# Jw Trad Ale Vs Jw Pils



## Tim (26/4/05)

Hi All,
I am going to be doing a resupply of my grain store shortly as im down to my last few kg's of JW trad ale malt. I want to take advantage of the winter weather and get a few lagers under my belt and was considering changing my base malt from JW trad ale to JW pils. What are the main differences between these two malts?

Is the JW pils still ok to use as a base malt for porters and darker beers?

Thanks
Tim


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## Sean (26/4/05)

Tim said:


> Is the JW pils still ok to use as a base malt for porters and darker beers?
> 
> [post="56350"][/post]​


Been there, done that, no problems. I'd be amazed if you could tell the difference between JW Ale and Pilsner malts in a dark beer.


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## voota (26/4/05)

I think traditionally pilsener malt is less modified than trad. ale, this is because in the malting process they only let the acrospire grow to about 3/4 of the length of the grain (compared to a full length acrospire in ale male). I guess this brings out different flavours, anybody feel free to correct me if im wrong!!. In response to your second question, I brew an english ale with 30% pilsener malt in the grain bill, and its great, but i have no idea about the effect on dark beers.


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## Sean (26/4/05)

Traditionally European lager malts were under-modified. However, I know for a fact that most if not all English produced malts are all fully modified with pilsner malt just being more lightly roasted and I have it on good authority that the same is true for JW.


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## Dunkel_Boy (26/4/05)

Yeah, I thought the JW pils was very well modified, and you basically don't need a protein rest.
It's a tad lighter than traditional ale I guess, but there isn't that much difference.
A 100% pils lager will give you a very fluffy head and nice and clear underneath.
It's the perfect base for dunkels, schwarzbiers, and of course lagers/pilseners.


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## Gough (26/4/05)

I bought a 25kg bag of JW Export Pilsner malt and a bag of Marris Otter around Xmas or just after, and have only a couple of kgs of both left. I loved the Pils malt and concur with most things said above.

It is fully modified and brews quite pale. It is a little harder on the grain mill than the Marris Otter that seems 'softer' somehow. It seems to take an extra minute or two to run through the same weight of malt when using the Pils malt. I've had good results in a range of lager styles and also been very happy with it in lighter ale styles like Aust. and American pale ales. My Kolsch style was 95% the first time and I brewed another on the weekend using 100%. It gives a really nice malty sweetness that is not as 'assertive' for want of a better word than the MO. I've used the JW Trad Ale in the past and have also been happy with the results, so either way you can't go too wrong IMHO. If you are only buying one bag all up I'd reckon the Pils is a good choice. I haven't used it in dark ales though, so can't help you there. 

I will be buying another bag in a week or so. 

Shawn.


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## Sean (26/4/05)

Gough said:


> It is fully modified and brews quite pale. It is a little harder on the grain mill than the Marris Otter that seems 'softer' somehow. It seems to take an extra minnute or two to run through the same malt bill in terms of weight when using the Pils malt. [post="56372"][/post]​


Is that an effect of the lighter kilning of a Pilsner, though, or because the barley variety, or (as seems most likely to me) because the Otter is floor malted? (Speaking as someone who is more convinced of the benefits of traditional floor malting than the advantages of specific barley varieties - and hence a Powells enthusiast).


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## Gough (26/4/05)

My short answer is that I'm not really sure Sean. Just pointing out my experience. The two malts are very different but both good IMO. As it happens I'm planning on buying some more MO as well 'cause my HBS has it in stock and the Powell's are a bit trickier to freight to Newcastle, but I'm keen to try them as well. Have heard some good reports but yet to actually try it, or a beer made from it, unless there is a commercial variety using Powell's I'm unaware of. 

Does floor malting make for 'softer' easier cracking malt? It certainly tastes the goods...

Shawn.


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## Sean (26/4/05)

Gough said:


> My short answer is that I'm not really sure Sean. Just pointing out my experience.
> Shawn.
> [post="56375"][/post]​


I know - I was just raising the point for consideration. I've now experienced three different floor malted malts - Fawcett's (Maris Otter), Tuckers (varieties unsure - probably Regina and/or Halcyon) and Powell's and _in my opinion _the floor malting makes a bigger difference in general than the barley variety. I.e. I think the benefits of Fawcetts Maris Otter over JW Trad are at least as much to do with Fawcett's traditional floor malting as the much vaunted variety.



> The two malts are very different but both good IMO. As it happens I'm planning on buying some more MO as well 'cause my HBS has it in stock and the Powell's are a bit trickier to freight to Newcastle, but I'm keen to try them as well. Have heard some good reports but yet to actually try it, or a beer made from it, unless there is a commercial variety using Powell's I'm unaware of.


I can understand that. Since mine comes up from Grain & Grape, Powell's at $35 knocks socks off JW let alone Fawcetts. The flavour is great and I could afford the efficiency to be apalling (not that I think it is) at less than half the price of Fawcetts.



> Does floor malting make for 'softer' easier cracking malt? It certainly tastes the goods...


Dunno - I've not done my own milling before - just ordered a Barley Crusher yesterday.


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## PeterS (26/4/05)

Tim.

Like you, I am also preparing for the upcoming cooler fermenting times. You are lucky, you have a choice. Today, my finger done the walking and rang all the HBS's in Brisbane wanting a sack of Pilsner grains. Those who do sell grains either will not sell you a 25kg as they need it themselves or the ones that will sell you in bulk will not order any for some weeks yet. I tell you, it is a conspiracy. 

Anyhow, from my experiance, I like the lighter colour of the pilsner as compared to Traditional Ale, closely resembling the European Lagers. As to the important end result? I can't comment since I can't get any. The story of my life. 

Cheers.
Keep on Brewin' :beer:


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## Gough (26/4/05)

I know - I was just raising the point for consideration. I've now experienced three different floor malted malts - Fawcett's (Maris Otter), Tuckers (varieties unsure - probably Regina and/or Halcyon) and Powell's and _in my opinion _the floor malting makes a bigger difference in general than the barley variety. I.e. I think the benefits of Fawcetts Maris Otter over JW Trad are at least as much to do with Fawcett's traditional floor malting as the much vaunted variety.

[post="56385"][/post]​[/quote]

No worries Sean. Hope my post didn't come across as smart ar*ed, I'm genuinely interested in getting to the bottom of it. The only really detailed grain specific info I've got here at home is in Noonan's _New Brewing Lager Beer _where he goes into the techniques of growing and malting barley to some extent. I'll go back and check it tomorrow and see if it sheds any extra light on the subject. If so I'll post. What I do know is that there are obvious flavour differences and I choose my grain bills accordingly. As to exactly _why_, well I'm learning. You are probably right in terms of the floor malting as it is an obvious difference.

Getting back to the original question though, I'd still put in a vote for the JW Pils malt as a good one to buy, and plan to do so again myself. The bit about the extra 'hardness' of the grain is just an observation on my part having worked my way through two bags of different malts since buying my Marga mill - the Pils malt seems tougher to crack than the MO... Might just be my mill I guess but I don't think so.

I've asked my HBS to get some Powell's in and he's planning to but freight is a killer, so I doubt it'll be $35 a bag  I'm keen to try it. Despite my liking for MO I'd rather support a local. If it is good then I'lll definitely use it in the future.

Shawn :beer:


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## Tim (27/4/05)

Thanks guys, i'll probably give the JW pils a go.
Tim


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## warrenlw63 (27/4/05)

FWIW. These are the specs. (I presume to be accurate) from ProMash.

Warren -


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## PeterS (27/4/05)

Gough said:


> I've asked my HBS to get some Powell's in and he's planning to but freight is a killer, so I doubt it'll be $35 a bag  I'm keen to try it. Despite my liking for MO I'd rather support a local. If it is good then I'lll definitely use it in the future.
> 
> Shawn :beer:
> [post="56400"][/post]​



Have you checked the Country Brewers price for grains? I wonder, how much are we are willing to pay for bulk grain?


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## berto (27/4/05)

Yeah TCB prices for grain are prety high i think. Where in Sydney does everyone else buy bulk grain from and at what price?


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## Gough (27/4/05)

Peter,

I haven't seen TCB's price for grain. I'm happy with the price my HBS has been charging me,  so I guess I'm lucky. He keeps the JW malts and some Fawcett malts in bulk so I've had a choice as well which seems better than what some of you guys have had in terms of bulk malt. He obviously factors freight into his price to me, but even so it is very competitive with what I've seen from other major online shops that I'd have to pay freight on myself. No affiliation, blah, blah, blah...

The Powell's malts might eventually make their way up here, but with freight from VIC it is unlikely they'll be $35 a bag which seems an exceptional price to me, especially if the malt is as good as some are suggesting. If I could get it at that price I'd definitely try a couple. 

Shawn.


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## Doc (27/4/05)

berto said:


> Yeah TCB prices for grain are prety high i think. Where in Sydney does everyone else buy bulk grain from and at what price?
> [post="56475"][/post]​



I get my grain from Gerard (Northern Districts Brewing).
His priceing for Joe White grains can be found here

Beers,
Doc


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## Snow (28/4/05)

Gough said:


> I bought a 25kg bag of JW Export Pilsner malt and a bag of Marris Otter around Xmas or just after, and have only a couple of kgs of both left. I loved the Pils malt and concur with most things said above.
> 
> It is fully modified and brews quite pale. It is a little harder on the grain mill than the Marris Otter that seems 'softer' somehow. It seems to take an extra minute or two to run through the same weight of malt when using the Pils malt. I've had good results in a range of lager styles and also been very happy with it in lighter ale styles like Aust. and American pale ales. My Kolsch style was 95% the first time and I brewed another on the weekend using 100%. It gives a really nice malty sweetness that is not as 'assertive' for want of a better word than the MO. I've used the JW Trad Ale in the past and have also been happy with the results, so either way you can't go too wrong IMHO. If you are only buying one bag all up I'd reckon the Pils is a good choice. I haven't used it in dark ales though, so can't help you there.
> 
> ...



Shawn,

what did you pay for the MO?

Cheers - Snow


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## Gough (28/4/05)

Snow,

PM sent.

Shawn.


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## Ross (28/4/05)

Shawn, I'd be interersted in youe MO price please...


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