# Keg Leak Troubleshooting



## Nick JD (6/3/11)

Only got 4 kegs from my 2.3kg bottle before it started heading into the redline.

So it's troubleshootin' time.

From what I've read so far, to check everything _but _the kegs - I remove the gas quick disconnects, set the low pressure dial on the reg to 100kpa, turn off the gas at the tap ... and see what happens.

If my lines and reg and bottle are okay, then I should still have the needles on the dials remaining the same after an hour? Or should the high pressure drop to zero, and the low pressure remain at 100kpa?

All my keg seals are new. But I have a feeling I might have a leak out of a blow-off valve in the lid. How can these be fixed? 

Any help would be much appreciated. Is there a systematic guide on troubleshooting keg system leaks anywhere?


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## DU99 (6/3/11)

there's soapy water around the connections looking for air bubbles..is the reg on tight..


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## Nick JD (6/3/11)

DU99 said:


> there's soapy water around the connections looking for air bubbles..is the reg on tight..




Both gauges are holding rock steady with the tank turned off and the gas disconnects disconnected, so I'm pretty confident it's not the lines of the tank/reg. Must be in the kegs...

EDIT: after watching that youtube video I'm pretty sure it's not the safety valve on the tank as it's a very new tank. Is this a common thing?


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## kelbygreen (6/3/11)

is the blow off valve new?? what kind is it? I have 2 kegs with 2 different blow off valves one is like a toggle you push up and it locks it open and the other has a ring on it you just pull and have to keep hold of it to leave it open. I got a replacement for the one with the ring but not the toggle one yet I am sure you can get them some where but I havnt really looked as it seems in good shape ATM.


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## Nick JD (6/3/11)

kelbygreen said:


> is the blow off valve new?? what kind is it? I have 2 kegs with 2 different blow off valves one is like a toggle you push up and it locks it open and the other has a ring on it you just pull and have to keep hold of it to leave it open. I got a replacement for the one with the ring but not the toggle one yet I am sure you can get them some where but I havnt really looked as it seems in good shape ATM.



It's a ring-pull blow-off valve. All my keg seals are 2 months old but the blow-off valve seals haven't been touched (not sure if you can change them?). 

I noticed just now because I thought I might as well carb up a flat keg with the remaining CO2. I forced carbed while rolling on the floor and when I sat it back up there was a little bit of beer around the blow-off valve. I just touched the ring and it foamed out a little bit. That blow-off valve is very hairtrigger, doesn't have to be pulled out to release gas, just slightly twisted.

Both gauges on the reg are still holding exactly the same - so I'm now positive it's a keg issue.


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## Ross (6/3/11)

Nick, spray or dab some soapy water around all suspect areas, the bubbles will show immediately.

If you turn off your gas bottle & both dials drop to zero over time, you have a leak - If the high pressure one drops alone (& maybe the low pressure slightly), it just means the beer is undercarbed to your pressure setting & the head pressure is absorbing into your beer.

cheers ross

Edit: re your post above - unscrew the valve & have a look at the seal - sometimes the ones with an end plug seal, the plug falls out & needs glueing back in place.


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## Nick JD (6/3/11)

Ross said:


> Edit: re your post above - unscrew the valve & have a look at the seal - sometimes the ones with an end plug seal, the plug falls out & needs glueing back in place.



Thanks, Ross. Will do. Is it the little plug on the very bottom of the valve?


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## DU99 (6/3/11)

there should be..you see it in the pic..they crack or perish..new valves are not that dear..


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## MHB (6/3/11)

Most slow leaks are the gas post O-Ring, when you push the disconnect on you make a little scratch or wear mark on the O-Ring, the gas system can test as OK, so can the keg when you join the two you have a leak.

A bit of food grade lube helps the O-Rings last a lot longer and helps prevent damage.

MHB


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## katzke (6/3/11)

I had a bad lid and it leaked out of the gas relief. The valve was OK it was the seat in the lid that was bad. I was able to fix it. Can not remember what I did. I am sure it involved some kind of polishing of the seat.

The best way to find leaks and brew good beer is use Star San. It is a great sanitizer that needs no rinsing and is very foamy so it makes a great leak detector also. It is the only thing to use on stainless kegs. One sprits and the disconnects are safe to use. A few sprits and you can check for leaks.


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## Nick JD (6/3/11)

I just did a soapy test on the suspected relief valve (should use the proper name I s'pose) and no bubbles. Nada.

Then I gave it a slight bump and HELLO all the little holes around the valve became bubble machines - and this is just with the keg's own pressure. 

I bumped it again and the bubbles died away and stopped. So the _worst _problem ever - intermittent - solved, I think. Still have to do a complete check on everything else, but I'm now pretty sure that all it's taken from the system to go from fully sealed to leaky sieve has been a bump, or using/not using the relief valve.

Cheers all. :icon_cheers:


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## DU99 (6/3/11)

order some new valves and replace them..ross might stock them or you can order from here
http://www.mybeershop.com.au/index.php?mai...;products_id=40


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## Nick JD (6/3/11)

DU99 said:


> order some new valves and replace them..ross might stock them or you can order from here
> http://www.mybeershop.com.au/index.php?mai...;products_id=40



I'll unscrew the relief valve and see if the grommet has come loose. Seems a pity to have to replace the whole valve.


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## stux (6/3/11)

Nick JD said:


> Both gauges are holding rock steady with the tank turned off and the gas disconnects disconnected, so I'm pretty confident it's not the lines of the tank/reg. Must be in the kegs...
> 
> EDIT: after watching that youtube video I'm pretty sure it's not the safety valve on the tank as it's a very new tank. Is this a common thing?



I would wait overnight before discounting a slow leak


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## mxd (6/3/11)

another thing I do is the following, if I can't find it with soapy water

N.B I have a manifold and 1 way valves on each keg.

1) turn the gas off at the manifold to all kegs.
2) turn the gas of at the reg
3) the next night check the reg, if it's dropped there's a leak before the kegs.
4) open gas on bottle and manifold.
5) turn off gas as manifold for all but 1 keg
6) turn gas off at reg
7) the next night check the reg, if dropped there's a leak to that kg (this assumes there all balanced etc), if not repeat 4 to 7 on each keg.


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## stux (6/3/11)

kelbygreen said:


> is the blow off valve new?? what kind is it? I have 2 kegs with 2 different blow off valves one is like a toggle you push up and it locks it open and the other has a ring on it you just pull and have to keep hold of it to leave it open. I got a replacement for the one with the ring but not the toggle one yet I am sure you can get them some where but I havnt really looked as it seems in good shape ATM.



You can rotate the ring 90˚ after pulling it to lock it open


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## kahlerisms (10/5/13)

HOLY THREAD RESURRECTION BATMAN

I think I have got maybe a keg out of my last two co2 bottles. I might've got 12 kegs from the one before that.

I am having a ******* frustrating time finding the leak. I have a metal manifold from the gents at Gryphon that I believe has one-way valves in each tap and I have another one way valve before the manifold

despite this I come home today to three empty kegs and a very empty c02 bottle. After a ******* long day this has done little to improve my mood - NO ******* BEER AND NO ******* GAS MAKES KAHLERISMS SOMETHING SOMETHING

I'm having to drink the second best beer in Australia out of stubbies instead of my own draught beer.
WHAT IS THIS, A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY?

Anyway, I'm frustrated and needed to vent. For some reason even though I use the soapy water trick on LPG all the time I have never done so on my keg system. The tips in this thread about disconnecting stuff and seeing if pressures drop are great, too. Will report back. I have three fermenters full of beer that need to get into kegs and I can't pressureise any of them so they're all sitting near zero for a day or a week or something until I get around to getting my CO2 bottle swapped.


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## DU99 (10/5/13)

thought of placing beer in kegs and natural carbonation method.least you can empty your fermenters


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## kahlerisms (12/5/13)

Edit: found /three/ leaks in a quick underwater test this morning. Yikes. Check your joins, gentlemen. Easy to have a leak that is inaudible.


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## of mice and gods (15/5/13)

I feel your pain.. I`m in Japan on holidays and I know my only keg of beer is in the fridge at home slowly de-pressurising.. yet the soda water keg holds pressure like a champ.

Lesson learned.. thoroughly test all new kegs before filling with beer. I`ll be doing the soapy water test and the tests as recommended by mxd when i get home.


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## klangers (16/5/17)

kahlerisms said:


> HOLY THREAD RESURRECTION BATMAN
> 
> I think I have got maybe a keg out of my last two co2 bottles. I might've got 12 kegs from the one before that.
> 
> ...



This is also how I feel at the moment. 


24 hour Pressure test on bottle and regulator - pass
24 hour pressure test on lines - all isolated at manifold - pass
Soap test on all joins; isolated at manifold - pass
Soaped 2 kegs (the only kegs I have full ATM) - found one leak in lid. Re-seated lid O ring and applied keg lube. No more bubbles - pass
Soap tested all connections - relief valve, disconnect. Pass
24 hour pressure test on disconnected disconnects - *fail.* *But no bubbles in soap test or full immersion test. WTF!!!??*
Can anyone help me as to why the hell I have a slow leak when my disconnects aren't attached, yet both water immersion and soap bubble tests say otherwise?


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## Grott (16/5/17)

mmmmm.... the disconnects and their connectors show no leaks, there is no leaks where these lines connect to manifold so it has to be the gas line (tubing) itself. A split? hole? You say disconnects as in plural therefore you need to pressure test each line on there own by turning off the others at the manifold. Then you will know which line is the bugger.


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## Dave70 (16/5/17)

After re connecting my gas line, first time after shifting house, I dumped a bottle of CO2 in three days. The o'l spray test reveled nothing - until I grabbed the tube and moved it from side to side near the barbed nipple on the reg. _Hissssss..bubble bubble.._ A teeny split that must opened up once the bottle was back in position. Cut about 20mm of the end of the tube and re connected. No worries.

I'd also suggest fitting the hose to the fittings using a little soapy water and finger strength, _not _softening it up with a lighter or hot water. Pretty sure that was the culprit in the first place.


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## goatchop41 (16/5/17)

klangers said:


> This is also how I feel at the moment.
> 
> 
> 24 hour Pressure test on bottle and regulator - pass
> ...


I had this issue (2.6kg bottle disappeared after about 3 kegs, I was disconnecting it when not using, but forgetting to turn the bottle itself off!), and it was the _inside_ of one of my disconnects that was the issue. I didn't diagnose it until I flipped the disconnect upside down (so that I could see the little sticky-out bit that seals the disconnect until it is pushed down in to the post) and half filled the inverted disconnect with star san. Pumped the reg up to 40-45 psi then, lo and behold, I see a few little bubbles start to come up from around the little thing that sticks out and pushes the poppet down!

I promptly turned off pressure, disassembled the disconnect, lubed the tiny o-rings in it and reassembled - no more leaks since!


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## Grott (17/5/17)

grott said:


> mmmmm.... the disconnects and their connectors show no leaks, there is no leaks where these lines connect to manifold so it has to be the gas line (tubing) itself. A split? hole? You say disconnects as in plural therefore you need to pressure test each line on there own by turning off the others at the manifold. Then you will know which line is the bugger.



klangers have you done the checks yet? We'd all like you to find this f*^n leak. Best of luck.


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## klangers (17/5/17)

grott said:


> klangers have you done the checks yet? We'd all like you to find this f*^n leak. Best of luck.


Haha thanks Grott.

I've completed one 24 hr pressure test on line "C". There are 7 other lines, so this will take some time


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## Grott (17/5/17)

Oh, that's a lot. If able you could speed up process as only a few hours should give you a result but if working then 2 a day? Set one up before off to work and check/set up next when you get home etc.


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## peteru (17/5/17)

A binary search algorithm will get you there much quicker than a linear search.

Turn half ON and half OFF.
Test.
If no leak, then mark the ON lines as GOOD.
Repeat the above steps on a set of unmarked lines, but each time half the number of tested lines until you get to individual ones.

Assuming you have a single leak somewhere among 8 connections, you should find the culprit in 3 test. It'll take a few more goes if you have multiple leaks.


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## klangers (18/5/17)

Clever idea, but I don't know how many leaks I have. I know it's definitely more than 1. They're very, very slow indeed. For all I know it could be a systematic issue with all the hose clamps or disconnects.


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## GalBrew (18/5/17)

I have just undergone fixing my leaking keg fridge after coming back from holidays to find the gas bottle empty. I had 3 leaking kegs, which required replacing the gas post seal. The only foolproof way of working where your leaks are (if you can't see them after spraying starsan everywhere) is to isolate one part of your system at a time, set the regulator, turn your bottle off and wait to see if the high pressure gauge drops. With a slow leak this can be an overnight wait! Took me two weeks to fix the problem, which was compounded by undercarbed kegs.


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## klangers (22/5/17)

So after doing 24 hr tests on each of my lines (minus one which has no disconnect), all but 2 have slow leaks. These all take a few hours to notice any change whatsoever. We're talking very slow indeed. Splits or pinholes would be far faster.

I have 4 SS disconnects on the way, so I'll swap in them and see what happens.

If it's not the disconnects, then I'm going to throw the whole fecking manifold in the bin and do it with Festo pneumatic components. The ball valves could even be leaking through the spindle packing, and I don't have time for that crap.


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## Grott (22/5/17)

The SS disconnects are value as they fit and seal well. I found a lot of the cheap plastic ones would often leak if any sideway pressure was applied which is very hard to detect. I suggest when you get the disconnects you replace the keg post seals as well.

I think you may being fixing your problems and all will be good.


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## klangers (28/5/17)

More results. 

So I took off a plastic disconnect and attached a barbed stainless one. I ran out of hose clamps so a press fit over the barb was holding it on.

The stainless disconnect appeared to have solved the problem as there was no HP needle movement over 24 hours. However, after 36 hours it had moved. F%^k me. Here we go again. This bloody bush league hose-barb and shitty ball valve manifold is next on my hit list. Leaks through valve stems I've seen before.

Hell, the leak's slow enough that we could even be talking diffusion through the vinyl hose.

I am going to run a parallel line which is 100% Festo pneumatic components into a SS disconnect which is pushfit >> FFL thread. If this leaks then I'll give up and resign myself to the fact that excruciatingly slow leaks are reality in a non-welded system.


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## Grott (28/5/17)

Klangers, you shouldn't be looking at the high pressure gauge, this with will change with temperature changes in the room. You should be looking at the pressure you have set in the gas lines. So if you set say 30psi and turn the tank off with gas disconnects off the kegs then if no leaks it will remain at 30psi.


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## GalBrew (28/5/17)

grott said:


> Klangers, you shouldn't be looking at the high pressure gauge, this with will change with temperature changes in the room. You should be looking at the pressure you have set in the gas lines. So if you set say 30psi and turn the tank off with gas disconnects off the kegs then if no leaks it will remain at 30psi.


That is partially true, if you set your reg to 30psi and turn the bottle off if you have no leak it will stay at 30psi. Also the high pressure gauge will fluctuate with room temp. However, If you have a very slow leak the high pressure gauge will drop off first, followed by the low pressure gauge. Depending on how slow your leak is, this could take a couple of days.


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