# Fridge-less fermentation chamber build



## eMPTy (25/5/15)

I am fairly new to the brewing scene and as such do not currently have a fermentation chamber. So far since the weather has cooled, I have been making do with a fermenter with thermowell wrapped in a towel. It is connected to an stc-1000 with heat belt under the house. With the temperatures dropping I am concerned the heat belt will be struggling to get up past 18-20 degrees during the day. I don't want to think about how cold it could be getting at night.

I live with my parents and unfortunately in the space I am allowed to use a fridge is really not an option at this stage. I keep trying, but no luck as yet.

I have seen a few builds on other forums where people have just made a wooden box and then insulated the inside. They have used light bulbs, mats or heat belts etc etc to keep the temperature constant in winter. Sounds great.

Only thing is, if i am going to go to that effort it seems silly to not consider how one might cool such a contraption in summer. I was wondering if anyone may have seen anything along these lines or have any ideas on how to heat and cool.

Cheers


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## NewtownClown (25/5/15)

The famous Son of Fermentation Chiller


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## benno1973 (25/5/15)

What about a bar fridge? It is essentially a small insulated box and would save you building one. If you're not allowed to put it anywhere but under the house, then it would still serve as an insulated box, even if it wasn't plugged in. I have a fridge (full size) in the shed and don't need a heat belt during winter, even on really cold nights. I just fermented an APA the other day, and even though the Perth temps were hitting 4C overnight, the fridge kept and even 17-18C. At worst you will have made an investment in a piece of brewing kit that you can use in the future?


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## eMPTy (25/5/15)

I think the issue with the first option might be size. I have quite a small doorway it would have to fit through. Not a bad option though, and I will have to have a think on it.

As for the bar fridge, they just plain and simple ruled out me using a fridge at all. Like i said, i'm still trying to convince them on that front. The folks aren't very supportive when it comes to electricity consumption. As for leaving it unplugged, again, another option. Ideally I'd like something that could fit at least two fermenters. I had thought about a bar fridge then expanding it with a wooden insulated box connected. Again, size could potentially then be an issue.

It is looking as though given all the restrictions mentioned, something may have to give.


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## superstock (25/5/15)

eMPTy said:


> I think the issue with the first option might be size. I have quite a small doorway it would have to fit through. Not a bad option though, and I will have to have a think on it.
> 
> As for the bar fridge, they just plain and simple ruled out me using a fridge at all. Like i said, i'm still trying to convince them on that front. The folks aren't very supportive when it comes to electricity consumption. As for leaving it unplugged, again, another option. Ideally I'd like something that could fit at least two fermenters. I had thought about a bar fridge then expanding it with a wooden insulated box connected. Again, size could potentially then be an issue.
> 
> It is looking as though given all the restrictions mentioned, something may have to give.


I have 2 all fridges. A 342 L that I use mainly for fermenting, and a 420 L for storeage. Recently I aquired the use of a couple of energy consumption meters and here are the results to date. Maybe you could use these figures and pay the folks a few dollars each power bill ! Both fridges have external temp controllers.
View attachment POWER CONSUMPTION.docx


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## Droopy Brew (25/5/15)

Thee you go- a +300L fridge at fermenting temps uses less than a cent per day or $3.65 per year.

Throw the olds $5 a year and let them know they are making a profit.


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## goatchop41 (25/5/15)

superstock said:


> I have 2 all fridges. A 342 L that I use mainly for fermenting, and a 420 L for storeage. Recently I aquired the use of a couple of energy consumption meters and here are the results to date. Maybe you could use these figures and pay the folks a few dollars each power bill !
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you have a custom/external temp controller on the fermenting fridge? Or do you just use the normal temp dial in it??


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## superstock (25/5/15)

goatchop41 said:


> Do you have a custom/external temp controller on the fermenting fridge? Or do you just use the normal temp dial in it??


Yes, both fridges have digital external temp controllers.


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## eMPTy (25/5/15)

superstock said:


> I have 2 all fridges. A 342 L that I use mainly for fermenting, and a 420 L for storeage. Recently I aquired the use of a couple of energy consumption meters and here are the results to date. Maybe you could use these figures and pay the folks a few dollars each power bill ! Both fridges have external temp controllers.
> 
> 
> 
> POWER CONSUMPTION.docx


That is classic. Thanks for the info. Will speak to the parents tomorrow.

It is a tough spot to be in when there are these sort of barriers. I have a Belgian dark strong fermenting at the moment, but i am worried it has stalled at 1.030 because of the temperatures at night.


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## Mr B (2/6/15)

I assume that they don't drink your beer.

If you can change that, well, that would be a game changer


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## rude (2/6/15)

Yep you must have temp control , fridge is best
I built a son of fermenter but had to freeze ice in summer so same if not more energy used
Stalling brew could be temp for sure but it could also be yeast health , pitching rates etc
Try & talk them into a bar fridge & explain the fridge hardly works at ferment temps


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## Rocker1986 (2/6/15)

Yeah, you'll find running a fridge with an external temp controller to maintain fermentation temps hardly costs anything with regard to energy bills. It would probably cost more to keep freezing bottles to put into a tub of water to keep temps down, or having a heat belt constantly running to keep the temps up.

I'm at home with the olds at the moment too, but the fridge I use was already here doing nothing; luckily Dad knows a thing or two about these types of things and actually suggested the use of the fridge with a controller rather than putting the FV in a tub of water, as it would be cheaper electricity wise. One of the best things to happen to my brewing was to start using that fridge. And as already stated, it hardly comes on during fermentation.

Hopefully you can get one too mate.


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## eMPTy (2/6/15)

I have tried explaining to the old man that the temp controller would see the fridge hardly ever in operation due to the insulation but he isn't having a bar of it. He used to trade electricity for energy australia and so fancies himself at knowing electricity prices. I will try keep chipping away.

As for my homebrew, still pretty knew to it and they've not really had a proper try of it. Hopefully they'll start to embrace it a bit more soon - they know my mates quite fancy it so far.

As for the yeast, i am wondering if maybe it was just a slight underpitching. My local didn't have any of the wyeast in stock that i was after. For now its still just sitting there. Ordered a whitelabs that is supposedly the same and waiting on it to arrive. Will pitch that into a 1L starter and put all that in the fermenter i'd imagine.


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## superstock (3/6/15)

Buying and selling bulk electricity doesn't equip a person with the knowledge as to how electrical appliances consume electricity.My fridges are in a breezeway and therefore are subjected to ambient temps. Here in Brisbane we have had a cold snap with the onite temps falling to 9' and the daytime temps around 21' as a consequence my 342 L all fridge set at 18' has not turned on for 2 days. In fact today at midday I opened the door as the onite temp had driven the internal temp down to 17.0'
Why not buy a cheap s/h all fridge (not a bar fridge, they are less efficient and limit your fermenting options) I paid $50 for each of my fridges, a digital controller and a power consumption meter and tell your oldies that you will pay for the electricity used.

P.S. Has your father checked the set temp on the house fridge? There is a substantial difference in the running costs between 2' and 5' and that fridge is operating in a warmer enviroment and having the door opened multiple times per day so costs far more to run than a fridge at ferment temps in lower ambient temps with the door opened once a day.


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## MitchD (3/6/15)

While you are negotiating why not build a plywood box under the house and insulate that? Yes its not a fridge but if you are savvy it shouldn't cost as much as a fridge either.


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## eMPTy (3/6/15)

superstock said:


> Buying and selling bulk electricity doesn't equip a person with the knowledge as to how electrical appliances consume electricity.My fridges are in a breezeway and therefore are subjected to ambient temps. Here in Brisbane we have had a cold snap with the onite temps falling to 9' and the daytime temps around 21' as a consequence my 342 L all fridge set at 18' has not turned on for 2 days. In fact today at midday I opened the door as the onite temp had driven the internal temp down to 17.0'
> Why not buy a cheap s/h all fridge (not a bar fridge, they are less efficient and limit your fermenting options) I paid $50 for each of my fridges, a digital controller and a power consumption meter and tell your oldies that you will pay for the electricity used.
> 
> P.S. Has your father checked the set temp on the house fridge? There is a substantial difference in the running costs between 2' and 5' and that fridge is operating in a warmer enviroment and having the door opened multiple times per day so costs far more to run than a fridge at ferment temps in lower ambient temps with the door opened once a day.


I know it doesn't give that knowledge, but try convincing him that it doesn't and you won't have quite such an easy time. As for fridges, that would likely then become a space issue. Easy enough to fit smaller things in the space under our house, normal fridges i'd need to fit somewhere else. Somewhere else would likely end up being the garage and I can't see him agreeing to that.

As for the difference between fridges running at say 2-5 as opposed to for fermentation at 18-22, that had occurred to me and will no doubt be something i try to push home whenever i bring it up.



MitchD said:


> While you are negotiating why not build a plywood box under the house and insulate that? Yes its not a fridge but if you are savvy it shouldn't cost as much as a fridge either.


I probably will look into that toward the end of the month regardless of anything else i do. Just have to wait for uni exams to be out of the way...


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## superstock (3/6/15)

superstock said:


> P.S. Has your father checked the set temp on the house fridge? There is a substantial difference in the running costs between 2' and 5' and that fridge is operating in a warmer enviroment and having the door opened multiple times per day so costs far more to run than a fridge at ferment temps in lower ambient temps with the door opened once a day.


You missed my point. Most people don't know what temp their fridge is set at. The difference in running cost of a fridge set at 2' is substantialy more than a fridge set at 5'. Your father could be costing himself the equivalent of running your ferment fridge if he has the house fridge set too low. A thermometer could be your friend.


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## Rocker1986 (3/6/15)

Another thing to remember too is, if you are measuring the temperature of the actual brew rather than the ambient air with the temp controller, opening the door doesn't cause the fridge to work harder to maintain the temp either because the temp of the brew doesn't change anywhere near as quickly as the air temp does.

One day I was cold crashing a batch at 0'C, opened the fridge to grab a cold bottle out, closed it again, in that 5 or 10 seconds or whatever it was, the brew temp didn't move, nor did I expect it to. In this situation I've found the fridge probably comes on about 3 or 4 times per hour for maybe 4-5 mins at a time. Even less when the beer is in the fermentation stage.

Once I'd bottled the batch, I still had a number of other bottles in the fridge, so I left the temp controller on, but just dangled the temp probe in there and measured ambient and changed its settings a bit to reflect this. Same situation, open the door for five seconds to get a beer and the temp jumped about 6 degrees. Of course, it quickly dropped again once the door was closed but nowhere near as quickly as it rose.

This is one example of how much, or rather how little fridges actually work when used as a fermenting chamber compared to a normal kitchen situation.


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## eMPTy (3/6/15)

Yeah very aware of that now. Even though I am going super low tech at the present time I have had reason to notice. Have a temp controller down there and was initially taping it to the outside of the fermenter and wrapping in a towel. On opening the door to under the house the breeze would knock the temp down very quickly. Since added a 30cm thermowell through the lid into the middle of the liquid and noticed far less temp jump.

Can definitely see how that would effect the power needs of the fridge.


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## Rocker1986 (3/6/15)

Yeah, it definitely affects it. It's one reason I measure the brew temp instead of ambient, and also - I'm fermenting beer, not air. I don't have a thermowell, I just tape my probe to the side of the FV underneath a couple of layers of packing foam. It works fine, but if you have a thermowell then by all means use it, as it would be even more accurate, and probably a bit less temperature swing as well as it is in no way at all influenced by ambient temps.

But yeah I suppose the summary of all this posting is that a fermentation fridge really costs **** all to run, and it doesn't even have to be on all the time either. Once the beer hits FG you could switch the whole operation off if you wanted to, and leave it sit in there for its cleanup phase before bottling without the fridge on. It really is the best way to achieve ultimate temperature control for fermenting beers, though.


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