# Licensing Help In Vic



## jdittko (19/4/11)

Hey, just wondering if anyone out there knows anything about alcohol and brewing licenses in Victoria. 

Recently I supplied beer for a friends wedding as a gift and it was a pretty big hit amongst both the patrons and venue. The venue wants to use my serving equipment and beer for future functions. My question is what do I need to do in order to sell beer that I have brewed?? Also what I would need to do in order to serve it at other functions in unlicienced venues i.e private party's?? 

Any help with this is greatly appreciated.


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## zephon (19/4/11)

jdittko said:


> Hey, just wondering if anyone out there knows anything about alcohol and brewing licenses in Victoria.
> 
> Recently I supplied beer for a friends wedding as a gift and it was a pretty big hit amongst both the patrons and venue. The venue wants to use my serving equipment and beer for future functions. My question is what do I need to do in order to sell beer that I have brewed?? Also what I would need to do in order to serve it at other functions in unlicienced venues i.e private party's??
> 
> Any help with this is greatly appreciated.



You'd better get a lawyer son. You'd better get a real good one.

Seriously.

To start even a small production brewery you'll be dealing with all 3 tiers of government (Federal, State and Local) in areas such as liquor licensing, excise, waste management, manufacturing laws, food safety, environment etc. etc. etc.

At a small scale it's not going to be economical, but don't let that stop you. It hasn't stopped me yet :icon_cheers:.

Not sure who the best people to talk to in Victoria are, here in SA I'd recommend getting in touch with Wallmans Lawyers but I don't think they have any interstate branches. Someone else might be able to help there.


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## fcmcg (19/4/11)

simma said:


> You'd better get a lawyer son. You'd better get a real good one.
> 
> Seriously.
> 
> ...


You also forgot about dealing with the Tax man...
One of the biggest problems faced by craft breweries in Australia , is they pay excise tax on the beer they produce , before they have sold it...
Cheers
Ferg


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## zephon (19/4/11)

fergthebrewer said:


> You also forgot about dealing with the Tax man...
> One of the biggest problems faced by craft breweries in Australia , is they pay excise tax on the beer they produce , before they have sold it...
> Cheers
> Ferg



I did mention excise, you're right though it's such a big issue it's worth mentioning twice .

Good write up on excise in the latest Beer & Brewer magazine.


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## jdittko (19/4/11)

Thanks guys I am aware of all these matters and that such small scale is not usually profitable, however I was discussing this with a brewer that was at the beer expo in Canberra a couple of weeks ago and he was saying that he used to work with some guys in melb running only a 200L brewery and there was some license that made it quite easy. He called it a producers license, but seeing as he had used it in the past I am guess he wasn't referring to the "Producers" license being released in 2012.


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## fcmcg (19/4/11)

simma said:


> I did mention excise, you're right though it's such a big issue it's worth mentioning twice .
> 
> Good write up on excise in the latest Beer & Brewer magazine.


oh god , so you did...
My apologies...i should have read it a bit better...
Anyway , i think that the OP will get himself into all sorts of trouble if he decides to not worry about the law and do it anyway...IIRC , there was a Nightclub owner in Geelong , not so long ago , who was making Vodka at home and selling it at his venues...i think the fine was nearly $25,000...but he was passing it off as premuim imported stuff lol

Also what I would need to do in order to serve it at other functions in unlicienced venues i.e private party's?? 

There is nothing stopping you serving your beer beer at private partys...that is , ones your also a guest at...
Selling beer to private party's leads us back to the original problems ....
I have been a guest party's where i have had a tip jar...i've been a guest at them , but the cost of supplying beer to other people's party's was getting a bit high , so i put a sign up saying "gold coin donation acepted for a cup" . I was donated $60 on Australia day...Strictly speaking this is probably illegal...but i wasn't actually selling my beer...rather asking for a donation so that i could make another batch...h34r: 
Does this answer your question ?
Cheers
Ferg


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## Thirsty Boy (19/4/11)

The producers lliscence coming out in 2012 (if indeed it does) might be your only ray of light - there is as far as i am aware, and i have checked, no other "easy" solution for brewers. For winemakers yes, brewers no.

Liquour Licence itself probably isn't too hard, they have a number of options and I guess its possible you could shoehorn an ultra small bewery into a couple of their categories.... Its the excise that is your problem, and local govenrment and the food guys.... Its nothing you cant do if you have the stomach for red tape and a decent bulge in your wallet that you want to reduce.

Try hunting down the guys from Cavalier Brewing, they're pretty damn new and i think are on the 100L or so scale. So they'll know all about getting ticks in all the right boxes and which hoops you will need to jump through. They might be willing to help you out by passing on some of their hard earned knowledge.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cavalier-Bre...9170864?sk=wall

TB


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## hoppinmad (19/4/11)

In the end the decision will come down to the department of justice or their equivalent in your state. best you contact them and explain clearly what it is you are planning. I applied for a Renewable Limited Liquor Licence in Victoria and they were very helpful


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## proudscum (19/4/11)

i have been lead to believe that if you produce under 30,000lt a year there may be an excise break because it is looked upon as a small quantity.would not take this as gospel but may help.


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## thedragon (19/4/11)

This thread brings back memories of my favourite topic: illegal back yard pubs

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...hl=backyard+pub

:icon_chickcheers:


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## yum beer (19/4/11)

the producers license is a requirement that only allows you to brew beer.

according to the tax office home brew is exempt from excise as it is not made on commercial equipment. Excise is charged if you make beer on commercial equipment for commercial purposes. If you are using your normal gear than it is not clear where you stand...I would suggest talking to the tax office first, because they will cause you the biggest headache in the long run.

Small producers still pay excise, they just get a rebate to make it more viable for them to compete.


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## Thirsty Boy (19/4/11)

There is no Producers licence yet - it is a proposal to replace the current vignerons licence with something similar that would also apply to small brewers to allow them to sell their beer in the same sort of way that very small wineries are allowed to sell their wine.

If you want to run a brewery that is allowed to sell beer to a bottleshop or pub or other licenced entity, you require a pre-retail licence, just like any other brewery big or small.

Its possible that they might grant you a limited licence, either renewable or temporary to be allowed to sell your beer at things like farmers markets and festivals without having to get another sort of licence too, and its just barley possible that you might be able to talk them into letting you run a very small brewery under a version of a limited licence too... But it would be a matter of personally convincing someone that the manner in which you planned to sell your product was truly "limited" within the intent of the limit licence scheme. You might manage, you might bomb out.

In any of those cases, you will, absolutely, have to get an excise permit. Sure, with your small volume you will qualify for the partial rebate of excise - but that doesn't mean you dont have to do it like everyone else, it just means you get some of it back afterwards.

Talk to some people who have been through the process - and then get a lawyer, or at least an advocate - you're pretty much going to need one unless you really really do have a thing for wading through red tape.


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## WSC (20/4/11)

My 2 cents - talk to other brewers that have done it like Kooinda.

In all my experiences most people will give you all the information you need if you buy them a beer. After all the more brewers/breweries the better.


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## fawnroux (20/4/11)

One thing that hasn't really been touched on is the zoning issues with your local councils. I'm guessing you brew at home, yeah? 

It's just a guess but where you live is probably zoned residential. As operating a brewery would fall under manufacturing, then I doubt the council will permit it (no matter how small). People do operate businesses from home (including food based ones), but councils are a nightmare to deal with in commercial kitchens and manufacturing, let alone a home based setup. You'd have to install drains, cold rooms, hand basins etc and so on. Councils love being a pain in the arse. They live for it! <_< 

Although I will say this. If your beer was a hit, and the function place wants to use it, then it might be worth your while setting something up in an industrial area. Theres a little brewery in Sydney that brews small scale. Can't think of the name. Something to do with an Elf maybe. I'll find out and post it again.



jdittko said:


> Also what I would need to do in order to serve it at other functions in unlicienced venues i.e private party's??



If it's a private party for friends etc, then it's a private party and you can do whatever. No ones going to bother (my opinion) if you are brewing for friends. Though, as far as the law is concerned, home brew is for personal consumption in your own home. Technically you can't supply anyone with it. The governments isn't chasing people bringing a keg to a mates place, or an AHB case swap. However, if you are looking to supply 'private functions' constantly for profit, then you're back to square one. Plus, you need a liquor license to sell and dispense alcohol, so.....

Edit: It's called Happy Goblin Brewery. I love the setup there. It's a big home brew rig pretty much  Now that might be someone worth having a chat to.


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## chadjaja (21/4/11)

A Corona mill in their commercial brewery! WOW that would make life a little harder LOL

I'm already beginning to get over my marga mill :lol:


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