# Style Of The Week 19/4/10 - Roggenbier



## Stuster (19/4/10)

So this week we're looking at a style that revolves around a great ingredient - rye. There's been a fair amount of talk on the forum about rye and a bit on this style but it's always good to have more.  

Basically, it's like a dunkleweizen but with rye included.

*Links*
AHB thread
BYO
Jamil Show
All about Beer article on rye beers including Roggenbier


So what is your approach to the style? Grain bill? Hops? How to do it with kits and bits? Yeast? Fermentation temp? Drink straight away or condition how? 

Tell us all you know so we can make yummy beer. :chug: 


From BJCP.



> 15D. Roggenbier (German Rye Beer)
> 
> Aroma: Light to moderate spicy rye aroma intermingled with light to moderate weizen yeast aromatics (spicy clove and fruity esters, either banana or citrus). Light noble hops are acceptable. Can have a somewhat acidic aroma from rye and yeast. No diacetyl.
> 
> ...


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## raven19 (19/4/10)

Smurt's has brewed his Golden Ale with Rye iirc. And he is a big fan of Rye.

I also love what Rye can bring to a beer. :icon_drunk: 

I have 2kg of Rye in the shed waiting for an appropriate brew, brewery has been getting tweaked of late, with little brewing happening!

Also of note:
Crushing the Rye should be done separately on a finer crush as its a smaller grain.

Edit: speeling.


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## drsmurto (19/4/10)

First time using rye was after tasting Boilerboys American Rye IPA. So i brewed his recipe. AG #58. Can't believe i resisted for so long.

I starting using it in my golden ale instead of wheat and wont be going back to wheat!

Next up is a roggen. I brewed a dunkelweizen as an almost test batch for a roggen. Am liking it so will sub in rye instead of wheat.

Have had several PMs to Yardy about rye usage, treatment etc so i cant wait for him to pop up with his 2 c. And of course Tony Roggen thread is bookmarked!

I crush rye on a finer setting to get as much out of it as possible. I mash at 66/67 for the golden ale/IPA but will be lowering that as the % of rye increases.

This is what i am thinking for the first batch of roggenbier. Comments?

3.25 kg Rye Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 54.17 % 
2.25 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 37.50 % 
0.35 kg Caramel Rye (Weyermann) (150.0 EBC) Grain 5.83 % 
0.15 kg Chocolate Wheat (Weyermann) (817.6 EBC) Grain 2.50 % 
30.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] (60 min) Hops 13.7 IBU 
15.00 gm Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] (15 min) Hops 3.4 IBU 
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Bavarian Wheat (Wyeast Labs #3638) Yeast-Wheat 

22L
OG 1.052
IBU 17
EBC 39


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## Weizguy (20/4/10)

I have brewed the Amal Turcyn Sheppac's (sp?) recipe from Zymurgy and loved it.

Watching this thread with interest, as I have a 25 kg bag of rye malt at home.


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## yardy (3/5/10)

DrSmurto said:


> *This is what i am thinking for the first batch of roggenbier. Comments?
> 
> 3.25 kg Rye Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 54.17 %
> 2.25 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 37.50 %
> ...



missed this one until now, 

that's a nice looking recipe Doc, keen to hear how it turned out with the caramel and choc wheat B) , 17 IBU is right on the money imo.

i'm planning to brew my Schwarz next week with part of the Munich subbed for Rye, maybe only about 20% or so but it's a start  

Cheers

Dave


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## yardy (4/5/10)

some info here and here on all rye beers

cheers

Dave


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## drsmurto (4/5/10)

yardy said:


> some info here and here on all rye beers
> 
> cheers
> 
> Dave



:icon_drool2: 

I haven't even made a 50% rye beer yet and already i want to take on that challenge!

Great links Yardy.


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## yardy (4/5/10)

DrSmurto said:


> 3.25 kg Rye Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 54.17 %
> 2.25 kg Munich I (Weyermann) (14.0 EBC) Grain 37.50 %
> 0.35 kg Caramel Rye (Weyermann) (150.0 EBC) Grain 5.83 %
> 0.15 kg Chocolate Wheat (Weyermann) (817.6 EBC) Grain 2.50 %
> ...






DrSmurto said:


> :icon_drool2:
> 
> I haven't even made a 50% rye beer yet and already i want to take on that challenge!
> 
> Great links Yardy.



go for it Doc :icon_chickcheers: 

didn't you brew the above roggen ?

cheers

Dave


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## drsmurto (4/5/10)

Not yet. Kegs are full, 2 beers conditioning and a couple of lagers/kolschs to knock out while the weather is cool.

That and the fact i dont have any rye malt or weizen yeast :lol:

EDIT - spelling


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## drsmurto (15/1/11)

Finally brewing a Roggenbier tomorrow.

WLP300 starter is firing away.

3.00 kg Rye Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 55.56 % 
2.00 kg Munich II (Weyermann) (16.7 EBC) Grain 37.04 % 
0.30 kg Caramel Rye (Weyermann) (200.0 EBC) Grain 5.56 % 
0.10 kg Chocolate Wheat (Weyermann) (1100.0 EBC) Grain 1.85 % 
15.00 gm Perle [8.90 %] (60 min) Hops 16.8 IBU 
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 min) Misc 
5.00 gm Yeast Nutrient (Boil 5.0 min) Misc 
1 Pkgs Hefeweizen Ale (White Labs #WLP300) Yeast-Wheat 

20L
OG 1.051
IBU 17
EBC 41

A little unsure as to whether that is too much caramel rye. Anyone?

Not sure about the water chemistry for this one. Probably just some CaSO4 and CaCl2 to get the Ca level up to 90-100 ppm.

Doing a double decoction (52/63/70) with a decoction mashout. Rice hulls on standby but i am hoping that if i keep the sparge rate up high enough it wont get stuck. The last time i did a decoction using rice hulls (dunkelweizen) i burnt them so wont be adding any until something goes pear shaped.

Rye + decoction = :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2: :icon_drool2:


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## Effect (1/3/11)

DrSmurto said:


> Finally brewing a Roggenbier tomorrow.
> 
> WLP300 starter is firing away.
> 
> ...



Tried this one a few times. On tap directly after being kegged, at the local ABC beer presentation and also was lucky enough to get a stubbie of this one to take home. It's not often that I drink a beer that changes the way I look at beer differently. My first homebrews, those first few rogue beers from the wheaty etc and the 10 min IPAs. I can safely add this beer to the 'beers that changed my perception on beer'...it was just sooo damn good. I will be buying a sack of rye soon and will have to knock out something similar to this, as I am hooked on rye thanks to Smurto and this beer. Will also have to give a 100% rye beer a go as well...

Have to add as well, a few of the BJCP boys tried this and were hard pressed to knock 1 or 2 points off it...48/50 is pretty outstanding!

Cheers
Phil


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## jayse (1/3/11)

Yeah that roggen was a rip snorter.


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## Nevalicious (1/3/11)

It was definitely different I'll say that. Very nice, but unlike anything I've ever tasted in my life...


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## j1gsaw (1/3/11)

Wy Forbidden Fruit goes awesome in a roggen... or 100% rye.... :icon_drool2:


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## Tony (7/3/11)

mmmmmmmm about to smack a pack of FF yeast for a wit, and i have 5kg of rye just itching to gum up my mash tun 

good call!


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## Tony (17/7/11)

I have one in the mash tun now and oh dear............... :unsure: 

4kg rye
4kg dark wheat
4kg Pils
250g choc wheat.

I ran the rye through the mill 3 times to really get it fine to pull all its oily goodness and its worked very well.

Currently struggling to extract anything from a 50 liter volume mash that looks like its full of engine oil :blink: 

this is going to take hours...............


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## yardy (17/7/11)

Tony said:


> I have one in the mash tun now and oh dear............... :unsure:
> 
> 4kg rye
> 4kg dark wheat
> ...



shit mate, what were you thinking, my 2 rules for roggens are a coarse crush and sparge/lauter hot, good luck


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## Tony (17/7/11)

you know what they say........ no pain no gain, and i just cant get the texture im after from a roggen with a course crush.

This one has finnaly finnished the boil..... took me 5.5 hours to get it mashed and boiled.

Its smelling and tasting awsome now that its cooled and has that thin and dry, but oily slick feel to it in the mouth.

Now to introduce it to my good friend 3068


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## Tony (17/7/11)

The bloody thing wouldnt even come out of the kettle  

I think a Roggen is a beer ever AG brewer should make, with fine crushed rye, to experience just how much fun it is.

Its a bitch to make, but when you get it in the glass and taste it, and feel its amazing texture in the mouoth, its all worth it!


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## Tony (20/7/11)

Thank god for the blow off tube...........and a 13 liter pot to contain the boil over.

3 to 4 liters lost!


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## freezkat (20/8/11)

A word from the toddler section of the pool. In the original post they were asking about rye with kits. I have a cooper stout waiting to be made. Here's my idea. I had plain oatmeal and rye flake but thanks to the advice from you fellas, you save me from making a ruined batch

or isn't this enough rye to be in this section and I'm off topic?

I was going to steep: 
.5kg weyermann crushed malted rye and 
.5kg fawcett oat malt then go with 
1.5k can of coopers stout

Would this need additional hops? I know I need another kilo (or so) of malt or dextrose

I live on a grain farm and I have thousands of bushels of rye at my disposal. Has anybody had any success malting rye? Is it the same process as malting wheat and barley?


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## drsmurto (20/8/11)

freezkat said:


> A word from the toddler section of the pool. In the original post they were asking about rye with kits. I have a cooper stout waiting to be made. Here's my idea. I had plain oatmeal and rye flake but thanks to the advice from you fellas, you save me from making a ruined batch
> 
> or isn't this enough rye to be in this section and I'm off topic?
> 
> ...



The oats have no diastatic power so need a base malt to enable conversion. Weyermann rye malt is listed as having a diastatic power of 30 (compare that to JW Pils malt at 275) so I'm not sure the rye will be able to convert the oats. Do you have any pale or pils malt you can throw in?

As to whether you will notice 500g of rye malt in a stout, probably not but dont let that stop you. I'd personally double both the oat and the rye and add a kg of pale malt and do a mash/steep at 65C for an hour with 9L of water. Drain, and sparge/rinse with another 9L of water but you are then doing a partial and I'm not sure that's the answer you were looking for.


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## freezkat (20/8/11)

DrSmurto said:


> The oats have no diastatic power so need a base malt to enable conversion. Weyermann rye malt is listed as having a diastatic power of 30 (compare that to JW Pils malt at 275) so I'm not sure the rye will be able to convert the oats. Do you have any pale or pils malt you can throw in?
> 
> As to whether you will notice 500g of rye malt in a stout, probably not but dont let that stop you. I'd personally double both the oat and the rye and add a kg of pale malt and do a mash/steep at 65C for an hour with 9L of water. Drain, and sparge/rinse with another 9L of water but you are then doing a partial and I'm not sure that's the answer you were looking for.


If I did that I wouldn't need the dextrose or additional extract. not a bad idea..hmmmmm?

I just read that it would take at least 40% 2 row barley of the bill to convert the oats.

I do have .5k of rye flakes just sitting here. How about I throw that in instead of more oats. The rye malt is ok by itself. So then I would need a least .5kg of whatever flavor of malted barley( 1kg preferred). Correct?


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## freezkat (20/8/11)

so could I put this in a sparging bag?

1kg crystal light malt
500g Oat malt
500g Rye malt
500g Rye Flakes
9L water @ 65C


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## drsmurto (21/8/11)

freezkat said:


> so could I put this in a sparging bag?
> 
> 1kg crystal light malt
> 500g Oat malt
> ...



Replace the crystal malt with pale or pils malt and you'll be set.


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## Acasta (3/3/13)

Any thoughts on a mash schedule for one of these?
I've done a Hefe with a Ferulic acid rest, does rye require one? I will be using 'Weihenstephan Weizen' Wyeast 3068.

Otherwise I was just thinking 55/5m, 66/60m and then mashout.


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## kaiserben (22/4/15)

Acasta said:


> Any thoughts on a mash schedule for one of these?
> I've done a Hefe with a Ferulic acid rest, does rye require one? I will be using 'Weihenstephan Weizen' Wyeast 3068.
> 
> Otherwise I was just thinking 55/5m, 66/60m and then mashout.


How did you go? 

I'm going to brew a roggen this weekend and trying to suss out my mash schedule. Any advice would be appreciated. 

This is what I'm using: All grains crushed for Grainfather, except I've asked the shop to mill the rye finer - after reading this thread - as I'm a glutton for punishment and want as much out of the rye as I can get). 

51% Wey. Rye
22% Wey. Munich I
22% Wey. Bohemian Pilsner
2% Wey. Carared
2% Wey. Caramunich
1% Wey. Carafa Special II 


1.050 OG
16IBU (Tettnang @ 60 min. Maybe a small 0 min addition) 
Yeast is WL300


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