back in as evaporation in both made space. I intend to give that a try next time around.


----------



## panzerd18

welly2 said:


> This sounds interesting!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 13267950_10153729401622879_8266060801187308993_n.jpg


Looks like I will wait until October!


----------



## HBHB

panzerd18 said:


> Looks like I will wait until October!


No need. Plan is that new controller priced units once they're released will be the same price as current unit plus upgrade. The upgrade units will be reasonably priced, based on expected rrp.

If you get one now, you'll always have a "plan B" controller in the event of a mishap.


----------



## Goodbeer

Hello all

Bottled up my failed hefe, as I've now called it, on Thursday. 

Ended up 1010, was hoping for a bit less, but gave me 4%, not the end of the world. 

Tasted odd, certainly not a hefe, but might be ok with conditioning.

In the process of attempt 2, have changed the recipe a bit, used a different brewshop, but same mash steps...got a good feeling about this one.

Will post results...nothing real interesting, just said I'd post back on bottling and next brew. 

Go beer


----------



## carniebrew

Goodbeer said:


> Hello all
> Bottled up my failed hefe, as I've now called it, on Thursday.
> Ended up 1010, was hoping for a bit less, but gave me 4%, not the end of the world.
> Tasted odd, certainly not a hefe, but might be ok with conditioning.
> In the process of attempt 2, have changed the recipe a bit, used a different brewshop, but same mash steps...got a good feeling about this one.
> Will post results...nothing real interesting, just said I'd post back on bottling and next brew.
> Go beer


Don't get too stressed about step mashing your hef's. I've been making this style regularly since my first ever home brew, it's the beer that got me in to craft in the first place. I've found step mashing to be unnecessary to make a great hefe, it's all about under pitching the yeast a little (I suggest around 80% of what you'd normally pitch on an ale), and fermenting at 17 degrees. And only ever with liquid yeast, preferably Wyeast 3068.


----------



## Goodbeer

carniebrew said:


> Don't get too stressed about step mashing your hef's. I've been making this style regularly since my first ever home brew, it's the beer that got me in to craft in the first place. I've found step mashing to be unnecessary to make a great hefe, it's all about under pitching the yeast a little (I suggest around 80% of what you'd normally pitch on an ale), and fermenting at 17 degrees. And only ever with liquid yeast, preferably Wyeast 3068.


Yes have read a bit about the benefits, or lack thereof in terms of step mashing...just thought I'd give it a go coz I could.

Brew went much better than last one. Had to brew inside coz of the rain, place f#*.%ing stinks, ha!

Went the other way though. Didn't top up after sparse, ended up with 18L @ 1060...pretty sure the grain from different brewshop is the answer. 

Think between this one and last should hit everything spot on for next one.

Cheers


----------



## Chridech

Goodbeer said:


> Yes have read a bit about the benefits, or lack thereof in terms of step mashing...just thought I'd give it a go coz I could.
> Brew went much better than last one. Had to brew inside coz of the rain, place f#*.%ing stinks, ha!
> Went the other way though. Didn't top up after sparse, ended up with 18L @ 1060...pretty sure the grain from different brewshop is the answer.
> Think between this one and last should hit everything spot on for next one.
> Cheers


Did you water it down to achieve your target OG? I can never bring myself to do it.


----------



## Goodbeer

I probably should've...but after the fairly weak batch I just made thought I'd let it ride...

With starter ended up with a touch over 19L, and with that amount and OG, my starter ended up a touch under my aimed pitching rate, so being a hefe pretty spot on.

Is goin crazy in fv


----------



## Chridech

Goodbeer said:


> Is going crazy in the fv


Which yeast? 3068?


----------



## Goodbeer

I gave WLP380 a go, was all I could get at the time. 

Funny thing is the starter was real slow. Wasn't real active for about 7hrs or so. Was a touch concerned.

But kicked off once the starter was pitched in about 2hrs!


----------



## carniebrew

Goodbeer said:


> I gave WLP380 a go, was all I could get at the time.
> 
> Funny thing is the starter was real slow. Wasn't real active for about 7hrs or so. Was a touch concerned.
> 
> But kicked off once the starter was pitched in about 2hrs!


380 is more clove & phenolic driven, so you should end up with a more tart/spicy hefe with that strain. A little more like a wit then a hefeweizen. WLP300 is more like Wyeast 3068, tending more towards the banana profile I enjoy in classics like Weihenstephener's hefe.
http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp380-hefeweizen-iv-ale-yeast
http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp300-hefeweizen-ale-yeast


----------



## Goodbeer

I'm more about the banana myself too, was all LHBS had

Was a last minute decision, was planning on reusing the yeast from last batch, but there were some funny flavours when bottling, so just turfed the yeast cake and started new


----------



## Chridech

Goodbeer said:


> I'm more about the banana myself too, was all LHBS had
> Was a last minute decision, was planning on reusing the yeast from last batch, but there were some funny flavours when bottling, so just turfed the yeast cake and started new


Sounds like you will end up with a good hefe. I like the banana in Weihenstephener but a more phenolic clove tasting beer like Erdinger is good too. I have a pack of Wyeast 3068 slowly dying in my fridge at the moment. Planning to put down my first Weizenbock in a few weeks time. Too many beers to try, not enough to time to brew.


----------



## carniebrew

Chridech said:


> Sounds like you will end up with a good hefe. I like the banana in Weihenstephener but a more phenolic clove tasting beer like Erdinger is good too. I have a pack of Wyeast 3068 slowly dying in my fridge at the moment. Planning to put down my first Weizenbock in a few weeks time. Too many beers to try, not enough to time to brew.


I did a Weizenbock in my Grainfather for the Merri Mashers' case swap last year that was really well received. WLP300, 8.1% abv, 21 IBU, 33 EBC. Happy to share the recipe if anyone's interested...


----------



## Chridech

carniebrew said:


> I did a Weizenbock in my Grainfather for the Merri Mashers' case swap last year that was really well received. WLP300, 8.1% abv, 21 IBU, 33 EBC. Happy to share the recipe if anyone's interested...


Now that you mention it Wy 3068 banana's fermented at a highish temp might not be true to style for a Weizenbock? I tried the Weihenstephener Korbinian a few months ago, and while it gave me a headache the next day, I was inspired to brew one. I don't have ready access to WhiteLabs yeast so may try the Wy 3068 anyway. Patched together my recipe from trolling the Weizenbock threads on this forum. Keen to see you recipe Carniebrew if you want to PM me or point me in the direction to which its already posted. Wouldn't want to go OT!


----------



## Goodbeer




----------



## Goodbeer

380 has well and truly kicked off!


----------



## Chridech

Goodbeer said:


> ImageUploadedByAussie Home Brewer1468754144.719584.jpg


Just as well you didn't top up the fermentor - 18L and it's about to blow its load. Better get yourself a blow-off tube there Goodbeer, otherwise you'll be scrubbing yeasties off the inside of your fridge for weeks!


----------



## Goodbeer

Got nothing on hand for a blow off...is like a geyser in there! Will leave it tonight and grab something after work tomorrow


----------



## carniebrew

Chridech said:


> Now that you mention it Wy 3068 banana's fermented at a highish temp might not be true to style for a Weizenbock? I tried the Weihenstephener Korbinian a few months ago, and while it gave me a headache the next day, I was inspired to brew one. I don't have ready access to WhiteLabs yeast so may try the Wy 3068 anyway. Patched together my recipe from trolling the Weizenbock threads on this forum. Keen to see you recipe Carniebrew if you want to PM me or point me in the direction to which its already posted. Wouldn't want to go OT!


It's up on Beersmith cloud: http://beersmithrecipes.com/viewrecipe/1203176/frau-farbissina-weizenbock


----------



## A.B.

1st brew with my new toy, going good so far now mashing. Just a pale ale with a few hop additions when boiling to get me used to the gear, but so far so good.


----------



## doctr-dan

This may be a dumb question, but I've noticed a lot of people saying the chiller works well dropping the to pretty quick but by the numbers they are quoting it's still not dropping to pitching temp.
So what are they doing to get down to pitching temp.


----------



## meathead

I believe they pre chill the water via an ice bath.
It will be in here somewhere
I double batch and no chill now


----------



## A.B.

Mine dropped temp from boil to 22deg in about 5-7 mins, about 18L of waste water into a bucket... mind you my cold water is from a tank at 10deg....


----------



## Chridech

doctr-dan said:


> This may be a dumb question, but I've noticed a lot of people saying the chiller works well dropping the to pretty quick but by the numbers they are quoting it's still not dropping to pitching temp.
> So what are they doing to get down to pitching temp.


I often pre-chill tap water with an immersion coil in a bucket of ice-water and a handful of pool salt. Started doing this when ground water temp was 27C over summer. The lowest I have chilled the wort is 23C. The trickiest part is adjust the flow rate on the pump and on the water-tap to maximise chilling but not waste too much water. If you get it wrong for even a minute or two you can dump a few litres of 40+C wort into the FV. It's pretty hard to recover from there. Still need to cool the wort for a few a hours in the fermenting fridge before pitching. I think it's only worth it when ground water temp is high over summer.


----------



## carniebrew

I just let the fermenter sit in the fridge until it's at the temp I'm happy to pitch at. You can be pretty liberal with your pitching temps, e.g. if you're planning to ferment at 18C, don't worry about pitching the yeast when it's at 22 or 23 degrees. The yeast actually perform better in the warmer pitch temps (the little scamps like warmth)...and your wort temp will be down to 18C well and truly by the time the yeast start producing any flavour compounds.


----------



## Coldspace

After 6 brews with the chiller, I've shelved it in the shed. Over 40 brews later most double batch, I no chill, adjust bittering additions down by 20%, all others stay the same, throw my cubes into swimming my pool 5 mins after filling. Beers are as good or better, a lot less fluffing around and a whole lot less water wastage.

I want a grain brother to up production , but can't buy another malt pipe. So not worth it when I double batch. Come on grainfather,imake, when we can buy a malt pipe in Australia like than can in the USA ,then I'll get a grain brother to up production, can't justify another 1100 grainfather for a wort chiller and glass lid I won't use. Maybe 700 for a grain brother and malt pipe. 

Cheers


----------



## Chridech

Coldspace said:


> After 6 brews with the chiller, I've shelved it in the shed. Over 40 brews later most double batch, I no chill, adjust bittering additions down by 20%, all others stay the same, throw my cubes into swimming my pool 5 mins after filling. Beers are as good or better, a lot less fluffing around and a whole lot less water wastage.


That does it. Have to troll back through the thread to revise Coldspace's recommendations for double batching. HAve less time to brew but need to brew more each time.


----------



## meathead

Here is Coldspaces original post

I double batch always with Grainfather , same time but get 2 cubes.
I start with 23 ltrs, at strike temp then leave on mash low heat setting while stirring in,then slowly mash in my 8.5 to 9 kgs max of grains, slow and steady stir and stab with paddle up and down like mixing up concrete.
Usually once I've stirred in about 7 kgs of grain, I swing the top pipe over the top of the grain bed, start pump, and pump approx 2 -3 ltrs of water ontop.
This then makes it much easier to mash the final 2 kgs in.
I usually then mash for 75 mins and do 20 min mash out at 78. This helps with sparging.
Then, I just keep sparging till I see it dripped upto the 30 ltr mark.
I then place the malt pipe into an old esky and sparge it with another 6 ltrs of water and just let the last goodness run out into esky while I boil. You can take top plate of, give the grain a stir and sparge with final water, I find I get the last sugars totally out. Then Usually about 7 to 8 ltrs trickles out into esky which works out perfect for top ups and keeps efficiency up. Sit the malt pipe ontop of a Tupperware container etc to keep it off the floor of esky or bucket to catch second sparge runnings.
I then use this final runnings to top up the boil while doing my additions,
Just top up slowly so the boil is not killed, or I have an immersion heater from my previous brewing days which is use to ramp up the temps in between strike and boils to save time.
When my boil is done, I top right to top , about 10mm from lip with runnings or boiled water .
I then wait for the temp to drop to about 90-92 degrees, then pump straight into 2 x 15 ltr cubes that I saved from fresh wort kits, or you can buy 15 ltr containers.
The full double batch Grainfather fills 2 of these perfectly to the top.
Seal, and leave, I also add my hop additions I would normally use at sub 15 mark into little hop socks straight into the cubes.
What I have now is an over gravity for style 15 ltr cube, actually more like 16 lts.
When time to ferment, I dump into fermenter and top up to 21 ltrs.
I usually get OG of 1.046 to 1.048 which is plenty for me, and I get 2 x 19 ltr kegs from one cook up.
Last sat, while doing yard work etc, I got 2 double batches , so 4 cubes of a nice pilsener and pale ale , and allowing for my immersion heater to save time and everything took about 7 hrs.start to cleaned and packed up. Also managed to mow yard and take kids to shops in between mash times to keep SWMBO happy. Lol
Espescially using no chill, saves heaps of water and about 30 mins per Cook up. It's a no brainer.
Unless doing a high grav brew, double batch all the way.
I've done about 25-30 double batches now, and works a treat.
Hope this helps.


----------



## Chridech

Coldspace said:


> I double batch always with Grainfather , same time but get 2 cubes.
> I start with 23 ltrs, at strike temp then leave on mash low heat setting while stirring in,then slowly mash in my 8.5 to 9 kgs max of grains, slow and steady stir and stab with paddle up and down like mixing up concrete.
> Usually once I've stirred in about 7 kgs of grain, I swing the top pipe over the top of the grain bed, start pump, and pump approx 2 -3 ltrs of water ontop.
> This then makes it much easier to mash the final 2 kgs in.
> I usually then mash for 75 mins and do 20 min mash out at 78. This helps with sparging.
> Then, I just keep sparging till I see it dripped upto the 30 ltr mark.
> I then place the malt pipe into an old esky and sparge it with another 6 ltrs of water and just let the last goodness run out into esky while I boil. You can take top plate of, give the grain a stir and sparge with final water, I find I get the last sugars totally out. Then Usually about 7 to 8 ltrs trickles out into esky which works out perfect for top ups and keeps efficiency up. Sit the malt pipe ontop of a Tupperware container etc to keep it off the floor of esky or bucket to catch second sparge runnings.
> I then use this final runnings to top up the boil while doing my additions,
> Just top up slowly so the boil is not killed, or I have an immersion heater from my previous brewing days which is use to ramp up the temps in between strike and boils to save time.
> When my boil is done, I top right to top , about 10mm from lip with runnings or boiled water .
> I then wait for the temp to drop to about 90-92 degrees, then pump straight into 2 x 15 ltr cubes that I saved from fresh wort kits, or you can buy 15 ltr containers.
> The full double batch Grainfather fills 2 of these perfectly to the top.
> Seal, and leave, I also add my hop additions I would normally use at sub 15 mark into little hop socks straight into the cubes.
> What I have now is an over gravity for style 15 ltr cube, actually more like 16 lts.
> When time to ferment, I dump into fermenter and top up to 21 ltrs.
> I usually get OG of 1.046 to 1.048 which is plenty for me, and I get 2 x 19 ltr kegs from one cook up.
> Last sat, while doing yard work etc, I got 2 double batches , so 4 cubes of a nice pilsener and pale ale , and allowing for my immersion heater to save time and everything took about 7 hrs.start to cleaned and packed up. Also managed to mow yard and take kids to shops in between mash times to keep SWMBO happy. Lol
> Espescially using no chill, saves heaps of water and about 30 mins per Cook up. It's a no brainer.
> Unless doing a high grav brew, double batch all the way.
> I've done about 25-30 double batches now, and works a treat.
> Hope this helps.


Coldspace, you don't happen to have developed an Equipment Profile (eg. Beersmith) that incorporates this technique do you? Otherwise I'll have a go using the volumes you have mentioned. Approx. what sort of efficiency does this technique give you? (again, could be derived from the figures you have quoted). You might be able to tell I'm not a seat of the pants type brewer.


----------



## Coldspace

Chridech said:


> Coldspace, you don't happen to have developed an Equipment Profile (eg. Beersmith) that incorporates this technique do you? Otherwise I'll have a go using the volumes you have mentioned. Approx. what sort of efficiency does this technique give you? (again, could be derived from the figures you have quoted). You might be able to tell I'm not a seat of the pants type brewer.


Hey mate, no I've not done anything in beersmith. I only double batch receipes that use 4 to 4.5 kg grain max. Done smurtos golden ale, landlord, little creatures bright and pale ales , stout, 150 lashes plus several other receipes that use 4 to 4.5 kg grain. Also some doubles of a mid strength beer using about 6.5 kg grain which worked awesome. Bigger receipes can only be single batched as 9 kgs Of grain is absolute max. 8.5 to 8.8 is better.
Last weekend I did a double of a 150 lashes type beer. 2 x 4.4 kg grains, 8.8 all up. I tend to mill on the slightly courser crush than say what BIAB guys would do. This help with sparging. I mashed for 75 mins, sparged to it was up around 30 ltrs, then sparged another 6 ltrs with malt pipe in esky. While boil was going I kept 4 ltrs to top the gf up. I also on the recommendation of another poster boiled the other 4 ltrs I collected out of esky on my stove top. When my final additions were done at wirlpool stage I used the pot I boiled on the stove to top the gf up. I also needed approx 1 ltr of boiled water to top it to the top so I can fill my 2 x15 ltr cubes perfectly to the brim with no air space.

I achieved a 2x 15 ltr ( more like 16 ltrs after cube expansion)cube gravity of 1062 tested with my refrac and also hydro. 
I have a pool, I drop these into the pool step to cool them abit quicker. Another tip I've learned from this site
I only started doing this last 6 or so brews, I do this while clean up, and after 1 hr they have cooled right down. I think the beer is a little smoother but I was always happy with prior cube elnatural cool downs. 

Last night after work, I pitched these cubes into my 2 fermenters, added water upto 22 ltr mark, and resulted in a gravity of 1045. Plenty for me. This will give me 2 full cornies plus a few bottles to put away.

Sometimes I will just top upto 20 ltrs each for 2 cornies, around 1046 to 1048 gravity.

I've done this many times over past 12 months, always hit my numbers . It's fairly fool proof. I've never bothered calculating actual percentages, but comparing my single batches to doubles for same receipe I possibly suffer 5% drop but for the time saved it's worth it.

Some mates and family members brew, but only k&k or wort kits, but prefer my beers every time . I've done a couple of cubes up for my brother and close mate. They brewed them up in their fridges, and the beer comes up trumps. This is why I want to get another gf going at some stage, brew 2 x double batches simultaneously , 2 cubes for me and 2 cubes for family members in same time.
This way we can all keep our costs down, and help me cover some of my grain/hop costs. Costs me about 15 bucks per cube to cook up depending on hops. As I buy all mine in bulk now.
Better than 40 to 50 bucks per fresh wort kit, and tastier and better beers.

Cheers


----------



## Chridech

Thanks Coldspace, you really have your process worked out well. I have a couple of tried and true recipes I can double-up but will start with Dr Smurto's as I've wanted to brew this but have never got around to it.


----------



## carniebrew

Coldspace said:


> After 6 brews with the chiller, I've shelved it in the shed. Over 40 brews later most double batch, I no chill, adjust bittering additions down by 20%, all others stay the same, throw my cubes into swimming my pool 5 mins after filling. Beers are as good or better, a lot less fluffing around and a whole lot less water wastage.
> 
> I want a grain brother to up production , but can't buy another malt pipe. So not worth it when I double batch. Come on grainfather,imake, when we can buy a malt pipe in Australia like than can in the USA ,then I'll get a grain brother to up production, can't justify another 1100 grainfather for a wort chiller and glass lid I won't use. Maybe 700 for a grain brother and malt pipe.
> 
> Cheers


You could buy a 2nd complete grainfather then sell the counter flow chiller. They're top notch chillers and you'd easily get over $200 for it I reckon.


----------



## Coldspace

carniebrew said:


> You could buy a 2nd complete grainfather then sell the counter flow chiller. They're top notch chillers and you'd easily get over $200 for it I reckon.


Good idea,

I'll put it up in the buy and sell.

Cheers


----------



## Mattrox

Just doing my 1st brew day with the Grainfather.

I got 23L @ 1.067 from 4.25kg of grain pre-boil. The online efficiency calculator tells me this is impossible. I bought the grain and had it crushed at the shop. I didn't weigh out the grain before I put it in. 

I'm pretty sure that the hydrometer is not that far wrong.

I'm impressed with the unit though.


----------



## Reedy

Hey Mattrox,

I just finished brewing the Little Fellas Pale Ale from the Recipe DB and had a pre-boil SG of 1.046 from 5.7kg of grain (was supposed to be 1.048 but I over-sparged by about half a litre).

I usually aim for a pre-boil volume of around 27L after sparging (at which point I take a reading with a refractometer), this usually gets me around 23L post boil.

Based on the GF mash calculator (and assuming a 60min boil), your mash volume should have been 14.98L & sparge 16.42L, in order to achieve 23L post-boil.


----------



## Mattrox

Reedy said:


> Hey Mattrox,
> 
> I just finished brewing the Little Fellas Pale Ale from the Recipe DB and had a pre-boil SG of 1.046 from 5.7kg of grain (was supposed to be 1.048 but I over-sparged by about half a litre).
> 
> I usually aim for a pre-boil volume of around 27L after sparging (at which point I take a reading with a refractometer), this usually gets me around 23L post boil.
> 
> Based on the GF mash calculator (and assuming a 60min boil), your mash volume should have been 14.98L & sparge 16.42L, in order to achieve 23L post-boil.


I was aiming for 20L post boil.

I mashed 14.8L (roughly) and after sparge I had about 23ish L.


----------



## Mattrox

I got 20L in the FV @ 1.048 OG. Happy with that.


----------



## Chridech

Mattrox said:


> Just doing my 1st brew day with the Grainfather.
> 
> I got 23L @ 1.067 from 4.25kg of grain pre-boil. The online efficiency calculator tells me this is impossible. I bought the grain and had it crushed at the shop. I didn't weigh out the grain before I put it in.
> 
> I'm pretty sure that the hydrometer is not that far wrong.
> 
> I'm impressed with the unit though.


Mattrox I see you ended up with 20L in the FV at 1048 which still sounds like fair Brewhouse efficiency. When did you take the reading of 1067 pre-boil? Could this be a pre-sparge reading? It also pays to thoroughly stir the wort post sparge before taking a pre-Boil gravity reading. I've had wild results pre-boil if didn't mix thoroughly prior to taking a measurement.


----------



## Mattrox

Chridech said:


> Mattrox I see you ended up with 20L in the FV at 1048 which still sounds like fair Brewhouse efficiency. When did you take the reading of 1067 pre-boil? Could this be a pre-sparge reading? It also pays to thoroughly stir the wort post sparge before taking a pre-Boil gravity reading. I've had wild results pre-boil if didn't mix thoroughly prior to taking a measurement.


This was after sparge. But you are probably right that the sparge water probably hadn't mixed properly.


----------



## WhiteLomu

What temperature did you take the reading at? It should be at room temps. Mashing temps can throw the readings way out.


----------



## Mattrox

WhiteLomu said:


> What temperature did you take the reading at? It should be at room temps. Mashing temps can throw the readings way out.


I took the sample and set it aside to sit. Newly collected it was 1.064 and at room temp it finally settled at 1.068.


----------



## Exile

Brewing a Brewdog No.9 Hype reciepe atm using Bairds Maris Otter.

The Grain Bill Weight is 4.6Kg
The Preboil Volume is 28L
The Preboil SG is 1.046

Now according to the Grainfather Calculator, my efficiency is 97%

No my Question is.... Is this Grainfather Calculator right? :blink:


Recipe Attached







Cheers


----------



## Kiwifirst

Having a bit of a problem on the last two brews on the gf with grain bills around 4.2kg 

As you can see, there is a lot of frothing. I notice that the top filter plate does not go down far enough to sit on the grain, so there is a gap. I assume this isn't the problem. I can see a lot of oxygen in the maltpipe and someone on the fb page mentioned that they thought the connection of the pipe when screwed in was probably allowing air in. I don't think it is from there though. I am wondering if it is because the crush is too fine and the wort is struggling to drop through quick enough, leaving the pump to be adding air and wort from the base. If I turn the pump off for a few minutes and turn back on, the wort comes through solid, but then after a short time, I start to see oxygen in the pipe and frothing all over again. 

Wondering if anyone else has had the same problem. Maybe I need to open the mill. Originally I felt the Gladfield malts were a little plumper and so crushed a little bit finer than most other grains, but this brew was mainly (3kg) of Maris Otter.


----------



## Killer Brew

Hmmm, haven't seen that one before. Can you hear it sucking air? Is it spluttering out of the recirc tube? Was your mash water addition bubble bath?


----------



## Kiwifirst

Can't really hear it sounding different, but I can certainly see air in there. Soap??? I wonder?? I guess it is possible that it could be the cleaner, that wasn't rinsed enough? But I think it's just froth from air bubbles


----------



## Kiwifirst

Oh and I recently took out the ball valve. So I think either drawing in air there or just a to fine crush, that didn't affect my mash on 5+kg brews. But does on the 4kg ones.


----------



## Killer Brew

Would have thought too fine a crush would just result in wort running down the overflow. Won't be the removal of the ball & spring, most of us ripped that out early on with no impact. Perhaps use the lever to slow the recirc a little and see if this prevents the frothing?


----------



## Kiwifirst

Killer Brew said:


> Would have thought too fine a crush would just result in wort running down the overflow. Won't be the removal of the ball & spring, most of us ripped that out early on with no impact. Perhaps use the lever to slow the recirc a little and see if this prevents the frothing?


That makes sense. In fact, I think you have me realizing the issue. 

When the wort was dropping down the overflow it was going fine, when I came back 30 mins later, the top plate had dropped down to the grain bed, which was lower than the lowest setting on the adjustable arm, so there was a small gap (say 8mm) between the bottom of the recirc widget and the hole in the plate (where widget is supposed to sit).
So that means the wort is recirculating back down directly down the gap on to the top of the grain bed. Which means that I was literally sparging and not re-circulating. Which is why it is taking to long to get to the base and thus, the pump is sucking air. 

So if the grain bed is lower than the adjustable arm (4.2kg ) the short arm kit should work better right?


----------



## Killer Brew

I quite often have the issue where I can't get the overflow completely down but still works ok. I think you are right and this confirms the issue as too fine a crush. You are effectively getting a stuck sparge and starving the pump which in return is sucking air. Turn down the recirc flow right down and see is this eliminates the frothing and then slowly increase until you get the max flow without air. You may take a bit of a hit on efficiency but wouldn't be major I expect.


----------



## Mattrox

Just following up from my 1st brew.

I brewed Dr. Smurto's Golden Ale. Mashed for 60 mins @ 66 Degrees.

I ended up with 20L 1.048 in the VF and pitched (rehydrated) BRY-97 at 18 degrees. I have a gravity of 1.007 today.

I'm confident that I got the mash temperature correct. Pretty high attenuation. Not that I'm complaining.


----------



## fishingbrad

Good one Mattrox. The Dr's GA is perfect for doing double batches in the GF.


----------



## A.B.

How are you guys at hitting your target gravity's? I've been using brewersfriend.com to adjust recipes, plugging in a 70% efficiency, I find I'm falling short of hitting pre-boil gravity. Using a 1.2mm crush with one of those fleabay -$100 mills.


----------



## Kiwifirst

A.B. said:


> How are you guys at hitting your target gravity's? I've been using brewersfriend.com to adjust recipes, plugging in a 70% efficiency, I find I'm falling short of hitting pre-boil gravity. Using a 1.2mm crush with one of those fleabay -$100 mills.


I have changed mine to 80% as that is what I have been achieving constantly. But I am going to back off my crush slightly due to a couple of stuck sparges with less than 5kg grain bills.


----------



## Coodgee

How much wort do you leave behind in the gf at the end of the day? This will have a big effect on brew house efficiency


----------



## doctr-dan

Woohoo picked up a gf and gf urn etc about a month ago second hand for a pretty good price .
The guy also gave me a AG kit from cheeky peek, American pale ale 
The only thing I didn't pick up was the box of i know what I am doing 
This is the brew sheet 




There's a few things I do understand no a few things I dont. Rather than say what my understanding is and ask for comets I thought it may be easier if anyone willing to give me a blow by blow step by step on the process 
Hoping to this on Saturday morning


----------



## Killer Brew

Seems fairly straight forward. Single temp mash at 67 degrees for 1 hour at a guess. Sparge at 75 degrees. Mash and sparge volumes should be as per GF calcs (avail in booklet or app). Boil 1 hour.


----------



## Coldspace

doctr-dan said:


> Woohoo picked up a gf and gf urn etc about a month ago second hand for a pretty good price .
> The guy also gave me a AG kit from cheeky peek, American pale ale
> The only thing I didn't pick up was the box of i know what I am doing
> This is the brew sheet
> 
> 
> 
> image.jpg
> There's a few things I do understand no a few things I dont. Rather than say what my understanding is and ask for comets I thought it may be easier if anyone willing to give me a blow by blow step by step on the process
> Hoping to this on Saturday morning


Ok mate, can't read the receipe on my IPad, but basically do this for single batch,
1. Fill GF upto about 16 ltrs. Make sure inlet strainer at bottom is in place.
2. Adjust temp to 66 or whatever the receipe asks for. Flick the bottom switch at base to normal setting.
Turn switch at controller to mash setting.
3. Inset grain basket, with centre pipe, adjust length about 2/3 rds up, insert stop tube down centre. This stops grain
Going down when filling.
4: when temp gets to 66-67 you will notice on controller the "work light" switches off. The element is off now.
Switch bottom switch at base of unit to mash setting. Leave top switch on controller to mash.
5: time to mash in grain, slowly add about 1 kg at a time, stir in and break up and down with the mash stirring 
To make sure all lumps are broken up. Stir in till all grain is in. Looks like a runny porridge.
6: place top plate down over pipe into stainless mash tube, and insert evenly down to top of grain bed only just
Touching it. Keep the little lugs on top perforated plate upwards. Remove grain filler blocker,
Insert the round sleeve over the pipe and position downwards the sleeve while the tube slides down
To the perforated plate and into the hole of plate and locks in.
7: screw on pump outlet tube, insert thru the glass lid hole, and start pump.
8: check temps and set timer for 1 hr. I use my iPhone timer.
9: adjust temp to 78 for mash out , switch base unit switch back to normal,
And stay with unit till temp gets to 78, and then switch back to mash, and leave for 15 mins for mash out .
10. At end of mash out , switch the bottom switch to normal, top switch to boil, and lift basket up and lock in for sparge.
11. Sparge till you get to the 28 ltr level, with 75-80 degree water. Lift out totally the grain basket.
12: wait to boil starts, the controller will beep when ready, then wait 30 mins, then start hop additions etc over the,
Next 60 mins or whatever your receipe asks for.
13: when finished shut top boil switch to off. And either use the chiller, or do what I do and fill a 20 ltr cube. You
Will have approx 23-24 ltrs at end so after losses I usually get 22 into a 20 ltr cube filled to the brim.
14: when cool, do fermenter and yeast etc.
15: after a few runs, you'll want to get into double batching standard grav beers in this thing which is what I always do now.
Using an immersion heater and cubes, I get 2 cornies in basically the same time.

Great units, make good wort. 

Others may chime in with other techniques, but this is what I do.

Cheers


----------



## paulyman

As Killer Brew said, easiest to input the grain weight into the grainfather calculator and it will tell you how much water to add.

Cold space has done a wonderful job taking you through the steps. A few points in there to pay attention to, or you will have issues. (Read that as things I and/or others have forgotten to do and regretted it).

1. As cold space said, make sure you have the filter in place! I missed that once, thankfully before adding the grain, but not before the water had reached 60! Thankfully just had to transfer to the sparge heater and then start again.

2. Make sure the bottom plate is in! I haven't done that yet, but was close!

3. Make sure if you remove the ring that the grain basket sits on during sparge (yes it comes out! I only realised that after a few brews), that you put it back in before you attempt to lift the full basket out. I know someone on here made that mistake once.

4. Enjoy the brew day, it really is a breeze with this bit of kit!


----------



## fishingbrad

doctr-dan said:


> Woohoo picked up a gf and gf urn etc about a month ago second hand for a pretty good price .
> The guy also gave me a AG kit from cheeky peek, American pale ale
> The only thing I didn't pick up was the box of i know what I am doing
> This is the brew sheet
> 
> 
> 
> image.jpg
> 
> There's a few things I do understand no a few things I dont. Rather than say what my understanding is and ask for comets I thought it may be easier if anyone willing to give me a blow by blow step by step on the process
> Hoping to this on Saturday morning


What Coldspace said.

Also download the app. it's really good and it will walk you through the process.
Happy brewing


----------



## paulyman

As Killer Brew said, easiest to input the grain weight into the grainfather calculator and it will tell you how much water to add.

Cold space has done a wonderful job taking you through the steps. A few points in there to pay attention to, or you will have issues. (Read that as things I and/or others have forgotten to do and regretted it).

1. As cold space said, make sure you have the filter in place! I missed that once, thankfully before adding the grain, but not before the water had reached 60! Thankfully just had to transfer to the sparge heater and then start again.

2. Make sure the bottom plate is in! I haven't done that yet, but was close!

3. Make sure if you remove the ring that the grain basket sits on during sparge (yes it comes out! I only realised that after a few brews), that you put it back in before you attempt to lift the full basket out. I know someone on here made that mistake once.

4. Enjoy the brew day, it really is a breeze with this bit of kit!


----------



## doctr-dan

Great thanks guys, confirmed a few things and filled in a few gaps. 

A couple more things, the brew sheet says, desired mash temp 67 degrees and then strike water temp 70.4 degrees? 

And again desired sparge temp 75 degrees and then soarge water temp 106.9 degrees? 

Also do I check the sg just after mashing? Do I just scoop some worr out with a cup or something and let it cool to about 20 degrees before taking the reading? 
And then again after the boil?


----------



## fishingbrad

Forget those terms when using the GF. set temp @ 67 and rain in your grains.


----------



## A.B.

Having strike water a bit higher than mash temp is a method of catering for the grains being cooler than the water. I don't bother with that.

Sparge temp should be same as mash-out temp, that 106.9 deg seems crazy wrong to me.

You can check the SG whenever you like!. My preboil readings have been a few points off the recipe targets in the 4 brews I've done.


----------



## doctr-dan

Okay so I mash for 1hr at 67 degrees and then heat to 75 degrees once at 75 degrees leave it for 15 mins the start sparging?


----------



## LAGERFRENZY

Timely cheat sheets guys - I brought my GF many months ago from Brad but life got too busy to brew with it til now. Gunna fire her up this weekend. Damn this thread is good!


----------



## carniebrew

doctr-dan said:


> Okay so I mash for 1hr at 67 degrees and then heat to 75 degrees once at 75 degrees leave it for 15 mins the start sparging?


That'll do it. With most grains you'd probably get away with doing the 67C for 45m, then doing your mash out. Just remember to start sparging (with 75C ish water) pretty quickly after pulling up the mash pipe, or your sparge will take a lot longer.


----------



## A.B.

Yep


----------



## Coldspace

Definitely have your sparge jug ready to go with 76 to 80 water as soon as you pull the malt pipe.
Start pouring in around evenly across top plate as soon as the wort drains down past . And keep it pouring sparge. If you pause too long, the grain bed will drop down in temp and make the sparge too long or if double batch run the risk of stuck. 
Sometimes I feel the tap on the gf urn can't keep up with the sparge drain, so I scoop sparge water out and onto top plate with a mug while filling sparge jug up, otherwise it slows down way to much. I don't want the sparge to drain down too deep into grain bed before next top up, otherwise the grain bed bogs down.

Keep the sparge flowing guys if double batching, I find 85 on my gf urn temp setting gives me about 80 into the jug after losses waiting for fill, and about 77 to 79 when onto top of grain bed.

Temp drops pretty quickly , so start at 85 on the gf urn dial.

I get my double batch sparges done in approx 10-15 mins.
Done over 50 double batches now, usually 1 a week on average, more so lately and this is what I've encountered.
Cheers


----------



## fishingbrad

What Coldspace said.

I turn my urn ON when mashing begins. This insures sparge water is up to temp when needed. I use 2 jugs alternating, colleting 2-3lt at a time depending how fast the sparge runs.
Good point on the sparge water temp drop Coldspace, I never thought of that. shall up mine.

Once you get a couple of single batches under your belt, go back and read Coldspace's post on double batching. It really is worth while and stuff all more effort.

Happy Brewing.


----------



## doctr-dan

Brew dy started 26.5 litres up to mash temp in 30minsabout to add the grain


----------



## doctr-dan

Pause to much water ! Almost stuffed up


----------



## doctr-dan

Looking good while mashing




Once I lifted the basket I forgot to push the plate down before sparging, is this going to be a problem?
Sparge seemed to be done pretty quick like 10-15mins max.

I just scooped out some wort to let cool and take a sg reading pre boil.



What's with the colour?????


----------



## Wee Jimmy

If you have a high enough bench in your brew space a length of hose coiled onto top plate and shoved on the end of the urn tap let sparge water drain through onto top plate. Will post a pic this arvo


----------



## carniebrew

doctr-dan said:


> Looking good while mashing
> 
> 
> 
> image.jpg
> 
> Once I lifted the basket I forgot to push the plate down before sparging, is this going to be a problem?
> Sparge seemed to be done pretty quick like 10-15mins max.
> 
> I just scooped out some wort to let cool and take a sg reading pre boil.
> 
> 
> 
> image.jpg
> 
> What's with the colour?????


No probs on pushing the plate down, the sparge water's still getting through the mash.

How did you scoop the wort out for an sg reading, just from the top? Looks like you got mostly water. Make sure you give the wort a really good stir to ensure consistency before taking a sample. And if you can afford it I highly recommend a refractometer, much easier using a little pipette to take a few ml for a sample, that sample cools much faster and the refracs often have temp compensation anyway.


----------



## doctr-dan

Chilling now!

That ball valve got block straight away so had to pull it apart, made a bit of a mess.

When running a cleaning cycle do you put the grain basket and everything back in?


----------



## carniebrew

doctr-dan said:


> Chilling now!
> 
> That ball valve got block straight away so had to pull it apart, made a bit of a mess.
> 
> When running a cleaning cycle do you put the grain basket and everything back in?


I don't, I clean it separately. I hook the chiller up, then put the return arm onto the wort out tube on the chiller, re'circing back into the Grainfather.


----------



## doctr-dan

Still chilling , ball valve got blacked again so I have removed it now. 
It's started slowing right down again should I try give the filter a scrape?


----------



## A.B.

doctr-dan said:


> Chilling now!
> 
> That ball valve got block straight away so had to pull it apart, made a bit of a mess.
> 
> When running a cleaning cycle do you put the grain basket and everything back in?


Cool. I clean the basket while boiling, then I also put it back in for the final clean, then a rinse and a spray of starsan.

My chook get the spent grain, but it can also go in the compost.


----------



## Wee Jimmy

As per earlier post


----------



## nfragol

Has anyone tried the new beersmith 2.3 update with the grainfather?

Its supposed to have fixed the mash and sparge calculations that didn't agree with the grainfather calculators.


----------



## paulyman

I've tried updating but keep getting an error that it"could not establish connection to server". So I'll give up for a day or two and see if I can try again.

Edited - auto correct changed day to week for some crazy reason! Bit exessive auto correct.


----------



## nfragol

I had the same issue at first, but after a computer restart the software updated correctly.


----------



## paulyman

Okay upgraded successfully today. I can't see any difference, it's not matching the grainfather calculator? I have it setup as per an earlier linked post.

I think I'll keep my process the same. Use Beersmith for recipe formulation and predicting efficiency and OG and use the calculator for volumes.


----------



## nfragol

There is supposedly an option in the equipment profile that adds the mash tun deadspace volume to the first mash step.

That should make the volumes calculations correct for the grainfather.

When I give it a try I'll let you know.


----------



## nads

Killer Brew said:


> Would have thought too fine a crush would just result in wort running down the overflow. Won't be the removal of the ball & spring, most of us ripped that out early on with no impact. Perhaps use the lever to slow the recirc a little and see if this prevents the frothing?


I purchased the original Grainfather version and recently installed the upgrade kit including the new discharge pipe with ball valve. I have made one brew with it and have had no problems. What is the advantage of removing the ball and spring ?


----------



## Coodgee

I've never had a problem with the ball and spring but it seems to clog up for some people.


----------



## BKBrews

For those putting 23L batches from the grainfather into their fermenters.... What is the bottling/kegging volume you're getting? What sort of trub losses?

I'm about to pull the trigger............


----------



## Killer Brew

BKBrews said:


> For those putting 23L batches from the grainfather into their fermenters.... What is the bottling/kegging volume you're getting? What sort of trub losses?
> 
> I'm about to pull the trigger............


Around 21L on a normal brew. Big beers with dry hopping a bit less.


----------



## Killer Brew

nads said:


> I purchased the original Grainfather version and recently installed the upgrade kit including the new discharge pipe with ball valve. I have made one brew with it and have had no problems. What is the advantage of removing the ball and spring ?


Mine was getting clogged sometimes with hop and grain residue. Given it doesn't add anything operationally I pulled it out and haven't regretted it. Just make sure you don't accidentally switch on the pump without anything attached!


----------



## btrots87

I've never had any problems with the ball and spring clogging up so until I do I'll just be leaving it in. I prefer to know that if I accidently flick the wrong switch at the wrong time I won't get a boiling wort geyser in my kitchen. 

It is important to pull it apart and give it a clean out at the end of a brew day though.


----------



## Killer Brew

Agreed, if no issue then no need to change. Happened to me a couple of brews in a row though and it delays the chill when you need to pull apart and clean. I attach the worth chiller post mash now and leave it on the bench with the outlet in the sink just in case I have a brain fade and knock the switch


----------



## Exile

Couldn't help myself, today's purchases for the Grainfather.
Looking at doing a few small test batches 

Grainfather Micro Pipework and the Grainfather Overflow Filter


----------



## A.B.

I might have to get one of those overflow filters, my last 2 brews have both wanted to overflow, I've had to almost shut the recirc off.


----------



## fishingbrad

Exile said:


> Couldn't help myself, today's purchases for the Grainfather.
> Looking at doing a few small test batches
> 
> Grainfather Micro Pipework and the Grainfather Overflow Filter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grainfather Micro Pipework and the Grainfather Overflow Filter.jpg


Where did you purchase the filter. Had a look on their website and nothing there.


----------



## Exile

I purchased them from here https://nationalhomebrew.com.au/beer/brewing-equipment-pots-and-hardware/grainfather-overflow-filter


----------



## doctr-dan

Whats everyone's chill time? 
On Saturday I was almost chilling for 1-1.5hrs including cleaning the ball valve a couple I times and then removing it all together. 
I thought it would have been a bit quicker. My tap water was about 15 degrees and I chilled down to 18.


----------



## welly2

doctr-dan said:


> Whats everyone's chill time?
> On Saturday I was almost chilling for 1-1.5hrs including cleaning the ball valve a couple I times and then removing it all together.
> I thought it would have been a bit quicker. My tap water was about 15 degrees and I chilled down to 18.


Has varied between 20 minutes and about an hour for me. Usually averages about 1/2 hour down to pitching temperature.


----------



## kaiserben

doctr-dan said:


> Whats everyone's chill time?
> On Saturday I was almost chilling for 1-1.5hrs including cleaning the ball valve a couple I times and then removing it all together.
> I thought it would have been a bit quicker. My tap water was about 15 degrees and I chilled down to 18.


??? As fast as the pump pumps. 15 mins or so. 

Are you recircing through your chiller, back into the kettle and then waiting for the temp to drop? If that's what you're doing then you're doing it wrong and you're just wasting time and an incredible amount of water. 

Just forget what temperature the control box says (unless you're specifically trying to perform a hop stand or something), recirc only until the hose leaving the chiller is cool to the touch (about 15 seconds), then immediately start pumping out to your fermenter. 

EDIT: I've not bothered to upgrade the pipework with the ball valve etc, so not sure if having to stop and clean it was what made it much longer for you?


----------



## doctr-dan

kaiserben said:


> ??? As fast as the pump pumps. 15 mins or so.
> 
> Are you recircing through your chiller, back into the kettle and then waiting for the temp to drop? If that's what you're doing then you're doing it wrong and you're just wasting time and an incredible amount of water.
> Just forget what temperature the control box says (unless you're specifically trying to perform a hop stand or something), recirc only until the hose leaving the chiller is cool to the touch (about 15 seconds), then immediately start pumping out to your fermenter.
> 
> EDIT: I've not bothered to upgrade the pipework with the ball valve etc, so not sure if having to stop and clean it was what made it much longer for you?


Yep I did it wrong then, waited until the temp prob was down to 18  and wasted alooooot of water! 
Would have cut an hour of the time too.


----------



## BKBrews

> ??? As fast as the pump pumps. 15 mins or so.
> 
> Are you recircing through your chiller, back into the kettle and then waiting for the temp to drop? If that's what you're doing then you're doing it wrong and you're just wasting time and an incredible amount of water.
> 
> Just forget what temperature the control box says (unless you're specifically trying to perform a hop stand or something), recirc only until the hose leaving the chiller is cool to the touch (about 15 seconds), then immediately start pumping out to your fermenter.
> 
> EDIT: I've not bothered to upgrade the pipework with the ball valve etc, so not sure if having to stop and clean it was what made it much longer for you?


So let me get this straight.... you're pointing the wort out pipe of the chiller back into the fermenter for 15 seconds (or as long as it takes for it to be 'cool'), then switching the pump off, moving the wort out pipe to your fermenter and turning the pump back on?


----------



## kaiserben

Exactly what I do, yes.


----------



## Killer Brew

Recirc for about a minute through the chiller back into the GF with no cold water counterflowing to sanitise the chiller then start up the water and once returned wort runs cold run it straight off into fermenter.


----------



## kaiserben

Killer Brew said:


> Recirc for about a minute through the chiller back into the GF with no cold water counterflowing to sanitise the chiller then start up the water and once returned wort runs cold run it straight off into fermenter.


I do that for 10 minutes (before I do what I've posted above), which is what it said in the instructions when I first bought the GF.


----------



## Killer Brew

Yeah ok, haven't read them in a while. Seems like overkill with 90 degree plus wort running through. Already worried that my late additions spend too much time at high temps.


----------



## Killer Brew

Just checked in my IBD text re hot water sterilisation and it suggests that above 85 degrees for 20 mins is required. Mind you that is sterilisation which is a higher standard than the sanitisation that we are looking for. But perhaps my 1 minute is pushing my luck a little. I wonder if I should run starsan through it prior to filling the GF on brew day? Or perhaps another way to get it through the chiller without using the GF. Otherwise I will need to look at adjusting all of my late addition hops.


----------



## kaiserben

Killer Brew said:


> Yeah ok, haven't read them in a while. Seems like overkill with 90 degree plus wort running through. Already worried that my late additions spend too much time at high temps.


I think I've read somewhere that 10 mins above 90C will kill 99.9% of stuff that might infect a beer (which is also why if you were making a yeast starter using DME you'd boil it for 10-15 minutes). 

Your concern about that extra time is more than valid in some cases, but usually any beer of mine with late additions big enough to make a difference will get hit with more and more hops the later it gets - so any issues become negligible. But you could adjust your late addition timings back by 10 minutes. (ie. so an @15 minute addition as listed in your recipe would actually be added 5 mins before the end of the boil).


----------



## kaiserben

Don't bother with starsan on the hot side of your equipment. Just recirc for 10 mins and adjust your additions.


----------



## kaiserben

I've occasionally wondered if it's feasible to do that sanitisation recirc for the last 10 minutes of the boil? I'd assume if it was feasible that the GF people would've had the instructions tell us to do it like that instead of 10 minutes after the boil.

Does anyone have any ideas about that? 

If nothing else it'd shave 10 mins off your brew day.


----------



## Killer Brew

More concerned with my flame out additions. Other option would be to add them in once chilling had commenced. Have seen commercial guys do this once a certain amount has gone through the heat exchanger as they have such a large volume to chill and want to get the timing of contact just right.

10 min recirc during last 10 mins of boil would work also. Whether it effects the strength of boil with a volume going out and coming back in marginally cooler would be my only question.


----------



## Killer Brew

kaiserben said:


> Don't bother with starsan on the hot side of your equipment. Just recirc for 10 mins and adjust your additions.


? Chiller is cold side. Time saving of 10 mins would be worth the effort I think. Might give this a go next brew.


----------



## BKBrews

Which mash profile are you all using for the grainfather? I would have thought adding the grainfather equipment profile would also add a mash profile!


----------



## Killer Brew

In Beersmith?


----------



## BKBrews

Killer Brew said:


> In Beersmith?


Yep.

I was just messing around with a few recipes using the grainfather equipment profile, but couldn't figure out which mash profile to use. I also can't find the best settings for the equipment profile (deadspace, boil off etc). I can get the mash water calculations pretty close but not exactly as they are using the grainfather calculators.


----------



## Killer Brew

I read on here somewhere that the new version has an updated Grainfather profile that is more accurate now. Perhaps do a search under "Beersmith" here. I created my own profile a while back.


----------



## BKBrews

Killer Brew said:


> I read on here somewhere that the new version has an updated Grainfather profile that is more accurate now. Perhaps do a search under "Beersmith" here. I created my own profile a while back.


Ah right, I haven't downloaded the new beersmith version yet. Thanks! Will see how it compares.


----------



## Goodbeer

Hey guys 

Doing my first high ibu beer on my gf this weekend, a black IPA.

Will be dropping 140g of pellets in during boil.

So far have dropped my hops straight in, just after any opinions on whether this many hops might clog the trub filter?

Was gonna get a hop spider, thought I'd try without and save myself $45 on the chance it might not clog.

I do have a large grain bag I could use as a sock, haven't used a sock so far, for some reason I'd rather not.

Cheers


----------



## Coldspace

Just use the sock mate. Especially with large amount of hops. Just use a peg to hold it up at the top.


----------



## A.B.

Yep sock it to those hops.


----------



## wildwhitty

I use the swimming pool skimmer socks from Cole or Woolies. Put each addition in it's own sock and hank them off the clips
Around the top.


----------



## Chridech

Killer Brew said:


> More concerned with my flame out additions. Other option would be to add them in once chilling had commenced. Have seen commercial guys do this once a certain amount has gone through the heat exchanger as they have such a large volume to chill and want to get the timing of contact just right.
> 
> 10 min recirc during last 10 mins of boil would work also. Whether it effects the strength of boil with a volume going out and coming back in marginally cooler would be my only question.


I do something similar for hop stand additions. Turn off the element and start the chiller re-circulating. Takes about 5 minutes to get the wort down to 90C by which time the chiller should be sterilised. Throw the hop stand hop stand additions in at 88C and let it chill down. I don't let it fall any lower than 73C whilst in the hopstand as IIRC this is pasteurisation temperature. Sometimes I've stopped the re-circ and turned on the mash element if I'm doing an extra-long hopstand (eg. 40-60 minutes). Hopstand at these temps will not extract a lot of extra bitterness but will capture a good proportion of the volatile flavour/aroma compounds. Keeping above 73C hopefully avoids bugs contaminating. Has worked well for me in IPAs and hoppy Amber ales. Maximum flavour without mouth puckering harsh bitterness. IMO it is the the way to go, especially when paired with first wort hopping.


----------



## Killer Brew

Sounds good although I would have thought a few minutes above 70 degrees would be plenty and could then go lower without risk. I know that for pasteurising fruit you only need 2 mins at 70 degrees and hops are far less prone to bacteria being somewhat antiseptic.


----------



## welly2

Brewed an IPA with 210g of hops the other day, no problem with clogging the filter. The biggest problem I've had in the past was the ball and spring in the return pipe. Removed that and not had a problem since.


----------



## BKBrews

I pulled the trigger on a GF this morning.... Can't wait!!!


----------



## kaiserben

BKBrews said:


> Which mash profile are you all using for the grainfather? I would have thought adding the grainfather equipment profile would also add a mash profile!


There's not one single mash profile that works for everything. 

Mash profiles depend on your recipe and what you want out of it. Different beer styles are going to have different mash steps. 

In BeerSmith it's up to you to decide those mash steps and profiles. (but you can save them and re-use them for similar styled beers if you want). 

EDIT:
BeerSmith also has a range of pre-existing default mash profiles that you could choose from.


----------



## BKBrews

> There's not one single mash profile that works for everything.
> 
> Mash profiles depend on your recipe and what you want out of it. Different beer styles are going to have different mash steps.
> 
> In BeerSmith it's up to you to decide those mash steps and profiles. (but you can save them and re-use them for similar styled beers if you want).
> 
> EDIT:
> BeerSmith also has a range of pre-existing default mash profiles that you could choose from.


Yeah I understand that, but I would have thought they would also have a simple grainfather 2 step mash profile that includes the grainfather water calculations. e.g. 66 degree Mash in, 10min 75 degree mash out, 75 degree sparge, all at the correct water levels.

I'm assuming the beer smith mash water/sparge water calculations are derived partly by the mash profile selected or no?


----------



## kaiserben

No. Not at all.


----------



## Killer Brew

There are GF profiles in there but have been inaccurate historically. I understand there is now one added in the latest update that accurately calculates mash and sparge volumes though as well as evap rates, deadspace etc. I haven't looked at it yet to check it out as I had created my own profile for the GF.

As KB said mash profiles are separate to this and you can create your own or select from some preset.


----------



## Exile

If someone from Grainfather is watching this topic, Please have an option or upgrade it to Quick Disconnects.


----------



## welly2

BKBrews said:


> I pulled the trigger on a GF this morning.... Can't wait!!!


Welcome to the cultclub!


----------



## welly2

Exile said:


> If someone from Grainfather is watching this topic, Please have an option or upgrade it to Quick Disconnects.


Nice mod.


----------



## Exile

welly2 said:


> Nice mod.


Yep not mine, but seriously thinking about doing the same


----------



## nfragol

Looks really good, what would we need to go about this?


----------



## Exile

This guy has the mod in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vdLlAITI2Y


----------



## Killer Brew

Looks great. Have scored a bunch of connectors etc that I have to sort through. Will see what I can wrangle together to copy this.


----------



## LAGERFRENZY

Great mod - shame about the vudeo - bloke us as dull as dushwater


----------



## welly2

LAGERFRENZY said:


> Great mod - shame about the vudeo - bloke us as dull as dushwater


I thunk he might hiv hid too many Tuis, bro.


----------



## Chridech

I'll play devil's advocate. But why? The sparge arm takes all of 15 seconds to screw in place with less chance of flicking hot wort everywhere than a bendy hose. Never had a problem with th ball-valve clogging as some have done and the red flow-control tap on the upgraded version works fine.


----------



## Exile

Personally I find the screws to be a pita


----------



## LAGERFRENZY

Choice bet of ket Cuz


----------



## BKBrews

This arrived today and I rushed home to set it up.

Pretty impressed, but some bits are a bit flimsier than I expected. The bottom plate seems a little bent and doesn't have a perfect seal, but I'm hoping the weight of the grain holding it down will mean this isn't an issue. In general, the plates seem to be a pita.

Just need a temp controller for my new ferm fridge and I'll be ready for my first brew!


----------



## Coldspace

The plates are abit flexible. Store them flat and they tend to straight out abit. Also when putting the silicone seal on, wet the tube before sliding the plate down tends to seal abit better. If you push too fast or not down on an angle before straightening the plates out the seal tends to pop off.

I'm past 55 brews on mine most are double batched and all is good so far. My temp buttons are starting to wear abit on the stc but so far mines been faultless.

They make good beer once you get it dialed in.


----------



## BKBrews

Coldspace said:


> The plates are abit flexible. Store them flat and they tend to straight out abit. Also when putting the silicone seal on, wet the tube before sliding the plate down tends to seal abit better. If you push too fast or not down on an angle before straightening the plates out the seal tends to pop off.
> 
> I'm past 55 brews on mine most are double batched and all is good so far. My temp buttons are starting to wear abit on the stc but so far mines been faultless.
> 
> They make good beer once you get it dialed in.


Thanks for the tips. 

I did mess around with the top plate when I set it up and found that the angle definitely helps. It also helped to push the seal against the side as it first started slipping, which had to be done slowly and affirms your theory.

Sounds like you'll be ready for the new controller when it arrives. The Grainfather social media team told me that the new control will be a $200 add on, so $200 for the controller or $1350 for the full kit ($1150 + $200). I bought mine from Cheeky Peak Brewery for $995 + $15 shipping.


----------



## Killer Brew

The plates and seals are a PITA. You do learn quickly the best approach to getting them in place though and they do the job.


----------



## BKBrews

Killer Brew said:


> The plates and seals are a PITA. You do learn quickly the best approach to getting them in place though and they do the job.


I don't understand why the bottom plate isn't welded to the malt pipe? I don't really see the benefit in being able to take it out - surely a quick wash with water would get all of the grain out of it.


----------



## Killer Brew

I can't think of a reason either


----------



## malt junkie

cost


----------



## Killer Brew

Father in law is a food grade welder. Might see if he feels like doing a little mod for me.


----------



## Killer Brew

On another note and do people think it is possible to do a proper whirlpool on the GF or is it a waste of time given the filter positioning? Am wondering if I was to modify the mash recirc arm to attach a piece of copper tubing curved to the base of the GF and then run the pump if I could get a good whirlpool going or if the flow rate isn't strong enough?


----------



## carniebrew

Killer Brew said:


> On another note and do people think it is possible to do a proper whirlpool on the GF or is it a waste of time given the filter positioning? Am wondering if I was to modify the mash recirc arm to attach a piece of copper tubing curved to the base of the GF and then run the pump if I could get a good whirlpool going or if the flow rate isn't strong enough?


There's no need for a whirlpool KB...with the filter in place getting a trub cone post boil really isn't necessary.


----------



## Killer Brew

It could greatly reduce the debris around the filter and reduce load on the pump.


----------



## tugger

A whirlpool arm does work. 
I made a stainless elbow and it whirlpools with the immersion chiller in the pot, old school.


----------



## A.B.

Killer Brew said:


> On another note and do people think it is possible to do a proper whirlpool on the GF or is it a waste of time given the filter positioning? Am wondering if I was to modify the mash recirc arm to attach a piece of copper tubing curved to the base of the GF and then run the pump if I could get a good whirlpool going or if the flow rate isn't strong enough?


I tried a whirlpool on my last brew, knocked the bloody filter off! Won't try it again...


----------



## Exile

Another option the Grainfather should have


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY9o10RYZhs


----------



## wambesi

A.B. said:


> I tried a whirlpool on my last brew, knocked the bloody filter off! Won't try it again...


I whirlpool mine, never had a problem or filters coming off. Mind you, I don't stick the mash paddle all the way down and it still does a fine job of a whirlpool.


----------



## GalBrew

wambesi said:


> I whirlpool mine, never had a problem or filters coming off. Mind you, I don't stick the mash paddle all the way down and it still does a fine job of a whirlpool.


I agree, the only system I have ever used when I have whirlpooled with a mash paddle and got nice trub cone.


----------



## Exile

I have finally dialed in my Grainfather equipment profile and the Mash & Sparge Water calculations in beersmith 
Feel free to use and abuse B)


Grainfather Equipment Profile
View attachment Grainfather Profile.bsmx


Mash Profiles
View attachment Full Body Mash.bsmx

View attachment Medium Body Mash.bsmx

View attachment Light Body Mash.bsmx


----------



## paulyman

Nice, I just tested these out versus on the new version against the Grainfather Calculator and it works great, for different amounts of grain. The mash volume is spot on, the sparge volume appears out by a couple of hundred mL compared to the calculator at least for me but the volume etchings are only in 1L increments so that's not a big deal at all. Good job, this will make brew day even easier, no need to jump between Beersmith and the Grainfather app anymore.


----------



## kaiserben

Good work. Been waiting for a BS profile where I don't need to check GF calcs. 

What about if you throw different boil times at the above profile? Still good? (for a 90 min boil for example).


----------



## Exile

Still good my end


----------



## BKBrews

And so it begins......


----------



## BKBrews

Seems to be going to plan.... Anyone else notice a fair bit of grain husk being recirculated during the mash? Is it to do with my grain crush or how I've put the top plate on? 

The top plate was below the water line, so it was hard to get a good feel on where the grain bed was. Seems to be recirculating pretty quickly and overflowing too - I hope a good amount is running through the grain.


----------



## A.B.

You can always slow down the flow using the ball lock, so that the overflow isn't so high. Even turn off the pump for a while.


----------



## BKBrews

Need some urgent help - finished chilling and turned off the pump.... It seems to have created a vacuum? Wort is stuck in the exit pump AND won't fall back into the pump.... What the hell do I do?


----------



## A.B.

blow down the exit tube


----------



## BKBrews

Probably the longest day of my life, but brew day 1 in the GF is in the books.

I could not believe how well everything works, but it literally took me over 6 hours from start to finish, most likely because I'm extremely anal and more likely because I wanted to ensure my thousand dollar toy stays in good condition.

My issues: 
- missed my batch size by about 1L (22L in the fermenter). Not sure why - was bang on 28L prior to boil and post sparge.
- forgot to add my whirfloc tablet (whoops)
- when transferring the wort to my fermenter a lot of wort got stuck in the chiller (wouldn't go into the fermenter and wouldn't suck back down to the GF when I stopped the pump)
- while cleaning, I couldn't pump water through the chiller. Took me about an hour to figure it out - something to do with the seal. Was leaking water and worked, but I managed to stop the leak too and get it to work properly.
- cleaning. Took me a life time.

Notes for next day:
- clean all elements of malt pipe once boil and bittering hops addition is complete. Just clean EVERYTHING as you go.

Annoying things:
- I stuffed up the rehydrating of my yeast. I boiled water and when I went to pitch the yeast I noticed it was full of floating pieces so abandoned it. Chilling was done, needed to pitch, so I sprinkled directly onto the wort [emoji16] definitely want to get into making starters prior to brew day.

Notes:
- missed my recipe SG by 3 points. Ended with 1.062 instead of 1.065 (in beersmith with 73% brewhouse efficiency.
- no issues at all with the ball valve. There was heaps of shit stuck but it kept going. Might actually clean it out during the boil next time though to speed the flow through the chiller.


----------



## BKBrews

Also wanted to add, this thing uses an insaaaane amount of water to cool. I couldn't believe it. I filled a large plastic bin about 2 times.

Would also love some opinions on how people add 'whirlpool' or 'flameout' hops. Are you just dumping them in as soon as you switch the machine off from the boil? How long are you then waiting before starting to chill?


----------



## paulyman

Sounds like you have kept good notes to help improve the next brew. Clean as you go will definitely shorten brew day. 

I've got to admit after 10 or so brews (on the GF) I am still yet to actually use the chiller I just whirlpool for 10 or so minutes after the boil and then pump into a cube. But I haven't brewed an IPA for over a year, so I don't miss it.


----------



## Killer Brew

BKBrews said:


> - when transferring the wort to my fermenter a lot of wort got stuck in the chiller (wouldn't go into the fermenter and wouldn't suck back down to the GF when I stopped the pump)


Unscrew from the outlet pipe and hold the connection above the height of the chiller. Gravity will do the rest in about 30 secs.


----------



## BKBrews

> Unscrew from the outlet pipe and hold the connection above the height of the chiller. Gravity will do the rest in about 30 secs.


Won't I spray it everywhere if I disconnect while there's still wort in the pipes?


----------



## Killer Brew

not as long as the pump is off. the ball lock will prevent it.


----------



## BKBrews

> not as long as the pump is off. the ball lock will prevent it.


Yeah, I still had wort in the short pipe that goes from the recirc arm to the chiller though, so if I had disconnected it I would have spilt some of it before I managed to turn it up the other way.

I'm currently trying to figure out whether I can fit another fermenter in my fridge so I can do another brew this weekend haha. I bought a 30L fermenter which takes up a fair bit of room in my fermenter fridge - should have gone with 2 x 25L I think.

Next up will be a smash - Maris Otter Malt, US-05 yeast and lots of late Chinook. After that going to try my hand at a lager. Love this kit.


----------



## kaiserben

BKBrews said:


> I bought a 30L fermenter which takes up a fair bit of room in my fermenter fridge - should have gone with 2 x 25L I think.


You'll change your mind on that once you've seen a big krausen or two. You really need that extra head space for quite a lot of yeasts. 

25L is useless IMO. I have one 25L fermenter that only ever gets used as a bottling bucket.


----------



## Bridgey23

kaiserben said:


> You'll change your mind on that once you've seen a big krausen or two. You really need that extra head space for quite a lot of yeasts.
> 
> 25L is useless IMO. I have one 25L fermenter that only ever gets used as a bottling bucket.


Ever heard of a blow off tube?


----------



## kaiserben

Bridgey23 said:


> Ever heard of a blow off tube?


Yeah. I've used one before. Personally I'd rather not have more crap to clean and sanitise. And I'd also rather not have to clean crud from the underside of the fermenter lid.

But each to their own.


----------



## BKBrews

My main problem is that the 30L fermenters aren't going to fit in my fridge. I think two of them side by side will be about 40 - 50mm too wide, which sucks. I might get away with having one at the back corner and the other at the front diagonally. We'll see. But I definitely want to be able to ferment 2 brews at a time!


----------



## A.B.

I had same issue, 2 30L fermenters and only 1 fridge with only space for 1Fv, so I built an insulated box out of a tea chest for the other. Works fine in cold months where I only have to heat the box, doesn't work in warmer months as I can't chill it, so I just don't brew so much in late spring and Summer.


----------



## Killer Brew

BKBrews said:


> Yeah, I still had wort in the short pipe that goes from the recirc arm to the chiller though, so if I had disconnected it I would have spilt some of it before I managed to turn it up the other way.


A few drops if any in my experience instead of losing all that is within the chiller. You are not brewing if you are not making a mess!


----------



## Killer Brew

BKBrews said:


> My main problem is that the 30L fermenters aren't going to fit in my fridge. I think two of them side by side will be about 40 - 50mm too wide, which sucks. I might get away with having one at the back corner and the other at the front diagonally. We'll see. But I definitely want to be able to ferment 2 brews at a time!


In my view not ideal having 2 different brews in the fridge at the same time anyway particularly if they are at different stages.


----------



## BKBrews

> In my view not ideal having 2 different brews in the fridge at the same time anyway particularly if they are at different stages.


so you only ever brew one beer at a time? Or you have separate fridges for different brews? I think my girlfriend would kill me....


----------



## Killer Brew

BKBrews said:


> so you only ever brew one beer at a time? Or you have separate fridges for different brews? I think my girlfriend would kill me....


I have a fridge and a chest freezer however I generally only brew twice per month so there is little overlap. When there is it usually has me cold crashing one beer in the chesty while the other is just starting out. Each fermentation has its own needs and I don't want to compromise one beer because another needs a temperature shift and vice versa. I think fermentation is a mix of art and science and I still have a lot to learn but take daily readings and graph them in Beersmith to try and improve my understanding. Having just finished 2 days assisting with judging at the SA state comps I was very surprised how often the subject of fermentation flavours came up, far more than infections of which we had few.


----------



## BKBrews

> I have a fridge and a chest freezer however I generally only brew twice per month so there is little overlap. When there is it usually has me cold crashing one beer in the chesty while the other is just starting out. Each fermentation has its own needs and I don't want to compromise one beer because another needs a temperature shift and vice versa. I think fermentation is a mix of art and science and I still have a lot to learn but take daily readings and graph them in Beersmith to try and improve my understanding. Having just finished 2 days assisting with judging at the SA state comps I was very surprised how often the subject of fermentation flavours came up, far more than infections of which we had few.


daily readings - wow. Do you have any beer left from the 23L batches? haha.

I plan on buying one of those brewometers. Take a hydrometer reading after putting in the fermenter and then relying on the brewometer for my data for the rest. Take another hydrometer sample prior to bottling just to cross-reference. An interesting take above. I probably plan on only doing 2 brews per month as well, so it shouldn't be too much of an issue, but being new to the GF I can see myself maybe doing 3 - 4 per month to begin with while the excitement levels are still high.

PS. Have been fermenting my first GF brew (an American IPA) since Saturday and even though I dry pitched 2 packets of US-05, it took off within 24 hours. Now has a solid one inch krausen and smells fantastic. I have high hopes based on the smell - completely takes over your face when the fridge is opened. Will probably take another sample this weekend to see how we're travelling. Plan is to ferment at 18 degrees until about 1.020 and then bump it up to 20 degrees to finish somewhere around 1.12 - 1.13.


----------



## Killer Brew

Refractometer. I also only do the full hydrometer checks into fermenter and prior to cold conditioning.


----------



## kaiserben

Obviously best-case scenario is total temp control from start to finish, but with 1 fridge you could get away with brewing ales weekly, unless you're desperate for crystal clear beers and want to crash chill in your fermenter before bottling/kegging. 

At certain times of year I only use the fridge for the first 4 days of active fermentation (then take fermenter out and leave it in cupboard at ambient temps, preferably a couple of degrees higher than I fermented at, until it has been at least 2 weeks since I pitched the yeast). 

Making a lager usually means my fridge is in use for a full month. So at those times I make weizens, which you can get good results from without temp control.


----------



## doctr-dan

A few questions,

1. Is the new filter a worth while upgrade?

2. Say I find a recipe I like the sound of how to adjust it to make it compatible for the GF so I don't have to ask all the time.
Eg, on AHB theres, Danos feral hop hog clone, two birds taco beer, 4 pines pale ale, bling India.
In short I have no idea.

3. A good resource for learning to make a recipe for dummies. Probably will help with question 2.

4. Brewing software, there's a few, which one should I choose? EG, beer smith which also has the iPad app


----------



## paulyman

1. I can't comment as I got my unit after they shipped with the current filter.

2. Using brewing software is easiest.

3. Brewing with Style by Jamil Alphabet is an awesome resource. Tried and true recipes for the common styles that you can use and tweek slightly. Or Designing Great Beers by Ray Daniels.

4. I use Beersmith. With the current version and the profiles linked above it is brilliant. It's a steep learning curve but once you get used to it you can input a recipe and adjust it to your system quite quickly.


----------



## kaiserben

If you want to get a quick idea about building recipes before stumping up cash then go to http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator/ and: 

Firstly: 
Change Units to metric. 
Change Batch Size to 23L.

And then play around with the variables: 
Enter some grains in the Fermentables section and see how the OG, FG, ABV and SRM values change when you alter grain weight and type. 
Enter some Hops, and enter them at different times and amounts, and see how they alter the IBU value. 

If you get your head around that, want to save recipes and delve more deeply into recipe building then get BeerSmith.


----------



## doctr-dan

kaiserben said:


> If you want to get a quick idea about building recipes before stumping up cash then go to http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator/ and:
> 
> Firstly:
> Change Units to metric.
> Change Batch Size to 23L.
> 
> And then play around with the variables:
> Enter some grains in the Fermentables section and see how the OG, FG, ABV and SRM values change when you alter grain weight and type.
> Enter some Hops, and enter them at different times and amounts, and see how they alter the IBU value.
> 
> If you get your head around that, want to save recipes and delve more deeply into recipe building then get BeerSmith.


Thanks.
So I've been plugging away on Brewers friend trying to do a 4pines pale ale clone from on here. DrSmurtos golden ale, even danos feral hop hog clone.
I'm just plugging random numbers in I have no idea, it's like stabbing in the dark
They don't have a lot of the grain names the same etc etc not that I understand the difference anyway.

I'm becoming one of those annoying constant question asking dumbarse forum people.
Should I start a different thread so I'm not clogging up this one.


----------



## kaiserben

Beersmith will likely have the exact malts you'll be using set out by brand, but for Brewer's Friend it's set out by country of origin: 

Say the recipe is something like 

85% Pale Malt 
10% Medium Cystal 
5% CaraPils 

What you'd do is plug in:
4.25kg of something like, say, "American - Pale Ale" (if you were using something like Briess Pale Ale Malt) 
0.50kg of "United Kingdom - Crystal 60" and 
0.25kg of "American - CaraPils (Dextrine Malt)" 

That will get you bang on 1.050 starting gravity. 

You can adjust that gravity up or down by making those grain weights bigger or smaller (while trying to keep the same 85%, 10%, 5% ratios). Have a play with that and you'll quickly understand how changing the amounts of grains changes your gravity. 

OH AND ALSO: 
In answer to your question 2, in Brewer's Friend you can plug the original recipe in (remembering to include the batch size of the original recipe) and then simply hover the mouse over "Recipe Tools" at top of the page, then select "Scale" and then entering "23L" in the "New Batch Size" field. 

You can do the same in BeerSmith, assuming you've set up your equipment profile and you've imported the original recipe as a BeerSmith .bsmx file which was created using someone's different equipment profile. It's just a single click of one of the icons/buttons on a recipe page.


----------



## BKBrews

I reckon just jump straight into beersmith mate. It's confusing as hell when you first start, but once you've got it working it's brilliant. The grainfather equipment profile isn't perfect, but with a few tweaks is nearly spot on. For example a 5kg grain bill requires 17L mash water + 15L sparge according to the GF calculators. I've got my beersmith to the point where it calculates 17L + 15.17L, so near perfect. The best part is you can add all of the grain brands into it as well, so you can actually select exactly what you're using e.g. Briess Pale Malt.


----------



## kaiserben

Exile said:


> I have finally dialed in my Grainfather equipment profile and the Mash & Sparge Water calculations in beersmith
> Feel free to use and abuse B)
> 
> 
> Grainfather Equipment Profile
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grainfather Profile.bsmx


Finally got around to installing this profile last night (but not yet tested it or anything). 

When doing that, I noticed that Beersmith now includes a setting for adding whirlpool time into your IBU calculations. For Grainfather brewers this is particularly useful because at the end of the boil you would normally recirc through the chiller for 10 minutes to sanitise the chiller. It's also useful just generally for late hops additions. 

It calculates how many IBU you might get from whatever hops are still in the kettle while the temperature remains above 85C.

So I set that to 10 mins.


----------



## BKBrews

Did my 2nd GF batch today and it went pretty well. Went for something simple just to get another brew under my belt and increase the experience. Went with 5kg MO with Chinook hops at 5g FWH, 20g 10min, 35g 5min, 40g flameout.

Shaved some time off my brew day, but still took about 6 hours start to finish (including shifting my equipment around and up and down stairs).

Issues:
- grain crush was wrong. Ended up with a tonne of grain matter in the boil (I was freaking out).
- finally had the ball valve issue. Just removed it and away we go. Probably won't put it back in.
- I seemed to have transferred cold break to the fermenter? Not an awful lot but there's definitely some sitting in the bottom. Used a whirfloc this time - anyone else had that issue? I didn't whirlpool this time either
- feel like I might not have got the most out of the hops. They were in a very compact pile at the bottom of the machine when I'd transferred all of the wort. Some of it even seemed a bit dry. I used Crosby Farms Chinook. We'll see I guess!

Things I did better:
- put the chiller on a stool next to the machine. Cooled quicker without the lid holding the heat in.
- cleaned all malt pipe components during the boil, made the entire clean so much easier.
- remembered to re-hydrate the yeast! Haha

So I've got it fermenting at 20 degrees this time, as my IPA that was fermenting at 18 degrees has dropped from 1.062 to 1.014, so I figured 20 degrees for the next week to let it finish will be good. Still within the recommended range for US-05 so I'm not worried. Good to know 2 30L fermenters fit in the fridge though!


----------



## doctr-dan

Also did my second brew on Friday, this what it looked like goin into the fermenter


----------



## BKBrews

doctr-dan said:


> Also did my second brew on Friday, this what it looked like goin into the fermenter
> 
> 
> 
> image.jpg


That looks like cold break too. I didn't get anywhere near that much (only noticed that I transferred some at the end). Did you use a whirfloc tablet or anything? I had no trouble the first brew without the tablet - I could see all of the cold break at the bottom of the kettle. This time.... Nothing, but not much transferred at all.


----------



## Neuthirteen

Hey guys fairly new to the site, I am now in the process of mashing a Guinness clone. Silly me forgot to put the hop catcher back in, anyone think it's worth transferring liquid out to put it in or should I hop sock and hope for the best?

It's light on hope about 50g and I never though that catcher did all too much anyway.


----------



## doctr-dan

BKBrews said:


> That looks like cold break too. I didn't get anywhere near that much (only noticed that I transferred some at the end). Did you use a whirfloc tablet or anything? I had no trouble the first brew without the tablet - I could see all of the cold break at the bottom of the kettle. This time.... Nothing, but not much transferred at all.


Last time I used a whirfloc and I had the same thing, this time I used a deltafloc tablet with the same result, I don't know if they are the same thing it's just what was supplied.
I thought it was just crap from the grains getting through, but I don't know a lot.
I will look up,cold break now


----------



## BKBrews

doctr-dan said:


> Last time I used a whirfloc and I had the same thing, this time I used a deltafloc tablet with the same result, I don't know if they are the same thing it's just what was supplied.
> I thought it was just crap from the grains getting through, but I don't know a lot.
> I will look up,cold break now


This time I didn't whirlpool, I just added my flameout hops and started cooling after 15min. Last time I whirlpooled for about 5min and those white 'clouds' you see in your fermenter were sitting at the bottom of the kettle on a pile. I think the GF still benefits from a whirlpool.


----------



## Killer Brew

I wouldn't be concerned with the cold break guys. Ideally you could remove some but yeast also need some. More of a concern in bigger operations I believe where they run it out of the cone.


----------



## wildwhitty

Whirlpooling leaves a cone of hops in the center and the filter clear.


----------



## welly2

Exile said:


> I have finally dialed in my Grainfather equipment profile and the Mash & Sparge Water calculations in beersmith
> Feel free to use and abuse B)
> 
> 
> Grainfather Equipment Profile
> 
> 
> 
> Grainfather Profile.bsmx
> 
> Mash Profiles
> 
> 
> 
> Full Body Mash.bsmx
> 
> 
> 
> Medium Body Mash.bsmx
> 
> 
> 
> Light Body Mash.bsmx


This is brilliant and pretty close. I'm finding the mash water is spot on but the sparge is about a litre too high. The grainfather calc says for a 23L batch with 4.5kg of grain and 60 minute boil, the mash water should be 15.65L and sparge water 15.95L but this profile is showing 15.65L for mash water (bang on) and 16.86L for sparge water. I'm going to test it with a few different amounts of grain and see if that roughly 1L margin is the same throughout and can just adjust for it. But other than that, nice job. Thank you!


----------



## BKBrews

> This is brilliant and pretty close. I'm finding the mash water is spot on but the sparge is about a litre too high. The grainfather calc says for a 23L batch with 4.5kg of grain and 60 minute boil, the mash water should be 15.65L and sparge water 15.95L but this profile is showing 15.65L for mash water (bang on) and 16.86L for sparge water. I'm going to test it with a few different amounts of grain and see if that roughly 1L margin is the same throughout and can just adjust for it. But other than that, nice job. Thank you!


I've got my profile to a point that I manually enter the mash water number (according to the GF calc) and then beersmith automatically calculates the sparge water number, which is normally roughly 0.2L higher than the GF calc.

For example, I did a 5kg SMASH last weekend which the GF calculator stated needs 17L mash and 15L sparge. Once I put the 17L mash water into beersmith, it spat out a sparge of 15.17L. works for me!


----------



## nfragol

What version of Beersmith are you using ?

With the latest version (2.3.7) my profile gives me exactly the volumes calculated by the online grainfather calculator.

Thats either using a 60 or a 90 boil.


----------



## welly2

nfragol said:


> What version of Beersmith are you using ?
> 
> With the latest version (2.3.7) my profile gives me exactly the volumes calculated by the online grainfather calculator.
> 
> Thats either using a 60 or a 90 boil.


Same version. 2.3.7. See attached.

View attachment Bitter.bsmx


----------



## paulyman

welly2 said:


> This is brilliant and pretty close. I'm finding the mash water is spot on but the sparge is about a litre too high. The grainfather calc says for a 23L batch with 4.5kg of grain and 60 minute boil, the mash water should be 15.65L and sparge water 15.95L but this profile is showing 15.65L for mash water (bang on) and 16.86L for sparge water. I'm going to test it with a few different amounts of grain and see if that roughly 1L margin is the same throughout and can just adjust for it. But other than that, nice job. Thank you!


I had a play around and the sparge water was consistently out by pretty well 1L for many different grain bills I put in. As I said earlier in the topic both the scales on the GF and the GF Urn are only accurate to 1L, so to me it's not a big deal.


----------



## nfragol

welly2 said:


> Same version. 2.3.7. See attached.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bitter.bsmx



Actually, all you have to do is set the mush tun addition to 3.5 or 3.7 (i am at work and cant remember the exact number) for the grainfather deadspace.

Have you changed the grain absorption rate in the advance settings tab ?

I will take a look at your profile when i get home from work.


----------



## nfragol

welly2 said:


> Same version. 2.3.7. See attached.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bitter.bsmx


@welly2

According to beersmith on my pc your profile is correct and gives me exact mash and sparge volumes.
(although i don't have "Adjust mash vol for losses" ticked).

Have you changed the grain absorption in the advanced settings tab to 0,7669 fl oz from 0,96 ?


----------



## welly2

nfragol said:


> @welly2
> 
> According to beersmith on my pc your profile is correct and gives me exact mash and sparge volumes.
> (although i don't have "Adjust mash vol for losses" ticked).
> 
> Have you changed the grain absorption in the advanced settings tab to 0,7669 fl oz from 0,96 ?


I'll have a look when I get home, thanks for checking in to it though!


----------



## welly2

nfragol said:


> @welly2
> 
> According to beersmith on my pc your profile is correct and gives me exact mash and sparge volumes.
> (although i don't have "Adjust mash vol for losses" ticked).
> 
> Have you changed the grain absorption in the advanced settings tab to 0,7669 fl oz from 0,96 ?


Just checked it on my work computer, that did the trick! It's absolutely bang on now. Thanks very much. This profile should go back to the developer of Beersmith to include with the software.


----------



## Exile

Sorry welly2, nfragol is right I should of added that to the comments section of my post.


----------



## A.B.

Anyone with a Grainfather and a Mini mill with fluted rollers ? If so what size gap are you using?


----------



## Chridech

A.B. said:


> Anyone with a Grainfather and a Mini mill with fluted rollers ? If so what size gap are you using?


Have the same set-up. Settled on 0.9mm for all Barley grists. Mash Efficiency varies between 75 and 82%, usually dependent on the grain weight. Haven't had a stuck sparge yet. Happy with the consistency and balance between efficiency and ease of sparging.


----------



## A.B.

Thanks. I had set my mill up at 0.9 for its first use tomorrow, so it's good to get confirmation


----------



## BKBrews

So it's happened to me again.... I keep getting stuck ferments and I don't know why. My IPA has stalled at 1.016 (starting gravity 1.064) and it's been in primary for 2 weeks. I had it at 18 degrees for 1 week, 20 degrees for about 4 days, then added a new brew to the fridge so dropped back to 19 degrees. Could it have anything to do with the wort temp when I pitched the yeast?


----------



## Reedy

BKBrews said:


> So it's happened to me again.... I keep getting stuck ferments and I don't know why. My IPA has stalled at 1.016 (starting gravity 1.064) and it's been in primary for 2 weeks. I had it at 18 degrees for 1 week, 20 degrees for about 4 days, then added a new brew to the fridge so dropped back to 19 degrees. Could it have anything to do with the wort temp when I pitched the yeast?


It might well be finished based on your OG. What yeast did you use? What was your target FG?


----------



## BKBrews

I'll have to check my recipe sheet (can't find it), but the expected FG was around 1.012 using US-05.

EDIT: Expected SG was 1.065 and expected FG was 1.013.


----------



## Reedy

At 75% apparent attenuation, it's probably a little on the low side for US-05 (should be around 81% based on the Fermentis website). 

I generally rehydrate US-05 and ferment at 18c for 14 days before I take a reading, never had an issue with a stalled ferment on this basis.


----------



## doctr-dan

Coming from someone who has no idea I would say it's finished when your starting OG was that high.
Also I spoke to a brewery and the head brewer said US-05 works best at around 20 something I can't remember exactly it was like 20.75 or something like that, very specific none the less but definately not 18 which I had always done.


----------



## BKBrews

This batch I stuffed up a little, in the fact that when I went to rehydrate my yeast I found some bits of stuff in my boiled (and cooled) water. I panicked and pitched 2 packets directly into the wort dry. 3 points isn't that bad I guess, I had 1.010 in my head for some reason. I'll probably leave it another week and cold crash next weekend to bottle.


----------



## welly2

Had a good brew day today. Used my new carbon filter, measured out water additions using Bru'n water to get the right ph (came in at 5.3 more or less bang on), efficiency was spot on. Ended up with a 88.2% mash efficiency and 78.3% brew house efficiency. I'm pretty chuffed with that. If I can get that every time, I'm going to be content. Exile's GF profile for beersmith was bang on. Well happy. I can retire Grainfather's calculators.


----------



## A.B.

I too had a good brew day, although it was interrupted by work on-call for 3hrs, and then some bricklaying, I managed to turn out a nice looking American IPA, just about to finish the boil and add a heap of Citra, Cascade, Chinook. Did have a minor fuckup with my mill motor, so had to quickly fabricate a handle, but that should be fixed by next brewday.


----------



## carniebrew

BKBrews said:


> So it's happened to me again.... I keep getting stuck ferments and I don't know why. My IPA has stalled at 1.016 (starting gravity 1.064) and it's been in primary for 2 weeks. I had it at 18 degrees for 1 week, 20 degrees for about 4 days, then added a new brew to the fridge so dropped back to 19 degrees. Could it have anything to do with the wort temp when I pitched the yeast?


Mate, nothing to worry about if you have a 1064 beer finish at 1016, that's quite normal. If you want to get it lower next time then just drop your mash temp by 1 or 2 degrees. But if it's stable now at 1016 then she's ready to go.


----------



## paulyman

The grainfather online calculator is gone... It just brings up a page not found error, so good job we have a beersmith profile sorted...


----------



## kaiserben

There's a new website. Just get rid of the .au 

EDIT: Here's the full link.


----------



## paulyman

kaiserben said:


> There's a new website. Just get rid of the .au
> 
> EDIT: Here's the full link.


Cheers that did the trick. They changed it quick, was working on the weekend and confused me today on my phone.


----------



## wambesi

Once the new app is released you won't need to go to the web site. Calculators are built into it.


----------



## fletcher

has anyone adjusted the temperature differential setting on the STC200 with success? at the moment, i want to reduce the temperature 'swing' during the mash, and have my element heat the mash again when it gets to 1c below mash temp (not 2c). 

will this cause more wear potentially if the element is being switched on more? any success stories? don't do it?

help!


----------



## fletcher

no one done this?


----------



## A.B.

Don't think the 200 can do that without being hacked...


----------



## Coodgee

One drawback of the grainfather is that you can't easily monitor gravity, pH etc of the sparge runnings going into the kettle. With a 3V system you can measure these things as the runnings are coming out of the mash tun. There are reasons why a brewer might want to control how much sparge runnings are collected. One might want to maximise efficiency or stop sparging once runnings reach a low enough gravity. More generally it puts the brewer more in control of the process rather than just hoping and assuming that the amount of sparge runnings collected is appropriate for a particular brew. 

You could put a collection plate between the malt pipe and grainfather boiler, with a tap on the side and a hose running into the main body. You could also add a second smaller tap to take readings for a refractometer or pH meter. I have done a rough sketch in MS paint to illustrate the idea. 

I wonder how much it would cost to get something like this made up? It wouldn't necessarily need to be cylindrical. You could use a rectangular or square collection plate as long as the length and width dimensions were more than twice the radius of the grainfather opening. I am thinking I might even be able to modify a really big drip tray to do this.


----------



## paulyman

Coodgee said:


> One drawback of the grainfather is that you can't easily monitor gravity, pH etc of the sparge runnings going into the kettle. With a 3V system you can measure these things as the runnings are coming out of the mash tun. There are reasons why a brewer might want to control how much sparge runnings are collected. One might want to maximise efficiency or stop sparging once runnings reach a low enough gravity. More generally it puts the brewer more in control of the process rather than just hoping and assuming that the amount of sparge runnings collected is appropriate for a particular brew.
> 
> You could put a collection plate between the malt pipe and grainfather boiler, with a tap on the side and a hose running into the main body. You could also add a second smaller tap to take readings for a refractometer or pH meter. I have done a rough sketch in MS paint to illustrate the idea.
> 
> I wonder how much it would cost to get something like this made up? It wouldn't necessarily need to be cylindrical. You could use a rectangular or square collection plate as long as the length and width dimensions were more than twice the radius of the grainfather opening. I am thinking I might even be able to modify a really big drip tray to do this.


That would also reduce the dripping you currently get into the boiler making it more LODO compliant. Interesting.


----------



## mb547

I hope this is the correct place to post. If not please delete. 
I am just about to buy a grainfather and was wondering what is the best price out there? And which supplier is offering the most free extras? 
Would like to get the most for my money. 
Thank you in advance.


----------



## mb547

I hope this is the correct place to post. If not please delete. 
I am just about to buy a grainfather and was wondering what is the best price out there? And which supplier is offering the most free extras? 
Would like to get the most for my money. 
Thank you in advance.


----------



## BKBrews

mb547 said:


> I hope this is the correct place to post. If not please delete.
> I am just about to buy a grainfather and was wondering what is the best price out there? And which supplier is offering the most free extras?
> Would like to get the most for my money.
> Thank you in advance.


I bought mine from cheeky peak for $995 + $15 shipping (not sure if they still do that shipping deal). By far the cheapest I could find. It's worth noting a new model will be released in the next few months which adds about $200 to the current RRP. I was also told mine is the latest model, but I think I got the older style chiller, which is apparently better anyway.


----------



## wambesi

But whether you purchase now and upgrade the controller later or wait and buy it together you will pay the same amount.


----------



## mb547

Thats the cheapest I've seen so far! I'll definitely get the upgrade which is why I am buying now as I don't expect any new units to be on a discount. Might save me a couple of hundred that will pay for an urn.


----------



## 5150

I normally hunt around forever looking for the very best deal I can possibly find, but last week I bought a grainfather and decided that service was worth the small extra cost. I bought mine from Martin from National Home. He has done a lot of work on the grainfather and I can tell you the service was second to none. I ordered it on Tuesday morning and I had it on Thursday afternoon. 

Just my 2c.


----------



## A.B.

I paid $950 for mine from my local home brew shop, haggled them down as I know they had it on the shelf for at last 6 months.


----------



## BKBrews

5150 said:


> I normally hunt around forever looking for the very best deal I can possibly find, but last week I bought a grainfather and decided that service was worth the small extra cost. I bought mine from Martin from National Home. He has done a lot of work on the grainfather and I can tell you the service was second to none. I ordered it on Tuesday morning and I had it on Thursday afternoon.
> 
> Just my 2c.


I definitely like buying my grain from these guys because yes, they know the grainfather well and their crush is perfect for it. Not to mention that they bag your recipes and flush with CO2. I was already pushing my budget as it was, so I opted for the cheapest GF deal I could find. I have bought a fair bit from cheeky peak now though and find them to be pretty good too.


----------



## Killer Brew

I found the Cheeky Peak crush far coarser than my LHBS in Adel. Efficiency plummeted by around 10%.


----------



## Mattrox

Killer Brew said:


> I found the Cheeky Peak crush far coarser than my LHBS in Adel. Efficiency plummeted by around 10%.


Who do you use in Adelaide? What efficiency are you getting?


----------



## BKBrews

Killer Brew said:


> I found the Cheeky Peak crush far coarser than my LHBS in Adel. Efficiency plummeted by around 10%.


Just to be clear, I was referring to National Homebrew when I said I like buying grain there. Cheeky Peak was the first place I bought grain, but that was before the GF and while I was using BIAB.


----------



## BrewJitsu

Mattrox said:


> Who do you use in Adelaide? What efficiency are you getting?


I use brewadelaide.com. I tried the other main brew shop but found I was getting stuck mashes and burn on the bottom (how ever my mate uses them and gets good results so maybe they have gotten the crush right since I used them). Brew Adelaide deliver to my door for free their pricing when you buy the grain book and order that way are the best in town and I just ask for my grainfather crush and it's always perfect. Efficiency via the Grainfather web site tool always shows mid 80's which I am happy with.


----------



## Mattrox

Does anyone have a 25L recipe in the cloud with a profile that has the mash and sparge volumes correct?

Trying to get the sparge correct in the mobile app and I can't. The mash volume I have got correct though.


----------



## Killer Brew

Mattrox said:


> Who do you use in Adelaide? What efficiency are you getting?


Using Beer Belly here. Consistently getting around 75% - 80%. Prices competitive and flat rate delivery works for me given they are the other side of town. 

* no association etc etc


----------



## Mattrox

For those who use the mobile Beersmith app (and are pedantic :lol: ), I just got the Sparge and Mash volumes to be exactly what the GF website's calculator says it should be for most recipes. I am like 10 or 20 mL as grain bills change.

I set grain absorbtion in Options: Advanced Options: Grain Absorption: 0.7680

In Profiles: Equipment I set the Grainfather profile to the recommended:
Mash Tun Volume: 30.00L
Mash Tun Weight: 4.0 kg
Tun Specific Heat: 0.12
Tun Deadspace: 3.50
ticked the Adjust mash vol for deadspace box.
Kettle Top up: 3.50
Calculate Boil Volume Automatically box is unticked
Boil Volume: 28.00 L
Boil Time: 60
Boil Off: 2.0 L
ticked the Use boil off as hourly rate box
Cooling Shrinkage 4%

Then in Mash Profiles:
For example: Temperature Mash, 1 step, Medium Body 
In Mash Steps select the 1st step, in this case Saccharification, set the Water/Grain Ratio 2.70
and make sure under Mash Properties don't mess with the grain basis of 4.54kg I tried to make it a more accurate rounding of 10lbs, but 4.54 is accurate enough and it doesn't change very much.

Make sure the water/grain ratio is 2.70 in the 1st step for mash in on any profile you edit.

Most of that info can be found around the web but not all in the same place and not specifically for the mobile app.


----------



## Exile

My grainfather has a sight glass now


----------



## kaiserben

Today I finally got around to replacing parts with the upgrade kit (pipework etc) 

So to those who had the old Grainfather, what is better:

The old or new filter?
Keep or remove ball and spring?


----------



## Mattrox

kaiserben said:


> Today I finally got around to replacing parts with the upgrade kit (pipework etc)
> 
> So to those who had the old Grainfather, what is better:
> 
> The old or new filter?
> Keep or remove ball and spring?


Remove ball spring, unless you are prone to removing bits with the pump on.

I only have the new filter. Haven't had problems.


----------



## Beppe

Hello guys i'm finding that my beers with granfaither are cloudy and do not understand where i'm wrong,first cooled cooked must with immersion coil and hai ad no problem now with counter flow supplied to the pot always clodi beer,al control ph always,use for yeast nutrients,it aslo happens to you?I can not understand the problem


----------



## Killer Brew

I'm trying to think if I need this upgrade or not. Staying close to my brew to adjust temps at different stages doesn't bother me, I feel like it is part of the process. Is that the only advantage I would get?


----------



## Coodgee

I think the upgrade will be worth it for me. I didn't think so initially. But refining and automating some of the steps, as well as prompting me to not forget things like the whirlfloc should result in a more consistent product


----------



## A.B.

I have to monitor mine the whole way, except for the boil, so the hands off ideas that the new controller provides doesn't grab me


----------



## HBHB

Beppe said:


> Hello guys i'm finding that my beers with granfaither are cloudy and do not understand where i'm wrong,first cooled cooked must with immersion coil and hai ad no problem now with counter flow supplied to the pot always clodi beer,al control ph always,use for yeast nutrients,it aslo happens to you?I can not understand the problem


Start with looking at the recipe formulation on what malts are used, how they are milled. - if too fine, then the grain bed may be overly compacted and all wort is running through the overflow pipe without getting good filtration.
couple of points to start with.



Killer Brew said:


> I'm trying to think if I need this upgrade or not. Staying close to my brew to adjust temps at different stages doesn't bother me, I feel like it is part of the process. Is that the only advantage I would get?


Sorry KB, I try to avoid bumping our threads on the sponsors pages as much as possible.

Thanks Brad for moving this to here.

The new controller has Bluetooth interaction with your smart phone or tablet etc, so you can be away from the brew and still see what's going on. preprogramming step mashes and the use of PID algorithm means step mashing is more reliable allowing for overshoot etc. App works with any beer design program running export capability in beer.xml format, so Beersmith etc all work with it. App runs alarms and timers as well as a sparge water counter etc so you can be ready to brew before the first coffee of the day is made. or be ready to brew when you arrive home from work etc. (personally, I like waking up to the clatter of Karen making a beer out in the bar area, so this may be a disadvantage in our household)

There's lots to be said for the new controller, it's just a matter of guys/girls deciding whether they want that level of functionality. Maybe not for some folk, but think it'll have a wide appeal.

Hope that helps.
Martin


----------



## welly2

Beppe said:


> Hello guys i'm finding that my beers with granfaither are cloudy and do not understand where i'm wrong,first cooled cooked must with immersion coil and hai ad no problem now with counter flow supplied to the pot always clodi beer,al control ph always,use for yeast nutrients,it aslo happens to you?I can not understand the problem


This comment reads like you were getting drunker and drunker by the second.


----------



## Chridech

welly2 said:


> This comment reads like you were getting drunker and drunker by the second.


Google translator of its face again!


----------



## welly2

Just installed my STC-1000 with the flashed firmware into my Grainfather. It took a little bit of pissing about and I'm not entirely sure if it's quite set up properly but I'll do a test later. You've got to set it to Mash for it to run and leave the heating element set to Normal rather than Mash. I'm still figuring out how it works but I'm getting there. I'll make a video on how it works for those who are thinking about getting one.

I bought a pre-flashed and set up STC-1000 from a guy off eBay. Nice fella, easy to deal with. Cost me $55 and comes with an Arduino which you can use to flash the STC-1000. Actually programming it on the device itself rather than using the editor (http://matsstaff.github.io/stc1000p/profile/hextabbed.html) is not really that tricky. I'm planning on using this for a while before I upgrade to the new Grainfather controller - I want to see it in use on other people's Grainfather before I decide if it's worth the upgrade (I'm sure it is) and then I'll probably reflash this to use as a fermentation fridge controller for stepped timings.


----------



## kaiserben

welly2 said:


> Just installed my STC-1000 with the flashed firmware into my Grainfather. ...


I've been using one (that I flashed myself) for quite a while now, and it's great. I doubt I'll spend the $200 to buy the new GF controller. It'd be nice to have the bluetooth connectivity with my phone, but that won't improve my beer. It's very easy to program multiple steps and alarms using the STC1000+. (it only takes me a minute or so before each brew). 

If I hadn't done this upgrade to flashed STC1000 then I'd definitely be getting the new GF controller.


----------



## welly2

kaiserben said:


> I've been using one (that I flashed myself) for quite a while now, and it's great. I doubt I'll spend the $200 to buy the new GF controller. It'd be nice to have the bluetooth connectivity with my phone, but that won't improve my beer. It's very easy to program multiple steps and alarms using the STC1000+. (it only takes me a minute or so before each brew).
> 
> If I hadn't done this upgrade to flashed STC1000 then I'd definitely be getting the new GF controller.


I'm sure I'll figure it out properly but there's a few things that I'm finding a bit confusing. So what I can see to get the thing to run is you click on S, go to Run and then select Pr and press S. If you then press the power button, that seems to get the actual program starting. Is this correct or have I missed anything?

Could you possibly go over the steps you take to set a program and get it going?

Cheers!


----------



## kaiserben

Yeah - once you've programmed it how you want it, you go to "run" and select "Pr" to run what you've programmed. 

Most of the parameters won't need to be changed, or won't need to be changed after you set it up the first time. 

Setting it up first time you click on "S" and then use the arrows to cycle through the menu items. 

Menu item
Sd = Strike delay (set to zero, unless you want set it up to start heating later on - up to 999 mins later on). 
St = Strike temp (the temp you want the water to be when you add your grains) 
SO = Strike output (this is how often your element stays on as a percentage. Leave at 100)
Pt1 = Mash Step 1 temp
Pd1 = Mash step 1 duration 
Pt2
Pd2
Pt3
Pd3
Pt4
Pd4
Pt5
Pd5
Pt6
Pd6
PO = Mashing output (% of how often your element is on), which I've set at 25. 
Ht = Hot Break Temp (97) 
HO = Hot Break Output (60) 
Hd = Hotbreak Duration (10) 
bO = Boil Output (100) 
bd = Boil duration 
hd1 = Hop alarm 1
hd2
hd3
hd4
tc = temperature correction (pretty sure this is for if your probe is slightly out) 
APF = Set this to 511 so that all the alarms are enabled. 
PF = This is for pump control (which is not something you need to worry about with a simple STC1000+ flash set up. Leave as 31. 
Pd = Heating period interval. I've set this to 5 (seconds) and am happy with that. This is how often the element switches on/off when the output is at anything other than 100%. 
cO = Manual mode output (80). Never use it. 
cP = Manual mode pump (0). 
cSP = Manual mode thermostat setpoint (0). 
ASd = Safety shutdown timer (number of minutes before it switches itself off if you've failed to acknowledge an alarm or other step requiring your attention). 100 is good. 
rUn = select Pr when you want to start what you've programmed.


----------



## kaiserben

And once you've set it up that first time, all you really need to change from brew to brew are: 

I'll occasionally change my strike water temperature (*St*) depending on the first mash step temp in my recipe. 

Then change my mash step temps and times: 

*Pt1*
*Pd1*
*Pt2*
*Pd2*
*Pt3*
*Pd3*
*Pt4*
*Pd4*
*Pt5*
*Pd5*
*Pt6*
*Pd6*

and boil/hop alarm settings. 

*bd* = boil duration (I change between 60 and 90 minute boils depending on recipe) 
and your hop alarms - depending on what minute additions my recipes have. I also use one of these for whirfloc addition (if I don't already have a hop addition at the same time). 
*hd1*
*hd2*
*hd3*
*hd4*

And if you find you don't need as many steps as are available, just set the duration to zero. 

And that's it. It's much easier than these long explanations make it look.


----------



## welly2

Great stuff, thanks very much!


----------



## paulyman

Anyone else had issues with getting to the boil? I've noticed in the last few brews that it takes well over an hour to rise from the 90 that it gets to during the sparge and a rolling boil! I'm sure It hasn't taken that long in the past. Once it's there it's fine and I get the same boil off rate as I always have.


----------



## HBHB

Not sure i'm getting that right Paulyman....90 at end of sparge? then > than an hr to the boil? couple of things, if you're using a cheap arse light weight power cord then you might not have full power capability. Also, If you've got a sparky mate, get him to look at the power supply to see if you're getting full power to the unit. Got to be something wrong to get those ramp times. Look at the simplest ones to fix first.


----------



## kaiserben

Speaking of simple ... There's a chance (and I've done this before, but don't judge me h34r: ) that he's accidentally flicked the 'element variation' switch near the base of the unit so that it's on 'mash' instead of 'normal'. Or forgotten to flick it. Or something like that.


----------



## paulyman

Sorry I should have said it gets to 90 after the sparge but while the basket is still draining. But yeah the last few times it takes an hour to get to the boil from 90. I make sure the Variation switch is on normal, give the bottom a good careful clean with the mash paddle to remove any crud from over the element. I am getting my sparky to put a seperate circuit outside under the carport for my brewing maybe that will help as You said Martin as I won't need a long extension lead.


----------



## HBHB

paulyman said:


> Sorry I should have said it gets to 90 after the sparge but while the basket is still draining. But yeah the last few times it takes an hour to get to the boil from 90. I make sure the Variation switch is on normal, give the bottom a good careful clean with the mash paddle to remove any crud from over the element. I am getting my sparky to put a seperate circuit outside under the carport for my brewing maybe that will help as You said Martin as I won't need a long extension lead.


Yeah we had a local brewer with a Crown urn running a cheapy white Bunnings lead that used to get hot during the boil and took forever to actually get there. that was part of the problem, but after using a HD one still had issues, so he got a sparky mate to check the wiring (1960's house) and there was problems there too. Was apparently not getting full power - an easy fix with a happy ending.


----------



## paulyman

As an update i cleaned the unit after my brew today and used the reset switch on the bottom of the unit to see if that might help. Then I added 28L of water at 22C. Switched to mash on the normal setting with the lid on and checked on it at various times on its ramp to 78. Spot on 0.92C/min. Which is what I'd expect and is inline with all my brews with the unit. Was a little out on the trip from 78 to 90, it was at 88 just ticking over to 89 when I checked it at the predicted time, so pretty close. Took the lid off, as I bring a brew to the boil after sparging and removing the basket, without the lid. Time from 90 to rolling boil was 33 minutes exactly and it was a fairly even time for each degree rise in temperature.

I'm now racking my brain and thinking have I always brought it to the boil without the lid on? Could it be that simple? Will try and test ramp time from 90 to the HH warning with the lid on to compare times.

Edit - then I'll run the stopwatch again next brew from 90 to the HH alarm to compare timings.


----------



## BKBrews

My last brew took bloody forever to hit the boil, which I also thought was different to the norm. It actually got to 88 and for some unknown reason dropped back to 83 before ramping back up. 90 - 100 took at least half an hour. I'm going to give the element good scrub before next use - just wondering whether it powers on and off with a bit of that build up on it, but not enough to trip it into needing a reset.

On another note, has anyone bought the micro pipework? I think I'm going to get it as I want to do some full batches of some Session beers. I've found 4.5kg is the absolute minimum you can put in the standard pipework to still have the top plate and overflow in place and at 4.5kg with the efficiency I'm getting, that doesn't really allow too many beers under 5% ABV.


----------



## paulyman

BKBrews said:


> My last brew took bloody forever to hit the boil, which I also thought was different to the norm. It actually got to 88 and for some unknown reason dropped back to 83 before ramping back up. 90 - 100 took at least half an hour. I'm going to give the element good scrub before next use - just wondering whether it powers on and off with a bit of that build up on it, but not enough to trip it into needing a reset.
> 
> .


That describes my last few brew days almost exactly. Haven't noticed it lose temp but until my test this afternoon I haven't sat over it to check if that is happening.


----------



## Coldspace

I've found especially when double batching or big grav boils , the malt can coat the element at the bottom causing inefficient heating, after sparge, I've been using my long stainless mash paddle to carefully scrap the bottom of the gf carefully not knocking the filter attachment off. It seems to work a little faster then.

I also just swing in my over the side immersion heater I've had since my bucket of death days, 4400 watts of heat cranks it up to full boil from 88 in no time, especially when I'm double batching in it and it's up near 32 ltrs. Once boiling take immersion heater out and the gf element holds it good from then on.

This saves me like 30 mins each time as I can crank the mash in water up in like 10 mins.

This extra heating can save me over 40 mins on brew days. You can buy them for about 80 bucks on evilbay.

You just need to run the immersion element from another circuit in your house.


----------



## Killer Brew

I put the lid on after sparge to speed it to boil. Makes a big difference.


----------



## kaiserben

You guys know the saying: A watched pot never boils? 

I replaced my GF controller with a flashed STC1000, so I no longer need to keep checking (and fretting) about it reaching the boil. I just need to be within earshot (for when it sounds an alarm to let me know to add my first hop addition). 

I'm sure the fancy new GF controller will do likewise. 

I always give the base a scrape when ever I happen to walk past (but more particularly once it reaches around the 90C mark).


----------



## HBHB

kaiserben said:


> You guys know the saying: A watched pot never boils?
> 
> I replaced my GF controller with a flashed STC1000, so I no longer need to keep checking (and fretting) about it reaching the boil. I just need to be within earshot (for when it sounds an alarm to let me know to add my first hop addition).
> 
> I'm sure the fancy new GF controller will do likewise.
> 
> I always give the base a scrape when ever I happen to walk past (but more particularly once it reaches around the 90C mark).


how does the stc1000 make a difference when it's by-passed for the boil? Or have you got it wired to achieve 100 deg and have the elements wired through it?


----------



## kaiserben

HBHB said:


> how does the stc1000 make a difference when it's by-passed for the boil? Or have you got it wired to achieve 100 deg and have the elements wired through it?


It's never bypassed; The switch on the control panel (the one where you can select either Boil, Off, or Mash) just stays on Mash all the time (with the element variation switch at the based of the unit always set to 'Normal'). What I program into the STC1000 is always in control (even during the boil, when the program has the element running at a 'Boil Output' of 100%, which is essentially the same as if you'd flicked the switch to boil). 

The program let's you determine the element output as a percentage depending on what stage of the program it's at. So I've got it as 100% for any time it's heating or boiling, and at 25% when holding a mash step temp (basically that means it's switching the element on & off, and that it's on 25% of the time). 

There's also a Hot Break pause, where (I'm still trying to find the best settings for this) I've got it set to hold at 97C for 10 minutes with an element output of 60%. This step is to help avoid boil over. 

EDIT: So yeah, I suppose the shorter answer is that the elements are wired through it. I took the original STC200 out of the GF controller box and replaced it with the flashed STC1000.


----------



## HBHB

kaiserben said:


> This step is to help avoid boil over.


Bugger that. 1/2 ml of FermCap AT and forget about it. :super:


----------



## hodges4

Is there any word yet on when the Grainfather Connect will be available in Australia.


----------



## fishingbrad

Spoke to one of the brissy reps last week. said they found an issue with the app and would not release the product with bugs (they knew of). He said should be middle this month.


----------



## hodges4

Thanks Brad


----------



## Futur

The new grainfather connect controller is available for order and in stock on the Australian website. 

https://www.grainfather.com/shop/grainfather/connect-control-box.html


----------



## HBHB

hodges4 said:


> Is there any word yet on when the Grainfather Connect will be available in Australia.


Stocks are rolling out now. Some stores already have them


----------



## wambesi

fishingbrad said:


> Spoke to one of the brissy reps last week. said they found an issue with the app and would not release the product with bugs (they knew of). He said should be middle this month.


One of us? There's just me 

As Martin said, we've decided to release the controller without the Android app for now - as an Android user I would have preferred not to but sometimes things just need to be done (or not done).


----------



## Futur

wambesi said:


> One of us? There's just me
> 
> As Martin said, we've decided to release the controller without the Android app for now - as an Android user I would have preferred not to but sometimes things just need to be done (or not done).


Personally I think it's the right choice. I've ordered one and have an android device and know the quality of the apps out there so am confident it will do as advertised when released.


----------



## BKBrews

I'm boiling water in preparation for my brew day tomorrow.... has taken 40min to go from 30 degrees to 70 and from 70 - 73 has taken nearly 10min. I'm getting pretty over it!!


----------



## paulyman

Have you got it set on normal or mash? I have mine on normal for most things and only switch to mash during a mash. After sitting and watching it the other day it rises at pretty well 0.9 degrees a minute which fits your first rise perfectly. Your slow rise from 70 though sounds exactly like my issue post 90. I am still unsure if it really is an extension cord issue, an element issue or the controller.

I unfortunately won't get a chance to brew again for a few weeks to run more tests. On the plus side I should have the new controller by then so can instantly eliminate one of those variables. Will also have my electrician adding in a dedicated brewing circuit or two for me when I get him in for the kitchen Reno in the new year. So that will eliminate another variable.

With the new controller I have a feeling I won't actually care about the delay anymore to be honest. I can do other things and keep an eye on it from the app. The ability to set a delayed start will be even better! Can't wait.


----------



## BKBrews

paulyman said:


> Have you got it set on normal or mash? I have mine on normal for most things and only switch to mash during a mash. After sitting and watching it the other day it rises at pretty well 0.9 degrees a minute which fits your first rise perfectly. Your slow rise from 70 though sounds exactly like my issue post 90. I am still unsure if it really is an extension cord issue, an element issue or the controller.
> 
> I unfortunately won't get a chance to brew again for a few weeks to run more tests. On the plus side I should have the new controller by then so can instantly eliminate one of those variables. Will also have my electrician adding in a dedicated brewing circuit or two for me when I get him in for the kitchen Reno in the new year. So that will eliminate another variable.
> 
> With the new controller I have a feeling I won't actually care about the delay anymore to be honest. I can do other things and keep an eye on it from the app. The ability to set a delayed start will be even better! Can't wait.


Yep, I'm the same as you - pretty much use normal for everything except the 60min period that it's hit the mash temp. I even gave the element a good scrub to remove some of the gunk off it - there wasn't much to begin with. If I thought it might help.

As I type this, it's now at 94 degrees, so it's jumped 21 degrees since my last post.


----------



## BKBrews

Alright, so I completed a brew day this morning and everything went pretty smoothly..

My ramp up temps have improved - I'm going to put it down to giving the element a good scrub with a bit of the grainfather cleaner last night prior to boiling my water for today's brew day. Even if your element looks clean (mine did), give it a scrub. Try and remove everything on it until it looks like new and I reckon your ramp times will improve.

Still having troubles with the shitty leaking chiller, but I'm in contact with a GF rep about that one.

Oh, and seriously heed the warnings on the cleaner label. Try not to get it on your hands. My fingers and nails are absolutely munted from the GF cleaning solution.


----------



## paulyman

Well after I said last night I wouldn't brew again for a few weeks... today I put the lid on once I'd finished the sparge. Took 16 minutes to get from 90 to a boil. That's 0.63 degrees a minute, less than the 0.9 degrees a minute it gets prior to this, but a success. I'll make sure I do that in the future.


----------



## paulyman

Well after I said last night I wouldn't brew again for a few weeks... today I put the lid on once I'd finished the sparge. Took 16 minutes to get from 90 to a boil. That's 0.63 degrees a minute, less than the 0.9 degrees a minute it gets prior to this, but a success. I'll make sure I do that in the future.


----------



## BKBrews

paulyman said:


> Well after I said last night I wouldn't brew again for a few weeks... today I put the lid on once I'd finished the sparge. Took 16 minutes to get from 90 to a boil. That's 0.63 degrees a minute, less than the 0.9 degrees a minute it gets prior to this, but a success. I'll make sure I do that in the future.


I didn't count mine mate, but went pretty fast without the lid on.... I'd definitely try and scrub the element spotlessly clean. What I've noticed from boiling all of my water prior to brew day is that even the most minute spots on the element cause little heat spots - you can see them bubbling away as it heats.


----------



## peteru

I'm considering buying a Grainfather soon - birthday in less than 2 weeks. I've read all 76 pages of this thread, and I still have some questions...

If I try to make a 20L batch of 3.5-4% beer, will I be able to do it without the micro pipework? What is it about the normal pipework that makes it unsuitable for small grain bills?

Is the Grainfather Connect (the only Grainfather available at www.grainfather.com for Australian market) the same physical hardware as the normal Grainfather units that have been shipping for the last couple of weeks / months? Obviously, the controller would be different, but are there any other differences? For example, the element switch on the base does not seem to be necessary any more.

Can the new controller be fully utilised without an app? Can I use the buttons on the control panel to set up mash steps, etc?

Is there more info on how the new controller works?

How about a published API / description of the protocol? If it turns out that the GF Connect controller (or more likely the apps) are not to my liking, I'd like to have the option of interfacing with the new controller. At the end of the day, I would prefer a controller that can connect back to my Linux server and provide data logging. I could build a back end with a web interface for the controller and could then access this from any device, as opposed to having to have just one Android device paired with the controller.

My gut feeling is that the best option is to purchase an "existing recent stock" GF with the STC-200 controller and also order a separate Connect controller upgrade. That way I end up with two controllers for a price similar to (or better than) the new GF Connect. I could then choose to go back to the simple STC-200 or replace the STC-200 in the old controller with a SmartPID.

Any recommendations for GF retailers that have good prices and enough turn over / stock to have a recent model GF available for delivery soon? I don't want to end up with a really old version that needs the other upgrade kits.


----------



## BKBrews

peteru said:


> I'm considering buying a Grainfather soon - birthday in less than 2 weeks. I've read all 76 pages of this thread, and I still have some questions...
> 
> If I try to make a 20L batch of 3.5-4% beer, will I be able to do it without the micro pipework? What is it about the normal pipework that makes it unsuitable for small grain bills?
> 
> Is the Grainfather Connect (the only Grainfather available at www.grainfather.com for Australian market) the same physical hardware as the normal Grainfather units that have been shipping for the last couple of weeks / months? Obviously, the controller would be different, but are there any other differences? For example, the element switch on the base does not seem to be necessary any more.
> 
> Can the new controller be fully utilised without an app? Can I use the buttons on the control panel to set up mash steps, etc?
> 
> Is there more info on how the new controller works?
> 
> How about a published API / description of the protocol? If it turns out that the GF Connect controller (or more likely the apps) are not to my liking, I'd like to have the option of interfacing with the new controller. At the end of the day, I would prefer a controller that can connect back to my Linux server and provide data logging. I could build a back end with a web interface for the controller and could then access this from any device, as opposed to having to have just one Android device paired with the controller.
> 
> My gut feeling is that the best option is to purchase an "existing recent stock" GF with the STC-200 controller and also order a separate Connect controller upgrade. That way I end up with two controllers for a price similar to (or better than) the new GF Connect. I could then choose to go back to the simple STC-200 or replace the STC-200 in the old controller with a SmartPID.
> 
> Any recommendations for GF retailers that have good prices and enough turn over / stock to have a recent model GF available for delivery soon? I don't want to end up with a really old version that needs the other upgrade kits.


You'll have to ask someone else about the controller stuff, but I'll answer a few of your questions:

1. You would definitely need the micro pipework to do low ABV beers, especially only 20L batches. I've found the absolute minimum grain you can really put in the normal pipework without stuffing around is ~4.5kg, which gave me an SG of 1.046. Once you start going with smaller grain bills, you can no longer push the overflow pipe down far enough, so it sits higher than the top plate. To rectify, you have to stuff around with adding top up water and taking it out of your sparge calculations. For $40 for the micro pipework, it's just easier.

2. Cheeky Peak have really good prices. I bought mine about 6 months ago and it didn't require any upgrades (latest model), only thing is I got the outdated chiller. But I have been advised they are near identical, just slightly different aesthetics as they changed supplier.


----------



## Coodgee

BKBrews said:


> You'll have to ask someone else about the controller stuff, but I'll answer a few of your questions:
> 
> 1. You would definitely need the micro pipework to do low ABV beers, especially only 20L batches. I've found the absolute minimum grain you can really put in the normal pipework without stuffing around is ~4.5kg, which gave me an SG of 1.046. Once you start going with smaller grain bills, you can no longer push the overflow pipe down far enough, so it sits higher than the top plate. To rectify, you have to stuff around with adding top up water and taking it out of your sparge calculations. For $40 for the micro pipework, it's just


I've made 1035 og beers a few times. It's not hard at all. Add an extra 2-3 litres to the mash and subtract it from the sparge.


----------



## paulyman

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6dY2QiqwpE4&feature=youtu.be

This is a review that was posted to Grainfather Facebook page. Seems to show the controller is pretty easy too use, as is, without needing the app.


----------



## kaiserben

I made a 3% beer with the regular pipework using 3.88kg of grain.

Like Coodgee said, I ended up adding an extra 2L of water to the mash and subtracted that from the sparge.


----------



## peteru

Thanks for the feedback. I'll definitely go for the micro pipework option then. Most of my brews will be in the 5.5-7% ABV category, but I suspect that about 20% of the time I'll want to have something a bit lighter available. I'm sure that on occasions I will also get close to the 9kg limit too.

It seems like there is close to zero information available on the new controller, which is a shame. Now that it's been released, perhaps some beta testers could start talking about it.

As far as different hardware is concerned, again not much info, but I do notice that the pictures in the marketing collateral show differences between the older/current model and the Connect model. Besides the chiller being very different, there are also differences in the bottom element switch, the way the bottom plastic connects to the steel body, the thermowell and also the recirc arm.

It seems that I picked the wrong time to buy from Cheaky Peak - their web site is buggered.


----------



## BKBrews

peteru said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I'll definitely go for the micro pipework option then. Most of my brews will be in the 5.5-7% ABV category, but I suspect that about 20% of the time I'll want to have something a bit lighter available. I'm sure that on occasions I will also get close to the 9kg limit too.
> 
> It seems like there is close to zero information available on the new controller, which is a shame. Now that it's been released, perhaps some beta testers could start talking about it.
> 
> As far as different hardware is concerned, again not much info, but I do notice that the pictures in the marketing collateral show differences between the older/current model and the Connect model. Besides the chiller being very different, there are also differences in the bottom element switch, the way the bottom plastic connects to the steel body, the thermowell and also the recirc arm.
> 
> It seems that I picked the wrong time to buy from Cheaky Peak - their web site is buggered.


I would be very surprised if they are different - it's hard to tell from a render. The changes look so minute that I don't think they'd bother (e.g. What's the point of moving the element switch slightly). I would think the only actual difference is the controller and the chiller - but your thought process on getting one slightly older to obtain the older controller is sound.

I have been in contact with an imake rep, as I was quite unhappy that I was told I was getting the latest model but then found out I got the older chiller. I have been assured they just come from a different supplier and are near identical in construction, just cosmetically different. In fact, I actually think the old chiller might suit me better - the new chiller is on a spindle that sits in the lid hole, which is fine if that's how you chill. I personally leave the lid off during chilling and sit the chiller on a stool to the side of the grainfather.


----------



## peteru

Thanks for the YouTube link to the controller review. The user interface on the control unit seems pretty good. From the limited stuff I've seen, it looks better than the Braumeister.


----------



## peteru

All right. I gave Grainfather people a call and they checked for me. There is a difference between the base units. The classic GF version has a mash/normal switch on the base. On the new Grainfather Connect this switch is now an on/off switch.

So, it looks like I'll be going with a classic GF and add the new controller upgrade and micro pipework.

Contemplating a Keg King 3 roller Maltmuncher mill as well. Does it get the thumbs up / down as a GF companion?


----------



## paulyman

I use one with their mill motor attached, works fine for me.


----------



## N3MIS15

FWIW, I often do lower ABV beers without using the micro pipework. I simply just double the batch size. I have a 60l fermenter that I use for lower ABV beers (or split into cubes ant ferment as needed). I currently have 50l of 2.5%ish ABV fermenting is which i did a 30l boil and topped up with water in the fermenter.


----------



## peteru

/me is excited. About to jump in the car and pick up an old style GF with the Connect controller. I could have saved $100+ by ordering online, but Dave at Dave's Homebrew has always looked after me and has one I can pick up straight away. He can have the extra coins. :super:

First planned brew is DIY Dog #115 - 10 Heads High, Imperial Red Ale. Jump in at the deep end, hey? :lol:


----------



## Killer Brew

Let me think...tips for new users to avoid some of the dumb mistakes I made learning the system:

1) Remember to fit the filter onto the pipe before filling up with water
2) Be careful not to knock off said filter when stirring / scraping the bottom
3) The ring at the top that suspends the mash pipe can be removed for easy cleaning but remember to replace before mashing in next time
4) A little bit of water or grain dust makes the task of sliding the perforated plates into the mash pipe a hell of a lot easier
5) Think about where the process water from the counter flow chiller is going to go before you start it up. You will be surprised how much is used and how quickly containers overflow.
6) Check all of your connections on your counter flow chiller before using for the first time (and periodically after that).
7) Don't counter flow the wort back into the GF to cool before exiting to FV. Only run the hot wort through it long enough to sanitise and then start the water and exit to FV.
8) Put the lid back on after sparge to speed the time to boil.

Probably a few more that I can't recall but perhaps these will save you some heartache! Enjoy the new GF, great piece of kit!


----------



## paulyman

9) always make sure you know which switch is in which position at all times. There is no safety here, it would be so easy to get complacent and burn out your element.

Edit- and /or pump.


----------



## BKBrews

5 and 6 are so important, especially if you're brewing indoors or in a limited space. I'm still gobsmacked every time at just how much water the chilling process uses.


----------



## sixfignig

I've got a question about the new Grainfather Connect controller, as I'm wondering if it would be suitable as an off the shelf solution to build my own 1V recirc system.


Says the unit can power 2000w (rated?). What are the implications of running a 2200w or even 2400w element?
What temperature probe does it use, and does it come with the standalone unit? Is it hard-wired in, or what type of plug does it use?


----------



## peteru

1. I have not looked inside, so can not tell you for sure. However, I would suspect that it is most likely that the design would handle 10A at 240V. The control box does not seem to get hot due to operation with the 2000W element, so it does not appear to run near it's thermal limit.

2. Yes, the upgrade controller comes with a probe that is hardwired. It's hard to tell what probe they use. Superficially it looks like a DS18B20, but it could be anything.

You should know that the controller will regulate the heating output to a max of 99C. If you set the temp to 100C, it just translates to heating on at 100% power. You can not select anything higher than 100C.

During the first clean today, the GF Connect controller consistently indicated temperatures about 1-2C higher than my other instruments. It showed 100C about 5 minutes before the water actually came to boil. I have not found a way to calibrate the controller or set an offset.

The controller firmware seems to be buggy, or at least my controller exhibits odd behaviour. Pressing the HEAT button causes the pump to temporarily stop and then start again. Every few minutes the controller turns off the pump and heater for less than a second, then turns them back on again. This seems to be pretty random. Hopefully the controller firmware can be updated in the field.

Because the Android app is not available yet, I've only been able to test the controller operation using the front panel. No idea how it behaves with the app.

The GF Connect controller does not seem to fit into the cradle as well as the old control box does. It has no recess on the bottom and the shape of the controller does not quite match the metal bracket, so it kind of just sits on top, slightly off center.


----------



## peteru

Thanks for all the tips. I kind of got most of them by reading the previous 76 pages of this thread, but it's nice to have it summarised.



Killer Brew said:


> 5) Think about where the process water from the counter flow chiller is going to go before you start it up. You will be surprised how much is used and how quickly containers overflow.


I should be OK in this department. I have 2 kegs and 2 fermenters to collect the chiller water. I am brewing outside, in a covered area and can either redirect the water into the garden, or if it's too hot I can send it down the storm water pipe. The plan is to collect the chiller water and use it for cleanup and of there is too much, throw the rest in the bath for the kids.



Killer Brew said:


> 6) Check all of your connections on your counter flow chiller before using for the first time (and periodically after that).


This is a big one. They really need to pay the Chinese workers a few more cents per hour to manufacture chillers that are not safety hazards. As soon as I got the chiller out of the box, I could see that the red hot water out hose was not attached properly. The compression fitting was tight (required an 18mm wrench to get it off), but the hose was not inserted properly. Once I undid the fitting, I could see that the hose was not even cut square, so it never had a chance to fit properly. I cut off about 7mm, pushed it on all the way and applied some pressure on the hose as I tightened it. That fixed it, but the barbs on those fittings are tiny. I hope it stays on. The hot wort in hose had exactly the same issue and required the same fix. The cold side looked fine, so I did not bother doing anything there. Maybe I should.

The other end of the blue hose attaches to an adaptor to connect to your cold water source. This connection uses a barb, but the fit is not very tight and there is no hose clamp to secure the blue hose. When I had my garden hose set to a trickle it was fine, but as soon as I tried to increase the pressure, the blue hose flew off the barb and water from the garden hose sprayed everywhere. Even worse, hot water came back from the chiller and from the blue hose. GF really need to step up their game with the safety of the chillers.

I'm also not very impressed with the recirculation arm. It's too low to swing it sideways and get the lid off. The sparge silicon tube is likely to be too short for smaller grain bills, so micro pipework is not going to be enough a longer hose will be required.

How the F do you get the recirculation arm off without getting wort (or water) all over the place? It just leaks back down the arm and spills all over the ball valve and the pump. At boiling temperatures, this mess will dry on in moments. Can't they just design it so you don't have to unscrew the arm to get the lid off or attach the chiller?


----------



## rick1111082

peteru said:


> How the F do you get the recirculation arm off without getting wort (or water) all over the place? It just leaks back down the arm and spills all over the ball valve and the pump. At boiling temperatures, this mess will dry on in moments. Can't they just design it so you don't have to unscrew the arm to get the lid off or attach the chiller?
> 
> Never had this problem but I have the very first model of the gf that has the fine thread that screws into pipework.


----------



## paulyman

peteru said:


> How the F do you get the recirculation arm off without getting wort (or water) all over the place? It just leaks back down the arm and spills all over the ball valve and the pump. At boiling temperatures, this mess will dry on in moments. Can't they just design it so you don't have to unscrew the arm to get the lid off or attach the chiller?


Yeah that is a pain. For me, I've found if I turn the pump off while the ball valve is still open, wait a moment and then carefully unscrew it while the valve is still open it all drains away and I have no dramas. Just remember to close the valve again after that or you could have all sorts of dramas if you turn the pump back on accidentally!


----------



## kaiserben

peteru said:


> How the F do you get the recirculation arm off without getting wort (or water) all over the place? It just leaks back down the arm and spills all over the ball valve and the pump. At boiling temperatures, this mess will dry on in moments. Can't they just design it so you don't have to unscrew the arm to get the lid off or attach the chiller?


You switch the pump off. You wait. The wort will retreat back and eventually find equilibrium with the liquid level in the kettle. It happens fairly quickly. You can see it retreating in any of the clear/white silicon hose parts to get an idea of how fast this happens. On the chiller (where most of the tubing/piping is obscured) the first bit of hose after the discharge pipe is clear silicon, so you wait until you see the wort retreat past there before you start disconnecting things. 

Occasionally it doesn't retreat because it's being held in place by differences in air pressure. When that happens I just start to disconnect the recirc arm but don't yank it right off, just holding it in place and maybe wiggling it if absolutely necessary; you'll hear air rushing into the discharge pipe while the liquid falls to that equilibrium level. Once the air stops rushing you're safe to take the recirc arm off without spilling anything.


----------



## Killer Brew

peteru said:


> The plan is to collect the chiller water and use it for cleanup and of there is too much, throw the rest in the bath for the kids.


Gather around kids, brew day is bath day remember! Junior, stop hitting your sister with the mash paddle! 

Love it!


----------



## Killer Brew

peteru said:


> I'm also not very impressed with the recirculation arm. It's too low to swing it sideways and get the lid off. The sparge silicon tube is likely to be too short for smaller grain bills, so micro pipework is not going to be enough a longer hose will be required.
> 
> How the F do you get the recirculation arm off without getting wort (or water) all over the place? It just leaks back down the arm and spills all over the ball valve and the pump. At boiling temperatures, this mess will dry on in moments. Can't they just design it so you don't have to unscrew the arm to get the lid off or attach the chiller?


You can push the lid backwards along the recirc arm and it rests there vertically with run off going back into the kettle. Also I find when removing the recirc arm or chiller if I give the knob a quarter turn and leave a few seconds the pressure release makes all of the wort flow back into the kettle through the pump and can then remove relatively mess free.

Does the micro kit not come with a recirc tube extension (perhaps not, I don't have one)?

Edit: or exactly as the guys above suggested (should really read right through before replying)


----------



## peteru

Thanks for all the tips. I'm off to Bunnings to buy a hose clamp or three and thick rubber gloves to prevent burns, then the first brew day starts. I already have 20L of 90C water waiting to split off into sparge bucket and dilute down to 65C for the mash in.

I'll have to play around a bit with disconnecting the arm. When I was cleaning yesterday, just turning off the pump and waiting did not work. The silicon tube is under the liquid level so the entire loop is a closed system. If you don't have any leaks in that loop, then it can't drain. I guess lifting the end of the silicon tube up above the arm should allow it to drain, but that's going to be a challenge with boiling wort and the hot glass lid threaded through it.

As far as loosening the knob, again I'll have to experiment a bit. I noticed that the pipework seals pretty well. As you loosen the knob, the arm still seals and just slides up. Then the spring and ball shuts off and only after that the sealing stops and I get the leakage. I'll play around here, maybe the trick is to loosen, then wiggle a bit to only suck in enough air for the wort to drain out the silicone end back into the kettle.

Anyway, it sounds like that with enough practice it is possible to make it less messy than what I have been doing. If anyone can point me to YouTube videos that show how it's done with the ball and spring version of the GF, that would be great.


----------



## kaiserben

peteru said:


> I'll have to play around a bit with disconnecting the arm. When I was cleaning yesterday, just turning off the pump and waiting did not work. The silicon tube is under the liquid level so the entire loop is a closed system. If you don't have any leaks in that loop, then it can't drain. I guess lifting the end of the silicon tube up above the arm should allow it to drain, but that's going to be a challenge with boiling wort and the hot glass lid threaded through it.


Yep. Exactly right. 

You don't need to worry about this at boiling temps though. You'll be removing the recirc arm before your sparge (so the temp here will be ~75C. Still very bloody hot!). So you'll need to break that loop somehow. Either the method I mentioned above (getting air in the discharge pipe), or lift the lid up over the recirc arm (and rest it on the top bracket that holds the discharge pipe in place) so you have easy access to the tube.

I've never needed rubber gloves.


----------



## Killer Brew

I wear gloves when scraping the element after the mash paddle slipped once and my hand went in. F%$*ing ouch.


----------



## peteru

Back from Bunnings and they had no suitable thick gloves. They only seem to stock one kind and there were none left on the shelf. I'll just have to be extra careful.

I've got a hose clamp on the blue chiller hose now. At $1.08 from Bunnings, it could have easily been included with the GF as standard.


----------



## peteru

The new Grainfather Connect controller is buggy, even when used standalone without an app. (I have Android only, so no app is available at this stage)

1. Intermittently, the controller will turn the heat and pump off for less than a second and back on. When this happens a relay clicks.
2. When in direct heater power control mode, any time you change the heater power level to 100%, the pump stops and starts. Changing between other power levels, such as 75% -> 80% does not show this problem.
3. The temperature readout can get stuck in some cases. For example, I set the target temp to 65C. The read out started at 22C, but then it remained on 29C for a long time. I checked the temp with another thermometer and it was already up to 48C. Turning the controller off and on fixed the issue and the readout then correctly showed 48C. This has happened twice now.
4. If you start the step mash mode using the control panel menu, there appears to be no apparent way of getting out and going back to manual control. The only way seems to turn off and on.

I'll have to shoot an email to the manufacturer.


----------



## Coldspace

That's no good, hopefully it was just a lemon you got...
They should have these tested properly for market release.

I'm just sticking with my standard system for now..
I will watch with interest, but something's pulling me towards a bigger system soon .


----------



## nfragol

Just wondering, can these new controllers be updated with firmware fixes or updated with new features ?


----------



## paulyman

nfragol said:


> Just wondering, can these new controllers be updated with firmware fixes or updated with new features ?


I'm assuming (hoping) that firmware updates can be pushed through to the unit via the app.


----------



## Reedy

Was at a GF demo in Brisbane yesterday, Nick (GF rep) mentioned that future updates will be via the app (not the controller itself)


----------



## Bridgey23

Just finished a brew day with the new controller. Uploaded my recipe to the controller and used my iPhone to start the show. Worked flawlessly and I couldn't be happier with my upgrade. It reminds you of everything along the way with alarms,even to start heating your sparge water. Awesome addition to the Grainfather.


----------



## amarks6

Sorry if I'm off topic...but does anyone know what happened to the Grainbrother?

I thought it was a good idea, but it seems to have disappeared altogether from the GF family!


----------



## amarks6

Killer Brew said:


> 7) Don't counter flow the wort back into the GF to cool before exiting to FV. Only run the hot wort through it long enough to sanitise and then start the water and exit to FV.


Why not? I thought it was designed to do this - and leave cold break in the boiler.


----------



## paulyman

Dr Rummy said:


> Why not? I thought it was designed to do this - and leave cold break in the boiler.


It is horribly inefficient to do it that way, the GF guys came out and said it was designed to be run straight from the kettle to the fermenter.


----------



## tugger

I chill mine back to the pot down to 60. 
I like to add late hops at 65c.


----------



## BKBrews

Chilling is pretty compromised in QLD at the moment. I'm getting it down to about 27 degrees, then putting it in the fridge at 18. Takes about 4 hours to get down to about 20 and that's when I pitch. Let it slowly drop to 18 and hold it there.

I really want to work out a good process for whirlpool hopping....


----------



## peteru

peteru said:


> 1. Intermittently, the controller will turn the heat and pump off for less than a second and back on. When this happens a relay clicks.
> 2. When in direct heater power control mode, any time you change the heater power level to 100%, the pump stops and starts. Changing between other power levels, such as 75% -> 80% does not show this problem.
> 3. The temperature readout can get stuck in some cases. For example, I set the target temp to 65C. The read out started at 22C, but then it remained on 29C for a long time. I checked the temp with another thermometer and it was already up to 48C. Turning the controller off and on fixed the issue and the readout then correctly showed 48C. This has happened twice now.
> 4. If you start the step mash mode using the control panel menu, there appears to be no apparent way of getting out and going back to manual control. The only way seems to turn off and on.
> 
> I'll have to shoot an email to the manufacturer.



I heard back from Grainfather customer service. Here's what they had to say:



Grainfather customer service said:


> 1. The pump relay is turned off before switching the heat relay on, and then the pump is turned back on. This is supposed to happen and is to avoid the pump relay turning off when turning on the heat relay (issue with beta units) because in some situations the available power is too low. We couldn’t use a bigger transformer and still get certification so this was a software compromise. It doesn’t affect usage whatsoever.
> 
> 2. When using 100% power, the controller uses the mechanical relay to supply full power to the element. When using less than 100% power, the controller uses the triac and a PWM signal to control the power to the element. This is by design.
> 
> 3. This is the first reported instance of this happening that I’m aware off. I would have to reproduce and confirm the issue to see if it’s a bug in the firmware. We will need to get the controller back and run tests on it.
> 
> 4. Yes the only way to quit step mash mode while if brewing without a phone is to turn the power off and on.


So it looks like 1 and 2 are "quirks" by design, 4 could be fixed in the future by a firmware update and 3 is not something they've seen before.


----------



## paulyman

Tried the new controller out yesterday on a batch of Better Red than Dead. It was great to transfer the beersmith recipe to the app and then have it run on the controller! Worked brilliantly, only had one issue, which I'm 90% sure is my iPhone 6s and not the controller. At the end of each stage when I got a notification on my phone if I was close to out of range when I opened the app it couldn't reconnect to the controller. I'd have to kill the app and reopen, which meant I had to restart the recipe and cycle through to the correct stage. This happened at the end of the mash and the start of the boil. Not a killer but a bit of a pain. I have a similar issue with my ANOVA sous vide stick, which we (support and me) have pretty much narrowed down to an issue with Bluetooth and wifi on the iPhone 6s.

Other than the one issue, I really like this thing. It was so easy to use. I liked the sparge counter that was a nonessential but nice touch.


----------



## sixfignig

OK so I've order a Grainfather Connect to act as the controller for my own 1V recirculation system build.

In regards to the temperature probe, how is this implemented in the Grainfather? Does it sit in a thermowell, and if so, what size should I buy to accomodate it?


----------



## welly2

Just bought a Grainfather Sparge Heater to replace my Crown urn (which I found too big and unwieldy for the task of sparging). Wondered if anyone has made any mods, got any tips/inside info on it? I realise there's not much to it - fill it with water and turn it on but y'know!


----------



## Coodgee

sixfignig said:


> OK so I've order a Grainfather Connect to act as the controller for my own 1V recirculation system build.
> 
> In regards to the temperature probe, how is this implemented in the Grainfather? Does it sit in a thermowell, and if so, what size should I buy to accomodate it?


Yes.


----------



## Coodgee

welly2 said:


> Just bought a Grainfather Sparge Heater to replace my Crown urn (which I found too big and unwieldy for the task of sparging). Wondered if anyone has made any mods, got any tips/inside info on it? I realise there's not much to it - fill it with water and turn it on but y'know!


No


----------



## paulyman

welly2 said:


> Just bought a Grainfather Sparge Heater to replace my Crown urn (which I found too big and unwieldy for the task of sparging). Wondered if anyone has made any mods, got any tips/inside info on it? I realise there's not much to it - fill it with water and turn it on but y'know!


I just use it as is, it's very set and forget. At the moment I just fill a jug repeatedly to add sparge water to the basket. I do plan eventually to make a stand of some sort to simply gravity feed it into the basket. That may require changing out the tap for a ball valve to control the flow though and paying careful attention to the amount added to the sparge as I usually fill to the max line regardless.


----------



## Bridgey23

My sparge heater sits above my grainfather and I have a bit of food grade hose attached to tap. View attachment 93355

Edit: View attachment 93356
Tried to upload a photo but it won't work for some reason.


----------



## peteru

sixfignig said:


> In regards to the temperature probe, how is this implemented in the Grainfather? Does it sit in a thermowell, and if so, what size should I buy to accomodate it?


The probe is hardwired into the controller. It is on a 50cm long cable. The probe has a metal tip that is 35mm long and 6mm in diameter. There is a plastic moulding between the tip of the probe and the cable. This moulding is about 26mm long and 9mm in diameter, with a 9.6mm diameter ridge in the middle.

I would say that a 6mm inner diameter thermowell should do the trick.


----------



## sixfignig

peteru said:


> The probe is hardwired into the controller. It is on a 50cm long cable. The probe has a metal tip that is 35mm long and 6mm in diameter. There is a plastic moulding between the tip of the probe and the cable. This moulding is about 26mm long and 9mm in diameter, with a 9.6mm diameter ridge in the middle.
> 
> I would say that a 6mm inner diameter thermowell should do the trick.


Cheers mate, I really appreciate the response and accurate measurements. Do you know of any retailers, online or otherwise, that may sell something suitable?


----------



## Futur

Gents the grainfather connect app is now on the Android store


----------



## welly2

Futur said:


> Gents the grainfather connect app is now on the Android store


Which has prompted me go and pick up a grainfather connect controller this arvo.


----------



## Coodgee

Futur said:


> Gents the grainfather connect app is now on the Android store


cool. thanks for the heads up.


----------



## Clevo

Anyone having trouble importing recipes into the Android connect app? I can get then to open in file manager, but there is no option to open it to the app. If I click the xml file from the email I get the choice to open it with the connect app and it starts to load but freezes on the load screen.


----------



## Coodgee

Yeah same is happening to me. They said on Facebook you can email them the xml file and they will make it compatible


----------



## Clevo

Looks like it was a simple fix, just need to have no spaces in the file name.


----------



## peteru

Known bug. Together with things going belly up if you walk out of Bluetooth range.


----------



## peteru

I also noticed that the GF Connect Android app is a CPU and battery hog. It seems to start some kind of a background process that does this. It got to a point (when out of GF range) that it stopped GPS working properly until I rebooted the phone.

At this stage, the Android app is probably really only useful if you have a device, such as a tablet, that is permanently sitting near the GF. It's early days, so lets hope that they continue development on the GF Connect app and get it all polished, stable and integrated with their online recipe portal.

The previous Grainfather app was a pretty poor implementation (ipad / cross platform port) that never seemed to be finished. Presumably Imake put the old app out to pasture while they worked on the GF Connect app to replace it.


----------



## nfragol

Hi guys and merry Christmas, it just got the new connect unit and just wanted to ask if there is a way to offset the temperature reading.

According to my thermopen its a few degrees Celsius off.


----------



## peteru

In which direction? If it is reading a bit under, make sure that the probe is inserted all the way in the thermowell. It will go in a fair bit and then offer resistance. It's not fully inserted at this point, you need to put your hand against the other side of the GF and push a bit harder. The probe will then click in another 1-2mm and then it is inserted properly. A bit of keg lube on the plastic moulding on the probe may make this easier.

When the probe is not properly inserted it will have an offset and also more lag. On my initial cleaning run, I also thought that the controller was reading wrong, but a fiddle with the probe got it to +/-1C, which is the precision of the display anyway.

If that is not a solution for you, then, no I don't know of any way of getting a setup/configuration menu that would allow you to calibrate the temperature. If you do find it, please let us know.


----------



## nfragol

Thanks for the input, I'll give it a try.


----------



## hoppinmad

A question for those familiar with the operation of the connect control box. Is there a way of skipping through steps in your brew session? Last weekend I brewed the Easy Drop IPA grainkid recipe and halfway through I accidently turned off the switch to the grainfather, thus re-setting the whole session. I wasn't sure how to skip through to the stage I was at so in the end I just went about the remainder of the brew day manually.


----------



## razz

I would think you would have to edit that program and set the time to 0 for each step you had already achieved prior to bumping the switch HM. Then start again where you left off, should only take a minute or two.


----------



## Coodgee

There is an option somewhere to skip to next step


----------



## Chridech

nfragol said:


> Hi guys and merry Christmas, it just got the new connect unit and just wanted to ask if there is a way to offset the temperature reading.
> According to my thermopen its a few degrees Celsius off.


I suspect that even with a very efficient recirculation there is a temperature differential of 1-2C from top to bottom in the mash tun. Don't know how you get around this except to think an insulating coat may help a little. So what is your mash temp? Is it that measured at the probe, in the recirculated liquor overlying the top plate, or is it the (unmeasurable) temp. deep within the middle of the mash? They are probably all different. I think you just need to know this discrepancy exists, assume its consistent over time, and compensate for it if you feel you need to.


----------



## doctr-dan

The last few brews I have done the top perforated plate seems to sink down a fair bit.
When I first put it in I sit it just on top of the grain bed.
Any suggestions?


----------



## BKBrews

doctr-dan said:


> The last few brews I have done the top perforated plate seems to sink down a fair bit.
> When I first put it in I sit it just on top of the grain bed.
> Any suggestions?


How can it sink any further than the top of the grain bed?


----------



## kaiserben

BKBrews said:


> How can it sink any further than the top of the grain bed?


It doesn't. 

What's happening is his grain bed is settling/compacting, so that the top of the grain bed ends up lower than when it started. And the plate can slip because the grain bed is lower. 

It's not really something to worry about. Just push it gently down to the top of the grain bed when you start the sparge.


----------



## Coodgee

kaiserben said:


> It doesn't.
> 
> What's happening is his grain bed is settling/compacting, so that the top of the grain bed ends up lower than when it started. And the plate can slip because the grain bed is lower.
> 
> It's not really something to worry about. Just push it gently down to the top of the grain bed when you start the sparge.


agree. I think the only purpose of the top plate is to spread the wort/sparge water evenly over the grain bed and stop it being disturbed too much. I don't worry when it falls down.


----------



## doctr-dan

when it falls down doesn't it compromise the clarity of the wort?


----------



## Coodgee

I don't think so. Sometimes when it falls down it might seem like the wort is less clear because you can't see the top plate as clearly, but I think that's just because there is more wort above it (twice the distance between top plate and surface = half the clarity).


----------



## welly2

Just got this email from Grainfather:

Grainfather Connect Android App Issues

Important message from our Managing Director - 

I want to sincerely apologise for the ongoing issues that some users are experiencing with our Android app.

The complexity, requirements and value we wish to deliver to our customers via our app, was not able to be fulfilled by our current Android version contractor. This has been both frustrating for ourselves and our customers. 

As such, we have decided to engage another development team to start from scratch and deliver the best possible product. Unfortunately, this will take at least 3 months but we believe that we need to do this to maintain the high quality and integrity of the Grainfather family of products.

The current app is still available via the Playstore, which will allow you to perform basic brew steps. Unfortunately, issues are being experienced in other areas such as recipe importing, battery usage, Bluetooth coverage, and app crashing when starting a session from an imported recipe.

*Note – This does affect the Grainfather Connect Control Box. All Grainfather functionality is still controllable via the physical unit itself. The iOS version of the app is also not affected.

Once again, our sincere apologies for any frustration the current app has caused and we thank you for your patience while the development takes place.

Regards, Peter Eastwood
Managing Director


----------



## SBOB

>Unfortunately, this will take at least 3 months

meaning they didn't hire another android development team... they hired another android 'developer'...


----------



## peteru

Thanks for posting. Even though I have registered my details with Grainfather and have been in touch with their tech support a number of times, I have not received this message. Maybe they only sent it to customers that purchased directly from the Grainfather online store?


----------



## wambesi

SBOB said:


> >Unfortunately, this will take at least 3 months
> 
> meaning they didn't hire another android development team... they hired another android 'developer'...


I don't think so.


----------



## wambesi

peteru said:


> Thanks for posting. Even though I have registered my details with Grainfather and have been in touch with their tech support a number of times, I have not received this message. Maybe they only sent it to customers that purchased directly from the Grainfather online store?


Jump on the GF web site and register your email address on there again, not sure why it would have been removed - or perhaps check the spam folder.


----------



## peteru

Checked my Spam/Junk folder - nothing there.

Went back to grainfather.com, logged in and checked that the email address on record is correct. I also have the Newsletter subscription box checked - there is only one option "General Subscription"

Logged out and then tried to subscribe in the section labelled "Join the Grainfather Club, Sign up for our Newsletter !", but that resulted in an error message: "There was a problem with the subscription: This email address is already assigned to another user."

So, it looks like my email address is definitely in the database, but I have not received any newsletters - ever. I have received email messages from Grainfather tech support people. I also checked the email server logs, to see if it rejected any messages that may have been coming from blacklisted servers. Again, all clear on that front, no rejections.

My conclusion is that perhaps it's not only the Android app that is having issues. It looks like mailouts to customers are not working as intended either.

Happy to help you/iMake troubleshoot the issue. Send me a PM if you need specific details or more help getting to the bottom of this.


----------



## Gloveski

Well my first two brews in the grainfather done the last 2 days.

First brew done was a Country trading store "saturday smasher"
Mash went well except I had a little bit of grain and some was going down overflow , will remember to throttle valve back if this happens again in the future , have a sink strainer coming for this also. Sparge all good about 15 to 20 minutes in total , temp was about 95 when I finished so not far off boil. Boil stage and this is where I noticed a hell of alot of grain floating around in the boil , starting to think bottom plate was not down correctly. I used a hop sock and was only 30g in total. Chiller stage went well and when I went to pump into fermenter in noticed a hell of alot of trub , basically threw the hole first 2 litres away. Rest went in had one hell of a cold break, I was worried I had knocked of pump filter but all was ok but was not expecting the huge amount of trub . OG was 1.50 with a target of 1.47 and checked ph with about 10 min to go in mash (is this an ok time to take it?) and that was 5.38 so within guidelines. Taste test and was very sweet so be interesting to see how it turns out . was looking at 19 litres in total and threw out 2 litres roughly and ended up with just shy of 16 lites so about 1 and a bit litres short of desired levels

Second Brew was Country trading store " Mango Pale Ale"
Mash way better than first one had bugger all grain and didnt have to throttle valve back and had a nice clear wort by end of mash. Sparge same time as last and was at 95 again by the time I had finished . Boil all good used hop sock again as alot more hops than last one . Seemed to be alot of hop matter floating around in boil so decided to use a strainer when pumping to fermenter , this gave a fair amount of trub in strainer, but one bonus was aerated wort beautifully and temp was at about 20 so pitched yeast straight away. A fair amont of trub but nothing like first brew even though it had more hops. Og was 1.056 target was 1.055 so nice and close and ph during mash was 5.29 . Taste of wort was quite bitter and I am worried with more dry hoping to come this will be vey bitter but dry hopping should only add to aroma ? , I am hoping the mango in fermenter will counter act this as IBU is only meant to be 35. Was left with about 17 litres so 2 short this time


Now for some questions I done a hop stand with the zero minute additions for 20 minutes , I am worried this is were the extra bitterness has come from due to the 60 minute additions been left in wort longer. There was no mention of hop standing in the instructions ao was I basically supposed to start chilling and pump to fermenter once 0 minute additions were added ?

If in future I add more water say a litre to try first in sparge will this weaken my wort and mean I miss my OG target , was hoping to get closer to 19 lites so I could fill up kegs but obviously dont want a weaker brew Dumb newbie question I know .

Should I not worry about the trub in the wort as it most likely will drop out when I cold crash , But I am a hater of floaties in beer so really not sure what to do here in future.

All in all was impressed with the whole grainfather process but thought my finished wort would have been clearer and once trub falls out my levels will be well short when kegging . Have 2 beautiful Krausens going when I woke up today so fermenting looking good so far Next brew will be an actual grainfather kit so will be interested to see if I come up short with finished wort levels with this one

All in all an enjoyable couple of days with my new toy


----------



## Killer Brew

If you are doing a 20 min hop stand you need to adjust your timings in whatever software you are using (eg. Any 30 min addition is now actually more like a 50 min equivalent). This will normally mean higher ibu's of course. Likewise your 0 min additions are likely adding some ibu's due to the long stand. 

On the sparge and yes any additional water will weaken the wort.

Your volumes seem low. Worth tracking your efficiencies. Your software will normally calculate this for you if you give it the grain weight / type, original gravity and volume.


----------



## Gloveski

Killer Brew said:


> If you are doing a 20 min hop stand you need to adjust your timings in whatever software you are using (eg. Any 30 min addition is now actually more like a 50 min equivalent). This will normally mean higher ibu's of course. Likewise your 0 min additions are likely adding some ibu's due to the long stand.
> On the sparge and yes any additional water will weaken the wort.
> Your volumes seem low. Worth tracking your efficiencies. Your software will normally calculate this for you if you give it the grain weight / type, original gravity and volume.


thanks for the reply 
So with the 0 minute additions I basically should do a quick whirlpool and then pump to fermenter once chilled enough.
Not using any software as yet these were brought kits but eventually will look at doing own recipes. Need to get my head around the whole efficiency thing before I do my next brew I think


----------



## Killer Brew

Gloveski said:


> thanks for the reply
> So with the 0 minute additions I basically should do a quick whirlpool and then pump to fermenter once chilled enough.
> Not using any software as yet these were brought kits but eventually will look at doing own recipes. Need to get my head around the whole efficiency thing before I do my next brew I think


That is what I do with flame out additions however your 20 minute hopstand is a perfectly valid option depending on what you are looking to achieve. Just that if you do go that way know that it impacts the rest of the hop schedule which you may need to make allowance for. By far the easiest way to understand the impact is to use software such as Brewer's Friend (site sponsor) and play around with the different options to see what changes with each method. The software works for all brewing types so will give an accurate read whether you are using malt extract, all grain or a mix of both.


----------



## Gloveski

Killer Brew said:


> That is what I do with flame out additions however your 20 minute hopstand is a perfectly valid option depending on what you are looking to achieve. Just that if you do go that way know that it impacts the rest of the hop schedule which you may need to make allowance for. By far the easiest way to understand the impact is to use software such as Brewer's Friend (site sponsor) and play around with the different options to see what changes with each method. The software works for all brewing types so will give an accurate read whether you are using malt extract, all grain or a mix of both.


thanks killer having a play around with it now


----------



## Gloveski

Sorry to be a pain but have a few more newbie grainfather questions and brewing in general

Regarding taking a pre boil OG which I didnt do on my first 2 grainfather brews but would like to take one on next brew to see how I am tracking effieciency wise. After the sparge do I need to stir or just grab a sample and let cool to take hydrometer reading do not have a refractometer as yet, or take it just before the boil so the wort would be nicely mixed together well in my eyes anyway lol.

I have also been playing around with Beersmith and doing some conversion of recipes etc from BIAB to grainfather , one thing I have noticed is the mash in most recipes is 75 minutes , just wondering should I stick with original mashtime or lower it to 60min like I have seen in most grainfather recipes


----------



## Killer Brew

Always give a good stir before taking a sample as you do get stratification within the wort. Make sure to cool or adjust for temp when taking a reading (Brewer's Friend have a calculator for this).

As for mash times and different mash times (and obviously temps) achieve different things so the quick answer to your question is that a change will have an impact (eg. Efficiency, colour, taste, fermentability, strength). Adjusting timings in Beersmith should give you an indication of this however further reading and experience will round out your knowledge on the variables.


----------



## Gloveski

Killer Brew said:


> Always give a good stir before taking a sample as you do get stratification within the wort. Make sure to cool or adjust for temp when taking a reading (Brewer's Friend have a calculator for this).
> As for mash times and different mash times (and obviously temps) achieve different things so the quick answer to your question is that a change will have an impact (eg. Efficiency, colour, taste, fermentability, strength). Adjusting timings in Beersmith should give you an indication of this however further reading and experience will round out your knowledge on the variables.


Thanks again killer brew , so much to learn but loving it ,the help from people such as yourself is invaluable . It can be easy to put out a good beer or a crap one for that , but knowing why well that's half the fun


----------



## doctr-dan

Howdy howdy, im currently brewing a ruination IPA clone and I think my pre boil volume is low only 25l and I'm aiming for a 23l batch.
My sparse was really slow so I'm assuming the grain has held more water. 
Do I just deal with having less in the fermenter or should I top up with water.?
I'm 30mins into a 90min boil


----------



## hoppinmad

did you take a preboil gravity? If you are over your target pre boil gravity you could dilute down. Otherwise, adjust your hop additions for the smaller volume and put up with a smaller batch size


----------



## doctr-dan

I don't know how to work out what pre boil gravity should be. 
I did take a reading though in anticipation of being asked this question. 
In the end I was lucky to get about 17L in the fermenter with a OG of 1.068 which is a lot lower than the intended 1.075


----------



## Gloveski

doctr-dan said:


> I don't know how to work out what pre boil gravity should be.
> I did take a reading though in anticipation of being asked this question.
> In the end I was lucky to get about 17L in the fermenter with a OG of 1.068 which is a lot lower than the intended 1.075


Big key mate done two grainfather brews and will be looking at pre boil gravity as my finished OG and litres in fermenter were not what I expected . About to keg both tomorrow as finished cold crashing and just blew the last keg of K&K tonight ..............nice timing


----------



## kaiserben

doctr-dan said:


> I don't know how to work out what pre boil gravity should be.
> I did take a reading though in anticipation of being asked this question.
> In the end I was lucky to get about 17L in the fermenter with a OG of 1.068 which is a lot lower than the intended 1.075


(I use Beersmith and it calculates stuff like pre-boil gravity for me. Although I rarely bother to check) 

Starting with the easier thing to address: With you missing your target gravity, the first thing to look at is your calculated overall efficiency. Assuming your calculations were based on 75% overall efficiency it's worth noting that as you go bigger in grain bill and gravity your efficiency will suffer. There's a bit of trial and error in figuring out exactly how much it suffers, but when I'm shooting for ~1.075 OG I'll usually drop my efficiency down to 70% (or even lower). 

But the big shock here is that your target volume is a whopping 6L under target. That's huge. I often come up 1L or so short, particularly when I have bigger grain bills or loads of hops (more hops soak up more volume), but 6L is too much to be explained away by plenty of hops. 

Because your pre-boil volume is already 3L short (25, not 28L), can I ask whether you took into account the 90 minute boil? Assuming your recipe had 7.05Kg grain (a Ruination clone I just Googled online) the Grainfather mash/sparge calculator tells me you should be using 22.54L mash and sparging with 12.61L for a 90 minute boil. Is that what you used? 

PS-
You asked a question before that about whether to top up your final volume. I wouldn't bother if your gravity is already way short. In fact, I'd never top up unless I've somehow overshot my gravity. 

EDIT: Grammar.


----------



## Coodgee

you can simplify the water requirements for the grainfather by using the calculator to get the mash water volume required, then just keep sparging (or stop sparging after a certain amount and then just top up) until you have collected 28-29 litres. Then if you under/overshoot your final fermenter volume then just adjust the total volume accordingly next time. I find for a hoppy beer (>100 grams of hops in the boil) I need as much as 29.5L and about 28.5L otherwise. But it depends on your filter type and at what point you stop pumping into the fermenter too. I stop pumping as soon as I start to see air bubbles getting sucked into the chiller to minimise trub.


----------



## kaiserben

Yes, although it's important to note that if your gravity is already low at that stage of the brew, then topping up with more water is only going to put your gravity out by more. So it's a decision you'll need to make at the time.

(Of course, you could do some on-the-fly calculations and add in some DME to get to your target gravity about right. But again that's a decision each brewer will need to make).


----------



## pnorkle

So, a question for those that have upgraded their original GF controller to the newer "Connect Control Box."

Would you say the cost (admittedly, it's not a lot of money) was worth it? Does it make brewing using the GF easier?

Opinions to the usual address, please.


----------



## Dorz

Ordered a grainfather (with the new controller), sparge unit, blichmann thrumometer and a couple of other goodies yesterday, along with a few cheeky peak all grain kits... should give me a good starting idea of how the brew day goes before creating / modifying some recipes!


----------



## Coodgee

pnorkle said:


> So, a question for those that have upgraded their original GF controller to the newer "Connect Control Box."
> 
> Would you say the cost (admittedly, it's not a lot of money) was worth it? Does it make brewing using the GF easier?
> 
> Opinions to the usual address, please.


Yep. Adds a lot of consistency to the process


----------



## doctr-dan

kaiserben said:


> (I use Beersmith and it calculates stuff like pre-boil gravity for me. Although I rarely bother to check)
> Starting with the easier thing to address: With you missing your target gravity, the first thing to look at is your calculated overall efficiency. Assuming your calculations were based on 75% overall efficiency it's worth noting that as you go bigger in grain bill and gravity your efficiency will suffer. There's a bit of trial and error in figuring out exactly how much it suffers, but when I'm shooting for ~1.075 OG I'll usually drop my efficiency down to 70% (or even lower).
> But the big shock here is that your target volume is a whopping 6L under target. That's huge. I often come up 1L or so short, particularly when I have bigger grain bills or loads of hops (more hops soak up more volume), but 6L is too much to be explained away by plenty of hops.
> 
> Because your pre-boil volume is already 3L short (25, not 28L), can I ask whether you took into account the 90 minute boil? Assuming your recipe had 7.05Kg grain (a Ruination clone I just Googled online) the Grainfather mash/sparge calculator tells me you should be using 22.54L mash and sparging with 12.61L for a 90 minute boil. Is that what you used?
> 
> PS-
> You asked a question before that about whether to top up your final volume. I wouldn't bother if your gravity is already way short. In fact, I'd never top up unless I've somehow overshot my gravity.
> EDIT: Grammar.


Sorry for the late reply, my Grain bill was 8.37kg and I used 22.7L mash water and 13.4L to sparge.
I did have the efficiency set at 75% 
The sparge was super slow


----------



## kaiserben

Alright, so the GF calculator gives values of 22.75L mash and 13.45L sparge (for 8.73kg grain and boiling for 90 minutes). I guess that could explain 1L out of your missing pre-boil Litres). 

As you've mentioned the really slow sparge, I guess the rest was still in your grain bed when you removed the basket. 

And also, not volume-related, but at 8.73kg, which is right near the limit of the GF's capacity, I'd be lowering efficiency to under 70%, maybe 65% (other GF brewers may disagree with those numbers? I'd be interested to hear people's thoughts).


----------



## Gloveski

well my first all grain brew on the grainfather , it's slightly undercarbed at the moment should be cherry ripe by the weekend . I over shot my ABV should have been 4.6 ended up 5.2 but other than that it tastes bloody fantastic. I had lots of grain floating in this one on the boil but has turned out nice and clear in the end . Big thanks to all that have answered my newbie questions .....especially killer brew cheers to you mate :beerbang:


----------



## Coldspace

Gloveski said:


> well my first all grain brew on the grainfather , it's slightly undercarbed at the moment should be cherry ripe by the weekend . I over shot my ABV should have been 4.6 ended up 5.2 but other than that it tastes bloody fantastic. I had lots of grain floating in this one on the boil but has turned out nice and clear in the end . Big thanks to all that have answered my newbie questions .....especially killer brew cheers to you mate :beerbang:





Gloveski said:


> well my first all grain brew on the grainfather , it's slightly undercarbed at the moment should be cherry ripe by the weekend . I over shot my ABV should have been 4.6 ended up 5.2 but other than that it tastes bloody fantastic. I had lots of grain floating in this one on the boil but has turned out nice and clear in the end . Big thanks to all that have answered my newbie questions .....especially killer brew cheers to you mate :beerbang:


No looking back now, love the g/f


----------



## Gloveski

well another brew down today was an interesting day to say the least.

Done a helles Lager from mangrove jack's. When I opened the pack I thought the crush looked really fine but being a newbie I soldiered on

Well it started off badly had massive water build up whilst mashing and grain everywhere again. So about 45 minutes in I stopped everything and stirred up the mash again even though it looked fine and started the mash from scratch again.
Everyhing was back on track until mashout it took for ever to hit mash temp of 75 . I was looking at the heat setting on iphone app compared to what was actually on the controller it just basically stayed at 30% whilst on my phone it was ramping up I reckon atleast 40 minutes to get from mash to mash out. Will be sending an email to grainfather about this

So preboil my effieciency was really high about 95% probably due to the extra long mash?
Had a preboil volume of 29 litres

In the boil had lots of grain again same as last brew but this time I was armed with a sieve and just scoped all the loose grain out during the 90 minute boil . Only thing I can think of is I am moving the bottom plate seal when mashing in because I double checked the bottom plate before putting in any grain?

So started the counter flow chiller all was going well done the steralise and then started the cold water to chill down and low and behold about 5 minutes in I have a bloody leak.

So had to pump to fermenter at about 35 degrees and have it chilling down in fermentation fridge until it hits a reasonable temp so I can pitch yeast . Ended up with 21 litres in fermenter so 2 litres short of desired not sure why though?

I have named my little brewery Pigs Den Brewing after the way my kids treat the spare room I set up for them. Thinking after today renaming it Tits Up Brewing because today wasn't a good brew day lol But I did hit my OG so atleast that is one thing

But what makes it all worth while I am sitting here drinking my first all grain brew and it is bloody fantastic :beerbang:


----------



## Yola

I have just hooked into beersmith and I though there was a profile for the robobrew but I can't find it. Has someone out there set a profile up for this yet? Can you please help me with it!! What changes need to be made from the grainfather profile to suit the robobrew?
Thanks


----------



## d3vour3r

where are people going for the 50L version?

can only find 30l version listed on supplier websites.

want to go halves with a mate and slit the brew per brew


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Gloveski said:


> In the boil had lots of grain again same as last brew but this time I was armed with a sieve and just scoped all the loose grain out during the 90 minute boil . Only thing I can think of is I am moving the bottom plate seal when mashing in because I double checked the bottom plate before putting in any grain?


Does your bottom sieve have a silicone seal around it and does it move easily? I thought they were pretty tight.


----------



## Chridech

d3vour3r said:


> where are people going for the 50L version?
> 
> can only find 30l version listed on supplier websites.
> 
> want to go halves with a mate and slit the brew per brew


99% certain there is no 50L Grainfather.


----------



## Yola

Robobrew have a 50 or 60lt version coming out.


----------



## Gloveski

wide eyed and legless said:


> Does your bottom sieve have a silicone seal around it and does it move easily? I thought they were pretty tight.


I wouldn't say it's over tight , I double checked to make sure it was seated correctly see how the next brew goes


----------



## d3vour3r

i plan on going halves on a GF and brewing with a mate. Would be nice to make 2x20L batches from one 25L brew.

do many people do this? would have to dilute a high gravity wort, then split into 2x20L batches to ferment and dry hop at our respective homes.

im guessing a larger hop profile will be needed to compensate for the dilution as well.

is there calculators out there to work out dilution amounts etc?


----------



## fletcher

d3vour3r said:


> i plan on going halves on a GF and brewing with a mate. Would be nice to make 2x20L batches from one 25L brew.
> 
> do many people do this? would have to dilute a high gravity wort, then split into 2x20L batches to ferment and dry hop at our respective homes.
> 
> im guessing a larger hop profile will be needed to compensate for the dilution as well.
> 
> is there calculators out there to work out dilution amounts etc?


yes. here's one.

http://www.brewersfriend.com/dilution-and-boiloff-gravity-calculator/


----------



## Coldspace

d3vour3r said:


> i plan on going halves on a GF and brewing with a mate. Would be nice to make 2x20L batches from one 25L brew.
> 
> do many people do this? would have to dilute a high gravity wort, then split into 2x20L batches to ferment and dry hop at our respective homes.
> 
> im guessing a larger hop profile will be needed to compensate for the dilution as well.
> 
> is there calculators out there to work out dilution amounts etc?


Look up my posts on double batches in GF. I do these all the time to get 2 cubes at around 1048-1050 beers. Works a treat.
Sorry I can't provide a link, I'm on iPad , but someone else may point you in the right direction. I did a big write up on the steps.

Cheers


----------



## Gloveski

Coldspace said:


> I double batch always with Grainfather , same time but get 2 cubes.
> I start with 23 ltrs, at strike temp then leave on mash low heat setting while stirring in,then slowly mash in my 8.5 to 9 kgs max of grains, slow and steady stir and stab with paddle up and down like mixing up concrete.
> Usually once I've stirred in about 7 kgs of grain, I swing the top pipe over the top of the grain bed, start pump, and pump approx 2 -3 ltrs of water ontop.
> This then makes it much easier to mash the final 2 kgs in.
> I usually then mash for 75 mins and do 20 min mash out at 78. This helps with sparging.
> Then, I just keep sparging till I see it dripped upto the 30 ltr mark.
> I then place the malt pipe into an old esky and sparge it with another 6 ltrs of water and just let the last goodness run out into esky while I boil. You can take top plate of, give the grain a stir and sparge with final water, I find I get the last sugars totally out. Then Usually about 7 to 8 ltrs trickles out into esky which works out perfect for top ups and keeps efficiency up. Sit the malt pipe ontop of a Tupperware container etc to keep it off the floor of esky or bucket to catch second sparge runnings.
> I then use this final runnings to top up the boil while doing my additions,
> Just top up slowly so the boil is not killed, or I have an immersion heater from my previous brewing days which is use to ramp up the temps in between strike and boils to save time.
> When my boil is done, I top right to top , about 10mm from lip with runnings or boiled water .
> I then wait for the temp to drop to about 90-92 degrees, then pump straight into 2 x 15 ltr cubes that I saved from fresh wort kits, or you can buy 15 ltr containers.
> The full double batch Grainfather fills 2 of these perfectly to the top.
> Seal, and leave, I also add my hop additions I would normally use at sub 15 mark into little hop socks straight into the cubes.
> What I have now is an over gravity for style 15 ltr cube, actually more like 16 lts.
> When time to ferment, I dump into fermenter and top up to 21 ltrs.
> I usually get OG of 1.046 to 1.048 which is plenty for me, and I get 2 x 19 ltr kegs from one cook up.
> Last sat, while doing yard work etc, I got 2 double batches , so 4 cubes of a nice pilsener and pale ale , and allowing for my immersion heater to save time and everything took about 7 hrs.start to cleaned and packed up. Also managed to mow yard and take kids to shops in between mash times to keep SWMBO happy. Lol
> Espescially using no chill, saves heaps of water and about 30 mins per Cook up. It's a no brainer.
> Unless doing a high grav brew, double batch all the way.
> I've done about 25-30 double batches now, and works a treat.
> Hope this helps.


----------



## Gloveski

Presume this is what you were talking about coldspace great info


----------



## wide eyed and legless

That's a pretty stiff mash, 9 kg to 23 litres of water, I would be concerned about running it dry under the FB.


----------



## Coldspace

wide eyed and legless said:


> That's a pretty stiff mash, 9 kg to 23 litres of water, I would be concerned about running it dry under the FB.


It's on limits, but I've done over 60 of these to date and works a treat. Worst outcome was when I had a poor ebay crusher, averaged 1043-1044 per 44 ltrs after dilution . Sparging was a bitch especially with rye or heaps of wheat, local brewshops crushed grain including some from site sponsors averaged 1046 upto 1050 looking over my notes,Now with my fluted mill I achieve 1050 to 1054 grav on average at 44 ltrs. Sparging with the mash using the twin fluted is a breeze now, takes 10-15 mins. This grav is Plenty for standard ales and lagers. I've perfected my high grav mashes and even when on the rare occasion I just do the standard 4.5 kg bill for say 23 ltrs there's bugger all diff in the grav and flavour outcome , these 44 ltr batches out of one gf cook up are Perfect size for my 50 ltr kegmenters .

This method makes the most out of the grain father. For bigger beers single batches are best.

We now run 2 g/f here at my brewshed. Have a brew fri nite, over night mash (tks to Batz tips), first batch boiled and done by 9 am, second batches away, all cleaned up by early sat arvo and we have 8 cubes done.

Plenty for me , brother and close mate.

I also have to state, these twin fluted mills are simply the gun in grain prep. No ifs or buts...

Cheers


----------



## Gloveski

Coldspace said:


> It's on limits, but I've done over 60 of these to date and works a treat. Worst outcome was when I had a poor ebay crusher, averaged 1043-1044 per 44 ltrs after dilution . Sparging was a bitch especially with rye or heaps of wheat, local brewshops crushed grain including some from site sponsors averaged 1046 upto 1050 looking over my notes,Now with my fluted mill I achieve 1050 to 1054 grav on average at 44 ltrs. Sparging with the mash using the twin fluted is a breeze now, takes 10-15 mins. This grav is Plenty for standard ales and lagers. I've perfected my high grav mashes and even when on the rare occasion I just do the standard 4.5 kg bill for say 23 ltrs there's bugger all diff in the grav and flavour outcome , these 44 ltr batches out of one gf cook up are Perfect size for my 50 ltr kegmenters .
> 
> This method makes the most out of the grain father. For bigger beers single batches are best.
> 
> We now run 2 g/f here at my brewshed. Have a brew fri nite, over night mash (tks to Batz tips), first batch boiled and done by 9 am, second batches away, all cleaned up by early sat arvo and we have 8 cubes done.
> 
> Plenty for me , brother and close mate.
> 
> I also have to state, these twin fluted mills are simply the gun in grain prep. No ifs or buts...
> 
> Cheers



Interesting overnight mash is that mentioned in this thread coldspace.........................great guide by the way will definately use this when I have a house beer sorted out with working away if I can get two kegs worth in one day is winning for me


----------



## Gloveski

grain father recipe creator is up and running should be good to export straight to connect brew.grainfather.com is the link


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Coldspace, how are you working out your salt additions with all that grain and so little water, are you lowering the pH of the sparge water,and how long does it take to sparge? 
If you did two separate batches with no sparge then you would be saving time, plus getting a better beer, less chance of polyphenols and tannins, it may mean that you lose efficiency but you are losing efficiency anyway.


----------



## Coldspace

wide eyed and legless said:


> Coldspace, how are you working out your salt additions with all that grain and so little water, are you lowering the pH of the sparge water,and how long does it take to sparge?
> If you did two separate batches with no sparge then you would be saving time, plus getting a better beer, less chance of polyphenols and tannins, it may mean that you lose efficiency but you are losing efficiency anyway.


Water additions are calculated for 23 ltrs. ph is basically the same as when using 15 ltrs and 4.5 kgs. Well at least on my test strips.
It basically a high grav brew, the g/f was designed to carry upto 9 kgs for big beers anyway, so for standard grav, we basically just water it down at the end to get 1050-1054 or thereabouts , get 2 kegs from one batch. Great for standard ales and lagers.
Bigger beers you only get one batch per Cook up.

Efficiency , lol, it may be like 3-5 % down on going smaller batches, but who really cares about 3%, I'm not that much of a tight arse to worry about a few hundred grams of grain , lol. I'm still getting full strength beers 44 ltrs out of 8.8 to 9 kgs of grain , plenty, you do need a good crush.

Tannins etc, the quality has been the same, got plenty of piss head mates who line up at my taps and love the beers, the boys who work for me get on it every Friday arvo. 
Plenty of quality . I've been brewing for 25 years and the quality these days with good equipment has made leaps and bounds.

It's a great technique to get 2 cornies plus 5 ltr mini keg out of one batch, a few others have tried this and it works great. I used to high grav brew in my extract days, double malts, double hops, brew up, and either , water down and ferment , or ferment high grav,, then water down and keg. Works good if you have all processes down. Plenty of my beers have been to engagements, 30ths, 21sts , 40ths etc , 
Sparging, now using the 9 kg mashes, using grain crushed with my twin fluted mill takes 15 or so minutes, sparging basically done it the same speed as the g/f urn tap can fill container . I have the older urns from g/f so the taps fill alittle slower. But 15 mins is fine, especially when sparging 2 g/fathers simultaneously 

If wanting to try a new receipe, then standard single batch is recommended , but high grav brewing is another great way to knock out big batches, it's nothing new, people around the world have done this.

How's the Guten? Can you do 9 kgs and high grav mash in them? Give it ago and report back.


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Well as the Guten has a higher volume than the GF, yes you can do a high gravity beer, the manufacturer does recommend no more than 8kg and on the forums most GF users say 9 kg is pushing the limits.If I was to do a double batch I would be doing two separate 60 minute mashes, no sparge and no mash out. Tip the grain into another malt pipe empty the wort into a fermenter and do the second mash, again no mash out or sparge.
Put the first wort back into the Guten and boil both at the same time (40 litre boiling capacity) hop additions just can't be doubled because of the gravity of the wort so it has to be worked out what the hop additions should be.
The grain bill would be higher than normal because of efficiency loss with the method I would use whereas if you are getting 1050 to 1054 you aren't losing much efficiency at all, even with a 15 minute, 15 or 16 litre sparge, so between the two there is not a great deal of difference in time.
Did you use Beersmith, Brewer's Friend or some other program to work out the schedule and hop additions?


----------



## Coldspace

Beersmith for additions,

Plus experience in lots of batches plus taking lots of notes works wonders .

Good luck with the brewing.


----------



## Mr_Brewer

hi there i need to know what model of the grainfather is the latest model and is there any new models coming out and weather i should i wait or get one now and if any problem i should fix when buying thanks


----------



## peteru

Wait.


----------



## Coodgee

Don't wait


----------



## wambesi

Mr_Brewer said:


> hi there i need to know what model of the grainfather is the latest model and is there any new models coming out and weather i should i wait or get one now and if any problem i should fix when buying thanks


Our current model is the version with the Bluetooth controller and rest assured there are no new models being released for now. 

Buy!


----------



## peteru

I'd wait to see if there are any firmware updates for the Connect controller and for the new Android app to be released. The Android app is being rewritten because the first version wasn't working very well and iMake decided to cut their losses with that version and start from scratch rather than try to fix what they had. It was probably the right call, but it does mean that the full power of the Connect controller is not currently accessible to anyone not using a recent Apple iOS device. (BTW: I contacted iMake asking for information so that I could develop Linux software to talk to the Connect controller, but they are not interested.)

The Connect controller has bugs, like intermittently cutting out the pump and heating, the temperature readout getting stuck or being unable to exit step mash mode without having to turn the unit off and on. Some people also report that they have to power cycle the unit if their Bluetooth device goes out of range, since they can not re-establish connection. It is not clear if it is possible for the end user to upgrade the Connect controller or if it needs to be done at the factory. If you are not in a hurry to buy right now, I'd give it a few months until iMake sort out the controller and app issues.

You might also consider an alternative brand. The Grainfather has some worthy competition these days - units that are similar in design, but at much lower price point. If you are an Android user, the Connect controller in it's current state is no better than controllers on other units.


----------



## Gloveski

Double brew day yesterday

All went well except heaps of grain in the boil again , getting over having to seive out all the grain during the boil.

3 different suppliers and 1 grainfather kit and I have had the same problem with all , its got to be the bottom plate or seal .........email time I think 40 minutes of seiving is not fun

hit target on a smash , and missed by 2 points on a Rogers Clone due to my fault for not checking beersmith water calcs with the grainfather one was 2 litres different so ended up with a litre and a half extra in fermenter and colour nor right.
Hopefully it will still taste ok


----------



## Gloveski

Personally I have only had 1 issue with the controller on 1 brew it took about 40 minutes to get to mash out temp Just sat at 74 
Last few have worked fine so not sure what happened


----------



## Mr_Brewer

hi all i have just done this as a test i have had the grain in a plastic container for the last 3 years in a back cardboard and i could not bring my self to throw them out so test it is .......
after buying a grainfather toady i decided to give this a go i had bit in the fridge
see photo
also 1st time i have made a recipe in beersmith

so let me know what i have done wrong ??
and why do these photo are all over the place
they are the ok on my computer sorry


----------



## sixfignig

A recent turn of events means I have a Grainfather coming.

I'm "side-grading" from a homemade 1V system, so familiar with processes.

As someone who has come from a similar system, are there any "gotchas" I should look out for or general tips?

I've also attached a few screenshots of a Grainfather profile I've picked up off the internet for BeerSmith. Any advice on this configuration?


----------



## Gloveski

sixfignig said:


> A recent turn of events means I have a Grainfather coming.
> 
> I'm "side-grading" from a homemade 1V system, so familiar with processes.
> 
> As someone who has come from a similar system, are there any "gotchas" I should look out for or general tips?
> 
> I've also attached a few screenshots of a Grainfather profile I've picked up off the internet for BeerSmith. Any advice on this configuration?


I would still double check water levels with the grainfather calculators . I seem to get different levels with the grainfather profile I use in beersmith.
Haven't quite got mine dialed in as yet


----------



## nfragol

With Beersmith's newest update (2.3) water calculations for mash and sparge are spot on.


----------



## Gloveski

nfragol said:


> With Beersmith's newest update (2.3) water calculations for mash and sparge are spot on.


Ok will have to try that thanks for the heads up


----------



## SixStar

I love my Grainfather!!!! 
Yesterday got 91% efficiency on an IIPA with OG of 1.078. 
Made the recipes online (copied a Heady Topper) and the connect walked me through it. 
Seriously this is what technology is all about!!!


----------



## SixStar

sixfignig said:


> A recent turn of events means I have a Grainfather coming.
> 
> I'm "side-grading" from a homemade 1V system, so familiar with processes.
> 
> As someone who has come from a similar system, are there any "gotchas" I should look out for or general tips?
> 
> I've also attached a few screenshots of a Grainfather profile I've picked up off the internet for BeerSmith. Any advice on this configuration?


Go with 90 minutes mash. You'll get better efficiency than 75%. I got 91% yesterday.
Sparge SLOWLY, makes a big difference. Still
Do your mash out too.

Put the top plate down on the grain a little more firmly. Seems to help.

Too fine of a crush is not a good thing in my opinion. 

Make sure sparge water is the right temp too. I sparge with 79c water. I've also made a screen from aluminum foil and a large strainer that trickles the water down onto the bed.

I whirlpool also.

Don't take short cuts cleaning the chiller. Let that thing circulate pbw water at 60c for at least 30 minutes. You want to keep that thing spotless. 

PS lemon is your best friend. Cut one in half and use it to scrub anything that has caked on your element or whatever. It will eat through it is seconds, no kidding.

You are going to love it!!!!


----------



## fletcher

i've seen a guy on the Facebook page using a false bottom with his GF. anyone else use one too with success? I'm considering getting one - figure it can't hurt with hoppy beers.


----------



## SixStar

fletcher said:


> i've seen a guy on the Facebook page using a false bottom with his GF. anyone else use one too with success? I'm considering getting one - figure it can't hurt with hoppy beers.


I don't know why you need that. The new filter design works fine.


----------



## SixStar

Guys check all the screws on your counterflow chillers because I found some loose ones this weekend. 
Nothing catastrophic but if I wouldn't have tightened them up I might not have found them again.


----------



## Chridech

SixStar said:


> I love my Grainfather!!!!
> Yesterday got 91% efficiency on an IIPA with OG of 1.078.
> Made the recipes online (copied a Heady Topper) and the connect walked me through it.
> Seriously this is what technology is all about!!!


Are you using the Grainfather online (mash) efficiency calculator for this figure?
Try plugging your grainbill weights and post sparge volume into the Brewer's Friend (link on this site) efficiency calculator or
BeerSmith for comparison.


----------



## Dan Pratt

fletcher said:


> i've seen a guy on the Facebook page using a false bottom with his GF. anyone else use one too with success? I'm considering getting one - figure it can't hurt with hoppy beers.


hey Fletcher, 

i was at a blokes apartment a few weekends ago and he had hacked the controller on the GF to run through and entire mash and boil cycle without having to manually make changes during the brew, like the BM does.


----------



## SixStar

Pratty1 said:


> hey Fletcher,
> 
> i was at a blokes apartment a few weekends ago and he had hacked the controller on the GF to run through and entire mash and boil cycle without having to manually make changes during the brew, like the BM does.


You must mean that his GF has the new connect controller and he used the new GF brewer community website to create then load his brews profile into the controller???


----------



## kaiserben

It was my apartment that Pratty1 was at. 

I haven't got the Connect controller. 

I bought an STC1000 and reprogrammed it by flashing the software with STC1000p/ovbsc. 

"How to" details here: https://github.com/matsstaff/stc1000p

And specific details on using it here: https://github.com/matsstaff/stc1000p/tree/master/ovbsc 

It probably ended up costing me ~$70 due to all the bits and pieces (and postage) required. I did this way before the Connect was released.


----------



## SixStar

kaiserben said:


> It was my apartment that Pratty1 was at.
> 
> I haven't got the Connect controller.
> 
> I bought an STC1000 and reprogrammed it by flashing the software with STC1000p/ovbsc.
> 
> "How to" details here: https://github.com/matsstaff/stc1000p
> 
> And specific details on using it here: https://github.com/matsstaff/stc1000p/tree/master/ovbsc
> 
> It probably ended up costing me ~$70 due to all the bits and pieces (and postage) required. I did this way before the Connect was released.


Wow many, that's crazy well done! Show us some pics of this Frankenfather.


----------



## kaiserben

It looks exactly the same (because I simply replaced the original ST200 that was inside the controller box for the flashed STC1000).


----------



## Gloveski

Another brew done today , all went pretty well , had my first stuck sparge so had to stir the grain up a few times. Still grain in the boil but used to using the sieve now . 85% Efficiency and ended up with a slightly higher OG . Pretty easy to use after 5 brews , very happy with my purchase


----------



## harvesteros

Hey all, just got hold of my grainfather after doing BIAB for a while. Interested to hear peoples experiences with recipes, not 100% sure where to start. The connect app has some built in but keen to hear from experience what might be a good tasting beer to start off with. Cheers!


----------



## meathead

Try the app ones they're tried and tested to the equipment, or you can find a beersmith profile in this thread and use another.
Good luck


----------



## jyo

Just treat it like any other brewing vessel and brew what you want, mate.


----------



## harvesteros

Ok, cheers guys I'll do that.


----------



## Mr_Brewer

just trying to find out if anyone has had this problem with the grainfather

i did a single 4.5kg of Joe White Pale Malt 27l water and 4l of sparge water
problem was did not get to a good boil and would only get to 91dg
all in all i brewed it for 90mins and in the fridge see what happens ?

today i tryed the same again to see if any problems and bugger me it would not get over 40dg
so i had to transfer all out to see if it was suck some how or what so clean it all out bugger of a job tipped it upside pushed the reset button and tried again and it worked to 67dg and sat there again farkk
did the same but only tipped it on its side a bit and push button and of it went again to 95dg and sat there
so be sides hitting with hammer any one had this problem.


----------



## Hate_Thinking_Up_Usernames

I have made a stand for my Grainfather so that I can easily press the reset button without moving it. Also trying to keep protein/other matter off the bottom seems to help with getting to boil quicker.


----------



## BKBrews

Mr_Brewer said:


> just trying to find out if anyone has had this problem with the grainfather
> 
> i did a single 4.5kg of Joe White Pale Malt 27l water and 4l of sparge water
> problem was did not get to a good boil and would only get to 91dg
> all in all i brewed it for 90mins and in the fridge see what happens ?
> 
> today i tryed the same again to see if any problems and bugger me it would not get over 40dg
> so i had to transfer all out to see if it was suck some how or what so clean it all out bugger of a job tipped it upside pushed the reset button and tried again and it worked to 67dg and sat there again farkk
> did the same but only tipped it on its side a bit and push button and of it went again to 95dg and sat there
> so be sides hitting with hammer any one had this problem.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20170504_165619.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 20170504_165626.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 20170504_165630.jpg


If you're pressing the reset button and it's fixing the issue, then you're obviously tripping the element. I would be scraping it as much as you can - it generally stops when it has proteins burnt onto it during the mash/sparge. As soon as you remove the Malt pipe after sparge - start scraping the element. It's part of the safety mechanism for not burning out with no liquid in it.


----------



## peteru

It looks like your crush is too fine and has lots of flour. This will settle at the bottom and cause the element to overheat (as well as eventually burning onto the bottom surface and tainting the beer)

Also, what are you using to calculate your mash and sparge water volumes. The numbers you give seem wrong. You should have a lot less mash water and a lot more sparge water.


----------



## Mr_Brewer

ok thanks for that
ill try another tomorrow and see if it dose the same thing
i tryed to day and it cut out any way with just water but i am going to drill hole in the trolley so easier to push the reset lol
Also it was not burnt on the inside at all but will let you know tomorrow night thanks

now have 2 maybe brews and may be its 3rd time lucky


----------



## wormholehenry

Hi, guys.

I have been brewing on and off for around 7 years. I'm developing some pretty decent recipes, and finally decided to go all grain, which I think you'll agree I'm long overdo for.

So, I bought a Grainfather and have been tinkering with Beersmith (downloading other people's equipment profiles, etc) to get everything ready.

Apparently, I mistakenly believed that it would be easy to convert my recipes to all grain recipes and get to work quickly here. I expected the slight variations in gravity that different equipment profiles and all grain would give me, but I did NOT expect my IBUs to be all out of whack (at least in Beersmith and on the Grainfather site). I thought after going through the process of mashing and sparging this thing would function like a high-tech brew pot and that I could proceed more or less as usual.

Importing recipes to Grainfather did not help. I have had to cut my hop additions in HALF in order to balance this out. But, that just doesn't seem right to me. I think it has something to do with the fact that my boil volume is a lot larger in the GF than it was in my old 3 gallon brewpot... But, I am concerned that I'll end up with a lot of weird beer if I just start knocking my hop additions in half. In the meantime, I'm afraid to try to brew anything.

In the past I had converted all grain recipes to extract recipes and never had to worry about correcting the amount of hops I used. What am I missing here? I have no idea what I'm doing, and worst of all, sensing that I'm in over my head because I'm on the laptop instead of using my new toy, my wife is pissed.


----------



## warra48

wormholehenry said:


> Hi, guys.
> 
> I have been brewing on and off for around 7 years. I'm developing some pretty decent recipes, and finally decided to go all grain, which I think you'll agree I'm long overdo for.
> 
> So, I bought a Grainfather and have been tinkering with Beersmith (downloading other people's equipment profiles, etc) to get everything ready.
> 
> Apparently, I mistakenly believed that it would be easy to convert my recipes to all grain recipes and get to work quickly here. I expected the slight variations in gravity that different equipment profiles and all grain would give me, but I did NOT expect my IBUs to be all out of whack (at least in Beersmith and on the Grainfather site). I thought after going through the process of mashing and sparging this thing would function like a high-tech brew pot and that I could proceed more or less as usual.
> 
> Importing recipes to Grainfather did not help. I have had to cut my hop additions in HALF in order to balance this out. But, that just doesn't seem right to me. I think it has something to do with the fact that my boil volume is a lot larger in the GF than it was in my old 3 gallon brewpot... But, I am concerned that I'll end up with a lot of weird beer if I just start knocking my hop additions in half. In the meantime, I'm afraid to try to brew anything.
> 
> In the past I had converted all grain recipes to extract recipes and never had to worry about correcting the amount of hops I used. What am I missing here? I have no idea what I'm doing, and worst of all, sensing that I'm in over my head because I'm on the laptop instead of using my new toy, my wife is pissed.


A large volume boil will always have a better utilisation of your hops than a smaller volume. This is built into the BS2 (which I use) calculations, and I guess into other software programs. My advice is to trust the software for your first brew, then adjust if you feel the need for your own results.


----------



## SmuggledBudgie

wormholehenry said:


> Hi, guys.
> 
> I have been brewing on and off for around 7 years. I'm developing some pretty decent recipes, and finally decided to go all grain, which I think you'll agree I'm long overdo for.
> 
> So, I bought a Grainfather and have been tinkering with Beersmith (downloading other people's equipment profiles, etc) to get everything ready.
> 
> Apparently, I mistakenly believed that it would be easy to convert my recipes to all grain recipes and get to work quickly here. I expected the slight variations in gravity that different equipment profiles and all grain would give me, but I did NOT expect my IBUs to be all out of whack (at least in Beersmith and on the Grainfather site). I thought after going through the process of mashing and sparging this thing would function like a high-tech brew pot and that I could proceed more or less as usual.
> 
> Importing recipes to Grainfather did not help. I have had to cut my hop additions in HALF in order to balance this out. But, that just doesn't seem right to me. I think it has something to do with the fact that my boil volume is a lot larger in the GF than it was in my old 3 gallon brewpot... But, I am concerned that I'll end up with a lot of weird beer if I just start knocking my hop additions in half. In the meantime, I'm afraid to try to brew anything.
> 
> In the past I had converted all grain recipes to extract recipes and never had to worry about correcting the amount of hops I used. What am I missing here? I have no idea what I'm doing, and worst of all, sensing that I'm in over my head because I'm on the laptop instead of using my new toy, my wife is pissed.



Hey Wormy,

Have you experimented with the different hop utilisations formulas in Beer Smith?

If not, to find these In BS2 go to Preferences>Bitterness. There is three different options to use for the bitterness formula, all will result in a different IBU for a given amounts of hops. I only discovered this after making several recipes from Brewing Classic Styles which came out unbalanced and very bitter. After some further investigation, I found BS2 defaults to Tinseth while the recipes were made using the Rager formula - changing this setting solved my problem to within a few IBUs of the original recipe.

SB


----------



## Gloveski

SmuggledBudgie said:


> Hey Wormy,
> 
> Have you experimented with the different hop utilisations formulas in Beer Smith?
> 
> If not, to find these In BS2 go to Preferences>Bitterness. There is three different options to use for the bitterness formula, all will result in a different IBU for a given amounts of hops. I only discovered this after making several recipes from Brewing Classic Styles which came out unbalanced and very bitter. After some further investigation, I found BS2 defaults to Tinseth while the recipes were made using the Rager formula - changing this setting solved my problem to within a few IBUs of the original recipe.
> 
> SB


hmmmn best I check some of my upcoming recipes thanks for the heads up


----------



## kaiserben

I'm looking at doing a couple of mini-batches (let's say about 8L target volume into fermenter). 

I don't have (and would rather not have to buy) the mini pipe work. 

Should I use heaps of rice hulls to make sure of good flow (assuming wort level won't reach the overflow inlet?) 

Or could I do full volume (ie no sparge) mash? Would that see the wort level reach the overflow inlet? 

Any tips from those who've done such small batches?


----------



## meathead

I've got the new connect control box and I've noticed whenever I program a mash out it will move towards the temp say 78c and when it gets to 76/77 the heat applied will drop to say 50% then increase again and then drop again as if it doesn't want to overshoot.

This goes on for about 5 minutes 

Any suggestions?


----------



## peteru

Make sure your element switch is on full blast, not the mash setting. If you are brewing in a cold or draughty area, insulate.


----------



## meathead

peteru said:


> Make sure your element switch is on full blast, not the mash setting. If you are brewing in a cold or draughty area, insulate.



Yeah thanks but covered all that


----------



## peteru

I guess if it wasn't the obvious things, it may be time to contact imake tech support. Good luck.


----------



## breaky

Hi all, I've just acquired a grainfather and am wondering how you guys connect the red hot water out tube to a garden hose. Anyone done this?

Thanks all

Mark


----------



## fletcher

sorry if this has been answered or discussed but i searched and wasn't able to find anything.

i'm doing a rice lager and using 20% minute rice (1kg). has anyone done similar and if so, was your sparge okay? any experiences or recommendations would be a big help!


----------



## doctr-dan

Any advice or methods when doing banco to back brews? 
Do you need to fully clean the grainfather prior to starting your next brew or a rinse is fine?


----------



## sirosis

Just got a new grainfather connect and I can't seem to establish a Bluetooth connection, tried three different devices but no go, any things I may be doing wrong.


----------



## kaiserben

After 95 brews my CFC has sprung an internal leak. Unfortunately I've past the warranty period.

I was about to brew something when I noticed water coming out where it shouldn't. And it explains why the previous batch ended up being 25L into the fermenter instead of 23L ... (and I assume I probably picked up an infection there too, although I'm yet to taste this batch). 

RIP CFC.


----------



## Mr_Brewer

grainfather connect 
make sure you have the new app not the old app old app did not work for me 
https://itunes.apple.com/au/app/grainfather-connect/id1169264880?mt=8
i have tried the new one and works well with note4 and my iPad and from my Dropbox it Imported recipe upload as XML file from beersmith


----------



## Coodgee

doctr-dan said:


> Any advice or methods when doing banco to back brews?
> Do you need to fully clean the grainfather prior to starting your next brew or a rinse is fine?



Quick rinse seems fine to me. Makes for a long day but you do save some time with only having to do a full clean up once. I have a 40L urn that I can use to boil the wort while I start mashing the second batch in the grainfather. so that's what I do for double batches. 



kaiserben said:


> After 95 brews my CFC has sprung an internal leak. Unfortunately I've past the warranty period.
> 
> I was about to brew something when I noticed water coming out where it shouldn't. And it explains why the previous batch ended up being 25L into the fermenter instead of 23L ... (and I assume I probably picked up an infection there too, although I'm yet to taste this batch).
> 
> RIP CFC.



That sucks man. I think the new CFC are a bit better quality anyway so you will be getting a small upgrade if you get a new one.


----------



## suffolk

breaky said:


> Hi all, I've just acquired a grainfather and am wondering how you guys connect the red hot water out tube to a garden hose. Anyone done this?
> 
> Thanks all
> 
> Mark


The red pipe is the waste water, you don't connect it to a hose


----------



## breaky

As I'm brewing inside I want to send the hot water outside and use it to clean my gear with


----------



## BKBrews

Just thought I'd put this here for anyone struggling with efficiency issues. I have started turning off my pump during the mash, about every 10min, and letting the water above the top plate filter back down through the grain bed. I never really had issues with efficiency, however I've gone from pretty much bang on 73% BH efficiency in every batch, to 75% - 80% in every batch regardless of the SG. I attribute part of this to lowering the pH of my sparge water as well, but I think it plays a part.

Last two brews -
Munich Helles: aiming for SG 1.048 with 76% efficiency - ended up with 1.050
Indian Helles Bock (pitched straight onto the above cake): got bang on 1.068 with 75% efficiency. 7.91kg of grain FYI.


----------



## wildwhitty

Leaving the pump running will ensure you have maximum flow though the grain. Switching it off allows the water level to drop, reducing head pressure above grain. Water flowing down the overflow ensures the wort temperature above the grain is correct. Both good for efficiency.


----------



## Gloveski

I'm getting a consistent 80% efficiency last 5 or 6 brews . All I have done is add between 1.5 to 2 litres more to the mash for a 21 litre batch , great bit of kit.
I also had issues with grain in the boil I tried using a BIAB for a couple of brews , more pain than its worth for me ended up with water and grain stuck in the bag causing a stuck mash and the element to trip. 
I have found that my last lot of hop additions I will put straight into boil (I bag the rest) this creates a great natural filter. I use a fine sieve to aerate the wort into fermenter and this also catches the first bit of grain and trub , but after a few minutes the wort is usually nice and clear


----------



## Gloveski

fletcher said:


> sorry if this has been answered or discussed but i searched and wasn't able to find anything.
> 
> i'm doing a rice lager and using 20% minute rice (1kg). has anyone done similar and if so, was your sparge okay? any experiences or recommendations would be a big help!



How did you go with this fletcher ?


----------



## fletcher

Gloveski said:


> How did you go with this fletcher ?



sadly i haven't got to brew it yet - it's on the list now with thousands of others but i'll be brewing it before too long. i recently did a wheat beer with 50% wheat and 50% ale, and used about 200gm rice hulls. there was no issue at all with the sparge. i'll definitely be using them for any beers that use a lot of wheat, rice, or rye. i'm sure i could get away without them but they're cheap and easy to use and i'd rather not run the risk


----------



## pnorkle

Mr_Brewer said:


> just trying to find out if anyone has had this problem with the grainfather
> 
> i did a single 4.5kg of Joe White Pale Malt 27l water and 4l of sparge water
> problem was did not get to a good boil and would only get to 91dg
> all in all i brewed it for 90mins and in the fridge see what happens ?
> 
> today i tryed the same again to see if any problems and bugger me it would not get over 40dg
> so i had to transfer all out to see if it was suck some how or what so clean it all out bugger of a job tipped it upside pushed the reset button and tried again and it worked to 67dg and sat there again farkk
> did the same but only tipped it on its side a bit and push button and of it went again to 95dg and sat there
> so be sides hitting with hammer any one had this problem.


Hi Mr_B - I can't comment on the reset switch tripping, but as for the boil only getting to 95degrees, as someone else mentioned, make sure you have the switch on the bottom set to "Normal," not "Mash"... AND - if the power cord is hanging too close to the GF, it will not reach boiling (cord heats up, will affect power flow to element.) so make sure it's sitting away from the boiler.
Cheers.


----------



## dibbz

I always seem to end up with higher FG's on step mashed beers than calculated with the GF and recipes I follow. For example I just did AndrewQLD's no sugar coopers clone recipe which used 35/52/63/72/77 steps which in his recipe and the GF calc ends up about a 1.006 FG but I get 1.011, a 2 step starter from CPA bottles and healthy pitch rate and fermented at 16c, I should really get higher than 66% attenuation here.

And sure 35 mash in isn't required with fully modified malt and to be honest I wouldn't do it again as it just burns onto the element when it's heating. 

I have a suspicion/theory that the cause is the complexity of sugars being created, with step mashes when you heat between steps you are heating wort well above the mash temp and using that to transfer the heat into the malt pipe through the pump and heating the grist. 

Anyone else experienced this? Thought/ideas?


----------



## fishingbrad

So my GF is over 2 yrs old now and are having problems with the filter cap coming off during whirlpool. it seems tight enough fit on the filter body. I should mention I whirlpool clockwise. (and no I'm not hitting the filter with the paddle). maybe if I whirlpool anticlockwise. So, time for a replacement ? anyone else having this issue? remedies- stainless cable tie?


----------



## Coldspace

fishingbrad said:


> So my GF is over 2 yrs old now and are having problems with the filter cap coming off during whirlpool. it seems tight enough fit on the filter body. I should mention I whirlpool clockwise. (and no I'm not hitting the filter with the paddle). maybe if I whirlpool anticlockwise. So, time for a replacement ? anyone else having this issue? remedies- stainless cable tie?


Is it the old model filter cap? Like a single piece
Or newer model which had the rubber end cap and is longer horizontal?

I have both models g/fathers but haven't gotten around to buying the new filter part for my old original model, but I should as the new one is better.

Reminds me, I will get it . Every time we run both fathers I spew I haven't bought the new filter part for the old unit. Ha ha


----------



## fishingbrad

It's the newer model with the black silicon cap on the end. I put a stainless cable tie on last night so it's not coming off now.


----------



## wildwhitty

fishingbrad said:


> So my GF is over 2 yrs old now and are having problems with the filter cap coming off during whirlpool. it seems tight enough fit on the filter body. I should mention I whirlpool clockwise. (and no I'm not hitting the filter with the paddle). maybe if I whirlpool anticlockwise. So, time for a replacement ? anyone else having this issue? remedies- stainless cable tie?


Brad. If you have the newer T shape filter you can fit it with a stainless hose clamp. I put mine on with the silicone endcap firmlly aganst the thermowell. That prevents the cap being dislodged also.
Cheers.


----------



## HaveFun

how are you guys brewing double batches, a single 23l batch is not enough for me 

cheers
stefan


----------



## aamcle

The quickest way is to brew a high gravity wort, remember to correct for the change in hop utilisation, then dilute it with water at the fermentation stage. It's good practice to keep the S04/Cl ratio appropriate to the style in the water used for dilution.

Or 

The best way is to brew more often so you can have more variety in your brews.


ATB. aamcle


----------



## HaveFun

Sorry to ask but what is an S04/Cl ratio?


----------



## captsensible23

Anyone know how to bring the shine back to the sides of the boiler? I've tried boiling citric acid and also tried bar keepers friend. The bottom and the element are shiny, just the sides are like a matte finish. Cheers


----------



## wide eyed and legless

I thought it was a matte finish to start with. We are talking the inside?


----------



## captsensible23

wide eyed and legless said:


> I thought it was a matte finish to start with. We are talking the inside?



yeah the inside. I can't remember if it was at the beginning. I can make the outside shiny with the BKF. So I guessing maybe it was


----------



## Chridech

captsensible23 said:


> Anyone know how to bring the shine back to the sides of the boiler? I've tried boiling citric acid and also tried bar keepers friend. The bottom and the element are shiny, just the sides are like a matte finish. Cheers


Hot concentrated sodium percabonate solution and a nylon scourer has worked well for me, got the inside walls shiny again.


----------



## captsensible23

Chridech said:


> Hot concentrated sodium percabonate solution and a nylon scourer has worked well for me, got the inside walls shiny again.



Cheers. I'll give that a go after the next brew.


----------



## Coodgee

Don't know about getting it shiny but I get the brown beerstone/staining off by filling to the brim with a fair wack of napisan and boiling for a while and then soaking overnight. Comes up very clean.


----------



## captsensible23

So it’s fair to say. The interior of the boiler was never shiny or polished like the bottom or outside?


----------



## Coodgee

I don't know I never really noticed. Don't think it matters too much


----------



## razz

HaveFun said:


> Sorry to ask but what is an S04/Cl ratio?



Sulphate to chloride ratio.


----------



## Mzungu

I bought the grainfather connect this week to get back into brewing. I can't wait to try it tommorow!


----------



## HaveFun

Hi,

I got a question about sparging. 

I try to archive a high gravity wort which I can water down in the fermenter. To get 2 x corny kegs per brew.

The max grain bill I can do is 8.5kg but my mash efficiency is only around 65% to archive a higher efficiency I need more sparge water.

Can i use the grainfather pump to circulate 80-degree hot wort instead of hot sparge water?

Thanks

Cheers
Stefan


----------



## markp

HaveFun said:


> Hi,
> 
> I got a question about sparging.
> 
> I try to archive a high gravity wort which I can water down in the fermenter. To get 2 x corny kegs per brew.
> 
> The max grain bill I can do is 8.5kg but my mash efficiency is only around 65% to archive a higher efficiency I need more sparge water.
> 
> Can i use the grainfather pump to circulate 80-degree hot wort instead of hot sparge water?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Cheers
> Stefan



If it’s the temp you are worried about then yes, to sterilise the wort chiller they say to pump the wort through it with the pump immediately the boil is finished which would be just under 100 deg so 80 shouldn’t be an issue.


----------



## HaveFun

if I only use the pump without the chiller?

I like to recirculate the wort over the same mash

Thanks
Cheers Stefan


----------



## Mzungu

Hey guys, I don't have a mill so does anyone know a good online brew supply shop that has a good crush for the grainfather. Preferably QLD (for quick delivery)


----------



## Bendymann

Mzungu said:


> Hey guys, I don't have a mill so does anyone know a good online brew supply shop that has a good crush for the grainfather. Preferably QLD (for quick delivery)


I'd give "Country Brewer" a go. They do sell online (comes out of Sydney) but their stores have a great range of malts on hand. they can mill into one bag as a recipe or each grain into it's own bag.


----------



## dazz1975

Damaged the nylon washer for the conical fermenter where the hoses from the glycol chiller plugs in. It is currently leaking. I removed the washers. Does anyone know what size these washers are and do I need food grade or could I just drop down to the local hardware store to get new ones.


----------



## nfragol

You could try to use some teflon tape to wrap around the fitting.


----------



## HaveFun

Any idea if Grainfather will bring out a 50l or 65l version ?
As of the most of us, I have a kegging system and a corny keg holds 19l... so one brew with the grainfather gives me only one keg and a few extra litres.

My solution for this is that I use a large grain bill, around 8-9kg and I do a single mash 23l and sparge with 14-16l in the grainfather and sparge another 12l into a pot and boil it on the stove.

I end up with around 36l worth, ABV around 5.5%

Robobrew has a setup with 65l which sounds perfect for me, that's 3 corny kegs. For only $800 or Braumeister 50l for $3500. I believe there is space for a Grainfather 65l between the Kia and the Mercedes version. 

Cheers
Stefan


----------



## Nicko_Cairns

HaveFun said:


> Any idea if Grainfather will bring out a 50l or 65l version ?
> As of the most of us, I have a kegging system and a corny keg holds 19l... so one brew with the grainfather gives me only one keg and a few extra litres.
> 
> My solution for this is that I use a large grain bill, around 8-9kg and I do a single mash 23l and sparge with 14-16l in the grainfather and sparge another 12l into a pot and boil it on the stove.
> 
> I end up with around 36l worth, ABV around 5.5%
> 
> Robobrew has a setup with 65l which sounds perfect for me, that's 3 corny kegs. For only $800 or Braumeister 50l for $3500. I believe there is space for a Grainfather 65l between the Kia and the Mercedes version.
> 
> Cheers
> Stefan



Love it! Completely agree too.


----------



## Nicko_Cairns

Hi, great thread. I've read snippets and will have to browse through this whole thread when I have time.

A thing that has helped me, not really a problem but cleaning is much faster if you clean the CF chiller at the same time, attach the end of the recirc hose onto the end of the CF chiller (it pushes on tight), then you can clean and rinse both at the same time, saves doing them separately.


----------



## RedSproket

I did my first brew with the Grainfather Connect recently. It went really well with no major catastrophes.

A tip I have not seen before. I was able to share the display from a phone onto my TV . I had an Android phone plugged into a charger and cast it to a Chromecast plugged in to a TV.

This made it very easy for me to keep track of what was happening with the Grainfather Connect while I moved around the house during brew day. You might find this useful.

Here is a photo on the cleaning day.


----------



## Bonenose

Hi all, upgraded to a grainfather a while back and have to say I am struggling have had nothing but issues with the pump and filter every time I brew anything with any hops they block up and I cannot chill or transfer. Last brew was an IPA that I had to syphon into my fermenter at 70 degrees as I simply could not get any flow. Is it possible that I am missing something or doing something wrong?


----------



## wide eyed and legless

Bonenose said:


> Hi all, upgraded to a grainfather a while back and have to say I am struggling have had nothing but issues with the pump and filter every time I brew anything with any hops they block up and I cannot chill or transfer. Last brew was an IPA that I had to syphon into my fermenter at 70 degrees as I simply could not get any flow. Is it possible that I am missing something or doing something wrong?


See post 198 and wait and see how markp or any of the other Grainfather users went with it.
https://aussiehomebrewer.com/threads/lauter-helix.95579/page-10


----------



## Mattrox

I had been using the BS app and put in my own numbers for my GF profile. 

I haven't brewed in a long time, but noticed today that BS 3 has a grainfather profile. Has anyone used this ? Thoughts?


----------



## raturay

Bonenose said:


> Hi all, upgraded to a grainfather a while back and have to say I am struggling have had nothing but issues with the pump and filter every time I brew anything with any hops they block up and I cannot chill or transfer. Last brew was an IPA that I had to syphon into my fermenter at 70 degrees as I simply could not get any flow. Is it possible that I am missing something or doing something wrong?


Hi Bonenose
I just had this happen for the first time in 33 brews since I bought my GF. I brewed a Goose Island IPA so plenty of hops although I have brewed with more hops without having an issue. 
This time I decided to whirlpool for the first time and unknowingly knocked off the filter. The counter flow chiller clogged almost instantaneously although I didn’t know that was the problem at the time. I ended up using a syphon as well. Took forever to get to pitching temp.
I’ve never had a problem, despite the amount of hops, provided the filter stays on. 
I notice from one of David Heath’s brewing videos that he uses a hose clamp on his GF filter. I don’t really want to go this way as it’s so convenient for cleaning as it is. I’ll just be more careful stirring the wort and will probably forget about the whirlpool in future.


----------



## Kenf

Bendymann said:


> I'd give "Country Brewer" a go. They do sell online (comes out of Sydney) but their stores have a great range of malts on hand. they can mill into one bag as a recipe or each grain into it's own bag.


Country Trading Store ( on EBay) or National Home Brew - I use them both and they are great!


----------



## Kenf

Bonenose said:


> Hi all, upgraded to a grainfather a while back and have to say I am struggling have had nothing but issues with the pump and filter every time I brew anything with any hops they block up and I cannot chill or transfer. Last brew was an IPA that I had to syphon into my fermenter at 70 degrees as I simply could not get any flow. Is it possible that I am missing something or doing something wrong?


I use a hop spider and a little stainless steel tea strainer on the overflow, never had a drama. Occasionally I have tried to brew without them and yes the filter blocks but I have a stainless stirrer so I carefully scrape the top of the filter with that.
But like I said - use the other two and no dramas


----------



## Bonenose

Have done my last two brews with an immersion chiller which eliminates the problem completely. Pump of course worked like a champion for both of them. Now starting to wonder if I have a blockage in my CFC.


----------



## HaveFun

Grainfather counterflow wort chiller

my bore water temp here in Perth is around 22 degree.. I like to use an esky full of ice water to get to my pitching temp.

But im not sure what kind of pump i need ? Any suggestions?

thanks
Cheers
Stefan


----------



## Clevo

RedSproket said:


> I did my first brew with the Grainfather Connect recently. It went really well with no major catastrophes.
> 
> A tip I have not seen before. I was able to share the display from a phone onto my TV . I had an Android phone plugged into a charger and cast it to a Chromecast plugged in to a TV.
> 
> This made it very easy for me to keep track of what was happening with the Grainfather Connect while I moved around the house during brew day. You might find this useful.
> 
> Here is a photo on the cleaning day.
> 
> 
> View attachment 113209



Awesome idea there!


----------



## Bonenose

HaveFun said:


> Grainfather counterflow wort chiller
> 
> my bore water temp here in Perth is around 22 degree.. I like to use an esky full of ice water to get to my pitching temp.
> 
> But im not sure what kind of pump i need ? Any suggestions?
> 
> thanks
> Cheers
> Stefan



I use a magnetic drive pump bought from Kegking I think from memory. My esky has a 3/4 drain so used a reducer and it screws straight in. Works great have also used it screwed into a fermenter which I think is 1/2”.


----------



## amarks6

anyone else having trouble logging in to the Grainfather Brewing Community? Never had a problem before.


----------



## T5008

Mzungu said:


> Hey guys, I don't have a mill so does anyone know a good online brew supply shop that has a good crush for the grainfather. Preferably QLD (for quick delivery)



Hi Mzungu, give Hoppy Days a go. Great products, knowledge and service. Can all be done online and either picked up or delivered. Also the home of the 2018 AABC IPA champion so may also be able to assist you with a recipe in mind.

https://hoppydaysbrewingsupplies.com.au/


----------



## T5008

HaveFun said:


> how are you guys brewing double batches, a single 23l batch is not enough for me
> 
> cheers
> stefan



Hi Stefen, i'm in the same boat. I have been doing double brew days but that's a long 5-6hr day. What I am thinking is after my first sparge, transferring that wort in to an additional 25-30L boiler to boil while I start a new mash on the GF. Looking at the MJ/Turbo500 boiler, my only issue is no filter on the boiler which will be an issue for anything with a decent hop profile. I'll be cubing so cooling wont be an issue for me. 

Anyone else have any ideas in mind they wouldn't mind sharing?


----------



## HaveFun

I use an 8kg to 9kg grain bill, mash with 24l water and sparge with 14l into the grainfather. Then I lift the mash basket out and put it on top of a pot and sparge with another 12l and boil the pot on my stove. 

I end up with 36l wort OG 1.065 which I ferment in 2 corny kegs

Cheers
Stefan


----------



## T5008

HaveFun said:


> I use an 8kg to 9kg grain bill, mash with 24l water and sparge with 14l into the grainfather. Then I lift the mash basket out and put it on top of a pot and sparge with another 12l and boil the pot on my stove.
> 
> I end up with 36l wort OG 1.065 which I ferment in 2 corny kegs
> 
> Cheers
> Stefan



Nice method. Do you find you have to compromise on efficiency given the large grain bill?


----------



## HaveFun

yes you are losing a bit on efficiency to compensate this I mash around 120 minutes.. and stir my mash from time to time


----------



## blibliboy

Has anyone found a source for npt to bpi or ⅜" ACME to bpi adaptors to allow ½" cam locks to fit between side tap and sparge arm? I cannot find anything on previous posts.


----------



## mord4z

Hey guys, someone can post a photo of the reset switch electrical installation? I need to replace this but forgot to take a shot before unmount lol


----------



## mord4z

Sorry, double post.


----------



## mord4z

Problem solved! I'll leave the part code and service manual for those who have the same problem.
Part code: *KSD301-PR 125c
*


----------



## mud13s

I have just bought a second hand Grainfather and any help is greatly appreciated, reading the whole thread over a few nights didn't answer my questions, doesn't mean the answers aren't there though!

1. Does anyone know what the thread is on top of the original discharge pipe before the upgrade to include the ball and safety valves?
2. The barbs on my chiller connection which which screws onto the discharge pipe is a bit cruddy, if it cannot be recovered does anyone know if the new connections currently on sale have the same thread?
3. Are the Chiller and Recirculation arm o-rings commonly available or do I need to buy them from Grainfather?
4. Will the ball valve screw onto my "original" discharge pipe, I am not worried about the safety valve and will keep using the brass cap if the ball valve fits.

Thank you for any replies.

Paul


----------



## Snowy

As an absolute novice I'm hoping theres a simple solution to my problem. I recently received a brand new grainfather connect and have set it up as per the instructions, filled it up to sterilize it and the pump wont work, the heating element works but not the pump, no sound at all coming from the pump so I'm assuming it's not getting power as its brand new and surely not faulty. Anyone got any ideas?


----------



## markp

Snowy said:


> As an absolute novice I'm hoping theres a simple solution to my problem. I recently received a brand new grainfather connect and have set it up as per the instructions, filled it up to sterilize it and the pump wont work, the heating element works but not the pump, no sound at all coming from the pump so I'm assuming it's not getting power as its brand new and surely not faulty. Anyone got any ideas?



Sometimes the pump will get an airlock, with cool water in the grainfather try connecting the chiller up, opening the ball valve and turn the pump on and suck on the chiller outlet hose. If it’s still not pumping take it back to where you purchased it from for a replacement.


----------



## Marcus

Snowy said:


> As an absolute novice I'm hoping theres a simple solution to my problem. I recently received a brand new grainfather connect and have set it up as per the instructions, filled it up to sterilize it and the pump wont work, the heating element works but not the pump, no sound at all coming from the pump so I'm assuming it's not getting power as its brand new and surely not faulty. Anyone got any ideas?



Hey mate. To prove if the pump is faulty or not swap the plug to the other side of the controller and set the heat on and see if the pump goes then.


----------



## Kenf

Here are the modifications I have made to my Grainfather. All parts came from the Robobrew V3


----------



## markp

Kenf said:


> Here are the modifications I have made to my Grainfather. All parts came from the Robobrew V3



Kenf I tried the lauter helix on my grainfather running off the pump pickup and it was a dismal failure, it worked well during mashing but as soon as a whirlfloc was added it blocked when trying to transfer through the chiller to fermenter.


----------



## Kenf

Thx for that! I actually fitted a Robobrew valve, but I have heard the other type Lauter helix can block up and I’m a bit concerned about how close the coils actually are. So I am going to do a trial.
I tried a bazooka last week so worst case scenario I can revert back to that or the Robobrew false bottom 
Cheers mate!


----------



## BKBrews

Mattrox said:


> I had been using the BS app and put in my own numbers for my GF profile.
> 
> I haven't brewed in a long time, but noticed today that BS 3 has a grainfather profile. Has anyone used this ? Thoughts?



hey mate, did you sort this out?

I had Beersmith 2 on my Apple desktop which was dialled in to match the grainfather app mash and sparge calculators. I'm currently living overseas but getting ready to move home and start brewing again, so I downloaded the beersmith iOS app. The grainfather profile that comes on it is rubbish, but I've managed to again fix it to mimic the actual calculators GF provide (which I've always found to be spot on).

Let me know if you need help with it. I used to brew 27L batches on the GF no dramas.


----------



## BKBrews

I couldn't find an exact answer when searching - has anyone replaced the silicone hose on their wort chiller? I'd be interested to know what ID the hose has.

Also, has anyone used the GF pump to fill a conical fermenter through the bottom dump port? Is it strong enough to do so, or will it back flow once the liquid level in the fermenter gets higher?

EDIT: Should clarify that I'm asking about the hose diameter as I am currently living away from my GF and cannot measure myself. My research suggests the ID is probably about 0.95cm.


----------



## find_another_slave

According to Grainfather, this https://www.grainfather.com/shop/spare-parts/counter-flow-wort-chiller-hosing.html is 8mm ID. I got one to atttach my wortometer, does the job. Probably pricier there than many willing to pay though. 




BKBrews said:


> I couldn't find an exact answer when searching - has anyone replaced the silicone hose on their wort chiller? I'd be interested to know what ID the hose has.
> 
> Also, has anyone used the GF pump to fill a conical fermenter through the bottom dump port? Is it strong enough to do so, or will it back flow once the liquid level in the fermenter gets higher?
> 
> EDIT: Should clarify that I'm asking about the hose diameter as I am currently living away from my GF and cannot measure myself. My research suggests the ID is probably about 0.95cm.


----------



## HaveFun

I'm after a few spare parts for the grainfather - just in case 

does anyone has aliexpress links for:

a false bottom which fits the grainfather

silicon seals and for the perforated filters 

grainfather pump 

Pump Silocone Tubes (2)

Recirculation and counterflow wort chiller silicone hose 

Thanks

Cheers and happy brewing 

Stefan


----------



## RopesNZ

Hi I'm hoping someone may be able to help me. So today I was going to clean my new out of the box Grainfather connect.. I put 15 litres of water in it and was going to run some GF cleaner through the system.. turned the pump on and it made a horrible noise and would not pump...

After taking apart the recirc pipe and all it is pumping without the noise but the flow is just a trickle.. do I have a defective pump ? I really didn't expect this I went and got everything I need for a brew tomorrow.

Any help would be appreciated

Thanks


----------



## RopesNZ

Sorry I figured it out myself. Cheers


----------



## TK1

Hi all,

I'm getting back into brewing after a house move and a few year's hiatus. Lots of posts to catch up on and things to re-learn.

Anyway, I'm on tank water now, so looking to be water-wise about how I brew (although nice pure water to start things off with!). The biggest waste I had was running water through the CF chiller. Even if I collect it, I need to cool it and pump it back into the tanks which isn't ideal. And rather not use dam water in case there's a leak/cross-contamination. So I wondered if the glycol chiller could be hooked up to run coolant through the CF chiller?

May be impossible or a bad idea - I don't have the glycol set up or new fermenter yet, but may head down that path one day. This would give me a reason to invest in one, and save water. Or is the way to go to set up a recirculated cooling system, maybe pumped into an esky/barrel full of ice blocks or something??

Couldn't find anything in this thread on it, so thought I'd ask.

Thanks,
Darren


----------



## MyrtleMountainBrewing

Hi Darren,
I had the same problem with running the CF chiller on tank water. An additional issue I had was that is summer the water would come out of the tap quite hot (> 30 degrees C) so the cooling was not very effective.

My solution was to buy a submersible pump off ebay
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SUBMERS...D-SWIMMING-POOL-UPTO-8M-217L-MIN/254364004753
(I chose the largest pump option 217l/min) and I run this in a barrel of water to which I add blocks of ice to offset the heat from the CFC. I am glad I went with the largest pump option because the CFC does require a decent head of pressure to move water through it at an acceptable flow rate. 
This setup works quite well and at the end of the brew day I have a barrel of warm water to help with the cleanup. Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Max


----------



## hezzer

TK1 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm getting back into brewing after a house move and a few year's hiatus. Lots of posts to catch up on and things to re-learn.
> 
> Anyway, I'm on tank water now, so looking to be water-wise about how I brew (although nice pure water to start things off with!). The biggest waste I had was running water through the CF chiller. Even if I collect it, I need to cool it and pump it back into the tanks which isn't ideal. And rather not use dam water in case there's a leak/cross-contamination. So I wondered if the glycol chiller could be hooked up to run coolant through the CF chiller?
> 
> May be impossible or a bad idea - I don't have the glycol set up or new fermenter yet, but may head down that path one day. This would give me a reason to invest in one, and save water. Or is the way to go to set up a recirculated cooling system, maybe pumped into an esky/barrel full of ice blocks or something??
> 
> Couldn't find anything in this thread on it, so thought I'd ask.
> 
> Thanks,
> Darren



Hello Darren
When I was using tank water for a chiller coil, the out flow went straight back into the house downpipe collector box. Maybe I'm missing something but it was dead simple and I wish I had it now (on town water). I have a GF glycol chiller with two of their conical fermenters and I think it would be tricky to rig up the glycol chiller to work with an immersion coil. The electrics are set up so that the demand to open the chiller flow comes from the controller box on the fermenters. The good news is that the wort can go into the fermenter in the mid 30s and then the chiller will reduce the temp down to pitching fairly quickly (35 to 18 about an hour). This allows the town water to work the immersion chiller all year. FYI I don't have a GF chiller coil, just a home made copper one which goes into the BM.
cheers H


----------



## TK1

Thanks Max and Hezzer, maybe I was over-thinking it. I figured if the glycol unit could be hooked up to the CF chiller it would have been done before. Still considering one to control a fermenter down the track, so good to know how it works.

Appreciate the link Max, a drum with ice and immersion pump may be the way to go. I was concerned if I pumped it back into the water tank at too high a temp then it might promote growth or something (although it gets warm on a hot day). I guess if left to cool I could then use the pump to drain it into the tank as Hezzar did. Alternatively, using a drum of iced water means I could re-use that elsewhere or perhaps run it for a few brews before changing.

Now I just need to build some benches and set everything up again...

Cheers,
Darren


----------



## raturay

I'm looking to update my original Grainfather controller to the current bluetooth model. Do you think I can safely assume that it will fit and work okay on my March 2016 Grainfather.

I've tried the help function on Grainfather's web site to no avail so far.

Cheers
Ray


----------



## Chridech

raturay said:


> I'm looking to update my original Grainfather controller to the current bluetooth model. Do you think I can safely assume that it will fit and work okay on my March 2016 Grainfather.
> 
> I've tried the help function on Grainfather's web site to no avail so far.
> 
> Cheers
> Ray


It will fit. The Bluetooth controller sits on top of the bracket/handle instead of inside it. The Bluetooth controller is shipped with the screws used to hang it from the GF in the wrong position (at least they were for mine). You will need to move the screws into the alternate holes so the new controller sits in the correct position on top the bracket. Mash/boil switch set to boil always.


----------



## raturay

Chridech said:


> It will fit. The Bluetooth controller sits on top of the bracket/handle instead of inside it. The Bluetooth controller is shipped with the screws used to hang it from the GF in the wrong position (at least they were for mine). You will need to move the screws into the alternate holes so the new controller sits in the correct position on top the bracket. Mash/boil switch set to boil always.


Thanks.


----------



## Coxy

Just finished my second brew on a 2nd hand GF. I knocked the end cap off my filter with the paddle when whirlpooling and had some minor clogging issues. Had to remove the ball and spring valve at the top of the recirc column to get it going again (sorry, pump). I'll probably use a hop spider next time (I have one lying around, just haven't been using it) as extra security, and this will also reduce losses to the hoppy trub. I was wondering, though, during final transfer to FV, do others tip the GF a bit so the pump inlet can get more liquid out before it starts sucking out air? This would obviously improve BH efficiency a bit, but it seems a bit hacky to do this with a unit that's supposed to be designed as ready-to-go. I apologise if this has been asked before in this thread, but it's 88 pages long, and I can't seem to work out how to search for text within a single thread. It wasn't mentioned in the page 2-4 discussion about filter/pump clogging from hoppiness (where people mention using a hop spider is good).


----------



## nickbone1986

Coxy said:


> Just finished my second brew on a 2nd hand GF. I knocked the end cap off my filter with the paddle when whirlpooling and had some minor clogging issues. Had to remove the ball and spring valve at the top of the recirc column to get it going again (sorry, pump). I'll probably use a hop spider next time (I have one lying around, just haven't been using it) as extra security, and this will also reduce losses to the hoppy trub. I was wondering, though, during final transfer to FV, do others tip the GF a bit so the pump inlet can get more liquid out before it starts sucking out air? This would obviously improve BH efficiency a bit, but it seems a bit hacky to do this with a unit that's supposed to be designed as ready-to-go. I apologise if this has been asked before in this thread, but it's 88 pages long, and I can't seem to work out how to search for text within a single thread. It wasn't mentioned in the page 2-4 discussion about filter/pump clogging from hoppiness (where people mention using a hop spider is good).



I do tip my unit, but I'm greedy. In regards to the filter being knocked off, try turning it around and wedging the silicone end cap against the temp probe - works a treat and no need for the hop spiders (never used one and I regularly use 200 - 300g of hops per batch).


----------



## raturay

I've been guilty of tipping the GF at times but find that it's to no real advantage. I think it has only been in situations where I wasn't getting enough volume in the fermenter. Sometimes I find my boil-off can be more than planned. But as I said I find very little advantage in the amount of additional wort that you can get.


----------



## WEF

Coxy said:


> Just finished my second brew on a 2nd hand GF. I knocked the end cap off my filter with the paddle when whirlpooling and had some minor clogging issues. Had to remove the ball and spring valve at the top of the recirc column to get it going again (sorry, pump). I'll probably use a hop spider next time (I have one lying around, just haven't been using it) as extra security, and this will also reduce losses to the hoppy trub. I was wondering, though, during final transfer to FV, do others tip the GF a bit so the pump inlet can get more liquid out before it starts sucking out air? This would obviously improve BH efficiency a bit, but it seems a bit hacky to do this with a unit that's supposed to be designed as ready-to-go. I apologise if this has been asked before in this thread, but it's 88 pages long, and I can't seem to work out how to search for text within a single thread. It wasn't mentioned in the page 2-4 discussion about filter/pump clogging from hoppiness (where people mention using a hop spider is good).


Also look into getting the false bottom from kegland, i also secured my filter on with a stainless steel zip tie as it can still dislodged with the false bottom present. I also lost my black rubber end cap for the filter so decided to replace it with a stainless mesh screen also zip tied on. The hop spider does help but only captures about 40% of the hops.


----------



## Chridech

Coxy said:


> Just finished my second brew on a 2nd hand GF. I knocked the end cap off my filter with the paddle when whirlpooling and had some minor clogging issues. Had to remove the ball and spring valve at the top of the recirc column to get it going again (sorry, pump). I'll probably use a hop spider next time (I have one lying around, just haven't been using it) as extra security, and this will also reduce losses to the hoppy trub. I was wondering, though, during final transfer to FV, do others tip the GF a bit so the pump inlet can get more liquid out before it starts sucking out air? This would obviously improve BH efficiency a bit, but it seems a bit hacky to do this with a unit that's supposed to be designed as ready-to-go. I apologise if this has been asked before in this thread, but it's 88 pages long, and I can't seem to work out how to search for text within a single thread. It wasn't mentioned in the page 2-4 discussion about filter/pump clogging from hoppiness (where people mention using a hop spider is good).


Flipping the filter over so that the end cap is wedged against the temperature probe avoids the cap being dislodged for the most part, save an extremely vigorous whirlpool. The bottom screen hack is an option for some but I’ve chosen not to modify my GF too much and it’s been fine. I’m in the camp of using a hop spider (Mangrove Jacks model) and it works. I do sometimes tip the GF to get an extra litre or two of wort if the volume is looking low. But I’ve adjusted most recipes to aim for a final volume of 25L in the fermentor which is probably a better solution.


----------



## TONY VAN DER ZANDEN

Chridech said:


> Flipping the filter over so that the end cap is wedged against the temperature probe avoids the cap being dislodged for the most part, save an extremely vigorous whirlpool. The bottom screen hack is an option for some but I’ve chosen not to modify my GF too much and it’s been fine. I’m in the camp of using a hop spider (Mangrove Jacks model) and it works. I do sometimes tip the GF to get an extra litre or two of wort if the volume is looking low. But I’ve adjusted most recipes to aim for a final volume of 25L in the fermentor which is probably a better solution.


Go to David heaths blog page and look at his modifications to his Grainfather system. should solve most of your problems.


----------



## BKBrews

Just downloaded Beersmith 3 after using Beersmith 2 for years and it's doing my head in.

I have set it up so that the mash water mimics what the grainfather calculator indicates, however the sparge is exactly 3.41L more than grainfather indicates (which directly correlated with the kettle deadspace). 

Any ideas how I can fix this in BS3?


----------



## BKBrews

BKBrews said:


> Just downloaded Beersmith 3 after using Beersmith 2 for years and it's doing my head in.
> 
> I have set it up so that the mash water mimics what the grainfather calculator indicates, however the sparge is exactly 3.41L more than grainfather indicates (which directly correlated with the kettle deadspace).
> 
> Any ideas how I can fix this in BS3?



Figured it out - you have to move the 3.41L mash deadspace loss to the recoverable mash deadspace field. All back to normal!


----------



## RRising

Suppose i should ask this here rather than its own thread.

I am thinking of upgrading to a Grainfather Connect from a Robobrew V3, i have had a bit of trouble with my RB from bent screens to foam boiling over and creating a huge mess and getting hops in the wort.

I am trying to weigh up the pros and cons of upgrading. The main pro i can think off is the app connectivity, it should make setting programs and checking on temperatures easier. Cons is that i already have a similar system.

Any advice on why i should or shouldn't upgrade.


----------



## Coxy

I have Grainfather v1, without the bluetooth connect unit. I doubt I'll upgrade, because I find pressing a few buttons on a unit to change the temp vs a few buttons on my phone to be not much different. It's a pretty big outlay to move from an RB to a GF just to get a phone app controller. You are talking about buying an entire Grainfather, or can you retrofit the GF control unit onto a Robobrew?

Pros:
- You get to use your phone to change the temperature instead of walking 5m over to the unit
- You can program in a multi-rest mash program so that the mash timings are perfect
- Presumably you can look at the mash temp data later if you're into that kind of thing

Cons:
- $$
- Grainfather Community phone app is balls. There may be other 3rd party apps that are better, though.

Personally I'd say it's a waste of money, but if you've got cash to burn and nothing else to upgrade in your brewery (fermenter, kegging sytem, etc), then I guess go for it.

> I have had a bit of trouble with my RB from bent screens to foam boiling over and creating a huge mess and getting hops in the wort.
A GF connect unit isn't going to save you from a boilover that I can see.


----------



## timneva

Have you tried the brewfather app? I've used it with the grainfather as a manual brewing tool, but now use it on our bigger kits. As far as I'm concerned it kills any other brewing app out there. Doesn't sync with grainfather yet as far as i know - but kills any other app in terms of managing brewing end to end and controlling it manually is better IMO anyway, regardless of your brewing kit - inventory, planning, water profiling, brewing, fermenting, scaling up or down, cost etc etc. 
I'm not affiliated in it in any way - just like a good bit of kit that works ;-)


----------



## postmaster

RRising said:


> Suppose i should ask this here rather than its own thread.
> 
> I am thinking of upgrading to a Grainfather Connect from a Robobrew V3, i have had a bit of trouble with my RB from bent screens to foam boiling over and creating a huge mess and getting hops in the wort.
> 
> I am trying to weigh up the pros and cons of upgrading. The main pro i can think off is the app connectivity, it should make setting programs and checking on temperatures easier. Cons is that i already have a similar system.
> 
> Any advice on why i should or shouldn't upgrade.


I make the move when they first come out an never regretted it. I have had absolutely no problems with the bluetooth app and if you import your recipe from BS or BF or do it on the GF recipe tools It will prompt you for every step.


----------



## NorEast Brew

Hey everyone! Thanks for having me. Hope this is the appropriate spot to ask this question.
Looking at cold crashing in a GF conical fermenter. Worried about suck back of sanitiser fluid out of the airlock. Was thinking of sealing the fermenter prior to cold crash to avoid this but then worried about creating a vacuum and crushing the fermenter in. Can't find any specs of what negative pressure it will tolerate without damage. Then had a thought that I could add CO2 (and pressure) prior to sealing the fermenter and while googling found the GF conical fermenter pressure transfer device. Does anyone have any experience with this and does it sound crazy to use it this way? Bonus is can do pressure transfer to keg also. Looks like they're about a hundred bucks so not cheap but might be a cool bit of kit. Thanks in advance!


----------



## butisitart

after a massive shoulder injury layoff, back on the gf, so thought i'd give it a polish up first,, for gf brew #162.
now have a wee problem - 
the cold water hose into the reverse chiller is leaking water into the wort as it goes into the fermenter, so between the flow tap (to the fermenter), and the copper inner piping in the chiller. i am guessing i've broken some sort of seal. i know i pulled out bits of silicone here and there...
so, 2 questions, first, anybody else have the problem?? (tried all sorts of searches but found nothing)
2nd - what is the most likely silicone looking sealant?? loctite 577?? 
and i'm not sure exactly where it's leaking - where the copper tube slides into the brass sleeve is one possibility among a few. 
it leaks about 1L during chiller to fermenter (leaks into wort, into fermenter). doesn't seem to do any harm, apart from watering the beer down a bit. 
cheers all


----------



## jigsawbrewing

NorEast Brew said:


> Hey everyone! Thanks for having me. Hope this is the appropriate spot to ask this question.
> Looking at cold crashing in a GF conical fermenter. Worried about suck back of sanitiser fluid out of the airlock. Was thinking of sealing the fermenter prior to cold crash to avoid this but then worried about creating a vacuum and crushing the fermenter in. Can't find any specs of what negative pressure it will tolerate without damage. Then had a thought that I could add CO2 (and pressure) prior to sealing the fermenter and while googling found the GF conical fermenter pressure transfer device. Does anyone have any experience with this and does it sound crazy to use it this way? Bonus is can do pressure transfer to keg also. Looks like they're about a hundred bucks so not cheap but might be a cool bit of kit. Thanks in advance!


Did you end up getting the GF conical pressure transfer kit?
I had similar thoughts a while back, and ended up making my own (sort of).





Works out a lot cheaper - picked up all the bits for this from Kegland. So what's going on here and why?
- Conical has been sealed with tri-clamp and a small piece of beer line to a carb cap
- Then I have a couple metres of beer line with quick disconnects
- And then I attach to a bottle with a carb cap, and some more beer line that gets submerged in the solution in the bottle ***important - the carb cap on the bottle is fitted very loosely, co2 needs to exit here***

It's basically just a fancy blow off tube, but works nicely for me:
- The couple metres of beer line is full of co2 during fermentation, and is enough to take samples and dump yeast/trub without sucking anything but co2 in
- When transferring to keg I just remove the disconnect closest to the lid and push 1-2 psi from my gas tank

I'm not really able to cold crash with my esky setup - I normally drop to around 14C and that doesn't suck in any solution. Would be interesting to see what happens if crashed down further (I do use sterilised water as the solution in the bottle, just in case there is any suck back)

One other advantage is this is slightly quieter than a standard airlock. I did get complaints about noise from an active fermentation in my house!


----------



## stevonz

Anyone got their hands on any of the new offerings G40: G40 Brewing System
S40: S40 Brewing System

I've been wanting an all-in-one & the G40 might just be it.


----------



## razz

stevonz said:


> Anyone got their hands on any of the new offerings G40: G40 Brewing System
> S40: S40 Brewing System
> 
> I've been wanting an all-in-one & the G40 might just be it.


GashSlug has just released a video stevonz. Linky


----------



## stevonz

razz said:


> GashSlug has just released a video stevonz. Linky


Yup and a vid of a brew day too... I'd be pretty happy with something like that! Roll on xmas


----------



## Sleepy Weasel

stevonz said:


> Anyone got their hands on any of the new offerings G40: G40 Brewing System
> S40: S40 Brewing System
> 
> I've been wanting an all-in-one & the G40 might just be it.


I'm a little leery of Grainfather after all the bother with the bottom mash plate seal in the G30. If tit looks like they've redesigned the grain basket to eliminate that problem in the newer models (the description of the G40 mentions a perforated basket and rolled edge grain plate), so they might be worth a look. I do really like their conical fermenters, and the bluetooth controller is a neat idea, but not enough so to justify the difference in price between the G40 and the S40.
I see that you will need a 15A outlet to run it at full power, so bear that in mind.


----------



## Truman42

I just brought the G40. Upgraded from the G30. Very happy with it so far. Quality build. It has a great new basket design.


----------



## razz

Truman42 said:


> I just brought the G40. Upgraded from the G30. Very happy with it so far. Quality build. It has a great new basket design.


The video link is broken Truman.


----------



## stevonz

razz said:


> The video link is broken Truman.


it downloads locally when I clicked it


----------



## Truman42

razz said:


> The video link is broken Truman.


I just uploaded it here. Wasnt sure how to link it.


----------



## Truman42

razz said:


> The video link is broken Truman.


Try this.








G40 video







youtube.com


----------



## RRising

Just picked up my G40 from my homebrew shop. Seems pretty schmick, was pleasantly surprised it came with a cloth cover and no styrofoam to throw away, all spacers were cardboard.

got a brew planned for Saturday and cannot wait to give this baby a spin.




Edit... a couple of preliminary thoughts, IEC cable is nice, so no having to dick around with a cable when it comes time to clean but it would have been good if it came with a dust cover, the controller box does so this exclusion is a bit weird. Next, its bloody heavy, not too sure where the extra weight is, it must have a hefty pump and power supply and the false bottom/ hop filter and grain plate seems to be well made and not bent.


----------



## Skillz

RRising said:


> Just picked up my G40 from my homebrew shop. Seems pretty schmick, was pleasantly surprised it came with a cloth cover and no styrofoam to throw away, all spacers were cardboard.
> 
> got a brew planned for Saturday and cannot wait to give this baby a spin.
> 
> View attachment 121269
> 
> 
> Edit... a couple of preliminary thoughts, IEC cable is nice, so no having to dick around with a cable when it comes time to clean but it would have been good if it came with a dust cover, the controller box does so this exclusion is a bit weird. Next, its bloody heavy, not too sure where the extra weight is, it must have a hefty pump and power supply and the false bottom/ hop filter and grain plate seems to be well made and not bent.


Congratulations.
I'm this close to buying one so watching with anticipation


----------



## Skillz

Are you planing on running it on 10amp?


----------



## RRising

Skillz said:


> Are you planing on running it on 10amp?



Yes, it's all i have in my shed, i rent so i can't get a proper 15amp circuit installed.


----------



## duncbrewer

I see glass lid so a separate purchase for a stainless steel lid that you can fit a condenser onto. Interested to see your numbers re efficiency throughout your brew.


----------



## Truman42

RRising said:


> ... its bloody heavy, not too sure where the extra weight is, it must have a hefty pump and power supply and the false bottom/ hop filter and grain plate seems to be well made and not bent.


Yeh tell me about it, I was surprised how heavy it is and big compared to the GF30 I have and my Guten 40L. I had to re arrange the shelves Im going to store it on so it sits on the bottom shelf. Im also going to sit in on a dolly so I can wheel it out of the garage on brew day to rinse out. Ive fitted ball valve to mine to make draining easier.


----------



## Truman42

RRising said:


> Yes, it's all i have in my shed, i rent so i can't get a proper 15amp circuit installed.


Im in the same boat. I think 10amp will still be fine looking at the Youtube vids.


----------



## Bourkie

Super keen to hear buyers reviews. So close to pulling the trigger, but also keen to see what the new BrewZilla is like as well


----------



## Skillz

Bourkie said:


> Super keen to hear buyers reviews. So close to pulling the trigger, but also keen to see what the new BrewZilla is like as well


I'm in the same boat but don't think I can wait any longer for the brewzilla even though I'm sure it will be a great unit. I'm guessing late year release but will have more demand than supply and I have been waiting so long already.


----------



## Paddy

I have asked David Heath if he will do one of his comparison videos of the G40/BT40/BZ65 so waiting to see the results, saw one in the LHBS and it looked and felt the goods


----------



## RRising

First brewday done and dusted with the G40 and i'll post my initial thoughts. I made a Coopers XPA clone, i love it because i am not a fan of overly hoppy and bitter IPA's and i have found the XPA a nice happy medium.

Initial clean was easy enough just a soak of PBW at 60°C for a few hours, brew was really easy with the app, i imported one of my brewfather recipes and it tweaked it a little bit, only downside i found with the app is that it doesn't send push notifications through when the phone is in standby so i missed a hop addition by a few minutes so nbd.

I was a bit surprised to see that i got a bit more efficiency than the app predicted, it predicted an OG of 1.040 for my recipe but got 1.045 after the boil, with 33L on initial mash water i got about 25L of wort that's with the 3.5L dead space and around 3-4L predicted boil off, i guess outside temps will affect the boiloff.

After brew clean up was easy, there are only 2 false bottoms, the grain plate for the malt pipe and the hop filter and both are easy to clean, i found the false bottoms on my robobrew were a pain in the arse to clean, the trub was on the hop filter plate and not on the bottom so hopefully it should minimise scorching as is not directly on the floor right next to the elements and i now have it soaking again in PBW.

A couple of minor nitpicks, Using it on 10a mode wasn't too bad, it took about an hour to warm up 33L of water from 18° to 70° and about 50 minutes to get it from 75° to boil i'll post a pic of the temp graph below, this will probably be quicker if/when Grainfather release an insulation jacket for the G40, it would greatly benefit from being plugged into a 15amp socket although the 15a cord is a separate purchase. A quick read of the website and it's limited to 2300w in 10amp mode but 3300w with 15a.

The cord isn't a standard IEC plug like i thought it was so if you lose the cord you'll probably need to buy a new one from GF and as before in my first thoughts there is no dust cover so you'll have to mindful of not getting water in if you wash the exterior.

Other than that, i found it was really good and easy to use and will be counting down the days until my next brew, it was a worthwhile upgrade for me but of course your mileage may vary.

PS... sorry if this is a bit rambly.





Edit... to explain the graph, for some reason it didn't log the first soak even though the unit was on, it started to after i opened the app, the drop is filling up with cold tap water (KL fill-o-meter" and a inline filter  beats going in and out with buckets of water), and the temp drop after boil is because i used the cooling helix from my robobrew, haven't have the time to find hosing for the cold outlet hose for the counterflow chiller that came with the unit.


----------



## postmaster

RRising said:


> First brewday done and dusted with the G40 and i'll post my initial thoughts. I made a Coopers XPA clone, i love it because i am not a fan of overly hoppy and bitter IPA's and i have found the XPA a nice happy medium.
> 
> Initial clean was easy enough just a soak of PBW at 60°C for a few hours, brew was really easy with the app, i imported one of my brewfather recipes and it tweaked it a little bit, only downside i found with the app is that it doesn't send push notifications through when the phone is in standby so i missed a hop addition by a few minutes so nbd.
> 
> I was a bit surprised to see that i got a bit more efficiency than the app predicted, it predicted an OG of 1.040 for my recipe but got 1.045 after the boil, with 33L on initial mash water i got about 25L of wort that's with the 3.5L dead space and around 3-4L predicted boil off, i guess outside temps will affect the boiloff.
> 
> After brew clean up was easy, there are only 2 false bottoms, the grain plate for the malt pipe and the hop filter and both are easy to clean, i found the false bottoms on my robobrew were a pain in the arse to clean, the trub was on the hop filter plate and not on the bottom so hopefully it should minimise scorching as is not directly on the floor right next to the elements and i now have it soaking again in PBW.
> 
> A couple of minor nitpicks, Using it on 10a mode wasn't too bad, it took about an hour to warm up 33L of water from 18° to 70° and about 50 minutes to get it from 75° to boil i'll post a pic of the temp graph below, this will probably be quicker if/when Grainfather release an insulation jacket for the G40, it would greatly benefit from being plugged into a 15amp socket although the 15a cord is a separate purchase. A quick read of the website and it's limited to 2300w in 10amp mode but 3300w with 15a.
> 
> The cord isn't a standard IEC plug like i thought it was so if you lose the cord you'll probably need to buy a new one from GF and as before in my first thoughts there is no dust cover so you'll have to mindful of not getting water in if you wash the exterior.
> 
> Other than that, i found it was really good and easy to use and will be counting down the days until my next brew, it was a worthwhile upgrade for me but of course your mileage may vary.
> 
> PS... sorry if this is a bit rambly.
> 
> View attachment 121283
> 
> 
> Edit... to explain the graph, for some reason it didn't log the first soak even though the unit was on, it started to after i opened the app, the drop is filling up with cold tap water (KL fill-o-meter" and a inline filter  beats going in and out with buckets of water), and the temp drop after boil is because i used the cooling helix from my robobrew, haven't have the time to find hosing for the cold outlet hose for the counterflow chiller that came with the unit.


Did you use the sparge calculator when rapping up from 75 Deg (mash out) to boil ? This does speed up the time to boil process.


----------



## Bourkie

Paddy said:


> I have asked David Heath if he will do one of his comparison videos of the G40/BT40/BZ65 so waiting to see the results, saw one in the LHBS and it looked and felt the goods


I hope he does, as his and Gash's videos are my fav.


----------



## Bourkie

Skillz said:


> I'm in the same boat but don't think I can wait any longer for the brewzilla even though I'm sure it will be a great unit. I'm guessing late year release but will have more demand than supply and I have been waiting so long already.


I totally get it mate, I've been holding off purchasing my first all grain device for so long now. I've got the money, just waiting for the product to be released. It does sound like the Grainfather is very well designed for a release device.


----------



## Truman42

RRising said:


> I was a bit surprised to see that i got a bit more efficiency than the app predicted, it predicted an OG of 1.040 for my recipe but got 1.045 after the boil, with 33L on initial mash water i got about 25L of wort that's with the 3.5L dead space and around 3-4L predicted boil off, i guess outside temps will affect the boiloff.



Good review mate, just wondering what you mean by 3.5l dead space as I thought the mash tun dead space was 6.9 litres? Also I have my boil off set to 2.2 litres an hour but you said you got 3-4 litres boiled off, or was that a 90 min boil?


----------



## RRising

Truman42 said:


> Good review mate, just wondering what you mean by 3.5l dead space as I thought the mash tun dead space was 6.9 litres? Also I have my boil off set to 2.2 litres an hour but you said you got 3-4 litres boiled off, or was that a 90 min boil?




Sorry, i thought i heard somewhere that the G40 dead space was about 3.5L, actually that makes more sense, guess the boil off was about 2L after all, i got 24.5L of wort from 33L of strike water which is still within the predictions of the Grainfather app.

Sorry for the confusion.


----------



## duncbrewer

@RRising So 8.5 litre of loss for grain absorption, boil off and hop / trub loss and still 24.5 litre of wort at 1.045.

You don't say how much grain you used so very difficult to appreciate this devices efficiency. Grain absorption around 0.8 l per kg and hop loss about 13g water per g of hops used on my Guten. 

All depends on how much grain you used, but 5 kg of gladfield ale malt and these figures is suggesting an efficiency of just over 70 % brewhouse. 

Can you update on your malt and hop usage to confirm your figures and really pre boil gravity and volume useful to show " real efficiency " , brewhouse is a bit related to how much trub you throw in your fermenter.


----------



## RRising

@duncbrewer, Sorry, i thought i put the put the grain bill in my "review", looking back i should have waited for the next day to do a write up, was tired and a couple of beers deep so that's the reason its a mangled mess.

My grain bill was -

4kg of Briess Pale Ale malt
300g Wheat malt
250g Rolled Oats
100g dark crystal
100g Acidulated malt
Hops were 25g of Simcoe at 60mins, 25g of Lemondrop at 15mins, i didn't use the biggest grain bill as i was running out of some grains, as for initial strike water, i used the no sparge option the app gives so i didn't use any additional sparge water 

I am still a fairly novice brewer so im not all that know on brew efficiencies, all i know is i got a little bit higher OG than what the Grainfather app predicted but it's probably still within the margin of error.


----------



## duncbrewer

@RRising Thanks for the update.
I'm learning every brew day as well.
What I have learnt is that with new kit you benefit from collecting as much info as possible. Otherwise you are running a bit in the dark. If you got 25 litres in the fermenter then your brewhouse efficiency was 80% ( assuming temp correction of wort for hydrometer etc) if only 24.5 litres 78.5 %. But all in if you know your efficiency at different stages then you can have a recipe or make a recipe that will hit your numbers and no surprises.
33 litres to start and fermenter 25 litres with grain absorption and hop loss looks like 3.5 litre of boil off but could be more or less, assuming you emptied the kettle to leave only the wort in the hops behind. It's useful to really know that figure as then you'll know your liquid boil off rate.
But the first few brews on new kit are fun, stressful, experimental unless someones worked out all the numbers for that gear. Then I'd still check them against my own process. Luckily we aren't running commercial breweries so a few points here or there aren't that critical especially as the mash and boil is only part of a beers journey to the lips.

@MHB posted this in response to one of my questions and I find it a useful chart

Your mash was 6.95 L:G


----------



## rayhaynes62

duncbrewer said:


> @RRising Thanks for the update.
> I'm learning every brew day as well.
> What I have learnt is that with new kit you benefit from collecting as much info as possible. Otherwise you are running a bit in the dark. If you got 25 litres in the fermenter then your brewhouse efficiency was 80% ( assuming temp correction of wort for hydrometer etc) if only 24.5 litres 78.5 %. But all in if you know your efficiency at different stages then you can have a recipe or make a recipe that will hit your numbers and no surprises.
> 33 litres to start and fermenter 25 litres with grain absorption and hop loss looks like 3.5 litre of boil off but could be more or less, assuming you emptied the kettle to leave only the wort in the hops behind. It's useful to really know that figure as then you'll know your liquid boil off rate.
> But the first few brews on new kit are fun, stressful, experimental unless someones worked out all the numbers for that gear. Then I'd still check them against my own process. Luckily we aren't running commercial breweries so a few points here or there aren't that critical especially as the mash and boil is only part of a beers journey to the lips.
> 
> @MHB posted this in response to one of my questions and I find it a useful chart
> 
> Your mash was 6.95 L:G
> 
> View attachment 121286


I reckon another God way to work out efficiency is lots of recipes quote based on a % of efficiency. 
Brew the exact recipe and see how close you are. I brewed one the other day that quoted 78% and I hit the exact OG. So that would mean GF getting 78%.
Yes or no


----------



## duncbrewer

@rayhaynes62 
Yes it would, provided your volume was the same as they quoted. 



rayhaynes62 said:


> I reckon another God way to work out efficiency



Praying to higher deities not so reliable though!!


----------



## caiocezart

Looking to get started and found this kit STARTER BREWERY: Grainfather G30 Complete Brewery + 3 YEAR WARRANTY

Would that be a nice one?


----------



## Grmblz

caiocezart said:


> Looking to get started and found this kit STARTER BREWERY: Grainfather G30 Complete Brewery + 3 YEAR WARRANTY
> 
> Would that be a nice one?


Whether it's nice or not is subjective, what I can say is it's bloody expensive for what you get. Yes you pay for a turn key solution but I reckon $1500 would easily get you the same set up if you can build the serving fridge yourself, and would probably be better quality.


----------



## caiocezart

I was just trying to play safe to get started. Kegerators price seems to all be around the same price 1.2-5k. Any recommendation of a nice DYI conversion kit? Or any guides to point out?

Thanks


----------



## Grmblz

Ok, so you joined yesterday, I will assume you have googled lots, if not, why not?
There's a shit load of how too's on the tube, some of which might be worth looking at.
Having said that there's a couple of things to get sorted, if you want the pub bar font tap thing, your kegerators are the way to go BUT! they are a cheap, noisy, inefficient Chinesium fridges, and usually pour foam on a hot day without serious modification, if you can live with a homemade tap on door type, you will get a superior pour, better "star" rating, and a unit that doesn't die after3 or 4 yrs, Oh and costs half the pennies, I'll leave this for now because I have probably kicked a hornets nest, and it's only fair for the other side to have their say. I'll revisit if nobody wants to help.


----------



## caiocezart

Grmblz said:


> Ok, so you joined yesterday, I will assume you have googled lots, if not, why not?
> There's a shit load of how too's on the tube, some of which might be worth looking at.
> Having said that there's a couple of things to get sorted, if you want the pub bar font tap thing, your kegerators are the way to go BUT! they are a cheap, noisy, inefficient Chinesium fridges, and usually pour foam on a hot day without serious modification, if you can live with a homemade tap on door type, you will get a superior pour, better "star" rating, and a unit that doesn't die after3 or 4 yrs, Oh and costs half the pennies, I'll leave this for now because I have probably kicked a hornets nest, and it's only fair for the other side to have their say. I'll revisit if nobody wants to help.



Thanks for that, yeah I did my research hence finding this forum with a lot of content to help. I’m a bit worried in trying to build one myself, those series x ones looks easy enough


----------



## jgriffin

Anyone else had an issue with the triclover fitting on their Fermenter? 

For some reason, on one of the fermenters, as soon as i start to tighten the clamp, it pushes the spigot off-centre and it naturally does not seal correct. It doesn't seem to happen on the other fermenter. I've had like 10 goes at it, my brother has had a go at it, and it keeps happening. 

Any thoughts?


----------



## RRising

I'm a few brews deep on my G40 and a few issues are starting to rear their head mostly due to the pump and bottom hop filter/ false bottom.

I made an experimental tropical/ fruity type lager but only had about 40g of hops and it clogged the filter enough that i couldn't pump out the wort into my fermenter, i had to lift up the screen to be able to pump into the fermenter and as such got quite a bit of hop debris in the FV so maybe for future brews stick with the hop spider.

Secondly is when you go to use the counterflow chiller, it says to pump boiling wort through to sterilise but i have found that because of the heating elements it can cause voids around the pump inlet on the bottom and cause the pump to run dry for a few seconds before more wort could be sucked through. last issue with the pump is the whirlpool action when its nearly empty and again could cause the pump to suck air and might cause damage later on in its lifespan.


----------



## one1985

Can someone tell me how to use the boil power control on the G40. I would like to use a steam condenser because I have a small apartment, but I can’t get the boil power control working. It’s in the app but doesn’t seem to work.


----------



## duncbrewer

Just checking have you updated the G40 firmware?


----------



## one1985

duncbrewer said:


> Just checking have you updated the G40 firmware?


I have the most recent update. And I have heard from other sources that the boil power control could be included in a future firmware update.


----------



## Ballaratguy

My grainfather controller is stuck on 100deg no matter where I put the temp probe (certainly not 100 ambient temp)
Can this be reset at all?


----------



## dazz1975

I done a silly thing tonight. I poured my wort into the Grainfather Fermenter but forgot to put in the stainless steel pipe that separates the trub from the final product. Will that be an issue and how is best to approach to ensure minimal affect to the final outcome. 

Cheers
Darren.


----------



## Sleepy Weasel

dazz1975 said:


> I done a silly thing tonight. I poured my wort into the Grainfather Fermenter but forgot to put in the stainless steel pipe that separates the trub from the final product. Will that be an issue and how is best to approach to ensure minimal affect to the final outcome.
> 
> Cheers
> Darren.


It seems to me that it wouldn't be all that hard to fix. Are you planning to dry hop? Just sanitise a brewing glove and reach in to install the stem. Even if you're not dry hopping, you can still do this, but preferably while it's still actively fermenting, so the CO2 displaces any O2 that gets into the to of the vessel.


----------



## dazz1975

Sleepy Weasel said:


> It seems to me that it wouldn't be all that hard to fix. Are you planning to dry hop? Just sanitise a brewing glove and reach in to install the stem. Even if you're not dry hopping, you can still do this, but preferably while it's still actively fermenting, so the CO2 displaces any O2 that gets into the to of the vessel.


Thanks Sleepy Weasel. I tried to find brewers gloves or some long glove in my area today but had no luck. I will try tomorrow otherwise I might just have to dump the trub every couple of days and hopefully not have much sediment in the keg when I finally keg it.

Cheers
Darren.


----------



## Sleepy Weasel

dazz1975 said:


> Thanks Sleepy Weasel. I tried to find brewers gloves or some long glove in my area today but had no luck. I will try tomorrow otherwise I might just have to dump the trub every couple of days and hopefully not have much sediment in the keg when I finally keg it.
> 
> Cheers
> Darren.


Sorry Darren. I just assumed you would have gloves, but they're not absolutely essential, I think. Just wash your arm carefully with soap, rinse it thoroughly and then douse it well with brewing sanitiser (StarSan or similar). Shake it off (don't wipe with a towel), and get in there. If fermentation is already complete, you can do it just before you bottle or keg. You'll find it very easy to locate the outlet, because it's at the very bottom of the conical base.


----------



## Malchizedec

Hi Darren, Sleepy is bang on the money, I've made this mistake before, washed my arm and had no issue with the final brew.

That being said, I did head out and buy some gloves from Kegland afterwards.

Good luck


----------

