# Recipe For A Beer Like Hahn Super Dry



## silverbrew

Hi does anyone know what the ingredients of a hahn super dry are????


----------



## bum

EGADS!

Prepare yourself for a trip to the zoo based on forthcoming replies.


----------



## manticle

Not sure about ingredients but according to the website it achieves a great degree of attenuation in order to drop out residual sugars leaving it dry and supposedly 'low carb'

Therefore you might want to try a high attenuating lager yeast. I'm guessing pale malts. The Hahn premium apparently uses hersbrucker hops but I don't know what the super dry uses.

While it's not a beer I'm fond of, ignore any comments you may get suggesting you shouldn't try. It's your beer. Make whatever you want.

You could always try emailing them. Some beer companies are supportive of homebrewers


----------



## Sammus

piss in a bottle, then water it down a bit.


----------



## chappo1970

Ok for starters your gunna need 6 cats with full bladders. Might want to make sure that at least one of them is a Tom Cat for that authentic Hahn Twang and dry finish. :icon_drool2: 

Or as per Sammus's recipe :icon_cheers: 



Sammus said:


> p1ss in a bottle, then water it down a bit.



Seriously what bred of brewer are you? K&K, K&B, Extract and or AG? Depending on your ability you might want to stick more main stream for the moment.

Cheers

Chappo


----------



## Bribie G

Actually although they come from the same brewery, Hahn Super Dry is a slight cut above Tooheys extra dry but not by much. I find that a good approximation is to use a very bland kit such as Morgans Canadian Light. Then take a fairly neutral malt like BB Pilsner and do a mini mash of 2 kilos at 68 degrees to get some body. Boil for an hour with a 2 plugs of Hallertau Mittelfruh. Use 500g of either dex, or white sugar that you have inverted with some citric acid. I sort of get a sneaky feeling that half a pack of BE2 might work instead if you want to go a bit fuller bodied.

Ferment at a cool temp, around 18, with the Morgans kit yeast. It should have 514 printed on the gold packet. This is a very high attenuating yeast - Mauri 514 - I put an Old in a comp last week and it was judged a bit too attenuated. Bugger because I was looking for dry and got dryyyyyyyy so that's what you are after. If it says 'lager yeast' on the packet don't worry, it's also a fast and furious yeast, also from Mauri and gives a reasonably clean flavour. However I find that HSD and TED don't have a particularly clean flavour compared to Euro Lagers so I wouldn't bother going to the expense of buying a liquid yeast, just use the kit.

Two days before bottling make a hop tea with another plug of Hallertau and strain into brew. This will turn out grassy at first but will mellow out after about a fortnight in the bottle. Use a heap of Polyclar so you can drink it crystal clear and nearly freezing like the serve the drys at the bar.

I'll take a bottle to the case swap and torment Chappo with it and he can do a critique as well :icon_cheers:


----------



## geoffi

Isn't the trick to these beers to use an enzyme to gobble up all the residual sugars?


----------



## PostModern

Geoffi said:


> Isn't the trick to these beers to use an enzyme to gobble up all the residual sugars?



I think so. Ideally the enzyme is put in the mash, which is why kit methods (adding dry enzyme to the fermenter) seldom make a palatable beer.


----------



## petesbrew

Not sure where you are located, but the Country brewer shops are doing Low Carb kits now.
You could give them a try?


----------



## kirem

If you are an AG'er

Pilsner or another very pale malt mash at 60-65degC for 30-60mins then 72-75degC for 30-60mins to dry the beer right out. If this doesn't dry it out enough for your taste then use an enzyme additive.

aim for an IBU of about 10-15 with a smooth bittering hop like Galena, horizon or Magnum

small aroma hop addition using a noble german variety - Hallertau, Herbrucker, 

swiss lager yeast

Use section 1 from the BJCP guide for some more pointers.

I am planning on making some stella type beers. Some of my friends drink this style and I feel terrible paying money for them to drink it when I know I could easily make it.


----------



## Sammus

kirem said:


> Some of my friends drink this style and I feel terrible paying money for them to drink it when I know I could easily make it.



Why are you paying money for them to drink it when you don't make it? I mean sure, I let my buddies drink my homebrew, but I don't go out and buy them whatever they want if they don't like what I make...


----------



## kirem

Sammus said:


> Why are you paying money for them to drink it when you don't make it? I mean sure, I let my buddies drink my homebrew, but I don't go out and buy them whatever they want if they don't like what I make...



because I want to. If I go to a bbq and they are providing a feed and I know they would enjoy a stella or corona then it would be a bit rude to turn up with my bottles of brew and basically say 'drink this or nothing'.

In my opinion, there is no shame in enjoying a beer no matter what it is. If they like stella and corona or cooper's or VB then that is their choice and if I can help them by making some for them then I am only too glad to do it. I don't get hung up on all that 'this beer is better' rubbish.

For me it is more about having a good time, good food and good conversation, rather than forcing some beer that I think is great down their throat.

It is the same for wine and spirits.


----------



## chappo1970

Sammus said:


> Why are you paying money for them to drink it when you don't make it? I mean sure, I let my buddies drink my homebrew, but I don't go out and buy them whatever they want if they don't like what I make...



It's called being a good host to your guests Sammus.  

May mates will buy me Craft or imported beer when I go to theirs for a BBQ etc even though they know I will bring and drink my own HB. Some of mates will drink my HB others would rather chew on raw tripe so I usually have a XXXX gold or alike to cater for them. I don't mind as it's a swings and round abouts affair. 

Cheers

Chappo

Edit: 100% agree kirem! No one ever started a war over good manners.


----------



## petesbrew

Chappo said:


> It's called being a good host to your guests Sammus.
> 
> May mates will buy me Craft or imported beer when I go to theirs for a BBQ etc even though they know I will bring and drink my own HB. Some of mates will drink my HB others would rather chew on raw tripe so I usually have a XXXX gold or alike to cater for them. I don't mind as it's a swings and round abouts affair.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Chappo
> 
> Edit: 100% agree kirem! No one ever started a war over good manners.



+1 at our parties, as insisted by SWMBO. "Not everyone wants to drink your HB!"
Fair enough, however I do look for those half decent euroswills that go for $40/case.

Lets face it. Not all gets drunk, and we don't wanna be left with VB now don't we?


----------



## cozmocracker

> Lets face it. Not all gets drunk, and we don't wanna be left with VB now don't we?



i hosted a bbq a couple of months back, bought 4 cases of carlton draught because thats what everyone drinks, lets just say the next day my kegs were dry and i still have a fridge full of carlton draught, theres also crownies and hahn super dry that people have brought over and not drunk, i guess i must be doing something right!


----------



## drsmurto

cozmocracker said:


> i hosted a bbq a couple of months back, bought 4 cases of carlton draught because thats what everyone drinks, lets just say the next day my kegs were dry and i still have a fridge full of carlton draught, theres also crownies and hahn super dry that people have brought over and not drunk, i guess i must be doing something right!



Had mates leave these beers in my fridge too.......

I use them in snail traps in the veg patch!


----------



## manticle

kirem said:


> In my opinion, there is no shame in enjoying a beer no matter what it is. If they like stella and corona or cooper's or VB then that is their choice and if I can help them by making some for them then I am only too glad to do it. I don't get hung up on all that 'this beer is better' rubbish.
> 
> For me it is more about having a good time, good food and good conversation, rather than forcing some beer that I think is great down their throat.
> 
> It is the same for wine and spirits.




Well put. My tastes are my own but I don't expect everyone to share them. I will get cranky if someone loudly sings the praises of Crown as Premium beer though.

Cranky.


----------



## Bribie G

BribieG said:


> Actually although they come from the same brewery, Hahn Super Dry is a slight cut above Tooheys extra dry but not by much. I find that a good approximation is to use a very bland kit such as Morgans Canadian Light. Then take a fairly neutral malt like BB Pilsner and do a mini mash of 2 kilos at 68 degrees to get some body. Boil for an hour with a 2 plugs of Hallertau Mittelfruh. Use 500g of either dex, or white sugar that you have inverted with some citric acid. I sort of get a sneaky feeling that half a pack of BE2 might work instead if you want to go a bit fuller bodied.
> 
> Ferment at a cool temp, around 18, with the Morgans kit yeast. It should have 514 printed on the gold packet. This is a very high attenuating yeast - Mauri 514 - I put an Old in a comp last week and it was judged a bit too attenuated. Bugger because I was looking for dry and got dryyyyyyyy so that's what you are after. If it says 'lager yeast' on the packet don't worry, it's also a fast and furious yeast, also from Mauri and gives a reasonably clean flavour. However I find that HSD and TED don't have a particularly clean flavour compared to Euro Lagers so I wouldn't bother going to the expense of buying a liquid yeast, just use the kit.
> 
> Two days before bottling make a hop tea with another plug of Hallertau and strain into brew. This will turn out grassy at first but will mellow out after about a fortnight in the bottle. Use a heap of Polyclar so you can drink it crystal clear and nearly freezing like the serve the drys at the bar.
> 
> *I'll take a bottle to the case swap and torment Chappo with it *and he can do a critique as well :icon_cheers:




Bumping the thread, I'm cleaning up my collection as my kegerator is arriving on Sunday and I've been reorganising the brewery. I came across some bottles of the above brew and they are surprisingly drinkable after three months :icon_cheers: . Chappo will be here as well so I am going to carry out my threat, saving an ice cold bottle just for you old son :icon_drunk:


----------



## mr_tyreman

All my mates are super dry fiends....so if you come up with a AG version, i will definately give it a go


----------



## paulwolf350

mr_tyreman said:


> All my mates are super dry fiends....so if you come up with a AG version, i will definately give it a go




I am working on an all grain version, its not perfect yet, but it is pretty close

Paul


----------



## Kodos

I went to a lecture from Chuck Hahn a few months back on "the Science of Brewing" for national Science week. The lecture was low on science but generous in samples :icon_cheers: 

The first sample was Hahn Superdry, and Chuck said it used Munich malt (to leave a little extra flavour) and Saaz hops. He seemed hesitant to give away exactly how they went about it, but hinted it was a combination of tweaking specific mash temps and possibly some extra enzymes to break down the starches as much as possible.

It has a lower FG than water! (I believe this is possible because alcohol has a very low gravity).

At one point someone in the lecture asked the point in brewing low-carb beers and he couldn't answer! (marketing methinks!).

Good luck finding a suitable recipe.


----------



## DJR

I was told by Mr Hahn they just used a 3 hour mash regime, i guess it probably means a step mash although i have heard of one megabrewery doing a 3 hour mash at 63-65C or so to make a very pale, highly attenuated beer (see http://www.byo.com/component/resource/arti...acts-mr-wizard). I asked about enzymes, he said no, but that may have changed since it was launched perhaps.

I'd be going 95% Aussie Pils and 5% Aussie Light munich, 64C mash for 3 hours with 10% of the dry grist removed from the initial strike and added back at 1h and 2h for extra enzyme activity, raise temps to 72C for Beta-amylase to finish off for a bit at the end, POR/Millenium/Galaxy/Topaz for bittering and Hersbrucker late hopping (probably only about 10-15g at 20m or so), fermented slightly warmish (13C) with a clean lager yeast like WLP830, WLP833 or WY2042. Lager on the warmish side (4-8C) and use Polyclar/Gelatin/filtering to finish it off. It'd be fermented and lagered under pressure and high gravity at Tooheys in multi storey cylindroconicals so the yeast side of things is always going to taste different at a non-pressurized 23L HB batch size.

It probably also contains a fair whack of cane sugar to get the attenuation down, easily 30% as that is the standard. Nowhere i've seen suggests it is all malt.


----------



## marty iselin

bum said:


> EGADS!
> 
> Prepare yourself for a trip to the zoo based on forthcoming replies.


----------



## Kingy

Old thread but has anyone got a recipe close to Hahn super dry.


----------



## Florian

There are a few good suggestions right in this thread if you get stuck. I reckon if you give them a go you'll get fairly close to what you want, unless you expect to produce an exact clone. 

Others might have more recent tried and tested recipes though.


----------



## seehuusen

grave-dig number 2 

I've got a mate who is coming over to Oz in October from the UK. While I love hop-bombs, he loves this beer, and I'd like to oblige 
_(don't start with the he should learn to drink craft beer, I'm happy to keep all the hops to myself  )_

Did any of you actually figure out what hop is used in this beer?

I'll be doing an AG version of this, current grain bill simply consists of Aussie Pilsner, Munich Malt and some Cara-pils for head retention.
I'll also be using 15% sugar to not add too much flavour to it.

Above I read that Saaz and Hallertau are the biggest contenders for hop varieties, although I'm sure POR wouldn't be bad in it either...

Thoughts on the best hop variety to use for it would be greatly appreciated 

Cheers fellow brewers,
Martin


----------



## labels

seehuusen said:


> grave-dig number 2
> 
> I've got a mate who is coming over to Oz in October from the UK. While I love hop-bombs, he loves this beer, and I'd like to oblige
> _(don't start with the he should learn to drink craft beer, I'm happy to keep all the hops to myself  )_
> 
> Did any of you actually figure out what hop is used in this beer?
> 
> I'll be doing an AG version of this, current grain bill simply consists of Aussie Pilsner, Munich Malt and some Cara-pils for head retention.
> I'll also be using 15% sugar to not add too much flavour to it.
> 
> Above I read that Saaz and Hallertau are the biggest contenders for hop varieties, although I'm sure POR wouldn't be bad in it either...
> 
> Thoughts on the best hop variety to use for it would be greatly appreciated
> 
> Cheers fellow brewers,
> Martin


I've got a fair stack of information here on AHB about brewing super clean lagers but I'll leave that up to you to research. I personally wouldn't use Joe White or BB pils malts. I would use Wey pils, it is much cleaner for lagers. You have to take into consideration that Lion Nathan are most likely using barley/malt varieties for these beers that are grown and malted exclusively for them. BB Galaxy would have been ideal for this style but, is sadly no longer available. Galaxy was both a barley variety and a malt.

Best hop I reckon is Hallertau Mittelfreu. Wyeast 2042 Danish is the best yeast IMHO, very clean but leaves a trademark impression that is very much liked. It is also very low flocculating so it lagers the beer very fast but drops brilliantly clear if held just below zero. All I can say is good luck, certainly very achievable if you take care.


----------



## seehuusen

Thanks for the feedback mate, I will try to locate some of that material and read up it. You wouldn't happen to have a link to some of this info, would you?

I may end up doing a comparison of the suggested grain supplier vs Aussie ones.
It's an experiment I've wanted to do for some time.

The attenuation I want, I should be able to reach using multiple mash step temps, airation and pitching plenty of healthy yeast. The sugar addition should keep the flavour lower, assist with abv and keep the dryness. 
I saw you can get enzymes to assist with attenuation as well, are these any good?

As for the danish yeast, i grew up there and in my humble opinion, it isn't close to any Aussie lagers in terms of esters. The final product is substantially different, but thanks for the tip.
For the yeast I'm thinking saflager, which I've used before for a pretty close clone of Carlton mid.

For my first batch, Hallertau it is then  thanks again


----------



## dicko

If and when I make a similar beer I use Por and Hallateur Hersbruker.

I find the comment of it having a lower FG than water very interesting.
Next time my son leaves a stubby of it at my place ( he drinks that crap at times ) I will knock the lid off and check the gravity and report back on here.

I have tried Wy 2042, Wy 2001, Dry S189, S23, and 34/70 all with close results. IMO the 34/70 and the Wy 2001 just leaves a slighter sweetness in the beer which is not the same as the original but nice anyway.

Good luck with your clone


----------



## seehuusen

Appreciate your input Dicko, very good info on the yeast varieties.
Looking back at my recipes, 34/70 was what I used for my Carlton Mid clone, and it did have that slight sweet tone to it. I associate that with TED as well, but not as much with the Super Dry...

Perhaps a split batch is in order, S189 vs 34/70

If you do get around to measuring the FG, please let us know 
_I think Woolies are doing something with BWS and discounting a sixer to $10! Might grab one on the weekend myself to compare with._


----------



## dicko

Seehuusen,

Here is a screenshot of a recipe I did recently which was enjoyed by the Mega Groupies


----------



## dicko

And this was my mash schedule.


----------



## dicko

The above beer finished at 1.006 with the 34/70

You may get it a little lower with the Wy 2042 or the S 189 but you would be splitting hairs over it.
As I said I rather liked the sweetness which seemed to be offered by the 34/70 or the Wy 2001.

Anyway good luck with it.


----------



## Bribie G

What beer does your mate like in the UK. Is he a pom or an expat?
Pommy lagers are quite easy (Carling etc) as are many of their bitters, without going berserk on exotic hops and fancy malts.


----------



## dicko

One of my mates always said it was like "Sex on a Beach" and it appears he was right....Fu&@?n near water!!

Shame Chuck Hahn Shame!!!!!


----------



## waggastew

One thought is to brew a slightly higher gravity/IBU lager (say 6%/30IBU) and then dilute it down post ferment with deoxygenised water. Apart from mimicking the commercial process it has a few advantages:

- More finished beer than you have to ferment

- Dilutes both wanted and unwanted flavours which is very similar to the superdry beers

- Means your apparent attenuation also drops i.e. ferment finishes at 1.012ish but diluted will be closer to 1.004ish

I made a mongrel keg of 1/3 Helles, 1/3 Aussie lager, and topped up with water. Ended up very similar to commercial Superdry beers.

Stew


----------



## seehuusen

Thanks heaps Dicko, really good information :kooi:
Your recipe looks surprisingly close to the recipe I am going to do,

77.5% Jim White Export Pilsner
4.5% Jim White Munich Malt
3.0% Briess Carapils/ Dextrine
15% Sugar (Dextrose)

Hop addition at 60 mins to 15 IBU of POR or Saaz (which I already had in the freezer)... or go the recommended Hallertau. _started tossing up on that choice today after checking what I had lying around_

I couldn't get S189 from lhbs, but have 34/70 in the fridge.

Ah yeah, the lhbs has something called Low Carb Dry Enzyme, which I was thinking I might give a shot... Any thoughts on that?

Thanks WaggaStew for the suggestion of brewing a higher OG wort, I believe reading somewhere that Bribie G did (does?) something like that too.
I might give that a shot, for that added dryness. The picture Dicko posted suggests quite a low FG...

Bribie G, my mate is normally drinking Heineken back in the UK, but really likes the Aussie megas... In fact he tried to get a carton of Super Dry in London, and when they said it was 55 pounds, he politely declined to that LOL

Cheers,
Martin


----------



## Bribie G

Believe it or not when I'm at the local Manning Point Bowls club which, as with most country establishments, is Tooheys, VB, XXXX Gold and the two OldFart Lite beers, Super Dry is the beer I go to as it's quite unobjectionable, full strength and lacks the mouse piss twang of VB.

Instead of cluttering up the page here I can PM you a recipe for a version of Cascade Premium Lager that got me a second in the Nats a couple of years ago. It's quite straightforward and can be done in about three weeks grain to brain.
Turns out typical Aussie Mega although not quite as clean as the commercials (a very difficult task for most home brewing) - you could even infest it with some dry enzyme to get you there.

The recipe is based on some info leaked to an AHB member from Cascade, combined with some hints from an Abbotsford brewer who doesn't post here any more, whose name will remain unspoken.  

edit: Martin, re your first post I'd recommend Cluster. POR is more of a CUB thing and I'm not sure if Hanh Lion actually use that hop, but could be mistaken. CUB have their own hop extract facility that uses POR and I'd guess that Lion don't have access????


----------



## labels

Bribie G said:


> <snip
> Instead of cluttering up the page here I can PM you a recipe for a version of Cascade Premium Lager that got me a second in the Nats a couple of years ago. It's quite straightforward and can be done in about three weeks grain to brain.
> <snip


Wouldn't mind if you sent that recipe my way as well, I'd be quite interested.

I have, by accident, made an almost exact copy of Carlton Draught. Certainly not a beer I like much at all but I was chuffed at making a reasonably good copy.


----------



## Bribie G

Ok, here 'tis.

The trick is to do a two hour mash at 62 degrees to dry out the beer, raise fairly gradually to mashout to take the beer through the alpha amylase zone, then ferment at a certain temperature range, then lager for ten whole entire days. I've posted this a couple of times in other threads.

For a more Hahn Dry experience I'd sub the POR with Cluster, drop the IBU to around 18 and even use the dreaded dry enzyme. If kegging an even better embellishment would be to filter.

On that point we rarely hear about filtering on the forum any more, maybe not done too much. A good gelatine fine in the keg would probably polish the beer up.


*Aussie Lager*
Australian Premium Lager

*Recipe Specs*
----------------
Batch Size (L): 23.0
Total Grain (kg): 4.600
Total Hops (g): 45.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.048 (°P): 11.9
Final Gravity (FG): 1.009 (°P): 2.3
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 5.04 %
Colour (SRM): 3.1 (EBC): 6.1
Bitterness (IBU): 23.3 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

*Grain Bill*
----------------
4.000 kg Pale Malt (86.96%)
0.600 kg Cane Sugar (13.04%)

*Hop Bill*
----------------
20.0 g Pride of Ringwood Pellet (8.3% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.9 g/L)
25.0 g Hersbrucker Pellet (2.8% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (1.1 g/L)

*Misc Bill*
----------------
5.0 g BrewBright @ 0 Minutes (Boil)

Single step Infusion at 62°C for 120 Minutes.
Fermented at 13°C with Wyeast 2042 - Danish Lager

*Notes*
----------------
Hersbrucker plugs x2 or Hersbrucker pellets.

Mash at 62 for two hours then raise to mashout at 78

Ferment at 13 for four days then let it rise to 19 degrees over four days and hold for a couple of days (total ten days)

Lager at -1 for ten days.





Recipe Generated with *BrewMate*


----------



## dicko

Hi Bribie,

I like Hersbrucker in an Aussie premium lager...works well with the dreaded POR. 

Is the recipe you posted No Chill ??

The reason I ask is that I am currently playing with No Chill to save some time on brew day. For these Aussie beers at this stage.

My hop additions were a lot higher (Beersmith not Brewmate) but I am open to any suggestion if you would like to contribute with your thoughts.

Cheers


----------



## Bribie G

No chill.
However I've just done a lager along the same lines and have cube hopped with the Hersbrucker.

Cascade Premium was Hersbrucker until a couple of years ago but they have gone Australian *Summer *hops according to their site.


----------



## thebigwilk

Another yeast to consider is wyeast 2124 fermented at 19c from start to finish done in four days filtered and kegged on the fifth day, it may sound

strange but entered inthe vicbrew comps under Aus lager scored a 6th out of about 20 beers 108 points !

CHEERS!


----------



## waggastew

WLP833 bock yeast rocks lagers, super clean at 12degC, low diacetyl and acetaldehyde


----------



## dicko

Thanks Bribie,
I can fully understand why the commercial guys dont use Hersbrucker, tha last lot I got was under 2% from memory.

Summer eh! Does that have a German hop type profile?

Chiller, an original member on here gave me a recipe using Saphir Fwh and por and I brewed it and it came out really good as well.

I dont think anyone but Chucky wants to brew a beer with an Fg of water, so all input on this topic is great.
I do agree that Superdry is not the worst Aussie lager around, but one or two middies will pull me up due to a massive lack of flavour.
Unfortunately if I am in most local pubs then I am subject to West End Draught. Now that is the most metallic glass of aerated owls piss that I have ever tasted.
With nothing really to boast about my closest local has just put Peroni on tap...a better choice than all the other lager taps 

Cheers


----------



## seehuusen

Just siphoned my attempt of this beer into secondary.
I've had it in the fermenter for a couple of weeks now, though the main fermentation stopped about a week ago.
Since then I've had it sitting at 2C to cold crash it, and it will sit for another few days with the gelatine to really clear it up, then I'll bottle.

The FG was 0.999-1.001, dependent on how I read my hydrometer and calibrated for temp...
I've got to say, that this beer already tastes pretty bloody nice out of the sample, no odd flavours or anything, clean, crisp and refreshing.

As this was the test batch, I think I need to up the grain bill slightly and lower the addition of sugar to compensate. This is just to bring a touch more body to the beer.
Perhaps using sugar with some level of flavour might be the go too, thoughts?
I'm not entirely sure if I had enough hops in there, or it is just my IPA tastebuds craving something extra 

Cheers,
Martin


----------



## Bribie G

Since my last post I've got a dead simple 4.8% lager in primary, with BB ale, white sugaz and POR pellets to about 24 IBU, and a mix of a couple of dried lager yeasts.
I've gone the Bacchus route and fermented at 18/19 just in the garage and will lager for ten days at around freezing.

If it turns out ok maybe we should do a bottle swap.


----------



## seehuusen

sure, that'd be great Bribie  I'd be interested to see how yours turn out.
I fermented mine at 14C and then increased to 17C towards the end. After it had settled at 1.003 for a couple of days I crash chilled it to 2C.
I'm not sure how long I should be lagering it for, I bottle condition, so I assume I need to leave the bottles at 18C for the first week and then put them in the fridge at 4C for a little while?
Any suggestions on how to go about it best would be great!

Cheers,
Martin


----------



## Bribie G

Bottling conditioning lagers I usually leave sub 20 for about a fortnight then fridge them if I am going to keep them for comps etc. And I'm coming to the conclusion that they should be in glass, not PET. The QLD guy who regularly won places in the Nats with lagers (now retired) would brew in February then from April on, he had fridges under his house packed with lagers.


----------



## TheWiggman

How did you manage to get the FG around 1.000 Martin? Drying enzyme?


----------



## seehuusen

TheWiggman said:


> How did you manage to get the FG around 1.000 Martin? Drying enzyme?


Correct I added one sachet of Copper Tun Low Carb Dry Enzyme.
I also mashed low, between 63.5C and 64.5C and finally used half a KG of corn sugar to retain the alcohol content but not add anything else in terms of flavour.

I think if I either mash a bit higher next time, or add less sugar and more grain, it might turn into a much more full-bodied beer.
Alternatively, I think I might give the higher SG brewing a go and dilute to the desired SG prior to pitching yeast.
From the sample it tastes fairly similar, though I'm not sure Cluster was exactly the right choice of hops, perhaps I need to add more in several steps.
At least this won't take long to re-brew, lots of mates around who like "_normal_" beer


----------



## seehuusen

I had to make an early order from NHB as I'm heading up that way for a beerswap tomorrow.
So I decided to get the grain for a second batch, which I've changed slightly to suit my taste buds better, solely based on the gravity sample I took (so perhaps a bit premature, but I'll have something to compare with)

Grain bill/ Fermentables:

Briess Carapils Dextrine Malt 0.2kg (4.8%)
Joe White Munich Malt 0.2kg (4.8%)
Joe White Export Pilsner 3.5kg (84.3%)
Corn Sugar 0.25kg (6%)
Hops

20g Cluster @ 60min
10g Cluster @ 20min
10g Cluster @ Flameout



The reason for changing the hop schedule was that I felt I wanted a bit more flavour than just bitterness achieved from a single 60 min hop boil.
I also lowered the Corn Sugar from 500g to 250g and increased the grains accordingly (still same ABV)
I'll be adding the dry-enzyme and mashing low again. The dryness feels spot on, so I don't want to change that in the second version.

Will lager as you mentioned Bribie, though I think I might not be able to wait 2 months to pop the first one, curiosity will get the better of me  haha

Cheers,
Martin


----------



## thebigwilk

I have used cluster in my Aussie lagers and im not sure about the late additions in your recipe the flavours might be a bit over the top for such a dry beer cluster has a pretty strong flavour only my opinion but I reckon the euro noble hops might be a better choice for the late additions. Cheers


----------



## thebigwilk

The Flavour
Victoria Bitter is fermented between 18-18.5°C, which is very warm for lager. Put simply, the higher the temperature, the quicker the fermentation as the yeast multiply and devour the sugars, turning them into alcohol. Why do this? A warm, fast ferment results in a beer with more flavour. If you want bland, flavourless beer, you better look elsewhere.
You’ll find Victoria Bitter lives up to its name too. All of our hops are bittering hops, not flavour or aroma hops so when we say the big cold beer, we mean BIG.

https://www.victoriabitter.com.au/the-brew/


Found on the website above. But interesting to read the fermenting temps I found using wyeast 2124 at these temps gave a strong Aussie lager flavour tang.


----------



## TheWiggman

Yeah but VB is fermented under pressure. This changes the game completely for yeast. Pressurised fermentation allows for higher temps to not affect flavour. If the yeast used in VB (Foster's B strain?) were used on a home brew scale at the same temps you would get a very different beer. A worse one I'd wager. Unless you did it with a WilliamsWarn, but forget I ever said that.


----------



## seehuusen

Hey fellow brewers,

I'm getting ready to brew up the second attempt of this, need it ready to drink by August when the FIL/ MIL comes to visit.

Taste notes from the previous batch is a distinct lack of body by comparison to the original.
I'd even go as far and boldly state, those that say "mash low and add 15%+ of sugar", have probably never brewed up an Aussie mega-swill clone themselves!
Perhaps that is just me, as all of my mates liked the clone, but I want a bit more...

Thanks for the comment TheBigWilk, I've taken note of it, and changed my recipe slightly.

I also read another thread, where it was suggested that the mash was done at a slightly higher temperature to provide some body and the addition of sugar was there purely to up the fermentability... With what little I know, seems like a fairly logical approach. _Use less grain for fermentability, but extract all the flavour you can, while adding sugar for alcohol percentage..._

I'd be keen to hear what people think of the higher temp idea, I've set mine at a modest 66c, should I go higher?
I obviously don't want to create something that isn't dry 

So, without crapping on, below is the second approach to the beer.

Cheers,
Martin

*Bosco Super Dry*
_Australian lager (2 1)_

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 28.00 l
Mash: 66.0C for 60 min 
Boil Time: 60 min
Brewer: Martin
Efficiency: 72.00 %

Ingredients
3.50kg (79.5%) Export Pilsner (1.7 SRM)
0.20kg (4.5%) Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)
0.20kg (4.5%) Munich Malt (9.0 SRM)
0.50kg (11.4%) Corn Sugar (Dextrose)
20g Cluster (13.8 IBUs ) Boil 60 min
20g Cluster (8.4 IBUs) Boil 20 min

Fermented with Saflager Lager W-34/70 and 3.00 g Low Carb Dry Enzyme
Fermentation temp: 15C until 2/3 of gravity has been consumed, then increase to 18C.
Lager in fridge at ~5C for 3+ weeks. (I bottle condition all my beer, I have no kegs)


----------



## SJW

About 95% cane sugar and a ton of dry enzyme will get you close.


----------



## seehuusen

SJW said:


> About 95% cane sugar and a ton of dry enzyme will get you close.


Although I see the humor, I don't get why the joke has to be mentioned on every mega-swill thread, every time... 
Just because you and I might prefer ales or other types of flavour bombs, doesn't mean that everyone else has to...

I might just re-iterate: "_those that say "mash low and add 15%+ of sugar", have probably never brewed up an Aussie mega-swill clone themselves_"...
In fact, brewing up one of these beers as a close clone, is probably more challenging than adding a ton of hops and going yum


----------



## waggastew

seehuusen said:


> Taste notes from the previous batch is a distinct lack of body by comparison to the original.
> I'd even go as far and boldly state, those that say "mash low and add 15%+ of sugar", have probably never brewed up an Aussie mega-swill clone themselves!
> 
> Perhaps that is just me,


It's just you............if you go and disregard every single piece of advice on this forum re: recipes for brewing a decent Aussie lager and NOT using dry enzyme, get a shit beer as a result, and then question the credibility of your sources I am unsure why you bother posting on here?

This very simple recipe got Silver at the Nat's last year (credit to Bribie G for the hard work on the recipe who also got 2nd at the Nats the year before). 12.5% sugar, mashed at 62degC for 2hrs

3.5kg Pale Malt 500g Cane Sugar 14g Magnum, 60min (24IBU), WLP833 at 12degC.

Just use your original recipe but piss off the dry enzyme. Oh and try not to shoot off your mouth when you don't know what the f*%k you are talking about.


----------



## mje1980

You don't need enzyme, or even sugar to get a low finishing gravity crisp lager. Long low mash,without sugar, should comfortably finish under 1.010. Keep the original gravity on the low side and you're almost guaranteed to finish under 1.010. Big starter, fermented cold ( warm fermented lager eeeew ).


----------



## labels

You do NOT have to use any sugar to make a dry, crisp lager. In fact it can thin the beer out and leave it with a thin body and mouthfeel. I would suggest if you intend to sugar, add some carapils to put some body back in otherwise, leave the sugar out - best option.

I find Australian malt that is available to us will produce a lager with TEDS like taste. If you want Pure Blonde taste profile go with Weyermann pils. Remember that most of the majors like Hahns will no doubt be using a proprietary malt blend of some sort that is not available to us. Don't answer those who knock your attempt at this. It is so easy to make a hoppy ale and hide all the faults in bitterness and hop flavour. You've got to be 100% accurate to make a dry lager. Nowhere to hide anything that shouldn't be there and a lot to think about to get it right. You will be looking for clarity, right colour, correct carbonation, good head and head retention (hard with a dry lager) balanced malt and bitterness and just the right amount of body and mouthfeel. It should be very crisp and refreshing and completely free of faults.


----------



## mje1980

You know it's right when it's physically impossible to just have one glass.


----------



## seehuusen

g'day guys, thanks for the input.

Based on the response, I'll keep my lowered sugar content at 11.4%. I will change the mash temp back to 63C, rather than 66C and increase the time to 2 hours.
As for the mouthfeel/ body, thanks labels, I'll up the cara-pils percentage for the 3rd batch, provided this one turns out thin as well (I've already bought the grains for this batch).
Fingers crossed this has a bit more body to it. I know it's not a lot in a Super Dry, but still a little more than what my first SD recipe had .

WaggaStew, I've certainly not disregarded anyone's suggestions :huh:
This time around, I'm making my own observations, based on the first recipe that I brewed up earlier. I'm not trying to do someone else's recipe, but rather come up with my own.
Dicko's grain bill confirmed my first recipe was on the right track, Bribie contributed his thoughts on the hop variety to use.
Kodos attendance to a brewing seminar with the brewer from Hahn gave me the idea of adding the drying enzyme.

Ironically, you even suggest that I should use a slightly lower sugar content (12.5%), which I've done... 11.4%  I hope that clarifies things for you bud :icon_cheers:


----------



## labels

mje1980 said:


> You know it's right when it's physically impossible to just have one glass.


Very helpful comment


----------

