# Hop Hog Clone



## cdbrown

Had a pint of Feral Hop Hog the other night at the Sail Anchor in Freo. What a fantastic beer. The aroma was like I'd just opened a fresh packet of hops. After doing some research and cobbling together some other recipes I've come up with the following in the hope that it's something like the original. Comments or suggestions most welcome. Not brewed this yet, but will do shortly once I get my hands on the hops and a fresh smack pack.

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 35.00 L 
Boil Size: 45.25 L
Estimated OG: 1.059 SG
Estimated Color: 17.6 EBC
Estimated IBU: 47.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
8.50 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Thomas Fawcett) (5Grain 90.91 % 
0.35 kg Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 3.74 % 
0.25 kg Caramunich I (Weyermann) (100.5 EBC) Grain 2.67 % 
0.25 kg Caramunich III (Weyermann) (139.9 EBC) Grain 2.67 % 
40.00 gm Citra [11.10 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops - 
40.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops - 
22.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (60 min) (First Wort HopHops 21.6 IBU 
20.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (15 min) Hops 8.9 IBU 
20.00 gm Citra [11.10 %] (15 min) Hops 7.3 IBU 
10.00 gm Citra [11.10 %] (10 min) Hops 2.7 IBU 
10.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (10 min) Hops 3.2 IBU 
10.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (5 min) Hops 1.8 IBU 
10.00 gm Citra [11.10 %] (5 min) Hops 1.5 IBU 
20.00 gm Citra [11.10 %] (0 min) Hops - 
20.00 gm Galaxy [13.40 %] (0 min) Hops - 
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [Starter Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 9.35 kg
----------------------------
Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Medium Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
90 min Saccharification Add 28.05 L of water at 74.6 C 68.0 C 
10 min Mash Out Heat to 75.6 C over 10 min 75.6 C


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## Doogiechap

I look forward to hearing about the results bloke :icon_cheers:


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## rude

Same here mate interested to here how it compares, cant help myself with this beer at the local havent had one for a while though

Big aroma hit & flavour, then bitter as a barstard, finishing off with a real mans malt backbone then all together well balanced

At 5.8 percent Im quite happy to peel off on a lesser beer after this one but for me it sets the tone for the night

Im a BB ale man must branch out a bit but love the Aussie malt

Love munich 1 but havent tried 2 or 3 yet

Have been doing APAs with 500g munich 1 with crystal next one 1kg munich1

All the best with it CD let us know how it went


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## Bizier

Can I offer you my unbiased opinion when you are done?

Please...


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## cdbrown

Just using the MO as that's what I have in stock. I do have some munich 1. Would you recommend swapping out the vienna or replacing some of the MO with munich 1?


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## Jimmeh

I know from inside info that the grist is:

97.5% Galaxy malt (Probably different now due to availability)
2.5% Caramunich I
mashed @ 67


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## cdbrown

I ended up modifying the recipe slightly and ended up with the following

Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
9.50 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (Thomas Fawcett) (3.0 SRM) Grain 4 88.0 % 
0.40 kg Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 6 3.7 % 
0.60 kg Caramunich I (Weyermann) (51.0 SRM) Grain 5 5.6 % 
0.30 kg Caramunich III (Weyermann) (71.0 SRM) Grain 7 2.8 % 
48.00 g Citra [11.10 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 19 0.0 IBUs 
48.00 g Galaxy [13.40 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 20 0.0 IBUs 
36.00 g Galaxy [13.40 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 8 26.8 IBUs 
28.00 g Galaxy [13.40 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 11 9.4 IBUs 
28.00 g Citra [11.10 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 10 7.8 IBUs 
14.00 g Citra [11.10 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 12 2.9 IBUs 
14.00 g Galaxy [13.40 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 13 3.4 IBUs 
14.00 g Galaxy [13.40 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 15 1.9 IBUs 
14.00 g Citra [11.10 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 14 1.6 IBUs 
24.00 g Citra [11.10 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 16 0.0 IBUs 
24.00 g Galaxy [13.40 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 17 0.0 IBUs 
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 9 - 
1.0 pkg American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [1000.00 ml] Yeast 18 - 
7.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 90.0 mins) Water Agent 2 - 
2.00 g Epsom Salt (MgSO4) (Mash 90.0 mins) Water Agent 3 - 
42.00 l Guildford - average Water 1 - 

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.057 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.059 SG 
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.012 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.9 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 6.2 % 
Bitterness: 53.8 IBUs Calories: 555.6 kcal/l 
Est Color: 9.8 SRM 
Mash Profile

Mash Name: Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Light Body Total Grain Weight: 10.80 kg 
Sparge Water: 19.66 l Grain Temperature: 12.0 C 
Sparge Temperature: 80.0 C Tun Temperature: 12.0 C 
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.55 

Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time 
Saccharification Add 34.40 l of water at 75.3 C 66.0 C 100 min 
Mash Out Add 0.16 l of water and heat to 80.0 C over 15 min 80.0 C 10 min 

Sparge Step: Drain mash tun, Batch sparge with 1 steps (19.66l) of 80.0 C water 
Mash Notes: Temperature mash for use when mashing in a brew pot over a heat source such as the stove. Use heat to maintain desired temperature during the mash

Measured OG was 1.059, dry hop at about 70% ferment complete (4th day) and hit FG of 1.012 on 6th day. Let it sit for 4 more days before chilling, going to keg it tonight.

Tasted it throughout ferment to see how it changes. Amazing to note the change from a slight bitterness at the beginning to the strong bitterness at the end as the sweet wort is converted to alc. One thing I noted is the hop flavour diminished over time and I'd hoped the dry hop would bring it back, but unfortunately it didn't. Its not to say the hop flavour isn't there, it's just not as pronounced and upfront as I'd like. Definitely lingers in the middle of the mouth after taking a drink.

Any recommendations to improve the upfront hop flavour - more hops at a certain time?


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## [email protected]

cdbrown said:


> Any recommendations to improve the upfront hop flavour - more hops at a certain time?




My 2 cents = Swap the marris otter for something else, BB ale, maybe even try JW Pils.
I have found Wyeast 1272 , can help bring out hop flavour in APAs and the like

cheers


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## mika

Wyeast 1272 in my experience doesn't like high hopping levels and is prone to dropping out early, especially with high levels of crystal, you'll end up with a mess of a beer. Though 1056 is known for muting hop levels as well.
Subbing out the Base malt to some crap like JW Pils will lose all the malt background. Perhaps you've got enough crystal to compensate, but whilst I agree it will make the beer taste more bitter it won't enhance hop flavour.
You should be getting loads of hop flavour with that sort of dry hopping rate, my attempt at a Rogue Red Ale clone had quite a lot of hop flavour and your hopping rates seem to be pretty close to mine linky
Bring a sample along to the meeting on Monday and we can pick it apart then, not much else happening.


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## malt_shovel

cdbrown said:


> Measured OG was 1.059, dry hop at about 70% ferment complete (4th day) and hit FG of 1.012 on 6th day. Let it sit for 4 more days before chilling, going to keg it tonight.
> 
> Tasted it throughout ferment to see how it changes. Amazing to note the change from a slight bitterness at the beginning to the strong bitterness at the end as the sweet wort is converted to alc. One thing I noted is the hop flavour diminished over time and I'd hoped the dry hop would bring it back, but unfortunately it didn't. Its not to say the hop flavour isn't there, it's just not as pronounced and upfront as I'd like. Definitely lingers in the middle of the mouth after taking a drink.
> 
> Any recommendations to improve the upfront hop flavour - more hops at a certain time?



Man I am hoping to have a taste of this next monday!!

I wonder whether the dry hoping before the primary was completely finished has affected the amount of hop flavour and it diminshed due to the fermentation process driving out some of the very volatile components. Have you always dry-hopped in this manner (adding it a couple of days before reaching FG)? Also it looks like they were in there for around 5 - 6 days? Is this how long you normally dry hop?

I have just dry hopped my Alpha Pale Ale clone linky (aiming for 7 days post FG) so it won't really be ready for Monday's meeting, but will see if i can bring some along anyways as it may give a reasonable comparison with similar hop addition times (though mine has a high alpha addition at 20 mins).

Cheers
:beer:


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## cdbrown

I normally dry hop around 70% through ferment as it's what I've heard or read is a good time to do it as there's still some activity in the fermenter to aid in mixing throughout the beer but not alot which drives off all the volatiles. Probably heard it on a brew strong podcast. 

I'll bring some bottles along - they will be under carbed but I'll try my best to get some carb using the carb cap.


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## outbreak

:icon_offtopic: I quite enjoy Feral's Hop Hog, however the pint I had the other day at the queens seemed to have way too much hop flavour for the IBUs, has anyone else had this issue?


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## rude

Never had it on tap outbreak but whenever I open the stubbie the smell then the taste hits me

Went to a bucks do the other night & Jeromy (Ferrel) had Ferrel wit on tap for the boys I told him I love the Hog & he said they use 4 hops & everyone cant guess the last one hop in there.

Also said that there is Rye malt in there dont know as never brewed or tasted Rye malt

If thats that big malty flavour Im brewing with Rye ????

Jerrome isnt the brewer so not sure any comments out there about the Rye ?

Still love munich 1 lots of malt flavour

So anyone brewing this beast tried the epic punk IPA the other day I recon the local one is better but did really enjoy the punk


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## Sully

OT - dropped in to the Platform Bar in Brissy and had one for the first time, $15 a stubby???? :blink: :blink: 

If I didnt feel like I have just been ripped off I probably would have enjoyed it a bit more.

Apart from that, I would be keen to hear how this one turns out

Cheers


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## keifer33

rude said:


> Never had it on tap outbreak but whenever I open the stubbie the smell then the taste hits me
> 
> Went to a bucks do the other night & Jeromy (Ferrel) had Ferrel wit on tap for the boys I told him I love the Hog & he said they use 4 hops & everyone cant guess the last one hop in there.
> 
> Also said that there is Rye malt in there dont know as never brewed or tasted Rye malt
> 
> If thats that big malty flavour Im brewing with Rye ????
> 
> Jerrome isnt the brewer so not sure any comments out there about the Rye ?
> 
> Still love munich 1 lots of malt flavour
> 
> So anyone brewing this beast tried the epic punk IPA the other day I recon the local one is better but did really enjoy the punk



There was a Rye IPA there a few weeks ago so might have been confused.


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## cdbrown

Sully said:


> OT - dropped in to the Platform Bar in Brissy and had one for the first time, $15 a stubby???? :blink: :blink:
> 
> If I didnt feel like I have just been ripped off I probably would have enjoyed it a bit more.
> 
> Apart from that, I would be keen to hear how this one turns out
> 
> Cheers



I am very happy with how it turned out and got some positive comments at the brew club. That being said it doesn't have the upfront fresh flavour I was hoping for which may have been due to not enough late hopping or that the hops had lost some of their mojo due to age and handling. Aroma and bitterness was there.

Plan on brewing something similar to this again, but this time will add cascade and increase the late/dry hop amounts.


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## Doubleplugga

I asked the same question when I was out there about a month ago and got the same answer, 4 types of hops and no one can guess all 4 and yep there is a bit of rye malt as well. couldn't get anymore out of them than that!!!


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## madm3chanic

thought id post my two cents...

iv tried a fair few hog immitations, it being my long standing fav brew...

im currently watching for the hot break on this brew whilst drinking a few of my last hog attempt-

1.5kg briess Amber extract
3 kg Breiss Golden extract
1kg dried spraymalt
250g dried corn syrup

10g Citra, Galaxy, Chinook, 45mins (26IBU's)

10g chinook, 15g galaxy & citra, 15mins

15g galaxy, 20g citra, 2mins

25g citra and galaxy, dryhopping 14 days



thats a bit of an upgrade on the last one (just a bit of extra hops, tweaking the amounts), which was fantastic but was a bit too spicey and not fruity enough. 

in regards to the "fresh hop" character mention, i know what you mean and have been thinking about that myself. i think this is where the fourth hop comesi n. personally i think it it a high farnesene variety to contribute green, fresh woody aroma and taste to the fuity and spicy backbone. iv got myself some Kahatu hops to try in my next batch to see if that gets it a bit closer.


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## cooraf

madm3chanic said:


> thought id post my two cents...
> 
> iv tried a fair few hog immitations, it being my long standing fav brew...
> 
> im currently watching for the hot break on this brew whilst drinking a few of my last hog attempt-
> 
> 1.5kg briess Amber extract
> 3 kg Breiss Golden extract
> 1kg dried spraymalt
> 250g dried corn syrup
> 
> 10g Citra, Galaxy, Chinook, 45mins (26IBU's)
> 
> 10g chinook, 15g galaxy & citra, 15mins
> 
> 15g galaxy, 20g citra, 2mins
> 
> 25g citra and galaxy, dryhopping 14 days
> 
> 
> 
> thats a bit of an upgrade on the last one (just a bit of extra hops, tweaking the amounts), which was fantastic but was a bit too spicey and not fruity enough.
> 
> in regards to the "fresh hop" character mention, i know what you mean and have been thinking about that myself. i think this is where the fourth hop comesi n. personally i think it it a high farnesene variety to contribute green, fresh woody aroma and taste to the fuity and spicy backbone. iv got myself some Kahatu hops to try in my next batch to see if that gets it a bit closer.



What yeast are you using with that??


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## kyleg

hey cdbrown, how did this recipe turn out?


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## kyleg

So i've decided to have a go at my own version of this recipe with the information i've been able to find on various threads. As this is my first time designing a recipe and not following one, id really appreciate some feedback from you pro's. this brew will be for a mates new years eve party so i dont want it to be a flop! (I know that a few of them have had the hop hog before and like it. Anyway here's what i've come up with. 

*Hop Hog Attempt* (American IPA)

Original Gravity (OG): 1.059 (P): 14.5
Final Gravity (FG): 1.015 (P): 3.8
Alcohol (ABV): 5.80 %
Colour (SRM): 5.9 (EBC): 11.6
Bitterness (IBU): 50.3 (Average)

97.5% BB Galaxy Pale Malt
2.5% Caramunich I

60g (1.3 g/L) Chinook (10% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil)
20g (0.4 g/L) Galaxy (13.4% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil)
30g (0.7 g/L) Chinook (10% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
60g (1.3 g/L) Citra (11.1% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
50g (1.1 g/L) Galaxy (13.4% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil)
20g (0.4 g/L) Amarillo (8.6% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil)
30g (0.7 g/L) Citra (11.1% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil)
20g (0.4 g/L) Galaxy (13.4% Alpha) @ 0 Minutes (Boil)


Single step Infusion at 67C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes 
Fermented at 20C with Wyeast 1272 - American Ale II 

Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*



I did read somewhere that this yeast can diminish hop flavour, any other suggestions?
Also will the 60 min boil and 60 min mash be long enough?
I no chill, so my plan is to try the 'guide to late hopping and no chill' thing, by only adding 20 min additions in the main boil, then once no chilled, doing a 10 min boil of about 6L wort (3L per ferment) and adding my 10 min and 0 min additions during that, then chilling in a sink etc.
Not really planning on dry hopping, as im hoping to get the big hop flavour and aroma from this late hop additions. If i do dry hop it will just be what i have left in the freezer.
Also I would like a slightly lower FG, bump up the alc a bit, what can i do to help this? i've just assume 75% attenuation in this recipe, im not quite sure what determines the attenuation rate? (im still a n00b)
All sounding alright?

Thanks for any input!


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## cdbrown

I was very happy with the brew - got 4th in the state comp with 37/50. I think the galaxy and citra worked really well. I made a APA with a similar mix of hops as you and it's come out a little muddled. Next time I'll do a 60min and 45min addition to increase the bitterness aiming for 65IBU and use a different malt such as JW Export Pils to help with the late hop flavour. Keg dried up the other day.


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## Lord Raja Goomba I

Galaxy & Citra FTW!


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## kyleg

cdbrown said:


> I was very happy with the brew - got 4th in the state comp with 37/50. I think the galaxy and citra worked really well. I made a APA with a similar mix of hops as you and it's come out a little muddled. Next time I'll do a 60min and 45min addition to increase the bitterness aiming for 65IBU and use a different malt such as JW Export Pils to help with the late hop flavour. Keg dried up the other day.



Ah nice one. I noticed you added salts, where did you get the salts from, might have to check the water report for Osborne park because I don't think the water is the best.


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## Lecterfan

Kyle: While I've not done this precise recipe, I have done similar beers (with some cal chloride, cal sulfate and a whisper of magnesium sulfate for my water) and wy1272 and I don't think wy1272 in any way 'diminishes' hop flavour. It certainly adds a flavour profile of it's own compared to us05 at 18c, but the character works well in hoppy beers, especially with big American hops like these. At least, that's my humble opinion amongst many others. Cheers.


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## kyleg

Lecterfan said:


> Kyle: While I've not done this precise recipe, I have done similar beers (with some cal chloride, cal sulfate and a whisper of magnesium sulfate for my water) and wy1272 and I don't think wy1272 in any way 'diminishes' hop flavour. It certainly adds a flavour profile of it's own compared to us05 at 18c, but the character works well in hoppy beers, especially with big American hops like these. At least, that's my humble opinion amongst many others. Cheers.



And a humble opinion is what I'm after! I've only used us05 and wy1056 so far. Keen to give 1272 a try. Maybe I'll use a different yeast for each 23L and compare.


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## cdbrown

I ordered my salts from Ross.


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## manticle

Kyle G said:


> And a humble opinion is what I'm after! I've only used us05 and wy1056 so far. Keen to give 1272 a try. Maybe I'll use a different yeast for each 23L and compare.



Not brewed that beer, nor used citra and galaxy but have done hoppy beers with chinook and 1272 and done the same recipe with 05 and 1056. 1272 does not, in my experience, discernibly strip hop flavour any more than the other two, all other things being equal.


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## kyleg

good to hear. looking forward to brewing this and seeing how it turns out. hopefully i'll achieve enough bitterness to balance out the alc and big fruity hop flavour.


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## lukasfab

Hey cdbrown any improvements on this recipe?
How similar to hop hog is it?

Cheers


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## maldridge

Also interested to know. 

Tossing up between doing this recipe or a simpler Wit beer next week.


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## seanicus

Cascade and citra in hop hog? Anyone know? Ping@*feralbrewer* @*FeralBrewing*


*Brendan Varis*

‏@*feralbrewer*

@*Blair_Noel* @*feralbrewing* small amount of those two in the blend that's predominantly centennial


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## technobabble66

Have tried this a few times now, including yday on tap in WA while on holiday. Hopefully visiting Feral on Tuesday for more sampling - woohoo! I'm particularly impressed with that huge, prominent hop flavour that's not heavily overshadowed by bitterness (like i find so many IPAs I try these days). 

Any update on the recipe for FB's Hop Hog??

Grain Bill: I'm guessing its mainly Galaxy (could you sub in Pale Ale or MO?) for the majority (~90-95%), plus some Munich 1 or 2, plus some Rye. 

Hops: lots of Centennial, plus some Citra & Cascade. 

So, any grains/hops missed?
Also, how to get that strong flavour without the bitterness? - just do the majority of hops at flameout & chill, then strain out the hot break & hops?


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## krausenhaus

technobabble66 said:


> So, any grains/hops missed?
> Also, how to get that strong flavour without the bitterness? - just do the majority of hops at flameout & chill, then strain out the hot break & hops?


Galaxy with those hops as well.

You could get 48 IBUs worth from a 10min addition to take care of the flavour, then dry hop.


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## technobabble66

You sure about Galaxy in the hops?

I thought the idea of galaxy evolved from a guy who spoke to someone from Feral who mentioned Galaxy being v important in the recipe, 
Entry 5 of this thread: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/36060-feral-hop-hog/
& it was assumed for a little while that this referred to galaxy hops. However, it later turned out that Feral uses Galaxy Malt grain for 95% of the grain bill. (Entry 6 of this thread). This was my deduction from these 2 threads, rather than any great knowledge, btw.

Also I'm not sure I tasted Galaxy in the flavour, though I could easily be wrong on that front; & I think it was believed there were 4 hops (so maybe galaxy fits in there somewhere...)
Sigh, .... Now I'll have to try some more!

I'm happy w that 10min addition, though TBH I'd be ok w dropping 5-10 IBUs. 

What happens if you drop IBUs heavily (& drop unfermentables to balance) but crank out high hop flavour? Is this the nefarious "fruit salad" beer I hear about?


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## ianj84

Talked to a brewer last week about the hops in hog hog. He said there's a lot of Amarillo in it. 
That's all I got.


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## mxd

the brewer was at anhc last year, and I don't remember what he said, but I think he told us the hops ?


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## technobabble66

That's fantastic, mxd!!
...um... Do you remember what they were?? ;-))

Ianj84 - thanks! Was the brewer from feral, btw? Amarillo sounds more like it for me, TBH. ( plus the 3 C's).


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## ianj84

He was the brewer for steam brewing, brews all the epic and 8 wire beers. I didn't even know they were contract breweries.

He told me there's a lot of Amarillo in it.


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## krausenhaus

technobabble66 said:


> You sure about Galaxy in the hops?


I spoke to one of the brewers and was trying to guess the hops. I guessed Citra and Galaxy and he said yes, then Amarillo and he said no, then he stopped the game. So that adds a bit more confusion.

He wasn't the head brewer though, and he may have been confused.

I'm tapping a 10min IPA on Friday with Citra, Galaxy and Centennial. I have some Hop Hog in the fridge for comparison so I'll see if the Galaxy works.


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## Nick JD

I was at an American Micro once and they can pick the homebrewers in the first sentence. Then their eyes squint up a little bit and it's like you're asking them for their online banking password.

Could fully taste Citra in an IPA and the brewer was like all, NOPE!

Then we wander over to the big cool store area and there in ******* massive stacks are a gazillion boxes of Citra. I look at the guy and do the roll eyes.

Maybe he thought his beer was better than it was, or I was some kind of industrial espionage agent putting on a false accent?

Asking brewers what they put in their beers is like asking a woman if she fakes her orgasms. Fat chance you'll get a straight answer.


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## technobabble66

Ianj84 - same. Well at least for the calibre of Epic & 8 wired 
Interesting read:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/marlborough-express/lifestyle/beer/7397635/Outsourcing-brewing-has-its-pitfalls

I'm curious about the Amarillo - I'm still trying to learn to identify individual hops. Currently I'm getting pretty good at indentifying that it does indeed have some hops in it (of unknown type & quantity) ;-) hence my reservation about galaxy but really I don't know. I thought galaxy was the *only* hops I could identify (passionfruit kinda stands out in a beer!). If I'm wrong on this one I really suck at this tasting thing!!

Edit: slow typing. 
KH: look fwd to the comparison! I'm pretty sure I'd go with the Citra. Interesting he stopped playing after the mention of Amarillo...
NickJD - agree. I researched JS's Hop Thief ale pretty heavily & the brewers claim different combos at different times (while referring to the same batch). A bit of obfuscation, methinks. Mind you, various forums also indulge heavily in Chinese whispers to muddy the waters also (that's why I was being a bit pedantic about info sources).


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## krausenhaus

I'm a bit confused about a contract brewer in NZ knowing the hop schedule for Feral beers.

Ianj84 are you getting confused with an Epic or 8wired beer (Hop Zombie, Hopwired, etc.) or did the guy have something to do with Feral too?


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## ianj84

No im not confused !

he just knew Brendon from feral and told me there's Amarillo in it.


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## Nick JD

Add to this the variation in "Bintage" year on year with some of these hop varieties (I'm talking to you, Amarillo!) and trying to pick a hop is difficult. 

I recently could have sworn a Centenial beer was Amarillo, but I think Amarillo has faded as the hops become more established (maybe the bigger the rhizomes get the different the hops become?).

Add to this a bad drought (no plant produces well if it's stressed) or constant rain leading to fungal issues etc, and year on year a fantastic hop can be a dud.

Funny how we don't consider "vintages" in beer, but maybe VB was awesome in 1987 due to a great fruity PoR harvest and fat, plump barley full of protein. Maybe not, but it's an interesting topic - especially for poor commercial brewers trying to establish as standard brew. I feel sorry for these micros who can't obtain the ingredients for their best sellers.

Which brings me back to the reason I think some micros are so sketchy about their recipes ... they change them all the time and hope no one notices. Yup, that's not Riwaka, _it's Galaxy and Cascade._


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## technobabble66

So is that the 4 then : centennial, citra, cascade, & Amarillo ??
Sounds great to me.


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## mxd

technobabble66 said:


> That's fantastic, mxd!!
> ...um... Do you remember what they were?? ;-))


 no :chug: but there we other non drunks there


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## krausenhaus

technobabble66 said:


> So is that the 4 then : centennial, citra, cascade, & Amarillo ??
> Sounds great to me.


I'm still pretty sold on Galaxy - I've had Hop Hog at the brewery twice in the last week and in stubbies at home and I think it's there, but I'm definitely no expert. Plus I heard it directly from a brewer.

Either way, the above combination will make an awesome beer.

Like I said, I'll have a better idea when I compare my IPA this weekend, plus I'm gonna have a crack at a clone for the next brew.


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## slash22000

Galaxy is an Australian hop, cheap and readily available to an Australian brewery, I wouldn't be surprised to find it in any hoppy Australian beer.


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## technobabble66

krausenhaus said:


> I'm still pretty sold on Galaxy - I've had Hop Hog at the brewery twice in the last week and in stubbies at home and I think it's there, but I'm definitely no expert. Plus I heard it directly from a brewer.
> 
> Either way, the above combination will make an awesome beer.
> 
> Like I said, I'll have a better idea when I compare my IPA this weekend, plus I'm gonna have a crack at a clone for the next brew.


I should b able to try it at the brewery tmrw, so I'll keep a tastebud out to spot the galaxy!

Galaxy or Amarillo I probably shouldn't care anyway. I love the galaxy I dryhopped into a LCPA clone(ish) a few months ago. 

I should really b more focused on how to get that depth of flavour & keep the IBUs below 50...


----------



## technobabble66

NickJD - yeah, I think The vintage thing plus creative recollection makes comparing year-to-year across different beers v difficult. And that many beers don't seem to keep well beyond a couple of years. 

Hops could possibly vary enormously given the multitude of constituents that noone really knows what they do, plus the sensitivity of taste & smell. 
I certainly know of big variances in grain quality & composition from year to year via a friend in grain logistics (stock feed, sadly; not brewing grains).


----------



## Nick JD

Other thing is, let's say you own a micro and have a really successful beer start to become popular and it constitutes 75% of your sales ... but it has, say, Amarillo as the only hop in it.

And you can only get 1.5 tonnes of Amarillo when you need 3.

But PoR is a fraction of the price of Amarillo - and you only use it for bittering - most people won't notice.

Then the year after, you can only get 500kg of Amarillo, so you fortify it with Cascade and Cluster.

And everyone's going, "Their IPA used to be better, I think."

Year after that it's bittered with isohops and flavoured with Galaxy. Tastes nothing like it used to but only the homebrewers notice.


----------



## pressure_tested

so has anyone made one of these recently? I'm brewing an IPA in two weeks and the gang really loves hop hog. Not really looking to clone it, just want to make something where the bitterness is balanced with the american/australian hop flavour & aromas.


----------



## Econwatson

Hey all!

I spoke to a woman at GABS who claimed to be married to the brewer at Feral.

We played a little hops guessing game where I eventually guessed my way to the three hops. She said:
Cascade
Citra
Centennial

Just thought it might be useful to somebody, it didn't seem like she was making it up, because she seemed to be racking her brais to remember!


----------



## Josho

The brew took out 1st place in last years beer awards,
Im sure if you asked nicely they might actually give you a bit of an idea on whats in the brew,

they are pretty good fellas.


----------



## NewtownClown

Econwatson said:


> Hey all!
> 
> I spoke to a woman at GABS who claimed to be married to the brewer at Feral.
> 
> We played a little hops guessing game where I eventually guessed my way to the three hops. She said:
> Cascade
> Citra
> Centennial
> 
> Just thought it might be useful to somebody, it didn't seem like she was making it up, because she seemed to be racking her brais to remember!


If her name was Gabby, then it is Brendan's wife.

I detect slight passionfruit (galaxy?) from the bottle but none at all from the tap. Actually prefer it from the tap.


----------



## slcmorro

Reviving this old thread... does anyone have anything further on the previous mentioned recipes and in particular, their hop additions?


----------



## MashPaddler

Having read the thread amarillo and galaxy hops get a good run. I have smelt passionfruit in the aroma but it is subtle, and reckon amarillo is a good bet too. I have an amarillo IPA which I dry hopped with whole hop galaxy on Sunday - Kegging on Thursday and I will do a side by side next week with the feral to see if it is a similar hop profile. I wasn't going for a clone though (mine's sitting at 6.5% and has a good dose of special B so it won't be identical. 

It smells fricken delicious either way.


----------



## Byran

Had one on sat night on tap and I did get the stonefruity (amarillo) vibe but it could be a different hop all together........


----------



## krausenhaus

I asked the guys at the Feral stall at GABS and they told me that the fourth hop (on top of Centennial, Cascade & Citra) changed from time to time, and is sometimes Simcoe. I'm thinking it's Simcoe when Amarillo isn't available maybe?


----------



## pressure_tested

I just made an IPA with Centennial, Citra & Simcoe and hops wise it didn't taste completely different to a poorly stored hop hog. (I'm not a very experienced brewer so pretty happy with it)


----------



## mfeighan

yeah i chatted with a dude from feral last night and he said
centennial, citra, cascade, simcoe and amarillo when its available, gonna give it a shot this weekend.


----------



## carniebrew

pressure_tested said:


> I just made an IPA with Centennial, Citra & Simcoe and hops wise it didn't taste completely different to a poorly stored hop hog. (I'm not a very experienced brewer so pretty happy with it)


I agree, I bottled an IPA with hop hog numbers a couple of weeks back (5.8% abv, 50 IBU), using Centennial, Citra and Amarillo late, and it's pretty similar too. I bittered with Warrior, but that doesn't seem to make much difference to the end flavour in this style IMO.


----------



## maldridge

I'm looking at brewing a hop hog style IPA in a couple of weeks. With all the differing opinions on what's correct/the best in this thread I'm finding it hard to put together a suitable hop schedule. I understand I'm shooting for 50 IBU but I'm unsure of my timings and amounts.

I'll be using:

~97.5% JW Pilsner
~2.5% Munich I

The hops I have available are:

Galaxy
Citra
Centennial
Cascade

Does anybody have any recommendations (from experience), as to a suitable hop schedule to use here? Using as many or little of the hops as I might need?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## mxd

maldridge said:


> I'm looking at brewing a hop hog style IPA in a couple of weeks. With all the differing opinions on what's correct/the best in this thread I'm finding it hard to put together a suitable hop schedule. I understand I'm shooting for 50 IBU but I'm unsure of my timings and amounts.
> 
> I'll be using:
> 
> ~97.5% JW Pilsner
> ~2.5% Munich I
> 
> The hops I have available are:
> 
> Galaxy
> Citra
> Centennial
> Cascade
> 
> Does anybody have any recommendations (from experience), as to a suitable hop schedule to use here? Using as many or little of the hops as I might need?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


I'll would go the bottom 3 and with an IBU of 50, and using jw pils, I would think a little more munich or malt from somewhere, what mash temp are you considering.

if chilling

5 IBU at 60 one high AA hop

15 at 30 citra and centeniul equal (7.5 ibu each)

15 at 10 all 3 equal (5 ibu each)

10 at 5 all 3 equal

same amount at flameout/whirlpool as above (should give you 5 ibu)

20g, of each dry


----------



## maldridge

Thanks for the advice. I was thinking of mashing around 67. I could bump up the Munich to maybe 5%? It would seem the colour I'm after will be spot on at this level.

I might stick with the three C's as you mentioned and leave the galaxy for another day.


----------



## pressure_tested

I don't know from a lot of experience but agree that you would probably want some more malty flavours in there


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## maldridge

Only reason I decided on my grain bill was because it was mentioned early on in this thread that hop hog uses ~97.5% bb galaxy malt (I subbed in JW pilsner) and 2.5% munich I.

Any suggestions to the malts?


----------



## krausenhaus

If it were me, I would consider using 50-60% Maris Otter as the base malt to put some balls behind the hops, with the rest pale/pils and 2-3% crystal for colour if desired.

Other opinions will likely differ though.


----------



## maldridge

Thanks for the tip mate, I will try out a grain bill with some MO as well.

MXD, I tried punching in your suggested hop additions into beersmith, and it seems like an awful lot of hops! Especially with mostly late additions ... Is it possible to up the earlier additions slightly to save on having to buy more hops?? Will I still get the aroma and flavour ? I'll post my updated recipe tomorrow when I'm back at my comp.


----------



## BeerNess

Thanks for the tip mate, I will try out a grain bill with some MO as well.

MXD, I tried punching in your suggested hop additions into beersmith, and it seems like an awful lot of hops! Especially with mostly late additions ... Is it possible to up the earlier additions slightly to save on having to buy more hops?? Will I still get the aroma and flavour ? I'll post my updated recipe tomorrow when I'm back at my comp.
if you put the hops in earlier you loose a lot of the aromatics and get more bittering. IPA is a very hop heavy style, only way to get the flavors for the style is by using metric f&@k tons of hops.


----------



## pressure_tested

Yeah the more early hops you put in the more late hops should go in too. It's a balancing act. Ibu should suit the amount of alcohol (specific gravity) and flavour aroma hops should balance it all so that it doesn't taste super bitter.


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## maldridge

So here's what I'm going with.

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Hop Hog Clone
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 58.04 l
Post Boil Volume: 53.04 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 50.00 l 
Bottling Volume: 50.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.059 SG
Estimated Color: 12.7 EBC
Estimated IBU: 50.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 69.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 70.4 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
2.50 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 - 
6.64 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) ( Grain 2 49.0 % 
6.50 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 3 48.0 % 
0.42 kg Caramunich I (Weyermann) (100.5 EBC) Grain 4 3.1 % 
15.69 g Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 9.2 IBUs 
20.92 g Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 6 7.9 IBUs 
17.47 g Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 7 7.9 IBUs 
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 8 - 
53.35 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 5.2 IBUs 
29.29 g Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 5.2 IBUs 
24.58 g Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 11 5.2 IBUs 
57.53 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 12 3.1 IBUs 
32.43 g Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 13 3.2 IBUs 
26.67 g Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 14 3.1 IBUs 
55.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 15 0.0 IBUs 
31.00 g Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 16 0.0 IBUs 
25.00 g Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 17 0.0 IBUs 
1.3 pkg American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) [124 Yeast 18 - 
20.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 19 0.0 IBUs 
20.00 g Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 20 0.0 IBUs 
20.00 g Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 21 0.0 IBUs 

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 13.55 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Tempera Step Time 
Mash In Add 37.34 l of water at 72.8 C 66.7 C 60 min 
Mash Out Add 19.79 l of water at 94.6 C 75.6 C 10 min 

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (Drain mash tun, , 16.48l) of 75.6 C water
Notes:
------


----------



## ian4379

i've been trying to figure out a no chill version. my 5th AG, 1st no chill, cheapo stove-top method.

i'm still trying to get my head around the no-chill additions and how to balance out the hops in general, so i thought it best to ask for some advice this time around.

here's what i have from brewmate, no chill ticked:

23 ltr batch

5000gm jw pilsner
250gm caramunich
250gm carapils
us-05 yeast

citra 15 gms 40 mins - 24.35 ibu
amarillo 15 gms 0mins - 5.71 ibu
centennial 15gms 0mins - 6.05 ibu
cascade 15gms 0 mins - 4.57 ibu
citra 15gms 0 mins - 9.14 ibu

total ibu: 49.8, close enough to the 50 i was aiming for. 

my question is since i've treated my 15 minute chilled additions as 0 minutes no chilled, do i then need to cube hop 20 minutes later to simulate a chilled flameout addition? and how much hops should i dry hop?


----------



## fletcher

you could if you like but i reckon just dry hop from there. perhaps about 3g/L for a big heavy IPA like that. 

citra is amazing dry hopped at those big levels.


----------



## ian4379

would you go all citra dry hopped pr a mix of those 4?


----------



## fletcher

ian4379 said:


> would you go all citra dry hopped pr a mix of those 4?


i'd either have it on its own because i LOVE the citra aroma, or just pairing it with one of the others. i love that signature citra aroma up front, then having my tastes explore the differences of hops i've used mid-boil. personally i'd just use citra but it's entirely up to you mate


----------



## jkmeldrum

Just drinking a hop hog from the bottle now. Just bought some with the new label, so know it must be pretty fresh. Aroma gives me a big slap in the face of mango. Even my 10 yr old daughter said, "mango" when I asked her what my beer smelt like. So I would have to say that there is definitely Citra in there because that tends to give a definite mango flavour from what I have experienced! Not sure of other hops that give mango though. Love this beer, so maldridge, would love to know how yours is going?


----------



## sponge

I get a big whack of mango from Stella hops but don't believe they are used in HH IPA..

Might not have helped too much in regards to the actual recipe, but good to know if wanting to add some hints of mango to a brew.


----------



## Phoney

There's lots of recipes in this thread,but little to no tasting reports. Has anyone nailed this one yet?


----------



## ian4379

i only brewed mine yesterday, will report back when i bottle


----------



## maldridge

Alright sorry to keep everyone waiting. Thought we'd lost interest! I've polished off the keg with a few mates and I've got a few bottles stored away which I'll be cracking soon (don't want to wait too long, don't wanna miss out on the amazing aroma).

So my attempt was by far the best beer I've made (I'm a big IPA fan). It's certainly not spot on as a hop hog 'clone', but it's still an amazing IPA. The only thing I'd change next time is probably go harder on the dry hopping.

I split the batch, fermented half with 1272, and cubed the other half. I just started fermenting the other half with Wyeast West Coast IPA 1217 yeast, which is a limited run I think, so looking forward to checking out this batch in a couple of weeks and comparing with the other that I have bottled.

Enjoy.

Here's my recipe.

Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 58.04 l
Post Boil Volume: 53.04 l
Batch Size (fermenter): 50.00 l 
Bottling Volume: 50.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.059 SG
Estimated Color: 12.7 EBC
Estimated IBU: 50.0 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 69.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 70.4 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU 
2.50 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 - 
6.64 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) ( Grain 2 49.0 % 
6.50 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5.9 EBC) Grain 3 48.0 % 
0.42 kg Caramunich I (Weyermann) (100.5 EBC) Grain 4 3.1 % 
15.69 g Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 9.2 IBUs 
20.92 g Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 6 7.9 IBUs 
17.47 g Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 7 7.9 IBUs 
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 8 - 
53.35 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 9 5.2 IBUs 
29.29 g Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 5.2 IBUs 
24.58 g Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 11 5.2 IBUs 
57.53 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 12 3.1 IBUs 
32.43 g Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 13 3.2 IBUs 
26.67 g Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 14 3.1 IBUs 
55.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 15 0.0 IBUs 
31.00 g Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 16 0.0 IBUs 
25.00 g Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 17 0.0 IBUs 
1.3 pkg American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272) [124 Yeast 18 - 
20.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 19 0.0 IBUs 
20.00 g Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 20 0.0 IBUs 
20.00 g Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days Hop 21 0.0 IBUs 

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 13.55 kg
----------------------------
Name Description Step Tempera Step Time 
Mash In Add 37.34 l of water at 72.8 C 66.7 C 60 min 
Mash Out Add 19.79 l of water at 94.6 C 75.6 C 10 min 

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (Drain mash tun, , 16.48l) of 75.6 C water


----------



## Middo

Hi Guys,

I'm going to have a go at making a clone of this and being only my 4th brew and 1st time I've used Brew Smith I'm trying to find some substitute malt as the Joe White Pilsner isn't a stock item carried by CraftBrewer (site sponsor).

I was looking to do something similar to the recipe above on a 23ltr batch BIAB with chiller. I'm going to try the 4 hops Citra, Cascade, Centennial & Amarillo.... mostly late additions with 100g in the urn and 100g dry hopped.

If anyone has any suggestions on the malt to use I'd like to know... I'm going to have a go anyway myself and will post up the recipe when I'm done.


----------



## slcmorro

Any Pils should still get you a pretty close result mate. JW Pils etc.


----------



## Middo

I had a go and this is the result I came up with using beersmith2, I have most of these hops already except for Amarillo though I'll get some of this with the grain order.

If anyone would recommend changing any of this please share. I'm going to order the grain tomorrow, doing a double batch this weekend with snpa being the other. I realise the magnum probably shouldn't be there but I figured the late additions from the core 4 should really bring out the aromas and tastes and well, magnum is pretty clean bittering so shouldn't really change things much.

*Hogging Hops IPA*
American IPA (14 B)
Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 23.50 l
Boil Size: 27.00 l
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 23.50 l
Final Bottling Vol: 23.50 l
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage
Date: 06 Jan 2014
Brewer: Adam M
Asst Brewer: 
Equipment: BIAB 40LT URN
Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 70.0 %
Taste Rating: 30.0
Taste Notes: 
Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
6.00 kg Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 1 88.2 %
0.50 kg Caramunich I (Weyermann) (100.5 EBC) Grain 2 7.4 %
0.30 kg Carafoam (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 3 4.4 %
20.00 g Magnum [12.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 24.6 IBUs
10.00 g Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 5 4.7 IBUs
10.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 6 2.8 IBUs
10.00 g Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 5.1 IBUs
10.00 g Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 8 6.1 IBUs
15.00 g Amarillo [9.20 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 9 2.8 IBUs
15.00 g Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 10 3.1 IBUs
10.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 11 1.1 IBUs
10.00 g Citra [12.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 12 2.5 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) [50.28 ml] Yeast 13 -
25.00 g Amarillo [9.20 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
25.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 15 0.0 IBUs
25.00 g Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 16 0.0 IBUs
25.00 g Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 17 0.0 IBUs
Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color
Est Original Gravity: 1.064 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.017 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.1 %
Bitterness: 52.7 IBUs
Est Color: 17.0 EBC
Measured Original Gravity: 1.046 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %
Calories: 427.1 kcal/l
Mash Profile
Mash Name: BIAB, Full Body
Sparge Water: 0.00 l
Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE
Total Grain Weight: 6.80 kg
Grain Temperature: 22.2 C
Tun Temperature: 22.2 C
Mash PH: 5.20
Mash Steps
Name Description Step Temperature Step Time
Saccharification Add 31.16 l of water at 73.7 C 68.9 C 60 min
Mash Out Heat to 75.6 C over 7 min 75.6 C 10 min

Sparge: If steeping, remove grains, and prepare to boil wort
Mash Notes: Brew in a bag method where the full boil volume is mashed within the boil vessel and then the grains are withdrawn at the end of the mash. No active sparging is required. This is a full body beer profile.
Carbonation and Storage
Carbonation Type: Keg
Pressure/Weight: 67.02 KPA
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 4.0 C
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage
Volumes of CO2: 2.3
Carbonation Used: Keg with 67.02 KPA
Age for: 30.00 days
Storage Temperature: 18.3 C
Notes
Created with BeerSmith


----------



## Middo

Oh and ignore the mash steps, these have been corrected to 60 Min sachirifacation target temp 65c after infusion.


----------



## carniebrew

You're a bit over on both ABV and IBU for a Hop Hog clone, but it still looks balanced. Looking again at Feral's description though:





> We add a heavy dose of American Hops during both during the boil and late in the fermenting stage to give Hop Hog a strong pine needle and citrus aroma


There's plenty of citrus, but where's the "pine needle" coming from in your hop schedule?


----------



## Middo

That's probably the Simcoe that I'm missing from this recipe.... I could always throw some of that in at the dry hopping stage. Just need to get a pound or two of that in my store.,,, A few posts back it was said Amarillo and Simcoe where the only hops that were swapped, with Simcoe used when Amarillo wasn't available.

I also wanted to brew something a little stronger than the typical Hop Hog... figure that might slow me down and stop be polishing it off as quickly as I do the real thing. I smashed 4 cartons of this over xmas break, can't get enough of it.


----------



## Middo

I brewed this up yesterday, I added Chinook at the 15 min and 5 min boil to try and get some of that pine flavour/aroma (cut Magnum in half to 10g @60min boil), same amounts as the other 4.. my OG rating came up 1.070 with 73.3 efficiency.

Was a bit of a drama filled day... pretty much everything that could did go wrong, water filter dramas, fermenter had mould in it from sitting in the fridge which was turned off, then when I went to boil up the wort the crown urn kept tripping the power. It's new and only on its 4th brew... Ended up taking the kettle up to another circuit point which the main house is connected to and turned it on and the light kept flickering on the urn but didn't trip and after a while it went solid. When it did trip down in the brewery I heard an electrical short sound but no smell... oh well, back in the brewery again today doing a different batch, an SNPA byo clone recipe base with chinook and citra 15 grams each at 5 min boil and will add the same at dry hopping with 30 grams of cascade.

Happy Days!

Kegs are empty after xmas / new years so more brewing again next weekend!


----------



## menoetes

Hey Guys,

I love this beer to and I know a guy spends a lot of time knocking out clone recipes for his LHBS. He's got a nose for it and usually pretty damn close to the real thing (I've done his S&W and LCPA and both were spot on for me). He made an extract recipe, so I can't help out on the grain bill but his hops sound solid.

He told me that he uses Cascade, Galaxy and Citra (in that order) in the boil and dry hops with Simcoe. Having said that, I haven't tried this recipe yet and can't say for sure how it turns out but I trust this guys taste-buds.

It'll probably be my next brew.


----------



## carniebrew

menoetes said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I love this beer to and I know a guy spends a lot of time knocking out clone recipes for his LHBS. He's got a nose for it and usually pretty damn close to the real thing (I've done his S&W and LCPA and both were spot on for me). He made an extract recipe, so I can't help out on the grain bill but his hops sound solid.
> 
> He told me that he uses Cascade, Galaxy and Citra (in that order) in the boil and dry hops with Simcoe. Having said that, I haven't tried this recipe yet and can't say for sure how it turns out but I trust this guys taste-buds.
> 
> It'll probably be my next brew.


Would love to see a full recipe at some stage, just a list of hops makes it impossible to re-create, particulary around how much (and for how long) dry hopping with Simcoe would be critical....


----------



## slcmorro

This is what I did... (and am drinking right now)

4kg JW Pils
1kg JW Pale
1kg Wheat 

60min Mash at 67c

30gm NS @ 60
15gm Amarillo @ 30
15gm Cascade @ 30
15gm NS @ 30
10gm NS @ 5
10gm Amarillo @ 5
10gm Cascade @ 0

Made to 20L, fermented at 19c with Bry97.

Dry hop in the keg with 10gm of NS, Amarillo and Cascade.

It's certainly got a very pale colour about it, around 9 EBC and it came out around 5.9% which is a bit much, but I'm happy with it.
Could have dry hopped it more aggressively, as it's been kegged for 2 weeks and still it doesn't carry much over to the nose.

On tasting, it's quite similar in a way, but at the same time it's definitely not the same as a Hop Hog. The NS is prominent on the forefront, and if I had my time again I'd bitter potentially with just Magnum for example, rather than using an aromatic/flavouring hop for the bittering component.

It's got a sweetness to it, which isn't quite balanced out enough with the bitterness in my opinion, and I'd probably go a little higher next time around. Brewmate says it's at 79.4 IBU though, and this is my first attempt at a highly bitter beer so I'm not quite sure where I've gone with this one. 

Overall, it's very very drinkable, and I can't see it lasting too long but it's just not quite there. Might try the same grist, and use a bit of Citra and Centennial in place of the NS next time.

P.S - Using the wheat didn't help with any head retention at all. I know IPA's don't usually lace well and carry a big head, but this one is almost non existant after a minute or so.


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## brewtas

Did you use a hop bag in the boil? That can reduce the utilisation rate. 

IPAs generally shouldn't have any problems with head retention. The extra hop matter actually helps head formation and retention. Might be your glass, might be a problem somewhere else.


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## JoeyJoeJoe

Funny you should say that about the head retention. I was doing some FG tests on some different beers a while back that involved letting them go flat over night. I dont know how but the hop hog had a thin bit of head and still laced after 12 hours on the bench really noticable when I put the hydrometer in! The other three beers I did where flat as flat in comparison.


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## slcmorro

No hop bags. BIAB though, not that'd make a diff. More wheat maybe, 1.5kgs?


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## JoeyJoeJoe

Did you use malted or unmalted wheat?


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## slcmorro

Malted.


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## JoeyJoeJoe

Yeah I have been using the malted wheat aswell I also started doing a rest at 72C for 10 minutes at someones suggestion (maybe manitcle?) and it has deffinitly been a step in the right direction and I also add 250 grams of carapils/carahell they are suposed to help.


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## WWDWD

[SIZE=12pt]I wanna have a go at making a Hop Hog clone....[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt][EDIT: Moved to Kits & Extracts... had too many tabs open researching this bad boy)[/SIZE]


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## ian4379

editing


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## ian4379

i ended up going with this

23 ltr batch

5000gm jw pilsner
250gm caramunich
250gm carapils
us-05 yeast

cascade 16 gms 60 mins
citra 9 gms 60mins 
amarillo 5gms 15mins 
cascade 5gms 15mins 
centennial 5 gms 15mins
citra 5gms 15mins
amarillo 5gms 10mins 
cascade 5gms 10mins 
centennial 5 gms 10mins
citra 5gms 10mins
amarillo 5gms 0mins 
cascade 5gms 0mins 
centennial 5 gms 0mins
citra 5gms 0mins
dry hop 5 days 20gms each cascade, centennial, citra

total ibu: 50.4

its been in the bottle 9 days, i tasted it side by side with a hop hog. mine had a lot more aroma, all in all its very similar, mine is more fruity, it's only my 5th AG but i'd guess there is either a hop different or i've staggered my hops different and one of them is more dominant, i'm guessing the amarillo? i need to do some more smashes to get to know my hops better.

very happy though, best beer so far, happy to have a "go to" beer.

edit: the hop hog is a little more orange in colour than mine


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## lswhi3

Can I get some feedback on this recipe? Which one of my options do you think would have the best outcome? Can you guys also advise me how to convert the percentages of malt in kilograms so that I can make a 23L batch at 5.8% / 1.059?

Malt #1:
BB Galaxy 97.5%
Caramunich I 2.5%

Malt #2:
BB Pale 75%
Munich I 17%
Caramunich 3.5%
Crystal Dark 3.5%

Malt #3:
BB Malt 5.1kg
Munich Malt 0.6kg
Caramunich I 0.2kg

Hops:
Hallerteu 60mins for 12 IBUs
Yeast nutrient 15mins
Polyclar 1tsp 15mins

Schedule #1:
40g Centennial 5mins
35g Amarillo 5mins
35g Citra 5mins
25g Simcoe 5mins

17g Amarillo Dry
17g Citra Dry 
15g Centennial
13g Simcoe Dry

Schedule #2:
40g Centennial 5mins
8.2 IBUs Cascade 5mins
35g Citra 5mins
7 IBUs Galaxy 5mins

17g Amarillo Dry
17g Cascade Dry 
15g Centennial
13g Galaxy Dry

Schedule #3:
Centennial 40g 5mins
Cascade 5mins IBUs?
Amarillo 5 mins IBUs?

Same schedule dry hopped with less then boil weight

Didn't bother working out IBUs with 3rd schedule just yet. 

There seems to be a hell of a lot of conflicting recipe information regarding the hop schedule. This is partly because feral mix it up depending on seasonal availability and hop harvest success. However, I'm pretty damn sure that one of these 3 combinations are what feral go with, or maybe its all 3 of these combinations depending on variables. 

Regarding the Malt, #1 is what Feral use I'm almost 100% sure, problem is the availability of Galaxy malt is pretty limited in Melbourne from what I can suss out. 

Also guys, if I haven't got myself an immersion wort chiller just yet, what do you think of throwing the flavour hops in at flameout instead in order to make sure the steeping that goes on as I cool the wort doesn't ruin the hops by making them overly bitter? Will that effect IBUs noticeably?

Cheers guys, 
Luke


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## idzy

I just kegged a batch of Hop Hog inspired IPA that used half a kilo of hops. Will let you know how it goes.


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## danestead

Jedi Master Brewer Luke said:


> Can I get some feedback on this recipe? Which one of my options do you think would have the best outcome? Can you guys also advise me how to convert the percentages of malt in kilograms so that I can make a 23L batch at 5.8% / 1.059?
> 
> Malt #1:
> BB Galaxy 97.5%
> Caramunich I 2.5%
> 
> Malt #2:
> BB Pale 75%
> Munich I 17%
> Caramunich 3.5%
> Crystal Dark 3.5%
> 
> Malt #3:
> BB Malt 5.1kg
> Munich Malt 0.6kg
> Caramunich I 0.2kg
> 
> Hops:
> Hallerteu 60mins for 12 IBUs
> Yeast nutrient 15mins
> Polyclar 1tsp 15mins
> 
> Schedule #1:
> 40g Centennial 5mins
> 35g Amarillo 5mins
> 35g Citra 5mins
> 25g Simcoe 5mins
> 
> 17g Amarillo Dry
> 17g Citra Dry
> 15g Centennial
> 13g Simcoe Dry
> 
> Schedule #2:
> 40g Centennial 5mins
> 8.2 IBUs Cascade 5mins
> 35g Citra 5mins
> 7 IBUs Galaxy 5mins
> 
> 17g Amarillo Dry
> 17g Cascade Dry
> 15g Centennial
> 13g Galaxy Dry
> 
> Schedule #3:
> Centennial 40g 5mins
> Cascade 5mins IBUs?
> Amarillo 5 mins IBUs?
> 
> Same schedule dry hopped with less then boil weight
> 
> Didn't bother working out IBUs with 3rd schedule just yet.
> 
> There seems to be a hell of a lot of conflicting recipe information regarding the hop schedule. This is partly because feral mix it up depending on seasonal availability and hop harvest success. However, I'm pretty damn sure that one of these 3 combinations are what feral go with, or maybe its all 3 of these combinations depending on variables.
> 
> Regarding the Malt, #1 is what Feral use I'm almost 100% sure, problem is the availability of Galaxy malt is pretty limited in Melbourne from what I can suss out.
> 
> Also guys, if I haven't got myself an immersion wort chiller just yet, what do you think of throwing the flavour hops in at flameout instead in order to make sure the steeping that goes on as I cool the wort doesn't ruin the hops by making them overly bitter? Will that effect IBUs noticeably?
> 
> Cheers guys,
> Luke


Malt 3 and hops 1 but reduce the hops at each time to 2g/l total ie 0.5g/l Amarillo, 0.5g/l, centennial etc


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