# Melbourne Brewers British Ales Competition (vic)



## manticle (25/4/12)

Hi,

Melbourne Brewers will be holding their annual British Ales competition at Oscar's Alehouse in Belgrave (VIC) on Sunday 27th May.

There are only two categories in this competition: Category 1 (Mild, Northern and Southern English Brown, Irish Red and Scottish 80/)

AND

Category 2 (Ordinary Bitter, Best bitter and Extra Special Best Bitter).

So far we have prizes for each place getter and they are more than reasonable prizes so good incentive to get your entries in.

Cost is $7 per entry, usual restriction of 2 entries per category, 1 entry per style.

Entries can be registered and paid for at www.compmaster.com.au and can be dropped off at Keg King, Grain and Grape, The Brewer's Den and Greensborough Home Brewing by COB, 19th May or at the venue before 1.30 pm on the day of the competition.

Min. 500mL per entry, 750 preferred.

This is a BJCP registered and sanctioned competition.

Judging will be according to the AABC styleguidelines.

Posters coming soon.


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## GrumpyPaul (25/4/12)

I Have never entered a comp before soI don't know how strict the categories are.

I have a Skittish 80 that was put on bourbon soaked oak chips in the secondary. Would this still strictly meet style guidelines with the oak/bourbon flavour?

I wouldn't mind getting some feedback but don't want to put it in if it isn't within the category criteria


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## mxd (25/4/12)

BoroniaNewBrewer said:


> I Have never entered a comp before soI don't know how strict the categories are.
> 
> I have a Skittish 80 that was put on bourbon soaked oak chips in the secondary. Would this still strictly meet style guidelines with the oak/bourbon flavour?
> 
> I wouldn't mind getting some feedback but don't want to put it in if it isn't within the category criteria



no that's not too style. if our coming tonight bring it along and get one of the BJCP guys to "judge"it for you.


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## GrumpyPaul (25/4/12)

mxd said:


> no that's not too style. if our coming tonight bring it along and get one of the BJCP guys to "judge"it for you.



Thanks - unfortunately the wednesday night meeting clashes with other commitments for me so I haven't been able to get to a meeting for a long time.


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## mxd (25/4/12)

BoroniaNewBrewer said:


> Thanks - unfortunately the wednesday night meeting clashes with other commitments for me so I haven't been able to get to a meeting for a long time.



if you still have it available in September you can put it in vic brew specialty category.


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## Wolfy (25/4/12)

BoroniaNewBrewer said:


> I Have never entered a comp before soI don't know how strict the categories are.


The general answer to that question is: strict bordering on pedantic. 
The categories and style guidelines _are _the judging criteria, every now and then judges will get a really 'good' beer but if it does not conform to the guidelines they're usually compelled to mark it down.


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## brettprevans (25/4/12)

Comps are about ability to brew to style. If its out of style, regardless of how good it is, it will get slammed. Speaking as a bjcp


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## manticle (25/4/12)

citymorgue2 said:


> Comps are about ability to brew to style. If its out of style, regardless of how good it is, it will get slammed. Speaking as a bjcp




the following is my perspective NOT a statement on how this comp or other comps are run and as such is slightly off topic (although relevant):

out of style characters shouldn't necessarily get slammed and there should be some judge's discretion (as well as input from the comp director) in cases where out of style elements exist.
Obviously if a beer has nothing in common with any of the suggested characteristics (eg a Belgian tasting beer entered as an APA, a UK tasting Pale entered as an AIPA) then it cannot realistically or fairly be judged a winner according to the way comps are run.

If you have a good, well made and to style base beer and additions/characters that would put it in specialty category should one exist, then judges should be able to exercise some discretion. Out of style or inappropriate additions should be marked down accordingly but not slammed and the addition of whiskey and oak in a beer style that often suggests a mild peated character is appropriate, if it were used with a judicious hand and was well integrated into an otherwise well crafted beer should have a chance of doing well.

I think the above statement B is why some people view the BJCP with suspicion and see comps as a waste of time.

The BJCP (and the AABC and similar bodies) are not a concrete set of authoritarian and dogmatic rules - they are guidelines. A judge's knowledge, experience and discretion should be at least as firmly applied as guidelines which often use vague descriptors such as may have, might have, is optional, may exhibit etc. There are even classic examples of styles recommended by the BJCP which fall outside their own guidelines and my understanding is that the BJCP, despite some of their stupidly specific style questions in their exam, accept that the body of knowledge and research is ever changing/evolving and that guides are guides, not rules. A good judge should be able to be guided, not ruled by.

A bit OT and Boronia - despite the above, I can't assure you that that is what will happen. If you have a few bottles and a spare $7 put one in and see which kind of judge you get. Otherwise reserve and cellar one for the VICBREW spec category. Read through the appropriate guidelines and decide for yourself how much it misses the mark, if at all. I'd say if it tastes distinctly like Bourbon and massive oak, that it will get marked down but if it's a good base beer, a good judge shouldn't slam it. i'm only looking after sponsorship and some promotion though so no promises from me.


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## GrumpyPaul (25/4/12)

No worries guys, thanks for the responses.

Its a shame, cause this is my first all grain too - not to worry.

One day I might brew something that fits a style. In the meantime my inner mad scientist keeps wanting to experiment and add things to my brews.

I brew - I like it - I'm happy.

Judging and feedback will come one day... I just need to stop brewing raspberry wheats, creamery maibocks, coffee darks, jaffa beers and this one.


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## manticle (25/4/12)

No you don't.

Brew beer you think is good. If you have some you think will fit a comp's guidelines then whack it in. In the mean time keep brewing for the same reasons you started.

Don't expect anything, if you do very badly it's probably a bad/infected etc beer, if you do very very well then it's probably a very, very good beer (or there was only two people in the category) and if you come somewhere in the middle, it's probably pretty reasonable.

Judge's comments vary as widely as the beer - some are spot on, informed, useful and really help your brewing.

Some are useless, contradictory and ill informed.

Comps are subjective by nature and organised and run by non-profit making amateurs. Judging and giving effective useful feedback is not an easy thing - drink 20-30 AIPAs or Belgian strong ales in a row and try and effectively evaluate each and you'll see what I mean.

However they are a fun part of the HB community and some great things come out of them and if you get a place in any one of them, you can feel rightfully proud. If you're beer comes last, use some critical analysis to examine your brewing processes but don't get bogged down or suicidal because someone didn't think your beer was great.


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## brettprevans (25/4/12)

Mants, tge voice of reason..

Obviously things like clarity etc wont get hit, but if it doesnt meet style guide then it will get marked down. If its close to style then itwill score ok, but will loose marks if it has flavours that arent part of the style. 

Im no hanging judge and by no means like brewing to style unless its for comps, but if u want to enter a comp u got to play by the rules. 

Anyway british ales comp is a good comp to enter. 
Not sure ill have anything to enter this year  ill just have to judge/steward if im available.

Edit: boronia, brew out there beers man, thats why clubs r good. Most of the stuff I bre doesnt fit bjcp, so I take it to club meetings. Or I take a chane and enter it in comps and kind of expect it to get hammered a little, lije my rye golden strong. Mind u it still picked up a 3rd and 6th


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## cam89brewer (25/4/12)

BoroniaNewBrewer said:


> No worries guys, thanks for the responses.
> 
> Its a shame, cause this is my first all grain too - not to worry.
> 
> ...



Generally if you want to have any chance of a good result you need to find the beer you wish to enter in the vicbrew style guidelines and then adjust your recipe to what they perceive as being an accurate to style beer. Otherwise you won't be getting feedback on the actual quality of your brew.


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## GrumpyPaul (25/4/12)

If any of the Melbourne brewers drive down boronia road you are going post my front door. I can't get to the meeting tonight but if anyone wants to take my beer along and get it critiqued it would be great.


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## manticle (26/4/12)

Don't know if anyone was able to help you out BB?

I got a lift out there with several others so I'm unsure of the direction we took.

I just need to clarify one thing.

If you are intending to drop beer off on the day at the venue, it must still have been registered and paid for through the compmaster site by the cut off date (ie 19th may). You cannot register entries on the day, only drop them off.
I don't know if that was clear from my first post.


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## manticle (4/5/12)

Just going to give this a little bump if that's not rude or inappropriate.

Best novice gets 25 kg grain, 1 kg of hops and some dried English yeast.

1st prize winners get a $100 voucher to a melbourne based AG shop (Grain/Grape or Greensborough depending on the category) and some equipment from keg king (dial thermometer or grain mill, again category dependent).

2nd and third prizes aren't too far behind - details found here:

http://www.melbournebrewers.org/index.php?...&Itemid=129

Comp is open to all but the prizes are generally VIC friendly.


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## Acasta (4/5/12)

Sounds good, I'm might enter something I've had in bottles a little while now. Even just for feedback would be great.


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## Wolfy (4/5/12)

manticle said:


> 2nd and third prizes aren't too far behind - details found here:
> 
> http://www.melbournebrewers.org/index.php?...&Itemid=129


1st, 2nd and 3rd prizes look pretty good to me.


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## Toper (4/5/12)

Wolfy said:


> 1st, 2nd and 3rd prizes look pretty good to me.


 Tis a good comp and a great day. And Wolfy, if a certain steward behaves themselves there might be some samples of a small English micro for them to try


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## lukec (4/5/12)

Hey manticle,
I have 1x 473mm grolsh stubble left from a irish red ale I made, what are the odds of being ale to squeeze it into the comp, or is it really that strict.


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## manticle (4/5/12)

lukec said:


> Hey manticle,
> I have 1x 473mm grolsh stubble left from a irish red ale I made, what are the odds of being ale to squeeze it into the comp, or is it really that strict.



Best PM andyD who is the comp director (I think - otherwise he can put you onto who is).

While I'd like to say yes, I think it might be pushing it but a message won't cost you anything.


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## Wolfy (4/5/12)

toper01 said:


> Tis a good comp and a great day. And Wolfy, if a certain steward behaves themselves there might be some samples of a small English micro for them to try


I believe *manticle *will be one of the stewards, I'm just not sure about him behaving himself. 

@*lukec*, while it's not ideal, the stewards should be able to work with just that bottle, but as *manticle *said, check with Andy before entering.
Two things for you to keep in mind however; if it its bottle conditioned some more of the yeast might be stirred up (compared to pouring a longneck where you can leave a fair amount behind) and if the judges ask for re-fills there may not be that much to go around.


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## lukec (4/5/12)

manticle said:


> Best PM andyD who is the comp director (I think - otherwise he can put you onto who is).
> 
> While I'd like to say yes, I think it might be pushing it but a message won't cost you anything.



Thanks mate, I'll get it done. No harm in asking.


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## Toper (4/5/12)

Wolfy said:


> I believe *manticle *will be one of the stewards, I'm just not sure about him behaving himself  ,Manticle,behave himself? I remember Beerfest...the riot squad,...watercannons..the club did well to keep it quiet , :lol:


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## felten (4/5/12)

Damnit missed this thread, and I don't think I can ferment and bottle carb a beer in 2 weeks


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## manticle (4/5/12)

toper01 said:


> Manticle,behave himself? I remember Beerfest...the riot squad,...watercannons..the club did well to keep it quiet , :lol:




Who was Captain Underpants?


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## remi (5/5/12)

Quick question,

Is it ok to enter a beer even if you can't make it there on the day?

Remi


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## manticle (5/5/12)

Absolutely.

All you need to do is register the beer with compmaster.com.au, pay for it (which you can do via paypal through compmaster), print the label that will be generated and attach it to the bottle.

The beer then gets dropped off by you at one of the allocated drop off points by the specified date.


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## jayahhdee (7/5/12)

Couple of questions cause I haven't entered a comp before.

I guess it is safe to assume that if I wanted to enter a beer that I only have kegged, filling a bottle on the day of the comp and delivering it before the deadline is the best bet?

And what constitutes a novice? I see it has a separate prize.

Thanks.


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## manticle (7/5/12)

jayahhdee said:


> Couple of questions cause I haven't entered a comp before.
> 
> I guess it is safe to assume that if I wanted to enter a beer that I only have kegged, filling a bottle on the day of the comp and delivering it before the deadline is the best bet?
> 
> ...



I'll let someone else answer the kegging question.

Novice is someone who has never placed in a Vicbrew or BJCP sanctioned comp before.


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## Wolfy (7/5/12)

jayahhdee said:


> I guess it is safe to assume that if I wanted to enter a beer that I only have kegged, filling a bottle on the day of the comp and delivering it before the deadline is the best bet?


Ideally you'd use a counter pressure filler, so that the correct carbonation is maintained into the bottle.
But since many British Ales should have low carbonation (if your beer was one of those) you might not have any problem simply filling it from the tap as you suggested.


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## manticle (7/5/12)

manticle said:


> I'll let someone else answer the kegging question.
> 
> Novice is someone who has never placed in a Vicbrew or BJCP sanctioned comp before.



Correction - I think just Vicbrew so if you were living in the USA and consistently took out beer of show awards, then moved here, you'd still be eligible, as far as I can tell.

Comp organisers will work out the winner from archived Vicbrew results.


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## brettprevans (7/5/12)

jayahhdee said:


> Couple of questions cause I haven't entered a comp before.
> 
> I guess it is safe to assume that if I wanted to enter a beer that I only have kegged, filling a bottle on the day of the comp and delivering it before the deadline is the best bet?
> 
> ...


yeah she'll be fine,. it would be a prob if you didnt use a cpbf and needed a highly carbed wheat or something, but british ales your laughing.


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## jayahhdee (7/5/12)

Thanks for the advice Wolfy amd CM2, and thanks for the explanation Manticle, now to enter my first comp.

I figure its common practice for entrants to hang around the venue and sip a few ales while the judging is going on? If so I'll see some of you there.


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## Jace89 (7/5/12)

Wow I dont know how I missed this post....spewing I would of loved to of entered.
I guess I could put something together quickly.


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## Wolfy (7/5/12)

jayahhdee said:


> I figure its common practice for entrants to hang around the venue and sip a few ales while the judging is going on? If so I'll see some of you there.


Common practice, no.
But you are most welcome to and there will be a number of judges, stewards and other interested folk who'll be doing the same.


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## manticle (12/5/12)

Last week to get your entries registered (and dropped off unless you are taking them along on the day).


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## Wolfy (13/5/12)

manticle said:


> Last week to get your entries registered (and dropped off unless you are taking them along on the day).


Phew! Been busy @ GABS and with other stuff, so I thought I'd the deadline, one more week gives me a chance to pull the finger out and submit an entry or two.


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## Andyd (13/5/12)

lukec said:


> Hey manticle,
> I have 1x 473mm grolsh stubble left from a irish red ale I made, what are the odds of being ale to squeeze it into the comp, or is it really that strict.



Hey Luke,

Throw it in - we should be able to make it work. Generally we ask for a 750 so that if the judges are having trouble they can go back for a second sample... just put a note on the bottle "SINGLE BOTTLE" so we don't go looking for a second one.

Cheers!

Andy


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## Andyd (13/5/12)

manticle said:


> I'll let someone else answer the kegging question.
> 
> Novice is someone who has never placed in a Vicbrew or BJCP sanctioned comp before.



Quick correction - Best Novice is awarded to the brewer with the highest number of points who has not placed in a Vicbrew recognised event. These are listed on the Vicbrew website (www.vicbrew.org.au).

Cheers!

Andy


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## Andyd (13/5/12)

jayahhdee said:


> Couple of questions cause I haven't entered a comp before.
> 
> I guess it is safe to assume that if I wanted to enter a beer that I only have kegged, filling a bottle on the day of the comp and delivering it before the deadline is the best bet?
> 
> ...



Ooops - missed this one.

The British Ales comp does allow entries to come in on the day, so if you're running late and need that little extra time to finish the beer out, this is your best bet.

Just keep in mind that not all competitions allow for entries to be dropped off on the day. Also bear in mind that your entry has to have been registered online at www.compmaster.com.au to be eligible.

Regards,

Andy


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## manticle (13/5/12)

Andyd said:


> Quick correction - Best Novice is awarded to the brewer with the highest number of points who has not placed in a Vicbrew recognised event. These are listed on the Vicbrew website (www.vicbrew.org.au).
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Andy



Yeah I already corrected myself. I know what's going on.

A bit..

Sometimes.

Well, sort of.



> Correction - I think just Vicbrew so if you were living in the USA and consistently took out beer of show awards, then moved here, you'd still be eligible, as far as I can tell.
> 
> Comp organisers will work out the winner from archived Vicbrew results.


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## Wolfy (13/5/12)

Andyd said:


> The British Ales comp does allow entries to come in on the day, so if you're running late and need that little extra time to finish the beer out, this is your best bet.
> 
> Just keep in mind that not all competitions allow for entries to be dropped off on the day. Also bear in mind that your entry has to have been registered online at www.compmaster.com.au to be eligible.


Also keep in mind that if you are bringing your beer on the day that it's your responsibility to ensure it's at the right temperature for serving, if it's too cold or too warm, there is not much the stewards can do in the short time between when they get your beer and when it's presented to the judges.


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## Andyd (14/5/12)

manticle said:


> Yeah I already corrected myself. I know what's going on.
> 
> A bit..
> 
> ...



Sorry Mant's, missed that in my haste...


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## hoppinmad (14/5/12)

Quick question. Are the judges provided with the notes you include in the compmaster entry form or are the beers given to the judges blind without any information?


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## Toper (14/5/12)

Due to an overstay on my UK hols there is now a vacancy for 1 judge in the dark ales catagory,the right people have just been notified by email.At $3AUD for 500 ml bottles and pub pints,I"ve decided to stay another few days, :icon_drunk:


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## Andyd (15/5/12)

HoppinMad said:


> Quick question. Are the judges provided with the notes you include in the compmaster entry form or are the beers given to the judges blind without any information?



Depends on what the competition wants. Some comps have it come out on the stewarding sheets, which is what I think we'll do for British Ales...

Andy


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## davo4772 (15/5/12)

Is there an expectation to provide notes? If so what detail would be appropriate? 

Is there any advantage in providing notes?


Cheers


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## mmmyummybeer (15/5/12)

Just wondering if there are any drop of points that are prepared to keep comp beers cold until the competition. I was also unfortunate to only have my beer in the keg and thought I would try my luck at transferring some into a bottle and enter it. However my beer is now be sitting back up to room temp for a week before the comp. I just after honest feedback but am imagining the carbonation levels and possible flavour profile may change under those conditions? I obviously need to try and make sure I bottle condition beers in future. I would also love to try and get down to drop off the beer on the day, however that's generally not an option available to me.


Any way just wondering for future reference if anyone knows of a drop of point that can refrigerate keg poured beers? 

Thanks


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## Wolfy (15/5/12)

david72 said:


> Is there an expectation to provide notes? If so what detail would be appropriate?
> 
> Is there any advantage in providing notes?


Depending on the beer style and the competition, IMHO they can be either essential or irrelevant.

Some competitions have a 'Specialty' beer category, where providing notes about the beer on offer is essential, without it the judges cannot assess the beer successfully.
However, at other times and for most other styles if your beer is brewed to style there is not much use in providing notes - all the judges need to know (and are often told) is the specific style of the beer is when it is presented. This way there is no potential bias in the judging process and all beers can be judged against the style guidelines against how the judges perceive that beer.


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## Wolfy (18/5/12)

Just a bump because entries close tomorrow.



Andyd said:


> Best Novice is awarded to the brewer with the highest number of points who has not placed in a Vicbrew recognised event. These are listed on the Vicbrew website (www.vicbrew.org.au).


Technically that means that one could win best novice multiple times (highest number of points but not get a place in multiple comps).


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## Andyd (18/5/12)

mmmyummybeer said:


> Just wondering if there are any drop of points that are prepared to keep comp beers cold until the competition. I was also unfortunate to only have my beer in the keg and thought I would try my luck at transferring some into a bottle and enter it. However my beer is now be sitting back up to room temp for a week before the comp. I just after honest feedback but am imagining the carbonation levels and possible flavour profile may change under those conditions? I obviously need to try and make sure I bottle condition beers in future. I would also love to try and get down to drop off the beer on the day, however that's generally not an option available to me.
> 
> 
> Any way just wondering for future reference if anyone knows of a drop of point that can refrigerate keg poured beers?
> ...



I think Grain and Grape keep it cold. Send me a PM if you are having troubles on this front...

Andy


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## Wolfman (19/5/12)

Too late to enter a beer. Do you need any help on the day?


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## Wolfy (19/5/12)

Andyd said:


> I think Grain and Grape keep it cold. Send me a PM if you are having troubles on this front...


For future reference the entry(s) at KegKing were also stored in the fridge.


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## mmmyummybeer (19/5/12)

Thanks for the tips it is very much appreciated. Wish I had have traveled the bit extra and dropped of at keg king but am glad to hear that it is possible to get comp beer in fridges. Cheers


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## Andyd (20/5/12)

Wolfman said:


> Too late to enter a beer. Do you need any help on the day?



I think we're pretty much under control. Registering the entries we've received to date this morning, and it seems like we've got all posts filled, but there's always room for folks to come on down to the Alehouse and enjoy the day !

Andy


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## darrenp (21/5/12)

Guys don't want to be the bearer of bad news but G&G do not hold entries in the fridge. I've seen them stacked up behinind the counter in the past but figured I'd ask when I dropped off an entry on Friday. They don't have the room in their fridge they reckon which is fair enough I supose.


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## Andyd (21/5/12)

Darrenp said:


> Guys don't want to be the bearer of bad news but G&G do not hold entries in the fridge. I've seen them stacked up behinind the counter in the past but figured I'd ask when I dropped off an entry on Friday. They don't have the room in their fridge they reckon which is fair enough I supose.



Thanks Darren for the correction. Probably worth us noting in future whether drop-offs do cold storage. 

Cheers, and good luck everyone for the weekend!

Andy


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## manticle (25/5/12)

manticle said:


> Just going to give this a little bump if that's not rude or inappropriate.
> 
> Best novice gets 25 kg grain, 1 kg of hops and some dried English yeast.



Sorry only 500g hops, I believe.


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## sean_0 (27/5/12)

Hey all,

Can anyone tell me what's the earliest time I can drop off entries? 

Thanks, Sean


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## manticle (27/5/12)

sean_0 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Can anyone tell me what's the earliest time I can drop off entries?
> 
> Thanks, Sean



just before 12pm


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## sean_0 (27/5/12)

Thanks!


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## Wolfy (27/5/12)

sean_0 said:


> Can anyone tell me what's the earliest time I can drop off entries?





manticle said:


> just before 12pm


I don't think the venue opens until lunchtime (1-2pm or something), but it *manticle *is sitting outside at 12pm you can give it to him to mind.


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## manticle (27/5/12)

Andy D said he would be aiming to get there at 11.30 and that Oscar's opens at 12 so you can blame him if you have to sit in the cold.


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## brendo (27/5/12)

Venue will be open for 1pm. Members will be floating around by 12:30 or so.


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## Wolfy (27/5/12)

I'm sure someone will post the official results when they get home, but here are a few photos from the judging of the MB British Ales Comp:


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## Siborg (27/5/12)

Love the hat, Andy!


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## Andyd (27/5/12)

Siborg said:


> Love the hat, Andy!





Hey folks,

Results are now up on CompMaster (Link here for those without an account). 

Scoresheets are also up and available from CompMaster for both entrants and judges.

Congratulations to all the place getters. Shoot me a PM and we'll organise a way to get your prizes out to you this week. 

Thanks to everyone who entered, helped organise, judge, steward or just showed up on the day! 

Cheers!

Andy


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## sean_0 (28/5/12)

Damn, shows what happens when you rush things, managed to enter my northern brown as an ESB! Shame, would like to have seen how it stood up in that category.


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## brendo (28/5/12)

sean_0 said:


> Damn, shows what happens when you rush things, managed to enter my northern brown as an ESB! Shame, would like to have seen how it stood up in that category.



I judged that beer and I reckon it would have done quite well - it was well brewed and without obvious faults, but it was so far out of style that we had to mark it way down. Better luck next time.


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## sean_0 (28/5/12)

Cheers mate, appreciate the comments.


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## geoffd (28/5/12)

Andyd said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> Results are now up on CompMaster (Link here for those without an account).
> 
> ...



Cheers guys, Richard will be happy with his placing in Bitters category - some people are easily pleased 
Well done Manticle on securing some great prizes, especially for 2nd & 3rd, I think you'll see a rise in entries next year off the back of it.

Interesting comments, my ESB had issues, all the judges put it down to ageing, I believe it was Ph; too alkaline (failed to compensate for high sulphate levels). I struggled with troubleshooting this beer & I knew how it was made, Mark Hibbird had given me some great pointers, just thought I'd give a few more judges a crack at analysing it.

Was surprised with the Scottish 80/s feedback, I think the guys should revisit the guidelines, the only thing I would have pinned it for is perhaps not quite a dry enough body (by 2-4 points)
I thought I was pushing the limit on malt complexity with some dark crystal added (for colour), the guidelines clearly state a simple grist (which was historical for economic reasons, much the same as the low hop usage) I was surprised the judges wanted to see more malt complexity, that is why I suggest revisiting the guidelines. 
The judges are welcome to PM me if they want the sheets back to look against the guidelines.

Richard/Andrew/Andy who ever is posting out the trophy, you are welcome to save on postage & bring to the Stout Comp, also catch Andy by the short & curlies, he still hasnt gotten around to giving me the B/Fest 2011 prize (1 year sub to Beer&Brewer)...too busy on the piste I reckon...you cant brew & ski & at the same time...& no it's not called brewski.

Once again thanks to all the organisers volunteers & sponsors, jolly good show, sorry I couldnt make it over, see you all at the Stout Comp.


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## brendo (28/5/12)

Father Jack said:


> Interesting comments, my ESB had issues, all the judges put it down to ageing, I believe it was Ph; too alkaline (failed to compensate for high sulphate levels). I struggled with troubleshooting this beer & I knew how it was made, Mark Hibbird had given me some great pointers, just thought I'd give a few more judges a crack at analysing it.



Interesting insight FJ - it was a hard issue to pick.

See you at Stout Extravaganza!!


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## geoffd (28/5/12)

brendo said:


> Interesting insight FJ - it was a hard issue to pick.
> 
> See you at Stout Extravaganza!!




Yeah, it tasted quite jaded even when it was young, so I understand the oxidation perception, perhaps the high Ph has also affected the beer stability. Anyway i've made an ESB twice & had the same problems, I originally thought it was the Marris Otter malt, then I thought it was the high sulphate, Mark H pointed that wrong Ph can lead to poor precipitation so it all makes sense, but I didnt bother to take a PH reading, also the blandness/dullness could be attributed to Ph, acidity (such as carbonic acid) adds to the sharpness of a beer. (i'm sure I could word better what I'm trying to convey, it's a tricky problem to describe)


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## Andyd (28/5/12)

Father Jack said:


> Cheers guys, Richard will be happy with his placing in Bitters category - some people are easily pleased
> Well done Manticle on securing some great prizes, especially for 2nd & 3rd, I think you'll see a rise in entries next year off the back of it.
> 
> Interesting comments, my ESB had issues, all the judges put it down to ageing, I believe it was Ph; too alkaline (failed to compensate for high sulphate levels). I struggled with troubleshooting this beer & I knew how it was made, Mark Hibbird had given me some great pointers, just thought I'd give a few more judges a crack at analysing it.
> ...



I've just had a look back at the scoresheet I wrote for this one (only aged comments I made by the look of it) - this was a bugger to judge, because the key components were all there, without any serious faults - it was just like someone had turned down the volume knob on everything. There was a very slight papery character that I called out as "slight notes that are indicating a lack of freshness and/or oxidation (I should have done what I ask other judges to do and just write down what you're experiencing...  ).

Maybe we (You, Rich and I) should get together sometime soon and throw a few sticks at round things...

Andy


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## brendo (28/5/12)

Father Jack said:


> Yeah, it tasted quite jaded even when it was young, so I understand the oxidation perception, perhaps the high Ph has also affected the beer stability. Anyway i've made an ESB twice & had the same problems, I originally thought it was the Marris Otter malt, then I thought it was the high sulphate, Mark H pointed that wrong Ph can lead to poor precipitation so it all makes sense, but I didnt bother to take a PH reading, also the blandness/dullness could be attributed to Ph, acidity (such as carbonic acid) adds to the sharpness of a beer. (i'm sure I could word better what I'm trying to convey, it's a tricky problem to describe)



Yeah I get what you are trying to say mate and it makes perfect sense really. Interesting one to be aware of - both from a judging and brewing perspective.


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## geoffd (28/5/12)

Andyd said:


> Maybe we (You, Rich and I) should get together sometime soon and throw a few sticks at round things...
> 
> Andy




That could be construed as something other than darts, consider rewording & its a date...pun intended


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## Andyd (28/5/12)

Father Jack said:


> That could be construed as something other than darts, consider rewording & its a date...pun intended



Errr.... so didn't think that through... ok... trow some darts at a board... (missing h intended  )


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## hoppinmad (28/5/12)

Any word on who took out best novice?


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## brendo (28/5/12)

HoppinMad said:


> Any word on who took out best novice?



Pretty sure it was Kellee Emsley from Corio Brewers. AndyD can/will confirm.


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## hoppinmad (28/5/12)

Well done Kel! Another one of our many star brewers!


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## Andyd (28/5/12)

HoppinMad said:


> Well done Kel! Another one of our many star brewers!



Yes indeed, I can confirm that Kellee has joined the ranks of those no longer eligible to be considered a Novice  CampMaster isn't able to manage that prize since we don't have info from other comps in there (yet  )

Oh, and BTW, although there was no specific prize, the best brewer for the competition was Derek Hales from Melbourne Brewers, followed by Geoff Daly (Westgate) and then Kellee (Corio Bay Brewers). 

Congratulations to all...

Andy


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## geoffd (28/5/12)

Andyd said:


> Yes indeed, I can confirm that Kellee has joined the ranks of those no longer eligible to be considered a Novice  CampMaster isn't able to manage that prize since we don't have info from other comps in there (yet  )
> 
> Oh, and BTW, although there was no specific prize, the best brewer for the competition was Derek Hales from Melbourne Brewers, followed by Geoff Daly (Westgate) and then Kellee (Corio Bay Brewers).
> 
> ...



Well done to Kellee, Brewster extrordinaire, lots of gals stirring the pot now.

Andy, I'm going to challenge that result for champ brewer...seeing as there's no prize, how did you calculate that? are you counting non placing entries?...just curious...or maybe your liver is still processing yesterdays intake 
I kinda guessed there would be no champ beer or best brewer trophies or prizes for a comp with 2 categories.


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## remi (28/5/12)

Thanks for the feedback on my beer- very pleased with 2nd place.

Amazing that results and scoresheets were available already last night- awesome organisation.

Shame I couldn't make it on the day, looked like fun- thanks to Manticle for bringing my beer along.

Remi


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## Andyd (28/5/12)

Father Jack said:


> Well done to Kellee, Brewster extrordinaire, lots of gals stirring the pot now.
> 
> Andy, I'm going to challenge that result for champ brewer...seeing as there's no prize, how did you calculate that? are you counting non placing entries?...just curious...or maybe your liver is still processing yesterdays intake
> I kinda guessed there would be no champ beer or best brewer trophies or prizes for a comp with 2 categories.



It's worth challenging, although as you point out it there's no prize because of the limited nature of the comp.

The same rules that apply to Beerfest were applied here... highest number of points (each on 3) then the sum of the brewer's top 3 beers, which ironically enough this time includes two of the bottom placed beers in category 1. 

Not a system I've been a fan of in the past, but the one employed none-the-less to break ties on points. I'll have a chat with the guys about it and try to get something more appropriate across the board implemented for Beerfest next year.

Andy


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## geoffd (28/5/12)

Andyd said:


> It's worth challenging, although as you point out it there's no prize because of the limited nature of the comp.
> 
> The same rules that apply to Beerfest were applied here... highest number of points (each on 3) then the sum of the brewer's top 3 beers, which ironically enough this time includes two of the bottom placed beers in category 1.
> 
> ...



Lol that IS funny, he wins for producing two bad beers, If only I'd pissed in a bottle or entered a VB
Had assumed it would go to the highest score of the qualifying (placed) beer after a tie on points....Andy your countbacks are not working in my favour...remember the export stout in bfest 2011.

Watch out Derek, I'll be entering a whole case of VB to win the title next year


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## Andyd (28/5/12)

Father Jack said:


> Lol that IS funny, he wins for producing two bad beers, If only I'd pissed in a bottle or entered a VB
> Had assumed it would go to the highest score of the qualifying (placed) beer after a tie on points....Andy your countbacks are not working in my favour...remember the export stout in bfest 2011.
> 
> Watch out Derek, I'll be entering a whole case of VB to win the title next year



Not my countbacks - just the ones the club uses at the moment. In honesty they were not designed for the smaller comp, and have mostly served us well in Beerfest. Like I said, we'll give some consideration to changing them in light of this


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## manticle (28/5/12)

Very disappointed with how my beers fared but I had a fun day and I've always believed the beers at the top likely deserve to be there and the beers at the bottom probably equally so (mine were neither).

Interesting comments from the judges - wish I had some left to pin you guys down at the meeting because there's a few things I never picked up in the beers but that's part of the fun. Unfortunately the closest I have is a re-brew of the best bitter.

Had a good day, even though Wolfy hinted I was slow (witted). You can get your own bottle tops out of the bin next time.

Congrats to winners and place getters, especially those who were entering a comp for the first time.

Nice to see a few new faces.


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## Wolfy (28/5/12)

manticle said:


> Had a good day, even though Wolfy hinted I was slow (witted). You can get your own bottle tops out of the bin next time.


True, but I cleaned up all the your mess while you relaxed and had a chat/beer, so that should make up for it. :beer:


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## manticle (28/5/12)

Me leave a mess behind?

That's unusual. 

Buy you a beer some time.


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## Andyd (28/5/12)

Wolfy said:


> True, but I cleaned up all the your mess while you relaxed and had a chat/beer, so that should make up for it. :beer:



I really should have put out big props to all the new event crew who came on board for this event...

Yorg - Judge Director
Wolfy - Chief Steward (and mop wielder by the sounds of things)
Sibog - Data Entry

and last, but not least, Manticle - Sponsorship and Comms.

Well done guys - you all did a sterling job on the day!

Andy


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## Adam Howard (28/5/12)

Hope the second longneck I supplied got enjoyed (#16). Pretty stoked with 97 for my first comp entry. Issues identified are easily remedied, nice to know that the judges found it highly drinkable even if it wasn't exactly to style. Hooked now! Loved the judge feedback.


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## Wolfy (28/5/12)

Adamski29 said:


> Hope the second longneck I supplied got enjoyed (#16).


I think *Andyd *took that one home with him ... maybe you should ask him to submit a judging for you also.


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## Adam Howard (29/5/12)

That would be rad if he did. I will ask him tomorrow. I meant to give him some at the last meeting but I ran out. How did you find it Steve?


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## Hoser (29/5/12)

Father Jack said:


> Lol that IS funny, he wins for producing two bad beers, If only I'd pissed in a bottle or entered a VB
> Had assumed it would go to the highest score of the qualifying (placed) beer after a tie on points....Andy your countbacks are not working in my favour...remember the export stout in bfest 2011.
> 
> Watch out Derek, I'll be entering a whole case of VB to win the title next year




Congratulations Geoff - looks like you brewed up a very well presented Scottish 80. Would've loved to try it. Congrats to Kellee too - great novice showing!! Unfortunately my valve flipped on my counter pressure filler on me post filling the ESB bottle so the rest of the beer ended out in my sanitation bucket! That was the last of the ESB!!

I'm very much in agreement with the judges feedback with all my beers, good and not so good. I've never made a Mild before nor did I really understand what it should taste like. I thought it wasn't half bad. Having attended on the day and sampled a bit I can now see what good/great truly is. Will work to get there for sure!

Andrew, Andy, Wolfy, judges, etc - great job with a very organised and effective day. Well run event gang!


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## geoffd (30/5/12)

Hoser said:


> Congratulations Geoff - looks like you brewed up a very well presented Scottish 80. Would've loved to try it. Congrats to Kellee too - great novice showing!! Unfortunately my valve flipped on my counter pressure filler on me post filling the ESB bottle so the rest of the beer ended out in my sanitation bucket! That was the last of the ESB!!
> 
> I'm very much in agreement with the judges feedback with all my beers, good and not so good. I've never made a Mild before nor did I really understand what it should taste like. I thought it wasn't half bad. Having attended on the day and sampled a bit I can now see what good/great truly is. Will work to get there for sure!
> 
> Andrew, Andy, Wolfy, judges, etc - great job with a very organised and effective day. Well run event gang!



Only hope you have is to put your hand up for judging vicbrew, that batch didnt last long at all. will probably do it again next year. at least one judge also commented that it was balanced toward malt & suggested adding some roast barley...again the guidelines say it should be balanced slightly toward malt. I'm not having a bitch or anything, just seeing an oportunity for learning, I just felt that & the comments on wanting more complexity were not inkeeping with how I read the guidelines. maybe my interpretation is arseways or maybe the judges perceived the balance to be weighted to malt more than I did.

I guess I decided to give feedback here, coz it's the second time recently I felt a beer was judged contrary to guidelines, had a belgian pale ale that was criticised in belg bfest for not having the usual belgian characters, even though the guidelines say this is a unique belgian in that it's malt driven with only soft fruit esters.

I'm seriously not having a moan, just some constructive (as I see it anyway) feedback. I think there is a weak spot in comp judging where some folks dont refresh themselves on reading the guidelines. This may or may not have been the case with my beers, but I do feel it happens.


nighty night...it's late.


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