# Style Of The Week 16/01/2008 - Tripel/golden Strong



## Stuster (16/1/08)

So I thought we'd start the New Year of styles :lol: with a double style, BJCP styles 18C and 18D. I may well be wrong, but it seems to me that tripels and golden strongs are much too similar to be two different styles. Anyway, it's a great time of the year to be making both these beers or drinking them. Light coloured, very drinkable beers (until you fall over at least).

What malts do you use? What kind of sugar? Hops? The important yeast question? What temps for fermentation? Can you make this style with kits? Partial recipes? Which commercial examples are your favourite?

Tell us all you know so we can all make great beer. :chug: 

From BJCP.



> *18C. Belgian Tripel*
> Aroma: Complex with moderate to significant spiciness, moderate fruity esters and low alcohol and hop aromas. Generous spicy, peppery, sometimes clove-like phenols. Esters are often reminiscent of citrus fruits such as oranges, but may sometimes have a slight banana character. A low yet distinctive spicy, floral, sometimes perfumy hop character is usually found. Alcohols are soft, spicy and low in intensity. No hot alcohol or solventy aromas. The malt character is light. No diacetyl.
> 
> Appearance: Deep yellow to deep gold in color. Good clarity. Effervescent. Long-lasting, creamy, rocky, white head resulting in characteristic "Belgian lace" on the glass as it fades.
> ...


----------



## newguy (16/1/08)

Stuster said:


> I may well be wrong, but it seems to me that tripels and golden strongs are much too similar to be two different styles.



My club held a few style appreciation events last year and one of them concentrated on the strong Belgians (all commercial examples, no homebrew was sampled). From the outset, the organizer stated that they felt that we probably wouldn't be able to detect a distinct difference between tripels and golden strongs since the guidelines for both are essentially identical. We were all quite surprised to find that there was a subtle difference. Tripels, from the smell to the first rush of flavour to the mid palate, to the finish and the aftertaste all tended to change. Their flavour would change from one instant to the next. All of the golden strongs tended to have a consistent presentation. What you smelled closely approximated what you tasted and that flavour didn't change over time.

I don't know if this warrants two different categories though. If you brew one and its flavour changes, enter it as a tripel. If it's smooth and consistent, enter it as a golden strong. .......And pray that the judge evaluating it knows this.


----------



## goatherder (16/1/08)

I had a bit of success with a recipe I made a while back. The same batch has got a place at ANAWBS two years running. It was mostly pils malt with a dash of carapils and munich and about 15% Chinese yellow lump sugar with Fuggles and Saaz for hopping. Fermentation is the key to this style I reckon. I used Wyeast 1388 (Duvel) and open fermented the primary, pitching at 18 and letting it warm up to 23. Early on it was banana overload but it has since settled down to a nice complex Belgian nose, spicy and just a little boozy as it is around 9.5% abv. Another tip is to use some nice strong bottles (the 500ml euro stubbies are good) and aim for about 4 volumes of C02 to give you that huge pillowy Belgian head. Use fresh yeast at bottling to get consistent carbonation too, especially if the abv is high or the secondary ferment is a long time.

My next stab at this style will be a little different. I was inspired by the last issue of BYO so I'll be experimenting with oak. I'm planning a split batch of Strong Golden, probably using 1388 again, with some Chardonnay soaked oak chips added in secondary. One batch will be seeded with Bret from Orval dregs and the other will be seeded with Roselare from my in-progress Flanders Red. I'll leave them for 12 months and see what happens.


edit: mine grammar is badness


----------



## petesbrew (16/1/08)

I made a partial Golden Strong Ale for the Big Brew Day with the Hills Brewers. With help from Duff with the site recipe, the following was concocted.
1.5kg Morgans Extra Pale Malt Extract
2kg Pilsner Malt
1kg Wheat Malt
85g Melanoidin
0.6kg white sugar (30min)
.3kg palm sugar (10min)
40g Goldings (60min)
40g Saaz (5min)
Safbrew T-58 yeast
2 weeks in primary, 2 weeks in secondary.
8.2%
Upon bottling it smelt pretty wrong. I bottled it anyway, but for months suspected it was infected (got mixed reviews from other brewers, but most reckoned it was really good).

6 months down the track, and I'm really starting to appreciate the flavour now. Maybe cos at first I was trying to drink this by the schooner, when I should've been using those small Chimay glasses instead? 
Anyway, with each bottle it's getting tastier. I've put the remainder behind the christmas tree in storage, for enjoying this coming december!
Pete


----------



## Jazman (16/1/08)

my latest one I prefer the 1388 yeast than the 1762 as this beer was a bugger to down....

Good healthy yeast is a must lots of airation too also a lower mash temp i did to make it a bit drier to help with attentuation but this beer turned out good may psot a pic when i get to taking a pic


Ps i uded 1 kg of dex and about 250 raw sugar as that was all i had but raw sugar would be fine instead of cane sugar
Evil Golden Strong ale

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 24.00 Wort Size (L): 24.00
Total Grain (kg): 7.50
Anticipated OG: 1.08228 Plato: 19.842
Anticipated EBC: 7.7
Anticipated IBU: 31.0
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 0 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
73.3 5.50 kg. Weyermann Pilsner Germany 317.420 4
16.7 1.25 kg. Cane Sugar Generic 386.000 0
6.7 0.50 kg. JWM Wheat Malt Australia 334.126 4
3.3 0.25 kg. Weyermann Vienna Germany 317.420 7

Potential represented as IOB- HWE ( L / kg ).


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
30.00 g. Styrian Goldings NZ Pellet 5.70 20.2 60 min.
15.00 g. Nelson Sauvin Pellet 12.70 7.6 20 min.
20.00 g. Saaz B Pellet 7.00 3.3 10 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 1762 Belgian Abbey II


----------



## Thirsty Boy (17/1/08)

I love the Piratt ... which has a lovely brett character as well as the usual Belgian golden strong stuff. I think that Goatherder's Orval dregs will work beautifully.

I'm currently fermenting the beer we brewed at the Victorian case swap get together (added some sugar), with nothing but a starter I grew up from Orval dregs. Its only 2L, so if its great it will be precious and if its bad it will be no loss.

For mine - Trippels have a bit more body and are bitterer. Strong goldens are _bone_ dry falling down juice.


----------



## neonmeate (17/1/08)

piraat has brett? where did you find that out?


----------



## Duff (15/5/08)

This one hit the tap last night and is fantastic. Real simple and the 1388 fermented up to a top of 24C. I made it for the Qld July Swap but I don't think it is going to last that long.


08-19 Golden Strong

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 40.00 Wort Size (L): 40.00
Total Grain (kg): 10.75
Anticipated OG: 1.069 Plato: 16.91
Anticipated SRM: 3.1
Anticipated IBU: 31.9
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
82.8 8.90 kg. JWM Export Pilsner Australia 1.037 2
17.2 1.85 kg. Cane Sugar Generic 1.046 0

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
60.00 g. Styrian Goldings Pellet 8.00 26.9 60 min.
60.00 g. Czech Saaz Pellet 2.50 5.1 20 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 1388 Belgian Strong Ale


----------



## nifty (6/2/10)

Hi all, I've got a question about about priming that I hope someone can answer.

I've got a golden strong in the fridge cc'ing at the moment and was wondering about the priming rates for this type of beer. There is 32 litres at about 2 deg. 

It started at 1.071 and finished at 1.010 in 2 weeks at about 21 to 23 degrees over that period.

The yeast used was WY1388 and reading from their website it says "May continue to produce CO2 for an extended period after packaging or collection, while in refrigerated storage"

If this beer is to be kept for a while, should I be under priming and if so, what would you recommend to be a suitable rate?

Thanks

nifty


----------



## nifty (7/2/10)

Bump, 

Can anyone me out ??

cheers

nifty


----------



## Stuster (7/2/10)

I've done a few beers with this yeast and just priming as normal worked fine for me. With that kind of beer, I'd carb fairly high, 3vols or so. Make sure you're not using really thin walled bottles if you do that but normal bottles should be ok. I'd just use a priming rate calculator (Beersmith etc). It depends on the temp rather than the FG.


----------



## nifty (7/2/10)

Stuster said:


> I've done a few beers with this yeast and just priming as normal worked fine for me. With that kind of beer, I'd carb fairly high, 3vols or so. Make sure you're not using really thin walled bottles if you do that but normal bottles should be ok. I'd just use a priming rate calculator (Beersmith etc). It depends on the temp rather than the FG.




Ok, thanks..


----------



## Effect (26/6/10)

I made a simple golden strong about a year ago. Simple recipe, pilsner, carapils and sugar. Bittered with EKG and fermented with 1388...it didn't turn out too well however, didn't have good temp control and underpitched quite a bit.

So now to resurrect my urges to brew belgian beers, I have made up this recipe, and hopefully it goes alright. If there is something that you would change, please let me know.

Cheers
Phil

5.40 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 65.0 % 
2.49 kg Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 30.0 % 
35.00 gm Northern Brewer [8.50%] (60 min) Hops 25.4 IBU 
23.00 gm Saaz [3.60%] (15 min) Hops 3.5 IBU 
0.42 kg Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 5.0 % 
1 Pkgs Trappist High Gravity (Wyeast Labs #3787) Yeast-Wheat 

OG 1.080
IBU 28.9

Mash at 65.


----------



## hoohaaman (26/6/10)

Phillip said:


> I made a simple golden strong about a year ago. Simple recipe, pilsner, carapils and sugar. Bittered with EKG and fermented with 1388...it didn't turn out too well however, didn't have good temp control and underpitched quite a bit.
> 
> So now to resurrect my urges to brew belgian beers, I have made up this recipe, and hopefully it goes alright. If there is something that you would change, please let me know.
> 
> ...




I reckon you will be happier with the above recipe and the resultant beer.

But I'd go back and try and get the golden strong correct.
Golden Strong thoughts
Forget the carapils/carafoam.Good grade pilsner malt and sugar only.Styrian goldings @90mins and [email protected] to 32IBU.
Pitch a massive starter of 1388 @ 17-18c allow to rise to 28c over 7 days.Feed sugar in increments once initial fermentation slows.

Either crash chill,carb and CC for 2 weeks.Or CC for a month


----------



## mje1980 (26/6/10)

Is there a "process" for adding the sugar post fermentation?? Does any sugar go into the boil?? Anyone used 3944 for a tripel??. Water adjustments? Mash temp??


----------



## mje1980 (6/8/10)

My first one!!

83.3% Jw pils
5.6% Wheat
11.1% Sugaz

1.076

25 IBU

WLP 530 Abbey ale 

Calc'd it should come down to 1.012, and 8.5%. 

I have just dumped it onto the whole yeast cake ( save for a few slurry samples ) of a 4.6% Belgian pale ale, which was a very similar grain bill, only scaled down in gravity. Im quietly scared tomorrow morning it'll be climbing out of the fermentor, though the sugar ( 800g ) hasn't gone in yet, and will go in at the end of primary fermentation.


----------



## Muggus (6/8/10)

Just starting to try the first bottles of my first attempt at this style. Pretty happy with it...

GFC Celebratory Grand Cru
4.2kg Weyermann Premium Pils 
1.5kg Weyermann Vienna Malt 5
1.0kg Flaked Maize 
0.6kg JW Pilsner ...it was lying around for a bit
1.0kg Raw sugar

Mashed at 65C for 90 min

90min - 28g Brewers Gold Ger (T90) 5.0%AA
10min - 25g Saaz Czech (T90) 3.5%AA
Whirlfloc Tablet

1.0L starter - Wyeast 3463 Forbidden Fruit

Fermented at 18-22 degrees for 3 weeks

24.0L batch
OG: 1.086
FG: 1.012
IBU: 24
Abv: 9.8%

Notes:
- Sugar added after 3 days fermentation
- I _may_ have added a whole bottle of port before bottling
- Tempted to do some Mthod Champenoise-style disgorgement on a couple of bottles to remove yeast lees


----------



## mje1980 (8/8/10)

*I may have added a whole bottle of port before bottling*

!!!!!, intense flavours there for sure haha. Keep us updated. 


I just added my 800g sugaz. Its the 3rd day, and its at 1.030, but only 16-18c, so i boiled 800ml water, dissolved the sugaz, then tipped into the fermentor. Brought the temp up to 20-22. I had to clean up the escaping yeast this morning, even though i have 10'' of head space, so im 50/50 excited and scared at what will happen next.

The aroma of the ferment is delicious.

On a side note, the 4.6% Koelsh style ale i made for the starter beer for this tripel is a little plain. Nice, and belgiany, but no major funky belgian flavours. Not sure if its because it only fermented at 16-18c, or because the belgian yeast ( Wl 530 ) needs high alc/high temp to throw off the funky belgian flavours. IMHO, i'd rather be on the safe side though, and have a "subtle" belgian, than ferment waaaay high and end up with hot alcohol i suppose. 

Will update.


----------



## barls (8/8/10)

Muggus said:


> - I _may_ have added a whole bottle of port before bottling


damn muggus save me a bottle and ill do you a swap for one of my funky beers


----------



## mje1980 (8/8/10)

Already starting to climb


----------



## Muggus (8/8/10)

barls said:


> damn muggus save me a bottle and ill do you a swap for one of my funky beers


Haha sure thing mate.
The port bumped it up to around 11%, so it's got a nice boozy kick.
I should have some leftover by the time of the next case swap.


----------



## mje1980 (10/8/10)

Note to self, next time i brew a big belgian, do it somewhere that can be hosed down daily. 

This yeast ( wl 530 ) throws foam likes its going out of style, bloody hell!

Been at 1.030 for 24 hours now, but the temp keeos dropping to 16 overnight. Once i warm it up and swirl it often it kicks back in. Hope i dont have to clean it up again tomorrow morning!. Might push it up to 24c to keep it going in the final stages. 

Anyone recommend adding more slurry from the previous belgian ale ( 4.6% blonde ) ?????????????????


----------



## Stuster (10/8/10)

That yeast certainly likes to make a mess doesn't it. Just not happy to stay in that fermenter, it wants to crawl on out. It definitely needs to keep warm or it can slow down to crawling speed at the end. I think that warming it up is a great idea, otherwise it can just tick along for weeks. As long as it's warm there should be no need to add more yeast.


----------



## mje1980 (10/8/10)

Thanks mate!.


----------



## Swinging Beef (10/8/10)

I dont think adding more yeast will help anything, but raising the temps during the ferment is meant to be the go.
Ive not had temp control before, and Im loving it.
Pitched my Tripple on Saturday morning, and wound it up to 18 degrees for a day.
Now I have it at 21, and it is like a bubble bath.
Will hoik in the sugar tomorrow night probably and let that go for a few days at 22.


----------



## mje1980 (12/8/10)

Raised it up to 24c for the last day and a half, and its around 1.016. 

How low should it go?? Im expecting 1.010 ( calc'd ) ,but i have never done a tripel.


----------



## mje1980 (13/8/10)

1.010!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. More importantly, it tastes pretty good so far. I mean you can tell its a big beer, but it doesnt have the "solvent" flavour. Its got spice, and almost black pepper notes. 

Will bottle soon.


----------



## Stuster (13/8/10)

I'd certainly leave it another few days. No need to rush it and better to avoid overcarbed beer. It could still go lower. Saying that though, the two tripels I've done both finished at 1010 - one did start at 1086 though.


----------



## mje1980 (14/8/10)

Stuster, i have noticed with the pale ale i brewed with it, it seems to smooth out over a week or two. At first, it was a little harsh/peppery, but now, a week and a half later it seems much smoother, and bloody nice. Have you noticed the same??

Im used to bitters, so dont let the beers condition haha.


----------



## Stuster (14/8/10)

Yep, I think it takes a little time with that yeast. The beers do improve with a bit of time. I'm also not one for waiting too long - just straight in to it with bitters and APAs. Some Belgians are fine fresh, but the high alcohol ones definitely need age to be at their best.


----------



## mje1980 (16/8/10)

Thanks stuster. Im cleaning up some grolsch bottles now. Its down to 1.008, and looks pretty much stopped. Can't wait to give this a go. I'll try one in a month, but i'll aim to leave it 3 months. Try...


----------



## bcp (16/8/10)

I have a duvel clone in the fermenter now for the last 5 days with WY1314. The temp hasn't risen above 19 - maybe the room's too cold - so i'm artificially lifting it now to above 20, and plan to raise it every few hours until i get to about 24-25. I've read some suggestions that the 26c at moortgat works better in larger batches, and maybe not go so high. 

It's down from 1.059 to 1.020, and i haven't added any sugar yet. Planning to add about 20g/day sugar starting later today... or should I wait until it comes down a little more?

Appreciate any comments on my thinking.


----------



## Stuster (16/8/10)

bcp, I think raising it that high should be fine in the later stages of fermentation. Most of the flavours will come in the initial growth phase. I guess you could add the sugar like that but it sounds like a lot of work. If you are adding 1kg of sugar, that's 20 days of sugar additions. :lol: 

Personally, I'd bung the sugar in now. If you are not sure, at least add half now and half in a few days time. Should be close enough to finished now.


----------



## bcp (16/8/10)

Stuster said:


> bcp, I think raising it that high should be fine in the later stages of fermentation. Most of the flavours will come in the initial growth phase. I guess you could add the sugar like that but it sounds like a lot of work. If you are adding 1kg of sugar, that's 20 days of sugar additions. :lol:
> 
> Personally, I'd bung the sugar in now. If you are not sure, at least add half now and half in a few days time. Should be close enough to finished now.




20g... 200g... ok, slight difference there. :blink: 

Thanks.


----------



## mje1980 (17/8/10)

bcp, mine is my first so just my.o2c. When i added my 800g, it raised temp up 4c from 18 to 22. Worked great! i boiled 800ml water, added sugar, and when dissolved whacked it in after 2 mins "cooling" time haha.


----------



## MitchDudarko (17/8/10)

Whats the general consensus as far as serving temps for a tripel?


----------



## bcp (17/8/10)

MitchDudarko said:


> Whats the general consensus as far as serving temps for a tripel?



Michael Jackson - though not 'consensus' is an opinion always worth considering:
"Beer writer Michael Jackson proposed a five-level scale for serving temperatures: well chilled (7 C/45 F) for "light" beers (pale lagers); chilled (8 C/46 F) for Berliner Weisse and other wheat beers; lightly chilled (9 C/48 F) for all dark lagers, altbier and German wheat beers; cellar temperature (13 C/55 F) for regular British ale, stout and most Belgian specialities; and room temperature (15.5 C/59.9 F) for strong dark ales (especially trappist beer) and barley wine."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer#Serving_temperature


----------



## MitchDudarko (17/8/10)

Cheers for that!


----------



## bcp (17/8/10)

Man, from 1.020, added 500g of sucrose last night in my duvel clone (back up to 1.026) and it ate it all in 24 hours (down to 1.016). Never used sucrose before - yeast have a sweet tooth. I let the temp get up to 23.4 and there's a slight nailpolish taste - hoping that mellows a little with aging(?) Another 500g sugar tonight and that'll do i think. I notice moortgat 'lager' theirs. I'll cold condition,but i can't imagine this yeast will do much at that temperature...?

So far these belgians seem like having a wild brumby in the yard - much less predictable - but interesting because of it.


----------



## manticle (2/9/10)

Devloping a recipe for an attempt at duvel.

Using mainly suggestions from BLAM, plus a few ideas from here and other places I'm going with:

85% pilsner (I have a bag of Joe white but am thinking of blending dingemans and weyermans as well)
15% dextrose (5 % to kettle and remaining 10 in two lots post primary)
Saaz and styrian Goldings to 20ish IBU bittering addition, another 10 IBU between 20 and 10 mintes.

90 minute boil
Three step mash - start 63, ramp 68, push 72 then mash out. I may decoct one of these steps just for a laugh.

1388 yeast, ferment lowish (17-18) for the first few days, allow to rise to 25 after at least 3 days. Cold condition 1-2 weeks.

I haven't had what I consider great success with belgian beers so hopefully I can knock that on the head with this one.


----------



## Stuster (2/9/10)

Looks good, manticle. Don't rush that ferment though. Extra time there is not really a problem (except those like me with ADHD) and I think is crucial.


----------



## manticle (2/9/10)

I am bad with ageing beer once bottled but very patient with it in ferment. Happy to keep ferment low the whole time if it gives a better result - just basing my schedule around readings of what they do at the brewery. I'd prefer this one not to come out overladen with phenolics - more subtle background.


----------



## Stuster (2/9/10)

No I think that raising the temp sounds like a very good idea. Just wasn't sure of the timings.


----------



## felten (2/9/10)

Have you listened to the Jamil show golden strong episode? they have some good tips


----------



## manticle (2/9/10)

Again basing it on reading so any suggestions welcome. BLAM says 120 hours for primary ferment, starting at 16-18 and pushing to 25-29. 29 is too high for me so 25 would be my max point. No indication of what timing for the actual steps except that high krausen coincides with around 22 degrees.

I know BLAM isn't the only reference for all things Belgian so I'm very interested to know other brewers' successful, recommended schedules with this yeast.


----------



## manticle (5/9/10)

Just saw your reply felten - no haven't listened to that. Might see if I can dig it up.

cheers too to Stuster for your comments.


----------



## Hutch (6/9/10)

Nice recipe Manticle - a simple grain-bill I think is key to a good Belgian Strong/Tripel.

A few bits of advice I can give (based on WYeast 3787 FWIW)...

Pitch BIG, and aerate well - 3 to 5 Ltr starter. Treat it like you would treat a lager - yeast health is crucial to get through all that sugar without excessive production of fusils
Any dextrose/candi sugar should be added after majority primary fermenation complete (after 4-5 days). No point over-stressing the yeast with extra sugar in the boil.
Start fermentation lowish (18-20deg), and raise progressively over a few days (23-25degrees).
LONG conditioning period, slowly reducing temperature (not crash-chilling) to avoid shocking the yeast into hibernation.


----------



## manticle (6/9/10)

Cheers for that. Having tried your tripel and finding no unpleasant flavours, I will do as you suggest.


----------



## mje1980 (23/9/10)

Hey guys, a few questions. 

Im drinking my first tripel now, and while im very happy with it, im keen to know a few things.

1.) Bitterness. I went 25 IBU in a 1.076 tripel. It seems a little low on bitterness, almost sweet, what do you guys normally go??

2.) Carbo. I went with4g/litre, which is my usual bitter carbo. I know its less than a tripel should be, but i rarely bottle and hate the idea of bottle bombs, should i go higher next time??

Pretty happy with my first attempt, though next time i might try the ardennes yeast, or add a touch of biccie malt.


----------



## manticle (23/9/10)

Hi MJE. Not that I've brewed a million happy tripels but my recent attempt (OK could do with some improvement) aimed for mid to high 30s. My benchmark is westmalle and that sits around 39 from memory. I think the alc and malt in a tripel need balancing with some extra IBU.


----------



## mje1980 (23/9/10)

manticle said:


> Hi MJE. Not that I've brewed a million happy tripels but when my recent attempt (OK could do with some improvement) aimed for mid to high 30s. My benchmark is westmalle and that sits around 39 from memory. I think the alc and malt need balancng with some extra IBU.




Thanks mate. I'll up it next time. Do you add any other spec malts other than wheat??. I just went pils, sugaz, and wheat.


----------



## manticle (23/9/10)

Pils, biscuit and sugar for me although next time I'd up the malt and lower the sugar level a bit. 

The biscuit is almost an automatic addition for me in most brews - only one ocassion it hasn't worked (aussie bitter with rice that had other problems)


----------



## Mobbee007 (23/9/10)

Hi MJE,
My 1st tripel I was happy with had pils,wheat,biscuit & some melanoidin EKG to 35 IBu and Ardennes yeast then 0.5 kg sugar after 3 days turned out bloody nice ( I think!!). I can sling you some Ardenne yeast if you're keen ( longy of sludge not the best storage method but should do) or a stubbie and you can taste it and see what you reckon?


----------



## MattC (23/9/10)

Just brewed my first tripel using Wyeast 3787. OG of 1078, pitched at 18 C and allowed to slowly rise to 22 over a week. added 1.5 kg of sugar after a week and a half. Then allowed to raise to 25 C max. Let sit for another week. Finished at 1006, 92% A.Attenuation. WOW

Used Pils, wheat, aromatic and vienna malt. Bittered with Perle and a 10 min addition of styrian.

Got a keg and 18 small stubbies (which I bulk primed) out of it. Polyclar, gelatine and filtered the keg, it is BRIGHT!

Now comes the hard part, trying to leave it long enough to smooth out a bit. Im going camping on sat for a week, so that will help a bit!!

Cheers


----------



## mje1980 (24/9/10)

RexBanner said:


> Hi MJE,
> My 1st tripel I was happy with had pils,wheat,biscuit & some melanoidin EKG to 35 IBu and Ardennes yeast then 0.5 kg sugar after 3 days turned out bloody nice ( I think!!). I can sling you some Ardenne yeast if you're keen ( longy of sludge not the best storage method but should do) or a stubbie and you can taste it and see what you reckon?




Cheers mate, that'd be cool, i can swap you for some WLP 530 Abbey ale slurry??. If you let me know when you're planning to pick up bulk by grain ( when it arrives ) i can meet you there, kill 2 birds with one stone hehe.

Biscuit is my fave spec malt ever, its definately going in the next one.

Mine has definately smoothed out. Glad i have some more bottles left!!


----------



## black_labb (30/9/10)

I've got a tripel (or golden ale maybe) in the fermentor. 

*tripel*


*Recipe Specs*
----------------
Batch Size (L): 23.0
Total Grain (kg): 7.800
Total Hops (g): 66.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.075 (P): 18.2
Colour (SRM): 4.7 (EBC): 9.3
Bitterness (IBU): 35.8 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 65
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

*Grain Bill*
----------------
5.700 kg Pilsner (73.08%)
1.000 kg Pale Ale Malt (12.82%)
0.800 kg Cane Sugar (10.26%) >> to be added incrementally as the fermentation slows
0.300 kg Munich I (3.85%)

*Hop Bill*
----------------
18.0 g East Kent Golding Pellet (4.7% Alpha) @ 70 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
28.0 g Perle Pellet (7% Alpha) @ 70 Minutes (Boil) (1.2 g/L)
10.0 g Hallertau Aroma Pellet (8.1% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
10.0 g Tettnanger Pellet (5.5% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)

*Misc Bill*
----------------

Single step Infusion at 67C for 180 Minutes.
Fermented at 20C with 




I put about 18-20L of 1073sg wort in the cube, but I had collected extra wort from the last sparge which I boiled separately to step up the yeast. so overall I had ~19L of 1073 and 4L of 1035 and I will be adding the 800g of cane sugar ( will probably make it into homemade candy sugar before adding). not sure what the initial gravity is meant to be with the calculations but it should in the right range for a tripel. 

the ferment is looking nice and healthy and kicked off quite quickly. I cultured up some chimay yeast and pitched it to a belgian pale, and then top cropped that for this tripel. 

just thought I'd post this as i'm getting pretty excited, but I have a feeling I'll have to wait a while to taste it. Hopefully the pale will keep me occupied while the tripel can age.


----------



## manticle (2/11/10)

Just bottled my duvel clone today. Most promising, least phenolic/hot alc belgian I've so far produced (although I have hopes for an ageing dubbel with 1388).


----------



## Dazza_devil (2/11/10)

manticle said:


> Just bottled my duvel clone today. Most promising, least phenolic/hot alc belgian I've so far produced (although I have hopes for an ageing dubbel with 1388).




Duvel would have to be one of the nicest beers I've tried.
I'll be attempting a clone down the track and interested in your recipe and how this turns out.


----------



## argon (2/11/10)

Boagsy said:


> Duvel would have to be one of the nicest beers I've tried.
> I'll be attempting a clone down the track and interested in your recipe and how this turns out.




+1 i need another belgian soon... Duvel clone sounds good :icon_drool2:


----------



## manticle (12/11/10)

Boagsy said:


> Duvel would have to be one of the nicest beers I've tried.
> I'll be attempting a clone down the track and interested in your recipe and how this turns out.



I'm going to need some other beer drinker/brewer's opinions on it but this has been in the bottle a few weeks and is clear and nicely carbed. First few bottles suggested a little bit of aging was needed and I reckon this will improve with time. However cracked one today and the flavours have integrated a lot more. Warm alc has settled a bit, hints of bubblegum, sweetness but with a dry finish. Not phenolic or out of balance as most of my attempts at belgian styles have been.

I need to buy a duvel to compare (bet they're loads different) but my corner shop has been unable to get it in for a while.

I think the recipe is a good one - didn't do any ramping of temps although as people may know my temp control does not at this point involve fridges or tempmates - it involves me either brewing at the right time of year or using cold water baths/dressing gowns as needed. Works well most of the time but I'm aiming to change it with either a home built fermentation cupboard or the addition of a small fridge for hops and yeast storage (freeing up my current brew fridge for fermentation).

Got a bit of a kick to this one too.


----------



## black_labb (13/11/10)

Just opened the first bottle of my tripel just 3 weeks after bottling (I really wanted to wait atleast 1.5 months, but i am only human.
In terms of looks it is quite clear and has a nicel golden colour. There is carbonation but the head doesnt last. I dont know if I should expect it to improve much as it finished at 1009 and is around 9.5%, but at the moment it doesnt last very well.
First impressions was that it tastes very similar to the belgian pale that I fermented using the same chimay yeast. The next few sips presented a bit of spicy phenols and a bit of stone fruit flavour. 
As i let it warm up towards room temp you start to get a bit of a hot alcohol taste.

I'll wait another few weeks before I open the next one. I think this should be a pretty good tripel once aged for a bit, though I'm a bit concerned that the head retention may be a bit lacking, though thats not a big issue for a first attempt.

Recipe is posted a few posts above


----------



## hoohaaman (13/11/10)

Don't forget 3-4 weeks of lagering,the colder the better,improves head foam layer and really rounds out the flavours in your golden strongs.

In my experience 1388 or whitelab alternative is the only way to fly with this beast.I have extensively used both 1214 and 1388 and would never try 1214 to replicate a golden strong,but thats just my personal tatses.

Both styles use very simple grain bills with temperature and yeast setting them apart.There is complexity to the Tripel that stands it apart to the moreish lager character of a golden strong.I think the problem most brewers have with tripel/golden strongs is they over complicate the grain bill,instead of letting yeast and temperature shine.

Try a side by side with a Duvel and Westmalle Tripel,I think they are more then subtly different.

Just my 2c.


----------



## black_labb (13/11/10)

hoohaaman said:


> Don't forget 3-4 weeks of lagering,the colder the better,improves head foam layer and really rounds out the flavours in your golden strongs.
> 
> In my experience 1388 or whitelab alternative is the only way to fly with this beast.I have extensively used both 1214 and 1388 and would never try 1214 to replicate a golden strong,but thats just my personal tatses.
> 
> ...




I went back and poured a second glass and the head magically appeared. I've noticed that often when a beer hasnt been refrigerated for long the first pour doesnt produce much head at all, but the second one will. I dont understand why as its been opened and some co2 has excaped. I put it back into the fridge so its not a temp change either. 

I'm more confident about it now. 

I dont have the facilities for lagering at the moment as I dont have enough room. Long cellar time should do the same thing as lagering but take longer. 

Regarding the yeast I find that the phenols are pretty well in balance with this beer. the belgian pale I did has a bit much of the phenols, though that may mellow. I pitched a fair starter and stepped up the volume so the yeast shouldnt have been too stressed. it was fermented around 18* until I turned the heat belt on towards the end. 
Thanks for the tips


----------



## cubbie (12/1/11)

Is a bag of sugar sanitary enough to add directly to the fermenter or should it be boiled with a small amount of water. Normally I would boil, however at the moment I am living and brewing in one place and fermenting in another (due to reno's). I go past my house daily to check the reno's and the fermenter and today I would like to add some sugar, if not I will go home boil some sugar and drop past the house on the way to work tomorrow. My preference is the former, but what is the likelihood the sugar will carry some contaminants?

Dam builders turned the power off yesterday so my triple got a little warmer than what I wanted on day 3 of the ferment.


----------



## raven19 (12/1/11)

Sugar is very stable in its store bought form - iirc the dogfish ipa podcast on the Brewing Network discussed sugar and is it ok to pitch 'as is'. The consensus was it is fine, as sugar in your/my kitchen cupboard lasts forever with no issues.

My current Tripels are fine and sampling well after adding the multiple 200gm additions to the fermentor poured straight in.


----------



## raven19 (21/2/11)

Sampling my Belgian Tripel. This is the batch fermented with 1318 Belgian Strong Ale yeast.





Minimal head that dissipates quickly, but a good peppery, spicy, alcoholic warmth, with some faint orange aroma.

1072 OG down to 1011, 8.1% alc abv.


----------



## raven19 (21/2/11)

And the recipe:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 24.00 L 
Boil Size: 36.84 L
Estimated OG: 1.073 SG
Estimated Color: 13.0 EBC
Estimated IBU: 22.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 56.00 %
Boil Time: 120 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU 
8.00 kg Pilsner (5.9 EBC) Grain 86.96 % 
21.00 gm Saaz [3.60 %] (120 min) (First WortHops 8.4 IBU 
36.00 gm Saaz [4.30 %] (60 min) Hops 14.4 IBU 
0.50 tsp DAP (Diammonium phosphate) (Boil 15.0 min)Misc 
0.50 items Whirlfloc (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
0.80 kg Sugar, Table (Sucrose) - split and add durSugar 8.70 % 
0.40 kg Sugar, Table (Sucrose) - boil (2.0 EBC) Sugar 4.35 % 
1 Pkgs  1388 Belgian Strong Ale (Wyeast #1388) Yeast-Ale 


Mash Schedule: Raven's RIMS
Total Grain Weight: 8.00 kg
----------------------------
Raven's RIMS
Step Time Name Description Step Temp 
10 min Protein Rest Add 24.00 L of water at 59.1 C 55.0 C 
40 min Mash 1 Heat to 62.5 C over 15 min 62.5 C 
10 min Mash Out Add 0.00 L of water at 78.0 C 78.0 C 


Notes:
------
xx.11.10 Brewed & Cubed - only used 400gms sugar in boil (15 Brix OG = 1060, Aim was for 1065)
14.12.10 Prepare yeast starters
21.12.10 Split batch, 12L into 2 fermentors, OG 15 Brix - yeasts 3522 & 1388 (Split batch into halfs. One with Belgian Strong 1388 (2yr old smack pack), One 3522 stepped up from slant). Fridge set to 20.
27.12.10 Add 200gms sugar to each half batch and increased temp to 21.5 deg.
04.11.11 Add further 200gms sugar (100 white, 100 raw) to each half batch and swirl fermentors.
10.01.11 Bottled 1388 Batch.
2.7vols = 7gms/L, 0.5 tsp sugar


----------



## mika (21/2/11)

hoohaaman said:


> .....
> In my experience 1388 or whitelab alternative is the only way to fly with this beast.I have extensively used both 1214 and 1388 and would never try 1214 to replicate a golden strong,but thats just my personal tatses.
> .....



Please explain ?
Not done a heap of Belgains, but have been very happy with the way 1214 performs/tastes in the 'darker' styles. Why not for a Golden strong or similar ?


----------



## winkle (22/4/11)

Its about time to brew a trippel of two, now I've curently got a dubbel doing its second stage ferment using W1762 (which is preforming to specs nicely). I'm considering using it instead of W3522 in the next trippel.
Anyone given it a go in a trippel?


----------



## raven19 (22/4/11)

Winkle, I split my tripel over 1388 & 3522, however the 3522 was stepped up from a slant and ended up picking up a slight infection, to the beers detriment. Initial tastings before the off flavours took hold were promising. I should have pushed the temps higher also, but was worried about excessive esters (my Bier de Garde with 1388 was fermenting around 24 and it is nice already re esters imo).


----------



## drtomc (18/5/11)

I've been very happy with the reviews from friends of the following tripel:

5.5kg wey pils
0.5kg wey wheat malt
1.0kg black glutinous rice
0.5kg quick oats
0.5kg rye (flour)
0.75kg sugar (during ferment)

40g Styrian Goldings (5.0%) @ 90min
40g Styrian Goldings (5.0%) @ 20min

Wyeast 3787

Unmalted grain boiled to mush, then when temp dropped to 70C, added 500g of the pils malt and wrapped up to mash for about 2 hours.

BIAB mash with a 30min rest at 55C, followed by 90min at 64C, then mashout at 78C.

OG 1.078, FG 1.007.

Will be doing this again soon.

T.


----------



## neonmeate (18/5/11)

ooh that looks interesting



drtomc said:


> I've been very happy with the reviews from friends of the following tripel:
> 
> 5.5kg wey pils
> 0.5kg wey wheat malt
> ...


----------



## black_labb (23/8/12)

Been considering brewing another tripel. I've brewed them twice and never got a really enjoyable one. The first was just too phenolic which I attribute to bad yeast health (recultured chimay yeast, I think I've learned a fair bit since then). 

My second one doesn't have enough malt flavour and the yeast flavour isn't quite right. The yeast was 3463 forbidden fruit which is basically a wit yeast. It works well in a dubbel or dark strong where you get the fruityness from the malt but in a tripel you need to really get the full spectrum of flavours from the yeast as it doesn't come from anywhere else. I'm not sure what to attribute the lack of malt character to. I'm thinking I'll try some imported pilsener malt as I find local pils/pale ale malts can be less flavoursome than I would hope. 

I've got some 3787 (westmalle yeast) on the go at the moment and I'm thinking about doing another tripel. It's not my favorite belgian style, but I want to nail a good one. The 3787 should be great for the yeast and I'll have a nice healthy yeast cake on the bottom of the belgian pale (1047 og) so I might as well do it now.



I'm looking for some advice on brewing a good tripel. My main issue is getting a good malt flavour out of the beer, something I've struggled with when it comes to my previous attempts irrespective of other issues. My system is going to limit me to an og of roughly 1065-1070 from the malt which should be fine as I'll add a bit of dextrose to get to 8-8.5%. 


Currently I'm thinking 
70% weyermann floor malted pilsener 
20% marris otter
8% vienna
2% melanoiden

bittered to 34ibu with noble hops

Does the vienna and melanoiden seem like a bad idea? My reason for going this way is I want to make sure it has a good malt flavour there (I will do a mash that results in a dry beer). Is this too much of a knee jerk reaction?


----------



## raven19 (24/8/12)

Don't have beersmith on my work pc so going from memory here, but iirc, my tripels have comprised 100% base malt (maybe a 1-2% of spec malt for colour).

Mash temp?

I think I aimed for around 64-65.

I went for the mid to upper end of the yeast recommended ferment temp range too, push those belgian yeasties hard!

You could also go a smaller batch to get a higher OG.


----------



## black_labb (25/8/12)

Thanks Raven, I ended up brewing a tripel instead of the dark strong I had planned because I was missing some things for the DS. 

I decided to try and see how a protein rest went on my system and it all went arse over tits. Ended up figuring out that my malt pipe was blocked by the piece of material I had put over the grates. and got that eventually sorted out. In the meantime I adjusted the non flowing mash pipe up to saccrification temp using a kettle. The result was a normal protein rest and a very long time at 61-63*c and then another 25 towards the 68* mark, 20 at 72 and 20 at 77*c. I won't bother writing about the further issues as they're not quite bad enough to be funny but I've learnt alot more today about my new 1v recirculating brewing system than I have in the other 6 successful brews. Fortunately the brew system behaved exactly as it should considering what the erratic operator was throwing at it. 


Below is the recipe, I didn't include the erratic mash schedule with the almost decoction and silly games I played trying to fix the problems I caused fixing other problems I caused. I expect this to turn out one of my best beers and never be able to replicate the madness that went into it. I haven't tested the OG but it should be fairly accurate. 


Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 23.0
Total Grain (kg): 6.300
Total Hops (g): 72.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.065 (P): 15.9
Final Gravity (FG): 1.009 (P): 2.3
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 7.32 %
Colour (SRM): 5.6 (EBC): 11.0
Bitterness (IBU): 32.6 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 76
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
4.500 kg Pilsner (71.43%)
1.300 kg Maris Otter Malt (20.63%)
0.350 kg Vienna (5.56%)
0.150 kg Melanoidin (2.38%)

Hop Bill
----------------
42.0 g Spalt Pellet (5.7% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (1.8 g/L)
15.0 g Spalt Pellet (5.7% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)
15.0 g Styrian Golding Pellet (3.4% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil) (0.7 g/L)

Will be adding some dextrose to it mid ferment, though I'm only aiming for about 8-8.5%. A beer like this is drinkable enough as is if done right, no need to kill ones tastebuds once you really start to enjoy it


----------



## raven19 (26/8/12)

black_labb said:


> Below is the recipe, I didn't include the erratic mash schedule with the almost decoction and silly games I played trying to fix the problems I caused fixing other problems I caused. I expect this to turn out one of my best beers and never be able to replicate the madness that went into it. ...



They often are when things go pear shaped!

Noticing now, I did not even think to scroll up the page, as my last tripel recipe was only a few posts above. Blonde moment here.

I have another tripel fermenting on wlp550 yeast cake atm.


----------



## Adr_0 (29/12/13)

hoohaaman said:


> Don't forget 3-4 weeks of lagering,the colder the better,improves head foam layer and really rounds out the flavours in your golden strongs.
> 
> In my experience 1388 or whitelab alternative is the only way to fly with this beast.I have extensively used both 1214 and 1388 and would never try 1214 to replicate a golden strong,but thats just my personal tatses.
> 
> ...


That's the impression I get too: phenolic yeast fermented cool for a trippel, estery yeast fermented slightly warmer for a golden ale. Gut feel would say a fairly low mash temp for a golden, but I would be hesistant to push mash temp too high for a trippel.

It's been a while, but I had a Chimay Blanc last night. Having gone through a couple of Duvels recently, the difference in mouthfeel is very clear I feel but the esters, phenols and hops are not backed up by the BJCP guidelines or what people tend to say: i.e. golden ale = dry and fruity; trippel = spicy and phenolic with a heavier mouthfeel.

From the Chimay Blanc, the hopping is what would call subtle, the mouthfeel is definitely heavier and while it's not particuarly fruity, I would say it balances towards esters (bubblegum, bread, banana) rather than phenols. This seems to be contrary to what I read.

I guess Chimay Blanc is really a stick in the mud for the style guidelines?


----------

