# What Australian beers are good examples of a certain hop?



## Scobieb (18/11/13)

Hi Guys,

Well into my home brewing at the moment, and to try and establish what tastes I liked, I wondered if you might be able to tell me what beers are good examples of certain type of hops.

For example I tried Oakham Ales Citra at the weekend, which is a single hop beer using citra. After thinking I liked the taste of the citra hop for a while, it quite put me off.

Im particularly interested in brewing IPAs so, any examples of IPAs with certain hops in would be great for me.


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## .DJ. (18/11/13)

Get to a BWS, you can get a 4 pack of Brigde Road Single Hop IPA's

Galaxy
Ella
Victoria Secret
Summer


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## brewbienewbie (18/11/13)

Stone & Wood Pacific Ale - Galaxy


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## JaseH (18/11/13)

VB = POR


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## Toper (18/11/13)

Feral Golden Ace. Sorachi Ace as the hop.


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## Phoney (18/11/13)

Mikkeller, while not Australian but available in Australia do a single hop IPA of a lot of varieties too.


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## fletcher (18/11/13)

Frothie said:


> VB = POR


i used POR for the first time in a brew recently and realised how lovely this hop is. i only knew it in beers like VB and carlton, and understand it to not actually be the hop itself they use but some sort of cheaper option right? fresh POR is beautiful. such a fuller flavour than the tastes in the megaswill drinks


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## Barry (18/11/13)

I like Citra but not in some beers I have tried. The hop character will vary with malts, yeast, water, fermentation, quantities and timing of additions, etc.. So sometimes it is worth giving a hop a second chance. I like POR in some of the beers that I have brewed but usually at 20 IBU's or less. Galaxy can be bit too much if it is used for high bitterness IMHO.
Sorry I know it is a bit OT.


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## Dan Pratt (18/11/13)

if your looking to figure out what hops are what, try Bridge Roads single hop collection and for an overseas version the Mikeller beers that are all siingle hop IPA's.


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## staggalee (18/11/13)

Barry said:


> I like Citra but not in some beers I have tried. The hop character will vary with malts, yeast, water, fermentation, quantities and timing of additions, etc.. So sometimes it is worth giving a hop a second chance. I like POR in some of the beers that I have brewed but usually at 20 IBU's or less. Galaxy can be bit too much if it is used for high bitterness IMHO.
> Sorry I know it is a bit OT.


Nice to see you still around, Barry. You would be one of the few originals left on the site. Your posts are to few and far between.


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## Camo6 (18/11/13)

A couple of mates and I went through the Mikkeller single hop range a while ago. Everyone of them was a cracking beer but probably not the best way to identify individual hop character. Personally I think a hoppy APA would work better than an IPA.
We went thirds in each bottle over the avo, with homebrew palate cleansers in between, with a printout of what to expect from each hop but towards the end we was all like: "Mmmm shitrush, mmmmm piiiney." Worth tasting though.


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## Spiesy (18/11/13)

Camo6 said:


> A couple of mates and I went through the Mikkeller single hop range a while ago. Everyone of them was a cracking beer but probably not the best way to identify individual hop character. Personally I think a hoppy APA would work better than an IPA.
> We went thirds in each bottle over the avo, with homebrew palate cleansers in between, with a printout of what to expect from each hop but towards the end we was all like: "Mmmm shitrush, mmmmm piiiney." Worth tasting though.
> 
> 
> ...


I've had a few of them and thought they weren't great at all - good to try to pick out some qualities of a hop, but there was just too much (mostly it was deep and danky, not bright, florally or citrus-like).

Maybe the ones I tried hadn't travelled overly well... and I should have checked the date.


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## Bribie G (18/11/13)

fletcher said:


> i used POR for the first time in a brew recently and realised how lovely this hop is. i only knew it in beers like VB and carlton, and understand it to not actually be the hop itself they use but some sort of cheaper option right? fresh POR is beautiful. such a fuller flavour than the tastes in the megaswill drinks


CUB uses a couple of hop extracts from POR. The main one is an extract produced by liquid "supercritical" CO2 that actually contains all the flavour and aroma compounds. Then there is Isohop which is basically just a fraction that contains the isomerised alpha acids. There is a common misconception that Aussie megaswills just use "isohop" which is incorrect.

Various combinations of hop extract and isohop are added when the beer is "dressed" on the way to the packing line. For a good example of a beer with a light but noticeable hop nose try Melbourne Bitter.

Many of the cheap euro imports such as Oettinger just use an extract but still have the typical Hallertau etc hop aroma and flavour. For a really good example of POR added in its natural form: Coopers Sparkling, served not too cold. Nice hop whiff on opening.


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## Ducatiboy stu (18/11/13)

And if you want to see how POR & Saaz go.....grab a Coopers Mild


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## Droopy Brew (18/11/13)

Ducatiboy stu said:


> And if you want to see how POR & Saaz go.....grab a Coopers Mild


Then get a Redback and see how a different yeast/malt combo goes with the same hops (POR and Saaz)


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## Camo6 (18/11/13)

Spiesy said:


> I've had a few of them and thought they weren't great at all - good to try to pick out some qualities of a hop, but there was just too much (mostly it was deep and danky, not bright, florally or citrus-like).
> 
> Maybe the ones I tried hadn't travelled overly well... and I should have checked the date.


Yeah, can understand that. To me they all tasted very similar, more or less, but all entirely drinkable. The given IBU's on the bottle ranged from 75-100 IIRC and made it hard to differentiate one hop from the other with my inarticulate palate. The ones we had certainly weren't fresh but the bloke who sourced them was a former bartender from Biero's and was confident of their handling. I've had a lot worse IPA's from Dan Murphy's and the like. I had a BP Big Eye the other day, which I normally enjoy, that tasted like it was bled from a cypress and left in the sun for a week. Mmmmmmmm.


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## Josh SA (18/11/13)

Hey Scobieb.

I loved Citra in my home brews but was really disappointed with oakham citra ale also.
Citra ale seemed to be lacking in everything. Oakhams Scarlet maccaw is heaps better beer.

SNPA tastes like cascade, JSGA used to taste like amarillo. other than that i dont know.

Ive wanted to experiment with single hop beers. With the same grist, same flav & aroma quantities and only the bittering addition adjusted to give same IBUs. would learn a lot about diff varieties, but at this point i am strugling to find time to put down a kit brew. cheers josh.


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## tavas (18/11/13)

Sorry for the off topic, but Is 2g/l a good starting point for dry hopping Citra? I have an APA ready for dry hopping but I have never used Citra before. Thinking 2g/l would be a good start to get a taste of it.

Edit: spelling


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## Barry (19/11/13)

Yes 2g/l would be a good staring point. I tend to dry hop in two parts. For example 20g for 2 days, removed (needs to be in a hop bag or, like I use, a large ss tea ball) then another 20g for two days. Seems to maximise oils and minimise vegetal doing it this way. Others will have different opinions.


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## Shonkzy (19/11/13)

Try the beer Called Arvo. Nice Armarillo Note to it


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## hoppinmad (19/11/13)

Knappstein Reserve Lager with 100% Nelson Sauvin. Being a straight pilsner malt beer it really helps display all that Nelson Sauvin has to offer. Almost reminiscent of a sauvignon blanc wine with lychee, passionfruit and cut grass characters. Mouth watering stuff


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## PeteQ (19/11/13)

Wicked Elf pale ale - Cascade hops

Possibly my favourite Australian beer at the moment but that changes on nearly a weekly basis...


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## Yob (19/11/13)

Single hop beers? *BAH!! *

I wouldnt judge a hop (Citra is bloody lurvly :icon_drool2: ) by one miserable commercial beer tasting... a beer made by accountants (or even brewers with a fear of them) is never going to stand against a well made, rounded and ballanced home brewed craft beer.

While I often enjoy a commercial beer, (Think Hog and BP Big Eye) I dont think Ive ever sought out single hop beers ever... For me, I like complexity in a hop profile and you just cant get that with a single hop, somewhere between 2 and 6 is magic... half the fun is _*working out *_how much of what dances well with how much of what.. (and how often)

naturally... just my opinion though..

2 ha' pennys


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## of mice and gods (19/11/13)

You're making our amateur brains melt Yob. I'm still working out the characteristics of individual hops utilised at different times and in different ways.. 6 at a time is a little further off for me. I do see where you're coming from though with the combos. Actually I have been thinking about doing a range of smash beers to get my head around some different malts and hops.. anyway.. I guess my house brew is a 6.5% Galaxy IPA so I've been melting myself on that for awhile happily but I want to explore more in a less mind bending kind of way.

Now, I've been having similar thoughts to the OP about differentiating flavours because it seems that some people are smelling/tasting a lot more then i am... although i am a smoker so i'll never be a world famous beer critic (which I do not want to be anyway!), But I want to see if I can identify these flavours a bit more.

So I bought the Bridge Roads Beer School Single Hop IPA pack today. Gonna go through them and see what happens.. (also grabbed a Feral Golden Ace to try Sorachi ace in an Australian beer).

Recommended tasting order that I'll follow is:
1. Summer
2. Vic Secret
3. Galaxy
4. Ella
*Note bitterness not shown, hop profile & malt profiel shown on bottle from 1 (mild) to 10 (extreme), so I'll give these.


*1. Summer IPA 4.8% malt 5/10 hops 8/10*
*inscription: spice & fruit notes, hints of stonefruit & melon.* 
- ok, so i got the overall fruity nose, bit of grassiness(?) on the nose as well as flavour, mild mild citrus after.. couldn't get any stonefruit and i think the melon i ended up smelling was a placebo.


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## Camo6 (19/11/13)

Yob said:


> Single hop beers? *BAH!! *
> 
> I wouldnt judge a hop (Citra is bloody lurvly :icon_drool2: ) by one miserable commercial beer tasting... a beer made by accountants (or even brewers with a fear of them) is never going to stand against a well made, rounded and ballanced home brewed craft beer.
> 
> ...


Now you're just rubbing our noses in your variety of choice! I bet the hardest part of your brewday is choosing which of the 3,682,890 combinations of hops you could go with.


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## anthonyUK (19/11/13)

I don't know what you were expecting from the Oakham Citra. It is pretty much a Citra SMASH so is never going to be overly complex and is an exercise in showcasing the hop (Oakham were apparently the first UK commercial brewer to use Citra).

Oakham do a version for Marks & Spencer in UK which is 4.9% instead of 4.2% and I like it.

I'm sorry I can't help with any Aussie beers but brewing SMASHs are a great way to isolate hop flavours.


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## Yob (19/11/13)

Bah!! Only if you like one dimensional beer... Not a fan of SMASH beers... A bottle I can get through.. A keg of it bores me to tears..

Personal opinion naturally and tastes vary.

I don't believe many hops at all are great by themselves..


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## fletcher (20/11/13)

i have to agree with yob, but only after having brewed a lot of single hop beers to get an idea on their tastes. i'm bored of that now apart from making one here and there for friends who aren't big craft brew drinkers. once you've done that and then start venturing into 2 and 3 hop beers, it's a lot of fun tasting them and seeing how they work together.


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## of mice and gods (20/11/13)

..**** well that went well. I guess I should have had breakfast first and not topped up from the keg fridge.

From what I can remember now, the beers got increasingly more hopeforward as I went through the list. I remember thinking Vic Secret and Galaxy could be a nice combo. Very similar in taste and smell (to me) with a few slight nuances.. As for specific aromas and flavours I can't remember sorry.

I really enjoyed the Ella, so I'm gonna hunt down some of this for brewing.

The Feral Golden Ace was really nice. I haven't had mnay (any?) Golden Ales before so this was something new to me. It had that refreshing "noble-ish" aroma of a typical Sapporo. Vastly different from my normal run of APA/IPA but it was a really enjoyable, light refreshing beer. I'd definately go this again.

And ladies and gentlemen, that's what we call Science.

Al


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## of mice and gods (20/11/13)

Yob, gives us a heads up mate. What's your favourite 3 hop combo for hopfoward beers?


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## Yob (20/11/13)

Hard to go past the likes of...

Simcoe/mosaic/citra

Centennial/Citra/Amarillo

Cascade/Chinook/Mosaic (etc)

I will typically look to balance a pine type with a fruit type, to try and get the complex play of flavours.

The list go's on...


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## jaypes (20/11/13)

Murrays Angry Man = Pacifica + Motueka = Drool

I am also with Fletcher in regards to POR, I brewed a megaswill for a mate but loaded the POR - turned out to be an OK beer - **** all flavour but a nice aroma.

19L gone in 2 weeks - he must have liked it as well


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## bmarshall (26/11/13)

Epic zythos.
Liberty savignon bomb.
Yum.
Didnt know wicked elf was just cascade. Good beer.


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## bmarshall (27/11/13)

Red duck have new single hop ipa "bobcat" with simcoe.


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## adryargument (27/11/13)

bmarshall said:


> Red duck have new single hop ipa "bobcat" with simcoe.


Red duck.... Port macquarie or is that Black Duck?
Will have to visit them when i drive past for xmas, great bowling lane tables.


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## bmarshall (28/11/13)

adryargument said:


> Red duck.... Port macquarie or is that Black Duck?
> Will have to visit them when i drive past for xmas, great bowling lane tables.


To quote red duck news letter.
We are making the slow transition
to 500ml bottles for all our
Limited Releases: The first ale
to appear in this format will be
Bobcat American IPA 7.5%, a
single hop brew, using Simcoe.
Bobcat has been bottled and
should be out prowling around
soon.

There in Ballarat.


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## TimT (28/11/13)

Yob, don't you find that in multi-hop beers some of the flavours will tend to cancel one another out? I suspect that hop selection has to be very careful to avoid this sort of thing happening.

Hops are a beautiful thing, it's true, but next year I want to try a lot of herbal brewing. So my quest over the summer/Christmas break will be to find out good bittering substitutes for hops.


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## pat86 (3/12/13)

anthonyUK said:


> I don't know what you were expecting from the Oakham Citra. It is pretty much a Citra SMASH so is never going to be overly complex and is an exercise in showcasing the hop (Oakham were apparently the first UK commercial brewer to use Citra).
> 
> Oakham do a version for Marks & Spencer in UK which is 4.9% instead of 4.2% and I like it.
> 
> I'm sorry I can't help with any Aussie beers but brewing SMASHs are a great way to isolate hop flavours.


I am happy I put down the bottle of Oakham Citra yesterday and grabbed a Mikeller Bravo instead. I thought it was great but haven't tried their others yet


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## Yob (3/12/13)

TimT said:


> Yob, don't you find that in multi-hop beers some of the flavours will tend to cancel one another out? I suspect that hop selection has to be very careful to avoid this sort of thing happening


I've mentioned this elsewhere I think but as with all things beer it's all about a balance, you need the right malt profile and the right hop profile, I always try to balance fruity hops with piney type hops, Citra and Simcoe as an example, Calypso and cascade etc etc, there aren't many hops out there (IMO) that do it all by themselves (Citra, Simcoe and mosaic are examples of ones that do) but again, you really want to be getting the additions right.

The last case swap I went to, I took a keg that had been in the keg for 3 days and keg hopped for 2 of them.. It was demolished.. I think from memory it was a 3 hop blend, I don't think I could have got away with that with any one of those on their own.

3 days to condition a 5% APA is pretty bloody good (2 weeks from grain to brain)


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## carniebrew (3/12/13)

bmarshall said:


> Epic zythos.
> <snip>


Calling Zythos a single hop beer is kinda cheating...given it's a proprietary blend of hops targeted for use in APA/IPA's...


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## pat86 (3/12/13)

HoppinMad said:


> Knappstein Reserve Lager with 100% Nelson Sauvin. Being a straight pilsner malt beer it really helps display all that Nelson Sauvin has to offer. Almost reminiscent of a sauvignon blanc wine with lychee, passionfruit and cut grass characters. Mouth watering stuff


I always liked Knappstein, used to be a beer of choice going back a few years - if you have been drinking it since it came out has it changed at all? Been a while since my last one. Will have to get some Nelson Sauvin soon...


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