# Js Golden Ale - Recipe Comments



## colinw (16/5/06)

My brother-in-law and I have become unreasonably fond of James Squire Golden Ale - it being the beer he generally brings over when sharing my homebrew - and having plenty of Amarillo sitting in my freezer have decided to try to make something similar.

Based on Googling and previous threads here, I have decided on all Aussie malts where possible, including 30% wheat malt, PoR for bittering and restrained use of Amarillo for flavour and aroma.

My proposed recipe is:

JS Golden Ale Clone
24 litres at my usual efficiency (22 into fermenter after losses)

3kg JW Export Pilsner Malt (60%)
1.5kg JW Wheat Malt (30%)
250g JW Dark Munich Malt (5%)
150g CaraPils (3%)
50g JW Crystal 145 EBC (1%)
50g Chocolate Malt (1%)

Infusion mash, 90 minutes at 66 degrees C.

Boil: 90 minutes

20g Pride of Ringwood (10%AA) pellets @ 60 minutes
10g Amarillo (8.4%AA) pellets @ 12 minutes
10g Amarillo (8.4%AA) pellets @ 2 minutes
5g Amarillo pellets after strikeout

Estimated OG = 1.046
Estimated Bitterness = 28 IBUs
Estimated Colour = 8 SRM

Yeast: Wyeast 1056

Notes on the recipe. A bit of Munich because I detect a slight toastiness in the malt character of the beer. CaraPils to give the creamy head. Chocolate malt because I want a hint of copper in the colour, and it will add a bit of burnt dryness to the finish.
cheers,
Colin


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## jayse (16/5/06)

That recipe looks pretty damn good to me, thats almost exactly what I would do.


Born to booze.
Jayse


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## T.D. (16/5/06)

I have no problem with the chocolate malt, but I very much doubt that the real thing has it in there. I actually doubt it has any crystal either. I guess it depends on whether you are trying to make a clone or just something "similar".

My standard Golden Ale recipe is:

45% JW Ale malt
45% JW Pils malt
10% JW Wheat malt

Bitter to 27-28 IBUs
1g/L Amarillo @ 15mins
1g/L Amarillo @ flameout

I have made a version before that was something like 75% Pils malt, 20% Ale malt, and 5% Carapils with the same hop schedule and it turned out really well too. 

I like the look of your recipe but I think it will be darker and have a lot more body than the real thing. As I said, it depends if you are trying to clone the beer or just make something in a similar general style.


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## colinw (16/5/06)

I guess "clone" is probably the wrong term.

I want a beer which is recognisably like JS Golden, but is missing that "hole" in the middle where the flavour & body goes AWOL for a bit.


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## T.D. (16/5/06)

colinw said:


> I guess "clone" is probably the wrong term.
> 
> I want a beer which is recognisably like JS Golden, but is missing that "hole" in the middle where the flavour & body goes AWOL for a bit.
> [post="126675"][/post]​



Well, in that case I think your recipe is right on the money. The Crystal, Munich and chocolate will fill that hole nicely! :beerbang:


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## warrenlw63 (16/5/06)

colinw said:


> I guess "clone" is probably the wrong term.
> 
> I want a beer which is recognisably like JS Golden, but is missing that "hole" in the middle where the flavour & body goes AWOL for a bit.
> [post="126675"][/post]​



Unfortunately a bad flavour trait on most JS beers except for the IPA. In fact it can be a little frustrating. I'd hate to say it's the JW malt. :unsure: 

It's like I enjoy JS beers but find myself strangely wanting another merely because I felt like I didn't get the full measure with the first if that makes any sense. :blink: 

Warren -


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## jayse (16/5/06)

I make one like TD's recipe aswell but last time i tried golden ale it was a fair bit darker than the pale straw colour you end up with that recipe although that recipe is one i do a couple times and year and love to death. Mine actually originated from a recipe andrew at grumpys posted some years ago under the name XLCR.

I do think colins recipe is pretty spot on but the recipe TD posted is also another very cool way to do it.

Horse called war.
Jayse


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## warrenlw63 (16/5/06)

BTW Recipe looks nice Colin. :beerbang: 

Warren -


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## colinw (16/5/06)

Guys,

Thanks for the feedback - useful validation. This is the first time I have used Amarillo in a "restrained" mode rather than the usual legions of angry pellets charging over the hill with lupulin glands drawn.

My problem with the JS beers is as Warren says - you take a sip, it tastes great, but seems to sort of fizzle out leaving you wanting more but feeling vaguely disappointed.

In particular the Amber Ale leaves me cold these days - to me it tastes just like Tooheys Old which someone accidentally left the black malt out of - even the same aroma.


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## T.D. (16/5/06)

warrenlw63 said:


> Unfortunately a bad flavour trait on most JS beers except for the IPA. In fact it can be a little frustrating. I'd hate to say it's the JW malt. :unsure:
> 
> It's like I enjoy JS beers but find myself strangely wanting another merely because I felt like I didn't get the full measure with the first if that makes any sense. :blink:
> 
> ...



Its funny you should mention this Warren. Just the other day I was thinking about this very thing. I have used Powells malt for the past 6 months or so and I find Powells ale to be much more full bodied than JW ale. In fact I did two brews that were identical exacpt one was 100% Powells Ale and the other was 100% JW Ale. Due to the JW brew's higher efficiency, it had a slightly higher alcohol content, but overall I still thought the Powells brew had more body and flavour. Very interesting outcome I thought.


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## colinw (16/5/06)

I've used a fair bit of JW Traditional Ale, as well as Bairds Maris Otter and Fawcett's Halcyon Ale Malt. Never tried Powell's but keep hearing good things about it.

I find the differences between different ale malts quite distinct.

- JW Trad. Ale malt is distinctly darker than the UK malts I've used, and gives a slightly bready/biscuity flavour
- Maris Otter gives the most malty and rounded flavours, almost caramelly even without much crystal malt
- Halcyon is my favourite so far. It gives a lovely malty but crisp flavour, and with some yeasts even the vaguest hint of a slightly peaty/smoky flavour. For a Scottish ale I'd say it cant be beat!

For Aussie malts, by far the best results I've had so far have been by mixing JW Trad. Ale and JW Export Pils in roughly 50/50 proportion. All of my American Pale Ales are formulated this way, with a minimum of 5% medium crystal as well.

The Golden Ale recipe is a change for me, but I want to brew something new & different but resembling a commercial beer I quite like (even with the faults Warren and I have noted).

cheers,
Colin


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## T.D. (16/5/06)

I guess it would be silly to ever assume that all ale malts would be the same, I always thought you could mostly use them interchangably though, but its obviously a bit more complex than that!

I like the 1/2 Ale - 1/2 Pils split too. My last APA was all Pils as the base malt (with crystal too of course) and it just didn't have enough body. Will be including at least some ale malt in the future!


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## Samwise Gamgee (16/5/06)

Hi Colin,

I've played around with a Golden Ale recipe before. Here's a link to my Xmas entry which was my Golden Ale

Golden Ale

I actually liked this better than the JS Golden Ale but I liked to have more Amarillo flavour and aroma.

Cheers,


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## warrenlw63 (16/5/06)

Could it be that JW Trad Ale is almost exclusively malted to spec for Malt Shovel? :unsure: 

It's a poor generalization but I've always found my JW beers to have that Malt Shovel flavour. :lol: 

BTW Been using Powells exclusively for the last 3 brews, while I'd say it's a little better than JW Trad Ale for British styles it still doesn't hold a candle to Marris Otter. Particularly in lower grav beers that cling to what little malt you afford them. h34r: 

Warren -


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## Trough Lolly (16/5/06)

colinw said:


> ...
> In particular the Amber Ale leaves me cold these days - to me it tastes just like Tooheys Old which someone accidentally left the black malt out of - even the same aroma.
> [post="126685"][/post]​



Ditto to that! I used to swear by JS Amber as one of my favourite commercial beers but lately I had a 6 pack and was, well, disappointed... :blink: 

I was all set to put down an IPA over the weekend, but that recipe of your's Colin looks good - I'm gonna have a go at it too!  Only probs are my lack of JW malt - I'll have to make do with Weyermann Pils and Wheat malt and I'll grab some Dark Munich at the HBS, or bake some of my Bairds munich to colour...

Cheers,
TL


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## colinw (16/5/06)

Compare notes in a month or two! :beer:

Which reminds me, I need to apply for my "permission to brew" slip.


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## Screwtop (16/5/06)

colinw said:


> Compare notes in a month or two! :beer:
> 
> Which reminds me, I need to apply for my "permission to brew" slip.
> [post="126746"][/post]​




CW, where's the honey, thought JS Golden Ale had honey. Thought I could get a hint of it in the draught, anyway.


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## colinw (16/5/06)

I seriously doubt it has any honey in it, nor does the blurb on the JS website mention it.

Honey like flavours and aromas can sometimes occur as a result of mild oxidation.


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## Mr Bond (16/5/06)

MMMM.....That recipe looks like a nice balanced ale Colin.

On the base malt digression i too found JW trad ale bland and unsatisfying(hence I've only used it once).
Marris Otter however is sensational.I once did a 60% MO 40% JW light munich base plus some cara munich and choc(4 colour),and loved it.JW light munich seems to be closer to an english ale malt to my palate and works well with MO.


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## wessmith (16/5/06)

Warren, the JW Trad Ale Malt was developed exclusively for Malt Craft. As far as I know, no other big commercial brewer has ever used that malt. Agree with all the comments about MO and Halcyon but nothing comes close to the floor malted malts from Thomas Fawcett for flavour and consistency. As for Powells, they should have been able to produce a great floor malted ale malt from day one. They didnt - but if they have now got there act together, thats great. I will have to try another brew! Just hope they have got the poor modification issues resolved.

Wes


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## T.D. (16/5/06)

Wes, I doubt they have fixed the modification problems - I consistently get 10% lower efficiency with Powells compared to JW. Having said that, I see no problems with their quality - its great malt. The lower cost more than covers the lower efficiency. I can't give you a definitive comparison to other floor malted grain though like MO as I have not done a direct comparison. I think I am going to go back to JW from my next grain order onwards - but only because my LHBS is now moving back towards JW away from Powells. I would happily continue using Powells. I must say though, I am looking forward to only needing to mill the grain once and getting higher efficiency again when I go back to JW.

Re the Malt Shovel using JW malt thing, I don't know if you are suggesting that they don't use JW, but I have seen bags of the stuff in the brewery on a couple of tours I have been on. They also show it in the movie that you can view on the MSB website.


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## wessmith (16/5/06)

TD, Malt Shovel use JW malts exclusively. But they dont use the Trad Ale Malt or the Export Pilsner Malt. They have there own pale malt spec which is produced at the JW plant in Tamworth. The other specialties come from from JW Ballarat.

Wes


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## T.D. (17/5/06)

Ah, now I getcha!


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## Jazzafish (17/5/06)

Recipe looks good, but like Sam I would up the Amarillo.

I have found this beer to be completely different on draught compared to bottles. Like the draught better. This could be a use by date issue.


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## sah (17/5/06)

T.D. said:


> My standard Golden Ale recipe is:
> 
> 45% JW Ale malt
> 45% JW Pils malt
> ...



TD,

What original gravity do you make this to?

thanks
Scott


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## MVZOOM (17/5/06)

Had it on tap - nice beer. I thought (could've sworn!) the aroma hops were cascade?

Cheers - Mike


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## bradmcm (17/5/06)

You shouldn't swear so much then.


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## normell (17/5/06)

Hi all
If you don't know the EXTACT grain hops bill, you will never make an exact JS amber ale clone.
Its all experimentation, some will turn out close, some worse, and some better (in your opinion)  

Normell


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## T.D. (17/5/06)

sah said:


> T.D. said:
> 
> 
> > My standard Golden Ale recipe is:
> ...



Scott,

Somewhere around 1.045 will do nicely. The last one I did I somehow got much higher efficiency than expected at the brew ended up at around 5% alc/vol. I would rather stick at around the 4.5-4.6 level though if possible. Great summer time quaffing beer.


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## Barry (19/5/06)

Good Day
Sorry but did not have time to reply earlier. I have attemped to make a Golden ale and the result was close IMHO.
Side by side (sip by sip) to the real GA, mine was slightly less "gold" in colour and less "gold" in malt flavour but hop flavour and aroma was very close. Hard to tell much difference when not together. If interested the recipe for 22+ L batch is as follows.

OG 1.046, FG 1.010, 5% (when bottled), 20+ IBU, BUGU 0.44.

3.5 kg Maris Otter
0.5 kg Wheat malt
0.5 kg JW Vienna
0.150 kg Melanoidan
0.100 kg JW Caramalt
0.050 kg JW Dark Crystal

Amarillo 9.8% 15 gms boil, 10 gms 25 mins, 10 gms 7 mins, 10 gms 0 to -10 mins.
5 gms CaSo4 mash.

WLP 004 Irish (because I had it)

Mash at 65oC for 80 mins, 70oC for 10 mins.

To make more "golden" I would add 100 gms more vienna, or 20 gms more melanoidan. You could increase the cara or dak crystal instead??


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## colinw (23/5/06)

Well, I made mine on the weekend and ended up having to change the recipe when I discovered I was out of CaraPils. What I ended up making was much the same as my original post except I replaced the 150g of CaraPils with an extra 50g of 55L crystal and an extra 100g of dark munich. The aroma hops were slightly higher than in my original post because I measured out a little too much.

This batch is fermenting nicely, after the *wierdest* start to fermentation I have ever seen - but that is another story which I will post in The Common Ground.

I think this is going to be a great beer.


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## T.D. (23/5/06)

I am brewing a golden ale type beer this weekend. Off the top of my head the recipe will be something like:

3.5kg Powells Pilsner malt
1kg Powells Ale malt
0.5kg Powells Wheat malt
0.25 Weyermann Cara Red

NB to 27 IBUs
25g Amarillo @ 15 mins
25g Amarillo @ 0 mins

US-56 yeast.

Its been a while since I have brewed an American Ale so I am really keen to get this one happening! I just hope it ferments out ok now that the weather has started to get a bit colder!


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## colinw (23/5/06)

That looks tasty. I love Northern Brewer as a bittering hop.

US-56 works fine at 16C, so you should be fine.


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## colinw (6/6/06)

Just a quick follow up about how the JS Golden Ale clone went.

I kegged & bottled the beer a few days ago, and although it is early days yet a first tasting of the beer from the keg indicates that this recipe is close to the mark. My OG was about 1.043 and FG was 1.009 for around 4.5% alcohol, very similar to the commercial beer.

Colour, bitterness, hops flavour, malt character are very similar to JS Golden Ale. The aroma is a little bit lacking compared to the commercial version, leading me to believe I should increase the post-flamout aroma addition of Amarillo to maybe 15-20 grams.

The only other changes I would make is either an increase in the amount of munich malt, or replace some of the pale wheat malt with dark wheat malt, for a little more toasty character. Maybe reduce the crystal malt a little bit as well, as I perceive the JS beer as toasty but not caramelly.

Over all, I'd say with some tweaks the recipe I originally posted will go very close to reproducing this beer.


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## Bobby (6/6/06)

just started the boil on a 'golden ale'.
40% pils 40% ale 10% carapils 10%wheat.
bittered with northern brewer flavoured with lots of amarillo. smells great already.

got 79% efficiency!! not bad for my first go. happy with that. :beer:


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## Randall the Enamel Animal (7/6/06)

I have the exact recipe here, I wrote it if memory serves, but several of the ingredients are not readily available, some you wouldnt want to use, its not brewed at sale gravity and as it remains the intellectual property of LN, youll just have to wonder. Or try this:

21 litres boiled down to 20:

1.7 kg Joe White export pilsener
0.3 kg Joe White Caramalt (light crystal, 50 EBC)
0.5 kg Joe White dark Munich (20 EBC)
0.8 kg Wheat malt

Target OE of 10.5 plato, so adjust your pale up or down to suit the efficiency of your own kit.

For a 4.5% abv brew, you'll need the ferment to stop at 2.0 plato, quite low for an all-malt beer, so use a reasonably aggressive ale strain such as White Labs WLP007 or WLP001 and mash at 66-67 degrees.

Boil long enough to get that 5% evaporation. NZ Super Alpha (12.5% alpha) up front or any other clean bittering hop to contribute 11BU. Amarillo (9.0%) last 15 minutes and again Amarillo off boil. Beer should finish at 20 BU and have a colour of 20 EBC. AE 2.0, ABV 4.5.


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## Jim_Levet (7/6/06)

Randall the Enamel Animal said:


> but several of the ingredients are not readily available, some you wouldnt want to use,



Well Randall having a wealth of inside info, it sounds like he is suggesting the inclusion of white sugar(with or without GST), as most of us wouldn't add that to our AG brews. Is Pride or Super Pride a bittering option. Would use stuff all to get 11 IBU's.
Thanks Randall


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## Randall the Enamel Animal (7/6/06)

Depending upon the degree of authenticity you're seeking, the two options mentioned by Jim would not be out of place. However, all things in beer are synergistic, so a different and less attenuative yeast strain would be needed...


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## NRB (7/6/06)

Colin, are you comparing to the draught or bottled version? I'm a fan of it on tap, but the bottled version seems to lack all the hop character that makes it so good from the keg.


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## colinw (8/6/06)

Comparing draught with draught.

I've had both, and my beer seems more comparable to the draught in flavour, except the aroma is lacking to a level even less than the bottled version. (Although to be fair I have been a bit off colour and it could be me)


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## T.D. (8/6/06)

Randall the Enamel Animal said:


> I have the exact recipe here, I wrote it if memory serves, but several of the ingredients are not readily available, some you wouldnt want to use, its not brewed at sale gravity and as it remains the intellectual property of LN, youll just have to wonder. Or try this:
> 
> 21 litres boiled down to 20:
> 
> ...



Randall, I'm not at all disputing anything above (afterall, I didn't write the recipe!  ) but looking at the beer in the glass it is surprising to me that it is 20 EBC - I would have guessed more like 12-13. Furthermore, just looking at the recipe you posted, I can't see how that would get a beer to 20 EBC...

My last English Bitter was 18 EBC and it was quite a rich copper colour, certainly darker than JSGA. Like I say, you clearly know more about the beer than I do so I am definitely not saying you're wrong or anything! I just found that a little puzzling...

I might have to go and grab a case for research


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## Stuster (8/6/06)

Randall the Enamel Animal said:


> 21 litres boiled down to 20:
> 
> Boil long enough to get that 5% evaporation.



Not too sure about your system, but I'd definitely get more than 1 litre boil off during a 60 minute boil. :blink: 

Plugging that recipe into Promash gave an EBC of just under 12. Impressive T.D.


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## T.D. (8/6/06)

Stuster said:


> Randall the Enamel Animal said:
> 
> 
> > 21 litres boiled down to 20:
> ...



:lol: What a guess!


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## stephen (18/6/06)

colinw said:


> My brother-in-law and I have become unreasonably fond of James Squire Golden Ale - it being the beer he generally brings over when sharing my homebrew - and having plenty of Amarillo sitting in my freezer have decided to try to make something similar.
> 
> Based on Googling and previous threads here, I have decided on all Aussie malts where possible, including 30% wheat malt, PoR for bittering and restrained use of Amarillo for flavour and aroma.
> 
> ...


Colin

Just bottled your recipe yesterday. The only things I changed were the hops and the yeast:

16.2 gms POR @ 9.2%, 60 min
15 gms Amarillo @ 9 %, 15 min
15 gms Amarillo @ 9 %, 2 min, and
10 gms Amarillo dry hop.

Yeast - US-56.

The result was outstanding even from the fermenter! Thanks for the recipe. The other half was looking at me strange as I was drinking a glass of it at 10.30 in the morning! Can't wait for it to carbonate and mature.

Cheers

Steve


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## Bobby (18/6/06)

stephen said:


> The other half was looking at me strange as I was drinking a glass of it at 10.30 in the morning!



Haha, i think we have all been there :beer:


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## Jazzafish (18/6/06)

Went on a tour recently of the JS brewery with the Hills Brewers. We were privileged to try the golden ale from the bright beer tank. Was like a different beer to the one on draught up stairs. Tasted amazing, plenty of amarillo in there.

When talking about the beer, and seeing the bags of grain, I'm pretty confident that the following is used in it:

Joe White Pilsener
Joe White Caramalt 
Joe White Munich 
Joe White Wheat 
White Sugar

Chuck had also mentioned that the beer contains 30% Wheat.
Fermentation was also started at 15*C and naturally raised to 18*C, but the amount of yeast cells pitched escapes me.

May help with some recipes?


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## Randall the Enamel Animal (18/6/06)

*Like I said, some of the igredients are not available to homebrewers including a specific Joe White crystal type malt. Caramalt is a substitution and I haven't run it through ProMash as such (not that ProMash works well for colour anyway). 20 EBC is the sale gravity spec, so feel free to substitute a different crystal or change the proportion. The spec calls for 9-10% malt with a colour of 40. A point on colour, just because ProMash says it's 18, unless you put it on the machine, you really don't know.

*Sucrose is added to get to AE down to 2.0 plato with a poorly attenuative yeast. Using all grain, you'll need something more agressive than the strain used for GA, eg wlp001/US56

*Rule of thumb for pitching rate: One million viable cells per ml for every degree of wort plato, so 10-11 million/ml in this. Recipe calls for nearly double that. Useless info if you don't have a microscope and a haemacytometer.


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## Jim_Levet (19/6/06)

Randall the Enamel Animal said:


> *Like I said, some of the igredients are not available to homebrewers including a specific Joe White crystal type malt. Caramalt is a substitution and I haven't run it through ProMash as such (not that ProMash works well for colour anyway). 20 EBC is the sale gravity spec, so feel free to substitute a different crystal or change the proportion. The spec calls for 9-10% malt with a colour of 40. A point on colour, just because ProMash says it's 18, unless you put it on the machine, you really don't know.



So can we use Wyermann caraPils instead of the Joe White Carapils?
James


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## Randall the Enamel Animal (19/6/06)

Jim_Levet said:


> Randall the Enamel Animal said:
> 
> 
> > *Like I said, some of the igredients are not available to homebrewers including a specific Joe White crystal type malt. Caramalt is a substitution and I haven't run it through ProMash as such (not that ProMash works well for colour anyway). 20 EBC is the sale gravity spec, so feel free to substitute a different crystal or change the proportion. The spec calls for 9-10% malt with a colour of 40. A point on colour, just because ProMash says it's 18, unless you put it on the machine, you really don't know.
> ...



I wouldn't. Weyermann CaraPils has a colour of 4, JW CaraPils is a light crystal with a colour of 40.


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## wessmith (19/6/06)

Deans right. The Weyermann product is a true Carapils - the JW product is a "special" devloped for Lion Nathan. Maltcraft specifically rejected that crystal as its stewing temp is quite high and its intended role was to add body and some colour. It is just too cloying in an all malt beer. Caramalt is the best option but use sparingly unless you are using some sugar.

Wes


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## Screwtop (19/6/06)

> Randall, I'm not at all disputing anything above (afterall, I didn't write the recipe! ) but looking at the beer in the glass it is surprising to me that it is 20 EBC - I would have guessed more like 12-13. Furthermore, just looking at the recipe you posted, I can't see how that would get a beer to 20 EBC...




Not if some special sugar or syrup is added to achieve the OG and to help finish it low. I would put 20 EBC around 8 SRM colour so still light and gold. Also just shorten the boil to achieve a 5% boiloff.


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## colinw (19/6/06)

stephen said:


> Colin
> 
> Just bottled your recipe yesterday. The only things I changed were the hops and the yeast:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the feedback! My batch produced an outstanding session ale as well, although it is distinctly more bitter than Squire's Golden Ale.

I think you did the right thing cutting back the bittering hops and going a little heavier on the Amarillo. I'm going to brew another batch soon and will follow your hopping schedule.

I will also be using US-56 from now on. I don't see any point paying for 1056 or WLP001 when I get *exactly* the same result from a cheap sachet of US-56.

On the topic of drinking from the fermenter, on occasion SWMBO has accused me of taking samples just so I can drink them. But the most serious case was a session with my brother-in-law last year. I gave him a small taste of the finished stout still sitting in my fermenter, after which he proceeded to raid the fridge and fill his schooner glass straight from the fermenter. He must have ended up drinking nearly a litre!


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## stephen (3/7/06)

colinw said:


> My brother-in-law and I have become unreasonably fond of James Squire Golden Ale - it being the beer he generally brings over when sharing my homebrew - and having plenty of Amarillo sitting in my freezer have decided to try to make something similar.
> 
> Based on Googling and previous threads here, I have decided on all Aussie malts where possible, including 30% wheat malt, PoR for bittering and restrained use of Amarillo for flavour and aroma.
> 
> ...


Colinw

I'm sitting here having a sample of your fine recipe. The only thing I may suggest is swapping the Dark Munich for light Munich and reducing the chocolate to 30 gm. This should get the colour closer to the original. 

I'm also getting a very slight cloying sweetnes, possibly from the crystal - small amount that it is. So I would also remove the crystal.

As for the hops I would double the Amarillo hops. I actually increased them by 5 gms for each addition and reckon that doubling would be pretty close to the mark. 

Otherwise an excellent beer to sit down and relax with.

regards

Steve


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## colinw (9/7/06)

Steve,

Thanks! I have also come to the conclusion that the crystal and dark munich in my original are a bit too much, and that it needs more Amarillo. I'll post back here with my revised recipe after I brew it - but should be fairly close to what you suggest.

An interesting quirk has emerged in my batch - the bottles exhibit very much more munich malt "nutty" flavour than the kegged beer does. Normally my bottled & kegged beers are very similar indeed, but not so in this case. I actually prefer the more toasty flavour of the bottles, even though the kegged beer is closer to real JS Golden in flavour.

cheers,
Colin


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## devo (22/8/06)

I just brewed up this recipe about a week and a 1/2 ago. Got it in secondary at the moment w/ some amarillo dry hopping. Looking forward to hooking into this batch.


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## James Squire (8/9/06)

Hi all, 

I brewed a Golden Ale recently for my first ever AG using the 'All in one Brewery' method I have been writing about. The recipe was based on Colin's original grain bill from his first post here but with a slightly different hopping schedule. I went with:

17g POR @60
20g Amarillo @15
20g Amarillo @5
15g Amarillo dry hopped in secondary for 4 days.

The result is delicious! Very much a clone for the JS Golden Ale, the fresher draft version though. It is bewdiful! Highly recommend the recipe and once you tweak it up like you wanted to Colin make sure to put it into the recipe section.

Happy Brewing,

JS


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## devo (8/9/06)

James Squire said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I brewed a Golden Ale recently for my first ever AG using the 'All in one Brewery' method I have been writing about. The recipe was based on Colin's original grain bill from his first post here but with a slightly different hopping schedule. I went with:
> 
> ...




That is pretty much the same hop profile I used except I dry hopped w/20gms of Amarillo.

I'm really enjoying this brew.


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## DJR (15/10/06)

I just brewed up a Golden Ale style recipe, using mostly JW malts and a bit of guesswork to approximate the colour and flavour of JS Golden Ale. It will probably be more malty, hoppy, and alcoholic, but JS Golden ale needs that anyway 

23L, about 1045-1050 OG, 12EBC?
Grainbill:

JW Wheat 1.5kg (31%)
JW Export Pils 2.5kg (52%)
JW Dark Munich 30EBC 250g (5%)
JW Light Munich 18EBC 250g (5%)
JW Light Crystal 140EBC 100g (2%)
Weyermann Caramunich II 120EBC 100g (2%)
Weyermann Carapils 100g (2%)

Mashed @ 67C 45mins, 15mins @ 72C mashout. Batch sparge @ 75-78C

Hops:

10g PoR+ 13%AA - 60mins - 14IBU
20g Amarillo 8.5%AA - 15mins - 11IBU
28g Amarillo 8.5%AA - Flameout

Yeast: Mix of WLP036 Dusseldorf Alt and US56 (loving this blend together, so clean.)

I think this may be too light in colour, but i'm not sure that my program (Brewsta) is calculating my colour correctly, the wort looked a little darker than a 12EBC one. I guess if i subbed the Pilsner malt for a 50/50 split of Pilsner and Trad Ale, or added a bit (25g) of chocolate malt then it might be more to spec.

I'll see how i go and report back anyway, even if this is nowhere near JS GA it should still be a nice drop.


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## colinw (16/10/06)

All,

As posted in the 'Back in the Saddle' thread, I've been out of the game for a few months due to other committments (work, moving house). Its interesting to check in here and see this thread is still alive.

Now that I have time for brewing, I will be brewing a slight variation on the original version some time in the next few weeks. Changes from the original will be reduction of the munich malt and crystal, slight reduction in bitterness, a little more Amarillo for flavour and aroma, and a little bit of dextrose to dry the beer out a hint. Colour is slightly paler than the first version.

While my first batch was a fine beer which was recognisably similar to JS Golden Ale, it wasn't a true clone. It was more bitter, but slightly maltier at the same time. Probably due to the munich malt used.

Heres version 2 of the recipe - very similar to the original with some minor revisions. IBUs down to 25 from 28. Less crystal, less munich, pale munich instead of dark, slightly less chocolate malt, slightly less PoR, more Amarillo, and a little bit of dextrose to dry the beer out.

*JS Golden Ale Clone - version 2*

24 litres at my usual efficiency (22 into fermenter after losses)

3kg JW Export Pilsner Malt (62%)
1.45kg JW Wheat Malt (30%)
160g JW Pale Munich Malt (3.3%)
50g CaraPils (1%)
100g JW Crystal 145 EBC (2.1%)
40g Chocolate Malt (0.8%)

140g dextrose in boil (about 1.8 fermentable points)

Infusion mash, 90 minutes at 66 degrees C.

Boil: 90 minutes

16g Pride of Ringwood (10%AA) pellets @ 60 minutes
10g Amarillo (8.4%AA) pellets @ 15 minutes
15g Amarillo (8.4%AA) pellets @ 2 minutes
15g Amarillo pellets after strikeout

Estimated OG = 1.046
Estimated Bitterness = 25 IBUs
Estimated Colour = 7 SRM

Yeast: Wyeast 1056, WLP001 or Safale US-56.

cheers,
Colin 

View attachment 82_golden_ale_II.html


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## DJR (16/10/06)

Looks like a good recipe Colin. I don't think that they use Chocolate Malt though, probably JW Dark Crystal to add colour. Chuck Hahn said there are only 4 malts in it, Randall's recipe looks quite close. Something like this for 23L @ 80% efficiency - 1045 OG/18EBC - would be in the right ballpark:

JW Caramalt 440g 10%
JW Dark Crystal 220g 5%
JW Wheat 1.2kg 30%
50/50 mix of JW Pils and JW Trad Ale 1.8kg (0.9kg each) 45% (the real recipe would call for the Tooheys Pale malt spec @ 3.5EBC)
Cane sugar 250g 9.5% added to boil (because it wouldn't be a commercial Aus recipe without some sugar)

Probably mash @ 66C to make a fairly dry beer.


Hops - this is the key, something like 1.5g/L in total hops are used, so that would be about 10g of Pride Plus leaving about another 25g to add, 10g at 15mins and 15g at flameout would put it in the right ballpark for bitterness and flavour/aroma levels. 

Then again, adding more hops and maltiness to cover the "hole" is always a good idea. :beerbang: 

Hmm, i'm getting brewing ideas again


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## colinw (16/10/06)

Yeah - the chocolate malt is just something I do in nearly all my ales. Adds a bit of colour to its cheeks, and also makes my mash pH come out exactly where I want it. If I darken a beer to a similar colour with caramel malt, or with black malt, I can taste it, where the chocolate malt doesn't seem to disturb the flavour as much.

I'm not entirely convinced that the munich malt belongs in there either, although I sometimes get a subtle toasty character in JSGA. I suspect I may end up eliminating it entirely in a future version of this recipe.

If I was using a less attenuative yeast I'd up the sugar to as much as 10% of fermentable points, but with 1056 or US-56 I think I'd get way too dry a beer.

I've more or less given up on the idea of a neat 'clone' anyway. Too many differences between the ingredients we can source, and too many unknowns in the commercial process. The objective now is a beer which is as good or better than JSGA, but recognisably based on it.

cheers,
Colin


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## Aussie Claret (17/10/06)

Colinw,
Your recipe is very similar to one that made recently, it was very nice. I did a 40 litre batch half I fermented with US56 and the other half Old dog fermented with SO4, you wouldn't have believed they were the same recipe. The US56 gave a clean hoppier profile and the SO4 a clean but estery profile from the yeast.
Recipe below.
AC
45) Golden Ale clone 
American Pale Ale 


Type: All Grain 
Date: 13/08/2006 
Batch Size: 45.00 L 
Brewer: Paul 
Boil Size: 55.07 L Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 75 min Equipment: My Equipment 
Taste Rating(out of 50): 43.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 
Taste Notes: 
Ingredients 

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
4.50 kg Pale Malt, Traditional Ale (Joe White) (5.9 EBC) Grain 42.7 % 
4.00 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (3.2 EBC) Grain 38.0 % 
1.00 kg Munich, Dark (Joe White) (29.6 EBC) Grain 9.5 % 
1.00 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (3.5 EBC) Grain 9.5 % 
0.04 kg Chocolate Malt (Joe White) (750.6 EBC) Grain 0.4 % 
35.00 gm Perle [6.00%] (60 min) Hops 11.2 IBU 
10.00 gm Magnum [13.50%] (60 min) Hops 7.2 IBU 
45.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (10 min) Hops 6.8 IBU 
30.00 gm Perle [6.00%] (10 min) Hops 3.5 IBU 
45.00 gm Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops - 
2.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
10.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs US56 (DCL Yeast #US56) Yeast-Ale 



Beer Profile 

Est Original Gravity: 1.055 SG 
Measured Original Gravity: 1.055 SG 
Est Final Gravity: 1.016 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.016 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.1 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 5.1 % 
Bitterness: 28.7 IBU Calories: 522 cal/l 
Est Color: 13.9 EBC Color: Color 


Mash Profile 

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body Total Grain Weight: 10.54 kg 
Sparge Water: 23.74 L Grain Temperature: 22.2 C 
Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C TunTemperature: 22.2 C 
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH 

Name Description Step Temp Step Time 
Mash In Add 27.49 L of water at 74.4 C 67.8 C 60 min 
Mash Out Add 15.39 L of water at 91.5 C 75.6 C 10 min


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## Ross (17/10/06)

So what was the verdict AC? Which was the preferred beer taste wise?

cheers Ross


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## Aussie Claret (17/10/06)

Personally I preferred the US56 (cos it was mine). LOL

It was one of the beers that I took to PP's when Bunyip was in town, Old dog brought his and I think it was split decision between the two some perferred mine and I think PP and OldDog pertferred the SO4.

You tasted my Golden Ale, I thought it was pretty good and would make it again.

AC


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## OLD DOG (17/10/06)

Personally Aussies was to my taste.

I found the amarillo was a lot more prominant in Aussies, more aroma and flavour using the US 56, mine is still very drinkable but it is a not as full flavoured. 

I was suprised by the difference and the guys thought they were from two different batches. It also gave Pat some ideas on how to use his spare 04 yeasts. 

looking forward to another golden ale, a great drop enjoyed by all that has tasted mine. 

cheers old dog


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## Lindsay Dive (17/10/06)

I have been making this beer for some time now and I feel that I have the colour and malt profile spot on, so, FWIW, this is what I use,

Joe White Export Pilsner 44%
Fawcetts Maris Otter 48%
Weyermann Carapils 5.4%
Joe White Crystal 140 2.2%
Joe White Chocolate 0.4%

I have placed this alongside the original Golden Ale and there is absolutely no difference in colour.
Total grain bill for 25 litres is 4.57 kgs and OG @ 1.051. My efficiency runs around the 90% mark.

Regards,
Lindsay.


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## colinw (17/10/06)

If you want to try making chalk & cheese from the one wort, try splitting an English pale ale between Nottingham & Windsor. Adrian Levi and I did that with an English pale made with Northern Brewer & EKG. My half (nottingham) was dry but malty, clean palate with quite intense woody hops character. Adrian's half (windsor) had complex esters giving a soft fruity/bready flavour, mouth filling malt presence, and an incredible floral boquet which was quite delicious. Both were superb beers, and you simply wouldn't be able to pick them as the same wort.

Regarding S04 - IMHO it does much better in malt accented pale to amber beers of moderate bitterness. I dislike the way it performs in hoppy beers, or in dark beers, but if you use it to make a moderately hopped ordinary bitter (something like Wadworth 6X), or an Irish Red, it is lovely. In particular the diacetyl it leaves behind can work beautifully with a moderate amount of roast & caramel character in a red ale.


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## James Squire (17/10/06)

Lindsay Dive said:


> I have been making this beer for some time now and I feel that I have the colour and malt profile spot on, so, FWIW, this is what I use,
> 
> Joe White Export Pilsner 44%
> Fawcetts Maris Otter 48%
> ...



Hi Lindsay,

If you don't mind me asking... what was the Hop Schedule for your beer above?

Cheers,

JS


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## Lindsay Dive (17/10/06)

JS,

Amarillo 8.4% 32 grams @ 60 min.
Amarillo 8.4% 18 grams @ 10 min.
Amarillo 8.4% 13 grams @ 1 min.
Chinook 12% 16 grams @ 1 min.
Amarillo 9.5% 25 grams @ 3 minutes after flame out.
Chinook 12% 16 grams @ 3 minutes after flame out.

Don't ask me why I chucked to hops in at three minutes after flame out....don't know. I do some weird things from time to time

Regards,
Lindsay.


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## colinw (17/10/06)

I've chucked hops in anything up to 5 minutes after, always with good results.

Gotta love that Chinook/Amarillo combination. Our best APA ever was Amarillo/Chinook - the Chinook adds a citrusy/grapefruit bite which pure Amarillo is missing.


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## James Squire (17/10/06)

Thanks Lindsay,

Thats sounds bewdiful, I'll have to give that one a go sometime.

Cheers again,

JS


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## Phrak (17/10/06)

Anyone considered using Simco hops with this recipe? I've heard some wonderful things about Simco and it's similarity to Amarillo (but better apparently) from the US guys. 
Tim.


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## colinw (17/10/06)

I reckon that would be a winner!

I have brewed a Simcoe APA after running out of Amarillo, and it was fantastic.

The champion beer at this year's BABB annual competition - Ken Wieden's APA - was also made with Simcoe. This was the beer that was brewed commercially by Brennan Fielding at Oxford 152.


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## DJR (17/10/06)

Just simcoe is a bit bland IMHO, but as a blend with B Saaz or Amarillo... :super: Recently did an APA with nothing but simcoe, was a bit lacking, i bottled it with a hop tea of B Saaz and Amarillo and it's got a very nice rounded citrus flavour.


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## Voosher (17/10/06)

Phrak said:


> Anyone considered using Simco hops with this recipe? I've heard some wonderful things about Simco and it's similarity to Amarillo (but better apparently) from the US guys.
> Tim.



Check the harvest first.

Simcoe 04 was markedly different from Simcoe 05.
Amarillo 04 was vastly different from Amarillo 05.

Simcoe 05 and Amarillo 04 were my picks. Simcoe 04 was overly piney/resiny for me but worked well with Northern Brewer to tone it down.
Amarillo 05 had nowhere near the melony/stone fruitiness of Amarillo 04.

New 2006 US harvests should be with us soon. If they don't smoke any more of them that is. :blink:


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## colinw (18/10/06)

The overwhelming impression I got from Amarillo '05 was pineapple.

In comparison, Amarillo '04 was tropical fruit punch.


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## Phrak (28/10/06)

Right, so it's on for tomorrow!

I'm going with this hop schedule, unless anyone can suggest otherwise 
16.5gms POR for 60mins
20.0gms Simcoe for 12mins
30.0gms Amarillo for 2mins
20.0gms Amarillo for 5min at flameout.

Any thoughts/comments/suggestions?

Tim.


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## Lindsay Dive (29/10/06)

Tim,
I may be a little late in answering now as you're probably we into your brew but I may as well ask, what is the alpha acid ratings of the hops you are going to use and why are you using the Pride of Ringwood?

Regards,
Lindsay.


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## Phrak (29/10/06)

Lindsay Dive said:


> Tim,
> I may be a little late in answering now as you're probably we into your brew but I may as well ask, what is the alpha acid ratings of the hops you are going to use and why are you using the Pride of Ringwood?
> Regards,
> Lindsay.


Hi Lindsay, not too late yet. Gotta wait for the wife to wake and take over the baby sittiing duties! 

The AA ratings are as follows:
Pride - 9.2%
Simcoe - 11.0%
Amarillo - 8.4%

I'm using Pride because I've got heaps of it, and it's just for bittering, no?
Tim.


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## Lindsay Dive (29/10/06)

I should have asked in the previous post so I could look at the overall IBU's of the brew.
What size is your brew?
Are you using ProMash?

Lindsay.


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## Phrak (29/10/06)

Beersmith 

```
BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com

Recipe: JS Golden Ale w/ Simcoe

Brewer: Tim

Asst Brewer: 

Style: American Pale Ale

TYPE: All Grain

Taste: (35.0) 



Recipe Specifications

--------------------------

Batch Size: 24.00 L	  

Boil Size: 30.64 L

Estimated OG: 1.057 SG

Estimated Color: 3.5 SRM

Estimated IBU: 26.6 IBU

Brewhouse Efficiency: 90.0 %

Boil Time: 90 Minutes



Ingredients:

------------

Amount		Item									  Type		 % or IBU	  

0.04 kg	   Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM)					  Adjunct	  0.8 %		 

3.00 kg	   Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) (1.Grain		60.7 %		

1.50 kg	   Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (1.8 SRGrain		30.4 %		

0.25 kg	   Munich, Light (Joe White) (9.0 SRM)	   Grain		5.1 %		 

0.15 kg	   Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)			  Grain		3.0 %		 

16.50 gm	  Pride of Ringwood 05 [9.20%]  (60 min)	Hops		 15.2 IBU	  

20.00 gm	  Simcoe 05 [11.00%]  (12 min)			  Hops		 9.3 IBU	   

30.00 gm	  Amarillo Gold 05 [8.40%]  (2 min)		 Hops		 2.1 IBU	   

20.00 gm	  Amarillo Gold 05 [8.40%]  (5 min) (Aroma HHops		  -			

5.00 gm	   Polyclar (Secondary 7.0 days)			 Misc					   

1 Pkgs		SafAle US-56 (DCL Yeast #US-56)		   Yeast-Ale				  





Mash Schedule: My Single Infusion All-In-One Mash

Total Grain Weight: 4.94 kg

----------------------------

Name			   Description						 Step Temp	 Step Time	 

Conversion		 Add 29.91 L of water at 69.8 C	  67.0 C		70 min		

MashOut			Add 0.00 L of water at 72.0 C	   72.0 C		20 min		





Notes:

------
```


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## Lindsay Dive (29/10/06)

Hi Tim,

I have just put your recipe into ProMash and I finished up with 29.4 IBU's using the Tinseth method.
When I make an APA I tend to run up to near 38 IBU's. It's what the drinkers (and I have heaps) prefer.
It would be interesting to get some other comments on this matter, however, I feel that you could up the Simcoe to about 30 grams which would bring the IBU's up to 34.5.

Regards,
Lindsay.


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## Phrak (29/10/06)

Thanks for that Lindsay, the strike water is still heating up, so there's about 2hrs till i'm adding the Simcoe hops. I'd also be interested in other peoples comments on this before I add the hops. :beer:


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## Stuster (29/10/06)

Still got time?

I'm with Lindsay. I think you could up the IBUs a bit. How about 20g Simcoe at 15, 20g Amarillo at 10,5 and 0. Should give you 35IBUs. What do you think? There are so many ways to skin a cat. :lol:


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## Phrak (29/10/06)

Stuster, thanks for the feedback. I can do that, just doing the MashOut now. Will get to boil in about 30 mins.

Have adjusted my hops to your recommendation


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## Jim_Levet (29/10/06)

I thought the JS Golden Ale was supposed to be an English style Summer Ale, not an APA !
James


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## goatherder (29/10/06)

Jim_Levet said:


> I thought the JS Golden Ale was supposed to be an English style Summer Ale, not an APA !
> James



If we are talking BCJP, I reckon the late amarillo makes it close to an APA, but probably more like a Blonde Ale. Not hoppy enough for the APA style IMHO but you could get away with it.

The English Summer Ale is mentioned in the BJCP description of the Blonde Ale BTW. That style is really broad...


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## Lindsay Dive (29/10/06)

James,
The JS Golden Ale bottle states amongst other things that they use Amarillo hops. So it's a little bit up in the air as to what they want it to be classed as.
I'm pretty sure the Poms would not be using Amarillo...but then again, maybe?
If I was given that beer to judge and was asked to put it into a category, I'm pretty sure I'd call it an APA.

Regards,
Lindsay.


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## Phrak (29/10/06)

Righto fellas, the wort has been put to no-chill bed for the night. Thanks for your help with the hops. 

I accidentally made one minor change to the hop schedule - I put the first portion of Amarillo in instead of the Simcoe. So my additions actually look like this:
16.50 gm Pride of Ringwood 05 [9.20%] (60 min) 
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold 05 [8.40%] (15 min)
20.00 gm Simcoe 05 [11.00%] (10 min)
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold 05 [8.40%]
20.00 gm Amarillo Gold 05 [8.40%] (5 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep)

Total Tinseth calculated IBUs is still 35.0 for a 90 min boil.

Can't wait to try it! 
Tim.


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## /// (29/10/06)

All I know is .....

12kg Amarilo at 50HL Whirlpool 
An Ale that Wants to drink like a lager - aka low crystal levels with perhaps MALT X and roast barley or choc to lift colour. More than 2% crystal and you'll kill it.... sweat the small stuff... sweat the small stuff ...

Low 60's for mash with suagrs in kettle on a 10-15% charge. Good attentuating Ale with a clean low ester profile. LOOOOOK at your water salts, without the right salts you'll never get the right hop roundness - cacl anyone???

And I forgot - Brew with the Passion that Rob Freshwater has in his pinkie and you'll be part the way there! Pay attention on your brewery tours ey ....

Scotty

nnlbeersupplies.com.au


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## Barry (30/10/06)

Good Day
I thought the Golden Ale was more of an American Amber Ale, so lower IBU's and more malt flavour than an APA? (my version is  )


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## Lindsay Dive (30/10/06)

Hi All,
I think this is humerous....Malt Shovel don't know what they've made. Have a read of this,
http://www.malt-shovel.com.au/golden.asp

"Often thought of", C'mon boys you can do better then that!
It appears that you can simply produce a beer that is nice to the pallet and give it a moniker!

Barry, you may well be correct! I think there is a lucrative position waiting for you at MSB.........give 'em a call.

Regards,
Lindsay.


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## colinw (30/10/06)

Malt Shovel know exactly what they are doing with the Golden Ale. Light "summer ales" quite similar to JS Golden Ale have been appearing in the UK for some time now, including some which display characteristics of US hops. Others, like Fuller's Discovery, use noble hops like Saaz.

At the Bristol Beer Festival this year, I sampled at least one very pale golden cask ale which was hopped with Amarillo. There were also a few Cascade hopped real ales around - Archers of Swindon in particular seem to be making a lot of ales using US hops varieties. I think the one I tried was from Crouch Vale.


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## Peter Wadey (31/10/06)

Scotty wrote:
"All I know is .....

12kg Amarilo at 50HL Whirlpool"

240g per hL!
With an immersion chiller, no pasteurisation and complete control over storage, I can get away with less than half of that and still get a much stronger aroma. 

Peter


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## Lindsay Dive (1/11/06)

colinw said:


> Malt Shovel know exactly what they are doing with the Golden Ale. Light "summer ales" quite similar to JS Golden Ale have been appearing in the UK for some time now, including some which display characteristics of US hops. Others, like Fuller's Discovery, use noble hops like Saaz.
> 
> At the Bristol Beer Festival this year, I sampled at least one very pale golden cask ale which was hopped with Amarillo. There were also a few Cascade hopped real ales around - Archers of Swindon in particular seem to be making a lot of ales using US hops varieties. I think the one I tried was from Crouch Vale.



Okay, Fair enough.
I'm crawling back into my box right now.

Regards,
Lindsay.

Barry, forget it about mate, Colin's already got the job.


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## jimmyjack (1/11/06)

> I thought the JS Golden Ale was supposed to be an English style Summer Ale, not an APA !




It really is closer to an american wheat as they use 30% wheat malt in their grain bill. They needed to call it an English Summer ale to keep with James Squire and the whole marketting bit they have on their bottles. They can produce what ever beer they like as long as it has a story to back it up


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